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Is closing your downtown HQ a good way for a firm to reduce its chance of being held hostage by woke employees? If you appeal more to suburban and small town workers, you are less likely to have to deal with an internal crisis if, say, the CEO forgets somebody’s pronouns than if you make them work in downtown San Francisco.

Should we do this with federal employees?

 
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  1. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:

    You’d need to also find a replacement for Slack that is less of an internal version of Twitter.

    Ideally you’d ban mobile phones and make internet access limited to people with a business need, only when needed, but with remote work that’s not going to work.

    Could you ban the use and possession of personal social media outside of work, legally? Say, for a 20 percent salary premium over market? Refundable, with attorney’s fees, if it turns out you lied?

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @Anon


    Ideally you’d ban mobile phones and make internet access limited to people with a business need, only when needed, but with remote work that’s not going to work.

    Could you ban the use and possession of personal social media outside of work, legally?
     

    Seems to me that it would be much easier to get rid of employees entirely.

    Granted our woke universities are working on woke robots, but it'll be a few years before government catches up and outlaws the non-woke kind. In that interval, stock up. Hopefully by then there will be non-woke robot technicians too.

    , @Pericles
    @Anon



    You’d need to also find a replacement for Slack that is less of an internal version of Twitter.

     

    Perhaps they could instead license a private version of Unz.com? (Max 3 comments per hour.)
    , @Barack Obama's secret Unz account
    @Anon


    You’d need to also find a replacement for Slack...
     
    I really don't understand this aspect of modern business: first, that, despite all this communications technology, companies still prefer to concentrate all their workers in a tall building in the middle of a big city; second, that, when they do let the employees work remotely, they insist that they spend the entire day communicating with each other as much as if they were in an office: phone, e-mail, Zoom, Slack (the clue is in the name there)...

    In ye olden days, the East India Company and others were able to run enormous global enterprises despite the fact that it took months to get a message from London to Bombay. Similarly, in WW2, the Wermacht supposedly gave a lot of autonomy to field commanders.

    I guess the point I'm making is why can't modern companies just set goals, targets, and other parameters, and turn their employees loose? "Give me a quarterly report and make sure the numbers have gone up x%."

    My suspicion is that, for quite a lot of jobs, if you took out Zoom meetings, there'd be nothing left.
    , @Alexander Turok
    @Anon

    At will employment means they can fire you for any reason, but courts would refuse to enforce the refunding of wages.

  2. Should we do this with federal employees?

    We, kimosabe?

    Boomers are so cute when they pretend their government is a VFW chapter.

    • Troll: HammerJack
    • Replies: @Achilleus
    @Desiderius


    We, kimosabe?

    Boomers are so cute when they pretend their government is a VFW chapter.
     
    Like a peasant deciding which palace Emperor Franz Joseph should move the court and his ministers to.
  3. I was thinking this the other day…if you can’t see your company, you can’t see whether you are in the majority or minority

    • LOL: James Speaks
    • Replies: @SaneClownPosse
    @Thoughts

    Would remote working make "it's not who you know, it's who you blow" less of an issue or more of an issue?

    Since no one (unless someone forgets they're on a zoom call) would see any physical commingling between the parties.

    Like a closed office door opens and someone hurrys out.

  4. Arbitrage opportunity.

    Get a job with a high-paying Silicon Valley firm that offers a remote-work option. Then move to a low-cost place (Tampa, Nashville, Phoenix, etc.), while commuting online.

    $150K/yr in San Jose is middle-class. In Tampa, it’s good money.

    You can upgrade your economic class substantially through that one simple strategy.

    How awesome is that?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you'll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don't forget you.

    Coinbase's announcement goes to lengths, to assure job applicants that the Bay Area won't be the de facto headquarters, so they are sensitive to this concern.

    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF. Of course, Coinbase's beancounters are probably working on ways to not let you do that as we speak.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Neoconned, @JimDandy, @ScarletNumber, @donut, @gent, @Ed, @Arclight, @Barnard, @James worthy, @Reg Cæsar

    , @James B. Shearer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    "Get a job with a high-paying Silicon Valley firm that offers a remote-work option. Then move to a low-cost place (Tampa, Nashville, Phoenix, etc.), while commuting online."

    Or pay someone in China a fraction of your salary to do the work. See this story. Which you may believe or not.

    Replies: @Clyde, @Anonymous, @bomag

    , @Anon
    @JohnnyWalker123


    $150K/yr in San Jose is middle-class. In Tampa, it’s good money.
     
    That's not how it works. You get less money if you live in a place with lower cost of living. And your company needs to know your actual domicile (= your GPS coordinates at 2 a.m. 183 days of the year) or you and they get in trouble with the tax authorities, unemployment comp people, health insurance, etc.

    Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/21/zuckerberg-50percent-of-facebook-employees-could-be-working-remotely.html

    The company will begin allowing certain employees to work remotely full time, he said. Those employees will have to notify the company if they move to a different location by Jan. 1, 2021. As a result, those employees may have their compensations adjusted based on their new locations, Zuckerberg said.

    “We’ll adjust salary to your location at that point,” said Zuckerberg, citing that this is necessary for taxes and accounting. “There’ll be severe ramifications for people who are not honest about this.”
     
    In the end it's market pay against the competition, but remote work throws new variables into the mix, so it will be interesting how it works out.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Alden

    , @The Alarmist
    @JohnnyWalker123

    FaceBag already signaled long ago that employees wages would be adjusted to the local market in which they were actually living and working. That is not an idle threat for someone who can be replaced one-for-one or even two-for-one by someone is South Asia or Eastern Europe.

    Unless you are a serious rainmaker and able to operate on the global stage, you can be one of the most talented cogs and still be replaceable.

    , @epebble
    @JohnnyWalker123

    They normally offer $110K/yr for the same job if you work from Portland, OR. Actually, I like the offer since you don't have to move and there is no commuting. After taxes, the differences are narrower still. All in all, it is a plus for everyone.

    , @Muggles
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Re: home town wages vs. cost-of-living arbitrage idea.

    Yes many are now doing that if they can.

    Several flies in this ointment however.

    First, very few large firms are totally eliminating offices. Almost zero. And unless they do that you the employee are still normally required to show up at the office once a week or whatever the schedule says. In person meetings are much more productive for some things.

    Second, companies with remote workers aren't dumb. Some are now setting wages to the local area where remote workers are now living. That is if you live in a low cost area your pay will be adjusted down (or offered less, if new) than those who remain in expensive large urban centers. Only very high demand workers, like my IT bro-in-law, can still get the same pay for living on a mountaintop, practically. Even he has to fly out for clients, etc.

    For many types of jobs customer face time and boss face time is important.

    Still for some kinds of businesses decentralization of employment is an ongoing trend driven by both employers who save on office rent and employees who may enjoy better environments and lower costs of living.

    Uncle Joe & Co. will, if in power long enough, want to "normalize" employee racial and "equity" numbers by demanding quotas for geographically bunched (mainly) POC to be hired to "balance out" smarter Galt's Gulch whites who prefer Smallville to Little Kolkutta or Floydville in large urban areas. No hiding out from Big Sister's dictats! .

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

  5. Anti-White discrimination is a major concern for Tucker Carlson.

    Interestingly, Stephen Miller is pushing this too. Very rare to see a Jew with his political views.

    Carlson-Miller 2024?

    • Replies: @anon
    @JohnnyWalker123

    What does this have to do with Coinbase or distributed personnel?

    , @Polistra
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Stephen Miller is pushing this too. Very rare to see a Jew with his political views.
     
    He's patriotic. Patriotic for America, I mean.

    Carlson-Miller 2024?
     

    Please don't get my hopes up. But are two white males a nonstarter in CYA?
    , @TTSSYF
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Trump-Stefanik?

    , @AndrewR
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Not sure if they're all being serious. They seem to think "anti-racist" means "against all racial bias" when in fact it just means anti-white.

  6. @JohnnyWalker123
    Arbitrage opportunity.

    Get a job with a high-paying Silicon Valley firm that offers a remote-work option. Then move to a low-cost place (Tampa, Nashville, Phoenix, etc.), while commuting online.

    $150K/yr in San Jose is middle-class. In Tampa, it's good money.

    You can upgrade your economic class substantially through that one simple strategy.

    How awesome is that?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @James B. Shearer, @Anon, @The Alarmist, @epebble, @Muggles

    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you’ll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don’t forget you.

    Coinbase’s announcement goes to lengths, to assure job applicants that the Bay Area won’t be the de facto headquarters, so they are sensitive to this concern.

    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF. Of course, Coinbase’s beancounters are probably working on ways to not let you do that as we speak.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @Steve Sailer

    If their workers can work remotely from Calcutta, they’ll save even more money.

    SF Bay Area rents are very high, so they’ll save a lot of money even if they don’t use this as an opportunity to get more lower wage third world labor . . . but of course they will.

    Replies: @Neoconned, @Dr. DoomNGloom, @TomSchmidt

    , @Neoconned
    @Steve Sailer

    .i got into an argument with a Uber driver once.....well a friendly argument about how Uber was a bubble.....and the driver made a point...."its just an app.....they can make money anyway so long as the app works....

    Decentralization works well for a few internet hustlers.....not so much for most other average people & middle men etc

    , @JimDandy
    @Steve Sailer

    I don't see how the big cities can maintain their importance in the face of woke purges (and the attendant exponentially rising violent crime rates) coupled with the advent of remote work technologies.

    , @ScarletNumber
    @Steve Sailer


    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF.
     
    The feds figured this out years ago, where your salary of $X is augmented by a cost-of-living adjustment. This applies in the military as well. Of course in the private sector if you don't like what your adjusted salary is, you could always negotiate a higher base salary if you are in high enough demand.

    the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you’ll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don’t forget you.
     
    This is true, as promotions aren't given out by any sort of merit system.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    , @donut
    @Steve Sailer

    As George said once : "My presence, in that office, can only hurt my chances."

    OT: My friend and me were driving down the road yesterday and saw this sticker on the window of a cab in a pick up truck : :"horn broken , watch for finger".

    I thought you guys might get a chuckle out of that .

    , @gent
    @Steve Sailer


    you’ll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don’t forget you.
     
    What it means is that virtual meetings are the only things that matter any more. Essentially, every day has to be treated as a job interview (formality of dress and affect). The young women I work with treat it like they're fucking streaming.
    , @Ed
    @Steve Sailer

    Another issue is that if jobs are remote, who says the remote job has to be in the USA? For sure there are time zones limitations but if a CEO can move some back office operations to India or better yet a Latin American country in the same time zone, they’ll do it.

    Replies: @gent

    , @Arclight
    @Steve Sailer

    I believe Salesforce has announced it will be allowing workers to remain remote but that they aren't going to pay SF wages if you don't actually live there, either.

    Worth noting that they a) built the largest skyscraper in its home city of SF just a couple of years ago and b) around the same time having become the largest tenant in the tallest building in Indianapolis, which is its 2nd largest office location. That's a lot of overhead cost they are stuck with.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Anonymous, @dfordoom

    , @Barnard
    @Steve Sailer

    Seems like it would well be worth for the average person to live somewhere better at 60-70% of the pay they would get for living in Silicon Valley. Two other big problems are, it becomes even easier to "downsize" a remote workforce and feeling like you are locked in to that job with good networking opportunities. It could be easier for the company to turn the screws on remote employees if they feel like they will have an easier time replacing them with someone from anywhere in the world than the employee would be able to find another job.

    , @James worthy
    @Steve Sailer

    Google and other tech multinationals already figured out this cost of living adjustment.

    The real question is how much they can nationalize or internationalize their job pool. In SF it’s believed that SF engineers are paid more not just because SF is expensive but because the best move to SF for the high pay.

    Internationalization presents cultural integration issues. SF tech startups have a culture of agreeable disagreeableness which is hard to translate to caste cultures like India, though they can take ambitious Indians who move to SF and change their behavior.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA...

     

    If they're anything at all like William Atherton in Ghostbusters, they can stay there!


    https://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/1/4/2/443142_v1.jpg

    https://goombastomp.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Walter_Peck-300x213.jpg

    https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0269/5649/6965/products/10001W_1024x1024.jpg?v=1591913426

    https://unobtainium13.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/vlcsnap-2016-07-19-20h22m16s353.jpg

  7. @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you'll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don't forget you.

    Coinbase's announcement goes to lengths, to assure job applicants that the Bay Area won't be the de facto headquarters, so they are sensitive to this concern.

    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF. Of course, Coinbase's beancounters are probably working on ways to not let you do that as we speak.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Neoconned, @JimDandy, @ScarletNumber, @donut, @gent, @Ed, @Arclight, @Barnard, @James worthy, @Reg Cæsar

    If their workers can work remotely from Calcutta, they’ll save even more money.

    SF Bay Area rents are very high, so they’ll save a lot of money even if they don’t use this as an opportunity to get more lower wage third world labor . . . but of course they will.

    • Agree: notsaying, Batman
    • Replies: @Neoconned
    @Not Raul

    I was wondering the same thing.

    A former church friend who's probably 60ish now told me a story once about how he worked for a computer firm in Denver in the 90s & early 2000s....1 time he came in and saw his coworkers training their Hindu replacements.....who would be flown back to India.....

    He cashed out & invested in a restaurant and rental properties.....

    Replies: @Not Raul, @bomag

    , @Dr. DoomNGloom
    @Not Raul


    f their workers can work remotely from Calcutta, they’ll save even more money.
     
    At least nominally. It's not distance, it's time zones. I've seen business people from Poughkeepsie on the phoning or skyping developers in Mexico City. It could just as easily be Montevideo or Buenos Aires. It's easier to work with someone in the same time zone thousands of miles away than with someone on the opposite coast.
    , @TomSchmidt
    @Not Raul

    Yes, this is coming. No reason to pay first-world wages for virtual/remote work unless you're getting first world value. If you get that value in India, why not?

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

  8. @JohnnyWalker123
    Arbitrage opportunity.

