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From the Los Angeles Times:
8 killed, 18 injured in China land dispute
During World War II, Gao Shangpei fought Japanese soldiers invading his hometown. This week, the 85-year-old said he found himself taking up arms again as men wielding steel pipes and knives invaded his village over a land dispute, sparking clashes that left eight people dead and 18 others injured.
The incident in southwest Yunnan province appears to be one of the bloodiest confrontations in recent years between property developers and local villagers.
In a statement Wednesday, the local government said eight people were killed in Fuyou village
Fuyou is a great name.
when staff from a local project developer clashed with villagers. But locals said “thugs” hired by the developer stormed the village and tried to beat up residents who had vowed to protect their land till death.
“Around 2:30 p.m. [Tuesday], a group of over 1,000 thugs hired by the developer came to our village carrying steel pipes and long knives,” Gao said in a phone interview. “When we tried to stop them, they started to beat local villagers, including women and old people, indiscriminately.”
According to Gao, more than 2,000 of his fellow residents joined in the fray. After two villagers were killed, locals got so angry that they captured and killed some of the attackers, he said.
Four of the developers’ staff were burned alive by villagers.
As far as I can tell, the central government owns all the land in the People’s Republic of China, but the current tenants and the local governments assume they have various customary rights to it. So, every so often a property dispute arises. And then it’s: You get your lads together and we’ll get our lads together and then we’ll find out who holds proper title, Seven Samurai / Three Amigos-style.
If this were a movie, the sequel would be called Fuyou 2.
… When the armed men surrounded his village, Gao said, he didn’t bother to call the local police. “They breathe through the same nose with the developers. They’re useless,” he said.
The Chinese language is extremely old and it’s barnacled with these great idioms like “They breathe through the same nose.”
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Fuyou is a great name.
Sadly, it’s pronounced “foo yeoh”
Sadly, it's pronounced "foo yeoh"Replies: @Steve Sailer
Not to me it isn’t.
Feminists not calling this sexual harassment.
Black guys despise wussy white boys and make moves on white girls.
OT: if you want to see filmed (movie) violence like this, Korea’s ‘Dirty Carnival’ has scenes which are to cringe: a gang fight with baseball bats and sashimi knives. Apparently gunshots would alert the police, and the South Korean police hunt down gun crime with real vigor.
Somewhat OT or maybe not, Hotair is reporting that ICE is submitting for bids a contract for 34 million green cards. Presumably legalized after the election.
Game over. A lame duck Bush could not do what a Black president can do. Even or especially McCain or Romney would be preferable bc like Bush they’d be weaker. Too dependent on the base to openly defy them.
So 34 million times ten via chain migration equals 340 million non White Americans priveleged over White guys and voting themselves new privileges.
The elite won’t suffer bc their wealth is offshore assets like corporate shares or crony connections among the global highly mobile elite. Its the tiny amount of ordinary White guys assets that will be seized.
Just like in China.
Very droll. One of your best.
Sounds like eminent domain in the US, but in the US the people peasants peons don’t resist and the enforcers in China don’t have SWAT teams or even fire arms. So you have a fair fight.
Who owns all the land in California?
Here in the U.S., government takeover of property is called eminent domain. Which makes the score: Fu You 3, People 0.
Not being burdened by property rights over land is one of the biggest advantages China has. This way they gave use of the land to the most successful farmers during the beginning of industrialization and now they can give the land to other uses like building factories, highways and railroads much easier and cheaper than in the US or Europe. Of course this opens the door for corruption and abuse, but one must remember that the villagers themselves have no legal rights over the land that was confiscated from the landowner class by communists after 1948.
Fuyou stands out only because of violence. Conflicts over land rights are a constant occurrence in China.
From wikipedia : “An estimated 65 percent of the 180,000 annual “mass incidents” in China stem from grievances over forced land requisitions”
The U.S arms Chinese peasants with Ar15 rifles. Hilarity ensues.
