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From Urban Dictionary:

retcon

(shortened form of RETroactive CONtinuity; first made popular in the comic book world)

1. (original meaning) Adding information to the back story of a fictional character or world, without invalidating that which had gone before.

2. (more common usage) Adding or altering information regarding the back story of a fictional character or world, regardless of whether the change contradicts what was said before.

From the New York Times Magazine:

The 1619 Project is a major initiative from The New York Times observing the 400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery. It aims to reframe the country’s history, understanding 1619 as our true founding, and placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are.

From the Washington Post, however:

Trump is rewriting the meaning of America. Literally.

By Max Boot, Columnist, August 14 at 5:04 PM

When critics of the Trump administration warn that it is transforming America into something dark and ugly, they are often accused of exaggerating. But in a pair of interviews on Tuesday, Ken Cuccinelli, the acting director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, admitted as much.

When asked on NPR whether the words inscribed on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty (“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore”) are “part of the American ethos,” Cuccinelli replied, “They certainly are — give me your tired and your poor who can stand on their own two feet and who will not become a public charge.” Later that day, on CNN, he said, “Of course, that poem was referring back to people coming from Europe where they had class-based societies, where people were considered wretched if they weren’t in the right class.”

That’s two rewrites in one day of a poem that for more than a century has defined the United States as a nation of immigrants, open to all. Not just European immigrants. Not just wealthy immigrants. All immigrants.

Is there room for both blacks to be at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are and for the huddled masses of wretched refuse to be at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are? If the country’s history is reframed to make the arrival of black slaves in 1619 “our true founding,” is there still room for Nation of Immigrants retconning too? There is a fundamental conflict between the “America Is Made Out of Cotton” and the “Emma Lazarus’s Poem Is Our Founding Document” schools of thought. Who is going to win this struggle for dominance?

 
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  1. That’s not who we are…

  2. I say we print a trillion dollars and let the NYT decide who to give it to with the understanding that they will finally shut up about “who we are.”

    • Replies: @Jack D
    That's not how it works. Even the Left has figured out that if reparations was a one time thing, it would result in the greatest boom in Cadillac sales in US history and then six months later everything would be the same as it is now. No, reparations means that whitey must pay and pay until equality is achieved (in other words, forever).

    Most importantly, the payment must not only be in cash but by removing whites (especially white males) from all position of authority in society where their mere presence is an assertion of privilege. Even when whites think they are well intentioned (which is not very often), they are still doing damage. Obama's election was a good start although in retrospect it was a little disappointing and Obama himself a little Uncle Tomish and too surrounded by white people (especially the Jewish kind) like Axelrod and Emmanuel. Holder and Lynch were the right idea but his whole cabinet should have looked like them. Hopefully President Harris will know what to do.
  3. Who invented the circulation of the blood?

    Who invented crushed peanuts, or the Super Soaker?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    One out of 3 ain't bad.

    I just checked google for "American Inventors" to see whether whites had been completely abolished yet. I was heartened to see that Edison and Bell are still hanging there, although their accomplishments pale (no pun intended) next to the vital hair straightening developments of their fellow top- teners Madam C J Walker and Garrett Morgan. Although there is nothing wrong with natural hair, as the legislatures of NY and CA have confirmed by law, for those who so choose, we need our conks.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=american+inventors
  4. The contributions of Africans to the United States have been, on balance, negative. There are a handful of musicians who did interesting work. But most African Americans were/are dead economic weight or worse.

    If Africans are so productive, and countries can get rich off of African slavery or other forms of exploitation of African labor, then shouldn’t Brazil now be much more prosperous than the US, since they received many times more slaves? Shouldn’t the antebellum South have been more advanced than the North?

    Anyway.

    Public service announcement that using the Brave browser automatically bypasses the NYT paywall so you don’t have to pay for your hate-reads. Also Brave has excellent tor support, which may become very useful at some point. And it was done by Brendan Eich who is a victim of political persecution. And who also reads Unz. Really, Brave is awesome.

    • Replies: @HammerJack

    The contributions of Africans to the United States have been, on balance, negative.
     
    That's the ugly truth of the matter, which no amount of "official propaganda" appears able to obscure. And let's be frank, it's a wild understatement.

    And thanks for the Brave plug. I hope it gains ground on the Evil Empire, though its road will be steep.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    the Brave browser automatically bypasses the NYT paywall so you don’t have to pay for your hate-reads.
     
    Can you get the crossword that way?
    , @Vinteuil
    My ony problem with the Brave browser is that it doesn't seem to show you what comments here are new.
  5. If the country history is reframed to make the arrival of black slaves in 1619 “our true founding,” is there still room for Nation of Immigrants retconning too?

    Remember that logical consistency is a white supremacist construct – the man is keeping the African-Americans down through logic and reasoning! We must choose the ‘truth’ over facts!

  6. Celebrate American Negro history:

    >Anthony Johnson (b. c. 1600 – d. 1670) was a black Angolan known for achieving freedom and wealth in the early 17th-century Colony of Virginia. He was one of the first African American property owners and had his right to legally own a slave recognized by the Virginia courts. Held as an indentured servant in 1621, he earned his freedom after several years, and was granted land by the colony.[1]

    He later became a successful tobacco farmer in Maryland. He attained great wealth after completing his term as an indentured servant, and has been referred to as “‘the black patriarch’ of the first community of Negro property owners in America”.[1] <

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_(colonist)

    • Replies: @jay-w
    Actually, I read somewhere that Johnson wasn't just any old slave-owner; he was the very first legally registered slave-owner in what is now Virginia.
    , @Corvinus
    I will do you one better.

    Re Negro John Punch, July 1640. “Whereas Hugh Gwyn hath...brought back from Maryland three servants formerly run away...the court doth therefore order that the three said servants shall receive the punishment of whipping and thirty stripes apiece one called Victor, a Dutchman, the other a Scotchman called James Gregory, shall first serve out their times with their master according to their Indentures, and one whole year apiece after the time of their service is expired...and after that service...to serve the colony for three whole years apiece, and that the third being a negro named
    John Punch shall serve his said master or his assigns for the time of his natural life here or elsewhere.”

    I will assume, at my own peril, that you are an educated (white) man. Please respond to this question--Why is this court case a precedent in the history of slavery in America? Focus on the difference in the punishments the white escapees and the black escapee had received.
  7. Max Boot’s next column: LOOK HERE SCHVARTZES: YOU’D STILL BE PICKING COTTON IF IT WASN’T FOR MY ANCESTORS

    • LOL: BB753
  8. Looks like an opportunity for some High Comedy coming our way soon. Just don’t laugh out loud.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    Totally!

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/75/0d/bf/750dbfa22de6d080599c3e63e3849950.jpg
    , @TomSchmidt
    Or stop applauding.
  9. Since we all concede that Google has its finger on the pulse of American history and pop culture, let’s see what today’s Google Doodle is…

    It would have been the 124th birthday of Ignacio Anaya. Why is he famous? Well he invented

    [MORE]
    nachos.

    I weep.

    • LOL: bruce county
  10. The truth is that white peoples have contributed nothing to America any good

    we need white people right now to do the work of racial and economic justice

    https://www.newsweek.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-white-people-do-work-pod-save-america-1454579?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

    Read Nikole Hannah Jones

    • Replies: @El Dato

    "There's a reason Donald Trump is using racism as a cudgel, because it's how he gets away with his corruption. That's how he steals the bag," Ocasio-Cortez said. "He's going to use racism. The reason he's trying to center issues of race, of immigration, etc. is to sink the economic agenda. He's trying to eclipse it. And the only reason that has power is because we refuse to talk about. And so race is going to be an issue, and the key is whether we're going to allow him to define that conversation, or if we're going to insert ourselves into that space and define that conversation."
     
    This doesn't make any sense.

    Except as a way to overload people's short-term memory buffers with memes so that you can pretend you said something afterwards.

    I would force candidates to draw mind maps and annotated block diagrams with arrows showing causality and relations on huge, beautiful blackboards (the old-school black ones with real excellent chalk bought from that japanese shop that closed in 2014) ON CAMERA so they can clarify what they think. That's how it is done in any context that goes beyond self-congratulatory roundtable bullshit emissions.

    If the result is a horrendous mass that looks like it's been generated by a toddler or a hypey marketing executive, a public flogging shall ensue.

    , @MEH 0910

    Read Nikole Hannah Jones
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikole_Hannah-Jones

    Nikole Hannah-Jones (born April 9, 1976)[1][2] is an American investigative journalist[3] known for her coverage of civil rights in the United States. In April 2015, she became a staff writer for The New York Times.[4]

    ******
    Hannah-Jones grew up in Waterloo, Iowa, to father Milton Hannah, who is African-American, and mother Cheryl A. Novotny, who is of Czech and English descent.[5]

    ******
    In early 2015, Nikole Hannah-Jones, along with Ron Nixon, Corey Johnson, and Topher Sanders, began dreaming of creating the Ida B. Wells Society for Investigative Reporting.[29] This organization was launched in Memphis, Tennessee in 2016, with the purpose of promoting investigative journalism, which is the least common type of reporting.[29] Following in the footsteps of Ida B. Wells, this society encourages minority journalists to expose injustices perpetuated by the government and defend people who are susceptible to being taken advantage of.[29] This organization was created with much support from the Open Society Foundations, Ford Foundation, and CUNY Graduate School of Journalism.[29]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_B._Wells

    Ida Bell Wells-Barnett (July 16, 1862 – March 25, 1931) was an African-American investigative journalist, educator, and an early leader in the civil rights movement. She was one of the founders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP).[1] She arguably became the most famous black woman in America, during a life that was centered on combating prejudice and violence, who fought for equality for African Americans, especially women.[2]
     
    Nikole Hannah-Jones adopts the moniker Ida Bae Wells on Twitter:

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones?lang=eng
    https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1000118161574977536/MJ-FExjk_400x400.jpg

    Ida Bae Wells
    @nhannahjones

    Reporter @nytmag covering race in the U.S. from 1619-present//AKA The Beyoncé of Journalism//Co-founder idabwellssociety.org //smart and thuggish//

     

    , @Prof. Woland
    If only there was a way to make it so it was the African slaves and people like (((Boot))) that started democracy here and that this was all their idea instead of just being carried along like a cultural sack of potatoes for the last 400 years. No Max, you unwelcome unneeded twit, 1,000,000 years can go by and we will never let you take that from us and there is nothing you can ever do to change it.

    I will give this to you Max, Jews own the Old Testament and no one can ever take that from them either. You can take pride in that. I do too. But as the fake Russian that you are you are probably quite aware of the tale of the Master and the Margarita. Retconning history does not work in the long run and all you do is make enemies of the worst kind. By playing with other people's past all you are playing with fire.
  11. Did Howard Zinn already do all this crap years ago?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    What I remember Howard Zinn doing mainly was over-focusing on a handful of stories, some true but insignificant, some probably lies or incredible, pretending no other country had similar stories, and then aping Al Pacino in Justice For All. What Max Boot is doing here is orders of magnitude less serious, intellectual, and honest than Zinn's shtick.
    , @Pericles
    Invader Zinn.
  12. Is there room for both blacks to be at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are and for the huddled masses of wretched refuse to be at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are? If the country’s history is reframed to make the arrival of black slaves in 1619 “our true founding,” is there still room for Nation of Immigrants retconning too? Who is going to win this struggle for symbolic dominance?

    The Jews have outsmarted themselves on this one! White trying to erase the historical foundation of America, they have ensured that the plantation has supplanted Ellis Island. Once the narrative is black, there’s no going back.

    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
    And the timing is now perfect for the Nation of Islam to make common cause with Ilhan Omar to point out the role of Jewish slave traders in supplying the pipeline of slaves.

    Oops, their mascots/pets/battering rams against white gentiles are slipping the leash contrary to plan.
  13. Are Metropolitan Democrats REALLY that afraid the American blacks won’t vote or vote Republican? I’m firmly convinced they’re afraid more of the former than latter.

    Historically, Republican strategists have tried to win some of the Black vote for decades but to no avail. Does anyone think Trump has a chance of picking off Black Democrat’s on a “America First” economic agenda?

  14. The future of North America will play out depending on what narrative is chosen.

    1. America is about black people: every city becomes Detroit, whites as tax cattle.
    2. America is about immigrants: we end up with a population of 1 billion and an average IQ of 90. We are India or Brazil, if we are lucky.
    3. America is about a plucky and select band of upstarts and pioneers taming a wilderness and building a civilization: We find new challenges and new frontiers, and unspool a future worthy of our ancestors.

    Let’s do all we can to make sure these narratives stay separate and pure. I deplore narrative mixing. I tire of people who hopped on a jet airplane (invented by whites, btw) arriving in this country, watching football on Sunday, visiting Disneyland, and acting as if they are part of the same culture that hacked a civilization out of the wilderness. I tire of the most pathetic African tinkerers being held up as great inventors. You are not an American, Sanjay, neither are you , D’*, and you never will be. Your blue passport makes you a USian, but paperwork is not DNA. The days when we were flattered by your imitation of us are long past.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite

    I tire of people who hopped on a jet airplane (invented by whites, btw) arriving in this country, watching football on Sunday, visiting Disneyland, and acting as if they are part of the same culture that hacked a civilization out of the wilderness.
     
    Yep. People like Max Boot.
    , @Jack D
    I'm not sure I understand what you want. You apparently don't want non-whites to attempt to imitate white people and adopt their customs but I assume you don't want them acting all non-whitish and shitting in the street either. I know that you first choice would be for them all to leave so we could get back to the day (1619?) when Americans were all white and Anglo-Saxon, but assuming for the sake of argument that is not in the cards, isn't assimilation better than the alternative?

    I realize it affronts your sense of honor for people who just stepped off the boat yesterday to be treated as your equal, but you know in your heart of hearts that they are not the same - isn't that enough? In the case of non-whites, they don't even have to wear yellow arm bands or anything for you to pick them out an non-Founding Stock. Others - Jew, Italians, etc. you can usually just pick out from their names or their nose (pick OUT from their noses, I'm not suggesting that you pick their noses) and you can not invite them to your tailgate parties. Isn't that good enough? Isn't it better that they spend their time at Disneyland instead of baking the "special" kind of matzoh like they did in the old days?
    , @anon
    If you want to keep the narrative pure you have to keep the DNA pure. Exactly what is pure America DNA?
    The answer is of course, there is no such thing as pure American DNA.
    I can trace some but not all of my ancestors to the 18th century in the Appalachians.
    Since I can't trace back to Jamestown or Plymouth am I not a pure American?
    If I have other ancestors that came more recently am I not a pure American?
    If Neil Armstrong has even one ancestor that came after 1900 is he not an American?
    You need to focus on behavior, not DNA, in dealing with people.
    The definiton of an American is anyone who is a legal citizen. You may not like them, but they are Americans whether you like it or not.
    You should also consider practical politics. A political movement, or an army, that appeals to all legal Americans has a chance of winning. A movement or army made up of "all people with DNA that Simple Song approves of,"has no chance of winning.
  15. @Johnny789
    Looks like an opportunity for some High Comedy coming our way soon. Just don't laugh out loud.

    Totally!

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    It never gets more bizarre than people bringing up the fate of the indigenous peoples of the Americas as an argument *for* uncontrolled immigration.
  16. Boot likely knows better, intellectually, but he needs to make a few bucks. His articles are like remedial English lit courses. Now I have a better understanding of who the “wretched refuse” are. Wretched are the little bootsies!

  17. I confess that I don’t like the smell
    Of their using our goddess to tell
    Of their exodus here
    From the shtetls so drear.
    The poem’s a retcon as well.

  18. Anonymous[166] • Disclaimer says:

    Here’s the money quote:

    They sometimes want us to pretend that he was not elected president, but he was elected president. And our job is to figure out why, and how, and to hold the administration to account. If you’re independent, that’s what you do. The same newspaper that this week will publish the 1619 Project, the most ambitious examination of the legacy of slavery ever undertaken in [inaudible] newspaper, to try to understand the forces that led to the election of Donald Trump.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/new-york-times-meeting-transcript.html

  19. Only one way to settle this: a boxing match between Ta-Nehisi “Black Body” Coates and Suketu “Diamonds” Mehta!

    • Agree: Kronos
  20. “American slavery began 400 years ago this month.” ???

    I think this statement is exceedingly disrespectful to Native Americans!
    I can pretty much guarantee you that slavery in America goes back at least 10,000 years.

    • Agree: Colin Wright, fish
  21. • Replies: @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/DanaGoldstein/status/1162414439032926208
    , @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/DanaGoldstein/status/1162432327903055872
  22. • Replies: @kaganovitch
    Grateful to work at the place that published the 1619 project; grateful to colleagues like @nhannahjones and the team @NYTmag who made this happen. Please read every word.

    Just change your name to Dana Duck and be done with it.
    , @Bill Jones
    Every. Fucking. Time.
  23. This 1619 Project invites the creation of a “1935 Project”, which would reframe 1935 as the “true founding” of America’s intellectual establishment, that being the year in which the Frankfurt School relocated to New York City.

    • Agree: SunBakedSuburb
  24. The 1619 Project is a major initiative from The New York Times observing the 400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery. It aims to reframe the country’s history, understanding 1619 as our true founding, and placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are.

    So long, 1607….Farewell, 1620……

  25. @newrouter
    Celebrate American Negro history:

    >Anthony Johnson (b. c. 1600 – d. 1670) was a black Angolan known for achieving freedom and wealth in the early 17th-century Colony of Virginia. He was one of the first African American property owners and had his right to legally own a slave recognized by the Virginia courts. Held as an indentured servant in 1621, he earned his freedom after several years, and was granted land by the colony.[1]

    He later became a successful tobacco farmer in Maryland. He attained great wealth after completing his term as an indentured servant, and has been referred to as "'the black patriarch' of the first community of Negro property owners in America".[1] <

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_(colonist)

    Actually, I read somewhere that Johnson wasn’t just any old slave-owner; he was the very first legally registered slave-owner in what is now Virginia.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    Yeah, history can be “problematic” at times.

    https://compote.slate.com/images/188c73b1-c7ef-4fd9-a446-1d93aa00c77e.jpg
  26. NPR is nothing but propaganda, for example “When asked on NPR whether the words inscribed on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty”

    Fake news. The Statue of Liberty was a gift from France for abolishing slavery, which is why she has chains around her ankles. Several plaques were added to the base years later, including the one quoted about immigrants, who arrived legally at Ellis Island.

    But I understand that a Russian born propagandist like Boot who loves promoting war and hate may not know this. I will not mention his religious background lest I be called an anti-Semite.

  27. Sailer’s Folly–Whenever there is some pattern to be NOTICED, despite historians, economics, sociologists, and political scientists having explained it clearly and concisely in the past, it is done in a manner that is mind-numbingly stupefying.

    The only retCONing going on here is done compliments of our dear author by way of his false premise. Nations have several beginning points, i.e. “true foundings”, in distinct areas. A striking implication in those various “true foundings” is how our American society is unified in terms of an implicit (tacit practices) ethos, as well as a division across historical periods and geographic regions through an explicit (our values and the behaviors guided by them) ethos. From this framework, the year 1619 signifies America’s “true founding” as a nation that was separated according to race by way of the “peculiar institution”. The year 1883 signifies America’s “true founding” as a nation that was coming into its own through an amalgamation of ethnic groups. Interwoven here is how enslaved Africans and newcomers to our land both shared a fierce independence to keep alive their past heritages, as well as a resignation to succumb to the forces of assimilation and accommodation by way of their shared values–self-direction, self-reliance, and self-expression. In a way, the African and European immigrant experiences collided–both experienced hardship and disdain from the native population, yet overcame those privations to forge something that was the envy of the civilized world. Their separate stories is interwoven into the fabric of our American ethos.

    “Americans are so enamored with equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom”.–Alexis de Tocqueville

    “There is an emotional constitution that Americans has. There is an emotional reality that we all share that we all share like the New Colossus.”–Stephen Colbert

    “America Is Made Out of Cotton”.

    “Sugar candy”, Mr. Sailer. It’s sugar candy.

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @syonredux
    Come on, you must be a parody account......Nobody's that silly.....
    , @Alfa158
    Try re-reading Steve’s post.
    It is the NYT that is reporting that America had only one true founding, namely the beginning of slavery, not Steve. Steve appears to be agreeing with you and raising questions about the validity of the idea of a single founding. He doesn’t even bother going into the ludicrous idea that “the contributions of black Americans” are “at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are”.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhjyuDZjGU
    , @fish
    Whew.......thank god Corby dropped by from "Progressive Marketing" to set us straight!


    Bang up job you lads are doing down there!
    , @95Theses

    as well as a resignation to succumb to the forces of assimilation
     
    That's a hoot. Blacks have resisted assimilation every step of the way, and the simple proof of that is the near-universal rejection of anything which bears the scent of Whiteness. For where and when Blacks fail to measure up, the excuse for their failure is blamed on "White privilege".

    They ought to be thankful their ancestors were brought here in the first instance. No, slavery isn't the best state of affairs, but being here in America sure worked out well for the descendants of slaves.

