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Robin DiAngelo's Miasma Theory: "Racism Comes Out of Our Pores as White People"
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From Michigan Public Radio:

Why all white people are racist, but can’t handle being called racist: the theory of white fragility

By DUSTIN DWYER • MAR 25, 2015

Robin DiAngelo was right out of college when she started thinking about it. She’d landed a job leading workshops on racism. And she met a man who became very angry, and pounded on a table. He said white people are the target of discrimination, white people can’t even find jobs anymore.

DiAngelo looked around the office and she saw nothing but white people, all of them with jobs.

“It was unnerving,” she says now. “It was like, ‘This is not rooted in any racial reality that is happening, in this room, in this workplace, or in this man’s life.’ And yet, these feelings are real. His rage is real. How do we do that?”

Meaning: How do white people see themselves as the victims of racism, when the world around them shows something totally different?

… Then, if someone comes along and talks about racism the way DiAngelo does – that racism is a system of oppression. That anyone can be prejudiced, but in America, only white people are racist. And, actually, all white people are racist because, as DiAngelo says:

“Racism comes out of our pores as white people. It’s the way that we are.”

As I wrote in Taki’s Magazine:

The Miasma Theory of White Racism
Steve Sailer

February 17, 2021

Scientific-minded dissidents frequently compare today’s orthodoxy that the cause of whatever ails blacks is—and, indeed, must be—white racism to discarded scientific constructs such as phlogiston in chemistry and aether in physics. But the most informative comparison might be to the long, unfortunate hold of the miasma theory of disease on medical thought.

In 2021, the conventional wisdom is that while you almost never see white racism, it’s always out there somewhere, everywhere, ruining the lives of blacks, lowering their test scores and raising their murder rates. It’s as if white people implicitly exude a poison from their pores that harms only blacks, due to their being genetically different, although, as everyone also knows, genetic differences, like race, don’t exist. C’mon, man, follow the science!

Similarly, the history of miasma theory shows how resistant poor explanations can be to correction. The notion that malaria (Italian for “bad air”) and other diseases now known to be contagious were caused by poisonous emanations (or miasma—ancient Greek for “pollution”) was common (although not universal) from classical times until the later 19th century.

What exactly miasma was comprised of was not fully clear. It was usually assumed to come from rotting vegetation or dead bodies (which led to the growth in popularity of cremation in the 19th century), or perhaps from the breath of foul creatures like toads. In any case, air was held to be more dangerous at night.

“The history of miasma theory shows how resistant poor explanations can be to correction.”
Disease was felt to proceed from impurity, corruption, and death. All agreed that smelly air was the most dangerous. That’s why doctors during the Black Death wore scary leather masks with birdlike beaks into which they stuffed sweet-smelling flowers and herbs to protect themselves from the death-dealing smells.

Miasma theory was not ridiculous. It tended to merely get the arrow of causation backward, much like The Establishment now believes that stereotypes cause blacks to behave badly rather than that black bad behavior leads to stereotypes. Similarly, the miasma theorists assumed that smells caused rot rather than vice versa.

… Of course, a fundamental difference between the miasma theory of disease and today’s belief in implicit and systemic intersectional racism is that the old-time doctors were against disease. Because they were on the side of humanity, the medical profession eventually swallowed its pride and dropped miasma theory.

In contrast, today’s exponents of the racism theory of black problems are not against racism in general, the way that doctors were ultimately against disease. Instead, they are just against racism, existent or nonexistent, toward blacks. To battle all the invisible racist emanations besieging blacks, they demand more racism against whites.

 
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  1. “She’d landed a job leading workshops on racism”

    The race industry. There’s boatloads of money to be made selling hate.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @interesting

    Thomas Sowell, the magic negro of the conservatives.

    Has the esteemed and oh-so-smart Mr. Sowell ever acknowledge that there are genetic differences between the races?

    If not (and he hasn't), then despite his IQ, he's worthless. A smart person who can't see obvious realities right in front of him isn't particularly useful.

    Take your pathetic colorblind civic nationalism and shove it up your a$$.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Reg Cæsar, @International Jew, @Spect3r, @interesting, @AndrewR

    , @David
    @interesting

    PwC is promising to spend $12 billion hiring 100,000 Environmental, Social and Governance (ESG) experts, including 10,000 Black and LatinX from US inner cities.


    Companies and investors are more frequently examining their impact on the environment and scrutinizing diversity within their ranks, initiatives that extend beyond the traditional financial accounting and auditing services that PwC has long provided.

    U.S. companies are also now gearing up for potential regulatory oversight of their environmental disclosures, board diversity and workforce.
     

    https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2021/06/16/618744.htm
  2. She may be the greatest grifter ever!

    Salute

  3. I met a racist on the Ron Unz blog,
    I ain’t namin’ names.
    Oh, he really worked me over good,
    just like Jesse James

    Poor, pore, pitiful me.
    pour poor pitiful me.
    Oh these White people won’t let me be.
    Lord have mercy on Steve.

    Whoa, woe is me.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I met her. She was hot!

    She was also, shall we say, tempermental, but anger only enhanced her hotness.

    I'm a dinosaur.

    Replies: @International Jew

  4. When I see DiAngelo, I always think of the image of women who collaborated with the Germans in WWII being paraded around the streets with shaved heads.

    But she is right about one thing: In the eyes of non-Whites, all Whites (even super-victim Jews) are irredeemably racist and must be punished. That’s what Murray with all of his brain power can’t see and why his book/argument is so flawed.

    We’re not voting – or debating – our way out this.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    When I see DiAngelo, I always think of the image of women who collaborated with the Germans in WWII being paraded around the streets with shaved heads.

    I see a woman that needs to be pounded in the parking lot of a dive bar.

    Her face is just filled with stress.

    I supposed I too would be stressed if I had to make a living by denigrating my own racial group while trying to pretend that evolution somehow doesn't apply to humans.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    , @Right_On
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    women who collaborated with the Germans in WWII being paraded around the streets with shaved heads
    Many were 'working girls' - prostitutes. I always wonder if they were really that different from cab drivers, waiters or bartenders who were also happy to serve German officers.

    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    "When I see DiAngelo, I always think of the image of women who collaborated with the Germans in WWII being paraded around the streets with shaved heads."

    Well, somebody needs to drag her out for a midnight ride to the fellas wearing the hoods and bearing the electric clippers. That's about the only way this is gonna come to an end.

  5. Something is rotten in the culture of Anglo-Saxony. No other culture behaves so absurdly towards blacks (Latin, Slavic, east Asian, south Asian, Native American, ..)

    • Agree: Abe
    • Replies: @Alan Mercer
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Which of those cultures has been relentlessly browbeaten by its media and courts for 50+ years on the topic? Are our media and courts artifacts or (external) drivers of our culture?

    , @AndrewR
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Brazil is getting BLM'd. It's taking a while but it's happening.

  6. Arm up, folks. They are coming for you.

    • Replies: @anon
    @R.G. Camara

    Why should I "arm up"? Conservatives have made it clear they're cowards. They've done nothing to stop this. Worse, they've often helped it along. They're not going to do anything. They'll dutifully go along with anything they're told because they're either too lazy or too stupid to do anything about it. How is that not clear by now?

    It would seem to me that we're doomed. The future entails a racially-oriented Bolshevik revolution the next time the economy takes a nosedive. Of course, there were options like secession which might have prevented this. Somewhere out there in an alternate universe, the dissident right, not being complete imbeciles, recognized where we were heading and began editorializing for independence all at the same time and with one voice; they weren't fooled by Donald Trump or "vote harder" arguments. The effort worked.

    In alternate history Red States of America, the people have freedom; there is no police state; the media is controlled by our people -- buh bye MSNBC, CNN, Salon, and Twitter; we are the majority and there is no racism against us because of it; your nation loves you and it feels good to love your nation back (there is nothing better in life for a man than to love something and work to make it better -- that's where Conan the Barbarian was wrong, that's what's best in life); there is no divisiveness because we're all on the same side, leftists having been geographically isolated in Blue coastal areas and prohibited citizenship or entry into our country -- so they have zero influence and are never seen in polite society, in the media, or in any capacity; all leftist degeneracy has been purged from society because there are no Leftists to support it.

    Sounds like paradise to me. That's what we could have had. Weep over it.

    Thanks for condemning the youth to living in a Soviet police state, racially discriminated against and hated, just because you Boomers wanted to go to your graves under the (false) impression that another Reagan Revolution was just around the corner. Just one more snarky Ben Shapiro comment, just one more Candace Owens video from those cucks at PragerU and "naturally conservative" minorities will start voting against their economic & group interests, becoming good little civ nats like all those nice White ladies in the 'burbs. ... any day now ... any day.

    You've doomed countless people to a lifetime of hell. That's what you've done.

  7. White women can be so stupid.

    • Agree: John Johnson
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Gaspar DeLaFunk

    You might wanna smash that "Early Life" button

    Replies: @anon

  8. I think it has always been a class thing aimed at liquidating the formidable white ethnic majority as a factor in politics. Trump in the White house showed how justified the the perception of working whites as a threat to the ruling caste is. There is a class of people who think them making lots of money in an increasingly unequal society is the national interest. Only conflict with other countries makes the Deep State oppose such narrow sectional interests dressed up as civic virtue. That is why we are going to get globalism. under Biden and then Kamala. China’s rise will put an end to that anti white politics eventually. Don’t mention the diversity level of China anyone.

    • Agree: Ghost of Bull Moose
  9. Our bodies as signposts of our sins – “Racism comes out of our pores as white people.”

    So something is coming out of our skin. These are the creepy skinners / kinners (German dialect word for: Kids! – : Kinners, beware!

    The inside is out and / The outside is in / Everybody ‘s got something to hide / Except for me and my monkey: white-y is the oppressor. He robbed the monkey from Mother Nature’s sister’s = Robin’s caring arms and now owns the monkey.– Monkey being a stand-in for the black women – of course, as being possessed and oppressed by the white man.

    Oh – come on, come on, / Come on it’s such a pain!
    Everbody ‘s gonna be canceld – and the Beatles foremost of all!

    They’ve been so bad!

    Robin DiAngelo is the Goddess of our worldly failures. We have her around us day in and day out because we have sinned. She triumphs over us. A sad miracle: Necromancy as a present day reincarnation of Nemesis.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Dieter Kief

    Well I wouldn't go that far.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

  10. Dear Mr Sailer,

    Yes, if one clogs up one’s pores with black paint, or alternatively, covers one’s white body all over with white cloth, one not only stops up one’s miasmatic racism but one can become a Democrat governor as well!

    Look at me!

    Yours,

    Ralph Northam
    Democrat Governor

  11. Looks like the left has found a new religion to stuff in their god-shaped holes.

  12. @Achmed E. Newman
    I met a racist on the Ron Unz blog,
    I ain't namin' names.
    Oh, he really worked me over good,
    just like Jesse James

    Poor, pore, pitiful me.
    pour poor pitiful me.
    Oh these White people won't let me be.
    Lord have mercy on Steve.

    Whoa, woe is me.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srpwqf2MWAw

    Replies: @James Speaks

    I met her. She was hot!

    She was also, shall we say, tempermental, but anger only enhanced her hotness.

    I’m a dinosaur.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @James Speaks

    She sure was. I don't know why, but it's really depressing to see what once-hot babes from my own youth look like now.

    Replies: @black sea, @Bardon Kaldian

  13. Dear Mr Sailer,

    I can cure you of your racism.

    Let me. Please!

    Yours,

    Auric Goldfinger

    PS: Bill Gates and all the other Bond Villians here at Davos say hi!

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Ano

    Goldfinger levels up when you know the background.

  14. ‘ “Racism Comes Out of Our Pores as White People”‘

    Oh well. Time to celebrate who we are, then.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Colin Wright



    ‘ “Racism Comes Out of Our Pores as White People”‘
     
    Oh well. Time to celebrate who we are, then.
     
    Yes. We have sweat glands.

    Other races are more similar to pigs. It remains within them, and they have to wallow in mud to release heat.


    https://jaguzafarm.com/support/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/wallo-1-69.jpg

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  15. She lived on a Jewish Kibbutz when she was younger.

    Here are a couple of interesting comments that emerged during a previous discussion of her. These comments provide a glimpse into her true motives.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/who-is-robin-white-fragility-diangelo-anyway/#comment-4081929

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/who-is-robin-white-fragility-diangelo-anyway/#comment-4080734

    If you’re a White Gentile who wants to be a part of the intelligentsia in today’s America, you basically have to convert to Judaism. You may not become Jewish by blood, but you can be an honorary Jew.

    Let’s retire the phrases “self-hating White” and “guilt-ridden White.”

    Let’s start using the phrase “Jewish convert.”

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Can we have a source for your claim? I tried looking it up and got nothing credible.

    Replies: @res

    , @John Johnson
    @JohnnyWalker123

    If you’re a White Gentile who wants to be a part of the intelligentsia in today’s America, you basically have to convert to Judaism. You may not become Jewish by blood, but you can be an honorary Jew.

    The left-wing of academia is more about being female than Jewish.

    It's really a club for bitter women that don't like critical thinking
    https://sociology.osu.edu/graduate-program/sociology-graduate-student-association-sgsa

    , @International Jew
    @JohnnyWalker123

    You don't go to a kibbutz to become Jewish any more than you go to Oberlin College to become an 1830s-style Presbyterian. The kibbutz movement was explicitly anti-religious and pro-communist. It's those things, most likely, that attracted her.

    , @JerseyJeffersonian
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Nope.

  16. The obvious solution is to plug up all the white pores some how. What possible options exist? Anything that a mob could do, perhaps?

    DiAnelo’s hoping the Woke mob will come for her last.

  17. In contrast, today’s exponents of the racism theory of black problems are not against racism in general, the way that doctors were ultimately against disease. Instead, they are just against racism, existent or nonexistent, toward blacks. To battle all the invisible racist emanations besieging blacks, they demand more racism against whites.

    I think it is more correct to say that today’s exponents of the racism theory of black problems who have an IQ over 130 (the elites) understand that racism against whites is possible and is probable in today’s social climate, but they approve regardless because Emmett Till.

    I also think it is correct to say that today’s exponents of the racism theory of black problems who have an IQ less than 85, or hail from such a group (negroes), think that racism means white man treat black man bad. Their lack of the ability to think in the abstract, or even to use adjectives properly, means that they cannot load the concept that racism is where group A holds and acts with prejudice against group B due to group B’s immutable characteristics into their 6502 microprocessors.

    And yet, all exponents of the current racial theory claim to be our moral superiors.

  18. @Dieter Kief

    Our bodies as signposts of our sins - “Racism comes out of our pores as white people.”

     

    So something is coming out of our skin. These are the creepy skinners / kinners (German dialect word for: Kids! - : Kinners, beware!

    The inside is out and / The outside is in / Everybody 's got something to hide / Except for me and my monkey: white-y is the oppressor. He robbed the monkey from Mother Nature's sister's = Robin's caring arms and now owns the monkey.- Monkey being a stand-in for the black women - of course, as being possessed and oppressed by the white man.

    Oh - come on, come on, / Come on it's such a pain!
    Everbody 's gonna be canceld - and the Beatles foremost of all!

    They've been so bad!

    Robin DiAngelo is the Goddess of our worldly failures. We have her around us day in and day out because we have sinned. She triumphs over us. A sad miracle: Necromancy as a present day reincarnation of Nemesis.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Well I wouldn’t go that far.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Desiderius

    A comedy has to go over to the top - if not, it would be neither funny nor - interesting (entertaining, revealing, provoking thoughts...).

    Btw. blogger Hail-to-You has written an in-depth analysis of Robin DiAngelo and her scene 8state of mind/ her peers and collaborators).


    I praise his work highly!

    https://hailtoyou.wordpress.com/2020/07/22/on-white-fragility-and-the-academia-to-mainstream-pipeline-an-investigation-into-white-fragility-theory-and-its-life-cycle-from-2011-to-2020/

    https://hailtoyou.wordpress.com/2020/08/03/who-radicalized-robin-diangelo-a-biographical-investigation-into-the-coiner-and-promoter-of-white-fragility-theory/

  19. Burge hasn’t exactly been distinguishing himself since belatedly deciding to finally give a shit but he’s right here. This isn’t simping, it’s game knowing game.

    We’re going to need the ones who have been here that long (and they’re going to need us) if we’re going to make it. Not to mention the utility of the general principle of time served here being Lindy. From a global perspective neither one of us is coming from a position of strength.

    The globalists are making George Floyd their poster boy to make their own racial replacement via the southern border and H1B and buck-breaking go down easier.

  20. Hi Steve,

    This is the face (and arms, and legs, and body) of anti-racism!

    Join Justin- and stop up your own Racist BO by going to my on-line store and purchasing my own-name brand of body paint!

    Yours,

    Robin

  21. Meaning: How do white people see themselves as the victims of racism, when the world around them shows something totally different?

    Meaning: I’m an anti-white racist who will ignore the OVERT and UBIQUITOUS racism against Whites that emanates from every significant institution where Whites live.

  22. Anon[394] • Disclaimer says:

    I hire about 10 people a year, between turnover and expansion.

    A year ago- right around this time! – I stopped hiring black people. I really looked at it and decided I had always made accommodations in those hires you know, “to do the right thing.”

    Some of the hires were pretty good! Some, not so much. Most, about as good as they usually are.

    But that was the last 7 years- for the next 7 – or until I get a better job, or maybe they figure it out, no more.

    What do you expect? I was racist all those years, why let everyone down?

    You are what people pretend you to be.

    • Thanks: SimpleSong
    • Replies: @Seneca44
    @Anon

    The American blacks I’ve hired to just do the work have shown their true colors after about a year in 100% of the cases. There is always eventually a conflict where the boss insists on doing things his way because that’s what he thinks best and it is his company. That’s when the race card is played and a white boss can never overcome it.

  23. @JohnnyWalker123
    She lived on a Jewish Kibbutz when she was younger.

    Here are a couple of interesting comments that emerged during a previous discussion of her. These comments provide a glimpse into her true motives.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/who-is-robin-white-fragility-diangelo-anyway/#comment-4081929

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/who-is-robin-white-fragility-diangelo-anyway/#comment-4080734

    If you're a White Gentile who wants to be a part of the intelligentsia in today's America, you basically have to convert to Judaism. You may not become Jewish by blood, but you can be an honorary Jew.

    Let's retire the phrases "self-hating White" and "guilt-ridden White."

    Let's start using the phrase "Jewish convert."

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @John Johnson, @International Jew, @JerseyJeffersonian

    Can we have a source for your claim? I tried looking it up and got nothing credible.

    • Replies: @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Given that most people would consider the Unz Review not credible it seems appropriate to include the obvious hit.
    https://hailtoyou.wordpress.com/2020/08/03/who-radicalized-robin-diangelo-a-biographical-investigation-into-the-coiner-and-promoter-of-white-fragility-theory/


    Here is what we know: Robin DiAngelo was a serious international traveler in her youth, possibly late teens and twenties. According to her husband, at one point she lived on a kibbutz — a curious statement given that she is not Jewish and on which shortly.

     

    Also this. Note that the Internet Archive link given has disappeared. Funny how that works.

    As to what she was doing in young adulthood from the mid-1970s into the 1980s, this from DiAngelo’s husband:

    For a drive from Seattle to San Francisco, I once wrote up a 4-page, single-spaced itinerary, which I photocopied several times just in case one got misplaced. Robin is the opposite – early years spent drifting around the world from kibbutz to pizza parlor to hostel to catamaran made her a bold and resourceful traveler who prefers to “figure it out when we get there” or some such long-hair nonsense. So already we have a problem.
     
    Note that the poster is a commenter here. Perhaps he (?) could comment. Especially about the disappeared archive page.
    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Hail

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Triteleia Laxa

  24. History™ has now spoken: judge by the color of the skin, not by the content of the character.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @bomag

    I think they* are trying to tell us to judge by the content of character, but at the same time telling us that whites have poor character by definition, because white privilege, and negroes have good character, despite the violence, because of systemic whiteness.

    What is perceived as poor character among negroes is actually good character when observed though the appropriate lens. Which they* provide. In related news, 2+2=5.

    *Our moral and intellectual superiors

  25. If GOP pols were worth any salt they would:

    -Ban the use of Ms. DiAngelo’s book in K-12 education
    -Ban its use by any government contractor in training

    • Replies: @SimpleSong
    @216

    While I have a seething hatred for DiAngelo, her schtick does do a few things:

    --it gets the White cowards, traitors, and masochists to show their true colors.
    --the remaining quality Whites, it unites them like nothing else.

  26. I’m not attracted to black women.

    So I possess at least one (rather large) pore that doesn’t ooze racism all over black bodies.

    • LOL: Jim Bob Lassiter
  27. DiAngelo looked around the office and she saw nothing but white people, all of them with jobs.

    Well, if they didn’t have jobs they wouldn’t be there being re-educated, would they now?

    By the same logic, you could go to a Harvard black alumni meeting and conclude that blacks faced no discrimination, and were generally doing absolutely fine, no matter what anyone there said.

  28. I think what’s missing in the miasma v. white fragility comparison is implicit in Steve’s observation about how miasma ended, but needs to be kept in mind.

    The reason the miasma theory ended, the reason why doctors were on the side of humans and curing them, was because the moral position was clear and didn’t need an argument. Disease bad, humans without it, good.

    But the white fragility hypothesis (the pore one) is itself not just an explanatory thesis of fact, it’s part of a moral doctrine as well. It’s not just that, as a factual matter, racism miasma comes out of white people’s pores, it’s that white people are irredeemably bad, and this is just one manifestation of it. The miasmatic pore aspect is just lighted on for convenience’s sake. It could be anything.

    Rationality can’t win in this one; it’s hard to see what would that isn’t very scary.

  29. anon[916] • Disclaimer says:
    @R.G. Camara
    Arm up, folks. They are coming for you.

    Replies: @anon

    Why should I “arm up”? Conservatives have made it clear they’re cowards. They’ve done nothing to stop this. Worse, they’ve often helped it along. They’re not going to do anything. They’ll dutifully go along with anything they’re told because they’re either too lazy or too stupid to do anything about it. How is that not clear by now?

    It would seem to me that we’re doomed. The future entails a racially-oriented Bolshevik revolution the next time the economy takes a nosedive. Of course, there were options like secession which might have prevented this. Somewhere out there in an alternate universe, the dissident right, not being complete imbeciles, recognized where we were heading and began editorializing for independence all at the same time and with one voice; they weren’t fooled by Donald Trump or “vote harder” arguments. The effort worked.

    In alternate history Red States of America, the people have freedom; there is no police state; the media is controlled by our people — buh bye MSNBC, CNN, Salon, and Twitter; we are the majority and there is no racism against us because of it; your nation loves you and it feels good to love your nation back (there is nothing better in life for a man than to love something and work to make it better — that’s where Conan the Barbarian was wrong, that’s what’s best in life); there is no divisiveness because we’re all on the same side, leftists having been geographically isolated in Blue coastal areas and prohibited citizenship or entry into our country — so they have zero influence and are never seen in polite society, in the media, or in any capacity; all leftist degeneracy has been purged from society because there are no Leftists to support it.

    Sounds like paradise to me. That’s what we could have had. Weep over it.

    Thanks for condemning the youth to living in a Soviet police state, racially discriminated against and hated, just because you Boomers wanted to go to your graves under the (false) impression that another Reagan Revolution was just around the corner. Just one more snarky Ben Shapiro comment, just one more Candace Owens video from those cucks at PragerU and “naturally conservative” minorities will start voting against their economic & group interests, becoming good little civ nats like all those nice White ladies in the ‘burbs. … any day now … any day.

    You’ve doomed countless people to a lifetime of hell. That’s what you’ve done.

  30. That shift isn’t to the right, nor is he necessarily wrong.

    Question is if he’s right enough. Letting the adversary choose the time and place of battle is never a good idea.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Desiderius

    Kirk is trying to stay relevant. His astroturfed young-neo-con schtick wasn't working in the Trump era, so he's moving right. He's an opportunist and a weasel. I wouldn't trust him.

    , @Buck Ransom
    @Desiderius

    Juneteenth is to the 4th of July as Kwanzaa is to Christmas.
    And you can bet that the same folks are behind both of the new creations.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  31. They want us fucking dead…nothing else needs to be said….

  32. Robin DiAngelo tries to incite beatings of white people whom dont accept her guilt trip and behave in a ashamed-to-be-alive manner.

    Its a nutty nation that allows teachers to teach students that they hate, and assign books written by authors who hate the students slso.

  33. @interesting
    "She’d landed a job leading workshops on racism"

    The race industry. There's boatloads of money to be made selling hate.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTOCyAPUFMk&t=23s

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @David

    Thomas Sowell, the magic negro of the conservatives.

    Has the esteemed and oh-so-smart Mr. Sowell ever acknowledge that there are genetic differences between the races?

    If not (and he hasn’t), then despite his IQ, he’s worthless. A smart person who can’t see obvious realities right in front of him isn’t particularly useful.

    Take your pathetic colorblind civic nationalism and shove it up your a$$.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Oh let them have Thomas Sowell.

    They lost Cosby and don't have much left.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @bruce county

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Citizen of a Silly Country


    If not (and he hasn’t), then despite his IQ, he’s worthless.
     
    When you get your counterpart to A Conflict of Visions published is when you get to call Sowell "worthless". Not a moment sooner.

