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Pope vs. Trump: Globalism V. Nationalism, Round MLVII
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Philip II, Spanish Armada, Elizabeth I

Following in an ancient tradition that includes Pope Sixtus V, backer of the Spanish Armada of 1588, the Pope has picked a fight with a nationalist leader of the Anglosphere over borders and national autonomy. From the New York Times:

Pope Francis Suggests Donald Trump Is ‘Not Christian’
By JIM YARDLEY FEB. 18, 2016

ABOARD THE PAPAL AIRLINER — Inserting himself into the Republican presidential race, Pope Francis on Wednesday suggested that Donald J. Trump “is not Christian” because of the harshness of his campaign promises to deport more immigrants and force Mexico to pay for a wall along the border.

“A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian,” Francis said when a reporter asked him about Mr. Trump on the papal airliner as he returned to Rome after his six-day visit to Mexico.

Previous Anglosphere nationalists declared to be not a Christian by popes include Henry VIII and Elizabeth I.

 
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  1. This is a weak post because Trump isn’t a Christian. And his declarations of Christian faith make him look dishonest and lacking in integrity. It’s a bad strategy for him to make such a big deal of being pious.

    • Replies: @rod1963
    @Anonymous

    So you know the exact nature of Trump's faith by what means?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @epebble

    , @Perplexed
    @Anonymous

    Trump is Christian enough to defend the right to conscience of all American Christians. Americans won't let the Pope push them around. Butt out, Mr. Pope. (Hey, since you're in Mexico, you could talk about Mexico's stringent immigration laws.)

    , @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    This is a weak post because Trump isn’t a Christian.


    He may not be observant or "a good christian" but that does not make him ex communicado.

    Throughout history there have been millions of Christian guys like Trump.

    PS This pope is the person whose Christianity is in question.

    This pope does not believe in "leave unto Caesar"...

    This pope doesn't believe in "store up your treasures in heaven"....

    This pope doesn't believe in "judge not so that ye be not judged"...

    Etc

    , @dr kill
    @Anonymous

    His fam was in church with mine Christmas Eve, and I have the photos to prove it. If that doesn't make him Christian, I don't know what will. It might be that whole CoE thing with the Holy Mackerel Snapper in Chief.

  2. Disband the Swiss Guard! Vatican City should be an open city … a sanctuary city!

    • Replies: @dearieme
    @Dirk Dagger

    Quite right. Tear down those Vatican walls.

  3. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Funny how NYT loves Christianity only when it is anti-white.

    Btw, the natives of the Americas were not Christians. In becoming Christian, weren’t they conquered and enslaved by another people?

    This Pope is Latin American. So, what was the history of Christianity in the New World?

    A forced bridge that led to the demise of the natives.

    That’s what happens when you don’t have effective walls.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @Anon

    Like "The Mission." All those dead Amerindians, Hopi, Navajo, etc.

    , @RaceRealist88
    @Anon

    The Pope is Italian. Just because his family emigrated to Argentina doesnt change his ethnicity/race.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    , @SFG
    @Anon

    Actually, a lot more natives survived down there than up here.

  4. Trump has been re-tweeting pictures of the giant wall that surrounds Vatican City. Sure, there’s an opening in it, but that happens to be exactly what Trump has been saying he wants: “a beautiful wall with a big door”.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @kihowi

    At this rate, Trump is going to reactivate the American Party by springtime:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

    Maybe Daniel Day Lewis can appear on stage at Trump rallies in his Bill the Butcher costume?

    , @Lagertha
    @kihowi

    Was it AD 859 when the wall went up against the Muslim pirates?

    , @tbraton
    @kihowi

    Hey, the Vatican is an independent state. That wall serves as protection from the Italians. We know how vicious they can be. All you have to do is read Gibbon to get some idea of what atrocities they are capable of. Besides, there is a lot of valuable art located there. If you had such a valuable art collection, you would certainly build a wall to protect that art.

  5. No. Henry and Elizabeth were declared to be, in the case of the first, a bad Catholic; in the case of the second, not one at all.
    Francis is a semi-senile blunderer. Fresh from having been scalped by the wily Russians, he has just assured an extra two or three hundred thousand votes for Trump over the next few months.
    I therefore hope that his increasingly desperate minders don’t succeed in shutting him up for quite some time yet.

  6. I was in Rome this last December. Noticed lots of walls and guards around the Vatican city. Also noticed what a great mosque Saint Peter’s cathedral will make.

    • Replies: @snorlax
    @Whoiwasthelasttime


    Also noticed what a great mosque Saint Peter’s cathedral will make.
     
    I'd say the odds are presently about 50-50 I'll see that in my lifetime.
  7. Has the Pope ever questioned the Christianity of those who support homosexuals or partial birth abortion?

    People who have a sincere faith in God can be among the most immune to PC culture (see Mormons, Islamists, the Amish). This Pope’s real God is the liberal media.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @Hepp

    Honest to God, when I first heard about the ' The Wall Wars,' all I could think about was Father Guido Sarducci...thought this whole issue today, was a joke - a ha hah! sort of Onion piece in February of, " let's shake things up," because we need to shake things up - too many GOP candidates hanging on with the tips of their fingers.

    Weirdly, the Pope and Donald have some similarities: they both feel very confident to just say stuff because they are celebrities; and their messages are "a calling" for many people. Pope is way weird and crude this time, because, let's not kid ourselves, Protestants really stopped listening to Catholics soooo long ago, and some Catholics are also dumbfounded as to why this Pope felt he needs to emote about Donald.

    Am I the only one who is sooooo tired of this Pope? He and his 39 foot high wall @ the Vatican just need to butt-out of our presidential race. I do love his stance on the well being of animals and children....but he should really just shut up about American politics. Am I alone in this?

    Replies: @fnn

  8. “Is the pope Catholic?” was once a rhetorical question. It’s now a legitimate one.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Harry Baldwin

    Agree.

    , @Joseph A.
    @Harry Baldwin

    H.B.: “'Is the pope Catholic?' was once a rhetorical question. It’s now a legitimate one."

    This was exactly what I thought when I heard about the fuss.

  9. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The week in daily briefings to Trump:

    Monday: Your poll numbers are high but the bad news is all members of the U.S. Congress from South Carolina have come out against you.

    Tuesday: Your poll numbers are high but the bad news is the President of United States has come out against you.

    Wednesday: Your poll numbers are high but the bad news is the Governor of South Carolina has come out against you.

    Thursday: Your poll numbers are high but the bad news is the Pope has come out against you.

    Trump: Have we picked up any newspaper endorsements?

    Campaign manager: No, they have not only come out against you but they have all compared you to either P.T. Barnum or Hitler.

    Trump: Whatever. We’re going to win. We’re going to win so much you’ll get sick of it.

    • Agree: BB753, Vendetta
    • Replies: @gda
    @Anonymous

    Spit my drink up on that one. Great stuff.

  10. Funny how when there’s an actual example of a case where a wall of separation between church and state is appropriate, the left sides with the theocrats.

    Jefferson didn’t want American politicians appointing bishops, so that means that the East Muncie school board can’t send out Christmas cards to teachers without also slaughtering a goat for Eid. Or something.

    But when it comes to foreign religious leaders telling us which laws we should enact, that’s perfectly OK.

    • Replies: @Andrew
    @Sparkling Wiggle

    Sparkling Wiggle:

    "Funny how when there’s an actual example of a case where a wall of separation between church and state is appropriate, the left sides with the theocrats."

    That is because by the time the "Wall of Separation" was formulated by Jefferson, the Congregationalists/Unitarians/Deists/Baptists of Yankeedom and their clingers-on in other colonies had already succeeded in making their personal moralistic therapeutic deist progressivism the established state religion.

    Once you are the established religion, a "Wall of Separation" is needed to prevent anyone else from dethroning your ascendancy via their own beliefs.

    So no hypocrisy, just power politics.

    Replies: @boogerbently, @ben tillman

  11. @Dirk Dagger
    Disband the Swiss Guard! Vatican City should be an open city … a sanctuary city!

    Replies: @dearieme

    Quite right. Tear down those Vatican walls.

  12. Oh thank god. For a month or so, here, it was looking like Camp of Saints might be wrong. Back on track!

  13. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City says
    “The Vatican, officially the Vatican City State (Latin: Status Civitatis Vaticanae), is a walled enclave and sovereign state.” As a sovereign state, they must have a program of visas for guest workers and immigrants. Where on this country’s website are its visa categories listed? Is its head of state entitled to vote in any foreign country, such as Argentina?

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    I was there recently and as far as I could see, there are no hotels, apartments or houses of any kind anywhere in the areas accessible to the public. I guess what housing there is (behind walls and gates manned by the Swiss Guards) is technically all "employee housing".

    Cool place nonetheless.

  14. This current pope has really strengthened my interest in Eastern Orthodoxy.

    • Replies: @antipater_1
    @Cagey Beast

    Cagey Beast - there is no need for Eastern Orthodoxy. There are only 3 books in the Bible that matter. Matthew, Mark and Luke. Study them, learn them, practice them. Be like Jesus - the Christ! Everything else in the New Testament is just "Paulism" and is fit only for the bovine masses.
    Christianity is not for the masses. It is for a Vanguard Elite. That is the entire point of Protestantism. Every man must do his own thinking. Every man must find his own way to God.

    Replies: @ConcernedAmerican, @BB753

    , @iSteveFan
    @Cagey Beast

    Here is a rather long interview on Youtube of an American protestant who converted and became an Orthodox Priest. He now runs an Orthodox Church in southern Oregon.

    , @gruff
    @Cagey Beast

    The Eastern mystical tradition is still very vital. "The Mountain of Silence" by Markides is a good place to start.

    , @Diversity Heretic
    @Cagey Beast

    There are a few heretical or schismatic Catholics, who follow Bishop Lefebvre and reject Vatican II. I went to a couple of services when I lived in France. Mainstream Protestanism is hopelessly cultural Marxist, as is Roman Catholicism under the present Pope. Evangelicals are shallow intellectually and I could see them eventually turning to an Islam that made a little more room for Jesus and a little less for Mohammad (don't ask me why, it's just an instinct of mine). Eastern Orthodoxy may be the white persons' Christianity of the future, if there is to be one.

    The only other hope would be for explicit schism within the Catholic Church: the eastern European bishops declaring the Papacy vacant due to heresy and electing an anti-Pope. Don't see that happening, however.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    , @Percy Gryce
    @Cagey Beast

    God bless Pope Francis--he's curing us Catholics of any latent papolatry.

    If you want the Eastern Christian mystical experience, it's available in the Catholic Church--among the Melkites and Ukrainians and other Greek-rite Catholics.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    , @SFG
    @Cagey Beast

    It's the go-to denomination for conservative Catholics disgusted with one aspect or another--Rod Dreher went Orthodox after the child abuse scandal, if I remember right.

    You can see why--it's got just as much age and tradition, being the other half of the Great Schism.

  15. Pope Eloi I, useful Communist Liberation Theology idiot tool of NAFTA-GATT-TPP-Wall-Street-Fed-EU Globalists. Same way in which today’s Left-lib-proglodytes are useful idiot tools of the Globalists.

    This Holy Father in-Lawlessness needs to ask himself why all of the “bridges” he admonishes us – only us in the West – to build are all for One-Way traffic(kers).

  16. @kihowi
    Trump has been re-tweeting pictures of the giant wall that surrounds Vatican City. Sure, there's an opening in it, but that happens to be exactly what Trump has been saying he wants: "a beautiful wall with a big door".

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Lagertha, @tbraton

    At this rate, Trump is going to reactivate the American Party by springtime:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

    Maybe Daniel Day Lewis can appear on stage at Trump rallies in his Bill the Butcher costume?

  17. I notice that Francis is the first pope not to be older than all of the Rolling Stones. He’s eight weeks younger than Bill Wyman.

  18. @Sparkling Wiggle
    Funny how when there's an actual example of a case where a wall of separation between church and state is appropriate, the left sides with the theocrats.

    Jefferson didn't want American politicians appointing bishops, so that means that the East Muncie school board can't send out Christmas cards to teachers without also slaughtering a goat for Eid. Or something.

    But when it comes to foreign religious leaders telling us which laws we should enact, that's perfectly OK.

    Replies: @Andrew

    Sparkling Wiggle:

    “Funny how when there’s an actual example of a case where a wall of separation between church and state is appropriate, the left sides with the theocrats.”

    That is because by the time the “Wall of Separation” was formulated by Jefferson, the Congregationalists/Unitarians/Deists/Baptists of Yankeedom and their clingers-on in other colonies had already succeeded in making their personal moralistic therapeutic deist progressivism the established state religion.

    Once you are the established religion, a “Wall of Separation” is needed to prevent anyone else from dethroning your ascendancy via their own beliefs.

    So no hypocrisy, just power politics.

    • Replies: @boogerbently
    @Andrew

    Except that the alleged "wall" only works one way.

    , @ben tillman
    @Andrew


    That is because by the time the “Wall of Separation” was formulated by Jefferson, the Congregationalists/Unitarians/Deists/Baptists of Yankeedom and their clingers-on in other colonies had already succeeded in making their personal moralistic therapeutic deist progressivism....
     
    That's a silly canard.
  19. @Anonymous
    This is a weak post because Trump isn't a Christian. And his declarations of Christian faith make him look dishonest and lacking in integrity. It's a bad strategy for him to make such a big deal of being pious.

    Replies: @rod1963, @Perplexed, @Anonymous, @dr kill

    So you know the exact nature of Trump’s faith by what means?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @rod1963

    We make inferences all the time in these comments about the rhetoric spewed by politicians and cultural controllers. It looks stupid especially here among a hyper critical analytical crowd to take Trump at his word when he has in his long publicly recorded life not shown concern for religion. Otherwise you might be too dim witted to make a contribution in these comments.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @rod1963

    , @epebble
    @rod1963

    I have no god in this fight; but I think Trump seems to be in violation of 7th, 8th and 10th Commandments, if it matters. And by his own admission, he hasn't sought forgiveness.

    A fair reading of http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/trump-has-never-sought-forgiveness/ would indicate he is not a Christian as normally understood.

