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Race Gap in Bar Exam Passage Rates Widens, So Let's Get Rid of LSAT!
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From Reuters:

May 3, 2022
The racial gap in bar exam pass rates got worse in 2021
By Karen Sloan

Summary

ABA data show the disparity in first-time pass rates between white and Black law grads grew to 24 percentage points in 2021

That’s among the reasons to rethink how attorneys are licensed, reformers say
May 2 (Reuters) – New data from the American Bar Association highlighting racial disparities in bar exam pass rates could add fuel to ongoing debates over the fairness of the attorney licensing test and whether it should be reformed.

Also from Reuters:

May 6, 2022
End of the LSAT? Law school entry test is on the chopping block again
By Karen Sloan

The ABA this month will consider a proposal to eliminate its standardized testing requirement for law school admissions

A similar effort in 2018 failed after last-minute opposition

(Reuters) – The American Bar Association is once again considering dropping its requirement that law schools use the Law School Admission Test—or any standardized test—when weighing student applications.

Getting rid of the LSAT to get into law school isn’t going to narrow the race gap in passing the bar exam 3 years later.

The single most important thing lawyers do — write contracts — is a sort of late medieval form of computer programming. You need to understand the specifications and perceive what your contract will cause to happen and what could go wrong. As in computer coding, IQ is very valuable in contract coding.

 
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  1. We must return to scientific freedom, to be able to suggest the obvious, a possibility that races have different talent and capacity as lawyers.

    This insane world is all based on wrong assumptions which are based on PC gag orders: “Though shalt not speak, nor think negatively of “minorities””

    Race realism must be allowed as alternative theory, which then can be tested with the scientific method.

    Oh, it has already been tested and proven right. Maybe we have to start respecting the scientific method, facts over leftist wrong long debunked narratives.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    , @Rooster14
  2. Anon[683] • Disclaimer says:

    Great. If they get rid of the LSAT, they’ll just be flunking the bar exam. And they’ll be loaded up with a lot of law school debt they can’t pay off because they have no lawering job afterward.

    Somewhere or other, I saw someone say that universities really make their money off grad school students, and it’s grad students that are primarily responsible for keeping our college system funded.

    Letting unqualified people into grad school and loading them down with debt is a really crappy thing to do to them. It’s like all college administrators do is look at blacks and think let’s rob this dumb sucker and make him pay for my salary.

    Someone also said somewhere that if you look at the background of people who work in the admissions, they really aren’t that well-educated themselves, and they don’t know what a good candidate is actually like. They can’t assess brains and ability properly, only personality.

  3. PaceLaw says:

    Well said Steve! As a lawyer, I can attest to your statements.

    It seems as if due to the certain George Floyd-incident of a couple of years ago, that damn-near all specifications and requirements have been increasingly eviscerated in order to make every profession more “diverse.” If this gibberish keeps up, we will be back to witchdoctors and soothsayers before we know it. Sad.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Curle
    , @fish
  4. Mr. Anon says:

    The first thing we do, let’s dumb-down all the lawyers!

  5. So Let’s Get Rid of LSAT!

    “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers. That will surely narrow the gap.”

    • Replies: @fish
  6. Alden says:

    It’s no surprise. Griggs vs Duke Power abolished any objective testing in 1973. Kaiser vs Weber re affirmed the abolition of testing in 1979.

    And the justices in the Kaiser case also found that a steel mill foreman need not have a high school diploma nor a GED nor be able to read well enough to read test questions written at 5th grade level. For some strange reason, most American steel companies moved overseas after that decision.

    Might as well abolish the LSAT. It’s been changed several times in the last 40 years to accommodate blacks. Abolish the State Bar exams too. They are much too much trouble.

    • Thanks: Mr. Anon
  7. J.Ross says:

    Conversely, I propose that we attach a mathematics, a foreign language, a police ride-along, and a phronesis (say, two summers working construction) prerequisite to all law school applicants.

    • Agree: AnotherDad
    • Replies: @George
    , @SunBakedSuburb
  8. J.Ross says:
    @PaceLaw

    You don’t think we’re there already? Are you honestly just going to disrespect Shango like your body doesn’t conduct?

    • Replies: @Rob
    , @possumman
    , @AKINDLE
  9. Gordo says:

    Separation is the solution.

  10. ‘Black lawyer’

    Every time you see one in a suit, you just know a lot of AA is propping them up.

  11. @Mr. Anon

    This will lead to only one thing – more lawyers driving Ubers.

    • LOL: E. Rekshun
  12. dearieme says:
    @Gordo

    Give ’em Alaska.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Anonymous
  13. Will ABA suggest we abolish Law Schools next? In most countries, you get a legal studies degree, then do your lawyering.

  14. Rob says:
    @J.Ross

    “Backwards people believe a silly thing? How can science explain that?”

    More than the differences in cognitive abilities, the personality differences between the races are amazing. I wonder how much of that is just due to cognitive ability, though. Are Jews crazy because they are verbally gifted, because they are a minority trying to undermine someone else’s culture (the ones in Israel are not nearly as crazy, or did evolution warp their personalities evolving better tax farmers?

    Asians can be very good at math and shapes, yet have very child-like views of people. They get tunnel vision very easily and cannot see obvious consequences. Someone here mentioned the Chinese one-child policy. A two-child policy would have been not-insane. The fact that they could not predict the medium-run problems of halving each generation is amazing. Their inability to realize that their daughters are as related to them as their sons are is also fascinating.

    The “muh dicking” and self-esteem far beyond their ability is a noteworthy trait of African Americans, I don’t know any Africans to say whether they follow the African American pattern. Seeing everything in terms of dominance hierarchies is another African American trait that I’m not sure if it’s just because they are dumber.

    HBD goes far beyond IQ and sprinting, but getting objective-ish measures of cross-racial personality traits is difficult. When an Asian rates himself as “very outgoing,” is he even considering blacks as people in the comparison group? Probably he means “I’m extraverted for an Asian.”

    Like there’s the old stereotype of inscrutable Asians, but no one thinks, “Boy howdy, do blacks keep their feelings to themselves!”

    Population differences in personality “net of IQ” would be really interesting.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Joe Stalin
    , @Wilkey
    , @Anon
  15. J.Ross says:

    OT Two youfs appear to have opened fire on a group of children on a sidewalk, in one report it says five shots and they hit nothing. Police caught up with one and are still looking for the other. It’s not in national news because … because of Putin.

    • Replies: @Truth
  16. It’s been apparent for a while that the bulk of legal “work” is the low hanging fruit that will be the first that a half-way decent AI will harvest within a decade.

    The future for the next darker wave of lawyers: Plucked and fucked.

    Their big make or break case decision will be; Who do we sue for that?

  17. J.Ross says:
    @Rob

    One child is probably a bad example of East Asian tunnel vision because it’s not only specifically Chinese but specifically from that guy who thought that completely exterminating the songbirds that eat locusts would be a bright idea, or for that matter making peasants sacrifice their one kitchen appliance; less Asian and more a Maslovian hammer.
    Have you seen the lecture by the philosopy professor who taught in Africa about how they pretty much crash into Sapir-Whorf?

    • Replies: @Rob
    , @Rob
  18. Daniel H says:
    @Alden

    It’s no surprise. Griggs vs Duke Power abolished any objective testing in 1973. Kaiser vs Weber re affirmed the abolition of testing in 1979.

    If Roe v. Wade can be reversed these bullshit decisions can be reversed too. Stare decisis as it is currently understood is an ideology for slaves.

    • Replies: @Alden
  19. SFG says:
    @Alden

    I didn’t know that about the steel companies. There’s an awful lot of lost information about the effects of these decisions that’s hard to get to (and will be lost when the people who have it die).

    • Replies: @Alden
  20. Batman says:

    As a practicing lawyer who benefits from this cartel by receiving inflated wages because they limit competition, here’s my spicy take. Lawyers should not be regulated or licensed unless you hold clients’ money. The state should have no say as to the qualifications of your divorce attorney. I see no reason why financial planners can’t do simple wills and trusts (ironically, the Cadillac living trust in my state is written as sold by the wealth management department of a large investment bank). All criminal attorney work below a felony is bullshit. 95% of consumer bankruptcies are no-asset Chapter 7’s which are nothing more than filing out forms and don’t actually involve any legal advice (other than the ex ante Dave Ramsay “are you sure you want to do this” talk).

    Simply put, unsophisticated consumers don’t have problems that are complicated enough to demand the practitioner be licensed. Sophisticated businesses know what they’re doing and don’t need a silly license to tell them whether this independent contractor is competent..

  21. usNthem says:

    This just underscores yet again that most blacks in higher end professions and/or positions of authority where merit, intelligence and competence were typical requirements, are likely affirmative action hires.

  22. Gamecock says:

    If they can’t pass the test . . . get rid of the test. Brilliant !!!

  23. Mike Tre says:

    Karen Sloan:

    • LOL: Muggles, AceDeuce
    • Replies: @Kylie
  24. J.Ross says:

    OT Wall Street Silver posted this to Twitter with the observation, “when they program these to hunt and kill we are so [Warnocked].”

    • Replies: @Ben Kurtz
  25. @Anon

    The ABA is going to fix the bar exam problem and they’ll never repay the “student” loan debt anyway.

  26. @Mr. Anon

    And then give them judgeships?

  27. TTSSYF says:
    @Gordo

    Yes, and that’s why I’m hoping Roe v. Wade is overturned. Returning the issue to the states likely will only accelerate the self-sorting into the various states that’s taken place during and post-lockdown.

    • Replies: @EdwardM
    , @Charon
  28. guest007 says:

    If anyone has a family member or friend wanting to go to law school, give them the book:

    Don’t Go To Law School (Unless): A Law Professor’s Inside Guide to Maximizing Opportunity and Minimizing Risk by Paul Campos.

    His old blog:

    http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/

    • Thanks: AceDeuce
  29. George says:
    @J.Ross

    phronesis (Thanks for improving my vocabulary)
    How it used to be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_law

  30. bomag says:
    @Anon

    … universities really make their money off grad school students, and it’s grad students that are primarily responsible for keeping our college system funded.

    Like a store, every department brings in money. Some more than others.

    In the hard sciences, grad students themselves seldom fork over much of their own money; they work cheap; the research programs draw outside money: gov’t; industry; foundations.

    • Replies: @Paul Mendez
  31. Jack D says:
    @Anon

    If they get rid of the LSAT, they’ll just be flunking the bar exam.

    C’mon, you gotta play the chess game a few moves ahead. After you get rid of the LSAT, then you get rid of the bar exam (or make it “fairer” – i.e. easier to pass).

    The article hints at it. There are “ongoing debates over the fairness of the attorney licensing test and whether it should be reformed.”

    The racial disparity in pass rate makes the bar exam highly suspect. If this was, say a test for becoming a cop or a firefighter, it would have lost in court a long time ago. Up until now, the legal profession has, like Congress, exempted itself from having to take the medicine that it prescribes for the society but that era is apparently drawing to a close.

  32. @Alden

    And the justices in the Kaiser case also found that a steel mill foreman need not have a high school diploma nor a GED nor be able to read well enough to read test questions written at 5th grade level.

    The gist of the Griggs vs. Duke Power decision is essentially that 9 lawyers decided capability operating a power plant has no reasonable relation to general intelligence.

    Note, they didn’t have any objection to all the testing–SAT, LSAT, Bar Exams–to get to be a lawyer. See being a lawyer takes smarts. Operating a power plant, that just takes bodies. And these lawyers–not the management at Duke Power–know, because they are certified really smart people.

    You can make this stuff up.

  33. Lower the bar for Negroes–who cares? Just give them an NJD (Negro Juris Doctor)

    • Replies: @Neuday
  34. bomag says:

    data show the disparity in ________ between white and Black _______grew to 24 percentage points in 2021

    We’re incentivizing failure. The more they fail, the more they get.

    • Agree: res, Charon
  35. Arclight says:

    Conveniently, this fits right into the business model of higher ed – admit loads of marginally or unqualified students who are flush with student loans, ‘graduate’ them to get them out into the world without impairing your institutions’ stats, and voila, no worries when they spend decades struggling to pay off their debt because their degrees don’t mask their inadequacies with actual employers.