It's all fun and games until somebody brings out an improvised flamethrower: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2oBSVW6JGk
Game over. A lame duck Bush could not do what a Black president can do. Even or especially McCain or Romney would be preferable bc like Bush they'd be weaker. Too dependent on the base to openly defy them.
So 34 million times ten via chain migration equals 340 million non White Americans priveleged over White guys and voting themselves new privileges.
The elite won't suffer bc their wealth is offshore assets like corporate shares or crony connections among the global highly mobile elite. Its the tiny amount of ordinary White guys assets that will be seized.
Just like in China.Replies: @Dave Pinsen
To the extent that their wealth is in US real estate or US dollars (or securities denominated in U.S. dollars) – which is to say, to a huge extent – it’s not in the interests of the world’s rich for America to become Mexico.
That’s not to say the interests of the rich are entirely aligned with those of the average American, but there is a bit more alignment than our comments here sometimes suggest. Even on immigration, I think there’s a point where Chinese immigrants will say it’s time to shut the door.
People who would like an interesting perspective on China should read a selection of the posts about China on creditbubblestocks.com, where the focus is generally on China being a communist dictatorship and the resulting misallocation of capital. Here is a good example of the misallocation of capital genre: Welcome to Ordos, the World’s Largest Ghost City.
Fuyou stands out only because of violence. Conflicts over land rights are a constant occurrence in China.
From wikipedia : "An estimated 65 percent of the 180,000 annual "mass incidents" in China stem from grievances over forced land requisitions"Replies: @Anonymous, @Bill, @Retired, @Twinkie
“An estimated 65 percent of the 180,000 annual “mass incidents” in China stem from grievances over forced land requisitions”
The U.S arms Chinese peasants with Ar15 rifles. Hilarity ensues.
We’ve had our own battles with “the man” here in the good ole USA. In the late 19th and early 20th century, ownership of 2/3 of the land in the state of West Virginia was transferred from small farmers to natural resource corporations. Farmers became miners for their new overlords and “company towns” controlled all aspects of daily life, heck they even had their own money. When the miners got fed up and tried to unionize, the company men hired armies of strikebreakers to augment their county mounties. The Battle of Blair Mountain was the result and it was serious business. Many of the miners had recent military experience and virtually all of them had been hunting all their lives so they could definitely shoot straight and had the stomach for killing. The company men won the battle but eventually lost the war in the 1930s when the area was finally unionized.
This kind of stuff is common in India as well…
Labor disputes in mining can be intense, like that recent South African slaughter in which three dozen miners died charging the regime’s policemen.
Going underground to mind builds impressive espirit de corps.
Odds that old Gao Shangpei is mis-remembering his personal involvement in fighting the Japs, given he was 7 years old at the time of the Marco Polo bridge incident? Not saying it was impossible, just that Yunnan was pretty far from the main theatres of ground combat in the Sino Japanese war and he was 15 when it ended.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Northern_Burma_and_Western_Yunnan
@ Pseudonymic Handle
"the villagers themselves have no legal rights"
They do have legal rights, even if they don't really own the land. Problem is, these rights are all-too often ignored by local governments & property developers.
For some pics of the incident & some online reactions by Chinese:
http://www.chinasmack.com/2014/pictures/yunnan-villagers-capture-and-set-fire-to-forced-demolition-crew.html
Then again, after World War II, every Frenchman was a maquisard and every Chinaman was an anti-Japanese fighter. Nobody was a collaborator... except ugly villains in movies.Replies: @Anonymous
I believe the Appalachian version of that Chinese idiom is “They sing from the same hymn sheet.”
They crap through the same hole
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlandish_Proverbs
Fuyou stands out only because of violence. Conflicts over land rights are a constant occurrence in China.
From wikipedia : "An estimated 65 percent of the 180,000 annual "mass incidents" in China stem from grievances over forced land requisitions"Replies: @Anonymous, @Bill, @Retired, @Twinkie
OK, now that I have successfully kept it in my mind, what shall I do with it there? Admire how vile it makes “rule of law” conservatives look? Consider how nasty and dehumanizing a disease autism really is?
