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Half of The Iliad would consist of complaints about society’s unfair attitude toward Helen of Troy’s hair.

 
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  1. This is why Neil deGrasse Tyson isn’t really a scientist — and why the beautiful Hayden planetarium he ostensibly runs in Manhattan gives worthless programs. Seriously, they are Cosmos for Idiots.

    • Agree: ben tillman, TWS
  2. Well, we are certainly going to see how it turns out.

  3. Helen had the good hair.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    , @Anonymous
  4. Men built civilization and explored to impress women. Women are much too practical. I think we would have stopped at cooking food if they were complete partners from the beginning.

    Of course maybe that’s just my wife’s influence.

  5. Samuel Butler, whose popularity has waned over the last century, developed a theory that The Odyssey was written by a woman living on Sicily.

    • Replies: @Thea
  6. anon[124] • Disclaimer says:

    Per Camille Paglia:
    “If civilization had been left up to women, we would all still be living in mud huts.”

  7. anon[282] • Disclaimer says:

    He’s gotta recoup reputation capital after the #MeToo allegations against him.

    • Replies: @Thirdtwin
  8. Dennis Dale says: • Website

    This is the assumption of the new dispensation after all–that there’s a natural state of pure equity perverted by the patriarchy and racism; along with the ladies there’s all that lost black talent (“a mind is a terrible thing to waste” came out of the “underutilization” meme lobbying for the first civil rights acts as being good for the economy–we were losing all that black talent!

    If we wee allowed to question this stuff these would be the rhetorcial routes by which we disprove the equality delusion. Antiquity mandating full participation of women would mean we wouldn’t be here talking about “antiquity”, if we managed to make it here at all. If anything assuming male/female behavorial equality is even worse than assuming racial equality, what with the implications for the home. Utter disaster. I do want to ask the dahkies, or rather their “white” advocates re the subject of reparations: aren’t they only valid if we place zero value on all those liberal values, such as women’s rights, the vote, liberty–the very concept of “civil rights”, ffs, seeing as these things didn’t exist in the Africa from which black Americans’ ancestors came (and they don’t exist there now).

    The argument offered by the guy who wrote “the Affirmative Action Hoax” remains unchallenged: if all that talent was laying fallow, someone would go buy it cheap and clean up. Businesses in fact have done that, where it’s made sense–such as moving women into office work, or mestizos into laboring jobs.

    • Agree: Ian Smith, Hail, Currahee
  9. nebulafox says:

    No, Helen of Troy probably would have been driven to suicide one way or another by the women of Troy before the poem began had she not been kept away in the palace. The men might have hated her and wanted her to go, but couldn’t help but be sucked in by her looks as late as the tenth year. The women were not, and I suspect that the reality that women are far more socially vicious to each other than they are to men, or men are to them, or men are to each other hasn’t changed much through history.

    I genuinely feel sorry for women on this score. If another man hates you, usually, you’ll know. That’ll be that. For them, on the surface, it’s all smiles, but underneath… I’d get paranoid quickly, trying to decode all the subtle possibilities. It really seems miserable. I don’t blame women for wanting male friends, despite inevitable unwanted sexual attention. Way less exhausting.

    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
  10. inertial says:

    Tyson’s wife is smarter than him. So I can understand where he is coming from.

    • Replies: @Hank Archer
  11. Johnny789 says:

    They were there from the beginning, until one of them wanted to take a shortcut and eat from the “Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil”

  12. On the surface that tweet sounds like he’s scapegoating men but I think he’s actually insulting women. “Half the brainpower…” but they didn’t use it (according to him).

  13. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Fewer smart would have had kids.

    More questions.

    Imagine if, from the very beginning, all the smart men forwent marriage, family, and child-rearing and devoted their full time to arts and sciences. Imagine all the stuff they would have created.

    But what about life?

    • Agree: Alan Mercer
  14. I keep hearing that if only women were running things, the world would be a some much more peaceful place. The record of women politicians doesn’t support that assertion, probably because the type of women that seek power are not like the women who want to stay at home and raise children. They’re not much different than the type of men who seek power.

  15. Would civilization even exist without the division of labor that had existed between the sexes for eons?

    If this radical equality had been enforced more recently, say 5,000 years ago, isn’t it likely to have led to total stagnation, if not reversal?

    Since this division of labor existed everywhere on earth for millennia since civilization began, isn’t it likely to have conferred some competitive advantage over societies that were less patriarchal? Seems like a scientist would ask those questions.

  16. OT Sir Roger Scruton has died. Bad news.

    Tyson’s a joke. He imagines that by praising some vague women he becomes consequential, but really he poses as the globo-homo HR department that merely proclaims that Women Did Things Too without being too specific about what that was. So what? He’s the Affirmative Action creep who tells me that I need to kowtow to some boring suffragists rather than wanting to read The Skeleton in Armour. He’s a loser. I hated these people when i was ten and I hate them now, because they want to tell me how I think and feel. These guys don’t help women, they merely strive to control them in new woke ways.

  17. @Harry Baldwin

    I haven’t heard it at all. Why subject yourself to nonsense?

  18. JimDandy says:

    Somebody’s trying really hard to un-#Metoo himself once and for all. Crazy thing is–it just. might. work.

  19. In honor of a well-made man rejoining that Maker:

    • Thanks: Buzz Mohawk, Liza, Pheasant
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  20. syonredux says:

    Half of The Iliad would consist of complaints about society’s unfair attitude toward Helen of Troy’s hair.

    Helen’s one of those Beckys with the good hair….

  21. istevefan says:

    Imagine how much more advanced society would be today if all men, who comprise half the world’s brain power, were socially & intellectually enfranchised from the beginning of civilization.

    It seems that quite a lot of the leading scientists of the past few centuries came from wealthy backgrounds that gave them the free time needed to tinker around with their theories. Poor men had to work hard to put food on the table.

    Whether it is some smart immigrant guy without a formal education, or some lower middle class White guy in fly over country, there are a lot of men with potential who never get the opportunity to fully develop that potential.

    My guess is we have lost more from their absence than from the ladies’.

    • Replies: @Liza
    , @SFG
  22. newrouter says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    Hillarities “baking cookies” comment comes to mind

  23. What if smart women never had kids because they were doing stuff men could do just as well or better? How much less advanced would we be?

    Tyson’s a moron.

  24. Moses says:

    The original “Survivor” reality TV show originally was Dutch.

    From Reddit:

    In one season of the Dutch version of “Survivor,” the men and women were split and given their own islands. At the end of 8 days, the men had a “Cafe on the beach,” while the women were stealing from each other and had not yet built a hut; the women approved of a tribe merger.

    Read the whole thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/3cswfp/in_one_season_of_the_dutch_version_of_survivor/

    Comment from the thread:

    The first season of Survivor was Swedish, it’s been around here since 1997, with some breaks every now and then.
    A few times they have been separated by gender. The outcome is always the same, especially when there is a new arrival.
    The men welcome the new arrivals and make them their buddies. They may not like more competition but treat them well and joke around. The females tend to hate new arrivals, often they try to freeze them out and not talk with them. They also have major drama in the group, talking behind peoples backs and making enemies left and right.
    The camps are also very different, the guys make a camp, gather food and get along. The females generally do nothing, the make some attempts the first few days and then give up. Laying in the sun and talking bad about who ever isn’t present.

    It makes 100% complete sense to anyone who’s lived a day in his life.

    Women bear and raise children, are social creatures. They are not suited at all to wrestle sustenance from the natural environment. That’s men’s role.

    I learned all this at 9 years old watching my mother wrestle with the VCR or trying to put up a camping tent.

    • Replies: @Pheasant
    , @prime noticer
  25. @Harry Baldwin

    I keep hearing that if only women were running things, the world would be a some much more peaceful place. The record of women politicians doesn’t support that assertion . . . .

    Forget women politicians. Just think of women.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  26. syonredux says:

    “If civilization had been left in female hands, we would still be living in grass huts. ”

    -Camille Paglia

  27. Cortes says:

    Manicure must’ve been a big thing back in the day since rosy-fingered Dawn featured in the original movie plus the sequel.

  28. Historically half of humanity’s brain power focused on raising children, which is clearly a poor investment.

  29. anon[339] • Disclaimer says:

    • Replies: @I Have Scinde
  30. Kronos says:

    The Trojan War started off from female vanity.

