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From the New York Times editorial board:

Rudy Giuliani’s Racial Myths
By THE EDITORIAL BOARD JULY 11, 2016

For a nation heartsick over the killings of black men by police officers in Louisiana and Minnesota, and the ambush murders of officers by a gunman in Dallas, here comes Rudolph Giuliani, bringing his trademark brew of poisonous disinformation to the discussion.

In his view, the problem is black gangs, murderous black children, the refusal of black protesters to look in the mirror at their “racist” selves, and black parents’ failure to teach their children to respect the police.

“What we’ve got to hear from the black community,” said Mr. Giuliani, in a Sunday morning talk-show appearance that seemed to double as a lecture to black America, “is how and what they are doing among themselves about the crime problem in the black community.” He added, “We wonder, do black lives matter, or only the very few black lives that are killed by white policemen?”

Here’s a better question: How, we wonder, will the country ever get beyond its stunted discourse about racialized violence when people like Mr. Giuliani continue to try to change the subject? Those who remember Mr. Giuliani as the hectoring mayor of New York know what he has to offer any conversation on race and violence — not a lot.

When progressives use the word “conversation” lately, it just means STFU.

 
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  1. I didn’t even click on this headline. It had “innumerate misdirection” written all over it.

  2. Guiliani vs. Christi for a.g.

  3. The left calling anyone else out for “stunted discourse”…

  4. Those who remember Mr. Giuliani as the hectoring mayor of New York know what he has to offer any conversation on race and violence — not a lot.

    On the contrary, anyone who was familiar with New York before Mr. Giuliani was mayor knows what he did to reduce violent crime in the city during his time as its mayor. The improvement was significant.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Crawfurdmuir

    "On the contrary, anyone who was familiar with New York before Mr. Giuliani was mayor knows what he did to reduce violent crime in the city during his time as its mayor. The improvement was significant."

    I remember the first time I went to NYC after Giuliani had been mayor for a little while, and maybe 12 years since I had last been there, I was shocked and amazed at the improvement. It was really an incredible transformation. Also, I had not been aware prior to my visit of how NYC had changed under Giuliani. It was really a wonderful thing to behold.

  5. Am I right that this kind of shameless, cynical hatemongering by “The Editorial Board” would not have been seen in the NY Times in the past?

    Seems like the old guard is now gone, leaving the field for the Che Guevara T-shirt wearing crowd.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @grmbl

    I agree. The NYT editorial page lately has gone noticeably to the left. Hard left. The whole Democrat party has shifted to the left. It's inconceivable that someone like Joe Lieberman would be put on their presidential ballot today.

    Replies: @klk, @Bard of Bumperstickers, @Buffalo Joe

    , @Luke Lea
    @grmbl

    hatemongering -- I'm going to add that to my vocabulary. E.g., "Elites who stoke black rage with false narratives are hatemongering."

  6. IRONY ALERT

    Giuliani’s policies helped make Times Square safe again.

    • Replies: @David In TN
    @countenance

    Whatever their station, leftists are invariably irony-challenged.

  7. This Black Lives Matter stuff is so completely over the top ridiculous. The counter points are so calm, logical, and obvious. I’m actually sick of hearing them.

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family”

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.

    Even some lifelong Democrats I know in NYC are absolutely horrified by de Blasio.

    • Replies: @countenance
    @Massimo Heitor

    Because the disruption of the "Western-prescribed nuclear family" has worked out so well for black people.

    Then again, "disrupting" the "Western-prescribed nuclear family" would be an electoral benefit to the blue team, because, as we all know, from reading Steve Sailer all these years, the white cishet nuclear family and the ability to form them is directly and almost perfectly correlated with red team political success. I suspect Democrat partisan loyalty rather than black racial concern is the prime reason BLM lists that as a "value."

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Neoconned, @Arclight, @Former Darfur

    , @al gore rhythms
    @Massimo Heitor

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family”

    The full quote is

    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable"

    In principle I'd agree with them that the Western nuclear family model is unhealthy and that it would be better if children were raised with input from their extended families, so I don't think this can necessarily be described as 'nuts' or far-left Marxist madness.

    Of course in practice they probably just mean taxing other people and giving the money to them. But that's another matter.

    Replies: @Foreign Expert, @guest, @Eric Novak, @Eric Novak

    , @IBC
    @Massimo Heitor

    I looked at that webpage and was also surprised to learn that BLM was founded by three women: A daughter of Nigerian immigrants who grew up in Arizona, a black lesbian from LA who has a biracial transgender spouse, and another queer-identified black woman from LA with a strong interest in West African divination as practiced in Vodou and Santería.

    With roots so far outside the traditional black American mainstream, it's really surprising how much encouragement BLM has received from the media and establishment, especially considering that there's been a national surge in black on black violence since it was handed the megaphone a couple of years ago. If the BLM leadership is as savvy and self-interested as they appear to be, I wouldn't be surprised if they secretly plan on voting for Trump just to prolong their careers...

    It's especially ironic that one of the BLM founders is the child of Nigerian immigrants. Their black lives mattered... and that's why they left Nigeria to come to the US where they knew they'd be safe! Does she miss the tribal violence? Is that what this is about?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Percy Gryce, @Jus' Sayin'..., @guest

    , @Jack D
    @Massimo Heitor

    I wonder how many black people, even BLM supporters , know about the "Guiding Principles" , which also included support for being "queer affirming" and "transgender affirming" ?

    http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/

    These sound a lot more like Democrat Party Coalition of the Fringes type issues than things that most black people actually care about or maybe even actively oppose.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @jon

    , @yaqub the mad scientist
    @Massimo Heitor

    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family”.

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.

    You must not know a lot of "hard core leftists". I do, and this has been part of their program for a long time- at least since Marx in Europe. American leftists embraced this in the 1960's as part of their "total assault on honk(ie) culture".

    Among blacks, angry single black women started embracing this as a redirect from the absent black father syndrome about 25 years ago. I never saw a black man spouting the destroy the nuclear family rhetoric.

    White academic/activists who live traditionally and talk radically have been projecting their liberation fantasies onto blacks for some time: riots, non-nuclear family structures, venting anger at the police, and so forth.

    This convergence of white leftist theory and black facts-on-the-ground is what is relatively new. That's where gay marriage, transgender, polyandry, and primitive binary nature of antifa culture come in: pseudo-intellectual whites now have sanctioned lifestyle pathways to authentic fringiness that not even their 60's antecedents really had. Most blacks would have been repulsed by this stuff then, and would have viewed it as white stuff until quite recently. BLM and similar groups now embracing this is what is truly different. Even 10 years ago, you wouldn't have seen such a convergence.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Massimo Heitor

    Massimo, The term "Western prescribed Nuclear Family" is what keeps this world and especially, the Third World functioning. Any place that you find the Nuclear Family marginalized, you find disorder and chaos. With a single motherhood rate in excess of 78% and in some inner cities, nearing 100%, the dissolution of the family is one of the biggest problems the black community faces, not cops, of any race.

    , @tris
    @Massimo Heitor


    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family”

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.
     
    Its not nuts, its Soros 101. Destruction of traditional western society is what his Open Society Project is all about. And we all know why Soros is doing this...
    , @Olorin
    @Massimo Heitor

    What they say:

    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family”

    What they mean:

    "We are furious unto frenzy because we know there's no chance in hell Nicholas Christakis would choose us as mates over Erika."

    , @PiltdownMan
    @Massimo Heitor


    “...Western-prescribed nuclear family”
     
    Er, what Western-prescribed nuclear family?

    You'd think that there is an implacable, heartless component to Western white values that breaks up those wonderful warm extended families which are the natural tendency of peoples and makes us all live in small nuclear groups.

    Nuclear families in late industrial Western societies are an artifact of geographic disruption of extended families by modern economic opportunity, located principally in cities. People (mostly men) left small towns with wife and kids, perforce as a nuclear unit, to find better paying jobs. Siblings were thus separated by the imperatives of the modern economy. That has been happening for about a century now, perhaps more. No prescription there.

    In small town America and Europe, to this day, it is not unusual to find Grandma, Grandpa, Uncle Jim, Aunt Mabel and all the cousins living within a few miles of each other, if not within walking distance, as in the pre-automobile era. Granted, that's now a minority phenomenon.

    In this, Western society is not that different from most societies that have ever lived on Earth.

    Go to a large modern Chinese or Indian metropolis, and you'll find the "Chinese-prescribed" or "Indian-prescribed" nuclear family. They haven't become that way recently because of their evilcoldwhite cultures, anymore than we have. They are becoming that way because of modern economic growth and opportunity.

    Nor are Africans part of large family agglomerations because of their goodwarm natures and values. It's because they do not live in very industrialized economies.

    We have become nuclear because education and the location of modern jobs and opportunities separates us from the rest of our families, not because we are heartless narcissists.

    Replies: @IHTG, @Unzerker

  8. @Massimo Heitor
    This Black Lives Matter stuff is so completely over the top ridiculous. The counter points are so calm, logical, and obvious. I'm actually sick of hearing them.

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family"

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.

    Even some lifelong Democrats I know in NYC are absolutely horrified by de Blasio.

    Replies: @countenance, @al gore rhythms, @IBC, @Jack D, @yaqub the mad scientist, @Buffalo Joe, @tris, @Olorin, @PiltdownMan

    Because the disruption of the “Western-prescribed nuclear family” has worked out so well for black people.

    Then again, “disrupting” the “Western-prescribed nuclear family” would be an electoral benefit to the blue team, because, as we all know, from reading Steve Sailer all these years, the white cishet nuclear family and the ability to form them is directly and almost perfectly correlated with red team political success. I suspect Democrat partisan loyalty rather than black racial concern is the prime reason BLM lists that as a “value.”

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @countenance


    I suspect Democrat partisan loyalty rather than black racial concern is the prime reason BLM lists that as a “value.”
     
    That would explain black leaders' stance on immigration, too.
    , @Neoconned
    @countenance

    I'm beginning to wonder if a lot of white Republicans even would favor a one-time reparation payment if we could get a India/Pakistan style separation between us and certain minorities.

    Give them some place in the south -- areas with good agricultural land. Hell throw in Florida considering it'll be a Cuban hellhole in 30 years -- and build a wall around the south and wish them luck.

    Only catch is all transfer payments, welfare, govt jobs, etc -- end when the separation is occurred.

    Replies: @Bill, @Buffalo Joe, @Forbes

    , @Arclight
    @countenance

    Nailed it.

    Blacks have helpfully conducted a multi-decade/generational experiment in discarding the Western nuclear family in favor of far looser relationships with multiple partners and producing a passel of half-siblings. The results speak for themselves.

    I'll admit that the right really isn't all that interested in black Americans but that indifference is far less damaging than the way the left shows its intense concern for the welfare of its favorite pet minority.

    Replies: @tris

    , @Former Darfur
    @countenance

    Trump should call out BLM in the most excoriating and scatological terms remotely within the scope of accepted vocabulary (i.e., don't use Carlin's seven bad words, but push the envelope hard). The media will scream bloody murder and the people whom he needs to reach will "get it".

  9. I haven’t heard much lately about conversations. I keep hearing we have to listen. Which isn’t even a euphemism. They’re coming out and saying we have to shut up and let them lecture us, otherwise their propaganda won’t work.

  10. actually talking about blacks killing blacks is changing the subject. People do it because they don´t to talk about the real subject, which is of course blacks killing non-blacks and the police trying to prevent them doing it.

    • Replies: @Yak-15
    @Erik Sieven

    I believe the real subject is "should police fear blacks more than other races?" Or "do blacks tend to resist more than other races?" Or "do blacks kill more police than whites?" And so on.

