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From the New York Times news section:
Parole Board Urges Release of Sirhan Sirhan, Robert F. Kennedy’s Assassin
Gov. Gavin Newsom, who is campaigning to win a recall election in California, can choose to uphold or reject the recommendation, which would free Mr. Sirhan after more than five decades.
By Nicholas Bogel-Burroughs
Aug. 27, 2021
Updated 7:05 p.m. ETCalifornia parole commissioners recommended on Friday that Sirhan B. Sirhan should be freed on parole after spending more than 50 years in prison for assassinating Robert F. Kennedy during his campaign for president.
The recommendation from the two commissioners does not necessarily mean Mr. Sirhan, 77, will walk free, but it most likely puts his fate in the hands of Gov. Gavin Newsom, a Democrat facing a recall election that will determine his political future. A spokeswoman for Mr. Newsom declined to say whether he would approve the recommendation, only that he would consider the case after it is reviewed by the parole board’s lawyers. …
The decision to grant parole will first be reviewed by the legal division of the Board of Parole Hearings, a process that can take up to about four months. If the lawyers find an error, they can send the case to the full slate of commissioners to review.
If not, then the case will be sent to the governor, who has 30 days to review it. The governor, who has said that Robert F. Kennedy was his hero, can either approve the recommendation, send it back to the parole board, reverse the recommendation or take no action and let it go into effect.
In several instances, Mr. Newsom has denied parole to people whom the parole board has urged him to release, including two followers of the notorious cult leader Charles Manson, most recently in June.
That can take up to four months, so it sounds like Newsom is stalling until after the election. Perhaps some crack reporter could ask the Governor about Sirhan?
The parole hearing was the 16th time Mr. Sirhan had faced parole board commissioners, but it was the first time no prosecutor showed up to argue for his continued imprisonment. George Gascón, the progressive and divisive Los Angeles County district attorney who was elected last year, has made it a policy for prosecutors not to attend parole hearings, saying the parole board has all the facts it needs to make an informed decision.
At the hearing, which was conducted virtually because of the coronavirus pandemic, Mr. Sirhan said he had little memory of the assassination itself, but he said he “must have” brought the gun to the scene. …
Mr. Sirhan, who is Palestinian and was born in Jerusalem, said in a television interview from prison in 1989 that he had killed Kennedy because he felt betrayed by the senator’s proposal during the campaign to send 50 military planes to Israel. …
Many of the questions at the hearing focused on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and Mr. Sirhan at one point began crying when he spoke about refugees suffering in the Middle East.
“Whatever I would want to do in the future, it would be towards resolving that peacefully,” he said, but he also added that he wanted to “disengage” from the conflict because he was too old.
An odd coalition has urged prison officials to release Mr. Sirhan over the years, including those who say Mr. Sirhan has served his time and others who believe he is not the real assassin.
The NYT is much less enthusiastic about RFK assassination conspiracy theorizing than the Washington Post.
Though several investigations have determined that Mr. Sirhan was the lone gunman, and Mr. Sirhan has said the same, some have pursued a conspiracy theory that claims there was a different killer, citing what many say was a sloppy police investigation and varying theories about how many shots were fired and what the ballistic evidence shows.
Two of Robert F. Kennedy’s children have said they support another investigation, including Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who has become a prominent promoter of misleading information about vaccines. He has said he thinks Mr. Sirhan is innocent.
Paul Schrade, a labor organizer who worked on Kennedy’s campaign in 1968 and was one of the several bystanders shot during the assassination, recorded a video that was played for the parole commissioners on Friday, urging Mr. Sirhan’s release based on the theory that he is innocent.
I have to say that this is just about the Worst.Conspiracy.Theory.Ever.
I mean, it’s by no means impossible that Sirhan managed to miss RFK while shooting all those other people right next to RFK, and perhaps RFK was actually fatally shot by, say, the security guard standing behind him while trying to shoot Sirhan to stop him from shooting.
But … so what?
If the latter is true, Sirhan is the textbook case of felony murder: you go to the candidate’s victory party and start blasting away at him and the candidate accidentally gets shot by a panicked guard who is trying to shoot you to make you stop. You are not innocent just because you are a bad shot. You are guilty.
This still might be interesting if it could be tied into a demonically sophisticated conspiracy theory involving a Second Gunman.
But if you were an expert CIA operative drawing up the Plan for Sirhan to create a diversion, wouldn’t you have your crack marksman shoot RFK from further away, where nobody is looking, not closer to the Man of the Hour and Center of Attention?
Furthermore, what trained assassin would volunteer for the job of standing right behind the candidate while Sirhan blasts away in his direction? Six people were struck that night; the Second Gunman easily could have been one of them.
A lot of RFK theorizing seems like a way to avoid the bland, very American story of a stupid Panglossian immigration system importing a family of excitable people from the other side of the world, boy grows up and shoots pol for taking opposite side in his ancient tribal quarrel.
— RejuvenationStation (@St1Station) August 27, 2021
Update: Here’s investigative reporter Dan E. Moldea’s account of how he got a big advance from Norton to write a book proving that there was a Second Gunman, only to decide at the end of years of research that the security guard never fired his gun and that Sirhan was the only gunman and wasn’t in an MK-Ultra fog either.
I fail to see how this would influence the recall vote with the possible exception of depressing the turnout of a very small number of liberals who will be upset if Newsom elects to keep a POC in prison for killing a white man. What would RFK’s name recognition be among California voters today, 50? Maybe 55%?
Perhaps some crack reporter could ask the Governor about Sirhan?
Don’t worry, Steve. The Jews won’t let Sirhan go free.
You heard it here first.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who has become a prominent promoter of misleading information about vaccines.
Is he still allowed on Twitter and Facebook?
Just another indication of how far this country has fallen. He shouldn’t even be up for parole. He should have been executed, the same as all convicted murderers should be executed. Death is the only restitution a murderer can provide.
I have a conspiracy theory that I’d like to share: In what is perhaps the most informed internet populace (the UR commentariat) when it comes to RFK assassination theories, you have dropped this entry with stirring the pot very much in mind.
Unleash the loquaciousness!
I suppose deportation is out of the question.
People get understandably confused in these horrific situations.
Just yesterday it was reported by a Pentagon spokesman that there had been two suicide bombers in Afghanistan, but the Pentagon, after further reviewing military intelligence, has now reduced the number of bombers by one.
Two, one, whatever, anyway a very small number, that is the point the Pentagon is trying to get across. Perhaps one suicide bomber was cut in half, giving the impression that there were two.
Joe Biden is reported to have said that the US will retaliate against the attack in Kabul, confirming that the bombings were carried out by ISKP. (That was quick, wasn’t it, considering how long it has taken to figure out where Covid-19 came from. Maybe the ISKP emailed the White House to claim responsibility.)
“We will hunt you down and make you pay. I will defend our interests and our people with every measure at my command. You think that I am an impotent dotard, but Joe and Jill Biden will get the job done.” (The last sentence has been withheld from the Reuters report.)
No doubt the bomber will be sentenced to death posthumously. Or perhaps the Pentagon will locate his (her?) family and send a drone round to their house with the bill.
Perhaps the Pentagon will also locate other future suicide bombers and send them invoices to their PayPal accounts.
In fact, maybe it would be a good idea to temporarily invade Afghanistan and ask the Taliban to step aside while the US takes care of the ISKP. What could possibly go wrong? The population of Afghanistan will probably welcome back our boys and girls and festoon them with wreathes of poppies.
Barnard, just say Sirhan killed Emmett Till.
If the idiot children of the slain father can’t even be bothered to submit a statement in opposition, I can’t even begin to imagine how much farther this country is gone than I thought.
A hero to Jew-haters everywhere including those in the iSteve commentariat
Why does anybody care? He’s an old man. Is he going to do it again? True, there’s an ample supply of Kennedys, but for that very reason (among others) — who cares?
The Kennedy clan is big and rich. Let Sirhan out and let the family take him the rest of the way.
They can hire professionals who can make it look like an accident.
I don’t follow conspiracy theories, but I recall reading a very convincing analysis years ago which concluded that Sirhan had actually not fired the fatal shot that killed Kennedy, and that it was actually an accidental hit from a security guard; RFK was essentially killed in a crossfire.
But yeah, Steve’s right, that doesn’t absolve Sirhan in any meaningful way. I’ve never heard a plausible argument that he wasn’t responsible, even if he didn’t fire the fatal bullet.
“This still might be interesting if it could be tied into a demonically sophisticated conspiracy theory involving a Second Gunman.”
Hold it, hold it. Which Kennedy assassination are you referring to? RFK or JFK? Because this can easily fit into JFK’s assassination. Lee Harvey Oswald was found at the scene of the crime, with a gun, etc etc. Whether or not he succeeded or failed to successfully assassinate JFK, or was a bad shot and a second gunman did the work, is immaterial at this point. The fact is that he was guilty of assassinating the President of the United States, as history (per the Warren Commission determined) has determined for nearly 60 yrs now.
Well if there’s hope for Sirhan Sirhan obtaining parole, perhaps Mark David Chapman will obtain his parole as well.
sirhan is a palestinian.
therefore steve hates him.
🐴💩. How fitting:
“Occupation Stable boy”
They came in 1956, under the old immigration laws. Sirhan has lived in California longer than Steve has been alive.
You know, maybe there was a plot to do this deliberately to put Newsom really on the spot. He’d enrage all the old Kennedy liberal Democrats by doing this if he let Sirhan out. The timing is remarkable. Right before the recall?
Isn’t it interesting that two prominent white male liberals are being ousted by their own party right now? First Cuomo and then Newsom. It sounds a lot like ‘friends of Kamala’ are trying to clear the decks for her in 2024 by destroying her potential primary opponents. Kamala has ties to people in the justice system in California since she used to work there.
Or maybe, like the Jordanians, Syrians, Egyptians, and Saudis, he doesn’t want them around. Would you? Would anybody? Similar to our own blacks, they’re not worth the energy to hate.
Also, your rejection of the upper case suggests a Semitic origin.
Part of me thought this was an elaborate Newsom-Gascon plot to punish RFK Jr. for being a loud anti-vaxxer, but then I read that Junior actually agreed Sirhan should be paroled.
Sounds like the idiot children are almost advocating for his release.
There’s a lot of ruin in a nation, but I didn’t know there was that much.
George Gascón, the progressive ..
Ultra-leftist, communist lawyers are progressives. Trump supporters are WN’s.
[Gruesome] would consider the case after it is reviewed by the parole board’s lawyers.
Too many lawyers.
Let him out and deport/restrict him to DC.
I guess they really want Dementia Joe gone!
The guy has served 50 years already. He is said to have consistently denied any memory of the shooting. He has been found to be highly suggestible. He had an eight shooter, yet at least 12 shots were fired. Thane Cesar was highly suspect. The deep state definitely didn’t want a President Bobby. Ask Laurent Guyenot, he will tell you.
It’s 2021, Derek Chauvin is in jail and Michael Byrd was exonerated. Nothing makes sense. Let it go.
