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How many people think Joe Rogen is that funny movie star and how many people think Seth Rogan is that independent-thinking podcast host and UFC commentator?’

I mean sure, one has a beard, glasses, and a cap and the other, at the moment, doesn’t, but they’re both high all the time.

 
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  1. Batman says:

    Joe is relevant right now. Seth isn’t. So, probably very little confusion.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    , @JimDandy
    , @anon
  2. But neither has giant ferns …

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Jon
  3. The interesting question here might not be so much about possible confusions.

    It might be rather this one: How cold it be that a professional ex-Kickboxer and comedian, who self- caracterises as “I don’t know shit, man” could have risen to the status he quite obviously has now in the US public sphere as one of the main – and rather trustworthy – dissenters?

    (This miracle might have to do with the parallel between – öhh – Socrates and – – – the podcast-talker Joe Rogan. Podcasts like Joe Rogan’s Experience seem to be the new market-places (the Athenian market place was, where Socrates loved to – bother his contemporaries with his witty and – dissenting …. – remarks.))

  4. Twinkie says:
    @Dieter Kief

    a professional ex-Kickboxer

    I don’t think Joe Rogan was a professional kickboxer (amateur, maybe). He was, however, Mass. state Taekwondo champ and is a 10th Planet BJJ black belt.

    Meanwhile, I don’t get the sense that Seth Rogen knows how to punch himself out of a lunch bag.

  5. I don’t know squat about either one of them, and I’d like to keep it that way.

  6. Danindc says:

    Seth Rogen is a degenerate who hate hate hates huwhite ppl.

    Rogan is a smart dumb guy…or vice versa.

    • Replies: @Nodwink
  7. Brutusale says:

    One is an American Catholic, while the other is a Canadian Jew. I think you can figure out which is which.

    • Agree: Not Raul
    • Replies: @duncsbaby
    , @mc23
  8. “How many people think Joe Rogen is that funny movie star and how many people think Seth Rogan is that independent-thinking podcast host. . .”

    . . .wrote Steve, cleverly mixing up the last names to see if we’d notice.

  9. Mike Tre says:

    Seth Rogan was never funny. With his glasses/ballcap image he comes across as a Michael Moore/Indy director wannabe. Ethnic nepotism is the only reason anyone knows who this bum is.

    I have nothing against Joe Rogan, but I never listened to his show save for a clip here or there. Not enough time in a day and from what little I’ve heard he doesn’t seem to present anything ground breaking. There’s plenty of pundits who are good at identifying the problems (Sailer,) but short on presenting solutions (Sailer,) He was a very good MMA commentator though. His stand up was OK. His funniest bit was when he roasted a fan who kept interrupting his routine.

    • Replies: @Zoos
    , @Harry Baldwin
  10. @Twinkie

    You’re right – he had two fights as an amateur kickboxer.
    He was a Taekwondo-intructor for a year too.

  11. AndrewR says:
    @Batman

    Seth Rogen is virulently anti-white and, unsurprisingly, he isn’t remotely funny to anyone who isn’t baked out of their minds.

  12. Anon[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    I don’t think Joe Rogan was a professional kickboxer (amateur, maybe). He was, however, Mass. state Taekwondo champ and is a 10th Planet BJJ black belt.

    I know of a 9th degree (hon.) Taekwondo black belt:

    Every kid who grew up in the Washington, D.C. area (now called the DMV) in the 1970’s has this commercial ingrained in his or her brain:

    • LOL: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @JimDandy
  13. Gamecock says:

    Which one fights hair loss?

  14. Anonymous[364] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    Wonder if Gamma male Vox Day still has his video and/or blog post about how Joe Rogan “can’t fight”…from what I recall, several people challenged Vox to go down to any BJJ gym in Italy (where he lives and opines about what regular Americans should do) and challenge any white belt in his age group/weight. Especially since Vox also claimed to be an “elite athlete” because he plays in some over old guy’s soccer club.

  15. @Dieter Kief

    How cold it be that a professional ex-Kickboxer and comedian, who self- caracterises as “I don’t know shit, man” could have risen to the status he quite obviously has now in the US public sphere as one of the main – and rather trustworthy – dissenters?

    The closest main media has gotten to decent reporting on the virus and the treatment is:

    1. Rogan’s interview of Guptay
    2. McAffee’s interview of Rodgers

    CNN and the New York Times are not even on this planet. They are basically paid promotion outlets from top to bottom.

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
  16. B36 says:

    I see what you did there.

    Rogan’s good but I prefer Joe Pyne.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    , @Reg Cæsar
  17. those 3 men in the Arbery trial. Just horrifying for them. So many things wrong with this country.

  18. In his shows, Rogen allows what appears to be free inquiry into taboo subjects (e.g. trannies competing in women’s sports), he is a fairly interesting interviewer, and allows his guests to speak at length, unlike, say, Charlie Rose. He does have a weird take on the JFK assassination “magic bullet,” though, claiming falsely that the bullet was unmarked, while exhibiting the only photograph in which it appears so, and shutting down at least one guest who argued otherwise. Other than that, he’s pretty entertaining, even to ancient Boomers (I know some, and this is what they tell me).

    OT very much: the recent election was a real bloodbath for the Democrats, including huge losses in Long Island’s Nassau and Suffolk counties. In reaction, the New York City council is poised to allow non-citizens to vote.
    Time for the government to elect a new people.

  19. J.Ross says:

    Is this in response to Seth’s tweets laughing off an LA car burglary as part and parcel of living in a big city, which has the bizarre and potentially iStevey detail that, despite his despair, the person complaining about the crime actually managed to get his stuff back?

    • Replies: @duncsbaby
    , @MEH 0910
  20. Apparently, Steve got high the night before Thanksgiving.

  21. I don’t watch this stuff, and I’ve barely heard of Seth something.

    Just, a Jungian synchronicity …. YT has offered yesterday a short clip on near death experiences with Joe R interviewing some man about this experience. What was refreshing that I’ve finally seen an atheist who remains atheist after NDE & has not converted to anything.

    On the other hand, something remains unsaid. The man said he gained insight into fragility & preciousness of life, which can be obliterated in a moment. Okaaay…. but one cannot live with that mental input all the time present in your mind. You’ll either go mad or kill yourself.

    • Thanks: Moses
  22. Mike Tre says:

    OT – There has been a 5 fold increase in professional soccer players collapsing on the field during game play in 2021:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/former-pro-calls-investigation-after-another-soccer-player-suddenly-collapses

    It’s probably nothing.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  23. pyrrhus says:
    @Twinkie

    Joe Rogan was a world champion in Tai Quan Do and has a spinning back kick that would fell a steer….He’s also a black belt in jiu jitsu….

  24. JimDandy says:
    @Batman

    But when you add Josh Rogin to the mix, things start to get weird.

  25. Acilius says: • Website

    I know Joe Rogan as “the guy who played the handyman on Newsradio.” I miss that show, it was really funny. Not sure who Seth Rogen is.

    • Replies: @Stebbing Heuer
  26. J.Ross says:
    @The Alarmist

    There are many fake celebrities but perhaps none as cardboard as that guy.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  27. Well, one is exhibit A for the argument that being Jewish gives you a massive leg up in Hollywood.

  28. Anonymous[130] • Disclaimer says:

    From the (British) Chairman of the House of Commons Defence Select Committee

    OT: “We’re going to see mass migration on biblical scales…”

    At least they have noticed.

  29. Kronos says:

    I’ve found Seth Rogan‘s material pretty funny. Unfortunately, his form of dirty humor has been effectively outlawed in Hollywood since “The Great Awokening” of 2013. Comedy has been facing multi year drought for close to a decade now. I’m not familiar with Joe Rogen‘s comedy work but that drought has impacted every comedian for the worse.

    Joe Rogen has essentially filled the void from John Stewart’s “The Daily Show.” It’s strange that comedians have filled the role for quality journalists for years now but that’s the case.

    While John Stewart catered to leftist leaning Millennials Rogen targets older Millennial/Zoomers of a rightest persuasion. I don’t know of any rightists my age who watch Fox News, the Bush II NeoCon years killed off a any potential for attracting a younger audience. The only full Fox News interview I’ve ever watched (not a ten second YouTube snippet) was Tucker Carlson interviewing Curtis Yarvin.

  30. anon[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @Batman

    Also, people know Joe Rogan from Fear Factor, which was popular and part of the original reality TV boom of the early 2000s, before Seth Rogen’s career took off.

  31. RobinG says:
    @Kronos

    Thanks for the Curtis Yarvin.

  32. Alfa158 says:

    I tried watch a couple of Seth Rogan productions. I was in awe about was how much dope this guy must have been smoking while writing and producing this stuff. He must have truly enormous lung capacity to have been able to achieve that level of THC intake.

  33. Mr. Anon says:

    How many people think Joe Rogen is that funny movie star……………

    Funny? Is Seth Rogen supposed to be funny? News to me. I’ve never seen him be anything other than an insufferable, unfunny Hollywood-liberal douchebag.

  34. Both men own sensory deprivation float tanks, only Rogan’s is filled with salt water and Rogen’s with shekels.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  35. nebulafox says:

    Rogan might be a dope offender (if he’s still around by the time I’m ready to be invited on, I’d choose different substances from Musk), but he’s getting people on the right track.

    I’ve never heard of the other guy.

  36. I actually get Seth Rogen mixed with Jonah Hill (really, I thought he was in Wolf of Wall Street)

    Joe Rogan uses a fact-checker on his show to call out BS. He should run for President.

    Anyways, 51 years ago today, Mishima wrote this poem,

    散るをいとふ
    世にも人にも
    さきがけて
    散るこそ花と
    吹く小夜嵐

    Chiru o itofu
    Yo ni mo hito ni mo
    Sakigakete
    Chiru ni so hana to
    Fuku sayoarashi

    A small night storm blows
    Saying ‘falling is the essence of a flower’
    Preceding those who hesitate

    • Replies: @JimDandy
  37. I was never a big fan of Joe Rogan’s standup, so it took me a while to get around to actually listen to his podcast. The first one I listened to was because Bill Burr was the guest, and it was great, so I started going thru and listening to other guests that I had interest in (David Lee Roth, Paul Stanley, Jordan Peterson, Bret & Eric Weinstein, various comedians), and then got into other ones with professors, authors, etc, that I probably would have never heard of, let alone listen to them talk for 2+ hours. Joe is actually a pretty good interviewer, and the long form allows people to really explain their message or talk about their subject in depth, that you don’t get on some tv talk show where time is limited.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @joe_mama
  38. @Twinkie

    Rogan did compete for money back when there wasn’t much money to be made in it, which is why he quit and pursued comedy full time

  39. nebulafox says:
    @Dieter Kief

    The legacy media can’t catch up. They are still trying to escape the psychological horizons of the 1990s without understanding how ridiculous it makes them look.

    Good.

    • Agree: Kronos
  40. SafeNow says:

    Happy Thanksgiving to Steve, the Dean and Provost here at Sailer University, and the mixologist here at the Sailer pub. I send Happy Thanksgiving wishes to all of the great commenters. I am thankful today for many blessings, and being able to visit the Sailer blog is one of these!

  41. Russ says:
    @Dieter Kief

    Podcasts like Joe Rogan’s Experience seem to be the new market-places

    Back in the 1970s, there was this urbane white-haired chap named David Susskind, who had an hour-long syndicated TV show on Sunday nights, discussing what have you with various guests. Since Sunday night was early TV signoff night back then, Susskind had the latitude to keep an episode going for extra time (hours, sometimes) if the discussion warranted. Rogan’s 3+hr podcast reminds me of that old show: There’s no “running out the clock” (as there is on every Sunday-morning interview show featuring govt/political figures).

  42. JimDandy says:
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Joe Rogan should stay exactly where he is. He is one of the best influences on mainstream America today. He’s also a self-described lefty and I don’t think he really understands some basic economic concepts. His presidency would be a shitshow, even relative to the current clown. Tucker on the other hand…

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  43. Anonymous[215] • Disclaimer says:

    “Independent-thinking” is a fantastic euphemism.

  44. Russ says:

    Wasn’t Seth Rogen the “actor” in some movie scene wherein, wearing a star-of-David sweater, he vomits at Midnight Mass and then while fleeing tells the Catholics it’s their fault? I’m sure that those running Hollywood thought the sacrilege hilarious.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
  45. Their names pop-up a lot, but before now, to my knowledge, not both in the same article. I would always think, “That name doesn’t sound right.”

  46. Abe says:

    How many people think Joe Rogen is that funny movie star and how many people think Seth Rogan is that independent-thinking podcast host and UFC commentator?’

    Joe Rogan takes horse-dewormer. Seth Rogan is the preferred nutrient of worms (he was one of the celebrities gleefully offering real-time cash-for-smash on Twitter during the Summer of Floyd- i.e. just-in-time bail money for AntiFa looters and arsonists. F-HIM!!)

    Seriously, it’s not your late-90’s/early 00’s infotainment landscape, Sailer, when the AOL/Time Warner merger was the best squid/whale spectacle in town and a Borders Books outlet was the acme of tasteful middle class cultural aspiration (and before anyone sniffs at that, recall that ante-Borders to walk into a building and have any reasonable shot of finding 3 works on Wittgenstein next to one another on the same shelf you’d either have to be living in an A-City metropolis or else have a pass to a decent university library).

    Rogan just signed a \$100 million deal with Spotify. He is effectively cancel proof. Ted Cruz thinks he should run for President (or is that King of Texas? Or did he say that about Elon Musk??). Anyway, it is a brave new media landscape and it is high time we stopped legitimizing corrupt legacy husks like the NEW YORK TIMES by continuing to pick the corn out of the scat that constitutes their meager and every marginally-diminishing reportorial product (some NYT scrub at their TikTok desk went online, found out that the Waukesha SUV killer was an aspiring rapper, and buried it in paragraph 60 of their story; big whoop!). Even Tim Dillon- if Rogan is like the New York Yankees of podcasters, Dillon is maybe the San Diego Padres or even the Red Sox’s Triple-A club- is now big enough to get under the skin of SNL (the same para-comedy outfit that wastes its limited airtime telling you there is no such thing as CRT, and boy do you deserve it!). Just last week Dillon provoked Michael Che into an online beef by pointing out how obviously lame his flagship has become.

    The new media landscape of podcasting and DIY/just-in-time sketch comedy can be confusing and exhausting to keep up with, but however much you may pine for the good old days of waking up, getting some brew, and letting Katie Couric tell you which new Dave Mathews Band CD to buy, resist! It is a wacky, wonderful, wild world of weekly content and represents the greatest liberation of the human mind and spirit since both began being inexorably crushed, conformed, and commodified with the invention of the telegraph. To think of how sick and twisted the old world was- it was considered completely normal to give Steve Jobs a nice chunk of your disposable income, and then spend a nice chunk of your disposable time watching TV news plugs for books telling you how wonderful Steve Jobs is, and then buy and actually read that book on how wonderful Steve Jobs is, which as it turned out was merely the appetizer for that flic (there were two!) telling you how wonderful Steve Jobs is, and then buying a DVD of the movie just so you don’t forget how wonderful Steve Jobs is. Or consider the fact that the heroes of the most-lauded TV show of recent memory (embraced even more by conservatives than liberals) were smooth shills for corporate America, whose great and singular skill was [email protected] a nation of 200 million.

    The new media landscape is stranger than 2AM on local public access and yet more profound and of higher quality than anything ever put out by PBS or the BBC. Lex Fridman just did a 3 hour podcast with Niall Ferguson. They will talk about crypto currencies, money, power, and I very much hope Niall works out the econo-history thesises (basically that WWI/WWII/and the Cold War were merely local blips in the much bigger, and much more epochal, event which is the current and continuing globalization of all human economic activity) which he merely teases with in THE PITY OF WAR. They will talk all this and still have time for UFOs and yetis, smoking a couple of shrooms on-air, before finally going into what I’ve been really hanging on for after almost 3 hours of long-form, which is what flavor of Starbucks most approximates Aayan Hirsi Ali’s areoles in coloring.

    Happy Thanksgiving!

  47. Clyde says:
    @Kronos

    Thanks much for Tucker interviewing Curtis Yarvin. CY has some original thoughts.

    • Agree: Kronos
  48. I’ve never had anything against Seth Rogen – some of his roles have been pretty entertaining, some of them have been just absolute garbage.

    He’s not in the same league as Joe Rogan. Not even close.