    I think the answers are probably yes to all those questions. But there is still a lot of room for improvement on the end of the police.

    , @Clyde
    @Erik Sieven


    actually talking about blacks killing blacks is changing the subject. People do it because they don´t to talk about the real subject, which is of course blacks killing non-blacks and the police trying to prevent them doing it.
     
    No one dares to say this, it is outside civilized (ie liberal) discourse. Blacks have shown they don't care when blacks kill blacks. Whites, Asians and Hispanics have followed this lead. It is interracial crime score keeping that grabs headlines. When will a politician have the cojones to highlight the real truth about interracial crime, that this is a black on white phenomenon? The naive and uniformed only need google "The Color of Crime". Published years ago and recently updated in time for the Obama/BLM era.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

  11. TV IS FOR LECTURING WHITE GENTILE AMERICA NOT BLACK AMERICA GIULIANI YOU RACIST!!!

  12. Oh, it’s a ‘stunted discourse’ alright. How could we ever address the legacy of slavery when so many say there is nothing whites can do to atone for whiteness? We’ve had HUD and affirmative action, busing to desegregate schools and now charter schools that racially and gender segregate for black males only. We have a black president. His political career was initially funded by black bankers. We have blacks getting jobs just to be black people, paying anywhere from $165k (a BLM leader) to Obama’s wife (about $350k black healthcare outreach).

    But it will never be enough. Meanwhile James Petras writes today about Genocide by Prescription: The ‘Natural History’ of the Declining White Working Class in America. This stuck me:

    Only post-Soviet Russia experienced a similar pattern of declining life expectancy from ‘poisoning’ (alcohol and drugs) following the nationwide destruction of its socialized full employment system and the breakdown of all social services.

    Yes, the parallel to the decline of white America could indeed be compared to the fall of the Soviet Union although we haven’t hit a life expectancy of 45 yet.

    Our working lives have been lived under a bipartisan looting operation. The Democrats held themselves out to be the party who would work for a better deal for the working class. Yet when power was delivered, they were bigger looters.

    Now the billionaire funded BLM wants the beatings to continue. We owe, we owe, we owe. We haven’t done enough, can never do enough, but get on the program anyway. This enables Obama and Hillary to hide from their legacy of failed healthcare reform, failed war reform, failed financial reform, and a failure to address immigration (or the creation of millions of refugees under Obama/Hillary) and the rise of hostility in the Rainbow Coalition.

    The Democrats could have chosen to make a better deal for all working class Americans instead of racial carve-outs in exchange for power. After all, Obama is part of Immelt’s NEWBO, or New Black Overclass. Basically politics is awarding grievance franchises instead of helping the majority of people who need help. This is not a way forward.

    To be serious, reform must look beyond race. The NYT and other advocates of BLM know there is no finish line short of reparations and/or creating a black state as some want. But even if you could partition the US for a black state, it would continue to make demands. Personally, I think radically racial people should be given a chance to have a black ruled world in, say, Liberia. That would be the only way to escape the taint of white supremacy. All POC wishing to stay must accept that this is a very flawed country and we all live in it the best we can. Solutions must be citizen based, not racial.

    This idea is no crazier than what is mainstream today. But I don’t think mainstream is concerned at all for blacks. I think the whole thing is a tactic to avoid admitting that the government and the economy are being flown straight into the ground.

    • Agree: Travis
  13. @Massimo Heitor
    This Black Lives Matter stuff is so completely over the top ridiculous. The counter points are so calm, logical, and obvious. I'm actually sick of hearing them.

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family"

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.

    Even some lifelong Democrats I know in NYC are absolutely horrified by de Blasio.

    Replies: @countenance, @al gore rhythms, @IBC, @Jack D, @yaqub the mad scientist, @Buffalo Joe, @tris, @Olorin, @PiltdownMan

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family”

    The full quote is

    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable”

    In principle I’d agree with them that the Western nuclear family model is unhealthy and that it would be better if children were raised with input from their extended families, so I don’t think this can necessarily be described as ‘nuts’ or far-left Marxist madness.

    Of course in practice they probably just mean taxing other people and giving the money to them. But that’s another matter.

    • Replies: @Foreign Expert
    @al gore rhythms

    Shouldn't that be nuculer family.

    , @guest
    @al gore rhythms

    Indeed, the "village" is the state. The Western nuclear family, sorta like democracy (whatever that is) and "individualism," isn't good in itself (individualism is true on a basic, biological/psychological level, but isn't sufficient for civilization), but I will defend it in favor of what comes after. The brain trust at BLM knows we've already rid ourselves of extended kin groups. They're not fighting the nuclear family so we can go back. It's just one more thing to get rid of, until there's nothing but you on a plain with all of humanity, standing before whoever runs the One World.

    , @Eric Novak
    @al gore rhythms

    What part of mother-father-child is unhealthy again? Since Paleolithic times, it has proven to be more successful than the grandma-half-sibling-crackhead-on-the-couch-who-jams-the-absent-mother-from-time-to-time family model.

    , @Eric Novak
    @al gore rhythms

    Yeah, because Blacks with unknown fathers are highly influenced by the father's brothers and sisters...

  14. Black Lies Murder.

    That is all.

  15. Two points:

    1. This mass freak out by the Left over wave after wave of anti-civilized black murderous violence is making them desperate in their denial—their own egos are cracking, so they know the masses are starting to tune them out. This editorial and the columns like it have all the flavor of Kevin Bacon in Animal House:

    2. Giuliani is looking more and more like a prime contender for V.P. or for A.G., since black crime is now on the table as a possible #1 issue come November, and terrorism is of course up there. If Giuliani came out strongly against illegals and promised to deport them and build a wall—-and if it was clear he wasn’t compromised on the immigration issue—I would say he’d be a great VP.

    But that’s a big if: immigration is the live/die issue for me on the VP.

    In fact, I wouldn’t be too surprised if some devious lefty strategists are hoping for black crime to take off this summer (or worse yet, pushing it to happen) so that black crime becomes the #1 issue due to a summer of black violence—it diminishes Trump’s greatest political point (immigration) and related second point (terrorism and crime by immigrants) while at the same time putting allegations of “racism” against blacks in the news cycle (tying it to the allegations that Trump is “racist”, thus hurting Trump).

    Trump could counter by picking a black VP, of course. He might go the Jesse Ventura route and pick a black with no big time experience (such as that black Milwaukee sheriff law-and-order dude all over the news cycle), but that might hurt him because he’d be obviously playing to the lefty frame (“I’m not racist!”) while hurting him by making it seem like his administration will have no experience.

    P.S. That NYT editorial strikes me as them having a source whispering that Trump is leaning to Giuliani.

    • Agree: Jack Hanson
  16. If you think that editorial was moronic — and there are many choice bits that Steve didn’t quote — then take a gander at the comments. Truly, the level of idiocy among much of the white American populace is staggering.

    • Replies: @Dave
    @peterike

    The best part about the comments is that none of them bother to refute what Giuliani actually says.
    It's like watching an alien species talk to each other. All the empty moral posturing, calling him a liar or claiming that his references were "debunked" long ago. I always point people to the websites for the DOJ or the FBI, as well as the work of Heather McDonald at CityJournal.
    The actual stats, as well as the anecdotal evidence that comes from actual cops and C.O.'s and parole officers and anyone who has spent several years living a couple blocks away from the projects in NYC, as I have, are overwhelmingly against the liberal/progressive narrative.
    The actual stats and the day to day realities of black failure and violence are too embarrassing and painful for both blacks and their white enablers to deal with. Their worldview can't stand in the face of an honest confrontation with the facts, therefore the facts are ignored or obfuscated , and anyone who brings up the facts is shouted down as a racist and a villain.
    It doesn't matter how successful Giuliani actually was during his terms as mayor. That's irrelevant.
    All that matters is the narrative.
    We are basically looking at a religious phenomenon, at least insofar as black and white liberals react to reality. It's really stunning to watch that level of denial play itself out, particularly on the editorial page of the most important paper in the West.

  17. While you can argue other things beyond anyone’s control factored into the historic drops in NYC crime during the Giuliani Administration-crooks going for heroin instead of crack, the high rates of abortions among inner city residents-he is responsible for making NYC significantly safer and more livable.Deploying cops at the times and places were there was crime may have been simple common sense, but doing it made a world of sense. There are statistically significant number of African-American residents of NYC who are alive because of it. And the Times’ HQ is only in Times Square today rather than a suburban office park because of all that. Ingrates, all! Apparently the Slim/Sulzberger partnership would rather their flagship property be surrounded by peep shows, muggers, junkies, , whores, drug dealers and scam artists instead of Disney shows, chain restaurants and tourist-filled luxury hotels.

  18. I’ve never met a black NYer who actually liked Giuliani. He was despised by black NYers long before 9/11. Any efforts of his administration to make black neighborhoods safer bore him zero goodwill.

  19. Exactly – anyone who doesn’t meekly sit back and agree with the progressive perspective is considered to be close-minded, probably a bigot, definitely ignorant of how things really are, such as the sea of white supremacy we all swim in daily. I love looking through my FB feed and seeing all the righteous rhetoric and approving “likes” of pro-BLM posts by lily-white friends who wouldn’t dare live anywhere near the parts of the city where the cops most frequently are called to.

    The line about “changing the subject” says it all. For the Times and the professional left, missing the forest for the trees is the mission now and forever, because it’s the only frame of reference that puts the blame on an institutional actor like law enforcement (which is a stand-in for whites) instead of the mind-boggling and widespread cultural failure that runs through a large percentage of the black community. This way the finger is pointed at police as failing blacks, rather than blacks failing society.

  20. I wish we could have a NYC poll taken right now pitting Guiliani vs DiBlasi , as in “Who do you trust more with your safety and security.”

  21. GIULIANI: First let me say, my deep sympathy for the people of Minnesota, the people of Louisiana, the people of Texas and of Dallas and I’d like them all to remember that though these incidents happened in different ways, they all share it together as Americans. And we — we share this violence together as Americans. So — so maybe whites have to look at it differently and blacks have to look at it differently. Whites have to realize that African-American men have a fear and boys have a fear of being confronted by the police because of some of these incidents. Some people may consider it rational. Some people may consider it irrational. But it’s a reality. It — it exists.

    And there’s a second reality in the — in the black community. And the second reality in the black community is, there’s too much violence in the black community. So a black will die 1 percent or less at the hands of the police and 99 percent of the hands of a civilian, most often another black. So if you want to protect black lives, then you’ve got to protect black lives, not just against police, which happens rarely, although with tremendous attention, and which happens every 14 hours in Chicago. Every 14 hours and we never hear from Black Lives Matter.

    DICKERSON: Well, then —

    GIULIANI: So — so if you want to deal — if you want to deal with this on the black side, you’ve got to teach your children to be respectful to the police and you’ve got to teach your children that the real danger to them is not the police, the real danger to them 99 out of 100 times, 9,900 out of 1,000 times are other black kids who are going to kill them. That’s the way they’re going to die.

    DICKERSON: So, Mr. Mayor —

    GIULIANI: Now, on the — on the white — on the white side, we have to understand that whether we get it or not, there is this extraordinary fear of the police, and police have to be — have to institute a policy of zero tolerance, like we did for crime in New York. Zero tolerance. No disrespect. Way back 14 year ago, Commissioner Howard Safir began a program in New York City called Courtesy, Professionalism and Respect. It was conditioned by — it was continued by the next three police commissioners, including the one just had on now.