    I think I remember UT doing some kind of study years back about the ROI of the various degrees they offer, but doubt there is anyone out there surveying large numbers of graduates from an array of schools to find out who is getting fleeced the most.

    • Agree: Paul Mendez
    • Replies: @guest007
  36. How many blacks who get a law degree but can’t pass the bar get jobs as university diversocrats? Every university needs some black diversocrats with some sort of paper credential, and I would think that a law degree without bar passage would be plenty.

    Former Congressman Harold Ford is an example of someone with a law degree and no bar passage who has done extremely well. He’d probably still be a Congressman if he hadn’t tried to move up to the Senate, and he’s had what looks to me like a kick-ass career after closely loosing a Senate election in 2006.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Ford_Jr.

    “Ford returned to university for a J.D. degree from the University of Michigan Law School in 1996. During his campaign for the House of Representatives, he sat for and failed the Tennessee bar exam; he said that he intended to try again;[13] as of 2014, he had not.[14]”

  37. AceDeuce says:

    We are oh so slowly inching our way toward the happy day when YT, instead of nervously looking down and clearing his throat while the niggs ook and eek and piss and moan, delivers a full-throated roar, shifting the conversation to how God-awful f**ked up niggros are, and how they need to be gone forthwith.

    Piss on “It’s not you, it’s me”. Niggs need to be told “It’s not us, it’s you.” Preferably on their way out de’ do’.

    • Replies: @Alden
  38. I am beyond bored with the black dilemma in this country. Admit unqualified people to a program of studies and fret when they can’t succeed. Unqualified lawyers are basically a hazard for their clients. Unqualified doctors and pilots are a completely different problem. Have biden pour billions into the HBCUs and then let their grads practice without taking a Bar Exam. Probably work because of the catch and release, no bail and “restorative justice” programs in America.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  39. Jack D says:

    The single most important thing lawyers do — write contracts — is a sort of late medieval form of computer programming. You need to understand the specifications and perceive what your contract will cause to happen and what could go wrong.

    It’s a little like being an airline pilot – 99% of the time the pilot is a glorified bus driver but then there is one day where he will earn back all of the money spent on his expensive and time consuming training.

    Same thing with contracts. A huge amount of \$ gets spend drafting and negotiating contracts (sometimes it boggles my mind that a little sheaf of papers can cost as much to buy as a car or even a house) and 99% of the time the contract gets put in a drawer and no one ever looks at it again. But then in that 1% of cases, your client gets back all the legal fees that he has spent over the years and much more because something goes badly wrong and you open up the contract and lo and behold the thing that has just happened is covered under the contract and covered in a way that is favorable to the client.

    • Agree: Alden, Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Charon
    , @Justvisiting
  40. guest007 says:
    @Arclight

    Washington Monthly has had articles about the worst universities. The authors coined the term “failure factory” to describe universities that graduate less than 20% of their entering freshmen in six years or less.

    https://washingtonmonthly.com/2010/08/22/college-dropout-factories/

    A metric that can be used to analyze universities is the gap between the six year graduation rate for all students versus students on Pell Grants. Such a statistic would show that many low income/first in the family college students should not go to the state flagship university due to higher risks of dropping out.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  41. Alden says:
    @SFG

    Affirmative action discrimination against Whites is the major thing I have against liberals and the federal court system. Did you know affirmative action began in March 1961 with an executive order by John Kennedy?

  42. @AnotherDad

    AD, and you know courts rarely explode causing loss of life and millions of dollars in property damage, but power plants…

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  43. Charon says:
    @Jack D

    Yeah, I’ve known many attorneys, some of whom were quite competent.

  44. Charon says:
    @Anon

    BTW, negroes also fail state driving tests with astonishing regularity. It then follows that requiring drivers licenses is racist, and I think we’ve already done away with the requirement for insurance. Unless you’re white of course.

  45. Alden says:
    @AnotherDad

    You should have seen the rejection letter a medical school sent my brother a few years after Kaiser 1979. It was practically an invitation to sue for anti White discrimination. We would like to admit you because of your MCAT test scores etc but due to “ judicial constraints “ we cannot admit you. Judicial constraint. A 5 to 4 or 6 to 3 decision by the minions of Satan.

    I really hope some of the states including California do decide to eliminate the state bar. Every White person in the country should realize that all the inequities and discrimination against Whites since school desegregation 1953 to widespread job , contracting business etc discrimination against Whites has been done by lawyers and judges? Not elected legislators?

    2 presidents did it too Kennedy in favor of blacks. Nixon did an executive order for Hispanics.

    Do any of you have kids? The whole high schools keeping White kids noses to the grindstone and parents spending 4 years driving them around to college admissions activities . And for what? To be rejected. And upon graduation rejected for job after job. I’ve been hearing for the last 6 weeks about San Francisco suburban “ good “ high schools. School after school where not one senior was accepted into a University of California campus.

    • Thanks: The Anti-Gnostic
  46. The single most important thing lawyers do — write contracts — is a sort of late medieval form of computer programming.

    That’s a sound analogy, but in some fields of law that any competent contract lawyer needs to understand well – and especially in equity (in the sense that lawyers understand the term) – the “science” of law (which can be stated largely in algorithms) needs a dollop of the “art” of law to reach a conclusion that is legally sound. Far-sighted 14th-century common lawyers seem to have invented equity as a job protection measure for a world of advanced AI.

  47. keypusher says:
    @Alden

    Kaiser vs Weber re affirmed the abolition of testing in 1979.

    And the justices in the Kaiser case also found that a steel mill foreman need not have a high school diploma nor a GED nor be able to read well enough to read test questions written at 5th grade level. For some strange reason, most American steel companies moved overseas after that decision.

    I don’t think that’s what happened. The United States produced half the world’s steel in 1940. By the 1960s, imports from Japan and South Korea were devastating U.S. producers, thanks to lower costs and better technology. (They weren’t encumbered by older equipment, either because they’d never had it or because it had been blown up.) During the 1960s steel imports increased 600%. By 1970 American steel was no longer cost-competitive and the Nixon Administration was negotiating so-called “Voluntary Restraint Agreements” . (People often trace the hollowing out of the American economy to NAFTA, but really it started with steel and ships in the 1960s, followed by cars and consumer goods in the 1970s.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_steel_industry_(1850%E2%80%931970)

    https://digitalcommons.lmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1166&context=ilr

    I’m not saying Weber was a good idea, I’m saying it didn’t have much of anything to do with the decline in American steel. And despite Weber, if you talk to a foreman you’re going to find that he’s actually pretty smart. There are not lots of people with 5th grade educations running American steel mills.

    Part of the reason HBD or race realism or whatever you want to call it never caught on was, in the 1970s, when the country was much less diverse than it is now, everything sucked. Crime was high, cars were awful, cities were war zones, everyone was on drugs, inflation was crazy high, unemployment was high, clothes were hideous. And over the following decades, as the country got much more diverse, almost everything got much better. Crime dropped, cars got better, cities got better, drug abuse got rarer or at least more tasteful, inflation disappeared, unemployment dropped, even clothes weren’t so bad. People really didn’t see much reason to dislike diversity, and they saw lots of reasons to like it.

    What I think we’ve seen in the last ten years, but especially the last seven, and even more so the last two, is increased diversity causing an ideological revolution. And it’s gradually wrecking institutions and professions. What is the effect of diversity on cognitively demanding fields? Bluntly, people are brought in who otherwise wouldn’t qualify. As a result you get things like Marsha McLemore’s infamous article on E.O. Wilson. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-complicated-legacy-of-e-o-wilson/ Even Eric Turkheimer criticized the article. But if you’re going to bring people like Marsha McLemore into your field, you’re going to have to redefine that field to include things that Marsha McLemore can do. And so there’s more and more demand for bad scholarship and more and more demand for diversity. But it’s going to be a long time before the average lawyer or scientist gets meaningfully dumber. And AI may have taken over by the time that happens.

    • Thanks: Buffalo Joe
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    , @bomag
    , @Anonymous
    , @Alden
  48. I recently became quite aware of just how much legal language can be like computer programming.

    The definition of inheritance by representation, as stated in certain state laws, actually involves recursion. It took me a serious thinking to assure myself I understood it right — and there was a lot of money at stake.

    And this is an issue a pretty standard local lawyer might have to deal with in handling an estate.

  49. @Gordo

    Separation is the solution.

    Being together–marriage, a community, a nation–requires a common set of norms, expectations and some good will.

    Obviously, America was going to have issues with that from the get-go, with black slaves and their descendants. But America was doing surprisingly well when i was born, with the basic operating principle that everyone should assimilate to its traditional Anglo-American-Protestant norms. Even Catholics like my (paternal) family were doing a decent enough job at that.

    With the rise of the Jews pushing minoritarianism that got shot to hell. How exactly you’re supposed to operate a nation where all the minority groups are not just allowed, but encouraged to have hostile Jewish-like attitudes to the white majority?

    And unleashing minoritarianism–“Your people are oppressed! Not just in the past, but right now. Even if it doesn’t look like it, it’s built in! Rise up! You don’t have to take no shit from the man! Be mad!”–on blacks is just a recipe for disaster. Blacks require lots more constraint than whites to fit into civilized society.

    How exactly is this anti-nation “nation” supposed to work? Continual intense propaganda.
    And beatings. Beating deplorable white people as necessary. I.e. a police state.

    I say we check “pass” and those so inclined live in a restored America with our culture, norms, traditions. Let the rainbow people enjoy their cluster without getting to loot us.

  50. @Buffalo Joe

    courts rarely explode causing loss of life and millions of dollars in property damage

    You could argue that in the growing wedge of completely unhinged decisions that the courts have been handing down since the late 20th century, the courts really have (figuratively) exploded and have (literally) cost thousands of lives lost and trillions in property damage.

    And that started before they got affirmative actioned. Epic smart people fail.

    • Agree: AnotherDad, bomag
    • Replies: @Adept
    , @Buffalo Joe
  51. Carol says:
    @Jack D

    There are already states where the bar is not required if you graduated from a state law school. Wisconsin is one. Montana was one until 1984. I missed that privilege and took the exam, after a six week bar-bri course that cost another thousand dollars.

    The ones who scored high on the LSAT were in fact scary smart in class and later ascended to brilliant careers, while my own proceeded as my LSAT score predicted.

  52. @Jack D

    the thing that has just happened is covered under the contract and covered in a way that is favorable to the client.

    My family is about to benefit from what happens when the other side had a mediocre attorney.

    That attorney just created a boilerplate document, and lacked the imagination to consider the low likelihood scenario that later happened in the real world.

    Bad attorneys are time bombs for their clients.

  53. JimB says:

    I have a theory, based on trends underlying standardized testing, that America has gone through three stages of dummification, explaining why our country is on a glidepath to mediocracy and destruction. In the late fifties, it was generally agreed that standardized tests such as the SAT and ACT were an effective means to identify intellectual talent. And America’s elite colleges used such tests to fill their classes with the brightest students. But around the mid-seventies, aggressive kids with a chip on their shoulder and determined to enter the elite to feel superior to others began studying for standardized tests, gradually ruining their value as a measure of the most talented (anyone with an IQ of 138 could study their way to a perfect score). This is the first stage of dummification. Then, sometime in the eighties, public schools showed noticeable changes in demographics as increasing numbers of Asians came on the scene. Asian parents insisted that all their children study for standardized tests and a ready market appeared for test prep companies. This brought the second stage of dummification as rapidly increasing number of SAT high scorers were not really as gifted as their test scores seemed to suggest (anyone with an IQ over 130 could get a perfect score). The third stage of dummification was the 90s, with frequent renorming and redesign of college entrance exams. College entrance tests were now greatly degraded so basically anyone with an IQ over 120 could study their way to a perfect score on the SAT.

    The result of the three stages of dummification is a rapidly rising percentage of the academic, business, and government elite who are not elite at all. Furthermore, these poseurs of giftedness are often beneficiaries of the Peter Principle. I would argue that most of the people running the Biden Administration, the Democratic party, and the Mainstream Media are poseurs of giftedness., hence their desire to destroy free speech. Because their ability to craft arguments and defend their positions and decisions is nugatory. The leftwing heavy hitters in government today come from the first era of dummification so buckle up. We have even bigger dummies in the pipeline on their way to corporate boardrooms, newsrooms, and the Congress.