    From Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_(mythology)

    In celebration of the marriage of Peleus and Thetis, Lord Zeus, father of the Greek pantheon, hosted a banquet on Mount Olympus. Every deity and demi-god had been invited, except Eris, the goddess of strife (no one wanted a troublemaker at a wedding). For revenge, Eris threw the golden Apple of Discord inscribed with “tēi kallistēi” – “For the most beautiful” – into the party, provoking a squabble among the attendant goddesses over for whom it had been meant.

    The goddesses thought to be the most beautiful were Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite, and each one claimed the apple. They started a quarrel so they asked Zeus to choose one of them. Knowing that choosing any of them would bring him the hatred of the other two, Zeus did not want to take part in the decision. He thus appointed Paris to select the most beautiful.

    Escorted by Hermes, the three goddesses bathed in the spring of Mount Ida and approached Paris as he herded his cattle. Having been given permission by Zeus to set any conditions he saw fit, Paris required that the goddesses undress before him[5] (alternatively, the goddesses themselves chose to disrobe to show all their beauty). Still, Paris could not decide, as all three were ideally beautiful, so the goddesses attempted to bribe him to choose among them. Hera offered ownership of all of Europe and Asia. Athena offered skill in battle, wisdom and the abilities of the greatest warriors. Aphrodite offered the love of the most beautiful woman on Earth: Helen of Sparta. Paris chose Aphrodite and therefore Helen.

    Helen was already married to King Menelaus of Sparta (a fact Aphrodite neglected to mention), so Paris had to raid Menelaus’s house to steal Helen from him – according to some accounts, she fell in love with Paris and left willingly.

    The Greeks’ expedition to retrieve Helen from Paris in Troy is the mythological basis of the Trojan War. This triggered the war because Helen was famous for her beauty throughout Achaea (ancient Greece), and had many suitors of extraordinary ability. Therefore, following Odysseus’s advice, her father Tyndareus made all suitors promise to defend Helen’s marriage to the man he chose for her. When Paris took her to Troy, Menelaus invoked this oath. Helen’s other suitors – who between them represented the lion’s share of Achaea’s strength, wealth and military prowess – were obliged to help bring her back. Thus, the whole of Greece moved against Troy in force and the Trojan War began.


    I remember that from school. That was a basic backstory component of the book. Three goddesses of Greek mythology asked Paris the “who’s the fairest of them all” question and stuff went out of control REAL quick. All because a forth goddess was spiteful for not getting invited to a damn party. That’s basic bitch 101 stuff.

    • Replies: @Carol
  31. Liza says:
    @istevefan

    If there were no poor men, who would have been putting all that food on the table for aeons? Not everyone can be a great inventor or scientist. Without the poor and the mediocre, we would have ceased to exist.

    • Replies: @SFG
    , @bomag
  32. SFG says:
    @istevefan

    While that’s true, it’s only recently we’ve had the opportunity for most human beings to employed anywhere except agriculture–most people had to be employed growing (or gathering, in preagricultural societies) food before any of that extra stuff were possible.

    • Agree: Liza
  33. You joke but Daniel Robinson in his Teaching Company class on the ancient Greeks makes the direct central point that every single time Helen speaks, she speaks on the topic of Helen.

  34. SFG says:
    @Liza

    Exactly. Food production was too laborious before the modern era for most people to do anything else.

    • Thanks: Liza
  35. …every single time Helen speaks, she speaks on the topic of Helen.

    As in,

  36. If the world were run by an all-female government, their cycles would sync up and we’d have a civil war every 28 days.

    • LOL: Cortes, ben tillman
    • Replies: @Cortes
  37. Pheasant says:
    @Moses

    How did the vcr taste?

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
  38. @anon

    Selma: “You can’t spell obsequious without IOU.”
    Homer (Simpson): “I’ll have to trust you on that.”

  39. Apparently Neil was out sick the day Begging the Question was taught in school.

  40. @Buzz Mohawk

    Building looks like shit you ask me. Not into glass and steel cubes. Crazy me.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  41. Yeah, and maybe we wouldn’t have Jackson Pollack, that epitome of manhood.

  42. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:

    Women are the fuel that feeds nearly all moral panics of history.

    Panic is an evolutionary strategy. Female hysteria is biologically useful. It is helpful that women freak out when they detect a spider or snake. Her Darwinian fitness is increased by the freakout.

    But that doesn’t compute in positions of critical authority. It is suicidal fools who let women take over.

    Damn the cuckstocracy.

    DOWN WITH THE MATRIARCHY

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    , @Reg Cæsar
  43. @Desiderius

    I’d never heard of Jake and Dinos before this.

    But consider them, George Michael, Cat, Arianna, Milo, Taki… Greeks in the UK are a scary lot.

  44. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Imagine how more serious and dignified American Science would be if poseurs and fakers like Tyson were not made the face of it.

    And damn that Einstein. Imagine what his mother could have been if she didn’t have him.

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
  45. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Planet Albany

    Helen had the good hair.

    We are told that patriarchal men tortured and killed women as witches.

    But women love to tear other women down. They turn into witches of envy and become the queen in Snow White. They turn into raptors, birds of prey.

    NEON DEMON does for female rivalry what APOCALYPSE NOW did for male warrior instinct.

    • Agree: Kronos
  46. Michael S says:

    Tyson really is insufferable.

    We know what society looks like when women are permanently enfranchised. It looks like Africa.

    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
  47. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:

    all the smart men forwent marriage

    Forwent? Bwahahahahaha.

    We’re trying to speak understandable English here.

    Were you wearing a codpiece when you typed that?

    Back to the teacher’s lounge with you.

  48. Anonymous[123] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    if only women were running things, the world would be a some much more peaceful place.

    World War II would never have happened if women had been allowed to vote in the U.S. and in Germany. NO, WAIT …

  49. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:

    How come black dudes with their high testosterone bodies have brains prone to feminine traits like emotionalism, hysteria, narcissism, superstition, panic under fire…?

    Raven’s qb Lamar Jackson checked off a lot of racial stereotypes on Saturday. It was another disappointing man-child performance. Like Winston and Vick and all the rest of these same types.

    Hard not to notice that frequently admixture guys like Wilson back to Moon don’t exhibit the feminine mental traits that are guaranteed to increase your odds of losing an NFL playoff game.

    Mixed black QBs play more white i.e. calm cool collected. In other words emotionally controlled. Meaning more masculine.

    So there’s a chance white guys are actually more masculine thinkers than black guys? Amirite, Mr Tyson?

  50. Anonymous[277] • Disclaimer says:

    Pure Darwinian style rationality in the struggle for existence, effectively negates this one:

    To put it bluntly:

    If women, in the general, *did* have such intellectual gifts in that including their ‘contribution’ would have given one particular, tribe, nation, people etc ‘the edge’ over the rest of humanity, if that tribe were ‘inclusive’, (to use the modern cant) of women, then that tribe would either, (1) Dominate the world and all that’s in it, (2) Cause the rest of the world to reciprocate in the desire to resist domination.

    Since none of those things happened, until the modern era of lefty PC bullshit, then De Grasse Tyson’s hypothesis can be safely disregarded.

  51. Neoconned says:
    @anon

    Miss Paglia is very sadly correct….

    I work 2 and sometimes three jobs and I’m still broke. Like I Like to say…..my wife is good at inventing ways to waste money on shalt she doesnt need

  52. BB753 says:
    @RichardTaylor

    Well, we already know what would have happened “empowering” wymyn since the beginning of civilization: it would have withered and disappeared. Because that is what’s happening today in the current woke post-industrial world. No division of labor means family units are not sustainable and thus no kids. Then chaos follows (this is the current situation) and finally civilization crumbles and dies (50 years from now).

  53. @anon

    Our [sic] own Fred Reed put it better – a society run by women would fail the first time the oil needed changing.

    I paraphrase – I’m half-pissed and too lazy to look it up – the precise wording will be somewhere in Fred’s archives.

  54. Neil deGrasse Tyson = Steely Dan is negros! [Soylent Green is people!]

  55. @anon

    That’s racist against subsaharan Africa.

    • LOL: bomag
  56. Maybe such experiments took place here and there, but they were soon annihilated by toxic-masculinity cultures.

