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Maybe national leaders should wear masks?

 
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  1. Well, if the estimates—including those of Boris Johnson—are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn’t he likely to get infected? He’s probably too proud to start wearing a mask against “Just the Flu!!”

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn’t he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don’t Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America’s Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn’t this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    • Agree: Houston 1992
    • Disagree: RichardTaylor
    • Replies: @BenKenobi

    the last years of the USSR
     
    Collapse of a sclerotic, decadent and corrupt old order, followed by a brief period of decline, eventually culminating in a nationalist strongman?

    LET'S DO IT.
    , @Antiwar7
    At that point, they may deploy their hidden cure, if they have one. Unless the deep state withholds it from Trump.
    , @Daniel Chieh

    I wonder if the endgame of America’s Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

     

    He will recover in time to face Biden's vice president for the final showdown:

    Hillary Clinton.
    , @anonguy
    My view starting last fall was this election cycle would be the Boomerdammerung and the election itself would be a Boomer Bumfight.

    About 30 years after they took over from Greatest Generation after end of Cold War.

    We do have late stage gerontocracy.

    The fact that the virus, at the moment, and one cannot overemphasize this, is more lethal to Boomers in its initial acute infection stage (no definitive word on reinfection, organ damage, etc etc, and honestly it isn't looking good), seems part of the pattern.

    Epidemics, like famines, are always man made events, as we create the condition for those types of events to occur.

    Coronavirus exploits globalist infection routes. One could make this mystic, but rather it is axiomatic that a pandemic in globalist time would exploit those pathways.

    Interestingly, the more globalist a place, the greater inability to control initial spread, it sorta seems like.

    There are outliers like Iran, but they have their own severe reality distortion zone.

    Oh, Persians (Iranians), like Italians, had a very high mortality rate during Spanish Flu both in Persia and in communities abroad.

    So did East European Jews.

    Seems like Levantine/Greater Syrian people did poorly as well.

    There is some interesting demographic data from Spanish Flu era.

    The first confirmed coronavirus death in Latin America, from Rio Grande to Tierra Del Fuego, was an Argentinian dude of apparently Italian ethnicity, 50s, contracted it abroad.

    Then there was that unfortunate Italian American family in NJ/NY area that, at last count, had lost 4 members in rapid succession.

    , @Inquiring Mind
    Mr. Unz, are you trolling your own fine Web site?

    My unexpert guess is that the thing is highly contagious, most of have it as silent carriers, fortunately the people getting critically ill from it are a very small fraction, the progress of the epidemic is baked into the cake, the contact tracing thing only works with Ebola where there aren't silent carriers, there is really nothing we can do or should have done, and we will have to face up to what unfolds?
    , @anonymous

    Doesn’t this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?
     
    No.

    No, it doesn't.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJcd1NFw5JY
    , @Dieter Kief
    This would then be the ultimate moment of the American Pravda.

    (Son this ain't a dream no more, it's the real thing, B. Dylan - Senor - Tales of Yankee Power)
    , @Michael S
    That's the estimate with no suppression.

    Which those same people then use as tortured logic to insist on elimination of suppressive measures. Because "if almost everyone's going to get it anyway, why bother trying?"

    If we keep social distancing for a while longer and crush the known cases with chloro + zithro, we could cut off the spread at a fraction of a percent, like China did.
    , @TelfoedJohn

    Doesn’t this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?
     
    I was thinking the same thing, but then it occurred to me that Trump is more of a Khrushchev - clownish populist - than a Brezhnev/Andropov etc. Maybe the US has to go through a senile Biden phase to complete the Soviet (or Roman Empire?) analogy.

    In any case, virtually nobody thought the Soviet Union would end before it suddenly collapsed. And that collapse was subtly linked to a natural disaster in Armenia, when the Soviets discovered they couldn’t handle it themselves and required outside help. So who knows what regime changes the pandemic will bring. I’ve heard there are whispers of a military takeover in Italy.

    (As an aside, the greatest recent historical collapse in a nation’s history must surely be the fall of the Manchu-founded Qing dynasty. After about 300 years of rule, it crumbled in the early 20th Century. 100 years later, the Manchu language has only 20 native speakers left. Not 20 million or 20 thousand. Just 20.)
    , @A123

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn’t he in a pretty high risk group?
     
    Trump is reasonably healthy despite his age. And given that he talked about chloroquine, he would be taking it. If an inexpensive medicine works for U.S. Citizens, Trump will bypass the 1% Elites of BigPharma to get it to the people.
    ____

    What scares the Globalist Dems?

    The risk to the most physically vulnerable, activist politician in Washington -- Ruth Bader Ginsburg. How many times has Ginsburg been hospitalized recently? At least twice last year.

    PEACE 😷
    , @JimB
    Perhaps Ron should set up a covid-19 prediction market.
    , @ThreeCranes
    Great comment.
    , @Prosa123
    No one is allowed anywhere close to Trump unless they have had a very recent negative test.
    , @Jake
    "I wonder if the endgame of America’s Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn’t this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?"

    That would be most convenient for the Revolutionaries, the Leftists who see Hillary Clinton as too kind and forgiving and moderate.

    The naive assume that a nationalist strong man would rise from the chaos, but it is more likely in this climate that a Trotsky would arise. The far left - not old fashioned liberals possessed of some decency - control academia, journalism, tv, and Hollywood. They have considerable power in all areas of the Federal bureaucracy; they clearly have major clout in the FBI, and they have made huge inroads into the CIA and all branches of the military. They have ties to billionaire liberals and leftists across the globe.

    And they are crazed with a blood lust that has been growing since they realized that Barack Obama was just another average man who had been elevated because of non-white race and therefore could not produce the leftist paradise.
    , @Wei
    It is likely that Trump and Pence have both received experimental Fort Detrick vaccines, probably in January. I would be surprised if POTUS does not preemptively receive vaccines for everything the Army can think of. It would only take a nation-state a few days with a handful of technicians and <50k reagent costs to culture a large enough dose for a meaningful inoculation in Vero cells. And of course the Army has access to volunteer test subjects.
    , @Neoconned
    Politburo indeed Ron....

    Keen observations as many are questioning just how stable our increasingly debt laden federal govt truly is....
  2. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    the last years of the USSR

    Collapse of a sclerotic, decadent and corrupt old order, followed by a brief period of decline, eventually culminating in a nationalist strongman?

    LET’S DO IT.

    • LOL: Dumbo
    • Replies: @SFG
    Ah, but how do you know you'll get a nationalist strongman, rather than a communist one?
    , @RichardTaylor

    Collapse of a sclerotic, decadent and corrupt old order, followed by a brief period of decline, eventually culminating in a nationalist strongman?

    LET’S DO IT.
     
    The nationalist strongman might be a "civic nationalist" who is willing to sacrifice the well being of White people in order to make his dictatorship work.

    Fascists aren't that good on race. All you need to be a good fascist is a stiff right arm. It gets your testosterone off but plays into the hands of anti-White civic nationalists.
    , @Anonymous
    The US is likely to split into separate nations. Texas is an obvious candidate for the core of one such natin. The Northeast is another. The foreigners imported to the US to keep up the Democratic (urban) voting blocks will be important for some time, and will attempt to set up their own city based / ethnic states. How successful they will be is questionable -- they generally can't stand each other and in some cases have engaged in territorial warfare, and are incapable of running an autarkic industrial state.

    At best the US ends up with somebody like Putin who will make a new US out of available pieces. The old US cannot be recovered -- what would it take for Texas to forget that the US Federal Government tried to make it Mexican? Or what would it take for Hispanic California to join a union that isn't run by Mexicans? Or the Deep South to forget the recent second try at Reconstruction? Remember that halting a devolution of the USSR into civil warfare was not inevitable In fact, considering Ukraine's present status, a devolution of sorts is still underway 30 years after the breakup.

    After a breakup, geopolitics within CONUS would start to manifest, and we could expect conflicts between the various successor states. Most obvious would be attempts by the Middle West to control the Mississippi River and regain control of its shipping hubs. Southern California, Mexico, and Texas would contend for water, The Northwest would continue its endless attempt to sell in the China market, the Empire State would attempt to dominate the Midwest's shipping routes through the Great Lakes, etc. This would lead to hard feelings all around, and make a reassembly of the US unlikely.

    Quite likely most or all of the successor states would claim to be the real and legitimate US government, in the same way that the Europeans tried to revive the Roman Empire.

    Given a Putin figure, well, Putin has done fairly well. His nation is rather like a fish preserved in aspic. It doesn't decay, or at least not very quickly, but it doesn't expand as Imperial Russia did -- Putin is holding it together. Maybe the next Russian generation will present something with more vitality. The US might end up the same way, but something would have to be done about the "Change America" people before any coherence could developed. A split looks more likely just now, if only because it's more straightforward to cope with an enemy in a different political state than it is to cope with somebody claiming to "still belong" (to quote the song) but in fact resolutely hostile (e.g. the Squad, Biden, Sanders).

    Too bad. Not what I wanted at all.
  3. Anonymous[226] • Disclaimer says:

    PM Boris Johnson Infected

    So what? All Boris needs to do is get on the phone to Amy Klobuchar and find out what brought her husband back quickly from “coughing up blood” and “very low oxygen” levels.

    There is no problem here.

  4. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    At that point, they may deploy their hidden cure, if they have one. Unless the deep state withholds it from Trump.

  5. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    I wonder if the endgame of America’s Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    He will recover in time to face Biden’s vice president for the final showdown:

    Hillary Clinton.

    • Replies: @Che Blutarsky
    You can't eradicate evil, which means HRC will most likely survive all of this.
  6. Anon[145] • Disclaimer says:

    Reports are coming from hospitals outside the main pandemic that things are completely quiet. They’re not getting as many trauma patients from car accidents because people aren’t driving much, and they aren’t getting as many normal seasonal flu, pneumonia, and other disease patients because people aren’t going out and circulating. This is good, because it will decrease secondary infections if Covid-19 keeps spreading.

    • Thanks: Johnny Rico
    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Workers at a local hospital are getting transferred or even sent home. Hospital is 40% of capacity now. Much of that is rescheduled non-emergency surgery.
    , @UK
    It is the same in the UK. All of the hypochondriacs who normally clog up NHS emergency rooms are staying home. Strange quiet, I have been told by first hand sources.
    , @Dennis Dale
    I wonder if projections showing overwhelmed hospitals are factoring this in. They probably assumed the level of non-covid hospital visits to remain the same, but it has happily cratered due to everyone staying home and postponing/cancelling non-urgent procedures. This could be a cause for hope.
    , @anonguy
    This is good news. Hope they are using the respite wisely.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    They’re not getting as many trauma patients from car accidents...
     
    Which, in Chicago and Baltimore, lets them concentrate on the gunshot wounds.

    I was going to add New Orleans, but their facilities are under the strain of the Mardi Grippe.

    Bullets are effective from more than six feet. I wonder about London. If you're going to knive someone, you probably aren't concerned with "guidelines". But there are fewer victims out.

  7. Anonymous[226] • Disclaimer says:

    Maybe national leaders should wear masks?

    Absolutely that will help. But the masks still allow self-touching of eyes forehead and temples etc. The real virus transmission breaker is the mask+gloves combo with no self-touching of face. But you need a face shield really to eliminate the self-touching.

    Subway riders especially who wear a mask but not gloves are sadly misinformed. They’re obsessed with airborne transmission but the threat here is surface droplets. Droplets drop. The droplets don’t aerosolize. Unless someone is coughing in your face the transmission threat is

    Surface–>Hand–>Face

    And unfortunately the public can’t stop touching their faces so the real curve flattener would be preventative hydroxychloroquine for the entire population. Or jail at home style quarantine.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    Which means that a face shield alone would probably go a long way towards preventing transmission, mostly as a physical reminder to stop touching yourself. Yes?
    , @Dennis Dale
    I don't know how effective gloves are outside of the hospital setting. Gloves don't stop you from touching your face--they may in fact provide a much better transporting surface for those tiny droplets than porous skin--not only from your hand to your face but from object to object, as you go merrily on your way grabbing stuff like it's no problem because you have your magic gloves on.

    Mask and glasses--I have some cheap wrap-around clear safety glasses--solve the face-touching problem as well as the lesser threat of airborne infection. If you're working and doing stuff gloves quickly become impractical. You find yourself replacing them over and over--for the same reason you might be washing your hands over and over.

    Unless your gloves have anti-viral properties, there is no benefit in wearing them, except for single-use, such as doing laundry or any other handling of material likely to be infected--of course, you could still just wash your hands.

    , @The Wild Geese Howard

    And unfortunately the public can’t stop touching their faces so the real curve flattener would be preventative hydroxychloroquine for the entire population.
     
    Bruh, the unz.com medical experts have assured me hydroxychloroquine is a nothingburger, even though we have reports from yet another country moving to treat patients with it, seemingly following the Chinese protocol:

    Coronavirus control: Chloroquine treatment is becoming more widespread

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elwatan.com%2Fedition%2Factualite%2Flutte-contre-le-coronavirus-le-traitement-a-la-chloroquine-se-generalise-26-03-2020


    Or jail at home style quarantine.
     
    Don't look now, but those cute little bat and pangolin-eating Chinese folks are now chimping out:

    Hubei Residents Riot After Quarantine Lifted; Police Beaten With Their Own Shield, Cop Cars Overturned

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/hubei-residents-riot-after-quarantine-lifted-police-beaten-their-own-shield-cop-cars

    https://twitter.com/TruthAbtChina/status/1243521482707386371

    Kek.

  8. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    My view starting last fall was this election cycle would be the Boomerdammerung and the election itself would be a Boomer Bumfight.

    About 30 years after they took over from Greatest Generation after end of Cold War.

    We do have late stage gerontocracy.

    The fact that the virus, at the moment, and one cannot overemphasize this, is more lethal to Boomers in its initial acute infection stage (no definitive word on reinfection, organ damage, etc etc, and honestly it isn’t looking good), seems part of the pattern.

    Epidemics, like famines, are always man made events, as we create the condition for those types of events to occur.

    Coronavirus exploits globalist infection routes. One could make this mystic, but rather it is axiomatic that a pandemic in globalist time would exploit those pathways.

    Interestingly, the more globalist a place, the greater inability to control initial spread, it sorta seems like.

    There are outliers like Iran, but they have their own severe reality distortion zone.

    Oh, Persians (Iranians), like Italians, had a very high mortality rate during Spanish Flu both in Persia and in communities abroad.

    So did East European Jews.

    Seems like Levantine/Greater Syrian people did poorly as well.

    There is some interesting demographic data from Spanish Flu era.

    The first confirmed coronavirus death in Latin America, from Rio Grande to Tierra Del Fuego, was an Argentinian dude of apparently Italian ethnicity, 50s, contracted it abroad.

    Then there was that unfortunate Italian American family in NJ/NY area that, at last count, had lost 4 members in rapid succession.

    • Replies: @danand

    "We do have late stage gerontocracy."
     
    Anonguy, you could be right. Boomer and Generation Z just don't see eye to eye on the Coronavirus response:

    https://youtu.be/fapSaL3SQO0

    Either way, we're in the toilet.
    , @Anonymous
    “ The fact that the virus, at the moment, and one cannot overemphasize this, is more lethal to Boomers in its initial acute infection stage (no definitive word on reinfection, organ damage, etc etc, and honestly it isn’t looking good), seems part of the pattern.”

    Has anyone studied Covid-19 or other Coronaviruses as compared to Epstein-Barr Virus (Mono), Cytomeglaviruses (CMV) or HPV viruses?

    It seems those three viruses stay with many people long-term and cause underlying damage to organs and cancers.

    Many retroviruses have long-term issues and theoretically if not evidently contribute to Cancers. The only virus of the above mentioned that seems to have a vaccine is HPV.
    , @Anonymous Jew
    I dunno. Ashkenazis spent many hundreds of years north of the Alps where coronaviruses can spread easily. We are also more likely to have a Delta 32 mutation since we were urban during the plague. (My wife and I both cary a single copy of the Delta 32 mutation - not sure if it will help with this bug though).

    Since I have type O blood, a Delta 32 mutation, and am generally healthy (lean, light but not excessive exercise, balanced low-glycemic/low-inflammatory diet) I’m wondering what this will do to me. I’m also (only) in my early 40s. Don’t want to jinx anything but I’m cautiously optimistic. I’ll even report back on these pages...
  9. Politicians don’t need to wear masks… just stop the damn handshaking. That’s my own personal explanation (backed by zero data) for why covid19 hits men twice as hard as women.
    When you shake somebody’s hand at a big pow-wow you’re shaking the hands of the 10 previous guys he talked to .

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    And,regarding the example of Andrew Gillum,you don't know where that hand has been.
    , @Autochthon
    Me no shake-um hand.

    Haow.
    , @Eonic
    Alternative to handshake supplied by commenter Vigilante Jesus at Morgoth's review https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d30fba09bbe434c5dd9824a7d065e0a0f501ea2ca6ec920ff0f1b849fd4607f1.jpg
  10. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    Mr. Unz, are you trolling your own fine Web site?

    My unexpert guess is that the thing is highly contagious, most of have it as silent carriers, fortunately the people getting critically ill from it are a very small fraction, the progress of the epidemic is baked into the cake, the contact tracing thing only works with Ebola where there aren’t silent carriers, there is really nothing we can do or should have done, and we will have to face up to what unfolds?

    • Replies: @eD
    Inquiring mind, I have been aware of this since December due to reports of a friend in China and did a lot of research on it. And I'm completely at a loss as to the reaction.

    Taking the published reports at face value, this virus seemed to be both highly contagious but not very lethal (particularly not to healthy people). And this is how diseases work, particularly viruses, if they are too lethal they tend to kill their hosts which limits the ability to spread and vice versa. It also now appears to have been in the USA as far back as January and I myself may have had it then.

    Attempting quarantine measures with something both highly contagious and not that lethal is pointless at best, it will spread too easily for the measures to work and won't do sufficient damage to be worth them anyway.
    , @Charon
    Somewhere in the comments here someone presents a persuasive argument extrapolating from death numbers rather than infection test results.

    Because the death numbers are harder to interpret wrong, as the MSM are always doing with the test results.

    He arrived at about 1.5m which I agree seems low, but may be possible. Many people who think they have it just had a bout with the common cold.

    , @Semperluctor
    I concur. I have the distinct feeling that when antibody tests are made widely available, the data will show that millions of Americans were infected. If 20 million were infected, and 20,000 die, that would mean a death rate of 0.1%, which if I am not mistaken, is the same as an average flu season. Those data are important so that rational decisions are made this fall and winter, and we do not tank the economy based on faulty data.
    , @AnonAnon
    https://futurism.com/neoscope/half-coronavirus-carriers-no-symptoms

    Iceland has tested 3.4% of their country and half the positives show no symptoms:

    “Early results from deCode Genetics indicate that a low proportion of the general population has contracted the virus and that about half of those who tested positive are non-symptomatic,” said [Iceland’s chief epidemiologist Thorolfur] Guðnason. “The other half displays very moderate cold-like symptoms.”
  11. He will recover in time to face Biden’s vice president for the final showdown:

    Hillary Clinton.

    Or Michelle Obama.

  12. Rob Zuazua agrees:
    How can we get Americans to start wearing masks in public? I feel like most Americans have heard so much mixed messaging on masks and there is stigma attached.

    I made https://teammasks.org to connect volunteer mask makers with those who need masks, but no one orders any. Thinking face

    • Replies: @AnotherGuessModel
    It's not volunteerism, but handmade face masks (of assorted quality) appear to be selling well on Etsy. I really like your Dr. Seuss mask:) Best of luck on your venture, it's a good idea but largely a matter of luck if it takes off.
    https://www.etsy.com/search?q=face+mask&locationQuery=6252001
  13. We will develop The Golden Throne, and place the God-Emperor on it!

    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @A123

    We will develop The Golden Throne, and place the God-Emperor on it!
     
    Trump is now 16' tall, and is linked to the Golden Throne. (1)

    Task Complete! What is next?

    PEACE 😷
    _______

    https://www.wetheitalians.com/storage/app/uploads/public/5c6/125/e6d/5c6125e6d338c630443086.png
    _______

    (1) https://www.wetheitalians.com/default/massive-emperor-trump-float-presides-over-italian-carnival
  14. Anon[145] • Disclaimer says:

    It turns out hysterical idiot Kathy Griffin doesn’t have Covid-19 at all. She has an old-fashioned stomach virus. A cat scan revealed that her lungs are clear, and it’s her abdomen that’s the problem. She’s had vomiting and diarrhea, and she had just recently returned from Mexico. It’s Montezuma’s revenge. If she hadn’t traveled, she would have been well.

    https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2020-03-26/kathy-griffin-coronavirus-test

    • Replies: @anonymous

    It turns out hysterical idiot Kathy Griffin doesn’t have Covid-19 at all. She has an old-fashioned stomach virus. A cat scan revealed that her lungs are clear, and it’s her abdomen that’s the problem. She’s had vomiting and diarrhea, and she had just recently returned from Mexico. It’s Montezuma’s revenge. If she hadn’t traveled, she would have been well.
     
    So she was in the hospital tweeting furiously for media face time, while her mom died alone.

    Character is destiny.
    , @Barnard
    The average celebrity is absolutely desperate to get a positive test for Covid-19 while hoping for mild symptoms that can be played up to garner tons of public sympathy. There is no doubt Griffin was disappointed with her diagnosis.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Anon, when the MSN gives these effing prima donnas coverage it reinforces the opinion that the virus is everywhere and anyone can catch it. Every online newpaper that I had been reading has wall to wall coverage of COVID. Cleveland.com, (Plains Dealer's website) has black borders like crepe. Newspapers during WWII still carried other news, while thousands of American heros were being killed on two fronts. So strange.
    , @Kylie
    Still Trump's fault.
  15. Movie for the Zeitgeist of Covid-19 America.

    • Replies: @Dr. Krieger
    I am so disappointed that that is just a 6 minute short from 2000. I really want to watch that movie that doesn't even exist.
  16. anonymous[118] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    Doesn’t this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    No.

    No, it doesn’t.

  17. anonymous[118] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    It turns out hysterical idiot Kathy Griffin doesn't have Covid-19 at all. She has an old-fashioned stomach virus. A cat scan revealed that her lungs are clear, and it's her abdomen that's the problem. She's had vomiting and diarrhea, and she had just recently returned from Mexico. It's Montezuma's revenge. If she hadn't traveled, she would have been well.

    https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2020-03-26/kathy-griffin-coronavirus-test

    It turns out hysterical idiot Kathy Griffin doesn’t have Covid-19 at all. She has an old-fashioned stomach virus. A cat scan revealed that her lungs are clear, and it’s her abdomen that’s the problem. She’s had vomiting and diarrhea, and she had just recently returned from Mexico. It’s Montezuma’s revenge. If she hadn’t traveled, she would have been well.

    So she was in the hospital tweeting furiously for media face time, while her mom died alone.

    Character is destiny.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  18. “just stop the damn handshaking. That’s my own personal explanation (backed by zero data) for why covid19 hits men twice as hard as women.”

    True, I think, but I will add this personal theory. Loud talking. Loud, expressive talking could be a cofactor in why Italy had so many more infections than did the Germans, who have a lesser spritz. This could also be a cofactor in New York City.

    • Replies: @anon
    Are you just worried about the fate of white men...

    "The topic of masculinity, what it is and how it is expressed in both immediate and popular culture, is one that always seems to be spurred on or perhaps made more visible by conversations which happen on social media, usually centering around how men showing each other affection seems to be taboo."
    http://blackyouthproject.com/our-reactions-to-black-men-embracing-in-public-highlight-black-masculinitys-dehumanizing-expectations/
    , @Anon
    Loud expressive talking and finger jabbing into other people's chests, in other words acting like a brash peasant, is spreading Covid-19. That's typical New York behavior. New Yorkers have always been a bunch of brash peasants at heart.
    , @Anonymous
    Germans shake hands all day long, men and women. It’s part of the culture. It’s considered just rude, boorish and uncivilized to not shake hands. Yet Germany has a low rate of infection.
  19. I assume Trump and Pence have tested positive at this point, as well as Trudeau up in Canada. They are not telling the public in order to keep people from freaking out.

  20. @Bruce
    Rob Zuazua agrees:
    How can we get Americans to start wearing masks in public? I feel like most Americans have heard so much mixed messaging on masks and there is stigma attached.

    I made https://teammasks.org to connect volunteer mask makers with those who need masks, but no one orders any. Thinking face

    It’s not volunteerism, but handmade face masks (of assorted quality) appear to be selling well on Etsy. I really like your Dr. Seuss mask:) Best of luck on your venture, it’s a good idea but largely a matter of luck if it takes off.
    https://www.etsy.com/search?q=face+mask&locationQuery=6252001

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    It baffles me that folks like Karlin, Unz, et al, want to spend so much time arguing in comm boxes instead of encouraging a simple, cheap, and effective measure that people can make at home.

    It's almost like this is all a game or sport to the doomers.
  21. at least the national leaders (as well as famous and rich people) in western countries seem to enjoy the same privilege as ordinary citizens in rich East Asian countries: to get a test with mild symptoms, thus being better able to avoid infecting their surrounding.

    • Agree: Old and Grumpy
  22. • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
    Is it still OK to pussy-grab?
    , @Anon
    He still has yet to beat Lyndon Johnson, who shook hands with a leper.
    , @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/razibkhan/status/1243550265308930049
  23. The Left here in the UK lost no time in showing their nasty side:

  24. @Anon
    Reports are coming from hospitals outside the main pandemic that things are completely quiet. They're not getting as many trauma patients from car accidents because people aren't driving much, and they aren't getting as many normal seasonal flu, pneumonia, and other disease patients because people aren't going out and circulating. This is good, because it will decrease secondary infections if Covid-19 keeps spreading.

    Workers at a local hospital are getting transferred or even sent home. Hospital is 40% of capacity now. Much of that is rescheduled non-emergency surgery.

  25. @anonguy
    My view starting last fall was this election cycle would be the Boomerdammerung and the election itself would be a Boomer Bumfight.

    About 30 years after they took over from Greatest Generation after end of Cold War.

    We do have late stage gerontocracy.

    The fact that the virus, at the moment, and one cannot overemphasize this, is more lethal to Boomers in its initial acute infection stage (no definitive word on reinfection, organ damage, etc etc, and honestly it isn't looking good), seems part of the pattern.

    Epidemics, like famines, are always man made events, as we create the condition for those types of events to occur.

    Coronavirus exploits globalist infection routes. One could make this mystic, but rather it is axiomatic that a pandemic in globalist time would exploit those pathways.

    Interestingly, the more globalist a place, the greater inability to control initial spread, it sorta seems like.

    There are outliers like Iran, but they have their own severe reality distortion zone.

    Oh, Persians (Iranians), like Italians, had a very high mortality rate during Spanish Flu both in Persia and in communities abroad.

    So did East European Jews.

    Seems like Levantine/Greater Syrian people did poorly as well.

    There is some interesting demographic data from Spanish Flu era.

    The first confirmed coronavirus death in Latin America, from Rio Grande to Tierra Del Fuego, was an Argentinian dude of apparently Italian ethnicity, 50s, contracted it abroad.

    Then there was that unfortunate Italian American family in NJ/NY area that, at last count, had lost 4 members in rapid succession.

    “We do have late stage gerontocracy.”

    Anonguy, you could be right. Boomer and Generation Z just don’t see eye to eye on the Coronavirus response:

    Either way, we’re in the toilet.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    Am I going to hell for finding Dr. Phil vs. the Dumbest, Blondest Thot on Earth hilarious?

    "the Illuminati"

    "fake news"

    Dr. Phil's face at 0:56

    "but like"

    "you're the spoiled one!"

    "limiting our freedom"
  26. @Daniel Chieh

    I wonder if the endgame of America’s Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

     

    He will recover in time to face Biden's vice president for the final showdown:

    Hillary Clinton.

    You can’t eradicate evil, which means HRC will most likely survive all of this.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Che, if only. HRC passing now would mean no MSN wall to wall coverage of her State Funeral.
    , @Anon
    Hildabeast is getting regular transfusions of virgin’s blood after which the virgins are sacrificed to Satan.
    , @Charon
    Cf: Angela Lansbury's speech to her son Raymond in The Manchurian Candidate.

    "Rallying a nation of television-viewers into hysteria, to sweep us up into the White House with powers that will make martial law seem like anarchy."
     
    That speech (and her performance overall) are alone worth the price of admission. I speak of the 1962 film, of course, not the remake which I notice Google features.
  27. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    This would then be the ultimate moment of the American Pravda.

    (Son this ain’t a dream no more, it’s the real thing, B. Dylan – Senor – Tales of Yankee Power)

    • Replies: @David
    This came out yesterday. Might serve as a play list for the locked-down.

    https://youtu.be/3NbQkyvbw18
  28. Poor Boris. The good news is that he will recover quickly from this minor ailment.

  29. Looks like Covid is more like gout than leprosy! Someday, will it be fashionable to say I had Covid and beat it, like the pink loop breast cancer survivors/supporters wear?

  30. OT:

    • Replies: @Barnard

    Dylan didn’t say exactly when the song was recorded, but his delicate vocal delivery resembles the way he’s been singing in his live shows in the past couple of years.
     
    Thanks to free tickets, I heard Dylan in concert over ten years ago and you could barely understand his "singing" then. This review, while meant to be positive, makes this 17 minute song sound like incoherent rambling. Like Joe Biden, Bob Dylan needs friends and family who are willing to tell him it is time to fade away.
    , @peterike

    Bob Dylan surprise-released his first original song in eight years. Hear the dizzying 17-minute song "Murder Most Foul"

     

    I love Dylan, but man that song stinks.
  31. Anonymous[326] • Disclaimer says:

    Literally everyone should be mandated to wear masks and gloves in public.

    Politicians
    Police
    Postmen
    Truckers
    Grocery workers
    Office workers
    Shoppers

    EVERYONE

    garyoldman.gif

    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "Literally everyone should be mandated to wear masks and gloves in public."

    #okboomer
  32. @Anon
    It turns out hysterical idiot Kathy Griffin doesn't have Covid-19 at all. She has an old-fashioned stomach virus. A cat scan revealed that her lungs are clear, and it's her abdomen that's the problem. She's had vomiting and diarrhea, and she had just recently returned from Mexico. It's Montezuma's revenge. If she hadn't traveled, she would have been well.

    https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2020-03-26/kathy-griffin-coronavirus-test

    The average celebrity is absolutely desperate to get a positive test for Covid-19 while hoping for mild symptoms that can be played up to garner tons of public sympathy. There is no doubt Griffin was disappointed with her diagnosis.

    • LOL: Jonathan Mason
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "The average celebrity is absolutely desperate to get a positive test for Covid-19 while hoping for mild symptoms that can be played up to garner tons of public sympathy. "

    The Mail's Sidebar Of Shame is full of semi-attractive D-listers or wannabes who think they've got it.

    "My Coronavirus Hell" with LOTS of pictures.

    Re Italy, I wonder what the response would have been like with Salvini as Interior Minister?

  33. eD says:
    @Inquiring Mind
    Mr. Unz, are you trolling your own fine Web site?

    My unexpert guess is that the thing is highly contagious, most of have it as silent carriers, fortunately the people getting critically ill from it are a very small fraction, the progress of the epidemic is baked into the cake, the contact tracing thing only works with Ebola where there aren't silent carriers, there is really nothing we can do or should have done, and we will have to face up to what unfolds?

    Inquiring mind, I have been aware of this since December due to reports of a friend in China and did a lot of research on it. And I’m completely at a loss as to the reaction.

    Taking the published reports at face value, this virus seemed to be both highly contagious but not very lethal (particularly not to healthy people). And this is how diseases work, particularly viruses, if they are too lethal they tend to kill their hosts which limits the ability to spread and vice versa. It also now appears to have been in the USA as far back as January and I myself may have had it then.

    Attempting quarantine measures with something both highly contagious and not that lethal is pointless at best, it will spread too easily for the measures to work and won’t do sufficient damage to be worth them anyway.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    It certainly does appear the deaths are a function of how contagious it is rather than how lethal it is. Three of the four, including the health minister and CMO, who attended a meeting the other day are now self isolating. Another win for Oxford.
    , @Coemgen
    Is your friend in China in Wuhan?

    How do we explain the death by Acute Respiratory Syndrome of one of the most famous (in China at least) COVID-19 patients: Dr Li Wen Liang?

    He was thirty-six years old with apparently no underlying conditions that would increase his risk.

    My wife is a Chinese native who is fluent in Mandarin. She's kept me apprised of the WeChat/YouTube reports that have leaked out of Wuhan. When I ask her is there any "official" explanation of why Dr Li died she says the CCP refused him treatment. I say, in response, "in the West, someone in Dr Li's demographic would only experience `mild symptoms.'" She refuses to entertain that thought.
    , @eugyppius

    particularly viruses, if they are too lethal they tend to kill their hosts which limits the ability to spread and vice vers
     
    Tell that to smallpox. Tell that to myxomatosis; the rabbits will be relieved. Very lethal viruses can get very, very far, depending on how they behave before they kill you. Sars cov 2 could easily be orders of magnitude more lethal than it is and still take us by storm, so let's hope no more lethal strains emerge. It has a relatively long incubation period, and the course of the disease itself is very protracted. Remember the Diamond Princess? Just last week those passengers racked up their latest fatality, bring the total deaths to 11, or 1.5%.

    Now the Diamond Princess outbreak was stopped by Japanese health authorities about 1/3 of the way through its progress, having infected <20% the passengers. They tested everyone and put all positives in hospital isolation. Would the CFR go up, or down, were the pandemic allowed to run its full course? For the cruise ship, it is hard to say. For the real world, the answer is easy: It would go way, way up, as would mortality from all other causes, because the high rate of critical cases jam hospitals. We know from Lombardy and now increasingly from New York that your hospitals are plunged into chaos as infections reach about 2% of the population.

    (Inb4 the asymptomatics posting: The Lombardy total infection I get from spot-checks undertaken, where they tested basically everyone in a town. From New York, you can work backwards from current fatalities to get a rough picture of the state of the outbreak a few weeks ago, and then march forward up the exponential curve. The same picture either way, and NY has about equivalent per capita hospital resources as Lombardy.)

    Sars2 is dangerous for two reasons and only two reasons: 1) r0 of 3; 2) very high percentage of critical cases require ventilators. 1) Ensures that a lot of people get Sars2 all at once, and 2) means you run out of ventilators. Notice how neither 1) nor 2) is about the fatality rate. At first this seems low, but it goes up when you run out of ways to help people dying from viral pneumonia breathe.

    As for January: No. If it was widespread in January, you would have had a screaming unmistakable signal in that your hospitals would have been swamped with bilateral pneumonia patients. The population susceptible to serious symptoms (including a great many young people) is not mysteriously sequestered from everyone else until the last moment.
  34. Anonymous[332] • Disclaimer says:

    OK so we know Klobuchar won’t take the call from BoJo…..