    Get a job with a high-paying Silicon Valley firm that offers a remote-work option. Then move to a low-cost place (Tampa, Nashville, Phoenix, etc.), while commuting online.

    $150K/yr in San Jose is middle-class. In Tampa, it's good money.

    You can upgrade your economic class substantially through that one simple strategy.

    How awesome is that?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @James B. Shearer, @Anon, @The Alarmist, @epebble, @Muggles

    “Get a job with a high-paying Silicon Valley firm that offers a remote-work option. Then move to a low-cost place (Tampa, Nashville, Phoenix, etc.), while commuting online.”

    Or pay someone in China a fraction of your salary to do the work. See this story. Which you may believe or not.

    • Thanks: Alden
    • LOL: JohnnyWalker123
    • Replies: @Clyde
    @James B. Shearer

    I sure hope this happened!

    , @Anonymous
    @James B. Shearer

    Boomers already failed miserably at offshoring jobs to India. Remember when ol' Jack Welch was blathering on about all of the talent in India, just waiting to be unleashed?

    As it turns out, India is dysfunctional because, as a collective group, Indians are dishonest and dysfunctional. They require constant supervision. The Chinese are better. But the cultural gains are offset by Asian passiveness.

    If anything, remote work will probably help US workers, since remote work requires cultural cohesiveness and an assumption of honesty. Currently, the companies that have embraced remote work skew White. OTOH, companies that most highly rely on H1B labor will resist remote work the most. They know it will be a disaster with a diverse, international workforce.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @sayless

    , @bomag
    @James B. Shearer

    The linked story: does that count as renting out your job (payment in labor)?

  9. A lot of the libertarian types are dumb like this….white supremacist types too….think how much more these jobs pay than over hyped private sector nonsense….

    Ronald Reagan has a quote attributed to him: “the best minds aren’t in govt….if they were business would steal them away….”

    Maybe in a few scenarios….from what I’ve seen though in large parts of the country its far far more about “who you know” than “what you know”…..good old boy networks & that crap. I’ve been passed over for other stupid reasons….like the boss wanting youngish semi attractive to hot 18 to 35 yr old females as his asst. managers to help satiate his mid life insecurities thinking he’s creating his version of Charlie’s Angels….

    If white Americans were smart they’d take over the civil service as make work jobs for their friends & family.

    Trust me, govt jobs like postal jobs, goldbricker VA jobs etc pay AT LEAST double most back breaking laborious private sector jobs PLUS have Cadillac plated dental/medical/pension benefits….govt jobs are sweet.

    Instead of taking them over most libertarian types whine about minorities taking their jobs……lemme tell you from experience….the private sector is very overrated…..its why for instance even STEM professors will tell you about the glories of the private sector but squirm if you talk about taking away their professorship sinecure that usually pays high 5 figures to low 6 figures…..

    The private sector may snap up the best & brightest here and there but the private sector is largely overrated…..and the pay not so impressive…..even for STEM jobs….

    • Agree: JMcG, Dnought, Alden
    • Thanks: JohnnyWalker123
    • Troll: GeneralRipper
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Neoconned

    Neoconned, if White Americans were allowed under AA to get any of these jobs you tout, wouldn't they have already done so? How could you not know about Affirmative Action?

    Replies: @Neoconned, @Pericles

    , @TTSSYF
    @Neoconned

    I'd rather make less in the private sector than mark time as a government employee.

    , @Ron Mexico
    @Neoconned

    "If white Americans were smart they’d take over the civil service as make work jobs for their friends & family."
    This is how Stalin seized control of USSR.

    , @bomag
    @Neoconned


    govt jobs are sweet
     
    From a distance; and some are a good gig; but many of them crush your soul.
    , @Alfa158
    @Neoconned

    That’s all very well, but the problem is that the government doesn’t like straight White men and actively discriminates against them, so getting those jobs isn’t so easy, and even if you get one, you will get passed over for promotions in favor of pet groups.
    One exception is the defense industry. I know a very sharp electronics engineer who got a job with a defense contractor which is effectively a government job. Same sort of higher pay, benefits and retirement plan as a government job. The defense industry is having a tough time finding smart engineers who can qualify for a security clearance and are willing to work at a job that doesn’t offer stock options and equity in the company. The employer kept jacking up the salary offers to him until he finally accepted on the further conditions that they start him out with six weeks vacation in the bank and allow him to work from home most days. (His boss actually fled California and was already working remotely.) He finds the job kind of boring compared to the go-go tech start-ups he worked at before, and finds himself doing things like finishing his part of a project, and then twiddling his thumbs for weeks while everyone catches up with their tasks. However, he will ride it out until he is ready to cash out and flee the state.

    , @SimplePseudonymicHandle
    @Neoconned


    squirm if you talk about taking away their professorship sinecure that usually pays high 5 figures to low 6 figures…..
     
    You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
    , @Muggles
    @Neoconned


    The private sector may snap up the best & brightest here and there but the private sector is largely overrated…..and the pay not so impressive…..even for STEM jobs….
     
    So which government entity have you worked for for 25 years?

    Yes, some govt. benefits are better than some private ones due to politics, government employee union workers and large voting blocs. The government is ultimately a parasite so they feed on everyone else as long and much as possible.

    Some essential govt. work is hard, dirty, dangerous, etc. and when not subject to privatization need to pay well. Of course you also get a "civil service" mentality where 20% of your coworkers do no actual work, etc.
    , @mjm
    @Neoconned

    Government work is not more lucrative for STEM. The salary is lower and the benefits are worse. You CAN be less competent and keep your government job however. So maybe I should say if you are competent and in STEM government service jobs are worse.

  10. @Anon
    You'd need to also find a replacement for Slack that is less of an internal version of Twitter.

    Ideally you'd ban mobile phones and make internet access limited to people with a business need, only when needed, but with remote work that's not going to work.

    Could you ban the use and possession of personal social media outside of work, legally? Say, for a 20 percent salary premium over market? Refundable, with attorney's fees, if it turns out you lied?

    Replies: @Polistra, @Pericles, @Barack Obama's secret Unz account, @Alexander Turok

    Ideally you’d ban mobile phones and make internet access limited to people with a business need, only when needed, but with remote work that’s not going to work.

    Could you ban the use and possession of personal social media outside of work, legally?

    Seems to me that it would be much easier to get rid of employees entirely.

    Granted our woke universities are working on woke robots, but it’ll be a few years before government catches up and outlaws the non-woke kind. In that interval, stock up. Hopefully by then there will be non-woke robot technicians too.

  11. Meanwhile, downtown Los Angeles has been downgraded from “Third World Hellhole” to “Bidenville”.

    Next stop, cannibalism…

  12. @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you'll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don't forget you.

    Coinbase's announcement goes to lengths, to assure job applicants that the Bay Area won't be the de facto headquarters, so they are sensitive to this concern.

    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF. Of course, Coinbase's beancounters are probably working on ways to not let you do that as we speak.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Neoconned, @JimDandy, @ScarletNumber, @donut, @gent, @Ed, @Arclight, @Barnard, @James worthy, @Reg Cæsar

    .i got into an argument with a Uber driver once…..well a friendly argument about how Uber was a bubble…..and the driver made a point….”its just an app…..they can make money anyway so long as the app works….

    Decentralization works well for a few internet hustlers…..not so much for most other average people & middle men etc

  13. @JohnnyWalker123
    Anti-White discrimination is a major concern for Tucker Carlson.

    https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1390351702952267777

    Interestingly, Stephen Miller is pushing this too. Very rare to see a Jew with his political views.

    Carlson-Miller 2024?

    Replies: @anon, @Polistra, @TTSSYF, @AndrewR

    What does this have to do with Coinbase or distributed personnel?

  14. Check this out.

    Very interesting!

    • Replies: @anon
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Don't tell the CivNats.

    Also don't tell them about this.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

    , @Spect3r
    @JohnnyWalker123

    What are thous non red non blue areas?
    No data or?

    , @res
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Direct link to the paper.
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0245692

    Caption for the figure.


    Fig 1. World map of time preferences.
    Countries with preferences for more immediate rewards are colored in red, countries that emphasize future rewards more are marked in blue, gray colors indicate missing data
     
    Data is available in an Excel spreadsheet and a Word table.
  15. @Not Raul
    @Steve Sailer

    If their workers can work remotely from Calcutta, they’ll save even more money.

    SF Bay Area rents are very high, so they’ll save a lot of money even if they don’t use this as an opportunity to get more lower wage third world labor . . . but of course they will.

    Replies: @Neoconned, @Dr. DoomNGloom, @TomSchmidt

    I was wondering the same thing.

    A former church friend who’s probably 60ish now told me a story once about how he worked for a computer firm in Denver in the 90s & early 2000s….1 time he came in and saw his coworkers training their Hindu replacements…..who would be flown back to India…..

    He cashed out & invested in a restaurant and rental properties…..

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @Neoconned

    I knew a guy who had a similar story.

    I believe that he had worked for Amdocs.

    , @bomag
    @Neoconned


    1 time he came in and saw his coworkers training their Hindu replacements...
     
    Where's the worker revolt when you need one?

    Looks like Marx underestimated a couple things, including Capital's ability to buy people off; the effectiveness of the police state; general passivity.
  16. Anonymous[102] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s more simple and obvious and more ‘bottom line’ than that, Steve.

    Perhaps, *all* gains in American commercial ‘profitability’ these days – and that’s the only thing the stockholders give as damn about, and of course this metric is directly proportional to CEO compensation – is due to shaving off margins, externalities etc, cutting costs and cutting them hard wherever you find them.
    Obviously, a big fat juicy target is any corporate building you are obliged to operate. You’ve got your rent, your property tax, your heating, your electric etc etc. Better be crafty and shift those costs on to your employees 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

    Plus you’re insulated somewhat from all those ‘harrasment’ lawsuits.

  17. @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you'll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don't forget you.

    Coinbase's announcement goes to lengths, to assure job applicants that the Bay Area won't be the de facto headquarters, so they are sensitive to this concern.

    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF. Of course, Coinbase's beancounters are probably working on ways to not let you do that as we speak.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Neoconned, @JimDandy, @ScarletNumber, @donut, @gent, @Ed, @Arclight, @Barnard, @James worthy, @Reg Cæsar

    I don’t see how the big cities can maintain their importance in the face of woke purges (and the attendant exponentially rising violent crime rates) coupled with the advent of remote work technologies.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  18. @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you'll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don't forget you.

    Coinbase's announcement goes to lengths, to assure job applicants that the Bay Area won't be the de facto headquarters, so they are sensitive to this concern.

    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF. Of course, Coinbase's beancounters are probably working on ways to not let you do that as we speak.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Neoconned, @JimDandy, @ScarletNumber, @donut, @gent, @Ed, @Arclight, @Barnard, @James worthy, @Reg Cæsar

    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF.

    The feds figured this out years ago, where your salary of $X is augmented by a cost-of-living adjustment. This applies in the military as well. Of course in the private sector if you don’t like what your adjusted salary is, you could always negotiate a higher base salary if you are in high enough demand.

    the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you’ll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don’t forget you.

    This is true, as promotions aren’t given out by any sort of merit system.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @ScarletNumber


    The feds figured this out years ago, where your salary of $X is augmented by a cost-of-living adjustment.
     
    That's true, but the average Fed in the DC area is a GS-13 which before a COLA is about $90k. That's not much in a high priced area but goes a long way in flyover country.

    WRT moving Feds out of Washington: One of DJT's minions tried to move about 500 jobs in, IIRC, some agriculture related agency to Kansas City and the employees went nuts. I don't know if it ever happened, but you'd have thought they were being sent to a Siberian gulag for all the yelling and screaming that went on.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Alden, @R.G. Camara, @Hhsiii

  19. Should we do this with federal employees?

    At the very least, there is no need for all federal agencies to be based in Washington. I don’t know if I would trust the average civil servant to work from home, though, since they barely work when they are at work.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @ScarletNumber


    At the very least, there is no need for all federal agencies ...
     
    I like the way you're going with this, Mr. Number.

    ...they barely work when they are at work.
     
    The more barely they work, the better off Americans are as a whole, at least White Americans.

    #OutsourceFederalGovernment

    Replies: @Adam Smith

    , @Mark G.
    @ScarletNumber


    At the very least, there is no need for all federal agencies to be based in Washington.

     

    When military contracts are passed out they often end up going to companies in low cost states. The lowest bidder will get the contract and companies in states with lower labor and other costs have an advantage. These low cost states are often the red states rather than high cost blue states like New York.

    You will sometimes see the argument made that red states get more federal government money than blue states, the implication being that red states are getting welfare paid for by blue states. A lot of this money is in reality these government contracts going to businesses who won the contracts due to the better tax and regulatory policies put in place by Republicans in those states that keep costs of doing business down.

    When the federal government is controlled by Democrats, they have a good reason to try to circumvent this process. They may not be able to keep the money from going out to red states but they can increase the amount of affirmative action used when passing out contracts so the money and jobs will go to Democrat voters in Republican states. Even when they aren't using contracts and are just setting up government operations staffed with civil servants, affirmative action can still be used to reward blue voters residing in non-blue states.
    , @AnotherDad
    @ScarletNumber

    Getting the various federal agencies out of Washington and broken up so the employees have spouses and neighbors and friends who are regular Americans actually earning a living--long overdue.

    There's no reason for America to have a royal court. If you don't want imperial politics, don't have an imperial capital.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    , @Known Fact
    @ScarletNumber

    Let's send state workers home too. Although it'll seem pretty weird going to someone's house to get your driver's license renewed

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

  20. Anon[269] • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Arbitrage opportunity.

    Get a job with a high-paying Silicon Valley firm that offers a remote-work option. Then move to a low-cost place (Tampa, Nashville, Phoenix, etc.), while commuting online.

    $150K/yr in San Jose is middle-class. In Tampa, it's good money.

    You can upgrade your economic class substantially through that one simple strategy.

    How awesome is that?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @James B. Shearer, @Anon, @The Alarmist, @epebble, @Muggles

    $150K/yr in San Jose is middle-class. In Tampa, it’s good money.