Actually it isn’t. Sirhan is not a US citizen.
Well, ot but The Spiker in trouble for being a truther. So,the WTC WAS taken down by a pack of lice covered cave dwelling Sunday school dropouts?
Man,our government really is incompetent.
But in other news, Michael Leroy Byrd, the murderer of Ashli Babbitt, has given Ian interview and called himself a hero. And the Capitol Police have cleared him of any wrongdoing.
Easy way to tell if they really think Byrd is innocent: do they ever return him to duty, or do they pay him to go away?
My guess is that the innocent hero police officer never comes back to work and they pay him to go away. Nancy Pelosi may be perfectly fine with Babbitt’s murder, but she doesn’t want the guy who murdered her to be anywhere near her.
He was MK-Ultra’d, same as Oswald.
Madness is like gravity, all you need is a little push.
He was defending his people and homeland from Jewish invasion.
I think the “idiot” children have exhaustively researched their father’s death and do not feel Sirhan Sirhan fired the fatal shots. The family of Martin Luther King came to the same conclusion about his death too. I hear there’s talk about disputing the official explanation on JFK and 9/11 as well. Idiots everywhere, yet not a drop of transparency to be found.
Uh, Kennedy had just promised to send 50 fighter planes to Zionist Jews for their war on Gentiles in Palestine. Who was the real aggressor here? Sirhan …. or Kennedy?
What if Newsom said, “Have the legal review on my desk in a week. Can’t do it that quick? Well, do your best. By the way, I’m thinking of opening a a branch office of your office in Mono County and am going to need to staff that.”
Then Newsom does a cursory skim of the review and cancels the Sirhan release before too many mail-in ballots can be sent in.
What would the effect of that be?
Conservatives voting less? Progressives voting more? Pro-Newsom switches at the margins.
Precisely. But by the same token, a cop who pins somebody to the ground until he expires is not innocent just because the guy is also having a drug-induced cardiac arrest at the time. However, that implication of the law does not seem to be as popular around here.
FAMILY BACKGROUND AND BIOGRAPHY OF SIRHAN SIRHAN FROM AGE FOUR TO JUNE 5 1968.
The Sirhans were not descendants of the S. Arab Muslim invaders of 650AD. They were Christians Greek Orthodox. Descendants of the pre Arab invasion ancient non Jewish Palestinians. The family birth marriage and death records in the church went back centuries in Jerusalem.
Family property ownership property tax census and other secular records went back centuries. The Turks who occupied Jerusalem for 800 years were meticulous record keepers, especially of the non Muslim prosperous classes who paid all the taxes. Muslims being exempt from taxes in all Muslim occupied territories and countries.
Sirhan’s father was hired by the City Of Jerusalem during the last days of the Turkish occupation. The Sirhan family owned, not rented a 10 room house. The mothers dowry was a couple farms. The farms were rented and the tenants paid the rent to the Sirhans.
So the family was financially comfortable. When the British Mandate went into effect in 1923, the father, like all the other City employees kept his job.
Then WW2 ended. One of the 8 children, a son, was murdered in a Jewish terrorist bombing. Bombs set off in late afternoon at a crowded intersection.
1948. Zionists bribed enough S American diplomats at the United Nations for a bare majority UN vote to recognize the Zionist occupation and the name Israel instead of Palestine.
Father was immediately fired no pension of course. Zionist terrorist thugs had already seized the farms. And driven out the tenants. And replaced the legal tenants with Jewish squatters.
Sirhan Sirhan was 4 years old. A squad of well armed Jewish thugs invested the home and ordered the family to leave with just what they could carry in their hands. No cars trucks dollies or wheelbarrows allowed. Sirhan had to leave his favorite toy. Not a rocking horse but a rocking tiger. Soo cool.
The family found refuge in a Greek Orthodox pilgrimage hostel. I know the MEN OF UNZ are unfamiliar with housekeeping and families. But think about it 7 kids mostly boys from age 4 on up in a pilgrims hostel. From a nice 10 room house. How’d you like that?
The Greek Orthodox Church eventually relocates the family to Pasadena Ca near Los Angeles. The boys enrolled in school graduates and went to work. Mrs Sirhan worked as a teachers aide in a Greek Orthodox school.
Sirhan, like other refugees resented the Jews who confiscated his family property including his rocking tiger. He graduated from high school and went to Pasadena city college. Where he had a Jewish chauvinist Zionist teacher. Like all the leftist commie college teachers, the teacher inserted his pro Israel anti everybody else into his lectures. Sirhan smoldered and became more anti Zionist.
Sirhan quit Pasadena CC and started working including as a horse groom.
Sirhan lived in one of the 3 USA headquarters of Zionism. The others being New York and Chicago. He appears to have been unaware of the activities of Zionist organizations such as ADL AJC AZC and the hundreds of other Israeli front groups operating in the USA.
Then January 1968 the primaries began for the presidential election in November. The Kennedy circus arrived in California for the June primary. Sirhan, like most people followed the news. One couldn’t turn on radio or TV without a Kennedy commercial. Mostly showing race traitor Robert Kennedy slobbering over some black or Hispanic activist.
Then race traitor Robert made a rousing speech to a Jewish audience promising to send 50 American Air Force fighter planes to Israel. Perhaps to replace the planes that were shot up during the Jewish attack on the U.S.S. Liberty the year before. I don’t know.
Sirhan learned of the speech and realized it wasn’t just the Israelis confiscating Palestinian property and genociding Palestinian. It was done with the help of the American government.
And Robert Kennedy promised even more help to the Israelis.
The Kennedy circus came to Los Angeles for primary voting day. The humongous Kennedy publicity machine broadcasted the come one come all party June 5 at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles.
Sirhan went to the party with a gun. He followed the Kennedy entourage into the hotel kitchen. Someone, perhaps an elf, Mordred, Sauron, or Tinkerbell shot Kennedy in that hotel kitchen.
Sirhan Sirhan, not Thane Cesear or anyone else was arrested within minutes and convicted of killing Robert Kennedy. Sirhan also claimed he shot and killed Kennedy then and in interviews for years afterwards.
“ Yes I killed Kennedy because he promised to send 50 war planes to Israel to kill Palestinians “
And good for him to try to defend his people from 50 more American fighter plans being sent to Israel to kill the native indigenous Palestinians.
So why was he in our country? And not in Jordan, which still included the West Bank and East Jerusalem once he reached adulthood?
And where are Jews supposed to live without being invaders?
The old Kennedy worshippers are average 90 and commenting from nursing homes. It’s 2021, not January 1961 when Jack Kennedy was crowned King of the dam fool idiot baby boomers who believed the Kennedy fairy tale.
Mr. Sailer, you obviously haven’t seen the Mission Impossible movies. Tom Cruise and his team could shoot RFK from behind, amidst machine gun fire from all directions, while hanging upside down from a rope extended from the ceiling of the hotel kitchen, without ever being seen. Standard CIA stuff, really.
A lot of people were saying Derek Chauvin deserved the death penalty. If the political climate had shifted even more dramatically, he might well have been sentenced to death. Others are still saying that Kyle Rittenhouse should be executed. These are great reminders of why I staunchly oppose the death penalty. The government should never be given the right to kill its citizens–legally or extra judiciously. Power corrupts, and political power corrupts politically.
Or maybe he just doesn’t like murderers? Can’t say i’m a big fan.
Cool. He’s overstayed his welcome here. He can go back to Jerusalem.
Perfectly fine for him to think of himself that way. But that does not alter the situation, from the perspective of American justice. We don’t want foreigners bringing their quarrels here. And those that do, should swing. (Unfortunately denied in this case.)
If it’s a reminder to American politicians to both
a) not be involved in foreigners quarrels
and
b) not bring foreigners over here
… i’m fine with that as well.
But the bottom line remains–for us he’s just another murdering POS. Should have faced the drop. But since that didn’t happen, should rot in prison.
Letting Sirhan out would be taking a more liberal European approach to punishment for murder, and that might be appealing to Newsome. Even Anders Breivik – who killed 77 people (many of them kids) and gave Nazi salutes during his trial – was only given a possible (min.) 21 year sentence. A couple of Russian cannibal killers were given a dozen years each a while back.
We don’t want foreigners bringing their quarrels here. And those that do, should swing.
That’s a shockingly anti-semitic statement.
I support his release.
Requiring a man to remain buried alive for a crime he committed decades ago is ghoulish.
I do not oppose the death penalty.
I am not a cheerleader for it but I am okay with it.
But there is no reason any crime should be punished by more than 35 years in prison.
35 years is a long fucking time to spend buried alive.
Nobody is in any way the same person he was 35 years prior. And certainly not if he spent those 35 years in a prison cell.
Crime and Punishment is a complicated thing.
I 100% support the penalty of murder carried out on Adolf Eichmann.
ONE HUNDRED PERCENT.
But if for some reason he had been imprisoned rather than murdered I would 100% support him being freed after 35 years.
Keeping an old man in a cage for more than 35 years is a disgrace.
You think a soldier should be allowed to go on social media and criticize the decisions of his superiors…. and remain a soldier?
Are you out of your fucking mind?
I agree with you.
Tough talk behind a screen
JimDandy put it well. Why are you even on this site if you’re so in favor of the state murdering people? Who controls the state and whom is the state targeting?
Is he eligible to apply, considering his invaluable contribution to Nixon’s election victory?
The quality of henchmen isn’t as high in real life as in the movies.
I’d rather die than spend the rest of my life in prison. If faced with that situation, I would carry out the penalty myself if I had the chance.
Don’t you think life in prison is worse than death? Think about it: You will live in an earthly hell until you die anyway, so why not skip the hell part?
Sometimes execution is a humane act.
My wife and I knew a man in Eastern Europe who hanged himself when faced with a long prison sentence for a victimless crime. He made the right decision.
God bless and protect Derek Chauvin. He’s going to need it.
Ah, journalistic standards. Working in a deliberate libel about a man while covering another story entirely.
Journalism- a pack of lies serving State power.
I think we would all be surprised and not surprised if given an in-depth look at the quality of henchmen services. But, let’s first just grant for the sake of argument that the quality of henchmen simply isn’t very high. Well shucks. If only the official media and policing organizations were already deeply corrupt. Or what if a key individual wasn’t already corrupt but could be corrupted through introduction of carrot or stick? We’ll just have to strain ourselves to imagine that kind of reality.
Confronting the real reach and quality of high end henchmen may be terrifying business. Confronting the abundance of low quality henchmen is terrifying in its own right, even if it may not be conducive to supporting the more complex conspiracy theories. Every once in a while you hear about a planned hit gone wrong or set up as a sting operation where the intended hitman was set to be paid a few thousand dollars for the deed. You’re only hearing about the hits in that price range that didn’t go right, and we can look at murder clearance rates in places like Baltimore as supportive of that general idea.