    Rogan’s success comes from long-form interviews with interesting people where the interviewer is not trying to be the main attraction.

    The JRE format appeals to mostly young, gymbro males: 71% male; average age 24; median income just north of \$50k (self-reported); roughly-even split between high school and university educated. That’s weird considering that ‘young working class males‘ as a demographic are usually thought of as Low-Attention-Span Central… although ProTip: they’re the least Pharma-medicated.

    Pull that shit up, Jamie…

    I have no loyalty to anything, since a tit-for-tat strategy is the optimum in games with an uncertain end-point.

    Even so, I’ve been a regular listener of JRE since it was just Rogan, Brian Redban and (often) Duncan Trussel sitting around “shootin’ the shit“. I don’t listen to every episode, but I can’t recall any episode where I thought “Well that was a waste of 2½ hours“.

    Obviously it would be great from my perspective if Rogan used his considerable clout to agitate more stridently against lockdowns, mandates and so forth – but as Anons used to say on the old 4chan /b/: NYPA, bitch.

    Still: he sure as fuck got Ivermectin into the discussion.

    CNN so degraded itself in that débâcle that they had to send their House bindhi – Doctor Dothead – into the crucible; their viewership was already in steep decline, but they came out of that looking stupid and weak.

    Then they doubled down – especially Don Lemon, who outright invited the bell to toll… which is a particularly stupid thing to do if you’re trying to keep your audience ignorant of the fact that you’re a gay sexual predator.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @Feryl
    , @Thomas
  49. Altai says:

    OT: The green-eyed girl from the famous National Geographic cover has been granted asylum in Italy, for some reason. They don’t give any reason for why the Taliban might want to harm her. (The much vaunted mass slaughter we were told to expect from the Taliban by the neocons in a narcissistic rage to try and justify whatever lashing out at them they could, has not come to pass as yet)

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/25/national-geographic-green-eyed-afghan-girl-evacuated-italy-sharbat-gulla

  50. @Abe

    it is high time we stopped legitimizing corrupt legacy husks like the NEW YORK TIMES by continuing to pick the corn out of the scat

    Picking the corn out of the shit‘ is one of the most beautiful metaphorical analogies I’ve ever read. It’s been a while since I’ve seen it, but it always delights.

    Anyone who has ever used sweet corn as an indicator to get an idea about gut transit time (mine’s predictably ~19 hours) has seen what a job it would be to get the corn out.

    It would be time-consuming, messy and pointless… like fitting wheels to a tomato (Blackadder), or building a cathedral out of peas (Charlie Brooker).

  51. One is an American Catholic, while the other is a Canadian Jew.

    The names are transposed throughout this thread. But it’s not worth looking up to see which are right. It’s a Cohan/Cohen thing. Or Cowan.

    On the white solidarity front, this just in from the Nordics– what would Lothrop Stoddard think?

    Santa gets a boyfriend in new Christmas ad and it’s winning hearts

  52. @Abe

    You made me laugh ‘n’ think – – – there’ s no knob for that so I wrote it down.

  53. JimDandy says:
    @Russ

    Yep. I’ll never forget one of Sarah Silverman’s appearances on Jimmy Kimmel, years ago, when she strummed a guitar and sang songs that were offensive to every race (“Mexican Americans… fart their songs…”) but when Kimmel asked if she would write a song about Jews, she made an indignant face and said, “That’s not funny.”

    As a punchline, it was kind of amusing, but it wasn’t really mocking hypocrisy, it was a fuck you to gentiles–a reminder that the statement Marlon Brando was pilloried for was essentially correct.

    It’s wild to remember that Silverman’s entire schtick used to be political incorrectness. Now she is among the very worst of the worst of the worst of the woke scolds. She’s fond of recalling how deeply shook she was when one of her many ex-boyfriends put an American flag up in his front yard. She was so freaked out by this that she called her Rabbi sister in Israel who assured her that it was perfectly understandable for her to be terrified of an American flag–because she’s a Jew.

    • Replies: @Sick 'n Tired
    , @J.Ross
  54. @Sick of Orcs

    Both men own sensory deprivation float tanks, only Rogan’s is filled with salt water and Rogen’s with shekels.

    Huh, go figure. I would have thought the blood of Christian children.

  55. @Kratoklastes

    Rogan’s success comes from long-form interviews with interesting people where the interviewer is not trying to be the main attraction.

    That’s right.

    (If he shows signs of weakness, it’s when he – ad hoc – tries to come up with – theories. His gut-reaction-set has now been on display quite often. He approaches shallow waters by repeating himself time and time again because he has no elaborated vocabulary to express some structural deficits/shortcomings/conundrums of modern societies in a dense and – systemical way.
    He who does not want to become too much of an academic has to repeat himself over and over again. The fate of the preacherman. –

    – This might be inevitable (=structural) and – corrode with time the interest he himself has in his conversations. – It made me turn off his podcast with the utterly nice and well articulated Jewel. All of a sudden, it didn’t feel light and down to earth any more, but a bit forced. But that’s maybe just me, who for sure isn’t part of his core audience.

    A few weks ago, I talked to a very nice (think of Jewel…) German young lady who, as it turned out, is indeed listening to Joe Rogans podcasts quite often. She’s the daughter of a single mum, who is cleaning houses and she is in a quite good programming school, a step down from the engineering grades. She loves Rogan! – And she loves a young man (a carpenter…) who, as it turned out, is into kick-boxing…)

  56. @SafeNow

    and the mixologist here at the Sailer pub

    No offense intended, but ‘mixologist’ is an abomination on the scale of ‘latinx’. At the Sailer pub we have a bartender, thank you very much.

    • Replies: @SafeNow
  57. I’ve scanned the comments, and I’m still not clear on which is which.

    …but at least I’ve gathered they’re two different people!

  58. I would never make that error. I remember Joe as the little guy on that show with Scott Foley from Kids In The Hall, a Canadian show whose entire audience consisted of about 250 to 300 people. The dark haired guy, Kevin MacDonald, I believe was the funniest of that crew. They should have put him on SNL instead of McKinney.
    I digress.
    Seth Rogen has always been that oleaginous guy with no charm or talent who manages to star in a lot of movies I never saw. I did see Pineapple Express,and thought it was,tbh,horseshit.
    It must be noted that the pretty actress who costarred with him in a wacky romance comedy felt the need to publicly criticize her own movie for implying that a woman like her would sleep with a Seth Rogen.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  59. @J.Ross

    There are many fake celebrities but perhaps none as cardboard as that guy.

    Who? Zach or Barak?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  60. SafeNow says:
    @kaganovitch

    “Mixology is an exciting discipline that combines an appreciation of classic cocktails and cocktail culture with a desire to create new cocktail recipes with a forward-thinking culinary approach.”

    So says a website on the difference between a bartender and mixologist. This is what I was trying to get at. “Bartender” seemed too perfunctory; “What’ll you have?”, wipe the glass, pour the drink. In any case, I agree with you about artificial words and vogue words, and I do my best to avoid these.

  61. Rob says:
    @Abe

    People always said smoking ‘shrooms did not work. In my experience, it worked just dandy.

    You know that old rhyme, “candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker”? I always thought it was about what you could do to improve your mood. I had no idea it would not be #MeToo-approved, so to say. First Santa, then the Easter Bunny, now this. Is the Tooth Fairy next?

    Other than that response, you left a fantastic comment, and I am in awe.

  62. @Abe

    Lex Fridman’s podcast is great, most of his guests are in the top of their fields, yet mostly unknown in today’s celebrity driven culture, even though they are the ones who’s work are actually shaping our future and culture.

  63. Anon[966] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sick 'n Tired

    I was never a big fan of Joe Rogan’s standup, so it took me a while to get around to actually listen to his podcast.

    Rogan and his standup aren’t and weren’t ever funny. His standup is terrible. And his voice is very annoying to listen to, or at least it was until he started taking TRT/HGH. However, as you go on to say, his interviewing and podcasting are good.

    His main contribution as an interviewer were the topics and guests he had on. He himself doesn’t have much funny or interesting things to say. But he’s interested in a wide variety of things, off-beat and esoteric things, and he would bring on the main people in those respective things. So he’d have the biggest author on a particular conspiracy theory, or on Ancient Aliens, or whatever.

    I would say his podcast has declined a bit since his move to Spotify as he’s been forced to take on more mainstream guests and bigger celebrities, and away from more obscure and controversial topics/guests.

    • Agree: Sick 'n Tired
  64. SFG says:

    OT, but:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/24/opinion/creative-minority-multiculturalism.html

    We all knew David Brooks was ripping off Steve, but now he’s ripping off Steve’s commenters.

    Congratulations, AnotherDad! You have made it into the zeitgeist.

    • Agree: kaganovitch
  65. Who knew that (at least) two Dallas Cowboys offense players have nose rings…? And after googling, i see even more with them. Dufuq?

  66. @Anonymous

    “We’re going to see mass migration on biblical scales…”

    Okay. Well, what is a biblical scale? According to
    https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/world-population-by-year/
    , the world’s population in biblical times (the year -1,000) was 50 million, and today is 7795 million, so the biblical scale is 50/7795 = .007 = about half a percent of what it is today. So according to this prediction, mass migration will be only about 1/200 of what it is now.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  67. Anonymous[638] • Disclaimer says:

    Is this like when Steve thought there was similarity between Trump and Biden because neither one of them supposedly had a filter?

    I don’t think Trump and Biden are the same. And I don’t think anyone is confusing Joe and Seth. Joe interviews interesting people and his mind wanders free like a cis gendered heterosexual white male. Seth, not so much.

  68. While we’re on the subject of crime and Wisconsin, a WI native is at the center of a crime where the man convicted has now been exonerated:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/23/alice-sebold-1981-rape-conviction-overturned

    Unfortunately for him, the jury wasn’t dreadlocked (that anyone knows of), and he spent 16 years in prison. Of course, given the nature of the judicial system these days, and the automatic thumb on the scale in favor of black defendants, you have to ask – was this man exonerated, or was he merely “exonerated”.

  69. @SFG

    Congratulations, AnotherDad! You have made it into the zeitgeist.

    Ah, but Dearieme made it into an anagram. Beat that, Daddy-O!

    Just in time for December’s appeal:

    Another Dad = Donate hard!

  70. Anonymous[950] • Disclaimer says:
    @JimDandy

    Joe Rogan should stay exactly where he is. He is one of the best influences on mainstream America today. He’s also a self-described lefty and I don’t think he really understands some basic economic concepts. His presidency would be a shitshow, even relative to the current clown. Tucker on the other hand…

    Joe Rogan’s presidency would be a shitshow…

    Everybody: COMPARED TO WHAT?!

  71. @pyrrhus

    …and has a spinning back kick that would fell a steer…

    Rogan’s kicks are allegedly quite impressive:

    • Replies: @Cutler
  72. @Kronos

    Curtis Yarvin.

    This clown’s take on Beer Flu was so bad he invalidated everything he did or will do.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  73. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    Rogan got in a flame war with John Milius’s daughter today. One wag quipped, “This is word for word the court transcript from the case between the last two Jews in Kabul.”

  74. @B36

    Rogan’s good but I prefer Joe Pyne.

    He was the “go gargle with razor blades” guy?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  75. Zoos says:

    OT: Remember the “delta virus”?

    Better start acclimating yourself to the “Nuvirus”.

    Futures are currently tanking, and the UK just announced a flight ban on the citizens from most of subsaharan Africa. Dunno what’s up with flights from there to here. Likely we’ll let them keep pouring in.

    Remember masks? Ah ha ha ha! Yeh, that was funny.

    Makes one wonder about the Africans currently making their way to the Mexican border. That is, if not us, could Brazil be next to carry the new variant? If it gets a foothold here, Biden’s open door policy will ensure it kicks ass here.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/futures-global-stocks-tumble-amid-sudden-fears-over-dramatically-new-covid-strain

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  76. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    Well, surviving Assyrian records indicate that the Sargonid Dynasty moved some 5-7 million people- 10/15 percent of the then World population- from one end of the Assyrian empire to the other over a period of around 4 decades. In present day numbers that would mean circa 1 billion people. That is what is meant by ‘biblical scale’.

  77. @Mike Tre

    OT – There has been a 5 fold increase in professional soccer players collapsing on the field during game play in 2021:

    Even more shocking, this time they aren’t getting right up again.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  78. @kaganovitch

    Rogan’s good but I prefer Joe Pyne.

    He was the “go gargle with razor blades” guy?

    Yes. Borrowed from Shemp Howard:

    Trivia: What did Shemp have in common with Geddy Lee of Rush?

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    , @B36
  79. Kronos says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    He certainly took the Nassim Taleb approach. He took the vaccine, (I don’t know which) wore goggles, and wore the super duty N100 mask (not the pointless surgical mask.) He also ate the dreaded horse paste Ivermectin. He was trying everything available to ward off known and unknown variables of the virus. (Also, his wife was terminally ill at the time so that’s an additional incentive to prevent spread amongst family.)

    It’ll be cool to devise a chart chronicling the evolution of COVID conspiracy theories and variant strains of thought. The first big dividing line was “lab leak” people vs “bat soup” people. But then the lab leak people developed between “bioweapon grade virus leak” and “slightly modified meh virus leak.” I think “the soupers” are nearly all gone and have merged with one of these two camps. (You also have Ron Unz and VoxDay, who plausibly contends COVID was an intentional leak by the US Deep State for various geopolitical reasons.)

  80. @B36

    Rogan’s good but I prefer Joe Pyne.

    In 1949, Pyne invented the call-in radio show in, of all places, Kenosha:

    Joe Pyne Was America’s First Shock Jock

    Appropriately, at WLIP.

    That and an operating streetcar service are even more reasons to visit Kenosha!

  81. @Dave Pinsen

    LOL FFS.

    Cenk also thought he could lay down the law to women as to when they should bestow their favours upon him.

    Who funds this clown? Why is he still strutting the stage?

  82. @Bardon Kaldian

    The samurai tried all sorts of things to cope with living on the edge of death – poetry, flower arranging, tea ceremony, Zen Buddhism.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  83. @Acilius

    I loved it too. In addition to the brilliant cast and scripting, having Maura Tierney and Vicki Lewis on screen together was quite a thing for a young man.

    I had no idea the ‘Joe’ in NR was the Joe Rogan until I started watching the old episodes again. Just demonstrates that the man was always talented and hard-working, his success is well-deserved.

  84. Twinkie says:
    @Anon

    I know of a 9th degree (hon.) Taekwondo black belt

    President Trump enjoys watching fights, from what I hear, but has never been, let’s just say, much of an athlete. In fact, he reputedly disdains athletic endeavors, esp. endurance sports, as being bad for the heart and longevity.

    There are two world leaders with legit combat sport training credentials. One is Vladimir Putin, who’s been a lifelong Judo practitioner. The other is Khaltmaa Battulga of Mongolia, also a Judoka:

    Every kid who grew up in the Washington, D.C. area (now called the DMV) in the 1970’s has this commercial ingrained in his or her brain

    Jhoon Rhee was a friend of Bruce Lee. He passed away a couple of years ago in Arlington, VA.

  85. Twinkie says:
    @Anonymous

    how Joe Rogan “can’t fight”…from what I recall, several people challenged Vox to go down to any BJJ gym in Italy (where he lives and opines about what regular Americans should do) and challenge any white belt in his age group/weight.

    I don’t know about white belts, but most BJJ blue belts should be able to wreck untrained people in a fight.

    I understand the skepticism about Joe Rogan’s fighting ability. Hollywood has a lot of poseurs. But Rogan’s the real deal. His old TKD school in Mass. was pretty hardcore, he did a lot of kickboxing/Muay Thai training after his TKD competition days, and he is a legit 10th Planet BJJ black belt. Eddie Bravo doesn’t hand out black belts willy-nilly. Even in this day of increasing sport-ization of BJJ, a legit BJJ black belt should be able to strangle 99% of human beings in a fight.

  86. @Twinkie

    President Trump enjoys watching fights, from what I hear, but has never been, let’s just say, much of an athlete.

    Trump was an excellent baseball player in high school and is probably the best golfer to be POTUS.

    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
    , @Twinkie
  87. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Cenk Uygur thinks he can take Rogan.

    Unless Uygur has significant amount of training, he is being delusional. Him saying “I grew up fighting a lot” is like saying a guy who grew up playing pickup games (pick a sport) in his neighborhood can beat a college player. Sure, size matters a lot (there are weight classes in combat sports for a reason), but it won’t matter much if the skill disparity is large.