    • Replies: @JimB
  54. @Anon

    Somewhere or other, I saw someone say that universities really make their money off grad school students…

    Not directly. In my year in grad school, I didn’t pay or owe a dime. The TA position covered the cost.

    I did feel guilty toward my girlfriend’s parents, though. They lived in the state whose university I attended, thus having paid for it.

    Law and medical schools may be different. But they usually aren’t what Americans mean by “grad school”.

  55. Adept says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Yeah. Here’s a new one for you:

    https://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/national/article261117932.html

    19-year-old lube technician Daniel Thompson worked on the car. After the service was complete, the vehicle “lurched forward” as the young employee attempted to operate it, crushing 42-year-old mechanic Jeffrey Hawkins against a cabinet, court records show. Hawkins was taken to the hospital, where he succumbed to his injuries, according to The Kansas City Star.

    Attorney David Femminineo, who is representing Hawkins’ estate, told FOX 2 that Thompson did not know how to drive the vehicle’s manual transmission and did not have a license. The attorney also said the dealership cannot be sued because of a legal standard preventing an employee from suing their boss for negligence, which, in this case, would be the hiring of someone who should not have been driving.

    The car owner and Thompson were both sued in a Michigan circuit court in March 2021.

    “So in reality, the owner is going to be held responsible, but the dealership’s insurance company is paying,” Femminineo told McClatchy News. He said he hopes a verdict in excess of \$15 million is awarded.

    So the car’s owner is going to be sued even though he wasn’t driving and had nothing to do with the incident.

    This kind of inanity is utterly normal in American civil courts, which are more broken than anybody can possibly imagine.

    To hell with the LSATs. What the legal profession needs is men with (much) more common sense and better instincts for natural law. Today’s legal profession utterly lacks common sense and has no clue what the term “natural law” even means.

  56. @Buffalo Joe

    I am beyond bored with the black dilemma in this country.

    Me too.

    I’m basically wired up as a nice guy. And my parents were what you’d call “racial liberals”. (Easier to do if you’re from … Iowa.) Our family did lots of good-thought-thinking. (My dad to the day he died, a sucker for such b.s.)

    I want America to do well–to be civilized, free and prosperous. Heck, I wish the same for everyone in the world. And for wildlife to be doing well as well, the forests, deserts, oceans. I’m just chock full of good thoughts.

    But I’m just done with it. It had a point in the old assimilationist America–lets keep working the problem and find ways to assimilate blacks to civilized American norms–get them behaving better, improving their lives and hence the quality of American life. But it’s just pointless under minoritarianism.

    Minoritarians used blacks as their club … they own them now. We split and blacks are their problem.

  57. JimB says:
    @JimB

    I have a theory, based on trends underlying standardized testing, that America has gone through three stages of dummification, explaining why our country is on a glidepath to mediocracy and destruction.

    God help us if medical schools scrap the MCAT.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  58. anonymous[585] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    The TA position covered the cost.

    So, for the marginal cost of educating one additional grad student, the university got a full year of academic grunt work (teaching, grading, etc.) for dozens (hundreds?) of undergrads. Still a great deal for you, but the school certainly made their money off grad student Reg. And, as you point out, off your girlfriend’s parents and neighbors.

  59. Forbes says:
    @Anon

    That’s among the reasons to rethink how attorneys are licensed, reformers say

    Well, it’s quite simple. Paying tuition to an ABA-accredited law school, social promotion so as not to lose a tuition-paying spot (or a minority slot for diversity), and receiving the credential at graduation should be sufficient for licensure. Test are for the proletariat.

  60. possumman says:
    @J.Ross

    4minutes and 14 seconds of gibberish

  61. @AnotherDad

    I want America to do well–to be civilized, free and prosperous. Heck, I wish the same for everyone in the world. And for wildlife to be doing well as well, the forests, deserts, oceans. I’m just chock full of good thoughts.

    I see myself feeling that way about the bears around here. They may be dangerous but they have not caused me any harm.

    But–if a bear attacked me and mine the truce would be over.

    The truce with black people ended the first time one of them mugged me in my youth.

  62. Curle says:
    @PaceLaw

    “The single most important thing lawyers do — write contracts”

    You agree with this? If asked I would have said writing opinions or briefs. I will say Steve’s coding reference is an description I too have used to describe legal work.

    • Replies: @Keypusher
  63. Curle says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    They do these days, at least with law.

  64. Ian Smith says:

    I’d rather have IQ 95-105 blacks be lawyers than airplane pilots or surgeons, so maybe dumping the LSAT is a good thing!

  65. @Anon

    It’s like all college administrators do is look at blacks and think let’s rob this dumb sucker and make him pay for my salary.

    College administrators are the real racists!

  66. @SiNCERITY.net

    “We must return to scientific freedom …”

    Agreed. Add to that medical science freedom as in the right of medical professionals to speak candidly with their patients about safe and effective vaccines without being discharged from their hospital system or censured by government apparatchiks in a state like California that has turned authoritarian.

  67. Curle says:
    @Mr. Anon

    In all fairness we got an head start on that back in the ‘70s when courts took away bar’s power over number of law schools and number of students. Don’t recall the specifics of that development, but one of the downsides of Libertarian thinking.

  68. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    C’mon, you gotta play the chess game a few moves ahead. After you get rid of the LSAT, then you get rid of the bar exam (or make it “fairer” – i.e. easier to pass).

    True, but the mismatch will persist and manifest in some way down the line. For example, Charles Murray, in his Facing Reality (p.144), reports the following about lawyers in CA:

    California Attorneys

    Attorneys with 10+ Complaints Lodged
    European 2.8%
    African 7.2%
    Latin 5.0%
    Asian 2%

    Attorneys Placed on Probation
    European 0.6%
    African 1.9%
    Latin 1.2%
    Asian 0.4%

    Even after the LSAT and the bar weeded out much higher percentages of blacks and Hispanics, even among the remainder, there are mismatches. Murray concludes:

    In the legal profession, the race differences in pass rates for the bar exam are commensurate with trace differences in cognitive ability. So are differences in the percentage of attorney who have been the subject of repeated complaints in California.

    Murray has similar data for physicians as well:

    The Medical Board of California is the state agency for licensing and regulating physicians. A study of complaints, investigations, and discipline from July 2003 to June 2013 found the following proportions by race:

    California Physicians

    Physicians with Complaints
    European 28.0%
    African 43.0%
    Latin 36.5%
    Asian 24.7%

    Physicians with Investigations
    European 6.7%
    African 11.7%
    Latin 9.7%
    Asian 5.3%

    Physicians Disciplined
    European 1.0%
    African 1.5%
    Latin 1.9%
    Asian 0.8%

    Real life always reveals mismatches between the selection process and the outcome in reality.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  69. @Mr. Anon

    I ran out of [LOL]’s, but I’d also like to apologize to the lawyers on here for my comment of a minute later. I was a big fan of that Shakespeare quote for many years, as I’d worked in fields in which one could see that lawyers were the root cause of more bureaucracy and regulation, I had a bad attitude about lawyers most of my life.

    It didn’t help that the only 2 lawyers I’ve known reasonably well, one a neighbor and another a friend for a few months, had real personality problems. (Couldn’t do anything about the neighbor, but that’s why the “few months” only.)

    Anyway, sorry to Jack D. and others here. I have changed my attitude a bit – hell, there were lawyers among the Founders of this country even, and then there’s Ann Coulter to boot.

    • Replies: @Curle
    , @Mr. Anon
  70. this change in test performance seems to appear in all standardized tests across the board. it seems to occur at the same time as the pandemic. combined with the increase in violent crime, and increase in the amount of car crashes, which also seems to appear at the time of the pandemic, we can probably advance the thesis that extreme, continuous hand holding of africans by the most productive europeans is the only thing that causes them to even approach the level of functional humans.

    as soon as society was not able to perform that continuous, 24 hour a day monitoring and support for them, they got worse at everything all at once and reverted more towards their actual nominal behavior levels – disorder.

    ‘closing the gap’ was always an artificial thing, and instantly goes away as soon as the europeans aren’t there to hold their hands. 100 years and a trillion dollars of ‘closing the gap’ work is reverted almost immediately as soon as you leave them alone. this is observed on a society wide scale in South Africa, and now in the US.

    it’s either that, or the eugenic/dysgenic genetic distance between the 2 groups is now making a small but detectable increase. so there is no scenario where africans are actually getting closer to being functional, first worlders.

  71. @Mr. Anon

    “dumb-down all the lawyers!”

    I’ve employed a few lawyers during my rather lackluster career and can sum up what I know about their profession thusly: most seem to be mentally lazy, like government bureaucrats. Few would succeed in a profession wherein they had to generate new approaches and ideas on a daily basis. Lawyers are good test takers, a skill that doesn’t always synch with an active mind. They are proficient at following routine. Maybe I say this out of jealously: lousy at test taking, although I did ace the ASVAB which was designed to insure a steady flow of blacks into the Army’s clerical positions. So nothing to brag about there. I’m a clock-watcher in a class room, and I’m plagued with boredom boners.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    , @Paul Mendez
  72. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad

    Minoritarians used blacks as their club … they own them now. We split and blacks are their problem.

    LOL. YOUR ancestors are the ones who literally owned blacks, not mine. When we do the divorce, YOU get the blacks. You are the ones who brought them here – you deal with them.

  73. SIMP simp says:

    Low standards for surgeons and pilots can result in terrible accidents. For lawyers not so much.
    In my country law is the cheapest and easiest degree to get. The bar exam is also pretty easy to pass.
    Does it matter? No.
    Big law firms thoroughly test their prospective employees. Major companies and rich people use only these big law firms. The stupidest lawyers don’t write contracts, they handle divorce cases and traffic tickets.
    Law school is a waste of time anyway, the stuff that is taught, here and in the US, has nothing to do with real world practice and you learn how to handle the real stuff as an intern/associate/junior partner and while doing your job. The law is always changing so life long learning is not just a sound bite when it comes to law practitioners.

  74. @J.Ross

    “and a phronesis … prerequisite to all law school applicants.”

    They replaced phronesis with a Pharaohnesis prerequisite in 2019, a few months before the virus was unleashed. It’s all connected.

    • LOL: J.Ross
  75. Claim of 25,100 KIA: 50.2% of Putin dead Russkie allocation.

  76. Curle says:

    Jews, Portuguese and indirectly French brought them to the continent. Later Brits and Americans landed them in the colonies. Of the Brits and Americans an considerable minority were involved. By what math do you ascribe blame to Anotherdad?

  77. Roger says: • Website
    @Jack D

    Going farther down the line, what if it turns out that Blacks lose lawsuits more often? Or miss filing deadlines more often? Maybe the rules could be changed for Black lawyers so that they would win lawsuits at the same rate as Whites.

  78. SFG says:
    @Jack D

    If he is from Iowa, his ancestors probably didn’t own many slaves.

  79. put another way in math terms, 1/3 of their measured advances over the last 100 years is utterly ephemeral artificial improvement caused simply by being forced to live under european behavior standards enforced on them daily. or should we say, previously enforced on them daily.

    2/3 of their measured improvement is ‘real’, in the way that intelligence researchers argue about whether the general population continues to improve their performance on intelligence tests due to them actually getting smarter, or just getting better at taking tests. africans in the US really did get smarter over the last 100 years.

    this was due to finally being able to live at first world material standards. a permanent improvement for any african who gets to grow up that way. however, it wasn’t due to anything they did on their own or for themselves. they’re totally dependent on other groups providing that material standard. it’s not something they could ever sustain on their own. and as soon as they experience a big increase in social distance away from the providing groups, they again revert back towards their more natural state in the next generation. so even the 2/3 real improvement is shaky, and subject to them ALWAYS being an economic parasite group on a more productive group.

    • Agree: Mark G.
  80. J.Ross says:

    OT — Does the perfidy of disinformatious Russian hackers know no bounds? NYT gives itself over to Putinite defeatism, all NYT readers complicit.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/06/opinion/biden-ukraine-leaks.html

    If you just followed news reports on Ukraine, you might think that the war has settled into a long, grinding and somewhat boring slog. You would be wrong

    How many times are hamsters like Steve going to let themselves be COMPLETELY lied to by the perpendicular-to-reality lyingpress? Pretty much from years before Trump was elected to the present, the smartest way to handle mainstream media claims was to assume the opposite.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @keypusher
  81. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    Jack D is right. His ancestors enslaved Ukrainians in historical Poland, not blacks in the antebellum South. Get it straight.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  82. I second, third, fourth .. all the lawyer bashing (but it’s nothing personal).