    It might have worked if all societies across the planet had made a pact…

  57. Anon[174] • Disclaimer says:

    Most progressive guys who’ve been through the #metoo/cancellation wringer and just barely survived start to move right to a more “intellectual dark web” or “Bill Maher adjacent” political stance. But Neil deGrasse Tyson is giving the old college try to the tactic of just pretending it didn’t happen. It will be interesting to see whether it works.

  58. @Anonymous

    African American men are feminine because most are raised by women only. I don’t know if mixed race kids have parents who stick together more.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  59. @TelfoedJohn

    NFL quarterbacks usually grew up with Dad very much around the house. It takes a lot of nature and nurture to produce an NFL quarterback.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    , @nymom
  60. Romanian says:

    Odd that the Greek intellectual heyday was when they kept the women locked up! That surely reduced distractions 😛

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  61. @RichardTaylor

    “isn’t it likely to have conferred some competitive advantage over societies that were less patriarchal? “

    Exactly. And the reality is that it’s the most “patriarchal” societies that are most evolutionarily successful at the moment – in the UK that’s Muslims and Haredim. And globally, it’s Africans that are the most evolutionarily successful.

    Now you can say that all of the above examples are only possible because of welfare of one sort or other – but that’s not the point – just think of ‘welfare’ as an evolutionary niche.

    There’s a sort-of parallel – if companies could really make more profit by employing more women/minorities then they’d be doing so already and no compulsion/monitoring would be needed. Capitalists these days are quite happy to sell out their people for more profit, and even happier selling out someone else’s people.

    It’s actually already happened – there’s been lots of comments/gloating over the last couple of decades to the effect that women are doing better in “the modern economy” (often bureaucratic desk work) than men are. Women are less likely to strike/kick off about terms and conditions, plus they have other advantages as employees (even in the #metoo world, droit du directeur* is still a thing).

    * obviously not in a medieval sense, but just see which female staff get to go to the sales conference in an exotic location.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  62. @Anonymous

    “How come black dudes with their high testosterone…”

    Because testosterone is merely one ingredient in a fairly complicated chemical cocktail.

  63. Brutusale says:
    @Anonymous

    Someone commented a few days ago about all the black QBs in the NFL playoffs.

    There’s a half of one left.

  64. Realist says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Tyson is a SJW celebrity…not a scientist.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
  65. I was certainly a fan of Dr. Tyson when I was a kid. He clearly knows his astrophysics but not his Oswald Spengler:

    “And at that point, too, in Buddhist India as in Babylon, in Rome as in our own cities, a man’s choice of the woman who is to be, not mother of his children as amongst peasants and primitives, but his own “companion for life”, becomes a problem of mentalities. The Ibsen marriage appears, the “higher spiritual affinity” in which both parties are “free”—free, that is, as intelligences, free from the plantlike urge of the blood to continue itself, and it becomes possible for a Shaw to say “that unless Woman repudiates her womanliness, her duty to her husband, to her children, to society, to the law, and to everyone but herself, she cannot emancipate herself.” The primary woman, the peasant woman, is mother. The whole vocation towards which she has yearned from childhood is included in that one word. But now emerges the Ibsen woman, the comrade, the heroine of a whole megalopolitan literature from Northern drama to Parisian novel. Instead of children, she has soul-conflicts; marriage is a craft-art for the achievement of “mutual understanding”.

    At this level all Civilizations enter upon a stage, which lasts for centuries, of appalling depopulation. The whole pyramid of cultural man vanishes. It crumbles from the summit, first the world-cities, then the provincial forms, and finally the land itself, whose best blood has incontinently poured into the towns, merely to bolster them up awhile. At the last, only the primitive blood remains, alive, but robbed of its strongest and most promising elements. This residue is the Fellah type.

    If anything has demonstrated the fact that Causality has nothing to do with history, it is the familiar “decline” of the Classical, which accomplished itself long before the irruption of Germanic migrants. The Imperium enjoyed the completest peace; it was rich and highly developed; it was well organized; and it possessed in its emperors from Nerva to Marcus Aurelius a series of rulers such as the Caesarism of no other Civilization can show. And yet the population dwindled, quickly and wholesale. The desperate marriage-and-children laws of Augustus—amongst them the Lex de maritandis ordinibus, which dismayed Roman society more than the destruction of Varus’s legions—the wholesale adoptions, the incessant plantation of soldiers of barbarian origin to fill the depleted country-side, the immense food-charities of Nerva and Trajan for the children of poor parents—nothing availed to check the process.”

    • Replies: @Anonymouse
  66. @nebulafox

    That’s why many women want gay friends. No unwanted sexual attention, a semi-male who shares their interests and attitudes without the discovery that all of the attention was a ploy to get into their pants.

  67. Dr. X says:
    @anon

    “The male is by nature superior, the female inferior.”

    Aristotle, Politics Book I

  68. Arclight says:

    A typically vapid Tyson comment – a fully modern society is a precondition for the possibility of women abandoning child-rearing favor of devoting their working hours towards the jobs that were typically done by men. It took thousands of years of ‘civilization’ to get to this point, and if it’s not obvious to the good doctor, ‘civilization’ as he means it did/does not exist everywhere on the planet either. It had to be brought there through policies and institutions the woke regularly slam as racist and colonialist.

    • Agree: AnotherDad
  69. @anon

    There’s a surprisingly un-woke Outer Limits — from the 1990s reboot — where nearly all men have been killed off and the resulting female society is a stagnant, low-tech hut-dwelling mess. A surviving guy shows up and mansplains how the gurls can get their act together, but complications ensue

  70. One female commenter gave a hilarious review on goodreads

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1371.The_Iliad
    ………….
    Grace Tjan
    Shelves: 2011, classics, doorstoppers

    What I learned from this book (in no particular order):

    1. Victory or defeat in ancient Greek wars is primarily the result of marital spats and/or petty sibling rivalry in Zeus and Hera’s dysfunctional divine household.

    2. Zeus “the father of gods and men” is a henpecked husband who is also partial to domestic abuse.

    [MORE]

    3. If you take a pretty girl who is the daughter of a priest of Apollo as war booty and refuse to have her ransomed, Apollo will rain plague on your troops. And he won’t be appeased until you return the girl and throw him a ginormous BBQ party involving hundreds of cattle at his temple.

    4. If an arrow or a spear were thrown at you in battle, more often than not, it would land on your nipple or thereabout. Or alternatively, it would pierce your helmet and splatter your brain.

    5. Paris is a proper guy’s name, not just a name for capital cities or bratty heiresses.

    6. Brad Pitt in man skirt* Achilles is the badassest warrior there ever was.

    7. Real men eat red meat, specifically:
    a. sheep chines;
    b. fat goats; and
    c. the long back cuts of a full-grown pig, marbled with lard.

    8. The most valuable booty are (in no particular order):

    a. bronze tripods (each worth 12 oxens) and armors;
    b. swift war stallions; and
    c. pretty women (each worth 4 oxens, if also skilled in crafts). Lesbians are particularly prized.

    9. There is nothing more glorious for a warrior than to sack enemy cities, plunder their wealth, kill all their men, bed their pretty women and enslave their children.

    10. The only men who matter are warriors, but if you are a woman, the range of roles that you could play is rather more diverse. You could be:

    a. a runaway wife who sparks a cosmic battle between your thuggish hubby’s city-state and your cowardly boyfriend’s (1);
    b. a war booty with a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome (2);
    c. a manipulative uber bitch (who also happens to be a goddess) (3);
    d. a long-suffering wife and mother (4).

    (1) Helen (2) Briseis (3) Hera (4) Andromache

    But whatever role you choose to play, you will still be the bone of contention between men and the armies that they lead. All the major conflicts in the story are triggered by women, or specifically by their sexuality: Helen’s elopement with Paris launched a thousand Argive ships against Troy; Agamemnon’s desire to bed Briseis, Achilles’ lawful prize, caused a nearly unhealable rift between them; and Hector’s desire to protect his wife from the dismal fate of being an Argive sex slave inspired him to fight Achilles to the death. Homer’s mortal women might be meek and mild, but his goddesses can kick ass with the best of them, and even occasionally best their male counterparts: Zeus is not above being manipulated by Hera, and Ares the God of War actually got whacked on the head by Athena.

    *Troy, Brad Pitt, Eric Bana, Warner Bros. 2004.