    That’s not how it works. You get less money if you live in a place with lower cost of living. And your company needs to know your actual domicile (= your GPS coordinates at 2 a.m. 183 days of the year) or you and they get in trouble with the tax authorities, unemployment comp people, health insurance, etc.

    Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/21/zuckerberg-50percent-of-facebook-employees-could-be-working-remotely.html

    The company will begin allowing certain employees to work remotely full time, he said. Those employees will have to notify the company if they move to a different location by Jan. 1, 2021. As a result, those employees may have their compensations adjusted based on their new locations, Zuckerberg said.

    “We’ll adjust salary to your location at that point,” said Zuckerberg, citing that this is necessary for taxes and accounting. “There’ll be severe ramifications for people who are not honest about this.”

    In the end it’s market pay against the competition, but remote work throws new variables into the mix, so it will be interesting how it works out.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Anon

    I wonder how they can find out where you're online commuting from. How would they verify that?

    Replies: @Anon, @Jim Don Bob

    , @Alden
    @Anon

    The eeeevvvvviiiilllll capitalists have been talking about lowering salaries because of reduced commuting costs since last May.

  21. Nothing to do with “Woke”.
    Those boys have fleeced the sheep and are heading back to israel.

  22. Anon[269] • Disclaimer says:

    Is there some way to make a particular company more attractive to people who are married with families, without falling into trouble under antidiscrimination law?

    It might be worth it for atheist founders to fake becoming religious and go full-Hobby Lobby. It wouldn’t matter if everyone suspected it was fake; it might be even better that way.

    Benefits like these could be offered:

    — Flexible-schedule, part-time or remote jobs for spouses of full-time employees.

    — Company-sponsored private primary and secondary school facility or group home-schooling in a company facility, complete with no gender lessons in primary school and a gender realism curriculum in middle school teaching that there are two sexes and trans is a mental condition. Also, full math curriculum through integral calculus where the word problems only use Nordic given names. And a slightly obnoxious amount of Christian bible and religion education.

    — Discount gun and ammo purchases through the company with free range instruction where the race of the targets matches the actual ratios from government crime statistics.

    — Over-the-top obstetrics coverage.

    — Company dances for singles, including Sadie Hawkins dances or spinsters’ balls; dance styles to include country western line dancing and the hokie-pokie.

    — Company cafeteria has taco days where miniature sombreros are included.

    On the other hand, no sex change surgery coverage or gender dysphoria hormones.

    Possible company rules:

    — Company uniforms, with mandatory skirts for women.

    — Grooming code, iterated to be maximally obnoxious to progressives, but for instance a “hair diameter” limit to prevent out-of-control black naturals, with the expectation of a lawsuit, which will be appealed up to the Supreme Court to generate as much publicity as possible.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Anon

    You really have this all planned out. Too bad it’s fantasy.

  23. @James B. Shearer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    "Get a job with a high-paying Silicon Valley firm that offers a remote-work option. Then move to a low-cost place (Tampa, Nashville, Phoenix, etc.), while commuting online."

    Or pay someone in China a fraction of your salary to do the work. See this story. Which you may believe or not.

    Replies: @Clyde, @Anonymous, @bomag

    I sure hope this happened!

  24. @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you'll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don't forget you.

    Coinbase's announcement goes to lengths, to assure job applicants that the Bay Area won't be the de facto headquarters, so they are sensitive to this concern.

    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF. Of course, Coinbase's beancounters are probably working on ways to not let you do that as we speak.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Neoconned, @JimDandy, @ScarletNumber, @donut, @gent, @Ed, @Arclight, @Barnard, @James worthy, @Reg Cæsar

    As George said once : “My presence, in that office, can only hurt my chances.”

    OT: My friend and me were driving down the road yesterday and saw this sticker on the window of a cab in a pick up truck : :”horn broken , watch for finger”.

    I thought you guys might get a chuckle out of that .

  25. @JohnnyWalker123
    Anti-White discrimination is a major concern for Tucker Carlson.

    https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1390351702952267777

    Interestingly, Stephen Miller is pushing this too. Very rare to see a Jew with his political views.

    Carlson-Miller 2024?

    Replies: @anon, @Polistra, @TTSSYF, @AndrewR

    Stephen Miller is pushing this too. Very rare to see a Jew with his political views.

    He’s patriotic. Patriotic for America, I mean.

    Carlson-Miller 2024?

    Please don’t get my hopes up. But are two white males a nonstarter in CYA?

  26. @ScarletNumber

    Should we do this with federal employees?
     
    At the very least, there is no need for all federal agencies to be based in Washington. I don't know if I would trust the average civil servant to work from home, though, since they barely work when they are at work.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Mark G., @AnotherDad, @Known Fact

    At the very least, there is no need for all federal agencies …

    I like the way you’re going with this, Mr. Number.

    …they barely work when they are at work.

    The more barely they work, the better off Americans are as a whole, at least White Americans.

    #OutsourceFederalGovernment

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
    @Achmed E. Newman

    #AbolishFederalGovernment

  27. @Neoconned
    A lot of the libertarian types are dumb like this....white supremacist types too....think how much more these jobs pay than over hyped private sector nonsense....

    Ronald Reagan has a quote attributed to him: "the best minds aren't in govt....if they were business would steal them away...."

    Maybe in a few scenarios....from what I've seen though in large parts of the country its far far more about "who you know" than "what you know".....good old boy networks & that crap. I've been passed over for other stupid reasons....like the boss wanting youngish semi attractive to hot 18 to 35 yr old females as his asst. managers to help satiate his mid life insecurities thinking he's creating his version of Charlie's Angels....

    If white Americans were smart they'd take over the civil service as make work jobs for their friends & family.

    Trust me, govt jobs like postal jobs, goldbricker VA jobs etc pay AT LEAST double most back breaking laborious private sector jobs PLUS have Cadillac plated dental/medical/pension benefits....govt jobs are sweet.

    Instead of taking them over most libertarian types whine about minorities taking their jobs......lemme tell you from experience....the private sector is very overrated.....its why for instance even STEM professors will tell you about the glories of the private sector but squirm if you talk about taking away their professorship sinecure that usually pays high 5 figures to low 6 figures.....

    The private sector may snap up the best & brightest here and there but the private sector is largely overrated.....and the pay not so impressive.....even for STEM jobs....

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @TTSSYF, @Ron Mexico, @bomag, @Alfa158, @SimplePseudonymicHandle, @Muggles, @mjm

    Neoconned, if White Americans were allowed under AA to get any of these jobs you tout, wouldn’t they have already done so? How could you not know about Affirmative Action?

    • Thanks: GeneralRipper
    • Replies: @Neoconned
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I know about AA....i was speaking in the hypothetical where its not as issue. Sprry for the vagueness.

    , @Pericles
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Don't you have any unacceptable politicians who could launch a 'Sunset Affirmative Action' campaign? Collect the stats, put up some ads, enjoy the unhinged shrieking of one's opponents.

  28. Is this all the final nail in the coffin of the American workforce, though? As others have written, if you can work from Iowa, can’t it be from India or China? They can finally equalize salaries to a low, low level throughout the world.

    Manual/hands-on labor could get a big boost in prestige. You can’t fix the owner’s car from Bombay.

    “In a virtual company, nobody can see you downsize.” /Sigourney Weaver in her underwear movie.

    • Agree: Ed, bomag, Dnought, dfordoom
    • Replies: @gent
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The funny thing about this is that actual on-site work forces will become drastically more male and drastically Whiter because of this. Remote work is actually approximating the pre-pill sexual division of labor, as women's work largely allows them to stay at home.

    , @Barbarossa
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Exactly. I remember hearing a piece on NPR a few months ago touting how GREAT working from home would be for American IT and cyber-security gurus. They could allegedly get jobs ANYWHERE in the world!

    My immediate thought was that it would instead mean that all those jobs could just be filled by offshore folks willing to work for a quarter of the pay. That is how it has worked out for all the other "opportunities" our techno-globalist future has afforded.

    Skilled labor is where it's at, as there is a massive shortage in the building trades. If you can't fix your own toilet and both plumbers in town are booked way out, you better believe folks will pay whatever they need to for an emergency visit.

  29. @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you'll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don't forget you.

    Coinbase's announcement goes to lengths, to assure job applicants that the Bay Area won't be the de facto headquarters, so they are sensitive to this concern.

    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF. Of course, Coinbase's beancounters are probably working on ways to not let you do that as we speak.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Neoconned, @JimDandy, @ScarletNumber, @donut, @gent, @Ed, @Arclight, @Barnard, @James worthy, @Reg Cæsar

    you’ll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don’t forget you.

    What it means is that virtual meetings are the only things that matter any more. Essentially, every day has to be treated as a job interview (formality of dress and affect). The young women I work with treat it like they’re fucking streaming.

  30. @Achmed E. Newman
    Is this all the final nail in the coffin of the American workforce, though? As others have written, if you can work from Iowa, can't it be from India or China? They can finally equalize salaries to a low, low level throughout the world.

    Manual/hands-on labor could get a big boost in prestige. You can't fix the owner's car from Bombay.

    "In a virtual company, nobody can see you downsize." /Sigourney Weaver in her underwear movie.

    Replies: @gent, @Barbarossa

    The funny thing about this is that actual on-site work forces will become drastically more male and drastically Whiter because of this. Remote work is actually approximating the pre-pill sexual division of labor, as women’s work largely allows them to stay at home.

  31. Should we do this with federal employees?

    Federal employees will always be more left-leaning than the country at large. For conservatives, the best setup is to have them concentrated as much as possible in one voting district, i.e., D.C., or at least in one region, Md.-D.C.-northern Va.

    Same, incidentally, with elite tech industry workers. Better to have them concentrated in a few blue areas (S.F., Silicon Valley, L.A.) than for them to disperse into purple states. Uh oh . . .

  32. Ed says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you'll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don't forget you.

    Coinbase's announcement goes to lengths, to assure job applicants that the Bay Area won't be the de facto headquarters, so they are sensitive to this concern.

    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF. Of course, Coinbase's beancounters are probably working on ways to not let you do that as we speak.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Neoconned, @JimDandy, @ScarletNumber, @donut, @gent, @Ed, @Arclight, @Barnard, @James worthy, @Reg Cæsar

    Another issue is that if jobs are remote, who says the remote job has to be in the USA? For sure there are time zones limitations but if a CEO can move some back office operations to India or better yet a Latin American country in the same time zone, they’ll do it.

    • Replies: @gent
    @Ed


    Another issue is that if jobs are remote, who says the remote job has to be in the USA?
     
    At least for right now, remote work is still considered legally the same as on-site labor, so the same eligibility restrictions apply. How much that actually matters in practice is a different question.
  33. Should we do this with federal employees?

    Yes. Also, stop paying them.

  34. @JohnnyWalker123
    Anti-White discrimination is a major concern for Tucker Carlson.

    https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1390351702952267777

    Interestingly, Stephen Miller is pushing this too. Very rare to see a Jew with his political views.

    Carlson-Miller 2024?

    Replies: @anon, @Polistra, @TTSSYF, @AndrewR

    Trump-Stefanik?

  35. @Neoconned
    A lot of the libertarian types are dumb like this....white supremacist types too....think how much more these jobs pay than over hyped private sector nonsense....

    Ronald Reagan has a quote attributed to him: "the best minds aren't in govt....if they were business would steal them away...."

    Maybe in a few scenarios....from what I've seen though in large parts of the country its far far more about "who you know" than "what you know".....good old boy networks & that crap. I've been passed over for other stupid reasons....like the boss wanting youngish semi attractive to hot 18 to 35 yr old females as his asst. managers to help satiate his mid life insecurities thinking he's creating his version of Charlie's Angels....

    If white Americans were smart they'd take over the civil service as make work jobs for their friends & family.

    Trust me, govt jobs like postal jobs, goldbricker VA jobs etc pay AT LEAST double most back breaking laborious private sector jobs PLUS have Cadillac plated dental/medical/pension benefits....govt jobs are sweet.

    Instead of taking them over most libertarian types whine about minorities taking their jobs......lemme tell you from experience....the private sector is very overrated.....its why for instance even STEM professors will tell you about the glories of the private sector but squirm if you talk about taking away their professorship sinecure that usually pays high 5 figures to low 6 figures.....

    The private sector may snap up the best & brightest here and there but the private sector is largely overrated.....and the pay not so impressive.....even for STEM jobs....

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @TTSSYF, @Ron Mexico, @bomag, @Alfa158, @SimplePseudonymicHandle, @Muggles, @mjm

    I’d rather make less in the private sector than mark time as a government employee.

  36. If does not take a genius to realize how much money companies are wasting on commercial real estate. What is the point of people coming to the office anymore. There are no paper files to be near. There is no reason to be near the photocopier or printer. Who has a secretary anymore? Who physically meets with clients anymore.

    If one walks around a modern office building for a large corporations, it is amazing how many offices are rarely used, how few people there are, and how much wasted space there is. Any smart company would be looking for ways to reduce their footprint while teaching/hiring managers to deal with managing remote workers.

  37. @Neoconned
    A lot of the libertarian types are dumb like this....white supremacist types too....think how much more these jobs pay than over hyped private sector nonsense....

    Ronald Reagan has a quote attributed to him: "the best minds aren't in govt....if they were business would steal them away...."

    Maybe in a few scenarios....from what I've seen though in large parts of the country its far far more about "who you know" than "what you know".....good old boy networks & that crap. I've been passed over for other stupid reasons....like the boss wanting youngish semi attractive to hot 18 to 35 yr old females as his asst. managers to help satiate his mid life insecurities thinking he's creating his version of Charlie's Angels....

    If white Americans were smart they'd take over the civil service as make work jobs for their friends & family.

    Trust me, govt jobs like postal jobs, goldbricker VA jobs etc pay AT LEAST double most back breaking laborious private sector jobs PLUS have Cadillac plated dental/medical/pension benefits....govt jobs are sweet.