    This shows Rogan’s striking skills, and these days he’s primarily a Jits guy:

    Realistically, what will probably happen is Uygur will eat one liver kick and crumble to the ground in agony. That’s if Rogan doesn’t arm-drag him, takes his back, strangles him silly.

    I don’t know why people believe delusional things about (their own) fighting ability. Fighting is like any other athletic activity – it requires years of skill- and attribute-development and constant competition (or at least sparring). The vast majority of people simply have no clue how many “levels” higher people who have undergone such training are compared to the “Average Joe.” See an example here:

    That “MMA guy” employs one of the most basic combinations in striking – low kick – which makes the target drop his blocking hand to the leg – followed by same side punch to the head, that is the staple of Shotokan Karate, Muay Thai, and American Kickboxing. Note also the constant lateral movement he employs to take himself off-center from the line of the attack from the black guy. And the very good timing of the Sen-no-sen* lunge punch he does on a guy who runs forward.

    *Commonly used in Shotokan – you set up your opponent with a couple of retreats and the next time your opponent chases you and takes an extra step, instead of retreating you lunge forward with a “preventative” punch, resulting in “clothes-lining” of the running opponent.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  88. duncsbaby says:
    @Brutusale

    Rogan hasn’t been a Catholic since his childhood when he went to Catholic school for one year. Other than that he’s a 70’s child of divorce raised for the most part w/out religion.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  89. duncsbaby says:
    @J.Ross

    Is this in response to Seth’s tweets laughing off an LA car burglary as part and parcel of living in a big city, which has the bizarre and potentially iStevey detail that, despite his despair, the person complaining about the crime actually managed to get his stuff back?

    I think you’re probably right. Joe Rogan from what I understand has moved to Texas, having got sick and tired of Cali crime and lock-downs. Seth Rogen’s one schtick is Hollywood stoner/funny-man (sic) who marinates in his liberal hell-scape and wants all of America to share in the slime.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  90. Why do BJJ militants always come across as feminized spergs?

    Whenever some BJJ hotshot’s prowess is impugned, there’s always a guy posting a wall of text on liver kicks, arm drags, and fake Japanese martial arts like ‘sho-tokaaaan‘.

    It wouldn’t surprise me to learn BJJ exists only in bad manga and that Joe Rogan is a dwarf.

    And Seth Rogan’s An American Pickle may be simultaneously the most Jewish movie ever made in America and the worst.

    • Troll: Twinkie
  91. joe_mama says:
    @Sick 'n Tired

    This exactly. He’s a great interviewer, who has a legit variety of guests. A description of him that I like is, he’s a “Bro” Johnny Carson.

    It’s definitely great to give his show a try by picking a guest in an area that interests you. One of my all time favs is with John Carmack (Id Software):

    https://open.spotify.com/embed-podcast/episode/6kOa4mSuZcIOEPaGmDZf9r

    You can tell Rogan works hard and does his homework by asking questions, and talking about topics in the interviewee’s wheelhouse.

  92. JimDandy says:
    @Anon

    He was some kind of national TKD champ, too.

  93. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Trump was an excellent baseball player in high school and is probably the best golfer to be POTUS.

    What do you mean by “excellent” here? And that was, what, sixty years ago?

    And I consider golf more a game than an athletic endeavor.

    • Troll: Vinnyvette
  94. Twinkie says:
    @duncsbaby

    As far as I can tell, Joe Rogan is averse to religion in general and seems particularly hostile to Catholicism.

  95. Rogen, Rogan, Rogen,
    Rogan, Rogen, Rogan,
    Keep them doggies roguin’
    Rawhide!
    Don’t try to understand ’em
    Just rope ’em, throw, and brand ’em
    Soon we’ll be livin’ high and wide…

  96. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Twinkie

    Realistically, what will probably happen is nothing. Cenk and Rogan are unlikely to meet; if they do, neither will physically attack the other; and of course Cenk would never agree to get in a ring or cage with Rogan. Cenk is just trolling a more popular broadcaster in the hope that Rogan will give him more attention.

    I don’t remember leg kicks in Karate-Do Kyohan, but it’s been a while since I studied Shotokan. Maybe it has evolved. I don’t recall ever seeing a lunge punch used in any martial arts competition, though of course they were a common drill in karate classes.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  97. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Twinkie

    By “excellent”, I mean he was reportedly scouted by major league teams. I would think there’d be some parallels between the muscle memory involved in golf and martial arts. Trump probably could have become good at martial arts if he had trained in them.

    • Replies: @Danindc
  98. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    of course Cenk would never agree to get in a ring or cage with Rogan.

    Or confront him anywhere else.

    I don’t remember leg kicks in Karate-Do Kyohan, but it’s been a while since I studied Shotokan. Maybe it has evolved. I don’t recall ever seeing a lunge punch used in any martial arts competition, though of course they were a common drill in karate classes.

    What?

  99. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Twinkie

    Most of those look like reverse punches, some with jabs as follow ups, not lunge punches. Reverse punches are of course very common in tournament karate.

    BTW, re liver kicks: there’s an up-and-coming UFC fighter from Georgia named Giga Chikadze who’s worth a watch.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  100. Anonymous[252] • Disclaimer says:

  101. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    By “excellent”, I mean he was reportedly scouted by major league teams.

    I don’t know how true that is: https://slate.com/culture/2020/05/donald-trump-baseball-high-school-nyma.html

    It’s perhaps unfair to draw conclusions from a fraction of those games, but the box scores showed that in his sophomore year, Trump’s .100 batting average in those games was the lowest of any of the five players who had at least eight at-bats. As a junior, he did a tad better, hitting .200, albeit on a team that mustered a mere 11 hits over three games. Trump’s senior year, four teammates had more hits than he did.

    I asked Keith Law, a senior baseball writer for the Athletic and author of The Inside Game who covers the MLB draft, if Trump’s numbers sounded like those of a pro prospect.

    “There’s no chance,” said Law, who once worked in the front office of the Toronto Blue Jays assessing high school players. “You don’t hit .138 for some podunk, cold-weather high school playing the worst competition you could possibly imagine. You wouldn’t even get recruited for Division I baseball programs, let alone by pro teams. That’s totally unthinkable. It’s absolutely laughable. He hit .138—he couldn’t fucking hit, that’s pretty clear.”

    Look, I voted for Trump and will vote for him again, but he says a lot of things about himself that is not true.

    Most of those look like reverse punches, some with jabs as follow ups, not lunge punches.

    Watch starting 1:11 mark of the second video I posted above. It shows a very traditional Shotokan combo – a kick followed by a same side lunge punch – which Lyoto Machida used masterfully to knock down Rashad Evans.

    One thing I like to clarify: Sen-no-sen doesn’t require an actual lunge punch (Oi-zuki). You can also use the reverse punch (Gyaku-zuki). The far more important thing about Sen-no-sen is having your opponent to come forward and you simultaneously moving (lunging) forward with a strike to intercept the opponent before he can get off his strike. That produces what a fight analyst Jack Slack calls “a collision” and greatly magnifies the damage inflicted by the strike. Essentially your opponent runs into your strike.

    up-and-coming UFC fighter from Georgia named Giga Chikadze

    He calls that the “Giga kick.” I’ve been watching Chikadze since his Glory kickboxing days.

    You know whose next fight I really would like to see? Khamzat Chimaev:

    I’d like to see how this new phenom stacks up against an elite wrestler like Colby Covington, BJJ ace like Gilbert Burns, and tricky striker like “Wonderboy” Thompson. And, if he could pass those tests, the 170 lbs. champion Kamaru Usman.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
  102. @Stebbing Heuer

    And that’s why they remained a retarded warrior caste easily defeated by each more innovative force.

    First- they were mentally-emotionally-morally underdeveloped psychos. How else to explain their unwavering loyalty to some worthless feudal lord. Such a cast of mind shows a rudimentary mental world, almost zombies with no true moral & human dilemmas.

    Second- this is a morbid & idiotic way to live. There is a line, or something similar, from the Bushido: For a samurai, there is only one thing in life- to learn how to face death without blinking. That’s good for zombies, and not human beings. No wonder they produced virtually nothing. Their perception of human potential & what life and the world could offer to the individual remains primitive, good only for sketchy human beings.

    That they remained culturally, technologically, socially, …. sterile is perfectly natural & expected.

  103. Nodwink says:
    @Danindc

    Seth Rogen has been critical of Zionism, and was harangued into backtracking. Not a fan of his work, but he seems like a decent guy (esp. by Hollywood standards).

  104. @Martin Luther King

    It must be noted that the pretty actress who costarred with him in a wacky romance comedy felt the need to publicly criticize her own movie for implying that a woman like her would sleep with a Seth Rogen.

    Katherine Heigl is a crackpot but she ain’t wrong.

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  105. @duncsbaby

    Joe Rogan from what I understand has moved to Texas, having got sick and tired of Cali crime and lock-downs

    And taxes, which is why Rush moved from NY to Florida

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @RadicalCenter
  106. J.Ross says:
    @The Alarmist

    To be fair I remember Barack’s name.

  107. Alden says:
    @Kronos

    I don’t watch TV news and political comment shows at all. Nor read newspapers. And I don’t know anyone under the age of 65 who does watch and read that garbage.

    TV and radio news and political comment shows are as dated as newspapers. How can anyone stand the 2 minutes of news 2 minutes of ads and 2 minutes of news coming up next?

    • Agree: Kronos
  108. @Zoos

    FT100 down 3%, oil down 7%, metals down except for gold/silver, crypto down.

    Airlines/hospitality/travel down, home delivery up.

    I wonder if we might see yet more travel restrictions on top of this? If it can’t be contained and the vax doesn’t work … isn’t it time Peter Daszak was put on trial, or is that too soon?

    Peter Daszak is a British zoologist, consultant and public expert on disease ecology, in particular on zoonosis. He is the president of EcoHealth Alliance, a nonprofit non-governmental organization that supports various programs on global health and pandemic prevention.

    No mention of birthplace or early life, but it appears he was born in 1965, middle brother of three, to a father called Bohdan Daszak and mother Ruth Walton who married in 1959. Dad is the first ever Daszak in the UK records afaik, presumably came in as a displaced person post-WW2 – could be Czech or Ukrainian.

    At least Boris has learned from the Indian Delta strain fiasco, when he announced a ban on travel from India – “to take place a week on Friday” leading to a rush which brought in the virus. The ban on SA flights is as of now.

  109. Danindc says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Great golfer. Excellent high school baseball player and there’s video of him throwing a football where he looks like a legit quarterback.

  110. @ScarletNumber

    Katherine Heigl has one natural child, two adopted children, and eight dogs.

    Demographic sink for pretty women.

    (Green eyed Afghan Girl is 6 years older, widowed with four kids)

  111. Alden says:
    @ScarletNumber

    Taxes is why the Pelosis have bought a house in Florida. Jupiter Island no less. A private. Island no blacks allowed. There have been an enormous number of BLM burglaries as close as 3 blocks from their San Francisco mansion. And they are old and fragile. Especially Nancy.

    The blacks break through the garage doors of Pacific and Presidio Heights at night and walk right into the house. And the multi multi millionaires are shocked, shocked that their beloved blacks have swarmed into their neighborhood to pillage.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  112. Cutler says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    George St Pierre ( former UFC world champion ) says Joe has some of the most powerful kicks he’s ever seen in person and he’s brought in many elite muay Thai boxing champions into his Tri Star gym.

    • Thanks: The Wild Geese Howard
  113. Cutler says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Cenk might take a double cheeseburger but that’s it

  114. @Bardon Kaldian

    By the way, for those interested in the NDE phenomenon (not in Rogan or Rogen)- the best & newest stuff is by the patriarch of the NDE studies, Raymond Moody. It has nothing to do with the trauma, closeness to death & anything similar. It involves perfectly healthy witnesses.

    These are witnesses staying beside their dying loving ones & experiencing the fundamental transformation of consciousness. This is much more spectacular than by now boring usual NDEs involving heart attacks, car crashes etc.

    You got the whole book here: https://cloudflare-ipfs.com/ipfs/bafykbzacedr3oguvh4qeirhtgajg5poqdht53ugnfhpatkxzcn6eepi57lp4o?filename=Raymond%20Moody%20-%20Glimpses%20of%20Eternity%20%28Mind%20Body%20Spirit%29-Guideposts%20%282010%29.pdf

    And here is one typical & seductive passage …
    ————–
    Change of geometry

    This trait is difficult to describe because it takes so many different shapes. It is also one that is not found in near- death experiences. A woman who was at the bedside of her dying brother said it was as though the square room she was in “shifted” into another shape. As one man, a math teacher, described it, “It was as though the room collapsed and expanded at the same time. It was as though I was witnessing an alternative geometry.”

    [MORE]

    For many, this change of geometry means that the room simply seems to change shape. Others have said that the room changes shape but also opens into an “alternative reality” that is described in various ways. Some say that the room opens into a world where “time is not a factor.” One woman described the feeling she had as one in which “spirits could see in and look at us, but we could not see them.” Another woman said “the room was like Disneyland in that it made me realize that most of the stuff that happens in the world happens behind the scenes and that all we see is the surface, where the functioning part is.”
    ……………………………………………………..

    … by the experience of Nancy, whose brother was dying of congestive heart failure at a hospital in North Carolina. As she said,

    “Since I didn’t know how long he would last, I decided to stay in the room with him, sitting at his bedside.
    “After a day or so of waiting, his breathing became more labored and then he stopped breathing altogether. I held his hand and the nurse came in and stood by the bed. He had a Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) order, but she wanted to make sure his last moments here comfortable.
    “All of a sudden I felt the room change shape, almost like it filed with air and inflated. Then I felt myself lift out of my body and join my brother in midair! We literally swirled around the room as spirits and then I felt myself return to my body and the perspective I have always had. While we here flying around the room, I could see myself sitting next to my brother and I could see my brother in the air with me. When I returned to my body the room returned to ifs shape, which was all right angles.”

    ………………………………………..

    Whatever the case, many people respond to the light in the way that Sharon Nelson of Maryland did. She told me of her brush with the light at the deathbed of her sister and its long-term effects:

    “About ten years ago, my very beloved sister was dying 0f cancer at home in her bedroom. I was present along with my other sister and my brother-in-law. About one week prior to my sister’s actual passing, a bright white light engulfed the room. It was a light that we all saw and a light that has stayed with as ever since. I felt an intense love and connection with everyone in the room, including other ’souls’ that were not visible but that we felt the presence of.

    “For me, I saw nothing except this white light and my ill sister. For many years I thought that this light said to me, ’This house, these things , they are not real.’ I was confused why those thoughts had come to my mind, but I now realize I was experiencing what my dying sister was experiencing. What a revelation! Words cannot express what impact this experience had on me. This was certainly not something I had ever thought before. The wisdom and peace of this light have not left me since.”

  115. Feryl says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Joe’s Bro audience can be put down to heavy lifting internet content being the baliwick of straight white guys (which became evident in the dawn of blogging in the late 99’s/early 2000’s). The trad. media-verse is premised on social networking that gays, women, and shallow narcissistic straight guys are better at. Jim Kunstler is a curmudgeon who hates big cities, ebonics, and celebrity freakazoids. No way he had chance in the trade. media. RamZPaul and Sailer both have backgrounds in business, not legacy media. Etc. Nearly all of the great bloggers are straight white guys, and the bulk of insightful and sincere podcasters/YouTube streamers are non-effeminate white guys.

    You are correct about the idiocy of dumping on the demographic that actually thinks, analyzes, questions (the “conventional wisdom”), and creates. Minorities, women, and modern culturally elite white guys are not quite as “woke” as they are made out to be.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  116. Zoos says:
    @Mike Tre

    His stand up was OK. His funniest bit was when he roasted a fan who kept interrupting his routine.

    Don’t forget Rogan confronting Carlos Mencia onstage for stealing jokes, virtually ending Mencia’s career.

  117. @Kronos

    I think “the soupers” are nearly all gone and have merged with one of these two camps.

    I am not now, nor have I ever been, a proponent of the lab-leak theory and I don’t know how anybody else could be. Furthermore, the “souper” moniker is also a distraction and a strawman.

    The simple fact of the matter—which everyone seems to be forgetting—is that antibody analyses performed on stores of blood donations have proved that Covid-19 was circulating in human populations, at a low level, several months before the outbreak in Wuhan.

