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Puerto Rico's Public Schools Are Amazingly Bad
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With Puerto Rico in the news, I wanted to reiterate something that I’m about the only pundit in America to ever mention: Puerto Rico has unbelievably bad public schools.

The federal government has put a fair amount of effort into adapting and validating its NAEP school achievement test for the special challenges of Puerto Rico’s schools (e.g., Spanish and the questions need to be easier). Public school students in PR are in a world of their own for incompetence.

NAEP scores are grouped as

Advanced
Proficient
Basic
Below Basic

Here’s the 2017 NAEP Math scores 8th graders for the worst-scoring states in the U.S. plus PR. Even in DC, Louisiana, Alabama, and New Mexico a slim majority of public school students score at least Basic. (Nationally, 69% reach at least Basic). But in PR, only 9% reach Basic. So 91% are below basic.

Screenshot 2018-09-15 21.18.44

And the number in Puerto Rico to score as Proficient (much less Advanced) rounds to zero percent:

Screenshot 2018-09-15 21.19.17

Nationally, 33% of American public school students in 8th grade score Proficient or Advanced in math.

Nationally, Hispanics don’t do all that well on average:

Screenshot 2018-09-15 21.27.50

but they do an awful lot better than in Puerto Rico: 57% of Hispanics nationally score Basic or above, vs. 9% in PR. I would guess that Puerto Ricans in the fifty states score below the average for Hispanics, but still …

When I looked into this in 2015, in Puerto Rico 23% of students attended private schools vs. 10% nationally, so that accounts for some of the gap.

My impression is that PR pays teachers badly, but spends a lot on administration.

 
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  1. Sailer is at his best when he presents mean charts.

    Those charts are really mean.

    Below the mean really.

    • LOL: bomag
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Never fear, somehow it's all white guys' fault.

  2. Swamp Wobegon. Where all the children are below average.

  3. There are no mysteries as to why PR schools are amazingly bad. Start with biology first, i.e., IQ. The average PR IQ is 84. Why is it 84? Because 90% of PRs have black ancestry. Hence, bad schools. Latin America is heterogeneous, but Caucasians will be always be at the top.

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    @attilathehen

    Wow! PR's have the same IQ as the illegals streaming across the southern Border...Wonder how they do on math tests?!

    Replies: @attilathehen

    , @gate666
    @attilathehen

    then why do they perform so badly compared to hispanics who have similar iq.

    Replies: @attilathehen

    , @Pat Boyle
    @attilathehen

    Yes, I too wondered why Steve compared PRs to Hispanics in America. Did he see"West Side Story" and come to believe they looked more like Rita Moreno than Michelle Obama? Africans have replaced Amerindian peoples everywhere in the Caribbean.

    Anyway what has school got to do with IQ? Nowadays its preferable to use PGS (polygenic score). School success can be measured prenatally. Almost all an individual's intelligence is set at conception

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Corvinus
    @attilathehen

    Actually, there are a myriad of factors. Of course, Mr. Sailer chose to NOT NOTICE them as a "pundit".

    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/puerto-rico-economy-education-declines/408277

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/puerto-rico-university-system-budget-cuts#.aoy00ZooR

    Replies: @attilathehen, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Brutusale

    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    @attilathehen

    A more telling comparison would be between Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, the latter of which has at least as much black ancestry as the former if not more so. My guess is that something else is at work here. As in, perhaps the Spaniards that settled PR were of far lower quality than those that settled elsewhere in Latin America. Or there was some sort of dysgenic pressure among the Spaniards, Africans, and Amerindians that was largely unique in PR. And it must also be pointed out that the native Taino were probably less intelligent that the Amerindians of Central and South America.

    Replies: @attilathehen

    , @anon
    @attilathehen

    You make a good point. Perhaps the comparison is itself flawed. Rather then the mainland USA, maybe P.R. should be compared to Jamaica or Haiti.

    How does it measure up by this standard?

    Replies: @attilathehen

    , @PaceLaw
    @attilathehen

    “90% of PRs have black ancestry”??? That is absolutely absurd. Realistically it’s about 20%.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Ricans

    Replies: @anon

  4. Puerto Rico has three law schools.

    They are so laughably bad that the rankings people refuse to rank them.

    • Replies: @carol
    @Justice Duvall

    But do they pass the bar exam? [looks]

    Pass rate: 39% from ABA schools, 36% from non approved.

    Wow.

  5. Nationally, Hispanics don’t do all that well on average but they do an awful lot better than in Puerto Rico: 57% of Hispanics nationally score Basic or above, vs. 9% in PR.

    Which is not the same as saying 57% of Puerto Ricans in the US score basic or above. I suspect their scores go up somewhat in schools on the mainland but probably not by much. Puerto Ricans are useless to a modern information economy and probably make lousy carpenters, truck drivers, and security guards to boot.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @JimB

    They can be hot porn stars, though.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @JimB

    , @AndrewR
    @JimB

    I worked with several in the Air Force Medical Corps. I cannot say if they were incompetent as medical technicians, but one in particular was shockingly unprofessional. She found it appropriate, in front of multiple colleagues, to sincerely tell me "I don't like you." I don't remember exactly what the context of that was, but I guarantee I had never said or done anything rude to her before that (she outranked me anyway).

    , @Ed
    @JimB

    There’s a 27 year old Atlantic article about the Puerto Rican mainland underclass. The author found that it was worse off than the black underclass which he also studied. Not sure if anything has change since then.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/politics/poverty/othrund.htm



    As soon as the Hispanic category is broken down by group, what leaps out at anyone who takes even a casual look at the census data is that Puerto Ricans are the worst off ethnic group in the United States. For a period in the mid-1980s nearly half of all Puerto Rican families were living in poverty. It seems commonsensical that for Hispanics poverty would be a function of their unfamiliarity with the mainland United States, inability to speak English, and lack of education. But Mexican Americans, who are no more proficient in English than Puerto Ricans, less likely to have finished high school, and more likely to have arrived here very recently, have a much lower poverty rate. The Journal of the American Medical Association reported earlier this year that, as the newsletter of a leading Puerto Rican organization put it, "On almost every health indicator...Puerto Ricans fared worse" than Mexican-Americans or Cubans. Infant mortality was 50 percent higher than among Mexican-Americans, and nearly three times as high as among Cubans.
     

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  6. Being that ‘Proficient,’ ‘Basic, ”Below Basic’ are arbitrary designations, can someone find the raw scores and come up with reasonable IQ estimates based on test performance.

    Compare them to the the meta-analysis of Puerto Rican IQ that put it at 87 (See Sailer, March 2014: Puerto Rico and IQ: Same as It Ever Was.)

    If IQ 87 is correct, Puerto Rico’s IQ avg. would be lower than any U.S. state’s anyway; a hypothetical 100%-Black U.S. state would have IQ=85, but there are none of those. (One might imagine Washington, D.C. public schools must come close, but surprisingly they are down to 62% Black as of the time of this testing data [2017].)

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Hail

    Thanks for the 2014 link.

    The poor scores of PRs, including mainland USA PRs, may be partly caused by their naked stone-age islander amerindian ancestry, far more primative that the literate urban civilizations seen in mainland pre-Columbian Latin American. The initial settlement of PR may have been a bottleneck event that also depressed intelligence.

    There has also been brain drain out of PR since they've been citizens, 100 years worth. Due to intermarriage and assimilation, the most talented PR migrants of 1900-1950 have descendants who mostly do not identify as PR.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @bomag, @AnotherDad

  7. The District is being gentrified. The Commonwealth is most decidedly not.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Reg Cæsar

    Make sure you identify your Commonwealth. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts does just fine.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Flip
    @Reg Cæsar

    Some American hedge fund guys have moved there as there is a program where you can get exempted from US Federal taxes.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  8. I can explain this: Their schools are full of Puerto Ricans.

    • LOL: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    I was going to say "Bad students, not bad schools" but you got it more pithily.

  9. Anonymous [AKA "A mestizo"] says:

    Puerto Rican’s on average are mostly Spanish speaking sub Saharan Africans. Does that explain it Sherlock or are you being coy?

    • Replies: @PaceLaw
    @Anonymous

    Why do so many persist with the fallacy the PRs are overwhelmingly black? They are not.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Ricans

    Replies: @attilathehen

  10. @Hail
    Being that 'Proficient,' 'Basic, ''Below Basic' are arbitrary designations, can someone find the raw scores and come up with reasonable IQ estimates based on test performance.

    Compare them to the the meta-analysis of Puerto Rican IQ that put it at 87 (See Sailer, March 2014: Puerto Rico and IQ: Same as It Ever Was.)

    If IQ 87 is correct, Puerto Rico's IQ avg. would be lower than any U.S. state's anyway; a hypothetical 100%-Black U.S. state would have IQ=85, but there are none of those. (One might imagine Washington, D.C. public schools must come close, but surprisingly they are down to 62% Black as of the time of this testing data [2017].)

    Replies: @Lot

    Thanks for the 2014 link.

    The poor scores of PRs, including mainland USA PRs, may be partly caused by their naked stone-age islander amerindian ancestry, far more primative that the literate urban civilizations seen in mainland pre-Columbian Latin American. The initial settlement of PR may have been a bottleneck event that also depressed intelligence.

    There has also been brain drain out of PR since they’ve been citizens, 100 years worth. Due to intermarriage and assimilation, the most talented PR migrants of 1900-1950 have descendants who mostly do not identify as PR.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Lot

    My impression is that Cuba got a lot of bourgeois urban immigrants to Havana, while Puerto Rico was a rural backwater that mostly got farm laborer immigrants.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @bomag
    @Lot


    There has also been brain drain out of PR since they’ve been citizens, 100 years worth. Due to intermarriage and assimilation, the most talented PR migrants of 1900-1950 have descendants who mostly do not identify as PR.
     
    Pretty much the point of The Bell Curve, and something seen in other partly isolated groups, e.g. Indian reservations, hillbilly enclaves.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @AnotherDad
    @Lot


    The poor scores of PRs, including mainland USA PRs, may be partly caused by their naked stone-age islander amerindian ancestry, far more primative that the literate urban civilizations seen in mainland pre-Columbian Latin American. The initial settlement of PR may have been a bottleneck event that also depressed intelligence.

    There has also been brain drain out of PR since they’ve been citizens, 100 years worth. Due to intermarriage and assimilation, the most talented PR migrants of 1900-1950 have descendants who mostly do not identify as PR.
     

    Calling the Aztec's a "literate urban civilization" is a stretch. They had a pictographic script with some syllabic markers that the priests could use. It's not like there was even any literature that upper class people were sitting down in the evening reading, much less signage or schooling. And there would have been essentially no selection based on literacy like Chinese, Indian Brahmins, the Jews had, but which was also operating on middle class Europeans.

    Not denying there is some sort of selection just based on being in a agricultural civilization with agriculture + trade, but don't think there's much of bump there you can ascribe to "literacy".

    ~~

    A "brain drain" affect to the mainland could certainly be operating. Smart, motivated folks getting the heck out. On the other hand, if you're a white-elite "winner" in Puerto Rico, why leave to compete with smarter white people on the mainland? While if you're struggling there it's been extremely easy to decamp to the States especially in the post-airline deregulation environment of the last couple generations.

    How this balances out … hard to say.

    Replies: @Lot

  11. Steely Dan Here At The Western World

  12. Why on earth does the US keep PR as a territory, with its inhabitants enjoying full citizenship and the financial support of American taxpayers? It could locate military bases there without paying that huge cost.

    • Replies: @Alfa158
    @Rob McX

    Simple. Because there would be blood in the streets of Puerto Rico if the US made the slightest move to cutting them loose from the teat. It’s like asking why someone with a cancer tumor keeps it instead of simply letting it go.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @Joe Stalin

    , @El Dato
    @Rob McX

    Because of Aliens

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFOw79Oohv8

    , @J. Dart
    @Rob McX

    Sorry for sounding like a broken record (I already ranted about this on the other PR thread), but the last time the US tried to cut some colonies loose, we got stuck with Compacts of Free Association where we still had to let their citizens in without limits and even keep on giving them foreign aid if they stayed at home and welfare if they moved to the US.

    The only saving grace was that those were little Pacific islands with low five-digit populations, but Hawaii was still spending over a hundred million dollars just on health care for them back in the 2000s until Linda Lingle won that Hail Mary victory in the Ninth Circuit and actually managed to cut back on the bennies.

    Replies: @anon

    , @AnotherDad
    @Rob McX


    Why on earth does the US keep PR as a territory, with its inhabitants enjoying full citizenship and the financial support of American taxpayers? It could locate military bases there without paying that huge cost.
     
    Beyond the moral corruption and stupidity of the US climbing onto the colonialism bandwagon--a pox upon McKinley, Roosevelt, etc.--the US missed a couple absolutely gold plated opportunities to dump Puerto Rico:

    -- 1946, with Philippine Independence with the barbarity of the German and Japanese imperial grabs was fresh and getting on the side of national independence was good for Cold War

    -- at the end of the Cold War and the Soviet Union; saying, "it's over, we won" and pushing national self-determination.

    It's hard to extract ourselves now. Especially post-Maria. There would be a mad rush of Puerto Ricans to the US. But after spending some money rebuilding ... we need to pull the plug and get out.

    If we're stuck with the Puerto Ricans seems like the least we could ask is for them all to come to the states, and let some white settlers take over the island. Developed by white people it would be a really nice piece of vacation real estate.

    Replies: @bomag

  13. Anon[325] • Disclaimer says:

    I hate the way that they present this kind of data for schools: grade level, below grade level, proficient, high proficiency. It’s unclear what these standards mean.

    Here’s my take: I don’t think that states would use tests where half the kids flunk. So the passing grade is not the mean. I suspect that they set the passing grade to minus 1 sigma (for some year, for some students), the grade that those one standard deviation below mean get. This means that about 16 percent of the class will be below passing, one in six, but it also means that half of the class is a standard deviation above passing. No matter what you do, the scores will form a bell curve.

    By the way, a standard deviation in the middle school range is a span equal to about 2.5 to 3 grades, according to what I’ve read and from looking at various data.

    With the assumption of minus 1 sigma, you can reconstruct the normal curve of the test results. From there you can plot the various normal curves by race and ethnicity. Because you’ve assumed a minus 1 SD point, you can figure the distance in SDs between the means of the various curves. This also assumes each group has the same SD, which is not really true, but we’re doing a spherical-cow-in-a-vaccuum, back of the envelope guestimation here. La Griffe du Lion shows how to do some of this stuff, especially in the appendices to his posts. What you’d be looking for is whether the distance between the white scores and the black scores is about 1 SD. If so, your assumptions and computations were probably about right.

