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From The News of Australia:

Ridley Scott slammed for whitewashing Asian characters in The Martian
OCTOBER 9, 2015 12:55PM

DIRECTOR Ridley Scott has been slammed for whitewashing Asian characters in his sci-fi blockbuster The Martian.

Whitewashing is the practice of casting white actors in roles originally written for non-white characters.

Starring Matt Damon, the The Martian cast white actress Mackenzie Davis and black actor Chiwetel Ejiofor as characters identified as Asian in the book which the film is adapted from. Guy Aoki, Founding President of the Media Action Network for Asian Americans (MANAA), said the film should be barred from receiving awards for its “racist” casting.

In the movie, they gave the noble Dr. Kapor a Hindu father, like Nikki Minaj.

But it’s a dull role. The only supporting actor in the movie who gets to have fun is Jeff Daniels as the Possibly Evil White Man in Charge. Pretty soon we’ll be reading denunciations of how old white men like Jeff Daniels get all the interesting roles in which the character isn’t wholly virtuous.

 
• Tags: Movies, Science Fiction 
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  1. Guy Aoki also called for a boycott of the 2010 film Avatar: The Last Airbender for the same reason: he wanted an all-Asian cast but the director, M. Night Shyamalan, chose a more diverse multicultural cast.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    GUY Aoki

    http://www.rafu.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Guy-Aoki-8th-grade.jpg

    Looks like he whitewashed his name.
  2. For the awesomest case of replacing a character with one of a different race in sci-fi, see “The Wrath Of Farrakhan” from “In Living Color”.

    Damon Wayans was a great Farrakhan. I haven’t seen “The Wrath Of Khan” but I’m sure it couldn’t possibly have been this good.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910

    I haven’t seen “The Wrath Of Khan” but I’m sure it couldn’t possibly have been this good.
     
    Oh, it sure could possibly have been that good:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7X01_j_oDA
  3. The Martian has Chiwetel Ejiofor to bring more black viewers to see it. But wouldn’t more Asians on the screen bring Asians to see it? In America and worldwide? Where are the Hispanic actors in this movie? Does Hollywood only score SJW pokemon points for dropping in black actors?
    I did see Michael Mann’s BlackHat and it had a repulsive 50-something black actress in it.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Where are the Hispanic actors in this movie?"

    Michael Pena plays the Mexican-American astronaut in the novel. I'm a big Pena fan but he needs a little better dialogue than he gets here.

    Anyway, it's a good movie and is doing deservedly well at the box office.

    , @Priss Factor
    "The Martian has Chiwetel Ejiofor to bring more black viewers to see it. But wouldn’t more Asians on the screen bring Asians to see it?"

    The thing is domestic box office is most important and whites prefer to see blacks than Asians.

    Also it makes whites feel better morally to favor blacks over other racial/ethnic groups. Most of 'white guilt' cult has been invested with blacks.
    , @Jefferson
    "Where are the Hispanic actors in this movie?"

    Michael Pena is Hispanic. But since he is so White looking looking, I can see why you just assumed he was a Gringo just like Jeff Daniels and Matt Damon.
    http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/1st+Annual+Screen+Actors+Guild+SAG+Foundation+6qG_LCpbTPnl.jpg

    , @Salty
    There was a pretty nauseating scene where the benevolent Chinese government (you know, those guys whose anti satellite missile test left millions of cubic kilometers of space littered with debris) bails out JPL.
  4. @Clyde
    The Martian has Chiwetel Ejiofor to bring more black viewers to see it. But wouldn't more Asians on the screen bring Asians to see it? In America and worldwide? Where are the Hispanic actors in this movie? Does Hollywood only score SJW pokemon points for dropping in black actors?
    I did see Michael Mann's BlackHat and it had a repulsive 50-something black actress in it.

    “Where are the Hispanic actors in this movie?”

    Michael Pena plays the Mexican-American astronaut in the novel. I’m a big Pena fan but he needs a little better dialogue than he gets here.

    Anyway, it’s a good movie and is doing deservedly well at the box office.

    • Agree: Jeff77450
  5. The multiculturalists and the folks at MANAA don’t seem to much care when things go in reverse. The original Star Wars cast was 100% white. The movies which followed have been, well, considerably more diverse, and it appears that whites will constitute, at best, a plurality of the cast members in the coming films.

    • Replies: @snorlax
    James Earl Jones?
    , @Truth
    "and it appears that whites will constitute, at best, a plurality of the cast members in the coming films."

    And, it must be said, the same in the cast of the coming nations...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVY1-v97Mic
  6. Steve, slightly OT: I´m surprised you haven´t reviewed or commented on the TV show: “Blackish”which is “Blacketty, black, black” 90 % of the air time.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3487356/

  7. @Wilkey
    The multiculturalists and the folks at MANAA don't seem to much care when things go in reverse. The original Star Wars cast was 100% white. The movies which followed have been, well, considerably more diverse, and it appears that whites will constitute, at best, a plurality of the cast members in the coming films.

    James Earl Jones?

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    Black guy's voice, but the character was white.
  8. You couldn’t miss the message. The helpless white male is saved by the white female captain, the black male NASA mission director, the black male genius astrodynamicist, and the non-white space agency (China with the Chinese woman heading rather than the far superior Russian space program).

    • Replies: @Alfa158
    That is an interesting point about the comparative inactivity in the Chinese space program. They have all the money in the world, a huge population of technoids, and an industrial espionage system that is virtually a direct pipeline to most of the world's advanced technology, yet you don't hear any more about their land a man on the moon by 2020, or other advanced space programs.
    I have to think it is because at the moment you can't make any money on space exploration, and it doesn't have any real military value, so what is the point. Perhaps starry eyed idealism is not a big value in the Middle Kingdom.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Anonymous, a little like "Hunt for Red October", with the Black Admiral and the oh so smart sonar technician, Jonesy, who is way smarter than anyone else in the US Navy. But, may I ask how did Annie become black in the new release of the musical "Annie." I remember her as a saucer-eyed ginger .
    , @Salty
    True. The astrodynamicist was the only real hack actor in the entire movie. And they pretended like the concept of a grav slingshot was just brain scramblingly revolutionary.

    I did like the Navy pilot having to suit up to rescue the poor air force fellow though.

    , @anon

    You couldn’t miss the message. The helpless white male...
     
    I think I must have seen a completely different movie.

    I thought it was good - kinda disappointed the Robinson Crusoe section with him building all kinds of stuff out of bits of old rocket wasn't longer but overall good.

    Also think they missed a trick not having a scene where they go into a dank basement to talk to their "math guys" and introduce them as "this is Wang, Wang, Wang and Weiner".
    , @Erik Sieven
    the NASA / whatever director just has to be black. Same in Pacific Rim and Prometheus. And asian roles have to be female. It is always the same.
  9. @Wilkey
    The multiculturalists and the folks at MANAA don't seem to much care when things go in reverse. The original Star Wars cast was 100% white. The movies which followed have been, well, considerably more diverse, and it appears that whites will constitute, at best, a plurality of the cast members in the coming films.

    “and it appears that whites will constitute, at best, a plurality of the cast members in the coming films.”

    And, it must be said, the same in the cast of the coming nations…

    • Replies: @anon
    You know none of them are going to put up with black people, right?
  10. @Cattle Guard
    For the awesomest case of replacing a character with one of a different race in sci-fi, see "The Wrath Of Farrakhan" from "In Living Color".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV9aRuGbmW4

    Damon Wayans was a great Farrakhan. I haven't seen "The Wrath Of Khan" but I'm sure it couldn't possibly have been this good.

    I haven’t seen “The Wrath Of Khan” but I’m sure it couldn’t possibly have been this good.

    Oh, it sure could possibly have been that good:

  11. They could have replaced Matt Damon and it would be fine by me.

  12. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:
    @Clyde
    The Martian has Chiwetel Ejiofor to bring more black viewers to see it. But wouldn't more Asians on the screen bring Asians to see it? In America and worldwide? Where are the Hispanic actors in this movie? Does Hollywood only score SJW pokemon points for dropping in black actors?
    I did see Michael Mann's BlackHat and it had a repulsive 50-something black actress in it.

    “The Martian has Chiwetel Ejiofor to bring more black viewers to see it. But wouldn’t more Asians on the screen bring Asians to see it?”