    So just call Didier. Raoult has knocked the death rate down to .14% or 1 death in 701 patients doing his hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin regimen…

    https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/covid-19/

    That is why Didier is in the video (on his twitter) claiming this virus is in line with other respiratory infections.

    But there could be a problem here soon because Pepe Escobar claims the France national stockpile of chloroquine has been “stolen”……

    The New World Order is bad for your health!

  35. @Michael W
    Politicians don't need to wear masks... just stop the damn handshaking. That's my own personal explanation (backed by zero data) for why covid19 hits men twice as hard as women.
    When you shake somebody's hand at a big pow-wow you're shaking the hands of the 10 previous guys he talked to .

    And,regarding the example of Andrew Gillum,you don’t know where that hand has been.

  36. @MEH 0910
    OT:
    https://twitter.com/RollingStone/status/1243513745684541441

    Dylan didn’t say exactly when the song was recorded, but his delicate vocal delivery resembles the way he’s been singing in his live shows in the past couple of years.

    Thanks to free tickets, I heard Dylan in concert over ten years ago and you could barely understand his “singing” then. This review, while meant to be positive, makes this 17 minute song sound like incoherent rambling. Like Joe Biden, Bob Dylan needs friends and family who are willing to tell him it is time to fade away.

    • Replies: @anonguy
    More Boomerdammerung
    , @Daniel Williams

    Like Joe Biden, Bob Dylan needs friends and family who are willing to tell him it is time to fade away.
     
    Given that they’ll inherit his estate, I imagine Dylan’s relatives are delighted he’s resurfacing this late in his career.
  37. @Anonymous
    Maybe national leaders should wear masks?

    Absolutely that will help. But the masks still allow self-touching of eyes forehead and temples etc. The real virus transmission breaker is the mask+gloves combo with no self-touching of face. But you need a face shield really to eliminate the self-touching.

    Subway riders especially who wear a mask but not gloves are sadly misinformed. They're obsessed with airborne transmission but the threat here is surface droplets. Droplets drop. The droplets don't aerosolize. Unless someone is coughing in your face the transmission threat is

    Surface-->Hand-->Face

    And unfortunately the public can't stop touching their faces so the real curve flattener would be preventative hydroxychloroquine for the entire population. Or jail at home style quarantine.

    Which means that a face shield alone would probably go a long way towards preventing transmission, mostly as a physical reminder to stop touching yourself. Yes?

    • Replies: @Ozymandias
    "a face shield alone would probably go a long way towards preventing transmission, mostly as a physical reminder to stop touching yourself."

    Your face, Wilkey, stop touching your face.
    , @TontoBubbaGoldstein
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv-34w8kGPM
  38. @Anon
    Reports are coming from hospitals outside the main pandemic that things are completely quiet. They're not getting as many trauma patients from car accidents because people aren't driving much, and they aren't getting as many normal seasonal flu, pneumonia, and other disease patients because people aren't going out and circulating. This is good, because it will decrease secondary infections if Covid-19 keeps spreading.

    It is the same in the UK. All of the hypochondriacs who normally clog up NHS emergency rooms are staying home. Strange quiet, I have been told by first hand sources.

    • Replies: @Smithsonian_6

    It is the same in the UK. All of the hypochondriacs who normally clog up NHS emergency rooms are staying home. Strange quiet, I have been told by first hand sources.
     
    I wonder how it is affecting crime rates.
  39. Nancy Pelosi turned 80 yesterday. She should have retired in 2010 when she had to step down as the Speaker of the House but clung on for another decade because the Democratic Party could not hand control to either a black hack like James Clyburn who had seniority or some up and coming vibrant who represented the future of her party.

    Liberal whites and Jews cannot relinquish control because they will never regain power. What we saw with Biden teaming up with blacks v. the Bern Bros. and the brown folk (Arabs / Latinos) will be how the elites try maintain power. If they can sufficiently use the hatred of white men, they can form a volatile coalition but it will be increasingly prone to someone throwing a match just watch it burn.

    • Agree: Houston 1992
  40. anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @SafeNow
    “just stop the damn handshaking. That’s my own personal explanation (backed by zero data) for why covid19 hits men twice as hard as women.”

    True, I think, but I will add this personal theory. Loud talking. Loud, expressive talking could be a cofactor in why Italy had so many more infections than did the Germans, who have a lesser spritz. This could also be a cofactor in New York City.

    Are you just worried about the fate of white men…

    “The topic of masculinity, what it is and how it is expressed in both immediate and popular culture, is one that always seems to be spurred on or perhaps made more visible by conversations which happen on social media, usually centering around how men showing each other affection seems to be taboo.”
    http://blackyouthproject.com/our-reactions-to-black-men-embracing-in-public-highlight-black-masculinitys-dehumanizing-expectations/

  41. Anonymous[332] • Disclaimer says:

    Holy crap the globalists are moving hard to quash the hydroxychloroquine. It’s a war. First NY NV now Michigan when what they need asap is a massive flood of this medicine into Detroit!

    Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs warns that prescribing hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for treatment of COVID-19 ‘without further proof of efficacy’ may be investigated for administrative action…

    https://news.yahoo.com/michigan-governor-threatens-doctors-prescribe-024111454.html

    • Replies: @anonymous

    Holy crap the globalists are moving hard to quash the hydroxychloroquine. It’s a war. First NY NV now Michigan when what they need asap is a massive flood of this medicine into Detroit!
     
    Shut... the fuck... UP!

    You're talking about a drug from the 1930's that, even if it's administered correctly, which isn't something we can take for granted, can give the recipient permanent heart and brain damage, if it doesn't kill them. Hysterical patients and family, demanding that the drug be administered, along with stressed out hospital staff, can manifest a lot of unnecessary deaths. Deaths that would then be attributed to the Coronavirus, further fouling up statistics.

    , @El Dato
    It's time to do something about the red tape by people in pseudo-charge.

    These people can probably willingly lend themselves to a bit of testing to advance quickly in ascertaining efficacy.

    Meanwhile, Government Motors and Ford State Industries are in a bit of a sweat:

    ‘Open your STUPIDLY abandoned plant’: Trump lashes out at GM & Ford over ventilator delay
    , @J.Ross
    Whitmer is a total disaster, she was in the news earlier trying to get an emergency declaration from the president while mocking him, and the first thing she did in office was to unite her own state legislature against her with an all or nothing stunt (from which she backed down having gained nothing) about road fixing. She did the last opposition reply to the State of the Union so it is possible she is in-party marked for great things.
    , @anon
    The governors are trying to limit use to er's and hospitals for confirmed cases.

    Apparently this stuff was being hoarded. Supplies are limited at the moment. As soon as possible I would like to see this stuff used earlier in symptomatic cases. There are millions of doses on the way, but for now it would be unfortunate to see supplies run out.

    As far as the wording? I think this was put forward by the pharmacists.
  42. @Inquiring Mind
    Mr. Unz, are you trolling your own fine Web site?

    My unexpert guess is that the thing is highly contagious, most of have it as silent carriers, fortunately the people getting critically ill from it are a very small fraction, the progress of the epidemic is baked into the cake, the contact tracing thing only works with Ebola where there aren't silent carriers, there is really nothing we can do or should have done, and we will have to face up to what unfolds?

    Somewhere in the comments here someone presents a persuasive argument extrapolating from death numbers rather than infection test results.

    Because the death numbers are harder to interpret wrong, as the MSM are always doing with the test results.

    He arrived at about 1.5m which I agree seems low, but may be possible. Many people who think they have it just had a bout with the common cold.

  43. @SafeNow
    “just stop the damn handshaking. That’s my own personal explanation (backed by zero data) for why covid19 hits men twice as hard as women.”

    True, I think, but I will add this personal theory. Loud talking. Loud, expressive talking could be a cofactor in why Italy had so many more infections than did the Germans, who have a lesser spritz. This could also be a cofactor in New York City.

    Loud expressive talking and finger jabbing into other people’s chests, in other words acting like a brash peasant, is spreading Covid-19. That’s typical New York behavior. New Yorkers have always been a bunch of brash peasants at heart.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    Jewtalians, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, and the last of the city Irish.
  44. @eD
    Inquiring mind, I have been aware of this since December due to reports of a friend in China and did a lot of research on it. And I'm completely at a loss as to the reaction.

    Taking the published reports at face value, this virus seemed to be both highly contagious but not very lethal (particularly not to healthy people). And this is how diseases work, particularly viruses, if they are too lethal they tend to kill their hosts which limits the ability to spread and vice versa. It also now appears to have been in the USA as far back as January and I myself may have had it then.

    Attempting quarantine measures with something both highly contagious and not that lethal is pointless at best, it will spread too easily for the measures to work and won't do sufficient damage to be worth them anyway.

    It certainly does appear the deaths are a function of how contagious it is rather than how lethal it is. Three of the four, including the health minister and CMO, who attended a meeting the other day are now self isolating. Another win for Oxford.

  45. @MEH 0910
    OT:
    https://twitter.com/RollingStone/status/1243513745684541441

    Bob Dylan surprise-released his first original song in eight years. Hear the dizzying 17-minute song “Murder Most Foul”

    I love Dylan, but man that song stinks.

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
    No one ever told Dylan about the wisdom of retiring at the top of one's game.
  46. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    That’s the estimate with no suppression.

    Which those same people then use as tortured logic to insist on elimination of suppressive measures. Because “if almost everyone’s going to get it anyway, why bother trying?”

    If we keep social distancing for a while longer and crush the known cases with chloro + zithro, we could cut off the spread at a fraction of a percent, like China did.

  47. Wearing masks is incompatible with free Western democratic society. We are a free people who aren’t afraid of each other and don’t need to be treated like kindergarteners.

    • Replies: @Dennis Dale
    Cue the meme: decrepit figure in MAGA hat expiring in a hospital hallway: "at least I have muh ferdom!"
    , @AnotherGuessModel
    Disease has always played a important role in shaping how we dress and groom ourselves, sometimes in very surprising ways.
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Tell that to Americans who voluntarily wore masks during all of Spanish flu, you utter fool.
    , @S. Anonyia
    Isn’t being quarantined in your home (like most Americans are) far more of being “treated like a kindergartener” than going about your normal business and social distancing with a mask?
  48. The British upper crust must be riddled with infection if both Boris and Prince Charles are sick with the Wuhan flu. Hard to see how the Queen herself can be protected unless palace staff wear full PPE as a 94 year old women cannot very well self isolate herself.

  49. anonymous[118] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Holy crap the globalists are moving hard to quash the hydroxychloroquine. It's a war. First NY NV now Michigan when what they need asap is a massive flood of this medicine into Detroit!

    Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs warns that prescribing hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for treatment of COVID-19 ‘without further proof of efficacy’ may be investigated for administrative action...

    https://news.yahoo.com/michigan-governor-threatens-doctors-prescribe-024111454.html

    Holy crap the globalists are moving hard to quash the hydroxychloroquine. It’s a war. First NY NV now Michigan when what they need asap is a massive flood of this medicine into Detroit!

    Shut… the fuck… UP!

    You’re talking about a drug from the 1930’s that, even if it’s administered correctly, which isn’t something we can take for granted, can give the recipient permanent heart and brain damage, if it doesn’t kill them. Hysterical patients and family, demanding that the drug be administered, along with stressed out hospital staff, can manifest a lot of unnecessary deaths. Deaths that would then be attributed to the Coronavirus, further fouling up statistics.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    Yeah, that's a coherent argument for banning it. Mad cow disease much?
    , @dfordoom

    You’re talking about a drug from the 1930’s that, even if it’s administered correctly, which isn’t something we can take for granted, can give the recipient permanent heart and brain damage, if it doesn’t kill them. Hysterical patients and family, demanding that the drug be administered, along with stressed out hospital staff, can manifest a lot of unnecessary deaths. Deaths that would then be attributed to the Coronavirus, further fouling up statistics.
     
    Agreed. What you say is perfectly correct and reasonable.

    But you won't persuade the MAGA cultists that it's anything other than another wicked conspiracy by evil Democrats against Trump. MAGA cultists are simply not rational people.
    , @Daniel Williams

    You’re talking about a drug from the 1930’s that, even if it’s administered correctly, which isn’t something we can take for granted, can give the recipient permanent heart and brain damage, if it doesn’t kill them. Hysterical patients and family, demanding that the drug be administered, along with stressed out hospital staff, can manifest a lot of unnecessary deaths.
     
    A drug so dangerous that young and old people worldwide tolerate daily use with no ill effect, and about which the CDC says:

    Hydroxychloroquine is a relatively well tolerated medicine. The most common adverse reactions reported are stomach pain, nausea, vomiting, and headache. These side effects can often be lessened by taking hydroxychloroquine with food. Hydroxychloroquine may also cause itching in some people.
     
    Source: https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/resources/pdf/fsp/drugs/hydroxychloroquine.pdf

    A drug so redolent of quackery that doctors across America are hoarding it to treat themselves and their families.


    Doctors are hoarding medications touted as possible coronavirus treatments by writing prescriptions for themselves and family members, according to pharmacy boards in states across the country.
     
    Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/business/doctors-buying-coronavirus-drugs.html
  50. • Replies: @reactionry
    Agent Orange Man Bad?
    , @keypusher
    https://twitter.com/JoeEliseon/status/1005178135636213760?s=20
  51. By the way: That an elderly spouse should be refused, as is happening now at hospitals and nursing homes as a matter of policy, a place at the bedside of their better half when that person breathes their last, is to my mind simply appalling.

  52. @Anonymous
    Maybe national leaders should wear masks?

    Absolutely that will help. But the masks still allow self-touching of eyes forehead and temples etc. The real virus transmission breaker is the mask+gloves combo with no self-touching of face. But you need a face shield really to eliminate the self-touching.

    Subway riders especially who wear a mask but not gloves are sadly misinformed. They're obsessed with airborne transmission but the threat here is surface droplets. Droplets drop. The droplets don't aerosolize. Unless someone is coughing in your face the transmission threat is

    Surface-->Hand-->Face

    And unfortunately the public can't stop touching their faces so the real curve flattener would be preventative hydroxychloroquine for the entire population. Or jail at home style quarantine.

    I don’t know how effective gloves are outside of the hospital setting. Gloves don’t stop you from touching your face–they may in fact provide a much better transporting surface for those tiny droplets than porous skin–not only from your hand to your face but from object to object, as you go merrily on your way grabbing stuff like it’s no problem because you have your magic gloves on.

    Mask and glasses–I have some cheap wrap-around clear safety glasses–solve the face-touching problem as well as the lesser threat of airborne infection. If you’re working and doing stuff gloves quickly become impractical. You find yourself replacing them over and over–for the same reason you might be washing your hands over and over.

    Unless your gloves have anti-viral properties, there is no benefit in wearing them, except for single-use, such as doing laundry or any other handling of material likely to be infected–of course, you could still just wash your hands.

  53. @Anonymous
    Holy crap the globalists are moving hard to quash the hydroxychloroquine. It's a war. First NY NV now Michigan when what they need asap is a massive flood of this medicine into Detroit!

    Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs warns that prescribing hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for treatment of COVID-19 ‘without further proof of efficacy’ may be investigated for administrative action...

    https://news.yahoo.com/michigan-governor-threatens-doctors-prescribe-024111454.html

    It’s time to do something about the red tape by people in pseudo-charge.

    These people can probably willingly lend themselves to a bit of testing to advance quickly in ascertaining efficacy.

    Meanwhile, Government Motors and Ford State Industries are in a bit of a sweat:

    ‘Open your STUPIDLY abandoned plant’: Trump lashes out at GM & Ford over ventilator delay

    • Replies: @epebble

    ‘Open your STUPIDLY abandoned plant’: Trump lashes out at GM & Ford over ventilator delay
     
    Swinging his Big Dick makes good theater, but means nothing to produce a sophisticated medical electronics device that has to be used for life saving. GM & Ford can barely produce cars that people want to buy, after being in that business for over 100 years. Where will they get the expertise to make a product that needs advanced bio-compatible material science, complex computer control with software, extreme reliability and precision? Also, why does he not ask Toyota and Honda who have plants here and are known for making high quality products? What about IBM and Intel?
  54. God I’m bored with this virus already.

    • Agree: Lot, Jonathan Silber
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    pete, I asked for a new topic yesterday, anything, just as change of pace and crickets.
  55. On the mask front, the big winner is Slovakia President, Zuzana Čaputová.

    PEACE 😷

    • Replies: @Auberon
    OMG, look at the Zeppelins on her! 😛
    All the humanity! 🥛
    , @Lot
    Zuzana the sexy nationalist President: friend of Zion!

    https://twitter.com/ZuzanaCaputova/status/1220716734270799873

  56. @anonymous

    Holy crap the globalists are moving hard to quash the hydroxychloroquine. It’s a war. First NY NV now Michigan when what they need asap is a massive flood of this medicine into Detroit!
     
    Shut... the fuck... UP!

    You're talking about a drug from the 1930's that, even if it's administered correctly, which isn't something we can take for granted, can give the recipient permanent heart and brain damage, if it doesn't kill them. Hysterical patients and family, demanding that the drug be administered, along with stressed out hospital staff, can manifest a lot of unnecessary deaths. Deaths that would then be attributed to the Coronavirus, further fouling up statistics.

    Yeah, that’s a coherent argument for banning it. Mad cow disease much?

  57. @Frank G
    Wearing masks is incompatible with free Western democratic society. We are a free people who aren't afraid of each other and don't need to be treated like kindergarteners.

    Cue the meme: decrepit figure in MAGA hat expiring in a hospital hallway: “at least I have muh ferdom!”

  58. @Anon
    Reports are coming from hospitals outside the main pandemic that things are completely quiet. They're not getting as many trauma patients from car accidents because people aren't driving much, and they aren't getting as many normal seasonal flu, pneumonia, and other disease patients because people aren't going out and circulating. This is good, because it will decrease secondary infections if Covid-19 keeps spreading.

    I wonder if projections showing overwhelmed hospitals are factoring this in. They probably assumed the level of non-covid hospital visits to remain the same, but it has happily cratered due to everyone staying home and postponing/cancelling non-urgent procedures. This could be a cause for hope.

    • Replies: @anonguy
    Problem is that the needs explode by an order of magnitude or more and this reduction is on the same order of magnitude.

    And in the name of economic efficiency, i.e, richer rich people, our medical system doesn't have much margin to begin with, at least for this sort of thing, so a little more of a little is still not much.

    That being said, any margin is good.
  59. @Anon
    It turns out hysterical idiot Kathy Griffin doesn't have Covid-19 at all. She has an old-fashioned stomach virus. A cat scan revealed that her lungs are clear, and it's her abdomen that's the problem. She's had vomiting and diarrhea, and she had just recently returned from Mexico. It's Montezuma's revenge. If she hadn't traveled, she would have been well.

    https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2020-03-26/kathy-griffin-coronavirus-test

    Anon, when the MSN gives these effing prima donnas coverage it reinforces the opinion that the virus is everywhere and anyone can catch it. Every online newpaper that I had been reading has wall to wall coverage of COVID. Cleveland.com, (Plains Dealer’s website) has black borders like crepe. Newspapers during WWII still carried other news, while thousands of American heros were being killed on two fronts. So strange.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @JMcG
    Feminized now. No Country For Men.
  60. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    Doesn’t this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    I was thinking the same thing, but then it occurred to me that Trump is more of a Khrushchev – clownish populist – than a Brezhnev/Andropov etc. Maybe the US has to go through a senile Biden phase to complete the Soviet (or Roman Empire?) analogy.

    In any case, virtually nobody thought the Soviet Union would end before it suddenly collapsed. And that collapse was subtly linked to a natural disaster in Armenia, when the Soviets discovered they couldn’t handle it themselves and required outside help. So who knows what regime changes the pandemic will bring. I’ve heard there are whispers of a military takeover in Italy.

    (As an aside, the greatest recent historical collapse in a nation’s history must surely be the fall of the Manchu-founded Qing dynasty. After about 300 years of rule, it crumbled in the early 20th Century. 100 years later, the Manchu language has only 20 native speakers left. Not 20 million or 20 thousand. Just 20.)

    • Replies: @indocon
    Because they were foreigners in Han China.
  61. @Frank G
    Wearing masks is incompatible with free Western democratic society. We are a free people who aren't afraid of each other and don't need to be treated like kindergarteners.

    Disease has always played a important role in shaping how we dress and groom ourselves, sometimes in very surprising ways.

    • Replies: @HA
    "Disease has always played a important role in shaping how we dress and groom ourselves."

    Indeed. I find that my plague mask really helps with the social distancing. And I hear it's perfect for all those Illuminati eyes-wide-shut bacchanals, too -- in other words, the very opposite of social distancing.

    , @Daniel Williams

    Disease has always played a important role in shaping how we dress and groom ourselves, sometimes in very surprising ways.
     
    AIDS seems to have killed the hanky codes.
    , @HA
    "Disease has always played a important role in shaping how we dress and groom ourselves, sometimes in very surprising ways."

    The infamous Hitler mustache was purely functional, in that (unlike the Nietzsche-esque handlebars he previously wore) it could accommodate a gas mask.

    I'm not a fan of either the man or the mustache, but given that context, it was a pretty radical fashion statement.
  62. @Anon
    Reports are coming from hospitals outside the main pandemic that things are completely quiet. They're not getting as many trauma patients from car accidents because people aren't driving much, and they aren't getting as many normal seasonal flu, pneumonia, and other disease patients because people aren't going out and circulating. This is good, because it will decrease secondary infections if Covid-19 keeps spreading.

    This is good news. Hope they are using the respite wisely.

  63. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonguy
    My view starting last fall was this election cycle would be the Boomerdammerung and the election itself would be a Boomer Bumfight.

    About 30 years after they took over from Greatest Generation after end of Cold War.

    We do have late stage gerontocracy.

    The fact that the virus, at the moment, and one cannot overemphasize this, is more lethal to Boomers in its initial acute infection stage (no definitive word on reinfection, organ damage, etc etc, and honestly it isn't looking good), seems part of the pattern.

    Epidemics, like famines, are always man made events, as we create the condition for those types of events to occur.

    Coronavirus exploits globalist infection routes. One could make this mystic, but rather it is axiomatic that a pandemic in globalist time would exploit those pathways.

    Interestingly, the more globalist a place, the greater inability to control initial spread, it sorta seems like.

    There are outliers like Iran, but they have their own severe reality distortion zone.

    Oh, Persians (Iranians), like Italians, had a very high mortality rate during Spanish Flu both in Persia and in communities abroad.

    So did East European Jews.

    Seems like Levantine/Greater Syrian people did poorly as well.

    There is some interesting demographic data from Spanish Flu era.

    The first confirmed coronavirus death in Latin America, from Rio Grande to Tierra Del Fuego, was an Argentinian dude of apparently Italian ethnicity, 50s, contracted it abroad.

    Then there was that unfortunate Italian American family in NJ/NY area that, at last count, had lost 4 members in rapid succession.

    “ The fact that the virus, at the moment, and one cannot overemphasize this, is more lethal to Boomers in its initial acute infection stage (no definitive word on reinfection, organ damage, etc etc, and honestly it isn’t looking good), seems part of the pattern.”

    Has anyone studied Covid-19 or other Coronaviruses as compared to Epstein-Barr Virus (Mono), Cytomeglaviruses (CMV) or HPV viruses?

    It seems those three viruses stay with many people long-term and cause underlying damage to organs and cancers.

    Many retroviruses have long-term issues and theoretically if not evidently contribute to Cancers. The only virus of the above mentioned that seems to have a vaccine is HPV.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Doesn’t Epstein-Barr reinfect or flare up throughout a lifetime? It never really goes away?
    Could that be what Coronavirus does?
  64. Who is to say (credibly) that Mr. Johnson would not have tested positive a month ago, or a year, or two? What is the false return rate (positive and negative) of this particular test and testing service? What reason is there to believe that a positive result necessarily or often precedes any significant illness?

    This whole thing is 90% well played scam, and 10% medical illness, infections, whatever. We are all being lied to and played so that the looting of the world can go on. The global debt default has to be worked out in a way that does not completely destroy the wealth of the billionaire class that is now running the world. They have to keep all their wealth and privilege, and the rubes (working class saps) have to be first distracted (the phase we are in now) from the looting going on, then lied to (a coincidental phase with distraction) so that they voluntarily give up their claim on property without getting all violent about it. That is the last phase, and will be signified by the government sending checks or making direct deposits to a class never before “bailed out”. As soon as the first tranche of money (scrip, really) goes out, it will be impossible to avoid the last destruction of the old economic system. It was a badly gamed system that produced some unfortunate results, but it sure beat what is coming: Virtual and essential slavery for the lucky. Not tomorrow, but it will not be too long. The slaveowners will be corporations, not the massas that come to the American mind.

    This is the game. Watch carefully, everyone of any note at all is in on it. All the politicians, all be finance types, all the really rich folks, all the senior military commanders, all the media decision makers. The scripts are adjusted as needed, and the pace is furious. The stakes are immense for the scammers and their enablers. Failure means upheaval, a ruined world, and death for many of them.. If John Q. Public and all his cousins all over the world figure out how badly they have been getting f#*ked, and for how long this scam has been in development, the streets will run red. The prevention of a violent reaction to the theft, or the reckoning, or the default is what all this nonsense about Coronavirus® as an existential threat is about.

    Watch closely. This really is one for the ages. Are we (as a species) finally at the point where a huge appropriation of property and political sovereignty by the privileged few against the unwashed many can be accomplished without a big war? Are the propaganda and psy-ops fields so well developed and deployed that the masses can be persuaded to just peacefully give up things and ideals fought for and held dear? Trade all that for nothing more than than to allow a small group of people to run the entire world? A group who (if they succeed) will begin immediately to reduce the population of earth without a qualm?

    These are the stakes we masses face, pretend otherwise at great risk to yourself, your children, and your grandchildren. This is the real thing, right here. Be ready to show up when the time comes, and choose the side you support with care.

    • Agree: Hippopotamusdrome
    • Replies: @theMann
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/hubei-residents-riot-after-quarantine-lifted-police-beaten-their-own-shield-cop-cars



    Things are about to get real everywhere. Consider this:



    1. Terrible harvest last Autumn, because of the early cold (due to Global Warming, obviously)
    2. Spring planting, going on now, is as seriously disrupted as the rest of the Economy.
    3. Unemployed people, many not getting their jobs back, facing a BIG rise in food prices.
    4. Gross Medical incompetence, Extreme Political cowardice, and Oligarchs everywhere taking advantage of the ruined Economy.


    I particularly like the commenter at ZH who said "armed citizens vs 'roided up cops" or words to that effect.
    , @Kim
    Absolutely correct. It's a diversion while the stealing takes place. The general impoverishment of society in general is going to be stunning.

    And now that they have confirmed - as they suspected all along - that they can make the rubes believe and do anything at all on even the most ludicrous of pretenses, who knows where this is going to end?
  65. @Dennis Dale
    I wonder if projections showing overwhelmed hospitals are factoring this in. They probably assumed the level of non-covid hospital visits to remain the same, but it has happily cratered due to everyone staying home and postponing/cancelling non-urgent procedures. This could be a cause for hope.

    Problem is that the needs explode by an order of magnitude or more and this reduction is on the same order of magnitude.

    And in the name of economic efficiency, i.e, richer rich people, our medical system doesn’t have much margin to begin with, at least for this sort of thing, so a little more of a little is still not much.

    That being said, any margin is good.

    • Replies: @Prosa123
    Men aren't being allowed in hospitals when their wives give birth.
  66. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn’t he in a pretty high risk group?

    Trump is reasonably healthy despite his age. And given that he talked about chloroquine, he would be taking it. If an inexpensive medicine works for U.S. Citizens, Trump will bypass the 1% Elites of BigPharma to get it to the people.
    ____

    What scares the Globalist Dems?

    The risk to the most physically vulnerable, activist politician in Washington — Ruth Bader Ginsburg. How many times has Ginsburg been hospitalized recently? At least twice last year.

    PEACE 😷

    • Replies: @Pericles

    The risk to the most physically vulnerable, activist politician in Washington — Ruth Bader Ginsburg. How many times has Ginsburg been hospitalized recently? At least twice last year.

     

    Assuming she's still alive.
  67. Anonymous[325] • Disclaimer says:

    Shut… the fuck… UP! You’re talking about a drug from the 1930’s that, even if it’s administered correctly, which isn’t something we can take for granted, can give the recipient permanent heart and brain damage, if it doesn’t kill them.

    Hydroxychloroquine is not a 1930s drug it is not the same as Chloroquine. The side effects are milder. Get informed.

    The side effects are possibly dangerous for LONG TERM users.

    Chi-com Bat Flu requires either short term high dose or long term low dose preventative. Either way it’s not high risk.

    Remember we’re talking about a drug that is one of the most prescribed in the world.

    • Replies: @anon
    I wonder if Gin and Tonic will help alleviate the problem... Brits sure do love their G&T.

    "So what is the campaign about? As explained by the campaign initiator, Fever Tree, ‘the quinine that gives tonic water its gentle bitterness was also an important anti-malarial ingredient, used for centuries to ward off this deadly disease.’ This is certainly true. However, bad news for all Gin &Tonic lovers, drinking tonic water will not protect you from contracting malaria. According to the Travel Doctor, to get the required amount of quinine from Gin & Tonic to prevent contracting malaria, one would need to consume 67 liters of tonic water. If true, there are definitely easier ways to prevent Malaria, including medication, even if not as pleasant as sipping a glass of Gin & Tonic."

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2018/04/26/what-does-gin-and-tonic-have-to-do-with-malaria-prevention/#490ff27a68cb
  68. @Che Blutarsky
    You can't eradicate evil, which means HRC will most likely survive all of this.

    Che, if only. HRC passing now would mean no MSN wall to wall coverage of her State Funeral.

  69. @TelfoedJohn

    Doesn’t this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?
     
    I was thinking the same thing, but then it occurred to me that Trump is more of a Khrushchev - clownish populist - than a Brezhnev/Andropov etc. Maybe the US has to go through a senile Biden phase to complete the Soviet (or Roman Empire?) analogy.

    In any case, virtually nobody thought the Soviet Union would end before it suddenly collapsed. And that collapse was subtly linked to a natural disaster in Armenia, when the Soviets discovered they couldn’t handle it themselves and required outside help. So who knows what regime changes the pandemic will bring. I’ve heard there are whispers of a military takeover in Italy.

    (As an aside, the greatest recent historical collapse in a nation’s history must surely be the fall of the Manchu-founded Qing dynasty. After about 300 years of rule, it crumbled in the early 20th Century. 100 years later, the Manchu language has only 20 native speakers left. Not 20 million or 20 thousand. Just 20.)

    Because they were foreigners in Han China.

  70. @Barnard
    The average celebrity is absolutely desperate to get a positive test for Covid-19 while hoping for mild symptoms that can be played up to garner tons of public sympathy. There is no doubt Griffin was disappointed with her diagnosis.

    “The average celebrity is absolutely desperate to get a positive test for Covid-19 while hoping for mild symptoms that can be played up to garner tons of public sympathy. “

    The Mail’s Sidebar Of Shame is full of semi-attractive D-listers or wannabes who think they’ve got it.

    “My Coronavirus Hell” with LOTS of pictures.

    Re Italy, I wonder what the response would have been like with Salvini as Interior Minister?

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    My hope is that we will soon see Salvini as Il Duce II.
  71. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    Perhaps Ron should set up a covid-19 prediction market.

  72. Remarkable how many famous and powerful people have it. Even more remarkable you never hear of them rotting in a hospital bed while gasping for air, or even dying. Maybe that is about to change. Not that I wish the worse of this flu on anyone. It is just makes you wonder.

  73. definitely a 1978 The Stand element to this aspect of the story.

    it got all the way to the Prime Minister!

    Trump secretly has it, they just won’t tell us!

    yeah, Boris Johnson might even cough a few times. then fight it off.

    Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders should avoid it for real though. they are almost 80 and have existing health conditions. but let’s say they both get taken out. does that mean Bloomberg goes back in the race? Warren? how does this work?

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
    On the bright side, if Corona-Chan takes BoJo to that rotten borough in the sky, the Brits will erect a lovely statue of him in his honor.
  74. @Anonymous
    Maybe national leaders should wear masks?

    Absolutely that will help. But the masks still allow self-touching of eyes forehead and temples etc. The real virus transmission breaker is the mask+gloves combo with no self-touching of face. But you need a face shield really to eliminate the self-touching.

    Subway riders especially who wear a mask but not gloves are sadly misinformed. They're obsessed with airborne transmission but the threat here is surface droplets. Droplets drop. The droplets don't aerosolize. Unless someone is coughing in your face the transmission threat is

    Surface-->Hand-->Face

    And unfortunately the public can't stop touching their faces so the real curve flattener would be preventative hydroxychloroquine for the entire population. Or jail at home style quarantine.

    And unfortunately the public can’t stop touching their faces so the real curve flattener would be preventative hydroxychloroquine for the entire population.

    Bruh, the unz.com medical experts have assured me hydroxychloroquine is a nothingburger, even though we have reports from yet another country moving to treat patients with it, seemingly following the Chinese protocol:

    Coronavirus control: Chloroquine treatment is becoming more widespread

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elwatan.com%2Fedition%2Factualite%2Flutte-contre-le-coronavirus-le-traitement-a-la-chloroquine-se-generalise-26-03-2020

    Or jail at home style quarantine.

    Don’t look now, but those cute little bat and pangolin-eating Chinese folks are now chimping out:

    Hubei Residents Riot After Quarantine Lifted; Police Beaten With Their Own Shield, Cop Cars Overturned

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/hubei-residents-riot-after-quarantine-lifted-police-beaten-their-own-shield-cop-cars

    Kek.

    • Thanks: Grahamsno(G64)
  75. @A123
    On the mask front, the big winner is Slovakia President, Zuzana Čaputová.

    https://media.breitbart.com/media/2020/03/GettyImages-1207930268-1024x683.jpg

    PEACE 😷

    OMG, look at the Zeppelins on her! 😛
    All the humanity! 🥛

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
  76. BoJo is truly a Great Leader. He didn’t just talk the “herd immunity” talk, but walked the walk, leading by example. Chad af!

    • Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
    But you should see the man who pushed the Herd immunity solution running away like the proverbial scurrying Rat i.e. Dominic Cummings. LOl @ the cowardly Rat.

    https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/27/dominic-cummings-runs-downing-street-boris-gets-coronavirus-12467131/
  77. @peterike
    God I'm bored with this virus already.

    pete, I asked for a new topic yesterday, anything, just as change of pace and crickets.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    OT. Joe, WELCOME BACK! YOU HAD BEEN MISSED!!

