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  1. Yeah, I actually have a lot of respect for the Chinese, we just need to make our own masks and ventilators again. I mean, they’re a rising power, what do you expect them to do? What would we have done in the same position?

    If it were me I would have reshored industry with some statement like ‘we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed’, cut immigration while saying ‘immigrants have been the fuel of American expansion but a fire can burn too hot’, and so on.

    Then again, I never got elected anything, so…

    • Agree: Abe, AKAHorace
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    If it were me I would have reshored industry with some statement like ‘we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed’, cut immigration while saying ‘immigrants have been the fuel of American expansion but a fire can burn too hot’, and so on.
     
    This is on the right track.

    Yeah, I actually have a lot of respect for the Chinese, we just need to make our own masks and ventilators again. I mean, they’re a rising power, what do you expect them to do? What would we have done in the same position?
     
    We need to do a whole lot more than just make our own masks and ventilators again though. We need a broader return of US manufacturing: For jobs, national self-esteem, national security, and our sovereignty.

    And if China is a threat as a “rising power,” we need to reshore our manufacturing for that reason alone. We ourselves have made China a rising power by opening our market to them.

    All that aside, immigration restriction is far more important. In part, because it is irreversible.

    Steve seems to have lost interest in it.
    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    "we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed"

    You lack the proper perspective: from the point of view of TPTB, "their own people"'are not at all hungry, not at all unemployed. Their own people are doing just dandy, and we are definitely not "their" people. And if we are hungry and unemployed, they don't care, and they think it's funny, and they're looking for ways to make it worse.
    , @Paul Jolliffe
    I also agree.

    But it is really ironic that Scott McConnell's stepfather was the late, great Sterling Hayden.

    Here's Hayden as Gen. Jack D. Ripper in "Dr. Strangelove" explaining the root of the Communist Conspiracy:

    https://youtu.be/J67wKhddWu4

    , @obwandiyag
    But "reshoring" industry is socialist. Got ya there.
    , @Lockean Proviso

    If it were me I would have reshored industry with some statement like ‘we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed’, cut immigration while saying ‘immigrants have been the fuel of American expansion but a fire can burn too hot’, and so on.
     
    Yes. It's almost like there was a concerted effort to discredit patriotic populism by encouraging the most unqualified, inflammatory, and ineffective candidate possible, but one who happened to be a New York figure involved with mafia and Jewish power circles and enmeshed in international banking and real estate. One who could lie reflexively and, to the desperate rubes, convincingly. One who would demonstrate no real understanding or preservation of the historic American constitutional republic while claiming to defend it.

    It remains to be seen which of national populism or global oligarchy benefits from this crisis.

  2. >It would be nice if we could< live in a fantasy world that you describe.

  3. This is exactly what will happen.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Agree, until the GOP's unfailing efforts to eliminate its own electorate pass a certain threshold. Then it'll be Democrats doing it without any pretense.
    , @AnotherDad

    This is exactly what will happen.
     
    As far as i can tell ... nothing is going to happen.

    This whole episode has been a giant end-to-end rebuke of globalist ideology and our globalist elite. Their ideology not only brought the crisis on quickly, but it revealed that were not only grossly incompetent in not being prepared for the obviously foreseeable consequences of their ideology, but would stick with their tired mantras, decrying quaratine and crying racism ... even as the crisis was upon us

    It's not the corporate wing of the GOP, it's the entire establishment that is adamant in its refusal to do any assessment. Has anyone seen anything? Anything at all that indicates even ... questioning?

    Minoritarian globalism is simply "who we are" and nationalists who want to just go about living their lives with their own people, culture, traditions are not just wrong, but evil--Nazis!

    Minoritarian globalism is simply a new religion. Some combination of Jewish ethnic resentments and Christian universalism. It has it's sacred scriptural narratives--the Holocaust and American slavery (and colonialism in Europe). It has saints--minorities, immigrants, women, various sorts of queers--and devils--deplorable straight white flyover country gentiles. And most importantly, it has salvation--though belief. If you *believe* and think the right things, then you are virtuous and are saved.

    As much as i'd like to think this will be the dawn of a new world ... i don't believe it.

    Trump is negotiating ... for higher oil prices! And making sure there are temporary visas available so we don't have "crops rotting in the fields." He'll be back to making sure there are plenty of H-1Bs soon enough as business "needs people". There's not even talk about a moratorium and as soon as flights are available refugees and immigrants will be pouring in. And Trump is the "nationalist" candidate!
  4. Short term, US business has no good alternative. Until production capacity is domiciled or significantly difused to other Asian tigers, they got us by the ‘nads…and that’s too bad.

    • Agree: epebble
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    Short term, US business has no good alternative. Until production capacity is domiciled or significantly difused to other Asian tigers, they got us by the ‘nads…and that’s too bad.

    What do you mean "Until...". High technology production will never be repatriated/domiciled because we can't do it anymore, not on the industrial scale that will support a consumer based economy. We are second rate. Just get used to it.
  5. So only “needed” insults? Team Fahrenheit is on it!!

  6. Trump was using that language in 2016. Then he followed through with it more than any president in the last two decades. Now you want to go farther but not allow anyone to run on that fact? If anything that has Biden written all over it.

    What a weird comment.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    Trump threw up some fairly meaningless tariffs. Much like the "Wall", a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing, and not changing the facts on the ground. Really disengaging from China would require cooperation from American business leaders and insisting America's business partners disengage as well. That requires leadership, persuasion skills, long term planning and perseverance, none of which are particular strengths of Mr. Trump.
  7. • Replies: @HallParvey
    You do realize that that represents the best America has to offer.
    , @anon
    Perfect. Just perfect.

    Even a stopped clock is right at least once a day.
    This gif should be embedded in every comment thread.
  8. I like Chinese people, but they very much need to hear their government insulted.

    The fact they accept totalitarian communism so passively doesn’t reflect well on them.

    Wuhan Depression Update:

    JC Penney, Neiman Marcus, and 24 Hour Fitness bankruptcies expected this week.

    Palisades Center in West Nyack, N.Y, USA’s 11th largest mall, expected to default soon on its $390 million mortgage.

    Diamond Offshore misses loan payment, bankruptcy expected soon, stock down 99% from its high 15 years ago.

    WTI (the main US oil benchmark) under $16. Many regional blends under $10, with Oklahoma Sour at $2.75 a barrel.

    Actual bankruptcy filings I’ve never mentioned:
    Art Van Furniture, largest chain in the midwest with 169 stores
    Food First: owner of 96 casual Italian restaurants.
    Yuma Energy, Texas shale driller

    • Replies: @Bill P

    I like Chinese people, but they very much need to hear their government insulted.
     
    ^This^

    Chinese casually call their neighbors barbarians all the time, yet they are extremely touchy about the term when it's applied to their own behavior. The CCP exploits this all the time.

    Explicitly document the barbarism of the CCP in regards to the rest of the world, but also toward its own subjects.

    Documenting the way they treat their Christians would be a good start, if anyone in Hollywood could bring themselves to portray Christians in a positive light. That might be too much to ask, but it would be effective.
  9. It doesn’t seem that complicated. Let the Chinese make our t-shirts, sneakers and toasters. But set aside several key categories reserved for domestic production.

    – PPE
    – Steel
    – Critical pharmaceuticals
    – Ventilators

    Trump 4 years ago was talking about steel being a national security item that needed to be wrested away from Chinese companies and he was right. He didn’t mention the other 3, and I can’t really blame him since no one else except maybe Peter Navarro was thinking about this stuff. (Certainly no Democrats)

    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
    "It doesn’t seem that complicated. Let the Chinese make our t-shirts, sneakers and toasters. "

    Then what's the point of having free trade with Mexico if China is going to be making America's cheap stuff?
    , @Elli
    All medical supplies. Normal saline IV bags, gauze, defibrillators, sterile operating packs.... Computer chips and electronics. Rare earth metals and processing. Chemicals.

    And we need trained machinists and production engineers. Better start on that.
    , @TomSchmidt
    What we are missing isn't manufacturing (the USA is STILL the largest manufacturer), but the dense economic network that creates new manufacturing sectors. The printing press was a spin-off of the wine press, and could only have been created by a wine-drinking German, not a beer-drinking one.

    I think you haven't understood how much of the machine-tool industry was driven by clothing manufacture. The diverse manufacturing economy of NYC, now killed by FIRE, started with making machines for clothing and seafaring products. It continued down that line, until it was discovered that industrial land in Manhattan could be more profitably turned into condos. The rail yards on the upper west side were replaced with Trump condos.
  10. Needless insults? No. But how about necessary insults?

    We absolutely must insult, shame, and ridicule Chinese people for their bug-chasing eating habits. Otherwise, how will they change them?

    • Agree: fish
    • Replies: @The Real and Original David
    What business is it of ours?

    Close the borders, end immigration, and the Chinese--and all other foreigners--can choose their own cuisine, no harm.
  11. without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government

    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc. However, that was a pipe dream. The CPC is not going to willingly relinquish power and Xi has, on the Putin model, decided to rule for life. Millions are imprisoned. Civil liberties in HK are disappearing. There’s no reason why we can’t disengage from China AND call out their government. In fact, disengagement may be a necessary prerequisite to our ability to properly call them out for their crimes (and vice versa). They are two sides of the same coin.

    • Disagree: Anonymous (n)
    • Replies: @Tor597
    This is just rhetoric.

    China and the US are basically converging. You can use terms like authoritarian or dictatorial but at the end of the day there just isn't that much of a difference between America and China.

    The reason America can't just do its own thing and instead decides to chimp out on China is because Americans can't conceive of a world that it can't push around or change the rules on when things don't go your way.
    , @Dave Pinsen

    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc.
     
    I've seen similar comments on Twitter, but why should we care what kind of government China has? If it were as democratic as Taiwan or South Korea, it would still be bad for us to have outsourced so much of our manufacturing to China.
    , @Daniel H
    There’s no reason why we can’t disengage from China AND call out their government.

    You make me laugh. A Gweilo calling out a Chinaman. Do you think the Chinaman gives a flip what you or 300 million other Gweilos think about him? Not for a second. China is on a 100 year plan, while we can't keep our heads straight through a four year election cycle. Ha, ha, ha.
    , @Anonymous

    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc. However, that was a pipe dream.
     
    Why do you wish for China to become a less “dictatorial” system?
    , @Anonymous
    Gorbachev - and all the shit that flowed from him - is the strongest moral warning against the CCP being dumb enough to dance to any tune the western shyster pied piper plays ....

    Just reflect on that for a moment.

    The Chinese are not stupid.
    , @Anonymous (n)
    I've lived in China for several years, and my overall impression is that aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll) the Chinese people quite like their government just the way it is, and rightly so. While the "democratic" regimes of the Western world slowly but surely destroy their own people via immigration, neoliberal trade policy, and cultural degeneracy, the Chinese government takes the diametrically opposite approach on these existential issues: little to no immigration, mercantilist trade policy that emphasizes national prosperity over profit seeking by corporate elites, and emphasis on traditional values. To the extent that I as an American would object to the CCP it's that they are doing a great job making China into the world's next great dominant power, and I'm not Chinese.

    Jack D yearns for "Chinese democracy" because he believes it would turn out very similar to post-communist Russia pre-Putin. To be fair, that's certainly a legitimate perspective for Jack D and others of his tribe who would benefit from such an outcomoe. For those of us who are not part of that power axis, however, as well as for the Chinese people themselves, the CCP is doing just fine.

    , @Art Deco
    China's a disagreeable bureaucratic-authoritarian state, but it's current level of abusiveness is 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less severe than was the case 50 years ago. China has been living its best life. You've had since 1840 two periods which weren't suffused with severe and violent disruption - that from about 1871 to about 1916 and that from 1976 to the present. In this particular period, however, you've also had rapid improvement in living standards. I wouldn't begrudge them that; it's just that the country has all sorts of features which make more production fueling more military power to be quite anxiety provoking. Mr. Derbyshire has discussed some of the ugly features of China's political culture which he's observed participating in listservs run by and for dissidents (much less people favorable to the political establishment).
    , @Anonymous

    There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc.
     
    I don't think having a less dictatorial system would help China in terms of favorability among Americans, especially if it made their economic growth and strength even greater. It didn't help the Japanese during the 80s when they peaked, despite Japan being a democracy and US ally. Anti-Japan sentiment was higher in the 80s than anti-China sentiment is now, and pundits were forecasting an inevitable war between the US and Japan in the 90s. It seems more a function of perceived economic strength. A less dictatorial China that continued gaining economic strength would be perceived more unfavorably by the US than a dictatorial China that stagnated and declined economically.
  12. LOL, I’m sure the GOP with get around to cracking down on China real soon now. Right after they put the finishing touches on their blitzkreig defeat of abortion and affirmative action.

    Yeah I foresee about 20-40 years of hot air.

    Face it, the U.S. is not a nation or a country, it’s an economy. It’s a market. You already know what’s going to happen. If the government has to choose between one policy that will make a million people $1,000 richer or one guy a billion dollars richer, it’s going to be the latter. Because a billionaire can fund a campaign, but a million people with $1000 extra dollars in their pocket likely won’t give much to political campaigns, or if they do it will diffuse out to all sorts of random candidates and causes until it all cancels out. It’s just the nature of our system.

    Plenty of people are billionaires because of trade with China, either directly or indirectly. The Waltons. Bezos, partially (how much crap on Amazon comes direct from Chinese sellers.) Apple needs Chinese supply chains. So it doesn’t really matter if free trade with China hurts most Americans, just like it doesn’t really matter that open borders hurts most Americans. There are a handful of very rich people who benefit a lot from the current system, and they care enough to fund campaigns, and they can, and you don’t feel as strongly as they do, and even if you did you can’t fund campaigns. That’s it.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman, SFG
    • Thanks: Rosie, Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    Oh, for the missing gold box.
    , @MBlanc46
    That’s pretty much the situation, SS. It means, and has meant, the end of the post-war America that those of us who are long enough in the tooth can remember. And that is a damned shame.
  13. Anonymous[289] • Disclaimer says:

    DOOMERZ: Good news! Mentally ill zerohedge has found internet doomer heaven!

    It’s a millennial bat flu bitchfest where “NO MEDICAL ADVICE” is the thread rule…

    https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19positive/

    No treatments allowed to be posted!

    So you can read endless cries for help!

    FINALLY! A PLACE WHERE THIS IS NO LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/young-covid-positive-redditors-describe-agony-symptoms-lasting-nearly-two-months-after

  14. I have no idea why anyone would be so precious about “insulting” the CCP. They are certainly not shy of doing the same to any Western government.

    As for the Chinese people, who is insulting them? Certainly not Westerners.

    • Agree: Jack D
  15. @Jack D

    without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government
     
    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc. However, that was a pipe dream. The CPC is not going to willingly relinquish power and Xi has, on the Putin model, decided to rule for life. Millions are imprisoned. Civil liberties in HK are disappearing. There's no reason why we can't disengage from China AND call out their government. In fact, disengagement may be a necessary prerequisite to our ability to properly call them out for their crimes (and vice versa). They are two sides of the same coin.

    This is just rhetoric.

    China and the US are basically converging. You can use terms like authoritarian or dictatorial but at the end of the day there just isn’t that much of a difference between America and China.

    The reason America can’t just do its own thing and instead decides to chimp out on China is because Americans can’t conceive of a world that it can’t push around or change the rules on when things don’t go your way.

  16. Anonymous[179] • Disclaimer says:

    McConnell was a pioneer simp. If he knew any Chinese people he’d also know their undisguised delight in pissing all over Euro-American society (not that they have a ton of respect for negroes, mestizos, and the Elizabethan-Americans on their respective reservations/ghettoes). The exception is Chinese Christians who are automatically judged by the rest to be low-class hicks. The one aspect of the West inspiring genuine respect in China is bourgeois status-striving, or money worship more generally. Depriving your kid of meals until she’s practiced the Mozart violin death march 100 times per week is the essence of civilized feng shui.

    Westmoreland was right, albeit too limited in his assessment to jungle Asians.

    • Replies: @Whitey Whiteman III
    Uhhhhhh... His wife is chinese.
  17. What an asshole. You can’t possibly insult the Chinese government enough. They are Communist mass murderers. It literally doesn’t get any worse.

    I’d also note that we happily killed hundreds of thousands of Germans and Japanese civilians for the crimes of their government. Some insults directed at the Chinese people are pretty freaking tame in comparison.

    • Agree: Jack D, ben tillman
    • Disagree: AKAHorace
  18. Anonymous[275] • Disclaimer says:

    Most of this “ching chong ding dong” stuff comes from Trumpers play-acting as hardcore racists to avoid the uncomfortable reality that the Trumpist agenda in 2020 is basically standard neoliberal fare. Tax cuts, deregulation, line go high, and more money for the MIC.

    • Agree: Peter Akuleyev
  19. Anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s the never-ending American dialectic:

    Liberals: People are smarter than you think!

    Conservatives: People are dumber than you know.

  20. Moving factories from China to Viet Nam or Mexico does us no good at all. We need a protectionist/mercantilist trade policy that forces companies to move their factories back to the US. Sell it here; make it here.

  21. McConnell:

    It would be nice if we could disengage from China– end our dependence on Chinese manufacturing– without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government and people.

    Needless insults? Is that possible?

    Any insults the Chinese are getting are entirely deserved—and are also a signal to the domestic douchebag “big business complicit”: You’re on a slippery slope.

    https://twitter.com/DVLiberatore/status/1247020094594732035

    • LOL: Rosie
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Maybe he is referring to the chink in his armor.
    , @BenKenobi
    Ah yes, the peaceful, honest and tolerant Han. We should welcome more of them to our shores.

    “Stupid round-eye! You give your country away ha-ha!”

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c1/7a/b2/c17ab2c6f76b61c9b2e65e29d434f6c1.jpg
    , @Hypnotoad666
    I'm still pissed about John Birch!
    , @Daemon
    What are you gonna do? Not buy from them?

    HAHAHAHAHAHA.

    What a joke.
    , @Anonymous

    Any insults the Chinese are getting are entirely deserved
     
    It doesn’t matter if they are deserved. The only thing that matters is if they are effective at getting us where we need to go.
    , @Chris Mallory
    I worked with an old boy who was a Marine at Chosin Reservoir. He didn't have a good thing to say about the Chinese. Wouldn't even eat fortune cookies. But he liked them better than he did the US Army.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    For future reference: the two original tweets (@DVLiberatore went private 4/21).

    https://twitter.com/AndrewQuackson/status/1246879277041229830
    https://twitter.com/TLCplMax/status/1246867287136546817
  22. The US Chamber of Commerce really likes to depend on Chinese factories and is one of the biggest lobbyists in the US, making sure that the US will always depend on Chinese factories for all of their essential stuff.

    https://public-accountability.org/report/unmasked-the-corporations-backing-a-lobbying-campaign-against-the-use-of-the-defense-production-act/

  23. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    New Treatment — Covid 19

    Specialized Pro Resolving Mediators

    Any MDs read up in pubmed.

    If you have someone in need or any policy makers please check out.

  24. Why not both?

    Seriously, the demagoguing helps get it done. Most people don’t get motivated from appeals to pure reason, they need a little something to juice their emotions.

  25. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Insults and invective, while occasionally useful for domestic consumption, are not needed. An industrial policy based on volkisch concepts, if not necessarily under that term, is.

    In a pure free market it is ALWAYS more profitable in the short run to offshore or outsource if one is not the world low cost provider. China, right now, mostly is, because of a national socialist government with utter disregard of its pissant workers’ safety, its environment, or such things as previous national socialist governments prided themselves on.

    The only sane solution is a system of tariffs and also a targeted “import offset” against imports based on the level of quality, business integrity, internal environmental and worker safety standards, etc. of a supplying nation. Countries like China would be in effect “least favored nations” because any country with clean, safe, properly documented manufacturing is not going to be able to compete on an even basis. When China upgrades its worker safety, environmental standards, and provides trustworthy traceability so we can determine where an item is actually made and by whom, that will be reduced or eliminated.

    It means consumer prices will go up. No more junk Harbor Freight tools, no more refrigerators made out of chinesium with no replacement parts, no more colossal $200 flat screen TVs. Expensive but repairable, supportable, properly documented stuff will be the norm. Manufacturing jobs will be created.

    Of course, the bovine electorate is too stupid, bovine, and unorganizable to make it happen, so it won’t.

  26. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    McConnell:

    It would be nice if we could disengage from China-- end our dependence on Chinese manufacturing-- without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government and people.
     
    Needless insults? Is that possible?

    Any insults the Chinese are getting are entirely deserved—and are also a signal to the domestic douchebag “big business complicit”: You’re on a slippery slope.

    https://twitter.com/DVLiberatore/status/1247020094594732035

    Maybe he is referring to the chink in his armor.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Maybe he is referring to the chink in his armor.
     
    Nah. He's obviously a proud, grateful alumnus of Pekin High School.


    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uskAAOSwTEteJgBL/s-l1600.jpg

    https://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/8060/3087/1600/DSC_6430.jpg

    Pekin Chinks

    , @ThreeCranes
    A Japanese guy on a trampoline. A little nip in the air.
  27. What kind of Depends-soiling post is this? Only a solipsistic boomer would blame China for a mild, benign virus that kills primarily decrepit, diseased boomers. If kungflu is a bioweapon, then it is a powerfully weak joke.

    God bless Florida’s Governor Desantis opening his state so healthy people may enjoy freedom.

    Fuck Democratic governors and bedshitting boomers like Sailer who advocate killing civilization.

  28. I haven’t heard any insults of the Chinese people.

    I save my hate and my insults for businesses like the NBA, Apple, and all the other Amer. businesses that abandoned the American working man and woman.The Chamber of Commerce is the Devil and the pols that do their bidding should be kicked out of DC. Pelosi and McConnell are the protectors of the CofC.

  29. @ScarletNumber
    Maybe he is referring to the chink in his armor.

    Maybe he is referring to the chink in his armor.

    Nah. He’s obviously a proud, grateful alumnus of Pekin High School.


    Pekin Chinks

    • LOL: Kronos
  30. I think he’s confusing the Chicoms with Yale undergraduates.

    The commies aren’t totalitarian masters of the world’s most populous country because they get their feelings hurt easily. (See e.g., The Long March and the Korean War.)

    And besides, they did kinda infect us with the plague. So we sorta halve to say, like, “that’s not cool bro.” Or something.

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    All we have to do is renounce their holdings of treasury debt--call it a down payment on what they owe us for this continuing nightmare. They'll get the message. Maybe they'll cut us off, too! Good. Maybe they'll even repatriate all the Chinese people in the USA! Heck, I can dream, can't I?
  31. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    McConnell:

    It would be nice if we could disengage from China-- end our dependence on Chinese manufacturing-- without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government and people.
     
    Needless insults? Is that possible?

    Any insults the Chinese are getting are entirely deserved—and are also a signal to the domestic douchebag “big business complicit”: You’re on a slippery slope.

    https://twitter.com/DVLiberatore/status/1247020094594732035

    Ah yes, the peaceful, honest and tolerant Han. We should welcome more of them to our shores.

    “Stupid round-eye! You give your country away ha-ha!”

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    "Stupid round-eye! ... ha-ha!"

    I'm white. My eyes aren't round. They're narrow and hooded. I guess I'm a chink. (I know this comment is stupid. I just wanted to write "chink")
  32. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    McConnell:

    It would be nice if we could disengage from China-- end our dependence on Chinese manufacturing-- without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government and people.
     
    Needless insults? Is that possible?

    Any insults the Chinese are getting are entirely deserved—and are also a signal to the domestic douchebag “big business complicit”: You’re on a slippery slope.

    https://twitter.com/DVLiberatore/status/1247020094594732035

    I’m still pissed about John Birch!

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    We live in a society.

    ~ John Birch ~
     

    If you stay here much longer you’ll all be slitty-eyed.

    ~ Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh ~
     

    What does that mean? Huh? ‘China is here.’ I don't even know what the hell that means.

    ~ Jack Burton ~
     

    https://youtu.be/dC_LI0UWhm4?t=17
  33. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG
    Yeah, I actually have a lot of respect for the Chinese, we just need to make our own masks and ventilators again. I mean, they're a rising power, what do you expect them to do? What would we have done in the same position?

    If it were me I would have reshored industry with some statement like 'we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed', cut immigration while saying 'immigrants have been the fuel of American expansion but a fire can burn too hot', and so on.

    Then again, I never got elected anything, so...

    If it were me I would have reshored industry with some statement like ‘we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed’, cut immigration while saying ‘immigrants have been the fuel of American expansion but a fire can burn too hot’, and so on.

    This is on the right track.

    Yeah, I actually have a lot of respect for the Chinese, we just need to make our own masks and ventilators again. I mean, they’re a rising power, what do you expect them to do? What would we have done in the same position?

    We need to do a whole lot more than just make our own masks and ventilators again though. We need a broader return of US manufacturing: For jobs, national self-esteem, national security, and our sovereignty.

    And if China is a threat as a “rising power,” we need to reshore our manufacturing for that reason alone. We ourselves have made China a rising power by opening our market to them.

    All that aside, immigration restriction is far more important. In part, because it is irreversible.

    Steve seems to have lost interest in it.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    If we can insist that our food has to be grown locally, why can't we insist that our stuff be manufactured locally?

    In terms of the environment and sustainability, that just makes sense to me.
    , @SFG
    Steve seems to have lost interest in it.

    He's probably more worried about dying from COVID-19, which is quite reasonable.
    , @obwandiyag
    But this reshoring thing, don't you understand? is anti-capitalist and, moreover, tree-hugger. You don't want to be called a socialist or an environmentalist do you? A fate worse than coronavirus.
    , @AnotherDad

    All that aside, immigration restriction is far more important. In part, because it is irreversible.
     
    Bingo! Spot on 394.

    As entertaining as these Covid-19 debates are ... big, picture, this virus does not matter.

    And as much as i'd push for cutting out China and on to a "made in America" industrial policy, if we get that and then the response is waving in the rest of Central America and millions of Chinese engineers to make the factories run, then we are much worse off than we are now.

    In contrast a simple final *end* to immigration and we can eventually have a decent nation even if we don't get everything squared away right away.

    In the end, what matters to your nation--what makes your nation, and determines the quality of your nation--is the genes and culture of the people you share it with.

  34. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    McConnell:

    It would be nice if we could disengage from China-- end our dependence on Chinese manufacturing-- without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government and people.
     
    Needless insults? Is that possible?

    Any insults the Chinese are getting are entirely deserved—and are also a signal to the domestic douchebag “big business complicit”: You’re on a slippery slope.

    https://twitter.com/DVLiberatore/status/1247020094594732035

    What are you gonna do? Not buy from them?

    HAHAHAHAHAHA.

    What a joke.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    What a joke.
     
    Oh look, Sick Man of Asia checking in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XilhinETlik
  35. Anonymous[420] • Disclaimer says:

    China was already beginning to disengage from the US. That’s what the whole Belt & Road and Made in China 2025 projects were about.

    The goal of the Belt & Road project is to develop energy and trading networks and markets across Eurasia that would reduce dependence on trade with the US and on US Navy and finance dominated sea based trade. The Made in China 2025 project aims to move Chinese production up the value chain so that it is less dependent on higher end US production.

    If it was simply about “disengagement”, both US elites and ordinary American citizens would have welcomed these projects as opportunities for greater independence and an inward turn towards domestic, internal development. But they haven’t, because disengagement is not the issue. Relative power is. Which is why a major war is likely in the near future. The US has a 10 – 15 year window right now to initiate a war with China before the relative power balance shifts too much.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Troll: Kyle
    • Replies: @Hail

    Which is why a major war is likely in the near future
     
    Define major.

    The Corona Mass Hysteria Pandemic, shoved on us from above, has already done more damage than any realistic war scenario I can imagine (non-nuclear).
    , @Miro23

    But they haven’t, because disengagement is not the issue. Relative power is. Which is why a major war is likely in the near future. The US has a 10 – 15 year window right now to initiate a war with China before the relative power balance shifts too much.
     
    Something very much to keep in mind.

    The British exited their Empire when they saw that it was no longer tenable - but of course they were British looking after British interests.

    The US Empire is completely different. It's run by Jews and looks after Jewish/Zionist interests. From this POV the US is disposable to the last goy if it safeguards their power - which introduces a completely different and more dangerous calculation.
  36. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican
    McConnell:

    It would be nice if we could disengage from China-- end our dependence on Chinese manufacturing-- without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government and people.
     
    Needless insults? Is that possible?

    Any insults the Chinese are getting are entirely deserved—and are also a signal to the domestic douchebag “big business complicit”: You’re on a slippery slope.

    https://twitter.com/DVLiberatore/status/1247020094594732035

    Any insults the Chinese are getting are entirely deserved

    It doesn’t matter if they are deserved. The only thing that matters is if they are effective at getting us where we need to go.

  37. It would be nice if we could disengage from China– end our dependence on Chinese manufacturing

    He’d have been pleased with me tonight. I went to Walmart (the only option within forty miles) to get a Norelco beard trimmer, but they were sold out. I could have gotten a Remington, which is two dollars cheaper (10%), but it is made in China.