    How do you derive the IQ from this? IQ is simply a statistical distribution. So the mean value, assuming mostly white students, can be remapped to 100. If we know or can guess the SD, minus 1 SD will be 85, so you scale the left and right parts of the graph to that. You can fill in the rest of the numbers that way. These school tests are rather noisy, not pure cognitive tests, but given enough samples they are accurate for IQ for the overall group, although not for individuals.

  14. Anonymous[386] • Disclaimer says:

    PR is not really America at all. It’s another scam.

    Ricans themselves aren’t panicked about education quality in PR. We’re suckers for dumping tax dollars into that pit.

    It’s an unending mission to get everyone in the world to think and act like Yankee Progressives.

    Insane.

    We need ISOLATIONISM in order to heal from the disease of empire.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Trevor H.
    @Anonymous

    Yep. And we need it now, or actually 50 years ago.

    , @bomag
    @Anonymous


    We need ISOLATIONISM in order to heal from the disease of empire.
     
    Those at the top are plenty isolated.

    I've been thinking that civilization is pretty much an ongoing civil war at various levels of intensity. Since resources are ultimately finite, my neighbor has stuff I could use now or in the future, so part of me is always keeping track of his valuable things. Along with this are various alliances I make with those far and near, and often I find it expedient to invite in an ally who will take my neighbor's stuff and share even a small part with me.
    , @Bragadocious
    @Anonymous

    We won't get it from Puerto Rico. If you listen to them talk, they sound like an estranged wife about to enter divorce court. You would be nothing without me. I've contributed everything to this marriage. Puerto Ricans love to trot out fake stats about how they serve in the military at higher rates than gringos. (no word on honorable discharges, let alone heroism). In other words, Puerto Ricans want to be paid to go away.

    Replies: @Lot, @Gary in Gramercy

  15. @Rob McX
    Why on earth does the US keep PR as a territory, with its inhabitants enjoying full citizenship and the financial support of American taxpayers? It could locate military bases there without paying that huge cost.

    Replies: @Alfa158, @El Dato, @J. Dart, @AnotherDad

    Simple. Because there would be blood in the streets of Puerto Rico if the US made the slightest move to cutting them loose from the teat. It’s like asking why someone with a cancer tumor keeps it instead of simply letting it go.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    @Alfa158

    Why should we even care about blood in the streets of Puerto Rico?

    , @Joe Stalin
    @Alfa158

    Covert operations. Doesn't even have to be CIA. There must be a zillion leftists in PR that presumably could be convinced to at least spread anti-USA graffiti on public spaces. Look at any modern French movie in current times; lots and lots of buildings with graffiti. Or, as a Black man riding the CTA train said: graffiti is being civilized. Spread some cash to create the equivalent of WCPTs (Chicago Progressive Talk) and, of course, and anti-USA Antifas. Set the mood: "No more Yankees!"

    At least get the ball rolling toward freeing the USA from PR. It took the Phillipines eleven years to go from Commonwealth to independence. It could go a lot faster with some behind the scenes encouragement.

  16. OT:

    Are your old Taki’s Magazine essays archived somewhere? I tried to find your 2010 essay, “The Americanization of Britain,” but only the 200-word snippet posted on your blog seems to be available.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Grumpy

    http://takimag.com/article/polanskis_ghost_writer_and_americanising_britain/#axzz5R1R86Ld2

    It doesn't have that exact phrase in it.

    Lately Google has been putting Takimag.com articles down toward the bottom searches.

    Replies: @Grumpy

  17. I was looking at that website and according to their race statistics, white people make up 51% of 8th graders. Since Arabs and maybe Indians are being counted as white, the number is probably under 50%.

    The breakdown is as follows.

    White 51%
    Hispanic 24%
    Black 14%
    Asian 6%
    American Indian + mixed race 4%

    This is the blackest of black pills. As derby would say “we are doomed”.

    • Replies: @Travis
    @God Emperor Putin

    good observation. Would be good to know how many 8th grade students are in private schools to get a better picture of the racial demographics of American 8th graders.

    , @bomag
    @God Emperor Putin


    the number is probably under 50%.
     
    For a color blind, rainbow, inclusive country, this is one of the most watched statistics.

    Like a billboard with a running display of the national debt, crowds are eagerly watching the demographic numbers fall below 50% so the celebrations can begin. What they are celebrating we really don't want. Kind of like watching food production fall below what is needed for maintenance.
    , @AndrewR
    @God Emperor Putin

    If we are doomed, it's in no small part due to crude racial reductionist thinking like yours.

    , @Diversity Heretic
    @God Emperor Putin

    Astute comment, although whether the pill is blackest or reddest can be debated. But the fact that white racial mere plurality status, and minority status in many areas, is now a demographic reality irrespective of further immigration (it affects only the rate of dispossession, not its underlying reality) ought to be the uppermost consideration in the mind of any racially aware white person. Taking the black pill might involve withdrawal and surrender, the red pill might involve organizing for white racial solidarity and an end to privileged status for other races. I know that many whites will reject it, but others are reachable.

    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    @God Emperor Putin

    Don't you group Indians (from India) with the Asians, like in Britain?

  18. @Lot
    @Hail

    Thanks for the 2014 link.

    The poor scores of PRs, including mainland USA PRs, may be partly caused by their naked stone-age islander amerindian ancestry, far more primative that the literate urban civilizations seen in mainland pre-Columbian Latin American. The initial settlement of PR may have been a bottleneck event that also depressed intelligence.

    There has also been brain drain out of PR since they've been citizens, 100 years worth. Due to intermarriage and assimilation, the most talented PR migrants of 1900-1950 have descendants who mostly do not identify as PR.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @bomag, @AnotherDad

    My impression is that Cuba got a lot of bourgeois urban immigrants to Havana, while Puerto Rico was a rural backwater that mostly got farm laborer immigrants.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    I've read that the Spanish settlers of Puerto Rico mostly originated from the Canary Islands - if that has any relevance.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @anonymous, @Logan

  19. OT: The People are now “Migrant NGOs” (which get the money from whom?)

    ‘Not our minister’: Migrant NGOs demand Germany’s Seehofer change his behavior or resign

    Two dozen migrant and anti-racist groups have penned a letter demanding that German Interior Minister Horst Seehofer change his stance on migration or leave office following his comments in the wake of protests in Chemnitz.

    “An interior minister for everyone should not divide the society any further but instead clearly take a stand for the core values of our country,” read an open letter titled “Not our interior minister.” It was signed by more than 20 groups, including several associations of Turkish, Polish and Serbian communities, as well as pro-migration, pro-diversity and anti-fascist groups.

    LOL Serbs and Turks, they are the most peaceful ever. Just don’t move into their territory.

    The group said that immigrants feel “that we and our children cannot move freely and safely everywhere in this country – because of our appearance, our names, our beliefs.”

    Is “Everywhere” is now “Anywhere”?

    As they say “STAY IN ASSIGNED AREA”.

    • Replies: @Trevor H.
    @El Dato


    “An interior minister for everyone should not divide the society any further"
     
    Quite agree. Stop importing migrants.
    , @bomag
    @El Dato


    It was signed by more than 20 groups...
     
    A version of the Tragedy of the Commons: the 20 groups have their own areas, and see Germany as a commons that is to be grazed into oblivion and divvied up among the 20.
  20. @Grumpy
    OT:

    Are your old Taki's Magazine essays archived somewhere? I tried to find your 2010 essay, "The Americanization of Britain," but only the 200-word snippet posted on your blog seems to be available.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    http://takimag.com/article/polanskis_ghost_writer_and_americanising_britain/#axzz5R1R86Ld2

    It doesn’t have that exact phrase in it.

    Lately Google has been putting Takimag.com articles down toward the bottom searches.

    • Replies: @Grumpy
    @Steve Sailer

    Thank you, Mr. Sailer! And no thanks to Google.

    After you mentioned it more than once, I wanted to watch The Ghost Writer and finally saw it last night. Good movie.

  21. @Rob McX
    Why on earth does the US keep PR as a territory, with its inhabitants enjoying full citizenship and the financial support of American taxpayers? It could locate military bases there without paying that huge cost.

    Replies: @Alfa158, @El Dato, @J. Dart, @AnotherDad

    Because of Aliens

  22. @Steve Sailer
    @Lot

    My impression is that Cuba got a lot of bourgeois urban immigrants to Havana, while Puerto Rico was a rural backwater that mostly got farm laborer immigrants.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I’ve read that the Spanish settlers of Puerto Rico mostly originated from the Canary Islands – if that has any relevance.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    The Canary Islands were a weird prelude to the Age of Exploration. Mediterranean Christians started arriving maybe around 1300, and one settled in 1312. There were people living there, who looked like Berbers, but had stone age technology. The Spanish conquered the Canaries from the aboriginals around the early 1400s.

    , @anonymous
    @Anonymous

    It has significance in that the supposed Spanish settlers of PR may not be at root all that Spanish but Latinized Berbers instead.

    , @Logan
    @Anonymous

    I've read some recently about the Canaries. The inhabitants when the Spanish arrived were basically Berbers. As is usually the case in history, the Spanish pretty much killed all the men and took all the women for themselves, so those who emigrated to other parts of the Spanish Empire were generally something close to half Spanish, half Berber genetically speaking. This changed over time as fully European immigrants immigrated from Spain, especially when women started coming.

    But then of course the Spanish from Spain got a major infusion of Berber and, to a lesser degree, Arab blood during the period when Muslims ruled much of the peninsula. So it's not unreasonable to think of the inhabitants of the Canaries who moved to other parts of the Empire as roughly half Berber.

  23. @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    I've read that the Spanish settlers of Puerto Rico mostly originated from the Canary Islands - if that has any relevance.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @anonymous, @Logan

    The Canary Islands were a weird prelude to the Age of Exploration. Mediterranean Christians started arriving maybe around 1300, and one settled in 1312. There were people living there, who looked like Berbers, but had stone age technology. The Spanish conquered the Canaries from the aboriginals around the early 1400s.

  24. @JimB

    Nationally, Hispanics don’t do all that well on average but they do an awful lot better than in Puerto Rico: 57% of Hispanics nationally score Basic or above, vs. 9% in PR.
     
    Which is not the same as saying 57% of Puerto Ricans in the US score basic or above. I suspect their scores go up somewhat in schools on the mainland but probably not by much. Puerto Ricans are useless to a modern information economy and probably make lousy carpenters, truck drivers, and security guards to boot.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @AndrewR, @Ed

    They can be hot porn stars, though.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Redneck farmer

    Like who?

    , @JimB
    @Redneck farmer


    They can be hot porn stars, though.
     
    Low skill labor, for sure.
  25. I wonder how many white American lives have been destroyed over not feeling sorry enough for Hispanics. I’m specifically thinking of a Texas rancher who lost his property in a suit over shooting an illegal for trespassing but I’m sure there are numerous other examples. These people have endless needs that the US seems required to meet while giving unconditional acceptance to any and all Hispanic dysfunction.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  26. @attilathehen
    There are no mysteries as to why PR schools are amazingly bad. Start with biology first, i.e., IQ. The average PR IQ is 84. Why is it 84? Because 90% of PRs have black ancestry. Hence, bad schools. Latin America is heterogeneous, but Caucasians will be always be at the top.

    Replies: @pyrrhus, @gate666, @Pat Boyle, @Corvinus, @Hapalong Cassidy, @anon, @PaceLaw

    Wow! PR’s have the same IQ as the illegals streaming across the southern Border…Wonder how they do on math tests?!

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    @pyrrhus

    It depends on the illegals. If they come from Central America, they will do poorly. The average Mexican IQ is 88 so there's a little more to work with.

  27. @Reg Cæsar
    The District is being gentrified. The Commonwealth is most decidedly not.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Flip

    Make sure you identify your Commonwealth. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts does just fine.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Brutusale


    Make sure you identify your Commonwealth. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts does just fine.
     
    As "Puerto Rico" or "PR" appears 14 times in Steve's piece, including headline and tables, I kind of assumed readers would figure it out. The only other "Commonwealth" mentioned is Kentucky.

    Also, Virginia borders DC, and Pennsylvania is very close.

    Have you paid off the Big Dig yet?

    Replies: @Brutusale

  28. “Puerto Ricans themselves aren’t panicked about education quality in PR. We’re suckers for dumping tax dollars into that pit.”

    They probably understand, correctly, that there is no way of educating people with an average IQ of 84, so why worry about it….

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @revjen45
    @pyrrhus

    A most astute observation!

  29. @Anonymous
    PR is not really America at all. It's another scam.

    Ricans themselves aren't panicked about education quality in PR. We're suckers for dumping tax dollars into that pit.

    It's an unending mission to get everyone in the world to think and act like Yankee Progressives.

    Insane.

    We need ISOLATIONISM in order to heal from the disease of empire.

    Replies: @Trevor H., @bomag, @Bragadocious

    Yep. And we need it now, or actually 50 years ago.

  30. @El Dato
    OT: The People are now "Migrant NGOs" (which get the money from whom?)

    ‘Not our minister’: Migrant NGOs demand Germany’s Seehofer change his behavior or resign

    Two dozen migrant and anti-racist groups have penned a letter demanding that German Interior Minister Horst Seehofer change his stance on migration or leave office following his comments in the wake of protests in Chemnitz.

    “An interior minister for everyone should not divide the society any further but instead clearly take a stand for the core values of our country,” read an open letter titled “Not our interior minister.” It was signed by more than 20 groups, including several associations of Turkish, Polish and Serbian communities, as well as pro-migration, pro-diversity and anti-fascist groups.
     
    LOL Serbs and Turks, they are the most peaceful ever. Just don't move into their territory.

    The group said that immigrants feel "that we and our children cannot move freely and safely everywhere in this country – because of our appearance, our names, our beliefs."
     
    Is "Everywhere" is now "Anywhere"?

    As they say "STAY IN ASSIGNED AREA".

    Replies: @Trevor H., @bomag

    “An interior minister for everyone should not divide the society any further”

    Quite agree. Stop importing migrants.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  31. @God Emperor Putin
    I was looking at that website and according to their race statistics, white people make up 51% of 8th graders. Since Arabs and maybe Indians are being counted as white, the number is probably under 50%.

    The breakdown is as follows.

    White 51%
    Hispanic 24%
    Black 14%
    Asian 6%
    American Indian + mixed race 4%

    This is the blackest of black pills. As derby would say “we are doomed”.

