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Spotted Toad is back on Twitter:

About 40 years ago, I noticed that the single most common bit in the history of American movies was happy people listening to big band music on the radio on December 7, 1941 when they hear: “We interrupt this broadcast …”

I haven’t heard that in a long time.

 
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  1. (huge part of the civic religion when I was a kid)

    I mean, they made a big deal about it on the 70th anniversary too, not so long ago.

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
    @Altai

    Ten years ago really feels like a time, doesn't it?

    I remember dating a lot of those early intersectionalists and giving them hard times with various social, economic and historical scenarios.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    , @Jack D
    @Altai

    I think on the 70th anniversary there were still a bunch of guys alive who had been there but they knew that most of them wouldn't be around for the 80th. So this was like the last big hurrah. WWII vets are getting really thin on the ground.

    The last US WWI veteran died in 2011 so the last WWII vet will probably expire in the next 15 years or so.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @prosa123, @Hapalong Cassidy

    , @AndrewR
    @Altai

    That was before the Great Awokening.

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Altai

    BTW, there is a good WWII YouTube history channel that did a series of episodes, with an almost second-by-second breakdown of the Pearl Harbor attack, using archival footage and computer animation. It's pretty good. https://youtu.be/Joh2BXPsrXs?list=PLsIk0qF0R1j6ydMvoUBKj_WrnP4PtBlfk

  2. Pearl Harbor was the catalyst for (white) America to join WWII and win it.

    The media has no interest today in glorifying and memorializing the people who fought in the war and built America postwar. The heroes of the past are today’s domestic terrorist.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @American Citizen

    '...The media has no interest today in glorifying and memorializing the people who fought in the war and built America postwar. The heroes of the past are today’s domestic terrorist.'

    Indeed. Kyle Rittenhouse is exactly the kind of kid who was down there volunteering for the Marine Corps on the morning of December 8th.

    Replies: @Alrenous

    , @Moses
    @American Citizen

    I've said it before and I'll say it again -- Non-Whites do not care one iota for White American history. Not one bit.

    It's not their history. Why should they care about it?

    Replies: @JMcG, @Jack D, @Richard B

    , @JimDandy
    @American Citizen

    Pearl Harbor was bait. We provoked Japan into attacking us because FDR wanted into a war that the American people opposed. He had advanced knowledge of the attack, and chose to let it happen.

    When Kevin McCarthy said that no one voted for Biden to be FDR, Ocasio-Cortez shouted, "I did!" The current situation in the Ukraine indicates she might get exactly what she voted for.

  3. Another long-ago staple, at least in NYC, were reports of multiple Polo Grounds announcements at a football Giants game for military officers to report back to their headquarters!

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Dan Hayes


    Polo Grounds announcements at a football Giants game
     
    They were hosting the Brooklyn Dodgers.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

    , @Jack Armstrong
    @Dan Hayes

    True.

  4. @Altai

    (huge part of the civic religion when I was a kid)
     
    I mean, they made a big deal about it on the 70th anniversary too, not so long ago.

    Replies: @Boomthorkell, @Jack D, @AndrewR, @Hypnotoad666

    Ten years ago really feels like a time, doesn’t it?

    I remember dating a lot of those early intersectionalists and giving them hard times with various social, economic and historical scenarios.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Boomthorkell

    'I remember dating a lot of those early intersectionalists and giving them hard times with various social, economic and historical scenarios.'

    So did it work?

    Replies: @Boomthorkell

  5. This isn’t the same country as the one where that happened, Steve. It’s not the same country as the one that even cared about it for a long time – to me, probably the one during the 55th anniversary – mid 1990s – was nearly it.

    Then again, from that picture, the New York Times doesn’t look like it has anything to do with America anymore. They care about some foreign affairs that shouldn’t have anything to do with America, their latest narrative on what the world should keep panicking about, something local that will affect their staff but not likely the 184,000 business where English is probably not spoken and they hopefully don’t care what the new Mayor will mandate… oh, and, OK, got to prevent Texas from interfering in the election-theft process.

    Yeah, and “redraw” is not a noun.

    I did learn something from that screenshot of page 1. The US dollar is going down fairly quickly. That’s 3 bucks for that paper newspaper, and it’s not even Sunday.

    That 59,265 days is 162 years and 3 months, meaning this newspaper started up twice as long ago as the attack on Pearl Harbor happened. Sorry, you can’t rest on your laurels and work against the country for a half century, and still expect me to pay 3 bucks for it! (… or zero for that matter.)

    .

    PS: Yeah, I know, Reg, Hawaii wasn’t a State then, either…

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Achmed E. Newman


    PS: Yeah, I know, Reg, Hawaii wasn’t a State then, either…
     
    Or now, either. Funny how Republican crimes such as stealing islands in both oceans is so thoroughly silenced nowadays-- by Democrats. Cui bono.

    (BTW, if someone is ignorant enough not to know of Hawaii's non-statehood at the time, I'll leave the corrections to the 50 others who'll chime in.)

    The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so? Had we already committed acts of war? Or even just entered into an unspoken alliance with their enemies?

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Kratoklastes, @Diversity Heretic, @Mike Tre, @mike99588, @Jack D

  6. @Dan Hayes
    Another long-ago staple, at least in NYC, were reports of multiple Polo Grounds announcements at a football Giants game for military officers to report back to their headquarters!

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jack Armstrong

    Polo Grounds announcements at a football Giants game

    They were hosting the Brooklyn Dodgers.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @Reg Cæsar

    Thanks. Until now I had not known that there ever was a "Brooklyn Dodgers" professional football team!

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Reg Cæsar

  7. First of all, it’s Emmett, not Emmitt, and 2nd, a little 1 column inch box down at the bottom of the page, while technically “making the 1st page”, barely counts.

    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Japan is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, China, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as…. the death of Emmett Till.

    Pearl Harbor reshaped the life of a generation. Before Pearl Harbor, my mother in law (still kicking at 99) had never traveled beyond 100 miles from her birthplace. Within a couple of years she was following her husband’s military postings all across America – to the Deep South, to the Pacific Northwest, etc. Before Pearl Harbor, almost everyone she knew was Jewish and lived in her little Jewish neighborhood. Afterward, she became lifelong friends with a Mexican-American family from California and met people of all backgrounds and religions. Before, her work experience was working in small Jewish owned businesses. Afterward, she worked as a draftsman for a major American corporation that had not generally hired Jews before the war. In short, life was never the same. For better or worse, the little ethnic enclaves that dotted our cities were never the same again. After the war, she and her husband got a VA mortgage and moved out to a former potato field along with people of all sorts of backgrounds while her old neighborhood turned black. But that was a long time ago. How did Pearl Harbor influence my kids’ life? Not much.

    Maybe Till’s death should also be a dead letter but apparently it isn’t. Historical memory is always selective – the CCP talks more about the Opium Wars than it does about the Cultural Revolution or the Tiananmen Square Massacre. For better or for worse, the relationship between Black America and White America is more of a live issue than the relationship between America and Japan.

    • Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3
    @Jack D

    I disagree with your opinion, as usual.

    I was stationed in Pearl for 3 years, and every time we would pull out or come back in, you go past Battleship Row and the Arizona. Maybe for older civilian guys like you it has a different meaning, or no meaning at all, but the message I got, on a ship going out over the horizon, was that the stakes in this game are high, and it can turn on you in the blink of an eye.

    The lesson of Pearl Harbor isn't that the Japs are evil or the good guys won, or anything else. It's that the world is a dangerous place, and the cost of any lapse in vigilance or readiness is likely to measured in KIA telegrams. People think we have reached the end of history or something, and that nothing bad can happen anymore. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    So maybe it means little to you, whose military experience is limited to some relative by marriage's spouse who had some tales about life as a military dependent. But for people closer to the pointy end of things, it still has plenty of meaning. For most Navy officers, it's a family business, father-to-son-to-grandson-to-great-grandson. Just because you have forgotten or allowed it to grow irrelevant, doesn't mean we have.

    Replies: @SteveRogers42, @Captain Tripps, @epebble

    , @AndrewR
    @Jack D

    And the relationship between blacks and whites is made infinitely worse thanks to the evil rhetoric and actions of our elites.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Jack D

    Jack, I like what you write, but the front page is the front page, so it counts. WWII shaped my parents' generation in ways that we can't imagine. My mother had her husband, two brothers-in-law and three brothers all overseas for some of the best years of their lives. No one knew about PTSD back then, but those guys, my dad and uncles, were all affected in some way. Till's death is the spoon that stirs the shit. Their way of saying, see, Whites never change...Till to Floyd. Stay safe buddy.

    Replies: @Jake Barnes, @GeologyAnonMk3

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Jack D


    Historical memory is always selective –
     
    You're actually making the same exact point as Steve here, except that your take is like "the SUV drove into the parade" while Steve's take is like "the man drove his SUV into the parade".

    It is beyond the living memory
     
    This is all the more reason that competent, honest, patriotic journalists would focus on it today. If I were editor, I would use Dec 7 as an excuse to have articles that reflect on the US's current position in the world and how it got there as well as the lessons the event might have for our situation with the current rising belligerent Asian superpower.
    , @Ron Mexico
    @Jack D

    "How did Pearl Harbor influence my kids’ life?
    Ask the same question about Till.

    , @epebble
    @Jack D

    It is less and less relevant to our future

    An easy way to visualize this:

    December 7, 1781 : Not many thought a band of rebels can defeat the military of the mightiest nation on earth.
    December 7, 1861 : Not many thought the nation will self-destruct over a bunch of negroes
    December 7, 1941 : Not many were confidant U.S., fairly weak after a decade of Great Depression, can win over two powerful enemies overseas.
    December 7, 2021 : Not many think the nation can "win" against China...

    December 7, 2101 : Somebody will be writing how wrong the commenters were in 2021.

    Futurology is a dangerous profession!

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Houston 1992, @kaganovitch, @Jim Don Bob

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Jack D


    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people.
     
    The Civil War is beyond living memory, and we just added “Juneteenth” as a national holiday this year.

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong, @Colin Wright

    , @obwandiyag
    @Jack D

    WWII is a massive, earth-shaking world-transforming cataclysm of proportions never seen before in human history, a war that we are still living through to this day in a thousand concrete ways.

    So your argument is that only old people were alive when the official dates of the war occurred.

    Not feeble or anything. Childish, more like. Children don't know the value of anything.

    Replies: @Old Prude

    , @obwandiyag
    @Jack D

    You are the perfect identity politics shill. All "reasonable" sounding. Reasonable if you are a child, and don't know what reason is.

    The relationship between Black America and White America may well be a live issue. Forced on us by elites. But it is a lie and a diversion, and it shouldn't be an issue. The only real issue is class, i.e., money. Race analysis (conveniently) crushes class analysis.

    Both racists and anti-racists are the same chumps. Because they can't see the truth sitting right in front of them--all that matters is money, who's got it, who don't, where it went, how to get more.

    And WWII was a grand reshuffling of money. All wars are.

    Race, on the other hand, is triviality. A useful decoy to sucker the rubes away from their own interests. Including the black rubes.

    , @Moses
    @Jack D

    Lol. Indulge me in a little thought exercise, courtesy Jack.


    TBH, the Holocaust happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Germany is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, Russia, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as…. the death of Emmett Till.
     
    Pretty sure Jack would call the above "anti-semitic". Amirite Jack?

    I guess some contemporaneous historical events are more ancient history than others, if you know what I mean.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Richard B

    , @Richard B
    @Jack D


    Historical memory is always selective
     
    For a reason. Memory is selective. Obviously!

    In fact, there's no such thing as Memory. There's just remembering. And that most definitely is selective. But what determines that selectiveness? Our interests. Of course.

    Still, it is true that some remembering is a lot more selective than others, especially when it comes to History, or, to be more precise, our historical interests.

    A perfect example would be your comment.

  8. How would America be different today if instead of plunging into all out world war, we had responded in kind to Japan’s attack and called it a day?

    • Replies: @anon
    @James Braxton

    The seeds of our current state were sown long ago. It's not like everything was fine and dandy until "woke" showed up.

    , @Flip
    @James Braxton

    Hitler declared war on America a few days later on December 11.

    Replies: @James Braxton

    , @Muggles
    @James Braxton


    How would America be different today if instead of plunging into all out world war, we had responded in kind to Japan’s attack and called it a day?
     
    That was impossible given the poor state of US military assets in the Pacific.

    It took Doolittle and the US military over four months to launch a somewhat successful albeit token air raid on the Japanese homeland after Pearl Harbor. That raid did little damage.

    The Japanese had done military planning on the Pearl Harbor raid for several years and had acquired a lot of detailed intelligence about the layout, etc. Four carriers sneaked up close!

    So this isn't some schoolyard punch-out where you can show up tomorrow and dish out what you received. Meanwhile, the Japanese were invading the Philippines, Singapore, Malaya, Hong Kong, Dutch East Asia (Indonesia) and most of SE Asia. Seriously wiping out the UK naval forces in the Pacific and wiping out any American bases and assets close to Japan.

    You logic is flawed by both the reality on the ground/sea and the psychology of the Japanese military command. They were seriously deluded as to their invincibility.

    After all, it took two unprecedented American atomic bomb strikes to finally get them to admit defeat. After over two years of effectively losing their military capability for meaningful offense.

    Fighting to the bitter end, as with Hitler and Tojo, means you have to inflict a bitter end.

    How long did it take the American government to get out of Vietnam and Afghanistan despite much smaller stakes for "defeat" and military loss?

    Replies: @James Braxton, @PaceLaw

  9. @Altai

    (huge part of the civic religion when I was a kid)
     
    I mean, they made a big deal about it on the 70th anniversary too, not so long ago.

    Replies: @Boomthorkell, @Jack D, @AndrewR, @Hypnotoad666

    I think on the 70th anniversary there were still a bunch of guys alive who had been there but they knew that most of them wouldn’t be around for the 80th. So this was like the last big hurrah. WWII vets are getting really thin on the ground.

    The last US WWI veteran died in 2011 so the last WWII vet will probably expire in the next 15 years or so.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    WWII vets are getting really thin on the ground.
     
    And thick in the ground. A 90-year-old today was 14 at the end of the war.

    Derb once mentioned his son complaining that his friends' grandfathers had fought in Vietnam, while his own had fought in the First World War. This was about 20 years ago, too.

    Time dress-parades on.

    Replies: @D. K., @Bardon Kaldian, @PiltdownMan

    , @prosa123
    @Jack D

    The last US WWI veteran died in 2011 so the last WWII vet will probably expire in the next 15 years or so.

    Pretty much. Chances are the very last veteran in the world will be German, as in the last few months before its surrender German was using 12-year-old boys in combat.

    Fun fact: the last widow of a Civil War veteran died just last year at the age of 101. In 1936 Helen Viola Jackson worked as housekeeper for 93-year-old veteran James Bolin, a neighbor of her impoverished family in Missouri. When he ran out of money, her family came up with a plan under which she would marry him and collect his pension when he died. She did not move in with him and the marriage remained a secret outside her family. When Bolin died in 1939, Jackson was all set to collect her widow's pension but decided against it after Bolin's angry children threatened to expose her as a scammer.

    Esther Sumner Damon, the last widow of a Revolutionary War veteran, died in 1906.

    Replies: @houston 1992

    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Jack D

    And the last Holocaust survivor will pass on - probably never.

  10. FDR was a political genius. He suckered the Japanese into attacking us. He and Churchill were able to save their buddy Stalin.

    Did Churchill regret destroying the British Empire to save Uncle Joe’ Empire?

    • Agree: Ben tillman, Bill Jones
    • Replies: @Alrenous
    @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    America has a long tradition of benefiting from traitors to the English crown. All that's necessary for evil to triumph is for Churchill to envy his countrymen more than he dislikes America.

  11. @Achmed E. Newman
    This isn't the same country as the one where that happened, Steve. It's not the same country as the one that even cared about it for a long time - to me, probably the one during the 55th anniversary - mid 1990s - was nearly it.

    Then again, from that picture, the New York Times doesn't look like it has anything to do with America anymore. They care about some foreign affairs that shouldn't have anything to do with America, their latest narrative on what the world should keep panicking about, something local that will affect their staff but not likely the 184,000 business where English is probably not spoken and they hopefully don't care what the new Mayor will mandate... oh, and, OK, got to prevent Texas from interfering in the election-theft process.

    Yeah, and "redraw" is not a noun.

    I did learn something from that screenshot of page 1. The US dollar is going down fairly quickly. That's 3 bucks for that paper newspaper, and it's not even Sunday.

    That 59,265 days is 162 years and 3 months, meaning this newspaper started up twice as long ago as the attack on Pearl Harbor happened. Sorry, you can't rest on your laurels and work against the country for a half century, and still expect me to pay 3 bucks for it! (... or zero for that matter.)

    .

    PS: Yeah, I know, Reg, Hawaii wasn't a State then, either...

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    PS: Yeah, I know, Reg, Hawaii wasn’t a State then, either…

    Or now, either. Funny how Republican crimes such as stealing islands in both oceans is so thoroughly silenced nowadays– by Democrats. Cui bono.

    (BTW, if someone is ignorant enough not to know of Hawaii’s non-statehood at the time, I’ll leave the corrections to the 50 others who’ll chime in.)

    The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so? Had we already committed acts of war? Or even just entered into an unspoken alliance with their enemies?

    • Agree: Ben tillman
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Reg Cæsar

    'The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so? Had we already committed acts of war? Or even just entered into an unspoken alliance with their enemies?'

    'n the por innocent Japanese were just tryin' to do a Genghis Khan reenactment in China, and we wouldn't sell 'em the steel 'n stuff they needed to continue.

    Replies: @Jefferson Temple, @but an humble craftsman

    , @Kratoklastes
    @Reg Cæsar


    The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so?

     

    It's not even a question. December 7 1941 was the first Foreign Policy Blowback Day, and - as with the later FPBD in 2001, occurred with the foreknowledge of, and to the absolute delight of, the leadership.

    Had we already committed acts of war?
     
    Countries cannot claim to be neutral, and then only trade with one side (that's not explicitly a casus belli though). The US broke a trade agreement with Japan, implemented what amounts to a blockade[1], and provided financial aid to the nation with which Japan was at war. Taken together, those constitute a valid casus belli, by the US' own acknowledgement, 13 years earlier.

    During the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations hearing over the ratification of the Kellogg-Briand Pact[2], Senator Claude A. Swanson (Virginia) posed the following question to Secretary Kellogg:

    Swanson : “Suppose a country is not attacked. Suppose there is an economic blockade, and they carry out their obligations under the League of Nations for an economic blockade; would this treaty interfere with it?”

    Kellogg: There is no such thing as a blockade without you are in war... An act of war, absolutely.”
     
    (Interestingly: that question was asked, and the answer given, on December 7, 1928. Look it up)

    The US whining after each FPBD makes it clear that they have adopted the Jewish Strategy: provoke a response, and then calumniate those you were setting up for an attack.

    The schlubs - being 99% imbeciles - fall for that "We wuz wronged" shit every single time.

    Notes.

    [1] at the show-trial after the war, the Japanese claimed that the US blockade was an act of war. They pointed out that the embargoes applied by the US were designed to cut off supplies that were vital to the civilian life of the nation (remind anyone of sanctions against Iraq 50 years later? Anyone? Bueller?). Among the goods whose import was effectively prohibited:

    Cement, aluminum, lead, copper, coal, rice, beans, phosphate rock, fats, oil and oil bearing materials, hides and skin, tanning materials, leather and leather manufactures, potassium salts, wheat and wheat flour, zinc, sugar, lumber, textile machinery, sulphur and sulphuric acid, wool and wool manufactures, marine products, soda, ash and caustic soda, chemical nitrogen, rayon yarn and staple fibre, bicycles, electrical equipment, silk fabrics, cotton textiles, rubber and rubber manufactures, rayon fabrics, and raw cotton
     
    [2] Hearings Before the Committee on Foreign Relations, United States Senate, Seventieth Congress on The General Pact for the Renunciation of War signed at Paris August 27, 1928

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Diversity Heretic
    @Reg Cæsar

    Edward s. Miller wrote a book entitled Bankrupting the Enemy, which is a detailed exposition of the economic and financial measures that the United States used against Japan in the late 1930s and early 1940s; embargoes of oil and freezing Japanese gold reserves are the most prominent but by no means all. One Japanese leader who was prosecuted for "beginning a war of aggression" countered with a vigorious, albeit unsuccessful, defense that when economic and financial sanctions reach a certain point, a military response is justified under international law.

    And I believe that the Japanese diplomatic note that accompanied the declaration of war said essentially that Japan wasn't doing anything in east Asia that the United States hadn't been doing in Latin America for a long time. Japan had never objected to those U.S. actions, so by what right did the United States object to Japanese actions in its sphere of influence?

    As for Roosevelt's knowledge of Japanese attack plans, the best explanation I've ever heard is that Roosevelt was hoping for an incident and got a catastrophe.

    What a shame it had to be a war with a country that Calvin Coolidge referred to as "America's natural friend."

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Clifford Brown

    , @Mike Tre
    @Reg Cæsar

    Hawaii was in a state.. of transition. It was the first tectonic-fluid non-binary archipelago territory ever.

    , @mike99588
    @Reg Cæsar

    The US and Japan were on a collision course by 1900 as wannabe hegemons.
    Japan occupied Taiwan in 1895 and the US occupied the Philippines in 1898.
    The US "brokered" the 1904 Russian - Japanese peace treaty, not through idle talk.
    Roosevelts on both ends of the pitch...

    USNA graduates were made aware of these geopolitics for decades before.
    Robert Heinlein mentions it too.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar


    did they give the Japanese every right to do so?
     
    This is only relevant insofar as whether it was right to put the Japanese leaders on trial for "waging aggressive war" against the US. Even if they were not guilt of this, they committed many other war crimes. Tojo's complicity in atrocities such as the Rape of Nanjing, the Bataan Death March, and human experimentation entailing the torture and death of thousands ensured that he had a hangman's rope waiting for him regardless.

    However, this has nothing to do with a nation's right to defend itself when attacked. Even if Japan had causus belli, the US had no obligations to say, "You're right to bomb Pearl Harbor. We are not even going to try to shoot your planes down because you are so right. We surender to your rightness and are turning over all our territories in the Pacific to you." That's not how it works.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  12. @Altai

    (huge part of the civic religion when I was a kid)
     
    I mean, they made a big deal about it on the 70th anniversary too, not so long ago.

    Replies: @Boomthorkell, @Jack D, @AndrewR, @Hypnotoad666

    That was before the Great Awokening.

  13. @Jack D
    First of all, it's Emmett, not Emmitt, and 2nd, a little 1 column inch box down at the bottom of the page, while technically "making the 1st page", barely counts.

    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Japan is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, China, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as.... the death of Emmett Till.

    Pearl Harbor reshaped the life of a generation. Before Pearl Harbor, my mother in law (still kicking at 99) had never traveled beyond 100 miles from her birthplace. Within a couple of years she was following her husband's military postings all across America - to the Deep South, to the Pacific Northwest, etc. Before Pearl Harbor, almost everyone she knew was Jewish and lived in her little Jewish neighborhood. Afterward, she became lifelong friends with a Mexican-American family from California and met people of all backgrounds and religions. Before, her work experience was working in small Jewish owned businesses. Afterward, she worked as a draftsman for a major American corporation that had not generally hired Jews before the war. In short, life was never the same. For better or worse, the little ethnic enclaves that dotted our cities were never the same again. After the war, she and her husband got a VA mortgage and moved out to a former potato field along with people of all sorts of backgrounds while her old neighborhood turned black. But that was a long time ago. How did Pearl Harbor influence my kids' life? Not much.

    Maybe Till's death should also be a dead letter but apparently it isn't. Historical memory is always selective - the CCP talks more about the Opium Wars than it does about the Cultural Revolution or the Tiananmen Square Massacre. For better or for worse, the relationship between Black America and White America is more of a live issue than the relationship between America and Japan.

    Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3, @AndrewR, @Buffalo Joe, @Chrisnonymous, @Ron Mexico, @epebble, @Dave Pinsen, @obwandiyag, @obwandiyag, @Moses, @Richard B

    I disagree with your opinion, as usual.

    I was stationed in Pearl for 3 years, and every time we would pull out or come back in, you go past Battleship Row and the Arizona. Maybe for older civilian guys like you it has a different meaning, or no meaning at all, but the message I got, on a ship going out over the horizon, was that the stakes in this game are high, and it can turn on you in the blink of an eye.

    The lesson of Pearl Harbor isn’t that the Japs are evil or the good guys won, or anything else. It’s that the world is a dangerous place, and the cost of any lapse in vigilance or readiness is likely to measured in KIA telegrams. People think we have reached the end of history or something, and that nothing bad can happen anymore. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    So maybe it means little to you, whose military experience is limited to some relative by marriage’s spouse who had some tales about life as a military dependent. But for people closer to the pointy end of things, it still has plenty of meaning. For most Navy officers, it’s a family business, father-to-son-to-grandson-to-great-grandson. Just because you have forgotten or allowed it to grow irrelevant, doesn’t mean we have.

    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    @GeologyAnonMk3

    Hello, 911? I need to report a murder.

    , @Captain Tripps
    @GeologyAnonMk3

    Thanks (I ran out of my reaction allotments).

    , @epebble
    @GeologyAnonMk3

    My interpretation of what Jack wrote is (considering he interleaved it as a commentary on Emmett Till pushing aside Pearl Harbor remembrance), we have bigger problems from convulsions within than possible invasion from without. For those in the military (and their loved ones) possible invasion from without is always a bigger deal; but for the rest, convulsions within is scarier.

    Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3

  14. @Jack D
    @Altai

    I think on the 70th anniversary there were still a bunch of guys alive who had been there but they knew that most of them wouldn't be around for the 80th. So this was like the last big hurrah. WWII vets are getting really thin on the ground.

    The last US WWI veteran died in 2011 so the last WWII vet will probably expire in the next 15 years or so.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @prosa123, @Hapalong Cassidy

    WWII vets are getting really thin on the ground.

    And thick in the ground. A 90-year-old today was 14 at the end of the war.

    Derb once mentioned his son complaining that his friends’ grandfathers had fought in Vietnam, while his own had fought in the First World War. This was about 20 years ago, too.

    Time dress-parades on.

    • Replies: @D. K.
    @Reg Cæsar

    My late mother's lone surviving sibling is one of three of my aunts who survive, alongside none of my uncles. One week after the United States Congress declared war on Japan, she turned 15. On her 16th birthday, her future brother-in-law's Coast Guard cutter sank a new U-boat, out on its maiden patrol:

    ***

    Ingham served with distinction during World War II on convoy duty. Protecting ships ferrying vital supplies to Britain, Ingham battled stormy weather, German U-boats, and enemy aircraft. On 15 December 1942, during one crossing, Ingham engaged and sank the enemy submarine U-626.[4] After 1944, Ingham served as an amphibious flagship and she would later take part in three campaigns in the Pacific Theater. Ingham was the last active warship in the US fleet with a U-Boat kill.

    ***

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Ingham_(WHEC-35)#History_1934–1988

    During its time as a flagship in the Pacific Theater, General Douglas MacArthur himself once was aboard the Ingham. My eldest brother was named after him, a few years later.

    ***

    U-626 was assigned to the 5th U-boat Flotilla for basic training, and upon completion was permanently assigned to the 6th U-boat Flotilla.[1] On 8 December 1942, U-626, under the direction of Leutnant zur See (acting sub-lieutenant/ensign) Hans-Botho Bade left Bergen, Norway for her maiden patrol.[1] The USCGC Ingham along with USS Babbitt and USS Leary were in the middle of escort duties near Iceland, while U-626 was on its first patrol.[3] On 15 December the USCGC Ingham scouted ahead of the other escorts in search of a larger convoy.[3] The cutter made sonar contact with a "doubtful" object and dropped one 600 pound depth charge at U-626 sinking the ship and killing the crew of 47.[1][3] The cutter continued on without incident, without even knowing that it sank U-626.[3] This was the last U-boat of 1942 to be sunk by an American agency, and it was not known until after the war that Ingham had sunk U-626.[3]

    ***

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-626#Service_history

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Reg Cæsar


    Derb once mentioned his son complaining that his friends’ grandfathers had fought in Vietnam, while his own had fought in the First World War.
     
    Derb is a genius

    https://c.tenor.com/GZo3q_VkgVcAAAAM/cute-laughing-cat.gif
    , @PiltdownMan
    @Reg Cæsar

    None of my elders who were of working age or served in the military in WWII are alive any more, the last passing away two years ago. Several of my first cousins have childhood memories of the war years, the oldest finished high school in 1945.

    Regarding Derb's comment, PiltdownChild2, age 17, still can't get her head around the fact that my grandfather—her great-grandfather—was born two years after the end of the Civil War, in 1867.

    By the same token, one of President John Tyler's grandson's is still alive, and Tyler was born in 1790, the first year of George Washington's presidency.

  15. @Jack D
    First of all, it's Emmett, not Emmitt, and 2nd, a little 1 column inch box down at the bottom of the page, while technically "making the 1st page", barely counts.

    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Japan is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, China, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as.... the death of Emmett Till.

    Pearl Harbor reshaped the life of a generation. Before Pearl Harbor, my mother in law (still kicking at 99) had never traveled beyond 100 miles from her birthplace. Within a couple of years she was following her husband's military postings all across America - to the Deep South, to the Pacific Northwest, etc. Before Pearl Harbor, almost everyone she knew was Jewish and lived in her little Jewish neighborhood. Afterward, she became lifelong friends with a Mexican-American family from California and met people of all backgrounds and religions. Before, her work experience was working in small Jewish owned businesses. Afterward, she worked as a draftsman for a major American corporation that had not generally hired Jews before the war. In short, life was never the same. For better or worse, the little ethnic enclaves that dotted our cities were never the same again. After the war, she and her husband got a VA mortgage and moved out to a former potato field along with people of all sorts of backgrounds while her old neighborhood turned black. But that was a long time ago. How did Pearl Harbor influence my kids' life? Not much.

    Maybe Till's death should also be a dead letter but apparently it isn't. Historical memory is always selective - the CCP talks more about the Opium Wars than it does about the Cultural Revolution or the Tiananmen Square Massacre. For better or for worse, the relationship between Black America and White America is more of a live issue than the relationship between America and Japan.

    Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3, @AndrewR, @Buffalo Joe, @Chrisnonymous, @Ron Mexico, @epebble, @Dave Pinsen, @obwandiyag, @obwandiyag, @Moses, @Richard B

    And the relationship between blacks and whites is made infinitely worse thanks to the evil rhetoric and actions of our elites.

    • Agree: Gordo, Richard B
  16. @American Citizen
    Pearl Harbor was the catalyst for (white) America to join WWII and win it.

    The media has no interest today in glorifying and memorializing the people who fought in the war and built America postwar. The heroes of the past are today's domestic terrorist.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Moses, @JimDandy

    ‘…The media has no interest today in glorifying and memorializing the people who fought in the war and built America postwar. The heroes of the past are today’s domestic terrorist.’

    Indeed. Kyle Rittenhouse is exactly the kind of kid who was down there volunteering for the Marine Corps on the morning of December 8th.

    • Agree: kaganovitch, JimDandy
    • Replies: @Alrenous
    @Colin Wright

    Agreed.

    Pearl Harbor was an attack on RedGov. Why would BluGov get activated about that? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If anything BluGov is an implicit ally with Imperial Japan. "Shame the latter doesn't still exist, eh?"

    Curious how America's colour for Communist is now blue. Say hit to twitter and facebook.

  17. The point is to not remind why it was then with China against Japan, and now it’s the other way around.

    CCP’s narrative is that the Japanese are not sorry for nuffin for starting the war, they are only sorry for losing.

    Can’t believe these two events are happening at the same time. What it tells? pic.twitter.com/de5VCTiluI— Chen Weihua (陈卫华) (@chenweihua) December 7, 2021

    This is true to an extent–

    View post on imgur.com

    Whereas from Japan’s perspective, they’ve always had less to fear from faraway United States, than an Asian continental superpower, PRC, USSR, Mongol Empire.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Thanks and LOL.

    I know you didn't make the map, but can you tell me why Iran is "West Korea"?

    Replies: @Jon, @Chrisnonymous, @tyrone, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    My wife celebrated Pearl Harbor Day by sticking her ice cold fingers under my shirt when I got home from work.

    , @SteveRogers42
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Reminds me of the early-1970's issue of National Lampoon with the evolutionary chart of the Ascent of Man.

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ac/b6/52/acb652a49c3a1e90edfba922e6944fe2--national-lampoons-evolution.jpg

    , @John Derbyshire
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    So's your old man https://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Diaries/2021-07.html#04

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Whereas from Japan’s perspective...
     
    Based on the map, I'd say the Japanese are quite grounded in reality.
    , @anono
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    this is from Babylon Bee, Dec. 6, 1941?

  18. @Reg Cæsar
    @Achmed E. Newman


    PS: Yeah, I know, Reg, Hawaii wasn’t a State then, either…
     
    Or now, either. Funny how Republican crimes such as stealing islands in both oceans is so thoroughly silenced nowadays-- by Democrats. Cui bono.

    (BTW, if someone is ignorant enough not to know of Hawaii's non-statehood at the time, I'll leave the corrections to the 50 others who'll chime in.)

    The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so? Had we already committed acts of war? Or even just entered into an unspoken alliance with their enemies?

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Kratoklastes, @Diversity Heretic, @Mike Tre, @mike99588, @Jack D

    ‘The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so? Had we already committed acts of war? Or even just entered into an unspoken alliance with their enemies?’

    ‘n the por innocent Japanese were just tryin’ to do a Genghis Khan reenactment in China, and we wouldn’t sell ’em the steel ‘n stuff they needed to continue.

    • Replies: @Jefferson Temple
    @Colin Wright

    Seems similar to the current Huff about Russia and Ukraine. Now, as then, why the hell is it any of our business?

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    , @but an humble craftsman
    @Colin Wright

    Fool.

    I could elaborate, but if you do not know better at your age, you have the wish to not know better.

    I respect that wish.

  19. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    The point is to not remind why it was then with China against Japan, and now it's the other way around.

    CCP's narrative is that the Japanese are not sorry for nuffin for starting the war, they are only sorry for losing.


    Can’t believe these two events are happening at the same time. What it tells? pic.twitter.com/de5VCTiluI— Chen Weihua (陈卫华) (@chenweihua) December 7, 2021
     
    This is true to an extent--
    https://imgur.com/2mZYi1m

    Whereas from Japan's perspective, they've always had less to fear from faraway United States, than an Asian continental superpower, PRC, USSR, Mongol Empire.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Chrisnonymous, @SteveRogers42, @John Derbyshire, @The Wild Geese Howard, @anono

    Thanks and LOL.

    I know you didn’t make the map, but can you tell me why Iran is “West Korea”?

    • Replies: @Jon
    @Achmed E. Newman

    West Korea is a play on North Korea, not South: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=north+korea+iran&t=brave&ia=web

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Unfortunately the map is not well thought out. It is an excuse to call China whiners and Filipinos cheap dates, which are both true and funny, but much of the rest doesn't make sense, reflecting lack of knowledge about Japanese stereotypes. For example, to Japanese, Mongolians are not "horsefuckers", which isn't even an idiom in Japanese. If you ask Japanese people about Mongolia, they immediately think of "genghis khan", which is their name for a kind of grilled meat dish with lamb. (Japanese have to be told that it is exotic foreign food to be induced to eat stinky lamb, which by the way they call "ram", which is also funny...). Also, many think of Taiwan as a different as a different place altogether, not fake China, reflecting the history of Taiwan as a Japanese colony that heavily "Japanified". Korea is very touchy. Many would call them whiners more than China (due to the comfort women issue) but others just think of them as "cool" for Kpop. Many Japanese actually have a benign or positive view of Iran. Unlike the US, the Iranians in Japan tend to be well-educated and nice researchers.

    , @tyrone
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The nuclear middle finger.

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Yes the nukes. 君が代 "Kimigayo" "His Imperial Majesty's Reign" is the national anthem.

    *君 jūn can be also gentleman, sovereign

    The PRC version--
    https://imgur.com/tzBdX19

  20. … people listening to big band music on the radio on December 7, 1941 when they hear: “We interrupt this broadcast …”

    The next day, my father was helping his father stack cans for an S&W Foods display in a grocery store, when FDR came on the radio and gave his “Day of Infamy” speech.

    My grandfather, a regional sales manager for S&W, had served as an infantryman in WWI and advised my father not to wait to be drafted. Dad joined the Navy and went from a first-year engineering student at Modesto Junior College to an officer-in-training and engineering student at Cornell.

    He met my mother while stationed in Florida, went on to a great career and produced me.

    World War Two “been berry berry good to me.”

    • Thanks: Captain Tripps
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Buzz Mohawk

    WWII was beneficial to millions of people who were lucky enough to survive it. War is (almost) always good for business.

    , @David In TN
    @Buzz Mohawk

    With a lot of us, our parents met when and where they did because of WW II.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Rex Little

  21. Personally, I was shocked that the WW1 centenary wasn’t a thing at all domestically, it was basically limited to Trump visiting France–where his enemies quickly piled on him for one thing or another. This from the Brits:

    That’s funny coming from the country that expanded WW1 into a global conflict. So yeah, these war remembrances are toxic and political. Maybe we can change that, and all unite in 2022 to remember the 55th anniversary of the USS Liberty attack.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Bragadocious

    I’m right there with you, Buddy.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Bragadocious


    Personally, I was shocked that the WW1 centenary wasn’t a thing at all domestically...
     
    I noticed that too. Neither the anniversary of the outbreak nor of the Armistice seemed to elicit any notice. In the US at least. Maybe in Europe is was a different, allthough I got the impression that they didn't make too big a deal out of it either.

    Also, this year is the 500th anniversary of the conquest of Mexico by Cortes, and last year the 400th anniversary of the Mayflower landing at Plymouth Rock. Neither of those seemed to draw any attention either.

    The people who set the narrative want us to live in a perpetual present. History is dangerous.

    Replies: @Ralph L

    , @Anonymous
    @Bragadocious

    Trump has to be careful what he says on this topic, but I'm pretty sure he dislikes all the wars fought by the US last century, including the big one. He has no desire to commemorate mistakes.

  22. FDR knew

    • Replies: @anono
    @Anonymous

    Yes.

  23. Amazon Web Services went down in the last hour or so. Probably incompetence or some maintenance issue. But…

    Will the 21st-century Pearl Harbor be virtual?

    Also, they’re still trying to slip women into the Selective Service registry. The latest such attempt failed in the House today.

    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/584701-provision-requiring-women-to-register-for-draft-stripped-from-ndaa

    We already have 15 million Americans registered, and are overextended as it is. What do they have in mind that they’ll need 30 million for?

    At the height (or depth) of the war in 1944, there was some consideration of drafting nurses, about 97% of whom were women. Enough volunteered to make this unnecessary. If we got through 1944 without drafting women, we can get through the 21st century without registering them.

    • Agree: Jefferson Temple
    • Replies: @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    I am completely opposed to a military draft, but if there ever is one again it god-damned better include women.
    As I've said before, if anyone - I don't care who it is - says in my presence that women shouldn't be in combat because their lives are too precious, the obvious corollary of which is that men are expendable, it will take every last bit of my self control not to physically assault that person. And it may not be enough.

    Note to the autistics on this site who disagree: go die in a fire.

    Replies: @NickG, @Reg Cæsar, @education realist, @Joe S.Walker, @animalogic

    , @Kratoklastes
    @Reg Cæsar


    Will the 21st-century Pearl Harbor be virtual?
     
    More to the point: will the 21st century Pearl Harbour be domestically-perpetrated?

    It would take one reasonably-bright coder who literally doesn't give a fuck anymore, and 2 weeks of work 'lethalising' existing attack vectors on known vulnerabilities. By 'lethalising' I mean developing for functionality-destruction, not just temporary, reversible disabling-for-profit.

    Wags now refer to the lethalising aspect as "gain of function" research - for comedic effect.

    Every half-aware 4G theorist knows about the vulnerability of major infrastructure networks - traffic lights; electricity distribution; water purification and distribution; fuel distribution; and of course the internet (particularly credit-circulation). More importantly, they know how to identify critical nodes - and how to emulate a critical node failure by disabling non-critical nodes.

    These things are routinely wargamed, and literally the only thing preventing the entire system from being taken down, is that it seems that nobody wants to do it. This is another 'dot point' in my argument for why "global terror networks" are absolute bullshit.

    Nobody wants to do it... yet.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    @Reg Cæsar

    When, during the Carter administration, Selective Service registration was brought back, I resented it as a young man with vivid memory of what a farce the recent Vietnam War really had been. I have felt ever since that young women should indeed be required to register if young men are.

    This is because I am against the whole thing. I hold this opinion because the wars my country has engaged in have increasingly been based on the lies and follies of an elite not at risk, in service of a global empire that does not belong to me or to the vast majority of my fellow Americans.

    There is plenty of work that can be done by women in order to support war efforts. My mother sewed parachutes during WWII (itself a war -- based on lies and manipulations -- that the United States should never have entered -- and certainly not on the wrong side of.)

    My aunt joined the WAVES and worked stateside in a Navy office. Why not draft women into all that kind of work here at home, as military conscripts, and enforce military discipline? They are not suitable for combat or any other historically male, military role.

    By all means, force them to register to serve in a military fashion. Have their names, addresses and social security numbers ready if you are going to do that to men. Maybe then more American women would be against wars built on lies.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Reg Cæsar, @JMcG

  24. @Jack D
    @Altai

    I think on the 70th anniversary there were still a bunch of guys alive who had been there but they knew that most of them wouldn't be around for the 80th. So this was like the last big hurrah. WWII vets are getting really thin on the ground.

    The last US WWI veteran died in 2011 so the last WWII vet will probably expire in the next 15 years or so.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @prosa123, @Hapalong Cassidy

    The last US WWI veteran died in 2011 so the last WWII vet will probably expire in the next 15 years or so.

    Pretty much. Chances are the very last veteran in the world will be German, as in the last few months before its surrender German was using 12-year-old boys in combat.

    Fun fact: the last widow of a Civil War veteran died just last year at the age of 101. In 1936 Helen Viola Jackson worked as housekeeper for 93-year-old veteran James Bolin, a neighbor of her impoverished family in Missouri. When he ran out of money, her family came up with a plan under which she would marry him and collect his pension when he died. She did not move in with him and the marriage remained a secret outside her family. When Bolin died in 1939, Jackson was all set to collect her widow’s pension but decided against it after Bolin’s angry children threatened to expose her as a scammer.

    Esther Sumner Damon, the last widow of a Revolutionary War veteran, died in 1906.

    • Replies: @houston 1992
    @prosa123

    2010 article includes a table displaying beneficiaries , including veterans children, by war . Bierce said war was God's way of teaching Americans geography, so I supposed beneficiaries tables are perhaps one of His ways of teaching the USA population wars' legacy costs ...USA remains a slow learner in this regard

    https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-08-08/civil-war-vets-pension-still-remains-on-governments-payroll-151-years-after-last-shot-fired

  25. @Reg Cæsar
    @Achmed E. Newman


    PS: Yeah, I know, Reg, Hawaii wasn’t a State then, either…
     
    Or now, either. Funny how Republican crimes such as stealing islands in both oceans is so thoroughly silenced nowadays-- by Democrats. Cui bono.

    (BTW, if someone is ignorant enough not to know of Hawaii's non-statehood at the time, I'll leave the corrections to the 50 others who'll chime in.)

    The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so? Had we already committed acts of war? Or even just entered into an unspoken alliance with their enemies?

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Kratoklastes, @Diversity Heretic, @Mike Tre, @mike99588, @Jack D

    The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so?

    It’s not even a question. December 7 1941 was the first Foreign Policy Blowback Day, and – as with the later FPBD in 2001, occurred with the foreknowledge of, and to the absolute delight of, the leadership.

    Had we already committed acts of war?

    Countries cannot claim to be neutral, and then only trade with one side (that’s not explicitly a casus belli though). The US broke a trade agreement with Japan, implemented what amounts to a blockade[1], and provided financial aid to the nation with which Japan was at war. Taken together, those constitute a valid casus belli, by the US’ own acknowledgement, 13 years earlier.

    During the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations hearing over the ratification of the Kellogg-Briand Pact[2], Senator Claude A. Swanson (Virginia) posed the following question to Secretary Kellogg:

    Swanson : “Suppose a country is not attacked. Suppose there is an economic blockade, and they carry out their obligations under the League of Nations for an economic blockade; would this treaty interfere with it?”

    Kellogg: There is no such thing as a blockade without you are in war… An act of war, absolutely.”

    (Interestingly: that question was asked, and the answer given, on December 7, 1928. Look it up)

    The US whining after each FPBD makes it clear that they have adopted the Jewish Strategy: provoke a response, and then calumniate those you were setting up for an attack.

    The schlubs – being 99% imbeciles – fall for that “We wuz wronged” shit every single time.

    Notes.

    [1] at the show-trial after the war, the Japanese claimed that the US blockade was an act of war. They pointed out that the embargoes applied by the US were designed to cut off supplies that were vital to the civilian life of the nation (remind anyone of sanctions against Iraq 50 years later? Anyone? Bueller?). Among the goods whose import was effectively prohibited:

    Cement, aluminum, lead, copper, coal, rice, beans, phosphate rock, fats, oil and oil bearing materials, hides and skin, tanning materials, leather and leather manufactures, potassium salts, wheat and wheat flour, zinc, sugar, lumber, textile machinery, sulphur and sulphuric acid, wool and wool manufactures, marine products, soda, ash and caustic soda, chemical nitrogen, rayon yarn and staple fibre, bicycles, electrical equipment, silk fabrics, cotton textiles, rubber and rubber manufactures, rayon fabrics, and raw cotton

    [2] Hearings Before the Committee on Foreign Relations, United States Senate, Seventieth Congress on The General Pact for the Renunciation of War signed at Paris August 27, 1928

    • Agree: Ben tillman
    • Thanks: John Regan
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Kratoklastes

    There was no blockade. Any other country willing to do so could supply Japan. There was an embargo, meaning that we wouldn't do so any more. There is nothing illegal about an embargo.

    The embargo came only after Japan had taken a series of agressive steps including allying with Nazi Germany, securing neutrality from Stalin and occupying Indochina, which put it at the doorstep of the Phillipines. Japan had not yet declared war against the US but they were clearly preparing the battlefield and we would have been idiots to sell them the rope that they needed to hang us with (in Lenin's words).

    At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis claimed that they were just following orders. At Jussie Smollett's trial, he claimed that he was attacked and had nothing to do with setting it up. You can claim all you want but a lie is still a lie.

    Replies: @dimples, @Reg Cæsar, @Clifford Brown, @John Regan, @Sparkon

  26. Last year’s 400th anniversary of the Pilgrims founding the Plymouth colony in the New World got short schrift by the zeitgeist too.

  27. @Buzz Mohawk

    ... people listening to big band music on the radio on December 7, 1941 when they hear: “We interrupt this broadcast …”
     
    The next day, my father was helping his father stack cans for an S&W Foods display in a grocery store, when FDR came on the radio and gave his "Day of Infamy" speech.

    My grandfather, a regional sales manager for S&W, had served as an infantryman in WWI and advised my father not to wait to be drafted. Dad joined the Navy and went from a first-year engineering student at Modesto Junior College to an officer-in-training and engineering student at Cornell.

    He met my mother while stationed in Florida, went on to a great career and produced me.

    World War Two "been berry berry good to me."

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @David In TN

    WWII was beneficial to millions of people who were lucky enough to survive it. War is (almost) always good for business.

  28. @Reg Cæsar
    Amazon Web Services went down in the last hour or so. Probably incompetence or some maintenance issue. But...

    Will the 21st-century Pearl Harbor be virtual?

    Also, they're still trying to slip women into the Selective Service registry. The latest such attempt failed in the House today.

    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/584701-provision-requiring-women-to-register-for-draft-stripped-from-ndaa

    We already have 15 million Americans registered, and are overextended as it is. What do they have in mind that they'll need 30 million for?

    At the height (or depth) of the war in 1944, there was some consideration of drafting nurses, about 97% of whom were women. Enough volunteered to make this unnecessary. If we got through 1944 without drafting women, we can get through the 21st century without registering them.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Kratoklastes, @Buzz Mohawk

    I am completely opposed to a military draft, but if there ever is one again it god-damned better include women.
    As I’ve said before, if anyone – I don’t care who it is – says in my presence that women shouldn’t be in combat because their lives are too precious, the obvious corollary of which is that men are expendable, it will take every last bit of my self control not to physically assault that person. And it may not be enough.

    Note to the autistics on this site who disagree: go die in a fire.

    • Replies: @NickG
    @prosa123

    Steady on old chap, pour yourself a stiff one and settle down to a panic.

    Replies: @Tony massey

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @prosa123


    Note to the autistics on this site who disagree: go die in a fire.
     
    99% of Americans in 1941-- and 1971-- were "autistic"? I'm a reactionary, not a conservative. I refuse to cuck on this.

    that women shouldn’t be in combat because their lives are too precious
     
    Their ovaries and uteri are what are precious. In wartime, at least. This has been known as long as men have been on earth. Are you some kind of "American exceptionalist" who believes the rules don't apply to us?

    Replies: @danand, @prosa123, @Anonymous

    , @education realist
    @prosa123

    Preach.

    Either send women back to the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, or they get drafted, too.

    "Sorry, guys, you'll go off to fight in a war, meanwhile all the women will get the college placements, the good internships, the good jobs, and when you're back and you marry and have kids, she can divorce you, keep custody of the kids, and charge you for them."

    Fuck that.

    After WWII, they sent Rosie the Riveter home and women even now whine about how unfair it was. Well, then, pony up and fight.

    , @Joe S.Walker
    @prosa123

    If there was a serious draft for women Canada would find itself with a new population of feminists.

    , @animalogic
    @prosa123

    I agree.
    Imagine the response to something like female soldier corpses lapping at the Tarawa shoreline....

  29. @Dan Hayes
    Another long-ago staple, at least in NYC, were reports of multiple Polo Grounds announcements at a football Giants game for military officers to report back to their headquarters!

