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The Not So Great Reset: Record Numbers of Dumb Rich Kids Are Applying to Harvard and Berkeley
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From the Washington Post news section:

Applications surge after big-name colleges halt SAT and ACT testing rules

By Nick Anderson
Jan. 29, 2021 at 1:28 p.m. PST

The University of Virginia drew a record 48,000 applications for the next class in Charlottesville — about 15 percent more than the year before.

Freshman applications to the University of California at Berkeley crossed into six figures for the first time, totaling more than 112,000, up 28 percent. Harvard University’s total spiked to an all-time high of 57,000. That’s up 42 percent.

The sudden explosion in demand for these and other big-name schools is another ripple effect of the coronavirus pandemic that could reshape college admissions for many years to come. The pandemic has given huge — and in some places, decisive — momentum to a movement to reduce or even eliminate the use of admissions testing at highly competitive colleges and universities. That, in turn, has lured more applicants to the upper tier of the market.

U-Va. and Harvard were among a large bloc of schools that temporarily suspended their requirements for SAT or ACT scores because the public health emergency prevented many college-bound students from taking the exams. Students could choose whether to send scores to these schools under a policy known as “test-optional.”

… Harvard said Friday it will be test-optional for one more year — covering those who are now high school juniors — and reiterated that those who do not submit scores “will not be disadvantaged in the application process.”

Assuming that in lieu of your test scores you submit a Jared Kushner-sized donation to the Harvard Development Office. Do you really think that if you don’t submit your test scores that Harvard will automatically assume you would have gotten perfect 800s? Harvard hasn’t been on top of the American college game since 1636 by being stupid.

Berkeley, on the other hand …

UC-Berkeley has taken a more radical step. It removed the SAT and ACT from admission decisions, a policy known as “test-free” or “test-blind.”

In other words, you are not allowed to submit your test scores to Berkeley.

A state court last fall ordered the UC system to apply that policy across all its campuses for this year’s applicants. The system’s approach to admission testing for coming years is still in some flux, but the UC governing board voted in the spring to phase out the SAT and ACT.

The plan is to ban the SAT and ACT now and in a few years introduce a brand new U. of California-devised nonracist test that has the same predictive validity as the old racist tests, but on which blacks and Latinos score as well as Asians. Why didn’t anybody ever think of inventing that before? How hard could it be?

Olufemi Ogundele, UC-Berkeley’s director of undergraduate admissions, said the university also broadened its digital outreach to develop a strong and diverse applicant pool.

Let me guess that either Olufemi Ogundele or his parents aced a college admissions test back in Africa, which is what set him on his way to his fabulous career dismantling college admissions testing in the USA.

… Application totals fell modestly at public universities with fewer than 10,000 undergraduates and at small private colleges that tend to admit most applicants.

There was also a 2 percent dip in applicants with enough financial need to receive fee waivers, and a 3 percent drop in those who would be among the first in their families to go to college. Jenny Rickard, president and chief executive of the Common App, said she was “very concerned” about those declines.

But the Common App found a surge of applications to schools with national and global reputations. At large public universities, including state flagships, totals rose more than 11 percent. At private schools with more selective admissions, they rose more than 17 percent.

In other words, lots of dumb kids from upscale families are trying to get into fancy colleges that they wouldn’t have bothered taking a flyer on when test scores were required.

 
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  1. Time for Binyamin Kenobitz to go back to school for a real life Community reboot!

  2. The whole system relies on Whites – and Asians – playing by the rules, but the rules are quickly losing their legitimacy.

    Screw them. Put down black or Hispanic. That’s what I tell my kids. Throw sand in the gears.

    Who cares? The system hates Whites. Why would we respect it?

    What say you, Steve? Respect the system that hates you or not? Time to stop being the joker, chose a side.

    • Agree: Alden, Achmed E. Newman
    • Disagree: Corvinus
    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    "Time to stop being the joker, chose [sic] a side."

    Can't speak for the Steves; the Steves are going to do what they're going to do. Politically speaking I will remain non-aligned because duality is a dead-end. Both sides are funded by the same source. And since I can't shoot and stab my way out of this cave of devils the Joker is the only card to play.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Ozymandias

    , @Richard B
    @Citizen of a Silly Country


    What say you, Steve?
     
    Here's one thing he says:

    Harvard hasn’t been on top of the American college game since 1636 by being stupid.
     
    It would be more accurate to say that Harvard has been on top of the American college game since the 1960's by promoting stupid. Thereby turning The Ivy League into The Poison Ivy League. An A at Harvard stands for Average and has for a long time.

    Since most, if not all, of our educational institutions follow Harvard's lead, and since our governmental and economic institutions follow our educational institutions, the deterioration in our educational institutions has led to a corresponding deterioration of the rest of our social institutions.

    And since social institutions are properly seen as any civilization's means of adaptation, the deterioration of our social institutions as a consequence of promoting stupid has led to the collapse of our civilization. A fact proven on every street corner. Just look around.

    How smart is that?

  3. Here’s the beauty of it- getting more rich dumb kids to apply and rejecting them actually makes the school look MORE exclusive. The smaller percentage of admitted applicants will help boost the school’s perception of eliteness and the school’s US News ranking, particularly if you assume that the advantage of higher test scores in terms of USNWR rankings is limited by all the elite schools already having maxed out test scores for their admitted applicants.

    The Service Academies and lower-tier colleges play these sort of applicant pool games to boost their standing. Harvard will probably be able to cement its place at the top… more than it already has, anyway.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Nathan


    Here’s the beauty of it- getting more rich dumb kids to apply and rejecting them actually makes the school look MORE exclusive. The smaller percentage of admitted applicants will help boost the school’s perception of eliteness and the school’s US News ranking, particularly if you assume that the advantage of higher test scores in terms of USNWR rankings is limited by all the elite schools already having maxed out test scores for their admitted applicants.

     

    Yes, for HPY, Stanford, Chicago, etc., this new and more 'equitable' regime is perfect. They'll have no problem identifying the minimum number of genuinely smart admits they need to fill up their hard science and math programs, and to provide a respectable base for their other departments. Their massive admissions staffs (which they have the resources to expand as needed) have the time and wherewithal to sift through applications that come in with or without test scores to look for markers of genuine talent.

    But this approach may not work in the long run for the better public universities such as Berkeley. Without the incredibly useful test score shorthand to use as a tool, will they have the time to sift through increasing numbers of applications at the micro level, looking for the signs of real academic ability? They're doubly hampered, i.e. they have more applications to deal with than ever before, and they lack a single criterion by which they can immediately eliminate a large proportion of applicants so they can then focus on the serious ones.

    Replies: @Nathan, @Supertzar

    , @Hannah Katz
    @Nathan

    Silly rich kids. You will not get into Berkeley. Only protected group members: People of Color, gays, lesbians, trannies, Muslims, Hindus, Confucians, agnostics, etc.

    Replies: @Nathan

  4. Potential students from poorer backgrounds can in many cases no longer afford to attend college due to the prevailing economic conditions. Lots of colleges chasing “Tim, Nice But Dim” candidates whose parents can afford fees and upkeep during the three or more years. Just my guess. Back to the 1920s.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Cortes

    "Back to the 1920s."

    Atlantic City. Nucky Thompson's gang. I remember it well.

    , @Crawfurdmuir
    @Cortes


    Back to the 1920s.
     
    Or perhaps earlier.

    I wonder, though, whether any of the new generation of "'Tim, Nice But Dim' candidates whose parents can afford fees and upkeep during the three or more years" will match for pure academic unseriousness some among those of earlier days.

    Think of William Randolph Hearst, Sr., who enrolled in Harvard College (class of 1885), and became a member of ΔΚΕ, the A.D. Club, Hasty Pudding, and the Lampoon staff before being expelled. As a parting gift, he sent his professors chamber pots that had their portraits painted on the insides. This is a custom that well deserves to be revived.

    Then there was the newspaperman, railroad enthusiast, and bon vivant Lucius Beebe, who was expelled from Yale, completed his undergraduate degree at Harvard College, and finally managed to be expelled from graduate school at Harvard.

    We can only hope!

    Replies: @slumber_j

    , @Prester John
    @Cortes

    And lots of Dim Tims actually GRADUATE from so-called "elite" colleges--which doesn't say much for the validity of SATs. The SAT (like its cousin the LSAT) was never more than an arbitrary way of keeping the down the number of applicants and admissions so as to artificially inflate the value of a college degree (or, in the case of the LSAT, a law degree).

    , @John Derbyshire
    @Cortes

    Zhang Tiesheng https://tinyurl.com/tsumtb9

  5. Anon[107] • Disclaimer says:

    More paying customers admitted recieving more liberal arts degrees that give them a word salad vocabulary but hardly any scientific, mathematical, or technical skills. They will be able to pronounce many multisylablle words ending with suffixes like “ology, ism, and cy.” This will make them think they are smart even though they will be very uncompetitive in the global workplace.

    I think this what the finance majors call “malinvestment”.

  6. Berkeley is not even considering SAT/ACT scores as part of an applicant’s file?

    Kashawn Campbell was just ahead of his time.

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
  7. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    The whole system relies on Whites - and Asians - playing by the rules, but the rules are quickly losing their legitimacy.

    Screw them. Put down black or Hispanic. That's what I tell my kids. Throw sand in the gears.

    Who cares? The system hates Whites. Why would we respect it?

    What say you, Steve? Respect the system that hates you or not? Time to stop being the joker, chose a side.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Richard B

    “Time to stop being the joker, chose [sic] a side.”

    Can’t speak for the Steves; the Steves are going to do what they’re going to do. Politically speaking I will remain non-aligned because duality is a dead-end. Both sides are funded by the same source. And since I can’t shoot and stab my way out of this cave of devils the Joker is the only card to play.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Wrong. Start building our own communities, very slowly and very quietly.

    There's much to be done for those who love their people. So many here choose to snicker behind the bully's back rather than do the little things day in and day out that could save us.

    Don't fall into that trap. Even if we lose, at least you went out as a man.

    Steve has been great for our side, but, sadly, he's not on our side. I wish him the best, but we need to acknowledge this sad fact.

    Replies: @Alden, @Richard B

    , @Ozymandias
    @SunBakedSuburb


    since I can’t shoot and stab my way out of this cave of devils
     
    People often tell me "not every problem can be solved with a hammer." And I tell them "You haven't tried a big enough hammer."
  8. @Cortes
    Potential students from poorer backgrounds can in many cases no longer afford to attend college due to the prevailing economic conditions. Lots of colleges chasing “Tim, Nice But Dim” candidates whose parents can afford fees and upkeep during the three or more years. Just my guess. Back to the 1920s.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Crawfurdmuir, @Prester John, @John Derbyshire

    “Back to the 1920s.”

    Atlantic City. Nucky Thompson’s gang. I remember it well.

  9. • Agree: ic1000, JohnnyWalker123
    • Replies: @candid_observer
    @anon

    That's an original, deep, and persuasive book.

  10. So who gets in? Is it a lottery? A bidding war?

    Maybe whoever has the best interpretive dance or collage?

    Everyone with a room temperature IQ gets a 4.5 GPA in Current Year American High School. So that’s not going to distinguish anybody.

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    @Hypnotoad666

    Nobody is going to really care who gets in because a degree from Cal class 2026 won't be worth anything more than U of Mississippi class of 2026.

    They had already fallen out of the US News & World Report Top Ten. Fifty years ago they were close to number one, and they were the undisputed world champion public university. The only permanence is change! (I hope you went to a good school where they covered this.)

    Replies: @Polistra, @Old Palo Altan

  11. Look on the bright side. At least most of us aren’t working in university admission departments. Those poor souls are counting angels on heads of pins, wringing their hands about how best to cook the racial balance of the next class.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Kibernetika

    How many angels can dance on the head of a pin or how small is small, can small become smaller and smaller into infinity was the beginning of physics. Same old coots invented the scientific method. They called it scholasticism.

    When I worked at UCLA I noticed the hiring at the engineering school.

    First batch were hired in February-March. All Asian all foreigners on Student visas. Second batch, March-May all Asian no American citizens immigrants with green cards but not yet citizens In May the Asian Americans citizens were the last to be hired.
    The White men either went to grad school in the hope that would help them getting a job, became high school substitute math teachers or gig jobs nothing to do with tech and engineering.

    My friend Xiabo’s father purposely delayed Xiabo’s citizenship process Because Dad knew that the tech companies don’t want American citizens. After Xiabo felt secure after a year he completed the citizenship process. But his employer still thinks he’s still just a legal immigrant.

    Employers don’t want White Americans.

    A friend involved herself in her kids college application process. They went to one of those college recruitment fairs. She ran into someone she’d gone to college with working as an admissions critter.

    She invited him home for dinner. This what he told them.

    Colleges don’t really want White public school kids. They want minority public school kids. Because the government demands non Whites. Plus all the minority grants allow the colleges to keep rising and rising tuition.
    The colleges really want private school Whites.
    Because they figure if the parents had money to pay private school tuition, the parents have money to make big donations to the colleges. Donations before and during the students actual attendance.

    Private schools also scrounge around for donations before and during the kids attendance.

    I remember a friend of my brothers told me his toddlers would go to a prestige private school. I asked about the admissions test. Why did he think these toddlers would pass. He replied his parents kids grandparents started giving $20,000 a year to the school as soon as the wife got pregnant.