    Replies: @rod1963

  20. This is possibly the most ringing endorsement anyone could make for Donald Trump. No one, of any country, appreciates foreign leaders telling their leaders what to do, or who they should elect.

    Of course, the Pope is primarily concerned because a wall (and looming repatriation) will slow down the Mexico->Vatican gravy train of funds, and the supply of new Catholics the White->Mexican wealth transfer policy of the US enables.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Anonym

    Is white a nationality or is Mexican a color?

    Replies: @Anonym

  21. Pope Dope, coming out of far left-field, strikes again for those other communists of whom he is one. Once you know from whence he comes – i.e., Argentina and liberation theology – he is predictable. He’s dangerous in a small way but, in this case, he’s helping The Donald immeasurably.

    Run the table Mr. President to be.

    • Replies: @MG
    @Jim Sweeney

    See if you can get hold of Michael Savage's epic opening riff today. He called the Pope a "Marxist" and a "phony" and that was just a warming up act.

  22. I’m shocked that the leader of the Catholic Church would advocate for more immigration into the US of devout, uneducated Catholics who have children at a significantly higher rate than the natives. Shocked.

  23. @Jim Sweeney
    Pope Dope, coming out of far left-field, strikes again for those other communists of whom he is one. Once you know from whence he comes - i.e., Argentina and liberation theology - he is predictable. He's dangerous in a small way but, in this case, he's helping The Donald immeasurably.

    Run the table Mr. President to be.

    Replies: @MG

    See if you can get hold of Michael Savage’s epic opening riff today. He called the Pope a “Marxist” and a “phony” and that was just a warming up act.

  24. I thought Trump’s press release response was really good, very diplomatic. Bill Donohue at the Catholic League, who usually gets spun around badly reacting to things and attempting to embrace the grievance culture, which Catholics as the awesome foundation of “Europe” (The Making of Europe, Christopher Dawson) should nit participate in at all; its beneath … Well Bill did have a decent point that this was a tempest in a teapot… Worth googling and reading in full…
    Trump’s measured response was telling too -he didn’t go all crazy/ranty. He’s tapping the FDR coalition as another commenter noted, and part of that is ethnic Catholics, or their kids and grandkids… Meh, I ain’t worried, I like Trump and Francis

  25. It almost seems that the gods themselves are working for Trump. When he mentioned deporting illegals, we soon had the multiply-deported illegal Mexican shoot the American girl in San Francisco. When he mentioned “temporarily” stopping Muslim immigration, we then had San Bernadino.

    Now the Pope, a foreign head of state, is interfering in an American election and questioning Trump’s Christianity shortly before Trump faces the judgement of the Bible-toting, God-fearing, not-very-Catholic Republican voters of South Carolina.

    Thank you, Jesus!

    • Agree: MG
    • Replies: @boogerbently
    @Eustace Tilley (not)

    Who does the pope think he is, anyway, God, or something ?

    , @Hibernian
    @Eustace Tilley (not)

    I think there are more Catholics in SC than there used to be. It's not Mississippi. Jim Geragty of NRO's Dad, an NYC CPA, is there, presiding over a local Republican club. My uncle is just over the border in NC, around Asheville NC and Greenville/Spartanburg SC. Transplants tend to be near the beach at one end of the state or the mountains at the other end.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

  26. • Replies: @Winthorp
    @Anon

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/12162814/Sweden-turns-to-Caribbean-cruise-ship-to-house-refugees.html

    "Act of Love" Boat?

  27. This is good. Now we just need the Queen of England to denounce Trump and he’ll be a shoo-in.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Anonymous

    Yeah, where are all those world leaders when you need them? We could do with an anti-Trump rant from the Dalai Lama too.

    , @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    This is good. Now we just need the Queen of England to denounce Trump and he’ll be a shoo-in.
     
    Well, we got a rant from Justin "The Boy Wonder" Trudeau, a poor-man's Queen of England.
  28. @Cagey Beast
    This current pope has really strengthened my interest in Eastern Orthodoxy.

    Replies: @antipater_1, @iSteveFan, @gruff, @Diversity Heretic, @Percy Gryce, @SFG

    Cagey Beast – there is no need for Eastern Orthodoxy. There are only 3 books in the Bible that matter. Matthew, Mark and Luke. Study them, learn them, practice them. Be like Jesus – the Christ! Everything else in the New Testament is just “Paulism” and is fit only for the bovine masses.
    Christianity is not for the masses. It is for a Vanguard Elite. That is the entire point of Protestantism. Every man must do his own thinking. Every man must find his own way to God.

    • Replies: @ConcernedAmerican
    @antipater_1


    There are only 3 books in the Bible that matter. Matthew, Mark and Luke. Study them, learn them, practice them. Be like Jesus – the Christ! Everything else in the New Testament is just “Paulism” and is fit only for the bovine masses.
     
    In the book of Acts, also written by Luke, Jesus is described as appearing to Paul and appointing him to carry the Gospel to the Gentiles as well as to "kings and the sons of Israel". (Acts 9:3-16) and yet you believe that all of Paul's writings (which make up most of the New Testament but not all), are "fit only for the bovine masses"? Obviously Jesus, the one you say people should be like, would disagree with you.
    , @BB753
    @antipater_1

    That's the problem with Protestantism.

    Every man looking for God and finding Him in themselves, after poring over the Bible. Then believing they're small gods too in a way. Which leads to liberalism and New Age pantheism: there is no God, WE are God. The ultimate hubris.

    While atheism is the proposition that there's no need for God because we're godly just by following holy political correctness and higher inclusiveness of vibrancy and sexual otherness and saintly liberalism or whatever tripe liberals happen to believe.
    Only Jesus and Saints can face temptation and conquer Satan. Every man is no saint.
    Protestantism inevitably leads to liberalism and sin.

    Replies: @ConcernedAmerican

  29. Wasn’t Henry VIII’s dissolution of the monastaries a form of eminent domain taking?

    And when he fired his counselors they stayed fired.

    And isn’t his current wife getting a little old? (she’s older than Ted Cruz!) Time for #4
    Anyhow if you’re going to have a purely universalist religion you’re going to have a theology that backs what the Pope said.

    • Replies: @5371
    @anony-mouse

    You seem not to know much about Christianity. A negligible proportion of Christians in history have believed that their religion implies secular rulers have no right to control entry to their own territory.

    , @Tracy
    @anony-mouse


    Anyhow if you’re going to have a purely universalist religion you’re going to have a theology that backs what the Pope said.
     
    Not so at all. Traditional Catholic teaching -- not what this present Pope is spewing (non-dogmatically, of course, and involving nothing a Catholic must believe) -- is all about subsidiarity when it comes to the social stuff. Being of one faith makes men brothers in Christ, but it doesn't necessarily make them politically compatible, and no Church teaching says otherwise.

    The Catholic Encyclopedia, in its entry "Migration," says, "The justification of public interference [with migration] is to be found in the right of a nation to control the variations of its own population. The highest necessity is that arising from war: on this ground nations almost universally regulate very closely the movements of population, forbidding emigration, that they may not lose their soldiers, and guarding immigration as a military precaution. Restrictive measures are also justified on grounds of health and morals, and on the general ground that a national family has a right to say who shall join it."
  30. @Andrew
    @Sparkling Wiggle

    Sparkling Wiggle:

    "Funny how when there’s an actual example of a case where a wall of separation between church and state is appropriate, the left sides with the theocrats."

    That is because by the time the "Wall of Separation" was formulated by Jefferson, the Congregationalists/Unitarians/Deists/Baptists of Yankeedom and their clingers-on in other colonies had already succeeded in making their personal moralistic therapeutic deist progressivism the established state religion.

    Once you are the established religion, a "Wall of Separation" is needed to prevent anyone else from dethroning your ascendancy via their own beliefs.

    So no hypocrisy, just power politics.

    Replies: @boogerbently, @ben tillman

    Except that the alleged “wall” only works one way.

  31. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @rod1963
    @Anonymous

    So you know the exact nature of Trump's faith by what means?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @epebble

    We make inferences all the time in these comments about the rhetoric spewed by politicians and cultural controllers. It looks stupid especially here among a hyper critical analytical crowd to take Trump at his word when he has in his long publicly recorded life not shown concern for religion. Otherwise you might be too dim witted to make a contribution in these comments.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Anonymous

    A lot of people treat their Chrisitanity as a personal thing between them and God, given that it is ultimately about personal salvation. Trump may not be especially religious; that doesn't mean he doesn't consider himself a Christian. Certainly he doesn't drip God-talk like thick syrup over everything, as the oleaginous Rafael Cruz was doing in Iowa.

    , @rod1963
    @Anonymous

    Ahhh, what a nasty piece of work you are. Insults right off the bat.

    Kinda figured that out from your first comment, just spewing hate like some dim witted troll.

    And you have no idea at all what his personal religious views or values are at all.

    The fact is we can only go by a person's behavior not their words. I've seen plenty of Catholics and Evangelicals that were as nasty and hypocritical as they come. And I've met some that were as decent as can be.

    Trump so far has never put on phony religious airs that many in the political class do, which I like. He doesn't claim to be "The Face of God" like Cruz, or a "good Christian" like the Bush's who then proceed to destroy a nation and murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis for some bizarre reason.

    Trump will certainly not accomplish what he sets to do - the GOP controlled Congress will set to it, but compared to the rest of candidates he looks much more appealing and honest. At least he admits our country is f**ked up, that both political parties have raped the people and country and that the current gangs running the show - the Bush's and Clintons are very bad people/

    And BTW he's our middle-finger to wimpy intellectual snot jobs and the political class that has bent this country over for the last 30 years and used it as their private piggy bank. This is why most of his supporters don't give a rats ass what nobodies like you and the intelligentsia have to say about him or us - which is usually 3rd grade insults most of the time.

  32. @Eustace Tilley (not)
    It almost seems that the gods themselves are working for Trump. When he mentioned deporting illegals, we soon had the multiply-deported illegal Mexican shoot the American girl in San Francisco. When he mentioned "temporarily" stopping Muslim immigration, we then had San Bernadino.

    Now the Pope, a foreign head of state, is interfering in an American election and questioning Trump's Christianity shortly before Trump faces the judgement of the Bible-toting, God-fearing, not-very-Catholic Republican voters of South Carolina.

    Thank you, Jesus!

    Replies: @boogerbently, @Hibernian

    Who does the pope think he is, anyway, God, or something ?

  33. A gift to Trump on the eve of South Carolina. Is he lucky or what?

  34. @Andrew
    @Sparkling Wiggle

    Sparkling Wiggle:

    "Funny how when there’s an actual example of a case where a wall of separation between church and state is appropriate, the left sides with the theocrats."

    That is because by the time the "Wall of Separation" was formulated by Jefferson, the Congregationalists/Unitarians/Deists/Baptists of Yankeedom and their clingers-on in other colonies had already succeeded in making their personal moralistic therapeutic deist progressivism the established state religion.

    Once you are the established religion, a "Wall of Separation" is needed to prevent anyone else from dethroning your ascendancy via their own beliefs.

    So no hypocrisy, just power politics.

    Replies: @boogerbently, @ben tillman

    That is because by the time the “Wall of Separation” was formulated by Jefferson, the Congregationalists/Unitarians/Deists/Baptists of Yankeedom and their clingers-on in other colonies had already succeeded in making their personal moralistic therapeutic deist progressivism….

    That’s a silly canard.

  35. In the old days, a Pope could excommunicate someone from the Church and it was a big deal (what were you going to do — move to the Byzantine Empire?) Now, all it takes to be Christian is a valid baptism, which can be performed by heretical sects:

    2. An individual becomes “Christian” by, and only by, (valid) baptism. Donald Trump was apparently baptized Presbyterian, which faith community has valid baptism. Donald Trump is, therefore, as a matter of canon law (c. 204), Christian. Trump might be a good Christian or a bad one—I cannot say, and neither can anyone else. Trump might do and say things consistent with Christian values or in contradiction to them, but his status as baptized, and therefore as Christian, is beyond dispute.

    There is more good stuff here, for those who love canon law:

    https://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/18/seven-quick-thoughts-on-the-most-recent-papal-presser/

  36. “In 846 seventy vessels attacked Ostia and Porto, when the Musulmans advanced, ravaging the country, to the very walls of Rome, profaning the church of San Pietro. The garrison of Gregoriopolis was unable to check them. They were finally repulsed by Guido di Spoleto. Lothair’s expedition in the following year did not succeed in recovering Bari. In 849, at the instigation of the Pope, Amalfi, Gaeta and Naples formed a league against the Saracens, and assembled a fleet at Ostia; the Pope, Leo IV, going thither to bless it. It won a great naval victory over the Saracens. At the same time, the Pope surrounded the Vatican city with a wall, the enclosed area being known as the Civitas Leonina (848–852).

    – Henri Pirenne, Mohammed and Charlemagne

    • Agree: Anonym
    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    @SDMatt

    The walls of Constantinople served the same purpose for well-nigh a millenium. Although I personally lean towards a "defense in depth" fence, the wall metaphor is good.

    , @Steve Sailer
    @SDMatt

    Thanks, I'll use this.

    Steve

  37. iSteveFan says:

    ABOARD THE PAPAL AIRLINER

    It’s not just an airliner. It’s an Airbus A330 for Christ’s sake. That’s a wide body airliner that typically carries 300-plus passengers. Why does the pope and his entourage need such a behemoth? Who pays for it? I noticed it was part of Alitalia’s fleet, but does the Vatican foot the bill, or do Italian taxpayers?

    • Replies: @Matra
    @iSteveFan

    It was always the case that the Vatican chartered an Alitalia plane out of Italy and returned on an airline, also chartered, from the last country visited. That would be the US on this trip. Trump has a plane!
    This Pope seems to have changed that as Alitalia is being used the entire trip. Journalists usually pay for their seats on the plane.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @ConcernedAmerican
    @iSteveFan


    It’s an Airbus A330 for Christ’s sake.
     