    I passed. The Norelco is manufactured elsewhere; Indonesia, I think.

    Two other observations this trip– Some toilet paper is back, but all of the 15-20 colors of bandanas were gone, except plain white.

    And there was a big spot of phlegm in the parking lot near our space. During a viral epidemic. Some things never change. Except for the worse.

    • Replies: @adreadline

    The Norelco is manufactured elsewhere; Indonesia, I think.
     
    You sure? Some of them, at least, then?
    , @Inquiring Mind
    I haven't been near there is quite the while, but the campus of Great Lakes University-Ulyanov had enough loogies on the sidewalk that one had to do quite the dance to avoid them. College kids, these days!

    Part of this is that if you are the kind of serious cyclist whose bike cost more than the Edmunds valuation of the car I drive, I guess taking a swig from your water bottle and then spitting it out is part of the ritual. Runners are spitters too, and they don't always aim it or time it with regard to proximity with mere mortal pedestrians around them. Because those of you going out for a walk during The Crisis and are striving to maintain separation outdoors are finding out that runners have the right-of-way, and they cannot slow down.

    The other part is related to that sign, which was intended to restrict the use of "chew" in public. It may not be as much phlegm but oral tobacco drool. With the restrictions on smoking, it seems that oral tobacco use is burgeoning with the university crowd. Yet I have seen someone drooling an smoking at the same time -- do people combine oral products with a cigarette?
  38. Anonymous[289] • Disclaimer says:

    People should check out Steve Bannon’s podcast. He is some sort of naval military intelligence. He was Navy (actual at sea commander) a long time ago but he got out. So he’s done many other things in his life but listen to his show and all of his thinking is pure IC. So did he really ever get out?

    Bannon hates the Chicoms. And weirdly Bannon loves the D.C. power. He is highly conspiratorial like all OPS guys. Every issue is a downstream component of the Kissingerist global chessboard. He is like a more respectable version of Alex Jones. But where Jones calls bullshit on most everybody —- Bannon is creepily respectful of most all the top power players. He’s the political version of Erik Prince Blackwater. Easy to see why Trump gravitated toward him (and has probably been talking to him on the phone late at night since he “fired” him).

    Anyway he and his team have a lot of contacts and his show has insider info. Episode 125 they talk first hand knowledge of NYC doctors/nurses all quietly using HCQ as a prophylactic and taking no casualties.

    pandemic.warroom.org/podcast/

  39. The desires of the Globalist Robber Barons must come first, and they want to get even filthy richer from trade with Red China.

  40. Actually, the pandemic will accelerate the trend towards Vietnam among other destinations.

    If anyone remembers, the whole point of the TPP was to build an anti-China trading Bloc.

    N95 mask production still won’t be here. It will be in Vietnam, Taiwan, and other friendly countries which are anti-China.

    • Replies: @notsaying
    Getting manufacturing back to our country would be wonderful but I also doubt it will happen. A conservative columnist in our local newspaper talked up bringing back pharmaceuticals ... to North America. He then proceeded to talk up the virtues of the Mexican worker. I was disgusted but cannot say I was surprised. No one wants to pay a fair price for American labor or American goods who is part of our elite. They demand more for less as an automatic right.
  41. OT: Special request from Bernie Sanders to all “Bernie Bro’s”:

    So today I am asking you to support some extraordinary congresswomen — and important leaders of our movement — to ensure they can continue fighting for our values in Congress.

    If you can afford to, can you please split a $5 donation between Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib and our campaign?

    Payback is a bitch.

  42. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    McConnell:

    It would be nice if we could disengage from China-- end our dependence on Chinese manufacturing-- without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government and people.
     
    Needless insults? Is that possible?

    Any insults the Chinese are getting are entirely deserved—and are also a signal to the domestic douchebag “big business complicit”: You’re on a slippery slope.

    https://twitter.com/DVLiberatore/status/1247020094594732035

    I worked with an old boy who was a Marine at Chosin Reservoir. He didn’t have a good thing to say about the Chinese. Wouldn’t even eat fortune cookies. But he liked them better than he did the US Army.

    • LOL: fish
    • Replies: @Old Prude
    I always find it touching the way the Navy sticks up for the Marines like a big sister protecting her retarded little brother.
  43. @Reg Cæsar

    It would be nice if we could disengage from China-- end our dependence on Chinese manufacturing
     
    He'd have been pleased with me tonight. I went to Walmart (the only option within forty miles) to get a Norelco beard trimmer, but they were sold out. I could have gotten a Remington, which is two dollars cheaper (10%), but it is made in China.

    I passed. The Norelco is manufactured elsewhere; Indonesia, I think.

    Two other observations this trip-- Some toilet paper is back, but all of the 15-20 colors of bandanas were gone, except plain white.

    And there was a big spot of phlegm in the parking lot near our space. During a viral epidemic. Some things never change. Except for the worse.


    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GXUAAOSwIztc1Joh/s-l640.jpg

    The Norelco is manufactured elsewhere; Indonesia, I think.

    You sure? Some of them, at least, then?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    The one I saw was not made in China. I hope when it reappears on the shelf that will still be true.

    My first one, bought in the early '70s, was probably manufactured in Eindhoven, the hometown of Philips, and site of the Evoluon.

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/evoluon-eindhoven
  44. Agree with Scott. The Red baiting from the right is a bit much. A polite disengagement is all that is required not saber rattling. Some idiot from Ben Shapiro’s shop tweeted that all options are on the table in regards to China.

    • Replies: @JimB
    I think we should form a consortium with Japan and other countries to disengage economically with China over a three year period. Also, halt any further immigration and student exchange. Leave China to consume its own third rate products and boss around India.
    , @Rosie

    .A polite disengagement is all that is required not saber rattling.
     
    In reality, I think any attempt to politely disengage would be met with a great deal of saber-rattling from China.

    I seem to remember hearing that they targeted industries in Trump country for retaliatory tariffs. That was an act of war right there. I wouldn't put anything past them.

    That said, of course we should try to keep it civil as best we can.
  45. The United States is remarkedly in the same position as Britain was in the early 20th Century as it let itself became engaged in a senseless world war that eventually led to the dissolution of its empire.

    • Replies: @but an humble craftsman
    ... as it started a needless world war ...
    FIFY
    , @Dave Pinsen
    As Ian Fletcher put it, China did to the U.S. what the U.S. did to Britain a hundred years before.
    , @Anonymous

    The United States is remarkedly in the same position as Britain was in the early 20th Century as it let itself became engaged in a senseless world war that eventually led to the dissolution of its empire.
     
    Where is the similarity in the United States? You mean the US letting itself become engaged in the Jews’ conquest of the Middle East?
  46. Somebody’s got to get blamed for all this. The Democrats want to blame Trump, the Republicans want to blame China. If anything, we probably got hosed down by a bigger dose of vitamin C from Italy than from China. But I guess we can’t blame the Italians.

    Fact is, we’ve nobody to blame but ourselves.

    • Agree: Lockean Proviso
  47. @Ed
    Agree with Scott. The Red baiting from the right is a bit much. A polite disengagement is all that is required not saber rattling. Some idiot from Ben Shapiro’s shop tweeted that all options are on the table in regards to China.

    I think we should form a consortium with Japan and other countries to disengage economically with China over a three year period. Also, halt any further immigration and student exchange. Leave China to consume its own third rate products and boss around India.

    • Agree: Ed
    • Replies: @moshe
    I would agree except that I definitely do not want to see them boss around India or continue to conquer Africa.

    Standing with India is easy enough, but we will have to rewrite the narrative of evil colonialists very very quickly in order to have a chance of standing up to the Chinese in Africa and thereby doing not just a heck of a lot of good for us but a heck of a lot of good for Africans. There's no way that Africans are better off under the Chinese than under the British.
  48. @SFG
    Yeah, I actually have a lot of respect for the Chinese, we just need to make our own masks and ventilators again. I mean, they're a rising power, what do you expect them to do? What would we have done in the same position?

    If it were me I would have reshored industry with some statement like 'we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed', cut immigration while saying 'immigrants have been the fuel of American expansion but a fire can burn too hot', and so on.

    Then again, I never got elected anything, so...

    “we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed”

    You lack the proper perspective: from the point of view of TPTB, “their own people”‘are not at all hungry, not at all unemployed. Their own people are doing just dandy, and we are definitely not “their” people. And if we are hungry and unemployed, they don’t care, and they think it’s funny, and they’re looking for ways to make it worse.

    • Replies: @Simon Tugmutton
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUaqFzZLxU
    , @SFG
    Oh sure, I was just saying what my rhetoric would be. Any politician has to be somewhat two-faced; deception is an essential part of statecraft. The point is more that we could frame a nationalist program in a way that would allow us to keep more allies.
    , @moshe
    I keep reading about how people are starving and how supermarkets are empty, put aside for the usual out of the way superbad neighborhoods and towns, I do not see anything of the sort.

    And those out of the way neighborhoods and decrepit towns have had empty markets two weeks out of every month since the beginning of time.

    This whole starvation business, and all these smart autistic boys who were have been hoarding canned goods and toilet paper are a laughing stock and ought to be laughed at and mocked at every opportunity.
  49. Anonymous[393] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve you know who’s a surprisingly good twitter follow? Mockingbird man Brit Hume.

    He tweets like a man with serious regrets. He sat there and took the $$$ and played the game for all those years and now things are getting pretty dark in America. So it’s time to say interesting things on twitter! This is another guy who sounds like a more respectable version of Alex Jones.

    Remember he was on the Comverse Infosys Israel story that was memory holed all those years ago? Israel had backdoored our entire phone system architecture. Then Foxnews dropped it like a hot potato because Ailes was the most blackmailable guy in media right?

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Brit Hume's modus operandi was in evidence a long time ago when he was the chief henchman of Drew Pearson before turning on him!
    , @vinteuil
    Brit Hume is closing in on 80. He knows the score on everything that's happened in D.C. for the last 50 years. And he seems like a basically good guy.
  50. @Dan Hayes
    The United States is remarkedly in the same position as Britain was in the early 20th Century as it let itself became engaged in a senseless world war that eventually led to the dissolution of its empire.

    … as it started a needless world war …
    FIFY

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  51. “…without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government and people. ”

    What a spineless statement. And people wonder why driving out capitulating cucks from the conservative ranks became such a priority in recent years. “I fear demagogy..” wah wah wah cry me a river you sensitive soul.

    For starters, Scott, dont conflate insulting the CCP with insulting “the Chinese people”. Slippery language, that. I haven’t seen much of the latter at all. Last I checked we are still supposed to have free speech in this country, therefore insulting assholes is a right to be exercised, and relished. On that note, fuck you, Scott.

    Additionally, if theres one modern country that deserves the usually hyperbolic comparisons to Hitler’s Germany or Stalin’s Soviet Union, it is Communist China. Concentration camps, ethnic cleansing, organ harvesting, mobile execution squads, secret police, zero freedom of speech… what kind of conservative would support trying to shush “insults” toward this dystopian Communist world power? I mean I know we hate illegal immigration, but sheesh, it is possible that there are high-IQ threats to the American way of life too…

    • Replies: @SFG
    The point (I thought) is more that there's no need to raise tensions unnecessarily. As opposed to raising tensions by shifting supply chains domestically, which is quite necessary.
  52. GOP has been and will continue to be a party of whores for big business and big money.

    • Agree: William Badwhite
    • Replies: @AnotherDad


    GOP has been and will continue to be a party of whores for big business and big money.
     
    But it's also--voters--the party of productive, normal, core Americans.

    Our only shot is to push out the whores and try and make it represent our interests first.
  53. @Ed
    Agree with Scott. The Red baiting from the right is a bit much. A polite disengagement is all that is required not saber rattling. Some idiot from Ben Shapiro’s shop tweeted that all options are on the table in regards to China.

    .A polite disengagement is all that is required not saber rattling.

    In reality, I think any attempt to politely disengage would be met with a great deal of saber-rattling from China.

    I seem to remember hearing that they targeted industries in Trump country for retaliatory tariffs. That was an act of war right there. I wouldn’t put anything past them.

    That said, of course we should try to keep it civil as best we can.

  54. Anon[369] • Disclaimer says:

    Read Eric Striker’s piece on this subject:

    International Finance’s Anti-China Crusade
    https://www.unz.com/estriker/international-finances-anti-china-crusade/

    The plan by the neocons has been to move manufacturing from China to India. Cheaper labor and India is not particularly friendly with Iran, Syria, Venezuela, and Russia.

    There’s also a bipartisan move in the Senate to move the outsourcing of medical production to Israel:

    • Replies: @SFG
    We have a lot more leverage over them than we do China.

    Of course it's still better to make stuff here.
  55. @Jack D

    without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government
     
    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc. However, that was a pipe dream. The CPC is not going to willingly relinquish power and Xi has, on the Putin model, decided to rule for life. Millions are imprisoned. Civil liberties in HK are disappearing. There's no reason why we can't disengage from China AND call out their government. In fact, disengagement may be a necessary prerequisite to our ability to properly call them out for their crimes (and vice versa). They are two sides of the same coin.

    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc.

    I’ve seen similar comments on Twitter, but why should we care what kind of government China has? If it were as democratic as Taiwan or South Korea, it would still be bad for us to have outsourced so much of our manufacturing to China.

    • Agree: botazefa
    • Replies: @Rosie

    I’ve seen similar comments on Twitter, but why should we care what kind of government China has?
     
    I wondered that myself. I think globalists see authoritarian countries as "cheating," that is, getting all the benefits of a globalized, democratized world, but keeping the benefits of authoritarianism for themselves. Like a prisoner's dilemma.
    , @Anonymous

    I’ve seen similar comments on Twitter, but why should we care what kind of government China has? If it were as democratic as Taiwan or South Korea, it would still be bad for us to have outsourced so much of our manufacturing to China.
     
    This.
  56. The problem is that a large segment of the human population is not capable of sustained action in a cool and disciplined manner. They can only act out of emotion and cannot sustain that for extended periods without constant prodding and arousal.

  57. @Dan Hayes
    The United States is remarkedly in the same position as Britain was in the early 20th Century as it let itself became engaged in a senseless world war that eventually led to the dissolution of its empire.

    As Ian Fletcher put it, China did to the U.S. what the U.S. did to Britain a hundred years before.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
    Maybe it started with Britain's theft of Chinese intellectual property in 1848 regarding tea cultivation, which was then a Chinese monopoly. Perfidious Albion...

    "In 1848, the British East India Company sent Robert Fortune on a trip to China's interior, an area forbidden to foreigners. Fortune's mission was to steal the secrets of tea horticulture and manufacturing. The Scotsman donned a disguise and headed into the Wu Si Shan hills in a bold act of corporate espionage."

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-great-british-tea-heist-9866709/

    , @Anonymous
    https://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/objects/lse:seg927jax
  58. Hail says: • Website

    OT:

    A team of four experts (Patrik Hermansson, David Lawrence, Joe Mulhall, Simon Murdoch) has recently published a new book under the following title:

    The International Alt-Right: Fascism in the 21st Century

    I haven’t seen it mentioned here, and the search function turns up nothing, so I wanted to bring this to your attention. According to the index, Steve Sailer is mentioned on pages 39, 41, 55, and 89, for a total of four pages of 268 in the book.

    The preview-mode at Google Books gives the following Sailer snippets:

    Sailer is a prolific writer whose work on race has, while dismissed by critics “as pseudoscience at best and eugenics at worst,” become extremely popular among sections of the alt-right. Sailer graduated from Rice University in 1980 and began writing for National Review in the 1990s, a stint that ended when he was pushed out in 1997. He now writes for several sites associated with the alt-right such as VDARE, Taki’s Magazine, and the Unz Review.

    However, while HBD is popular within the alt-right, Sailer has not wholeheartedly embraced the term itself, though he has written favourably of the movement in Taki’s Magazine. While Sailer, like other HBD advocates, would likely reject …

    Sailer, the father of HBD, is less guarded about its explicitly political ramifications, once stating in an interview with the H.L. Mencken Club that HBD is “both a field of study and a political movement.”

    Positive blurbs for the book are trumpeted from: Jon Cruddas, British MP; Heidi Beirich, US far-left activist (see also an an investigation into the origins of Dr. Heidi Beirich’s radicalization); Dan Stone, UK academic; Mike Wendling, “author of Alt-Right: From 4-chan to the White House;” Christa Hodapp, US academic.

    Here is the contents page:

    On Google Books and scan through the Index to see what people/topics they are mainly discussing, which is pretty funny.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-latest-brouhaha-andrew-sabisky/#comment-3750976

    https://twitter.com/JoeMulhall_/status/1229774389509533697?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
    , @petit bourgeois
    Ask these knuckleheads what a "fascist" is. None of these psuedo-intellectuals can define what a "fascist" is. It literally means whatever the red diaper babies say it means.

    Both "Fascism" and "Marxism" are neo-Hegelian in nature. E.g., seizing the means of production for the good of the nation, or corporatism. Benito seized Olivetti in WWII the same way that Stalin seized agrarian farming of wheat or Mao seized the rice paddies through central economic planning. I've been reading Steve since 2001, and I've never heard a "fascist" call to arms in nearly 20 years.

    Real fascism requires seizing those means to bring the nation out of its backwards nature. But there is a difference: China doesn't make Ferraris or Lamborghinis. They can't even put a monkey into orbit.

    These pinkos also equate Hitler as a "fascist." Germany in 1941 had the same cradle-to-grave welfare programs as modern day Denmark, Netherlands or Sweden. Are they going to equate nationalism socialism of these countries as being fascistict? Methinks not.

    Let's take a look at another element of"Fascism" with a capital "F." You know the kind of "Fascism" espoused by Giovanni Gentile, the philosopher of Fascism. Masculine protest is not a talking point with Steve, e.g. Marcus Garvey marching down the streets of Harlem in full shoulder board uniform with a plumed hat expressing masculine protest. Il Duce did the same thing, to the benefit of all his Raza.

    These people are so freaking stupid they don't even stand up to my sophomoric armchair political analysis.

    Steve: you know you are doing something right when the enemy of a free people call you a fascist (whatever that means). Keep up the good work, comrade.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    Recently, I tried to direct something toward Steve on Twitter by addressing a Tweet to @Steve_Sailer . Within a couple hours of sending it, I was un-followed by someone local who had posted Rachel Maddow blah blah crap on their Twitter feed before. Since I'm in an expat community, I may have really branded myself. Anyway, Steve is infamous!
  59. @Dave Pinsen

    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc.
     
    I've seen similar comments on Twitter, but why should we care what kind of government China has? If it were as democratic as Taiwan or South Korea, it would still be bad for us to have outsourced so much of our manufacturing to China.

    I’ve seen similar comments on Twitter, but why should we care what kind of government China has?

    I wondered that myself. I think globalists see authoritarian countries as “cheating,” that is, getting all the benefits of a globalized, democratized world, but keeping the benefits of authoritarianism for themselves. Like a prisoner’s dilemma.

  60. A villain is required in any public story. You would rather it stay White males as it is now?

    Insulting China and the Chinese is the only way to start a full scale cold war and kill corporate assets and sales in China. Not allow companies to say screw American consumers we will sell in China.

    We must blast insults to China and it’s people all over social media. To force both Xi and nikes hans

  61. Anonymous[359] • Disclaimer says:

    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/493490-foreign-powers-test-us-defenses-amid-coronavirus-pandemic

    The Hill
    April 19, 2020

    Foreign powers test US defenses amid coronavirus pandemic

    BY ELLEN MITCHELL

    U.S. adversaries are probing America’s defenses as the world is preoccupied with the fight against the coronavirus pandemic.

    In the past two weeks, Russia, China, Iran and North Korea have all moved to test Washington in the sea, in the air and on land as U.S. forces have become more restricted in movement amid concerns over the spread of COVID-19.

    There you go China, the neocons and neolibs now officially consider you an enemy. But you already knew this.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/11/03/china-every-day-is-kristallnacht/?arc404=true

    The Washington Post

    In China, every day is Kristallnacht

    By Fred Hiatt
    Editorial page editor
    November 3, 2019

    In China, every day is Kristallnacht.

    Eighty-one years ago this week, in what is also known as the “Night of Broken Glass,” hundreds of synagogues and Jewish cemeteries in Nazi Germany were damaged or destroyed, along with thousands of Jewish-owned businesses. It was in a sense the starting gun for the genocide that culminated in the extermination camps of Auschwitz, Sobibor and Treblinka.

    See China, because you’re friendly to Iran and Russia and unfriendly to international finance, why, you’re just like Hitler!

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    I expect little from the CPC when it comes to things like cultural vandalism, but the Nazi comparison is deeply stupid and inaccurate. As is common in Western media, the Washington Post completely ignores the reality that China leaves the Hui Muslims alone for the most part, and unlike the Jews in Nazi Germany, the Uighurs do get involved in violent, Islamic inspired separatist movements that are not a figment of Beijing's imagination.

    What's going on in Xinjiang is horrible enough as it is. The MSM exaggerating it into something it is not is counterproductive and unhelpful.

  62. What grown man un-ironically uses the term demagogy?

    I’ve been warned my whole life about the evils of populism. Meanwhile, the “elites” gave us two world wars, open borders, and bizarre social engineering. It’s populist instincts that need to be revitalized.

    Pro-tip: go with the “demagogue” every time.

  63. Our financial industry in particular, but our entire economic Elite in general has been made super rich by their association with China, by stripping this country of its factories. What convinces them to give up this extremely prosperous enterprise? No. I’m afraid we’re screwed here.

  64. @Seedub
    Short term, US business has no good alternative. Until production capacity is domiciled or significantly difused to other Asian tigers, they got us by the 'nads...and that's too bad.

    Short term, US business has no good alternative. Until production capacity is domiciled or significantly difused to other Asian tigers, they got us by the ‘nads…and that’s too bad.

    What do you mean “Until…”. High technology production will never be repatriated/domiciled because we can’t do it anymore, not on the industrial scale that will support a consumer based economy. We are second rate. Just get used to it.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Ah, if only every American believing America was doomed, whether second rate, or third world, would leave, with an immigrant or two tucked under their arm. Decay with less people, less traffic, lower housing costs, more solidarity...
  65. “… needless insults of […] government and people.” – Not needless. Liberal democracy can’t do w/o insults. This is the only way people can be mobilized when the rulers decide to go to war. In traditional authoritarian states people are told what to do and they do it. Hate is not necessary. In WWI UK people had to hate the Hun and Americans were propagandized to hate the Jap during WWII. Japanese and German propaganda did not have a comparable level of vitriol and hate towards the people they fought. Portraying yourself as a righteous victim might be a part of it. German and Japanese cultures were based on honor and duty which had no room for victimhood.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Based on the German treatment of Eastern European POWs, and Japanese treatment of, well, everyone, they didn't need to hate. Their very deeply ingrained (and very mistaken, in the case of warfighting) sense of superiority, not honor, led them to treat most captives with horrific contempt. Merely having an authoritarian government does not create, nor excuse, atrocities. And I do think authoritarian states like the Soviet Union had plenty of vicious anti-Nazi propaganda, as they well should have.
    , @Matra
    The Japanese whipped up racial hatred towards Europeans in Asian colonies throughout WW2. Their own internal propaganda portrayed Chinese and others as racially inferior.
  66. Imports from China are of poor quality (except for this plague). But I am pessimistic that the U.S. can ever again produce high-quality products (or services). My broken-record comment: proficient/conscientious/fastidious has unraveled into “get it basically okay.” Thus, we get the basically-okay Boeing Max, and 250,000 annual deaths from medical negligence, and so on. Examples are commonplace in government, institutions, and daily life. If this is somehow reversible, I would like to know what the plan is. Signing-off from Southern California, where the dive boat’s roving night watchman sleeps.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Since it looks like the gyms here might be closed for another month or more, I bought a used Soloflex on Sunday I found on Craig's List. The guy I bought it from was the second owner, and he'd had it since 1990. Solid iron and wood. Made in America:

    Because he refused to utilize the kind of “planned obsolescence” common in consumer goods, which allows for products to fail after a finite period of time, people who bought one Soloflex had no cause to ever buy another.
     
    https://twitter.com/mental_floss/status/1251699545194614791?s=20
  67. @Jack D

    without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government
     
    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc. However, that was a pipe dream. The CPC is not going to willingly relinquish power and Xi has, on the Putin model, decided to rule for life. Millions are imprisoned. Civil liberties in HK are disappearing. There's no reason why we can't disengage from China AND call out their government. In fact, disengagement may be a necessary prerequisite to our ability to properly call them out for their crimes (and vice versa). They are two sides of the same coin.

    There’s no reason why we can’t disengage from China AND call out their government.

    You make me laugh. A Gweilo calling out a Chinaman. Do you think the Chinaman gives a flip what you or 300 million other Gweilos think about him? Not for a second. China is on a 100 year plan, while we can’t keep our heads straight through a four year election cycle. Ha, ha, ha.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    China is on a 100 year plan
     
    Actually, Xi Jinping is on the stay-ahead-of-his-rivals-one-more-day plan. The following is a list of the better-known Chinese coup attempts in the last 50 years:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_Biao#%22Lin_Biao_incident%22_and_death
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hua_Guofeng#Ousting_and_death
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Xilai

    One succeeded. Deng Xiaoping went on to reverse many of Mao's policies in the economic sphere. It's almost certain that power struggles are going on below the surface today, especially among the people turfed by Xi Jinping during his ascent to power, but possibly even involving his inner circle. Note that the commanding general who served the last de jure monarch, the Last Emperor (whose reign was chronicled in Bertolucci's Oscar-winning film), forced his abdication, and attempted to make himself emperor.

    In the last century, with one notorious exception, Western politicians have been docile eunuchs who serve their turn. In contrast, Chinese politicians are much more similar to the Companions who fought alongside Alexander - they seek power in their own right by hook or by crook, via palace coup or mutiny in ways that would be recognizable to their Chinese forebears thousands of years ago. That's why Xi Jinping's horizons are much shorter term than any Western politician's. As someone whose legitimacy rests solely on the brute force he can bring to bear, he can be outmaneuvered at any time, like Deng's predecessor, by others charismatic and skillful enough to organize a temporary alliance of his rivals and enemies against him.

    , @Jack D
    The Chicoms are always kvetching that so and so insults the Chinese people so apparently they do care.
  68. Pretty much what? The tweet is garbage? I’m old enough to remember when globalism was praised precisely because it lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese out of poverty, and American protectionists were demonized — and denounced as selfish — for giving a shit about America and the American worker over others. Imagine that.

    So Steve, instead of supporting this frontlashing against repatriation of manufacturing back to the United States, why don’t we actually just do it and not worry about the feelings of people who never gave a shit about us? I certainly am starting to wonder if this site has studied SJW behaviors so much it is starting to mimic them.

    Seriously, it’s like the asinine Chinese reactions to ‘Free Hong Kong’ tweets are forgotten. Or their control of the WHO. Or countless other examples.

    American behavior during disengagement won’t be the issue. So what is the real reason for this concern trolling?

    • Agree: BenKenobi
    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    And what about the opioid epidemic? I thought all that fentanyl was dumped on America by the Chinese and we were supposed to blame them for all our overdoses.

    I admit that I can't keep track of who the bad guys are from month to month. Are the Russians good now? When they were bad I don't recall anyone worrying about anti-Russian insults or racism.

    Don't get me started on MAGA hat-wearers. It always seems to be open season on them.
    , @Whitey Whiteman III
    China Flu is turning the frogs gay.
  69. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government
     
    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc. However, that was a pipe dream. The CPC is not going to willingly relinquish power and Xi has, on the Putin model, decided to rule for life. Millions are imprisoned. Civil liberties in HK are disappearing. There's no reason why we can't disengage from China AND call out their government. In fact, disengagement may be a necessary prerequisite to our ability to properly call them out for their crimes (and vice versa). They are two sides of the same coin.

    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc. However, that was a pipe dream.

    Why do you wish for China to become a less “dictatorial” system?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Maybe I'm naive but I always thought that democratic values were self-evident. I am rather shocked by the hostility I see here to the thought that the Chinese might someday, God forbid, choose their own rulers. In fact, I wonder whether the hostility is not to the thought of "Chinese democracy" but toward democracy in general. I think this hostility goes well beyond "It's none of our business" to "I secretly admire dictators."

    I'm with Churchill on this - democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others. Democracy seems capable of producing leaders who are just as shitty as ones who take power without benefit of elections. The difference is that in a democracy you can get rid of the guy after a few years where under dictatorship you are stuck with him until he dies. And the longer he sticks around, the more corrupt and autocratic the system becomes. China, until recently, didn't have a democracy (to say the least) but at least they (in the post-Mao era) had a system of planned succession, but with Xi they are back to the dictator for life scheme. No matter how much the dictator makes the trains run on time, dictatorship is still a shitty system.
  70. @Hail
    OT:

    A team of four experts (Patrik Hermansson, David Lawrence, Joe Mulhall, Simon Murdoch) has recently published a new book under the following title:

    The International Alt-Right: Fascism in the 21st Century
     
    https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/the-international-alt-right-2020-patrik-hermansson-david-lawrence-joe-mulhall-simon-murdoch.jpg

    I haven't seen it mentioned here, and the search function turns up nothing, so I wanted to bring this to your attention. According to the index, Steve Sailer is mentioned on pages 39, 41, 55, and 89, for a total of four pages of 268 in the book.