You’ve done a lot of great work and are more courageous than myself and many others, but sometimes you affect this genteel naivete that’s grating for people who have followed you on the path of noticing. Some of the time, this is surely out of necessity. You’ve got a job to do and keep even if ostensibly self employed. It makes sense to employ some reserve so that you can get across the points you care most about or are most interested in. On other important subjects, it feels like getting analysis from a guy who just really likes golf and baseball.
Wish you well, just giving a bit of feedback.
Yeah. But it’s reversible, if the political winds shift. I’d rather be Solzhenitsyn than Babel.
Sirhan Sirhan didn’t bring the war to American shores; the American Kennedy did, when he promised to send the Zionists 50 American fighter jets.
Is it murder when one acts in self-defense or defense of others?
Yes, murdering politicians who stances you disapprove of is murder.
“Is it murder when one acts in self-defense or defense of others?”…..no, but I hope you’re not suggesting Sirhan acted in self defense , that would mean you have a screw loose .
The baby boomers were too young to vote for Kennedy , it was their parents generation with the help of the Chicago mob that elected him and then deified him .
Off-topic:
I had to abandon my lurker ways to inform Mr. Sailer that, finally, people have been noticing the concept of hate crime hoaxes.
A victory of sorts?
https://quillette.com/2021/08/27/the-victim-race/
You think a soldier should be allowed conspire with other soldiers to disobey an order from his commander in chief and remain a soldier ?
Are you out of your fucking mind?
Right .
… maybe, but they are slipping nowadays …
Deport to where? Although he was born in Jerusalem Mandatory Palestine Jerusalem was annexed by Jordan 1950, but then Israel occupied the West Bank. The main stream media seems determined that he is a Jordanian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank
Was killing Heydrich murder?
The answer is still yes. BUT, if you are a political assassin who believes in his cause, you must be prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice for it. Sirhan originally understood this and at first his wish was to plead guilty and be put to death for his crime.
But now that he has had 50+ years to think about it and a bunch of Leftist lawyers whispering in his ear, he can’t even remember whether he was there that night. Maybe someone else killed Kennedy and he dindu nuffin? Welcome to America 2021, where personal responsibility is an outdated notion.
Political murders undermine our system of government. They are not necessarily sedition or insurrection, but have a similar effect. The crime is a attack at the heart of our system of government.
The killing or RFK not only deprived us of a choice in the upcoming election, but had the unknowable side effects of depriving us of future choices.
Irrespective of Mr. Sirhan’s current state, our feelings about RFK’s politics, or the feelings of RFK’s family there can be no forgetting. This was a crime against the country of the first order.
Contrast with the Capital riot in which the only killing was a guard killing a rioter. Which seems closer to an insurrection?
If released he will be lionized in the Arab/Muslim world and not because he is innocent. They know what he did and they admire him for it. A drone strike should be ordered on this living piece of shit, the minute he steps out of the door, if not for justice then “pour encourager les autres”.
Sirhan’s brother was not killed by the Israelis. He was run over by a Jordanian military vehicle that was allegedly swerving to escape Israeli gunfire. Or else maybe the Arab driving it was not a very good driver and didn’t care whether he ran over any civilians.
Look, being a refugee sucks. I know from my family’s own experience. Whatever happened to Sirhan’s family, what happened to my family was 10 times worse. BUT, Sirhan was a little boy when all this happened and had little personal memory of it.
When the tides of history toss you up on a distant shore, it’s not useful to be bitter about your lost rocking horse or olive groves or whatever the hell it was that you lost. Fortune landed Sirhan in Pasadena in the 1950s, complete with a free house. Pasadena in those days (hell, it’s still a pretty nice place) was as close to heaven on earth as anywhere on this planet. America welcomed Sirhan with open arms – he had every opportunity to make a success of himself. He could have become a doctor or a jockey or whatever he pleased (sure he had to put up with living with Jews, but nothing is perfect) but instead he chose to bite the hand that fed him.
I have to say that this is just about the Worst.Conspiracy.Theory.Ever.
They’re gonna keep digging until they strike white. That simple.
I often fantasize that if I were diagnosed with terminal cancer and Mrs Prude had passed on, I would take a gun and rid the world of some scum. Michael Leroy Sh**byrd just made the top of the list.
Lol we just had five years of Vindman. Spare me.
Superiors. As if.
If they want to maintain discipline they’d do well to show proper deference to their own superiors.
They haven’t.
Planting an operative to put a poison in someone’s night time glass of whiskey in a hotel bar would be very easy for any high level organised conspiracy. The death would not be considered suspicious. It would look natural and in their sleep. There would be no investigation. It would make a lot more sense than organising to have someone shot in public and spark endless debate and amateur sleuthing. Anyone who can’t work this out seems pretty silly to me.
No. Complete the pattern. He becomes manservant to Jonathan Pollard at the remunerative new Wall Street gig.
Yes, any “professional” assassination would probably do even better than make it look like an accident. They would make it look innocuous and entirely natural. This would be both easier to conduct and safer from review.
Agreed. Personally, I find more than 20 years imprisonment to be cruel and unusual as almost no one is the same person 20 years later.
I find the argument that more than 20 years is helpful when the criminal continues to present a clear danger, but Sirhan Sirhan is now an old man. I’d release him to make the best of what remains of his life.
It was Nixon that actually did send Phantoms during the ‘73 war. Along with everything else the Israelis demanded. The first oil embargo ensued and we’ve been living in that world ever since.
Same place as Catholics or Buddhists or Eastern Orthodox.
Remain a soldier, no, but he should be given a pension. It’s ridiculous how he’s SOL now but if he had waited three years to say this then he would have gotten 50% of his AD pay for life.
It is good to see you, Romanian. Thank you for the links.
Alex, what is a non sequitur?
Unless one wanted to plant an animus to Palestinians (or alternatively strife between American Jews -> Israelis and Palestinians) as a seed in the public mind. Having one kill (more to the point letting one) the guy Rosey Grier is literally standing behind would be a uniquely potent way of doing so. As Steve says at the time it wasn’t a thing. It soon became one.
As Steve says if you act of this kind of thinking you get in all kinds of weeds. It’s like mental gain of function research.
His brother Teddy turned out to be a huge liberal who spent his Senate career advocating a soft-on-crime policy and abolition of the death penalty.
Plus these two brothers helped metaphorically “murder” America with their push the Immigration Act of 1965, with their litany of lies. “The ethnic makeup of the country will not change… The standards of admission will not be lowered… etc.
I’m sure if Bobby had not been shot he would have turned out to be a big, gigantic flaming liberal (regardless of if whether he won the presidency) just like his brother Teddy.
It would’ve been abolish the death penalty, spring habitual offenders out of jail, etc.
The house was arranged by the Greek Orthodox Church but it wasn’t free. The story about Sirhan’s brother being killed by a Jordanian military vehicle instead of a terrorist bomb is just another Jewish Israeli lie.
The Jewish terrorist bombing that killed Sirhan’s brother happened when Jerusalem and Palestine were still a British colony under British occupation and control. The Jordanian military stayed in Jordan. The British controlled Jerusalem. Kinda sorta controlled Jerusalem as they tried to keep the Zionist terrorists under control.
I know it sucks being a Jew who isn’t a hard left black criminal gay trans Stalin worshiping liberal. I know it’s hard being a Jew who isn’t a communist trans gender activist contributor to BLM. Lunatic fringe hard left Religious ethnic background . But you’re like normal. So it is difficult.
Jews have the dilemma of following all the Jewish fads from 1900 communism, to 1951 Brown vs Topeka to 1968 affirmative action laws to 2020 trans gender and uni sex bathrooms and cutting off from being a Jew
Or embracing normalcy which is a goyim thing.
Be normal and you’ve betrayed American Judaism. Be Jewish and you’re an ally of jews like Susan Rosenberg. She is the black panther weather underground murderer terrorist released from prison by Clinton. Now she runs the finances of BLM. And diverts the hundreds of millions extorted from businesses by BLM to the democrat party.
Because of Brown vs Topeka you spent a fortune on private schools to keep your kids safe from the black savages so beloved by American Jews. You might have sent your kids to private school even if there was not a single black in your local public school district.
Check out the financing of Brown vs Topeka. Mostly AJC. And check out the plaintiff’s attorney’s. Thurgood Marshall might have been the only non Jew.
Prop 209 the California 1996 anti affirmative action referendum. Passed in the November election. 8AM couriers arrived at the state courthouse to file to overthrow the election. Before online filing Otherwise would have filed it online.
I was still a pro White activist at the time. So I made a list of every single lawyer and his her law firm that filed against Prop 209 Plus all the lawyers who filed Friend if the Court Briefs to over throw anti affirmative action Prop 209. Even I, very familiar with radical White hating Jewish lawfare was surprised at the Jewish names of the anti White lawyers against Prop 209. Something like 78 out of 92 anti White lawyers. I didn’t even count names like Becker and Kaufman that could be German or Jewish.
I know you would never be part of a lawsuit to over threw an anti affirmative action referendum. One thing I like about living in Los Angeles . It’s a Jewish neighborhood but Persians. Not brainwashed liberal Jews.
I’ve been around jews all my life. Honest to God. It’s like there’s a microchip in their brains. Jew propaganda central activates it and they all advocate for the same cause at the same time.
Example; jewish cause of homosexuality. First legalize it. Then claim that gay White men are a discriminated against minority deserving of affirmative action. Then gay marriage. Then gays in the military. Then uni sex trans bathrooms. Now gender change surgery paid for by medi caid and the military.
Homosexual trans etc is as much a Jewish cause as Israel is. A list of the 125 largest and wealthiest homosexual advocate non profit (lol)
CEO of executive directors presidents of 103 of those gay organizations were Jews . That was 20 years ago.
From founding of the CPUSA to school bussing to destruction of our great cities to trans gender to anti fa and BLM what horrible destructive thing will American Jews do next?
What was your friend’s victimless crime?
Keeping him in jail is sensible if you are punishing him for the crime of shooting Bobby rather than Teddy.
For this to be true, the killing of RFK by Sirhan Sirhan would have to have an effect on public opinion which would have an effect on public policy that would outweigh the vastly increased risk of the undertaking being discovered and the absolute disaster for the supposed conspirators that would ensue if this happened.
There would also have to be no easier, less risky and less murderous way to influence public policy in this manner.
Both are extremely improbable and there’s no reason whatsoever to believe that either were true.
This is the problem of the amateur sleuthing rabbit hole type thinking. It can only not look ridiculously narrow and biased when you are actually stuck in it.
One thing people not in law enforcement don’t understand about blacks is that they like prison.
Food shelter clothing all their needs are cared for. Don’t even have to do their own laundry. Most favorite activity of blacks is idle chat. Prison is the best place for it. Plus they get to be with all their friends and relatives. Plus it’s a status symbol. Sex? All black men need is a hole, doesn’t matter which one. Alcohol easy to make pruno Just yeast sugar maybe fruit juice stolen from the kitchen Drugs easy to smuggle in. And most of all idle lounging and chatting. Plus intrigue and plotting. Robbing beating and even killing other prisoners.