    Why use the name of Jesus Christ as a swear word? Why not use the name of Stalin or some other person who has done great evil, like a serial killer. What has Jesus done to have his name used as a curse word?
  38. @Whoiwasthelasttime
    I was in Rome this last December. Noticed lots of walls and guards around the Vatican city. Also noticed what a great mosque Saint Peter's cathedral will make.

    Replies: @snorlax

    Also noticed what a great mosque Saint Peter’s cathedral will make.

    I’d say the odds are presently about 50-50 I’ll see that in my lifetime.

  39. @Anon
    They can turn this into a TV show.

    Love boat. Or Rape Boat.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/12162814/Sweden-turns-to-Caribbean-cruise-ship-to-house-refugees.html

    Replies: @Winthorp

  40. With the Dissolution of the Monasteries, among other things, it would appear that it was Henry VIII who picked a fight with the pope, and not the other way around.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @wiseguy

    "With the Dissolution of the Monasteries, among other things, it would appear that it was Henry VIII who picked a fight with the pope, and not the other way around."

    Of course one might well ask what business the Pope and his Church had owning so much land in England.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Hibernian

  41. @Cagey Beast
    This current pope has really strengthened my interest in Eastern Orthodoxy.

    Replies: @antipater_1, @iSteveFan, @gruff, @Diversity Heretic, @Percy Gryce, @SFG

    Here is a rather long interview on Youtube of an American protestant who converted and became an Orthodox Priest. He now runs an Orthodox Church in southern Oregon.

  42. @Anonymous
    This is good. Now we just need the Queen of England to denounce Trump and he'll be a shoo-in.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Anonymous

    Yeah, where are all those world leaders when you need them? We could do with an anti-Trump rant from the Dalai Lama too.

  43. @Cagey Beast
    This current pope has really strengthened my interest in Eastern Orthodoxy.

    Replies: @antipater_1, @iSteveFan, @gruff, @Diversity Heretic, @Percy Gryce, @SFG

    The Eastern mystical tradition is still very vital. “The Mountain of Silence” by Markides is a good place to start.

  44. If we’re speaking truth to power, perhaps Francis can also discuss this with the mostly Euro white Mexican elite. who have no problem shipping their nonwhite troubles north. May be he could even get an audience with the Lebanese-Mexican guy who owns the New York Times and ask him how he makes his fortune on the backs of illegals with expensive phone cards and remittance fees from illegals in El Notre. Have no idea if Carlos Slim is Catholic, though many Lebanese are.

  45. I regard myself as a Roman Catholic and my basic attitude towards this Pope and all his pomps and snares is to hope that he is soon removed from an office he is not fit to fill. The man is a left-wing, looney-toon idiot.

  46. Francis just did a great deal of damage to the Catholic Church in the United States. This may mark the beginning of an Episcopalian-style demographic meltdown among white Catholics, and permanently establish Catholicism as a Mestizo faith here in the US.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Bill P


    ...and permanently establish Catholicism as a Mestizo faith here in the US.
     
    Ha! Except for the abuelitas, Mexicans are even worse Catholics than are Americans. And that takes some work!

    Besides the anticlericals and laïcists, there are evangelicals and other Protestant sects. And Mormons to boot. My Mexican neighbors belong to an offshoot of the Seventh Day Adventists. Sounds innocent enough, but the Branch Davidians had the same origin.

    I sure hope we're out of this building before Loretta Lynch burns it down.

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic

    , @Diversity Heretic
    @Bill P

    The more Catholic Christianity becomes loud, brown and obnoxious, the more the elites will love it.

    , @Percy Gryce
    @Bill P

    That's a bit apocalyptic. Catholic ties and commitments run deeper than a few offhand remarks by an old pope.

  47. @iSteveFan

    ABOARD THE PAPAL AIRLINER
     
    It's not just an airliner. It's an Airbus A330 for Christ's sake. That's a wide body airliner that typically carries 300-plus passengers. Why does the pope and his entourage need such a behemoth? Who pays for it? I noticed it was part of Alitalia's fleet, but does the Vatican foot the bill, or do Italian taxpayers?

    Replies: @Matra, @ConcernedAmerican

    It was always the case that the Vatican chartered an Alitalia plane out of Italy and returned on an airline, also chartered, from the last country visited. That would be the US on this trip. Trump has a plane!
    This Pope seems to have changed that as Alitalia is being used the entire trip. Journalists usually pay for their seats on the plane.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Matra


    It was always the case that the Vatican chartered an Alitalia plane out of Italy and returned on an airline, also chartered, from the last country visited.
     
    JP II flew TWA. So did Paul VI. Fulton Sheen dubbed them "Traveling With Angels".

    Replies: @Brutusale

  48. @Anonymous
    This is good. Now we just need the Queen of England to denounce Trump and he'll be a shoo-in.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Anonymous

    This is good. Now we just need the Queen of England to denounce Trump and he’ll be a shoo-in.

    Well, we got a rant from Justin “The Boy Wonder” Trudeau, a poor-man’s Queen of England.

  49. @ gruff

    Thanks very much. I’ve only started reading up on Orthodoxy recently but I’ve found the concepts of theosis and sin as hamartia, or “missing the mark” to be very interesting.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Cagey Beast

    I meant to say thanks to gruff, iSteveFan and antipater_1 in one shot but I guess only one name with an @ symbol prepended to it will work.

    , @ConcernedAmerican
    @Cagey Beast

    I would respectfully suggest that you ignore the advice "antipater_1" gave you. As the Bible says:

    "All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16).

    The smorgasbord approach to the Bible doesn't actually work and isn't recommended.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    , @Tracy
    @Cagey Beast


    Thanks very much. I’ve only started reading up on Orthodoxy recently but I’ve found the concepts of theosis and sin as hamartia, or “missing the mark” to be very interesting.
     
    Those concepts are Catholic as well. That aside, I understand your temptations towards Orthodoxy. I'm trad Catholic, which is a hard thing to be with a Pope like the one we've got. But still, Francis is talking off the cuff with all his ramblings. He says nothing we have to believe. It's chatter, not dogma. So I try to ignore it and carry on. Wish the media would ignore it all, too. Sigh.
  50. @Cagey Beast
    @ gruff
    @iSteveFan
    @antipater_1

    Thanks very much. I've only started reading up on Orthodoxy recently but I've found the concepts of theosis and sin as hamartia, or "missing the mark" to be very interesting.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @ConcernedAmerican, @Tracy

    I meant to say thanks to gruff, iSteveFan and antipater_1 in one shot but I guess only one name with an @ symbol prepended to it will work.

  51. @Anonymous
    @rod1963

    We make inferences all the time in these comments about the rhetoric spewed by politicians and cultural controllers. It looks stupid especially here among a hyper critical analytical crowd to take Trump at his word when he has in his long publicly recorded life not shown concern for religion. Otherwise you might be too dim witted to make a contribution in these comments.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @rod1963

    A lot of people treat their Chrisitanity as a personal thing between them and God, given that it is ultimately about personal salvation. Trump may not be especially religious; that doesn’t mean he doesn’t consider himself a Christian. Certainly he doesn’t drip God-talk like thick syrup over everything, as the oleaginous Rafael Cruz was doing in Iowa.

  52. “Pope Francis on Wednesday suggested that Donald J. Trump “is not Christian” because of the harshness of his campaign promises to deport more immigrants and force Mexico to pay for a wall along the border.”

    I think that Trump already responded in the obvious way – to point out that the Pope’s home is surrounded by high, fortress-like walls, and that immigration into his little principality is strictly controlled.

  53. “Previous Anglosphere nationalists declared to be not a Christian by popes include Henry VIII and Elizabeth I.”

    One must be ever vigilant against popish conspiracy.

  54. @wiseguy
    With the Dissolution of the Monasteries, among other things, it would appear that it was Henry VIII who picked a fight with the pope, and not the other way around.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    “With the Dissolution of the Monasteries, among other things, it would appear that it was Henry VIII who picked a fight with the pope, and not the other way around.”

    Of course one might well ask what business the Pope and his Church had owning so much land in England.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Mr. Anon


    Of course one might well ask what business the Pope and his Church had owning so much land in England.
     
    They bought it? Over a thousand-year period. And the monks themselves were English.

    Anyway, if the Pope is encroaching on the King's domain, the answer isn't for the King to encroach on the Pope's.

    By the way, a rousing defense of all the sacraments and the primacy of the existing Church was published shortly before this time. Who wrote it?

    Why, Henry himself:

    http://keysofpeter.org/book/warning.htm
    http://keysofpeter.org/book/message.htm

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Ralph Raico

    , @Hibernian
    @Mr. Anon

    The land was used to aid the poor. When it was sold, the proceeds, originally pledged to be used by the King to aid the poor, were instead used to finance the King's wars. Anne Boleyn was beheaded at least in part because she protested this policy. Also, it cannot be assumed that Church land is personally owned by the Pope.

  55. There is a rumor floating around that Francis is actually an atheist. Perhaps this has distorted his “Christian detector.” He should point it towards Barack.

  56. @Harry Baldwin
    "Is the pope Catholic?" was once a rhetorical question. It's now a legitimate one.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Joseph A.

    Agree.

  57. @rod1963
    @Anonymous

    So you know the exact nature of Trump's faith by what means?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @epebble

    I have no god in this fight; but I think Trump seems to be in violation of 7th, 8th and 10th Commandments, if it matters. And by his own admission, he hasn’t sought forgiveness.

    A fair reading of http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/trump-has-never-sought-forgiveness/ would indicate he is not a Christian as normally understood.

    • Replies: @rod1963
    @epebble

    Actually it's the Pope's religion that is in question. He certainly is no Catholic or Christian for that matter but a Marxist Jesuit practicing Liberation Theology to it's fullest. The fact that people tip toe around that is rather worrisome.

    Then again a lot of Protestant denominations are larded up with Marxists and New Agers like Shelby Spong as ministers.

    This so-called Pope has so far equated the Bible with the Koran, supports AGW, open borders, Muslim migration to the West, refuses to condemn Islam for the mass murder of Christians in the ME, refuses to condemn ISIS. Instead he attacks the West and capitalism.

    He's not Joel Osteen stupid, he knows what he's doing.

    It was clear from day one when the Left went nuts over him, that something was horribly wrong. The Left normally hates Christians and Catholics the same Jihadists hate infidels. Yet they went gaga over him.

    In short he is not a defender of the faith nor of the West but it's enemy.

    Replies: @BB753

  58. @Harry Baldwin
    "Is the pope Catholic?" was once a rhetorical question. It's now a legitimate one.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Joseph A.

    H.B.: “’Is the pope Catholic?’ was once a rhetorical question. It’s now a legitimate one.”

    This was exactly what I thought when I heard about the fuss.

  59. @Matra
    @iSteveFan

    It was always the case that the Vatican chartered an Alitalia plane out of Italy and returned on an airline, also chartered, from the last country visited. That would be the US on this trip. Trump has a plane!
    This Pope seems to have changed that as Alitalia is being used the entire trip. Journalists usually pay for their seats on the plane.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    It was always the case that the Vatican chartered an Alitalia plane out of Italy and returned on an airline, also chartered, from the last country visited.

    JP II flew TWA. So did Paul VI. Fulton Sheen dubbed them “Traveling With Angels”.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Reg Cæsar

    Microaggression Warning!

    Popes flying on the old TWA caused some local Irish-Catholic wags of my acquaintance to say that TWA stood for "Top Wop Aboard".

    Replies: @AndrewR

  60. Like most Trump outrages du jour, this one is largely based on a misquote. The full quote from Pope Francis was a classic Trump style hedged insult in its own right.

    The full quote from Pope Francis was:

    “A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not of building bridges, is not Christian. This is not the gospel. As far as what you said about whether I would advise to vote or not to vote, I am not going to get involved in that. I say only that this is man is not Christian if he has said things like that. We must see if he said things in that way and I will give him the benefit of the doubt.”

    Of course, this did not stop the NY Times from cutting off the quote at the first “is not Christian.”

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    @Clifford Brown

    You think that the rest of the quote changes anything? Of course, Donald Trump has said he'll build a wall--he's even specified the source of the financing. Since Donald Trump is not Catholic, the Pope cannot excommunicate him. But for a Church that refuses to excommunicate professing Catholics who violate clear Church orthodoxy on issues such as abortion, to declare a person a non-Christian for what is clearly an issue of public policy within the purview of secular authority, is outrageous. Will this Pope presume to excommunicate Catholic leaders in eastern Europe who are also putting up walls (bless their hearts) to keep out invaders? How will the bishops of these countries react if he does? We may be closer to Catholic schism than people think!

  61. @Bill P
    Francis just did a great deal of damage to the Catholic Church in the United States. This may mark the beginning of an Episcopalian-style demographic meltdown among white Catholics, and permanently establish Catholicism as a Mestizo faith here in the US.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Diversity Heretic, @Percy Gryce

    …and permanently establish Catholicism as a Mestizo faith here in the US.

    Ha! Except for the abuelitas, Mexicans are even worse Catholics than are Americans. And that takes some work!

    Besides the anticlericals and laïcists, there are evangelicals and other Protestant sects. And Mormons to boot. My Mexican neighbors belong to an offshoot of the Seventh Day Adventists. Sounds innocent enough, but the Branch Davidians had the same origin.

    I sure hope we’re out of this building before Loretta Lynch burns it down.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    @Reg Cæsar

    Your point on the religious diversity of the U.S. is a good one. A lot of political theoreticians throughout the ages have doubted the ability of a polity to hold together in the absence of a generally unifying religion, possibly even a civic one, which I think was the case of the U.S. until about 1960.

    I'm beginning to think that a state church might not be such a bad idea--many states had them even after independence. The Establishment clause of the First Amendment was largely to prevent Congress from establishing a national church--it in no way forbid state churches at the state level. My idea of a state church is that "I don't care what you actually believe, but you go through the motions, or pay a fine." Thoughts for the eventual white ethnostate.

  62. @Mr. Anon
    @wiseguy

    "With the Dissolution of the Monasteries, among other things, it would appear that it was Henry VIII who picked a fight with the pope, and not the other way around."

    Of course one might well ask what business the Pope and his Church had owning so much land in England.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Hibernian

    Of course one might well ask what business the Pope and his Church had owning so much land in England.