    Replies: @Travis, @bomag, @AndrewR, @Diversity Heretic, @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    good observation. Would be good to know how many 8th grade students are in private schools to get a better picture of the racial demographics of American 8th graders.

  32. Anon[217] • Disclaimer says:

    “When I looked into this in 2015, in Puerto Rico 23% of students attended private schools vs. 10% nationally, so that accounts for some of the gap.”

    How much of the poor test scores can be explained by this? Hawaii is also a good example of a high private school percentage state, and not too surprisingly, their public school test scores arent that great either. There is Punahou, Iolani, Seabury, Hawaii Prep, for example. Then there is the Kamehameha Schools, which are ostensibly private but school many of the native Hawaiian kids. So the amount of siphoning of higher performing and wealthy kids from the overall kid pool is considerable.

    I’d like to see test score stats of all kids in the state, not just the automatic bottom rung of kids, many of whom are dumped into the public schools because, well, that’s just where they go. I don’t feel smug about those test scores.

  33. @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    I've read that the Spanish settlers of Puerto Rico mostly originated from the Canary Islands - if that has any relevance.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @anonymous, @Logan

    It has significance in that the supposed Spanish settlers of PR may not be at root all that Spanish but Latinized Berbers instead.

  34. @attilathehen
    There are no mysteries as to why PR schools are amazingly bad. Start with biology first, i.e., IQ. The average PR IQ is 84. Why is it 84? Because 90% of PRs have black ancestry. Hence, bad schools. Latin America is heterogeneous, but Caucasians will be always be at the top.

    Replies: @pyrrhus, @gate666, @Pat Boyle, @Corvinus, @Hapalong Cassidy, @anon, @PaceLaw

    then why do they perform so badly compared to hispanics who have similar iq.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    @gate666

    Hispanics can be of any race. The largest non-white groups in Latin America are Amerindians (Asians) and blacks. Asians are second in intelligence, blacks are last.

    In Mexico, the average IQ is 88. They have an 80% Amerindian population but they manage to get closer to the 90 IQ marker so there is a slight advantage. Again, I don't want these Mexican Amerindians in the USA, but Mexico does have a wealthy economy. So despite their high crime (which is actually much lower than Brazil's or Central America's), they are managing to create a successful economy. Also, being on the US's border let's them see how working hard and a free market economy can improve their lives if they follow such policies.

    In Central America, except for Costa Rica which is mostly white, the average IQ is 82-84. Nothing can be done there. But again, being Asian (of whatever ethnicity, i.e., Amerindian) is better than being black. Even the Philippines (avg. IQ 84) is in better shape than Puerto Rico or northern Brazil.

  35. @Alfa158
    @Rob McX

    Simple. Because there would be blood in the streets of Puerto Rico if the US made the slightest move to cutting them loose from the teat. It’s like asking why someone with a cancer tumor keeps it instead of simply letting it go.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @Joe Stalin

    Why should we even care about blood in the streets of Puerto Rico?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  36. @Lot
    @Hail

    Thanks for the 2014 link.

    The poor scores of PRs, including mainland USA PRs, may be partly caused by their naked stone-age islander amerindian ancestry, far more primative that the literate urban civilizations seen in mainland pre-Columbian Latin American. The initial settlement of PR may have been a bottleneck event that also depressed intelligence.

    There has also been brain drain out of PR since they've been citizens, 100 years worth. Due to intermarriage and assimilation, the most talented PR migrants of 1900-1950 have descendants who mostly do not identify as PR.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @bomag, @AnotherDad

    There has also been brain drain out of PR since they’ve been citizens, 100 years worth. Due to intermarriage and assimilation, the most talented PR migrants of 1900-1950 have descendants who mostly do not identify as PR.

    Pretty much the point of The Bell Curve, and something seen in other partly isolated groups, e.g. Indian reservations, hillbilly enclaves.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @bomag

    This is a common phenomenon in colonised countries. I wonder how much the dumb Irish/Polack stereotypes are due to the most talented members of these nations emigrating and assimilating into other cultures.

  37. @Reg Cæsar
    The District is being gentrified. The Commonwealth is most decidedly not.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Flip

    Some American hedge fund guys have moved there as there is a program where you can get exempted from US Federal taxes.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Flip


    Some American hedge fund guys have moved there as there is a program where you can get exempted from US Federal taxes.

     

    "Moved", as in "bought a condo"? To go with the one in Monaco, or the Caymans.

    Replies: @Flip

  38. @Anonymous
    PR is not really America at all. It's another scam.

    Ricans themselves aren't panicked about education quality in PR. We're suckers for dumping tax dollars into that pit.

    It's an unending mission to get everyone in the world to think and act like Yankee Progressives.

    Insane.

    We need ISOLATIONISM in order to heal from the disease of empire.

    Replies: @Trevor H., @bomag, @Bragadocious

    We need ISOLATIONISM in order to heal from the disease of empire.

    Those at the top are plenty isolated.

    I’ve been thinking that civilization is pretty much an ongoing civil war at various levels of intensity. Since resources are ultimately finite, my neighbor has stuff I could use now or in the future, so part of me is always keeping track of his valuable things. Along with this are various alliances I make with those far and near, and often I find it expedient to invite in an ally who will take my neighbor’s stuff and share even a small part with me.

  39. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    I can explain this: Their schools are full of Puerto Ricans.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

    I was going to say “Bad students, not bad schools” but you got it more pithily.

  40. @God Emperor Putin
    I was looking at that website and according to their race statistics, white people make up 51% of 8th graders. Since Arabs and maybe Indians are being counted as white, the number is probably under 50%.

    The breakdown is as follows.

    White 51%
    Hispanic 24%
    Black 14%
    Asian 6%
    American Indian + mixed race 4%

    This is the blackest of black pills. As derby would say “we are doomed”.

    Replies: @Travis, @bomag, @AndrewR, @Diversity Heretic, @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    the number is probably under 50%.

    For a color blind, rainbow, inclusive country, this is one of the most watched statistics.

    Like a billboard with a running display of the national debt, crowds are eagerly watching the demographic numbers fall below 50% so the celebrations can begin. What they are celebrating we really don’t want. Kind of like watching food production fall below what is needed for maintenance.

  41. @El Dato
    OT: The People are now "Migrant NGOs" (which get the money from whom?)

    ‘Not our minister’: Migrant NGOs demand Germany’s Seehofer change his behavior or resign

    Two dozen migrant and anti-racist groups have penned a letter demanding that German Interior Minister Horst Seehofer change his stance on migration or leave office following his comments in the wake of protests in Chemnitz.

    “An interior minister for everyone should not divide the society any further but instead clearly take a stand for the core values of our country,” read an open letter titled “Not our interior minister.” It was signed by more than 20 groups, including several associations of Turkish, Polish and Serbian communities, as well as pro-migration, pro-diversity and anti-fascist groups.
     
    LOL Serbs and Turks, they are the most peaceful ever. Just don't move into their territory.

    The group said that immigrants feel "that we and our children cannot move freely and safely everywhere in this country – because of our appearance, our names, our beliefs."
     
    Is "Everywhere" is now "Anywhere"?

    As they say "STAY IN ASSIGNED AREA".

    Replies: @Trevor H., @bomag

    It was signed by more than 20 groups…

    A version of the Tragedy of the Commons: the 20 groups have their own areas, and see Germany as a commons that is to be grazed into oblivion and divvied up among the 20.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  42. PR is a special case as it is operated as a colony.

    I suspect PR is run sort of like South American countries which have a large private schools population. The published numbers might be public school only.

    Wikipedia claims one private school has 1100 students.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academia_Bautista_de_Puerto_Nuevo

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Puerto_Rico#Private_schools

    When I played with their ‘data tool’ I found for PR there is very little private school data.

    Year Jurisdiction Public or private school, 2 categories Average scale score
    2017 Puerto Rico Public 190
    Private ‡
    ‡ Reporting standards not met.

    The majority of ‘top tier’ or even middling students might not be in the public school system. It is also possible with the financial collapse very large numbers of PR students are now in the US mainland school system.

  43. @JimB

    Nationally, Hispanics don’t do all that well on average but they do an awful lot better than in Puerto Rico: 57% of Hispanics nationally score Basic or above, vs. 9% in PR.
     
    Which is not the same as saying 57% of Puerto Ricans in the US score basic or above. I suspect their scores go up somewhat in schools on the mainland but probably not by much. Puerto Ricans are useless to a modern information economy and probably make lousy carpenters, truck drivers, and security guards to boot.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @AndrewR, @Ed

    I worked with several in the Air Force Medical Corps. I cannot say if they were incompetent as medical technicians, but one in particular was shockingly unprofessional. She found it appropriate, in front of multiple colleagues, to sincerely tell me “I don’t like you.” I don’t remember exactly what the context of that was, but I guarantee I had never said or done anything rude to her before that (she outranked me anyway).

  44. @God Emperor Putin
    I was looking at that website and according to their race statistics, white people make up 51% of 8th graders. Since Arabs and maybe Indians are being counted as white, the number is probably under 50%.

    The breakdown is as follows.

    White 51%
    Hispanic 24%
    Black 14%
    Asian 6%
    American Indian + mixed race 4%

    This is the blackest of black pills. As derby would say “we are doomed”.

    Replies: @Travis, @bomag, @AndrewR, @Diversity Heretic, @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    If we are doomed, it’s in no small part due to crude racial reductionist thinking like yours.

  45. @God Emperor Putin
    I was looking at that website and according to their race statistics, white people make up 51% of 8th graders. Since Arabs and maybe Indians are being counted as white, the number is probably under 50%.

    The breakdown is as follows.

    White 51%
    Hispanic 24%
    Black 14%
    Asian 6%
    American Indian + mixed race 4%

    This is the blackest of black pills. As derby would say “we are doomed”.

    Replies: @Travis, @bomag, @AndrewR, @Diversity Heretic, @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    Astute comment, although whether the pill is blackest or reddest can be debated. But the fact that white racial mere plurality status, and minority status in many areas, is now a demographic reality irrespective of further immigration (it affects only the rate of dispossession, not its underlying reality) ought to be the uppermost consideration in the mind of any racially aware white person. Taking the black pill might involve withdrawal and surrender, the red pill might involve organizing for white racial solidarity and an end to privileged status for other races. I know that many whites will reject it, but others are reachable.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  46. @attilathehen
    There are no mysteries as to why PR schools are amazingly bad. Start with biology first, i.e., IQ. The average PR IQ is 84. Why is it 84? Because 90% of PRs have black ancestry. Hence, bad schools. Latin America is heterogeneous, but Caucasians will be always be at the top.

    Replies: @pyrrhus, @gate666, @Pat Boyle, @Corvinus, @Hapalong Cassidy, @anon, @PaceLaw

    Yes, I too wondered why Steve compared PRs to Hispanics in America. Did he see”West Side Story” and come to believe they looked more like Rita Moreno than Michelle Obama? Africans have replaced Amerindian peoples everywhere in the Caribbean.

    Anyway what has school got to do with IQ? Nowadays its preferable to use PGS (polygenic score). School success can be measured prenatally. Almost all an individual’s intelligence is set at conception

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Pat Boyle

    Puerto Rico is somewhat unusual in that most people are a tri-racial mix - European/African/Amerindian. Based on the results on the ground, this is not an especially felicitous combination in terms of brains but the average Puerto Rican indeed does look more like Rita Moreno (who is an actual Puerto Rican) than Moochelle. If you had said Natalie Wood, I would have agreed with you.

    Also, compared to say Cuba, the racial omelet seems to be have pretty well mixed - most Cubans are either distinctly (or at least mostly) white or very black whereas Puerto Ricans tend to be this sort of mocha mix of a bit of everything, so they are not-white but also not-black.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @sayless, @üeljang

  47. Public schools are also terrible in the neighboring Dominican Republic, but has anyone looked at whether a higher percentage of children attend private or church schools in Puerto Rico, as compared to the US.

    Based on my own experience and observations in the Dominican Republic, the quality of Spanish language textbooks and learning materials is very poor, full of errors, incorrect information, spelling and grammatical errors.

    Spanish language television is also very poor, lacking in educational and documentary programs, full of soap operas and very silly game shows. As far as I know there is no PBS in Spanish, although I have seen Peppa Pig cartoon on TV in Spanish–not sure what channel–which are somewhat educational.

    I suspect the number and quality of Spanish language Web sites is also inferior.

    My kids used to speak Spanish only, now they are English only speaking, having forgotten 95% of their Spanish. The amount of stuff that they learn from Youtube and PBS is enormous. Now they can give learned lectures on dinosaurs, but when they spoke Spanish they could not.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Jonathan Mason


    Now they can give learned lectures on dinosaurs, but when they spoke Spanish they could not.
     
    This morning in the car my 5-year-old piped up and asked: "Daddy, if the earth is round, and it moves, why don't we fall off?"

    Good question. I decided now was the time to give her the Gravity Talk, so I informed her that at the center of the earth there is a huge magnet that sucks everything in. I asked her what happens if you throw an apple in the air, and after a moment's thought, she said that it would fall to earth, thus replicating the observation of Sir Isaac Newton that apples are subject to the laws of physics.

    It seemed that she was well on the way to a Nobel prize, until she explained the reason for her question. She would like to fly in space so that everyone could smell her farts. Probably not what Sir Isaac had in mind.

    However had she been a Spanish-speaking child and not mine, most likely her parent would have referred her to the Book of Genesis for information about gravity, apples, etc. and told her to stop asking questions.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Jus' Sayin'...

  48. @Rob McX
    Why on earth does the US keep PR as a territory, with its inhabitants enjoying full citizenship and the financial support of American taxpayers? It could locate military bases there without paying that huge cost.

    Replies: @Alfa158, @El Dato, @J. Dart, @AnotherDad

    Sorry for sounding like a broken record (I already ranted about this on the other PR thread), but the last time the US tried to cut some colonies loose, we got stuck with Compacts of Free Association where we still had to let their citizens in without limits and even keep on giving them foreign aid if they stayed at home and welfare if they moved to the US.

    The only saving grace was that those were little Pacific islands with low five-digit populations, but Hawaii was still spending over a hundred million dollars just on health care for them back in the 2000s until Linda Lingle won that Hail Mary victory in the Ninth Circuit and actually managed to cut back on the bennies.

    • Replies: @anon
    @J. Dart

    If the US got stuck with such a raw deal it was only because it allowed itself to be taken advantage of.

  49. @Brutusale
    @Reg Cæsar

    Make sure you identify your Commonwealth. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts does just fine.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Make sure you identify your Commonwealth. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts does just fine.