    Instead of taking them over most libertarian types whine about minorities taking their jobs......lemme tell you from experience....the private sector is very overrated.....its why for instance even STEM professors will tell you about the glories of the private sector but squirm if you talk about taking away their professorship sinecure that usually pays high 5 figures to low 6 figures.....

    The private sector may snap up the best & brightest here and there but the private sector is largely overrated.....and the pay not so impressive.....even for STEM jobs....

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @TTSSYF, @Ron Mexico, @bomag, @Alfa158, @SimplePseudonymicHandle, @Muggles, @mjm

    “If white Americans were smart they’d take over the civil service as make work jobs for their friends & family.”
    This is how Stalin seized control of USSR.

  38. Should we do this with federal employees?

    A good start would be to move the Supreme Court to Detroit: a better idea, I think, than inflicting it on some blameless small town.

  39. @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you'll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don't forget you.

    Coinbase's announcement goes to lengths, to assure job applicants that the Bay Area won't be the de facto headquarters, so they are sensitive to this concern.

    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF. Of course, Coinbase's beancounters are probably working on ways to not let you do that as we speak.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Neoconned, @JimDandy, @ScarletNumber, @donut, @gent, @Ed, @Arclight, @Barnard, @James worthy, @Reg Cæsar

    I believe Salesforce has announced it will be allowing workers to remain remote but that they aren’t going to pay SF wages if you don’t actually live there, either.

    Worth noting that they a) built the largest skyscraper in its home city of SF just a couple of years ago and b) around the same time having become the largest tenant in the tallest building in Indianapolis, which is its 2nd largest office location. That’s a lot of overhead cost they are stuck with.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Arclight


    Worth noting that they a) built the largest skyscraper in its home city of SF just a couple of years ago
     
    Salesforce didn't build the tower--some sort of public-organized redevelopment project--they're just the anchor tenant. (And presumably their multi-year lease could be sub-leased or sold.)

    But i did think when i first saw this building a couple years ago, "do all these techie people even understand which way their own technology is pushing the world?"

    , @Anonymous
    @Arclight

    Theyve become a roll up play. Overspent on that and 4 other bs software for sales acquisitions


    SELL

    , @dfordoom
    @Arclight


    I believe Salesforce has announced it will be allowing workers to remain remote but that they aren’t going to pay SF wages if you don’t actually live there, either.
     
    Remote workers will become a new underclass. A kind of lumpenproletariat. Badly paid with no benefits and even less security than they have now.

    But hey, profits will go up.
  40. Anonymous[331] • Disclaimer says:
    @James B. Shearer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    "Get a job with a high-paying Silicon Valley firm that offers a remote-work option. Then move to a low-cost place (Tampa, Nashville, Phoenix, etc.), while commuting online."

    Or pay someone in China a fraction of your salary to do the work. See this story. Which you may believe or not.

    Replies: @Clyde, @Anonymous, @bomag

    Boomers already failed miserably at offshoring jobs to India. Remember when ol’ Jack Welch was blathering on about all of the talent in India, just waiting to be unleashed?

    As it turns out, India is dysfunctional because, as a collective group, Indians are dishonest and dysfunctional. They require constant supervision. The Chinese are better. But the cultural gains are offset by Asian passiveness.

    If anything, remote work will probably help US workers, since remote work requires cultural cohesiveness and an assumption of honesty. Currently, the companies that have embraced remote work skew White. OTOH, companies that most highly rely on H1B labor will resist remote work the most. They know it will be a disaster with a diverse, international workforce.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Anonymous

    Asian passiveness?

    , @sayless
    @Anonymous

    /Boomers already failed miserably at offshoring jobs to India/

    Well dammit, Number Three-Thirty-One, I did my best. Why don't you try? Shkreli might be able to use an aide-de-camp. Reach out.

  41. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Neoconned

    Neoconned, if White Americans were allowed under AA to get any of these jobs you tout, wouldn't they have already done so? How could you not know about Affirmative Action?

    Replies: @Neoconned, @Pericles

    I know about AA….i was speaking in the hypothetical where its not as issue. Sprry for the vagueness.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  42. @Not Raul
    @Steve Sailer

    If their workers can work remotely from Calcutta, they’ll save even more money.

    SF Bay Area rents are very high, so they’ll save a lot of money even if they don’t use this as an opportunity to get more lower wage third world labor . . . but of course they will.

    Replies: @Neoconned, @Dr. DoomNGloom, @TomSchmidt

    f their workers can work remotely from Calcutta, they’ll save even more money.

    At least nominally. It’s not distance, it’s time zones. I’ve seen business people from Poughkeepsie on the phoning or skyping developers in Mexico City. It could just as easily be Montevideo or Buenos Aires. It’s easier to work with someone in the same time zone thousands of miles away than with someone on the opposite coast.

  43. gent says:
    @Ed
    @Steve Sailer

    Another issue is that if jobs are remote, who says the remote job has to be in the USA? For sure there are time zones limitations but if a CEO can move some back office operations to India or better yet a Latin American country in the same time zone, they’ll do it.

    Replies: @gent

    Another issue is that if jobs are remote, who says the remote job has to be in the USA?

    At least for right now, remote work is still considered legally the same as on-site labor, so the same eligibility restrictions apply. How much that actually matters in practice is a different question.

  44. anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

    Crypto traders tend to be fairly red-pilled. It also says a lot when Coinbase is willing to include this photo in their press release. MSM always tries to downplay certain physiognomies.

  45. Is there a credible way to confirm virtual work is being done? I loved the other day on this game show my wife was watching they asked the female contestant what she did for a living….”I’m a virtual teacher….m”

    I thought man i need to get in on that racket…..

  46. @Neoconned
    A lot of the libertarian types are dumb like this....white supremacist types too....think how much more these jobs pay than over hyped private sector nonsense....

    Ronald Reagan has a quote attributed to him: "the best minds aren't in govt....if they were business would steal them away...."

    Maybe in a few scenarios....from what I've seen though in large parts of the country its far far more about "who you know" than "what you know".....good old boy networks & that crap. I've been passed over for other stupid reasons....like the boss wanting youngish semi attractive to hot 18 to 35 yr old females as his asst. managers to help satiate his mid life insecurities thinking he's creating his version of Charlie's Angels....

    If white Americans were smart they'd take over the civil service as make work jobs for their friends & family.

    Trust me, govt jobs like postal jobs, goldbricker VA jobs etc pay AT LEAST double most back breaking laborious private sector jobs PLUS have Cadillac plated dental/medical/pension benefits....govt jobs are sweet.

    Instead of taking them over most libertarian types whine about minorities taking their jobs......lemme tell you from experience....the private sector is very overrated.....its why for instance even STEM professors will tell you about the glories of the private sector but squirm if you talk about taking away their professorship sinecure that usually pays high 5 figures to low 6 figures.....

    The private sector may snap up the best & brightest here and there but the private sector is largely overrated.....and the pay not so impressive.....even for STEM jobs....

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @TTSSYF, @Ron Mexico, @bomag, @Alfa158, @SimplePseudonymicHandle, @Muggles, @mjm

    govt jobs are sweet

    From a distance; and some are a good gig; but many of them crush your soul.

  47. @ScarletNumber

    Should we do this with federal employees?
     
    At the very least, there is no need for all federal agencies to be based in Washington. I don't know if I would trust the average civil servant to work from home, though, since they barely work when they are at work.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Mark G., @AnotherDad, @Known Fact

    At the very least, there is no need for all federal agencies to be based in Washington.

    When military contracts are passed out they often end up going to companies in low cost states. The lowest bidder will get the contract and companies in states with lower labor and other costs have an advantage. These low cost states are often the red states rather than high cost blue states like New York.

    You will sometimes see the argument made that red states get more federal government money than blue states, the implication being that red states are getting welfare paid for by blue states. A lot of this money is in reality these government contracts going to businesses who won the contracts due to the better tax and regulatory policies put in place by Republicans in those states that keep costs of doing business down.

    When the federal government is controlled by Democrats, they have a good reason to try to circumvent this process. They may not be able to keep the money from going out to red states but they can increase the amount of affirmative action used when passing out contracts so the money and jobs will go to Democrat voters in Republican states. Even when they aren’t using contracts and are just setting up government operations staffed with civil servants, affirmative action can still be used to reward blue voters residing in non-blue states.

  48. @JohnnyWalker123
    Arbitrage opportunity.

    Get a job with a high-paying Silicon Valley firm that offers a remote-work option. Then move to a low-cost place (Tampa, Nashville, Phoenix, etc.), while commuting online.

    $150K/yr in San Jose is middle-class. In Tampa, it's good money.

    You can upgrade your economic class substantially through that one simple strategy.

    How awesome is that?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @James B. Shearer, @Anon, @The Alarmist, @epebble, @Muggles

    FaceBag already signaled long ago that employees wages would be adjusted to the local market in which they were actually living and working. That is not an idle threat for someone who can be replaced one-for-one or even two-for-one by someone is South Asia or Eastern Europe.

    Unless you are a serious rainmaker and able to operate on the global stage, you can be one of the most talented cogs and still be replaceable.

  49. @ScarletNumber
    @Steve Sailer


    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF.
     
    The feds figured this out years ago, where your salary of $X is augmented by a cost-of-living adjustment. This applies in the military as well. Of course in the private sector if you don't like what your adjusted salary is, you could always negotiate a higher base salary if you are in high enough demand.

    the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you’ll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don’t forget you.
     
    This is true, as promotions aren't given out by any sort of merit system.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    The feds figured this out years ago, where your salary of $X is augmented by a cost-of-living adjustment.

    That’s true, but the average Fed in the DC area is a GS-13 which before a COLA is about $90k. That’s not much in a high priced area but goes a long way in flyover country.

    WRT moving Feds out of Washington: One of DJT’s minions tried to move about 500 jobs in, IIRC, some agriculture related agency to Kansas City and the employees went nuts. I don’t know if it ever happened, but you’d have thought they were being sent to a Siberian gulag for all the yelling and screaming that went on.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Jim Don Bob


    some agriculture related agency to Kansas City and the employees went nuts
     
    Exactly. You would think the Department of Agriculture, of all things, should be located in the midwest. The Economic Research Service and the National Institute of Food and Agriculture branches are the ones making the move. I would be more aggressive and move the whole thing.

    While it isn't a governmental agency per se, the NCAA has survived just fine, first in the Kansas suburbs of Kansas City and now in Indianapolis.
    , @Alden
    @Jim Don Bob

    That’s because most federal employees are black Hispanic Chinese and or some variety of gay. The black ones especially don’t want to leave their beloved District of Chocolate and S. E. Maryland. Those big fed buildings are like Lagos at 5PM, no other race but blacks rushing out.

    , @R.G. Camara
    @Jim Don Bob

    Many of the good government types of the non-Deep State variety have posited that instead of cutting government jobs or cutting the budgets, the feds could move various federal agencies' headquarters so that they are spread about the country, especially in various depressed/smaller cities. E.g. Buffalo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Madison, St. Louis, Kansas City, Boise, Cheyanne, Santa Fe, Albuquerque, Tucson, Amarillo, San Antonio, etc.

    The head guys could fly into Washington whenever they had congressional hearings, but no one else would have to live in D.C.

    Even though this would help those cities gain employment and infrastructure jobs, and "spread the government wealth" and make red-state folks less hostile to government spending, and decrease costs (employees and infrastructure would cost less to maintain in Buffalo or Cleveland than in D.C.), the Deep State folks in D.C. hate the idea and fight hard against it.

    , @Hhsiii
    @Jim Don Bob

    The money would go a lot further, but sometimes people just don’t want to move. It’s a hassle.

  50. Steve, Coinbase did a ‘woke’ purge last year to dress itself up for its IPO. But to your point, once you realise you don’t need the problem children, you don’t need to be where the problem children are clustered; but you still find plenty of problem children even in flyover country, so you have to make sure you define the corporate culture and mission appropriately:

    [MORE]

    Coinbase is a mission focused company

    Everyone is asking the question about how companies should engage in broader societal issues during these difficult times, while keeping their teams united and focused on the mission. Coinbase has had its own challenges here, including employee walkouts. I decided to share publicly how I’m addressing this in case it helps others navigate a path through these challenging times.

    In short, I want Coinbase to be laser focused on achieving its mission, because I believe that this is the way that we can have the biggest impact on the world. We will do this by playing as a championship team, focus on building, and being transparent about what our mission is and isn’t.

    … [skipping to the bottom line]

    We won’t:

    * Debate causes or political candidates internally that are unrelated to work
    * Expect the company to represent our personal beliefs externally
    * Assume negative intent, or not have each others back
    * Take on activism outside of our core mission at work

    I recognize that our approach is not for everyone, and may be controversial. I know that many people may not agree, and some employees may resign. I also know that some of what I’ve written above will be misinterpreted, whether accidentally or on purpose. But I believe it’s the right approach for Coinbase that will set us up for success long term, and I would rather be honest and transparent about that than equivocate and work in a company that is not aligned.

    source: https://blog.coinbase.com/coinbase-is-a-mission-focused-company-af882df8804

    They then proceded buying out a number of the problem children.

    • Replies: @anon
    @The Alarmist

    They then proceded buying out a number of the problem children.

    One third (1/3) of the workforce, in fact. Probably the least productive and most contentious 1/3.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

  51. “Is closing your downtown HQ a good way for a firm to reduce its chance of being held hostage by woke employees?”

    If you are a small firm (< 200 employees) yes. But I’ll be contrarian today.

    In the spirit of the old joke where the punchline is “Alright everybody, coffee break is over, back to standing on your heads.”, big firms are starting to tell remote workers “OK folks, play time is over, back to the office.” I’ve seen stories that JP Morgan Chase is “ordering” workers back into their offices. I figure now that the vaccines are rolling out, more companies will start bringing people to HQ. I base this on:

    1) Economics. High placed folks are probably seeing a potential collapse in commercial real estate prices, and if we send people back to the office, there’s a reason to pay the lease costs associated with a big HQ. Plus I’m betting mayors of major blue cities are sweetening the deal with tax cuts to nudge CEOs to bring workers back downtown and bring their sweet, taxable pay to prop up public transportation and help restore the tax base by getting workers to spend money in businesses downtown.