    They bought it? Over a thousand-year period. And the monks themselves were English.

    Anyway, if the Pope is encroaching on the King’s domain, the answer isn’t for the King to encroach on the Pope’s.

    By the way, a rousing defense of all the sacraments and the primacy of the existing Church was published shortly before this time. Who wrote it?

    Why, Henry himself:

    http://keysofpeter.org/book/warning.htm
    http://keysofpeter.org/book/message.htm

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Reg Cæsar

    "They bought it? Over a thousand-year period."

    Did they? Really? I believe a lot of church land was granted to it by nobles and even kings.

    "Anyway, if the Pope is encroaching on the King’s domain, the answer isn’t for the King to encroach on the Pope’s."

    Evidently, that was the answer for Henry VIII

    "By the way, a rousing defense of all the sacraments and the primacy of the existing Church was published shortly before this time. Who wrote it?

    Why, Henry himself:"

    Yes, it is well known what a stalwart defender of the Church Henry was,.......... right up to the point that he wasn't. You won't find me defending that rotten old swine. His old man was a much better King (though not without faults himself).

    , @Ralph Raico
    @Reg Cæsar

    Reg Caesar's exactly right. And as a reward for Henry's advocacy, the Pope bestowed on him the title, "Defender of the Faith," which English monarchs carry to this day.

  63. @Anonymous
    This is a weak post because Trump isn't a Christian. And his declarations of Christian faith make him look dishonest and lacking in integrity. It's a bad strategy for him to make such a big deal of being pious.

    Replies: @rod1963, @Perplexed, @Anonymous, @dr kill

    Trump is Christian enough to defend the right to conscience of all American Christians. Americans won’t let the Pope push them around. Butt out, Mr. Pope. (Hey, since you’re in Mexico, you could talk about Mexico’s stringent immigration laws.)

  64. @antipater_1
    @Cagey Beast

    Cagey Beast - there is no need for Eastern Orthodoxy. There are only 3 books in the Bible that matter. Matthew, Mark and Luke. Study them, learn them, practice them. Be like Jesus - the Christ! Everything else in the New Testament is just "Paulism" and is fit only for the bovine masses.
    Christianity is not for the masses. It is for a Vanguard Elite. That is the entire point of Protestantism. Every man must do his own thinking. Every man must find his own way to God.

    Replies: @ConcernedAmerican, @BB753

    There are only 3 books in the Bible that matter. Matthew, Mark and Luke. Study them, learn them, practice them. Be like Jesus – the Christ! Everything else in the New Testament is just “Paulism” and is fit only for the bovine masses.

    In the book of Acts, also written by Luke, Jesus is described as appearing to Paul and appointing him to carry the Gospel to the Gentiles as well as to “kings and the sons of Israel”. (Acts 9:3-16) and yet you believe that all of Paul’s writings (which make up most of the New Testament but not all), are “fit only for the bovine masses”? Obviously Jesus, the one you say people should be like, would disagree with you.

  65. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City says
    "The Vatican, officially the Vatican City State (Latin: Status Civitatis Vaticanae), is a walled enclave and sovereign state." As a sovereign state, they must have a program of visas for guest workers and immigrants. Where on this country's website are its visa categories listed? Is its head of state entitled to vote in any foreign country, such as Argentina?

    Replies: @International Jew

    I was there recently and as far as I could see, there are no hotels, apartments or houses of any kind anywhere in the areas accessible to the public. I guess what housing there is (behind walls and gates manned by the Swiss Guards) is technically all “employee housing”.

    Cool place nonetheless.

  66. @Anon
    Funny how NYT loves Christianity only when it is anti-white.

    Btw, the natives of the Americas were not Christians. In becoming Christian, weren't they conquered and enslaved by another people?

    This Pope is Latin American. So, what was the history of Christianity in the New World?

    A forced bridge that led to the demise of the natives.

    That's what happens when you don't have effective walls.

    Replies: @Lagertha, @RaceRealist88, @SFG

    Like “The Mission.” All those dead Amerindians, Hopi, Navajo, etc.

  67. @kihowi
    Trump has been re-tweeting pictures of the giant wall that surrounds Vatican City. Sure, there's an opening in it, but that happens to be exactly what Trump has been saying he wants: "a beautiful wall with a big door".

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Lagertha, @tbraton

    Was it AD 859 when the wall went up against the Muslim pirates?

  68. @Cagey Beast
    @ gruff
    @iSteveFan
    @antipater_1

    Thanks very much. I've only started reading up on Orthodoxy recently but I've found the concepts of theosis and sin as hamartia, or "missing the mark" to be very interesting.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @ConcernedAmerican, @Tracy

    I would respectfully suggest that you ignore the advice “antipater_1” gave you. As the Bible says:

    “All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16).

    The smorgasbord approach to the Bible doesn’t actually work and isn’t recommended.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @ConcernedAmerican


    I would respectfully suggest that you ignore the advice “antipater_1″ gave you. As the Bible says:

    “All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16).
     
    But that begs the question, since it didn't, and couldn't, define "scripture" to mean the 66 books included in the Bible.

    Replies: @ConcernedAmerican

  69. @anony-mouse
    Wasn't Henry VIII's dissolution of the monastaries a form of eminent domain taking?

    And when he fired his counselors they stayed fired.

    And isn't his current wife getting a little old? (she's older than Ted Cruz!) Time for #4
    Anyhow if you're going to have a purely universalist religion you're going to have a theology that backs what the Pope said.

    Replies: @5371, @Tracy

    You seem not to know much about Christianity. A negligible proportion of Christians in history have believed that their religion implies secular rulers have no right to control entry to their own territory.

  70. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    This is a weak post because Trump isn't a Christian. And his declarations of Christian faith make him look dishonest and lacking in integrity. It's a bad strategy for him to make such a big deal of being pious.

    Replies: @rod1963, @Perplexed, @Anonymous, @dr kill


    This is a weak post because Trump isn’t a Christian.

    He may not be observant or “a good christian” but that does not make him ex communicado.

    Throughout history there have been millions of Christian guys like Trump.

    PS This pope is the person whose Christianity is in question.

    This pope does not believe in “leave unto Caesar”…

    This pope doesn’t believe in “store up your treasures in heaven”….

    This pope doesn’t believe in “judge not so that ye be not judged”…

    Etc

  71. @Anonymous
    @rod1963

    We make inferences all the time in these comments about the rhetoric spewed by politicians and cultural controllers. It looks stupid especially here among a hyper critical analytical crowd to take Trump at his word when he has in his long publicly recorded life not shown concern for religion. Otherwise you might be too dim witted to make a contribution in these comments.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @rod1963

    Ahhh, what a nasty piece of work you are. Insults right off the bat.

    Kinda figured that out from your first comment, just spewing hate like some dim witted troll.

    And you have no idea at all what his personal religious views or values are at all.

    The fact is we can only go by a person’s behavior not their words. I’ve seen plenty of Catholics and Evangelicals that were as nasty and hypocritical as they come. And I’ve met some that were as decent as can be.

    Trump so far has never put on phony religious airs that many in the political class do, which I like. He doesn’t claim to be “The Face of God” like Cruz, or a “good Christian” like the Bush’s who then proceed to destroy a nation and murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis for some bizarre reason.

    Trump will certainly not accomplish what he sets to do – the GOP controlled Congress will set to it, but compared to the rest of candidates he looks much more appealing and honest. At least he admits our country is f**ked up, that both political parties have raped the people and country and that the current gangs running the show – the Bush’s and Clintons are very bad people/

    And BTW he’s our middle-finger to wimpy intellectual snot jobs and the political class that has bent this country over for the last 30 years and used it as their private piggy bank. This is why most of his supporters don’t give a rats ass what nobodies like you and the intelligentsia have to say about him or us – which is usually 3rd grade insults most of the time.

  72. @Hepp
    Has the Pope ever questioned the Christianity of those who support homosexuals or partial birth abortion?

    People who have a sincere faith in God can be among the most immune to PC culture (see Mormons, Islamists, the Amish). This Pope's real God is the liberal media.

    Replies: @Lagertha

    Honest to God, when I first heard about the ‘ The Wall Wars,’ all I could think about was Father Guido Sarducci…thought this whole issue today, was a joke – a ha hah! sort of Onion piece in February of, ” let’s shake things up,” because we need to shake things up – too many GOP candidates hanging on with the tips of their fingers.

    Weirdly, the Pope and Donald have some similarities: they both feel very confident to just say stuff because they are celebrities; and their messages are “a calling” for many people. Pope is way weird and crude this time, because, let’s not kid ourselves, Protestants really stopped listening to Catholics soooo long ago, and some Catholics are also dumbfounded as to why this Pope felt he needs to emote about Donald.

    Am I the only one who is sooooo tired of this Pope? He and his 39 foot high wall @ the Vatican just need to butt-out of our presidential race. I do love his stance on the well being of animals and children….but he should really just shut up about American politics. Am I alone in this?

    • Replies: @fnn
    @Lagertha


    I do love his stance on the well being of animals and children
     
    Well, then here is something the Argentinian Pope should be speaking about:
    http://www.wakingtimes.com/2016/02/18/clueless-argentinian-beachgoers-kill-rare-baby-dolphin-while-taking-selfies/

    Replies: @Lagertha

  73. @iSteveFan

    ABOARD THE PAPAL AIRLINER
     
    It's not just an airliner. It's an Airbus A330 for Christ's sake. That's a wide body airliner that typically carries 300-plus passengers. Why does the pope and his entourage need such a behemoth? Who pays for it? I noticed it was part of Alitalia's fleet, but does the Vatican foot the bill, or do Italian taxpayers?

    Replies: @Matra, @ConcernedAmerican

    It’s an Airbus A330 for Christ’s sake.

    Why use the name of Jesus Christ as a swear word? Why not use the name of Stalin or some other person who has done great evil, like a serial killer. What has Jesus done to have his name used as a curse word?

  74. I think all the Pope meant was that all human beings are God’s children from a Christian point of view and that building walls is not a Christian way of going about things. I don’t think he was intending to imply that Trump is a Hindu or a Sikh, more that his thinking is not primarily informed by Christian ideals.

    I have been seriously thinking of voting for Trump, but when he gets into these kind of spats, you have to wonder how good his judgment is. He is probably going to lose some Catholic votes over this.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jonathan Mason

    Is that really true?

    Throughout history, the Roman Catholic church has shown itself to be exceptionally intolerant to anyone who is not a Roman Catholics - in regions where it held political power, that is.
    Not so much 'building walls' more excluding and eliminating those not of the Catholic confession.

    , @Anonymous
    @Jonathan Mason

    Well, that's Trump's 'thing'.

    He couldn't give a damn about who he 'offends' or doesn't offend, he just keeps doing his own thing and remains his own man.

    , @Brutusale
    @Jonathan Mason

    I'm in Boston, a Catholic surrounded by Catholics, and NONE of them is backing the Pope's statement.

    Trump's instincts are far superior to those of Pope Frankie. The news cycle dictates that this is news right where Trump wants it, just before Catholic-hating evangelical Southerners go to the polls. By next week, it's forgotten.

    As a Catholic, I want the Nazi back!

    , @RadicalCenter
    @Jonathan Mason

    Lifelong Catholic and soon-to-be ex-Catholic here.

    Jorge Bergoglio's presumptuous, rude, and ignorant comments are not hurting trump with me at all. I was already embarrassed and disgusted by this Pope. In any event, even the best pope should mind his business when it comes to our elections.

    Moreover, most of the shortly-upcoming primary States are in the Deep South and the Pope's meddling and obnoxious comment will tend to HELP Trump with republican and independent voters.

    There is, of course, plenty of religious and racial diversity and change even way south, including lots of transplanted Catholics from the northeast, midatlantic, Great Lakes, and Midwest and their descendants, many of them catholic. Hey, I've got Italian-American catholic relatives who moved to Georgia nigh on thirty years ago, for example. But the southern states have a much lower percentage of white Catholics than the U.S. Average, with a non-negligible anti-catholic sentiment. In South Carolina, Alabama, to some extent all southern states except Louisiana, the population is a lower percentage white Catholic than the northern states that come afterwards. Trump must be happy dumb old Jorge spouted off in time for the big southern primaries.

    Go Donald Go

    Replies: @neon2, @Tracy

    , @BurplesonAFB
    @Jonathan Mason

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_South_Carolina#Religion

    wikipedia says 84% protestant, 7% catholic

    , @Tracy
    @Jonathan Mason


    I have been seriously thinking of voting for Trump, but when he gets into these kind of spats, you have to wonder how good his judgment is. He is probably going to lose some Catholic votes over this.
     
    Not mine. And the Pope started it, with a lot of help from the media's playing around with his words. And then Trump finished it by saying what he said in this video:https://youtu.be/bqrC8SAaZz0 I thought he handled it stupendously.
  75. I suppose I can’t object, because I don’t consider the pope Christian. More like a leftist heretic.

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    @Svigor

    If only enough bishops agreed with you that this Pope has passed beyond error into heresy. Is there a procedure for removing a Pope for heresy? Would the election of an anti-Pope be possible?

    I guess I shouldn't care because I'm not Catholic; the symbolism would be great however.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  76. @epebble
    @rod1963

    I have no god in this fight; but I think Trump seems to be in violation of 7th, 8th and 10th Commandments, if it matters. And by his own admission, he hasn't sought forgiveness.

    A fair reading of http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/trump-has-never-sought-forgiveness/ would indicate he is not a Christian as normally understood.

    Replies: @rod1963

    Actually it’s the Pope’s religion that is in question. He certainly is no Catholic or Christian for that matter but a Marxist Jesuit practicing Liberation Theology to it’s fullest. The fact that people tip toe around that is rather worrisome.

    Then again a lot of Protestant denominations are larded up with Marxists and New Agers like Shelby Spong as ministers.

    This so-called Pope has so far equated the Bible with the Koran, supports AGW, open borders, Muslim migration to the West, refuses to condemn Islam for the mass murder of Christians in the ME, refuses to condemn ISIS. Instead he attacks the West and capitalism.

    He’s not Joel Osteen stupid, he knows what he’s doing.