    The thing is domestic box office is most important and whites prefer to see blacks than Asians.

    Also it makes whites feel better morally to favor blacks over other racial/ethnic groups. Most of ‘white guilt’ cult has been invested with blacks.

    • Replies: @AnAnon
    Asians can get good life outcomes on their own, so why feel guilty about them? likewise hispanics came here for a better life as we're so often reminded, so again, no cause for guilt there. That said, status is fickle, so eventually guilt over blacks goes away, WWG/T being the primary example of that.
    , @Jefferson
    "Also it makes whites feel better morally to favor blacks over other racial/ethnic groups. Most of ‘white guilt’ cult has been invested with blacks."

    It's hard for Asians to guilt trip White people because Asians did not come to America in slave ships and Asians do not have their own version of Emmit Till in American history to rub it in White people's faces.

    That is why White people are a lot less afraid to racially offend Asians than they are to racially offend Blacks. The racist stuff that Sarah Silverman has said about Asians, she would never in a million years say about Blacks.

    , @anon

    The thing is domestic box office is most important and whites prefer to see blacks than Asians.
     
    I don't think it's about white people preferring to see them; it's the film makers preferring to cast them for PC reasons.
  13. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    A lot of blackwashing in movies.

    Shawshank Redemption.

    • Replies: @EriK
    Besides Red, were there any other blacks at the prison in rural Maine in the 40's/50's?
  14. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Bringing “The Martian” together with the cheap farming labor thing – the problem with farming is its productivity level (and thus wages) has fallen dramatically below industry levels.

    This problem *can not* be fixed by cheap labor – cos arithmetic – all cheap labor does is reduce national prosperity over time.

    The solution is space age farming like aeroponics which NASA has been pioneering for a long time.

  15. So is the author of the article saying Chiwetel Ejiofor is white cos he talks nice?

    Troubling.

    • Replies: @BurplesonAFB
    The word is Problematic.

    Anyway, I was pretty surprised to find that they gave the role of Mindy Park to the whitest girl ever and didn't change the character's name. How many white Parks do you know?

    Also I thought they'd cast some handsome but unknown Bollywood guy as Venkat. You'd think that'd contribute tens of millions of dollars more from theaters in India and from overseas Indians (the Pacific Rim strategy). But then you'd only have one genius scientist black character instead of two, and besides, as we learned in silicon valley, Indians aren't officially Diverse.
  16. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    Street crime is often whitewashed even though many urban thugs are black.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Street crime is often whitewashed even though many urban thugs are black."

    You should watch a gangster film called Judgment Night starring Denis Leary. It takes place in 93 percent Black South Side Of Chicago, yet none of the thugs in the film are Black. The thugs in the South Side are all Irish guys and the law abiding citizens of the South Side are all Black.

    Hollywood is so PC and scared to offend Blacks that even criminal activity in the South Side of Chicago is Whitewashed. I mean seriously in real life who the hell has ever been mugged at gunpoint by an Irish guy in 93 percent Black South Side Of Chicago?

    When the Italian Jim Croce made the song about Bad Lee Roy Brown from the South Side Of Chicago I don't think he was talking about a pasty pink skin Irishman. He was talking about someone who looks like they could be Hussein Obama's son.

  17. For my second career, I’ll direct a multicultural Star Trek movie inspired by my experiences in the software industry.

    Scotty’s engineering staff will consist of rotating clueless teams from Tata consulting. “But your resume said you have a degree in transporter technology!” “Yes, I transported dung on my back.”

    In the midst of a pitched battle, Kirk will have hillarious misunderstandings with incomprehensible Chinese staff on the bridge.

    • Replies: @Vendetta
    "Suh, suh-suh-suh-C battery?"

    "D MOTHA FUCKA, D!"
  18. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The actual Asians in the movie were portrayed by nerdy-looking and acting types. It must be safe to stereotype them as such. The supposed half-Hindu character sure didn’t look it. All this PC casting makes some of these movies unwatchable. It’s gotten to the point where it’s downright insulting to be a part of it. The blacks and others on the screen are awesome geniuses and you the viewers are just stupid people who nod your bubble-heads and assumedly find it all to be credible.

  19. “Guy Aoki also called for a boycott of the 2010 film Avatar: The Last Airbender ”

    If he was calling for a boycott because it was a garbage movie that pissed on the excellent cartoon source material, I’d be behind that.

  20. @International Jew
    For my second career, I'll direct a multicultural Star Trek movie inspired by my experiences in the software industry.

    Scotty's engineering staff will consist of rotating clueless teams from Tata consulting. "But your resume said you have a degree in transporter technology!" "Yes, I transported dung on my back."

    In the midst of a pitched battle, Kirk will have hillarious misunderstandings with incomprehensible Chinese staff on the bridge.

    “Suh, suh-suh-suh-C battery?”

    “D MOTHA FUCKA, D!”

  21. They should have had the man give birth to the baby at the end since one of the main ideas of the film is that we are all interchangeable.

    For a reality check watch the video of the landing of Curiosity on Mars. Act 1 is a bunch of bureaucrats and is filled with diversity and talk. Act 2 is mission control filled with a bunch of boring white guys and a few asians doing something amazing.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    The mission control guys - not to knock them - are drone operators. They don't build the landers, they just drive them. If you saw the crew of people who designed and built the lander, they would probably look even whiter than the mission control guys.
  22. @Scott66
    They should have had the man give birth to the baby at the end since one of the main ideas of the film is that we are all interchangeable.

    For a reality check watch the video of the landing of Curiosity on Mars. Act 1 is a bunch of bureaucrats and is filled with diversity and talk. Act 2 is mission control filled with a bunch of boring white guys and a few asians doing something amazing.

    The mission control guys – not to knock them – are drone operators. They don’t build the landers, they just drive them. If you saw the crew of people who designed and built the lander, they would probably look even whiter than the mission control guys.

  23. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:
    @Sleep
    Guy Aoki also called for a boycott of the 2010 film Avatar: The Last Airbender for the same reason: he wanted an all-Asian cast but the director, M. Night Shyamalan, chose a more diverse multicultural cast.

    GUY Aoki

    Looks like he whitewashed his name.

  24. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    Look who is whitewashing.

  25. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The writer of the book, Andy Weir, did the first whitewashing by using the Chinese space agency as the one coming to NASA’s rescue. I merely passed it off as a typical Jewish guy with a Chinese fetish. Even though the Russians are a half-century ahead of China, they are white and can’t be seen as the good guys. China has sent 10 people into space. China’s first was in 2003. Russia first did it in 1961. China has sent only 10 people into space in its entire history. Russia has sent about that many this year alone.

    • Replies: @Half Canadian
    To be fair, Russia was only first in space because they weren't as concerned about bringing back their cosmonauts alive.
  26. @Anonymous
    You couldn't miss the message. The helpless white male is saved by the white female captain, the black male NASA mission director, the black male genius astrodynamicist, and the non-white space agency (China with the Chinese woman heading rather than the far superior Russian space program).

    That is an interesting point about the comparative inactivity in the Chinese space program. They have all the money in the world, a huge population of technoids, and an industrial espionage system that is virtually a direct pipeline to most of the world’s advanced technology, yet you don’t hear any more about their land a man on the moon by 2020, or other advanced space programs.
    I have to think it is because at the moment you can’t make any money on space exploration, and it doesn’t have any real military value, so what is the point. Perhaps starry eyed idealism is not a big value in the Middle Kingdom.

  27. The Whitewashing of The Martian is addressed in this review, which also goes into the science-y science of the movie.

  28. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    In re: the implausible ethnic diversity on display:

    I hereby introduce the SI unit of casting implausibility, the Sailer, defined as the odds against the ethnicity and/or gender of a particular casting choice reflecting the real world.

    For instance, astrodynamicist Rich Purnell is played by Donald Glover. I enjoyed his performance, but come on. As Steve pointed out, the prior probability of a given talented physics student (let alone a genius) being black is 1/0.8% = 125:1. So this casting choice exposes audiences to 125S of implausibility. Casting a white woman instead of a white man in such a role generates 5.1S, and so on.

    Implausibility is of course cumulative, so the entire movie, with two black uber-geeks (Purnell and mission director Vincent Kapoor) as well as a Mexican space pilot and two female astronauts, one the commander, delivers a near-debilitating dose of implausibility.