    I don’t care what lawyer schools, state bars, etc. require for admission, so long as the burden is 10X greater than what they ask for now. Keep the lawyers busy qualifying for a license (continuing legal education and circumcision also mandatory) rather than screwing over the country.

    Considering what wannabe-lawyers have to endure (but it’ll never be enough), someone who makes it through has demonstrated an unbreakable commitment to the guild. Such true-believers should NOT be allowed to serve in the non-judicial branches. It makes a mockery of the doctrine of Separation (oh, that word). When was the last time a president ever announced, “Let [them] enforce it!”?

    A licensed lawyer who wishes to serve, say, in a legislature should, at the very least, have to surrender his license to practice for a period of ten years, or until such time as all sitting judges, at his level, have moved on, whichever is longer, with no possible pathway for accelerated reinstatement. Iow, show an equally strong, public commitment to cut the cord.

    (Though I do object to those legalistic notions that someone who performs a perfunctory act, so as to meet explicit standards of qualification, has truly satisfied the requirement. The lawyer should have surrendered it minimum 5 years before he filed to run.)

  83. @Rob

    More than the differences in cognitive abilities, the personality differences between the races are amazing. I wonder how much of that is just due to cognitive ability, though.

    Crazy shit gets passed down to the kiddies without Science! if no one asks: “But Why?”

  84. College Board Will No Longer Require Tests

    In a long overdue reform, the Educational Testing Service announced it will no longer test candidates before generating the scores that are often used in judging admissions to U.S. undergraduate and graduate schools. Rather, ETS will use a random number generator to assign scores to individual candidates operating under the constraint that the average score generated for each race and ethnic group shall be exactly equal.

    “We have eliminated a huge waste of time in test taking and preparation,” said Daunte Witherspoon, the new president of ETS. “In addition, by thinking outside the box, we will help move the nation toward full equity for the first time in its history,” added Witherspoon, who is also a freshly minted PhD from the Harvard Graduate School of Education.

    Reached for comment, Sessue Hayakawa, head of the Asian Student Association, muttered “Banzai,” under his breath.

  85. Anon[259] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Same, for MS and PhD. At both my grad schools you could not be accepted if you did not have funding secured, usually whatever grant the professor who was your advisor was working on, but sometimes companies paying directly. Maybe the paying your own way deal is a more common procedure in the humanities but in STEM it’s not just uncommon, but generally prohibited

    • Agree: Paul Mendez
  86. Mike Tre says:
    @Jack D

    Fuck that. My Irish ancestors came over between 1880 and 1900, after their ancestors were the subject of about 800 years of English subjugation, to the point that their entire language was made extinct. No one in my line ever owned a slave of any kind, and as far as I know, there aren’t any Irish founded “civil rights” groups advocating “justice” for the Americanized negro, as is the case with (((you people.)))

    Jewish movie makers and record producers are the people who dragged the negro into the center of American cultural relevance, and Jewish pornographic smut peddlers are the ones who projected their own degenerate fantasies of interracial black male/white woman miscegenation into what now infects every corner of media advertising and film.

    No group in the entire world has done more to undeservedly promote the advancement of the negro than the Jews. Suck on that, buddy.

    • Agree: Alden, Kylie, Adam Smith
  87. fish says:
    @PaceLaw

    Agree…..agree dammit….agreeeee…..stupid button!

    Anyway agree~!

  88. fish says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers…..

    I like where you’re going with this.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  89. AKINDLE says:
    @J.Ross

    Blacks do not belong in Academia. They are stupid parasitic criminals. Our once prestigious Universities are now just welfare magnets for non Whites. They have their own black colleges yet they infest White majority colleges as well. Shame!

  90. fish says:
    @Jack D

    Tread lightly Jack…..then as now your ancestors were working the financing end of things!

  91. Curle says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    May I suggest redirecting your chagrin to: 1) the administrative state (facilitated by lawyers, yes); and 2) Lincoln. This isn’t directed at you but, far too many people who should know better refuse or fail to finger the primary culprits.

  92. Anon[314] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    People who cannot assimilate are maladapted. If they cannot learn from a culture they moved to, their capacity for any learning at all is stunted.

    We have a ton of first generation immigrants inside this country. Usually it’s the second generation that blends in. But this does not work with blacks, who refuse to adapt to white culture. They’re definitely stunted. It probably won’t work with Muslims, who belong to a fanatical religion hostile to Christianity. Jews who moved to Christian cultures hundreds of years ago are still complaining about the existence of Christianity around them to this very day. They’re extremely intolerant of everything about their host culture. They’re maladapted to living in this country because they cannot absorb mainstream values.

    If you talk to a person who is maladapted, they just come across like a whiny, immature nuisance. Just look at trannies. If we were a culture in which one gender had no power at all, and the other had all of it, I could understand why no one would want to belong to the powerless gender. But we live in a culture that has made the genders as equal as possible, which ought to mean that belonging to your own birth gender should not be a big deal. Yet trannies are still profoundly dissatisfied with their own birth skin. They are a whiny, immature, maladapted people.

  93. Thea says:

    US law schools produce thousands more lawyers than needed each year. Elite overproduction destabilizes society.

  94. @Anon

    Great. If they get rid of the LSAT, they’ll just be flunking the bar exam. And they’ll be loaded up with a lot of law school debt they can’t pay off because they have no lawyering job afterward.

    Then they will bar the bar exam that simple, desperate political fanatics are at their worst when their world view crumbles in front of their eyes. They’ll commit Hara-kiri not heresy.

  95. Keypusher says:
    @Curle

    Most big firms make more money on corporate (transactional/contract centered) than litigation (trial and brief-based). At Sullivan & Cromwell where I started it was an unspoken rule that the managing partner would be a corporate attorney.

    On the other hand, it is litigation that is one of the driving forces of wokeness. So it’s not obvious which kind of law matters more.

    • Replies: @Meretricious
    , @kaganovitch
  96. @Jack D

    Minoritarians used blacks as their club … they own them now. We split and blacks are their problem.

    LOL. YOUR ancestors are the ones who literally owned blacks, not mine. When we do the divorce, YOU get the blacks. You are the ones who brought them here – you deal with them.

    Jack, thanks for coming out as a minoritarian. Granted a minoritarian who really doesn’t like blacks and doesn’t like the girly, shrieky woke stuff–like the tranny craziness. I think a “conservative minoritarian” might be a realistic tag. Or maybe a “let’s not get carried away with this … just enough and no more” minoritarian.

    Anyway–I realize from your comments that you are deeply enmeshed in the Jewish world view. Specifically, that you folks “own” us–i.e. have some sort of cosmic right to middle man white gentiles. That we aren’t allowed to just have our own communities and act in our own interests. That is apparently an exclusively Jewish right, white gentiles doing it is … “anti-Semitism”.

    Here’s the thing. It’s b.s. No such right exists. It’s basically impossible to make any moral or ethical case for it. It’s just “what’s good for the Jews” assertion.

    Rather, I assert that all people have an inherent right to live in communities they want with the norms that they want. That’s the actual natural human right. And pretty much the default situation of all peoples down through the ages. Of course, like any right … you have to enforce it or it’s not even worth a cup of coffee. Heck, if you don’t enforce it you may end up someone else’s serf, or slave or get the old kill/rape treatment.

    And that’s the deal. The right to choose your community, your norms. If America loving Americans are able to separate from the minoritarians–yes, a pipe dream, but a good pipe dream–I doubt very many blacks are coming with us. They’ve drunk the kool-aid. They believe they are oppressed. They vote overwhelmingly for the minoritarian/parasite party. We’ll probably get way more Asians and Mexicans. A bunch of Asians prattle off Jewish minoritarian hostilities … because that’s “what’s for dinner” in America 2.0. But push comes to shove, I think even many of those will think “Hey, I’m fine assimilating with white Americans”. (This ravening majority hostility and worshipping their separateness is really a Jewish thing.) Well see. But the point is Americans who wish to live free of minoritarian crazy, do not have to bring anyone along.

    Now after the split … if there is some further intra-Rainbow friction, and Jews and good-whites and Mexicans and blacks and Muslims and Chinese and Indians and homosexuals and trannies can’t all just get along … that minoritarianism is in fact a big lie and diversity is not actually a strength … well hey, that’s not my problem.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
  97. Rooster14 says:
    @SiNCERITY.net

    What really scares me is the lowered standards for Doctors and Pilots. I can decide not to hire a black lawyer, but when my well-being is jeopardized by a diversity quota, that’s when I really start to have a problem.

    • Replies: @Meretricious
  98. Jack D says:

    If America loving Americans are able to separate from the minoritarians–yes, a pipe dream, but a good pipe dream–I doubt very many blacks are coming with us.

    Thanks a bunch. First you import all these Negroes from Africa and then you take off and leave the Negroes behind for the rest of us to deal with. You were the one who brought a pit bull into the house. When it’s time to split up, you’re taking the pit bull with you. You were the one who thought that bringing Negroes was a good idea. They’ll be free labor! We’ll buy them once and from then on they won’t cost us a dime…

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Wilkey
  99. @Jack D

    For all you know, Another Dad’s ancestors don’t even have a pre- 1865 history in America.

  100. TG says:

    “The single most important thing lawyers do — write contracts — is a sort of late medieval form of computer programming.”

    Kudos! I had never thought of that way, but yes!

  101. @SunBakedSuburb

    Few would succeed in a profession wherein they had to generate new approaches and ideas on a daily basis. Lawyers are good test takers, a skill that doesn’t always synch with an active mind. They are proficient at following routine.

    For better or worse I worked with over a hundred lawyers during my working life.

    There was the typical normal curve. The best lawyers could be truly creative and not afraid of thinking outside the box, average lawyers fit the description you gave, and bad lawyers could really &^%\$ things up for their clients.

  102. EdwardM says:
    @TTSSYF

    The Dems are trying to “codify Roe” in a federal law. It seems odd to give a positive right to abortion as a federal matter, but I guess they could call it a civil right and there are plenty of other examples of this.

    It presumably won’t pass this Congress, but could at some point. Then the Republicans would just repeal that law when they had control of Congress and the presidency, and so on ad infinitum. (Such a ping-ponging could make for some interesting natural experiments for researchers.)

    But, my question is, if Alioto’s ruling stands, could someone use that same ruling to successfully challenge Congress’s jurisdiction on federalism grounds? That would be a nice second Supreme Court action that could have even broader effects than the one-off reversal of Roe.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    , @bomag
  103. EdwardM says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    It’s true that “professional” graduate programs provide a lot of revenue for universities. Not just law, medicine, and business, but nowadays there are countless “professional masters” degrees, terminal degrees with a lot of foreign students and mid-career students, some sponsored by their government and/or an employer respectively. One example from Cornell:

    Our one-year MPS [Master of Professional Studies] program in Applied Statistics readies students for careers in fields where modern data analysis skills are highly coveted.

    Often these, probably including the example above (Cornell has dozens of MPS programs), don’t even require the university to create any new classes — just appoint a professor as director, get a secretary and a web site, and cross-list some part of the existing course catalog and voila, a new professional masters degree. Almost pure profit.

    • Replies: @Alden
  104. Thomm says:

    The single most important thing lawyers do — write contracts — is a sort of late medieval form of computer programming. You need to understand the specifications and perceive what your contract will cause to happen and what could go wrong. As in computer coding, IQ is very valuable in contract coding.

    All true, but this applies equally to gender, and the differing widths of the bell curve across male vs. female IQs is found here.

    To the extent that a non-quant person of 130+ IQ tends to gravitate to a profession, it is law. The more introverted among those do a lot of writing. The complex cause-and-effect modeling that a contract lawyer has to do is a very male trait. Women tend to be very poor at thinking more than one step ahead (see : ‘Defund the police’; even among the woke left, the only people calling for that were women).

    Hence, contract lawyers of any quality are going to be about 98% male, despite the 52%+ female enrollment in top JD programs.

