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Reassessing Susan Brownmiller After 40 Years
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From an interview with Susan Brownmiller, author of the feminist classic Against Our Will, in People in 1975:

‘Rape Is a Crime Not of Lust, but Power,’ Argues Susan Brownmiller

By Sally Moore

November 10, 1975 Vol. 4 No. 19

… What first interested you in rape?

The subject came up at my consciousness-raising group: until then I had never spoken about it. I was shocked to find women I knew who’d been raped. I realized how many misconceptions I had and thought, if I was that wrong, it was worth studying.

What were some of your major misconceptions?

Those of anyone growing up in the liberal New York City milieu. To me, rape was a screaming vindictive white woman and a framed black man. I had no sympathy or identification with rape victims. It was all the fault of women who led men on.

What do statistics show?

That most rape is black on black, that it is basically an intraclass, intraracial crime because of opportunity. But there is a definite rise in the percentage of interracial rape.

Why is it increasing?

It’s part and parcel of increasing violence rather than sex, partly because the criminal population is rising and becoming more adventurous. I think writers like Eldridge Cleaver and Franz Fanon, who tried to give rape an ideological justification, didn’t help. They tried to justify interracial rape as some sort of political act. It’s typical of the left to make a convicted rapist a hero.

One perspective on Brownmiller is that in 1975 she represented the far left edge of the right wing backlash against the crime wave that got going around 1964. That makes her an interesting person. Her argument that rape and political power are correlated can be overblown, but I find it useful.

 
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  1. Something I’ve noticed about many of these old-time leftist founding figures is that individually, they could be pretty politically incorrect. The modern SJW left has cherry picked their teachings to create a sanitized synthesis lacking that nuance.

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    • Replies: @MQ
    That's quite true. We have seen it most recently in the case of Germaine Greer, one of that founding generation, who dared to say that men in dresses were not in fact women and got subjected to the usual screeching censorship attempts from the left for doing so.

    I think the deal with the founders was that, agree or disagree with them, they were genuinely independent. They were genuinely going against a powerful consensus to say what they said. Unlike today, the left was not about conformity with an existing authoritarian trend. That personality characteristic of independence does not go away, and often produces surprising sets of ideas.

    , @dried peanuts
    yep look at germaine greer's recent troubles
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  2. Mass rapes in the aftermath of conquest are certainly an expression of power. Is that what is happening in Sweden and Germany right now? Are the migrants/refugees/invaders showing their new dominance by taking the conquered people’s women? I think that this may be beyond ordinary criminality.

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    • Replies: @iSteveFan
    I also think the lack of a heavy physical response by the locals probably confirms to them they are indeed conquerors. One would think that local German men would have gathered and pounded a few of these guys into ground. By not doing so they are probably going to invite more such attacks.

    A couple years ago some Mexican sailors tried to harass some Polish women on a Baltic beach. The local Poles did not take it lying down. This should have been the response in Germany.
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  3. @IHTG
    Something I've noticed about many of these old-time leftist founding figures is that individually, they could be pretty politically incorrect. The modern SJW left has cherry picked their teachings to create a sanitized synthesis lacking that nuance.

    That’s quite true. We have seen it most recently in the case of Germaine Greer, one of that founding generation, who dared to say that men in dresses were not in fact women and got subjected to the usual screeching censorship attempts from the left for doing so.

    I think the deal with the founders was that, agree or disagree with them, they were genuinely independent. They were genuinely going against a powerful consensus to say what they said. Unlike today, the left was not about conformity with an existing authoritarian trend. That personality characteristic of independence does not go away, and often produces surprising sets of ideas.

    Read More
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  4. @IHTG
    Something I've noticed about many of these old-time leftist founding figures is that individually, they could be pretty politically incorrect. The modern SJW left has cherry picked their teachings to create a sanitized synthesis lacking that nuance.

    yep look at germaine greer’s recent troubles

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  5. It’s striking how plain-speaking and lucid Brownmiller comes across in that excerpt. Very few commentators today could pull that off while talking about such subjects.

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  6. As a former graduate student in social sciences, and a student of political and intellectual memes, I am well aware of the ‘rape is power, not sex’ argument.

    I’ve frankly never understood it, and more specifically, never understood the stridency with which it has always been argued. One could imagine a disagreement over some theory: crime is caused by culture, crime is caused by economic opportunity, crime is caused by lack of educational options, crime is caused by genetics, etc. These theories may be wrong, they may be right, and one may accept one but not the others.
    But disagreement doesn’t result in the outrage that disagreement with ‘rape is about power’ elicits.

    ‘Rape is power, not sex’ I guess could be right (I think its wrong), but I just don’t know why it matters. If I believe rape is about power, or instead, I believe rape is about sex: what difference does it make? How is the definition of the sociological or subconscious motivations of a rapist important in anything other than an abstract sense?

    joeyjoejoe

    I’ve never accepted that ‘rape is power, not sex,’ because I tend to see that young, attractive women tend to be raped more frequently than old, unattractive women. Furthermore, if it were about power: wouldn’t it be easier, and safer, to just sneak up on women and punch them in the nose?

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  7. I remember reading Brownmiller’s book just after it came out. Shortly before, I’d read a much more scholarly study of rape by a male academic. (It’s been a long time now. I can’t remember the details and I’ve got better things to do than research them now.) Anyway… As I was reading Brownmiller’s book I felt a kind of intellectual deja vu. All the concrete facts in the first three-quarters of her book seemed like a distorted version of something I’d already read. I eventually realized that all her solid documentation and even some organization of her material was drawn from the work of the academic I’d read earlier. She cited individuals references to his work but never really acknowledged that most of her book was an extended expropriation of his. In addition, she grossly distorted the results of his research to put a feminist spin on the findings. Much later, a historian informed me that the later chapters of Brownmiller’s book on rape in war were based on the same kind of misuse of expropriated and barely acknowledged male researchers.

    I ran into a situation resulting from a similar feminist misappropriation of scholarly research at a dinner party with some very prominent Harvard academics in the mid to late 1980s. I’d been doing some contract consulting on violent crimes against women and had read rather extensively in the literature. The seminal research in this area had been done by Murray A. Strauss and his work was the starting point for a bunch of feminists who expropriated, and often misinterpreted and/or misused bits of his research for their own purposes. I mentioned in passing that Strauss had found that women initiated about as many incidents of domestic violence as men. (Of course, as with any 110 lb. weakling who picks a fight with a far more muscular 200 lb. opponent, they were far more likely to end up in the hospital. Unless, of course, they had a weapon; but that’s another story.) One of the older faculty wives, an early instantiation of the SJW, took offense at this fact and refused to believe it even though as far as I could determine she’d read nothing in the field except article in Ms Mag, Psych Today and the like. This woman persisted in creating an ugly scene even after I explained my sources and caveats. I avoided a social meltdown only by backing off and suggesting we change the subject.. Ready access to the internet might have saved the day.