    Although I must admit that I felt you acted like a SJW in your departure, especially since I always regarded you as essentially opposite.

    Nevertheless, a sincere welcome back to Ron's variegated band of Deplorables.
  78. @A123
    On the mask front, the big winner is Slovakia President, Zuzana Čaputová.

    https://media.breitbart.com/media/2020/03/GettyImages-1207930268-1024x683.jpg

    PEACE 😷

    Zuzana the sexy nationalist President: friend of Zion!

    • Replies: @Dennis Dale
    Nice warm handshake there. Corona-chan, that's your cue...
  79. Anon[762] • Disclaimer says:

    Senator Lamar Alexander’s daughter tested positive for Covid19. It is getting to some of our higher classes, obviously.
    I imagine chlorinique will be available for impotant people even if it isn’t for us Joe Sixpacks.

    Im still hoping for a week of April 20th restart out here in the heartland, but that could be a good month optimistic. Pray and stay home as much as possible. Use kleneex to touch ATM keys and doors, wash hands before and after forays out. Wave or nod instead of shaking hands. Stay healthy Unz-ites.

    • Replies: @Pontius
    And the chloroquine stash in France disappeared? How odd and completely unforeseeable.
  80. @danand

    "We do have late stage gerontocracy."
     
    Anonguy, you could be right. Boomer and Generation Z just don't see eye to eye on the Coronavirus response:

    https://youtu.be/fapSaL3SQO0

    Either way, we're in the toilet.

    Am I going to hell for finding Dr. Phil vs. the Dumbest, Blondest Thot on Earth hilarious?

    “the Illuminati”

    “fake news”

    Dr. Phil’s face at 0:56

    “but like”

    “you’re the spoiled one!”

    “limiting our freedom”

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    Ever kiss a broad with lip injections? It's weird.
  81. @Wilkey
    Which means that a face shield alone would probably go a long way towards preventing transmission, mostly as a physical reminder to stop touching yourself. Yes?

    “a face shield alone would probably go a long way towards preventing transmission, mostly as a physical reminder to stop touching yourself.”

    Your face, Wilkey, stop touching your face.

  82. Seeing the site proprietor here on iSteve a lot lately has been kind of neat no matter how much or little I agree with him. It just brought up something I wanted to write, since Mr. Unz had commented a few months back that he wondered what all the fuss about the iSteve blog portion of unz.com is about. (Remember that?)

    A commenter yesterday or so refered to the unz site as an “island of sanity”. I’d like to correct and add to that. The iSteve blog is part of an archipelago of sanity within a fairly insane big world of writers and commenters. Think of Godfree Roberts, his mad-imbecile act FB, and the sac-hangers like Biff, showmethereal, etc. (there are hundreds) as the Bolsheviks of old who have taken over most of the unz site. There are lots of writers I’ve read only once and seen the same old-fashioned Communism, Socialism, and other stupidity, as if this were 1917, and we’d still go for it. The Iron Curtain exists again, it’s called [IGNORE] now.

    Now, Steve here has the BEST commenters writing on his threads. It’s an oasis. Say, the commenters live on the Big Island of Hawaii. Steve, along with Jack D, AnotherDad, and dozens of others could be the Steve McGarretts, Danos, and Chin-Hoes on Oahu. You take a twin Otter to get out to some of the more far-flung islands of this archipelago to John Derbyshire, Audacious Epigone, Pat Buchanan, Ron Paul, and their usually sane commenters, with a side tour to the sometimes repetitive but courageous Paul Kersey.

    The thing is, you DON’T LEAVE THE ARCHIPELAGO of SANITY! If you do, at least Don’t get off the fucking boat! The Roberts (both of them now) live as savages on far away islands that have never seen the outside world (OK, Thailand in the case of Godfree). There are dozens of others, living in their own island worlds, untouched by modern saneness. Disturb them at your own risk. (Ever seen The Green Inferno? – Part 2)

    Mr. Unz, you have been protected by your status as owner/operator and guy with the occasional bold wording. When you go back, you may realize what a dark savage cannibalistic world the rest of your site is.

    Still, I greatly respect your undying support for free speech. I’m not so sure about your undying respect for insanity.

    • Agree: vhrm
    • Replies: @anon
    Wow and I just come here because I don't have to sign in to comment.
    , @Dieter Kief
    There is no freedom without insanity, Achmed.

    (This idea might be a proof for the necessity of God. Without him, you couldn't fill the (at times quite intimidating) gap that opens up in th heads of the knowledgeables in my first sentence.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    Where does Gilligan's isle fit into your analysis? And the three-hour tour?
    , @anonymous
    Your insecurity is showing.
  83. @Redneck farmer
    We will develop The Golden Throne, and place the God-Emperor on it!

    We will develop The Golden Throne, and place the God-Emperor on it!

    Trump is now 16′ tall, and is linked to the Golden Throne. (1)

    Task Complete! What is next?

    PEACE 😷
    _______


    _______

    (1) https://www.wetheitalians.com/default/massive-emperor-trump-float-presides-over-italian-carnival

    • LOL: Smithsonian_6
  84. @Anon
    Loud expressive talking and finger jabbing into other people's chests, in other words acting like a brash peasant, is spreading Covid-19. That's typical New York behavior. New Yorkers have always been a bunch of brash peasants at heart.

    Jewtalians, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, and the last of the city Irish.

    • Agree: Anonymous Jew
  85. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    Great comment.

  86. @Achmed E. Newman
    Seeing the site proprietor here on iSteve a lot lately has been kind of neat no matter how much or little I agree with him. It just brought up something I wanted to write, since Mr. Unz had commented a few months back that he wondered what all the fuss about the iSteve blog portion of unz.com is about. (Remember that?)

    A commenter yesterday or so refered to the unz site as an "island of sanity". I'd like to correct and add to that. The iSteve blog is part of an archipelago of sanity within a fairly insane big world of writers and commenters. Think of Godfree Roberts, his mad-imbecile act FB, and the sac-hangers like Biff, showmethereal, etc. (there are hundreds) as the Bolsheviks of old who have taken over most of the unz site. There are lots of writers I've read only once and seen the same old-fashioned Communism, Socialism, and other stupidity, as if this were 1917, and we'd still go for it. The Iron Curtain exists again, it's called [IGNORE] now.

    Now, Steve here has the BEST commenters writing on his threads. It's an oasis. Say, the commenters live on the Big Island of Hawaii. Steve, along with Jack D, AnotherDad, and dozens of others could be the Steve McGarretts, Danos, and Chin-Hoes on Oahu. You take a twin Otter to get out to some of the more far-flung islands of this archipelago to John Derbyshire, Audacious Epigone, Pat Buchanan, Ron Paul, and their usually sane commenters, with a side tour to the sometimes repetitive but courageous Paul Kersey.

    The thing is, you DON'T LEAVE THE ARCHIPELAGO of SANITY! If you do, at least Don't get off the fucking boat! The Roberts (both of them now) live as savages on far away islands that have never seen the outside world (OK, Thailand in the case of Godfree). There are dozens of others, living in their own island worlds, untouched by modern saneness. Disturb them at your own risk. (Ever seen The Green Inferno? - Part 2)

    Mr. Unz, you have been protected by your status as owner/operator and guy with the occasional bold wording. When you go back, you may realize what a dark savage cannibalistic world the rest of your site is.

    Still, I greatly respect your undying support for free speech. I'm not so sure about your undying respect for insanity.

    Wow and I just come here because I don’t have to sign in to comment.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Too artsy-fartsy? And no, I didn't learn everything I know about Hawaii from 5-0 reruns! Who told you that?

    I agree. That's why I started commenting here to begin with.
  87. @The Wild Geese Howard
    Am I going to hell for finding Dr. Phil vs. the Dumbest, Blondest Thot on Earth hilarious?

    "the Illuminati"

    "fake news"

    Dr. Phil's face at 0:56

    "but like"

    "you're the spoiled one!"

    "limiting our freedom"

    Ever kiss a broad with lip injections? It’s weird.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    No, I hope I never do.

    I kinda doubt she got those injections for kissing....
    , @BB753
    It's even weirder to kiss an old geezer with a moustache like Dr. Phil.
  88. @Buffalo Joe
    pete, I asked for a new topic yesterday, anything, just as change of pace and crickets.

    OT. Joe, WELCOME BACK! YOU HAD BEEN MISSED!!

    Although I must admit that I felt you acted like a SJW in your departure, especially since I always regarded you as essentially opposite.

    Nevertheless, a sincere welcome back to Ron’s variegated band of Deplorables.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
  89. anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Shut… the fuck… UP! You’re talking about a drug from the 1930’s that, even if it’s administered correctly, which isn’t something we can take for granted, can give the recipient permanent heart and brain damage, if it doesn’t kill them.

    Hydroxychloroquine is not a 1930s drug it is not the same as Chloroquine. The side effects are milder. Get informed.

    The side effects are possibly dangerous for LONG TERM users.

    Chi-com Bat Flu requires either short term high dose or long term low dose preventative. Either way it's not high risk.

    Remember we're talking about a drug that is one of the most prescribed in the world.

    I wonder if Gin and Tonic will help alleviate the problem… Brits sure do love their G&T.

    “So what is the campaign about? As explained by the campaign initiator, Fever Tree, ‘the quinine that gives tonic water its gentle bitterness was also an important anti-malarial ingredient, used for centuries to ward off this deadly disease.’ This is certainly true. However, bad news for all Gin &Tonic lovers, drinking tonic water will not protect you from contracting malaria. According to the Travel Doctor, to get the required amount of quinine from Gin & Tonic to prevent contracting malaria, one would need to consume 67 liters of tonic water. If true, there are definitely easier ways to prevent Malaria, including medication, even if not as pleasant as sipping a glass of Gin & Tonic.”

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2018/04/26/what-does-gin-and-tonic-have-to-do-with-malaria-prevention/#490ff27a68cb

  90. @Lot
    Zuzana the sexy nationalist President: friend of Zion!

    https://twitter.com/ZuzanaCaputova/status/1220716734270799873

    Nice warm handshake there. Corona-chan, that’s your cue…

  91. @Anon
    It turns out hysterical idiot Kathy Griffin doesn't have Covid-19 at all. She has an old-fashioned stomach virus. A cat scan revealed that her lungs are clear, and it's her abdomen that's the problem. She's had vomiting and diarrhea, and she had just recently returned from Mexico. It's Montezuma's revenge. If she hadn't traveled, she would have been well.

    https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2020-03-26/kathy-griffin-coronavirus-test

    Still Trump’s fault.

  92. Anon[430] • Disclaimer says:

    I live on “first hill” in central Seattle, a ten minute walk to the complex of hospitals and medical centers that border Madison and Broadway.
    Today I walked into this area to a doctor’s appointment. It was a ghost town. Swedish hospital on broadway, including the emergency room entrance, deserted. The medical complex where my appointment was, no-one. Where are the lines of patients waiting to be admitted I read about elsewhere?

  93. @peterike

    Bob Dylan surprise-released his first original song in eight years. Hear the dizzying 17-minute song "Murder Most Foul"

     

    I love Dylan, but man that song stinks.

    No one ever told Dylan about the wisdom of retiring at the top of one’s game.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    "No one ever told Dylan about the wisdom of retiring at the top of one’s game."

    Dylan's generation and the Boomers who came just after them are dead set against this wisdom. These aged rockers and females who apparently think covering their grey hair also renders wrinkles and saggy flesh invisible are repulsive--physically, mentally and spiritually.

    No wonder younger generations loathe them.
  94. @prime noticer
    definitely a 1978 The Stand element to this aspect of the story.

    it got all the way to the Prime Minister!

    Trump secretly has it, they just won't tell us!

    yeah, Boris Johnson might even cough a few times. then fight it off.

    Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders should avoid it for real though. they are almost 80 and have existing health conditions. but let's say they both get taken out. does that mean Bloomberg goes back in the race? Warren? how does this work?

    On the bright side, if Corona-Chan takes BoJo to that rotten borough in the sky, the Brits will erect a lovely statue of him in his honor.

  95. @A123

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn’t he in a pretty high risk group?
     
    Trump is reasonably healthy despite his age. And given that he talked about chloroquine, he would be taking it. If an inexpensive medicine works for U.S. Citizens, Trump will bypass the 1% Elites of BigPharma to get it to the people.
    ____

    What scares the Globalist Dems?

    The risk to the most physically vulnerable, activist politician in Washington -- Ruth Bader Ginsburg. How many times has Ginsburg been hospitalized recently? At least twice last year.

    PEACE 😷

    The risk to the most physically vulnerable, activist politician in Washington — Ruth Bader Ginsburg. How many times has Ginsburg been hospitalized recently? At least twice last year.

    Assuming she’s still alive.

  96. @UK
    It is the same in the UK. All of the hypochondriacs who normally clog up NHS emergency rooms are staying home. Strange quiet, I have been told by first hand sources.

    It is the same in the UK. All of the hypochondriacs who normally clog up NHS emergency rooms are staying home. Strange quiet, I have been told by first hand sources.

    I wonder how it is affecting crime rates.

    • Replies: @UK
    Supposedly down, but there are some muggings of identified NHS workers, as private businesses are offering those with health worker IDs free stuff. Naturally, this latter set of crimes is in London is a vibrant blessing. (I have family in the exactly relevant part of the NHS and that makes me mad even as I have to be elsewhere. Were I in the UK I would be tempted to go full vigilante. Utter scum.)
  97. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    No one is allowed anywhere close to Trump unless they have had a very recent negative test.

  98. I read only the comments in this Comment Section and skip the essays posted in it.

  99. @anonguy
    Problem is that the needs explode by an order of magnitude or more and this reduction is on the same order of magnitude.

    And in the name of economic efficiency, i.e, richer rich people, our medical system doesn't have much margin to begin with, at least for this sort of thing, so a little more of a little is still not much.

    That being said, any margin is good.

    Men aren’t being allowed in hospitals when their wives give birth.

    • Replies: @anonguy
    I hope you think that is a good thing pro tem while we gain more information on the threat and disease.

    As well as keeping healthcare workers protected. China's initial response was impeded until they got their hands around the infection risk to their medical workers, who then spread it to others as well as becoming incapacitated themselves.

    Incidentally, the whole let's everyone get it, go to work, and just treat the dire cases is a strategy of both unparalleled stupidity and amorality.

    One of the many things on the stupidity side, picking out the severe cases and bringing them into the med care system is a proven way of developing a more deadly strain.

    Or at least it is to historians of the Spanish Flu, who claim that the deadly second wave developed this way. Mild cases remained in trenches whereas severe cases got transported to field hospitals, spread to staff, etc.

    Not to say that is how it would work again, but it has, according to chroniclers, previously.

    , @Anonymous
    I was in a hospital yesterday for business. To get in I had to have my temperature taken, wipe my hands with foamy hand sanitizer, and be masked and gloves just to go down a public hallway and into a server room.

    Today, as with half the time I have to go into a krankenhaus, I’m off work with the sniffles and coughing. I know I’ll probably be fine Monday.

    But this reinforces my belief that women should only give birth in hospitals if they are genuinely high risk or run into complications. Of course in 2020 America a disproportionate number of births ARE genuinely high risk, but that’s another problem.
  100. @Brian Reilly
    Who is to say (credibly) that Mr. Johnson would not have tested positive a month ago, or a year, or two? What is the false return rate (positive and negative) of this particular test and testing service? What reason is there to believe that a positive result necessarily or often precedes any significant illness?

    This whole thing is 90% well played scam, and 10% medical illness, infections, whatever. We are all being lied to and played so that the looting of the world can go on. The global debt default has to be worked out in a way that does not completely destroy the wealth of the billionaire class that is now running the world. They have to keep all their wealth and privilege, and the rubes (working class saps) have to be first distracted (the phase we are in now) from the looting going on, then lied to (a coincidental phase with distraction) so that they voluntarily give up their claim on property without getting all violent about it. That is the last phase, and will be signified by the government sending checks or making direct deposits to a class never before "bailed out". As soon as the first tranche of money (scrip, really) goes out, it will be impossible to avoid the last destruction of the old economic system. It was a badly gamed system that produced some unfortunate results, but it sure beat what is coming: Virtual and essential slavery for the lucky. Not tomorrow, but it will not be too long. The slaveowners will be corporations, not the massas that come to the American mind.

    This is the game. Watch carefully, everyone of any note at all is in on it. All the politicians, all be finance types, all the really rich folks, all the senior military commanders, all the media decision makers. The scripts are adjusted as needed, and the pace is furious. The stakes are immense for the scammers and their enablers. Failure means upheaval, a ruined world, and death for many of them.. If John Q. Public and all his cousins all over the world figure out how badly they have been getting f#*ked, and for how long this scam has been in development, the streets will run red. The prevention of a violent reaction to the theft, or the reckoning, or the default is what all this nonsense about Coronavirus® as an existential threat is about.

    Watch closely. This really is one for the ages. Are we (as a species) finally at the point where a huge appropriation of property and political sovereignty by the privileged few against the unwashed many can be accomplished without a big war? Are the propaganda and psy-ops fields so well developed and deployed that the masses can be persuaded to just peacefully give up things and ideals fought for and held dear? Trade all that for nothing more than than to allow a small group of people to run the entire world? A group who (if they succeed) will begin immediately to reduce the population of earth without a qualm?

    These are the stakes we masses face, pretend otherwise at great risk to yourself, your children, and your grandchildren. This is the real thing, right here. Be ready to show up when the time comes, and choose the side you support with care.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/hubei-residents-riot-after-quarantine-lifted-police-beaten-their-own-shield-cop-cars

    Things are about to get real everywhere. Consider this:

    1. Terrible harvest last Autumn, because of the early cold (due to Global Warming, obviously)
    2. Spring planting, going on now, is as seriously disrupted as the rest of the Economy.
    3. Unemployed people, many not getting their jobs back, facing a BIG rise in food prices.
    4. Gross Medical incompetence, Extreme Political cowardice, and Oligarchs everywhere taking advantage of the ruined Economy.

    I particularly like the commenter at ZH who said “armed citizens vs ‘roided up cops” or words to that effect.

    • Replies: @Charon
    Can you (or anyone) tell me why the airlines need tens of billions of dollars? The planes won't vanish. Just park them. The airports won't vaporize. The people won't disappear--they're getting unemployment compensation and extra money three different ways.

    Aside from trivial maintenance and startup costs, what's the deal? I wonder how many other businesses this might apply to.

  101. NYC health officials admitted today that 97% of the city’s deaths were among people with serious preexisting conditions and three-quarters of the dead were over 75 years old. This is a huge departure from the Narrative that everyone’s at risk of death

    Not that life in the city is completely different than before. At 3 this morning a skell wheeled a shopping cart of trash onto a subway car in Harlem and set it on fire. The train operator died, 17 people were injured, several very seriously, and three train cars were destroyed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Jew
    That sounds just like Italy. And they’re not even mass testing everyone so a lot of the asymptotic young people aren’t being counted.

    I always compare this to traffic deaths, since we’re just fine with roughly 100 deaths per day from traffic accidents. On the other hand, we are seriously cutting down on traffic deaths by shutting down our economy so there’s that.
  102. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    “ The fact that the virus, at the moment, and one cannot overemphasize this, is more lethal to Boomers in its initial acute infection stage (no definitive word on reinfection, organ damage, etc etc, and honestly it isn’t looking good), seems part of the pattern.”

    Has anyone studied Covid-19 or other Coronaviruses as compared to Epstein-Barr Virus (Mono), Cytomeglaviruses (CMV) or HPV viruses?

    It seems those three viruses stay with many people long-term and cause underlying damage to organs and cancers.

    Many retroviruses have long-term issues and theoretically if not evidently contribute to Cancers. The only virus of the above mentioned that seems to have a vaccine is HPV.

    Doesn’t Epstein-Barr reinfect or flare up throughout a lifetime? It never really goes away?
    Could that be what Coronavirus does?

    • Replies: @Lot
    “ Doesn’t Epstein-Barr reinfect or flare up throughout a lifetime? It never really goes away?”

    Yes. The viruses best known for this are all in the herpes family however: EBV, chicken pox, HPV.

    CV’s relatives cause normal seasonal colds.
  103. @anonguy
    My view starting last fall was this election cycle would be the Boomerdammerung and the election itself would be a Boomer Bumfight.

    About 30 years after they took over from Greatest Generation after end of Cold War.

    We do have late stage gerontocracy.

    The fact that the virus, at the moment, and one cannot overemphasize this, is more lethal to Boomers in its initial acute infection stage (no definitive word on reinfection, organ damage, etc etc, and honestly it isn't looking good), seems part of the pattern.

    Epidemics, like famines, are always man made events, as we create the condition for those types of events to occur.

    Coronavirus exploits globalist infection routes. One could make this mystic, but rather it is axiomatic that a pandemic in globalist time would exploit those pathways.

    Interestingly, the more globalist a place, the greater inability to control initial spread, it sorta seems like.

    There are outliers like Iran, but they have their own severe reality distortion zone.

    Oh, Persians (Iranians), like Italians, had a very high mortality rate during Spanish Flu both in Persia and in communities abroad.

    So did East European Jews.

    Seems like Levantine/Greater Syrian people did poorly as well.

    There is some interesting demographic data from Spanish Flu era.

    The first confirmed coronavirus death in Latin America, from Rio Grande to Tierra Del Fuego, was an Argentinian dude of apparently Italian ethnicity, 50s, contracted it abroad.

    Then there was that unfortunate Italian American family in NJ/NY area that, at last count, had lost 4 members in rapid succession.

    I dunno. Ashkenazis spent many hundreds of years north of the Alps where coronaviruses can spread easily. We are also more likely to have a Delta 32 mutation since we were urban during the plague. (My wife and I both cary a single copy of the Delta 32 mutation – not sure if it will help with this bug though).

    Since I have type O blood, a Delta 32 mutation, and am generally healthy (lean, light but not excessive exercise, balanced low-glycemic/low-inflammatory diet) I’m wondering what this will do to me. I’m also (only) in my early 40s. Don’t want to jinx anything but I’m cautiously optimistic. I’ll even report back on these pages…

    • Replies: @anonguy
    I don't know what it says about coronavirus, but the East European Jewish vulnerability to Spanish Flu seems pretty well documented and normalized for conditions in other immigrant communities.

    As it is for Italians/Italian Americans and Levantines and Persians. There is apparently more info on different groups but I just stopped at the Italians/Persians when that is where the outbreak was and the East European Jewish vulnerability and Greater Syrian vulnerability were mentioned in same documents.

    IMO those of East European Jewish heritage possibly face increased mortality as a demographic group if there is indeed ethnic variation in susceptibility. The picture isn't entirely clear, but there are indicators and it is something upon which to keep an eye.

    First NY death was a fifty something Jewish guy, it seems.

    These are small insufficient data points, but also possibly emerging data points.

    Israel has taken coronavirus as seriously as any nation and from the very beginning.
  104. @Prosa123
    Men aren't being allowed in hospitals when their wives give birth.

    I hope you think that is a good thing pro tem while we gain more information on the threat and disease.

    As well as keeping healthcare workers protected. China’s initial response was impeded until they got their hands around the infection risk to their medical workers, who then spread it to others as well as becoming incapacitated themselves.

    Incidentally, the whole let’s everyone get it, go to work, and just treat the dire cases is a strategy of both unparalleled stupidity and amorality.

    One of the many things on the stupidity side, picking out the severe cases and bringing them into the med care system is a proven way of developing a more deadly strain.

    Or at least it is to historians of the Spanish Flu, who claim that the deadly second wave developed this way. Mild cases remained in trenches whereas severe cases got transported to field hospitals, spread to staff, etc.

    Not to say that is how it would work again, but it has, according to chroniclers, previously.

  105. @BenKenobi
    Ever kiss a broad with lip injections? It's weird.

    No, I hope I never do.

    I kinda doubt she got those injections for kissing….

  106. @Prosa123
    NYC health officials admitted today that 97% of the city's deaths were among people with serious preexisting conditions and three-quarters of the dead were over 75 years old. This is a huge departure from the Narrative that everyone's at risk of death

    Not that life in the city is completely different than before. At 3 this morning a skell wheeled a shopping cart of trash onto a subway car in Harlem and set it on fire. The train operator died, 17 people were injured, several very seriously, and three train cars were destroyed.

    That sounds just like Italy. And they’re not even mass testing everyone so a lot of the asymptotic young people aren’t being counted.

    I always compare this to traffic deaths, since we’re just fine with roughly 100 deaths per day from traffic accidents. On the other hand, we are seriously cutting down on traffic deaths by shutting down our economy so there’s that.

  107. @YetAnotherAnon
    "The average celebrity is absolutely desperate to get a positive test for Covid-19 while hoping for mild symptoms that can be played up to garner tons of public sympathy. "

    The Mail's Sidebar Of Shame is full of semi-attractive D-listers or wannabes who think they've got it.

    "My Coronavirus Hell" with LOTS of pictures.

    Re Italy, I wonder what the response would have been like with Salvini as Interior Minister?

    My hope is that we will soon see Salvini as Il Duce II.

  108. @Kolya Krassotkin
    No one ever told Dylan about the wisdom of retiring at the top of one's game.

    “No one ever told Dylan about the wisdom of retiring at the top of one’s game.”

    Dylan’s generation and the Boomers who came just after them are dead set against this wisdom. These aged rockers and females who apparently think covering their grey hair also renders wrinkles and saggy flesh invisible are repulsive–physically, mentally and spiritually.

    No wonder younger generations loathe them.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    No wonder younger generations loathe them.
     
    Not all.

    I know a late GenX traitor who chose the Boomer worldview and he LOVES Dylan.

    He also thinks it's, "...a tragedy..." that HRC was not elected President, and that the world would be, "...amazing..." had she won in 2016.

    He's now a Director at one of the largest defense contractors in the world.


    Dylan’s generation and the Boomers who came just after them are dead set against this wisdom.
     
    So is Tom Brady. I think that's more of an athlete thing.
  109. @Barnard

    Dylan didn’t say exactly when the song was recorded, but his delicate vocal delivery resembles the way he’s been singing in his live shows in the past couple of years.
     
    Thanks to free tickets, I heard Dylan in concert over ten years ago and you could barely understand his "singing" then. This review, while meant to be positive, makes this 17 minute song sound like incoherent rambling. Like Joe Biden, Bob Dylan needs friends and family who are willing to tell him it is time to fade away.

    More Boomerdammerung

  110. @Smithsonian_6

    It is the same in the UK. All of the hypochondriacs who normally clog up NHS emergency rooms are staying home. Strange quiet, I have been told by first hand sources.
     
    I wonder how it is affecting crime rates.

    Supposedly down, but there are some muggings of identified NHS workers, as private businesses are offering those with health worker IDs free stuff. Naturally, this latter set of crimes is in London is a vibrant blessing. (I have family in the exactly relevant part of the NHS and that makes me mad even as I have to be elsewhere. Were I in the UK I would be tempted to go full vigilante. Utter scum.)

  111. NYC health officials admitted today that 97% of the city’s deaths were among people with serious preexisting conditions and three-quarters of the dead were over 75 years old. This is a huge departure from the Narrative that everyone’s at risk of death

    Am I the only person that remembers Die Hard with a Vengeance (1995)?

    Spelling out my point – more and more this smells like a huge misdirection play to take our money and our freedom.

    For the more cerebral, here is a summary of the Rockefeller Foundation’s 2010 ‘Lock Step’ pandemic scenario:

    https://www.sgtreport.com/2020/03/lock-step-2010-rockefeller-foundation-paper-laid-out-ominous-scenario-how-a-pandemic-could-be-used-to-lock-down-society-with-alarming-implications-for-our-post-pandemic-future/

    • Replies: @vhrm
    Supposedly that NY gold repository holds 7k tons of gold. That's $365b today.

    Ft Knox has ~$250b worth. So this stimulus bill... is more than three times bigger than both of those put together.

    We've outrun our cultural references of "near infinite amount of money".
  112. @Kylie
    "No one ever told Dylan about the wisdom of retiring at the top of one’s game."

    Dylan's generation and the Boomers who came just after them are dead set against this wisdom. These aged rockers and females who apparently think covering their grey hair also renders wrinkles and saggy flesh invisible are repulsive--physically, mentally and spiritually.

    No wonder younger generations loathe them.

    No wonder younger generations loathe them.

    Not all.

    I know a late GenX traitor who chose the Boomer worldview and he LOVES Dylan.

    He also thinks it’s, “…a tragedy…” that HRC was not elected President, and that the world would be, “…amazing…” had she won in 2016.

    He’s now a Director at one of the largest defense contractors in the world.

    Dylan’s generation and the Boomers who came just after them are dead set against this wisdom.

    So is Tom Brady. I think that’s more of an athlete thing.

    • Replies: @anon
    I know a late GenX traitor who chose the Boomer worldview and he LOVES Dylan.
    He also thinks it’s, “…a tragedy…” that HRC was not elected President, and that the world would be, “…amazing…” had she won in 2016.
    He’s now a Director at one of the largest defense contractors in the world.

    Does he also have a secret crime-fighting identity plus a GenZ sidekick?
    Asking for a friend.

    , @Kylie
    "I know a late GenX traitor who chose the Boomer worldview and he LOVES Dylan.:

    "Traitor" being the operative word here.

    A pox on him. So to speak.
  113. Anonymous[176] • Disclaimer says:
    @Prosa123
    Men aren't being allowed in hospitals when their wives give birth.

    I was in a hospital yesterday for business. To get in I had to have my temperature taken, wipe my hands with foamy hand sanitizer, and be masked and gloves just to go down a public hallway and into a server room.

    Today, as with half the time I have to go into a krankenhaus, I’m off work with the sniffles and coughing. I know I’ll probably be fine Monday.

    But this reinforces my belief that women should only give birth in hospitals if they are genuinely high risk or run into complications. Of course in 2020 America a disproportionate number of births ARE genuinely high risk, but that’s another problem.

    • Replies: @Alden
    So how does a woman in the process of giving birth get to the hospital? And how can serious injury or even death be prevented in the time she leaves her home, arrives at the hospital, and is given the treatment she and the baby need?

    Ever heard of placenta previa? It’s a deadly complication that happens after the birth. Or blood pressure soaring from a normal 110 120 to 250 in half an hour? Or shoulder presentation in which a baby cannot be born? Or the fact that a pregnant woman’s immune system goes way down during pregnancy which makes her extremely susceptible to serious infection and death if she gives birth in a non sterile environment?

    Before you post idiotic women hating comments maybe buy a medical school
    Obstetrics book.

    The misogynist women hating Men of UNZ never give up I see.

    Just insert “ I hate young women with tattoos”. “ I hate young women who rinse their hair pink and green” “ Woman presidents Vice Presidents senators congress men and judges passed the affirmative action laws and made the No White Men Need Apply court orders in 1968 and 1973 “
    “ I think childbirth should once again be unsafe for mothers and babies as it was for all of human history till about 100 years ago” “ I hate women I hate women I hate women I hate women” into any and all discussions.

    Misogynist impotent repressed gay loser women haters all of you women hating Men of UNZ.

    What a celebration you women haters will have when the quarantine is over and Kersey posts his next White woman killed by black Orcs article.

  114. still for herd immunity.

  115. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    “I wonder if the endgame of America’s Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn’t this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?”

    That would be most convenient for the Revolutionaries, the Leftists who see Hillary Clinton as too kind and forgiving and moderate.

    The naive assume that a nationalist strong man would rise from the chaos, but it is more likely in this climate that a Trotsky would arise. The far left – not old fashioned liberals possessed of some decency – control academia, journalism, tv, and Hollywood. They have considerable power in all areas of the Federal bureaucracy; they clearly have major clout in the FBI, and they have made huge inroads into the CIA and all branches of the military. They have ties to billionaire liberals and leftists across the globe.

    And they are crazed with a blood lust that has been growing since they realized that Barack Obama was just another average man who had been elevated because of non-white race and therefore could not produce the leftist paradise.

  116. Anonymous[325] • Disclaimer says:

    Yes Dennis Dale. The gloves are problematic as hell. If you’re on the go for hours at a time with no way to wash your hands in hot water then gloves are better than bare hands. For subway riders it is probably best to carry hand sanitizer.

    Or just stay off the subway. It’s a nightmare cv vector because of the constant need to steady yourself by grabbing a surface that has been recently grabbed by many others.

    The ability of this virus to stay alive on surfaces is a major issue. Those surfaces include your protective gear. it’s problematic as hell.

    THIS IS WHY WE NEED LOW DOSE PREVENTATIVE HCQ

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Or just stay off the subway.
     
    Maybe we'll finally realise that public transportation is a seriously dumb idea. I wonder how many of those who die each year from ordinary flu caught in on the subway or a bus.

    It's time to shut down subways permanently.

    Yes, I am joking. Sort of. Although personally nothing would persuade me to use public transportation. Apart from the dangers it's seriously disgusting.
  117. @Anonymous
    Holy crap the globalists are moving hard to quash the hydroxychloroquine. It's a war. First NY NV now Michigan when what they need asap is a massive flood of this medicine into Detroit!

    Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs warns that prescribing hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for treatment of COVID-19 ‘without further proof of efficacy’ may be investigated for administrative action...

    https://news.yahoo.com/michigan-governor-threatens-doctors-prescribe-024111454.html

    Whitmer is a total disaster, she was in the news earlier trying to get an emergency declaration from the president while mocking him, and the first thing she did in office was to unite her own state legislature against her with an all or nothing stunt (from which she backed down having gained nothing) about road fixing. She did the last opposition reply to the State of the Union so it is possible she is in-party marked for great things.

  118. @BenKenobi

    the last years of the USSR
     
    Collapse of a sclerotic, decadent and corrupt old order, followed by a brief period of decline, eventually culminating in a nationalist strongman?

    LET'S DO IT.

    Ah, but how do you know you’ll get a nationalist strongman, rather than a communist one?

    • Thanks: George
  119. anon[264] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    No wonder younger generations loathe them.
     
    Not all.

    I know a late GenX traitor who chose the Boomer worldview and he LOVES Dylan.

    He also thinks it's, "...a tragedy..." that HRC was not elected President, and that the world would be, "...amazing..." had she won in 2016.

    He's now a Director at one of the largest defense contractors in the world.


    Dylan’s generation and the Boomers who came just after them are dead set against this wisdom.
     
    So is Tom Brady. I think that's more of an athlete thing.

    I know a late GenX traitor who chose the Boomer worldview and he LOVES Dylan.
    He also thinks it’s, “…a tragedy…” that HRC was not elected President, and that the world would be, “…amazing…” had she won in 2016.
    He’s now a Director at one of the largest defense contractors in the world.

    Does he also have a secret crime-fighting identity plus a GenZ sidekick?
    Asking for a friend.

