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I don’t follow a lot of names and faces politics, but last week I pointed out that Speaker of the House frontrunner Kevin McCarthy was unsound on immigration policy.

And then he went away.

Now Paul Ryan, after his less than dynamic tryout as Veep nominee in 2012, is being pushed for Speaker. McCarthy of Bakersfield at least had home district excuses for being weak on immigration. But Ryan seems to be a genuine enthusiast, the kind of person who has learned nothing over the years.

From Breitbart:

‘VOTE FOR PAUL RYAN IS VOTE FOR AMNESTY’: LUIS GUTIERREZ ENDORSES PAUL RYAN FOR SPEAKER

by JULIA HAHN 9 Oct 2015

Democratic Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-IL) is endorsing Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) for Speaker of the House of Representatives. Gutierrez, perhaps the most extreme open-borders advocate in Congress, was interviewed on MSNBC.

As CNN is now reporting, “Democratic Rep. Luis Gutierrez on MSNBC called Ryan one of the smartest men in the GOP. ‘He would be good for the country,’ Gutierrez said. ‘He would be good for the Republican Party. Paul Ryan is the kind of individual that would work with people on the other side of the aisle and that’s what we need.’”

Gutierrez has worked tirelessly to expand immigration levels and open America’s borders up to the rest of the world. As Gutierrez once declared, “I have only one loyalty…and that’s to the immigrant community.”

Gutierrez and Paul Ryan have been longtime partners on efforts to open Americans borders. Indeed, Paul Ryan is arguably the most pro-amnesty GOP lawmaker in Congress, and even supports expanding immigration levels beyond many Democrats.

Many amnesty opponents believe that if Ryan had been House Speaker, rather than Rep. John Boehner (R-OH), the Gang of Eight bill would have been sent to President Obama’s desk.

 
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  1. I’m a fan of Lynn Westmoreland myself. He apparently was among those who opposed amnesty and urged Boehner not to bring it up.

  2. Might need to add a “learned” in the description of Paul Ryan as a man who has nothing over the years. Or maybe “done” would work, also.

    • Agree: tbraton
    • Replies: @Anonym
    @Hunsdon

    I think Steve forgot to put in "between" and typed "years" instead of "ears".

    As in, "But Ryan seems to be a genuine enthusiast, the kind of person who has nothing between the ears."

    Replies: @Hunsdon

  3. I never understood Romney’s selection of Ryan as his running mate in 2012, and I have never understood the enduring appeal of Ryan. He has never run for statewide office in Wisconsin. So, even in Wisconsin, his appeal seems to be somewhat limited. A career politician, sort of like Marco Rubio. At least Rubio ran for and won statewide office, but his decision not to run for reelection indicates that he was uncertain about his chances or he felt that he has a good shot at getting the VP slot. Isn’t there a contradiction between being an Ayn Rand enthusiast and being a career politician?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @tbraton


    I have never understood the enduring appeal of Ryan.
     
    It's due to nostalgia.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    @tbraton

    Ryan won repeatedly in blue collar Janesville, much like Jack Kemp did in (or near) Buffalo. That carries a lot of weight in Republican circles, who need but don't understand that vote.

    Replies: @tbraton, @Dave Pinsen, @Lot, @Bill, @Wilkey

    , @anonymous
    @tbraton

    Paul Rino was Bill Kristol's lapdog. He has since been replace by Tim Cotton. Tim has been promised the Veep slot on a Jeb Bush ticket.

    Replies: @EriK

    , @Mr. Anon
    @tbraton

    "Isn’t there a contradiction between being an Ayn Rand enthusiast and being a career politician?"

    There is (or one would assume ought to be) a contradiciton between actually knowing anything about Ayn Rand or having read one of her tedious books and being an Ayn Rand enthusiast. And yet that does not deter her enthusiasts.

    Replies: @tbraton

  4. @Hunsdon
    Might need to add a "learned" in the description of Paul Ryan as a man who has nothing over the years. Or maybe "done" would work, also.

    Replies: @Anonym

    I think Steve forgot to put in “between” and typed “years” instead of “ears”.

    As in, “But Ryan seems to be a genuine enthusiast, the kind of person who has nothing between the ears.”

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    @Anonym

    I think that would be an equally valid interpretation.

  5. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Somebody on the Breitbart forums made me laugh with the comment: “Why not just put Karl Rove in as Speaker and be done with it?” (Interesting to learn, there apparently really is no requirement that it be a serving House member.) Anyway I strongly suspected Paul Ryno was a dud when Romney picked him. And by the way, no rapport with white men who aren’t think-tank dorks– but he’s very tight with those. National Review, in one of those cartoony covers that are always mortally embarrassing exactly 12 months later, portrayed him FDR-style with the cigarette holder. Even before I knew he was the first Ayn-Rand-worshipping Roman Catholic God-botherer I had had enough of the creep. Ryno, I normally don’t recommend that a man just pack it in and start living off his wife’s riches but in your case you’d be doing less harm to the country

  6. Off Topic:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/10/get-rid-borders-completely/409501/

    The Case for Getting Rid of Borders—Completely

    No defensible moral framework regards foreigners as less deserving of rights than people born in the right place at the right time.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @meh

    All people should be free to move about the earth, uncaged by the arbitrary lines known as borders.

    That article is pretty much a one-stop shop of all the pro-immigrant boilerplate.

    The comments are the only redeeming feature; the argument is over how bad the article is.

    , @Anonymous
    @meh

    The Case for Getting Rid of Borders—Completely

    No defensible moral framework regards foreigners as less deserving of rights than people born in the right place at the right time.


    Alex (((Tabarok)))

    Replies: @ben tillman

    , @AnotherDad
    @meh



    No defensible moral framework regards foreigners as less deserving of rights than people born in the right place at the right time.
     
    Saw that too. Sheer idiocy.

    How about "no defensible moral framework for the Tabarrok kids living in his nice house ... they are no more deserving than foreign kids".

    Tabarrok, exhibits not just the moral idiocy he subscribes to others, but intellectual idiocy as well. He just can't see how full of holes his sweeping pronouncements are.

    Essentially he can't comprehend--or refuses to comprehend--two pretty obvious real (of real humans) concepts.
    1) That people have *collective* rights. That my neighbors and i can say clear a patch of ground and then say this is *our* village common (or field, or park, or country club) and belongs to *us* and no one else.
    2) That people are free to--and generally desire to--pass their rights on to their children. That "accident of birth" is in fact no accident at all. Some people are indeed born into families, tribes, nations that have achieved more and built up more pleasant existence in some way or another, but their good fortune is not "random" or an "accident". The people born into these situations are in fact the biological descendants of those who worked to make them nice places for their descendants.

    Tabarrok posing as a libertarian is actually a far left radical. "Anarchist" doesn't even capture it, because Tabarrok wants to keep people from forming their natural voluntary associations that would impede movement. (If you abolished the US government, Americans would voluntarily reform several of their own and establish a better, harder borders than exist now!) Tabarrok and his OpenBorders buddies are actually radically communist levelers, seeking to squash any sort of social organization but the ginormous super-state whose job is precisely to do such squashing, preventing any people from having their own private space.

    These folks are really this locus of evil in the world. Biological organization and complexity offends there autism and they simply wish to destroy and tear down anything that competent people build up.

    Replies: @NOTA

    , @AnAnon
    @meh

    "No defensible moral framework" - one dedicated to promoting group fitness. and that is defensible because all other moral frameworks will cease to exist.

  7. I don’t care who the Dead Elephants select as their Chief Liar. Just so he doesn’t start bawling every time he walks by a statue of Gerald R. Ford

    • Replies: @American realist
    @Haxo Angmark

    May I respectfully suggest that if you care about immigration (as is likely since you're reading Steve Sailer, who correctly describes it as "the Big Issue") you should care about who the next Speaker is since he'll determine whether 'comprehensive immigration reform' (aka amnesty, at least up to now) comes to a vote, where it may well pass.

  8. Ryan has done work on ‘entitlement reform’:

    Courageous Reforms in Ryan’s Entitlements Road Map: Where Is the Democratic Response?

    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    As noted before — America’s Evolving Look: Census Shows White Deaths Outpace Births

    These stark facts are the (usually) unspoken background to elite support for immigration and amnesty. People who prefer someone more ‘reliable’ on immigration and amnesty must address the above issues.

    • Replies: @Chris L
    @eah

    Lower birth rates are the result of birth control and the sexual revolution. Plus it doesn't help when the people who are heavily taxed to support the above entitlements (whites who have kids) are paying for the kids of their replacements. Finally, the last part of reduced white population is that technology has reduced the need for +7 kid families. Had the US maintained the pre-65 immigration policy, I think we would be seeing an up swing on white births and a more conservative country. Without the flood of new voters, the Democrats would be struggling to survive since Democrats tend not to have as many kids.

    With the current flood of foreigners, there is no way white birth rates can rebound fast enough to solve the problem.

    Replies: @bomag

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @eah

    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    Of course they're unsustainable--the unsustainability is built in to them. They're Ponzi schemes, and every Ponzi scheme is unsustainable.

    The other important point is that we're not going to sustain anything by importing millions of immigrants who are a net loss to the national budget rather than a net gain. We're only going to accelerate our collapse.

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Jesse, @The Anti-Gnostic, @anonymous, @Reg Cæsar

    , @Honorary Thief
    @eah

    I don't see the welfare state as a good thing. I don't even see population growth as a good thing. Two hundred fifty million people would have been plenty.

    , @MarkinLA
    @eah

    In a homogeneous society the ability to alter those programs to the present situation is actually enhanced. In a heterogeneous society it is harder.

    You have our situation:

    I have been paying in all these years and plenty of immigrants and their elderly parents have been draining the system. Now you want to cut my benefits to make it easier on those immigrants paying in, many who are still getting welfare to boot? More immigration just makes this worse.

    You have the Japanese situation:

    The Japanese elderly are causing a drain on the system. They see that their children and grandchildren are the ones being hurt. Due to this generational wealth transfer the Japanese elderly have far more than they need. If means testing is applied to the elderly it will just reduce the amount of wealth that will be transferred on their death to their children and grandchildren. That is an easier sell to make to the people.

    , @ben tillman
    @eah


    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    As noted before — America’s Evolving Look: Census Shows White Deaths Outpace Births

    These stark facts are the (usually) unspoken background to elite support for immigration and amnesty. People who prefer someone more ‘reliable’ on immigration and amnesty must address the above issues.
     

    I couldn't disagree more. (1) Old people don't want immigration. (2) Even if they did, it wouldn't make the Ponzi scheme sustainable. (3) Even if they did and it did, there's no reason to think politicians would do what the people wanted.
  9. Anagrams of Luis Vicente Gutiérrez

    Uterus electing vizir.
    ‘Tiz clever uteri using.
    Vizir: “U.S. neglect uteri.”
    ‘Tiz clever intrigue, US.

    I lettuce zinger virus.
    Vizir: “Use lettuce.” *Grin*
    Lettuce urges vizir in.
    Lettuce surge. Vizir in.
    Lettuce ire. Snug vizir.
    Vizir reign US. Lettuce.
    Vizir: “Ruing lettuces?”

  10. Guitierrez is so confident in an inexorable demographic wave that he doesn’t stop to consider his endorsement of Ryan is unhelpful to his cause.

  11. @tbraton
    I never understood Romney's selection of Ryan as his running mate in 2012, and I have never understood the enduring appeal of Ryan. He has never run for statewide office in Wisconsin. So, even in Wisconsin, his appeal seems to be somewhat limited. A career politician, sort of like Marco Rubio. At least Rubio ran for and won statewide office, but his decision not to run for reelection indicates that he was uncertain about his chances or he felt that he has a good shot at getting the VP slot. Isn't there a contradiction between being an Ayn Rand enthusiast and being a career politician?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @anonymous, @Mr. Anon

    I have never understood the enduring appeal of Ryan.

    It’s due to nostalgia.

  12. @eah
    Ryan has done work on 'entitlement reform':

    Courageous Reforms in Ryan's Entitlements Road Map: Where Is the Democratic Response?

    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    As noted before -- America's Evolving Look: Census Shows White Deaths Outpace Births

    These stark facts are the (usually) unspoken background to elite support for immigration and amnesty. People who prefer someone more 'reliable' on immigration and amnesty must address the above issues.

    Replies: @Chris L, @Harry Baldwin, @Honorary Thief, @MarkinLA, @ben tillman

    Lower birth rates are the result of birth control and the sexual revolution. Plus it doesn’t help when the people who are heavily taxed to support the above entitlements (whites who have kids) are paying for the kids of their replacements. Finally, the last part of reduced white population is that technology has reduced the need for +7 kid families. Had the US maintained the pre-65 immigration policy, I think we would be seeing an up swing on white births and a more conservative country. Without the flood of new voters, the Democrats would be struggling to survive since Democrats tend not to have as many kids.

    With the current flood of foreigners, there is no way white birth rates can rebound fast enough to solve the problem.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Chris L

    there is no way white birth rates can rebound

    Demographics may have gotten us into these problems, but it is not going to get us out of them.

    Labor is becoming a smaller component of economic activity. Machines and capital will generate future wealth. Chasing more people for more wealth is a fool's game.

  13. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    He looked like a goof the moment I saw him. First impressions are often the most accurate. I could never figure out why Romney chose him. Except for some minor work as a young person he seems to mostly have worked in politics so he’s really just another politician with little connection to the workaday world of most people. Yeah, lets all vote for people who have no loyalty to us but care more about the non-citizens who want to move here.

  14. • Replies: @Romanian
    @anonymous-antimarxist

    Lol that creepy kid has my eyebrows and widow's peak. Is that a TV character?

  15. Last summer, Paul Ryan put out a book as a means of testing the waters for a presidential bid. He appeared several times on WIBC, the major NeoCon/Cuckservative talk radio station in Indianapolis and an Emmis Communications property. “Emmis” means “Truth” in Yiddish/Hebrew and specializes in state of art controlled opposition/ Hasbara propaganda. Emmis is owned and managed by the Ultra Zionist puppetmaster Jeff Smulyan who is also the man behind the Alex Jones phenomena.

    At the time Paul Ryan was attempting to tell everyone who would listen that he had become a born again Immigration Patriot. I don’t think the Republican base was buying it, because a year ago WIBC callers were calling for Paul Ryan’s head along Boehner’s and the rest of the beltway Cucks. Today, WIBC no longer takes listener calls.

    Having never came close to getting a stealth Amnesty Presidential campaign off the ground, Paul Ryan the House Speaker would sure to accomplish his rabid 25 year “Libertardian” dream of destroying America with Open Borders.

  16. What happened to Syon?

    • Replies: @Bert
    @David

    Hopefully gone forever.

    , @Bill
    @David

    Well, these robot machine thingies drilled in through its ceiling. Simultaneously, Curtis Yarvin went to machine city to ram some blue pills down the head robot's throat or read them some poetry or talk about the soulful black chick who smokes a lot. Cookies? Was he taking them cookies?

    , @MarkinLA
    @David

    I thought he was an English professor. School may have started.

    , @Hacienda
    @David

    He was un-Unzed.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @David


    What happened to Syon?

     

    If you play the record backwards, "syon" becomes "noise".
  17. Ryan was key in making the sequester happen. He seems very good at spreading pain equally between democratic & republican pet projects.

    There are other issues besides immigration…

    • Replies: @Chris L
    @tformation

    Not anymore there isn't. We lose this final immigration battle and nothing else matters. We'll be constantly swamped by the voting of the "new" Americans for whatever free stuff they can get.

    Plus, when you can't even ax the ExIm bank, how much of a budget cutter are you? It's more like, I'm going to cut all of the welfare programs that the middle class pays for, give tax breaks to corporations, continue crony capitalism, and make sure your kids never pay off their college loans as I flood the country with H1-B's.

    Replies: @tformation

    , @Spoons
    @tformation

    "There are other issues besides immigration…"

    No there aren't. How much do you really care about whether or not some random 3rd world country manages its budget? Very, very little. So why would you care about the budget of the random 3rd world country that America is being replaced by?

    , @AnAnon
    @tformation

    "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

  18. @eah
    Ryan has done work on 'entitlement reform':

    Courageous Reforms in Ryan's Entitlements Road Map: Where Is the Democratic Response?

    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    As noted before -- America's Evolving Look: Census Shows White Deaths Outpace Births

    These stark facts are the (usually) unspoken background to elite support for immigration and amnesty. People who prefer someone more 'reliable' on immigration and amnesty must address the above issues.

    Replies: @Chris L, @Harry Baldwin, @Honorary Thief, @MarkinLA, @ben tillman

    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    Of course they’re unsustainable–the unsustainability is built in to them. They’re Ponzi schemes, and every Ponzi scheme is unsustainable.

    The other important point is that we’re not going to sustain anything by importing millions of immigrants who are a net loss to the national budget rather than a net gain. We’re only going to accelerate our collapse.

    • Replies: @iSteveFan
    @Harry Baldwin


    The other important point is that we’re not going to sustain anything by importing millions of immigrants who are a net loss to the national budget rather than a net gain. We’re only going to accelerate our collapse.
     
    Good point and one that the open borders side is never asked to explain. On the other hand I am growing quite tired of our side forever having to defend not wanting mass immigration in light of declining birth rates. We are told immigration is non-negotiable because we are not having enough kids and our social safety nets will fail. Yet they never have to explain how importing millions of net tax consumers is going to fix it.

    It seems fair that if the preservation of the social safety net is an important issue over the the immigration debate, then immigration policy should at least help this issue, not exacerbate it. Yet if they took this issue into consideration, family unification would immediately be tossed and means-testing to determine the potential job prospects of an immigrant would become paramount. This of course would lead to a drastic reduction in immigration. And that is why it is not done. For the main reason of immigration is not to fix the social safety net, but to permanently alter Western demographics.