  22. One thing that is so typical of this kind of liberal bloviating is that they engage in all kinds of hysterical descriptions of what Giuliani said — “his trademark brew of poisonous disinformation” — but when they actually quote what is presumably the most noxious thing he said, it sounds eminently reasonable:

    “What we’ve got to hear from the black community,” said Mr. Giuliani, in a Sunday morning talk-show appearance that seemed to double as a lecture to black America, “is how and what they are doing among themselves about the crime problem in the black community.” He added, “We wonder, do black lives matter, or only the very few black lives that are killed by white policemen?”

    • Replies: @candid_observer
    @candid_observer

    And of course the editorial failed to include in the quote the lines immediately preceeding the line from Giuliani they did quote:


    I’d also say, be very careful of those kids in the neighborhood and don’t get involved with them because, son, there’s a 99 percent chance they’re going to kill you, not the police. And we’ve got to hear that from the black community. And what we’ve got to hear from the black community is how and what they are doing among themselves about the crime problem in the black community.”
     
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/10/rudy-giuliani-black-fathers-need-to-teach-kids-the-real-danger-to-them-is-not-the-police/

    Funny they didn't mention those lines, considering their claim that Giuliani is spreading "disinformation". One would think they'd take him to task on the numbers, if it was "disinformation". I'm thinking that they knew it was correct, and they didn't want to address the embarrassing point raised by that overwhelming statistic.

    Apparently, not only is it wrong and distracting to think that All Lives Matter, it's wrong and distracting to think that All Black Lives Matter.
    , @CJ
    @candid_observer

    Giuliani makes a great deal of sense and performs well on media. He's certainly had enough experience. Here's an article with a video link and transcript:

    Giuliani’s moment: A clear and clarion voice in opposition to Black Lives Matter rhetoric

  23. @candid_observer
    One thing that is so typical of this kind of liberal bloviating is that they engage in all kinds of hysterical descriptions of what Giuliani said -- "his trademark brew of poisonous disinformation" -- but when they actually quote what is presumably the most noxious thing he said, it sounds eminently reasonable:

    “What we’ve got to hear from the black community,” said Mr. Giuliani, in a Sunday morning talk-show appearance that seemed to double as a lecture to black America, “is how and what they are doing among themselves about the crime problem in the black community.” He added, “We wonder, do black lives matter, or only the very few black lives that are killed by white policemen?”
     

    Replies: @candid_observer, @CJ

    And of course the editorial failed to include in the quote the lines immediately preceeding the line from Giuliani they did quote:

    I’d also say, be very careful of those kids in the neighborhood and don’t get involved with them because, son, there’s a 99 percent chance they’re going to kill you, not the police. And we’ve got to hear that from the black community. And what we’ve got to hear from the black community is how and what they are doing among themselves about the crime problem in the black community.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/10/rudy-giuliani-black-fathers-need-to-teach-kids-the-real-danger-to-them-is-not-the-police/

    Funny they didn’t mention those lines, considering their claim that Giuliani is spreading “disinformation”. One would think they’d take him to task on the numbers, if it was “disinformation”. I’m thinking that they knew it was correct, and they didn’t want to address the embarrassing point raised by that overwhelming statistic.

    Apparently, not only is it wrong and distracting to think that All Lives Matter, it’s wrong and distracting to think that All Black Lives Matter.

  24. Agenda journalism from the NYT pursuing The Narrative of racialized violence. Apparently, it’s always Bull Connor’s Birmingham in America–just don’t mention Connor was a Democrat…

  25. IBC says:
    @Massimo Heitor
    This Black Lives Matter stuff is so completely over the top ridiculous. The counter points are so calm, logical, and obvious. I'm actually sick of hearing them.

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family"

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.

    Even some lifelong Democrats I know in NYC are absolutely horrified by de Blasio.

    Replies: @countenance, @al gore rhythms, @IBC, @Jack D, @yaqub the mad scientist, @Buffalo Joe, @tris, @Olorin, @PiltdownMan

    I looked at that webpage and was also surprised to learn that BLM was founded by three women: A daughter of Nigerian immigrants who grew up in Arizona, a black lesbian from LA who has a biracial transgender spouse, and another queer-identified black woman from LA with a strong interest in West African divination as practiced in Vodou and Santería.

    With roots so far outside the traditional black American mainstream, it’s really surprising how much encouragement BLM has received from the media and establishment, especially considering that there’s been a national surge in black on black violence since it was handed the megaphone a couple of years ago. If the BLM leadership is as savvy and self-interested as they appear to be, I wouldn’t be surprised if they secretly plan on voting for Trump just to prolong their careers…

    It’s especially ironic that one of the BLM founders is the child of Nigerian immigrants. Their black lives mattered… and that’s why they left Nigeria to come to the US where they knew they’d be safe! Does she miss the tribal violence? Is that what this is about?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @IBC


    black lesbian from LA who has a biracial transgender spouse
     
    So she's a black woman who is married to a mulatto man, but she is against traditional nuclear families for others.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @Buffalo Joe

    , @Percy Gryce
    @IBC


    With roots so far outside the traditional black American mainstream, it’s really surprising how much encouragement BLM has received from the media and establishment
     
    Not surprising at all: America's first black president is about as outside the American mainstream--black or white--as is possible to imagine a politically viable person's being.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    @IBC

    Just like "Occupy Wall Street", BLM was a bunch of pathetic losers trying to make themselves feel important until George Soros stepped iun with a big bankroll and other organizational support, e.g., competent organizing staff. All these organizations are Soros sock puppets whether they know it or not. Whether Soros is implementing a rational plan for forwarding his goals and exactly what those goals are is anyone's guess.

    , @guest
    @IBC

    BLM was a label that got smacked onto an already existing movement, and doesn't mean much of anything in itself. Not that the movement is grassrooted and self-directing. You must look at who's funding BLM and similar organizations, who's telling them what to do, who's publicizing them and propagandizing off of them, and who benefits from them. It's a tangled web, and that's the way they want it. (Yes, "they.")

  26. What does Rudy Giuliani know? He only reduced crime in New York City after the disastrous David Dinkins years. But in all seriousness, Giuliani has emerged as one of the sanest voices in the GOP when it comes to black crime: Giuliani just needs to “evolve” some on immigration.

    • Replies: @inertial
    @JohnnyD

    Actually, Giuliani doesn't need to evolve on immigration. I heard him talk sense on illegal immigration 20 years ago.

    Wait a second, I can look it up...

    Ok, here it is. It's a link to the video of a 1995 NPR interview. Start from about 18:30.

    https://archive.org/details/openmind_ep557

    (Sometimes the video refuses to fast forward; took me a few tries.)

    P.S. Note that he wasn't asked about illegal immigration. He came up with it unprompted.

  27. This could have appeared in The Fountainhead’s “Banner” newspaper. Trademark poisonous brew!

  28. “Lately”?

    • Replies: @Bard of Bumperstickers
    @Reg Cæsar

    Exactly.

    The paper of altered record.

  29. “Racial Myths”

    Myths? Like what, exactly? That many, many more blacks are killed by their fellow blacks than by the police?

    Here’s a better question: How, we wonder, will the country ever get beyond its stunted discourse about racialized violence when people like Mr. Giuliani continue to try to change the subject?

    “Stunted” discourse? Stunted as in incomplete, not fully developed, or unwilling to consider all relevant evidence? Jesus Christ, talk about projection.

    I apologize for using Steve’s comments to just emote (and sound like a liberal), but this stuff is getting just… scary. These people are gone. Really gone. “The sky is black! The emperor is fully dressed! And don’t you dare think otherwise or ELSE!

  30. @countenance
    @Massimo Heitor

    Because the disruption of the "Western-prescribed nuclear family" has worked out so well for black people.

    Then again, "disrupting" the "Western-prescribed nuclear family" would be an electoral benefit to the blue team, because, as we all know, from reading Steve Sailer all these years, the white cishet nuclear family and the ability to form them is directly and almost perfectly correlated with red team political success. I suspect Democrat partisan loyalty rather than black racial concern is the prime reason BLM lists that as a "value."

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Neoconned, @Arclight, @Former Darfur

    I suspect Democrat partisan loyalty rather than black racial concern is the prime reason BLM lists that as a “value.”

    That would explain black leaders’ stance on immigration, too.

  31. And of course, with his tough on crime policies, Guiliani saved more black lives than BLM could in their wildest dreams, and the NYT knows it. Lying slime…

  32. @IBC
    @Massimo Heitor

    I looked at that webpage and was also surprised to learn that BLM was founded by three women: A daughter of Nigerian immigrants who grew up in Arizona, a black lesbian from LA who has a biracial transgender spouse, and another queer-identified black woman from LA with a strong interest in West African divination as practiced in Vodou and Santería.

    With roots so far outside the traditional black American mainstream, it's really surprising how much encouragement BLM has received from the media and establishment, especially considering that there's been a national surge in black on black violence since it was handed the megaphone a couple of years ago. If the BLM leadership is as savvy and self-interested as they appear to be, I wouldn't be surprised if they secretly plan on voting for Trump just to prolong their careers...

    It's especially ironic that one of the BLM founders is the child of Nigerian immigrants. Their black lives mattered... and that's why they left Nigeria to come to the US where they knew they'd be safe! Does she miss the tribal violence? Is that what this is about?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Percy Gryce, @Jus' Sayin'..., @guest

    black lesbian from LA who has a biracial transgender spouse

    So she’s a black woman who is married to a mulatto man, but she is against traditional nuclear families for others.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @Jack D

    "So she’s a black woman who is married to a mulatto man, but she is against traditional nuclear families for others."

    Are they really a normal traditional family when her husband is a crossdresser? They are not exactly Leave It To Beaver or Father Knows Best. They are a freakshow family.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Jack D

    Jack, Change mulatto man to mutilated man and I think you have it.

  33. @grmbl
    Am I right that this kind of shameless, cynical hatemongering by "The Editorial Board" would not have been seen in the NY Times in the past?

    Seems like the old guard is now gone, leaving the field for the Che Guevara T-shirt wearing crowd.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Luke Lea

    I agree. The NYT editorial page lately has gone noticeably to the left. Hard left. The whole Democrat party has shifted to the left. It’s inconceivable that someone like Joe Lieberman would be put on their presidential ballot today.

    • Replies: @klk
    @Jack D

    Left, hard left, but bombs: deluges of hard bombs, specially on the Middle East, but not only.

    Inconsistent? Who cares.
    They don't even allow free commenting any longer, and as if it weren't enough there is their "picked comments".

    , @Bard of Bumperstickers
    @Jack D

    "Lately"?

    They've been hard nonsense (like the mainstream right) ever since the CIA took them over:
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-03-28/top-german-journalist-admits-mainstream-media-completely-fake-we-all-lie-cia

    http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/us-military-launches.html

    Right? Left? Divide and conquer. Manufacture "consent of the governed."

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Jack D

    Jack, I listened to a talk show on NPR out of Boston and a caller said to the host....."You know your show would be better if it wasn't always you and four other liberals on your panel." Balance in opinions is obviously the bane of liberals.

    Replies: @Bard of Bumperstickers, @Brutusale

  34. @Massimo Heitor
    This Black Lives Matter stuff is so completely over the top ridiculous. The counter points are so calm, logical, and obvious. I'm actually sick of hearing them.

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family"

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.

    Even some lifelong Democrats I know in NYC are absolutely horrified by de Blasio.