    What I find most surprising about the Iliad is the amount of graphic, X-rated violence that it contains. The violence is not the biblical slaying and smiting, but something much more voyeuristically gory:

    “…the one Peneleos lanced beneath the brows, down to the eyes’ roots and scooped an eyeball out — the spear cut clean through the socket, out behind the nape and backward down he sat, both hands stretched wide as Peneleos, quickly drawing his whetted sword, hacked him square in the neck and lopped his head and down on the ground it tumbled, helmet and all. But the big spear’s point still stuck in the eye socket —.”

    I imagine that this kind of anatomically precise, brain-splattering, gut-spilling action scenes made the Iliad popular with the Romans, who routinely went to the Colosseum to watch gladiators hack each other to death, but there is only so much of it that I could take in one sitting, which is why it took me almost three months to finish it. It is not that I’m particularly sensitive to fictional death and dismemberment — and after all, this book is a war book — but the sheer amount of such scenes, as well as their mind-numbing repetitiveness made for tedious reading. It doesn’t help that many of these deaths happened to seemingly throwaway characters, barely introduced in three or four lines, merely to be summarily (and gorily) dispatched in another half a dozen lines on the same page. The Iliad is assumed to be the written version of a much older oral poem, and such characters might represent collective memories of real Bronze Age warriors, but by Zeus, hundreds of pages of them being hacked, cleaved and skewered to death almost did me in.

    Now, what is the purpose of such meticulously catalogued carnage? Was Homer trying to present War with all its attendant horrors to shock his audience into pacifism? Or was the old guy just trying to write an 8th century BCE equivalent of a blockbuster action-adventure movie with enough gore to satisfy his young male demographic? The Iliad both celebrates and laments the warrior spirit: the haughty pride and terrible thirst for vengeance and plunder that set men to distant shores, intent on razing cities and putting its inhabitants to slaughter, but also the stark, tragic consequences of such acts.

    I actually find the gods’ politicking and manipulations more interesting than the actual war. The Greek gods are blissfully free of any human notion of morality — which makes the problem of theodicy much more simpler to solve than in the Judeo-Christian model. The Olympian gods do not move in mysterious ways: they are moved by caprice and petty grievances. Why did we suffer such an ignominious defeat, despite all that we had done to win Zeus’ favor? Well, it happened that just before the battle was about to begin, Hera seduced him and subsequently put him to sleep with the help of Hypnos, whom she bribed with one of the Graces. A perfectly logical and very human explanation.

    The story gets much more interesting in the last five books. The Olympian gods entered into the fray and the effect is sometimes like watching WWE SmackDown:

    “Bloody Ares lunged at it now with giant lance
    and Athena backed away, her powerful hand hefting
    a boulder off the plain, black, jagged, a ton weight
    that men in the old days planted there to make off plowland —
    Pallas hurled that boundary-stone at Ares, struck his neck,
    loosed his limbs, and down he crashed and out over seven acres
    sprawled the enormous god and his mane dragged in the dust.”

    Or maybe an episode of Super Friends :

    “How do you have the gall, you shameless bitch,
    to stand and fight me here?
    ….
    But since you’d like a lesson in warfare, Artemis,
    just to learn, to savor how much stronger I am
    when you engage my power —“

    The gods are “deathless”, so you know that there won’t be any lasting harm from their catfight, but the cost of battle to all too mortal men is heavy indeed. This was a time when war was as elemental as they come: no mercy was shown to the enemy on the battlefield, save one that pertained to a warrior’s honor, which was to be buried with full honors by his family and comrades. When mighty, “stallion-breaking” Hector finally succumbed to Achilles in a strangely anticlimactic duel, his father Priam went to Achilles’ camp and

    “kneeling down beside Achilles, clasped his knees
    and kissed his hands, those terrible, man-killing hands
    that had slaughtered Priam’s many sons in battle.”

    Troy’s old king begged for his son’s body, and in the magnificent, poignant last book, Homer showed us the real cost of war, both on the vanquished and the triumphant. By the will of the gods, Achilles’ death would soon follow: his destiny was ultimately no different from the rest of tragic humanity, fated to suffer and die by callous, immoral gods for causes that were entirely beyond their ken.

    “So the immortals spun our lives that we, we wretched men
    live on to bear such torments —“

    • Replies: @keypusher
  71. Carol says:
    @Kronos

    And they consulted (female) oracles at every step. Hell, women have been installed in temples as goddesses or oracles since Ur.

    What’s up with that?

    • Replies: @Kronos
    , @Daniel Chieh
  72. There’s a great Seinfeld bit where Jerry and George go into deep detail about how boys give each other wedgies, culminating in the atomic wedgie, where the underwear goes over the top of the head.

    Elaine was then asked what girls do to someone they want to have fun abusing.

    “Oh, we just tease her until she gets an eating disorder.”

    Yep, that about sums it up.

  73. @RichardTaylor

    Your burden of proof is backwards.

  74. Spud Boy says:

    NGT is an idiot.

    Society is advanced by the geniuses among us, almost all of which are men because of the higher standard deviation of male intelligence.

  75. Uh-oh — No females nominated for Best Director

  76. He really doesn’t realize how much of an AA Divrrsitard hire he is outing himself as with comments like that!!!!!

  77. Would you rather fly on a 737Max or a plane totally designed and engineered by women?

    A for me.

  78. @obwandiyag

    The planetarium is inside the sphere-inside-the-cube. What is cool is the sphere, because it represents the spherical space around our planet, and the hemispherical sky above that is projected inside. You walk up a stairway and then inside the sphere at its midpoint, and then you sit and recline inside at that midpoint, where the ground and horizon would be on our planet.

    They could produce any and all of the greatest astronomical lessons in there, but they don’t, and this planetarium is located on one of the most impressive, valuable, high-profile pieces of real estate in all of America.

    All has been sacrificed to Stupidity. The victim of this and all things like it is Reason.

    • Replies: @Anonymouse
  79. @Steve Sailer

    NFL quarterbacks usually grew up with Dad very much around the house. It takes a lot of nature and nurture to produce an NFL quarterback.

    That’s generally true, but there are exceptions. Lamar Jackson’s dad died when he was 8. Daunte Culpepper’s single mom was doing time for armed robbery when he was born and he was raised by a foster mom with 15 kids. All in all, considering the prevalence of absent dads in the Black community , it’s remarkable how many Black QBs grew up in homes with dads.

  80. Hats off to the coder of the Unz pages who recently centered pop-up comments on the screen!

    • Agree: Yngvar
  81. @Buzz Mohawk

    The planetarium that was replaced by the present one was impressive. The ceiling of the auditorium was spherical and an enormous apparatus built by Leitz & Co. projected whatever starry sky was required. I remember the sky moving to where the Southern Cross appeared. I said to my father I must have seen that at some time. My father a merchant mariner by trade replied “No you didn’t.”

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    , @Anonymous
  82. @Romanian

    Odd that the Greek intellectual heyday was when they kept the women locked up! That surely reduced distractions 😛

    It hasn’t worked for the Saudi’s yet, but now that MBS has reversed course we’ll never know. Perhaps we were on the verge of a breakthrough? Old Yiddish joke – A man tells his friend ” Yankel, I have no mazel(luck), I had a brilliant idea to train my horse not to eat . I gave him less and less to eat every week and just when I was at the brink of success he up and keeled over.”

  83. Boy, does he know his fan base.

  84. @Anonymous

    The ancient rites of Moloch in present day.

  85. Thirdtwin says:
    @anon

    “He’s gotta recoup reputation capital after the #MeToo allegations against him.”

    Exactly. It’s a reputation retcon.

  86. @Kaplan Turqweather

    Spengler is blind to the degree on which the Roman Empire depended on chattel slavery. The depopulation of native Roman stock may have been caused by adopting ancient Greek culture. The depopulation of Greek cities from the 3d century BC on was noticed and remarked on by Roman writers. As there were no known plagues, food failures, etc. in that era, it was speculated that the cause was psycho-philosophical (to coin a term), a loss of belief in any reason to beget and raise children, which is not unknown in modern times.

  87. Women make up 50% of the world’s human population, but only about 40% of the world’s brain power.

    • Replies: @guest
  88. @inertial

    She’d have to be, wouldn’t she? Can’t imagine that she’d be less intelligent.