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jack Armstrong

    True.

  30. @Reg Cæsar
    Amazon Web Services went down in the last hour or so. Probably incompetence or some maintenance issue. But...

    Will the 21st-century Pearl Harbor be virtual?

    Also, they're still trying to slip women into the Selective Service registry. The latest such attempt failed in the House today.

    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/584701-provision-requiring-women-to-register-for-draft-stripped-from-ndaa

    We already have 15 million Americans registered, and are overextended as it is. What do they have in mind that they'll need 30 million for?

    At the height (or depth) of the war in 1944, there was some consideration of drafting nurses, about 97% of whom were women. Enough volunteered to make this unnecessary. If we got through 1944 without drafting women, we can get through the 21st century without registering them.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Kratoklastes, @Buzz Mohawk

    Will the 21st-century Pearl Harbor be virtual?

    More to the point: will the 21st century Pearl Harbour be domestically-perpetrated?

    It would take one reasonably-bright coder who literally doesn’t give a fuck anymore, and 2 weeks of work ‘lethalising’ existing attack vectors on known vulnerabilities. By ‘lethalising’ I mean developing for functionality-destruction, not just temporary, reversible disabling-for-profit.

    Wags now refer to the lethalising aspect as “gain of function” research – for comedic effect.

    Every half-aware 4G theorist knows about the vulnerability of major infrastructure networks – traffic lights; electricity distribution; water purification and distribution; fuel distribution; and of course the internet (particularly credit-circulation). More importantly, they know how to identify critical nodes – and how to emulate a critical node failure by disabling non-critical nodes.

    These things are routinely wargamed, and literally the only thing preventing the entire system from being taken down, is that it seems that nobody wants to do it. This is another ‘dot point’ in my argument for why “global terror networks” are absolute bullshit.

    Nobody wants to do it… yet.

  31. About 40 years ago, I noticed that the single most common bit in the history of American movies was happy people listening to big band music on the radio on December 7, 1941 when they hear: “We interrupt this broadcast …”

    I haven’t heard that in a long time.

    Perhaps 9/11 replaced Pearl Harbor, Jihadists replaced Japanese, etc.

    We don’t seem to hear as much about the Boston Massacre anymore, either.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Not Raul


    We don’t seem to hear as much about the Boston Massacre anymore, either.
     
    Some of at least know what it was and have some idea of its significance.
  32. @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    I am completely opposed to a military draft, but if there ever is one again it god-damned better include women.
    As I've said before, if anyone - I don't care who it is - says in my presence that women shouldn't be in combat because their lives are too precious, the obvious corollary of which is that men are expendable, it will take every last bit of my self control not to physically assault that person. And it may not be enough.

    Note to the autistics on this site who disagree: go die in a fire.

    Replies: @NickG, @Reg Cæsar, @education realist, @Joe S.Walker, @animalogic

    Steady on old chap, pour yourself a stiff one and settle down to a panic.

    • LOL: Tony massey
    • Replies: @Tony massey
    @NickG

    That's a 5 star reply NickG. I'm using that one. Settle down to a panic huh.
    Nice

  33. @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    I am completely opposed to a military draft, but if there ever is one again it god-damned better include women.
    As I've said before, if anyone - I don't care who it is - says in my presence that women shouldn't be in combat because their lives are too precious, the obvious corollary of which is that men are expendable, it will take every last bit of my self control not to physically assault that person. And it may not be enough.

    Note to the autistics on this site who disagree: go die in a fire.

    Replies: @NickG, @Reg Cæsar, @education realist, @Joe S.Walker, @animalogic

    Note to the autistics on this site who disagree: go die in a fire.

    99% of Americans in 1941– and 1971– were “autistic”? I’m a reactionary, not a conservative. I refuse to cuck on this.

    that women shouldn’t be in combat because their lives are too precious

    Their ovaries and uteri are what are precious. In wartime, at least. This has been known as long as men have been on earth. Are you some kind of “American exceptionalist” who believes the rules don’t apply to us?

    • Agree: Not Raul, TWS, Marquis
    • Replies: @danand
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Their ovaries and uteri are what are precious."

    Cæsar, speaking of ovaries, in the off chance those here haven't seen it yet:


    "Musk added that too many, good, smart people think there are too many people in the world and that the population is growing out of control.

    It’s completely the opposite, Musk said, urging people to look at the data. If people don’t have more children, civilization is going to crumble. Mark my words.

    When asked if this is why he has so many children, the father of six said he’s trying to set a good example, adding that he has to practice what he preaches."
     
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/07/elon-musk-civilization-will-crumble-if-we-dont-have-more-children.html

    Replies: @raga10, @Buffalo Joe

    , @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    The US is not some isolated tribe perpetually on the brink of extinction, for which the loss of even a few women could spell demographic disaster. If half of the US combat deaths in Vietnam or even World War II had been women the effects on the nation's long-term demographic growth would have been minimal and completely gone in a generation.

    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are "too delicate" for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that's a different issue). You'll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Finally, some Beta losers think that infantilizing and patronizing women is a surefire way to get magnificent women to drop their panties for them. Newsflash: it doesn't work.

    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj, @Wilkey, @R.G. Camara, @Alfa158, @Kratoklastes, @Hibernian, @David Davenport, @Mike Tre, @nebulafox, @Anonymous

    , @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar


    Are you some kind of “American exceptionalist” who believes the rules don’t apply to us?
     
    Who is “us“? I thought you didn’t identify with the other white people or other Americans.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  34. @Jack D
    First of all, it's Emmett, not Emmitt, and 2nd, a little 1 column inch box down at the bottom of the page, while technically "making the 1st page", barely counts.

    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Japan is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, China, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as.... the death of Emmett Till.

    Pearl Harbor reshaped the life of a generation. Before Pearl Harbor, my mother in law (still kicking at 99) had never traveled beyond 100 miles from her birthplace. Within a couple of years she was following her husband's military postings all across America - to the Deep South, to the Pacific Northwest, etc. Before Pearl Harbor, almost everyone she knew was Jewish and lived in her little Jewish neighborhood. Afterward, she became lifelong friends with a Mexican-American family from California and met people of all backgrounds and religions. Before, her work experience was working in small Jewish owned businesses. Afterward, she worked as a draftsman for a major American corporation that had not generally hired Jews before the war. In short, life was never the same. For better or worse, the little ethnic enclaves that dotted our cities were never the same again. After the war, she and her husband got a VA mortgage and moved out to a former potato field along with people of all sorts of backgrounds while her old neighborhood turned black. But that was a long time ago. How did Pearl Harbor influence my kids' life? Not much.

    Maybe Till's death should also be a dead letter but apparently it isn't. Historical memory is always selective - the CCP talks more about the Opium Wars than it does about the Cultural Revolution or the Tiananmen Square Massacre. For better or for worse, the relationship between Black America and White America is more of a live issue than the relationship between America and Japan.

    Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3, @AndrewR, @Buffalo Joe, @Chrisnonymous, @Ron Mexico, @epebble, @Dave Pinsen, @obwandiyag, @obwandiyag, @Moses, @Richard B

    Jack, I like what you write, but the front page is the front page, so it counts. WWII shaped my parents’ generation in ways that we can’t imagine. My mother had her husband, two brothers-in-law and three brothers all overseas for some of the best years of their lives. No one knew about PTSD back then, but those guys, my dad and uncles, were all affected in some way. Till’s death is the spoon that stirs the shit. Their way of saying, see, Whites never change…Till to Floyd. Stay safe buddy.

    • Agree: Ron Mexico
    • Thanks: SafeNow
    • Replies: @Jake Barnes
    @Buffalo Joe

    Are we all forgetting that Louis Till was as much a victim of the War as anyone?

    , @GeologyAnonMk3
    @Buffalo Joe

    I have to admit, my granddads were an LST skipper, and a Devastator driver, and since I inherited both of their seachests as the Navy heir, going through their diaries and photographs (sequestered for decades from their wives, and my father, who on an insane notion joined the Army instead of Navy) it was 'The best of times, it was the worst of times' in their lives. I'm truly sorry, with no irony that your family had a different experience. I think often about my great-uncles who were KIA, whose family lines were snipped, leaving just me. Much was lost. Would that everyone came back uninjured.

  35. In today’s news vernacular….’Pearl Harbor, some guys did some thing, but it was too long ago.’ Had the Japs bombed black wall street, it would still be page one.

    • LOL: magilla
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Buffalo Joe

    Japanese did not attack Pearl Harbor. Some airplanes did.

    Get yer news vernacular right.

    , @Voltarde
    @Buffalo Joe

    Japan managed to bomb Omaha, Nebraska in WWII, so they were getting close!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Omaha,_Nebraska#World_War_II

    , @reactionry
    @Buffalo Joe

    LOL - nice appropriation of Ilhan Omar's 9/11 "did some thing[s]" muttering.
    In that spirit one could also describe Pearl Harbor/Dec. 7 as a "senseless tragedy." Gawd knows how many times I've done an eye roll because of a misuse of the word "senseless" and Reg Caesar's recent post along those lines was good to read. "Tragedy" is as well grotesquely out of place here and better used in the context of say, an earthquake.
    A couple days or so ago a lifelong affliction with procrastination prevented posting in a similar vein on the Emmett Till Thread......



    Emmett Till was a victim of senseless gun violence.
    His death was a senseless tragedy.
    And so on.
    The following link provides the most loathsome mangling of language I've run across lately. I was able to find it again for posting by entering "seize" into a search. I'm not sure if Steve Sailer has at some point seized on the word "seize," but he definitely pounced on the word "pounced" not too long ago.

    https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2021/11/23/after-waukesha-christmas-parade-massacre-trying-to-make-sense-of-senseless-violence/

    BTW I'm reasonably certain no offense was taken if you stumbled across my earlier silly stringing of Admiral Rachel Levine/Actor Ted Levine aka Jame Gumb and Buffalo Bill (who, unlike Buffalo Joe, "skins his humps")
    Reply Reply All Forward

  36. @Reg Cæsar
    Amazon Web Services went down in the last hour or so. Probably incompetence or some maintenance issue. But...

    Will the 21st-century Pearl Harbor be virtual?

    Also, they're still trying to slip women into the Selective Service registry. The latest such attempt failed in the House today.

    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/584701-provision-requiring-women-to-register-for-draft-stripped-from-ndaa

    We already have 15 million Americans registered, and are overextended as it is. What do they have in mind that they'll need 30 million for?

    At the height (or depth) of the war in 1944, there was some consideration of drafting nurses, about 97% of whom were women. Enough volunteered to make this unnecessary. If we got through 1944 without drafting women, we can get through the 21st century without registering them.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Kratoklastes, @Buzz Mohawk

    When, during the Carter administration, Selective Service registration was brought back, I resented it as a young man with vivid memory of what a farce the recent Vietnam War really had been. I have felt ever since that young women should indeed be required to register if young men are.

    This is because I am against the whole thing. I hold this opinion because the wars my country has engaged in have increasingly been based on the lies and follies of an elite not at risk, in service of a global empire that does not belong to me or to the vast majority of my fellow Americans.

    There is plenty of work that can be done by women in order to support war efforts. My mother sewed parachutes during WWII (itself a war — based on lies and manipulations — that the United States should never have entered — and certainly not on the wrong side of.)

    My aunt joined the WAVES and worked stateside in a Navy office. Why not draft women into all that kind of work here at home, as military conscripts, and enforce military discipline? They are not suitable for combat or any other historically male, military role.

    By all means, force them to register to serve in a military fashion. Have their names, addresses and social security numbers ready if you are going to do that to men. Maybe then more American women would be against wars built on lies.

    • Agree: JMcG
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    Maybe then more American women would be against wars built on lies.
     
    For the first five or six decades after 1920, women were more Republican than men were. That suggests they are, or were, less eager for war. Bob Dole was vilified for his 1976 debate comment not because it was false, but because it was true.

    FDR: Bitte greifen Sie uns an! Wir brauchen eine Entschuldigung, um in den Krieg einzutreten.

    Tōjō Hideki: 私たちはあなたに義務を負わせて幸せです!

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    When, during the Carter administration, Selective Service registration was brought back...
     
    A few years later I had to sign a financial aid form confirming my SSS status. As a veteran, I was exempt from the requirement to register (we were already in the system, duh) and checked the box for "I am a veteran". In my last year of school I also checked "I have passed my 26th birthday". There was another box for non-immigrant foreign students.

    It occurred to me that yet another box could have been included: "I am a woman." That would have been instructive.

    SSS is one of the last Federal agencies not to recognize the "transgender" farce. That alone makes its retention useful. I would lower the voting age for anyone (except illegal aliens) subject to registration during the following Congress. This would be a great teaching moment for teenagers-- but only if one sex is registered.

    Just in from your homeland:


    Suspect who deployed bear spray during shoplifting incident at Greeley Walmart arrested

    Replies: @Haxo Angmark

    , @JMcG
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Agreed. It’s the hundredth anniversary of the signing of the treaty that ended the Anglo-Irish War. The Irish Civil War started immediately. If any one of those men knew they were fighting and dying and killing their brothers for a republic that would embrace homosexuality and Islam and prioritize african immigrants over their own countrymen when it comes to jobs and school and housing, they’d have turned their rifles on themselves.

  37. Emmitt Till is relevant to tdestroybg the cohesion of the domestic enemy, which is the now-redundant-as-workers traditional working class, who by electing Trump showed they constitute an immediate threat to the elite getting richer off of selling out to China.

    Pearl Harbor would create the rise of China means will make traditional population perhaps not so redundant as cannon fodder as they are as workers who make things, so the White Demonisation/Death is maybe a bad idea.

  38. @Achmed E. Newman
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Thanks and LOL.

    I know you didn't make the map, but can you tell me why Iran is "West Korea"?

    Replies: @Jon, @Chrisnonymous, @tyrone, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    West Korea is a play on North Korea, not South: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=north+korea+iran&t=brave&ia=web

  39. @Buffalo Joe
    In today's news vernacular....'Pearl Harbor, some guys did some thing, but it was too long ago.' Had the Japs bombed black wall street, it would still be page one.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Voltarde, @reactionry

    Japanese did not attack Pearl Harbor. Some airplanes did.

    Get yer news vernacular right.

    • LOL: Buffalo Joe, SafeNow
  40. “American movies was happy people listening to big band music…”

    Seems to me Big Band music is buried deeper in the dustbin than “those damn Japs”:

    Midway Attack Scenes from Three Movies: Midway (1976), Yamamoto Isoroku (2011) and Midway (2019)

    As they say, “never forget” while cruising down the road in the Toyota.

    • Thanks: Captain Tripps, Franz
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @danand


    As they say, “never forget” while cruising down the road in the Toyota.
     
    And eating their pretzels and pizzas and tacos and drinking their Tetley Earl Grey.
    , @Captain Tripps
    @danand

    I had a great uncle who was at Pearl Harbor; he also served in the Korean War. Good man; he died in the early 90's in his very nice home on the outskirts of Jackson, MS. Grew up around several men who went overseas during that period. Probably what inspired me to join up after college ROTC for a career; kind of felt like I owed it to them (and my Dad and Uncle who served). I know a lot of our commentariat here believe it is a fool's errand to sign up today, and I am sympathetic to their POV. Was hoping my Son would find a new path, but once he turned 18 I couldn't talk him out of joining the USMC.

    I enjoyed your Midway mash-up; I bow in honor of those Navy pilots with guts of solid steel riding down the tracer lines and AA bursts straight to their target and delivering. But as a old retired Army paratrooper with a son in the Corps, I silently pray for the spirits of Eugene Sledge and John Basilone to watch over him:

    https://youtu.be/6bxNVsC5P7g

    https://youtu.be/wD3F16J42Eo

    , @Paco Wové
    @danand

    A nice capsule demonstration of how CGI has helped transform movies into overblown video games.

  41. Their ovaries and uteri are what are precious. In wartime, at least. This has been known as long as men have been on earth.

    It is true though that the idea of expandability of men is somewhat toxic – in particular to us, men. Ovaries on the other hand are somewhat overrated; it takes at least somewhere between 15 to 18 years to turn an embryo into a viable soldier and chances are the war will be finished by then. The days of 100-year wars are over (assuming they ever existed in the first place – “100 year war” was not really a continuous war but a series of shorter conflicts)

  42. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    WWII vets are getting really thin on the ground.
     
    And thick in the ground. A 90-year-old today was 14 at the end of the war.

    Derb once mentioned his son complaining that his friends' grandfathers had fought in Vietnam, while his own had fought in the First World War. This was about 20 years ago, too.

    Time dress-parades on.

    Replies: @D. K., @Bardon Kaldian, @PiltdownMan

    My late mother’s lone surviving sibling is one of three of my aunts who survive, alongside none of my uncles. One week after the United States Congress declared war on Japan, she turned 15. On her 16th birthday, her future brother-in-law’s Coast Guard cutter sank a new U-boat, out on its maiden patrol:

    ***

    Ingham served with distinction during World War II on convoy duty. Protecting ships ferrying vital supplies to Britain, Ingham battled stormy weather, German U-boats, and enemy aircraft. On 15 December 1942, during one crossing, Ingham engaged and sank the enemy submarine U-626.[4] After 1944, Ingham served as an amphibious flagship and she would later take part in three campaigns in the Pacific Theater. Ingham was the last active warship in the US fleet with a U-Boat kill.

    ***

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Ingham_(WHEC-35)#History_1934–1988

    During its time as a flagship in the Pacific Theater, General Douglas MacArthur himself once was aboard the Ingham. My eldest brother was named after him, a few years later.

    ***

    U-626 was assigned to the 5th U-boat Flotilla for basic training, and upon completion was permanently assigned to the 6th U-boat Flotilla.[1] On 8 December 1942, U-626, under the direction of Leutnant zur See (acting sub-lieutenant/ensign) Hans-Botho Bade left Bergen, Norway for her maiden patrol.[1] The USCGC Ingham along with USS Babbitt and USS Leary were in the middle of escort duties near Iceland, while U-626 was on its first patrol.[3] On 15 December the USCGC Ingham scouted ahead of the other escorts in search of a larger convoy.[3] The cutter made sonar contact with a “doubtful” object and dropped one 600 pound depth charge at U-626 sinking the ship and killing the crew of 47.[1][3] The cutter continued on without incident, without even knowing that it sank U-626.[3] This was the last U-boat of 1942 to be sunk by an American agency, and it was not known until after the war that Ingham had sunk U-626.[3]

    ***

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-626#Service_history

  43. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Reg Cæsar

    When, during the Carter administration, Selective Service registration was brought back, I resented it as a young man with vivid memory of what a farce the recent Vietnam War really had been. I have felt ever since that young women should indeed be required to register if young men are.

    This is because I am against the whole thing. I hold this opinion because the wars my country has engaged in have increasingly been based on the lies and follies of an elite not at risk, in service of a global empire that does not belong to me or to the vast majority of my fellow Americans.

    There is plenty of work that can be done by women in order to support war efforts. My mother sewed parachutes during WWII (itself a war -- based on lies and manipulations -- that the United States should never have entered -- and certainly not on the wrong side of.)

    My aunt joined the WAVES and worked stateside in a Navy office. Why not draft women into all that kind of work here at home, as military conscripts, and enforce military discipline? They are not suitable for combat or any other historically male, military role.

    By all means, force them to register to serve in a military fashion. Have their names, addresses and social security numbers ready if you are going to do that to men. Maybe then more American women would be against wars built on lies.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Reg Cæsar, @JMcG

    Maybe then more American women would be against wars built on lies.

    For the first five or six decades after 1920, women were more Republican than men were. That suggests they are, or were, less eager for war. Bob Dole was vilified for his 1976 debate comment not because it was false, but because it was true.

    FDR: Bitte greifen Sie uns an! Wir brauchen eine Entschuldigung, um in den Krieg einzutreten.

    Tōjō Hideki: 私たちはあなたに義務を負わせて幸せです!

    • Agree: Mark G.
  44. @Reg Cæsar
    @prosa123


    Note to the autistics on this site who disagree: go die in a fire.
     
    99% of Americans in 1941-- and 1971-- were "autistic"? I'm a reactionary, not a conservative. I refuse to cuck on this.

    that women shouldn’t be in combat because their lives are too precious
     
    Their ovaries and uteri are what are precious. In wartime, at least. This has been known as long as men have been on earth. Are you some kind of "American exceptionalist" who believes the rules don't apply to us?

    Replies: @danand, @prosa123, @Anonymous

    “Their ovaries and uteri are what are precious.”

    Cæsar, speaking of ovaries, in the off chance those here haven’t seen it yet:

    “Musk added that too many, good, smart people think there are too many people in the world and that the population is growing out of control.

    It’s completely the opposite, Musk said, urging people to look at the data. If people don’t have more children, civilization is going to crumble. Mark my words.

    When asked if this is why he has so many children, the father of six said he’s trying to set a good example, adding that he has to practice what he preaches.”

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/07/elon-musk-civilization-will-crumble-if-we-dont-have-more-children.html

    • Replies: @raga10
    @danand


    If people don’t have more children, civilization is going to crumble. Mark my words.
     
    Civilisation doesn't need any more people and if it is going to crumble it certainly won't be for lack of people! Proof lies in the fact that population was basically stable at around one billion people until the end of the 19th century and I think not many sane people would argue that civilisation is an invention more recent than that.

    It's CAPITALISM and not civilisation that needs always growing population. Musk is a capitalist so perhaps to him civilisation and capitalism are one and the same, but again - history says he is wrong about that.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @danand

    dan, Musk is entitled to his opinion, which is stated form his lofty, but earned, level of privlege. Problem is, at least in some American communities, fathering children, but not contributing to their upbringing is the problem. Actually, that is the source of many of America's seemingly unsolvable problems.

  45. @Jack D
    First of all, it's Emmett, not Emmitt, and 2nd, a little 1 column inch box down at the bottom of the page, while technically "making the 1st page", barely counts.

    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Japan is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, China, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as.... the death of Emmett Till.

    Pearl Harbor reshaped the life of a generation. Before Pearl Harbor, my mother in law (still kicking at 99) had never traveled beyond 100 miles from her birthplace. Within a couple of years she was following her husband's military postings all across America - to the Deep South, to the Pacific Northwest, etc. Before Pearl Harbor, almost everyone she knew was Jewish and lived in her little Jewish neighborhood. Afterward, she became lifelong friends with a Mexican-American family from California and met people of all backgrounds and religions. Before, her work experience was working in small Jewish owned businesses. Afterward, she worked as a draftsman for a major American corporation that had not generally hired Jews before the war. In short, life was never the same. For better or worse, the little ethnic enclaves that dotted our cities were never the same again. After the war, she and her husband got a VA mortgage and moved out to a former potato field along with people of all sorts of backgrounds while her old neighborhood turned black. But that was a long time ago. How did Pearl Harbor influence my kids' life? Not much.

    Maybe Till's death should also be a dead letter but apparently it isn't. Historical memory is always selective - the CCP talks more about the Opium Wars than it does about the Cultural Revolution or the Tiananmen Square Massacre. For better or for worse, the relationship between Black America and White America is more of a live issue than the relationship between America and Japan.

    Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3, @AndrewR, @Buffalo Joe, @Chrisnonymous, @Ron Mexico, @epebble, @Dave Pinsen, @obwandiyag, @obwandiyag, @Moses, @Richard B

    Historical memory is always selective –

    You’re actually making the same exact point as Steve here, except that your take is like “the SUV drove into the parade” while Steve’s take is like “the man drove his SUV into the parade”.

    It is beyond the living memory

    This is all the more reason that competent, honest, patriotic journalists would focus on it today. If I were editor, I would use Dec 7 as an excuse to have articles that reflect on the US’s current position in the world and how it got there as well as the lessons the event might have for our situation with the current rising belligerent Asian superpower.

  46. Boomers gonna boom.

    Jews gonna kvetch using blacks as front men.

    That said…

    FDR may have definitely provoked the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, but still — the moment is significant. Five years later the U.S. was the far and away undisputed #1 seafaring power in the world, guaranteeing American economic success for as long as she held the title.

    I’ve long said our victory over the Japanese in WW2 was more important than our victory over the national socialists in Europe. Not only did we contribute a larger percentage of the winning side against the Japanese than the Germans, but our victory was more fortune-building for us. The Soviets and Brits might have won without us in Europe, but the Japanese would have taken over the oceans without us.

    We often joke that “without us, the world would be speaking German” but its far more likely that without us, the entire world would speak Japanese as a second language — otherwise, nothing could be shipped out on a boat.

  47. Q: What do you get with somebody half-Black and half-Japanese?
    A: I don’t know, but every December 7 they want to bomb Pearl Bailey!

    “First of all, I want to apologize for your Harbor.” – comedian Pat Morita, opening a stand-up comedy show on a December 7 in the Hickam Officer’s Club in Oahu, HI.

  48. @danand
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Their ovaries and uteri are what are precious."

    Cæsar, speaking of ovaries, in the off chance those here haven't seen it yet:


    "Musk added that too many, good, smart people think there are too many people in the world and that the population is growing out of control.

    It’s completely the opposite, Musk said, urging people to look at the data. If people don’t have more children, civilization is going to crumble. Mark my words.

    When asked if this is why he has so many children, the father of six said he’s trying to set a good example, adding that he has to practice what he preaches."
     
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/07/elon-musk-civilization-will-crumble-if-we-dont-have-more-children.html

    Replies: @raga10, @Buffalo Joe

    If people don’t have more children, civilization is going to crumble. Mark my words.

    Civilisation doesn’t need any more people and if it is going to crumble it certainly won’t be for lack of people! Proof lies in the fact that population was basically stable at around one billion people until the end of the 19th century and I think not many sane people would argue that civilisation is an invention more recent than that.

    It’s CAPITALISM and not civilisation that needs always growing population. Musk is a capitalist so perhaps to him civilisation and capitalism are one and the same, but again – history says he is wrong about that.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @raga10


    Civilisation doesn’t need any more people and if it is going to crumble it certainly won’t be for lack of people!
     
    Raga10, you missed Musk's point.

    I'll highlight the key words:

    Musk added that too many “good, smart people” think there are too many people in the world and that the population is growing out of control.

    “It’s completely the opposite,” Musk said, urging people to look at the data. “If people don’t have more children, civilization is going to crumble.
     
    Musk knows perfectly that Africa's population is exploding. His comment is directly to "good smart people"--the sort of people who create and maintain "civilization". You can't ask him to make it any clearer and get himself or Tesla cancelled.

    Replies: @raga10

  49. @Jack D
    First of all, it's Emmett, not Emmitt, and 2nd, a little 1 column inch box down at the bottom of the page, while technically "making the 1st page", barely counts.

    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Japan is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, China, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as.... the death of Emmett Till.

    Pearl Harbor reshaped the life of a generation. Before Pearl Harbor, my mother in law (still kicking at 99) had never traveled beyond 100 miles from her birthplace. Within a couple of years she was following her husband's military postings all across America - to the Deep South, to the Pacific Northwest, etc. Before Pearl Harbor, almost everyone she knew was Jewish and lived in her little Jewish neighborhood. Afterward, she became lifelong friends with a Mexican-American family from California and met people of all backgrounds and religions. Before, her work experience was working in small Jewish owned businesses. Afterward, she worked as a draftsman for a major American corporation that had not generally hired Jews before the war. In short, life was never the same. For better or worse, the little ethnic enclaves that dotted our cities were never the same again. After the war, she and her husband got a VA mortgage and moved out to a former potato field along with people of all sorts of backgrounds while her old neighborhood turned black. But that was a long time ago. How did Pearl Harbor influence my kids' life? Not much.

    Maybe Till's death should also be a dead letter but apparently it isn't. Historical memory is always selective - the CCP talks more about the Opium Wars than it does about the Cultural Revolution or the Tiananmen Square Massacre. For better or for worse, the relationship between Black America and White America is more of a live issue than the relationship between America and Japan.

    Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3, @AndrewR, @Buffalo Joe, @Chrisnonymous, @Ron Mexico, @epebble, @Dave Pinsen, @obwandiyag, @obwandiyag, @Moses, @Richard B

    “How did Pearl Harbor influence my kids’ life?
    Ask the same question about Till.

  50. @Achmed E. Newman
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Thanks and LOL.

    I know you didn't make the map, but can you tell me why Iran is "West Korea"?

    Replies: @Jon, @Chrisnonymous, @tyrone, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Unfortunately the map is not well thought out. It is an excuse to call China whiners and Filipinos cheap dates, which are both true and funny, but much of the rest doesn’t make sense, reflecting lack of knowledge about Japanese stereotypes. For example, to Japanese, Mongolians are not “horsefuckers”, which isn’t even an idiom in Japanese. If you ask Japanese people about Mongolia, they immediately think of “genghis khan”, which is their name for a kind of grilled meat dish with lamb. (Japanese have to be told that it is exotic foreign food to be induced to eat stinky lamb, which by the way they call “ram”, which is also funny…). Also, many think of Taiwan as a different as a different place altogether, not fake China, reflecting the history of Taiwan as a Japanese colony that heavily “Japanified”. Korea is very touchy. Many would call them whiners more than China (due to the comfort women issue) but others just think of them as “cool” for Kpop. Many Japanese actually have a benign or positive view of Iran. Unlike the US, the Iranians in Japan tend to be well-educated and nice researchers.

  51. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Reg Cæsar

    When, during the Carter administration, Selective Service registration was brought back, I resented it as a young man with vivid memory of what a farce the recent Vietnam War really had been. I have felt ever since that young women should indeed be required to register if young men are.

    This is because I am against the whole thing. I hold this opinion because the wars my country has engaged in have increasingly been based on the lies and follies of an elite not at risk, in service of a global empire that does not belong to me or to the vast majority of my fellow Americans.

    There is plenty of work that can be done by women in order to support war efforts. My mother sewed parachutes during WWII (itself a war -- based on lies and manipulations -- that the United States should never have entered -- and certainly not on the wrong side of.)

    My aunt joined the WAVES and worked stateside in a Navy office. Why not draft women into all that kind of work here at home, as military conscripts, and enforce military discipline? They are not suitable for combat or any other historically male, military role.

    By all means, force them to register to serve in a military fashion. Have their names, addresses and social security numbers ready if you are going to do that to men. Maybe then more American women would be against wars built on lies.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Reg Cæsar, @JMcG

    When, during the Carter administration, Selective Service registration was brought back…

    A few years later I had to sign a financial aid form confirming my SSS status. As a veteran, I was exempt from the requirement to register (we were already in the system, duh) and checked the box for “I am a veteran”. In my last year of school I also checked “I have passed my 26th birthday”. There was another box for non-immigrant foreign students.

    It occurred to me that yet another box could have been included: “I am a woman.” That would have been instructive.

    SSS is one of the last Federal agencies not to recognize the “transgender” farce. That alone makes its retention useful. I would lower the voting age for anyone (except illegal aliens) subject to registration during the following Congress. This would be a great teaching moment for teenagers– but only if one sex is registered.

    Just in from your homeland:

    Suspect who deployed bear spray during shoplifting incident at Greeley Walmart arrested

    • Replies: @Haxo Angmark
    @Reg Cæsar

    yesterday on my daily local bike ride in rural Utah, 2 small dogs tried to Pearl Harbor me. Hoping to outride their little short legs I led them a merry chase for about 1/2 mile, but they kept dogging my heels. So spun around and gave them a good blast of bear spray. Solved that problem, and so far have not been arrested.

  52. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    The point is to not remind why it was then with China against Japan, and now it's the other way around.

    CCP's narrative is that the Japanese are not sorry for nuffin for starting the war, they are only sorry for losing.


    Can’t believe these two events are happening at the same time. What it tells? pic.twitter.com/de5VCTiluI— Chen Weihua (陈卫华) (@chenweihua) December 7, 2021
     
    This is true to an extent--
    https://imgur.com/2mZYi1m

    Whereas from Japan's perspective, they've always had less to fear from faraway United States, than an Asian continental superpower, PRC, USSR, Mongol Empire.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Chrisnonymous, @SteveRogers42, @John Derbyshire, @The Wild Geese Howard, @anono

    My wife celebrated Pearl Harbor Day by sticking her ice cold fingers under my shirt when I got home from work.

  53. @prosa123
    @Jack D

    The last US WWI veteran died in 2011 so the last WWII vet will probably expire in the next 15 years or so.

    Pretty much. Chances are the very last veteran in the world will be German, as in the last few months before its surrender German was using 12-year-old boys in combat.

    Fun fact: the last widow of a Civil War veteran died just last year at the age of 101. In 1936 Helen Viola Jackson worked as housekeeper for 93-year-old veteran James Bolin, a neighbor of her impoverished family in Missouri. When he ran out of money, her family came up with a plan under which she would marry him and collect his pension when he died. She did not move in with him and the marriage remained a secret outside her family. When Bolin died in 1939, Jackson was all set to collect her widow's pension but decided against it after Bolin's angry children threatened to expose her as a scammer.

    Esther Sumner Damon, the last widow of a Revolutionary War veteran, died in 1906.

    Replies: @houston 1992

    2010 article includes a table displaying beneficiaries , including veterans children, by war . Bierce said war was God’s way of teaching Americans geography, so I supposed beneficiaries tables are perhaps one of His ways of teaching the USA population wars’ legacy costs …USA remains a slow learner in this regard

    https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-08-08/civil-war-vets-pension-still-remains-on-governments-payroll-151-years-after-last-shot-fired

  54. @danand
    "American movies was happy people listening to big band music..."

    Seems to me Big Band music is buried deeper in the dustbin than "those damn Japs":


    Midway Attack Scenes from Three Movies: Midway (1976), Yamamoto Isoroku (2011) and Midway (2019)
    https://youtu.be/Wj4Oy7miCLg

    As they say, "never forget" while cruising down the road in the Toyota.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Captain Tripps, @Paco Wové

    As they say, “never forget” while cruising down the road in the Toyota.

    And eating their pretzels and pizzas and tacos and drinking their Tetley Earl Grey.

  55. @Reg Cæsar
    @prosa123


    Note to the autistics on this site who disagree: go die in a fire.
     
    99% of Americans in 1941-- and 1971-- were "autistic"? I'm a reactionary, not a conservative. I refuse to cuck on this.

    that women shouldn’t be in combat because their lives are too precious
     
    Their ovaries and uteri are what are precious. In wartime, at least. This has been known as long as men have been on earth. Are you some kind of "American exceptionalist" who believes the rules don't apply to us?

    Replies: @danand, @prosa123, @Anonymous

    The US is not some isolated tribe perpetually on the brink of extinction, for which the loss of even a few women could spell demographic disaster. If half of the US combat deaths in Vietnam or even World War II had been women the effects on the nation’s long-term demographic growth would have been minimal and completely gone in a generation.

    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are “too delicate” for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that’s a different issue). You’ll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Finally, some Beta losers think that infantilizing and patronizing women is a surefire way to get magnificent women to drop their panties for them. Newsflash: it doesn’t work.

    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.

    • LOL: Kylie
    • Troll: R.G. Camara, TWS, Gordo
    • Replies: @74v56ruthiyj
    @prosa123

    My experience, not theory, is that male opposition to women in combat is fear that we'll get killed trying to pick up the slack for them.

    Replies: @TWS

    , @Wilkey
    @prosa123


    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.
     
    Every single physically demanding job, in this and every other country, is male dominated. Not a few of them, but all of them. You can easily live your entire life without seeing a woman perform some of these jobs. But yeah, somehow that reality has no bearing on whether or not women should serve in combat. If you say so.

    The modern, high tech military has plenty of jobs far away from the battlefield which women can do, and are quite good at. There is no need to send them into combat. The US has not won a major war in 76 years. Maybe it’s time to learn a thing or two from the last generation that actually did.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @R.G. Camara
    @prosa123


    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.
     
    lol. And my theory is your unnatural and anti-civilizational fantasies stem from your being raised without a biological father in the home and/or with a feminazi mother.

    Let's see whose beliefs are more likely to be right.

    , @Alfa158
    @prosa123

    Autistics like yourself will be shocked to hear the following:
    - no military in the world assigns women to front line combat duty, and for good reason.
    - the current and proposed ACFT are skewed to help women, and yet only 10% of women in the US military met the required fitness levels for combat, even after training for the tests. Even including non-combat roles, only 30% passed.
    -I go to a commercial gym at least three times a week. Those “ultrafit hardbodied” women are less than a few percent of the clientele. I suspect your familiarity with gyms is limited to the commercials on TV where every woman is an “ultrafit hardbody” showing men how to bench 350. Many of the non-fictional UH will probably still flunk a test which requires them to meet the brute strength requirements for combat. An 80 pound crate of mortar shells that has to be humped to the top of a hill isn’t going to pro-rate itself to a lower mass just because a woman is trying to carry it.

    As far as I’m concerned, the few women who can actually meet exactly the same standards as men are perfectly welcome to join combat squads.( Good luck, and better them than me, I was in the Air Force ).But that is not what this is about. Women want to squeeze into any kind of nominally combat position because that helps them get promoted into higher ranks faster.

    Replies: @Tony massey, @Jim Don Bob

    , @Kratoklastes
    @prosa123


    I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that’s a different issue). You’ll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.
     
    Yeah... then find a guy with the exact same dimensions (height; weight; waist circumference) and put them against one another in a standard task requiring strength, stamina, or both... and watch the woman wilt in half the time that it takes to exhaust the guy.

    The average 'hardbodied' woman in my local gym was maybe 5'5", 125lb - similar stats to Anastasia Yankova (who - let's be frank - is not that good a fighter).

    Well-toned women are nice to look at, but that's not gonna enable them to hump their own pack & weapon and enough ammo, food and water to last more than a day.

    By all means - you go be the gentleman, and be a porter for people who shouldn't be there. They'll send a helo to retrieve the bodies.
    , @Hibernian
    @prosa123


    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are “too delicate” for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that’s a different issue). You’ll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.
     
    Some women are very athletic... ...compared to other women. If you don't understand that, you're hopeless.
    , @David Davenport
    @prosa123

    You’ll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Do they have plenty of tattoos, on their thighs as well as arms and shoulders??

    , @Mike Tre
    @prosa123

    My theory is that you proscribe to yourself a fairly complex combination of mind altering narcotics on a daily basis.

    , @nebulafox
    @prosa123

    What I'm skeptical of is the efficacy of mixed units, largely because it's bad for combat discipline. Anybody who understands anything at all about men will understand how deeply ingrained the instinct to protect women is, even if that were to put missions at risk. I also don't need to tell you about what can happen to female POWs captured by the enemy, and the resulting impact on discipline (the men will likely seek revenge, possibly against civilians) and/or morale. If we employed the Israeli or WWII Soviet model, with women largely being in their own units, or in combat support teams when mixed with men, it'd be a different story.

    (Don't believe me? Look at how a typical man responds to a typical woman crying. We'll often do or say just about anything to get them to stop. Why? It's *biologically driven discomfort*. Many women probably feel something similar with children in a way men don't, excepting their own, for comparison's sake.)

    TBH, right now, the majority of Americans below 35 can't pass the physical tests to enlist anyway, male and female alike. I think that should be the primary problem we're all focusing on rather than questions of equity or diversity or whatever.

    Replies: @prosa123

    , @Anonymous
    @prosa123


    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are “too delicate” for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that’s a different issue). You’ll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.
     
    Ask any one of them to do 10 pull-ups.

    What you’ll see is a lot of squeaking, a little grunting, a few will squint their eyes and bunch up their faces while betraying their white spandex shorts with unsightly brown spots… but little to no repetitions to be accounted for.

    Then maybe try convincing Serena Williams to play a tennis match against the top male tennis player, and watch her lose every single set, every single time, while running breathlessly about the court, cast as that man’s bitch. For eternity. Now try every other standard professional directly competitive athletic event requiring power and coordination.

    Look at all those failed women, featuring soiled panties! 😮

    Now siddown and shuddup, missy. And thank your flipping god that mens chivalry has dictated keeping your kind off the front lines, so far.

    https://youtu.be/oHS6tYAbAdw

    Replies: @68W58

  56. @Reg Cæsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    When, during the Carter administration, Selective Service registration was brought back...
     
    A few years later I had to sign a financial aid form confirming my SSS status. As a veteran, I was exempt from the requirement to register (we were already in the system, duh) and checked the box for "I am a veteran". In my last year of school I also checked "I have passed my 26th birthday". There was another box for non-immigrant foreign students.

    It occurred to me that yet another box could have been included: "I am a woman." That would have been instructive.

    SSS is one of the last Federal agencies not to recognize the "transgender" farce. That alone makes its retention useful. I would lower the voting age for anyone (except illegal aliens) subject to registration during the following Congress. This would be a great teaching moment for teenagers-- but only if one sex is registered.

    Just in from your homeland:


    Suspect who deployed bear spray during shoplifting incident at Greeley Walmart arrested

    Replies: @Haxo Angmark

    yesterday on my daily local bike ride in rural Utah, 2 small dogs tried to Pearl Harbor me. Hoping to outride their little short legs I led them a merry chase for about 1/2 mile, but they kept dogging my heels. So spun around and gave them a good blast of bear spray. Solved that problem, and so far have not been arrested.

  57. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    WWII vets are getting really thin on the ground.
     
    And thick in the ground. A 90-year-old today was 14 at the end of the war.

    Derb once mentioned his son complaining that his friends' grandfathers had fought in Vietnam, while his own had fought in the First World War. This was about 20 years ago, too.

    Time dress-parades on.

    Replies: @D. K., @Bardon Kaldian, @PiltdownMan

    Derb once mentioned his son complaining that his friends’ grandfathers had fought in Vietnam, while his own had fought in the First World War.

    Derb is a genius

  58. @Buzz Mohawk

    ... people listening to big band music on the radio on December 7, 1941 when they hear: “We interrupt this broadcast …”
     
    The next day, my father was helping his father stack cans for an S&W Foods display in a grocery store, when FDR came on the radio and gave his "Day of Infamy" speech.

    My grandfather, a regional sales manager for S&W, had served as an infantryman in WWI and advised my father not to wait to be drafted. Dad joined the Navy and went from a first-year engineering student at Modesto Junior College to an officer-in-training and engineering student at Cornell.

    He met my mother while stationed in Florida, went on to a great career and produced me.

    World War Two "been berry berry good to me."

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @David In TN

    With a lot of us, our parents met when and where they did because of WW II.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @David In TN


    With a lot of us, our parents met when and where they did because of WW II.
     
    That would be damn close to every person in most countries on the planet under the age of 75. And the further you get from the event, the higher percentage rises of people who would never have been born.

    My response to the people who would “travel back in time to kill Hitler” is that they would be killing billions of people to save the lives of 50 million or so people who would all mostly be dead by now anyway.

    , @Rex Little
    @David In TN


    With a lot of us, our parents met when and where they did because of WW II.
     
    Not me. My parents met in college a few months before Pearl Harbor, and would have married sooner than they did if my father hadn't been drafted. So WWII probably put off my birth for a couple of years.
  59. @Altai

    (huge part of the civic religion when I was a kid)
     
    I mean, they made a big deal about it on the 70th anniversary too, not so long ago.

    Replies: @Boomthorkell, @Jack D, @AndrewR, @Hypnotoad666

    BTW, there is a good WWII YouTube history channel that did a series of episodes, with an almost second-by-second breakdown of the Pearl Harbor attack, using archival footage and computer animation. It’s pretty good.

    • Thanks: Captain Tripps
  60. @danand
    "American movies was happy people listening to big band music..."

    Seems to me Big Band music is buried deeper in the dustbin than "those damn Japs":


    Midway Attack Scenes from Three Movies: Midway (1976), Yamamoto Isoroku (2011) and Midway (2019)
    https://youtu.be/Wj4Oy7miCLg

    As they say, "never forget" while cruising down the road in the Toyota.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Captain Tripps, @Paco Wové

    I had a great uncle who was at Pearl Harbor; he also served in the Korean War. Good man; he died in the early 90’s in his very nice home on the outskirts of Jackson, MS. Grew up around several men who went overseas during that period. Probably what inspired me to join up after college ROTC for a career; kind of felt like I owed it to them (and my Dad and Uncle who served). I know a lot of our commentariat here believe it is a fool’s errand to sign up today, and I am sympathetic to their POV. Was hoping my Son would find a new path, but once he turned 18 I couldn’t talk him out of joining the USMC.

    I enjoyed your Midway mash-up; I bow in honor of those Navy pilots with guts of solid steel riding down the tracer lines and AA bursts straight to their target and delivering. But as a old retired Army paratrooper with a son in the Corps, I silently pray for the spirits of Eugene Sledge and John Basilone to watch over him:

    • Thanks: Tony massey
  61. For decades after Pearl Harbor, it was known as the “sneak” attack. The reason was that, at the time of the attack, Japanese foreign-service officials in Washington were very actively negotiating for peace. The adjective “sneak” got changed to “surprise” several decades later; Japan was our ally; okay, fair enough. The logical problem I have with “surprise” is that ALL attacks are to some degree a surprise. “Surprise” is still used very often. I think using no adjective makes more sense. And btw, a second problem with “surprise” is that there is a semi-meritorious revisionist argument that FDR knew it was coming.

  62. @Jack D
    @Altai

    I think on the 70th anniversary there were still a bunch of guys alive who had been there but they knew that most of them wouldn't be around for the 80th. So this was like the last big hurrah. WWII vets are getting really thin on the ground.

    The last US WWI veteran died in 2011 so the last WWII vet will probably expire in the next 15 years or so.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @prosa123, @Hapalong Cassidy

    And the last Holocaust survivor will pass on – probably never.

  63. @Jack D
    First of all, it's Emmett, not Emmitt, and 2nd, a little 1 column inch box down at the bottom of the page, while technically "making the 1st page", barely counts.

    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Japan is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, China, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as.... the death of Emmett Till.

    Pearl Harbor reshaped the life of a generation. Before Pearl Harbor, my mother in law (still kicking at 99) had never traveled beyond 100 miles from her birthplace. Within a couple of years she was following her husband's military postings all across America - to the Deep South, to the Pacific Northwest, etc. Before Pearl Harbor, almost everyone she knew was Jewish and lived in her little Jewish neighborhood. Afterward, she became lifelong friends with a Mexican-American family from California and met people of all backgrounds and religions. Before, her work experience was working in small Jewish owned businesses. Afterward, she worked as a draftsman for a major American corporation that had not generally hired Jews before the war. In short, life was never the same. For better or worse, the little ethnic enclaves that dotted our cities were never the same again. After the war, she and her husband got a VA mortgage and moved out to a former potato field along with people of all sorts of backgrounds while her old neighborhood turned black. But that was a long time ago. How did Pearl Harbor influence my kids' life? Not much.

    Maybe Till's death should also be a dead letter but apparently it isn't. Historical memory is always selective - the CCP talks more about the Opium Wars than it does about the Cultural Revolution or the Tiananmen Square Massacre. For better or for worse, the relationship between Black America and White America is more of a live issue than the relationship between America and Japan.

    Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3, @AndrewR, @Buffalo Joe, @Chrisnonymous, @Ron Mexico, @epebble, @Dave Pinsen, @obwandiyag, @obwandiyag, @Moses, @Richard B

    It is less and less relevant to our future

    An easy way to visualize this:

    December 7, 1781 : Not many thought a band of rebels can defeat the military of the mightiest nation on earth.
    December 7, 1861 : Not many thought the nation will self-destruct over a bunch of negroes
    December 7, 1941 : Not many were confidant U.S., fairly weak after a decade of Great Depression, can win over two powerful enemies overseas.
    December 7, 2021 : Not many think the nation can “win” against China…

    December 7, 2101 : Somebody will be writing how wrong the commenters were in 2021.

    Futurology is a dangerous profession!

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @epebble

    -- December 7, 1781 : Not many thought a band of rebels can defeat the military of the mightiest nation on earth.

    Huh? Yorktown was in September 1781.
    After Saratoga in '77 the British realized they had an actual problem.
    Try 1776.


    -- December 7, 1861 : Not many thought the nation will self-destruct over a bunch of negroes

    The crisis had been building for decades and spectacularly during the late 1850s. (And wasn't about "negroes" but about different modes of production and the sort of societies they entail. I.e. the question of whether you're building a republic based on the labor of free white citizens or a plantation economy. It was basically the presence of Western territory that precluded that kept wrecking the "to each his own" compromise and kept things boiling.)

    By Dec 7, 1861 the war had been going on 8 months.


    -- December 7, 1941 : Not many were confidant U.S., fairly weak after a decade of Great Depression, can win over two powerful enemies overseas.

    Almost everyone sane and knowledgeable understood it. The world's largest economy tucked behind two oceans. Churchill's entire war plan was to hold out and find a way to drag the US in. Yamamoto--who'd studied at Harvard and been a military attache in the US--knew it. He was opposed to war with the US. In a set of bad options, he simply thought if there was to be a war, he at least wanted it to start with Japan ahead. But he perfectly predicted the arc--that even if successful his Pearl Harbor attack would only buy Japan a few months.


    -- December 7, 2021 : Not many think the nation can “win” against China…

    First off the United States isn't really a "nation" anymore. It's a bunch of squabbling tribes with a hostile elite, hostile to the core ethny of the American nation.

    Secondly, we can't "win". I'm pretty confident in any conventional showdown--at the current time--the US would convincingly beat China. But China would not like that and both the US and China have nuclear weapons that neither can stop. So in any serious conflict we both lose.

    The real issue is that China is now much, much more of a nation than the US, with a higher IQ population, and no minoritarian insanity ...while the US has been infected with this insane minoritarianism, worships queers and blacks and trannies, reacts to the screechings of girls on twitter and is waving in Haitians and assorted "shithole country" riffraff. So our future--unless we do a hard U--is bleak. (China's main issue is that it hasn't seriously prioritized eugenic fertility--the core modernity struggle--but at least it isn't actively killing itself.)

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @epebble

    , @Houston 1992
    @epebble

    America was a 98% self -sufficient autarchic nation until perhaps 1980. (Ok usa imported but it did not need the imports …)

    When we started / induced wars with Japan and NS Germany there was no fear that we needed Japanese or German imports. Today , we import pharma as well as a manufactured goods from China. A war with China is an impossibility unless it ends within a few weeks with a comprehensive USA victory and the defeated China compliant with our import needs …. Seems far fetched to me

    , @kaganovitch
    @epebble

    Somebody will be writing how wrong the commenters were in 2021.