    Colleges don’t want White Americans. Neither do employers.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @AnonAnon, @Kibernetika

  12. @Nathan
    Here's the beauty of it- getting more rich dumb kids to apply and rejecting them actually makes the school look MORE exclusive. The smaller percentage of admitted applicants will help boost the school's perception of eliteness and the school's US News ranking, particularly if you assume that the advantage of higher test scores in terms of USNWR rankings is limited by all the elite schools already having maxed out test scores for their admitted applicants.

    The Service Academies and lower-tier colleges play these sort of applicant pool games to boost their standing. Harvard will probably be able to cement its place at the top... more than it already has, anyway.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @Hannah Katz

    Here’s the beauty of it- getting more rich dumb kids to apply and rejecting them actually makes the school look MORE exclusive. The smaller percentage of admitted applicants will help boost the school’s perception of eliteness and the school’s US News ranking, particularly if you assume that the advantage of higher test scores in terms of USNWR rankings is limited by all the elite schools already having maxed out test scores for their admitted applicants.

    Yes, for HPY, Stanford, Chicago, etc., this new and more ‘equitable’ regime is perfect. They’ll have no problem identifying the minimum number of genuinely smart admits they need to fill up their hard science and math programs, and to provide a respectable base for their other departments. Their massive admissions staffs (which they have the resources to expand as needed) have the time and wherewithal to sift through applications that come in with or without test scores to look for markers of genuine talent.

    But this approach may not work in the long run for the better public universities such as Berkeley. Without the incredibly useful test score shorthand to use as a tool, will they have the time to sift through increasing numbers of applications at the micro level, looking for the signs of real academic ability? They’re doubly hampered, i.e. they have more applications to deal with than ever before, and they lack a single criterion by which they can immediately eliminate a large proportion of applicants so they can then focus on the serious ones.

    • Agree: Polistra
    • Replies: @Nathan
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    That's an excellent point. This could backfire massively, particularly for the competitive but still very much for the public UC system.

    But I think the model that they're aiming for is more along the lines of UT Austin. A few years ago the president of UT Austin got caught admitting the children of politicians and politically connected Texans who where not academically qualified:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_at_Austin_admissions_controversy

    California has a huge political apparatus, with small time politicians, public sector union bosses, and other connected people who will need to get their children the right credentials. The UC system will be for them, and the other applicants will just be fodder to prop up the prestige of the institution.

    , @Supertzar
    @The Last Real Calvinist


    genuine talent
     

    real academic ability
     
    I wonder to what extent Woke needs this. Do the producers of its texts strike you as intellectually nimble, sensitive to the subtleties of things? I fear humanities departments are content to go without anyone who really gets Shakespeare, Joyce, the ancients. They can just censure them or jerk themselves off over how genderqueer it was that time a girl character pretended to be a boy when the actor playing her was a boy pretending to be a girl. Mind = blown!
  13. Do you really think that if you don’t submit your test scores that Harvard will automatically assume you would have gotten perfect 800s?

    They’ll check your PSAT outcome. White or Asian? Not at least a commended scholar? Flush.

  14. The Great Reset is the technologically-enabled elimination of the exceptional American middle class, standard of living, and class mobility. It has nothing to do with rich kids applying to Harvard.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @J.Ross

    There is no "Great Reset". That's one of the biggest lies perpetuated by the Alt Right. But if that makes you good about yourself, knock yourself out.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Mr. Anon

  15. If universities keep this up we may see some secondary, more beneficial effects. Why spend the money to go to Phillips Exeter Academy or try and get into Stuyvesant or Thomas Jefferson high schools only to graduate at the bottom of the class. Go to a crummy public high school where you can coast, graduate at the top of the class and get glowing letters of recommendation from grateful teachers and administrators. Then you hire a good writer to write an essay on ‘why’ you want to attend the elite school ( a lot easier than trying to get someone else to take your SAT exam) claim a little mixed blood ancestry and you might get in.

    Back when I was applying for college admission I didn’t bother with elite private schools because you had to send money with your application. It wasn’t a lot as I recall but it wasn’t insignificant either (my parents paid so I don’t remember what it was) so applying to all the Ivies would have been fairly expensive. Do schools still charge to review your application?

  16. UC-Berkeley has taken a more radical step. It removed the SAT and ACT from admission decisions, a policy known as “test-free” or “test-blind.”

    Why not also drop GPA and conduct admissions via lottery? Of course, that would be a little too egalitarian for our equity-obsessed era….

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    @syonredux

    I think what they want is to wind up taking the top 10% of all HS students and distributing them throughout the UC's. Berkeley will find ways to get the top 10% of the 10% and fill up the remaining spots with foreigners.

    If your goal is to use HS grades to determine a college spot, then the focus will go back on classwork and homework. No more will you have to spend all this outside time prepping for a test, instead you'll have to actually pay attention in school and do the work. This will, of course, mean the same students who got high test scores will now dominate the high GPA ranks. Just as they do now.

    But will the HS's have the nerve to give grades that actually reflect the reality of their students' work? Suddenly all their B students will become C students and plenty of the former "barely passing" types will be flunkies. No, that will never fly.

    Further, what about all the homeschoolers (and there are lots now) who automatically get A's in everything and have all this extra time for extracurriculars? Are the admissions people going to know how to evaluate them?

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

  17. SAT’s were invented to give smart poor kids a chance, especially Jews, Catholics, and other minorities.

    Colleges are desperate for students in this Covid bust. Instead of explicitly lowering standards, they are just making it impossible to compare. This is the best time for mediocre students to apply. Ironically, the admissions office will be forced to rely on reputational signals, like inflated grades from expensive privates schools. This favors dumb rich kids.

    Prediction: Berkeley will not admit many “diverse” students, or it will struggle to retain and graduate them. It is really sad that many poor smart children of immigrants will not be admitted. Think about a child with Chinese or Nigerian parents, working multiple jobs during high school while caring for younger siblings. He might be really smart, with mediocre grades. By comparison, a rich white kid with tutors will get slightly better grades at a “prestigious” private school, and gain admission to Berkeley. Or kids with straight A’s in Special Education classes will get admitted.

    • Replies: @danand
    @KL

    “Berkeley will not admit many “diverse” students, or it will struggle to retain and graduate them.”

    KL, can’t say I know the exact quantification of “many”, or for that matter what constitutes diverse, but it looks as though UC Berkeley is well on it’s way to stirring up it’s perfect mix of Freshman “admits”.

    https://flic.kr/p/2kwWLKj

    https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data

    Note the Underrepresented Minorities for 2020’s Freshman class will for the first time exceed 25%.

    What I can say is, “Go Bears!”

    Replies: @Polistra, @stillCARealist

    , @Alden
    @KL

    Smart Chinese kids aren’t allowed to work in the family business or any teen job, do housework, wash the car, have a social life, sports , babysit or do anything but spend every weekday 3/30pm till midnight and all day Saturday and Sunday at their desk doing tutoring extra homework . Mom or grandma even brings them dinner in their rooms and does every bit of laundry making their beds etc for them.

    The less genius kids in the family work long hours in the family business do housework and and allowed to have a normal life.

    , @AnonAnon
    @KL

    You couldn’t be more clueless about college admittance in the US and the UC system if you tried. Berkeley admits plenty of diversity and has been for a long time. Maybe check admit data before you concern troll. God forbid the top UCs admit a few more white kids with 4.6 GPAs whose parents can pay full freight instead of the 4.9/5.0 poor-on-paper cash-business scholarship Asian crowd or the actual poor 3.6 Hispanics and blacks. I’d hazard a guess Berkeley has plenty of data on the academic rigor of all California high schools and how their students do once they get to Berkeley to be able to admit kids sans test scores without it being a major issue.

    It’s hilarious Steve thinks “dim” kids will be admitted to Cal. Instead of having to walk on water in addition to being a 4 year varsity athlete with a 5.0 GPA taking 15 AP classes while completing 500 service hours and getting 1580 on the SATs they might have to let in a few 4.6’s who also took 15 APs but who don’t need a scholarship to pay their way. The UC student admit profile will just revert to where it was 15 or so years ago before getting into Cal or any of the top UCs became insanely hard. Every elite college presentation my son and I sat through told us that they could fill their freshman class several times over with kids just as elite as the ones that win admittance. It’s ludicrous to think dropping the SAT is going to be that disastrous.

  18. Still, since Harvard charges $75 per application, I guess they’re making out like bandits from the record application numbers.

    • Agree: Alden
  19. @Hypnotoad666
    So who gets in? Is it a lottery? A bidding war?

    Maybe whoever has the best interpretive dance or collage?

    Everyone with a room temperature IQ gets a 4.5 GPA in Current Year American High School. So that's not going to distinguish anybody.

    Replies: @Morton's toes

    Nobody is going to really care who gets in because a degree from Cal class 2026 won’t be worth anything more than U of Mississippi class of 2026.

    They had already fallen out of the US News & World Report Top Ten. Fifty years ago they were close to number one, and they were the undisputed world champion public university. The only permanence is change! (I hope you went to a good school where they covered this.)

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @Morton's toes

    Berkeley was never close to #1 unless you're talking grad school, and they were never 'undisputed world champion' though they were often in contention, again speaking only of graduate departments. Notably, this was also true to some degree of Harvard, with its stellar graduate depts and lackluster undergrad experience (particularly when compared with Princeton and Yale).

    Both Harvard and Berkeley have actually experienced an improvement in the reputations of their undergraduate experience in recent decades. And both remain at or near the pinnacle in many fields of graduate research.

    The Woke Disease isn't really even a factor, since the 'dumbing down' it's enforcing is essentially universal.

    , @Old Palo Altan
    @Morton's toes

    In June it will be fifty years since I graduated from Cal.

    I wasn't exactly proud of the fact: I had happily coasted through doing precisely and only what I wanted with my time, as, come to think of it, I have more or less done ever since.

    But I was proud of the place, and of a California which had built up over a hundred years of conscious planning and effort the greatest public university in the world.

    To hell with Ogundele and his enablers.

    Replies: @Morton's toes

  20. Olufemi Ogundele, UC-Berkeley’s director of undergraduate admissions…

    He should be at UM-Duluth, UW-Superior, or Michigan Tech.

    On the shores of Gitchee Gumee,
    Olufemi Ogundele
    sat before a stack of hopeful
    high-school students’ applications,
    knowing that their desperately
    wished-for fall matriculation
    stood he in-betwixt, with power
    sole to crush their adolescent
    souls to arid piles of powder.

    Opened he enveloped pleadings
    so replete with scores and essays
    that he hadn’t half the heart to
    tell the kids remediation
    would be useless in their cases,
    and they really ought apply to
    some adjacent junior college
    where the standards– not to mention
    fees for the tuition– are at
    levels apt for their condition.

    Thus he pulled the papers outside,
    wrote the message with the downside,
    SASE put he inside,
    licked adhesive on the backside,
    checked the postage on the frontside,
    took it to the mailbox streetside,
    where he pulled the red flag upside.
    “Find me at the tavern, barside!”

    Olufemi Ogundele = Moon-fueled guile.

    • LOL: Elli, Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @Kibernetika
    @Reg Cæsar

    That's fun :)

    , @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    @Reg Cæsar

    For his tetrametric trochees, let us thank the bard Reg Caesar.
    https://www.hwlongfellow.org/poems_poem.php?pid=283

  21. @Cortes
    Potential students from poorer backgrounds can in many cases no longer afford to attend college due to the prevailing economic conditions. Lots of colleges chasing “Tim, Nice But Dim” candidates whose parents can afford fees and upkeep during the three or more years. Just my guess. Back to the 1920s.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Crawfurdmuir, @Prester John, @John Derbyshire

    Back to the 1920s.

    Or perhaps earlier.

    I wonder, though, whether any of the new generation of “‘Tim, Nice But Dim’ candidates whose parents can afford fees and upkeep during the three or more years” will match for pure academic unseriousness some among those of earlier days.

    Think of William Randolph Hearst, Sr., who enrolled in Harvard College (class of 1885), and became a member of ΔΚΕ, the A.D. Club, Hasty Pudding, and the Lampoon staff before being expelled. As a parting gift, he sent his professors chamber pots that had their portraits painted on the insides. This is a custom that well deserves to be revived.

    Then there was the newspaperman, railroad enthusiast, and bon vivant Lucius Beebe, who was expelled from Yale, completed his undergraduate degree at Harvard College, and finally managed to be expelled from graduate school at Harvard.

    We can only hope!

    • Thanks: HammerJack
    • Replies: @slumber_j
    @Crawfurdmuir


    Think of William Randolph Hearst, Sr., who enrolled in Harvard College (class of 1885), and became a member of ΔΚΕ, the A.D. Club, Hasty Pudding, and the Lampoon staff before being expelled. As a parting gift, he sent his professors chamber pots that had their portraits painted on the insides. This is a custom that well deserves to be revived.
     
    I'm pretty sure WRH was in the Spee Club rather than the AD, and it was my understanding that those chamber pots were what got him expelled, although I could be wrong about that. But yeah: great idea.

    Ceramics would be a lifelong passion for him. There's a lot of that in all his houses, and the comically Flemish castle that he would later build for the Lampoon has a ton of pretty awesome Delft tiles throughout. Their one big drawback is that they hurt your head when you crash into them while drunkenly dancing.
  22. “In other words, lots of dumb kids from upscale families are trying to get into fancy colleges that they wouldn’t have bothered taking a flyer on when test scores were required.”

    For the past decade, college has become overrated, with the testing companies now marketing their brand in the name of academic rigor. LOL. I say good riddance to the SAT-ACT monopolists. Scrap the test scores, and let each university system determine for themselves Who/Whom gets in. And if that means “stupid rich brats”, so be it.