    The preview-mode at Google Books gives the following Sailer snippets:

    Sailer is a prolific writer whose work on race has, while dismissed by critics "as pseudoscience at best and eugenics at worst," become extremely popular among sections of the alt-right. Sailer graduated from Rice University in 1980 and began writing for National Review in the 1990s, a stint that ended when he was pushed out in 1997. He now writes for several sites associated with the alt-right such as VDARE, Taki's Magazine, and the Unz Review.
     

    However, while HBD is popular within the alt-right, Sailer has not wholeheartedly embraced the term itself, though he has written favourably of the movement in Taki's Magazine. While Sailer, like other HBD advocates, would likely reject ...
     

    Sailer, the father of HBD, is less guarded about its explicitly political ramifications, once stating in an interview with the H.L. Mencken Club that HBD is "both a field of study and a political movement."
     
    Positive blurbs for the book are trumpeted from: Jon Cruddas, British MP; Heidi Beirich, US far-left activist (see also an an investigation into the origins of Dr. Heidi Beirich's radicalization); Dan Stone, UK academic; Mike Wendling, "author of Alt-Right: From 4-chan to the White House;" Christa Hodapp, US academic.

    Here is the contents page:

    https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/the-international-alt-right-2020-contents-page.png

    On Google Books and scan through the Index to see what people/topics they are mainly discussing, which is pretty funny.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-latest-brouhaha-andrew-sabisky/#comment-3750976

    [MORE]

  71. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc.
     
    I've seen similar comments on Twitter, but why should we care what kind of government China has? If it were as democratic as Taiwan or South Korea, it would still be bad for us to have outsourced so much of our manufacturing to China.

    I’ve seen similar comments on Twitter, but why should we care what kind of government China has? If it were as democratic as Taiwan or South Korea, it would still be bad for us to have outsourced so much of our manufacturing to China.

    This.

  72. @Hypnotoad666
    I think he's confusing the Chicoms with Yale undergraduates.

    The commies aren't totalitarian masters of the world's most populous country because they get their feelings hurt easily. (See e.g., The Long March and the Korean War.)

    And besides, they did kinda infect us with the plague. So we sorta halve to say, like, "that's not cool bro." Or something.

    All we have to do is renounce their holdings of treasury debt–call it a down payment on what they owe us for this continuing nightmare. They’ll get the message. Maybe they’ll cut us off, too! Good. Maybe they’ll even repatriate all the Chinese people in the USA! Heck, I can dream, can’t I?

  73. @Hypnotoad666
    I'm still pissed about John Birch!

    We live in a society.

    ~ John Birch ~

    If you stay here much longer you’ll all be slitty-eyed.

    ~ Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh ~

    What does that mean? Huh? ‘China is here.’ I don’t even know what the hell that means.

    ~ Jack Burton ~

    [MORE]

  74. Anonymous[205] • Disclaimer says:

    Of course, the big attraction of globalization to the Economist elites was that it screwed down the ‘white working class’ like nothing on earth ever has done, namely the wholesale offshoring to China of virtually the entirety of western manufacturing capacity.

    It is easy to forget, or not acknowledge, that The Economist is driven not only by profiteering at any cost but by *unquenchable, rabid and deep seated hatred* of the white, male, working class. Basically they want white men to die – witness the current opioid epidemic – so that a ‘new’ pleasant smiling brown servile class can be brought in to tend to their needs in their gated community mansions, if you don’t believe me read your Bryan Caplan – that c*nt doesn’t even try to hide it.

    Notice too how The Economist celebrates and applauds the offshoring of rust belt manufacturing to China in the name of ‘efficiency’ – the workers dare to ask for pay – but rages and rants against attempts to stymy the truly inefficient deluge of mestizos into the USA, when fruits and vegetables could be had on world markets at cheaper prices.

  75. Anonymous[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government
     
    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc. However, that was a pipe dream. The CPC is not going to willingly relinquish power and Xi has, on the Putin model, decided to rule for life. Millions are imprisoned. Civil liberties in HK are disappearing. There's no reason why we can't disengage from China AND call out their government. In fact, disengagement may be a necessary prerequisite to our ability to properly call them out for their crimes (and vice versa). They are two sides of the same coin.

    Gorbachev – and all the shit that flowed from him – is the strongest moral warning against the CCP being dumb enough to dance to any tune the western shyster pied piper plays ….

    Just reflect on that for a moment.

    The Chinese are not stupid.

    • Agree: Anonymous (n), Ron Unz
  76. @utu
    "... needless insults of [...] government and people." - Not needless. Liberal democracy can't do w/o insults. This is the only way people can be mobilized when the rulers decide to go to war. In traditional authoritarian states people are told what to do and they do it. Hate is not necessary. In WWI UK people had to hate the Hun and Americans were propagandized to hate the Jap during WWII. Japanese and German propaganda did not have a comparable level of vitriol and hate towards the people they fought. Portraying yourself as a righteous victim might be a part of it. German and Japanese cultures were based on honor and duty which had no room for victimhood.

    Based on the German treatment of Eastern European POWs, and Japanese treatment of, well, everyone, they didn’t need to hate. Their very deeply ingrained (and very mistaken, in the case of warfighting) sense of superiority, not honor, led them to treat most captives with horrific contempt. Merely having an authoritarian government does not create, nor excuse, atrocities. And I do think authoritarian states like the Soviet Union had plenty of vicious anti-Nazi propaganda, as they well should have.

    • Replies: @utu
    Germans treated Polish POWs no different than French or British POWs. Honor and sense superiority are two separate categories and not mutually exclusive. But I was not talking how soldiers behaved during the war or how POWs were treated because it depended on many factors not just cultural or ideological. I was talking about propaganda and what it took to mobilize people. When Soviet Union attacked Finland it was not necessary to whip up propaganda to vilify Fins and dehumanize them on posters and cartoons as monkeys or some other monsters so Soviet soldiers would be willing to go to war. No, Soviet soldiers were motivated with vodka and barrier troops that were following them and shooting those who did not move forward fast enough.
  77. @Jack D

    without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government
     
    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc. However, that was a pipe dream. The CPC is not going to willingly relinquish power and Xi has, on the Putin model, decided to rule for life. Millions are imprisoned. Civil liberties in HK are disappearing. There's no reason why we can't disengage from China AND call out their government. In fact, disengagement may be a necessary prerequisite to our ability to properly call them out for their crimes (and vice versa). They are two sides of the same coin.

    I’ve lived in China for several years, and my overall impression is that aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll) the Chinese people quite like their government just the way it is, and rightly so. While the “democratic” regimes of the Western world slowly but surely destroy their own people via immigration, neoliberal trade policy, and cultural degeneracy, the Chinese government takes the diametrically opposite approach on these existential issues: little to no immigration, mercantilist trade policy that emphasizes national prosperity over profit seeking by corporate elites, and emphasis on traditional values. To the extent that I as an American would object to the CCP it’s that they are doing a great job making China into the world’s next great dominant power, and I’m not Chinese.

    Jack D yearns for “Chinese democracy” because he believes it would turn out very similar to post-communist Russia pre-Putin. To be fair, that’s certainly a legitimate perspective for Jack D and others of his tribe who would benefit from such an outcomoe. For those of us who are not part of that power axis, however, as well as for the Chinese people themselves, the CCP is doing just fine.

    • Agree: utu, Ron Unz, Tor597, Miro23
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Isn't "Chinese Democracy" some kind of pejorative? Or am I just confused because that was the name of Axl Rose of Guns & Roses solo album that took him like 20 years to finish?
    , @nebulafox
    >I’ve lived in China for several years, and my overall impression is that aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll) the Chinese people quite like their government just the way it is, and rightly so.

    Agreed. If I were Chinese, I'd be perfectly fine with the status quo. I don't subscribe to the ridiculous view that the CPC consists of far-sighted, Oriental thinkers looking 100 years down the road, but there's no question there's longer-term thinking that has long since disappeared in Washington. Things aren't perfect, far from it, but they are astronomically better than they were 20 years ago, let alone 40. There's an air of optimism and "can do" in China that, sadly speaking, has disappeared from the US, and I suspect the pandemic isn't going to permanently dent that.

    How other countries govern themselves is their own business: the concern of the American government should be their interaction with the USA and our interests, nothing more, nothing less. I concede that not everybody here is an amoral realist asshole like myself, but speaking pragmatically, the US populace should really, really focus on the corruption and venality of their own government given the circumstances: and view MSM attempts to distract us for what they are. We can't control what Xi Jinping does. We can control what happens to people like Senator Burr.

    , @Peter Akuleyev
    my overall impression is that aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll)

    I would take you more seriously if you weren't spouting CCP propaganda about "foreign payroll"

    Yes, most ordinary Chinese are pretty thrilled with the dramatic improvements in China over the past 30 years, and that has bought the Communists some good will. Under the surface though a lot of Chinese are disgusted with the corruption and constant interference in people's daily lives. A lof of Chinese see the Communists as heavy handed Beijing imperialists forcing their dialect on everyone (there is a lot of regional pride and identity in China), and the older generation still remembers the Cultural Revolution. A lot of people still detest the Communist Party, and are well aware that China's accomplishments have mostly been despite the Party's interference. I hear a lot of grumbling from entrepreneurs especially - if you are ambitious, China is a very stifling environment to grow a business, and the stress from finding the line between bribing enough officials to stay competitive and going too far and getting a bullet in your head on corruption charges is significant. There is a reason why wealthy Chinese almost all want to leave.

    But it is also true that very few Chinese want China to resemble the US. Chinese don't want US style democracy - they want a Lee Kwan Yew - an enlightened patriotic leader who truly has his country's interests at heart. Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan demonstrate every day that there are alternative and better paths in East Asia, Western liberal democracy is not the only option.
    , @Brás Cubas

    aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll) the Chinese people quite like their government just the way it is,
     
    Well, if that is true, I see no problem in testing that assumption by instituting the universal vote. The CCP would come out victorious every time.
  78. @Daniel H
    Short term, US business has no good alternative. Until production capacity is domiciled or significantly difused to other Asian tigers, they got us by the ‘nads…and that’s too bad.

    What do you mean "Until...". High technology production will never be repatriated/domiciled because we can't do it anymore, not on the industrial scale that will support a consumer based economy. We are second rate. Just get used to it.

    Ah, if only every American believing America was doomed, whether second rate, or third world, would leave, with an immigrant or two tucked under their arm. Decay with less people, less traffic, lower housing costs, more solidarity…

  79. @Daniel H
    There’s no reason why we can’t disengage from China AND call out their government.

    You make me laugh. A Gweilo calling out a Chinaman. Do you think the Chinaman gives a flip what you or 300 million other Gweilos think about him? Not for a second. China is on a 100 year plan, while we can't keep our heads straight through a four year election cycle. Ha, ha, ha.

    China is on a 100 year plan

    Actually, Xi Jinping is on the stay-ahead-of-his-rivals-one-more-day plan. The following is a list of the better-known Chinese coup attempts in the last 50 years:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_Biao#%22Lin_Biao_incident%22_and_death
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hua_Guofeng#Ousting_and_death
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Xilai

    One succeeded. Deng Xiaoping went on to reverse many of Mao’s policies in the economic sphere. It’s almost certain that power struggles are going on below the surface today, especially among the people turfed by Xi Jinping during his ascent to power, but possibly even involving his inner circle. Note that the commanding general who served the last de jure monarch, the Last Emperor (whose reign was chronicled in Bertolucci’s Oscar-winning film), forced his abdication, and attempted to make himself emperor.

    In the last century, with one notorious exception, Western politicians have been docile eunuchs who serve their turn. In contrast, Chinese politicians are much more similar to the Companions who fought alongside Alexander – they seek power in their own right by hook or by crook, via palace coup or mutiny in ways that would be recognizable to their Chinese forebears thousands of years ago. That’s why Xi Jinping’s horizons are much shorter term than any Western politician’s. As someone whose legitimacy rests solely on the brute force he can bring to bear, he can be outmaneuvered at any time, like Deng’s predecessor, by others charismatic and skillful enough to organize a temporary alliance of his rivals and enemies against him.

    • Replies: @Kim
    Ah, intelligence! What size hat do you wear? I'd bet you eat a lot of fish.
  80. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    "we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed"

    You lack the proper perspective: from the point of view of TPTB, "their own people"'are not at all hungry, not at all unemployed. Their own people are doing just dandy, and we are definitely not "their" people. And if we are hungry and unemployed, they don't care, and they think it's funny, and they're looking for ways to make it worse.

  81. @Anonymous (n)
    I've lived in China for several years, and my overall impression is that aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll) the Chinese people quite like their government just the way it is, and rightly so. While the "democratic" regimes of the Western world slowly but surely destroy their own people via immigration, neoliberal trade policy, and cultural degeneracy, the Chinese government takes the diametrically opposite approach on these existential issues: little to no immigration, mercantilist trade policy that emphasizes national prosperity over profit seeking by corporate elites, and emphasis on traditional values. To the extent that I as an American would object to the CCP it's that they are doing a great job making China into the world's next great dominant power, and I'm not Chinese.

    Jack D yearns for "Chinese democracy" because he believes it would turn out very similar to post-communist Russia pre-Putin. To be fair, that's certainly a legitimate perspective for Jack D and others of his tribe who would benefit from such an outcomoe. For those of us who are not part of that power axis, however, as well as for the Chinese people themselves, the CCP is doing just fine.

    Isn’t “Chinese Democracy” some kind of pejorative? Or am I just confused because that was the name of Axl Rose of Guns & Roses solo album that took him like 20 years to finish?

    • Replies: @BenKenobi

    Axl Rose of Guns & Roses solo album that took him like 20 years to finish?
     
    “Better” was a decent single.
    , @J.Ross
    Chinese I have read or spoken to actually sincerely hate democracy and regard it as an unjustifiably corrupt and nonfunctional system. It really is fundamentally anathemic to their nature.
  82. @Anonymous

    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/493490-foreign-powers-test-us-defenses-amid-coronavirus-pandemic

    The Hill
    April 19, 2020

    Foreign powers test US defenses amid coronavirus pandemic

    BY ELLEN MITCHELL

    U.S. adversaries are probing America's defenses as the world is preoccupied with the fight against the coronavirus pandemic.

    In the past two weeks, Russia, China, Iran and North Korea have all moved to test Washington in the sea, in the air and on land as U.S. forces have become more restricted in movement amid concerns over the spread of COVID-19.
     

    There you go China, the neocons and neolibs now officially consider you an enemy. But you already knew this.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/11/03/china-every-day-is-kristallnacht/?arc404=true

    The Washington Post

    In China, every day is Kristallnacht

    By Fred Hiatt
    Editorial page editor
    November 3, 2019

    In China, every day is Kristallnacht.

    Eighty-one years ago this week, in what is also known as the “Night of Broken Glass,” hundreds of synagogues and Jewish cemeteries in Nazi Germany were damaged or destroyed, along with thousands of Jewish-owned businesses. It was in a sense the starting gun for the genocide that culminated in the extermination camps of Auschwitz, Sobibor and Treblinka.
     

    See China, because you’re friendly to Iran and Russia and unfriendly to international finance, why, you’re just like Hitler!

    I expect little from the CPC when it comes to things like cultural vandalism, but the Nazi comparison is deeply stupid and inaccurate. As is common in Western media, the Washington Post completely ignores the reality that China leaves the Hui Muslims alone for the most part, and unlike the Jews in Nazi Germany, the Uighurs do get involved in violent, Islamic inspired separatist movements that are not a figment of Beijing’s imagination.

    What’s going on in Xinjiang is horrible enough as it is. The MSM exaggerating it into something it is not is counterproductive and unhelpful.

  83. @Anonymous
    China was already beginning to disengage from the US. That's what the whole Belt & Road and Made in China 2025 projects were about.

    The goal of the Belt & Road project is to develop energy and trading networks and markets across Eurasia that would reduce dependence on trade with the US and on US Navy and finance dominated sea based trade. The Made in China 2025 project aims to move Chinese production up the value chain so that it is less dependent on higher end US production.

    If it was simply about "disengagement", both US elites and ordinary American citizens would have welcomed these projects as opportunities for greater independence and an inward turn towards domestic, internal development. But they haven't, because disengagement is not the issue. Relative power is. Which is why a major war is likely in the near future. The US has a 10 - 15 year window right now to initiate a war with China before the relative power balance shifts too much.

    Which is why a major war is likely in the near future

    Define major.

    The Corona Mass Hysteria Pandemic, shoved on us from above, has already done more damage than any realistic war scenario I can imagine (non-nuclear).

  84. @Anonymous (n)
    I've lived in China for several years, and my overall impression is that aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll) the Chinese people quite like their government just the way it is, and rightly so. While the "democratic" regimes of the Western world slowly but surely destroy their own people via immigration, neoliberal trade policy, and cultural degeneracy, the Chinese government takes the diametrically opposite approach on these existential issues: little to no immigration, mercantilist trade policy that emphasizes national prosperity over profit seeking by corporate elites, and emphasis on traditional values. To the extent that I as an American would object to the CCP it's that they are doing a great job making China into the world's next great dominant power, and I'm not Chinese.

    Jack D yearns for "Chinese democracy" because he believes it would turn out very similar to post-communist Russia pre-Putin. To be fair, that's certainly a legitimate perspective for Jack D and others of his tribe who would benefit from such an outcomoe. For those of us who are not part of that power axis, however, as well as for the Chinese people themselves, the CCP is doing just fine.

    >I’ve lived in China for several years, and my overall impression is that aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll) the Chinese people quite like their government just the way it is, and rightly so.

    Agreed. If I were Chinese, I’d be perfectly fine with the status quo. I don’t subscribe to the ridiculous view that the CPC consists of far-sighted, Oriental thinkers looking 100 years down the road, but there’s no question there’s longer-term thinking that has long since disappeared in Washington. Things aren’t perfect, far from it, but they are astronomically better than they were 20 years ago, let alone 40. There’s an air of optimism and “can do” in China that, sadly speaking, has disappeared from the US, and I suspect the pandemic isn’t going to permanently dent that.

    How other countries govern themselves is their own business: the concern of the American government should be their interaction with the USA and our interests, nothing more, nothing less. I concede that not everybody here is an amoral realist asshole like myself, but speaking pragmatically, the US populace should really, really focus on the corruption and venality of their own government given the circumstances: and view MSM attempts to distract us for what they are. We can’t control what Xi Jinping does. We can control what happens to people like Senator Burr.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Well now, America would be much better off removing all students from China from American universities -- their large presence an excellent example of American corruption -- and that certainly is an American decision.

    The idea that the Chinese government or Chinese people would accept this decision without complaint -- it being the internal governing decision of another country -- is pretty ludicrous, and not born out by recent Chinese behavior. So make sure to save lots of your amoral realist preaching for the Chinese. They need it.

    We certainly can't control what Xi Jinping does. Nor should we be concerned with the feelings of either him, or the Chinese people, when American interests are at stake. Because it seems the country with the most 'can do' attitude is precisely the one without many citizens tweeting nauseating crap about the feelings of the leadership or people of an industrial rival.
  85. @SafeNow
    Imports from China are of poor quality (except for this plague). But I am pessimistic that the U.S. can ever again produce high-quality products (or services). My broken-record comment: proficient/conscientious/fastidious has unraveled into “get it basically okay.” Thus, we get the basically-okay Boeing Max, and 250,000 annual deaths from medical negligence, and so on. Examples are commonplace in government, institutions, and daily life. If this is somehow reversible, I would like to know what the plan is. Signing-off from Southern California, where the dive boat’s roving night watchman sleeps.

    Since it looks like the gyms here might be closed for another month or more, I bought a used Soloflex on Sunday I found on Craig’s List. The guy I bought it from was the second owner, and he’d had it since 1990. Solid iron and wood. Made in America:

    Because he refused to utilize the kind of “planned obsolescence” common in consumer goods, which allows for products to fail after a finite period of time, people who bought one Soloflex had no cause to ever buy another.

  86. @Hail
    OT:

    A team of four experts (Patrik Hermansson, David Lawrence, Joe Mulhall, Simon Murdoch) has recently published a new book under the following title:

    The International Alt-Right: Fascism in the 21st Century
     
    https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/the-international-alt-right-2020-patrik-hermansson-david-lawrence-joe-mulhall-simon-murdoch.jpg

    I haven't seen it mentioned here, and the search function turns up nothing, so I wanted to bring this to your attention. According to the index, Steve Sailer is mentioned on pages 39, 41, 55, and 89, for a total of four pages of 268 in the book.

    The preview-mode at Google Books gives the following Sailer snippets:

    Sailer is a prolific writer whose work on race has, while dismissed by critics "as pseudoscience at best and eugenics at worst," become extremely popular among sections of the alt-right. Sailer graduated from Rice University in 1980 and began writing for National Review in the 1990s, a stint that ended when he was pushed out in 1997. He now writes for several sites associated with the alt-right such as VDARE, Taki's Magazine, and the Unz Review.
     

    However, while HBD is popular within the alt-right, Sailer has not wholeheartedly embraced the term itself, though he has written favourably of the movement in Taki's Magazine. While Sailer, like other HBD advocates, would likely reject ...
     

    Sailer, the father of HBD, is less guarded about its explicitly political ramifications, once stating in an interview with the H.L. Mencken Club that HBD is "both a field of study and a political movement."
     
    Positive blurbs for the book are trumpeted from: Jon Cruddas, British MP; Heidi Beirich, US far-left activist (see also an an investigation into the origins of Dr. Heidi Beirich's radicalization); Dan Stone, UK academic; Mike Wendling, "author of Alt-Right: From 4-chan to the White House;" Christa Hodapp, US academic.

    Here is the contents page:

    https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/the-international-alt-right-2020-contents-page.png

    On Google Books and scan through the Index to see what people/topics they are mainly discussing, which is pretty funny.

    Ask these knuckleheads what a “fascist” is. None of these psuedo-intellectuals can define what a “fascist” is. It literally means whatever the red diaper babies say it means.

    Both “Fascism” and “Marxism” are neo-Hegelian in nature. E.g., seizing the means of production for the good of the nation, or corporatism. Benito seized Olivetti in WWII the same way that Stalin seized agrarian farming of wheat or Mao seized the rice paddies through central economic planning. I’ve been reading Steve since 2001, and I’ve never heard a “fascist” call to arms in nearly 20 years.

    Real fascism requires seizing those means to bring the nation out of its backwards nature. But there is a difference: China doesn’t make Ferraris or Lamborghinis. They can’t even put a monkey into orbit.

    These pinkos also equate Hitler as a “fascist.” Germany in 1941 had the same cradle-to-grave welfare programs as modern day Denmark, Netherlands or Sweden. Are they going to equate nationalism socialism of these countries as being fascistict? Methinks not.

    Let’s take a look at another element of”Fascism” with a capital “F.” You know the kind of “Fascism” espoused by Giovanni Gentile, the philosopher of Fascism. Masculine protest is not a talking point with Steve, e.g. Marcus Garvey marching down the streets of Harlem in full shoulder board uniform with a plumed hat expressing masculine protest. Il Duce did the same thing, to the benefit of all his Raza.

    These people are so freaking stupid they don’t even stand up to my sophomoric armchair political analysis.

    Steve: you know you are doing something right when the enemy of a free people call you a fascist (whatever that means). Keep up the good work, comrade.

    • Thanks: Hail
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    The lefty pundit Matt Stoller calls the CCP fascist.
    , @Hail
    I haven't read the book so IDK if they are calling Steve Sailer a 'fascist' directly.

    Maybe Patrick Hermansson or David Lawrence or Joe Mulhall or Simon Murdoch, if one or more of these top twentyfirst-century-fascism-experts is reading, can tell us. Did they discover a smoking-gun that Steve Sailer was a fascist all along?
  87. anon[157] • Disclaimer says:

    Mostly I agree with stuff. But I am ok with about 1/2 of the labor arbitrage globalism. Remember pre Japanese cars? And Norma Rae? Was the answer the union label? We have been transferring what was the 18th Century British high tech industry of textiles, after first stealing it from Britain, to progressively lower wage areas. Starting with the Carolinas. And eventually the cheapest labor in the world. Meanwhile, where it made sense, we kept carpeting:

    M

    ore than 85% of the U.S. carpet and rug market is produced by mills located within a 65-mile radius of Dalton, for an estimated $8 billion in business activity. Georgia supplies more than 45% of the world’s carpet and rugs

    Mostly because of the weight. Same with bricks and drywall. Capital lowered the labor content of the products such that the landed cost of domestic manufacture was competitive. The point being, it is desirable for us to export airplanes and import labor intensive stuff. Up to a point. And also one of the points is that if you allow imports of cheap stuff, you shouldn’t need to import low wage labor. The whole thing made sense up to a point, but got way out of hand.

    You would hate reversing it all. It’s really complicated. I’ll leave the hard stuff to the big brains here. But keep Boeing and lose the Norma Rae jobs.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Offshoring labor intensive work makes a lot of sense but it was overdone and left us vulnerable. We can't even produce PPE in the midst of an epidemic because we've lost much of our manufacturing capability. And labor intensive is another way of saying "creates a lot of jobs". Is it really an improvement that the Norma Rae's of 2020 don't have jobs at the mill anymore, if the alternative is that they live on disability and take opiates? It would be nice if we all could do high value work like writing software for Boeing (oops) but some people just don't have the intellect so it's either tend to the loom or no job at all.

    Unions were a big part of the problem because they created an "us vs. them" attitude. Watch the "American Factory" documentary, where they contrast the attitude of the workers in China vs. the US. The Chinese workers are psychologically invested in their employer and want to see it succeed - they know that its success is their success. The American workers whine and kvetch like surly teenagers and view their employer as their enemy. Little wonder that the suits were glad to close their US factories, especially the unionized ones.
  88. @Daemon
    What are you gonna do? Not buy from them?

    HAHAHAHAHAHA.

    What a joke.

    What a joke.

    Oh look, Sick Man of Asia checking in:

  89. @Polynikes
    Trump was using that language in 2016. Then he followed through with it more than any president in the last two decades. Now you want to go farther but not allow anyone to run on that fact? If anything that has Biden written all over it.

    What a weird comment.

    Trump threw up some fairly meaningless tariffs. Much like the “Wall”, a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing, and not changing the facts on the ground. Really disengaging from China would require cooperation from American business leaders and insisting America’s business partners disengage as well. That requires leadership, persuasion skills, long term planning and perseverance, none of which are particular strengths of Mr. Trump.

    • Disagree: Manfred Arcane
    • Replies: @Che Blutarsky
    Thank you for posting, I was really missing out lately on your worthless drivel.
  90. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Based on the German treatment of Eastern European POWs, and Japanese treatment of, well, everyone, they didn't need to hate. Their very deeply ingrained (and very mistaken, in the case of warfighting) sense of superiority, not honor, led them to treat most captives with horrific contempt. Merely having an authoritarian government does not create, nor excuse, atrocities. And I do think authoritarian states like the Soviet Union had plenty of vicious anti-Nazi propaganda, as they well should have.

    Germans treated Polish POWs no different than French or British POWs. Honor and sense superiority are two separate categories and not mutually exclusive. But I was not talking how soldiers behaved during the war or how POWs were treated because it depended on many factors not just cultural or ideological. I was talking about propaganda and what it took to mobilize people. When Soviet Union attacked Finland it was not necessary to whip up propaganda to vilify Fins and dehumanize them on posters and cartoons as monkeys or some other monsters so Soviet soldiers would be willing to go to war. No, Soviet soldiers were motivated with vodka and barrier troops that were following them and shooting those who did not move forward fast enough.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    Germans treated Polish POWs no different than French or British POWs.
     
    What about Soviet POW's? Millions died, most by starvation and disease.

    You are viewing the Germans and the Japanese thru rose colored glasses. They were both plenty racist by any definition.

    https://imgc.allpostersimages.com/img/print/u-g-PPTLDM0.jpg?w=900&h=900&p=0

    Caption: Scourge of Humanity

    This is something the German propaganda dept. printed up for use in Poland. They also printed them in Ukrainian. When I visited Lviv, I looked up old photos of the central square where the lovely Austrian built opera house stands. In the background of the photo you could see a kiosk with posters on it and one of the posters was this one. After the war, the Russians put a big Lenin statue there. Today the original fountain has been restored and no sign of Lenin. Lemberg (Lviv) had a tough 20th century.

  91. Lol old as fuck boomers got the societal shutdown they wanted and now they are ready to give up on America . I genuinely didn’t think my hatred for boomers could get any more incandescent. I’m bullish on the US simply for the fact that Y2Flu is the death kneel to boomer influence in the US. You think any red state millennial is ever going to lift a finger to help a boomer after this- Y2Flu will be way less deadly than the cold in Texas. It’s not even close.