    SWPH

    • Replies: @Ivy
    Use of the new Sailer unit of measurement reminds me of a historic one.
    Helen of Troy was memorialized as the Face that Launched a Thousand Ships.
    Having a face that would launch one ship would equate to one milli-Helen.
    A notable Helen from filmdom was Diane Kruger.
    Who are candidates to cause launching a thousand space ships?
  29. @Priss Factor
    "The Martian has Chiwetel Ejiofor to bring more black viewers to see it. But wouldn’t more Asians on the screen bring Asians to see it?"

    The thing is domestic box office is most important and whites prefer to see blacks than Asians.

    Also it makes whites feel better morally to favor blacks over other racial/ethnic groups. Most of 'white guilt' cult has been invested with blacks.

    Asians can get good life outcomes on their own, so why feel guilty about them? likewise hispanics came here for a better life as we’re so often reminded, so again, no cause for guilt there. That said, status is fickle, so eventually guilt over blacks goes away, WWG/T being the primary example of that.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    If Asians had any sense --- if any group had any sense --- , they would say 'the hell with most pop culture' and try to make or be a part of more personal stuff like SLOW WEST.

    This goes for the American Right too.

    Too many on the American Right keep asking, 'oh gee, why doesn't Hollywood make the kind of movies that make our side look good?'

    Why not make your own industry? Why not do it yourself? If a bunch of Jews could build something out of nothing, why can't Conservatives?
    Also, try to make something better than the usual junk that comes out of Hollywood.

    But there is the assumption on all groups in America that only Hollywood can do it.
    Blacks should make their own movies in their own industry. A Movietown like Motown.
    And Conservatives should make their own movie industry.

    But they all just leave it up to Jewish-homo hollywood and then get upset if Hollywood doesn't make what they want.
  30. Lol, there is no pleasing these freaks. I watched this movie a week ago, and it was 100% politically correct, multi-kulti, and diverse. Which in this case worked out all right, because the theme of space colonization goes very well with the theme of “we’re all in this together.”

    Good film, one of Ridley Scott’s better efforts. Has a jolly attitude, too. Reminiscent of Gravity.

  31. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    Though the Narrative focuses on Jews excluded from Wasp country clubs and white shoe law firms, the constant theme in Hollywood was Jewish execs, suits, producers, and moneymen at odds with unruly goy actors, writers, and directors.
    Jews were the insider-power-men of Hollywood.

    Orson Welles the goy had problems with Hollywood.
    Elia Kazan the goy had problems with Hollywood.
    Marlon Brando the goy had problems with Hollywood.
    Sam Peckinpah the goy had problems with Hollywood.
    Robert Altman the goy had problems with Hollywood.
    Mel Gibson the goy had problems with Hollywood.
    Spike Lee the bloy(black goy) had problems with Hollywood.

    Generally, the theme is maverick goy vs big shot Jewish exec or producer.

    There were Jewish mavericks too who ran into trouble, such as William Friedkin, but it appears Jewish actors and directors generally had a better rapport with Hollywood than gentile actors and directors did.

    Granted, the problems often lay with goy talents who were out-of-control, but it was the Jewish guys(and later gals) who held the ultimate power.

    • Replies: @Zach
    A conspiracy theorist might point out that Woody Allen has a very long career making films that are not all that profitable because he is....
  32. I really wish someone would help Mr Scott get back into his bath chair and wheel him off to the Old Director’s Home where he can spend his remaining days churning out more stupidities.

  33. @Clyde
    The Martian has Chiwetel Ejiofor to bring more black viewers to see it. But wouldn't more Asians on the screen bring Asians to see it? In America and worldwide? Where are the Hispanic actors in this movie? Does Hollywood only score SJW pokemon points for dropping in black actors?
    I did see Michael Mann's BlackHat and it had a repulsive 50-something black actress in it.

    “Where are the Hispanic actors in this movie?”

    Michael Pena is Hispanic. But since he is so White looking looking, I can see why you just assumed he was a Gringo just like Jeff Daniels and Matt Damon.

  34. The only human beings ever to visit another celestial body were all white men.

    As far as this topic goes, nothing else matters.

    The way things are going, nobody, of any race, will ever visit another planet again. So, Hollywood fantasies don’t matter. European Americans are the only people to ever set foot on another world, and they always will be.

    We win. Game over.
    http://www.news.com.au/world/men-who-walked-the-moon-from-1969-to-1972/story-fndir2ev-1226458216146

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "The only human beings ever to visit another celestial body were all white men.

    As far as this topic goes, nothing else matters.

    The way things are going, nobody, of any race, will ever visit another planet again. So, Hollywood fantasies don’t matter. European Americans are the only people to ever set foot on another world, and they always will be.

    We win. Game over."

    Ta-Nehisi Coates and his son are going to be the first Black bodies to step foot on Mars, LOL. Once they are there they will bump into a racist UFO Alien who will tell his Black son to get out of the way and this will racially scar Ta-Nehisi Coates for life. He will write a new book about racist Mars Alien privilege who invade the spaces of Black bodies.

  35. @Priss Factor
    Street crime is often whitewashed even though many urban thugs are black.

    “Street crime is often whitewashed even though many urban thugs are black.”

    You should watch a gangster film called Judgment Night starring Denis Leary. It takes place in 93 percent Black South Side Of Chicago, yet none of the thugs in the film are Black. The thugs in the South Side are all Irish guys and the law abiding citizens of the South Side are all Black.

    Hollywood is so PC and scared to offend Blacks that even criminal activity in the South Side of Chicago is Whitewashed. I mean seriously in real life who the hell has ever been mugged at gunpoint by an Irish guy in 93 percent Black South Side Of Chicago?

    When the Italian Jim Croce made the song about Bad Lee Roy Brown from the South Side Of Chicago I don’t think he was talking about a pasty pink skin Irishman. He was talking about someone who looks like they could be Hussein Obama’s son.

  36. Gaah this is Hollywood, they PC/MC everything!!!!

    Look at Thor with his PC gang which included a Black Heimdall, the requisite Asian ninja dude, a Hispanic female type. Nick Fury is a black man, etc.

    Interstellar was the same way and the physics were right out of a comic book.

    The new Star Wars will be equally PC/MC to death.

    If you saw “Dolphin’s Tale” which was based on a real life story. Hollywood replaced the white doctor at the VA who built the Dolphin’s prosthetics with you know who Morgan Freeman aka: Magical Black Man.

    From the looks of it they are really trying hard to make Blacks look smart by having science roles done by blacks.

  37. @Priss Factor
    "The Martian has Chiwetel Ejiofor to bring more black viewers to see it. But wouldn’t more Asians on the screen bring Asians to see it?"

    The thing is domestic box office is most important and whites prefer to see blacks than Asians.

    Also it makes whites feel better morally to favor blacks over other racial/ethnic groups. Most of 'white guilt' cult has been invested with blacks.

    “Also it makes whites feel better morally to favor blacks over other racial/ethnic groups. Most of ‘white guilt’ cult has been invested with blacks.”

    It’s hard for Asians to guilt trip White people because Asians did not come to America in slave ships and Asians do not have their own version of Emmit Till in American history to rub it in White people’s faces.

    That is why White people are a lot less afraid to racially offend Asians than they are to racially offend Blacks. The racist stuff that Sarah Silverman has said about Asians, she would never in a million years say about Blacks.

  38. @Buzz Mohawk
    The only human beings ever to visit another celestial body were all white men.

    As far as this topic goes, nothing else matters.

    The way things are going, nobody, of any race, will ever visit another planet again. So, Hollywood fantasies don't matter. European Americans are the only people to ever set foot on another world, and they always will be.

    We win. Game over.
    http://www.news.com.au/world/men-who-walked-the-moon-from-1969-to-1972/story-fndir2ev-1226458216146

    “The only human beings ever to visit another celestial body were all white men.

    As far as this topic goes, nothing else matters.

    The way things are going, nobody, of any race, will ever visit another planet again. So, Hollywood fantasies don’t matter. European Americans are the only people to ever set foot on another world, and they always will be.

    We win. Game over.”

    Ta-Nehisi Coates and his son are going to be the first Black bodies to step foot on Mars, LOL. Once they are there they will bump into a racist UFO Alien who will tell his Black son to get out of the way and this will racially scar Ta-Nehisi Coates for life. He will write a new book about racist Mars Alien privilege who invade the spaces of Black bodies.