  23. @J.Ross
    The Great Reset is the technologically-enabled elimination of the exceptional American middle class, standard of living, and class mobility. It has nothing to do with rich kids applying to Harvard.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    There is no “Great Reset”. That’s one of the biggest lies perpetuated by the Alt Right. But if that makes you good about yourself, knock yourself out.

    • Troll: Realist
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Corvinus


    There is no “Great Reset”. That’s one of the biggest lies perpetuated by the Alt Right.

     

    Congratulations! You are the first person in the history of the Internet to conflate the "alt-right" with the World Economic Forum:

    The Great Reset

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rAiTDQ-NVY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPYx12xJFUQ


    As faux-pas go, that one is davostating.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Corvinus


    There is no “Great Reset”.
     
    Of course there is, you insipid nitwit. They boast about it. How do you even tie your shoes in the morning, you ovine idiot?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  24. Classic, Reg.

    Better that our Nubian gatekeeper be on the shores of Gitchee Gumee than with Lie-awatha and OCrazio by the whores of Gimme Gucci

  25. @Corvinus
    @J.Ross

    There is no "Great Reset". That's one of the biggest lies perpetuated by the Alt Right. But if that makes you good about yourself, knock yourself out.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Mr. Anon

    There is no “Great Reset”. That’s one of the biggest lies perpetuated by the Alt Right.

    Congratulations! You are the first person in the history of the Internet to conflate the “alt-right” with the World Economic Forum:

    The Great Reset

    As faux-pas go, that one is davostating.

    • LOL: Hibernian
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Congratulations! You are the first person in the history of the Internet to conflate the “alt-right” with the World Economic Forum"

    Try NOTICING rather than mouthing off.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/55017002


    The WEF recovery plan has been interpreted as sinister, first by fringe conspiracy theory groups on social media, and then by prominent conservative commentators - prompting tens of thousands of interactions across Facebook and Twitter. It started trending globally on Twitter last week, when a video of Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau at a UN meeting, saying the pandemic provided an opportunity for a "reset", went viral. This sparked fresh claims from people, within Canada and further afield, that a cabal of global leaders is using the pandemic to introduce a range of damaging socialist and environmental policies.
     
    https://voi.id/en/bernas/20133/looking-for-a-logical-exposure-of-the-great-reset-the-covid-19-conspiracy-theory-now-campaigned-by-the-world-economic-forum

    Paul Joseph Watson's chirp exploded. The rewards of 947 Retweets, 160 Quote Tweets, and 2,200 Likes are enough to make Paul's tweet the headline of the world's Twitter timeline since Tuesday night, November 17. "The mastermind of the 'Great Reset', Klaus Schwab suggested a number of cruel measures to control the population in his book, including risk assessment brain scans for cross-border and implantable chips to read people's minds," wrote the tweet.
     
    https://capx.co/the-great-reset-is-the-latest-conspiracy-fantasy-it-will-not-be-the-last

    To those who see global policymakers as malign and scheming rather than basically well-intentioned, it was a sign that the whole experience of lockdown had been long planned. The propaganda apparatus of the Putin regime has for many months published wild allegations from obscure bloggers that the Great Reset is code for oligarchs to amass wealth and control populations. As one of them wrote last month for Russia Today: “The production and supply of goods will be coordinated by a central directorate, led not by elected representatives (whose roles, where they exist, will be nominal anyway) but by technocrat factotums.”
     

    Replies: @ic1000, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Reg Cæsar

  26. I think you meant “dumb rich white kids.”

  27. Anon[285] • Disclaimer says:

    A fascinating ongoing story is the GME stock short squeeze that pits retail investors in Reddit’s /wallstreetbets forum against major Wall Street hedge funds. The most notorious of these Redditors, who goes by the vulgar handle u/DeepF–ingValue/, is a 34-year old man in suburban Massachusetts named Keith Gill. The Wall Street Journal profiled him today. As of now, his long position in GameStop has earned him more than $45M. He’s cashed out $14M but continues to hold the rest.

    Gill is an interesting character. His writing and YouTube commentary show him to be a smart and likeable guy who has deep knowledge of financial markets. He’s a CFA, which is a serious credential, but he doesn’t seem to have had much of a career for whatever reason. He went to Stonehill College, an okay-but-not-amazing local school, where, interestingly, he was a very elite runner.

    We now see two trends converging. In one, woke bureaucrats are making elite degrees worthless and populating elite institutions with mediocrities. In the other, technology puts information at the fingertips of talented outsiders and makes it easier for them to gain notice.

    However the current madness plays out, I expect to see a lot more Keith Gill types popping into public view in the future.

    • Thanks: bomag
  28. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    "Time to stop being the joker, chose [sic] a side."

    Can't speak for the Steves; the Steves are going to do what they're going to do. Politically speaking I will remain non-aligned because duality is a dead-end. Both sides are funded by the same source. And since I can't shoot and stab my way out of this cave of devils the Joker is the only card to play.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Ozymandias

    Wrong. Start building our own communities, very slowly and very quietly.

    There’s much to be done for those who love their people. So many here choose to snicker behind the bully’s back rather than do the little things day in and day out that could save us.

    Don’t fall into that trap. Even if we lose, at least you went out as a man.

    Steve has been great for our side, but, sadly, he’s not on our side. I wish him the best, but we need to acknowledge this sad fact.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Any community the misogynist White women hating Men of UNZ build would have to exclude the White women you hate . So it would last only a couple generations.

    Or you guys would have to constantly find new recruits, like monks and gays.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Donald A Thomson

    , @Richard B
    @Citizen of a Silly Country


    Steve has been great for our side, but, sadly, he’s not on our side.
     
    What makes you say "he's not on our side"?

    I've read other comments saying the same thing, and I'm not saying you're not right. I'd just be interested to know why you feel that way.
  29. All that money spent on test-prep, down the drain.

    I absolutely LOVE it!

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @slumber_j
    @Abolish_public_education


    All that money spent on test-prep, down the drain.
     
    I would likewise love that, although I'm not sure that's quite what is happening. My eighth-grader son has just applied to high schools, and the SSAT has also become optional in that process--for the same Woke/Covid set of reasons. Our working hypothesis is that test scores only don't matter if you're a NAM or have donated a building or whatever: everyone else had probably better do pretty well on them if they want a chance...

    Time will tell whether we're right or not. Anyway, no test-prep for our son, because it's boring and gross.

    One interesting dynamic with boarding schools in the Covid Age: most of them have increasingly relied on the importation of full-paying foreigners (especially Chinese) to make their nut, and some of that cash is now drying up. My guess is that their student bodies will therefore be getting significantly more American as a result--and especially more rich-kid American. I expect this is happening with lower-tier colleges as well.

    By the way, the notion that rich kids are gonna tend to be dumber may be satisfying but seems to me to run against the realist tenor of this blog and its commenters. Most rich guys get their money at least in part because they're exceptionally smart (some are also exceptionally venal, but that's a separate question). If intelligence is fairly heritable, won't their children mostly be pretty smart too?

    In my experience they generally are, and good-looking too: that of course serves to make their wealth even more annoying, if you allow it to be.
  30. @KL
    SAT's were invented to give smart poor kids a chance, especially Jews, Catholics, and other minorities.

    Colleges are desperate for students in this Covid bust. Instead of explicitly lowering standards, they are just making it impossible to compare. This is the best time for mediocre students to apply. Ironically, the admissions office will be forced to rely on reputational signals, like inflated grades from expensive privates schools. This favors dumb rich kids.

    Prediction: Berkeley will not admit many "diverse" students, or it will struggle to retain and graduate them. It is really sad that many poor smart children of immigrants will not be admitted. Think about a child with Chinese or Nigerian parents, working multiple jobs during high school while caring for younger siblings. He might be really smart, with mediocre grades. By comparison, a rich white kid with tutors will get slightly better grades at a "prestigious" private school, and gain admission to Berkeley. Or kids with straight A's in Special Education classes will get admitted.

    Replies: @danand, @Alden, @AnonAnon

    “Berkeley will not admit many “diverse” students, or it will struggle to retain and graduate them.”

    KL, can’t say I know the exact quantification of “many”, or for that matter what constitutes diverse, but it looks as though UC Berkeley is well on it’s way to stirring up it’s perfect mix of Freshman “admits”.

    881BAE86-9A0A-4D1B-9035-BD1A904A92A8

    https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data

    Note the Underrepresented Minorities for 2020’s Freshman class will for the first time exceed 25%.

    What I can say is, “Go Bears!”

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @danand

    URMs appear to be way over 25%. How are they even figuring?
    That is to say, essentially, which Asians do they like best now?

    Whites are now down to a manageable 17%, I see. Only 17 percent more to go! And as California goes, they say, so goes the nation.

    And when you consider how many 'white-adjacent' peoples get into that mix (Iranians, for exaample) the 'progress' is even more impressive.

    , @stillCARealist
    @danand

    it looks like white kids aren't even bothering to apply to UC Berkeley. My kids didn't. Either that, or they have a tiny acceptance rate. I wonder if the few that do get in are going to shine like stars in the heavens or just be tokens.

  31. @Reg Cæsar

    Olufemi Ogundele, UC-Berkeley’s director of undergraduate admissions...
     
    He should be at UM-Duluth, UW-Superior, or Michigan Tech.

    On the shores of Gitchee Gumee,
    Olufemi Ogundele
    sat before a stack of hopeful
    high-school students' applications,
    knowing that their desperately
    wished-for fall matriculation
    stood he in-betwixt, with power
    sole to crush their adolescent
    souls to arid piles of powder.

    Opened he enveloped pleadings
    so replete with scores and essays
    that he hadn't half the heart to
    tell the kids remediation
    would be useless in their cases,
    and they really ought apply to
    some adjacent junior college
    where the standards-- not to mention
    fees for the tuition-- are at
    levels apt for their condition.

    Thus he pulled the papers outside,
    wrote the message with the downside,
    SASE put he inside,
    licked adhesive on the backside,
    checked the postage on the frontside,
    took it to the mailbox streetside,
    where he pulled the red flag upside.
    "Find me at the tavern, barside!"

    Olufemi Ogundele = Moon-fueled guile.

    Replies: @Kibernetika, @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    That’s fun 🙂

  32. SETI – the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence – has tried for decades to get any responses to their signals sent out into the universe. I used to view that as a record of failure. Maybe it’s actually a record of success. If the people on planet Earth who were mainly responsible for whatever intelligence was ever displayed by humanity cannot be bothered to sustain and advance serious scholarship, value the sacrifices and accomplishments of their ancestors, or even be bothered to raise children and preserve their civilization, why would truly intelligent extra-terrestrial aliens bother replying to human efforts to contact them?

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Voltarde

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/70/75/7a/70757a80c4ffa8cc039e36d37862c11a.png

  33. @Corvinus
    @J.Ross

    There is no "Great Reset". That's one of the biggest lies perpetuated by the Alt Right. But if that makes you good about yourself, knock yourself out.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Mr. Anon

    There is no “Great Reset”.

    Of course there is, you insipid nitwit. They boast about it. How do you even tie your shoes in the morning, you ovine idiot?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Mr. Anon


    How do you even tie your shoes in the morning, you ovine idiot?
     
    Corvine. Ovines have the sense to keep their mouths shut.


    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRb84e0UIAAk-L5.jpg
  34. The schools may be looking to ditch the standardized tests for more than one reason. They’ve become vulnerable to Asian lawsuits accusing them of bias. Get rid of the tests and the lawsuits won’t have much evidence to go on.

    In this case, the universities may actually be right.

    The trouble is that the SATs and ACTs seem to overpredict Asian success. Asians certainly do well in this country, but they don’t do nearly well enough to suggest they should be 30-40-50% of the student bodies at our elite universities. If they did deserve that their presence in culture, business, and elsewhere would be far greater than it actually is.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  35. @Kibernetika
    Look on the bright side. At least most of us aren't working in university admission departments. Those poor souls are counting angels on heads of pins, wringing their hands about how best to cook the racial balance of the next class.

    Replies: @Alden

    How many angels can dance on the head of a pin or how small is small, can small become smaller and smaller into infinity was the beginning of physics. Same old coots invented the scientific method. They called it scholasticism.

    When I worked at UCLA I noticed the hiring at the engineering school.

    First batch were hired in February-March. All Asian all foreigners on Student visas. Second batch, March-May all Asian no American citizens immigrants with green cards but not yet citizens In May the Asian Americans citizens were the last to be hired.
    The White men either went to grad school in the hope that would help them getting a job, became high school substitute math teachers or gig jobs nothing to do with tech and engineering.

    My friend Xiabo’s father purposely delayed Xiabo’s citizenship process Because Dad knew that the tech companies don’t want American citizens. After Xiabo felt secure after a year he completed the citizenship process. But his employer still thinks he’s still just a legal immigrant.

    Employers don’t want White Americans.

    A friend involved herself in her kids college application process. They went to one of those college recruitment fairs. She ran into someone she’d gone to college with working as an admissions critter.

    She invited him home for dinner. This what he told them.

    Colleges don’t really want White public school kids. They want minority public school kids. Because the government demands non Whites. Plus all the minority grants allow the colleges to keep rising and rising tuition.
    The colleges really want private school Whites.
    Because they figure if the parents had money to pay private school tuition, the parents have money to make big donations to the colleges. Donations before and during the students actual attendance.

    Private schools also scrounge around for donations before and during the kids attendance.

    I remember a friend of my brothers told me his toddlers would go to a prestige private school. I asked about the admissions test. Why did he think these toddlers would pass. He replied his parents kids grandparents started giving $20,000 a year to the school as soon as the wife got pregnant.