    Replies: @countenance, @al gore rhythms, @IBC, @Jack D, @yaqub the mad scientist, @Buffalo Joe, @tris, @Olorin, @PiltdownMan

    I wonder how many black people, even BLM supporters , know about the “Guiding Principles” , which also included support for being “queer affirming” and “transgender affirming” ?

    http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/

    These sound a lot more like Democrat Party Coalition of the Fringes type issues than things that most black people actually care about or maybe even actively oppose.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @Jack D

    "I wonder how many black people, even BLM supporters , know about the “Guiding Principles” , which also included support for being “queer affirming” and “transgender affirming” ?

    http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/

    These sound a lot more like Democrat Party Coalition of the Fringes type issues than things that most black people actually care about or maybe even actively oppose."

    You are overestimsting how Conservative most Black Americans are. Shaniqua and Tyrone do not politically have anything in common with Sean Hannity and Ted Cruz. Even Low Energy Jeb is too Right Wing for the vast majority of Black Americans.

    Black Americans hate White people a hell of a lot more than they hate Homosexuals. You don't see Barack Hussein Obama's South Central, Inglewood, and Compton sons for example going to Gay West Hollywood to commit knock out games.

    , @jon
    @Jack D


    I wonder how many black people, even BLM supporters , know about the “Guiding Principles” , which also included support for being “queer affirming” and “transgender affirming” ?
     
    There is actually a fair amount of criticism from some corners of the black community upset with the fact that the BLM movement is a "gay movement masquerading as a black movement."

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  35. @Jack D
    @IBC


    black lesbian from LA who has a biracial transgender spouse
     
    So she's a black woman who is married to a mulatto man, but she is against traditional nuclear families for others.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @Buffalo Joe

    “So she’s a black woman who is married to a mulatto man, but she is against traditional nuclear families for others.”

    Are they really a normal traditional family when her husband is a crossdresser? They are not exactly Leave It To Beaver or Father Knows Best. They are a freakshow family.

  36. “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family.” ~ BLM

    This could have come from a number of organizations: feminism, public mass-ed., CIA, circa-1900 captains of industry, etc. . . .

    “The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were- cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?” ~ “1984” by George Orwell

    “Divide et impera: (Latin): DIVIDE AND CONQUER.

    “We have met the enemy and he is us.” ~ Walt Kelly, “Pogo”

    • Agree: Romanian
  37. @IBC
    @Massimo Heitor

    I looked at that webpage and was also surprised to learn that BLM was founded by three women: A daughter of Nigerian immigrants who grew up in Arizona, a black lesbian from LA who has a biracial transgender spouse, and another queer-identified black woman from LA with a strong interest in West African divination as practiced in Vodou and Santería.

    With roots so far outside the traditional black American mainstream, it's really surprising how much encouragement BLM has received from the media and establishment, especially considering that there's been a national surge in black on black violence since it was handed the megaphone a couple of years ago. If the BLM leadership is as savvy and self-interested as they appear to be, I wouldn't be surprised if they secretly plan on voting for Trump just to prolong their careers...

    It's especially ironic that one of the BLM founders is the child of Nigerian immigrants. Their black lives mattered... and that's why they left Nigeria to come to the US where they knew they'd be safe! Does she miss the tribal violence? Is that what this is about?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Percy Gryce, @Jus' Sayin'..., @guest

    With roots so far outside the traditional black American mainstream, it’s really surprising how much encouragement BLM has received from the media and establishment

    Not surprising at all: America’s first black president is about as outside the American mainstream–black or white–as is possible to imagine a politically viable person’s being.

  38. @Jack D
    @Massimo Heitor

    I wonder how many black people, even BLM supporters , know about the "Guiding Principles" , which also included support for being "queer affirming" and "transgender affirming" ?

    http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/

    These sound a lot more like Democrat Party Coalition of the Fringes type issues than things that most black people actually care about or maybe even actively oppose.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @jon

    “I wonder how many black people, even BLM supporters , know about the “Guiding Principles” , which also included support for being “queer affirming” and “transgender affirming” ?

    http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/

    These sound a lot more like Democrat Party Coalition of the Fringes type issues than things that most black people actually care about or maybe even actively oppose.”

    You are overestimsting how Conservative most Black Americans are. Shaniqua and Tyrone do not politically have anything in common with Sean Hannity and Ted Cruz. Even Low Energy Jeb is too Right Wing for the vast majority of Black Americans.

    Black Americans hate White people a hell of a lot more than they hate Homosexuals. You don’t see Barack Hussein Obama’s South Central, Inglewood, and Compton sons for example going to Gay West Hollywood to commit knock out games.

  39. Not that a NYT reader with a >100 IQ deserves/wants to be told anything but STFU.

  40. That the New York Times is practicing deception in this matter should not come as a surprise. The Gray Whore has been lying since the days of its Moscow correspondent Walter Duranty, who in the midst of Stalin’s terror famine of the Ukrainians–costing the lives of several millions and even resulting in cannibalism in the villages–assured readers that the famine was simply a myth.

    • Replies: @Bard of Bumperstickers
    @Ralph Raico

    Humanity is so susceptible to myths, such as talking burning bushes. The problem is not so much the sowers of the seeds of myths, as it is the providers of arable myth soil: the believers.

    "To La Boétie the spectacle of general consent to despotism is puzzling and appalling:

    'I should like merely to understand how it happens that so many men, so many villages, so many cities, so many nations, sometimes suffer under a single tyrant who has no other power than the power they give him; who is able to harm them only to the extent to which they have the willingness to bear with him; who could do them absolutely no injury unless they preferred to put up with him rather than contradict him. Surely a striking situation! Yet it is so common that one must grieve the more and wonder the less at the spectacle of a million men serving in wretchedness, their necks under the yoke, not constrained by a greater multitude than they... ' " http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard78.html

  41. @Jack D
    @grmbl

    I agree. The NYT editorial page lately has gone noticeably to the left. Hard left. The whole Democrat party has shifted to the left. It's inconceivable that someone like Joe Lieberman would be put on their presidential ballot today.

    Replies: @klk, @Bard of Bumperstickers, @Buffalo Joe

    Left, hard left, but bombs: deluges of hard bombs, specially on the Middle East, but not only.

    Inconsistent? Who cares.
    They don’t even allow free commenting any longer, and as if it weren’t enough there is their “picked comments”.

  42. @countenance
    @Massimo Heitor

    Because the disruption of the "Western-prescribed nuclear family" has worked out so well for black people.

    Then again, "disrupting" the "Western-prescribed nuclear family" would be an electoral benefit to the blue team, because, as we all know, from reading Steve Sailer all these years, the white cishet nuclear family and the ability to form them is directly and almost perfectly correlated with red team political success. I suspect Democrat partisan loyalty rather than black racial concern is the prime reason BLM lists that as a "value."

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Neoconned, @Arclight, @Former Darfur

    I’m beginning to wonder if a lot of white Republicans even would favor a one-time reparation payment if we could get a India/Pakistan style separation between us and certain minorities.

    Give them some place in the south — areas with good agricultural land. Hell throw in Florida considering it’ll be a Cuban hellhole in 30 years — and build a wall around the south and wish them luck.

    Only catch is all transfer payments, welfare, govt jobs, etc — end when the separation is occurred.

    • Replies: @Bill
    @Neoconned

    One time payment would not work. Has to be an annuity for the rulers of Bantustan with conditions attached.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Neoconned

    Neo, You just caused a lot of anxiety in Canada. Remember, Canada's south ends at the Niagara River. Lots of Canadian snow birds in Florida and they only deal with less than 3% at home. Would our new black states of America welcome white tourists? Can Disney put the park on wheels?

    , @Forbes
    @Neoconned

    Blackmailers don't relent after one payment--in fact, they never relent. What else is the purpose of welfare?

    Now you propose paying someone to go away? Why would they do that? The gig they've got being paid not to work is a terrific deal...

  43. @Reg Cæsar
    "Lately"?

    Replies: @Bard of Bumperstickers

    Exactly.

    The paper of altered record.

  44. @Jack D
    @grmbl

    I agree. The NYT editorial page lately has gone noticeably to the left. Hard left. The whole Democrat party has shifted to the left. It's inconceivable that someone like Joe Lieberman would be put on their presidential ballot today.

    Replies: @klk, @Bard of Bumperstickers, @Buffalo Joe

    “Lately”?

    They’ve been hard nonsense (like the mainstream right) ever since the CIA took them over:
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-03-28/top-german-journalist-admits-mainstream-media-completely-fake-we-all-lie-cia

    http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/us-military-launches.html

    Right? Left? Divide and conquer. Manufacture “consent of the governed.”

  45. @Massimo Heitor
    This Black Lives Matter stuff is so completely over the top ridiculous. The counter points are so calm, logical, and obvious. I'm actually sick of hearing them.

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family"

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.

    Even some lifelong Democrats I know in NYC are absolutely horrified by de Blasio.

    Replies: @countenance, @al gore rhythms, @IBC, @Jack D, @yaqub the mad scientist, @Buffalo Joe, @tris, @Olorin, @PiltdownMan

    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family”.

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.

    You must not know a lot of “hard core leftists”. I do, and this has been part of their program for a long time- at least since Marx in Europe. American leftists embraced this in the 1960’s as part of their “total assault on honk(ie) culture”.

    Among blacks, angry single black women started embracing this as a redirect from the absent black father syndrome about 25 years ago. I never saw a black man spouting the destroy the nuclear family rhetoric.

    White academic/activists who live traditionally and talk radically have been projecting their liberation fantasies onto blacks for some time: riots, non-nuclear family structures, venting anger at the police, and so forth.

    This convergence of white leftist theory and black facts-on-the-ground is what is relatively new. That’s where gay marriage, transgender, polyandry, and primitive binary nature of antifa culture come in: pseudo-intellectual whites now have sanctioned lifestyle pathways to authentic fringiness that not even their 60’s antecedents really had. Most blacks would have been repulsed by this stuff then, and would have viewed it as white stuff until quite recently. BLM and similar groups now embracing this is what is truly different. Even 10 years ago, you wouldn’t have seen such a convergence.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @yaqub the mad scientist

    Exactly. This BLM statement differs from the old Pants Suit book "It Takes A Village" how, exactly?

    Replies: @guest

  46. @grmbl
    Am I right that this kind of shameless, cynical hatemongering by "The Editorial Board" would not have been seen in the NY Times in the past?

    Seems like the old guard is now gone, leaving the field for the Che Guevara T-shirt wearing crowd.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Luke Lea

    hatemongering — I’m going to add that to my vocabulary. E.g., “Elites who stoke black rage with false narratives are hatemongering.”

  47. @Massimo Heitor
    This Black Lives Matter stuff is so completely over the top ridiculous. The counter points are so calm, logical, and obvious. I'm actually sick of hearing them.

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family"

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.

    Even some lifelong Democrats I know in NYC are absolutely horrified by de Blasio.

    Replies: @countenance, @al gore rhythms, @IBC, @Jack D, @yaqub the mad scientist, @Buffalo Joe, @tris, @Olorin, @PiltdownMan

    Massimo, The term “Western prescribed Nuclear Family” is what keeps this world and especially, the Third World functioning. Any place that you find the Nuclear Family marginalized, you find disorder and chaos. With a single motherhood rate in excess of 78% and in some inner cities, nearing 100%, the dissolution of the family is one of the biggest problems the black community faces, not cops, of any race.

  48. @Jack D
    @IBC


    black lesbian from LA who has a biracial transgender spouse
     
    So she's a black woman who is married to a mulatto man, but she is against traditional nuclear families for others.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @Buffalo Joe

    Jack, Change mulatto man to mutilated man and I think you have it.

  49. @IBC
    @Massimo Heitor

    I looked at that webpage and was also surprised to learn that BLM was founded by three women: A daughter of Nigerian immigrants who grew up in Arizona, a black lesbian from LA who has a biracial transgender spouse, and another queer-identified black woman from LA with a strong interest in West African divination as practiced in Vodou and Santería.