    As “Puerto Rico” or “PR” appears 14 times in Steve’s piece, including headline and tables, I kind of assumed readers would figure it out. The only other “Commonwealth” mentioned is Kentucky.

    Also, Virginia borders DC, and Pennsylvania is very close.

    Have you paid off the Big Dig yet?

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Reg Cæsar

    All ahead humor detector. Engage.

    I threw in that little line because the students in MY Commonwealth annually lead the pack in test scores. I thought everyone knew that.

    Have you paid off the Big Dig yet?

    Unfortunately, Reg, YOU did. It's government, where dumb costs are nationalized. It is Tip's Tunnel, after all.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  50. @Alfa158
    @Rob McX

    Simple. Because there would be blood in the streets of Puerto Rico if the US made the slightest move to cutting them loose from the teat. It’s like asking why someone with a cancer tumor keeps it instead of simply letting it go.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @Joe Stalin

    Covert operations. Doesn’t even have to be CIA. There must be a zillion leftists in PR that presumably could be convinced to at least spread anti-USA graffiti on public spaces. Look at any modern French movie in current times; lots and lots of buildings with graffiti. Or, as a Black man riding the CTA train said: graffiti is being civilized. Spread some cash to create the equivalent of WCPTs (Chicago Progressive Talk) and, of course, and anti-USA Antifas. Set the mood: “No more Yankees!”

    At least get the ball rolling toward freeing the USA from PR. It took the Phillipines eleven years to go from Commonwealth to independence. It could go a lot faster with some behind the scenes encouragement.

  51. @Justice Duvall
    Puerto Rico has three law schools.

    They are so laughably bad that the rankings people refuse to rank them.

    Replies: @carol

    But do they pass the bar exam? [looks]

    Pass rate: 39% from ABA schools, 36% from non approved.

    Wow.

  52. @Redneck farmer
    @JimB

    They can be hot porn stars, though.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @JimB

    Like who?

  53. @attilathehen
    There are no mysteries as to why PR schools are amazingly bad. Start with biology first, i.e., IQ. The average PR IQ is 84. Why is it 84? Because 90% of PRs have black ancestry. Hence, bad schools. Latin America is heterogeneous, but Caucasians will be always be at the top.

    Replies: @pyrrhus, @gate666, @Pat Boyle, @Corvinus, @Hapalong Cassidy, @anon, @PaceLaw

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    @Corvinus

    The items you claim Mr. Sailor has not noticed are completely connected to the low PR IQ because of their black ancestry.

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Corvinus

    Implicit in Sailer's argument, had you not chosen purposefully to misunderstand it, is that Puerto Rico's politics are utterly corrupt. This is largely because Puerto Ricans seem incapable of making good choices in the voting booth. This contributes to the conditions that create bad schools. Examples are a top heavy public school bureaucracy larded with highly paid but utterly incompetent "administrators", i.e., political patronage, and poorly paid teachers because the money to pay for the patronage has to come from somewhere. To compound this disaster some 80% of the public school student population, assuming a normal distribution, have an IQ, e.g., a capacity for academic learning, below the US national average. And of course these poorly educated and on average rather unintelligent young people will grow up to form a new electorate, perpetuating the on going disaster.

    Only a prog or dimocrat, deranged by partisan fantasies of electoral dominance, would want to add any significant fraction of this dysfunctional population to the USA's population or electorate. And this I think was Mr. Sailer's ultimate implicit point.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Brutusale
    @Corvinus

    Since 1976, we've foregone billions of dollars in taxes to improve the economy in Puerto Rico.

    http://premieroffshore.com/detailed-analysis-puerto-ricos-tax-incentive-programs/

    There were quite a few companies taking advantage of the tax breaks back late-70s. A couple of my Massachusetts clients in the mid-80s were still laying off workers here and send jobs down to PR. During one QC visit by a crusty old (white) engineer, I commented on how many shipments were being sent down to PR. He laughed and said that all his vendors must send them nothing but their best product, as the rejection rate at the PR facility was essentially zero until things got out into the field, where the failure rate was a significant multiple of that of their US/European outposts.

    A couple of the tax breaks were rescinded a few years ago, and when I just checked the said company's website I found that they no longer had the PR facility.

    It takes a special talent to believe that PR is any different from the rest of the Caribbean.

  54. @Redneck farmer
    @JimB

    They can be hot porn stars, though.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @JimB

    They can be hot porn stars, though.

    Low skill labor, for sure.

  55. @Jonathan Mason
    Public schools are also terrible in the neighboring Dominican Republic, but has anyone looked at whether a higher percentage of children attend private or church schools in Puerto Rico, as compared to the US.

    Based on my own experience and observations in the Dominican Republic, the quality of Spanish language textbooks and learning materials is very poor, full of errors, incorrect information, spelling and grammatical errors.

    Spanish language television is also very poor, lacking in educational and documentary programs, full of soap operas and very silly game shows. As far as I know there is no PBS in Spanish, although I have seen Peppa Pig cartoon on TV in Spanish--not sure what channel--which are somewhat educational.

    I suspect the number and quality of Spanish language Web sites is also inferior.

    My kids used to speak Spanish only, now they are English only speaking, having forgotten 95% of their Spanish. The amount of stuff that they learn from Youtube and PBS is enormous. Now they can give learned lectures on dinosaurs, but when they spoke Spanish they could not.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Now they can give learned lectures on dinosaurs, but when they spoke Spanish they could not.

    This morning in the car my 5-year-old piped up and asked: “Daddy, if the earth is round, and it moves, why don’t we fall off?”

    Good question. I decided now was the time to give her the Gravity Talk, so I informed her that at the center of the earth there is a huge magnet that sucks everything in. I asked her what happens if you throw an apple in the air, and after a moment’s thought, she said that it would fall to earth, thus replicating the observation of Sir Isaac Newton that apples are subject to the laws of physics.

    It seemed that she was well on the way to a Nobel prize, until she explained the reason for her question. She would like to fly in space so that everyone could smell her farts. Probably not what Sir Isaac had in mind.

    However had she been a Spanish-speaking child and not mine, most likely her parent would have referred her to the Book of Genesis for information about gravity, apples, etc. and told her to stop asking questions.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jonathan Mason

    "However had she been a Spanish-speaking child and not mine, most likely her parent would have referred her to the Book of Genesis for information about gravity, apples, etc. and told her to stop asking questions."

    As opposed to telling her there is a giant magnet in the middle of the world pulling her down?

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Jonathan Mason

    Are you a robot? Is your daughter made of metal? How does that magnet pull trees and such towards the center of the Earth?

  56. In 2017, Puerto Rican FALN terrorist Oscar Lopez Rivera marched through NYC in triumph at the annula Puerto Rican Day parade. In 1975, his group blew up Fraunces Tavern, a deeply significant location for patriotic Americans ( which was the point), among dozens of other terrorist attacks on Americans.

    3 other bombings on New Years eve 1982, Federal Court in Brooklyn, Police HQ and Federal Plaza, designed to kill civilians and especially cops. But years later, FALN leader Oscar Lopez Rivera marched through the city in a publicly-sponsored parade, protected by the same NYC cops his group wanted dead en masse.

    Our local (Puerto Rican) Council Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito, who would sometimes deliver public statements in Spanish and refuse to translate, marched triumphantly by his side.

    All just to say, ‘In Your Face, Yanqui!’

    It’s obvious who won this conflict. We should surrender and grant Puerto Ricans the independence they deserve.

    • Replies: @Dtbb
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Truman assassination attempt.

    , @anon
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    I could MAYBE see America putting up with this IF Puerto Rico was some vast treasure house of wealth for the USA. But it is the exact opposite. America's imperialist streak was/is definitely masochistic.

  57. @attilathehen
    There are no mysteries as to why PR schools are amazingly bad. Start with biology first, i.e., IQ. The average PR IQ is 84. Why is it 84? Because 90% of PRs have black ancestry. Hence, bad schools. Latin America is heterogeneous, but Caucasians will be always be at the top.

    Replies: @pyrrhus, @gate666, @Pat Boyle, @Corvinus, @Hapalong Cassidy, @anon, @PaceLaw

    A more telling comparison would be between Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, the latter of which has at least as much black ancestry as the former if not more so. My guess is that something else is at work here. As in, perhaps the Spaniards that settled PR were of far lower quality than those that settled elsewhere in Latin America. Or there was some sort of dysgenic pressure among the Spaniards, Africans, and Amerindians that was largely unique in PR. And it must also be pointed out that the native Taino were probably less intelligent that the Amerindians of Central and South America.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Dominicans cause many problems in the USA. They are both black populations and need to stay on their islands and not come to the USA.

  58. @Pat Boyle
    @attilathehen

    Yes, I too wondered why Steve compared PRs to Hispanics in America. Did he see"West Side Story" and come to believe they looked more like Rita Moreno than Michelle Obama? Africans have replaced Amerindian peoples everywhere in the Caribbean.

    Anyway what has school got to do with IQ? Nowadays its preferable to use PGS (polygenic score). School success can be measured prenatally. Almost all an individual's intelligence is set at conception

    Replies: @Jack D

    Puerto Rico is somewhat unusual in that most people are a tri-racial mix – European/African/Amerindian. Based on the results on the ground, this is not an especially felicitous combination in terms of brains but the average Puerto Rican indeed does look more like Rita Moreno (who is an actual Puerto Rican) than Moochelle. If you had said Natalie Wood, I would have agreed with you.

    Also, compared to say Cuba, the racial omelet seems to be have pretty well mixed – most Cubans are either distinctly (or at least mostly) white or very black whereas Puerto Ricans tend to be this sort of mocha mix of a bit of everything, so they are not-white but also not-black.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Jack D

    Agree. It's well mixed. Person by person you see evidence of a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

    We once stayed a couple days at some condos on the coast east of town. There was a small town/township inland--looking at the map, I think Loiza--that really was full of blacks.

    But driving around the island, most Puerto Ricans are clearly mixed. And while the mix varies quite a bit person to person it's overall majority white, maybe 20-30% black and the rest indio.

    Overally the Spanish have left behind definitely more demographic pleasant Caribbean colonies than the English or French. It's definitely not Jamaica or Haiti.

    ~~

    Natalie Wood--When she starts stripping in The Great Race, my young heart went pitter-patter, pitter-patter.

    Replies: @attilathehen

    , @sayless
    @Jack D

    Natalie Wood was Ukrainian and Russian.

    , @üeljang
    @Jack D

    Not suggesting that this has anything to do with anything, but Puerto Ricans apparently have a greater amount of Native American ancestry compared to Cubans. Puerto Ricans and Cubans seem to have approximately equal amounts of African genes on average, but Puerto Ricans have more Native American genes, and especially so in regards to mitochondrial DNA (which is inherited in the direct maternal line). In contrast with the Puerto Ricans, most of whom carry Native American mitochondrial DNA (indicating that their matrilineal ancestresses were members of the Taíno or some other Native American population), the Cubans are split about 50/50 between European mitochondrial DNA and African mitochondrial DNA.

  59. Puerto Rico’s Students Are Amazingly Bad

    Fixed

  60. @God Emperor Putin
    I was looking at that website and according to their race statistics, white people make up 51% of 8th graders. Since Arabs and maybe Indians are being counted as white, the number is probably under 50%.

    The breakdown is as follows.

    White 51%
    Hispanic 24%
    Black 14%
    Asian 6%
    American Indian + mixed race 4%

    This is the blackest of black pills. As derby would say “we are doomed”.

    Replies: @Travis, @bomag, @AndrewR, @Diversity Heretic, @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    Don’t you group Indians (from India) with the Asians, like in Britain?

  61. @Lot
    @Hail

    Thanks for the 2014 link.

    The poor scores of PRs, including mainland USA PRs, may be partly caused by their naked stone-age islander amerindian ancestry, far more primative that the literate urban civilizations seen in mainland pre-Columbian Latin American. The initial settlement of PR may have been a bottleneck event that also depressed intelligence.

    There has also been brain drain out of PR since they've been citizens, 100 years worth. Due to intermarriage and assimilation, the most talented PR migrants of 1900-1950 have descendants who mostly do not identify as PR.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @bomag, @AnotherDad

    The poor scores of PRs, including mainland USA PRs, may be partly caused by their naked stone-age islander amerindian ancestry, far more primative that the literate urban civilizations seen in mainland pre-Columbian Latin American. The initial settlement of PR may have been a bottleneck event that also depressed intelligence.

    There has also been brain drain out of PR since they’ve been citizens, 100 years worth. Due to intermarriage and assimilation, the most talented PR migrants of 1900-1950 have descendants who mostly do not identify as PR.

    Calling the Aztec’s a “literate urban civilization” is a stretch. They had a pictographic script with some syllabic markers that the priests could use. It’s not like there was even any literature that upper class people were sitting down in the evening reading, much less signage or schooling. And there would have been essentially no selection based on literacy like Chinese, Indian Brahmins, the Jews had, but which was also operating on middle class Europeans.

    Not denying there is some sort of selection just based on being in a agricultural civilization with agriculture + trade, but don’t think there’s much of bump there you can ascribe to “literacy”.

    ~~

    A “brain drain” affect to the mainland could certainly be operating. Smart, motivated folks getting the heck out. On the other hand, if you’re a white-elite “winner” in Puerto Rico, why leave to compete with smarter white people on the mainland? While if you’re struggling there it’s been extremely easy to decamp to the States especially in the post-airline deregulation environment of the last couple generations.

    How this balances out … hard to say.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @AnotherDad

    "On the other hand, if you’re a white-elite “winner” in Puerto Rico, why leave to compete with smarter white people on the mainland"

    If you stand to inherit a stable business or have the connections to get a government job, then you'd want to stay. For the rest of the 105+ IQ PRs, you'd want to leave.

    WV's brain drain seems to have cost the remaining population about 1 IQ point per generation, about 3 total compared to the US white average.

    Regarding the Aztecs, they remind me of the Minonian and pre-Greek Egyptian civilization: Palace centered, writing used for calendars and accounting, bronze age weapons. Central Mexico had a similar level of civilization in the 500s AD that went through a sudden near collapse and slow recovery.

    For the sake of IQ comparisons, Egypt, Iraq, and India had Aztec type bronze age civs, and those peoples are a lot smarter than Australian aboriginals and other peoples who never went beyond the stone age.