    • Replies: @inertial
  89. @Michael S

    “It looks like Africa.”

    And America. Black American culture is matriarchal. Black women are the prime movers of the narcissism, vengeance-seeking, and chaos that spews forth from Black America. For their efforts in the imaginary conflict with Whiteness, the Wokians have rewarded the Weave Goddesses with plum positions in government, culture, and media. The Black Lady Virus (BLV) corrupts any system it enters. The House of Windsor is feeling the effects of the BLV. In this case, the BLV has corrupted an already corrupt system.

    • Replies: @danand
  90. “Imagine how much more advanced society would be today if women, who comprise half the world’s brain power, were socially & intellectually enfranchised from the beginning of civilization.”

    Whaa, huh? Neil, stick to the stars.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  91. @Brutusale

    They may be the wave of the future. More and more, NFL teams seem to be going to qbs who can run, notwithstanding that the track record for these kinds of players is at best mixed. No matter, the NFL, like the NBA, thrives on spectacle, so who better to provide spectacle than the stereotypical “Black Athlete.”

  92. sayless says:
    @Anonymous

    They also write more purple prose. Julius Lester, T. Coates come to mind. Reads kind of hysterical to me.

  93. @ben tillman

    And what Moses quoted is the perfect illustration:

    The first season of Survivor was Swedish, it’s been around here since 1997, with some breaks every now and then.

    A few times they have been separated by gender. The outcome is always the same, especially when there is a new arrival.

    The men welcome the new arrivals and make them their buddies. They may not like more competition but treat them well and joke around. The females tend to hate new arrivals, often they try to freeze them out and not talk with them. They also have major drama in the group, talking behind peoples backs and making enemies left and right.

    The camps are also very different, the guys make a camp, gather food and get along. The females generally do nothing, the make some attempts the first few days and then give up. Laying in the sun and talking bad about who ever isn’t present.

  94. @Anonymous

    Jackson quit on the season in 2016 after losing the shootout against Clemson and Deshaun Watson. Somehow Jackson ended up winning the Heisman Trophy anyway.

  95. @Anonymouse

    This depopulation was of course followed by the “Second Religiousness” mainly involving imported “mystery cults” that served the cosmopolitan ethos of the post-ethnic elites. Spengler never anticipated “breeder cults” though (Mormons, Amish, Hutterites, Mennonites, Ultra-Orthodox Jews, SSPX Catholics, Quiverfull Protestants, etc).

  96. @Anonymouse

    …an enormous apparatus built by Leitz & Co. projected whatever starry sky was required.

    That has not changed. It is the heart of any planetarium. What you remember IS a planetarium projector. Leitz is the best and most famous maker of such devices. This has not changed. This is still the core even of the fantastic-but-misused “planetarium” ostensibly run by Tyson on Manhattan Island.

  97. @RichardTaylor

    Equality never happens, it always slants toward one way or another. Specialization is obviously advantageous on some level, or else we wouldn’t have specialized cells in our body.

    • Agree: bomag
  98. @anon

    If there were no women around to impress, men would be pretty content with mud huts, too.

    Also, give women a little credit. We wouldn’t have what we have now but you could expect them to reasonable build timber-framed houses or low stone cottages like you see in the remote parts of the British Isles.

    My 3rd great grandmother was a civil war widow whose husband died when their children were 2 and 4. She ran a farm with her sister’s help and never remarried. Even added on to her house some and built new sheds and whatnot. She had virtually no help from male neighbors, too- she was a deeply religious and spartan woman who didn’t even want to entertain the prospect of remarrying.

    Women can build things when pressed, though not at the level of men. Plus women are lazier because men do things for them.

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Pericles
    , @Bill
  99. Sol says:
    @Anonymouse

    Or maybe God stopped blessing the decadent with children.

  100. J.Ross says:

    I know but do not properly have an example of the sort of woman Neil might have in mind. There is a tweet with the handle “Noha” illustrated by what looks like a Sudanese flag. It claims (and illustrates with photos) that this Noha person was posing for a picture to be taken by her friend, when a white woman walked up to her and started touching her hair without permission or explanation. I couldn’t enlarge the pictures, lost the small image in a refreshing accident, and failed to find this in searching, but the later photos suggested that Noha proceeded to throw down.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  101. It really depends on the environment, although I’m of the belief that present equality is essentially a maladaptive social belief system, stability does seem to generally favor the more passive and “neurotic” behavior of female mammals and we see that in bonobos as well. More aggressive and chaotic environments favor men, so ironically, civilization without violence favors women; men built modern civilization to make life better for women and ultimately remove the purpose for his own existence.

    • Agree: Thea, nymom
    • Replies: @Thea
  102. @Anonymous

    Disagree. The witch hysteria on the early modern period was started by men, & fits into the overall conflict of the Reformation & Counter Reformation. Witch trials were most common in areas where Catholics and Protestants competed for followers.

    Of course, the foot soldiers of a lot of the hysteria and accusations were women. But they certainly didn’t start bringing up the idea of witch hunting and witch trials.

  103. Thea says:
    @Mister.Baseball

    That’s plausible. His ardent love and unwavering loyalty to Penelope are a bit difficult to believe. Most men would at least be tempted.

  104. Thea says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    It can’t really last. Feminism is a consequence of luxury and wealth. Once survival is actually at stake… poof!

  105. nymom says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Then why are all of those footballers talking about getting their mother a house as soon as they make some money…

    Clearly most come from a standardized ghetto background raised by a single mother…

    Same with rappers, most either raised by a mother or grandmother…

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  106. danand says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    “Wokians have rewarded the Weave God(desses) with plum positions in government, culture, and media.”

    SunBakedSuburb, I saw weave in your post and couldn’t help myself.

    Latest ambassador for young people’s literature:

  107. @Moses

    “In one season of the Dutch version of “Survivor,” the men and women were split and given their own islands. At the end of 8 days, the men had a “Cafe on the beach,” while the women were stealing from each other and had not yet built a hut; the women approved of a tribe merger.”

    sounds like my thought experiment of putting mexican men on one island and japanese women on another island. per intelligence tests, there is a huge gap between them.

    come back in a year. the mexican guys have built a town.

    are the japanese women even still alive?

    something about male brains is HUGELY more important than female brains.

    for the psychometricians and physics calculator types like Ed Witten, how large does that gap need to be before both groups are performing, er, rather, failing in about the same way?

    an island of nigerian men would probably still be around, while an island of jewish women would be iffy.

  108. Corvinus says:

    “Half of The Iliad would consist of complaints about society’s unfair attitude toward Helen of Troy’s hair.”

    LOL. I can’t help but NOTICE that you are similarly enthralled by this topic with the same fervor as women of color. Now, Mr. Sailer, how about actually addressing Mr. Tyson’s point rather than engage in snark?

  109. Corvinus says:
    @Prester John

    “Whaa, huh? Neil, stick to the stars.”

    Actually, Mr. Tyson is making an HbD argument. Imagine that had men chosen to enable women to become similarly educated in the sciences and arts. Has it not has been shown that increasing maternal intelligence is associated with reducing child mortality? Would not this phenomenon lead to a greater level of reproductive success for intelligent women, and since intelligence is substantially heritable, natural selection might have tended to increase female intelligence in humans? So, over time, the knowledge level of females would have borne out into their offspring, producing a hardier, studier race of human beings.

    • Replies: @keypusher
  110. From wikipedia

    Tyson earned an AB degree in physics at Harvard College in 1980 and then began his graduate work at the University of Texas at Austin, from which he received an MA degree in astronomy in 1983. By his own account, he did not spend as much time in the research lab as he should have. His professors encouraged him to consider alternate careers and the committee for his doctoral dissertation was dissolved, ending his pursuit of a doctorate from the University of Texas.

    Tyson was a lecturer in astronomy at the University of Maryland from 1986 to 1987 and in 1988, he was accepted into the astronomy graduate program at Columbia University, where he earned an MPhil degree in astrophysics in 1989, and a PhD degree in astrophysics in 1991 under the supervision of Professor R. Michael Rich.

    During his thesis research at Columbia University, Tyson became acquainted with Professor David Spergel at Princeton University, who visited Columbia University in the course of collaborating with his thesis advisor on the Galactic bulge typically found in spiral galaxies.