Oh yes, I remember that SA mining accident – up there with Sharpeville. Made the headlines everywhere, didn’t it?
More wonderful stuff:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/19/killer-spider-supermarket-shopping
Brazilian imports. It’s a small price to pay.
anyone having trouble with the battle of Blair Mountain link just take the slash off the end.
There was fighting in Yunnan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Northern_Burma_and_Western_Yunnan
@ Pseudonymic Handle
“the villagers themselves have no legal rights”
They do have legal rights, even if they don’t really own the land. Problem is, these rights are all-too often ignored by local governments & property developers.
For some pics of the incident & some online reactions by Chinese:
http://www.chinasmack.com/2014/pictures/yunnan-villagers-capture-and-set-fire-to-forced-demolition-crew.html
Fuyou stands out only because of violence. Conflicts over land rights are a constant occurrence in China.
From wikipedia : "An estimated 65 percent of the 180,000 annual "mass incidents" in China stem from grievances over forced land requisitions"Replies: @Anonymous, @Bill, @Retired, @Twinkie
Psuedo, donate your property rights to the government and move there along with Tom Friedman and the growing tide of Americans emigrating to China
Actually this sort of thing happens all the time in China, we just don’t read about it:
http://factsanddetails.com/china/cat9/sub63/item1109.html
Only occasionally do the locals win out:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/motorway-built-around-apartment-block-1450314
The dutch have a saying that is similar, if cruder:
They crap through the same hole
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlandish_Proverbs
Or Pale Rider style.
I would like to see the Chinese Clint Eastwood
Our peasants are better than theirs!
Sino-Japanese War ended in 1945, which was 69 years ago. If the man is 85, then he was 16 at the time. Probably unlikely, but not impossible, I guess.
Then again, after World War II, every Frenchman was a maquisard and every Chinaman was an anti-Japanese fighter. Nobody was a collaborator… except ugly villains in movies.
Fuyou stands out only because of violence. Conflicts over land rights are a constant occurrence in China.
From wikipedia : "An estimated 65 percent of the 180,000 annual "mass incidents" in China stem from grievances over forced land requisitions"Replies: @Anonymous, @Bill, @Retired, @Twinkie
Actually even violence doesn’t make it stand out. There are tens of thousands of land disputes of this sort in China every year and many are quite violent. But this is all quite underhanded and chaotic violence. For my money, I prefer the be-suited fisticuffs in the Taiwanese legislature or the organized, ritualistic mass street confrontation between the South Korean riot police and student demonstrators (even better is when the demonstrators are Buddhist monks or military veterans).
It’s all fun and games until somebody brings out an improvised flamethrower:
The irony is that, far from being a communist system, this is a most feudal arrangement, one in which the King, the barons, and the peasants squabble over customary manorial tenant rights.
See: http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/fass/projects/manorialrecords/manors/whatis.htm#ManorialTenants
Currently live in China.
Recently heard a Chinese expression used to describe trying to explain something to either someone who is not that smart or who is very stubborn and won’t listen: ” to play beautiful music for a cow.”
I notice that quite a few Chinese expressions involve cows.
Historically it is a nation of farmers. The government initiated a program a couple of decades ago to buy land (or perhaps they purchased the “rights” to the land) from farmers in order to encourage them to move to the cities. My understanding from reading and speaking with Chinese is that one reason for this program is that it was thought that small farms were inefficient and that therefore it was a better idea to allow larger farms to flourish (better for whom?). Of course it also encouraged real estate prices to boom as all these people flush with cash relocated to cities and needed new housing and it also allowed people opening factories to acquire cheap labor as poor farmers flowed into the cites (it is always everywhere who whom isn’t it?). On the other hand, like small towns everywhere in the world, many of the young could not wait to leave for the big cities, so these programs naturally appealed to the children of many of these poor farmers.