    The work done by these early feminist writers still pollutes the field today. In the past decade or so I wound up arguing with a young woman studying for an MSW who refused to accept the likelihood that not all men who committed rape were sociopathicaly violent enforcers for the patriarchy. She intended on going into rape counseling!

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  8. @Diversity Heretic
    Mass rapes in the aftermath of conquest are certainly an expression of power. Is that what is happening in Sweden and Germany right now? Are the migrants/refugees/invaders showing their new dominance by taking the conquered people's women? I think that this may be beyond ordinary criminality.

    I also think the lack of a heavy physical response by the locals probably confirms to them they are indeed conquerors. One would think that local German men would have gathered and pounded a few of these guys into ground. By not doing so they are probably going to invite more such attacks.

    A couple years ago some Mexican sailors tried to harass some Polish women on a Baltic beach. The local Poles did not take it lying down. This should have been the response in Germany.

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    • Replies: @Escher
    Western men (and those in other developed nations) have been emasculated by their shrill feminist teachers and co-citizens. This has ironical left these same women exposed to assaults and harassment by more aggressive and unashamedly masculine foreigners.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    The Mexican news report called them "hooligans". Not the sailors, of course.
    , @International Jew
    Turning churches into migrant housing definitely sends the wrong message:

    As news of the plan to house 50 refugees in the church and suspend Sunday services
     
    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0TF10820151126
    , @JEC

    I also think the lack of a heavy physical response by the locals probably confirms to them they are indeed conquerors. One would think that local German men would have gathered and pounded a few of these guys into ground. By not doing so they are probably going to invite more such attacks.
     
    Lack of a heavy physical response by the locals probably indicates the cultural emasculation of German men by cradle to grave 'liberal' indoctrination.
    , @BB753
    There are still some Germans with enough balls to kick refugee ass. Working class Germans are only second to English lads in street brawls.
    But they're smart enough not to mess with foreigners, because hate laws are draconian on natives and they know the police would come down on them very hard. And they might face long prison terms.
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  9. I didn’t realize that claim was so old.

    Yes obviously there is a power aspect to any rape. One does not rape unless one wants to establish dominance over the victim (I’m talking rape of the “don’t scream bitch or I’ll kill you” variety not the “this girl is pretty drunk but my dick is hard so whatevs” kind.)

    But I think basically any rape where the rapist’s genitalia are involved necessarily involves a sexual motive too. Sex and power are obviously not mutually exclusive motives. Then again, rational thinking and feminism are largely mutually exclusive so I’m not surprised this meme has survived so long.

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  10. Salon is ignoring this story completely. Instead they published an essay about how women scientists are “forced to endure” a culture of sexual harassment and another one about the health benefits of drinking urine.

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    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Salon is ignoring this story completely.

     

    I noticed this too. I scan through the headlines at Salon a couple times a week to track how the hard left is spinning the latest news. Usually they manage to come up with something for even the most leftist-unfriendly events, but there's not a peep on this one.

    Slate had a very brief story, really only an extended headline and lede, and by yesterday it was buried at the very bottom of their extensive home page. I had to control-F to find it! And it seems to be gone today.

    The lefties seem genuinely nonplussed by this story. It's almost impossible to spin back into blame for the West, although I did notice Breitbart had located a few desultory attempts to do so.
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  11. “It’s part and parcel of increasing violence rather than sex, partly because the criminal population is rising and becoming more adventurous.”

    Violent crime is decreasing.

    https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/violent-crime/violent-crime-topic-page/violentcrimemain_final

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    • Replies: @CJ
    She was giving an interview in 1975. Crime tripled between 1963 and 1970. It was still rising through most of the 1970s.
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  12. @iSteveFan
    I also think the lack of a heavy physical response by the locals probably confirms to them they are indeed conquerors. One would think that local German men would have gathered and pounded a few of these guys into ground. By not doing so they are probably going to invite more such attacks.

    A couple years ago some Mexican sailors tried to harass some Polish women on a Baltic beach. The local Poles did not take it lying down. This should have been the response in Germany.

    Western men (and those in other developed nations) have been emasculated by their shrill feminist teachers and co-citizens. This has ironical left these same women exposed to assaults and harassment by more aggressive and unashamedly masculine foreigners.

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  13. You’ve linked to that article before and I’ve been intrigued by it every time. Why would she ever have had no sympathy for rape victims? What about being a NY liberal in the 60′s would have given her that perspective?

    Also, keeping the death penalty for rape doesn’t have to make a jury not convict, it just means a prosecutor is rarely going to go for that penalty. Only in the most heinous of cases.

    Potiphar’s wife isn’t the main rape story of the O.T. There’s plenty of horrific stories in there. Look up the Levite’s concubine for a particularly gruesome tale. Or Solomon’s offspring of multiple wives.

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    • Replies: @anon

    What about being a NY liberal in the 60′s would have given her that perspective?
     
    Hollywood films like to catch a mockingbird, heat of the night etc.
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  14. ‘Rape Is a Crime Not of Lust, but Power,’ Argues Susan Brownmiller

    Utter garbage. Rape is done because of lust and power and in many cases sadism. Some cases black revenge on white people and white women in general like Eldridge Cleaver bragged about.
    Rest of the article (read it all at the source) is very good. But no mention of date rape and campus rape. Brownmiller was discussing real rape exclusively. And was not afraid to say that it was-1975- still is largely black men doing it to white women.
    She could school the spoiled little turd feminists we have on today’s college campuses with their deranged slut walks and hatred of white frat boys. What a crop of phonies!

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  15. If rape is mainly about power, it is hard to explain why people tend to stick so rigidly to victims that match their sexual preference. I mean why do hetero men, even extremely violent criminals, so rarely rape people of the same sex out of revenge or whatever. It does happen, but not that much. And it would be particularly humiliating. Instead, they just beat you or torture you or cut off a limb or something. It’s like people tend to only use rape when they want to humiliate or overpower people they are already sexually attracted to.

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    • Agree: Stephen R. Diamond
    • Replies: @anon
    Agree, I don't think rape is universally one thing or the other.

    I think it's partly r-type reproductive behavior (see Congo) and partly a specific form of violence as you say - a substitute for beating / killing when the victim is within the attacker's range of sexual preference. In an area being cleansed the boys are stabbed the girls are raped.

    The balance between the two types varies between populations.
    , @Jim Christian
    Power, Shmower, I concur. A rapist has an appetite and his victim is the cure. And they never select fat chicks. The power theory was B/S and probably hurt the cause of women raped. Rape is a man stealing the sexuality of his victim for his own pleasure, to get a nut, to relieve his sexual tension against the woman's will. That's all it is. It is an exercise of power for sure, but the object is orgasm. Brownmiller was badly wrong.
    , @keypusher
    Yes, exactly. Brownmiller is responsible for a million brain-dead declarations that "rape isn't about sex, it's about power."
    , @Anonymous
    There is a power dynamic involved in prison rape. It's often whites being victimized by blacks.
    , @Jonathan Mason

    If rape is mainly about power, it is hard to explain why people tend to stick so rigidly to victims that match their sexual preference.
     