    Colleges don’t want White Americans. Neither do employers.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman, ic1000
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Alden

    Oh, there's plenty of employers who want white Americans; the Biden administration is targeting them for destruction.

    , @AnonAnon
    @Alden

    Utter fiction. First, no UCLA engineering grad has to go to grad school to find a job if he doesn’t want to. Second, companies give out offers in November/December unless your company already locked you in at the end of your summer internship. The only people being hired in the spring are kids who didn’t hustle enough in the fall to find a job. The new grad hiring timeline hasn’t changed much from when I graduated engineering school 30+ years ago.

    , @Kibernetika
    @Alden

    Good insight.

    Colleges don’t want White Americans. Neither do employers.

    But most schools need to keep at least a 50% white enrollment rate for now. If they didn't, it'd be too obvious. It's true that very few white kids enter the hard science programs. Chinese nationals and their associates dominate so many research labs in the US. It's an obvious racket, but no one seems to care.

    But there are employers happy to hire intelligent white kids. A lot of it comes down to communication skills.

  36. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Nathan


    Here’s the beauty of it- getting more rich dumb kids to apply and rejecting them actually makes the school look MORE exclusive. The smaller percentage of admitted applicants will help boost the school’s perception of eliteness and the school’s US News ranking, particularly if you assume that the advantage of higher test scores in terms of USNWR rankings is limited by all the elite schools already having maxed out test scores for their admitted applicants.

     

    Yes, for HPY, Stanford, Chicago, etc., this new and more 'equitable' regime is perfect. They'll have no problem identifying the minimum number of genuinely smart admits they need to fill up their hard science and math programs, and to provide a respectable base for their other departments. Their massive admissions staffs (which they have the resources to expand as needed) have the time and wherewithal to sift through applications that come in with or without test scores to look for markers of genuine talent.

    But this approach may not work in the long run for the better public universities such as Berkeley. Without the incredibly useful test score shorthand to use as a tool, will they have the time to sift through increasing numbers of applications at the micro level, looking for the signs of real academic ability? They're doubly hampered, i.e. they have more applications to deal with than ever before, and they lack a single criterion by which they can immediately eliminate a large proportion of applicants so they can then focus on the serious ones.

    Replies: @Nathan, @Supertzar

    That’s an excellent point. This could backfire massively, particularly for the competitive but still very much for the public UC system.

    But I think the model that they’re aiming for is more along the lines of UT Austin. A few years ago the president of UT Austin got caught admitting the children of politicians and politically connected Texans who where not academically qualified:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_at_Austin_admissions_controversy

    California has a huge political apparatus, with small time politicians, public sector union bosses, and other connected people who will need to get their children the right credentials. The UC system will be for them, and the other applicants will just be fodder to prop up the prestige of the institution.

  37. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Wrong. Start building our own communities, very slowly and very quietly.

    There's much to be done for those who love their people. So many here choose to snicker behind the bully's back rather than do the little things day in and day out that could save us.

    Don't fall into that trap. Even if we lose, at least you went out as a man.

    Steve has been great for our side, but, sadly, he's not on our side. I wish him the best, but we need to acknowledge this sad fact.

    Replies: @Alden, @Richard B

    Any community the misogynist White women hating Men of UNZ build would have to exclude the White women you hate . So it would last only a couple generations.

    Or you guys would have to constantly find new recruits, like monks and gays.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
    • Troll: HammerJack
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Alden

    >exclude
    Roman-style slavery. Only drawback is how much work it is and how much the chicks would dig it. After the first week they'd be effecting elaborate political intrigues to get out of washing dishes.

    , @Donald A Thomson
    @Alden

    The majority of white women voted for Trump in 2016. I expect it was the same in 2020.

    Are you surprised that the US media only mentions the white woman minority who voted for Hillary Clinton? All she needed to do to win against Trump was to get a majority of the white womens' vote.

    Whites are still a large majority of US citizens even without counting the large majority of Latin American Whites. Of course, if they were included in the White group, Trump's support amongst white women would crash. As they continue to establish businesses and get good educations, that will change in the future. Democrat Party ownership of the US Latin American vote depends on their always being poor. The right often wins elections in Latin America.

    The Democrats have believed for a long time in lawyers creating legislation but it's only recently that they've believed in a system of US censorship run by billionaires. That didn't surprise me because I've always believed most Democrat politicians were corrupt. I am surprised their voters are gullible enough to support it. After all, most of their voters aren't billionaires. I doubt you are. Perhaps you're an extreme right winger who believes in complete subservience to billionaires. That's now less true of Republicans than Democrats. [email protected]

  38. Harvard has taken dumb rich kids for centuries. The difference is, they used to come out smart.

    Today the process is reversed.

    • Agree: AnotherDad
    • LOL: bomag, Prester John
    • Replies: @Alden
    @Reg Cæsar

    You’re in a roll lately Reg. Keep them coming.

    , @Orville H. Larson
    @Reg Cæsar

    Piss on Harvard's pretentiousness. As the saying goes:

    "You can always tell a Harvard man, but you can't tell him much."

  39. @Mr. Anon
    @Corvinus


    There is no “Great Reset”.
     
    Of course there is, you insipid nitwit. They boast about it. How do you even tie your shoes in the morning, you ovine idiot?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    How do you even tie your shoes in the morning, you ovine idiot?

    Corvine. Ovines have the sense to keep their mouths shut.

  40. @KL
    SAT's were invented to give smart poor kids a chance, especially Jews, Catholics, and other minorities.

    Colleges are desperate for students in this Covid bust. Instead of explicitly lowering standards, they are just making it impossible to compare. This is the best time for mediocre students to apply. Ironically, the admissions office will be forced to rely on reputational signals, like inflated grades from expensive privates schools. This favors dumb rich kids.

    Prediction: Berkeley will not admit many "diverse" students, or it will struggle to retain and graduate them. It is really sad that many poor smart children of immigrants will not be admitted. Think about a child with Chinese or Nigerian parents, working multiple jobs during high school while caring for younger siblings. He might be really smart, with mediocre grades. By comparison, a rich white kid with tutors will get slightly better grades at a "prestigious" private school, and gain admission to Berkeley. Or kids with straight A's in Special Education classes will get admitted.

    Replies: @danand, @Alden, @AnonAnon

    Smart Chinese kids aren’t allowed to work in the family business or any teen job, do housework, wash the car, have a social life, sports , babysit or do anything but spend every weekday 3/30pm till midnight and all day Saturday and Sunday at their desk doing tutoring extra homework . Mom or grandma even brings them dinner in their rooms and does every bit of laundry making their beds etc for them.

    The less genius kids in the family work long hours in the family business do housework and and allowed to have a normal life.

  41. @Reg Cæsar

    Olufemi Ogundele, UC-Berkeley’s director of undergraduate admissions...
     
    He should be at UM-Duluth, UW-Superior, or Michigan Tech.

    On the shores of Gitchee Gumee,
    Olufemi Ogundele
    sat before a stack of hopeful
    high-school students' applications,
    knowing that their desperately
    wished-for fall matriculation
    stood he in-betwixt, with power
    sole to crush their adolescent
    souls to arid piles of powder.

    Opened he enveloped pleadings
    so replete with scores and essays
    that he hadn't half the heart to
    tell the kids remediation
    would be useless in their cases,
    and they really ought apply to
    some adjacent junior college
    where the standards-- not to mention
    fees for the tuition-- are at
    levels apt for their condition.

    Thus he pulled the papers outside,
    wrote the message with the downside,
    SASE put he inside,
    licked adhesive on the backside,
    checked the postage on the frontside,
    took it to the mailbox streetside,
    where he pulled the red flag upside.
    "Find me at the tavern, barside!"

    Olufemi Ogundele = Moon-fueled guile.

    Replies: @Kibernetika, @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    For his tetrametric trochees, let us thank the bard Reg Caesar.
    https://www.hwlongfellow.org/poems_poem.php?pid=283

  42. @Morton's toes
    @Hypnotoad666

    Nobody is going to really care who gets in because a degree from Cal class 2026 won't be worth anything more than U of Mississippi class of 2026.

    They had already fallen out of the US News & World Report Top Ten. Fifty years ago they were close to number one, and they were the undisputed world champion public university. The only permanence is change! (I hope you went to a good school where they covered this.)

    Replies: @Polistra, @Old Palo Altan

    Berkeley was never close to #1 unless you’re talking grad school, and they were never ‘undisputed world champion’ though they were often in contention, again speaking only of graduate departments. Notably, this was also true to some degree of Harvard, with its stellar graduate depts and lackluster undergrad experience (particularly when compared with Princeton and Yale).

    Both Harvard and Berkeley have actually experienced an improvement in the reputations of their undergraduate experience in recent decades. And both remain at or near the pinnacle in many fields of graduate research.

    The Woke Disease isn’t really even a factor, since the ‘dumbing down’ it’s enforcing is essentially universal.

  43. @danand
    @KL

    “Berkeley will not admit many “diverse” students, or it will struggle to retain and graduate them.”

    KL, can’t say I know the exact quantification of “many”, or for that matter what constitutes diverse, but it looks as though UC Berkeley is well on it’s way to stirring up it’s perfect mix of Freshman “admits”.

    https://flic.kr/p/2kwWLKj

    https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data

    Note the Underrepresented Minorities for 2020’s Freshman class will for the first time exceed 25%.

    What I can say is, “Go Bears!”

    Replies: @Polistra, @stillCARealist

    URMs appear to be way over 25%. How are they even figuring?
    That is to say, essentially, which Asians do they like best now?

    Whites are now down to a manageable 17%, I see. Only 17 percent more to go! And as California goes, they say, so goes the nation.

    And when you consider how many ‘white-adjacent’ peoples get into that mix (Iranians, for exaample) the ‘progress’ is even more impressive.

  44. @Alden
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Any community the misogynist White women hating Men of UNZ build would have to exclude the White women you hate . So it would last only a couple generations.

    Or you guys would have to constantly find new recruits, like monks and gays.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Donald A Thomson

    >exclude
    Roman-style slavery. Only drawback is how much work it is and how much the chicks would dig it. After the first week they’d be effecting elaborate political intrigues to get out of washing dishes.

  45. @Alden
    @Kibernetika

    How many angels can dance on the head of a pin or how small is small, can small become smaller and smaller into infinity was the beginning of physics. Same old coots invented the scientific method. They called it scholasticism.

    When I worked at UCLA I noticed the hiring at the engineering school.

    First batch were hired in February-March. All Asian all foreigners on Student visas. Second batch, March-May all Asian no American citizens immigrants with green cards but not yet citizens In May the Asian Americans citizens were the last to be hired.
    The White men either went to grad school in the hope that would help them getting a job, became high school substitute math teachers or gig jobs nothing to do with tech and engineering.

    My friend Xiabo’s father purposely delayed Xiabo’s citizenship process Because Dad knew that the tech companies don’t want American citizens. After Xiabo felt secure after a year he completed the citizenship process. But his employer still thinks he’s still just a legal immigrant.

    Employers don’t want White Americans.

    A friend involved herself in her kids college application process. They went to one of those college recruitment fairs. She ran into someone she’d gone to college with working as an admissions critter.

    She invited him home for dinner. This what he told them.

    Colleges don’t really want White public school kids. They want minority public school kids. Because the government demands non Whites. Plus all the minority grants allow the colleges to keep rising and rising tuition.
    The colleges really want private school Whites.
    Because they figure if the parents had money to pay private school tuition, the parents have money to make big donations to the colleges. Donations before and during the students actual attendance.

    Private schools also scrounge around for donations before and during the kids attendance.

    I remember a friend of my brothers told me his toddlers would go to a prestige private school. I asked about the admissions test. Why did he think these toddlers would pass. He replied his parents kids grandparents started giving $20,000 a year to the school as soon as the wife got pregnant.

    Colleges don’t want White Americans. Neither do employers.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @AnonAnon, @Kibernetika

    Oh, there’s plenty of employers who want white Americans; the Biden administration is targeting them for destruction.

  46. @KL
    SAT's were invented to give smart poor kids a chance, especially Jews, Catholics, and other minorities.

    Colleges are desperate for students in this Covid bust. Instead of explicitly lowering standards, they are just making it impossible to compare. This is the best time for mediocre students to apply. Ironically, the admissions office will be forced to rely on reputational signals, like inflated grades from expensive privates schools. This favors dumb rich kids.

    Prediction: Berkeley will not admit many "diverse" students, or it will struggle to retain and graduate them. It is really sad that many poor smart children of immigrants will not be admitted. Think about a child with Chinese or Nigerian parents, working multiple jobs during high school while caring for younger siblings. He might be really smart, with mediocre grades. By comparison, a rich white kid with tutors will get slightly better grades at a "prestigious" private school, and gain admission to Berkeley. Or kids with straight A's in Special Education classes will get admitted.

    Replies: @danand, @Alden, @AnonAnon

    You couldn’t be more clueless about college admittance in the US and the UC system if you tried. Berkeley admits plenty of diversity and has been for a long time. Maybe check admit data before you concern troll. God forbid the top UCs admit a few more white kids with 4.6 GPAs whose parents can pay full freight instead of the 4.9/5.0 poor-on-paper cash-business scholarship Asian crowd or the actual poor 3.6 Hispanics and blacks. I’d hazard a guess Berkeley has plenty of data on the academic rigor of all California high schools and how their students do once they get to Berkeley to be able to admit kids sans test scores without it being a major issue.