    What language will they be writing that in?

    Replies: @epebble

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @epebble


    Futurology is a dangerous profession!
     
    Here is the always interesting Dan Antion on the future: https://newcriterion.com/issues/2021/12/unprecedented
  64. Even in the 90s (when I was in public school), talking about the Japanese role in WW2 was too weird to talk about for our teachers, too off narrative to talk about non-white imperialism and atrocities. We learned more about the internment of Japanese Americans than, say, the Rape of Nanking or anything like that. We also had an essay assignment we’re we had to take a pro- or con- position on Hiroshima.

    On the flip side, we learned more about the Holocaust than any other subject save anti-black racism in the US. And nothing about, say, the firebombing of German cities or anything like that.

    Wokeness didn’t come out if nowhere. It has been gestating for decades.

    • Agree: mc23, AnotherDad
    • Replies: @Abolish_public_education
    @Ian Smith

    We learned more about the internment of Japanese Americans

    Cancel Earl Warren.

  65. @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    The US is not some isolated tribe perpetually on the brink of extinction, for which the loss of even a few women could spell demographic disaster. If half of the US combat deaths in Vietnam or even World War II had been women the effects on the nation's long-term demographic growth would have been minimal and completely gone in a generation.

    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are "too delicate" for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that's a different issue). You'll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Finally, some Beta losers think that infantilizing and patronizing women is a surefire way to get magnificent women to drop their panties for them. Newsflash: it doesn't work.

    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj, @Wilkey, @R.G. Camara, @Alfa158, @Kratoklastes, @Hibernian, @David Davenport, @Mike Tre, @nebulafox, @Anonymous

    My experience, not theory, is that male opposition to women in combat is fear that we’ll get killed trying to pick up the slack for them.

    • Replies: @TWS
    @74v56ruthiyj

    I have never once not ever seen a woman complete a physical fitness test to the male standard with the exception of a few who matched the sit ups

    Replies: @kaganovitch

  66. The war in the Pacific was a racist attack on Japan!!!!

  67. Admiral Rachel Levine will commemorate the 80th anniversary of Pearl Harbor by discussing the real horror of that day…transphobia.

  68. @Achmed E. Newman
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Thanks and LOL.

    I know you didn't make the map, but can you tell me why Iran is "West Korea"?

    Replies: @Jon, @Chrisnonymous, @tyrone, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    The nuclear middle finger.

  69. @danand
    "American movies was happy people listening to big band music..."

    Seems to me Big Band music is buried deeper in the dustbin than "those damn Japs":


    Midway Attack Scenes from Three Movies: Midway (1976), Yamamoto Isoroku (2011) and Midway (2019)
    https://youtu.be/Wj4Oy7miCLg

    As they say, "never forget" while cruising down the road in the Toyota.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Captain Tripps, @Paco Wové

    A nice capsule demonstration of how CGI has helped transform movies into overblown video games.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
  70. I am a liberal.

    The vast majority of you are conservative or even further right.

    Let’s forget about that and take a few moments to remember friends and relatives who fought in WW II.

    And take some time to reflect on the civilians whose lives were uprooted by the war, and whose future was secured by our victory.

    As for me: my grandfather fought in the Pacific, USMC officer, last battle was Okinawa.

    Many of my friends growing up had fathers who fought in the war.

    Both of my wife’s parents were refugees and/or “internally displaced persons” at some point during the war. Not all of their siblings made it.

    My sister-in-law’s European relatives all died during the war. Every last one of them.

    Probably all of you have friends and relatives who fought or were refugees or whatever.

    Let us hope that at some point in our future the world will finally be able to live in peace.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Paleo Liberal


    Let us hope that at some point in our future the world will finally be able to live in peace.
     
    Your comment expresses nice sentiments, but your wish will never come true.

    And take some time to reflect on the civilians whose lives were uprooted by the war, and whose future was secured by our victory.
     
    "Our" victory handed half of Europe, including my wife's entire family and all her relatives to the communists, guaranteeing half a century of virtual imprisonment and suffering under the thumb of the Soviet Union and cruel dictatorship under Ceaușescu.

    "Our" country was the deciding factor, because it never should have entered the war, and when it did, it fought for the wrong side. Now we are faced with domination from new leftists, "even further" left than you.

    Don't be fooled. Your heart is in the right place, but don't be fooled.

    As for lost relatives, I have stood in front of the little, white church where one of my wife's was lined up against the wall with fellow villagers and shot -- by Russian soldiers.
    , @Bill Jones
    @Paleo Liberal


    Let us hope that at some point in our future the world will finally be able to live in peace.
     
    For that to happen you murderous Liberals will have to go.
  71. @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    I am completely opposed to a military draft, but if there ever is one again it god-damned better include women.
    As I've said before, if anyone - I don't care who it is - says in my presence that women shouldn't be in combat because their lives are too precious, the obvious corollary of which is that men are expendable, it will take every last bit of my self control not to physically assault that person. And it may not be enough.

    Note to the autistics on this site who disagree: go die in a fire.

    Replies: @NickG, @Reg Cæsar, @education realist, @Joe S.Walker, @animalogic

    Preach.

    Either send women back to the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, or they get drafted, too.

    “Sorry, guys, you’ll go off to fight in a war, meanwhile all the women will get the college placements, the good internships, the good jobs, and when you’re back and you marry and have kids, she can divorce you, keep custody of the kids, and charge you for them.”

    Fuck that.

    After WWII, they sent Rosie the Riveter home and women even now whine about how unfair it was. Well, then, pony up and fight.

  72. @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    The US is not some isolated tribe perpetually on the brink of extinction, for which the loss of even a few women could spell demographic disaster. If half of the US combat deaths in Vietnam or even World War II had been women the effects on the nation's long-term demographic growth would have been minimal and completely gone in a generation.

    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are "too delicate" for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that's a different issue). You'll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Finally, some Beta losers think that infantilizing and patronizing women is a surefire way to get magnificent women to drop their panties for them. Newsflash: it doesn't work.

    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj, @Wilkey, @R.G. Camara, @Alfa158, @Kratoklastes, @Hibernian, @David Davenport, @Mike Tre, @nebulafox, @Anonymous

    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.

    Every single physically demanding job, in this and every other country, is male dominated. Not a few of them, but all of them. You can easily live your entire life without seeing a woman perform some of these jobs. But yeah, somehow that reality has no bearing on whether or not women should serve in combat. If you say so.

    The modern, high tech military has plenty of jobs far away from the battlefield which women can do, and are quite good at. There is no need to send them into combat. The US has not won a major war in 76 years. Maybe it’s time to learn a thing or two from the last generation that actually did.

    • Agree: R.G. Camara, Not Raul
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Wilkey


    The US has not won a major war in 76 years.
     
    Arguably in 176 years. The net long-run effects of every war since, and perhaps including, the Mexican have been negative.
  73. That is odd; I thought it would have made sense for the NYT, which is a major channel for MIC warmongering, to put a story about Pearl Harbor on the same page as the Ukraine story since the purpose of the Ukraine narrative is to promote the next World War.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Alfa158

    The "Band of Brothers" and "Greatest Generation" talk a while back, while good in that it honored the sacrifices of those who came before us, was intended by the elite at least in part to drum up (pun intended) support for Neocon wars. (My dad was too young, avoided the Korean War draft, and then lost his draft exemption and served in the USMC 1954-57.) Today's leftist politicians with few exceptions just think the military is yucky and don't want to honor veterans. That won't stop them from, as Colin Powell said of Madeleine Albright, using the troops as chess pieces on a worldwide board when the occasion arises

  74. @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    The US is not some isolated tribe perpetually on the brink of extinction, for which the loss of even a few women could spell demographic disaster. If half of the US combat deaths in Vietnam or even World War II had been women the effects on the nation's long-term demographic growth would have been minimal and completely gone in a generation.

    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are "too delicate" for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that's a different issue). You'll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Finally, some Beta losers think that infantilizing and patronizing women is a surefire way to get magnificent women to drop their panties for them. Newsflash: it doesn't work.

    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj, @Wilkey, @R.G. Camara, @Alfa158, @Kratoklastes, @Hibernian, @David Davenport, @Mike Tre, @nebulafox, @Anonymous

    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.

    lol. And my theory is your unnatural and anti-civilizational fantasies stem from your being raised without a biological father in the home and/or with a feminazi mother.

    Let’s see whose beliefs are more likely to be right.

  75. @David In TN
    @Buzz Mohawk

    With a lot of us, our parents met when and where they did because of WW II.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Rex Little

    With a lot of us, our parents met when and where they did because of WW II.

    That would be damn close to every person in most countries on the planet under the age of 75. And the further you get from the event, the higher percentage rises of people who would never have been born.

    My response to the people who would “travel back in time to kill Hitler” is that they would be killing billions of people to save the lives of 50 million or so people who would all mostly be dead by now anyway.

  76. @Paleo Liberal
    I am a liberal.

    The vast majority of you are conservative or even further right.

    Let’s forget about that and take a few moments to remember friends and relatives who fought in WW II.

    And take some time to reflect on the civilians whose lives were uprooted by the war, and whose future was secured by our victory.

    As for me: my grandfather fought in the Pacific, USMC officer, last battle was Okinawa.


    Many of my friends growing up had fathers who fought in the war.

    Both of my wife’s parents were refugees and/or “internally displaced persons” at some point during the war. Not all of their siblings made it.

    My sister-in-law’s European relatives all died during the war. Every last one of them.

    Probably all of you have friends and relatives who fought or were refugees or whatever.

    Let us hope that at some point in our future the world will finally be able to live in peace.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Bill Jones

    Let us hope that at some point in our future the world will finally be able to live in peace.

    Your comment expresses nice sentiments, but your wish will never come true.

    And take some time to reflect on the civilians whose lives were uprooted by the war, and whose future was secured by our victory.

    “Our” victory handed half of Europe, including my wife’s entire family and all her relatives to the communists, guaranteeing half a century of virtual imprisonment and suffering under the thumb of the Soviet Union and cruel dictatorship under Ceaușescu.

    “Our” country was the deciding factor, because it never should have entered the war, and when it did, it fought for the wrong side. Now we are faced with domination from new leftists, “even further” left than you.

    Don’t be fooled. Your heart is in the right place, but don’t be fooled.

    As for lost relatives, I have stood in front of the little, white church where one of my wife’s was lined up against the wall with fellow villagers and shot — by Russian soldiers.

    • Thanks: JMcG
  77. Most of the people killed at Pearl Harbor were boring old white guys. And the new US elite have no historic beef with the Japanese. And it’s not like Pearl Harbor is fresh news like the Tulsa race riots or the holocaust.

  78. @Reg Cæsar
    @Achmed E. Newman


    PS: Yeah, I know, Reg, Hawaii wasn’t a State then, either…
     
    Or now, either. Funny how Republican crimes such as stealing islands in both oceans is so thoroughly silenced nowadays-- by Democrats. Cui bono.

    (BTW, if someone is ignorant enough not to know of Hawaii's non-statehood at the time, I'll leave the corrections to the 50 others who'll chime in.)

    The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so? Had we already committed acts of war? Or even just entered into an unspoken alliance with their enemies?

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Kratoklastes, @Diversity Heretic, @Mike Tre, @mike99588, @Jack D

    Edward s. Miller wrote a book entitled Bankrupting the Enemy, which is a detailed exposition of the economic and financial measures that the United States used against Japan in the late 1930s and early 1940s; embargoes of oil and freezing Japanese gold reserves are the most prominent but by no means all. One Japanese leader who was prosecuted for “beginning a war of aggression” countered with a vigorious, albeit unsuccessful, defense that when economic and financial sanctions reach a certain point, a military response is justified under international law.

    And I believe that the Japanese diplomatic note that accompanied the declaration of war said essentially that Japan wasn’t doing anything in east Asia that the United States hadn’t been doing in Latin America for a long time. Japan had never objected to those U.S. actions, so by what right did the United States object to Japanese actions in its sphere of influence?

    As for Roosevelt’s knowledge of Japanese attack plans, the best explanation I’ve ever heard is that Roosevelt was hoping for an incident and got a catastrophe.

    What a shame it had to be a war with a country that Calvin Coolidge referred to as “America’s natural friend.”

    • Thanks: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Diversity Heretic

    [Neil Breen voice] I'm with you
    [normal voice] But Militarist Japs were freaking idiots and doled out incidents unprovoked all the time. There was one where they happened to be across a river from Americans so they just started shooting at them. For ... it is not recorded, actually.
    -------
    Rightwing radio host Darryl Wood just now: Chicago cops are not getting days off!!!!!!1!
    Internet wierdos who religiously read Second City Cop Blog: You're adorable. Tell me again how MyPillow has literally changed your life.

    , @Clifford Brown
    @Diversity Heretic


    As for Roosevelt’s knowledge of Japanese attack plans, the best explanation I’ve ever heard is that Roosevelt was hoping for an incident and got a catastrophe.
     
    Roosevelt and the Pentagon brass has access to critical Japanese communications and knew of the Pearl Harbor attack in advance. Roosevelt was desperate for a war to project American power and have thousands of Americans die in the name of Bolshevism.

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong

  79. The United States of America that experienced “a date which will live in infamy” no longer exists. We have to accept that reality and live our lives accordingly.

    • Agree: Dutch Boy
  80. (…)

    hear the recording
    of the Fire Department dispatcher
    enumerating many units
    bravely sent then
    shouts and silence

    Dad was a firefighter
    he’d been in the Navy
    had brothers in the fleet
    left me alone Mother too
    minutes at a time
    in December long ago

    making shoe sounds gone
    hurried feet
    returning and gone
    talking with
    telephone and radio

    that was a start for me
    of what we mean by we

    (….)

    Much later, standing on the passage over the USS Arizona, with oil seeping up, and human remains below, there is an immediacy in the sense of warplanes appearing suddenly over the lovely mountains and filling the sky. Look there, and there, and see.

  81. • Thanks: J.Ross, mc23
    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
    @Cloudswrest

    "Bomb violence," no doubt.

  82. Why are we surprised that WWII is fading into memory as the Civil War once did? Time consumes all. Time heals all. Time flows. By the way, Time, not Death, is the more accurate translation of the famous quote from the Gita that Oppenheimer thought of during the first atomic bomb explosion in New Mexico. The destroyer of worlds-and the rejuvenation of them.

    (80 years passed between Fort Sumter and Pearl Harbor. No, that doesn’t bode well for the 2020s. I’m superstitious, bite me.)

    • Agree: epebble, Captain Tripps
  83. You’d think they’d want to commemorate how the Red Tails valiantly stepped up and defeated the Nazis after they attacked Pearl Harbor.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @AnotherDad

    You’d think they’d want to commemorate how the Red Tails valiantly stepped up and defeated the Nazis after they attacked Pearl Harbor.

    When I was a wee lad,I tutored one semester at a Community College – I had the following conversation (true story)
    “During the Pacific war , the American strategy of island hopping …” Yo, teach, what was the Pacific War ? “The Pacific War was the conflict between America and Japan during WW2.” Wo,wo, you sayin’ America had a war with Japan? “Yes, indeed they did.” No Shit, Who won?

    Replies: @hhsiii

  84. @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    The US is not some isolated tribe perpetually on the brink of extinction, for which the loss of even a few women could spell demographic disaster. If half of the US combat deaths in Vietnam or even World War II had been women the effects on the nation's long-term demographic growth would have been minimal and completely gone in a generation.

    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are "too delicate" for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that's a different issue). You'll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Finally, some Beta losers think that infantilizing and patronizing women is a surefire way to get magnificent women to drop their panties for them. Newsflash: it doesn't work.

    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj, @Wilkey, @R.G. Camara, @Alfa158, @Kratoklastes, @Hibernian, @David Davenport, @Mike Tre, @nebulafox, @Anonymous

    Autistics like yourself will be shocked to hear the following:
    – no military in the world assigns women to front line combat duty, and for good reason.
    – the current and proposed ACFT are skewed to help women, and yet only 10% of women in the US military met the required fitness levels for combat, even after training for the tests. Even including non-combat roles, only 30% passed.
    -I go to a commercial gym at least three times a week. Those “ultrafit hardbodied” women are less than a few percent of the clientele. I suspect your familiarity with gyms is limited to the commercials on TV where every woman is an “ultrafit hardbody” showing men how to bench 350. Many of the non-fictional UH will probably still flunk a test which requires them to meet the brute strength requirements for combat. An 80 pound crate of mortar shells that has to be humped to the top of a hill isn’t going to pro-rate itself to a lower mass just because a woman is trying to carry it.

    As far as I’m concerned, the few women who can actually meet exactly the same standards as men are perfectly welcome to join combat squads.( Good luck, and better them than me, I was in the Air Force ).But that is not what this is about. Women want to squeeze into any kind of nominally combat position because that helps them get promoted into higher ranks faster.

    • Replies: @Tony massey
    @Alfa158

    For what it's worth women aren't allowed Togo moar than 3 days without hygeine, that is, soap and hot water.
    It is recommended that men go no moar than 17 days without hygeine but that recommendation is not, so far as i am aware, followed.
    Female soldiers never ever ever go moar than 3 days altho I'm sure one will pipe up and say they did but then in that case your commander broke a hard rule that, so far as i know, is never broken.
    Doesn't matter how dirty the men get.
    But hygeine...yeh it's a real thing for a female soldier in the field without access to ya know basic hygeine.

    Women and seamen shouldn't mix. Makes the fags jealous and then you get vincennes.
    N seriously a fag didn't blow up the vincennes. J/k.
    No but for real the navy are a buncha fags. Look at that admiral. Whew

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @Alfa158


    Women want to squeeze into any kind of nominally combat position because that helps them get promoted into higher ranks faster.
     
    Right. You can't get above o-6 without a major, preferably combat, command, though BHO appointed one black babe a 4 star admiral whose command was logistics ships.
  85. @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    The US is not some isolated tribe perpetually on the brink of extinction, for which the loss of even a few women could spell demographic disaster. If half of the US combat deaths in Vietnam or even World War II had been women the effects on the nation's long-term demographic growth would have been minimal and completely gone in a generation.

    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are "too delicate" for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that's a different issue). You'll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Finally, some Beta losers think that infantilizing and patronizing women is a surefire way to get magnificent women to drop their panties for them. Newsflash: it doesn't work.

    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj, @Wilkey, @R.G. Camara, @Alfa158, @Kratoklastes, @Hibernian, @David Davenport, @Mike Tre, @nebulafox, @Anonymous

    I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that’s a different issue). You’ll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Yeah… then find a guy with the exact same dimensions (height; weight; waist circumference) and put them against one another in a standard task requiring strength, stamina, or both… and watch the woman wilt in half the time that it takes to exhaust the guy.

    The average ‘hardbodied’ woman in my local gym was maybe 5’5″, 125lb – similar stats to Anastasia Yankova (who – let’s be frank – is not that good a fighter).

    Well-toned women are nice to look at, but that’s not gonna enable them to hump their own pack & weapon and enough ammo, food and water to last more than a day.

    By all means – you go be the gentleman, and be a porter for people who shouldn’t be there. They’ll send a helo to retrieve the bodies.

    • Agree: Hibernian
  86. If those men could talk, surely they would say, “I hope a guy I wouldn’t allow to move into my neighborhood becomes president or runs over cheerleaders after effectively telling authorities what he would do. Or drive stores out of town by brazenly robbing them because they cannot be arrested and know it. That would make my sacrifice worthwhile.”

  87. @Diversity Heretic
    @Reg Cæsar

    Edward s. Miller wrote a book entitled Bankrupting the Enemy, which is a detailed exposition of the economic and financial measures that the United States used against Japan in the late 1930s and early 1940s; embargoes of oil and freezing Japanese gold reserves are the most prominent but by no means all. One Japanese leader who was prosecuted for "beginning a war of aggression" countered with a vigorious, albeit unsuccessful, defense that when economic and financial sanctions reach a certain point, a military response is justified under international law.

    And I believe that the Japanese diplomatic note that accompanied the declaration of war said essentially that Japan wasn't doing anything in east Asia that the United States hadn't been doing in Latin America for a long time. Japan had never objected to those U.S. actions, so by what right did the United States object to Japanese actions in its sphere of influence?

    As for Roosevelt's knowledge of Japanese attack plans, the best explanation I've ever heard is that Roosevelt was hoping for an incident and got a catastrophe.

    What a shame it had to be a war with a country that Calvin Coolidge referred to as "America's natural friend."

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Clifford Brown

    [Neil Breen voice] I’m with you
    [normal voice] But Militarist Japs were freaking idiots and doled out incidents unprovoked all the time. There was one where they happened to be across a river from Americans so they just started shooting at them. For … it is not recorded, actually.
    ——-
    Rightwing radio host Darryl Wood just now: Chicago cops are not getting days off!!!!!!1!
    Internet wierdos who religiously read Second City Cop Blog: You’re adorable. Tell me again how MyPillow has literally changed your life.

  88. At Dawn We Were Still Choosing our Pronouns

  89. In Tora Tora Tora, I think it was Glenn Miller’s In The Mood that the Japanese heard over their direction finding radios.

  90. @Ian Smith
    Even in the 90s (when I was in public school), talking about the Japanese role in WW2 was too weird to talk about for our teachers, too off narrative to talk about non-white imperialism and atrocities. We learned more about the internment of Japanese Americans than, say, the Rape of Nanking or anything like that. We also had an essay assignment we’re we had to take a pro- or con- position on Hiroshima.

    On the flip side, we learned more about the Holocaust than any other subject save anti-black racism in the US. And nothing about, say, the firebombing of German cities or anything like that.

    Wokeness didn’t come out if nowhere. It has been gestating for decades.

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

    We learned more about the internment of Japanese Americans

    Cancel Earl Warren.

  91. @Reg Cæsar
    @prosa123


    Note to the autistics on this site who disagree: go die in a fire.
     
    99% of Americans in 1941-- and 1971-- were "autistic"? I'm a reactionary, not a conservative. I refuse to cuck on this.

    that women shouldn’t be in combat because their lives are too precious
     
    Their ovaries and uteri are what are precious. In wartime, at least. This has been known as long as men have been on earth. Are you some kind of "American exceptionalist" who believes the rules don't apply to us?

    Replies: @danand, @prosa123, @Anonymous

    Are you some kind of “American exceptionalist” who believes the rules don’t apply to us?

    Who is “us“? I thought you didn’t identify with the other white people or other Americans.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    Who is “us“? I thought you didn’t identify with the other white people or other Americans.

     

    It's easier to identify with the Swiss, the Austrians, the Danes, and the Finns, who draft only men, than with the Swedes and the Norwegians, who draft women, and the only countries to do so equally.

    The active draft survived a referendum in 2013: Austrians vote to keep compulsory military service

    This was, as in Switzerland, Sweden, and Finland, to ensure neutrality. In the US, it's the opposite. The active draft destroys our neutrality.

    To get back on-topic, Pearl Harbor didn't lead to the draft. The draft led to Pearl Harbor.
  92. @GeologyAnonMk3
    @Jack D

    I disagree with your opinion, as usual.

    I was stationed in Pearl for 3 years, and every time we would pull out or come back in, you go past Battleship Row and the Arizona. Maybe for older civilian guys like you it has a different meaning, or no meaning at all, but the message I got, on a ship going out over the horizon, was that the stakes in this game are high, and it can turn on you in the blink of an eye.

    The lesson of Pearl Harbor isn't that the Japs are evil or the good guys won, or anything else. It's that the world is a dangerous place, and the cost of any lapse in vigilance or readiness is likely to measured in KIA telegrams. People think we have reached the end of history or something, and that nothing bad can happen anymore. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    So maybe it means little to you, whose military experience is limited to some relative by marriage's spouse who had some tales about life as a military dependent. But for people closer to the pointy end of things, it still has plenty of meaning. For most Navy officers, it's a family business, father-to-son-to-grandson-to-great-grandson. Just because you have forgotten or allowed it to grow irrelevant, doesn't mean we have.

    Replies: @SteveRogers42, @Captain Tripps, @epebble

    Hello, 911? I need to report a murder.

  93. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    The point is to not remind why it was then with China against Japan, and now it's the other way around.

    CCP's narrative is that the Japanese are not sorry for nuffin for starting the war, they are only sorry for losing.


    Can’t believe these two events are happening at the same time. What it tells? pic.twitter.com/de5VCTiluI— Chen Weihua (陈卫华) (@chenweihua) December 7, 2021
     
    This is true to an extent--
    https://imgur.com/2mZYi1m

    Whereas from Japan's perspective, they've always had less to fear from faraway United States, than an Asian continental superpower, PRC, USSR, Mongol Empire.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Chrisnonymous, @SteveRogers42, @John Derbyshire, @The Wild Geese Howard, @anono

    Reminds me of the early-1970’s issue of National Lampoon with the evolutionary chart of the Ascent of Man.

  94. @Bragadocious
    Personally, I was shocked that the WW1 centenary wasn't a thing at all domestically, it was basically limited to Trump visiting France--where his enemies quickly piled on him for one thing or another. This from the Brits:

    https://twitter.com/NSoames/status/1061270124404113408

    That's funny coming from the country that expanded WW1 into a global conflict. So yeah, these war remembrances are toxic and political. Maybe we can change that, and all unite in 2022 to remember the 55th anniversary of the USS Liberty attack.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Mr. Anon, @Anonymous

    I’m right there with you, Buddy.

  95. @raga10
    @danand


    If people don’t have more children, civilization is going to crumble. Mark my words.
     
    Civilisation doesn't need any more people and if it is going to crumble it certainly won't be for lack of people! Proof lies in the fact that population was basically stable at around one billion people until the end of the 19th century and I think not many sane people would argue that civilisation is an invention more recent than that.

    It's CAPITALISM and not civilisation that needs always growing population. Musk is a capitalist so perhaps to him civilisation and capitalism are one and the same, but again - history says he is wrong about that.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    Civilisation doesn’t need any more people and if it is going to crumble it certainly won’t be for lack of people!

    Raga10, you missed Musk’s point.

    I’ll highlight the key words:

    Musk added that too many “good, smart people” think there are too many people in the world and that the population is growing out of control.

    “It’s completely the opposite,” Musk said, urging people to look at the data. “If people don’t have more children, civilization is going to crumble.

    Musk knows perfectly that Africa’s population is exploding. His comment is directly to “good smart people”–the sort of people who create and maintain “civilization”. You can’t ask him to make it any clearer and get himself or Tesla cancelled.

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @raga10
    @AnotherDad


    Raga10, you missed Musk’s point.
     
    I don't think I have; He didn't mean to imply the problem is that the smart ones aren't breeding, he really thinks there just aren't enough people in the world.
    I believe my interpretation is correct because this is not his first post on the matter. For example back in 2017 he tweeted: “The world’s population is accelerating towards collapse, but few seem to notice or care”. That does sound like something that I would say meaning overpopulation, but he meant it in the opposite sense: He was commenting on an article from New Scientist magazine titled, “The world in 2076: The population bomb has imploded.”

    source: https://www.technocracy.news/elon-musk-global-population-collapsing-nobody-seems-care/

  96. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    The point is to not remind why it was then with China against Japan, and now it's the other way around.

    CCP's narrative is that the Japanese are not sorry for nuffin for starting the war, they are only sorry for losing.


    Can’t believe these two events are happening at the same time. What it tells? pic.twitter.com/de5VCTiluI— Chen Weihua (陈卫华) (@chenweihua) December 7, 2021
     
    This is true to an extent--
    https://imgur.com/2mZYi1m

    Whereas from Japan's perspective, they've always had less to fear from faraway United States, than an Asian continental superpower, PRC, USSR, Mongol Empire.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Chrisnonymous, @SteveRogers42, @John Derbyshire, @The Wild Geese Howard, @anono

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @John Derbyshire

    Fair enough Mr. Derbyshire. But you shouldn't conflate rejection of cultural self-flagellation with moral apathy:

    -There are no serious CCP historians today who don't repudiate, to varying extents, Mao's misdeeds. GLF and CR are termed as 十年浩劫 Ten Year Great Disaster. (For reference: youtube talks of Nanjing University's Gao Hua 高華)

    -Both the CCP and Japanese ruling class tells a self-serving narrative of history which stokes Sino-Japanese enmity. But jokes aside, it's simply untrue that the Japanese, across political spectrum, have not expressed remorse.

    Replies: @nebulafox

  97. @Wilkey
    @prosa123


    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.
     
    Every single physically demanding job, in this and every other country, is male dominated. Not a few of them, but all of them. You can easily live your entire life without seeing a woman perform some of these jobs. But yeah, somehow that reality has no bearing on whether or not women should serve in combat. If you say so.

    The modern, high tech military has plenty of jobs far away from the battlefield which women can do, and are quite good at. There is no need to send them into combat. The US has not won a major war in 76 years. Maybe it’s time to learn a thing or two from the last generation that actually did.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The US has not won a major war in 76 years.

    Arguably in 176 years. The net long-run effects of every war since, and perhaps including, the Mexican have been negative.

  98. @GeologyAnonMk3
    @Jack D

    I disagree with your opinion, as usual.

    I was stationed in Pearl for 3 years, and every time we would pull out or come back in, you go past Battleship Row and the Arizona. Maybe for older civilian guys like you it has a different meaning, or no meaning at all, but the message I got, on a ship going out over the horizon, was that the stakes in this game are high, and it can turn on you in the blink of an eye.

    The lesson of Pearl Harbor isn't that the Japs are evil or the good guys won, or anything else. It's that the world is a dangerous place, and the cost of any lapse in vigilance or readiness is likely to measured in KIA telegrams. People think we have reached the end of history or something, and that nothing bad can happen anymore. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    So maybe it means little to you, whose military experience is limited to some relative by marriage's spouse who had some tales about life as a military dependent. But for people closer to the pointy end of things, it still has plenty of meaning. For most Navy officers, it's a family business, father-to-son-to-grandson-to-great-grandson. Just because you have forgotten or allowed it to grow irrelevant, doesn't mean we have.

    Replies: @SteveRogers42, @Captain Tripps, @epebble

    Thanks (I ran out of my reaction allotments).

  99. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Reg Cæsar

    When, during the Carter administration, Selective Service registration was brought back, I resented it as a young man with vivid memory of what a farce the recent Vietnam War really had been. I have felt ever since that young women should indeed be required to register if young men are.

    This is because I am against the whole thing. I hold this opinion because the wars my country has engaged in have increasingly been based on the lies and follies of an elite not at risk, in service of a global empire that does not belong to me or to the vast majority of my fellow Americans.

    There is plenty of work that can be done by women in order to support war efforts. My mother sewed parachutes during WWII (itself a war -- based on lies and manipulations -- that the United States should never have entered -- and certainly not on the wrong side of.)

    My aunt joined the WAVES and worked stateside in a Navy office. Why not draft women into all that kind of work here at home, as military conscripts, and enforce military discipline? They are not suitable for combat or any other historically male, military role.

    By all means, force them to register to serve in a military fashion. Have their names, addresses and social security numbers ready if you are going to do that to men. Maybe then more American women would be against wars built on lies.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Reg Cæsar, @JMcG

    Agreed. It’s the hundredth anniversary of the signing of the treaty that ended the Anglo-Irish War. The Irish Civil War started immediately. If any one of those men knew they were fighting and dying and killing their brothers for a republic that would embrace homosexuality and Islam and prioritize african immigrants over their own countrymen when it comes to jobs and school and housing, they’d have turned their rifles on themselves.

  100. @Kratoklastes
    @Reg Cæsar


    The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so?

     

    It's not even a question. December 7 1941 was the first Foreign Policy Blowback Day, and - as with the later FPBD in 2001, occurred with the foreknowledge of, and to the absolute delight of, the leadership.

    Had we already committed acts of war?
     
    Countries cannot claim to be neutral, and then only trade with one side (that's not explicitly a casus belli though). The US broke a trade agreement with Japan, implemented what amounts to a blockade[1], and provided financial aid to the nation with which Japan was at war. Taken together, those constitute a valid casus belli, by the US' own acknowledgement, 13 years earlier.

    During the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations hearing over the ratification of the Kellogg-Briand Pact[2], Senator Claude A. Swanson (Virginia) posed the following question to Secretary Kellogg:

    Swanson : “Suppose a country is not attacked. Suppose there is an economic blockade, and they carry out their obligations under the League of Nations for an economic blockade; would this treaty interfere with it?”

    Kellogg: There is no such thing as a blockade without you are in war... An act of war, absolutely.”
     
    (Interestingly: that question was asked, and the answer given, on December 7, 1928. Look it up)

    The US whining after each FPBD makes it clear that they have adopted the Jewish Strategy: provoke a response, and then calumniate those you were setting up for an attack.

    The schlubs - being 99% imbeciles - fall for that "We wuz wronged" shit every single time.

    Notes.

    [1] at the show-trial after the war, the Japanese claimed that the US blockade was an act of war. They pointed out that the embargoes applied by the US were designed to cut off supplies that were vital to the civilian life of the nation (remind anyone of sanctions against Iraq 50 years later? Anyone? Bueller?). Among the goods whose import was effectively prohibited:

    Cement, aluminum, lead, copper, coal, rice, beans, phosphate rock, fats, oil and oil bearing materials, hides and skin, tanning materials, leather and leather manufactures, potassium salts, wheat and wheat flour, zinc, sugar, lumber, textile machinery, sulphur and sulphuric acid, wool and wool manufactures, marine products, soda, ash and caustic soda, chemical nitrogen, rayon yarn and staple fibre, bicycles, electrical equipment, silk fabrics, cotton textiles, rubber and rubber manufactures, rayon fabrics, and raw cotton
     
    [2] Hearings Before the Committee on Foreign Relations, United States Senate, Seventieth Congress on The General Pact for the Renunciation of War signed at Paris August 27, 1928

    Replies: @Jack D

    There was no blockade. Any other country willing to do so could supply Japan. There was an embargo, meaning that we wouldn’t do so any more. There is nothing illegal about an embargo.

    The embargo came only after Japan had taken a series of agressive steps including allying with Nazi Germany, securing neutrality from Stalin and occupying Indochina, which put it at the doorstep of the Phillipines. Japan had not yet declared war against the US but they were clearly preparing the battlefield and we would have been idiots to sell them the rope that they needed to hang us with (in Lenin’s words).

    At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis claimed that they were just following orders. At Jussie Smollett’s trial, he claimed that he was attacked and had nothing to do with setting it up. You can claim all you want but a lie is still a lie.

    • Replies: @dimples
    @Jack D

    However the 'embargo' ie sanctions, put in place by the US was cunningly ignored by the US until the Japanese had enough oil stored to run their navy for a year. FDR didn't want to miss out on Pearl Harbor and the subsequent War On Hitler!

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    There is nothing illegal about an embargo.
     
    No, but when you are supplying matériel to the other side, it erodes your claim of being a non-belligerent, and destroys any claim of neutrality. The question is not whether what we did was "illegal", but what Japan did. Did our actions authorize an attack?

    Replies: @Marquis, @Colin Wright

    , @Clifford Brown
    @Jack D


    There is nothing illegal about an embargo.
     
    Now do BDS.

    The Japanese were no threat to the United States if we traded with them peacefully. There was plenty of land for them to exploit in Manchuria and preferably Siberia.
    , @John Regan
    @Jack D


    There was no blockade. Any other country willing to do so could supply Japan. There was an embargo, meaning that we wouldn’t do so any more. There is nothing illegal about an embargo.
     
    It's true that waging sneaky economic war was not illegal in 1941. But neither was waging an honest war by military means. Only Tojo got hanged for that anyway because our rulers don't care about morality or law except to use them as another club to beat down anyone who resists them.

    FDR colluded with the British (and the Dutch puppet government in their hands) to cut off all oil supplies for Japan. There literally was no one else who could supply them. He'd made sure of it. Don't take my word for it but do read the book "Bankrupting the Enemy" which has already been mentioned in this thread.

    This while he was at the same time supplying weapons and personnel (the "Flying Tigers") to Japan's enemy China. Hmmm.

    Here is a nice little article published only days ago with a good list of suggestions for further reading for anyone who's interested. The author's New Left perspective has some blind spots here and there but he is pretty much on the right track:

    https://www.greanvillepost.com/2021/12/06/pearl-harbor-a-surprise-attack/

    In short: The choice the bad guys gave to the Japanese in 1941 was: Become a colony or die. Even though they lost and became a colony anyway I'm glad for their sake that they at least chose to fight for their future before submitting.


    The embargo came only after Japan had taken a series of agressive steps including allying with Nazi Germany, securing neutrality from Stalin and occupying Indochina, which put it at the doorstep of the Phillipines. Japan had not yet declared war against the US but they were clearly preparing the battlefield and we would have been idiots to sell them the rope that they needed to hang us with (in Lenin’s words).
     
    In the later half of 1941 FDR was placing heavy bombers in the Philippines and gloating with his fellow war criminals Stimson and Morgenthau about how they'd be able to firebomb Tokyo to cinders once they were in place. If we are using some preemptive war argument Japan had far more justice on its side on this angle too.

    Japan of course, was in no possible way threatening the continental United States.

    See especially the book on the list, "Preventive Strike" by Alan Armstrong. The author is an anti Japanese triumphalist who thinks a sneak attack on Japan would have been a good thing and laments that Japan got the drop on the bombers in the Philippines first. But his facts are real enough.


    At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis claimed that they were just following orders. At Jussie Smollett’s trial, he claimed that he was attacked and had nothing to do with setting it up. You can claim all you want but a lie is still a lie.
     
    A lie is a lie. But the liars in 1941 were FDR and his minions. And the liars today are the people who defend them.

    Replies: @David Davenport

    , @Sparkon
    @Jack D


    At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis claimed that they were just following orders...You can claim all you want but a lie is still a lie.
     
    At Nuremberg, confessions were extracted from Germans by crushing their testicles.


    Confessions at Nuremberg were obtained under torture. The grimmest of these tortures, practiced mostly by Jewish operatives on their German prisoners of war, was testicle crushing.
     
    https://www.freelists.org/archives/patriots/10-2015/pdfmUpbgZxwKJ.pdf

    Please think twice before citing Nuremberg as if it were some kind of epitome or paragon of justice. In truth, the perversions of justice at the Nuremberg War Crimes trials have empowered the biggest lying sacks of shit on the planet.

    Replies: @Jack D, @JimDandy

  101. Memory relies on an emotional need to relive emotions again and again. And that’s different for every generation. There are a lot of old people nowadays who try to relive the CRM (civil rights movement) era again and again. A real CRM nostalgia, and even some youngsters who want to replicate the noble and heroic deeds of their ancestors. That’s why Emmett Till is inevitable in our present days. Let it be …

    • Replies: @D. K.
    @Stogumber

    Which "civil right" was Till engaged in when he sexually accosted a married woman, in her own store?

    Replies: @Boomthorkell

    , @anon
    @Stogumber

    That's why if they had any integrity, they would do authentic reenactments, like the Civil War buffs. None of those guys, which include lots of "lost cause" believers ever decide to do actually refight the damn thing.

    But the real Civil War, was especially not fun.

    Whereas the real Civil Rights movement was mostly virtue signaling and inner city rioting. So hell yes, let's have a do over. Even though some black areas got burned during the Floyd rampage, they seem ok with it for the most part.

    , @Yngvar
    @Stogumber

    https://i0.wp.com/powerline.wpengine.com/ed-assets/2014/05/Cold-War-Reenactors-copy.jpg

  102. @Buffalo Joe
    In today's news vernacular....'Pearl Harbor, some guys did some thing, but it was too long ago.' Had the Japs bombed black wall street, it would still be page one.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Voltarde, @reactionry

    Japan managed to bomb Omaha, Nebraska in WWII, so they were getting close!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Omaha,_Nebraska#World_War_II

    • Thanks: Buffalo Joe
  103. @epebble
    @Jack D

    It is less and less relevant to our future

    An easy way to visualize this:

    December 7, 1781 : Not many thought a band of rebels can defeat the military of the mightiest nation on earth.
    December 7, 1861 : Not many thought the nation will self-destruct over a bunch of negroes
    December 7, 1941 : Not many were confidant U.S., fairly weak after a decade of Great Depression, can win over two powerful enemies overseas.
    December 7, 2021 : Not many think the nation can "win" against China...

    December 7, 2101 : Somebody will be writing how wrong the commenters were in 2021.

    Futurology is a dangerous profession!

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Houston 1992, @kaganovitch, @Jim Don Bob

    — December 7, 1781 : Not many thought a band of rebels can defeat the military of the mightiest nation on earth.

    Huh? Yorktown was in September 1781.
    After Saratoga in ’77 the British realized they had an actual problem.
    Try 1776.

    — December 7, 1861 : Not many thought the nation will self-destruct over a bunch of negroes

    The crisis had been building for decades and spectacularly during the late 1850s. (And wasn’t about “negroes” but about different modes of production and the sort of societies they entail. I.e. the question of whether you’re building a republic based on the labor of free white citizens or a plantation economy. It was basically the presence of Western territory that precluded that kept wrecking the “to each his own” compromise and kept things boiling.)

    By Dec 7, 1861 the war had been going on 8 months.

    — December 7, 1941 : Not many were confidant U.S., fairly weak after a decade of Great Depression, can win over two powerful enemies overseas.

    Almost everyone sane and knowledgeable understood it. The world’s largest economy tucked behind two oceans. Churchill’s entire war plan was to hold out and find a way to drag the US in. Yamamoto–who’d studied at Harvard and been a military attache in the US–knew it. He was opposed to war with the US. In a set of bad options, he simply thought if there was to be a war, he at least wanted it to start with Japan ahead. But he perfectly predicted the arc–that even if successful his Pearl Harbor attack would only buy Japan a few months.

    — December 7, 2021 : Not many think the nation can “win” against China…

    First off the United States isn’t really a “nation” anymore. It’s a bunch of squabbling tribes with a hostile elite, hostile to the core ethny of the American nation.

    Secondly, we can’t “win”. I’m pretty confident in any conventional showdown–at the current time–the US would convincingly beat China. But China would not like that and both the US and China have nuclear weapons that neither can stop. So in any serious conflict we both lose.

    The real issue is that China is now much, much more of a nation than the US, with a higher IQ population, and no minoritarian insanity …while the US has been infected with this insane minoritarianism, worships queers and blacks and trannies, reacts to the screechings of girls on twitter and is waving in Haitians and assorted “shithole country” riffraff. So our future–unless we do a hard U–is bleak. (China’s main issue is that it hasn’t seriously prioritized eugenic fertility–the core modernity struggle–but at least it isn’t actively killing itself.)

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @AnotherDad


    Almost everyone sane and knowledgeable understood it. The world’s largest economy tucked behind two oceans.
     
    A single pair of statistics emphasizes the difference in industrial prowess.

    Between 1925 and 1935, the Japanese automotive industry produced about 221,000 cars in total, of which 208,000 were produced by GM, Ford and Chrysler in plants in Japan.

    By contrast, US automobile production onshore was over 3 million a year, in many years in that period, with production in even the worst year of the Depression, 1932, exceeding 1.1 million cars.



    https://alfred.stlouisfed.org/series?seid=M0107AUSM543NNBR&utm_source=series_page&utm_medium=related_content&utm_term=related_resources&utm_campaign=alfred

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Japan#Early_years

     

    Replies: @Houston 1992, @Anonymous, @epebble

    , @epebble
    @AnotherDad

    Thank you for your reply. Obviously, I have taken liberties with dates to create an appearance of 80 year epochs.

    For 1941, I think, a fair number of people were not sure that, in spite of a large economy, we had the wherewithal to mount a defense strong enough to save Europe from Hitler (and Mussolini) before he completely conquered them.

    For 2021, I used "win", not in military sense, but to win the mindshare against the spreading wisdom that America is a has-been and that 21st Century belongs to China.

  104. @Jack D
    @Kratoklastes

    There was no blockade. Any other country willing to do so could supply Japan. There was an embargo, meaning that we wouldn't do so any more. There is nothing illegal about an embargo.

    The embargo came only after Japan had taken a series of agressive steps including allying with Nazi Germany, securing neutrality from Stalin and occupying Indochina, which put it at the doorstep of the Phillipines. Japan had not yet declared war against the US but they were clearly preparing the battlefield and we would have been idiots to sell them the rope that they needed to hang us with (in Lenin's words).

    At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis claimed that they were just following orders. At Jussie Smollett's trial, he claimed that he was attacked and had nothing to do with setting it up. You can claim all you want but a lie is still a lie.

    Replies: @dimples, @Reg Cæsar, @Clifford Brown, @John Regan, @Sparkon

    However the ’embargo’ ie sanctions, put in place by the US was cunningly ignored by the US until the Japanese had enough oil stored to run their navy for a year. FDR didn’t want to miss out on Pearl Harbor and the subsequent War On Hitler!

  105. The big story that is not told is how the U.S Dollar is on the verge of collapse, how the National Debt is 130% the size of the entire GDP, and how the U.S Federal Government has printed nearly \$20 trillion in bills, assets, bonds and liabilities to foreign investors over the past 20 months(a trillion per month, roughly) since COVID hit.

    America’s economic situation was *castastrophic* before COVID even hit. Because of the pandemic, over the past 1.5 year the government literally bought everyone’s debt while sending them checks, printed \$10 trillion exta in QE(quantitative easing,ie inflation), while, at the same time, real GDP shrank by 20% and revenue by 25%. To make matters worse, America got in a pissing match with China over Taiwan, which led the surgent superpower to inflict heavy penalties on U.S held businesses and Chinese nationals withdrew investments from U.S assets.

    What is happenning now is the culmination of more than 40 years of economic mismanegement and *both* right-wingers and left-wingers are to blame. It was Ronnie Reagan, worshipped by right-wing conservatives as a god, who turned the U.S.A from the World’s biggest creditor nation to the World’s biggest debtor nation, with his multi-trillion military budgets to bankrupt the U.S.S.R. To make matters worse, and to further weaken the U.S.S.R, Ronnie bought the support of Third World nations by essentially lowering American trade tariffs to zero to allow those countries to have huge trade superavits with America. So U.S companies went there where labor is cheaper, leading to the destruction of American Industry. The “rust belt” is as much to blame on Ronnie as on anyone else. He *dramatically* accelerated the de-instrialization of America that had started in the late 60’s, early 70’s. Then, his successor, Bush Senior, decided to start foreign wars that cost hundreds of billions of Dollars to protect the profits of oil companies that are not even headquartered in America, don’t pay taxes to America, and still price gauge their oil to American consumers. Then, the left-winger, Bill The Cad followed, with his endless social programs fueled by taxes from the non-existent .com emerging internet economy of the 90’s. By 1996, it was obvious that it was a bubble and phony, but Bill The Cad cared far more about reelection than the country, so he made Greenspan buy the failed assets from the failed internet companies. To his credit, Geroge Junior was going to do the right thing and let the bubble burst, but then 9/11 happened and he thought that a social revolution might happen if he let the economy crash after that national trauma. So the FED once again printed more money and re-inflated the bubble. Also, Bush Junior wanted to give it to Daddy by finishing the job that Daddy couldn’t(killing Saddam), so he needed another hundred or two billion bucks for his desert advanture. At the same time, the Federally-subsidized home ownership program started in the early90’s by Clinton culminates in the catastrophic 2008 crash. So the left-winger Obama takes office, and decides that the progrma that led to the worst economic crash since 1929 was a good idea, and that everyone in America, even people without jobs, should own a house, so he amplifies the already huge home ownership program of the Federal Government, and tells banks that they can make house loans to anyone, no matter what. So now the government assurance of the loans continues, except as long-term collaterals. By 2016, the bubble was by far the biggest in U.S history, no wonder since it was a bubble that started in the internet.com bubble of the 90’s, and then combined with the housing bubble, and then with the U.S treasuries and then the fiscal stimulus bubble of the 2010’s. So COVID hit, and 20 years of 3 bubbles combined with the biggest stimulus package in the U.S history, at some \$20 trillion total.

    To summarize: huge trade deficits for 40 years, combined with a 40 years gigantic government spending spree, combined with not one, not two, but 3 financial bubbles over 25 years all inflated by the monetary policies of the FED that were not allowed to burst but instead combined with each other, followed by \$20 trillion spending in less than 2 years due to the pandemic. And all that process happening while the country de-industrialized and became more and more dependent on imports.

    It is important to point out that *both* conservative right-wingers and liberal leftists are to blame fcor this. Both parties have bankrupted the government, and both parties have re-inflated bubbles that should have crahsed for no other reason than to assure their re-elections. The only difference is where the parties spend money. Right-wing conservatives spend in in the military-industrial complex(Eisenhower’s warning notwithstanding), while liberals spend it on social programs and government handouts. But they *both* put America in this dire mess.

    I don’t think Americans fully understand just how dire America’s economic situation is. The U.S is broke as a competitive economy, and it is *beyond* broke at the governmental level. Not only doesd the U.S National Debt appraches \$30 trillion, while the economy is only \$22 trillion in size, it is actually worse than that. The actual size of the economy is actually closer to \$15 trillion, because of hos massively infflated the financial sector is. The U.S has been able to run trade deficits of \$800 billion a year for 40 years in a row because the World was willing to pay for it, since th U.S holds the World’s Reserve Currency. Not anymore.

    What is about to happen is that there will be a run on the U.S Dollar. Not similar to what happened in 1971 when America was struggling to finance it’s efforts in Vietnam and no longer had enough gold to back up it’s reserves, a problem that was “solved” by Nixon exiting the gold standard. No, this is a run on the Dollar where the Dollar will be as good as toilet paper. Actually, toilet paper is better since it actually serves a function!

    Some economists are proposing a new term for what is about to come: “tankflation”(tanking + inflation), which means basically a depression where, at the same time, money loses it’s values. Not really a stagflation, but something even worse. No, not as bad as the Weimar Republic. WORSE. Because during the Weimar Republic, as much as currency became worhtless, the German industry and economy were actually slowly recovering from WW1.

    Americans don’t really understand just how bad it is what is coming. It is basically the end of the U.S as a World economic power, and the end of the Dollar as the World’s fiat currency.