    This was neither lab-leak nor bat-soup. Covid-19 is a natural (and not particularly dangerous) phenomenon, a cross-species jump of a previously obscure corona virus. But for some odd reason, ever since about March of 2020 the world has continued to see Gröfaz in a bag of pigeon feed. It’s like a nightmare you can’t wake up from.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  118. @SFG

    Congratulations, AnotherDad! You have made it into the zeitgeist.

    Not quite. AnotherDad’s wish of “separate nations” wasn’t covered by Brooks: Brooks’ second choice is just separatism or segregation within a nation. We already do that, to a large extent, racially and/or socioeconomically.

    Brooks:

    Historically, to riff on another Sacks observation, there have been at least four different minority mind-sets:

    First, assimilation. The assimilationists feel constricted by their minority identity. They want to be seen as individuals, not as a member of some outsider category. They shed the traits that might identity themselves as Jews or Mexicans or what have you.

    Second, separatism. The separatists want to preserve the authenticity of their own culture. They send their kids to schools with their own kind, socialize mostly with their own kind. They derive meaning from having a strong cohesive identity and don’t want it watered down.

    Third, combat. People who take this approach see life as essentially a struggle between oppressor and oppressed groups. Bigotry is so baked in that there’s no realistic hope of integration. The battle must be fought against the groups that despise us and whose values are alien to us. In fact, this battle gives life purpose.

    Fourth, integration without assimilation. People who take this approach cherish their group for the way it contributes to the national whole. E pluribus unum. Members of this group celebrate pluralistic, hyphenated identities and the fluid mixing of groups that each contribute to an American identity.

    Our politics is so nasty now because many people find the third mind-set most compelling.

    Here’s Brooks’ ‘solution’ :

    Integration without assimilation is the only way forward. It is, as the prophet Jeremiah suggested, to transmit the richness of your own cultures while seeking the peace and prosperity of the city to which you have been carried.

    It is hard. It means socializing with diverse and sometimes antagonistic groups rather than resting in the one that feels most at home. It means recognizing and embracing the fact that, as an American, you contain multiple identities and cultures.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @SFG
    , @Curle
  119. mc23 says:
    @Brutusale

    ‘As the twig is bent”

  120. @Twinkie

    And I consider golf more a game than an athletic endeavor.

    The prosecution rests.

  121. @Kronos

    Yarvin’s a better writer than speaker, as this interview indicates.

    OT: Seeing Yarvin in an iSteve comment section reminds me that one of the most engaging debates I’ve ever experienced on the Shakespeare authorship question took place in an iSteve comment section eleven years ago. Yarvin, then using the pseudonym Mencius Moldbug, with one or two allies, took on a group of devout Statforians. Quite a spirited debate. It’s here if you’re interested.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    , @Curle
  122. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    >I don’t know about white belts, but most BJJ blue belts should be able to wreck untrained people in a fight.

    🙂

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @joe_mama
  123. nebulafox says:
    @Feryl

    Part of the reason I really like crypto culture is because it allows you to do cool math/computer stuff without the “eunuch” zeitgeist that seems to be the cultural default in the US-and is getting more intense with the tyranny of the HR mediocrities. Pretty much everybody I know on the scene has some kind of intense physical training to train their bodies. These are often ex-scientists, etc. Many of them said they only really got into this stuff after leaving academia and shedding a lot of their presumptions. And it honestly helps your mind. I notice the difference.

    (Really need a stable check? Don’t worry. Even in FAANG, you can find a good subculture if you are careful.)

    Good bodies and good minds should go together.

  124. WJ says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Tiresome cliche stuff about living life to the fullest… etc. Nothing original out of his mouth.

  125. B36 says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Extensive research indicates that their Eastern European mothers could not pronounce their English given names correctly. Sam came out as Shemp and Gary as Geddy.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  126. Mike Tre says:
    @Twinkie

    Trump* was a decent athlete in high school. He played on several sports teams including baseball, football and soccer. The photos of him from that time show him to be well built. 90% of the very good athletes in high school never progress any further. And who cares if it was 60 years ago? You’re the one said “never been.” Is that the definition of never? Longer than 59 years?

    If you were half the man of integrity you claim to be, you’d simply admit that you made the “never been much of an athlete” out of ignorance. But know-it-alls gotta know it all.

    *Worst president of my lifetime.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  127. @Kronos

    Taleb looks rather fragile in that photograph to me.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    , @adreadline
  128. Joe Rogan comes off as the typical “dumb jock.” What makes his show good is the interesting guests he has on. Not too hard… Book someone who is currently in the headlines, or relevant to current events. Go to their wiki page and gather some Cliffs notes, ask good questions about their life, career, and or the current events that make them relevant to public discourse, let them speak.
    The other aspect of his success is he is decidedly “un woke,” and will take on controversial topics / guests, in a time when sane people are thirsting for relief from p.c and wokeness. Make \$100 million dollars.
    Not unlike Jordan Peterson, who is an intellectual heavyweight, but who’s house hold name success is in large part because of his anti woke, p.c. defiance.
    That said, I don’t see how anyone could confuse Joe with Seth who is an effeminate, talentless, assclown.

  129. @Mike Tre

    The Joe Rogan Experience podcast can be great or so-so depending on the guest. The #1736 show with Tristan Haris & Daniel Schmachtenberger was excellent, really interesting and informative. I’d also recommend the interviews he did with Elon Musk, Leah Remini, and Colin Wright.

    Rogan asks good questions and keeps up the energy level.

    • Thanks: Mike Tre
  130. @Twinkie

    Didn’t he finagle a failure on the physical exam for the armed forces? According to google, the new york times, and the washington post this is a true fact. Bone spurs in feet.

    How you could be both an athlete and physically unqualified for the army at the same time is left as an exercise for the high school debate team.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  131. @Anonymous

    I followed Vox Day’s blog for awhile, but man, there’s really something wrong with the guy, picking fights with people like Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson who couldn’t care less what he thinks of them. He even posted about how he could kick the ass of the late, great comic book artist Jack Kirby– seriously! Vox’s blog is also the only place I read about QAnon before the progressives blew it up into an existential threat. Vox actually bought into it, “Trust the plan” and all.

    That said, his books Cuckservatives and SJWs Always Lie are quite good.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @Jon
  132. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    Well… yeah-kudos to you, your comment got me going. But I have to cop to some recent failure: I haven’t been nearly as active as I would have liked over the last few months, between a move, interviews, and a new job which is lucrative, but is requiring I overhaul a lot of my hitherto ill-disciplined work habits. No excuses, though: now that the job is looking more secure, I plan on getting back on track next week, both with BJJ and lifting.

    I’ve also gotten my siblings into different stuff (one judo, the other boxing/Muay Thai), and my mother is slowly getting back into the gym/outdoors after surgery. Family effort!

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  133. nebulafox says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    >Integration without assimilation

    Yeah, no. This doesn’t happen in real life. Just look at the Turks in Germany for an example if you are foolish enough to try. Letting people have two masters is a recipe for disaster: national interests aside, most second-generation Muslim immigrants in Europe tend to be a lot more “lost” than their parents.

    I should note that “multi-cultural” doesn’t necessarily mean “non-assimilated”. Russia and Singapore provide good examples of places where minorities do keep their own cultures and religions and are generally respected (unlike, say, Xinjiang): both Putin and the PAP leave no illusions as to what ethnic group is in charge in the end, but are always careful to never let things get too far. There’s a reason that Russia’s hardcore Russian ethno-nationalists usually find themselves in jail.

    When you dig beneath the surface of state-favored surface level multiculturalism, the ethnic minorities turn out to be very much “Russia/Singaporeanized” in their mentality and ways. Within their own genetic/cultural parameters, of course: there’s a reason Singapore is obsessed with keeping the demographic ratio stable.

    I think America should be able to do better than Russia and Singapore, personally. But we’re actively trying to do worse.

  134. nebulafox says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    You lowly GAMMA! How dare you! Vox Day is busy printing his books in 6 languages, while creating a 7th of his own creation, all while outswimming Navy SEALs and pioneering his own new branch of mathematics! He is the eternally recurring return to a more pristine age! And you are just a gamma, with your gamma tells and whatnot!

    The guy’s got his own printing press going for him, so you have to give him credit for that much: more than what most achieve. I mean, Van Creveld’s book “Hitler in Hell” went through it. But his lack of self-awareness is… notable, especially when it should have been obvious to any independent mind that Trump was less 4D chessmaster than reality TV star he… well, had been before.

    • LOL: Harry Baldwin
  135. joe_mama says:
    @nebulafox

    Yeah that’s best definition to go by. Firas Zihabi brings it up in his JRE interview. At blue, you should be able to handle a bigger, stronger unskilled opponent.

  136. SFG says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Well, David Brooks is gonna David Brooks, but (A) I’ve seen a slackening in the Great Awokening lately–NYT editorial board actually having an editorial saying ‘cool it on the wokeness’ and putting McWhorter up there and (B) AnotherDad actually got his ideas discussed deep behind enemy lines. I don’t know about separation, but at least a few old UWS Jewish ladies are going to be “uh, maybe going all-out on this isn’t such a good idea”.

    With regards to (A), this is the time to work to elect Republicans in 2022 and make it clear the Dems are going to have to back off if they want a shot at swing voters.

    With regards to (B), he ought to just light a stogie and have himself a good rich steak and potatoes or the most stereotypical middle-American thing he can do. Be grateful for small mercies.

  137. @JimDandy

    Norm MacDonald on the Brando statement. :

    • Replies: @Gunner
  138. @Twinkie

    Not to mention perennial iSteve favorite, Ramzan Kadyrov, President of Chechnya, holds a 5 dan in Kyokushin 極真 Karate.

    Ushijima Tatsukuma 牛島辰熊 (1904-1985), referred to as one of the strongest ever judokas. In 1944 plotted with one time Kwantung Army Chief of Operations, Ishihara Kanji* to assassinate Tojo.

    The plan was to throw a blue acid gas bomb from the pine tree in front of the Imperial Palace toward the open car on which Tojo is riding. The plan was foiled, and somehow he survived to to found International Judo Association in 1950.

    (Had it been attempted would be on par in audacity with Stauffenberg’s July 20th attack on Hitler and Operation Anthropoid to assassinate Reinhardt Heydrich)

    View post on imgur.com


    Ushijima in Beijing after defeating the Chinese sumo champion in a mixed discipline challenge

    *Ishihara was the mastermind behind Mukden Incident (1931) annexation of Manchuria, but became disillusioned by escalation of war south of the Great Wall (1937) and Pacific (1941)

  139. OT

    12 year old white girl Ava White goes with her friends to watch the Liverpool Christmas lights being switched on, “gets into argument” with “teens”, dies of “catastrophic injuries”, apparently stabbed to death.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-59427833

    Four boys between 13 and 15 from Toxteth have been arrested. Toxteth is a heavily black area of Liverpool, although there are some pretty nasty white “scallies” as well.

  140. @Twinkie

    A Turkish-German youtuber here gives I think a fair assessment of Bruce Lee’s chances in modern MMA (translation of caption can be turned on on PC):

    Despite some claims (Conor McGregor, Israel Adesanya) that Bruce can run over UFC; while he has the elite level power, fluidity and agility, he would not have a chance against to top bantam and featherweights, precisely because he lacks the grappling and ground skills

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @Vinnyvette
  141. @SFG

    (A) I’ve seen a slackening in the Great Awokening lately–NYT editorial board actually having an editorial saying ‘cool it on the wokeness’ and putting McWhorter up there

    NYT tactical taquiyya. Youngkin’s election and the Rittenhouse verdict got their readership rattled. The editoral board and ownership is still the same scum.

    (B) AnotherDad actually got his ideas discussed deep behind enemy lines.

    He didn’t in this instance. AnotherDad literally wants “separate nations”. That’s not what Brooks means. If anything, according to Brooks’ options, my longstanding warning (if not original, yet leaving some commenters here aghast), combat, is becoming the most in line with the zeitgeist:

    Our politics is so nasty now because many people find the third mind-set most compelling.

    Of course, he gets the causation backwards, at least for Whites. More and more Whites are thinking “combat” because nasty politics directed toward them has been increasing.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  142. Thomas says:
    @Kratoklastes

    The JRE format appeals to mostly young, gymbro males: 71% male; average age 24; median income just north of \$50k (self-reported); roughly-even split between high school and university educated. That’s weird considering that ‘young working class males‘ as a demographic are usually thought of as Low-Attention-Span Central… although ProTip: they’re the least Pharma-medicated.

    Working class guys have long had something on to listen to while they’re working. In a previous generation, it would’ve been AM talk radio. Now, they take a bluetooth speaker to the job site or, especially with work that requires hearing protection, headphones.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  143. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    How do you like BJJ so far and how does your sibling like Judo?

    Like I wrote before, BJJ can be pretty “cerebral” (it’s a slower game than Judo), but nothing beats the feeling of hitting a throw and hitting your training partner with a planet in Judo. 😉

    My eldest son had been catching me a lot with Ippon seoi-nage lately… until he tore his shoulder:

    He’s been out of action for months and is now doing physical therapy… which is just as well since earlier I tore my right elbow ligaments and right trap muscle and herniated lower spine.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  144. J.Ross says:
    @JimDandy

    The central idea of the bit “Jesus is Magic” is that Christians are stupid, because religion is stupid, but that doesn’t apply to The Jewish People, because they’re a People, except when a gentile says so, in which case they go back to being a religion. She’s always been this way.

  145. Twinkie says:
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Despite some claims (Conor McGregor, Israel Adesanya) that Bruce can run over UFC; while he has the elite level power, fluidity and agility, he would not have a chance against to top bantam and featherweights, precisely because he lacks the grappling and ground skills

    Bruce Lee was a forerunner of MMA, but he was not an MMA fighter. He’d absolutely get smashed by a modern MMA professional fighter. That said, he had that MMA mentality of cross-training, so who knows how he’d have trained today. He certainly was an excellent athlete and put a lot of emphasis on attribute development for martial arts. In many ways, he was ahead of his time.

    Indeed, he cross-trained with “Judo” Gene LeBell and was very much aware of how effective grappling was. But he said that it wouldn’t look very good onscreen, so rarely showed it in his films.

    I wonder what he’d have said about today’s films such as John Wick that prominently feature grappling techniques:

  146. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    David Brooks is delusional here – he literally picks the absolutely worst, least likely and possible option among the four.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  147. J.Ross says:
    @SFG

    They have their army of rapefugees (and their spy nest of bureaucrats-teachers) in place, in both America and Europe, so they don’t need to proofread each pronoun. What have they got planned for the Ice Cream Man? Fake assassination by an evil Phantom Nazi? I derive no comfort from their relaxation.

  148. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Not to mention perennial iSteve favorite, Ramzan Kadyrov, President of Chechnya, holds a 5 dan in Kyokushin 極真 Karate.

  149. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    They would never get their hands on Bruce Lee to grapple in the first place.

  150. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    Darn. I’m really sorry to hear that. I hope you and your son get back in the saddle as soon as possible. The one that’s been doing Muay Thai has also been knocked out due to injury, too.

    It seems that the respective martial arts we’ve gravitating to reflect our personalities to a degree. So, I didn’t mention this earlier, but I did go to a couple of judo sessions some years, when I was living abroad. I obviously didn’t do it for long enough (wasn’t a conscious choice so much as lack of discipline during a series of life implosions) to form an intelligent opinion, hence why I asked you about both, so you’ll have to take this with a grain of salt. But I’m getting a certain adrenaline rush while I’m on the ground and subduing an struggling opponent that I suspect I wouldn’t get otherwise. Because you don’t have as much range of movement on the ground as you can standing up, you do get a slower pace with BJJ: and that allows you to take your time, pick your strategy from your database, and analyze what is happening even while you are grappling around on the floor. For whatever reason… yeah. You ever feel that something just “clicks”?

    My brother, by contrast, seems to have similar reaction to what you describe in throwing someone down Remembering our childhood together, this doesn’t surprise me it all-used to do wrestling, football throughout high school and college, etc. He’s always been a full-throttle dude, really into fast-paced, full-body attack: which is ironic, because outside of physical activity and finances, he’s an extremely sweet, gold-hearted guy in a way I’m not. (He also said that part of the attraction was due to liking the culture, for what that’s worth.) He has not gotten the chance to try BJJ. He recently bought a house and has a nasty commute until he can move in, so it’s going to be a while before I can get data to confirm this, but I wouldn’t be surprised if his reaction is an exact mirror image of mine.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  151. nebulafox says:
    @Thomas

    Podcasts tend to be extremely popular, particularly life-improvement and history (be careful with these, some just recite Wikipedia, some have ideological agendas, but the ones that are good are really good) stuff. If everybody is going to have their earbuds in anyway, they might as well be learning.