    It’s hilarious Steve thinks “dim” kids will be admitted to Cal. Instead of having to walk on water in addition to being a 4 year varsity athlete with a 5.0 GPA taking 15 AP classes while completing 500 service hours and getting 1580 on the SATs they might have to let in a few 4.6’s who also took 15 APs but who don’t need a scholarship to pay their way. The UC student admit profile will just revert to where it was 15 or so years ago before getting into Cal or any of the top UCs became insanely hard. Every elite college presentation my son and I sat through told us that they could fill their freshman class several times over with kids just as elite as the ones that win admittance. It’s ludicrous to think dropping the SAT is going to be that disastrous.

  47. @Alden
    @Kibernetika

    How many angels can dance on the head of a pin or how small is small, can small become smaller and smaller into infinity was the beginning of physics. Same old coots invented the scientific method. They called it scholasticism.

    When I worked at UCLA I noticed the hiring at the engineering school.

    First batch were hired in February-March. All Asian all foreigners on Student visas. Second batch, March-May all Asian no American citizens immigrants with green cards but not yet citizens In May the Asian Americans citizens were the last to be hired.
    The White men either went to grad school in the hope that would help them getting a job, became high school substitute math teachers or gig jobs nothing to do with tech and engineering.

    My friend Xiabo’s father purposely delayed Xiabo’s citizenship process Because Dad knew that the tech companies don’t want American citizens. After Xiabo felt secure after a year he completed the citizenship process. But his employer still thinks he’s still just a legal immigrant.

    Employers don’t want White Americans.

    A friend involved herself in her kids college application process. They went to one of those college recruitment fairs. She ran into someone she’d gone to college with working as an admissions critter.

    She invited him home for dinner. This what he told them.

    Colleges don’t really want White public school kids. They want minority public school kids. Because the government demands non Whites. Plus all the minority grants allow the colleges to keep rising and rising tuition.
    The colleges really want private school Whites.
    Because they figure if the parents had money to pay private school tuition, the parents have money to make big donations to the colleges. Donations before and during the students actual attendance.

    Private schools also scrounge around for donations before and during the kids attendance.

    I remember a friend of my brothers told me his toddlers would go to a prestige private school. I asked about the admissions test. Why did he think these toddlers would pass. He replied his parents kids grandparents started giving $20,000 a year to the school as soon as the wife got pregnant.

    Colleges don’t want White Americans. Neither do employers.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @AnonAnon, @Kibernetika

    Utter fiction. First, no UCLA engineering grad has to go to grad school to find a job if he doesn’t want to. Second, companies give out offers in November/December unless your company already locked you in at the end of your summer internship. The only people being hired in the spring are kids who didn’t hustle enough in the fall to find a job. The new grad hiring timeline hasn’t changed much from when I graduated engineering school 30+ years ago.

  48. @Reg Cæsar
    Harvard has taken dumb rich kids for centuries. The difference is, they used to come out smart.


    Today the process is reversed.

    Replies: @Alden, @Orville H. Larson

    You’re in a roll lately Reg. Keep them coming.

  49. Assuming that in lieu of your test scores you submit a Jared Kushner-sized donation to the Harvard Development Office.

    So you’re saying Lori Loughlin and hubby sent their cash to the wrong folks on campus?

  50. I read about a Russian man in the 90’s who came here to tour Harvard and Stanford. He said he saw zero pretty girls and so went to school in Russia.

  51. @Reg Cæsar
    @Corvinus


    There is no “Great Reset”. That’s one of the biggest lies perpetuated by the Alt Right.

     

    Congratulations! You are the first person in the history of the Internet to conflate the "alt-right" with the World Economic Forum:

    The Great Reset

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rAiTDQ-NVY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPYx12xJFUQ


    As faux-pas go, that one is davostating.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Congratulations! You are the first person in the history of the Internet to conflate the “alt-right” with the World Economic Forum”

    Try NOTICING rather than mouthing off.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/55017002

    The WEF recovery plan has been interpreted as sinister, first by fringe conspiracy theory groups on social media, and then by prominent conservative commentators – prompting tens of thousands of interactions across Facebook and Twitter. It started trending globally on Twitter last week, when a video of Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau at a UN meeting, saying the pandemic provided an opportunity for a “reset”, went viral. This sparked fresh claims from people, within Canada and further afield, that a cabal of global leaders is using the pandemic to introduce a range of damaging socialist and environmental policies.

    https://voi.id/en/bernas/20133/looking-for-a-logical-exposure-of-the-great-reset-the-covid-19-conspiracy-theory-now-campaigned-by-the-world-economic-forum

    Paul Joseph Watson’s chirp exploded. The rewards of 947 Retweets, 160 Quote Tweets, and 2,200 Likes are enough to make Paul’s tweet the headline of the world’s Twitter timeline since Tuesday night, November 17. “The mastermind of the ‘Great Reset’, Klaus Schwab suggested a number of cruel measures to control the population in his book, including risk assessment brain scans for cross-border and implantable chips to read people’s minds,” wrote the tweet.

    https://capx.co/the-great-reset-is-the-latest-conspiracy-fantasy-it-will-not-be-the-last

    To those who see global policymakers as malign and scheming rather than basically well-intentioned, it was a sign that the whole experience of lockdown had been long planned. The propaganda apparatus of the Putin regime has for many months published wild allegations from obscure bloggers that the Great Reset is code for oligarchs to amass wealth and control populations. As one of them wrote last month for Russia Today: “The production and supply of goods will be coordinated by a central directorate, led not by elected representatives (whose roles, where they exist, will be nominal anyway) but by technocrat factotums.”

    • Troll: Realist
    • Replies: @ic1000
    @Corvinus

    1. I expected that your comment would be a rebuttal of Reg Caesar's dismissal of your prior assertion, "There is no 'Great Reset'. That’s one of the biggest lies perpetuated by the Alt Right."

    Don't rely on lengthy cut-and-paste excerpts. Use your own words to make your point, clearly and concisely.

    You have it within you to do better, Mr. Crow.

    2. Learn to use the [!--more--] tag.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Corvinus

    What?? No cites from The Atlantic?

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Corvinus


    To those who see global policymakers as malign and scheming rather than basically well-intentioned...
     
    Malignity is easier to deal with. It's the "well-intentioned" ones who are truly dangerous. Robespierre was "The Incorruptible".
  52. @Nathan
    Here's the beauty of it- getting more rich dumb kids to apply and rejecting them actually makes the school look MORE exclusive. The smaller percentage of admitted applicants will help boost the school's perception of eliteness and the school's US News ranking, particularly if you assume that the advantage of higher test scores in terms of USNWR rankings is limited by all the elite schools already having maxed out test scores for their admitted applicants.

    The Service Academies and lower-tier colleges play these sort of applicant pool games to boost their standing. Harvard will probably be able to cement its place at the top... more than it already has, anyway.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @Hannah Katz

    Silly rich kids. You will not get into Berkeley. Only protected group members: People of Color, gays, lesbians, trannies, Muslims, Hindus, Confucians, agnostics, etc.

    • Replies: @Nathan
    @Hannah Katz

    Well yeah, that's who runs California, so that's pretty much what I'm saying.

  53. @Cortes
    Potential students from poorer backgrounds can in many cases no longer afford to attend college due to the prevailing economic conditions. Lots of colleges chasing “Tim, Nice But Dim” candidates whose parents can afford fees and upkeep during the three or more years. Just my guess. Back to the 1920s.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Crawfurdmuir, @Prester John, @John Derbyshire

    And lots of Dim Tims actually GRADUATE from so-called “elite” colleges–which doesn’t say much for the validity of SATs. The SAT (like its cousin the LSAT) was never more than an arbitrary way of keeping the down the number of applicants and admissions so as to artificially inflate the value of a college degree (or, in the case of the LSAT, a law degree).

  54. @anon
    https://www.amazon.com/Ages-Discord-Peter-Turchin/dp/0996139540

    Replies: @candid_observer

    That’s an original, deep, and persuasive book.

  55. anonymous[146] • Disclaimer says:

    College as a positional good has been way past the point of diminishing marginal utility for a while. The competition takes too much out of the youngsters. Why bother with all the apple-polishing? In this corrupt shithole of a country the children of parasites will just buy their way in.

    This would be a perfect opportunity to return college to a utility model by managing to the NSSE and disclosing the results. A respected but unfashionable institution could dominate a desirable niche that way.

    The isteve concept of college as a personal good housekeeping seal of approval is predominant here. That causes people to fixate on vo-tech credentials, “Here’s my prestige credential, now gimme my prestige job!” When in actual life what you value is propaganda-resistant habits of mind. Because without that your employers will make a tool of you and your B.S. in techno-propagational minutiae engineering. The alternative is college as a hothouse designed to push you further out along the big-5 openness axis. Intellect for sale.

    People should be able to imagine college without a single great-chain-of-being type hierarchy. There could conceivably be coexisting market niches. Like cars. There are mediocre “Look at me, I’m rich!” cars like Land Rovers, and there are cars for people who look at Consumer Reports. There are rigid, manipulative “Look at me, I’m cool!” computers like Macbooks, and there’s linux on any old black plastic box of crap. There are prestigious “Look at me, I’m a pretentious asshole!” colleges like Harvard, and there are mindbending experiences like Chicago.

  56. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    "Time to stop being the joker, chose [sic] a side."

    Can't speak for the Steves; the Steves are going to do what they're going to do. Politically speaking I will remain non-aligned because duality is a dead-end. Both sides are funded by the same source. And since I can't shoot and stab my way out of this cave of devils the Joker is the only card to play.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Ozymandias

    since I can’t shoot and stab my way out of this cave of devils

    People often tell me “not every problem can be solved with a hammer.” And I tell them “You haven’t tried a big enough hammer.”

    • Agree: AnotherDad
    • LOL: Kratoklastes
  57. @Cortes
    Potential students from poorer backgrounds can in many cases no longer afford to attend college due to the prevailing economic conditions. Lots of colleges chasing “Tim, Nice But Dim” candidates whose parents can afford fees and upkeep during the three or more years. Just my guess. Back to the 1920s.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Crawfurdmuir, @Prester John, @John Derbyshire

    • Thanks: DCThrowback
  58. @Corvinus
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Congratulations! You are the first person in the history of the Internet to conflate the “alt-right” with the World Economic Forum"

    Try NOTICING rather than mouthing off.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/55017002


    The WEF recovery plan has been interpreted as sinister, first by fringe conspiracy theory groups on social media, and then by prominent conservative commentators - prompting tens of thousands of interactions across Facebook and Twitter. It started trending globally on Twitter last week, when a video of Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau at a UN meeting, saying the pandemic provided an opportunity for a "reset", went viral. This sparked fresh claims from people, within Canada and further afield, that a cabal of global leaders is using the pandemic to introduce a range of damaging socialist and environmental policies.
     
    https://voi.id/en/bernas/20133/looking-for-a-logical-exposure-of-the-great-reset-the-covid-19-conspiracy-theory-now-campaigned-by-the-world-economic-forum

    Paul Joseph Watson's chirp exploded. The rewards of 947 Retweets, 160 Quote Tweets, and 2,200 Likes are enough to make Paul's tweet the headline of the world's Twitter timeline since Tuesday night, November 17. "The mastermind of the 'Great Reset', Klaus Schwab suggested a number of cruel measures to control the population in his book, including risk assessment brain scans for cross-border and implantable chips to read people's minds," wrote the tweet.
     
    https://capx.co/the-great-reset-is-the-latest-conspiracy-fantasy-it-will-not-be-the-last

    To those who see global policymakers as malign and scheming rather than basically well-intentioned, it was a sign that the whole experience of lockdown had been long planned. The propaganda apparatus of the Putin regime has for many months published wild allegations from obscure bloggers that the Great Reset is code for oligarchs to amass wealth and control populations. As one of them wrote last month for Russia Today: “The production and supply of goods will be coordinated by a central directorate, led not by elected representatives (whose roles, where they exist, will be nominal anyway) but by technocrat factotums.”
     

    Replies: @ic1000, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Reg Cæsar

    1. I expected that your comment would be a rebuttal of Reg Caesar’s dismissal of your prior assertion, “There is no ‘Great Reset’. That’s one of the biggest lies perpetuated by the Alt Right.”

    Don’t rely on lengthy cut-and-paste excerpts. Use your own words to make your point, clearly and concisely.

    You have it within you to do better, Mr. Crow.

    [MORE]

    2. Learn to use the [!–more–] tag.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @ic1000

    Actually, my response to Reg was spectacular. NOTICE I put Great Reset in quotations. Quotation marks around single words can occasionally be used for emphasis, but only when quoting a word or term someone else used. Usually, this implies the author does not agree with the use of the term.

    Example--He said he was “working”; it looked to me like he was procrastinating.

    Example--You call this filthy room “clean”?!

    When quotation marks are put around a word in this way, they are called scare quotes. Now, had I simply used Great Reset without quotations, then you (and him) would have a point. Moreover, I used specific evidence to demonstrate how the "Great Reset" has been co-opted by the Alt Right to mean something entirely different. The More You Know...

    But management appreciates your concern trolling and virtue signaling.

  59. Indeed. We seem to be moving towards “idiocracy.” I mean, does anyone think that luminaries like Joe Biden, George W. Bush, Ted Kennedy, or Nancy Pelosi, achieved positions of power through their own talent and intelligence? Really? So maybe there is nothing really new here, just a confirmation of what’s been happening for the last 50 years.

    It should also be noted that colleges rank each other on their “exclusivity,” that is, the fraction of applicants that they accept. Having tons of people apply and turning most of them down makes them look good.