    Obviously an intelligent and accomplished man in his field. I doubt affirmative action could carry him that far. But he is smart in a very specialized field of physics- i.e astronomy and astrophysics. Even mathematicians in number theory forget non relevant math such as even basic 9th grade geometry . Similarly I dont think he knows too much about say inductors and capacitors which is covered in freshman physics. Thats ok. What is not ok is for accomplished individuals spouting their mouth off about things outside their expertise. Again he is a smart man but there are possibly a multitude of men with similar credentials in the country. Of course the media’s desperate need for Hollywoods black genius plays a role in this. But so do the mentally incompetant SJWS who usually dont know any science or math fall for any rubbish that he spouts.

    Virtue signalling is bad enough but knowledge signalling is equally cringeworthy. Like the former, knowledge signallers lack the very thing they like to project about themselves. All in all NDG makes stupid and ignorant people feel smart(hey i listened to his guy , did you) and noble( he is black, isnt that awesome)
    https://www.theonion.com/stephen-jay-gould-speaks-out-against-science-paparazzi-1819566141

    According to Gould, photographers stand poised around the clock at the entrance of virtually any facility where research is being conducted, including such science hotspots as the Mayo Clinic, labs at MIT and Princeton, and the Center For Astrophysical Research in Antarctica. The situation has gotten so bad, Gould said, that scientists are often forced to slip in through alternate entrances, and increased security is required at any conference they attend.

    “It doesn’t matter if you’re in the lab developing semiconductor heterostructures for high-speed opto-electronics or just going out for coffee, someone is always ready to shove a camera in your face,” said Gould, who rose to science stardom in 1972 when his theory of punctuated equilibria made him a household name. “As for field studies, I may as well forget them, unless I’m prepared to bring a full team of bodyguards along with me to the dig site.”

    Brian Greene, whose The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, And The Quest For The Ultimate Theory spent 32 weeks atop the New York Times bestseller list last year, is also fed up with the media.

    “Yes, I want people to read my work, but my personal life is my own business,” Greene said. “Just because I’m a scientist doesn’t mean I have to completely surrender my privacy. The public doesn’t have the right to know everything I do every second of the day.” Greene recently sued the German magazine Stern for publishing nude sunbathing photos of him and his girlfriend, Stanford University physicist Dr. Aileen Wang.

  111. @Anonymous

    Arab and Latin machismo doesnt preclude bursts of emotion either. Emotional repression is associated more with Anglos and other Northern Europeans . Russians while strictly northern European are a northern people who are also not averse to sentimentalism which Anglo men find a tad unbecoming.

  112. @Thea

    He wasn’t that loyal: he stayed for a year with Circe.

  113. Kronos says:
    @Carol

    I can think of a few reasons.

  114. @Carol

    There’s always been a status ladder for women as well, so goddesses fit well within that schema and in many ways would be encouraged by men(and of course, naturally are engaged in by women). Thus there was the saying that though it is likely that the arms of a duchess is no different from the arms of a common whore, it yet seems more rewarding to have conquered a duchess. Status games make up civilization.

    The idea of women as receivers of divine wisdom which then repeat it to others has an obvious sexual component as well. Japanese shrine maidens have their origin as shamanesses who also also engaged in trace-like states to provide divination. Often such things did involve sexual contact in some fashion, presumably of a priest or other entity “channeling” a spirit as well.

    An old, long-abandoned practice, had the miko engage in sexual intercourse with a kannushi, who would represent the kami. Any resulting child would be considered the kami’s baby (mikogami 御子神 ).

  115. Pericles says:
    @S. Anonyia

    but you could expect them to reasonable build timber-framed houses or low stone cottages like you see in the remote parts of the British Isles.

    Did they fell the timber, quarry the rocks, drag them to the building site as well?

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  116. @nymom

    Then why are all of those footballers talking about getting their mother a house as soon as they make some money…

    Steve is talking specifically about quarterbacks.

  117. Pericles says:
    @J.Ross

    posing for a picture to be taken by her friend, when a white woman walked up to her and started touching her hair without permission or explanation.

  118. @anon

    Maybe, but those huts would have really nice drapes.

    • LOL: Liza
  119. guest says:
    @Hank Archer

    And like 0% of the genius required to advance civilization.

  120. Imagine if the collapse of the birthrates in Europe happend a millenia earlier…

  121. Templar says:
    @Anonymouse

    Greek cities were loath to grant citizenship to people of out of town ancestry even if they had dwelt amongst their hosts for several generations. The word ~metic~ was used to describe such second class residents.
    After Alexander’s conquests many Hellenes could get full citizenship in Antioch or Alexandria or Seleucia or hundreds of smaller cities that Alexander and his successor Generals founded.
    This process probably drained a great deal of manpower out most Greek city states. The number of Greek speaking people overall seems to have soared although many non Greeks would have learnt to speak it for convenience and utility.

  122. anon[219] • Disclaimer says:

    Gwyneth Paltrow is fully enfranchised and creative. Therefore she is selling a candle with a certain, special scent…

    https://www.thecut.com/2020/01/gwyneth-paltrow-is-selling-a-vagina-scented-candle.html

    If women ran the world every grass hut would be lit…by vagina-scented candles!

  123. inertial says:
    @Hank Archer

    Tyson is of average intelligence but his wife is a smart cookie. They met at University of Texas. She went on to get a PhD in Mathematical Physics, whereas he left because of “racism.” Later she worked as an IT manager for Bloomberg (the company, not the person.) Smart!

    I bet she knows ten times more about astronomy and everything else than her husband.

  124. @Buzz Mohawk

    Imagine how much more advanced society would be today if women, who comprise half the world’s brain power, were socially & intellectually enfranchised from the beginning of civilization.

    To dovetail this with Steve’s post on education–i.e. Cal/Tex textbooks–one of the chunks of knowledge an educated person should acquire would be that this is not true. I.e. some reasonable model of how civilization works and is maintained.

    Minoritarianism–specifically the effort to justify the minoritarian ideology–is really a war against knowledge. People in the West now are significantly *dumber* across whole spheres social knowledge than two or three generations back, despite increased prosperity and the explosion of “information”.

  125. Bruno says:

    Btw, Boris Johnson reciting the Iliad in Greek for full 5 minutes is really impressive. There not many classics educated people around the world. Same with his speaking about rhetoric.

    Ancient Greek recitation :

    Grammar and rhetoric class :

    • Replies: @Bruno
  126. Yes. Well, women have had a more-than-full-time job until the day before yesterday just “keeping the kids alive.”

    So I don’t think they really had much time to, say, invent fracking.

    But I suspect they had plenty of time to worry about their hair.

  127. Bruno says:
    @Bruno

    The only mistake is that is a tricolon, probably a descending tricolon, but not with an anaphora but an epiphora because the recurrence appears at the end of the sentence …

  128. @BB753

    finally civilization crumbles and dies (50 years from now)

    Left to our own devices, the population would decline, allowing a number of centuries for people to realise their mistake and start having larger families (with or without government incentives).

    But when mass immigration is permitted, our low-fertility population is quickly replaced with foreigners, usually from countries that have a surplus of people because they are more fertile. The tragedy of feminist self-actualization is that it is not self-sustaining, and the society that chooses this route is quickly replaced with one that is much less feminist. By the time the sistahs realise that white Christian men are not the worst people in the world, it will be way too late to change course.

    Sometime in the present century, Muslims and Africans will outnumber whites in Western Europe; and the USA will become majority Latin.

    • Replies: @BB753
  129. @Thea

    Butler points out that a man or matron would’ve certainly expressed how slight Odysseus’s attachment to Penelope actually is in the narrative we have; the story has all sorts of signs of being written by a young, unmarried woman who was clever but perhaps not clever enough to bridge all of the inconsistencies, or to write confidently about people and relations removed from her own experiences.

    For Butler, the story shows signs of being two epic poems (compiled from other sources) by the authoress with distinct purposes cleaved together after the fact. The original poem is about Odysseus visiting the Phaeacians, with the story of his adventures as related by himself. The second is about Penelope and her suitors with the episode of Telemachus’s voyage to Pylos. The former was not written with latter in mind; but it is the latter which became the more important work in the whole, final scheme.