    Replies: @Jesse, @ben tillman

    , @Jesse
    @Harry Baldwin

    Indeed. Entitlements, especially towards the elderly and retirees are predicated on things like racial homogeneity, no immigration and the elderly dying quickly and relatively early. (In other words, Zeke Emanuel is completely right on the last one.)

    Any whining about entitlement that doesn't take on race, immigration and old people living too long is simply pandering to the oligarchs. (It would also help if those doing it went after the cops' and firefighters' pensions with the same vehemence with which they go after teachers. Don't think people don't notice the demographics.)

    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Harry Baldwin

    No! Our immigrants are Magic Immigrants who never get old or sick!

    , @anonymous
    @Harry Baldwin

    Paul Rino wanted to screw seniors and use the money to increase the military AND he thought his great ideas were going to help Romney become president. As Trump would say, LOSER.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Harry Baldwin


    …we’re not going to sustain anything by importing millions of immigrants who are a net loss to the national budget rather than a net gain.
     
    Right outta vaudeville: "I lost money on each one, but made it up in volume!"
  19. As two comments have already noted, Paul Ryan is an Ayn Rand devotee, which is as dangerous on immigration policy as on monetary policy:

    http://openborders.info/ayn-rand-immigration-obvious/

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/opinion/krugman-galt-gold-and-god.html

    Jason Chaffetz is much better than Ryan (or the unintelligible Kevin McCarthy–Rachel Maddow segment linked below is funny) on immigration; I’m not sure if there’s another candidate for Speaker who’s better still. As Mickey Kaus tweeted, “Opponents of amnesty will have to mobilize against Paul Ryan. Get your dialing fingers ready.” Leave your rep a message today and call again tomorrow when offices are open. Show you care. If the permanent-war, climate-change denying, Wall Street stooges Republican Party won’t enforce our borders it has no reason to exist.

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/my/congress/1328/gradescoresheet

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/clumsy-speech-marks-odd-choice-for-speaker-540695619883

    • Replies: @advancedatheist
    @American realist


    Paul Ryan is an Ayn Rand devotee
     
    Ayn Rand comes across now as basically a leftist intellectual who held some contrarian views on politics and economics. She promoted and practiced the key damaging policies of modern feminism: women's sexual freedom, open marriages, abortion, contraception, irreligion, not having children, college educations and careers for women.

    Immigration hadn't become the crisis during her lifetime that it has become since, so I don't know what she wrote about it, if anything. But it wouldn't surprise me if as an Ashkenazi Jewish immigrant herself she supported open borders like the other intellectuals in her people.

    Replies: @Lot

    , @Lot
    @American realist

    Webster (FL) is better than Chaffetz on immigration. Both are good on most issues, but Chaffetz is weak on skilled immigrant visas.

    Chaffetz has done more on the issue though, serving as co sponsor of some patriotic bills and also knocking off a pro amnesty republican in a primary, both gaining us a vote and serving to scare other Republicans.

    I'd be happy either way.

    , @anonymous
    @American realist

    Chaffetz is conservative Republican former Jewish Democrat-turned Mormon and right-winger whose stepmother is Kitty Dukakis.

    Replies: @e

  20. Promotes open borders and amnesty. Lives in Wisconsin.

    • Replies: @Ivy
    @wonderbread

    Gutierrez has astutely determined that the vital Green Bay route must be protected at all cost.
    His goal is to turn Cheeseheads into QuesoCabezas.

    He is yet another example of a Representative forgetting his Oath of Office, especially that pesky US Constitution component.

    I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Anonym
    @wonderbread

    That's a scumbag steve meme. Nice.

  21. Does anyone know the House GOP equivalent to Senator Jeff Sessions, the Senate’s immigration patriot? If such a GOP Rep. currently exists, perhaps a “draft…what’s his name” could be offered as an alternative for Speaker?

    • Replies: @Milo Minderbinder
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Steve King from Iowa?

  22. iSteveFan says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    @eah

    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    Of course they're unsustainable--the unsustainability is built in to them. They're Ponzi schemes, and every Ponzi scheme is unsustainable.

    The other important point is that we're not going to sustain anything by importing millions of immigrants who are a net loss to the national budget rather than a net gain. We're only going to accelerate our collapse.

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Jesse, @The Anti-Gnostic, @anonymous, @Reg Cæsar

    The other important point is that we’re not going to sustain anything by importing millions of immigrants who are a net loss to the national budget rather than a net gain. We’re only going to accelerate our collapse.

    Good point and one that the open borders side is never asked to explain. On the other hand I am growing quite tired of our side forever having to defend not wanting mass immigration in light of declining birth rates. We are told immigration is non-negotiable because we are not having enough kids and our social safety nets will fail. Yet they never have to explain how importing millions of net tax consumers is going to fix it.

    It seems fair that if the preservation of the social safety net is an important issue over the the immigration debate, then immigration policy should at least help this issue, not exacerbate it. Yet if they took this issue into consideration, family unification would immediately be tossed and means-testing to determine the potential job prospects of an immigrant would become paramount. This of course would lead to a drastic reduction in immigration. And that is why it is not done. For the main reason of immigration is not to fix the social safety net, but to permanently alter Western demographics.

    • Replies: @Jesse
    @iSteveFan

    "We are told immigration is non-negotiable because we are not having enough kids and our social safety nets will fail."

    Which is something that gets on my wick about Conservatism Inc. There's no sense that hey, maybe white people should be lauded for not wanting to raise children in poverty. I once saw some moron saying that we should all have bebbehz early because if you wait until you're financially ready, it might never happen. That is an excellent reason for burning the entire society down, but they're too stupid to even ask why we're not breeding as they say we should.

    And then they demand open borders. That exacerbates the very issues depressing the smart white birthrate - and have you noticed that they think people who want decent wages are "entitled" and "parasites", but if they decide they deserve cheap, cheerful and subsidized peons to wipe their asses/build cheapo houses/mow their lawns/whatever, they're - something else, apparently?

    , @ben tillman
    @iSteveFan


    Good point and one that the open borders side is never asked to explain. On the other hand I am growing quite tired of our side forever having to defend not wanting mass immigration in light of declining birth rates. We are told immigration is non-negotiable because we are not having enough kids and our social safety nets will fail. Yet they never have to explain how importing millions of net tax consumers is going to fix it.
     
    You're right, and there are other questions they won't answer. Like why should we accept the permanent death of the group in exchange for a few more more years of life for some of the group members. It's a stupid hedonistic perspective.
  23. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Great Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    My Cousin gave me the Grand Tour of Janesville Wisconsin around ten years ago. My Cousins live a few streets over from the Ryans. The Ryan’s home isn’t ostentacious at all. Its been expanded with extensions…but nothing like what you would see in Llyod Harbor …like War Criminal Sean Hannity’s massive Castle on the Sound not too far from Target Rock where the Chinese Legal Immigrants leave tons of garbage while the fish by Target Rock…I’m talking like at most ten yards from Sean Hannity’s back yard.

    I met Paul Ryan’s Mother at Sunday Mass at the Janesville Catholic Church where she is an usher with my aunt. My Cousin graduated with Paul Ryan from the same high school.

    My other cousin works at Saint Mary’s Hospital…a large Hospital…in Janesville Wisconsin. I asked him:”so, you must have a lot of nonwhite foreigners working at Saint Marys”…He replied:”hardly any at all”…”95 percent of the people we hire are White locals from Janesville”

    The Ryan construction company built a large extension to Saint Mary’s back in the 1990’s.

    Paul Ryan is a pure-unadulturated Sociopath. Like other Greedy Cheating Class big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ White Males…he is waging an irreversible demographic war on The Historic Native Born White American Working Class Majority in the name of wage slavery….And here is their Labor Policy:deny The Historic Native Born White American Working Class the very great benefit of a severe labor scarcity which is a very high real wage.

    The passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act was a massive gift in the form of a high fertility-highly racialized-nonwhite scab labor-legal immigrant Democratic Party Voting Bloc to Greedy Cheating Evil Sociopaths such as Paul Ryan and his fellow Evil Greedy Cheating White Oligarch Friends(or is it Fiends?).

  24. @Harry Baldwin
    @eah

    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    Of course they're unsustainable--the unsustainability is built in to them. They're Ponzi schemes, and every Ponzi scheme is unsustainable.

    The other important point is that we're not going to sustain anything by importing millions of immigrants who are a net loss to the national budget rather than a net gain. We're only going to accelerate our collapse.

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Jesse, @The Anti-Gnostic, @anonymous, @Reg Cæsar

    Indeed. Entitlements, especially towards the elderly and retirees are predicated on things like racial homogeneity, no immigration and the elderly dying quickly and relatively early. (In other words, Zeke Emanuel is completely right on the last one.)

    Any whining about entitlement that doesn’t take on race, immigration and old people living too long is simply pandering to the oligarchs. (It would also help if those doing it went after the cops’ and firefighters’ pensions with the same vehemence with which they go after teachers. Don’t think people don’t notice the demographics.)

  25. Believing in borders makes one literally Hitler.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    @AndrewR

    If I recall correctly, Hitler wasnt all that committed to the sanctity of borders. Particularly not the borders of, say, Poland, Czechloslavakia, Austria, France, Belgium, Russia, or the Netherlands.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @AndrewR, @Jeremiahjohnbalaya

    , @JSM
    @AndrewR

    No, Andrew. It is not possible to *literally* become Hitler.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Reg Cæsar

    , @fish
    @AndrewR


    hy·per·bo·le

    hīˈpərbəlē/

    noun

    exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

    synonyms: exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, embroidery, embellishment, excess, overkill, rhetoric;
     
    It eludes them.....
  26. I pointed this out on an earlier thread. Ryan is so fanatically pro-open borders that in 1994, well before he became a congressman, he actively campaigned against California’s Prop 187 with Jack Kemp, and penned a 4,000 word rebuttal to National Review’s pro-187 editorial.

    The fallout from establishment’s effort to block the democratically-passed 187 is now obvious. Just look at the endless torrent of radical leftist legislation pouring forth from Sacramento, the fact that whites are now barely a plurality in California and well on their way to becoming an outright minority, or the fact that while California voted for Republican presidents thrice in the 1980s, it has not voted for a Republican since.

    Boehner, whatever his other real and alleged weaknesses, at least could be counted on to stop amnesty. Ryan is an ideological extremist, and will be a disaster for the GOP.

  27. @Haxo Angmark
    I don't care who the Dead Elephants select as their Chief Liar. Just so he doesn't start bawling every time he walks by a statue of Gerald R. Ford

    Replies: @American realist

    May I respectfully suggest that if you care about immigration (as is likely since you’re reading Steve Sailer, who correctly describes it as “the Big Issue”) you should care about who the next Speaker is since he’ll determine whether ‘comprehensive immigration reform’ (aka amnesty, at least up to now) comes to a vote, where it may well pass.

  28. Actually if amnesty passed people might be so angry they would vote for an anti-immigration president.

  29. Amnesty for illegals is the new litmus test for any position in Republican leadership. Almost all repub. politicians owe too much to big business, restaurant organizations and small business associations for it not to be. So those republicans try to pretend that other issues are bigger than immigration, despite Trump’s overwhelming initial popularity. Yes, the debt is at society collapsing levels, but immigration is still the biggest issue.

    • Agree: Mike Sylwester
  30. @meh
    Off Topic:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/10/get-rid-borders-completely/409501/

    The Case for Getting Rid of Borders—Completely

    No defensible moral framework regards foreigners as less deserving of rights than people born in the right place at the right time.
     

    Replies: @bomag, @Anonymous, @AnotherDad, @AnAnon

    All people should be free to move about the earth, uncaged by the arbitrary lines known as borders.

    That article is pretty much a one-stop shop of all the pro-immigrant boilerplate.

    The comments are the only redeeming feature; the argument is over how bad the article is.

  31. @Harry Baldwin
    @eah

    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    Of course they're unsustainable--the unsustainability is built in to them. They're Ponzi schemes, and every Ponzi scheme is unsustainable.

    The other important point is that we're not going to sustain anything by importing millions of immigrants who are a net loss to the national budget rather than a net gain. We're only going to accelerate our collapse.

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Jesse, @The Anti-Gnostic, @anonymous, @Reg Cæsar

    No! Our immigrants are Magic Immigrants who never get old or sick!

  32. @David
    What happened to Syon?

    Replies: @Bert, @Bill, @MarkinLA, @Hacienda, @Reg Cæsar

    Hopefully gone forever.

    • Agree: Dave Pinsen
  33. I’m sure this is O/T, but since everyone wants to replace the persons on the ten and twenty dollar bill, when are we going to rename #ColumbusDay what it really is, namely, #CisHetWhiteMalePrivilegeDay ?

    Schools would be closed, of course. But banks and financial institutions should remain open, because, after all, that’s how we make money and maintain our privilege. Just a thought: but if you ever wanted a day for plain old white guys, this seems like the most likely candidate.

  34. Off topic but should be of interest to most:

    “Black Americans Would Have Been Better Off Renting Than Buying”

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/10/black-americans-homeowners/410041/

  35. We know that Ryan is an Open Borders shill but of course that doesn’t win him any points with the Left.

    The picture linked below was circulated extensively on Facebook during 2012:

  36. advancedatheist [AKA "RedneckCryonicist"] says:
    @American realist
    As two comments have already noted, Paul Ryan is an Ayn Rand devotee, which is as dangerous on immigration policy as on monetary policy:

    http://openborders.info/ayn-rand-immigration-obvious/

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/opinion/krugman-galt-gold-and-god.html

    Jason Chaffetz is much better than Ryan (or the unintelligible Kevin McCarthy--Rachel Maddow segment linked below is funny) on immigration; I'm not sure if there's another candidate for Speaker who's better still. As Mickey Kaus tweeted, "Opponents of amnesty will have to mobilize against Paul Ryan. Get your dialing fingers ready." Leave your rep a message today and call again tomorrow when offices are open. Show you care. If the permanent-war, climate-change denying, Wall Street stooges Republican Party won't enforce our borders it has no reason to exist.

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/my/congress/1328/gradescoresheet

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/clumsy-speech-marks-odd-choice-for-speaker-540695619883

    Replies: @advancedatheist, @Lot, @anonymous

    Paul Ryan is an Ayn Rand devotee

    Ayn Rand comes across now as basically a leftist intellectual who held some contrarian views on politics and economics. She promoted and practiced the key damaging policies of modern feminism: women’s sexual freedom, open marriages, abortion, contraception, irreligion, not having children, college educations and careers for women.

    Immigration hadn’t become the crisis during her lifetime that it has become since, so I don’t know what she wrote about it, if anything. But it wouldn’t surprise me if as an Ashkenazi Jewish immigrant herself she supported open borders like the other intellectuals in her people.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @advancedatheist


    Ayn Rand comes across now as basically a leftist intellectual who held some contrarian views on politics and economics.
     
    While I can understand your view, I don't think it involves a very useful definition of "leftist." If Rand is leftist, so are 95% of Americans and 98% of Western Europeans and Canadians.

    But it wouldn’t surprise me if as an Ashkenazi Jewish immigrant herself she supported open borders like the other intellectuals in her people.
     

    You're simply wrong that most Ashkenazi believe in open boarders. Not even Bernie Sanders does. And Jewish organizations were usually opposed to mass immigration through the 1970's.

    Rand likely believed in liberal but not open boarders, but given the huge demographic shift in the world since she died 35 years ago, I am not so sure she'd do so now. While the various Koch-funded libertarian groups are open-boarders radicals (CATO, Mercatus Center, Competitive Enterprise Institute), a second group centered around the Ludwig von Mises Institute are opposed to mass immigration.

    As an aside, the open boarders libertarians are funded by the gentile Koch brothers and have as their leaders Ed Crane (CATO), Fred Smith (CEI) and Tyler Cowen (Mercatus). And then there is the extreme pro-Muslim immigration Grover Norquist.

    The patriotic libertarian von Mises Institute is named for a Jew and two of the three founders were Jewish (Murray Rothbard, Burt Blumert, Lew Rockwell).

    Which camp Rand would fall into now is an interesting question. On one hand, she made a few vaguely open boarders comments here and there. And her heir Leonard Peikoff is a open boarders zealot. On the other hand, she was right on race, opposing the Civil Rights Act, not just at the time, but continued to criticize it until she died. That was a pretty rare position outside of the South.

    To give an idea of how popular the 1964 Act was outside of the South, of Ohio's 23 congressmen (17 of them Republicans), 22 voted for it. Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York, with a combined 75 or so seats, there was not a single no vote. Illinois had one no vote out of 24. Only six Republicans voted against it in the Senate, the half-Ashkenazi Barry Goldwater and 5 others who supported him in the '64 GOP primary. Not a single senator representing the Midwest, West Coast, or Northeast voted against it.

    Replies: @Lot, @AndrewR

  37. The whole “We need immigrants to pay for Social Security” has always been a lame argument but its good boob bait, since it appeals to Half-smart people who *think* they know about Economics – and want to support immigration.

    Interesting that only NOW do we hear about what a Immigration shill Ryan is. I don’t remember anyone talking about this when he was picked as V-P. Another interesting thing is that except for Bush I picking Quayle in 1988, the “Establishment” never picks a *Real* conservative for VP. No uniting the party when they are in charge.

    1976 – Ford refuses to offer Reagan the VP – Gives it to GOPe Dole
    1996 – Dole picks open borders shill Jack Kemp as his VP
    2000- Bush II picks Cheney, longtime GOPe buddy of Gerald Ford
    2012 – Romney picks open borders shill Ryan

    2008 is the only one that breaks the pattern and that only happened because McCain first choice for VP – liberal Democrat (and open border supporter) Joe Liebermann would have started a nasty convention fight and McCain’s aides finally convinced him it was “unpossible”. With time running out, and needing a “game changer” McCain decided to pick a woman – so we got Palin.