    Colleges also like money. A lot of this getting rid fo standards is of course to serve ‘diversity,’ but a lot is just making it easer to cram in more tuition-paying students.

  60. @Corvinus
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Congratulations! You are the first person in the history of the Internet to conflate the “alt-right” with the World Economic Forum"

    Try NOTICING rather than mouthing off.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/55017002


    The WEF recovery plan has been interpreted as sinister, first by fringe conspiracy theory groups on social media, and then by prominent conservative commentators - prompting tens of thousands of interactions across Facebook and Twitter. It started trending globally on Twitter last week, when a video of Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau at a UN meeting, saying the pandemic provided an opportunity for a "reset", went viral. This sparked fresh claims from people, within Canada and further afield, that a cabal of global leaders is using the pandemic to introduce a range of damaging socialist and environmental policies.
     
    https://voi.id/en/bernas/20133/looking-for-a-logical-exposure-of-the-great-reset-the-covid-19-conspiracy-theory-now-campaigned-by-the-world-economic-forum

    Paul Joseph Watson's chirp exploded. The rewards of 947 Retweets, 160 Quote Tweets, and 2,200 Likes are enough to make Paul's tweet the headline of the world's Twitter timeline since Tuesday night, November 17. "The mastermind of the 'Great Reset', Klaus Schwab suggested a number of cruel measures to control the population in his book, including risk assessment brain scans for cross-border and implantable chips to read people's minds," wrote the tweet.
     
    https://capx.co/the-great-reset-is-the-latest-conspiracy-fantasy-it-will-not-be-the-last

    To those who see global policymakers as malign and scheming rather than basically well-intentioned, it was a sign that the whole experience of lockdown had been long planned. The propaganda apparatus of the Putin regime has for many months published wild allegations from obscure bloggers that the Great Reset is code for oligarchs to amass wealth and control populations. As one of them wrote last month for Russia Today: “The production and supply of goods will be coordinated by a central directorate, led not by elected representatives (whose roles, where they exist, will be nominal anyway) but by technocrat factotums.”
     

    Replies: @ic1000, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Reg Cæsar

    What?? No cites from The Atlantic?

  61. @ic1000
    @Corvinus

    1. I expected that your comment would be a rebuttal of Reg Caesar's dismissal of your prior assertion, "There is no 'Great Reset'. That’s one of the biggest lies perpetuated by the Alt Right."

    Don't rely on lengthy cut-and-paste excerpts. Use your own words to make your point, clearly and concisely.

    You have it within you to do better, Mr. Crow.

    2. Learn to use the [!--more--] tag.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    Actually, my response to Reg was spectacular. NOTICE I put Great Reset in quotations. Quotation marks around single words can occasionally be used for emphasis, but only when quoting a word or term someone else used. Usually, this implies the author does not agree with the use of the term.

    Example–He said he was “working”; it looked to me like he was procrastinating.

    Example–You call this filthy room “clean”?!

    When quotation marks are put around a word in this way, they are called scare quotes. Now, had I simply used Great Reset without quotations, then you (and him) would have a point. Moreover, I used specific evidence to demonstrate how the “Great Reset” has been co-opted by the Alt Right to mean something entirely different. The More You Know…

    But management appreciates your concern trolling and virtue signaling.

    • LOL: ic1000
  62. Or maybe all the smart, resentful boomers and gen x who can not stomach that their generation who is supposedly more intelligent, and hence superior to the less talented kids that populated HYP before WW2 ran the country in a far worse manner than their supposedly less intelligent WASP predecessors? Before the 50s the Ivy League chose for moral character as the prime criteria for accepting applicants, rather than intelligence, somehow all those smart resentful people who felt like they can finally have their place in the sun can not face the fact that they made such a mess of things despite their 200 point higher SAT scores compared to the semi-hereditary WASPs that ran the Ivy League before them.

  63. The people who designed the mathematical models that ran the investment banks into the ground in 2008 are the most minds in the country at that time, comparable to the ones in the West Coast.

  64. @Crawfurdmuir
    @Cortes


    Back to the 1920s.
     
    Or perhaps earlier.

    I wonder, though, whether any of the new generation of "'Tim, Nice But Dim' candidates whose parents can afford fees and upkeep during the three or more years" will match for pure academic unseriousness some among those of earlier days.

    Think of William Randolph Hearst, Sr., who enrolled in Harvard College (class of 1885), and became a member of ΔΚΕ, the A.D. Club, Hasty Pudding, and the Lampoon staff before being expelled. As a parting gift, he sent his professors chamber pots that had their portraits painted on the insides. This is a custom that well deserves to be revived.

    Then there was the newspaperman, railroad enthusiast, and bon vivant Lucius Beebe, who was expelled from Yale, completed his undergraduate degree at Harvard College, and finally managed to be expelled from graduate school at Harvard.

    We can only hope!

    Replies: @slumber_j

    Think of William Randolph Hearst, Sr., who enrolled in Harvard College (class of 1885), and became a member of ΔΚΕ, the A.D. Club, Hasty Pudding, and the Lampoon staff before being expelled. As a parting gift, he sent his professors chamber pots that had their portraits painted on the insides. This is a custom that well deserves to be revived.

    I’m pretty sure WRH was in the Spee Club rather than the AD, and it was my understanding that those chamber pots were what got him expelled, although I could be wrong about that. But yeah: great idea.

    Ceramics would be a lifelong passion for him. There’s a lot of that in all his houses, and the comically Flemish castle that he would later build for the Lampoon has a ton of pretty awesome Delft tiles throughout. Their one big drawback is that they hurt your head when you crash into them while drunkenly dancing.

  65. A nice side effect of the no tests/move along regime is that the clueless students won’t be complaining about the incompetent professors.
    Furthemore, if the Biden Schumer Pelosi axis manages to pull off free college for all, there won’t be any of those messy data points lying around, on which critics can pounce.

    Free money from Uncah Suggah? Sign me up!

  66. @Abolish_public_education
    All that money spent on test-prep, down the drain.

    I absolutely LOVE it!

    Replies: @slumber_j

    All that money spent on test-prep, down the drain.

    I would likewise love that, although I’m not sure that’s quite what is happening. My eighth-grader son has just applied to high schools, and the SSAT has also become optional in that process–for the same Woke/Covid set of reasons. Our working hypothesis is that test scores only don’t matter if you’re a NAM or have donated a building or whatever: everyone else had probably better do pretty well on them if they want a chance…

    Time will tell whether we’re right or not. Anyway, no test-prep for our son, because it’s boring and gross.

    One interesting dynamic with boarding schools in the Covid Age: most of them have increasingly relied on the importation of full-paying foreigners (especially Chinese) to make their nut, and some of that cash is now drying up. My guess is that their student bodies will therefore be getting significantly more American as a result–and especially more rich-kid American. I expect this is happening with lower-tier colleges as well.

    By the way, the notion that rich kids are gonna tend to be dumber may be satisfying but seems to me to run against the realist tenor of this blog and its commenters. Most rich guys get their money at least in part because they’re exceptionally smart (some are also exceptionally venal, but that’s a separate question). If intelligence is fairly heritable, won’t their children mostly be pretty smart too?

    In my experience they generally are, and good-looking too: that of course serves to make their wealth even more annoying, if you allow it to be.

  67. Skip testing, and use a simple color scheme instead.

  68. Anon[362] • Disclaimer says:

    The plan is to ban the SAT and ACT now and in a few years introduce a brand new U. of California-devised nonracist test that has the same predictive validity as the old racist tests, but on which blacks and Latinos score as well as Asians. Why didn’t anybody ever think of inventing that before? How hard could it be?

    I don’t think this is true. This was the plan pre-pandemic, but after Covid they got greedy and went for the whole reset. I don’t believe anyone is talking about adopting the SmarterBalanced test anymore. That idea has been memoryholed.

    The faculty commission that recommended that the SAT and ACT be retained included an assessment of SmarterBalanced in their report, and they felt that the minor gap compression exhibitied by the test would evaporate once it became a high stakes test and Asians and whites started to take it seriously. The whole SmarterBalanced test sequence would not have been adopted, so exactaly what the proposal was, was not clear. There are portions of the test sequence that involve teachers assigning subjective marks based on group projects, which is probably where any gap compression happens: It’s a completely obfuscated, audit-proof way to game standardized testing.

  69. @syonredux

    UC-Berkeley has taken a more radical step. It removed the SAT and ACT from admission decisions, a policy known as “test-free” or “test-blind.”
     
    Why not also drop GPA and conduct admissions via lottery? Of course, that would be a little too egalitarian for our equity-obsessed era....

    Replies: @stillCARealist

    I think what they want is to wind up taking the top 10% of all HS students and distributing them throughout the UC’s. Berkeley will find ways to get the top 10% of the 10% and fill up the remaining spots with foreigners.

    If your goal is to use HS grades to determine a college spot, then the focus will go back on classwork and homework. No more will you have to spend all this outside time prepping for a test, instead you’ll have to actually pay attention in school and do the work. This will, of course, mean the same students who got high test scores will now dominate the high GPA ranks. Just as they do now.

    But will the HS’s have the nerve to give grades that actually reflect the reality of their students’ work? Suddenly all their B students will become C students and plenty of the former “barely passing” types will be flunkies. No, that will never fly.

    Further, what about all the homeschoolers (and there are lots now) who automatically get A’s in everything and have all this extra time for extracurriculars? Are the admissions people going to know how to evaluate them?

    • Replies: @Abolish_public_education
    @stillCARealist

    It’s true that kids who attend home school have extra time for extra-curricular activities.

    Our homeschooled kids accomplished more in two hours than public school kids would in a week. Yep. (We were shocked to realize how much time in-school kids must waste on non-learning activities such as attendance taking, line ups, assemblies, dealing with disruptions, satisfying edicts, etc.)

    But like most homeschoolers, we weren’t rich. Expenditures for ice time, tennis lessons, etc. quickly add up. So when it came to activities, we had to economize.

    You know what’s really something?

    Private (including home) school kids are typically prohibited, by the districts, from participation in public school, extra-curricular (especially sports) activities; public schools shouldn’t exist, much less offer sports, to begin with.

    Private, youth sports is a real pay-to-play business. As a “free”, competitive alternative, even if we had wanted our kids to join the local high school swim team, they would not have been allowed.

    We pay. They play.

    Also, if public school conferences nowadays don’t deliberately exclude private schools altogether (the only
    Catholic school football team in an area might have to travel overnight just to get a game), the public teams will often not show up for (i.e. forfeit) games against their “unfairly recruited!”, private school opponents.

    The home school math, Model UN, Greek language, etc. teams will make them look bad.

  70. @Corvinus
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Congratulations! You are the first person in the history of the Internet to conflate the “alt-right” with the World Economic Forum"

    Try NOTICING rather than mouthing off.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/55017002


    The WEF recovery plan has been interpreted as sinister, first by fringe conspiracy theory groups on social media, and then by prominent conservative commentators - prompting tens of thousands of interactions across Facebook and Twitter. It started trending globally on Twitter last week, when a video of Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau at a UN meeting, saying the pandemic provided an opportunity for a "reset", went viral. This sparked fresh claims from people, within Canada and further afield, that a cabal of global leaders is using the pandemic to introduce a range of damaging socialist and environmental policies.
     
    https://voi.id/en/bernas/20133/looking-for-a-logical-exposure-of-the-great-reset-the-covid-19-conspiracy-theory-now-campaigned-by-the-world-economic-forum

    Paul Joseph Watson's chirp exploded. The rewards of 947 Retweets, 160 Quote Tweets, and 2,200 Likes are enough to make Paul's tweet the headline of the world's Twitter timeline since Tuesday night, November 17. "The mastermind of the 'Great Reset', Klaus Schwab suggested a number of cruel measures to control the population in his book, including risk assessment brain scans for cross-border and implantable chips to read people's minds," wrote the tweet.
     
    https://capx.co/the-great-reset-is-the-latest-conspiracy-fantasy-it-will-not-be-the-last

    To those who see global policymakers as malign and scheming rather than basically well-intentioned, it was a sign that the whole experience of lockdown had been long planned. The propaganda apparatus of the Putin regime has for many months published wild allegations from obscure bloggers that the Great Reset is code for oligarchs to amass wealth and control populations. As one of them wrote last month for Russia Today: “The production and supply of goods will be coordinated by a central directorate, led not by elected representatives (whose roles, where they exist, will be nominal anyway) but by technocrat factotums.”
     

    Replies: @ic1000, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Reg Cæsar

    To those who see global policymakers as malign and scheming rather than basically well-intentioned…

    Malignity is easier to deal with. It’s the “well-intentioned” ones who are truly dangerous. Robespierre was “The Incorruptible”.

  71. @danand
    @KL

    “Berkeley will not admit many “diverse” students, or it will struggle to retain and graduate them.”

    KL, can’t say I know the exact quantification of “many”, or for that matter what constitutes diverse, but it looks as though UC Berkeley is well on it’s way to stirring up it’s perfect mix of Freshman “admits”.

    https://flic.kr/p/2kwWLKj

    https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data

    Note the Underrepresented Minorities for 2020’s Freshman class will for the first time exceed 25%.

    What I can say is, “Go Bears!”

    Replies: @Polistra, @stillCARealist

    it looks like white kids aren’t even bothering to apply to UC Berkeley. My kids didn’t. Either that, or they have a tiny acceptance rate. I wonder if the few that do get in are going to shine like stars in the heavens or just be tokens.

  72. @Morton's toes
    @Hypnotoad666

    Nobody is going to really care who gets in because a degree from Cal class 2026 won't be worth anything more than U of Mississippi class of 2026.