    I mean break down Steve’s position for a second- he’s for being bitchy to ugly female writers, taunting dumb blacks and sleepy Mexicans but when it comes to the Jews he’s downright worshipful and thinks we shouldn’t be mean to the Chinese. Steve just worships power politics. He’s an dollar store Henry Kissinger.

    • Replies: @Amerimutt Golems


    I mean break down Steve’s position for a second- he’s for being bitchy to ugly female writers, taunting dumb blacks and sleepy Mexicans but when it comes to the Jews he’s downright worshipful and thinks we shouldn’t be mean to the Chinese. Steve just worships power politics. He’s an dollar store Henry Kissinger.

     

    According to some gatekeepers like RationalWiki both Sailer and Derb are anti-Semites, so the groveling is pointless.
  92. @Anonymous (n)
    I've lived in China for several years, and my overall impression is that aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll) the Chinese people quite like their government just the way it is, and rightly so. While the "democratic" regimes of the Western world slowly but surely destroy their own people via immigration, neoliberal trade policy, and cultural degeneracy, the Chinese government takes the diametrically opposite approach on these existential issues: little to no immigration, mercantilist trade policy that emphasizes national prosperity over profit seeking by corporate elites, and emphasis on traditional values. To the extent that I as an American would object to the CCP it's that they are doing a great job making China into the world's next great dominant power, and I'm not Chinese.

    Jack D yearns for "Chinese democracy" because he believes it would turn out very similar to post-communist Russia pre-Putin. To be fair, that's certainly a legitimate perspective for Jack D and others of his tribe who would benefit from such an outcomoe. For those of us who are not part of that power axis, however, as well as for the Chinese people themselves, the CCP is doing just fine.

    my overall impression is that aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll)

    I would take you more seriously if you weren’t spouting CCP propaganda about “foreign payroll”

    Yes, most ordinary Chinese are pretty thrilled with the dramatic improvements in China over the past 30 years, and that has bought the Communists some good will. Under the surface though a lot of Chinese are disgusted with the corruption and constant interference in people’s daily lives. A lof of Chinese see the Communists as heavy handed Beijing imperialists forcing their dialect on everyone (there is a lot of regional pride and identity in China), and the older generation still remembers the Cultural Revolution. A lot of people still detest the Communist Party, and are well aware that China’s accomplishments have mostly been despite the Party’s interference. I hear a lot of grumbling from entrepreneurs especially – if you are ambitious, China is a very stifling environment to grow a business, and the stress from finding the line between bribing enough officials to stay competitive and going too far and getting a bullet in your head on corruption charges is significant. There is a reason why wealthy Chinese almost all want to leave.

    But it is also true that very few Chinese want China to resemble the US. Chinese don’t want US style democracy – they want a Lee Kwan Yew – an enlightened patriotic leader who truly has his country’s interests at heart. Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan demonstrate every day that there are alternative and better paths in East Asia, Western liberal democracy is not the only option.

    • Replies: @Odin

    Yes, most ordinary Chinese are pretty thrilled with the dramatic improvements in China over the past 30 years, and that has bought the Communists some good will.
     
    Because the Communists have made things so much better than they were 30 years ago under the ... umm ... Communists.
    , @nebulafox
    One reason the CCP is pouring top dollar into creating tech hubs in backwaters like Guiyang (high performance computing related stuff) is to alleviate competition in places like Beijing while incentivizing the relative lack of bureaucracy: they worry less about security threats in the boonies, I reckon.

    >Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan demonstrate every day that there are alternative and better paths in East Asia, Western liberal democracy is not the only option.

    Singapore is what they want. Taiwan is a high-functioning liberal democracy (and a pretty raucous one, too), thus pretty much proving bunk the notion that Chinese culture and democracy are inherently incompatible. Hong Kong is not a democracy, and never has been, contrary to what the American media and State Department would have you believe. But is an extremely liberal place with a very weak central government. The local civic culture takes its freedoms very, very seriously, as the ChiComs know well. So, those two aren't suitable.

    Singapore, on the other hand, is top-down, centralized, and pseudo-authoritarian, so it shouldn't be surprising that this is what Beijing wants to gravitate to over time. But they've got a long way to go until they get there. Singapore's no democracy, but it also isn't remotely Chinese levels of authoritarian by any stretch, either.

  93. @Daniel H
    There’s no reason why we can’t disengage from China AND call out their government.

    You make me laugh. A Gweilo calling out a Chinaman. Do you think the Chinaman gives a flip what you or 300 million other Gweilos think about him? Not for a second. China is on a 100 year plan, while we can't keep our heads straight through a four year election cycle. Ha, ha, ha.

    The Chicoms are always kvetching that so and so insults the Chinese people so apparently they do care.

    • Replies: @Meretricious
    Strategy. Just as when they complain that U.S. policies they don't like are "racist". Think they really care about that? Or have they just discovered that it's an effective cudgel.
  94. @nebulafox
    >I’ve lived in China for several years, and my overall impression is that aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll) the Chinese people quite like their government just the way it is, and rightly so.

    Agreed. If I were Chinese, I'd be perfectly fine with the status quo. I don't subscribe to the ridiculous view that the CPC consists of far-sighted, Oriental thinkers looking 100 years down the road, but there's no question there's longer-term thinking that has long since disappeared in Washington. Things aren't perfect, far from it, but they are astronomically better than they were 20 years ago, let alone 40. There's an air of optimism and "can do" in China that, sadly speaking, has disappeared from the US, and I suspect the pandemic isn't going to permanently dent that.

    How other countries govern themselves is their own business: the concern of the American government should be their interaction with the USA and our interests, nothing more, nothing less. I concede that not everybody here is an amoral realist asshole like myself, but speaking pragmatically, the US populace should really, really focus on the corruption and venality of their own government given the circumstances: and view MSM attempts to distract us for what they are. We can't control what Xi Jinping does. We can control what happens to people like Senator Burr.

    Well now, America would be much better off removing all students from China from American universities — their large presence an excellent example of American corruption — and that certainly is an American decision.

    The idea that the Chinese government or Chinese people would accept this decision without complaint — it being the internal governing decision of another country — is pretty ludicrous, and not born out by recent Chinese behavior. So make sure to save lots of your amoral realist preaching for the Chinese. They need it.

    We certainly can’t control what Xi Jinping does. Nor should we be concerned with the feelings of either him, or the Chinese people, when American interests are at stake. Because it seems the country with the most ‘can do’ attitude is precisely the one without many citizens tweeting nauseating crap about the feelings of the leadership or people of an industrial rival.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    >The idea that the Chinese government or Chinese people would accept this decision without complaint — it being the internal governing decision of another country — is pretty ludicrous, and not born out by recent Chinese behavior.

    Oh, they'd learn to accept it with a different kind of American leader. You think I'd give a damn if Beijing's feelings are hurt by some American college students? Especially needed are a few sharp, public examples made of their little toadies in our private, media, and academic sectors, now that PRC influence has gone so far: collaborators need to understand that there's a price for collaborating that isn't worth paying. Make an example of a few: the rest will quickly bow out. Once that happens, native American helpers will dry up, meaning that the PRC will have to rely more exclusively on their own nationals to secure their interests in the USA: which would far easier to deal with under said proper nationalist leadership.

    Here's the rub: I genuinely think we'd get along better with the Chinese *long-term* under this kind of leadership rather than the simpering globalists who seem to think that groveling naturally attracts the best in human behavior. We don't need to be friends. We do need to have a functional relationship. Best chance of that is if both sides have a relatively equal, transparent ratio of what will and won't be tolerated, and people generally like strong horses better than weak ones. And there is one thing we share in common that we do not share with the people at Davos: the belief that the Westphalian system is a good thing.

    >Nor should we be concerned with the feelings of either him, or the Chinese people, when American interests are at stake.

    Exactly. But American interests are not at stake concerning Xinjiang: I could not care less what Beijing does there. American interests are currently most threatened by our own elites, above all else. The Chinese wouldn't have attained the influence they have over our media, gotten the property they did from the private sector, etc, without them anyway, so...

  95. @Steve Sailer
    Isn't "Chinese Democracy" some kind of pejorative? Or am I just confused because that was the name of Axl Rose of Guns & Roses solo album that took him like 20 years to finish?

    Axl Rose of Guns & Roses solo album that took him like 20 years to finish?

    “Better” was a decent single.

  96. @Jack D
    The Chicoms are always kvetching that so and so insults the Chinese people so apparently they do care.

    Strategy. Just as when they complain that U.S. policies they don’t like are “racist”. Think they really care about that? Or have they just discovered that it’s an effective cudgel.

  97. @Anonymous

    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc. However, that was a pipe dream.
     
    Why do you wish for China to become a less “dictatorial” system?

    Maybe I’m naive but I always thought that democratic values were self-evident. I am rather shocked by the hostility I see here to the thought that the Chinese might someday, God forbid, choose their own rulers. In fact, I wonder whether the hostility is not to the thought of “Chinese democracy” but toward democracy in general. I think this hostility goes well beyond “It’s none of our business” to “I secretly admire dictators.”

    I’m with Churchill on this – democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others. Democracy seems capable of producing leaders who are just as shitty as ones who take power without benefit of elections. The difference is that in a democracy you can get rid of the guy after a few years where under dictatorship you are stuck with him until he dies. And the longer he sticks around, the more corrupt and autocratic the system becomes. China, until recently, didn’t have a democracy (to say the least) but at least they (in the post-Mao era) had a system of planned succession, but with Xi they are back to the dictator for life scheme. No matter how much the dictator makes the trains run on time, dictatorship is still a shitty system.

    • Replies: @Kim

    No matter how much the dictator makes the trains run on time, dictatorship is still a shitty system.
     
    Do you think that democracy is working out well for the people of the United States (admittedly hard to identify who they are supposed to be nowadays)?

    (Personally, I am a fatalist and have no faith that humans have any control over anything they do, at any scale, so - fortunately - I do not have to form an opinion on this matter. But those who believe they can influence such things, well, go for it, I say, and all the best.)
    , @Anonymous
    Democracy makes sense only when the people elected don't steal everything they can get their hands on and when the demos, the "common people", haven't noticed the they can vote themselves a living and the politicians haven't noticed that they can import foreigners who will reliably vote for them. It also needs a moral population capable of deferring gratification and maintaining "social capital". All these conditions have been increasingly and overtly violated in the US since about 1960 (covertly since Wilson's administration).

    Xi's rule is a definite retrogression, as illustrated by its handling of the COVID-19 affair. China has been in fiancial trouble for several years now. I suspect that rule by committee proved ineffective as the various cities and regions of China captured their representatives and dictated impossible and inflexible demands, but that's just a guess. When that happens, one person rule is the only way to get anything at all done. Consider Trump and the bureaucracy / wealthy donors / Democratic professional politicians / academics with a pet and failed theory. If Trump didn't break metaphorical logjams, they wouldn't be broken. Same with Xi, I'd suspect.

    Critical fact: The world has spent its money on consumption since about 1970, its capital and labor stock has deteriorated, and we're now poor. All of us, even the ones who have fancy status symbols and prestige. We're so poor we can't even manage public health or prepare for emergencies. We can't even build housing for low end labor, which is being squeezed pretty hard.
    Under such a system, all government, democracy or dictatorship, tends to revert to a single decision maker. (And the single decision maker tends to go off his head from overwork.)

    So, no, the form of government (democracy, for example, or any other form) won't save us. It can even kill us. We have to save ourselves.
    , @SFG
    I'd like to see China become a democracy, if they want to be. The example of Taiwan shows that you can have a democracy with Han Chinese, at least at a smaller scale.

    But what are you going to do about it? The Chinese government is very strong, and our own national prestige is in the toilet with this coronavirus thing. And since becoming a democracy usually means bad things happen to the dictators, the CCP leadership has every incentive to see it never happens. Chinese people see their own country becoming strong and controlling the virus while ours loses thousands of people and can't make masks or ventilators in sufficient numbers. What would you think if you were the average Joe Zhang in Beijing?

    It's like Iran--hey, the mullahs suck, I'd love to see a moderate pro-Western government in charge. But after we've been starving them with sanctions, a pro-Western government is unlikely to arise democratically. And I'm not eager to send more American boys to die for some higher goal that's probably just window dressing on what Adelson wants anyway.

    I'm for democracy in America. As for the rest of the world, that's up to each country's citizens.
    , @Anonymous
    An astute observer sooner or later comes to the realization that *all* the power handlers, movers and shakers etc of the western 'democracies' are basically bought - just like $50 hookers - by high finance elitists. Of course, they are so dammed punctilious in covering their tracked and disguising the smell that they hoi polloi simply do not and cannot cotton on.
    "As wise as serpents" as the saying goes.

    A classic object lesson in this were the 'Brexit wars' that raged in the UK from 2016 to 2019.
    A clear Democratic majority of the British electorate wanted out. However, the money power, (The Economist), wanted differently - hence the endless backsliding, deceit, duplicity, repudiation etc etc by MPs who have 'honourable(!)' in there official titles.

    Bottom Line:
    If you want to know what the money-power is thinking - and what their paid political whores will do immediately later - read The Economist, their in house journal.
    , @J.Ross
    Depends where you're country's at -- the reason you have heard of Korea, let alone rely on and compete with their top-level goods, is because of decades of the best kind of nationally-interested dictatorship. The State is always loved in an emergency and from-the-ashes national development is a kind of long emergency.
    Also, the reason Italians needed help with train schedules (and the reason Krauts turned to street brawling) was commies screwing everything up. Had the commies been shown stunning Pacific vistas from rotor-wing aircraft, the overcorrection would not have been possible.
    Which dictator was it that shot Randy Weaver's wife? Was that Saddam Hussein?
    , @William Badwhite

    I’m with Churchill on this – democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others.
     
    Democracy has only been in wide use globally for a bit more than 100 years. Not enough data to make this claim. There's a lot of ruin in a nation and 100 years isn't enough time for it to play out.

    The UK in the time from when Churchill said that to now has declined precipitously. The UK will be a majority non-white country in less than 50 years depending on whose estimates you believe. Churchill (one of history's more over-rated people) was talking nonsense.


    The difference is that in a democracy you can get rid of the guy after a few years where under dictatorship you are stuck with him until he dies.
     
    Democracy and dictatorship aren't the only two options.
    , @bigdicknick
    dictatorship produces the best(singapore) and worst(mao's china) governance. Dictatorship just means the plebes can't vote. Whether that is good or bad depends who the plebes are and who the dictator is.
  98. Anon[141] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    A Swedish coronavirus story of a different sort. In the following video a YouTubing cruising couple from Sweden visit their sailmaker to get their sails refurbed. While interviewing the proprietor they are shown a gigantic laser cutter used to produced pieces of material for making sails … except currently it is making pieces for medical gowns for Swedish medical workers … out of synthetic spinnaker sail material. Ten employees whose salaries the Swedish government covers are sewing them together. These are washable, reusable gowns. The gown part starts at 09:40.

  99. I’m all for demagogy [sic*] and insults. They have their place in the real world where you want to get things done rather than win a Nobel Peace Prize. However, I could do without the big business complicity.

    * demagoguery

  100. @anon
    Mostly I agree with stuff. But I am ok with about 1/2 of the labor arbitrage globalism. Remember pre Japanese cars? And Norma Rae? Was the answer the union label? We have been transferring what was the 18th Century British high tech industry of textiles, after first stealing it from Britain, to progressively lower wage areas. Starting with the Carolinas. And eventually the cheapest labor in the world. Meanwhile, where it made sense, we kept carpeting:

    M

    ore than 85% of the U.S. carpet and rug market is produced by mills located within a 65-mile radius of Dalton, for an estimated $8 billion in business activity. Georgia supplies more than 45% of the world's carpet and rugs
     
    Mostly because of the weight. Same with bricks and drywall. Capital lowered the labor content of the products such that the landed cost of domestic manufacture was competitive. The point being, it is desirable for us to export airplanes and import labor intensive stuff. Up to a point. And also one of the points is that if you allow imports of cheap stuff, you shouldn't need to import low wage labor. The whole thing made sense up to a point, but got way out of hand.

    You would hate reversing it all. It's really complicated. I'll leave the hard stuff to the big brains here. But keep Boeing and lose the Norma Rae jobs.

    Offshoring labor intensive work makes a lot of sense but it was overdone and left us vulnerable. We can’t even produce PPE in the midst of an epidemic because we’ve lost much of our manufacturing capability. And labor intensive is another way of saying “creates a lot of jobs”. Is it really an improvement that the Norma Rae’s of 2020 don’t have jobs at the mill anymore, if the alternative is that they live on disability and take opiates? It would be nice if we all could do high value work like writing software for Boeing (oops) but some people just don’t have the intellect so it’s either tend to the loom or no job at all.

    Unions were a big part of the problem because they created an “us vs. them” attitude. Watch the “American Factory” documentary, where they contrast the attitude of the workers in China vs. the US. The Chinese workers are psychologically invested in their employer and want to see it succeed – they know that its success is their success. The American workers whine and kvetch like surly teenagers and view their employer as their enemy. Little wonder that the suits were glad to close their US factories, especially the unionized ones.

    • Replies: @utu
    "American workers whine and kvetch like surly teenagers and view their employer as their enemy" - Viewing employer as an enemy was just a response to how workers were viewed by employers. Unions were only a minor part of the equation. They did not have a proactive power. Their power was only negative. Stakes were higher in America because losing a job in America was like losing your life. No insurance, meager or nonexistent unemployment benefits followed by eviction from your apartment. And you are despised nobody loser. America among Western countries is more than anybody a homo homini lupus est culture. It does not have to be so as you look at other countries like Germany where the relationship between unions and employers is productive and much less adversarial, but it must be so because this is what America is.
    , @anon
    Norma Rae should be in some reasonably paying service job. Or making carpet in Dalton, Ga and shopping at Walmart.

    The point being is not only was her job offshored, but we imported unlimited unskilled labor, driving down wages her potential wages.

    There are lots of difficulties in raising standards of living in a closed economy. Imports of goods frees up constraints on one factor of production (labor), which COULD have reduced the pressure for open borders. But it was all overdone.

    And furthermore, before some big ass reform is implemented, people need to know that or remember that the status quo didn't develop in a vacuum. Market forces which included individual preferences, drove all this. That the market forces were allowed to run amok needs to be addressed.

    Right now we have advantages that weren't available in 1980. Among them record low cost of capital. And energy independence. Oil price fed inflation aka stagflation drove a lot of it. So it can be done more or less intelligently. But current sentiment can be directionally right but won't help without at least modest nuance regarding its complexity.
  101. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Well now, America would be much better off removing all students from China from American universities -- their large presence an excellent example of American corruption -- and that certainly is an American decision.

    The idea that the Chinese government or Chinese people would accept this decision without complaint -- it being the internal governing decision of another country -- is pretty ludicrous, and not born out by recent Chinese behavior. So make sure to save lots of your amoral realist preaching for the Chinese. They need it.

    We certainly can't control what Xi Jinping does. Nor should we be concerned with the feelings of either him, or the Chinese people, when American interests are at stake. Because it seems the country with the most 'can do' attitude is precisely the one without many citizens tweeting nauseating crap about the feelings of the leadership or people of an industrial rival.

    >The idea that the Chinese government or Chinese people would accept this decision without complaint — it being the internal governing decision of another country — is pretty ludicrous, and not born out by recent Chinese behavior.

    Oh, they’d learn to accept it with a different kind of American leader. You think I’d give a damn if Beijing’s feelings are hurt by some American college students? Especially needed are a few sharp, public examples made of their little toadies in our private, media, and academic sectors, now that PRC influence has gone so far: collaborators need to understand that there’s a price for collaborating that isn’t worth paying. Make an example of a few: the rest will quickly bow out. Once that happens, native American helpers will dry up, meaning that the PRC will have to rely more exclusively on their own nationals to secure their interests in the USA: which would far easier to deal with under said proper nationalist leadership.

    Here’s the rub: I genuinely think we’d get along better with the Chinese *long-term* under this kind of leadership rather than the simpering globalists who seem to think that groveling naturally attracts the best in human behavior. We don’t need to be friends. We do need to have a functional relationship. Best chance of that is if both sides have a relatively equal, transparent ratio of what will and won’t be tolerated, and people generally like strong horses better than weak ones. And there is one thing we share in common that we do not share with the people at Davos: the belief that the Westphalian system is a good thing.

    >Nor should we be concerned with the feelings of either him, or the Chinese people, when American interests are at stake.

    Exactly. But American interests are not at stake concerning Xinjiang: I could not care less what Beijing does there. American interests are currently most threatened by our own elites, above all else. The Chinese wouldn’t have attained the influence they have over our media, gotten the property they did from the private sector, etc, without them anyway, so…

    • Agree: Dissident
  102. @Jack D
    Offshoring labor intensive work makes a lot of sense but it was overdone and left us vulnerable. We can't even produce PPE in the midst of an epidemic because we've lost much of our manufacturing capability. And labor intensive is another way of saying "creates a lot of jobs". Is it really an improvement that the Norma Rae's of 2020 don't have jobs at the mill anymore, if the alternative is that they live on disability and take opiates? It would be nice if we all could do high value work like writing software for Boeing (oops) but some people just don't have the intellect so it's either tend to the loom or no job at all.

    Unions were a big part of the problem because they created an "us vs. them" attitude. Watch the "American Factory" documentary, where they contrast the attitude of the workers in China vs. the US. The Chinese workers are psychologically invested in their employer and want to see it succeed - they know that its success is their success. The American workers whine and kvetch like surly teenagers and view their employer as their enemy. Little wonder that the suits were glad to close their US factories, especially the unionized ones.

    “American workers whine and kvetch like surly teenagers and view their employer as their enemy” – Viewing employer as an enemy was just a response to how workers were viewed by employers. Unions were only a minor part of the equation. They did not have a proactive power. Their power was only negative. Stakes were higher in America because losing a job in America was like losing your life. No insurance, meager or nonexistent unemployment benefits followed by eviction from your apartment. And you are despised nobody loser. America among Western countries is more than anybody a homo homini lupus est culture. It does not have to be so as you look at other countries like Germany where the relationship between unions and employers is productive and much less adversarial, but it must be so because this is what America is.

    • Agree: Old Prude
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Although, Americans had a role in setting up the German system post-WW2 (granted, it’s pro-worker provisions were designed to keep communism at bay).
    , @vinteuil

    ...losing a job in America was like losing your life. No insurance, meager or nonexistent unemployment benefits followed by eviction from your apartment. And you are [a] despised nobody loser. America among Western countries is more than anybody a homo homini lupus est culture.
     
    You seem to get your ideas about America before the advent of the welfare state entirely from lefty propaganda. You seem to know nothing of the role played by private charity.

    I take it you don't live here, and have no family history here?

    , @anon
    Stakes were higher in America because losing a job in America was like losing your life. No insurance, meager or nonexistent unemployment benefits followed by eviction from your apartment. And you are despised nobody loser.

    Could you be more specific? What portion of the space-time continuum are you referring to?
  103. anon[170] • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t usually post anonymously but this post is so obsequious…

    Generally, on the Corona Virus kerfuffle I think that Mr Sailer has got it completely right and it tallies exactly with my thinking…

    (1) He is saying “I wish I was as certain of anything as many of my commentators are certain of everything”.

    (2) References to “Bat Soup”, when it has been established that no such thing exists in China, or incessantly calling the thing “the Chinese virus” instead of its proper scientific name, and other childish insults are not a substitute for sober and serious measures to enable the manufacture of essential medical equipment and drugs in our own countries.

    • Replies: @Aeronerauk
    substitutes? no. but theres nothing wrong with prodding the Chinese for their, uh, eccentric tastes. Norm MacDonald, one of Steve's favorites, has a song about his love of bat on YouTube.

    https://youtu.be/rrhux_CZGRE
    , @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Wuhan virus is a perfectly acceptable name, and has plenty of historical precedent in terms of how viruses are named. China virus is a well deserved mockery in response to trivial SJW complaints against this.

    And I assume you name everything by its proper scientific name, such as I don't like my neighbor's Canis lupus familiaris shitting in my yard?

    Do you have any other worthless complaints?
  104. @Johann Ricke

    China is on a 100 year plan
     
    Actually, Xi Jinping is on the stay-ahead-of-his-rivals-one-more-day plan. The following is a list of the better-known Chinese coup attempts in the last 50 years:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_Biao#%22Lin_Biao_incident%22_and_death
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hua_Guofeng#Ousting_and_death
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Xilai

    One succeeded. Deng Xiaoping went on to reverse many of Mao's policies in the economic sphere. It's almost certain that power struggles are going on below the surface today, especially among the people turfed by Xi Jinping during his ascent to power, but possibly even involving his inner circle. Note that the commanding general who served the last de jure monarch, the Last Emperor (whose reign was chronicled in Bertolucci's Oscar-winning film), forced his abdication, and attempted to make himself emperor.

    In the last century, with one notorious exception, Western politicians have been docile eunuchs who serve their turn. In contrast, Chinese politicians are much more similar to the Companions who fought alongside Alexander - they seek power in their own right by hook or by crook, via palace coup or mutiny in ways that would be recognizable to their Chinese forebears thousands of years ago. That's why Xi Jinping's horizons are much shorter term than any Western politician's. As someone whose legitimacy rests solely on the brute force he can bring to bear, he can be outmaneuvered at any time, like Deng's predecessor, by others charismatic and skillful enough to organize a temporary alliance of his rivals and enemies against him.

    Ah, intelligence! What size hat do you wear? I’d bet you eat a lot of fish.

    • Troll: Inquiring Mind
  105. Anonymous[617] • Disclaimer says:

    Scott McConnell’s comments have nothing to do with China or disengagement of anything except possibly disengagement of Trump from politics.
    Note that Scott McConnell is engaging in demagoguery and shields himself by accusing another person of demagoguery. That’s a tell, a fairly crude and obvious one, that his words have no content.

    Content: Globalism ends autarky, but nations that have disputes (see European Union for examples) need as least basic autarky to avoid immediately losing their disputes. China’s interests are in (at the least) reducing everybody else’s degree of autarky to its own — and China has zero autarky, especially after the blunders of Mao’s later days destroyed much of China’s resources and the Three Gorges Dam could potentially destroy much more of China’s resources (rather as the Aswan Damn has destroyed annual re-fertilization from annual Nile floods and could take out Egypt if it were suddenly destroyed as a military target).
    So – if anybody wants autarky (and nobody does, quite yet, on the governmental level) they will have to contest with China over that — China will offer unbeatable prices to break the attempt at autarky. What else could it do — rely on the charity and good faith of the West that has failed Russia so badly?
    End state is that autarky develops anyway, and unbeatable prices are ignored. This might be accompanied by a more obvious control of economic activity by government than the current “mixed economy” (in political theory this is called “fascism”, but nobody wants to say that). The COVID-19 situation in Europe, if nowhere else, has made a return to autarky inevitable.
    The Fall of the Cities will decentralized Western economies, but it appears that the Fall of the Cities will be accompanied by a return of regionalism (again, as in the EU), and the regions will (as they always have) contest with each other — and each will require local autarky, or at least multiple sources for imports.
    In any event, China has overplayed its hand, and is now going to lose for a few decades. Its days of being given implicit trust and a little more responsibility than it can actually discharge are over. It’s been expensive, but OTH Asia is now a full member of the human community, which it was not 50 years ago. Good outcome, as such things go.

  106. @Jack D
    Maybe I'm naive but I always thought that democratic values were self-evident. I am rather shocked by the hostility I see here to the thought that the Chinese might someday, God forbid, choose their own rulers. In fact, I wonder whether the hostility is not to the thought of "Chinese democracy" but toward democracy in general. I think this hostility goes well beyond "It's none of our business" to "I secretly admire dictators."

    I'm with Churchill on this - democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others. Democracy seems capable of producing leaders who are just as shitty as ones who take power without benefit of elections. The difference is that in a democracy you can get rid of the guy after a few years where under dictatorship you are stuck with him until he dies. And the longer he sticks around, the more corrupt and autocratic the system becomes. China, until recently, didn't have a democracy (to say the least) but at least they (in the post-Mao era) had a system of planned succession, but with Xi they are back to the dictator for life scheme. No matter how much the dictator makes the trains run on time, dictatorship is still a shitty system.

    No matter how much the dictator makes the trains run on time, dictatorship is still a shitty system.

    Do you think that democracy is working out well for the people of the United States (admittedly hard to identify who they are supposed to be nowadays)?

    (Personally, I am a fatalist and have no faith that humans have any control over anything they do, at any scale, so – fortunately – I do not have to form an opinion on this matter. But those who believe they can influence such things, well, go for it, I say, and all the best.)

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The difficulty we have is that electoral institutions are a pantomime conducted around a system of rule by interacting sets of cadres. There isn't some iron law of social relations that's the problem here. The problem is that our legal-formal institutions are lousy. The general public isn't perturbed by this so long as the ruin does not have a discernible impact on their mundane life. As for attentive publics, some benefit from the current order, some might like modifications but cannot assemble the necessary force to implement them, and some are thinking inside-the-box just the way the inattentive public does.