  39. @anon
    So is the author of the article saying Chiwetel Ejiofor is white cos he talks nice?

    Troubling.

    The word is Problematic.

    Anyway, I was pretty surprised to find that they gave the role of Mindy Park to the whitest girl ever and didn’t change the character’s name. How many white Parks do you know?

    Also I thought they’d cast some handsome but unknown Bollywood guy as Venkat. You’d think that’d contribute tens of millions of dollars more from theaters in India and from overseas Indians (the Pacific Rim strategy). But then you’d only have one genius scientist black character instead of two, and besides, as we learned in silicon valley, Indians aren’t officially Diverse.

    • Replies: @Honorary Thief
    Blacks, gays and Jews are officially diverse. Everyone else is miscellaneous.
  40. Casting in this movie was done to segregate and highlight China specifically, not just “Asia”. By presenting the United States as a stumbling has-been that was saved by the humble giant, China, the investors behind this movie pander to the new China, with its vast new middle class with money, which we created, thanks to our choice to move production facilities over there.

    Speaking as someone who watched the moon landing as a teenager, this movie is a real slap in the face. All the more so because it shows the truth. Which we helped to create.

  41. @Anonymous
    You couldn't miss the message. The helpless white male is saved by the white female captain, the black male NASA mission director, the black male genius astrodynamicist, and the non-white space agency (China with the Chinese woman heading rather than the far superior Russian space program).

    Anonymous, a little like “Hunt for Red October”, with the Black Admiral and the oh so smart sonar technician, Jonesy, who is way smarter than anyone else in the US Navy. But, may I ask how did Annie become black in the new release of the musical “Annie.” I remember her as a saucer-eyed ginger .

  42. My, that Ridley Scott looks quite gay, doesn’t he?

  43. @Clyde
    The Martian has Chiwetel Ejiofor to bring more black viewers to see it. But wouldn't more Asians on the screen bring Asians to see it? In America and worldwide? Where are the Hispanic actors in this movie? Does Hollywood only score SJW pokemon points for dropping in black actors?
    I did see Michael Mann's BlackHat and it had a repulsive 50-something black actress in it.

    There was a pretty nauseating scene where the benevolent Chinese government (you know, those guys whose anti satellite missile test left millions of cubic kilometers of space littered with debris) bails out JPL.

  44. @Anonymous
    You couldn't miss the message. The helpless white male is saved by the white female captain, the black male NASA mission director, the black male genius astrodynamicist, and the non-white space agency (China with the Chinese woman heading rather than the far superior Russian space program).

    True. The astrodynamicist was the only real hack actor in the entire movie. And they pretended like the concept of a grav slingshot was just brain scramblingly revolutionary.

    I did like the Navy pilot having to suit up to rescue the poor air force fellow though.

  45. @snorlax
    James Earl Jones?

    Black guy’s voice, but the character was white.

    • Replies: @anon
    Black astrophysicists, if there were any would not speak in Ebonics, or behave like you think blacks should.
  46. @Anonymous
    In re: the implausible ethnic diversity on display:

    I hereby introduce the SI unit of casting implausibility, the Sailer, defined as the odds against the ethnicity and/or gender of a particular casting choice reflecting the real world.

    For instance, astrodynamicist Rich Purnell is played by Donald Glover. I enjoyed his performance, but come on. As Steve pointed out, the prior probability of a given talented physics student (let alone a genius) being black is 1/0.8% = 125:1. So this casting choice exposes audiences to 125S of implausibility. Casting a white woman instead of a white man in such a role generates 5.1S, and so on.

    Implausibility is of course cumulative, so the entire movie, with two black uber-geeks (Purnell and mission director Vincent Kapoor) as well as a Mexican space pilot and two female astronauts, one the commander, delivers a near-debilitating dose of implausibility.

    SWPH

    Use of the new Sailer unit of measurement reminds me of a historic one.
    Helen of Troy was memorialized as the Face that Launched a Thousand Ships.
    Having a face that would launch one ship would equate to one milli-Helen.
    A notable Helen from filmdom was Diane Kruger.
    Who are candidates to cause launching a thousand space ships?

    • Replies: @NOTA
    Mindy Park more or less manages to cause two space launches in the book just by being observant. Though someone would have noticed Watney being alive sooner or later.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    Who are candidates to cause launching a thousand space ships?

     

    Merkel. People would want to leave Earth to not have to see her mug again.
  47. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:
    @AnAnon
    Asians can get good life outcomes on their own, so why feel guilty about them? likewise hispanics came here for a better life as we're so often reminded, so again, no cause for guilt there. That said, status is fickle, so eventually guilt over blacks goes away, WWG/T being the primary example of that.

    If Asians had any sense — if any group had any sense — , they would say ‘the hell with most pop culture’ and try to make or be a part of more personal stuff like SLOW WEST.

    This goes for the American Right too.

    Too many on the American Right keep asking, ‘oh gee, why doesn’t Hollywood make the kind of movies that make our side look good?’

    Why not make your own industry? Why not do it yourself? If a bunch of Jews could build something out of nothing, why can’t Conservatives?
    Also, try to make something better than the usual junk that comes out of Hollywood.

    But there is the assumption on all groups in America that only Hollywood can do it.
    Blacks should make their own movies in their own industry. A Movietown like Motown.
    And Conservatives should make their own movie industry.

    But they all just leave it up to Jewish-homo hollywood and then get upset if Hollywood doesn’t make what they want.

  48. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    An interesting question would be “How would Blade Runner be received?” if made today?

    Would Mexicans complain ‘not enough Mexers in LA’?

    Would blacks complain ‘not enough Negroes’?

    Would Asians complain ‘too many Asians in Nibelungish mode’?

    Would feminists complain ‘too much violence against womenfolk’?

    Scott also made BLACK RAIN, which is pretty decent cop thriller.
    I don’t recall it caused much of a controversy in the 80s.

    But there was some controversy about YEAR OF THE DRAGON, which is a pretty decent gangster movie.

  49. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_(2007_film)

    Maybe this explains it.

    I thought Sunshine was superior Sci-fi though it had problems.

    Of the crew, I think four were Asian. Three east asian and one hindu.

    And it was a bomb.

    Of course, it could have bombed for other reasons. Too weird, too cerebral for sci-fi.

    But Hollywood takes no chances with big budget movies.

  50. @Ivy
    Use of the new Sailer unit of measurement reminds me of a historic one.
    Helen of Troy was memorialized as the Face that Launched a Thousand Ships.
    Having a face that would launch one ship would equate to one milli-Helen.
    A notable Helen from filmdom was Diane Kruger.
    Who are candidates to cause launching a thousand space ships?

    Mindy Park more or less manages to cause two space launches in the book just by being observant. Though someone would have noticed Watney being alive sooner or later.

  51. Another battle of fringes. Of course the offended Asians don’t understand the USA victim scale, Black trumps Asian, in a deck of cards Blacks are Kings, Asians are Jacks.

    Personally I loved the casting of Black, Donald Glover, in the role of the severely introverted orbital mechanics genius, Rich Purnell, what are the odds?

  52. @Anonymous
    The writer of the book, Andy Weir, did the first whitewashing by using the Chinese space agency as the one coming to NASA's rescue. I merely passed it off as a typical Jewish guy with a Chinese fetish. Even though the Russians are a half-century ahead of China, they are white and can't be seen as the good guys. China has sent 10 people into space. China's first was in 2003. Russia first did it in 1961. China has sent only 10 people into space in its entire history. Russia has sent about that many this year alone.

    To be fair, Russia was only first in space because they weren’t as concerned about bringing back their cosmonauts alive.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    In addition to that, the Eisenhower administration held back American satellite programs, thinking that launching something that would orbit over the USSR might be seen as an aggressive act. (A by now familiar western habit of worrying too much about what others think.) Characteristically, the Russians didn't give a f**k what anybody thought, so they went ahead and lobbed a beach ball over everyone's heads in October 1957.

    If not for Ike's geopolitical caution, there would have been (admittedly with the help of von Braun's German team) a satellite launched from the United States many months, perhaps even a year or two, before Sputnik (which itself was made possible by Germans unlucky enough to end up in the East instead of the West).

    After Sputnik, president Eisenhower apparently stopped caring what the Soviets thought about things flying over their heads, as evidenced by the Lockheed U-2 and pilot Gary Powers, both featured in the new Tom Hanks movie.