    For my part, I’m always going to prefer reading actual books when push comes to shove. But during a time when I was working a blue collar gig and I wasn’t in a mental state to read seriously, they were better than nothing, and they did teach me to actually listen for the first time in my life. They also did get me more seriously interested in history as an academic science (getting introduced to historiography, etc) when I rebounded and began to read again, in a way I wasn’t before.

    One of the advantages to manual labor over the service industry is that in the former, nobody cares if you have a vacant expression or are muttering to yourself or have your headphones on, or in certain contexts, have your nose in a book. You can think about physics or history while mopping a floor or carrying a box. It is much harder to do that-probably impossible-when you have a service job.

  152. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    Nothing like creating potential ethnic conflicts in the name of solving them.

    It’s retarded! Leaving aside the sheer lack of self-awareness of proposing in the context of a government that actively encourages racial resentment from some groups and gaslights or ignores attacks/discrimination against others: the point of assimilation in a multi-ethnic country is to create the kind of social cohesion that will let your society withstand the inevitable crises or hard times that come, the thing that actually does let people live peacefully together over the generations. That doesn’t grow from trees!

    Once again: the people who prize themselves on their supposed intellectualism are incapable of understanding the most basic facts about human nature.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Whiskey
  153. Mr. Blank says:

    I know the difference between the two just because Seth is the one who used to be a funny comedian that I liked, but I can see why people might get them c0nfused. I do it all the time with well-known people who have similar names.

    Unless I’m really, really interested in one or the other or both, I’m precisely the sort of person who will just blur people together if they have any features, names or otherwise, which can be easily confused. Both Rogen and Rogan occupy the “famous stoner guy roughly my age who says controversial stuff” place in my mind.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  154. Remember when Trump was a bigot for calling it the Chinese virus?

    U.S. to restrict travel from South Africa, 7 other countries as new Covid variant emerges

    In addition to South Africa, the affected countries are Botswana, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Lesotho, Eswatini, Mozambique and Malawi.

    Anyway, it’s eSwatini.The media have no respect for bLack aFrican orthographical preference.

  155. @nebulafox

    Once again: the people who prize themselves on their supposed intellectualism are incapable of understanding the most basic facts about human nature.

    They are not incapable. They are most capable of distorting those basic facts to fit their wishes. That’s what those extra IQ points are for.

    Such mental gymnastics take a lot of brain effort.

  156. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Twinkie

    I wonder what he’d have said about today’s films such as John Wick that prominently feature grappling techniques

    Bruce Lee finished Kareem Abdul-Jabbar with a choke in Game of Death (released in 1978).

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  157. @nebulafox

    unlike, say, Xinjiang

    I can be obliged to call out CCP shameless mendacity, case in example here…

    Same life, different treatment. Is this how justice works in a democracy? Speechless … pic.twitter.com/FmSlpPYABk— Hua Chunying 华春莹 (@SpokespersonCHN) November 22, 2021

    But you must know that the MSM narrative on Xinjiang is fake news. For its proximity to the Taliban and hotbeds of extremist Islam, PRC is basically as exposed to Islamic terrorism as Europe or America:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianjin_Airlines_Flight_7554
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_2014_Ürümqi_attack
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China

    And let’s be frank, Xinjiang since the time of Qing reconquest (1876–1877), serves as forward defense against — Russia

  158. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Before MMA homogenized a lot of martial arts, Kyokushin was the style of karate with a scary rep, because of their full contact sparring.

  159. nebulafox says:

    Well, if An Lushan didn’t… bit too late to think about “Xinjiang” not being “Xin”, I guess.

    I’m aware that not every ethnic minority in the PRC is treated like the Uighurs, and the basic difference tends to be whether there is a threat of separatism or not: whether Islamist inspired or not. Still, there have been a lot of old medieval buildings in Xinjiang that have been destroyed over the last decades, priceless cultural artifacts. The equivalent of this in Singapore would have been the PAP dismantling the Sultan Mosque or Sri Mariamman, and Singapore did have very real worries about communal violence with some hangovers that last to this day, i.e, one of many reasons why you don’t see Malay officers in the armed services. Mainland China is doing this *after* the period of economic growth and liberalization. They are doing this because they can do it, because they want to do it, and because they recognize the terrorist threat gives them cover to do so.

    Let me be clear: I am an amoral, ruthless bastard who could not care less what other countries do within their own borders, and who thinks funding “pro-democracy” stuff inside the borders of other countries-case in point, Hong Kong-is not only not the primary job of foreign policy, but extremely counterproductive for its stated purpose anyhow. But when the CCP tries to tap into woke energy or decide to register ham-handed comments about blacks, you’d better believe I’d exploit the hell out of that in the propaganda department, and leave a stinging lesson. Effectively, not stupidly like the New York Times or FOX would. One of the few trump cards after decades of hollowing out the US still has is soft power, which is a game Beijing isn’t used to playing yet, and it shows, yet we are too much of a mess to use it.

    Our current corporate elite, by contrast, is more compliant for Beijing than Washington’s requests. Can you imagine what would have happened had they had a similar relationship with the USSR during the Cold War?

    (As for the Russians, the USSR treated all religions equally terribly. Putin, despite his open embrace of Orthodox Christianity and old-time Russian nationalism, has always been careful to carve out a niche for non-Orthodox Christians in a way the Tsars never wholly did.)

  160. nebulafox says:
    @nebulafox

    BTW, not related, but something I thought I’d put out there: I think building a “xiaokang” society where the middle class is the priority instead of billionaires and the underclass waging a war against the middle is basically what the US should be doing, rather than continuing the rent seeking and economic hollowing out of the past 30 years. Minus the authoritarianism and social credit systems, of course, but I also don’t think the MSM in the West has the level of nuance to understand the hostile dynamics between Xi and Chinese oligarchs absent that anyhow.

    (Funnily enough, medieval Venice comes to mind as an example of a society that managed to do that more effectively than any other-it was an oligarchy, but one that completely lacked the sort of internal fissures that other states ran into, notably Genoa or Byzantium.)

    Ultimately, ideas are only kept afloat by the level of material, real world power you’ve got, not the other way around. I think the way the Cold War ended convinced our post-1990 bipartisan elite of the opposite, unfortunately.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  161. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Wow, that’s a horrendously bad strangle even for a movie!

    Didn’t he also escape an armbar by biting the leg in “Enter the Dragon”? Excellent way to get your arm snapped in real life.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  162. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Before MMA homogenized a lot of martial arts, Kyokushin was the style of karate with a scary rep, because of their full contact sparring.

    Except for the silly no punching to the face thing.

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    , @Dave Pinsen
  163. Twinkie says:
    @Mike Tre

    Trump* was a decent athlete in high school.

    I don’t think just participating (and hitting .138 at bat) counts as even “decent.” And his high school wasn’t exactly an athletic powerhouse.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/rogan-rogen/#comment-5029085

    If you were half the man of integrity you claim to be, you’d simply admit that you made the “never been much of an athlete” out of ignorance. But know-it-alls gotta know it all.

    But you go on with your silly ad hominem.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  164. Gunner says:
    @Sick 'n Tired

    Half the current SNL cast would walk off the episode if that Brando joke was told today.

  165. Whiskey says: • Website
    @Twinkie

    They do that to avoid fatalities during regular sparring. It really is brutal, anyone proficient in that art is a serious person not to be trifled with.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Twinkie
  166. Whiskey says: • Website
    @nebulafox

    No, its deliberate and the goal of the New Green Social Justice Utopia that several groups are building.

    No one should have any illusions. They hate you and want you dead.

  167. Whiskey says: • Website
    @nebulafox

    The utopia that our Elites are building are a black one. During Thanksgiving I had the TV on while cooking, the football games and the parade and the dog show. I only glanced randomly for a few minutes, but in my observation 100% of all TV shows and movies are 100% black. Black black black black black. All black all the time.

    So its a given that Whites will be the untouchables, the inferior caste/race in the West, and blacks the Master Race. Given to fits of racial vengeance, schizophrenia, bombastic posturing, and other things, mostly egged on constantly by people just like Seth Rogen. That’s it. It will only get worse and worse and worse. No one should have any illusions.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  168. @nebulafox

    Indeed. And illustrates the contrast between NS Germany and Japan. The former led by its most radical member, the latter led by bland bureaucrats like Tojo who suppressed radicals like Kanji.

    Kanji was a Pan-Asianist, fervent Nichiren Buddhist, and advocate for 世界最終戦論 Final Götterdämmerung between East and West*. He was a China dove and offered in 1937 to meet Chiang Kai-shek in person to de-escalate tensions.

    But ultimately he failed because 1. the opportunistic China hawks like Tojo and Konoe Fumimaro would win out, 2. The Chinese whether it be KMT or CCP, were not interested in his idea of East-West conflict.

    *Ironically, it would be his political rival, Tojo, who would launch the Pacific War.

    Equally interesting is his colleague Ōkawa Shumei (left), Kanji (right)

    View post on imgur.com

    Ōkawa was a proponent of the notion Sangoku 三國 Three Kingdoms, of India, China and Japan (the former two at the time were really not crazy about this idea), at the Tokyo Tribunal was called “Japanese Goebbels”, during the trial, kept hitting the head of Tōjō while shouting “Inder! Kommen Sie!” (Come, Indian!)

    View post on imgur.com


    And after the war completed the first Japanese translation of the Koran.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  169. nebulafox says:
    @Whiskey

    It’s cynical as all hell. The long term prognosis for Black America in New America isn’t good.

    So much of the current Blackophilia from our elites has “Mean Girls” vibes to it, as does other thrusts like “fat acceptance”. Intentional or not, I have no idea. But it does reflect the coming decline of black political power. The BLM chiefs will ensure they will be OK, living in affluent neighborhoods in the America they supposedly despise, before the clock strikes 12.

  170. @Abe

    Wow. That was some fabulous stream-of-conciousness writing, Abe. Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving!

  171. nebulafox says:
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Yeah, that’s why I don’t believe Imperial Japan was “fascist”. Fascism is a fundamentally revolutionary, not reactionary, movement. They were willing to co-opt old elites, but they demanded their subordination on political issues, and nobody doubted who was ultimately in charge. By contrast, Imperial Japan was dominated by the old elites who were radicalized, but kept power. Unlike several right wing dictatorships in the 1930s, they executed their own native fascist elements: Ikki Kita, etc. In the actual, revolutionary definition of fascism, in the desired subordination rather than dominance of old elites, Chiang Kai Shek comes closer.

    As for Ishiwara: he’s probably the only person in the entire history of the war that told the heads of state of not one, but two powers (Truman and Tojo) directly to go **** themselves at different points. And he got away with it, no less. His spiritual ideas were more than a bit wacky, but you do have to respect the fact that he truly believed what he said and couldn’t be bought, unlike most people, then and now. I’d sooner deal with an honest enemy than a simpering, false friend any day, which perhaps explains why I’m a lot harsher on America’s elites than the CCP.

    (Ironically… Corrupt people scare me less than true believers. But also, corrupt people can’t do things that true believers can. It’s a trade off. All things in life are.)

  172. @pyrrhus

    Tai Quan Do

    Nice spelling, Commie. Maybe you should take a hint from the Korean guy you replied to: taekwondo.

    jiu jitsu

    This should be “jujutsu”.

    The Chinese characters are
    柔術,
    and the Japanese syllabic writing for these characters is
    じゅうじゅつ.
    In the Latin alphabet, these should be transliterated as
    “jyu u jyu tsu”.
    Note that “ji + u” represents two sounds (じ う) while “jyu” represents one sound (じゅ).
    However, for English speakers, representing something that sounds like “jew” with j-y-u is confusing, so the y is often dropped and the sound written as “ju” instead of “jyu”. Likewise, English speakers don’t understand how to deal with a lengthened “juu” sound in Japanese, so the extra u is often dropped. That leaves you with “ju ju tsu”, but it’s one word, so “jujutsu” is acceptable but for ease of reading “ju-jutsu” is also acceptable. But if you write “ju-jutsu”, you should also write “ju-do” or “ken-do”, which nobody does.

    By the way, on the similarity of “jyu” and “jew”, I recommend this video…

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  173. @B36

    Congratulations!

    Your prizes are a page of obscure lyrics pulled from Neil Peart’s wastebasket, and a poke in the eye from Moe.

  174. @Whiskey

    Before MMA homogenized a lot of martial arts, Kyokushin was the style of karate with a scary rep, because of their full contact sparring.

    Except for the silly no punching to the face thing.

    They do that to avoid fatalities during regular sparring. It really is brutal, anyone proficient in that art is a serious person not to be trifled with.

    A visit to Tokyo and Seoul left the impression that Koreans held their blowfish chefs to seriously laxer standards.

  175. Kronos says:
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Taleb’s big on fasting. Everyone looks like crap if you haven’t eaten anything for three days.

  176. @Bardon Kaldian

    Sebastian Junger lost me when, in this interview, he named as a political hero Lynne Cheney.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  177. @Twinkie

    Back in the day, I studied in a shotokan dojo with a solidly “traditional” lineage (instructor trained by Ray Dalke). I think Dave is basically right. I don’t remember seeing kicks to the leg represented in any old manuals or practicing them in class. Kicks practiced in class were to the body.

    What we did have were leg-sweeping techniques used to unbalance and distract in sparring, although these were limited to the Kumite of shotokan’s three-K’s triad** (Kata-Kihon-Kumite). Also, while we practiced lunge punches in basics, nobody used them in sparring. These are good examples of the ways in which the no-contact or light-contact sparring used in sport karate or sport taekwondo fail to represent actual fighting. In no-contact sparring, kicks to the leg are pointless because they don’t score points or halt attacks like kicks to the body, and lunge punches are just too slow when you’re just trying to quickly snap your hand in the vicinity of someone’s head, even though they are clearly effective in full-contact.

    **I’m guessing that in these woke times, the KKK of karate isn’t taught anymore!!!

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    , @Twinkie
  178. Kronos says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    That too should be included in any meaningful graph demonstrating the various COVID conspiracy theories. The “bat soup” theory was the main story pushed by the US mainstream media for nearly a year. Theories regarding any lab leak were quickly censored/cancelled by Google, Twitter, etc…

    ZeroHedge got locked out of its Twitter account for going with the lab leak hypothesis in its website publication.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/dont-let-media-get-away-u-turning-lab-leak-theory

    The CCP (Chinese Communist Party) contends the virus originated from the US or some other non-China location.

    To map out most COVID theories will be akin to mapping out other theories regarding the JFK assassination and 9/11. It’s guaranteed to be a fun and exciting project.

  179. @Kronos

    Me too. I never watch Fox News on TV. Occasionally watch Tucker clips on YT when he has triggered the left. However, I always try to watch Mark Steyn clips for as long as they play. Gotta love Steyn. I wish he had a regular gig on TV or radio instead of his “Mark Steyn Club” which seems oriented toward vacuuming up dollars from aging Boomer-cons….

    https://www.youtube.com/c/FoxNews/search?query=steyn

    • Replies: @Cutler
  180. Kronos says:
    @I, Libertine

    I’ve found his interviews highly enjoyable. Yarvin’s based humor, knowledge/intelligence, and good nature presents those interviews with high re-listening value. There’s no such thing as a boring Yarvin interview. The stuff is funky fresh.

    https://www.owltail.com/people/ItW7i-curtis-yarvin/appearances

    For example, I’ve never been interested in the slightest with poetry. Whenever someone occasionally refers to a famous poem it typically blowed over my head and I never bothered researching it. Yet a Yarvin interview on a cheeky podcast titled “The Beautiful Toilet” substantially peaked my interest in the subject. The discussions were that good.

  181. Rogan is a weenie. Rogen is a ham.

  182. arono says:
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    In 1944 plotted with one time Kwantung Army Chief of Operations, Ishihara Kanji* to assassinate Tojo.

    had this happened after July 18, 1944, it would not have mattered.

  183. Jon says:
    @The Alarmist

    The funniest part of that interview, Zach asked Obama: “How does it fell to be America’s … last black president?”

  184. @AndrewR

    That was uncalled for, methinks. There is nothing wrong with avoiding popular culture, especially when that culture is as trashy as ours is.