    First, the purchasing power of your money will decrease to a quarter of what it is today. But, at the same time, everything that you purchase will cost more, as America makes nothing in 2021 and imports everything, and you’ll have to actually purchase their currency in order to purchase their products, instead of just printing Dollars like we used to. Secondly, not backed by foreign money, the U.S Government will have to default on all internal payments. First, all the Federal bureaucracy will not receive their salaries, including salaries you definitely want to pay, like those of the military. Then, state governments as their revenues plummet from collapsed sales taxes(no one wll be able to afford anything, so no sales tax to local governemnts), the police, fire fighters, etc, will go without salary. As no one accepts Dollars, and the costs of doing business in Dollars becomes even greater, the few remaining American industry will leave the country despite American labor now being so cheap, further tanking the economy. In the end, the only thing the U.S will have left to negotiate some power and position in the World will be it’s nukes. That is, a very similar situation to Russia’s in 1991. Something along the lines of telling the World:”Gives us something, or we might nuke a couple of your cites, retaliations be damned, because otherwise we will starve, so we got nothint to lose. You do.”

    No, this will not be like the 1929 crash and the depression of the 20’s. It will be something *significantly* worse. Oh, U.S.A, how the mighty have fallen!

    When you add this to the current polarization of the U.S, with the Right being full or racists and the Left full of “woke” delusionalk morons, the country might actuallty not survive this. It would take a tyrant-titan with absolute control of the military to declare martial law Roman-style to save the country from utter chaos and collapse, and I cannot imagine Ameircans accepting a tyrant-titan figure . So this is it.

    • Thanks: The Wild Geese Howard
    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
    @Zero Philosopher


    Insert MORE Tag
     
    , @Rob
    @Zero Philosopher

    It is very refreshing to read someone who realizes that Reagan murdered America. But on the other hand, “we really showed those Ruskies!”

    I hope the crash is not as awful as it probably will be. I really fear the worth-something elite, the scientists and engineers are not so globalist that they jump ship.

    Surely our allies will ve willing to help! Would Japan send advisors to help us build American industry — a few generations of new manufacturing tech happened in Asia but not here, so there will be no “rebuilding” industry. The old tool and dye men will be dead or senile. The production engineers might all be in Asia.

    After the Soviet Union ended, Russia was still Russian. America has a huge number of foreigners. Lots will go home, taking the expertise and experience American businesses invested in them instead of Americans. Will even the Mexican and Central American helot class stay? I weep for all the people who will lose their made.

    Maybe one bright spot will be that the financial sector will have lost its luster? Perhaps it will reconstitute into what it was supposed to do, allocating capital for the most productive uses.

    Truly, it could put Israel in a bad spot. A fact that concerns me greatly.

    , @74v56ruthiyj
    @Zero Philosopher

    What's wrong with racists? Given the options, I could accept a pro-White racist tyrant.

  106. @GeologyAnonMk3
    @Jack D

    I disagree with your opinion, as usual.

    I was stationed in Pearl for 3 years, and every time we would pull out or come back in, you go past Battleship Row and the Arizona. Maybe for older civilian guys like you it has a different meaning, or no meaning at all, but the message I got, on a ship going out over the horizon, was that the stakes in this game are high, and it can turn on you in the blink of an eye.

    The lesson of Pearl Harbor isn't that the Japs are evil or the good guys won, or anything else. It's that the world is a dangerous place, and the cost of any lapse in vigilance or readiness is likely to measured in KIA telegrams. People think we have reached the end of history or something, and that nothing bad can happen anymore. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    So maybe it means little to you, whose military experience is limited to some relative by marriage's spouse who had some tales about life as a military dependent. But for people closer to the pointy end of things, it still has plenty of meaning. For most Navy officers, it's a family business, father-to-son-to-grandson-to-great-grandson. Just because you have forgotten or allowed it to grow irrelevant, doesn't mean we have.

    Replies: @SteveRogers42, @Captain Tripps, @epebble

    My interpretation of what Jack wrote is (considering he interleaved it as a commentary on Emmett Till pushing aside Pearl Harbor remembrance), we have bigger problems from convulsions within than possible invasion from without. For those in the military (and their loved ones) possible invasion from without is always a bigger deal; but for the rest, convulsions within is scarier.

    • Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3
    @epebble

    I am not are not unaware that the greater threat lies within. But we have separated the kinetic portion of the various military services so far from the civilian experience that there is now this Faustian choice between junta and anarchy. How can we persist like this? It is tortuous to both modes of society.

  107. @Jack D
    First of all, it's Emmett, not Emmitt, and 2nd, a little 1 column inch box down at the bottom of the page, while technically "making the 1st page", barely counts.

    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Japan is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, China, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as.... the death of Emmett Till.

    Pearl Harbor reshaped the life of a generation. Before Pearl Harbor, my mother in law (still kicking at 99) had never traveled beyond 100 miles from her birthplace. Within a couple of years she was following her husband's military postings all across America - to the Deep South, to the Pacific Northwest, etc. Before Pearl Harbor, almost everyone she knew was Jewish and lived in her little Jewish neighborhood. Afterward, she became lifelong friends with a Mexican-American family from California and met people of all backgrounds and religions. Before, her work experience was working in small Jewish owned businesses. Afterward, she worked as a draftsman for a major American corporation that had not generally hired Jews before the war. In short, life was never the same. For better or worse, the little ethnic enclaves that dotted our cities were never the same again. After the war, she and her husband got a VA mortgage and moved out to a former potato field along with people of all sorts of backgrounds while her old neighborhood turned black. But that was a long time ago. How did Pearl Harbor influence my kids' life? Not much.

    Maybe Till's death should also be a dead letter but apparently it isn't. Historical memory is always selective - the CCP talks more about the Opium Wars than it does about the Cultural Revolution or the Tiananmen Square Massacre. For better or for worse, the relationship between Black America and White America is more of a live issue than the relationship between America and Japan.

    Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3, @AndrewR, @Buffalo Joe, @Chrisnonymous, @Ron Mexico, @epebble, @Dave Pinsen, @obwandiyag, @obwandiyag, @Moses, @Richard B

    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people.

    The Civil War is beyond living memory, and we just added “Juneteenth” as a national holiday this year.

    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
    @Dave Pinsen

    The vagaries of what is remembered and what isn’t. To be fair, the events in an obscure Polish town (I think it’s called Oswiecim) ended 76 years ago and you never hear about that. This was pointed out to me while I was visiting The United States Potato Famine Memorial and Museum in Washington D.C.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Dave Pinsen

    , @Colin Wright
    @Dave Pinsen

    'The Civil War is beyond living memory, and we just added “Juneteenth” as a national holiday this year.'

    Yes -- but Juneteenth is a gesture of submission. It serves a purpose.

  108. @Cloudswrest
    https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1468225533989294084

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy

    “Bomb violence,” no doubt.

  109. The America that you fondly remember no longer exists

  110. @danand
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Their ovaries and uteri are what are precious."

    Cæsar, speaking of ovaries, in the off chance those here haven't seen it yet:


    "Musk added that too many, good, smart people think there are too many people in the world and that the population is growing out of control.

    It’s completely the opposite, Musk said, urging people to look at the data. If people don’t have more children, civilization is going to crumble. Mark my words.

    When asked if this is why he has so many children, the father of six said he’s trying to set a good example, adding that he has to practice what he preaches."
     
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/07/elon-musk-civilization-will-crumble-if-we-dont-have-more-children.html

    Replies: @raga10, @Buffalo Joe

    dan, Musk is entitled to his opinion, which is stated form his lofty, but earned, level of privlege. Problem is, at least in some American communities, fathering children, but not contributing to their upbringing is the problem. Actually, that is the source of many of America’s seemingly unsolvable problems.

  111. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    WWII vets are getting really thin on the ground.
     
    And thick in the ground. A 90-year-old today was 14 at the end of the war.

    Derb once mentioned his son complaining that his friends' grandfathers had fought in Vietnam, while his own had fought in the First World War. This was about 20 years ago, too.

    Time dress-parades on.

    Replies: @D. K., @Bardon Kaldian, @PiltdownMan

    None of my elders who were of working age or served in the military in WWII are alive any more, the last passing away two years ago. Several of my first cousins have childhood memories of the war years, the oldest finished high school in 1945.

    Regarding Derb’s comment, PiltdownChild2, age 17, still can’t get her head around the fact that my grandfather—her great-grandfather—was born two years after the end of the Civil War, in 1867.

    By the same token, one of President John Tyler’s grandson’s is still alive, and Tyler was born in 1790, the first year of George Washington’s presidency.

  112. Remember Pearl Harbor…

  113. I’ll just… leave this here…

  114. For what it is worth…years ago I was the foreman (pusher was the term we used) of a crew of Ironworkers repairing a blast furnace. I was probably 20 or 21 years old. In my crew I had a guy who had been the captain of a B-17 in Europe and a guy who flew a plane from a carrier deck in the Pacific. Now just regular joes. My mother signed her brother into the Navy on his 16th birthday, this to keep him from joining the Marines. I can’t remember what I did on my 16th birthday, almost sixty years ago, but I bet my uncle never forgot his. He landed in North Africa and Anzio as part of naval assault forces. Boys becoming men over night. God bless them all.

    • Thanks: Captain Tripps, Voltarde
    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Buffalo Joe

    Hi Joe - I had a similar experience. When I was a new apprentice, one of the older foremen had been a Bosun’s Mate on the USS Franklin, CV-13. He joined up right after Pearl Harbor. He skipped breakfast the morning his ship was bombed, probably saving his life. He spent much of the day in a weapons magazine, tying ropes to aerial rockets so they could be hauled up and thrown overboard while the fires raged all around. He still spent some of his nights driving aimlessly around town so he could stay awake and not have nightmares as late as the year 2000.
    Another, recently retired foreman had joined the RCAF to get in the war before Pearl Harbor. He flew there and then got into the AAF later. He flew unarmed P38s doing bomb damage assessment over Northern Europe. Another was a Marine in the first wave that landed on Guadalcanal.
    I met all those guys around 1989 and went crazy when I found out what they had done. I couldn’t get enough of talking to them. There wasn’t another young guy who had any interest at all, even back then.
    May they Rest In Peace. Have a great Christmas, Joe.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  115. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    The point is to not remind why it was then with China against Japan, and now it's the other way around.

    CCP's narrative is that the Japanese are not sorry for nuffin for starting the war, they are only sorry for losing.


    Can’t believe these two events are happening at the same time. What it tells? pic.twitter.com/de5VCTiluI— Chen Weihua (陈卫华) (@chenweihua) December 7, 2021
     
    This is true to an extent--
    https://imgur.com/2mZYi1m

    Whereas from Japan's perspective, they've always had less to fear from faraway United States, than an Asian continental superpower, PRC, USSR, Mongol Empire.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Chrisnonymous, @SteveRogers42, @John Derbyshire, @The Wild Geese Howard, @anono

    Whereas from Japan’s perspective…

    Based on the map, I’d say the Japanese are quite grounded in reality.

  116. @Jack D
    @Kratoklastes

    There was no blockade. Any other country willing to do so could supply Japan. There was an embargo, meaning that we wouldn't do so any more. There is nothing illegal about an embargo.

    The embargo came only after Japan had taken a series of agressive steps including allying with Nazi Germany, securing neutrality from Stalin and occupying Indochina, which put it at the doorstep of the Phillipines. Japan had not yet declared war against the US but they were clearly preparing the battlefield and we would have been idiots to sell them the rope that they needed to hang us with (in Lenin's words).

    At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis claimed that they were just following orders. At Jussie Smollett's trial, he claimed that he was attacked and had nothing to do with setting it up. You can claim all you want but a lie is still a lie.

    Replies: @dimples, @Reg Cæsar, @Clifford Brown, @John Regan, @Sparkon

    There is nothing illegal about an embargo.

    No, but when you are supplying matériel to the other side, it erodes your claim of being a non-belligerent, and destroys any claim of neutrality. The question is not whether what we did was “illegal”, but what Japan did. Did our actions authorize an attack?

    • Replies: @Marquis
    @Reg Cæsar

    Japan one it was wrong; they debated it. You declare war before you attack a country.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Colin Wright
    @Reg Cæsar

    '...Did our actions authorize an attack?'

    No.

    In point of fact, embargoing Japan was about the minimum we could have done, morally, given what Japan was doing.

    If you're using horsewhips to beat your wife, and you keep coming into my store to buy more horsewhips, not only am I morally entitled to refuse to sell you any more, I'm morally obliged not to.

    I appreciate the appeal of revisionism, and it's often a useful corrective to the official story, but here, you would literally insist the US should have taken the wrong side, and not merely permitted evil, but profited from it.

    No, we shouldn't have kept selling Japan scrap steel. Nor should we have kept selling her oil. If Japan wanted those commodities, all she had to do was stop waging an incredibly murderous war of conquest in China.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj

  117. @Boomthorkell
    @Altai

    Ten years ago really feels like a time, doesn't it?

    I remember dating a lot of those early intersectionalists and giving them hard times with various social, economic and historical scenarios.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘I remember dating a lot of those early intersectionalists and giving them hard times with various social, economic and historical scenarios.’

    So did it work?

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
    @Colin Wright

    Define work (I didn't really have any goals, per se. I just enjoy debating people.) It was fun.

    After me, as far I was aware of, most of them eventually doubled down on the process that had got them started down that road.

    My greatest discovery was, simply, don't date just to date, and date people one generally agrees with in the ideological (religious, etc.) sense. In fairness, I'm sure if I settled on marrying someone, natural process would dictate most women would comport their politics and mindscape to the husband/lover (While they were with me, they gave quite a lot of leeway to my growing and strange ideology, etc. etc.) This isn't always the case, though.

  118. @Diversity Heretic
    @Reg Cæsar

    Edward s. Miller wrote a book entitled Bankrupting the Enemy, which is a detailed exposition of the economic and financial measures that the United States used against Japan in the late 1930s and early 1940s; embargoes of oil and freezing Japanese gold reserves are the most prominent but by no means all. One Japanese leader who was prosecuted for "beginning a war of aggression" countered with a vigorious, albeit unsuccessful, defense that when economic and financial sanctions reach a certain point, a military response is justified under international law.

    And I believe that the Japanese diplomatic note that accompanied the declaration of war said essentially that Japan wasn't doing anything in east Asia that the United States hadn't been doing in Latin America for a long time. Japan had never objected to those U.S. actions, so by what right did the United States object to Japanese actions in its sphere of influence?

    As for Roosevelt's knowledge of Japanese attack plans, the best explanation I've ever heard is that Roosevelt was hoping for an incident and got a catastrophe.

    What a shame it had to be a war with a country that Calvin Coolidge referred to as "America's natural friend."

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Clifford Brown

    As for Roosevelt’s knowledge of Japanese attack plans, the best explanation I’ve ever heard is that Roosevelt was hoping for an incident and got a catastrophe.

    Roosevelt and the Pentagon brass has access to critical Japanese communications and knew of the Pearl Harbor attack in advance. Roosevelt was desperate for a war to project American power and have thousands of Americans die in the name of Bolshevism.

    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
    @Clifford Brown

    Nah. Just a standard issue Covfefe

  119. @Jack D
    @Kratoklastes

    There was no blockade. Any other country willing to do so could supply Japan. There was an embargo, meaning that we wouldn't do so any more. There is nothing illegal about an embargo.

    The embargo came only after Japan had taken a series of agressive steps including allying with Nazi Germany, securing neutrality from Stalin and occupying Indochina, which put it at the doorstep of the Phillipines. Japan had not yet declared war against the US but they were clearly preparing the battlefield and we would have been idiots to sell them the rope that they needed to hang us with (in Lenin's words).

    At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis claimed that they were just following orders. At Jussie Smollett's trial, he claimed that he was attacked and had nothing to do with setting it up. You can claim all you want but a lie is still a lie.

    Replies: @dimples, @Reg Cæsar, @Clifford Brown, @John Regan, @Sparkon

    There is nothing illegal about an embargo.

    Now do BDS.

    The Japanese were no threat to the United States if we traded with them peacefully. There was plenty of land for them to exploit in Manchuria and preferably Siberia.

    • Agree: Gordo
  120. @AnotherDad
    @epebble

    -- December 7, 1781 : Not many thought a band of rebels can defeat the military of the mightiest nation on earth.

    Huh? Yorktown was in September 1781.
    After Saratoga in '77 the British realized they had an actual problem.
    Try 1776.


    -- December 7, 1861 : Not many thought the nation will self-destruct over a bunch of negroes

    The crisis had been building for decades and spectacularly during the late 1850s. (And wasn't about "negroes" but about different modes of production and the sort of societies they entail. I.e. the question of whether you're building a republic based on the labor of free white citizens or a plantation economy. It was basically the presence of Western territory that precluded that kept wrecking the "to each his own" compromise and kept things boiling.)

    By Dec 7, 1861 the war had been going on 8 months.


    -- December 7, 1941 : Not many were confidant U.S., fairly weak after a decade of Great Depression, can win over two powerful enemies overseas.

    Almost everyone sane and knowledgeable understood it. The world's largest economy tucked behind two oceans. Churchill's entire war plan was to hold out and find a way to drag the US in. Yamamoto--who'd studied at Harvard and been a military attache in the US--knew it. He was opposed to war with the US. In a set of bad options, he simply thought if there was to be a war, he at least wanted it to start with Japan ahead. But he perfectly predicted the arc--that even if successful his Pearl Harbor attack would only buy Japan a few months.


    -- December 7, 2021 : Not many think the nation can “win” against China…

    First off the United States isn't really a "nation" anymore. It's a bunch of squabbling tribes with a hostile elite, hostile to the core ethny of the American nation.

    Secondly, we can't "win". I'm pretty confident in any conventional showdown--at the current time--the US would convincingly beat China. But China would not like that and both the US and China have nuclear weapons that neither can stop. So in any serious conflict we both lose.

    The real issue is that China is now much, much more of a nation than the US, with a higher IQ population, and no minoritarian insanity ...while the US has been infected with this insane minoritarianism, worships queers and blacks and trannies, reacts to the screechings of girls on twitter and is waving in Haitians and assorted "shithole country" riffraff. So our future--unless we do a hard U--is bleak. (China's main issue is that it hasn't seriously prioritized eugenic fertility--the core modernity struggle--but at least it isn't actively killing itself.)

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @epebble

    Almost everyone sane and knowledgeable understood it. The world’s largest economy tucked behind two oceans.

    A single pair of statistics emphasizes the difference in industrial prowess.

    Between 1925 and 1935, the Japanese automotive industry produced about 221,000 cars in total, of which 208,000 were produced by GM, Ford and Chrysler in plants in Japan.

    By contrast, US automobile production onshore was over 3 million a year, in many years in that period, with production in even the worst year of the Depression, 1932, exceeding 1.1 million cars.


    https://alfred.stlouisfed.org/series?seid=M0107AUSM543NNBR&utm_source=series_page&utm_medium=related_content&utm_term=related_resources&utm_campaign=alfred

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Japan#Early_years

    • Replies: @Houston 1992
    @PiltdownMan

    Thanks , I did not appreciate just how small the Japanese automondustry was pre 1950…… Toyota got much momentum from Korean War orders from the Pentagon

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    , @Anonymous
    @PiltdownMan

    You can learn too much 'lessons of history'.

    Japan had a history of picking fights with much larger powers (China, Russia) and prevailing. The decision to go to war with the US was made in the same spirit. Material strength was less important than morale and determination.

    On the other hand, Japan had always backed down in the past when presented with ultimatums from Western powers. It was reasonable to assume they would do so again over this Indochinese issue. There would be threats and bluster but nothing more.

    , @epebble
    @PiltdownMan

    Millions of cars were produced; but there was also Grapes of Wrath situation in the country. A Chicken in Every Pot was a manifesto of Presidential election. The ability to build so many ships and planes was a miracle but by no means certain or even feasible from the perspective of 1941.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

  121. @74v56ruthiyj
    @prosa123

    My experience, not theory, is that male opposition to women in combat is fear that we'll get killed trying to pick up the slack for them.

    Replies: @TWS

    I have never once not ever seen a woman complete a physical fitness test to the male standard with the exception of a few who matched the sit ups

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @TWS

    Methinks you are missing a comma or two.

  122. @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    I am completely opposed to a military draft, but if there ever is one again it god-damned better include women.
    As I've said before, if anyone - I don't care who it is - says in my presence that women shouldn't be in combat because their lives are too precious, the obvious corollary of which is that men are expendable, it will take every last bit of my self control not to physically assault that person. And it may not be enough.

    Note to the autistics on this site who disagree: go die in a fire.

    Replies: @NickG, @Reg Cæsar, @education realist, @Joe S.Walker, @animalogic

    If there was a serious draft for women Canada would find itself with a new population of feminists.

  123. @Bragadocious
    Personally, I was shocked that the WW1 centenary wasn't a thing at all domestically, it was basically limited to Trump visiting France--where his enemies quickly piled on him for one thing or another. This from the Brits:

    https://twitter.com/NSoames/status/1061270124404113408

    That's funny coming from the country that expanded WW1 into a global conflict. So yeah, these war remembrances are toxic and political. Maybe we can change that, and all unite in 2022 to remember the 55th anniversary of the USS Liberty attack.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Mr. Anon, @Anonymous

    Personally, I was shocked that the WW1 centenary wasn’t a thing at all domestically…

    I noticed that too. Neither the anniversary of the outbreak nor of the Armistice seemed to elicit any notice. In the US at least. Maybe in Europe is was a different, allthough I got the impression that they didn’t make too big a deal out of it either.

    Also, this year is the 500th anniversary of the conquest of Mexico by Cortes, and last year the 400th anniversary of the Mayflower landing at Plymouth Rock. Neither of those seemed to draw any attention either.

    The people who set the narrative want us to live in a perpetual present. History is dangerous.

    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @Mr. Anon

    BBC History magazine, the People of mostly British history, ran a series of personal histories of WWI participants, famous and not, every month 2014-18, plus big articles at the centenary of major battles. While taking a crap this evening, I read in a 2019 issue about a Russian-Austro-Hungarian battle early in the war.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  124. @Reg Cæsar
    @Achmed E. Newman


    PS: Yeah, I know, Reg, Hawaii wasn’t a State then, either…
     
    Or now, either. Funny how Republican crimes such as stealing islands in both oceans is so thoroughly silenced nowadays-- by Democrats. Cui bono.

    (BTW, if someone is ignorant enough not to know of Hawaii's non-statehood at the time, I'll leave the corrections to the 50 others who'll chime in.)

    The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so? Had we already committed acts of war? Or even just entered into an unspoken alliance with their enemies?

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Kratoklastes, @Diversity Heretic, @Mike Tre, @mike99588, @Jack D

    Hawaii was in a state.. of transition. It was the first tectonic-fluid non-binary archipelago territory ever.

  125. @Dave Pinsen
    @Jack D


    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people.
     
    The Civil War is beyond living memory, and we just added “Juneteenth” as a national holiday this year.

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong, @Colin Wright

    The vagaries of what is remembered and what isn’t. To be fair, the events in an obscure Polish town (I think it’s called Oswiecim) ended 76 years ago and you never hear about that. This was pointed out to me while I was visiting The United States Potato Famine Memorial and Museum in Washington D.C.

    • LOL: JMcG
    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Jack Armstrong

    This was pointed out to me while I was visiting The United States Potato Famine Memorial and Museum in Washington D.C.


    Well , if the Irish wanted to start a Potato Famine industry they shouldn't have spent their time knocking back Jameson boilermakers. They should have gone to School, worked hard, and bought up the organs of mass media.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Jack Armstrong

    Museums--especially ones in a national capital--are inherently political. There shouldn't be a Holocaust Museum in DC.

  126. @Clifford Brown
    @Diversity Heretic


    As for Roosevelt’s knowledge of Japanese attack plans, the best explanation I’ve ever heard is that Roosevelt was hoping for an incident and got a catastrophe.
     
    Roosevelt and the Pentagon brass has access to critical Japanese communications and knew of the Pearl Harbor attack in advance. Roosevelt was desperate for a war to project American power and have thousands of Americans die in the name of Bolshevism.

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong

    Nah. Just a standard issue Covfefe

  127. @epebble
    @Jack D

    It is less and less relevant to our future

    An easy way to visualize this:

    December 7, 1781 : Not many thought a band of rebels can defeat the military of the mightiest nation on earth.
    December 7, 1861 : Not many thought the nation will self-destruct over a bunch of negroes
    December 7, 1941 : Not many were confidant U.S., fairly weak after a decade of Great Depression, can win over two powerful enemies overseas.
    December 7, 2021 : Not many think the nation can "win" against China...

    December 7, 2101 : Somebody will be writing how wrong the commenters were in 2021.

    Futurology is a dangerous profession!

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Houston 1992, @kaganovitch, @Jim Don Bob

    America was a 98% self -sufficient autarchic nation until perhaps 1980. (Ok usa imported but it did not need the imports …)

    When we started / induced wars with Japan and NS Germany there was no fear that we needed Japanese or German imports. Today , we import pharma as well as a manufactured goods from China. A war with China is an impossibility unless it ends within a few weeks with a comprehensive USA victory and the defeated China compliant with our import needs …. Seems far fetched to me

  128. @PiltdownMan
    @AnotherDad


    Almost everyone sane and knowledgeable understood it. The world’s largest economy tucked behind two oceans.
     
    A single pair of statistics emphasizes the difference in industrial prowess.

    Between 1925 and 1935, the Japanese automotive industry produced about 221,000 cars in total, of which 208,000 were produced by GM, Ford and Chrysler in plants in Japan.

    By contrast, US automobile production onshore was over 3 million a year, in many years in that period, with production in even the worst year of the Depression, 1932, exceeding 1.1 million cars.



    https://alfred.stlouisfed.org/series?seid=M0107AUSM543NNBR&utm_source=series_page&utm_medium=related_content&utm_term=related_resources&utm_campaign=alfred

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Japan#Early_years

     

    Replies: @Houston 1992, @Anonymous, @epebble

    Thanks , I did not appreciate just how small the Japanese automondustry was pre 1950…… Toyota got much momentum from Korean War orders from the Pentagon

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Houston 1992

    'automondustry' is an excellent coinage. Thanks.

  129. “About 40 years ago, I noticed that the single most common bit in the history of American movies was happy people listening to big band music on the radio on December 7, 1941 when they hear: “We interrupt this broadcast …”

    I haven’t heard that in a long time.”

    Are you suggesting that you’d like to see/read on a PC screen, [from totally out of the blue] words akin to what the US heard on December 7, 1941?

    Be careful what you wish for, Steve.

  130. Anon[409] • Disclaimer says:

    Back in the early seventies a local Los Angeles radio station rebroadcast its archived Pearl Harbor audio every December 7, or at least a reconstructed edit of broadcasts from that day. My fifth grade teacher was a veteran who had survived the attack, and the entire day was spent listening to that radio station and listening to firsthand anecdotes from the teacher — my favorite teacher ever, by the way, a great guy, and one of two superb white male teachers I had in elementary school.

  131. @AnotherDad
    @raga10


    Civilisation doesn’t need any more people and if it is going to crumble it certainly won’t be for lack of people!
     
    Raga10, you missed Musk's point.

    I'll highlight the key words:

    Musk added that too many “good, smart people” think there are too many people in the world and that the population is growing out of control.

    “It’s completely the opposite,” Musk said, urging people to look at the data. “If people don’t have more children, civilization is going to crumble.
     
    Musk knows perfectly that Africa's population is exploding. His comment is directly to "good smart people"--the sort of people who create and maintain "civilization". You can't ask him to make it any clearer and get himself or Tesla cancelled.

    Replies: @raga10

    Raga10, you missed Musk’s point.

    I don’t think I have; He didn’t mean to imply the problem is that the smart ones aren’t breeding, he really thinks there just aren’t enough people in the world.
    I believe my interpretation is correct because this is not his first post on the matter. For example back in 2017 he tweeted: “The world’s population is accelerating towards collapse, but few seem to notice or care”. That does sound like something that I would say meaning overpopulation, but he meant it in the opposite sense: He was commenting on an article from New Scientist magazine titled, “The world in 2076: The population bomb has imploded.”

    source: https://www.technocracy.news/elon-musk-global-population-collapsing-nobody-seems-care/

  132. @Not Raul

    About 40 years ago, I noticed that the single most common bit in the history of American movies was happy people listening to big band music on the radio on December 7, 1941 when they hear: “We interrupt this broadcast …”

    I haven’t heard that in a long time.
     
    Perhaps 9/11 replaced Pearl Harbor, Jihadists replaced Japanese, etc.

    We don’t seem to hear as much about the Boston Massacre anymore, either.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    We don’t seem to hear as much about the Boston Massacre anymore, either.

    Some of at least know what it was and have some idea of its significance.

  133. @Bragadocious
    Personally, I was shocked that the WW1 centenary wasn't a thing at all domestically, it was basically limited to Trump visiting France--where his enemies quickly piled on him for one thing or another. This from the Brits:

    https://twitter.com/NSoames/status/1061270124404113408

    That's funny coming from the country that expanded WW1 into a global conflict. So yeah, these war remembrances are toxic and political. Maybe we can change that, and all unite in 2022 to remember the 55th anniversary of the USS Liberty attack.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Mr. Anon, @Anonymous

    Trump has to be careful what he says on this topic, but I’m pretty sure he dislikes all the wars fought by the US last century, including the big one. He has no desire to commemorate mistakes.

  134. @Jack D
    First of all, it's Emmett, not Emmitt, and 2nd, a little 1 column inch box down at the bottom of the page, while technically "making the 1st page", barely counts.

    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Japan is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, China, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as.... the death of Emmett Till.

    Pearl Harbor reshaped the life of a generation. Before Pearl Harbor, my mother in law (still kicking at 99) had never traveled beyond 100 miles from her birthplace. Within a couple of years she was following her husband's military postings all across America - to the Deep South, to the Pacific Northwest, etc. Before Pearl Harbor, almost everyone she knew was Jewish and lived in her little Jewish neighborhood. Afterward, she became lifelong friends with a Mexican-American family from California and met people of all backgrounds and religions. Before, her work experience was working in small Jewish owned businesses. Afterward, she worked as a draftsman for a major American corporation that had not generally hired Jews before the war. In short, life was never the same. For better or worse, the little ethnic enclaves that dotted our cities were never the same again. After the war, she and her husband got a VA mortgage and moved out to a former potato field along with people of all sorts of backgrounds while her old neighborhood turned black. But that was a long time ago. How did Pearl Harbor influence my kids' life? Not much.

    Maybe Till's death should also be a dead letter but apparently it isn't. Historical memory is always selective - the CCP talks more about the Opium Wars than it does about the Cultural Revolution or the Tiananmen Square Massacre. For better or for worse, the relationship between Black America and White America is more of a live issue than the relationship between America and Japan.

    Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3, @AndrewR, @Buffalo Joe, @Chrisnonymous, @Ron Mexico, @epebble, @Dave Pinsen, @obwandiyag, @obwandiyag, @Moses, @Richard B

    WWII is a massive, earth-shaking world-transforming cataclysm of proportions never seen before in human history, a war that we are still living through to this day in a thousand concrete ways.

    So your argument is that only old people were alive when the official dates of the war occurred.

    Not feeble or anything. Childish, more like. Children don’t know the value of anything.

    • Replies: @Old Prude
    @obwandiyag

    Currently listening to Dan Carlin's hard core history, covering the Pacific in early '45: Horror of ground combat on Okinawa, and the fire bombing of Tokyo. The match was Pearl Harbor. The lesson is don't ever start an industrial war. The horrors of '45 will be quaint compared to what could be done today.

    Pearl Harbor should be remembered by the U.S. at this point only as a reminder that we should never start another war. Whether we started that fight or not is irrelevant today. By the end, we were incinerating hundreds of thousand civilians on a regular basis, or fighting and dying in the mud with rotting flesh, maggots and dysentery on some no account spit of land.

    I'm glad those folks got the job done, but it's not something to wish to be repeated.

    Replies: @raga10

  135. @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    The US is not some isolated tribe perpetually on the brink of extinction, for which the loss of even a few women could spell demographic disaster. If half of the US combat deaths in Vietnam or even World War II had been women the effects on the nation's long-term demographic growth would have been minimal and completely gone in a generation.

    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are "too delicate" for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that's a different issue). You'll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Finally, some Beta losers think that infantilizing and patronizing women is a surefire way to get magnificent women to drop their panties for them. Newsflash: it doesn't work.

    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj, @Wilkey, @R.G. Camara, @Alfa158, @Kratoklastes, @Hibernian, @David Davenport, @Mike Tre, @nebulafox, @Anonymous

    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are “too delicate” for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that’s a different issue). You’ll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Some women are very athletic… …compared to other women. If you don’t understand that, you’re hopeless.

  136. @Jack D
    First of all, it's Emmett, not Emmitt, and 2nd, a little 1 column inch box down at the bottom of the page, while technically "making the 1st page", barely counts.

    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Japan is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, China, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as.... the death of Emmett Till.

    Pearl Harbor reshaped the life of a generation. Before Pearl Harbor, my mother in law (still kicking at 99) had never traveled beyond 100 miles from her birthplace. Within a couple of years she was following her husband's military postings all across America - to the Deep South, to the Pacific Northwest, etc. Before Pearl Harbor, almost everyone she knew was Jewish and lived in her little Jewish neighborhood. Afterward, she became lifelong friends with a Mexican-American family from California and met people of all backgrounds and religions. Before, her work experience was working in small Jewish owned businesses. Afterward, she worked as a draftsman for a major American corporation that had not generally hired Jews before the war. In short, life was never the same. For better or worse, the little ethnic enclaves that dotted our cities were never the same again. After the war, she and her husband got a VA mortgage and moved out to a former potato field along with people of all sorts of backgrounds while her old neighborhood turned black. But that was a long time ago. How did Pearl Harbor influence my kids' life? Not much.

    Maybe Till's death should also be a dead letter but apparently it isn't. Historical memory is always selective - the CCP talks more about the Opium Wars than it does about the Cultural Revolution or the Tiananmen Square Massacre. For better or for worse, the relationship between Black America and White America is more of a live issue than the relationship between America and Japan.

    Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3, @AndrewR, @Buffalo Joe, @Chrisnonymous, @Ron Mexico, @epebble, @Dave Pinsen, @obwandiyag, @obwandiyag, @Moses, @Richard B

    You are the perfect identity politics shill. All “reasonable” sounding. Reasonable if you are a child, and don’t know what reason is.

    The relationship between Black America and White America may well be a live issue. Forced on us by elites. But it is a lie and a diversion, and it shouldn’t be an issue. The only real issue is class, i.e., money. Race analysis (conveniently) crushes class analysis.

    Both racists and anti-racists are the same chumps. Because they can’t see the truth sitting right in front of them–all that matters is money, who’s got it, who don’t, where it went, how to get more.

    And WWII was a grand reshuffling of money. All wars are.

    Race, on the other hand, is triviality. A useful decoy to sucker the rubes away from their own interests. Including the black rubes.

  137. @Mr. Anon
    @Bragadocious


    Personally, I was shocked that the WW1 centenary wasn’t a thing at all domestically...
     
    I noticed that too. Neither the anniversary of the outbreak nor of the Armistice seemed to elicit any notice. In the US at least. Maybe in Europe is was a different, allthough I got the impression that they didn't make too big a deal out of it either.

    Also, this year is the 500th anniversary of the conquest of Mexico by Cortes, and last year the 400th anniversary of the Mayflower landing at Plymouth Rock. Neither of those seemed to draw any attention either.

    The people who set the narrative want us to live in a perpetual present. History is dangerous.

    Replies: @Ralph L

    BBC History magazine, the People of mostly British history, ran a series of personal histories of WWI participants, famous and not, every month 2014-18, plus big articles at the centenary of major battles. While taking a crap this evening, I read in a 2019 issue about a Russian-Austro-Hungarian battle early in the war.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Ralph L

    While taking a crap this evening, I read...
     

    Are you trying to make us Ralph, too?
  138. @Alfa158
    That is odd; I thought it would have made sense for the NYT, which is a major channel for MIC warmongering, to put a story about Pearl Harbor on the same page as the Ukraine story since the purpose of the Ukraine narrative is to promote the next World War.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    The “Band of Brothers” and “Greatest Generation” talk a while back, while good in that it honored the sacrifices of those who came before us, was intended by the elite at least in part to drum up (pun intended) support for Neocon wars. (My dad was too young, avoided the Korean War draft, and then lost his draft exemption and served in the USMC 1954-57.) Today’s leftist politicians with few exceptions just think the military is yucky and don’t want to honor veterans. That won’t stop them from, as Colin Powell said of Madeleine Albright, using the troops as chess pieces on a worldwide board when the occasion arises

  139. Anonymous[179] • Disclaimer says:
    @PiltdownMan
    @AnotherDad


    Almost everyone sane and knowledgeable understood it. The world’s largest economy tucked behind two oceans.
     
    A single pair of statistics emphasizes the difference in industrial prowess.

    Between 1925 and 1935, the Japanese automotive industry produced about 221,000 cars in total, of which 208,000 were produced by GM, Ford and Chrysler in plants in Japan.

    By contrast, US automobile production onshore was over 3 million a year, in many years in that period, with production in even the worst year of the Depression, 1932, exceeding 1.1 million cars.



    https://alfred.stlouisfed.org/series?seid=M0107AUSM543NNBR&utm_source=series_page&utm_medium=related_content&utm_term=related_resources&utm_campaign=alfred

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Japan#Early_years

     

    Replies: @Houston 1992, @Anonymous, @epebble

    You can learn too much ‘lessons of history’.

    Japan had a history of picking fights with much larger powers (China, Russia) and prevailing. The decision to go to war with the US was made in the same spirit. Material strength was less important than morale and determination.

    On the other hand, Japan had always backed down in the past when presented with ultimatums from Western powers. It was reasonable to assume they would do so again over this Indochinese issue. There would be threats and bluster but nothing more.

  140. @AnotherDad
    @epebble

    -- December 7, 1781 : Not many thought a band of rebels can defeat the military of the mightiest nation on earth.

    Huh? Yorktown was in September 1781.
    After Saratoga in '77 the British realized they had an actual problem.
    Try 1776.


    -- December 7, 1861 : Not many thought the nation will self-destruct over a bunch of negroes

    The crisis had been building for decades and spectacularly during the late 1850s. (And wasn't about "negroes" but about different modes of production and the sort of societies they entail. I.e. the question of whether you're building a republic based on the labor of free white citizens or a plantation economy. It was basically the presence of Western territory that precluded that kept wrecking the "to each his own" compromise and kept things boiling.)

    By Dec 7, 1861 the war had been going on 8 months.


    -- December 7, 1941 : Not many were confidant U.S., fairly weak after a decade of Great Depression, can win over two powerful enemies overseas.

    Almost everyone sane and knowledgeable understood it. The world's largest economy tucked behind two oceans. Churchill's entire war plan was to hold out and find a way to drag the US in. Yamamoto--who'd studied at Harvard and been a military attache in the US--knew it. He was opposed to war with the US. In a set of bad options, he simply thought if there was to be a war, he at least wanted it to start with Japan ahead. But he perfectly predicted the arc--that even if successful his Pearl Harbor attack would only buy Japan a few months.


    -- December 7, 2021 : Not many think the nation can “win” against China…

    First off the United States isn't really a "nation" anymore. It's a bunch of squabbling tribes with a hostile elite, hostile to the core ethny of the American nation.

    Secondly, we can't "win". I'm pretty confident in any conventional showdown--at the current time--the US would convincingly beat China. But China would not like that and both the US and China have nuclear weapons that neither can stop. So in any serious conflict we both lose.

    The real issue is that China is now much, much more of a nation than the US, with a higher IQ population, and no minoritarian insanity ...while the US has been infected with this insane minoritarianism, worships queers and blacks and trannies, reacts to the screechings of girls on twitter and is waving in Haitians and assorted "shithole country" riffraff. So our future--unless we do a hard U--is bleak. (China's main issue is that it hasn't seriously prioritized eugenic fertility--the core modernity struggle--but at least it isn't actively killing itself.)

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @epebble

    Thank you for your reply. Obviously, I have taken liberties with dates to create an appearance of 80 year epochs.

    For 1941, I think, a fair number of people were not sure that, in spite of a large economy, we had the wherewithal to mount a defense strong enough to save Europe from Hitler (and Mussolini) before he completely conquered them.

    For 2021, I used “win”, not in military sense, but to win the mindshare against the spreading wisdom that America is a has-been and that 21st Century belongs to China.

  141. @PiltdownMan
    @AnotherDad


    Almost everyone sane and knowledgeable understood it. The world’s largest economy tucked behind two oceans.
     
    A single pair of statistics emphasizes the difference in industrial prowess.

    Between 1925 and 1935, the Japanese automotive industry produced about 221,000 cars in total, of which 208,000 were produced by GM, Ford and Chrysler in plants in Japan.

    By contrast, US automobile production onshore was over 3 million a year, in many years in that period, with production in even the worst year of the Depression, 1932, exceeding 1.1 million cars.



    https://alfred.stlouisfed.org/series?seid=M0107AUSM543NNBR&utm_source=series_page&utm_medium=related_content&utm_term=related_resources&utm_campaign=alfred

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Japan#Early_years

     

    Replies: @Houston 1992, @Anonymous, @epebble

    Millions of cars were produced; but there was also Grapes of Wrath situation in the country. A Chicken in Every Pot was a manifesto of Presidential election. The ability to build so many ships and planes was a miracle but by no means certain or even feasible from the perspective of 1941.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @epebble

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrclztGCg6M

  142. @Stogumber
    Memory relies on an emotional need to relive emotions again and again. And that's different for every generation. There are a lot of old people nowadays who try to relive the CRM (civil rights movement) era again and again. A real CRM nostalgia, and even some youngsters who want to replicate the noble and heroic deeds of their ancestors. That's why Emmett Till is inevitable in our present days. Let it be ...

    Replies: @D. K., @anon, @Yngvar

    Which “civil right” was Till engaged in when he sexually accosted a married woman, in her own store?

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
    @D. K.

    "A right I want to have!"

    - A person who isn't fond of a stable society, good manners or common sense.

  143. @Reg Cæsar
    @Achmed E. Newman


    PS: Yeah, I know, Reg, Hawaii wasn’t a State then, either…
     
    Or now, either. Funny how Republican crimes such as stealing islands in both oceans is so thoroughly silenced nowadays-- by Democrats. Cui bono.

    (BTW, if someone is ignorant enough not to know of Hawaii's non-statehood at the time, I'll leave the corrections to the 50 others who'll chime in.)

    The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so? Had we already committed acts of war? Or even just entered into an unspoken alliance with their enemies?

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Kratoklastes, @Diversity Heretic, @Mike Tre, @mike99588, @Jack D

    The US and Japan were on a collision course by 1900 as wannabe hegemons.
    Japan occupied Taiwan in 1895 and the US occupied the Philippines in 1898.
    The US “brokered” the 1904 Russian – Japanese peace treaty, not through idle talk.
    Roosevelts on both ends of the pitch…

    USNA graduates were made aware of these geopolitics for decades before.
    Robert Heinlein mentions it too.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @mike99588


    USNA graduates were made aware of these geopolitics for decades before.
     
    Jimmy Carter was at Annapolis during the war. As a Georgian, he could vote in 1944, at age 20. Has anyone read his memoirs? Did he do so?
  144. @epebble
    @Jack D

    It is less and less relevant to our future

    An easy way to visualize this:

    December 7, 1781 : Not many thought a band of rebels can defeat the military of the mightiest nation on earth.
    December 7, 1861 : Not many thought the nation will self-destruct over a bunch of negroes
    December 7, 1941 : Not many were confidant U.S., fairly weak after a decade of Great Depression, can win over two powerful enemies overseas.
    December 7, 2021 : Not many think the nation can "win" against China...

    December 7, 2101 : Somebody will be writing how wrong the commenters were in 2021.

    Futurology is a dangerous profession!

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Houston 1992, @kaganovitch, @Jim Don Bob

    Somebody will be writing how wrong the commenters were in 2021.

    What language will they be writing that in?

    • Replies: @epebble
    @kaganovitch

    English. The demographics and culture in 2101 will be as different as 2021's is from 1941's. But official language will remain English. Not even the Hispanics, the largest linguistic group, are interested in a bilingual nation. They just want to be left alone to use the language among themselves. They opposed Spanish only schooling for their kids in California.

  145. @Colin Wright
    @American Citizen

    '...The media has no interest today in glorifying and memorializing the people who fought in the war and built America postwar. The heroes of the past are today’s domestic terrorist.'

    Indeed. Kyle Rittenhouse is exactly the kind of kid who was down there volunteering for the Marine Corps on the morning of December 8th.

    Replies: @Alrenous

    Agreed.

    Pearl Harbor was an attack on RedGov. Why would BluGov get activated about that? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If anything BluGov is an implicit ally with Imperial Japan. “Shame the latter doesn’t still exist, eh?”

    Curious how America’s colour for Communist is now blue. Say hit to twitter and facebook.

  146. @Colin Wright
    @Reg Cæsar

    'The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so? Had we already committed acts of war? Or even just entered into an unspoken alliance with their enemies?'

    'n the por innocent Japanese were just tryin' to do a Genghis Khan reenactment in China, and we wouldn't sell 'em the steel 'n stuff they needed to continue.

    Replies: @Jefferson Temple, @but an humble craftsman

    Seems similar to the current Huff about Russia and Ukraine. Now, as then, why the hell is it any of our business?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Jefferson Temple

    'Seems similar to the current Huff about Russia and Ukraine. Now, as then, why the hell is it any of our business?'

    You're comparing apples and oranges. Then, it was a matter of a power pursuing a horrific war of conquest -- and we were merely declining to continue to sell them raw materials for so long as they continued.

    Now, it's a matter of stomping around in a rather convoluted question, with regards to a country that has hardly started committing the greatest atrocities in living memory, and with respect to which we are proposing to do considerably more than merely stop selling Russia whatever.

    It's as if you said, 'you called the police when that man started raping that girl on the front lawn -- so why can't I shoot you when your dog takes a crap on the sidewalk?'

    Two different things.

  147. @American Citizen
    Pearl Harbor was the catalyst for (white) America to join WWII and win it.

    The media has no interest today in glorifying and memorializing the people who fought in the war and built America postwar. The heroes of the past are today's domestic terrorist.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Moses, @JimDandy

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again — Non-Whites do not care one iota for White American history. Not one bit.

    It’s not their history. Why should they care about it?

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Moses

    I’ve spent some time at the Gettysburg Battlefield. I’ve never seen an adult black there. Some kids on field trips, maybe, but never an adult or family. You’re right, they couldn’t care less.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    , @Jack D
    @Moses

    It's in the news today that the statue of Robert E. Lee from Charlottesville (the one that was the subject of the "Unite the Right" rally) is going to be melted down and made into a new piece of public art by an African American heritage center.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/07/charlottesville-robert-e-lee-statue-melted

    What are the chances that the "new art" will be a statue of a black person? 100%? 110%?

    At first these statues were just going to be "relocated" (to the east, perhaps?), because "liberals" had qualms about destroying works of art. Remove them from a place of honor, sure, but put them somewhere else where they could be viewed in context as a product of their times. Maybe there would be a explanatory sign next to the statue informing us about the racist "Lost Cause" myth, telling us the "proper" way to think about it as a symbol of white privilege, yada, yada.

    But now we are literally in the iconoclastic phase of the Revolution. As you say, blacks don't really care for any history except for their own (not that whites ever cared much about black history either) and now that they are in charge they are going to literally remake history in their own image. We don't need no stinkin' explanatory signs, just melt that cracker.

    See, you boil the frog gradually. At first you are only removing the statue. Then you are melting it into unspecified "new art". Only in step 3 do you announce that it is going to be a statue of a Nat Turner or Toussaint Louverture. Or maybe Malcolm X since most blacks can't spell Toussaint Louverture.

    As Heine (almost) said, "Wherever they melt statues, in the end they will also melt human beings."

    Replies: @rebel yell, @Moses

    , @Richard B
    @Moses


    Why should they care about it?
     
    You ask the question as if it can't be answered. But of course it can be.

    They should care because they've benefitted from it. Obviously. It's also hypocritcal for them not to since they're demanding that whites value them unconditionally, not just because of some fantasy interpretation of their past, but simply because they're them.

    On the other hand, it's also true that not a few whites could care less about White American history. Then again, Radical Ingratitude is one of the primary attributes of the masses of any color.

  148. @Loyalty Over IQ Worship
    FDR was a political genius. He suckered the Japanese into attacking us. He and Churchill were able to save their buddy Stalin.

    Did Churchill regret destroying the British Empire to save Uncle Joe' Empire?

    https://www.history.com/.image/t_share/MTczMTc4Njg3NjQ5MjI4NTk0/wwii-big-three-gettyimages-463899845.jpg

    Replies: @Alrenous

    America has a long tradition of benefiting from traitors to the English crown. All that’s necessary for evil to triumph is for Churchill to envy his countrymen more than he dislikes America.

  149. @Colin Wright
    @Boomthorkell

    'I remember dating a lot of those early intersectionalists and giving them hard times with various social, economic and historical scenarios.'

    So did it work?

    Replies: @Boomthorkell

    Define work (I didn’t really have any goals, per se. I just enjoy debating people.) It was fun.

    After me, as far I was aware of, most of them eventually doubled down on the process that had got them started down that road.

    My greatest discovery was, simply, don’t date just to date, and date people one generally agrees with in the ideological (religious, etc.) sense. In fairness, I’m sure if I settled on marrying someone, natural process would dictate most women would comport their politics and mindscape to the husband/lover (While they were with me, they gave quite a lot of leeway to my growing and strange ideology, etc. etc.) This isn’t always the case, though.

  150. @D. K.
    @Stogumber

    Which "civil right" was Till engaged in when he sexually accosted a married woman, in her own store?

    Replies: @Boomthorkell

    “A right I want to have!”

    – A person who isn’t fond of a stable society, good manners or common sense.

  151. @Jack D
    First of all, it's Emmett, not Emmitt, and 2nd, a little 1 column inch box down at the bottom of the page, while technically "making the 1st page", barely counts.

    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Japan is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, China, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as.... the death of Emmett Till.