    So it is reasonable to conclude that Mexican Indians before Columbus had a Iraq/India/Egypt level genotype IQ of about 90, while the Caribs were more like 80. Eastern North American indians were not civilized, but had cold winters to boost their IQs. Their larger overall size probably was also good for a slightly larger IQ from bigger brains. California Indians were helpless and naked when the Spanish encountered and easily enslaved them.

    Replies: @Joe Schmoe

  62. @Buzz Mohawk
    Sailer is at his best when he presents mean charts.

    Those charts are really mean.

    Below the mean really.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Never fear, somehow it’s all white guys’ fault.

  63. Anonymous[165] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason
    @Jonathan Mason


    Now they can give learned lectures on dinosaurs, but when they spoke Spanish they could not.
     
    This morning in the car my 5-year-old piped up and asked: "Daddy, if the earth is round, and it moves, why don't we fall off?"

    Good question. I decided now was the time to give her the Gravity Talk, so I informed her that at the center of the earth there is a huge magnet that sucks everything in. I asked her what happens if you throw an apple in the air, and after a moment's thought, she said that it would fall to earth, thus replicating the observation of Sir Isaac Newton that apples are subject to the laws of physics.

    It seemed that she was well on the way to a Nobel prize, until she explained the reason for her question. She would like to fly in space so that everyone could smell her farts. Probably not what Sir Isaac had in mind.

    However had she been a Spanish-speaking child and not mine, most likely her parent would have referred her to the Book of Genesis for information about gravity, apples, etc. and told her to stop asking questions.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Jus' Sayin'...

    “However had she been a Spanish-speaking child and not mine, most likely her parent would have referred her to the Book of Genesis for information about gravity, apples, etc. and told her to stop asking questions.”

    As opposed to telling her there is a giant magnet in the middle of the world pulling her down?

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Anonymous


    As opposed to telling her there is a giant magnet in the middle of the world pulling her down?
     
    Which is basically true, and anyway when you are talking to a five-year-old you have to use pretty simple concepts and words that they understand. Gravity and magnetism are not the same thing, but they are both invisible forces that pull things towards them. St. Augustine actually believed that magnetism was proof of miracles, but we have moved on a bit, and top scientists would dispute that. Likewise seeds growing into plants. Amazing, but not strictly miraculous.
  64. @Rob McX
    Why on earth does the US keep PR as a territory, with its inhabitants enjoying full citizenship and the financial support of American taxpayers? It could locate military bases there without paying that huge cost.

    Replies: @Alfa158, @El Dato, @J. Dart, @AnotherDad

    Why on earth does the US keep PR as a territory, with its inhabitants enjoying full citizenship and the financial support of American taxpayers? It could locate military bases there without paying that huge cost.

    Beyond the moral corruption and stupidity of the US climbing onto the colonialism bandwagon–a pox upon McKinley, Roosevelt, etc.–the US missed a couple absolutely gold plated opportunities to dump Puerto Rico:

    — 1946, with Philippine Independence with the barbarity of the German and Japanese imperial grabs was fresh and getting on the side of national independence was good for Cold War

    — at the end of the Cold War and the Soviet Union; saying, “it’s over, we won” and pushing national self-determination.

    It’s hard to extract ourselves now. Especially post-Maria. There would be a mad rush of Puerto Ricans to the US. But after spending some money rebuilding … we need to pull the plug and get out.

    If we’re stuck with the Puerto Ricans seems like the least we could ask is for them all to come to the states, and let some white settlers take over the island. Developed by white people it would be a really nice piece of vacation real estate.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @AnotherDad


    If we’re stuck with the Puerto Ricans seems like the least we could ask is for them all to come to the states, and let some white settlers take over the island. Developed by white people it would be a really nice piece of vacation real estate.
     
    Apt analysis.

    But the non-West seems to be playing Puerto Rico to the West today; it's transfer payments and migration across the board. Nice places are being consumed. What will survive long term?
  65. @Anonymous
    PR is not really America at all. It's another scam.

    Ricans themselves aren't panicked about education quality in PR. We're suckers for dumping tax dollars into that pit.

    It's an unending mission to get everyone in the world to think and act like Yankee Progressives.

    Insane.

    We need ISOLATIONISM in order to heal from the disease of empire.

    Replies: @Trevor H., @bomag, @Bragadocious

    We won’t get it from Puerto Rico. If you listen to them talk, they sound like an estranged wife about to enter divorce court. You would be nothing without me. I’ve contributed everything to this marriage. Puerto Ricans love to trot out fake stats about how they serve in the military at higher rates than gringos. (no word on honorable discharges, let alone heroism). In other words, Puerto Ricans want to be paid to go away.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Bragadocious

    "In other words, Puerto Ricans want to be paid to go away"

    We should accept any reasonable offer. How about $15 billion?

    Replies: @Brutusale

    , @Gary in Gramercy
    @Bragadocious

    Q: Why is divorce so expensive?

    A: Because it's worth it.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  66. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    In 2017, Puerto Rican FALN terrorist Oscar Lopez Rivera marched through NYC in triumph at the annula Puerto Rican Day parade. In 1975, his group blew up Fraunces Tavern, a deeply significant location for patriotic Americans ( which was the point), among dozens of other terrorist attacks on Americans.

    3 other bombings on New Years eve 1982, Federal Court in Brooklyn, Police HQ and Federal Plaza, designed to kill civilians and especially cops. But years later, FALN leader Oscar Lopez Rivera marched through the city in a publicly-sponsored parade, protected by the same NYC cops his group wanted dead en masse.

    Our local (Puerto Rican) Council Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito, who would sometimes deliver public statements in Spanish and refuse to translate, marched triumphantly by his side.

    All just to say, 'In Your Face, Yanqui!'

    It's obvious who won this conflict. We should surrender and grant Puerto Ricans the independence they deserve.

    Replies: @Dtbb, @anon

    Truman assassination attempt.

  67. My impression is that PR pays teachers badly, but spends a lot on administration.

    Bad students, bad teachers, or bad administrators? I’m guessing all three.

    I’m also guessing that the badly paid PR teachers have as much difficulty passing the teacher certification exam as do American blacks.

    No matter, the NAEP is racist.

  68. BTW, got to give props to Mississippi. Given the raw material they have, they did well–kept themselves off the bottom. (Contrast with Alabama which has a much lower black %.)

    Kentucky on the other hand–needs work. They are well below the US black percentage. They have have some of same hillbilly and brain drain problems as West Virgina. But they should be able to do better–average. Getting beat by Tennessee, Georgia!, Texas–not impressive.

    On the other hand, Texas–very impressive it’s able to hang around average.

    ~~

    The notable thing in these numbers–for Americans already inured to black/white, “proximity to the Canadian border” is how much Hispanics correlated with educational mediocrity. New Mexico’s an absolute pit. Nevada’s become a pit. California–with all it’s advantages–has been dragged down into the pit. Arizona, Texas, while still around average are no doubt on the way.

  69. @Jack D
    @Pat Boyle

    Puerto Rico is somewhat unusual in that most people are a tri-racial mix - European/African/Amerindian. Based on the results on the ground, this is not an especially felicitous combination in terms of brains but the average Puerto Rican indeed does look more like Rita Moreno (who is an actual Puerto Rican) than Moochelle. If you had said Natalie Wood, I would have agreed with you.

    Also, compared to say Cuba, the racial omelet seems to be have pretty well mixed - most Cubans are either distinctly (or at least mostly) white or very black whereas Puerto Ricans tend to be this sort of mocha mix of a bit of everything, so they are not-white but also not-black.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @sayless, @üeljang

    Agree. It’s well mixed. Person by person you see evidence of a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

    We once stayed a couple days at some condos on the coast east of town. There was a small town/township inland–looking at the map, I think Loiza–that really was full of blacks.

    But driving around the island, most Puerto Ricans are clearly mixed. And while the mix varies quite a bit person to person it’s overall majority white, maybe 20-30% black and the rest indio.

    Overally the Spanish have left behind definitely more demographic pleasant Caribbean colonies than the English or French. It’s definitely not Jamaica or Haiti.

    ~~

    Natalie Wood–When she starts stripping in The Great Race, my young heart went pitter-patter, pitter-patter.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    @AnotherDad

    20%-30% means quadroon. You can still see that they are black.

  70. @AnotherDad
    @Rob McX


    Why on earth does the US keep PR as a territory, with its inhabitants enjoying full citizenship and the financial support of American taxpayers? It could locate military bases there without paying that huge cost.
     
    Beyond the moral corruption and stupidity of the US climbing onto the colonialism bandwagon--a pox upon McKinley, Roosevelt, etc.--the US missed a couple absolutely gold plated opportunities to dump Puerto Rico:

    -- 1946, with Philippine Independence with the barbarity of the German and Japanese imperial grabs was fresh and getting on the side of national independence was good for Cold War

    -- at the end of the Cold War and the Soviet Union; saying, "it's over, we won" and pushing national self-determination.

    It's hard to extract ourselves now. Especially post-Maria. There would be a mad rush of Puerto Ricans to the US. But after spending some money rebuilding ... we need to pull the plug and get out.

    If we're stuck with the Puerto Ricans seems like the least we could ask is for them all to come to the states, and let some white settlers take over the island. Developed by white people it would be a really nice piece of vacation real estate.

    Replies: @bomag

    If we’re stuck with the Puerto Ricans seems like the least we could ask is for them all to come to the states, and let some white settlers take over the island. Developed by white people it would be a really nice piece of vacation real estate.

    Apt analysis.

    But the non-West seems to be playing Puerto Rico to the West today; it’s transfer payments and migration across the board. Nice places are being consumed. What will survive long term?

  71. @Hapalong Cassidy
    @attilathehen

    A more telling comparison would be between Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, the latter of which has at least as much black ancestry as the former if not more so. My guess is that something else is at work here. As in, perhaps the Spaniards that settled PR were of far lower quality than those that settled elsewhere in Latin America. Or there was some sort of dysgenic pressure among the Spaniards, Africans, and Amerindians that was largely unique in PR. And it must also be pointed out that the native Taino were probably less intelligent that the Amerindians of Central and South America.

    Replies: @attilathehen

    Dominicans cause many problems in the USA. They are both black populations and need to stay on their islands and not come to the USA.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  72. @Corvinus
    @attilathehen

    Actually, there are a myriad of factors. Of course, Mr. Sailer chose to NOT NOTICE them as a "pundit".

    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/puerto-rico-economy-education-declines/408277

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/puerto-rico-university-system-budget-cuts#.aoy00ZooR

    Replies: @attilathehen, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Brutusale

    The items you claim Mr. Sailor has not noticed are completely connected to the low PR IQ because of their black ancestry.

  73. @Anonymous
    @Jonathan Mason

    "However had she been a Spanish-speaking child and not mine, most likely her parent would have referred her to the Book of Genesis for information about gravity, apples, etc. and told her to stop asking questions."

    As opposed to telling her there is a giant magnet in the middle of the world pulling her down?

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    As opposed to telling her there is a giant magnet in the middle of the world pulling her down?

    Which is basically true, and anyway when you are talking to a five-year-old you have to use pretty simple concepts and words that they understand. Gravity and magnetism are not the same thing, but they are both invisible forces that pull things towards them. St. Augustine actually believed that magnetism was proof of miracles, but we have moved on a bit, and top scientists would dispute that. Likewise seeds growing into plants. Amazing, but not strictly miraculous.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  74. It would be interesting to compare Puerto Rican schools to all-black schools in the US to see which is worse. If the Puerto Rican schools are worse, that would be bizarre, because Hispanics in the US score higher than US blacks.

  75. @gate666
    @attilathehen

    then why do they perform so badly compared to hispanics who have similar iq.

    Replies: @attilathehen

    Hispanics can be of any race. The largest non-white groups in Latin America are Amerindians (Asians) and blacks. Asians are second in intelligence, blacks are last.

    In Mexico, the average IQ is 88. They have an 80% Amerindian population but they manage to get closer to the 90 IQ marker so there is a slight advantage. Again, I don’t want these Mexican Amerindians in the USA, but Mexico does have a wealthy economy. So despite their high crime (which is actually much lower than Brazil’s or Central America’s), they are managing to create a successful economy. Also, being on the US’s border let’s them see how working hard and a free market economy can improve their lives if they follow such policies.

    In Central America, except for Costa Rica which is mostly white, the average IQ is 82-84. Nothing can be done there. But again, being Asian (of whatever ethnicity, i.e., Amerindian) is better than being black. Even the Philippines (avg. IQ 84) is in better shape than Puerto Rico or northern Brazil.

  76. @pyrrhus
    @attilathehen

    Wow! PR's have the same IQ as the illegals streaming across the southern Border...Wonder how they do on math tests?!

    Replies: @attilathehen

    It depends on the illegals. If they come from Central America, they will do poorly. The average Mexican IQ is 88 so there’s a little more to work with.

  77. Puerto Ricans perform about the same here in New Jersey , so we should not place all the blame on the schools

  78. @AnotherDad
    @Jack D

    Agree. It's well mixed. Person by person you see evidence of a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

    We once stayed a couple days at some condos on the coast east of town. There was a small town/township inland--looking at the map, I think Loiza--that really was full of blacks.

    But driving around the island, most Puerto Ricans are clearly mixed. And while the mix varies quite a bit person to person it's overall majority white, maybe 20-30% black and the rest indio.

    Overally the Spanish have left behind definitely more demographic pleasant Caribbean colonies than the English or French. It's definitely not Jamaica or Haiti.

    ~~

    Natalie Wood--When she starts stripping in The Great Race, my young heart went pitter-patter, pitter-patter.

    Replies: @attilathehen

    20%-30% means quadroon. You can still see that they are black.

  79. What’s Wrong with Puerto Rico? Islam and the “GiG” Economy …

    Farfetched? Not at all. Recall that the Berbers occupied Spain and Portugal for about 700 years. The impact of Islam and Islamic culture on both Spain and Portugal have been immense in big and little ways. Indeed, as I have read and been told by Portuguese students, the Portuguese language still suffers under the burden of Arabic grammar. And it might be interesting to repose Franco in the image of an Islamic sheik. What amazed me about my time in Puerto Rico is how much the architecture, social arrangements, and way of life reminded me of the Middle East.

    Let me offer that one of the defining and restraining characteristics of Islam is the “GiG” economy. In Islamic culture, the divide between the haves and have-nots is permanent. “Inshallah” … God willing because nothing happens unless God wills it. Your lot in life, regardless of how marginal or not, is God’s will.