  38. Not only is California gone deep blue because Prop 187 was stopped but its now about to get EVEN BLUER. The Democrats first gave drivers licenses to illegals and now are automatically adding them to the voter rolls.

    Of course, its still “technically” illegal to vote when you aren’t a citizen or under 18, but since its against California law to ask if you’re a citizen – that’s irrelevant. BTW, you don’t have to speak English or even show up to vote. Basically, any Bi-ped with driver’s licensee can now vote. Wonder what party they’ll vote for? Hmm….

  39. Luis Guitierrez to Newsweek in 2010: “I have only one loyalty,” he says, “and that’s to the immigrant community.”

    http://www.newsweek.com/pushing-obama-immigration-reform-70093

    It doesn’t matter to Guitierrez if Ryan is right-winger who wants to pare down the welfare state as long as Ryan supports more immigration.

  40. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Does anyone know the House GOP equivalent to Senator Jeff Sessions, the Senate's immigration patriot? If such a GOP Rep. currently exists, perhaps a "draft...what's his name" could be offered as an alternative for Speaker?

    Replies: @Milo Minderbinder

    Steve King from Iowa?

  41. Hi Steve,

    I bicycled in the Obama Hyde Park Chicago neighborhood where I was born and raised.

    I noticed that there is a Jewish synagogue less than one block from Obama’s mansion that looks, to me at least, like an Islamic mosque!

    Sort of weird, but so was the rapid rise of an obscure Illinois state representative Barack Obama – the bastard son of a Kenyan Muslim to US Senator and President of the United States

    Here’s our take:

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2015/10/12/15th-century-spain-muslims-jews-and-our-guys/

    I would enjoy hearing the Steve Sailer interpretation.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @jack ryan

    The neighborhood where the Obamas bought their house is where the higher-ups of the Black Muslims have bought their houses. That was, in effect, Obama's explanation for bringing in Tony Rezko to help him find and buy a house in that neighborhood: Rezko had a lot of experience buying and selling in that neighborhood. What went without saying is that Rezko was long the business manager of the Black Muslims / Nation of Islam.

    , @Hibernian
    @jack ryan

    That synagogue is K.A. M. Isaiah Israel. It's never been a mosque and has been around a long time,

  42. @iSteveFan
    @Harry Baldwin


    The other important point is that we’re not going to sustain anything by importing millions of immigrants who are a net loss to the national budget rather than a net gain. We’re only going to accelerate our collapse.
     
    Good point and one that the open borders side is never asked to explain. On the other hand I am growing quite tired of our side forever having to defend not wanting mass immigration in light of declining birth rates. We are told immigration is non-negotiable because we are not having enough kids and our social safety nets will fail. Yet they never have to explain how importing millions of net tax consumers is going to fix it.

    It seems fair that if the preservation of the social safety net is an important issue over the the immigration debate, then immigration policy should at least help this issue, not exacerbate it. Yet if they took this issue into consideration, family unification would immediately be tossed and means-testing to determine the potential job prospects of an immigrant would become paramount. This of course would lead to a drastic reduction in immigration. And that is why it is not done. For the main reason of immigration is not to fix the social safety net, but to permanently alter Western demographics.

    Replies: @Jesse, @ben tillman

    “We are told immigration is non-negotiable because we are not having enough kids and our social safety nets will fail.”

    Which is something that gets on my wick about Conservatism Inc. There’s no sense that hey, maybe white people should be lauded for not wanting to raise children in poverty. I once saw some moron saying that we should all have bebbehz early because if you wait until you’re financially ready, it might never happen. That is an excellent reason for burning the entire society down, but they’re too stupid to even ask why we’re not breeding as they say we should.

    And then they demand open borders. That exacerbates the very issues depressing the smart white birthrate – and have you noticed that they think people who want decent wages are “entitled” and “parasites”, but if they decide they deserve cheap, cheerful and subsidized peons to wipe their asses/build cheapo houses/mow their lawns/whatever, they’re – something else, apparently?

  43. I have only one loyalty…and that’s to the immigrant community.

    Ya gotta lol at how far we’ve fallen.

    I remember something in some dead tree document written by stale pale males about all members of congress having to take an oath to support the Constitution….

    must not be in there anymore, otherwise this representative would be in trouble, legally, for violating his oath.

    Also, remember when people had loyalty to God, country, and family?

    So antiquated, I know.

  44. @meh
    Off Topic:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/10/get-rid-borders-completely/409501/

    The Case for Getting Rid of Borders—Completely

    No defensible moral framework regards foreigners as less deserving of rights than people born in the right place at the right time.
     

    Replies: @bomag, @Anonymous, @AnotherDad, @AnAnon

    The Case for Getting Rid of Borders—Completely

    No defensible moral framework regards foreigners as less deserving of rights than people born in the right place at the right time.

    Alex (((Tabarok)))

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Anonymous


    No defensible moral framework regards foreigners as less deserving of rights than people born in the right place at the right time.

    Alex (((Tabarok)))
     
    Even his thesis is a lie. The point isn' that foreigners don't have rights; it's that they don't have non-rights like the "right" to commit aggression. They don't have the right to take/use/enjoy what the natives have produced.
  45. For CisWhiteHet Privilege day, everyone spends the day using modern technology, taking part in the fruits of industrial democracy and modern science, and enjoying enormous personal freedom and safety.

  46. @AndrewR
    Believing in borders makes one literally Hitler.

    Replies: @NOTA, @JSM, @fish

    If I recall correctly, Hitler wasnt all that committed to the sanctity of borders. Particularly not the borders of, say, Poland, Czechloslavakia, Austria, France, Belgium, Russia, or the Netherlands.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @NOTA

    Don't forget Denmark, Norway, Luxembourg, Yugoslavia…

    , @AndrewR
    @NOTA

    that's what makes leftist outrage about immigration restriction so absurd

    , @Jeremiahjohnbalaya
    @NOTA

    That would make a great image, bumper sticker, or t-shirt. Something like "Hitler Supported Open Borders" and then a map showing his armies bursting through the borders of various countries.

  47. @wonderbread
    Promotes open borders and amnesty. Lives in Wisconsin.

    Replies: @Ivy, @Anonym

    Gutierrez has astutely determined that the vital Green Bay route must be protected at all cost.
    His goal is to turn Cheeseheads into QuesoCabezas.

    He is yet another example of a Representative forgetting his Oath of Office, especially that pesky US Constitution component.

    I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Ivy


    Gutierrez has astutely determined that the vital Green Bay route must be protected at all cost.
     
    I think the Hmong got to Titletown first.
  48. @Chris L
    @eah

    Lower birth rates are the result of birth control and the sexual revolution. Plus it doesn't help when the people who are heavily taxed to support the above entitlements (whites who have kids) are paying for the kids of their replacements. Finally, the last part of reduced white population is that technology has reduced the need for +7 kid families. Had the US maintained the pre-65 immigration policy, I think we would be seeing an up swing on white births and a more conservative country. Without the flood of new voters, the Democrats would be struggling to survive since Democrats tend not to have as many kids.

    With the current flood of foreigners, there is no way white birth rates can rebound fast enough to solve the problem.

    Replies: @bomag

    there is no way white birth rates can rebound

    Demographics may have gotten us into these problems, but it is not going to get us out of them.

    Labor is becoming a smaller component of economic activity. Machines and capital will generate future wealth. Chasing more people for more wealth is a fool’s game.

  49. @tbraton
    I never understood Romney's selection of Ryan as his running mate in 2012, and I have never understood the enduring appeal of Ryan. He has never run for statewide office in Wisconsin. So, even in Wisconsin, his appeal seems to be somewhat limited. A career politician, sort of like Marco Rubio. At least Rubio ran for and won statewide office, but his decision not to run for reelection indicates that he was uncertain about his chances or he felt that he has a good shot at getting the VP slot. Isn't there a contradiction between being an Ayn Rand enthusiast and being a career politician?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @anonymous, @Mr. Anon

    Ryan won repeatedly in blue collar Janesville, much like Jack Kemp did in (or near) Buffalo. That carries a lot of weight in Republican circles, who need but don’t understand that vote.

    • Replies: @tbraton
    @Reg Cæsar

    Jack Kemp was another Congressman who never ran for statewide office but still managed to get nominated for VP on the Dole ticket. He was also very liberal when it came to immigration. This is what he said in 2004 in the San Diego Union:

    "Anti-immigration politicians and candidates fail to realize a few fundamental truths, the most important of which is that we are an immigrant country.

    Immigrants coming to America do so because the United States is still the city on a shining hill for the poor and persecuted.

    I just returned from Mexico, where I discussed these matters with some of Mexico’s leading business and political figures. I can tell you, Mexicans do not leave their families and homes – risking life and limb to come to America – out of animus to America or Americans. They come here out of necessity, looking for work and opportunities that do not presently exist in Mexico.

    In the long run, the best way to stop mass migration from Mexico to the United States is not to militarize the border but to ensure that Mexico has a growing economy. That way Mexico can be a beacon for its own citizens and maybe even for people in neighboring countries."

    I seem to recall that Paul Ryan worked for Kemp for a time in the 90's.

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Reg Cæsar

    Also, after the studied inarticulateness of W., Ryan was considered a policy wonk, particularly on the budget. Nevertheless, Biden beat him soundly in the VP debate, and he proved to be a lousy campaigner at the national level.

    , @Lot
    @Reg Cæsar

    Nothing impressive about Ryan winning his seat, which was held by another republican who retired to run for the Senate.

    , @Bill
    @Reg Cæsar

    That's a really interesting comment. Other than it making a lot of sense, is there any evidence that this is what's going on?

    , @Wilkey
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Ryan won repeatedly in blue collar Janesville, much like Jack Kemp did in (or near) Buffalo. That carries a lot of weight in Republican circles, who need but don’t understand that vote."

    Jack Kemp never won a single damn election outside of his congressional district - not one. When he ran for the Republican nomination in 1988 he didn't win a single state, finished no better than third in any of them, and finished fourth (out of five) in most of them. He received all of 2.7% of the total Republican primary vote.

    Replies: @tbraton, @Reg Cæsar, @a Newsreader

  50. @meh
    Off Topic:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/10/get-rid-borders-completely/409501/

    The Case for Getting Rid of Borders—Completely

    No defensible moral framework regards foreigners as less deserving of rights than people born in the right place at the right time.
     

    Replies: @bomag, @Anonymous, @AnotherDad, @AnAnon

    No defensible moral framework regards foreigners as less deserving of rights than people born in the right place at the right time.

    Saw that too. Sheer idiocy.

    How about “no defensible moral framework for the Tabarrok kids living in his nice house … they are no more deserving than foreign kids”.

    Tabarrok, exhibits not just the moral idiocy he subscribes to others, but intellectual idiocy as well. He just can’t see how full of holes his sweeping pronouncements are.

    Essentially he can’t comprehend–or refuses to comprehend–two pretty obvious real (of real humans) concepts.
    1) That people have *collective* rights. That my neighbors and i can say clear a patch of ground and then say this is *our* village common (or field, or park, or country club) and belongs to *us* and no one else.
    2) That people are free to–and generally desire to–pass their rights on to their children. That “accident of birth” is in fact no accident at all. Some people are indeed born into families, tribes, nations that have achieved more and built up more pleasant existence in some way or another, but their good fortune is not “random” or an “accident”. The people born into these situations are in fact the biological descendants of those who worked to make them nice places for their descendants.

    Tabarrok posing as a libertarian is actually a far left radical. “Anarchist” doesn’t even capture it, because Tabarrok wants to keep people from forming their natural voluntary associations that would impede movement. (If you abolished the US government, Americans would voluntarily reform several of their own and establish a better, harder borders than exist now!) Tabarrok and his OpenBorders buddies are actually radically communist levelers, seeking to squash any sort of social organization but the ginormous super-state whose job is precisely to do such squashing, preventing any people from having their own private space.

    These folks are really this locus of evil in the world. Biological organization and complexity offends there autism and they simply wish to destroy and tear down anything that competent people build up.

    • Agree: Bill
    • Replies: @NOTA
    @AnotherDad

    There are philosophers who make this point wrt children--you and your kids are no more inherently valuable than any other people, so in a utilitarian framework, you should be willing to do 1+epsilon units of good to some kid you've never met before at the cost of doing 1 unit of harm to your kid.

    This is logically consistent, but it's hard to imagine anyone following such moral advice in practice.

    It's fuzzier when you're dealing with more distant groups, because different people have different levels of identification with groups. To what extent do I care more about all humans, all Americans, all Catholics, all whites, all scientists, all smart people, etc.? Everyone has a different answer.

    My guess is that the people making this sort of argument started out not really strongly identifying with their fellow Americans so much as people of their ideology or smart people. They made an argument that led them to the conclusion they'd already reached internally for non-rational reasons.

  51. @NOTA
    @AndrewR

    If I recall correctly, Hitler wasnt all that committed to the sanctity of borders. Particularly not the borders of, say, Poland, Czechloslavakia, Austria, France, Belgium, Russia, or the Netherlands.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @AndrewR, @Jeremiahjohnbalaya

    Don’t forget Denmark, Norway, Luxembourg, Yugoslavia…

  52. @Ivy
    @wonderbread

    Gutierrez has astutely determined that the vital Green Bay route must be protected at all cost.
    His goal is to turn Cheeseheads into QuesoCabezas.

    He is yet another example of a Representative forgetting his Oath of Office, especially that pesky US Constitution component.

    I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Gutierrez has astutely determined that the vital Green Bay route must be protected at all cost.

    I think the Hmong got to Titletown first.

  53. @Reg Cæsar
    @tbraton

    Ryan won repeatedly in blue collar Janesville, much like Jack Kemp did in (or near) Buffalo. That carries a lot of weight in Republican circles, who need but don't understand that vote.

    Replies: @tbraton, @Dave Pinsen, @Lot, @Bill, @Wilkey

    Jack Kemp was another Congressman who never ran for statewide office but still managed to get nominated for VP on the Dole ticket. He was also very liberal when it came to immigration. This is what he said in 2004 in the San Diego Union:

    “Anti-immigration politicians and candidates fail to realize a few fundamental truths, the most important of which is that we are an immigrant country.

    Immigrants coming to America do so because the United States is still the city on a shining hill for the poor and persecuted.

    I just returned from Mexico, where I discussed these matters with some of Mexico’s leading business and political figures. I can tell you, Mexicans do not leave their families and homes – risking life and limb to come to America – out of animus to America or Americans. They come here out of necessity, looking for work and opportunities that do not presently exist in Mexico.

    In the long run, the best way to stop mass migration from Mexico to the United States is not to militarize the border but to ensure that Mexico has a growing economy. That way Mexico can be a beacon for its own citizens and maybe even for people in neighboring countries.”

    I seem to recall that Paul Ryan worked for Kemp for a time in the 90’s.

  54. @tformation
    Ryan was key in making the sequester happen. He seems very good at spreading pain equally between democratic & republican pet projects.

    There are other issues besides immigration...

    Replies: @Chris L, @Spoons, @AnAnon

    Not anymore there isn’t. We lose this final immigration battle and nothing else matters. We’ll be constantly swamped by the voting of the “new” Americans for whatever free stuff they can get.

    Plus, when you can’t even ax the ExIm bank, how much of a budget cutter are you? It’s more like, I’m going to cut all of the welfare programs that the middle class pays for, give tax breaks to corporations, continue crony capitalism, and make sure your kids never pay off their college loans as I flood the country with H1-B’s.

    • Replies: @tformation
    @Chris L

    "Plus, when you can’t even ax the ExIm bank, how much of a budget cutter are you? "

    In other words, "He didn't cut what I think he should cut! Therefore he didn't cut anything!"

    Again, spreading the pain equally between democrats & republicans is what Ryan does well. Sorry, but we're not at apocalypse now yet with immigration. Just because Ryan isn't vocally agreeing with you on this issue, doesn't mean he is against you.

    Replies: @Lot

  55. @AnotherDad
    @meh



    No defensible moral framework regards foreigners as less deserving of rights than people born in the right place at the right time.
     
    Saw that too. Sheer idiocy.

    How about "no defensible moral framework for the Tabarrok kids living in his nice house ... they are no more deserving than foreign kids".

    Tabarrok, exhibits not just the moral idiocy he subscribes to others, but intellectual idiocy as well. He just can't see how full of holes his sweeping pronouncements are.

    Essentially he can't comprehend--or refuses to comprehend--two pretty obvious real (of real humans) concepts.
    1) That people have *collective* rights. That my neighbors and i can say clear a patch of ground and then say this is *our* village common (or field, or park, or country club) and belongs to *us* and no one else.
    2) That people are free to--and generally desire to--pass their rights on to their children. That "accident of birth" is in fact no accident at all. Some people are indeed born into families, tribes, nations that have achieved more and built up more pleasant existence in some way or another, but their good fortune is not "random" or an "accident". The people born into these situations are in fact the biological descendants of those who worked to make them nice places for their descendants.

    Tabarrok posing as a libertarian is actually a far left radical. "Anarchist" doesn't even capture it, because Tabarrok wants to keep people from forming their natural voluntary associations that would impede movement. (If you abolished the US government, Americans would voluntarily reform several of their own and establish a better, harder borders than exist now!) Tabarrok and his OpenBorders buddies are actually radically communist levelers, seeking to squash any sort of social organization but the ginormous super-state whose job is precisely to do such squashing, preventing any people from having their own private space.

    These folks are really this locus of evil in the world. Biological organization and complexity offends there autism and they simply wish to destroy and tear down anything that competent people build up.