    2) Markers of status. How can a CEO show he or she has “Made It” via a Zoom call in their home office? You NEED the corner office at the top of MegaCorp tower, or the big, wood paneled conference room with executive chairs (and video hook up) to show You Mean Business! I suspect the egos of many have been taken down a peg working from home.

    3) Old habits die hard. How can I manage people if I can’t see them or call them into my cube, office, or conference room? Also if people are in the office we can monitor their internet usage (and block sites) much easier. Nips wrong thinking in the bud.

    Based on all this, I imagine people will be pulled back into the office, and office politics, within the next year. It will be interesting to see which companies want people in HQ full time, demand at least one day a week in office, or allow full remote access, and the effects on employee retention and morale.

  52. @ScarletNumber

    Should we do this with federal employees?
     
    At the very least, there is no need for all federal agencies to be based in Washington. I don't know if I would trust the average civil servant to work from home, though, since they barely work when they are at work.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Mark G., @AnotherDad, @Known Fact

    Getting the various federal agencies out of Washington and broken up so the employees have spouses and neighbors and friends who are regular Americans actually earning a living–long overdue.

    There’s no reason for America to have a royal court. If you don’t want imperial politics, don’t have an imperial capital.

    • Agree: kaganovitch, J.Ross, Forbes
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @AnotherDad

    My brother works for the VA and his wife works for the Dept of the Interior. Both live 2,000 miles from DC and work at a federal building (or at home)

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Alden

  53. @JohnnyWalker123
    Anti-White discrimination is a major concern for Tucker Carlson.

    https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1390351702952267777

    Interestingly, Stephen Miller is pushing this too. Very rare to see a Jew with his political views.

    Carlson-Miller 2024?

    Replies: @anon, @Polistra, @TTSSYF, @AndrewR

    Not sure if they’re all being serious. They seem to think “anti-racist” means “against all racial bias” when in fact it just means anti-white.

  54. @Arclight
    @Steve Sailer

    I believe Salesforce has announced it will be allowing workers to remain remote but that they aren't going to pay SF wages if you don't actually live there, either.

    Worth noting that they a) built the largest skyscraper in its home city of SF just a couple of years ago and b) around the same time having become the largest tenant in the tallest building in Indianapolis, which is its 2nd largest office location. That's a lot of overhead cost they are stuck with.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Anonymous, @dfordoom

    Worth noting that they a) built the largest skyscraper in its home city of SF just a couple of years ago

    Salesforce didn’t build the tower–some sort of public-organized redevelopment project–they’re just the anchor tenant. (And presumably their multi-year lease could be sub-leased or sold.)

    But i did think when i first saw this building a couple years ago, “do all these techie people even understand which way their own technology is pushing the world?”

  55. @AnotherDad
    @ScarletNumber

    Getting the various federal agencies out of Washington and broken up so the employees have spouses and neighbors and friends who are regular Americans actually earning a living--long overdue.

    There's no reason for America to have a royal court. If you don't want imperial politics, don't have an imperial capital.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    My brother works for the VA and his wife works for the Dept of the Interior. Both live 2,000 miles from DC and work at a federal building (or at home)

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @AndrewR

    Well if there is a federal agency that can justify being outside of DC, it's the Department of the Interior.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Alden
    @AndrewR

    Now I definitely absolutely know you are black. I was pretty sure when you defended a black man, Philip Adams who slaughtered 6 Whites. By claiming the racist hate mass murder was
    “ a very complicated incident.” But if your brother works for the VA, it’s 100 percent certain you’re black. You’re black.

  56. @Not Raul
    @Steve Sailer

    If their workers can work remotely from Calcutta, they’ll save even more money.

    SF Bay Area rents are very high, so they’ll save a lot of money even if they don’t use this as an opportunity to get more lower wage third world labor . . . but of course they will.

    Replies: @Neoconned, @Dr. DoomNGloom, @TomSchmidt

    Yes, this is coming. No reason to pay first-world wages for virtual/remote work unless you’re getting first world value. If you get that value in India, why not?

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @TomSchmidt


    If you get that value in India, why not?
     
    But you usually can't.

    Replies: @SaneClownPosse

  57. Anon7 says:

    “Is closing your downtown HQ a good way for a firm to reduce its chance of being held hostage by woke employees?”

    The other side of this coin is that these companies are not hiring small town people. They are distributing their woke Leftist people to small towns, where they will alter the demographics of those towns, turning them into socialist paradise towns.

  58. I can tell you that a lot of federal agencies have already gone to full-time telework since March of 2020, and no word as to when and if they will go back.

  59. @Anon
    You'd need to also find a replacement for Slack that is less of an internal version of Twitter.

    Ideally you'd ban mobile phones and make internet access limited to people with a business need, only when needed, but with remote work that's not going to work.

    Could you ban the use and possession of personal social media outside of work, legally? Say, for a 20 percent salary premium over market? Refundable, with attorney's fees, if it turns out you lied?

    Replies: @Polistra, @Pericles, @Barack Obama's secret Unz account, @Alexander Turok

    You’d need to also find a replacement for Slack that is less of an internal version of Twitter.

    Perhaps they could instead license a private version of Unz.com? (Max 3 comments per hour.)

  60. @Desiderius

    Should we do this with federal employees?
     
    We, kimosabe?

    Boomers are so cute when they pretend their government is a VFW chapter.

    Replies: @Achilleus

    We, kimosabe?

    Boomers are so cute when they pretend their government is a VFW chapter.

    Like a peasant deciding which palace Emperor Franz Joseph should move the court and his ministers to.

  61. Steve, the feds are already doing this. I know of several agencies here in DC who are now making the transition from ‘brick and mortar’ to telework a permanent situation for a sizable fraction of their employees. Those telework categories include data processing and entry, record retrieval and archiving, personnel management, etc. Basically things that you don’t need to commute for 45 minutes, gossip for hours over the water cooler, take extended lunches in order to do, etc. More interestingly, several of the law enforcement officers that I work with are going to start ‘reporting on the road’ from their residences, instead of reporting to a desk first thing in the morning; similar to how rural sheriff deputies work. This scattershot, decentralized approach worked well when I was located in the rural Midwest, since everyone lived so far apart, but we’ll see how this works in the urban centers. The employees definitely prefer this arrangement, since it makes commutes, child care, work hours and so much more flexible and manageable. I know that many commenters on the site view law enforcement (especially feds) as the enemy, but try to keep in mind that most are former military white guys who still believe in the flag, and aren’t happy either as to how the current political winds are shifting.

    In brief, the pandemic produced an involuntary proof of concept that demonstrated some employees function more efficiently and are far happier with a mix of telework and centralized work. In addition, downtown DC leases are expensive, what with overhead, maintenance, cleaning contracts, etc. The thinking is to allow some employees a “2 on 3 out” arrangement, or some such, where they’ll work from home for two or three days, then work in the office for the balance.

    I’ve heard that fed offices in NY, Miami, LA, Chicago, etc. are under a mandate to propose similar arrangements with their personnel.

  62. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Neoconned

    Neoconned, if White Americans were allowed under AA to get any of these jobs you tout, wouldn't they have already done so? How could you not know about Affirmative Action?

    Replies: @Neoconned, @Pericles

    Don’t you have any unacceptable politicians who could launch a ‘Sunset Affirmative Action’ campaign? Collect the stats, put up some ads, enjoy the unhinged shrieking of one’s opponents.

  63. Interesting article on the psychodrama of the woke workplace. Just as college is no longer a place you go to get an education, but a place you to get politically indoctrinated, many graduates now feel that the workplace is no longer a place you go to work, but a place you go to argue about politics.

    My one full-time job was at a NY ad agency, from which I was laid off 20 years ago. While I was there I recall NO arguments about politics between the employees. It wasn’t even a corporate policy, it was just understood it was not appropriate at the workplace.

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/3/22418208/basecamp-all-hands-meeting-employee-resignations-buyouts-implosion

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Harry Baldwin

    Harry, even 30 years ago, the reason we didn't argue about politics at work was because we all pretty much agreed. That's just one more way it pays (or at least did pay) off to work in certain fields with 95% guys who are bound to be conservative. Believe you me, we talked about all sorts of stuff during lunch at the cafeteria, but there was no reason to argue about politics.

    Nowadays, I am in different field but one with fortunately, for me, the same story. The difference I see now is that the big cheeses write emails about once every 2 weeks on average in order to go along with the woke shit, and then proceed to tell us at the bottom that this is why we shouldn't be talking politics on the job. It's very Orwellian, that part. OTOH, I just happened to have run into the head HR lady recently, at first not knowing who she was (that's a GOOD THING!). We talked for a while, and I could see from her lack of concern about either us wearing a face mask at 2 ft apart and other remarks that she wasn't really down with all the stupidity espoused in the emails.

    Someone at that level must play along, not a great thing character-wise, but she was an honestly nice lady, just doing that fitting-in thing ...

    .

    Oh, I'll check out your link, Harry. You make a good point that each major institution in our lives is getting worse in this way.

    , @Mark G.
    @Harry Baldwin


    While I was there I recall NO arguments about politics between the employees. It wasn’t even a corporate policy, it was just understood it was not appropriate at the workplace.
     
    I work a civilian job in the military. We were recently sent to a class on the dangers of extremist white nationalists. Not extremist leftists like Antifa- no problem there! The class started off by saying we are supposed to defend the Constitution, a sentiment I agree with. Then near the end of the class we were told that if you join the military you lose your freedom of speech. If that meant not talking politics while on the job, that's sensible but it was left ambiguous whether it applied even during non-work hours. Freedom of speech is in the Bill of Rights and that is part of the Constitution so no one who works for the military should be telling anyone else who works for the military they don't have freedom of speech. The person who does that is himself not defending the Constitution.
  64. Keyser Soze was a pioneer of the Remote/Gig Economy. Mr. Kobayashi explains:

    One cannot be betrayed if one has no people.

  65. This “we don’t have a home office” plan sounds like a dodge for keeping away from search warrants and court subpoenas. So, a practical preparation for an envisioned future.

    • Replies: @additionalMike
    @John Mansfield

    Certainly a sweet plan when it comes to traditional searches, Mr. Mansfield. But the "documents," so to speak, will be shared electronically among those personnel who must have access to them. The more widely the files are dispersed, the more vulnerable they will be to search.
    Of course, if the target has Hillary or Hunter-level political mojo, it won't matter what is found. Electronic files are easy to pretend out of existence.

  66. @James B. Shearer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    "Get a job with a high-paying Silicon Valley firm that offers a remote-work option. Then move to a low-cost place (Tampa, Nashville, Phoenix, etc.), while commuting online."

    Or pay someone in China a fraction of your salary to do the work. See this story. Which you may believe or not.

    Replies: @Clyde, @Anonymous, @bomag

    The linked story: does that count as renting out your job (payment in labor)?

  67. @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you'll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don't forget you.

    Coinbase's announcement goes to lengths, to assure job applicants that the Bay Area won't be the de facto headquarters, so they are sensitive to this concern.

    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF. Of course, Coinbase's beancounters are probably working on ways to not let you do that as we speak.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Neoconned, @JimDandy, @ScarletNumber, @donut, @gent, @Ed, @Arclight, @Barnard, @James worthy, @Reg Cæsar

    Seems like it would well be worth for the average person to live somewhere better at 60-70% of the pay they would get for living in Silicon Valley. Two other big problems are, it becomes even easier to “downsize” a remote workforce and feeling like you are locked in to that job with good networking opportunities. It could be easier for the company to turn the screws on remote employees if they feel like they will have an easier time replacing them with someone from anywhere in the world than the employee would be able to find another job.

  68. @Neoconned
    A lot of the libertarian types are dumb like this....white supremacist types too....think how much more these jobs pay than over hyped private sector nonsense....

    Ronald Reagan has a quote attributed to him: "the best minds aren't in govt....if they were business would steal them away...."

    Maybe in a few scenarios....from what I've seen though in large parts of the country its far far more about "who you know" than "what you know".....good old boy networks & that crap. I've been passed over for other stupid reasons....like the boss wanting youngish semi attractive to hot 18 to 35 yr old females as his asst. managers to help satiate his mid life insecurities thinking he's creating his version of Charlie's Angels....

    If white Americans were smart they'd take over the civil service as make work jobs for their friends & family.

    Trust me, govt jobs like postal jobs, goldbricker VA jobs etc pay AT LEAST double most back breaking laborious private sector jobs PLUS have Cadillac plated dental/medical/pension benefits....govt jobs are sweet.

    Instead of taking them over most libertarian types whine about minorities taking their jobs......lemme tell you from experience....the private sector is very overrated.....its why for instance even STEM professors will tell you about the glories of the private sector but squirm if you talk about taking away their professorship sinecure that usually pays high 5 figures to low 6 figures.....

    The private sector may snap up the best & brightest here and there but the private sector is largely overrated.....and the pay not so impressive.....even for STEM jobs....

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @TTSSYF, @Ron Mexico, @bomag, @Alfa158, @SimplePseudonymicHandle, @Muggles, @mjm

    That’s all very well, but the problem is that the government doesn’t like straight White men and actively discriminates against them, so getting those jobs isn’t so easy, and even if you get one, you will get passed over for promotions in favor of pet groups.
    One exception is the defense industry. I know a very sharp electronics engineer who got a job with a defense contractor which is effectively a government job. Same sort of higher pay, benefits and retirement plan as a government job. The defense industry is having a tough time finding smart engineers who can qualify for a security clearance and are willing to work at a job that doesn’t offer stock options and equity in the company. The employer kept jacking up the salary offers to him until he finally accepted on the further conditions that they start him out with six weeks vacation in the bank and allow him to work from home most days. (His boss actually fled California and was already working remotely.) He finds the job kind of boring compared to the go-go tech start-ups he worked at before, and finds himself doing things like finishing his part of a project, and then twiddling his thumbs for weeks while everyone catches up with their tasks. However, he will ride it out until he is ready to cash out and flee the state.