    People inherit their place in society and life … reminiscent of Medieval Europe. There is little social mobility. Culture adjusts. Ways develop for all levels of society to have a “GiG” to sustain their place in life to keep the peace. Hence, the “GiG” economy. For example, in the Puerto Rican educational system, teachers tend to inherit their positions … just as in Mexico people tend to inherit their jobs at Pemex. These historical influences are easy to perceive when one has experienced life in the Middle East and lived their social and class arrangements.

    Unfortunately, the “GiG” economy encourages corruption and economic stagnation. People tend to “circle the wagons” to protect their little piece of the action … to protect their family, their clan, (and if relevant) tribal, racial, and religious interests. The elite stay elite; the mestizo stay mestizo, and campesinos stay campesinos. Nothing changes.

    Then, things change. NAFTA shattered Mexico’s “GiG” economy. Hurricane Maria shattered Puerto Rico’s “GiG” economy. It exposed the lack of investment in economic infrastructure and efficient economic processes. All of a sudden, under duress, nothing works. Nothing works because there is no economic incentive for anything to work … except for the periodic distribution of wealth according to one’s ability to demand and get recompense for one’s hereditary place and status in society.

    After the change, those without power found themselves destitute. Their only escape from a wrecked “GiG” economy is escaping to El Norte. Hence, the depopulation of the Puerto Rican and Mexican underclasses immigrating to the United States where they, understandably, start reconstituting their “GiG” economies.

    We need to think twice about the phenomenon of Hispanic immigrants, regardless of their country of origin, importing the concept of the “GiG” economy to the United States. Poverty, economic stagnation, and corruption come with it. One might argue about the influence of Islam, but the end result is the same.

    P.S. I’m using the word “GiG” in the old sense of having work … being employed within a stagnant economic and class-based system rather than, in the new sense, of being an independent subcontractor to an IT firm. Okay, so they might be the same.

    • Replies: @niteranger
    @TheJester

    The original Berbers were not black. That's a recent admixture. The Moors weren't black either; they were probably about the color of the late great Commander Kahdafi. Spain has an average IQ around 99 to 100 and Libya around 85 so it's quite possible that these descendants of whatever happened in Spain were probably in the 90's.

    I agree with your observations however on the PR not being prepared for anything. Prior to the hurricane hitting the island the people were told to prepare and ration some food and water. They did nothing. They didn't care. These people cannot build and maintain any infrastructure. Same goes for many parts of Mexico. I believe it takes an IQ of around 120 to be an engineer. Just look at Africa China is taking over. They can't build anything. China just built a railroad in Kenya. These people must rely on others to build and maintain anything long term. They are incapable of such projects.

  80. @Steve Sailer
    @Grumpy

    http://takimag.com/article/polanskis_ghost_writer_and_americanising_britain/#axzz5R1R86Ld2

    It doesn't have that exact phrase in it.

    Lately Google has been putting Takimag.com articles down toward the bottom searches.

    Replies: @Grumpy

    Thank you, Mr. Sailer! And no thanks to Google.

    After you mentioned it more than once, I wanted to watch The Ghost Writer and finally saw it last night. Good movie.

  81. @Jack D
    @Pat Boyle

    Puerto Rico is somewhat unusual in that most people are a tri-racial mix - European/African/Amerindian. Based on the results on the ground, this is not an especially felicitous combination in terms of brains but the average Puerto Rican indeed does look more like Rita Moreno (who is an actual Puerto Rican) than Moochelle. If you had said Natalie Wood, I would have agreed with you.

    Also, compared to say Cuba, the racial omelet seems to be have pretty well mixed - most Cubans are either distinctly (or at least mostly) white or very black whereas Puerto Ricans tend to be this sort of mocha mix of a bit of everything, so they are not-white but also not-black.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @sayless, @üeljang

    Natalie Wood was Ukrainian and Russian.

  82. @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    I've read that the Spanish settlers of Puerto Rico mostly originated from the Canary Islands - if that has any relevance.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @anonymous, @Logan

    I’ve read some recently about the Canaries. The inhabitants when the Spanish arrived were basically Berbers. As is usually the case in history, the Spanish pretty much killed all the men and took all the women for themselves, so those who emigrated to other parts of the Spanish Empire were generally something close to half Spanish, half Berber genetically speaking. This changed over time as fully European immigrants immigrated from Spain, especially when women started coming.

    But then of course the Spanish from Spain got a major infusion of Berber and, to a lesser degree, Arab blood during the period when Muslims ruled much of the peninsula. So it’s not unreasonable to think of the inhabitants of the Canaries who moved to other parts of the Empire as roughly half Berber.

  83. @AnotherDad
    @Lot


    The poor scores of PRs, including mainland USA PRs, may be partly caused by their naked stone-age islander amerindian ancestry, far more primative that the literate urban civilizations seen in mainland pre-Columbian Latin American. The initial settlement of PR may have been a bottleneck event that also depressed intelligence.

    There has also been brain drain out of PR since they’ve been citizens, 100 years worth. Due to intermarriage and assimilation, the most talented PR migrants of 1900-1950 have descendants who mostly do not identify as PR.
     

    Calling the Aztec's a "literate urban civilization" is a stretch. They had a pictographic script with some syllabic markers that the priests could use. It's not like there was even any literature that upper class people were sitting down in the evening reading, much less signage or schooling. And there would have been essentially no selection based on literacy like Chinese, Indian Brahmins, the Jews had, but which was also operating on middle class Europeans.

    Not denying there is some sort of selection just based on being in a agricultural civilization with agriculture + trade, but don't think there's much of bump there you can ascribe to "literacy".

    ~~

    A "brain drain" affect to the mainland could certainly be operating. Smart, motivated folks getting the heck out. On the other hand, if you're a white-elite "winner" in Puerto Rico, why leave to compete with smarter white people on the mainland? While if you're struggling there it's been extremely easy to decamp to the States especially in the post-airline deregulation environment of the last couple generations.

    How this balances out … hard to say.

    Replies: @Lot

    “On the other hand, if you’re a white-elite “winner” in Puerto Rico, why leave to compete with smarter white people on the mainland”

    If you stand to inherit a stable business or have the connections to get a government job, then you’d want to stay. For the rest of the 105+ IQ PRs, you’d want to leave.

    WV’s brain drain seems to have cost the remaining population about 1 IQ point per generation, about 3 total compared to the US white average.

    Regarding the Aztecs, they remind me of the Minonian and pre-Greek Egyptian civilization: Palace centered, writing used for calendars and accounting, bronze age weapons. Central Mexico had a similar level of civilization in the 500s AD that went through a sudden near collapse and slow recovery.

    For the sake of IQ comparisons, Egypt, Iraq, and India had Aztec type bronze age civs, and those peoples are a lot smarter than Australian aboriginals and other peoples who never went beyond the stone age.

    So it is reasonable to conclude that Mexican Indians before Columbus had a Iraq/India/Egypt level genotype IQ of about 90, while the Caribs were more like 80. Eastern North American indians were not civilized, but had cold winters to boost their IQs. Their larger overall size probably was also good for a slightly larger IQ from bigger brains. California Indians were helpless and naked when the Spanish encountered and easily enslaved them.

    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    @Lot



    So it is reasonable to conclude that Mexican Indians before Columbus had a Iraq/India/Egypt level genotype IQ of about 90,
     
    I don't know about the average, but the folks who built the pyramids in Egypt and came up with the zero in India, or wrote the Hammurabi code in Iraq were not 90 IQ "below basic" level folks. They didn't just build it, they conceived it from nothing. The lesson from those cultures is more likely that you can't let the 90 IQ folks take over.

    Replies: @Ibound1

  84. @Bragadocious
    @Anonymous

    We won't get it from Puerto Rico. If you listen to them talk, they sound like an estranged wife about to enter divorce court. You would be nothing without me. I've contributed everything to this marriage. Puerto Ricans love to trot out fake stats about how they serve in the military at higher rates than gringos. (no word on honorable discharges, let alone heroism). In other words, Puerto Ricans want to be paid to go away.

    Replies: @Lot, @Gary in Gramercy

    “In other words, Puerto Ricans want to be paid to go away”

    We should accept any reasonable offer. How about $15 billion?

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Lot

    Nah, this should do the trick.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l91ISfcuzDw

  85. @JimB

    Nationally, Hispanics don’t do all that well on average but they do an awful lot better than in Puerto Rico: 57% of Hispanics nationally score Basic or above, vs. 9% in PR.
     
    Which is not the same as saying 57% of Puerto Ricans in the US score basic or above. I suspect their scores go up somewhat in schools on the mainland but probably not by much. Puerto Ricans are useless to a modern information economy and probably make lousy carpenters, truck drivers, and security guards to boot.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @AndrewR, @Ed

    There’s a 27 year old Atlantic article about the Puerto Rican mainland underclass. The author found that it was worse off than the black underclass which he also studied. Not sure if anything has change since then.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/politics/poverty/othrund.htm

    As soon as the Hispanic category is broken down by group, what leaps out at anyone who takes even a casual look at the census data is that Puerto Ricans are the worst off ethnic group in the United States. For a period in the mid-1980s nearly half of all Puerto Rican families were living in poverty. It seems commonsensical that for Hispanics poverty would be a function of their unfamiliarity with the mainland United States, inability to speak English, and lack of education. But Mexican Americans, who are no more proficient in English than Puerto Ricans, less likely to have finished high school, and more likely to have arrived here very recently, have a much lower poverty rate. The Journal of the American Medical Association reported earlier this year that, as the newsletter of a leading Puerto Rican organization put it, “On almost every health indicator…Puerto Ricans fared worse” than Mexican-Americans or Cubans. Infant mortality was 50 percent higher than among Mexican-Americans, and nearly three times as high as among Cubans.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Ed

    Thanks.

  86. @Lot
    @AnotherDad

    "On the other hand, if you’re a white-elite “winner” in Puerto Rico, why leave to compete with smarter white people on the mainland"

    If you stand to inherit a stable business or have the connections to get a government job, then you'd want to stay. For the rest of the 105+ IQ PRs, you'd want to leave.

    WV's brain drain seems to have cost the remaining population about 1 IQ point per generation, about 3 total compared to the US white average.

    Regarding the Aztecs, they remind me of the Minonian and pre-Greek Egyptian civilization: Palace centered, writing used for calendars and accounting, bronze age weapons. Central Mexico had a similar level of civilization in the 500s AD that went through a sudden near collapse and slow recovery.

    For the sake of IQ comparisons, Egypt, Iraq, and India had Aztec type bronze age civs, and those peoples are a lot smarter than Australian aboriginals and other peoples who never went beyond the stone age.

    So it is reasonable to conclude that Mexican Indians before Columbus had a Iraq/India/Egypt level genotype IQ of about 90, while the Caribs were more like 80. Eastern North American indians were not civilized, but had cold winters to boost their IQs. Their larger overall size probably was also good for a slightly larger IQ from bigger brains. California Indians were helpless and naked when the Spanish encountered and easily enslaved them.

    Replies: @Joe Schmoe

    So it is reasonable to conclude that Mexican Indians before Columbus had a Iraq/India/Egypt level genotype IQ of about 90,

    I don’t know about the average, but the folks who built the pyramids in Egypt and came up with the zero in India, or wrote the Hammurabi code in Iraq were not 90 IQ “below basic” level folks. They didn’t just build it, they conceived it from nothing. The lesson from those cultures is more likely that you can’t let the 90 IQ folks take over.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Ibound1
    @Joe Schmoe

    The Maya had a writing system that could express any spoken sound, the number zero, sophisticated mathematics, astronomy, architecture and art. They were an advanced civilization in every way. And anyone who visits the Incan ruins of Peru cannot help but be impressed by their phenomenal feats of engineering. Their agricultural technique was not inferior to Europe. Clearly these societies possessed very high IQ individuals. It is a pity they were destroyed before they reached their maximum potential.

  87. @Bragadocious
    @Anonymous

    We won't get it from Puerto Rico. If you listen to them talk, they sound like an estranged wife about to enter divorce court. You would be nothing without me. I've contributed everything to this marriage. Puerto Ricans love to trot out fake stats about how they serve in the military at higher rates than gringos. (no word on honorable discharges, let alone heroism). In other words, Puerto Ricans want to be paid to go away.

    Replies: @Lot, @Gary in Gramercy

    Q: Why is divorce so expensive?

    A: Because it’s worth it.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Gary in Gramercy

    Speaking of hurricanes and divorce:

    'Why is a woman like a hurricane?'.

    'She's wet and warm when she comes, but takes your house away when she goes'.

  88. @Corvinus
    @attilathehen

    Actually, there are a myriad of factors. Of course, Mr. Sailer chose to NOT NOTICE them as a "pundit".

    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/puerto-rico-economy-education-declines/408277

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/puerto-rico-university-system-budget-cuts#.aoy00ZooR

    Replies: @attilathehen, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Brutusale

    Implicit in Sailer’s argument, had you not chosen purposefully to misunderstand it, is that Puerto Rico’s politics are utterly corrupt. This is largely because Puerto Ricans seem incapable of making good choices in the voting booth. This contributes to the conditions that create bad schools. Examples are a top heavy public school bureaucracy larded with highly paid but utterly incompetent “administrators”, i.e., political patronage, and poorly paid teachers because the money to pay for the patronage has to come from somewhere. To compound this disaster some 80% of the public school student population, assuming a normal distribution, have an IQ, e.g., a capacity for academic learning, below the US national average. And of course these poorly educated and on average rather unintelligent young people will grow up to form a new electorate, perpetuating the on going disaster.

    Only a prog or dimocrat, deranged by partisan fantasies of electoral dominance, would want to add any significant fraction of this dysfunctional population to the USA’s population or electorate. And this I think was Mr. Sailer’s ultimate implicit point.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    "Implicit in Sailer’s argument, had you not chosen purposefully to misunderstand it, is that Puerto Rico’s politics are utterly corrupt."

    What I understood completely are the different reasons why Puerto Rico has a substandard educational system, which is why I linked to those articles. Included is a discussion of that corruption.

    "This is largely because Puerto Ricans seem incapable of making good choices in the voting booth."

    No, this is largely due to leadership taking advantage of public trust.

    "Examples are a top heavy public school bureaucracy larded with highly paid but utterly incompetent “administrators”, i.e., political patronage, and poorly paid teachers because the money to pay for the patronage has to come from somewhere. To compound this disaster some 80% of the public school student population, assuming a normal distribution, have an IQ, e.g., a capacity for academic learning, below the US national average. And of course these poorly educated and on average rather unintelligent young people will grow up to form a new electorate, perpetuating the on going disaster."

    Which was summarized in the links provided.