Really, blacks love prison. It’s as much fun as hanging out on the sidewalk or convenience store parking lot blathering away and harassing people all day. Even better as prison provides food shelter and clothing. Sidewalks and parking lots get cold and rained and snowed on. But prisons have roofs and heat.
I know one of Bobby Kennedy’s children pretty well. While certainly odd, he’s not an idiot.
They are legion, the surviving children of RFK, and I’m guessing they hold a variety of opinions on the matter. So it’s probably hard to issue a unified statement.
A recent news item reports that six of RFK’s children OPPOSE Sirhan’s parole.
“Keeping an old man in a cage for more than 35 years is a disgrace.”
Right. Prompt execution would be justice, what we have is a disgrace.
Steve cited Moldea’s theory that Cesar didn’t fire his gun at all that night, even though Cesar was standing in the precise location and pointing his gun in the exact direction from which RFK was hit.
Who said so?
The Los Angeles County Coroner, Thomas Noguchi, in his autopsy report on RFK.
Further, an eyewitness in the pantry, CBS News employee, Donald Schulman, told both the LAPD and a local radio station that indeed he saw a security guard fire!
But the LAPD never tested Cesar’s gun, so a definitive answer is impossible.
Incompetence or corruption?
Molders can theorize all he likes, but no honest investigation was done.
After all, it was only the murder of the man who had just become the Democratic Party front runner, and was at least an even money bet to win the White House that fall.
A man who had said privately (but not yet in public), that he would reopen his brother’s murder investigation once he was president.
So Steve, here’s an alternative theory for you:
RFK was murdered to ensure that never happened.
“But now that he has had 50 + years to think about it and a bunch of Leftist lawyers whispering in his ear, he can’t even remember whether he was there that night.”
When the perp says “I don’t remember” it means “I did it.” When taken into custody, Sirhan was proud of killing RFK. He said, “I did it for my country.”
You’re being naive and your math is faulty. Voters born in the 1950s, who are old enough to remember Kennedy’s administration, are only in their 60s. Voters 60+ are still around in large numbers. Older voters show up at the polls more reliably than younger people do. Democrats traditionally have poor turnout among younger Democratic voters. This means that older Democrats have greater pull inside their own party than their numbers would indicate. This is why, despite large minority numbers, it’s older whites who still make the decisions among the Democrats. It was all those old Democratic voters who put a senile old goat like Biden in the White House. Those old whites sure didn’t like Kamala in the primary.
That’s the crucial argument. I’m not going to say it’s true beyond a doubt but it’s there and it is plausible. The CIA had been out of control since long before 1968, right?
“what happened to my family was 10 times worse.” The eternal whine of the Jew . That certainly justifies more than 70 years of genocide . “The Jew cries out as he strikes you.”
“Sirhan was a little boy when all this happened and had little personal memory of it.” You have memories of crimes that didn’t happen .
65 of 77 bystanders in the pantry of the hotel heard no more than 8 shots. The audio analysis done by Harrison demonstrated 7 clear shots with the final shot obscured by shouting. Trained acoustic engineer Phillip Harrison had worked on over 1,000 cases. Steve Barber also analyzed the recording and concurred with Harrison. Michael O’Dell , a leading expert on acoustic evidence, concluded there were 7 gunshots and an eighth obscured by noise.
There is far more evidence that only 8 shots were fired and this includes the majority of those present and the audio analysis performed by 3 experts.
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/36915
I think that’s irrelevant to my point, and I suspect you may be looking for something to express an opinion about. Furthermore, he was not a “friend,” but a somewhat distant relative whom my wife knew and heard the news about. The only time I met him was at our wedding 20 years ago. Can you tell I’m distancing myself from the subject?
Already advanced in age, with grandchildren, he was facing years of Romanian prison for something that had no victims and was a personal matter with which the state had no business. We’ve had similar draconian sentences here in America for similar “crimes,” and I don’t care to argue about it. He should be alive and free.
Thats Quillette, though.
Steve,
More late breaking Emmett Till news:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/09/barn-emmett-till-murder/619493/
But no one is going to notice the article because the author is a white male with bad hair.
Again we can learn two things from this: 1st Here was a case of diversity, that was definitely not a strength. 2nd Third worlders should stay in the third world.
Basically, this is exactly the kind of career officer we have needed for many years. Social media aside, one of the jobs of commissioned US officers is to question really bad decisions and policies. It doesn’t happen nearly as often as it should. If there were a lot more officers like this one, we could’ve exited Afghanistan a long time ago.
I always like to throw out an anecdote from”1776″ by David McCullough. George Washington worried that the revolution would end before it began because much of his army were on one year enlistment. Yet, a huge number signed up again. Despite some of them marching through the Pennsylvania and New Jersey winters without even having shoes! Why? They had a real cause. Kind of like the Taliban. What was the great cause that American GIs were fighting for in Afghanistan? Iraq?
“Sir” Sirhan
Said Sirhan Sirhan to Sir Mick
Jagger: “It gets on my wick
that when people address
me as ‘Sir’, I must guess
if it’s deference or overmuch cheek!”
‘Cool. He’s overstayed his welcome here. He can go back to Jerusalem.’
No, he can’t. He’s Palestinian.
You should be a politician. You’re using a lot of words to dance around the subject and not give a straight answer. Just come out with it – “statutory rape” or whatever. A one or two word answer is all that is called for.
That’s funny. I’m the same person I was 20 years ago. (Some) of my clothes even still fit. I don’t feel like the me of 20 years ago was a different person. Then again I didn’t kill someone and now want to distance myself from my crimes.
The family should just volunteer Ted Kennedy Jr. to pick him up on release day. I’m sure the route home passes over water at some point.
Breivik’s sentence was the harshest on the books. It can be extended indefinitely.
James Fields got life without parole plus 419 years. I guess what he did was worse than shooting RFK.
The Palestinian impulse for killing third parties to their disputes is precisely why they need to be deported en masse to another universe or some equivalent.
COVID “INTERVENTIONS”
__________________________
Steve, you were the first covid-concernee to question your own tribe.
The world can use your updated thoughts.
I have never obeyed the lockdowns or masking demands but I will soon succumb to taking an unnecessary vax because if you do not take the vax you get illegally punished by being disallowed to go to this museum or get on that plane.
Despite all if their lies about how ‘only a wacko would think the vax wasn’t 100% safe’ it is not 100% safe.
And therefore anyone who already has covid or has a reason to believe that he personally is better off risking covid than the vaccine should not be “induced” to take it.
Yet here we are.
Do you have anything to say about it?
Sure, most people are probably better off getting the vaccines than not (though this is no where near certain yet), but punitive measures against those who are unconvinced are as serious an attack on our liberties as anything that’s coming down the pike.
And this doesn’t even take into account the now PROVEN inefficacy of masking to stop the spread of covid (though it may reduce the spread of various colds? But enforcement at what social and Human cost?!), or the downunder lockdowns in their matriarchal nightmares, etc.
Hinckley, Squeaky and now Sirhan: shitlibs love releasing assassins (and would-be assassins) for some reason.
Perhaps the man who committed the murder SHOULD have been murdered by the state in punishment.
But the ancient bag of bones called Sirhan Sirhan is not in any way the same man who committed the murder, except in the apathetic minds of people to whom he’s just a rrpeated collection of letters anyway.
Keeping that old man locked up is evil.
It’s a thing. The Boston bombing Tsarnaev bros. come to mind: had chicks and sports acclaim, but had other interests beyond living a good life.
Lesser examples abound. Expecting gratitude is a common mistake.
“the most informed internet populace (the UR commentariat)”
Second only to The Root commentariat.
Eh. The argument “yeah it’s nice but would be really nasty if everything goes tits up” can be applied to anything. Better not have police, America might turn communist and then those same police will be sending us to Syb…Alaska!
The thing is, when the moment comes that white people are hated so much that we’d get the death penalty for basically anything, having it be illegal wouldn’t make much of a difference, they’d find a way.
Anything is wonderful as long as the conditions exist for it to be wonderful. Dictatorships are nice as long as the dictator is on your side, not so much when he’s not.
“his [Sirhan’s] invaluable contribution to Nixon’s election victory”
Not a chance in hell Nixon would’ve won the ’68 election if RFK stayed alive. Perhaps the conspiracy theory the old men of UNZ are attempting to purvey — Sirhan greased the toothy Kennedy because he was aflame with anti-Zionist hate — was injected into the bloodstream of this ongoing story by a zealous Zionist author who is aflame with anti-Palestinian hate. Maybe Sirhan was just an overly exuberant supporter of Nixon. What’s funny is this: five years after CIA candidate Nixon was inserted into the White House he was removed by the CIA (in unison with JCS who bugged Nixon’s White House from day one) for conducting non-deep state approved diplomacy with Kissinger. I’m a big fan of Nixon: an incredibly gothic character with a giant head.
It doesn’t matter who fired the fatal shot he was trying to assassinate an American politician if he hadn’t started shooting RK wouldn’t have been shot.
He should have been executed decades ago
Actually, I’ve been told numerous times since adolescence that I should be a lawyer, counsellor, but like those who don’t become doctors because they can’t stand blood and gore, I can’t stand prevarication…
… but I am very good at it, as you can see. Gee, I guess I could have made a lot of money, like you. Instead, I just fell into managing it for other people — for people like you.
(Do not interpret this comment as hostile. I am glad to see you again. You’re not far off the mark, BTW.)
One guy is committing a crime attempting murder the other is legally restraining a resisting suspect using a technique that is both safe and legal. Even the coroner’s report says so.
Falsehood is pernicious and dangerous quit lying to yourself and others just to get a reaction.
Marine.
There’s so many politicians he hasn’t tried to shoot yet. Palestinians have certainly quit their political killing so Sirhan should be fine.
The murders of the Gracchi bros were the beginning of the end of the Roman Republic. I don’t care what the Kennedys believe, politics by murder or mayhem needs to be strongly discouraged. The suppression of speech, the stolen election, the different gov. reactions to last summer and 1/6 encourage it. Still, you take a life and yours is forfeit.
There’s plenty of evidence that Sirhan Sirhan was a patsy.
https://podtail.com/podcast/the-opperman-report/a-lie-too-big-to-fail-the-real-history-of-the-as-2/
https://www.kennedysandking.com/robert-f-kennedy-articles/sirhan-and-the-rfk-assassination-part-i-the-grand-illusion
https://www.kennedysandking.com/robert-f-kennedy-articles/sirhan-and-the-rfk-assassination-part-ii-rubik-s-cube
My poem was inspired by this little gem, written by William Rossa Cole:
https://www.poetrynook.com/poem/mutual-problem
Off Topic.
The vaccines are effective against the Coof Death, so everyone should get vaxxed.
Oh, and a booster shot will be needed every year.
Or, wait, every 5 months.
https://nypost.com/2021/08/27/biden-and-fauci-discuss-covid-19-booster-shots-every-5-months/
If every 5 months is not efficacious, then maybe every 4 months. Maybe every month?
Slightly OT –
In his book Popular Crime, Bill James says the idea that a secret service agent accidentally delivered the fatal shot to JFK was very plausible, and may be the simplest explanation that explains all the evidence.