    Replies: @NOTA

    There are philosophers who make this point wrt children–you and your kids are no more inherently valuable than any other people, so in a utilitarian framework, you should be willing to do 1+epsilon units of good to some kid you’ve never met before at the cost of doing 1 unit of harm to your kid.

    This is logically consistent, but it’s hard to imagine anyone following such moral advice in practice.

    It’s fuzzier when you’re dealing with more distant groups, because different people have different levels of identification with groups. To what extent do I care more about all humans, all Americans, all Catholics, all whites, all scientists, all smart people, etc.? Everyone has a different answer.

    My guess is that the people making this sort of argument started out not really strongly identifying with their fellow Americans so much as people of their ideology or smart people. They made an argument that led them to the conclusion they’d already reached internally for non-rational reasons.

  56. @Reg Cæsar
    @tbraton

    Ryan won repeatedly in blue collar Janesville, much like Jack Kemp did in (or near) Buffalo. That carries a lot of weight in Republican circles, who need but don't understand that vote.

    Replies: @tbraton, @Dave Pinsen, @Lot, @Bill, @Wilkey

    Also, after the studied inarticulateness of W., Ryan was considered a policy wonk, particularly on the budget. Nevertheless, Biden beat him soundly in the VP debate, and he proved to be a lousy campaigner at the national level.

  57. McCarthy was nixed due to his cooperation with the Cleveland Caucus and its patrons, the Chamber of Commerce. Its mission is to unseat 2016 Tea Party House members over Planned Parenthood.

  58. OT: Steve, I think I remember you saying that your favorite novel is Waugh’s Scoop. And I think you’ve quoted the phrase “Up to a point, Lord Copper”. Are you aware that the British version of The Apprentice is hosted by someone named Lord Sugar?

    A few days ago I followed a link to the Daily Mail. There was a story or an ad or something on the side about the British Apprentice. And the contestants in the video were bragging about how they were gling to impress Lord Sugar.

  59. @American realist
    As two comments have already noted, Paul Ryan is an Ayn Rand devotee, which is as dangerous on immigration policy as on monetary policy:

    http://openborders.info/ayn-rand-immigration-obvious/

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/opinion/krugman-galt-gold-and-god.html

    Jason Chaffetz is much better than Ryan (or the unintelligible Kevin McCarthy--Rachel Maddow segment linked below is funny) on immigration; I'm not sure if there's another candidate for Speaker who's better still. As Mickey Kaus tweeted, "Opponents of amnesty will have to mobilize against Paul Ryan. Get your dialing fingers ready." Leave your rep a message today and call again tomorrow when offices are open. Show you care. If the permanent-war, climate-change denying, Wall Street stooges Republican Party won't enforce our borders it has no reason to exist.

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/my/congress/1328/gradescoresheet

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/clumsy-speech-marks-odd-choice-for-speaker-540695619883

    Replies: @advancedatheist, @Lot, @anonymous

    Webster (FL) is better than Chaffetz on immigration. Both are good on most issues, but Chaffetz is weak on skilled immigrant visas.

    Chaffetz has done more on the issue though, serving as co sponsor of some patriotic bills and also knocking off a pro amnesty republican in a primary, both gaining us a vote and serving to scare other Republicans.

    I’d be happy either way.

  60. @wonderbread
    Promotes open borders and amnesty. Lives in Wisconsin.

    Replies: @Ivy, @Anonym

    That’s a scumbag steve meme. Nice.

  61. @tbraton
    I never understood Romney's selection of Ryan as his running mate in 2012, and I have never understood the enduring appeal of Ryan. He has never run for statewide office in Wisconsin. So, even in Wisconsin, his appeal seems to be somewhat limited. A career politician, sort of like Marco Rubio. At least Rubio ran for and won statewide office, but his decision not to run for reelection indicates that he was uncertain about his chances or he felt that he has a good shot at getting the VP slot. Isn't there a contradiction between being an Ayn Rand enthusiast and being a career politician?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @anonymous, @Mr. Anon

    Paul Rino was Bill Kristol’s lapdog. He has since been replace by Tim Cotton. Tim has been promised the Veep slot on a Jeb Bush ticket.

    • Replies: @EriK
    @anonymous

    Any relation to Tom Cotton?

    Replies: @anonymous, @fish

  62. @Harry Baldwin
    @eah

    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    Of course they're unsustainable--the unsustainability is built in to them. They're Ponzi schemes, and every Ponzi scheme is unsustainable.

    The other important point is that we're not going to sustain anything by importing millions of immigrants who are a net loss to the national budget rather than a net gain. We're only going to accelerate our collapse.

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Jesse, @The Anti-Gnostic, @anonymous, @Reg Cæsar

    Paul Rino wanted to screw seniors and use the money to increase the military AND he thought his great ideas were going to help Romney become president. As Trump would say, LOSER.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @anonymous


    Paul Rino wanted to screw seniors…
     
    Ryan aside, anyone who suggests returning to anything like the Founders' vision of constitutional federal republican government is going to be slammed as out to "screw seniors".

    If protecting your SocSec and Medicare is your primary concern, the answer is simple: support the most immigrationist politicians you can find, eg, Luis Guitterrez. Your grandchildren will lose their country, but you'll get your check, baby, you'll get your check.

    Replies: @Maj. Kong, @anonymous

  63. @Reg Cæsar
    @tbraton

    Ryan won repeatedly in blue collar Janesville, much like Jack Kemp did in (or near) Buffalo. That carries a lot of weight in Republican circles, who need but don't understand that vote.

    Replies: @tbraton, @Dave Pinsen, @Lot, @Bill, @Wilkey

    Nothing impressive about Ryan winning his seat, which was held by another republican who retired to run for the Senate.

  64. @American realist
    As two comments have already noted, Paul Ryan is an Ayn Rand devotee, which is as dangerous on immigration policy as on monetary policy:

    http://openborders.info/ayn-rand-immigration-obvious/

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/opinion/krugman-galt-gold-and-god.html

    Jason Chaffetz is much better than Ryan (or the unintelligible Kevin McCarthy--Rachel Maddow segment linked below is funny) on immigration; I'm not sure if there's another candidate for Speaker who's better still. As Mickey Kaus tweeted, "Opponents of amnesty will have to mobilize against Paul Ryan. Get your dialing fingers ready." Leave your rep a message today and call again tomorrow when offices are open. Show you care. If the permanent-war, climate-change denying, Wall Street stooges Republican Party won't enforce our borders it has no reason to exist.

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/my/congress/1328/gradescoresheet

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/clumsy-speech-marks-odd-choice-for-speaker-540695619883

    Replies: @advancedatheist, @Lot, @anonymous

    Chaffetz is conservative Republican former Jewish Democrat-turned Mormon and right-winger whose stepmother is Kitty Dukakis.

    • Replies: @e
    @anonymous

    I didn't know Chaffetz turned Mormon, but I did know his father is the first husband of Katharine Dickson (aka Kitty Dukakis) and that his half brother John is her first born. The latter took Mike Dukakis'surname even though he wasn't formally adopted by him. Small world.

    Replies: @Honesthughgrant

  65. @Reg Cæsar
    @tbraton

    Ryan won repeatedly in blue collar Janesville, much like Jack Kemp did in (or near) Buffalo. That carries a lot of weight in Republican circles, who need but don't understand that vote.

    Replies: @tbraton, @Dave Pinsen, @Lot, @Bill, @Wilkey

    That’s a really interesting comment. Other than it making a lot of sense, is there any evidence that this is what’s going on?

  66. @Reg Cæsar
    @tbraton

    Ryan won repeatedly in blue collar Janesville, much like Jack Kemp did in (or near) Buffalo. That carries a lot of weight in Republican circles, who need but don't understand that vote.

    Replies: @tbraton, @Dave Pinsen, @Lot, @Bill, @Wilkey

    “Ryan won repeatedly in blue collar Janesville, much like Jack Kemp did in (or near) Buffalo. That carries a lot of weight in Republican circles, who need but don’t understand that vote.”

    Jack Kemp never won a single damn election outside of his congressional district – not one. When he ran for the Republican nomination in 1988 he didn’t win a single state, finished no better than third in any of them, and finished fourth (out of five) in most of them. He received all of 2.7% of the total Republican primary vote.

    • Replies: @tbraton
    @Wilkey

    And yet he became a hero of certain segments of the Republican Party. That's what has me scratching my head. What got my goat was this guy, who majored in physical ed in college, somehow converting himself into an economics expert as a Congressman. (I will concede that he was a pretty good quarterback in the pros.)

    Here are some amusing paragraphs from Wikipedia:

    "At a 2005 Washington, D.C. gathering celebrating the 100th anniversary of Ayn Rand's birth,[31][32] Ryan credited Rand as inspiring him to get involved in public service.[33] In a speech that same year at the Atlas Society, he said he grew up reading Rand, and that her books taught him about his value system and beliefs.[34][35] Ryan required staffers and interns in his congressional office to read Rand[35] and gave copies of her novel Atlas Shrugged as gifts to his staff for Christmas.[36][37] In his Atlas Society speech, he also described Social Security as a "socialist-based system".[38]

    In 2009, Ryan said, "What's unique about what's happening today in government, in the world, in America, is that it's as if we're living in an Ayn Rand novel right now. I think Ayn Rand did the best job of anybody to build a moral case of capitalism, and that morality of capitalism is under assault."[36]

    In April 2012, after receiving criticism from Georgetown University faculty members on his budget plan, Ryan rejected Rand's philosophy as an atheistic one, saying it "reduces human interactions down to mere contracts".[39] He also called the reports of his adherence to Rand's views an "urban legend" and stated that he was deeply influenced by his Roman Catholic faith and by Thomas Aquinas.[40] Yaron Brook, executive director of the Ayn Rand Institute, maintains that Ryan is not a Rand disciple, and that some of his proposals do not follow Rand's philosophy of limited government; Brook refers to Ryan as a "fiscal moderate".[41]

    In August 2012, after Romney chose him as his running mate, the Associated Press published a story saying that while the Tea Party movement had wanted a nominee other than Romney, it had gotten "one of its ideological heroes" in the Vice Presidential slot. According to the article, Ryan supports the Tea Party's belief in "individual rights, distrust of big government and an allegorical embrace of the Founding Fathers".[42] "

    Does that reference to "allegorical embrace of the Founding Fathers" make him a virtual closet gay? If it weren't for all the laughs they produce, we could happily eliminate just about every politician out there.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Wilkey


    Jack Kemp never won a single damn election outside of his congressional district – not one. When he ran for the Republican nomination in 1988 he didn’t win a single state, finished no better than third in any of them, and finished fourth (out of five) in most of them. He received all of 2.7% of the total Republican primary vote.

     

    Yeah, but my point was that he, like Ryan, impressed the party's leaders. The rank-and-file is a whole 'nother story.

    Replies: @e

    , @a Newsreader
    @Wilkey

    Being a retired quarterback for the Buffalo Bills can get you some extra votes in Western New York, but not so many outside the region.

  67. @anonymous
    @tbraton

    Paul Rino was Bill Kristol's lapdog. He has since been replace by Tim Cotton. Tim has been promised the Veep slot on a Jeb Bush ticket.

    Replies: @EriK

    Any relation to Tom Cotton?

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @EriK

    The intentional misspelling is an expression of disrespect and contempt.

    Replies: @EriK

    , @fish
    @EriK


    Any relation to Tom Cotton?

     

    Twin brother actually.....

    In any case I'm not sure that either will be serving in a Bush administration in the immediate future.
  68. @David
    What happened to Syon?

    Replies: @Bert, @Bill, @MarkinLA, @Hacienda, @Reg Cæsar

    Well, these robot machine thingies drilled in through its ceiling. Simultaneously, Curtis Yarvin went to machine city to ram some blue pills down the head robot’s throat or read them some poetry or talk about the soulful black chick who smokes a lot. Cookies? Was he taking them cookies?

  69. @jack ryan
    Hi Steve,

    I bicycled in the Obama Hyde Park Chicago neighborhood where I was born and raised.

    I noticed that there is a Jewish synagogue less than one block from Obama's mansion that looks, to me at least, like an Islamic mosque!

    Sort of weird, but so was the rapid rise of an obscure Illinois state representative Barack Obama - the bastard son of a Kenyan Muslim to US Senator and President of the United States

    Here's our take:

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2015/10/12/15th-century-spain-muslims-jews-and-our-guys/

    I would enjoy hearing the Steve Sailer interpretation.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Hibernian

    The neighborhood where the Obamas bought their house is where the higher-ups of the Black Muslims have bought their houses. That was, in effect, Obama’s explanation for bringing in Tony Rezko to help him find and buy a house in that neighborhood: Rezko had a lot of experience buying and selling in that neighborhood. What went without saying is that Rezko was long the business manager of the Black Muslims / Nation of Islam.

  70. @EriK
    @anonymous

    Any relation to Tom Cotton?

    Replies: @anonymous, @fish

    The intentional misspelling is an expression of disrespect and contempt.

    • Replies: @EriK
    @anonymous

    You're more clever than I thought. Although "Timmy" might have worked better.

  71. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Besides Paul Ryan and Eddie Munster are dopplegangers

    http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/Paul-Ryan/ig/Paul-Ryan-Pictures/Paul-Ryan-Eddie-Munster.htm

    http://cheezburger.com/4603323136

    Replies: @Romanian

    Lol that creepy kid has my eyebrows and widow’s peak. Is that a TV character?

  72. @Wilkey
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Ryan won repeatedly in blue collar Janesville, much like Jack Kemp did in (or near) Buffalo. That carries a lot of weight in Republican circles, who need but don’t understand that vote."

    Jack Kemp never won a single damn election outside of his congressional district - not one. When he ran for the Republican nomination in 1988 he didn't win a single state, finished no better than third in any of them, and finished fourth (out of five) in most of them. He received all of 2.7% of the total Republican primary vote.

    Replies: @tbraton, @Reg Cæsar, @a Newsreader

    And yet he became a hero of certain segments of the Republican Party. That’s what has me scratching my head. What got my goat was this guy, who majored in physical ed in college, somehow converting himself into an economics expert as a Congressman. (I will concede that he was a pretty good quarterback in the pros.)

    Here are some amusing paragraphs from Wikipedia:

    “At a 2005 Washington, D.C. gathering celebrating the 100th anniversary of Ayn Rand’s birth,[31][32] Ryan credited Rand as inspiring him to get involved in public service.[33] In a speech that same year at the Atlas Society, he said he grew up reading Rand, and that her books taught him about his value system and beliefs.[34][35] Ryan required staffers and interns in his congressional office to read Rand[35] and gave copies of her novel Atlas Shrugged as gifts to his staff for Christmas.[36][37] In his Atlas Society speech, he also described Social Security as a “socialist-based system”.[38]

    In 2009, Ryan said, “What’s unique about what’s happening today in government, in the world, in America, is that it’s as if we’re living in an Ayn Rand novel right now. I think Ayn Rand did the best job of anybody to build a moral case of capitalism, and that morality of capitalism is under assault.”[36]

    In April 2012, after receiving criticism from Georgetown University faculty members on his budget plan, Ryan rejected Rand’s philosophy as an atheistic one, saying it “reduces human interactions down to mere contracts”.[39] He also called the reports of his adherence to Rand’s views an “urban legend” and stated that he was deeply influenced by his Roman Catholic faith and by Thomas Aquinas.[40] Yaron Brook, executive director of the Ayn Rand Institute, maintains that Ryan is not a Rand disciple, and that some of his proposals do not follow Rand’s philosophy of limited government; Brook refers to Ryan as a “fiscal moderate”.[41]

    In August 2012, after Romney chose him as his running mate, the Associated Press published a story saying that while the Tea Party movement had wanted a nominee other than Romney, it had gotten “one of its ideological heroes” in the Vice Presidential slot. According to the article, Ryan supports the Tea Party’s belief in “individual rights, distrust of big government and an allegorical embrace of the Founding Fathers”.[42] ”

    Does that reference to “allegorical embrace of the Founding Fathers” make him a virtual closet gay? If it weren’t for all the laughs they produce, we could happily eliminate just about every politician out there.

  73. @advancedatheist
    @American realist


    Paul Ryan is an Ayn Rand devotee
     
    Ayn Rand comes across now as basically a leftist intellectual who held some contrarian views on politics and economics. She promoted and practiced the key damaging policies of modern feminism: women's sexual freedom, open marriages, abortion, contraception, irreligion, not having children, college educations and careers for women.

    Immigration hadn't become the crisis during her lifetime that it has become since, so I don't know what she wrote about it, if anything. But it wouldn't surprise me if as an Ashkenazi Jewish immigrant herself she supported open borders like the other intellectuals in her people.

    Replies: @Lot

    Ayn Rand comes across now as basically a leftist intellectual who held some contrarian views on politics and economics.

    While I can understand your view, I don’t think it involves a very useful definition of “leftist.” If Rand is leftist, so are 95% of Americans and 98% of Western Europeans and Canadians.

    But it wouldn’t surprise me if as an Ashkenazi Jewish immigrant herself she supported open borders like the other intellectuals in her people.

    You’re simply wrong that most Ashkenazi believe in open boarders. Not even Bernie Sanders does. And Jewish organizations were usually opposed to mass immigration through the 1970’s.

    Rand likely believed in liberal but not open boarders, but given the huge demographic shift in the world since she died 35 years ago, I am not so sure she’d do so now. While the various Koch-funded libertarian groups are open-boarders radicals (CATO, Mercatus Center, Competitive Enterprise Institute), a second group centered around the Ludwig von Mises Institute are opposed to mass immigration.

    As an aside, the open boarders libertarians are funded by the gentile Koch brothers and have as their leaders Ed Crane (CATO), Fred Smith (CEI) and Tyler Cowen (Mercatus). And then there is the extreme pro-Muslim immigration Grover Norquist.