    Well, exactly. I worked for a couple of years in a treatment center for convicted sexual predators, and I can tell you that most of those guys thought of nothing but sex. In wartime rape and pillage may well be about power, but a lot of ordinary rapists are just in it for the sex.
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  16. @iSteveFan
    I also think the lack of a heavy physical response by the locals probably confirms to them they are indeed conquerors. One would think that local German men would have gathered and pounded a few of these guys into ground. By not doing so they are probably going to invite more such attacks.

    A couple years ago some Mexican sailors tried to harass some Polish women on a Baltic beach. The local Poles did not take it lying down. This should have been the response in Germany.

    The Mexican news report called them “hooligans”. Not the sailors, of course.

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    • Replies: @iSteveFan
    That is good. Though the Mexicans meant it as an insult it indicates they know the Poles won't be pushed around. It would be good if the muslim migrants considered the Germans and other Europeans hooligans instead of sheep. Maybe they wouldn't feel as confident to run roughshod all over the place. Generally if you think of the locals as hooligans, gangbangers or rednecks you are less likely to invade their space and misbehave. You might find it entertaining calling them those names, but you are also aware they will beat you up if you get caught monkeying around on their turf.
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  17. @iSteveFan
    I also think the lack of a heavy physical response by the locals probably confirms to them they are indeed conquerors. One would think that local German men would have gathered and pounded a few of these guys into ground. By not doing so they are probably going to invite more such attacks.

    A couple years ago some Mexican sailors tried to harass some Polish women on a Baltic beach. The local Poles did not take it lying down. This should have been the response in Germany.

    Turning churches into migrant housing definitely sends the wrong message:

    As news of the plan to house 50 refugees in the church and suspend Sunday services

    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0TF10820151126

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    • Replies: @iSteveFan
    In more ways than one. Given the highly religious nature of the migrants, handing over places of worship of their number one historical religious enemy is probably not wise.
    , @Thea
    A crazy thought, I know, but could Merkel be a secret convert?
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  18. @iSteveFan
    I also think the lack of a heavy physical response by the locals probably confirms to them they are indeed conquerors. One would think that local German men would have gathered and pounded a few of these guys into ground. By not doing so they are probably going to invite more such attacks.

    A couple years ago some Mexican sailors tried to harass some Polish women on a Baltic beach. The local Poles did not take it lying down. This should have been the response in Germany.

    I also think the lack of a heavy physical response by the locals probably confirms to them they are indeed conquerors. One would think that local German men would have gathered and pounded a few of these guys into ground. By not doing so they are probably going to invite more such attacks.

    Lack of a heavy physical response by the locals probably indicates the cultural emasculation of German men by cradle to grave ‘liberal’ indoctrination.

    Read More
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  19. @iSteveFan
    I also think the lack of a heavy physical response by the locals probably confirms to them they are indeed conquerors. One would think that local German men would have gathered and pounded a few of these guys into ground. By not doing so they are probably going to invite more such attacks.

    A couple years ago some Mexican sailors tried to harass some Polish women on a Baltic beach. The local Poles did not take it lying down. This should have been the response in Germany.

    There are still some Germans with enough balls to kick refugee ass. Working class Germans are only second to English lads in street brawls.
    But they’re smart enough not to mess with foreigners, because hate laws are draconian on natives and they know the police would come down on them very hard. And they might face long prison terms.

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  20. @International Jew
    Turning churches into migrant housing definitely sends the wrong message:

    As news of the plan to house 50 refugees in the church and suspend Sunday services
     
    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0TF10820151126

    In more ways than one. Given the highly religious nature of the migrants, handing over places of worship of their number one historical religious enemy is probably not wise.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    iSteveFan, nice point or as a Catholic would say; Bingo
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  21. @Reg Cæsar
    The Mexican news report called them "hooligans". Not the sailors, of course.

    That is good. Though the Mexicans meant it as an insult it indicates they know the Poles won’t be pushed around. It would be good if the muslim migrants considered the Germans and other Europeans hooligans instead of sheep. Maybe they wouldn’t feel as confident to run roughshod all over the place. Generally if you think of the locals as hooligans, gangbangers or rednecks you are less likely to invade their space and misbehave. You might find it entertaining calling them those names, but you are also aware they will beat you up if you get caught monkeying around on their turf.

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  22. I think it would be more accurate to say that multi-person rape can have political consequences, even if the assailants involved don’t intend or care about them.

    Interestingly, the cultural backlash against the practice of accusing minorities of sexual crimes as an excuse to persecute them seems to be preventing societies from responding to actual sexual crimes committed by minorities.

    I’ve been trying to understand how goodthink arises and is adopted by goodthinkers, and one vector seems to be “the boy who cried wolf”. It’s sort of the opposite of whitewashing – blackwashing, perhaps?

    In any case, it seems WWII did far more damage than was even realized at the time, since the shadow of the Axis Powers’ ideology discredited a lot of ideas that are turning out to be valid and important. European societies have taught that viewing minorities as a threat is badwrong, that specific evidence of a minority threat is hatefact, that even considering genetic inheritance as relevant is an obscenity.

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  23. I think motive for rape is quite varied. Sometimes it is to defile and degrade a woman, in other instances it is a low status male’s effort to have sex. Some rapists select or stalk a particular woman or body type and, for reasons completely inexplicable to me, more than a few will rape an elderly woman!

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  24. I still don’t buy it. I think it’s a lot of rationalizing by both women and by politically-minded men after the fact. Basically, the women can’t understand the true, savage, hard nature of the male sex drive, especially when excited by violence, while the latter are either trying to rationalize their own rapes as political, and therefore not base or savage (like the Black Panther did), or are trying to get in with the women (Bill Clinton). The Duke of Marlborough effect is very, very real, both from personal experience and from viewing it in others.

    For the female rationalization, it’s a bit like when women try to claim men have Peter Pan syndrome when they refuse to commit or have mommy issues when they choose big-breasted women or are “intimidated” by “strong women” when they refuse to date domineering, bossy, unfeminine, unmotherly women. Basically, women will make any kind of shit up to protect their egos.

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  25. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The truth is this:
    Merkel handed over the ancient nation of Germany – a nation that countless generations of blood Germans had to fight for, build up from the bare earth, and work damned hard for, over on a plate, to a bunch of complete outsiders who have absolutely no connection whatsoever with the fatherland, have not shed a single drop of blood, sweat or tears for it, and who couldn’t give, literally, a fuck for it. What’s more those cheeky, brazen bastards of liars get big, fat, German taxpayer goodies for merely having the damned insolent effrontery of showing up and claiming Germany as ‘rightfully, theirs.
    And Merkel and The Economist not only agree, but will fight, fight, fight and fight hard – against ethnic whites – to defend that damned cheek.

    On that note, claiming a nation’s women ‘as your own’ after being given the country on a plate, is an insignificant and trifling matter.

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  26. “Her argument that rape and political power are correlated can be overblown, but I find it useful.”

    How does that play out in the US or UK, where black people are over-represented as offenders for their share of the population. But I guess their political leaders also have influence beyond their (blacks) population share.