    "Only a prog or dimocrat, deranged by partisan fantasies of electoral dominance, would want to add any significant fraction of this dysfunctional population to the USA’s population or electorate. And this I think was Mr. Sailer’s ultimate implicit point."

    You are offering a red herring here. The fact of the matter is that the federal government under Trump has yet to fulfill its obligation of aiding one of its territories, who are citizens of the United States.

  89. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jonathan Mason


    Now they can give learned lectures on dinosaurs, but when they spoke Spanish they could not.
     
    This morning in the car my 5-year-old piped up and asked: "Daddy, if the earth is round, and it moves, why don't we fall off?"

    Good question. I decided now was the time to give her the Gravity Talk, so I informed her that at the center of the earth there is a huge magnet that sucks everything in. I asked her what happens if you throw an apple in the air, and after a moment's thought, she said that it would fall to earth, thus replicating the observation of Sir Isaac Newton that apples are subject to the laws of physics.

    It seemed that she was well on the way to a Nobel prize, until she explained the reason for her question. She would like to fly in space so that everyone could smell her farts. Probably not what Sir Isaac had in mind.

    However had she been a Spanish-speaking child and not mine, most likely her parent would have referred her to the Book of Genesis for information about gravity, apples, etc. and told her to stop asking questions.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Jus' Sayin'...

    Are you a robot? Is your daughter made of metal? How does that magnet pull trees and such towards the center of the Earth?

  90. When all is said and done, it’s clear that we would be better off had the USA lost the Spanish-American War.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @anon
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    100% a war of choice for the USA. Spain was desperate to avoid war and bent over backwards to prevent conflict. But America wasn't having it.

    Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...

  91. You are right about Texas. We have had fine schools in the past, some areas with better schools than others. By and large, in areas where the Hispanics are about at an average in numbers with whites, the Hispanics will do about as good in school grades as the whites. Hispanics who have been here several generations aren’t far from us whites.

    Its when you get into places like San Antonio where you have large concentrations of Hispanics where you find that many don’t or won’t speak English, they do poorly on test scores and their whole lifestyle is similar to the shithole their parents or even grand-parents came from. It is only when the Hispanic population is close to the whites that they speak only English, drive correctly and strive to compete with whites for jobs and advancement. And in that setting they will actually learn.

    Today, almost all our k thru 12 schools are fully controlled by communist administration. The teachers are ruled by their commie unions, and from what I have seen, many teachers are going commie as well. Here in Texas the average teacher turn-over is less than five years. That tells me that many new teachers don’t last 2 years before they find that they can’t put up with the commie curriculum and admin. The ones that stay are usually the dregs of humanity to begin with and top it off with not being able to survive in a normal adult world, hence they seek children.

    Texas schools are gone…toast. If we as a society who want the best edumacation for our children, we will have to shut down all our schools and vett everyone connected to the schools, including the food supplies and book-binders. I wonder how many parents of school age children know what is in their kid’s school books. They are Marxist in every way.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  92. @TheJester
    What's Wrong with Puerto Rico? Islam and the "GiG" Economy ...

    Farfetched? Not at all. Recall that the Berbers occupied Spain and Portugal for about 700 years. The impact of Islam and Islamic culture on both Spain and Portugal have been immense in big and little ways. Indeed, as I have read and been told by Portuguese students, the Portuguese language still suffers under the burden of Arabic grammar. And it might be interesting to repose Franco in the image of an Islamic sheik. What amazed me about my time in Puerto Rico is how much the architecture, social arrangements, and way of life reminded me of the Middle East.

    Let me offer that one of the defining and restraining characteristics of Islam is the "GiG" economy. In Islamic culture, the divide between the haves and have-nots is permanent. "Inshallah" ... God willing because nothing happens unless God wills it. Your lot in life, regardless of how marginal or not, is God's will.

    People inherit their place in society and life ... reminiscent of Medieval Europe. There is little social mobility. Culture adjusts. Ways develop for all levels of society to have a "GiG" to sustain their place in life to keep the peace. Hence, the "GiG" economy. For example, in the Puerto Rican educational system, teachers tend to inherit their positions ... just as in Mexico people tend to inherit their jobs at Pemex. These historical influences are easy to perceive when one has experienced life in the Middle East and lived their social and class arrangements.

    Unfortunately, the "GiG" economy encourages corruption and economic stagnation. People tend to "circle the wagons" to protect their little piece of the action ... to protect their family, their clan, (and if relevant) tribal, racial, and religious interests. The elite stay elite; the mestizo stay mestizo, and campesinos stay campesinos. Nothing changes.

    Then, things change. NAFTA shattered Mexico's "GiG" economy. Hurricane Maria shattered Puerto Rico's "GiG" economy. It exposed the lack of investment in economic infrastructure and efficient economic processes. All of a sudden, under duress, nothing works. Nothing works because there is no economic incentive for anything to work ... except for the periodic distribution of wealth according to one's ability to demand and get recompense for one's hereditary place and status in society.

    After the change, those without power found themselves destitute. Their only escape from a wrecked "GiG" economy is escaping to El Norte. Hence, the depopulation of the Puerto Rican and Mexican underclasses immigrating to the United States where they, understandably, start reconstituting their "GiG" economies.

    We need to think twice about the phenomenon of Hispanic immigrants, regardless of their country of origin, importing the concept of the "GiG" economy to the United States. Poverty, economic stagnation, and corruption come with it. One might argue about the influence of Islam, but the end result is the same.

    P.S. I'm using the word "GiG" in the old sense of having work ... being employed within a stagnant economic and class-based system rather than, in the new sense, of being an independent subcontractor to an IT firm. Okay, so they might be the same.

    Replies: @niteranger

    The original Berbers were not black. That’s a recent admixture. The Moors weren’t black either; they were probably about the color of the late great Commander Kahdafi. Spain has an average IQ around 99 to 100 and Libya around 85 so it’s quite possible that these descendants of whatever happened in Spain were probably in the 90’s.

    I agree with your observations however on the PR not being prepared for anything. Prior to the hurricane hitting the island the people were told to prepare and ration some food and water. They did nothing. They didn’t care. These people cannot build and maintain any infrastructure. Same goes for many parts of Mexico. I believe it takes an IQ of around 120 to be an engineer. Just look at Africa China is taking over. They can’t build anything. China just built a railroad in Kenya. These people must rely on others to build and maintain anything long term. They are incapable of such projects.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  93. @Joe Schmoe
    @Lot



    So it is reasonable to conclude that Mexican Indians before Columbus had a Iraq/India/Egypt level genotype IQ of about 90,
     
    I don't know about the average, but the folks who built the pyramids in Egypt and came up with the zero in India, or wrote the Hammurabi code in Iraq were not 90 IQ "below basic" level folks. They didn't just build it, they conceived it from nothing. The lesson from those cultures is more likely that you can't let the 90 IQ folks take over.

    Replies: @Ibound1

    The Maya had a writing system that could express any spoken sound, the number zero, sophisticated mathematics, astronomy, architecture and art. They were an advanced civilization in every way. And anyone who visits the Incan ruins of Peru cannot help but be impressed by their phenomenal feats of engineering. Their agricultural technique was not inferior to Europe. Clearly these societies possessed very high IQ individuals. It is a pity they were destroyed before they reached their maximum potential.

  94. anon[146] • Disclaimer says:

    As a Canadian I have always wondered why America insists on hanging on to Puerto Rico. It is a train wreck that benefits America in no way that I can see. America has not even succeeded after twelve decades or so of even making English the major language there. At least this was achieved in Hawaii. There is no major raw material or precious resource there. No oil, coal iron ore deposits, etc., I see no gain to America, even in decades past. If it ever did become a state it would be the poorest, more then twice as poor as Mississippi. It would almost certainly become a wedge issue or Trojan horse to introduce Spanish “bilingualism” into the mainland USA. (As a Canadian I can only warn you that would be a catastrophe.)

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  95. @attilathehen
    There are no mysteries as to why PR schools are amazingly bad. Start with biology first, i.e., IQ. The average PR IQ is 84. Why is it 84? Because 90% of PRs have black ancestry. Hence, bad schools. Latin America is heterogeneous, but Caucasians will be always be at the top.

    Replies: @pyrrhus, @gate666, @Pat Boyle, @Corvinus, @Hapalong Cassidy, @anon, @PaceLaw

    You make a good point. Perhaps the comparison is itself flawed. Rather then the mainland USA, maybe P.R. should be compared to Jamaica or Haiti.

    How does it measure up by this standard?

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    @anon

    If P.R. is compared to Jamaica or Haiti, again one must start with biology. What is the common biological factor of these three? 90% or more of the population has black ancestry. Even though each one speaks a completely different language and all of them are Christian, biology is number one in judging a population. Biology first, beliefs second.

    The average Haitian IQ is 67. The average Jamaican IQ is 71.

  96. @J. Dart
    @Rob McX

    Sorry for sounding like a broken record (I already ranted about this on the other PR thread), but the last time the US tried to cut some colonies loose, we got stuck with Compacts of Free Association where we still had to let their citizens in without limits and even keep on giving them foreign aid if they stayed at home and welfare if they moved to the US.

    The only saving grace was that those were little Pacific islands with low five-digit populations, but Hawaii was still spending over a hundred million dollars just on health care for them back in the 2000s until Linda Lingle won that Hail Mary victory in the Ninth Circuit and actually managed to cut back on the bennies.

    Replies: @anon

    If the US got stuck with such a raw deal it was only because it allowed itself to be taken advantage of.

  97. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    In 2017, Puerto Rican FALN terrorist Oscar Lopez Rivera marched through NYC in triumph at the annula Puerto Rican Day parade. In 1975, his group blew up Fraunces Tavern, a deeply significant location for patriotic Americans ( which was the point), among dozens of other terrorist attacks on Americans.

    3 other bombings on New Years eve 1982, Federal Court in Brooklyn, Police HQ and Federal Plaza, designed to kill civilians and especially cops. But years later, FALN leader Oscar Lopez Rivera marched through the city in a publicly-sponsored parade, protected by the same NYC cops his group wanted dead en masse.

    Our local (Puerto Rican) Council Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito, who would sometimes deliver public statements in Spanish and refuse to translate, marched triumphantly by his side.

    All just to say, 'In Your Face, Yanqui!'

    It's obvious who won this conflict. We should surrender and grant Puerto Ricans the independence they deserve.

    Replies: @Dtbb, @anon

    I could MAYBE see America putting up with this IF Puerto Rico was some vast treasure house of wealth for the USA. But it is the exact opposite. America’s imperialist streak was/is definitely masochistic.

  98. @Jus' Sayin'...
    When all is said and done, it's clear that we would be better off had the USA lost the Spanish-American War.

    Replies: @anon

    100% a war of choice for the USA. Spain was desperate to avoid war and bent over backwards to prevent conflict. But America wasn’t having it.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    @anon

    I agree with you completely. It would have been best from every perspective if the conspiracy of rabid, imperialistic jingoists like Roosevelt and Hearst had failed to push the USA into war. But, given the success of that conspiracy, the second best outcome would have been a Spanish victory. Who knows, such a defeat might even have served to keep us out of WW I!

  99. The Caribbean was a backwater for centuries. Then in the late 19th century people got the idea of building a canal across Panama and control of the Caribbean suddenly became hugely important. The Spanish-American War probably wouldn’t have happened if not for this.

  100. @Ed
    @JimB

    There’s a 27 year old Atlantic article about the Puerto Rican mainland underclass. The author found that it was worse off than the black underclass which he also studied. Not sure if anything has change since then.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/politics/poverty/othrund.htm



    As soon as the Hispanic category is broken down by group, what leaps out at anyone who takes even a casual look at the census data is that Puerto Ricans are the worst off ethnic group in the United States. For a period in the mid-1980s nearly half of all Puerto Rican families were living in poverty. It seems commonsensical that for Hispanics poverty would be a function of their unfamiliarity with the mainland United States, inability to speak English, and lack of education. But Mexican Americans, who are no more proficient in English than Puerto Ricans, less likely to have finished high school, and more likely to have arrived here very recently, have a much lower poverty rate. The Journal of the American Medical Association reported earlier this year that, as the newsletter of a leading Puerto Rican organization put it, "On almost every health indicator...Puerto Ricans fared worse" than Mexican-Americans or Cubans. Infant mortality was 50 percent higher than among Mexican-Americans, and nearly three times as high as among Cubans.
     

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Thanks.

  101. @Gary in Gramercy
    @Bragadocious

    Q: Why is divorce so expensive?

    A: Because it's worth it.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Speaking of hurricanes and divorce:

    ‘Why is a woman like a hurricane?’.

    ‘She’s wet and warm when she comes, but takes your house away when she goes’.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  102. @Jack D
    @Pat Boyle

    Puerto Rico is somewhat unusual in that most people are a tri-racial mix - European/African/Amerindian. Based on the results on the ground, this is not an especially felicitous combination in terms of brains but the average Puerto Rican indeed does look more like Rita Moreno (who is an actual Puerto Rican) than Moochelle. If you had said Natalie Wood, I would have agreed with you.

    Also, compared to say Cuba, the racial omelet seems to be have pretty well mixed - most Cubans are either distinctly (or at least mostly) white or very black whereas Puerto Ricans tend to be this sort of mocha mix of a bit of everything, so they are not-white but also not-black.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @sayless, @üeljang

    Not suggesting that this has anything to do with anything, but Puerto Ricans apparently have a greater amount of Native American ancestry compared to Cubans. Puerto Ricans and Cubans seem to have approximately equal amounts of African genes on average, but Puerto Ricans have more Native American genes, and especially so in regards to mitochondrial DNA (which is inherited in the direct maternal line). In contrast with the Puerto Ricans, most of whom carry Native American mitochondrial DNA (indicating that their matrilineal ancestresses were members of the Taíno or some other Native American population), the Cubans are split about 50/50 between European mitochondrial DNA and African mitochondrial DNA.

  103. @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Corvinus

    Implicit in Sailer's argument, had you not chosen purposefully to misunderstand it, is that Puerto Rico's politics are utterly corrupt. This is largely because Puerto Ricans seem incapable of making good choices in the voting booth. This contributes to the conditions that create bad schools. Examples are a top heavy public school bureaucracy larded with highly paid but utterly incompetent "administrators", i.e., political patronage, and poorly paid teachers because the money to pay for the patronage has to come from somewhere. To compound this disaster some 80% of the public school student population, assuming a normal distribution, have an IQ, e.g., a capacity for academic learning, below the US national average. And of course these poorly educated and on average rather unintelligent young people will grow up to form a new electorate, perpetuating the on going disaster.

