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From The Atlantic in its pre-clickbait days:
Most people think of inner-city poverty as a black phenomenon. But it is also alarmingly high among Puerto Ricans, the worst-off ethnic group in the country–even though Puerto Rico itself has made great progress against poverty and there is a growing Puerto Rican middle-class on the mainland
by Nicholas Lemann
December 1991
… As soon as the Hispanic category is broken down by group, what leaps out at anyone who takes even a casual look at the census data is that Puerto Ricans are the worst off ethnic group in the United States. For a period in the mid-1980s nearly half of all Puerto Rican families were living in poverty. It seems commonsensical that for Hispanics poverty would be a function of their unfamiliarity with the mainland United States, inability to speak English, and lack of education. But Mexican Americans, who are no more proficient in English than Puerto Ricans, less likely to have finished high school, and more likely to have arrived here very recently, have a much lower poverty rate. The Journal of the American Medical Association reported earlier this year that, as the newsletter of a leading Puerto Rican organization put it, “On almost every health indicator…Puerto Ricans fared worse” than Mexican-Americans or Cubans. Infant mortality was 50 percent higher than among Mexican-Americans, and nearly three times as high as among Cubans.
The statistics also show Puerto Ricans to be much more severely afflicted than Mexican-Americans by what might be called the secondary effects of poverty, such as family breakups, and not trying to find employment–which work to ensure that poverty will continue beyond one generation. In 1988 females headed 44 percent of Puerto Rican families, as opposed to 18 percent of Mexican-American families. Mexican-Americans had a slightly higher unemployment rate, but Puerto Ricans had a substantially higher rate in the sociologically ominous category “labor force non-participation,” meaning the percentage of people who haven’t looked for a job in the previous month.
Practically everybody in America feels some kind of emotion about blacks, but Puerto Rican leaders are the only people I’ve ever run across for whom the emotion is pure envy. In New York City, black median family income is substantially higher than Puerto Rican, and is rising more rapidly. The black home-ownership rate is more than double the Puerto Rican rate. Puerto Rican families are more than twice as likely as black families to be on welfare, and are about 50 percent more likely to be poor. In the mainland United States, Puerto Ricans have nothing like the black institutional network of colleges, churches, and civil-rights organizations; there isn’t a large cadre of visible Puerto Rican successes in nearly every field; black politicians are more powerful than Puerto Rican politicians in all the cities with big Puerto Rican populations; and there is a feeling that blacks have America’s attention, whereas Puerto Ricans, after a brief flurry of publicity back in West Side Story days, have become invisible.
Puerto Ricans are a very interesting test case for immigration advocates. They’ve enjoyed open borders with the United States. Even before Hurricane Maria, a sizable majority, such as 3/5ths of all Puerto Ricans lived in the 50 states.
The US massively subsidized Puerto Ricans to stay home, but in 2006 a big tax break subsidizing jobs in Puerto Rico was allowed to expire by Congress on the grounds that Puerto Ricans were finally ready.
The Puerto Rican economy promptly collapsed and rapid depopulation of the island began. Democrats and the media paid almost no attention to how awful Puerto Rican institutions have been allowed to become during the Obama Years, probably in hopes that the exodus from Puerto Rico to Orlando promises to tip purple Florida’s 29 Electoral Votes permanently blue. For example, the atrocious performance of public school students in Puerto Rico on the federal NAEP simply never made the news in the U.S.
Now with Trump around to be blamed, Democrats and the media are vaguely interested in PR again.
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Why in the holy hell didn’t we cut the place loose DECADES ago? So silly.
This is how the Germans took Rome.Replies: @anonymous
My only somewhat viable solution would be to literally buy Puerto Ricans out- dangle like $30k cash in front of each one that will give up their statutory US citizenship in exchange for citizenship in a newly independent Peoples Republic of Puerto Rico. Only catch- they can't live on the mainland anymore if they take the buyout. 30k might sound like a lot but it'll probably pay for itself in a few years.Replies: @Lucas McCrudy, @Mr. Rational
http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/documents/1876-1900/president-clevelands-message-about-hawaii-december-18-1893.phpReplies: @Autochthon
Hey Mr. Sailer,
Off topic and all, but up your alley: were very close to breaking tbe two-hour barrier for marathons from (surprise!) a Kenyan:
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Sports/wireStory/eliud-kipchoge-sets-world-record-berlin-marathon-win-57856873
But it’s a coincidence, of course: The Man tells us as part of The Religion that Esquimeaux and Tamils are of course just as capable of this kind of thing….
How do Mexicans and Puerto Ricans view each other?
One Mexican Spanglish term that stood out in reference to Puerto Ricans: "Welfareros"
But if the US granted/forced independence on Puerto Rico it would become a Chinese colony within a decade.
Holy shit!: “Not trying to find empliument” is a “secondary effect” of poverty according to this genius. Here I’d reckoned poverty came of not trying to find employment (a primary cause?).
Turnes out cancer causes people to smoke cigarettes and conception causes sex, I suppose.
I reiterate because it bears repeating: Holy shit! Is The Atlantic now only hiring the mentally retarded in an effort to ensure that Coates creature remains their star?
The rot sure does go back a long way, doesn't it? It was in full swing by the time the Kerner commission was seated.
Fascinating. It’s amazing that Puerto Rico happened to produce a man as awesome as Alexander Hamilton.
Nicholas Lemann manged to work “West Side Story” into his piece. Very iStevey and to be applauded.