    I presume you’ve read Steven Pinker’s ‘Hot Buttons’ chapter of the Blank Slate.

    “I believe that the rape-is-not-about-sex doctrine will go down in history as an example of extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds. It is preposterous on the face of it, does not deserve its sanctity, is contradicted by a mass of evidence, and is getting in the way of the only morally relevant goal surrounding rape, the effort to stamp it out.
    Think about it. First obvious fact: Men often want to have sex with women who don’t want to have sex with them. They use every tactic that one human being uses to affect the behavior of another: wooing, seducing, flattering, deceiving, sulking, and paying. Second obvious fact: Some men use violence to get what they want, indifferent to the suffering they cause. Men have been known to kidnap children for ransom (sometimes sending their parents an ear or finger to show they mean business), blind the victim of a mugging so the victim can’t identify them in court, shoot out the kneecaps of an associate as punishment for ratting to the police or invading their territory, and kill a stranger for his brand-name athletic footwear. It would be an extraordinary fact, contradicting everything else we know about people, if some men didn’t use violence to get sex.
    Let’s also apply common sense to the doctrine that men rape to further the interests of their gender. A rapist always risks injury at the hands of the woman defending herself. In a traditional society, he risks torture, mutilation, and death at the hands of her relatives. In a modern society, he risks a long prison term. Are rapists really assuming these risks as an altruistic sacrifice to benefit the billions of strangers that make up the male gender? The idea becomes even less credible when we remember that rapists tend to be losers and nobodies, while presumably the main beneficiaries of the patriarchy are the rich and powerful. Men do sacrifice themselves for the greater good in wartime, of course, but they are either conscripted against their will or promised public adulation when their exploits are made public. But rapists usually commit their acts in private and try to keep them secret. And in most times and places, a man who rapes a woman in his community is treated as scum. The idea that all men are engaged in brutal warfare against all women clashes with the elementary fact that men have mothers, daughters, sisters, and wives, whom they care for more than they care for most other men. To put the same point in biological terms, every person’s genes are carried in the bodies of other people, half of whom are of the opposite sex.”

    But … when you’re an invading army, whether in Cologne in 2015 or Berlin in 1945, “rapists usually commit their acts in private and try to keep them secret” and “a man who rapes a woman in his community is treated as scum” really don’t apply. Similarly in Rotherham and many other English towns, girls were passed round brothers, uncles, in-laws – not much secrecy there.

    Brownmuller’s “rape is about power” is MOST true when the victims don’t qualify as ‘one of us’.

    PS – the Guardian finally published an op-ed on Cologne, after a week when it’s devoted three pieces to the sexist evil of a (black) cricketer asking the pretty interviewer out to dinner live on air (‘Don’t blush’). A great torrent of BTL abuse followed.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve

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    • Replies: @Tex
    It's amazing (or perhaps not) that Hinsliff is totally befuddled about the motivation. If it was about sex, why take women's wallets or phones? Rape is about power, right?

    The New Year’s Eve attacks are shocking at least partly because they’re confusing. If they were primarily sexually motivated, done for kicks or fuelled by assumptions about western women’s sexual availability, then surely there would be no reason to steal the victims’ valuables. Rapists seek power, not money.
     
    She's too dim to figure out EVERYTHING is about power. A thug takes what he wants, whether it's a smartphone, or copping a feel. The thug's permanent question is "What you gonna do about?"

    One thing Hinsliff is dead certain on, stopping immigration is not an answer. It's so textbook Guardian, the Narrative vanishing up its own ass.
    , @Jonathan Mason

    Similarly in Rotherham and many other English towns, girls were passed round brothers, uncles, in-laws – not much secrecy there.
     
    Well, yeah, but my understanding was that most of these girls were teen prostitutes, and the rapes were technical in the sense that they were underage, rather than forcible, or for money or drugs. That doesn't make what happened right--the guys were sleazebags--but it is a different kind of rape.
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  27. anon • Disclaimer says:

    In the context of mass migration (including internal mass migration) rape is partly a weapon of ethnic cleansing.

    In the UK the political class were making a big thing about this aspect

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2948162/Friends-reunited-Angelina-Jolie-William-Hague-join-forces-launch-centre-targeting-abuse-women-war.html

    but their enthusiasm faded as the scale of child-rape in the regions of the UK with the most white flight became increasingly apparent.

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  28. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Thursday
    If rape is mainly about power, it is hard to explain why people tend to stick so rigidly to victims that match their sexual preference. I mean why do hetero men, even extremely violent criminals, so rarely rape people of the same sex out of revenge or whatever. It does happen, but not that much. And it would be particularly humiliating. Instead, they just beat you or torture you or cut off a limb or something. It's like people tend to only use rape when they want to humiliate or overpower people they are already sexually attracted to.

    Agree, I don’t think rape is universally one thing or the other.

    I think it’s partly r-type reproductive behavior (see Congo) and partly a specific form of violence as you say – a substitute for beating / killing when the victim is within the attacker’s range of sexual preference. In an area being cleansed the boys are stabbed the girls are raped.

    The balance between the two types varies between populations.

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  29. @iSteveFan
    In more ways than one. Given the highly religious nature of the migrants, handing over places of worship of their number one historical religious enemy is probably not wise.

    iSteveFan, nice point or as a Catholic would say; Bingo

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  30. I remember a comedian, forgot who, said that rape is a crime, like robbing a liquor store… and then fucking it.

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  31. One perspective on Brownmiller is that in 1975 she represented the far left edge of the right wing backlash against the crime wave that got going around 1964.

    No good was ever produced by right-wing backlashes – Brownmiller included.

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  32. The rape/sex/power thing doesn’t have clear dividing lines. A lot of consensual sex is “about power” too – ego-boosting at the expense of the sexual partner, etc. There’s a name for this.

    Wherever you have thousands of young soldiers cooped up in an all-male environment for months on end, there will be rapes when they’re let loose, against their own side as well as the enemy’s. It’s a matter of opportunity, and of weighing the possible consequences of a particular crime. Presumably the mass rape of German women by Soviet troops at the end of WWII was because they were less likely to be punished for raping the enemy.

    You can judge a book by the influence it’s had as much as by its intended message. Brownmiller’s Against Our Will had a great influence on the work of people like Andrea Dworkin and others like her. The most famous sentence from the book, “[rape] is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” has been quoted approvingly by feminists ever since. I don’t know if Brownmiller objected to any of this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    Dworkin was so hideously ugly that, when she claimed a man raped her at a hotel, even her fellow feminists didn't believe her. Most men wouldn't have banged her if she'd been the last woman on earth.
    , @anon

    Presumably the mass rape of German women by Soviet troops at the end of WWII was because they were less likely to be punished for raping the enemy.
     
    They were encouraged by Red Army propagandists.
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  33. @Anonymous Nephew
    "Her argument that rape and political power are correlated can be overblown, but I find it useful."