    You're living up to your professed nationality.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

    , @International Jew
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    You're asking more than is reasonable. Sowell is surely right that blacks could do much better than they're doing now. Just give them the right incentives, ie enforce the law on their misbehavior, and end affirmative action, and it would be a whole new ballgame for all of us.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

    , @Spect3r
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    The obsession with IQ in this site is borderline insane. IQ means nothing when you dont do anything properly with it.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Wade Hampton, @Wolf Barney

    , @interesting
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Damn dude. Because I think what T.S. says is the truth and logical I must be a conservative?

    I am apolitical you give me an issue and I'll give you my side. And I don't listen to Thomas Sowell because he's black I do so because he's right.

    I believe that most "differences" are cultural. If little black boys were taught the passion for learning the same way as little Asian/white boys are, they could achieve all they ever wanted. I have way to much personal experience that proves that out.

    But liberals don't want their pets thinking for themselves and "acting white" so they shower the whole group with praise and accolades for being failures which is why they elevate career criminals killed by police to hero status.

    p.s. and lets not forget other black authors with good insights.

    Shelby Steele
    Jason Riley
    Coleman Hughes
    "the sage from south central" Larry Elder
    Leo Terrell

    and then out on the fringe

    Tommy Sotomayor
    David Carroll

    Replies: @anon

    , @AndrewR
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Given that the ruling class blames all of blacks' problems, real and imagined, on whites, it seems silly to get mad at Sowell. Clearly blacks, enabled by Democrats, can and must improve many things for themselves. It's not a matter of "forcing them to act white," as you claim elsewhere.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

  34. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    When I see DiAngelo, I always think of the image of women who collaborated with the Germans in WWII being paraded around the streets with shaved heads.

    But she is right about one thing: In the eyes of non-Whites, all Whites (even super-victim Jews) are irredeemably racist and must be punished. That's what Murray with all of his brain power can't see and why his book/argument is so flawed.

    We're not voting - or debating - our way out this.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Right_On, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    When I see DiAngelo, I always think of the image of women who collaborated with the Germans in WWII being paraded around the streets with shaved heads.

    I see a woman that needs to be pounded in the parking lot of a dive bar.

    Her face is just filled with stress.

    I supposed I too would be stressed if I had to make a living by denigrating my own racial group while trying to pretend that evolution somehow doesn’t apply to humans.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @John Johnson

    She's really old, dude. That's gross. Bring lots of lube.

    Replies: @John Johnson

  35. There is probably a better argument that criminality comes out of the pores of black people which makes white people dumber and more violent.

  36. My racism is an invisible mind ray.

  37. @JohnnyWalker123
    She lived on a Jewish Kibbutz when she was younger.

    Here are a couple of interesting comments that emerged during a previous discussion of her. These comments provide a glimpse into her true motives.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/who-is-robin-white-fragility-diangelo-anyway/#comment-4081929

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/who-is-robin-white-fragility-diangelo-anyway/#comment-4080734

    If you're a White Gentile who wants to be a part of the intelligentsia in today's America, you basically have to convert to Judaism. You may not become Jewish by blood, but you can be an honorary Jew.

    Let's retire the phrases "self-hating White" and "guilt-ridden White."

    Let's start using the phrase "Jewish convert."

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @John Johnson, @International Jew, @JerseyJeffersonian

    If you’re a White Gentile who wants to be a part of the intelligentsia in today’s America, you basically have to convert to Judaism. You may not become Jewish by blood, but you can be an honorary Jew.

    The left-wing of academia is more about being female than Jewish.

    It’s really a club for bitter women that don’t like critical thinking
    https://sociology.osu.edu/graduate-program/sociology-graduate-student-association-sgsa

  38. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @interesting

    Thomas Sowell, the magic negro of the conservatives.

    Has the esteemed and oh-so-smart Mr. Sowell ever acknowledge that there are genetic differences between the races?

    If not (and he hasn't), then despite his IQ, he's worthless. A smart person who can't see obvious realities right in front of him isn't particularly useful.

    Take your pathetic colorblind civic nationalism and shove it up your a$$.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Reg Cæsar, @International Jew, @Spect3r, @interesting, @AndrewR

    Oh let them have Thomas Sowell.

    They lost Cosby and don’t have much left.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @John Johnson

    Boomers going to Boom.

    Well, they'll have Candace Owens when Sowell passes away. With demand this high for a conservative black friend, someone will always be there to fill that role.

    , @bruce county
    @John Johnson


    They lost Cosby and don’t have much left.
     
    I thought it was Tupac actually.
  39. What exactly miasma was comprised of was not fully clear. It was usually assumed to come from rotting vegetation or dead bodies (which led to the growth in popularity of cremation in the 19th century), or perhaps from the breath of foul creatures like toads. In any case, air was held to be more dangerous at night.

    Not really so silly. Before the age of microbiology people looked for causes of diseases, and no, they were not caused by marsh gases, but then marshes provided breeding places for mosquitos, and no, cholera was not caused by gases around the River Thames, but by sewerage polluted river water being pumped into public water supplies, and TB was not caused by marsh gases, but it was airborne.

    And the gases and smog produced by burning coal industrially and domestically were responsible to toxic gases that caused a lot of disease, especially lung disease.

    And air IS lower in oxygen at night, which affects some people with lung diseases. And sunlight DOES kill airborne bacteria. Funguses and molds, some of which can cause disease, DO grow where it is dark and damp.

    Consider that even today the transmission of Covid-19 is not fully understood.

    So naturally people looked for fresh air. A new city was named Buenos Aires (good airs) and Florence Nightingale believed in miasma and made her hospitals clean and light and airy and hygienic. (And sunlight was somewhat effective against TB.)

    There are a lot of silly theories about racism kicking around, but maybe if more had been done at the time that slavery ended, the end result might have been different.

    The racial politics in all the countries that have a history of black slavery are not exactly the same. There are 50 US states now, but a state was never designated as a homeland for black Americans, as once suggested by Nikita Krushchev. Only Liberia.

    The United States IS a huge country with vast natural resources. Surely it can do better in providing education, health care, housing, jobs, food, and transportation for all its citizens.

    I think where the race theorists go wrong is in assuming that this is a black/white issue. Why are the whites and blacks who cannot get adequate employment, health care, and housing not joining forces for change? Why are so many Americans living in trailer parks?

    But all the same, there IS a lot of racial jealousy. For example many white Americans ARE opposed to universal affordable health care because they think it will benefit blacks more than whites, and not because they truly believe that the current system of financing health care really leads to better outcomes for more people.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Jonathan Mason

    For example many white Americans ARE opposed to universal affordable health care because they think it will benefit blacks more than whites...

    You talk with a lot of Americans about health care down there in Ecuador, do you?

    , @Art Deco
    @Jonathan Mason

    The United States IS a huge country with vast natural resources. Surely it can do better in providing education, health care, housing, jobs, food, and transportation for all its citizens.

    It provides them just fine. Slum schools are awful because they're run by the issue of our schools of education operating under the dictates of courts and administrative agencies. If they were run by sensible people, the incorrigibles would be sequestered in jail-schools run by the local sheriff's department and the remaining students would be tracked according to their demonstrative absorptive capacity and schools could actually accomplish something. Of course, you'd have to hire teachers who know something and train them in serious apprenticeships. The schools of education impart no knowledge at all.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    , @Colin Wright
    @Jonathan Mason

    '...For example many white Americans ARE opposed to universal affordable health care because they think it will benefit blacks more than whites...'

    You sure about that? I'm white, and I'm American, and I'm very racist with respect to blacks, and I even have reservations concerning universal affordable health insurance -- but it never occurred to me to link the benefits blacks would receive versus those whites would receive to that.

    I mean, maybe I'm just dim-witted, but speaking as an avowed racist...

    Could it be that blacks are really awful, and there really are problems with 'universal etc.' -- but the two are unrelated? Think there might be anything to that?

    I'm racist, and I would criticize universal health care, but it's kind of like I'm racist, and I don't smoke. The one isn't necessarily related to the other.

    Now, I know you want to invalidate all possible criticism of Obamacare, but...

    The objections don't really have a whole lot to do with how one feels about Negroes.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

  40. Imagine that, a Coalition of the Fringe Right author (iSteve) bitterly complaining about a Coalition of the Fringe Left no author. And Normies wept…

    • Troll: Patrick in SC
    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Corvinus

    Imagine that, a Coalition of the Fringe Right author (iSteve) bitterly complaining about a Coalition of the Fringe Left no author. And Normies wept…

    Give me a break, as if they are comparable at all.

    One is comfortable with talking about evolution and humans while one is not.

    Gee whiz guess which one the academic establishment would happily pay for a lecture?

    The same academic establishment that mocks creationism as the invention of deluded religious Whites but race doesn't exist cause we say so.

    Steve is only fringe because human nature doesn't sync up with what egalitarians want it to be.

    So instead of facing that reality they make the Steves of the world fringe while giving lush careers to con artists like DiAngelo.

    In a just world we would be reading Steve in the NYTimes and DiAngelo would be a crazy woman on a street corner mumbling about how race is a social construct.

    Go back to clownworld. This fringe is my only break from the total stupidity that the establishment tries to pass off as intellectual work. DiAngelo would be reduced to the con that she is if she actually had to debate her theories with anyone here. That is the real difference. She is a fraud and wouldn't last a minute here.

    , @Morris Applebaum IV
    @Corvinus

    You're not really being honest here. Robin DiAngelo is a significant public figure and highly rewarded by the mainstream. In contrast, most people who read Steve Sailer wouldn't dare to even admit it publicly for fear of being canceled. A CEO would probably lose his job just for quoting Steve Sailer, yet could pay Robin DiAngelo 5-6 figures to give a speech.

    Replies: @Thomasina, @Corvinus

  41. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @interesting

    Thomas Sowell, the magic negro of the conservatives.

    Has the esteemed and oh-so-smart Mr. Sowell ever acknowledge that there are genetic differences between the races?

    If not (and he hasn't), then despite his IQ, he's worthless. A smart person who can't see obvious realities right in front of him isn't particularly useful.

    Take your pathetic colorblind civic nationalism and shove it up your a$$.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Reg Cæsar, @International Jew, @Spect3r, @interesting, @AndrewR

    If not (and he hasn’t), then despite his IQ, he’s worthless.

    When you get your counterpart to A Conflict of Visions published is when you get to call Sowell “worthless”. Not a moment sooner.

    You’re living up to your professed nationality.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Reg Cæsar

    Typical iSteve commentor response.

    I don't give a crap what he's published. He ignores the obvious reality of genetic racial differences.

    High IQ without common sense is worthless.

    Replies: @Richard B, @Forbes

  42. @Colin Wright
    ' "Racism Comes Out of Our Pores as White People"'

    Oh well. Time to celebrate who we are, then.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    ‘ “Racism Comes Out of Our Pores as White People”‘

    Oh well. Time to celebrate who we are, then.

    Yes. We have sweat glands.

    Other races are more similar to pigs. It remains within them, and they have to wallow in mud to release heat.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Reg Cæsar

    '...Other races are more similar to pigs. It remains within them, and they have to wallow in mud to release heat.'

    That's fairly hard-core. I was thinking more in terms of a return to Jim Crow and no more 'come one come all' immigration.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  43. @Jonathan Mason

    What exactly miasma was comprised of was not fully clear. It was usually assumed to come from rotting vegetation or dead bodies (which led to the growth in popularity of cremation in the 19th century), or perhaps from the breath of foul creatures like toads. In any case, air was held to be more dangerous at night.
     
    Not really so silly. Before the age of microbiology people looked for causes of diseases, and no, they were not caused by marsh gases, but then marshes provided breeding places for mosquitos, and no, cholera was not caused by gases around the River Thames, but by sewerage polluted river water being pumped into public water supplies, and TB was not caused by marsh gases, but it was airborne.

    And the gases and smog produced by burning coal industrially and domestically were responsible to toxic gases that caused a lot of disease, especially lung disease.

    And air IS lower in oxygen at night, which affects some people with lung diseases. And sunlight DOES kill airborne bacteria. Funguses and molds, some of which can cause disease, DO grow where it is dark and damp.

    Consider that even today the transmission of Covid-19 is not fully understood.

    So naturally people looked for fresh air. A new city was named Buenos Aires (good airs) and Florence Nightingale believed in miasma and made her hospitals clean and light and airy and hygienic. (And sunlight was somewhat effective against TB.)

    There are a lot of silly theories about racism kicking around, but maybe if more had been done at the time that slavery ended, the end result might have been different.

    The racial politics in all the countries that have a history of black slavery are not exactly the same. There are 50 US states now, but a state was never designated as a homeland for black Americans, as once suggested by Nikita Krushchev. Only Liberia.

    The United States IS a huge country with vast natural resources. Surely it can do better in providing education, health care, housing, jobs, food, and transportation for all its citizens.

    I think where the race theorists go wrong is in assuming that this is a black/white issue. Why are the whites and blacks who cannot get adequate employment, health care, and housing not joining forces for change? Why are so many Americans living in trailer parks?

    But all the same, there IS a lot of racial jealousy. For example many white Americans ARE opposed to universal affordable health care because they think it will benefit blacks more than whites, and not because they truly believe that the current system of financing health care really leads to better outcomes for more people.

    Replies: @anon, @Art Deco, @Colin Wright

    For example many white Americans ARE opposed to universal affordable health care because they think it will benefit blacks more than whites…

    You talk with a lot of Americans about health care down there in Ecuador, do you?

    • Agree: Colin Wright, ic1000
    • LOL: Redneck farmer
  44. @bomag
    History™ has now spoken: judge by the color of the skin, not by the content of the character.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    I think they* are trying to tell us to judge by the content of character, but at the same time telling us that whites have poor character by definition, because white privilege, and negroes have good character, despite the violence, because of systemic whiteness.

    What is perceived as poor character among negroes is actually good character when observed though the appropriate lens. Which they* provide. In related news, 2+2=5.

    *Our moral and intellectual superiors

  45. @Corvinus
    Imagine that, a Coalition of the Fringe Right author (iSteve) bitterly complaining about a Coalition of the Fringe Left no author. And Normies wept…

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Morris Applebaum IV

    Imagine that, a Coalition of the Fringe Right author (iSteve) bitterly complaining about a Coalition of the Fringe Left no author. And Normies wept…

    Give me a break, as if they are comparable at all.

    One is comfortable with talking about evolution and humans while one is not.

    Gee whiz guess which one the academic establishment would happily pay for a lecture?

    The same academic establishment that mocks creationism as the invention of deluded religious Whites but race doesn’t exist cause we say so.

    Steve is only fringe because human nature doesn’t sync up with what egalitarians want it to be.

    So instead of facing that reality they make the Steves of the world fringe while giving lush careers to con artists like DiAngelo.

    In a just world we would be reading Steve in the NYTimes and DiAngelo would be a crazy woman on a street corner mumbling about how race is a social construct.

    Go back to clownworld. This fringe is my only break from the total stupidity that the establishment tries to pass off as intellectual work. DiAngelo would be reduced to the con that she is if she actually had to debate her theories with anyone here. That is the real difference. She is a fraud and wouldn’t last a minute here.

    • Agree: ic1000
  46. @Bardon Kaldian
    Something is rotten in the culture of Anglo-Saxony. No other culture behaves so absurdly towards blacks (Latin, Slavic, east Asian, south Asian, Native American, ..)

    Replies: @Alan Mercer, @AndrewR

    Which of those cultures has been relentlessly browbeaten by its media and courts for 50+ years on the topic? Are our media and courts artifacts or (external) drivers of our culture?

  47. Rob says:

    Does anyone here have a feel for what the affirmatively auctioned black ‘leadership’ and management think?

    Like all those big dim black women in the government, do they know they’re swimming with floaties? Do they see how the whites always outthink them, and act much more pro-socially? Do the socially promoted blacks understand that they got into, say, Brown under much lower standards. I saw blacks in college react very, um, rambunctiously when whites tiled them things like they didn’t really get into X college. They are AAAAs. (What about affirmative action African-Americans in Alcoholics Anonymous and American Automobile Association? AAAAAAAAA. More A’s than they ever got in school.) Do they realize that without AA they wouldn’t be where they are, and would never get promoted. Are all corporate blacks in Diversity grafts, writing TPS reports on diversity and posing for photos of the diverse workforce?

    On yesterday’s topic of noticing the Taboo Differences, do you think whites who work closely with blacks must have noticed that their blacks are dumb. Do they manage to generalize? Murray’s piece in the Spectator mentioned that upper middle class whites lived in neighborhoods with blacks who are as smart as they are. Do the cloud people (hat tip to Z man) not notice that the blacks they live around are dimmer, on average? Especially, do they not notice that their black sons regress to a much lower mean IQ and much higher criminal tendencies? Do they blame racism?

    I have read in anthropology stuff that people don’t think tabooed things are untrue. They thing tabooed things are morally wrong. It could be that everyone knows about the differences, but thinks no one else knows. She also probably thinks she is a bad person for thinking these taboo thoughts. That makes her an easy target for people running white guilt scams.

    Shit. I think I just figured out the cause of white college-educated women’s vulnerability to things like Saira Rao, an Indian women who who gets white women to pay thousands of dollars (not clear if the total cost isc$2500, if ifbthat’s the price per victim) to get called racist. Rao is a Brahmin, of course.

    A white woman thinks a thought that violates the taboo, feels guilt, then projects her guilt onto society. To assuage her guilt, she joins Twitter mobs to take down people who she thinks are even more racist. In this way, thinking things that make her feel like a badwhite, she uses her knowledge of badwhite thought to destroy even worse whites. She is using her sin in the service of virtue!

    • Replies: @Spect3r
    @Rob

    "A white woman thinks a thought that violates the taboo, feels guilt, then projects her guilt onto society. To assuage her guilt, she joins Twitter mobs to take down people who she thinks are even more racist. In this way, thinking things that make her feel like a badwhite, she uses her knowledge of badwhite thought to destroy even worse whites. She is using her sin in the service of virtue!"

    This right here!
    Very well said, Sir.

  48. @James Speaks
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I met her. She was hot!

    She was also, shall we say, tempermental, but anger only enhanced her hotness.

    I'm a dinosaur.

    Replies: @International Jew

    She sure was. I don’t know why, but it’s really depressing to see what once-hot babes from my own youth look like now.

    • Replies: @black sea
    @International Jew

    I know why. It reminds you that all beauty is fleeting, the aging process is remorseless and devastating, and neither you nor she will ever be young again.

    Other than that, it's OK.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Harry Baldwin, @Desiderius

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @International Jew

    Poor soul, the centre of my sinful earth,
    Thrall to these rebel powers that thee array,
    Why dost thou pine within and suffer dearth,
    Painting thy outward walls so costly gay?

    Why so large cost, having so short a lease,
    Dost thou upon thy fading mansion spend?
    Shall worms, inheritors of this excess,
    Eat up thy charge? Is this thy body’s end?

    Then soul, live thou upon thy servant’s loss,
    And let that pine to aggravate thy store;
    Buy terms divine in selling hours of dross;
    Within be fed, without be rich no more:

    So shall thou feed on Death, that feeds on men,
    And Death once dead, there’s no more dying then.

    Sonnet 146

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe

  49. res says:
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Can we have a source for your claim? I tried looking it up and got nothing credible.

    Replies: @res

    Given that most people would consider the Unz Review not credible it seems appropriate to include the obvious hit.
    https://hailtoyou.wordpress.com/2020/08/03/who-radicalized-robin-diangelo-a-biographical-investigation-into-the-coiner-and-promoter-of-white-fragility-theory/

    Here is what we know: Robin DiAngelo was a serious international traveler in her youth, possibly late teens and twenties. According to her husband, at one point she lived on a kibbutz — a curious statement given that she is not Jewish and on which shortly.

    Also this. Note that the Internet Archive link given has disappeared. Funny how that works.

    As to what she was doing in young adulthood from the mid-1970s into the 1980s, this from DiAngelo’s husband:

    For a drive from Seattle to San Francisco, I once wrote up a 4-page, single-spaced itinerary, which I photocopied several times just in case one got misplaced. Robin is the opposite – early years spent drifting around the world from kibbutz to pizza parlor to hostel to catamaran made her a bold and resourceful traveler who prefers to “figure it out when we get there” or some such long-hair nonsense. So already we have a problem.

    Note that the poster is a commenter here. Perhaps he (?) could comment. Especially about the disappeared archive page.
    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Hail

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @res

    Res, time flies, but just so you know, Mr. E.H. Hail is probably not reading, and I see his last comment was over a year ago. He got just sick and tired of all the Flu Manchu hysteria that appeared on Mr. Sailer's and others' blogs/columns for a few months. I was almost ready to give up, but Mr. Sailer here started interspersing some of his usual good stuff toward late Spring, and now we're done hearing about it I hope.

    During that time, Mr. Hail wrote many, many very good posts about the Covid-19 on his site. Just for those who missed your link, it's the Hail to You blog.

    i.e., I doubt he'll write in on Robin DiAngelo, even though he is something of an expert on this piece of work. I hope otherwise though.

    , @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    I don't get it. The source is an unreferenced aside on a random blog? How would he know? Where does she say it? What am I missing?

    He mentions her husband might have said it; but where? Does he know her husband?


    Also this. Note that the Internet Archive link given has disappeared. Funny how that works.
     
    I don't understand which link you are referring to, nor what you are hinting at.

    I am especially interested in understanding specifically, concretely what you are hinting at.

    Replies: @res

  50. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @interesting

    Thomas Sowell, the magic negro of the conservatives.

    Has the esteemed and oh-so-smart Mr. Sowell ever acknowledge that there are genetic differences between the races?

    If not (and he hasn't), then despite his IQ, he's worthless. A smart person who can't see obvious realities right in front of him isn't particularly useful.

    Take your pathetic colorblind civic nationalism and shove it up your a$$.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Reg Cæsar, @International Jew, @Spect3r, @interesting, @AndrewR

    You’re asking more than is reasonable. Sowell is surely right that blacks could do much better than they’re doing now. Just give them the right incentives, ie enforce the law on their misbehavior, and end affirmative action, and it would be a whole new ballgame for all of us.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @International Jew

    I can acknowledge that NE Asians are on average smarter than Whites. Jews definitely seem to have an intellectual advantage over gentile Whites.

    There, that wasn't so hard.

    As to blacks and incentives, it's extremely condescending to keep asking them to act more White. They're not White. Let them be whom they are.

    The same is true with Whites and NE Asians. Whites just aren't grinders like Asians. It's wrong to demand that we act that way.

    Sure, with a tremendous amount of effort and cohesion, we can artificially get blacks to act more White for a time, just as I can hold a chair over my head for a time, but, ultimately, it's unnatural and temporary.

    Better to separate and let people live as they want.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

  51. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    When I see DiAngelo, I always think of the image of women who collaborated with the Germans in WWII being paraded around the streets with shaved heads.

    But she is right about one thing: In the eyes of non-Whites, all Whites (even super-victim Jews) are irredeemably racist and must be punished. That's what Murray with all of his brain power can't see and why his book/argument is so flawed.

    We're not voting - or debating - our way out this.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Right_On, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    women who collaborated with the Germans in WWII being paraded around the streets with shaved heads
    Many were ‘working girls’ – prostitutes. I always wonder if they were really that different from cab drivers, waiters or bartenders who were also happy to serve German officers.

  52. @JohnnyWalker123
    She lived on a Jewish Kibbutz when she was younger.

    Here are a couple of interesting comments that emerged during a previous discussion of her. These comments provide a glimpse into her true motives.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/who-is-robin-white-fragility-diangelo-anyway/#comment-4081929

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/who-is-robin-white-fragility-diangelo-anyway/#comment-4080734

    If you're a White Gentile who wants to be a part of the intelligentsia in today's America, you basically have to convert to Judaism. You may not become Jewish by blood, but you can be an honorary Jew.

    Let's retire the phrases "self-hating White" and "guilt-ridden White."

    Let's start using the phrase "Jewish convert."

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @John Johnson, @International Jew, @JerseyJeffersonian

    You don’t go to a kibbutz to become Jewish any more than you go to Oberlin College to become an 1830s-style Presbyterian. The kibbutz movement was explicitly anti-religious and pro-communist. It’s those things, most likely, that attracted her.

    • Agree: ic1000, Dissident
  53. @JohnnyWalker123
    She lived on a Jewish Kibbutz when she was younger.

    Here are a couple of interesting comments that emerged during a previous discussion of her. These comments provide a glimpse into her true motives.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/who-is-robin-white-fragility-diangelo-anyway/#comment-4081929

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/who-is-robin-white-fragility-diangelo-anyway/#comment-4080734

    If you're a White Gentile who wants to be a part of the intelligentsia in today's America, you basically have to convert to Judaism. You may not become Jewish by blood, but you can be an honorary Jew.

    Let's retire the phrases "self-hating White" and "guilt-ridden White."

    Let's start using the phrase "Jewish convert."

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @John Johnson, @International Jew, @JerseyJeffersonian

    Nope.

  54. Mostly OT:

    Victoria’s Secret is revising to fit the Current Year.

    https://pagesix.com/2021/06/16/megan-rapinoe-and-priyanka-chopra-join-victorias-secret-rebrand/

  55. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1405619863687733252?s=20

    That shift isn't to the right, nor is he necessarily wrong.

    Question is if he's right enough. Letting the adversary choose the time and place of battle is never a good idea.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Buck Ransom

    Kirk is trying to stay relevant. His astroturfed young-neo-con schtick wasn’t working in the Trump era, so he’s moving right. He’s an opportunist and a weasel. I wouldn’t trust him.

  56. @International Jew
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    You're asking more than is reasonable. Sowell is surely right that blacks could do much better than they're doing now. Just give them the right incentives, ie enforce the law on their misbehavior, and end affirmative action, and it would be a whole new ballgame for all of us.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

    I can acknowledge that NE Asians are on average smarter than Whites. Jews definitely seem to have an intellectual advantage over gentile Whites.