    The reasoning is that, for the young lady and her world, Penelope was a real, intractable problem; notoriously profligate, disliked and a sort of villainess in the general story milieu. So the Odyssey becomes very much about “rescuing” Penelope but as a way to rehabilitate her in epic poetry and making her worthy of a hero like Odysseus and the people who passed the story along It is in here that we really see a female sensibility of what is focused upon and what isn’t.

    • Replies: @Cortes
  130. keypusher says:
    @Thea

    Circe + 7 years with Calypso (admittedly, he couldn’t get away from her without divine assistance, but he still put out).

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Thea
  131. keypusher says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Helen’s elopement with Paris launched a thousand Argive ships against Troy; Agamemnon’s desire to bed Briseis, Achilles’ lawful prize, caused a nearly unhealable rift between them; and Hector’s desire to protect his wife from the dismal fate of being an Argive sex slave inspired him to fight Achilles to the death.

    1. True

    2. False; Agamemnon couldn’t stand being the only Greek leader without a prize after he had to give the priest’s daughter back. It was purely a status thing. He later swore, apparently truthfully, that he’d never slept with Briseis.

    3. False. Hector is ashamed because he refused to lead the Trojan army back into safety within the city walls when it was clear that Achilles was rejoining the fight; as a result, they got slaughtered.

    “Ah, woe is me, if I go within the gates and the walls Polydamas will be the first to put reproach upon me, for that he bade me lead the Trojans to the city during this fatal night, when goodly Achilles arose. Howbeit I hearkened not—verily it had been better far! But now, seeing I have brought the host to ruin in my blind folly, I have shame of the Trojans, and the Trojans’ wives with trailing robes, lest haply some other baser man may say: ‘Hector, trusting in his own might, brought ruin on the host.’ So will they say; but for me it were better far to meet Achilles man to man and slay him, and so get me home, or myself perish gloriously before the city. ”

    That’s in the poem; Homer cares about things like motivation. In the 2004 movie, IIRC there’s absolutely no explanation why Hector goes out to fight Achilles.

  132. PSR says:

    It has always been thus: men make life possible; women make it worth living.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
  133. @anon

    Thanks Ron for fixing the annoying behavior that pushed each comments reply to the right until they were almost off the screen.

  134. @Anonymous

    It is helpful that women freak out when they detect a spider or snake.

  135. J.Ross says:

    Mtf tranny demonstrates autistic over-competitiveness by physically attacking a reporter. But it happened in the Great White North, and you know the saying, if a tranny assaults a journalist in Canada, did it really happen?

  136. Peterike says:
    @Brutusale

    “Someone commented a few days ago about all the black QBs in the NFL playoffs. There’s a half of one left.”

    And the college football championship, taking place as I write, features two white quarterbacks. That’s in a league even more obsessed with promoting black QBs than the NFL. This has been a very bad year for the “inevitability” of blacks taking over all the leading quarterback spots.

  137. J.Ross says:
    @keypusher

    Also
    >all I can think of is seeing my wife again, and hearing her voi–
    >Dude, are those sirens? No way! I absolutely need to hear their voices even though it’s extremely dangerous and will require some of the finite resources on our lost ship! Stop doing productive work and tie me to this mast!

  138. MBlanc46 says:

    Lewis Mumford gives women credit for the Neolithic. Now, the Neolithic was not nothing. It was a monumental advance. But I wouldn’t want to live in it.

    • Replies: @Liza
  139. MBlanc46 says:
    @PSR

    Thanks. I’ll be using that.

  140. ‘Imagine how much more advanced society would be today if women, who comprise half the world’s brain power, were socially & intellectually enfranchised from the beginning of civilization.’

    Women tend to enforce the status quo. That raises the possibility that socially and intellectually enfranchising women would lead to less progress, not more.

  141. @Pericles

    Im not saying they actually did with any sort of frequency. Im just saying they could if their survival demanded it, for the same reason a 13 year old boy or a 65 year old man could, given enough time and effort.

    Obviously it’s more efficient to have men do it in a normal society. I’m just pointing out that women have survival instincts too, when pressed. No human will just lay down and not create a shelter for themselves if they have no other option.

    Also chopping timber is not that difficult depending on the type of tree. It’s pretty dangerous, but theoretically multiple women working together could chop and haul and finish the wood, then arrange the logs together into a simple wood-framed house.

    Same concept applies to quarrying, but it’s worth pointing out that not all stone cottages are made of quarried rock anyway. I’m not talking about a full medieval style house, talking about something like the Irish peasant homes where random differently-sized rocks found in the natural environment are stacked, and sometimes fixed with mud and plaster.

  142. bomag says:
    @Liza

    If there were no poor men, who would have been putting all that food on the table for aeons? Not everyone can be a great inventor or scientist.

    Smart people are quite capable of growing food.

    The inventor and scientists that matter are the utter outliers; the “point of the sword”. We maybe overlooked a few in history, and that is a loss. That’s one reason Cyril Burt was knighted for his IQ work: it allowed us to comb through everyone and find the few that would make a difference.

    But the smart have always sorted themselves out, and as long as there is a useful academy, the smart will quite often find their way to it. Cavalieri was plenty smart, and found his way to a Catholic monastery. Abel and Galois sought academic positions; Ramanujan wrote to the leading scholars of his time.

    • Replies: @Liza
  143. Thea says:
    @keypusher

    Yeah but for a Greek man who could visit temple prostitutes and have socially sanctioned mistresses it was more loyal than he had to be. He held a romantic vision of his wife that is distinctly Western.

    • Agree: keypusher
  144. @anon

    I pointed that out to a conventional feminist friend saying, “This building we are in now, and every building you have ever set foot in was built by men.”

  145. keypusher says:
    @Corvinus

    That’s idiotic, Dr. Lamarck. It’s good to have someone going against the grain in the comments, but that doesn’t mean you should post the first stupid troll thought that pops into your head.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  146. BB753 says:
    @James N. Kennett

    Latin and Arabs can barely sustain some form of civilization, though surely not on the same level as Europeans or Asians. Africans can’t.
    I bet China and South East Asia will thrive while Europe and America become civilizational backwaters.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
  147. Anon[262] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I used to love planetarium, very relaxing. Alas, I can’t visit them anymore. I fall asleep and snore. Same with movie theaters now, with the new, comfy seats. My wife gets tired of elbowing me.

  148. Anon[404] • Disclaimer says:

    One has to respect women as a necessary part of the species, but they are different creatures than men with substantially lower IQ on average. “Enfranchising” them has always been equated with destruction and chaos in myth for a reason. They don’t have a single characteristic that is superior to that of men with the exception of a haphazard-social-networking impulse. Contrary to the popularly held view, men are even better than women in the emotional realm (empathy, etc). As being good with that improves with IQ and the ability to patiently observe and analyze others before one speaks / acts.

    Let minorities hitch their horse to the gender divide and conquer strategy against Whites. What it means is that they will be dragged down whenever one of the numerous flawed concepts that they are using as weapons catastrophically fails. And they all will, one by one.

    As Jews do (and are doing now), minorities such as the one to which Tyson belongs will then attempt to escape responsibility by telling us they were on our side all along. Accepting that false reality will only doom us to the same repeated fate sooner than later. This is where men are also superior in the emotional realm: we are less susceptible to emotional manipulation and can resist such future attempts by our victimizers. Women are more prone to ignoring evidence of grand harm in order to maintain superficial social ties (the social network).

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  149. Liza says:
    @MBlanc46

    Lewis Mumford gives women credit for the Neolithic. Now, the Neolithic was not nothing. It was a monumental advance. But I wouldn’t want to live in it.

    They (those living during neolithic era) were suited to it; they adapted to it. But you can be sure they were saying, “I sure wouldn’t want to be living in the early stone age!”

    Every major advance spoils people. I know people (seriously) who think that having to walk up to the television set to change the channel is something no one should have to endure. We still watch our old fashioned cathode ray tube tv set and still have a rotary dial phone (an extension) in addition to the button type. I am not making this up. Why throw away things that still work.

  150. Liza says:
    @bomag

    Smart people are quite capable of growing food.

    Oh, I know. I didn’t mean that they would have been incapable. But guys with giant brains don’t want to. They want to do advanced larnin’ and studyin’

    Your second paragraph is interesting. I never thought of it that way – that only the outliers are the ones we know about today (for the most part).

  151. Bill says:
    @S. Anonyia

    I think the point is about inventing things, not building things.