  120. @Buffalo Joe
    Anon, when the MSN gives these effing prima donnas coverage it reinforces the opinion that the virus is everywhere and anyone can catch it. Every online newpaper that I had been reading has wall to wall coverage of COVID. Cleveland.com, (Plains Dealer's website) has black borders like crepe. Newspapers during WWII still carried other news, while thousands of American heros were being killed on two fronts. So strange.

    Feminized now. No Country For Men.

  121. @Anonymous
    Doesn’t Epstein-Barr reinfect or flare up throughout a lifetime? It never really goes away?
    Could that be what Coronavirus does?

    “ Doesn’t Epstein-Barr reinfect or flare up throughout a lifetime? It never really goes away?”

    Yes. The viruses best known for this are all in the herpes family however: EBV, chicken pox, HPV.

    CV’s relatives cause normal seasonal colds.

  122. @Wilkey
    Which means that a face shield alone would probably go a long way towards preventing transmission, mostly as a physical reminder to stop touching yourself. Yes?

  123. @Anonymous Jew
    I dunno. Ashkenazis spent many hundreds of years north of the Alps where coronaviruses can spread easily. We are also more likely to have a Delta 32 mutation since we were urban during the plague. (My wife and I both cary a single copy of the Delta 32 mutation - not sure if it will help with this bug though).

    Since I have type O blood, a Delta 32 mutation, and am generally healthy (lean, light but not excessive exercise, balanced low-glycemic/low-inflammatory diet) I’m wondering what this will do to me. I’m also (only) in my early 40s. Don’t want to jinx anything but I’m cautiously optimistic. I’ll even report back on these pages...

    I don’t know what it says about coronavirus, but the East European Jewish vulnerability to Spanish Flu seems pretty well documented and normalized for conditions in other immigrant communities.

    As it is for Italians/Italian Americans and Levantines and Persians. There is apparently more info on different groups but I just stopped at the Italians/Persians when that is where the outbreak was and the East European Jewish vulnerability and Greater Syrian vulnerability were mentioned in same documents.

    IMO those of East European Jewish heritage possibly face increased mortality as a demographic group if there is indeed ethnic variation in susceptibility. The picture isn’t entirely clear, but there are indicators and it is something upon which to keep an eye.

    First NY death was a fifty something Jewish guy, it seems.

    These are small insufficient data points, but also possibly emerging data points.

    Israel has taken coronavirus as seriously as any nation and from the very beginning.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Is there increased mortality in those Jews who did not go out of their way to defy the law and eventually had to be baby-sat by the National Guard?
    , @UK
    Their Minister of Defence explained what they think. He explained that everyone should get it "but Grandma".

    https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Du9XE3UL-hMc&ved=2ahUKEwig8-Oo7rvoAhVOLLkGHcLeBQsQFjAAegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3x1oFidfW6U-2sc1o8-5-8
  124. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    It is likely that Trump and Pence have both received experimental Fort Detrick vaccines, probably in January. I would be surprised if POTUS does not preemptively receive vaccines for everything the Army can think of. It would only take a nation-state a few days with a handful of technicians and <50k reagent costs to culture a large enough dose for a meaningful inoculation in Vero cells. And of course the Army has access to volunteer test subjects.

    • Replies: @Sean
    Suspicious Chinese straight out of Contagion. If Soderbergh had give a second starring role to Sasha Grey, she would have been a tremendous asset to the film. And it would have saved thousands of lives because men would have watched it. Apposite, considering that the whole thing was caused by Chinese males wanting to be stallion-men. In Contagion the ' America has a secret vaccine' Chinese is portrayed as a sexless fellow who kidnaps a sexy French woman, there was a good build up but then it turns out because he is intent on saving orphans. This is the whole of the problem. The pangolin scale is an aphrodisiac, or so the Chinese seem to think.

    The disease is the result of a bat virus recombined with a virus from a pangolin making the chimera Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). In SARS-CoV-2, the Angiotensin Converting Enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor binding domain is from a pangolin, and that component of the chimerical virus is the key to how it so easily enters human cells to infect them. The original SARS-CoV was not nearly so easily transmitted. Yesterday Smuggled pangolins have been found to carry viruses closely related to the one sweeping the world. The most trafficked animal in the world is prized for its horny scales. They are keratin, as with rhino horn. So the West decimated because China is full of vain and foolish men. From now on, Westerners in China must leave the women alone and every male Chinese character in mass entertainment or worthy drama must be portrayed as a sexual Tyrannosaurus packing a whopper that women of all races are a pushover for. Only then will be safe from recondite wildlife viri recombination.
    ----
    In all countries the government prolly have had jabs against bacterial secondary infection, Merkel did. There is no vaccine, yet.
    ------
    Johnsons official deputy is Dominic Raab, but the rising star is Rishi Sunak. So there will be a Jewish then quite possibly Pakistani PM. Thank you masked man!
  125. @Achmed E. Newman
    Seeing the site proprietor here on iSteve a lot lately has been kind of neat no matter how much or little I agree with him. It just brought up something I wanted to write, since Mr. Unz had commented a few months back that he wondered what all the fuss about the iSteve blog portion of unz.com is about. (Remember that?)

    A commenter yesterday or so refered to the unz site as an "island of sanity". I'd like to correct and add to that. The iSteve blog is part of an archipelago of sanity within a fairly insane big world of writers and commenters. Think of Godfree Roberts, his mad-imbecile act FB, and the sac-hangers like Biff, showmethereal, etc. (there are hundreds) as the Bolsheviks of old who have taken over most of the unz site. There are lots of writers I've read only once and seen the same old-fashioned Communism, Socialism, and other stupidity, as if this were 1917, and we'd still go for it. The Iron Curtain exists again, it's called [IGNORE] now.

    Now, Steve here has the BEST commenters writing on his threads. It's an oasis. Say, the commenters live on the Big Island of Hawaii. Steve, along with Jack D, AnotherDad, and dozens of others could be the Steve McGarretts, Danos, and Chin-Hoes on Oahu. You take a twin Otter to get out to some of the more far-flung islands of this archipelago to John Derbyshire, Audacious Epigone, Pat Buchanan, Ron Paul, and their usually sane commenters, with a side tour to the sometimes repetitive but courageous Paul Kersey.

    The thing is, you DON'T LEAVE THE ARCHIPELAGO of SANITY! If you do, at least Don't get off the fucking boat! The Roberts (both of them now) live as savages on far away islands that have never seen the outside world (OK, Thailand in the case of Godfree). There are dozens of others, living in their own island worlds, untouched by modern saneness. Disturb them at your own risk. (Ever seen The Green Inferno? - Part 2)

    Mr. Unz, you have been protected by your status as owner/operator and guy with the occasional bold wording. When you go back, you may realize what a dark savage cannibalistic world the rest of your site is.

    Still, I greatly respect your undying support for free speech. I'm not so sure about your undying respect for insanity.

    There is no freedom without insanity, Achmed.

    (This idea might be a proof for the necessity of God. Without him, you couldn’t fill the (at times quite intimidating) gap that opens up in th heads of the knowledgeables in my first sentence.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    There is no freedom without insanity, Achmed.
     
    OK, then, I'm for it, then. I'd just like to keep it at a safe social distance.
  126. @Anon
    Reports are coming from hospitals outside the main pandemic that things are completely quiet. They're not getting as many trauma patients from car accidents because people aren't driving much, and they aren't getting as many normal seasonal flu, pneumonia, and other disease patients because people aren't going out and circulating. This is good, because it will decrease secondary infections if Covid-19 keeps spreading.

    They’re not getting as many trauma patients from car accidents…

    Which, in Chicago and Baltimore, lets them concentrate on the gunshot wounds.

    I was going to add New Orleans, but their facilities are under the strain of the Mardi Grippe.

    Bullets are effective from more than six feet. I wonder about London. If you’re going to knive someone, you probably aren’t concerned with “guidelines”. But there are fewer victims out.

    • Replies: @reactionry
    NHS Staff Lose Kit, Kaboodle* & Stinkin' Badges

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8155397/Coronavirus-NHS-workers-warned-hide-ID-badges.html

    * https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kit_and_caboodle
    , @Jack D

    Bullets are effective from more than six feet.
     
    If you hold your pistol sideways then you'd be lucky to hit your target at six feet.
  127. @Achmed E. Newman
    Seeing the site proprietor here on iSteve a lot lately has been kind of neat no matter how much or little I agree with him. It just brought up something I wanted to write, since Mr. Unz had commented a few months back that he wondered what all the fuss about the iSteve blog portion of unz.com is about. (Remember that?)

    A commenter yesterday or so refered to the unz site as an "island of sanity". I'd like to correct and add to that. The iSteve blog is part of an archipelago of sanity within a fairly insane big world of writers and commenters. Think of Godfree Roberts, his mad-imbecile act FB, and the sac-hangers like Biff, showmethereal, etc. (there are hundreds) as the Bolsheviks of old who have taken over most of the unz site. There are lots of writers I've read only once and seen the same old-fashioned Communism, Socialism, and other stupidity, as if this were 1917, and we'd still go for it. The Iron Curtain exists again, it's called [IGNORE] now.

    Now, Steve here has the BEST commenters writing on his threads. It's an oasis. Say, the commenters live on the Big Island of Hawaii. Steve, along with Jack D, AnotherDad, and dozens of others could be the Steve McGarretts, Danos, and Chin-Hoes on Oahu. You take a twin Otter to get out to some of the more far-flung islands of this archipelago to John Derbyshire, Audacious Epigone, Pat Buchanan, Ron Paul, and their usually sane commenters, with a side tour to the sometimes repetitive but courageous Paul Kersey.

    The thing is, you DON'T LEAVE THE ARCHIPELAGO of SANITY! If you do, at least Don't get off the fucking boat! The Roberts (both of them now) live as savages on far away islands that have never seen the outside world (OK, Thailand in the case of Godfree). There are dozens of others, living in their own island worlds, untouched by modern saneness. Disturb them at your own risk. (Ever seen The Green Inferno? - Part 2)

    Mr. Unz, you have been protected by your status as owner/operator and guy with the occasional bold wording. When you go back, you may realize what a dark savage cannibalistic world the rest of your site is.

    Still, I greatly respect your undying support for free speech. I'm not so sure about your undying respect for insanity.

    Where does Gilligan’s isle fit into your analysis? And the three-hour tour?

    • Replies: @reactionry
    This England, This Royal Throne of Porcelain*, This Septic Isle...

    I think it was the old National Lampoon or Mad Magazine which postulated a PBS series: "Isle of Gilligan."

    * The presence of diarrhea with COVID 19 is associated with a bad outcome.

    Also see hydroxycholorquine, chloral hydrate, compassionate care for terminal COVID***
    cases: Mickey Finn again, begin again
    See also a Jimmy Joycean Gilligans** Wake

    ** nope, no apostrophe for that catastrophe
    *** "19" omitted for alliterative purpose and because of patent disputes with Louis Farrakhan
    https://www.steynonline.com/8514/louis-farrakhan-favorite-numbers
    and a nervous breakdown by the Rolling Stones
    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1130&bih=761&ei=3Zl-XtCTLs-PtAbwio_YBA&q=rolling+stones+19th+nervous+breakdown+lyrics&oq=rolling+stones+nervous+&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgEMgIIADICCAAyBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeOgQIABBHOg4IABDqAhC0AhCaARDlAjoFCAAQkQI6BQgAEIMBOgQIABBDUJ8TWOJHYJCNAWgAcAF4AIABnwGIAbwPkgEEMjAuNJgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXqwAQY&sclient=psy-ab

  128. @anonguy
    I don't know what it says about coronavirus, but the East European Jewish vulnerability to Spanish Flu seems pretty well documented and normalized for conditions in other immigrant communities.

    As it is for Italians/Italian Americans and Levantines and Persians. There is apparently more info on different groups but I just stopped at the Italians/Persians when that is where the outbreak was and the East European Jewish vulnerability and Greater Syrian vulnerability were mentioned in same documents.

    IMO those of East European Jewish heritage possibly face increased mortality as a demographic group if there is indeed ethnic variation in susceptibility. The picture isn't entirely clear, but there are indicators and it is something upon which to keep an eye.

    First NY death was a fifty something Jewish guy, it seems.

    These are small insufficient data points, but also possibly emerging data points.

    Israel has taken coronavirus as seriously as any nation and from the very beginning.

    Is there increased mortality in those Jews who did not go out of their way to defy the law and eventually had to be baby-sat by the National Guard?

  129. @AnotherGuessModel
    Disease has always played a important role in shaping how we dress and groom ourselves, sometimes in very surprising ways.

    “Disease has always played a important role in shaping how we dress and groom ourselves.”

    Indeed. I find that my plague mask really helps with the social distancing. And I hear it’s perfect for all those Illuminati eyes-wide-shut bacchanals, too — in other words, the very opposite of social distancing.

  130. Gov Cuomo just admitted they dont need extra respirators in NY right now. WTF!!!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/brithume/status/1243683688535162885

    • Replies: @vhrm
    Just three days ago he came out screaming that the feds should release their whole stockpile of ventilators to NY.

    (https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2020/03/24/cuomo-to-trump-administration-you-pick-the-26k-people-who-are-going-to-die-1268833 )

    He apparently wants them in his warehouse vs. the feds' warehouse.

    He's literally hoarding ventilators.

    Now, he's right that things are on an upswing still and they'll need more, but his act went from "rousing call to arms" to panicky whining a good week ago now. I'm glad someone called him out.
  131. @eD
    Inquiring mind, I have been aware of this since December due to reports of a friend in China and did a lot of research on it. And I'm completely at a loss as to the reaction.

    Taking the published reports at face value, this virus seemed to be both highly contagious but not very lethal (particularly not to healthy people). And this is how diseases work, particularly viruses, if they are too lethal they tend to kill their hosts which limits the ability to spread and vice versa. It also now appears to have been in the USA as far back as January and I myself may have had it then.

    Attempting quarantine measures with something both highly contagious and not that lethal is pointless at best, it will spread too easily for the measures to work and won't do sufficient damage to be worth them anyway.

    Is your friend in China in Wuhan?

    How do we explain the death by Acute Respiratory Syndrome of one of the most famous (in China at least) COVID-19 patients: Dr Li Wen Liang?

    He was thirty-six years old with apparently no underlying conditions that would increase his risk.

    My wife is a Chinese native who is fluent in Mandarin. She’s kept me apprised of the WeChat/YouTube reports that have leaked out of Wuhan. When I ask her is there any “official” explanation of why Dr Li died she says the CCP refused him treatment. I say, in response, “in the West, someone in Dr Li’s demographic would only experience `mild symptoms.’” She refuses to entertain that thought.

    • Replies: @Manfred Arcane
    We don't know if the doctor was a smoker, or what shape his lungs were in after a life lived in China's pollution-soaked cities. Also, there is the sinister but quite possible explanation that the CCP was so displeased with his whistleblowing that they took the opportunity to quietly liquidate him under cover of the pandemic. We're talking about a government that still honors folks like Mao, remember. Anyway, I wouldn't extrapolate any general conclusions based on his case.
    , @Testing12
    He was murdered, obviously.
  132. @Reg Cæsar

    They’re not getting as many trauma patients from car accidents...
     
    Which, in Chicago and Baltimore, lets them concentrate on the gunshot wounds.

    I was going to add New Orleans, but their facilities are under the strain of the Mardi Grippe.

    Bullets are effective from more than six feet. I wonder about London. If you're going to knive someone, you probably aren't concerned with "guidelines". But there are fewer victims out.

  133. @Ron Unz
    Well, if the estimates---including those of Boris Johnson---are correct 60-70% of Americans will be infected, especially in the New York area where the epidemic is raging uncontrolled.

    I realize that Trump is a notorious germophobe, but given how contagious it is and how many people he meets, isn't he likely to get infected? He's probably too proud to start wearing a mask against "Just the Flu!!"

    If/when he gets infected, given his age and weight problems, isn't he in a pretty high risk group?

    And don't Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders pretty much fall into the same category?

    I wonder if the endgame of America's Coronavirus debate will be Trump Tweeting out insults while hooked up to a respirator, with Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden lying next to him.

    Doesn't this really remind you of the old Politburo in the last years of the USSR?

    Politburo indeed Ron….

    Keen observations as many are questioning just how stable our increasingly debt laden federal govt truly is….

  134. @anonguy
    I don't know what it says about coronavirus, but the East European Jewish vulnerability to Spanish Flu seems pretty well documented and normalized for conditions in other immigrant communities.

    As it is for Italians/Italian Americans and Levantines and Persians. There is apparently more info on different groups but I just stopped at the Italians/Persians when that is where the outbreak was and the East European Jewish vulnerability and Greater Syrian vulnerability were mentioned in same documents.

    IMO those of East European Jewish heritage possibly face increased mortality as a demographic group if there is indeed ethnic variation in susceptibility. The picture isn't entirely clear, but there are indicators and it is something upon which to keep an eye.

    First NY death was a fifty something Jewish guy, it seems.

    These are small insufficient data points, but also possibly emerging data points.

    Israel has taken coronavirus as seriously as any nation and from the very beginning.

    Their Minister of Defence explained what they think. He explained that everyone should get it “but Grandma”.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Du9XE3UL-hMc&ved=2ahUKEwig8-Oo7rvoAhVOLLkGHcLeBQsQFjAAegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3x1oFidfW6U-2sc1o8-5-8

  135. • Agree: Testing12
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Powdered rhino horn will fix that.
    , @Testing12
    File this under "NWO bioweapon evidence" drawer 5, Alfred.
  136. Anonymous[326] • Disclaimer says:

    Federal Govt Plan

    1. Quarantine all counties and boroughs with more than 50 cases, use local and state police to block the roads.
    2. Create loading/ unloading zones at the edge of the counties where over-the-road truckers pass off their load to local delivery inside the county
    3. Build or repurpose an existing military base centrally located in the country. Build the equivalent of twenty hospitals on the base.
    4. Contract the airlines to fly all covid patients to this base, regardless of how symptomatic they are (retrofit the planes with separate air circulation for pilots)
    5. Contract at least 1 EMS company in every county to do the testing at the patient’s home with full protective gear and separate ventilation for drivers. Have this EMS drive all positive patients to self contained trailers at major airports awaiting their flight to the central military base.
    6. All hospitals outside quarantined zones must stop treating covid. You must have a negative test result from EMS before you can be seen for any rhinovirus or cough/cold/pneumonia symptoms
    7. At the base, separate the hospitals by level of symptoms with zero contact between them except patients who “graduate” between hospitals
    8. Contract all compounding pharmacies to begin making drug essentials on US soil, including propofol, hydroxychloroquine, zithromax etc.
    9. Mandate the entire public to wear masks, and provide them
    10. Everyone back to work in all sectors
    11. Keep all travel into the USA banned
    12. Slowly begin to take the load from quarantined counties to the military base until eventually all cases are in one remote location

    You have successfully beaten SARS-2/covid-19

  137. @anonymous

    Holy crap the globalists are moving hard to quash the hydroxychloroquine. It’s a war. First NY NV now Michigan when what they need asap is a massive flood of this medicine into Detroit!
     
    Shut... the fuck... UP!

    You're talking about a drug from the 1930's that, even if it's administered correctly, which isn't something we can take for granted, can give the recipient permanent heart and brain damage, if it doesn't kill them. Hysterical patients and family, demanding that the drug be administered, along with stressed out hospital staff, can manifest a lot of unnecessary deaths. Deaths that would then be attributed to the Coronavirus, further fouling up statistics.

    You’re talking about a drug from the 1930’s that, even if it’s administered correctly, which isn’t something we can take for granted, can give the recipient permanent heart and brain damage, if it doesn’t kill them. Hysterical patients and family, demanding that the drug be administered, along with stressed out hospital staff, can manifest a lot of unnecessary deaths. Deaths that would then be attributed to the Coronavirus, further fouling up statistics.

    Agreed. What you say is perfectly correct and reasonable.

    But you won’t persuade the MAGA cultists that it’s anything other than another wicked conspiracy by evil Democrats against Trump. MAGA cultists are simply not rational people.

  138. @Joe Stalin
    Movie for the Zeitgeist of Covid-19 America.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4JmeXXRmZg

    I am so disappointed that that is just a 6 minute short from 2000. I really want to watch that movie that doesn’t even exist.

  139. @candid_observer
    OK, now it's serious:

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3077113/wuhan-doctors-plan-long-term-look-coronavirus-impact-male-sex

    Powdered rhino horn will fix that.

  140. @Coemgen
    Is your friend in China in Wuhan?

    How do we explain the death by Acute Respiratory Syndrome of one of the most famous (in China at least) COVID-19 patients: Dr Li Wen Liang?

    He was thirty-six years old with apparently no underlying conditions that would increase his risk.

    My wife is a Chinese native who is fluent in Mandarin. She's kept me apprised of the WeChat/YouTube reports that have leaked out of Wuhan. When I ask her is there any "official" explanation of why Dr Li died she says the CCP refused him treatment. I say, in response, "in the West, someone in Dr Li's demographic would only experience `mild symptoms.'" She refuses to entertain that thought.

    We don’t know if the doctor was a smoker, or what shape his lungs were in after a life lived in China’s pollution-soaked cities. Also, there is the sinister but quite possible explanation that the CCP was so displeased with his whistleblowing that they took the opportunity to quietly liquidate him under cover of the pandemic. We’re talking about a government that still honors folks like Mao, remember. Anyway, I wouldn’t extrapolate any general conclusions based on his case.

  141. @Anonymous
    Yes Dennis Dale. The gloves are problematic as hell. If you're on the go for hours at a time with no way to wash your hands in hot water then gloves are better than bare hands. For subway riders it is probably best to carry hand sanitizer.

    Or just stay off the subway. It's a nightmare cv vector because of the constant need to steady yourself by grabbing a surface that has been recently grabbed by many others.

    The ability of this virus to stay alive on surfaces is a major issue. Those surfaces include your protective gear. it's problematic as hell.

    THIS IS WHY WE NEED LOW DOSE PREVENTATIVE HCQ

    Or just stay off the subway.

    Maybe we’ll finally realise that public transportation is a seriously dumb idea. I wonder how many of those who die each year from ordinary flu caught in on the subway or a bus.

    It’s time to shut down subways permanently.

    Yes, I am joking. Sort of. Although personally nothing would persuade me to use public transportation. Apart from the dangers it’s seriously disgusting.

  142. @Reg Cæsar
    Where does Gilligan's isle fit into your analysis? And the three-hour tour?

    This England, This Royal Throne of Porcelain*, This Septic Isle…

    I think it was the old National Lampoon or Mad Magazine which postulated a PBS series: “Isle of Gilligan.”

    * The presence of diarrhea with COVID 19 is associated with a bad outcome.

    [MORE]

    Also see hydroxycholorquine, chloral hydrate, compassionate care for terminal COVID***
    cases: Mickey Finn again, begin again
    See also a Jimmy Joycean Gilligans** Wake

    ** nope, no apostrophe for that catastrophe
    *** “19” omitted for alliterative purpose and because of patent disputes with Louis Farrakhan
    https://www.steynonline.com/8514/louis-farrakhan-favorite-numbers
    and a nervous breakdown by the Rolling Stones
    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1130&bih=761&ei=3Zl-XtCTLs-PtAbwio_YBA&q=rolling+stones+19th+nervous+breakdown+lyrics&oq=rolling+stones+nervous+&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgEMgIIADICCAAyBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeOgQIABBHOg4IABDqAhC0AhCaARDlAjoFCAAQkQI6BQgAEIMBOgQIABBDUJ8TWOJHYJCNAWgAcAF4AIABnwGIAbwPkgEEMjAuNJgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXqwAQY&sclient=psy-ab

  143. @The Wild Geese Howard

    No wonder younger generations loathe them.
     
    Not all.

    I know a late GenX traitor who chose the Boomer worldview and he LOVES Dylan.

    He also thinks it's, "...a tragedy..." that HRC was not elected President, and that the world would be, "...amazing..." had she won in 2016.

    He's now a Director at one of the largest defense contractors in the world.


    Dylan’s generation and the Boomers who came just after them are dead set against this wisdom.
     
    So is Tom Brady. I think that's more of an athlete thing.

    “I know a late GenX traitor who chose the Boomer worldview and he LOVES Dylan.:

    “Traitor” being the operative word here.

    A pox on him. So to speak.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I agree with you on the performances, Kylie, but as far as the music itself, in whatever format, the young people have no choice. Their music just plain sucks ass. (I tried to put that as nicely as I could.)
  144. @theMann
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/hubei-residents-riot-after-quarantine-lifted-police-beaten-their-own-shield-cop-cars



    Things are about to get real everywhere. Consider this:



    1. Terrible harvest last Autumn, because of the early cold (due to Global Warming, obviously)
    2. Spring planting, going on now, is as seriously disrupted as the rest of the Economy.
    3. Unemployed people, many not getting their jobs back, facing a BIG rise in food prices.
    4. Gross Medical incompetence, Extreme Political cowardice, and Oligarchs everywhere taking advantage of the ruined Economy.


    I particularly like the commenter at ZH who said "armed citizens vs 'roided up cops" or words to that effect.

    Can you (or anyone) tell me why the airlines need tens of billions of dollars? The planes won’t vanish. Just park them. The airports won’t vaporize. The people won’t disappear–they’re getting unemployment compensation and extra money three different ways.

    Aside from trivial maintenance and startup costs, what’s the deal? I wonder how many other businesses this might apply to.

    • Agree: Smithsonian_6
    • Replies: @vhrm
    Because the modern corporations run on debt.

    The Debt-To-Equity Ratio in the Airline Industry

    The average D/E ratio of major companies in the U.S. airline industry is 115.62, which indicates that for every $1 of shareholders' equity, the average company in the industry has $115.62 in total liabilities. The airline industry is a highly capital intensive sector and is often considered to have some of the highest D/E ratios.

    Airlines companies need to purchase planes, outfit those planes, pay for fuel, air hangars, flight simulators, repairs on planes, pilots, flight attendants, baggage handlers, and a multitude of other costs. It is not a surprise that their debt levels are high.

    The airline industry is a service industry that uses the income it generates to pay off its debt. This puts tremendous levels of strain on airline companies, as they are constantly under pressure to generate business, and therefore income, to continuously pay off their debt
     
    ( https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/061615/what-average-debtequity-ratio-airline-companies.asp )

    To a large degree our whole economy is like a plane in that it has to keep moving. If it stops it crashes.
  145. @El Dato
    https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/489753-epa-suspends-enforcement-of-environmental-laws-amid-coronavirus

    Now is the time to dump your dioxin into the water well.

    Agent Orange Man Bad?

  146. @Barnard

    Dylan didn’t say exactly when the song was recorded, but his delicate vocal delivery resembles the way he’s been singing in his live shows in the past couple of years.
     
    Thanks to free tickets, I heard Dylan in concert over ten years ago and you could barely understand his "singing" then. This review, while meant to be positive, makes this 17 minute song sound like incoherent rambling. Like Joe Biden, Bob Dylan needs friends and family who are willing to tell him it is time to fade away.

    Like Joe Biden, Bob Dylan needs friends and family who are willing to tell him it is time to fade away.

    Given that they’ll inherit his estate, I imagine Dylan’s relatives are delighted he’s resurfacing this late in his career.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Dylan has a bit of mailbox money. I've seen his sprawling estate in Malibu. He owns a lot of properties all over the country.
  147. @Coemgen
    Is your friend in China in Wuhan?

    How do we explain the death by Acute Respiratory Syndrome of one of the most famous (in China at least) COVID-19 patients: Dr Li Wen Liang?

    He was thirty-six years old with apparently no underlying conditions that would increase his risk.

    My wife is a Chinese native who is fluent in Mandarin. She's kept me apprised of the WeChat/YouTube reports that have leaked out of Wuhan. When I ask her is there any "official" explanation of why Dr Li died she says the CCP refused him treatment. I say, in response, "in the West, someone in Dr Li's demographic would only experience `mild symptoms.'" She refuses to entertain that thought.

    He was murdered, obviously.

  148. @candid_observer
    OK, now it's serious:

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3077113/wuhan-doctors-plan-long-term-look-coronavirus-impact-male-sex

    File this under “NWO bioweapon evidence” drawer 5, Alfred.

  149. @anonymous

    Holy crap the globalists are moving hard to quash the hydroxychloroquine. It’s a war. First NY NV now Michigan when what they need asap is a massive flood of this medicine into Detroit!
     
    Shut... the fuck... UP!

    You're talking about a drug from the 1930's that, even if it's administered correctly, which isn't something we can take for granted, can give the recipient permanent heart and brain damage, if it doesn't kill them. Hysterical patients and family, demanding that the drug be administered, along with stressed out hospital staff, can manifest a lot of unnecessary deaths. Deaths that would then be attributed to the Coronavirus, further fouling up statistics.

    You’re talking about a drug from the 1930’s that, even if it’s administered correctly, which isn’t something we can take for granted, can give the recipient permanent heart and brain damage, if it doesn’t kill them. Hysterical patients and family, demanding that the drug be administered, along with stressed out hospital staff, can manifest a lot of unnecessary deaths.

    A drug so dangerous that young and old people worldwide tolerate daily use with no ill effect, and about which the CDC says:

    Hydroxychloroquine is a relatively well tolerated medicine. The most common adverse reactions reported are stomach pain, nausea, vomiting, and headache. These side effects can often be lessened by taking hydroxychloroquine with food. Hydroxychloroquine may also cause itching in some people.

    Source: https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/resources/pdf/fsp/drugs/hydroxychloroquine.pdf

    A drug so redolent of quackery that doctors across America are hoarding it to treat themselves and their families.

    Doctors are hoarding medications touted as possible coronavirus treatments by writing prescriptions for themselves and family members, according to pharmacy boards in states across the country.

    Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/business/doctors-buying-coronavirus-drugs.html

  150. @AnotherGuessModel
    Disease has always played a important role in shaping how we dress and groom ourselves, sometimes in very surprising ways.

    Disease has always played a important role in shaping how we dress and groom ourselves, sometimes in very surprising ways.

    AIDS seems to have killed the hanky codes.

  151. @Brian Reilly
    Who is to say (credibly) that Mr. Johnson would not have tested positive a month ago, or a year, or two? What is the false return rate (positive and negative) of this particular test and testing service? What reason is there to believe that a positive result necessarily or often precedes any significant illness?

    This whole thing is 90% well played scam, and 10% medical illness, infections, whatever. We are all being lied to and played so that the looting of the world can go on. The global debt default has to be worked out in a way that does not completely destroy the wealth of the billionaire class that is now running the world. They have to keep all their wealth and privilege, and the rubes (working class saps) have to be first distracted (the phase we are in now) from the looting going on, then lied to (a coincidental phase with distraction) so that they voluntarily give up their claim on property without getting all violent about it. That is the last phase, and will be signified by the government sending checks or making direct deposits to a class never before "bailed out". As soon as the first tranche of money (scrip, really) goes out, it will be impossible to avoid the last destruction of the old economic system. It was a badly gamed system that produced some unfortunate results, but it sure beat what is coming: Virtual and essential slavery for the lucky. Not tomorrow, but it will not be too long. The slaveowners will be corporations, not the massas that come to the American mind.

    This is the game. Watch carefully, everyone of any note at all is in on it. All the politicians, all be finance types, all the really rich folks, all the senior military commanders, all the media decision makers. The scripts are adjusted as needed, and the pace is furious. The stakes are immense for the scammers and their enablers. Failure means upheaval, a ruined world, and death for many of them.. If John Q. Public and all his cousins all over the world figure out how badly they have been getting f#*ked, and for how long this scam has been in development, the streets will run red. The prevention of a violent reaction to the theft, or the reckoning, or the default is what all this nonsense about Coronavirus® as an existential threat is about.

    Watch closely. This really is one for the ages. Are we (as a species) finally at the point where a huge appropriation of property and political sovereignty by the privileged few against the unwashed many can be accomplished without a big war? Are the propaganda and psy-ops fields so well developed and deployed that the masses can be persuaded to just peacefully give up things and ideals fought for and held dear? Trade all that for nothing more than than to allow a small group of people to run the entire world? A group who (if they succeed) will begin immediately to reduce the population of earth without a qualm?

    These are the stakes we masses face, pretend otherwise at great risk to yourself, your children, and your grandchildren. This is the real thing, right here. Be ready to show up when the time comes, and choose the side you support with care.

    Absolutely correct. It’s a diversion while the stealing takes place. The general impoverishment of society in general is going to be stunning.

    And now that they have confirmed – as they suspected all along – that they can make the rubes believe and do anything at all on even the most ludicrous of pretenses, who knows where this is going to end?

  152. @The Wild Geese Howard

    NYC health officials admitted today that 97% of the city’s deaths were among people with serious preexisting conditions and three-quarters of the dead were over 75 years old. This is a huge departure from the Narrative that everyone’s at risk of death
     
    Am I the only person that remembers Die Hard with a Vengeance (1995)?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mt5qE-CQAQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gifGQDvpaI

    Spelling out my point - more and more this smells like a huge misdirection play to take our money and our freedom.

    For the more cerebral, here is a summary of the Rockefeller Foundation's 2010 'Lock Step' pandemic scenario:

    https://www.sgtreport.com/2020/03/lock-step-2010-rockefeller-foundation-paper-laid-out-ominous-scenario-how-a-pandemic-could-be-used-to-lock-down-society-with-alarming-implications-for-our-post-pandemic-future/

    Supposedly that NY gold repository holds 7k tons of gold. That’s $365b today.

    Ft Knox has ~$250b worth. So this stimulus bill… is more than three times bigger than both of those put together.

    We’ve outrun our cultural references of “near infinite amount of money”.

  153. @Daniel Williams

    Like Joe Biden, Bob Dylan needs friends and family who are willing to tell him it is time to fade away.
     
    Given that they’ll inherit his estate, I imagine Dylan’s relatives are delighted he’s resurfacing this late in his career.

    Dylan has a bit of mailbox money. I’ve seen his sprawling estate in Malibu. He owns a lot of properties all over the country.

  154. @MikeCLT
    Or at least not shake hands with all the coronavirus patients in the hospital.

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/27/weeks-after-saying-i-shook-hands-everybody-hospital-boris-johnson-tests-positive

    Is it still OK to pussy-grab?

  155. Anon[343] • Disclaimer says:

    Here in Japan news shows have a big desk with half a dozen people, who are maskless and about 18 inches apart. Then the following show will be a travel show or restaurant review show or music concert review, activities that are for the foreseeable future not recommended. I realize a lot of stuff was shot in advance (but not that far in advance), but these kinds of shows should be spiked under the circumstances.

    During the earthquake/nuke crisis all television became 24/7 news for weeks, and all news shows that were not serious NHK-style news shows abruptly changed their presentation to conform. My wife commented that the pandemic is serious enough for that kind of approach: All pandemic, all the time.