    There, that wasn’t so hard.

    As to blacks and incentives, it’s extremely condescending to keep asking them to act more White. They’re not White. Let them be whom they are.

    The same is true with Whites and NE Asians. Whites just aren’t grinders like Asians. It’s wrong to demand that we act that way.

    Sure, with a tremendous amount of effort and cohesion, we can artificially get blacks to act more White for a time, just as I can hold a chair over my head for a time, but, ultimately, it’s unnatural and temporary.

    Better to separate and let people live as they want.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Perhaps in some future, but Sowell tries to do good in these circumstances, without violence & some kind of Civil War.

    What would be use in insisting on blacks' lower IQ stats?

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

  57. @Reg Cæsar
    @Citizen of a Silly Country


    If not (and he hasn’t), then despite his IQ, he’s worthless.
     
    When you get your counterpart to A Conflict of Visions published is when you get to call Sowell "worthless". Not a moment sooner.

    You're living up to your professed nationality.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Typical iSteve commentor response.

    I don’t give a crap what he’s published. He ignores the obvious reality of genetic racial differences.

    High IQ without common sense is worthless.

    • Replies: @Richard B
    @Citizen of a Silly Country


    High IQ without common sense is worthless.
     
    So are both without political power.
    , @Forbes
    @Citizen of a Silly Country


    I don’t give a crap ...
     
    You want Sowell to behave like a minstrel, and dance to your tune and sing your song, by professing to your authority on some pet peeve. Mighty white of you.

    Obviously, you do give a crap. Two responses littered with ad hominem. Not giving a crap would mean not wasting the time to respond regarding someone declared worthless.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

  58. @John Johnson
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Oh let them have Thomas Sowell.

    They lost Cosby and don't have much left.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @bruce county

    Boomers going to Boom.

    Well, they’ll have Candace Owens when Sowell passes away. With demand this high for a conservative black friend, someone will always be there to fill that role.

  59. It’s amusing to read the comments and see how the Nazi types blame Jews for everything. One would think it’s pretty tough with a person who is so clearly not Jewish, but we have the answer: she might have stayed a kibbutz for a few nights for free! And we have a conspiracy, Jews somehow are deleting files so nobody finds out that she stayed a kibbutz. SMH Sorry, but it’s going to take more than six or even sixty degrees of Kevin Bacon to make Robin DiAngelo Jewish.

    I’m going to claim to be a Gentile because I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

    • Replies: @res
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    I am curious about her staying at a kibbutz as a matter of fact (especially since TL leaped on the statement). Not sure it is terribly relevant.


    Jews somehow are deleting files so nobody finds out that she stayed a kibbutz.
     
    Never said that. I just found it curious the page had been removed from the archive. Especially since Hail's piece was from less than a year ago. What would be your explanation?

    I'm not sure your "a good offense is the best defense" approach serves you well here. When I make vague statements indicating curiosity and then you turn them into something very different I start to wonder...

    Why are you and TL so sensitive about Robin DiAngelo maybe having visited a kibbutz in her youth?

    Replies: @Dissident

    , @Thomasina
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    "One would think it’s pretty tough with a person who is so clearly not Jewish."

    We do not know that.

  60. @Corvinus
    Imagine that, a Coalition of the Fringe Right author (iSteve) bitterly complaining about a Coalition of the Fringe Left no author. And Normies wept…

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Morris Applebaum IV

    You’re not really being honest here. Robin DiAngelo is a significant public figure and highly rewarded by the mainstream. In contrast, most people who read Steve Sailer wouldn’t dare to even admit it publicly for fear of being canceled. A CEO would probably lose his job just for quoting Steve Sailer, yet could pay Robin DiAngelo 5-6 figures to give a speech.

    • Replies: @Thomasina
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    "Robin DiAngelo is a significant public figure and highly rewarded by the mainstream."

    She only appears significant because she is being hailed and lauded by the elites and their mainstream lackeys. She has virtually no significance to the average citizen.

    Under the old Fairness Doctrine, she would be forced to debate her ridiculous claims. Under the current Unfairness Doctrine, she sits there, unchallenged, spouting her message as if it's the truth.

    A comedy.

    Replies: @anon, @John Johnson

    , @Corvinus
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    "Robin DiAngelo is a significant public figure and highly rewarded by the mainstream."

    Only within a subset of our population. To Normies? No. We never heard of her until recently. She is a fraud.

    "In contrast, most people who read Steve Sailer wouldn’t dare to even admit it publicly for fear of being canceled".

    Why? He is a moderate and a man who supports the rule of law.

  61. res says:
    @Morris Applebaum IV
    It's amusing to read the comments and see how the Nazi types blame Jews for everything. One would think it's pretty tough with a person who is so clearly not Jewish, but we have the answer: she might have stayed a kibbutz for a few nights for free! And we have a conspiracy, Jews somehow are deleting files so nobody finds out that she stayed a kibbutz. SMH Sorry, but it's going to take more than six or even sixty degrees of Kevin Bacon to make Robin DiAngelo Jewish.

    I'm going to claim to be a Gentile because I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

    Replies: @res, @Thomasina

    I am curious about her staying at a kibbutz as a matter of fact (especially since TL leaped on the statement). Not sure it is terribly relevant.

    Jews somehow are deleting files so nobody finds out that she stayed a kibbutz.

    Never said that. I just found it curious the page had been removed from the archive. Especially since Hail’s piece was from less than a year ago. What would be your explanation?

    I’m not sure your “a good offense is the best defense” approach serves you well here. When I make vague statements indicating curiosity and then you turn them into something very different I start to wonder…

    Why are you and TL so sensitive about Robin DiAngelo maybe having visited a kibbutz in her youth?

    • Replies: @Dissident
    @res


    Why are you and TL so sensitive about Robin DiAngelo maybe having visited a kibbutz in her youth?
     
    Doesn't that question, along with the rest of your comments in this thread on the matter, ignore-- persistently and rather conspicuously--
    some rather salient and germane context?

    Let us review for a moment, shall we? How did the whole DiAngelo kibbutz visit question get introduced into this thread in the first place? It was via a comment posted by JohnnyWalker123, which he began by making the assertion that Robin DiAngeleo had "lived on a Jewish Kibbutz when she was younger." Mr. Walker offered no evidence or citation in support of this claim. He linked to two comments from an August 2020 iSteve thread on Ms. DiAngelo, neither of which appear to contain any mention of the kibbutz claim.

    Mr. Walker then concluded his comment with the following statements.

    If you’re a White Gentile who wants to be a part of the intelligentsia in today’s America, you basically have to convert to Judaism. You may not become Jewish by blood, but you can be an honorary Jew.

    Let’s retire the phrases “self-hating White” and “guilt-ridden White.”

    Let’s start using the phrase “Jewish convert.”
     


    Wouldn't the above statements alone be more than sufficient to disabuse anyone of any benefit of the doubt he may have otherwise been inclined to afford Mr. Walker concerning his intentions and motivations in making the initial assertion that he did (even if it had been substantiated)?

    It so happens, however, that said statements are not alone. Nor are they an anomaly. Far from it, for Mr. Walker has an extensive history of making embarrassingly simplistic, over-the-top, low-rent blame the Jews comments, and regurgitating wild, unsubstantiated claims of vast, labyrinthine, implausible conspiracies, nearly all of which have The Jews as some monolithic, stealth diabolical force behind everything.

    If, in any of your comments in this thread you at any point acknowledged any of the factors I have enumerated and indicated above, or indicated that you took them into account, I missed it. What I most certainly did not miss, however, were your repeated, cavalier, references to the DiAngelo kibbutz matter as if it were merely some trivial, utterly innocuous matter devoid of the contextual, decidedly malicious implications that I enumerated above.

    Thus, I am left with no choice but to conclude either disingenuousness , or, if sincere, obtuseness/ lack of insight on your part.

    As if all that I have enumerated above were not enough, there is also an additional factor here that cannot be overlooked. This is, to be quite frank, the matter of your own reputation/persona as a commenter here. Now, to be clear, I would certainly not place you in the same category, neither as the aforementioned Mr. Walker nor of any number other individuals here who are, to varying degrees, excessively Jew-hostile and/or Jew-obsessed. Perhaps nowhere near the same category as any of the aforementioned. Nonetheless, the objective fact remains, if nothing else, the following. Out of what are thousands (?) of regular commenters to this site, you are one of a select few whom Mr. Ron Unz himself has singled-out for "elevation" as "excellent".

    Just how is that relevant here, you ask? Well, considering (A) that Mr. Unz's publicly stated rabidly anti-Judaic and anti-Jewish views include explicit endorsements of both the classic blood libel that Jews ritually murdered Christian children, as well as outright Holocaust denial; and (B) that at least two of the other individuals with whom you share the gold-star "elevated excellent commenter" distinction are, if anything, even more rabidly anti-Judaic and anti-Jewish in their expressed views than is Mr. Unz...

    Well, how surprising or even less-than-reasonable would it be for anyone who finds such views repellent to, based upon what I enumerated above, be even more wary, defensive or uncomfortable in relation to the comments of yours in question than said comments would already warrant? Yet another example, it would seem, that Jews aren't the only ones for whom self-awareness can be in short supply...

    Replies: @res

  62. @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Given that most people would consider the Unz Review not credible it seems appropriate to include the obvious hit.
    https://hailtoyou.wordpress.com/2020/08/03/who-radicalized-robin-diangelo-a-biographical-investigation-into-the-coiner-and-promoter-of-white-fragility-theory/


    Here is what we know: Robin DiAngelo was a serious international traveler in her youth, possibly late teens and twenties. According to her husband, at one point she lived on a kibbutz — a curious statement given that she is not Jewish and on which shortly.

     

    Also this. Note that the Internet Archive link given has disappeared. Funny how that works.

    As to what she was doing in young adulthood from the mid-1970s into the 1980s, this from DiAngelo’s husband:

    For a drive from Seattle to San Francisco, I once wrote up a 4-page, single-spaced itinerary, which I photocopied several times just in case one got misplaced. Robin is the opposite – early years spent drifting around the world from kibbutz to pizza parlor to hostel to catamaran made her a bold and resourceful traveler who prefers to “figure it out when we get there” or some such long-hair nonsense. So already we have a problem.
     
    Note that the poster is a commenter here. Perhaps he (?) could comment. Especially about the disappeared archive page.
    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Hail

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Triteleia Laxa

    Res, time flies, but just so you know, Mr. E.H. Hail is probably not reading, and I see his last comment was over a year ago. He got just sick and tired of all the Flu Manchu hysteria that appeared on Mr. Sailer’s and others’ blogs/columns for a few months. I was almost ready to give up, but Mr. Sailer here started interspersing some of his usual good stuff toward late Spring, and now we’re done hearing about it I hope.

    During that time, Mr. Hail wrote many, many very good posts about the Covid-19 on his site. Just for those who missed your link, it’s the Hail to You blog.

    i.e., I doubt he’ll write in on Robin DiAngelo, even though he is something of an expert on this piece of work. I hope otherwise though.

    • Thanks: res
  63. @216
    If GOP pols were worth any salt they would:

    -Ban the use of Ms. DiAngelo's book in K-12 education
    -Ban its use by any government contractor in training

    Replies: @SimpleSong

    While I have a seething hatred for DiAngelo, her schtick does do a few things:

    –it gets the White cowards, traitors, and masochists to show their true colors.
    –the remaining quality Whites, it unites them like nothing else.

  64. @Desiderius
    @Dieter Kief

    Well I wouldn't go that far.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    A comedy has to go over to the top – if not, it would be neither funny nor – interesting (entertaining, revealing, provoking thoughts…).

    Btw. blogger Hail-to-You has written an in-depth analysis of Robin DiAngelo and her scene 8state of mind/ her peers and collaborators).

    I praise his work highly!

    https://hailtoyou.wordpress.com/2020/07/22/on-white-fragility-and-the-academia-to-mainstream-pipeline-an-investigation-into-white-fragility-theory-and-its-life-cycle-from-2011-to-2020/

    https://hailtoyou.wordpress.com/2020/08/03/who-radicalized-robin-diangelo-a-biographical-investigation-into-the-coiner-and-promoter-of-white-fragility-theory/

  65. @International Jew
    @James Speaks

    She sure was. I don't know why, but it's really depressing to see what once-hot babes from my own youth look like now.

    Replies: @black sea, @Bardon Kaldian

    I know why. It reminds you that all beauty is fleeting, the aging process is remorseless and devastating, and neither you nor she will ever be young again.

    Other than that, it’s OK.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @black sea

    “For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror
    which we are barely able to endure, and it amazes us so,
    because it serenely disdains to destroy us.
    Every angel is terrible.”

    ― Rainer Maria Rilke discovered that - in his later years when he wrote the (once? famous) elegant and insightful - Duino Elegies - - - in utterly beautiful - - - - -Dunio in the Swiss alps.

    Replies: @black sea

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @black sea

    It reminds you that all beauty is fleeting, the aging process is remorseless and devastating, and neither you nor she will ever be young again.

    And that, along with the disappointments and disillusion life hands us along the way, helps reconcile us to our mortality. So, hey, it's all for the best!

    It's tough to look at a picture of Brigitte Bardot today, but I admire her apparent willingness to accept her age and not go nuts with the plastic surgery.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    , @Desiderius
    @black sea

    This is why organic life (characterized by reproduction) beats the alternatives.

    Hope springs eternal in the human breast and beauty in the loins.

    Replies: @Dissident

  66. @black sea
    @International Jew

    I know why. It reminds you that all beauty is fleeting, the aging process is remorseless and devastating, and neither you nor she will ever be young again.

    Other than that, it's OK.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Harry Baldwin, @Desiderius

    “For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror
    which we are barely able to endure, and it amazes us so,
    because it serenely disdains to destroy us.
    Every angel is terrible.”

    ― Rainer Maria Rilke discovered that – in his later years when he wrote the (once? famous) elegant and insightful – Duino Elegies – – – in utterly beautiful – – – – -Dunio in the Swiss alps.

    • Replies: @black sea
    @Dieter Kief

    Yes, a marvelous poet, but you know, he never wrote anything like this:

    If we merge mercy with might,
    and might with right,
    then love becomes our legacy
    and change our children's birthright

    --"The Hill We Climb"

  67. @Morris Applebaum IV
    @Corvinus

    You're not really being honest here. Robin DiAngelo is a significant public figure and highly rewarded by the mainstream. In contrast, most people who read Steve Sailer wouldn't dare to even admit it publicly for fear of being canceled. A CEO would probably lose his job just for quoting Steve Sailer, yet could pay Robin DiAngelo 5-6 figures to give a speech.

    Replies: @Thomasina, @Corvinus

    “Robin DiAngelo is a significant public figure and highly rewarded by the mainstream.”

    She only appears significant because she is being hailed and lauded by the elites and their mainstream lackeys. She has virtually no significance to the average citizen.

    Under the old Fairness Doctrine, she would be forced to debate her ridiculous claims. Under the current Unfairness Doctrine, she sits there, unchallenged, spouting her message as if it’s the truth.

    A comedy.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @anon
    @Thomasina

    She only appears significant because she is being hailed and lauded by the elites and their mainstream lackeys.

    So?

    She has virtually no significance to the average citizen.

    Until Mr. Average Citizen is volunteered to attend mandatory "Wypipo Be Ebil and Fragile" training at his place of employment. Then DiAngelo's significance will become obvious, even if she's not there in person.

    Replies: @Thomasina

    , @John Johnson
    @Thomasina

    Under the old Fairness Doctrine, she would be forced to debate her ridiculous claims. Under the current Unfairness Doctrine, she sits there, unchallenged, spouting her message as if it’s the truth.

    That isn't how it worked. They didn't have to provide both sides to an issue. What they had to do was show that they had a diversity of viewpoints.

    Both mainstream right and left would be terrified if they had provide all points of view regarding race.

    Replies: @Thomasina

  68. @Morris Applebaum IV
    It's amusing to read the comments and see how the Nazi types blame Jews for everything. One would think it's pretty tough with a person who is so clearly not Jewish, but we have the answer: she might have stayed a kibbutz for a few nights for free! And we have a conspiracy, Jews somehow are deleting files so nobody finds out that she stayed a kibbutz. SMH Sorry, but it's going to take more than six or even sixty degrees of Kevin Bacon to make Robin DiAngelo Jewish.

    I'm going to claim to be a Gentile because I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

    Replies: @res, @Thomasina

    “One would think it’s pretty tough with a person who is so clearly not Jewish.”

    We do not know that.

  69. @black sea
    @International Jew

    I know why. It reminds you that all beauty is fleeting, the aging process is remorseless and devastating, and neither you nor she will ever be young again.

    Other than that, it's OK.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Harry Baldwin, @Desiderius

    It reminds you that all beauty is fleeting, the aging process is remorseless and devastating, and neither you nor she will ever be young again.

    And that, along with the disappointments and disillusion life hands us along the way, helps reconcile us to our mortality. So, hey, it’s all for the best!

    It’s tough to look at a picture of Brigitte Bardot today, but I admire her apparent willingness to accept her age and not go nuts with the plastic surgery.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Harry Baldwin

    Giorgione's Laura with time ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81OAnB5vRZA

  70. She’d landed a job leading workshops on racism.

    In other words, she embarked on the career of a con man.

    It’s like being a gypsy for live, only you have to pay taxes.

  71. @Dieter Kief
    @black sea

    “For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror
    which we are barely able to endure, and it amazes us so,
    because it serenely disdains to destroy us.
    Every angel is terrible.”

    ― Rainer Maria Rilke discovered that - in his later years when he wrote the (once? famous) elegant and insightful - Duino Elegies - - - in utterly beautiful - - - - -Dunio in the Swiss alps.

    Replies: @black sea

    Yes, a marvelous poet, but you know, he never wrote anything like this:

    If we merge mercy with might,
    and might with right,
    then love becomes our legacy
    and change our children’s birthright

    –“The Hill We Climb”

  72. @Ano
    Dear Mr Sailer,

    I can cure you of your racism.

    Let me. Please!

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fb/14/09/fb1409e7e41a6465ba559ece9177a858--gold-paint-urban-legends.jpg

    Yours,

    Auric Goldfinger

    PS: Bill Gates and all the other Bond Villians here at Davos say hi!

    Replies: @Pericles

    Goldfinger levels up when you know the background.

  73. She’d landed a job leading workshops on racism. And she met a man who became very angry, and pounded on a table. He said white people are the target of discrimination, white people can’t even find jobs anymore.

    DiAngelo looked around the office and she saw nothing but white people, all of them with jobs.

    Di Angelo has a (paid) workshop denouncing whites and all she can see around her is white office workers, some which don’t like being denounced. Suddenly … like a bolt of lightning. No wonder she’s paid the big bucks.

  74. @International Jew
    @James Speaks

    She sure was. I don't know why, but it's really depressing to see what once-hot babes from my own youth look like now.

    Replies: @black sea, @Bardon Kaldian

    Poor soul, the centre of my sinful earth,
    Thrall to these rebel powers that thee array,
    Why dost thou pine within and suffer dearth,
    Painting thy outward walls so costly gay?

    Why so large cost, having so short a lease,
    Dost thou upon thy fading mansion spend?
    Shall worms, inheritors of this excess,
    Eat up thy charge? Is this thy body’s end?

    Then soul, live thou upon thy servant’s loss,
    And let that pine to aggravate thy store;
    Buy terms divine in selling hours of dross;
    Within be fed, without be rich no more:

    So shall thou feed on Death, that feeds on men,
    And Death once dead, there’s no more dying then.

    Sonnet 146

    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    @Bardon Kaldian

    That poet(whoever he really was) knew how to write.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

  75. @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Given that most people would consider the Unz Review not credible it seems appropriate to include the obvious hit.
    https://hailtoyou.wordpress.com/2020/08/03/who-radicalized-robin-diangelo-a-biographical-investigation-into-the-coiner-and-promoter-of-white-fragility-theory/


    Here is what we know: Robin DiAngelo was a serious international traveler in her youth, possibly late teens and twenties. According to her husband, at one point she lived on a kibbutz — a curious statement given that she is not Jewish and on which shortly.

     

    Also this. Note that the Internet Archive link given has disappeared. Funny how that works.

    As to what she was doing in young adulthood from the mid-1970s into the 1980s, this from DiAngelo’s husband:

    For a drive from Seattle to San Francisco, I once wrote up a 4-page, single-spaced itinerary, which I photocopied several times just in case one got misplaced. Robin is the opposite – early years spent drifting around the world from kibbutz to pizza parlor to hostel to catamaran made her a bold and resourceful traveler who prefers to “figure it out when we get there” or some such long-hair nonsense. So already we have a problem.
     
    Note that the poster is a commenter here. Perhaps he (?) could comment. Especially about the disappeared archive page.
    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Hail

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Triteleia Laxa

    I don’t get it. The source is an unreferenced aside on a random blog? How would he know? Where does she say it? What am I missing?

    He mentions her husband might have said it; but where? Does he know her husband?

    Also this. Note that the Internet Archive link given has disappeared. Funny how that works.

    I don’t understand which link you are referring to, nor what you are hinting at.

    I am especially interested in understanding specifically, concretely what you are hinting at.

    • Replies: @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Here is my second excerpt with the same formatting I used before.


    As to what she was doing in young adulthood from the mid-1970s into the 1980s, this from DiAngelo’s husband:

    For a drive from Seattle to San Francisco, I once wrote up a 4-page, single-spaced itinerary, which I photocopied several times just in case one got misplaced. Robin is the opposite – early years spent drifting around the world from kibbutz to pizza parlor to hostel to catamaran made her a bold and resourceful traveler who prefers to “figure it out when we get there” or some such long-hair nonsense. So already we have a problem.
     
    As the first paragraph says, the italicized portion is from her husband. The blue "this" is a hyperlink which was presumably the original source:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20200618080142/https://thefifiorganization.net/travel/thailand-2017-part-1/

    If you try to access that archive page now you get: "This URL has been excluded from the Wayback Machine."

    This page talks about how to retroactively exclude pages from the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine.
    https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/143529/is-it-possible-to-request-to-remove-page-snapshots-from-a-personal-social-media

    Hail's post was less than a year ago on 8/3/20. The archive page was from a year ago today 6/18/20. Assuming Hail was telling the truth, the page included the text which I quoted in italics and was purported to be written by her husband.

    My hinting was about the tendency of inconvenient evidence to disappear (and not by accident, since a request must be made). A good reason to make personal backups of interesting pages.

    Did that cover everything?

    P.S. I was a bit terse in my excerpts, but the full link (first link in my earlier comment) expanded on things.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Triteleia Laxa

  76. Hostility toward members of other racial or ethnic groups is genetically encoded. Tribes of hunter-gatherers that weren’t hostile to members of other tribes didn’t survive to reproduce. The reaction is instinctual.

    Europeans have this instinct. So does every other surviving racial and ethnic group.

    What these race-grifters claim to want is for Europeans to love all blacks as a group. That is never going to happen because it is contrary to human nature, as well as being profoundly nutty.

    But being impossible is a feature, not a bug. Being impossible ensures that the grift is a long-term earner for the grifters.

  77. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @interesting

    Thomas Sowell, the magic negro of the conservatives.

    Has the esteemed and oh-so-smart Mr. Sowell ever acknowledge that there are genetic differences between the races?

    If not (and he hasn't), then despite his IQ, he's worthless. A smart person who can't see obvious realities right in front of him isn't particularly useful.

    Take your pathetic colorblind civic nationalism and shove it up your a$$.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Reg Cæsar, @International Jew, @Spect3r, @interesting, @AndrewR

    The obsession with IQ in this site is borderline insane. IQ means nothing when you dont do anything properly with it.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Spect3r

    It's like the dick size.

    Judging from rumors, the great Lothario Clark Gable was ... eh .....

    https://groups.google.com/g/alt.showbiz.gossip/c/drcoS6Gs-bI

    Clark Gable was called the King of Hollywood, but an old-time movie star once
    said that he was so small, he was practically the Queen of Hollywood.

    It's what you do with it ....

    , @Wade Hampton
    @Spect3r

    The obsession with height in the NBA is borderline insane. Height means nothing when you don't do anything with it.

    Replies: @Spect3r

    , @Wolf Barney
    @Spect3r

    IQ certainly is mentioned a lot here, but it's not the only thing that illustrates differences between racial groups. There are also differences like ethnocentrism, high trust/low trust, impulse control, time preference, creativity, conformity, etc.

  78. @Rob
    Does anyone here have a feel for what the affirmatively auctioned black ‘leadership’ and management think?

    Like all those big dim black women in the government, do they know they’re swimming with floaties? Do they see how the whites always outthink them, and act much more pro-socially? Do the socially promoted blacks understand that they got into, say, Brown under much lower standards. I saw blacks in college react very, um, rambunctiously when whites tiled them things like they didn’t really get into X college. They are AAAAs. (What about affirmative action African-Americans in Alcoholics Anonymous and American Automobile Association? AAAAAAAAA. More A’s than they ever got in school.) Do they realize that without AA they wouldn’t be where they are, and would never get promoted. Are all corporate blacks in Diversity grafts, writing TPS reports on diversity and posing for photos of the diverse workforce?

    On yesterday’s topic of noticing the Taboo Differences, do you think whites who work closely with blacks must have noticed that their blacks are dumb. Do they manage to generalize? Murray’s piece in the Spectator mentioned that upper middle class whites lived in neighborhoods with blacks who are as smart as they are. Do the cloud people (hat tip to Z man) not notice that the blacks they live around are dimmer, on average? Especially, do they not notice that their black sons regress to a much lower mean IQ and much higher criminal tendencies? Do they blame racism?