That’s right, Puerto Rico is the Democratic socialist ICE-free dream. It’s a South American country with whom the USA has open borders, and no immigration enforcement. And what happens? They all come here, except for the ones who complain that they don’t get enough free stuff right where they are in Puerto Rico!
This short video summarizes the advantages of life in America for PRs.
Enjoy!
It used to be Nieves but has been retconned to be Puerto Rico. To honor Lin-Manuel Miranda and his screwy musical Hamilton!
Christine Blasey Ford is retconning her non-sexual Kavanaugh encounter by how much?
To best understand Puerto Ricans, move to New York, get a case of wine, rent a tenement, go to a grimy pool hall and put on The Rolling Stones:
“…secondary effects of poverty, such as family breakups, and not trying to find employment…” or culture of poverty?
Yeah, so open borders has actually worked out pretty well for Puerto Rican people, at least, who make much higher wages and live much better lives as American citizens than citizens of similar Caribbean nations who can’t move to the US. They mostly moved to New York City, which, despite the endless doomsaying of white nationalists about the apocalyptic dangers of non-white immigration and diversity, is actually a pretty nice place to live despite being genuinely diverse and having a lot of non-white people in it.
I’m a weirdo, but personally I think the interests of both people who want to immigrate to first world countries and people who live in first world countries should be fairly considered in determining immigration policy. So, while I don’t think that it’s the only thing to consider, I do think that the fact that many people’s lives are massively materially improved by obtaining gainful employment in a different country is something to think about.
A better strategy is to improve people's lives where they live now. A chunk of poverty and other problems in donor countries could be alleviated if they had fewer people. Letting them move foregoes population increase by current residents in receiving countries.
An equilibrium will be reached eventually; immigration as a human improvement project is not something that will last forever.Replies: @Anonymous
The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world. I wonder how high that of NYC is. That is to say, how many billions of taxpayer dollars have to be unsustainably spent keeping a (relatively) huge percentage of NYCers locked up so that the city can be safe?Replies: @Anonymous
It’s an old story. You acquire a colony to increase your power and wealth. You fight to keep it because letting it go would make you look weak. Eventually you look at the bills and realize it’s costing you a fortune, but again your prestige is on the line and you can’t let go. The natives move onto your front lawn, one of them marries your grandaughter, and in the end they inherit your estate.
This is how the Germans took Rome.
Also, the same reason we passed Hart-Celler. Stupidity, allied with the machinations of a tiny but tireless and wealthy minority.
It's arguable that between slavery and immigration, this nation was doomed from the get-go. Even if we didn't open the floodgates to the third world, we still had this fifth column which will forever set the descendents of slaves against the rest of us, for their own profit and amusement.
Not as ‘badly off’ as US taxpayers.
Feds Consider Puerto Ricans Disabled Because They
Speak SpanishCan’t Speak EnglishThere’s the gift that keeps on giving and then there is the burden that never stops taking. Puerto Rico has been nothing but an albatross around America’s neck from the first day it took the place from Spain.
In both cases, referring to one as the other is considered fighting words.
In the '90s there was no love lost between the Puerto Rican boxer Felix' Tito' Trinidad and his Mexican opponents. His fans were utterly obnoxious as well.
Speaking of Mexican boxers, is Canelo Alvarez the most Irish looking Mexican ever? Great fight between him and Golovkin this past Saturday.
Are they ‘badly off’ because they are fat? Or should we think they are really not that ‘badly off’ because they are
fatwell fed? It’s a tough call.This is how the Germans took Rome.Replies: @anonymous
Yep. Pretty much. So hard to let go of even the most pernicious aspects of Empire.
Also, the same reason we passed Hart-Celler. Stupidity, allied with the machinations of a tiny but tireless and wealthy minority.
It’s arguable that between slavery and immigration, this nation was doomed from the get-go. Even if we didn’t open the floodgates to the third world, we still had this fifth column which will forever set the descendents of slaves against the rest of us, for their own profit and amusement.
Why are they so dumb? I wonder if their problems are more cultural than one might think.
I heard J Lo practices Santeria??
On Univision and Telemundo.
https://i2.wp.com/artisticwarfare.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/jackie-guerrido-sonaba-con-ser_1024x768.jpg
or Jackie?
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/90/91/a2/9091a2edb7b23763aa13e967b398059f.jpgReplies: @Redneck farmer, @Lurker
Now, let’s unleash the very diligent GWU researchers and their “sophisticated mathematical model” (their words in the press release linked below) on the one indirect Puerto Rican death attributable to Hurricane Isaac in 2012 and see how many excess deaths there really were due to the ineptitude of that hurricane’s President.
This is nothing more than a laser-like focused hit-piece aimed at Donald Trump.
https://publichealth.gwu.edu/content/gw-report-delivers-recommendations-aimed-preparing-puerto-rico-hurricane-season
Yanet
or Jackie?
Poverty isn’t quite as simplistic as you wish it were.
I recovered from all of it, every time, by busting my ass.
I'd get a job flipping burgers or selling T-shirts when nothing else was available and eat one package of hotdogs each week. I've never in my life received any form of governmental assistance, in fact, the one time I applied for it in desperation I was told I couldn't qualify for a dime notwithstanding my status as a combat veteran, but that if I'd been a Haitian "refugee" from the recent hurricane in that place I could receive benefits.
Tell me more about my simplistic ignorance of the reality of poverty and its relation to work.
I know all about the honour of God, Mary Jane.Replies: @anonymous
Or, more precisely, the tertiary effects of low intelligence.