    And the idea that men mostly do things to impress women is, um, incorrect, as you can see by examining the sorts of things men get excited about, virtually none of which women find even the least bit impressive.

  152. Cortes says:
    @Mister.Baseball

    Just how does one cleave something together?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  153. @Cortes

    Cleave means both divide and unite. I wonder if anybody ever slipped out of perjury rap by a judicious use of “cleave.”

    • Replies: @Cortes
  154. Cortes says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Thank you.

    And apologies to Mister.Baseball.

    • Replies: @Mister.Baseball
  155. Corvinus says:
    @keypusher

    I didn’t realize that my reasonable argument upset you so much.

    • Replies: @Keypusher
  156. Corvinus says:
    @Anon

    “One has to respect women as a necessary part of the species, but they are different creatures than men with substantially lower IQ on average.”

    James Flynn compared men and women on the Raven’s Progressive Matrices test, a test of abstract, logical reasoning. Setting the male score at 100, Flynn found that women scored the lowest in Australia (99.5), but in the other 4 nations Raven’s scores varied from 100.5 to 101.5. After presenting this data, he noted, “So they certainly equaled men, and perhaps were slightly above. This has been distorted in the news of my saying that women are incredibly more intelligent than men. As you can see, this somewhat goes beyond what was claimed.”

    “Enfranchising” them has always been equated with destruction and chaos in myth for a reason.”

    Not according to the men who ratified the 18th Amendment.

    “They don’t have a single characteristic that is superior to that of men with the exception of a haphazard-social-networking impulse.”

    Sources?

    “Contrary to the popularly held view, men are even better than women in the emotional realm (empathy, etc).”

    The reality is that research has shown that women are more empathic than men. Yet, women and men are equally forgiving. However, it is not clear whether empathy is more important to forgiveness for men or for women.

    “This is where men are also superior in the emotional realm: we are less susceptible to emotional manipulation and can resist such future attempts by our victimizers.”

    Sources?

  157. BB753 says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Now that even NASA has become a joke, I say let’s Gabon take over the space race, lol!

  158. @Cortes

    No worries. It’s a janus-word. My understanding is that it was once two separate, if similar sounding, old English words which converged as spelling and pronunciation of modern English solidified.

    It was a spur-of-the-moment word choice but perhaps not the best one. As cleave (in the general ‘adhere’/’unite’ sense) is supposed to communicate primarily a devotional or emotional attachment as well as being a part of this antantonym, it felt like a better word to portray Butler’s speculation about how personal he found the authoress’s work in bringing her two supposed epic poems halves together despite their internal contradictions; even if it isn’t normally (or maybe correctly for more prescriptivist types, ) used to describe mere crafting of physical or mental objects into a unified whole.

    • Replies: @Mister.Baseball
  159. @Mister.Baseball

    …and of course, I flub on ‘antantonym’- I meant ‘autantonym’.

  160. Corvinus says:
    @BB753

    “Well, we already know what would have happened “empowering” wymyn since the beginning of civilization: it would have withered and disappeared.”

    Wow, talk about sophistry.

    • Replies: @BB753
  161. @alt right moderate

    Where did they find the perfect Titania McGrath? Excellent stuff.

  162. BB753 says:
    @Corvinus

    You don’t believe your lying eyes, do you? Societal decay is right in front of our noses. You just have to notice it.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  163. Corvinus says:
    @BB753

    “You don’t believe your lying eyes, do you?”

    Who said that I don’t believe that we have a significant number of issues to address?

    “Societal decay is right in front of our noses.”

    You mean as a result of empowering women? Or are you onto a separate topic?

    • Replies: @BB753
  164. Anonymous[934] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymouse

    I suspect you mean Zeiss, not Leitz.

    Leitz made the Leica camera and microscopes. Carl Zeiss made optics for Rollei and Hasselblad cameras and much else.

  165. BB753 says:
    @Corvinus

    Empowering women is part of the problem. But the main culprit is liberalism.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  166. Corvinus says:
    @BB753

    “Empowering women is part of the problem.”

    Actually, that was a solution. You do realize we aren’t turning back the clock, so your protestations fall upon deaf ears.

    “But the main culprit is liberalism.”

    You mean the philosophy based on liberty and consent of the government? You mean the support of individual rights and capitalism? You mean the liberalism that became a distinct movement in the Age of Enlightenment?

    Wow, just wow.

    • Replies: @BB753
  167. BB753 says:
    @Corvinus

    “You mean the philosophy based on liberty and consent of the government? You mean the support of individual rights and capitalism? You mean the liberalism that became a distinct movement in the Age of Enlightenment?”

    Exactly, everything in the West has gone wrong since the Enlightenment.
    Scientific advancement, social justice, weren’t the result of the Enlightenment, but preceded it. Sadly, the masonic assault on Throne and Altar has led to the horrors, wars and moral and societal decay of the last two centuries. Destroying centuries old institutions which worked isn’t progress, it’s regression. I don’t believe in democracy or equality, individual rights or capitalism. Because they don’t work.
    Now you can go and faint on the sofa, clutching your pearls.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  168. Corvinus says:
    @BB753

    “Destroying centuries old institutions which worked isn’t progress, it’s regression. I don’t believe in democracy or equality, individual rights or capitalism. Because they don’t work.”

    Well, you are in the minority. Regardless, what are these “old institutions” that you await with bated breath their glorious return?

    Instead of democracy or equality, individual rights or capitalism, what do YOU prefer? Why?

    • Replies: @BB753
  169. BB753 says:
    @Corvinus

    Those old institutions, throne and altar, (look them up for yourself) the glory of late Medieval and early Renaissance times, won’t ever return. You cannot be a reactionary and not be a realist at the same time. Civilization in the West is doomed.
    I’d prefer anything to the political regime we have now. A benevolent dictatorship like Putin’s, Pétain’s or Franco’s, while not perfect, are much better.

  170. Corvinus says:

    “Those old institutions, throne and altar, (look them up for yourself) the glory of late Medieval and early Renaissance times, won’t ever return.”

    Nor should they.

    “Civilization in the West is doomed.”

    That would be your opinion.

    “I’d prefer anything to the political regime we have now. A benevolent dictatorship like Putin’s, Pétain’s or Franco’s, while not perfect, are much better.”

    They are/were dictatorships. Benevolence was only bestowed on supporters rather than detractors.

    • Replies: @BB753
  171. BB753 says:
    @Corvinus

    You’re wrong. There’s no point in arguing with a liberal like you who can’t handle the truth. Please don’t waste my time.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  172. Corvinus says:
    @BB753

    “You’re wrong. There’s no point in arguing with a liberal like you who can’t handle the truth. Please don’t waste my time.”

    Yet another poster on this fine blog who levies an accusation–a benevolent dictatorship like Putin’s, Pétain’s or Franco’s, while not perfect, are much better (than representative democracy)–with offering even a modicum of evidence. The fact of the matter is that the Franco regime, for example, pitted conservative, upper class Catholics against the middle class and working class non-Catholic elements. Any and all dissent was brutally crushed. Today’s citizenry does not tolerate such action. Note that I am not a liberal–rather, I am an educated married white man with children who is able to make up his own mind about matters involving race and politics.

    • Replies: @BB753
  173. BB753 says:
    @Corvinus

    As opposed to liberal regimes who also brutally crush any dissent. Just because you’re on the “right” side of history today, obsequiously licking the liberal hand wielding the whip, doesn’t mean you’re right. It just means you’re a lackey of the current regime, trolling people who think differently on internet forums.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  174. Corvinus says:
    @BB753

    “As opposed to liberal regimes who also brutally crush any dissent.”

    Regimes that may be liberal. And, at the very least, the people in those nations where there are constitutions have their liberties specifically outlined.

    “”Just because you’re on the “right” side of history today, obsequiously licking the liberal hand wielding the whip, doesn’t mean you’re right.”

    Assuredly, citizens who give their consent to be governed and who have worked to afford themselves freedoms are on the right side of history.

    “It just means you’re a lackey of the current regime, trolling people who think differently on internet forums.”

    Feel free to think differently, which is courtesy of those “liberal regimes” that you maliciously slight.

  175. Keypusher says:
    @Corvinus

    my reasonable argument

    I thought you were only pretending to be ignorant. Apologies.

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