    I have read in anthropology stuff that people don’t think tabooed things are untrue. They thing tabooed things are morally wrong. It could be that everyone knows about the differences, but thinks no one else knows. She also probably thinks she is a bad person for thinking these taboo thoughts. That makes her an easy target for people running white guilt scams.

    Shit. I think I just figured out the cause of white college-educated women’s vulnerability to things like Saira Rao, an Indian women who who gets white women to pay thousands of dollars (not clear if the total cost isc$2500, if ifbthat’s the price per victim) to get called racist. Rao is a Brahmin, of course.

    A white woman thinks a thought that violates the taboo, feels guilt, then projects her guilt onto society. To assuage her guilt, she joins Twitter mobs to take down people who she thinks are even more racist. In this way, thinking things that make her feel like a badwhite, she uses her knowledge of badwhite thought to destroy even worse whites. She is using her sin in the service of virtue!

    Replies: @Spect3r

    “A white woman thinks a thought that violates the taboo, feels guilt, then projects her guilt onto society. To assuage her guilt, she joins Twitter mobs to take down people who she thinks are even more racist. In this way, thinking things that make her feel like a badwhite, she uses her knowledge of badwhite thought to destroy even worse whites. She is using her sin in the service of virtue!”

    This right here!
    Very well said, Sir.

  79. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    When I see DiAngelo, I always think of the image of women who collaborated with the Germans in WWII being paraded around the streets with shaved heads.

    But she is right about one thing: In the eyes of non-Whites, all Whites (even super-victim Jews) are irredeemably racist and must be punished. That's what Murray with all of his brain power can't see and why his book/argument is so flawed.

    We're not voting - or debating - our way out this.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Right_On, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    “When I see DiAngelo, I always think of the image of women who collaborated with the Germans in WWII being paraded around the streets with shaved heads.”

    Well, somebody needs to drag her out for a midnight ride to the fellas wearing the hoods and bearing the electric clippers. That’s about the only way this is gonna come to an end.

  80. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Reg Cæsar

    Typical iSteve commentor response.

    I don't give a crap what he's published. He ignores the obvious reality of genetic racial differences.

    High IQ without common sense is worthless.

    Replies: @Richard B, @Forbes

    High IQ without common sense is worthless.

    So are both without political power.

  81. @Jonathan Mason

    What exactly miasma was comprised of was not fully clear. It was usually assumed to come from rotting vegetation or dead bodies (which led to the growth in popularity of cremation in the 19th century), or perhaps from the breath of foul creatures like toads. In any case, air was held to be more dangerous at night.
     
    Not really so silly. Before the age of microbiology people looked for causes of diseases, and no, they were not caused by marsh gases, but then marshes provided breeding places for mosquitos, and no, cholera was not caused by gases around the River Thames, but by sewerage polluted river water being pumped into public water supplies, and TB was not caused by marsh gases, but it was airborne.

    And the gases and smog produced by burning coal industrially and domestically were responsible to toxic gases that caused a lot of disease, especially lung disease.

    And air IS lower in oxygen at night, which affects some people with lung diseases. And sunlight DOES kill airborne bacteria. Funguses and molds, some of which can cause disease, DO grow where it is dark and damp.

    Consider that even today the transmission of Covid-19 is not fully understood.

    So naturally people looked for fresh air. A new city was named Buenos Aires (good airs) and Florence Nightingale believed in miasma and made her hospitals clean and light and airy and hygienic. (And sunlight was somewhat effective against TB.)

    There are a lot of silly theories about racism kicking around, but maybe if more had been done at the time that slavery ended, the end result might have been different.

    The racial politics in all the countries that have a history of black slavery are not exactly the same. There are 50 US states now, but a state was never designated as a homeland for black Americans, as once suggested by Nikita Krushchev. Only Liberia.

    The United States IS a huge country with vast natural resources. Surely it can do better in providing education, health care, housing, jobs, food, and transportation for all its citizens.

    I think where the race theorists go wrong is in assuming that this is a black/white issue. Why are the whites and blacks who cannot get adequate employment, health care, and housing not joining forces for change? Why are so many Americans living in trailer parks?

    But all the same, there IS a lot of racial jealousy. For example many white Americans ARE opposed to universal affordable health care because they think it will benefit blacks more than whites, and not because they truly believe that the current system of financing health care really leads to better outcomes for more people.

    Replies: @anon, @Art Deco, @Colin Wright

    The United States IS a huge country with vast natural resources. Surely it can do better in providing education, health care, housing, jobs, food, and transportation for all its citizens.

    It provides them just fine. Slum schools are awful because they’re run by the issue of our schools of education operating under the dictates of courts and administrative agencies. If they were run by sensible people, the incorrigibles would be sequestered in jail-schools run by the local sheriff’s department and the remaining students would be tracked according to their demonstrative absorptive capacity and schools could actually accomplish something. Of course, you’d have to hire teachers who know something and train them in serious apprenticeships. The schools of education impart no knowledge at all.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Art Deco

    The one in which I taught did a bang up business in after-school online GEDs for those who had belatedly discovered the value of an education.

    All about motivation.

  82. I like your miasma theory. Another example of a failed scientific theory is the (non)existence of the ether to explain how electro magnetic energy travels through space. Light travels at a known speed. It has many wave like properties. Therefore it must travel in waves through a transmitting substance called the ether. Except that it doesn’t exist. A very elaborate experiment failed to demonstrate it. In fact light travels as particles which have both particle and wave characteristics. Systemic racism as pushed by Kendi and others, doesn’t exist.

  83. @Spect3r
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    The obsession with IQ in this site is borderline insane. IQ means nothing when you dont do anything properly with it.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Wade Hampton, @Wolf Barney

    It’s like the dick size.

    Judging from rumors, the great Lothario Clark Gable was … eh …..

    https://groups.google.com/g/alt.showbiz.gossip/c/drcoS6Gs-bI

    Clark Gable was called the King of Hollywood, but an old-time movie star once
    said that he was so small, he was practically the Queen of Hollywood.

    It’s what you do with it ….

  84. Death to all anti-Ws.

  85. @Harry Baldwin
    @black sea

    It reminds you that all beauty is fleeting, the aging process is remorseless and devastating, and neither you nor she will ever be young again.

    And that, along with the disappointments and disillusion life hands us along the way, helps reconcile us to our mortality. So, hey, it's all for the best!

    It's tough to look at a picture of Brigitte Bardot today, but I admire her apparent willingness to accept her age and not go nuts with the plastic surgery.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Giorgione’s Laura with time …

  86. DiAngelo is correct in one sense: We all prejudge based on group differences when all we know about someone is their group affiliation. This will never change and doing so is a fool’s errand.

    When it really matters though, like for hiring, etc. we gather more information and we (should) judge people as individuals and their group affiliation ceases to have any meaning.

  87. @black sea
    @International Jew

    I know why. It reminds you that all beauty is fleeting, the aging process is remorseless and devastating, and neither you nor she will ever be young again.

    Other than that, it's OK.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Harry Baldwin, @Desiderius

    This is why organic life (characterized by reproduction) beats the alternatives.

    Hope springs eternal in the human breast and beauty in the loins.

    • Replies: @Dissident
    @Desiderius

    black sea:


    It reminds you that all beauty is fleeting, the aging process is remorseless and devastating, and neither you nor she will ever be young again.
     
    Beauty of character is not fleeting.

    Harry Baldwin:


    And that, along with the disappointments and disillusion life hands us along the way, helps reconcile us to our mortality.
     
    How many ever do reconcile themselves with their own mortality?

    Desiderius:


    This is why organic life (characterized by reproduction) beats the alternatives.
     
    Without reproduction...there is no life.

    Hope springs eternal in the human breast and beauty in the loins.
     

    So here's to the girls on the go-
    Everybody tries.
    Look into their eyes and you'll see what they know.
    Everybody dies.

     
    Every young man thinks he is immortal; invincible.
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/bies/55539544/
  88. @Art Deco
    @Jonathan Mason

    The United States IS a huge country with vast natural resources. Surely it can do better in providing education, health care, housing, jobs, food, and transportation for all its citizens.

    It provides them just fine. Slum schools are awful because they're run by the issue of our schools of education operating under the dictates of courts and administrative agencies. If they were run by sensible people, the incorrigibles would be sequestered in jail-schools run by the local sheriff's department and the remaining students would be tracked according to their demonstrative absorptive capacity and schools could actually accomplish something. Of course, you'd have to hire teachers who know something and train them in serious apprenticeships. The schools of education impart no knowledge at all.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    The one in which I taught did a bang up business in after-school online GEDs for those who had belatedly discovered the value of an education.

    All about motivation.

  89. @Morris Applebaum IV
    @Corvinus

    You're not really being honest here. Robin DiAngelo is a significant public figure and highly rewarded by the mainstream. In contrast, most people who read Steve Sailer wouldn't dare to even admit it publicly for fear of being canceled. A CEO would probably lose his job just for quoting Steve Sailer, yet could pay Robin DiAngelo 5-6 figures to give a speech.

    Replies: @Thomasina, @Corvinus

    “Robin DiAngelo is a significant public figure and highly rewarded by the mainstream.”

    Only within a subset of our population. To Normies? No. We never heard of her until recently. She is a fraud.

    “In contrast, most people who read Steve Sailer wouldn’t dare to even admit it publicly for fear of being canceled”.

    Why? He is a moderate and a man who supports the rule of law.

  90. anon[106] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomasina
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    "Robin DiAngelo is a significant public figure and highly rewarded by the mainstream."

    She only appears significant because she is being hailed and lauded by the elites and their mainstream lackeys. She has virtually no significance to the average citizen.

    Under the old Fairness Doctrine, she would be forced to debate her ridiculous claims. Under the current Unfairness Doctrine, she sits there, unchallenged, spouting her message as if it's the truth.

    A comedy.

    Replies: @anon, @John Johnson

    She only appears significant because she is being hailed and lauded by the elites and their mainstream lackeys.

    So?

    She has virtually no significance to the average citizen.

    Until Mr. Average Citizen is volunteered to attend mandatory “Wypipo Be Ebil and Fragile” training at his place of employment. Then DiAngelo’s significance will become obvious, even if she’s not there in person.

    • Replies: @Thomasina
    @anon

    Another poster with a "disclaimer" after their "anonymous" name.

    Not even worth replying to.

  91. @Thomasina
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    "Robin DiAngelo is a significant public figure and highly rewarded by the mainstream."

    She only appears significant because she is being hailed and lauded by the elites and their mainstream lackeys. She has virtually no significance to the average citizen.

    Under the old Fairness Doctrine, she would be forced to debate her ridiculous claims. Under the current Unfairness Doctrine, she sits there, unchallenged, spouting her message as if it's the truth.

    A comedy.

    Replies: @anon, @John Johnson

    Under the old Fairness Doctrine, she would be forced to debate her ridiculous claims. Under the current Unfairness Doctrine, she sits there, unchallenged, spouting her message as if it’s the truth.

    That isn’t how it worked. They didn’t have to provide both sides to an issue. What they had to do was show that they had a diversity of viewpoints.

    Both mainstream right and left would be terrified if they had provide all points of view regarding race.

    • Replies: @Thomasina
    @John Johnson

    "That isn’t how it worked. They didn’t have to provide both sides to an issue. What they had to do was show that they had a diversity of viewpoints."

    Well, whatever. Little Miss Significance SHOULD have had somebody sitting beside her refuting her nonsense, or at least challenged a little by the interviewer. On important matters such as this, some good, strong dissenting opinions should have been offered by MSM. This was not done.

    Replies: @anon

  92. @John Johnson
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Oh let them have Thomas Sowell.

    They lost Cosby and don't have much left.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @bruce county

    They lost Cosby and don’t have much left.

    I thought it was Tupac actually.

  93. @Anon
    I hire about 10 people a year, between turnover and expansion.

    A year ago- right around this time! - I stopped hiring black people. I really looked at it and decided I had always made accommodations in those hires you know, "to do the right thing."

    Some of the hires were pretty good! Some, not so much. Most, about as good as they usually are.

    But that was the last 7 years- for the next 7 - or until I get a better job, or maybe they figure it out, no more.

    What do you expect? I was racist all those years, why let everyone down?

    You are what people pretend you to be.

    Replies: @Seneca44

    The American blacks I’ve hired to just do the work have shown their true colors after about a year in 100% of the cases. There is always eventually a conflict where the boss insists on doing things his way because that’s what he thinks best and it is his company. That’s when the race card is played and a white boss can never overcome it.

    • Agree: bruce county
  94. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Reg Cæsar

    Typical iSteve commentor response.

    I don't give a crap what he's published. He ignores the obvious reality of genetic racial differences.

    High IQ without common sense is worthless.

    Replies: @Richard B, @Forbes

    I don’t give a crap …

    You want Sowell to behave like a minstrel, and dance to your tune and sing your song, by professing to your authority on some pet peeve. Mighty white of you.

    Obviously, you do give a crap. Two responses littered with ad hominem. Not giving a crap would mean not wasting the time to respond regarding someone declared worthless.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Forbes

    I want Sowell to acknowledge the obvious truth of average racial genetic differences instead of peddling destructive lies about culture causing black underperformance.

    I notice that you didn't explain why Sowell is missing this obvious truth or why you have such respect for a man who speaks often about race but who can't or won't accept that genetics play a major role.

  95. @John Johnson
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    When I see DiAngelo, I always think of the image of women who collaborated with the Germans in WWII being paraded around the streets with shaved heads.

    I see a woman that needs to be pounded in the parking lot of a dive bar.

    Her face is just filled with stress.

    I supposed I too would be stressed if I had to make a living by denigrating my own racial group while trying to pretend that evolution somehow doesn't apply to humans.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    She’s really old, dude. That’s gross. Bring lots of lube.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @AndrewR

    She’s really old, dude. That’s gross. Bring lots of lube.

    I wasn't volunteering.

    Just providing the prescription.

  96. @Bardon Kaldian
    Something is rotten in the culture of Anglo-Saxony. No other culture behaves so absurdly towards blacks (Latin, Slavic, east Asian, south Asian, Native American, ..)

    Replies: @Alan Mercer, @AndrewR

    Brazil is getting BLM’d. It’s taking a while but it’s happening.

  97. @Gaspar DeLaFunk
    White women can be so stupid.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    You might wanna smash that “Early Life” button

    • Replies: @anon
    @AndrewR



    White women can be so stupid.
     
    You might wanna smash that “Early Life” button
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_DiAngelo#Early_life

    DiAngelo was born Robin Jeanne Taylor into a working-class family in San Jose, California, the youngest of three daughters born to Robert Z. Taylor and Maryanne Jeanne DiAngelo.[3][4] Her parents divorced when she was two and the family fell into poverty. When DiAngelo was ten years old her mother died of cancer, after which time she and her sisters went to live with their father.[5]

    She has written that her "experience of poverty would have been different had [she] not been white”, reflecting that although she feels that she faced "class oppression", she also benefited from "racial privilege".[6]
     
    ?
  98. @interesting
    "She’d landed a job leading workshops on racism"

    The race industry. There's boatloads of money to be made selling hate.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTOCyAPUFMk&t=23s

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @David

    PwC is promising to spend $12 billion hiring 100,000 Environmental, Social and Governance (ESG) experts, including 10,000 Black and LatinX from US inner cities.

    Companies and investors are more frequently examining their impact on the environment and scrutinizing diversity within their ranks, initiatives that extend beyond the traditional financial accounting and auditing services that PwC has long provided.

    U.S. companies are also now gearing up for potential regulatory oversight of their environmental disclosures, board diversity and workforce.

    https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2021/06/16/618744.htm

  99. @Spect3r
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    The obsession with IQ in this site is borderline insane. IQ means nothing when you dont do anything properly with it.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Wade Hampton, @Wolf Barney

    The obsession with height in the NBA is borderline insane. Height means nothing when you don’t do anything with it.

    • Replies: @Spect3r
    @Wade Hampton

    Height means nothing without skill.
    IQ means nothing if isn't used to anything proper, substantial, etc.

    Replies: @Wade Hampton

  100. @Spect3r
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    The obsession with IQ in this site is borderline insane. IQ means nothing when you dont do anything properly with it.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Wade Hampton, @Wolf Barney

    IQ certainly is mentioned a lot here, but it’s not the only thing that illustrates differences between racial groups. There are also differences like ethnocentrism, high trust/low trust, impulse control, time preference, creativity, conformity, etc.

  101. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @interesting

    Thomas Sowell, the magic negro of the conservatives.

    Has the esteemed and oh-so-smart Mr. Sowell ever acknowledge that there are genetic differences between the races?

    If not (and he hasn't), then despite his IQ, he's worthless. A smart person who can't see obvious realities right in front of him isn't particularly useful.

    Take your pathetic colorblind civic nationalism and shove it up your a$$.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Reg Cæsar, @International Jew, @Spect3r, @interesting, @AndrewR

    Damn dude. Because I think what T.S. says is the truth and logical I must be a conservative?

    I am apolitical you give me an issue and I’ll give you my side. And I don’t listen to Thomas Sowell because he’s black I do so because he’s right.

    I believe that most “differences” are cultural. If little black boys were taught the passion for learning the same way as little Asian/white boys are, they could achieve all they ever wanted. I have way to much personal experience that proves that out.

    But liberals don’t want their pets thinking for themselves and “acting white” so they shower the whole group with praise and accolades for being failures which is why they elevate career criminals killed by police to hero status.

    p.s. and lets not forget other black authors with good insights.

    Shelby Steele
    Jason Riley
    Coleman Hughes
    “the sage from south central” Larry Elder
    Leo Terrell

    and then out on the fringe

    Tommy Sotomayor
    David Carroll

    • Replies: @anon
    @interesting

    If little black boys were taught the passion for learning the same way as little Asian/white boys are, they could achieve all they ever wanted. I have way to much personal experience that proves that out.

    Please elaborate. How many black children have you raised?

  102. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @interesting

    Thomas Sowell, the magic negro of the conservatives.

    Has the esteemed and oh-so-smart Mr. Sowell ever acknowledge that there are genetic differences between the races?

    If not (and he hasn't), then despite his IQ, he's worthless. A smart person who can't see obvious realities right in front of him isn't particularly useful.

    Take your pathetic colorblind civic nationalism and shove it up your a$$.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Reg Cæsar, @International Jew, @Spect3r, @interesting, @AndrewR

    Given that the ruling class blames all of blacks’ problems, real and imagined, on whites, it seems silly to get mad at Sowell. Clearly blacks, enabled by Democrats, can and must improve many things for themselves. It’s not a matter of “forcing them to act white,” as you claim elsewhere.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @AndrewR

    I'm not mad at Sowell, though I am disappointed in him. (He's far too intelligent and thoughtful to believe what he does.)

    I'm mad colorblind CivNats who always point to Sowell as if his existence proves that there are no genetic differences between blacks and whites or Asians for that matter.

    And, yes, we are asking blacks to act more white. What we're really saying is this, "Look blacks, we'll let you live in our society - which is dramatically better than anything you could create - but you need to not act so much like you would on your own. You need to meet us halfway. "

    Replies: @AndrewR

  103. @AndrewR
    @John Johnson

    She's really old, dude. That's gross. Bring lots of lube.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    She’s really old, dude. That’s gross. Bring lots of lube.

    I wasn’t volunteering.

    Just providing the prescription.

  104. @Wade Hampton
    @Spect3r

    The obsession with height in the NBA is borderline insane. Height means nothing when you don't do anything with it.

    Replies: @Spect3r

    Height means nothing without skill.
    IQ means nothing if isn’t used to anything proper, substantial, etc.

    • Replies: @Wade Hampton
    @Spect3r

    High IQ is necessary but not sufficient for certain jobs, just as height is a necessary but not sufficient to play in the forecourt in the NBA.

  105. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @International Jew

    I can acknowledge that NE Asians are on average smarter than Whites. Jews definitely seem to have an intellectual advantage over gentile Whites.

    There, that wasn't so hard.

    As to blacks and incentives, it's extremely condescending to keep asking them to act more White. They're not White. Let them be whom they are.

    The same is true with Whites and NE Asians. Whites just aren't grinders like Asians. It's wrong to demand that we act that way.

    Sure, with a tremendous amount of effort and cohesion, we can artificially get blacks to act more White for a time, just as I can hold a chair over my head for a time, but, ultimately, it's unnatural and temporary.

    Better to separate and let people live as they want.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Perhaps in some future, but Sowell tries to do good in these circumstances, without violence & some kind of Civil War.

    What would be use in insisting on blacks’ lower IQ stats?

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Because it's the truth.

    And because pretending otherwise places the the blame for black underperformance on white racism and thus punishes an innocent group.

  106. @Forbes
    @Citizen of a Silly Country


    I don’t give a crap ...
     
    You want Sowell to behave like a minstrel, and dance to your tune and sing your song, by professing to your authority on some pet peeve. Mighty white of you.

    Obviously, you do give a crap. Two responses littered with ad hominem. Not giving a crap would mean not wasting the time to respond regarding someone declared worthless.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

    I want Sowell to acknowledge the obvious truth of average racial genetic differences instead of peddling destructive lies about culture causing black underperformance.

    I notice that you didn’t explain why Sowell is missing this obvious truth or why you have such respect for a man who speaks often about race but who can’t or won’t accept that genetics play a major role.

  107. @John Johnson
    @Thomasina

    Under the old Fairness Doctrine, she would be forced to debate her ridiculous claims. Under the current Unfairness Doctrine, she sits there, unchallenged, spouting her message as if it’s the truth.

    That isn't how it worked. They didn't have to provide both sides to an issue. What they had to do was show that they had a diversity of viewpoints.

    Both mainstream right and left would be terrified if they had provide all points of view regarding race.

    Replies: @Thomasina

    “That isn’t how it worked. They didn’t have to provide both sides to an issue. What they had to do was show that they had a diversity of viewpoints.”

    Well, whatever. Little Miss Significance SHOULD have had somebody sitting beside her refuting her nonsense, or at least challenged a little by the interviewer. On important matters such as this, some good, strong dissenting opinions should have been offered by MSM. This was not done.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Thomasina

    Little Miss Significance SHOULD

    "Should"...

    smh

  108. @anon
    @Thomasina

    She only appears significant because she is being hailed and lauded by the elites and their mainstream lackeys.

    So?

    She has virtually no significance to the average citizen.

    Until Mr. Average Citizen is volunteered to attend mandatory "Wypipo Be Ebil and Fragile" training at his place of employment. Then DiAngelo's significance will become obvious, even if she's not there in person.

    Replies: @Thomasina

    Another poster with a “disclaimer” after their “anonymous” name.

    Not even worth replying to.

  109. @Reg Cæsar
    @Colin Wright



    ‘ “Racism Comes Out of Our Pores as White People”‘
     
    Oh well. Time to celebrate who we are, then.
     
    Yes. We have sweat glands.

    Other races are more similar to pigs. It remains within them, and they have to wallow in mud to release heat.


    https://jaguzafarm.com/support/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/wallo-1-69.jpg

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘…Other races are more similar to pigs. It remains within them, and they have to wallow in mud to release heat.’

    That’s fairly hard-core. I was thinking more in terms of a return to Jim Crow and no more ‘come one come all’ immigration.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Colin Wright


    I was thinking more in terms of a return to Jim Crow...
     
    If they're unfit for citizenship, they're unfit for residence. If I don't want him sitting at my table, why would I trust him in the kitchen? That leads to resentments, and Jesse Jackson and John Lennon.



    https://www.podiumrunner.com

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  110. @Jonathan Mason

    What exactly miasma was comprised of was not fully clear. It was usually assumed to come from rotting vegetation or dead bodies (which led to the growth in popularity of cremation in the 19th century), or perhaps from the breath of foul creatures like toads. In any case, air was held to be more dangerous at night.
     
    Not really so silly. Before the age of microbiology people looked for causes of diseases, and no, they were not caused by marsh gases, but then marshes provided breeding places for mosquitos, and no, cholera was not caused by gases around the River Thames, but by sewerage polluted river water being pumped into public water supplies, and TB was not caused by marsh gases, but it was airborne.

    And the gases and smog produced by burning coal industrially and domestically were responsible to toxic gases that caused a lot of disease, especially lung disease.

    And air IS lower in oxygen at night, which affects some people with lung diseases. And sunlight DOES kill airborne bacteria. Funguses and molds, some of which can cause disease, DO grow where it is dark and damp.

    Consider that even today the transmission of Covid-19 is not fully understood.

    So naturally people looked for fresh air. A new city was named Buenos Aires (good airs) and Florence Nightingale believed in miasma and made her hospitals clean and light and airy and hygienic. (And sunlight was somewhat effective against TB.)

    There are a lot of silly theories about racism kicking around, but maybe if more had been done at the time that slavery ended, the end result might have been different.

    The racial politics in all the countries that have a history of black slavery are not exactly the same. There are 50 US states now, but a state was never designated as a homeland for black Americans, as once suggested by Nikita Krushchev. Only Liberia.

    The United States IS a huge country with vast natural resources. Surely it can do better in providing education, health care, housing, jobs, food, and transportation for all its citizens.

    I think where the race theorists go wrong is in assuming that this is a black/white issue. Why are the whites and blacks who cannot get adequate employment, health care, and housing not joining forces for change? Why are so many Americans living in trailer parks?