    With roots so far outside the traditional black American mainstream, it's really surprising how much encouragement BLM has received from the media and establishment, especially considering that there's been a national surge in black on black violence since it was handed the megaphone a couple of years ago. If the BLM leadership is as savvy and self-interested as they appear to be, I wouldn't be surprised if they secretly plan on voting for Trump just to prolong their careers...

    It's especially ironic that one of the BLM founders is the child of Nigerian immigrants. Their black lives mattered... and that's why they left Nigeria to come to the US where they knew they'd be safe! Does she miss the tribal violence? Is that what this is about?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Percy Gryce, @Jus' Sayin'..., @guest

    Just like “Occupy Wall Street”, BLM was a bunch of pathetic losers trying to make themselves feel important until George Soros stepped iun with a big bankroll and other organizational support, e.g., competent organizing staff. All these organizations are Soros sock puppets whether they know it or not. Whether Soros is implementing a rational plan for forwarding his goals and exactly what those goals are is anyone’s guess.

  50. @Jack D
    @grmbl

    I agree. The NYT editorial page lately has gone noticeably to the left. Hard left. The whole Democrat party has shifted to the left. It's inconceivable that someone like Joe Lieberman would be put on their presidential ballot today.

    Replies: @klk, @Bard of Bumperstickers, @Buffalo Joe

    Jack, I listened to a talk show on NPR out of Boston and a caller said to the host…..”You know your show would be better if it wasn’t always you and four other liberals on your panel.” Balance in opinions is obviously the bane of liberals.

    • Replies: @Bard of Bumperstickers
    @Buffalo Joe

    If they were truly "liberal", instead of its opposite, authoritarian, they would welcome genuine argument: "liberal" means "free".

    , @Brutusale
    @Buffalo Joe

    WGBH and WBUR kind of lost me in 2004 and lost me for good in 2008 when they went full lunatic. After the loss of Bob Edwards, there really didn't seem to be much of a reason to torture myself with the rest of the claptrap.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  51. @candid_observer
    One thing that is so typical of this kind of liberal bloviating is that they engage in all kinds of hysterical descriptions of what Giuliani said -- "his trademark brew of poisonous disinformation" -- but when they actually quote what is presumably the most noxious thing he said, it sounds eminently reasonable:

    “What we’ve got to hear from the black community,” said Mr. Giuliani, in a Sunday morning talk-show appearance that seemed to double as a lecture to black America, “is how and what they are doing among themselves about the crime problem in the black community.” He added, “We wonder, do black lives matter, or only the very few black lives that are killed by white policemen?”
     

    Replies: @candid_observer, @CJ

    Giuliani makes a great deal of sense and performs well on media. He’s certainly had enough experience. Here’s an article with a video link and transcript:

    Giuliani’s moment: A clear and clarion voice in opposition to Black Lives Matter rhetoric

  52. “When progressives use the word “conversation” lately, it just means STFU.”

    Eric Holder and the Left don’t really want to have an honest conversation about race, because an honest conversation about race involves a lot of “hate facts”, which Leftists don’t want to hear and see. So who are the real cowards? When Rudy Giuliani was stating fact based statistics on Negro criminality it got too hot in the kitchen for Liberals.

    YOU WANT AN HONEST CONVERSATION ABOUT RACE, YOU CAN’T HANDLE AN HONEST CONVERSATION ABOUT RACE.

  53. @countenance
    @Massimo Heitor

    Because the disruption of the "Western-prescribed nuclear family" has worked out so well for black people.

    Then again, "disrupting" the "Western-prescribed nuclear family" would be an electoral benefit to the blue team, because, as we all know, from reading Steve Sailer all these years, the white cishet nuclear family and the ability to form them is directly and almost perfectly correlated with red team political success. I suspect Democrat partisan loyalty rather than black racial concern is the prime reason BLM lists that as a "value."

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Neoconned, @Arclight, @Former Darfur

    Nailed it.

    Blacks have helpfully conducted a multi-decade/generational experiment in discarding the Western nuclear family in favor of far looser relationships with multiple partners and producing a passel of half-siblings. The results speak for themselves.

    I’ll admit that the right really isn’t all that interested in black Americans but that indifference is far less damaging than the way the left shows its intense concern for the welfare of its favorite pet minority.

    • Replies: @tris
    @Arclight


    Blacks have helpfully conducted a multi-decade/generational experiment in discarding the Western nuclear family in favor of far looser relationships with multiple partners and producing a passel of half-siblings. The results speak for themselves.
     
    There are two things at play here:


    First of all Soros is promoting the destruction of traditional Christian society. That's been going on for centuries, nowadays its more in the open as Talmudic forces gain more ground.

    Secondly, in traditional African societies, family structures are more big man, with the stronger men impregnating multiple "wives". In South Africa e.g. Zuma has about 5 “wives” on the gov. payroll. Most of these chieftains have no clue who their children are. Many black men try to emulate this lifestyle. The lesser blacks often have non-committal relationships, where many men basically share several women. The traditional family structure amongst blacks was a product of living under white rule for centuries. The same thing happened to blacks who lived under Apartheid. But is does not reflect the traditional African family structure.
    So family relations are mostly chaotic in Africa, which nicely dovetails with Soros's agenda of destroying traditional Christian western family structures. Soros's wet dream is European families being as dysfunctional as in Africa or black America.

    Nowadays, with classical anthropology having been gutted, and the the PC-barriers in place, people have no idea how primitive and dysfunctional traditional African society really is.

    Replies: @stillCARealist

  54. @countenance
    IRONY ALERT

    Giuliani's policies helped make Times Square safe again.

    Replies: @David In TN

    Whatever their station, leftists are invariably irony-challenged.

  55. jon says:
    @Jack D
    @Massimo Heitor

    I wonder how many black people, even BLM supporters , know about the "Guiding Principles" , which also included support for being "queer affirming" and "transgender affirming" ?

    http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/

    These sound a lot more like Democrat Party Coalition of the Fringes type issues than things that most black people actually care about or maybe even actively oppose.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @jon

    I wonder how many black people, even BLM supporters , know about the “Guiding Principles” , which also included support for being “queer affirming” and “transgender affirming” ?

    There is actually a fair amount of criticism from some corners of the black community upset with the fact that the BLM movement is a “gay movement masquerading as a black movement.”

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @jon

    jon, The BLM of Canada, effectively shut down the Toronto Pride parade until the cowed parade director signed a list of demands which included funding for BLM and the exclusion of police groups, even gay/lesbian cops, at future parades. If you visit the Toronto Globe and Mail website, you will see that the Toronto gay community is becoming vehemently anti-BLM, and rightly so.

  56. @Ralph Raico
    That the New York Times is practicing deception in this matter should not come as a surprise. The Gray Whore has been lying since the days of its Moscow correspondent Walter Duranty, who in the midst of Stalin's terror famine of the Ukrainians--costing the lives of several millions and even resulting in cannibalism in the villages--assured readers that the famine was simply a myth.

    Replies: @Bard of Bumperstickers

    Humanity is so susceptible to myths, such as talking burning bushes. The problem is not so much the sowers of the seeds of myths, as it is the providers of arable myth soil: the believers.

    “To La Boétie the spectacle of general consent to despotism is puzzling and appalling:

    ‘I should like merely to understand how it happens that so many men, so many villages, so many cities, so many nations, sometimes suffer under a single tyrant who has no other power than the power they give him; who is able to harm them only to the extent to which they have the willingness to bear with him; who could do them absolutely no injury unless they preferred to put up with him rather than contradict him. Surely a striking situation! Yet it is so common that one must grieve the more and wonder the less at the spectacle of a million men serving in wretchedness, their necks under the yoke, not constrained by a greater multitude than they… ‘ ” http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard78.html

  57. @Buffalo Joe
    @Jack D

    Jack, I listened to a talk show on NPR out of Boston and a caller said to the host....."You know your show would be better if it wasn't always you and four other liberals on your panel." Balance in opinions is obviously the bane of liberals.

    Replies: @Bard of Bumperstickers, @Brutusale

    If they were truly “liberal”, instead of its opposite, authoritarian, they would welcome genuine argument: “liberal” means “free”.

  58. @Massimo Heitor
    This Black Lives Matter stuff is so completely over the top ridiculous. The counter points are so calm, logical, and obvious. I'm actually sick of hearing them.

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family"

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.

    Even some lifelong Democrats I know in NYC are absolutely horrified by de Blasio.

    Replies: @countenance, @al gore rhythms, @IBC, @Jack D, @yaqub the mad scientist, @Buffalo Joe, @tris, @Olorin, @PiltdownMan

    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family”

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.

    Its not nuts, its Soros 101. Destruction of traditional western society is what his Open Society Project is all about. And we all know why Soros is doing this…

  59. Obama in Dallas on the shooter: he had “righteous anger”.

    Where is Trump’s voice?

  60. @peterike
    If you think that editorial was moronic -- and there are many choice bits that Steve didn't quote -- then take a gander at the comments. Truly, the level of idiocy among much of the white American populace is staggering.

    Replies: @Dave

    The best part about the comments is that none of them bother to refute what Giuliani actually says.
    It’s like watching an alien species talk to each other. All the empty moral posturing, calling him a liar or claiming that his references were “debunked” long ago. I always point people to the websites for the DOJ or the FBI, as well as the work of Heather McDonald at CityJournal.
    The actual stats, as well as the anecdotal evidence that comes from actual cops and C.O.’s and parole officers and anyone who has spent several years living a couple blocks away from the projects in NYC, as I have, are overwhelmingly against the liberal/progressive narrative.
    The actual stats and the day to day realities of black failure and violence are too embarrassing and painful for both blacks and their white enablers to deal with. Their worldview can’t stand in the face of an honest confrontation with the facts, therefore the facts are ignored or obfuscated , and anyone who brings up the facts is shouted down as a racist and a villain.
    It doesn’t matter how successful Giuliani actually was during his terms as mayor. That’s irrelevant.
    All that matters is the narrative.
    We are basically looking at a religious phenomenon, at least insofar as black and white liberals react to reality. It’s really stunning to watch that level of denial play itself out, particularly on the editorial page of the most important paper in the West.

  61. @Arclight
    @countenance

    Nailed it.

    Blacks have helpfully conducted a multi-decade/generational experiment in discarding the Western nuclear family in favor of far looser relationships with multiple partners and producing a passel of half-siblings. The results speak for themselves.

    I'll admit that the right really isn't all that interested in black Americans but that indifference is far less damaging than the way the left shows its intense concern for the welfare of its favorite pet minority.

    Replies: @tris

    Blacks have helpfully conducted a multi-decade/generational experiment in discarding the Western nuclear family in favor of far looser relationships with multiple partners and producing a passel of half-siblings. The results speak for themselves.

    There are two things at play here:

    First of all Soros is promoting the destruction of traditional Christian society. That’s been going on for centuries, nowadays its more in the open as Talmudic forces gain more ground.

    Secondly, in traditional African societies, family structures are more big man, with the stronger men impregnating multiple “wives”. In South Africa e.g. Zuma has about 5 “wives” on the gov. payroll. Most of these chieftains have no clue who their children are. Many black men try to emulate this lifestyle. The lesser blacks often have non-committal relationships, where many men basically share several women. The traditional family structure amongst blacks was a product of living under white rule for centuries. The same thing happened to blacks who lived under Apartheid. But is does not reflect the traditional African family structure.
    So family relations are mostly chaotic in Africa, which nicely dovetails with Soros’s agenda of destroying traditional Christian western family structures. Soros’s wet dream is European families being as dysfunctional as in Africa or black America.