It’s a murder. Plain and simple.
A rich, political guy’s life is not worth any more than that of a poor, private sector guy (though I could be convinced that the latter’s is worth way more).
A crime against the country. Like treason and counterfeiting. Really.
Undermining the gov — and I don’t care which crappy [school] system you choose — is one’s patriotic duty.
Ignorant remark. The fighter planes were to protect against Egyptian air force which was flying Soviet fighters. Nasser the dictator of Egypt was making threats about throwing the Israelis into the sea and was about to attack Israel which preempted him by a dawn attack on Egyptian airforce bases which wiped out most of his airforce. Israel intelligence had learnt that Egyptian airforce pilots took breakfast at a set time so attacked at that time.
Alden is right about who murdered Sirhan’s older brother. Jordan didn’t take over East Jerusalem, where the Sirhan brother was killed by a zionist terrorist bombing in 19 46 or 47. Jordan took over the West Bank, East Jerusalem and other areas in 1948 long after the jews murdered the brother. Jews rook over other areas.
Sirhan’s brother was killed by a zionist terorrist bombing in 1946 0r 1947. The Jordanian military vehicle is just another jewish lie. And don’t bother posting a wiki citation. Its probably a jewish lie. The bombing was committed by blue eyed Russian immigrants. Not indigenous Palestinian Jews.
These people should have been missionaries. Look at them.
But we have forsaken God. Lord have mercy.
I wouldn’t bet too much on that peacetime part there.
America, Kennedy aren’t third parties to the dispute. They made themselves principals and aggressors through their collaboration with the Zionists.
“Sirhan Sirhan is now an old man.”
And innocent of the crime. He was an unstable young man of colour stalked and bagged by the groomer squad — contractors, mostly former law enforcement — to play the role of sacrificial lamb. His Palestinian origin might indicate Israeli involvement, particularly using its assets in the American media to launder their propaganda. And back then if there was Israeli domestic activity James Jesus Angleton was assisting it. Langley had every reason to kill RFK. When thinking about the RFK killing one must integrate it into the 1963 assassination of his brother. The two political murders are inextricably linked. In my view, what makes this story even more compelling is the involvement of the ultra-fascinating Angleton. The man’s life is essential to understating the dark side of American Empire.
Who knew there so many Sirhan Sirhan fans here?
If supporting the sale of weapons to allies involved in nasty conflicts is justification for murder, I’d like to know which politician isn’t eligible for a righteous kill by some angry visitor.
The Judeo-Christians have certainly blessed the world with beautiful music.
I wonder if Sirhan (Sirhan)’s mother got beaten up by his dad whenever she shouted “Sirhan, get your lazy ass to the dining table”.
Pollard would wholeheartedly agree with you. The survivors of The U.S.S. Liberty? Probably not so much.
you take a life and yours is forfeit.
Ok, then, if you say so.
“As in Deir Yassin, so everywhere.”
Sure, and there are other acoustic analysis experts who concluded that there were more than eight shots. But that’s inconvenient for you, I guess?
The others here are correct in saying that Sirhan would be guilty of murder even if Kennedy wasn’t killed by his gun. If Sirhan was aware of what he was doing and capable of understanding it at the time he did it. That is the question.
Third parties? Compared to the Jews?
The propaganda Jews have conducted against Gentiles–and specifically all their slanders against the Americans who actually built America, made it tremendously peaceful and prosperous and, oh yeah, actually defeated the Nazis!–and the level of destruction engendered absolute dwarfs even all the nasty old-school bloody stuff from the Arab crowd.
The Arabs just dole out retail pain and suffering. The Jews have sought–largely successfully–to balkanize and destroy what was once America–a nation. Wholesale destruction. (Not to mention all the destruction wrought by riling up and setting loose their black proxies.)
If you look up “ingratitude” in the dictionary it should come with a picture of American Jews.
The line for people who deserve deportation is a long one.
Could the Arabs and Jews please take their dispute outside.
And stay there!
But how many of those people were shot by Sirhan Sirhan?
His gun could hold 8 rounds.
Kennedy was shot 3 times. There were also another 5 people shot. Even if each of those people were only shot with one bullet each, it’s weird that Sirhan Sirhan would be such a poor shot as to land only 3/8ths of his rounds on target, yet also have the other 5/8ths of the rounds hit people, rather than miss people at least once.
It’s very improbable that Sirhan Sirhan was the only person who fired a gun.
Why does this only apply to crimes and not to other things? Let’s say I would like to take away your house. Suppose I say to you, “Sure, a fellow with your name bought this house 30 years ago, but you’re not in any way the same man as the man who bought this house, so get out. Do you buy that in any way, shape or form?
Why was Israel our ally in ‘68? They had just attacked the USS Liberty off the coast of Egypt in June of ‘67. They murdered 34 Americans and wounded 171 more. Isis kills 13 Americans and we immediately retaliate with drone strikes. Israel killed far more and RFK offers to send them state of the art aircraft so they could do a better job next time. Some ally.
Maybe it was mistaken identity, you know, like the USS Liberty?
Uh, Oswald was found in a movie theater 45 minutes after the shooting without the rifle which killed Kennedy (he did have a handgun). Not that I doubt that he did it.
“As long as there are people who think I didn’t do it, I’ll never admit anything.” -Sirhan Sirhan
Michael McCowan, who acted as a defense investigator for the Sirhan trial defense team, produced a manuscript of notes he made with Sirhan present. The historically important document shows, clearly and vividly, in Sirhan’s own hand, that he did in fact remember the events of June 4-5, 1968.
McCowan had reconstructed the crime with Sirhan. In the midst of their conversation, McCowan said, Sirhan explained the moment when his eyes met Kennedy’s just before he shot him. Shocked by what Sirhan had just admitted, McCowan asked, “Then why, Sirhan, didn’t you shoot him between the eyes”? With no hesitation and no apparent remorse, Sirhan replied, “Because that son of a bitch turned his head at the last second.”
Vincent DiPierro, a waiter at the Ambassador Hotel, was standing five feet behind the senator in the pantry and had an unobstructed view of the shooting. As DiPierro told The Washington Post in 1974, that Sirhan was standing about three feet in front, and slightly to the right, of Kennedy. But a moment before Sirhan whipped out his handgun, Kennedy turned to his left to greet some busboys. As Sirhan began firing, he lunged forward, bringing the muzzle of his revolver to within inches of Kennedy’s head. “It would be impossible for there to be a second gun,” Di Pierro said, “I saw the first shot. Kennedy fell at my feet. His blood splattered on me. I had a clear view of Kennedy and Sirhan.”……”Sirhan was three feet away but the muzzle of the gun in his outstretched arm couldn’t be more than 3 to 5 inches away from his head.” – Vincent DiPierro.
http://www.crimemagazine.com/robert-kennedy-assassination-%E2%80%93-final-truth
I think Little Trump and Cernovich are kind of missing Scheller’s point (not that those morons missing someone’s point is notable). His critique of the generals is that they were not ready to throw their careers’ away to call out their superiors when doing that was morally obligatory. He protests this by calling out his superiors, thereby throwing away his career. The protest really doesn’t work properly if he doesn’t lose his job.
It’s a bit like seppuku, except, you know, with fewer intestines.
You’re supposed to marvel at the cowardice of the generals, not rage at the (correctly meted out) punishment of Scheller.
Are you deliberately trolling with the references to how Zionists took Palestinian homes?
A man who had said privately (but not yet in public), that he would reopen his brother’s murder investigation once he was president.
That, as I recall, is the possible motive most used to explain why “they” killed him: Can’t let the brother live to avenge JFK’s murder–or the son.
But then murder is cruel and–in a civilized nation–unusual too. And we’d like to keep it that way.
But hey, i agree with you. If any long serving convict–or let’s be generous, short serving as well–would like to opt for a quick execution, i’m on board.
~~
Seriously, anyone who blathers on about murderers in prison and “cruelty” and “poor old man”, has no business around any public policy issue. This is yet another area where the emotionalists just completely miss the point.
And this is another area–like borders–that begs for “separate nations”. There are people who “get” the point of “rule of law”, and those who don’t. Just like with “borders”. And probably pretty much the same people.
I don’t give a shit about criminals. (Actual criminals, not the people the super-state is now locking up for “hate” and various political crimes.) Criminals?–kill ’em, expel ’em, whatever. Creeps like this Floyd POS should never have even been out walking the streets. And I care–to some extent–about their victims.
But mostly, i care about the rights of the majority. Their right to live productive lives according to their norms and values and not be victimized by criminal scum. Their rights are the only rights that matter. People who think they have the right to trample on the majority’s rights–get lost.
State of Israel must have accepted that reasoning or something close to it otherwise sirhan’s family home would not have been violently evicted from their home and had their property stolen from them.
Meanwhile the current occupants squwak ceaselessly about “grandmama’s Klimt or was it three Klimt’s- better make it four Klimts to be safe. grandmama’s four klimts 2 gaugains and a Picasso. four Klimts, 2 Gauguins, a Picasso and 2 Braques. Grandmama always loved her 3 Braques.”
That zoomed by me Des. You’ll have to explain.
I just think, “missionaries”? hell no! Instead of being on the other side of the world soldiering or missioning, this–nice looking young man–should have been home, getting married to his girlfriend, Jessica, doing starting some useful productive trade and starting a family.
White people need to set down the white man’s burden and look after ourselves.
His Palestinian origin might indicate Israeli involvement, particularly using its assets in the American media to launder their propaganda.
Except there was hardly any media linkage of Sirhan to the Palestinian cause. Sirhan brought it up in a 1989 interview and I never heard about it until about 1999.
Palestinians started their skyjacking campaign that brought them to world attention about six weeks after RFK was murdered, so very few Americans at the time made the mental linkage between Sirhan and Palestine. He was usually described in the press as “Jordanian.”
Right.
I’d never heard that theory until Bill James’ book. You can understand it’s lack of appeal: Accidents Happen (especially when would be assassins are shooting at you) is a really boring conspiracy theory.
The way Saxons took Welsh land and fended off the Norsemen, Danes and Frisians who tried to do the same to them, culminating in the the Great Heathen Army’s assault on Alfred the Great’s Wessex and the Saxon kingdoms that Alfred gradually subsumed into what became England? The way we took Indian land? The way the ancestors of everyone in the world killed the men, took the women as wives and grabbed their land? Spare us the sanctimony. If you were truly concerned about land theft, you’d unass North America and head back to Africa whence our common ancestors emerged.
TwoFourEight, the coastal bookend governors, cuomo and newsom, have done enough damage to their careers to warrant their ousters. The thing is, the MSM didn’t expend a look of ink defending them. Don’t see harris’ star rising.
Yeah, I figured you wouldn’t have the guts to answer. Thanks for confirming that.
This isn’t a compliment.
Off topic:
Steve
Tiny Nicole Gee…USMC…died in Afghanistan two days ago to protect 6’6” Trevor Lawrence’s freedom….