    There is a lot of important information to get out that does not come through in simple reports of what politicians say. For instance, what does, “Stay inside except for important, time-critical tasks.” Watching news shows, people don’t know what this means and interpret it way too broadly. Very specific examples could be conveyed if television shows had to fill all their time with pandemic information.

  156. @Anonymous
    Gov Cuomo just admitted they dont need extra respirators in NY right now. WTF!!!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/brithume/status/1243683688535162885

    Just three days ago he came out screaming that the feds should release their whole stockpile of ventilators to NY.

    (https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2020/03/24/cuomo-to-trump-administration-you-pick-the-26k-people-who-are-going-to-die-1268833 )

    He apparently wants them in his warehouse vs. the feds’ warehouse.

    He’s literally hoarding ventilators.

    Now, he’s right that things are on an upswing still and they’ll need more, but his act went from “rousing call to arms” to panicky whining a good week ago now. I’m glad someone called him out.

    • Agree: Charon
    • Replies: @Charon

    Just three days ago he came out screaming that the feds should release their whole stockpile of ventilators to NY.
     
    As someone who lived in NY for several years, I can say this is absolutely consistent with everything I learned about New Yorkers. They will demand all of the ventilators in the country whether they need them or not, and the rest of America can go take a flying leap for all they care.

    I should hasten to add that I speak primarily of the people who live in (or were native to) the NYC region. Way upstate is much more like regular America.

  157. anon[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Holy crap the globalists are moving hard to quash the hydroxychloroquine. It's a war. First NY NV now Michigan when what they need asap is a massive flood of this medicine into Detroit!

    Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs warns that prescribing hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for treatment of COVID-19 ‘without further proof of efficacy’ may be investigated for administrative action...

    https://news.yahoo.com/michigan-governor-threatens-doctors-prescribe-024111454.html

    The governors are trying to limit use to er’s and hospitals for confirmed cases.

    Apparently this stuff was being hoarded. Supplies are limited at the moment. As soon as possible I would like to see this stuff used earlier in symptomatic cases. There are millions of doses on the way, but for now it would be unfortunate to see supplies run out.

    As far as the wording? I think this was put forward by the pharmacists.

  158. @Inquiring Mind
    Mr. Unz, are you trolling your own fine Web site?

    My unexpert guess is that the thing is highly contagious, most of have it as silent carriers, fortunately the people getting critically ill from it are a very small fraction, the progress of the epidemic is baked into the cake, the contact tracing thing only works with Ebola where there aren't silent carriers, there is really nothing we can do or should have done, and we will have to face up to what unfolds?

    I concur. I have the distinct feeling that when antibody tests are made widely available, the data will show that millions of Americans were infected. If 20 million were infected, and 20,000 die, that would mean a death rate of 0.1%, which if I am not mistaken, is the same as an average flu season. Those data are important so that rational decisions are made this fall and winter, and we do not tank the economy based on faulty data.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    Yes, I think so. Things are coming to a head now, and within a week, maybe ten days, like by Monday April 6th, so by the start of Holy Week, I think it will be pretty clear where this is going.

    By that time Florida, which has the oldest population of all states, and currently (3/27?20) is reporting 3054 cases with 46 deaths should have enough days of the epidemic under its belt to show whether this is a massive deadly epidemic or just something about as bad as the usual flu.

    I hope it is going to be the latter, and that in retrospect this massive effect on the economy and on life in America in general will be seen as the result of infectious disease physicians and elected politicians not really speaking the same language.

    If it does turn out that this is the Black Death redux, then we are all in for a very rough ride, perhaps for the rest of our lives.

    Either way, I expect that as a result there will be some changes made in America. This is a good time to be alive.
  159. @AnotherGuessModel
    It's not volunteerism, but handmade face masks (of assorted quality) appear to be selling well on Etsy. I really like your Dr. Seuss mask:) Best of luck on your venture, it's a good idea but largely a matter of luck if it takes off.
    https://www.etsy.com/search?q=face+mask&locationQuery=6252001

    It baffles me that folks like Karlin, Unz, et al, want to spend so much time arguing in comm boxes instead of encouraging a simple, cheap, and effective measure that people can make at home.

    It’s almost like this is all a game or sport to the doomers.

  160. I’ve often wondered about Johnson….the name Boris…..is he from some kinda Russian or Slavic background? Jewish perhaps?

    • Replies: @Smithsonian_6

    I’ve often wondered about Johnson….the name Boris…..is he from some kinda Russian or Slavic background? Jewish perhaps?
     
    Turkish apparently.
    , @anon
    He's a mix of French Jew, German [probably Jew] and Turk [probably Donmeh Jew]. The Johnson name is just made up.
  161. @Frank G
    Wearing masks is incompatible with free Western democratic society. We are a free people who aren't afraid of each other and don't need to be treated like kindergarteners.

    Tell that to Americans who voluntarily wore masks during all of Spanish flu, you utter fool.

  162. @BenKenobi
    Ever kiss a broad with lip injections? It's weird.

    It’s even weirder to kiss an old geezer with a moustache like Dr. Phil.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    He is happily married and has been damn near forever; I expect at that point love and affection are far past such shallow details. My wife could grow a mustache and I would remain devoted to her. This is the value of mating for life, which humans evolved to do and now fail to do to their detriment (and, worst of all – apropos of a primary driver for the evolved behaviour – to their children's detriment).
  163. @Charon
    Can you (or anyone) tell me why the airlines need tens of billions of dollars? The planes won't vanish. Just park them. The airports won't vaporize. The people won't disappear--they're getting unemployment compensation and extra money three different ways.

    Aside from trivial maintenance and startup costs, what's the deal? I wonder how many other businesses this might apply to.

    Because the modern corporations run on debt.

    The Debt-To-Equity Ratio in the Airline Industry

    The average D/E ratio of major companies in the U.S. airline industry is 115.62, which indicates that for every $1 of shareholders’ equity, the average company in the industry has $115.62 in total liabilities. The airline industry is a highly capital intensive sector and is often considered to have some of the highest D/E ratios.

    Airlines companies need to purchase planes, outfit those planes, pay for fuel, air hangars, flight simulators, repairs on planes, pilots, flight attendants, baggage handlers, and a multitude of other costs. It is not a surprise that their debt levels are high.

    The airline industry is a service industry that uses the income it generates to pay off its debt. This puts tremendous levels of strain on airline companies, as they are constantly under pressure to generate business, and therefore income, to continuously pay off their debt

    ( https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/061615/what-average-debtequity-ratio-airline-companies.asp )

    To a large degree our whole economy is like a plane in that it has to keep moving. If it stops it crashes.

    • Replies: @Charon
    Thanks. If we were a sane country rather than an enslaved one, we might one day consider what the Merchants of Debt hath wrought. It's not just the airline industry.
  164. @Frank G
    Wearing masks is incompatible with free Western democratic society. We are a free people who aren't afraid of each other and don't need to be treated like kindergarteners.

    Isn’t being quarantined in your home (like most Americans are) far more of being “treated like a kindergartener” than going about your normal business and social distancing with a mask?

  165. @Semperluctor
    I concur. I have the distinct feeling that when antibody tests are made widely available, the data will show that millions of Americans were infected. If 20 million were infected, and 20,000 die, that would mean a death rate of 0.1%, which if I am not mistaken, is the same as an average flu season. Those data are important so that rational decisions are made this fall and winter, and we do not tank the economy based on faulty data.

    Yes, I think so. Things are coming to a head now, and within a week, maybe ten days, like by Monday April 6th, so by the start of Holy Week, I think it will be pretty clear where this is going.

    By that time Florida, which has the oldest population of all states, and currently (3/27?20) is reporting 3054 cases with 46 deaths should have enough days of the epidemic under its belt to show whether this is a massive deadly epidemic or just something about as bad as the usual flu.

    I hope it is going to be the latter, and that in retrospect this massive effect on the economy and on life in America in general will be seen as the result of infectious disease physicians and elected politicians not really speaking the same language.

    If it does turn out that this is the Black Death redux, then we are all in for a very rough ride, perhaps for the rest of our lives.

    Either way, I expect that as a result there will be some changes made in America. This is a good time to be alive.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    One encouraging note is that today (Friday) Florida reported 50 less cases than yesterday,and the number of new cases dipped below 500. Since yesterday (Thursday) was the highest day so far, I will certainly be watching to see whether the number of new cases goes back over 500 in the next 4 days, or drops further down, which would be a very encouraging sign.

    Right now the worst affected area seems to be Broward County (Fort Lauderdale) where there have been 10 deaths, but the next worst affected county has only 5 deaths, and no other county more than 4 deaths.

    Jacksonville, which is a very large and poor city, has only 3 deaths so far out of 99 cases.

    The Florida dashboard seems to have changed today and the oldest, youngest, and average age of cases is now not shown.

    , @Kaz
    Florida also isn't dense at all, has great 'comfortable' (as far as respiratory sickness goes) weather, and people don't live together in multigenerational housing.

    I'm optimistic NYC is as bad as it gets because mass transit+packed like rats.
  166. @Michael W
    Politicians don't need to wear masks... just stop the damn handshaking. That's my own personal explanation (backed by zero data) for why covid19 hits men twice as hard as women.
    When you shake somebody's hand at a big pow-wow you're shaking the hands of the 10 previous guys he talked to .

    Me no shake-um hand.

    Haow.

  167. @anon
    Wow and I just come here because I don't have to sign in to comment.

    Too artsy-fartsy? And no, I didn’t learn everything I know about Hawaii from 5-0 reruns! Who told you that?

    I agree. That’s why I started commenting here to begin with.

  168. @BenKenobi

    the last years of the USSR
     
    Collapse of a sclerotic, decadent and corrupt old order, followed by a brief period of decline, eventually culminating in a nationalist strongman?

    LET'S DO IT.

    Collapse of a sclerotic, decadent and corrupt old order, followed by a brief period of decline, eventually culminating in a nationalist strongman?

    LET’S DO IT.

    The nationalist strongman might be a “civic nationalist” who is willing to sacrifice the well being of White people in order to make his dictatorship work.

    Fascists aren’t that good on race. All you need to be a good fascist is a stiff right arm. It gets your testosterone off but plays into the hands of anti-White civic nationalists.

  169. @Dieter Kief
    There is no freedom without insanity, Achmed.

    (This idea might be a proof for the necessity of God. Without him, you couldn't fill the (at times quite intimidating) gap that opens up in th heads of the knowledgeables in my first sentence.

    There is no freedom without insanity, Achmed.

    OK, then, I’m for it, then. I’d just like to keep it at a safe social distance.

    • LOL: Dieter Kief
  170. @Jonathan Mason
    Yes, I think so. Things are coming to a head now, and within a week, maybe ten days, like by Monday April 6th, so by the start of Holy Week, I think it will be pretty clear where this is going.

    By that time Florida, which has the oldest population of all states, and currently (3/27?20) is reporting 3054 cases with 46 deaths should have enough days of the epidemic under its belt to show whether this is a massive deadly epidemic or just something about as bad as the usual flu.

    I hope it is going to be the latter, and that in retrospect this massive effect on the economy and on life in America in general will be seen as the result of infectious disease physicians and elected politicians not really speaking the same language.

    If it does turn out that this is the Black Death redux, then we are all in for a very rough ride, perhaps for the rest of our lives.

    Either way, I expect that as a result there will be some changes made in America. This is a good time to be alive.

    One encouraging note is that today (Friday) Florida reported 50 less cases than yesterday,and the number of new cases dipped below 500. Since yesterday (Thursday) was the highest day so far, I will certainly be watching to see whether the number of new cases goes back over 500 in the next 4 days, or drops further down, which would be a very encouraging sign.

    Right now the worst affected area seems to be Broward County (Fort Lauderdale) where there have been 10 deaths, but the next worst affected county has only 5 deaths, and no other county more than 4 deaths.

    Jacksonville, which is a very large and poor city, has only 3 deaths so far out of 99 cases.

    The Florida dashboard seems to have changed today and the oldest, youngest, and average age of cases is now not shown.

    • Replies: @keypusher
    One encouraging note is that today (Friday) Florida reported 50 less cases than yesterday,and the number of new cases dipped below 500.

    What are you looking at? Worldometer says 714 new cases in Florida Friday.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
  171. @Kylie
    "I know a late GenX traitor who chose the Boomer worldview and he LOVES Dylan.:

    "Traitor" being the operative word here.

    A pox on him. So to speak.

    I agree with you on the performances, Kylie, but as far as the music itself, in whatever format, the young people have no choice. Their music just plain sucks ass. (I tried to put that as nicely as I could.)

    • Disagree: The Wild Geese Howard
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Their music just plain sucks ass.
     
    This may start to change:


    https://i.imgur.com/1piGmhf.png
  172. @El Dato
    https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/489753-epa-suspends-enforcement-of-environmental-laws-amid-coronavirus

    Now is the time to dump your dioxin into the water well.

  173. @Jonathan Mason
    Yes, I think so. Things are coming to a head now, and within a week, maybe ten days, like by Monday April 6th, so by the start of Holy Week, I think it will be pretty clear where this is going.

    By that time Florida, which has the oldest population of all states, and currently (3/27?20) is reporting 3054 cases with 46 deaths should have enough days of the epidemic under its belt to show whether this is a massive deadly epidemic or just something about as bad as the usual flu.

    I hope it is going to be the latter, and that in retrospect this massive effect on the economy and on life in America in general will be seen as the result of infectious disease physicians and elected politicians not really speaking the same language.

    If it does turn out that this is the Black Death redux, then we are all in for a very rough ride, perhaps for the rest of our lives.

    Either way, I expect that as a result there will be some changes made in America. This is a good time to be alive.

    Florida also isn’t dense at all, has great ‘comfortable’ (as far as respiratory sickness goes) weather, and people don’t live together in multigenerational housing.

    I’m optimistic NYC is as bad as it gets because mass transit+packed like rats.

  174. HA says:
    @AnotherGuessModel
    Disease has always played a important role in shaping how we dress and groom ourselves, sometimes in very surprising ways.

    “Disease has always played a important role in shaping how we dress and groom ourselves, sometimes in very surprising ways.”

    The infamous Hitler mustache was purely functional, in that (unlike the Nietzsche-esque handlebars he previously wore) it could accommodate a gas mask.

    I’m not a fan of either the man or the mustache, but given that context, it was a pretty radical fashion statement.

    • Replies: @AnotherGuessModel
    Male healthcare workers are being advised to shave their beards due to the virus, so I hope this ends the facial hair trend. Well, some men look just as good with beards or are even greatly improved by them, but too many guys who ought to stay clean-shaven have beards.
  175. In recent years I’ve only rarely visited Steve’s comment-threads, but over the last couple of weeks I’ve spent a great deal of time on the Coronavirus ones.

    I’ve gradually gotten the impression that something like half the regular commenters here are firm Coronavirus Hoaxers, who more or less believe “It’s Just the Flu!!!” Okay, maybe they’re correct and I’m just a gullible idiot.

    But I saw that New York had 140 Coronavirus deaths today, nearly triple the daily total of three or four days ago. At this rate, I think we’ll probably see 500-1000 daily NY deaths within a week or so. Not long afterward, the local health system will collapse, and deaths will then probably quadruple.

    It’s outside my expertise, but I’d think at some point the mere disposal of bodies will become a very serious practical problem. Maybe they’ll just toss thousands of them into a huge pile, pour gasoline, and set the whole thing on fire. I wonder if Hollywood will fly in a film crew to use the footage in future World War II atrocity films.

    Anyway, the big difference between arguing about Coronavirus and arguing about Global Warming is that we’ll only need to wait a couple of weeks to see who was right and who was wrong…

    • Replies: @epebble

    toss thousands of them into a huge pile, pour gasoline, and set the whole thing on fire.
     
    Italians are losing close to 1000 per day; they are taking caskets in military vehicles for cremation. I am sure we can be at least as dignified. After all, we have spent 50+ years preparing for MAD. Somebody would have thought of what to do after the D. BTW, we spend $20 millions per year to find human remains from Vietnam war.
    , @anon

    we’ll only need to wait a couple of weeks to see who was right and who was wrong…
     
    Bet you won't admit you were wrong. See this word? --> wRONg
    , @Jack D

    It’s outside my expertise, but I’d think at some point the mere disposal of bodies will become a very serious practical problem.
     
    Maybe it's outside YOUR area of expertise but this problem has already been extensively studied by certain German experts and you will be pleased to know that all of the technical problems have been overcome.
  176. @MikeCLT
    Or at least not shake hands with all the coronavirus patients in the hospital.

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/27/weeks-after-saying-i-shook-hands-everybody-hospital-boris-johnson-tests-positive

    He still has yet to beat Lyndon Johnson, who shook hands with a leper.

  177. Anonymous[326] • Disclaimer says:

    Thank you for being sensible. What do you make of the talk radio wing of Republicans who are pushing for a return to normalcy under abnormal and dangerous circumstances?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    We need to debate this question fully. There are huge costs with either path.

    I am thinking they aren't thinking about how bad everything gets when the hospitals overflow.

    , @Anon
    Anyone who thinks they have the right to tell people that they can't go out and work to earn money to BUY FOOD AND AVOID BECOMING HOMELESS is an evil person, full stop. You have absolutely no right to tell people they can't work.

    We have had so many epidemics before, and the whole world didn't need to come to a halt, because people weren't such giant pussies who bend over and take it whenever the globalists tell them to do so. We now have a situation where billions of people all over the world are being cruelly punished for no reason at all. It's bad enough to get a disease, now we have to punish those who are healthy too. There is no moral justification whatsoever for this level of oppression. I hope you end up homeless Anonymous selfish trash.

  178. @Anonymous
    Thank you for being sensible. What do you make of the talk radio wing of Republicans who are pushing for a return to normalcy under abnormal and dangerous circumstances?

    We need to debate this question fully. There are huge costs with either path.

    I am thinking they aren’t thinking about how bad everything gets when the hospitals overflow.

    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    #okboomer
    , @anonymous
    What people are going to find is lines going out the door of the emergency room, for a hundred yards.

    A few years ago, I dropped an employee (white) off at Harbor General hospital at 5 am in the morning. There was a line coming out of the emergency admittance office, out the door, and down the block. I said, "holy crap! what the hell's going on? And how come we're the only white people here?" He said, "it's always like this." The nurses told him that immigrant latino (mostly mexican) mom's take their kids into the emergency room even when they get a slight temperature. They think of the emergency room like we would think of a doctor's office, where we can drop in any time unannounced. And they're willing to wait in line all day for service. The doctor's tell them to stop doing it, they smile, nod their heads, and then show up again with the same non-emergency issues. Local press have never reported on this going on at Harbor General hospital. The place is out of control with illegal's demanding emergency ervices for years.

    So, that said, it's already a shitshow in the emergency rooms. Even in the rich areas, since when Margarita gets a fever, the rich white lady she nannies for will take her to the emergency room in Newport Beach. There's a lot of rich white ladies with a lot of illegal alien nannies and house help.

    I pray the open borders and sanctuary city proponents get corona virus, and find out in the emergency room, as they're fighting to breath, that the last respirator was assigned to an illegal alien. It will give them some alone time to reflect.

  179. @Jonathan Mason
    One encouraging note is that today (Friday) Florida reported 50 less cases than yesterday,and the number of new cases dipped below 500. Since yesterday (Thursday) was the highest day so far, I will certainly be watching to see whether the number of new cases goes back over 500 in the next 4 days, or drops further down, which would be a very encouraging sign.

    Right now the worst affected area seems to be Broward County (Fort Lauderdale) where there have been 10 deaths, but the next worst affected county has only 5 deaths, and no other county more than 4 deaths.

    Jacksonville, which is a very large and poor city, has only 3 deaths so far out of 99 cases.

    The Florida dashboard seems to have changed today and the oldest, youngest, and average age of cases is now not shown.

    One encouraging note is that today (Friday) Florida reported 50 less cases than yesterday,and the number of new cases dipped below 500.

    What are you looking at? Worldometer says 714 new cases in Florida Friday.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    I use the Florida Department of Health corona virus dashboard, which is updated 2x daily. This seems to me to be logically the most authoritative site for Florida corona virus numbers.

    http://www.floridahealth.gov/statistics-and-data/fl-dose/dashboard.html

    As I write on Saturday morning, it is still showing 497 cases added yesterday, Friday 27th March. There is a bar graph on the left side of the page, showing the daily additions.

    Of course, one must take into account that we don't know the exact amount of lag between taking of swabs and publication of results. That could even vary from county to county. We would certainly expect less swabs to be done on Sundays, when nearly all doctor's offices are closed, and it may be that the labs have different schedules for running tests and publishing results at weekends. Also the tests have only just been received and are still being ramped up. In another week or so we should have a fuller set of data to examine that would give more meaning to trendlines.
  180. @Che Blutarsky
    You can't eradicate evil, which means HRC will most likely survive all of this.

    Hildabeast is getting regular transfusions of virgin’s blood after which the virgins are sacrificed to Satan.

  181. @Anonymous
    Literally everyone should be mandated to wear masks and gloves in public.

    Politicians
    Police
    Postmen
    Truckers
    Grocery workers
    Office workers
    Shoppers

    EVERYONE

    garyoldman.gif

    “Literally everyone should be mandated to wear masks and gloves in public.”

    #okboomer

  182. @Steve Sailer
    We need to debate this question fully. There are huge costs with either path.

    I am thinking they aren't thinking about how bad everything gets when the hospitals overflow.

    #okboomer

  183. @Anonymous
    I was in a hospital yesterday for business. To get in I had to have my temperature taken, wipe my hands with foamy hand sanitizer, and be masked and gloves just to go down a public hallway and into a server room.

    Today, as with half the time I have to go into a krankenhaus, I’m off work with the sniffles and coughing. I know I’ll probably be fine Monday.

    But this reinforces my belief that women should only give birth in hospitals if they are genuinely high risk or run into complications. Of course in 2020 America a disproportionate number of births ARE genuinely high risk, but that’s another problem.

    So how does a woman in the process of giving birth get to the hospital? And how can serious injury or even death be prevented in the time she leaves her home, arrives at the hospital, and is given the treatment she and the baby need?

    Ever heard of placenta previa? It’s a deadly complication that happens after the birth. Or blood pressure soaring from a normal 110 120 to 250 in half an hour? Or shoulder presentation in which a baby cannot be born? Or the fact that a pregnant woman’s immune system goes way down during pregnancy which makes her extremely susceptible to serious infection and death if she gives birth in a non sterile environment?

    Before you post idiotic women hating comments maybe buy a medical school
    Obstetrics book.

    The misogynist women hating Men of UNZ never give up I see.

    Just insert “ I hate young women with tattoos”. “ I hate young women who rinse their hair pink and green” “ Woman presidents Vice Presidents senators congress men and judges passed the affirmative action laws and made the No White Men Need Apply court orders in 1968 and 1973 “
    “ I think childbirth should once again be unsafe for mothers and babies as it was for all of human history till about 100 years ago” “ I hate women I hate women I hate women I hate women” into any and all discussions.

    Misogynist impotent repressed gay loser women haters all of you women hating Men of UNZ.

    What a celebration you women haters will have when the quarantine is over and Kersey posts his next White woman killed by black Orcs article.

    • Replies: @vhrm
    Whatever your opinion of whether one should choose hospital delivery vs not, it's pretty clear that Anon is concerned that the hospital might be dangerous.
    Maybe he's right, and maybe he's wrong, but where do you get hate and misogyny out of that?
    , @Anonymous
    What nonsense.

    I do not advocate women should be forced to give birth in an environment they do not feel safe in, if it is reasonably predictable they are at substantial odds of needing hospital interventions or even just feel safer there (whether it really is or is not) then they should go to the hospital.

    Personally I think it is a trade off like all engineering decisions. If you are young, birthworthy and have no indications a problem is likely, you might have an unpredictable odd disaster and have been lucky to be in the hospital: by the same token you certainly will be exposed to bacteria and viruses you otherwise would not and the chance you will be subject to unneeded invasive procedures for malpractice avoidance or institutional convenience is vastly higher, which itself can cascade into a disaster.

    The only time a delivery is sterile, by the way, are when one of those known immune deficient “bubble babies” is delivered by C section into a sterile environment. It’s a huge production that needs substantial pre-planning, as when hip replacements are done. Normal delivery rooms have as many pathogens as your bedding at home, unless you’re a total slob: much worse, they’re different pathogens.

    I encourage people to do their own research and make up their own mind, but I am certain that in the US today, zero women are forced to give birth out of hospital who would prefer otherwise but that the reverse is fairly common. Home birth services are actually illegal only in Nebraska, but marginally available or effectively unavailable in much of the country.
  184. anonymous[118] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    We need to debate this question fully. There are huge costs with either path.

    I am thinking they aren't thinking about how bad everything gets when the hospitals overflow.

    What people are going to find is lines going out the door of the emergency room, for a hundred yards.

    A few years ago, I dropped an employee (white) off at Harbor General hospital at 5 am in the morning. There was a line coming out of the emergency admittance office, out the door, and down the block. I said, “holy crap! what the hell’s going on? And how come we’re the only white people here?” He said, “it’s always like this.” The nurses told him that immigrant latino (mostly mexican) mom’s take their kids into the emergency room even when they get a slight temperature. They think of the emergency room like we would think of a doctor’s office, where we can drop in any time unannounced. And they’re willing to wait in line all day for service. The doctor’s tell them to stop doing it, they smile, nod their heads, and then show up again with the same non-emergency issues. Local press have never reported on this going on at Harbor General hospital. The place is out of control with illegal’s demanding emergency ervices for years.

    So, that said, it’s already a shitshow in the emergency rooms. Even in the rich areas, since when Margarita gets a fever, the rich white lady she nannies for will take her to the emergency room in Newport Beach. There’s a lot of rich white ladies with a lot of illegal alien nannies and house help.

    I pray the open borders and sanctuary city proponents get corona virus, and find out in the emergency room, as they’re fighting to breath, that the last respirator was assigned to an illegal alien. It will give them some alone time to reflect.

    • Agree: Kolya Krassotkin
    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Autochthon

    They think of the emergency room like we would think of a doctor’s office, where we can drop in any time unannounced.
     
    Where the Hell is your physician's office? Pleasantville? Happy Valley? Walnut Grove? Candyland?

    Here in the real world, physician's require appointments. Sure, sometimes they are able and willing to accept an appointment with very little notice, or to "work one in" by permitting the patient to sit around the lobby until another patient does not keep his appointment or has an unexpectedly rapid visit, but physicians' offices are not hamburger stands.

    What the invaders are treating the hospital like is an urgent care clinic, and these are the facilities one should go to with minor gripes with no appointment needed. Such facilities, however, require proof of insurance or cash payments, and so of course, Consuela and Hector are off to County General, to do their part to bankrupt it and ensure Americans needing emergency services are screwed.
  185. Anon[368] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Thank you for being sensible. What do you make of the talk radio wing of Republicans who are pushing for a return to normalcy under abnormal and dangerous circumstances?

    Anyone who thinks they have the right to tell people that they can’t go out and work to earn money to BUY FOOD AND AVOID BECOMING HOMELESS is an evil person, full stop. You have absolutely no right to tell people they can’t work.

    We have had so many epidemics before, and the whole world didn’t need to come to a halt, because people weren’t such giant pussies who bend over and take it whenever the globalists tell them to do so. We now have a situation where billions of people all over the world are being cruelly punished for no reason at all. It’s bad enough to get a disease, now we have to punish those who are healthy too. There is no moral justification whatsoever for this level of oppression. I hope you end up homeless Anonymous selfish trash.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Imagine thinking being "allowed" to go back to living paycheck to paycheck while 10% of your known associates die an untimely death is some sort of boon.

    The government has the means to pay us all to stay home. The government has the ability to stop this meat-grinder of a disease, but that means containment.

    Libertarianism is a mental disorder and a loser's philosophy. Cooperation wins over individualism every time. The globalists are the ones who want *you back at work while they retreat to their luxury bunkers. Please shill for them less.
    , @Anonymous

    I hope you end up homeless Anonymous selfish trash.
     
    I'm not going to end up homeless because I would collect unemployment. You may want to live in a libertardian world where no one has any choice but non-stop wageslaving, that isn't out world. I hope you become dead, Anon[368]. You are a defective human being who deserves to be removed from the gene pool.
  186. anonymous[118] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve gradually gotten the impression that something like half the regular commenters here are firm Coronavirus Hoaxers, who more or less believe “It’s Just the Flu!!!” Okay, maybe they’re correct and I’m just a gullible idiot.

    I play it up the middle. Quarantine as it is in NYC, San Francisco, Chicago, etc. Everybody else is mandated to wear a full cover mask, tho it doesn’t have to be the high grade, and rubber gloves of some sort to be out and about. Reopen businesses, and ride the roller-coaster.

    We can’t just shut down major industries. The price of doing business is to take risks. Some people are going to lose. That’s the price for playing.

    Example: If given the power, I could personally reduce the number of dead children in American per year by 3000. All I have to do is lower the freeway speed limit to 35 mph. Who’s with me? Shall we do this, and save those poor children who would otherwise die in narly freeway accidents? No? Do you hate children? Or is it you worship the almighty dollar?

    Or… are 3000 dead children the price we’re willing to pay as a “cost of business,” ie, the effective transport of people, goods, and services?

    Answers please!

    Then take your reasoning, and move on to this virus management thing.

    And good luck, commenters. We’re all counting on you.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    That's not a bad analogy, but the problem is that we can predict pretty well how many children would be saved in any year by reducing freeway speed limits to 35.

    We are having major problems making reliable predictions for a novel pandemic.

    We ought to be getting better at forecasting day by day because no problem has ever focused the attention of the world like this one. It was only 3 weeks ago that the first in-depth study of the Wuhan data was put up as a preprint.

  187. @anonymous

    I’ve gradually gotten the impression that something like half the regular commenters here are firm Coronavirus Hoaxers, who more or less believe “It’s Just the Flu!!!” Okay, maybe they’re correct and I’m just a gullible idiot.
     
    I play it up the middle. Quarantine as it is in NYC, San Francisco, Chicago, etc. Everybody else is mandated to wear a full cover mask, tho it doesn't have to be the high grade, and rubber gloves of some sort to be out and about. Reopen businesses, and ride the roller-coaster.

    We can't just shut down major industries. The price of doing business is to take risks. Some people are going to lose. That's the price for playing.

    Example: If given the power, I could personally reduce the number of dead children in American per year by 3000. All I have to do is lower the freeway speed limit to 35 mph. Who's with me? Shall we do this, and save those poor children who would otherwise die in narly freeway accidents? No? Do you hate children? Or is it you worship the almighty dollar?

    Or... are 3000 dead children the price we're willing to pay as a "cost of business," ie, the effective transport of people, goods, and services?

    Answers please!

    Then take your reasoning, and move on to this virus management thing.

    And good luck, commenters. We're all counting on you.

    That’s not a bad analogy, but the problem is that we can predict pretty well how many children would be saved in any year by reducing freeway speed limits to 35.

    We are having major problems making reliable predictions for a novel pandemic.

    We ought to be getting better at forecasting day by day because no problem has ever focused the attention of the world like this one. It was only 3 weeks ago that the first in-depth study of the Wuhan data was put up as a preprint.

  188. @BB753
    It's even weirder to kiss an old geezer with a moustache like Dr. Phil.

    He is happily married and has been damn near forever; I expect at that point love and affection are far past such shallow details. My wife could grow a mustache and I would remain devoted to her. This is the value of mating for life, which humans evolved to do and now fail to do to their detriment (and, worst of all – apropos of a primary driver for the evolved behaviour – to their children’s detriment).

    • Replies: @BB753
    If you believe a rich man like Dr. Phil is faithful to his wife, you probably also believe in his phony new-agey psychology.
  189. @Inquiring Mind
    Mr. Unz, are you trolling your own fine Web site?

    My unexpert guess is that the thing is highly contagious, most of have it as silent carriers, fortunately the people getting critically ill from it are a very small fraction, the progress of the epidemic is baked into the cake, the contact tracing thing only works with Ebola where there aren't silent carriers, there is really nothing we can do or should have done, and we will have to face up to what unfolds?

    https://futurism.com/neoscope/half-coronavirus-carriers-no-symptoms

    Iceland has tested 3.4% of their country and half the positives show no symptoms:

    “Early results from deCode Genetics indicate that a low proportion of the general population has contracted the virus and that about half of those who tested positive are non-symptomatic,” said [Iceland’s chief epidemiologist Thorolfur] Guðnason. “The other half displays very moderate cold-like symptoms.”

  190. @vhrm
    Just three days ago he came out screaming that the feds should release their whole stockpile of ventilators to NY.

    (https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2020/03/24/cuomo-to-trump-administration-you-pick-the-26k-people-who-are-going-to-die-1268833 )

    He apparently wants them in his warehouse vs. the feds' warehouse.

    He's literally hoarding ventilators.

    Now, he's right that things are on an upswing still and they'll need more, but his act went from "rousing call to arms" to panicky whining a good week ago now. I'm glad someone called him out.

    Just three days ago he came out screaming that the feds should release their whole stockpile of ventilators to NY.

    As someone who lived in NY for several years, I can say this is absolutely consistent with everything I learned about New Yorkers. They will demand all of the ventilators in the country whether they need them or not, and the rest of America can go take a flying leap for all they care.

    I should hasten to add that I speak primarily of the people who live in (or were native to) the NYC region. Way upstate is much more like regular America.

    • Agree: vhrm, HammerJack
  191. @vhrm
    Because the modern corporations run on debt.

    The Debt-To-Equity Ratio in the Airline Industry

    The average D/E ratio of major companies in the U.S. airline industry is 115.62, which indicates that for every $1 of shareholders' equity, the average company in the industry has $115.62 in total liabilities. The airline industry is a highly capital intensive sector and is often considered to have some of the highest D/E ratios.

    Airlines companies need to purchase planes, outfit those planes, pay for fuel, air hangars, flight simulators, repairs on planes, pilots, flight attendants, baggage handlers, and a multitude of other costs. It is not a surprise that their debt levels are high.

    The airline industry is a service industry that uses the income it generates to pay off its debt. This puts tremendous levels of strain on airline companies, as they are constantly under pressure to generate business, and therefore income, to continuously pay off their debt
     
    ( https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/061615/what-average-debtequity-ratio-airline-companies.asp )

    To a large degree our whole economy is like a plane in that it has to keep moving. If it stops it crashes.

    Thanks. If we were a sane country rather than an enslaved one, we might one day consider what the Merchants of Debt hath wrought. It’s not just the airline industry.

  192. @Ron Unz
    In recent years I've only rarely visited Steve's comment-threads, but over the last couple of weeks I've spent a great deal of time on the Coronavirus ones.

    I've gradually gotten the impression that something like half the regular commenters here are firm Coronavirus Hoaxers, who more or less believe "It's Just the Flu!!!" Okay, maybe they're correct and I'm just a gullible idiot.