    As for putting a man in orbit, that was a stunt from the beginning, one Khrushchev was happy to perform (and yes, possibly at the cost of one or two cosmonauts burning up before Gagarin's not-quite-an-orbit). It was like launching a clown from a cannon at a circus: it impressed people but served no purpose. The Soviet's large missiles which made it possible were necessitated by overly heavy, crude nuclear bombs -- which themselves had to make bigger explosions because their guidance and inaccuracy was so laughable. American rockets were smaller because American nuclear weapons were already miniaturized and targeting was precise.

    America was never behind the Soviet Union in technical capabilities, not at all. (It still isn't. Our cruise missiles don't fall on the wrong country on the way to their destinations.)

    To this day, Russians have not gone beyond Low Earth Orbit, like the clown shooting from the cannon. They and the Europeans have, though, made important contributions to unmanned space exploration, which is more important.

    There really has not been any compelling reason to put people in space, except for mountain climber George Mallory's "because it's there." Still, one agrees with Neil Armstrong, who said of going to the Moon, "Even if we went for the wrong reasons, I'm glad we did it." (They did it to show who's boss.)

    It would take a technological leap comparable to the Industrial Revolution to make manned space travel and planetary colonization of any practical use. Until then, such things are just extremely expensive luxuries that take funding away from real, unmanned space exploration (which continues to be led by Americans at places like JPL in Pasadena).

    Anything China has done in space is irrelevant, BTW, and has been funded entirely by foolish American trade practices.

    The more I read here about this movie, The Martian, the more annoying the PC elements sound. Still, I plan to see it this weekend. The other aspects sound commendable! I'm used to ignoring Hollywood static so I can see something entertaining for a couple of overpriced hours.
  53. @BurplesonAFB
    The word is Problematic.

    Anyway, I was pretty surprised to find that they gave the role of Mindy Park to the whitest girl ever and didn't change the character's name. How many white Parks do you know?

    Also I thought they'd cast some handsome but unknown Bollywood guy as Venkat. You'd think that'd contribute tens of millions of dollars more from theaters in India and from overseas Indians (the Pacific Rim strategy). But then you'd only have one genius scientist black character instead of two, and besides, as we learned in silicon valley, Indians aren't officially Diverse.

    Blacks, gays and Jews are officially diverse. Everyone else is miscellaneous.

  54. I predict more “historical” shows and movies, which is a great excuse for directors and writers to work with an all white staff.

    See:

    Vikings
    Sopranos
    Mad Men
    Pirates of the Caribbean
    All the movies based on Jane Austen novels
    Game of Thrones

    This is white supremacist but it goes on under the radar.

    • Replies: @CJ
    I predict more “historical” shows and movies, which is a great excuse for directors and writers to work with an all white staff.

    Yes, that's been going on for a while. An historical parallel would be the way Shakespeare set his plays in Italy, on imaginary islands, in the far past et cetera in order to avoid trouble with the reigning monarch and associated temporal authorities. Conversely, his rival Ben Jonson wrote plays set in contemporary London and consequently got into trouble with those authorities.

    Another parallel would be the practice of setting poems, novels or plays in the ancient world of Greece and Rome before Christ in order to avoid trouble with Christian doctrine.
  55. @Truth
    "and it appears that whites will constitute, at best, a plurality of the cast members in the coming films."

    And, it must be said, the same in the cast of the coming nations...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVY1-v97Mic

    You know none of them are going to put up with black people, right?

  56. @Priss Factor
    "The Martian has Chiwetel Ejiofor to bring more black viewers to see it. But wouldn’t more Asians on the screen bring Asians to see it?"

    The thing is domestic box office is most important and whites prefer to see blacks than Asians.

    Also it makes whites feel better morally to favor blacks over other racial/ethnic groups. Most of 'white guilt' cult has been invested with blacks.

    The thing is domestic box office is most important and whites prefer to see blacks than Asians.

    I don’t think it’s about white people preferring to see them; it’s the film makers preferring to cast them for PC reasons.

  57. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    You couldn't miss the message. The helpless white male is saved by the white female captain, the black male NASA mission director, the black male genius astrodynamicist, and the non-white space agency (China with the Chinese woman heading rather than the far superior Russian space program).

    You couldn’t miss the message. The helpless white male…

    I think I must have seen a completely different movie.

    I thought it was good – kinda disappointed the Robinson Crusoe section with him building all kinds of stuff out of bits of old rocket wasn’t longer but overall good.

    Also think they missed a trick not having a scene where they go into a dank basement to talk to their “math guys” and introduce them as “this is Wang, Wang, Wang and Weiner”.

    • Replies: @anon
    Replying to self, I'm not saying Hollywood isn't as anti-white as they can get away with and still make money, of course that is true

    but

    currently that means if they want to make a successful block buster they still need at least one positive lead role from the current majority population - so the Damon character was pretty cool imo.
  58. @Half Canadian
    To be fair, Russia was only first in space because they weren't as concerned about bringing back their cosmonauts alive.

    In addition to that, the Eisenhower administration held back American satellite programs, thinking that launching something that would orbit over the USSR might be seen as an aggressive act. (A by now familiar western habit of worrying too much about what others think.) Characteristically, the Russians didn’t give a f**k what anybody thought, so they went ahead and lobbed a beach ball over everyone’s heads in October 1957.

    If not for Ike’s geopolitical caution, there would have been (admittedly with the help of von Braun’s German team) a satellite launched from the United States many months, perhaps even a year or two, before Sputnik (which itself was made possible by Germans unlucky enough to end up in the East instead of the West).

    After Sputnik, president Eisenhower apparently stopped caring what the Soviets thought about things flying over their heads, as evidenced by the Lockheed U-2 and pilot Gary Powers, both featured in the new Tom Hanks movie.

    As for putting a man in orbit, that was a stunt from the beginning, one Khrushchev was happy to perform (and yes, possibly at the cost of one or two cosmonauts burning up before Gagarin’s not-quite-an-orbit). It was like launching a clown from a cannon at a circus: it impressed people but served no purpose. The Soviet’s large missiles which made it possible were necessitated by overly heavy, crude nuclear bombs — which themselves had to make bigger explosions because their guidance and inaccuracy was so laughable. American rockets were smaller because American nuclear weapons were already miniaturized and targeting was precise.

    America was never behind the Soviet Union in technical capabilities, not at all. (It still isn’t. Our cruise missiles don’t fall on the wrong country on the way to their destinations.)

    To this day, Russians have not gone beyond Low Earth Orbit, like the clown shooting from the cannon. They and the Europeans have, though, made important contributions to unmanned space exploration, which is more important.

    There really has not been any compelling reason to put people in space, except for mountain climber George Mallory’s “because it’s there.” Still, one agrees with Neil Armstrong, who said of going to the Moon, “Even if we went for the wrong reasons, I’m glad we did it.” (They did it to show who’s boss.)

    It would take a technological leap comparable to the Industrial Revolution to make manned space travel and planetary colonization of any practical use. Until then, such things are just extremely expensive luxuries that take funding away from real, unmanned space exploration (which continues to be led by Americans at places like JPL in Pasadena).

    Anything China has done in space is irrelevant, BTW, and has been funded entirely by foolish American trade practices.

    The more I read here about this movie, The Martian, the more annoying the PC elements sound. Still, I plan to see it this weekend. The other aspects sound commendable! I’m used to ignoring Hollywood static so I can see something entertaining for a couple of overpriced hours.

    • Replies: @Salty
    The SABRE engine has a high tech readiness level and will reduce the cost of taking a payload to LEO by a factor of 20-100. So it is closer than you think.

    And manned exploration was critical in the 1970s when robotics were garbage compared to today. No 1970s robot could have conducted a geological exploration of the moon as thoroughly as Harrison Schmidt did on apollo 17.
    , @Anonymous
    Americans consider the US to have been "ahead" in "most fields" of the "technology base" but of course those "areas" so classified are all the direct consequence of just one narrow area that the USA was ahead in - i.e., mass produced microelectronics and so increased transistor density - this (and not the design of other aspects of machines, or materials fabricated) is exactly what directly leads to the higher clockspeed of computers, signal processing capabilities, avionics, and stuff like adaptive optics (microcomputers are also directly applied in NC machine tools in industry). The Soviets made up for this one area by a much broader spectrum of high technology.