  185. Jon says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    Vox does some stupid shit from time to time (like falling hard for QAnon), and he is a bit of a keyboard warrior, but at least he gets shit done. All I do is post sometimes witty comments on the internet, so I respect him for that.

  186. @Emil Nikola Richard

    Taleb looks rather fragile in that photograph to me.

    Having only 19% of one’s mug visible will do that…

  187. @Twinkie

    I’m sorry Bruce Lee wasn’t a talented enough martial arts actor for you, Twinkie.

  188. @Twinkie

    You were talking up Tae Kwon Do upthread. They have the same rule in sparring.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  189. @Chrisnonymous

    Leg kicks weren’t common in any karate styles before MMA, as far as I know. The old full contact karate/kickboxing league, the PKA, only allowed kicks above the waist. Bill “Super Foot” Wallace competed in it, and when the UFC launched, I recall a column he wrote (in Inside Karate, I think) saying they were a cheap technique that should be banned. One martial art that always had it was Wing Chun kung fu.

    As far as lunge punches, when I took karate, we had contact sparring (the rule in the dojo was you hit as hard as you get hit), and no one ever threw a lunge punch in sparring. I’ve never seen it in MMA either.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  190. @Harry Baldwin

    He should have mentioned King, Dr. King ….

  191. MEH 0910 says:
    @J.Ross

    https://nypost.com/2021/11/26/seth-rogen-roasted-for-downplaying-crime-in-los-angeles-as-life-in-big-city/


    [MORE]

  192. Cutler says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    Mark is on GB news in the UK on Fridays and occasionally fills in for Nigel Farage.

  193. @ScarletNumber

    For actual massive income-tax savings and greater personal freedom, Rogan ought to leave the country entirely and renounce his US citizenship. He’ll pay a big exit tax and then be free of the US regime’s bullshit.

    This may also be wise advice for productive freedom-loving people whose net worth and income are on a more mortal plane.

  194. @Emil Nikola Richard

    He’s smart to have done so. Nobody should die or murder innocent people far from our borders for this evil US regime. “Serving” in this military is volunteering for aggressive violence, not national defense, “Serving” the plutocrats who profit from the wars and occupations, not the American people.

  195. @nebulafox

    Putin knows that Russia desperately needs to make room for non-orthodox Christians to settle in Russia, because there are just aren’t many orthodox christians at all in the world outside Russia/Belarus/Ukraine. Due to pathetic Slavic birthrates in the past thirty years, inter alia, there just aren’t that many orthodox Slavs to re-gather under the Great Russian banner as immigrants to the RF.

    What Putin wants is eminently sensible: people who are racially similar and culturally compatible to most native ethnic Russians, I.e. Russian-speaking white and Eurasian people who are theists but do not belong to any hostile sect that can never be trusted to be loyal to Russia and the Russian people and mores when they gain the numbers to use force or deceit to impose their own interests and culture (Islam and Judaism).

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  196. Clyde says:
    @Kronos

    See Flux Woo on bitchute.com. for more information–
    D3 is one of the top anti-Covids and anti-virals. Get your D3 levels up to 90 ng/ml. Mine is above 70. Me via 10000 iu daily but 5000 will get you there too, over 2-3 months. Take K2 and mag. Glycinate w/ your D3 to enhance the D3 action. In this era of CCP-PLA virus releases, you need more D3 than what you get from pathetic multi-vitamins and from sunlight. More D3 that what you get from the Florida, California, etc. sun.

  197. Curle says:
    @I, Libertine

    Yarvin may have taken on Stratfordians at some point, but not in that article you link to. Perhaps you meant that he took on the anti-Stratfordians?

    His point is quite clear, people who become legends leave a small contemporary commentary footprint generally. He uses an ‘70s DJ as an example. He doesn’t, but could have added that this is particularly the case after the passage of four hundred years.

  198. Curle says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    “ It is hard. It means socializing with diverse and sometimes antagonistic groups rather than resting in the one that feels most at home.”

    But how are the spoils doled out?

  199. @Dieter Kief

    It might be rather this one: How cold it be that a professional ex-Kickboxer and comedian, who self- caracterises as “I don’t know shit, man” could have risen to the status he quite obviously has now in the US public sphere as one of the main – and rather trustworthy – dissenters?

    Rogan’s podcast flew under the radar for a long time – he was a meathead looking “bro” who did interviews with an eclectic mix of authors and public personalities for years and his audience was largely other “bros.” One day he would interview an elk hunting guide and talk for three hours about bowhunting experiences, and the next day he would interview a wacky political dissident like Alex Jones. He just didn’t attract the attention of the powers that be while his podcast audience became huge. Rogan got powerful before they noticed him, and therefore when they tried to co-opt him into service of the institutional left like they have been able to do with pretty much everyone else Rogan had the ability to say no. Attempts to destroy him have thus far been futile.

    • Agree: Sick 'n Tired
  200. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    I’m sorry Bruce Lee wasn’t a talented enough martial arts actor for you, Twinkie.

    Straw man. I never wrote such a thing. I was merely pointing out how poorly grappling was portrayed decades ago in martial arts films (unlike today).

    You were talking up Tae Kwon Do upthread.

    Where? Point it out for me.

    They have the same rule in sparring.

    I find today’s TKD contest rules even sillier than Kyokushin Kumite rules.

    That said, back when I first learned TKD in the 1970’s (earned my first degree black belt at Kukiwon, the World Takwondo Federation HQ, in front of the old masters), the practice and contests of TKD were much more aggressive than today:

    My old instructor in Korea wanted me to finish every fight in tournaments by KO. And I was a child back then.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    , @Johann Ricke
  201. J.Ross says:
    @Kronos

    Is it conspiracy theory when we have documents and admissions? What we don’t have — pretty much the only thing we don’t have — is whether this was Satanically malicious or well-intentioned and arrogant incompetence. The closest thing to “conspiracy theory” would be Israel, Sweden, England, Singapore, Korea, Japan and India all lying in co-ordination to make Pfizer look bad.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  202. @Twinkie

    You used Joe Rohan’s Tae Kwon Do background to help establish his martial arts bona fides.

    Are you going to acknowledge you were talking out of your hat about leg kicks in Shotokan?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  203. Twinkie says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    I don’t remember seeing kicks to the leg represented in any old manuals or practicing them in class. Kicks practiced in class were to the body.

    What we did have were leg-sweeping techniques used to unbalance and distract in sparring, although these were limited to the Kumite of shotokan’s three-K’s triad** (Kata-Kihon-Kumite). Also, while we practiced lunge punches in basics, nobody used them in sparring.

    Yes and no. Shotokan doesn’t have full-power strikes to the legs that Kyokushin or Muay Thai/Dutch-style kickboxing do, but there are strikes to the leg. But this topic is just a tad bit more complex than “present or no.” Likewise, Oi-zuki (lunge punch) is used in sparring or contests, but it is true that it is less often used than Gyaku-zuki, mainly because Oi-zuki is far less powerful and more “awkward” to throw. However, Oi-zuki shouldn’t be thrown “naked” – it is much more effective and useful when combined with a kick to the body or leg. Let’s rewind the tape:

    Lyoto Machida learned Karate from his father and old time Shotokan master, Machida Yoshizo from Japan, who emigrated to Brazil. In fact, Lyoto’s older brother Chinzo was a one-time Shotokan Karate world vice champion (that is, runner-up). The Machidas are old Shotokan through and through (down to the bad habit of pulling back the Hikite hand to the waistline after throwing a punch, even in MMA, which comes from pulling the opponent’s sleeve down with the non-power hand to throw him/unbalance him).

    At 1:11 mark of the above video, you can see Shotokan practitioners demonstrating the front kick (to the body, usually to the stomach) followed by an Oi-zuki to the head. At 1:30 mark, you can see Lyoto Machida using the exact same combination in a Shotokan contest. From 1:40 to 2:18, you can see him using the exact same combination on multiple opponents (he knocks down Rashad Evans with that same combo in the third footage). *I* was also taught this exact same combination when I trained in Shotokan in Japan. Also, from 2:18 to 2:36, you can see the same combo + additional Gyaku-zuki added at the end, demonstrated first and then being used in MMA.

    When I referred earlier to throwing a low kick-same side punch combo, this was what I meant – that by throwing a kick to the lower part of the body or the leg (Dutch-style kickboxing or Muay Thai prefer actual power kicks to the leg), you prompt the opponent to drop his hand to deflect or block the kick, making it much easier to score a clean hit to the head with a punch.

    And you are correct that Shotokan leg kicks tend to be sweeps or techniques designed to unbalance the opponent (to open him up for further attacks). Again, in the above footage, from 2:36, you can see a calf kick being used (usually in conjunction with a high punch, either punch-kick or kick-punch).

    And finally, at 3:38 mark, you see both of these combos being combined in a tournament fight: kick to the stomach, lunge punch, calf kick, and reverse punch to the downed opponent.

    Also, this wasn’t directed at me, but…

    This should be “jujutsu”.

    You are correct that the proper transliteration from Japanese to English is “Jujutsu.” However, Brazilian Jiujitsu is now a Brazilian cultural import, not a Japanese one and the Brazilians spell it “Jiujitsu.” For this reason, too, a practitioner of BJJ is not called a “Jujutsuka,” but a “Jiujiteiro” per Brazilian Portuguese.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  204. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    You used Joe Rohan’s Tae Kwon Do background to help establish his martial arts bona fides.

    Who is “Joe Rohan”? Is he from the Middle Earth?

    This is what I wrote about Joe Rogan:

    I understand the skepticism about Joe Rogan’s fighting ability. Hollywood has a lot of poseurs. But Rogan’s the real deal. His old TKD school in Mass. was pretty hardcore, he did a lot of kickboxing/Muay Thai training after his TKD competition days, and he is a legit 10th Planet BJJ black belt. Eddie Bravo doesn’t hand out black belts willy-nilly.

    I also wrote that Rogan was a Mass. state TKD champ.

    What does that have anything to do with what I think about Kyokushin Kumite or TKD Si-Hap rules?

    Are you going to acknowledge you were talking out of your hat about leg kicks in Shotokan?

    If anybody is not acknowledging things and coming up with straw men arguments, it’s you. You didn’t even respond to my comment here: https://www.unz.com/isteve/rogan-rogen/#comment-5029085

    As for leg kicks, I wrote a detailed response to another commenter above. Read that if you actually want to understand what I referred earlier to the street fight footage.

    Look, I get that you are salty from my comment eons ago about your physique (which was in response to your comment about high-level Judo competitors being “sloppy”), but does that have to color every response you write to me? To the point that you try to twist things I write, so you can play “gotcha” game with straw men?

  205. @Curle

    Shakespeare did leave a contemporary commentary footprint. Robert Greene (arguably the model for Falstaff) bitched about him and so did Ben Jonson. He was occasionally praised in print by critics. The man who wrote Shakespeare’s plays was obviously a theater professional, which is apparent from the texts, and he knew and idolized Kit Marlowe, which is also clear from the texts.

    • Replies: @Curle
  206. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Leg kicks weren’t common in any karate styles before MMA, as far as I know.

    What? “Any Karate style”? Kyokushin has been known for power kicks to the leg from the beginning.

    Watch the first match. The Japanese competitor only throws about 6 inside leg kicks in a row (one of it checked beautifully by his opponent) before eating a high kick from his opponent and going down. I am pretty sure the 1970’s was waaaaaay before MMA.

    As far as lunge punches, when I took karate, we had contact sparring (the rule in the dojo was you hit as hard as you get hit), and no one ever threw a lunge punch in sparring. I’ve never seen it in MMA either.

    You clearly don’t watch much MMA. See the video footage in my reply to the other commenter (that’s the second time I posted that footage). Lunge punch galore.

    And I learned those same combos when I trained in Shotokan in *Japan.*

  207. nebulafox says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    Lol.

    >柔

    So, this kanji has another pronunciation: “nyu”. Why? Because the word was imported twice over: this less common translation comes from a earlier period in Chinese history than the standardized kan’on stuff. The Japanese, being their organized selves, preserved both meanings sometimes…

    Here’s a cool little example of drawing tangential connections between language influences: the Vietnamese version of this word, “nhu”, sounds a lot like this second Japanese pronunication, despite the fact that Chinese loanwords didn’t start getting introduced into Vietnamese until the kan’on era in Japan, centuries later, when relations between the Tang court and what is now Northern Vietnam (Vietnamese didn’t migrate south until wayyyy later) got more intensive. This is conjecture, but I suspect the reason for this is because the go-on words are not influenced by Mandarin, but other dialects: and the hint is in the subtle Japanese characterization between “Wu sounds” and “Han sounds”. Naturally, Vietnam was in much closer proximity to non-Mandarin speaking Chinese than Mandarin speakers, so…

    Yeah, yeah, I’m a bit anal… but this is fun!

  208. @Vinnyvette

    I admire Bruce for his athleticism, discipline, and above all, salesmanship. But there’s no point to put him on a unrealistic pedestal, for example

    https://mmachannel.com/bruce-lee-vs-mike-tyson-who-would-win-in-a-fight/

    Iron Mike knows Bruce has so many fans so will say some flattering things, but this is a ridiculous comparison to begin with. Bruce should be benchmarked with comparable weight class. I’d say he’s elite level in boxing or kickboxing, but would have difficulty against Conor or Floyd Mayweather for his lack of reach.

    Then there’s this,

    https://www.sportscasting.com/dana-white-calls-bruce-lee-the-father-of-mma-but-he-actually-rejected-the-style/

    This is obviously bogus, Dana White will say this for marketing (he has 1.4 billion reasons to do so). The father of MMA is more fittingly, Founder of Judo
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanō_Jigorō

    and, BJJ pioneer and prizefighter
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsuyo_Maeda

    On the other hand Jeet Kune Do is only practiced by a few in MMA, and Chinese traditional Kung Fu*, not at all. The PLA and PRC MMA scene trains in Sanda 散打, synthesis of Manchurian wrestling and Japanese kickboxing**.

    *Japanese martial arts has its component in Kata 型 Form, kung fu simply take this to extremes
    **An obscure fact that the CCP does not care to publicize

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  209. @Twinkie

    That said, back when I first learned TKD in the 1970’s (earned my first degree black belt at Kukiwon, the World Takwondo Federation HQ, in front of the old masters), the practice and contests of TKD were much more aggressive than today:

    My old instructor in Korea wanted me to finish every fight in tournaments by KO. And I was a child back then.

    Thanks for confirming that at least with respect with taekwondo, tournaments have really throttled back what is permissible vis-a-vis full contact strikes. My guess is that bad publicity and/or insurance issues from participants being sent to the ER prompted the imposition of these limits.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  210. Kronos says:
    @J.Ross

    I never use “conspiracy theory” as a derogatory slur. I use it in the Turkish sense akin to a intellectual sport.

  211. nebulafox says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Putin’s attitude toward Russia’s Jews (well, what’s left of them) and Muslims isn’t unfriendly. His immigration policies concerning Tajiks and related Muslims is more reminiscent of Bush II than Trump, if you get what I mean. He’s even on record as stating Orthodox Christianity (or his version of it) has more in common with Islam than the kind of bien-pensant Christianity normative among Western elites. Though, to be fair, that’s just Unitarianism in all but name.

    The Tsarist empire was always a multi-ethnic construct going way back, and some of the older minorities (Germans, Muslim Tatars, Siberians) got along with the Tsarist regime well for the most part. However, toward the end of the monarchy, the state’s policies began to make it impossible for non-Orthodox Christians, even ones with more long-standing history of serving Russia than the more recently acquired Poles or Jews, to identify with the Russian state in the way non-Catholics could still identify with the profoundly Catholic Habsburgs.

  212. @Intelligent Dasein

    I just got on to this thread due to “who the F are these guys again?” curiosity. So, yeah, AGREED.

  213. Curle says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Agreed. But, the anti-Stratfordian commentaries include 1) the existent contemporaneous commentary isn’t big enough for his reputation; or 2) they all knew it was someone else operating under a pen name. Yarvin’s not making an anti-Stratfordian comment he’s making an pro-Stratfordian comment when he says the contemporaneous commentary need not be large to with those who eventually become legends.

  214. Curle says:
    @nebulafox

    “ Our current corporate elite, by contrast, is more compliant for Beijing than Washington’s requests. Can you imagine what would have happened had they had a similar relationship with the USSR during the Cold War?”

    Like this?

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1091037.The_Best_Enemy_Money_Can_Buy

  215. @Alden

    Homesteads in Florida can’t be confiscated if you lose a lawsuit.