    We have a Facebook wall which allows us to see what gliberals and leftoids hold dear (mostly, their worldview is a function of their random hostility and their sense of entitlement) and I'm a participant in a number of fora composed of people who are starboard. There is, if anything, less interest in institutional adjustment than there was 35 years ago, and there was only a modest amount 35 years ago. The left has no interest in procedural-structural matters; they just want what they want. The modal opinion of conservatives on this subject is that the only problems we have are 'judicial activism', 'the administrative state', 'big government' or some combination thereof. The don't give a damn about measures to help public agencies perform better, nor do they have aught but the most inchoate set of criteria for differentiating between what is a function of the central government, what is a function of particular governments and what is best left to the private sector. And, of course, James Madison et al are regarded in a way similar to Hari Seldon in Isaac Asimov's Foundation series.

  107. @CCR
    This is exactly what will happen.

    Agree, until the GOP’s unfailing efforts to eliminate its own electorate pass a certain threshold. Then it’ll be Democrats doing it without any pretense.

  108. @Steve Sailer
    Isn't "Chinese Democracy" some kind of pejorative? Or am I just confused because that was the name of Axl Rose of Guns & Roses solo album that took him like 20 years to finish?

    Chinese I have read or spoken to actually sincerely hate democracy and regard it as an unjustifiably corrupt and nonfunctional system. It really is fundamentally anathemic to their nature.

  109. The Chinese as a Race are genetically different from Northern Europeans and are temperamentally unsuited to notions like democracy. In all of Chinese history, has there ever been a thread of political thought and philosophy as there has been in Northern Europe and the USA? Where is the Chinese John Locke or Thomas Hobbes or Rousseau? (And for that matter, where is the Chinese Immanuel Kant or Rene DesCartes or David Hume?) Where is the Chinese version of the American Constitution or Magna Carta?

    Its not just China of course. No-one outside of Europe, from the Hindu to the Aborigine, has ever given any time to philosophical and political theorising. Its a white man’s thing. One can see this in the West today, where non-whites join in the political process, not out of a commitment to one or other ideology, but simply as a means of acquiring resources and power for their own ethnic group. Some of them dress it up as principled and disinterested since they know that that is what appeals to liberal whites, but there are others among their number that don’t even realise that they are supposed to do that.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Mao and Nehru weren’t political theorists?
  110. @Testing12
    "...without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government and people. "

    What a spineless statement. And people wonder why driving out capitulating cucks from the conservative ranks became such a priority in recent years. "I fear demagogy.." wah wah wah cry me a river you sensitive soul.

    For starters, Scott, dont conflate insulting the CCP with insulting "the Chinese people". Slippery language, that. I haven't seen much of the latter at all. Last I checked we are still supposed to have free speech in this country, therefore insulting assholes is a right to be exercised, and relished. On that note, fuck you, Scott.

    Additionally, if theres one modern country that deserves the usually hyperbolic comparisons to Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Soviet Union, it is Communist China. Concentration camps, ethnic cleansing, organ harvesting, mobile execution squads, secret police, zero freedom of speech... what kind of conservative would support trying to shush "insults" toward this dystopian Communist world power? I mean I know we hate illegal immigration, but sheesh, it is possible that there are high-IQ threats to the American way of life too...

    The point (I thought) is more that there’s no need to raise tensions unnecessarily. As opposed to raising tensions by shifting supply chains domestically, which is quite necessary.

  111. Anonymous[617] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Maybe I'm naive but I always thought that democratic values were self-evident. I am rather shocked by the hostility I see here to the thought that the Chinese might someday, God forbid, choose their own rulers. In fact, I wonder whether the hostility is not to the thought of "Chinese democracy" but toward democracy in general. I think this hostility goes well beyond "It's none of our business" to "I secretly admire dictators."

    I'm with Churchill on this - democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others. Democracy seems capable of producing leaders who are just as shitty as ones who take power without benefit of elections. The difference is that in a democracy you can get rid of the guy after a few years where under dictatorship you are stuck with him until he dies. And the longer he sticks around, the more corrupt and autocratic the system becomes. China, until recently, didn't have a democracy (to say the least) but at least they (in the post-Mao era) had a system of planned succession, but with Xi they are back to the dictator for life scheme. No matter how much the dictator makes the trains run on time, dictatorship is still a shitty system.

    Democracy makes sense only when the people elected don’t steal everything they can get their hands on and when the demos, the “common people”, haven’t noticed the they can vote themselves a living and the politicians haven’t noticed that they can import foreigners who will reliably vote for them. It also needs a moral population capable of deferring gratification and maintaining “social capital”. All these conditions have been increasingly and overtly violated in the US since about 1960 (covertly since Wilson’s administration).

    Xi’s rule is a definite retrogression, as illustrated by its handling of the COVID-19 affair. China has been in fiancial trouble for several years now. I suspect that rule by committee proved ineffective as the various cities and regions of China captured their representatives and dictated impossible and inflexible demands, but that’s just a guess. When that happens, one person rule is the only way to get anything at all done. Consider Trump and the bureaucracy / wealthy donors / Democratic professional politicians / academics with a pet and failed theory. If Trump didn’t break metaphorical logjams, they wouldn’t be broken. Same with Xi, I’d suspect.

    Critical fact: The world has spent its money on consumption since about 1970, its capital and labor stock has deteriorated, and we’re now poor. All of us, even the ones who have fancy status symbols and prestige. We’re so poor we can’t even manage public health or prepare for emergencies. We can’t even build housing for low end labor, which is being squeezed pretty hard.
    Under such a system, all government, democracy or dictatorship, tends to revert to a single decision maker. (And the single decision maker tends to go off his head from overwork.)

    So, no, the form of government (democracy, for example, or any other form) won’t save us. It can even kill us. We have to save ourselves.

  112. @Jack D
    Maybe I'm naive but I always thought that democratic values were self-evident. I am rather shocked by the hostility I see here to the thought that the Chinese might someday, God forbid, choose their own rulers. In fact, I wonder whether the hostility is not to the thought of "Chinese democracy" but toward democracy in general. I think this hostility goes well beyond "It's none of our business" to "I secretly admire dictators."

    I'm with Churchill on this - democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others. Democracy seems capable of producing leaders who are just as shitty as ones who take power without benefit of elections. The difference is that in a democracy you can get rid of the guy after a few years where under dictatorship you are stuck with him until he dies. And the longer he sticks around, the more corrupt and autocratic the system becomes. China, until recently, didn't have a democracy (to say the least) but at least they (in the post-Mao era) had a system of planned succession, but with Xi they are back to the dictator for life scheme. No matter how much the dictator makes the trains run on time, dictatorship is still a shitty system.

    I’d like to see China become a democracy, if they want to be. The example of Taiwan shows that you can have a democracy with Han Chinese, at least at a smaller scale.

    But what are you going to do about it? The Chinese government is very strong, and our own national prestige is in the toilet with this coronavirus thing. And since becoming a democracy usually means bad things happen to the dictators, the CCP leadership has every incentive to see it never happens. Chinese people see their own country becoming strong and controlling the virus while ours loses thousands of people and can’t make masks or ventilators in sufficient numbers. What would you think if you were the average Joe Zhang in Beijing?

    It’s like Iran–hey, the mullahs suck, I’d love to see a moderate pro-Western government in charge. But after we’ve been starving them with sanctions, a pro-Western government is unlikely to arise democratically. And I’m not eager to send more American boys to die for some higher goal that’s probably just window dressing on what Adelson wants anyway.

    I’m for democracy in America. As for the rest of the world, that’s up to each country’s citizens.

  113. @Chris Mallory
    I worked with an old boy who was a Marine at Chosin Reservoir. He didn't have a good thing to say about the Chinese. Wouldn't even eat fortune cookies. But he liked them better than he did the US Army.

    I always find it touching the way the Navy sticks up for the Marines like a big sister protecting her retarded little brother.

  114. @Sam Haysom
    Lol old as fuck boomers got the societal shutdown they wanted and now they are ready to give up on America . I genuinely didn’t think my hatred for boomers could get any more incandescent. I’m bullish on the US simply for the fact that Y2Flu is the death kneel to boomer influence in the US. You think any red state millennial is ever going to lift a finger to help a boomer after this- Y2Flu will be way less deadly than the cold in Texas. It’s not even close.


    I mean break down Steve’s position for a second- he’s for being bitchy to ugly female writers, taunting dumb blacks and sleepy Mexicans but when it comes to the Jews he’s downright worshipful and thinks we shouldn’t be mean to the Chinese. Steve just worships power politics. He’s an dollar store Henry Kissinger.

    I mean break down Steve’s position for a second- he’s for being bitchy to ugly female writers, taunting dumb blacks and sleepy Mexicans but when it comes to the Jews he’s downright worshipful and thinks we shouldn’t be mean to the Chinese. Steve just worships power politics. He’s an dollar store Henry Kissinger.

    According to some gatekeepers like RationalWiki both Sailer and Derb are anti-Semites, so the groveling is pointless.

  115. Anonymous[205] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Maybe I'm naive but I always thought that democratic values were self-evident. I am rather shocked by the hostility I see here to the thought that the Chinese might someday, God forbid, choose their own rulers. In fact, I wonder whether the hostility is not to the thought of "Chinese democracy" but toward democracy in general. I think this hostility goes well beyond "It's none of our business" to "I secretly admire dictators."

    I'm with Churchill on this - democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others. Democracy seems capable of producing leaders who are just as shitty as ones who take power without benefit of elections. The difference is that in a democracy you can get rid of the guy after a few years where under dictatorship you are stuck with him until he dies. And the longer he sticks around, the more corrupt and autocratic the system becomes. China, until recently, didn't have a democracy (to say the least) but at least they (in the post-Mao era) had a system of planned succession, but with Xi they are back to the dictator for life scheme. No matter how much the dictator makes the trains run on time, dictatorship is still a shitty system.

    An astute observer sooner or later comes to the realization that *all* the power handlers, movers and shakers etc of the western ‘democracies’ are basically bought – just like $50 hookers – by high finance elitists. Of course, they are so dammed punctilious in covering their tracked and disguising the smell that they hoi polloi simply do not and cannot cotton on.
    “As wise as serpents” as the saying goes.

    A classic object lesson in this were the ‘Brexit wars’ that raged in the UK from 2016 to 2019.
    A clear Democratic majority of the British electorate wanted out. However, the money power, (The Economist), wanted differently – hence the endless backsliding, deceit, duplicity, repudiation etc etc by MPs who have ‘honourable(!)’ in there official titles.

    Bottom Line:
    If you want to know what the money-power is thinking – and what their paid political whores will do immediately later – read The Economist, their in house journal.

  116. @petit bourgeois
    Ask these knuckleheads what a "fascist" is. None of these psuedo-intellectuals can define what a "fascist" is. It literally means whatever the red diaper babies say it means.

    Both "Fascism" and "Marxism" are neo-Hegelian in nature. E.g., seizing the means of production for the good of the nation, or corporatism. Benito seized Olivetti in WWII the same way that Stalin seized agrarian farming of wheat or Mao seized the rice paddies through central economic planning. I've been reading Steve since 2001, and I've never heard a "fascist" call to arms in nearly 20 years.

    Real fascism requires seizing those means to bring the nation out of its backwards nature. But there is a difference: China doesn't make Ferraris or Lamborghinis. They can't even put a monkey into orbit.

    These pinkos also equate Hitler as a "fascist." Germany in 1941 had the same cradle-to-grave welfare programs as modern day Denmark, Netherlands or Sweden. Are they going to equate nationalism socialism of these countries as being fascistict? Methinks not.

    Let's take a look at another element of"Fascism" with a capital "F." You know the kind of "Fascism" espoused by Giovanni Gentile, the philosopher of Fascism. Masculine protest is not a talking point with Steve, e.g. Marcus Garvey marching down the streets of Harlem in full shoulder board uniform with a plumed hat expressing masculine protest. Il Duce did the same thing, to the benefit of all his Raza.

    These people are so freaking stupid they don't even stand up to my sophomoric armchair political analysis.

    Steve: you know you are doing something right when the enemy of a free people call you a fascist (whatever that means). Keep up the good work, comrade.

    The lefty pundit Matt Stoller calls the CCP fascist.

  117. @utu
    "American workers whine and kvetch like surly teenagers and view their employer as their enemy" - Viewing employer as an enemy was just a response to how workers were viewed by employers. Unions were only a minor part of the equation. They did not have a proactive power. Their power was only negative. Stakes were higher in America because losing a job in America was like losing your life. No insurance, meager or nonexistent unemployment benefits followed by eviction from your apartment. And you are despised nobody loser. America among Western countries is more than anybody a homo homini lupus est culture. It does not have to be so as you look at other countries like Germany where the relationship between unions and employers is productive and much less adversarial, but it must be so because this is what America is.

    Although, Americans had a role in setting up the German system post-WW2 (granted, it’s pro-worker provisions were designed to keep communism at bay).

    • Replies: @utu
    "Although, Americans had a role.." - Fortunately Americans let Germans be Germans to continue their traditional approach to social-economics that had origins going back to 19th century. Their approach was in direct opposition to what was preached and to lesser extent to what was practiced by the British.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_List
    Friedrich List: by Alexander Hamilton and the American School rooted in Hamilton's economic principles, including Daniel Raymond,[2] but also by the general mode of thinking of America's first Treasury Secretary, and by his strictures on the doctrine of Adam Smith. He opposed the cosmopolitan principle in the contemporary economical system and the absolute doctrine of free trade which was in harmony with that principle, and instead developed the infant industry argument, to which he had been exposed by Hamilton and Raymond.[2] He gave prominence to the national idea and insisted on the special requirements of each nation according to its circumstances and especially to the degree of its development. He famously doubted the sincerity of calls to free trade from developed nations, in particular Britain:

    Any nation which by means of protective duties and restrictions on navigation has raised her manufacturing power and her navigation to such a degree of development that no other nation can sustain free competition with her, can do nothing wiser than to throw away these ladders of her greatness, to preach to other nations the benefits of free trade, and to declare in penitent tones that she has hitherto wandered in the paths of error, and has now for the first time succeeded in discovering the truth.[16]
     
    1883–1911: Development of the first healthcare system of modern history, starting with policies of the introduced Otto von Bismarck's social legislation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_school_of_economics
    The historical school held that history was the key source of knowledge about human actions and economic matters, since economics was culture-specific, and hence not generalizable over space and time. The school rejected the universal validity of economic theorems. They saw economics as resulting from careful empirical and historical analysis instead of from logic and mathematics. The school also preferred reality, historical, political, and social, as well as economic, to mathematical modelling.

    The historical school held that history was the key source of knowledge about human actions and economic matters, since economics was culture-specific, and hence not generalizable over space and time. The school rejected the universal validity of economic theorems. They saw economics as resulting from careful empirical and historical analysis instead of from logic and mathematics. The school also preferred reality, historical, political, and social, as well as economic, to mathematical modelling.

    Most members of the school were also Sozialpolitiker (social policy advocates), i.e. concerned with social reform and improved conditions for the common man during a period of heavy industrialization. They were more disparagingly referred to as Kathedersozialisten, rendered in English as "socialists of the chair" (compare armchair revolutionary), due to their positions as professors.
     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Labour_Front
    Following the National Socialist’s Volksgemeinschaft approach towards developing a greater "people's community", the DAF expanded or established new social, educational, sports, health, and entertainment programs for German workers via the Strength through Joy, which included factory libraries and gardens, swimming pools, low-priced hot meals, adult education programs, periodic work breaks, physical education, sports facilities, gymnastic training, orchestral music during lunch breaks, free tickets to concerts and opera, and subsidized vacations that saw over 10.3 million Germans signed up by 1938.[2] The DAF financed the building of ocean-going vessels that permitted German workers to pay minimal prices to sail to many foreign destinations. Up to six ocean liners were operating just before the start of World War II. According to the chief of the Associated Press in Berlin, Louis P. Lochner, ticket prices for ocean steamer vessels ranged from twelve to sixteen marks for "a full week on such a steamer".[3] For those who desired vacations closer to home, the DAF constructed spa and summer resort complexes. The most ambitious was the 4.5 km long Prora complex on Rugen island, which was to have 20,000 beds, and would have been the largest beach resort in the world. It was never completed and the massive complex largely remained an empty shell right through until the 21st century.
     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy
    The social market economy (SOME; German: soziale Marktwirtschaft), also called Rhine capitalism or social capitalism,[1] is a socioeconomic model combining a free market capitalist economic system alongside social policies that establish both fair competition within the market and a welfare state.[2][3] It is sometimes classified as a coordinated market economy.[4] The social market economy was originally promoted and implemented in West Germany by the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) under Chancellor Konrad Adenauer in 1949.[5] Its origins can be traced to the interwar Freiburg school of economic thought
     
  118. @Bragadocious
    It doesn't seem that complicated. Let the Chinese make our t-shirts, sneakers and toasters. But set aside several key categories reserved for domestic production.

    - PPE
    - Steel
    - Critical pharmaceuticals
    - Ventilators

    Trump 4 years ago was talking about steel being a national security item that needed to be wrested away from Chinese companies and he was right. He didn't mention the other 3, and I can't really blame him since no one else except maybe Peter Navarro was thinking about this stuff. (Certainly no Democrats)

    “It doesn’t seem that complicated. Let the Chinese make our t-shirts, sneakers and toasters. “

    Then what’s the point of having free trade with Mexico if China is going to be making America’s cheap stuff?

  119. @martin_2
    The Chinese as a Race are genetically different from Northern Europeans and are temperamentally unsuited to notions like democracy. In all of Chinese history, has there ever been a thread of political thought and philosophy as there has been in Northern Europe and the USA? Where is the Chinese John Locke or Thomas Hobbes or Rousseau? (And for that matter, where is the Chinese Immanuel Kant or Rene DesCartes or David Hume?) Where is the Chinese version of the American Constitution or Magna Carta?

    Its not just China of course. No-one outside of Europe, from the Hindu to the Aborigine, has ever given any time to philosophical and political theorising. Its a white man's thing. One can see this in the West today, where non-whites join in the political process, not out of a commitment to one or other ideology, but simply as a means of acquiring resources and power for their own ethnic group. Some of them dress it up as principled and disinterested since they know that that is what appeals to liberal whites, but there are others among their number that don't even realise that they are supposed to do that.

    Mao and Nehru weren’t political theorists?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Quote Mao and I'll rebut him with Mao. Mao was the worst kind of pure theorist, and, like Hitler, he's been on every side of every issue. Nehru was uncomplicatedly a theorist but I believe the second martin was talking about East Asians. He's a bit over-broad but fundamentally correct regarding the subject, ie, the Han menace. The North-Western European political philosophical tradition is planetarily aberrant and most Earthians do not want a State which leaves them alone.
  120. @Dave Pinsen
    Mao and Nehru weren’t political theorists?

    Quote Mao and I’ll rebut him with Mao. Mao was the worst kind of pure theorist, and, like Hitler, he’s been on every side of every issue. Nehru was uncomplicatedly a theorist but I believe the second martin was talking about East Asians. He’s a bit over-broad but fundamentally correct regarding the subject, ie, the Han menace. The North-Western European political philosophical tradition is planetarily aberrant and most Earthians do not want a State which leaves them alone.

  121. @Jack D
    Maybe I'm naive but I always thought that democratic values were self-evident. I am rather shocked by the hostility I see here to the thought that the Chinese might someday, God forbid, choose their own rulers. In fact, I wonder whether the hostility is not to the thought of "Chinese democracy" but toward democracy in general. I think this hostility goes well beyond "It's none of our business" to "I secretly admire dictators."

    I'm with Churchill on this - democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others. Democracy seems capable of producing leaders who are just as shitty as ones who take power without benefit of elections. The difference is that in a democracy you can get rid of the guy after a few years where under dictatorship you are stuck with him until he dies. And the longer he sticks around, the more corrupt and autocratic the system becomes. China, until recently, didn't have a democracy (to say the least) but at least they (in the post-Mao era) had a system of planned succession, but with Xi they are back to the dictator for life scheme. No matter how much the dictator makes the trains run on time, dictatorship is still a shitty system.

    Depends where you’re country’s at — the reason you have heard of Korea, let alone rely on and compete with their top-level goods, is because of decades of the best kind of nationally-interested dictatorship. The State is always loved in an emergency and from-the-ashes national development is a kind of long emergency.
    Also, the reason Italians needed help with train schedules (and the reason Krauts turned to street brawling) was commies screwing everything up. Had the commies been shown stunning Pacific vistas from rotor-wing aircraft, the overcorrection would not have been possible.
    Which dictator was it that shot Randy Weaver’s wife? Was that Saddam Hussein?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    The problem with "we'll give our leaders TEMPORARY dictatorial powers during an emergency" is that the emergency somehow never seems to end. We are finding this out now in the US.

    Both Commies and rightists tend to view democracy like a trolley that you ride to its destination (named "POWER"). Once you reach your stop, you get off. The cure for Communism is not right wing dictatorship nor vice versa.

    I missed the part of history where Germany and Italy were ruled by communists before they were ruled by fascists.

    Again I continue to be stunned by the lack of enthusiasm for democracy displayed here. I put this down to the fact that most Americans have never experienced the utter fear that goes with dictatorial rule. One way helicopter rides for your political enemies sounds like good fun until the State decides that YOU are the enemy or maybe one of your family members. You think, I have nothing to fear, I am no Commie. Well maybe you ain't but maybe they make a mistake and think that you are. Maybe your name is spelled the same as a Commie's. Maybe you have a jealous rival or business partner who wants to get rid of you and rats you out with a false report. As the helicopter doors open you cry out, "there must be some mistake" but there's no judge, no jury, no due process, no appeals, so off you go into the wild blue yonder. Enjoy your ride.

  122. Sure, but your request will have to wait until the Skittle®-shitting Unicorns we were promised by our leaders are delivered.

    #MAGA

  123. @Bragadocious
    It doesn't seem that complicated. Let the Chinese make our t-shirts, sneakers and toasters. But set aside several key categories reserved for domestic production.

    - PPE
    - Steel
    - Critical pharmaceuticals
    - Ventilators

    Trump 4 years ago was talking about steel being a national security item that needed to be wrested away from Chinese companies and he was right. He didn't mention the other 3, and I can't really blame him since no one else except maybe Peter Navarro was thinking about this stuff. (Certainly no Democrats)

    All medical supplies. Normal saline IV bags, gauze, defibrillators, sterile operating packs…. Computer chips and electronics. Rare earth metals and processing. Chemicals.

    And we need trained machinists and production engineers. Better start on that.

  124. @Dave Pinsen
    Although, Americans had a role in setting up the German system post-WW2 (granted, it’s pro-worker provisions were designed to keep communism at bay).

    “Although, Americans had a role..” – Fortunately Americans let Germans be Germans to continue their traditional approach to social-economics that had origins going back to 19th century. Their approach was in direct opposition to what was preached and to lesser extent to what was practiced by the British.

    [MORE]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_List
    Friedrich List: by Alexander Hamilton and the American School rooted in Hamilton’s economic principles, including Daniel Raymond,[2] but also by the general mode of thinking of America’s first Treasury Secretary, and by his strictures on the doctrine of Adam Smith. He opposed the cosmopolitan principle in the contemporary economical system and the absolute doctrine of free trade which was in harmony with that principle, and instead developed the infant industry argument, to which he had been exposed by Hamilton and Raymond.[2] He gave prominence to the national idea and insisted on the special requirements of each nation according to its circumstances and especially to the degree of its development. He famously doubted the sincerity of calls to free trade from developed nations, in particular Britain:

    Any nation which by means of protective duties and restrictions on navigation has raised her manufacturing power and her navigation to such a degree of development that no other nation can sustain free competition with her, can do nothing wiser than to throw away these ladders of her greatness, to preach to other nations the benefits of free trade, and to declare in penitent tones that she has hitherto wandered in the paths of error, and has now for the first time succeeded in discovering the truth.[16]

    1883–1911: Development of the first healthcare system of modern history, starting with policies of the introduced Otto von Bismarck’s social legislation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_school_of_economics
    The historical school held that history was the key source of knowledge about human actions and economic matters, since economics was culture-specific, and hence not generalizable over space and time. The school rejected the universal validity of economic theorems. They saw economics as resulting from careful empirical and historical analysis instead of from logic and mathematics. The school also preferred reality, historical, political, and social, as well as economic, to mathematical modelling.

    The historical school held that history was the key source of knowledge about human actions and economic matters, since economics was culture-specific, and hence not generalizable over space and time. The school rejected the universal validity of economic theorems. They saw economics as resulting from careful empirical and historical analysis instead of from logic and mathematics. The school also preferred reality, historical, political, and social, as well as economic, to mathematical modelling.

    Most members of the school were also Sozialpolitiker (social policy advocates), i.e. concerned with social reform and improved conditions for the common man during a period of heavy industrialization. They were more disparagingly referred to as Kathedersozialisten, rendered in English as “socialists of the chair” (compare armchair revolutionary), due to their positions as professors.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Labour_Front
    Following the National Socialist’s Volksgemeinschaft approach towards developing a greater “people’s community”, the DAF expanded or established new social, educational, sports, health, and entertainment programs for German workers via the Strength through Joy, which included factory libraries and gardens, swimming pools, low-priced hot meals, adult education programs, periodic work breaks, physical education, sports facilities, gymnastic training, orchestral music during lunch breaks, free tickets to concerts and opera, and subsidized vacations that saw over 10.3 million Germans signed up by 1938.[2] The DAF financed the building of ocean-going vessels that permitted German workers to pay minimal prices to sail to many foreign destinations. Up to six ocean liners were operating just before the start of World War II. According to the chief of the Associated Press in Berlin, Louis P. Lochner, ticket prices for ocean steamer vessels ranged from twelve to sixteen marks for “a full week on such a steamer”.[3] For those who desired vacations closer to home, the DAF constructed spa and summer resort complexes. The most ambitious was the 4.5 km long Prora complex on Rugen island, which was to have 20,000 beds, and would have been the largest beach resort in the world. It was never completed and the massive complex largely remained an empty shell right through until the 21st century.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy
    The social market economy (SOME; German: soziale Marktwirtschaft), also called Rhine capitalism or social capitalism,[1] is a socioeconomic model combining a free market capitalist economic system alongside social policies that establish both fair competition within the market and a welfare state.[2][3] It is sometimes classified as a coordinated market economy.[4] The social market economy was originally promoted and implemented in West Germany by the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) under Chancellor Konrad Adenauer in 1949.[5] Its origins can be traced to the interwar Freiburg school of economic thought

  125. @SFG
    Yeah, I actually have a lot of respect for the Chinese, we just need to make our own masks and ventilators again. I mean, they're a rising power, what do you expect them to do? What would we have done in the same position?

    If it were me I would have reshored industry with some statement like 'we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed', cut immigration while saying 'immigrants have been the fuel of American expansion but a fire can burn too hot', and so on.

    Then again, I never got elected anything, so...

    I also agree.

    But it is really ironic that Scott McConnell’s stepfather was the late, great Sterling Hayden.

    Here’s Hayden as Gen. Jack D. Ripper in “Dr. Strangelove” explaining the root of the Communist Conspiracy:

  126. @Lot
    I like Chinese people, but they very much need to hear their government insulted.

    The fact they accept totalitarian communism so passively doesn’t reflect well on them.

    Wuhan Depression Update:

    JC Penney, Neiman Marcus, and 24 Hour Fitness bankruptcies expected this week.

    Palisades Center in West Nyack, N.Y, USA’s 11th largest mall, expected to default soon on its $390 million mortgage.

    Diamond Offshore misses loan payment, bankruptcy expected soon, stock down 99% from its high 15 years ago.

    WTI (the main US oil benchmark) under $16. Many regional blends under $10, with Oklahoma Sour at $2.75 a barrel.

    Actual bankruptcy filings I’ve never mentioned:
    Art Van Furniture, largest chain in the midwest with 169 stores
    Food First: owner of 96 casual Italian restaurants.
    Yuma Energy, Texas shale driller

    I like Chinese people, but they very much need to hear their government insulted.

    ^This^

    Chinese casually call their neighbors barbarians all the time, yet they are extremely touchy about the term when it’s applied to their own behavior. The CCP exploits this all the time.

    Explicitly document the barbarism of the CCP in regards to the rest of the world, but also toward its own subjects.

    Documenting the way they treat their Christians would be a good start, if anyone in Hollywood could bring themselves to portray Christians in a positive light. That might be too much to ask, but it would be effective.

    • Replies: @Lot
    “ Documenting the way they treat their Christians would be a good start”

    A few years ago my Uber driver on a longer trip told me to google his name. Some articles came up about him in US newspapers. He was a Chinese Christian with a high profile job, but was fired and evicted when his wife refused to abort her second child. He then started getting more involved with his church, and later was interrogated CCP style and used that as a sign he had to flee.