    Pearl Harbor reshaped the life of a generation. Before Pearl Harbor, my mother in law (still kicking at 99) had never traveled beyond 100 miles from her birthplace. Within a couple of years she was following her husband's military postings all across America - to the Deep South, to the Pacific Northwest, etc. Before Pearl Harbor, almost everyone she knew was Jewish and lived in her little Jewish neighborhood. Afterward, she became lifelong friends with a Mexican-American family from California and met people of all backgrounds and religions. Before, her work experience was working in small Jewish owned businesses. Afterward, she worked as a draftsman for a major American corporation that had not generally hired Jews before the war. In short, life was never the same. For better or worse, the little ethnic enclaves that dotted our cities were never the same again. After the war, she and her husband got a VA mortgage and moved out to a former potato field along with people of all sorts of backgrounds while her old neighborhood turned black. But that was a long time ago. How did Pearl Harbor influence my kids' life? Not much.

    Maybe Till's death should also be a dead letter but apparently it isn't. Historical memory is always selective - the CCP talks more about the Opium Wars than it does about the Cultural Revolution or the Tiananmen Square Massacre. For better or for worse, the relationship between Black America and White America is more of a live issue than the relationship between America and Japan.

    Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3, @AndrewR, @Buffalo Joe, @Chrisnonymous, @Ron Mexico, @epebble, @Dave Pinsen, @obwandiyag, @obwandiyag, @Moses, @Richard B

    Lol. Indulge me in a little thought exercise, courtesy Jack.

    TBH, the Holocaust happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Germany is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, Russia, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as…. the death of Emmett Till.

    Pretty sure Jack would call the above “anti-semitic”. Amirite Jack?

    I guess some contemporaneous historical events are more ancient history than others, if you know what I mean.

    • Agree: Richard B
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Moses

    Most (at least older) Americans know that Pearl Harbor day is Dec. 7. Can you (without looking it up) tell me the date of Yom HaShoah (Holocaust Remembrance Day)? Is that day usually mentioned on the front page of the NY Times?

    Replies: @JMcG, @Colin Wright, @Rex Little

    , @Richard B
    @Moses

    Of course the big difference between those two historical events is that we can prove Pearl Harbor happened. Oh, that and the fact that it's ok to question its value as an historical event and discuss it from a number of different perspectives.

  152. @Colin Wright
    @Reg Cæsar

    'The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so? Had we already committed acts of war? Or even just entered into an unspoken alliance with their enemies?'

    'n the por innocent Japanese were just tryin' to do a Genghis Khan reenactment in China, and we wouldn't sell 'em the steel 'n stuff they needed to continue.

    Replies: @Jefferson Temple, @but an humble craftsman

    Fool.

    I could elaborate, but if you do not know better at your age, you have the wish to not know better.

    I respect that wish.

  153. @AnotherDad
    You'd think they'd want to commemorate how the Red Tails valiantly stepped up and defeated the Nazis after they attacked Pearl Harbor.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    You’d think they’d want to commemorate how the Red Tails valiantly stepped up and defeated the Nazis after they attacked Pearl Harbor.

    When I was a wee lad,I tutored one semester at a Community College – I had the following conversation (true story)
    “During the Pacific war , the American strategy of island hopping …” Yo, teach, what was the Pacific War ? “The Pacific War was the conflict between America and Japan during WW2.” Wo,wo, you sayin’ America had a war with Japan? “Yes, indeed they did.” No Shit, Who won?

    • Replies: @hhsiii
    @kaganovitch

    Ha, like Yo Teach, the fake sitcom in Apatow's Funny People. They actually aired clips from this on NBC. With Jason Schwartzman as Mr. Bradford. I think Rerun played the principal.

  154. @TWS
    @74v56ruthiyj

    I have never once not ever seen a woman complete a physical fitness test to the male standard with the exception of a few who matched the sit ups

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    Methinks you are missing a comma or two.

  155. @Jack Armstrong
    @Dave Pinsen

    The vagaries of what is remembered and what isn’t. To be fair, the events in an obscure Polish town (I think it’s called Oswiecim) ended 76 years ago and you never hear about that. This was pointed out to me while I was visiting The United States Potato Famine Memorial and Museum in Washington D.C.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Dave Pinsen

    This was pointed out to me while I was visiting The United States Potato Famine Memorial and Museum in Washington D.C.

    Well , if the Irish wanted to start a Potato Famine industry they shouldn’t have spent their time knocking back Jameson boilermakers. They should have gone to School, worked hard, and bought up the organs of mass media.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @kaganovitch

    Let's say there were a Potato Famine Museum in DC. How would that help the average Irish American? How do you think the Holocaust Museum helps the average Jewish American?

    Replies: @kaganovitch

  156. anon[226] • Disclaimer says:
    @Stogumber
    Memory relies on an emotional need to relive emotions again and again. And that's different for every generation. There are a lot of old people nowadays who try to relive the CRM (civil rights movement) era again and again. A real CRM nostalgia, and even some youngsters who want to replicate the noble and heroic deeds of their ancestors. That's why Emmett Till is inevitable in our present days. Let it be ...

    Replies: @D. K., @anon, @Yngvar

    That’s why if they had any integrity, they would do authentic reenactments, like the Civil War buffs. None of those guys, which include lots of “lost cause” believers ever decide to do actually refight the damn thing.

    But the real Civil War, was especially not fun.

    Whereas the real Civil Rights movement was mostly virtue signaling and inner city rioting. So hell yes, let’s have a do over. Even though some black areas got burned during the Floyd rampage, they seem ok with it for the most part.

  157. @James Braxton
    How would America be different today if instead of plunging into all out world war, we had responded in kind to Japan's attack and called it a day?

    Replies: @anon, @Flip, @Muggles

    The seeds of our current state were sown long ago. It’s not like everything was fine and dandy until “woke” showed up.

  158. @Jack Armstrong
    @Dave Pinsen

    The vagaries of what is remembered and what isn’t. To be fair, the events in an obscure Polish town (I think it’s called Oswiecim) ended 76 years ago and you never hear about that. This was pointed out to me while I was visiting The United States Potato Famine Memorial and Museum in Washington D.C.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Dave Pinsen

    Museums–especially ones in a national capital–are inherently political. There shouldn’t be a Holocaust Museum in DC.

  159. @kaganovitch
    @Jack Armstrong

    This was pointed out to me while I was visiting The United States Potato Famine Memorial and Museum in Washington D.C.


    Well , if the Irish wanted to start a Potato Famine industry they shouldn't have spent their time knocking back Jameson boilermakers. They should have gone to School, worked hard, and bought up the organs of mass media.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    Let’s say there were a Potato Famine Museum in DC. How would that help the average Irish American? How do you think the Holocaust Museum helps the average Jewish American?

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Dave Pinsen

    Your point is well taken. I don't think either is particularly helpful. Fwiw , I think the Holocaust 'industry' started out as a relatively genuine ,if neurotic, attempt at ensuring the security of diaspora Jewry. If only we publicize these matters sufficiently we can prevent it from ever happening again. It was the confluence of various factors - the extraordinary financial success of the Survivor generation, the cultural emergence of a victimhood arms race, the large sums of poorly controlled Claims Conference funds, etc. etc- that turned it into something of a grifter's paradise.
    That said, even in its infant form it was poorly conceived. If there is anything more pathetic than the winning generals of the last war trying to fight the new war as the last war, it's the losing generals doing the same. One ends up with the cultural/intellectual Maginot line that is the Holocaust industry.

  160. @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    I am completely opposed to a military draft, but if there ever is one again it god-damned better include women.
    As I've said before, if anyone - I don't care who it is - says in my presence that women shouldn't be in combat because their lives are too precious, the obvious corollary of which is that men are expendable, it will take every last bit of my self control not to physically assault that person. And it may not be enough.

    Note to the autistics on this site who disagree: go die in a fire.

    Replies: @NickG, @Reg Cæsar, @education realist, @Joe S.Walker, @animalogic

    I agree.
    Imagine the response to something like female soldier corpses lapping at the Tarawa shoreline….

  161. @Buffalo Joe
    In today's news vernacular....'Pearl Harbor, some guys did some thing, but it was too long ago.' Had the Japs bombed black wall street, it would still be page one.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Voltarde, @reactionry

    LOL – nice appropriation of Ilhan Omar’s 9/11 “did some thing[s]” muttering.
    In that spirit one could also describe Pearl Harbor/Dec. 7 as a “senseless tragedy.” Gawd knows how many times I’ve done an eye roll because of a misuse of the word “senseless” and Reg Caesar’s recent post along those lines was good to read. “Tragedy” is as well grotesquely out of place here and better used in the context of say, an earthquake.
    A couple days or so ago a lifelong affliction with procrastination prevented posting in a similar vein on the Emmett Till Thread……

    [MORE]

    Emmett Till was a victim of senseless gun violence.
    His death was a senseless tragedy.
    And so on.
    The following link provides the most loathsome mangling of language I’ve run across lately. I was able to find it again for posting by entering “seize” into a search. I’m not sure if Steve Sailer has at some point seized on the word “seize,” but he definitely pounced on the word “pounced” not too long ago.

    https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2021/11/23/after-waukesha-christmas-parade-massacre-trying-to-make-sense-of-senseless-violence/

    BTW I’m reasonably certain no offense was taken if you stumbled across my earlier silly stringing of Admiral Rachel Levine/Actor Ted Levine aka Jame Gumb and Buffalo Bill (who, unlike Buffalo Joe, “skins his humps”)
    Reply Reply All Forward

  162. @Dave Pinsen
    @Jack D


    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people.
     
    The Civil War is beyond living memory, and we just added “Juneteenth” as a national holiday this year.

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong, @Colin Wright

    ‘The Civil War is beyond living memory, and we just added “Juneteenth” as a national holiday this year.’

    Yes — but Juneteenth is a gesture of submission. It serves a purpose.

  163. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    The point is to not remind why it was then with China against Japan, and now it's the other way around.

    CCP's narrative is that the Japanese are not sorry for nuffin for starting the war, they are only sorry for losing.


    Can’t believe these two events are happening at the same time. What it tells? pic.twitter.com/de5VCTiluI— Chen Weihua (陈卫华) (@chenweihua) December 7, 2021
     
    This is true to an extent--
    https://imgur.com/2mZYi1m

    Whereas from Japan's perspective, they've always had less to fear from faraway United States, than an Asian continental superpower, PRC, USSR, Mongol Empire.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Chrisnonymous, @SteveRogers42, @John Derbyshire, @The Wild Geese Howard, @anono

    this is from Babylon Bee, Dec. 6, 1941?

  164. @Anonymous
    FDR knew

    Replies: @anono

    Yes.

  165. @Zero Philosopher
    The big story that is not told is how the U.S Dollar is on the verge of collapse, how the National Debt is 130% the size of the entire GDP, and how the U.S Federal Government has printed nearly $20 trillion in bills, assets, bonds and liabilities to foreign investors over the past 20 months(a trillion per month, roughly) since COVID hit.

    America's economic situation was *castastrophic* before COVID even hit. Because of the pandemic, over the past 1.5 year the government literally bought everyone's debt while sending them checks, printed $10 trillion exta in QE(quantitative easing,ie inflation), while, at the same time, real GDP shrank by 20% and revenue by 25%. To make matters worse, America got in a pissing match with China over Taiwan, which led the surgent superpower to inflict heavy penalties on U.S held businesses and Chinese nationals withdrew investments from U.S assets.

    What is happenning now is the culmination of more than 40 years of economic mismanegement and *both* right-wingers and left-wingers are to blame. It was Ronnie Reagan, worshipped by right-wing conservatives as a god, who turned the U.S.A from the World's biggest creditor nation to the World's biggest debtor nation, with his multi-trillion military budgets to bankrupt the U.S.S.R. To make matters worse, and to further weaken the U.S.S.R, Ronnie bought the support of Third World nations by essentially lowering American trade tariffs to zero to allow those countries to have huge trade superavits with America. So U.S companies went there where labor is cheaper, leading to the destruction of American Industry. The "rust belt" is as much to blame on Ronnie as on anyone else. He *dramatically* accelerated the de-instrialization of America that had started in the late 60's, early 70's. Then, his successor, Bush Senior, decided to start foreign wars that cost hundreds of billions of Dollars to protect the profits of oil companies that are not even headquartered in America, don't pay taxes to America, and still price gauge their oil to American consumers. Then, the left-winger, Bill The Cad followed, with his endless social programs fueled by taxes from the non-existent .com emerging internet economy of the 90's. By 1996, it was obvious that it was a bubble and phony, but Bill The Cad cared far more about reelection than the country, so he made Greenspan buy the failed assets from the failed internet companies. To his credit, Geroge Junior was going to do the right thing and let the bubble burst, but then 9/11 happened and he thought that a social revolution might happen if he let the economy crash after that national trauma. So the FED once again printed more money and re-inflated the bubble. Also, Bush Junior wanted to give it to Daddy by finishing the job that Daddy couldn't(killing Saddam), so he needed another hundred or two billion bucks for his desert advanture. At the same time, the Federally-subsidized home ownership program started in the early90's by Clinton culminates in the catastrophic 2008 crash. So the left-winger Obama takes office, and decides that the progrma that led to the worst economic crash since 1929 was a good idea, and that everyone in America, even people without jobs, should own a house, so he amplifies the already huge home ownership program of the Federal Government, and tells banks that they can make house loans to anyone, no matter what. So now the government assurance of the loans continues, except as long-term collaterals. By 2016, the bubble was by far the biggest in U.S history, no wonder since it was a bubble that started in the internet.com bubble of the 90's, and then combined with the housing bubble, and then with the U.S treasuries and then the fiscal stimulus bubble of the 2010's. So COVID hit, and 20 years of 3 bubbles combined with the biggest stimulus package in the U.S history, at some $20 trillion total.

    To summarize: huge trade deficits for 40 years, combined with a 40 years gigantic government spending spree, combined with not one, not two, but 3 financial bubbles over 25 years all inflated by the monetary policies of the FED that were not allowed to burst but instead combined with each other, followed by $20 trillion spending in less than 2 years due to the pandemic. And all that process happening while the country de-industrialized and became more and more dependent on imports.

    It is important to point out that *both* conservative right-wingers and liberal leftists are to blame fcor this. Both parties have bankrupted the government, and both parties have re-inflated bubbles that should have crahsed for no other reason than to assure their re-elections. The only difference is where the parties spend money. Right-wing conservatives spend in in the military-industrial complex(Eisenhower's warning notwithstanding), while liberals spend it on social programs and government handouts. But they *both* put America in this dire mess.

    I don't think Americans fully understand just how dire America's economic situation is. The U.S is broke as a competitive economy, and it is *beyond* broke at the governmental level. Not only doesd the U.S National Debt appraches $30 trillion, while the economy is only $22 trillion in size, it is actually worse than that. The actual size of the economy is actually closer to $15 trillion, because of hos massively infflated the financial sector is. The U.S has been able to run trade deficits of $800 billion a year for 40 years in a row because the World was willing to pay for it, since th U.S holds the World's Reserve Currency. Not anymore.

    What is about to happen is that there will be a run on the U.S Dollar. Not similar to what happened in 1971 when America was struggling to finance it's efforts in Vietnam and no longer had enough gold to back up it's reserves, a problem that was "solved" by Nixon exiting the gold standard. No, this is a run on the Dollar where the Dollar will be as good as toilet paper. Actually, toilet paper is better since it actually serves a function!

    Some economists are proposing a new term for what is about to come: "tankflation"(tanking + inflation), which means basically a depression where, at the same time, money loses it's values. Not really a stagflation, but something even worse. No, not as bad as the Weimar Republic. WORSE. Because during the Weimar Republic, as much as currency became worhtless, the German industry and economy were actually slowly recovering from WW1.

    Americans don't really understand just how bad it is what is coming. It is basically the end of the U.S as a World economic power, and the end of the Dollar as the World's fiat currency.

    First, the purchasing power of your money will decrease to a quarter of what it is today. But, at the same time, everything that you purchase will cost more, as America makes nothing in 2021 and imports everything, and you'll have to actually purchase their currency in order to purchase their products, instead of just printing Dollars like we used to. Secondly, not backed by foreign money, the U.S Government will have to default on all internal payments. First, all the Federal bureaucracy will not receive their salaries, including salaries you definitely want to pay, like those of the military. Then, state governments as their revenues plummet from collapsed sales taxes(no one wll be able to afford anything, so no sales tax to local governemnts), the police, fire fighters, etc, will go without salary. As no one accepts Dollars, and the costs of doing business in Dollars becomes even greater, the few remaining American industry will leave the country despite American labor now being so cheap, further tanking the economy. In the end, the only thing the U.S will have left to negotiate some power and position in the World will be it's nukes. That is, a very similar situation to Russia's in 1991. Something along the lines of telling the World:"Gives us something, or we might nuke a couple of your cites, retaliations be damned, because otherwise we will starve, so we got nothint to lose. You do."

    No, this will not be like the 1929 crash and the depression of the 20's. It will be something *significantly* worse. Oh, U.S.A, how the mighty have fallen!

    When you add this to the current polarization of the U.S, with the Right being full or racists and the Left full of "woke" delusionalk morons, the country might actuallty not survive this. It would take a tyrant-titan with absolute control of the military to declare martial law Roman-style to save the country from utter chaos and collapse, and I cannot imagine Ameircans accepting a tyrant-titan figure . So this is it.

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong, @Rob, @74v56ruthiyj

    Insert MORE Tag

  166. Now we just get the Tones & Chirps of Impending Doom.

  167. @Dave Pinsen
    @kaganovitch

    Let's say there were a Potato Famine Museum in DC. How would that help the average Irish American? How do you think the Holocaust Museum helps the average Jewish American?

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    Your point is well taken. I don’t think either is particularly helpful. Fwiw , I think the Holocaust ‘industry’ started out as a relatively genuine ,if neurotic, attempt at ensuring the security of diaspora Jewry. If only we publicize these matters sufficiently we can prevent it from ever happening again. It was the confluence of various factors – the extraordinary financial success of the Survivor generation, the cultural emergence of a victimhood arms race, the large sums of poorly controlled Claims Conference funds, etc. etc- that turned it into something of a grifter’s paradise.
    That said, even in its infant form it was poorly conceived. If there is anything more pathetic than the winning generals of the last war trying to fight the new war as the last war, it’s the losing generals doing the same. One ends up with the cultural/intellectual Maginot line that is the Holocaust industry.

  168. @Houston 1992
    @PiltdownMan

    Thanks , I did not appreciate just how small the Japanese automondustry was pre 1950…… Toyota got much momentum from Korean War orders from the Pentagon

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    ‘automondustry’ is an excellent coinage. Thanks.

  169. @NickG
    @prosa123

    Steady on old chap, pour yourself a stiff one and settle down to a panic.

    Replies: @Tony massey

    That’s a 5 star reply NickG. I’m using that one. Settle down to a panic huh.
    Nice

  170. @Alfa158
    @prosa123

    Autistics like yourself will be shocked to hear the following:
    - no military in the world assigns women to front line combat duty, and for good reason.
    - the current and proposed ACFT are skewed to help women, and yet only 10% of women in the US military met the required fitness levels for combat, even after training for the tests. Even including non-combat roles, only 30% passed.
    -I go to a commercial gym at least three times a week. Those “ultrafit hardbodied” women are less than a few percent of the clientele. I suspect your familiarity with gyms is limited to the commercials on TV where every woman is an “ultrafit hardbody” showing men how to bench 350. Many of the non-fictional UH will probably still flunk a test which requires them to meet the brute strength requirements for combat. An 80 pound crate of mortar shells that has to be humped to the top of a hill isn’t going to pro-rate itself to a lower mass just because a woman is trying to carry it.

    As far as I’m concerned, the few women who can actually meet exactly the same standards as men are perfectly welcome to join combat squads.( Good luck, and better them than me, I was in the Air Force ).But that is not what this is about. Women want to squeeze into any kind of nominally combat position because that helps them get promoted into higher ranks faster.

    Replies: @Tony massey, @Jim Don Bob

    For what it’s worth women aren’t allowed Togo moar than 3 days without hygeine, that is, soap and hot water.
    It is recommended that men go no moar than 17 days without hygeine but that recommendation is not, so far as i am aware, followed.
    Female soldiers never ever ever go moar than 3 days altho I’m sure one will pipe up and say they did but then in that case your commander broke a hard rule that, so far as i know, is never broken.
    Doesn’t matter how dirty the men get.
    But hygeine…yeh it’s a real thing for a female soldier in the field without access to ya know basic hygeine.

    Women and seamen shouldn’t mix. Makes the fags jealous and then you get vincennes.
    N seriously a fag didn’t blow up the vincennes. J/k.
    No but for real the navy are a buncha fags. Look at that admiral. Whew

  171. @James Braxton
    How would America be different today if instead of plunging into all out world war, we had responded in kind to Japan's attack and called it a day?

    Replies: @anon, @Flip, @Muggles

    Hitler declared war on America a few days later on December 11.

    • Replies: @James Braxton
    @Flip

    Just because you get invited to a party doesn't mean you have to accept the invitation.

  172. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    There is nothing illegal about an embargo.
     
    No, but when you are supplying matériel to the other side, it erodes your claim of being a non-belligerent, and destroys any claim of neutrality. The question is not whether what we did was "illegal", but what Japan did. Did our actions authorize an attack?

    Replies: @Marquis, @Colin Wright

    Japan one it was wrong; they debated it. You declare war before you attack a country.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Marquis


    You declare war before you attack a country.
     
    We seem to have forgotten that point ourselves. So we forfeit that argument.
  173. @Buffalo Joe
    For what it is worth...years ago I was the foreman (pusher was the term we used) of a crew of Ironworkers repairing a blast furnace. I was probably 20 or 21 years old. In my crew I had a guy who had been the captain of a B-17 in Europe and a guy who flew a plane from a carrier deck in the Pacific. Now just regular joes. My mother signed her brother into the Navy on his 16th birthday, this to keep him from joining the Marines. I can't remember what I did on my 16th birthday, almost sixty years ago, but I bet my uncle never forgot his. He landed in North Africa and Anzio as part of naval assault forces. Boys becoming men over night. God bless them all.

    Replies: @JMcG

    Hi Joe – I had a similar experience. When I was a new apprentice, one of the older foremen had been a Bosun’s Mate on the USS Franklin, CV-13. He joined up right after Pearl Harbor. He skipped breakfast the morning his ship was bombed, probably saving his life. He spent much of the day in a weapons magazine, tying ropes to aerial rockets so they could be hauled up and thrown overboard while the fires raged all around. He still spent some of his nights driving aimlessly around town so he could stay awake and not have nightmares as late as the year 2000.
    Another, recently retired foreman had joined the RCAF to get in the war before Pearl Harbor. He flew there and then got into the AAF later. He flew unarmed P38s doing bomb damage assessment over Northern Europe. Another was a Marine in the first wave that landed on Guadalcanal.
    I met all those guys around 1989 and went crazy when I found out what they had done. I couldn’t get enough of talking to them. There wasn’t another young guy who had any interest at all, even back then.
    May they Rest In Peace. Have a great Christmas, Joe.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @JMcG

    JMcG, this is one of the best replies I have ever received. Those were great men. God rest their souls and you stay safe.

  174. @Moses
    @American Citizen

    I've said it before and I'll say it again -- Non-Whites do not care one iota for White American history. Not one bit.

    It's not their history. Why should they care about it?

    Replies: @JMcG, @Jack D, @Richard B

    I’ve spent some time at the Gettysburg Battlefield. I’ve never seen an adult black there. Some kids on field trips, maybe, but never an adult or family. You’re right, they couldn’t care less.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @JMcG

    https://twitter.com/amber_athey/status/1467929225097318407?s=21

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

  175. @Buffalo Joe
    @Jack D

    Jack, I like what you write, but the front page is the front page, so it counts. WWII shaped my parents' generation in ways that we can't imagine. My mother had her husband, two brothers-in-law and three brothers all overseas for some of the best years of their lives. No one knew about PTSD back then, but those guys, my dad and uncles, were all affected in some way. Till's death is the spoon that stirs the shit. Their way of saying, see, Whites never change...Till to Floyd. Stay safe buddy.

    Replies: @Jake Barnes, @GeologyAnonMk3

    Are we all forgetting that Louis Till was as much a victim of the War as anyone?

    • LOL: JMcG
    • Troll: Hibernian
  176. @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    The US is not some isolated tribe perpetually on the brink of extinction, for which the loss of even a few women could spell demographic disaster. If half of the US combat deaths in Vietnam or even World War II had been women the effects on the nation's long-term demographic growth would have been minimal and completely gone in a generation.

    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are "too delicate" for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that's a different issue). You'll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Finally, some Beta losers think that infantilizing and patronizing women is a surefire way to get magnificent women to drop their panties for them. Newsflash: it doesn't work.

    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj, @Wilkey, @R.G. Camara, @Alfa158, @Kratoklastes, @Hibernian, @David Davenport, @Mike Tre, @nebulafox, @Anonymous

    You’ll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Do they have plenty of tattoos, on their thighs as well as arms and shoulders??

  177. They should hook a strong cable on somebody, hand him a powerful flashlight and send him deep down into the hull of the USS Arizona to see what’s there. There would be no bodies remaining, no need to worry about disturbing the dead, but it would be a treasure of nostalgic antiques and artifacts dating to the 1930s, 40s. Like a trip back in time. Don’t disturb anything but take pictures with a water proof camera.

  178. @Moses
    @Jack D

    Lol. Indulge me in a little thought exercise, courtesy Jack.


    TBH, the Holocaust happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Germany is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, Russia, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as…. the death of Emmett Till.
     
    Pretty sure Jack would call the above "anti-semitic". Amirite Jack?

    I guess some contemporaneous historical events are more ancient history than others, if you know what I mean.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Richard B

    Most (at least older) Americans know that Pearl Harbor day is Dec. 7. Can you (without looking it up) tell me the date of Yom HaShoah (Holocaust Remembrance Day)? Is that day usually mentioned on the front page of the NY Times?

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Jack D

    In a large fraction of American schools, every day is Holocaust Remembrance Day. If not that, then certainly every month is Holocaust Remembrance Month. My kids have all attended various flavors of Catholic School. Every one of them had Anne Frank’s Diary assigned as required reading. 75% of them had Wiesel’s Night assigned.

    , @Colin Wright
    @Jack D

    'Most (at least older) Americans know that Pearl Harbor day is Dec. 7. Can you (without looking it up) tell me the date of Yom HaShoah (Holocaust Remembrance Day)? Is that day usually mentioned on the front page of the NY Times?'

    December 7th is the anniversary of an actual event. 'Holocaust Remembrance Day' is an invention dreamed up by what might best be described as Holocaust Boosters.

    , @Rex Little
    @Jack D


    Most (at least older) Americans know that Pearl Harbor day is Dec. 7. Can you (without looking it up) tell me the date of Yom HaShoah (Holocaust Remembrance Day)?
     
    I didn't even know there was a Holocaust Remembrance Day--and I'm Jewish.
  179. December 1987,

    Thomas Fleming: who leaked the war monger FDR’s war plans?

    https://www.americanheritage.com/big-leak

    Was it FDR himself?

  180. @Jack D
    @Kratoklastes

    There was no blockade. Any other country willing to do so could supply Japan. There was an embargo, meaning that we wouldn't do so any more. There is nothing illegal about an embargo.

    The embargo came only after Japan had taken a series of agressive steps including allying with Nazi Germany, securing neutrality from Stalin and occupying Indochina, which put it at the doorstep of the Phillipines. Japan had not yet declared war against the US but they were clearly preparing the battlefield and we would have been idiots to sell them the rope that they needed to hang us with (in Lenin's words).

    At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis claimed that they were just following orders. At Jussie Smollett's trial, he claimed that he was attacked and had nothing to do with setting it up. You can claim all you want but a lie is still a lie.

    Replies: @dimples, @Reg Cæsar, @Clifford Brown, @John Regan, @Sparkon

    There was no blockade. Any other country willing to do so could supply Japan. There was an embargo, meaning that we wouldn’t do so any more. There is nothing illegal about an embargo.

    It’s true that waging sneaky economic war was not illegal in 1941. But neither was waging an honest war by military means. Only Tojo got hanged for that anyway because our rulers don’t care about morality or law except to use them as another club to beat down anyone who resists them.

    FDR colluded with the British (and the Dutch puppet government in their hands) to cut off all oil supplies for Japan. There literally was no one else who could supply them. He’d made sure of it. Don’t take my word for it but do read the book “Bankrupting the Enemy” which has already been mentioned in this thread.

    This while he was at the same time supplying weapons and personnel (the “Flying Tigers”) to Japan’s enemy China. Hmmm.

    Here is a nice little article published only days ago with a good list of suggestions for further reading for anyone who’s interested. The author’s New Left perspective has some blind spots here and there but he is pretty much on the right track:

    https://www.greanvillepost.com/2021/12/06/pearl-harbor-a-surprise-attack/

    In short: The choice the bad guys gave to the Japanese in 1941 was: Become a colony or die. Even though they lost and became a colony anyway I’m glad for their sake that they at least chose to fight for their future before submitting.

    The embargo came only after Japan had taken a series of agressive steps including allying with Nazi Germany, securing neutrality from Stalin and occupying Indochina, which put it at the doorstep of the Phillipines. Japan had not yet declared war against the US but they were clearly preparing the battlefield and we would have been idiots to sell them the rope that they needed to hang us with (in Lenin’s words).

    In the later half of 1941 FDR was placing heavy bombers in the Philippines and gloating with his fellow war criminals Stimson and Morgenthau about how they’d be able to firebomb Tokyo to cinders once they were in place. If we are using some preemptive war argument Japan had far more justice on its side on this angle too.

    Japan of course, was in no possible way threatening the continental United States.

    See especially the book on the list, “Preventive Strike” by Alan Armstrong. The author is an anti Japanese triumphalist who thinks a sneak attack on Japan would have been a good thing and laments that Japan got the drop on the bombers in the Philippines first. But his facts are real enough.

    At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis claimed that they were just following orders. At Jussie Smollett’s trial, he claimed that he was attacked and had nothing to do with setting it up. You can claim all you want but a lie is still a lie.

    A lie is a lie. But the liars in 1941 were FDR and his minions. And the liars today are the people who defend them.

    • Replies: @David Davenport
    @John Regan

    FDR colluded with the British (and the Dutch puppet government in their hands) to cut off all oil supplies for Japan. There literally was no one else who could supply them. He’d made sure of it. Don’t take my word for it but do read the book “Bankrupting the Enemy” which has already been mentioned in this thread.

    This while he was at the same time supplying weapons and personnel (the “Flying Tigers”) to Japan’s enemy China. Hmmm.


    So what?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  181. @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    The US is not some isolated tribe perpetually on the brink of extinction, for which the loss of even a few women could spell demographic disaster. If half of the US combat deaths in Vietnam or even World War II had been women the effects on the nation's long-term demographic growth would have been minimal and completely gone in a generation.

    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are "too delicate" for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that's a different issue). You'll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Finally, some Beta losers think that infantilizing and patronizing women is a surefire way to get magnificent women to drop their panties for them. Newsflash: it doesn't work.

    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj, @Wilkey, @R.G. Camara, @Alfa158, @Kratoklastes, @Hibernian, @David Davenport, @Mike Tre, @nebulafox, @Anonymous

    My theory is that you proscribe to yourself a fairly complex combination of mind altering narcotics on a daily basis.

  182. @kaganovitch
    @epebble

    Somebody will be writing how wrong the commenters were in 2021.

    What language will they be writing that in?

    Replies: @epebble

    English. The demographics and culture in 2101 will be as different as 2021’s is from 1941’s. But official language will remain English. Not even the Hispanics, the largest linguistic group, are interested in a bilingual nation. They just want to be left alone to use the language among themselves. They opposed Spanish only schooling for their kids in California.

  183. @Moses
    @American Citizen

    I've said it before and I'll say it again -- Non-Whites do not care one iota for White American history. Not one bit.

    It's not their history. Why should they care about it?

    Replies: @JMcG, @Jack D, @Richard B

    It’s in the news today that the statue of Robert E. Lee from Charlottesville (the one that was the subject of the “Unite the Right” rally) is going to be melted down and made into a new piece of public art by an African American heritage center.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/07/charlottesville-robert-e-lee-statue-melted

    What are the chances that the “new art” will be a statue of a black person? 100%? 110%?

    At first these statues were just going to be “relocated” (to the east, perhaps?), because “liberals” had qualms about destroying works of art. Remove them from a place of honor, sure, but put them somewhere else where they could be viewed in context as a product of their times. Maybe there would be a explanatory sign next to the statue informing us about the racist “Lost Cause” myth, telling us the “proper” way to think about it as a symbol of white privilege, yada, yada.

    But now we are literally in the iconoclastic phase of the Revolution. As you say, blacks don’t really care for any history except for their own (not that whites ever cared much about black history either) and now that they are in charge they are going to literally remake history in their own image. We don’t need no stinkin’ explanatory signs, just melt that cracker.

    See, you boil the frog gradually. At first you are only removing the statue. Then you are melting it into unspecified “new art”. Only in step 3 do you announce that it is going to be a statue of a Nat Turner or Toussaint Louverture. Or maybe Malcolm X since most blacks can’t spell Toussaint Louverture.

    As Heine (almost) said, “Wherever they melt statues, in the end they will also melt human beings.”

    • Agree: JMcG, Alden
    • Replies: @rebel yell
    @Jack D

    The destruction of the Lee statue is only possible because Lee has no defenders. There just aren't any southern whites left who care, or only a few. I care because I like history and because I take a complex view of history and a complex view of human morality. But none of my relatives in the south would care about this at all. It has nothing to do with shopping, home furnishings, charming vacation locales, or the SEC.
    Read the magazine Southern Living - no place for Lee there.

    , @Moses
    @Jack D


    As you say, blacks don’t really care for any history except for their own (not that whites ever cared much about black history either)
     
    Yes, that was my point. Each race cares primarily about its own history, far less so history of other races. Totally normal and natural, like caring about your own family history more than the family down the street.

    Asians, Subcons, Middle Easterners and Blacks just don't care about White American history. As far as they're concerned, American history started only when their own group arrived in America.

    We Jews a good example of that. For us, American History started with Emma Lazarus and the huddled masses. Again, totally normal and natural. None of the Founders was a Jew. We didn't arrive in numbers before the late 1800s.

    Melting down the Lee statue and recasting it into some kind of Black icon has tremendous symbolic power. The point is humiliation, subjugation and, yes I daresay, replacement.

  184. @Zero Philosopher
    The big story that is not told is how the U.S Dollar is on the verge of collapse, how the National Debt is 130% the size of the entire GDP, and how the U.S Federal Government has printed nearly $20 trillion in bills, assets, bonds and liabilities to foreign investors over the past 20 months(a trillion per month, roughly) since COVID hit.

    America's economic situation was *castastrophic* before COVID even hit. Because of the pandemic, over the past 1.5 year the government literally bought everyone's debt while sending them checks, printed $10 trillion exta in QE(quantitative easing,ie inflation), while, at the same time, real GDP shrank by 20% and revenue by 25%. To make matters worse, America got in a pissing match with China over Taiwan, which led the surgent superpower to inflict heavy penalties on U.S held businesses and Chinese nationals withdrew investments from U.S assets.

    What is happenning now is the culmination of more than 40 years of economic mismanegement and *both* right-wingers and left-wingers are to blame. It was Ronnie Reagan, worshipped by right-wing conservatives as a god, who turned the U.S.A from the World's biggest creditor nation to the World's biggest debtor nation, with his multi-trillion military budgets to bankrupt the U.S.S.R. To make matters worse, and to further weaken the U.S.S.R, Ronnie bought the support of Third World nations by essentially lowering American trade tariffs to zero to allow those countries to have huge trade superavits with America. So U.S companies went there where labor is cheaper, leading to the destruction of American Industry. The "rust belt" is as much to blame on Ronnie as on anyone else. He *dramatically* accelerated the de-instrialization of America that had started in the late 60's, early 70's. Then, his successor, Bush Senior, decided to start foreign wars that cost hundreds of billions of Dollars to protect the profits of oil companies that are not even headquartered in America, don't pay taxes to America, and still price gauge their oil to American consumers. Then, the left-winger, Bill The Cad followed, with his endless social programs fueled by taxes from the non-existent .com emerging internet economy of the 90's. By 1996, it was obvious that it was a bubble and phony, but Bill The Cad cared far more about reelection than the country, so he made Greenspan buy the failed assets from the failed internet companies. To his credit, Geroge Junior was going to do the right thing and let the bubble burst, but then 9/11 happened and he thought that a social revolution might happen if he let the economy crash after that national trauma. So the FED once again printed more money and re-inflated the bubble. Also, Bush Junior wanted to give it to Daddy by finishing the job that Daddy couldn't(killing Saddam), so he needed another hundred or two billion bucks for his desert advanture. At the same time, the Federally-subsidized home ownership program started in the early90's by Clinton culminates in the catastrophic 2008 crash. So the left-winger Obama takes office, and decides that the progrma that led to the worst economic crash since 1929 was a good idea, and that everyone in America, even people without jobs, should own a house, so he amplifies the already huge home ownership program of the Federal Government, and tells banks that they can make house loans to anyone, no matter what. So now the government assurance of the loans continues, except as long-term collaterals. By 2016, the bubble was by far the biggest in U.S history, no wonder since it was a bubble that started in the internet.com bubble of the 90's, and then combined with the housing bubble, and then with the U.S treasuries and then the fiscal stimulus bubble of the 2010's. So COVID hit, and 20 years of 3 bubbles combined with the biggest stimulus package in the U.S history, at some $20 trillion total.

    To summarize: huge trade deficits for 40 years, combined with a 40 years gigantic government spending spree, combined with not one, not two, but 3 financial bubbles over 25 years all inflated by the monetary policies of the FED that were not allowed to burst but instead combined with each other, followed by $20 trillion spending in less than 2 years due to the pandemic. And all that process happening while the country de-industrialized and became more and more dependent on imports.

    It is important to point out that *both* conservative right-wingers and liberal leftists are to blame fcor this. Both parties have bankrupted the government, and both parties have re-inflated bubbles that should have crahsed for no other reason than to assure their re-elections. The only difference is where the parties spend money. Right-wing conservatives spend in in the military-industrial complex(Eisenhower's warning notwithstanding), while liberals spend it on social programs and government handouts. But they *both* put America in this dire mess.

    I don't think Americans fully understand just how dire America's economic situation is. The U.S is broke as a competitive economy, and it is *beyond* broke at the governmental level. Not only doesd the U.S National Debt appraches $30 trillion, while the economy is only $22 trillion in size, it is actually worse than that. The actual size of the economy is actually closer to $15 trillion, because of hos massively infflated the financial sector is. The U.S has been able to run trade deficits of $800 billion a year for 40 years in a row because the World was willing to pay for it, since th U.S holds the World's Reserve Currency. Not anymore.

    What is about to happen is that there will be a run on the U.S Dollar. Not similar to what happened in 1971 when America was struggling to finance it's efforts in Vietnam and no longer had enough gold to back up it's reserves, a problem that was "solved" by Nixon exiting the gold standard. No, this is a run on the Dollar where the Dollar will be as good as toilet paper. Actually, toilet paper is better since it actually serves a function!

    Some economists are proposing a new term for what is about to come: "tankflation"(tanking + inflation), which means basically a depression where, at the same time, money loses it's values. Not really a stagflation, but something even worse. No, not as bad as the Weimar Republic. WORSE. Because during the Weimar Republic, as much as currency became worhtless, the German industry and economy were actually slowly recovering from WW1.

    Americans don't really understand just how bad it is what is coming. It is basically the end of the U.S as a World economic power, and the end of the Dollar as the World's fiat currency.

    First, the purchasing power of your money will decrease to a quarter of what it is today. But, at the same time, everything that you purchase will cost more, as America makes nothing in 2021 and imports everything, and you'll have to actually purchase their currency in order to purchase their products, instead of just printing Dollars like we used to. Secondly, not backed by foreign money, the U.S Government will have to default on all internal payments. First, all the Federal bureaucracy will not receive their salaries, including salaries you definitely want to pay, like those of the military. Then, state governments as their revenues plummet from collapsed sales taxes(no one wll be able to afford anything, so no sales tax to local governemnts), the police, fire fighters, etc, will go without salary. As no one accepts Dollars, and the costs of doing business in Dollars becomes even greater, the few remaining American industry will leave the country despite American labor now being so cheap, further tanking the economy. In the end, the only thing the U.S will have left to negotiate some power and position in the World will be it's nukes. That is, a very similar situation to Russia's in 1991. Something along the lines of telling the World:"Gives us something, or we might nuke a couple of your cites, retaliations be damned, because otherwise we will starve, so we got nothint to lose. You do."

    No, this will not be like the 1929 crash and the depression of the 20's. It will be something *significantly* worse. Oh, U.S.A, how the mighty have fallen!

    When you add this to the current polarization of the U.S, with the Right being full or racists and the Left full of "woke" delusionalk morons, the country might actuallty not survive this. It would take a tyrant-titan with absolute control of the military to declare martial law Roman-style to save the country from utter chaos and collapse, and I cannot imagine Ameircans accepting a tyrant-titan figure . So this is it.

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong, @Rob, @74v56ruthiyj

    It is very refreshing to read someone who realizes that Reagan murdered America. But on the other hand, “we really showed those Ruskies!”

    I hope the crash is not as awful as it probably will be. I really fear the worth-something elite, the scientists and engineers are not so globalist that they jump ship.

    Surely our allies will ve willing to help! Would Japan send advisors to help us build American industry — a few generations of new manufacturing tech happened in Asia but not here, so there will be no “rebuilding” industry. The old tool and dye men will be dead or senile. The production engineers might all be in Asia.

    After the Soviet Union ended, Russia was still Russian. America has a huge number of foreigners. Lots will go home, taking the expertise and experience American businesses invested in them instead of Americans. Will even the Mexican and Central American helot class stay? I weep for all the people who will lose their made.

    Maybe one bright spot will be that the financial sector will have lost its luster? Perhaps it will reconstitute into what it was supposed to do, allocating capital for the most productive uses.

    Truly, it could put Israel in a bad spot. A fact that concerns me greatly.

  185. @Reg Cæsar
    @Dan Hayes


    Polo Grounds announcements at a football Giants game
     
    They were hosting the Brooklyn Dodgers.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

    Thanks. Until now I had not known that there ever was a “Brooklyn Dodgers” professional football team!

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Dan Hayes

    It goes to show that pro football was a minor-league sport until the late 50's, with the Big 3 being baseball, boxing, and horse racing. The Dodgers played in the NFL 1930-1945, at which point they left to join the AAFC, the league that hosted the Cleveland Browns.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Dan Hayes


    Until now I had not known that there ever was a “Brooklyn Dodgers” professional football team!
     
    There were also the New York Yankees and Boston Braves, the latter becoming the Redskins upon moving from Braves Field to Fenway. The Steelers were the Pirates their first season.

    Toronto's AAA baseball team was the Maple Leafs.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

  186. @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar


    Are you some kind of “American exceptionalist” who believes the rules don’t apply to us?
     
    Who is “us“? I thought you didn’t identify with the other white people or other Americans.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Who is “us“? I thought you didn’t identify with the other white people or other Americans.

    It’s easier to identify with the Swiss, the Austrians, the Danes, and the Finns, who draft only men, than with the Swedes and the Norwegians, who draft women, and the only countries to do so equally.

    The active draft survived a referendum in 2013: Austrians vote to keep compulsory military service

    This was, as in Switzerland, Sweden, and Finland, to ensure neutrality. In the US, it’s the opposite. The active draft destroys our neutrality.

    To get back on-topic, Pearl Harbor didn’t lead to the draft. The draft led to Pearl Harbor.

    • Thanks: JMcG
  187. @Ralph L
    @Mr. Anon

    BBC History magazine, the People of mostly British history, ran a series of personal histories of WWI participants, famous and not, every month 2014-18, plus big articles at the centenary of major battles. While taking a crap this evening, I read in a 2019 issue about a Russian-Austro-Hungarian battle early in the war.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    While taking a crap this evening, I read…

    Are you trying to make us Ralph, too?

  188. @mike99588
    @Reg Cæsar

    The US and Japan were on a collision course by 1900 as wannabe hegemons.
    Japan occupied Taiwan in 1895 and the US occupied the Philippines in 1898.
    The US "brokered" the 1904 Russian - Japanese peace treaty, not through idle talk.
    Roosevelts on both ends of the pitch...

    USNA graduates were made aware of these geopolitics for decades before.
    Robert Heinlein mentions it too.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    USNA graduates were made aware of these geopolitics for decades before.

    Jimmy Carter was at Annapolis during the war. As a Georgian, he could vote in 1944, at age 20. Has anyone read his memoirs? Did he do so?

  189. @Jack D
    @Moses

    Most (at least older) Americans know that Pearl Harbor day is Dec. 7. Can you (without looking it up) tell me the date of Yom HaShoah (Holocaust Remembrance Day)? Is that day usually mentioned on the front page of the NY Times?

    Replies: @JMcG, @Colin Wright, @Rex Little

    In a large fraction of American schools, every day is Holocaust Remembrance Day. If not that, then certainly every month is Holocaust Remembrance Month. My kids have all attended various flavors of Catholic School. Every one of them had Anne Frank’s Diary assigned as required reading. 75% of them had Wiesel’s Night assigned.

  190. @obwandiyag
    @Jack D

    WWII is a massive, earth-shaking world-transforming cataclysm of proportions never seen before in human history, a war that we are still living through to this day in a thousand concrete ways.

    So your argument is that only old people were alive when the official dates of the war occurred.

    Not feeble or anything. Childish, more like. Children don't know the value of anything.

    Replies: @Old Prude

    Currently listening to Dan Carlin’s hard core history, covering the Pacific in early ’45: Horror of ground combat on Okinawa, and the fire bombing of Tokyo. The match was Pearl Harbor. The lesson is don’t ever start an industrial war. The horrors of ’45 will be quaint compared to what could be done today.

    Pearl Harbor should be remembered by the U.S. at this point only as a reminder that we should never start another war. Whether we started that fight or not is irrelevant today. By the end, we were incinerating hundreds of thousand civilians on a regular basis, or fighting and dying in the mud with rotting flesh, maggots and dysentery on some no account spit of land.

    I’m glad those folks got the job done, but it’s not something to wish to be repeated.

    • Agree: Captain Tripps
    • Replies: @raga10
    @Old Prude


    Pearl Harbor should be remembered by the U.S. at this point only as a reminder that we should never start another war.
     
    That should be the point of all war-related celebrations, but it never is... Australia for example still celebrates Anzac Day - in memory of Australian troops thrashed at Gallipoli in a poorly planned and badly executed campaign during WWI; event predating Pearl Harbour by over 20 years but still celebrated enthusiastically all over the country.

    I would be on board with such celebrations if the lesson from them was that Australia should never again stick its nose where it doesn't belong, but sadly that is not at all the lesson Australia took from its history.
  191. @Achmed E. Newman
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Thanks and LOL.

    I know you didn't make the map, but can you tell me why Iran is "West Korea"?

    Replies: @Jon, @Chrisnonymous, @tyrone, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Yes the nukes. 君が代 “Kimigayo” “His Imperial Majesty’s Reign” is the national anthem.

    *君 jūn can be also gentleman, sovereign

    The PRC version–

    View post on imgur.com

  192. @epebble
    @PiltdownMan

    Millions of cars were produced; but there was also Grapes of Wrath situation in the country. A Chicken in Every Pot was a manifesto of Presidential election. The ability to build so many ships and planes was a miracle but by no means certain or even feasible from the perspective of 1941.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

    • Thanks: epebble
  193. @Reg Cæsar
    @Achmed E. Newman


    PS: Yeah, I know, Reg, Hawaii wasn’t a State then, either…
     
    Or now, either. Funny how Republican crimes such as stealing islands in both oceans is so thoroughly silenced nowadays-- by Democrats. Cui bono.

    (BTW, if someone is ignorant enough not to know of Hawaii's non-statehood at the time, I'll leave the corrections to the 50 others who'll chime in.)

    The pertinent (and impertinent) question is not, did our leaders know what Japan was about to do, but did they give the Japanese every right to do so? Had we already committed acts of war? Or even just entered into an unspoken alliance with their enemies?

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Kratoklastes, @Diversity Heretic, @Mike Tre, @mike99588, @Jack D

    did they give the Japanese every right to do so?

    This is only relevant insofar as whether it was right to put the Japanese leaders on trial for “waging aggressive war” against the US. Even if they were not guilt of this, they committed many other war crimes. Tojo’s complicity in atrocities such as the Rape of Nanjing, the Bataan Death March, and human experimentation entailing the torture and death of thousands ensured that he had a hangman’s rope waiting for him regardless.

    However, this has nothing to do with a nation’s right to defend itself when attacked. Even if Japan had causus belli, the US had no obligations to say, “You’re right to bomb Pearl Harbor. We are not even going to try to shoot your planes down because you are so right. We surender to your rightness and are turning over all our territories in the Pacific to you.” That’s not how it works.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    Even if Japan had causus belli, the US had no obligations...
     
    The question is not whether it was right or wrong for them to attack, but whether we goaded them into doing so. That part was unnecessary. Lindbergh was right, as was his father, and they, not FDR, belong on a coin.

    Replies: @Jack D

  194. @Jack D
    @Moses

    It's in the news today that the statue of Robert E. Lee from Charlottesville (the one that was the subject of the "Unite the Right" rally) is going to be melted down and made into a new piece of public art by an African American heritage center.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/07/charlottesville-robert-e-lee-statue-melted

    What are the chances that the "new art" will be a statue of a black person? 100%? 110%?

    At first these statues were just going to be "relocated" (to the east, perhaps?), because "liberals" had qualms about destroying works of art. Remove them from a place of honor, sure, but put them somewhere else where they could be viewed in context as a product of their times. Maybe there would be a explanatory sign next to the statue informing us about the racist "Lost Cause" myth, telling us the "proper" way to think about it as a symbol of white privilege, yada, yada.