  216. @nebulafox

    Thanks. On the specific issue of Uyghurs, it’s important to emphasize for Mr. Sailer’s audience that there’s definitely oppression taking place, but mainly about The Religion of Peace, not so much ethnicity or race.

    There was significant bad blood enough already between Hui and Han, two groups that are ethnically identical, except the former bans pork, the latter, the word for meat 肉 ròu is used interchangeably with pork 豬肉 zhūròu

    The average Chinese person eats roughly 20 more pounds of pork per year than their American counterpart, with China producing over four times more pork than the U.S., or close to half of the world’s supply.

    https://theconversation.com/could-chinas-strategic-pork-reserve-be-a-model-for-the-us-139949

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Chrisnonymous
  217. @nebulafox

    There’s a considerable parallel between Kievan Rus and Song China. Both were less multi-ethnic, territorially aggressive, and less despotic states. And with Mongol Invasion significantly altered the character of both countries.

    Sino-Russian relationship is termed in Sinosphere 千年鄰居 Thousand Year Neighbor. Referring to continuity back to Sino-Mongol relationship.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  218. Twinkie says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Thanks for confirming that at least with respect with taekwondo, tournaments have really throttled back what is permissible vis-a-vis full contact strikes.

    Ugh, I almost was expelled from my first TKD school in the U.S. The first time I sparred, I went the way I was taught in Korea back then and the instructor screamed at me and told me he’d strip my black belt and throw me out of the school for going too hard. Thankfully, the Judo club I joined in the U.S. was full of Russians and had the same intensity as East Asia. During my first Randori, I went for a lazy Uchi-mata and this Russian kid Ura-nage’d (suplexed) me right onto my head. My father was all, “Hmm, we found the right club.”

    In Japan, several kids die each year from Judo. The schools/instructors basically reply, “Very sorry, but your child should have learned Ukemi (safe falling) better.” And the Japanese courts consistently rule against the few parents who bring lawsuits.

    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
  219. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    there’s definitely oppression taking place, but mainly about The Religion of Peace

    Which one? Mo’s, or Mao’s?

  220. Twinkie says:
    @Whiskey

    They do that to avoid fatalities during regular sparring.

    That doesn’t make sense at all since Kyokushin allows head kicks and those are far more dangerous than punches to the head.

    It really is brutal

    Yes, the brutality of Kyokushin training is legendary, but that doesn’t change the fact that omitting punches to the head is silly and provides its practitioners with bad habits that are liable to get them KOd by those who do practice head punches.

    I don’t know how accurate this is, but it does provide some possible explanations: http://the-martial-way.com/why-kyokushin-fighters-do-not-punch-to-the-face/

  221. Twinkie says:
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    The PLA and PRC MMA scene trains in Sanda 散打, synthesis of Manchurian wrestling and Japanese kickboxing**.

    You know about Xu Xiaodong, I assume? If not, go on YouTube and enjoy the fruits of his labor (of beating up those who claim to be traditional Chinese martial arts masters). He was a Sanda fighter until he found BJJ and MMA.

  222. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    Lucky for Xu that the kinds of people in China likely to be into MMA are also the likeliest to know how to use a VPN.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  223. @Twinkie

    There used to be a semi-reputable journal called Journal of Asian Martial Arts that published scholarly and pseudo-scholarly articles on martial arts. The periodic articles on history of Chinese martial arts showed that “traditional Chinese martial arts masters” basically don’t exist. Probably, between weird aspects of Chinese culture and the destruction of the Communist cultural revolution, we will never know how effective really traditional Chinese martial arts were or even what they were exactly.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  224. nebulafox says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Honestly, if you pinned me down and forced me to choose, I’d go with Mo’s over Mao’s oppression, and it’s not even a contest. In practice, the former tends to be more concerned with external protocol than what you actually believe, whereas the latter actually wants to shape you into a new human being.

    (“Better than Maoism” shouldn’t be confused with a ringing endorsement, for the more obtuse readers of this.)

    America’s managerial elites want to mix the absolute worst aspects of Mao-era China (lynch mobs, selective deployment of police, utopian dreams that aren’t content with mere compliance) with the absolute worst aspects of contemporary China (social credit system, managerial extra-judicial tactics to destroy your life, mandarinate for upwardly aspirant youth). That these are the same people who can’t even build a train line extension in their own capital in 40 years is proof that we live in clown world.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  225. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Understand your point, but still feel antagonistic toward PRC. We don’t oppose ChiComms because they oppose Mohammedans (or any other religious/ethnic minority within traditional Han territory) but because they are a totalitarian modernistic leveling regime that poses a threat to lifestyles of people who want to live separate from its dominance.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  226. nebulafox says:
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Song China was much more centralized, though, and could draw on Tang-era traditions. That helped them resist the Mongols a lot longer than the fragmented ‘Rus.

    >Referring to continuity back to Sino-Mongol relationship.

    It’d have to refer to that, because the Russians didn’t make contact with China until well into the Qing period. And that’d go both ways, if it is the case that the Mongols and Russians are conflated in Chinese pop history. At the height of the Sino-Soviet split, Soviet propaganda depicted the thoroughly Han (Xiang representing once again!) Mao Zedong as a new Genghis Khan, among other “Yellow Peril” laden themes.

    (The story of the Russian colonization of Siberia is fascinating because it illustrates more than anything else the authoritarian but limited control that Russia’s rulers often had over their country and their heavy reliance on strategic partnerships with others. All the stuff about autocracy was meant to counteract the practical difficulties of ruling over such a sprawling landmass without easy water-born communications. This contrasts sharply with the Chinese experience, and I do believe it does reflect in the differences in the two country’s political cultures to this day.)

  227. @Twinkie

    I don’t know Lyoto Machida, but from Machida Yoshizo’s bio on their website, his birthdate and history put him in the same generation as Ray Dalke and, thus, Lyoto Machida in the same generation as my dojo’s instructor. We were taught the same front-kick-lunge-punch combo you were (in Kihon training) but as I said nobody used it in sparring. Even as a green belt, I could easily defend against black belts coming in with lunge punch. It’s too unstable in point-sparring setting. However, in full contact everything is different…

    Brazilian Jiujitsu is now a Brazilian cultural import, not a Japanese one and the Brazilians spell it “Jiujitsu.” For this reason, too, a practitioner of BJJ is not called a “Jujutsuka,” but a “Jiujiteiro” per Brazilian Portuguese.

    I don’t know. This sounds a lot like my socialist academic acquaintances insisting I say “CHEE-lay” for Chile and “MEH-hee-ko” for Mexico (but never “DOYTS-lahnd” for Germany!). Is BJJ “Brazilian jiujitsu” or “jiujitsu brasileiro”? If “jiujitsu” is a Brazilian import, why do we need the modifier “Brazilian”? (Nobody says “Let’s eat Mexican tacos” although they do say “Let’s eat Brazilian barbecue” because “barbecue” isn’t a Brazilian loan word.) If it’s a Brazilian version of the Japanese martial art jujutsu, why do we need to use the Brazilian bastardization of the Latinized word? If it’s not a Brazilian version of the Japanese martial art jujutsu, what is it?

    Also, in Japan, nobody says “~~ka”. Saying “I’m a judoka” is like saying “I’m a judo expert”. Not done. In the USA, we should say “I’m a student of ~~” or “I practice ~~”, not “I’m a ~~ka” or “I’m a ~~eiro”.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  228. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    I really don’t get Chinese government thinking on this one. They have no problem adopting Western and Japanese technology to make its country strong. What’s wrong with adopting Western and Japanese fighting techniques to make its people competitive in the world of real fighting? Seems like the Chinese elites are just shooting the messenger in Xu Xiadong. Do they want the ordinary Chinese to continue to study fantasy martial arts and get their asses kicked by non-Chinese?

  229. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    They are politicians. Don’t overestimate them.

    (Some things about human nature never change, regardless of what culture you are in, and that includes what modern adolescent males tend to find “cool”. How do you think guys who are already interested in MMA are going to respond to the fact that stodgy bureaucrats think it is “low class” and give it an “underground” reputation? Especially when these are the same people that have sucked all the joy out of young adulthood, from the mandarinate pressure they’ve been dealing with all their lives to more recent lockdown policies?)

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  230. nebulafox says:
    @nebulafox

    “They are politicians. Don’t overestimate them.”

    You know, when it comes to our dealings with them (and with foreign nations in general), this single fact gives me both the most hope and the most fear, simultaneously.

  231. nebulafox says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    I favor getting America back into a position of strength, then detente on a bipolar co-equal world model, similar to the old relationship with the USSR. The PRC, in many ways, has far more potential power than they ever did. That’s just reality, it doesn’t go away because Washington chooses to live in the past. I could not care less about democracy in China, because I couldn’t care less about what foreign countries do, when it doesn’t concern the United States. That’s their business. If we believe our model is best, time will prove us right, and we need not worry about anything other than maintaining temporal strength. (And since the CCP believes in deterministic historical materalism with each country finding its own road to socialism, theoretically, no problems, right?)

    What I care about is the fact that if things don’t change soon, the CCP-a foreign power-could have the power to dictate the lives of Americans, in everything from labor policy to censorship to life quality. Does anybody here think that our elites wouldn’t find that a great deal, as long as that meant they got their petty whims catered to? Why should the US go the way of the Qing or Byzantium or the USSR due to the failings of one generation of managerial elites? That’s unacceptable to me, simply as an American citizen, nothing more. Whether a bunch of Ivy educated degenerates who can’t wipe their own asscracks find that acceptable is of no consequence to me. They are little worms who rely on a perch to obscure what they truly are. They’ve already lost legitimacy. People just haven’t realized it yet.

    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  232. @Reg Cæsar

    Mohammedans (Mao “Revolution comes from barrel of a gun” does not even nominally espouse pacifism).

    There’s definitely veracity, if vastly hyperbolized, in the Uyghur detention camps reports. But the impression that is related to Uyghurs being partly Caucasoid is totally unfounded. There have been Caucasoidal people (like An Lushan) since time immemorial in Chinese history, and are just referred to in neutral terms (https://www.unz.com/proems/america-is-a-nation-of-hate/#comment-4967375)

    It’s should be emphasized that PRC was a derivative state founded by the USSR. And until Stalin’s death in 1953, Mao was his subordinate. Xinjiang (as well as Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria) were in a sense bequeathments from Stalin*.

    As you know, Xinjiang and Central Asia, is fulcrum point of the Great Game between Britain, Russia and Qing in 19th CE. By 1940’s, Soviets had largely controlled Xinjiang as a satellite, as the KMT was fighting the Japanese, and CPC was still nascent.

    When CPC had prevailed in the Chinese Civil War (1945-9), a deal was cut between Mao and Stalin to hand Xinjiang to PRC. Needless to say making this omelet required “breaking some eggs”. And there are clandestine details that are only recently unveiled from Russian and Chinese archives.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_East_Turkestan_Republic#Absorption_by_the_People’s_Republic_of_China

    *This required some firm negotiation on Mao’s part; he attended Stalin’s 70th birthday 1950 in Moscow, when felt brushed off, overstayed his visit to show that he was serious.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  233. Twinkie says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    I don’t know Lyoto Machida

    He’s only the most famous Shotokan Karateka ever, having been the UFC light heavyweight champion and the real-life Karate Kid, having done this to Randy Couture on his retirement fight:

    We were taught the same front-kick-lunge-punch combo you were (in Kihon training) but as I said nobody used it in sparring. Even as a green belt, I could easily defend against black belts coming in with lunge punch.

    With all due respect, I don’t know what kind of black belts you were training with. I’ve seen a whole wide spectrum, from high-level internationally competitive black belts in Japan who could hit me with everything under the sun and make me look foolish to McDojo black belts in the U.S. who couldn’t punch their way out of a paper bag.

    Did you not see, in the video I linked above, Machida knocking down Rashad Evans, at the time the UFC light heavyweight champ, with that very front kick + lunge punch combo? And do you know what can happen when you “evade” that lunge punch? You get thrown (at 4:47 mark of that clip). Or try this:

    Note that Kuzushi-Waza can be done from a missed Gyaku-Zuki or Oi-zuki, depending on the position of the opponent or the attacker’s entry.

    Also, in Japan, nobody says “~~ka”. Saying “I’m a judoka” is like saying “I’m a judo expert”. Not done. In the USA, we should say “I’m a student of ~~” or “I practice ~~”, not “I’m a ~~ka” or “I’m a ~~eiro”.

    I trained at the Kodokan. I know that Judo competitors/athletes are called Judo-senshu (選手) in Japan (though notable ones are still referred to as Judoka/柔道家: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/柔道家一覧). But in most countries, they are referred to as Judoka while Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu competitors are called Jiujiteiros. The point is that you call a Brazilian martial art the way Brazilians want it called, even if it has a Japanese origin.

    In Korea, Judo is pronounced “Yudo” (유도). Meanwhile, even though there is a perfectly fine Korean word for (Japanese) Jujutsu/Yawara called “Yusul” (유술), Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is called “Joojitsoo” (주짓수).

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  234. @Twinkie

    Definitely. Xu has his own Youtube channel where he does some edgy anti-CPC takes. He also has a entertaining trash-talking rivalry with his Taiwanese counterpart, former ROC marine Holger Chen 館長, (right) who’s challenged him to come to Taiwan.

    View post on imgur.com


    Fact is still that Xu has hardly been tested in the ring/octagon. The top PRC talent is currently Hu Yaozong (https://www.instagram.com/hu.yaozong/), who’s dead last in UFC heavyweight division (but hey still something)

    The debunking of the traditional Kung Fu is well overdue. The problem was always the Chinese mid-brow cultural scene, Jin Yong’s wuxia novels, Shaolin, Crouching Tiger movies that relied on wires/special effects, put Chinese martial arts on an unrealistic pedestal.

    The reality is Ming Chinese general Qi Jiguang 戚繼光 (1528-88) in his war against the wokou, trained with Japanese tactics and weapons (even copying the katana), and was clearly on par with the wokou, its portrayed here, by Bruce’s former colleague Yasuaki Kurata with Vincent Zhao,

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @anon
  235. Twinkie says:
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Fact is still that Xu has hardly been tested in the ring/octagon.

    I think he got wrecked during sparring when he showed up at a Muay Thai gym. Xu is an amateur-level fighter at best in MMA, which makes all his easy victories against Tai Chi “masters” all the more embarrassing.

    The top PRC talent is currently Hu Yaozong (https://www.instagram.com/hu.yaozong/), who’s dead last in UFC heavyweight division (but hey still something)

    Hey now, China had – ever so briefly – a UFC champ in Zhang Weilli. And Song Yadong is a decent up-and-comer (though he now trains with Team Alpha Male in SoCal).

  236. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    Darn. I’m really sorry to hear that. I hope you and your son get back in the saddle as soon as possible.

    When you do Judo, injuries are a part of life. Travis Stevens, who is an Olympic silver medalist in Judo, said that he pretty much broke every bone in his body doing Judo, but hasn’t had a single serious injury doing BJJ for years. His coach, Jimmy Pedro, two-time Olympic medalist and world champion, also dealt with a near career-ending spinal injury from Judo (from a match in Korea).

    John Danaher, trainer and coach to both Gordon Ryan and GSP, said that the most catastrophic injuries at his gym have been all from throws and takedowns (rather than leg locks/Ashi-garami).

    He also said that part of the attraction was due to liking the culture, for what that’s worth.

    Judo is extremely honor-bound. The two mottos of Judo are “Maximum efficiency” and “Mutual benefit.” Very Japanese. BJJ culture is very Brazilian. That means some negative things – high PED use, corruption/skullduggery in competitions, lots of organizational infighting, commercial-orientation, occasionally thuggery (Thug-jitsu), etc. – but also some positives such as MMA/street fighting-orientation, warmer, less hierarchical relationships with coaches and training partners, and a more family-like atmosphere at gyms.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  237. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    I suppose that’s part of why BJJ’s popularity has exploded across America, especially given the decline of other sports. My brother has been doing contact sports all his life (he entered after recovering from a rugby concussion), so I don’t think he’s under illusions about the injury risk. We’re both starting out too old to compete on any serious level, so neither of us has much ego investment in this: which is good, because if one thing does lead to injury, it’s treating your body like it is 18 and being doing this for a decade when it isn’t and it hasn’t.