    The patriotic libertarian von Mises Institute is named for a Jew and two of the three founders were Jewish (Murray Rothbard, Burt Blumert, Lew Rockwell).

    Which camp Rand would fall into now is an interesting question. On one hand, she made a few vaguely open boarders comments here and there. And her heir Leonard Peikoff is a open boarders zealot. On the other hand, she was right on race, opposing the Civil Rights Act, not just at the time, but continued to criticize it until she died. That was a pretty rare position outside of the South.

    To give an idea of how popular the 1964 Act was outside of the South, of Ohio’s 23 congressmen (17 of them Republicans), 22 voted for it. Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York, with a combined 75 or so seats, there was not a single no vote. Illinois had one no vote out of 24. Only six Republicans voted against it in the Senate, the half-Ashkenazi Barry Goldwater and 5 others who supported him in the ’64 GOP primary. Not a single senator representing the Midwest, West Coast, or Northeast voted against it.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Lot

    Here's an extended take on Rand and immigration from a WN type who likes Rand but not her heirs (who live well off her books' royalties and run the ARI):

    http://ariwatch.com/AynRandOnImmigration.htm

    The short version is that she never published a word on the topic directly, and her primary heir Peikoff's ARI dishonestly tries to make her into a open boarderer based on a single Q&A answer she gave off the cuff and late in life at one of the many speeches she toured around the country giving.

    Replies: @Honesthughgrant

    , @AndrewR
    @Lot

    I honestly don't care enough to spend time finding a citation, but I'm quite certain Sanders has flip-flopped on immigration. He's pro open borders because the left overwhelmingly is, just like he's pro BLM because the left overwhelmingly is. One could call him pragmatic, a coward or an opportunist but he certainly seems to go with the tide on immigration.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  74. @tformation
    Ryan was key in making the sequester happen. He seems very good at spreading pain equally between democratic & republican pet projects.

    There are other issues besides immigration...

    Replies: @Chris L, @Spoons, @AnAnon

    “There are other issues besides immigration…”

    No there aren’t. How much do you really care about whether or not some random 3rd world country manages its budget? Very, very little. So why would you care about the budget of the random 3rd world country that America is being replaced by?

  75. @Lot
    @advancedatheist


    Ayn Rand comes across now as basically a leftist intellectual who held some contrarian views on politics and economics.
     
    While I can understand your view, I don't think it involves a very useful definition of "leftist." If Rand is leftist, so are 95% of Americans and 98% of Western Europeans and Canadians.

    But it wouldn’t surprise me if as an Ashkenazi Jewish immigrant herself she supported open borders like the other intellectuals in her people.
     

    You're simply wrong that most Ashkenazi believe in open boarders. Not even Bernie Sanders does. And Jewish organizations were usually opposed to mass immigration through the 1970's.

    Rand likely believed in liberal but not open boarders, but given the huge demographic shift in the world since she died 35 years ago, I am not so sure she'd do so now. While the various Koch-funded libertarian groups are open-boarders radicals (CATO, Mercatus Center, Competitive Enterprise Institute), a second group centered around the Ludwig von Mises Institute are opposed to mass immigration.

    As an aside, the open boarders libertarians are funded by the gentile Koch brothers and have as their leaders Ed Crane (CATO), Fred Smith (CEI) and Tyler Cowen (Mercatus). And then there is the extreme pro-Muslim immigration Grover Norquist.

    The patriotic libertarian von Mises Institute is named for a Jew and two of the three founders were Jewish (Murray Rothbard, Burt Blumert, Lew Rockwell).

    Which camp Rand would fall into now is an interesting question. On one hand, she made a few vaguely open boarders comments here and there. And her heir Leonard Peikoff is a open boarders zealot. On the other hand, she was right on race, opposing the Civil Rights Act, not just at the time, but continued to criticize it until she died. That was a pretty rare position outside of the South.

    To give an idea of how popular the 1964 Act was outside of the South, of Ohio's 23 congressmen (17 of them Republicans), 22 voted for it. Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York, with a combined 75 or so seats, there was not a single no vote. Illinois had one no vote out of 24. Only six Republicans voted against it in the Senate, the half-Ashkenazi Barry Goldwater and 5 others who supported him in the '64 GOP primary. Not a single senator representing the Midwest, West Coast, or Northeast voted against it.

    Replies: @Lot, @AndrewR

    Here’s an extended take on Rand and immigration from a WN type who likes Rand but not her heirs (who live well off her books’ royalties and run the ARI):

    http://ariwatch.com/AynRandOnImmigration.htm

    The short version is that she never published a word on the topic directly, and her primary heir Peikoff’s ARI dishonestly tries to make her into a open boarderer based on a single Q&A answer she gave off the cuff and late in life at one of the many speeches she toured around the country giving.

    • Replies: @Honesthughgrant
    @Lot

    IOW, her disciples are almost all pro-open borders and she herself supported open borders the one time she was asked about it. And she never wrote against the 1965 immigration act. Accordingly, there's no reason to believe she would have opposed open borders and that's confirmed by looking at her "principles" ,

    Why are there so many fanatics on the internet who support Rand? Every criticism is met by some sort of "pushback" even when it makes no sense or contradicts other "pushback" made elsewhere on the web.

    Rand's philosophy was all about the individual. The idea that she would've supported any sort of patriotic defense of "Borders" is ludicrous.

    Replies: @Divine Right, @Lot

  76. @NOTA
    @AndrewR

    If I recall correctly, Hitler wasnt all that committed to the sanctity of borders. Particularly not the borders of, say, Poland, Czechloslavakia, Austria, France, Belgium, Russia, or the Netherlands.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @AndrewR, @Jeremiahjohnbalaya

    that’s what makes leftist outrage about immigration restriction so absurd

  77. @Chris L
    @tformation

    Not anymore there isn't. We lose this final immigration battle and nothing else matters. We'll be constantly swamped by the voting of the "new" Americans for whatever free stuff they can get.

    Plus, when you can't even ax the ExIm bank, how much of a budget cutter are you? It's more like, I'm going to cut all of the welfare programs that the middle class pays for, give tax breaks to corporations, continue crony capitalism, and make sure your kids never pay off their college loans as I flood the country with H1-B's.

    Replies: @tformation

    “Plus, when you can’t even ax the ExIm bank, how much of a budget cutter are you? ”

    In other words, “He didn’t cut what I think he should cut! Therefore he didn’t cut anything!”

    Again, spreading the pain equally between democrats & republicans is what Ryan does well. Sorry, but we’re not at apocalypse now yet with immigration. Just because Ryan isn’t vocally agreeing with you on this issue, doesn’t mean he is against you.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @tformation


    Sorry, but we’re not at apocalypse now yet with immigration.
     
    We have a non-white majority for the under 5 age group in America, soon to expand to under 10 and eventually the whole country.

    Just because Ryan isn’t vocally agreeing with you on this issue, doesn’t mean he is against you.
     
    Except, as the article from Wired in 1996 shows, Ryan was a behind-the-scenes open boarders advocate even before he was in Congress.


    NumbersUSA gives him a life-time score of B-. Of the Republicans in their "lifetime" database, 41 score worse, 17 score the same, and 187 score better. So he is is worse than about 75% of the House GOP. And if you consider only the current House GOP, which is now better than it used to be, he's more like in the bottom 15%.
  78. …Speaker of the House frontrunner Kevin McCarthy was unsound on immigration policy.

    And then he went away.

    Too bad he doesn’t have a sister to proclaim everything his opponents said is a lie– “including and and the“– like that other Kevin McCarthy had.

  79. @Wilkey
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Ryan won repeatedly in blue collar Janesville, much like Jack Kemp did in (or near) Buffalo. That carries a lot of weight in Republican circles, who need but don’t understand that vote."

    Jack Kemp never won a single damn election outside of his congressional district - not one. When he ran for the Republican nomination in 1988 he didn't win a single state, finished no better than third in any of them, and finished fourth (out of five) in most of them. He received all of 2.7% of the total Republican primary vote.

    Replies: @tbraton, @Reg Cæsar, @a Newsreader

    Jack Kemp never won a single damn election outside of his congressional district – not one. When he ran for the Republican nomination in 1988 he didn’t win a single state, finished no better than third in any of them, and finished fourth (out of five) in most of them. He received all of 2.7% of the total Republican primary vote.

    Yeah, but my point was that he, like Ryan, impressed the party’s leaders. The rank-and-file is a whole ‘nother story.

    • Replies: @e
    @Reg Cæsar

    Jack Kemp was an almost universally liked and respected pol, known for his good humor and upbeat belief in just about everything, but that was his error--he believed in the oft-repeated Enterprise Zones, as if all it takes is a plunk of money and tax credits to turn a neighborhood from a slum to a thriving community. Seems he never studied outcomes from pouring money into certain schools with certain populations. I wonder were he alive today to study the data, if he'd be any more the wiser, or if he'd be agreeing with Obama about pre-K for all. What would he say about Head Start?

    Replies: @Honesthughgrant, @europeasant, @Wilkey

  80. @Lot
    @advancedatheist


    Ayn Rand comes across now as basically a leftist intellectual who held some contrarian views on politics and economics.
     
    While I can understand your view, I don't think it involves a very useful definition of "leftist." If Rand is leftist, so are 95% of Americans and 98% of Western Europeans and Canadians.

    But it wouldn’t surprise me if as an Ashkenazi Jewish immigrant herself she supported open borders like the other intellectuals in her people.
     

    You're simply wrong that most Ashkenazi believe in open boarders. Not even Bernie Sanders does. And Jewish organizations were usually opposed to mass immigration through the 1970's.

    Rand likely believed in liberal but not open boarders, but given the huge demographic shift in the world since she died 35 years ago, I am not so sure she'd do so now. While the various Koch-funded libertarian groups are open-boarders radicals (CATO, Mercatus Center, Competitive Enterprise Institute), a second group centered around the Ludwig von Mises Institute are opposed to mass immigration.

    As an aside, the open boarders libertarians are funded by the gentile Koch brothers and have as their leaders Ed Crane (CATO), Fred Smith (CEI) and Tyler Cowen (Mercatus). And then there is the extreme pro-Muslim immigration Grover Norquist.

    The patriotic libertarian von Mises Institute is named for a Jew and two of the three founders were Jewish (Murray Rothbard, Burt Blumert, Lew Rockwell).

    Which camp Rand would fall into now is an interesting question. On one hand, she made a few vaguely open boarders comments here and there. And her heir Leonard Peikoff is a open boarders zealot. On the other hand, she was right on race, opposing the Civil Rights Act, not just at the time, but continued to criticize it until she died. That was a pretty rare position outside of the South.

    To give an idea of how popular the 1964 Act was outside of the South, of Ohio's 23 congressmen (17 of them Republicans), 22 voted for it. Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York, with a combined 75 or so seats, there was not a single no vote. Illinois had one no vote out of 24. Only six Republicans voted against it in the Senate, the half-Ashkenazi Barry Goldwater and 5 others who supported him in the '64 GOP primary. Not a single senator representing the Midwest, West Coast, or Northeast voted against it.

    Replies: @Lot, @AndrewR

    I honestly don’t care enough to spend time finding a citation, but I’m quite certain Sanders has flip-flopped on immigration. He’s pro open borders because the left overwhelmingly is, just like he’s pro BLM because the left overwhelmingly is. One could call him pragmatic, a coward or an opportunist but he certainly seems to go with the tide on immigration.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @AndrewR

    But Sanders probably isn't a True Believer in Immigration Uber Alles.

    Replies: @Lot, @eah

  81. @Wilkey
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Ryan won repeatedly in blue collar Janesville, much like Jack Kemp did in (or near) Buffalo. That carries a lot of weight in Republican circles, who need but don’t understand that vote."

    Jack Kemp never won a single damn election outside of his congressional district - not one. When he ran for the Republican nomination in 1988 he didn't win a single state, finished no better than third in any of them, and finished fourth (out of five) in most of them. He received all of 2.7% of the total Republican primary vote.

    Replies: @tbraton, @Reg Cæsar, @a Newsreader

    Being a retired quarterback for the Buffalo Bills can get you some extra votes in Western New York, but not so many outside the region.

  82. @eah
    Ryan has done work on 'entitlement reform':

    Courageous Reforms in Ryan's Entitlements Road Map: Where Is the Democratic Response?

    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    As noted before -- America's Evolving Look: Census Shows White Deaths Outpace Births

    These stark facts are the (usually) unspoken background to elite support for immigration and amnesty. People who prefer someone more 'reliable' on immigration and amnesty must address the above issues.

    Replies: @Chris L, @Harry Baldwin, @Honorary Thief, @MarkinLA, @ben tillman

    I don’t see the welfare state as a good thing. I don’t even see population growth as a good thing. Two hundred fifty million people would have been plenty.

  83. @eah
    Ryan has done work on 'entitlement reform':

    Courageous Reforms in Ryan's Entitlements Road Map: Where Is the Democratic Response?

    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    As noted before -- America's Evolving Look: Census Shows White Deaths Outpace Births

    These stark facts are the (usually) unspoken background to elite support for immigration and amnesty. People who prefer someone more 'reliable' on immigration and amnesty must address the above issues.

    Replies: @Chris L, @Harry Baldwin, @Honorary Thief, @MarkinLA, @ben tillman

    In a homogeneous society the ability to alter those programs to the present situation is actually enhanced. In a heterogeneous society it is harder.

    You have our situation:

    I have been paying in all these years and plenty of immigrants and their elderly parents have been draining the system. Now you want to cut my benefits to make it easier on those immigrants paying in, many who are still getting welfare to boot? More immigration just makes this worse.

    You have the Japanese situation:

    The Japanese elderly are causing a drain on the system. They see that their children and grandchildren are the ones being hurt. Due to this generational wealth transfer the Japanese elderly have far more than they need. If means testing is applied to the elderly it will just reduce the amount of wealth that will be transferred on their death to their children and grandchildren. That is an easier sell to make to the people.

  84. If Paul Ryan was walking towards you but he was on the right side facing you (you were on the right side walking forward). What would you do? Would you take a right on the grass to avoid a collision? Or would you walk left to avoid contact? Or would you walk straight ahead and go to the next level?

    I await your response!

  85. @David
    What happened to Syon?

    Replies: @Bert, @Bill, @MarkinLA, @Hacienda, @Reg Cæsar

    I thought he was an English professor. School may have started.

  86. @anonymous
    @Harry Baldwin

    Paul Rino wanted to screw seniors and use the money to increase the military AND he thought his great ideas were going to help Romney become president. As Trump would say, LOSER.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Paul Rino wanted to screw seniors…

    Ryan aside, anyone who suggests returning to anything like the Founders’ vision of constitutional federal republican government is going to be slammed as out to “screw seniors”.

    If protecting your SocSec and Medicare is your primary concern, the answer is simple: support the most immigrationist politicians you can find, eg, Luis Guitterrez. Your grandchildren will lose their country, but you’ll get your check, baby, you’ll get your check.

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    @Reg Cæsar

    The complexity and advanced aging in post-industrial societies makes some kind of welfare statism inevitable. We can only choose if it will be done by public or private (LDS) sectors, or if its done at federal (FDR) or state (Coolidge) levels.

    Medicare is the only entitlement program that proportionally benefits GOP voters, and that's the one Paul Ryan wanted to limit. It would be preferable to target Medicaid for illegals instead, by billing the home nation.

    I'm not sure if there is any linkage, but I suspect a link between immigration and inflation, mass immigration has/will lead to fixed income SS declining in value. Much like 1990s Russia.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    , @anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    What you may not realize in regard to Social Security is that Americans gave up something in trade for those senior citizen benefits. A great deal of their privacy rights. The government was thus able to assign and tract each individual citizen by an assigned number. A deal is a deal, no?? Unless you are Paul Rino?

  87. @David
    What happened to Syon?

    Replies: @Bert, @Bill, @MarkinLA, @Hacienda, @Reg Cæsar

    He was un-Unzed.

  88. @Lot
    @Lot

    Here's an extended take on Rand and immigration from a WN type who likes Rand but not her heirs (who live well off her books' royalties and run the ARI):

    http://ariwatch.com/AynRandOnImmigration.htm

    The short version is that she never published a word on the topic directly, and her primary heir Peikoff's ARI dishonestly tries to make her into a open boarderer based on a single Q&A answer she gave off the cuff and late in life at one of the many speeches she toured around the country giving.

    Replies: @Honesthughgrant

    IOW, her disciples are almost all pro-open borders and she herself supported open borders the one time she was asked about it. And she never wrote against the 1965 immigration act. Accordingly, there’s no reason to believe she would have opposed open borders and that’s confirmed by looking at her “principles” ,

    Why are there so many fanatics on the internet who support Rand? Every criticism is met by some sort of “pushback” even when it makes no sense or contradicts other “pushback” made elsewhere on the web.

    Rand’s philosophy was all about the individual. The idea that she would’ve supported any sort of patriotic defense of “Borders” is ludicrous.

    • Replies: @Divine Right
    @Honesthughgrant

    "Why are there so many fanatics on the internet who support Rand?"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

    , @Lot
    @Honesthughgrant

    I hate to defend Rand who had a lot of strange views and a nasty private life, notably telling her husband that she planned on having an affair and demanding, in advance, that he agree this was OK. But it is absurd to attribute to someone a view they kind-of expressed once in a Q&A session when their body of written work covers something like 5,000 pages.


    she herself supported open borders the one time she was asked about it
     
    No, she did not, she once give a muddled and off-the-cuff answer. Anyway I think she'd probably come down on the paleo-lib side: open boarders might be possible in theory, but as long as there is a welfare state and democracy, it will lead to immigration of people who will vote for higher taxes and more welfare in what she considered to be the greatest country in the world.