    But I saw that New York had 140 Coronavirus deaths today, nearly triple the daily total of three or four days ago. At this rate, I think we'll probably see 500-1000 daily NY deaths within a week or so. Not long afterward, the local health system will collapse, and deaths will then probably quadruple.

    It's outside my expertise, but I'd think at some point the mere disposal of bodies will become a very serious practical problem. Maybe they'll just toss thousands of them into a huge pile, pour gasoline, and set the whole thing on fire. I wonder if Hollywood will fly in a film crew to use the footage in future World War II atrocity films.

    Anyway, the big difference between arguing about Coronavirus and arguing about Global Warming is that we'll only need to wait a couple of weeks to see who was right and who was wrong...

    toss thousands of them into a huge pile, pour gasoline, and set the whole thing on fire.

    Italians are losing close to 1000 per day; they are taking caskets in military vehicles for cremation. I am sure we can be at least as dignified. After all, we have spent 50+ years preparing for MAD. Somebody would have thought of what to do after the D. BTW, we spend $20 millions per year to find human remains from Vietnam war.

  193. @Che Blutarsky
    You can't eradicate evil, which means HRC will most likely survive all of this.

    Cf: Angela Lansbury’s speech to her son Raymond in The Manchurian Candidate.

    “Rallying a nation of television-viewers into hysteria, to sweep us up into the White House with powers that will make martial law seem like anarchy.”

    That speech (and her performance overall) are alone worth the price of admission. I speak of the 1962 film, of course, not the remake which I notice Google features.

    • Agree: ChrisZ
  194. Anonymous[326] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    Anyone who thinks they have the right to tell people that they can't go out and work to earn money to BUY FOOD AND AVOID BECOMING HOMELESS is an evil person, full stop. You have absolutely no right to tell people they can't work.

    We have had so many epidemics before, and the whole world didn't need to come to a halt, because people weren't such giant pussies who bend over and take it whenever the globalists tell them to do so. We now have a situation where billions of people all over the world are being cruelly punished for no reason at all. It's bad enough to get a disease, now we have to punish those who are healthy too. There is no moral justification whatsoever for this level of oppression. I hope you end up homeless Anonymous selfish trash.

    Imagine thinking being “allowed” to go back to living paycheck to paycheck while 10% of your known associates die an untimely death is some sort of boon.

    The government has the means to pay us all to stay home. The government has the ability to stop this meat-grinder of a disease, but that means containment.

    Libertarianism is a mental disorder and a loser’s philosophy. Cooperation wins over individualism every time. The globalists are the ones who want *you back at work while they retreat to their luxury bunkers. Please shill for them less.

  195. @El Dato
    It's time to do something about the red tape by people in pseudo-charge.

    These people can probably willingly lend themselves to a bit of testing to advance quickly in ascertaining efficacy.

    Meanwhile, Government Motors and Ford State Industries are in a bit of a sweat:

    ‘Open your STUPIDLY abandoned plant’: Trump lashes out at GM & Ford over ventilator delay

    ‘Open your STUPIDLY abandoned plant’: Trump lashes out at GM & Ford over ventilator delay

    Swinging his Big Dick makes good theater, but means nothing to produce a sophisticated medical electronics device that has to be used for life saving. GM & Ford can barely produce cars that people want to buy, after being in that business for over 100 years. Where will they get the expertise to make a product that needs advanced bio-compatible material science, complex computer control with software, extreme reliability and precision? Also, why does he not ask Toyota and Honda who have plants here and are known for making high quality products? What about IBM and Intel?

    • Replies: @anon
    Where will they get the expertise to make a product that needs advanced bio-compatible material science, complex computer control with software, extreme reliability and precision

    Since you asked: Kokomo, Indiana just for a start. In beyootiful, Deplorable-filled flyover country.

    https://www.kokomotribune.com/news/local_news/update-gm-recalls-workers-to-build-ventilators-at-kokomo-plant/article_b6165db2-7062-11ea-889e-abc4f7bf48e5.html

    Paying $16.67 / hour starting, by the way.
  196. anonymous[118] • Disclaimer says:

    That’s not a bad analogy, but the problem is that we can predict pretty well how many children would be saved in any year by reducing freeway speed limits to 35.

    We are having major problems making reliable predictions for a novel pandemic.

    We ought to be getting better at forecasting day by day because no problem has ever focused the attention of the world like this one. It was only 3 weeks ago that the first in-depth study of the Wuhan data was put up as a preprint.

    Agreed, but the highway death problem is a controlled study, while the coronavirus is dynamic. Constant new variables being introduced.

    We can’t control for significant variables related to the virus at this stage, since different cultures, even within communities, are coping with it differently, and acquiring data differently. All we can do now is manifest a defense position, while acknowledging that we can’t all just stop working, unless we begin a movement for bio farming in our living rooms, and paying taxes based on the honor system.

    I’m not discounting your approach, but as dynamic data is gathered, we can’t just shut down commerce.

    That said, I recall another commenter speaking about this general panic. He was a trucker, and said our worry was misplaced, that as long as trucking and isn’t being hampered, we’re all good. If trucker’s start balking, that’s when it’s time for well-founded panic. I would add that if banks start locking their doors, or even putting severe restrictions on ATM withdrawals, we’re going to be living in an entirely different country, and many of us won’t like what we see.

    Right here, right now, we need to work with what we have, line up the best defense we can conceive of and initiate, with a sharp eye on “the cost of doing business.”

    We can’t be carrying on like this, no matter how much money the Fed is printing to buy into the QQQ’s. After a while, nobody will pay attention. The market won’t care. They can pause the Nasdaq, and it won’t matter. The minute they flip the switch, the dumping will continue, until there’s nothing left to dump, and the Fed will be holding the bag. I know there’s a lot more to quantitative easing, but you get the general idea about money printing. If we hadn’t exported our production, we’d be in a lot better place right now, but we have to play with the hand we dealt ourselves.

    Businesses have to start running again. Shutting down what commerce we have-the service industry-is not sustainable. We need to “earn while we learn.”

    • Replies: @anonguy
    We are past worrying about trucks now. That is the thing about exponential events, the circumstances change faster than one can keep up. Worker refusals are completely baked in now and should be expected in any job that requires people to leave their home until the biosecurity hazards and precautions become clear and acceptable to workers.

    For instance, Detroit is having a hard time getting enough staff to come in to hand out takeout lunches for school kids. They started with 58 locations and were down to 17 within a day or two because of staff sickouts. Who knows where they are now.

    A big ratchet today - the US Navy pulled both of its carriers in the Pacific for up to a month for dealing with virus. The USA's ability to project power took a serious hit there and that was just today.

    I'd wager crew discontent is part of the issue, incidentally. Would you want to be on a ship now?

    This is probably the first time since USA started stationing carriers in Pacific, before WWII, that USA haven't had any carrier capability in the Pacific.

    On a much longer timeline, the Saudis shut down the Kaaba a couple of weeks back, the pilgrims no longer circling. By my understanding, this has been going on since before Islam, it was a tradition of pagan Arabs.
  197. @Alden
    So how does a woman in the process of giving birth get to the hospital? And how can serious injury or even death be prevented in the time she leaves her home, arrives at the hospital, and is given the treatment she and the baby need?

    Ever heard of placenta previa? It’s a deadly complication that happens after the birth. Or blood pressure soaring from a normal 110 120 to 250 in half an hour? Or shoulder presentation in which a baby cannot be born? Or the fact that a pregnant woman’s immune system goes way down during pregnancy which makes her extremely susceptible to serious infection and death if she gives birth in a non sterile environment?

    Before you post idiotic women hating comments maybe buy a medical school
    Obstetrics book.

    The misogynist women hating Men of UNZ never give up I see.

    Just insert “ I hate young women with tattoos”. “ I hate young women who rinse their hair pink and green” “ Woman presidents Vice Presidents senators congress men and judges passed the affirmative action laws and made the No White Men Need Apply court orders in 1968 and 1973 “
    “ I think childbirth should once again be unsafe for mothers and babies as it was for all of human history till about 100 years ago” “ I hate women I hate women I hate women I hate women” into any and all discussions.

    Misogynist impotent repressed gay loser women haters all of you women hating Men of UNZ.

    What a celebration you women haters will have when the quarantine is over and Kersey posts his next White woman killed by black Orcs article.

    Whatever your opinion of whether one should choose hospital delivery vs not, it’s pretty clear that Anon is concerned that the hospital might be dangerous.
    Maybe he’s right, and maybe he’s wrong, but where do you get hate and misogyny out of that?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I have to remind myself occasionally that by no means are all or most women as unhinged as Alden.

    Many experts, male and female, maybe even more female, such as all Midwives and many preparedness oriented health professionals believe that out of hospital deliveries are safe for pregnant women who are well selected by not being obese, too old at a first birth, not having diabetes, herpes, etc. and who have had good prenatal care. There are a few who legitimately disagree but most who are hostile to the idea have financial or power incentives involved.

    Overall the vast majority of mothers who have had their babies at home are happy with that decision. There have been a few disasters but many would not have had a better outcome in hospital.

    That said, the percentage of pregnant women who are inherently at high risk-that is to say, unbirthworthy-has never been higher than today. Obesity, diabetes, terrible muscle tone, substance use, venereal diseases and sheer age, often due to idiotic use of fertility treatments, are all huge factors. Obviously a 45 year old primagravida needs to be in the hospital. But she was an idiot for having a kid on purpose at 45. Especially a first one.
  198. @eD
    Inquiring mind, I have been aware of this since December due to reports of a friend in China and did a lot of research on it. And I'm completely at a loss as to the reaction.

    Taking the published reports at face value, this virus seemed to be both highly contagious but not very lethal (particularly not to healthy people). And this is how diseases work, particularly viruses, if they are too lethal they tend to kill their hosts which limits the ability to spread and vice versa. It also now appears to have been in the USA as far back as January and I myself may have had it then.

    Attempting quarantine measures with something both highly contagious and not that lethal is pointless at best, it will spread too easily for the measures to work and won't do sufficient damage to be worth them anyway.

    particularly viruses, if they are too lethal they tend to kill their hosts which limits the ability to spread and vice vers

    Tell that to smallpox. Tell that to myxomatosis; the rabbits will be relieved. Very lethal viruses can get very, very far, depending on how they behave before they kill you. Sars cov 2 could easily be orders of magnitude more lethal than it is and still take us by storm, so let’s hope no more lethal strains emerge. It has a relatively long incubation period, and the course of the disease itself is very protracted. Remember the Diamond Princess? Just last week those passengers racked up their latest fatality, bring the total deaths to 11, or 1.5%.

    Now the Diamond Princess outbreak was stopped by Japanese health authorities about 1/3 of the way through its progress, having infected <20% the passengers. They tested everyone and put all positives in hospital isolation. Would the CFR go up, or down, were the pandemic allowed to run its full course? For the cruise ship, it is hard to say. For the real world, the answer is easy: It would go way, way up, as would mortality from all other causes, because the high rate of critical cases jam hospitals. We know from Lombardy and now increasingly from New York that your hospitals are plunged into chaos as infections reach about 2% of the population.

    (Inb4 the asymptomatics posting: The Lombardy total infection I get from spot-checks undertaken, where they tested basically everyone in a town. From New York, you can work backwards from current fatalities to get a rough picture of the state of the outbreak a few weeks ago, and then march forward up the exponential curve. The same picture either way, and NY has about equivalent per capita hospital resources as Lombardy.)

    Sars2 is dangerous for two reasons and only two reasons: 1) r0 of 3; 2) very high percentage of critical cases require ventilators. 1) Ensures that a lot of people get Sars2 all at once, and 2) means you run out of ventilators. Notice how neither 1) nor 2) is about the fatality rate. At first this seems low, but it goes up when you run out of ways to help people dying from viral pneumonia breathe.

    As for January: No. If it was widespread in January, you would have had a screaming unmistakable signal in that your hospitals would have been swamped with bilateral pneumonia patients. The population susceptible to serious symptoms (including a great many young people) is not mysteriously sequestered from everyone else until the last moment.

    • Replies: @anonguy
    Excellent discussion.
  199. Here is something for you guys to keep in mind.

    No novel virus has ever been spread to every corner of the globe and demographic more swiftly and thoroughly than SARS-COV2 due to globalism being in its most advanced state now.

    Similarly, we are at peak population, so no human virus has also never had a bigger petri dish.

    So the external conditions for mutation have never been more favorable for a human virus.

    And not by a little, this is combinatorial stuff. One hears that coronaviruses are slower to mutate due to some transcription checking mechanism but who knows about that, so maybe that offsets somewhat the petri dish, but remember, it is, effectively, the largest one ever seen and by a really, really, really, long shot.

    So whatever you know today about this virus you should treat as provisional. Nobody even knows if you get any immunity, whether lasting or at all, after initial symptoms subside, that alone is a huge deal to be assuming for things like herd immunity.

    You guys need to be looking into Antibody Dependent Enhancement. This is a very real threat, even Fauci has now brought it up. It has been discussed for several months in the fever swamps and it seems that the vaccine work for SARS, eventually abandoned, indicated that that might have become an issue there had the work not been abandoned when SARS was eradicated.

    Dengue fever does this apparently.

    This is not tinfoil hat stuff and it is absolutely a worst case scenario. Upon reinfection, a virus recruits the antibodies generated from first infection and uses them against the host.

    A vaaccine can make things worse, as Fauci noted.

    The potential of this being a factor should be in your calculations.

    There is also been some evidence of male fertility issues as a consequence along with other organ damage.

    You shouldn’t be assuming that this stuff is like a cold, when you get over the symptoms you are done with this. There is no evidence to support that at this time, it is strictly an inheritance from the flu framing template that people tend to use for this disease to help make sense of it for yourself.

    Anyhow, there is no evidence to suggest that long term people aren’t going to have problems because there are no long term cases to proof this. But there is emerging indications of various syndromes post initial symptoms, like ground glass opacity in lungs, that pretty much is proven.

    • Replies: @anonguy
    i would add to that that the long incubation period and asymptomatic/low symptomatic transmission also make the effective petri dish enormously bigger as it can spread widely undetected.

    It is a really nefarious situation.

    I discount the bioweapon stuff. It seemed somewhat credible in January simply by the instant massive response by the central government but other events and data downstream consistently pointed towards not a bioweapon.

    That being said, it may as well be a bioweapon in the way it has the potential to paralyze a society.

    Those least likely to display symptoms are the most likely to spread it, younger more active people, the initial cases, then it reaches the more vulnerable with less socializing, skiing, more likely to catch it later in the spread.

    Then those cases flood the healthcare system and society, shutting it all down.

    FWIW, I was once an interesting case and my doctor told me in med school they said you never want to be an interesting case.

    You can't do cost balancing stuff with this, even if it weren't morally reprehensible, because nobody knows what the costs and consequences of this disease are.

    There is only one task now, and that is understanding and defeating the threat. Part of that process will uncover knowledge about the disease so it can eventually be normalized and managed like other diseases if it is not eradicable.

    And all the cases are interesting, or relevant at least, data at this stage of a novel disease.

    My recommendation is, and has been, take every precaution in the coming days to avoid catching this. As Steve noted, the eyes of the world are on this, so more clarity will be coming rapidly, esp. if the western governments take the transparency route that has proven efficacy in SK, Taiwan, HK, Macao, Singapore, and now Japan is tightening up that sinch they've thrown in the towel on Olympics.

    , @Steve Sailer
    It's bad. How bad we don't yet know.
    , @Jack D

    There is also been some evidence of male fertility issues as a consequence along with other organ damage.
     
    Citations? The same is true of measles, mumps, etc. Today there are vaccines for these things but when I was a kid there weren't so I (and everyone else my age) got them and lived to tell about it with our manhood and organs intact. It's true that this is a novel virus but you are letting your imagination run wild. Chances are it is like most other viruses. A small % die, another small % percentage have permanent damage and most fully recover with no permanent effects.
  200. @Dieter Kief
    This would then be the ultimate moment of the American Pravda.

    (Son this ain't a dream no more, it's the real thing, B. Dylan - Senor - Tales of Yankee Power)

    This came out yesterday. Might serve as a play list for the locked-down.

    • Thanks: Dieter Kief
  201. @anonguy
    Here is something for you guys to keep in mind.

    No novel virus has ever been spread to every corner of the globe and demographic more swiftly and thoroughly than SARS-COV2 due to globalism being in its most advanced state now.

    Similarly, we are at peak population, so no human virus has also never had a bigger petri dish.

    So the external conditions for mutation have never been more favorable for a human virus.

    And not by a little, this is combinatorial stuff. One hears that coronaviruses are slower to mutate due to some transcription checking mechanism but who knows about that, so maybe that offsets somewhat the petri dish, but remember, it is, effectively, the largest one ever seen and by a really, really, really, long shot.

    So whatever you know today about this virus you should treat as provisional. Nobody even knows if you get any immunity, whether lasting or at all, after initial symptoms subside, that alone is a huge deal to be assuming for things like herd immunity.

    You guys need to be looking into Antibody Dependent Enhancement. This is a very real threat, even Fauci has now brought it up. It has been discussed for several months in the fever swamps and it seems that the vaccine work for SARS, eventually abandoned, indicated that that might have become an issue there had the work not been abandoned when SARS was eradicated.

    Dengue fever does this apparently.

    This is not tinfoil hat stuff and it is absolutely a worst case scenario. Upon reinfection, a virus recruits the antibodies generated from first infection and uses them against the host.

    A vaaccine can make things worse, as Fauci noted.

    The potential of this being a factor should be in your calculations.

    There is also been some evidence of male fertility issues as a consequence along with other organ damage.

    You shouldn't be assuming that this stuff is like a cold, when you get over the symptoms you are done with this. There is no evidence to support that at this time, it is strictly an inheritance from the flu framing template that people tend to use for this disease to help make sense of it for yourself.

    Anyhow, there is no evidence to suggest that long term people aren't going to have problems because there are no long term cases to proof this. But there is emerging indications of various syndromes post initial symptoms, like ground glass opacity in lungs, that pretty much is proven.

    i would add to that that the long incubation period and asymptomatic/low symptomatic transmission also make the effective petri dish enormously bigger as it can spread widely undetected.

    It is a really nefarious situation.

    I discount the bioweapon stuff. It seemed somewhat credible in January simply by the instant massive response by the central government but other events and data downstream consistently pointed towards not a bioweapon.

    That being said, it may as well be a bioweapon in the way it has the potential to paralyze a society.

    Those least likely to display symptoms are the most likely to spread it, younger more active people, the initial cases, then it reaches the more vulnerable with less socializing, skiing, more likely to catch it later in the spread.

    Then those cases flood the healthcare system and society, shutting it all down.

    FWIW, I was once an interesting case and my doctor told me in med school they said you never want to be an interesting case.

    You can’t do cost balancing stuff with this, even if it weren’t morally reprehensible, because nobody knows what the costs and consequences of this disease are.

    There is only one task now, and that is understanding and defeating the threat. Part of that process will uncover knowledge about the disease so it can eventually be normalized and managed like other diseases if it is not eradicable.

    And all the cases are interesting, or relevant at least, data at this stage of a novel disease.

    My recommendation is, and has been, take every precaution in the coming days to avoid catching this. As Steve noted, the eyes of the world are on this, so more clarity will be coming rapidly, esp. if the western governments take the transparency route that has proven efficacy in SK, Taiwan, HK, Macao, Singapore, and now Japan is tightening up that sinch they’ve thrown in the towel on Olympics.

  202. @Achmed E. Newman
    I agree with you on the performances, Kylie, but as far as the music itself, in whatever format, the young people have no choice. Their music just plain sucks ass. (I tried to put that as nicely as I could.)

    Their music just plain sucks ass.

    This may start to change:

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  203. @Michael W
    Politicians don't need to wear masks... just stop the damn handshaking. That's my own personal explanation (backed by zero data) for why covid19 hits men twice as hard as women.
    When you shake somebody's hand at a big pow-wow you're shaking the hands of the 10 previous guys he talked to .

    Alternative to handshake supplied by commenter Vigilante Jesus at Morgoth’s review

    • Replies: @captflee
    I have been using the Southron version (palm up) while barking out "morituri te salutant!", which has proved an outstanding method for making one's fellows back slowly away in fear and confusion. Good times!
    , @Joe Stalin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnISASAjbEE
    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    I thought this salute was pretty good:

    https://youtu.be/HW-C8KJ5Pr8?t=90
  204. Anonymous[379] • Disclaimer says:
    @BenKenobi

    the last years of the USSR
     
    Collapse of a sclerotic, decadent and corrupt old order, followed by a brief period of decline, eventually culminating in a nationalist strongman?

    LET'S DO IT.

    The US is likely to split into separate nations. Texas is an obvious candidate for the core of one such natin. The Northeast is another. The foreigners imported to the US to keep up the Democratic (urban) voting blocks will be important for some time, and will attempt to set up their own city based / ethnic states. How successful they will be is questionable — they generally can’t stand each other and in some cases have engaged in territorial warfare, and are incapable of running an autarkic industrial state.

    At best the US ends up with somebody like Putin who will make a new US out of available pieces. The old US cannot be recovered — what would it take for Texas to forget that the US Federal Government tried to make it Mexican? Or what would it take for Hispanic California to join a union that isn’t run by Mexicans? Or the Deep South to forget the recent second try at Reconstruction? Remember that halting a devolution of the USSR into civil warfare was not inevitable In fact, considering Ukraine’s present status, a devolution of sorts is still underway 30 years after the breakup.

    After a breakup, geopolitics within CONUS would start to manifest, and we could expect conflicts between the various successor states. Most obvious would be attempts by the Middle West to control the Mississippi River and regain control of its shipping hubs. Southern California, Mexico, and Texas would contend for water, The Northwest would continue its endless attempt to sell in the China market, the Empire State would attempt to dominate the Midwest’s shipping routes through the Great Lakes, etc. This would lead to hard feelings all around, and make a reassembly of the US unlikely.

    Quite likely most or all of the successor states would claim to be the real and legitimate US government, in the same way that the Europeans tried to revive the Roman Empire.

    Given a Putin figure, well, Putin has done fairly well. His nation is rather like a fish preserved in aspic. It doesn’t decay, or at least not very quickly, but it doesn’t expand as Imperial Russia did — Putin is holding it together. Maybe the next Russian generation will present something with more vitality. The US might end up the same way, but something would have to be done about the “Change America” people before any coherence could developed. A split looks more likely just now, if only because it’s more straightforward to cope with an enemy in a different political state than it is to cope with somebody claiming to “still belong” (to quote the song) but in fact resolutely hostile (e.g. the Squad, Biden, Sanders).

    Too bad. Not what I wanted at all.

  205. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    Seeing the site proprietor here on iSteve a lot lately has been kind of neat no matter how much or little I agree with him. It just brought up something I wanted to write, since Mr. Unz had commented a few months back that he wondered what all the fuss about the iSteve blog portion of unz.com is about. (Remember that?)

    A commenter yesterday or so refered to the unz site as an "island of sanity". I'd like to correct and add to that. The iSteve blog is part of an archipelago of sanity within a fairly insane big world of writers and commenters. Think of Godfree Roberts, his mad-imbecile act FB, and the sac-hangers like Biff, showmethereal, etc. (there are hundreds) as the Bolsheviks of old who have taken over most of the unz site. There are lots of writers I've read only once and seen the same old-fashioned Communism, Socialism, and other stupidity, as if this were 1917, and we'd still go for it. The Iron Curtain exists again, it's called [IGNORE] now.

    Now, Steve here has the BEST commenters writing on his threads. It's an oasis. Say, the commenters live on the Big Island of Hawaii. Steve, along with Jack D, AnotherDad, and dozens of others could be the Steve McGarretts, Danos, and Chin-Hoes on Oahu. You take a twin Otter to get out to some of the more far-flung islands of this archipelago to John Derbyshire, Audacious Epigone, Pat Buchanan, Ron Paul, and their usually sane commenters, with a side tour to the sometimes repetitive but courageous Paul Kersey.

    The thing is, you DON'T LEAVE THE ARCHIPELAGO of SANITY! If you do, at least Don't get off the fucking boat! The Roberts (both of them now) live as savages on far away islands that have never seen the outside world (OK, Thailand in the case of Godfree). There are dozens of others, living in their own island worlds, untouched by modern saneness. Disturb them at your own risk. (Ever seen The Green Inferno? - Part 2)

    Mr. Unz, you have been protected by your status as owner/operator and guy with the occasional bold wording. When you go back, you may realize what a dark savage cannibalistic world the rest of your site is.

    Still, I greatly respect your undying support for free speech. I'm not so sure about your undying respect for insanity.

    Your insecurity is showing.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Commie #1 chimes in. Hey, man, get off our archipelago! You've got the whole rest of unz. Book 'em, Dano.
  206. Anonymous[176] • Disclaimer says:
    @vhrm
    Whatever your opinion of whether one should choose hospital delivery vs not, it's pretty clear that Anon is concerned that the hospital might be dangerous.
    Maybe he's right, and maybe he's wrong, but where do you get hate and misogyny out of that?

    I have to remind myself occasionally that by no means are all or most women as unhinged as Alden.

    Many experts, male and female, maybe even more female, such as all Midwives and many preparedness oriented health professionals believe that out of hospital deliveries are safe for pregnant women who are well selected by not being obese, too old at a first birth, not having diabetes, herpes, etc. and who have had good prenatal care. There are a few who legitimately disagree but most who are hostile to the idea have financial or power incentives involved.

    Overall the vast majority of mothers who have had their babies at home are happy with that decision. There have been a few disasters but many would not have had a better outcome in hospital.

    That said, the percentage of pregnant women who are inherently at high risk-that is to say, unbirthworthy-has never been higher than today. Obesity, diabetes, terrible muscle tone, substance use, venereal diseases and sheer age, often due to idiotic use of fertility treatments, are all huge factors. Obviously a 45 year old primagravida needs to be in the hospital. But she was an idiot for having a kid on purpose at 45. Especially a first one.

  207. Anonymous[176] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden
    So how does a woman in the process of giving birth get to the hospital? And how can serious injury or even death be prevented in the time she leaves her home, arrives at the hospital, and is given the treatment she and the baby need?

    Ever heard of placenta previa? It’s a deadly complication that happens after the birth. Or blood pressure soaring from a normal 110 120 to 250 in half an hour? Or shoulder presentation in which a baby cannot be born? Or the fact that a pregnant woman’s immune system goes way down during pregnancy which makes her extremely susceptible to serious infection and death if she gives birth in a non sterile environment?

    Before you post idiotic women hating comments maybe buy a medical school
    Obstetrics book.

    The misogynist women hating Men of UNZ never give up I see.

    Just insert “ I hate young women with tattoos”. “ I hate young women who rinse their hair pink and green” “ Woman presidents Vice Presidents senators congress men and judges passed the affirmative action laws and made the No White Men Need Apply court orders in 1968 and 1973 “
    “ I think childbirth should once again be unsafe for mothers and babies as it was for all of human history till about 100 years ago” “ I hate women I hate women I hate women I hate women” into any and all discussions.

    Misogynist impotent repressed gay loser women haters all of you women hating Men of UNZ.

    What a celebration you women haters will have when the quarantine is over and Kersey posts his next White woman killed by black Orcs article.

    What nonsense.

    I do not advocate women should be forced to give birth in an environment they do not feel safe in, if it is reasonably predictable they are at substantial odds of needing hospital interventions or even just feel safer there (whether it really is or is not) then they should go to the hospital.

    Personally I think it is a trade off like all engineering decisions. If you are young, birthworthy and have no indications a problem is likely, you might have an unpredictable odd disaster and have been lucky to be in the hospital: by the same token you certainly will be exposed to bacteria and viruses you otherwise would not and the chance you will be subject to unneeded invasive procedures for malpractice avoidance or institutional convenience is vastly higher, which itself can cascade into a disaster.

    The only time a delivery is sterile, by the way, are when one of those known immune deficient “bubble babies” is delivered by C section into a sterile environment. It’s a huge production that needs substantial pre-planning, as when hip replacements are done. Normal delivery rooms have as many pathogens as your bedding at home, unless you’re a total slob: much worse, they’re different pathogens.

    I encourage people to do their own research and make up their own mind, but I am certain that in the US today, zero women are forced to give birth out of hospital who would prefer otherwise but that the reverse is fairly common. Home birth services are actually illegal only in Nebraska, but marginally available or effectively unavailable in much of the country.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Home births with midwives are a pretty good alternative to hospital births as long as you have a hospital nearby in case of emergency.
    , @Alden
    Buy a medical school obstetrics book before pontificating about things you know nothing about. “ Informed decisions” like all the ridiculous homeopathy, carrots cure cancer, vegan diets for babies, anti vaccinations and other garbage non medical ignoramuses blast all over the internet.
    It’s obvious you know nothing about childbirth and what can happen in the time between the midwife decides she /he can’t handle it and the mother is actually in the room at the hospital where she and the baby can be taken care of.

    It’s not an engineering decision. Engineers don’t deal with human beings. They make plans on paper and computers. They can leave the plans for days without harm.
    Find and read an obstetrics book. It’s obvious you know nothing about childbirth. After you’ve studied it and learn about what can go wrong then you will have real truthful medical information.
    Right now you sound like some new age neo hippie , vegan , hemp cloth wearing lesbian. They’re the idiots who advocate childbirth at home including herbs and charms, prayers to the Great Goddess and keeping the placenta for some Wicca ritual. That is if the placenta doesn’t tear and cause exsanguination also known as bleed to death before the ambulance comes.
  208. @Anonymous
    What nonsense.

    I do not advocate women should be forced to give birth in an environment they do not feel safe in, if it is reasonably predictable they are at substantial odds of needing hospital interventions or even just feel safer there (whether it really is or is not) then they should go to the hospital.

    Personally I think it is a trade off like all engineering decisions. If you are young, birthworthy and have no indications a problem is likely, you might have an unpredictable odd disaster and have been lucky to be in the hospital: by the same token you certainly will be exposed to bacteria and viruses you otherwise would not and the chance you will be subject to unneeded invasive procedures for malpractice avoidance or institutional convenience is vastly higher, which itself can cascade into a disaster.

    The only time a delivery is sterile, by the way, are when one of those known immune deficient “bubble babies” is delivered by C section into a sterile environment. It’s a huge production that needs substantial pre-planning, as when hip replacements are done. Normal delivery rooms have as many pathogens as your bedding at home, unless you’re a total slob: much worse, they’re different pathogens.

    I encourage people to do their own research and make up their own mind, but I am certain that in the US today, zero women are forced to give birth out of hospital who would prefer otherwise but that the reverse is fairly common. Home birth services are actually illegal only in Nebraska, but marginally available or effectively unavailable in much of the country.

    Home births with midwives are a pretty good alternative to hospital births as long as you have a hospital nearby in case of emergency.

    • Replies: @Alden
    Unless the mother and baby die on the way to the hospital. Buy a med school obstetrics book and learn about childbirth.
    , @Anonymous
    Generally that’s a requirement of reputable home birth programs. Along with reasonable maternal age and weight and reasonable conformation.

    Ironically, many home birthers at present actually are not the best candidates and many home birth midwives are not especially well trained, meaning the stats are not as good as they would be if the medical establishment were more cooperative. Unintended consequences and all that.
    , @donvonburg
    I was married to a libertarianness and she insisted on giving birth to our kids at home, and did so, it turned out fine but the reaction from her gyno was pretty venomous. That was the mid-80s and in the Midwest, it was "just not done" except among the Amish and Mennonites, and a few Christian Scientists, though even then Christian Science was almost dead and the number of practitioners of childbearing age was miniscule.

    Most medical professionals want nothing to do with home or alternative birthing centers for the simple reason that there is a minority, but very determined core of influential practitioners determined to run them out of practice if they do. The first time something goes wrong, there will be a license action and the usual suspects will be trotted out to testify that they were irresponsible and foolish and should be disciplined. They are motivated primarily by economics. Birth centers are revenue centers, steady cash cows that keep the hospital in the black financially and if you threaten that you are threatening people's livelihood. People with big notes on Cigarette boats and Beech Bonanzas, Dukes, Barons, King Airs, vacation houses, Lamborghinis. They are working seventy hour weeks but when they have time off they expect to use it in style.

    As Upton Sinclair noted, correctly, it is very difficult to get someone to understand something when their modus vivendi depends on their not understanding it.

    And, as the commenter said (we know each other, I respect his anonymity) the trend is that fewer and fewer obstetric patients even meet sane criteria for on-purpose out of hospital birth. Obesity, diabetes, terrible muscularity, advanced maternal age, and a high incidence of venereal diseases mean that probably half of births in America are clearly in the category of being obvious hospital only candidates. And those to whom the idea is attractive are often people you do not want in the program if good results are important to its success.
  209. @Anatoly Karlin
    BoJo is truly a Great Leader. He didn't just talk the "herd immunity" talk, but walked the walk, leading by example. Chad af!

    But you should see the man who pushed the Herd immunity solution running away like the proverbial scurrying Rat i.e. Dominic Cummings. LOl @ the cowardly Rat.

    https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/27/dominic-cummings-runs-downing-street-boris-gets-coronavirus-12467131/

    • Disagree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Cummings was probably late for yet another meeting, but it makes a funny meme.

    I'm glad they changed the herd strategy pretty quickly, because the jury is still out on whether you CAN develop immunity to this - see the above about reinfection in Wuhan.

    The UK seems to be putting all its ventilator eggs in Dyson's basket, another appliance manufacturer, GTech, who developed a simple prototype that didn't need mains electricity, have been told to stop working on it.

    Crime and hospital/GP visits by Joe Public are way down, although there are some break-ins at empty pubs. On the other hand, people are waiting for urgent cancer operations while the NHS reorganises itself for coronachan.

    Oh, and they still haven't got enough masks for NHS staff, let alone the general public. Some priority staff get them, others don't.

    Nearly every fish and chip takeaway in the country is closed, while Chinese, Indian, and dodgy chicken/pizza/grooming shops remain open.


    Sean - I think Rishi Sunak is Indian Brahmin, not Pakistani. He's married to the daughter of the Infosys billionaire. Winchester, Oxford, Goldman Sachs, he ticks all the globalist boxes.

  210. @Ron Unz
    In recent years I've only rarely visited Steve's comment-threads, but over the last couple of weeks I've spent a great deal of time on the Coronavirus ones.

    I've gradually gotten the impression that something like half the regular commenters here are firm Coronavirus Hoaxers, who more or less believe "It's Just the Flu!!!" Okay, maybe they're correct and I'm just a gullible idiot.

    But I saw that New York had 140 Coronavirus deaths today, nearly triple the daily total of three or four days ago. At this rate, I think we'll probably see 500-1000 daily NY deaths within a week or so. Not long afterward, the local health system will collapse, and deaths will then probably quadruple.