    I’ve noticed the cultural gap, particularly when it comes to the sheer commercialization of BJJ. The irony is, while the fighting styles fit us, the atmosphere is a mismatch. My brother is the laid-back, “a dolce vida” one, I’m the one who has been obsessed with optimizating outcomes for myself and others. But in a way, that works out better, because both address the character flaws we need to address.

    >The point is that you call a Brazilian martial art the way Brazilians want it called, even if it has a Japanese origin.

    It’s more accurate considering both the history of BJJ, and the fact that the descendants of Japanese immigrants in Brazil are entirely Brazilianed anyway.

    This probably just reflects my obsession with languages, but I think the Japanese and Portuguese languages really “fit” judo and BJJ well, respectively. I don’t mean just in the hierarchy discrepancy, I mean in how they sound and roll off the tongue… I’m probably not communicating this well, but there you go.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  238. nebulafox says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    The reason the PRC treats Uighurs and Tibetans the way they do is because they pose a threat of separatism, and in the case of the former, this coincides with Islam. Given China’s pre-1949 proximate history and the immense human costs that the fractured political state of China at the time caused, it’s not hard to see why the CCP reacts the way they do to the merest hint of possible domestic dissolution. In the end, they care a lot more about that than anything else, us included.

    The history of Xinjiang is really quite fascinating, especially during the first half of the 20th Century.

    Minorities who don’t get better treatment: including “autonomous” regions. The province of Guangxi, which borders Vietnam (border cities like Nanning and Dongxing will have some degree of dual lingual signage with Vietnamese), has ethnic Zhuang as 1/3rd of the population, and is probably the best example of this. The exotic presence of the Zhuang is one of the reasons why Guilin is such a popular domestic tourist trap, apart from the karst peaks-turns out I’m allergic: ended up puking blood and shitting my guts out partly thanks to them!-and the pagodas.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @Chrisnonymous
  239. nebulafox says:
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Mao wasn’t Ulbricht or Kim Il-Sung, though: unlike most satellite leaders, Mao had led his own revolution and was in power thanks to his own military, not Stalin’s. (The only other Communist leader that could claim something remotely similar was Tito, and I don’t think it’s an accident that he’s the one in Europe who fell out with Stalin.) He had his own agenda and had the potential to escape the Soviet orbit. Given how long Stalin had been dealing with Chiang Kai-Shek and his rather prickly branch of nationalism, I doubt he’d have been surprised at this, especially given Communist strength in Manchuria, which had recently had tons of industry (what was left when the Japanese were gone) looted by the Russians. Whatever the propaganda claims were, the underlying reality between the two regimes was tenser.

    The tensions between the two would have a very interesting end result… in Korea of all places. Stalin greenlit and sped along Kim’s invasion because he wanted a way to ensure that Mao couldn’t invade Taiwan. The Chinese didn’t have the amphibious and air forces after the civil war needed to launch an invasion independently. But once they did, there’s little doubt they would make quick work of what was left of the KMT… meaning the Soviets wouldn’t have as much leverage over the PRC. And for Mao, finishing the civil war was the main, overriding priority of his regime at that stage-dangling that carrot was key to keeping him in line. What better way of putting that off, and putting him closer to Moscow, than a conflict in Korea that put his new and unconsolidated regime at risk?

  240. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    I suppose that’s part of why BJJ’s popularity has exploded across America

    BJJ’s popularity has exploded across America, because it was a big part of the early development of MMA in the United States. BJJ training is still an important component of MMA training.

    Secondarily, BJJ is a much more commercially viable recreational martial art due to low impact on the body. It also lends itself well to “office workers” since ground grappling is a slower game and more “cerebral” (less attribute-dependent). You see all sorts of less-than-muscular, “nerdy”-looking guys in BJJ with tricky leglock games… the kind of guys who would absolutely get smashed by the superior athleticism of Judoka or wrestlers in the latter domains.

    At the same time, due to this very commercialization, there is more money in BJJ than Judo in America. BJJ has professional competitions with sizable monetary compensation and retired athletes can earn a living by coaching and instructing.

    One other aspect of BJJ vs. Judo that is different in the U.S. is that, traditionally, we Americans have been very weak in Judo. Even Canada has a better national team than we do. The U.S. has never had a male Olympic gold medalist in Judo (which my eldest son hopes to remedy in 2028) and only one among females (Kayla Harrison, two times).

    A lot of American wrestlers mock Judo, precisely because American wrestlers are brought up in a very intense school athletic development environment whereas Judo is a niche private club sport here (outside Hawaii where it is in the school system). So, when the former run into Judo practitioners in the U.S., they are not exactly dealing with the cream of the crop, but niche hobbyists. They don’t realize the intensity and level of Judo training in Europe and Asia, where they are more popular than wrestling and command the commensurate talent pools and national resources (more countries field Judo teams than wrestling teams at the Olympics).

    Judo – which was once the most popular martial art in America – is dying in the U.S. and BJJ is the final nail in its coffin here… all of which is a crying shame especially since BJJ itself, in its sport incarnation, is becoming a sillier combat art with people flopping to the guard and looking for sweeps (for points) and maybe leglocks.

    And, parenthetically, Sambo (Russian version of Judo) never took hold in the U.S. or anywhere outside the former Soviet bloc.

  241. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    The reason the PRC treats Uighurs and Tibetans the way they do is because they pose a threat of separatism

    Exactly and concisely. PRC leadership is totally allergic to anything that smacks of even a tiny hint of separatism. It is pretty generous to minorities that are not oriented that way and are seen to be loyal (e.g. ethnic Koreans).

  242. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    Again, while I won’t make excuses for CCP policy concerning Xinjiang, to pretend that the CCP’s fears about separatism come out of nowhere and have no rational roots in China’s immediate pre-1949 history is stupid. Also, as usual, I’m deeply skeptical about the real agenda behind the moralistic drumbeat of the corporate media on… well, anything, but especially anything related to China. I need not explain why.

    (The aggravating part about all this is that the continued hollowing out of the United States on every level and disadvantageous concrete deals with China, coupled with ineffective but grandiloquent endorsements of “human rights” in Hong Kong or Xinjiang that act as though it’s still 2000 from a practical power POV, is opting for the worst combination possible. We get nothing done to strengthen the position of the United States, but arouse both fear *and* contempt-especially given the current domestic drama of the US.)

    Paying attention to how the Hui are doing is what I do when I want to read in between the lines for the real dynamics of what is going on. On one hand, the “de-doming” of Chinese mosques in major eastern cities does indicate a lot about the CCP’s embrace of ethnic nationalism under Xi: this wouldn’t have happened 10 years ago. But on the other hand, the Hui communities usually get more of a consultation from the government than the Uighurs on these things, and they don’t seem to object. So, contrary to what NPR says, what is going on in Xinjiang is less about “Islamophobia” than it is about fears of separatism. Race plays an understated role here. (Tellingly, the government wishes to not make mosques “less Islamic”, but to make them look “less Arab”. )

    >Judo – which was once the most popular martial art in America – is dying in the U.S. and BJJ is the final nail in its coffin here… all of which is a crying shame especially since BJJ itself, in its sport incarnation, is becoming a sillier combat art with people flopping to the guard and looking for sweeps (for points) and maybe leglocks.

    Although I might not have becoming a major competitor in mind, I am trying to take my adoption of martial arts seriously. Any advice?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  243. nebulafox says:

    Also, worth remembering in Urumqi, what the Uighur rioters chanted:

    “Kill the Han and Hui!”

    Real Muslim unity right there.

    Finding a way to thread the needle between not sugarcoating what China does (if “white” countries like Russia or Israel implanted forced birth control in certain disfavored racial minorities, how much earlier would we have heard that?) especially given the implications for America’s governing class and their fixations about race, and illustrating the complexities involved in a situation that might not be as straightforwardly hero/villain as the MSM portrays it is always fun…

    • Replies: @anon
  244. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    Although I might not have becoming a major competitor in mind, I am trying to take my adoption of martial arts seriously. Any advice?

    What are your goals?

  245. anon[106] • Disclaimer says:
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Definitely. Xu has his own Youtube channel where he does some edgy anti-CPC takes. He also has a entertaining trash-talking rivalry with his Taiwanese counterpart, former ROC marine Holger Chen 館長, (right) who’s challenged him to come to Taiwan.

    Actually they have become friends. Neither one is a good fighter.

    Xu admitted on numerous occasions that any Chinese professional fighters in his weight class can beat him easily. And Chen has admitted that he is no match for Xu. Chen was a body builder, and doesn’t know much about martial arts. You can tell by watching Chen’s teaching videos. Young people want to be seen with him or be taught by him because he is a famous internet influencer.

    What Xu and Chen have in common is that they are great businessmen and self-promoters. They have a lot students and a huge internet fan base and both are rich.

    Xu at one point was sued for libel from another “master”. He lost and refused to pay. So the other guy asked the court to put Xu on the Social Credit System shit list where he was banned flying and using high-speed rail. He finally had to pony up the few thousands he owed because he had to travel.

    Chen is even a bigger hustler than Xu. Besides owning many gyms, he promotes and sells all kind of stuff. (sea food, clothes, etc) Chen, a former gang member, got into a business dispute with another gang and he was shot and almost died last year.

    They are Kardashian of the MA world. They are famous because they are great self-promoters, and in the process making themselves rich.

  246. anon[106] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox

    They were not rioters. They were terrorists.

    They had killed other Uighurs, including an Iman, thanks to the radicalization from the madrassas set up by Saudi Arabia and the work of the CIA.

  247. @arono

    Yes, Tojo resigned on that date, but the War nevertheless carried on with the new government.

    IJA had a tradition of 下克上 Gekokujō the low insubordinates the high, beginning from Sengoku, to 2.26, to Mukden, Kyūjō incident, and Mishima. But for those invariably the motive is agitate towards more belligerence. This is a unique case, Kanji, despite having some mean things to say about white people, in particular Americans, was determined to end the war in Pacific and China.

    And in contrast with Stauffenberg’s actions, which took place when the war was clearly lost. The IJA scored a huge victory in 1944 with Operation Ichigo, the biggest IJA operation in the entire war, in controlling the main airfields in eastern China and the entire Beijing-Hongkong axis, precluded Allies the ability to launch any operations against Japanese Home Islands from China. The American bombing campaigns wouldn’t begin until capture of Okinawa.

    The KMT government was near collapse after Ichigo and had only began to roll back those losses by Battle of West Hunan (mid 1945). It was a major surprise in China that the War ended in August of that year.

    The biggest winner of Ichigo would be the CCP.

  248. @Twinkie

    There are geopolitical considerations. It can be taken for granted by “Island” countries like US, UK. Lesson learned from 2nd Sino-Japanese War, WW2 Ostfront, Sino-Soviet Conflict, was that control over defensible terrain and strategic depth is a question of survival

    1. Xinjiang: flanked to the north by Tianshan, west by Pamirs; but reaches in rear depth of Russia

    2. Tibet: nearly impassible terrain*; but reaches into core India

    *even if breached, supported by Sichuan Basin and Qinghai Plateau, both highly defensible terrain

    3. Taiwan: leaves the core Yangtze and Pearl Delta region exposed (more than half of GDP). Encircled by the First Island Chain (Japan, Okinawa, Taiwan, Philippines)

    View post on imgur.com

  249. @nebulafox

    I basically agree except that I don’t think a world of detente and separation is very easy, maybe not possible at all. It is looking like an arms race is starting up. But we are in the position the USSR played in the 1980s–economically disadvantaged and with elites who lack conviction about their system. Maybe we face the same choice as the Japanese in WWII–gamble on first strike? I don’t know, except that I was counciling against China back in the 1990s and with each passing year our position has gotten worse and worse.

  250. @nebulafox

    I don’t agree with this. I think the analysis of CCP psychology is wrong, and, given that psychology were true, its analysis of geopolitics would be wrong too. As with all authoritarian systems, those in power are in power because they love power and their power-love is the primary driver of their policies. Neither in fact nor in theory is the PRC the successor to the ancient empires of China. It is a modern state whose borders coincide with ancient borders as an accident of history. There is no legitimate rationale for maintaining the integrity of borders chosen by historical accident when those borders are throwing together people of disparate ethnicity, culture, religion, and language who don’t want to live together. The international geopolitical and economic systems are entirely different than in the late 19th to early 20th century, and acting like the CCP doesn’t understand that or is making decisions out of some concern for the interests of their people is both underestimating and overestimating them at the same time.

    The lie is put to your line of quasi-apologetics by Hong Kong and Taiwan. Under no theory of governance or legitimacy that the PRC could espouse could either place be said to “belong” to the PRC by right. Neither would either of them present any threat to the PRC militarily or ideologically if left alone. The desire to realize a “one China” policy is simply a combination of historical inertia and ethnic pride illogically mixed up in a soup that has as its base the simple desire for power.

    I’m not even opposed to states based in ethnic nationalism if that were not wedded to totalitarian domestic tendencies and what appears to be expansionist international tendencies. A truly democratic* Chinese ethno-state that discarded places like Tibet and Mongolia would become a world leader that could be welcomed by us all.

    *I know that’s a bit hand-wavy but space is limited…

  251. @Twinkie

    Did you not see, in the video I linked above,

    I keep distinguishing between the non-contact sport-style sparring and full-contact sparring, which I think are quite different.

    Lyoto Machida may be very famous in the world of UFC/MMA, although that didn’t exist for a long time. If you go back and read about the early history of shotokan, Funakoshi was opposed to point-based competitive matches and basically wanted people to just do kata. Probably, Tsutomu Ohshima represented his vision in America. It was the pugilistic and bellicose students associated with Takushoku University who wanted to spar all the time and designed shotokan’s competition system, which, if memory serves, they kind of forced onto every other branch of karate as well. After competitive sparring was introduced, shotokan started devolving into a poor-man’s kickboxing, with its sparring basically unrelated to its kata training. (This is the road kyokushin had already taken because Oyama wanted to punch stuff and is why kyokushin kata performance usually sucks.) (Even when I was training basically at the time UFC was still getting started, instructors didn’t really have good explanations for how the sparring was a demonstration of a self-defense system based on the kata. This is why the KKK of karate was taught–kata, basics of punching and self-defense, and sparring practice were all unrelated to each other.) It sounds like Machida Yoshizo grew up in shotokan in that period when everyone was hungry to fight, and passed that on to his son, who I note also studied boxing, muay thai, and other arts before UFC. Is he a great proponent of shotokan karate per se or just a great fighter? Who can say? I’m not that interested, so okay–leg kicks and lunge punches are an integral and widely used techniques and my memory must be wrong.

    hile Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu competitors are called Jiujiteiros. The point is that you call a Brazilian martial art the way Brazilians want it called, even if it has a Japanese origin.

    In Korea, Judo is pronounced “Yudo” (유도). Meanwhile, even though there is a perfectly fine Korean word for (Japanese) Jujutsu/Yawara called “Yusul” (유술), Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is called “Joojitsoo” (주짓수).

    This is silly. BJJ is obviously a branch of jujutsu, complete with Japanese-style training uniforms and a Japanese rank system. It just has marketing. The idea that we have to follow Brazilian language use is the same silliness that got American people calling themselves karateka and judoka–shallow emulation of outward forms. The fact that Korean has its own characters to represent the word jujutsu just shows that insisting on a Brazilian spelling is silly. However, in language, usage has its own authority, so no doubt “jiujitsu” will stick.

  252. @Chrisnonymous

    True. Also true of the US regime.

  253. @Twinkie

    What’s wrong with adopting Western and Japanese fighting techniques to make its people competitive in the world of real fighting?

    Its said ad nauseam that the Western media stereotypes orientals as being effete, but until recent “banning” of effeminate men, it’s actually that the CCP media that also does this. Its much easier to rule over an empire of ping-pong player, K-pop stars who’s never seen the inside of a weight room than MMA bros who can unleash another Boxer’s Rebellion, Li Zicheng or Hong Xiuquan.

    Its been the cultural ethos since Song to de-elevate status of warriors, 重文輕武, which translates to either

    Favoring the Intellectual over Martial
    or,
    The Military subordinated by the Civilian Bureaucracy

    There’s a proverb about this related to two literary classics 少不讀水滸,老不讀三國 The youth should not read Water Margins, the elderly should not read Romance of Three Kingdoms

    Water Margins is about chad bros who get wasted and in fights with each other, eventually starting a rebellion against the Song (based on the actual Fang La Uprising 1120). The youths should avoid reading this lest they get too hotblooded.

    Romance of Three Kingdoms is large parts about stratagem and tactics of war. The elderly should avoid reading to be at peace with the world.

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