    Fulan Gong, based on Chinese tai chi traditions, gets the same treatment.
  127. The American Conservative is a publication composed by and for people drowning in their own conceits. McConnell’s attitude doesn’t surprise me.

    Reasons of state or national security should always be a consideration in making policy. It doesn’t mean you should have highly prescriptive notions about what is produced where under ordinary circumstances, but it does mean that you plan to have access to crucial commodities and equipment in emergencies.

  128. @Bragadocious
    It doesn't seem that complicated. Let the Chinese make our t-shirts, sneakers and toasters. But set aside several key categories reserved for domestic production.

    - PPE
    - Steel
    - Critical pharmaceuticals
    - Ventilators

    Trump 4 years ago was talking about steel being a national security item that needed to be wrested away from Chinese companies and he was right. He didn't mention the other 3, and I can't really blame him since no one else except maybe Peter Navarro was thinking about this stuff. (Certainly no Democrats)

    What we are missing isn’t manufacturing (the USA is STILL the largest manufacturer), but the dense economic network that creates new manufacturing sectors. The printing press was a spin-off of the wine press, and could only have been created by a wine-drinking German, not a beer-drinking one.

    I think you haven’t understood how much of the machine-tool industry was driven by clothing manufacture. The diverse manufacturing economy of NYC, now killed by FIRE, started with making machines for clothing and seafaring products. It continued down that line, until it was discovered that industrial land in Manhattan could be more profitably turned into condos. The rail yards on the upper west side were replaced with Trump condos.

  129. @SimpleSong
    LOL, I'm sure the GOP with get around to cracking down on China real soon now. Right after they put the finishing touches on their blitzkreig defeat of abortion and affirmative action.

    Yeah I foresee about 20-40 years of hot air.

    Face it, the U.S. is not a nation or a country, it's an economy. It's a market. You already know what's going to happen. If the government has to choose between one policy that will make a million people $1,000 richer or one guy a billion dollars richer, it's going to be the latter. Because a billionaire can fund a campaign, but a million people with $1000 extra dollars in their pocket likely won't give much to political campaigns, or if they do it will diffuse out to all sorts of random candidates and causes until it all cancels out. It's just the nature of our system.

    Plenty of people are billionaires because of trade with China, either directly or indirectly. The Waltons. Bezos, partially (how much crap on Amazon comes direct from Chinese sellers.) Apple needs Chinese supply chains. So it doesn't really matter if free trade with China hurts most Americans, just like it doesn't really matter that open borders hurts most Americans. There are a handful of very rich people who benefit a lot from the current system, and they care enough to fund campaigns, and they can, and you don't feel as strongly as they do, and even if you did you can't fund campaigns. That's it.

    Oh, for the missing gold box.

  130. @Jack D

    without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government
     
    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc. However, that was a pipe dream. The CPC is not going to willingly relinquish power and Xi has, on the Putin model, decided to rule for life. Millions are imprisoned. Civil liberties in HK are disappearing. There's no reason why we can't disengage from China AND call out their government. In fact, disengagement may be a necessary prerequisite to our ability to properly call them out for their crimes (and vice versa). They are two sides of the same coin.

    China’s a disagreeable bureaucratic-authoritarian state, but it’s current level of abusiveness is 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less severe than was the case 50 years ago. China has been living its best life. You’ve had since 1840 two periods which weren’t suffused with severe and violent disruption – that from about 1871 to about 1916 and that from 1976 to the present. In this particular period, however, you’ve also had rapid improvement in living standards. I wouldn’t begrudge them that; it’s just that the country has all sorts of features which make more production fueling more military power to be quite anxiety provoking. Mr. Derbyshire has discussed some of the ugly features of China’s political culture which he’s observed participating in listservs run by and for dissidents (much less people favorable to the political establishment).

    • Replies: @Jack D

    but it’s current level of abusiveness is 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less severe than was the case 50 years ago.
     
    Yes and compared to life in Pol Pot Cambodia or Stalin's Russia, things are pretty good. But that's a low bar. There are still millions imprisoned for political reasons. No freedom of speech. Etc. Up until Xi they had dialed things down considerably and if you were an ordinary person who was willing to stay out of politics they would more or less leave you alone but Xi has really turned up the heat again and no one is exempt.
  131. @Anon
    Read Eric Striker’s piece on this subject:

    International Finance's Anti-China Crusade
    https://www.unz.com/estriker/international-finances-anti-china-crusade/
     
    The plan by the neocons has been to move manufacturing from China to India. Cheaper labor and India is not particularly friendly with Iran, Syria, Venezuela, and Russia.

    There’s also a bipartisan move in the Senate to move the outsourcing of medical production to Israel:

    https://twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/1250937642100961281?s=20

    We have a lot more leverage over them than we do China.

    Of course it’s still better to make stuff here.

  132. @Reg Cæsar

    It would be nice if we could disengage from China-- end our dependence on Chinese manufacturing
     
    He'd have been pleased with me tonight. I went to Walmart (the only option within forty miles) to get a Norelco beard trimmer, but they were sold out. I could have gotten a Remington, which is two dollars cheaper (10%), but it is made in China.

    I passed. The Norelco is manufactured elsewhere; Indonesia, I think.

    Two other observations this trip-- Some toilet paper is back, but all of the 15-20 colors of bandanas were gone, except plain white.

    And there was a big spot of phlegm in the parking lot near our space. During a viral epidemic. Some things never change. Except for the worse.


    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GXUAAOSwIztc1Joh/s-l640.jpg

    I haven’t been near there is quite the while, but the campus of Great Lakes University-Ulyanov had enough loogies on the sidewalk that one had to do quite the dance to avoid them. College kids, these days!

    Part of this is that if you are the kind of serious cyclist whose bike cost more than the Edmunds valuation of the car I drive, I guess taking a swig from your water bottle and then spitting it out is part of the ritual. Runners are spitters too, and they don’t always aim it or time it with regard to proximity with mere mortal pedestrians around them. Because those of you going out for a walk during The Crisis and are striving to maintain separation outdoors are finding out that runners have the right-of-way, and they cannot slow down.

    The other part is related to that sign, which was intended to restrict the use of “chew” in public. It may not be as much phlegm but oral tobacco drool. With the restrictions on smoking, it seems that oral tobacco use is burgeoning with the university crowd. Yet I have seen someone drooling an smoking at the same time — do people combine oral products with a cigarette?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    ...do people combine oral products with a cigarette?
     
    A cigar, perhaps.



    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/branded_news/16339/production/_101873909_gettyimages-905572.jpg
  133. @Kim

    No matter how much the dictator makes the trains run on time, dictatorship is still a shitty system.
     
    Do you think that democracy is working out well for the people of the United States (admittedly hard to identify who they are supposed to be nowadays)?

    (Personally, I am a fatalist and have no faith that humans have any control over anything they do, at any scale, so - fortunately - I do not have to form an opinion on this matter. But those who believe they can influence such things, well, go for it, I say, and all the best.)

    The difficulty we have is that electoral institutions are a pantomime conducted around a system of rule by interacting sets of cadres. There isn’t some iron law of social relations that’s the problem here. The problem is that our legal-formal institutions are lousy. The general public isn’t perturbed by this so long as the ruin does not have a discernible impact on their mundane life. As for attentive publics, some benefit from the current order, some might like modifications but cannot assemble the necessary force to implement them, and some are thinking inside-the-box just the way the inattentive public does.

    We have a Facebook wall which allows us to see what gliberals and leftoids hold dear (mostly, their worldview is a function of their random hostility and their sense of entitlement) and I’m a participant in a number of fora composed of people who are starboard. There is, if anything, less interest in institutional adjustment than there was 35 years ago, and there was only a modest amount 35 years ago. The left has no interest in procedural-structural matters; they just want what they want. The modal opinion of conservatives on this subject is that the only problems we have are ‘judicial activism’, ‘the administrative state’, ‘big government’ or some combination thereof. The don’t give a damn about measures to help public agencies perform better, nor do they have aught but the most inchoate set of criteria for differentiating between what is a function of the central government, what is a function of particular governments and what is best left to the private sector. And, of course, James Madison et al are regarded in a way similar to Hari Seldon in Isaac Asimov’s Foundation series.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Art the cuck is back! How are your hemorrhoids, BTW? Now we know it’s a full-blown hangout.
  134. Nobody here on Unz is going to work in factory much less allow one to be built in their neighborhood or allow their children to work in one either. LOL.

    People like to blame Big Business but you should really be looking in the mirror when you want to find who is responsible for this mess. Check my previous posts. I argued that 30-40% of all jobs in the USA were non essential. The quarantine proved me right. Many of us do jobs that have little true value. Lawyering. Algorithming. Paper shuffling . Beckying. Real jobs involve creation of goods like toilet paper.

  135. This made me feel good today.

  136. @Anonymous
    Steve you know who's a surprisingly good twitter follow? Mockingbird man Brit Hume.

    He tweets like a man with serious regrets. He sat there and took the $$$ and played the game for all those years and now things are getting pretty dark in America. So it's time to say interesting things on twitter! This is another guy who sounds like a more respectable version of Alex Jones.

    Remember he was on the Comverse Infosys Israel story that was memory holed all those years ago? Israel had backdoored our entire phone system architecture. Then Foxnews dropped it like a hot potato because Ailes was the most blackmailable guy in media right?

    Brit Hume’s modus operandi was in evidence a long time ago when he was the chief henchman of Drew Pearson before turning on him!

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Drew Pearson died in 1969, when Hume was 26 years old. Pearson's consigliere was Jack Anderson, who inherited the column. Anderson's was Les Whitten. Anderson and Whitten were the better part of a generation older than Hume.
  137. @Rosie
    https://media.giphy.com/media/qFduw3J8b0Kwo/giphy.gif

    You do realize that that represents the best America has to offer.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    You do realize that that represents the best America has to offer.
     
    You must be new here. I'm a populist even among populists, so yes I do realize that.

    Anyway, I think lots of people have misunderstood Steve here. It's not that he's worried about the chicoms getting their feelings hurt. It's just that he knows that empty rhetoric, without action, is probably all we'll get. Trump will assume that will be enough, and he'll probably be right given that we have no place else to go.
  138. @J.Ross
    Depends where you're country's at -- the reason you have heard of Korea, let alone rely on and compete with their top-level goods, is because of decades of the best kind of nationally-interested dictatorship. The State is always loved in an emergency and from-the-ashes national development is a kind of long emergency.
    Also, the reason Italians needed help with train schedules (and the reason Krauts turned to street brawling) was commies screwing everything up. Had the commies been shown stunning Pacific vistas from rotor-wing aircraft, the overcorrection would not have been possible.
    Which dictator was it that shot Randy Weaver's wife? Was that Saddam Hussein?

    The problem with “we’ll give our leaders TEMPORARY dictatorial powers during an emergency” is that the emergency somehow never seems to end. We are finding this out now in the US.

    Both Commies and rightists tend to view democracy like a trolley that you ride to its destination (named “POWER”). Once you reach your stop, you get off. The cure for Communism is not right wing dictatorship nor vice versa.

    I missed the part of history where Germany and Italy were ruled by communists before they were ruled by fascists.

    Again I continue to be stunned by the lack of enthusiasm for democracy displayed here. I put this down to the fact that most Americans have never experienced the utter fear that goes with dictatorial rule. One way helicopter rides for your political enemies sounds like good fun until the State decides that YOU are the enemy or maybe one of your family members. You think, I have nothing to fear, I am no Commie. Well maybe you ain’t but maybe they make a mistake and think that you are. Maybe your name is spelled the same as a Commie’s. Maybe you have a jealous rival or business partner who wants to get rid of you and rats you out with a false report. As the helicopter doors open you cry out, “there must be some mistake” but there’s no judge, no jury, no due process, no appeals, so off you go into the wild blue yonder. Enjoy your ride.

    • Replies: @SFG
    The intellectuals cheerleading for dictatorship who somehow figure the regime won't get rid of *them* are silly, I agree.

    I just think we should quit trying to promote democracy around the world and work on fixing it over here.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    If only Stalin knew!
    , @Anonymous
    Trouble is, our current system is functionally identical to the one you attribute to dictatorship, and has been for quite a few decades. Try getting promoted while being incorrect. They don't kill you, they don't have to, they just send you to a closely supervised job. Works just like the old Soviet gulags, but it's more efficient.
    But not efficient enough. We're all getting steadily more poor, and basic infrastructure (political and physical both) is decaying (see van Creveld "Fate of the State" and Copley _Uncivilization_). The current Western systems will fall as did the USSR -- same reason, can't support their populations.
  139. @Anonymous
    McConnell was a pioneer simp. If he knew any Chinese people he'd also know their undisguised delight in pissing all over Euro-American society (not that they have a ton of respect for negroes, mestizos, and the Elizabethan-Americans on their respective reservations/ghettoes). The exception is Chinese Christians who are automatically judged by the rest to be low-class hicks. The one aspect of the West inspiring genuine respect in China is bourgeois status-striving, or money worship more generally. Depriving your kid of meals until she's practiced the Mozart violin death march 100 times per week is the essence of civilized feng shui.

    Westmoreland was right, albeit too limited in his assessment to jungle Asians.

    Uhhhhhh… His wife is chinese.

  140. @Anonymous

    If it were me I would have reshored industry with some statement like ‘we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed’, cut immigration while saying ‘immigrants have been the fuel of American expansion but a fire can burn too hot’, and so on.
     
    This is on the right track.

    Yeah, I actually have a lot of respect for the Chinese, we just need to make our own masks and ventilators again. I mean, they’re a rising power, what do you expect them to do? What would we have done in the same position?
     
    We need to do a whole lot more than just make our own masks and ventilators again though. We need a broader return of US manufacturing: For jobs, national self-esteem, national security, and our sovereignty.

    And if China is a threat as a “rising power,” we need to reshore our manufacturing for that reason alone. We ourselves have made China a rising power by opening our market to them.

    All that aside, immigration restriction is far more important. In part, because it is irreversible.

    Steve seems to have lost interest in it.

    If we can insist that our food has to be grown locally, why can’t we insist that our stuff be manufactured locally?

    In terms of the environment and sustainability, that just makes sense to me.

  141. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    "we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed"

    You lack the proper perspective: from the point of view of TPTB, "their own people"'are not at all hungry, not at all unemployed. Their own people are doing just dandy, and we are definitely not "their" people. And if we are hungry and unemployed, they don't care, and they think it's funny, and they're looking for ways to make it worse.

    Oh sure, I was just saying what my rhetoric would be. Any politician has to be somewhat two-faced; deception is an essential part of statecraft. The point is more that we could frame a nationalist program in a way that would allow us to keep more allies.

  142. @Jack D
    The problem with "we'll give our leaders TEMPORARY dictatorial powers during an emergency" is that the emergency somehow never seems to end. We are finding this out now in the US.

    Both Commies and rightists tend to view democracy like a trolley that you ride to its destination (named "POWER"). Once you reach your stop, you get off. The cure for Communism is not right wing dictatorship nor vice versa.

    I missed the part of history where Germany and Italy were ruled by communists before they were ruled by fascists.

    Again I continue to be stunned by the lack of enthusiasm for democracy displayed here. I put this down to the fact that most Americans have never experienced the utter fear that goes with dictatorial rule. One way helicopter rides for your political enemies sounds like good fun until the State decides that YOU are the enemy or maybe one of your family members. You think, I have nothing to fear, I am no Commie. Well maybe you ain't but maybe they make a mistake and think that you are. Maybe your name is spelled the same as a Commie's. Maybe you have a jealous rival or business partner who wants to get rid of you and rats you out with a false report. As the helicopter doors open you cry out, "there must be some mistake" but there's no judge, no jury, no due process, no appeals, so off you go into the wild blue yonder. Enjoy your ride.

    The intellectuals cheerleading for dictatorship who somehow figure the regime won’t get rid of *them* are silly, I agree.

    I just think we should quit trying to promote democracy around the world and work on fixing it over here.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I just think we should quit trying to promote democracy around the world and work on fixing it over here.

    IOW, you think we should not do something into which we're putting almost no effort at this time.
  143. @Dan Hayes
    Brit Hume's modus operandi was in evidence a long time ago when he was the chief henchman of Drew Pearson before turning on him!

    Drew Pearson died in 1969, when Hume was 26 years old. Pearson’s consigliere was Jack Anderson, who inherited the column. Anderson’s was Les Whitten. Anderson and Whitten were the better part of a generation older than Hume.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  144. @adreadline

    The Norelco is manufactured elsewhere; Indonesia, I think.
     
    You sure? Some of them, at least, then?

    The one I saw was not made in China. I hope when it reappears on the shelf that will still be true.

    My first one, bought in the early ’70s, was probably manufactured in Eindhoven, the hometown of Philips, and site of the Evoluon.

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/evoluon-eindhoven

  145. @anon
    I don't usually post anonymously but this post is so obsequious...

    Generally, on the Corona Virus kerfuffle I think that Mr Sailer has got it completely right and it tallies exactly with my thinking...

    (1) He is saying "I wish I was as certain of anything as many of my commentators are certain of everything".

    (2) References to "Bat Soup", when it has been established that no such thing exists in China, or incessantly calling the thing "the Chinese virus" instead of its proper scientific name, and other childish insults are not a substitute for sober and serious measures to enable the manufacture of essential medical equipment and drugs in our own countries.

    substitutes? no. but theres nothing wrong with prodding the Chinese for their, uh, eccentric tastes. Norm MacDonald, one of Steve’s favorites, has a song about his love of bat on YouTube.

  146. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Pretty much what? The tweet is garbage? I'm old enough to remember when globalism was praised precisely because it lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese out of poverty, and American protectionists were demonized -- and denounced as selfish -- for giving a shit about America and the American worker over others. Imagine that.

    So Steve, instead of supporting this frontlashing against repatriation of manufacturing back to the United States, why don't we actually just do it and not worry about the feelings of people who never gave a shit about us? I certainly am starting to wonder if this site has studied SJW behaviors so much it is starting to mimic them.

    Seriously, it's like the asinine Chinese reactions to 'Free Hong Kong' tweets are forgotten. Or their control of the WHO. Or countless other examples.

    American behavior during disengagement won't be the issue. So what is the real reason for this concern trolling?

    And what about the opioid epidemic? I thought all that fentanyl was dumped on America by the Chinese and we were supposed to blame them for all our overdoses.

    I admit that I can’t keep track of who the bad guys are from month to month. Are the Russians good now? When they were bad I don’t recall anyone worrying about anti-Russian insults or racism.

    Don’t get me started on MAGA hat-wearers. It always seems to be open season on them.

  147. @Bill P

    I like Chinese people, but they very much need to hear their government insulted.
     
    ^This^

    Chinese casually call their neighbors barbarians all the time, yet they are extremely touchy about the term when it's applied to their own behavior. The CCP exploits this all the time.

    Explicitly document the barbarism of the CCP in regards to the rest of the world, but also toward its own subjects.

    Documenting the way they treat their Christians would be a good start, if anyone in Hollywood could bring themselves to portray Christians in a positive light. That might be too much to ask, but it would be effective.

    “ Documenting the way they treat their Christians would be a good start”

    A few years ago my Uber driver on a longer trip told me to google his name. Some articles came up about him in US newspapers. He was a Chinese Christian with a high profile job, but was fired and evicted when his wife refused to abort her second child. He then started getting more involved with his church, and later was interrogated CCP style and used that as a sign he had to flee.

    Fulan Gong, based on Chinese tai chi traditions, gets the same treatment.

  148. @SFG
    The intellectuals cheerleading for dictatorship who somehow figure the regime won't get rid of *them* are silly, I agree.

    I just think we should quit trying to promote democracy around the world and work on fixing it over here.

    I just think we should quit trying to promote democracy around the world and work on fixing it over here.

    IOW, you think we should not do something into which we’re putting almost no effort at this time.

  149. @anon
    I don't usually post anonymously but this post is so obsequious...

    Generally, on the Corona Virus kerfuffle I think that Mr Sailer has got it completely right and it tallies exactly with my thinking...

    (1) He is saying "I wish I was as certain of anything as many of my commentators are certain of everything".

    (2) References to "Bat Soup", when it has been established that no such thing exists in China, or incessantly calling the thing "the Chinese virus" instead of its proper scientific name, and other childish insults are not a substitute for sober and serious measures to enable the manufacture of essential medical equipment and drugs in our own countries.

    Wuhan virus is a perfectly acceptable name, and has plenty of historical precedent in terms of how viruses are named. China virus is a well deserved mockery in response to trivial SJW complaints against this.

    And I assume you name everything by its proper scientific name, such as I don’t like my neighbor’s Canis lupus familiaris shitting in my yard?

    Do you have any other worthless complaints?

  150. I’m not so sure about disengaging from China. It seems to me, that poorer, less civilized people, less happy people, me cheat and steal and do other non first-world things quite a bit but only because they really want to be like the first world. China may have been polluting the environment insanely but only because they want to get to the level where they have California emissions systems.

    China May behave better if they are involved with us then if they are not.

    The European Union reason this way with turkey and while they offered appeasement for far too long, their rationale was effective in the early years.

    So far as bluster versus accomplishing goals are concerned, I think Steve has been doing a great job of not talking about immig- even in the face of provocations from some lunatic left and right people arguing that the current situation shouldn’t impact our globalist tendencies.

    America voted for immigration restriction in the last election very very clearly and at this point even most registered Democrats support it provided that we don’t bluster about it and make it a tribal war between the reds and the Blues. Left alone, this coronavirus will probably do a heck of a lot in the direction of isolationism for the next few years. left to the bluster of politicians and bloggers and Fox news however, the blue team may run to their colors, that’s destroying the almost unanimous perception all Americans have that we should protect our borders a whole lot better.

  151. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Pretty much what? The tweet is garbage? I'm old enough to remember when globalism was praised precisely because it lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese out of poverty, and American protectionists were demonized -- and denounced as selfish -- for giving a shit about America and the American worker over others. Imagine that.

    So Steve, instead of supporting this frontlashing against repatriation of manufacturing back to the United States, why don't we actually just do it and not worry about the feelings of people who never gave a shit about us? I certainly am starting to wonder if this site has studied SJW behaviors so much it is starting to mimic them.

    Seriously, it's like the asinine Chinese reactions to 'Free Hong Kong' tweets are forgotten. Or their control of the WHO. Or countless other examples.

    American behavior during disengagement won't be the issue. So what is the real reason for this concern trolling?

    China Flu is turning the frogs gay.

  152. @utu
    "... needless insults of [...] government and people." - Not needless. Liberal democracy can't do w/o insults. This is the only way people can be mobilized when the rulers decide to go to war. In traditional authoritarian states people are told what to do and they do it. Hate is not necessary. In WWI UK people had to hate the Hun and Americans were propagandized to hate the Jap during WWII. Japanese and German propaganda did not have a comparable level of vitriol and hate towards the people they fought. Portraying yourself as a righteous victim might be a part of it. German and Japanese cultures were based on honor and duty which had no room for victimhood.

    The Japanese whipped up racial hatred towards Europeans in Asian colonies throughout WW2. Their own internal propaganda portrayed Chinese and others as racially inferior.

    • Replies: @utu
    Yes and no. Even from the Wik entry
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_Japan_during_the_Second_Sino-Japanese_War_and_World_War_II
    one can get an idea that the emphasis was different than in American approach. For internal propaganda it was less about vilification of the enemy and more about themselves, cohesion, hard work and sacrifice. Kurosawa was making propaganda films which were mostly about workers not about the enemy.

    "Unlike American propaganda that often focused on the enemy, Japanese wartime "National Policy" Kamishibai usually focused on themes of self-sacrifice for the nation, the heroism of martyrs, or instructional messages such as how to respond to an air-raid warning."

    "Colonialism was presented as a tiny group of colonists living in luxury by placing burdens on Asians; because ties of blood connected them to the Japanese, and Asians had been weakened by colonialism, it was Japan's place to "make men of them again."

    And the propaganda for Chines was very affirmative so they even played down Japanese nationalism.

    " In the early stages of the war with China, so-called "Humanistic war films" such as The Five Scouts attempted to depict the war without nationalism. But with Pearl Harbor, the Home Ministry demanded more patriotism and "national polity themes" – or war themes.[9] Japanese directors of war films set in China had to refrain from direct representations of the Chinese for ideological reasons as well. The risk of alienating the same cultures that the Japanese ostensibly were "liberating" from the yoke of Western colonial oppression was also a powerful deterrent in addition to government pressure."
  153. @JimB
    I think we should form a consortium with Japan and other countries to disengage economically with China over a three year period. Also, halt any further immigration and student exchange. Leave China to consume its own third rate products and boss around India.

    I would agree except that I definitely do not want to see them boss around India or continue to conquer Africa.

    Standing with India is easy enough, but we will have to rewrite the narrative of evil colonialists very very quickly in order to have a chance of standing up to the Chinese in Africa and thereby doing not just a heck of a lot of good for us but a heck of a lot of good for Africans. There’s no way that Africans are better off under the Chinese than under the British.

  154. @utu
    Germans treated Polish POWs no different than French or British POWs. Honor and sense superiority are two separate categories and not mutually exclusive. But I was not talking how soldiers behaved during the war or how POWs were treated because it depended on many factors not just cultural or ideological. I was talking about propaganda and what it took to mobilize people. When Soviet Union attacked Finland it was not necessary to whip up propaganda to vilify Fins and dehumanize them on posters and cartoons as monkeys or some other monsters so Soviet soldiers would be willing to go to war. No, Soviet soldiers were motivated with vodka and barrier troops that were following them and shooting those who did not move forward fast enough.

    Germans treated Polish POWs no different than French or British POWs.

    What about Soviet POW’s? Millions died, most by starvation and disease.

    You are viewing the Germans and the Japanese thru rose colored glasses. They were both plenty racist by any definition.

    Caption: Scourge of Humanity

    This is something the German propaganda dept. printed up for use in Poland. They also printed them in Ukrainian. When I visited Lviv, I looked up old photos of the central square where the lovely Austrian built opera house stands. In the background of the photo you could see a kiosk with posters on it and one of the posters was this one. After the war, the Russians put a big Lenin statue there. Today the original fountain has been restored and no sign of Lenin. Lemberg (Lviv) had a tough 20th century.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  155. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    "we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed"

    You lack the proper perspective: from the point of view of TPTB, "their own people"'are not at all hungry, not at all unemployed. Their own people are doing just dandy, and we are definitely not "their" people. And if we are hungry and unemployed, they don't care, and they think it's funny, and they're looking for ways to make it worse.

    I keep reading about how people are starving and how supermarkets are empty, put aside for the usual out of the way superbad neighborhoods and towns, I do not see anything of the sort.

    And those out of the way neighborhoods and decrepit towns have had empty markets two weeks out of every month since the beginning of time.

    This whole starvation business, and all these smart autistic boys who were have been hoarding canned goods and toilet paper are a laughing stock and ought to be laughed at and mocked at every opportunity.

  156. @Peter Akuleyev
    my overall impression is that aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll)

    I would take you more seriously if you weren't spouting CCP propaganda about "foreign payroll"

    Yes, most ordinary Chinese are pretty thrilled with the dramatic improvements in China over the past 30 years, and that has bought the Communists some good will. Under the surface though a lot of Chinese are disgusted with the corruption and constant interference in people's daily lives. A lof of Chinese see the Communists as heavy handed Beijing imperialists forcing their dialect on everyone (there is a lot of regional pride and identity in China), and the older generation still remembers the Cultural Revolution. A lot of people still detest the Communist Party, and are well aware that China's accomplishments have mostly been despite the Party's interference. I hear a lot of grumbling from entrepreneurs especially - if you are ambitious, China is a very stifling environment to grow a business, and the stress from finding the line between bribing enough officials to stay competitive and going too far and getting a bullet in your head on corruption charges is significant. There is a reason why wealthy Chinese almost all want to leave.

    But it is also true that very few Chinese want China to resemble the US. Chinese don't want US style democracy - they want a Lee Kwan Yew - an enlightened patriotic leader who truly has his country's interests at heart. Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan demonstrate every day that there are alternative and better paths in East Asia, Western liberal democracy is not the only option.

    Yes, most ordinary Chinese are pretty thrilled with the dramatic improvements in China over the past 30 years, and that has bought the Communists some good will.

    Because the Communists have made things so much better than they were 30 years ago under the … umm … Communists.

  157. @Art Deco
    China's a disagreeable bureaucratic-authoritarian state, but it's current level of abusiveness is 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less severe than was the case 50 years ago. China has been living its best life. You've had since 1840 two periods which weren't suffused with severe and violent disruption - that from about 1871 to about 1916 and that from 1976 to the present. In this particular period, however, you've also had rapid improvement in living standards. I wouldn't begrudge them that; it's just that the country has all sorts of features which make more production fueling more military power to be quite anxiety provoking. Mr. Derbyshire has discussed some of the ugly features of China's political culture which he's observed participating in listservs run by and for dissidents (much less people favorable to the political establishment).

    but it’s current level of abusiveness is 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less severe than was the case 50 years ago.