    It was clear from day one when the Left went nuts over him, that something was horribly wrong. The Left normally hates Christians and Catholics the same Jihadists hate infidels. Yet they went gaga over him.

    In short he is not a defender of the faith nor of the West but it’s enemy.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @rod1963

    Indeed, Bergoglio is just a Marxist in papal robes. A fraud ( like so many Argentinians). Well, you could also say all the popes after Pius XII, from John XXIII and Council Vatican II on, have been frauds.

  77. +1 for use of “oleaginous.”

    The pope should have used his time in Mexico to chastise the ruling elite there for pushing their lower classes out of Mexico and into America. For rejecting their poor, instead of helping them.

    Anyhow if you’re going to have a purely universalist religion you’re going to have a theology that backs what the Pope said.

    Like this? “All peoples have a right to exist and be secure in their own nations from race-replacement.” If the pope said something like that I’d love to know.

    Scriptural tidbit, the OT mandates that a people choose a ruler from among their own kind, no foreigners allowed. So, letting the pope what sits on his throne in Rome dictate policy in America is black-and-white heresy.

    Oh, then there was the bit where God ordered the Israelites not to suffer the presence of foreign faiths, to smash heathen temples and make war on their religion.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Svigor


    The pope should have used his time in Mexico to chastise the ruling elite there for pushing their lower classes out of Mexico and into America. For rejecting their poor, instead of helping them

     

    "For ye have the poor always with you." (Matthew 26:11). Not if you can unload them by the million on a stupid rich country to the north of you that treats border control as a joke.
  78. The Holy Father could have made a real political statement if he postponed his trip back to Rome and arrived in Washington DC and celebrated the Mass of Christian Burial for Antonin Scalia.

    May perpetual light shine upon him.

  79. The separation between religion and state – on of the key founding principles of the US constitution, has never looked a wiser principle.
    One would have thought we had moved in from medieval/feudal times, but, apparently, it appears that this rigid separation has never been more necessary.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Anonymous

    State policy is already dictated by several "religions" - racial egalitarianism, feminism, homosexual activism, etc. Insofar as they influence government policy, these have all the qualities of religions - especially those qualities that make it desirable to keep religion out of government, e.g. they're not based on objective evidence, their adherents are fanatical and vindictive towards heretics, etc. As for Christianity these days, in most Western countries the church has neither the ability nor the desire to encroach on the state. When it does, it's usually in the same way as the Pope has been doing with his criticism of Trump.

  80. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Who knows this Pope’s motivation.

    Perhaps the Vatican is still smarting from John Cornwell’s devastating volume, curtly entitled ‘Hitler’s Pope’, which in detail records Pope Pius’s utter refusal even to call out, let alone even threaten to excommunicate the German people – who are around 40% catholic – over the truthful and much publicized accounts of the sub-bestial atrocities being perpetrated in their name.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Aren't you overdoing it a bit here? You should consult your guidebook again on how to write these comments.

    , @SFG
    @Anonymous

    You must be new here. People here *like* the Nazis.

    Seriously, excommunicate the entire German populace? Has the church ever excommunicated an entire country? Usually it was the king or some baron, if I remember...

    , @The Man From K Street
    @Anonymous


    Perhaps the Vatican is still smarting from John Cornwell’s devastating volume, curtly entitled ‘Hitler’s Pope’
     
    You do know that Cornwall himself has since mostly disavowed his own book, in light of further research and disclosures?
    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous

    Bah. Check out Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn's maps comparing Catholic density with National Socialist support:

    http://i.imgur.com/JK67iaA.jpg

    Progressive Protestants have more to answer for.


    Pope Pius’s utter refusal even to call out, let alone even threaten to excommunicate...
     
    Popes don't excommunicate any more than priests marry couples. It both cases, it's something one does to oneself. The Church merely acknowledges it de facto.
    , @Tracy
    @Anonymous


    Perhaps the Vatican is still smarting from John Cornwell’s devastating volume, curtly entitled ‘Hitler’s Pope’, which in detail records Pope Pius’s utter refusal even to call out, let alone even threaten to excommunicate the German people – who are around 40% catholic – over the truthful and much publicized accounts of the sub-bestial atrocities being perpetrated in their name.
     
    Not sure if you're being serious or silly, but in case it's the former, that book has been thoroughly discredited. A few links for you: Not Hitler's Pope and Hitler's Pope?. Further, Popes don't excommunicate huge groups like that; they excommunicate individuals. But even if they were able to excommunicate "the German people," it was the Protestant areas that voted for Hitler. See the maps on the top of this page: maps showing that Catholics didn't vote for Hitler. In case you're not aware, Catholic priests and religious were rounded up and thrown into camps along with Jews.
  81. @Anonymous
    The week in daily briefings to Trump:

    Monday: Your poll numbers are high but the bad news is all members of the U.S. Congress from South Carolina have come out against you.

    Tuesday: Your poll numbers are high but the bad news is the President of United States has come out against you.

    Wednesday: Your poll numbers are high but the bad news is the Governor of South Carolina has come out against you.

    Thursday: Your poll numbers are high but the bad news is the Pope has come out against you.

    Trump: Have we picked up any newspaper endorsements?

    Campaign manager: No, they have not only come out against you but they have all compared you to either P.T. Barnum or Hitler.

    Trump: Whatever. We're going to win. We're going to win so much you'll get sick of it.

    Replies: @gda

    Spit my drink up on that one. Great stuff.

  82. Pope Francis has to be the worst pope since the Borgias.

  83. This Pope like most Popes is full of crap.

  84. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason
    I think all the Pope meant was that all human beings are God's children from a Christian point of view and that building walls is not a Christian way of going about things. I don't think he was intending to imply that Trump is a Hindu or a Sikh, more that his thinking is not primarily informed by Christian ideals.

    I have been seriously thinking of voting for Trump, but when he gets into these kind of spats, you have to wonder how good his judgment is. He is probably going to lose some Catholic votes over this.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Brutusale, @RadicalCenter, @BurplesonAFB, @Tracy

    Is that really true?

    Throughout history, the Roman Catholic church has shown itself to be exceptionally intolerant to anyone who is not a Roman Catholics – in regions where it held political power, that is.
    Not so much ‘building walls’ more excluding and eliminating those not of the Catholic confession.

  85. @Jonathan Mason
    I think all the Pope meant was that all human beings are God's children from a Christian point of view and that building walls is not a Christian way of going about things. I don't think he was intending to imply that Trump is a Hindu or a Sikh, more that his thinking is not primarily informed by Christian ideals.

    I have been seriously thinking of voting for Trump, but when he gets into these kind of spats, you have to wonder how good his judgment is. He is probably going to lose some Catholic votes over this.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Brutusale, @RadicalCenter, @BurplesonAFB, @Tracy

    Well, that’s Trump’s ‘thing’.

    He couldn’t give a damn about who he ‘offends’ or doesn’t offend, he just keeps doing his own thing and remains his own man.

  86. @Cagey Beast
    This current pope has really strengthened my interest in Eastern Orthodoxy.

    Replies: @antipater_1, @iSteveFan, @gruff, @Diversity Heretic, @Percy Gryce, @SFG

    There are a few heretical or schismatic Catholics, who follow Bishop Lefebvre and reject Vatican II. I went to a couple of services when I lived in France. Mainstream Protestanism is hopelessly cultural Marxist, as is Roman Catholicism under the present Pope. Evangelicals are shallow intellectually and I could see them eventually turning to an Islam that made a little more room for Jesus and a little less for Mohammad (don’t ask me why, it’s just an instinct of mine). Eastern Orthodoxy may be the white persons’ Christianity of the future, if there is to be one.

    The only other hope would be for explicit schism within the Catholic Church: the eastern European bishops declaring the Papacy vacant due to heresy and electing an anti-Pope. Don’t see that happening, however.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Diversity Heretic

    Yes, I had a look at some Front National friendly websites last night and they taking Trump's side over Pope Francis on this one. Lots of readers' comments starting with things like: "as a practicing Catholic I'm devastated ..." and ending with unkind words for Freemasonry.

    Meanwhile Alain Soral's site (which is quite chummy with Jean-Marie Le Pen) has an article on Putin's recent and repeated denunciations of Lenin. Soral is a former card-carrying Marxist-Leninist like Putin, so he and a lot of his readers are probably following along quite closely as Putin talks about these things.

    Meanwhile, Victor Orban was in just in Moscow for very friendly talks with Putin. There is a very interesting convergence happening suddenly.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

  87. @SDMatt
    "In 846 seventy vessels attacked Ostia and Porto, when the Musulmans advanced, ravaging the country, to the very walls of Rome, profaning the church of San Pietro. The garrison of Gregoriopolis was unable to check them. They were finally repulsed by Guido di Spoleto. Lothair’s expedition in the following year did not succeed in recovering Bari. In 849, at the instigation of the Pope, Amalfi, Gaeta and Naples formed a league against the Saracens, and assembled a fleet at Ostia; the Pope, Leo IV, going thither to bless it. It won a great naval victory over the Saracens. At the same time, the Pope surrounded the Vatican city with a wall, the enclosed area being known as the Civitas Leonina (848–852)."

    - Henri Pirenne, Mohammed and Charlemagne

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @Steve Sailer

    The walls of Constantinople served the same purpose for well-nigh a millenium. Although I personally lean towards a “defense in depth” fence, the wall metaphor is good.

  88. @Bill P
    Francis just did a great deal of damage to the Catholic Church in the United States. This may mark the beginning of an Episcopalian-style demographic meltdown among white Catholics, and permanently establish Catholicism as a Mestizo faith here in the US.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Diversity Heretic, @Percy Gryce

    The more Catholic Christianity becomes loud, brown and obnoxious, the more the elites will love it.

  89. @Clifford Brown
    Like most Trump outrages du jour, this one is largely based on a misquote. The full quote from Pope Francis was a classic Trump style hedged insult in its own right.

    The full quote from Pope Francis was:

    “A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not of building bridges, is not Christian. This is not the gospel. As far as what you said about whether I would advise to vote or not to vote, I am not going to get involved in that. I say only that this is man is not Christian if he has said things like that. We must see if he said things in that way and I will give him the benefit of the doubt.”
     
    Of course, this did not stop the NY Times from cutting off the quote at the first "is not Christian."

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic

    You think that the rest of the quote changes anything? Of course, Donald Trump has said he’ll build a wall–he’s even specified the source of the financing. Since Donald Trump is not Catholic, the Pope cannot excommunicate him. But for a Church that refuses to excommunicate professing Catholics who violate clear Church orthodoxy on issues such as abortion, to declare a person a non-Christian for what is clearly an issue of public policy within the purview of secular authority, is outrageous. Will this Pope presume to excommunicate Catholic leaders in eastern Europe who are also putting up walls (bless their hearts) to keep out invaders? How will the bishops of these countries react if he does? We may be closer to Catholic schism than people think!

  90. @Reg Cæsar
    @Bill P


    ...and permanently establish Catholicism as a Mestizo faith here in the US.
     
    Ha! Except for the abuelitas, Mexicans are even worse Catholics than are Americans. And that takes some work!

    Besides the anticlericals and laïcists, there are evangelicals and other Protestant sects. And Mormons to boot. My Mexican neighbors belong to an offshoot of the Seventh Day Adventists. Sounds innocent enough, but the Branch Davidians had the same origin.

    I sure hope we're out of this building before Loretta Lynch burns it down.

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic

    Your point on the religious diversity of the U.S. is a good one. A lot of political theoreticians throughout the ages have doubted the ability of a polity to hold together in the absence of a generally unifying religion, possibly even a civic one, which I think was the case of the U.S. until about 1960.

    I’m beginning to think that a state church might not be such a bad idea–many states had them even after independence. The Establishment clause of the First Amendment was largely to prevent Congress from establishing a national church–it in no way forbid state churches at the state level. My idea of a state church is that “I don’t care what you actually believe, but you go through the motions, or pay a fine.” Thoughts for the eventual white ethnostate.

  91. @Svigor
    I suppose I can't object, because I don't consider the pope Christian. More like a leftist heretic.

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic

    If only enough bishops agreed with you that this Pope has passed beyond error into heresy. Is there a procedure for removing a Pope for heresy? Would the election of an anti-Pope be possible?

    I guess I shouldn’t care because I’m not Catholic; the symbolism would be great however.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Diversity Heretic

    "I guess I shouldn’t care because I’m not Catholic"

    You may not be interested in the Catholic Church, but the Catholic Church is interested in you.

  92. josh says:

    Look, the current Pope is a fairly consistent embarrassment, but that was some bad historiography. Elizabeth a “nationalist”? The Faerie Queen? The Elizabethans were proto-Imperialists. They were not just heretics, they were the avowed enemies of Christs Church, intent on destroying her (which, oh by the way, they seem to have accomplished over the past 400 years).

    The Church has been wrong repeatedly in thinking that it needs a protector in Rome, or France, or Spain, or in the 20th C, the US. It should renounce worldly ambition, but that doesn’t mean ceding its natural God-ordained ecclesiastical authority. Of course, the Church was right to condemn Henry VIII, and Elizabeth. They did steal about a zillion dollars worth of Church property that had been accumulated and put to public use to pay out their own oligarchs. You are fond of talking about the rape of Russia when it suits your interest, but not the rape of England?

  93. @Lagertha
    @Hepp

    Honest to God, when I first heard about the ' The Wall Wars,' all I could think about was Father Guido Sarducci...thought this whole issue today, was a joke - a ha hah! sort of Onion piece in February of, " let's shake things up," because we need to shake things up - too many GOP candidates hanging on with the tips of their fingers.

    Weirdly, the Pope and Donald have some similarities: they both feel very confident to just say stuff because they are celebrities; and their messages are "a calling" for many people. Pope is way weird and crude this time, because, let's not kid ourselves, Protestants really stopped listening to Catholics soooo long ago, and some Catholics are also dumbfounded as to why this Pope felt he needs to emote about Donald.

    Am I the only one who is sooooo tired of this Pope? He and his 39 foot high wall @ the Vatican just need to butt-out of our presidential race. I do love his stance on the well being of animals and children....but he should really just shut up about American politics. Am I alone in this?