  69. @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you'll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don't forget you.

    Coinbase's announcement goes to lengths, to assure job applicants that the Bay Area won't be the de facto headquarters, so they are sensitive to this concern.

    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF. Of course, Coinbase's beancounters are probably working on ways to not let you do that as we speak.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Neoconned, @JimDandy, @ScarletNumber, @donut, @gent, @Ed, @Arclight, @Barnard, @James worthy, @Reg Cæsar

    Google and other tech multinationals already figured out this cost of living adjustment.

    The real question is how much they can nationalize or internationalize their job pool. In SF it’s believed that SF engineers are paid more not just because SF is expensive but because the best move to SF for the high pay.

    Internationalization presents cultural integration issues. SF tech startups have a culture of agreeable disagreeableness which is hard to translate to caste cultures like India, though they can take ambitious Indians who move to SF and change their behavior.

  70. Skynet

    The T is World War T stands for trans-organic. This is no joke.

  71. @Neoconned
    A lot of the libertarian types are dumb like this....white supremacist types too....think how much more these jobs pay than over hyped private sector nonsense....

    Ronald Reagan has a quote attributed to him: "the best minds aren't in govt....if they were business would steal them away...."

    Maybe in a few scenarios....from what I've seen though in large parts of the country its far far more about "who you know" than "what you know".....good old boy networks & that crap. I've been passed over for other stupid reasons....like the boss wanting youngish semi attractive to hot 18 to 35 yr old females as his asst. managers to help satiate his mid life insecurities thinking he's creating his version of Charlie's Angels....

    If white Americans were smart they'd take over the civil service as make work jobs for their friends & family.

    Trust me, govt jobs like postal jobs, goldbricker VA jobs etc pay AT LEAST double most back breaking laborious private sector jobs PLUS have Cadillac plated dental/medical/pension benefits....govt jobs are sweet.

    Instead of taking them over most libertarian types whine about minorities taking their jobs......lemme tell you from experience....the private sector is very overrated.....its why for instance even STEM professors will tell you about the glories of the private sector but squirm if you talk about taking away their professorship sinecure that usually pays high 5 figures to low 6 figures.....

    The private sector may snap up the best & brightest here and there but the private sector is largely overrated.....and the pay not so impressive.....even for STEM jobs....

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @TTSSYF, @Ron Mexico, @bomag, @Alfa158, @SimplePseudonymicHandle, @Muggles, @mjm

    squirm if you talk about taking away their professorship sinecure that usually pays high 5 figures to low 6 figures…..

    You have no idea what you’re talking about, do you?

  72. @Achmed E. Newman
    Is this all the final nail in the coffin of the American workforce, though? As others have written, if you can work from Iowa, can't it be from India or China? They can finally equalize salaries to a low, low level throughout the world.

    Manual/hands-on labor could get a big boost in prestige. You can't fix the owner's car from Bombay.

    "In a virtual company, nobody can see you downsize." /Sigourney Weaver in her underwear movie.

    Replies: @gent, @Barbarossa

    Exactly. I remember hearing a piece on NPR a few months ago touting how GREAT working from home would be for American IT and cyber-security gurus. They could allegedly get jobs ANYWHERE in the world!

    My immediate thought was that it would instead mean that all those jobs could just be filled by offshore folks willing to work for a quarter of the pay. That is how it has worked out for all the other “opportunities” our techno-globalist future has afforded.

    Skilled labor is where it’s at, as there is a massive shortage in the building trades. If you can’t fix your own toilet and both plumbers in town are booked way out, you better believe folks will pay whatever they need to for an emergency visit.

  73. @Harry Baldwin
    Interesting article on the psychodrama of the woke workplace. Just as college is no longer a place you go to get an education, but a place you to get politically indoctrinated, many graduates now feel that the workplace is no longer a place you go to work, but a place you go to argue about politics.

    My one full-time job was at a NY ad agency, from which I was laid off 20 years ago. While I was there I recall NO arguments about politics between the employees. It wasn't even a corporate policy, it was just understood it was not appropriate at the workplace.

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/3/22418208/basecamp-all-hands-meeting-employee-resignations-buyouts-implosion

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Mark G.

    Harry, even 30 years ago, the reason we didn’t argue about politics at work was because we all pretty much agreed. That’s just one more way it pays (or at least did pay) off to work in certain fields with 95% guys who are bound to be conservative. Believe you me, we talked about all sorts of stuff during lunch at the cafeteria, but there was no reason to argue about politics.

    Nowadays, I am in different field but one with fortunately, for me, the same story. The difference I see now is that the big cheeses write emails about once every 2 weeks on average in order to go along with the woke shit, and then proceed to tell us at the bottom that this is why we shouldn’t be talking politics on the job. It’s very Orwellian, that part. OTOH, I just happened to have run into the head HR lady recently, at first not knowing who she was (that’s a GOOD THING!). We talked for a while, and I could see from her lack of concern about either us wearing a face mask at 2 ft apart and other remarks that she wasn’t really down with all the stupidity espoused in the emails.

    Someone at that level must play along, not a great thing character-wise, but she was an honestly nice lady, just doing that fitting-in thing …

    .

    Oh, I’ll check out your link, Harry. You make a good point that each major institution in our lives is getting worse in this way.

  74. Self-appointed?

    When you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.

  75. @Anon
    You'd need to also find a replacement for Slack that is less of an internal version of Twitter.

    Ideally you'd ban mobile phones and make internet access limited to people with a business need, only when needed, but with remote work that's not going to work.

    Could you ban the use and possession of personal social media outside of work, legally? Say, for a 20 percent salary premium over market? Refundable, with attorney's fees, if it turns out you lied?

    Replies: @Polistra, @Pericles, @Barack Obama's secret Unz account, @Alexander Turok

    You’d need to also find a replacement for Slack…

    I really don’t understand this aspect of modern business: first, that, despite all this communications technology, companies still prefer to concentrate all their workers in a tall building in the middle of a big city; second, that, when they do let the employees work remotely, they insist that they spend the entire day communicating with each other as much as if they were in an office: phone, e-mail, Zoom, Slack (the clue is in the name there)…

    In ye olden days, the East India Company and others were able to run enormous global enterprises despite the fact that it took months to get a message from London to Bombay. Similarly, in WW2, the Wermacht supposedly gave a lot of autonomy to field commanders.

    I guess the point I’m making is why can’t modern companies just set goals, targets, and other parameters, and turn their employees loose? “Give me a quarterly report and make sure the numbers have gone up x%.”

    My suspicion is that, for quite a lot of jobs, if you took out Zoom meetings, there’d be nothing left.

    • Agree: Mark G.
  76. Federal “workers” are economic negatives. The less coordinating, implementing, whatevering they do the better.

    Keep them at home, at the same “pay”, but move their charge numbers to the welfare rolls. Aid for college educated parents with dependent children.

    Government accounting reform.

  77. @JohnnyWalker123
    Arbitrage opportunity.

    Get a job with a high-paying Silicon Valley firm that offers a remote-work option. Then move to a low-cost place (Tampa, Nashville, Phoenix, etc.), while commuting online.

    $150K/yr in San Jose is middle-class. In Tampa, it's good money.

    You can upgrade your economic class substantially through that one simple strategy.

    How awesome is that?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @James B. Shearer, @Anon, @The Alarmist, @epebble, @Muggles

    They normally offer $110K/yr for the same job if you work from Portland, OR. Actually, I like the offer since you don’t have to move and there is no commuting. After taxes, the differences are narrower still. All in all, it is a plus for everyone.

    • Thanks: JohnnyWalker123
  78. @ScarletNumber

    Should we do this with federal employees?
     
    At the very least, there is no need for all federal agencies to be based in Washington. I don't know if I would trust the average civil servant to work from home, though, since they barely work when they are at work.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Mark G., @AnotherDad, @Known Fact

    Let’s send state workers home too. Although it’ll seem pretty weird going to someone’s house to get your driver’s license renewed

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Known Fact


    Although it’ll seem pretty weird going to someone’s house to get your driver’s license renewed
     
    Well in New Jersey it's not like you have to physically go to Trenton to do this; there are MVC offices set up throughout the state. The problems with them are:

    • They are staffed by government employees, a problem which is self-evident

    • Because of COVID they are being even lazier than usual, using any excuse to reduce hours and not take walk-ins

    • Ironically, the offices are evenly distributed throughout the state without much regard for population distribution. Therefore, the lines and waits along the 95 corridor are unbearable. The last time I needed to go the line outside my local office was so bad that I drove 45 minutes to an office in a less-densely populated part of the state. They were so surprised when I walked in because they weren't used to getting customers. I was in-and-out in about 15 minutes. Therefore my total time was 1:45. Out of curiosity, on my way home I drove past my local office and I recognized some of the same people still waiting in line...
  79. @JohnnyWalker123
    Arbitrage opportunity.

    Get a job with a high-paying Silicon Valley firm that offers a remote-work option. Then move to a low-cost place (Tampa, Nashville, Phoenix, etc.), while commuting online.

    $150K/yr in San Jose is middle-class. In Tampa, it's good money.

    You can upgrade your economic class substantially through that one simple strategy.

    How awesome is that?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @James B. Shearer, @Anon, @The Alarmist, @epebble, @Muggles

    Re: home town wages vs. cost-of-living arbitrage idea.

    Yes many are now doing that if they can.

    Several flies in this ointment however.

    First, very few large firms are totally eliminating offices. Almost zero. And unless they do that you the employee are still normally required to show up at the office once a week or whatever the schedule says. In person meetings are much more productive for some things.

    Second, companies with remote workers aren’t dumb. Some are now setting wages to the local area where remote workers are now living. That is if you live in a low cost area your pay will be adjusted down (or offered less, if new) than those who remain in expensive large urban centers. Only very high demand workers, like my IT bro-in-law, can still get the same pay for living on a mountaintop, practically. Even he has to fly out for clients, etc.

    For many types of jobs customer face time and boss face time is important.

    Still for some kinds of businesses decentralization of employment is an ongoing trend driven by both employers who save on office rent and employees who may enjoy better environments and lower costs of living.

    Uncle Joe & Co. will, if in power long enough, want to “normalize” employee racial and “equity” numbers by demanding quotas for geographically bunched (mainly) POC to be hired to “balance out” smarter Galt’s Gulch whites who prefer Smallville to Little Kolkutta or Floydville in large urban areas. No hiding out from Big Sister’s dictats! .

    • Agree: Lot, joe_mama
    • Replies: @Abolish_public_education
    @Muggles

    The credentialed babysitters unions are going to insist, during their next contract negotiation, that members be allowed to “teach” from home.

    Naturally, their shares of government spending will go up.

    Taxpayers are a bunch of suckers.

  80. @Neoconned
    A lot of the libertarian types are dumb like this....white supremacist types too....think how much more these jobs pay than over hyped private sector nonsense....

    Ronald Reagan has a quote attributed to him: "the best minds aren't in govt....if they were business would steal them away...."

    Maybe in a few scenarios....from what I've seen though in large parts of the country its far far more about "who you know" than "what you know".....good old boy networks & that crap. I've been passed over for other stupid reasons....like the boss wanting youngish semi attractive to hot 18 to 35 yr old females as his asst. managers to help satiate his mid life insecurities thinking he's creating his version of Charlie's Angels....

    If white Americans were smart they'd take over the civil service as make work jobs for their friends & family.

    Trust me, govt jobs like postal jobs, goldbricker VA jobs etc pay AT LEAST double most back breaking laborious private sector jobs PLUS have Cadillac plated dental/medical/pension benefits....govt jobs are sweet.

    Instead of taking them over most libertarian types whine about minorities taking their jobs......lemme tell you from experience....the private sector is very overrated.....its why for instance even STEM professors will tell you about the glories of the private sector but squirm if you talk about taking away their professorship sinecure that usually pays high 5 figures to low 6 figures.....

    The private sector may snap up the best & brightest here and there but the private sector is largely overrated.....and the pay not so impressive.....even for STEM jobs....

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @TTSSYF, @Ron Mexico, @bomag, @Alfa158, @SimplePseudonymicHandle, @Muggles, @mjm

    The private sector may snap up the best & brightest here and there but the private sector is largely overrated…..and the pay not so impressive…..even for STEM jobs….

    So which government entity have you worked for for 25 years?

    Yes, some govt. benefits are better than some private ones due to politics, government employee union workers and large voting blocs. The government is ultimately a parasite so they feed on everyone else as long and much as possible.

    Some essential govt. work is hard, dirty, dangerous, etc. and when not subject to privatization need to pay well. Of course you also get a “civil service” mentality where 20% of your coworkers do no actual work, etc.

  81. @Harry Baldwin
    Interesting article on the psychodrama of the woke workplace. Just as college is no longer a place you go to get an education, but a place you to get politically indoctrinated, many graduates now feel that the workplace is no longer a place you go to work, but a place you go to argue about politics.

    My one full-time job was at a NY ad agency, from which I was laid off 20 years ago. While I was there I recall NO arguments about politics between the employees. It wasn't even a corporate policy, it was just understood it was not appropriate at the workplace.

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/3/22418208/basecamp-all-hands-meeting-employee-resignations-buyouts-implosion

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Mark G.

    While I was there I recall NO arguments about politics between the employees. It wasn’t even a corporate policy, it was just understood it was not appropriate at the workplace.

    I work a civilian job in the military. We were recently sent to a class on the dangers of extremist white nationalists. Not extremist leftists like Antifa- no problem there! The class started off by saying we are supposed to defend the Constitution, a sentiment I agree with. Then near the end of the class we were told that if you join the military you lose your freedom of speech. If that meant not talking politics while on the job, that’s sensible but it was left ambiguous whether it applied even during non-work hours. Freedom of speech is in the Bill of Rights and that is part of the Constitution so no one who works for the military should be telling anyone else who works for the military they don’t have freedom of speech. The person who does that is himself not defending the Constitution.