I'm a weirdo, but personally I think the interests of both people who want to immigrate to first world countries and people who live in first world countries should be fairly considered in determining immigration policy. So, while I don't think that it's the only thing to consider, I do think that the fact that many people's lives are massively materially improved by obtaining gainful employment in a different country is something to think about.Replies: @Redneck farmer, @bomag, @Ray Huffman, @3g4me
That’s because a white Italian mayor (Giuliani) and a white Jewish mayor (Bloomberg) began “economically cleansing ” NYC. This has been continued under the current German white mayor.
https://i2.wp.com/artisticwarfare.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/jackie-guerrido-sonaba-con-ser_1024x768.jpg
or Jackie?
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/90/91/a2/9091a2edb7b23763aa13e967b398059f.jpgReplies: @Redneck farmer, @Lurker
I’d make babies with either one. 🙂
Then there are whites who are persecuted by the minorities they work with b/c brown people are allowed to discriminate against whites whenever and wherever they like. There’s a surprising amount of scrapping over substandard wages from mathematically challenged minorities who don’t realize there’s zero benefit to office politics when making minimum wage. If you had potential, you’d have started as an MIT. Cooperativeness is a much more valued trait in your low-skilled workforce. Be friendly and pursue further job training during your time off.
You’d be amazed at the infrastructure created so that the least of the least skilled can air grievances about white supervisors for: Using polysyllabic words, being conceited, not understanding where the brown person is coming from, classism in the form of drinking brand-name sodas instead of generic… Any amount of pettiness will be affirmed.
Then there’s the policy of life-long abuse to be ritually directed at the designated white who can’t escape without winning the lottery or inheriting a large enough sum to go into business for themselves b/c said white person will always be targeted by supervisors and coworkers, minority or white, for as long as they hold a job. Job training and college courses will offer no reprisals. And then some smug Mexican who makes no more than 40,000 a year after years of intermittent and or lower wage employment will castigate the persecuted white as if this Mexican had anything to brag about.
You'd be amazed at the infrastructure created so that the least of the least skilled can air grievances about white supervisors for: Using polysyllabic words, being conceited, not understanding where the brown person is coming from, classism in the form of drinking brand-name sodas instead of generic... Any amount of pettiness will be affirmed.
Then there's the policy of life-long abuse to be ritually directed at the designated white who can't escape without winning the lottery or inheriting a large enough sum to go into business for themselves b/c said white person will always be targeted by supervisors and coworkers, minority or white, for as long as they hold a job. Job training and college courses will offer no reprisals. And then some smug Mexican who makes no more than 40,000 a year after years of intermittent and or lower wage employment will castigate the persecuted white as if this Mexican had anything to brag about.Replies: @Trevor H.
Damn you’re harsh. Let’s get married.
I spent many years of my childhood sleeping on the floorboard of my mother’s car and a few more sleeping on sidewalks, I’ve been homeless three times in my adult life, sleeping on the streets and, once, when I had one, in a tent.
I recovered from all of it, every time, by busting my ass.
I’d get a job flipping burgers or selling T-shirts when nothing else was available and eat one package of hotdogs each week. I’ve never in my life received any form of governmental assistance, in fact, the one time I applied for it in desperation I was told I couldn’t qualify for a dime notwithstanding my status as a combat veteran, but that if I’d been a Haitian “refugee” from the recent hurricane in that place I could receive benefits.
Tell me more about my simplistic ignorance of the reality of poverty and its relation to work.
I know all about the honour of God, Mary Jane.
Literally.
In the ’90s there was no love lost between the Puerto Rican boxer Felix’ Tito’ Trinidad and his Mexican opponents. His fans were utterly obnoxious as well.
Speaking of Mexican boxers, is Canelo Alvarez the most Irish looking Mexican ever? Great fight between him and Golovkin this past Saturday.
In any case, both are derivatives of the degree of social development of a socio-cultural group. Funny how we in high-trust societies, living in places where ostracism from the group might mean the difference between getting through winter alive or not, tend on average to be more intelligent and less impoverished.
Feds Consider Puerto Ricans Disabled Because They
Speak SpanishCan't Speak EnglishReplies: @TomSchmidtInteresting question: the US took Puerto Rico and The Philippines from Spain at the same time. The coins from 1905 in the Philippines are called Pesos. Yet today there is no Spanish language to speak of in that country, while there is little English in Puerto Rico. Why?
Because of the great number of languages, a lingua franca is necessary for commerce and government. Before WWII and the US occupation this was Spanish; now it is English.
Puerto Rico is a relatively small island dominated by a single ethnic group, which has Spanish as the native language. There hasn't been any reason to change.Replies: @TomSchmidt
Some years back when AOL had some kind of chat room thing running I recall dropping in on some shithole Spanish language forum. The Mexicans there were virulently envious of Puerto Ricans for their status and ability to easily collect the full menu of welfare benefits and at the same time the cursed them like a common loose freight stevedore for being such lazy worthless POS’s.
One Mexican Spanglish term that stood out in reference to Puerto Ricans: “Welfareros”
They’re were plenty of opportunities to cut Puerto Rico off decades ago- a good time would’ve been right after we gave the Philippines independence or after Puerto Rican nationalists went on a shooting spree at the US Capitol and tried to assassinate Truman in the early ’50s.