    Replies: @fnn

    I do love his stance on the well being of animals and children

    Well, then here is something the Argentinian Pope should be speaking about:
    http://www.wakingtimes.com/2016/02/18/clueless-argentinian-beachgoers-kill-rare-baby-dolphin-while-taking-selfies/

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @fnn

    Ugh! I retract my comment about innocent children! Maybe those cruel children need to "expect some Spanish Inquisition," to straighten them out.

    Replies: @ben tillman

  94. @kihowi
    Trump has been re-tweeting pictures of the giant wall that surrounds Vatican City. Sure, there's an opening in it, but that happens to be exactly what Trump has been saying he wants: "a beautiful wall with a big door".

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Lagertha, @tbraton

    Hey, the Vatican is an independent state. That wall serves as protection from the Italians. We know how vicious they can be. All you have to do is read Gibbon to get some idea of what atrocities they are capable of. Besides, there is a lot of valuable art located there. If you had such a valuable art collection, you would certainly build a wall to protect that art.

  95. @Svigor
    +1 for use of "oleaginous."

    The pope should have used his time in Mexico to chastise the ruling elite there for pushing their lower classes out of Mexico and into America. For rejecting their poor, instead of helping them.

    Anyhow if you’re going to have a purely universalist religion you’re going to have a theology that backs what the Pope said.
     
    Like this? "All peoples have a right to exist and be secure in their own nations from race-replacement." If the pope said something like that I'd love to know.

    Scriptural tidbit, the OT mandates that a people choose a ruler from among their own kind, no foreigners allowed. So, letting the pope what sits on his throne in Rome dictate policy in America is black-and-white heresy.

    Oh, then there was the bit where God ordered the Israelites not to suffer the presence of foreign faiths, to smash heathen temples and make war on their religion.

    Replies: @Rob McX

    The pope should have used his time in Mexico to chastise the ruling elite there for pushing their lower classes out of Mexico and into America. For rejecting their poor, instead of helping them

    “For ye have the poor always with you.” (Matthew 26:11). Not if you can unload them by the million on a stupid rich country to the north of you that treats border control as a joke.

  96. @Anonymous
    The separation between religion and state - on of the key founding principles of the US constitution, has never looked a wiser principle.
    One would have thought we had moved in from medieval/feudal times, but, apparently, it appears that this rigid separation has never been more necessary.

    Replies: @Rob McX

    State policy is already dictated by several “religions” – racial egalitarianism, feminism, homosexual activism, etc. Insofar as they influence government policy, these have all the qualities of religions – especially those qualities that make it desirable to keep religion out of government, e.g. they’re not based on objective evidence, their adherents are fanatical and vindictive towards heretics, etc. As for Christianity these days, in most Western countries the church has neither the ability nor the desire to encroach on the state. When it does, it’s usually in the same way as the Pope has been doing with his criticism of Trump.

  97. @Diversity Heretic
    @Cagey Beast

    There are a few heretical or schismatic Catholics, who follow Bishop Lefebvre and reject Vatican II. I went to a couple of services when I lived in France. Mainstream Protestanism is hopelessly cultural Marxist, as is Roman Catholicism under the present Pope. Evangelicals are shallow intellectually and I could see them eventually turning to an Islam that made a little more room for Jesus and a little less for Mohammad (don't ask me why, it's just an instinct of mine). Eastern Orthodoxy may be the white persons' Christianity of the future, if there is to be one.

    The only other hope would be for explicit schism within the Catholic Church: the eastern European bishops declaring the Papacy vacant due to heresy and electing an anti-Pope. Don't see that happening, however.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    Yes, I had a look at some Front National friendly websites last night and they taking Trump’s side over Pope Francis on this one. Lots of readers’ comments starting with things like: “as a practicing Catholic I’m devastated …” and ending with unkind words for Freemasonry.

    Meanwhile Alain Soral’s site (which is quite chummy with Jean-Marie Le Pen) has an article on Putin’s recent and repeated denunciations of Lenin. Soral is a former card-carrying Marxist-Leninist like Putin, so he and a lot of his readers are probably following along quite closely as Putin talks about these things.

    Meanwhile, Victor Orban was in just in Moscow for very friendly talks with Putin. There is a very interesting convergence happening suddenly.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Cagey Beast

    I said Orban and Putin had "very friendly" talks this week but I think I was being presumptuous. Having just read this interview with Orban from last November makes me modify my claim and say they likely had a productive meeting that was strictly business: http://www.politico.eu/article/viktor-orban-putin-has-no-personality/

    I found that interview with Orban quite interesting, even though the headline is idiotic and dishonest.

  98. @ConcernedAmerican
    @Cagey Beast

    I would respectfully suggest that you ignore the advice "antipater_1" gave you. As the Bible says:

    "All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16).

    The smorgasbord approach to the Bible doesn't actually work and isn't recommended.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    I would respectfully suggest that you ignore the advice “antipater_1″ gave you. As the Bible says:

    “All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16).

    But that begs the question, since it didn’t, and couldn’t, define “scripture” to mean the 66 books included in the Bible.

    • Replies: @ConcernedAmerican
    @ben tillman


    But that begs the question, since it didn’t, and couldn’t, define “scripture” to mean the 66 books included in the Bible.
     
    I'm not really sure what you mean by this unless you are saying that there were books after 2 Timothy and so they can't be referred to as scripture by Paul since they didn't exist yet. If so, then the answer would be that God was and is clearly able to arrange what books would be ultimately included in the Bible and therefore would then be considered God-inspired scripture.

    It is also interesting to note that Peter wrote the following:

    "And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures." (2 Peter 3:15-16).

    Peter refers to Paul and the "wisdom given him" and also places Paul's letters on the level with "other scriptures" indicating they are also meant to be considered scripture.
  99. @Reg Cæsar
    @Matra


    It was always the case that the Vatican chartered an Alitalia plane out of Italy and returned on an airline, also chartered, from the last country visited.
     
    JP II flew TWA. So did Paul VI. Fulton Sheen dubbed them "Traveling With Angels".

    Replies: @Brutusale

    Microaggression Warning!

    Popes flying on the old TWA caused some local Irish-Catholic wags of my acquaintance to say that TWA stood for “Top Wop Aboard”.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Brutusale

    You must older than Moses because the pope hasn't been a wop in 40 years

    Replies: @Brutusale

  100. @Jonathan Mason
    I think all the Pope meant was that all human beings are God's children from a Christian point of view and that building walls is not a Christian way of going about things. I don't think he was intending to imply that Trump is a Hindu or a Sikh, more that his thinking is not primarily informed by Christian ideals.

    I have been seriously thinking of voting for Trump, but when he gets into these kind of spats, you have to wonder how good his judgment is. He is probably going to lose some Catholic votes over this.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Brutusale, @RadicalCenter, @BurplesonAFB, @Tracy

    I’m in Boston, a Catholic surrounded by Catholics, and NONE of them is backing the Pope’s statement.

    Trump’s instincts are far superior to those of Pope Frankie. The news cycle dictates that this is news right where Trump wants it, just before Catholic-hating evangelical Southerners go to the polls. By next week, it’s forgotten.

    As a Catholic, I want the Nazi back!

  101. @Reg Cæsar
    @Mr. Anon


    Of course one might well ask what business the Pope and his Church had owning so much land in England.
     
    They bought it? Over a thousand-year period. And the monks themselves were English.

    Anyway, if the Pope is encroaching on the King's domain, the answer isn't for the King to encroach on the Pope's.

    By the way, a rousing defense of all the sacraments and the primacy of the existing Church was published shortly before this time. Who wrote it?

    Why, Henry himself:

    http://keysofpeter.org/book/warning.htm
    http://keysofpeter.org/book/message.htm

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Ralph Raico

    “They bought it? Over a thousand-year period.”

    Did they? Really? I believe a lot of church land was granted to it by nobles and even kings.

    “Anyway, if the Pope is encroaching on the King’s domain, the answer isn’t for the King to encroach on the Pope’s.”

    Evidently, that was the answer for Henry VIII

    “By the way, a rousing defense of all the sacraments and the primacy of the existing Church was published shortly before this time. Who wrote it?

    Why, Henry himself:”

    Yes, it is well known what a stalwart defender of the Church Henry was,………. right up to the point that he wasn’t. You won’t find me defending that rotten old swine. His old man was a much better King (though not without faults himself).

  102. @Diversity Heretic
    @Svigor

    If only enough bishops agreed with you that this Pope has passed beyond error into heresy. Is there a procedure for removing a Pope for heresy? Would the election of an anti-Pope be possible?

    I guess I shouldn't care because I'm not Catholic; the symbolism would be great however.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    “I guess I shouldn’t care because I’m not Catholic”

    You may not be interested in the Catholic Church, but the Catholic Church is interested in you.

  103. I thoroughly disapprove of the Roman Catholic church but I usually refrain from being rude about whichever Pope is currently in office. But I’ll make an exception for this buffoon.

  104. @Cagey Beast
    @Diversity Heretic

    Yes, I had a look at some Front National friendly websites last night and they taking Trump's side over Pope Francis on this one. Lots of readers' comments starting with things like: "as a practicing Catholic I'm devastated ..." and ending with unkind words for Freemasonry.

    Meanwhile Alain Soral's site (which is quite chummy with Jean-Marie Le Pen) has an article on Putin's recent and repeated denunciations of Lenin. Soral is a former card-carrying Marxist-Leninist like Putin, so he and a lot of his readers are probably following along quite closely as Putin talks about these things.

    Meanwhile, Victor Orban was in just in Moscow for very friendly talks with Putin. There is a very interesting convergence happening suddenly.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    I said Orban and Putin had “very friendly” talks this week but I think I was being presumptuous. Having just read this interview with Orban from last November makes me modify my claim and say they likely had a productive meeting that was strictly business: http://www.politico.eu/article/viktor-orban-putin-has-no-personality/

    I found that interview with Orban quite interesting, even though the headline is idiotic and dishonest.

  105. @fnn
    @Lagertha


    I do love his stance on the well being of animals and children
     
    Well, then here is something the Argentinian Pope should be speaking about:
    http://www.wakingtimes.com/2016/02/18/clueless-argentinian-beachgoers-kill-rare-baby-dolphin-while-taking-selfies/

    Replies: @Lagertha

    Ugh! I retract my comment about innocent children! Maybe those cruel children need to “expect some Spanish Inquisition,” to straighten them out.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Lagertha


    Ugh! I retract my comment about innocent children! Maybe those cruel children need to “expect some Spanish Inquisition,” to straighten them out.
     
    Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

    Replies: @SFG

  106. @Cagey Beast
    This current pope has really strengthened my interest in Eastern Orthodoxy.

    Replies: @antipater_1, @iSteveFan, @gruff, @Diversity Heretic, @Percy Gryce, @SFG

    God bless Pope Francis–he’s curing us Catholics of any latent papolatry.

    If you want the Eastern Christian mystical experience, it’s available in the Catholic Church–among the Melkites and Ukrainians and other Greek-rite Catholics.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Percy Gryce

    I'm not Catholic though, I'm Protestant. For some reason people always think I'm Catholic. Oh well, that's just one more thing I have in common with William Shakespeare.

    Replies: @Percy Gryce

  107. @Bill P
    Francis just did a great deal of damage to the Catholic Church in the United States. This may mark the beginning of an Episcopalian-style demographic meltdown among white Catholics, and permanently establish Catholicism as a Mestizo faith here in the US.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Diversity Heretic, @Percy Gryce

    That’s a bit apocalyptic. Catholic ties and commitments run deeper than a few offhand remarks by an old pope.

  108. @Anonym
    This is possibly the most ringing endorsement anyone could make for Donald Trump. No one, of any country, appreciates foreign leaders telling their leaders what to do, or who they should elect.

    Of course, the Pope is primarily concerned because a wall (and looming repatriation) will slow down the Mexico->Vatican gravy train of funds, and the supply of new Catholics the White->Mexican wealth transfer policy of the US enables.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Is white a nationality or is Mexican a color?

    • Replies: @Anonym
    @AndrewR

    White is not a nationality, but it's whites who are effectively impoverished by the immivasion into the US by Mexican nationals. Do I really have to connect the dots for you? You've been reading this site long enough.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  109. @Brutusale
    @Reg Cæsar

    Microaggression Warning!

    Popes flying on the old TWA caused some local Irish-Catholic wags of my acquaintance to say that TWA stood for "Top Wop Aboard".

    Replies: @AndrewR

    You must older than Moses because the pope hasn’t been a wop in 40 years

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @AndrewR

    Moses = 40 years? And I thought Bishop Ussher was innumerate!

    Comments were overheard when Giovanni Montini was pope.

  110. @Lagertha
    @fnn

    Ugh! I retract my comment about innocent children! Maybe those cruel children need to "expect some Spanish Inquisition," to straighten them out.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    Ugh! I retract my comment about innocent children! Maybe those cruel children need to “expect some Spanish Inquisition,” to straighten them out.

    Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

    • Replies: @SFG
    @ben tillman

    I'm just surprised there was only one Monty Python fan chiming in.

    We have one main weapon...

  111. @Anonymous
    Who knows this Pope's motivation.

    Perhaps the Vatican is still smarting from John Cornwell's devastating volume, curtly entitled 'Hitler's Pope', which in detail records Pope Pius's utter refusal even to call out, let alone even threaten to excommunicate the German people - who are around 40% catholic - over the truthful and much publicized accounts of the sub-bestial atrocities being perpetrated in their name.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @The Man From K Street, @Reg Cæsar, @Tracy

    Aren’t you overdoing it a bit here? You should consult your guidebook again on how to write these comments.

  112. @Reg Cæsar
    @Mr. Anon


    Of course one might well ask what business the Pope and his Church had owning so much land in England.
     
    They bought it? Over a thousand-year period. And the monks themselves were English.

    Anyway, if the Pope is encroaching on the King's domain, the answer isn't for the King to encroach on the Pope's.

    By the way, a rousing defense of all the sacraments and the primacy of the existing Church was published shortly before this time. Who wrote it?