    These meaningful areas of "high technology" all reduce to:

    * the design and assembly of a complicated system (like computer architectures, mechatronic systems, software, automatic control systems)

    * the capacity of "precision" machining of high-end devices (e.g. ball bearings in inertial guidance systems, in both ICBMs and aircraft) which depends, in turn, on increased metrological measurement techniques (sometimes, the very large size of something requires new tooling techniques - e.g. the F-1 engine on the Saturn V rocket was scaled up, so they had to design this contraption to smooth out edges of the welding - these are relatively very simple however and so they fall under "systems engineering")

    * the capacity to fabricate all kinds of very "high-tech" materials and components, which ultimate reduce to controlling or "stabilizing" some phenomena (like impurities in silicon), this also covers the surface engineering, tribological and materials science knowledge for producing titanium, composite materials, optical components and engineering of thin films ("surface engineering" is why mechanical components in, e.g., your car last longer - these improvements also used in robotic space probes)

    The Soviets were far, far (decades) ahead, in the sense of making more fundamental advances in much more high technology "areas" that have little mutual relation to a common device, and these capabilities alone utterly dwarf what American technology and industry is capable of even now (or will be in the far future). In terms of the design of complicated systems for which it is actually a "problem" to design (the first category above), they were actually infinitely ahead, e.g. Soviet mainframe and on-board computers for purposes of fire control and flight navigation (like the neural net computer on the spaceship "Buran") used so many fantastically ingenious algorithms to make up for the one lag in transistor density used, that it was incredible. Often systems were designed with the goal of maximizing reliability with unreliable components (this was a problem of inherent interest, studed by von Neumann in the USA). In aerodynamics and aerohydrodynamics, in supercomputer architectures and the design of automatic control systems... it would be futile to attempt to enumerate all of those areas.

    And not only were they able to fabricate and produce prototypes in the scale of the laboratory or machine shop (with manual soldering, welding, tooling and special machining for "precision" components - btw this is how equipment in the space program is produced as well as other machines that have short production runs), but they could produce it via fully automated robotic production plants, that achieved fantastic results in the energy conservation. A small number of Soviet production plants produced much more main battle tanks, atomic and diesel submarines, aircraft, ICBMs, strategic reserves and components, etc. than the rest of the world combined.

    BTW - even in microelectronics components, it was always acknowledged (e.g. by civilian analysts in RAND Corporation) that Soviets could always batch produce small quantities of the very best microelectronics, since their expertise (in physics, chemistry, materials science) was higher. It was just a question of perfecting the mass production of it (the particular kind of precision tooling, clean rooms, quality control practices) to such a degree of uniformity so as to mass produce it cheaply - that was something American industry perfected in the period from WWII to the Apollo program. Also, due to economic problems Soviets did not build enough production plants for microelectronics, so there was a production bottleneck on top of it. But the "technology" was in fact developed (just that actual components were in short supply).

    The CIA (that could tap into undersea cables) and American reconaissance satellites (that can intercept telemetric data) knew this, since they picked up absolutely incredible capabilities e.g. American passive sonar picked up a Soviet combat submarine that could dive to 3000 feet (due to gigantic advances in high-strenth titanium hulls and other metallurgical technologies). This is due to engineered technology (some advances of which are important enough to be called new "technologies", even), and not "systems engineering" or whatever Americans mostly did in the 60s space program. Due to advances in a gigantic range of component technologies related to photonic systems and optoelectronics, Soviet ocean reconaissance, synthetic aperture radar and all kinds of weapons platforms have remote sensing and optical tracking capabilities that are completely beyond anything the USA has in development even now (some of these components, like spatial light modulators were examined in the research laboratories - IIRC, including Lawrence Livermore - after the Soviet collapse, and an attempt to "copy" them failed).
  59. Casting in this movie was done to segregate and highlight China specifically, not just “Asia”. By presenting the United States as a stumbling has-been that was saved by the humble giant, China, the investors behind this movie pander to the new China, with its vast new middle class with money, which we created, thanks to our choice to move production facilities over there

    A Chinese woman won the 2015 Nobel Prize in medicine.Tu Youyou. The Nobel committee is relieved her birthday isn’t till December. “Happy birthday…um…”

    • Replies: @David Evans
    Bono is pissed because it went to 2Us rather than U2!
  60. cast … black actor … as characters identified as Asian

    … whitewashing has got to stop …

    Shouldn’t that be “tarring” or “sunburning” or something. Would that be racist?

  61. Guy Aoki, Founding President of the Media Action Network for Asian Americans (MANAA), said the film should be barred from receiving awards for its “racist” casting.

    Think of all the HBD’rs who say “Asian immigration isn’t as bad because they’re smart and industrious.” Well, they too will join the anti-white coalition to get a share of the spoils. They won’t identify with us.

  62. @Ivy
    Use of the new Sailer unit of measurement reminds me of a historic one.
    Helen of Troy was memorialized as the Face that Launched a Thousand Ships.
    Having a face that would launch one ship would equate to one milli-Helen.
    A notable Helen from filmdom was Diane Kruger.
    Who are candidates to cause launching a thousand space ships?

    Who are candidates to cause launching a thousand space ships?

    Merkel. People would want to leave Earth to not have to see her mug again.

  63. @jjbees
    I predict more "historical" shows and movies, which is a great excuse for directors and writers to work with an all white staff.

    See:

    Vikings
    Sopranos
    Mad Men
    Pirates of the Caribbean
    All the movies based on Jane Austen novels
    Game of Thrones

    This is white supremacist but it goes on under the radar.

    I predict more “historical” shows and movies, which is a great excuse for directors and writers to work with an all white staff.

    Yes, that’s been going on for a while. An historical parallel would be the way Shakespeare set his plays in Italy, on imaginary islands, in the far past et cetera in order to avoid trouble with the reigning monarch and associated temporal authorities. Conversely, his rival Ben Jonson wrote plays set in contemporary London and consequently got into trouble with those authorities.

    Another parallel would be the practice of setting poems, novels or plays in the ancient world of Greece and Rome before Christ in order to avoid trouble with Christian doctrine.

  64. Well I guess the ( no doubt well qualified) Asian guys are struggling to get acting roles because too many roles are going to Black males. I’ve even seen black males in UK historical dramas where there no Black characaters in the books on which the dramas are based. However, you’re unlikely to hear the media saying blacks males over-represented in movies and TV dramas.

    Say what you like about the liberal-left, but it certainly knows how to maintain discipline within its diverse political ranks

  65. @Pat Gilligan

    Casting in this movie was done to segregate and highlight China specifically, not just “Asia”. By presenting the United States as a stumbling has-been that was saved by the humble giant, China, the investors behind this movie pander to the new China, with its vast new middle class with money, which we created, thanks to our choice to move production facilities over there
     
    A Chinese woman won the 2015 Nobel Prize in medicine.Tu Youyou. The Nobel committee is relieved her birthday isn't till December. "Happy birthday...um..."

    Bono is pissed because it went to 2Us rather than U2!

  66. Chiwetelu Umeadi Ejiofor:

    Coolie adjure white. I fume!
    Me white Euro judicial foe.
    Fie! White euro malice judo.
    Um, white Euro die if cajole.
    Fie! I, um, cajoled white Euro.
    Fiji coolie hauteur mewed.
    Um, fie! Coolie adjure white.
    Coolie feud white. I rue jam!
    Coolie rue white if jam due.
    A Fiji come duel white Euro.
    Cue Fiji do white Euro male.
    A Fiji come duel white Euro.

  67. @Buzz Mohawk
    In addition to that, the Eisenhower administration held back American satellite programs, thinking that launching something that would orbit over the USSR might be seen as an aggressive act. (A by now familiar western habit of worrying too much about what others think.) Characteristically, the Russians didn't give a f**k what anybody thought, so they went ahead and lobbed a beach ball over everyone's heads in October 1957.

    If not for Ike's geopolitical caution, there would have been (admittedly with the help of von Braun's German team) a satellite launched from the United States many months, perhaps even a year or two, before Sputnik (which itself was made possible by Germans unlucky enough to end up in the East instead of the West).

    After Sputnik, president Eisenhower apparently stopped caring what the Soviets thought about things flying over their heads, as evidenced by the Lockheed U-2 and pilot Gary Powers, both featured in the new Tom Hanks movie.