Absolutely right. The boomers weren’t old enough to vote for Kennedy. But they absorbed Kennedy worship from the time they were old enough to read. My parents subscribed to a lot of magazines, including fashion and women’s magazines. I can still remember pictures of the Kennedy women on magazine covers when I was barely old enough to read. I’d say those who were about 20 to 60 when Kennedy was elected president were are the hard core of the Kennedy worshippers.
Kennedy worship is mostly the marvelous Kennedy family’s publicity machine. It’s like the Princess Dianna cult. 25 years after she died a new movie tv show and book still comes out about twice a year.
It is, but what of it? They have interesting articles. Certainly, they might be controlled or tolerated opposition, but they have some of the most daring mainstream content I have seen online, including attacks on transgenderism, on Black Lives Matter and so on.
https://quillette.com/2021/05/28/black-lives-matter-and-the-psychology-of-progressive-fatalism/
Glad to see you as well! I have been following the site, though I felt I had little to add and, in truth, I have not had the same time to reach the comments as I used to. Everything ok with you?
I believe both Oswald and Sirhan did the actually killings, and were the lone assassins, but they were highly unstable people egged on by powerful government agents from various nations. However, the U.S. wasn’t the only government experimenting in brainwashing suggestive dips into doing their dirty work.
Oswald almost certainly was egged on/brainwashed by communist governments. FFS, he defected to the Soviet Union for a while, and then begged the Cuban Embassy in Mexico to let him into Cuba, all the while stumping for Cuba publicly and planning to assassinate major anti-communist figures in the U.S. The guy was a communist nut and, at the end of his life, a true believer in the Cuban version of communism. When the fiercely anti-communist JFK (he was Joe McCarthy’s biggest Senate ally during the 1950s Red Scare) got in, and we had the Berlin Wall pop up, the Bay of Pigs, and the Cuban Missile Crisis, it doesn’t take much to realize Cuba and the Soviets didn’t like this belligerent Kennedy and got a loyal commie nutso to whack him.
My only disagreement would be using the word “mainstream” to describe Quillette, which was basically my original point–the fact that they are writing about fake hate crimes is good, but not particularly surprising or indicative of some media paradigm shift. That’s just my opinion, though. Maybe this shows that the tide is turning.
Let’s discuss the theory that Mrs Kennedy’s second husband Aristotle Onassis killed President Kennedy. Read the book Nemesis that makes exactly that claim. To avoid the trouble of a divorce. Or because as a religious catholic Mrs Kennedy refused to commit the sin of divorce. But agreed to the lesser sin of murder.
Or maybe she spoke about it with a clever sneaky Talmudic discourse trained Jesuit. Who told her; tell Onassis not to kill your husband. Then if he does, your conscience is clear.
2,000 books 2,000 theories each more insane than the last.
Except that we now have proof that the FBI does exactly that – uses plants to get people worked up and then eggs them on to specific terrorist acts for various reasons that aren’t terribly hard at which to guess. Steve might say padding budgets but the people who make the budgets have their own interests…
And we know that various agencies – and not just domestic – were at their most out of control in that period, so prudence argues that it not be considered something absurd when it’s akin to things that we know happened at that very time.
You’re comparing entrapping potential criminals in harebrained schemes which the FBI then foils to actually assassinating a leading political candidate. That’s mental.
What about all the people who’ve “suicided themselves”? I think that when the media establishment wants to look the other way, they do.
By that definition, we need to nuke people like you until you glow, given that you are collaborating with the terrorists who keep attacking us.
It’s not the 60-70 year olds born in the 1950s who worship Kennedy. It is, was their parents.
The greatest generation now in nursing homes if they’re still alive. . The ones who read Life and Look and Time and News Week and Vogue and Women’s Day from 1954 to November 196o and voter for the media creation JFK.
The Kennedy voters were born between 1939 and about 1860.
I have always gotten a flu vaccine every year. Various other vaccines also require period boosters. Up until now, no one thought that annual vaccination or booster shots for certain viruses was a big deal. It takes like 30 seconds to get a shot and it helps prevent you from dying a painful death as you gasp for air. I’d say it’s a good idea but YMMV.
Thank you. Conspiracy theories concerning the RFK assassination are the dumbest thing ever. Sirhan killed RFK up close and personal and in a room full of witnesses. What he did is completely indisputable unless you are in some sort of denial.
Someone theorized above that Sirhan (like the 9/11 bombers) has to be not guilty or else that means that letting Arabs into your country is a big mistake. The other feeling I am getting from the comments is that “Sirhan hates Jews/Israelis almost as much as I do, so he really can’t be a bad guy.” Anyway, denying the obvious just makes you look more stupid than you already are.
We’re healthy and secure, but I’m grumpy. Haven’t gotten to Romania since the coronavirus nonsense started. Hope you are well over there.
Enough.
How are you over there?
The Jews have their own thing. It’s something of an acquired taste.
Bach was no Jew. He isn’t.
The mercy of the Lord however is from everlasting to everlasting.
Six of RFK’s kids put out an official statement that says that they are devastated by the parole. https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a37421128/robert-f-kennedy-children-sirhan-sirhans-parole-reaction-statement/
The kennedysandking site is a joke.
Sirhan was proud of killing Bobby Kennedy, said so over and over.
Sirhan’s mother said it was a truck, but maybe you know better than she.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1979/08/20/sirhan/75cd41f0-e570-4bc4-ac93-83f251eec765/
He also apparently saw a soldier blown apart by an explosion so maybe you are conflating the two incidents.
The Jordanian Army was active in Jerusalem once the British pulled out and indeed they ended up in control of the eastern half of Jerusalem (including the Wailing Wall) until 1967.
We are going to get you goyim addicted to bagels. Really lousy ones. There will be “bagel” shops from one end of America to the next. There will be bagel shops right in the heartland, in Des Moines and Topeka and so on. Except these won’t be real bagels – they will have horrible flavors like cinnamon raisin and blueberry and will be sick parodies of what a true bagel is.
Oh wait, never mind, we did that already. I don’t know what’s next.
That’s not evidence.
Yawn. Bobby Kennedy had nearly a year to investigate his brother’s death while still attorney general. He could have walked into the Oval Office and told LBJ he was going to launch a full investigation. LBJ could not have stopped it. Bobby could have gone to the news media also.
Do you think the Kennedys didn’t have friends in the Major Media who would have backed an investigation led by Attorney General Robert Kennedy?
As it was Bobby sent his own men to Dallas at the time and they told him, “Oswald did it.”
In 1967 when Jim Garrison ramped up his case against Clay Shaw, Bobby sent his minions to New Orleans. They reported back, “Garrison is a fraud.”
[BLAWRRRRRRRRERRRRRERRRRRRERRRR]
I remember at the time Sirhan was called a “Jordanian” in the press.
Thanks for letting us know you were yawning as you wrote that. We get it. This is you being super bored.
Of the annual flu shots you have taken, how many successfully guessed the strain? Do you keep track?
Ruth Bader Ginsburg thought Wagner was a great composer, but her opera buff buddy Antonin Scalia considered him grossly overrated. As Scalia came from a race with significant musical talent and a repetoire to show for it, I’ll have to go with his opinion.
It’s not widely remembered that in the US until 1973, a widow had to get her late husband’s permission to remarry.
His passport agreed. As did no doubt his permanent resident visa. What else would he be?
Certainly not American.
You’re the jagoff that just randomly but consistently assigns the Troll tag to people who make valid points around here, so its amusing to see that after all it was just half assed projection on your part.
Go ahead and slap it on me baby; from you I’ll wear it as a badge of honor.
Might I suggest with extreme emphasis that you should read the following book so your world makes a bit more sense?
https://www.amazon.com/Why-Good-People-Things-Understanding/dp/1592403417&ved=2ahUKEwihzJeQ7tTyAhX2IrkGHSKvAF8QFnoECDQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3cjpWTaeTvPvED0gjrhSt1
Montesquieu in l’Esprit des lois makes the point that all regimes are founded on a crime. Every existing nation in the world came into being by dispossessing/killing/enslaving the former inhabitants of that land. The Israelis did the same without the killing and the enslaving. But because Israelis are jews they are singled out for hatred and calumny.
lol @ obvious trolling.
Oswald evidently wanted to be part of a conspiracy and did lots of stuff to meet potential conspirators (although they tended to notice sooner or later that it was not in their best interest to be around LHO. I don’t see much evidence of Sirhan doing that, unless the Rosicrucians really do run everything.
I have always gotten a flu vaccine every year.
That’s nice.
Various other vaccines also require period boosters.
Every 6 months?
Up until now, no one thought that annual vaccination or booster shots for certain viruses was a big deal. It takes like 30 seconds to get a shot and it helps prevent you from dying a painful death as you gasp for air. I’d say it’s a good idea but YMMV.
You’re so predictably ignorant. It’s funny.
“That can take up to four months, so it sounds like Newsom is stalling until after the election. Perhaps some crack reporter could ask the Governor about Sirhan?”
Doesn’t matter. If Douch’em wins, it’s full strength covidiotism forever. If the black guy wins, every city south of Frisco will ignore his exec orders while the Cali Supreme Court declares everything he does unconstitutional. In fact, cities will punish voters with extra-strength covidiotism if they vote for the black guy. No matter how y’alls vote down there, life’s about to get much stupider.
” Conspiracy theories concerning the RFK assassination are the dumbest thing ever. Sirhan killed RFK up close and personal and in a room full of witnesses. ”
Who all said he didn’t shoot RFK. Steve Sailer may know a lot about hair, but not much about anything else.
About the Israeli attack on the USS Libery during the 1967 war. According to Wikipedia “In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3.32 million (equivalent to US$24.7 million in 2020) to the U.S. government in compensation for the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3.57 million ($25.2 million in 2020) to the men who had been wounded. In December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million ($18.8 million in 2020) as the final settlement for material damage to Liberty itself plus 13 years of interest.[9]”
It must have been an instance of mistaken identification of the ship as Egyptian as the Israelis claim, for there was no other reason to attack it. But for the crazed jew-hating commentators here, it is proof of the intrinsec evil of the jew. Misidentification of aircraft led to the Iranians shooting down a civilian airliner not long ago. The Ukranians shot down a civilian airliner during a military exercise. The American navy shot down an Iranian civilian airliner. All admitted to be mistaken actions.
Yeah, what a shame that there have never been any Jews with musical talent.
Oswald was egged on/brainwashed by communist governments.
Sirhan was egged on/brainwashed by the CIA.
Both were perfect: emotionally unstable men with wild swings of allegiance, always looking for the perfect place to take them in (Oswald looking for the perfect communist nation, Siran looking for the perfect church denomination).
RFK was a loose cannon-crusader type to the Deep State. Remember, the Kennedys were deep with organized crime (father Joe ran rum during prohibition with the likes of Meyer Lansky, and Giancana got them Chicago and thus Illinois in the 1960 steal). The mob thought the Kennedys would stop the heat suddenly coming on them from the Kefauver Committee in the 1950s, which had embarrassed the FBI into finally admitted organized crime existed and going after them.