    In the words of Washington Post correspondent, Keith Richburg, reporting from Africa in the 90s, "There but for the grace of God go I."

  28. What about the Spanish in 1521 in the Carolinas?

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    Wow, a slaving expedition yet. And a full hundred years before the English.

    Daresay the NYT will ignore the Latino naughtiness just as it ignores modern-day Brasil. Only Anglos (and those resembling Anglos) get The Treatment.

    , @Kronos
    Or about 1492, when Columbus landed in the New World.
    , @David
    Cabeza de Vaca mentions serving as a slave himself, and refers to others serving as slaves, some white, some Indian. He makes slavery appear to be commonplace among American natives.

    We asked how the living Christians fared. Badly, they replied; the boys and some of the Indian men enlivened their dreary idleness by constantly kicking, cuffing, and cudgeling the three slaves; such was the life they led.
     
    His Adventures in the Unknown Interior of America is the best if not the only account of Indian culture before the onset of European diseases.
    , @dr kill
    Exactly. It will be another 100 years before Florida will be part of the USA for as long as it was part of Spain.
  29. @newrouter
    Celebrate American Negro history:

    >Anthony Johnson (b. c. 1600 – d. 1670) was a black Angolan known for achieving freedom and wealth in the early 17th-century Colony of Virginia. He was one of the first African American property owners and had his right to legally own a slave recognized by the Virginia courts. Held as an indentured servant in 1621, he earned his freedom after several years, and was granted land by the colony.[1]

    He later became a successful tobacco farmer in Maryland. He attained great wealth after completing his term as an indentured servant, and has been referred to as "'the black patriarch' of the first community of Negro property owners in America".[1] <

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_(colonist)

    I will do you one better.

    Re Negro John Punch, July 1640. “Whereas Hugh Gwyn hath…brought back from Maryland three servants formerly run away…the court doth therefore order that the three said servants shall receive the punishment of whipping and thirty stripes apiece one called Victor, a Dutchman, the other a Scotchman called James Gregory, shall first serve out their times with their master according to their Indentures, and one whole year apiece after the time of their service is expired…and after that service…to serve the colony for three whole years apiece, and that the third being a negro named
    John Punch shall serve his said master or his assigns for the time of his natural life here or elsewhere.”

    I will assume, at my own peril, that you are an educated (white) man. Please respond to this question–Why is this court case a precedent in the history of slavery in America? Focus on the difference in the punishments the white escapees and the black escapee had received.

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
    Might it have to do with contracts? The first two had signed indenture agreements. I doubt Punch kept his paperwork.
    , @Peter Frost
    In practice, the difference in punishment was almost nonexistent. The captured servants were forced to serve out the remainder of their indentured servitude plus an additional four years. The term of an indenture was typically 4 to 7 years. So they would have been in their thirties when finally freed. Keep in mind that "freedom" meant being a middle-aged single man with no home, no money, and no property.

    Life expectancy was about 35 years in 17th-century England and less than 25 years in colonial Virginia. Of course, these figures are inflated by infant mortality. On the other hand, life expectancy would have been significantly lower for a poor single man. I would estimate that the men in question either died before finishing their servitude or lived less than five years afterwards as "free" men.

    , @Hamlet's Ghost
    Perhaps the difference in productivity between white indentured servants and black ones led to the decision to hold blacks for their entire lives to make an investment in bringing them worthwhile.
    , @Jack D
    One possible distinction is that the other two are mentioned as having Indentures (written contracts detailing their term of service) while Punch doesn't seem to have one. Even though Negro servitude was probably not (it's not entirely clear) for life in the earliest days, blacks weren't voluntarily signing up for it the same way that whites did back in Scotland - he was probably kidnapped from Africa.

    Another possibility is that Punch did something more heinous than the other two while he was at large (theft, rape, etc.) and therefore the court thought that he deserved greater punishment. Maybe the court thought that they were doing him a favor by not mentioning his vile act in writing, which might have gotten him lynched or maybe,while proof was lacking, the court believed it to be true anyway and reflected it in his sentence without alluding to it.

    Punch was supposedly an ancestor of Barack Obama (on his mother's side - Punch had a white wife (a fellow servant) and at some point the some of the Punch/Bunch(e) clan crossed the color line). Another Bunche was African-American diplomat and Nobel Peace Prize winner Ralph Bunche. So despite his slavery, Punch's descendants on this side of the Atlantic probably did a whole lot better than his brother's kids back home - that's 2 Nobel Prize winners to 0.
    , @Curmudgeon
    All "slaves" were indentured servants. This was a judgement for breach of indenture. Whether the punishment was equal is unknown to us, and whether the punishment fit the crime, is also unknown to us. Differential punishments were common then, and common now.

    In Johnson's case, he had acquired a black slave, John Casor, from another owner, and after a short period of time, was urged by his White neighbors to free Casor, as he had served his indenture. Johnson freed Casor, then sued his neighbors claiming that he was pressured into freeing Casor, and that he, as the slave owner, should be allowed to determine the length of indenture. He was successful. Casor was re-enslaved. Johnson's two White slaves, and all other slave were affected. It was the beginning of slavery for life.

    What no one wants to talk about is the approximately 2.5 million Europeans enslaved by the Corsairs raiding coastal towns and villages throughout the Mediterranean and Black Seas as well as along the Atlantic coast as far north as Iceland. While some were ransomed back, most were slaves for life. White women were a prize for harems - essentially sex slaves. Can't talk about that though, it would be Islamophobic.
  30. When critics of the Trump administration warn that it is transforming America into something dark and ugly,…

    People like the deceitful, slimy, and odious war-monger Max Boot have transformed America into something dark and ugly. If there is an Emoji for “dick-head”, it probably looks like Max Boot.

    I’m sick and tired of loathsome interlopers like Boot telling me “who we are”.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    https://img3.stockfresh.com/files/p/popaukropa/m/30/8164670_stock-vector-penis-angry-emoji-dick-emotion-aggressive-isolated.jpg
  31. • Replies: @syonredux

    In the days and weeks to come, we will publish essays demonstrating that nearly everything that has made America exceptional grew out of slavery.
     
    Let's see:

    Airplane? Slavery

    The Short Story? Slavery

    Information Theory? Slavery

    Morse-Vail Telegraph? Slavery

    Vector Calculus? Slavery

    Integrated Circuit? Slavery

    Yep, checks out. Slavery's responsible for all of it.....

    , @Herbert West
    I’ve read many Civil War histories and everyone of them emphasized how backwards the slave south was economically, in 1861–vastly fewer factories, fewer railroads, less entrepreneurship, less wealth, inferior education, etc. Every economic historian agrees that slavery had a retarding effect on the southern economy. And the lasting legacy of slavery, African-Americans, continues to do so to this day.

    At least one can make a serious case that immigration was good for America; lots of (European) immigrants turned into great inventors and entrepreneurs for America. That’s no reason to let 80 IQ illegal aliens remain here, but at least there are SOME facts to support the pro-immigration case. But what the NYT is peddling is a pack of lies from start to finish.
    , @syonredux

    In the days and weeks to come, we will publish essays demonstrating that nearly everything that has made America exceptional grew out of slavery.
     
    Yep.Everyone knows that slavery is the key to national greatness. That's why Brazil is a global powerhouse and the USA's chief rival for global hegemon......
    , @El Dato
    It sounds very ominous.

    The big reveal at the end of a bad TV series and f*ck the plot holes. It was slavery all along.

    An American Instrumentality Project

    I suppose the plan is to have at least 3 major cities burnt down by mid-2020 to increase awareness.

    Maybe the NYT is actually itself managed by Putin himself.
    , @fish
    Wake me when Mara gets to the part about Egyptian pedal powered helicopters.....the ones dat dey stole from Aprica.
    , @newrouter
    How shall I say it?: Just so gay!
    , @newrouter
    Who sold America the slaves in 1619? Jews, Negros?
  32. I stumbled across a quote recently that seemed appropriate for a lot of what I read happening in America and the WEIRD world in general.

    If we open a quarrel between past and present, we shall find that we have lost the future.
    — Winston Churchill

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @res
    Thanks. That's a good quote. It opens the third paragraph of his "Their Finest Hour" speech:
    https://www.fiftiesweb.com/usa/winston-churchill-finest-hour.htm

    Are there any older versions? The basic concept seems like something the Greeks or Romans would have recognized.
    , @res
    Thanks. That's a good quote. It opens the third paragraph of his "Their Finest Hour" speech:
    https://www.fiftiesweb.com/usa/winston-churchill-finest-hour.htm

    Are there any older versions? The basic concept seems like something the Greeks or Romans would have recognized.
    , @res
    Thanks. That's a good quote. It opens the third paragraph of his "Their Finest Hour" speech:
    https://www.fiftiesweb.com/usa/winston-churchill-finest-hour.htm

    Are there any older versions? The basic concept seems like something the Greeks or Romans would have recognized.
  33. The Times might be better advised to launch “The 2019 Project” and get a clue about the here and now

  34. If the country’s history is reframed to make the arrival of black slaves in 1619 “our true founding,” is there still room for Nation of Immigrants retconning too?

    Yeah, I think there is. They’ll say that from 1619 to 1880 the blacks built this country up to the greatness that from 1881 on drew in the white ethnics.

    That’s why Haiti was always the first choice of Italians and Jews who were willing to sail about 1500 miles farther than the route to New York.

    • Replies: @bruce county
    They might have had the filthy mud eating savages hadn't slaughtered the French colonizers there.
  35. @Corvinus
    Sailer’s Folly--Whenever there is some pattern to be NOTICED, despite historians, economics, sociologists, and political scientists having explained it clearly and concisely in the past, it is done in a manner that is mind-numbingly stupefying.

    The only retCONing going on here is done compliments of our dear author by way of his false premise. Nations have several beginning points, i.e. "true foundings", in distinct areas. A striking implication in those various "true foundings" is how our American society is unified in terms of an implicit (tacit practices) ethos, as well as a division across historical periods and geographic regions through an explicit (our values and the behaviors guided by them) ethos. From this framework, the year 1619 signifies America's "true founding" as a nation that was separated according to race by way of the "peculiar institution". The year 1883 signifies America's "true founding" as a nation that was coming into its own through an amalgamation of ethnic groups. Interwoven here is how enslaved Africans and newcomers to our land both shared a fierce independence to keep alive their past heritages, as well as a resignation to succumb to the forces of assimilation and accommodation by way of their shared values--self-direction, self-reliance, and self-expression. In a way, the African and European immigrant experiences collided--both experienced hardship and disdain from the native population, yet overcame those privations to forge something that was the envy of the civilized world. Their separate stories is interwoven into the fabric of our American ethos.

    "Americans are so enamored with equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom".--Alexis de Tocqueville

    "There is an emotional constitution that Americans has. There is an emotional reality that we all share that we all share like the New Colossus."--Stephen Colbert

    "America Is Made Out of Cotton”.

    "Sugar candy", Mr. Sailer. It's sugar candy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkIyBC9SO3Q

    Come on, you must be a parody account……Nobody’s that silly…..

    • Replies: @Icy Blast
    I am also beginning to think that "Corvinus" is attempting parody, like "Tiny Duck." He's just not as good at being ridiculous.
    , @Mr. Anon
    Lots of people are that silly. And stupid. Corvinus is one of them.
    , @theoldnorth
    I’ve said it before. Corvinus is the middlebrow Tiny Duck.
    , @Corvinus
    No parody, just the stone cold truth. I don't expect you or Icy Blast or theoldnorth or Mr. Anon to be able to intellectually handle it.
  36. Americans invented slavery 400 years ago?

    You white people think you invented everything first.

    Blacks were building the Pyramids with slaves when you Americans were still living in tipis. And what about Mansa Musa? You think anyone would work in a gold mine voluntarily?

    • LOL: Twodees Partain
  37. There is a fundamental conflict between the “America Is Made Out of Cotton” and the “Emma Lazarus’s Poem Is Our Founding Document” schools of thought. Who is going to win this struggle for dominance?

    It’s like Alien vs Predator: whoever wins, we lose.

  38. Schrodinger’s America: Both terrible because its full of evil racists and wonderful because of slaves.

  39. @Corvinus
    Sailer’s Folly--Whenever there is some pattern to be NOTICED, despite historians, economics, sociologists, and political scientists having explained it clearly and concisely in the past, it is done in a manner that is mind-numbingly stupefying.

    The only retCONing going on here is done compliments of our dear author by way of his false premise. Nations have several beginning points, i.e. "true foundings", in distinct areas. A striking implication in those various "true foundings" is how our American society is unified in terms of an implicit (tacit practices) ethos, as well as a division across historical periods and geographic regions through an explicit (our values and the behaviors guided by them) ethos. From this framework, the year 1619 signifies America's "true founding" as a nation that was separated according to race by way of the "peculiar institution". The year 1883 signifies America's "true founding" as a nation that was coming into its own through an amalgamation of ethnic groups. Interwoven here is how enslaved Africans and newcomers to our land both shared a fierce independence to keep alive their past heritages, as well as a resignation to succumb to the forces of assimilation and accommodation by way of their shared values--self-direction, self-reliance, and self-expression. In a way, the African and European immigrant experiences collided--both experienced hardship and disdain from the native population, yet overcame those privations to forge something that was the envy of the civilized world. Their separate stories is interwoven into the fabric of our American ethos.

    "Americans are so enamored with equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom".--Alexis de Tocqueville

    "There is an emotional constitution that Americans has. There is an emotional reality that we all share that we all share like the New Colossus."--Stephen Colbert

    "America Is Made Out of Cotton”.

    "Sugar candy", Mr. Sailer. It's sugar candy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkIyBC9SO3Q

    Try re-reading Steve’s post.
    It is the NYT that is reporting that America had only one true founding, namely the beginning of slavery, not Steve. Steve appears to be agreeing with you and raising questions about the validity of the idea of a single founding. He doesn’t even bother going into the ludicrous idea that “the contributions of black Americans” are “at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are”.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    I wish we could get Buffalo Joe to come back and Corvy the chirping retard to sign off permanently.
  40. If the country’s history is reframed to make the arrival of black slaves in 1619 “our true founding,” is there still room for Nation of Immigrants retconning too? There is a fundamental conflict between the “America Is Made Out of Cotton” and the “Emma Lazarus’s Poem Is Our Founding Document” schools of thought. Who is going to win this struggle for dominance?

    I don’t think it matters, just so long as it wasn’t the white Christians from northwestern Europe who did it in the 18th century.

    These people’s sin: they covet what they could never create.

  41. They always like to say the legacy of slavery affects blacks to this day. Well it sure as hell affects Whites. Whites have had to, and will continue to have to, live with the consequences of an unassimilable legacy slave population.

    They say no amount of dollars could be given as reparations. Well I doubt they could accurately tabulate the costs Whites have endured in lost property value, moving expenses, taxes, affirmative action, physical harm, etc., etc. And this is not even factoring in the death and the destruction of the war in 1861.

    I don’t know of any other people who have tried to make amends for slavery on par with what American Whites have done. And yet the more we do, the more they demand. We should be more like the Arabs on this issue.

    • Agree: 95Theses
    • Replies: @bomag

    Whites have had to, and will continue to have to, live with the consequences of an unassimilable legacy slave population.
     
    Apt summary.

    And we are hectored to do even more, in service to some vague day in the future when Blacks will all of a sudden become equal. I feel like we're building a temple to a Sky god, in hopes of luring him to Earth; but he never shows up, so we are told to build even higher and more lavishly in order to please. A few of us are expressing skepticism about the existence of such a god, but the priesthood is on it and suppresses such chatter.
    , @95Theses
    Hands down best comment on this thread.
  42. Who is going to win the struggle for dominance? At this point, they don’t care, so long as whites lose.

  43. 1619 is the perfect sweet spot for framing the founding of the country. It makes it old enough so that US-Anglo history is entirely tainted by slave libel. But if you go any further back, it’s starts to get into that touchy aspect of North American history — the part where Carlos Slims’ ancestors wiped out much of the male line in Central and South America.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    Actually, I think Carlos Slim's ancestors were trading rugs in some Middle Eastern bazaar in 1619.

    But your point is taken. If you pull back too far, slavery is just a universal institution of mankind. The only reason it seems anomolous at all in America is because Northern Europe at that time was the only region of the world where slavery wasn't practiced.
  44. @jay-w
    Actually, I read somewhere that Johnson wasn't just any old slave-owner; he was the very first legally registered slave-owner in what is now Virginia.

    Yeah, history can be “problematic” at times.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    I'm sensing a potential Chris Rock/Morgan Freeman vehicle here
  45. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/MaraGay/status/1161401966167298054

    In the days and weeks to come, we will publish essays demonstrating that nearly everything that has made America exceptional grew out of slavery.

    Let’s see:

    Airplane? Slavery

    The Short Story? Slavery

    Information Theory? Slavery

    Morse-Vail Telegraph? Slavery

    Vector Calculus? Slavery

    Integrated Circuit? Slavery

    Yep, checks out. Slavery’s responsible for all of it…..

    • LOL: bomag
  46. @SimpleSong
    The contributions of Africans to the United States have been, on balance, negative. There are a handful of musicians who did interesting work. But most African Americans were/are dead economic weight or worse.

    If Africans are so productive, and countries can get rich off of African slavery or other forms of exploitation of African labor, then shouldn't Brazil now be much more prosperous than the US, since they received many times more slaves? Shouldn't the antebellum South have been more advanced than the North?

    Anyway.

    Public service announcement that using the Brave browser automatically bypasses the NYT paywall so you don't have to pay for your hate-reads. Also Brave has excellent tor support, which may become very useful at some point. And it was done by Brendan Eich who is a victim of political persecution. And who also reads Unz. Really, Brave is awesome.

    The contributions of Africans to the United States have been, on balance, negative.

    That’s the ugly truth of the matter, which no amount of “official propaganda” appears able to obscure. And let’s be frank, it’s a wild understatement.

    And thanks for the Brave plug. I hope it gains ground on the Evil Empire, though its road will be steep.

  47. “That’s two rewrites in one day of a poem that for more than a century has defined the United States as a nation of immigrants, open to all. Not just European immigrants. Not just wealthy immigrants. All immigrants.”

    Once again…Lazarus (who had nothing to do with the creation of the Statue of Liberty) wrote that poem in 1883. It was never voted into law by any legislative body. The year before that the United States Congress wrote a little poem called the Chinese Exclusion Act. It passed in the House by a margin of 5-1 and was the law of the land for over 60 years.

    The Chinese Exclusion Act is seldom forgotten…when the Left likes to talk about American racism. When the Left starts talking about immigration, however, it is immediately forgotten as they switch into “America has always been a land of open borders and was always meant to be” mode.

    For all practical purposes, however, the Chinese Exclusion Act, racist or not, was a superb public policy decision, as was the White Australia Policy. In 1882 the population of China was over seven times that of the entire United States, about 160 times that of Australia, and about 340 times the combined populations of California, Washington, and Oregon. Chinese immigrants could have easily swamped Australia and the Western United States and turned them into cultural and even political outposts of China rather than Europe.

    Of course it’s impossible that non-European immigrants could ever make whites a minority in a state as large as California, as we all know.

  48. Let’s take a look at this NYTIMES “1619 Project”:

    Our democracy’s founding ideals were false when they were written.Black Americans have fought to make them true.

    …With a lot of vital help from WASPs (ending the slave trade, abolishing slavery) and Jews (ending Jim Crow)…..

    If you want to understand the brutality of American capitalism, you have to start on the plantation.

    …And, for an extra dose of brutality, you could always do a survey of the death-rates on the French sugar islands of the Caribbean….

    Myths about physical racial differences were used to justify slavery — and are still believed by doctors today.

    Sickle Cell anemia? Racist lie.

    America holds onto an undemocratic assumption from its founding:that some people deserve more power than others

    Yeah, like, say, the people who run the NYTIMES…..

    Slavery Gave America a fear of Black people and a taste for violent punishment. Both still define our prison system

    Pretty accurate. Without slavery, the USA would have very few Blacks and a vastly lower violent crime rate….

    A vast wealth gap, driven by segregation, redlining, evictions, and exclusion, separates black and white America

    So, we’re just going to pretend that the USA’s demographics haven’t changed since the 1950s?OK…..

    Their ancestors were enslaved by law.Today, they are graduates of Howard Law School

    Yeesh. Talk about bottom of the barrel….

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna

    Without slavery, the USA would have very few Blacks and a vastly lower violent crime rate….
     
    Consider the vast resources which have been spent (wasted, really) trying to deal with the negro population and their various depredations upon the cultural landscape of this nation. Impossible to know what we've sacrificed. We can only imagine.

    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/817811439325303605/ACB13C573377D3D2E4F32FE6ED61B3D082AA5ADC/

    , @Mike_from_SGV
    I think the manic obsession with all things Black (slavery, reparations, etc) may be a sign that they are running scared, and the hustle is about to end. When the US is no longer dominated by easily-manipulated whites, but instead is more and more controlled by Asians, Mexicans and others who don't give a sh*t about Holy Black History (peace be upon it), they will find that no one cares about their complaints. These next couple of decades may be their last chance to monetize their privilege.
  49. @syonredux
    Come on, you must be a parody account......Nobody's that silly.....