    She was also not an anarcho-capitalist who rejected any idea of collective public property. Every immigrant dilutes the natives' share of public property, and makes them worse off absent skills that more than off-set the dilution.

    her disciples are almost all pro-open borders
     
    No, they are not. The group around Peikoff is. The millions of random conservatives around the country who like her work also largely oppose open boarders.

    Replies: @Jasper Been

  89. @meh
    Off Topic:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/10/get-rid-borders-completely/409501/

    The Case for Getting Rid of Borders—Completely

    No defensible moral framework regards foreigners as less deserving of rights than people born in the right place at the right time.
     

    Replies: @bomag, @Anonymous, @AnotherDad, @AnAnon

    “No defensible moral framework” – one dedicated to promoting group fitness. and that is defensible because all other moral frameworks will cease to exist.

  90. @anonymous
    @American realist

    Chaffetz is conservative Republican former Jewish Democrat-turned Mormon and right-winger whose stepmother is Kitty Dukakis.

    Replies: @e

    I didn’t know Chaffetz turned Mormon, but I did know his father is the first husband of Katharine Dickson (aka Kitty Dukakis) and that his half brother John is her first born. The latter took Mike Dukakis’surname even though he wasn’t formally adopted by him. Small world.

    • Replies: @Honesthughgrant
    @e

    Chaffetz turned Mormon so he could go to BYU. He was still a Democrat in college and later became John Hunstsman's chief of staff. Any conservative who thinks he'd make a good Speaker is crazy. Why not just make John Huntsman Speaker?

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Anonymous

  91. @Reg Cæsar
    @Wilkey


    Jack Kemp never won a single damn election outside of his congressional district – not one. When he ran for the Republican nomination in 1988 he didn’t win a single state, finished no better than third in any of them, and finished fourth (out of five) in most of them. He received all of 2.7% of the total Republican primary vote.

     

    Yeah, but my point was that he, like Ryan, impressed the party's leaders. The rank-and-file is a whole 'nother story.

    Replies: @e

    Jack Kemp was an almost universally liked and respected pol, known for his good humor and upbeat belief in just about everything, but that was his error–he believed in the oft-repeated Enterprise Zones, as if all it takes is a plunk of money and tax credits to turn a neighborhood from a slum to a thriving community. Seems he never studied outcomes from pouring money into certain schools with certain populations. I wonder were he alive today to study the data, if he’d be any more the wiser, or if he’d be agreeing with Obama about pre-K for all. What would he say about Head Start?

    • Replies: @Honesthughgrant
    @e


    Jack Kemp was an almost universally liked and respected pol, known for his good humor and upbeat belief in just about everything,
     
    No he wasn't "well liked" by a lot of people. A lot of Californians - including Pete Wilson - never forgot that he came to California in 1994 and called everyone who supported Prop 187 and disliked illegal immigration a bunch of "racists".

    Nor did a lot of Republicans like it when he agreed with Al Gore in the 1996 VP debate that the Republican party was full of "racists".

    , @europeasant
    @e

    I once met a lawyer that said to me: "All people are created equal"

    In this day(2015) Okay I would believe that , what, with all the brainwashing and all from K-12 and college!
    But 30 years ago or so, No Way!this day! No way!

    The brainwashing has been on going for a lot longer than that!

    , @Wilkey
    @e

    "I wonder were he alive today to study the data, if he’d be any more the wiser, or if he’d be agreeing with Obama about pre-K for all. What would he say about Head Start?"

    The man died in 2009, not 1909. The data was all already there. He just didn't care. We wasn't an intellectual - he was a guy from an infomercial.

    Jack Kemp fought for exactly what the business lobby wanted, while working for an organization masquerading as grass roots. Specifically, he was a whore who worked for an organization - Empower America, now known as FreedomWorks - which hijacks the efforts of real conservatives by pretending to represent them. Paul Ryan worked with Kemp at Empower America. The goal of groups like FreedomWorks is to distract conservatives' attention from issues the business lobby doesn't agree with them on - like illegal immigration.

    Kemp wanted the Republican Party to abandon fighting on social issues and to embrace affirmative action and illegal immigration, and to embrace tax cuts and cheap labor for businesses.

    Kemp went to California in 1994 and actively campaigned against Prop 187. The political situation as it exists in California today is exactly what Jack Kemp wanted, whether he knew it or not.

  92. @tformation
    @Chris L

    "Plus, when you can’t even ax the ExIm bank, how much of a budget cutter are you? "

    In other words, "He didn't cut what I think he should cut! Therefore he didn't cut anything!"

    Again, spreading the pain equally between democrats & republicans is what Ryan does well. Sorry, but we're not at apocalypse now yet with immigration. Just because Ryan isn't vocally agreeing with you on this issue, doesn't mean he is against you.

    Replies: @Lot

    Sorry, but we’re not at apocalypse now yet with immigration.

    We have a non-white majority for the under 5 age group in America, soon to expand to under 10 and eventually the whole country.

    Just because Ryan isn’t vocally agreeing with you on this issue, doesn’t mean he is against you.

    Except, as the article from Wired in 1996 shows, Ryan was a behind-the-scenes open boarders advocate even before he was in Congress.

    NumbersUSA gives him a life-time score of B-. Of the Republicans in their “lifetime” database, 41 score worse, 17 score the same, and 187 score better. So he is is worse than about 75% of the House GOP. And if you consider only the current House GOP, which is now better than it used to be, he’s more like in the bottom 15%.

  93. @tformation
    Ryan was key in making the sequester happen. He seems very good at spreading pain equally between democratic & republican pet projects.

    There are other issues besides immigration...

    Replies: @Chris L, @Spoons, @AnAnon

    “Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?”

  94. @AndrewR
    @Lot

    I honestly don't care enough to spend time finding a citation, but I'm quite certain Sanders has flip-flopped on immigration. He's pro open borders because the left overwhelmingly is, just like he's pro BLM because the left overwhelmingly is. One could call him pragmatic, a coward or an opportunist but he certainly seems to go with the tide on immigration.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    But Sanders probably isn’t a True Believer in Immigration Uber Alles.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Steve Sailer


    But Sanders probably isn’t a True Believer in Immigration Uber Alles.
     
    Sanders was once one of about 15% of democrats in Congress who tended to vote against more immigration, including Bush's amnesty bill, and he was vocal in opposing guest worker programs. Obama's election and the retirement/defeat of both NE moderate Republicans and Southern Democrats made immigration into a purely partisan issue. At that point Sanders would have looked extremely conspicuous if he continued to oppose mass immigration.

    Another Democrat with a similar history, willing to defy most but not all of his party, is Peter DeFazio of Oregon.
    , @eah
    @Steve Sailer

    To consistently oppose immigration -- for whatever reason -- you have to be willing to be called a racist -- admittedly Republicans are more often targeted, but in a heated race, it will happen (after all, he's white) -- re that, review the way Sanders meekly stood aside and let a few #BlackLivesMatter dolts hijack one of his events -- would Sanders really be any better on immigration? -- do you really want to take a chance on that? -- can you really see a wimp like that as President?

  95. @Honesthughgrant
    @Lot

    IOW, her disciples are almost all pro-open borders and she herself supported open borders the one time she was asked about it. And she never wrote against the 1965 immigration act. Accordingly, there's no reason to believe she would have opposed open borders and that's confirmed by looking at her "principles" ,

    Why are there so many fanatics on the internet who support Rand? Every criticism is met by some sort of "pushback" even when it makes no sense or contradicts other "pushback" made elsewhere on the web.

    Rand's philosophy was all about the individual. The idea that she would've supported any sort of patriotic defense of "Borders" is ludicrous.

    Replies: @Divine Right, @Lot

    “Why are there so many fanatics on the internet who support Rand?”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

  96. @Honesthughgrant
    @Lot

    IOW, her disciples are almost all pro-open borders and she herself supported open borders the one time she was asked about it. And she never wrote against the 1965 immigration act. Accordingly, there's no reason to believe she would have opposed open borders and that's confirmed by looking at her "principles" ,

    Why are there so many fanatics on the internet who support Rand? Every criticism is met by some sort of "pushback" even when it makes no sense or contradicts other "pushback" made elsewhere on the web.

    Rand's philosophy was all about the individual. The idea that she would've supported any sort of patriotic defense of "Borders" is ludicrous.

    Replies: @Divine Right, @Lot

    I hate to defend Rand who had a lot of strange views and a nasty private life, notably telling her husband that she planned on having an affair and demanding, in advance, that he agree this was OK. But it is absurd to attribute to someone a view they kind-of expressed once in a Q&A session when their body of written work covers something like 5,000 pages.

    she herself supported open borders the one time she was asked about it

    No, she did not, she once give a muddled and off-the-cuff answer. Anyway I think she’d probably come down on the paleo-lib side: open boarders might be possible in theory, but as long as there is a welfare state and democracy, it will lead to immigration of people who will vote for higher taxes and more welfare in what she considered to be the greatest country in the world.

    She was also not an anarcho-capitalist who rejected any idea of collective public property. Every immigrant dilutes the natives’ share of public property, and makes them worse off absent skills that more than off-set the dilution.

    her disciples are almost all pro-open borders

    No, they are not. The group around Peikoff is. The millions of random conservatives around the country who like her work also largely oppose open boarders.

    • Replies: @Jasper Been
    @Lot

    Thank you Lot for injecting some sanity and reality in this conversation vis a vis Ayn Rand!

    As for Paul Ryan being a "devotee" of hers, he is a damn poor one. Exhibit A is the fact he voted in favor of the Wall Street/bank bailout in 2008.

    I live in WI's 1st District. I wish I had the money to run again him as an immigration/ecomonic patriot moderate Democrat.

    Replies: @Lot

  97. @e
    @Reg Cæsar

    Jack Kemp was an almost universally liked and respected pol, known for his good humor and upbeat belief in just about everything, but that was his error--he believed in the oft-repeated Enterprise Zones, as if all it takes is a plunk of money and tax credits to turn a neighborhood from a slum to a thriving community. Seems he never studied outcomes from pouring money into certain schools with certain populations. I wonder were he alive today to study the data, if he'd be any more the wiser, or if he'd be agreeing with Obama about pre-K for all. What would he say about Head Start?

    Replies: @Honesthughgrant, @europeasant, @Wilkey

    Jack Kemp was an almost universally liked and respected pol, known for his good humor and upbeat belief in just about everything,

    No he wasn’t “well liked” by a lot of people. A lot of Californians – including Pete Wilson – never forgot that he came to California in 1994 and called everyone who supported Prop 187 and disliked illegal immigration a bunch of “racists”.

    Nor did a lot of Republicans like it when he agreed with Al Gore in the 1996 VP debate that the Republican party was full of “racists”.

  98. Having worked in Wisconsin politics, I will say that I think guys like Walker and Paul get their naivete on immigration honestly.

    Wisconsin is lily white. I think in most metropolitan areas blacks are still the dominant minority, and probably at less than the national average. You do not see many hispanics, even when compared to other midwesten states. Even the most fringe right wing conservatives up here don’t get the immigration thing. The proximity isn’t here.

    Paul is a fairly respectable guy and would probably listen to reason on immigration. OTOH, why take that chance when he doesn’t even want the job, anyways.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Polynikes

    The blacks of Milwaukee and Madison are worse behaved than the average African-Americans. While other blacks went north in the 1940s and 1950s for jobs, Milwaukee and Madison have a lot of blacks who finally came north in the 1960s and 1970s for welfare. It's only natural for guys like Ryan thus to see Mexican immigrants as a huge improvement over African Americans.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Anonym

  99. @Steve Sailer
    @AndrewR

    But Sanders probably isn't a True Believer in Immigration Uber Alles.

    Replies: @Lot, @eah

    But Sanders probably isn’t a True Believer in Immigration Uber Alles.

    Sanders was once one of about 15% of democrats in Congress who tended to vote against more immigration, including Bush’s amnesty bill, and he was vocal in opposing guest worker programs. Obama’s election and the retirement/defeat of both NE moderate Republicans and Southern Democrats made immigration into a purely partisan issue. At that point Sanders would have looked extremely conspicuous if he continued to oppose mass immigration.

    Another Democrat with a similar history, willing to defy most but not all of his party, is Peter DeFazio of Oregon.

  100. @e
    @anonymous

    I didn't know Chaffetz turned Mormon, but I did know his father is the first husband of Katharine Dickson (aka Kitty Dukakis) and that his half brother John is her first born. The latter took Mike Dukakis'surname even though he wasn't formally adopted by him. Small world.

    Replies: @Honesthughgrant

    Chaffetz turned Mormon so he could go to BYU. He was still a Democrat in college and later became John Hunstsman’s chief of staff. Any conservative who thinks he’d make a good Speaker is crazy. Why not just make John Huntsman Speaker?

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @Honesthughgrant

    "Chaffetz turned Mormon so he could go to BYU. He was still a Democrat in college and later became John Hunstsman’s chief of staff. Any conservative who thinks he’d make a good Speaker is crazy. Why not just make John Huntsman Speaker?"

    Chaffetz supported Mike Dukakis in '88 because of the fact that his father's first wife was Kitty Dukakis, Mike Dukakis's wife. Chafftez has an older half-brother who is the son of Kitty and who actually changed his last name to Dukakis.

    Chaffetz never had to become a Mormon to attend BYU, and he only converted in his last year there. Steve Sarkisian, to mention someone currently in the news, was a BYU quarterback who never converted. Jim McMahon never became a Mormon, either.

    While BYU may require its students to be active in some religion (I'm not quite certain), it doesn't require them to be Mormon. The heavy religious emphasis and the restrictions placed on students (no coffee, no alcohol, and no premarital sex, etc.) ensure that the vast majority are - something like 99%, if I'm not mistaken.

    And Jon Huntsman, Jr., supposedly hates Chaffetz, fwiw.

    Replies: @(((Owen))), @Mr. Anon, @tbraton

    , @Anonymous
    @Honesthughgrant

    Lena Dunham. You do not have to be a member to be speaker and this chick would get even more camera time that she desires.

  101. @jack ryan
    Hi Steve,

    I bicycled in the Obama Hyde Park Chicago neighborhood where I was born and raised.

    I noticed that there is a Jewish synagogue less than one block from Obama's mansion that looks, to me at least, like an Islamic mosque!

    Sort of weird, but so was the rapid rise of an obscure Illinois state representative Barack Obama - the bastard son of a Kenyan Muslim to US Senator and President of the United States

    Here's our take:

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2015/10/12/15th-century-spain-muslims-jews-and-our-guys/

    I would enjoy hearing the Steve Sailer interpretation.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Hibernian

    That synagogue is K.A. M. Isaiah Israel. It’s never been a mosque and has been around a long time,

  102. When you talk about places like Australia and Canada, it can actually accomodate 100 million easy, I mean look at the population density of Taiwan or South Korea compared to British Columbia or New South Wales.Just make everybody live in 70 storey flats like people in Hong Kong or Singapore do.

    • Replies: @The Albino Sasquatch
    @rvg

    Will have to disagree with you there - what a lot of people don't realize is that most of Australia is desert and not suitable for human habitation. The only areas that can support civilization are the coastal fringes, that's why there are no major urban areas in the middle of Australia. You could cram people in high rises - like in Hong Kong or India, but I'm not sure most Australians would be happy with that. With demographics going the way they are high though - the majority of the people we import and let in are quite happy with that, so that's probably the way we'll end up.

  103. @Reg Cæsar
    @anonymous


    Paul Rino wanted to screw seniors…
     
    Ryan aside, anyone who suggests returning to anything like the Founders' vision of constitutional federal republican government is going to be slammed as out to "screw seniors".

    If protecting your SocSec and Medicare is your primary concern, the answer is simple: support the most immigrationist politicians you can find, eg, Luis Guitterrez. Your grandchildren will lose their country, but you'll get your check, baby, you'll get your check.

    Replies: @Maj. Kong, @anonymous

    The complexity and advanced aging in post-industrial societies makes some kind of welfare statism inevitable. We can only choose if it will be done by public or private (LDS) sectors, or if its done at federal (FDR) or state (Coolidge) levels.

    Medicare is the only entitlement program that proportionally benefits GOP voters, and that’s the one Paul Ryan wanted to limit. It would be preferable to target Medicaid for illegals instead, by billing the home nation.

    I’m not sure if there is any linkage, but I suspect a link between immigration and inflation, mass immigration has/will lead to fixed income SS declining in value. Much like 1990s Russia.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Maj. Kong

    "...by billing the home nation."

    I'm not holding my breath while waiting for those bills to be paid.

  104. It is really quite simple: Paul Ryan will ALWAYS favor capital over labor, no matter where that leads specific policy preferences. Capital interests consider an increase in the supply of labor to their favor since it can weaken the leverage of individuals who rely on selling their labor for most of their income.

  105. @anonymous
    @EriK

    The intentional misspelling is an expression of disrespect and contempt.

    Replies: @EriK

    You’re more clever than I thought. Although “Timmy” might have worked better.

  106. @e
    @Reg Cæsar

    Jack Kemp was an almost universally liked and respected pol, known for his good humor and upbeat belief in just about everything, but that was his error--he believed in the oft-repeated Enterprise Zones, as if all it takes is a plunk of money and tax credits to turn a neighborhood from a slum to a thriving community. Seems he never studied outcomes from pouring money into certain schools with certain populations. I wonder were he alive today to study the data, if he'd be any more the wiser, or if he'd be agreeing with Obama about pre-K for all. What would he say about Head Start?

    Replies: @Honesthughgrant, @europeasant, @Wilkey

    I once met a lawyer that said to me: “All people are created equal”

    In this day(2015) Okay I would believe that , what, with all the brainwashing and all from K-12 and college!
    But 30 years ago or so, No Way!this day! No way!