    Nowadays, with classical anthropology having been gutted, and the the PC-barriers in place, people have no idea how primitive and dysfunctional traditional African society really is.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    @tris

    thanks for the heads up about Jacob Zuma. I'd never heard of him before, but after reading a little he seems to be quite a piece of work. He would probably fit in nicely with a Clinton administration.

  62. @JohnnyD
    What does Rudy Giuliani know? He only reduced crime in New York City after the disastrous David Dinkins years. But in all seriousness, Giuliani has emerged as one of the sanest voices in the GOP when it comes to black crime: Giuliani just needs to "evolve" some on immigration.

    Replies: @inertial

    Actually, Giuliani doesn’t need to evolve on immigration. I heard him talk sense on illegal immigration 20 years ago.

    Wait a second, I can look it up…

    Ok, here it is. It’s a link to the video of a 1995 NPR interview. Start from about 18:30.

    https://archive.org/details/openmind_ep557

    (Sometimes the video refuses to fast forward; took me a few tries.)

    P.S. Note that he wasn’t asked about illegal immigration. He came up with it unprompted.

  63. @Massimo Heitor
    This Black Lives Matter stuff is so completely over the top ridiculous. The counter points are so calm, logical, and obvious. I'm actually sick of hearing them.

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family"

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.

    Even some lifelong Democrats I know in NYC are absolutely horrified by de Blasio.

    Replies: @countenance, @al gore rhythms, @IBC, @Jack D, @yaqub the mad scientist, @Buffalo Joe, @tris, @Olorin, @PiltdownMan

    What they say:

    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family”

    What they mean:

    “We are furious unto frenzy because we know there’s no chance in hell Nicholas Christakis would choose us as mates over Erika.”

  64. @Neoconned
    @countenance

    I'm beginning to wonder if a lot of white Republicans even would favor a one-time reparation payment if we could get a India/Pakistan style separation between us and certain minorities.

    Give them some place in the south -- areas with good agricultural land. Hell throw in Florida considering it'll be a Cuban hellhole in 30 years -- and build a wall around the south and wish them luck.

    Only catch is all transfer payments, welfare, govt jobs, etc -- end when the separation is occurred.

    Replies: @Bill, @Buffalo Joe, @Forbes

    One time payment would not work. Has to be an annuity for the rulers of Bantustan with conditions attached.

  65. @IBC
    @Massimo Heitor

    I looked at that webpage and was also surprised to learn that BLM was founded by three women: A daughter of Nigerian immigrants who grew up in Arizona, a black lesbian from LA who has a biracial transgender spouse, and another queer-identified black woman from LA with a strong interest in West African divination as practiced in Vodou and Santería.

    With roots so far outside the traditional black American mainstream, it's really surprising how much encouragement BLM has received from the media and establishment, especially considering that there's been a national surge in black on black violence since it was handed the megaphone a couple of years ago. If the BLM leadership is as savvy and self-interested as they appear to be, I wouldn't be surprised if they secretly plan on voting for Trump just to prolong their careers...

    It's especially ironic that one of the BLM founders is the child of Nigerian immigrants. Their black lives mattered... and that's why they left Nigeria to come to the US where they knew they'd be safe! Does she miss the tribal violence? Is that what this is about?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Percy Gryce, @Jus' Sayin'..., @guest

    BLM was a label that got smacked onto an already existing movement, and doesn’t mean much of anything in itself. Not that the movement is grassrooted and self-directing. You must look at who’s funding BLM and similar organizations, who’s telling them what to do, who’s publicizing them and propagandizing off of them, and who benefits from them. It’s a tangled web, and that’s the way they want it. (Yes, “they.”)

  66. @Neoconned
    @countenance

    I'm beginning to wonder if a lot of white Republicans even would favor a one-time reparation payment if we could get a India/Pakistan style separation between us and certain minorities.

    Give them some place in the south -- areas with good agricultural land. Hell throw in Florida considering it'll be a Cuban hellhole in 30 years -- and build a wall around the south and wish them luck.

    Only catch is all transfer payments, welfare, govt jobs, etc -- end when the separation is occurred.

    Replies: @Bill, @Buffalo Joe, @Forbes

    Neo, You just caused a lot of anxiety in Canada. Remember, Canada’s south ends at the Niagara River. Lots of Canadian snow birds in Florida and they only deal with less than 3% at home. Would our new black states of America welcome white tourists? Can Disney put the park on wheels?

  67. @al gore rhythms
    @Massimo Heitor

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family”

    The full quote is

    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable"

    In principle I'd agree with them that the Western nuclear family model is unhealthy and that it would be better if children were raised with input from their extended families, so I don't think this can necessarily be described as 'nuts' or far-left Marxist madness.

    Of course in practice they probably just mean taxing other people and giving the money to them. But that's another matter.

    Replies: @Foreign Expert, @guest, @Eric Novak, @Eric Novak

    Shouldn’t that be nuculer family.

  68. @al gore rhythms
    @Massimo Heitor

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family”

    The full quote is

    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable"

    In principle I'd agree with them that the Western nuclear family model is unhealthy and that it would be better if children were raised with input from their extended families, so I don't think this can necessarily be described as 'nuts' or far-left Marxist madness.

    Of course in practice they probably just mean taxing other people and giving the money to them. But that's another matter.

    Replies: @Foreign Expert, @guest, @Eric Novak, @Eric Novak

    Indeed, the “village” is the state. The Western nuclear family, sorta like democracy (whatever that is) and “individualism,” isn’t good in itself (individualism is true on a basic, biological/psychological level, but isn’t sufficient for civilization), but I will defend it in favor of what comes after. The brain trust at BLM knows we’ve already rid ourselves of extended kin groups. They’re not fighting the nuclear family so we can go back. It’s just one more thing to get rid of, until there’s nothing but you on a plain with all of humanity, standing before whoever runs the One World.

  69. @jon
    @Jack D


    I wonder how many black people, even BLM supporters , know about the “Guiding Principles” , which also included support for being “queer affirming” and “transgender affirming” ?
     
    There is actually a fair amount of criticism from some corners of the black community upset with the fact that the BLM movement is a "gay movement masquerading as a black movement."

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    jon, The BLM of Canada, effectively shut down the Toronto Pride parade until the cowed parade director signed a list of demands which included funding for BLM and the exclusion of police groups, even gay/lesbian cops, at future parades. If you visit the Toronto Globe and Mail website, you will see that the Toronto gay community is becoming vehemently anti-BLM, and rightly so.

  70. I lived in New York when Rudy first took over as mayor. The annual homicide rate at the time was roughly 2000 per year, with the majority of victims being black. After a few years under Guliani, he got the homicide rate down to about 600 a year.

    Rudy Guliani has saved a whole lot more black lives than anybody associated with Black Lives Matter.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Great Again


    I lived in New York when Rudy first took over as mayor. The annual homicide rate at the time was roughly 2000 per year…
     
    You mean "total".

    Replies: @silviosilver

  71. @Erik Sieven
    actually talking about blacks killing blacks is changing the subject. People do it because they don´t to talk about the real subject, which is of course blacks killing non-blacks and the police trying to prevent them doing it.

    Replies: @Yak-15, @Clyde

    I believe the real subject is “should police fear blacks more than other races?” Or “do blacks tend to resist more than other races?” Or “do blacks kill more police than whites?” And so on.

    I think the answers are probably yes to all those questions. But there is still a lot of room for improvement on the end of the police.

  72. …said Mr. Giuliani, in a Sunday morning talk-show appearance that seemed to double as a lecture to black America…

    Who is more in need of a lecture than black America? As columnist James Kilpatrick put it 50 years ago, “The law-abiding majority of this country, imperfect as it is, ought to put a hard question to large elements of the Negro community: When in the name of God are you people going to shape up?”

    A lecture to black America was what was so glaringly missing from Obama’s speech at the Dallas memorial service for the slain officers.

    How about a little explanation of exactly why police officers are more nervous when dealing with blacks? About how blacks are disproportionately likely to resist arrest and disproportionately likely to kill police officers? The president sort of hinted at the violent nature of black neighborhoods, but quickly segued to rehashing slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, and the countless micro-aggressions blacks experience daily.

    He also draws an equivalence between the assassination of the police officers and the police shootings of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile. To Obama, these are ll outrages. However, we don’t know yet whether the shootings of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile were unjustified. They may have been entirely justified, even if unfortunate. They were not deliberate assassinations like that committed by Micah Johnson.

    He ruefully talks about how black parents have to give their kids The Talk. “When mothers and fathers raised their kids right, and have the talk about how to respond if stopped by a police officer — yes, sir; no, sir — but still fear that something terrible may happen when their child walks out the door; still fear that kids being stupid and not quite doing things right might end in tragedy.” I guess being stupid encompasses behavior like fighting with police officers or going to a park and brandishing Airsoft pistols that are indistinguishable from actual firearms.

    It would be helpful if Obama expressed some regret at his own reflective tendency to defend blacks like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown who later prove to be thugs, responsible for their own deaths. He should suggest that in the future we withhold judgment about police shootings until all the facts are in. (Right–and monkeys might fly out of my butt, as Wayne would say.)

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Harry Baldwin

    I never thought much of BHO to begin with and he has lived down to, and beneath, my expectations.

  73. @Harry Baldwin
    ...said Mr. Giuliani, in a Sunday morning talk-show appearance that seemed to double as a lecture to black America...

    Who is more in need of a lecture than black America? As columnist James Kilpatrick put it 50 years ago, "The law-abiding majority of this country, imperfect as it is, ought to put a hard question to large elements of the Negro community: When in the name of God are you people going to shape up?”

    A lecture to black America was what was so glaringly missing from Obama's speech at the Dallas memorial service for the slain officers.

    How about a little explanation of exactly why police officers are more nervous when dealing with blacks? About how blacks are disproportionately likely to resist arrest and disproportionately likely to kill police officers? The president sort of hinted at the violent nature of black neighborhoods, but quickly segued to rehashing slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, and the countless micro-aggressions blacks experience daily.

    He also draws an equivalence between the assassination of the police officers and the police shootings of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile. To Obama, these are ll outrages. However, we don't know yet whether the shootings of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile were unjustified. They may have been entirely justified, even if unfortunate. They were not deliberate assassinations like that committed by Micah Johnson.

    He ruefully talks about how black parents have to give their kids The Talk. "When mothers and fathers raised their kids right, and have the talk about how to respond if stopped by a police officer — yes, sir; no, sir — but still fear that something terrible may happen when their child walks out the door; still fear that kids being stupid and not quite doing things right might end in tragedy." I guess being stupid encompasses behavior like fighting with police officers or going to a park and brandishing Airsoft pistols that are indistinguishable from actual firearms.

    It would be helpful if Obama expressed some regret at his own reflective tendency to defend blacks like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown who later prove to be thugs, responsible for their own deaths. He should suggest that in the future we withhold judgment about police shootings until all the facts are in. (Right--and monkeys might fly out of my butt, as Wayne would say.)

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    I never thought much of BHO to begin with and he has lived down to, and beneath, my expectations.

  74. Perhaps Mr. Trump will be wise enough not to pick Giuliani as his veep, as a ticket headed by two New Yorkers will not play well west of the Appalachians or south of the Mason-Dixon line.

    Picking Pence is not a sound move because Mr. Trump is not a social conservative but Pence is; and Mr. Trump’s hope of attracting the so-called Reagan Democrats lies in not having a social conservative running mate who will cause friction and whose presence on the ticket will repel Reagan Democrats and other swing voters.