    But now we are literally in the iconoclastic phase of the Revolution. As you say, blacks don't really care for any history except for their own (not that whites ever cared much about black history either) and now that they are in charge they are going to literally remake history in their own image. We don't need no stinkin' explanatory signs, just melt that cracker.

    See, you boil the frog gradually. At first you are only removing the statue. Then you are melting it into unspecified "new art". Only in step 3 do you announce that it is going to be a statue of a Nat Turner or Toussaint Louverture. Or maybe Malcolm X since most blacks can't spell Toussaint Louverture.

    As Heine (almost) said, "Wherever they melt statues, in the end they will also melt human beings."

    Replies: @rebel yell, @Moses

    The destruction of the Lee statue is only possible because Lee has no defenders. There just aren’t any southern whites left who care, or only a few. I care because I like history and because I take a complex view of history and a complex view of human morality. But none of my relatives in the south would care about this at all. It has nothing to do with shopping, home furnishings, charming vacation locales, or the SEC.
    Read the magazine Southern Living – no place for Lee there.

  195. My godfather’s father, William Peacock, was AP editor who put out the bulletin that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor (and later that day the Philippine’s attack bulletin.

    The news had been relayed by Stephen Early, the president’s press secretary, who as an AP associate in 1917 had been sent to pick up the Zimmerman Telegram.

    When papers and periodicals tell this story, they always say something about the use of a derogatory expression for the Japanese. But Japs hardly seems especially derogatory. People don’t seem too upset if you say Brits. And it’s only in the Flash section, so it’s just shorthand. The full bulletin says Japanese. The series of AP reports are below:

    FLASH

    WASHINGTON — White House says Japs attack Pearl Harbor.

    BULLETIN

    WASHINGTON, Dec. 7 (AP) — President Roosevelt said in a statement today that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, from the air.

    The attack of the Japanese also was made on all naval and military “activities” on the island of Oahu.

    The president’s brief statement was read to reporters by Stephen Early, presidential secretary. No further details were given immediately.

    At the time of the White House announcement, the Japanese ambassadors, Kichisaburo Nomura and Saburo Kurusu, were at the State Department.

    ___

    FLASH

    WASHINGTON — Second air attack reported on Army and Navy bases in Manila.

    #

    First lead Japanese

    WASHINGTON, Dec. 7 — (AP) — Japanese air attacks on the American naval stronghold at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, and on defense facilities at Manila were announced today by the White House.

    -2-

    Only this terse announcement came from President Roosevelt immediately, but with it there could be no doubt that the Far Eastern situation had at last exploded, that the United States was at war, and that the conflict which began in Europe was spreading over the entire world.

    This disclosure had been accepted generally as an indication this country had all but given up hope that American-Japanese difficulties, arising from Japan’s aggression in the Far East, could be resolved by ordinary diplomatic procedure.

    #

    BULLETIN

    Second lead Japanese

    WASHINGTON, Dec. 7 — (AP) — Japanese airplanes today attacked American defense bases at Hawaii and Manila, and President Roosevelt ordered the Army and Navy to carry out undisclosed orders prepared for the defense of the United States.

    Announcing the president’s action for the protection of American territory, Presidential Secretary Stephen Early declared that so far as is known now the attacks were made wholly without warning — when both nations were at peace — and were delivered within an hour or so of the time that the Japanese ambassador had gone to the State Department to hand to the secretary of state Japan’s reply to the secretary’s memo of the 26th.

  196. @Jack D
    @Kratoklastes

    There was no blockade. Any other country willing to do so could supply Japan. There was an embargo, meaning that we wouldn't do so any more. There is nothing illegal about an embargo.

    The embargo came only after Japan had taken a series of agressive steps including allying with Nazi Germany, securing neutrality from Stalin and occupying Indochina, which put it at the doorstep of the Phillipines. Japan had not yet declared war against the US but they were clearly preparing the battlefield and we would have been idiots to sell them the rope that they needed to hang us with (in Lenin's words).

    At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis claimed that they were just following orders. At Jussie Smollett's trial, he claimed that he was attacked and had nothing to do with setting it up. You can claim all you want but a lie is still a lie.

    Replies: @dimples, @Reg Cæsar, @Clifford Brown, @John Regan, @Sparkon

    At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis claimed that they were just following orders…You can claim all you want but a lie is still a lie.

    At Nuremberg, confessions were extracted from Germans by crushing their testicles.

    Confessions at Nuremberg were obtained under torture. The grimmest of these tortures, practiced mostly by Jewish operatives on their German prisoners of war, was testicle crushing.

    https://www.freelists.org/archives/patriots/10-2015/pdfmUpbgZxwKJ.pdf

    Please think twice before citing Nuremberg as if it were some kind of epitome or paragon of justice. In truth, the perversions of justice at the Nuremberg War Crimes trials have empowered the biggest lying sacks of shit on the planet.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Sparkon

    Goering had testicles? Who knew? How could they find them under all the folds of fat?

    I recommend your PDF. There I learned that the Holocaust is a lie because only 1 million people were murdered in Auschwitz rather than 4 million. Well, if only a million people were gassed in that camp, it's really no big deal. I don't know why the Jews makes such a big tzimmis out of it.

    Sometimes I forget that some of the other posters on this site are tinfoil hat nucking futs. Thanks for reminding me.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Sparkon, @Reg Cæsar

    , @JimDandy
    @Sparkon

    It's interesting that they hired a demented psycho hillbilly with no actual experience to be the hangman. He botched the fuck out of many of those executions--kept 'em dangling in agony for long periods of time, and even had to go behind the curtain and yank on one of them to end it, apparently. Military ineptitude? Or deliberately orchestrated by players driven by sadistic unquenchable vengeance?

    Replies: @Jack D

  197. @Zero Philosopher
    The big story that is not told is how the U.S Dollar is on the verge of collapse, how the National Debt is 130% the size of the entire GDP, and how the U.S Federal Government has printed nearly $20 trillion in bills, assets, bonds and liabilities to foreign investors over the past 20 months(a trillion per month, roughly) since COVID hit.

    America's economic situation was *castastrophic* before COVID even hit. Because of the pandemic, over the past 1.5 year the government literally bought everyone's debt while sending them checks, printed $10 trillion exta in QE(quantitative easing,ie inflation), while, at the same time, real GDP shrank by 20% and revenue by 25%. To make matters worse, America got in a pissing match with China over Taiwan, which led the surgent superpower to inflict heavy penalties on U.S held businesses and Chinese nationals withdrew investments from U.S assets.

    What is happenning now is the culmination of more than 40 years of economic mismanegement and *both* right-wingers and left-wingers are to blame. It was Ronnie Reagan, worshipped by right-wing conservatives as a god, who turned the U.S.A from the World's biggest creditor nation to the World's biggest debtor nation, with his multi-trillion military budgets to bankrupt the U.S.S.R. To make matters worse, and to further weaken the U.S.S.R, Ronnie bought the support of Third World nations by essentially lowering American trade tariffs to zero to allow those countries to have huge trade superavits with America. So U.S companies went there where labor is cheaper, leading to the destruction of American Industry. The "rust belt" is as much to blame on Ronnie as on anyone else. He *dramatically* accelerated the de-instrialization of America that had started in the late 60's, early 70's. Then, his successor, Bush Senior, decided to start foreign wars that cost hundreds of billions of Dollars to protect the profits of oil companies that are not even headquartered in America, don't pay taxes to America, and still price gauge their oil to American consumers. Then, the left-winger, Bill The Cad followed, with his endless social programs fueled by taxes from the non-existent .com emerging internet economy of the 90's. By 1996, it was obvious that it was a bubble and phony, but Bill The Cad cared far more about reelection than the country, so he made Greenspan buy the failed assets from the failed internet companies. To his credit, Geroge Junior was going to do the right thing and let the bubble burst, but then 9/11 happened and he thought that a social revolution might happen if he let the economy crash after that national trauma. So the FED once again printed more money and re-inflated the bubble. Also, Bush Junior wanted to give it to Daddy by finishing the job that Daddy couldn't(killing Saddam), so he needed another hundred or two billion bucks for his desert advanture. At the same time, the Federally-subsidized home ownership program started in the early90's by Clinton culminates in the catastrophic 2008 crash. So the left-winger Obama takes office, and decides that the progrma that led to the worst economic crash since 1929 was a good idea, and that everyone in America, even people without jobs, should own a house, so he amplifies the already huge home ownership program of the Federal Government, and tells banks that they can make house loans to anyone, no matter what. So now the government assurance of the loans continues, except as long-term collaterals. By 2016, the bubble was by far the biggest in U.S history, no wonder since it was a bubble that started in the internet.com bubble of the 90's, and then combined with the housing bubble, and then with the U.S treasuries and then the fiscal stimulus bubble of the 2010's. So COVID hit, and 20 years of 3 bubbles combined with the biggest stimulus package in the U.S history, at some $20 trillion total.

    To summarize: huge trade deficits for 40 years, combined with a 40 years gigantic government spending spree, combined with not one, not two, but 3 financial bubbles over 25 years all inflated by the monetary policies of the FED that were not allowed to burst but instead combined with each other, followed by $20 trillion spending in less than 2 years due to the pandemic. And all that process happening while the country de-industrialized and became more and more dependent on imports.

    It is important to point out that *both* conservative right-wingers and liberal leftists are to blame fcor this. Both parties have bankrupted the government, and both parties have re-inflated bubbles that should have crahsed for no other reason than to assure their re-elections. The only difference is where the parties spend money. Right-wing conservatives spend in in the military-industrial complex(Eisenhower's warning notwithstanding), while liberals spend it on social programs and government handouts. But they *both* put America in this dire mess.

    I don't think Americans fully understand just how dire America's economic situation is. The U.S is broke as a competitive economy, and it is *beyond* broke at the governmental level. Not only doesd the U.S National Debt appraches $30 trillion, while the economy is only $22 trillion in size, it is actually worse than that. The actual size of the economy is actually closer to $15 trillion, because of hos massively infflated the financial sector is. The U.S has been able to run trade deficits of $800 billion a year for 40 years in a row because the World was willing to pay for it, since th U.S holds the World's Reserve Currency. Not anymore.

    What is about to happen is that there will be a run on the U.S Dollar. Not similar to what happened in 1971 when America was struggling to finance it's efforts in Vietnam and no longer had enough gold to back up it's reserves, a problem that was "solved" by Nixon exiting the gold standard. No, this is a run on the Dollar where the Dollar will be as good as toilet paper. Actually, toilet paper is better since it actually serves a function!

    Some economists are proposing a new term for what is about to come: "tankflation"(tanking + inflation), which means basically a depression where, at the same time, money loses it's values. Not really a stagflation, but something even worse. No, not as bad as the Weimar Republic. WORSE. Because during the Weimar Republic, as much as currency became worhtless, the German industry and economy were actually slowly recovering from WW1.

    Americans don't really understand just how bad it is what is coming. It is basically the end of the U.S as a World economic power, and the end of the Dollar as the World's fiat currency.

    First, the purchasing power of your money will decrease to a quarter of what it is today. But, at the same time, everything that you purchase will cost more, as America makes nothing in 2021 and imports everything, and you'll have to actually purchase their currency in order to purchase their products, instead of just printing Dollars like we used to. Secondly, not backed by foreign money, the U.S Government will have to default on all internal payments. First, all the Federal bureaucracy will not receive their salaries, including salaries you definitely want to pay, like those of the military. Then, state governments as their revenues plummet from collapsed sales taxes(no one wll be able to afford anything, so no sales tax to local governemnts), the police, fire fighters, etc, will go without salary. As no one accepts Dollars, and the costs of doing business in Dollars becomes even greater, the few remaining American industry will leave the country despite American labor now being so cheap, further tanking the economy. In the end, the only thing the U.S will have left to negotiate some power and position in the World will be it's nukes. That is, a very similar situation to Russia's in 1991. Something along the lines of telling the World:"Gives us something, or we might nuke a couple of your cites, retaliations be damned, because otherwise we will starve, so we got nothint to lose. You do."

    No, this will not be like the 1929 crash and the depression of the 20's. It will be something *significantly* worse. Oh, U.S.A, how the mighty have fallen!

    When you add this to the current polarization of the U.S, with the Right being full or racists and the Left full of "woke" delusionalk morons, the country might actuallty not survive this. It would take a tyrant-titan with absolute control of the military to declare martial law Roman-style to save the country from utter chaos and collapse, and I cannot imagine Ameircans accepting a tyrant-titan figure . So this is it.

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong, @Rob, @74v56ruthiyj

    What’s wrong with racists? Given the options, I could accept a pro-White racist tyrant.

  198. @James Braxton
    How would America be different today if instead of plunging into all out world war, we had responded in kind to Japan's attack and called it a day?

    Replies: @anon, @Flip, @Muggles

    How would America be different today if instead of plunging into all out world war, we had responded in kind to Japan’s attack and called it a day?

    That was impossible given the poor state of US military assets in the Pacific.

    It took Doolittle and the US military over four months to launch a somewhat successful albeit token air raid on the Japanese homeland after Pearl Harbor. That raid did little damage.

    The Japanese had done military planning on the Pearl Harbor raid for several years and had acquired a lot of detailed intelligence about the layout, etc. Four carriers sneaked up close!

    So this isn’t some schoolyard punch-out where you can show up tomorrow and dish out what you received. Meanwhile, the Japanese were invading the Philippines, Singapore, Malaya, Hong Kong, Dutch East Asia (Indonesia) and most of SE Asia. Seriously wiping out the UK naval forces in the Pacific and wiping out any American bases and assets close to Japan.

    You logic is flawed by both the reality on the ground/sea and the psychology of the Japanese military command. They were seriously deluded as to their invincibility.

    After all, it took two unprecedented American atomic bomb strikes to finally get them to admit defeat. After over two years of effectively losing their military capability for meaningful offense.

    Fighting to the bitter end, as with Hitler and Tojo, means you have to inflict a bitter end.

    How long did it take the American government to get out of Vietnam and Afghanistan despite much smaller stakes for “defeat” and military loss?

    • Replies: @James Braxton
    @Muggles

    All valid points, but were the Philippines, etc. worth 400,000 American lives?

    Replies: @JMcG

    , @PaceLaw
    @Muggles

    Muggles, quite a well stated analysis of Japan’s actions during WWII. Japan was incredibly brutal in its subjugation of defeated territories and its dealings with POWs. A more significant measure, than just “responding in kind,” was called for by the United States. Just look at the results: the Japanese have gone from a warlike country believing in it’s racial superiority and it’s Bushido religion, to being gentle little, docile lambs today.

  199. @John Derbyshire
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    So's your old man https://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Diaries/2021-07.html#04

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Fair enough Mr. Derbyshire. But you shouldn’t conflate rejection of cultural self-flagellation with moral apathy:

    -There are no serious CCP historians today who don’t repudiate, to varying extents, Mao’s misdeeds. GLF and CR are termed as 十年浩劫 Ten Year Great Disaster. (For reference: youtube talks of Nanjing University’s Gao Hua 高華)

    -Both the CCP and Japanese ruling class tells a self-serving narrative of history which stokes Sino-Japanese enmity. But jokes aside, it’s simply untrue that the Japanese, across political spectrum, have not expressed remorse.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Nobody in the PRC wants the Cultural Revolution back, and despite Xi's personal sympathy for some aspects of the Mao era (after all, to him, it transformed him from callow teenage rebel to man of the party and nation), he's more than smart enough to understand this.

    It speaks *volumes* about Chinese perceptions of the United States that Cultural Revolution comparisons pop up regularly these days-and nothing good in those volumes.

    (Also, I thought the Filipinos were the Asian Mexicans.)

  200. @American Citizen
    Pearl Harbor was the catalyst for (white) America to join WWII and win it.

    The media has no interest today in glorifying and memorializing the people who fought in the war and built America postwar. The heroes of the past are today's domestic terrorist.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Moses, @JimDandy

    Pearl Harbor was bait. We provoked Japan into attacking us because FDR wanted into a war that the American people opposed. He had advanced knowledge of the attack, and chose to let it happen.

    When Kevin McCarthy said that no one voted for Biden to be FDR, Ocasio-Cortez shouted, “I did!” The current situation in the Ukraine indicates she might get exactly what she voted for.

  201. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    There is nothing illegal about an embargo.
     
    No, but when you are supplying matériel to the other side, it erodes your claim of being a non-belligerent, and destroys any claim of neutrality. The question is not whether what we did was "illegal", but what Japan did. Did our actions authorize an attack?

    Replies: @Marquis, @Colin Wright

    ‘…Did our actions authorize an attack?’

    No.

    In point of fact, embargoing Japan was about the minimum we could have done, morally, given what Japan was doing.

    If you’re using horsewhips to beat your wife, and you keep coming into my store to buy more horsewhips, not only am I morally entitled to refuse to sell you any more, I’m morally obliged not to.

    I appreciate the appeal of revisionism, and it’s often a useful corrective to the official story, but here, you would literally insist the US should have taken the wrong side, and not merely permitted evil, but profited from it.

    No, we shouldn’t have kept selling Japan scrap steel. Nor should we have kept selling her oil. If Japan wanted those commodities, all she had to do was stop waging an incredibly murderous war of conquest in China.

    • Replies: @74v56ruthiyj
    @Colin Wright

    Our embargoes were explicitly conditional. Stop killing Chinese and we'll sell you stuff.

  202. @kaganovitch
    @AnotherDad

    You’d think they’d want to commemorate how the Red Tails valiantly stepped up and defeated the Nazis after they attacked Pearl Harbor.

    When I was a wee lad,I tutored one semester at a Community College – I had the following conversation (true story)
    “During the Pacific war , the American strategy of island hopping …” Yo, teach, what was the Pacific War ? “The Pacific War was the conflict between America and Japan during WW2.” Wo,wo, you sayin’ America had a war with Japan? “Yes, indeed they did.” No Shit, Who won?

    Replies: @hhsiii

    Ha, like Yo Teach, the fake sitcom in Apatow’s Funny People. They actually aired clips from this on NBC. With Jason Schwartzman as Mr. Bradford. I think Rerun played the principal.

  203. @Sparkon
    @Jack D


    At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis claimed that they were just following orders...You can claim all you want but a lie is still a lie.
     
    At Nuremberg, confessions were extracted from Germans by crushing their testicles.


    Confessions at Nuremberg were obtained under torture. The grimmest of these tortures, practiced mostly by Jewish operatives on their German prisoners of war, was testicle crushing.
     
    https://www.freelists.org/archives/patriots/10-2015/pdfmUpbgZxwKJ.pdf

    Please think twice before citing Nuremberg as if it were some kind of epitome or paragon of justice. In truth, the perversions of justice at the Nuremberg War Crimes trials have empowered the biggest lying sacks of shit on the planet.

    Replies: @Jack D, @JimDandy

    Goering had testicles? Who knew? How could they find them under all the folds of fat?

    I recommend your PDF. There I learned that the Holocaust is a lie because only 1 million people were murdered in Auschwitz rather than 4 million. Well, if only a million people were gassed in that camp, it’s really no big deal. I don’t know why the Jews makes such a big tzimmis out of it.

    Sometimes I forget that some of the other posters on this site are tinfoil hat nucking futs. Thanks for reminding me.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    Don't feed the idiots. It's advice I should follow more often.

    Joking aside, Goering was actually pretty muscular and handsome before he went to seed in power. After the war at Nuremberg, he was put on a diet and weaned off his morphine addiction. He obviously didn't get his youthful looks back, but you can see vestiges of what he physically and mentally was before on the stand.

    (Goering stuck me as basically being a Renaissance condottiere transported 400 years in the future, NGL: when asked why he joined the Nazi Party, his answer boiled down to a desire for adventure after WWI, coupled I suppose with Hitler's unique charisma. One is tempted to wonder if Cesare Borgia would have gone down a similar path had he had access to that level of modern day hedonism.)

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Anonymous, @Chrisnonymous

    , @Sparkon
    @Jack D

    Ad hominem with an F-bomb!

    Wow! That's really impressive verbal pyrotechnics, dude, but is that all you've got?

    One million was the Soviet figure, and I think Darkmoon treated even that number hypothetically, by preceding it with an "if."

    According to an International Red Cross survey conducted after the war, only about 270,000 - 300,000 persons of all nationalities died in all the German camps from all causes during WWII, so there were no millions of dead Jews exterminated by the Germans in WWII.

    It didn't happen. It's nothing but a big, fat lie.

    But apparently in your mind, and commenter nebulafox's, extracting phony confessions with torture to support that big, fat lie is A-OK.

    A lie is still a lie except when your side tells it, eh Jack?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    Goering had testicles? Who knew?
     
    A full pair, according to Allied intelligence:



    https://youtu.be/JutPp0Oc0JQ
  204. @Sparkon
    @Jack D


    At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis claimed that they were just following orders...You can claim all you want but a lie is still a lie.
     
    At Nuremberg, confessions were extracted from Germans by crushing their testicles.


    Confessions at Nuremberg were obtained under torture. The grimmest of these tortures, practiced mostly by Jewish operatives on their German prisoners of war, was testicle crushing.
     
    https://www.freelists.org/archives/patriots/10-2015/pdfmUpbgZxwKJ.pdf

    Please think twice before citing Nuremberg as if it were some kind of epitome or paragon of justice. In truth, the perversions of justice at the Nuremberg War Crimes trials have empowered the biggest lying sacks of shit on the planet.

    Replies: @Jack D, @JimDandy

    It’s interesting that they hired a demented psycho hillbilly with no actual experience to be the hangman. He botched the fuck out of many of those executions–kept ’em dangling in agony for long periods of time, and even had to go behind the curtain and yank on one of them to end it, apparently. Military ineptitude? Or deliberately orchestrated by players driven by sadistic unquenchable vengeance?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @JimDandy

    Really? You feel sorry for these monsters who cause the death of millions? Couldn't you save your sympathy for Pol Pot or for John Wayne Gacy?

    They should have gotten these guys - they were highly experienced and knew how to provide service with a smile:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Public_execution_in_German-occupied_Poland.jpg

    Or maybe these guys:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/The_Black_Book_of_Poland_%2821%E2%80%9324%29.jpg

    or these:

    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/images/large/a86be095-cd4f-40f0-8743-18a0dd19be08.jpg.pagespeed.ce.-d1r8scleh.jpg

    or these:

    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/images/large/7643e3d0-5936-4e0b-be39-9e8cd7782dcc.jpg.pagespeed.ce.2j-Ddxo6vl.jpg

    This guy has a different technique:

    https://ghb67.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/pole-hanging-dachau.jpg

    This one preferred ladies:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Public_execution_of_54_Poles_in_Ro%C5%BCki_%281942%29.jpg

    I could go on and on. Do you understand what it means to have been responsible for the deaths of MILLIONS of humans?

    Replies: @JimDandy, @nebulafox

  205. @Colin Wright
    @Reg Cæsar

    '...Did our actions authorize an attack?'

    No.

    In point of fact, embargoing Japan was about the minimum we could have done, morally, given what Japan was doing.

    If you're using horsewhips to beat your wife, and you keep coming into my store to buy more horsewhips, not only am I morally entitled to refuse to sell you any more, I'm morally obliged not to.

    I appreciate the appeal of revisionism, and it's often a useful corrective to the official story, but here, you would literally insist the US should have taken the wrong side, and not merely permitted evil, but profited from it.

    No, we shouldn't have kept selling Japan scrap steel. Nor should we have kept selling her oil. If Japan wanted those commodities, all she had to do was stop waging an incredibly murderous war of conquest in China.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj

    Our embargoes were explicitly conditional. Stop killing Chinese and we’ll sell you stuff.

  206. @Jack D
    @Sparkon

    Goering had testicles? Who knew? How could they find them under all the folds of fat?

    I recommend your PDF. There I learned that the Holocaust is a lie because only 1 million people were murdered in Auschwitz rather than 4 million. Well, if only a million people were gassed in that camp, it's really no big deal. I don't know why the Jews makes such a big tzimmis out of it.

    Sometimes I forget that some of the other posters on this site are tinfoil hat nucking futs. Thanks for reminding me.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Sparkon, @Reg Cæsar

    Don’t feed the idiots. It’s advice I should follow more often.

    Joking aside, Goering was actually pretty muscular and handsome before he went to seed in power. After the war at Nuremberg, he was put on a diet and weaned off his morphine addiction. He obviously didn’t get his youthful looks back, but you can see vestiges of what he physically and mentally was before on the stand.

    (Goering stuck me as basically being a Renaissance condottiere transported 400 years in the future, NGL: when asked why he joined the Nazi Party, his answer boiled down to a desire for adventure after WWI, coupled I suppose with Hitler’s unique charisma. One is tempted to wonder if Cesare Borgia would have gone down a similar path had he had access to that level of modern day hedonism.)

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @nebulafox

    By (abysmally low) Nazi standards he was more cultivated and less personally anti-Semitic than most. But what he did still made him more than worthy of the gallows.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @nebulafox

    , @Anon
    @nebulafox

    Read somewhere that he was thought to be more of an opportunist than a true believer in the cause, and that he was less anti-semitic than others in leadership. Though he signed Wannasee.

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @nebulafox

    It's telling that Göring was initially in the pro-China camp in NS Germany, along old school army aristocrats like von Blomberg, von Falkenhausen, Foreign Minister von Neurath, Reichsbank President Schacht (acquitted at Nuremberg), representing big industrialist interests.

    Whereas the pro-Japan camp was led by bozo former champagne salesman von Ribbentrop, whom Göring called "Führer's evil spirit".

    Replies: @nebulafox

    , @Anonymous
    @nebulafox

    Goering was the most significant man in the regime after Hitler and would have been the most likely successor if the boss had died before 1943.

    However he (as head of the Luftwaffe) became the regime's official scapegoat for the misfortunes that afflicted Germany as the war situation worsened. This made him toxic after 1942. (It's debatable whether his morphine addiction and other moral lapses were a cause, or consequence, of his loss of power and prestige. He was not a happy man.)

    (He was blamed for the failure to subdue Britain in 1940, for the failure to save Rommel and Stalingrad in 1942-3, and above all, for the failure to prevent the bombing of German cities from 1942 onwards. Of course the real culprit for these things was Hitler, but Goering was made to take the flak.)

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @nebulafox

    Handsome yes, muscular no. You can see his muscularity from the cut of the shoulders in his jackets at an early age. He had a small chest and narrow shoulders. That's why he got so fat-and-jowly-looking--he didn't have the frame to absorb the weight. You can see it again in the Nuremburg trials--when he lost weight as an older man, his head emerged as enormous compared to his body. I'm half German and have a different style of German frame--I've been close to 300lbs in my life, but at that weight didn't look as bulbous as Goering.

  207. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @John Derbyshire

    Fair enough Mr. Derbyshire. But you shouldn't conflate rejection of cultural self-flagellation with moral apathy:

    -There are no serious CCP historians today who don't repudiate, to varying extents, Mao's misdeeds. GLF and CR are termed as 十年浩劫 Ten Year Great Disaster. (For reference: youtube talks of Nanjing University's Gao Hua 高華)

    -Both the CCP and Japanese ruling class tells a self-serving narrative of history which stokes Sino-Japanese enmity. But jokes aside, it's simply untrue that the Japanese, across political spectrum, have not expressed remorse.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    Nobody in the PRC wants the Cultural Revolution back, and despite Xi’s personal sympathy for some aspects of the Mao era (after all, to him, it transformed him from callow teenage rebel to man of the party and nation), he’s more than smart enough to understand this.

    It speaks *volumes* about Chinese perceptions of the United States that Cultural Revolution comparisons pop up regularly these days-and nothing good in those volumes.

    (Also, I thought the Filipinos were the Asian Mexicans.)

  208. @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    The US is not some isolated tribe perpetually on the brink of extinction, for which the loss of even a few women could spell demographic disaster. If half of the US combat deaths in Vietnam or even World War II had been women the effects on the nation's long-term demographic growth would have been minimal and completely gone in a generation.

    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are "too delicate" for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that's a different issue). You'll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Finally, some Beta losers think that infantilizing and patronizing women is a surefire way to get magnificent women to drop their panties for them. Newsflash: it doesn't work.

    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj, @Wilkey, @R.G. Camara, @Alfa158, @Kratoklastes, @Hibernian, @David Davenport, @Mike Tre, @nebulafox, @Anonymous

    What I’m skeptical of is the efficacy of mixed units, largely because it’s bad for combat discipline. Anybody who understands anything at all about men will understand how deeply ingrained the instinct to protect women is, even if that were to put missions at risk. I also don’t need to tell you about what can happen to female POWs captured by the enemy, and the resulting impact on discipline (the men will likely seek revenge, possibly against civilians) and/or morale. If we employed the Israeli or WWII Soviet model, with women largely being in their own units, or in combat support teams when mixed with men, it’d be a different story.

    (Don’t believe me? Look at how a typical man responds to a typical woman crying. We’ll often do or say just about anything to get them to stop. Why? It’s *biologically driven discomfort*. Many women probably feel something similar with children in a way men don’t, excepting their own, for comparison’s sake.)

    TBH, right now, the majority of Americans below 35 can’t pass the physical tests to enlist anyway, male and female alike. I think that should be the primary problem we’re all focusing on rather than questions of equity or diversity or whatever.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @prosa123
    @nebulafox

    I strongly suspect that male protective instincts toward women are situation-dependent. While a typical man might feel compelled to come to the aid of a woman whom another man is harassing in a nightclub - though that might be in part because he thinks he can score with her - I highly doubt that'll be a factor if they're fighting for their lives alongside each other against a strong determined enemy, for example in a Normandy-style invasion of Iran or a newly fundamentalist Turkey. This is especially true if the woman has shown herself to be a tough fighter, the equal of any man.

    As for all-female combat units, I would reluctantly support the idea if indeed cohesion of mixed units became an issue, but only so long as the female units have the same risk of death as the male units.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj, @nebulafox

  209. Anonymous[950] • Disclaimer says:
    @prosa123
    @Reg Cæsar

    The US is not some isolated tribe perpetually on the brink of extinction, for which the loss of even a few women could spell demographic disaster. If half of the US combat deaths in Vietnam or even World War II had been women the effects on the nation's long-term demographic growth would have been minimal and completely gone in a generation.

    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are "too delicate" for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that's a different issue). You'll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Finally, some Beta losers think that infantilizing and patronizing women is a surefire way to get magnificent women to drop their panties for them. Newsflash: it doesn't work.

    My theory is that most of the male opposition to women in combat is fear that the women will show themselves perfectly capable, and therefore will negate a supposed male advantage.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj, @Wilkey, @R.G. Camara, @Alfa158, @Kratoklastes, @Hibernian, @David Davenport, @Mike Tre, @nebulafox, @Anonymous

    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are “too delicate” for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that’s a different issue). You’ll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.

    Ask any one of them to do 10 pull-ups.

    What you’ll see is a lot of squeaking, a little grunting, a few will squint their eyes and bunch up their faces while betraying their white spandex shorts with unsightly brown spots… but little to no repetitions to be accounted for.

    Then maybe try convincing Serena Williams to play a tennis match against the top male tennis player, and watch her lose every single set, every single time, while running breathlessly about the court, cast as that man’s bitch. For eternity. Now try every other standard professional directly competitive athletic event requiring power and coordination.

    Look at all those failed women, featuring soiled panties! 😮

    Now siddown and shuddup, missy. And thank your flipping god that mens chivalry has dictated keeping your kind off the front lines, so far.

    • Replies: @68W58
    @Anonymous

    In 1998 Karsten Braasch, who was ranked 203 in the world, played the Williams sisters playing a set against each of them. He beat Serena 6-1 and Venus 6-2 and said that he spent the morning drinking beer and playing golf. The difference in male and female athletic performance is huge, but our betters ignore that when it comes to an actual life or death competition like combat and pretend that females will be able to handle that just as well as men.

    Replies: @Jack D

  210. Anonymous[304] • Disclaimer says:

    US needs Japan as junior partner against China, so it now underplays Pearl Harbor.

    How history repeats itself. US and UK recruited Japan as junior partner in carving up weak China. Japan’s takeover of Taiwan was accepted by the West, which did nothing to stop the takeover of Korea and then Manchuria.

    Today, China is much stronger, but Japan is once again useful as junior partner of the US in aggression against China. For some crazy reason, US and Japan is telling China that Taiwan belongs to the globalist Empire.

    As for Emmett Till, it’s Jewish Power’s Iwo Jima moment against White America.
    Along with the globo-homo flag, the BLM flag is the Jewish Way of saying, “We conquered you, and you obey us”, like the Japanese were forced to bow down to MacArthur and accept the US-imposed constitution.

  211. @Paleo Liberal
    I am a liberal.

    The vast majority of you are conservative or even further right.

    Let’s forget about that and take a few moments to remember friends and relatives who fought in WW II.

    And take some time to reflect on the civilians whose lives were uprooted by the war, and whose future was secured by our victory.

    As for me: my grandfather fought in the Pacific, USMC officer, last battle was Okinawa.


    Many of my friends growing up had fathers who fought in the war.

    Both of my wife’s parents were refugees and/or “internally displaced persons” at some point during the war. Not all of their siblings made it.

    My sister-in-law’s European relatives all died during the war. Every last one of them.

    Probably all of you have friends and relatives who fought or were refugees or whatever.

    Let us hope that at some point in our future the world will finally be able to live in peace.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Bill Jones

    Let us hope that at some point in our future the world will finally be able to live in peace.

    For that to happen you murderous Liberals will have to go.

  212. @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    Don't feed the idiots. It's advice I should follow more often.

    Joking aside, Goering was actually pretty muscular and handsome before he went to seed in power. After the war at Nuremberg, he was put on a diet and weaned off his morphine addiction. He obviously didn't get his youthful looks back, but you can see vestiges of what he physically and mentally was before on the stand.

    (Goering stuck me as basically being a Renaissance condottiere transported 400 years in the future, NGL: when asked why he joined the Nazi Party, his answer boiled down to a desire for adventure after WWI, coupled I suppose with Hitler's unique charisma. One is tempted to wonder if Cesare Borgia would have gone down a similar path had he had access to that level of modern day hedonism.)

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Anonymous, @Chrisnonymous

    By (abysmally low) Nazi standards he was more cultivated and less personally anti-Semitic than most. But what he did still made him more than worthy of the gallows.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    By (abysmally low) Nazi standards he was more cultivated and less personally anti-Semitic than most. But what he did still made him more than worthy of the gallows.
     
    We get all hung up about legalisms introduced after WWII. The reality of the conclusions of most wars is reciprocity plus interest imposed on the losers - *any* losers. WWII was a huge exception. Leaving aside the question of atrocities, if the entire Axis populations had been butchered to the last man, woman and child, the total number would have been a fraction of the deaths on the Allied side. That's why the bellyaching on the Axis side strikes me as unmanly - they fought a war where they threw away the rule book, yet whined about infinitesimal postwar reprisals, which were, in a limited fashion, what the war crimes trials were all about.

    Replies: @Jack D, @74v56ruthiyj, @JMcG

    , @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    That wasn't the point I had in mind, but since we are on the topic... He was diagnosed as a sociopath at Nuremberg. This meant that he was literally not neurologically capable of caring all that much about ideology. Doesn't say much about morality when your brain doesn't have the chemistry to do that.

    (YMMV, but I do not think Hitler himself was a sociopath. I have my own theories about him. While he did have an extreme lack of empathy for those he wanted to kill, that hardly made him unique in radical politics, especially when that cross that demographic with WWI vets who had to emotionally desensitize themselves to keep sane during the conflict. But he really just didn't tick off many of the boxes for sociopathy.)

    Beria didn't care much for the ideological tenets of Communism over in the USSR. He even advocated the restoration of private property. While he was never tested, he basically fit the definition of sociopathy to a T. The dude was exceedingly evil-a serial rapist who enjoyed torturing people personally-but also genuinely advocates better relations with the West. Precisely because he couldn't take Communism seriously, he saw in a way Stalin never did that the USSR was unlikely to win the Cold War if it dragged on long enough.

    Sociopaths are very dangerous, especially since they cannot be changed. But on the whole, they are not the worst case scenario. Close to it, but compared to the true believers, I will take the sociopath any time.

  213. @Flip
    @James Braxton

    Hitler declared war on America a few days later on December 11.

    Replies: @James Braxton

    Just because you get invited to a party doesn’t mean you have to accept the invitation.

  214. @Muggles
    @James Braxton


    How would America be different today if instead of plunging into all out world war, we had responded in kind to Japan’s attack and called it a day?
     
    That was impossible given the poor state of US military assets in the Pacific.

    It took Doolittle and the US military over four months to launch a somewhat successful albeit token air raid on the Japanese homeland after Pearl Harbor. That raid did little damage.

    The Japanese had done military planning on the Pearl Harbor raid for several years and had acquired a lot of detailed intelligence about the layout, etc. Four carriers sneaked up close!

    So this isn't some schoolyard punch-out where you can show up tomorrow and dish out what you received. Meanwhile, the Japanese were invading the Philippines, Singapore, Malaya, Hong Kong, Dutch East Asia (Indonesia) and most of SE Asia. Seriously wiping out the UK naval forces in the Pacific and wiping out any American bases and assets close to Japan.

    You logic is flawed by both the reality on the ground/sea and the psychology of the Japanese military command. They were seriously deluded as to their invincibility.

    After all, it took two unprecedented American atomic bomb strikes to finally get them to admit defeat. After over two years of effectively losing their military capability for meaningful offense.

    Fighting to the bitter end, as with Hitler and Tojo, means you have to inflict a bitter end.

    How long did it take the American government to get out of Vietnam and Afghanistan despite much smaller stakes for "defeat" and military loss?

    Replies: @James Braxton, @PaceLaw

    All valid points, but were the Philippines, etc. worth 400,000 American lives?

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @James Braxton

    No. What has become of the United States isn’t worth 400,000 American lives either.

  215. @Jack D
    @nebulafox

    By (abysmally low) Nazi standards he was more cultivated and less personally anti-Semitic than most. But what he did still made him more than worthy of the gallows.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @nebulafox

    By (abysmally low) Nazi standards he was more cultivated and less personally anti-Semitic than most. But what he did still made him more than worthy of the gallows.

    We get all hung up about legalisms introduced after WWII. The reality of the conclusions of most wars is reciprocity plus interest imposed on the losers – *any* losers. WWII was a huge exception. Leaving aside the question of atrocities, if the entire Axis populations had been butchered to the last man, woman and child, the total number would have been a fraction of the deaths on the Allied side. That’s why the bellyaching on the Axis side strikes me as unmanly – they fought a war where they threw away the rule book, yet whined about infinitesimal postwar reprisals, which were, in a limited fashion, what the war crimes trials were all about.

    • Troll: John Regan
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Johann Ricke

    I really don't hear much whining from Germany and Japan, just from unz pro-Fascists.

    Note that after WWI, there were no war crimes trials, because in WWI the Germans hadn't thrown away the rule book to the same extent. All wars are bloody but what the Axis did in WWII was beyond the pale. I'm shocked by the people here who appear to take the Japanese side. FDR didn't make them do human experiments or starve POWs or massacre Chinese.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @John Regan, @JMcG, @Anonymous

    , @74v56ruthiyj
    @Johann Ricke

    The entire Axis populations would add up to 200 million plus. You're saying that the Allies lost more than 200 million?

    , @JMcG
    @Johann Ricke

    What are you counting as deaths on the allied side?

  216. @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    Don't feed the idiots. It's advice I should follow more often.

    Joking aside, Goering was actually pretty muscular and handsome before he went to seed in power. After the war at Nuremberg, he was put on a diet and weaned off his morphine addiction. He obviously didn't get his youthful looks back, but you can see vestiges of what he physically and mentally was before on the stand.

    (Goering stuck me as basically being a Renaissance condottiere transported 400 years in the future, NGL: when asked why he joined the Nazi Party, his answer boiled down to a desire for adventure after WWI, coupled I suppose with Hitler's unique charisma. One is tempted to wonder if Cesare Borgia would have gone down a similar path had he had access to that level of modern day hedonism.)

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Anonymous, @Chrisnonymous

    Read somewhere that he was thought to be more of an opportunist than a true believer in the cause, and that he was less anti-semitic than others in leadership. Though he signed Wannasee.

  217. @Jefferson Temple
    @Colin Wright

    Seems similar to the current Huff about Russia and Ukraine. Now, as then, why the hell is it any of our business?

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘Seems similar to the current Huff about Russia and Ukraine. Now, as then, why the hell is it any of our business?’

    You’re comparing apples and oranges. Then, it was a matter of a power pursuing a horrific war of conquest — and we were merely declining to continue to sell them raw materials for so long as they continued.

    Now, it’s a matter of stomping around in a rather convoluted question, with regards to a country that has hardly started committing the greatest atrocities in living memory, and with respect to which we are proposing to do considerably more than merely stop selling Russia whatever.

    It’s as if you said, ‘you called the police when that man started raping that girl on the front lawn — so why can’t I shoot you when your dog takes a crap on the sidewalk?’

    Two different things.

  218. @Stogumber
    Memory relies on an emotional need to relive emotions again and again. And that's different for every generation. There are a lot of old people nowadays who try to relive the CRM (civil rights movement) era again and again. A real CRM nostalgia, and even some youngsters who want to replicate the noble and heroic deeds of their ancestors. That's why Emmett Till is inevitable in our present days. Let it be ...

    Replies: @D. K., @anon, @Yngvar

  219. @Muggles
    @James Braxton


    How would America be different today if instead of plunging into all out world war, we had responded in kind to Japan’s attack and called it a day?
     
    That was impossible given the poor state of US military assets in the Pacific.

    It took Doolittle and the US military over four months to launch a somewhat successful albeit token air raid on the Japanese homeland after Pearl Harbor. That raid did little damage.

    The Japanese had done military planning on the Pearl Harbor raid for several years and had acquired a lot of detailed intelligence about the layout, etc. Four carriers sneaked up close!

    So this isn't some schoolyard punch-out where you can show up tomorrow and dish out what you received. Meanwhile, the Japanese were invading the Philippines, Singapore, Malaya, Hong Kong, Dutch East Asia (Indonesia) and most of SE Asia. Seriously wiping out the UK naval forces in the Pacific and wiping out any American bases and assets close to Japan.

    You logic is flawed by both the reality on the ground/sea and the psychology of the Japanese military command. They were seriously deluded as to their invincibility.

    After all, it took two unprecedented American atomic bomb strikes to finally get them to admit defeat. After over two years of effectively losing their military capability for meaningful offense.

    Fighting to the bitter end, as with Hitler and Tojo, means you have to inflict a bitter end.

    How long did it take the American government to get out of Vietnam and Afghanistan despite much smaller stakes for "defeat" and military loss?

    Replies: @James Braxton, @PaceLaw

    Muggles, quite a well stated analysis of Japan’s actions during WWII. Japan was incredibly brutal in its subjugation of defeated territories and its dealings with POWs. A more significant measure, than just “responding in kind,” was called for by the United States. Just look at the results: the Japanese have gone from a warlike country believing in it’s racial superiority and it’s Bushido religion, to being gentle little, docile lambs today.

  220. @Jack D
    @Sparkon

    Goering had testicles? Who knew? How could they find them under all the folds of fat?

    I recommend your PDF. There I learned that the Holocaust is a lie because only 1 million people were murdered in Auschwitz rather than 4 million. Well, if only a million people were gassed in that camp, it's really no big deal. I don't know why the Jews makes such a big tzimmis out of it.

    Sometimes I forget that some of the other posters on this site are tinfoil hat nucking futs. Thanks for reminding me.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Sparkon, @Reg Cæsar

    Ad hominem with an F-bomb!

    Wow! That’s really impressive verbal pyrotechnics, dude, but is that all you’ve got?

    One million was the Soviet figure, and I think Darkmoon treated even that number hypothetically, by preceding it with an “if.”

    According to an International Red Cross survey conducted after the war, only about 270,000 – 300,000 persons of all nationalities died in all the German camps from all causes during WWII, so there were no millions of dead Jews exterminated by the Germans in WWII.

    It didn’t happen. It’s nothing but a big, fat lie.

    But apparently in your mind, and commenter nebulafox’s, extracting phony confessions with torture to support that big, fat lie is A-OK.

    A lie is still a lie except when your side tells it, eh Jack?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Sparkon

    Or maybe your side committed the most exhaustively documented crime in history?

  221. @Marquis
    @Reg Cæsar

    Japan one it was wrong; they debated it. You declare war before you attack a country.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    You declare war before you attack a country.

    We seem to have forgotten that point ourselves. So we forfeit that argument.

  222. @Jack D
    @Sparkon

    Goering had testicles? Who knew? How could they find them under all the folds of fat?

    I recommend your PDF. There I learned that the Holocaust is a lie because only 1 million people were murdered in Auschwitz rather than 4 million. Well, if only a million people were gassed in that camp, it's really no big deal. I don't know why the Jews makes such a big tzimmis out of it.

    Sometimes I forget that some of the other posters on this site are tinfoil hat nucking futs. Thanks for reminding me.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Sparkon, @Reg Cæsar

    Goering had testicles? Who knew?

    A full pair, according to Allied intelligence:

  223. @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar


    did they give the Japanese every right to do so?
     
    This is only relevant insofar as whether it was right to put the Japanese leaders on trial for "waging aggressive war" against the US. Even if they were not guilt of this, they committed many other war crimes. Tojo's complicity in atrocities such as the Rape of Nanjing, the Bataan Death March, and human experimentation entailing the torture and death of thousands ensured that he had a hangman's rope waiting for him regardless.

    However, this has nothing to do with a nation's right to defend itself when attacked. Even if Japan had causus belli, the US had no obligations to say, "You're right to bomb Pearl Harbor. We are not even going to try to shoot your planes down because you are so right. We surender to your rightness and are turning over all our territories in the Pacific to you." That's not how it works.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Even if Japan had causus belli, the US had no obligations…

    The question is not whether it was right or wrong for them to attack, but whether we goaded them into doing so. That part was unnecessary. Lindbergh was right, as was his father, and they, not FDR, belong on a coin.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    I have good news for you - FDR is going off the money, because he did redlining.

    The bad news is, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad is gonna replace him, not Lindbergh.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  224. @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    By (abysmally low) Nazi standards he was more cultivated and less personally anti-Semitic than most. But what he did still made him more than worthy of the gallows.
     
    We get all hung up about legalisms introduced after WWII. The reality of the conclusions of most wars is reciprocity plus interest imposed on the losers - *any* losers. WWII was a huge exception. Leaving aside the question of atrocities, if the entire Axis populations had been butchered to the last man, woman and child, the total number would have been a fraction of the deaths on the Allied side. That's why the bellyaching on the Axis side strikes me as unmanly - they fought a war where they threw away the rule book, yet whined about infinitesimal postwar reprisals, which were, in a limited fashion, what the war crimes trials were all about.

    Replies: @Jack D, @74v56ruthiyj, @JMcG

    I really don’t hear much whining from Germany and Japan, just from unz pro-Fascists.

    Note that after WWI, there were no war crimes trials, because in WWI the Germans hadn’t thrown away the rule book to the same extent. All wars are bloody but what the Axis did in WWII was beyond the pale. I’m shocked by the people here who appear to take the Japanese side. FDR didn’t make them do human experiments or starve POWs or massacre Chinese.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    All wars are bloody but what the Axis did in WWII was beyond the pale. I’m shocked by the people here who appear to take the Japanese side. FDR didn’t make them do human experiments or starve POWs or massacre Chinese.
     
    In their defense, what they did was within both historical and Oriental norms. The average individual has heard of Julius Caesar and Alexander, but way less acquainted with the traditional custom of wiping out the men and enslaving the women and children at the conclusion of hard fought battles. In the wake of the Battle of Persian Gate, Alexander butchered the men in Persepolis, the Persian capital (and enslaved the rest), even though the inhabitants surrendered without a fight.

    https://www.livius.org/sources/content/diodorus/alexander-sacks-persepolis/

    And in the Oriental realm:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieges_of_Nagashima#Third_Siege_of_Nagashima_(1574)

    One of the (probably a double-digit number, in total, over the course of history) massacres at Nanking occurred when the reigning Ming emperor was ousted by his uncle, who was to adopt the mellifluous reign name of Everlasting Joy, aka Yongle:


    His first step was to demand the official sanction of Nanjing's political elite, in particular its most respected scholar, Fang Xiaoru.

    When the old man refused to draft a document supporting his succession, Yongle ordered his men to set about him with their swords, but Fang Xiaoru had the last word - literally.

    As he lay dying on the palace floor, he drew the Chinese character for "usurper" in his own blood.

    In retaliation for this, Yongle purged the capital of all his political opponents, killing tens of thousands of people.
     
    Another massacre at Nanking occurred in the course of the destruction of the Christian sect that attempted to overthrow the Qing dynasty:


    Zeng Guoquan (12 October 1824 – 13 November 1890), courtesy name Yuanfu, art name Shuchun, was a Chinese official and military leader of the late Qing dynasty. He was the ninth brother of Zeng Guofan, a prominent statesman and general, and a descendant of the philosopher Zengzi. He served in the Xiang Army, a standing military force organised by his brother to counter the Taiping rebels, and was nicknamed "Ninth Marshal" (九帥). He was known for his expertise in siege warfare, particularly the use of trenches, hence he was also nicknamed "Zeng the Iron Container" (曾鐵桶). During the conquest of Tianjing (Nanjing), the capital of the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, Zeng was notorious for condoning massacres of the city populace, which resulted in him being called "Zeng the Butcher" (曾屠戶).
     
    Vae victis has always been the rule in the Orient. Japanese butchery had a military purpose. The message was "surrender or die". It was very different from Nazi butchery, whose implicit message seemed to be "surrender *and* die", for disfavored groups like Slavs and Jews. Significant numbers of postwar Asian leaders had served as junior bureaucrats in the Japanese empire, including names like Lee Kuan Yew (Singapore), Park Chung-hee (ROK), Lee Teng-hui (Taiwan), Sukarno (Indonesia, Suharto (Indonesia) and Aung San (Burma).

    In an overall historical context, it's hard to criticize Japanese conduct as being somehow unique. It would be equally hard to criticize the Allies if they had put the entire Japanese population to the sword. IMHO, that is why the postwar Japanese were so grateful to the US for sparing them - they were aware that the US had kept its word and spared the conquered where many victorious Japanese warlords had not, in the past, within Japan proper.
    , @John Regan
    @Jack D


    All wars are bloody but what the Axis did in WWII was beyond the pale.
     