    But all the same, there IS a lot of racial jealousy. For example many white Americans ARE opposed to universal affordable health care because they think it will benefit blacks more than whites, and not because they truly believe that the current system of financing health care really leads to better outcomes for more people.

    Replies: @anon, @Art Deco, @Colin Wright

    ‘…For example many white Americans ARE opposed to universal affordable health care because they think it will benefit blacks more than whites…’

    You sure about that? I’m white, and I’m American, and I’m very racist with respect to blacks, and I even have reservations concerning universal affordable health insurance — but it never occurred to me to link the benefits blacks would receive versus those whites would receive to that.

    I mean, maybe I’m just dim-witted, but speaking as an avowed racist…

    Could it be that blacks are really awful, and there really are problems with ‘universal etc.’ — but the two are unrelated? Think there might be anything to that?

    I’m racist, and I would criticize universal health care, but it’s kind of like I’m racist, and I don’t smoke. The one isn’t necessarily related to the other.

    Now, I know you want to invalidate all possible criticism of Obamacare, but…

    The objections don’t really have a whole lot to do with how one feels about Negroes.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Colin Wright

    Almost every domestic political issue in the United States is about race, whether it be healthcare, drugs, education, housing, Social Security, law enforcement, voting rights, singing the national anthem, vaccination, or immigration.

    Maybe not so much the environment.

    The fact that you admit to being racist and yet you cannot see this is hilarious.

    I am not a supporter of Obamacare. It does not provide affordable health Care. It only provides bankruptcy insurance at best.

    I was all for Trump when he said he was going to replace Obamacare with something much better, but he never got around to it.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  111. res says:
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    I don't get it. The source is an unreferenced aside on a random blog? How would he know? Where does she say it? What am I missing?

    He mentions her husband might have said it; but where? Does he know her husband?


    Also this. Note that the Internet Archive link given has disappeared. Funny how that works.
     
    I don't understand which link you are referring to, nor what you are hinting at.

    I am especially interested in understanding specifically, concretely what you are hinting at.

    Replies: @res

    Here is my second excerpt with the same formatting I used before.

    As to what she was doing in young adulthood from the mid-1970s into the 1980s, this from DiAngelo’s husband:

    For a drive from Seattle to San Francisco, I once wrote up a 4-page, single-spaced itinerary, which I photocopied several times just in case one got misplaced. Robin is the opposite – early years spent drifting around the world from kibbutz to pizza parlor to hostel to catamaran made her a bold and resourceful traveler who prefers to “figure it out when we get there” or some such long-hair nonsense. So already we have a problem.

    As the first paragraph says, the italicized portion is from her husband. The blue “this” is a hyperlink which was presumably the original source:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20200618080142/https://thefifiorganization.net/travel/thailand-2017-part-1/

    If you try to access that archive page now you get: “This URL has been excluded from the Wayback Machine.”

    This page talks about how to retroactively exclude pages from the Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine.
    https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/143529/is-it-possible-to-request-to-remove-page-snapshots-from-a-personal-social-media

    Hail’s post was less than a year ago on 8/3/20. The archive page was from a year ago today 6/18/20. Assuming Hail was telling the truth, the page included the text which I quoted in italics and was purported to be written by her husband.

    My hinting was about the tendency of inconvenient evidence to disappear (and not by accident, since a request must be made). A good reason to make personal backups of interesting pages.

    Did that cover everything?

    P.S. I was a bit terse in my excerpts, but the full link (first link in my earlier comment) expanded on things.

    • Thanks: ic1000
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @res


    My hinting was about the tendency of inconvenient evidence to disappear (and not by accident, since a request must be made). A good reason to make personal backups of interesting pages.
     
    Cæsar's Law of the Internet, ca. 1999: That which you want to keep will surely disappear, and soon. That which you want to disappear will live on forever.




    https://images.boredomfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/07/embarrassing-photos-13.jpg
    , @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    Why would her supposed trip to a Kibbutz be inconvenient? A lot of journalists boast about their time in those places. They see it as quite romantic, a sentiment which I agree with. It sounds cool.

    Replies: @res

  112. @Colin Wright
    @Reg Cæsar

    '...Other races are more similar to pigs. It remains within them, and they have to wallow in mud to release heat.'

    That's fairly hard-core. I was thinking more in terms of a return to Jim Crow and no more 'come one come all' immigration.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I was thinking more in terms of a return to Jim Crow…

    If they’re unfit for citizenship, they’re unfit for residence. If I don’t want him sitting at my table, why would I trust him in the kitchen? That leads to resentments, and Jesse Jackson and John Lennon.

    https://www.podiumrunner.com

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Reg Cæsar

    https://www.podiumrunner.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/GettyImages-187036010.jpg?width=730

  113. @Reg Cæsar
    @Colin Wright


    I was thinking more in terms of a return to Jim Crow...
     
    If they're unfit for citizenship, they're unfit for residence. If I don't want him sitting at my table, why would I trust him in the kitchen? That leads to resentments, and Jesse Jackson and John Lennon.



    https://www.podiumrunner.com

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  114. @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Here is my second excerpt with the same formatting I used before.


    As to what she was doing in young adulthood from the mid-1970s into the 1980s, this from DiAngelo’s husband:

    For a drive from Seattle to San Francisco, I once wrote up a 4-page, single-spaced itinerary, which I photocopied several times just in case one got misplaced. Robin is the opposite – early years spent drifting around the world from kibbutz to pizza parlor to hostel to catamaran made her a bold and resourceful traveler who prefers to “figure it out when we get there” or some such long-hair nonsense. So already we have a problem.
     
    As the first paragraph says, the italicized portion is from her husband. The blue "this" is a hyperlink which was presumably the original source:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20200618080142/https://thefifiorganization.net/travel/thailand-2017-part-1/

    If you try to access that archive page now you get: "This URL has been excluded from the Wayback Machine."

    This page talks about how to retroactively exclude pages from the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine.
    https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/143529/is-it-possible-to-request-to-remove-page-snapshots-from-a-personal-social-media

    Hail's post was less than a year ago on 8/3/20. The archive page was from a year ago today 6/18/20. Assuming Hail was telling the truth, the page included the text which I quoted in italics and was purported to be written by her husband.

    My hinting was about the tendency of inconvenient evidence to disappear (and not by accident, since a request must be made). A good reason to make personal backups of interesting pages.

    Did that cover everything?

    P.S. I was a bit terse in my excerpts, but the full link (first link in my earlier comment) expanded on things.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Triteleia Laxa

    My hinting was about the tendency of inconvenient evidence to disappear (and not by accident, since a request must be made). A good reason to make personal backups of interesting pages.

    Cæsar’s Law of the Internet, ca. 1999: That which you want to keep will surely disappear, and soon. That which you want to disappear will live on forever.

    [MORE]

  115. @Thomasina
    @John Johnson

    "That isn’t how it worked. They didn’t have to provide both sides to an issue. What they had to do was show that they had a diversity of viewpoints."

    Well, whatever. Little Miss Significance SHOULD have had somebody sitting beside her refuting her nonsense, or at least challenged a little by the interviewer. On important matters such as this, some good, strong dissenting opinions should have been offered by MSM. This was not done.

    Replies: @anon

    Little Miss Significance SHOULD

    “Should”…

    smh

  116. Ironically enough, in his “Notes on the State of Virginia”, Thomas Jefferson wrote that negroes exuded from their pores “a peculiar effluvium” which gave offense to white noses. During the Civil War a South Carolina newspaper commented that Yankees would soon tire of having the new black soldiers near them because of this olfactory unpleasantness.

    One of Jefferson’s political enemies observed that Long Tom must have been the opposite of affronted by this aroma when it emanated from his slave girl “sultry Sally”, another comment with modern analogues in the mixed-race couples that recently dominate television advertising.

  117. @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Here is my second excerpt with the same formatting I used before.


    As to what she was doing in young adulthood from the mid-1970s into the 1980s, this from DiAngelo’s husband:

    For a drive from Seattle to San Francisco, I once wrote up a 4-page, single-spaced itinerary, which I photocopied several times just in case one got misplaced. Robin is the opposite – early years spent drifting around the world from kibbutz to pizza parlor to hostel to catamaran made her a bold and resourceful traveler who prefers to “figure it out when we get there” or some such long-hair nonsense. So already we have a problem.
     
    As the first paragraph says, the italicized portion is from her husband. The blue "this" is a hyperlink which was presumably the original source:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20200618080142/https://thefifiorganization.net/travel/thailand-2017-part-1/

    If you try to access that archive page now you get: "This URL has been excluded from the Wayback Machine."

    This page talks about how to retroactively exclude pages from the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine.
    https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/143529/is-it-possible-to-request-to-remove-page-snapshots-from-a-personal-social-media

    Hail's post was less than a year ago on 8/3/20. The archive page was from a year ago today 6/18/20. Assuming Hail was telling the truth, the page included the text which I quoted in italics and was purported to be written by her husband.

    My hinting was about the tendency of inconvenient evidence to disappear (and not by accident, since a request must be made). A good reason to make personal backups of interesting pages.

    Did that cover everything?

    P.S. I was a bit terse in my excerpts, but the full link (first link in my earlier comment) expanded on things.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Triteleia Laxa

    Why would her supposed trip to a Kibbutz be inconvenient? A lot of journalists boast about their time in those places. They see it as quite romantic, a sentiment which I agree with. It sounds cool.

    • Replies: @res
    @Triteleia Laxa


    Why would her supposed trip to a Kibbutz be inconvenient?
     
    I don't know. Someone made the effort to remove the page from the archive. That was done after Hail's post and I think it is reasonable to assume that post was the reason (unless you know of someone else linking an archive version of that page?).

    Perhaps "evidence" is harder to justify, but I think those two points above make it clear that someone found the archive page inconvenient.

    Why do you think the page was removed from the archive? (BTW, conversations like this are much better if you make as much of an effort to answer my questions as I make to answer yours, sometimes you have to give to take)


    A lot of journalists boast about their time in those places. They see it as quite romantic, a sentiment which I agree with. It sounds cool.
     
    Right. In the same fashion some Jewish people have boasted about Jewish influence in Hollywood. Then reacted with vociferous denial when people take them at their word.

    For many people (not just Jews) incautious bragging is a significant vulnerability.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

  118. @Spect3r
    @Wade Hampton

    Height means nothing without skill.
    IQ means nothing if isn't used to anything proper, substantial, etc.

    Replies: @Wade Hampton

    High IQ is necessary but not sufficient for certain jobs, just as height is a necessary but not sufficient to play in the forecourt in the NBA.

  119. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Perhaps in some future, but Sowell tries to do good in these circumstances, without violence & some kind of Civil War.

    What would be use in insisting on blacks' lower IQ stats?

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Because it’s the truth.

    And because pretending otherwise places the the blame for black underperformance on white racism and thus punishes an innocent group.

  120. @AndrewR
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Given that the ruling class blames all of blacks' problems, real and imagined, on whites, it seems silly to get mad at Sowell. Clearly blacks, enabled by Democrats, can and must improve many things for themselves. It's not a matter of "forcing them to act white," as you claim elsewhere.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

    I’m not mad at Sowell, though I am disappointed in him. (He’s far too intelligent and thoughtful to believe what he does.)

    I’m mad colorblind CivNats who always point to Sowell as if his existence proves that there are no genetic differences between blacks and whites or Asians for that matter.

    And, yes, we are asking blacks to act more white. What we’re really saying is this, “Look blacks, we’ll let you live in our society – which is dramatically better than anything you could create – but you need to not act so much like you would on your own. You need to meet us halfway. ”

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    “Look blacks, we’ll let you live in our society – which is dramatically better than anything you could create – but you need to not act so much like you would on your own. You need to meet us halfway. ”

    This seems like a reasonable compromise. Some blacks would accept it. Many others would need repatriated.

  121. @interesting
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Damn dude. Because I think what T.S. says is the truth and logical I must be a conservative?

    I am apolitical you give me an issue and I'll give you my side. And I don't listen to Thomas Sowell because he's black I do so because he's right.

    I believe that most "differences" are cultural. If little black boys were taught the passion for learning the same way as little Asian/white boys are, they could achieve all they ever wanted. I have way to much personal experience that proves that out.

    But liberals don't want their pets thinking for themselves and "acting white" so they shower the whole group with praise and accolades for being failures which is why they elevate career criminals killed by police to hero status.

    p.s. and lets not forget other black authors with good insights.

    Shelby Steele
    Jason Riley
    Coleman Hughes
    "the sage from south central" Larry Elder
    Leo Terrell

    and then out on the fringe

    Tommy Sotomayor
    David Carroll

    Replies: @anon

    If little black boys were taught the passion for learning the same way as little Asian/white boys are, they could achieve all they ever wanted. I have way to much personal experience that proves that out.

    Please elaborate. How many black children have you raised?

  122. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1405619863687733252?s=20

    That shift isn't to the right, nor is he necessarily wrong.

    Question is if he's right enough. Letting the adversary choose the time and place of battle is never a good idea.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Buck Ransom

    Juneteenth is to the 4th of July as Kwanzaa is to Christmas.
    And you can bet that the same folks are behind both of the new creations.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Buck Ransom

    The FBI?

  123. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @AndrewR

    I'm not mad at Sowell, though I am disappointed in him. (He's far too intelligent and thoughtful to believe what he does.)

    I'm mad colorblind CivNats who always point to Sowell as if his existence proves that there are no genetic differences between blacks and whites or Asians for that matter.

    And, yes, we are asking blacks to act more white. What we're really saying is this, "Look blacks, we'll let you live in our society - which is dramatically better than anything you could create - but you need to not act so much like you would on your own. You need to meet us halfway. "

    Replies: @AndrewR

    “Look blacks, we’ll let you live in our society – which is dramatically better than anything you could create – but you need to not act so much like you would on your own. You need to meet us halfway. ”

    This seems like a reasonable compromise. Some blacks would accept it. Many others would need repatriated.

  124. res says:
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    Why would her supposed trip to a Kibbutz be inconvenient? A lot of journalists boast about their time in those places. They see it as quite romantic, a sentiment which I agree with. It sounds cool.

    Replies: @res

    Why would her supposed trip to a Kibbutz be inconvenient?

    I don’t know. Someone made the effort to remove the page from the archive. That was done after Hail’s post and I think it is reasonable to assume that post was the reason (unless you know of someone else linking an archive version of that page?).

    Perhaps “evidence” is harder to justify, but I think those two points above make it clear that someone found the archive page inconvenient.

    Why do you think the page was removed from the archive? (BTW, conversations like this are much better if you make as much of an effort to answer my questions as I make to answer yours, sometimes you have to give to take)

    A lot of journalists boast about their time in those places. They see it as quite romantic, a sentiment which I agree with. It sounds cool.

    Right. In the same fashion some Jewish people have boasted about Jewish influence in Hollywood. Then reacted with vociferous denial when people take them at their word.

    For many people (not just Jews) incautious bragging is a significant vulnerability.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @res


    Someone made the effort to remove the page from the archive
     
    I see no good reason to believe this.

    In the same fashion some Jewish people have boasted about Jewish influence in Hollywood.
     
    A woman visiting a Kibbutz is innocuous. I see no good reason to believe that she did, but picking some cherry tomatoes for a few months, who cares?

    Replies: @res

  125. @Buck Ransom
    @Desiderius

    Juneteenth is to the 4th of July as Kwanzaa is to Christmas.
    And you can bet that the same folks are behind both of the new creations.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    The FBI?

  126. @res
    @Triteleia Laxa


    Why would her supposed trip to a Kibbutz be inconvenient?
     
    I don't know. Someone made the effort to remove the page from the archive. That was done after Hail's post and I think it is reasonable to assume that post was the reason (unless you know of someone else linking an archive version of that page?).

    Perhaps "evidence" is harder to justify, but I think those two points above make it clear that someone found the archive page inconvenient.

    Why do you think the page was removed from the archive? (BTW, conversations like this are much better if you make as much of an effort to answer my questions as I make to answer yours, sometimes you have to give to take)


    A lot of journalists boast about their time in those places. They see it as quite romantic, a sentiment which I agree with. It sounds cool.
     
    Right. In the same fashion some Jewish people have boasted about Jewish influence in Hollywood. Then reacted with vociferous denial when people take them at their word.

    For many people (not just Jews) incautious bragging is a significant vulnerability.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    Someone made the effort to remove the page from the archive

    I see no good reason to believe this.

    In the same fashion some Jewish people have boasted about Jewish influence in Hollywood.

    A woman visiting a Kibbutz is innocuous. I see no good reason to believe that she did, but picking some cherry tomatoes for a few months, who cares?

    • Replies: @res
    @Triteleia Laxa


    I see no good reason to believe this.
     
    The archive page went away. The process for doing that is to submit a request. Someone appears to have done that. Submitting a request constitutes effort.

    Would that evidence stand up in court? No, of course (though it might if you could document who made the request when, I don't know if the Internet Archive keeps a log of those requests). Is it good enough evidence for me to think something is likely to be true? Yes. YMMV.

    A woman visiting a Kibbutz is innocuous.
     
    I agree. Which is what makes all of this odd. Including your initial attempt to brush it away by claiming no credible evidence.

    It feels all too much like the common pattern of.

    1. Vigorous denial.
    2. Evidence provided.
    3. Claim it does not matter anyway.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @res

  127. Everything about Robin DiAngelo, including her unimpressive IQ and her lack of money until her late middle-age, screams “gentile.”

    Working on a kibbutz in Israel used to be common among gentiles interested in seeing how collectivism might work and who were interested in farming. It was a common experience among people who were kind of interested in hippie communes, but who were skeptical about hippies, so they wanted to see agrarian socialism at its most hard-headed on a kibbutz.

    For example, I backpacked around Europe for six weeks in 1980 with a very WASPy friend from Rice U. When we finally got to Greece, I went back to the US and he went on to Israel where he worked on a kibbutz for a couple of months. He then decided he didn’t much like it and came home.

    Up through the rise of Likud over the course of the 1980s, Israel was seen in the U.S. as an interesting experiment in socialism, so it attracted visits from a lot of lefty gentiles.

  128. DiAngelo’s ex-husband remarked on her “early years spent drifting around the world from kibbutz to pizza parlor” — there we have PROOF that Robin DiAngelo is … Italian-American.

  129. anon[792] • Disclaimer says:
    @AndrewR
    @Gaspar DeLaFunk

    You might wanna smash that "Early Life" button

    Replies: @anon

    White women can be so stupid.

    You might wanna smash that “Early Life” button

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_DiAngelo#Early_life

    DiAngelo was born Robin Jeanne Taylor into a working-class family in San Jose, California, the youngest of three daughters born to Robert Z. Taylor and Maryanne Jeanne DiAngelo.[3][4] Her parents divorced when she was two and the family fell into poverty. When DiAngelo was ten years old her mother died of cancer, after which time she and her sisters went to live with their father.[5]

    She has written that her “experience of poverty would have been different had [she] not been white”, reflecting that although she feels that she faced “class oppression”, she also benefited from “racial privilege”.[6]

    ?

  130. @Desiderius
    @black sea

    This is why organic life (characterized by reproduction) beats the alternatives.

    Hope springs eternal in the human breast and beauty in the loins.

    Replies: @Dissident

    black sea:

    It reminds you that all beauty is fleeting, the aging process is remorseless and devastating, and neither you nor she will ever be young again.

    Beauty of character is not fleeting.

    Harry Baldwin:

    And that, along with the disappointments and disillusion life hands us along the way, helps reconcile us to our mortality.

    How many ever do reconcile themselves with their own mortality?

    Desiderius:

    This is why organic life (characterized by reproduction) beats the alternatives.

    Without reproduction…there is no life.

    Hope springs eternal in the human breast and beauty in the loins.

    So here’s to the girls on the go-
    Everybody tries.
    Look into their eyes and you’ll see what they know.
    Everybody dies.

    Every young man thinks he is immortal; invincible.
    small boy big trees

  131. res says:
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @res


    Someone made the effort to remove the page from the archive
     
    I see no good reason to believe this.

    In the same fashion some Jewish people have boasted about Jewish influence in Hollywood.
     
    A woman visiting a Kibbutz is innocuous. I see no good reason to believe that she did, but picking some cherry tomatoes for a few months, who cares?

    Replies: @res

    I see no good reason to believe this.

    The archive page went away. The process for doing that is to submit a request. Someone appears to have done that. Submitting a request constitutes effort.

    Would that evidence stand up in court? No, of course (though it might if you could document who made the request when, I don’t know if the Internet Archive keeps a log of those requests). Is it good enough evidence for me to think something is likely to be true? Yes. YMMV.

    A woman visiting a Kibbutz is innocuous.

    I agree. Which is what makes all of this odd. Including your initial attempt to brush it away by claiming no credible evidence.

    It feels all too much like the common pattern of.

    1. Vigorous denial.
    2. Evidence provided.
    3. Claim it does not matter anyway.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    "Evidence provided" has to be evidence I can see. I can see nothing credible.

    A blog post making a biographical claim, with no source available, is not enough for me. I have no idea how it would be enough for anybody.

    I also don't see any reason to care if she went to a Kibbutz.

    You may believe whatever you want, but please stop maligning me for not prioritising some blogger over my own eyes and your prejudices about Kibbutzes over my lifetime perception.

    I need reasons that makes sense to me or evidence I can view. There is none here. I'm not going to lie to flatter your ego.

    Replies: @res

    , @res
    @res

    Well that was strange. I had added more to that comment in the text box but somehow an earlier version was submitted with no edit window available. Here is the rest.

    What I am most interested in here is:

    1. Did the kibbutz visit really occur? I am a fan of working from objective reality. (one of the reasons I hate the Current Year and its fad for pretending objective reality does not exist)
    2. How everyone is reacting. From the "she must be Jewish" reaction to the "nothing to see here and you must be a Nazi for talking about it" reaction.

    Lots of clues to be found in how people react to things. And understanding the underlying reality can help interpretation.

  132. @res
    @Triteleia Laxa


    I see no good reason to believe this.
     
    The archive page went away. The process for doing that is to submit a request. Someone appears to have done that. Submitting a request constitutes effort.

    Would that evidence stand up in court? No, of course (though it might if you could document who made the request when, I don't know if the Internet Archive keeps a log of those requests). Is it good enough evidence for me to think something is likely to be true? Yes. YMMV.

    A woman visiting a Kibbutz is innocuous.
     
    I agree. Which is what makes all of this odd. Including your initial attempt to brush it away by claiming no credible evidence.

    It feels all too much like the common pattern of.

    1. Vigorous denial.
    2. Evidence provided.
    3. Claim it does not matter anyway.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @res

    “Evidence provided” has to be evidence I can see. I can see nothing credible.

    A blog post making a biographical claim, with no source available, is not enough for me. I have no idea how it would be enough for anybody.

    I also don’t see any reason to care if she went to a Kibbutz.

    You may believe whatever you want, but please stop maligning me for not prioritising some blogger over my own eyes and your prejudices about Kibbutzes over my lifetime perception.

    I need reasons that makes sense to me or evidence I can view. There is none here. I’m not going to lie to flatter your ego.

    • Replies: @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    That was a very personal response. Interesting. Why do you care so much about this?

    Disagreeing is not the same as maligning. Where do you see me maligning you in this exchange?

    This exchange might have gone better if my full comment (see addendum) had been posted. Because it expands on how I see this and I think makes clear how you are misreading and misrepresenting my position.

    P.S. Juxtaposing my prejudices with your lifetime perception is an interesting phrasing. Hopefully everyone sees the double standard implicit in that. Bonus question: how are prejudices different from lifetime perceptions?

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

  133. res says:
    @res
    @Triteleia Laxa


    I see no good reason to believe this.
     
    The archive page went away. The process for doing that is to submit a request. Someone appears to have done that. Submitting a request constitutes effort.

    Would that evidence stand up in court? No, of course (though it might if you could document who made the request when, I don't know if the Internet Archive keeps a log of those requests). Is it good enough evidence for me to think something is likely to be true? Yes. YMMV.

    A woman visiting a Kibbutz is innocuous.
     
    I agree. Which is what makes all of this odd. Including your initial attempt to brush it away by claiming no credible evidence.

    It feels all too much like the common pattern of.

    1. Vigorous denial.
    2. Evidence provided.
    3. Claim it does not matter anyway.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @res

    Well that was strange. I had added more to that comment in the text box but somehow an earlier version was submitted with no edit window available. Here is the rest.

    What I am most interested in here is:

    1. Did the kibbutz visit really occur? I am a fan of working from objective reality. (one of the reasons I hate the Current Year and its fad for pretending objective reality does not exist)
    2. How everyone is reacting. From the “she must be Jewish” reaction to the “nothing to see here and you must be a Nazi for talking about it” reaction.

    Lots of clues to be found in how people react to things. And understanding the underlying reality can help interpretation.

  134. @Colin Wright
    @Jonathan Mason

    '...For example many white Americans ARE opposed to universal affordable health care because they think it will benefit blacks more than whites...'

    You sure about that? I'm white, and I'm American, and I'm very racist with respect to blacks, and I even have reservations concerning universal affordable health insurance -- but it never occurred to me to link the benefits blacks would receive versus those whites would receive to that.

    I mean, maybe I'm just dim-witted, but speaking as an avowed racist...

    Could it be that blacks are really awful, and there really are problems with 'universal etc.' -- but the two are unrelated? Think there might be anything to that?

    I'm racist, and I would criticize universal health care, but it's kind of like I'm racist, and I don't smoke. The one isn't necessarily related to the other.

    Now, I know you want to invalidate all possible criticism of Obamacare, but...