    It's outside my expertise, but I'd think at some point the mere disposal of bodies will become a very serious practical problem. Maybe they'll just toss thousands of them into a huge pile, pour gasoline, and set the whole thing on fire. I wonder if Hollywood will fly in a film crew to use the footage in future World War II atrocity films.

    Anyway, the big difference between arguing about Coronavirus and arguing about Global Warming is that we'll only need to wait a couple of weeks to see who was right and who was wrong...

    we’ll only need to wait a couple of weeks to see who was right and who was wrong…

    Bet you won’t admit you were wrong. See this word? –> wRONg

  211. @anonguy
    Here is something for you guys to keep in mind.

    No novel virus has ever been spread to every corner of the globe and demographic more swiftly and thoroughly than SARS-COV2 due to globalism being in its most advanced state now.

    Similarly, we are at peak population, so no human virus has also never had a bigger petri dish.

    So the external conditions for mutation have never been more favorable for a human virus.

    And not by a little, this is combinatorial stuff. One hears that coronaviruses are slower to mutate due to some transcription checking mechanism but who knows about that, so maybe that offsets somewhat the petri dish, but remember, it is, effectively, the largest one ever seen and by a really, really, really, long shot.

    So whatever you know today about this virus you should treat as provisional. Nobody even knows if you get any immunity, whether lasting or at all, after initial symptoms subside, that alone is a huge deal to be assuming for things like herd immunity.

    You guys need to be looking into Antibody Dependent Enhancement. This is a very real threat, even Fauci has now brought it up. It has been discussed for several months in the fever swamps and it seems that the vaccine work for SARS, eventually abandoned, indicated that that might have become an issue there had the work not been abandoned when SARS was eradicated.

    Dengue fever does this apparently.

    This is not tinfoil hat stuff and it is absolutely a worst case scenario. Upon reinfection, a virus recruits the antibodies generated from first infection and uses them against the host.

    A vaaccine can make things worse, as Fauci noted.

    The potential of this being a factor should be in your calculations.

    There is also been some evidence of male fertility issues as a consequence along with other organ damage.

    You shouldn't be assuming that this stuff is like a cold, when you get over the symptoms you are done with this. There is no evidence to support that at this time, it is strictly an inheritance from the flu framing template that people tend to use for this disease to help make sense of it for yourself.

    Anyhow, there is no evidence to suggest that long term people aren't going to have problems because there are no long term cases to proof this. But there is emerging indications of various syndromes post initial symptoms, like ground glass opacity in lungs, that pretty much is proven.

    It’s bad. How bad we don’t yet know.

    • Replies: @anonguy

    It’s bad. How bad we don’t yet know.
     
    Correct and there are few limits on how bad it could be.

    The only one observable now is that it doesn't, currently, kill at Black Death levels upon initial infection of previously never infected host.

    What happens thereafter, could be nothing, could be Mad Cow brain lesions, it is all unknown.

    This is stated objectively for understanding some parameters of the problem rather than doomerism or something. Simply it's all we know about prognosis currently, along with risk factors observed thus far for not surviving the initial infection in a previously uninfected host, that sort of thing.

    Early on, when China was the epicentre, there was a spate of videos of people dropping dead on the streets. The ADE (Antibody Dependent Enhancement) camp contended that these were cases of reinfection causing a more sudden health emergency somewhere in its progress.

    Again, though, another unknown, just conjecture at this point.

  212. @Wei
    It is likely that Trump and Pence have both received experimental Fort Detrick vaccines, probably in January. I would be surprised if POTUS does not preemptively receive vaccines for everything the Army can think of. It would only take a nation-state a few days with a handful of technicians and <50k reagent costs to culture a large enough dose for a meaningful inoculation in Vero cells. And of course the Army has access to volunteer test subjects.

    Suspicious Chinese straight out of Contagion. If Soderbergh had give a second starring role to Sasha Grey, she would have been a tremendous asset to the film. And it would have saved thousands of lives because men would have watched it. Apposite, considering that the whole thing was caused by Chinese males wanting to be stallion-men. In Contagion the ‘ America has a secret vaccine’ Chinese is portrayed as a sexless fellow who kidnaps a sexy French woman, there was a good build up but then it turns out because he is intent on saving orphans. This is the whole of the problem. The pangolin scale is an aphrodisiac, or so the Chinese seem to think.

    The disease is the result of a bat virus recombined with a virus from a pangolin making the chimera Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). In SARS-CoV-2, the Angiotensin Converting Enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor binding domain is from a pangolin, and that component of the chimerical virus is the key to how it so easily enters human cells to infect them. The original SARS-CoV was not nearly so easily transmitted. Yesterday Smuggled pangolins have been found to carry viruses closely related to the one sweeping the world. The most trafficked animal in the world is prized for its horny scales. They are keratin, as with rhino horn. So the West decimated because China is full of vain and foolish men. From now on, Westerners in China must leave the women alone and every male Chinese character in mass entertainment or worthy drama must be portrayed as a sexual Tyrannosaurus packing a whopper that women of all races are a pushover for. Only then will be safe from recondite wildlife viri recombination.
    —-
    In all countries the government prolly have had jabs against bacterial secondary infection, Merkel did. There is no vaccine, yet.
    ——
    Johnsons official deputy is Dominic Raab, but the rising star is Rishi Sunak. So there will be a Jewish then quite possibly Pakistani PM. Thank you masked man!

  213. @Steve Sailer
    Home births with midwives are a pretty good alternative to hospital births as long as you have a hospital nearby in case of emergency.

    Unless the mother and baby die on the way to the hospital. Buy a med school obstetrics book and learn about childbirth.

  214. @Anonymous
    What nonsense.

    I do not advocate women should be forced to give birth in an environment they do not feel safe in, if it is reasonably predictable they are at substantial odds of needing hospital interventions or even just feel safer there (whether it really is or is not) then they should go to the hospital.

    Personally I think it is a trade off like all engineering decisions. If you are young, birthworthy and have no indications a problem is likely, you might have an unpredictable odd disaster and have been lucky to be in the hospital: by the same token you certainly will be exposed to bacteria and viruses you otherwise would not and the chance you will be subject to unneeded invasive procedures for malpractice avoidance or institutional convenience is vastly higher, which itself can cascade into a disaster.

    The only time a delivery is sterile, by the way, are when one of those known immune deficient “bubble babies” is delivered by C section into a sterile environment. It’s a huge production that needs substantial pre-planning, as when hip replacements are done. Normal delivery rooms have as many pathogens as your bedding at home, unless you’re a total slob: much worse, they’re different pathogens.

    I encourage people to do their own research and make up their own mind, but I am certain that in the US today, zero women are forced to give birth out of hospital who would prefer otherwise but that the reverse is fairly common. Home birth services are actually illegal only in Nebraska, but marginally available or effectively unavailable in much of the country.

    Buy a medical school obstetrics book before pontificating about things you know nothing about. “ Informed decisions” like all the ridiculous homeopathy, carrots cure cancer, vegan diets for babies, anti vaccinations and other garbage non medical ignoramuses blast all over the internet.
    It’s obvious you know nothing about childbirth and what can happen in the time between the midwife decides she /he can’t handle it and the mother is actually in the room at the hospital where she and the baby can be taken care of.

    It’s not an engineering decision. Engineers don’t deal with human beings. They make plans on paper and computers. They can leave the plans for days without harm.
    Find and read an obstetrics book. It’s obvious you know nothing about childbirth. After you’ve studied it and learn about what can go wrong then you will have real truthful medical information.
    Right now you sound like some new age neo hippie , vegan , hemp cloth wearing lesbian. They’re the idiots who advocate childbirth at home including herbs and charms, prayers to the Great Goddess and keeping the placenta for some Wicca ritual. That is if the placenta doesn’t tear and cause exsanguination also known as bleed to death before the ambulance comes.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You could also bleed to death internally from a ruptured artery, just crossing the street, so you should never leave the hospital. Ever.

    But even then it probably still will kill you. So.....

    Engineers think about stuff like this. Doctors actually tend to be innumerate, like the interventional cardiologist who told me within the space of two minutes that dying on the cath table would be “ a one in a million” event and then it was “Ninety five percent safe”. My alternatives were go home and take more pills and probably have another event or an emergency open heart CABG for which I was a candidate, but not the best one. My father had had that and though he survived, said every day for the rest of his life he wished he’d died then. I went with the minimally invasive option, lost weight, excersize more, eat better, and am doing better now. I’ll never get a FAA medical again but I can live with that.

    But later I found out that the doctor’s second statement was pretty close-the odds I would have died from the procedure were, at my age and disease level, three to six percent. CABG would have been slightly safer, but the pain and disfigurement and months of recovery would have had to figure in.

    That’s the difference between rational risk assessment and the illusory pursuit of safety that doesn’t really exist. Life is not one hundred percent safe, but you rationally assess risks and act accordingly.
    , @anon
    Here's a few facts for you:
    My children were born at home and delivered by a hospital trained midwife. Her attitude was that my wife could have the baby at home, or at the hospital, it was up to her.
    Except in the case that the midwife's opinion was that the birth should occur in a hospital.
    This midwife had delivered 400 babies by this time and the only time she had insisted on a hospital birth was twins who were laying back to back and head to toe.
    Out of 400+ births, one was born dead and had been dead for some days the remainder were uneventful.
    Ratbags do give home birth a bad name, and I don't think that is unintentional.
    Do your homework before selecting a midwife.
    If she's a Social Justice Warrior with something to prove, look elsewhere
  215. @Autochthon
    He is happily married and has been damn near forever; I expect at that point love and affection are far past such shallow details. My wife could grow a mustache and I would remain devoted to her. This is the value of mating for life, which humans evolved to do and now fail to do to their detriment (and, worst of all – apropos of a primary driver for the evolved behaviour – to their children's detriment).

    If you believe a rich man like Dr. Phil is faithful to his wife, you probably also believe in his phony new-agey psychology.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PRJ5zBck0DI/VyCp8HhleqI/AAAAAAAAC7U/GWcifLJIy-QLoWbsQaBjlXgywFiq2sImQCLcB/s1600/Emperor%2BMarcus%2BAurelius.jpg



    https://theimaginativeconservative.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Tolkien.jpg

    https://moshpitsandmovies.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/christopher_lee1.jpg

    https://beyondthelies.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/billygraham.jpg
  216. @Grahamsno(G64)
    But you should see the man who pushed the Herd immunity solution running away like the proverbial scurrying Rat i.e. Dominic Cummings. LOl @ the cowardly Rat.

    https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/27/dominic-cummings-runs-downing-street-boris-gets-coronavirus-12467131/

    Cummings was probably late for yet another meeting, but it makes a funny meme.

    I’m glad they changed the herd strategy pretty quickly, because the jury is still out on whether you CAN develop immunity to this – see the above about reinfection in Wuhan.

    The UK seems to be putting all its ventilator eggs in Dyson’s basket, another appliance manufacturer, GTech, who developed a simple prototype that didn’t need mains electricity, have been told to stop working on it.

    Crime and hospital/GP visits by Joe Public are way down, although there are some break-ins at empty pubs. On the other hand, people are waiting for urgent cancer operations while the NHS reorganises itself for coronachan.

    Oh, and they still haven’t got enough masks for NHS staff, let alone the general public. Some priority staff get them, others don’t.

    Nearly every fish and chip takeaway in the country is closed, while Chinese, Indian, and dodgy chicken/pizza/grooming shops remain open.

    Sean – I think Rishi Sunak is Indian Brahmin, not Pakistani. He’s married to the daughter of the Infosys billionaire. Winchester, Oxford, Goldman Sachs, he ticks all the globalist boxes.

  217. @Steve Sailer
    It's bad. How bad we don't yet know.

    It’s bad. How bad we don’t yet know.

    Correct and there are few limits on how bad it could be.

    The only one observable now is that it doesn’t, currently, kill at Black Death levels upon initial infection of previously never infected host.

    What happens thereafter, could be nothing, could be Mad Cow brain lesions, it is all unknown.

    This is stated objectively for understanding some parameters of the problem rather than doomerism or something. Simply it’s all we know about prognosis currently, along with risk factors observed thus far for not surviving the initial infection in a previously uninfected host, that sort of thing.

    Early on, when China was the epicentre, there was a spate of videos of people dropping dead on the streets. The ADE (Antibody Dependent Enhancement) camp contended that these were cases of reinfection causing a more sudden health emergency somewhere in its progress.

    Again, though, another unknown, just conjecture at this point.

  218. @eugyppius

    particularly viruses, if they are too lethal they tend to kill their hosts which limits the ability to spread and vice vers
     
    Tell that to smallpox. Tell that to myxomatosis; the rabbits will be relieved. Very lethal viruses can get very, very far, depending on how they behave before they kill you. Sars cov 2 could easily be orders of magnitude more lethal than it is and still take us by storm, so let's hope no more lethal strains emerge. It has a relatively long incubation period, and the course of the disease itself is very protracted. Remember the Diamond Princess? Just last week those passengers racked up their latest fatality, bring the total deaths to 11, or 1.5%.

    Now the Diamond Princess outbreak was stopped by Japanese health authorities about 1/3 of the way through its progress, having infected <20% the passengers. They tested everyone and put all positives in hospital isolation. Would the CFR go up, or down, were the pandemic allowed to run its full course? For the cruise ship, it is hard to say. For the real world, the answer is easy: It would go way, way up, as would mortality from all other causes, because the high rate of critical cases jam hospitals. We know from Lombardy and now increasingly from New York that your hospitals are plunged into chaos as infections reach about 2% of the population.

    (Inb4 the asymptomatics posting: The Lombardy total infection I get from spot-checks undertaken, where they tested basically everyone in a town. From New York, you can work backwards from current fatalities to get a rough picture of the state of the outbreak a few weeks ago, and then march forward up the exponential curve. The same picture either way, and NY has about equivalent per capita hospital resources as Lombardy.)

    Sars2 is dangerous for two reasons and only two reasons: 1) r0 of 3; 2) very high percentage of critical cases require ventilators. 1) Ensures that a lot of people get Sars2 all at once, and 2) means you run out of ventilators. Notice how neither 1) nor 2) is about the fatality rate. At first this seems low, but it goes up when you run out of ways to help people dying from viral pneumonia breathe.

    As for January: No. If it was widespread in January, you would have had a screaming unmistakable signal in that your hospitals would have been swamped with bilateral pneumonia patients. The population susceptible to serious symptoms (including a great many young people) is not mysteriously sequestered from everyone else until the last moment.

    Excellent discussion.

  219. @anonymous
    Your insecurity is showing.

    Commie #1 chimes in. Hey, man, get off our archipelago! You’ve got the whole rest of unz. Book ’em, Dano.

  220. Anonymous[176] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Home births with midwives are a pretty good alternative to hospital births as long as you have a hospital nearby in case of emergency.

    Generally that’s a requirement of reputable home birth programs. Along with reasonable maternal age and weight and reasonable conformation.

    Ironically, many home birthers at present actually are not the best candidates and many home birth midwives are not especially well trained, meaning the stats are not as good as they would be if the medical establishment were more cooperative. Unintended consequences and all that.

  221. @anonymous

    That’s not a bad analogy, but the problem is that we can predict pretty well how many children would be saved in any year by reducing freeway speed limits to 35.

    We are having major problems making reliable predictions for a novel pandemic.

    We ought to be getting better at forecasting day by day because no problem has ever focused the attention of the world like this one. It was only 3 weeks ago that the first in-depth study of the Wuhan data was put up as a preprint.
     
    Agreed, but the highway death problem is a controlled study, while the coronavirus is dynamic. Constant new variables being introduced.

    We can't control for significant variables related to the virus at this stage, since different cultures, even within communities, are coping with it differently, and acquiring data differently. All we can do now is manifest a defense position, while acknowledging that we can't all just stop working, unless we begin a movement for bio farming in our living rooms, and paying taxes based on the honor system.

    I'm not discounting your approach, but as dynamic data is gathered, we can't just shut down commerce.

    That said, I recall another commenter speaking about this general panic. He was a trucker, and said our worry was misplaced, that as long as trucking and isn't being hampered, we're all good. If trucker's start balking, that's when it's time for well-founded panic. I would add that if banks start locking their doors, or even putting severe restrictions on ATM withdrawals, we're going to be living in an entirely different country, and many of us won't like what we see.

    Right here, right now, we need to work with what we have, line up the best defense we can conceive of and initiate, with a sharp eye on "the cost of doing business."

    We can't be carrying on like this, no matter how much money the Fed is printing to buy into the QQQ's. After a while, nobody will pay attention. The market won't care. They can pause the Nasdaq, and it won't matter. The minute they flip the switch, the dumping will continue, until there's nothing left to dump, and the Fed will be holding the bag. I know there's a lot more to quantitative easing, but you get the general idea about money printing. If we hadn't exported our production, we'd be in a lot better place right now, but we have to play with the hand we dealt ourselves.

    Businesses have to start running again. Shutting down what commerce we have-the service industry-is not sustainable. We need to "earn while we learn."

    We are past worrying about trucks now. That is the thing about exponential events, the circumstances change faster than one can keep up. Worker refusals are completely baked in now and should be expected in any job that requires people to leave their home until the biosecurity hazards and precautions become clear and acceptable to workers.

    For instance, Detroit is having a hard time getting enough staff to come in to hand out takeout lunches for school kids. They started with 58 locations and were down to 17 within a day or two because of staff sickouts. Who knows where they are now.

    A big ratchet today – the US Navy pulled both of its carriers in the Pacific for up to a month for dealing with virus. The USA’s ability to project power took a serious hit there and that was just today.

    I’d wager crew discontent is part of the issue, incidentally. Would you want to be on a ship now?

    This is probably the first time since USA started stationing carriers in Pacific, before WWII, that USA haven’t had any carrier capability in the Pacific.

    On a much longer timeline, the Saudis shut down the Kaaba a couple of weeks back, the pilgrims no longer circling. By my understanding, this has been going on since before Islam, it was a tradition of pagan Arabs.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    >That is the thing about exponential events, the circumstances change faster than one can keep up.

    Even societies who have responded decisively to the pandemic have their hands full because of how fast things are moving. Singapore has handled the coronavirus outbreak as well as anybody given its density and the amount of citizens who were in the PRC at the worst possible time in January. But even here, there are new outbreaks every day, largely among those returning from studying abroad. Mostly 20-somethings like me, so I think we can safely throw out the idea that only old people will seriously catch this.And this is a place where the government has taped crosses on public benches to ensure that people obey the social distancing measures and where the local biotech crowd is working full nights to produce a vaccine.

    So, yeah, not very optimistic about what is going to happen back in the States. As you've repeatedly pointed out, we don't know much about the long-term effects of this virus or whether surviving it grants immunity. Why can't they understand that? Basic morality aside, The Economy that all the talking heads are crying about is going to hurt a lot worse if their people are having their lungs shredded for years to come because they refused to deal with this properly now.

    >By my understanding, this has been going on since before Islam, it was a tradition of pagan Arabs.

    By the time of Muhammad, most Arabs in the Hijaz were some variant of monotheist as a result of centuries of contact with Roman civilization. We can't know for certain, but it is likely that Christian, Jewish, and pagan Arabs all came to the same shrines for the same festivities, leading to the conviction that Allah was the same deity they were worshipping. A lot of the pagan gods like al-Uzza were viewed as (female) angels by the monotheist Arabs and were worshipped, something that the Prophet screams bloody murder about in the Qu'ran.

  222. @keypusher
    One encouraging note is that today (Friday) Florida reported 50 less cases than yesterday,and the number of new cases dipped below 500.

    What are you looking at? Worldometer says 714 new cases in Florida Friday.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

    I use the Florida Department of Health corona virus dashboard, which is updated 2x daily. This seems to me to be logically the most authoritative site for Florida corona virus numbers.

    http://www.floridahealth.gov/statistics-and-data/fl-dose/dashboard.html

    As I write on Saturday morning, it is still showing 497 cases added yesterday, Friday 27th March. There is a bar graph on the left side of the page, showing the daily additions.

    Of course, one must take into account that we don’t know the exact amount of lag between taking of swabs and publication of results. That could even vary from county to county. We would certainly expect less swabs to be done on Sundays, when nearly all doctor’s offices are closed, and it may be that the labs have different schedules for running tests and publishing results at weekends. Also the tests have only just been received and are still being ramped up. In another week or so we should have a fuller set of data to examine that would give more meaning to trendlines.

  223. @Ron Unz
    In recent years I've only rarely visited Steve's comment-threads, but over the last couple of weeks I've spent a great deal of time on the Coronavirus ones.

    I've gradually gotten the impression that something like half the regular commenters here are firm Coronavirus Hoaxers, who more or less believe "It's Just the Flu!!!" Okay, maybe they're correct and I'm just a gullible idiot.

    But I saw that New York had 140 Coronavirus deaths today, nearly triple the daily total of three or four days ago. At this rate, I think we'll probably see 500-1000 daily NY deaths within a week or so. Not long afterward, the local health system will collapse, and deaths will then probably quadruple.

    It's outside my expertise, but I'd think at some point the mere disposal of bodies will become a very serious practical problem. Maybe they'll just toss thousands of them into a huge pile, pour gasoline, and set the whole thing on fire. I wonder if Hollywood will fly in a film crew to use the footage in future World War II atrocity films.

    Anyway, the big difference between arguing about Coronavirus and arguing about Global Warming is that we'll only need to wait a couple of weeks to see who was right and who was wrong...

    It’s outside my expertise, but I’d think at some point the mere disposal of bodies will become a very serious practical problem.

    Maybe it’s outside YOUR area of expertise but this problem has already been extensively studied by certain German experts and you will be pleased to know that all of the technical problems have been overcome.

    • Disagree: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Maybe it’s outside YOUR area of expertise but this problem has already been extensively studied by certain German experts and you will be pleased to know that all of the technical problems have been overcome.
     
    Actually one post-hoc explanation for the usage of certain crematoria in the vicinity of Krakow was that they were used for the hygienic disposal of bodies of residents that had died of typhus rather than for mass executions.

    The problem of large scale funeral services was also revisited by Haitian experts in the early months of 2010 after the massive earthquake and resolved by pooling the use of mechanical excavators to dig one big grave instead of digging lots of individual ones with spades. However one needs a geological study to make sure that groundwater is not affected.
    , @Ron Unz


    It’s outside my expertise, but I’d think at some point the mere disposal of bodies will become a very serious practical problem.
     
    Maybe it’s outside YOUR area of expertise but this problem has already been extensively studied by certain German experts and you will be pleased to know that all of the technical problems have been overcome.
     
    Well, I suspect within another week or two, we'll discover whether those powerful technologies of the past have been lost to modern science...
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    extensively studied by certain German experts
     

    all of the technical problems have been overcome
     
    Bergamo and Cake Boss BTFO !
  224. @Reg Cæsar

    They’re not getting as many trauma patients from car accidents...
     
    Which, in Chicago and Baltimore, lets them concentrate on the gunshot wounds.

    I was going to add New Orleans, but their facilities are under the strain of the Mardi Grippe.

    Bullets are effective from more than six feet. I wonder about London. If you're going to knive someone, you probably aren't concerned with "guidelines". But there are fewer victims out.

    Bullets are effective from more than six feet.

    If you hold your pistol sideways then you’d be lucky to hit your target at six feet.

  225. @anonguy
    Here is something for you guys to keep in mind.

    No novel virus has ever been spread to every corner of the globe and demographic more swiftly and thoroughly than SARS-COV2 due to globalism being in its most advanced state now.

    Similarly, we are at peak population, so no human virus has also never had a bigger petri dish.

    So the external conditions for mutation have never been more favorable for a human virus.

    And not by a little, this is combinatorial stuff. One hears that coronaviruses are slower to mutate due to some transcription checking mechanism but who knows about that, so maybe that offsets somewhat the petri dish, but remember, it is, effectively, the largest one ever seen and by a really, really, really, long shot.

    So whatever you know today about this virus you should treat as provisional. Nobody even knows if you get any immunity, whether lasting or at all, after initial symptoms subside, that alone is a huge deal to be assuming for things like herd immunity.

    You guys need to be looking into Antibody Dependent Enhancement. This is a very real threat, even Fauci has now brought it up. It has been discussed for several months in the fever swamps and it seems that the vaccine work for SARS, eventually abandoned, indicated that that might have become an issue there had the work not been abandoned when SARS was eradicated.

    Dengue fever does this apparently.

    This is not tinfoil hat stuff and it is absolutely a worst case scenario. Upon reinfection, a virus recruits the antibodies generated from first infection and uses them against the host.

    A vaaccine can make things worse, as Fauci noted.

    The potential of this being a factor should be in your calculations.

    There is also been some evidence of male fertility issues as a consequence along with other organ damage.

    You shouldn't be assuming that this stuff is like a cold, when you get over the symptoms you are done with this. There is no evidence to support that at this time, it is strictly an inheritance from the flu framing template that people tend to use for this disease to help make sense of it for yourself.

    Anyhow, there is no evidence to suggest that long term people aren't going to have problems because there are no long term cases to proof this. But there is emerging indications of various syndromes post initial symptoms, like ground glass opacity in lungs, that pretty much is proven.

    There is also been some evidence of male fertility issues as a consequence along with other organ damage.

    Citations? The same is true of measles, mumps, etc. Today there are vaccines for these things but when I was a kid there weren’t so I (and everyone else my age) got them and lived to tell about it with our manhood and organs intact. It’s true that this is a novel virus but you are letting your imagination run wild. Chances are it is like most other viruses. A small % die, another small % percentage have permanent damage and most fully recover with no permanent effects.

    • Replies: @anonguy
    You made a complete fool of yourself about three weeks ago deriding me then.

    Everything I mentioned then has long since came to be true, so you are back to get your clock cleaned again?

    Buzz off, pal. You're Limbaugh grade dittohead material.

    Remember, never argue with an idiot because people watching might not be able to tell the difference.

    That is a general rule. For you, specifically:

    It is hard to hear with your mouth open.

    , @anon
    The same is true of measles, mumps, etc. Today there are vaccines for these things but when I was a kid there weren’t so I (and everyone else my age) got them and lived to tell about it with our manhood and organs intact.

    Don't be retarded, learn to use a search engine like "Google".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumps

    Complications may include meningitis (15%), pancreatitis (4%), inflammation of the heart, permanent deafness, and testicular inflammation, which uncommonly results in infertility
     
    As for COVID -19 : the ACE-2 receptor is obviously involved. That receptor is present in the lungs and the heart and the reproductive tract. Effects on male reproduction are still unknown but some preliminary work in China suggests a possible problem. The first article in my search is from the Daily Mail.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8104477/Doctors-claim-new-coronavirus-cause-damage-mans-TESTICLES.html

    What was the first result from your search? Can you use "Google"?
  226. https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/03/ace2-how-researchers-think-coronavirus-attacks-cells-and-how-it-could-be-stopped.html
    Q: What is the theoretical relationship between ACE2 and COVID-19?

    A: SARS and the virus that causes COVID-19, SARS-CoV-2, are very similar in genetic makeup. Both have the spike that would connect to the receptor. That’s where the coronavirus gets its name; corona means crown in Latin, and the virus has crown-like spikes.

    Linda Saif, a virologist and distinguished university professor at Ohio State University, wrote in an email that several studies have reported that SARS CoV-2 has higher affinity for binding to ACE2 than SARS and this contributes to its more efficient transmission in humans.

    Much ACE-2 in the testis, nasal tissue is also rich in ACE-2. First symptom of COVID-19 is loss of smell.

    https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/lost-smell-and-taste-hint-covid-19-can-target-the-nervous-system-67312

    It affects neurons, and maybe the higher mental functions.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    It affects neurons, and maybe the higher mental functions.
     
    It's just like marihuana - it leads to permanent insanity! To impotence! And it gives you halitosis and cooties. It's a furniture polish! It's a salad dressing!

    The great about something that is unknown or unfamiliar is that you are completely free to let your imagination soar and attach your fantasies or nightmares to it without having to be constrained by anything like facts. Facts are like lead weights that bring your fantasies back down to the ground and as such are real bummers. It's much more fun in the early phase when you are free to wildly speculate.
  227. @Eonic
    Alternative to handshake supplied by commenter Vigilante Jesus at Morgoth's review https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d30fba09bbe434c5dd9824a7d065e0a0f501ea2ca6ec920ff0f1b849fd4607f1.jpg

    I have been using the Southron version (palm up) while barking out “morituri te salutant!”, which has proved an outstanding method for making one’s fellows back slowly away in fear and confusion. Good times!

  228. @Jack D

    It’s outside my expertise, but I’d think at some point the mere disposal of bodies will become a very serious practical problem.
     
    Maybe it's outside YOUR area of expertise but this problem has already been extensively studied by certain German experts and you will be pleased to know that all of the technical problems have been overcome.

    Maybe it’s outside YOUR area of expertise but this problem has already been extensively studied by certain German experts and you will be pleased to know that all of the technical problems have been overcome.

    Actually one post-hoc explanation for the usage of certain crematoria in the vicinity of Krakow was that they were used for the hygienic disposal of bodies of residents that had died of typhus rather than for mass executions.

    The problem of large scale funeral services was also revisited by Haitian experts in the early months of 2010 after the massive earthquake and resolved by pooling the use of mechanical excavators to dig one big grave instead of digging lots of individual ones with spades. However one needs a geological study to make sure that groundwater is not affected.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    Actually one post-hoc explanation for the usage of certain crematoria in the vicinity of Krakow was that they were used for the hygienic disposal of bodies of residents that had died of typhus rather than for mass executions.
     
    That's true. Another post-hoc explanation is that they were used for the hygienic disposal of the bodies of space aliens.
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    However one needs a geological study to make sure that groundwater is not affected.
     
    In Haiti? It would probably get better.
  229. @Eonic
    Alternative to handshake supplied by commenter Vigilante Jesus at Morgoth's review https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d30fba09bbe434c5dd9824a7d065e0a0f501ea2ca6ec920ff0f1b849fd4607f1.jpg

  230. @Jonathan Mason

    Maybe it’s outside YOUR area of expertise but this problem has already been extensively studied by certain German experts and you will be pleased to know that all of the technical problems have been overcome.
     
    Actually one post-hoc explanation for the usage of certain crematoria in the vicinity of Krakow was that they were used for the hygienic disposal of bodies of residents that had died of typhus rather than for mass executions.

    The problem of large scale funeral services was also revisited by Haitian experts in the early months of 2010 after the massive earthquake and resolved by pooling the use of mechanical excavators to dig one big grave instead of digging lots of individual ones with spades. However one needs a geological study to make sure that groundwater is not affected.

    Actually one post-hoc explanation for the usage of certain crematoria in the vicinity of Krakow was that they were used for the hygienic disposal of bodies of residents that had died of typhus rather than for mass executions.

    That’s true. Another post-hoc explanation is that they were used for the hygienic disposal of the bodies of space aliens.

  231. @Jonathan Mason

    Maybe it’s outside YOUR area of expertise but this problem has already been extensively studied by certain German experts and you will be pleased to know that all of the technical problems have been overcome.
     
    Actually one post-hoc explanation for the usage of certain crematoria in the vicinity of Krakow was that they were used for the hygienic disposal of bodies of residents that had died of typhus rather than for mass executions.

    The problem of large scale funeral services was also revisited by Haitian experts in the early months of 2010 after the massive earthquake and resolved by pooling the use of mechanical excavators to dig one big grave instead of digging lots of individual ones with spades. However one needs a geological study to make sure that groundwater is not affected.

    However one needs a geological study to make sure that groundwater is not affected.

    In Haiti? It would probably get better.

  232. Anonymous[791] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    Anyone who thinks they have the right to tell people that they can't go out and work to earn money to BUY FOOD AND AVOID BECOMING HOMELESS is an evil person, full stop. You have absolutely no right to tell people they can't work.

    We have had so many epidemics before, and the whole world didn't need to come to a halt, because people weren't such giant pussies who bend over and take it whenever the globalists tell them to do so. We now have a situation where billions of people all over the world are being cruelly punished for no reason at all. It's bad enough to get a disease, now we have to punish those who are healthy too. There is no moral justification whatsoever for this level of oppression. I hope you end up homeless Anonymous selfish trash.

    I hope you end up homeless Anonymous selfish trash.

    I’m not going to end up homeless because I would collect unemployment. You may want to live in a libertardian world where no one has any choice but non-stop wageslaving, that isn’t out world. I hope you become dead, Anon[368]. You are a defective human being who deserves to be removed from the gene pool.

  233. @Jack D

    It’s outside my expertise, but I’d think at some point the mere disposal of bodies will become a very serious practical problem.
     
    Maybe it's outside YOUR area of expertise but this problem has already been extensively studied by certain German experts and you will be pleased to know that all of the technical problems have been overcome.

    It’s outside my expertise, but I’d think at some point the mere disposal of bodies will become a very serious practical problem.

    Maybe it’s outside YOUR area of expertise but this problem has already been extensively studied by certain German experts and you will be pleased to know that all of the technical problems have been overcome.

    Well, I suspect within another week or two, we’ll discover whether those powerful technologies of the past have been lost to modern science…

  234. @Jack D

    There is also been some evidence of male fertility issues as a consequence along with other organ damage.
     
    Citations? The same is true of measles, mumps, etc. Today there are vaccines for these things but when I was a kid there weren't so I (and everyone else my age) got them and lived to tell about it with our manhood and organs intact. It's true that this is a novel virus but you are letting your imagination run wild. Chances are it is like most other viruses. A small % die, another small % percentage have permanent damage and most fully recover with no permanent effects.

    You made a complete fool of yourself about three weeks ago deriding me then.

    Everything I mentioned then has long since came to be true, so you are back to get your clock cleaned again?

    Buzz off, pal. You’re Limbaugh grade dittohead material.

    Remember, never argue with an idiot because people watching might not be able to tell the difference.

    That is a general rule. For you, specifically:

    It is hard to hear with your mouth open.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
  235. @Neoconned
    I've often wondered about Johnson....the name Boris.....is he from some kinda Russian or Slavic background? Jewish perhaps?

    I’ve often wondered about Johnson….the name Boris…..is he from some kinda Russian or Slavic background? Jewish perhaps?

    Turkish apparently.

  236. @HA
    "Disease has always played a important role in shaping how we dress and groom ourselves, sometimes in very surprising ways."

    The infamous Hitler mustache was purely functional, in that (unlike the Nietzsche-esque handlebars he previously wore) it could accommodate a gas mask.

    I'm not a fan of either the man or the mustache, but given that context, it was a pretty radical fashion statement.

    Male healthcare workers are being advised to shave their beards due to the virus, so I hope this ends the facial hair trend. Well, some men look just as good with beards or are even greatly improved by them, but too many guys who ought to stay clean-shaven have beards.