One thing that is very different here is that you need permission to move to another province here…if you are a Chinese citizen you cannot just move to another city in another province without the permission of the government. My impression it that is routinely granted if you can verify employment in the new city
The big problem is that there really are not enough jobs for all these farmers many who are poor and uneducated….many of them become migrant laborers.
The reason so many factory jobs have moved here is the seemingly inexhaustible supply of cheap labor (not to mention labor that is also hard working and pretty smart).
Most Chinese are still poor and it is not uncommon for me to meet young Chinese who earn the equivalent of about $4,000.00 per year in U.S. dollars working 6 days a week (the actually GDP is about $10,000.00). On the other hand, I see Mercedes cars on the road all the time too…so the income gap is wide and this is often discussed by the Chinese as a potential problem.
Recently heard a Chinese expression used to describe trying to explain something to either someone who is not that smart or who is very stubborn and won't listen: " to play beautiful music for a cow."
I notice that quite a few Chinese expressions involve cows.
Historically it is a nation of farmers. The government initiated a program a couple of decades ago to buy land (or perhaps they purchased the "rights" to the land) from farmers in order to encourage them to move to the cities. My understanding from reading and speaking with Chinese is that one reason for this program is that it was thought that small farms were inefficient and that therefore it was a better idea to allow larger farms to flourish (better for whom?). Of course it also encouraged real estate prices to boom as all these people flush with cash relocated to cities and needed new housing and it also allowed people opening factories to acquire cheap labor as poor farmers flowed into the cites (it is always everywhere who whom isn't it?). On the other hand, like small towns everywhere in the world, many of the young could not wait to leave for the big cities, so these programs naturally appealed to the children of many of these poor farmers.
One thing that is very different here is that you need permission to move to another province here...if you are a Chinese citizen you cannot just move to another city in another province without the permission of the government. My impression it that is routinely granted if you can verify employment in the new city
The big problem is that there really are not enough jobs for all these farmers many who are poor and uneducated....many of them become migrant laborers.
The reason so many factory jobs have moved here is the seemingly inexhaustible supply of cheap labor (not to mention labor that is also hard working and pretty smart).
Most Chinese are still poor and it is not uncommon for me to meet young Chinese who earn the equivalent of about $4,000.00 per year in U.S. dollars working 6 days a week (the actually GDP is about $10,000.00). On the other hand, I see Mercedes cars on the road all the time too...so the income gap is wide and this is often discussed by the Chinese as a potential problem.Replies: @WhatEvvs
“so the income gap is wide and this is often discussed by the Chinese as a potential problem.”
Maybe they’ll have a revolution. They tend to do that. Goes against the US stereotype of the Chinese as phlegmatic and accustomed to abuse.
Problem w/revolutions is that they produce a lot of refugees.
Then again, after World War II, every Frenchman was a maquisard and every Chinaman was an anti-Japanese fighter. Nobody was a collaborator... except ugly villains in movies.Replies: @Anonymous
….every Jewish person who was alive in that time period is a Holocaust survivor
This kind of stuff is common in India as well…
Like China, it does seem quite common in India. Lots of organized mob violence with the most primitive of weapons. Often wealthy landholders (indirectly) versus impoverished tribals. It must go way back and it sometimes implicitly underlies politics. (One reason why the trishul (trident) is such a polarizing symbol). Random:
“Beyond the Trishul and the Tamasha: Hindu Nationalism in Different Places”, Ketan Alder, School of Politics & International Relations, University of Nottingham, May 15, 2014:
“…“You can write it down” decreed Narendra Modi… “After May 16th, these Bangladeshis better be prepared with their bags packed!”. Hinting at the mass deportation of Bangladeshi-Muslim migrants in India’s border states, similar incitements to communal violence have been issued by a range of figures associated with the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)… the Party’s candidate for… – the location of anti-Christian pogroms in 2008 – was arrested after issuing a particularly virulent glorification of the killings.”