    What precisely would you say they did that was worse than what the Allies did? Honest question. Extra bonus points if you can mention anything that wasn't an alleged or real atrocity against Jews.

    On most scores their atrocities don't seem very exceptional in the context of their times. The Germans bombed cities, shot commissars and generally waged a harsh war in the East. The Japanese waged an even harsher war against the Chinese. But in both cases the Allies did the same things. Only on a bigger scale.

    The ethnic cleansing of Eastern Europe of ethnic Germans after World War II was literally the biggest in history. Likewise the firebombing of Japan will be unequaled until we have a real nuclear World War III. For example.


    I’m shocked by the people here who appear to take the Japanese side. FDR didn’t make them do human experiments
     
    From what I find in trying to track them down there seems to be little evidence for those except "witness testimonies" by either Chinese regime flunkies or Japanese POWs who had been brainwashed by them.

    The exact same authorities (ie Chinese regime flunkies and brainwashed US POWs) later accused the United States of similar crimes in the Korean War:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_biological_warfare_in_the_Korean_War

    Do you believe them in both cases? Or just in one? If so: Why?


    or starve POWs
     
    FDR starved the entire nation of Japan with bombing and unlimited submarine attacks against its shipping. (The exact same thing incidentally that he called piracy when the Germans did it and his minion Jackson tried to have Admiral Doenitz hanged for.) You may not know it but hundreds of thousands of Japanese (at least) starved to death because FDR stole their food.

    Schoolchildren were literally taught to try to hunt for wild frogs to eat because the government couldn't supply their families with rations they could live on. Literally.

    It wasn't nice to starve the Allied POWs but it was a perfectly natural consequence of FDR starving the Japanese. When there isn't food for your own people, is feeding enemies who hate you the top priority? Should it be? If I were a Japanese soldier I imagine I'd revolt if the government fed the Americans well while my own children starved.


    or massacre Chinese.
     
    Did the Japanese treat the Chinese any worse than the Chinese treated them? Or themselves for that matter? The Kuomintang alone killed millions not counting the excesses of the warlords. That's not going into the crimes of the Chinese communists.

    Even using the Chinese propaganda machine's own numbers the famous "Rape of Nanjing" was a rounding error compared to the domestic Chinese genocides. Yet FDR had no problem with supplying the perpetrators of those with weapons and personnel in direct violation of international law as then understood.

    Of course there were also innocent Chinese who did suffer real war crimes from the Japanese. It's sad that that happened. Just like so much else in those times. Obviously they didn't deserve that. But the selective moral outrage is tiresome.

    The whole "Good War" was one big exhibition of hypocrisy ueber alles. Matched only by the ignorant self righteousness of its latter day defenders.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jack D

    , @JMcG
    @Jack D

    What EVERYONE did in WWII was beyond the pale. We burned to death hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of completely innocent women and children. Burned little children to death in their bedrooms and basements. We killed them and the flower of England and the USA. Why? So Roosevelt and Churchill could look good to Stalin.
    Stalin, the murdering bastard who allied himself to Hitler for the first third of the war.

    Eisenhower should have forced his troops to look at the streets of Dresden right after he made them troop through Bergen-Belsen.

    , @Anonymous
    @Jack D

    There were indeed war crimes trials after WWI. This was one of the conditions of the peace treaty. However these trials were held by the Germans themselves and therefore unsurprisingly resulted in acquittals or light sentences and no executions.

  225. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    Even if Japan had causus belli, the US had no obligations...
     
    The question is not whether it was right or wrong for them to attack, but whether we goaded them into doing so. That part was unnecessary. Lindbergh was right, as was his father, and they, not FDR, belong on a coin.

    Replies: @Jack D

    I have good news for you – FDR is going off the money, because he did redlining.

    The bad news is, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad is gonna replace him, not Lindbergh.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    The bad news is, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad is gonna replace him, not Lindbergh.
     
    Let's compromise, and portray Marcus Garvey on the face. With his Black Star liner on the reverse:


    https://www.harlemworldmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/black-star-line.jpg

  226. @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    Don't feed the idiots. It's advice I should follow more often.

    Joking aside, Goering was actually pretty muscular and handsome before he went to seed in power. After the war at Nuremberg, he was put on a diet and weaned off his morphine addiction. He obviously didn't get his youthful looks back, but you can see vestiges of what he physically and mentally was before on the stand.

    (Goering stuck me as basically being a Renaissance condottiere transported 400 years in the future, NGL: when asked why he joined the Nazi Party, his answer boiled down to a desire for adventure after WWI, coupled I suppose with Hitler's unique charisma. One is tempted to wonder if Cesare Borgia would have gone down a similar path had he had access to that level of modern day hedonism.)

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Anonymous, @Chrisnonymous

    It’s telling that Göring was initially in the pro-China camp in NS Germany, along old school army aristocrats like von Blomberg, von Falkenhausen, Foreign Minister von Neurath, Reichsbank President Schacht (acquitted at Nuremberg), representing big industrialist interests.

    Whereas the pro-Japan camp was led by bozo former champagne salesman von Ribbentrop, whom Göring called “Führer’s evil spirit”.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Ribbentrop, along with Bormann, was the Nazi that all the other Nazis liked to hate. In the case of the latter, it's because he was one charged by Hitler with keeping their ambitions in check, and because he controlled access to Hitler and the inertia of the German bureaucracy.

    (That, and Bormann was a genuinely awful person, a convicted murderer who would set dogs on fire for barking at his and laugh as the animal burned to death while he forced the owners to watch. Needless to say, Hitler also found him useful for jobs that others didn't have the stomach for and that he personally didn't want to be associated with. I suspect Bormann and Stalin would have gotten along smashingly, to be honest, Bormann reminds me of the kind of petty criminal that Stalin got on well with in Siberia as opposed to the intelligentsia "rats": and really, it's tempting to draw an analogue between Bormann's role in the late Third Reich and Stalin's immediately before his rise to power.)

    Ribbentrop was different. Bormann was detested in part because he was justifiably feared. Ribbentrop was simply ridiculous-and on top of that, was clearly a galloping opportunist. Alone out of the Nazis at Nuremberg, he didn't have anything to cling to, and it showed.

  227. @Old Prude
    @obwandiyag

    Currently listening to Dan Carlin's hard core history, covering the Pacific in early '45: Horror of ground combat on Okinawa, and the fire bombing of Tokyo. The match was Pearl Harbor. The lesson is don't ever start an industrial war. The horrors of '45 will be quaint compared to what could be done today.

    Pearl Harbor should be remembered by the U.S. at this point only as a reminder that we should never start another war. Whether we started that fight or not is irrelevant today. By the end, we were incinerating hundreds of thousand civilians on a regular basis, or fighting and dying in the mud with rotting flesh, maggots and dysentery on some no account spit of land.

    I'm glad those folks got the job done, but it's not something to wish to be repeated.

    Replies: @raga10

    Pearl Harbor should be remembered by the U.S. at this point only as a reminder that we should never start another war.

    That should be the point of all war-related celebrations, but it never is… Australia for example still celebrates Anzac Day – in memory of Australian troops thrashed at Gallipoli in a poorly planned and badly executed campaign during WWI; event predating Pearl Harbour by over 20 years but still celebrated enthusiastically all over the country.

    I would be on board with such celebrations if the lesson from them was that Australia should never again stick its nose where it doesn’t belong, but sadly that is not at all the lesson Australia took from its history.

  228. @nebulafox
    @prosa123

    What I'm skeptical of is the efficacy of mixed units, largely because it's bad for combat discipline. Anybody who understands anything at all about men will understand how deeply ingrained the instinct to protect women is, even if that were to put missions at risk. I also don't need to tell you about what can happen to female POWs captured by the enemy, and the resulting impact on discipline (the men will likely seek revenge, possibly against civilians) and/or morale. If we employed the Israeli or WWII Soviet model, with women largely being in their own units, or in combat support teams when mixed with men, it'd be a different story.

    (Don't believe me? Look at how a typical man responds to a typical woman crying. We'll often do or say just about anything to get them to stop. Why? It's *biologically driven discomfort*. Many women probably feel something similar with children in a way men don't, excepting their own, for comparison's sake.)

    TBH, right now, the majority of Americans below 35 can't pass the physical tests to enlist anyway, male and female alike. I think that should be the primary problem we're all focusing on rather than questions of equity or diversity or whatever.

    Replies: @prosa123

    I strongly suspect that male protective instincts toward women are situation-dependent. While a typical man might feel compelled to come to the aid of a woman whom another man is harassing in a nightclub – though that might be in part because he thinks he can score with her – I highly doubt that’ll be a factor if they’re fighting for their lives alongside each other against a strong determined enemy, for example in a Normandy-style invasion of Iran or a newly fundamentalist Turkey. This is especially true if the woman has shown herself to be a tough fighter, the equal of any man.

    As for all-female combat units, I would reluctantly support the idea if indeed cohesion of mixed units became an issue, but only so long as the female units have the same risk of death as the male units.

    • Replies: @74v56ruthiyj
    @prosa123

    In 1948, after two weeks of fighting, the Israelis pulled women out of combat. They weren't sure that they'd survive, but the women were so obviously detrimental they figured they rather have fewer trigger pullers than have female trigger pullers.

    , @nebulafox
    @prosa123

    You think wrong. Basic training is what it is in order to erase fundamentally ingrained societal attitudes that are not compatible with war. Those are socially ingrained imperatives such as "thou shalt not kill", not biological ones, which gender issues are. Nothing can truly erase those. At best, you can suppress them under extreme conditions (there's a reason most men in Auschwitz or Yodok did not think much about sex), but you can't truly reprogram them. As our current society shows, they'll just manifest under different ways if you make expressing them normally taboo.

    Look, the Israelis have managed to do a lot that most developed nations haven't, including giving equal rights to women without destroying the birth rate. Maybe we should pay attention to what they do. Women serve in the IDF. Some die. They don't die in near the same numbers as men, though, and usually don't serve in the same front line combat units alongside men-again, all female units, or mixed combat support units. There are reasons for that. They might know what they are doing. Suppose the Palestinians got their hands of a woman IDF soldier, and do what non-Genevaized soldiers usually like to do with captive women from a people who they understandably hate. That could lead to ugly consequences for everybody involved.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  229. @Moses
    @American Citizen

    I've said it before and I'll say it again -- Non-Whites do not care one iota for White American history. Not one bit.

    It's not their history. Why should they care about it?

    Replies: @JMcG, @Jack D, @Richard B

    Why should they care about it?

    You ask the question as if it can’t be answered. But of course it can be.

    They should care because they’ve benefitted from it. Obviously. It’s also hypocritcal for them not to since they’re demanding that whites value them unconditionally, not just because of some fantasy interpretation of their past, but simply because they’re them.

    On the other hand, it’s also true that not a few whites could care less about White American history. Then again, Radical Ingratitude is one of the primary attributes of the masses of any color.

    • Agree: American Citizen
  230. @Jack D
    First of all, it's Emmett, not Emmitt, and 2nd, a little 1 column inch box down at the bottom of the page, while technically "making the 1st page", barely counts.

    TBH, Pearl Harbor happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Japan is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, China, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as.... the death of Emmett Till.

    Pearl Harbor reshaped the life of a generation. Before Pearl Harbor, my mother in law (still kicking at 99) had never traveled beyond 100 miles from her birthplace. Within a couple of years she was following her husband's military postings all across America - to the Deep South, to the Pacific Northwest, etc. Before Pearl Harbor, almost everyone she knew was Jewish and lived in her little Jewish neighborhood. Afterward, she became lifelong friends with a Mexican-American family from California and met people of all backgrounds and religions. Before, her work experience was working in small Jewish owned businesses. Afterward, she worked as a draftsman for a major American corporation that had not generally hired Jews before the war. In short, life was never the same. For better or worse, the little ethnic enclaves that dotted our cities were never the same again. After the war, she and her husband got a VA mortgage and moved out to a former potato field along with people of all sorts of backgrounds while her old neighborhood turned black. But that was a long time ago. How did Pearl Harbor influence my kids' life? Not much.

    Maybe Till's death should also be a dead letter but apparently it isn't. Historical memory is always selective - the CCP talks more about the Opium Wars than it does about the Cultural Revolution or the Tiananmen Square Massacre. For better or for worse, the relationship between Black America and White America is more of a live issue than the relationship between America and Japan.

    Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3, @AndrewR, @Buffalo Joe, @Chrisnonymous, @Ron Mexico, @epebble, @Dave Pinsen, @obwandiyag, @obwandiyag, @Moses, @Richard B

    Historical memory is always selective

    For a reason. Memory is selective. Obviously!

    In fact, there’s no such thing as Memory. There’s just remembering. And that most definitely is selective. But what determines that selectiveness? Our interests. Of course.

    Still, it is true that some remembering is a lot more selective than others, especially when it comes to History, or, to be more precise, our historical interests.

    A perfect example would be your comment.

  231. @Moses
    @Jack D

    Lol. Indulge me in a little thought exercise, courtesy Jack.


    TBH, the Holocaust happened 80 years ago. It is beyond the living memory of all but a handful of elderly people. It is increasingly a matter of ancient history. Germany is now our friend and ally. Our then ally, Russia, is now our biggest threat. It is less and less relevant to our future than more recent events such as…. the death of Emmett Till.
     
    Pretty sure Jack would call the above "anti-semitic". Amirite Jack?

    I guess some contemporaneous historical events are more ancient history than others, if you know what I mean.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Richard B

    Of course the big difference between those two historical events is that we can prove Pearl Harbor happened. Oh, that and the fact that it’s ok to question its value as an historical event and discuss it from a number of different perspectives.

  232. @Jack D
    @nebulafox

    By (abysmally low) Nazi standards he was more cultivated and less personally anti-Semitic than most. But what he did still made him more than worthy of the gallows.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @nebulafox

    That wasn’t the point I had in mind, but since we are on the topic… He was diagnosed as a sociopath at Nuremberg. This meant that he was literally not neurologically capable of caring all that much about ideology. Doesn’t say much about morality when your brain doesn’t have the chemistry to do that.

    (YMMV, but I do not think Hitler himself was a sociopath. I have my own theories about him. While he did have an extreme lack of empathy for those he wanted to kill, that hardly made him unique in radical politics, especially when that cross that demographic with WWI vets who had to emotionally desensitize themselves to keep sane during the conflict. But he really just didn’t tick off many of the boxes for sociopathy.)

    Beria didn’t care much for the ideological tenets of Communism over in the USSR. He even advocated the restoration of private property. While he was never tested, he basically fit the definition of sociopathy to a T. The dude was exceedingly evil-a serial rapist who enjoyed torturing people personally-but also genuinely advocates better relations with the West. Precisely because he couldn’t take Communism seriously, he saw in a way Stalin never did that the USSR was unlikely to win the Cold War if it dragged on long enough.

    Sociopaths are very dangerous, especially since they cannot be changed. But on the whole, they are not the worst case scenario. Close to it, but compared to the true believers, I will take the sociopath any time.

  233. @Jack D
    @Johann Ricke

    I really don't hear much whining from Germany and Japan, just from unz pro-Fascists.

    Note that after WWI, there were no war crimes trials, because in WWI the Germans hadn't thrown away the rule book to the same extent. All wars are bloody but what the Axis did in WWII was beyond the pale. I'm shocked by the people here who appear to take the Japanese side. FDR didn't make them do human experiments or starve POWs or massacre Chinese.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @John Regan, @JMcG, @Anonymous

    All wars are bloody but what the Axis did in WWII was beyond the pale. I’m shocked by the people here who appear to take the Japanese side. FDR didn’t make them do human experiments or starve POWs or massacre Chinese.

    In their defense, what they did was within both historical and Oriental norms. The average individual has heard of Julius Caesar and Alexander, but way less acquainted with the traditional custom of wiping out the men and enslaving the women and children at the conclusion of hard fought battles. In the wake of the Battle of Persian Gate, Alexander butchered the men in Persepolis, the Persian capital (and enslaved the rest), even though the inhabitants surrendered without a fight.

    https://www.livius.org/sources/content/diodorus/alexander-sacks-persepolis/

    And in the Oriental realm:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieges_of_Nagashima#Third_Siege_of_Nagashima_(1574)

    One of the (probably a double-digit number, in total, over the course of history) massacres at Nanking occurred when the reigning Ming emperor was ousted by his uncle, who was to adopt the mellifluous reign name of Everlasting Joy, aka Yongle:

    His first step was to demand the official sanction of Nanjing’s political elite, in particular its most respected scholar, Fang Xiaoru.

    When the old man refused to draft a document supporting his succession, Yongle ordered his men to set about him with their swords, but Fang Xiaoru had the last word – literally.

    As he lay dying on the palace floor, he drew the Chinese character for “usurper” in his own blood.

    In retaliation for this, Yongle purged the capital of all his political opponents, killing tens of thousands of people.

    Another massacre at Nanking occurred in the course of the destruction of the Christian sect that attempted to overthrow the Qing dynasty:

    Zeng Guoquan (12 October 1824 – 13 November 1890), courtesy name Yuanfu, art name Shuchun, was a Chinese official and military leader of the late Qing dynasty. He was the ninth brother of Zeng Guofan, a prominent statesman and general, and a descendant of the philosopher Zengzi. He served in the Xiang Army, a standing military force organised by his brother to counter the Taiping rebels, and was nicknamed “Ninth Marshal” (九帥). He was known for his expertise in siege warfare, particularly the use of trenches, hence he was also nicknamed “Zeng the Iron Container” (曾鐵桶). During the conquest of Tianjing (Nanjing), the capital of the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, Zeng was notorious for condoning massacres of the city populace, which resulted in him being called “Zeng the Butcher” (曾屠戶).

    Vae victis has always been the rule in the Orient. Japanese butchery had a military purpose. The message was “surrender or die”. It was very different from Nazi butchery, whose implicit message seemed to be “surrender *and* die”, for disfavored groups like Slavs and Jews. Significant numbers of postwar Asian leaders had served as junior bureaucrats in the Japanese empire, including names like Lee Kuan Yew (Singapore), Park Chung-hee (ROK), Lee Teng-hui (Taiwan), Sukarno (Indonesia, Suharto (Indonesia) and Aung San (Burma).

    In an overall historical context, it’s hard to criticize Japanese conduct as being somehow unique. It would be equally hard to criticize the Allies if they had put the entire Japanese population to the sword. IMHO, that is why the postwar Japanese were so grateful to the US for sparing them – they were aware that the US had kept its word and spared the conquered where many victorious Japanese warlords had not, in the past, within Japan proper.

    • Thanks: Almost Missouri
  234. “Those Were the Days” host Steve Darnell has created a WW 2 music channel.

  235. @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    By (abysmally low) Nazi standards he was more cultivated and less personally anti-Semitic than most. But what he did still made him more than worthy of the gallows.
     
    We get all hung up about legalisms introduced after WWII. The reality of the conclusions of most wars is reciprocity plus interest imposed on the losers - *any* losers. WWII was a huge exception. Leaving aside the question of atrocities, if the entire Axis populations had been butchered to the last man, woman and child, the total number would have been a fraction of the deaths on the Allied side. That's why the bellyaching on the Axis side strikes me as unmanly - they fought a war where they threw away the rule book, yet whined about infinitesimal postwar reprisals, which were, in a limited fashion, what the war crimes trials were all about.

    Replies: @Jack D, @74v56ruthiyj, @JMcG

    The entire Axis populations would add up to 200 million plus. You’re saying that the Allies lost more than 200 million?

  236. @prosa123
    @nebulafox

    I strongly suspect that male protective instincts toward women are situation-dependent. While a typical man might feel compelled to come to the aid of a woman whom another man is harassing in a nightclub - though that might be in part because he thinks he can score with her - I highly doubt that'll be a factor if they're fighting for their lives alongside each other against a strong determined enemy, for example in a Normandy-style invasion of Iran or a newly fundamentalist Turkey. This is especially true if the woman has shown herself to be a tough fighter, the equal of any man.

    As for all-female combat units, I would reluctantly support the idea if indeed cohesion of mixed units became an issue, but only so long as the female units have the same risk of death as the male units.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj, @nebulafox

    In 1948, after two weeks of fighting, the Israelis pulled women out of combat. They weren’t sure that they’d survive, but the women were so obviously detrimental they figured they rather have fewer trigger pullers than have female trigger pullers.

  237. @JimDandy
    @Sparkon

    It's interesting that they hired a demented psycho hillbilly with no actual experience to be the hangman. He botched the fuck out of many of those executions--kept 'em dangling in agony for long periods of time, and even had to go behind the curtain and yank on one of them to end it, apparently. Military ineptitude? Or deliberately orchestrated by players driven by sadistic unquenchable vengeance?

    Replies: @Jack D

    Really? You feel sorry for these monsters who cause the death of millions? Couldn’t you save your sympathy for Pol Pot or for John Wayne Gacy?

    They should have gotten these guys – they were highly experienced and knew how to provide service with a smile:

    Or maybe these guys:

    or these:

    or these:

    This guy has a different technique:

    This one preferred ladies:

    I could go on and on. Do you understand what it means to have been responsible for the deaths of MILLIONS of humans?

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @Jack D

    Hahaha! Thanks--laughter is an instant vacation. You really think you can get away with putting words in my mouth when it's all there in black and white? The pretense of Nuremberg was that we were the civilized humanitarians punishing sadistic atrocities and the breakage of rules of war. Anyone who wants to know what I actually wrote can go back and look at my comment.

    As for your intro to your personal stash of genocide-porn:

    "They should have gotten these guys – they were highly experienced and knew how to provide service with a smile:"

    My retort was going to be that they should have gotten these guys. But then I remembered that, in essence, they probably did.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Hanged_sergeants.jpg

    The Sergeants Affair

    Replies: @JMcG

    , @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    I suspect it's a lot easier for the majority of human beings to be responsible for the death of millions or even dozens of people than just one. If you are doing it in person, you become numb, and for some, learn to enjoy killing. If you are doing it from a distance, you become accustomed to thinking of it as necessary minutiae.

    There's a real dark streak in humanity that people underestimate if their lives are soft enough. It's not all our nature, but it's a real part of it.

    Replies: @Jack D

  238. @JMcG
    @Moses

    I’ve spent some time at the Gettysburg Battlefield. I’ve never seen an adult black there. Some kids on field trips, maybe, but never an adult or family. You’re right, they couldn’t care less.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    • LOL: JMcG, Captain Tripps
    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    @Dave Pinsen

    I didn't know that Larry David was a Southern neo-Confederate--a neo-con, by God!

  239. @Jack D
    @Johann Ricke

    I really don't hear much whining from Germany and Japan, just from unz pro-Fascists.

    Note that after WWI, there were no war crimes trials, because in WWI the Germans hadn't thrown away the rule book to the same extent. All wars are bloody but what the Axis did in WWII was beyond the pale. I'm shocked by the people here who appear to take the Japanese side. FDR didn't make them do human experiments or starve POWs or massacre Chinese.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @John Regan, @JMcG, @Anonymous

    All wars are bloody but what the Axis did in WWII was beyond the pale.

    What precisely would you say they did that was worse than what the Allies did? Honest question. Extra bonus points if you can mention anything that wasn’t an alleged or real atrocity against Jews.

    On most scores their atrocities don’t seem very exceptional in the context of their times. The Germans bombed cities, shot commissars and generally waged a harsh war in the East. The Japanese waged an even harsher war against the Chinese. But in both cases the Allies did the same things. Only on a bigger scale.

    The ethnic cleansing of Eastern Europe of ethnic Germans after World War II was literally the biggest in history. Likewise the firebombing of Japan will be unequaled until we have a real nuclear World War III. For example.

    I’m shocked by the people here who appear to take the Japanese side. FDR didn’t make them do human experiments

    From what I find in trying to track them down there seems to be little evidence for those except “witness testimonies” by either Chinese regime flunkies or Japanese POWs who had been brainwashed by them.

    The exact same authorities (ie Chinese regime flunkies and brainwashed US POWs) later accused the United States of similar crimes in the Korean War:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_biological_warfare_in_the_Korean_War

    Do you believe them in both cases? Or just in one? If so: Why?

    or starve POWs

    FDR starved the entire nation of Japan with bombing and unlimited submarine attacks against its shipping. (The exact same thing incidentally that he called piracy when the Germans did it and his minion Jackson tried to have Admiral Doenitz hanged for.) You may not know it but hundreds of thousands of Japanese (at least) starved to death because FDR stole their food.

    Schoolchildren were literally taught to try to hunt for wild frogs to eat because the government couldn’t supply their families with rations they could live on. Literally.

    It wasn’t nice to starve the Allied POWs but it was a perfectly natural consequence of FDR starving the Japanese. When there isn’t food for your own people, is feeding enemies who hate you the top priority? Should it be? If I were a Japanese soldier I imagine I’d revolt if the government fed the Americans well while my own children starved.

    or massacre Chinese.

    Did the Japanese treat the Chinese any worse than the Chinese treated them? Or themselves for that matter? The Kuomintang alone killed millions not counting the excesses of the warlords. That’s not going into the crimes of the Chinese communists.

    Even using the Chinese propaganda machine’s own numbers the famous “Rape of Nanjing” was a rounding error compared to the domestic Chinese genocides. Yet FDR had no problem with supplying the perpetrators of those with weapons and personnel in direct violation of international law as then understood.

    Of course there were also innocent Chinese who did suffer real war crimes from the Japanese. It’s sad that that happened. Just like so much else in those times. Obviously they didn’t deserve that. But the selective moral outrage is tiresome.

    The whole “Good War” was one big exhibition of hypocrisy ueber alles. Matched only by the ignorant self righteousness of its latter day defenders.

    • Agree: JMcG
    • Thanks: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @John Regan

    "What precisely would you say they did that was worse than what the Allies did?"

    Start the war?

    Replies: @John Regan, @Sam Malone

    , @Jack D
    @John Regan


    Extra bonus points if you can mention anything that wasn’t an alleged or real atrocity against Jews.
     
    OK, then I'll mention the Poles.

    https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/2000926-Poles.pdf


    In addition to 3 million Jewish Polish citizens, another 3 million non-Jewish (mostly Catholic) Polish citizens were murdered by the Nazis.

    There is NOTHING, and I mean nothing comparable in all of history to the death factories that the Nazis built in Poland. If that is all they did (and in fact they did much much more, all over Europe) that alone would put them on a different plane that the US. There is no American Auschwitz, not even close. Never has been and never will be. If you can't see the difference in quality and quantity between what the Americans did and what the Nazis did it's because you don't want to see.

    Replies: @Dube, @ic1000

  240. @Jack D
    @JimDandy

    Really? You feel sorry for these monsters who cause the death of millions? Couldn't you save your sympathy for Pol Pot or for John Wayne Gacy?

    They should have gotten these guys - they were highly experienced and knew how to provide service with a smile:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Public_execution_in_German-occupied_Poland.jpg

    Or maybe these guys:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/The_Black_Book_of_Poland_%2821%E2%80%9324%29.jpg

    or these:

    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/images/large/a86be095-cd4f-40f0-8743-18a0dd19be08.jpg.pagespeed.ce.-d1r8scleh.jpg

    or these:

    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/images/large/7643e3d0-5936-4e0b-be39-9e8cd7782dcc.jpg.pagespeed.ce.2j-Ddxo6vl.jpg

    This guy has a different technique:

    https://ghb67.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/pole-hanging-dachau.jpg

    This one preferred ladies:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Public_execution_of_54_Poles_in_Ro%C5%BCki_%281942%29.jpg

    I could go on and on. Do you understand what it means to have been responsible for the deaths of MILLIONS of humans?

    Replies: @JimDandy, @nebulafox

    Hahaha! Thanks–laughter is an instant vacation. You really think you can get away with putting words in my mouth when it’s all there in black and white? The pretense of Nuremberg was that we were the civilized humanitarians punishing sadistic atrocities and the breakage of rules of war. Anyone who wants to know what I actually wrote can go back and look at my comment.

    As for your intro to your personal stash of genocide-porn:

    “They should have gotten these guys – they were highly experienced and knew how to provide service with a smile:”

    My retort was going to be that they should have gotten these guys. But then I remembered that, in essence, they probably did.

    The Sergeants Affair

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @JimDandy

    Holy hell. Hey never heard about that before. Nice way to treat the soldiers of a nation that just defeated Nazi Germany.

  241. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @nebulafox

    It's telling that Göring was initially in the pro-China camp in NS Germany, along old school army aristocrats like von Blomberg, von Falkenhausen, Foreign Minister von Neurath, Reichsbank President Schacht (acquitted at Nuremberg), representing big industrialist interests.

    Whereas the pro-Japan camp was led by bozo former champagne salesman von Ribbentrop, whom Göring called "Führer's evil spirit".

    Replies: @nebulafox

    Ribbentrop, along with Bormann, was the Nazi that all the other Nazis liked to hate. In the case of the latter, it’s because he was one charged by Hitler with keeping their ambitions in check, and because he controlled access to Hitler and the inertia of the German bureaucracy.

    (That, and Bormann was a genuinely awful person, a convicted murderer who would set dogs on fire for barking at his and laugh as the animal burned to death while he forced the owners to watch. Needless to say, Hitler also found him useful for jobs that others didn’t have the stomach for and that he personally didn’t want to be associated with. I suspect Bormann and Stalin would have gotten along smashingly, to be honest, Bormann reminds me of the kind of petty criminal that Stalin got on well with in Siberia as opposed to the intelligentsia “rats”: and really, it’s tempting to draw an analogue between Bormann’s role in the late Third Reich and Stalin’s immediately before his rise to power.)

    Ribbentrop was different. Bormann was detested in part because he was justifiably feared. Ribbentrop was simply ridiculous-and on top of that, was clearly a galloping opportunist. Alone out of the Nazis at Nuremberg, he didn’t have anything to cling to, and it showed.

  242. @Jack D
    @JimDandy

    Really? You feel sorry for these monsters who cause the death of millions? Couldn't you save your sympathy for Pol Pot or for John Wayne Gacy?

    They should have gotten these guys - they were highly experienced and knew how to provide service with a smile:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Public_execution_in_German-occupied_Poland.jpg

    Or maybe these guys:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/The_Black_Book_of_Poland_%2821%E2%80%9324%29.jpg

    or these:

    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/images/large/a86be095-cd4f-40f0-8743-18a0dd19be08.jpg.pagespeed.ce.-d1r8scleh.jpg

    or these:

    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/images/large/7643e3d0-5936-4e0b-be39-9e8cd7782dcc.jpg.pagespeed.ce.2j-Ddxo6vl.jpg

    This guy has a different technique:

    https://ghb67.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/pole-hanging-dachau.jpg

    This one preferred ladies:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Public_execution_of_54_Poles_in_Ro%C5%BCki_%281942%29.jpg

    I could go on and on. Do you understand what it means to have been responsible for the deaths of MILLIONS of humans?

    Replies: @JimDandy, @nebulafox

    I suspect it’s a lot easier for the majority of human beings to be responsible for the death of millions or even dozens of people than just one. If you are doing it in person, you become numb, and for some, learn to enjoy killing. If you are doing it from a distance, you become accustomed to thinking of it as necessary minutiae.

    There’s a real dark streak in humanity that people underestimate if their lives are soft enough. It’s not all our nature, but it’s a real part of it.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @nebulafox

    Sure, I understand the dark streak in humanity that would lead a Nazi to become a war criminal. But what in hell would make JimDandy feel more sorry for the murderers than for their millions of victims?

    Replies: @John Regan

  243. @prosa123
    @nebulafox

    I strongly suspect that male protective instincts toward women are situation-dependent. While a typical man might feel compelled to come to the aid of a woman whom another man is harassing in a nightclub - though that might be in part because he thinks he can score with her - I highly doubt that'll be a factor if they're fighting for their lives alongside each other against a strong determined enemy, for example in a Normandy-style invasion of Iran or a newly fundamentalist Turkey. This is especially true if the woman has shown herself to be a tough fighter, the equal of any man.

    As for all-female combat units, I would reluctantly support the idea if indeed cohesion of mixed units became an issue, but only so long as the female units have the same risk of death as the male units.

    Replies: @74v56ruthiyj, @nebulafox

    You think wrong. Basic training is what it is in order to erase fundamentally ingrained societal attitudes that are not compatible with war. Those are socially ingrained imperatives such as “thou shalt not kill”, not biological ones, which gender issues are. Nothing can truly erase those. At best, you can suppress them under extreme conditions (there’s a reason most men in Auschwitz or Yodok did not think much about sex), but you can’t truly reprogram them. As our current society shows, they’ll just manifest under different ways if you make expressing them normally taboo.

    Look, the Israelis have managed to do a lot that most developed nations haven’t, including giving equal rights to women without destroying the birth rate. Maybe we should pay attention to what they do. Women serve in the IDF. Some die. They don’t die in near the same numbers as men, though, and usually don’t serve in the same front line combat units alongside men-again, all female units, or mixed combat support units. There are reasons for that. They might know what they are doing. Suppose the Palestinians got their hands of a woman IDF soldier, and do what non-Genevaized soldiers usually like to do with captive women from a people who they understandably hate. That could lead to ugly consequences for everybody involved.

    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @nebulafox


    Women serve in the IDF. Some die. They don’t die in near the same numbers as men, though, and usually don’t serve in the same front line combat units
     
    Their terms are shorter. Combat duty is optional, and rarely sought. There is a draft exemption for Haredi women, and married women have a way out. (Ask Bar Rafaeli, or Debbie Schlussel about that.)

    ...including giving equal rights to women
     
    But not equal responsibilities. That would interfere with their primary one:

    ...without destroying the birth rate.
     
  244. @John Regan
    @Jack D


    There was no blockade. Any other country willing to do so could supply Japan. There was an embargo, meaning that we wouldn’t do so any more. There is nothing illegal about an embargo.
     
    It's true that waging sneaky economic war was not illegal in 1941. But neither was waging an honest war by military means. Only Tojo got hanged for that anyway because our rulers don't care about morality or law except to use them as another club to beat down anyone who resists them.

    FDR colluded with the British (and the Dutch puppet government in their hands) to cut off all oil supplies for Japan. There literally was no one else who could supply them. He'd made sure of it. Don't take my word for it but do read the book "Bankrupting the Enemy" which has already been mentioned in this thread.

    This while he was at the same time supplying weapons and personnel (the "Flying Tigers") to Japan's enemy China. Hmmm.

    Here is a nice little article published only days ago with a good list of suggestions for further reading for anyone who's interested. The author's New Left perspective has some blind spots here and there but he is pretty much on the right track:

    https://www.greanvillepost.com/2021/12/06/pearl-harbor-a-surprise-attack/

    In short: The choice the bad guys gave to the Japanese in 1941 was: Become a colony or die. Even though they lost and became a colony anyway I'm glad for their sake that they at least chose to fight for their future before submitting.


    The embargo came only after Japan had taken a series of agressive steps including allying with Nazi Germany, securing neutrality from Stalin and occupying Indochina, which put it at the doorstep of the Phillipines. Japan had not yet declared war against the US but they were clearly preparing the battlefield and we would have been idiots to sell them the rope that they needed to hang us with (in Lenin’s words).
     
    In the later half of 1941 FDR was placing heavy bombers in the Philippines and gloating with his fellow war criminals Stimson and Morgenthau about how they'd be able to firebomb Tokyo to cinders once they were in place. If we are using some preemptive war argument Japan had far more justice on its side on this angle too.

    Japan of course, was in no possible way threatening the continental United States.

    See especially the book on the list, "Preventive Strike" by Alan Armstrong. The author is an anti Japanese triumphalist who thinks a sneak attack on Japan would have been a good thing and laments that Japan got the drop on the bombers in the Philippines first. But his facts are real enough.


    At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis claimed that they were just following orders. At Jussie Smollett’s trial, he claimed that he was attacked and had nothing to do with setting it up. You can claim all you want but a lie is still a lie.
     
    A lie is a lie. But the liars in 1941 were FDR and his minions. And the liars today are the people who defend them.

    Replies: @David Davenport

    FDR colluded with the British (and the Dutch puppet government in their hands) to cut off all oil supplies for Japan. There literally was no one else who could supply them. He’d made sure of it. Don’t take my word for it but do read the book “Bankrupting the Enemy” which has already been mentioned in this thread.

    This while he was at the same time supplying weapons and personnel (the “Flying Tigers”) to Japan’s enemy China. Hmmm.

    So what?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @David Davenport

    It's almost as if FDR didn't want Japan to conquer and enslave China.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  245. @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    I suspect it's a lot easier for the majority of human beings to be responsible for the death of millions or even dozens of people than just one. If you are doing it in person, you become numb, and for some, learn to enjoy killing. If you are doing it from a distance, you become accustomed to thinking of it as necessary minutiae.

    There's a real dark streak in humanity that people underestimate if their lives are soft enough. It's not all our nature, but it's a real part of it.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Sure, I understand the dark streak in humanity that would lead a Nazi to become a war criminal. But what in hell would make JimDandy feel more sorry for the murderers than for their millions of victims?

    • Troll: JimDandy
    • Replies: @John Regan
    @Jack D

    Perhaps it's a who/whom thing.

    For example you seem to be a lot more angry yourself about the millions who were killed by the Nuremberg Nazis than the millions who were killed by Churchill and FDR and Stalin and their minions. Presumably because you identify more closely with the victims of the Nazis than with those of the latter.

    Or do you think the war criminals Henry Stimson and Henry Morgenthau (for example) should have been hanged as well? Is it disrespect for their millions of victims not to be angry that they both escaped the gallows and died peacefully? While (for example) Joachim von Ribbentrop was hanged and Rudolf Hess died in prison.

    Should Arthur Hays Sulzberger have been hanged for his warmongering hate propaganda in the New York Times like Julius Streicher was for his in Der Stuermer? In that case neither man killed anyone himself. They only incited others to do so.

    In my opinion the only just thing would have been to hang the (alleged or real) war criminals on both sides OR neither. Of course I also realize that this would have been politically impossible in 1945 with the American public riled up with years of hate propaganda against Germany and Japan. But morality and politics are very often quite different things.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JimDandy, @Jack D

  246. @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    I have good news for you - FDR is going off the money, because he did redlining.

    The bad news is, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad is gonna replace him, not Lindbergh.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The bad news is, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad is gonna replace him, not Lindbergh.

    Let’s compromise, and portray Marcus Garvey on the face. With his Black Star liner on the reverse:

  247. @James Braxton
    @Muggles

    All valid points, but were the Philippines, etc. worth 400,000 American lives?

    Replies: @JMcG

    No. What has become of the United States isn’t worth 400,000 American lives either.

  248. @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    By (abysmally low) Nazi standards he was more cultivated and less personally anti-Semitic than most. But what he did still made him more than worthy of the gallows.
     
    We get all hung up about legalisms introduced after WWII. The reality of the conclusions of most wars is reciprocity plus interest imposed on the losers - *any* losers. WWII was a huge exception. Leaving aside the question of atrocities, if the entire Axis populations had been butchered to the last man, woman and child, the total number would have been a fraction of the deaths on the Allied side. That's why the bellyaching on the Axis side strikes me as unmanly - they fought a war where they threw away the rule book, yet whined about infinitesimal postwar reprisals, which were, in a limited fashion, what the war crimes trials were all about.

    Replies: @Jack D, @74v56ruthiyj, @JMcG

    What are you counting as deaths on the allied side?

  249. @Jack D
    @Johann Ricke

    I really don't hear much whining from Germany and Japan, just from unz pro-Fascists.

    Note that after WWI, there were no war crimes trials, because in WWI the Germans hadn't thrown away the rule book to the same extent. All wars are bloody but what the Axis did in WWII was beyond the pale. I'm shocked by the people here who appear to take the Japanese side. FDR didn't make them do human experiments or starve POWs or massacre Chinese.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @John Regan, @JMcG, @Anonymous

    What EVERYONE did in WWII was beyond the pale. We burned to death hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of completely innocent women and children. Burned little children to death in their bedrooms and basements. We killed them and the flower of England and the USA. Why? So Roosevelt and Churchill could look good to Stalin.
    Stalin, the murdering bastard who allied himself to Hitler for the first third of the war.

    Eisenhower should have forced his troops to look at the streets of Dresden right after he made them troop through Bergen-Belsen.

  250. @Jack D
    @nebulafox

    Sure, I understand the dark streak in humanity that would lead a Nazi to become a war criminal. But what in hell would make JimDandy feel more sorry for the murderers than for their millions of victims?

    Replies: @John Regan

    Perhaps it’s a who/whom thing.

    For example you seem to be a lot more angry yourself about the millions who were killed by the Nuremberg Nazis than the millions who were killed by Churchill and FDR and Stalin and their minions. Presumably because you identify more closely with the victims of the Nazis than with those of the latter.

    Or do you think the war criminals Henry Stimson and Henry Morgenthau (for example) should have been hanged as well? Is it disrespect for their millions of victims not to be angry that they both escaped the gallows and died peacefully? While (for example) Joachim von Ribbentrop was hanged and Rudolf Hess died in prison.

    Should Arthur Hays Sulzberger have been hanged for his warmongering hate propaganda in the New York Times like Julius Streicher was for his in Der Stuermer? In that case neither man killed anyone himself. They only incited others to do so.

    In my opinion the only just thing would have been to hang the (alleged or real) war criminals on both sides OR neither. Of course I also realize that this would have been politically impossible in 1945 with the American public riled up with years of hate propaganda against Germany and Japan. But morality and politics are very often quite different things.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @John Regan

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0

    , @JimDandy
    @John Regan

    Excellent response. I wrote a pretty good one, too. I promise. It would have come across as snappier if it posted right when I wrote it, instead of sitting interminably in purgatory, but, hey.

    Replies: @John Regan

    , @Jack D
    @John Regan

    I think even if you were a Martian you would be able to see that Sulzberger and Streicher were not on the same plane, but if you are an American and not a Nazi, it should really be a no-brainer. You really can't see any difference in morality between Americans and Nazis? Would you really have preferred or been indifferent to a Nazi victory?

  251. @Dan Hayes
    @Reg Cæsar

    Thanks. Until now I had not known that there ever was a "Brooklyn Dodgers" professional football team!

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Reg Cæsar

    It goes to show that pro football was a minor-league sport until the late 50’s, with the Big 3 being baseball, boxing, and horse racing. The Dodgers played in the NFL 1930-1945, at which point they left to join the AAFC, the league that hosted the Cleveland Browns.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @ScarletNumber

    Thanks. My impression was that TV made professional football a major "big time" sport. Beforehand football was college football!

  252. @nebulafox
    @prosa123

    You think wrong. Basic training is what it is in order to erase fundamentally ingrained societal attitudes that are not compatible with war. Those are socially ingrained imperatives such as "thou shalt not kill", not biological ones, which gender issues are. Nothing can truly erase those. At best, you can suppress them under extreme conditions (there's a reason most men in Auschwitz or Yodok did not think much about sex), but you can't truly reprogram them. As our current society shows, they'll just manifest under different ways if you make expressing them normally taboo.

    Look, the Israelis have managed to do a lot that most developed nations haven't, including giving equal rights to women without destroying the birth rate. Maybe we should pay attention to what they do. Women serve in the IDF. Some die. They don't die in near the same numbers as men, though, and usually don't serve in the same front line combat units alongside men-again, all female units, or mixed combat support units. There are reasons for that. They might know what they are doing. Suppose the Palestinians got their hands of a woman IDF soldier, and do what non-Genevaized soldiers usually like to do with captive women from a people who they understandably hate. That could lead to ugly consequences for everybody involved.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Women serve in the IDF. Some die. They don’t die in near the same numbers as men, though, and usually don’t serve in the same front line combat units

    Their terms are shorter. Combat duty is optional, and rarely sought. There is a draft exemption for Haredi women, and married women have a way out. (Ask Bar Rafaeli, or Debbie Schlussel about that.)

    …including giving equal rights to women

    But not equal responsibilities. That would interfere with their primary one:

    …without destroying the birth rate.

  253. @David Davenport
    @John Regan

    FDR colluded with the British (and the Dutch puppet government in their hands) to cut off all oil supplies for Japan. There literally was no one else who could supply them. He’d made sure of it. Don’t take my word for it but do read the book “Bankrupting the Enemy” which has already been mentioned in this thread.

    This while he was at the same time supplying weapons and personnel (the “Flying Tigers”) to Japan’s enemy China. Hmmm.


    So what?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    It’s almost as if FDR didn’t want Japan to conquer and enslave China.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    It’s almost as if FDR didn’t want Japan to conquer and enslave China.
     
    So Mao could later.

    Anyway, it wasn't our job, or business. God gave us oceans for a reason.

  254. @Dan Hayes
    @Reg Cæsar

    Thanks. Until now I had not known that there ever was a "Brooklyn Dodgers" professional football team!

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Reg Cæsar

    Until now I had not known that there ever was a “Brooklyn Dodgers” professional football team!

    There were also the New York Yankees and Boston Braves, the latter becoming the Redskins upon moving from Braves Field to Fenway. The Steelers were the Pirates their first season.

    Toronto’s AAA baseball team was the Maple Leafs.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @Reg Cæsar

    Sincere Thanks! Another example of the UR being a veritable treasure trove of information.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  255. @Steve Sailer
    @David Davenport

    It's almost as if FDR didn't want Japan to conquer and enslave China.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    It’s almost as if FDR didn’t want Japan to conquer and enslave China.

    So Mao could later.

    Anyway, it wasn’t our job, or business. God gave us oceans for a reason.

    • Agree: JMcG
  256. Decades ago, the gf told me, “I have an admirer,” a Japanese man, and that he was coming over for an occasion at the house where she lived with her lovely sisters. This did not entirely surprise me, for gf had a sort of western version of Japanese beauty, with black hair and dramatic dark lashes. I had ample confidence, as sometimes is the case, and so entered the scene with courtesy and curiosity.

    There was plenty of gentlemanly courtesy in flex that afternoon. He was masculine in the Japanese somatotype, with a disciplined edge of animal wildness that he played as in some WWII movie. He’d brought a countryman along as assistant, a manservant, who quietly attended him, rising to light cigarettes and perform social chores when the samurai would actually snap his fingers and point. The servant was not a big man but had well-muscled arms and good shoulders.

    The conversation was intelligent and civil enough, except that he turned it several times into a reckoning over the old accusation, “sneaky Japanese,” which he’d indulge in intoning with intensity and narrowed eyes directly on me, and leaning forward for my response – which I would not grant, since I’d won the war long before by collecting cans and scrap paper in my coaster wagon in Detroit, and had grown a Victory Garden (watermelon, of course) with little American flags, and besides, my uncle the Navy chief had seen if not entirely overseen the success in the Pacific. So I just coasted. Courteously.

    Then with a slap of his hands (am I making this up?) he declared that, for general entertainment, Dube and the manservant would engage in an arm wrestling contest. And there we were, lying stretched on the carpet, hands locked in a grip.

    Now, arm wrestling never was my sport of choice; I’d always find myself with my knuckles just above the board, and could seem to hold indefinitely, but be unable to change the contest to my advantage, so eventually, after salvaging some honor for endurance, I’d just say the hell with it and buy the beer.

    I expected to repeat that pattern as I lay there, again with my knuckles just off the floor, both bodies in full exertion, from the feet to the arms. Since nothing further was going to happen until I’d yield, I had time to think. The lovely ladies were watching calmly and with no expression other than attentive. Maybe it piqued me that even the gf was sitting there with serene regard, and with not even a wink. I decided to draw upon mental resources, and remind myself that I’d recently completed a summer of clambering, filing, sanding and painting, which, if all put together with one act of memory, might do more than enough, and did. In one motion I turned over not only his locked arm but also his entire body, rolled him over on his back.

    I do remember with satisfaction the faces of my two adversaries, and I never saw them again after that. I think I must have got a twinkle from gf, but at that point it didn’t matter since I didn’t need it.

    • Thanks: JimDandy, JMcG, Chrisnonymous
    • LOL: Dave Pinsen
  257. @Dave Pinsen
    @JMcG

    https://twitter.com/amber_athey/status/1467929225097318407?s=21

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

    I didn’t know that Larry David was a Southern neo-Confederate–a neo-con, by God!

  258. @Jack D
    @Moses

    Most (at least older) Americans know that Pearl Harbor day is Dec. 7. Can you (without looking it up) tell me the date of Yom HaShoah (Holocaust Remembrance Day)? Is that day usually mentioned on the front page of the NY Times?

    Replies: @JMcG, @Colin Wright, @Rex Little

    ‘Most (at least older) Americans know that Pearl Harbor day is Dec. 7. Can you (without looking it up) tell me the date of Yom HaShoah (Holocaust Remembrance Day)? Is that day usually mentioned on the front page of the NY Times?’

    December 7th is the anniversary of an actual event. ‘Holocaust Remembrance Day’ is an invention dreamed up by what might best be described as Holocaust Boosters.

  259. @John Regan
    @Jack D

    Perhaps it's a who/whom thing.

    For example you seem to be a lot more angry yourself about the millions who were killed by the Nuremberg Nazis than the millions who were killed by Churchill and FDR and Stalin and their minions. Presumably because you identify more closely with the victims of the Nazis than with those of the latter.

    Or do you think the war criminals Henry Stimson and Henry Morgenthau (for example) should have been hanged as well? Is it disrespect for their millions of victims not to be angry that they both escaped the gallows and died peacefully? While (for example) Joachim von Ribbentrop was hanged and Rudolf Hess died in prison.

    Should Arthur Hays Sulzberger have been hanged for his warmongering hate propaganda in the New York Times like Julius Streicher was for his in Der Stuermer? In that case neither man killed anyone himself. They only incited others to do so.

    In my opinion the only just thing would have been to hang the (alleged or real) war criminals on both sides OR neither. Of course I also realize that this would have been politically impossible in 1945 with the American public riled up with years of hate propaganda against Germany and Japan. But morality and politics are very often quite different things.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JimDandy, @Jack D

  260. @John Regan
    @Jack D

    Perhaps it's a who/whom thing.