    The objections don't really have a whole lot to do with how one feels about Negroes.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Almost every domestic political issue in the United States is about race, whether it be healthcare, drugs, education, housing, Social Security, law enforcement, voting rights, singing the national anthem, vaccination, or immigration.

    Maybe not so much the environment.

    The fact that you admit to being racist and yet you cannot see this is hilarious.

    I am not a supporter of Obamacare. It does not provide affordable health Care. It only provides bankruptcy insurance at best.

    I was all for Trump when he said he was going to replace Obamacare with something much better, but he never got around to it.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Jonathan Mason

    'Almost every domestic political issue in the United States is about race, whether it be healthcare, drugs, education, housing, Social Security, law enforcement, voting rights, singing the national anthem, vaccination, or immigration...'

    That's nonsense. Here, locally, our population is only 0.3% black locally -- and yet healthcare, drugs, vagrancy, housing, immigration, and vaccination are all issues of specifically local concern. We care about them in their local aspect -- even absent any race to speak of other than white people.

    If these issues were 'about race' that would be logically impossible.

  135. res says:
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    "Evidence provided" has to be evidence I can see. I can see nothing credible.

    A blog post making a biographical claim, with no source available, is not enough for me. I have no idea how it would be enough for anybody.

    I also don't see any reason to care if she went to a Kibbutz.

    You may believe whatever you want, but please stop maligning me for not prioritising some blogger over my own eyes and your prejudices about Kibbutzes over my lifetime perception.

    I need reasons that makes sense to me or evidence I can view. There is none here. I'm not going to lie to flatter your ego.

    Replies: @res

    That was a very personal response. Interesting. Why do you care so much about this?

    Disagreeing is not the same as maligning. Where do you see me maligning you in this exchange?

    This exchange might have gone better if my full comment (see addendum) had been posted. Because it expands on how I see this and I think makes clear how you are misreading and misrepresenting my position.

    P.S. Juxtaposing my prejudices with your lifetime perception is an interesting phrasing. Hopefully everyone sees the double standard implicit in that. Bonus question: how are prejudices different from lifetime perceptions?

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    I imagine you get into this type of situation a lot. You think you're being pleasant and objective, but the other person perceives you as highly aggressive, boorish and doesn't want to speak with you.

    My last response was to try to remind you that you are speaking with a real person, but it seems that you didn't like being reminded of that.

    I don't know what addendum you're referring to. I just am telling you that no amount of boorish behaviour or insistence that I take your perception over mine, is going to make me change my mind. It will just make me politely avoid you.

    I would bet, at ludicrous odds, you're getting a sense of deja vu - and, if it happens a lot, it is you, not them.

    Replies: @res

  136. @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    That was a very personal response. Interesting. Why do you care so much about this?

    Disagreeing is not the same as maligning. Where do you see me maligning you in this exchange?

    This exchange might have gone better if my full comment (see addendum) had been posted. Because it expands on how I see this and I think makes clear how you are misreading and misrepresenting my position.

    P.S. Juxtaposing my prejudices with your lifetime perception is an interesting phrasing. Hopefully everyone sees the double standard implicit in that. Bonus question: how are prejudices different from lifetime perceptions?

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    I imagine you get into this type of situation a lot. You think you’re being pleasant and objective, but the other person perceives you as highly aggressive, boorish and doesn’t want to speak with you.

    My last response was to try to remind you that you are speaking with a real person, but it seems that you didn’t like being reminded of that.

    I don’t know what addendum you’re referring to. I just am telling you that no amount of boorish behaviour or insistence that I take your perception over mine, is going to make me change my mind. It will just make me politely avoid you.

    I would bet, at ludicrous odds, you’re getting a sense of deja vu – and, if it happens a lot, it is you, not them.

    • Replies: @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    I realize I am being aggressive. But I think I am being more careful about actually maligning (or falsely accusing other people of doing so) than you are. BTW, are you claiming you are not being aggressive (and boorish for that matter) here?

    If you want to remind me that I am speaking with a real person, try treating me like one yourself. Reread that comment of yours (e.g. flatter your ego) and look how personal you made it.

    The addendum (i.e. my reply to myself to add something) was my comment 133 which should have been part of comment 132 which you replied to.

    Let's make this simple. You accused me of maligning you. Please quote where I did that. Or retract that statement. I realize holding people to their word makes them uncomfortable. Seems fair to me though.


    I would bet, at ludicrous odds, you’re getting a sense of deja vu – and, if it happens a lot, it is you, not them.
     
    I would bet, at even more ludicrous odds, that there is more than a little projection in your statement.

    P.S. In case it is not obvious, at this point I am not trying to change your mind. I am just trying to point out how inconsistent and hypocritical (e.g. my prejudices vs. your lifetime perception) your comments are.

    P.P.S. And if you think I am going to take your advice on how to interact with others after seeing how you do so (both here and in other threads). Well, LOL!!!!

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

  137. @Bardon Kaldian
    @International Jew

    Poor soul, the centre of my sinful earth,
    Thrall to these rebel powers that thee array,
    Why dost thou pine within and suffer dearth,
    Painting thy outward walls so costly gay?

    Why so large cost, having so short a lease,
    Dost thou upon thy fading mansion spend?
    Shall worms, inheritors of this excess,
    Eat up thy charge? Is this thy body’s end?

    Then soul, live thou upon thy servant’s loss,
    And let that pine to aggravate thy store;
    Buy terms divine in selling hours of dross;
    Within be fed, without be rich no more:

    So shall thou feed on Death, that feeds on men,
    And Death once dead, there’s no more dying then.

    Sonnet 146

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe

    That poet(whoever he really was) knew how to write.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Paul Jolliffe

    Shake

    And he really was Shake, according to stylometric analysis.

  138. res says:
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    I imagine you get into this type of situation a lot. You think you're being pleasant and objective, but the other person perceives you as highly aggressive, boorish and doesn't want to speak with you.

    My last response was to try to remind you that you are speaking with a real person, but it seems that you didn't like being reminded of that.

    I don't know what addendum you're referring to. I just am telling you that no amount of boorish behaviour or insistence that I take your perception over mine, is going to make me change my mind. It will just make me politely avoid you.

    I would bet, at ludicrous odds, you're getting a sense of deja vu - and, if it happens a lot, it is you, not them.

    Replies: @res

    I realize I am being aggressive. But I think I am being more careful about actually maligning (or falsely accusing other people of doing so) than you are. BTW, are you claiming you are not being aggressive (and boorish for that matter) here?

    If you want to remind me that I am speaking with a real person, try treating me like one yourself. Reread that comment of yours (e.g. flatter your ego) and look how personal you made it.

    The addendum (i.e. my reply to myself to add something) was my comment 133 which should have been part of comment 132 which you replied to.

    Let’s make this simple. You accused me of maligning you. Please quote where I did that. Or retract that statement. I realize holding people to their word makes them uncomfortable. Seems fair to me though.

    I would bet, at ludicrous odds, you’re getting a sense of deja vu – and, if it happens a lot, it is you, not them.

    I would bet, at even more ludicrous odds, that there is more than a little projection in your statement.

    P.S. In case it is not obvious, at this point I am not trying to change your mind. I am just trying to point out how inconsistent and hypocritical (e.g. my prejudices vs. your lifetime perception) your comments are.

    P.P.S. And if you think I am going to take your advice on how to interact with others after seeing how you do so (both here and in other threads). Well, LOL!!!!

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    You are alleging that I am part of some conspiracy against you; presumably you consider such conspiracy "malign?"

    In your comments below, I find it most remarkable that you refer to "credible evidence", even though you have still not yet given any.

    Your accusatory implication is also one that you have made in a number of other threads. This makes it part of a pattern of your actual behaviour; whereas your fitting me into a pattern, is not one which is actually of my own. Everyone experiences this as rude.

    Which is what makes all of this odd. Including your initial attempt to brush it away by claiming no credible evidence.

    It feels all too much like the common pattern of.

    1. Vigorous denial.
    2. Evidence provided.
    3. Claim it does not matter anyway.


    BTW, are you claiming you are not being aggressive (and boorish for that matter) here?
     
    Since you have been consistently aggressive with me, even after I made a personal plea for you to stop, I decided that you needed to be accurately surmised in a more honest version of your own tone.

    I would bet, at even more ludicrous odds, that there is more than a little projection in your statement.
     
    In what way is my statement taking an aspect of myself, which I do not allow to surface, and putting it onto you?

    Can we have a source for your claim? I tried looking it up and got nothing credible.
     
    This is the question, which I put to another, which started this thread. There is still no credible source for that claim, many pointless words later, even though you keep referring to it.

    You allege that it has been deleted as part of some generalised conspiracy, of which you also imply that I am a part.

    This means that your position is either that I agree with you, based on evidence that I can't see, or I am malign; which is exactly how Kendi and Critical Race Theory practitioners work.

    They demand that people accept minorities' "lived experience" over their own, even without evidence being given. If someone has the presumption to disagree or state that they will keep to their own "lived experience" then Kendi, and others, attack them for small inconsistencies in their language and for being part of some malign conspiracy against them.

    Very, very interesting.

    Replies: @res

  139. @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    I realize I am being aggressive. But I think I am being more careful about actually maligning (or falsely accusing other people of doing so) than you are. BTW, are you claiming you are not being aggressive (and boorish for that matter) here?

    If you want to remind me that I am speaking with a real person, try treating me like one yourself. Reread that comment of yours (e.g. flatter your ego) and look how personal you made it.

    The addendum (i.e. my reply to myself to add something) was my comment 133 which should have been part of comment 132 which you replied to.

    Let's make this simple. You accused me of maligning you. Please quote where I did that. Or retract that statement. I realize holding people to their word makes them uncomfortable. Seems fair to me though.


    I would bet, at ludicrous odds, you’re getting a sense of deja vu – and, if it happens a lot, it is you, not them.
     
    I would bet, at even more ludicrous odds, that there is more than a little projection in your statement.

    P.S. In case it is not obvious, at this point I am not trying to change your mind. I am just trying to point out how inconsistent and hypocritical (e.g. my prejudices vs. your lifetime perception) your comments are.

    P.P.S. And if you think I am going to take your advice on how to interact with others after seeing how you do so (both here and in other threads). Well, LOL!!!!

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    You are alleging that I am part of some conspiracy against you; presumably you consider such conspiracy “malign?”

    In your comments below, I find it most remarkable that you refer to “credible evidence”, even though you have still not yet given any.

    Your accusatory implication is also one that you have made in a number of other threads. This makes it part of a pattern of your actual behaviour; whereas your fitting me into a pattern, is not one which is actually of my own. Everyone experiences this as rude.

    Which is what makes all of this odd. Including your initial attempt to brush it away by claiming no credible evidence.

    It feels all too much like the common pattern of.

    1. Vigorous denial.
    2. Evidence provided.
    3. Claim it does not matter anyway.

    BTW, are you claiming you are not being aggressive (and boorish for that matter) here?

    Since you have been consistently aggressive with me, even after I made a personal plea for you to stop, I decided that you needed to be accurately surmised in a more honest version of your own tone.

    I would bet, at even more ludicrous odds, that there is more than a little projection in your statement.

    In what way is my statement taking an aspect of myself, which I do not allow to surface, and putting it onto you?

    Can we have a source for your claim? I tried looking it up and got nothing credible.

    This is the question, which I put to another, which started this thread. There is still no credible source for that claim, many pointless words later, even though you keep referring to it.

    You allege that it has been deleted as part of some generalised conspiracy, of which you also imply that I am a part.

    This means that your position is either that I agree with you, based on evidence that I can’t see, or I am malign; which is exactly how Kendi and Critical Race Theory practitioners work.

    They demand that people accept minorities’ “lived experience” over their own, even without evidence being given. If someone has the presumption to disagree or state that they will keep to their own “lived experience” then Kendi, and others, attack them for small inconsistencies in their language and for being part of some malign conspiracy against them.

    Very, very interesting.

    • Replies: @res
    @Triteleia Laxa


    You are alleging that I am part of some conspiracy against you; presumably you consider such conspiracy “malign?”
     
    Where? You have to do a massive amount of unjustified inferring to get to there. The quote you gave (the 123 pattern) is quite descriptive of your behavior in this thread. It is you who thinks it is indicative of a conspiracy. Which says something to me. I call that pattern fairly typical of human nature. Though some people do it more than others. And it does seem to be especially popular in the Current Year. I tend to use it as a marker of people who are just throwing denials at the wall and seeing what sticks. That is disingenuous IMHO, but it does not require a conspiracy.


    Since you have been consistently aggressive with me, even after I made a personal plea for you to stop, I decided that you needed to be accurately surmised in a more honest version of your own tone.
     
    You know, it might be constructive not to embody the crying out as he strikes you stereotype quite so well. You tone policing others is quite funny. Shall we return to Twinkie's compendium of quotes from you in the other thread?
    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/jewishness-will-become-problematic/#comment-4721285

    This means that your position is either that I agree with you, based on evidence that I can’t see, or I am malign; which is exactly how Kendi and Critical Race Theory practitioners work.
     
    It must be nice to be omniscient and know what everyone else is thinking. Though it would be better if you were actually correct. What I am asking for you to acknowledge is the following.

    1. The Hail post (which came up near the top of my search, as I assume it did for yours) was worth discussing as evidence. Not even acknowledging that elephant in the room (it seems pretty likely that is the original source for JW123's comment) strikes me as disingenuous. Especially given your use of "not credible" to avoid even engaging with it. Many (most?) would say the Unz Review is not credible and dismiss well documented evidence without engaging with it just because it came from here. I would think people who comment here are better than that and would be willing to discuss arguments and evidence on their merits (or lack thereof).

    2. The ARCHIVE link going away is odd and interesting. It's not like someone's blog just disappeared. A specific request has to be made to make that happen.

    If the archive link was present and was both as Hail said and could be verified as being from her husband would you consider that evidence credible? And again, if the kibbutz visit idea is truly innocuous why did you care enough to dispute it?

    They demand that people accept minorities’ “lived experience” over their own
     
    Do you really not understand that you did EXACTLY that with your my prejudices vs. your lifetime perception statement?! That is why I keep harping on it. Your attempt to map my behavior to that is much weaker. Yet more hypocrisy and projection.

    P.S. Your comments are an interesting exercise in rhetoric. Hopefully others can see how little substance and how much hypocrisy underlies that rhetoric though.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

  140. @Jonathan Mason
    @Colin Wright

    Almost every domestic political issue in the United States is about race, whether it be healthcare, drugs, education, housing, Social Security, law enforcement, voting rights, singing the national anthem, vaccination, or immigration.

    Maybe not so much the environment.

    The fact that you admit to being racist and yet you cannot see this is hilarious.

    I am not a supporter of Obamacare. It does not provide affordable health Care. It only provides bankruptcy insurance at best.

    I was all for Trump when he said he was going to replace Obamacare with something much better, but he never got around to it.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘Almost every domestic political issue in the United States is about race, whether it be healthcare, drugs, education, housing, Social Security, law enforcement, voting rights, singing the national anthem, vaccination, or immigration…’

    That’s nonsense. Here, locally, our population is only 0.3% black locally — and yet healthcare, drugs, vagrancy, housing, immigration, and vaccination are all issues of specifically local concern. We care about them in their local aspect — even absent any race to speak of other than white people.

    If these issues were ‘about race’ that would be logically impossible.

  141. @res
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    I am curious about her staying at a kibbutz as a matter of fact (especially since TL leaped on the statement). Not sure it is terribly relevant.


    Jews somehow are deleting files so nobody finds out that she stayed a kibbutz.
     
    Never said that. I just found it curious the page had been removed from the archive. Especially since Hail's piece was from less than a year ago. What would be your explanation?

    I'm not sure your "a good offense is the best defense" approach serves you well here. When I make vague statements indicating curiosity and then you turn them into something very different I start to wonder...

    Why are you and TL so sensitive about Robin DiAngelo maybe having visited a kibbutz in her youth?

    Replies: @Dissident

    Why are you and TL so sensitive about Robin DiAngelo maybe having visited a kibbutz in her youth?

    Doesn’t that question, along with the rest of your comments in this thread on the matter, ignore– persistently and rather conspicuously–
    some rather salient and germane context?

    Let us review for a moment, shall we? How did the whole DiAngelo kibbutz visit question get introduced into this thread in the first place? It was via a comment posted by JohnnyWalker123, which he began by making the assertion that Robin DiAngeleo had “lived on a Jewish Kibbutz when she was younger.” Mr. Walker offered no evidence or citation in support of this claim. He linked to two comments from an August 2020 iSteve thread on Ms. DiAngelo, neither of which appear to contain any mention of the kibbutz claim.

    Mr. Walker then concluded his comment with the following statements.

    If you’re a White Gentile who wants to be a part of the intelligentsia in today’s America, you basically have to convert to Judaism. You may not become Jewish by blood, but you can be an honorary Jew.

    Let’s retire the phrases “self-hating White” and “guilt-ridden White.”

    Let’s start using the phrase “Jewish convert.”

    [MORE]

    Wouldn’t the above statements alone be more than sufficient to disabuse anyone of any benefit of the doubt he may have otherwise been inclined to afford Mr. Walker concerning his intentions and motivations in making the initial assertion that he did (even if it had been substantiated)?

    It so happens, however, that said statements are not alone. Nor are they an anomaly. Far from it, for Mr. Walker has an extensive history of making embarrassingly simplistic, over-the-top, low-rent blame the Jews comments, and regurgitating wild, unsubstantiated claims of vast, labyrinthine, implausible conspiracies, nearly all of which have The Jews as some monolithic, stealth diabolical force behind everything.

    If, in any of your comments in this thread you at any point acknowledged any of the factors I have enumerated and indicated above, or indicated that you took them into account, I missed it. What I most certainly did not miss, however, were your repeated, cavalier, references to the DiAngelo kibbutz matter as if it were merely some trivial, utterly innocuous matter devoid of the contextual, decidedly malicious implications that I enumerated above.

    Thus, I am left with no choice but to conclude either disingenuousness , or, if sincere, obtuseness/ lack of insight on your part.

    As if all that I have enumerated above were not enough, there is also an additional factor here that cannot be overlooked. This is, to be quite frank, the matter of your own reputation/persona as a commenter here. Now, to be clear, I would certainly not place you in the same category, neither as the aforementioned Mr. Walker nor of any number other individuals here who are, to varying degrees, excessively Jew-hostile and/or Jew-obsessed. Perhaps nowhere near the same category as any of the aforementioned. Nonetheless, the objective fact remains, if nothing else, the following. Out of what are thousands (?) of regular commenters to this site, you are one of a select few whom Mr. Ron Unz himself has singled-out for “elevation” as “excellent”.

    Just how is that relevant here, you ask? Well, considering (A) that Mr. Unz’s publicly stated rabidly anti-Judaic and anti-Jewish views include explicit endorsements of both the classic blood libel that Jews ritually murdered Christian children, as well as outright Holocaust denial; and (B) that at least two of the other individuals with whom you share the gold-star “elevated excellent commenter” distinction are, if anything, even more rabidly anti-Judaic and anti-Jewish in their expressed views than is Mr. Unz…

    Well, how surprising or even less-than-reasonable would it be for anyone who finds such views repellent to, based upon what I enumerated above, be even more wary, defensive or uncomfortable in relation to the comments of yours in question than said comments would already warrant? Yet another example, it would seem, that Jews aren’t the only ones for whom self-awareness can be in short supply…

    • Thanks: Triteleia Laxa
    • Replies: @res
    @Dissident

    That is a thoughtful and fair criticism. Thank you for taking the time to expound on it so calmly and thoroughly. Let me cover some select points and see if that is enough of an answer. If you feel I have missed something important please point it out and ask me to respond to it specifically.


    Thus, I am left with no choice but to conclude either disingenuousness , or, if sincere, obtuseness/ lack of insight on your part.
     
    I can certainly understand why you (and presumably TL as well) would conclude that. I ask you to consider a third possibility (which I believe to be reality).

    At this point in life I consider myself skeptical of Jewish power, nepotistic tendencies, and certain "typical" styles of argument. I tend to get along quite well with Jews in real life (we share many values, not least the value of learning).

    That said I am vastly disturbed by some aspects of Jewish influence in this country. Not least the overrepresentation while being at the vanguard of the disparate impact idea (which is stunningly hypocritical IMHO).

    One role I take here is trying to advocate a middle position on "the Jewish question" in the US. To that end I tend to try to engage in thoughtful argument with "Jewish advocates" who I think take things too far.

    I would argue more with overt anti-Semites (the real definition I see as blame all Jews for everything, not the all too common definition of people who say things some Jew does not like), but I figure the Jewish advocates have that well covered, and frankly I have a bit of sympathy given how they do cover it.

    But I try to fill what I see as a shortage of reasoned criticism of some aspects of Jewish behavior and role in our society. Though I tend to become a bit immoderate when I feel the stereotypes start coming to life. And I do believe in fighting fire with fire.

    (ran out of time filling in this part will expand later if you want)

    So not lack of self awareness (I think) and not disingenuousness (else why would I be writing this?). Rather a considered position with my primary objections being lying, personal attacks, and contentless rhetoric.

    Out of what are thousands (?) of regular commenters to this site, you are one of a select few whom Mr. Ron Unz himself has singled-out for “elevation” as “excellent”. (res: rest relevant but omitted for length)
     
    Yes. That is a noticeable quality of the gold stars (and was commented on at the time). I was somewhat surprised and disappointed that commenter Jack D did not get one. Though he and I argue sometimes (not coincidentally usually about perceptions of Jews) I consider him one of the best commenters on the Unz Review.

    It is also worth noting that the relevant comparison is more to what I would estimate as low hundreds or high tens of frequent commenters.

    I don't pretend to know why Ron does what he does, but my assumption was always that I received my gold star in response to detailed and well researched comments on various topics. In particular in James Thompson's blog (not sure if you read that).

    Back to this thread. I do admit to baiting TL in this thread. In previous discussions others have implied she (?) is Hasbara. I don't know about that, but the rhetorical techniques I have repeatedly called out in this thread strike me as Hasbara-like (whether amateur or professional). There is nothing wrong with advocating for your people, but I have a problem when I feel it crosses over into denial of and/or refusing to engage with reality. And I placed TL's dismissal of Hail's post as evidence into that category.

    Baiting someone is a good way to get them to expose themselves. It is definitely not nice, but TL has hardly been nice to me (or others in earlier conversations, note my link to Twinkie's compendium above).

    I have been a high volume commenter on the Unz Review for a long time. During that period I have engaged in numerous interactions with trolls of various sorts who usually have some sort of agenda. I have determined that the best way to deal with that is to present my evidence and arguments as best I can while at the same time fighting fire with fire.

    Sometimes I make a mistake and engage in aggressive fashion with someone I misunderstood who did not deserve it. That is regrettable, but I consider it a cost of doing business. And I try to make it right once I realize I have erred. I refuse to let people run me over with false accusations, rhetoric, and ad hominems.

    One the other hand, I will take a lot from people whom I think are bringing useful perspectives, evidence, or arguments to a conversation. As I have said before, I am all about Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR). I like to think mine is quite good despite some of my less admirable comments.

    Do you have any dispute with my characterization of TL's rhetoric and hypocritical tone policing in this thread? Because that is what I consider to be at issue in this conversation at this point. Do you honestly consider TL's behavior in this thread any better than mine? Don't excuse bad behavior from people who happen to be on your "side" while criticizing mine.

    P.S. This comment is not as well written as I would like (and probably a bit more immoderate, sorry about that). I have to be somewhere else soon and thought timeliness more important than polish. If you like I will continue this conversation later.

    Replies: @res

  142. res says:
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    You are alleging that I am part of some conspiracy against you; presumably you consider such conspiracy "malign?"

    In your comments below, I find it most remarkable that you refer to "credible evidence", even though you have still not yet given any.

    Your accusatory implication is also one that you have made in a number of other threads. This makes it part of a pattern of your actual behaviour; whereas your fitting me into a pattern, is not one which is actually of my own. Everyone experiences this as rude.

    Which is what makes all of this odd. Including your initial attempt to brush it away by claiming no credible evidence.

    It feels all too much like the common pattern of.

    1. Vigorous denial.
    2. Evidence provided.
    3. Claim it does not matter anyway.


    BTW, are you claiming you are not being aggressive (and boorish for that matter) here?
     
    Since you have been consistently aggressive with me, even after I made a personal plea for you to stop, I decided that you needed to be accurately surmised in a more honest version of your own tone.

    I would bet, at even more ludicrous odds, that there is more than a little projection in your statement.
     
    In what way is my statement taking an aspect of myself, which I do not allow to surface, and putting it onto you?

    Can we have a source for your claim? I tried looking it up and got nothing credible.
     
    This is the question, which I put to another, which started this thread. There is still no credible source for that claim, many pointless words later, even though you keep referring to it.

    You allege that it has been deleted as part of some generalised conspiracy, of which you also imply that I am a part.

    This means that your position is either that I agree with you, based on evidence that I can't see, or I am malign; which is exactly how Kendi and Critical Race Theory practitioners work.

    They demand that people accept minorities' "lived experience" over their own, even without evidence being given. If someone has the presumption to disagree or state that they will keep to their own "lived experience" then Kendi, and others, attack them for small inconsistencies in their language and for being part of some malign conspiracy against them.

    Very, very interesting.

    Replies: @res

    You are alleging that I am part of some conspiracy against you; presumably you consider such conspiracy “malign?”