This poster takes the position that the BJP isn’t really violent. But the point isn’t really about the BJP, but just that in Indian politics communal mob violence, fought with elemental weapons (often iron bars and such), is a realistic thing to talk about.
The Chinese economic minister and the Indian economic minister meet at Davos and become fast friends.
The Chinese invites the Indian to his home. The Chinese official's home is large and luxurious and overlooks a beautiful river. The Indian official is surprised and asks, "I know your salary is only $10,000 a year. How can you afford this?" The Chinese responds by pointing at a gleaming, modern bridge that crosses the river that is full of traffic. He says "See that bridge?" then points at himself and slyly says "50%!"
Now the Indian invites the Chinese to his own home, which is not just luxurious but Maharaja palatial. The Chinese is shocked. He asks, "I know your salary is only $5,000 a year. How are you able to afford this?" The Indian then proudly points at the quiet, scenic river outside his gigantic mansion, "See that?" There is nothing that disturbs the beautiful view, no noise, no traffic, nothing. The Indian smiles confidently and then points at himself "100%!"
“Problem w/revolutions is that they produce a lot of refugees.”
It’s not a problem if you don’t accept them. I wonder who would take me in if I had to flee a revolution or political unrest in the U.S.?
Meanwhile, NPR is worried about how the unrest in Ferguson is accelerating a decline in real estate values. They make it sound like this time whites are fleeing the sadistic, militarized police rather than the peaceful protestors.
http://www.npr.org/2014/10/20/357612090/unrest-in-ferguson-may-speed-up-decline-of-real-estate
Like China, it does seem quite common in India. Lots of organized mob violence with the most primitive of weapons. Often wealthy landholders (indirectly) versus impoverished tribals. It must go way back and it sometimes implicitly underlies politics. (One reason why the trishul (trident) is such a polarizing symbol). Random:
"Beyond the Trishul and the Tamasha: Hindu Nationalism in Different Places", Ketan Alder, School of Politics & International Relations, University of Nottingham, May 15, 2014:
"...“You can write it down” decreed Narendra Modi... “After May 16th, these Bangladeshis better be prepared with their bags packed!”. Hinting at the mass deportation of Bangladeshi-Muslim migrants in India’s border states, similar incitements to communal violence have been issued by a range of figures associated with the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)... the Party’s candidate for... – the location of anti-Christian pogroms in 2008 – was arrested after issuing a particularly virulent glorification of the killings."
This poster takes the position that the BJP isn't really violent. But the point isn't really about the BJP, but just that in Indian politics communal mob violence, fought with elemental weapons (often iron bars and such), is a realistic thing to talk about.Replies: @Twinkie
I’ll tell you the difference between China and India. This is adapted from an old joke.
The Chinese economic minister and the Indian economic minister meet at Davos and become fast friends.
The Chinese invites the Indian to his home. The Chinese official’s home is large and luxurious and overlooks a beautiful river. The Indian official is surprised and asks, “I know your salary is only $10,000 a year. How can you afford this?” The Chinese responds by pointing at a gleaming, modern bridge that crosses the river that is full of traffic. He says “See that bridge?” then points at himself and slyly says “50%!”
Now the Indian invites the Chinese to his own home, which is not just luxurious but Maharaja palatial. The Chinese is shocked. He asks, “I know your salary is only $5,000 a year. How are you able to afford this?” The Indian then proudly points at the quiet, scenic river outside his gigantic mansion, “See that?” There is nothing that disturbs the beautiful view, no noise, no traffic, nothing. The Indian smiles confidently and then points at himself “100%!”
Meanwhile in America (say, outside Seattle), there is no bridge across many rivers, because, as everyone knows, bridges disturb fish.
Pale Rider was my first thought as well. Good to remember that rural China is about as civilized as c. 1860s California.
I would like to see the Chinese Clint Eastwood