Living around lots of Puerto Ricans I have to say they’re some of the most arrogantly nationalistic people you’ll ever meet with their seeming obsession with festooning everything from backpacks to bicycles to purses to car mirrors with their beloved Puerto Rican flag. But as Sailer has pointed out that hasn’t stopped 3/5ths of them from leaving their oh-so-beloved homeland to de-camp on the mainland-apparently the lure of WIC checks, food stamps and public housing is just too much.
So if you thought Mexicans and Afro-Americans are no picnic Puerto Ricans really take the cake. There’s even an old joke to illustrate the point- Q. Why did God create Puerto Ricans? A. To give blacks someone to look down upon.
My only somewhat viable solution would be to literally buy Puerto Ricans out- dangle like $30k cash in front of each one that will give up their statutory US citizenship in exchange for citizenship in a newly independent Peoples Republic of Puerto Rico. Only catch- they can’t live on the mainland anymore if they take the buyout. 30k might sound like a lot but it’ll probably pay for itself in a few years.
The only way to lose with this is not to do it.Replies: @Bubba
My answer to this question is always the same: blame Woodrow Wilson, the worst president in US history. Teddy Roosevelt shares some blame too, but at least he broke up the monopolies.
My only somewhat viable solution would be to literally buy Puerto Ricans out- dangle like $30k cash in front of each one that will give up their statutory US citizenship in exchange for citizenship in a newly independent Peoples Republic of Puerto Rico. Only catch- they can't live on the mainland anymore if they take the buyout. 30k might sound like a lot but it'll probably pay for itself in a few years.Replies: @Lucas McCrudy, @Mr. Rational
Correction: There were
I'm a weirdo, but personally I think the interests of both people who want to immigrate to first world countries and people who live in first world countries should be fairly considered in determining immigration policy. So, while I don't think that it's the only thing to consider, I do think that the fact that many people's lives are massively materially improved by obtaining gainful employment in a different country is something to think about.Replies: @Redneck farmer, @bomag, @Ray Huffman, @3g4me
Ports and trading centers are always wealthier and more diverse relative to the rest of the country. NYC attracts a lot of scarce talent that spends a large chunk of their ambition and money keeping the place nice.
Money isn’t everything.
A better strategy is to improve people’s lives where they live now. A chunk of poverty and other problems in donor countries could be alleviated if they had fewer people. Letting them move foregoes population increase by current residents in receiving countries.
An equilibrium will be reached eventually; immigration as a human improvement project is not something that will last forever.
I don't think that overpopulation is an issue at least currently in most developed countries. For instance, I don't think that a white American or Briton with a certain IQ and level of conscientiousness is substantially worse off than they would be if they had been born in Iceland.
I do believe that the coming population explosion in Africa is a very bad thing. However, the most consistent way to decrease population growth is economic development. Unless someone can invent a magic bullet in terms of development---which I think is rather unlikely---the most plausible solution is some sort of controlled temporary economic migration without citizenship, along the lines of what the Gulf States have done. It's not a panacea, but it's a lot better than life as a subsistence farmer in a third world country, and I think such a program could be implemented more humanely while still firmly temporarily than the Gulf States have done.Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @bomag
Off topic and all, but up your alley: were very close to breaking tbe two-hour barrier for marathons from (surprise!) a Kenyan:
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Sports/wireStory/eliud-kipchoge-sets-world-record-berlin-marathon-win-57856873
But it's a coincidence, of course: The Man tells us as part of The Religion that Esquimeaux and Tamils are of course just as capable of this kind of thing....Replies: @Diversity Heretic
Color me suspicious. Dropping a world record by that much in a highly contested event looks a lot like Lance Armstrong levels of performance. I suppose meteorology and street configuration could play a role, but I wonder if blood doping or PEDs played a role here.
Mexicans buy/pirate a lot of PR music. PRs buy a lot of Hecho en Mexico manufactured goods.
I read many years ago, I think in Connie Fletcher’s book What Cops Know, that when late-20C cops from nationwide came together for a conference, in the extramural social gatherings where they told each other cop stories, New York City cops left the other cops stunned and speechless with their tales of life in the PR ghetto.
Be interested to know how things go now at such gatherings, with PRs all over.
Universal male conscription and military service! Not sure about females, but they should probably be required to do some sort of support service for the military. Both sexes need a bootcamp to get into shape and to stop feeling sorry for themselves.Replies: @Carol
“The US massively subsidized Puerto Ricans to stay home, but in 2006 a big tax break subsidizing jobs in Puerto Rico was allowed to expire by Congress on the grounds that Puerto Ricans were finally ready.”
Puerto Rico is a colony and is run like a colony based on the whims of Fed Gov. PR is unable to command subsidies from Fed Gov like a state but is forced to have a cost structure imposed on it by Fed Gov. For example, the Jones Act forces PR to basically route everything through Florida. Let’s see what happens to any of the official 50 states if they lost their 2 senators plus whatever number of representatives. West Virginia is the center of the ‘White Death’, and they have Senators and Representatives.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920#Exemptions
I heard J Lo practices Santeria??Replies: @Jan assman
No need to wonder, just look at them. All of those slave islands have a similar genetic profile and character.
Puerto Ricans envy the discipline and drive of blacks. That’s not…that’s not good.
This reminds me of Shiva Naipaul’s book ‘North of South,’ where he speculates about which Caribbean blacks ( which PRicans more or less are) are the laziest blacks in the world.
Shiva Naipaul had no mercy, especially not for his own liver.
Be interested to know how things go now at such gatherings, with PRs all over.Replies: @stillCARealist, @The Alarmist
My whole life I’ve only known one PR and he was a gem: smart, kind, Christian, successful. He said growing up in Chicago he watched his older brother’s friends join gangs and get into serious trouble. He was determined not to go that route, so right after HS he joined the army and shipped out.