    How does that play out in the US or UK, where black people are over-represented as offenders for their share of the population. But I guess their political leaders also have influence beyond their (blacks) population share.

    I presume you've read Steven Pinker's 'Hot Buttons' chapter of the Blank Slate.


    "I believe that the rape-is-not-about-sex doctrine will go down in history as an example of extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds. It is preposterous on the face of it, does not deserve its sanctity, is contradicted by a mass of evidence, and is getting in the way of the only morally relevant goal surrounding rape, the effort to stamp it out.
    Think about it. First obvious fact: Men often want to have sex with women who don't want to have sex with them. They use every tactic that one human being uses to affect the behavior of another: wooing, seducing, flattering, deceiving, sulking, and paying. Second obvious fact: Some men use violence to get what they want, indifferent to the suffering they cause. Men have been known to kidnap children for ransom (sometimes sending their parents an ear or finger to show they mean business), blind the victim of a mugging so the victim can't identify them in court, shoot out the kneecaps of an associate as punishment for ratting to the police or invading their territory, and kill a stranger for his brand-name athletic footwear. It would be an extraordinary fact, contradicting everything else we know about people, if some men didn't use violence to get sex.
    Let's also apply common sense to the doctrine that men rape to further the interests of their gender. A rapist always risks injury at the hands of the woman defending herself. In a traditional society, he risks torture, mutilation, and death at the hands of her relatives. In a modern society, he risks a long prison term. Are rapists really assuming these risks as an altruistic sacrifice to benefit the billions of strangers that make up the male gender? The idea becomes even less credible when we remember that rapists tend to be losers and nobodies, while presumably the main beneficiaries of the patriarchy are the rich and powerful. Men do sacrifice themselves for the greater good in wartime, of course, but they are either conscripted against their will or promised public adulation when their exploits are made public. But rapists usually commit their acts in private and try to keep them secret. And in most times and places, a man who rapes a woman in his community is treated as scum. The idea that all men are engaged in brutal warfare against all women clashes with the elementary fact that men have mothers, daughters, sisters, and wives, whom they care for more than they care for most other men. To put the same point in biological terms, every person's genes are carried in the bodies of other people, half of whom are of the opposite sex."
     
    But ... when you're an invading army, whether in Cologne in 2015 or Berlin in 1945, "rapists usually commit their acts in private and try to keep them secret" and "a man who rapes a woman in his community is treated as scum" really don't apply. Similarly in Rotherham and many other English towns, girls were passed round brothers, uncles, in-laws - not much secrecy there.

    Brownmuller's "rape is about power" is MOST true when the victims don't qualify as 'one of us'.


    PS - the Guardian finally published an op-ed on Cologne, after a week when it's devoted three pieces to the sexist evil of a (black) cricketer asking the pretty interviewer out to dinner live on air ('Don't blush'). A great torrent of BTL abuse followed.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve

    It’s amazing (or perhaps not) that Hinsliff is totally befuddled about the motivation. If it was about sex, why take women’s wallets or phones? Rape is about power, right?

    The New Year’s Eve attacks are shocking at least partly because they’re confusing. If they were primarily sexually motivated, done for kicks or fuelled by assumptions about western women’s sexual availability, then surely there would be no reason to steal the victims’ valuables. Rapists seek power, not money.

    She’s too dim to figure out EVERYTHING is about power. A thug takes what he wants, whether it’s a smartphone, or copping a feel. The thug’s permanent question is “What you gonna do about?”

    One thing Hinsliff is dead certain on, stopping immigration is not an answer. It’s so textbook Guardian, the Narrative vanishing up its own ass.

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  34. @Thursday
    If rape is mainly about power, it is hard to explain why people tend to stick so rigidly to victims that match their sexual preference. I mean why do hetero men, even extremely violent criminals, so rarely rape people of the same sex out of revenge or whatever. It does happen, but not that much. And it would be particularly humiliating. Instead, they just beat you or torture you or cut off a limb or something. It's like people tend to only use rape when they want to humiliate or overpower people they are already sexually attracted to.

    Power, Shmower, I concur. A rapist has an appetite and his victim is the cure. And they never select fat chicks. The power theory was B/S and probably hurt the cause of women raped. Rape is a man stealing the sexuality of his victim for his own pleasure, to get a nut, to relieve his sexual tension against the woman’s will. That’s all it is. It is an exercise of power for sure, but the object is orgasm. Brownmiller was badly wrong.

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    • Replies: @anon

    And they never select fat chicks.
     
    Some do, and children and very elderly and boys and goats.

    There's the primitive r-type version and the less primitive K-type version - with the complication that K-type men are more r-type when
    - young
    - drunk
    - the woman is from an out-group
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  35. @Thursday
    If rape is mainly about power, it is hard to explain why people tend to stick so rigidly to victims that match their sexual preference. I mean why do hetero men, even extremely violent criminals, so rarely rape people of the same sex out of revenge or whatever. It does happen, but not that much. And it would be particularly humiliating. Instead, they just beat you or torture you or cut off a limb or something. It's like people tend to only use rape when they want to humiliate or overpower people they are already sexually attracted to.

    Yes, exactly. Brownmiller is responsible for a million brain-dead declarations that “rape isn’t about sex, it’s about power.”

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  36. Robbery is about power, too, but without covetousness it wouldn’t happen. Power in this case simply means you can do what you want regardless of what others think of it. If someone wants to have sex but can’t find a willing partner and he has no scruples, he may rape if it is within his power.

    This is from an individual perspective. If we’re talking about mass rape perpetrated on a particular people it may well be an expression of power; i.e. the elites demonstrating that they can and will subject their inferiors to mass rape at the hands of their proxies. This sort of thing happens all the time in the Muslim world, so I’m sure Merkel’s brand new Islamic army was simply doing what they thought was their right and expected of them.

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  37. @Rob McX
    The rape/sex/power thing doesn't have clear dividing lines. A lot of consensual sex is "about power" too - ego-boosting at the expense of the sexual partner, etc. There's a name for this.

    Wherever you have thousands of young soldiers cooped up in an all-male environment for months on end, there will be rapes when they're let loose, against their own side as well as the enemy's. It's a matter of opportunity, and of weighing the possible consequences of a particular crime. Presumably the mass rape of German women by Soviet troops at the end of WWII was because they were less likely to be punished for raping the enemy.

    You can judge a book by the influence it's had as much as by its intended message. Brownmiller's Against Our Will had a great influence on the work of people like Andrea Dworkin and others like her. The most famous sentence from the book, "[rape] is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear" has been quoted approvingly by feminists ever since. I don't know if Brownmiller objected to any of this.

    Dworkin was so hideously ugly that, when she claimed a man raped her at a hotel, even her fellow feminists didn’t believe her. Most men wouldn’t have banged her if she’d been the last woman on earth.

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  38. @International Jew
    Turning churches into migrant housing definitely sends the wrong message:

    As news of the plan to house 50 refugees in the church and suspend Sunday services
     
    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0TF10820151126

    A crazy thought, I know, but could Merkel be a secret convert?