    As for putting a man in orbit, that was a stunt from the beginning, one Khrushchev was happy to perform (and yes, possibly at the cost of one or two cosmonauts burning up before Gagarin's not-quite-an-orbit). It was like launching a clown from a cannon at a circus: it impressed people but served no purpose. The Soviet's large missiles which made it possible were necessitated by overly heavy, crude nuclear bombs -- which themselves had to make bigger explosions because their guidance and inaccuracy was so laughable. American rockets were smaller because American nuclear weapons were already miniaturized and targeting was precise.

    America was never behind the Soviet Union in technical capabilities, not at all. (It still isn't. Our cruise missiles don't fall on the wrong country on the way to their destinations.)

    To this day, Russians have not gone beyond Low Earth Orbit, like the clown shooting from the cannon. They and the Europeans have, though, made important contributions to unmanned space exploration, which is more important.

    There really has not been any compelling reason to put people in space, except for mountain climber George Mallory's "because it's there." Still, one agrees with Neil Armstrong, who said of going to the Moon, "Even if we went for the wrong reasons, I'm glad we did it." (They did it to show who's boss.)

    It would take a technological leap comparable to the Industrial Revolution to make manned space travel and planetary colonization of any practical use. Until then, such things are just extremely expensive luxuries that take funding away from real, unmanned space exploration (which continues to be led by Americans at places like JPL in Pasadena).

    Anything China has done in space is irrelevant, BTW, and has been funded entirely by foolish American trade practices.

    The more I read here about this movie, The Martian, the more annoying the PC elements sound. Still, I plan to see it this weekend. The other aspects sound commendable! I'm used to ignoring Hollywood static so I can see something entertaining for a couple of overpriced hours.

    The SABRE engine has a high tech readiness level and will reduce the cost of taking a payload to LEO by a factor of 20-100. So it is closer than you think.

    And manned exploration was critical in the 1970s when robotics were garbage compared to today. No 1970s robot could have conducted a geological exploration of the moon as thoroughly as Harrison Schmidt did on apollo 17.

  68. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    You couldn’t miss the message. The helpless white male...
     
    I think I must have seen a completely different movie.

    I thought it was good - kinda disappointed the Robinson Crusoe section with him building all kinds of stuff out of bits of old rocket wasn't longer but overall good.

    Also think they missed a trick not having a scene where they go into a dank basement to talk to their "math guys" and introduce them as "this is Wang, Wang, Wang and Weiner".

    Replying to self, I’m not saying Hollywood isn’t as anti-white as they can get away with and still make money, of course that is true

    but

    currently that means if they want to make a successful block buster they still need at least one positive lead role from the current majority population – so the Damon character was pretty cool imo.

  69. From “Greatest Quora Hits” series in Slate (of course): “Is Hermione Granger White”

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2015/10/09/hermione_granger_in_harry_potter_is_she_white.html

  70. @Priss Factor
    Though the Narrative focuses on Jews excluded from Wasp country clubs and white shoe law firms, the constant theme in Hollywood was Jewish execs, suits, producers, and moneymen at odds with unruly goy actors, writers, and directors.
    Jews were the insider-power-men of Hollywood.

    Orson Welles the goy had problems with Hollywood.
    Elia Kazan the goy had problems with Hollywood.
    Marlon Brando the goy had problems with Hollywood.
    Sam Peckinpah the goy had problems with Hollywood.
    Robert Altman the goy had problems with Hollywood.
    Mel Gibson the goy had problems with Hollywood.
    Spike Lee the bloy(black goy) had problems with Hollywood.

    Generally, the theme is maverick goy vs big shot Jewish exec or producer.

    There were Jewish mavericks too who ran into trouble, such as William Friedkin, but it appears Jewish actors and directors generally had a better rapport with Hollywood than gentile actors and directors did.

    Granted, the problems often lay with goy talents who were out-of-control, but it was the Jewish guys(and later gals) who held the ultimate power.

    A conspiracy theorist might point out that Woody Allen has a very long career making films that are not all that profitable because he is….

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    To be fair to Woody Alien, his films were low-budgeted so they didn't lose money and some of them made a modest profit.

    And a few were big hits. Blue Jasmine was a sure winner.

    Allen makes a really gone once a while. Jasmine really was good. So were Broadway Danny Rose, Manhattan Murder Mystery, Crimes and Misd, and some of Hannah and Sisters.
  71. @Anonymous
    You couldn't miss the message. The helpless white male is saved by the white female captain, the black male NASA mission director, the black male genius astrodynamicist, and the non-white space agency (China with the Chinese woman heading rather than the far superior Russian space program).

    the NASA / whatever director just has to be black. Same in Pacific Rim and Prometheus. And asian roles have to be female. It is always the same.

  72. @Wilkey
    Black guy's voice, but the character was white.

    Black astrophysicists, if there were any would not speak in Ebonics, or behave like you think blacks should.

  73. @Priss Factor
    A lot of blackwashing in movies.

    Shawshank Redemption.

    Besides Red, were there any other blacks at the prison in rural Maine in the 40’s/50’s?

  74. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:
    @Zach
    A conspiracy theorist might point out that Woody Allen has a very long career making films that are not all that profitable because he is....

    To be fair to Woody Alien, his films were low-budgeted so they didn’t lose money and some of them made a modest profit.

    And a few were big hits. Blue Jasmine was a sure winner.

    Allen makes a really gone once a while. Jasmine really was good. So were Broadway Danny Rose, Manhattan Murder Mystery, Crimes and Misd, and some of Hannah and Sisters.

  75. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    In addition to that, the Eisenhower administration held back American satellite programs, thinking that launching something that would orbit over the USSR might be seen as an aggressive act. (A by now familiar western habit of worrying too much about what others think.) Characteristically, the Russians didn't give a f**k what anybody thought, so they went ahead and lobbed a beach ball over everyone's heads in October 1957.

    If not for Ike's geopolitical caution, there would have been (admittedly with the help of von Braun's German team) a satellite launched from the United States many months, perhaps even a year or two, before Sputnik (which itself was made possible by Germans unlucky enough to end up in the East instead of the West).

    After Sputnik, president Eisenhower apparently stopped caring what the Soviets thought about things flying over their heads, as evidenced by the Lockheed U-2 and pilot Gary Powers, both featured in the new Tom Hanks movie.

    As for putting a man in orbit, that was a stunt from the beginning, one Khrushchev was happy to perform (and yes, possibly at the cost of one or two cosmonauts burning up before Gagarin's not-quite-an-orbit). It was like launching a clown from a cannon at a circus: it impressed people but served no purpose. The Soviet's large missiles which made it possible were necessitated by overly heavy, crude nuclear bombs -- which themselves had to make bigger explosions because their guidance and inaccuracy was so laughable. American rockets were smaller because American nuclear weapons were already miniaturized and targeting was precise.

    America was never behind the Soviet Union in technical capabilities, not at all. (It still isn't. Our cruise missiles don't fall on the wrong country on the way to their destinations.)

    To this day, Russians have not gone beyond Low Earth Orbit, like the clown shooting from the cannon. They and the Europeans have, though, made important contributions to unmanned space exploration, which is more important.

    There really has not been any compelling reason to put people in space, except for mountain climber George Mallory's "because it's there." Still, one agrees with Neil Armstrong, who said of going to the Moon, "Even if we went for the wrong reasons, I'm glad we did it." (They did it to show who's boss.)

    It would take a technological leap comparable to the Industrial Revolution to make manned space travel and planetary colonization of any practical use. Until then, such things are just extremely expensive luxuries that take funding away from real, unmanned space exploration (which continues to be led by Americans at places like JPL in Pasadena).

    Anything China has done in space is irrelevant, BTW, and has been funded entirely by foolish American trade practices.

    The more I read here about this movie, The Martian, the more annoying the PC elements sound. Still, I plan to see it this weekend. The other aspects sound commendable! I'm used to ignoring Hollywood static so I can see something entertaining for a couple of overpriced hours.

    Americans consider the US to have been “ahead” in “most fields” of the “technology base” but of course those “areas” so classified are all the direct consequence of just one narrow area that the USA was ahead in – i.e., mass produced microelectronics and so increased transistor density – this (and not the design of other aspects of machines, or materials fabricated) is exactly what directly leads to the higher clockspeed of computers, signal processing capabilities, avionics, and stuff like adaptive optics (microcomputers are also directly applied in NC machine tools in industry). The Soviets made up for this one area by a much broader spectrum of high technology.