Universal male conscription and military service! Not sure about females, but they should probably be required to do some sort of support service for the military. Both sexes need a bootcamp to get into shape and to stop feeling sorry for themselves.
Be interested to know how things go now at such gatherings, with PRs all over.Replies: @stillCARealist, @The Alarmist
When I first moved to NYC, my colleagues who came from LI would tell me tales from their High School days (evenings after school, actually) that left me stunned. Don’t know how you raised a nice boy in a sea of degeneracy.
The case for Puerto Ricans in the U.S. might be even worse than the numbers indicate. I’ve been told that it’s reasonably common for people from Central and South America and the Caribbean who have a few bucks to spend, to go to Puerto Rico and spend that few bucks buying Puerto Rican official papers and with it U.S. citizenship. Puerto Rico may in fact be sending its best.
https://i2.wp.com/artisticwarfare.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/jackie-guerrido-sonaba-con-ser_1024x768.jpg
or Jackie?
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/90/91/a2/9091a2edb7b23763aa13e967b398059f.jpgReplies: @Redneck farmer, @Lurker
Yanet gets my vote!
That piece is from 1991, the year in which Tennessee Coates turned 16.
The rot sure does go back a long way, doesn’t it? It was in full swing by the time the Kerner commission was seated.
This short video summarizes the advantages of life in America for PRs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhSKk-cvblc
Enjoy!Replies: @Ray Huffman
Nice legs there. It’s really a pity that women never wear sheer nylons like that anymore. Very sexy.
I'm a weirdo, but personally I think the interests of both people who want to immigrate to first world countries and people who live in first world countries should be fairly considered in determining immigration policy. So, while I don't think that it's the only thing to consider, I do think that the fact that many people's lives are massively materially improved by obtaining gainful employment in a different country is something to think about.Replies: @Redneck farmer, @bomag, @Ray Huffman, @3g4me
They mostly moved to New York City, which, despite the endless doomsaying of white nationalists about the apocalyptic dangers of non-white immigration and diversity, is actually a pretty nice place to live despite being genuinely diverse and having a lot of non-white people in it.
The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world. I wonder how high that of NYC is. That is to say, how many billions of taxpayer dollars have to be unsustainably spent keeping a (relatively) huge percentage of NYCers locked up so that the city can be safe?
Florida-Cubans call Meso-America for ‘Latrine-America’. No love lost.
But if the US granted/forced independence on Puerto Rico it would become a Chinese colony within a decade.
I am struggling to find a good reason to keep Puerto Rico as a territory, now that we don’t really seem to need it for naval bases or weapons testing.
Let’s forgive a bunch of their debt, give them I big chunk of recovery money and wish them luck as an independent nation.
A.A. has two funny articles running on Ocasio-Cortez right now. The neons are rutting for her.
Democrats.
Blaming poor people for being poor. You people are not only brainwashed. But you are brainwashed the way they did it 70 years ago. You cannot pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. It is utterly impossible. Working hard does not pay off. Anybody who works hard knows this. In fact, it sometimes creates extra problems, such as envy. Just grow up and get real and stop living in some mid-20th century troglodyte John Birch dreamworld.
I'm a weirdo, but personally I think the interests of both people who want to immigrate to first world countries and people who live in first world countries should be fairly considered in determining immigration policy. So, while I don't think that it's the only thing to consider, I do think that the fact that many people's lives are massively materially improved by obtaining gainful employment in a different country is something to think about.Replies: @Redneck farmer, @bomag, @Ray Huffman, @3g4me
@11 Anonymous[679]: “I’m a weirdo, but personally I think the interests of both people who want to immigrate to first world countries and people who live in first world countries should be fairly considered in determining immigration policy.”
You’re a cucky globalist who wants to virtue signal on behalf of the poor, because ruining White Americans’ lives on behalf of the needy brown hordes who will forever be needy and brown makes you feel special. How . . . special.
As far as your accusation that I am virtue signaling, I myself am a white American who grew up (recently) in a mostly working class Mexican and Chinese neighborhood. While I am not yet of the age to purchase property, I would have no issue doing so in a similar such neighborhood. I was a MINORITY IN MY OWN COMMUNITY!!!1!1!!!1!1! And it was....like, fine? I mean, as one would expect from Robert Putnam's research, I do think there was a certain lack of social trust and community (though apparently such atomization exists in more homogeneous East Asian cities as well), and certainly me and my family gravitated towards socializing with other whites. But it was a very far cry from the kind of war-torn Mad Max hellscape of social dysfunction that white nationalists seem to think would emerge in a majority non-white community. For the most part, my family got along fine with our non-white neighbors and I and my siblings got along fine with our non-white schoolmates, many of whom were likely the children of illegal immigrants. If white nationalists had not informed me that being an ethnic minority in a community is the worst disaster that could ever befall you, I don't think I really would have even thought about the matter.
I recovered from all of it, every time, by busting my ass.
I'd get a job flipping burgers or selling T-shirts when nothing else was available and eat one package of hotdogs each week. I've never in my life received any form of governmental assistance, in fact, the one time I applied for it in desperation I was told I couldn't qualify for a dime notwithstanding my status as a combat veteran, but that if I'd been a Haitian "refugee" from the recent hurricane in that place I could receive benefits.
Tell me more about my simplistic ignorance of the reality of poverty and its relation to work.