  237. @Sean

    https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/03/ace2-how-researchers-think-coronavirus-attacks-cells-and-how-it-could-be-stopped.html
    Q: What is the theoretical relationship between ACE2 and COVID-19?

    A: SARS and the virus that causes COVID-19, SARS-CoV-2, are very similar in genetic makeup. Both have the spike that would connect to the receptor. That’s where the coronavirus gets its name; corona means crown in Latin, and the virus has crown-like spikes.

    Linda Saif, a virologist and distinguished university professor at Ohio State University, wrote in an email that several studies have reported that SARS CoV-2 has higher affinity for binding to ACE2 than SARS and this contributes to its more efficient transmission in humans.
     

    Much ACE-2 in the testis, nasal tissue is also rich in ACE-2. First symptom of COVID-19 is loss of smell.

    https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/lost-smell-and-taste-hint-covid-19-can-target-the-nervous-system-67312

    It affects neurons, and maybe the higher mental functions.

    It affects neurons, and maybe the higher mental functions.

    It’s just like marihuana – it leads to permanent insanity! To impotence! And it gives you halitosis and cooties. It’s a furniture polish! It’s a salad dressing!

    The great about something that is unknown or unfamiliar is that you are completely free to let your imagination soar and attach your fantasies or nightmares to it without having to be constrained by anything like facts. Facts are like lead weights that bring your fantasies back down to the ground and as such are real bummers. It’s much more fun in the early phase when you are free to wildly speculate.

    • Replies: @anon
    It’s just like marihuana – it leads to permanent insanity! To impotence!

    Possibly ACE-2 receptors in nervous system could be affected, possibly not. We don't know. However one would expect an adult man with children to have some vague grasp of the difference between "erectile dysfunction" and "infertility". You could ask your urologist, or your son, or any high school student to explain it to you, Jack.

    Or, if you ever learn how to use Google, you could find out for yourself.

    And it gives you halitosis and cooties. It’s a furniture polish! It’s a salad dressing!

    Uh, Jack?

    The great about something that is unknown or unfamiliar is that you are completely free to let your imagination soar and attach your fantasies or nightmares to it without having to be constrained by anything like facts.

    Sure, Jack. Say, isn't that what you've been doing in this thread?

    Facts are like lead weights that bring your fantasies back down to the ground and as such are real bummers. It’s much more fun in the early phase when you are free to wildly speculate.

    Lol.
    Troll harder, Jack, this one isn't working very well. All you've done is show everyone how foolish you are.
  238. Anonymous[288] • Disclaimer says:
    @SafeNow
    “just stop the damn handshaking. That’s my own personal explanation (backed by zero data) for why covid19 hits men twice as hard as women.”

    True, I think, but I will add this personal theory. Loud talking. Loud, expressive talking could be a cofactor in why Italy had so many more infections than did the Germans, who have a lesser spritz. This could also be a cofactor in New York City.

    Germans shake hands all day long, men and women. It’s part of the culture. It’s considered just rude, boorish and uncivilized to not shake hands. Yet Germany has a low rate of infection.

  239. @Eonic
    Alternative to handshake supplied by commenter Vigilante Jesus at Morgoth's review https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d30fba09bbe434c5dd9824a7d065e0a0f501ea2ca6ec920ff0f1b849fd4607f1.jpg

    I thought this salute was pretty good:

  240. @MikeCLT
    Or at least not shake hands with all the coronavirus patients in the hospital.

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/27/weeks-after-saying-i-shook-hands-everybody-hospital-boris-johnson-tests-positive
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    A fish rots from the head. The best generals in history elicited their men's loyalty because they never asked them to do anything they themselves wouldn't do first.
  241. @Jack D

    It’s outside my expertise, but I’d think at some point the mere disposal of bodies will become a very serious practical problem.
     
    Maybe it's outside YOUR area of expertise but this problem has already been extensively studied by certain German experts and you will be pleased to know that all of the technical problems have been overcome.

    extensively studied by certain German experts

    all of the technical problems have been overcome

    Bergamo and Cake Boss BTFO !

  242. anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @epebble

    ‘Open your STUPIDLY abandoned plant’: Trump lashes out at GM & Ford over ventilator delay
     
    Swinging his Big Dick makes good theater, but means nothing to produce a sophisticated medical electronics device that has to be used for life saving. GM & Ford can barely produce cars that people want to buy, after being in that business for over 100 years. Where will they get the expertise to make a product that needs advanced bio-compatible material science, complex computer control with software, extreme reliability and precision? Also, why does he not ask Toyota and Honda who have plants here and are known for making high quality products? What about IBM and Intel?

    Where will they get the expertise to make a product that needs advanced bio-compatible material science, complex computer control with software, extreme reliability and precision

    Since you asked: Kokomo, Indiana just for a start. In beyootiful, Deplorable-filled flyover country.

    https://www.kokomotribune.com/news/local_news/update-gm-recalls-workers-to-build-ventilators-at-kokomo-plant/article_b6165db2-7062-11ea-889e-abc4f7bf48e5.html

    Paying $16.67 / hour starting, by the way.

  243. anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    There is also been some evidence of male fertility issues as a consequence along with other organ damage.
     
    Citations? The same is true of measles, mumps, etc. Today there are vaccines for these things but when I was a kid there weren't so I (and everyone else my age) got them and lived to tell about it with our manhood and organs intact. It's true that this is a novel virus but you are letting your imagination run wild. Chances are it is like most other viruses. A small % die, another small % percentage have permanent damage and most fully recover with no permanent effects.

    The same is true of measles, mumps, etc. Today there are vaccines for these things but when I was a kid there weren’t so I (and everyone else my age) got them and lived to tell about it with our manhood and organs intact.

    Don’t be retarded, learn to use a search engine like “Google”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumps

    Complications may include meningitis (15%), pancreatitis (4%), inflammation of the heart, permanent deafness, and testicular inflammation, which uncommonly results in infertility

    As for COVID -19 : the ACE-2 receptor is obviously involved. That receptor is present in the lungs and the heart and the reproductive tract. Effects on male reproduction are still unknown but some preliminary work in China suggests a possible problem. The first article in my search is from the Daily Mail.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8104477/Doctors-claim-new-coronavirus-cause-damage-mans-TESTICLES.html

    What was the first result from your search? Can you use “Google”?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Daily Mail is where I get ALL of my medical news. To hell with JAMA.

    That was my point. Common childhood diseases like mumps occasionally resulted in infertility (and even death) but life went on for most. It sucked if you were one of the unlucky ones but most people didn't get this side effect. At this point we have no idea what % of Covid survivors become permanently infertile but if I had to guess it is closer to 0% than it is to 100%.
  244. Anonymous[176] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden
    Buy a medical school obstetrics book before pontificating about things you know nothing about. “ Informed decisions” like all the ridiculous homeopathy, carrots cure cancer, vegan diets for babies, anti vaccinations and other garbage non medical ignoramuses blast all over the internet.
    It’s obvious you know nothing about childbirth and what can happen in the time between the midwife decides she /he can’t handle it and the mother is actually in the room at the hospital where she and the baby can be taken care of.

    It’s not an engineering decision. Engineers don’t deal with human beings. They make plans on paper and computers. They can leave the plans for days without harm.
    Find and read an obstetrics book. It’s obvious you know nothing about childbirth. After you’ve studied it and learn about what can go wrong then you will have real truthful medical information.
    Right now you sound like some new age neo hippie , vegan , hemp cloth wearing lesbian. They’re the idiots who advocate childbirth at home including herbs and charms, prayers to the Great Goddess and keeping the placenta for some Wicca ritual. That is if the placenta doesn’t tear and cause exsanguination also known as bleed to death before the ambulance comes.

    You could also bleed to death internally from a ruptured artery, just crossing the street, so you should never leave the hospital. Ever.

    But even then it probably still will kill you. So…..

    Engineers think about stuff like this. Doctors actually tend to be innumerate, like the interventional cardiologist who told me within the space of two minutes that dying on the cath table would be “ a one in a million” event and then it was “Ninety five percent safe”. My alternatives were go home and take more pills and probably have another event or an emergency open heart CABG for which I was a candidate, but not the best one. My father had had that and though he survived, said every day for the rest of his life he wished he’d died then. I went with the minimally invasive option, lost weight, excersize more, eat better, and am doing better now. I’ll never get a FAA medical again but I can live with that.

    But later I found out that the doctor’s second statement was pretty close-the odds I would have died from the procedure were, at my age and disease level, three to six percent. CABG would have been slightly safer, but the pain and disfigurement and months of recovery would have had to figure in.

    That’s the difference between rational risk assessment and the illusory pursuit of safety that doesn’t really exist. Life is not one hundred percent safe, but you rationally assess risks and act accordingly.

  245. @anon
    The same is true of measles, mumps, etc. Today there are vaccines for these things but when I was a kid there weren’t so I (and everyone else my age) got them and lived to tell about it with our manhood and organs intact.

    Don't be retarded, learn to use a search engine like "Google".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumps

    Complications may include meningitis (15%), pancreatitis (4%), inflammation of the heart, permanent deafness, and testicular inflammation, which uncommonly results in infertility
     
    As for COVID -19 : the ACE-2 receptor is obviously involved. That receptor is present in the lungs and the heart and the reproductive tract. Effects on male reproduction are still unknown but some preliminary work in China suggests a possible problem. The first article in my search is from the Daily Mail.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8104477/Doctors-claim-new-coronavirus-cause-damage-mans-TESTICLES.html

    What was the first result from your search? Can you use "Google"?

    Daily Mail is where I get ALL of my medical news. To hell with JAMA.

    That was my point. Common childhood diseases like mumps occasionally resulted in infertility (and even death) but life went on for most. It sucked if you were one of the unlucky ones but most people didn’t get this side effect. At this point we have no idea what % of Covid survivors become permanently infertile but if I had to guess it is closer to 0% than it is to 100%.

  246. anon[416] • Disclaimer says:

    Daily Mail is where I get ALL of my medical news. To hell with JAMA.

    It was the first result in a search. Again I ask you, what was your first search result?
    Perhaps you could try using reason instead of trolling with strawman fallacies this time?
    Or is using a search engine too difficult for you?

    That was my point. Common childhood diseases like mumps occasionally resulted in infertility (and even death) but life went on for most

    Backtracking but without the stones to admit you were wrong, again? Pathetic blustering on your part doesn’t prove anything about the real world, Jack.

    At this point we have no idea what % of Covid survivors become permanently infertile but if I had to guess it is closer to 0% than it is to 100%.

    That’s right, we have no idea. Even you have no idea. Therefore your scoffing is baseless bluster, from a position of ignorance. One of your more foolish habits, Jack. Perhaps it serves you well in the legal world? Eh, who cares.

    Despite the Earth-shattering announcement that “Famed medical researcher Jack D doesn’t believe it could happen!” there will be various medical researchers investigating the short and longer term effect of COVID-19 on the human reproductive system, and in time they will determine at least an estimate of risk. That will be a good thing to know, because there may be a short term treatment – just as the possible effects of mumps on post-puberty teenaged boys is a good thing to know – icebags can help with that.

    Then self-important Boomertard scoffers like you will claim “Hurr durr, we always knew that!”, and the rest of us will laugh, or sigh, or roll our eyes….and get on with reality.

    Maybe next time you should try thinking before publishing your comment, Jack? Even do a little fact-checking on your own, rather than expecting the rest of us to do it for you?

  247. @Anon
    Senator Lamar Alexander's daughter tested positive for Covid19. It is getting to some of our higher classes, obviously.
    I imagine chlorinique will be available for impotant people even if it isn't for us Joe Sixpacks.

    Im still hoping for a week of April 20th restart out here in the heartland, but that could be a good month optimistic. Pray and stay home as much as possible. Use kleneex to touch ATM keys and doors, wash hands before and after forays out. Wave or nod instead of shaking hands. Stay healthy Unz-ites.

    And the chloroquine stash in France disappeared? How odd and completely unforeseeable.

  248. @Steve Sailer
    Home births with midwives are a pretty good alternative to hospital births as long as you have a hospital nearby in case of emergency.

    I was married to a libertarianness and she insisted on giving birth to our kids at home, and did so, it turned out fine but the reaction from her gyno was pretty venomous. That was the mid-80s and in the Midwest, it was “just not done” except among the Amish and Mennonites, and a few Christian Scientists, though even then Christian Science was almost dead and the number of practitioners of childbearing age was miniscule.

    Most medical professionals want nothing to do with home or alternative birthing centers for the simple reason that there is a minority, but very determined core of influential practitioners determined to run them out of practice if they do. The first time something goes wrong, there will be a license action and the usual suspects will be trotted out to testify that they were irresponsible and foolish and should be disciplined. They are motivated primarily by economics. Birth centers are revenue centers, steady cash cows that keep the hospital in the black financially and if you threaten that you are threatening people’s livelihood. People with big notes on Cigarette boats and Beech Bonanzas, Dukes, Barons, King Airs, vacation houses, Lamborghinis. They are working seventy hour weeks but when they have time off they expect to use it in style.

    As Upton Sinclair noted, correctly, it is very difficult to get someone to understand something when their modus vivendi depends on their not understanding it.

    And, as the commenter said (we know each other, I respect his anonymity) the trend is that fewer and fewer obstetric patients even meet sane criteria for on-purpose out of hospital birth. Obesity, diabetes, terrible muscularity, advanced maternal age, and a high incidence of venereal diseases mean that probably half of births in America are clearly in the category of being obvious hospital only candidates. And those to whom the idea is attractive are often people you do not want in the program if good results are important to its success.

  249. anon[774] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    It affects neurons, and maybe the higher mental functions.
     
    It's just like marihuana - it leads to permanent insanity! To impotence! And it gives you halitosis and cooties. It's a furniture polish! It's a salad dressing!

    The great about something that is unknown or unfamiliar is that you are completely free to let your imagination soar and attach your fantasies or nightmares to it without having to be constrained by anything like facts. Facts are like lead weights that bring your fantasies back down to the ground and as such are real bummers. It's much more fun in the early phase when you are free to wildly speculate.

    It’s just like marihuana – it leads to permanent insanity! To impotence!

    Possibly ACE-2 receptors in nervous system could be affected, possibly not. We don’t know. However one would expect an adult man with children to have some vague grasp of the difference between “erectile dysfunction” and “infertility”. You could ask your urologist, or your son, or any high school student to explain it to you, Jack.

    Or, if you ever learn how to use Google, you could find out for yourself.

    And it gives you halitosis and cooties. It’s a furniture polish! It’s a salad dressing!

    Uh, Jack?

    The great about something that is unknown or unfamiliar is that you are completely free to let your imagination soar and attach your fantasies or nightmares to it without having to be constrained by anything like facts.

    Sure, Jack. Say, isn’t that what you’ve been doing in this thread?

    Facts are like lead weights that bring your fantasies back down to the ground and as such are real bummers. It’s much more fun in the early phase when you are free to wildly speculate.

    Lol.
    Troll harder, Jack, this one isn’t working very well. All you’ve done is show everyone how foolish you are.

  250. @Neoconned
    I've often wondered about Johnson....the name Boris.....is he from some kinda Russian or Slavic background? Jewish perhaps?

    He’s a mix of French Jew, German [probably Jew] and Turk [probably Donmeh Jew]. The Johnson name is just made up.

  251. anon[183] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden
    Buy a medical school obstetrics book before pontificating about things you know nothing about. “ Informed decisions” like all the ridiculous homeopathy, carrots cure cancer, vegan diets for babies, anti vaccinations and other garbage non medical ignoramuses blast all over the internet.
    It’s obvious you know nothing about childbirth and what can happen in the time between the midwife decides she /he can’t handle it and the mother is actually in the room at the hospital where she and the baby can be taken care of.

    It’s not an engineering decision. Engineers don’t deal with human beings. They make plans on paper and computers. They can leave the plans for days without harm.
    Find and read an obstetrics book. It’s obvious you know nothing about childbirth. After you’ve studied it and learn about what can go wrong then you will have real truthful medical information.
    Right now you sound like some new age neo hippie , vegan , hemp cloth wearing lesbian. They’re the idiots who advocate childbirth at home including herbs and charms, prayers to the Great Goddess and keeping the placenta for some Wicca ritual. That is if the placenta doesn’t tear and cause exsanguination also known as bleed to death before the ambulance comes.

    Here’s a few facts for you:
    My children were born at home and delivered by a hospital trained midwife. Her attitude was that my wife could have the baby at home, or at the hospital, it was up to her.
    Except in the case that the midwife’s opinion was that the birth should occur in a hospital.
    This midwife had delivered 400 babies by this time and the only time she had insisted on a hospital birth was twins who were laying back to back and head to toe.
    Out of 400+ births, one was born dead and had been dead for some days the remainder were uneventful.
    Ratbags do give home birth a bad name, and I don’t think that is unintentional.
    Do your homework before selecting a midwife.
    If she’s a Social Justice Warrior with something to prove, look elsewhere

  252. @anonguy
    We are past worrying about trucks now. That is the thing about exponential events, the circumstances change faster than one can keep up. Worker refusals are completely baked in now and should be expected in any job that requires people to leave their home until the biosecurity hazards and precautions become clear and acceptable to workers.

    For instance, Detroit is having a hard time getting enough staff to come in to hand out takeout lunches for school kids. They started with 58 locations and were down to 17 within a day or two because of staff sickouts. Who knows where they are now.

    A big ratchet today - the US Navy pulled both of its carriers in the Pacific for up to a month for dealing with virus. The USA's ability to project power took a serious hit there and that was just today.

    I'd wager crew discontent is part of the issue, incidentally. Would you want to be on a ship now?

    This is probably the first time since USA started stationing carriers in Pacific, before WWII, that USA haven't had any carrier capability in the Pacific.

    On a much longer timeline, the Saudis shut down the Kaaba a couple of weeks back, the pilgrims no longer circling. By my understanding, this has been going on since before Islam, it was a tradition of pagan Arabs.

    >That is the thing about exponential events, the circumstances change faster than one can keep up.

    Even societies who have responded decisively to the pandemic have their hands full because of how fast things are moving. Singapore has handled the coronavirus outbreak as well as anybody given its density and the amount of citizens who were in the PRC at the worst possible time in January. But even here, there are new outbreaks every day, largely among those returning from studying abroad. Mostly 20-somethings like me, so I think we can safely throw out the idea that only old people will seriously catch this.And this is a place where the government has taped crosses on public benches to ensure that people obey the social distancing measures and where the local biotech crowd is working full nights to produce a vaccine.

    So, yeah, not very optimistic about what is going to happen back in the States. As you’ve repeatedly pointed out, we don’t know much about the long-term effects of this virus or whether surviving it grants immunity. Why can’t they understand that? Basic morality aside, The Economy that all the talking heads are crying about is going to hurt a lot worse if their people are having their lungs shredded for years to come because they refused to deal with this properly now.

    >By my understanding, this has been going on since before Islam, it was a tradition of pagan Arabs.

    By the time of Muhammad, most Arabs in the Hijaz were some variant of monotheist as a result of centuries of contact with Roman civilization. We can’t know for certain, but it is likely that Christian, Jewish, and pagan Arabs all came to the same shrines for the same festivities, leading to the conviction that Allah was the same deity they were worshipping. A lot of the pagan gods like al-Uzza were viewed as (female) angels by the monotheist Arabs and were worshipped, something that the Prophet screams bloody murder about in the Qu’ran.

    • Replies: @anonguy
    South China Morning Post has been a good info resource, IMO.

    Westerners have no idea the measures that China, SK, HK, Taiwan, Macao, and probably now, Japan is getting onboard now that they have the IOC monkey off their back.

    They seem to think those places have done flu season stuff with maybe a little extra vigor as opposed to, well, you obviously know, the kind of rigor and compliance that is inconceivable in western places but mundane in East Asian societies.

    Americans are so drilled into their own filter bubbles those places may as well be different planets, kind of weird. But it is a one way thing, people in the east are not totally clueless about the west, at least IME.
  253. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/razibkhan/status/1243550265308930049

    A fish rots from the head. The best generals in history elicited their men’s loyalty because they never asked them to do anything they themselves wouldn’t do first.

  254. @anonymous
    What people are going to find is lines going out the door of the emergency room, for a hundred yards.

    A few years ago, I dropped an employee (white) off at Harbor General hospital at 5 am in the morning. There was a line coming out of the emergency admittance office, out the door, and down the block. I said, "holy crap! what the hell's going on? And how come we're the only white people here?" He said, "it's always like this." The nurses told him that immigrant latino (mostly mexican) mom's take their kids into the emergency room even when they get a slight temperature. They think of the emergency room like we would think of a doctor's office, where we can drop in any time unannounced. And they're willing to wait in line all day for service. The doctor's tell them to stop doing it, they smile, nod their heads, and then show up again with the same non-emergency issues. Local press have never reported on this going on at Harbor General hospital. The place is out of control with illegal's demanding emergency ervices for years.

    So, that said, it's already a shitshow in the emergency rooms. Even in the rich areas, since when Margarita gets a fever, the rich white lady she nannies for will take her to the emergency room in Newport Beach. There's a lot of rich white ladies with a lot of illegal alien nannies and house help.

    I pray the open borders and sanctuary city proponents get corona virus, and find out in the emergency room, as they're fighting to breath, that the last respirator was assigned to an illegal alien. It will give them some alone time to reflect.

    They think of the emergency room like we would think of a doctor’s office, where we can drop in any time unannounced.

    Where the Hell is your physician’s office? Pleasantville? Happy Valley? Walnut Grove? Candyland?

    Here in the real world, physician’s require appointments. Sure, sometimes they are able and willing to accept an appointment with very little notice, or to “work one in” by permitting the patient to sit around the lobby until another patient does not keep his appointment or has an unexpectedly rapid visit, but physicians’ offices are not hamburger stands.

    What the invaders are treating the hospital like is an urgent care clinic, and these are the facilities one should go to with minor gripes with no appointment needed. Such facilities, however, require proof of insurance or cash payments, and so of course, Consuela and Hector are off to County General, to do their part to bankrupt it and ensure Americans needing emergency services are screwed.

  255. @nebulafox
    >That is the thing about exponential events, the circumstances change faster than one can keep up.

    Even societies who have responded decisively to the pandemic have their hands full because of how fast things are moving. Singapore has handled the coronavirus outbreak as well as anybody given its density and the amount of citizens who were in the PRC at the worst possible time in January. But even here, there are new outbreaks every day, largely among those returning from studying abroad. Mostly 20-somethings like me, so I think we can safely throw out the idea that only old people will seriously catch this.And this is a place where the government has taped crosses on public benches to ensure that people obey the social distancing measures and where the local biotech crowd is working full nights to produce a vaccine.

    So, yeah, not very optimistic about what is going to happen back in the States. As you've repeatedly pointed out, we don't know much about the long-term effects of this virus or whether surviving it grants immunity. Why can't they understand that? Basic morality aside, The Economy that all the talking heads are crying about is going to hurt a lot worse if their people are having their lungs shredded for years to come because they refused to deal with this properly now.

    >By my understanding, this has been going on since before Islam, it was a tradition of pagan Arabs.

    By the time of Muhammad, most Arabs in the Hijaz were some variant of monotheist as a result of centuries of contact with Roman civilization. We can't know for certain, but it is likely that Christian, Jewish, and pagan Arabs all came to the same shrines for the same festivities, leading to the conviction that Allah was the same deity they were worshipping. A lot of the pagan gods like al-Uzza were viewed as (female) angels by the monotheist Arabs and were worshipped, something that the Prophet screams bloody murder about in the Qu'ran.

    South China Morning Post has been a good info resource, IMO.

    Westerners have no idea the measures that China, SK, HK, Taiwan, Macao, and probably now, Japan is getting onboard now that they have the IOC monkey off their back.

    They seem to think those places have done flu season stuff with maybe a little extra vigor as opposed to, well, you obviously know, the kind of rigor and compliance that is inconceivable in western places but mundane in East Asian societies.

    Americans are so drilled into their own filter bubbles those places may as well be different planets, kind of weird. But it is a one way thing, people in the east are not totally clueless about the west, at least IME.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    >Americans are so drilled into their own filter bubbles those places may as well be different planets, kind of weird. But it is a one way thing, people in the east are not totally clueless about the west, at least IME.

    America has been so overwhelmingly powerful and influential in the last 75 years that it is basically impossible to have access to modern media communications and not have some very high-level idea of what is going on in the States. Whereas you can live your entire life in the United States while easily not paying attention to anything that goes on outside of the borders: you don't have to, or at least you didn't have to until recently, and the Internet might provide a lot of information but that's dependent on the preferences and habits of the user.

    (Unfortunately, the comparison that pops up in mind is late Qing China, assuming that they'll be on top of the world forever and oblivious to the rapid developments of the world around them while they stagnate. There are other similarities: the overproduction of degrees for a limited supply of elite jobs being one of them. That leads to a culture of angry, resentful burnouts which begin to cause trouble when things go wrong socioeconomically.)

    Interestingly, on a regional level, I found that Brazil was quite similar in being "its own world". Other South Americans would intimately know what was going on in Brazil, but not the other way around. This doesn't seem to be a size thing: the old Tsarist Empire/the USSR was its own unique world, as is China. But limitations on learning about events outside your own borders in the relatively recent past in those countries were largely due to totalitarian psychopaths, not simple inertia.

  256. @BB753
    If you believe a rich man like Dr. Phil is faithful to his wife, you probably also believe in his phony new-agey psychology.

    [MORE]

  257. @anonguy
    South China Morning Post has been a good info resource, IMO.

    Westerners have no idea the measures that China, SK, HK, Taiwan, Macao, and probably now, Japan is getting onboard now that they have the IOC monkey off their back.

    They seem to think those places have done flu season stuff with maybe a little extra vigor as opposed to, well, you obviously know, the kind of rigor and compliance that is inconceivable in western places but mundane in East Asian societies.

    Americans are so drilled into their own filter bubbles those places may as well be different planets, kind of weird. But it is a one way thing, people in the east are not totally clueless about the west, at least IME.

    >Americans are so drilled into their own filter bubbles those places may as well be different planets, kind of weird. But it is a one way thing, people in the east are not totally clueless about the west, at least IME.

    America has been so overwhelmingly powerful and influential in the last 75 years that it is basically impossible to have access to modern media communications and not have some very high-level idea of what is going on in the States. Whereas you can live your entire life in the United States while easily not paying attention to anything that goes on outside of the borders: you don’t have to, or at least you didn’t have to until recently, and the Internet might provide a lot of information but that’s dependent on the preferences and habits of the user.

    (Unfortunately, the comparison that pops up in mind is late Qing China, assuming that they’ll be on top of the world forever and oblivious to the rapid developments of the world around them while they stagnate. There are other similarities: the overproduction of degrees for a limited supply of elite jobs being one of them. That leads to a culture of angry, resentful burnouts which begin to cause trouble when things go wrong socioeconomically.)

    Interestingly, on a regional level, I found that Brazil was quite similar in being “its own world”. Other South Americans would intimately know what was going on in Brazil, but not the other way around. This doesn’t seem to be a size thing: the old Tsarist Empire/the USSR was its own unique world, as is China. But limitations on learning about events outside your own borders in the relatively recent past in those countries were largely due to totalitarian psychopaths, not simple inertia.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    Unfortunately, the comparison that pops up in mind is late Qing China, assuming that they’ll be on top of the world forever and oblivious to the rapid developments of the world around them while they stagnate.
     
    I never got the impression that Qing dynasty China was the world leader in any technology at any point in its reign. Instead, it skated off the inventions of the West. Its vast population expansion from the moment of the dynasty's inception can be credited to its adoption of crops like the potato, sweet potato and corn from the Americas, all of which became staples or near staples in China. It's not so much that the population was lacking in ability. Octopus-like imperial monopolies, raids against wealthy merchants because of the regime's justified fear of the kinds of merchant princes who ultimately either toppled Europe's monarchies or reduced them to figureheads and a lack of patent protections for inventors meant that very few innovations came from within the Qing regime's borders.

    In fact, China today is probably the entity most similar to the Qing regime, except with different titles. As with the Qing, its progress is based completely on ripping off the best of the West. The only reason it has escaped the fate of Qing, so far, is its pitiless enforcement of the one-child rule, without which, thanks to decades of Marxist-Leninist economic central planning, the productive capacity of the average Chinese household would have been far outstripped by the family members to be fed. It's only now that many production decisions are left to the marketplace that China has gotten some breathing room from the specter of Malthus, and the one-child rule has been expanded to two.

    But many of the Qing regime's economic distortions remain, with an overwhelming state presence in significant sectors of the economy. That is the principal reason the Chinese economy is slowing at an earlier stage in its development before South Korea did. The Communist Party's dilemma is similar to the Qing's. If they let go of the economy, they risk losing political power. What will it profit any Chinese ruler to catch up to the West and lose his throne?
  258. One of the several factors that Brazil has is that it is essentially a language isolate.

    That helps, having a large enough population to support a lot of stuff in a language isolate.

    There is a reason the Romans wanted everyone to learn Latin and we can see in modern language ecology, there is more diversity of thought in language communities outside the Anglosphere.

    Japan gets a lot of miles out of it. They famously have their own context, but uncommonly, they are keenly aware of it and revel in it. Stuff about odd social stuff outside Japan is regular entertainment staple, from fluff to serious commentary.

    One thing about Japan is the toilets. They retain the water closet convention, the toilet is in a separate small room apart from bathing facilities.

    IME, Japanese abroad find having a toilet in your bathroom pretty gross, to put it impolitely, and even long term expats never fully reconcile themselves to this.

    Do any of them ever go back to Japan and fit out their bathrooms with toilets? No way, they are relieved to be back in civilization. Yuck . . . almost as bad as chamber pots.

    Try explaining something like that to an American, or even a westerner, when talking about sanitation, disease spread, or really, just apropos of nothing other than chat, and it is something totally outside of their ken.

    Google up anosognosia. At a base level, it is useful for dealing with those our system deems mentally ill, and specifically psychotic. That alone is a big deal.

    Once you understand this fully, and the best way to demonstrate this is in the field connecting with actual “schizophrenics”, then google up “anosognosia of daily life”.

    Helps you understand how to connect across filter bubbles, differing contexts, which is an enhanced problem of the information age where everyone gets to create their own subjective reality filter bubble.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Japanese abroad find having a toilet in your bathroom pretty gross, to put it impolitely
     
    It is gross.
  259. @anonguy
    One of the several factors that Brazil has is that it is essentially a language isolate.

    That helps, having a large enough population to support a lot of stuff in a language isolate.

    There is a reason the Romans wanted everyone to learn Latin and we can see in modern language ecology, there is more diversity of thought in language communities outside the Anglosphere.

    Japan gets a lot of miles out of it. They famously have their own context, but uncommonly, they are keenly aware of it and revel in it. Stuff about odd social stuff outside Japan is regular entertainment staple, from fluff to serious commentary.

    One thing about Japan is the toilets. They retain the water closet convention, the toilet is in a separate small room apart from bathing facilities.

    IME, Japanese abroad find having a toilet in your bathroom pretty gross, to put it impolitely, and even long term expats never fully reconcile themselves to this.

    Do any of them ever go back to Japan and fit out their bathrooms with toilets? No way, they are relieved to be back in civilization. Yuck . . . almost as bad as chamber pots.

    Try explaining something like that to an American, or even a westerner, when talking about sanitation, disease spread, or really, just apropos of nothing other than chat, and it is something totally outside of their ken.

    Google up anosognosia. At a base level, it is useful for dealing with those our system deems mentally ill, and specifically psychotic. That alone is a big deal.

    Once you understand this fully, and the best way to demonstrate this is in the field connecting with actual "schizophrenics", then google up "anosognosia of daily life".

    Helps you understand how to connect across filter bubbles, differing contexts, which is an enhanced problem of the information age where everyone gets to create their own subjective reality filter bubble.

    Japanese abroad find having a toilet in your bathroom pretty gross, to put it impolitely

    It is gross.

  260. @nebulafox
    >Americans are so drilled into their own filter bubbles those places may as well be different planets, kind of weird. But it is a one way thing, people in the east are not totally clueless about the west, at least IME.

    America has been so overwhelmingly powerful and influential in the last 75 years that it is basically impossible to have access to modern media communications and not have some very high-level idea of what is going on in the States. Whereas you can live your entire life in the United States while easily not paying attention to anything that goes on outside of the borders: you don't have to, or at least you didn't have to until recently, and the Internet might provide a lot of information but that's dependent on the preferences and habits of the user.

    (Unfortunately, the comparison that pops up in mind is late Qing China, assuming that they'll be on top of the world forever and oblivious to the rapid developments of the world around them while they stagnate. There are other similarities: the overproduction of degrees for a limited supply of elite jobs being one of them. That leads to a culture of angry, resentful burnouts which begin to cause trouble when things go wrong socioeconomically.)

    Interestingly, on a regional level, I found that Brazil was quite similar in being "its own world". Other South Americans would intimately know what was going on in Brazil, but not the other way around. This doesn't seem to be a size thing: the old Tsarist Empire/the USSR was its own unique world, as is China. But limitations on learning about events outside your own borders in the relatively recent past in those countries were largely due to totalitarian psychopaths, not simple inertia.

    Unfortunately, the comparison that pops up in mind is late Qing China, assuming that they’ll be on top of the world forever and oblivious to the rapid developments of the world around them while they stagnate.

    I never got the impression that Qing dynasty China was the world leader in any technology at any point in its reign. Instead, it skated off the inventions of the West. Its vast population expansion from the moment of the dynasty’s inception can be credited to its adoption of crops like the potato, sweet potato and corn from the Americas, all of which became staples or near staples in China. It’s not so much that the population was lacking in ability. Octopus-like imperial monopolies, raids against wealthy merchants because of the regime’s justified fear of the kinds of merchant princes who ultimately either toppled Europe’s monarchies or reduced them to figureheads and a lack of patent protections for inventors meant that very few innovations came from within the Qing regime’s borders.

    In fact, China today is probably the entity most similar to the Qing regime, except with different titles. As with the Qing, its progress is based completely on ripping off the best of the West. The only reason it has escaped the fate of Qing, so far, is its pitiless enforcement of the one-child rule, without which, thanks to decades of Marxist-Leninist economic central planning, the productive capacity of the average Chinese household would have been far outstripped by the family members to be fed. It’s only now that many production decisions are left to the marketplace that China has gotten some breathing room from the specter of Malthus, and the one-child rule has been expanded to two.

    But many of the Qing regime’s economic distortions remain, with an overwhelming state presence in significant sectors of the economy. That is the principal reason the Chinese economy is slowing at an earlier stage in its development before South Korea did. The Communist Party’s dilemma is similar to the Qing’s. If they let go of the economy, they risk losing political power. What will it profit any Chinese ruler to catch up to the West and lose his throne?

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