    They had already fallen out of the US News & World Report Top Ten. Fifty years ago they were close to number one, and they were the undisputed world champion public university. The only permanence is change! (I hope you went to a good school where they covered this.)

    Replies: @Polistra, @Old Palo Altan

    In June it will be fifty years since I graduated from Cal.

    I wasn’t exactly proud of the fact: I had happily coasted through doing precisely and only what I wanted with my time, as, come to think of it, I have more or less done ever since.

    But I was proud of the place, and of a California which had built up over a hundred years of conscious planning and effort the greatest public university in the world.

    To hell with Ogundele and his enablers.

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    @Old Palo Altan


    had built up over a hundred years of conscious planning and effort the greatest public university in the world.

     

    It was the nuclear weapons projects more than anything else. That Commie Oppenheimer was our single largest benefactor.

    Replies: @Deckin

  73. Good, good. Let the incompetent rise, they screw up everything, and get exterminated by the competent who become the new elite. Life goes on.

  74. @Old Palo Altan
    @Morton's toes

    In June it will be fifty years since I graduated from Cal.

    I wasn't exactly proud of the fact: I had happily coasted through doing precisely and only what I wanted with my time, as, come to think of it, I have more or less done ever since.

    But I was proud of the place, and of a California which had built up over a hundred years of conscious planning and effort the greatest public university in the world.

    To hell with Ogundele and his enablers.

    Replies: @Morton's toes

    had built up over a hundred years of conscious planning and effort the greatest public university in the world.

    It was the nuclear weapons projects more than anything else. That Commie Oppenheimer was our single largest benefactor.

    • Replies: @Deckin
    @Morton's toes

    Berkeley has never been in the US News & World Report top 10 for undergraduate degrees. That's because that ranking was rigged for private schools by using graduate donations as a metric of the quality of the school. For graduate school, any ranking that has them outside the top 3 in the world is useless.

    But, before the current insanity, if you looked at SAT scores, it's always been near the top. And if you're on the ground in CA or in education, you know that the chances of an Asian or White high school student with a 4.+ GPA getting into Cal (even with perfect SAT scores back in the day) was 50/50 for the white kid and less than that for the Asian.

    The bulk of the kids there may be deficient in many things (knowledge of general history, but even there they'll surprise you--lots of autodidacts in the internet era--don't believe all the horror stories), but in raw cognitive horsepower, they're not. Most of them are just inches away from a major red pilling--who knows, maybe the GME short squeeze might have some effect?

  75. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Nathan


    Here’s the beauty of it- getting more rich dumb kids to apply and rejecting them actually makes the school look MORE exclusive. The smaller percentage of admitted applicants will help boost the school’s perception of eliteness and the school’s US News ranking, particularly if you assume that the advantage of higher test scores in terms of USNWR rankings is limited by all the elite schools already having maxed out test scores for their admitted applicants.

     

    Yes, for HPY, Stanford, Chicago, etc., this new and more 'equitable' regime is perfect. They'll have no problem identifying the minimum number of genuinely smart admits they need to fill up their hard science and math programs, and to provide a respectable base for their other departments. Their massive admissions staffs (which they have the resources to expand as needed) have the time and wherewithal to sift through applications that come in with or without test scores to look for markers of genuine talent.

    But this approach may not work in the long run for the better public universities such as Berkeley. Without the incredibly useful test score shorthand to use as a tool, will they have the time to sift through increasing numbers of applications at the micro level, looking for the signs of real academic ability? They're doubly hampered, i.e. they have more applications to deal with than ever before, and they lack a single criterion by which they can immediately eliminate a large proportion of applicants so they can then focus on the serious ones.

    Replies: @Nathan, @Supertzar

    genuine talent

    real academic ability

    I wonder to what extent Woke needs this. Do the producers of its texts strike you as intellectually nimble, sensitive to the subtleties of things? I fear humanities departments are content to go without anyone who really gets Shakespeare, Joyce, the ancients. They can just censure them or jerk themselves off over how genderqueer it was that time a girl character pretended to be a boy when the actor playing her was a boy pretending to be a girl. Mind = blown!

  76. So you’re one of those STEM people.

    I suppose you are correct about all that science (yawn), but I was thinking of the superb history, English, Classics, philosophy and other humanities departments which are (were) traditionally considered the backbone of any university worthy of the name.

    And we all know what Oppenheimer thought of his handiwork; “The physicists have known sin, and this is a knowledge which they cannot lose.”

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    @Old Palo Altan

    Did you ever take a class from this guy?

    https://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2009/04/images/Searle-fsm.jpg

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan, @Richard B

  77. @stillCARealist
    @syonredux

    I think what they want is to wind up taking the top 10% of all HS students and distributing them throughout the UC's. Berkeley will find ways to get the top 10% of the 10% and fill up the remaining spots with foreigners.

    If your goal is to use HS grades to determine a college spot, then the focus will go back on classwork and homework. No more will you have to spend all this outside time prepping for a test, instead you'll have to actually pay attention in school and do the work. This will, of course, mean the same students who got high test scores will now dominate the high GPA ranks. Just as they do now.

    But will the HS's have the nerve to give grades that actually reflect the reality of their students' work? Suddenly all their B students will become C students and plenty of the former "barely passing" types will be flunkies. No, that will never fly.

    Further, what about all the homeschoolers (and there are lots now) who automatically get A's in everything and have all this extra time for extracurriculars? Are the admissions people going to know how to evaluate them?

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

    It’s true that kids who attend home school have extra time for extra-curricular activities.

    Our homeschooled kids accomplished more in two hours than public school kids would in a week. Yep. (We were shocked to realize how much time in-school kids must waste on non-learning activities such as attendance taking, line ups, assemblies, dealing with disruptions, satisfying edicts, etc.)

    But like most homeschoolers, we weren’t rich. Expenditures for ice time, tennis lessons, etc. quickly add up. So when it came to activities, we had to economize.

    [MORE]

    You know what’s really something?

    Private (including home) school kids are typically prohibited, by the districts, from participation in public school, extra-curricular (especially sports) activities; public schools shouldn’t exist, much less offer sports, to begin with.

    Private, youth sports is a real pay-to-play business. As a “free”, competitive alternative, even if we had wanted our kids to join the local high school swim team, they would not have been allowed.

    We pay. They play.

    Also, if public school conferences nowadays don’t deliberately exclude private schools altogether (the only
    Catholic school football team in an area might have to travel overnight just to get a game), the public teams will often not show up for (i.e. forfeit) games against their “unfairly recruited!”, private school opponents.

    The home school math, Model UN, Greek language, etc. teams will make them look bad.

  78. @Hannah Katz
    @Nathan

    Silly rich kids. You will not get into Berkeley. Only protected group members: People of Color, gays, lesbians, trannies, Muslims, Hindus, Confucians, agnostics, etc.

    Replies: @Nathan

    Well yeah, that’s who runs California, so that’s pretty much what I’m saying.

  79. @Morton's toes
    @Old Palo Altan


    had built up over a hundred years of conscious planning and effort the greatest public university in the world.

     

    It was the nuclear weapons projects more than anything else. That Commie Oppenheimer was our single largest benefactor.

    Replies: @Deckin

    Berkeley has never been in the US News & World Report top 10 for undergraduate degrees. That’s because that ranking was rigged for private schools by using graduate donations as a metric of the quality of the school. For graduate school, any ranking that has them outside the top 3 in the world is useless.

    But, before the current insanity, if you looked at SAT scores, it’s always been near the top. And if you’re on the ground in CA or in education, you know that the chances of an Asian or White high school student with a 4.+ GPA getting into Cal (even with perfect SAT scores back in the day) was 50/50 for the white kid and less than that for the Asian.

    The bulk of the kids there may be deficient in many things (knowledge of general history, but even there they’ll surprise you–lots of autodidacts in the internet era–don’t believe all the horror stories), but in raw cognitive horsepower, they’re not. Most of them are just inches away from a major red pilling–who knows, maybe the GME short squeeze might have some effect?

  80. @Old Palo Altan
    So you're one of those STEM people.

    I suppose you are correct about all that science (yawn), but I was thinking of the superb history, English, Classics, philosophy and other humanities departments which are (were) traditionally considered the backbone of any university worthy of the name.

    And we all know what Oppenheimer thought of his handiwork; "The physicists have known sin, and this is a knowledge which they cannot lose."

    Replies: @Morton's toes

    Did you ever take a class from this guy?

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    @Morton's toes

    No. Didn't he teach graduates only? One of the reasons I drifted away from philosophy at Berkeley was that beginning undergraduates were rarely afforded the pleasure of listening to the leading men in the department: almost all such introductory classes were taught by teaching assistants. Since they were working on their doctorates at the same time, they were not exactly scintillating as lecturers or much interested in us. In fact I remember only one full professor who taught an introductory course: the course was logic and the man who taught it was William Craig, a brilliant lecturer and a charming man. I took something with Paul Feyerabend too. The guest lecturers were often world famous: I remember Michael Polanyi and, amazingly, the Thomist Etienne Gilson, who was already over 80.
    In the end the relentless logical positivism got me down, and I went over to history which, in those days, was run by conservatives, or at least men with a respect for the West and its achievements.

    On a side note: I am struck by how well dressed almost everybody is in that photo, which would have been taken in 1964 or 5. By the time I got there in 1967 such normative formality was already a thing of the past.

    , @Richard B
    @Morton's toes

    Wh0 is he?

    Replies: @photondancer

  81. @Morton's toes
    @Old Palo Altan

    Did you ever take a class from this guy?

    https://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2009/04/images/Searle-fsm.jpg

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan, @Richard B

    No. Didn’t he teach graduates only? One of the reasons I drifted away from philosophy at Berkeley was that beginning undergraduates were rarely afforded the pleasure of listening to the leading men in the department: almost all such introductory classes were taught by teaching assistants. Since they were working on their doctorates at the same time, they were not exactly scintillating as lecturers or much interested in us. In fact I remember only one full professor who taught an introductory course: the course was logic and the man who taught it was William Craig, a brilliant lecturer and a charming man. I took something with Paul Feyerabend too. The guest lecturers were often world famous: I remember Michael Polanyi and, amazingly, the Thomist Etienne Gilson, who was already over 80.
    In the end the relentless logical positivism got me down, and I went over to history which, in those days, was run by conservatives, or at least men with a respect for the West and its achievements.

    On a side note: I am struck by how well dressed almost everybody is in that photo, which would have been taken in 1964 or 5. By the time I got there in 1967 such normative formality was already a thing of the past.

  82. Anonymous[121] • Disclaimer says:

    Not sure why Steve is always defensive of the ‘90s/‘00s version of the college admissions racket. It should burn.

    We have remote certification now for any employees or employers who put less weight on 4-5 or 5 and a half years of social credentialing at the glittering edu-resort.

    Probably he’d say those alternatives are more vulnerable to cheating by devious foreigners. Unlike the grades/tests at Harvard & Stanford, of course.

  83. @Reg Cæsar
    Harvard has taken dumb rich kids for centuries. The difference is, they used to come out smart.


    Today the process is reversed.

    Replies: @Alden, @Orville H. Larson

    Piss on Harvard’s pretentiousness. As the saying goes:

    “You can always tell a Harvard man, but you can’t tell him much.”

  84. @Alden
    @Kibernetika

    How many angels can dance on the head of a pin or how small is small, can small become smaller and smaller into infinity was the beginning of physics. Same old coots invented the scientific method. They called it scholasticism.

    When I worked at UCLA I noticed the hiring at the engineering school.

    First batch were hired in February-March. All Asian all foreigners on Student visas. Second batch, March-May all Asian no American citizens immigrants with green cards but not yet citizens In May the Asian Americans citizens were the last to be hired.
    The White men either went to grad school in the hope that would help them getting a job, became high school substitute math teachers or gig jobs nothing to do with tech and engineering.

    My friend Xiabo’s father purposely delayed Xiabo’s citizenship process Because Dad knew that the tech companies don’t want American citizens. After Xiabo felt secure after a year he completed the citizenship process. But his employer still thinks he’s still just a legal immigrant.

    Employers don’t want White Americans.

    A friend involved herself in her kids college application process. They went to one of those college recruitment fairs. She ran into someone she’d gone to college with working as an admissions critter.

    She invited him home for dinner. This what he told them.

    Colleges don’t really want White public school kids. They want minority public school kids. Because the government demands non Whites. Plus all the minority grants allow the colleges to keep rising and rising tuition.
    The colleges really want private school Whites.
    Because they figure if the parents had money to pay private school tuition, the parents have money to make big donations to the colleges. Donations before and during the students actual attendance.

    Private schools also scrounge around for donations before and during the kids attendance.

    I remember a friend of my brothers told me his toddlers would go to a prestige private school. I asked about the admissions test. Why did he think these toddlers would pass. He replied his parents kids grandparents started giving $20,000 a year to the school as soon as the wife got pregnant.

    Colleges don’t want White Americans. Neither do employers.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @AnonAnon, @Kibernetika

    Good insight.

    Colleges don’t want White Americans. Neither do employers.

    But most schools need to keep at least a 50% white enrollment rate for now. If they didn’t, it’d be too obvious. It’s true that very few white kids enter the hard science programs. Chinese nationals and their associates dominate so many research labs in the US. It’s an obvious racket, but no one seems to care.

    But there are employers happy to hire intelligent white kids. A lot of it comes down to communication skills.

  85. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    The whole system relies on Whites - and Asians - playing by the rules, but the rules are quickly losing their legitimacy.