I know all about the honour of God, Mary Jane.Replies: @anonymous
Why have you struggled so much through life? People commenting here generally have an IQ above 120. It is very hard to believe you could be impoverished so much throughout your adult life with that level of intelligence without a lot of self inflicted wounds.
Universal male conscription and military service! Not sure about females, but they should probably be required to do some sort of support service for the military. Both sexes need a bootcamp to get into shape and to stop feeling sorry for themselves.Replies: @Carol
Fine, if they can pass the tests. Mil doesn’t want or need any more fat morons. It’s not supposed to be a welfare program.
“Why in the holy hell didn’t we cut the place loose DECADES ago? So silly.”
Empires are hoarders or perhaps ‘Cat Ladies’. Think about how long it took the Roman Empire to cut England loose. And oh yeah, what’s up with SyrIraqistan?
How about Hawaii? Does the US mainland really need Hawaii or Guam or Samoa? Virgin Islands?
Pres Grover Cleveland (The last good democrat) attempts unsuccessfully to restore the Hawaiian Royal Family and end the US occupation.
President Cleveland’s message about Hawaii December 18 1893
http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/documents/1876-1900/president-clevelands-message-about-hawaii-december-18-1893.php
Ike was heavier than Clinton, but it wasn't from obesity; he was just a relatively burly guy (as you would expect, since chunkers and weaklings don't usually get made generals...).
It’s not a matter of ‘blame’, idiot. That’s what shitlibs do, blame people for things beyond their control. I don’t blame anyone for their low IQ like I wouldn’t blame them for their height or hair color; I just don’t want to be held responsible, morally or financially, for the endless failures of certain groups of people.
Blacks (a global race) vs PRs (a small nationality)
Blacks can be anyone of any level of African heritage from African, South American, any US state and these days Europe and even Asia. Consider African American Naomi Osaka.
Puerto Rican has a much more limited and specific definition. And you can’t add ringers from say Chile to improve the PR numbers.
Let's forgive a bunch of their debt, give them I big chunk of recovery money and wish them luck as an independent nation.Replies: @The Alarmist
They don’t have to agree to independence, right? We can just cut PR loose.
I’ll cop to that, though I’ve been done wrong on levels fit for a Greek tragedy, much of it intertwines with my own tragic flaws. The best response I can offer to remain concise and preserve anonymity is that I am, basically, Bojack Horseman. At the abstract level, I mean (e.g., I’m not a washed out actor, but, brother, can I testify to the damage having a mentally deranged, abusive mother will do…).
http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/documents/1876-1900/president-clevelands-message-about-hawaii-december-18-1893.phpReplies: @Autochthon
Cool. Thanks! Oh, and fun fact: in addition to being the only guy to serve non-consecutive terms, Cleveland was the second fattest president (Taft was the fattest by a country mile, and good ole Bubba hisself, Bill Clinton, was number three (though he’s lost a lot of weight in old age: maybe he quit drinking and took physicians’ advice to change diet and exercise, or maybe he has illnesses which cause weight loss…).
Ike was heavier than Clinton, but it wasn’t from obesity; he was just a relatively burly guy (as you would expect, since chunkers and weaklings don’t usually get made generals…).
Here’s a new lie on Twitter from the people attacking our president over the Puerto Rico death toll.
As far as I know, the official death toll for 9/11 never changed and only included direct casualties:
Too late to give PR “independence” simply b/c anyone descended from the current population can claim US citizenship. So no clean break will ever be possible. Pity, b/c the sole reason for granting citizenship to the islanders in 1917 was to make them eligible for Woodrow Wilson’s draft, for a war we should have stayed out of.
Of course, in practice the current Supreme Court would probably just throw the Bellei precedent out the window and rule that the Constitution guarantees citizenship to everyone on the island, or maybe everyone on the planet, due to mysterious penumbras and emanations visible only to Harvard and Yale Law grads.
We need to divorce PR, but I want a divorce negotiated by a competent divorce lawyer. Instead today's diplomats and judges would roll over and surrender the house and car and perpetual alimony payments instead.
The Philippines is a large country with great ethnic diversity; over 180 living languages are spoken there (most closely related). Tagalog is the heavyweight native language, but still only spoken by around a quarter of the population.
Because of the great number of languages, a lingua franca is necessary for commerce and government. Before WWII and the US occupation this was Spanish; now it is English.
Puerto Rico is a relatively small island dominated by a single ethnic group, which has Spanish as the native language. There hasn’t been any reason to change.
I’ve said it before, but NYC’s fortunes began to turn around for the better in the early 90s when Puerto Ricans left for Connecticut, Mass and PA. Sure, Bill Bratton and Rudy will take the credit, but they shouldn’t. They were blessed by a demographic exodus that no one could have predicted, and no one talks about, even to this day. Okay, it is true that the people replacing Puerto Ricans were not Swedes and Finns, but this just underscores the unique, virulent criminality of our fellow “citizens” from the Caribbean. I suggest people look at Holyoke Mass now versus the 1980s. It’s a completely different town.
Puerto Ricans Have Always Been Badly Off
because racism! and if you disagree then you’re a racist!
Thanks for demonstrating my point. (Or, if you want to be pedantic, an implicit point that was a corollary of what I was saying in the original comment.) In the minds of many ethno-nationalists, like yours, the seemingly simple idea that one can be concerned with the welfare of both Euro-Americans and people who aren’t Euro-Americans and seek policy that fairly judges and adjudicates on their respective interests is incomprehensible. As George W. Bush said about the so called “War on Terror”, “You’re either with us or against us.” Such childish logic did not work out very well there, and I doubt it will here.