    The brainwashing has been on going for a lot longer than that!

  107. @e
    @Reg Cæsar

    Jack Kemp was an almost universally liked and respected pol, known for his good humor and upbeat belief in just about everything, but that was his error--he believed in the oft-repeated Enterprise Zones, as if all it takes is a plunk of money and tax credits to turn a neighborhood from a slum to a thriving community. Seems he never studied outcomes from pouring money into certain schools with certain populations. I wonder were he alive today to study the data, if he'd be any more the wiser, or if he'd be agreeing with Obama about pre-K for all. What would he say about Head Start?

    Replies: @Honesthughgrant, @europeasant, @Wilkey

    “I wonder were he alive today to study the data, if he’d be any more the wiser, or if he’d be agreeing with Obama about pre-K for all. What would he say about Head Start?”

    The man died in 2009, not 1909. The data was all already there. He just didn’t care. We wasn’t an intellectual – he was a guy from an infomercial.

    Jack Kemp fought for exactly what the business lobby wanted, while working for an organization masquerading as grass roots. Specifically, he was a whore who worked for an organization – Empower America, now known as FreedomWorks – which hijacks the efforts of real conservatives by pretending to represent them. Paul Ryan worked with Kemp at Empower America. The goal of groups like FreedomWorks is to distract conservatives’ attention from issues the business lobby doesn’t agree with them on – like illegal immigration.

    Kemp wanted the Republican Party to abandon fighting on social issues and to embrace affirmative action and illegal immigration, and to embrace tax cuts and cheap labor for businesses.

    Kemp went to California in 1994 and actively campaigned against Prop 187. The political situation as it exists in California today is exactly what Jack Kemp wanted, whether he knew it or not.

  108. @Polynikes
    Having worked in Wisconsin politics, I will say that I think guys like Walker and Paul get their naivete on immigration honestly.

    Wisconsin is lily white. I think in most metropolitan areas blacks are still the dominant minority, and probably at less than the national average. You do not see many hispanics, even when compared to other midwesten states. Even the most fringe right wing conservatives up here don't get the immigration thing. The proximity isn't here.

    Paul is a fairly respectable guy and would probably listen to reason on immigration. OTOH, why take that chance when he doesn't even want the job, anyways.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    The blacks of Milwaukee and Madison are worse behaved than the average African-Americans. While other blacks went north in the 1940s and 1950s for jobs, Milwaukee and Madison have a lot of blacks who finally came north in the 1960s and 1970s for welfare. It’s only natural for guys like Ryan thus to see Mexican immigrants as a huge improvement over African Americans.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Steve Sailer

    Death or Ooga Booga.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    , @Anonym
    @Steve Sailer

    Merkel should take note. If black migration to Wisconsin is any guide, the Muslims heading for the welfare states in Europe will be the most brazen, shameless and irresponsible of the bunch.

    Are the most generous welfare states in the US are those with the most German and Scandinavian populations?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  109. @Steve Sailer
    @Polynikes

    The blacks of Milwaukee and Madison are worse behaved than the average African-Americans. While other blacks went north in the 1940s and 1950s for jobs, Milwaukee and Madison have a lot of blacks who finally came north in the 1960s and 1970s for welfare. It's only natural for guys like Ryan thus to see Mexican immigrants as a huge improvement over African Americans.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Anonym

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Dave Pinsen

    "Death or Ooga Booga."

    A good analogy. Well cited.

  110. @Honesthughgrant
    @e

    Chaffetz turned Mormon so he could go to BYU. He was still a Democrat in college and later became John Hunstsman's chief of staff. Any conservative who thinks he'd make a good Speaker is crazy. Why not just make John Huntsman Speaker?

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Anonymous

    “Chaffetz turned Mormon so he could go to BYU. He was still a Democrat in college and later became John Hunstsman’s chief of staff. Any conservative who thinks he’d make a good Speaker is crazy. Why not just make John Huntsman Speaker?”

    Chaffetz supported Mike Dukakis in ’88 because of the fact that his father’s first wife was Kitty Dukakis, Mike Dukakis’s wife. Chafftez has an older half-brother who is the son of Kitty and who actually changed his last name to Dukakis.

    Chaffetz never had to become a Mormon to attend BYU, and he only converted in his last year there. Steve Sarkisian, to mention someone currently in the news, was a BYU quarterback who never converted. Jim McMahon never became a Mormon, either.

    While BYU may require its students to be active in some religion (I’m not quite certain), it doesn’t require them to be Mormon. The heavy religious emphasis and the restrictions placed on students (no coffee, no alcohol, and no premarital sex, etc.) ensure that the vast majority are – something like 99%, if I’m not mistaken.

    And Jon Huntsman, Jr., supposedly hates Chaffetz, fwiw.

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
    @Wilkey

    The Y (BYU) requires that you have a temple recommend signed by your bishop if you're a member of the Church or else that you have a letter of good standing from your minister in another church. Non-members have to pay additional tuition because tithing to the Church subsidizes the tuition of members.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Wilkey

    "Chaffetz supported Mike Dukakis in ’88 because of the fact that his father’s first wife was Kitty Dukakis, Mike Dukakis’s wife."

    Awfully cuck, wouldn't you say? That's hardly making the case for Chaffetz.

    , @tbraton
    @Wilkey

    I was familiar with the Chaffetz name for several years but frankly knew little about him. When his name popped up recently as a potential Speaker of the House and he appeared on This Week on Sunday, I decided to Google him. Once I read the Wikipedia account, which laid out the facts you cited above, I had to shake my head in wonderment at the incongruities. The Kitty Dukakis connection amazed me. But you left out the key fact that his mother, who succeeded Kitty, was a Christian Scientist, but Jason considered his religion to be Jewish when he entered BYU on an athletic scholarship. As you correctly note, he converted to Mormonism his senior year at BYU. I was so astounded by his convoluted biography that I emailed a Mormon friend I have known for more than 10 years to get her reaction. I got an automatic response informing me that she was out of town for a week, so I guess I will have to wait. BTW, the fact that he is now Mormon indicates that he takes a fairly liberal approach to immigration since that is the official position of the Mormon Church. The fact that he considered himself Jewish until his senior year at BYU probably contributed as well.

    BTW that is an interesting observation about Huntsman. FWIW here is what Wikipedia says about the Chaffetz-Huntsman connection:

    "In 2004, Chaffetz was the campaign manager for Utah gubernatorial candidate Jon Huntsman. Huntsman won the race, and when he took office in January 2005, Chaffetz became Huntsman's chief of staff.[12] In November 2005, Chaffetz left that position to manage his own company, Maxtera Utah, a corporate communications and marketing company.

    In 2006, Chaffetz was appointed by Huntsman as a trustee for Utah Valley State College.[13] Chaffetz has also served as a member of the Highland City planning commission and as chairman for the Utah National Guard adjutant general review."

    Replies: @tbraton

  111. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    @anonymous


    Paul Rino wanted to screw seniors…
     
    Ryan aside, anyone who suggests returning to anything like the Founders' vision of constitutional federal republican government is going to be slammed as out to "screw seniors".

    If protecting your SocSec and Medicare is your primary concern, the answer is simple: support the most immigrationist politicians you can find, eg, Luis Guitterrez. Your grandchildren will lose their country, but you'll get your check, baby, you'll get your check.

    Replies: @Maj. Kong, @anonymous

    What you may not realize in regard to Social Security is that Americans gave up something in trade for those senior citizen benefits. A great deal of their privacy rights. The government was thus able to assign and tract each individual citizen by an assigned number. A deal is a deal, no?? Unless you are Paul Rino?

  112. @NOTA
    @AndrewR

    If I recall correctly, Hitler wasnt all that committed to the sanctity of borders. Particularly not the borders of, say, Poland, Czechloslavakia, Austria, France, Belgium, Russia, or the Netherlands.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @AndrewR, @Jeremiahjohnbalaya

    That would make a great image, bumper sticker, or t-shirt. Something like “Hitler Supported Open Borders” and then a map showing his armies bursting through the borders of various countries.

  113. @David
    What happened to Syon?

    Replies: @Bert, @Bill, @MarkinLA, @Hacienda, @Reg Cæsar

    What happened to Syon?

    If you play the record backwards, “syon” becomes “noise”.

  114. @Anonym
    @Hunsdon

    I think Steve forgot to put in "between" and typed "years" instead of "ears".

    As in, "But Ryan seems to be a genuine enthusiast, the kind of person who has nothing between the ears."

    Replies: @Hunsdon

    I think that would be an equally valid interpretation.

  115. @AndrewR
    Believing in borders makes one literally Hitler.

    Replies: @NOTA, @JSM, @fish

    No, Andrew. It is not possible to *literally* become Hitler.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    @JSM

    Indeed, one can only become a smidgen less bad than Hitler, or as bad as Hitler, or worse than Hitler, but not literally Hitler.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @JSM



    No, Andrew. It is not possible to *literally* become Hitler.

     

    Yes, you can. Under common law, you can change your name to anything, except for purposes of fraud. You don't need a judge.

    (You wouldn't want one. He may turn down a "scandalous" name. As if a surname could be scandalous.)

    You can indeed literally become Hitler.
  116. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @JSM
    @AndrewR

    No, Andrew. It is not possible to *literally* become Hitler.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Reg Cæsar

    Indeed, one can only become a smidgen less bad than Hitler, or as bad as Hitler, or worse than Hitler, but not literally Hitler.

  117. @rvg
    When you talk about places like Australia and Canada, it can actually accomodate 100 million easy, I mean look at the population density of Taiwan or South Korea compared to British Columbia or New South Wales.Just make everybody live in 70 storey flats like people in Hong Kong or Singapore do.

    Replies: @The Albino Sasquatch

    Will have to disagree with you there – what a lot of people don’t realize is that most of Australia is desert and not suitable for human habitation. The only areas that can support civilization are the coastal fringes, that’s why there are no major urban areas in the middle of Australia. You could cram people in high rises – like in Hong Kong or India, but I’m not sure most Australians would be happy with that. With demographics going the way they are high though – the majority of the people we import and let in are quite happy with that, so that’s probably the way we’ll end up.

  118. @Steve Sailer
    @Polynikes

    The blacks of Milwaukee and Madison are worse behaved than the average African-Americans. While other blacks went north in the 1940s and 1950s for jobs, Milwaukee and Madison have a lot of blacks who finally came north in the 1960s and 1970s for welfare. It's only natural for guys like Ryan thus to see Mexican immigrants as a huge improvement over African Americans.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Anonym

    Merkel should take note. If black migration to Wisconsin is any guide, the Muslims heading for the welfare states in Europe will be the most brazen, shameless and irresponsible of the bunch.

    Are the most generous welfare states in the US are those with the most German and Scandinavian populations?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonym


    Are the most generous welfare states in the US are those with the most German and Scandinavian populations?

     

    Of course. Those peoples are saddled with enough guilt not only to create them, but also to refuse to abuse them.

    Replies: @Anonym

  119. @Steve Sailer
    @AndrewR

    But Sanders probably isn't a True Believer in Immigration Uber Alles.

    Replies: @Lot, @eah

    To consistently oppose immigration — for whatever reason — you have to be willing to be called a racist — admittedly Republicans are more often targeted, but in a heated race, it will happen (after all, he’s white) — re that, review the way Sanders meekly stood aside and let a few #BlackLivesMatter dolts hijack one of his events — would Sanders really be any better on immigration? — do you really want to take a chance on that? — can you really see a wimp like that as President?

  120. @Wilkey
    @Honesthughgrant

    "Chaffetz turned Mormon so he could go to BYU. He was still a Democrat in college and later became John Hunstsman’s chief of staff. Any conservative who thinks he’d make a good Speaker is crazy. Why not just make John Huntsman Speaker?"

    Chaffetz supported Mike Dukakis in '88 because of the fact that his father's first wife was Kitty Dukakis, Mike Dukakis's wife. Chafftez has an older half-brother who is the son of Kitty and who actually changed his last name to Dukakis.

    Chaffetz never had to become a Mormon to attend BYU, and he only converted in his last year there. Steve Sarkisian, to mention someone currently in the news, was a BYU quarterback who never converted. Jim McMahon never became a Mormon, either.

    While BYU may require its students to be active in some religion (I'm not quite certain), it doesn't require them to be Mormon. The heavy religious emphasis and the restrictions placed on students (no coffee, no alcohol, and no premarital sex, etc.) ensure that the vast majority are - something like 99%, if I'm not mistaken.

    And Jon Huntsman, Jr., supposedly hates Chaffetz, fwiw.

    Replies: @(((Owen))), @Mr. Anon, @tbraton

    The Y (BYU) requires that you have a temple recommend signed by your bishop if you’re a member of the Church or else that you have a letter of good standing from your minister in another church. Non-members have to pay additional tuition because tithing to the Church subsidizes the tuition of members.

  121. @Lot
    @Honesthughgrant

    I hate to defend Rand who had a lot of strange views and a nasty private life, notably telling her husband that she planned on having an affair and demanding, in advance, that he agree this was OK. But it is absurd to attribute to someone a view they kind-of expressed once in a Q&A session when their body of written work covers something like 5,000 pages.


    she herself supported open borders the one time she was asked about it
     
    No, she did not, she once give a muddled and off-the-cuff answer. Anyway I think she'd probably come down on the paleo-lib side: open boarders might be possible in theory, but as long as there is a welfare state and democracy, it will lead to immigration of people who will vote for higher taxes and more welfare in what she considered to be the greatest country in the world.

    She was also not an anarcho-capitalist who rejected any idea of collective public property. Every immigrant dilutes the natives' share of public property, and makes them worse off absent skills that more than off-set the dilution.

    her disciples are almost all pro-open borders
     
    No, they are not. The group around Peikoff is. The millions of random conservatives around the country who like her work also largely oppose open boarders.

    Replies: @Jasper Been

    Thank you Lot for injecting some sanity and reality in this conversation vis a vis Ayn Rand!

    As for Paul Ryan being a “devotee” of hers, he is a damn poor one. Exhibit A is the fact he voted in favor of the Wall Street/bank bailout in 2008.

    I live in WI’s 1st District. I wish I had the money to run again him as an immigration/ecomonic patriot moderate Democrat.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Jasper Been


    I live in WI’s 1st District. I wish I had the money to run again him as an immigration/ecomonic patriot moderate Democrat.
     
    Dave Brat beat the #3 republican in the house as a professor in a third tier college. Don't sell yourself short, you can do it if he can.

    Much better to challenge him in the primary though. With limited resources, you need to focus on one issue, so make it immigration. You'll have a positive effect even if you lose. The place to push Ryan's unpopular position on cutting social security is targeted direct mail.

    The place to start is to see who ran Dave Brat's campaign and see if they have any advice for you.

    I am concerned that if at least one pro amnesty member doesn't lose a primary every cycle the House GOP might start feeling secure in caving into the massive pressure the business lobby exerts on every member.
  122. @Honesthughgrant
    @e

    Chaffetz turned Mormon so he could go to BYU. He was still a Democrat in college and later became John Hunstsman's chief of staff. Any conservative who thinks he'd make a good Speaker is crazy. Why not just make John Huntsman Speaker?

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Anonymous

    Lena Dunham. You do not have to be a member to be speaker and this chick would get even more camera time that she desires.

  123. @tbraton
    I never understood Romney's selection of Ryan as his running mate in 2012, and I have never understood the enduring appeal of Ryan. He has never run for statewide office in Wisconsin. So, even in Wisconsin, his appeal seems to be somewhat limited. A career politician, sort of like Marco Rubio. At least Rubio ran for and won statewide office, but his decision not to run for reelection indicates that he was uncertain about his chances or he felt that he has a good shot at getting the VP slot. Isn't there a contradiction between being an Ayn Rand enthusiast and being a career politician?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @anonymous, @Mr. Anon

    “Isn’t there a contradiction between being an Ayn Rand enthusiast and being a career politician?”

    There is (or one would assume ought to be) a contradiciton between actually knowing anything about Ayn Rand or having read one of her tedious books and being an Ayn Rand enthusiast. And yet that does not deter her enthusiasts.

    • Replies: @tbraton
    @Mr. Anon

    "There is (or one would assume ought to be) a contradiciton between actually knowing anything about Ayn Rand or having read one of her tedious books and being an Ayn Rand enthusiast."

    That's why I found so amusing the Wikipedia account about his involvement with Ayn Rand, which I posted in message #72 above. His disavowal of having any connection with Ayn Rand's thinking is hilarious: "He also called the reports of his adherence to Rand’s views an “urban legend” and stated that he was deeply influenced by his Roman Catholic faith and by Thomas Aquinas." That's what makes politicians so unique: their uncanny ability to say the most absurd thing with a straight face without bursting into laughter. I think his statement that "I think Ayn Rand did the best job of anybody to build a moral case of capitalism, and that morality of capitalism is under assault” merely shows that he had never heard of, much less read, any Adam Smith, who was, before he wrote "Wealth of Nations," considered the work which established him as the "father of modern economics," a moral philosopher and the author of "The Theory of Moral Sentiments."

  124. Wisconsin is not immune to the enriching diversity of immigration. Mexican drug cartels are now growing marijuana in the Northwoods region of Wisconsin. Any bets on how long it takes before decapitated corpses start showing up there?

  125. @Dave Pinsen
    @Steve Sailer

    Death or Ooga Booga.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    “Death or Ooga Booga.”

    A good analogy. Well cited.

    • Agree: Dave Pinsen
  126. @Wilkey
    @Honesthughgrant

    "Chaffetz turned Mormon so he could go to BYU. He was still a Democrat in college and later became John Hunstsman’s chief of staff. Any conservative who thinks he’d make a good Speaker is crazy. Why not just make John Huntsman Speaker?"