    Screw them. Put down black or Hispanic. That's what I tell my kids. Throw sand in the gears.

    Who cares? The system hates Whites. Why would we respect it?

    What say you, Steve? Respect the system that hates you or not? Time to stop being the joker, chose a side.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Richard B

    What say you, Steve?

    Here’s one thing he says:

    Harvard hasn’t been on top of the American college game since 1636 by being stupid.

    It would be more accurate to say that Harvard has been on top of the American college game since the 1960’s by promoting stupid. Thereby turning The Ivy League into The Poison Ivy League. An A at Harvard stands for Average and has for a long time.

    Since most, if not all, of our educational institutions follow Harvard’s lead, and since our governmental and economic institutions follow our educational institutions, the deterioration in our educational institutions has led to a corresponding deterioration of the rest of our social institutions.

    And since social institutions are properly seen as any civilization’s means of adaptation, the deterioration of our social institutions as a consequence of promoting stupid has led to the collapse of our civilization. A fact proven on every street corner. Just look around.

    How smart is that?

  86. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Wrong. Start building our own communities, very slowly and very quietly.

    There's much to be done for those who love their people. So many here choose to snicker behind the bully's back rather than do the little things day in and day out that could save us.

    Don't fall into that trap. Even if we lose, at least you went out as a man.

    Steve has been great for our side, but, sadly, he's not on our side. I wish him the best, but we need to acknowledge this sad fact.

    Replies: @Alden, @Richard B

    Steve has been great for our side, but, sadly, he’s not on our side.

    What makes you say “he’s not on our side”?

    I’ve read other comments saying the same thing, and I’m not saying you’re not right. I’d just be interested to know why you feel that way.

  87. @Morton's toes
    @Old Palo Altan

    Did you ever take a class from this guy?

    https://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2009/04/images/Searle-fsm.jpg

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan, @Richard B

    Wh0 is he?

    • Replies: @photondancer
    @Richard B

    John Searle. The image is a hyperlink but it's broken. Should be https://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2009/04/23_searle.shtml

    In the article he defends free speech and denounces relativism. You could still do that in 2009.

    Replies: @Morton's toes

  88. @Voltarde
    SETI - the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence - has tried for decades to get any responses to their signals sent out into the universe. I used to view that as a record of failure. Maybe it's actually a record of success. If the people on planet Earth who were mainly responsible for whatever intelligence was ever displayed by humanity cannot be bothered to sustain and advance serious scholarship, value the sacrifices and accomplishments of their ancestors, or even be bothered to raise children and preserve their civilization, why would truly intelligent extra-terrestrial aliens bother replying to human efforts to contact them?

    Replies: @Stan Adams

  89. @Richard B
    @Morton's toes

    Wh0 is he?

    Replies: @photondancer

    John Searle. The image is a hyperlink but it’s broken. Should be https://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2009/04/23_searle.shtml

    In the article he defends free speech and denounces relativism. You could still do that in 2009.

    • Thanks: Richard B
    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    @photondancer

    He also has been canceled. He might be the most illustrious philosophy professor in history at UC but some 10$ an hour busybody saw something on his office computer screen and made it her business to destroy the Great Man's retirement. I forget the details. Probably a Pam Anderson Baywatch cleavage close up.

    Before he became famous as a philosopher he was one of the top faculty guy's supporting the free speech movement / opposing the military industrial university activity. He was either brave or totally crazy but it's a memorable episode.

    Dreyfus's AI argument is way better than Searle's if you want to compare UC philosophy department AI arguments though.

    Paywalled but they show all the exact references and at least one should be accessible to all:

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11023-008-9093-7

    Replies: @photondancer

  90. Given The Woke’s love for all things African-American, should they not instead apply to historically black colleges like Howard, Morehouse and Grambling? Those schools be inundated with applications with the children of Social Justice Warriors seeking the full measure of the African-American experience.

  91. @photondancer
    @Richard B

    John Searle. The image is a hyperlink but it's broken. Should be https://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2009/04/23_searle.shtml

    In the article he defends free speech and denounces relativism. You could still do that in 2009.

    Replies: @Morton's toes

    He also has been canceled. He might be the most illustrious philosophy professor in history at UC but some 10$ an hour busybody saw something on his office computer screen and made it her business to destroy the Great Man’s retirement. I forget the details. Probably a Pam Anderson Baywatch cleavage close up.

    Before he became famous as a philosopher he was one of the top faculty guy’s supporting the free speech movement / opposing the military industrial university activity. He was either brave or totally crazy but it’s a memorable episode.

    Dreyfus’s AI argument is way better than Searle’s if you want to compare UC philosophy department AI arguments though.

    Paywalled but they show all the exact references and at least one should be accessible to all:

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11023-008-9093-7

    • Replies: @photondancer
    @Morton's toes

    Thanks! I'm very familiar with Searle's argument but not Dreyfus', so I'll follow this up.

    Doesn't surprise me to hear Searle was targeted. He's an old white man who achieved something with his life, after all. Actually, now I've looked it up I do recall hearing something about the case. It sounded like the usual woke neo-puritanism. It's going to be very amusing in a few years when all the 20-something woke women who've spent the last 10 years screeching "damn your eyes sir, how dare you make a sexual advance towards me!" start wailing "no man is interested in me!" instead as their biological clocks wind down.

  92. Dreyfus certainly does have the better argument, but what struck me about the abstract of the article you reference is how badly written it is:

    known for his rigorous critique on the underlying assumptions

    assume that creating a thinking machine like the human brain is not a too far away project

    the workings of human intelligence is entirely

    this paper aims to pinpointing the major flaws

    Plato’s theory of knowledge, in which myths and allegorical narratives are used recurrently, the body is conceived as a tomb for the soul.

    Sheesh. All of these sloppy errors are easily corrected, and yet none were. Bad editing? Or the tacit understanding that whatever a black person writes is necessarily immaculate?

    • Replies: @No Recent Commenting History
    @Old Palo Altan

    what struck me about the abstract of the article you reference is how badly written it is:

    At best it is sophomore-level work, and in need of editing / revision. The decline of standards over the last N years has many implications.

    Tangent: it is always worth bearing in mind that the last breakthrough in AI research was the back-error-propagation algorithm of the late 1980's. This enabled finite-state machines to be trained to recognize and classify things with remarkable accuracy, far better than the previous efforts dating back to the mid 1960's. Sure, it's been refined over the last 30+ years, and now such things can be trained on very large data sets, but -- there's been no real improvement or innovation over that time.

    And for all of that, these are still rather paltry abstract models of a set of neurons; less complex than the nervous system of a fly.

    , @Morton's toes
    @Old Palo Altan

    My default when the reading gets bumpy--go fast. I occasionally judge a book as unreadable but it's rare. Usually I picked up the book with unrealistic expectations. I was looking forward to reading Pasilski's American Cosmic. And I tried hard to read the stupid thing. But about two thirds of the way I gave up and I flew through the last third (about 10 seconds per page) and threw the book into the dumpster on my next trip.

    If I had expected little I would have started reading fast a lot earlier and the book might still be here.

  93. @Old Palo Altan
    Dreyfus certainly does have the better argument, but what struck me about the abstract of the article you reference is how badly written it is:

    known for his rigorous critique on the underlying assumptions

    assume that creating a thinking machine like the human brain is not a too far away project

    the workings of human intelligence is entirely

    this paper aims to pinpointing the major flaws

    Plato’s theory of knowledge, in which myths and allegorical narratives are used recurrently, the body is conceived as a tomb for the soul.

    Sheesh. All of these sloppy errors are easily corrected, and yet none were. Bad editing? Or the tacit understanding that whatever a black person writes is necessarily immaculate?

    Replies: @No Recent Commenting History, @Morton's toes

    what struck me about the abstract of the article you reference is how badly written it is:

    At best it is sophomore-level work, and in need of editing / revision. The decline of standards over the last N years has many implications.

    Tangent: it is always worth bearing in mind that the last breakthrough in AI research was the back-error-propagation algorithm of the late 1980’s. This enabled finite-state machines to be trained to recognize and classify things with remarkable accuracy, far better than the previous efforts dating back to the mid 1960’s. Sure, it’s been refined over the last 30+ years, and now such things can be trained on very large data sets, but — there’s been no real improvement or innovation over that time.

    And for all of that, these are still rather paltry abstract models of a set of neurons; less complex than the nervous system of a fly.

  94. anonymous[364] • Disclaimer says:

    128/comment 63, the Gaussian copula is just a fancy interpolation model, like all option pricing. It’ll put any real mathematician to sleep. And while interpolation is more consistent that you can be in your head, it likes pathological, terminally corrupted markets just fine. So the higher-order cognitive functions that let you sell too soon are ultimately more important. And most of the quants of 2008 lacked that.

  95. anon[201] • Disclaimer says:

    Here’s the test replacing the SAT, for all you poors to bone up on.
    Fill in all circles completely.

    23. It’s 30° F. What wax (glide, not klister) do you use?
    ○ Blue
    ○ Purple
    ○ Kick
    ○ No Mo-Stache Lip Wax

    24. You’re sailing back into the sound at sunset. Where is the wind coming from?
    ○ East
    ○ South
    ○ North
    ○ the air

    25. You’re the Captain of the Oppidans. What kind of oarlock do you have?
    ○ Swivel
    ○ Fixed pin
    ○ Thole
    ○ I don’t have earlocks, I’m reform

    26. Your family office is considering a privacy jurisdiction for domiciliation of your trust fund. Which jurisdiction is least constrained by FIU Best Practices?
    ○ Cook Islands
    ○ Panama
    ○ Switzerland
    ○ Office Max

  96. Three cheers for the death of American higher ed.

  97. @Alden
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Any community the misogynist White women hating Men of UNZ build would have to exclude the White women you hate . So it would last only a couple generations.

    Or you guys would have to constantly find new recruits, like monks and gays.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Donald A Thomson

    The majority of white women voted for Trump in 2016. I expect it was the same in 2020.

    Are you surprised that the US media only mentions the white woman minority who voted for Hillary Clinton? All she needed to do to win against Trump was to get a majority of the white womens’ vote.

    Whites are still a large majority of US citizens even without counting the large majority of Latin American Whites. Of course, if they were included in the White group, Trump’s support amongst white women would crash. As they continue to establish businesses and get good educations, that will change in the future. Democrat Party ownership of the US Latin American vote depends on their always being poor. The right often wins elections in Latin America.

    The Democrats have believed for a long time in lawyers creating legislation but it’s only recently that they’ve believed in a system of US censorship run by billionaires. That didn’t surprise me because I’ve always believed most Democrat politicians were corrupt. I am surprised their voters are gullible enough to support it. After all, most of their voters aren’t billionaires. I doubt you are. Perhaps you’re an extreme right winger who believes in complete subservience to billionaires. That’s now less true of Republicans than Democrats. [email protected]

  98. @Morton's toes
    @photondancer

    He also has been canceled. He might be the most illustrious philosophy professor in history at UC but some 10$ an hour busybody saw something on his office computer screen and made it her business to destroy the Great Man's retirement. I forget the details. Probably a Pam Anderson Baywatch cleavage close up.

    Before he became famous as a philosopher he was one of the top faculty guy's supporting the free speech movement / opposing the military industrial university activity. He was either brave or totally crazy but it's a memorable episode.

    Dreyfus's AI argument is way better than Searle's if you want to compare UC philosophy department AI arguments though.

    Paywalled but they show all the exact references and at least one should be accessible to all:

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11023-008-9093-7

    Replies: @photondancer

    Thanks! I’m very familiar with Searle’s argument but not Dreyfus’, so I’ll follow this up.

    Doesn’t surprise me to hear Searle was targeted. He’s an old white man who achieved something with his life, after all. Actually, now I’ve looked it up I do recall hearing something about the case. It sounded like the usual woke neo-puritanism. It’s going to be very amusing in a few years when all the 20-something woke women who’ve spent the last 10 years screeching “damn your eyes sir, how dare you make a sexual advance towards me!” start wailing “no man is interested in me!” instead as their biological clocks wind down.

  99. @Old Palo Altan
    Dreyfus certainly does have the better argument, but what struck me about the abstract of the article you reference is how badly written it is:

    known for his rigorous critique on the underlying assumptions

    assume that creating a thinking machine like the human brain is not a too far away project

    the workings of human intelligence is entirely

    this paper aims to pinpointing the major flaws

    Plato’s theory of knowledge, in which myths and allegorical narratives are used recurrently, the body is conceived as a tomb for the soul.

    Sheesh. All of these sloppy errors are easily corrected, and yet none were. Bad editing? Or the tacit understanding that whatever a black person writes is necessarily immaculate?

    Replies: @No Recent Commenting History, @Morton's toes

    My default when the reading gets bumpy–go fast. I occasionally judge a book as unreadable but it’s rare. Usually I picked up the book with unrealistic expectations. I was looking forward to reading Pasilski’s American Cosmic. And I tried hard to read the stupid thing. But about two thirds of the way I gave up and I flew through the last third (about 10 seconds per page) and threw the book into the dumpster on my next trip.

    If I had expected little I would have started reading fast a lot earlier and the book might still be here.

  100. At least in this instance my reaction was the opposite. I read for a quick idea of the sense, but kept chuddering to a stop over the illiterately odd sentences.
    So I went back and painstakingly noted them all down, in an increasing fury of disbelief.

    But I had to smile at your dumptsering a bad book – quite pleasurable, isn’t it?
    Far better than sending them to a charity shop, where they might still do some damage.

    And thanks for the interview with Searle, which I much enjoyed.

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