    I am also beginning to think that “Corvinus” is attempting parody, like “Tiny Duck.” He’s just not as good at being ridiculous.

    • Agree: syonredux
  50. @Dtbb
    What about the Spanish in 1521 in the Carolinas?

    Wow, a slaving expedition yet. And a full hundred years before the English.

    Daresay the NYT will ignore the Latino naughtiness just as it ignores modern-day Brasil. Only Anglos (and those resembling Anglos) get The Treatment.

  51. @Dtbb
    What about the Spanish in 1521 in the Carolinas?

    Or about 1492, when Columbus landed in the New World.

  52. @syonredux
    Let's take a look at this NYTIMES "1619 Project":

    Our democracy’s founding ideals were false when they were written.Black Americans have fought to make them true.
     
    ...With a lot of vital help from WASPs (ending the slave trade, abolishing slavery) and Jews (ending Jim Crow).....

    If you want to understand the brutality of American capitalism, you have to start on the plantation.
     
    ...And, for an extra dose of brutality, you could always do a survey of the death-rates on the French sugar islands of the Caribbean....

    Myths about physical racial differences were used to justify slavery — and are still believed by doctors today.

     

    Sickle Cell anemia? Racist lie.

    America holds onto an undemocratic assumption from its founding:that some people deserve more power than others

     

    Yeah, like, say, the people who run the NYTIMES.....

    Slavery Gave America a fear of Black people and a taste for violent punishment. Both still define our prison system
     
    Pretty accurate. Without slavery, the USA would have very few Blacks and a vastly lower violent crime rate....

    A vast wealth gap, driven by segregation, redlining, evictions, and exclusion, separates black and white America
     
    So, we're just going to pretend that the USA's demographics haven't changed since the 1950s?OK.....

    Their ancestors were enslaved by law.Today, they are graduates of Howard Law School
     
    Yeesh. Talk about bottom of the barrel....

    Without slavery, the USA would have very few Blacks and a vastly lower violent crime rate….

    Consider the vast resources which have been spent (wasted, really) trying to deal with the negro population and their various depredations upon the cultural landscape of this nation. Impossible to know what we’ve sacrificed. We can only imagine.

    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/817811439325303605/ACB13C573377D3D2E4F32FE6ED61B3D082AA5ADC/

  53. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/MaraGay/status/1161401966167298054

    I’ve read many Civil War histories and everyone of them emphasized how backwards the slave south was economically, in 1861–vastly fewer factories, fewer railroads, less entrepreneurship, less wealth, inferior education, etc. Every economic historian agrees that slavery had a retarding effect on the southern economy. And the lasting legacy of slavery, African-Americans, continues to do so to this day.

    At least one can make a serious case that immigration was good for America; lots of (European) immigrants turned into great inventors and entrepreneurs for America. That’s no reason to let 80 IQ illegal aliens remain here, but at least there are SOME facts to support the pro-immigration case. But what the NYT is peddling is a pack of lies from start to finish.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    When I was younger, it was a simple matter to locate maps and charts showing that the wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War were the Southern States. And of course the situation reversed itself after the war. Now, for some reason, neither Google nor Bing admits that such maps or charts ever existed. The only thing I could find is some anti-slavery agitprop from a professor out of Bowdoin.

    Speaking of, Harriet Beecher Stowe was the wife of a Bowdoin professor and the college makes much of its abolitionist history. Despite that, current chaired Professor of Affirmative Action Brian Purnell declares in Portland Monthly magazine that “Maine owes its statehood to slavery” hence white people (even Yankees) must be the slaves of black people forever after. I may be paraphrasing a bit, as I didn't read his article.

  54. Many of the white men who founded the United States owned slaves, killed Indians and fought duels because they were high-testosterone badasses. They put modern white American men to shame, considering how we wouldn’t try to enslave anyone now, and we live in fear of accusations of racism.

    And notice that these men usually had no trouble finding white women who wanted to marry them and bear their children, despite the propaganda these days about women’s allegedly superior empathy towards the oppressed.

    I have to wonder how much of today’s social-justice pathology derives from implicit White Chad Envy.

    • Replies: @Hamlet's Ghost
    Just look at any SJW/Antifa types at any university and it's not hard to see their permanently embittered expressions originate from the fact that hardly any of them are even moderately attractive or gifted.
  55. Anon[372] • Disclaimer says:

    While on the other hand, Slate is de-retconning history. Rebecca Onion reevaluates the Zeroeth Amendment.

    The Complicated History of Emma Lazarus’ “The New Colossus”
    The poem has never represented America’s immigration policy. It’s always been aspirational.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/ken-cuccinelli-statue-of-liberty-poem-emma-lazarus-new-colossus-history.html?

    Besides Steve, the book White Shift also goes pretty deep into the history of the poem and the “Franco-American Friendship Statue.” It’s looking like a trend in reality noticing.

  56. @SimpleSong
    The contributions of Africans to the United States have been, on balance, negative. There are a handful of musicians who did interesting work. But most African Americans were/are dead economic weight or worse.

    If Africans are so productive, and countries can get rich off of African slavery or other forms of exploitation of African labor, then shouldn't Brazil now be much more prosperous than the US, since they received many times more slaves? Shouldn't the antebellum South have been more advanced than the North?

    Anyway.

    Public service announcement that using the Brave browser automatically bypasses the NYT paywall so you don't have to pay for your hate-reads. Also Brave has excellent tor support, which may become very useful at some point. And it was done by Brendan Eich who is a victim of political persecution. And who also reads Unz. Really, Brave is awesome.

    the Brave browser automatically bypasses the NYT paywall so you don’t have to pay for your hate-reads.

    Can you get the crossword that way?

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    Crossword is triggering and insensitive, bigot. The new term is Fluidword Puzzle.
  57. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/MaraGay/status/1161401966167298054

    In the days and weeks to come, we will publish essays demonstrating that nearly everything that has made America exceptional grew out of slavery.

    Yep.Everyone knows that slavery is the key to national greatness. That’s why Brazil is a global powerhouse and the USA’s chief rival for global hegemon……

  58. @Hopscotch
    1619 is the perfect sweet spot for framing the founding of the country. It makes it old enough so that US-Anglo history is entirely tainted by slave libel. But if you go any further back, it's starts to get into that touchy aspect of North American history -- the part where Carlos Slims' ancestors wiped out much of the male line in Central and South America.

    Actually, I think Carlos Slim’s ancestors were trading rugs in some Middle Eastern bazaar in 1619.

    But your point is taken. If you pull back too far, slavery is just a universal institution of mankind. The only reason it seems anomolous at all in America is because Northern Europe at that time was the only region of the world where slavery wasn’t practiced.

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
  59. @Corvinus
    Sailer’s Folly--Whenever there is some pattern to be NOTICED, despite historians, economics, sociologists, and political scientists having explained it clearly and concisely in the past, it is done in a manner that is mind-numbingly stupefying.

    The only retCONing going on here is done compliments of our dear author by way of his false premise. Nations have several beginning points, i.e. "true foundings", in distinct areas. A striking implication in those various "true foundings" is how our American society is unified in terms of an implicit (tacit practices) ethos, as well as a division across historical periods and geographic regions through an explicit (our values and the behaviors guided by them) ethos. From this framework, the year 1619 signifies America's "true founding" as a nation that was separated according to race by way of the "peculiar institution". The year 1883 signifies America's "true founding" as a nation that was coming into its own through an amalgamation of ethnic groups. Interwoven here is how enslaved Africans and newcomers to our land both shared a fierce independence to keep alive their past heritages, as well as a resignation to succumb to the forces of assimilation and accommodation by way of their shared values--self-direction, self-reliance, and self-expression. In a way, the African and European immigrant experiences collided--both experienced hardship and disdain from the native population, yet overcame those privations to forge something that was the envy of the civilized world. Their separate stories is interwoven into the fabric of our American ethos.

    "Americans are so enamored with equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom".--Alexis de Tocqueville

    "There is an emotional constitution that Americans has. There is an emotional reality that we all share that we all share like the New Colossus."--Stephen Colbert

    "America Is Made Out of Cotton”.

    "Sugar candy", Mr. Sailer. It's sugar candy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkIyBC9SO3Q

  60. An early instance of the second, less honest retconning was when the producers of Bewitched expected us to swallow that Darren went from being an invalid to being a closeted homo. Life’s a Dick!

  61. @Johnny789
    Looks like an opportunity for some High Comedy coming our way soon. Just don't laugh out loud.

    Or stop applauding.

  62. Wait! What? The first African slaves came to Jamestown (estd. 1607, and Colonial Capital from 1616) in 1619, so that means they didn’t build that.

  63. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/MaraGay/status/1161401966167298054

    It sounds very ominous.

    The big reveal at the end of a bad TV series and f*ck the plot holes. It was slavery all along.

    An American Instrumentality Project

    I suppose the plan is to have at least 3 major cities burnt down by mid-2020 to increase awareness.

    Maybe the NYT is actually itself managed by Putin himself.

  64. @Tiny Duck
    The truth is that white peoples have contributed nothing to America any good

    we need white people right now to do the work of racial and economic justice

    https://www.newsweek.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-white-people-do-work-pod-save-america-1454579?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

    Read Nikole Hannah Jones

    “There’s a reason Donald Trump is using racism as a cudgel, because it’s how he gets away with his corruption. That’s how he steals the bag,” Ocasio-Cortez said. “He’s going to use racism. The reason he’s trying to center issues of race, of immigration, etc. is to sink the economic agenda. He’s trying to eclipse it. And the only reason that has power is because we refuse to talk about. And so race is going to be an issue, and the key is whether we’re going to allow him to define that conversation, or if we’re going to insert ourselves into that space and define that conversation.”

    This doesn’t make any sense.

    Except as a way to overload people’s short-term memory buffers with memes so that you can pretend you said something afterwards.

    I would force candidates to draw mind maps and annotated block diagrams with arrows showing causality and relations on huge, beautiful blackboards (the old-school black ones with real excellent chalk bought from that japanese shop that closed in 2014) ON CAMERA so they can clarify what they think. That’s how it is done in any context that goes beyond self-congratulatory roundtable bullshit emissions.

    If the result is a horrendous mass that looks like it’s been generated by a toddler or a hypey marketing executive, a public flogging shall ensue.

    • Replies: @midtown
    Take my money!
  65. @Herbert West
    I’ve read many Civil War histories and everyone of them emphasized how backwards the slave south was economically, in 1861–vastly fewer factories, fewer railroads, less entrepreneurship, less wealth, inferior education, etc. Every economic historian agrees that slavery had a retarding effect on the southern economy. And the lasting legacy of slavery, African-Americans, continues to do so to this day.

    At least one can make a serious case that immigration was good for America; lots of (European) immigrants turned into great inventors and entrepreneurs for America. That’s no reason to let 80 IQ illegal aliens remain here, but at least there are SOME facts to support the pro-immigration case. But what the NYT is peddling is a pack of lies from start to finish.

    When I was younger, it was a simple matter to locate maps and charts showing that the wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War were the Southern States. And of course the situation reversed itself after the war. Now, for some reason, neither Google nor Bing admits that such maps or charts ever existed. The only thing I could find is some anti-slavery agitprop from a professor out of Bowdoin.

    Speaking of, Harriet Beecher Stowe was the wife of a Bowdoin professor and the college makes much of its abolitionist history. Despite that, current chaired Professor of Affirmative Action Brian Purnell declares in Portland Monthly magazine that “Maine owes its statehood to slavery” hence white people (even Yankees) must be the slaves of black people forever after. I may be paraphrasing a bit, as I didn’t read his article.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Compromise of 1820?
    , @David
    Are you sure the southern states were wealthier? Henry Adams described traveling in the south before the war as like reverting to a destitute age.

    These are the topics in the first chapter of Hinton Helper's 1860 The Impending Crisis of the South: How to Meet It, available on Project Gutenberg.

    COMPARISON BETWEEN THE FREE AND THE SLAVE STATES
    Progress and Prosperity of the North—Inertness and Imbecility of the South—The True Cause and the Remedy—Quantity and Value of the Agricultural Products of the two Sections—Important Statistics—Wealth, Revenue, and Expenditure of the several States—Sterling Extracts and General Remarks on Free and Slave Labor—The Immediate Abolition of Slavery the True Policy of the South.
    , @Barnard
    That is an insane way to look at the Missouri Compromise. Maine wanted to the enter the Union as an independent state no longer tied to Massachusetts. If slavery had an impact, it delayed Maine's entrance to the Union as representatives from slave states delayed it to make sure Missouri was added as a slave state simultaneously to keep the balance. If slavery had not been legal anywhere in the union, Maine would have been added as a state no later than 1820 (probably earlier) without any controversy at all.
    , @res
    I searched for: wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War
    and the first hit was: https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/blog/was-the-south-poor-before-the-war/
    Which argues for the South being wealthier. The essay was originally written in 1982 though. The original title was: “The Affluent Section: The South on the Eve of the War Between the States.”
    , @syonredux

    When I was younger, it was a simple matter to locate maps and charts showing that the wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War were the Southern States.
     
    If you were a member of the slave-owning elite, sure. For the bulk of the White population of the South, though, slavery was a very bad thing, inhibiting the development of a middle-class and stifling job opportunities (why hire a White carpenter when you can own a Black one?).

    Northern visitors to the antebellum South were shocked at the high levels of White poverty and illiteracy that they saw. In the North, such things were not common among native Whites.....
  66. @Mr McKenna
    When I was younger, it was a simple matter to locate maps and charts showing that the wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War were the Southern States. And of course the situation reversed itself after the war. Now, for some reason, neither Google nor Bing admits that such maps or charts ever existed. The only thing I could find is some anti-slavery agitprop from a professor out of Bowdoin.

    Speaking of, Harriet Beecher Stowe was the wife of a Bowdoin professor and the college makes much of its abolitionist history. Despite that, current chaired Professor of Affirmative Action Brian Purnell declares in Portland Monthly magazine that “Maine owes its statehood to slavery” hence white people (even Yankees) must be the slaves of black people forever after. I may be paraphrasing a bit, as I didn't read his article.

    The Compromise of 1820?

  67. How do other countries with significant numbers of descendants of African slaves incorporate them into their national stories?

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    I think Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, France, Iraq (there are actually a fair amount of black Iraqis descended from slaves...) etc acknowledge that the slave descendants add a bit of flavor, but they definitely don’t make them the center of the narrative.

    That is a bizarre and uniquely Northern European phenomenon. Jewish academics have contributed to this tendency too but they couldn’t have gotten as far without hysterical Yankee WASPuritan abolitionists laying the groundwork.
  68. Emma Lazarus was and Max Boot is a Zionist. None of their moral preening applies to the indigenous Palestinian people. Do not take Lazarus and Boot seriously.

  69. I tried to get into 1619, as I do find AA history interesting. However it’s just too political and the grandiose statements about slavery being the founding of America are just nonsensical and ahistorical. I read parts of a real obnoxious article, ironically written by a white male Harvard professor where he denounced capitalism and said it had roots in slavery.

  70. Oh God, you’re lucky this one historian I know doesn’t live or care about America, lest he would probably drive half of them journalists to cognitive dissonance-induced suicide.

    There’s no such thing as the USA back in 1619, it’s invalid as it gets

  71. @Dtbb
    What about the Spanish in 1521 in the Carolinas?

    Cabeza de Vaca mentions serving as a slave himself, and refers to others serving as slaves, some white, some Indian. He makes slavery appear to be commonplace among American natives.

    We asked how the living Christians fared. Badly, they replied; the boys and some of the Indian men enlivened their dreary idleness by constantly kicking, cuffing, and cudgeling the three slaves; such was the life they led.

    His Adventures in the Unknown Interior of America is the best if not the only account of Indian culture before the onset of European diseases.

  72. @Corvinus
    I will do you one better.

    Re Negro John Punch, July 1640. “Whereas Hugh Gwyn hath...brought back from Maryland three servants formerly run away...the court doth therefore order that the three said servants shall receive the punishment of whipping and thirty stripes apiece one called Victor, a Dutchman, the other a Scotchman called James Gregory, shall first serve out their times with their master according to their Indentures, and one whole year apiece after the time of their service is expired...and after that service...to serve the colony for three whole years apiece, and that the third being a negro named
    John Punch shall serve his said master or his assigns for the time of his natural life here or elsewhere.”

    I will assume, at my own peril, that you are an educated (white) man. Please respond to this question--Why is this court case a precedent in the history of slavery in America? Focus on the difference in the punishments the white escapees and the black escapee had received.

    Might it have to do with contracts? The first two had signed indenture agreements. I doubt Punch kept his paperwork.

    • Replies: @G. Poulin
    That's what I immediately thought, too. But it was still a bad ruling, in that it condemned Punch to permanent servitude. A fairer ruling would have been based on the assumption that Punch would be freed at some future point, even if the exact legal date was unknown because of the lack of paperwork. This ruling created a loophole which allowed the emergence of widespread chattel slavery.
    , @Corvinus
    "The first two had signed indenture agreements. I doubt Punch kept his paperwork."

    LOL. All three had paperwork. All three committed a similar crime--ditching before their service time was up. Which two got additional time, followed by their release, and which one received a lifetime labor contract for the same offense?
  73. @Mr McKenna
    When I was younger, it was a simple matter to locate maps and charts showing that the wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War were the Southern States. And of course the situation reversed itself after the war. Now, for some reason, neither Google nor Bing admits that such maps or charts ever existed. The only thing I could find is some anti-slavery agitprop from a professor out of Bowdoin.

    Speaking of, Harriet Beecher Stowe was the wife of a Bowdoin professor and the college makes much of its abolitionist history. Despite that, current chaired Professor of Affirmative Action Brian Purnell declares in Portland Monthly magazine that “Maine owes its statehood to slavery” hence white people (even Yankees) must be the slaves of black people forever after. I may be paraphrasing a bit, as I didn't read his article.

    Are you sure the southern states were wealthier? Henry Adams described traveling in the south before the war as like reverting to a destitute age.

    These are the topics in the first chapter of Hinton Helper’s 1860 The Impending Crisis of the South: How to Meet It, available on Project Gutenberg.

    COMPARISON BETWEEN THE FREE AND THE SLAVE STATES
    Progress and Prosperity of the North—Inertness and Imbecility of the South—The True Cause and the Remedy—Quantity and Value of the Agricultural Products of the two Sections—Important Statistics—Wealth, Revenue, and Expenditure of the several States—Sterling Extracts and General Remarks on Free and Slave Labor—The Immediate Abolition of Slavery the True Policy of the South.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
    Harper's The _NYT_ of its day? It had been founded in AD1850 by a NYC publisher, so most of its readership would have been from Northern states, and its closest readers would have been Yankees (upstate NY and New England) [1]. Additionally, the Yankees had established intellectual preeminence in literary matters by AD1850, and were the originators of most of the Abolitionist agitation.

    Additionally: the Deep South, pre-civil war, was an aristocratic society, so it supported extremes of wealth. Harper's may have simply looked at the median case, the poor. This being 1860, and Harper's influenced by abolitionists (both agitators/proponents and a generally abolitionist public, Harper's didn't look at the poor in Northern cities. Further, who would want to read an article telling them "North about the same as South, except on average less wealthy".

    This is not to say that the article had no validity. In the end, the ability of the North to support a more thoroughly capable workforce proved decisive. Not only could the North provide better logistics than the South, it could also replace manpower shortages by recruiting immigrants who had originally arrived to take industrial jobs. After the Civil War, Yankee society and NYC (New Netherlands) was capable of supporting a large expansion that Deep South society, an expansion that the Deep South would otherwise forbidden, as it had forbidden similar expansion for several decades lest the new territory's inhabitants forbid slavery in the Deep South. It wasn't a coincidence that the trans-continental railway project was authorized by Congress and construction started in AD 1863, during active Civil War combat.

    Parallels here with the Revolutionary War, which was in large part about the U.K. trying to stop expansion of the 13 colonies to their West as one step in an attempt to establish Parliamentary supremacy in the colonies.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] See region map with Woodward's divisions at:
    http://www.colinwoodard.com/files/ColinWoodard_AmericanNations_map.pdf
    , @Autochthon
    Accepting at face value Hinton Helper's assessments of southeastern America is like accepting at face value Albert Sharpton's assessments of the F.U.S.A. as a whole today: there is a bias, an agenda that impeaches their credibility.

    It is true that freeholders were immensely poorer than the planters (itself very much a reflection of the division between the Celtic peoples in the piedmont and mountains (many subsistence farmers) and the Germanic (English) descendants of cavaliers who held the fertile, coastal plains.

    However, what Helper characterises as the barbaric results of slavery, or southern culture, or whatever one wishes to call it, is mostly nothing more than the differences between rural societies and those (more urbanised) at the forefront of the industrial revolution. The freeholders of Appalachia in Ohio and Pennsylvania; the trappers of Michigan and Maine, were not particularly more sophisticated or wealthy than those of Tennessee and Georgia – indeed, the freeholders of Texas, where land was functionally infinite at the time in relation to the population – mostly ranchers, did far better for themselves than any schlub locked in a textile mill for twelve hours daily in Massachusetts ever did – Hell, some of the better kept house-slaves did better than that.