    Why, Henry himself:

    http://keysofpeter.org/book/warning.htm
    http://keysofpeter.org/book/message.htm

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Ralph Raico

    Reg Caesar’s exactly right. And as a reward for Henry’s advocacy, the Pope bestowed on him the title, “Defender of the Faith,” which English monarchs carry to this day.

  113. @Anonymous
    This is a weak post because Trump isn't a Christian. And his declarations of Christian faith make him look dishonest and lacking in integrity. It's a bad strategy for him to make such a big deal of being pious.

    Replies: @rod1963, @Perplexed, @Anonymous, @dr kill

    His fam was in church with mine Christmas Eve, and I have the photos to prove it. If that doesn’t make him Christian, I don’t know what will. It might be that whole CoE thing with the Holy Mackerel Snapper in Chief.

  114. @SDMatt
    "In 846 seventy vessels attacked Ostia and Porto, when the Musulmans advanced, ravaging the country, to the very walls of Rome, profaning the church of San Pietro. The garrison of Gregoriopolis was unable to check them. They were finally repulsed by Guido di Spoleto. Lothair’s expedition in the following year did not succeed in recovering Bari. In 849, at the instigation of the Pope, Amalfi, Gaeta and Naples formed a league against the Saracens, and assembled a fleet at Ostia; the Pope, Leo IV, going thither to bless it. It won a great naval victory over the Saracens. At the same time, the Pope surrounded the Vatican city with a wall, the enclosed area being known as the Civitas Leonina (848–852)."

    - Henri Pirenne, Mohammed and Charlemagne

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @Steve Sailer

    Thanks, I’ll use this.

    Steve

  115. @AndrewR
    @Anonym

    Is white a nationality or is Mexican a color?

    Replies: @Anonym

    White is not a nationality, but it’s whites who are effectively impoverished by the immivasion into the US by Mexican nationals. Do I really have to connect the dots for you? You’ve been reading this site long enough.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Anonym

    Why not just say Americans and Mexicans? It's not just whites in the US who are hurt by mass immigration. And whites in Mexico are doing great as a result of the northward migration of Mexico's brown underclass.

    Replies: @Anonym

  116. @Percy Gryce
    @Cagey Beast

    God bless Pope Francis--he's curing us Catholics of any latent papolatry.

    If you want the Eastern Christian mystical experience, it's available in the Catholic Church--among the Melkites and Ukrainians and other Greek-rite Catholics.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    I’m not Catholic though, I’m Protestant. For some reason people always think I’m Catholic. Oh well, that’s just one more thing I have in common with William Shakespeare.

    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    @Cagey Beast

    I understood that. I was just making the point that, if you're interested in Eastern Christian ritual, theology, or mysticism, those things are practiced in the Catholic Church as well as in the Eastern Orthodox churches.

  117. @Anonym
    @AndrewR

    White is not a nationality, but it's whites who are effectively impoverished by the immivasion into the US by Mexican nationals. Do I really have to connect the dots for you? You've been reading this site long enough.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Why not just say Americans and Mexicans? It’s not just whites in the US who are hurt by mass immigration. And whites in Mexico are doing great as a result of the northward migration of Mexico’s brown underclass.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    @AndrewR

    These days all you need to be considered an "American" is a photo of whoever it is beaming next to the flag, and you're golden. I am not going to pretend to care one way or another about the success or failure of these whoever-Americans.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  118. @Anon
    Funny how NYT loves Christianity only when it is anti-white.

    Btw, the natives of the Americas were not Christians. In becoming Christian, weren't they conquered and enslaved by another people?

    This Pope is Latin American. So, what was the history of Christianity in the New World?

    A forced bridge that led to the demise of the natives.

    That's what happens when you don't have effective walls.

    Replies: @Lagertha, @RaceRealist88, @SFG

    The Pope is Italian. Just because his family emigrated to Argentina doesnt change his ethnicity/race.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @RaceRealist88

    Yeah you're right ... But I'm Italian, and "we don't claim him", as the old saying goes ;)

    Replies: @Tracy

  119. @antipater_1
    @Cagey Beast

    Cagey Beast - there is no need for Eastern Orthodoxy. There are only 3 books in the Bible that matter. Matthew, Mark and Luke. Study them, learn them, practice them. Be like Jesus - the Christ! Everything else in the New Testament is just "Paulism" and is fit only for the bovine masses.
    Christianity is not for the masses. It is for a Vanguard Elite. That is the entire point of Protestantism. Every man must do his own thinking. Every man must find his own way to God.

    Replies: @ConcernedAmerican, @BB753

    That’s the problem with Protestantism.

    Every man looking for God and finding Him in themselves, after poring over the Bible. Then believing they’re small gods too in a way. Which leads to liberalism and New Age pantheism: there is no God, WE are God. The ultimate hubris.

    While atheism is the proposition that there’s no need for God because we’re godly just by following holy political correctness and higher inclusiveness of vibrancy and sexual otherness and saintly liberalism or whatever tripe liberals happen to believe.
    Only Jesus and Saints can face temptation and conquer Satan. Every man is no saint.
    Protestantism inevitably leads to liberalism and sin.

    • Replies: @ConcernedAmerican
    @BB753


    Every man looking for God and finding Him in themselves, after poring over the Bible. Then believing they’re small gods too in a way. Which leads to liberalism and New Age pantheism: there is no God, WE are God. The ultimate hubris.
     
    You are correct that human beings thinking they are God is the ultimate hubris. However, any person "poring over the Bible" who then comes away with the idea that he or she can be a "god" is reading some other book, not the Bible. Here are just three Bible verses regarding the matter:

    "I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I gird you, though you do not know me, that men may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other." (Isaiah 45:5-6).

    "Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me." (Isaiah 45:21).

    "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other." (Isaiah 45:22).
  120. @AndrewR
    @Anonym

    Why not just say Americans and Mexicans? It's not just whites in the US who are hurt by mass immigration. And whites in Mexico are doing great as a result of the northward migration of Mexico's brown underclass.

    Replies: @Anonym

    These days all you need to be considered an “American” is a photo of whoever it is beaming next to the flag, and you’re golden. I am not going to pretend to care one way or another about the success or failure of these whoever-Americans.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Anonym

    Nice strawman

  121. @Jonathan Mason
    I think all the Pope meant was that all human beings are God's children from a Christian point of view and that building walls is not a Christian way of going about things. I don't think he was intending to imply that Trump is a Hindu or a Sikh, more that his thinking is not primarily informed by Christian ideals.

    I have been seriously thinking of voting for Trump, but when he gets into these kind of spats, you have to wonder how good his judgment is. He is probably going to lose some Catholic votes over this.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Brutusale, @RadicalCenter, @BurplesonAFB, @Tracy

    Lifelong Catholic and soon-to-be ex-Catholic here.

    Jorge Bergoglio’s presumptuous, rude, and ignorant comments are not hurting trump with me at all. I was already embarrassed and disgusted by this Pope. In any event, even the best pope should mind his business when it comes to our elections.

    Moreover, most of the shortly-upcoming primary States are in the Deep South and the Pope’s meddling and obnoxious comment will tend to HELP Trump with republican and independent voters.

    There is, of course, plenty of religious and racial diversity and change even way south, including lots of transplanted Catholics from the northeast, midatlantic, Great Lakes, and Midwest and their descendants, many of them catholic. Hey, I’ve got Italian-American catholic relatives who moved to Georgia nigh on thirty years ago, for example. But the southern states have a much lower percentage of white Catholics than the U.S. Average, with a non-negligible anti-catholic sentiment. In South Carolina, Alabama, to some extent all southern states except Louisiana, the population is a lower percentage white Catholic than the northern states that come afterwards. Trump must be happy dumb old Jorge spouted off in time for the big southern primaries.

    Go Donald Go

    • Replies: @neon2
    @RadicalCenter

    Be patient: Bergoglio won't be around much longer. The word from Rome is that the opposition is marshalled to elect the runner-up in 2013, Cardinal Scola, as soon as God gives them the chance (and don't doubt that myriad prayers are making their way to His ears every day begging that that chance come very very soon).
    Scola would be a continuation of Benedict, if without the delicacy, which is in fact the last thing we need right now. My worry is that he would not be firm enough; no matter, though, if he lets others take the necessary revenge.
    Upon whom? Upon the wretched schemers like cardinals Kasper, Marx, Murphy-O'Connor, Maradiaga, and Daneels. And then upon the even more wretched papolaters, whose faith is in a mere man and who will swallow anything that man says, however flagrantly in contradiction to Catholic tradition it might be.
    On the other hand ... if God does not here our prayers, and if Bergoglio is permitted to create two or three further batches of cravenly Modernist cardinals, then, indeed, Orthodoxy may be the only option left. Hail Putin, hail the Third Rome.

    , @Tracy
    @RadicalCenter

    RadicalCenter, don't let an obnoxious Pope run you out of Christ's Church. He's talking out of his butt, not preaching dogma or doctrine. Ignore him if you can. And stay with the Sacraments.

  122. @RaceRealist88
    @Anon

    The Pope is Italian. Just because his family emigrated to Argentina doesnt change his ethnicity/race.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    Yeah you’re right … But I’m Italian, and “we don’t claim him”, as the old saying goes 😉

    • Replies: @Tracy
    @RadicalCenter


    Yeah you’re right … But I’m Italian, and “we don’t claim him”, as the old saying goes
     
    Yeah. I'm Italian, too, and he's definitely no "friend of ours." :P
  123. @Jonathan Mason
    I think all the Pope meant was that all human beings are God's children from a Christian point of view and that building walls is not a Christian way of going about things. I don't think he was intending to imply that Trump is a Hindu or a Sikh, more that his thinking is not primarily informed by Christian ideals.

    I have been seriously thinking of voting for Trump, but when he gets into these kind of spats, you have to wonder how good his judgment is. He is probably going to lose some Catholic votes over this.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Brutusale, @RadicalCenter, @BurplesonAFB, @Tracy

  124. @Cagey Beast
    @Percy Gryce

    I'm not Catholic though, I'm Protestant. For some reason people always think I'm Catholic. Oh well, that's just one more thing I have in common with William Shakespeare.

    Replies: @Percy Gryce

    I understood that. I was just making the point that, if you’re interested in Eastern Christian ritual, theology, or mysticism, those things are practiced in the Catholic Church as well as in the Eastern Orthodox churches.

  125. @BB753
    @antipater_1

    That's the problem with Protestantism.

    Every man looking for God and finding Him in themselves, after poring over the Bible. Then believing they're small gods too in a way. Which leads to liberalism and New Age pantheism: there is no God, WE are God. The ultimate hubris.

    While atheism is the proposition that there's no need for God because we're godly just by following holy political correctness and higher inclusiveness of vibrancy and sexual otherness and saintly liberalism or whatever tripe liberals happen to believe.
    Only Jesus and Saints can face temptation and conquer Satan. Every man is no saint.
    Protestantism inevitably leads to liberalism and sin.

    Replies: @ConcernedAmerican

    Every man looking for God and finding Him in themselves, after poring over the Bible. Then believing they’re small gods too in a way. Which leads to liberalism and New Age pantheism: there is no God, WE are God. The ultimate hubris.

    You are correct that human beings thinking they are God is the ultimate hubris. However, any person “poring over the Bible” who then comes away with the idea that he or she can be a “god” is reading some other book, not the Bible. Here are just three Bible verses regarding the matter:

    “I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I gird you, though you do not know me, that men may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.” (Isaiah 45:5-6).

    “Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.” (Isaiah 45:21).

    “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.” (Isaiah 45:22).

  126. @ben tillman
    @ConcernedAmerican


    I would respectfully suggest that you ignore the advice “antipater_1″ gave you. As the Bible says:

    “All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16).
     
    But that begs the question, since it didn't, and couldn't, define "scripture" to mean the 66 books included in the Bible.

    Replies: @ConcernedAmerican

    But that begs the question, since it didn’t, and couldn’t, define “scripture” to mean the 66 books included in the Bible.

    I’m not really sure what you mean by this unless you are saying that there were books after 2 Timothy and so they can’t be referred to as scripture by Paul since they didn’t exist yet. If so, then the answer would be that God was and is clearly able to arrange what books would be ultimately included in the Bible and therefore would then be considered God-inspired scripture.

    It is also interesting to note that Peter wrote the following:

    “And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.” (2 Peter 3:15-16).

    Peter refers to Paul and the “wisdom given him” and also places Paul’s letters on the level with “other scriptures” indicating they are also meant to be considered scripture.

  127. @rod1963
    @epebble

    Actually it's the Pope's religion that is in question. He certainly is no Catholic or Christian for that matter but a Marxist Jesuit practicing Liberation Theology to it's fullest. The fact that people tip toe around that is rather worrisome.

    Then again a lot of Protestant denominations are larded up with Marxists and New Agers like Shelby Spong as ministers.

    This so-called Pope has so far equated the Bible with the Koran, supports AGW, open borders, Muslim migration to the West, refuses to condemn Islam for the mass murder of Christians in the ME, refuses to condemn ISIS. Instead he attacks the West and capitalism.

    He's not Joel Osteen stupid, he knows what he's doing.

    It was clear from day one when the Left went nuts over him, that something was horribly wrong. The Left normally hates Christians and Catholics the same Jihadists hate infidels. Yet they went gaga over him.

    In short he is not a defender of the faith nor of the West but it's enemy.

    Replies: @BB753

    Indeed, Bergoglio is just a Marxist in papal robes. A fraud ( like so many Argentinians). Well, you could also say all the popes after Pius XII, from John XXIII and Council Vatican II on, have been frauds.

  128. @Anon
    Funny how NYT loves Christianity only when it is anti-white.

    Btw, the natives of the Americas were not Christians. In becoming Christian, weren't they conquered and enslaved by another people?

    This Pope is Latin American. So, what was the history of Christianity in the New World?

    A forced bridge that led to the demise of the natives.

    That's what happens when you don't have effective walls.

    Replies: @Lagertha, @RaceRealist88, @SFG

    Actually, a lot more natives survived down there than up here.

  129. @ben tillman
    @Lagertha


    Ugh! I retract my comment about innocent children! Maybe those cruel children need to “expect some Spanish Inquisition,” to straighten them out.
     
    Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

    Replies: @SFG

    I’m just surprised there was only one Monty Python fan chiming in.

    We have one main weapon…

  130. @Anonymous
    Who knows this Pope's motivation.

    Perhaps the Vatican is still smarting from John Cornwell's devastating volume, curtly entitled 'Hitler's Pope', which in detail records Pope Pius's utter refusal even to call out, let alone even threaten to excommunicate the German people - who are around 40% catholic - over the truthful and much publicized accounts of the sub-bestial atrocities being perpetrated in their name.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @The Man From K Street, @Reg Cæsar, @Tracy

    You must be new here. People here *like* the Nazis.

    Seriously, excommunicate the entire German populace? Has the church ever excommunicated an entire country? Usually it was the king or some baron, if I remember…

  131. @Cagey Beast
    This current pope has really strengthened my interest in Eastern Orthodoxy.

    Replies: @antipater_1, @iSteveFan, @gruff, @Diversity Heretic, @Percy Gryce, @SFG

    It’s the go-to denomination for conservative Catholics disgusted with one aspect or another–Rod Dreher went Orthodox after the child abuse scandal, if I remember right.

    You can see why–it’s got just as much age and tradition, being the other half of the Great Schism.

  132. @Anonym
    @AndrewR

    These days all you need to be considered an "American" is a photo of whoever it is beaming next to the flag, and you're golden. I am not going to pretend to care one way or another about the success or failure of these whoever-Americans.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Nice strawman

  133. @Eustace Tilley (not)
    It almost seems that the gods themselves are working for Trump. When he mentioned deporting illegals, we soon had the multiply-deported illegal Mexican shoot the American girl in San Francisco. When he mentioned "temporarily" stopping Muslim immigration, we then had San Bernadino.

    Now the Pope, a foreign head of state, is interfering in an American election and questioning Trump's Christianity shortly before Trump faces the judgement of the Bible-toting, God-fearing, not-very-Catholic Republican voters of South Carolina.

    Thank you, Jesus!

    Replies: @boogerbently, @Hibernian

    I think there are more Catholics in SC than there used to be. It’s not Mississippi. Jim Geragty of NRO’s Dad, an NYC CPA, is there, presiding over a local Republican club. My uncle is just over the border in NC, around Asheville NC and Greenville/Spartanburg SC. Transplants tend to be near the beach at one end of the state or the mountains at the other end.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @Hibernian

    Yes, there are now a whopping seven percent Catholics in South Carolina as opposed to the two percent it used to be. Bergoglio attacking trump definitely didn't hurt trump in sc.

    And most of my catholic relatives, all regular churchgoers, are supporting trump and didn't trust Bergoglio even before he decided to opine on OUR election.

    Watch for trump to dominate New York and New Jersey primaries even if it's a two-man race by then, including catholic voters.

    In other words, this pope doesn't have much credibility or authority among churchgoing catholic voters, and a fortified certainly doesn't have much sway among NON-catholics who are voting in the republican primaries.

  134. @Anonymous
    Who knows this Pope's motivation.

    Perhaps the Vatican is still smarting from John Cornwell's devastating volume, curtly entitled 'Hitler's Pope', which in detail records Pope Pius's utter refusal even to call out, let alone even threaten to excommunicate the German people - who are around 40% catholic - over the truthful and much publicized accounts of the sub-bestial atrocities being perpetrated in their name.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @The Man From K Street, @Reg Cæsar, @Tracy

    Perhaps the Vatican is still smarting from John Cornwell’s devastating volume, curtly entitled ‘Hitler’s Pope’

    You do know that Cornwall himself has since mostly disavowed his own book, in light of further research and disclosures?

  135. @Mr. Anon
    @wiseguy

    "With the Dissolution of the Monasteries, among other things, it would appear that it was Henry VIII who picked a fight with the pope, and not the other way around."

    Of course one might well ask what business the Pope and his Church had owning so much land in England.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Hibernian

    The land was used to aid the poor. When it was sold, the proceeds, originally pledged to be used by the King to aid the poor, were instead used to finance the King’s wars. Anne Boleyn was beheaded at least in part because she protested this policy. Also, it cannot be assumed that Church land is personally owned by the Pope.

  136. @Anonymous
    Who knows this Pope's motivation.

    Perhaps the Vatican is still smarting from John Cornwell's devastating volume, curtly entitled 'Hitler's Pope', which in detail records Pope Pius's utter refusal even to call out, let alone even threaten to excommunicate the German people - who are around 40% catholic - over the truthful and much publicized accounts of the sub-bestial atrocities being perpetrated in their name.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @The Man From K Street, @Reg Cæsar, @Tracy

    Bah. Check out Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn’s maps comparing Catholic density with National Socialist support:

    Progressive Protestants have more to answer for.

    Pope Pius’s utter refusal even to call out, let alone even threaten to excommunicate…

    Popes don’t excommunicate any more than priests marry couples. It both cases, it’s something one does to oneself. The Church merely acknowledges it de facto.

  137. @AndrewR
    @Brutusale

    You must older than Moses because the pope hasn't been a wop in 40 years

    Replies: @Brutusale

    Moses = 40 years? And I thought Bishop Ussher was innumerate!

    Comments were overheard when Giovanni Montini was pope.

  138. @RadicalCenter
    @Jonathan Mason

    Lifelong Catholic and soon-to-be ex-Catholic here.

    Jorge Bergoglio's presumptuous, rude, and ignorant comments are not hurting trump with me at all. I was already embarrassed and disgusted by this Pope. In any event, even the best pope should mind his business when it comes to our elections.

    Moreover, most of the shortly-upcoming primary States are in the Deep South and the Pope's meddling and obnoxious comment will tend to HELP Trump with republican and independent voters.

    There is, of course, plenty of religious and racial diversity and change even way south, including lots of transplanted Catholics from the northeast, midatlantic, Great Lakes, and Midwest and their descendants, many of them catholic. Hey, I've got Italian-American catholic relatives who moved to Georgia nigh on thirty years ago, for example. But the southern states have a much lower percentage of white Catholics than the U.S. Average, with a non-negligible anti-catholic sentiment. In South Carolina, Alabama, to some extent all southern states except Louisiana, the population is a lower percentage white Catholic than the northern states that come afterwards. Trump must be happy dumb old Jorge spouted off in time for the big southern primaries.

    Go Donald Go

    Replies: @neon2, @Tracy

    Be patient: Bergoglio won’t be around much longer. The word from Rome is that the opposition is marshalled to elect the runner-up in 2013, Cardinal Scola, as soon as God gives them the chance (and don’t doubt that myriad prayers are making their way to His ears every day begging that that chance come very very soon).
    Scola would be a continuation of Benedict, if without the delicacy, which is in fact the last thing we need right now. My worry is that he would not be firm enough; no matter, though, if he lets others take the necessary revenge.
    Upon whom? Upon the wretched schemers like cardinals Kasper, Marx, Murphy-O’Connor, Maradiaga, and Daneels. And then upon the even more wretched papolaters, whose faith is in a mere man and who will swallow anything that man says, however flagrantly in contradiction to Catholic tradition it might be.
    On the other hand … if God does not here our prayers, and if Bergoglio is permitted to create two or three further batches of cravenly Modernist cardinals, then, indeed, Orthodoxy may be the only option left. Hail Putin, hail the Third Rome.

    • Agree: BB753
  139. @anony-mouse
    Wasn't Henry VIII's dissolution of the monastaries a form of eminent domain taking?

    And when he fired his counselors they stayed fired.

    And isn't his current wife getting a little old? (she's older than Ted Cruz!) Time for #4
    Anyhow if you're going to have a purely universalist religion you're going to have a theology that backs what the Pope said.

    Replies: @5371, @Tracy

    Anyhow if you’re going to have a purely universalist religion you’re going to have a theology that backs what the Pope said.

    Not so at all. Traditional Catholic teaching — not what this present Pope is spewing (non-dogmatically, of course, and involving nothing a Catholic must believe) — is all about subsidiarity when it comes to the social stuff. Being of one faith makes men brothers in Christ, but it doesn’t necessarily make them politically compatible, and no Church teaching says otherwise.

    The Catholic Encyclopedia, in its entry “Migration,” says, “The justification of public interference [with migration] is to be found in the right of a nation to control the variations of its own population. The highest necessity is that arising from war: on this ground nations almost universally regulate very closely the movements of population, forbidding emigration, that they may not lose their soldiers, and guarding immigration as a military precaution. Restrictive measures are also justified on grounds of health and morals, and on the general ground that a national family has a right to say who shall join it.”

  140. @Cagey Beast
    @ gruff
    @iSteveFan
    @antipater_1

    Thanks very much. I've only started reading up on Orthodoxy recently but I've found the concepts of theosis and sin as hamartia, or "missing the mark" to be very interesting.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @ConcernedAmerican, @Tracy

    Thanks very much. I’ve only started reading up on Orthodoxy recently but I’ve found the concepts of theosis and sin as hamartia, or “missing the mark” to be very interesting.

    Those concepts are Catholic as well. That aside, I understand your temptations towards Orthodoxy. I’m trad Catholic, which is a hard thing to be with a Pope like the one we’ve got. But still, Francis is talking off the cuff with all his ramblings. He says nothing we have to believe. It’s chatter, not dogma. So I try to ignore it and carry on. Wish the media would ignore it all, too. Sigh.

  141. @Jonathan Mason
    I think all the Pope meant was that all human beings are God's children from a Christian point of view and that building walls is not a Christian way of going about things. I don't think he was intending to imply that Trump is a Hindu or a Sikh, more that his thinking is not primarily informed by Christian ideals.

    I have been seriously thinking of voting for Trump, but when he gets into these kind of spats, you have to wonder how good his judgment is. He is probably going to lose some Catholic votes over this.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Brutusale, @RadicalCenter, @BurplesonAFB, @Tracy

    I have been seriously thinking of voting for Trump, but when he gets into these kind of spats, you have to wonder how good his judgment is. He is probably going to lose some Catholic votes over this.

    Not mine. And the Pope started it, with a lot of help from the media’s playing around with his words. And then Trump finished it by saying what he said in this video:https://youtu.be/bqrC8SAaZz0 I thought he handled it stupendously.

  142. @RadicalCenter
    @Jonathan Mason

    Lifelong Catholic and soon-to-be ex-Catholic here.

    Jorge Bergoglio's presumptuous, rude, and ignorant comments are not hurting trump with me at all. I was already embarrassed and disgusted by this Pope. In any event, even the best pope should mind his business when it comes to our elections.

    Moreover, most of the shortly-upcoming primary States are in the Deep South and the Pope's meddling and obnoxious comment will tend to HELP Trump with republican and independent voters.

    There is, of course, plenty of religious and racial diversity and change even way south, including lots of transplanted Catholics from the northeast, midatlantic, Great Lakes, and Midwest and their descendants, many of them catholic. Hey, I've got Italian-American catholic relatives who moved to Georgia nigh on thirty years ago, for example. But the southern states have a much lower percentage of white Catholics than the U.S. Average, with a non-negligible anti-catholic sentiment. In South Carolina, Alabama, to some extent all southern states except Louisiana, the population is a lower percentage white Catholic than the northern states that come afterwards. Trump must be happy dumb old Jorge spouted off in time for the big southern primaries.

    Go Donald Go

    Replies: @neon2, @Tracy

    RadicalCenter, don’t let an obnoxious Pope run you out of Christ’s Church. He’s talking out of his butt, not preaching dogma or doctrine. Ignore him if you can. And stay with the Sacraments.

  143. @Anonymous
    Who knows this Pope's motivation.

    Perhaps the Vatican is still smarting from John Cornwell's devastating volume, curtly entitled 'Hitler's Pope', which in detail records Pope Pius's utter refusal even to call out, let alone even threaten to excommunicate the German people - who are around 40% catholic - over the truthful and much publicized accounts of the sub-bestial atrocities being perpetrated in their name.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @The Man From K Street, @Reg Cæsar, @Tracy

    Perhaps the Vatican is still smarting from John Cornwell’s devastating volume, curtly entitled ‘Hitler’s Pope’, which in detail records Pope Pius’s utter refusal even to call out, let alone even threaten to excommunicate the German people – who are around 40% catholic – over the truthful and much publicized accounts of the sub-bestial atrocities being perpetrated in their name.

    Not sure if you’re being serious or silly, but in case it’s the former, that book has been thoroughly discredited. A few links for you: Not Hitler’s Pope and Hitler’s Pope?. Further, Popes don’t excommunicate huge groups like that; they excommunicate individuals. But even if they were able to excommunicate “the German people,” it was the Protestant areas that voted for Hitler. See the maps on the top of this page: maps showing that Catholics didn’t vote for Hitler. In case you’re not aware, Catholic priests and religious were rounded up and thrown into camps along with Jews.

  144. @RadicalCenter
    @RaceRealist88

    Yeah you're right ... But I'm Italian, and "we don't claim him", as the old saying goes ;)

    Replies: @Tracy

    Yeah you’re right … But I’m Italian, and “we don’t claim him”, as the old saying goes

    Yeah. I’m Italian, too, and he’s definitely no “friend of ours.” 😛

  145. @Hibernian
    @Eustace Tilley (not)

    I think there are more Catholics in SC than there used to be. It's not Mississippi. Jim Geragty of NRO's Dad, an NYC CPA, is there, presiding over a local Republican club. My uncle is just over the border in NC, around Asheville NC and Greenville/Spartanburg SC. Transplants tend to be near the beach at one end of the state or the mountains at the other end.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    Yes, there are now a whopping seven percent Catholics in South Carolina as opposed to the two percent it used to be. Bergoglio attacking trump definitely didn’t hurt trump in sc.

    And most of my catholic relatives, all regular churchgoers, are supporting trump and didn’t trust Bergoglio even before he decided to opine on OUR election.

    Watch for trump to dominate New York and New Jersey primaries even if it’s a two-man race by then, including catholic voters.

    In other words, this pope doesn’t have much credibility or authority among churchgoing catholic voters, and a fortified certainly doesn’t have much sway among NON-catholics who are voting in the republican primaries.

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