  82. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Arclight
    @Steve Sailer

    I believe Salesforce has announced it will be allowing workers to remain remote but that they aren't going to pay SF wages if you don't actually live there, either.

    Worth noting that they a) built the largest skyscraper in its home city of SF just a couple of years ago and b) around the same time having become the largest tenant in the tallest building in Indianapolis, which is its 2nd largest office location. That's a lot of overhead cost they are stuck with.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Anonymous, @dfordoom

    Theyve become a roll up play. Overspent on that and 4 other bs software for sales acquisitions

    SELL

  83. @Anonymous
    @James B. Shearer

    Boomers already failed miserably at offshoring jobs to India. Remember when ol' Jack Welch was blathering on about all of the talent in India, just waiting to be unleashed?

    As it turns out, India is dysfunctional because, as a collective group, Indians are dishonest and dysfunctional. They require constant supervision. The Chinese are better. But the cultural gains are offset by Asian passiveness.

    If anything, remote work will probably help US workers, since remote work requires cultural cohesiveness and an assumption of honesty. Currently, the companies that have embraced remote work skew White. OTOH, companies that most highly rely on H1B labor will resist remote work the most. They know it will be a disaster with a diverse, international workforce.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @sayless

    Asian passiveness?

  84. @Anon
    You'd need to also find a replacement for Slack that is less of an internal version of Twitter.

    Ideally you'd ban mobile phones and make internet access limited to people with a business need, only when needed, but with remote work that's not going to work.

    Could you ban the use and possession of personal social media outside of work, legally? Say, for a 20 percent salary premium over market? Refundable, with attorney's fees, if it turns out you lied?

    Replies: @Polistra, @Pericles, @Barack Obama's secret Unz account, @Alexander Turok

    At will employment means they can fire you for any reason, but courts would refuse to enforce the refunding of wages.

  85. @Anon
    @JohnnyWalker123


    $150K/yr in San Jose is middle-class. In Tampa, it’s good money.
     
    That's not how it works. You get less money if you live in a place with lower cost of living. And your company needs to know your actual domicile (= your GPS coordinates at 2 a.m. 183 days of the year) or you and they get in trouble with the tax authorities, unemployment comp people, health insurance, etc.

    Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/21/zuckerberg-50percent-of-facebook-employees-could-be-working-remotely.html

    The company will begin allowing certain employees to work remotely full time, he said. Those employees will have to notify the company if they move to a different location by Jan. 1, 2021. As a result, those employees may have their compensations adjusted based on their new locations, Zuckerberg said.

    “We’ll adjust salary to your location at that point,” said Zuckerberg, citing that this is necessary for taxes and accounting. “There’ll be severe ramifications for people who are not honest about this.”
     
    In the end it's market pay against the competition, but remote work throws new variables into the mix, so it will be interesting how it works out.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Alden

    I wonder how they can find out where you’re online commuting from. How would they verify that?

    • Replies: @Anon
    @JohnnyWalker123


    I wonder how they can find out where you’re online commuting from. How would they verify that?
     
    They could ask you to pop into the office in the afternoon, or the next day. Do that three times and if you make an excuse three times they have you.

    They could look at your IP address*, but you could use a VPN located in their employer's city. Most commercial VPN nodes are known, so to make it really work they would need a private VPN in the city they are supposedly living in But for techie employees they could probably figure this out. It might be enough to rent a virtual server at an ISP that does both to-the-home and business servers. Otherwise you'd need a physical place to put your own server to server as the relay. This could be a business opportunity for someone at the company who stays: Rent servers with local connectivity.

    * I seem to remember that AOL and a few other companies don't identify the physical location of their IP addresses beyond "U.S.A." If there is a company like this that offers to-the-home connectivity both in your employer's city and in your remote location, that could be a solution.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    @JohnnyWalker123


    I wonder how they can find out where you’re online commuting from. How would they verify that?
     
    Your IP address would be a start. Ask Google where you've been.
  86. @TomSchmidt
    @Not Raul

    Yes, this is coming. No reason to pay first-world wages for virtual/remote work unless you're getting first world value. If you get that value in India, why not?

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

    If you get that value in India, why not?

    But you usually can’t.

    • Agree: Paleo Liberal
    • Replies: @SaneClownPosse
    @Alexander Turok

    The talent pool is a shallow kiddie pool.

    Back in 201x, Verizon Data Services India (Chennai) proudly announced successful completion of the first class through their 90 day software engineering training program.

    "90 day wonder" was USA WW2 slang for junior officers sent out to lead into combat.

    Some dot Indian coders didn't know their bytes from chars. Every time there was a change to an interface, they would figure how to do it wrongly. 1 != '1'

  87. Coinbase recently banned Nick Fuentes after his No-Fly List status became public. So fuck them.

    But abandoning offices in San Francisco in 2021 is not stupid. The city is a health hazard, the DA is a commie letting crazies go, rents are high, crime is skyrocketing, and the woke will attack you at every turn. It’s a demoralizing and scary place to live or work if you care anything about civilization.

    I predict this is step 1 of a two-step dance they will do. Step 2 will be saying, “Oh, it turns out we need offices after all, but whoops! The old place isn’t good enough/too expensive, and whoops, we already sold it/lost our lease. We’ll take this nice suburban real estate instead.”

    A complicated way to extricate yourself from a cesspool without ever calling it a cesspool or arousing the woke to suspect you don’t like woke-land.

    Remember in the 60s-80s when companies got suburban campuses to avoid city crime? GE put its headquarters in suburban Connecticut. Then when cities got livable GE moved to downtown Boston and got healthy tax breaks for it.

  88. @Jim Don Bob
    @ScarletNumber


    The feds figured this out years ago, where your salary of $X is augmented by a cost-of-living adjustment.
     
    That's true, but the average Fed in the DC area is a GS-13 which before a COLA is about $90k. That's not much in a high priced area but goes a long way in flyover country.

    WRT moving Feds out of Washington: One of DJT's minions tried to move about 500 jobs in, IIRC, some agriculture related agency to Kansas City and the employees went nuts. I don't know if it ever happened, but you'd have thought they were being sent to a Siberian gulag for all the yelling and screaming that went on.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Alden, @R.G. Camara, @Hhsiii

    some agriculture related agency to Kansas City and the employees went nuts

    Exactly. You would think the Department of Agriculture, of all things, should be located in the midwest. The Economic Research Service and the National Institute of Food and Agriculture branches are the ones making the move. I would be more aggressive and move the whole thing.

    While it isn’t a governmental agency per se, the NCAA has survived just fine, first in the Kansas suburbs of Kansas City and now in Indianapolis.

    • Agree: R.G. Camara
  89. @AndrewR
    @AnotherDad

    My brother works for the VA and his wife works for the Dept of the Interior. Both live 2,000 miles from DC and work at a federal building (or at home)

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Alden

    Well if there is a federal agency that can justify being outside of DC, it’s the Department of the Interior.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @ScarletNumber

    You're on a roll today, SN!

  90. @Known Fact
    @ScarletNumber

    Let's send state workers home too. Although it'll seem pretty weird going to someone's house to get your driver's license renewed

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    Although it’ll seem pretty weird going to someone’s house to get your driver’s license renewed

    Well in New Jersey it’s not like you have to physically go to Trenton to do this; there are MVC offices set up throughout the state. The problems with them are:

    • They are staffed by government employees, a problem which is self-evident

    • Because of COVID they are being even lazier than usual, using any excuse to reduce hours and not take walk-ins

    • Ironically, the offices are evenly distributed throughout the state without much regard for population distribution. Therefore, the lines and waits along the 95 corridor are unbearable. The last time I needed to go the line outside my local office was so bad that I drove 45 minutes to an office in a less-densely populated part of the state. They were so surprised when I walked in because they weren’t used to getting customers. I was in-and-out in about 15 minutes. Therefore my total time was 1:45. Out of curiosity, on my way home I drove past my local office and I recognized some of the same people still waiting in line…

  91. Altai says:

    I don’t know that having all meetings be in a format that is readily recordable by all participants is going to help quell wokeness as the situation with Pappa John’s founder and the company’s advertising company demonstrates. It even gives the potential for anonymity to the leaker and framer of the situation.

  92. @Anon
    @JohnnyWalker123


    $150K/yr in San Jose is middle-class. In Tampa, it’s good money.
     
    That's not how it works. You get less money if you live in a place with lower cost of living. And your company needs to know your actual domicile (= your GPS coordinates at 2 a.m. 183 days of the year) or you and they get in trouble with the tax authorities, unemployment comp people, health insurance, etc.

    Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/21/zuckerberg-50percent-of-facebook-employees-could-be-working-remotely.html

    The company will begin allowing certain employees to work remotely full time, he said. Those employees will have to notify the company if they move to a different location by Jan. 1, 2021. As a result, those employees may have their compensations adjusted based on their new locations, Zuckerberg said.

    “We’ll adjust salary to your location at that point,” said Zuckerberg, citing that this is necessary for taxes and accounting. “There’ll be severe ramifications for people who are not honest about this.”
     
    In the end it's market pay against the competition, but remote work throws new variables into the mix, so it will be interesting how it works out.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Alden

    The eeeevvvvviiiilllll capitalists have been talking about lowering salaries because of reduced commuting costs since last May.

  93. Alden says:
    @AndrewR
    @AnotherDad

    My brother works for the VA and his wife works for the Dept of the Interior. Both live 2,000 miles from DC and work at a federal building (or at home)

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Alden

    Now I definitely absolutely know you are black. I was pretty sure when you defended a black man, Philip Adams who slaughtered 6 Whites. By claiming the racist hate mass murder was
    “ a very complicated incident.” But if your brother works for the VA, it’s 100 percent certain you’re black. You’re black.

    • Thanks: Rosie
  94. Alden says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    @ScarletNumber


    The feds figured this out years ago, where your salary of $X is augmented by a cost-of-living adjustment.
     
    That's true, but the average Fed in the DC area is a GS-13 which before a COLA is about $90k. That's not much in a high priced area but goes a long way in flyover country.

    WRT moving Feds out of Washington: One of DJT's minions tried to move about 500 jobs in, IIRC, some agriculture related agency to Kansas City and the employees went nuts. I don't know if it ever happened, but you'd have thought they were being sent to a Siberian gulag for all the yelling and screaming that went on.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Alden, @R.G. Camara, @Hhsiii

    That’s because most federal employees are black Hispanic Chinese and or some variety of gay. The black ones especially don’t want to leave their beloved District of Chocolate and S. E. Maryland. Those big fed buildings are like Lagos at 5PM, no other race but blacks rushing out.

  95. @Jim Don Bob
    @ScarletNumber


    The feds figured this out years ago, where your salary of $X is augmented by a cost-of-living adjustment.
     
    That's true, but the average Fed in the DC area is a GS-13 which before a COLA is about $90k. That's not much in a high priced area but goes a long way in flyover country.

    WRT moving Feds out of Washington: One of DJT's minions tried to move about 500 jobs in, IIRC, some agriculture related agency to Kansas City and the employees went nuts. I don't know if it ever happened, but you'd have thought they were being sent to a Siberian gulag for all the yelling and screaming that went on.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Alden, @R.G. Camara, @Hhsiii

    Many of the good government types of the non-Deep State variety have posited that instead of cutting government jobs or cutting the budgets, the feds could move various federal agencies’ headquarters so that they are spread about the country, especially in various depressed/smaller cities. E.g. Buffalo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Madison, St. Louis, Kansas City, Boise, Cheyanne, Santa Fe, Albuquerque, Tucson, Amarillo, San Antonio, etc.

    The head guys could fly into Washington whenever they had congressional hearings, but no one else would have to live in D.C.

    Even though this would help those cities gain employment and infrastructure jobs, and “spread the government wealth” and make red-state folks less hostile to government spending, and decrease costs (employees and infrastructure would cost less to maintain in Buffalo or Cleveland than in D.C.), the Deep State folks in D.C. hate the idea and fight hard against it.

  96. @Anonymous
    @James B. Shearer

    Boomers already failed miserably at offshoring jobs to India. Remember when ol' Jack Welch was blathering on about all of the talent in India, just waiting to be unleashed?

    As it turns out, India is dysfunctional because, as a collective group, Indians are dishonest and dysfunctional. They require constant supervision. The Chinese are better. But the cultural gains are offset by Asian passiveness.

    If anything, remote work will probably help US workers, since remote work requires cultural cohesiveness and an assumption of honesty. Currently, the companies that have embraced remote work skew White. OTOH, companies that most highly rely on H1B labor will resist remote work the most. They know it will be a disaster with a diverse, international workforce.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @sayless

    /Boomers already failed miserably at offshoring jobs to India/

    Well dammit, Number Three-Thirty-One, I did my best. Why don’t you try? Shkreli might be able to use an aide-de-camp. Reach out.

  97. @ScarletNumber
    @AndrewR

    Well if there is a federal agency that can justify being outside of DC, it's the Department of the Interior.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    You’re on a roll today, SN!

    • Thanks: ScarletNumber
  98. @Steve Sailer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA or wherever and you'll have to spend a lot of time on an airplane coming to the see them so they don't forget you.

    Coinbase's announcement goes to lengths, to assure job applicants that the Bay Area won't be the de facto headquarters, so they are sensitive to this concern.

    But, yeah, you can have a nice life if you can figure out how to pay for a nice house 20 miles north of DFW while getting paid like you work in SF. Of course, Coinbase's beancounters are probably working on ways to not let you do that as we speak.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Neoconned, @JimDandy, @ScarletNumber, @donut, @gent, @Ed, @Arclight, @Barnard, @James worthy, @Reg Cæsar

    My concern would be that the big bosses will still live in Atherton, CA…

    If they’re anything at all like William Atherton in Ghostbusters, they can stay there!

  99. Sunday is Mothers Day and today Friday, which means…

    SSA: Top 10 Baby Names of 2020

    In 2020, Steven finishes #224, Stephen #324, and Steve #995.