    Ooooh! There's a streetcar and a steam ferry the man in Boston or New York can take to his drudgery in the manufactory then back to his cramped, rented flat next to an alley full of poop! How much happier he must be than the benighted hillbilly of the Ozarks who must farm all his own vegetables, care for the chickens, milk the cow, and mind the back forty to get his corn to market on time – all miles from any opera house, railroad, or even a church! Sheer barbarity! Why, does the villain even pay enough taxes to support a proper village government and a schoolhouse for the children? No, the little ones spend all their time being taught by their parents how to run a farm. Imagine!

    As ever in such discussions, most persons have agendas and beliefs they will cheerily torture (or ignore) certain facts to support, and an oversimplified paradigm that does not match the paradoxes, nuances, and complexity of the actual facts – which don't support any one modern doxology of "How It Really Was."
    , @syonredux
    Yep. "Cotton, slaves, and arrogance" don't mean much when compared to a little thing called the
    Industrial Revolution:



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S72nI4Ex_E0
    , @Harry Baldwin
    In his autobiography, Cassius M. Clay describes being struck by how prosperous the North was compared to the South when he went up there as a young man. He became a fierce opponent of slavery largely because he felt it retarded the economic development of his native South.
  74. Can’t wait to see General Lee* lead an army of colored men against the army of neurotic Upper West Side jews.

    *Spike Lee

  75. @Dtbb
    What about the Spanish in 1521 in the Carolinas?

    Exactly. It will be another 100 years before Florida will be part of the USA for as long as it was part of Spain.

  76. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/DanaGoldstein/status/1161635589302751232

    Grateful to work at the place that published the 1619 project; grateful to colleagues like @nhannahjones and the team @NYTmag who made this happen. Please read every word.

    Just change your name to Dana Duck and be done with it.

  77. When asked on NPR whether the words inscribed on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty

    Wikipedia says it is in the Museum in the base.

    In 1903, a bronze tablet that bears the text of Emma Lazarus’s sonnet, “The New Colossus” (1883), was presented by friends of the poet. Until the 1986 renovation, it was mounted inside the pedestal; today it resides in the Statue of Liberty Museum, in the base.

  78. @Hank Yobo
    Might it have to do with contracts? The first two had signed indenture agreements. I doubt Punch kept his paperwork.

    That’s what I immediately thought, too. But it was still a bad ruling, in that it condemned Punch to permanent servitude. A fairer ruling would have been based on the assumption that Punch would be freed at some future point, even if the exact legal date was unknown because of the lack of paperwork. This ruling created a loophole which allowed the emergence of widespread chattel slavery.

  79. @syonredux
    Let's take a look at this NYTIMES "1619 Project":

    Our democracy’s founding ideals were false when they were written.Black Americans have fought to make them true.
     
    ...With a lot of vital help from WASPs (ending the slave trade, abolishing slavery) and Jews (ending Jim Crow).....

    If you want to understand the brutality of American capitalism, you have to start on the plantation.
     
    ...And, for an extra dose of brutality, you could always do a survey of the death-rates on the French sugar islands of the Caribbean....

    Myths about physical racial differences were used to justify slavery — and are still believed by doctors today.

     

    Sickle Cell anemia? Racist lie.

    America holds onto an undemocratic assumption from its founding:that some people deserve more power than others

     

    Yeah, like, say, the people who run the NYTIMES.....

    Slavery Gave America a fear of Black people and a taste for violent punishment. Both still define our prison system
     
    Pretty accurate. Without slavery, the USA would have very few Blacks and a vastly lower violent crime rate....

    A vast wealth gap, driven by segregation, redlining, evictions, and exclusion, separates black and white America
     
    So, we're just going to pretend that the USA's demographics haven't changed since the 1950s?OK.....

    Their ancestors were enslaved by law.Today, they are graduates of Howard Law School
     
    Yeesh. Talk about bottom of the barrel....

    I think the manic obsession with all things Black (slavery, reparations, etc) may be a sign that they are running scared, and the hustle is about to end. When the US is no longer dominated by easily-manipulated whites, but instead is more and more controlled by Asians, Mexicans and others who don’t give a sh*t about Holy Black History (peace be upon it), they will find that no one cares about their complaints. These next couple of decades may be their last chance to monetize their privilege.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It's in the interest of new arrivals to America to at least feign indignation over slavery and Jim Crow (and mistreatment of the Indians) because it morally delegitimizes the founders of the country, and undermines the claims of their descendants that America belongs to them. (The same reason this issue has been so important to Jews in the past.)

    In other words, we're going to be hearing a lot more, not less, about the crimes of white people against blacks as the country becomes less white.
  80. @David
    Are you sure the southern states were wealthier? Henry Adams described traveling in the south before the war as like reverting to a destitute age.

    These are the topics in the first chapter of Hinton Helper's 1860 The Impending Crisis of the South: How to Meet It, available on Project Gutenberg.

    COMPARISON BETWEEN THE FREE AND THE SLAVE STATES
    Progress and Prosperity of the North—Inertness and Imbecility of the South—The True Cause and the Remedy—Quantity and Value of the Agricultural Products of the two Sections—Important Statistics—Wealth, Revenue, and Expenditure of the several States—Sterling Extracts and General Remarks on Free and Slave Labor—The Immediate Abolition of Slavery the True Policy of the South.

    Harper’s The _NYT_ of its day? It had been founded in AD1850 by a NYC publisher, so most of its readership would have been from Northern states, and its closest readers would have been Yankees (upstate NY and New England) [1]. Additionally, the Yankees had established intellectual preeminence in literary matters by AD1850, and were the originators of most of the Abolitionist agitation.

    Additionally: the Deep South, pre-civil war, was an aristocratic society, so it supported extremes of wealth. Harper’s may have simply looked at the median case, the poor. This being 1860, and Harper’s influenced by abolitionists (both agitators/proponents and a generally abolitionist public, Harper’s didn’t look at the poor in Northern cities. Further, who would want to read an article telling them “North about the same as South, except on average less wealthy”.

    This is not to say that the article had no validity. In the end, the ability of the North to support a more thoroughly capable workforce proved decisive. Not only could the North provide better logistics than the South, it could also replace manpower shortages by recruiting immigrants who had originally arrived to take industrial jobs. After the Civil War, Yankee society and NYC (New Netherlands) was capable of supporting a large expansion that Deep South society, an expansion that the Deep South would otherwise forbidden, as it had forbidden similar expansion for several decades lest the new territory’s inhabitants forbid slavery in the Deep South. It wasn’t a coincidence that the trans-continental railway project was authorized by Congress and construction started in AD 1863, during active Civil War combat.

    Parallels here with the Revolutionary War, which was in large part about the U.K. trying to stop expansion of the 13 colonies to their West as one step in an attempt to establish Parliamentary supremacy in the colonies.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] See region map with Woodward’s divisions at:
    http://www.colinwoodard.com/files/ColinWoodard_AmericanNations_map.pdf

  81. @Mr. Anon

    When critics of the Trump administration warn that it is transforming America into something dark and ugly,...
     
    People like the deceitful, slimy, and odious war-monger Max Boot have transformed America into something dark and ugly. If there is an Emoji for "dick-head", it probably looks like Max Boot.

    I'm sick and tired of loathsome interlopers like Boot telling me "who we are".

  82. @syonredux
    Come on, you must be a parody account......Nobody's that silly.....

    Lots of people are that silly. And stupid. Corvinus is one of them.

  83. @David
    Are you sure the southern states were wealthier? Henry Adams described traveling in the south before the war as like reverting to a destitute age.

    These are the topics in the first chapter of Hinton Helper's 1860 The Impending Crisis of the South: How to Meet It, available on Project Gutenberg.

    COMPARISON BETWEEN THE FREE AND THE SLAVE STATES
    Progress and Prosperity of the North—Inertness and Imbecility of the South—The True Cause and the Remedy—Quantity and Value of the Agricultural Products of the two Sections—Important Statistics—Wealth, Revenue, and Expenditure of the several States—Sterling Extracts and General Remarks on Free and Slave Labor—The Immediate Abolition of Slavery the True Policy of the South.

    Accepting at face value Hinton Helper’s assessments of southeastern America is like accepting at face value Albert Sharpton’s assessments of the F.U.S.A. as a whole today: there is a bias, an agenda that impeaches their credibility.

    It is true that freeholders were immensely poorer than the planters (itself very much a reflection of the division between the Celtic peoples in the piedmont and mountains (many subsistence farmers) and the Germanic (English) descendants of cavaliers who held the fertile, coastal plains.

    However, what Helper characterises as the barbaric results of slavery, or southern culture, or whatever one wishes to call it, is mostly nothing more than the differences between rural societies and those (more urbanised) at the forefront of the industrial revolution. The freeholders of Appalachia in Ohio and Pennsylvania; the trappers of Michigan and Maine, were not particularly more sophisticated or wealthy than those of Tennessee and Georgia – indeed, the freeholders of Texas, where land was functionally infinite at the time in relation to the population – mostly ranchers, did far better for themselves than any schlub locked in a textile mill for twelve hours daily in Massachusetts ever did – Hell, some of the better kept house-slaves did better than that.

    Ooooh! There’s a streetcar and a steam ferry the man in Boston or New York can take to his drudgery in the manufactory then back to his cramped, rented flat next to an alley full of poop! How much happier he must be than the benighted hillbilly of the Ozarks who must farm all his own vegetables, care for the chickens, milk the cow, and mind the back forty to get his corn to market on time – all miles from any opera house, railroad, or even a church! Sheer barbarity! Why, does the villain even pay enough taxes to support a proper village government and a schoolhouse for the children? No, the little ones spend all their time being taught by their parents how to run a farm. Imagine!

    As ever in such discussions, most persons have agendas and beliefs they will cheerily torture (or ignore) certain facts to support, and an oversimplified paradigm that does not match the paradoxes, nuances, and complexity of the actual facts – which don’t support any one modern doxology of “How It Really Was.”

  84. @International Jew

    If the country’s history is reframed to make the arrival of black slaves in 1619 “our true founding,” is there still room for Nation of Immigrants retconning too?
     
    Yeah, I think there is. They'll say that from 1619 to 1880 the blacks built this country up to the greatness that from 1881 on drew in the white ethnics.

    That's why Haiti was always the first choice of Italians and Jews who were willing to sail about 1500 miles farther than the route to New York.

    They might have had the filthy mud eating savages hadn’t slaughtered the French colonizers there.

  85. https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/max-boots-dishonesty/

    Boot’s pretty much burned his bridges to everyone except his wife.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  86. @Corvinus
    Sailer’s Folly--Whenever there is some pattern to be NOTICED, despite historians, economics, sociologists, and political scientists having explained it clearly and concisely in the past, it is done in a manner that is mind-numbingly stupefying.

    The only retCONing going on here is done compliments of our dear author by way of his false premise. Nations have several beginning points, i.e. "true foundings", in distinct areas. A striking implication in those various "true foundings" is how our American society is unified in terms of an implicit (tacit practices) ethos, as well as a division across historical periods and geographic regions through an explicit (our values and the behaviors guided by them) ethos. From this framework, the year 1619 signifies America's "true founding" as a nation that was separated according to race by way of the "peculiar institution". The year 1883 signifies America's "true founding" as a nation that was coming into its own through an amalgamation of ethnic groups. Interwoven here is how enslaved Africans and newcomers to our land both shared a fierce independence to keep alive their past heritages, as well as a resignation to succumb to the forces of assimilation and accommodation by way of their shared values--self-direction, self-reliance, and self-expression. In a way, the African and European immigrant experiences collided--both experienced hardship and disdain from the native population, yet overcame those privations to forge something that was the envy of the civilized world. Their separate stories is interwoven into the fabric of our American ethos.

    "Americans are so enamored with equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom".--Alexis de Tocqueville

    "There is an emotional constitution that Americans has. There is an emotional reality that we all share that we all share like the New Colossus."--Stephen Colbert

    "America Is Made Out of Cotton”.

    "Sugar candy", Mr. Sailer. It's sugar candy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkIyBC9SO3Q

    Whew…….thank god Corby dropped by from “Progressive Marketing” to set us straight!

    Bang up job you lads are doing down there!

  87. @Kronos
    Totally!

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/75/0d/bf/750dbfa22de6d080599c3e63e3849950.jpg

    It never gets more bizarre than people bringing up the fate of the indigenous peoples of the Americas as an argument *for* uncontrolled immigration.

  88. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/MaraGay/status/1161401966167298054

    Wake me when Mara gets to the part about Egyptian pedal powered helicopters…..the ones dat dey stole from Aprica.

  89. @Dave Pinsen
    How do other countries with significant numbers of descendants of African slaves incorporate them into their national stories?

    I think Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, France, Iraq (there are actually a fair amount of black Iraqis descended from slaves…) etc acknowledge that the slave descendants add a bit of flavor, but they definitely don’t make them the center of the narrative.

    That is a bizarre and uniquely Northern European phenomenon. Jewish academics have contributed to this tendency too but they couldn’t have gotten as far without hysterical Yankee WASPuritan abolitionists laying the groundwork.

  90. @Tiny Duck
    The truth is that white peoples have contributed nothing to America any good

    we need white people right now to do the work of racial and economic justice

    https://www.newsweek.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-white-people-do-work-pod-save-america-1454579?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

    Read Nikole Hannah Jones

    Read Nikole Hannah Jones

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikole_Hannah-Jones

    Nikole Hannah-Jones (born April 9, 1976)[1][2] is an American investigative journalist[3] known for her coverage of civil rights in the United States. In April 2015, she became a staff writer for The New York Times.[4]

    ******
    Hannah-Jones grew up in Waterloo, Iowa, to father Milton Hannah, who is African-American, and mother Cheryl A. Novotny, who is of Czech and English descent.[5]

    ******
    In early 2015, Nikole Hannah-Jones, along with Ron Nixon, Corey Johnson, and Topher Sanders, began dreaming of creating the Ida B. Wells Society for Investigative Reporting.[29] This organization was launched in Memphis, Tennessee in 2016, with the purpose of promoting investigative journalism, which is the least common type of reporting.[29] Following in the footsteps of Ida B. Wells, this society encourages minority journalists to expose injustices perpetuated by the government and defend people who are susceptible to being taken advantage of.[29] This organization was created with much support from the Open Society Foundations, Ford Foundation, and CUNY Graduate School of Journalism.[29]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_B._Wells

    Ida Bell Wells-Barnett (July 16, 1862 – March 25, 1931) was an African-American investigative journalist, educator, and an early leader in the civil rights movement. She was one of the founders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP).[1] She arguably became the most famous black woman in America, during a life that was centered on combating prejudice and violence, who fought for equality for African Americans, especially women.[2]

    Nikole Hannah-Jones adopts the moniker Ida Bae Wells on Twitter:

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones?lang=eng

    Ida Bae Wells
    @nhannahjones

    Reporter @nytmag covering race in the U.S. from 1619-present//AKA The Beyoncé of Journalism//Co-founder idabwellssociety.org //smart and thuggish//

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1162355560941072385

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1162362863094288385
    , @MEH 0910
    Nikole Hannah-Jones introduction and her speaking:

    The New York Times Presents The #1619Project
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrfV7w3EyGI&feature=youtu.be&t=1052

    Streamed live on Aug 13, 2019
    Four hundred years ago, on August 20, 1619, a ship carrying more than 20 enslaved Africans arrived in Virginia. Tonight, we remember this anniversary with an evening of conversation and performance featuring Nikole Hannah-Jones, Wesley Morris, Jamelle Bouie, Tyehimba Jess and more.

    Remember to look out for our “1619 Project” on August 18 which examines how the legacy of slavery continues to shape and define life in the United States.
     
    , @bomag

    Nikole Hannah Jones
     
    Hits all the targets:

    Half-blood

    Raised in the white world

    Various grievance degrees from college

    Writes about Blackness
    , @MEH 0910
    Nikole Hannah-Jones is also a "genius":

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1168877873702297602

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikole_Hannah-Jones#Awards

    • 2017: MacArthur Foundation "Genius Award" [28]
     
    https://www.macfound.org/fellows/988/
    , @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1170707991580033024
  91. @MEH 0910

    Read Nikole Hannah Jones
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikole_Hannah-Jones

    Nikole Hannah-Jones (born April 9, 1976)[1][2] is an American investigative journalist[3] known for her coverage of civil rights in the United States. In April 2015, she became a staff writer for The New York Times.[4]

    ******
    Hannah-Jones grew up in Waterloo, Iowa, to father Milton Hannah, who is African-American, and mother Cheryl A. Novotny, who is of Czech and English descent.[5]

    ******
    In early 2015, Nikole Hannah-Jones, along with Ron Nixon, Corey Johnson, and Topher Sanders, began dreaming of creating the Ida B. Wells Society for Investigative Reporting.[29] This organization was launched in Memphis, Tennessee in 2016, with the purpose of promoting investigative journalism, which is the least common type of reporting.[29] Following in the footsteps of Ida B. Wells, this society encourages minority journalists to expose injustices perpetuated by the government and defend people who are susceptible to being taken advantage of.[29] This organization was created with much support from the Open Society Foundations, Ford Foundation, and CUNY Graduate School of Journalism.[29]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_B._Wells

    Ida Bell Wells-Barnett (July 16, 1862 – March 25, 1931) was an African-American investigative journalist, educator, and an early leader in the civil rights movement. She was one of the founders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP).[1] She arguably became the most famous black woman in America, during a life that was centered on combating prejudice and violence, who fought for equality for African Americans, especially women.[2]
     
    Nikole Hannah-Jones adopts the moniker Ida Bae Wells on Twitter:

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones?lang=eng
    https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1000118161574977536/MJ-FExjk_400x400.jpg

    Ida Bae Wells
    @nhannahjones

    Reporter @nytmag covering race in the U.S. from 1619-present//AKA The Beyoncé of Journalism//Co-founder idabwellssociety.org //smart and thuggish//

     

    • Replies: @International Jew
    Uh-oh, that Vietnamese guy is on to something: binary is a seriously pejorative term these days.
    , @ben tillman

    It is deeply painful to me that anyone has a problem with black writers wanting to mark and commemorate the most atrocious thing that has ever happened to our people, which is the start of our enslavement here . . . .
     
    That was the BEST thing that ever happened to her people, and there's nothing else that even comes close.
  92. @An Aussie
    I stumbled across a quote recently that seemed appropriate for a lot of what I read happening in America and the WEIRD world in general.

    If we open a quarrel between past and present, we shall find that we have lost the future.
    -- Winston Churchill

     

    Thanks. That’s a good quote. It opens the third paragraph of his “Their Finest Hour” speech:
    https://www.fiftiesweb.com/usa/winston-churchill-finest-hour.htm

    Are there any older versions? The basic concept seems like something the Greeks or Romans would have recognized.

  93. @An Aussie
    I stumbled across a quote recently that seemed appropriate for a lot of what I read happening in America and the WEIRD world in general.

    If we open a quarrel between past and present, we shall find that we have lost the future.
    -- Winston Churchill

     

    Thanks. That’s a good quote. It opens the third paragraph of his “Their Finest Hour” speech:
    https://www.fiftiesweb.com/usa/winston-churchill-finest-hour.htm

    Are there any older versions? The basic concept seems like something the Greeks or Romans would have recognized.

  94. @An Aussie
    I stumbled across a quote recently that seemed appropriate for a lot of what I read happening in America and the WEIRD world in general.

    If we open a quarrel between past and present, we shall find that we have lost the future.
    -- Winston Churchill

     

    Thanks. That’s a good quote. It opens the third paragraph of his “Their Finest Hour” speech:
    https://www.fiftiesweb.com/usa/winston-churchill-finest-hour.htm

    Are there any older versions? The basic concept seems like something the Greeks or Romans would have recognized.

  95. @Reg Cæsar

    the Brave browser automatically bypasses the NYT paywall so you don’t have to pay for your hate-reads.
     
    Can you get the crossword that way?

    Crossword is triggering and insensitive, bigot. The new term is Fluidword Puzzle.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    In the kinder and gentler Britain, it's miffedword.
  96. @Mr McKenna
    When I was younger, it was a simple matter to locate maps and charts showing that the wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War were the Southern States. And of course the situation reversed itself after the war. Now, for some reason, neither Google nor Bing admits that such maps or charts ever existed. The only thing I could find is some anti-slavery agitprop from a professor out of Bowdoin.

    Speaking of, Harriet Beecher Stowe was the wife of a Bowdoin professor and the college makes much of its abolitionist history. Despite that, current chaired Professor of Affirmative Action Brian Purnell declares in Portland Monthly magazine that “Maine owes its statehood to slavery” hence white people (even Yankees) must be the slaves of black people forever after. I may be paraphrasing a bit, as I didn't read his article.