    For example you seem to be a lot more angry yourself about the millions who were killed by the Nuremberg Nazis than the millions who were killed by Churchill and FDR and Stalin and their minions. Presumably because you identify more closely with the victims of the Nazis than with those of the latter.

    Or do you think the war criminals Henry Stimson and Henry Morgenthau (for example) should have been hanged as well? Is it disrespect for their millions of victims not to be angry that they both escaped the gallows and died peacefully? While (for example) Joachim von Ribbentrop was hanged and Rudolf Hess died in prison.

    Should Arthur Hays Sulzberger have been hanged for his warmongering hate propaganda in the New York Times like Julius Streicher was for his in Der Stuermer? In that case neither man killed anyone himself. They only incited others to do so.

    In my opinion the only just thing would have been to hang the (alleged or real) war criminals on both sides OR neither. Of course I also realize that this would have been politically impossible in 1945 with the American public riled up with years of hate propaganda against Germany and Japan. But morality and politics are very often quite different things.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JimDandy, @Jack D

    Excellent response. I wrote a pretty good one, too. I promise. It would have come across as snappier if it posted right when I wrote it, instead of sitting interminably in purgatory, but, hey.

    • Replies: @John Regan
    @JimDandy

    Thank you. I know that (as Steve's reply shows) I probably sound like a Martian to mainstream conservatives when I question the "Good War" myths. The pointing and shrieking your post got is an even better case in point. But I hope somehow it will still prove useful to someone in the end.

    I do wonder a little at this thing where Steve's favorite boys like Jack D get to post their comments right away while others have to wait hours or sometimes even days to get theirs published. I haven't noticed anything similar on most of the other blogs here at Unz. It seems to be a special thing for this one.

    It also looks suspiciously like a somewhat subtle means of depriving unpleasant perspectives of oxygen without smothering them outright.

    On the other hand Steve usually does let the posts through eventually and doesn't just ban them. So he should get credit for that much at least. And whether or not he likes me around here I for my part am still glad he's able to write his blog. Even if he has some issues where he won't leave the mainstream he too makes valuable contributions to many important discussions that are often censored elsewhere by people with narrower standards.

    Do I feel old sometimes when I remember the old Internet before censorship was really a thing...

    Replies: @JimDandy, @Reg Cæsar, @Mike Tre

  261. Anonymous[379] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    Don't feed the idiots. It's advice I should follow more often.

    Joking aside, Goering was actually pretty muscular and handsome before he went to seed in power. After the war at Nuremberg, he was put on a diet and weaned off his morphine addiction. He obviously didn't get his youthful looks back, but you can see vestiges of what he physically and mentally was before on the stand.

    (Goering stuck me as basically being a Renaissance condottiere transported 400 years in the future, NGL: when asked why he joined the Nazi Party, his answer boiled down to a desire for adventure after WWI, coupled I suppose with Hitler's unique charisma. One is tempted to wonder if Cesare Borgia would have gone down a similar path had he had access to that level of modern day hedonism.)

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Anonymous, @Chrisnonymous

    Goering was the most significant man in the regime after Hitler and would have been the most likely successor if the boss had died before 1943.

    However he (as head of the Luftwaffe) became the regime’s official scapegoat for the misfortunes that afflicted Germany as the war situation worsened. This made him toxic after 1942. (It’s debatable whether his morphine addiction and other moral lapses were a cause, or consequence, of his loss of power and prestige. He was not a happy man.)

    (He was blamed for the failure to subdue Britain in 1940, for the failure to save Rommel and Stalingrad in 1942-3, and above all, for the failure to prevent the bombing of German cities from 1942 onwards. Of course the real culprit for these things was Hitler, but Goering was made to take the flak.)

  262. @Jack D
    @Johann Ricke

    I really don't hear much whining from Germany and Japan, just from unz pro-Fascists.

    Note that after WWI, there were no war crimes trials, because in WWI the Germans hadn't thrown away the rule book to the same extent. All wars are bloody but what the Axis did in WWII was beyond the pale. I'm shocked by the people here who appear to take the Japanese side. FDR didn't make them do human experiments or starve POWs or massacre Chinese.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @John Regan, @JMcG, @Anonymous

    There were indeed war crimes trials after WWI. This was one of the conditions of the peace treaty. However these trials were held by the Germans themselves and therefore unsurprisingly resulted in acquittals or light sentences and no executions.

  263. @John Regan
    @Jack D


    All wars are bloody but what the Axis did in WWII was beyond the pale.
     
    What precisely would you say they did that was worse than what the Allies did? Honest question. Extra bonus points if you can mention anything that wasn't an alleged or real atrocity against Jews.

    On most scores their atrocities don't seem very exceptional in the context of their times. The Germans bombed cities, shot commissars and generally waged a harsh war in the East. The Japanese waged an even harsher war against the Chinese. But in both cases the Allies did the same things. Only on a bigger scale.

    The ethnic cleansing of Eastern Europe of ethnic Germans after World War II was literally the biggest in history. Likewise the firebombing of Japan will be unequaled until we have a real nuclear World War III. For example.


    I’m shocked by the people here who appear to take the Japanese side. FDR didn’t make them do human experiments
     
    From what I find in trying to track them down there seems to be little evidence for those except "witness testimonies" by either Chinese regime flunkies or Japanese POWs who had been brainwashed by them.

    The exact same authorities (ie Chinese regime flunkies and brainwashed US POWs) later accused the United States of similar crimes in the Korean War:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_biological_warfare_in_the_Korean_War

    Do you believe them in both cases? Or just in one? If so: Why?


    or starve POWs
     
    FDR starved the entire nation of Japan with bombing and unlimited submarine attacks against its shipping. (The exact same thing incidentally that he called piracy when the Germans did it and his minion Jackson tried to have Admiral Doenitz hanged for.) You may not know it but hundreds of thousands of Japanese (at least) starved to death because FDR stole their food.

    Schoolchildren were literally taught to try to hunt for wild frogs to eat because the government couldn't supply their families with rations they could live on. Literally.

    It wasn't nice to starve the Allied POWs but it was a perfectly natural consequence of FDR starving the Japanese. When there isn't food for your own people, is feeding enemies who hate you the top priority? Should it be? If I were a Japanese soldier I imagine I'd revolt if the government fed the Americans well while my own children starved.


    or massacre Chinese.
     
    Did the Japanese treat the Chinese any worse than the Chinese treated them? Or themselves for that matter? The Kuomintang alone killed millions not counting the excesses of the warlords. That's not going into the crimes of the Chinese communists.

    Even using the Chinese propaganda machine's own numbers the famous "Rape of Nanjing" was a rounding error compared to the domestic Chinese genocides. Yet FDR had no problem with supplying the perpetrators of those with weapons and personnel in direct violation of international law as then understood.

    Of course there were also innocent Chinese who did suffer real war crimes from the Japanese. It's sad that that happened. Just like so much else in those times. Obviously they didn't deserve that. But the selective moral outrage is tiresome.

    The whole "Good War" was one big exhibition of hypocrisy ueber alles. Matched only by the ignorant self righteousness of its latter day defenders.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jack D

    “What precisely would you say they did that was worse than what the Allies did?”

    Start the war?

    • Replies: @John Regan
    @Steve Sailer

    As far as Germany was concerned FDR started the war with them with his "Shoot On Sight" order calling for the US Navy to hunt the U-boats in the Atlantic. By any possible standard that was a blatant act of war. The Germans didn't reciprocate right away because contrary to the Hollywood stereotype Hitler didn't want war with America unless they left him no choice.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Greer_(DD-145)#The_Greer_incident,_September_1941

    Note that this publicly proclaimed order to hunt German submarines together with the British thousands of miles outside American territorial waters was issued months before Pearl Harbor. Amusingly enough on September 11. I wonder why conspiracy theorists don't make more of that coincidence?

    If Germany and Japan had wanted a casus belli they had a rock solid one right there that no lawyer could possibly have objected to. However they didn't take the bait just yet.

    As for Japan they did fire the first shot in the Pacific on December 7. Just as Henry Stimson and FDR had tried their best to make them do. As Stimson reported Roosevelt as saying: "The question was how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves." (Stimson Diary as printed in the Congressional special committee Pearl Harbor investigation papers after the war).

    Refer again to "Bankrupting the Enemy" and its bibliography. Economic war can be just as bad as real war if you take it far enough. No modern economy can function without fossil fuels. FDR and Churchill gave the Japanese the choice between submission or economic and social collapse with their global oil embargo. Since they weren't morons (and as the Stimson quote shows) they of course knew what would be the result.

    Just as Stimson and FDR had planned the Japanese predictably chose to take their chances fighting (even though they knew their odds were very bad). With the benefit of hindsight we could say that was a mistake. Even so I can't really say I blame them.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Sam Malone
    @Steve Sailer

    Really lame snarky attempt at a response, Steve. With the British and American leadership chomping at the bit for war and undertaking concrete policies aimed at bringing it about, neither Japan nor Germany can unambiguously be said to have "started it". And even if they did, you're conceding that none of their other actions rise to the level of destructiveness and criminality of the Allies.

  264. @ScarletNumber
    @Dan Hayes

    It goes to show that pro football was a minor-league sport until the late 50's, with the Big 3 being baseball, boxing, and horse racing. The Dodgers played in the NFL 1930-1945, at which point they left to join the AAFC, the league that hosted the Cleveland Browns.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

    Thanks. My impression was that TV made professional football a major “big time” sport. Beforehand football was college football!

  265. @Reg Cæsar
    @Dan Hayes


    Until now I had not known that there ever was a “Brooklyn Dodgers” professional football team!
     
    There were also the New York Yankees and Boston Braves, the latter becoming the Redskins upon moving from Braves Field to Fenway. The Steelers were the Pirates their first season.

    Toronto's AAA baseball team was the Maple Leafs.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

    Sincere Thanks! Another example of the UR being a veritable treasure trove of information.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Dan Hayes

    The football teams were named for their baseball landlords, who probably viewed it not as trademark infringement but as free off-season advertisement.

    In Europe, though, when you see a soccer and a basketball team sharing a name, e.g., Real Madrid, it is almost always two divisions of the same organization.

  266. @epebble
    @Jack D

    It is less and less relevant to our future

    An easy way to visualize this:

    December 7, 1781 : Not many thought a band of rebels can defeat the military of the mightiest nation on earth.
    December 7, 1861 : Not many thought the nation will self-destruct over a bunch of negroes
    December 7, 1941 : Not many were confidant U.S., fairly weak after a decade of Great Depression, can win over two powerful enemies overseas.
    December 7, 2021 : Not many think the nation can "win" against China...

    December 7, 2101 : Somebody will be writing how wrong the commenters were in 2021.

    Futurology is a dangerous profession!

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Houston 1992, @kaganovitch, @Jim Don Bob

    Futurology is a dangerous profession!

    Here is the always interesting Dan Antion on the future: https://newcriterion.com/issues/2021/12/unprecedented

    • Thanks: epebble
  267. @Steve Sailer
    @John Regan

    "What precisely would you say they did that was worse than what the Allies did?"

    Start the war?

    Replies: @John Regan, @Sam Malone

    As far as Germany was concerned FDR started the war with them with his “Shoot On Sight” order calling for the US Navy to hunt the U-boats in the Atlantic. By any possible standard that was a blatant act of war. The Germans didn’t reciprocate right away because contrary to the Hollywood stereotype Hitler didn’t want war with America unless they left him no choice.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Greer_(DD-145)#The_Greer_incident,_September_1941

    Note that this publicly proclaimed order to hunt German submarines together with the British thousands of miles outside American territorial waters was issued months before Pearl Harbor. Amusingly enough on September 11. I wonder why conspiracy theorists don’t make more of that coincidence?

    If Germany and Japan had wanted a casus belli they had a rock solid one right there that no lawyer could possibly have objected to. However they didn’t take the bait just yet.

    As for Japan they did fire the first shot in the Pacific on December 7. Just as Henry Stimson and FDR had tried their best to make them do. As Stimson reported Roosevelt as saying: “The question was how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves.” (Stimson Diary as printed in the Congressional special committee Pearl Harbor investigation papers after the war).

    Refer again to “Bankrupting the Enemy” and its bibliography. Economic war can be just as bad as real war if you take it far enough. No modern economy can function without fossil fuels. FDR and Churchill gave the Japanese the choice between submission or economic and social collapse with their global oil embargo. Since they weren’t morons (and as the Stimson quote shows) they of course knew what would be the result.

    Just as Stimson and FDR had planned the Japanese predictably chose to take their chances fighting (even though they knew their odds were very bad). With the benefit of hindsight we could say that was a mistake. Even so I can’t really say I blame them.

    • Thanks: Sam Malone
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @John Regan

    Nah, you started it, you invaded Poland:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0

    Replies: @John Regan, @Sam Malone

  268. @Alfa158
    @prosa123

    Autistics like yourself will be shocked to hear the following:
    - no military in the world assigns women to front line combat duty, and for good reason.
    - the current and proposed ACFT are skewed to help women, and yet only 10% of women in the US military met the required fitness levels for combat, even after training for the tests. Even including non-combat roles, only 30% passed.
    -I go to a commercial gym at least three times a week. Those “ultrafit hardbodied” women are less than a few percent of the clientele. I suspect your familiarity with gyms is limited to the commercials on TV where every woman is an “ultrafit hardbody” showing men how to bench 350. Many of the non-fictional UH will probably still flunk a test which requires them to meet the brute strength requirements for combat. An 80 pound crate of mortar shells that has to be humped to the top of a hill isn’t going to pro-rate itself to a lower mass just because a woman is trying to carry it.

    As far as I’m concerned, the few women who can actually meet exactly the same standards as men are perfectly welcome to join combat squads.( Good luck, and better them than me, I was in the Air Force ).But that is not what this is about. Women want to squeeze into any kind of nominally combat position because that helps them get promoted into higher ranks faster.

    Replies: @Tony massey, @Jim Don Bob

    Women want to squeeze into any kind of nominally combat position because that helps them get promoted into higher ranks faster.

    Right. You can’t get above o-6 without a major, preferably combat, command, though BHO appointed one black babe a 4 star admiral whose command was logistics ships.

  269. @John Regan
    @Steve Sailer

    As far as Germany was concerned FDR started the war with them with his "Shoot On Sight" order calling for the US Navy to hunt the U-boats in the Atlantic. By any possible standard that was a blatant act of war. The Germans didn't reciprocate right away because contrary to the Hollywood stereotype Hitler didn't want war with America unless they left him no choice.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Greer_(DD-145)#The_Greer_incident,_September_1941

    Note that this publicly proclaimed order to hunt German submarines together with the British thousands of miles outside American territorial waters was issued months before Pearl Harbor. Amusingly enough on September 11. I wonder why conspiracy theorists don't make more of that coincidence?

    If Germany and Japan had wanted a casus belli they had a rock solid one right there that no lawyer could possibly have objected to. However they didn't take the bait just yet.

    As for Japan they did fire the first shot in the Pacific on December 7. Just as Henry Stimson and FDR had tried their best to make them do. As Stimson reported Roosevelt as saying: "The question was how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves." (Stimson Diary as printed in the Congressional special committee Pearl Harbor investigation papers after the war).

    Refer again to "Bankrupting the Enemy" and its bibliography. Economic war can be just as bad as real war if you take it far enough. No modern economy can function without fossil fuels. FDR and Churchill gave the Japanese the choice between submission or economic and social collapse with their global oil embargo. Since they weren't morons (and as the Stimson quote shows) they of course knew what would be the result.

    Just as Stimson and FDR had planned the Japanese predictably chose to take their chances fighting (even though they knew their odds were very bad). With the benefit of hindsight we could say that was a mistake. Even so I can't really say I blame them.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Nah, you started it, you invaded Poland:

    • Replies: @John Regan
    @Steve Sailer

    The prehistory of the Anglo-German war that started in Poland in 1939 and mutated into a global World War II in 1941 is quite interesting. Again the real story is much more complicated than the intro textbook narrative of "Evil Hitler invaded Poland for no reason because he was evil and that's all folks." This is probably not the place to go into that with a big effort post though. Perhaps especially so given the glib response my last post got.

    So instead right now I'll simply offer a book recommendation. "1939: The War That Had Many Fathers" was written by a general in the German Bundeswehr (of the postwar generation so not an ex-Nazi) and originally published in Germany. Since there are strict laws against "defamation" and "holocaust denial" and so on in that country it's obviously not a work of that type. Instead it's a reasonably comprehensive history that goes through the political background of the war viewed from multiple sides and offers a quite different perspective on these events than you (or most other readers here) are likely to be familiar with.

    It isn't perfect and doesn't tell the entire truth of course. No one book ever is or can. But it still contains many startling surprises. Of course statements of fact are usually footnoted so the sources can be checked. And compared to other books.

    If you are genuinely interested in the topic I highly recommend it. It's available in English from Amazon and the other usual sellers.

    , @Sam Malone
    @Steve Sailer

    Very impressive response to such a serious subject. Basil it seems is not the only one blinded by the continuing influence of obnoxiously one-sided Anglo-American war propaganda.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  270. @JimDandy
    @John Regan

    Excellent response. I wrote a pretty good one, too. I promise. It would have come across as snappier if it posted right when I wrote it, instead of sitting interminably in purgatory, but, hey.

    Replies: @John Regan

    Thank you. I know that (as Steve’s reply shows) I probably sound like a Martian to mainstream conservatives when I question the “Good War” myths. The pointing and shrieking your post got is an even better case in point. But I hope somehow it will still prove useful to someone in the end.

    I do wonder a little at this thing where Steve’s favorite boys like Jack D get to post their comments right away while others have to wait hours or sometimes even days to get theirs published. I haven’t noticed anything similar on most of the other blogs here at Unz. It seems to be a special thing for this one.

    It also looks suspiciously like a somewhat subtle means of depriving unpleasant perspectives of oxygen without smothering them outright.

    On the other hand Steve usually does let the posts through eventually and doesn’t just ban them. So he should get credit for that much at least. And whether or not he likes me around here I for my part am still glad he’s able to write his blog. Even if he has some issues where he won’t leave the mainstream he too makes valuable contributions to many important discussions that are often censored elsewhere by people with narrower standards.

    Do I feel old sometimes when I remember the old Internet before censorship was really a thing…

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @John Regan

    If you can't question "The Good Wars" in front of an audience of Unz readers, then you can't question them anywhere. The mythology of our absolute saintly righteousness in those wars is much stronger than religious faith in America. How dare you? Didn't you see Band of Brothers? Nobody talks about The Greatest Generation like that!

    Steve is one of the most unfairly-maligned figures in American history. That he is not even remotely "a Nazi" is evidenced by the fact that he has loyal readers like Jack. I can understand why he is particularly sensitive about his comments section when it comes to certain subjects. I just hope he doesn't unfairly attack some of his readers with the same broad brush that has been used to smear him.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @John Regan


    I do wonder a little at this thing where Steve’s favorite boys like Jack D get to post their comments right away while others have to wait hours or sometimes even days to get theirs published.
     
    It's a time-saver, as long as you behave. Above all,, be courteous.. Suggestion: if you say something rude, obsessive, or desperate, make sure it disagrees with Steve. Then it will go through! American Renaissance, at least in print, had an explicit policy of holding their opponents to lower standards.

    In other words, when your enemy is committing suicide, don't interfere.
    , @Mike Tre
    @John Regan

    Sailer isn't as fair as some suggest. He likes to wait 1-2 days sometimes to "moderate" some comments, so that by the time they are visible the discussion has movie on to a more recent post. He flushes at least one of my comments per month; comments that are free of slurs or slander or curses. He has called me a jerk outright for challenging him on his shameful covid beliefs, and for similar reasons, Ron Unz also restricted my original handle to one post per day and deleted any comments I made directly challenging him about it.

    Meanwhile obvious trolls are allowed to post, apparently unrestricted even though their content is clearly meant to do nothing but instigate. But I suppose if a single comment from a Chinese or negro troll generates 50 replies, it makes the post and its author look that much more popular.

    You haven't been here long but have become one of my favorite contributors and I thank you for it.

  271. @Sparkon
    @Jack D

    Ad hominem with an F-bomb!

    Wow! That's really impressive verbal pyrotechnics, dude, but is that all you've got?

    One million was the Soviet figure, and I think Darkmoon treated even that number hypothetically, by preceding it with an "if."

    According to an International Red Cross survey conducted after the war, only about 270,000 - 300,000 persons of all nationalities died in all the German camps from all causes during WWII, so there were no millions of dead Jews exterminated by the Germans in WWII.

    It didn't happen. It's nothing but a big, fat lie.

    But apparently in your mind, and commenter nebulafox's, extracting phony confessions with torture to support that big, fat lie is A-OK.

    A lie is still a lie except when your side tells it, eh Jack?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Or maybe your side committed the most exhaustively documented crime in history?

  272. @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    Don't feed the idiots. It's advice I should follow more often.

    Joking aside, Goering was actually pretty muscular and handsome before he went to seed in power. After the war at Nuremberg, he was put on a diet and weaned off his morphine addiction. He obviously didn't get his youthful looks back, but you can see vestiges of what he physically and mentally was before on the stand.

    (Goering stuck me as basically being a Renaissance condottiere transported 400 years in the future, NGL: when asked why he joined the Nazi Party, his answer boiled down to a desire for adventure after WWI, coupled I suppose with Hitler's unique charisma. One is tempted to wonder if Cesare Borgia would have gone down a similar path had he had access to that level of modern day hedonism.)

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Anonymous, @Chrisnonymous

    Handsome yes, muscular no. You can see his muscularity from the cut of the shoulders in his jackets at an early age. He had a small chest and narrow shoulders. That’s why he got so fat-and-jowly-looking–he didn’t have the frame to absorb the weight. You can see it again in the Nuremburg trials–when he lost weight as an older man, his head emerged as enormous compared to his body. I’m half German and have a different style of German frame–I’ve been close to 300lbs in my life, but at that weight didn’t look as bulbous as Goering.

  273. @Steve Sailer
    @John Regan

    Nah, you started it, you invaded Poland:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0

    Replies: @John Regan, @Sam Malone

    The prehistory of the Anglo-German war that started in Poland in 1939 and mutated into a global World War II in 1941 is quite interesting. Again the real story is much more complicated than the intro textbook narrative of “Evil Hitler invaded Poland for no reason because he was evil and that’s all folks.” This is probably not the place to go into that with a big effort post though. Perhaps especially so given the glib response my last post got.

    So instead right now I’ll simply offer a book recommendation. “1939: The War That Had Many Fathers” was written by a general in the German Bundeswehr (of the postwar generation so not an ex-Nazi) and originally published in Germany. Since there are strict laws against “defamation” and “holocaust denial” and so on in that country it’s obviously not a work of that type. Instead it’s a reasonably comprehensive history that goes through the political background of the war viewed from multiple sides and offers a quite different perspective on these events than you (or most other readers here) are likely to be familiar with.

    It isn’t perfect and doesn’t tell the entire truth of course. No one book ever is or can. But it still contains many startling surprises. Of course statements of fact are usually footnoted so the sources can be checked. And compared to other books.

    If you are genuinely interested in the topic I highly recommend it. It’s available in English from Amazon and the other usual sellers.

  274. I was watching a tv special on the weekend about the Pearl Harbour attack, and the scenes of the thousands of defeated allies lining the road in Singapore, standing to attention as Tojo, I think, drove past, had me thinking why didn’t some mob his car and kill him. It’s a bizarre sight to see such a spectacle, and wonder how no body moved to attack him. At that point in time, he would have been vastly outnumbered, and no doubt killed before the jap soldiers could react. Maybe it was just the crazy English officers “gentlemen’s “ word that was given that allowed his safe passage. It’s strange looking back on it now.

    • Agree: Yngvar
  275. @John Regan
    @JimDandy

    Thank you. I know that (as Steve's reply shows) I probably sound like a Martian to mainstream conservatives when I question the "Good War" myths. The pointing and shrieking your post got is an even better case in point. But I hope somehow it will still prove useful to someone in the end.

    I do wonder a little at this thing where Steve's favorite boys like Jack D get to post their comments right away while others have to wait hours or sometimes even days to get theirs published. I haven't noticed anything similar on most of the other blogs here at Unz. It seems to be a special thing for this one.

    It also looks suspiciously like a somewhat subtle means of depriving unpleasant perspectives of oxygen without smothering them outright.

    On the other hand Steve usually does let the posts through eventually and doesn't just ban them. So he should get credit for that much at least. And whether or not he likes me around here I for my part am still glad he's able to write his blog. Even if he has some issues where he won't leave the mainstream he too makes valuable contributions to many important discussions that are often censored elsewhere by people with narrower standards.

    Do I feel old sometimes when I remember the old Internet before censorship was really a thing...

    Replies: @JimDandy, @Reg Cæsar, @Mike Tre

    If you can’t question “The Good Wars” in front of an audience of Unz readers, then you can’t question them anywhere. The mythology of our absolute saintly righteousness in those wars is much stronger than religious faith in America. How dare you? Didn’t you see Band of Brothers? Nobody talks about The Greatest Generation like that!

    Steve is one of the most unfairly-maligned figures in American history. That he is not even remotely “a Nazi” is evidenced by the fact that he has loyal readers like Jack. I can understand why he is particularly sensitive about his comments section when it comes to certain subjects. I just hope he doesn’t unfairly attack some of his readers with the same broad brush that has been used to smear him.

  276. @Dan Hayes
    @Reg Cæsar

    Sincere Thanks! Another example of the UR being a veritable treasure trove of information.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The football teams were named for their baseball landlords, who probably viewed it not as trademark infringement but as free off-season advertisement.

    In Europe, though, when you see a soccer and a basketball team sharing a name, e.g., Real Madrid, it is almost always two divisions of the same organization.

    • Thanks: Dan Hayes
  277. @John Regan
    @JimDandy

    Thank you. I know that (as Steve's reply shows) I probably sound like a Martian to mainstream conservatives when I question the "Good War" myths. The pointing and shrieking your post got is an even better case in point. But I hope somehow it will still prove useful to someone in the end.

    I do wonder a little at this thing where Steve's favorite boys like Jack D get to post their comments right away while others have to wait hours or sometimes even days to get theirs published. I haven't noticed anything similar on most of the other blogs here at Unz. It seems to be a special thing for this one.

    It also looks suspiciously like a somewhat subtle means of depriving unpleasant perspectives of oxygen without smothering them outright.

    On the other hand Steve usually does let the posts through eventually and doesn't just ban them. So he should get credit for that much at least. And whether or not he likes me around here I for my part am still glad he's able to write his blog. Even if he has some issues where he won't leave the mainstream he too makes valuable contributions to many important discussions that are often censored elsewhere by people with narrower standards.

    Do I feel old sometimes when I remember the old Internet before censorship was really a thing...

    Replies: @JimDandy, @Reg Cæsar, @Mike Tre

    I do wonder a little at this thing where Steve’s favorite boys like Jack D get to post their comments right away while others have to wait hours or sometimes even days to get theirs published.

    It’s a time-saver, as long as you behave. Above all,, be courteous.. Suggestion: if you say something rude, obsessive, or desperate, make sure it disagrees with Steve. Then it will go through! American Renaissance, at least in print, had an explicit policy of holding their opponents to lower standards.

    In other words, when your enemy is committing suicide, don’t interfere.

    • Thanks: John Regan
  278. @Anonymous
    @prosa123


    For those Saileroid Autistics who think that women are “too delicate” for combat, I would suggest paying a visit to any commercial gym (a completely alien experience for most of the doofi here, but that’s a different issue). You’ll be shocked at the sight of all the ultrafit hardbodied women.
     
    Ask any one of them to do 10 pull-ups.

    What you’ll see is a lot of squeaking, a little grunting, a few will squint their eyes and bunch up their faces while betraying their white spandex shorts with unsightly brown spots… but little to no repetitions to be accounted for.

    Then maybe try convincing Serena Williams to play a tennis match against the top male tennis player, and watch her lose every single set, every single time, while running breathlessly about the court, cast as that man’s bitch. For eternity. Now try every other standard professional directly competitive athletic event requiring power and coordination.

    Look at all those failed women, featuring soiled panties! 😮

    Now siddown and shuddup, missy. And thank your flipping god that mens chivalry has dictated keeping your kind off the front lines, so far.

    https://youtu.be/oHS6tYAbAdw

    Replies: @68W58

    In 1998 Karsten Braasch, who was ranked 203 in the world, played the Williams sisters playing a set against each of them. He beat Serena 6-1 and Venus 6-2 and said that he spent the morning drinking beer and playing golf. The difference in male and female athletic performance is huge, but our betters ignore that when it comes to an actual life or death competition like combat and pretend that females will be able to handle that just as well as men.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @68W58

    The most famous male -female tennis match was that between butch lesbian Billie Jean King, age 29, and and over the hill Bobby Riggs, 26 years her senior and retired from pro tennis for 22 years. Riggs lost but he played unusually poorly and there is some speculation whether he had bet against himself and thrown the match. Several months earlier he had beaten Margaret Court, then ranked #1 female.

    King (to her credit) played to Riggs's weaknesses as an out of shape old man and kept him running around the court. This was as much an "old vs young" match as male vs. female. Riggs was old enough to be her father.

  279. @68W58
    @Anonymous

    In 1998 Karsten Braasch, who was ranked 203 in the world, played the Williams sisters playing a set against each of them. He beat Serena 6-1 and Venus 6-2 and said that he spent the morning drinking beer and playing golf. The difference in male and female athletic performance is huge, but our betters ignore that when it comes to an actual life or death competition like combat and pretend that females will be able to handle that just as well as men.

    Replies: @Jack D

    The most famous male -female tennis match was that between butch lesbian Billie Jean King, age 29, and and over the hill Bobby Riggs, 26 years her senior and retired from pro tennis for 22 years. Riggs lost but he played unusually poorly and there is some speculation whether he had bet against himself and thrown the match. Several months earlier he had beaten Margaret Court, then ranked #1 female.

    King (to her credit) played to Riggs’s weaknesses as an out of shape old man and kept him running around the court. This was as much an “old vs young” match as male vs. female. Riggs was old enough to be her father.

  280. @John Regan
    @Jack D

    Perhaps it's a who/whom thing.

    For example you seem to be a lot more angry yourself about the millions who were killed by the Nuremberg Nazis than the millions who were killed by Churchill and FDR and Stalin and their minions. Presumably because you identify more closely with the victims of the Nazis than with those of the latter.

    Or do you think the war criminals Henry Stimson and Henry Morgenthau (for example) should have been hanged as well? Is it disrespect for their millions of victims not to be angry that they both escaped the gallows and died peacefully? While (for example) Joachim von Ribbentrop was hanged and Rudolf Hess died in prison.

    Should Arthur Hays Sulzberger have been hanged for his warmongering hate propaganda in the New York Times like Julius Streicher was for his in Der Stuermer? In that case neither man killed anyone himself. They only incited others to do so.

    In my opinion the only just thing would have been to hang the (alleged or real) war criminals on both sides OR neither. Of course I also realize that this would have been politically impossible in 1945 with the American public riled up with years of hate propaganda against Germany and Japan. But morality and politics are very often quite different things.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JimDandy, @Jack D

    I think even if you were a Martian you would be able to see that Sulzberger and Streicher were not on the same plane, but if you are an American and not a Nazi, it should really be a no-brainer. You really can’t see any difference in morality between Americans and Nazis? Would you really have preferred or been indifferent to a Nazi victory?

  281. @JimDandy
    @Jack D

    Hahaha! Thanks--laughter is an instant vacation. You really think you can get away with putting words in my mouth when it's all there in black and white? The pretense of Nuremberg was that we were the civilized humanitarians punishing sadistic atrocities and the breakage of rules of war. Anyone who wants to know what I actually wrote can go back and look at my comment.

    As for your intro to your personal stash of genocide-porn:

    "They should have gotten these guys – they were highly experienced and knew how to provide service with a smile:"

    My retort was going to be that they should have gotten these guys. But then I remembered that, in essence, they probably did.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Hanged_sergeants.jpg

    The Sergeants Affair

    Replies: @JMcG

    Holy hell. Hey never heard about that before. Nice way to treat the soldiers of a nation that just defeated Nazi Germany.

    • Agree: JimDandy
  282. @Steve Sailer
    @John Regan

    "What precisely would you say they did that was worse than what the Allies did?"

    Start the war?

    Replies: @John Regan, @Sam Malone

    Really lame snarky attempt at a response, Steve. With the British and American leadership chomping at the bit for war and undertaking concrete policies aimed at bringing it about, neither Japan nor Germany can unambiguously be said to have “started it”. And even if they did, you’re conceding that none of their other actions rise to the level of destructiveness and criminality of the Allies.

  283. @JMcG
    @Buffalo Joe

    Hi Joe - I had a similar experience. When I was a new apprentice, one of the older foremen had been a Bosun’s Mate on the USS Franklin, CV-13. He joined up right after Pearl Harbor. He skipped breakfast the morning his ship was bombed, probably saving his life. He spent much of the day in a weapons magazine, tying ropes to aerial rockets so they could be hauled up and thrown overboard while the fires raged all around. He still spent some of his nights driving aimlessly around town so he could stay awake and not have nightmares as late as the year 2000.
    Another, recently retired foreman had joined the RCAF to get in the war before Pearl Harbor. He flew there and then got into the AAF later. He flew unarmed P38s doing bomb damage assessment over Northern Europe. Another was a Marine in the first wave that landed on Guadalcanal.
    I met all those guys around 1989 and went crazy when I found out what they had done. I couldn’t get enough of talking to them. There wasn’t another young guy who had any interest at all, even back then.
    May they Rest In Peace. Have a great Christmas, Joe.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    JMcG, this is one of the best replies I have ever received. Those were great men. God rest their souls and you stay safe.

  284. @Steve Sailer
    @John Regan

    Nah, you started it, you invaded Poland:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0

    Replies: @John Regan, @Sam Malone

    Very impressive response to such a serious subject. Basil it seems is not the only one blinded by the continuing influence of obnoxiously one-sided Anglo-American war propaganda.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Sam Malone

    Whereas the Poles had it coming on September 1, 1939.

    Replies: @JMcG, @JimDandy

  285. @Buffalo Joe
    @Jack D

    Jack, I like what you write, but the front page is the front page, so it counts. WWII shaped my parents' generation in ways that we can't imagine. My mother had her husband, two brothers-in-law and three brothers all overseas for some of the best years of their lives. No one knew about PTSD back then, but those guys, my dad and uncles, were all affected in some way. Till's death is the spoon that stirs the shit. Their way of saying, see, Whites never change...Till to Floyd. Stay safe buddy.

    Replies: @Jake Barnes, @GeologyAnonMk3

    I have to admit, my granddads were an LST skipper, and a Devastator driver, and since I inherited both of their seachests as the Navy heir, going through their diaries and photographs (sequestered for decades from their wives, and my father, who on an insane notion joined the Army instead of Navy) it was ‘The best of times, it was the worst of times’ in their lives. I’m truly sorry, with no irony that your family had a different experience. I think often about my great-uncles who were KIA, whose family lines were snipped, leaving just me. Much was lost. Would that everyone came back uninjured.

    • Agree: JMcG
  286. @Sam Malone
    @Steve Sailer

    Very impressive response to such a serious subject. Basil it seems is not the only one blinded by the continuing influence of obnoxiously one-sided Anglo-American war propaganda.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Whereas the Poles had it coming on September 1, 1939.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Steve Sailer

    And from our Soviet allies two weeks later. And Finland had it coming on November 30, 1939. I guess the Brits and the French had lost their concern for the rights of small countries by then.

    , @JimDandy
    @Steve Sailer

    All I have is a voice
    To undo the folded lie,
    The romantic lie in the brain
    Of the sensual man-in-the-street
    And the lie of Authority
    --"September 1, 1939"
    W. H. Auden


    https://www.unz.com/article/why-germany-invaded-poland/

  287. @epebble
    @GeologyAnonMk3

    My interpretation of what Jack wrote is (considering he interleaved it as a commentary on Emmett Till pushing aside Pearl Harbor remembrance), we have bigger problems from convulsions within than possible invasion from without. For those in the military (and their loved ones) possible invasion from without is always a bigger deal; but for the rest, convulsions within is scarier.

    Replies: @GeologyAnonMk3

    I am not are not unaware that the greater threat lies within. But we have separated the kinetic portion of the various military services so far from the civilian experience that there is now this Faustian choice between junta and anarchy. How can we persist like this? It is tortuous to both modes of society.

  288. @Steve Sailer
    @Sam Malone

    Whereas the Poles had it coming on September 1, 1939.

    Replies: @JMcG, @JimDandy

    And from our Soviet allies two weeks later. And Finland had it coming on November 30, 1939. I guess the Brits and the French had lost their concern for the rights of small countries by then.

  289. @Steve Sailer
    @Sam Malone

    Whereas the Poles had it coming on September 1, 1939.

    Replies: @JMcG, @JimDandy

    All I have is a voice
    To undo the folded lie,
    The romantic lie in the brain
    Of the sensual man-in-the-street
    And the lie of Authority
    –“September 1, 1939”
    W. H. Auden

    https://www.unz.com/article/why-germany-invaded-poland/

  290. @John Regan
    @Jack D


    All wars are bloody but what the Axis did in WWII was beyond the pale.
     
    What precisely would you say they did that was worse than what the Allies did? Honest question. Extra bonus points if you can mention anything that wasn't an alleged or real atrocity against Jews.

    On most scores their atrocities don't seem very exceptional in the context of their times. The Germans bombed cities, shot commissars and generally waged a harsh war in the East. The Japanese waged an even harsher war against the Chinese. But in both cases the Allies did the same things. Only on a bigger scale.

    The ethnic cleansing of Eastern Europe of ethnic Germans after World War II was literally the biggest in history. Likewise the firebombing of Japan will be unequaled until we have a real nuclear World War III. For example.


    I’m shocked by the people here who appear to take the Japanese side. FDR didn’t make them do human experiments
     
    From what I find in trying to track them down there seems to be little evidence for those except "witness testimonies" by either Chinese regime flunkies or Japanese POWs who had been brainwashed by them.

    The exact same authorities (ie Chinese regime flunkies and brainwashed US POWs) later accused the United States of similar crimes in the Korean War:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_biological_warfare_in_the_Korean_War

    Do you believe them in both cases? Or just in one? If so: Why?


    or starve POWs
     
    FDR starved the entire nation of Japan with bombing and unlimited submarine attacks against its shipping. (The exact same thing incidentally that he called piracy when the Germans did it and his minion Jackson tried to have Admiral Doenitz hanged for.) You may not know it but hundreds of thousands of Japanese (at least) starved to death because FDR stole their food.

    Schoolchildren were literally taught to try to hunt for wild frogs to eat because the government couldn't supply their families with rations they could live on. Literally.

    It wasn't nice to starve the Allied POWs but it was a perfectly natural consequence of FDR starving the Japanese. When there isn't food for your own people, is feeding enemies who hate you the top priority? Should it be? If I were a Japanese soldier I imagine I'd revolt if the government fed the Americans well while my own children starved.


    or massacre Chinese.
     
    Did the Japanese treat the Chinese any worse than the Chinese treated them? Or themselves for that matter? The Kuomintang alone killed millions not counting the excesses of the warlords. That's not going into the crimes of the Chinese communists.

    Even using the Chinese propaganda machine's own numbers the famous "Rape of Nanjing" was a rounding error compared to the domestic Chinese genocides. Yet FDR had no problem with supplying the perpetrators of those with weapons and personnel in direct violation of international law as then understood.

    Of course there were also innocent Chinese who did suffer real war crimes from the Japanese. It's sad that that happened. Just like so much else in those times. Obviously they didn't deserve that. But the selective moral outrage is tiresome.

    The whole "Good War" was one big exhibition of hypocrisy ueber alles. Matched only by the ignorant self righteousness of its latter day defenders.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jack D

    Extra bonus points if you can mention anything that wasn’t an alleged or real atrocity against Jews.

    OK, then I’ll mention the Poles.

    https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/2000926-Poles.pdf

    In addition to 3 million Jewish Polish citizens, another 3 million non-Jewish (mostly Catholic) Polish citizens were murdered by the Nazis.

    There is NOTHING, and I mean nothing comparable in all of history to the death factories that the Nazis built in Poland. If that is all they did (and in fact they did much much more, all over Europe) that alone would put them on a different plane that the US. There is no American Auschwitz, not even close. Never has been and never will be. If you can’t see the difference in quality and quantity between what the Americans did and what the Nazis did it’s because you don’t want to see.

    • Agree: ic1000
    • Replies: @Dube
    @Jack D

    It's correct to say that there's another voice in the matter that is rarely heard.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @ic1000
    @Jack D

    > There is NOTHING, and I mean nothing comparable in all of history to the death factories that the Nazis built in Poland.

    Boomers and younger generations don't recognize the awesomeness of late-19th-century Germany. It was the bright and shining star of science, technology, industry, and Western Civ generally.

    One could pick metrics to argue that the most successful steppe tribes (hordes) were proportionately more destructive and murderous. Baghdad 1258. Tamurlane, late 14th century.

    The Germans had much, much farther to fall. And under Nazi rule, they did.

    Replies: @Jack D

  291. @David In TN
    @Buzz Mohawk

    With a lot of us, our parents met when and where they did because of WW II.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Rex Little

    With a lot of us, our parents met when and where they did because of WW II.

    Not me. My parents met in college a few months before Pearl Harbor, and would have married sooner than they did if my father hadn’t been drafted. So WWII probably put off my birth for a couple of years.

  292. @Jack D
    @John Regan


    Extra bonus points if you can mention anything that wasn’t an alleged or real atrocity against Jews.
     
    OK, then I'll mention the Poles.

    https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/2000926-Poles.pdf


    In addition to 3 million Jewish Polish citizens, another 3 million non-Jewish (mostly Catholic) Polish citizens were murdered by the Nazis.

    There is NOTHING, and I mean nothing comparable in all of history to the death factories that the Nazis built in Poland. If that is all they did (and in fact they did much much more, all over Europe) that alone would put them on a different plane that the US. There is no American Auschwitz, not even close. Never has been and never will be. If you can't see the difference in quality and quantity between what the Americans did and what the Nazis did it's because you don't want to see.

    Replies: @Dube, @ic1000

    It’s correct to say that there’s another voice in the matter that is rarely heard.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Dube

    I've heard their lies and false equivalencies before and am not interested in hearing them again any more than I want to debate with flat earthers and creationists. Some things are just not up for discussion.

  293. @Jack D
    @Moses

    Most (at least older) Americans know that Pearl Harbor day is Dec. 7. Can you (without looking it up) tell me the date of Yom HaShoah (Holocaust Remembrance Day)? Is that day usually mentioned on the front page of the NY Times?

    Replies: @JMcG, @Colin Wright, @Rex Little

    Most (at least older) Americans know that Pearl Harbor day is Dec. 7. Can you (without looking it up) tell me the date of Yom HaShoah (Holocaust Remembrance Day)?

    I didn’t even know there was a Holocaust Remembrance Day–and I’m Jewish.

  294. @Jack D
    @John Regan


    Extra bonus points if you can mention anything that wasn’t an alleged or real atrocity against Jews.
     
    OK, then I'll mention the Poles.

    https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/2000926-Poles.pdf


    In addition to 3 million Jewish Polish citizens, another 3 million non-Jewish (mostly Catholic) Polish citizens were murdered by the Nazis.

    There is NOTHING, and I mean nothing comparable in all of history to the death factories that the Nazis built in Poland. If that is all they did (and in fact they did much much more, all over Europe) that alone would put them on a different plane that the US. There is no American Auschwitz, not even close. Never has been and never will be. If you can't see the difference in quality and quantity between what the Americans did and what the Nazis did it's because you don't want to see.

    Replies: @Dube, @ic1000

    > There is NOTHING, and I mean nothing comparable in all of history to the death factories that the Nazis built in Poland.

    Boomers and younger generations don’t recognize the awesomeness of late-19th-century Germany. It was the bright and shining star of science, technology, industry, and Western Civ generally.

    One could pick metrics to argue that the most successful steppe tribes (hordes) were proportionately more destructive and murderous. Baghdad 1258. Tamurlane, late 14th century.

    The Germans had much, much farther to fall. And under Nazi rule, they did.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @ic1000

    It wasn't just a question of numbers. In Rwanda, Cambodia, the USSR etc. they killed a lot of people too but they used relatively crude tools such as machetes and pistols and buried people in mass graves.

    The special German genius was that they used the tools of the industrial revolution (railroad transportation networks, chemical engineering, mechanization, centralized record keeping and data tabulation, etc.) to build centralized factories where the input was humans from all over Europe and the output was ashes. Only the Germans had the special combination of industrial power and organization combined with a totally immoral ideology and the German belief that a job worth doing is worth doing well.

    And, as you say, they were not crude Asiatics but the people who sat at the pinnacle of Western science and culture - that is what made it even more scary.

  295. @ic1000
    @Jack D

    > There is NOTHING, and I mean nothing comparable in all of history to the death factories that the Nazis built in Poland.

    Boomers and younger generations don't recognize the awesomeness of late-19th-century Germany. It was the bright and shining star of science, technology, industry, and Western Civ generally.

    One could pick metrics to argue that the most successful steppe tribes (hordes) were proportionately more destructive and murderous. Baghdad 1258. Tamurlane, late 14th century.

    The Germans had much, much farther to fall. And under Nazi rule, they did.

    Replies: @Jack D

    It wasn’t just a question of numbers. In Rwanda, Cambodia, the USSR etc. they killed a lot of people too but they used relatively crude tools such as machetes and pistols and buried people in mass graves.

    The special German genius was that they used the tools of the industrial revolution (railroad transportation networks, chemical engineering, mechanization, centralized record keeping and data tabulation, etc.) to build centralized factories where the input was humans from all over Europe and the output was ashes. Only the Germans had the special combination of industrial power and organization combined with a totally immoral ideology and the German belief that a job worth doing is worth doing well.

    And, as you say, they were not crude Asiatics but the people who sat at the pinnacle of Western science and culture – that is what made it even more scary.

  296. @Dube
    @Jack D

    It's correct to say that there's another voice in the matter that is rarely heard.

    Replies: @Jack D

    I’ve heard their lies and false equivalencies before and am not interested in hearing them again any more than I want to debate with flat earthers and creationists. Some things are just not up for discussion.

    • Troll: Mike Tre
  297. @John Regan
    @JimDandy

    Thank you. I know that (as Steve's reply shows) I probably sound like a Martian to mainstream conservatives when I question the "Good War" myths. The pointing and shrieking your post got is an even better case in point. But I hope somehow it will still prove useful to someone in the end.

    I do wonder a little at this thing where Steve's favorite boys like Jack D get to post their comments right away while others have to wait hours or sometimes even days to get theirs published. I haven't noticed anything similar on most of the other blogs here at Unz. It seems to be a special thing for this one.

    It also looks suspiciously like a somewhat subtle means of depriving unpleasant perspectives of oxygen without smothering them outright.

    On the other hand Steve usually does let the posts through eventually and doesn't just ban them. So he should get credit for that much at least. And whether or not he likes me around here I for my part am still glad he's able to write his blog. Even if he has some issues where he won't leave the mainstream he too makes valuable contributions to many important discussions that are often censored elsewhere by people with narrower standards.

    Do I feel old sometimes when I remember the old Internet before censorship was really a thing...

    Replies: @JimDandy, @Reg Cæsar, @Mike Tre

    Sailer isn’t as fair as some suggest. He likes to wait 1-2 days sometimes to “moderate” some comments, so that by the time they are visible the discussion has movie on to a more recent post. He flushes at least one of my comments per month; comments that are free of slurs or slander or curses. He has called me a jerk outright for challenging him on his shameful covid beliefs, and for similar reasons, Ron Unz also restricted my original handle to one post per day and deleted any comments I made directly challenging him about it.

    Meanwhile obvious trolls are allowed to post, apparently unrestricted even though their content is clearly meant to do nothing but instigate. But I suppose if a single comment from a Chinese or negro troll generates 50 replies, it makes the post and its author look that much more popular.

    You haven’t been here long but have become one of my favorite contributors and I thank you for it.

    • Thanks: John Regan
  298. @Jack D
    @Moses

    It's in the news today that the statue of Robert E. Lee from Charlottesville (the one that was the subject of the "Unite the Right" rally) is going to be melted down and made into a new piece of public art by an African American heritage center.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/07/charlottesville-robert-e-lee-statue-melted

    What are the chances that the "new art" will be a statue of a black person? 100%? 110%?

    At first these statues were just going to be "relocated" (to the east, perhaps?), because "liberals" had qualms about destroying works of art. Remove them from a place of honor, sure, but put them somewhere else where they could be viewed in context as a product of their times. Maybe there would be a explanatory sign next to the statue informing us about the racist "Lost Cause" myth, telling us the "proper" way to think about it as a symbol of white privilege, yada, yada.

    But now we are literally in the iconoclastic phase of the Revolution. As you say, blacks don't really care for any history except for their own (not that whites ever cared much about black history either) and now that they are in charge they are going to literally remake history in their own image. We don't need no stinkin' explanatory signs, just melt that cracker.

    See, you boil the frog gradually. At first you are only removing the statue. Then you are melting it into unspecified "new art". Only in step 3 do you announce that it is going to be a statue of a Nat Turner or Toussaint Louverture. Or maybe Malcolm X since most blacks can't spell Toussaint Louverture.

    As Heine (almost) said, "Wherever they melt statues, in the end they will also melt human beings."

    Replies: @rebel yell, @Moses

    As you say, blacks don’t really care for any history except for their own (not that whites ever cared much about black history either)

    Yes, that was my point. Each race cares primarily about its own history, far less so history of other races. Totally normal and natural, like caring about your own family history more than the family down the street.

    Asians, Subcons, Middle Easterners and Blacks just don’t care about White American history. As far as they’re concerned, American history started only when their own group arrived in America.

    We Jews a good example of that. For us, American History started with Emma Lazarus and the huddled masses. Again, totally normal and natural. None of the Founders was a Jew. We didn’t arrive in numbers before the late 1800s.

    Melting down the Lee statue and recasting it into some kind of Black icon has tremendous symbolic power. The point is humiliation, subjugation and, yes I daresay, replacement.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri

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