    Where? You have to do a massive amount of unjustified inferring to get to there. The quote you gave (the 123 pattern) is quite descriptive of your behavior in this thread. It is you who thinks it is indicative of a conspiracy. Which says something to me. I call that pattern fairly typical of human nature. Though some people do it more than others. And it does seem to be especially popular in the Current Year. I tend to use it as a marker of people who are just throwing denials at the wall and seeing what sticks. That is disingenuous IMHO, but it does not require a conspiracy.

    Since you have been consistently aggressive with me, even after I made a personal plea for you to stop, I decided that you needed to be accurately surmised in a more honest version of your own tone.

    You know, it might be constructive not to embody the crying out as he strikes you stereotype quite so well. You tone policing others is quite funny. Shall we return to Twinkie’s compendium of quotes from you in the other thread?
    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/jewishness-will-become-problematic/#comment-4721285

    This means that your position is either that I agree with you, based on evidence that I can’t see, or I am malign; which is exactly how Kendi and Critical Race Theory practitioners work.

    It must be nice to be omniscient and know what everyone else is thinking. Though it would be better if you were actually correct. What I am asking for you to acknowledge is the following.

    1. The Hail post (which came up near the top of my search, as I assume it did for yours) was worth discussing as evidence. Not even acknowledging that elephant in the room (it seems pretty likely that is the original source for JW123’s comment) strikes me as disingenuous. Especially given your use of “not credible” to avoid even engaging with it. Many (most?) would say the Unz Review is not credible and dismiss well documented evidence without engaging with it just because it came from here. I would think people who comment here are better than that and would be willing to discuss arguments and evidence on their merits (or lack thereof).

    2. The ARCHIVE link going away is odd and interesting. It’s not like someone’s blog just disappeared. A specific request has to be made to make that happen.

    If the archive link was present and was both as Hail said and could be verified as being from her husband would you consider that evidence credible? And again, if the kibbutz visit idea is truly innocuous why did you care enough to dispute it?

    They demand that people accept minorities’ “lived experience” over their own

    Do you really not understand that you did EXACTLY that with your my prejudices vs. your lifetime perception statement?! That is why I keep harping on it. Your attempt to map my behavior to that is much weaker. Yet more hypocrisy and projection.

    P.S. Your comments are an interesting exercise in rhetoric. Hopefully others can see how little substance and how much hypocrisy underlies that rhetoric though.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @res


    Do you really not understand that you did EXACTLY that with your my prejudices vs. your lifetime perception statement
     
    No, I did not. I said that I couldn't be expected to change my mind based on your prejudices. I did not say you could be expected to change yours based on mine; even if I used a more positive word to describe my own - sue me.

    You seem to have great difficulty in understanding the difference.

    Like Kendi, etc, I believe you are sincere, but you aggressively telling me that an anonymous blogger, with no source, constitutes evidence that I should take seriously, is farcical.

    You are also trying to have it both ways, by claiming to not insinuate bad faith conspiracy in my presence and yet also denying you insinuate it, in order to allege my calling out your insinuation is evidence for your insinuation, is Kafkaesque hilarious.

    You selectively quoting Twinkie who attacked me in exactly the same late middle age, utterly stuck, man way, without including the context, is revealing. There are no prizes here, except how you honour yourself and what you learn.

    You don't have to admit it, but if you go back and read my posts and my summary of your behaviour, you will learn a lot that will help you in your day to day life. This will be your pattern.

    Your choice. I get you. I hope you one day get yourself.

    There's no more for me in conversation with you, but I sincerely wish you the best.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

  143. res says:
    @Dissident
    @res


    Why are you and TL so sensitive about Robin DiAngelo maybe having visited a kibbutz in her youth?
     
    Doesn't that question, along with the rest of your comments in this thread on the matter, ignore-- persistently and rather conspicuously--
    some rather salient and germane context?

    Let us review for a moment, shall we? How did the whole DiAngelo kibbutz visit question get introduced into this thread in the first place? It was via a comment posted by JohnnyWalker123, which he began by making the assertion that Robin DiAngeleo had "lived on a Jewish Kibbutz when she was younger." Mr. Walker offered no evidence or citation in support of this claim. He linked to two comments from an August 2020 iSteve thread on Ms. DiAngelo, neither of which appear to contain any mention of the kibbutz claim.

    Mr. Walker then concluded his comment with the following statements.

    If you’re a White Gentile who wants to be a part of the intelligentsia in today’s America, you basically have to convert to Judaism. You may not become Jewish by blood, but you can be an honorary Jew.

    Let’s retire the phrases “self-hating White” and “guilt-ridden White.”

    Let’s start using the phrase “Jewish convert.”
     


    Wouldn't the above statements alone be more than sufficient to disabuse anyone of any benefit of the doubt he may have otherwise been inclined to afford Mr. Walker concerning his intentions and motivations in making the initial assertion that he did (even if it had been substantiated)?

    It so happens, however, that said statements are not alone. Nor are they an anomaly. Far from it, for Mr. Walker has an extensive history of making embarrassingly simplistic, over-the-top, low-rent blame the Jews comments, and regurgitating wild, unsubstantiated claims of vast, labyrinthine, implausible conspiracies, nearly all of which have The Jews as some monolithic, stealth diabolical force behind everything.

    If, in any of your comments in this thread you at any point acknowledged any of the factors I have enumerated and indicated above, or indicated that you took them into account, I missed it. What I most certainly did not miss, however, were your repeated, cavalier, references to the DiAngelo kibbutz matter as if it were merely some trivial, utterly innocuous matter devoid of the contextual, decidedly malicious implications that I enumerated above.

    Thus, I am left with no choice but to conclude either disingenuousness , or, if sincere, obtuseness/ lack of insight on your part.

    As if all that I have enumerated above were not enough, there is also an additional factor here that cannot be overlooked. This is, to be quite frank, the matter of your own reputation/persona as a commenter here. Now, to be clear, I would certainly not place you in the same category, neither as the aforementioned Mr. Walker nor of any number other individuals here who are, to varying degrees, excessively Jew-hostile and/or Jew-obsessed. Perhaps nowhere near the same category as any of the aforementioned. Nonetheless, the objective fact remains, if nothing else, the following. Out of what are thousands (?) of regular commenters to this site, you are one of a select few whom Mr. Ron Unz himself has singled-out for "elevation" as "excellent".

    Just how is that relevant here, you ask? Well, considering (A) that Mr. Unz's publicly stated rabidly anti-Judaic and anti-Jewish views include explicit endorsements of both the classic blood libel that Jews ritually murdered Christian children, as well as outright Holocaust denial; and (B) that at least two of the other individuals with whom you share the gold-star "elevated excellent commenter" distinction are, if anything, even more rabidly anti-Judaic and anti-Jewish in their expressed views than is Mr. Unz...

    Well, how surprising or even less-than-reasonable would it be for anyone who finds such views repellent to, based upon what I enumerated above, be even more wary, defensive or uncomfortable in relation to the comments of yours in question than said comments would already warrant? Yet another example, it would seem, that Jews aren't the only ones for whom self-awareness can be in short supply...

    Replies: @res

    That is a thoughtful and fair criticism. Thank you for taking the time to expound on it so calmly and thoroughly. Let me cover some select points and see if that is enough of an answer. If you feel I have missed something important please point it out and ask me to respond to it specifically.

    Thus, I am left with no choice but to conclude either disingenuousness , or, if sincere, obtuseness/ lack of insight on your part.

    I can certainly understand why you (and presumably TL as well) would conclude that. I ask you to consider a third possibility (which I believe to be reality).

    At this point in life I consider myself skeptical of Jewish power, nepotistic tendencies, and certain “typical” styles of argument. I tend to get along quite well with Jews in real life (we share many values, not least the value of learning).

    That said I am vastly disturbed by some aspects of Jewish influence in this country. Not least the overrepresentation while being at the vanguard of the disparate impact idea (which is stunningly hypocritical IMHO).

    One role I take here is trying to advocate a middle position on “the Jewish question” in the US. To that end I tend to try to engage in thoughtful argument with “Jewish advocates” who I think take things too far.

    I would argue more with overt anti-Semites (the real definition I see as blame all Jews for everything, not the all too common definition of people who say things some Jew does not like), but I figure the Jewish advocates have that well covered, and frankly I have a bit of sympathy given how they do cover it.

    But I try to fill what I see as a shortage of reasoned criticism of some aspects of Jewish behavior and role in our society. Though I tend to become a bit immoderate when I feel the stereotypes start coming to life. And I do believe in fighting fire with fire.

    (ran out of time filling in this part will expand later if you want)

    So not lack of self awareness (I think) and not disingenuousness (else why would I be writing this?). Rather a considered position with my primary objections being lying, personal attacks, and contentless rhetoric.

    Out of what are thousands (?) of regular commenters to this site, you are one of a select few whom Mr. Ron Unz himself has singled-out for “elevation” as “excellent”. (res: rest relevant but omitted for length)

    Yes. That is a noticeable quality of the gold stars (and was commented on at the time). I was somewhat surprised and disappointed that commenter Jack D did not get one. Though he and I argue sometimes (not coincidentally usually about perceptions of Jews) I consider him one of the best commenters on the Unz Review.

    It is also worth noting that the relevant comparison is more to what I would estimate as low hundreds or high tens of frequent commenters.

    I don’t pretend to know why Ron does what he does, but my assumption was always that I received my gold star in response to detailed and well researched comments on various topics. In particular in James Thompson’s blog (not sure if you read that).

    Back to this thread. I do admit to baiting TL in this thread. In previous discussions others have implied she (?) is Hasbara. I don’t know about that, but the rhetorical techniques I have repeatedly called out in this thread strike me as Hasbara-like (whether amateur or professional). There is nothing wrong with advocating for your people, but I have a problem when I feel it crosses over into denial of and/or refusing to engage with reality. And I placed TL’s dismissal of Hail’s post as evidence into that category.

    Baiting someone is a good way to get them to expose themselves. It is definitely not nice, but TL has hardly been nice to me (or others in earlier conversations, note my link to Twinkie’s compendium above).

    I have been a high volume commenter on the Unz Review for a long time. During that period I have engaged in numerous interactions with trolls of various sorts who usually have some sort of agenda. I have determined that the best way to deal with that is to present my evidence and arguments as best I can while at the same time fighting fire with fire.

    Sometimes I make a mistake and engage in aggressive fashion with someone I misunderstood who did not deserve it. That is regrettable, but I consider it a cost of doing business. And I try to make it right once I realize I have erred. I refuse to let people run me over with false accusations, rhetoric, and ad hominems.

    One the other hand, I will take a lot from people whom I think are bringing useful perspectives, evidence, or arguments to a conversation. As I have said before, I am all about Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR). I like to think mine is quite good despite some of my less admirable comments.

    Do you have any dispute with my characterization of TL’s rhetoric and hypocritical tone policing in this thread? Because that is what I consider to be at issue in this conversation at this point. Do you honestly consider TL’s behavior in this thread any better than mine? Don’t excuse bad behavior from people who happen to be on your “side” while criticizing mine.

    P.S. This comment is not as well written as I would like (and probably a bit more immoderate, sorry about that). I have to be somewhere else soon and thought timeliness more important than polish. If you like I will continue this conversation later.

    • Thanks: Dissident
    • Replies: @res
    @res

    It's been a long day and I am tired. I will return to this tomorrow. As well as TL's comments 144 and 145.

    I will just leave with one thought. It is my honest perception that if (some, but who seem to think they are speaking for the group) Jews choose to make someone as moderate as me an enemy and treat me as such they are making a mistake. I used to wonder why Jews had been kicked out of so many places. I don't really wonder so much anymore. Even if I don't think that is the right solution.

    P.S. Dissident, I would be interesting in your reply to my earlier comment.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

  144. @res
    @Triteleia Laxa


    You are alleging that I am part of some conspiracy against you; presumably you consider such conspiracy “malign?”
     
    Where? You have to do a massive amount of unjustified inferring to get to there. The quote you gave (the 123 pattern) is quite descriptive of your behavior in this thread. It is you who thinks it is indicative of a conspiracy. Which says something to me. I call that pattern fairly typical of human nature. Though some people do it more than others. And it does seem to be especially popular in the Current Year. I tend to use it as a marker of people who are just throwing denials at the wall and seeing what sticks. That is disingenuous IMHO, but it does not require a conspiracy.


    Since you have been consistently aggressive with me, even after I made a personal plea for you to stop, I decided that you needed to be accurately surmised in a more honest version of your own tone.
     
    You know, it might be constructive not to embody the crying out as he strikes you stereotype quite so well. You tone policing others is quite funny. Shall we return to Twinkie's compendium of quotes from you in the other thread?
    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/jewishness-will-become-problematic/#comment-4721285

    This means that your position is either that I agree with you, based on evidence that I can’t see, or I am malign; which is exactly how Kendi and Critical Race Theory practitioners work.
     
    It must be nice to be omniscient and know what everyone else is thinking. Though it would be better if you were actually correct. What I am asking for you to acknowledge is the following.

    1. The Hail post (which came up near the top of my search, as I assume it did for yours) was worth discussing as evidence. Not even acknowledging that elephant in the room (it seems pretty likely that is the original source for JW123's comment) strikes me as disingenuous. Especially given your use of "not credible" to avoid even engaging with it. Many (most?) would say the Unz Review is not credible and dismiss well documented evidence without engaging with it just because it came from here. I would think people who comment here are better than that and would be willing to discuss arguments and evidence on their merits (or lack thereof).

    2. The ARCHIVE link going away is odd and interesting. It's not like someone's blog just disappeared. A specific request has to be made to make that happen.

    If the archive link was present and was both as Hail said and could be verified as being from her husband would you consider that evidence credible? And again, if the kibbutz visit idea is truly innocuous why did you care enough to dispute it?

    They demand that people accept minorities’ “lived experience” over their own
     
    Do you really not understand that you did EXACTLY that with your my prejudices vs. your lifetime perception statement?! That is why I keep harping on it. Your attempt to map my behavior to that is much weaker. Yet more hypocrisy and projection.

    P.S. Your comments are an interesting exercise in rhetoric. Hopefully others can see how little substance and how much hypocrisy underlies that rhetoric though.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    Do you really not understand that you did EXACTLY that with your my prejudices vs. your lifetime perception statement

    No, I did not. I said that I couldn’t be expected to change my mind based on your prejudices. I did not say you could be expected to change yours based on mine; even if I used a more positive word to describe my own – sue me.

    You seem to have great difficulty in understanding the difference.

    Like Kendi, etc, I believe you are sincere, but you aggressively telling me that an anonymous blogger, with no source, constitutes evidence that I should take seriously, is farcical.

    You are also trying to have it both ways, by claiming to not insinuate bad faith conspiracy in my presence and yet also denying you insinuate it, in order to allege my calling out your insinuation is evidence for your insinuation, is Kafkaesque hilarious.

    You selectively quoting Twinkie who attacked me in exactly the same late middle age, utterly stuck, man way, without including the context, is revealing. There are no prizes here, except how you honour yourself and what you learn.

    You don’t have to admit it, but if you go back and read my posts and my summary of your behaviour, you will learn a lot that will help you in your day to day life. This will be your pattern.

    Your choice. I get you. I hope you one day get yourself.

    There’s no more for me in conversation with you, but I sincerely wish you the best.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Triteleia Laxa

    For Res, though you are referred to in the third person:

    My most patient side has gotten the better of me, so I will quickly explain my thought.

    I asked for a source on the Kibbutz claim, because I had looked Robin up, as she is an interested woman, and I used the word "Kibbutz" for Google Fu purposes; as it is a rare word.

    I found nothing, but a blog by someone who doesn't know her and doesn't link to a source which I can reference.

    This led to me asking for a link I could trust; while various odd, obviously fanatical anti-Semites, were posting their usual conspiracy theory noise.

    I was then provided a link to the sourceless blog claim, by Res, and then felt like I was aggressively, by Res, told that I had to accept it as credible.

    I also felt like a number of insinuations were added and the aggression continued, so I started to shine a light on Res's behaviour in defence. I only did this a number of posts in; and I felt it reasonable, considering his unpleasant behaviour. I also feel it might be helpful for him as he didn't seem to be aware of what he was doing.

    I notice that he has since confirmed his insinuations and desire to be aggressive as a tactic. I actually don't think he was fully aware of this at the time, but I am glad he is aware of it now. I am therefore also glad that I moved onto asking: why would he need to be like that?

    This is not the first thread that he has made such insinuations based on no more than me not taking a virulently anti-Semitic line; which, as a standard for crime, would make 99% of people criminals; but I don't think this explains it and I can't shake the feeling that he, like quite a few commenters here, just has a problem with women. I could be wrong, but I might as well be honest about that. It is a blog where it is normal for commenters to say that civilization can only be saved by the enslavement of women, for example.

    Let it all out, free speech is great and must be protected, but noticing goes in all directions.

  145. @Triteleia Laxa
    @res


    Do you really not understand that you did EXACTLY that with your my prejudices vs. your lifetime perception statement
     
    No, I did not. I said that I couldn't be expected to change my mind based on your prejudices. I did not say you could be expected to change yours based on mine; even if I used a more positive word to describe my own - sue me.

    You seem to have great difficulty in understanding the difference.

    Like Kendi, etc, I believe you are sincere, but you aggressively telling me that an anonymous blogger, with no source, constitutes evidence that I should take seriously, is farcical.

    You are also trying to have it both ways, by claiming to not insinuate bad faith conspiracy in my presence and yet also denying you insinuate it, in order to allege my calling out your insinuation is evidence for your insinuation, is Kafkaesque hilarious.

    You selectively quoting Twinkie who attacked me in exactly the same late middle age, utterly stuck, man way, without including the context, is revealing. There are no prizes here, except how you honour yourself and what you learn.

    You don't have to admit it, but if you go back and read my posts and my summary of your behaviour, you will learn a lot that will help you in your day to day life. This will be your pattern.

    Your choice. I get you. I hope you one day get yourself.

    There's no more for me in conversation with you, but I sincerely wish you the best.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    For Res, though you are referred to in the third person:

    My most patient side has gotten the better of me, so I will quickly explain my thought.

    I asked for a source on the Kibbutz claim, because I had looked Robin up, as she is an interested woman, and I used the word “Kibbutz” for Google Fu purposes; as it is a rare word.

    I found nothing, but a blog by someone who doesn’t know her and doesn’t link to a source which I can reference.

    This led to me asking for a link I could trust; while various odd, obviously fanatical anti-Semites, were posting their usual conspiracy theory noise.

    I was then provided a link to the sourceless blog claim, by Res, and then felt like I was aggressively, by Res, told that I had to accept it as credible.

    I also felt like a number of insinuations were added and the aggression continued, so I started to shine a light on Res’s behaviour in defence. I only did this a number of posts in; and I felt it reasonable, considering his unpleasant behaviour. I also feel it might be helpful for him as he didn’t seem to be aware of what he was doing.

    I notice that he has since confirmed his insinuations and desire to be aggressive as a tactic. I actually don’t think he was fully aware of this at the time, but I am glad he is aware of it now. I am therefore also glad that I moved onto asking: why would he need to be like that?

    This is not the first thread that he has made such insinuations based on no more than me not taking a virulently anti-Semitic line; which, as a standard for crime, would make 99% of people criminals; but I don’t think this explains it and I can’t shake the feeling that he, like quite a few commenters here, just has a problem with women. I could be wrong, but I might as well be honest about that. It is a blog where it is normal for commenters to say that civilization can only be saved by the enslavement of women, for example.

    Let it all out, free speech is great and must be protected, but noticing goes in all directions.

  146. res says:
    @res
    @Dissident

    That is a thoughtful and fair criticism. Thank you for taking the time to expound on it so calmly and thoroughly. Let me cover some select points and see if that is enough of an answer. If you feel I have missed something important please point it out and ask me to respond to it specifically.


    Thus, I am left with no choice but to conclude either disingenuousness , or, if sincere, obtuseness/ lack of insight on your part.
     
    I can certainly understand why you (and presumably TL as well) would conclude that. I ask you to consider a third possibility (which I believe to be reality).

    At this point in life I consider myself skeptical of Jewish power, nepotistic tendencies, and certain "typical" styles of argument. I tend to get along quite well with Jews in real life (we share many values, not least the value of learning).

    That said I am vastly disturbed by some aspects of Jewish influence in this country. Not least the overrepresentation while being at the vanguard of the disparate impact idea (which is stunningly hypocritical IMHO).

    One role I take here is trying to advocate a middle position on "the Jewish question" in the US. To that end I tend to try to engage in thoughtful argument with "Jewish advocates" who I think take things too far.

    I would argue more with overt anti-Semites (the real definition I see as blame all Jews for everything, not the all too common definition of people who say things some Jew does not like), but I figure the Jewish advocates have that well covered, and frankly I have a bit of sympathy given how they do cover it.

    But I try to fill what I see as a shortage of reasoned criticism of some aspects of Jewish behavior and role in our society. Though I tend to become a bit immoderate when I feel the stereotypes start coming to life. And I do believe in fighting fire with fire.

    (ran out of time filling in this part will expand later if you want)

    So not lack of self awareness (I think) and not disingenuousness (else why would I be writing this?). Rather a considered position with my primary objections being lying, personal attacks, and contentless rhetoric.

    Out of what are thousands (?) of regular commenters to this site, you are one of a select few whom Mr. Ron Unz himself has singled-out for “elevation” as “excellent”. (res: rest relevant but omitted for length)
     
    Yes. That is a noticeable quality of the gold stars (and was commented on at the time). I was somewhat surprised and disappointed that commenter Jack D did not get one. Though he and I argue sometimes (not coincidentally usually about perceptions of Jews) I consider him one of the best commenters on the Unz Review.

    It is also worth noting that the relevant comparison is more to what I would estimate as low hundreds or high tens of frequent commenters.

    I don't pretend to know why Ron does what he does, but my assumption was always that I received my gold star in response to detailed and well researched comments on various topics. In particular in James Thompson's blog (not sure if you read that).

    Back to this thread. I do admit to baiting TL in this thread. In previous discussions others have implied she (?) is Hasbara. I don't know about that, but the rhetorical techniques I have repeatedly called out in this thread strike me as Hasbara-like (whether amateur or professional). There is nothing wrong with advocating for your people, but I have a problem when I feel it crosses over into denial of and/or refusing to engage with reality. And I placed TL's dismissal of Hail's post as evidence into that category.

    Baiting someone is a good way to get them to expose themselves. It is definitely not nice, but TL has hardly been nice to me (or others in earlier conversations, note my link to Twinkie's compendium above).

    I have been a high volume commenter on the Unz Review for a long time. During that period I have engaged in numerous interactions with trolls of various sorts who usually have some sort of agenda. I have determined that the best way to deal with that is to present my evidence and arguments as best I can while at the same time fighting fire with fire.

    Sometimes I make a mistake and engage in aggressive fashion with someone I misunderstood who did not deserve it. That is regrettable, but I consider it a cost of doing business. And I try to make it right once I realize I have erred. I refuse to let people run me over with false accusations, rhetoric, and ad hominems.

    One the other hand, I will take a lot from people whom I think are bringing useful perspectives, evidence, or arguments to a conversation. As I have said before, I am all about Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR). I like to think mine is quite good despite some of my less admirable comments.

    Do you have any dispute with my characterization of TL's rhetoric and hypocritical tone policing in this thread? Because that is what I consider to be at issue in this conversation at this point. Do you honestly consider TL's behavior in this thread any better than mine? Don't excuse bad behavior from people who happen to be on your "side" while criticizing mine.

    P.S. This comment is not as well written as I would like (and probably a bit more immoderate, sorry about that). I have to be somewhere else soon and thought timeliness more important than polish. If you like I will continue this conversation later.

    Replies: @res

    It’s been a long day and I am tired. I will return to this tomorrow. As well as TL’s comments 144 and 145.

    I will just leave with one thought. It is my honest perception that if (some, but who seem to think they are speaking for the group) Jews choose to make someone as moderate as me an enemy and treat me as such they are making a mistake. I used to wonder why Jews had been kicked out of so many places. I don’t really wonder so much anymore. Even if I don’t think that is the right solution.

    P.S. Dissident, I would be interesting in your reply to my earlier comment.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    I'm not Jewish and I am not considering anyone an enemy, yet you're talking about pogroms and in such extreme language.

    I can't imagine making threats of ethnic cleansing over any disagreement; nevermind one like this.

    Don't you find it interesting that you do?

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @res

  147. @res
    @res

    It's been a long day and I am tired. I will return to this tomorrow. As well as TL's comments 144 and 145.

    I will just leave with one thought. It is my honest perception that if (some, but who seem to think they are speaking for the group) Jews choose to make someone as moderate as me an enemy and treat me as such they are making a mistake. I used to wonder why Jews had been kicked out of so many places. I don't really wonder so much anymore. Even if I don't think that is the right solution.

    P.S. Dissident, I would be interesting in your reply to my earlier comment.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    I’m not Jewish and I am not considering anyone an enemy, yet you’re talking about pogroms and in such extreme language.

    I can’t imagine making threats of ethnic cleansing over any disagreement; nevermind one like this.

    Don’t you find it interesting that you do?

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Please also stop lying to yourself that you're just a humble moderate, or that you're representative of some mainstream feeling. You're the starred acolyte of the world's most influential anti-Semite.

    Have some self-awareness.

    Think about it. An anonymous commenter calls you middle-aged and stuck, not unprovoked, and you start threatening pogroms!

    Everyone has a dark side. It influences their perceptions and traps them in their delusions. It isn't bad though, it is just where they haven't shone the light of theirself-awareness. You can be a radical anti-Semite, you can be whatever you need to be, just be aware of what you are.

    Him there they found
    Squat like a toad, close at the ear of Eve,
    Assaying by his devilish art to reach
    The organs of her fancy, and with them to forge
    Illusions as he list, phantasms and dreams.