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    • Replies: @International Jew
    To Judaism?
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  39. consciousness-raising group

    When was the last time that anyone here has heard this term used in contemporary conversation? This seems to have fallen out of use in leftist circles just like Transnational Corporation which I used to hear exclusively amongst Leftist acquaintances while the rest of the normal world used Multinational Corporation but even that has fallen out of use because most F500 are MNC now.

    Maybe BLM should have a consciousness raising session during a Hillary event?

    ‘Rape Is a Crime Not of Lust, but Power,’ Argues Susan Brownmiller

    That rests my mind for I was worried about German women being raped but since Muslim migrants are the least powerful group in German society I’m reassured to learn that the relatively powerful white German women didn’t suffer rape at the hands of the migrants.

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  40. @Flemur
    "It’s part and parcel of increasing violence rather than sex, partly because the criminal population is rising and becoming more adventurous."

    Violent crime is decreasing.
    https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/violent-crime/violent-crime-topic-page/violentcrimemain_final

    She was giving an interview in 1975. Crime tripled between 1963 and 1970. It was still rising through most of the 1970s.

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  41. @Formerly CARealist
    You've linked to that article before and I've been intrigued by it every time. Why would she ever have had no sympathy for rape victims? What about being a NY liberal in the 60's would have given her that perspective?

    Also, keeping the death penalty for rape doesn't have to make a jury not convict, it just means a prosecutor is rarely going to go for that penalty. Only in the most heinous of cases.

    Potiphar's wife isn't the main rape story of the O.T. There's plenty of horrific stories in there. Look up the Levite's concubine for a particularly gruesome tale. Or Solomon's offspring of multiple wives.

    What about being a NY liberal in the 60′s would have given her that perspective?

    Hollywood films like to catch a mockingbird, heat of the night etc.

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  42. @Rob McX
    The rape/sex/power thing doesn't have clear dividing lines. A lot of consensual sex is "about power" too - ego-boosting at the expense of the sexual partner, etc. There's a name for this.

    Wherever you have thousands of young soldiers cooped up in an all-male environment for months on end, there will be rapes when they're let loose, against their own side as well as the enemy's. It's a matter of opportunity, and of weighing the possible consequences of a particular crime. Presumably the mass rape of German women by Soviet troops at the end of WWII was because they were less likely to be punished for raping the enemy.

    You can judge a book by the influence it's had as much as by its intended message. Brownmiller's Against Our Will had a great influence on the work of people like Andrea Dworkin and others like her. The most famous sentence from the book, "[rape] is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear" has been quoted approvingly by feminists ever since. I don't know if Brownmiller objected to any of this.

    Presumably the mass rape of German women by Soviet troops at the end of WWII was because they were less likely to be punished for raping the enemy.

    They were encouraged by Red Army propagandists.

    Read More
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  43. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Christian
    Power, Shmower, I concur. A rapist has an appetite and his victim is the cure. And they never select fat chicks. The power theory was B/S and probably hurt the cause of women raped. Rape is a man stealing the sexuality of his victim for his own pleasure, to get a nut, to relieve his sexual tension against the woman's will. That's all it is. It is an exercise of power for sure, but the object is orgasm. Brownmiller was badly wrong.

    And they never select fat chicks.

    Some do, and children and very elderly and boys and goats.

    There’s the primitive r-type version and the less primitive K-type version – with the complication that K-type men are more r-type when
    - young
    - drunk
    - the woman is from an out-group

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    Oh boy! There's an alphabetical hierarchy of rapists? I remember the K-Car and the R-Type Acura, is it something like that? I'm kidding, Anon.

    Clearly the young and the drunk are a less selective lot across the board. And they'll operate in the groups they find themselves in the midst of, out-group or not depending on the society and the penalties imposed upon those that rape. I suspect these sorts of fellows would demonstrate considerably better behavior toward the women in say, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Now that I think of it however, Iran and Saudi would never allow African Dindu into their society to begin with.

    There is that. About that alphabetical hierarchy of rapists, what is that? Sociological, or psychological, or a anthropological measure of sexual behavior? I'm like green glass, the light shines through, eventually.
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  44. @Thursday
    If rape is mainly about power, it is hard to explain why people tend to stick so rigidly to victims that match their sexual preference. I mean why do hetero men, even extremely violent criminals, so rarely rape people of the same sex out of revenge or whatever. It does happen, but not that much. And it would be particularly humiliating. Instead, they just beat you or torture you or cut off a limb or something. It's like people tend to only use rape when they want to humiliate or overpower people they are already sexually attracted to.

    There is a power dynamic involved in prison rape. It’s often whites being victimized by blacks.

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  45. @Thursday
    If rape is mainly about power, it is hard to explain why people tend to stick so rigidly to victims that match their sexual preference. I mean why do hetero men, even extremely violent criminals, so rarely rape people of the same sex out of revenge or whatever. It does happen, but not that much. And it would be particularly humiliating. Instead, they just beat you or torture you or cut off a limb or something. It's like people tend to only use rape when they want to humiliate or overpower people they are already sexually attracted to.

    If rape is mainly about power, it is hard to explain why people tend to stick so rigidly to victims that match their sexual preference.

    Well, exactly. I worked for a couple of years in a treatment center for convicted sexual predators, and I can tell you that most of those guys thought of nothing but sex. In wartime rape and pillage may well be about power, but a lot of ordinary rapists are just in it for the sex.

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  46. @Anonymous Nephew
    "Her argument that rape and political power are correlated can be overblown, but I find it useful."

    How does that play out in the US or UK, where black people are over-represented as offenders for their share of the population. But I guess their political leaders also have influence beyond their (blacks) population share.

    I presume you've read Steven Pinker's 'Hot Buttons' chapter of the Blank Slate.


    "I believe that the rape-is-not-about-sex doctrine will go down in history as an example of extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds. It is preposterous on the face of it, does not deserve its sanctity, is contradicted by a mass of evidence, and is getting in the way of the only morally relevant goal surrounding rape, the effort to stamp it out.
    Think about it. First obvious fact: Men often want to have sex with women who don't want to have sex with them. They use every tactic that one human being uses to affect the behavior of another: wooing, seducing, flattering, deceiving, sulking, and paying. Second obvious fact: Some men use violence to get what they want, indifferent to the suffering they cause. Men have been known to kidnap children for ransom (sometimes sending their parents an ear or finger to show they mean business), blind the victim of a mugging so the victim can't identify them in court, shoot out the kneecaps of an associate as punishment for ratting to the police or invading their territory, and kill a stranger for his brand-name athletic footwear. It would be an extraordinary fact, contradicting everything else we know about people, if some men didn't use violence to get sex.
    Let's also apply common sense to the doctrine that men rape to further the interests of their gender. A rapist always risks injury at the hands of the woman defending herself. In a traditional society, he risks torture, mutilation, and death at the hands of her relatives. In a modern society, he risks a long prison term. Are rapists really assuming these risks as an altruistic sacrifice to benefit the billions of strangers that make up the male gender? The idea becomes even less credible when we remember that rapists tend to be losers and nobodies, while presumably the main beneficiaries of the patriarchy are the rich and powerful. Men do sacrifice themselves for the greater good in wartime, of course, but they are either conscripted against their will or promised public adulation when their exploits are made public. But rapists usually commit their acts in private and try to keep them secret. And in most times and places, a man who rapes a woman in his community is treated as scum. The idea that all men are engaged in brutal warfare against all women clashes with the elementary fact that men have mothers, daughters, sisters, and wives, whom they care for more than they care for most other men. To put the same point in biological terms, every person's genes are carried in the bodies of other people, half of whom are of the opposite sex."
     