  105. @guest007

    guest007, take the time to search graduation rates at HBCUs, none in single digits but close.

    • Replies: @guest007
  106. Kylie says:
    @Mike Tre

    You could have warned us.

    No, really.

    • LOL: Mike Tre
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    , @Mike Tre
  107. @Almost Missouri

    Almost Missouri, thank you for a very good reply. I can’t argue with anything you said. Stay safe.

  108. @AnotherDad

    AD, thank you. Great comment.

  109. Mr. Anon says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I’ve no objection to lawyers per se (to use a legalistic term). I’ve hired a few in my time, just for routine stuff, nothing that was confrontational.

    It’s fun to imagine a World without lawyers but, to be honest, I don’t think it would be a better World.
    Your lawyer is always a good guy and the other guy’s lawyer is a prick. Of course, if the other guy’s lawyer were yours, he’d be the good guy. Or maybe he’d still be a prick, but he’d be your prick. When you need a lawyer, you need a good lawyer.

    I’d like to know that some standards were still in place to weed out the real duds. But, I guess it’s always “caveat emptor”. And once all the lawyers become activist commissars, as the current crop of woke little monsters in academia seem intent on doing, the whole system will break down anyway.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Paul Mendez
  110. lavoisier says:
    @Jack D

    My ancestors never owned any black slaves, and perhaps your ancestors didn’t either. But Jews living in America on a relative basis were far more likely to own slaves than were the non-Jewish population. And far more likely to be involved financially in the slave trade.

  111. Jack D says:
    @J.Ross

    Here is an explanation of serfdom in various parts of the Ukraine at various times. It is rather complicated but the peasants were bound by law to their plots of land, which were owned by the lord and the peasant also had to do a certain amount of obligatory labor for the lord’s benefit. You’ll notice that in this whole long winded explanation the word “Jew” doesn’t appear. Serfdom was between the lords and the peasants and Jews played no part in it. Over on the Russian side, there were NO Jews outside the Pale and if anything Russian serfdom was even worse (for the serfs).

    http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CS%5CE%5CSerfdom.htm#:~:text=Under%20the%20Polish%20system%20of,effectively%20exacted%20was%20often%20arbitrary.

    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Curle
    , @Twinkie
  112. Mr. Anon says:
    @Alden

    And the justices in the Kaiser case also found that a steel mill foreman need not have a high school diploma nor a GED nor be able to read well enough to read test questions written at 5th grade level. For some strange reason, most American steel companies moved overseas after that decision.

    It’s interesting that the government compels children to go to school, and then compels private employers to ignore the efficacy (or lack thereof) of that same schooling.

    Your comment on the steel mills was interesting. I don’t imagine the court-ordered dissolution of employment standards was the only reason for the off-shoring of American industry, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find that it was one of the reasons.

    • Replies: @Alden
  113. Mr. Anon says:
    @AnotherDad

    Note, they didn’t have any objection to all the testing–SAT, LSAT, Bar Exams–to get to be a lawyer. See being a lawyer takes smarts. Operating a power plant, that just takes bodies. And these lawyers–not the management at Duke Power–know, because they are certified really smart people.

    The contempt in which the symbolic-manipulator class holds people involved in the actual productive sector of the economy is truly astounding. They do not seem to appreciate that doing anything well requires some smarts, and the smarter the worker, generally, the better the work.

  114. @Rooster14

    you can also choose to avoid Negro MDs (all you need to tell a provider is, “I don’t patronize anyone who may have benefited from AA”). Avoiding Negro pilots is trickier, but I’m sure you could get a name and take it from there.

  115. Mr. Anon says:
    @keypusher

    Part of the reason HBD or race realism or whatever you want to call it never caught on was, in the 1970s, when the country was much less diverse than it is now, everything sucked. Crime was high, cars were awful, cities were war zones, everyone was on drugs, inflation was crazy high, unemployment was high, clothes were hideous.

    I’ve seen people say that before, but I don’t believe it. Maybe the 70s really sucked if you lived in a big city like New York or Detroit or Philly. But elsewhere – in the suburbs, for example – it seemed pretty swell. Despite some of the social ills – none of which seem as bad as anything today – I remember it as a time of great optimism and promise.

  116. @Keypusher

    litigation is comparatively easy. Negro lawyers are excellent at document production and asking stupid questions

  117. @fish

    “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers…..

    I like where you’re going with this.

    Not if it’s Door County, Fish:

    Known in other parts of the Midwest as mud shark, lush, ling or eelpout, the fish is called lawyer in Door County because, fishermen say, its tiny heart is located right next to its rear end.

    Savoring Lawyers

    • Thanks: kaganovitch
    • Replies: @fish
  118. Mike Tre says:
    @AnotherDad

    “conservative minoritarian”

    These two things are mutually exclusive.

  119. Alden says:
    @Daniel H

    Roe vs Wade has not been reversed yet. And the affirmative action decisions will not be reversed. Because every sector of the elite government academia media big business small business the churches the Jews want discrimination against Whites to last forever.

    Even if the affirmative decisions were reversed, the only Whites who would benefit will be the ones who have the money for a \$10,000 retainer and \$2,000 a month for the next 5 years. It wasn’t just judges who brought about affirmative action it was the entire elite. Starting with the great hero of the boomers, John Kennedy in March 1961 soon after his inauguration

  120. guest007 says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Six year graduation rates for HBCU according to Collegeresults.org

    Howard University (DC) 63%
    Hampton University (VA) 55%
    Spelman College (Ga) 74%
    Morehouse College (Ga) 55%
    Clark Atlanta (Ga) 40%
    Grambling State Univ (La) 35%
    Alcorn State Univ (Al) 33%
    Prairie View A&M (Tx) 35%
    Jackson St (Ms) 34%
    South Carolina St Univ 36%
    Univ. of Maryland -East S 38%
    North Carolina A&T 43%
    Florida A&M 48%
    Delaware St Univ 36%

    Those graduation rates are equal or higher to whiter universities such as Youngstown State, Wright State, Austin Peay IUPU-FW, or Idaho State.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  121. Alden says:
    @Adept

    The reason the car’s owner rather than the employer of the victim is workmen’s compensation law. If an employer has workmen’s compensation to cover employees injuries and deaths, the employer can only be sued for the Wcom amounts. Back more than 100 years ago when Wcom insurance became mandatory, the business lobby made sure of that. There’s other problems.

    An injured employee cannot use his own medical insurance for work related injuries. Nor can he pay out of pocket. And can’t get treatment unless the treatment is authorized by the Wcom insurance companies. Which takes not only authorizations by the Wcom insurance company drs but by a Wcom hearing officer. And it can take years and years.

    Realistically, I doubt the insurance of the owner of the car will cover up to 15 million.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  122. @bomag

    In the hard sciences, many doctoral and post-doctoral students are similar to apprentices. They toil for years at low wages on some professor’s project. By the time their careers have progressed to the point where they can get funding for research of their own, they’re near middle aged with family and mortgage. Not only can they not take as many risks, but intellectually they have already become set in what they believe.

    • Replies: @bomag
  123. Wilkey says:
    @Rob

    Someone here mentioned the Chinese one-child policy. A two-child policy would have been not-insane. The fact that they could not predict the medium-run problems of halving each generation is amazing.

    A Communist government not thinking through consequences of its policies. What a shock.

    Great comment, though.

  124. Mike Tre says:
    @Jack D

    Reposting this since it looks like Steve is going to let it waste away in moderation:

    (Redacted) that. My Irish ancestors came over between 1880 and 1900, after their ancestors were the subject of about 800 years of English subjugation, to the point that their entire language was made extinct. No one in my line ever owned a slave of any kind, and as far as I know, there aren’t any Irish founded “civil rights” groups advocating “justice” for the Americanized negro, as is the case with (((you people.)))

    Jewish movie makers and record producers are the people who dragged the negro into the center of American cultural relevance, and Jewish pornographic smut peddlers are the ones who projected their own degenerate fantasies of interracial black male/white woman miscegenation into what now infects every corner of media advertising and film.

    No group in the entire world has done more to undeservedly promote the advancement of the negro than the Jews. Suck on that, buddy.

  125. Wilkey says:
    @Jack D

    C’mon now. We needed them to build this country. Without their contributions the United States would be awful – something like Australia, or Canada…

  126. Alden says:
    @AceDeuce

    I’ve been waiting since 1973 Griggs decision. Hasn’t happened and won’t happen. The White leadership is determined to destroy us. In the early 1980s the San Francisco police department discovered so many black applicants could not read the questions and answers on the written exam. Could not read.

    So the department devised an aural exam. A recording read out the questions and answers. Blacks still flunked. There was a New York City police sergeants exam. For a solid year all black and Hispanic applicants were tutored 3 times a week for the exam. Not one not one of the hundreds of the blacks and Hispanics who took the written exam passed.

    Only reason there aren’t more idiot black cops is that so many have criminal records. And occasionally I read that minorities with “ minor” felonies should become police.

    Whites did nothing for the 61 years since Kennedy’s affirmative action executive order. Whites are doing nothing now. Conservatives have just 3 causes. 1 Roe vs Wade. 2 Benefits for big and minority owned business 3 low wages.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  127. @Adept

    In another time and place, such a lawsuit wouldn’t even be contemplated much less filed. The attorney just hopes to get it past a lazy, stupid trial judge and get it in front of a lazy, stupid jury, and the insurance company will toss some money at him.

    Note the framing too:

    The attorney also said the dealership cannot be sued because of a legal standard preventing an employee from suing their boss for negligence

    I bet the young j-school grad interviewing Ellis Island-American David Femminineo in goggle-eyed amazement has never even heard of worker’s comp.

    Law, like medicine, has followed the trajectory from guild to profession to business to industry. The tort system that was implemented so Farmer Moggott could sue the local hunt for the damage to his cabbage patch is an archaic throwback in the administrative, managerial State.

  128. Art Deco says:
    @Mr. Anon

    – I remember it as a time of great optimism and promise.

    You were in some strange bubble.

  129. @SunBakedSuburb

    Few would succeed in a profession wherein they had to generate new approaches and ideas on a daily basis.

    In every profession, there are a very few innovators and a whole lot of process-implementers. For every surgeon inventing a new procedure there are hundreds content to do the old procedure fast and well, as many times a day as possible. For every engineer coming up with new ways to make bridges faster, cheaper and safer, there are hundreds content to build bridges that don’t fall down by using tried-and-true methods.

  130. @Mr. Anon

    I’d like to know that some standards were still in place to weed out the real duds

    I knew a guy who was briefly a criminal defense lawyer and hated it. He joked he was the world’s worst lawyer. He didn’t bother to read his clients’ files. Just went to the jail a day or two before trial and convinced them to take the plea offer.

    Even lowlife scum deserve better than that.

  131. @Alden

    You can afford a comp system or you can afford a tort system; you can’t afford both.

    You’re about half-right on workers comp, and not nearly right enough to prove your point.

  132. Thomm says:
    @Twinkie

    Interesting data.

    But remember that Twinkie only posted this data because it portrays Asians as better than whites in all of the five datasets Twinkie listed. Even though the apparent topic of discussion is blacks.

    If Asians did not outperform whites in every single metric in this particular dataset, Twinkie would not have posted it at all.

    In terms of bar passage rates, Asians actually underperform whites :

    Among white men and women taking the bar exam for the first time, 88% passed. By comparison, 66% of Black first-time test-takers passed, 76% of Hispanics, 78% of Hawaiians, 78% of Native Americans and 80% of Asians.

    https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2021/07/bar-passage-rates/

    This is all the more surprising since JD grads are usually 2nd-generation of later Asian-Americans, rather than immigrant Asians, unlike in say, STEM graduate degree programs or MBA programs. So their English is very Americanized, and cannot possibly be a barrier.

    In fact, the spread of 66% for the lowest group and 88% for the highest group is smaller than one might expect.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  133. Alden says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Steel making is a very complicated process. And it’s incredibly dangerous. So it needs skilled foremen. Plus they have to be able to read and write memos in those days emails now. And fill out the payroll sheets and schedule overtime and the Kaiser ruling found that the requirement of a high school diploma and ability to read and write was discriminatory.