    Giuliani would be a perfect Trump choice for Attorney General, or even as head of DHS.

    Just a wild idea – discuss! – wouldn’t it help Mr. Trump if his veep pick would be one of the generals that Obama sacked? After all, Americans – even Enemedia-Pravda – love to “Support The Troops.” Why not pick someone like General McChrystal, who was sacked purely because he made outside-the-Overton-Window comments to a Rolling Stone scribbler?

  75. @Erik Sieven
    actually talking about blacks killing blacks is changing the subject. People do it because they don´t to talk about the real subject, which is of course blacks killing non-blacks and the police trying to prevent them doing it.

    Replies: @Yak-15, @Clyde

    actually talking about blacks killing blacks is changing the subject. People do it because they don´t to talk about the real subject, which is of course blacks killing non-blacks and the police trying to prevent them doing it.

    No one dares to say this, it is outside civilized (ie liberal) discourse. Blacks have shown they don’t care when blacks kill blacks. Whites, Asians and Hispanics have followed this lead. It is interracial crime score keeping that grabs headlines. When will a politician have the cojones to highlight the real truth about interracial crime, that this is a black on white phenomenon? The naive and uniformed only need google “The Color of Crime”. Published years ago and recently updated in time for the Obama/BLM era.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Clyde

    http://www.colorofcrime.com/2016/03/the-color-of-crime-2016-revised-edition/

  76. @Clyde
    @Erik Sieven


    actually talking about blacks killing blacks is changing the subject. People do it because they don´t to talk about the real subject, which is of course blacks killing non-blacks and the police trying to prevent them doing it.
     
    No one dares to say this, it is outside civilized (ie liberal) discourse. Blacks have shown they don't care when blacks kill blacks. Whites, Asians and Hispanics have followed this lead. It is interracial crime score keeping that grabs headlines. When will a politician have the cojones to highlight the real truth about interracial crime, that this is a black on white phenomenon? The naive and uniformed only need google "The Color of Crime". Published years ago and recently updated in time for the Obama/BLM era.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

  77. Giuliani enjoys a sort of political afterlife outside of New York long after his use-by date in New York, even on the hard right, such as it exists in that town. This mystifies New Yorkers.

    They were thoroughly tired of him and his shtick by 9/11 and quickly came to view his attempt to use his leadership in that crisis to bend the term limits for Mayor to his own advantage as the coffin lid on his reputation. He’s done, in that burg.

    It’s fair to say that he is universally viewed as a one note gasbag (Crimeblacks) with no further ideas or nuance by most in NYC. So, the NY Times opinion is not solely a left elite one.

    As for his earlier record, he was a terrific D.A.,, far better than Bharara at policing Wall Street. And he destroyed the mob, then and as Mayor, a singular achievement.

    As Mayor, it was Bill Bratton who actually conceived and began the fight against crime, helped amply by tougher courts and sentencing laws of that period which swept over a hundred thousand hustlers, pimps, pushers and three-card monte artists to jail and off the streets of NYC. 1990s Wall Street prosperity and rising tax revenues took care of the rest. Giuliani harvested the credit for that, mostly by keeping up his tough guy persona. He was a good Mayor, but not great, as he made himself out to be. New Yorkers, being New Yorkers, saw through the act eventually.

    I voted for the guy three times. But his moment is long over.

  78. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    There is more and more evidence that Philando and his so-called girlfriend were involved in the robbery a few days earlier:

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/07/12/higher-resolution-images-show-philando-castile-handgun-at-scene-of-shooting/#more-118664

    I wonder what other revelations will turn up?

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    @The most deplorable one

    I have to admit, though, that the gun shown on the ground looks like a Glock 9mm, and so is not the gun used in the robbery several days earlier.

  79. @tris
    @Arclight


    Blacks have helpfully conducted a multi-decade/generational experiment in discarding the Western nuclear family in favor of far looser relationships with multiple partners and producing a passel of half-siblings. The results speak for themselves.
     
    There are two things at play here:


    First of all Soros is promoting the destruction of traditional Christian society. That's been going on for centuries, nowadays its more in the open as Talmudic forces gain more ground.

    Secondly, in traditional African societies, family structures are more big man, with the stronger men impregnating multiple "wives". In South Africa e.g. Zuma has about 5 “wives” on the gov. payroll. Most of these chieftains have no clue who their children are. Many black men try to emulate this lifestyle. The lesser blacks often have non-committal relationships, where many men basically share several women. The traditional family structure amongst blacks was a product of living under white rule for centuries. The same thing happened to blacks who lived under Apartheid. But is does not reflect the traditional African family structure.
    So family relations are mostly chaotic in Africa, which nicely dovetails with Soros's agenda of destroying traditional Christian western family structures. Soros's wet dream is European families being as dysfunctional as in Africa or black America.

    Nowadays, with classical anthropology having been gutted, and the the PC-barriers in place, people have no idea how primitive and dysfunctional traditional African society really is.

    Replies: @stillCARealist

    thanks for the heads up about Jacob Zuma. I’d never heard of him before, but after reading a little he seems to be quite a piece of work. He would probably fit in nicely with a Clinton administration.

  80. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Crawfurdmuir

    Those who remember Mr. Giuliani as the hectoring mayor of New York know what he has to offer any conversation on race and violence — not a lot.
     
    On the contrary, anyone who was familiar with New York before Mr. Giuliani was mayor knows what he did to reduce violent crime in the city during his time as its mayor. The improvement was significant.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    “On the contrary, anyone who was familiar with New York before Mr. Giuliani was mayor knows what he did to reduce violent crime in the city during his time as its mayor. The improvement was significant.”

    I remember the first time I went to NYC after Giuliani had been mayor for a little while, and maybe 12 years since I had last been there, I was shocked and amazed at the improvement. It was really an incredible transformation. Also, I had not been aware prior to my visit of how NYC had changed under Giuliani. It was really a wonderful thing to behold.

    • Agree: slumber_j
  81. We need to have an open and honest conversation about race. Except the black population is unwilling to listen to white grievances concerning black behavior. It’s always one-sided.

  82. @al gore rhythms
    @Massimo Heitor

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family”

    The full quote is

    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable"

    In principle I'd agree with them that the Western nuclear family model is unhealthy and that it would be better if children were raised with input from their extended families, so I don't think this can necessarily be described as 'nuts' or far-left Marxist madness.

    Of course in practice they probably just mean taxing other people and giving the money to them. But that's another matter.

    Replies: @Foreign Expert, @guest, @Eric Novak, @Eric Novak

    What part of mother-father-child is unhealthy again? Since Paleolithic times, it has proven to be more successful than the grandma-half-sibling-crackhead-on-the-couch-who-jams-the-absent-mother-from-time-to-time family model.

  83. @al gore rhythms
    @Massimo Heitor

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family”

    The full quote is

    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable"

    In principle I'd agree with them that the Western nuclear family model is unhealthy and that it would be better if children were raised with input from their extended families, so I don't think this can necessarily be described as 'nuts' or far-left Marxist madness.

    Of course in practice they probably just mean taxing other people and giving the money to them. But that's another matter.

    Replies: @Foreign Expert, @guest, @Eric Novak, @Eric Novak

    Yeah, because Blacks with unknown fathers are highly influenced by the father’s brothers and sisters…

  84. @countenance
    @Massimo Heitor

    Because the disruption of the "Western-prescribed nuclear family" has worked out so well for black people.

    Then again, "disrupting" the "Western-prescribed nuclear family" would be an electoral benefit to the blue team, because, as we all know, from reading Steve Sailer all these years, the white cishet nuclear family and the ability to form them is directly and almost perfectly correlated with red team political success. I suspect Democrat partisan loyalty rather than black racial concern is the prime reason BLM lists that as a "value."

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Neoconned, @Arclight, @Former Darfur

    Trump should call out BLM in the most excoriating and scatological terms remotely within the scope of accepted vocabulary (i.e., don’t use Carlin’s seven bad words, but push the envelope hard). The media will scream bloody murder and the people whom he needs to reach will “get it”.

  85. “For a nation heartsick over the killings of black men by police officers in Louisiana and Minnesota, and the ambush murders of officers by a gunman in Dallas, here comes Rudolph Giuliani, bringing his trademark brew of poisonous disinformation to the discussion.”

    …………his trademark brew of poisonous factual observations.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Mr. Anon

    "…………his trademark brew of poisonous factual observations."

    Yeah, now if he could only be a little more "factual" about himself...

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-feldman/giuliani-the-transvestite_b_42290.html

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  86. @Massimo Heitor
    This Black Lives Matter stuff is so completely over the top ridiculous. The counter points are so calm, logical, and obvious. I'm actually sick of hearing them.

    I love this quote straight from the Black Lives Matter main values web page:

    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family"

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.

    Even some lifelong Democrats I know in NYC are absolutely horrified by de Blasio.

    Replies: @countenance, @al gore rhythms, @IBC, @Jack D, @yaqub the mad scientist, @Buffalo Joe, @tris, @Olorin, @PiltdownMan

    “…Western-prescribed nuclear family”

    Er, what Western-prescribed nuclear family?

    You’d think that there is an implacable, heartless component to Western white values that breaks up those wonderful warm extended families which are the natural tendency of peoples and makes us all live in small nuclear groups.

    Nuclear families in late industrial Western societies are an artifact of geographic disruption of extended families by modern economic opportunity, located principally in cities. People (mostly men) left small towns with wife and kids, perforce as a nuclear unit, to find better paying jobs. Siblings were thus separated by the imperatives of the modern economy. That has been happening for about a century now, perhaps more. No prescription there.

    In small town America and Europe, to this day, it is not unusual to find Grandma, Grandpa, Uncle Jim, Aunt Mabel and all the cousins living within a few miles of each other, if not within walking distance, as in the pre-automobile era. Granted, that’s now a minority phenomenon.

    In this, Western society is not that different from most societies that have ever lived on Earth.

    Go to a large modern Chinese or Indian metropolis, and you’ll find the “Chinese-prescribed” or “Indian-prescribed” nuclear family. They haven’t become that way recently because of their evilcoldwhite cultures, anymore than we have. They are becoming that way because of modern economic growth and opportunity.

    Nor are Africans part of large family agglomerations because of their goodwarm natures and values. It’s because they do not live in very industrialized economies.

    We have become nuclear because education and the location of modern jobs and opportunities separates us from the rest of our families, not because we are heartless narcissists.

    • Replies: @IHTG
    @PiltdownMan

    Paging hbd chick.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    , @Unzerker
    @PiltdownMan

    Even in the middle ages people in NW Europe would mary late (in their twenties) and move out and start a family of their own. That is the Western nuclear family people are talking about.

  87. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @The most deplorable one
    There is more and more evidence that Philando and his so-called girlfriend were involved in the robbery a few days earlier:

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/07/12/higher-resolution-images-show-philando-castile-handgun-at-scene-of-shooting/#more-118664

    I wonder what other revelations will turn up?

    Replies: @The most deplorable one

    I have to admit, though, that the gun shown on the ground looks like a Glock 9mm, and so is not the gun used in the robbery several days earlier.

  88. When progressives use the word “conversation” lately, it just means STFU.

    LOL, now that’s funny. You still have it in you Steve-O…it’s just– buried.

  89. @Mr. Anon
    "For a nation heartsick over the killings of black men by police officers in Louisiana and Minnesota, and the ambush murders of officers by a gunman in Dallas, here comes Rudolph Giuliani, bringing his trademark brew of poisonous disinformation to the discussion."

    ............his trademark brew of poisonous factual observations.