    That is an insane way to look at the Missouri Compromise. Maine wanted to the enter the Union as an independent state no longer tied to Massachusetts. If slavery had an impact, it delayed Maine’s entrance to the Union as representatives from slave states delayed it to make sure Missouri was added as a slave state simultaneously to keep the balance. If slavery had not been legal anywhere in the union, Maine would have been added as a state no later than 1820 (probably earlier) without any controversy at all.

  97. @SimpleSong
    The future of North America will play out depending on what narrative is chosen.

    1. America is about black people: every city becomes Detroit, whites as tax cattle.
    2. America is about immigrants: we end up with a population of 1 billion and an average IQ of 90. We are India or Brazil, if we are lucky.
    3. America is about a plucky and select band of upstarts and pioneers taming a wilderness and building a civilization: We find new challenges and new frontiers, and unspool a future worthy of our ancestors.

    Let's do all we can to make sure these narratives stay separate and pure. I deplore narrative mixing. I tire of people who hopped on a jet airplane (invented by whites, btw) arriving in this country, watching football on Sunday, visiting Disneyland, and acting as if they are part of the same culture that hacked a civilization out of the wilderness. I tire of the most pathetic African tinkerers being held up as great inventors. You are not an American, Sanjay, neither are you , D'*, and you never will be. Your blue passport makes you a USian, but paperwork is not DNA. The days when we were flattered by your imitation of us are long past.

    I tire of people who hopped on a jet airplane (invented by whites, btw) arriving in this country, watching football on Sunday, visiting Disneyland, and acting as if they are part of the same culture that hacked a civilization out of the wilderness.

    Yep. People like Max Boot.

  98. @Alfa158
    Try re-reading Steve’s post.
    It is the NYT that is reporting that America had only one true founding, namely the beginning of slavery, not Steve. Steve appears to be agreeing with you and raising questions about the validity of the idea of a single founding. He doesn’t even bother going into the ludicrous idea that “the contributions of black Americans” are “at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are”.

    I wish we could get Buffalo Joe to come back and Corvy the chirping retard to sign off permanently.

  99. @Kronos
    Yeah, history can be “problematic” at times.

    https://compote.slate.com/images/188c73b1-c7ef-4fd9-a446-1d93aa00c77e.jpg

    I’m sensing a potential Chris Rock/Morgan Freeman vehicle here

  100. @Deepy6
    I say we print a trillion dollars and let the NYT decide who to give it to with the understanding that they will finally shut up about “who we are.”

    That’s not how it works. Even the Left has figured out that if reparations was a one time thing, it would result in the greatest boom in Cadillac sales in US history and then six months later everything would be the same as it is now. No, reparations means that whitey must pay and pay until equality is achieved (in other words, forever).

    Most importantly, the payment must not only be in cash but by removing whites (especially white males) from all position of authority in society where their mere presence is an assertion of privilege. Even when whites think they are well intentioned (which is not very often), they are still doing damage. Obama’s election was a good start although in retrospect it was a little disappointing and Obama himself a little Uncle Tomish and too surrounded by white people (especially the Jewish kind) like Axelrod and Emmanuel. Holder and Lynch were the right idea but his whole cabinet should have looked like them. Hopefully President Harris will know what to do.

  101. The sainted Immigrants own the USA from 1880-today. Blacks own 1619-1879. Seems like a good way to split the baby.

  102. Just to bring some reality in. Slaves had nothing to do with building the USA north of the Mason-Dixon line or west of the Mississippi, except for Arkansas, part of LA, and a small bit of East Texas. You had slaves in Missouri, but they were mostly just hired help and servants. Very few Cotton fields. And Florida south of the Panhandle was just swamp and pastures in 1865. We don’t look on Jamestown as starting the settlement of the USA, because they mostly just a bunch of Gentleman-Adventurers out for Gold. They brought few women with them. The Pilgrims were families and came to the New World to settle.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    There were some women in Jamestown.
    My brother traced our ancestry to a couple who went to Jamestown in 1617, and had a baby in Jamestown in 1619.

    Of course, just about any Jamestown descendants are descendants of the couples, rather than the single men (except for the single men who had children with Indian women)
  103. @Mr McKenna
    When I was younger, it was a simple matter to locate maps and charts showing that the wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War were the Southern States. And of course the situation reversed itself after the war. Now, for some reason, neither Google nor Bing admits that such maps or charts ever existed. The only thing I could find is some anti-slavery agitprop from a professor out of Bowdoin.

    Speaking of, Harriet Beecher Stowe was the wife of a Bowdoin professor and the college makes much of its abolitionist history. Despite that, current chaired Professor of Affirmative Action Brian Purnell declares in Portland Monthly magazine that “Maine owes its statehood to slavery” hence white people (even Yankees) must be the slaves of black people forever after. I may be paraphrasing a bit, as I didn't read his article.

    I searched for: wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War
    and the first hit was: https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/blog/was-the-south-poor-before-the-war/
    Which argues for the South being wealthier. The essay was originally written in 1982 though. The original title was: “The Affluent Section: The South on the Eve of the War Between the States.”

    • Replies: @syonredux

    I searched for: wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War
    and the first hit was: https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/blog/was-the-south-poor-before-the-war/
    Which argues for the South being wealthier. The essay was originally written in 1982 though. The original title was: “The Affluent Section: The South on the Eve of the War Between the States.”
     
    Some people certainly made a lot of money out of slavery and the cotton boom.....
    , @Jack D
    I think someone here mentioned that the richest country per capita in Africa is Equatorial Guinea (due to vast oil wealth and a relatively small population) but that most Equatorial Guineans live in extreme poverty. The country ranks 135th on the Human Development Index with less than half the population having access to clean drinking water and 20% of children dying before the age of five. The reason is that this wealth is distributed extremely unevenly - a handful of elites receive most of it and the rest of the population gets almost nothing.

    I believe a similar situation (not quite as extreme) prevailed in the pre-Civil War South, especially in the Cotton Belt, with cotton being their oil. The largest slave plantations had over 1,000 slaves on them all owned by 1 master. The total wealth produced on that plantation would be very large but most of it would accrue to the master and his family and the slaves received only relative crumbs.
  104. @Mr McKenna
    When I was younger, it was a simple matter to locate maps and charts showing that the wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War were the Southern States. And of course the situation reversed itself after the war. Now, for some reason, neither Google nor Bing admits that such maps or charts ever existed. The only thing I could find is some anti-slavery agitprop from a professor out of Bowdoin.

    Speaking of, Harriet Beecher Stowe was the wife of a Bowdoin professor and the college makes much of its abolitionist history. Despite that, current chaired Professor of Affirmative Action Brian Purnell declares in Portland Monthly magazine that “Maine owes its statehood to slavery” hence white people (even Yankees) must be the slaves of black people forever after. I may be paraphrasing a bit, as I didn't read his article.

    When I was younger, it was a simple matter to locate maps and charts showing that the wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War were the Southern States.

    If you were a member of the slave-owning elite, sure. For the bulk of the White population of the South, though, slavery was a very bad thing, inhibiting the development of a middle-class and stifling job opportunities (why hire a White carpenter when you can own a Black one?).

    Northern visitors to the antebellum South were shocked at the high levels of White poverty and illiteracy that they saw. In the North, such things were not common among native Whites…..

  105. @res
    I searched for: wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War
    and the first hit was: https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/blog/was-the-south-poor-before-the-war/
    Which argues for the South being wealthier. The essay was originally written in 1982 though. The original title was: “The Affluent Section: The South on the Eve of the War Between the States.”

    I searched for: wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War
    and the first hit was: https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/blog/was-the-south-poor-before-the-war/
    Which argues for the South being wealthier. The essay was originally written in 1982 though. The original title was: “The Affluent Section: The South on the Eve of the War Between the States.”

    Some people certainly made a lot of money out of slavery and the cotton boom…..

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Consider that there was an extreme bubble in the price of slaves. The book value of slaves was the vast majority of wealth in the South, which is why there were more millionaires in the South.

    Consider a plantation owner with 200 slaves. Average value of the slaves are $5000. The man is a millionaire. Thing is, his other assets, land and money, are not worth as much.
    After the War, his slaves are gone. His Confederate dollars are worthless. His valuables may have been confiscated by Yankees or sold to support themselves during the War. His house may be burned down, or in disrepair, and is probably crowded with several generations of his extended family. Even before the War, it was common for entire families to live in one room in the plantation mansion. All he has left is his land. His children may have absolutely nothing.

    For my ancestors, none of my mother’s grand parents attended college, but both her grandfathers were the sons of doctors who were the second or later sons of plantation owners. After the War, the families had absolutely nothing.
  106. @SimpleSong
    The future of North America will play out depending on what narrative is chosen.

    1. America is about black people: every city becomes Detroit, whites as tax cattle.
    2. America is about immigrants: we end up with a population of 1 billion and an average IQ of 90. We are India or Brazil, if we are lucky.
    3. America is about a plucky and select band of upstarts and pioneers taming a wilderness and building a civilization: We find new challenges and new frontiers, and unspool a future worthy of our ancestors.

    Let's do all we can to make sure these narratives stay separate and pure. I deplore narrative mixing. I tire of people who hopped on a jet airplane (invented by whites, btw) arriving in this country, watching football on Sunday, visiting Disneyland, and acting as if they are part of the same culture that hacked a civilization out of the wilderness. I tire of the most pathetic African tinkerers being held up as great inventors. You are not an American, Sanjay, neither are you , D'*, and you never will be. Your blue passport makes you a USian, but paperwork is not DNA. The days when we were flattered by your imitation of us are long past.

    I’m not sure I understand what you want. You apparently don’t want non-whites to attempt to imitate white people and adopt their customs but I assume you don’t want them acting all non-whitish and shitting in the street either. I know that you first choice would be for them all to leave so we could get back to the day (1619?) when Americans were all white and Anglo-Saxon, but assuming for the sake of argument that is not in the cards, isn’t assimilation better than the alternative?

    I realize it affronts your sense of honor for people who just stepped off the boat yesterday to be treated as your equal, but you know in your heart of hearts that they are not the same – isn’t that enough? In the case of non-whites, they don’t even have to wear yellow arm bands or anything for you to pick them out an non-Founding Stock. Others – Jew, Italians, etc. you can usually just pick out from their names or their nose (pick OUT from their noses, I’m not suggesting that you pick their noses) and you can not invite them to your tailgate parties. Isn’t that good enough? Isn’t it better that they spend their time at Disneyland instead of baking the “special” kind of matzoh like they did in the old days?

  107. @David
    Are you sure the southern states were wealthier? Henry Adams described traveling in the south before the war as like reverting to a destitute age.

    These are the topics in the first chapter of Hinton Helper's 1860 The Impending Crisis of the South: How to Meet It, available on Project Gutenberg.

    COMPARISON BETWEEN THE FREE AND THE SLAVE STATES
    Progress and Prosperity of the North—Inertness and Imbecility of the South—The True Cause and the Remedy—Quantity and Value of the Agricultural Products of the two Sections—Important Statistics—Wealth, Revenue, and Expenditure of the several States—Sterling Extracts and General Remarks on Free and Slave Labor—The Immediate Abolition of Slavery the True Policy of the South.

    Yep. “Cotton, slaves, and arrogance” don’t mean much when compared to a little thing called the
    Industrial Revolution:

  108. @jcd1974

    Is there room for both blacks to be at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are and for the huddled masses of wretched refuse to be at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are? If the country’s history is reframed to make the arrival of black slaves in 1619 “our true founding,” is there still room for Nation of Immigrants retconning too? Who is going to win this struggle for symbolic dominance?
     
    The Jews have outsmarted themselves on this one! White trying to erase the historical foundation of America, they have ensured that the plantation has supplanted Ellis Island. Once the narrative is black, there's no going back.

    And the timing is now perfect for the Nation of Islam to make common cause with Ilhan Omar to point out the role of Jewish slave traders in supplying the pipeline of slaves.

    Oops, their mascots/pets/battering rams against white gentiles are slipping the leash contrary to plan.

  109. @res
    I searched for: wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War
    and the first hit was: https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/blog/was-the-south-poor-before-the-war/
    Which argues for the South being wealthier. The essay was originally written in 1982 though. The original title was: “The Affluent Section: The South on the Eve of the War Between the States.”

    I think someone here mentioned that the richest country per capita in Africa is Equatorial Guinea (due to vast oil wealth and a relatively small population) but that most Equatorial Guineans live in extreme poverty. The country ranks 135th on the Human Development Index with less than half the population having access to clean drinking water and 20% of children dying before the age of five. The reason is that this wealth is distributed extremely unevenly – a handful of elites receive most of it and the rest of the population gets almost nothing.

    I believe a similar situation (not quite as extreme) prevailed in the pre-Civil War South, especially in the Cotton Belt, with cotton being their oil. The largest slave plantations had over 1,000 slaves on them all owned by 1 master. The total wealth produced on that plantation would be very large but most of it would accrue to the master and his family and the slaves received only relative crumbs.

    • Replies: @David
    total wealth produced... the slaves received only relative crumbs

    Not sure if "wealth" is profit, product, or the value of the enterprise.

    Commercial airlines spend around 45% of revenue on owning, maintaining and fueling airplanes. Seems likely slave plantations spent a similarly large portion of income on their principle means of production.

    I wonder if the average physical well being of freed slaves and their kids declined or improved after emancipation. A chart from well before the war to well after it would be nice.

    , @res
    That was my thinking, but the article I linked made two points that I think are worth repeating.
    1. The South was wealthier per capita even including slaves in the population count.
    2. Wealth inequality in the South was comparable to the North (here I think they are excluding slaves). Urban areas had high inequality which skews the numbers in the North.

    I'm sure that article is biased as well, but it seems well researched and argued so serves as a decent counterpoint to Current Year conventional thinking.

    P.S. Paleo Liberal made an important point about slave monetary value being a large component of the financial wealth of Southerners. Not sure what this analysis would look like with that backed out. Or what the most appropriate way of accounting for it would be.
    , @Logan
    Possibly the most extreme example of this in human history would be St. Domingue before the Haitian Revolution.

    Produced far and away more wealth than anywhere else on earth, to the extent that it was far more important in international politics than North America, but almost all of that wealth went to the grands blancs. Great inequality even between whites.
    , @Pericles

    The largest slave plantations had over 1,000 slaves on them all owned by 1 master. The total wealth produced on that plantation would be very large but most of it would accrue to the master and his family and the slaves received only relative crumbs.

     

    What's the profit margin on cotton again?

    I'd expect the plantations, had they lacked slaves, to instead invent seasonal labor with a latinx work force, and of course wage slavery where applicable. That way, the non-slaves get to feed and house themselves and only get paid when they work. Cost control.
  110. @MEH 0910

    Read Nikole Hannah Jones
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikole_Hannah-Jones

    Nikole Hannah-Jones (born April 9, 1976)[1][2] is an American investigative journalist[3] known for her coverage of civil rights in the United States. In April 2015, she became a staff writer for The New York Times.[4]

    ******
    Hannah-Jones grew up in Waterloo, Iowa, to father Milton Hannah, who is African-American, and mother Cheryl A. Novotny, who is of Czech and English descent.[5]

    ******
    In early 2015, Nikole Hannah-Jones, along with Ron Nixon, Corey Johnson, and Topher Sanders, began dreaming of creating the Ida B. Wells Society for Investigative Reporting.[29] This organization was launched in Memphis, Tennessee in 2016, with the purpose of promoting investigative journalism, which is the least common type of reporting.[29] Following in the footsteps of Ida B. Wells, this society encourages minority journalists to expose injustices perpetuated by the government and defend people who are susceptible to being taken advantage of.[29] This organization was created with much support from the Open Society Foundations, Ford Foundation, and CUNY Graduate School of Journalism.[29]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_B._Wells

    Ida Bell Wells-Barnett (July 16, 1862 – March 25, 1931) was an African-American investigative journalist, educator, and an early leader in the civil rights movement. She was one of the founders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP).[1] She arguably became the most famous black woman in America, during a life that was centered on combating prejudice and violence, who fought for equality for African Americans, especially women.[2]
     
    Nikole Hannah-Jones adopts the moniker Ida Bae Wells on Twitter:

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones?lang=eng
    https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1000118161574977536/MJ-FExjk_400x400.jpg

    Ida Bae Wells
    @nhannahjones

    Reporter @nytmag covering race in the U.S. from 1619-present//AKA The Beyoncé of Journalism//Co-founder idabwellssociety.org //smart and thuggish//

     

    Nikole Hannah-Jones introduction and her speaking:

    The New York Times Presents The #1619Project
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrfV7w3EyGI&feature=youtu.be&t=1052

    Streamed live on Aug 13, 2019
    Four hundred years ago, on August 20, 1619, a ship carrying more than 20 enslaved Africans arrived in Virginia. Tonight, we remember this anniversary with an evening of conversation and performance featuring Nikole Hannah-Jones, Wesley Morris, Jamelle Bouie, Tyehimba Jess and more.

    Remember to look out for our “1619 Project” on August 18 which examines how the legacy of slavery continues to shape and define life in the United States.

  111. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/DanaGoldstein/status/1162118543833534466

    https://twitter.com/DanaGoldstein/status/1162118545888743426

  112. @Corvinus
    I will do you one better.

    Re Negro John Punch, July 1640. “Whereas Hugh Gwyn hath...brought back from Maryland three servants formerly run away...the court doth therefore order that the three said servants shall receive the punishment of whipping and thirty stripes apiece one called Victor, a Dutchman, the other a Scotchman called James Gregory, shall first serve out their times with their master according to their Indentures, and one whole year apiece after the time of their service is expired...and after that service...to serve the colony for three whole years apiece, and that the third being a negro named
    John Punch shall serve his said master or his assigns for the time of his natural life here or elsewhere.”

    I will assume, at my own peril, that you are an educated (white) man. Please respond to this question--Why is this court case a precedent in the history of slavery in America? Focus on the difference in the punishments the white escapees and the black escapee had received.

    In practice, the difference in punishment was almost nonexistent. The captured servants were forced to serve out the remainder of their indentured servitude plus an additional four years. The term of an indenture was typically 4 to 7 years. So they would have been in their thirties when finally freed. Keep in mind that “freedom” meant being a middle-aged single man with no home, no money, and no property.

    Life expectancy was about 35 years in 17th-century England and less than 25 years in colonial Virginia. Of course, these figures are inflated by infant mortality. On the other hand, life expectancy would have been significantly lower for a poor single man. I would estimate that the men in question either died before finishing their servitude or lived less than five years afterwards as “free” men.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    A yellow comment wasted on a reply to le corbeau.
    , @Corvinus
    The two white indentured servants received the additional penalty, not the black indentured servant. He was given a sentence to work for the rest of his life. Do some investigating before trying to come off as being learned on this matter.
    , @Hank Yobo

    Keep in mind that “freedom” meant being a middle-aged single man with no home, no money, and no property.
     
    Not quite. You've forgotten about the "freedom dues" which were an integral part of the indenture agreement. Providing you were not one of "His Majesty's Seven (or Fourteen) Year Passengers," a euphemism for criminals, servants were given clothing, farming implements, and land or money by their former masters. This convention was designed to give ex-servants a foothold in colonial society. Maryland's Daniel Dulany was an example of an indentured servant who eventually made good.
  113. @advancedatheist
    Many of the white men who founded the United States owned slaves, killed Indians and fought duels because they were high-testosterone badasses. They put modern white American men to shame, considering how we wouldn't try to enslave anyone now, and we live in fear of accusations of racism.

    And notice that these men usually had no trouble finding white women who wanted to marry them and bear their children, despite the propaganda these days about women's allegedly superior empathy towards the oppressed.

    I have to wonder how much of today's social-justice pathology derives from implicit White Chad Envy.

    Just look at any SJW/Antifa types at any university and it’s not hard to see their permanently embittered expressions originate from the fact that hardly any of them are even moderately attractive or gifted.

  114. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/DanaGoldstein/status/1162118543833534466

    https://twitter.com/DanaGoldstein/status/1162118545888743426
    • Replies: @International Jew

    I consider it a huge responsibility with very little margin for error
     
    Nonsense. Laura Charlton is black. That means her "margin of error" is miles wide. The one with a narrow margin of error is Dana Goldstein. As we saw the other day with her colleague Jonathan Weisman, a Jew can blow up his career just by sucking up in not quite the right way.
  115. @Corvinus
    I will do you one better.

    Re Negro John Punch, July 1640. “Whereas Hugh Gwyn hath...brought back from Maryland three servants formerly run away...the court doth therefore order that the three said servants shall receive the punishment of whipping and thirty stripes apiece one called Victor, a Dutchman, the other a Scotchman called James Gregory, shall first serve out their times with their master according to their Indentures, and one whole year apiece after the time of their service is expired...and after that service...to serve the colony for three whole years apiece, and that the third being a negro named
    John Punch shall serve his said master or his assigns for the time of his natural life here or elsewhere.”

    I will assume, at my own peril, that you are an educated (white) man. Please respond to this question--Why is this court case a precedent in the history of slavery in America? Focus on the difference in the punishments the white escapees and the black escapee had received.