    I noticed at the time that the Griggs and Kaiser decisions coincided with the massive rush to move manufacturing and other businesses overseas.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    , @Truth
  134. Alden says:
    @Jack D

    Interesting fact about pre civil war American Jews and blacks. Back in the mid 1790s the French revolutionary government invaded all the German lands on the northern border. Massive disruptions ensued for the next 20 years. And many Germans fled.

    2 Jewish brothers named Lehman fled and arrived in New Orleans in 1800. And set up the same business they’d had in Germany. A brokerage firm. It soon became a slave brokerage firm. And the second largest slave brokerage firm in the country.

    After the civil war the company moved to NYC. And Lehman Bros continued till the financial crash in 2008.

    • Replies: @Curle
  135. keypusher says:
    @J.Ross

    How many times are hamsters like Steve going to let themselves be COMPLETELY lied to by the perpendicular-to-reality lyingpress? Pretty much from years before Trump was elected to the present, the smartest way to handle mainstream media claims was to assume the opposite.

    I’m not sure where you are going with this.

    Friedman says the Ukrainians are kicking Russia’s ass, and the war is going horribly for Putin, who is running out of options for some kind of face-saving success, or even a face-saving off-ramp. On top of everything else, the Chinese aren’t really helping Putin.

    But Friedman is worried that lower level people in government are bragging too much about the US role in killing Russian generals and sinking Russian ships. Putin might get desperate enough to escalate in some terrible way.

    My bottom line echoes my top line — and I can’t underscore it enough: We need to stick as tightly as possible to our original limited and clearly defined aim of helping Ukraine expel Russian forces as much as possible or negotiate for their withdrawal whenever Ukraine’s leaders feel the time is right.

    But we are dealing with some incredibly unstable elements, particularly a politically wounded Putin. Boasting about killing his generals and sinking his ships, or falling in love with Ukraine in ways that will get us enmeshed there forever, is the height of folly.

    However, it doesn’t get any more mainstream than Tom Friedman. He a fully paid up member of the lyingpress if anyone is.

    So Steve’s supposed to assume the opposite of what he says. Right?

    So Steve should recommend a much deeper commitment to Ukraine, and full-fledged NATO involvement to kick the Russians all the way back to Moscow, if not beyond.

    Or, in the alternative, Russia is really secretly kicking Ukraine’s ass, and Putin will finally get a fire lit under that famous cauldron, and the Ukrainian army is going to disintegrate, or has been destroyed already, and Zelensky is finally going to fill his suitcase with gold and head to Tel Aviv.

    Right? But which is it?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  136. bomag says:
    @Paul Mendez

    Agree.

    They can go gov’t, industry.

    Academia does have a non-monetary allure.

  137. Curle says:
    @Adept

    “ So in reality, the owner is going to be held responsible, but the dealership’s insurance company is paying,”

    Something sounds off here.

    • Agree: bomag
  138. Thomm says:
    @Alden

    This type of comment (a good comment, btw) proves what many of us know but what the Aldens don’t admit, which is that they are an old married couple who both post under ‘Alden’ since they use the same PC or at least the same IP address.

    Comments like this one above (like many others) are clearly from Mr. Alden. Just like the ones where he describes his experience as a parole officer in SF in 1968. That is obviously a man.

    Comments that screech about the ‘MEN OF UNZ’ without writing anything else of value are by Mrs. Alden.

    Many readers have already figured this out, but in case this was not obvious to newcomers, now you know.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  139. Curle says:
    @Jack D

    The Jewish Wall.

    “ The serfdom system developed within a characteristic social structure. Already at the turn of the 16th century, the nobility constituted 10% of the Commonwealth’s population. At the end of the 18th century the population composition was the following: Nobility – 9% (to compare in France it was 0.7%, while in England 3%), Bourgeois – 16%, Peasants – 75%, Clergy – 0.3%. Twenty-five percent of the nobility were ethnic Poles, over 75% of the bourgeois were Jews.20

    The general conclusion of this data is the following: an ethnic Pole was either a peasant or a nobleman (rarely a city dweller). “In Poland two, near-nations appeared – nobles and peasants, and between them there was a Jewish wall.”21 Ethnic unity did not hence translate into a moral or social unity.

    https://www.eurozine.com/a-history-of-polish-serfdom/

  140. @EdwardM

    The Dems are trying to “codify Roe” in a federal law. It seems odd to give a positive right to abortion as a federal matter, but I guess they could call it a civil right and there are plenty of other examples of this.

    The American cosmopolitan was always in the tank when it comes to “State’s Rights” when it came to assault weapon bans, handguns bans, waiting periods under the aegis of “it’s just regulation” but when it comes to abortion, suddenly the love of “State’s Rights” evaporates faster than than water on hot asphalt.

    Show some damn consistancy, thank you.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  141. @Kylie

    You have been warned:

    [MORE]

    • LOL: Kylie
  142. anonymous[585] • Disclaimer says:
    @JimB

    God help us if medical schools scrap the MCAT.

    Good news: Even if that happens, there is still a 3-step United States Medical Licensing Exam you must pass to get a state-issued medical license anywhere in the US.
    And since you take Step 1 during med school, it acts as the “MCAT” for selection into residency, where you learn your specialty. (“Specialty” meaning internal medicine, general surgery, family med, etc.)
    So, a weed-out and a stratifier.

    Bad news: They just made Step 1 of the USMLE pass-fail a few years ago.

    Good news: Step 2 and 3 are still graded…

    Bad news: …for now.

  143. Marcus P says:

    The next step is do away with the bar exam. I heard that proposed years ago by a law school graduate who flunked it 3 times.

  144. @guest007

    guest007, you are better than this. You cherry picked. There are 18 HBCUs with graduation rates of 30% or less. That means 2/3 don’t graduate in six years. We’re good. Stay safe.

    • Replies: @guest007
  145. Mike Tre says:
    @Kylie

    Yeah, I’m a bad friend.

  146. bomag says:
    @keypusher

    Swerve … into … fallacy.

    …in the 1970s, when the country was much less diverse than it is now, everything sucked.

    Two separate things. I suspect the “70s would not have been better with today’s personnel profile.

    And over the following decades, as the country got much more diverse, almost everything got much better.

    In spite of, not because of.

    • Replies: @Keypusher
  147. Anonymous[941] • Disclaimer says:
    @Gordo

    Separation is the solution.

    Do you mean segregation?

    • Replies: @Gordo
  148. Anon[173] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rob

    Someone here mentioned the Chinese one-child policy. A two-child policy would have been not-insane. The fact that they could not predict the medium-run problems of halving each generation is amazing.

    One-child policy is not insane at all. China is terribly overpopulated. Even with the one child policy, it’s population swelled from 1 billion to 1.5 billion.

    Their inability to realize that their daughters are as related to them as their sons are is also fascinating.

    Sons have more potential.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Rob
  149. @Mr. Anon

    Right!

    We didn’t lock the doors of our houses, and we didn’t lock the doors of our cars (if someone left his lights on, we’d just open the door and turn them off for him). Gas was high in real dollars, but a family with more than one kid could still live a middle-class lifestyle on one income.

    Cars were not as safe and didn’t last as long but were a whole lot more fun (when you could feed ’em). Also, anyone slightly mechanically inclined could actually fix them.

    I know half the kids in high school smoked pot in the parking lot before school, but adults and the kids were much more functional than the fragile snowflakes of today. Clothing may have looked stupid in hindsight, but who the hell cares about that anyway? At least if you went to the pool for the first time of the season, your Mom could just cut your jeans or corduroys off above the knees, and you jumped in.

    Unemployment and inflation were high for a few years, but the employment there was, was at good wages. There was an end in sight, as the US was still the manufacturing powerhouse of the world. At this point inflation is just as bad (don’t believe the BLS numbers – the last couple of decades of 1-2% were actually at 4-5%- that compounds QUICKLY!) and their ain’t no Paul Volckering our way out of it this time around.*

    Oh, and you could joke about any damn thing you wanted to.

    Lastly, there wasn’t this internet around to make people think they knew all about some certain subject or piece of history when they really don’t know squat about it. 17%? Nigga’ ,Fed Chairman, please!

    .

    * If interest rates were let to rise to even a natural rate of 7% or so, the interest payments would be fully 1/2 of Feral Gov’t expenditures, but also any serious increase would result in the stock market tanking.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  150. Anonymous[707] • Disclaimer says:
    @keypusher

    And over the following decades, as the country got much more diverse, almost everything got much better. Crime dropped, cars got better, cities got better, drug abuse got rarer or at least more tasteful, inflation disappeared, unemployment dropped, even clothes weren’t so bad. People really didn’t see much reason to dislike diversity, and they saw lots of reasons to like it.

    Did diversity cause these things?

  151. anon[172] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    I got a better place for them. ATLANTIS!

  152. Anonymous[172] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    I got a better place for them. ATLANTIS!

  153. J.Ross says:
    @keypusher

    They are starting to prepare people for what’s coming. They cannot say what is happening or admit to any of their mistakes, but they are introducing notes of caution which would have been “Russian propaganda” at the beginning and which ought not to be happening now. What we are seeing in the coverage is worst case scenario media bias, where completely blind bigotry distorts even those things which turn out to be semi-true.

    • Replies: @keypusher
  154. @Jack D

    YOUR ancestors are the ones who literally owned blacks, not mine.

    You conveniently forget Judah Benjamin, Levi Strauss, and I’m sure others. And regardless of who brought them here long ago, the insane effort of our time to set blacks above the law has been led by Jewish activists and Jewish organizations.

    • Replies: @rebel yell
  155. @rebel yell

    Correction – Lehman brothers, not Levi Strauss.

  156. J.Ross says:
    @Anon

    China wasn’t overpopulated, it was infrastructurally under-served, and the reason it was infrastructurally under-served is consistently catastrophic native government. Had China been properly colonized it would have been much better off. As it was, everyone in the early 20th century civil war was trying to get into those tiny patches of China that were run by Europeans. Numerous efforts were made in this period, largely by churches, to help China develop or to build schools. They were burnt down or stolen by short-sighted Chinese, and this is before the Commies made a policy of killing smart and cultured people.

  157. J.Ross says:
    @Truth

    Right, and the only time the lyingpress acknowledged the Fentanyl slaughter was when plagiarist and Indian nobleman Fareed Zakaria crowed triumphantly about it.

  158. Anon[749] • Disclaimer says:

    This is an example of institutional capture. The vast majority of members of the American Bar Association do not support measures like this. But the ABA functions in the same way as nonprofit organization in how it hires people, and the members who run for various boards are not from the class of successful attorneys, who don’t have free time for stuff like that.

  159. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    LOL. YOUR ancestors are the ones who literally owned blacks, not mine.

    I am usually not one to tone-police around here, but this strikes me as barely veiled malice and viciousness.

    And let’s not forget the fact that you don’t know any such thing to be true. You are simply engaging in a broad-brush stereotype – “Hmmm, white goy, must have had a slave owner ancestor!”

    His family hails from Iowa. That region of the country was heavily abolitionist. While there were draft riots going on in the East, many young men from the upper Midwest volunteered in droves and died fighting to abolish slavery during the Civil War.

    Meanwhile European Jews profited heavily from slavery. For example, Dutch Jews were a tiny fraction on the Dutch population, but controlled about one-fifth of the Dutch West Indies trans-Atlantic trade, including slavery, and shipped and owned thousands of Jews in the Dutch Americas. They were even given dispensation by the Dutch colonial authorities, so they could work their slaves on Sunday (Christian slave owners could not).

    So you leveling that charge of “Slave owner descendant!” at AnotherDad, aside from being vicious, strikes me as a blood-libel projection.

    • Agree: Legba
    • Thanks: Charon
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @Jack D
    , @Johann Ricke
  160. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    You’ll notice that in this whole long winded explanation the word “Jew” doesn’t appear. Serfdom was between the lords and the peasants and Jews played no part in it.

    Nice way to elide a rather inconvenient fact:

    Jews played an outsized role in tax-farming (and loan-sharking) in Eastern Europe (which they also did since at least the time of the Roman Empire – “publicans” ring a bell?). In return for providing steady revenues and loans to the aristocracy in Eastern Europe, Jews mercilessly tax-farmed the peasantry as anything over the agreed payments to the lords were to be the profits for the tax-farmers. That was one of the major reasons why Jews were often hated and loathed by the peasantry in Eastern Europe, a sentiment that long survived to the time period of the Holocaust.