    These meaningful areas of “high technology” all reduce to:

    * the design and assembly of a complicated system (like computer architectures, mechatronic systems, software, automatic control systems)

    * the capacity of “precision” machining of high-end devices (e.g. ball bearings in inertial guidance systems, in both ICBMs and aircraft) which depends, in turn, on increased metrological measurement techniques (sometimes, the very large size of something requires new tooling techniques – e.g. the F-1 engine on the Saturn V rocket was scaled up, so they had to design this contraption to smooth out edges of the welding – these are relatively very simple however and so they fall under “systems engineering”)

    * the capacity to fabricate all kinds of very “high-tech” materials and components, which ultimate reduce to controlling or “stabilizing” some phenomena (like impurities in silicon), this also covers the surface engineering, tribological and materials science knowledge for producing titanium, composite materials, optical components and engineering of thin films (“surface engineering” is why mechanical components in, e.g., your car last longer – these improvements also used in robotic space probes)

    The Soviets were far, far (decades) ahead, in the sense of making more fundamental advances in much more high technology “areas” that have little mutual relation to a common device, and these capabilities alone utterly dwarf what American technology and industry is capable of even now (or will be in the far future). In terms of the design of complicated systems for which it is actually a “problem” to design (the first category above), they were actually infinitely ahead, e.g. Soviet mainframe and on-board computers for purposes of fire control and flight navigation (like the neural net computer on the spaceship “Buran”) used so many fantastically ingenious algorithms to make up for the one lag in transistor density used, that it was incredible. Often systems were designed with the goal of maximizing reliability with unreliable components (this was a problem of inherent interest, studed by von Neumann in the USA). In aerodynamics and aerohydrodynamics, in supercomputer architectures and the design of automatic control systems… it would be futile to attempt to enumerate all of those areas.

    And not only were they able to fabricate and produce prototypes in the scale of the laboratory or machine shop (with manual soldering, welding, tooling and special machining for “precision” components – btw this is how equipment in the space program is produced as well as other machines that have short production runs), but they could produce it via fully automated robotic production plants, that achieved fantastic results in the energy conservation. A small number of Soviet production plants produced much more main battle tanks, atomic and diesel submarines, aircraft, ICBMs, strategic reserves and components, etc. than the rest of the world combined.

    BTW – even in microelectronics components, it was always acknowledged (e.g. by civilian analysts in RAND Corporation) that Soviets could always batch produce small quantities of the very best microelectronics, since their expertise (in physics, chemistry, materials science) was higher. It was just a question of perfecting the mass production of it (the particular kind of precision tooling, clean rooms, quality control practices) to such a degree of uniformity so as to mass produce it cheaply – that was something American industry perfected in the period from WWII to the Apollo program. Also, due to economic problems Soviets did not build enough production plants for microelectronics, so there was a production bottleneck on top of it. But the “technology” was in fact developed (just that actual components were in short supply).

    The CIA (that could tap into undersea cables) and American reconaissance satellites (that can intercept telemetric data) knew this, since they picked up absolutely incredible capabilities e.g. American passive sonar picked up a Soviet combat submarine that could dive to 3000 feet (due to gigantic advances in high-strenth titanium hulls and other metallurgical technologies). This is due to engineered technology (some advances of which are important enough to be called new “technologies”, even), and not “systems engineering” or whatever Americans mostly did in the 60s space program. Due to advances in a gigantic range of component technologies related to photonic systems and optoelectronics, Soviet ocean reconaissance, synthetic aperture radar and all kinds of weapons platforms have remote sensing and optical tracking capabilities that are completely beyond anything the USA has in development even now (some of these components, like spatial light modulators were examined in the research laboratories – IIRC, including Lawrence Livermore – after the Soviet collapse, and an attempt to “copy” them failed).

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Sovs missed out on Moore's Law and couldn't catch up.
  76. @Anonymous
    Americans consider the US to have been "ahead" in "most fields" of the "technology base" but of course those "areas" so classified are all the direct consequence of just one narrow area that the USA was ahead in - i.e., mass produced microelectronics and so increased transistor density - this (and not the design of other aspects of machines, or materials fabricated) is exactly what directly leads to the higher clockspeed of computers, signal processing capabilities, avionics, and stuff like adaptive optics (microcomputers are also directly applied in NC machine tools in industry). The Soviets made up for this one area by a much broader spectrum of high technology.

    These meaningful areas of "high technology" all reduce to:

    * the design and assembly of a complicated system (like computer architectures, mechatronic systems, software, automatic control systems)

    * the capacity of "precision" machining of high-end devices (e.g. ball bearings in inertial guidance systems, in both ICBMs and aircraft) which depends, in turn, on increased metrological measurement techniques (sometimes, the very large size of something requires new tooling techniques - e.g. the F-1 engine on the Saturn V rocket was scaled up, so they had to design this contraption to smooth out edges of the welding - these are relatively very simple however and so they fall under "systems engineering")

    * the capacity to fabricate all kinds of very "high-tech" materials and components, which ultimate reduce to controlling or "stabilizing" some phenomena (like impurities in silicon), this also covers the surface engineering, tribological and materials science knowledge for producing titanium, composite materials, optical components and engineering of thin films ("surface engineering" is why mechanical components in, e.g., your car last longer - these improvements also used in robotic space probes)

    The Soviets were far, far (decades) ahead, in the sense of making more fundamental advances in much more high technology "areas" that have little mutual relation to a common device, and these capabilities alone utterly dwarf what American technology and industry is capable of even now (or will be in the far future). In terms of the design of complicated systems for which it is actually a "problem" to design (the first category above), they were actually infinitely ahead, e.g. Soviet mainframe and on-board computers for purposes of fire control and flight navigation (like the neural net computer on the spaceship "Buran") used so many fantastically ingenious algorithms to make up for the one lag in transistor density used, that it was incredible. Often systems were designed with the goal of maximizing reliability with unreliable components (this was a problem of inherent interest, studed by von Neumann in the USA). In aerodynamics and aerohydrodynamics, in supercomputer architectures and the design of automatic control systems... it would be futile to attempt to enumerate all of those areas.

    And not only were they able to fabricate and produce prototypes in the scale of the laboratory or machine shop (with manual soldering, welding, tooling and special machining for "precision" components - btw this is how equipment in the space program is produced as well as other machines that have short production runs), but they could produce it via fully automated robotic production plants, that achieved fantastic results in the energy conservation. A small number of Soviet production plants produced much more main battle tanks, atomic and diesel submarines, aircraft, ICBMs, strategic reserves and components, etc. than the rest of the world combined.

    BTW - even in microelectronics components, it was always acknowledged (e.g. by civilian analysts in RAND Corporation) that Soviets could always batch produce small quantities of the very best microelectronics, since their expertise (in physics, chemistry, materials science) was higher. It was just a question of perfecting the mass production of it (the particular kind of precision tooling, clean rooms, quality control practices) to such a degree of uniformity so as to mass produce it cheaply - that was something American industry perfected in the period from WWII to the Apollo program. Also, due to economic problems Soviets did not build enough production plants for microelectronics, so there was a production bottleneck on top of it. But the "technology" was in fact developed (just that actual components were in short supply).

    The CIA (that could tap into undersea cables) and American reconaissance satellites (that can intercept telemetric data) knew this, since they picked up absolutely incredible capabilities e.g. American passive sonar picked up a Soviet combat submarine that could dive to 3000 feet (due to gigantic advances in high-strenth titanium hulls and other metallurgical technologies). This is due to engineered technology (some advances of which are important enough to be called new "technologies", even), and not "systems engineering" or whatever Americans mostly did in the 60s space program. Due to advances in a gigantic range of component technologies related to photonic systems and optoelectronics, Soviet ocean reconaissance, synthetic aperture radar and all kinds of weapons platforms have remote sensing and optical tracking capabilities that are completely beyond anything the USA has in development even now (some of these components, like spatial light modulators were examined in the research laboratories - IIRC, including Lawrence Livermore - after the Soviet collapse, and an attempt to "copy" them failed).

    The Sovs missed out on Moore’s Law and couldn’t catch up.

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