    Perhaps the difference in productivity between white indentured servants and black ones led to the decision to hold blacks for their entire lives to make an investment in bringing them worthwhile.

  116. @Honesthughgrant
    Just to bring some reality in. Slaves had nothing to do with building the USA north of the Mason-Dixon line or west of the Mississippi, except for Arkansas, part of LA, and a small bit of East Texas. You had slaves in Missouri, but they were mostly just hired help and servants. Very few Cotton fields. And Florida south of the Panhandle was just swamp and pastures in 1865. We don't look on Jamestown as starting the settlement of the USA, because they mostly just a bunch of Gentleman-Adventurers out for Gold. They brought few women with them. The Pilgrims were families and came to the New World to settle.

    There were some women in Jamestown.
    My brother traced our ancestry to a couple who went to Jamestown in 1617, and had a baby in Jamestown in 1619.

    Of course, just about any Jamestown descendants are descendants of the couples, rather than the single men (except for the single men who had children with Indian women)

  117. @syonredux

    I searched for: wealthiest states in the US before the Civil War
    and the first hit was: https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/blog/was-the-south-poor-before-the-war/
    Which argues for the South being wealthier. The essay was originally written in 1982 though. The original title was: “The Affluent Section: The South on the Eve of the War Between the States.”
     
    Some people certainly made a lot of money out of slavery and the cotton boom.....

    Consider that there was an extreme bubble in the price of slaves. The book value of slaves was the vast majority of wealth in the South, which is why there were more millionaires in the South.

    Consider a plantation owner with 200 slaves. Average value of the slaves are $5000. The man is a millionaire. Thing is, his other assets, land and money, are not worth as much.
    After the War, his slaves are gone. His Confederate dollars are worthless. His valuables may have been confiscated by Yankees or sold to support themselves during the War. His house may be burned down, or in disrepair, and is probably crowded with several generations of his extended family. Even before the War, it was common for entire families to live in one room in the plantation mansion. All he has left is his land. His children may have absolutely nothing.

    For my ancestors, none of my mother’s grand parents attended college, but both her grandfathers were the sons of doctors who were the second or later sons of plantation owners. After the War, the families had absolutely nothing.

    • Replies: @Honesthughgrant
    I think the comment about Confederate dollars isn't often discussed. The Southern banking system was converted to Confederate money after secession. So, the banking system more or less collapsed when the South lost. There was no Southern bank to get a loan from. And every patriotic Southerner - and bank - who put their money in Confederate bonds - lost it all. There was a massive shortage of investment capital. Plus, the British after 1865, put their investment money in developing the West and Midwest. The South came 3rd.
  118. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    Who invented the circulation of the blood?

    Who invented crushed peanuts, or the Super Soaker?

    One out of 3 ain’t bad.

    I just checked google for “American Inventors” to see whether whites had been completely abolished yet. I was heartened to see that Edison and Bell are still hanging there, although their accomplishments pale (no pun intended) next to the vital hair straightening developments of their fellow top- teners Madam C J Walker and Garrett Morgan. Although there is nothing wrong with natural hair, as the legislatures of NY and CA have confirmed by law, for those who so choose, we need our conks.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=american+inventors

  119. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1162355560941072385

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1162362863094288385

    Uh-oh, that Vietnamese guy is on to something: binary is a seriously pejorative term these days.

  120. Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle: you can’t simultaneously know both the position of the narrative and where it is going.

  121. @Corvinus
    I will do you one better.

    Re Negro John Punch, July 1640. “Whereas Hugh Gwyn hath...brought back from Maryland three servants formerly run away...the court doth therefore order that the three said servants shall receive the punishment of whipping and thirty stripes apiece one called Victor, a Dutchman, the other a Scotchman called James Gregory, shall first serve out their times with their master according to their Indentures, and one whole year apiece after the time of their service is expired...and after that service...to serve the colony for three whole years apiece, and that the third being a negro named
    John Punch shall serve his said master or his assigns for the time of his natural life here or elsewhere.”

    I will assume, at my own peril, that you are an educated (white) man. Please respond to this question--Why is this court case a precedent in the history of slavery in America? Focus on the difference in the punishments the white escapees and the black escapee had received.

    One possible distinction is that the other two are mentioned as having Indentures (written contracts detailing their term of service) while Punch doesn’t seem to have one. Even though Negro servitude was probably not (it’s not entirely clear) for life in the earliest days, blacks weren’t voluntarily signing up for it the same way that whites did back in Scotland – he was probably kidnapped from Africa.

    Another possibility is that Punch did something more heinous than the other two while he was at large (theft, rape, etc.) and therefore the court thought that he deserved greater punishment. Maybe the court thought that they were doing him a favor by not mentioning his vile act in writing, which might have gotten him lynched or maybe,while proof was lacking, the court believed it to be true anyway and reflected it in his sentence without alluding to it.

    Punch was supposedly an ancestor of Barack Obama (on his mother’s side – Punch had a white wife (a fellow servant) and at some point the some of the Punch/Bunch(e) clan crossed the color line). Another Bunche was African-American diplomat and Nobel Peace Prize winner Ralph Bunche. So despite his slavery, Punch’s descendants on this side of the Atlantic probably did a whole lot better than his brother’s kids back home – that’s 2 Nobel Prize winners to 0.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    All three had indentured servant contracts. All three committed the same crime--leaving before their service time was up. Two received additional years, and then were freed, and one received a sentence of servitude for life.
  122. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/DanaGoldstein/status/1162432327903055872

    I consider it a huge responsibility with very little margin for error

    Nonsense. Laura Charlton is black. That means her “margin of error” is miles wide. The one with a narrow margin of error is Dana Goldstein. As we saw the other day with her colleague Jonathan Weisman, a Jew can blow up his career just by sucking up in not quite the right way.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Can "margin of error" be applied, at all, to a field so hostile to quantification? These people are like children who heard their parents using terms of art and they're now playing adult.
    Do you concur?
  123. @El Dato

    "There's a reason Donald Trump is using racism as a cudgel, because it's how he gets away with his corruption. That's how he steals the bag," Ocasio-Cortez said. "He's going to use racism. The reason he's trying to center issues of race, of immigration, etc. is to sink the economic agenda. He's trying to eclipse it. And the only reason that has power is because we refuse to talk about. And so race is going to be an issue, and the key is whether we're going to allow him to define that conversation, or if we're going to insert ourselves into that space and define that conversation."
     
    This doesn't make any sense.

    Except as a way to overload people's short-term memory buffers with memes so that you can pretend you said something afterwards.

    I would force candidates to draw mind maps and annotated block diagrams with arrows showing causality and relations on huge, beautiful blackboards (the old-school black ones with real excellent chalk bought from that japanese shop that closed in 2014) ON CAMERA so they can clarify what they think. That's how it is done in any context that goes beyond self-congratulatory roundtable bullshit emissions.

    If the result is a horrendous mass that looks like it's been generated by a toddler or a hypey marketing executive, a public flogging shall ensue.

    Take my money!

  124. If you’re really interested in black slavery, why go back 400 years?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_contemporary_Africa

  125. @Jack D
    I think someone here mentioned that the richest country per capita in Africa is Equatorial Guinea (due to vast oil wealth and a relatively small population) but that most Equatorial Guineans live in extreme poverty. The country ranks 135th on the Human Development Index with less than half the population having access to clean drinking water and 20% of children dying before the age of five. The reason is that this wealth is distributed extremely unevenly - a handful of elites receive most of it and the rest of the population gets almost nothing.

    I believe a similar situation (not quite as extreme) prevailed in the pre-Civil War South, especially in the Cotton Belt, with cotton being their oil. The largest slave plantations had over 1,000 slaves on them all owned by 1 master. The total wealth produced on that plantation would be very large but most of it would accrue to the master and his family and the slaves received only relative crumbs.

    total wealth produced… the slaves received only relative crumbs

    Not sure if “wealth” is profit, product, or the value of the enterprise.

    Commercial airlines spend around 45% of revenue on owning, maintaining and fueling airplanes. Seems likely slave plantations spent a similarly large portion of income on their principle means of production.

    I wonder if the average physical well being of freed slaves and their kids declined or improved after emancipation. A chart from well before the war to well after it would be nice.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    On average blacks were better off under slavery than they were for at the least another fifty years.
  126. @Anon
    Did Howard Zinn already do all this crap years ago?

    What I remember Howard Zinn doing mainly was over-focusing on a handful of stories, some true but insignificant, some probably lies or incredible, pretending no other country had similar stories, and then aping Al Pacino in Justice For All. What Max Boot is doing here is orders of magnitude less serious, intellectual, and honest than Zinn’s shtick.

  127. @Peter Frost
    In practice, the difference in punishment was almost nonexistent. The captured servants were forced to serve out the remainder of their indentured servitude plus an additional four years. The term of an indenture was typically 4 to 7 years. So they would have been in their thirties when finally freed. Keep in mind that "freedom" meant being a middle-aged single man with no home, no money, and no property.

    Life expectancy was about 35 years in 17th-century England and less than 25 years in colonial Virginia. Of course, these figures are inflated by infant mortality. On the other hand, life expectancy would have been significantly lower for a poor single man. I would estimate that the men in question either died before finishing their servitude or lived less than five years afterwards as "free" men.

    A yellow comment wasted on a reply to le corbeau.

  128. @International Jew

    I consider it a huge responsibility with very little margin for error
     
    Nonsense. Laura Charlton is black. That means her "margin of error" is miles wide. The one with a narrow margin of error is Dana Goldstein. As we saw the other day with her colleague Jonathan Weisman, a Jew can blow up his career just by sucking up in not quite the right way.

    Can “margin of error” be applied, at all, to a field so hostile to quantification? These people are like children who heard their parents using terms of art and they’re now playing adult.
    Do you concur?

  129. Just a repost from my recent comment. Shows how perspectives change…

    I went to elementary & high school when they were still Marxist in teaching history. So, we were taught that slavery was usual historical phenomenon in all ancient cultures (Greece, Rome, China, India, Islamic world, Americas,..) because, economically, such societies could exist based only on slave labor. No hard feelings, just an economic necessity.

    As for slavery in the Americas, we were taught that it was essential for early accumulation of the capital, because spices were all the rage in European economies & local Indians just wouldn’t or couldn’t (massively died from various illnesses) work on plantations, so capitalists had to import more reliable working force, in this case Africans. No one asked why Africans had to be slaves, it was somehow assumed they were primitive & could not work as paid workers; but, more importantly- it was all about profit & no moralizing there.

    In the 19th C American South was reactionary with its agriculture & slavery, so Lincoln was a good guy because he ended an antiquated economic system with no future & freed black slaves who were, by then, inhumanly treated & had, somehow, became potentially civilized, unlike their jungle predecessors.

    That was classic Marxist view.

  130. “Blekpipo: Side 1” “We been systuhmatically excluded from every area of American life”

    “Blekpipo: Side 2 ” We built ebruhthang in ‘dis whole country”

    LMAO.

  131. @Jack D
    I think someone here mentioned that the richest country per capita in Africa is Equatorial Guinea (due to vast oil wealth and a relatively small population) but that most Equatorial Guineans live in extreme poverty. The country ranks 135th on the Human Development Index with less than half the population having access to clean drinking water and 20% of children dying before the age of five. The reason is that this wealth is distributed extremely unevenly - a handful of elites receive most of it and the rest of the population gets almost nothing.

    I believe a similar situation (not quite as extreme) prevailed in the pre-Civil War South, especially in the Cotton Belt, with cotton being their oil. The largest slave plantations had over 1,000 slaves on them all owned by 1 master. The total wealth produced on that plantation would be very large but most of it would accrue to the master and his family and the slaves received only relative crumbs.

    That was my thinking, but the article I linked made two points that I think are worth repeating.
    1. The South was wealthier per capita even including slaves in the population count.
    2. Wealth inequality in the South was comparable to the North (here I think they are excluding slaves). Urban areas had high inequality which skews the numbers in the North.

    I’m sure that article is biased as well, but it seems well researched and argued so serves as a decent counterpoint to Current Year conventional thinking.

    P.S. Paleo Liberal made an important point about slave monetary value being a large component of the financial wealth of Southerners. Not sure what this analysis would look like with that backed out. Or what the most appropriate way of accounting for it would be.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    1. The South was wealthier per capita even including slaves in the population count.
     
    Just as Equatorial Guinea is the wealthiest African country even including the 99% of the population that does not share in any of that wealth. That makes the remaining 1% fabulously wealthy.

    Wealth inequality in the South was comparable to the North (here I think they are excluding slaves)
     
    Well, this is just sleight of hand. Inequality was the same, so long as you exclude the lower 1/3 of the population from one and not the other. That's just doubletalk.
  132. @res
    That was my thinking, but the article I linked made two points that I think are worth repeating.
    1. The South was wealthier per capita even including slaves in the population count.
    2. Wealth inequality in the South was comparable to the North (here I think they are excluding slaves). Urban areas had high inequality which skews the numbers in the North.

    I'm sure that article is biased as well, but it seems well researched and argued so serves as a decent counterpoint to Current Year conventional thinking.

    P.S. Paleo Liberal made an important point about slave monetary value being a large component of the financial wealth of Southerners. Not sure what this analysis would look like with that backed out. Or what the most appropriate way of accounting for it would be.

    1. The South was wealthier per capita even including slaves in the population count.

    Just as Equatorial Guinea is the wealthiest African country even including the 99% of the population that does not share in any of that wealth. That makes the remaining 1% fabulously wealthy.

    Wealth inequality in the South was comparable to the North (here I think they are excluding slaves)

    Well, this is just sleight of hand. Inequality was the same, so long as you exclude the lower 1/3 of the population from one and not the other. That’s just doubletalk.

  133. @Hank Yobo
    Might it have to do with contracts? The first two had signed indenture agreements. I doubt Punch kept his paperwork.

    “The first two had signed indenture agreements. I doubt Punch kept his paperwork.”

    LOL. All three had paperwork. All three committed a similar crime–ditching before their service time was up. Which two got additional time, followed by their release, and which one received a lifetime labor contract for the same offense?

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
    The interesting thing about the historiography of colonial slavery is that relatively little research has been done about the original seller of the slaves nor how one became an African slave in the first place. The supply side of the equation is a little murkier than the demand side. Perhaps Punch had been a prisoner of war, a criminal, or some other type of low life in Africa who chose a life of slavery to escape a more unpleasant end. At some point in his life, he found himself on a slave ship heading for the New World where his chosen lot in life continued. I believe that one African chief famously got tired of his first set of wives, sold them all off to slave traders, and then used some of the funds to start a new household. Circumstances varied widely in the African slave system.
  134. @Peter Frost
    In practice, the difference in punishment was almost nonexistent. The captured servants were forced to serve out the remainder of their indentured servitude plus an additional four years. The term of an indenture was typically 4 to 7 years. So they would have been in their thirties when finally freed. Keep in mind that "freedom" meant being a middle-aged single man with no home, no money, and no property.

    Life expectancy was about 35 years in 17th-century England and less than 25 years in colonial Virginia. Of course, these figures are inflated by infant mortality. On the other hand, life expectancy would have been significantly lower for a poor single man. I would estimate that the men in question either died before finishing their servitude or lived less than five years afterwards as "free" men.

    The two white indentured servants received the additional penalty, not the black indentured servant. He was given a sentence to work for the rest of his life. Do some investigating before trying to come off as being learned on this matter.

  135. In the days and weeks to come, we will publish essays demonstrating that nearly everything that has made America exceptional grew out of slavery.

    Actually, the reverse would be closer to the truth. Nearly everything that has made America unexceptional grew out of slavery. The Southern plantation economy neatly overlaps with the sugar islands in the Caribbean and much of Latinx America (tiny White overclass ruling over Blacks and Amerinds ). It was the North, where slavery was of little importance and Blacks were few, that made America exceptional.

    For confirmation, just look at the map showing the concentration of significant figures in the USA prior to 1950 in Murray’s HUMAN ACCOMPLISHMENT (304-305). The South is a vast blank. The states of New England plus New York, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey alone produced 184 significant figures by 1950, whereas the states that made up the Confederacy only produced 24, a ratio of more than 7:1.And, as Murray notes, the disparity becomes all the more striking when population percentages are taken into account:

    “An even more striking aspect of the map is the white space covering the American South. Although more lightly populated than the North, the American South had a substantial population throughout American history.In 1850, for example, the White population of the South was 5.6 million, compared to 8.5 million in the Northeast. In 1900 the comparison was 12.1 million to 20.6 million. By 1950, the gap had almost closed-36.9 million compared to 37.4 million.While it is understandable that the South did not have as many significant figures as the North, the magnitude of the difference goes far beyond population” (HUMAN ACCOMPLISHMENT, 304-5).

    Henry Cabot Lodge (whose 1891 survey “The Distribution of Ability in the United States” showed a similar Southern achievement gap) was quite certain that slavery was to blame:

    No finer people ever existed
    than those who settled and built up our Southern
    States, but when slavery became, in the
    course of the world’s progress, and in a free
    country, nothing less than a hideous anomaly,
    it warped the community in which it flourished,
    limited the range of intellectual activity,
    dwarfed ability, and retarded terribly the advance
    of civilization. It is wonderful that the
    people who labored beneath the burden of a
    slave system achieved as much as they did, and
    the mass of ability which they produced under
    such adverse conditions is a striking proof of
    the strength of the race. The effects of slavery
    are painfully apparent in these tables, and only
    time will enable the people who suffered by
    the evil system to recover from them.

    https://www.unz.org/Pub/Century-1891sep-00687

  136. @Jack D
    One possible distinction is that the other two are mentioned as having Indentures (written contracts detailing their term of service) while Punch doesn't seem to have one. Even though Negro servitude was probably not (it's not entirely clear) for life in the earliest days, blacks weren't voluntarily signing up for it the same way that whites did back in Scotland - he was probably kidnapped from Africa.

    Another possibility is that Punch did something more heinous than the other two while he was at large (theft, rape, etc.) and therefore the court thought that he deserved greater punishment. Maybe the court thought that they were doing him a favor by not mentioning his vile act in writing, which might have gotten him lynched or maybe,while proof was lacking, the court believed it to be true anyway and reflected it in his sentence without alluding to it.

    Punch was supposedly an ancestor of Barack Obama (on his mother's side - Punch had a white wife (a fellow servant) and at some point the some of the Punch/Bunch(e) clan crossed the color line). Another Bunche was African-American diplomat and Nobel Peace Prize winner Ralph Bunche. So despite his slavery, Punch's descendants on this side of the Atlantic probably did a whole lot better than his brother's kids back home - that's 2 Nobel Prize winners to 0.

    All three had indentured servant contracts. All three committed the same crime–leaving before their service time was up. Two received additional years, and then were freed, and one received a sentence of servitude for life.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    The Negro didn't have a contract. Read your own quote from the court decision. Read it closely.
  137. anon[227] • Disclaimer says:
    @SimpleSong
    The future of North America will play out depending on what narrative is chosen.

    1. America is about black people: every city becomes Detroit, whites as tax cattle.
    2. America is about immigrants: we end up with a population of 1 billion and an average IQ of 90. We are India or Brazil, if we are lucky.
    3. America is about a plucky and select band of upstarts and pioneers taming a wilderness and building a civilization: We find new challenges and new frontiers, and unspool a future worthy of our ancestors.

    Let's do all we can to make sure these narratives stay separate and pure. I deplore narrative mixing. I tire of people who hopped on a jet airplane (invented by whites, btw) arriving in this country, watching football on Sunday, visiting Disneyland, and acting as if they are part of the same culture that hacked a civilization out of the wilderness. I tire of the most pathetic African tinkerers being held up as great inventors. You are not an American, Sanjay, neither are you , D'*, and you never will be. Your blue passport makes you a USian, but paperwork is not DNA. The days when we were flattered by your imitation of us are long past.

    If you want to keep the narrative pure you have to keep the DNA pure. Exactly what is pure America DNA?
    The answer is of course, there is no such thing as pure American DNA.
    I can trace some but not all of my ancestors to the 18th century in the Appalachians.
    Since I can’t trace back to Jamestown or Plymouth am I not a pure American?
    If I have other ancestors that came more recently am I not a pure American?
    If Neil Armstrong has even one ancestor that came after 1900 is he not an American?
    You need to focus on behavior, not DNA, in dealing with people.
    The definiton of an American is anyone who is a legal citizen. You may not like them, but they are Americans whether you like it or not.
    You should also consider practical politics. A political movement, or an army, that appeals to all legal Americans has a chance of winning. A movement or army made up of “all people with DNA that Simple Song approves of,”has no chance of winning.

  138. @SimpleSong
    The contributions of Africans to the United States have been, on balance, negative. There are a handful of musicians who did interesting work. But most African Americans were/are dead economic weight or worse.

    If Africans are so productive, and countries can get rich off of African slavery or other forms of exploitation of African labor, then shouldn't Brazil now be much more prosperous than the US, since they received many times more slaves? Shouldn't the antebellum South have been more advanced than the North?

    Anyway.