    Jews may not have literally enslaved or enserfed peasants in Eastern Europe, but they “middle-manned” the Eastern European peasantry on behalf of the ruling elites* and immiserated and extorted the lower orders and earned much ill-will and hatred.

    *Ever hear the term Hofjude?

  161. Legba says:

    Then we get rid of the bar exam. You make it sound like such a big deal.

  162. Twinkie says:
    @Twinkie

    shipped and owned thousands of Jews in the Dutch Americas.

    Sorry, not Jews, but African slaves.

  163. bomag says:
    @EdwardM

    …could someone use that same ruling to successfully challenge Congress’s jurisdiction on federalism grounds?

    One can always hope.

    But most of what Congress does is hand out money. I doubt much will change on that front.

    But we are running out of money that has any value, so power could be swinging back to the states. If anyone is still bothering with courts in our bold future.

  164. Anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    Jews may not have literally enslaved or enserfed peasants in Eastern Europe,

    Have you read anything about the Radhanites?

  165. Mr. Anon says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Clothing may have looked stupid in hindsight, but who the hell cares about that anyway?

    Sure, bell-bottoms, polyester leisure suits and double-wide ties look funny now. But compared to what? The basket-ball shorts and sweat-shirts that so many people wear today – what you might call the “Idiocracy Style”?. Look (or, rather, try not to) at all the people with muffin-top guts hanging out over their pants. And at least the people then didn’t have neck-tattoos, ear guages, or nose-rings; there weren’t armies of people walking around looking like carnival freaks.

    • Replies: @Curle
  166. @Keypusher

    Most big firms make more money on corporate (transactional/contract centered) than litigation (trial and brief-based). At Sullivan & Cromwell where I started it was an unspoken rule that the managing partner would be a corporate attorney.

    Corporate tends to be more limited in ripple effects to the matter at bar. Litigation tends to have more society wide ripple effects, often pernicious.

  167. Mr. Anon says:
    @Joe Stalin

    Show some damn consistancy, thank you.

    They are consistent. They want what they want and don’t care how they get it.

  168. @Twinkie

    Ever hear the term Hofjude?

    Were court Jews tax farmers? I thought they tended to be bankers/financiers.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  169. @Alden

    So the department devised an aural exam. A recording read out the questions and answers. Blacks still flunked

    But to compensate they had better vibes.

  170. Twinkie says:
    @kaganovitch

    Were court Jews tax farmers? I thought they tended to be bankers/financiers.

    The Hofjude eventually came to mean the court Jews of powerful lords and kings (including absolute monarches) who acted as their financiers, but earlier on were moneylenders and tax farmers.

    In broad terms, such Jews performed “middleman” functions for the aristocracy while enjoying the protection of the latter. As such, they had wealth and relatively high status (esp. in court intrigues), but were despised for their lack of martial valor and independent military and political status and depended entirely on the goodwill of their patrons for survival and prosperity.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  171. angmoh says:

    Contract language interpretation and drafting software already exists and, with recent advances published by Google etc, looks like it’s only going to get better. The whole AI/ML revolution is going to drive a truck through this entire debate.

    Tomorrow’s lawyers may well score less well on IQ tests – but will it matter?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  172. Coemgen says:

    The single most important thing lawyers do — write contracts — is a sort of late medieval form of computer programming.

    It’s amazing that computer models of legal systems are not commonplace.

    Computer modeling of legal systems could be an extremely useful tool.

    I wonder if these models are commonplace but they’re being selection biased out of the public eye (e.g., modeling could be too easily proven to be flawed or, modeling could be better than would be politically acceptable).

  173. Keypusher says:
    @bomag

    It doesn’t matter. I didn’t say things got better because of diversity. I said things got better during a time of increasing diversity. Whether it was despite of or because of, that made it hard to argue that increasing diversity was bad.

    I also said we’re seeing ideological downsides to diversity now. But with the population under 40 in the USA majority-minority, a diverse future is baked in.

    • Replies: @bomag
  174. guest007 says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Then please list them with a cite. I tried to ignore the tiny private HBCUs that no one has heard of. One of the aspects of all of the college rating systems is that universities actually have to think about their graduation rates and not have weedout classes or just run students off.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  175. @Thomm

    If there is more than one Alden, do they have different prose styles?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @Kylie
  176. Gordo says:
    @Anonymous

    Not segregation like apartheid, separate polities.

  177. quewin says:
    @Jack D

    Your mask has slipped more and more often these past few months.

  178. keypusher says:
    @J.Ross

    They are starting to prepare people for what’s coming.

    You mean, Russia losing? Shouldn’t Putin be doing that? Or thermonuclear war? Because in that case this article is not doing its job.

    They cannot say what is happening or admit to any of their mistakes, but they are introducing notes of caution which would have been “Russian propaganda” at the beginning and which ought not to be happening now.

    But the article does claim to say what is happening — Russians losing — and identifies specific American mistakes, namely reckless bragging and no clear endgame. “The Russian army is much weaker than we thought, the Ukrainians are beating them, and we need to not be reckless because Putin is getting desperate” doesn’t sound like Russian propaganda to me.

    I don’t think you read the article very carefully. You noticed that it was less than triumphalist in tone, and that made you happy, but you didn’t pay attention to its substance.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  179. Jack D says:
    @Twinkie

    I thought that his idea that in the coming (imaginary) divorce between Another Dad and his selected group of Founding Stock people and everyone else, it was rather presumptuous of him to say that that the Jews would have to take the blacks with them after the breakup. American blacks (putting aside the huge # who have come recently) are about as Founding Stock as you get. In the spirit of compromise, I’ll take all the Igbos but AD has to take all the ADOS blacks.

    As I said before, he was acting like a woman who adopts a pitbull and then when the marriage breaks up she expects her spouse to take him. But she gets to keep the pickup truck. He tried to slide that one in and I called him on his BS. In his head, everything good in America belongs to his people and everything bad gets pinned on the Jews.

    • Replies: @AceDeuce
    , @Twinkie
  180. Hibernian says:
    @Twinkie

    …“publicans” ring a bell?).

    Not to mention the Apotle Matthew.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  181. Hibernian says:
    @angmoh

    Engineering is sofware city but someone has to know what software applies to what situations and look at results spit out by the software with a skeptical eye.

  182. Charon says:
    @TTSSYF

    Devolution to more local authority? ‘Tis a capital fantasy, sir, and I salute you for entertaining it.

  183. Hibernian says:
    @Steve Sailer

    They both seem to have Hemingwayesque rapid fire journalistic writing styles. Not unlikely for a couple married maybe 50 years. If this theory is true it was really cold when Alden told me, about 4 years ago, “I am not a man,” but didn’t seem to get really offended when I said something like “You’re posts seem to be from a somewhat nerdish straight man.” There had not been any “Men of Unz” posts at that time, going back to when I began participating.

    Maybe all of the Alden posts are by Mr. Alden.

    I don’t think it’s fair to assume that liberal SF wouldn’t hire a woman probation officer in the late ’60s or that she wouldn’t last long if they did.

    I also don’t think it’s fair to assume that an early Baby Boom woman wouldn’t know anything about the steel industry.

  184. Jack D says:
    @Twinkie

    As such, they had wealth and relatively high status

    You are talking about a very early period when Jews were few in number. Jews in the 18th & 19th century experienced a huge population explosion in E. Europe and far outgrew their ecological niche. Although Poland had an exceptionally large “aristocracy”, there is only so much demand for Hofjuden. If every Hofjude was having 8 or 10 kids, it doesn’t take too many generations of this before the place is just full of Jews and only a small % of them are going to find employment as Hofjuden. By the time you get to the period where my family memory begins, there are zero Hofjuden in sight. There are fisherman and shoemakers and tailors and blacksmiths, etc., all as poor as can be. The very opposite of wealth and status. People were not getting on the boat to Ellis Island because they were wealthy and had high status.

    However, Jews had the genetic makeup to thrive in America. Somewhere in their ancestry a couple of hundred years ago was a very clever tax farmer (and BTW, it was considered prestigious in the Jewish community to marry your daughters off to learned rabbis) and when his descendants got to America they had the makings of very clever tax lawyers. It was sort of the opposite of “from shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations”.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    , @Twinkie
  185. Curle says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Walk through Nashville airport you don’t see that stuff either.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  186. Neuday says:
    @Meretricious

    What’s Latin for “Bix Nood”?

  187. Truth says:
    @Alden

    I noticed at the time that the Griggs and Kaiser decisions coincided with the massive rush to move manufacturing and other businesses overseas.

    Yes, because the education systems in China, India, Turkey and Ukraine were world class 30 years ago.

    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-top-10-steel-producing-countries-in-the-world.html

  188. @Twinkie

    His family hails from Iowa. That region of the country was heavily abolitionist. While there were draft riots going on in the East, many young men from the upper Midwest volunteered in droves and died fighting to abolish slavery during the Civil War.

    The thinking is that if Jews are collectively responsible for the policies of the Polish aristocracy, then Christians are equally liable for the institution of black slavery taken up by the Christian elites in the Americas.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  189. @guest007

    guest, actually the United Negro College Fund has a list of HBCUs and their graduation rates. If we were talking about Jesuit Colleges would we only talk about the nationally known,like Boston College, and ignore lesser knowns like John Carroll, Canisus and Fairfield. I was talking about the colleges and universities known as HBCUs. We are still good.

    • Replies: @guest007
  190. @Jack D

    “very clever tax lawyers”

    The most clever tax lawyers work for the DC law firms that are the tax bill lobbyists.

    They write their own tax loopholes for their wealthy clients.

    It is like rigging a slot machine so you get to pick who hits the jackpot.

  191. Mr. Anon says:
    @Curle

    Walk through Nashville airport you don’t see that stuff either.

    I’m familiar with the Southeast. That stuff is there too.

  192. bomag says:
    @Keypusher

    Whether it was despite of or because of, that made it hard to argue that increasing diversity was bad.

    Well, yeah, but that doesn’t mean the argument was wrong. The other side should understand that things could have been even better.

    …a diverse future is baked in.

    Yes, also. But we can at least stop the bleeding and quit pushing people out of jobs and responsible positions just to mollify the religion of diversity.

  193. Truth says:
    @AKINDLE

    Well all that is up for debate, but One White Criminal (actually thousands of them) do explain why…”Whul, a black guy killed a white guy four yearz ago…WHY IZ THIS STORY STULL NOT ON THE NEWS EVERY-DAYYY?!?!”

    You so called “high-IQ” morons can not understand economies of scale.

  194. AceDeuce says:
    @Jack D

    American blacks (putting aside the huge # who have come recently) are about as Founding Stock as you get.

    That has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read.

  195. Keypusher says:
    @AKINDLE

    Your whole evil race belongs in Africa or hell.

    WTF? That is no way to talk about any group of human beings.

    Also, damn them for packing themselves like sardines onto slave ships and then auctioning themselves off, I guess.

  196. Rob says:
    @J.Ross

    I haven’t heard that Sapir-Worf problem about Africa, but i would love to. What’s the profs name?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @J.Ross
    , @res
  197. Rob says:
    @Anon

    Sons might have more “potential” in some sense, but genetically, daughters are a safer bet. Not only that, but you won’t have grandsons unless your son can get married to a woman. There’s also the evolutionary matter that every kid gets half your chromosomes, and, on a chromosomal basis*, all your children are equally related to you.

    If your village has an excess of sons, you do better genetically by having daughters. I believe Fisher worked this out in the twenties. Hamilton followed up on organisms with extraordinary sex ratios called “Extraordinary Sex Ratios.” I suppose all your excess sons can raid a neighboring village and carry off the women. When your nation would disappear if everyone followed their preferences, one might wonder if those preferences are reasonable.

    *On a DNA basis, men are slightly more related to their daughters because the X chromosome has so many more genes. Women are equally related to daughters and sons.

  198. Rob says:
    @J.Ross

    Also, the one-child policy might be a madness attributable to Mao, but the government kept it for decades. Even if no Chinese would say to his boss that the policy is insane, that shows a difference with white psychology. If someone did tell his boss, but the boss wouldn’t hear of it, screaming, “you no trust ancestor! You bad communist!” that too is a difference from white psychology.