As far as your accusation that I am virtue signaling, I myself am a white American who grew up (recently) in a mostly working class Mexican and Chinese neighborhood. While I am not yet of the age to purchase property, I would have no issue doing so in a similar such neighborhood. I was a MINORITY IN MY OWN COMMUNITY!!!1!1!!!1!1! And it was….like, fine? I mean, as one would expect from Robert Putnam’s research, I do think there was a certain lack of social trust and community (though apparently such atomization exists in more homogeneous East Asian cities as well), and certainly me and my family gravitated towards socializing with other whites. But it was a very far cry from the kind of war-torn Mad Max hellscape of social dysfunction that white nationalists seem to think would emerge in a majority non-white community. For the most part, my family got along fine with our non-white neighbors and I and my siblings got along fine with our non-white schoolmates, many of whom were likely the children of illegal immigrants. If white nationalists had not informed me that being an ethnic minority in a community is the worst disaster that could ever befall you, I don’t think I really would have even thought about the matter.
The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world. I wonder how high that of NYC is. That is to say, how many billions of taxpayer dollars have to be unsustainably spent keeping a (relatively) huge percentage of NYCers locked up so that the city can be safe?Replies: @Anonymous
That’s very disproportionately the result of high black violent crime rates. I agree that the white nationalist narrative somewhat accurately describes the results of an increasing black share of the population. However, the vast majority of immigration to the US is from Hispanic and Asian countries. While certainly Hispanics commit crimes at an elevated rate compared to whites, as Ron Unz has argued, the difference is much, much smaller than most immigration restrictionists realize, and I don’t think that the costs of policing mostly intra-racial Hispanic crime are ruinous. Much more important for the public fisc in the long run are ballooning health care costs and the coming increase in the dependency ratio as Baby Boomers retire.
Luis Gutierrez has been my Congressvermin for several terms. He’s all I need to know about Puerto Ricans.
Well, they locked up a bunch of black and to a lesser extent Hispanic criminals. There are still quite a lot of poorer but law-abiding non-whites residing in the city.
A better strategy is to improve people's lives where they live now. A chunk of poverty and other problems in donor countries could be alleviated if they had fewer people. Letting them move foregoes population increase by current residents in receiving countries.
An equilibrium will be reached eventually; immigration as a human improvement project is not something that will last forever.Replies: @Anonymous
Yeah, but according to white nationalists the most important thing is demographics; “just look at Detroit compared to Hiroshima”. (Note how often ethnic nationalists talk about “non-whites” in the abstract but refer to blacks in the particular.) Thus, theoretically the fact that NYC is a port shouldn’t matter, because the absolute uncontrollable social chaos of having a community without a white super majority should make organized economic activity impossible. My point was that this hypothesized chaos has failed to manifest as the result of Hispanic and Asian immigration, though to be fair it did to some extent from earlier black migration.
It’s not, but having a baseline level—research seems to suggest $10,000 per year—matters a lot in terms of being able to acquire basic necessities in terms of food, clothing, housing, et cetera that do genuinely make you happier.
Actually, various ideas for economic development in third world countries in Latin America, the Middle East, South Asia and Africa have mostly fallen flat. For instance, Mexican governments have tried both socialist and neoliberal policy recommendations, without too much success. But when a Mexican person moves to the US and works as a construction worker, cleaning lady or waiter, they produce much more value, and thus make a lot more money, from their labor than they would in their native country.
I don’t think that overpopulation is an issue at least currently in most developed countries. For instance, I don’t think that a white American or Briton with a certain IQ and level of conscientiousness is substantially worse off than they would be if they had been born in Iceland.
I do believe that the coming population explosion in Africa is a very bad thing. However, the most consistent way to decrease population growth is economic development. Unless someone can invent a magic bullet in terms of development—which I think is rather unlikely—the most plausible solution is some sort of controlled temporary economic migration without citizenship, along the lines of what the Gulf States have done. It’s not a panacea, but it’s a lot better than life as a subsistence farmer in a third world country, and I think such a program could be implemented more humanely while still firmly temporarily than the Gulf States have done.
Ultimately the desire for the electric fan beats intangibles like cultural solidarity and a traditional way of life, because human beings at even the most basic level of existence always want to do something to make themselves more comfortable. Having a porcelain potty under the bed beats going to the outhouse on a freezing night.
They’re citizens and could vote or post grievances; furthermore, were this to get off the ground, a maggot-gushing-forth of top lawyers, mysteriously unburdened by work, would quickly be available and on the island to put together legal challenges.
Rogers v. Bellei affirmed that Congress has the power to revoke US citizenship which arises solely from statute. So in theory we can at least make sure that the ones who stayed in Puerto Rico don’t get to keep their US citizenship.
Of course, in practice the current Supreme Court would probably just throw the Bellei precedent out the window and rule that the Constitution guarantees citizenship to everyone on the island, or maybe everyone on the planet, due to mysterious penumbras and emanations visible only to Harvard and Yale Law grads.
We need to divorce PR, but I want a divorce negotiated by a competent divorce lawyer. Instead today’s diplomats and judges would roll over and surrender the house and car and perpetual alimony payments instead.