    But ... when you're an invading army, whether in Cologne in 2015 or Berlin in 1945, "rapists usually commit their acts in private and try to keep them secret" and "a man who rapes a woman in his community is treated as scum" really don't apply. Similarly in Rotherham and many other English towns, girls were passed round brothers, uncles, in-laws - not much secrecy there.

    Brownmuller's "rape is about power" is MOST true when the victims don't qualify as 'one of us'.


    PS - the Guardian finally published an op-ed on Cologne, after a week when it's devoted three pieces to the sexist evil of a (black) cricketer asking the pretty interviewer out to dinner live on air ('Don't blush'). A great torrent of BTL abuse followed.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve

    Similarly in Rotherham and many other English towns, girls were passed round brothers, uncles, in-laws – not much secrecy there.

    Well, yeah, but my understanding was that most of these girls were teen prostitutes, and the rapes were technical in the sense that they were underage, rather than forcible, or for money or drugs. That doesn’t make what happened right–the guys were sleazebags–but it is a different kind of rape.

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    • Replies: @anon

    my understanding was that most of these girls were teen prostitutes
     
    No. The original pattern was they were groomed at a very young age by one guy who they thought loved them. Once they were hooked the first guy then forced them to have sex with his relatives - this process generally involved multiple rapes and beatings until they accepted it. This went on on a small scale for a long time.

    Later, after Blair opened the UK's borders there was a huge influx of illegal workers creating a demand for cheap prostitution which led to the process above turning into an industry. It still worked the same way however just on a bigger scale: one guy getting a very young girl to believe he loved her and then once hooked, beaten and raped into becoming prostitutes.
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  47. @Elmer T. Jones
    Salon is ignoring this story completely. Instead they published an essay about how women scientists are "forced to endure" a culture of sexual harassment and another one about the health benefits of drinking urine.

    Salon is ignoring this story completely.

    I noticed this too. I scan through the headlines at Salon a couple times a week to track how the hard left is spinning the latest news. Usually they manage to come up with something for even the most leftist-unfriendly events, but there’s not a peep on this one.

    Slate had a very brief story, really only an extended headline and lede, and by yesterday it was buried at the very bottom of their extensive home page. I had to control-F to find it! And it seems to be gone today.

    The lefties seem genuinely nonplussed by this story. It’s almost impossible to spin back into blame for the West, although I did notice Breitbart had located a few desultory attempts to do so.

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    • Replies: @anon
    The media's behavior proves the point. There is no suicide. It's media manipulation herding western civilization over a cliff.
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  48. @anon

    And they never select fat chicks.
     
    Some do, and children and very elderly and boys and goats.

    There's the primitive r-type version and the less primitive K-type version - with the complication that K-type men are more r-type when
    - young
    - drunk
    - the woman is from an out-group

    Oh boy! There’s an alphabetical hierarchy of rapists? I remember the K-Car and the R-Type Acura, is it something like that? I’m kidding, Anon.

    Clearly the young and the drunk are a less selective lot across the board. And they’ll operate in the groups they find themselves in the midst of, out-group or not depending on the society and the penalties imposed upon those that rape. I suspect these sorts of fellows would demonstrate considerably better behavior toward the women in say, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Now that I think of it however, Iran and Saudi would never allow African Dindu into their society to begin with.

    There is that. About that alphabetical hierarchy of rapists, what is that? Sociological, or psychological, or a anthropological measure of sexual behavior? I’m like green glass, the light shines through, eventually.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    r/K relates to reproductive strategies

    r = have sex with everything that moves and then run

    K = marriage, focus on kids

    If r/K has any truth to it then there ought to be a spectrum when it comes to rape.
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  49. @Thea
    A crazy thought, I know, but could Merkel be a secret convert?

    To Judaism?

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  50. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Similarly in Rotherham and many other English towns, girls were passed round brothers, uncles, in-laws – not much secrecy there.
     
    Well, yeah, but my understanding was that most of these girls were teen prostitutes, and the rapes were technical in the sense that they were underage, rather than forcible, or for money or drugs. That doesn't make what happened right--the guys were sleazebags--but it is a different kind of rape.

    my understanding was that most of these girls were teen prostitutes

    No. The original pattern was they were groomed at a very young age by one guy who they thought loved them. Once they were hooked the first guy then forced them to have sex with his relatives – this process generally involved multiple rapes and beatings until they accepted it. This went on on a small scale for a long time.

    Later, after Blair opened the UK’s borders there was a huge influx of illegal workers creating a demand for cheap prostitution which led to the process above turning into an industry. It still worked the same way however just on a bigger scale: one guy getting a very young girl to believe he loved her and then once hooked, beaten and raped into becoming prostitutes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Another consequence of New Labour's open door immigration policy is an enormous increase in regular prostitution in the UK.
    This is entirely due to a massive influx of Brazilian, east European and third world women.
    If it wasn't for the influx, the regular prostitution in the UK would likely have withered away due to the revulsion indigenous women had for the lifestyle.

    Ironically, New Labour tried to ban prostitution by prosecuting proistitute's clients - another nutty 'feminist' Swedish idea.
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  51. @The Last Real Calvinist

    Salon is ignoring this story completely.

     

    I noticed this too. I scan through the headlines at Salon a couple times a week to track how the hard left is spinning the latest news. Usually they manage to come up with something for even the most leftist-unfriendly events, but there's not a peep on this one.

    Slate had a very brief story, really only an extended headline and lede, and by yesterday it was buried at the very bottom of their extensive home page. I had to control-F to find it! And it seems to be gone today.

    The lefties seem genuinely nonplussed by this story. It's almost impossible to spin back into blame for the West, although I did notice Breitbart had located a few desultory attempts to do so.

    The media’s behavior proves the point. There is no suicide. It’s media manipulation herding western civilization over a cliff.

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  52. @Jim Christian
    Oh boy! There's an alphabetical hierarchy of rapists? I remember the K-Car and the R-Type Acura, is it something like that? I'm kidding, Anon.

    Clearly the young and the drunk are a less selective lot across the board. And they'll operate in the groups they find themselves in the midst of, out-group or not depending on the society and the penalties imposed upon those that rape. I suspect these sorts of fellows would demonstrate considerably better behavior toward the women in say, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Now that I think of it however, Iran and Saudi would never allow African Dindu into their society to begin with.