    Only a prog or dimocrat, deranged by partisan fantasies of electoral dominance, would want to add any significant fraction of this dysfunctional population to the USA's population or electorate. And this I think was Mr. Sailer's ultimate implicit point.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Implicit in Sailer’s argument, had you not chosen purposefully to misunderstand it, is that Puerto Rico’s politics are utterly corrupt.”

    What I understood completely are the different reasons why Puerto Rico has a substandard educational system, which is why I linked to those articles. Included is a discussion of that corruption.

    “This is largely because Puerto Ricans seem incapable of making good choices in the voting booth.”

    No, this is largely due to leadership taking advantage of public trust.

    “Examples are a top heavy public school bureaucracy larded with highly paid but utterly incompetent “administrators”, i.e., political patronage, and poorly paid teachers because the money to pay for the patronage has to come from somewhere. To compound this disaster some 80% of the public school student population, assuming a normal distribution, have an IQ, e.g., a capacity for academic learning, below the US national average. And of course these poorly educated and on average rather unintelligent young people will grow up to form a new electorate, perpetuating the on going disaster.”

    Which was summarized in the links provided.

    “Only a prog or dimocrat, deranged by partisan fantasies of electoral dominance, would want to add any significant fraction of this dysfunctional population to the USA’s population or electorate. And this I think was Mr. Sailer’s ultimate implicit point.”

    You are offering a red herring here. The fact of the matter is that the federal government under Trump has yet to fulfill its obligation of aiding one of its territories, who are citizens of the United States.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  104. @Reg Cæsar
    @Brutusale


    Make sure you identify your Commonwealth. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts does just fine.
     
    As "Puerto Rico" or "PR" appears 14 times in Steve's piece, including headline and tables, I kind of assumed readers would figure it out. The only other "Commonwealth" mentioned is Kentucky.

    Also, Virginia borders DC, and Pennsylvania is very close.

    Have you paid off the Big Dig yet?

    Replies: @Brutusale

    All ahead humor detector. Engage.

    I threw in that little line because the students in MY Commonwealth annually lead the pack in test scores. I thought everyone knew that.

    Have you paid off the Big Dig yet?

    Unfortunately, Reg, YOU did. It’s government, where dumb costs are nationalized. It is Tip’s Tunnel, after all.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Brutusale



    Have you paid off the Big Dig yet?

     

    Unfortunately, Reg, YOU did. It’s government, where dumb costs are nationalized. It is Tip’s Tunnel, after all.

     

    Duff's Ditch paid off in time. That's why you heard of the Great Grand Forks Flood of '97, but not the Great Winnipeg Flood.

    https://www.stuffintheair.com/flood-gates-to-control.html


    http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/sites/duffsditch.shtml

    https://twitter.com/CTVMDB/status/850078178823503873
  105. @Corvinus
    @attilathehen

    Actually, there are a myriad of factors. Of course, Mr. Sailer chose to NOT NOTICE them as a "pundit".

    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/puerto-rico-economy-education-declines/408277

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/puerto-rico-university-system-budget-cuts#.aoy00ZooR

    Replies: @attilathehen, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Brutusale

    Since 1976, we’ve foregone billions of dollars in taxes to improve the economy in Puerto Rico.

    http://premieroffshore.com/detailed-analysis-puerto-ricos-tax-incentive-programs/

    There were quite a few companies taking advantage of the tax breaks back late-70s. A couple of my Massachusetts clients in the mid-80s were still laying off workers here and send jobs down to PR. During one QC visit by a crusty old (white) engineer, I commented on how many shipments were being sent down to PR. He laughed and said that all his vendors must send them nothing but their best product, as the rejection rate at the PR facility was essentially zero until things got out into the field, where the failure rate was a significant multiple of that of their US/European outposts.

    A couple of the tax breaks were rescinded a few years ago, and when I just checked the said company’s website I found that they no longer had the PR facility.

    It takes a special talent to believe that PR is any different from the rest of the Caribbean.

  106. @Lot
    @Bragadocious

    "In other words, Puerto Ricans want to be paid to go away"

    We should accept any reasonable offer. How about $15 billion?

    Replies: @Brutusale

    Nah, this should do the trick.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  107. @pyrrhus
    "Puerto Ricans themselves aren’t panicked about education quality in PR. We’re suckers for dumping tax dollars into that pit."

    They probably understand, correctly, that there is no way of educating people with an average IQ of 84, so why worry about it....

    Replies: @revjen45

    A most astute observation!

  108. @anon
    @attilathehen

    You make a good point. Perhaps the comparison is itself flawed. Rather then the mainland USA, maybe P.R. should be compared to Jamaica or Haiti.

    How does it measure up by this standard?

    Replies: @attilathehen

    If P.R. is compared to Jamaica or Haiti, again one must start with biology. What is the common biological factor of these three? 90% or more of the population has black ancestry. Even though each one speaks a completely different language and all of them are Christian, biology is number one in judging a population. Biology first, beliefs second.

    The average Haitian IQ is 67. The average Jamaican IQ is 71.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  109. @attilathehen
    There are no mysteries as to why PR schools are amazingly bad. Start with biology first, i.e., IQ. The average PR IQ is 84. Why is it 84? Because 90% of PRs have black ancestry. Hence, bad schools. Latin America is heterogeneous, but Caucasians will be always be at the top.

    Replies: @pyrrhus, @gate666, @Pat Boyle, @Corvinus, @Hapalong Cassidy, @anon, @PaceLaw

    “90% of PRs have black ancestry”??? That is absolutely absurd. Realistically it’s about 20%.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Ricans

    • Replies: @anon
    @PaceLaw

    Sorry but I disagree. Most Puerto Ricans are rather dark-skinned, some more so then others. But very few would pass for "white" (in the European sense). They have this dark skin because of their sub-Saharan African background. White or 'whitish' means very different things in different parts of the world.

    Replies: @PaceLaw

  110. @Anonymous
    Puerto Rican’s on average are mostly Spanish speaking sub Saharan Africans. Does that explain it Sherlock or are you being coy?

    Replies: @PaceLaw

    Why do so many persist with the fallacy the PRs are overwhelmingly black? They are not.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Ricans

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    @PaceLaw

    Where I live there are many PRs and from what I've seen, 90% of them have black ancestry. They run from light skinned like Jennifer Lopez to dark like Roberto Clemente. They are black. Again, look at IQs. IQs are low because of the black or Asian races. Why do PRs have an average IQ of 84? Because they have black ancestry.

    Mixing with blacks is what destroyed the ancient Caucasian Egyptians. Modern day Egyptians have an average IQ of 84. You can tell by looking at them that they have black ancestry. Only about 10% of modern day Egyptians can be classified as Caucasians. Modern day Egypt is a shithole. Modern day Egyptians could never build the great and glorious pyramids built by the ancient Egyptians.

    Replies: @PaceLaw

  111. @Flip
    @Reg Cæsar

    Some American hedge fund guys have moved there as there is a program where you can get exempted from US Federal taxes.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Some American hedge fund guys have moved there as there is a program where you can get exempted from US Federal taxes.

    “Moved”, as in “bought a condo”? To go with the one in Monaco, or the Caymans.

    • Replies: @Flip
    @Reg Cæsar

    I think they have to send half the year there, but you go from paying over half your income in taxes to something like 5%.

  112. @anon
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    100% a war of choice for the USA. Spain was desperate to avoid war and bent over backwards to prevent conflict. But America wasn't having it.

    Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...

    I agree with you completely. It would have been best from every perspective if the conspiracy of rabid, imperialistic jingoists like Roosevelt and Hearst had failed to push the USA into war. But, given the success of that conspiracy, the second best outcome would have been a Spanish victory. Who knows, such a defeat might even have served to keep us out of WW I!

  113. @bomag
    @Lot


    There has also been brain drain out of PR since they’ve been citizens, 100 years worth. Due to intermarriage and assimilation, the most talented PR migrants of 1900-1950 have descendants who mostly do not identify as PR.
     
    Pretty much the point of The Bell Curve, and something seen in other partly isolated groups, e.g. Indian reservations, hillbilly enclaves.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    This is a common phenomenon in colonised countries. I wonder how much the dumb Irish/Polack stereotypes are due to the most talented members of these nations emigrating and assimilating into other cultures.

  114. @PaceLaw
    @Anonymous

    Why do so many persist with the fallacy the PRs are overwhelmingly black? They are not.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Ricans

    Replies: @attilathehen

    Where I live there are many PRs and from what I’ve seen, 90% of them have black ancestry. They run from light skinned like Jennifer Lopez to dark like Roberto Clemente. They are black. Again, look at IQs. IQs are low because of the black or Asian races. Why do PRs have an average IQ of 84? Because they have black ancestry.

    Mixing with blacks is what destroyed the ancient Caucasian Egyptians. Modern day Egyptians have an average IQ of 84. You can tell by looking at them that they have black ancestry. Only about 10% of modern day Egyptians can be classified as Caucasians. Modern day Egypt is a shithole. Modern day Egyptians could never build the great and glorious pyramids built by the ancient Egyptians.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @PaceLaw
    @attilathehen

    Jennifer Lopez to Roberto Clemente? That is a pretty damn broad range of skin colors don’t you think? And I can completely assure you that Jennifer Lopez does not consider herself to be black or of black ancestry. I would encourage you to drop the “eyeball“ test for racial ancestry and refer to the statistics in the Wikipedia article that I sent you.

  115. anon[146] • Disclaimer says:
    @PaceLaw
    @attilathehen

    “90% of PRs have black ancestry”??? That is absolutely absurd. Realistically it’s about 20%.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Ricans

    Replies: @anon

    Sorry but I disagree. Most Puerto Ricans are rather dark-skinned, some more so then others. But very few would pass for “white” (in the European sense). They have this dark skin because of their sub-Saharan African background. White or ‘whitish’ means very different things in different parts of the world.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @PaceLaw
    @anon

    It appears that you are using the “eyeball“ test to determine racial ancestry, which is a particularly perilous road to take. I work for the federal government and I was deployed to Puerto Rico last year for hurricane relief. I definitely saw a range of skin colors, which overwhelmingly trended towards light-skinned. Granted, not as light as whites in the mainland USA, but overwhelmingly the majority of Puerto Ricans would not be considered black or mixed by your casual (objective) observer. The Puerto Ricans owe their tawny complexion to Native American ancestry (Arawak/Taino), not from Africa.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  116. @anon
    @PaceLaw

    Sorry but I disagree. Most Puerto Ricans are rather dark-skinned, some more so then others. But very few would pass for "white" (in the European sense). They have this dark skin because of their sub-Saharan African background. White or 'whitish' means very different things in different parts of the world.

    Replies: @PaceLaw

    It appears that you are using the “eyeball“ test to determine racial ancestry, which is a particularly perilous road to take. I work for the federal government and I was deployed to Puerto Rico last year for hurricane relief. I definitely saw a range of skin colors, which overwhelmingly trended towards light-skinned. Granted, not as light as whites in the mainland USA, but overwhelmingly the majority of Puerto Ricans would not be considered black or mixed by your casual (objective) observer. The Puerto Ricans owe their tawny complexion to Native American ancestry (Arawak/Taino), not from Africa.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @PaceLaw

    You need to visit the country in wintertime to make these kinds of assessments. In the summer everybody, including whites, has dark skin.

    Replies: @PaceLaw

  117. @attilathehen
    @PaceLaw

    Where I live there are many PRs and from what I've seen, 90% of them have black ancestry. They run from light skinned like Jennifer Lopez to dark like Roberto Clemente. They are black. Again, look at IQs. IQs are low because of the black or Asian races. Why do PRs have an average IQ of 84? Because they have black ancestry.

    Mixing with blacks is what destroyed the ancient Caucasian Egyptians. Modern day Egyptians have an average IQ of 84. You can tell by looking at them that they have black ancestry. Only about 10% of modern day Egyptians can be classified as Caucasians. Modern day Egypt is a shithole. Modern day Egyptians could never build the great and glorious pyramids built by the ancient Egyptians.

    Replies: @PaceLaw

    Jennifer Lopez to Roberto Clemente? That is a pretty damn broad range of skin colors don’t you think? And I can completely assure you that Jennifer Lopez does not consider herself to be black or of black ancestry. I would encourage you to drop the “eyeball“ test for racial ancestry and refer to the statistics in the Wikipedia article that I sent you.

  118. @PaceLaw
    @anon

    It appears that you are using the “eyeball“ test to determine racial ancestry, which is a particularly perilous road to take. I work for the federal government and I was deployed to Puerto Rico last year for hurricane relief. I definitely saw a range of skin colors, which overwhelmingly trended towards light-skinned. Granted, not as light as whites in the mainland USA, but overwhelmingly the majority of Puerto Ricans would not be considered black or mixed by your casual (objective) observer. The Puerto Ricans owe their tawny complexion to Native American ancestry (Arawak/Taino), not from Africa.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    You need to visit the country in wintertime to make these kinds of assessments. In the summer everybody, including whites, has dark skin.

    • Replies: @PaceLaw
    @Anonymous

    No my friend, that’s the point! I was in Puerto Rico in November and December 2017.

  119. @Anonymous
    @PaceLaw

    You need to visit the country in wintertime to make these kinds of assessments. In the summer everybody, including whites, has dark skin.

    Replies: @PaceLaw

    No my friend, that’s the point! I was in Puerto Rico in November and December 2017.

  120. @Brutusale
    @Reg Cæsar

    All ahead humor detector. Engage.

    I threw in that little line because the students in MY Commonwealth annually lead the pack in test scores. I thought everyone knew that.

    Have you paid off the Big Dig yet?

    Unfortunately, Reg, YOU did. It's government, where dumb costs are nationalized. It is Tip's Tunnel, after all.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Have you paid off the Big Dig yet?

    Unfortunately, Reg, YOU did. It’s government, where dumb costs are nationalized. It is Tip’s Tunnel, after all.

    Duff’s Ditch paid off in time. That’s why you heard of the Great Grand Forks Flood of ’97, but not the Great Winnipeg Flood.

    https://www.stuffintheair.com/flood-gates-to-control.html

    http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/sites/duffsditch.shtml

  121. @Reg Cæsar
    @Flip


    Some American hedge fund guys have moved there as there is a program where you can get exempted from US Federal taxes.

     

    "Moved", as in "bought a condo"? To go with the one in Monaco, or the Caymans.

    Replies: @Flip

    I think they have to send half the year there, but you go from paying over half your income in taxes to something like 5%.

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