My only somewhat viable solution would be to literally buy Puerto Ricans out- dangle like $30k cash in front of each one that will give up their statutory US citizenship in exchange for citizenship in a newly independent Peoples Republic of Puerto Rico. Only catch- they can't live on the mainland anymore if they take the buyout. 30k might sound like a lot but it'll probably pay for itself in a few years.Replies: @Lucas McCrudy, @Mr. Rational
This is pretty much my proposal to eliminate the underclasses: require them all (including post-pubescent minors) to use long-term contraception as a condition of receiving public assistance, and give the underperformers a nice fat payoff to be fixed when they turn 18. Continue food and housing assistance for a few years so they don’t immediately form a “lesson to others” group and the high time preference problem will solve itself very rapidly. Eliminating just one Medicaid baby plus the 0-5 years subsidies will pay for the program right there. In 4 years Head Start runs out of new enrollees and can be fully eliminated within 6. Starting at 6 years public schools start to be habitable by humans again. About 12 years in crime rates start to nosedive. Somewhere in there, redistricting hands political power back to Whites, who will already have started to find family formation becoming more affordable.
The only way to lose with this is not to do it.
It wasn’t possible to cut PR loose until the collapse of the Soviet Union. The last thing the US could handle was another Soviet client state in the Carribean.
I don't think that overpopulation is an issue at least currently in most developed countries. For instance, I don't think that a white American or Briton with a certain IQ and level of conscientiousness is substantially worse off than they would be if they had been born in Iceland.
I do believe that the coming population explosion in Africa is a very bad thing. However, the most consistent way to decrease population growth is economic development. Unless someone can invent a magic bullet in terms of development---which I think is rather unlikely---the most plausible solution is some sort of controlled temporary economic migration without citizenship, along the lines of what the Gulf States have done. It's not a panacea, but it's a lot better than life as a subsistence farmer in a third world country, and I think such a program could be implemented more humanely while still firmly temporarily than the Gulf States have done.Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @bomag
Absolutely, I don’t know what the number is and the price of food and other basics varies a lot depending on where you are, but once it starts, people adapt, and then there is no limit. For example if you live in a hot humid climate, having a working electric fan at night to use when you are sleeping can be a life changer. But then you want antibiotics, or comfortable shoes, or a cold drink. There is really no end to it.
Ultimately the desire for the electric fan beats intangibles like cultural solidarity and a traditional way of life, because human beings at even the most basic level of existence always want to do something to make themselves more comfortable. Having a porcelain potty under the bed beats going to the outhouse on a freezing night.
I have to say that Puerto Rico has historically punched well above its weight musically (but not so much these days). I would gladly live in the idealized Puerto Rico of song.
Puerto Ric ans should rename their island nation to Lannister. They should live by the Lannister motto, “We pay our debts.” Then they would have something to be proud of.
We’ve been calling a lot of those poor Western Massachusetts towns near Route 91 (the San Juan Highway) Mayberry RIP for a few years now.
I don't think that overpopulation is an issue at least currently in most developed countries. For instance, I don't think that a white American or Briton with a certain IQ and level of conscientiousness is substantially worse off than they would be if they had been born in Iceland.
I do believe that the coming population explosion in Africa is a very bad thing. However, the most consistent way to decrease population growth is economic development. Unless someone can invent a magic bullet in terms of development---which I think is rather unlikely---the most plausible solution is some sort of controlled temporary economic migration without citizenship, along the lines of what the Gulf States have done. It's not a panacea, but it's a lot better than life as a subsistence farmer in a third world country, and I think such a program could be implemented more humanely while still firmly temporarily than the Gulf States have done.Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @bomag
A little too much straw in that argument. Though demographics could well be the most important thing, it is not the only thing, and there are “Blacktopias” and other such nice places. WNs would say that NYC is nice now, but would be even nicer if it imported Danes rather than El Salvadorans.
Only indirectly creating more value. A clean house in Mexico is the same as a clean house in the US, it is just done for a wealthier person, who is able to value the service higher. One of the insidious features of globalism is that allows the wealthy to “harvest” more wealth by importing cheaper servants, while most of the wealthy swim in rather sheltered economic waters.
On the face of it, that is the structure of the US tiered visa program. But the thing has gotten gamed and adulterated into the oblivion it is today.
The only way to lose with this is not to do it.Replies: @Bubba
You have my vote to be President.
Imbecile who responds makes exactly the imbecile John Birch response you would think. Only imbeciles think welfare is a problem. (Unless it’s corporate or military welfare, that is). Even hardcore conservative thinktankers, if you catch them off the record will laugh and tell you, “of course, welfare is not a problem. What are you, an illiterate troglodyte?” I mean, these troglodytes think people get rich on welfare. And that they would be rich if only they abolished welfare. This kind of anti-welfare attitude is so stupid, I would be ashamed of it and disclaim any relation to it, if I were a self-respecting intelligent conservative.
I got censored on this “free” website because I called an imbecile anti-welfare John Bircher an imbecile too many times. Even though it is true.
Africans always project.
An employer posts definitions for Hispanic/Latino ethnicity:
With the west coast and thereafter most western US states in Spanish or Mexican control from 1513 until 1848, isn’t it a reasonable conjecture that anyone natively born to those states, who lived their lives in those states, especially if they speak Spanish, is, ipso facto, “Hispanic or Latino” on account of “… or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race” ?
Because of the great number of languages, a lingua franca is necessary for commerce and government. Before WWII and the US occupation this was Spanish; now it is English.
Puerto Rico is a relatively small island dominated by a single ethnic group, which has Spanish as the native language. There hasn't been any reason to change.Replies: @TomSchmidt
Thanks, that makes sense. English becoming the lingua Franca covers it.