    Yes and compared to life in Pol Pot Cambodia or Stalin’s Russia, things are pretty good. But that’s a low bar. There are still millions imprisoned for political reasons. No freedom of speech. Etc. Up until Xi they had dialed things down considerably and if you were an ordinary person who was willing to stay out of politics they would more or less leave you alone but Xi has really turned up the heat again and no one is exempt.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
    Hardehar. You don't know nothing. More prisoners in the US than in China. And don't tell me that they're not in for political crimes. Being in for victimless crimes is political. Victimizing only the convicted by making senseless abusive laws to keep people in control.

    And anyhow, China just arrested a bunch of "democracy" demonstrators in Hong Kong. Good for China. It's about time. It's like in East Germany. Absolutely crawling with American saboteurs, they had to do something. But restricting immigration with a wall is evil.

    See what I did there?
    , @Art Deco
    There are still millions imprisoned for political reasons.


    An outfit at Birkbeck College estimates the prison population of China at 1.7 million, FWIW. Given China's total population, a prison census of that size composed entirely of common criminals is plausible. I wouldn't have a clue as to the number of political prisoners there might be but it wouldn't surprise me if it were a five-digit number, not a seven digit number. Only an odd single-digit minority are willing to put sweat equity into political activity and the number willing to pay dearly is correspondingly fewer. We're I looking for them, I'd think maybe Turkestan and Tibet would be the place to find them.
  158. @Matra
    The Japanese whipped up racial hatred towards Europeans in Asian colonies throughout WW2. Their own internal propaganda portrayed Chinese and others as racially inferior.

    Yes and no. Even from the Wik entry
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_Japan_during_the_Second_Sino-Japanese_War_and_World_War_II
    one can get an idea that the emphasis was different than in American approach. For internal propaganda it was less about vilification of the enemy and more about themselves, cohesion, hard work and sacrifice. Kurosawa was making propaganda films which were mostly about workers not about the enemy.

    “Unlike American propaganda that often focused on the enemy, Japanese wartime “National Policy” Kamishibai usually focused on themes of self-sacrifice for the nation, the heroism of martyrs, or instructional messages such as how to respond to an air-raid warning.”

    “Colonialism was presented as a tiny group of colonists living in luxury by placing burdens on Asians; because ties of blood connected them to the Japanese, and Asians had been weakened by colonialism, it was Japan’s place to “make men of them again.”

    And the propaganda for Chines was very affirmative so they even played down Japanese nationalism.

    ” In the early stages of the war with China, so-called “Humanistic war films” such as The Five Scouts attempted to depict the war without nationalism. But with Pearl Harbor, the Home Ministry demanded more patriotism and “national polity themes” – or war themes.[9] Japanese directors of war films set in China had to refrain from direct representations of the Chinese for ideological reasons as well. The risk of alienating the same cultures that the Japanese ostensibly were “liberating” from the yoke of Western colonial oppression was also a powerful deterrent in addition to government pressure.”

  159. @SFG
    Yeah, I actually have a lot of respect for the Chinese, we just need to make our own masks and ventilators again. I mean, they're a rising power, what do you expect them to do? What would we have done in the same position?

    If it were me I would have reshored industry with some statement like 'we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed', cut immigration while saying 'immigrants have been the fuel of American expansion but a fire can burn too hot', and so on.

    Then again, I never got elected anything, so...

    But “reshoring” industry is socialist. Got ya there.

  160. @Anonymous

    If it were me I would have reshored industry with some statement like ‘we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed’, cut immigration while saying ‘immigrants have been the fuel of American expansion but a fire can burn too hot’, and so on.
     
    This is on the right track.

    Yeah, I actually have a lot of respect for the Chinese, we just need to make our own masks and ventilators again. I mean, they’re a rising power, what do you expect them to do? What would we have done in the same position?
     
    We need to do a whole lot more than just make our own masks and ventilators again though. We need a broader return of US manufacturing: For jobs, national self-esteem, national security, and our sovereignty.

    And if China is a threat as a “rising power,” we need to reshore our manufacturing for that reason alone. We ourselves have made China a rising power by opening our market to them.

    All that aside, immigration restriction is far more important. In part, because it is irreversible.

    Steve seems to have lost interest in it.

    Steve seems to have lost interest in it.

    He’s probably more worried about dying from COVID-19, which is quite reasonable.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    Is Steve still self-isolating in his closet, surrounded by the glow of his digital instruments, diligently consulting the various graphs and statistics, whilst his instruments emit the em radiation that is damaging the DNA in his cells?
  161. @Anonymous

    If it were me I would have reshored industry with some statement like ‘we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed’, cut immigration while saying ‘immigrants have been the fuel of American expansion but a fire can burn too hot’, and so on.
     
    This is on the right track.

    Yeah, I actually have a lot of respect for the Chinese, we just need to make our own masks and ventilators again. I mean, they’re a rising power, what do you expect them to do? What would we have done in the same position?
     
    We need to do a whole lot more than just make our own masks and ventilators again though. We need a broader return of US manufacturing: For jobs, national self-esteem, national security, and our sovereignty.

    And if China is a threat as a “rising power,” we need to reshore our manufacturing for that reason alone. We ourselves have made China a rising power by opening our market to them.

    All that aside, immigration restriction is far more important. In part, because it is irreversible.

    Steve seems to have lost interest in it.

    But this reshoring thing, don’t you understand? is anti-capitalist and, moreover, tree-hugger. You don’t want to be called a socialist or an environmentalist do you? A fate worse than coronavirus.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    But this reshoring thing, don’t you understand? is anti-capitalist and, moreover, tree-hugger. You don’t want to be called a socialist or an environmentalist do you? A fate worse than coronavirus.
     
    What is anti-capitalist about it?
    , @ben tillman
    Educated people understand the basis for the use of "capitalist" as a pejorative. Read Belloc or Tawney. Perhaps you have already.

    Yes, decentralized economic decisionmaking is the right way to do things, but labeling something "economic" does not exempt that thing from moral or legal scrutiny. The decentralized decisionmaking in a robust economy must be constrained by law and morality.
  162. @BenKenobi
    Ah yes, the peaceful, honest and tolerant Han. We should welcome more of them to our shores.

    “Stupid round-eye! You give your country away ha-ha!”

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c1/7a/b2/c17ab2c6f76b61c9b2e65e29d434f6c1.jpg

    “Stupid round-eye! … ha-ha!”

    I’m white. My eyes aren’t round. They’re narrow and hooded. I guess I’m a chink. (I know this comment is stupid. I just wanted to write “chink”)

  163. @Jack D

    but it’s current level of abusiveness is 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less severe than was the case 50 years ago.
     
    Yes and compared to life in Pol Pot Cambodia or Stalin's Russia, things are pretty good. But that's a low bar. There are still millions imprisoned for political reasons. No freedom of speech. Etc. Up until Xi they had dialed things down considerably and if you were an ordinary person who was willing to stay out of politics they would more or less leave you alone but Xi has really turned up the heat again and no one is exempt.

    Hardehar. You don’t know nothing. More prisoners in the US than in China. And don’t tell me that they’re not in for political crimes. Being in for victimless crimes is political. Victimizing only the convicted by making senseless abusive laws to keep people in control.

    And anyhow, China just arrested a bunch of “democracy” demonstrators in Hong Kong. Good for China. It’s about time. It’s like in East Germany. Absolutely crawling with American saboteurs, they had to do something. But restricting immigration with a wall is evil.

    See what I did there?

    • Replies: @Jack D

    Absolutely crawling with American saboteurs
     
    Yup, here they are:

    http://www.asianews.it/files/img/size3/HK-Gli_arresti.png

    Definitely Americans. Here are their names:

    Leung Yiu-chung, Avery Ng, Lee Cheuk-yan, Albert Ho, Martin Lee, Figo Chan, Jimmy Lai, Sin Chung-kai, Cyd Ho, Au Nok-hin, Margaret Ng, Yeung Sum, Raphael Wong, Leung Kwok-hung, Richard Tsoi.

    All Americans, every one of them.

  164. Hail says: • Website
    @petit bourgeois
    Ask these knuckleheads what a "fascist" is. None of these psuedo-intellectuals can define what a "fascist" is. It literally means whatever the red diaper babies say it means.

    Both "Fascism" and "Marxism" are neo-Hegelian in nature. E.g., seizing the means of production for the good of the nation, or corporatism. Benito seized Olivetti in WWII the same way that Stalin seized agrarian farming of wheat or Mao seized the rice paddies through central economic planning. I've been reading Steve since 2001, and I've never heard a "fascist" call to arms in nearly 20 years.

    Real fascism requires seizing those means to bring the nation out of its backwards nature. But there is a difference: China doesn't make Ferraris or Lamborghinis. They can't even put a monkey into orbit.

    These pinkos also equate Hitler as a "fascist." Germany in 1941 had the same cradle-to-grave welfare programs as modern day Denmark, Netherlands or Sweden. Are they going to equate nationalism socialism of these countries as being fascistict? Methinks not.

    Let's take a look at another element of"Fascism" with a capital "F." You know the kind of "Fascism" espoused by Giovanni Gentile, the philosopher of Fascism. Masculine protest is not a talking point with Steve, e.g. Marcus Garvey marching down the streets of Harlem in full shoulder board uniform with a plumed hat expressing masculine protest. Il Duce did the same thing, to the benefit of all his Raza.

    These people are so freaking stupid they don't even stand up to my sophomoric armchair political analysis.

    Steve: you know you are doing something right when the enemy of a free people call you a fascist (whatever that means). Keep up the good work, comrade.

    I haven’t read the book so IDK if they are calling Steve Sailer a ‘fascist’ directly.

    Maybe Patrick Hermansson or David Lawrence or Joe Mulhall or Simon Murdoch, if one or more of these top twentyfirst-century-fascism-experts is reading, can tell us. Did they discover a smoking-gun that Steve Sailer was a fascist all along?

  165. @SFG
    Steve seems to have lost interest in it.

    He's probably more worried about dying from COVID-19, which is quite reasonable.

    Is Steve still self-isolating in his closet, surrounded by the glow of his digital instruments, diligently consulting the various graphs and statistics, whilst his instruments emit the em radiation that is damaging the DNA in his cells?

  166. @Jack D
    Maybe I'm naive but I always thought that democratic values were self-evident. I am rather shocked by the hostility I see here to the thought that the Chinese might someday, God forbid, choose their own rulers. In fact, I wonder whether the hostility is not to the thought of "Chinese democracy" but toward democracy in general. I think this hostility goes well beyond "It's none of our business" to "I secretly admire dictators."

    I'm with Churchill on this - democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others. Democracy seems capable of producing leaders who are just as shitty as ones who take power without benefit of elections. The difference is that in a democracy you can get rid of the guy after a few years where under dictatorship you are stuck with him until he dies. And the longer he sticks around, the more corrupt and autocratic the system becomes. China, until recently, didn't have a democracy (to say the least) but at least they (in the post-Mao era) had a system of planned succession, but with Xi they are back to the dictator for life scheme. No matter how much the dictator makes the trains run on time, dictatorship is still a shitty system.

    I’m with Churchill on this – democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others.

    Democracy has only been in wide use globally for a bit more than 100 years. Not enough data to make this claim. There’s a lot of ruin in a nation and 100 years isn’t enough time for it to play out.

    The UK in the time from when Churchill said that to now has declined precipitously. The UK will be a majority non-white country in less than 50 years depending on whose estimates you believe. Churchill (one of history’s more over-rated people) was talking nonsense.

    The difference is that in a democracy you can get rid of the guy after a few years where under dictatorship you are stuck with him until he dies.

    Democracy and dictatorship aren’t the only two options.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The dictator is supposed to resign when the crisis that brought him to power is over. That was how the Romans, who created the institution, understood it. Of course, that rarely happens.

    (The posthumous reputation of Franco and Pinochet would be much higher if they had stepped down in timely manner. Pinochet waited 20 years before finally resigning. Franco never did at all.)
  167. Chinese Communists have a helluva lot more respect for basic property rights than ANY western government.

    https://webworks.typepad.com/.a/6a00d834632be569e2017ee59b3a3d970d-320wi

  168. @CCR
    This is exactly what will happen.

    This is exactly what will happen.

    As far as i can tell … nothing is going to happen.

    This whole episode has been a giant end-to-end rebuke of globalist ideology and our globalist elite. Their ideology not only brought the crisis on quickly, but it revealed that were not only grossly incompetent in not being prepared for the obviously foreseeable consequences of their ideology, but would stick with their tired mantras, decrying quaratine and crying racism … even as the crisis was upon us

    It’s not the corporate wing of the GOP, it’s the entire establishment that is adamant in its refusal to do any assessment. Has anyone seen anything? Anything at all that indicates even … questioning?

    Minoritarian globalism is simply “who we are” and nationalists who want to just go about living their lives with their own people, culture, traditions are not just wrong, but evil–Nazis!

    Minoritarian globalism is simply a new religion. Some combination of Jewish ethnic resentments and Christian universalism. It has it’s sacred scriptural narratives–the Holocaust and American slavery (and colonialism in Europe). It has saints–minorities, immigrants, women, various sorts of queers–and devils–deplorable straight white flyover country gentiles. And most importantly, it has salvation–though belief. If you *believe* and think the right things, then you are virtuous and are saved.

    As much as i’d like to think this will be the dawn of a new world … i don’t believe it.

    Trump is negotiating … for higher oil prices! And making sure there are temporary visas available so we don’t have “crops rotting in the fields.” He’ll be back to making sure there are plenty of H-1Bs soon enough as business “needs people”. There’s not even talk about a moratorium and as soon as flights are available refugees and immigrants will be pouring in. And Trump is the “nationalist” candidate!

  169. @Art Deco
    The difficulty we have is that electoral institutions are a pantomime conducted around a system of rule by interacting sets of cadres. There isn't some iron law of social relations that's the problem here. The problem is that our legal-formal institutions are lousy. The general public isn't perturbed by this so long as the ruin does not have a discernible impact on their mundane life. As for attentive publics, some benefit from the current order, some might like modifications but cannot assemble the necessary force to implement them, and some are thinking inside-the-box just the way the inattentive public does.

    We have a Facebook wall which allows us to see what gliberals and leftoids hold dear (mostly, their worldview is a function of their random hostility and their sense of entitlement) and I'm a participant in a number of fora composed of people who are starboard. There is, if anything, less interest in institutional adjustment than there was 35 years ago, and there was only a modest amount 35 years ago. The left has no interest in procedural-structural matters; they just want what they want. The modal opinion of conservatives on this subject is that the only problems we have are 'judicial activism', 'the administrative state', 'big government' or some combination thereof. The don't give a damn about measures to help public agencies perform better, nor do they have aught but the most inchoate set of criteria for differentiating between what is a function of the central government, what is a function of particular governments and what is best left to the private sector. And, of course, James Madison et al are regarded in a way similar to Hari Seldon in Isaac Asimov's Foundation series.

    Art the cuck is back! How are your hemorrhoids, BTW? Now we know it’s a full-blown hangout.

  170. “Pretty Much …”

    Your typical cagey self, Mr. Sailer. Why not actually make a post about what you specifically agree and disagree with the tweet?

  171. GOP using demagogy to win elections, while bowing to big business

    This is a description of literally every election we’ve had over the last several decades.

  172. @obwandiyag
    Hardehar. You don't know nothing. More prisoners in the US than in China. And don't tell me that they're not in for political crimes. Being in for victimless crimes is political. Victimizing only the convicted by making senseless abusive laws to keep people in control.

    And anyhow, China just arrested a bunch of "democracy" demonstrators in Hong Kong. Good for China. It's about time. It's like in East Germany. Absolutely crawling with American saboteurs, they had to do something. But restricting immigration with a wall is evil.

    See what I did there?

    Absolutely crawling with American saboteurs

    Yup, here they are:

    Definitely Americans. Here are their names:

    Leung Yiu-chung, Avery Ng, Lee Cheuk-yan, Albert Ho, Martin Lee, Figo Chan, Jimmy Lai, Sin Chung-kai, Cyd Ho, Au Nok-hin, Margaret Ng, Yeung Sum, Raphael Wong, Leung Kwok-hung, Richard Tsoi.

    All Americans, every one of them.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Not Americans, but all native Hong Kong people. In the context of domestic PRC propaganda, this is important.
  173. @Anonymous
    Steve you know who's a surprisingly good twitter follow? Mockingbird man Brit Hume.

    He tweets like a man with serious regrets. He sat there and took the $$$ and played the game for all those years and now things are getting pretty dark in America. So it's time to say interesting things on twitter! This is another guy who sounds like a more respectable version of Alex Jones.

    Remember he was on the Comverse Infosys Israel story that was memory holed all those years ago? Israel had backdoored our entire phone system architecture. Then Foxnews dropped it like a hot potato because Ailes was the most blackmailable guy in media right?

    Brit Hume is closing in on 80. He knows the score on everything that’s happened in D.C. for the last 50 years. And he seems like a basically good guy.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  174. Anonymous[169] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dan Hayes
    The United States is remarkedly in the same position as Britain was in the early 20th Century as it let itself became engaged in a senseless world war that eventually led to the dissolution of its empire.

    The United States is remarkedly in the same position as Britain was in the early 20th Century as it let itself became engaged in a senseless world war that eventually led to the dissolution of its empire.

    Where is the similarity in the United States? You mean the US letting itself become engaged in the Jews’ conquest of the Middle East?

    • Thanks: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Where is the similarity in the United States? You mean the US letting itself become engaged in the Jews’ conquest of the Middle East?

    The sum of land held by Israel today exceeds that held in 1949 by about 2,000 sq miles, or the equivalent of two American counties of average size. The total Arab resident population of these holdings is around 625,000, just north of the population of Port Said on the Suez Canal. If their object has been 'conquest of the Middle East', they've been planing the door with an eraser the last 70 years.

    Every square foot of this territory was acquired in wars the Arab parties wanted, and the supposed representatives of the Arab residents therein have on three separate occasions over a period of 52 years rejected cession of the territories to an Arab authority and on two occasions rejected devolution with respect to the territories, because such settlements would include something they don't want: Jews living next door in a state of prosperity. The most recent such rejection was in 2008.
  175. Anonymous[169] • Disclaimer says:
    @obwandiyag
    But this reshoring thing, don't you understand? is anti-capitalist and, moreover, tree-hugger. You don't want to be called a socialist or an environmentalist do you? A fate worse than coronavirus.

    But this reshoring thing, don’t you understand? is anti-capitalist and, moreover, tree-hugger. You don’t want to be called a socialist or an environmentalist do you? A fate worse than coronavirus.

    What is anti-capitalist about it?

  176. Anonymous[219] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government
     
    No amount of insults to Xi and his dictatorial government would be too much. There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc. However, that was a pipe dream. The CPC is not going to willingly relinquish power and Xi has, on the Putin model, decided to rule for life. Millions are imprisoned. Civil liberties in HK are disappearing. There's no reason why we can't disengage from China AND call out their government. In fact, disengagement may be a necessary prerequisite to our ability to properly call them out for their crimes (and vice versa). They are two sides of the same coin.

    There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc.

    I don’t think having a less dictatorial system would help China in terms of favorability among Americans, especially if it made their economic growth and strength even greater. It didn’t help the Japanese during the 80s when they peaked, despite Japan being a democracy and US ally. Anti-Japan sentiment was higher in the 80s than anti-China sentiment is now, and pundits were forecasting an inevitable war between the US and Japan in the 90s. It seems more a function of perceived economic strength. A less dictatorial China that continued gaining economic strength would be perceived more unfavorably by the US than a dictatorial China that stagnated and declined economically.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    I don't think our relationship with China would be much different if they were controlled by the KMT instead, or were some multiparty democracy. Maybe Taiwan would be part of China again if that were the case and that'd remove a potential collision point, but in terms of economic competition, mutual espionage, etc, we're two big powers, we will collide. That's just life.
    , @Anonymous

    I don’t think having a less dictatorial system would help China in terms of favorability among Americans, especially if it made their economic growth and strength even greater.
     
    If China’s economic growth and strength becomes greater, is it good for Americans? Is it good for Jews?
  177. anon[157] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Offshoring labor intensive work makes a lot of sense but it was overdone and left us vulnerable. We can't even produce PPE in the midst of an epidemic because we've lost much of our manufacturing capability. And labor intensive is another way of saying "creates a lot of jobs". Is it really an improvement that the Norma Rae's of 2020 don't have jobs at the mill anymore, if the alternative is that they live on disability and take opiates? It would be nice if we all could do high value work like writing software for Boeing (oops) but some people just don't have the intellect so it's either tend to the loom or no job at all.

    Unions were a big part of the problem because they created an "us vs. them" attitude. Watch the "American Factory" documentary, where they contrast the attitude of the workers in China vs. the US. The Chinese workers are psychologically invested in their employer and want to see it succeed - they know that its success is their success. The American workers whine and kvetch like surly teenagers and view their employer as their enemy. Little wonder that the suits were glad to close their US factories, especially the unionized ones.

    Norma Rae should be in some reasonably paying service job. Or making carpet in Dalton, Ga and shopping at Walmart.

    The point being is not only was her job offshored, but we imported unlimited unskilled labor, driving down wages her potential wages.

    There are lots of difficulties in raising standards of living in a closed economy. Imports of goods frees up constraints on one factor of production (labor), which COULD have reduced the pressure for open borders. But it was all overdone.

    And furthermore, before some big ass reform is implemented, people need to know that or remember that the status quo didn’t develop in a vacuum. Market forces which included individual preferences, drove all this. That the market forces were allowed to run amok needs to be addressed.

    Right now we have advantages that weren’t available in 1980. Among them record low cost of capital. And energy independence. Oil price fed inflation aka stagflation drove a lot of it. So it can be done more or less intelligently. But current sentiment can be directionally right but won’t help without at least modest nuance regarding its complexity.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Imports of goods frees up constraints on one factor of production (labor), which COULD have reduced the pressure for open borders.
     
    Could you please explain what is meant in both these clauses?
  178. @Anonymous

    If it were me I would have reshored industry with some statement like ‘we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed’, cut immigration while saying ‘immigrants have been the fuel of American expansion but a fire can burn too hot’, and so on.
     
    This is on the right track.

    Yeah, I actually have a lot of respect for the Chinese, we just need to make our own masks and ventilators again. I mean, they’re a rising power, what do you expect them to do? What would we have done in the same position?
     
    We need to do a whole lot more than just make our own masks and ventilators again though. We need a broader return of US manufacturing: For jobs, national self-esteem, national security, and our sovereignty.

    And if China is a threat as a “rising power,” we need to reshore our manufacturing for that reason alone. We ourselves have made China a rising power by opening our market to them.

    All that aside, immigration restriction is far more important. In part, because it is irreversible.

    Steve seems to have lost interest in it.

    All that aside, immigration restriction is far more important. In part, because it is irreversible.

    Bingo! Spot on 394.

    As entertaining as these Covid-19 debates are … big, picture, this virus does not matter.

    And as much as i’d push for cutting out China and on to a “made in America” industrial policy, if we get that and then the response is waving in the rest of Central America and millions of Chinese engineers to make the factories run, then we are much worse off than we are now.

    In contrast a simple final *end* to immigration and we can eventually have a decent nation even if we don’t get everything squared away right away.

    In the end, what matters to your nation–what makes your nation, and determines the quality of your nation–is the genes and culture of the people you share it with.

  179. @Peter Akuleyev
    Trump threw up some fairly meaningless tariffs. Much like the "Wall", a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing, and not changing the facts on the ground. Really disengaging from China would require cooperation from American business leaders and insisting America's business partners disengage as well. That requires leadership, persuasion skills, long term planning and perseverance, none of which are particular strengths of Mr. Trump.

    Thank you for posting, I was really missing out lately on your worthless drivel.

  180. @indocon
    GOP has been and will continue to be a party of whores for big business and big money.

    GOP has been and will continue to be a party of whores for big business and big money.

    But it’s also–voters–the party of productive, normal, core Americans.

    Our only shot is to push out the whores and try and make it represent our interests first.

  181. @anon
    Norma Rae should be in some reasonably paying service job. Or making carpet in Dalton, Ga and shopping at Walmart.

    The point being is not only was her job offshored, but we imported unlimited unskilled labor, driving down wages her potential wages.

    There are lots of difficulties in raising standards of living in a closed economy. Imports of goods frees up constraints on one factor of production (labor), which COULD have reduced the pressure for open borders. But it was all overdone.

    And furthermore, before some big ass reform is implemented, people need to know that or remember that the status quo didn't develop in a vacuum. Market forces which included individual preferences, drove all this. That the market forces were allowed to run amok needs to be addressed.

    Right now we have advantages that weren't available in 1980. Among them record low cost of capital. And energy independence. Oil price fed inflation aka stagflation drove a lot of it. So it can be done more or less intelligently. But current sentiment can be directionally right but won't help without at least modest nuance regarding its complexity.

    Imports of goods frees up constraints on one factor of production (labor), which COULD have reduced the pressure for open borders.

    Could you please explain what is meant in both these clauses?

    • Replies: @anon
    OK. Import cheap, labor intensive stuff. Export expensive stuff that has lower labor inputs. How is that not good? You use your limited workforce to make expensive stuff instead of cheap stuff.

    So, if you can do the above, there is less reason to solve your labor constraint by importing labor.

    Import (cheap) stuff, not people
  182. @Jack D
    The problem with "we'll give our leaders TEMPORARY dictatorial powers during an emergency" is that the emergency somehow never seems to end. We are finding this out now in the US.

    Both Commies and rightists tend to view democracy like a trolley that you ride to its destination (named "POWER"). Once you reach your stop, you get off. The cure for Communism is not right wing dictatorship nor vice versa.

    I missed the part of history where Germany and Italy were ruled by communists before they were ruled by fascists.

    Again I continue to be stunned by the lack of enthusiasm for democracy displayed here. I put this down to the fact that most Americans have never experienced the utter fear that goes with dictatorial rule. One way helicopter rides for your political enemies sounds like good fun until the State decides that YOU are the enemy or maybe one of your family members. You think, I have nothing to fear, I am no Commie. Well maybe you ain't but maybe they make a mistake and think that you are. Maybe your name is spelled the same as a Commie's. Maybe you have a jealous rival or business partner who wants to get rid of you and rats you out with a false report. As the helicopter doors open you cry out, "there must be some mistake" but there's no judge, no jury, no due process, no appeals, so off you go into the wild blue yonder. Enjoy your ride.

    If only Stalin knew!

  183. @Jack D

    but it’s current level of abusiveness is 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less severe than was the case 50 years ago.
     
    Yes and compared to life in Pol Pot Cambodia or Stalin's Russia, things are pretty good. But that's a low bar. There are still millions imprisoned for political reasons. No freedom of speech. Etc. Up until Xi they had dialed things down considerably and if you were an ordinary person who was willing to stay out of politics they would more or less leave you alone but Xi has really turned up the heat again and no one is exempt.

    There are still millions imprisoned for political reasons.

    An outfit at Birkbeck College estimates the prison population of China at 1.7 million, FWIW. Given China’s total population, a prison census of that size composed entirely of common criminals is plausible. I wouldn’t have a clue as to the number of political prisoners there might be but it wouldn’t surprise me if it were a five-digit number, not a seven digit number. Only an odd single-digit minority are willing to put sweat equity into political activity and the number willing to pay dearly is correspondingly fewer. We’re I looking for them, I’d think maybe Turkestan and Tibet would be the place to find them.

  184. @Anonymous

    There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc.
     
    I don't think having a less dictatorial system would help China in terms of favorability among Americans, especially if it made their economic growth and strength even greater. It didn't help the Japanese during the 80s when they peaked, despite Japan being a democracy and US ally. Anti-Japan sentiment was higher in the 80s than anti-China sentiment is now, and pundits were forecasting an inevitable war between the US and Japan in the 90s. It seems more a function of perceived economic strength. A less dictatorial China that continued gaining economic strength would be perceived more unfavorably by the US than a dictatorial China that stagnated and declined economically.

    I don’t think our relationship with China would be much different if they were controlled by the KMT instead, or were some multiparty democracy. Maybe Taiwan would be part of China again if that were the case and that’d remove a potential collision point, but in terms of economic competition, mutual espionage, etc, we’re two big powers, we will collide. That’s just life.

  185. @Jack D

    Absolutely crawling with American saboteurs
     
    Yup, here they are:

    http://www.asianews.it/files/img/size3/HK-Gli_arresti.png

    Definitely Americans. Here are their names:

    Leung Yiu-chung, Avery Ng, Lee Cheuk-yan, Albert Ho, Martin Lee, Figo Chan, Jimmy Lai, Sin Chung-kai, Cyd Ho, Au Nok-hin, Margaret Ng, Yeung Sum, Raphael Wong, Leung Kwok-hung, Richard Tsoi.

    All Americans, every one of them.

    Not Americans, but all native Hong Kong people. In the context of domestic PRC propaganda, this is important.

  186. Anonymous[169] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    There was a time when I thought that China would evolve toward a less dictatorial system as they developed economically, as did Taiwan, S. Korea, etc.
     