    There is that. About that alphabetical hierarchy of rapists, what is that? Sociological, or psychological, or a anthropological measure of sexual behavior? I'm like green glass, the light shines through, eventually.

    r/K relates to reproductive strategies

    r = have sex with everything that moves and then run

    K = marriage, focus on kids

    If r/K has any truth to it then there ought to be a spectrum when it comes to rape.

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  53. R is not necessarily a reproductive strategy if the idea his to “have sex with everything that moves and then run”. Perhaps there ARE men that screw in order to spread the DNA, except in the modern world that must be tempered for child support purposes. There are other strategies, no? Not arguing, only presenting another thought.

    The Dindu that will mate (screw) specifically the fattest, nastiest White women, women no White man in his right mind would screw OR marry, let alone ever have any focus on her children, which strategy is that? Sex with everything? Avoidance of the equally fat-and-nasty-and-angry Dindu woman? The desire to stick it to a White woman, no matter how nasty simply because she is White? R/K doesn’t cover that strategy.

    To me, R covers rape in that it’s an opportunity, it’s sex, it’s anything that walks (assuming it’s to the sufficient taste of the rapist) with the necessary touch of deception to isolate and to initiate the violence to coerce the victim. I’d assume the gangster rapes conducted by Muslim Dindu from Syria are covered by “R” also. Opportunity, anything that is presented.

    You an anthropologist, Anon?

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    • Replies: @anon

    R is not necessarily a reproductive strategy if the idea his to “have sex with everything that moves and then run”.
     
    It is if the genes driving it make a person less choosy and it works 80% of the time. It might go too far and the other 20% of the time the person spends all their time with goats but as long as it mostly works it works.

    In the same way if pair-bonding was a K thing and someone lost their spouse and never got over it so they never reproduced then it wouldn't work as a reproductive strategy in that case - but only because it went too far, if it works 80% of the time it works.

    Perhaps there ARE men that screw in order to spread the DNA, except in the modern world that must be tempered for child support purposes.
     
    Apparently most of the girls taken by Boko Haram in Nigeria were sent back pregnant - so other people will look after the kids.

    You an anthropologist, Anon?
     
    amateur noticer
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  54. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    my understanding was that most of these girls were teen prostitutes
     
    No. The original pattern was they were groomed at a very young age by one guy who they thought loved them. Once they were hooked the first guy then forced them to have sex with his relatives - this process generally involved multiple rapes and beatings until they accepted it. This went on on a small scale for a long time.

    Later, after Blair opened the UK's borders there was a huge influx of illegal workers creating a demand for cheap prostitution which led to the process above turning into an industry. It still worked the same way however just on a bigger scale: one guy getting a very young girl to believe he loved her and then once hooked, beaten and raped into becoming prostitutes.

    Another consequence of New Labour’s open door immigration policy is an enormous increase in regular prostitution in the UK.
    This is entirely due to a massive influx of Brazilian, east European and third world women.
    If it wasn’t for the influx, the regular prostitution in the UK would likely have withered away due to the revulsion indigenous women had for the lifestyle.

    Ironically, New Labour tried to ban prostitution by prosecuting proistitute’s clients – another nutty ‘feminist’ Swedish idea.

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    • Replies: @anon
    yes - the huge increase in demand caused by the massive gender imbalance is mostly supplied by forced kids or trafficked women from outside.
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  55. As far as individual rapists go they tend to fall into three types – implusive/aggressive, mentally ill and socially inadequate, or calculating and sadistic.

    The vast majority tend to be impulsive/aggressive males from lower class backgrounds, while a small minority are sexual sadists or socially isolated males with mental health issues. Power issues probably are important to sexual sadists (and perhaps some mentally ill rapists) but most impulsive/aggressive rapists usually rape for sexual pleasure while under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

    Not sure how this sub-typing would play out in gang rape situations, but I’d imagine most males involved in gang rapes would tend to fall into the impulsive/aggressive sub-type.

    I’d also imagine that left-wing feminists probably base a lot of their rape as power theory on studies of atypical rapists such as middle class sadists.

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    spot on imo
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  56. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Christian
    R is not necessarily a reproductive strategy if the idea his to "have sex with everything that moves and then run". Perhaps there ARE men that screw in order to spread the DNA, except in the modern world that must be tempered for child support purposes. There are other strategies, no? Not arguing, only presenting another thought.

    The Dindu that will mate (screw) specifically the fattest, nastiest White women, women no White man in his right mind would screw OR marry, let alone ever have any focus on her children, which strategy is that? Sex with everything? Avoidance of the equally fat-and-nasty-and-angry Dindu woman? The desire to stick it to a White woman, no matter how nasty simply because she is White? R/K doesn't cover that strategy.

    To me, R covers rape in that it's an opportunity, it's sex, it's anything that walks (assuming it's to the sufficient taste of the rapist) with the necessary touch of deception to isolate and to initiate the violence to coerce the victim. I'd assume the gangster rapes conducted by Muslim Dindu from Syria are covered by "R" also. Opportunity, anything that is presented.

    You an anthropologist, Anon?

    R is not necessarily a reproductive strategy if the idea his to “have sex with everything that moves and then run”.

    It is if the genes driving it make a person less choosy and it works 80% of the time. It might go too far and the other 20% of the time the person spends all their time with goats but as long as it mostly works it works.

    In the same way if pair-bonding was a K thing and someone lost their spouse and never got over it so they never reproduced then it wouldn’t work as a reproductive strategy in that case – but only because it went too far, if it works 80% of the time it works.

    Perhaps there ARE men that screw in order to spread the DNA, except in the modern world that must be tempered for child support purposes.

    Apparently most of the girls taken by Boko Haram in Nigeria were sent back pregnant – so other people will look after the kids.

    You an anthropologist, Anon?

    amateur noticer

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  57. @Anonymous
    Another consequence of New Labour's open door immigration policy is an enormous increase in regular prostitution in the UK.
    This is entirely due to a massive influx of Brazilian, east European and third world women.
    If it wasn't for the influx, the regular prostitution in the UK would likely have withered away due to the revulsion indigenous women had for the lifestyle.

    Ironically, New Labour tried to ban prostitution by prosecuting proistitute's clients - another nutty 'feminist' Swedish idea.

    yes – the huge increase in demand caused by the massive gender imbalance is mostly supplied by forced kids or trafficked women from outside.

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  58. @unpc downunder
    As far as individual rapists go they tend to fall into three types - implusive/aggressive, mentally ill and socially inadequate, or calculating and sadistic.

    The vast majority tend to be impulsive/aggressive males from lower class backgrounds, while a small minority are sexual sadists or socially isolated males with mental health issues. Power issues probably are important to sexual sadists (and perhaps some mentally ill rapists) but most impulsive/aggressive rapists usually rape for sexual pleasure while under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

    Not sure how this sub-typing would play out in gang rape situations, but I'd imagine most males involved in gang rapes would tend to fall into the impulsive/aggressive sub-type.

    I'd also imagine that left-wing feminists probably base a lot of their rape as power theory on studies of atypical rapists such as middle class sadists.

    spot on imo

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