    Replies: @Truth

    “…………his trademark brew of poisonous factual observations.”

    Yeah, now if he could only be a little more “factual” about himself…

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-feldman/giuliani-the-transvestite_b_42290.html

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Truth

    Yeah, Giuliani's penchant for occasionally wearing a dress is creepy. Maybe he's trying to attract a black comedian boyfriend.

    Replies: @Truth, @BB753

  90. @Great Again
    I lived in New York when Rudy first took over as mayor. The annual homicide rate at the time was roughly 2000 per year, with the majority of victims being black. After a few years under Guliani, he got the homicide rate down to about 600 a year.

    Rudy Guliani has saved a whole lot more black lives than anybody associated with Black Lives Matter.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I lived in New York when Rudy first took over as mayor. The annual homicide rate at the time was roughly 2000 per year…

    You mean “total”.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Rate" make sense there. 2000 per year.

    Replies: @res

  91. @PiltdownMan
    @Massimo Heitor


    “...Western-prescribed nuclear family”
     
    Er, what Western-prescribed nuclear family?

    You'd think that there is an implacable, heartless component to Western white values that breaks up those wonderful warm extended families which are the natural tendency of peoples and makes us all live in small nuclear groups.

    Nuclear families in late industrial Western societies are an artifact of geographic disruption of extended families by modern economic opportunity, located principally in cities. People (mostly men) left small towns with wife and kids, perforce as a nuclear unit, to find better paying jobs. Siblings were thus separated by the imperatives of the modern economy. That has been happening for about a century now, perhaps more. No prescription there.

    In small town America and Europe, to this day, it is not unusual to find Grandma, Grandpa, Uncle Jim, Aunt Mabel and all the cousins living within a few miles of each other, if not within walking distance, as in the pre-automobile era. Granted, that's now a minority phenomenon.

    In this, Western society is not that different from most societies that have ever lived on Earth.

    Go to a large modern Chinese or Indian metropolis, and you'll find the "Chinese-prescribed" or "Indian-prescribed" nuclear family. They haven't become that way recently because of their evilcoldwhite cultures, anymore than we have. They are becoming that way because of modern economic growth and opportunity.

    Nor are Africans part of large family agglomerations because of their goodwarm natures and values. It's because they do not live in very industrialized economies.

    We have become nuclear because education and the location of modern jobs and opportunities separates us from the rest of our families, not because we are heartless narcissists.

    Replies: @IHTG, @Unzerker

    Paging hbd chick.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @IHTG

    Fair enough.

    Just to clarify, I'm not talking about that kind of extended family or of conjugality. Just families living in geographic proximity vs. the modern trend of nuclear isolation.

  92. @IHTG
    @PiltdownMan

    Paging hbd chick.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Fair enough.

    Just to clarify, I’m not talking about that kind of extended family or of conjugality. Just families living in geographic proximity vs. the modern trend of nuclear isolation.

  93. @PiltdownMan
    @Massimo Heitor


    “...Western-prescribed nuclear family”
     
    Er, what Western-prescribed nuclear family?

    You'd think that there is an implacable, heartless component to Western white values that breaks up those wonderful warm extended families which are the natural tendency of peoples and makes us all live in small nuclear groups.

    Nuclear families in late industrial Western societies are an artifact of geographic disruption of extended families by modern economic opportunity, located principally in cities. People (mostly men) left small towns with wife and kids, perforce as a nuclear unit, to find better paying jobs. Siblings were thus separated by the imperatives of the modern economy. That has been happening for about a century now, perhaps more. No prescription there.

    In small town America and Europe, to this day, it is not unusual to find Grandma, Grandpa, Uncle Jim, Aunt Mabel and all the cousins living within a few miles of each other, if not within walking distance, as in the pre-automobile era. Granted, that's now a minority phenomenon.

    In this, Western society is not that different from most societies that have ever lived on Earth.

    Go to a large modern Chinese or Indian metropolis, and you'll find the "Chinese-prescribed" or "Indian-prescribed" nuclear family. They haven't become that way recently because of their evilcoldwhite cultures, anymore than we have. They are becoming that way because of modern economic growth and opportunity.

    Nor are Africans part of large family agglomerations because of their goodwarm natures and values. It's because they do not live in very industrialized economies.

    We have become nuclear because education and the location of modern jobs and opportunities separates us from the rest of our families, not because we are heartless narcissists.

    Replies: @IHTG, @Unzerker

    Even in the middle ages people in NW Europe would mary late (in their twenties) and move out and start a family of their own. That is the Western nuclear family people are talking about.

  94. @Truth
    @Mr. Anon

    "…………his trademark brew of poisonous factual observations."

    Yeah, now if he could only be a little more "factual" about himself...

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-feldman/giuliani-the-transvestite_b_42290.html

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Yeah, Giuliani’s penchant for occasionally wearing a dress is creepy. Maybe he’s trying to attract a black comedian boyfriend.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Mr. Anon

    His penchant for "Occasionally wearing a dress"????

    Dude are you feeling OK here, Julie is a fuzzin transvestie; this is not sneaking out to the yard to smoke a cigarette once a month when your wife is not looking.

    , @BB753
    @Mr. Anon

    Actually, A Trump /Giuliani ticket with Giuliani as a woman would be a winner! Just think of it, Ruby Giuliani, the first female vice-president! Now that we know that Caytlin isn't available because Jenner's a Cruz fan, it seems like a winning strategy.
    All Giuliani has to do is dress in drag permanently, come out as a woman on tv and appear on the cover of Vogue, People and Cosmo.

  95. @yaqub the mad scientist
    @Massimo Heitor

    “We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family”.

    That is just so nuts, it would horrify even the hard core leftists that I know.

    You must not know a lot of "hard core leftists". I do, and this has been part of their program for a long time- at least since Marx in Europe. American leftists embraced this in the 1960's as part of their "total assault on honk(ie) culture".

    Among blacks, angry single black women started embracing this as a redirect from the absent black father syndrome about 25 years ago. I never saw a black man spouting the destroy the nuclear family rhetoric.

    White academic/activists who live traditionally and talk radically have been projecting their liberation fantasies onto blacks for some time: riots, non-nuclear family structures, venting anger at the police, and so forth.

    This convergence of white leftist theory and black facts-on-the-ground is what is relatively new. That's where gay marriage, transgender, polyandry, and primitive binary nature of antifa culture come in: pseudo-intellectual whites now have sanctioned lifestyle pathways to authentic fringiness that not even their 60's antecedents really had. Most blacks would have been repulsed by this stuff then, and would have viewed it as white stuff until quite recently. BLM and similar groups now embracing this is what is truly different. Even 10 years ago, you wouldn't have seen such a convergence.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    Exactly. This BLM statement differs from the old Pants Suit book “It Takes A Village” how, exactly?

    • Replies: @guest
    @Brutusale

    She identified "it takes a village" as an African proverb at the time, so maybe BLM is run by black traditionalists.

  96. @Buffalo Joe
    @Jack D

    Jack, I listened to a talk show on NPR out of Boston and a caller said to the host....."You know your show would be better if it wasn't always you and four other liberals on your panel." Balance in opinions is obviously the bane of liberals.

    Replies: @Bard of Bumperstickers, @Brutusale

    WGBH and WBUR kind of lost me in 2004 and lost me for good in 2008 when they went full lunatic. After the loss of Bob Edwards, there really didn’t seem to be much of a reason to torture myself with the rest of the claptrap.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Brutusale

    Brutus, I forgot your Boston, and I think BU connection. The Buffalo Sabres are pressing ahead in their pursuit of Hobey Baker Award winner and Harvard grad, Jimmy Vesey. His signing could have him playing on a line with your boy, Jack Eichel.

  97. @Brutusale
    @yaqub the mad scientist

    Exactly. This BLM statement differs from the old Pants Suit book "It Takes A Village" how, exactly?

    Replies: @guest

    She identified “it takes a village” as an African proverb at the time, so maybe BLM is run by black traditionalists.

  98. @Neoconned
    @countenance

    I'm beginning to wonder if a lot of white Republicans even would favor a one-time reparation payment if we could get a India/Pakistan style separation between us and certain minorities.

    Give them some place in the south -- areas with good agricultural land. Hell throw in Florida considering it'll be a Cuban hellhole in 30 years -- and build a wall around the south and wish them luck.

    Only catch is all transfer payments, welfare, govt jobs, etc -- end when the separation is occurred.

    Replies: @Bill, @Buffalo Joe, @Forbes

    Blackmailers don’t relent after one payment–in fact, they never relent. What else is the purpose of welfare?

    Now you propose paying someone to go away? Why would they do that? The gig they’ve got being paid not to work is a terrific deal…

  99. @Brutusale
    @Buffalo Joe

    WGBH and WBUR kind of lost me in 2004 and lost me for good in 2008 when they went full lunatic. After the loss of Bob Edwards, there really didn't seem to be much of a reason to torture myself with the rest of the claptrap.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Brutus, I forgot your Boston, and I think BU connection. The Buffalo Sabres are pressing ahead in their pursuit of Hobey Baker Award winner and Harvard grad, Jimmy Vesey. His signing could have him playing on a line with your boy, Jack Eichel.

  100. @Mr. Anon
    @Truth

    Yeah, Giuliani's penchant for occasionally wearing a dress is creepy. Maybe he's trying to attract a black comedian boyfriend.

    Replies: @Truth, @BB753

    His penchant for “Occasionally wearing a dress”????

    Dude are you feeling OK here, Julie is a fuzzin transvestie; this is not sneaking out to the yard to smoke a cigarette once a month when your wife is not looking.

  101. @Reg Cæsar
    @Great Again


    I lived in New York when Rudy first took over as mayor. The annual homicide rate at the time was roughly 2000 per year…
     
    You mean "total".

    Replies: @silviosilver

    “Rate” make sense there. 2000 per year.

    • Replies: @res
    @silviosilver

    Agreed, but the terminology does get confusing given that statistics like that can be presented as "rates" in at least three forms: per capita, per unit time, or per capita during unit time. The first is uncommon (usually a duration is at least implicit, e.g. the length of time this data was gathered) and I bet the complaining poster was referring to the difference between the second and third (the second being "total" and the third being "rate").

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  102. @Mr. Anon
    @Truth

    Yeah, Giuliani's penchant for occasionally wearing a dress is creepy. Maybe he's trying to attract a black comedian boyfriend.

    Replies: @Truth, @BB753

    Actually, A Trump /Giuliani ticket with Giuliani as a woman would be a winner! Just think of it, Ruby Giuliani, the first female vice-president! Now that we know that Caytlin isn’t available because Jenner’s a Cruz fan, it seems like a winning strategy.
    All Giuliani has to do is dress in drag permanently, come out as a woman on tv and appear on the cover of Vogue, People and Cosmo.

  103. res says:
    @silviosilver
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Rate" make sense there. 2000 per year.

    Replies: @res

    Agreed, but the terminology does get confusing given that statistics like that can be presented as “rates” in at least three forms: per capita, per unit time, or per capita during unit time. The first is uncommon (usually a duration is at least implicit, e.g. the length of time this data was gathered) and I bet the complaining poster was referring to the difference between the second and third (the second being “total” and the third being “rate”).

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @res

    I didn't detect any time unit.

  104. @res
    @silviosilver

    Agreed, but the terminology does get confusing given that statistics like that can be presented as "rates" in at least three forms: per capita, per unit time, or per capita during unit time. The first is uncommon (usually a duration is at least implicit, e.g. the length of time this data was gathered) and I bet the complaining poster was referring to the difference between the second and third (the second being "total" and the third being "rate").

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I didn’t detect any time unit.

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