    Public service announcement that using the Brave browser automatically bypasses the NYT paywall so you don't have to pay for your hate-reads. Also Brave has excellent tor support, which may become very useful at some point. And it was done by Brendan Eich who is a victim of political persecution. And who also reads Unz. Really, Brave is awesome.

    My ony problem with the Brave browser is that it doesn’t seem to show you what comments here are new.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    My ony problem with the Brave browser is that it doesn’t seem to show you what comments here are new.
     
    I would guess that has something to do with cookies. Email Brendan.
  139. Some interesting points:

    1. Cotton was the largest export from the U.S., but exports were only about 9 % of GDP. Similarly, cotton accounted for about 23 % of income in the South, but the South accounted for only 26% of U.S. income. See D. A. Irwin, “The Optimal Tax on Antebellum U.S. Cotton Exports,” Journal of International Economics 60(2003):287) Ultimately, the value of cotton production was equal to about 6% of GDP.

    2. The South had lower average incomes than the North; and per capita income was growing more slowly in the South even before the Civil War. See Unequal Gains by Lindert and Williamson Chapter 5. In addition, about twice as many people lived in the Union states.

    3. The more important slavery was in a country or state the lower the level of income was in the future. Nathan Nunn “Slavery, Inequality and Economic Development in the Americas: An Examination of the Engerman-Sokoloff Argument (October 2007).

    4. Slave states had lower levels of educational atainement and less innovation (measured by patents) than states without slavery. This was true even in the areas that were most like the North in geography and economic activity. See John Majewski “Why Did Northerners Oppose the Expansion of Slavery? Economic Development and Education in the Limestone South” Chapter 14 in Slavery’s Capitalism

    http://bradleyahansen.blogspot.com/2016/12/capitalism-and-slavery-debate-is-not.html

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Slave states had lower levels of educational atainement and less innovation (measured by patents) than states without slavery.
     
    Eli Whitney's patent, without which cotton couldn't pay, was essentially ignored throughout the South. Maybe planters and their suppliers didn't see a legal difference between Whitney's gin and all the others on the market, but only Whitney's worked. Some legislatures, e.g. South Carolina's, were honest enough to admit this and made reparations to him.

    (The cotton gin is one of the rare pre-1840 patents the documentation of which survives. Thanks to all the lawsuits.)

    But it wasn't enough. Whitney returned to New England to concentrate on armaments and interchangeable parts. The grandsons of the cheapskate planters paid dearly.
  140. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/DanaGoldstein/status/1161635589302751232

    Every. Fucking. Time.

  141. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1162355560941072385

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1162362863094288385

    It is deeply painful to me that anyone has a problem with black writers wanting to mark and commemorate the most atrocious thing that has ever happened to our people, which is the start of our enslavement here . . . .

    That was the BEST thing that ever happened to her people, and there’s nothing else that even comes close.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "That was the BEST thing that ever happened to her people, and there’s nothing else that even comes close."

    Only a raving lunatic would agree that human slavery was "good" for a "people". Are you a secret Epstein client?
  142. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Crossword is triggering and insensitive, bigot. The new term is Fluidword Puzzle.

    In the kinder and gentler Britain, it’s miffedword.

  143. @Peter Frost
    In practice, the difference in punishment was almost nonexistent. The captured servants were forced to serve out the remainder of their indentured servitude plus an additional four years. The term of an indenture was typically 4 to 7 years. So they would have been in their thirties when finally freed. Keep in mind that "freedom" meant being a middle-aged single man with no home, no money, and no property.

    Life expectancy was about 35 years in 17th-century England and less than 25 years in colonial Virginia. Of course, these figures are inflated by infant mortality. On the other hand, life expectancy would have been significantly lower for a poor single man. I would estimate that the men in question either died before finishing their servitude or lived less than five years afterwards as "free" men.

    Keep in mind that “freedom” meant being a middle-aged single man with no home, no money, and no property.

    Not quite. You’ve forgotten about the “freedom dues” which were an integral part of the indenture agreement. Providing you were not one of “His Majesty’s Seven (or Fourteen) Year Passengers,” a euphemism for criminals, servants were given clothing, farming implements, and land or money by their former masters. This convention was designed to give ex-servants a foothold in colonial society. Maryland’s Daniel Dulany was an example of an indentured servant who eventually made good.

  144. @David
    total wealth produced... the slaves received only relative crumbs

    Not sure if "wealth" is profit, product, or the value of the enterprise.

    Commercial airlines spend around 45% of revenue on owning, maintaining and fueling airplanes. Seems likely slave plantations spent a similarly large portion of income on their principle means of production.

    I wonder if the average physical well being of freed slaves and their kids declined or improved after emancipation. A chart from well before the war to well after it would be nice.

    On average blacks were better off under slavery than they were for at the least another fifty years.

  145. @Corvinus
    "The first two had signed indenture agreements. I doubt Punch kept his paperwork."

    LOL. All three had paperwork. All three committed a similar crime--ditching before their service time was up. Which two got additional time, followed by their release, and which one received a lifetime labor contract for the same offense?

    The interesting thing about the historiography of colonial slavery is that relatively little research has been done about the original seller of the slaves nor how one became an African slave in the first place. The supply side of the equation is a little murkier than the demand side. Perhaps Punch had been a prisoner of war, a criminal, or some other type of low life in Africa who chose a life of slavery to escape a more unpleasant end. At some point in his life, he found himself on a slave ship heading for the New World where his chosen lot in life continued. I believe that one African chief famously got tired of his first set of wives, sold them all off to slave traders, and then used some of the funds to start a new household. Circumstances varied widely in the African slave system.

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "The interesting thing about the historiography of colonial slavery is that relatively little research has been done about the original seller of the slaves nor how one became an African slave in the first place."

    Actually, there has been a great deal of research on both the sellers and buyers of slaves. Of course, it helps to have available records.

    "Perhaps Punch had been a prisoner of war, a criminal, or some other type of low life in Africa..."

    For whatever reason, you are discounting that he could have been simply a "regular person".

    "who chose a life of slavery to escape a more unpleasant end."

    Indeed, African slavery and American/European slavery are NOTICEABLY different, which is lost on a number of posters here.

    "At some point in his life, he found himself on a slave ship heading for the New World where his chosen lot in life continued."

    Chosen FOR him, not BY him.

    "I believe that one African chief famously got tired of his first set of wives, sold them all off to slave traders, and then used some of the funds to start a new household. Circumstances varied widely in the African slave system."

    Does your "belief" have a source attached to it?
  146. @Corvinus
    All three had indentured servant contracts. All three committed the same crime--leaving before their service time was up. Two received additional years, and then were freed, and one received a sentence of servitude for life.

    The Negro didn’t have a contract. Read your own quote from the court decision. Read it closely.

  147. @syonredux
    Come on, you must be a parody account......Nobody's that silly.....

    I’ve said it before. Corvinus is the middlebrow Tiny Duck.

  148. @syonredux
    Some interesting points:

    1. Cotton was the largest export from the U.S., but exports were only about 9 % of GDP. Similarly, cotton accounted for about 23 % of income in the South, but the South accounted for only 26% of U.S. income. See D. A. Irwin, “The Optimal Tax on Antebellum U.S. Cotton Exports,” Journal of International Economics 60(2003):287) Ultimately, the value of cotton production was equal to about 6% of GDP.
     

    2. The South had lower average incomes than the North; and per capita income was growing more slowly in the South even before the Civil War. See Unequal Gains by Lindert and Williamson Chapter 5. In addition, about twice as many people lived in the Union states.
     

    3. The more important slavery was in a country or state the lower the level of income was in the future. Nathan Nunn “Slavery, Inequality and Economic Development in the Americas: An Examination of the Engerman-Sokoloff Argument (October 2007).
     

    4. Slave states had lower levels of educational atainement and less innovation (measured by patents) than states without slavery. This was true even in the areas that were most like the North in geography and economic activity. See John Majewski “Why Did Northerners Oppose the Expansion of Slavery? Economic Development and Education in the Limestone South” Chapter 14 in Slavery’s Capitalism
     
    http://bradleyahansen.blogspot.com/2016/12/capitalism-and-slavery-debate-is-not.html

    Slave states had lower levels of educational atainement and less innovation (measured by patents) than states without slavery.

    Eli Whitney’s patent, without which cotton couldn’t pay, was essentially ignored throughout the South. Maybe planters and their suppliers didn’t see a legal difference between Whitney’s gin and all the others on the market, but only Whitney’s worked. Some legislatures, e.g. South Carolina’s, were honest enough to admit this and made reparations to him.

    (The cotton gin is one of the rare pre-1840 patents the documentation of which survives. Thanks to all the lawsuits.)

    But it wasn’t enough. Whitney returned to New England to concentrate on armaments and interchangeable parts. The grandsons of the cheapskate planters paid dearly.

  149. @Jack D
    I think someone here mentioned that the richest country per capita in Africa is Equatorial Guinea (due to vast oil wealth and a relatively small population) but that most Equatorial Guineans live in extreme poverty. The country ranks 135th on the Human Development Index with less than half the population having access to clean drinking water and 20% of children dying before the age of five. The reason is that this wealth is distributed extremely unevenly - a handful of elites receive most of it and the rest of the population gets almost nothing.

    I believe a similar situation (not quite as extreme) prevailed in the pre-Civil War South, especially in the Cotton Belt, with cotton being their oil. The largest slave plantations had over 1,000 slaves on them all owned by 1 master. The total wealth produced on that plantation would be very large but most of it would accrue to the master and his family and the slaves received only relative crumbs.

    Possibly the most extreme example of this in human history would be St. Domingue before the Haitian Revolution.

    Produced far and away more wealth than anywhere else on earth, to the extent that it was far more important in international politics than North America, but almost all of that wealth went to the grands blancs. Great inequality even between whites.

  150. @David
    Are you sure the southern states were wealthier? Henry Adams described traveling in the south before the war as like reverting to a destitute age.

    These are the topics in the first chapter of Hinton Helper's 1860 The Impending Crisis of the South: How to Meet It, available on Project Gutenberg.

    COMPARISON BETWEEN THE FREE AND THE SLAVE STATES
    Progress and Prosperity of the North—Inertness and Imbecility of the South—The True Cause and the Remedy—Quantity and Value of the Agricultural Products of the two Sections—Important Statistics—Wealth, Revenue, and Expenditure of the several States—Sterling Extracts and General Remarks on Free and Slave Labor—The Immediate Abolition of Slavery the True Policy of the South.

    In his autobiography, Cassius M. Clay describes being struck by how prosperous the North was compared to the South when he went up there as a young man. He became a fierce opponent of slavery largely because he felt it retarded the economic development of his native South.

    • Replies: @Pericles

    He became a fierce opponent of slavery largely because he felt it retarded the economic development of his native South.

     

    After becoming Muhammed Ali, he once noted “Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat.”
  151. @Paleo Liberal
    Consider that there was an extreme bubble in the price of slaves. The book value of slaves was the vast majority of wealth in the South, which is why there were more millionaires in the South.

    Consider a plantation owner with 200 slaves. Average value of the slaves are $5000. The man is a millionaire. Thing is, his other assets, land and money, are not worth as much.
    After the War, his slaves are gone. His Confederate dollars are worthless. His valuables may have been confiscated by Yankees or sold to support themselves during the War. His house may be burned down, or in disrepair, and is probably crowded with several generations of his extended family. Even before the War, it was common for entire families to live in one room in the plantation mansion. All he has left is his land. His children may have absolutely nothing.

    For my ancestors, none of my mother’s grand parents attended college, but both her grandfathers were the sons of doctors who were the second or later sons of plantation owners. After the War, the families had absolutely nothing.

    I think the comment about Confederate dollars isn’t often discussed. The Southern banking system was converted to Confederate money after secession. So, the banking system more or less collapsed when the South lost. There was no Southern bank to get a loan from. And every patriotic Southerner – and bank – who put their money in Confederate bonds – lost it all. There was a massive shortage of investment capital. Plus, the British after 1865, put their investment money in developing the West and Midwest. The South came 3rd.

  152. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/MaraGay/status/1161401966167298054

    How shall I say it?: Just so gay!

  153. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/MaraGay/status/1161401966167298054

    Who sold America the slaves in 1619? Jews, Negros?

  154. @Anon
    Did Howard Zinn already do all this crap years ago?

    Invader Zinn.

  155. @Jack D
    I think someone here mentioned that the richest country per capita in Africa is Equatorial Guinea (due to vast oil wealth and a relatively small population) but that most Equatorial Guineans live in extreme poverty. The country ranks 135th on the Human Development Index with less than half the population having access to clean drinking water and 20% of children dying before the age of five. The reason is that this wealth is distributed extremely unevenly - a handful of elites receive most of it and the rest of the population gets almost nothing.

    I believe a similar situation (not quite as extreme) prevailed in the pre-Civil War South, especially in the Cotton Belt, with cotton being their oil. The largest slave plantations had over 1,000 slaves on them all owned by 1 master. The total wealth produced on that plantation would be very large but most of it would accrue to the master and his family and the slaves received only relative crumbs.

    The largest slave plantations had over 1,000 slaves on them all owned by 1 master. The total wealth produced on that plantation would be very large but most of it would accrue to the master and his family and the slaves received only relative crumbs.

    What’s the profit margin on cotton again?

    I’d expect the plantations, had they lacked slaves, to instead invent seasonal labor with a latinx work force, and of course wage slavery where applicable. That way, the non-slaves get to feed and house themselves and only get paid when they work. Cost control.

  156. @Harry Baldwin
    In his autobiography, Cassius M. Clay describes being struck by how prosperous the North was compared to the South when he went up there as a young man. He became a fierce opponent of slavery largely because he felt it retarded the economic development of his native South.

    He became a fierce opponent of slavery largely because he felt it retarded the economic development of his native South.

    After becoming Muhammed Ali, he once noted “Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat.”

  157. @Vinteuil
    My ony problem with the Brave browser is that it doesn't seem to show you what comments here are new.

    My ony problem with the Brave browser is that it doesn’t seem to show you what comments here are new.

    I would guess that has something to do with cookies. Email Brendan.

  158. Sounds like a middle school project for Diversity Week.

  159. @Hank Yobo
    The interesting thing about the historiography of colonial slavery is that relatively little research has been done about the original seller of the slaves nor how one became an African slave in the first place. The supply side of the equation is a little murkier than the demand side. Perhaps Punch had been a prisoner of war, a criminal, or some other type of low life in Africa who chose a life of slavery to escape a more unpleasant end. At some point in his life, he found himself on a slave ship heading for the New World where his chosen lot in life continued. I believe that one African chief famously got tired of his first set of wives, sold them all off to slave traders, and then used some of the funds to start a new household. Circumstances varied widely in the African slave system.

    “The interesting thing about the historiography of colonial slavery is that relatively little research has been done about the original seller of the slaves nor how one became an African slave in the first place.”

    Actually, there has been a great deal of research on both the sellers and buyers of slaves. Of course, it helps to have available records.

    “Perhaps Punch had been a prisoner of war, a criminal, or some other type of low life in Africa…”

    For whatever reason, you are discounting that he could have been simply a “regular person”.

    “who chose a life of slavery to escape a more unpleasant end.”

    Indeed, African slavery and American/European slavery are NOTICEABLY different, which is lost on a number of posters here.

    “At some point in his life, he found himself on a slave ship heading for the New World where his chosen lot in life continued.”

    Chosen FOR him, not BY him.

    “I believe that one African chief famously got tired of his first set of wives, sold them all off to slave traders, and then used some of the funds to start a new household. Circumstances varied widely in the African slave system.”

    Does your “belief” have a source attached to it?

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
    Actually, no, there has not been a lot of research about the supply side of the Atlantic slave trade because of a dearth in African records compared to European sources. That is why I used the word "relatively" in my sentence. English can be a nuanced language. I "believe," meaning, I read, if my memory hasn't failed me, the statement about the libidinous African chief in Thornton's seminal work. Or, I encountered it in Curtin's. I'm sure that you are aware of both scholars and their publications. If you aren't, then . . .
    , @Curmudgeon

    Indeed, African slavery and American/European slavery are NOTICEABLY different, which is lost on a number of posters here
     
    It depends on what you consider "different". Is it African Chiefs selling their slaves to slave traders as opposed to being a court ordered slavery?

    https://www.electricscotland.com/history/other/white_slavery.htm
  160. @syonredux
    Come on, you must be a parody account......Nobody's that silly.....

    No parody, just the stone cold truth. I don’t expect you or Icy Blast or theoldnorth or Mr. Anon to be able to intellectually handle it.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    No parody, just the stone cold truth. I don’t expect you or Icy Blast or theoldnorth or Mr. Anon to be able to intellectually handle it.
     
    Look, you're overdoing it. Effective parody is subtle. Tone it down a notch, and people might stop thinking that you are a parody account..
  161. @ben tillman

    It is deeply painful to me that anyone has a problem with black writers wanting to mark and commemorate the most atrocious thing that has ever happened to our people, which is the start of our enslavement here . . . .
     
    That was the BEST thing that ever happened to her people, and there's nothing else that even comes close.

    “That was the BEST thing that ever happened to her people, and there’s nothing else that even comes close.”

    Only a raving lunatic would agree that human slavery was “good” for a “people”. Are you a secret Epstein client?

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    It's a straightforward and undeniable fact, you stupid troll.
    , @William Badwhite
    Wells is not and has never been a slave. Without slavery she and her people would still be in Africa, living like Africans. Instead here she has a comfy job lecturing white people on topics on which she is only marginally knowledgeable. Even Cassius Clay understood what you don't - slavery was the best thing that ever happened to today's American blacks.

    Here's one interesting difference between Wells and you. Wells get paid to be a repetitive, dimwitted mediocrity. You do it for free.
  162. @Corvinus
    No parody, just the stone cold truth. I don't expect you or Icy Blast or theoldnorth or Mr. Anon to be able to intellectually handle it.

    No parody, just the stone cold truth. I don’t expect you or Icy Blast or theoldnorth or Mr. Anon to be able to intellectually handle it.

    Look, you’re overdoing it. Effective parody is subtle. Tone it down a notch, and people might stop thinking that you are a parody account..

  163. @istevefan
    They always like to say the legacy of slavery affects blacks to this day. Well it sure as hell affects Whites. Whites have had to, and will continue to have to, live with the consequences of an unassimilable legacy slave population.

    They say no amount of dollars could be given as reparations. Well I doubt they could accurately tabulate the costs Whites have endured in lost property value, moving expenses, taxes, affirmative action, physical harm, etc., etc. And this is not even factoring in the death and the destruction of the war in 1861.

    I don't know of any other people who have tried to make amends for slavery on par with what American Whites have done. And yet the more we do, the more they demand. We should be more like the Arabs on this issue.

    Whites have had to, and will continue to have to, live with the consequences of an unassimilable legacy slave population.

    Apt summary.

    And we are hectored to do even more, in service to some vague day in the future when Blacks will all of a sudden become equal. I feel like we’re building a temple to a Sky god, in hopes of luring him to Earth; but he never shows up, so we are told to build even higher and more lavishly in order to please. A few of us are expressing skepticism about the existence of such a god, but the priesthood is on it and suppresses such chatter.

  164. @MEH 0910

    Read Nikole Hannah Jones
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikole_Hannah-Jones

    Nikole Hannah-Jones (born April 9, 1976)[1][2] is an American investigative journalist[3] known for her coverage of civil rights in the United States. In April 2015, she became a staff writer for The New York Times.[4]

    ******
    Hannah-Jones grew up in Waterloo, Iowa, to father Milton Hannah, who is African-American, and mother Cheryl A. Novotny, who is of Czech and English descent.[5]

    ******
    In early 2015, Nikole Hannah-Jones, along with Ron Nixon, Corey Johnson, and Topher Sanders, began dreaming of creating the Ida B. Wells Society for Investigative Reporting.[29] This organization was launched in Memphis, Tennessee in 2016, with the purpose of promoting investigative journalism, which is the least common type of reporting.[29] Following in the footsteps of Ida B. Wells, this society encourages minority journalists to expose injustices perpetuated by the government and defend people who are susceptible to being taken advantage of.[29] This organization was created with much support from the Open Society Foundations, Ford Foundation, and CUNY Graduate School of Journalism.[29]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_B._Wells

    Ida Bell Wells-Barnett (July 16, 1862 – March 25, 1931) was an African-American investigative journalist, educator, and an early leader in the civil rights movement. She was one of the founders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP).[1] She arguably became the most famous black woman in America, during a life that was centered on combating prejudice and violence, who fought for equality for African Americans, especially women.[2]
     
    Nikole Hannah-Jones adopts the moniker Ida Bae Wells on Twitter:

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones?lang=eng
    https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1000118161574977536/MJ-FExjk_400x400.jpg

    Ida Bae Wells
    @nhannahjones

    Reporter @nytmag covering race in the U.S. from 1619-present//AKA The Beyoncé of Journalism//Co-founder idabwellssociety.org //smart and thuggish//

     

    Nikole Hannah Jones

    Hits all the targets:

    Half-blood

    Raised in the white world

    Various grievance degrees from college

    Writes about Blackness

  165. @Corvinus
    "The interesting thing about the historiography of colonial slavery is that relatively little research has been done about the original seller of the slaves nor how one became an African slave in the first place."