    For 1958, when our Steve was born, the rankings were 10, 26, and 44.

    We are undergoing the slow Destephanization of America.

  100. ‘Should we do this with federal employees?’

    Can we make them ‘work’ somewhere else entirely?

    Like, say, the crater of Mauna Loa?

    It’s pretty roomy. Nobody else actually in it. Hawaii!

  101. @Anon
    Is there some way to make a particular company more attractive to people who are married with families, without falling into trouble under antidiscrimination law?

    It might be worth it for atheist founders to fake becoming religious and go full-Hobby Lobby. It wouldn't matter if everyone suspected it was fake; it might be even better that way.

    Benefits like these could be offered:

    -- Flexible-schedule, part-time or remote jobs for spouses of full-time employees.

    -- Company-sponsored private primary and secondary school facility or group home-schooling in a company facility, complete with no gender lessons in primary school and a gender realism curriculum in middle school teaching that there are two sexes and trans is a mental condition. Also, full math curriculum through integral calculus where the word problems only use Nordic given names. And a slightly obnoxious amount of Christian bible and religion education.

    -- Discount gun and ammo purchases through the company with free range instruction where the race of the targets matches the actual ratios from government crime statistics.

    -- Over-the-top obstetrics coverage.

    -- Company dances for singles, including Sadie Hawkins dances or spinsters' balls; dance styles to include country western line dancing and the hokie-pokie.

    -- Company cafeteria has taco days where miniature sombreros are included.

    On the other hand, no sex change surgery coverage or gender dysphoria hormones.

    Possible company rules:

    -- Company uniforms, with mandatory skirts for women.

    -- Grooming code, iterated to be maximally obnoxious to progressives, but for instance a "hair diameter" limit to prevent out-of-control black naturals, with the expectation of a lawsuit, which will be appealed up to the Supreme Court to generate as much publicity as possible.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    You really have this all planned out. Too bad it’s fantasy.

  102. @Neoconned
    @Not Raul

    I was wondering the same thing.

    A former church friend who's probably 60ish now told me a story once about how he worked for a computer firm in Denver in the 90s & early 2000s....1 time he came in and saw his coworkers training their Hindu replacements.....who would be flown back to India.....

    He cashed out & invested in a restaurant and rental properties.....

    Replies: @Not Raul, @bomag

    I knew a guy who had a similar story.

    I believe that he had worked for Amdocs.

  103. @JohnnyWalker123
    Check this out.

    https://twitter.com/whyvert/status/1390508527035183111

    Very interesting!

    Replies: @anon, @Spect3r, @res

    Don’t tell the CivNats.

    Also don’t tell them about this.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

  104. @The Alarmist
    Steve, Coinbase did a ‘woke’ purge last year to dress itself up for its IPO. But to your point, once you realise you don’t need the problem children, you don’t need to be where the problem children are clustered; but you still find plenty of problem children even in flyover country, so you have to make sure you define the corporate culture and mission appropriately:


    Coinbase is a mission focused company

    Everyone is asking the question about how companies should engage in broader societal issues during these difficult times, while keeping their teams united and focused on the mission. Coinbase has had its own challenges here, including employee walkouts. I decided to share publicly how I’m addressing this in case it helps others navigate a path through these challenging times.

    In short, I want Coinbase to be laser focused on achieving its mission, because I believe that this is the way that we can have the biggest impact on the world. We will do this by playing as a championship team, focus on building, and being transparent about what our mission is and isn’t.

    ... [skipping to the bottom line]

    We won’t:

    * Debate causes or political candidates internally that are unrelated to work
    * Expect the company to represent our personal beliefs externally
    * Assume negative intent, or not have each others back
    * Take on activism outside of our core mission at work

    ...

    I recognize that our approach is not for everyone, and may be controversial. I know that many people may not agree, and some employees may resign. I also know that some of what I’ve written above will be misinterpreted, whether accidentally or on purpose. But I believe it’s the right approach for Coinbase that will set us up for success long term, and I would rather be honest and transparent about that than equivocate and work in a company that is not aligned.

     

    source: https://blog.coinbase.com/coinbase-is-a-mission-focused-company-af882df8804

    They then proceded buying out a number of the problem children.

    Replies: @anon

    They then proceded buying out a number of the problem children.

    One third (1/3) of the workforce, in fact. Probably the least productive and most contentious 1/3.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @anon

    If the Pareto Rule holds, circa 80% of a company’s problems come from 20% of its employees.

  105. Anon[265] • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    @Anon

    I wonder how they can find out where you're online commuting from. How would they verify that?

    Replies: @Anon, @Jim Don Bob

    I wonder how they can find out where you’re online commuting from. How would they verify that?

    They could ask you to pop into the office in the afternoon, or the next day. Do that three times and if you make an excuse three times they have you.

    They could look at your IP address*, but you could use a VPN located in their employer’s city. Most commercial VPN nodes are known, so to make it really work they would need a private VPN in the city they are supposedly living in But for techie employees they could probably figure this out. It might be enough to rent a virtual server at an ISP that does both to-the-home and business servers. Otherwise you’d need a physical place to put your own server to server as the relay. This could be a business opportunity for someone at the company who stays: Rent servers with local connectivity.

    * I seem to remember that AOL and a few other companies don’t identify the physical location of their IP addresses beyond “U.S.A.” If there is a company like this that offers to-the-home connectivity both in your employer’s city and in your remote location, that could be a solution.

    • Thanks: JohnnyWalker123
  106. @Thoughts
    I was thinking this the other day...if you can't see your company, you can't see whether you are in the majority or minority

    Replies: @SaneClownPosse

    Would remote working make “it’s not who you know, it’s who you blow” less of an issue or more of an issue?

    Since no one (unless someone forgets they’re on a zoom call) would see any physical commingling between the parties.

    Like a closed office door opens and someone hurrys out.

  107. @Alexander Turok
    @TomSchmidt


    If you get that value in India, why not?
     
    But you usually can't.

    Replies: @SaneClownPosse

    The talent pool is a shallow kiddie pool.

    Back in 201x, Verizon Data Services India (Chennai) proudly announced successful completion of the first class through their 90 day software engineering training program.

    “90 day wonder” was USA WW2 slang for junior officers sent out to lead into combat.

    Some dot Indian coders didn’t know their bytes from chars. Every time there was a change to an interface, they would figure how to do it wrongly. 1 != ‘1’

  108. @Neoconned
    @Not Raul

    I was wondering the same thing.

    A former church friend who's probably 60ish now told me a story once about how he worked for a computer firm in Denver in the 90s & early 2000s....1 time he came in and saw his coworkers training their Hindu replacements.....who would be flown back to India.....

    He cashed out & invested in a restaurant and rental properties.....

    Replies: @Not Raul, @bomag

    1 time he came in and saw his coworkers training their Hindu replacements…

    Where’s the worker revolt when you need one?

    Looks like Marx underestimated a couple things, including Capital’s ability to buy people off; the effectiveness of the police state; general passivity.

  109. @JohnnyWalker123
    Check this out.

    https://twitter.com/whyvert/status/1390508527035183111

    Very interesting!

    Replies: @anon, @Spect3r, @res

    What are thous non red non blue areas?
    No data or?

  110. Anon[378] • Disclaimer says:

    I recently finished fixing up some rentals in a small coastal town in SC. Most of the applicants were people fleeing blue states because they can now work remotely. Half of the units were rented sight unseen. I wanted to tell the people to leave their voting habits in whatever Democratic dystopia they were escaping, but decided against it just in case things ever went to litigation. I was slightly relieved when I went to do a repair and one of the tenants was watching Tucker.

    I had one black applicant. She was in the process of “mending her credit” and apparently thought I might want to join her on her journey of financial rehabilitation. I declined.

  111. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Anon

    I wonder how they can find out where you're online commuting from. How would they verify that?

    Replies: @Anon, @Jim Don Bob

    I wonder how they can find out where you’re online commuting from. How would they verify that?

    Your IP address would be a start. Ask Google where you’ve been.

  112. @John Mansfield
    This "we don't have a home office" plan sounds like a dodge for keeping away from search warrants and court subpoenas. So, a practical preparation for an envisioned future.

    Replies: @additionalMike

    Certainly a sweet plan when it comes to traditional searches, Mr. Mansfield. But the “documents,” so to speak, will be shared electronically among those personnel who must have access to them. The more widely the files are dispersed, the more vulnerable they will be to search.
    Of course, if the target has Hillary or Hunter-level political mojo, it won’t matter what is found. Electronic files are easy to pretend out of existence.

  113. @Achmed E. Newman
    @ScarletNumber


    At the very least, there is no need for all federal agencies ...
     
    I like the way you're going with this, Mr. Number.

    ...they barely work when they are at work.
     
    The more barely they work, the better off Americans are as a whole, at least White Americans.

    #OutsourceFederalGovernment

    Replies: @Adam Smith

    #AbolishFederalGovernment

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  114. @anon
    @The Alarmist

    They then proceded buying out a number of the problem children.

    One third (1/3) of the workforce, in fact. Probably the least productive and most contentious 1/3.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    If the Pareto Rule holds, circa 80% of a company’s problems come from 20% of its employees.

  115. @Muggles
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Re: home town wages vs. cost-of-living arbitrage idea.

    Yes many are now doing that if they can.

    Several flies in this ointment however.

    First, very few large firms are totally eliminating offices. Almost zero. And unless they do that you the employee are still normally required to show up at the office once a week or whatever the schedule says. In person meetings are much more productive for some things.

    Second, companies with remote workers aren't dumb. Some are now setting wages to the local area where remote workers are now living. That is if you live in a low cost area your pay will be adjusted down (or offered less, if new) than those who remain in expensive large urban centers. Only very high demand workers, like my IT bro-in-law, can still get the same pay for living on a mountaintop, practically. Even he has to fly out for clients, etc.

    For many types of jobs customer face time and boss face time is important.

    Still for some kinds of businesses decentralization of employment is an ongoing trend driven by both employers who save on office rent and employees who may enjoy better environments and lower costs of living.

    Uncle Joe & Co. will, if in power long enough, want to "normalize" employee racial and "equity" numbers by demanding quotas for geographically bunched (mainly) POC to be hired to "balance out" smarter Galt's Gulch whites who prefer Smallville to Little Kolkutta or Floydville in large urban areas. No hiding out from Big Sister's dictats! .

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

    The credentialed babysitters unions are going to insist, during their next contract negotiation, that members be allowed to “teach” from home.

    Naturally, their shares of government spending will go up.

    Taxpayers are a bunch of suckers.

  116. @Jim Don Bob
    @ScarletNumber


    The feds figured this out years ago, where your salary of $X is augmented by a cost-of-living adjustment.
     
    That's true, but the average Fed in the DC area is a GS-13 which before a COLA is about $90k. That's not much in a high priced area but goes a long way in flyover country.

    WRT moving Feds out of Washington: One of DJT's minions tried to move about 500 jobs in, IIRC, some agriculture related agency to Kansas City and the employees went nuts. I don't know if it ever happened, but you'd have thought they were being sent to a Siberian gulag for all the yelling and screaming that went on.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Alden, @R.G. Camara, @Hhsiii

    The money would go a lot further, but sometimes people just don’t want to move. It’s a hassle.

  117. @Neoconned
    A lot of the libertarian types are dumb like this....white supremacist types too....think how much more these jobs pay than over hyped private sector nonsense....

    Ronald Reagan has a quote attributed to him: "the best minds aren't in govt....if they were business would steal them away...."

    Maybe in a few scenarios....from what I've seen though in large parts of the country its far far more about "who you know" than "what you know".....good old boy networks & that crap. I've been passed over for other stupid reasons....like the boss wanting youngish semi attractive to hot 18 to 35 yr old females as his asst. managers to help satiate his mid life insecurities thinking he's creating his version of Charlie's Angels....

    If white Americans were smart they'd take over the civil service as make work jobs for their friends & family.

    Trust me, govt jobs like postal jobs, goldbricker VA jobs etc pay AT LEAST double most back breaking laborious private sector jobs PLUS have Cadillac plated dental/medical/pension benefits....govt jobs are sweet.

    Instead of taking them over most libertarian types whine about minorities taking their jobs......lemme tell you from experience....the private sector is very overrated.....its why for instance even STEM professors will tell you about the glories of the private sector but squirm if you talk about taking away their professorship sinecure that usually pays high 5 figures to low 6 figures.....

    The private sector may snap up the best & brightest here and there but the private sector is largely overrated.....and the pay not so impressive.....even for STEM jobs....

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @TTSSYF, @Ron Mexico, @bomag, @Alfa158, @SimplePseudonymicHandle, @Muggles, @mjm

    Government work is not more lucrative for STEM. The salary is lower and the benefits are worse. You CAN be less competent and keep your government job however. So maybe I should say if you are competent and in STEM government service jobs are worse.

  118. @Arclight
    @Steve Sailer

    I believe Salesforce has announced it will be allowing workers to remain remote but that they aren't going to pay SF wages if you don't actually live there, either.

    Worth noting that they a) built the largest skyscraper in its home city of SF just a couple of years ago and b) around the same time having become the largest tenant in the tallest building in Indianapolis, which is its 2nd largest office location. That's a lot of overhead cost they are stuck with.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Anonymous, @dfordoom

    I believe Salesforce has announced it will be allowing workers to remain remote but that they aren’t going to pay SF wages if you don’t actually live there, either.

    Remote workers will become a new underclass. A kind of lumpenproletariat. Badly paid with no benefits and even less security than they have now.

    But hey, profits will go up.

  119. res says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Check this out.

    https://twitter.com/whyvert/status/1390508527035183111

    Very interesting!

    Replies: @anon, @Spect3r, @res

    Direct link to the paper.
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0245692

    Caption for the figure.

    Fig 1. World map of time preferences.
    Countries with preferences for more immediate rewards are colored in red, countries that emphasize future rewards more are marked in blue, gray colors indicate missing data

    Data is available in an Excel spreadsheet and a Word table.

    • Thanks: JohnnyWalker123

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