But then RFK turned sharply when he was AG and went after organized crime. It was a double cross that angered the mob but also alarmed the CIA, whose close ties with the mob going back to WW2 were in jeopardy (mob had been extremely helpful in keeping saboteurs off the American docks and had also paved the way for the Yanks running easily through Sicily and mainland Italy during Patton’s invasion).
Iit also signaled that RFK as president might turn on the Deep State — the rumors about JFK’s killing being a conspiracy were bubbling up by then, and RFK looked like just the type of man to investigate and burn the CIA as president just to see if his brother was a hit by them.
RFK had to go. Thus, Sirhan, the crazy easily persuaded nutjob. Great cover, he was a babbling idiot, just a “lone wolf.”
You’re right. I should have said “taste”.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1993/11/16/to-kgb-agents-oswald-was-extremely-agitated/4089867a-47b4-4245-a2df-9560e805d1c4/
Oswald tried to redefect to Russia or defect to Cuba but both the Russians and the Cubans regarded him as a nutcase and a pain in the ass and wanted nothing to do with him. This is not just Communist propaganda – it was confirmed by contemporary American wiretaps and by stuff that the surviving embassy personnel said after the fall of the Soviet Union when they no longer had anything to hide.
Oswald was the kind of guy who couldn’t organize a piss-up in a brewery and he was the last person on earth you would hire to be an assassin. Blind luck brought Kennedy’s motorcade to a spot directly in front of Oswald’s workplace.
To an Italian, there are only two types of music:
1. Italian Opera
2. Frank Sinatra
Everything else is just noise.*
*Dean Martin is considered Frank Sinatra’s B-sides.
That’s just not true. Did you read the comment I was replying to? Vincent DiPierro, among many others, testified that he saw Sirhan shoot Kennedy from point blank range.
https://ktla.com/podcasts/frank-buckley-interviews/vincent-dipierro-rfk-assassination-witness/
As I said before, conspiracy theorists are just immune to facts. If they don’t like the actual facts, they just invent their own.
But we know lots about Oswald’s strenuous efforts to get himself involved with Cold War events, such as defecting to the Soviet Union, trying to visit the CIA in Mexico City, etc.
Did Sirhan do much besides change churches frequently?
Since when is the killer confessing “not evidence?”
Is that RFK’s bust behind (Literally) Sleepy Joe?
You get tired of the same stupid argument after decades of it.
And why didn’t RFK launch an investigation when he had the authority and almost universal sympathy from the American people?
Undermining his superiors? Shocking! Who does he think he is? Alexander Vindman?
As someone with a sweet tooth, I can’t really get too worked up about bagel purism. Whatever your view of what a bagel should look like, the beauty of this particular comestible is that unlike a cheeseburger, lox and cream cheese on a bagel won’t trigger any finger-wagging from your religiously observant lunch companion(s).
It’s a shame that Israel and Jordan didn’t make peace 30 years earlier. It certainly would have saved the rest of us a lot of trouble. But, I guess that was impossible as long as Jordan held the Wailing Wall.
It’s a lot more believable that Sirhan was a lone gunman than Oswald. We’ll probably never know the definitive truth about either assassination. However, it seems that the list of suspects in the death of JFK includes pretty much everyone except Oswald. It is odd that he was able to leave the USSR so easily though after immigrating there.
JFK and the Unspeakable is a book by James Douglass that does a lot to contradict your commie/Cuba theory. I’d recommend it to you even if you’re convinced of your explanation. He also argues that the military brass, in full cold war mode, thought that JFK was too soft on the communists and was a danger to national security. So they may have signed off on it.
Family of Secrets by Russ Baker throws a lot of shade on HW Bush, his presence in East Texas that day, and his hidden connections to the CIA and the oil men who all hated Kennedy.
The Israelis apparently did it (what else is new?) according to some (Michael Collins Piper?), because JFK was adamant that they give up their nuclear weapons aspirations. And it gave LBJ the presidency.
Let’s not forget the mafia who helped Kennedy beat Nixon and were repaid by Bobby with dogged pursuit and prosecution.
There’s just too much there there to pin it on Oswald. It was a conspiracy, right down to the multiple shooters. But Sirhan? I don’t know.
When he wasn’t in his right mind at the time, and takes it back later.
Did RFK actually do this?
There was tension between JFK and the Israeli government over the Israeli nuclear program.
While I consider myself against cruel and unusual punishment, I sometimes ponder the crime reducing potential that might exist in policies that most people in the West would consider unacceptable. Both “cruel” and “unusual” are deeply contextual.
Criminal punishment that’s used primarily as a form of venting collective anger or moral outrage can devolve into something ugly pretty fast. This is the failing of punishment in some strict Muslim theocracies, but if some of the forms of criminal punishment used in those societies were applied in a more purposeful fashion, maybe the result would be less cruel than what we currently have in the West. At the same time, such policies could convey a strong sense of “justice delivered” to victims of violent crime or their families.
We could do away with the death penalty. It might even be possible to do away with prison time for extreme crimes like murder. The alternative I’m suggesting is amputation. If your intent is to keep the murderer from killing again, removing both of his arms above the elbow would probably do the trick. How does a person commit murder with both of his arms removed above the elbow? I’m guessing it would be difficult. Society wouldn’t live in fear of released murderers; the armless are harmless.The remedy for rape should be even more obvious. You need the right equipment to commit the crime, and if you don’t have it, well….
There would be a great reduction in long term incarceration costs, and some of the money saved could be used to retrain convicts for armless occupations. Just a pondering.
Have you ever been required to show proof of having gotten one to go to a shopping center?
That’s kind of a big deal, isn’t it?
By the way, check out the stats on that video – 551,658 views ……….. ZERO comments.
Not even a “comments closed” notice. Just “Zero comments”.
Sure – I believe that.
False confessions are not unheard of.
Someone went to Mexico to try to defect. Was it really Oswald? Or was it an impostor who kind of resembled him? There was a lot of strange activity by a guy calling himself LHO who seemed to be everywhere during the months leading up to the assassination.
Reg, is the bust behind biden RFK?
Since Steve loves the covid data out of Israel:
‘This Ends The Debate’ – Israeli Study Shows Natural Immunity 13x More Effective Than Vaccines At Stopping Delta
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/ends-debate-israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-13x-more-effective-vaccines-stopping
And here in my own private state wide insane asylum, a Cook (metro Chicago) County Judge has taken custody away from a mother for not being vaccinated:
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/cook-county-judge-strips-mother-of-parental-rights-over-vaccination-status
RFK needed to win the California Democratic primary.
California Jews weren’t all that worked up over Israel during JFK’s term, but the events of 1967 changed that.
Blind luck brought Kennedy’s motorcade to a spot directly in front of Oswald’s workplace.
Oswald had been applying for many jobs and had gotten an offer to be an airport baggage handler when he found out about an opening at the Texas School Book Depository. As that would be easier for him to get to than the airport job, Oswald didn’t own a car or know how to drive, he went and spoke to Roy Truly, the facility manager. Truly was about to tell Oswald that there now weren’t any jobs available but then realized that a major floor refinishing project was occupying other employees and that at least for the time being they could use another worker.
In a decision he regretted for the rest of his life, Truly agreed to hire Oswald. Had it not been for that last-minute decision, or if there hadn’t been a floor refinishing job in progress, or for the fact that it was easier for him to commute to Dealey Plaza than to Love Field, Oswald wouldn’t have been in the Depository at all.
A similar bit of happenstance applied to Jack Ruby’s shooting of Oswald. Western Union records proved conclusively that literally two minutes prior to the shooting Ruby had been at the telegraph office next door to the police station sending money to one of his dancers who urgently needed money.* There was just enough time for him to notice the commotion, walk down the ramp to the police garage, and shoot Oswald with the revolver he always carried. The thing is, Oswald’s transfer to the county jail was supposed to have been several minutes earlier, but got delayed slightly when the police granted his request to change his sweater. Had he not made that request, or had the cops denied it, he would have been whisked away while Ruby was still on line at the Western Union office.
* = then as now, strippers make plenty of money but are lousy at handling their finances.
We seem to have gone from All Lives Matter to Politician’s Lives Matter. That would make a very popular T-shirt, I’m sure.
The Jews wish to keep concealed from the public the linkages between the US role as collaborator with Israel and costs to Americans. If those costs were made clear to people, it might cause a reevaluation of US policy toward Israel.
As another example, the jewish media and intelligentsia has been largely successful in suppressing the fact that the 9/11 masterminds were principally motivated by opposition to US Israel policy.
How am I supposed to know? Maybe the sight of his all-powerful brother’s brains being blown out in broad daylight followed by the “assassin’s” immediate assassination followed by the assassin’s assassin conveniently croaking after expressing his fear that all of this was gonna spark another holocaust gave him pause? Don’t ask me, I’m just a small town pizza lawyer. But let me turn you on to some interesting articles that were published on this really cool site called Unz Review.
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-i-what-happened/?highlight=Sirhan
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-mossad-assassinations/?highlight=Sirhan
Well, if Israel ever decides to nuke people until they glow, it will be using fissionable material stolen from US stockpiles in the 1960’s. Charming bunch of “allies” we have there. It’s called the Apollo Affair.
Thanks for posting this. Conspiracy theorists over 50 years later think they know better than the people in the room when RFK was shot.
Not all of them:
I dated one, a graduate student then who now owns a real estate company in Denver with properties in the “LoDo” district where Coors Field is. Gentrified by people like her.
She was one of those “private dancers,” who stripped in rooms in front of individual, masturbating men. She bought her own home even then, while I was still renting.
Without the killing? That’s a ridiculous statement.
Is she hiring?
” Blind luck brought Kennedy’s motorcade to a spot directly in front of Oswald’s workplace. ”
I know, right? In those days, everyone carried their bolt action rifle to work with them, and he just happened to be practicing his aim when the motorcade went by and thought “Why the heck NOT shoot the president?”
“Except there was hardly any media linkage of Sirhan to the Palestinian cause.”
Not in the immediate aftermath. Mel Ayton, a writer for David Horowitz’s blog and a professional debunker of conspiracies, published The Forgotten Terrorist in 2018. In it he compiled the many times Sirhan made anti-Jewish and anti-Kennedy rants around his family. Sirhan repeated his rants in public, specifically at Santa Anita where he worked as a stable boy while training to become a jockey. Ayton uses these anecdotes to paint Sirhan as the original jihadi. Israeli influence in American media is substantial. Ayton’s book was used to connect a painful event in America’s past with enemies of Israel.
“He was usually described in the press as ‘Jordanian.’”
Sirhan was born into a Palestinian Christian family. He became a Jordanian citizen in 1950.
The other RFK assassination debunker book was authored by Dan Moldea. That’s a weird one. The story of the Kennedy Administration and its battle with the JCS and CIA is epic. When you dive deep into the characters opposing the bootlegger’s sons — Curtis LeMay, Allen Dulles, Richard Helms, James Angleton — you realize these guys think of themselves as Titans. Beyond good and evil. JFK had to go for not properly bending the knee. And when his brother began making private inquiries regarding Dallas ’63, and then used his senate seat to run for president, the network used in 1963 began reforming.