    Actually, there has been a great deal of research on both the sellers and buyers of slaves. Of course, it helps to have available records.

    "Perhaps Punch had been a prisoner of war, a criminal, or some other type of low life in Africa..."

    For whatever reason, you are discounting that he could have been simply a "regular person".

    "who chose a life of slavery to escape a more unpleasant end."

    Indeed, African slavery and American/European slavery are NOTICEABLY different, which is lost on a number of posters here.

    "At some point in his life, he found himself on a slave ship heading for the New World where his chosen lot in life continued."

    Chosen FOR him, not BY him.

    "I believe that one African chief famously got tired of his first set of wives, sold them all off to slave traders, and then used some of the funds to start a new household. Circumstances varied widely in the African slave system."

    Does your "belief" have a source attached to it?

    Actually, no, there has not been a lot of research about the supply side of the Atlantic slave trade because of a dearth in African records compared to European sources. That is why I used the word “relatively” in my sentence. English can be a nuanced language. I “believe,” meaning, I read, if my memory hasn’t failed me, the statement about the libidinous African chief in Thornton’s seminal work. Or, I encountered it in Curtin’s. I’m sure that you are aware of both scholars and their publications. If you aren’t, then . . .

  166. @Corvinus
    I will do you one better.

    Re Negro John Punch, July 1640. “Whereas Hugh Gwyn hath...brought back from Maryland three servants formerly run away...the court doth therefore order that the three said servants shall receive the punishment of whipping and thirty stripes apiece one called Victor, a Dutchman, the other a Scotchman called James Gregory, shall first serve out their times with their master according to their Indentures, and one whole year apiece after the time of their service is expired...and after that service...to serve the colony for three whole years apiece, and that the third being a negro named
    John Punch shall serve his said master or his assigns for the time of his natural life here or elsewhere.”

    I will assume, at my own peril, that you are an educated (white) man. Please respond to this question--Why is this court case a precedent in the history of slavery in America? Focus on the difference in the punishments the white escapees and the black escapee had received.

    All “slaves” were indentured servants. This was a judgement for breach of indenture. Whether the punishment was equal is unknown to us, and whether the punishment fit the crime, is also unknown to us. Differential punishments were common then, and common now.

    In Johnson’s case, he had acquired a black slave, John Casor, from another owner, and after a short period of time, was urged by his White neighbors to free Casor, as he had served his indenture. Johnson freed Casor, then sued his neighbors claiming that he was pressured into freeing Casor, and that he, as the slave owner, should be allowed to determine the length of indenture. He was successful. Casor was re-enslaved. Johnson’s two White slaves, and all other slave were affected. It was the beginning of slavery for life.

    What no one wants to talk about is the approximately 2.5 million Europeans enslaved by the Corsairs raiding coastal towns and villages throughout the Mediterranean and Black Seas as well as along the Atlantic coast as far north as Iceland. While some were ransomed back, most were slaves for life. White women were a prize for harems – essentially sex slaves. Can’t talk about that though, it would be Islamophobic.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "All “slaves” were indentured servants. This was a judgement for breach of indenture."

    You are simply clueless. Slaves and indentured servants were two separate classes. Get a frickin' grip.

    "Whether the punishment was equal is unknown to us, and whether the punishment fit the crime, is also unknown to us. Differential punishments were common then, and common now."

    The point is that the same crime was committed, which would warrant the same punishment. What is different here is that one person received a totally harsher consequences compared to the two other people. It is clear as day as to the reason why.
  167. @Corvinus
    "The interesting thing about the historiography of colonial slavery is that relatively little research has been done about the original seller of the slaves nor how one became an African slave in the first place."

    Actually, there has been a great deal of research on both the sellers and buyers of slaves. Of course, it helps to have available records.

    "Perhaps Punch had been a prisoner of war, a criminal, or some other type of low life in Africa..."

    For whatever reason, you are discounting that he could have been simply a "regular person".

    "who chose a life of slavery to escape a more unpleasant end."

    Indeed, African slavery and American/European slavery are NOTICEABLY different, which is lost on a number of posters here.

    "At some point in his life, he found himself on a slave ship heading for the New World where his chosen lot in life continued."

    Chosen FOR him, not BY him.

    "I believe that one African chief famously got tired of his first set of wives, sold them all off to slave traders, and then used some of the funds to start a new household. Circumstances varied widely in the African slave system."

    Does your "belief" have a source attached to it?

    Indeed, African slavery and American/European slavery are NOTICEABLY different, which is lost on a number of posters here

    It depends on what you consider “different”. Is it African Chiefs selling their slaves to slave traders as opposed to being a court ordered slavery?

    https://www.electricscotland.com/history/other/white_slavery.htm

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "It depends on what you consider “different”. Is it African Chiefs selling their slaves to slave traders as opposed to being a court ordered slavery?"

    Read and learn about the differences.

    http://www.discoveringbristol.org.uk/slavery/people-involved/enslaved-people/enslaved-africans/africa-slavery/

    http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/repatriation/index.cgi?md=read;id=34666
  168. @Corvinus
    Sailer’s Folly--Whenever there is some pattern to be NOTICED, despite historians, economics, sociologists, and political scientists having explained it clearly and concisely in the past, it is done in a manner that is mind-numbingly stupefying.

    The only retCONing going on here is done compliments of our dear author by way of his false premise. Nations have several beginning points, i.e. "true foundings", in distinct areas. A striking implication in those various "true foundings" is how our American society is unified in terms of an implicit (tacit practices) ethos, as well as a division across historical periods and geographic regions through an explicit (our values and the behaviors guided by them) ethos. From this framework, the year 1619 signifies America's "true founding" as a nation that was separated according to race by way of the "peculiar institution". The year 1883 signifies America's "true founding" as a nation that was coming into its own through an amalgamation of ethnic groups. Interwoven here is how enslaved Africans and newcomers to our land both shared a fierce independence to keep alive their past heritages, as well as a resignation to succumb to the forces of assimilation and accommodation by way of their shared values--self-direction, self-reliance, and self-expression. In a way, the African and European immigrant experiences collided--both experienced hardship and disdain from the native population, yet overcame those privations to forge something that was the envy of the civilized world. Their separate stories is interwoven into the fabric of our American ethos.

    "Americans are so enamored with equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom".--Alexis de Tocqueville

    "There is an emotional constitution that Americans has. There is an emotional reality that we all share that we all share like the New Colossus."--Stephen Colbert

    "America Is Made Out of Cotton”.

    "Sugar candy", Mr. Sailer. It's sugar candy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkIyBC9SO3Q

    as well as a resignation to succumb to the forces of assimilation

    That’s a hoot. Blacks have resisted assimilation every step of the way, and the simple proof of that is the near-universal rejection of anything which bears the scent of Whiteness. For where and when Blacks fail to measure up, the excuse for their failure is blamed on “White privilege”.

    They ought to be thankful their ancestors were brought here in the first instance. No, slavery isn’t the best state of affairs, but being here in America sure worked out well for the descendants of slaves.

    In the words of Washington Post correspondent, Keith Richburg, reporting from Africa in the 90s, “There but for the grace of God go I.”

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "They ought to be thankful their ancestors were brought here in the first instance. No, slavery isn’t the best state of affairs, but being here in America sure worked out well for the descendants of slaves."

    No, they are not thanking their ancestors for being subjugated and being brought to a strange land. What would have worked out well is if the South picked their own damn cotton and leaving the hell alone the darkies, who were perfectly content living their own civilized life.
  169. @istevefan
    They always like to say the legacy of slavery affects blacks to this day. Well it sure as hell affects Whites. Whites have had to, and will continue to have to, live with the consequences of an unassimilable legacy slave population.

    They say no amount of dollars could be given as reparations. Well I doubt they could accurately tabulate the costs Whites have endured in lost property value, moving expenses, taxes, affirmative action, physical harm, etc., etc. And this is not even factoring in the death and the destruction of the war in 1861.

    I don't know of any other people who have tried to make amends for slavery on par with what American Whites have done. And yet the more we do, the more they demand. We should be more like the Arabs on this issue.

    Hands down best comment on this thread.

  170. @Tiny Duck
    The truth is that white peoples have contributed nothing to America any good

    we need white people right now to do the work of racial and economic justice

    https://www.newsweek.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-white-people-do-work-pod-save-america-1454579?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

    Read Nikole Hannah Jones

    If only there was a way to make it so it was the African slaves and people like (((Boot))) that started democracy here and that this was all their idea instead of just being carried along like a cultural sack of potatoes for the last 400 years. No Max, you unwelcome unneeded twit, 1,000,000 years can go by and we will never let you take that from us and there is nothing you can ever do to change it.

    I will give this to you Max, Jews own the Old Testament and no one can ever take that from them either. You can take pride in that. I do too. But as the fake Russian that you are you are probably quite aware of the tale of the Master and the Margarita. Retconning history does not work in the long run and all you do is make enemies of the worst kind. By playing with other people’s past all you are playing with fire.

  171. @Corvinus
    "That was the BEST thing that ever happened to her people, and there’s nothing else that even comes close."

    Only a raving lunatic would agree that human slavery was "good" for a "people". Are you a secret Epstein client?

    It’s a straightforward and undeniable fact, you stupid troll.

    • Agree: 95Theses
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "It’s a straightforward and undeniable fact, you stupid troll."

    No, it's your opinion, and it's lunatic. The best thing that would have happened is that the South would have picked their own damn cotton, rather than ripping others from their homeland and transport them thousands of miles away to do that brute force labor for them.
  172. Anonymous[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike_from_SGV
    I think the manic obsession with all things Black (slavery, reparations, etc) may be a sign that they are running scared, and the hustle is about to end. When the US is no longer dominated by easily-manipulated whites, but instead is more and more controlled by Asians, Mexicans and others who don't give a sh*t about Holy Black History (peace be upon it), they will find that no one cares about their complaints. These next couple of decades may be their last chance to monetize their privilege.

    It’s in the interest of new arrivals to America to at least feign indignation over slavery and Jim Crow (and mistreatment of the Indians) because it morally delegitimizes the founders of the country, and undermines the claims of their descendants that America belongs to them. (The same reason this issue has been so important to Jews in the past.)

    In other words, we’re going to be hearing a lot more, not less, about the crimes of white people against blacks as the country becomes less white.

  173. @Curmudgeon

    Indeed, African slavery and American/European slavery are NOTICEABLY different, which is lost on a number of posters here
     
    It depends on what you consider "different". Is it African Chiefs selling their slaves to slave traders as opposed to being a court ordered slavery?

    https://www.electricscotland.com/history/other/white_slavery.htm

    “It depends on what you consider “different”. Is it African Chiefs selling their slaves to slave traders as opposed to being a court ordered slavery?”

    Read and learn about the differences.

    http://www.discoveringbristol.org.uk/slavery/people-involved/enslaved-people/enslaved-africans/africa-slavery/

    http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/repatriation/index.cgi?md=read;id=34666

  174. @ben tillman
    It's a straightforward and undeniable fact, you stupid troll.

    “It’s a straightforward and undeniable fact, you stupid troll.”

    No, it’s your opinion, and it’s lunatic. The best thing that would have happened is that the South would have picked their own damn cotton, rather than ripping others from their homeland and transport them thousands of miles away to do that brute force labor for them.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    No, it’s your opinion, and it’s lunatic. The best thing that would have happened is that the South would have picked their own damn cotton, rather than ripping others from their homeland and transport them thousands of miles away to do that brute force labor for them.
     
    Sure. Everybody knows that an Anglo-America with no Blacks would be a vastly better place.
  175. @Corvinus
    "That was the BEST thing that ever happened to her people, and there’s nothing else that even comes close."

    Only a raving lunatic would agree that human slavery was "good" for a "people". Are you a secret Epstein client?

    Wells is not and has never been a slave. Without slavery she and her people would still be in Africa, living like Africans. Instead here she has a comfy job lecturing white people on topics on which she is only marginally knowledgeable. Even Cassius Clay understood what you don’t – slavery was the best thing that ever happened to today’s American blacks.

    Here’s one interesting difference between Wells and you. Wells get paid to be a repetitive, dimwitted mediocrity. You do it for free.

  176. @Curmudgeon
    All "slaves" were indentured servants. This was a judgement for breach of indenture. Whether the punishment was equal is unknown to us, and whether the punishment fit the crime, is also unknown to us. Differential punishments were common then, and common now.

    In Johnson's case, he had acquired a black slave, John Casor, from another owner, and after a short period of time, was urged by his White neighbors to free Casor, as he had served his indenture. Johnson freed Casor, then sued his neighbors claiming that he was pressured into freeing Casor, and that he, as the slave owner, should be allowed to determine the length of indenture. He was successful. Casor was re-enslaved. Johnson's two White slaves, and all other slave were affected. It was the beginning of slavery for life.

    What no one wants to talk about is the approximately 2.5 million Europeans enslaved by the Corsairs raiding coastal towns and villages throughout the Mediterranean and Black Seas as well as along the Atlantic coast as far north as Iceland. While some were ransomed back, most were slaves for life. White women were a prize for harems - essentially sex slaves. Can't talk about that though, it would be Islamophobic.

    “All “slaves” were indentured servants. This was a judgement for breach of indenture.”

    You are simply clueless. Slaves and indentured servants were two separate classes. Get a frickin’ grip.

    “Whether the punishment was equal is unknown to us, and whether the punishment fit the crime, is also unknown to us. Differential punishments were common then, and common now.”

    The point is that the same crime was committed, which would warrant the same punishment. What is different here is that one person received a totally harsher consequences compared to the two other people. It is clear as day as to the reason why.

  177. @95Theses

    as well as a resignation to succumb to the forces of assimilation
     
    That's a hoot. Blacks have resisted assimilation every step of the way, and the simple proof of that is the near-universal rejection of anything which bears the scent of Whiteness. For where and when Blacks fail to measure up, the excuse for their failure is blamed on "White privilege".

    They ought to be thankful their ancestors were brought here in the first instance. No, slavery isn't the best state of affairs, but being here in America sure worked out well for the descendants of slaves.

    In the words of Washington Post correspondent, Keith Richburg, reporting from Africa in the 90s, "There but for the grace of God go I."

    “They ought to be thankful their ancestors were brought here in the first instance. No, slavery isn’t the best state of affairs, but being here in America sure worked out well for the descendants of slaves.”

    No, they are not thanking their ancestors for being subjugated and being brought to a strange land. What would have worked out well is if the South picked their own damn cotton and leaving the hell alone the darkies, who were perfectly content living their own civilized life.

    • Replies: @95Theses
    Then what else could Richburg have meant? My guess is that you haven't the slights idea who he is or or the book from which that quote is derived.
  178. @Corvinus
    "It’s a straightforward and undeniable fact, you stupid troll."

    No, it's your opinion, and it's lunatic. The best thing that would have happened is that the South would have picked their own damn cotton, rather than ripping others from their homeland and transport them thousands of miles away to do that brute force labor for them.

    No, it’s your opinion, and it’s lunatic. The best thing that would have happened is that the South would have picked their own damn cotton, rather than ripping others from their homeland and transport them thousands of miles away to do that brute force labor for them.

    Sure. Everybody knows that an Anglo-America with no Blacks would be a vastly better place.

    • Replies: @95Theses
    Amen! to that. Oh, if only.
  179. @Corvinus
    "They ought to be thankful their ancestors were brought here in the first instance. No, slavery isn’t the best state of affairs, but being here in America sure worked out well for the descendants of slaves."

    No, they are not thanking their ancestors for being subjugated and being brought to a strange land. What would have worked out well is if the South picked their own damn cotton and leaving the hell alone the darkies, who were perfectly content living their own civilized life.

    Then what else could Richburg have meant? My guess is that you haven’t the slights idea who he is or or the book from which that quote is derived.

  180. @syonredux

    No, it’s your opinion, and it’s lunatic. The best thing that would have happened is that the South would have picked their own damn cotton, rather than ripping others from their homeland and transport them thousands of miles away to do that brute force labor for them.
     
    Sure. Everybody knows that an Anglo-America with no Blacks would be a vastly better place.

    Amen! to that. Oh, if only.

  181. Who is going to win this struggle for dominance?

    My, my, my. Oh dearie me, no.

    Win’ and ‘dominance’ are SPM (StalePaleMale) hate-speech now – not to be spoken, written or even thought, unless you are in an appropriate cell on the intersectional oppression spreadsheet.

    And as for being a ‘struggle’? Isn’t that English for “Kampf”, as in “Mein”?

    You’re exposing not only rampant racialism, misogyny and transphobia, but almost certainly antisemitism. Just.Like.Hitler.

    Scratch that – how dare I. Antisemitism’s always a given. In fact, through the miracle of modern pseudoscience, it is now understood that (((YKW))) genes alter epigenetically in the face of the vicissitudes of life, and hence a middle-class modern RSP aged 25 can take offence if someone called one of their ancestors a kike. Yea, verily, unto the thirtieth generation.

    As to how the parallel-but-both-obviously-true-the-science-is-settled narratives can be reconciled? Simple. Through consensus, giving due weight and respect to the views of all stakeholders, celebrating their respective cultures while noting their totally-valid historic grievances. (You and me ain’t stakeholders, habib: we’re just the ones who foot the bill).

  182. @MEH 0910

    Read Nikole Hannah Jones
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikole_Hannah-Jones

    Nikole Hannah-Jones (born April 9, 1976)[1][2] is an American investigative journalist[3] known for her coverage of civil rights in the United States. In April 2015, she became a staff writer for The New York Times.[4]

    ******
    Hannah-Jones grew up in Waterloo, Iowa, to father Milton Hannah, who is African-American, and mother Cheryl A. Novotny, who is of Czech and English descent.[5]

    ******
    In early 2015, Nikole Hannah-Jones, along with Ron Nixon, Corey Johnson, and Topher Sanders, began dreaming of creating the Ida B. Wells Society for Investigative Reporting.[29] This organization was launched in Memphis, Tennessee in 2016, with the purpose of promoting investigative journalism, which is the least common type of reporting.[29] Following in the footsteps of Ida B. Wells, this society encourages minority journalists to expose injustices perpetuated by the government and defend people who are susceptible to being taken advantage of.[29] This organization was created with much support from the Open Society Foundations, Ford Foundation, and CUNY Graduate School of Journalism.[29]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_B._Wells

    Ida Bell Wells-Barnett (July 16, 1862 – March 25, 1931) was an African-American investigative journalist, educator, and an early leader in the civil rights movement. She was one of the founders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP).[1] She arguably became the most famous black woman in America, during a life that was centered on combating prejudice and violence, who fought for equality for African Americans, especially women.[2]
     
    Nikole Hannah-Jones adopts the moniker Ida Bae Wells on Twitter:

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones?lang=eng
    https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1000118161574977536/MJ-FExjk_400x400.jpg

    Ida Bae Wells
    @nhannahjones

    Reporter @nytmag covering race in the U.S. from 1619-present//AKA The Beyoncé of Journalism//Co-founder idabwellssociety.org //smart and thuggish//

     

    Nikole Hannah-Jones is also a “genius”:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikole_Hannah-Jones#Awards

    • 2017: MacArthur Foundation “Genius Award” [28]

    https://www.macfound.org/fellows/988/

  183. @MEH 0910

    Read Nikole Hannah Jones
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikole_Hannah-Jones

    Nikole Hannah-Jones (born April 9, 1976)[1][2] is an American investigative journalist[3] known for her coverage of civil rights in the United States. In April 2015, she became a staff writer for The New York Times.[4]

    ******
    Hannah-Jones grew up in Waterloo, Iowa, to father Milton Hannah, who is African-American, and mother Cheryl A. Novotny, who is of Czech and English descent.[5]

    ******
    In early 2015, Nikole Hannah-Jones, along with Ron Nixon, Corey Johnson, and Topher Sanders, began dreaming of creating the Ida B. Wells Society for Investigative Reporting.[29] This organization was launched in Memphis, Tennessee in 2016, with the purpose of promoting investigative journalism, which is the least common type of reporting.[29] Following in the footsteps of Ida B. Wells, this society encourages minority journalists to expose injustices perpetuated by the government and defend people who are susceptible to being taken advantage of.[29] This organization was created with much support from the Open Society Foundations, Ford Foundation, and CUNY Graduate School of Journalism.[29]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_B._Wells

    Ida Bell Wells-Barnett (July 16, 1862 – March 25, 1931) was an African-American investigative journalist, educator, and an early leader in the civil rights movement. She was one of the founders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP).[1] She arguably became the most famous black woman in America, during a life that was centered on combating prejudice and violence, who fought for equality for African Americans, especially women.[2]
     
    Nikole Hannah-Jones adopts the moniker Ida Bae Wells on Twitter:

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones?lang=eng
    https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1000118161574977536/MJ-FExjk_400x400.jpg

    Ida Bae Wells
    @nhannahjones

    Reporter @nytmag covering race in the U.S. from 1619-present//AKA The Beyoncé of Journalism//Co-founder idabwellssociety.org //smart and thuggish//

     

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