    Him thus intent Ithuriel with his spear
    Touched lightly; for no falsehood can endure
    Touch of celestial temper, but returns
    Of force to its own likeness. Up he starts,
    Discovered and surprised.

    Replies: @res

    , @res
    @Triteleia Laxa


    I’m not Jewish and I am not considering anyone an enemy, yet you’re talking about pogroms and in such extreme language.
     
    Is any of that true? Because reading this thread I have trouble believing anything you wrote there.

    I explicitly said I don't think pogroms are the right solution. Yet you consider my observing the historical reality of them and commenting that I can now understand why they happened is beyond the pale.

    I can also understand how the Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda have attempted to genocide each other. That does not mean I approve. Ethnic conflicts which escalate over an extended period (and in most cases I would say neither side is blameless) are a terrible thing.

    I can’t imagine making threats of ethnic cleansing over any disagreement; nevermind one like this.

    Don’t you find it interesting that you do?
     
    Indeed. I also can't imagine falsely accusing someone of doing so. I did no such thing.

    The good thing is that that entire comment of yours is so over the top that any thinking person reading this exchange can see it.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

  148. @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    I'm not Jewish and I am not considering anyone an enemy, yet you're talking about pogroms and in such extreme language.

    I can't imagine making threats of ethnic cleansing over any disagreement; nevermind one like this.

    Don't you find it interesting that you do?

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @res

    Please also stop lying to yourself that you’re just a humble moderate, or that you’re representative of some mainstream feeling. You’re the starred acolyte of the world’s most influential anti-Semite.

    Have some self-awareness.

    Think about it. An anonymous commenter calls you middle-aged and stuck, not unprovoked, and you start threatening pogroms!

    Everyone has a dark side. It influences their perceptions and traps them in their delusions. It isn’t bad though, it is just where they haven’t shone the light of theirself-awareness. You can be a radical anti-Semite, you can be whatever you need to be, just be aware of what you are.

    Him there they found
    Squat like a toad, close at the ear of Eve,
    Assaying by his devilish art to reach
    The organs of her fancy, and with them to forge
    Illusions as he list, phantasms and dreams.

    Him thus intent Ithuriel with his spear
    Touched lightly; for no falsehood can endure
    Touch of celestial temper, but returns
    Of force to its own likeness. Up he starts,
    Discovered and surprised.

    • Replies: @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    It is fascinating how personal you make this. Above you accused me of hating women (another false accusation). It's not that. What I do dislike is people who make every argument personal and seem to only respond in terms of emotions (feels) and personal attacks rather than attempting to use evidence and reasoned argument.

    I think your last two comments were sufficiently over the top that I don't need to respond to your earlier comments. If anyone else feels I have failed to respond to a worthwhile point (I struggle finding those in TL's recent comments) then please let me know and I will do so.

    I thought I would revisit this earlier comment of yours because I did not pay enough attention to this part at the time.
    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/jewishness-will-become-problematic/#comment-4728651


    I am interested in ideas. I am particularly interested in developing my own; as I love learning new things, but I learn intuitively and through putting myself in the perspective of others. This makes some subjects very difficult to learn about in ordinary life – like politics.

    I am also interested in people. Why they think like they do, and how it serves them. The more extreme the people; the more likely I will find them interesting.
     
    That's a useful approach. One just has to be careful about assuming they are interpreting others correctly. And I think that approach is most useful in combination with (rather than instead of) reasoned argument based on evidence.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

  149. • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @MEH 0910

    It is a midwit revolution, but I don't think it will sell that well for very long. The leading Democratic party nominations for NYC Mayor are all against "defund the police", and I feel that the next NYC Mayor will actually be an ex-policeman and ex-Republican.

  150. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1407029185101537283

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    It is a midwit revolution, but I don’t think it will sell that well for very long. The leading Democratic party nominations for NYC Mayor are all against “defund the police”, and I feel that the next NYC Mayor will actually be an ex-policeman and ex-Republican.

  151. res says:
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    I'm not Jewish and I am not considering anyone an enemy, yet you're talking about pogroms and in such extreme language.

    I can't imagine making threats of ethnic cleansing over any disagreement; nevermind one like this.

    Don't you find it interesting that you do?

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @res

    I’m not Jewish and I am not considering anyone an enemy, yet you’re talking about pogroms and in such extreme language.

    Is any of that true? Because reading this thread I have trouble believing anything you wrote there.

    I explicitly said I don’t think pogroms are the right solution. Yet you consider my observing the historical reality of them and commenting that I can now understand why they happened is beyond the pale.

    I can also understand how the Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda have attempted to genocide each other. That does not mean I approve. Ethnic conflicts which escalate over an extended period (and in most cases I would say neither side is blameless) are a terrible thing.

    I can’t imagine making threats of ethnic cleansing over any disagreement; nevermind one like this.

    Don’t you find it interesting that you do?

    Indeed. I also can’t imagine falsely accusing someone of doing so. I did no such thing.

    The good thing is that that entire comment of yours is so over the top that any thinking person reading this exchange can see it.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @res


    I explicitly said I don’t think pogroms are the right solution.
     
    Husband: I took the bins out.

    Wife: you missed one.

    Husband: No I didn't, and, although I don't think it is the right solution, I can see why men murder all of their neighbours. The neighbours deserve it, but as I am the most peaceful and balanced man alive, I am mostly against it.

    Wife: wtf!

    Husband: I said I don't think murdering our neighbours is the right solution, how could you falsely accused of threatening something like that?

    Replies: @res

  152. res says:
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Please also stop lying to yourself that you're just a humble moderate, or that you're representative of some mainstream feeling. You're the starred acolyte of the world's most influential anti-Semite.

    Have some self-awareness.

    Think about it. An anonymous commenter calls you middle-aged and stuck, not unprovoked, and you start threatening pogroms!

    Everyone has a dark side. It influences their perceptions and traps them in their delusions. It isn't bad though, it is just where they haven't shone the light of theirself-awareness. You can be a radical anti-Semite, you can be whatever you need to be, just be aware of what you are.

    Him there they found
    Squat like a toad, close at the ear of Eve,
    Assaying by his devilish art to reach
    The organs of her fancy, and with them to forge
    Illusions as he list, phantasms and dreams.


    Him thus intent Ithuriel with his spear
    Touched lightly; for no falsehood can endure
    Touch of celestial temper, but returns
    Of force to its own likeness. Up he starts,
    Discovered and surprised.

    Replies: @res

    It is fascinating how personal you make this. Above you accused me of hating women (another false accusation). It’s not that. What I do dislike is people who make every argument personal and seem to only respond in terms of emotions (feels) and personal attacks rather than attempting to use evidence and reasoned argument.

    I think your last two comments were sufficiently over the top that I don’t need to respond to your earlier comments. If anyone else feels I have failed to respond to a worthwhile point (I struggle finding those in TL’s recent comments) then please let me know and I will do so.

    I thought I would revisit this earlier comment of yours because I did not pay enough attention to this part at the time.
    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/jewishness-will-become-problematic/#comment-4728651

    I am interested in ideas. I am particularly interested in developing my own; as I love learning new things, but I learn intuitively and through putting myself in the perspective of others. This makes some subjects very difficult to learn about in ordinary life – like politics.

    I am also interested in people. Why they think like they do, and how it serves them. The more extreme the people; the more likely I will find them interesting.

    That’s a useful approach. One just has to be careful about assuming they are interpreting others correctly. And I think that approach is most useful in combination with (rather than instead of) reasoned argument based on evidence.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @res


    I do dislike is people who make every argument personal and seem to only respond in terms of emotions (feels) and personal attacks rather than attempting to use evidence and reasoned argument
     
    This is what projection really is. You repress your own emotions; leaving them in the dark and unacknowledged.

    You then take them and put them onto other people, when you get flustered and highly emotional. You don't consciously realise that you are doing this; so your arguments become weirder and weirder. You are being led around by your unconscious.

    Men tend to associate their emotions with women and everyone likes projecting onto the Jews. You are a middled-aged cliche. This is not a bad thing, as it is easy to work through, but surely you must be noticing that I have a point by now?

    "I am not emotional, I just rant about pogroms when someone calls me middle-aged...I am the most objective and serious man in existence."

    Replies: @res

  153. @res
    @Triteleia Laxa


    I’m not Jewish and I am not considering anyone an enemy, yet you’re talking about pogroms and in such extreme language.
     
    Is any of that true? Because reading this thread I have trouble believing anything you wrote there.

    I explicitly said I don't think pogroms are the right solution. Yet you consider my observing the historical reality of them and commenting that I can now understand why they happened is beyond the pale.

    I can also understand how the Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda have attempted to genocide each other. That does not mean I approve. Ethnic conflicts which escalate over an extended period (and in most cases I would say neither side is blameless) are a terrible thing.

    I can’t imagine making threats of ethnic cleansing over any disagreement; nevermind one like this.

    Don’t you find it interesting that you do?
     
    Indeed. I also can't imagine falsely accusing someone of doing so. I did no such thing.

    The good thing is that that entire comment of yours is so over the top that any thinking person reading this exchange can see it.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    I explicitly said I don’t think pogroms are the right solution.

    Husband: I took the bins out.

    Wife: you missed one.

    Husband: No I didn’t, and, although I don’t think it is the right solution, I can see why men murder all of their neighbours. The neighbours deserve it, but as I am the most peaceful and balanced man alive, I am mostly against it.

    Wife: wtf!

    Husband: I said I don’t think murdering our neighbours is the right solution, how could you falsely accused of threatening something like that?

    • Replies: @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Could you come up with a more false equivalency? On the other hand, yes, you probably can. Your intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking.

  154. @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    It is fascinating how personal you make this. Above you accused me of hating women (another false accusation). It's not that. What I do dislike is people who make every argument personal and seem to only respond in terms of emotions (feels) and personal attacks rather than attempting to use evidence and reasoned argument.

    I think your last two comments were sufficiently over the top that I don't need to respond to your earlier comments. If anyone else feels I have failed to respond to a worthwhile point (I struggle finding those in TL's recent comments) then please let me know and I will do so.

    I thought I would revisit this earlier comment of yours because I did not pay enough attention to this part at the time.
    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/jewishness-will-become-problematic/#comment-4728651


    I am interested in ideas. I am particularly interested in developing my own; as I love learning new things, but I learn intuitively and through putting myself in the perspective of others. This makes some subjects very difficult to learn about in ordinary life – like politics.

    I am also interested in people. Why they think like they do, and how it serves them. The more extreme the people; the more likely I will find them interesting.
     
    That's a useful approach. One just has to be careful about assuming they are interpreting others correctly. And I think that approach is most useful in combination with (rather than instead of) reasoned argument based on evidence.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    I do dislike is people who make every argument personal and seem to only respond in terms of emotions (feels) and personal attacks rather than attempting to use evidence and reasoned argument

    This is what projection really is. You repress your own emotions; leaving them in the dark and unacknowledged.

    You then take them and put them onto other people, when you get flustered and highly emotional. You don’t consciously realise that you are doing this; so your arguments become weirder and weirder. You are being led around by your unconscious.

    Men tend to associate their emotions with women and everyone likes projecting onto the Jews. You are a middled-aged cliche. This is not a bad thing, as it is easy to work through, but surely you must be noticing that I have a point by now?

    “I am not emotional, I just rant about pogroms when someone calls me middle-aged…I am the most objective and serious man in existence.”

    • Replies: @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    The hypocrisy and projection on your own part is breathtaking as well. You are a piece of work.

    As a sample, I have never claimed not to be emotional. I try to maintain an objective tone because I think it makes it easier to discuss contentious topics. Sometimes I fail at that. It's called being human. (then there is the case where I am attacked and feel free to attack back, while still trying to bring fact based arguments to the conversation)

    P.S. Everyone, notice how TL's comment was one long string of ad hominems with no real argument.

    https://abagond.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/disagreement-hierarchy.jpg

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

  155. @Triteleia Laxa
    @res


    I explicitly said I don’t think pogroms are the right solution.
     
    Husband: I took the bins out.

    Wife: you missed one.

    Husband: No I didn't, and, although I don't think it is the right solution, I can see why men murder all of their neighbours. The neighbours deserve it, but as I am the most peaceful and balanced man alive, I am mostly against it.

    Wife: wtf!

    Husband: I said I don't think murdering our neighbours is the right solution, how could you falsely accused of threatening something like that?

    Replies: @res

    Could you come up with a more false equivalency? On the other hand, yes, you probably can. Your intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking.

  156. res says:
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @res


    I do dislike is people who make every argument personal and seem to only respond in terms of emotions (feels) and personal attacks rather than attempting to use evidence and reasoned argument
     
    This is what projection really is. You repress your own emotions; leaving them in the dark and unacknowledged.

    You then take them and put them onto other people, when you get flustered and highly emotional. You don't consciously realise that you are doing this; so your arguments become weirder and weirder. You are being led around by your unconscious.

    Men tend to associate their emotions with women and everyone likes projecting onto the Jews. You are a middled-aged cliche. This is not a bad thing, as it is easy to work through, but surely you must be noticing that I have a point by now?

    "I am not emotional, I just rant about pogroms when someone calls me middle-aged...I am the most objective and serious man in existence."

    Replies: @res

    The hypocrisy and projection on your own part is breathtaking as well. You are a piece of work.

    As a sample, I have never claimed not to be emotional. I try to maintain an objective tone because I think it makes it easier to discuss contentious topics. Sometimes I fail at that. It’s called being human. (then there is the case where I am attacked and feel free to attack back, while still trying to bring fact based arguments to the conversation)

    P.S. Everyone, notice how TL’s comment was one long string of ad hominems with no real argument.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    Did you make any "factual arguments"?

    Or did you just get hysterical and anxious about feeling shame?

    You insisted that an anonymous blogger with no accessible further sourcing must be taken by all as truth; but that absurdity is the limit of it.

    Why have you gotten so hysterical anyway? I am a nobody, with no influence over your life.

    If you have a repeated conversation with someone in your head, not only is that other voice you, but that other voice is probably right. Why else would that conversation repeat?

    I understand why you are so defensive. Do you?

    Replies: @res

  157. @res
    @Triteleia Laxa

    The hypocrisy and projection on your own part is breathtaking as well. You are a piece of work.

    As a sample, I have never claimed not to be emotional. I try to maintain an objective tone because I think it makes it easier to discuss contentious topics. Sometimes I fail at that. It's called being human. (then there is the case where I am attacked and feel free to attack back, while still trying to bring fact based arguments to the conversation)

    P.S. Everyone, notice how TL's comment was one long string of ad hominems with no real argument.

    https://abagond.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/disagreement-hierarchy.jpg

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    Did you make any “factual arguments”?

    Or did you just get hysterical and anxious about feeling shame?

    You insisted that an anonymous blogger with no accessible further sourcing must be taken by all as truth; but that absurdity is the limit of it.

    Why have you gotten so hysterical anyway? I am a nobody, with no influence over your life.

    If you have a repeated conversation with someone in your head, not only is that other voice you, but that other voice is probably right. Why else would that conversation repeat?

    I understand why you are so defensive. Do you?

    • Replies: @res
    @Triteleia Laxa


    Did you make any “factual arguments”?
     
    Thanks for making clear how little attention you paid during our discussion.

    Or did you just get hysterical and anxious about feeling shame?
     
    One of us is being hysterical right now. And it is not me.

    You insisted that an anonymous blogger with no accessible further sourcing must be taken by all as truth; but that absurdity is the limit of it.
     
    No. If you really believe that then try proving it with direct quotes rather than your imagination.

    Why have you gotten so hysterical anyway? I am a nobody, with no influence over your life.
     
    One of us is being hysterical right now. And it is not me.

    If you have a repeated conversation with someone in your head, not only is that other voice you, but that other voice is probably right. Why else would that conversation repeat?
     
    Not sure what that even means. But given that you seem to think it relevant it seems more likely to apply to you than me. And it does sound kind of hysterical, now that you mention it.

    I understand why you are so defensive. Do you?
     
    Please do tell. This should be amusing. You have a vivid imagination. Then after you do that think about how defensive your reactions here are.

    It really is entertaining to deal with someone who is all ad hominem all the time. I just needed to figure out TL is someone who should not be taken seriously. For entertainment value only.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @photondancer

  158. @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    Did you make any "factual arguments"?

    Or did you just get hysterical and anxious about feeling shame?

    You insisted that an anonymous blogger with no accessible further sourcing must be taken by all as truth; but that absurdity is the limit of it.

    Why have you gotten so hysterical anyway? I am a nobody, with no influence over your life.

    If you have a repeated conversation with someone in your head, not only is that other voice you, but that other voice is probably right. Why else would that conversation repeat?

    I understand why you are so defensive. Do you?

    Replies: @res

    Did you make any “factual arguments”?

    Thanks for making clear how little attention you paid during our discussion.

    Or did you just get hysterical and anxious about feeling shame?

    One of us is being hysterical right now. And it is not me.

    You insisted that an anonymous blogger with no accessible further sourcing must be taken by all as truth; but that absurdity is the limit of it.

    No. If you really believe that then try proving it with direct quotes rather than your imagination.

    Why have you gotten so hysterical anyway? I am a nobody, with no influence over your life.

    One of us is being hysterical right now. And it is not me.

    If you have a repeated conversation with someone in your head, not only is that other voice you, but that other voice is probably right. Why else would that conversation repeat?

    Not sure what that even means. But given that you seem to think it relevant it seems more likely to apply to you than me. And it does sound kind of hysterical, now that you mention it.

    I understand why you are so defensive. Do you?

    Please do tell. This should be amusing. You have a vivid imagination. Then after you do that think about how defensive your reactions here are.

    It really is entertaining to deal with someone who is all ad hominem all the time. I just needed to figure out TL is someone who should not be taken seriously. For entertainment value only.

    • Thanks: bomag
    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @res

    Give it a month and come back and read this exchange. See how you feel then.

    , @photondancer
    @res

    "I just needed to figure out TL is someone who should not be taken seriously. For entertainment value only."

    Perhaps you did not read Audacious Epigone's blog; if you had you would have already seen TL's style. Though I was still surprised when she said feminists were women who write about their hair in the NYT. Anyway, thanks for your extraordinary patience and generosity in this thread.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @Triteleia Laxa

  159. @res
    @Triteleia Laxa


    Did you make any “factual arguments”?
     
    Thanks for making clear how little attention you paid during our discussion.

    Or did you just get hysterical and anxious about feeling shame?
     
    One of us is being hysterical right now. And it is not me.

    You insisted that an anonymous blogger with no accessible further sourcing must be taken by all as truth; but that absurdity is the limit of it.
     
    No. If you really believe that then try proving it with direct quotes rather than your imagination.

    Why have you gotten so hysterical anyway? I am a nobody, with no influence over your life.
     
    One of us is being hysterical right now. And it is not me.

    If you have a repeated conversation with someone in your head, not only is that other voice you, but that other voice is probably right. Why else would that conversation repeat?
     
    Not sure what that even means. But given that you seem to think it relevant it seems more likely to apply to you than me. And it does sound kind of hysterical, now that you mention it.

    I understand why you are so defensive. Do you?
     
    Please do tell. This should be amusing. You have a vivid imagination. Then after you do that think about how defensive your reactions here are.

    It really is entertaining to deal with someone who is all ad hominem all the time. I just needed to figure out TL is someone who should not be taken seriously. For entertainment value only.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @photondancer

    Give it a month and come back and read this exchange. See how you feel then.

    • Agree: res
  160. @res
    @Triteleia Laxa


    Did you make any “factual arguments”?
     
    Thanks for making clear how little attention you paid during our discussion.

    Or did you just get hysterical and anxious about feeling shame?
     
    One of us is being hysterical right now. And it is not me.

    You insisted that an anonymous blogger with no accessible further sourcing must be taken by all as truth; but that absurdity is the limit of it.
     
    No. If you really believe that then try proving it with direct quotes rather than your imagination.

    Why have you gotten so hysterical anyway? I am a nobody, with no influence over your life.
     
    One of us is being hysterical right now. And it is not me.

    If you have a repeated conversation with someone in your head, not only is that other voice you, but that other voice is probably right. Why else would that conversation repeat?
     
    Not sure what that even means. But given that you seem to think it relevant it seems more likely to apply to you than me. And it does sound kind of hysterical, now that you mention it.

    I understand why you are so defensive. Do you?
     
    Please do tell. This should be amusing. You have a vivid imagination. Then after you do that think about how defensive your reactions here are.

    It really is entertaining to deal with someone who is all ad hominem all the time. I just needed to figure out TL is someone who should not be taken seriously. For entertainment value only.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @photondancer

    “I just needed to figure out TL is someone who should not be taken seriously. For entertainment value only.”

    Perhaps you did not read Audacious Epigone’s blog; if you had you would have already seen TL’s style. Though I was still surprised when she said feminists were women who write about their hair in the NYT. Anyway, thanks for your extraordinary patience and generosity in this thread.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @photondancer

    You suggested I read www.feministcurrent.com and take it as the standard for what feminism means nowadays. It is 1.2 million+ in its ranking. Even complete garbage, like www.everydayfeminism.com, comes in at 200,000+.

    Like I said in that thread, as with the Ahmadis and Islam, so too with the feminists like you and feminism. You're not going to take ownership of the name. Sorry. That isn't my fault.

    I feel for you, and your TERF knitting circle; I even support you, but you all are just a punching bag for contemporary feminists to use to proclaim how progressive they are.

    I am sorry that this post is so harsh, but your intervention deserved some honesty.

    Replies: @photondancer

    , @Triteleia Laxa
    @photondancer

    Any political movement which begins to define themselves as against some great "other"; will find that it is a double-edged sword.

    Here is Julie Burchill in 2001 explaining why hating men makes sense for women. Now, she cluelessly wonders why her movement has moved onto supporting men castrating themselves, mostly consists of women acting unconsciously in the cruel ways of the men she disparaged and has seemingly dropped all interest in what was traditionally seen as masculine seriousness.

    Pretty funny use of "MeToo feminism" in the first paragraph though. Incredible how phraseology changes!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/18/gender.uk

  161. @photondancer
    @res

    "I just needed to figure out TL is someone who should not be taken seriously. For entertainment value only."

    Perhaps you did not read Audacious Epigone's blog; if you had you would have already seen TL's style. Though I was still surprised when she said feminists were women who write about their hair in the NYT. Anyway, thanks for your extraordinary patience and generosity in this thread.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @Triteleia Laxa

    You suggested I read http://www.feministcurrent.com and take it as the standard for what feminism means nowadays. It is 1.2 million+ in its ranking. Even complete garbage, like http://www.everydayfeminism.com, comes in at 200,000+.

    Like I said in that thread, as with the Ahmadis and Islam, so too with the feminists like you and feminism. You’re not going to take ownership of the name. Sorry. That isn’t my fault.

    I feel for you, and your TERF knitting circle; I even support you, but you all are just a punching bag for contemporary feminists to use to proclaim how progressive they are.

    I am sorry that this post is so harsh, but your intervention deserved some honesty.

    • Replies: @photondancer
    @Triteleia Laxa

    No, I did not say take that site as the standard. I said read it and see the difference to the hair styling writers for the NYT that you were quoting as feminists. Nor is its ranking significant in any way. I don't believe truth is a popularity contest. I will never accept someone as a feminist just because they say they are one. I will only accept if they show it with their actions.

    Since you don't seem able to read posts honestly or take any opposition with grace, I will no longer bother with your posts.

  162. @photondancer
    @res

    "I just needed to figure out TL is someone who should not be taken seriously. For entertainment value only."

    Perhaps you did not read Audacious Epigone's blog; if you had you would have already seen TL's style. Though I was still surprised when she said feminists were women who write about their hair in the NYT. Anyway, thanks for your extraordinary patience and generosity in this thread.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @Triteleia Laxa

    Any political movement which begins to define themselves as against some great “other”; will find that it is a double-edged sword.

    Here is Julie Burchill in 2001 explaining why hating men makes sense for women. Now, she cluelessly wonders why her movement has moved onto supporting men castrating themselves, mostly consists of women acting unconsciously in the cruel ways of the men she disparaged and has seemingly dropped all interest in what was traditionally seen as masculine seriousness.

    Pretty funny use of “MeToo feminism” in the first paragraph though. Incredible how phraseology changes!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/18/gender.uk

  163. @Paul Jolliffe
    @Bardon Kaldian

    That poet(whoever he really was) knew how to write.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Shake

    And he really was Shake, according to stylometric analysis.

  164. @Triteleia Laxa
    @photondancer

    You suggested I read www.feministcurrent.com and take it as the standard for what feminism means nowadays. It is 1.2 million+ in its ranking. Even complete garbage, like www.everydayfeminism.com, comes in at 200,000+.

    Like I said in that thread, as with the Ahmadis and Islam, so too with the feminists like you and feminism. You're not going to take ownership of the name. Sorry. That isn't my fault.

    I feel for you, and your TERF knitting circle; I even support you, but you all are just a punching bag for contemporary feminists to use to proclaim how progressive they are.

    I am sorry that this post is so harsh, but your intervention deserved some honesty.

    Replies: @photondancer

    No, I did not say take that site as the standard. I said read it and see the difference to the hair styling writers for the NYT that you were quoting as feminists. Nor is its ranking significant in any way. I don’t believe truth is a popularity contest. I will never accept someone as a feminist just because they say they are one. I will only accept if they show it with their actions.

    Since you don’t seem able to read posts honestly or take any opposition with grace, I will no longer bother with your posts.

    • Disagree: Triteleia Laxa

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