    I don't think having a less dictatorial system would help China in terms of favorability among Americans, especially if it made their economic growth and strength even greater. It didn't help the Japanese during the 80s when they peaked, despite Japan being a democracy and US ally. Anti-Japan sentiment was higher in the 80s than anti-China sentiment is now, and pundits were forecasting an inevitable war between the US and Japan in the 90s. It seems more a function of perceived economic strength. A less dictatorial China that continued gaining economic strength would be perceived more unfavorably by the US than a dictatorial China that stagnated and declined economically.

    I don’t think having a less dictatorial system would help China in terms of favorability among Americans, especially if it made their economic growth and strength even greater.

    If China’s economic growth and strength becomes greater, is it good for Americans? Is it good for Jews?

  187. @SimpleSong
    LOL, I'm sure the GOP with get around to cracking down on China real soon now. Right after they put the finishing touches on their blitzkreig defeat of abortion and affirmative action.

    Yeah I foresee about 20-40 years of hot air.

    Face it, the U.S. is not a nation or a country, it's an economy. It's a market. You already know what's going to happen. If the government has to choose between one policy that will make a million people $1,000 richer or one guy a billion dollars richer, it's going to be the latter. Because a billionaire can fund a campaign, but a million people with $1000 extra dollars in their pocket likely won't give much to political campaigns, or if they do it will diffuse out to all sorts of random candidates and causes until it all cancels out. It's just the nature of our system.

    Plenty of people are billionaires because of trade with China, either directly or indirectly. The Waltons. Bezos, partially (how much crap on Amazon comes direct from Chinese sellers.) Apple needs Chinese supply chains. So it doesn't really matter if free trade with China hurts most Americans, just like it doesn't really matter that open borders hurts most Americans. There are a handful of very rich people who benefit a lot from the current system, and they care enough to fund campaigns, and they can, and you don't feel as strongly as they do, and even if you did you can't fund campaigns. That's it.

    That’s pretty much the situation, SS. It means, and has meant, the end of the post-war America that those of us who are long enough in the tooth can remember. And that is a damned shame.

  188. @obwandiyag
    But this reshoring thing, don't you understand? is anti-capitalist and, moreover, tree-hugger. You don't want to be called a socialist or an environmentalist do you? A fate worse than coronavirus.

    Educated people understand the basis for the use of “capitalist” as a pejorative. Read Belloc or Tawney. Perhaps you have already.

    Yes, decentralized economic decisionmaking is the right way to do things, but labeling something “economic” does not exempt that thing from moral or legal scrutiny. The decentralized decisionmaking in a robust economy must be constrained by law and morality.

  189. anon[157] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Imports of goods frees up constraints on one factor of production (labor), which COULD have reduced the pressure for open borders.
     
    Could you please explain what is meant in both these clauses?

    OK. Import cheap, labor intensive stuff. Export expensive stuff that has lower labor inputs. How is that not good? You use your limited workforce to make expensive stuff instead of cheap stuff.

    So, if you can do the above, there is less reason to solve your labor constraint by importing labor.

    Import (cheap) stuff, not people

  190. @Inquiring Mind
    I haven't been near there is quite the while, but the campus of Great Lakes University-Ulyanov had enough loogies on the sidewalk that one had to do quite the dance to avoid them. College kids, these days!

    Part of this is that if you are the kind of serious cyclist whose bike cost more than the Edmunds valuation of the car I drive, I guess taking a swig from your water bottle and then spitting it out is part of the ritual. Runners are spitters too, and they don't always aim it or time it with regard to proximity with mere mortal pedestrians around them. Because those of you going out for a walk during The Crisis and are striving to maintain separation outdoors are finding out that runners have the right-of-way, and they cannot slow down.

    The other part is related to that sign, which was intended to restrict the use of "chew" in public. It may not be as much phlegm but oral tobacco drool. With the restrictions on smoking, it seems that oral tobacco use is burgeoning with the university crowd. Yet I have seen someone drooling an smoking at the same time -- do people combine oral products with a cigarette?

    …do people combine oral products with a cigarette?

    A cigar, perhaps.

  191. @ScarletNumber
    Maybe he is referring to the chink in his armor.

    A Japanese guy on a trampoline. A little nip in the air.

  192. @Rosie
    https://media.giphy.com/media/qFduw3J8b0Kwo/giphy.gif

    Perfect. Just perfect.

    Even a stopped clock is right at least once a day.
    This gif should be embedded in every comment thread.

  193. https://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db/read.php%3fidx=7333

    Lovely culture. Definitely not worth insulting, would be totally needless. (Nsfw)
    Maybe this wont sink in though for the pro-abortion swpl cuck audience, maybe something that would resonate more are videos of dogs being boiled alive in the Chinese wet markets. Yeah that happens in your beloved Communist Paradise too. Not going to link to those but trust me they are out there. Just a lovely, lovely culture.

    Some Sinophilic commenters here seem to be conflating the free speech issue with advocating regime change or invasion or something. A bit confusing.

    Regarding the “why do you care about China’s government” comments, it’s pretty unempathetic to wish tyranny on anyone. Ironic, considering the CCP lovers tend to also be the corona-panickers, accusing us of sacrificing elderly bodies to The Economy. But then they turn around and justify the CCP practices by way of the Chinese Economy. Lol

    Anyway, a selfish Randian reason we as a people should care about the CCP is because the more powerful and successful the Chinese tyranny becomes, the more hopefull OUR would-be tyrants become that they can pull the same shit here. Especially because American companies like Google are the ones building the tyrants toolkits for export. Do you guys really not see the start of this today? I thought that was a regular topic. Oh, nevermind, I get it, the 1984 analogies are just cutesy jokes, and we actually REALLY believe that Google fucking with search results are rogue lone wolf engineers. Totally.

    So look for everyones benefit, I hope the Chinese people get a better, more humane government; the Taiwanese are the good guys in my book (why does this even need to be defended?). Fuck the CCP, and anyone who supports them is an idiot or a traitor in my humble opinion.

    I would be willing to bet unless we drastically change course wrt China, that in under 20 years, the CCP feels bold enough and protected enough to start ‘taking out’ its critics/enemies overseas in western countries by means of suspicious accidents or unique sudden medical conditions.

    • Replies: @Daemon
    Lad, your rulers dont need the chinese to pull that kind of shit where you are. All they need is a highly docile, complacent and low IQ population with selective memories willing to go along with whatever they say. None of this requires the chinese whatsoever.
  194. @Bucky
    Actually, the pandemic will accelerate the trend towards Vietnam among other destinations.

    If anyone remembers, the whole point of the TPP was to build an anti-China trading Bloc.

    N95 mask production still won't be here. It will be in Vietnam, Taiwan, and other friendly countries which are anti-China.

    Getting manufacturing back to our country would be wonderful but I also doubt it will happen. A conservative columnist in our local newspaper talked up bringing back pharmaceuticals … to North America. He then proceeded to talk up the virtues of the Mexican worker. I was disgusted but cannot say I was surprised. No one wants to pay a fair price for American labor or American goods who is part of our elite. They demand more for less as an automatic right.

  195. @inertial
    Needless insults? No. But how about necessary insults?

    We absolutely must insult, shame, and ridicule Chinese people for their bug-chasing eating habits. Otherwise, how will they change them?

    What business is it of ours?

    Close the borders, end immigration, and the Chinese–and all other foreigners–can choose their own cuisine, no harm.

  196. @SFG
    Yeah, I actually have a lot of respect for the Chinese, we just need to make our own masks and ventilators again. I mean, they're a rising power, what do you expect them to do? What would we have done in the same position?

    If it were me I would have reshored industry with some statement like 'we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed', cut immigration while saying 'immigrants have been the fuel of American expansion but a fire can burn too hot', and so on.

    Then again, I never got elected anything, so...

    If it were me I would have reshored industry with some statement like ‘we appreciate our allies, but our own people are hungry and unemployed’, cut immigration while saying ‘immigrants have been the fuel of American expansion but a fire can burn too hot’, and so on.

    Yes. It’s almost like there was a concerted effort to discredit patriotic populism by encouraging the most unqualified, inflammatory, and ineffective candidate possible, but one who happened to be a New York figure involved with mafia and Jewish power circles and enmeshed in international banking and real estate. One who could lie reflexively and, to the desperate rubes, convincingly. One who would demonstrate no real understanding or preservation of the historic American constitutional republic while claiming to defend it.

    It remains to be seen which of national populism or global oligarchy benefits from this crisis.

  197. @Dave Pinsen
    As Ian Fletcher put it, China did to the U.S. what the U.S. did to Britain a hundred years before.

    Maybe it started with Britain’s theft of Chinese intellectual property in 1848 regarding tea cultivation, which was then a Chinese monopoly. Perfidious Albion…

    “In 1848, the British East India Company sent Robert Fortune on a trip to China’s interior, an area forbidden to foreigners. Fortune’s mission was to steal the secrets of tea horticulture and manufacturing. The Scotsman donned a disguise and headed into the Wu Si Shan hills in a bold act of corporate espionage.”

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-great-british-tea-heist-9866709/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The British also sneaked rubber plants out of Brazil to plant them in their east Asian colonies, breaking the Brazilian monopoly on rubber production. Brazilians are still sore about this today.

    Porcelain, another great Chinese secret, was never successfully stolen by westerners. They had to figure it out for themselves, which was probably a good thing, as they ended up developing better varieties than the Chinese.
    , @Joe Stalin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZpIBfBr4UI

    Now the Chinese and Indians simply send over H1Bs to the USA to get IP and instead of calling it industrial espionage it is referred to euphemistically by business interests as "brain circulation."
  198. Anonymous[499] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    The problem with "we'll give our leaders TEMPORARY dictatorial powers during an emergency" is that the emergency somehow never seems to end. We are finding this out now in the US.

    Both Commies and rightists tend to view democracy like a trolley that you ride to its destination (named "POWER"). Once you reach your stop, you get off. The cure for Communism is not right wing dictatorship nor vice versa.

    I missed the part of history where Germany and Italy were ruled by communists before they were ruled by fascists.

    Again I continue to be stunned by the lack of enthusiasm for democracy displayed here. I put this down to the fact that most Americans have never experienced the utter fear that goes with dictatorial rule. One way helicopter rides for your political enemies sounds like good fun until the State decides that YOU are the enemy or maybe one of your family members. You think, I have nothing to fear, I am no Commie. Well maybe you ain't but maybe they make a mistake and think that you are. Maybe your name is spelled the same as a Commie's. Maybe you have a jealous rival or business partner who wants to get rid of you and rats you out with a false report. As the helicopter doors open you cry out, "there must be some mistake" but there's no judge, no jury, no due process, no appeals, so off you go into the wild blue yonder. Enjoy your ride.

    Trouble is, our current system is functionally identical to the one you attribute to dictatorship, and has been for quite a few decades. Try getting promoted while being incorrect. They don’t kill you, they don’t have to, they just send you to a closely supervised job. Works just like the old Soviet gulags, but it’s more efficient.
    But not efficient enough. We’re all getting steadily more poor, and basic infrastructure (political and physical both) is decaying (see van Creveld “Fate of the State” and Copley _Uncivilization_). The current Western systems will fall as did the USSR — same reason, can’t support their populations.

  199. @Jack D
    Maybe I'm naive but I always thought that democratic values were self-evident. I am rather shocked by the hostility I see here to the thought that the Chinese might someday, God forbid, choose their own rulers. In fact, I wonder whether the hostility is not to the thought of "Chinese democracy" but toward democracy in general. I think this hostility goes well beyond "It's none of our business" to "I secretly admire dictators."

    I'm with Churchill on this - democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others. Democracy seems capable of producing leaders who are just as shitty as ones who take power without benefit of elections. The difference is that in a democracy you can get rid of the guy after a few years where under dictatorship you are stuck with him until he dies. And the longer he sticks around, the more corrupt and autocratic the system becomes. China, until recently, didn't have a democracy (to say the least) but at least they (in the post-Mao era) had a system of planned succession, but with Xi they are back to the dictator for life scheme. No matter how much the dictator makes the trains run on time, dictatorship is still a shitty system.

    dictatorship produces the best(singapore) and worst(mao’s china) governance. Dictatorship just means the plebes can’t vote. Whether that is good or bad depends who the plebes are and who the dictator is.

  200. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    McConnell:

    It would be nice if we could disengage from China-- end our dependence on Chinese manufacturing-- without a lot of needless insults of the Chinese government and people.
     
    Needless insults? Is that possible?

    Any insults the Chinese are getting are entirely deserved—and are also a signal to the domestic douchebag “big business complicit”: You’re on a slippery slope.

    https://twitter.com/DVLiberatore/status/1247020094594732035

    For future reference: the two original tweets (@DVLiberatore went private 4/21).

    [MORE]

  201. Anonymous[143] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    As Ian Fletcher put it, China did to the U.S. what the U.S. did to Britain a hundred years before.
  202. @utu
    "American workers whine and kvetch like surly teenagers and view their employer as their enemy" - Viewing employer as an enemy was just a response to how workers were viewed by employers. Unions were only a minor part of the equation. They did not have a proactive power. Their power was only negative. Stakes were higher in America because losing a job in America was like losing your life. No insurance, meager or nonexistent unemployment benefits followed by eviction from your apartment. And you are despised nobody loser. America among Western countries is more than anybody a homo homini lupus est culture. It does not have to be so as you look at other countries like Germany where the relationship between unions and employers is productive and much less adversarial, but it must be so because this is what America is.

    …losing a job in America was like losing your life. No insurance, meager or nonexistent unemployment benefits followed by eviction from your apartment. And you are [a] despised nobody loser. America among Western countries is more than anybody a homo homini lupus est culture.

    You seem to get your ideas about America before the advent of the welfare state entirely from lefty propaganda. You seem to know nothing of the role played by private charity.

    I take it you don’t live here, and have no family history here?

  203. anon[336] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu
    "American workers whine and kvetch like surly teenagers and view their employer as their enemy" - Viewing employer as an enemy was just a response to how workers were viewed by employers. Unions were only a minor part of the equation. They did not have a proactive power. Their power was only negative. Stakes were higher in America because losing a job in America was like losing your life. No insurance, meager or nonexistent unemployment benefits followed by eviction from your apartment. And you are despised nobody loser. America among Western countries is more than anybody a homo homini lupus est culture. It does not have to be so as you look at other countries like Germany where the relationship between unions and employers is productive and much less adversarial, but it must be so because this is what America is.

    Stakes were higher in America because losing a job in America was like losing your life. No insurance, meager or nonexistent unemployment benefits followed by eviction from your apartment. And you are despised nobody loser.

    Could you be more specific? What portion of the space-time continuum are you referring to?

  204. @HallParvey
    You do realize that that represents the best America has to offer.

    You do realize that that represents the best America has to offer.

    You must be new here. I’m a populist even among populists, so yes I do realize that.

    Anyway, I think lots of people have misunderstood Steve here. It’s not that he’s worried about the chicoms getting their feelings hurt. It’s just that he knows that empty rhetoric, without action, is probably all we’ll get. Trump will assume that will be enough, and he’ll probably be right given that we have no place else to go.

  205. @Anonymous (n)
    I've lived in China for several years, and my overall impression is that aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll) the Chinese people quite like their government just the way it is, and rightly so. While the "democratic" regimes of the Western world slowly but surely destroy their own people via immigration, neoliberal trade policy, and cultural degeneracy, the Chinese government takes the diametrically opposite approach on these existential issues: little to no immigration, mercantilist trade policy that emphasizes national prosperity over profit seeking by corporate elites, and emphasis on traditional values. To the extent that I as an American would object to the CCP it's that they are doing a great job making China into the world's next great dominant power, and I'm not Chinese.

    Jack D yearns for "Chinese democracy" because he believes it would turn out very similar to post-communist Russia pre-Putin. To be fair, that's certainly a legitimate perspective for Jack D and others of his tribe who would benefit from such an outcomoe. For those of us who are not part of that power axis, however, as well as for the Chinese people themselves, the CCP is doing just fine.

    aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll) the Chinese people quite like their government just the way it is,

    Well, if that is true, I see no problem in testing that assumption by instituting the universal vote. The CCP would come out victorious every time.

  206. @Testing12
    https://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db/read.php%3fidx=7333

    Lovely culture. Definitely not worth insulting, would be totally needless. (Nsfw)
    Maybe this wont sink in though for the pro-abortion swpl cuck audience, maybe something that would resonate more are videos of dogs being boiled alive in the Chinese wet markets. Yeah that happens in your beloved Communist Paradise too. Not going to link to those but trust me they are out there. Just a lovely, lovely culture.

    Some Sinophilic commenters here seem to be conflating the free speech issue with advocating regime change or invasion or something. A bit confusing.

    Regarding the "why do you care about China's government" comments, it's pretty unempathetic to wish tyranny on anyone. Ironic, considering the CCP lovers tend to also be the corona-panickers, accusing us of sacrificing elderly bodies to The Economy. But then they turn around and justify the CCP practices by way of the Chinese Economy. Lol

    Anyway, a selfish Randian reason we as a people should care about the CCP is because the more powerful and successful the Chinese tyranny becomes, the more hopefull OUR would-be tyrants become that they can pull the same shit here. Especially because American companies like Google are the ones building the tyrants toolkits for export. Do you guys really not see the start of this today? I thought that was a regular topic. Oh, nevermind, I get it, the 1984 analogies are just cutesy jokes, and we actually REALLY believe that Google fucking with search results are rogue lone wolf engineers. Totally.

    So look for everyones benefit, I hope the Chinese people get a better, more humane government; the Taiwanese are the good guys in my book (why does this even need to be defended?). Fuck the CCP, and anyone who supports them is an idiot or a traitor in my humble opinion.

    I would be willing to bet unless we drastically change course wrt China, that in under 20 years, the CCP feels bold enough and protected enough to start 'taking out' its critics/enemies overseas in western countries by means of suspicious accidents or unique sudden medical conditions.

    Lad, your rulers dont need the chinese to pull that kind of shit where you are. All they need is a highly docile, complacent and low IQ population with selective memories willing to go along with whatever they say. None of this requires the chinese whatsoever.

  207. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lockean Proviso
    Maybe it started with Britain's theft of Chinese intellectual property in 1848 regarding tea cultivation, which was then a Chinese monopoly. Perfidious Albion...

    "In 1848, the British East India Company sent Robert Fortune on a trip to China's interior, an area forbidden to foreigners. Fortune's mission was to steal the secrets of tea horticulture and manufacturing. The Scotsman donned a disguise and headed into the Wu Si Shan hills in a bold act of corporate espionage."

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-great-british-tea-heist-9866709/

    The British also sneaked rubber plants out of Brazil to plant them in their east Asian colonies, breaking the Brazilian monopoly on rubber production. Brazilians are still sore about this today.

    Porcelain, another great Chinese secret, was never successfully stolen by westerners. They had to figure it out for themselves, which was probably a good thing, as they ended up developing better varieties than the Chinese.

  208. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @William Badwhite

    I’m with Churchill on this – democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others.
     
    Democracy has only been in wide use globally for a bit more than 100 years. Not enough data to make this claim. There's a lot of ruin in a nation and 100 years isn't enough time for it to play out.

    The UK in the time from when Churchill said that to now has declined precipitously. The UK will be a majority non-white country in less than 50 years depending on whose estimates you believe. Churchill (one of history's more over-rated people) was talking nonsense.


    The difference is that in a democracy you can get rid of the guy after a few years where under dictatorship you are stuck with him until he dies.
     
    Democracy and dictatorship aren't the only two options.

    The dictator is supposed to resign when the crisis that brought him to power is over. That was how the Romans, who created the institution, understood it. Of course, that rarely happens.

    (The posthumous reputation of Franco and Pinochet would be much higher if they had stepped down in timely manner. Pinochet waited 20 years before finally resigning. Franco never did at all.)

  209. @Lockean Proviso
    Maybe it started with Britain's theft of Chinese intellectual property in 1848 regarding tea cultivation, which was then a Chinese monopoly. Perfidious Albion...

    "In 1848, the British East India Company sent Robert Fortune on a trip to China's interior, an area forbidden to foreigners. Fortune's mission was to steal the secrets of tea horticulture and manufacturing. The Scotsman donned a disguise and headed into the Wu Si Shan hills in a bold act of corporate espionage."

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-great-british-tea-heist-9866709/

    Now the Chinese and Indians simply send over H1Bs to the USA to get IP and instead of calling it industrial espionage it is referred to euphemistically by business interests as “brain circulation.”

  210. @Anonymous

    The United States is remarkedly in the same position as Britain was in the early 20th Century as it let itself became engaged in a senseless world war that eventually led to the dissolution of its empire.
     
    Where is the similarity in the United States? You mean the US letting itself become engaged in the Jews’ conquest of the Middle East?

    Where is the similarity in the United States? You mean the US letting itself become engaged in the Jews’ conquest of the Middle East?

    The sum of land held by Israel today exceeds that held in 1949 by about 2,000 sq miles, or the equivalent of two American counties of average size. The total Arab resident population of these holdings is around 625,000, just north of the population of Port Said on the Suez Canal. If their object has been ‘conquest of the Middle East’, they’ve been planing the door with an eraser the last 70 years.

    Every square foot of this territory was acquired in wars the Arab parties wanted, and the supposed representatives of the Arab residents therein have on three separate occasions over a period of 52 years rejected cession of the territories to an Arab authority and on two occasions rejected devolution with respect to the territories, because such settlements would include something they don’t want: Jews living next door in a state of prosperity. The most recent such rejection was in 2008.

  211. @Hail
    OT:

    A team of four experts (Patrik Hermansson, David Lawrence, Joe Mulhall, Simon Murdoch) has recently published a new book under the following title:

    The International Alt-Right: Fascism in the 21st Century
     
    https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/the-international-alt-right-2020-patrik-hermansson-david-lawrence-joe-mulhall-simon-murdoch.jpg

    I haven't seen it mentioned here, and the search function turns up nothing, so I wanted to bring this to your attention. According to the index, Steve Sailer is mentioned on pages 39, 41, 55, and 89, for a total of four pages of 268 in the book.

    The preview-mode at Google Books gives the following Sailer snippets:

    Sailer is a prolific writer whose work on race has, while dismissed by critics "as pseudoscience at best and eugenics at worst," become extremely popular among sections of the alt-right. Sailer graduated from Rice University in 1980 and began writing for National Review in the 1990s, a stint that ended when he was pushed out in 1997. He now writes for several sites associated with the alt-right such as VDARE, Taki's Magazine, and the Unz Review.
     

    However, while HBD is popular within the alt-right, Sailer has not wholeheartedly embraced the term itself, though he has written favourably of the movement in Taki's Magazine. While Sailer, like other HBD advocates, would likely reject ...
     

    Sailer, the father of HBD, is less guarded about its explicitly political ramifications, once stating in an interview with the H.L. Mencken Club that HBD is "both a field of study and a political movement."
     
    Positive blurbs for the book are trumpeted from: Jon Cruddas, British MP; Heidi Beirich, US far-left activist (see also an an investigation into the origins of Dr. Heidi Beirich's radicalization); Dan Stone, UK academic; Mike Wendling, "author of Alt-Right: From 4-chan to the White House;" Christa Hodapp, US academic.

    Here is the contents page:

    https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/the-international-alt-right-2020-contents-page.png

    On Google Books and scan through the Index to see what people/topics they are mainly discussing, which is pretty funny.

    Recently, I tried to direct something toward Steve on Twitter by addressing a Tweet to @Steve_Sailer . Within a couple hours of sending it, I was un-followed by someone local who had posted Rachel Maddow blah blah crap on their Twitter feed before. Since I’m in an expat community, I may have really branded myself. Anyway, Steve is infamous!

    • Replies: @Daemon
    That person did you a favor.
  212. @Chrisnonymous
    Recently, I tried to direct something toward Steve on Twitter by addressing a Tweet to @Steve_Sailer . Within a couple hours of sending it, I was un-followed by someone local who had posted Rachel Maddow blah blah crap on their Twitter feed before. Since I'm in an expat community, I may have really branded myself. Anyway, Steve is infamous!

    That person did you a favor.

  213. @Anonymous
    China was already beginning to disengage from the US. That's what the whole Belt & Road and Made in China 2025 projects were about.

    The goal of the Belt & Road project is to develop energy and trading networks and markets across Eurasia that would reduce dependence on trade with the US and on US Navy and finance dominated sea based trade. The Made in China 2025 project aims to move Chinese production up the value chain so that it is less dependent on higher end US production.

    If it was simply about "disengagement", both US elites and ordinary American citizens would have welcomed these projects as opportunities for greater independence and an inward turn towards domestic, internal development. But they haven't, because disengagement is not the issue. Relative power is. Which is why a major war is likely in the near future. The US has a 10 - 15 year window right now to initiate a war with China before the relative power balance shifts too much.

    But they haven’t, because disengagement is not the issue. Relative power is. Which is why a major war is likely in the near future. The US has a 10 – 15 year window right now to initiate a war with China before the relative power balance shifts too much.

    Something very much to keep in mind.

    The British exited their Empire when they saw that it was no longer tenable – but of course they were British looking after British interests.

    The US Empire is completely different. It’s run by Jews and looks after Jewish/Zionist interests. From this POV the US is disposable to the last goy if it safeguards their power – which introduces a completely different and more dangerous calculation.

  214. @Peter Akuleyev
    my overall impression is that aside from a tiny fringe of malcontents (many of which are on foreign payroll)

    I would take you more seriously if you weren't spouting CCP propaganda about "foreign payroll"

    Yes, most ordinary Chinese are pretty thrilled with the dramatic improvements in China over the past 30 years, and that has bought the Communists some good will. Under the surface though a lot of Chinese are disgusted with the corruption and constant interference in people's daily lives. A lof of Chinese see the Communists as heavy handed Beijing imperialists forcing their dialect on everyone (there is a lot of regional pride and identity in China), and the older generation still remembers the Cultural Revolution. A lot of people still detest the Communist Party, and are well aware that China's accomplishments have mostly been despite the Party's interference. I hear a lot of grumbling from entrepreneurs especially - if you are ambitious, China is a very stifling environment to grow a business, and the stress from finding the line between bribing enough officials to stay competitive and going too far and getting a bullet in your head on corruption charges is significant. There is a reason why wealthy Chinese almost all want to leave.

    But it is also true that very few Chinese want China to resemble the US. Chinese don't want US style democracy - they want a Lee Kwan Yew - an enlightened patriotic leader who truly has his country's interests at heart. Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan demonstrate every day that there are alternative and better paths in East Asia, Western liberal democracy is not the only option.

    One reason the CCP is pouring top dollar into creating tech hubs in backwaters like Guiyang (high performance computing related stuff) is to alleviate competition in places like Beijing while incentivizing the relative lack of bureaucracy: they worry less about security threats in the boonies, I reckon.

    >Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan demonstrate every day that there are alternative and better paths in East Asia, Western liberal democracy is not the only option.

    Singapore is what they want. Taiwan is a high-functioning liberal democracy (and a pretty raucous one, too), thus pretty much proving bunk the notion that Chinese culture and democracy are inherently incompatible. Hong Kong is not a democracy, and never has been, contrary to what the American media and State Department would have you believe. But is an extremely liberal place with a very weak central government. The local civic culture takes its freedoms very, very seriously, as the ChiComs know well. So, those two aren’t suitable.

    Singapore, on the other hand, is top-down, centralized, and pseudo-authoritarian, so it shouldn’t be surprising that this is what Beijing wants to gravitate to over time. But they’ve got a long way to go until they get there. Singapore’s no democracy, but it also isn’t remotely Chinese levels of authoritarian by any stretch, either.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    Singapore’s no democracy, but it also isn’t remotely Chinese levels of authoritarian by any stretch, either.
     
    Do you mean the vote counts are rigged? Or that it's so gerrymandered as to be a dictatorship?
  215. @nebulafox
    One reason the CCP is pouring top dollar into creating tech hubs in backwaters like Guiyang (high performance computing related stuff) is to alleviate competition in places like Beijing while incentivizing the relative lack of bureaucracy: they worry less about security threats in the boonies, I reckon.

    >Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan demonstrate every day that there are alternative and better paths in East Asia, Western liberal democracy is not the only option.

    Singapore is what they want. Taiwan is a high-functioning liberal democracy (and a pretty raucous one, too), thus pretty much proving bunk the notion that Chinese culture and democracy are inherently incompatible. Hong Kong is not a democracy, and never has been, contrary to what the American media and State Department would have you believe. But is an extremely liberal place with a very weak central government. The local civic culture takes its freedoms very, very seriously, as the ChiComs know well. So, those two aren't suitable.

    Singapore, on the other hand, is top-down, centralized, and pseudo-authoritarian, so it shouldn't be surprising that this is what Beijing wants to gravitate to over time. But they've got a long way to go until they get there. Singapore's no democracy, but it also isn't remotely Chinese levels of authoritarian by any stretch, either.

    Singapore’s no democracy, but it also isn’t remotely Chinese levels of authoritarian by any stretch, either.

    Do you mean the vote counts are rigged? Or that it’s so gerrymandered as to be a dictatorship?

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