    Perhaps it’s tunnel vision, perhaps it’s risk-aversiveness, possibly it’s obedience to authority, but it definitely indicates a difference from whites.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  199. Alden says:
    @keypusher

    All those things you mentioned are very true. But steel making is a very complicated and very dangerous process. Computers monitor the temperature of the cauldrons now. But back in 1979 it was still the workers.

    It’s no coincidence that American manufacturing moved over seas after Griggs and Kaiser. The average black IQ is 85. 40 percent have IQs under 80. That’s the black IQ manufacturing was supposed to draw on for blue collar jobs. There’s also the black tendency to disappear from wherever they’re supposed to be, endlessly gossip and chat and not pay attention. And other habits if blacks in the workplace. In an office the continual arguing gossiping goofing off is irritating. But in non office jobs it is dangerous. Ever wondered why there are so few black iron workers or electricians?

    I knew the young adult son of one of men who founded one of the first BASA contractors back in the 1859s when Sikicin Valkdy began. I asked him what his dad’s company was doing about affirmative action. He answered we hire Chinese and Japanese He meant Americans

    • Replies: @Alden
  200. Alden says:
    @EdwardM

    There are also masters and even PHDs in “ social justice entrepreneurship “. AKA grant hustling. I’ve seen ADs for those programs.

  201. Alden says:
    @Alden

    Typos NASA 1950s obviously when NASA set up in Mountain View Ca

  202. J.Ross says:
    @keypusher

    If you’re doing this much work on a Tom Friedman piece, you’re wrong.

  203. J.Ross says:
    @Rob

    I’m looking for it. It was pretty famous in 2016 but since then has been memory holed (I download everything and assume incoming censorship, so I don’t keep great track of where stuff “was”). The guy is a philosophy professor who taught in Africa and accidentally discovered the relation of precision and language. I’ll post it if I can find it but here are a few highlights:
    — A student asks why, if he speaks English, does he have an English dictionary? He explains that he doesn’t know all the words in English. He returns: do you know all the words in your language? She answers yes, in fact, everyone does. He realizes that, because the language has no written form, this must be the case.
    — He asks various Africans about precision in their languages and finds that it doesn’t exist: you can say that there are or are no coconuts up in the trees, but you cannot say that there is one coconut and not more, or that it is halfway up.
    — He finds that many white concepts are badly translated into African languages: one uses something about “my feet are bound with rope” to mean “I promise,” but it is not understood to represent a promise, it comes back as “I will do my best.”

    • Replies: @Rob
  204. J.Ross says:
    @Rob

    And, as Derb points out, they were consistently like that for longer than almost any white cultural tradition existed.

  205. J.Ross says:
    @Rob

    Here. Bing totally useless, that Australian site Bitch Ute (which normally has an unusable internal search) cooperates this time. This was on YouTube before the crackdown, when, joining the horror of the 2020 election theft, every good site either got pulled or was dramatically edited.



    Video Link

    • Thanks: Rob
  206. Kylie says:
    @Steve Sailer

    For a long time, I thought Alden was just an especially spiteful homosexual male.

    Recently I’ve decided Alden is probably a female with a mood disorder as she tends to veer wildly between hysterical and semi-rational. Her prose style remains much the same.

    I find it hard to believe that a rational Mr. Alden and an hysterical Mrs. Alden both post here under the pseudonym “Alden”. If there is such a couple, surely Mr. Alden is too exhausted from dealing with his bitter half’s hysterics to comment here, although alternately, I can imagine him with an energy born of desperation plotting her demise.

  207. Ben Kurtz says:
    @J.Ross

    Really must brush up on my clay pigeon shooting.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  208. Rob says:
    @J.Ross

    I think I read a blog post about that! I did not realize it was legit, peer-reviewed research. I’ve noticed Google does not work nearly as well as it used to, but I thought it was just me.

    Seems like there’s an open niche for a good search engine. I’m so old that I remember when there were a bunch of search engines. There were even meta-search engines. I didn’t think there’d be one that was really good but decided to get really bad because of woke.

    Maybe they didn’t mean for their search utility to decline, but they just hired too many coolie coders? Maybe they just realized there was no need to improve/not decline in utility for searches that don’t return money?

    If there’s one company that realizes a better option can eat a company’s lunch, it should be Google.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  209. J.Ross says:
    @Rob

    Bing is normally really good and Yandex has been better than Google Image for years; it doesn’t do porn but that Swiss one is excellent.

  210. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    However, Jews had the genetic makeup to thrive in America.

    “Fellow whites.”

    Somewhere in their ancestry a couple of hundred years ago was a very clever tax farmer… when his descendants got to America they had the makings of very clever tax lawyers.

    Glad to know that your people no longer directly immiserate poor farmers and oppress the down-trodden.

    No, that might, like, invite wrath and violence from the said down-trodden. Much safer and more money in it to just re-write/work/rent-seek the ever arcane and convoluted tax code.

    Doesn’t stop Jews from crying about pogroms though, does it?

    https://www.sdjewishworld.com/2020/06/10/rioting-in-los-angeles-was-an-anti-jewish-pogrom/

  211. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    In his head, everything good in America belongs to his people and everything bad gets pinned on the Jews.

    That’s just more projection on your part.

    Although AnotherDad seems to favor what some people around here call “Heritage-Americans” (to one of whom I am married, so I guess I “favor” them as well 😉 ), I never got the sense that he rejects all non-“Heritage Americans” from this country. But he seems to loathe those who engage in minoritarianism and reject assimilation into the ways of the said Heritage-Americans. It is a loathing I happen to share.

    Perhaps you might have asked him for clarification instead of baring your fangs and proving him right about minoritarianism. You seem to be going out of your way to increase anti-Jewish sentiments around here. If one were inclined to conspiracy theories, one might even suspect that you were some sort of an anti-Semite trying to rile up bad feelings!

    • Agree: Kylie
  212. Twinkie says:
    @Johann Ricke

    if Jews are collectively responsible for the policies of the Polish aristocracy

    That’s a straw man. I don’t blame “Jack D” for the immiseration and suffering of the Eastern European peasantry. But Jack D certainly seems to blame AnotherDad (or his ancestors) for slavery in America.

    Of course, that’s not saying Jews aren’t overwhelmingly represented in odious professions such as tax farmers and financial frauds (the capital of the worldwide financial fraud is… Tel Aviv per an Israeli newspaper).

    And, sure, the Polish aristocracy might have been a bunch of oppressive bastards (like a lot of elites everywhere), but at least they fought for theirs for life and limb. Diaspora Jews have been “men without chests” per Martin van Creveld (an Israeli military historian) – first to profit and first to flee, as it were. Seen in that regard, I don’t think the globally pervasive ill feelings toward Jews have been irrational.

    And AnotherDad is not wrong about Jews having had a leading hand in what he calls minoritarianism. They are still crying about porgroms and marginalization by Christians in THIS country. I’ve never seen such people – people who rule over others as elites all the while screeching about oppression by others.

    • Replies: @RSDB
  213. Twinkie says:
    @Thomm

    But remember that Twinkie only posted this data because it portrays Asians as better than whites in all of the five datasets Twinkie listed.

    Wow. Another mind-reader.

    Stop with the stupid ad hominem. I have no problem discussing group mean differences wherever the chips may fall: https://www.unz.com/isteve/math-vs-reading-test-score-tilts-internationally/#comment-5329463

    The reason I listed that data from Murray is because 1) it was conveniently available (I made a comment about it when I first read his book and I remembered to look for that old comment) and 2) it represents a sort of a final mismatch. All the other tests are exactly those – tests. Data on professional discipline is about actual practice in real life. Is it a perfect proxy for ability mismatch? No, because it probably has something to do with professional ethics as well as competence.

    In terms of bar passage rates, Asians actually underperform whites

    Yup. And as I discussed once before somewhere around these parts, whites also pass the part II of medical boards at higher rates (the first time passing) than Asians do. Interestingly, the part II of that test is verbal (literally answering questions from test givers in person).

    Since East Asians have higher average visuo-spatial and quantitative IQ components and lower verbal IQ component than Western Europeans, this is not at all surprising.

    However, the American data is somewhat subject to distortions, because 1) Asian immigration to the U.S. has been variously selective and 2) ethnic components of “Asians” have varied tremendously by time period and include not just East Asians, but also Southeast Asians and South Asians with very different home country average IQs and different immigration selectivity. As always, when dealing with stats on “Asians” in America, some caution and careful parsing are warranted.

    • Replies: @CDC27
  214. guest007 says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    The UNCF only covers private HBCUs but does not cover public. In addition, the UNCF does not list the graduation rate of each college. The real definition of HBCU is what the Department of Eduation considers HBCU and that includes more public colleges that the UCNF covers for private schools. In addition, there is also the special category of the state colleges that are majority Latino and also get special programs from the Department of Education.

  215. @Reg Cæsar

    Law and medical school are more akin to trade schools. As G. Gordon Liddy once said, one goes to college/graduate school to be educated whereas one goes to law school / medical school to be trained.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  216. @Prester John

    More than anything else, you go to law school to Learn To Code a contract.

  217. First, get rid of the LSAT to admit more blacks. When they fail the bar, like Kamala did, get rid of the bar exam. When clients hire white and Asian lawyer upon noticing they’re better, mandate hiring black lawyers (oh wait, corporations already do that). When black lawyers don’t perform well enough to demand raises, mandate raises by suing companies and law firms who pay on merit. It’s South African BEE by another name. The hysteria has to stop somewhere

  218. Truth says:

    First, get rid of the LSAT to admit more blacks. When they fail the bar, like Kamala did, get rid of the bar exam. When clients hire white and Asian lawyer upon noticing they’re better, mandate hiring black lawyers (oh wait, corporations already do that). When black lawyers don’t perform well enough to demand raises, mandate raises by suing companies and law firms who pay on merit. It’s South African BEE by another name.

    And then when all that fails, just eliminate the law profession!

    (Hey, wait, I think you’re on to something, Old Sport, you’re a genius.)

  219. @AnotherDad

    Blacks are just not capable of living in western civilization. Years ago, I felt sympathetic to black people because they were, before civil rights legislation, held down to some extent. Now, I just don’t care, and wish they would leave us alone. Too many of them are lazy, don’t want to put any kind of effort into anything, and yet expect everything to be handed to them. They create almost all of their problems, yet nothing is ever their fault. Thirty years ago, you wouldn’t catch me dead saying this: but separation is the only answer.

  220. RSDB says:
    @Twinkie

    You probably know this, but, for those who don’t, “men without chests” is from C.S. Lewis in The Abolition of Man.

    I don’t often give advice to people twice my age, but, if you haven’t read it already, it is very much worth reading and quite short. My parents made me read this and children in general would likely benefit from doing so.

    [MORE]

    By the way, are you familiar with Charles Tilly? I have been starting Cities and the Rise of States in Europe, AD 1000 – 1800 and planning to get to Stories, Identities, and Political Change when I have time. The photo of Subcomandante Marcos on the cover is somewhat offputting, though.

  221. CDC27 says:
    @Twinkie

    whites also pass the part II of medical boards at higher rates (the first time passing) than Asians do. Interestingly, the part II of that test is verbal (literally answering questions from test givers in person).

    Step 2 of the medical boards is all multiple choice, with no verbal component. You may be referring to the now defunct Step 2 CS, in which candidates had to conduct mock clinical exams with actors portraying common clinical scenarios, but that portion of the medical boards is no longer administered as part of the licensing process, and hasn’t been for over 2 years now.

    The Step 2 CS didn’t really test verbal intelligence per say, but was rather a good way to determine if international graduates or ESL candidates could effectively communicate with patients in English, and perform very basic physical exam skills. I think a layman would probably say it was good to have that as part of the medical boards, but it is nevertheless discontinued. Your doctor only has to take multiple choice tests now.

  222. res says:
    @Rob

    Here is what I think is the blog post version. Not sure if this or the lecture came first.
    https://halcyoninitiative.wordpress.com/2014/10/05/morality-and-abstract-thinking-how-africans-may-differ-from-westerners-from-amren-com/

    P.S. This recently came up in another thread, so you probably saw it already. But I think good to have this link here as well.

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