    Chaffetz supported Mike Dukakis in '88 because of the fact that his father's first wife was Kitty Dukakis, Mike Dukakis's wife. Chafftez has an older half-brother who is the son of Kitty and who actually changed his last name to Dukakis.

    Chaffetz never had to become a Mormon to attend BYU, and he only converted in his last year there. Steve Sarkisian, to mention someone currently in the news, was a BYU quarterback who never converted. Jim McMahon never became a Mormon, either.

    While BYU may require its students to be active in some religion (I'm not quite certain), it doesn't require them to be Mormon. The heavy religious emphasis and the restrictions placed on students (no coffee, no alcohol, and no premarital sex, etc.) ensure that the vast majority are - something like 99%, if I'm not mistaken.

    And Jon Huntsman, Jr., supposedly hates Chaffetz, fwiw.

    Replies: @(((Owen))), @Mr. Anon, @tbraton

    “Chaffetz supported Mike Dukakis in ’88 because of the fact that his father’s first wife was Kitty Dukakis, Mike Dukakis’s wife.”

    Awfully cuck, wouldn’t you say? That’s hardly making the case for Chaffetz.

  127. @JSM
    @AndrewR

    No, Andrew. It is not possible to *literally* become Hitler.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Reg Cæsar

    No, Andrew. It is not possible to *literally* become Hitler.

    Yes, you can. Under common law, you can change your name to anything, except for purposes of fraud. You don’t need a judge.

    (You wouldn’t want one. He may turn down a “scandalous” name. As if a surname could be scandalous.)

    You can indeed literally become Hitler.

  128. @Anonym
    @Steve Sailer

    Merkel should take note. If black migration to Wisconsin is any guide, the Muslims heading for the welfare states in Europe will be the most brazen, shameless and irresponsible of the bunch.

    Are the most generous welfare states in the US are those with the most German and Scandinavian populations?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Are the most generous welfare states in the US are those with the most German and Scandinavian populations?

    Of course. Those peoples are saddled with enough guilt not only to create them, but also to refuse to abuse them.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    @Reg Cæsar

    It is interesting then how the current economic migrant crisis mirrors the earlier example set within the USA, and by the same people. Welfare state or free movement of people, pick one.

  129. @AndrewR
    Believing in borders makes one literally Hitler.

    Replies: @NOTA, @JSM, @fish

    hy·per·bo·le

    hīˈpərbəlē/

    noun

    exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

    synonyms: exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, embroidery, embellishment, excess, overkill, rhetoric;

    It eludes them…..

  130. @EriK
    @anonymous

    Any relation to Tom Cotton?

    Replies: @anonymous, @fish

    Any relation to Tom Cotton?

    Twin brother actually…..

    In any case I’m not sure that either will be serving in a Bush administration in the immediate future.

  131. @Wilkey
    @Honesthughgrant

    "Chaffetz turned Mormon so he could go to BYU. He was still a Democrat in college and later became John Hunstsman’s chief of staff. Any conservative who thinks he’d make a good Speaker is crazy. Why not just make John Huntsman Speaker?"

    Chaffetz supported Mike Dukakis in '88 because of the fact that his father's first wife was Kitty Dukakis, Mike Dukakis's wife. Chafftez has an older half-brother who is the son of Kitty and who actually changed his last name to Dukakis.

    Chaffetz never had to become a Mormon to attend BYU, and he only converted in his last year there. Steve Sarkisian, to mention someone currently in the news, was a BYU quarterback who never converted. Jim McMahon never became a Mormon, either.

    While BYU may require its students to be active in some religion (I'm not quite certain), it doesn't require them to be Mormon. The heavy religious emphasis and the restrictions placed on students (no coffee, no alcohol, and no premarital sex, etc.) ensure that the vast majority are - something like 99%, if I'm not mistaken.

    And Jon Huntsman, Jr., supposedly hates Chaffetz, fwiw.

    Replies: @(((Owen))), @Mr. Anon, @tbraton

    I was familiar with the Chaffetz name for several years but frankly knew little about him. When his name popped up recently as a potential Speaker of the House and he appeared on This Week on Sunday, I decided to Google him. Once I read the Wikipedia account, which laid out the facts you cited above, I had to shake my head in wonderment at the incongruities. The Kitty Dukakis connection amazed me. But you left out the key fact that his mother, who succeeded Kitty, was a Christian Scientist, but Jason considered his religion to be Jewish when he entered BYU on an athletic scholarship. As you correctly note, he converted to Mormonism his senior year at BYU. I was so astounded by his convoluted biography that I emailed a Mormon friend I have known for more than 10 years to get her reaction. I got an automatic response informing me that she was out of town for a week, so I guess I will have to wait. BTW, the fact that he is now Mormon indicates that he takes a fairly liberal approach to immigration since that is the official position of the Mormon Church. The fact that he considered himself Jewish until his senior year at BYU probably contributed as well.

    BTW that is an interesting observation about Huntsman. FWIW here is what Wikipedia says about the Chaffetz-Huntsman connection:

    “In 2004, Chaffetz was the campaign manager for Utah gubernatorial candidate Jon Huntsman. Huntsman won the race, and when he took office in January 2005, Chaffetz became Huntsman’s chief of staff.[12] In November 2005, Chaffetz left that position to manage his own company, Maxtera Utah, a corporate communications and marketing company.

    In 2006, Chaffetz was appointed by Huntsman as a trustee for Utah Valley State College.[13] Chaffetz has also served as a member of the Highland City planning commission and as chairman for the Utah National Guard adjutant general review.”

    • Replies: @tbraton
    @tbraton

    I tried to edit the prior message in a timely manner, but once again I was informed (despite plenty of time remaining on the clock) that the time to edit had expired. I was going to add the following:

    "Wikipedia also has the following observation: 'Despite their different political affiliations, Chaffetz remains close to his half-brother and the Dukakis family.[7] While a student at BYU, Chaffetz was Utah co-chairman of Dukakis' 1988 presidential campaign. After college, Chaffetz worked about a decade in public relations for a multi-level marketing company, Nu Skin International.[8][9]' I believe "multi-level marketing" is simply another expression for "Ponzi scheme." "

  132. What happened to Syon?

    I was going to ask the same thing about Twinkie but he turned up again recently.

  133. @tbraton
    @Wilkey

    I was familiar with the Chaffetz name for several years but frankly knew little about him. When his name popped up recently as a potential Speaker of the House and he appeared on This Week on Sunday, I decided to Google him. Once I read the Wikipedia account, which laid out the facts you cited above, I had to shake my head in wonderment at the incongruities. The Kitty Dukakis connection amazed me. But you left out the key fact that his mother, who succeeded Kitty, was a Christian Scientist, but Jason considered his religion to be Jewish when he entered BYU on an athletic scholarship. As you correctly note, he converted to Mormonism his senior year at BYU. I was so astounded by his convoluted biography that I emailed a Mormon friend I have known for more than 10 years to get her reaction. I got an automatic response informing me that she was out of town for a week, so I guess I will have to wait. BTW, the fact that he is now Mormon indicates that he takes a fairly liberal approach to immigration since that is the official position of the Mormon Church. The fact that he considered himself Jewish until his senior year at BYU probably contributed as well.

    BTW that is an interesting observation about Huntsman. FWIW here is what Wikipedia says about the Chaffetz-Huntsman connection:

    "In 2004, Chaffetz was the campaign manager for Utah gubernatorial candidate Jon Huntsman. Huntsman won the race, and when he took office in January 2005, Chaffetz became Huntsman's chief of staff.[12] In November 2005, Chaffetz left that position to manage his own company, Maxtera Utah, a corporate communications and marketing company.

    In 2006, Chaffetz was appointed by Huntsman as a trustee for Utah Valley State College.[13] Chaffetz has also served as a member of the Highland City planning commission and as chairman for the Utah National Guard adjutant general review."

    Replies: @tbraton

    I tried to edit the prior message in a timely manner, but once again I was informed (despite plenty of time remaining on the clock) that the time to edit had expired. I was going to add the following:

    “Wikipedia also has the following observation: ‘Despite their different political affiliations, Chaffetz remains close to his half-brother and the Dukakis family.[7] While a student at BYU, Chaffetz was Utah co-chairman of Dukakis’ 1988 presidential campaign. After college, Chaffetz worked about a decade in public relations for a multi-level marketing company, Nu Skin International.[8][9]’ I believe “multi-level marketing” is simply another expression for “Ponzi scheme.” ”

  134. @Mr. Anon
    @tbraton

    "Isn’t there a contradiction between being an Ayn Rand enthusiast and being a career politician?"

    There is (or one would assume ought to be) a contradiciton between actually knowing anything about Ayn Rand or having read one of her tedious books and being an Ayn Rand enthusiast. And yet that does not deter her enthusiasts.

    Replies: @tbraton

    “There is (or one would assume ought to be) a contradiciton between actually knowing anything about Ayn Rand or having read one of her tedious books and being an Ayn Rand enthusiast.”

    That’s why I found so amusing the Wikipedia account about his involvement with Ayn Rand, which I posted in message #72 above. His disavowal of having any connection with Ayn Rand’s thinking is hilarious: “He also called the reports of his adherence to Rand’s views an “urban legend” and stated that he was deeply influenced by his Roman Catholic faith and by Thomas Aquinas.” That’s what makes politicians so unique: their uncanny ability to say the most absurd thing with a straight face without bursting into laughter. I think his statement that “I think Ayn Rand did the best job of anybody to build a moral case of capitalism, and that morality of capitalism is under assault” merely shows that he had never heard of, much less read, any Adam Smith, who was, before he wrote “Wealth of Nations,” considered the work which established him as the “father of modern economics,” a moral philosopher and the author of “The Theory of Moral Sentiments.”

  135. Another Jack Kemp idea was selling public housing tenants the apartments they lived in. Kemp must have never lived a real adult life or the problems with that would be obvious. He went from professional athlete to easy political career in the district where they loved him for being a professional athlete.

    Are people like Kemp and Ryan cynical, greedy and selfish or are they useful idiots is the only question I have about them.

    A sappy Joe Biden commercial is running on cable news today. Biden tells of his father leaving the family home in Pennsylvania to go to Wilmington, DE where there was a job he could get through a relative. He’d send for Mom and the kids soon, Dad promised.

    The trouble with relating that to today is that a lot of poor people won’t move from Pennsylvania to Delaware or any where to get a job. They stay put and get an assortment of government benefits and often move in with older relatives who are getting Social Security.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Hersh


    Another Jack Kemp idea was selling public housing tenants the apartments they lived in.
     
    It wasn't Kemp's idea so much as a successful policy of Margaret Thatcher. The difference is that in the UK public housing was at one point the majority of housing due to massive building after WWII.
  136. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonym


    Are the most generous welfare states in the US are those with the most German and Scandinavian populations?

     

    Of course. Those peoples are saddled with enough guilt not only to create them, but also to refuse to abuse them.

    Replies: @Anonym

    It is interesting then how the current economic migrant crisis mirrors the earlier example set within the USA, and by the same people. Welfare state or free movement of people, pick one.

  137. Boehner was a RINO so you got him to step down. But you don’t like anyone who could conceivably replace him, so he remains in power while you gripe that all of his potential successors are Neocons or cuckservatives.

    Do you actually want to accomplish anything or do you just like whining in the comments sections of right wing web sites?

  138. @Jasper Been
    @Lot

    Thank you Lot for injecting some sanity and reality in this conversation vis a vis Ayn Rand!

    As for Paul Ryan being a "devotee" of hers, he is a damn poor one. Exhibit A is the fact he voted in favor of the Wall Street/bank bailout in 2008.

    I live in WI's 1st District. I wish I had the money to run again him as an immigration/ecomonic patriot moderate Democrat.

    Replies: @Lot

    I live in WI’s 1st District. I wish I had the money to run again him as an immigration/ecomonic patriot moderate Democrat.

    Dave Brat beat the #3 republican in the house as a professor in a third tier college. Don’t sell yourself short, you can do it if he can.

    Much better to challenge him in the primary though. With limited resources, you need to focus on one issue, so make it immigration. You’ll have a positive effect even if you lose. The place to push Ryan’s unpopular position on cutting social security is targeted direct mail.

    The place to start is to see who ran Dave Brat’s campaign and see if they have any advice for you.

    I am concerned that if at least one pro amnesty member doesn’t lose a primary every cycle the House GOP might start feeling secure in caving into the massive pressure the business lobby exerts on every member.

  139. @Hersh
    Another Jack Kemp idea was selling public housing tenants the apartments they lived in. Kemp must have never lived a real adult life or the problems with that would be obvious. He went from professional athlete to easy political career in the district where they loved him for being a professional athlete.

    Are people like Kemp and Ryan cynical, greedy and selfish or are they useful idiots is the only question I have about them.

    A sappy Joe Biden commercial is running on cable news today. Biden tells of his father leaving the family home in Pennsylvania to go to Wilmington, DE where there was a job he could get through a relative. He'd send for Mom and the kids soon, Dad promised.

    The trouble with relating that to today is that a lot of poor people won't move from Pennsylvania to Delaware or any where to get a job. They stay put and get an assortment of government benefits and often move in with older relatives who are getting Social Security.

    Replies: @Lot

    Another Jack Kemp idea was selling public housing tenants the apartments they lived in.

    It wasn’t Kemp’s idea so much as a successful policy of Margaret Thatcher. The difference is that in the UK public housing was at one point the majority of housing due to massive building after WWII.

  140. @Maj. Kong
    @Reg Cæsar

    The complexity and advanced aging in post-industrial societies makes some kind of welfare statism inevitable. We can only choose if it will be done by public or private (LDS) sectors, or if its done at federal (FDR) or state (Coolidge) levels.

    Medicare is the only entitlement program that proportionally benefits GOP voters, and that's the one Paul Ryan wanted to limit. It would be preferable to target Medicaid for illegals instead, by billing the home nation.

    I'm not sure if there is any linkage, but I suspect a link between immigration and inflation, mass immigration has/will lead to fixed income SS declining in value. Much like 1990s Russia.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    “…by billing the home nation.”

    I’m not holding my breath while waiting for those bills to be paid.

  141. @eah
    Ryan has done work on 'entitlement reform':

    Courageous Reforms in Ryan's Entitlements Road Map: Where Is the Democratic Response?

    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    As noted before -- America's Evolving Look: Census Shows White Deaths Outpace Births

    These stark facts are the (usually) unspoken background to elite support for immigration and amnesty. People who prefer someone more 'reliable' on immigration and amnesty must address the above issues.

    Replies: @Chris L, @Harry Baldwin, @Honorary Thief, @MarkinLA, @ben tillman

    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    As noted before — America’s Evolving Look: Census Shows White Deaths Outpace Births

    These stark facts are the (usually) unspoken background to elite support for immigration and amnesty. People who prefer someone more ‘reliable’ on immigration and amnesty must address the above issues.

    I couldn’t disagree more. (1) Old people don’t want immigration. (2) Even if they did, it wouldn’t make the Ponzi scheme sustainable. (3) Even if they did and it did, there’s no reason to think politicians would do what the people wanted.

  142. @iSteveFan
    @Harry Baldwin


    The other important point is that we’re not going to sustain anything by importing millions of immigrants who are a net loss to the national budget rather than a net gain. We’re only going to accelerate our collapse.
     
    Good point and one that the open borders side is never asked to explain. On the other hand I am growing quite tired of our side forever having to defend not wanting mass immigration in light of declining birth rates. We are told immigration is non-negotiable because we are not having enough kids and our social safety nets will fail. Yet they never have to explain how importing millions of net tax consumers is going to fix it.

    It seems fair that if the preservation of the social safety net is an important issue over the the immigration debate, then immigration policy should at least help this issue, not exacerbate it. Yet if they took this issue into consideration, family unification would immediately be tossed and means-testing to determine the potential job prospects of an immigrant would become paramount. This of course would lead to a drastic reduction in immigration. And that is why it is not done. For the main reason of immigration is not to fix the social safety net, but to permanently alter Western demographics.

    Replies: @Jesse, @ben tillman

    Good point and one that the open borders side is never asked to explain. On the other hand I am growing quite tired of our side forever having to defend not wanting mass immigration in light of declining birth rates. We are told immigration is non-negotiable because we are not having enough kids and our social safety nets will fail. Yet they never have to explain how importing millions of net tax consumers is going to fix it.

    You’re right, and there are other questions they won’t answer. Like why should we accept the permanent death of the group in exchange for a few more more years of life for some of the group members. It’s a stupid hedonistic perspective.

  143. @Anonymous
    @meh

    The Case for Getting Rid of Borders—Completely

    No defensible moral framework regards foreigners as less deserving of rights than people born in the right place at the right time.


    Alex (((Tabarok)))

    Replies: @ben tillman

    No defensible moral framework regards foreigners as less deserving of rights than people born in the right place at the right time.

    Alex (((Tabarok)))

    Even his thesis is a lie. The point isn’ that foreigners don’t have rights; it’s that they don’t have non-rights like the “right” to commit aggression. They don’t have the right to take/use/enjoy what the natives have produced.

  144. @Harry Baldwin
    @eah

    The big three federal entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are vital to seniors and the poor, but they are also unsustainable in their current forms.

    Of course they're unsustainable--the unsustainability is built in to them. They're Ponzi schemes, and every Ponzi scheme is unsustainable.

    The other important point is that we're not going to sustain anything by importing millions of immigrants who are a net loss to the national budget rather than a net gain. We're only going to accelerate our collapse.

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Jesse, @The Anti-Gnostic, @anonymous, @Reg Cæsar

    …we’re not going to sustain anything by importing millions of immigrants who are a net loss to the national budget rather than a net gain.

    Right outta vaudeville: “I lost money on each one, but made it up in volume!”

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