“Family of Secrets by Russ Baker”
Great book about the House of Bush.
The Wailing Wall is not part of the ancient Jewish Temple that may or may not have existed.
It’s a retaining wall build by the Romans to support the new Roman government buildings that caused the hill on which they were built to weaken.
Clever engineers those Romans.
Nah. From Wikipedia:
The next day, on June 6, the Los Angeles Times printed an article by Jerry Cohen that discussed Sirhan’s motive for the assassination, confirmed by the memos Sirhan wrote to himself. The article stated: “When the Jordanian nationalist, Sirhan Bishara Sirhan, allegedly shot Kennedy, ostensibly because of the senator’s advocacy of U.S. support for Israel, the crime with which he was charged was in essence another manifestation of the centuries-old hatred between Arab and Jew.”[37]
But it didn’t sink in on most Americans. At age 9, I was probably about as well-informed of a consumer of the news as the average American, but I failed to link Sirhan to Palestinian terrorism for the next 30 years for mostly Sapir-Whorf reasons. “Jordanian nationalism” disappeared as a category in the news and was replaced by “Palestinian nationalism.”
The emergence of the term “Palestinian” made things clearer so it was an improvement. But you can also see that when you change names, lots of people lose the thread. I’m sure when lots of NPR listeners hear a segment about, say, Inuit youth huffing gasoline today, they are totally without a clue that the Inuit are same people as the Eskimos they read about with fascination when they were eight.
Really? Jacob Rubinstein just happened to be in the area and just happened to realize Oswald was out in the open and just happened to decide to murder him in front of a bunch of cops, on a whim, and later say he did it for Jackie?
Do you really believe that?
“Did Sirhan do much besides change churches frequently?”
Your bon mot hits at an important phase of Sirhan’s grooming: the talent scout at Santa Anita who saw something he could use in the unstable young man convinced the spiritually curious Sirhan to attend meetings at a local Rosicrucian temple. That’s where the programming began. Lots of occult weirdniks in the intelligence agencies.
Too good!!!!
Well, I haven’t looked through this long thread, and won’t bother repeating the fact, surely already mentioned by others, that the official coroner’s report conclusively proves that Sirhan didn’t kill RFK.
Instead, I’d mention a separate fascinating item buried deep within Ronen Bergman’s authoritative 700pp history of the Israeli Mossad that I was the first person to notice:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-mossad-assassinations/#final-judgment-on-the-jfk-assassination
Well, I haven’t looked through this long thread
Then you comment from ignorance. Not a good look for such a smart guy.
Silverfoil wrapped Cream cheese and Lox on a Bagel used to be a pleasant reminder that I had successfully missed 40 minutes of horrible yeshiva torture that morning.
Shofar, so good.
You, possessing a true genius IQ, were better than me, an 8 year-old with only +2 to +3 SD IQ as measured later.
The commotion downstairs woke me up in Huntington Beach, so I walked down and found my mother and one sister watching TV. I heard and saw live, “Is there a doctor in the house?” Mom explained to me what was happening. It was the first time I ever heard that expression.
I was disappointed, because even I was a Kennedy supporter then. A neighbor had a KENNEDY bumper sticker on his car. I saw it every morning as I walked 3 blocks to 2nd grade. I knew KENNEDY would win.
He would have won. That is pretty obvious. Who knows how things would have gone. I have become something of a Nixon defender, a believer that Watergate was really a kind of coup, but I suspect an RFK presidency would have gone better for all of us. First of all, and most important, maybe no Nixon-Kissenger opening to China. THAT is the worst thing that ever happened to the USA, and it will bury us.
I found Stuart Scheller’s video moving and humbling. Believing as he does, he did right to post it publicly.
It was also right that he be relieved of duty for posting it publicly.
Not sure it’s apropo but I was reminded of this: “Struck dead by an angel of God! Yet the angel must hang!”
The emergence of the term “Palestinian” made things clearer.
Only if you believe in geo-racial fluidity.
Prof Warren: I’m a Native.
Prof Krug: I’m an African.
JFK: I’m a Berliner.
Arab: I’m a Palestinian.
DEM: I’m a schoolteacher.
The truth is that requiring all sorts of curtailments of freedoms, rights and occasionally lives for the sake of the public welfare is very much how things operate and IS indeed similar to reauiring drivers’ licenses and seat belt wearing.
The future will bear me out.
In 20 years enforced vaccinations will be provided as an example for why X or Y curtailment of freedom is also justified.
So, my fellow freedom lovers, perhaps we ought to stand on principle and oppose drivers licenses as well?
I most certainly do.
Just to be clear….while you were renting a house, right? Not renting her.
It is still evidence, evidence of the most potent kind (a freely offered admission against interest), that he seeks to discredit, after talking to his lawyers.
See Aldens post at 4:46 AM. Sirhan was 4 years old when Zionists stole his family home and property in Jerusalem. His family was resettled in the US by Eastern Orhodox charities. BTW, another name for Eastern Orthodox is the church.
What is “pizza law”? Are there revenue opportunities of which we (in the Italian-American bar) are unaware? Please advise.
Given what Israel wants from the Polish legal system, could the Sirhan family seek the return or the value of their property seized by Israel?
With all due respect, that’s ridiculous. What did Israel have to gain by killing RFK and ensuring the election of the anti-Semite Nixon? Where did Sirhan’s hypnotic training take place? Pasadena? Why doesn’t he recall any of it? The only hypnosis Sirhan recalls is that he had several strong drinks before shooting Kennedy. Why was Sirhan’s training effective but the training of the Arafat assassin wasn’t? Witnesses saw Sirhan put a gun right up to Kennedy’s head and fire (Kennedy had powder burns on his scalp). Was Sirhan’s gun filled with blanks? It’s notoriously difficult to count the number of shots fired in an enclosed space because you hear both the shot and an echo.
Note the GTR5 hull markings and TRSSCOM parabolic antenna (“Moon Bounce”) you will NEVER see on an Egyptian vessel.
Bin Laden had little to do with Palestine. What upset him most was that there were American troops stationed on the holy soil of Saudi Arabia. Of the 19 hijackers, fifteen of them were citizens of Saudi Arabia, two were from the United Arab Emirates, one was from Lebanon, and one from Egypt and zero Palestinians.
Since someone here limits reaction-comments, I will just have to post mine as a reply:
• AGREE
It’s impossible to know what would have happened in some alternate reality, but geopolitical forces were driving China out of the arms of the Soviet Union and out of its isolation from the West. I think that those forces were more or less irresistible such that if they hadn’t happened under an RFK administration they would have happened soon after anyway, certainly after Mao died and the moderate Deng took power, post 1976 (which would have been the end of Kennedy’s 2nd term anyway). Believe it or not, the entire planet does not revolve around the United States – other countries have their own internal dynamics.
Bin Laden’s principal motivation was justice for Palestinians. “The mother of all causes.” He was very clear about that for years leading up to 9/11, and afterwards. What’s the point of an act of political leverage if you don’t make clear your demands?
Same with Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. He was deeply concerned with the ethnic cleansing in Palestine.
Perhaps, just perhaps, the children have actually formed an opinion independent of the official tale?
At least this time their position on this sordid story is mentioned.
For an anti-Semite, Nixon sure saved Israel’s bacon in the Yom Kippur war. He authorized Operation Nickel Grass, which saw the US strip our larder to ensure the survival of Israel. Of course, the Israelis had very visibly prepped their nukes for launch. Nukes assembled from material stolen from the US. The threat of nuclear war using stolen US material was used to blackmail us into supplying even more US material for use against the Arabs. Chutzpah.
Indeed, and we have ours. Who knows when American leaders would have come along, post Nixon-Kissinger, and greased the wheels to China. The same greed probably would have taken over, opening the vast marketplace to the same, farcical damage that is happening now.
I guess it’s too much to imagine a string of isolationist presidents in an alternate universe. Anyway, RFK wasn’t an isolationist, and he might have opened to China himself. Nobody knows, but it would have been nice to find out.
It is solely Mr. Sirhan who robbed all of America of that chance. Steve is right about that, contrary to Ron Unz’s middlebrow-sucker (dare we say midwit?) babbling about the crap he’s read about the subject. All the usual crap we’ve all read. (Proof that IQ isn’t everything.)
I suspect an RFK presidency would have gone better for all of us.
Why do you think so? What could he have done better than Nixon-Ford?
First of all, and most important, maybe no Nixon-Kissinger opening to China. THAT is the worst thing that ever happened to the USA, and it will bury us.
Opening to China didn’t matter to anyone till 1990’s. Even if Nixon-Kissinger didn’t open China in 1974, market forces would have achieved it by 1990s. Market forces have much larger impact on policies than who is elected as President. E.g. Immigration: Everyone has loved to stop illegal immigration for the past 75 years. But market forces have prevented Both parties from robustly implementing E-Verify – a very minor measure in terms of its impact on U.S. Citizens.
We all knew he was an Arab. The name Sirhan Sirhan was just a little bit of a give away. And we also knew Arabs and Israelis were fighting — with the Soviets on the Arab side. And in 1968 in America, that was a big deal. And in fact I would say that did more to get those 50 jets into Israeli hands than just about anything else. People loved seeing the Soviets getting slapped in the third world for a change, backing the losers.
OT
I’m halfway through book 5 in the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo series now, the second of the volumes written by a successor author after the original guy died.
I’m not sure where it’s going yet, but there is a secret, evil organization called Project 9 doing twin and adoption studies and studying nature versus nurture.
Sweden has the world’s largest twin registry, and Robert Plomin has done studies using it.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23137839/
It’s funny to see this topic end up in a popular thriller novel.
There’s also an angelic heroine character who is the daughter of Muslim refugees, but she is balanced by her family, who are a bunch of anti-feminist, sharia-promoting villians.
It’s not a bad book, better than I’d expected from a gun-for-hire thing done to continue a brand.
No, you’re entirely mistaken. Just read my long article or at least that particular section, and you’ll see the overwhelming weight of evidence supporting my analysis.
That’s a new one to me. According to the respected, mainstream accounts I’ve read, all the eyewitnesses agree that Sirhan Sirhan was standing several feet in front of RFK and never got any closer before he was wrestled to the ground.
But admittedly, I’m hardly an RFK assassination expert. If you’ve read credible accounts that Sirhan managed to put his “gun right up to Kennedy’s head and fire,” please provide me a link or two.
It’s mental to think it’s impossible that someone got Sirhan stirred up to kill RFK. Especially in that era.
MKUltra was a real program.
Oh, it’s all perfectly legal. Google it.
I don’t believe that Jacob Ruebenstein just happened to be doing errands around the jail at the exact time Oswald ( or one of a dozen or so Oswald imposters ) was being transferred to a car.
The only good thing about the President Kennedy Assassination is that the Assassination of his murderer was done in full view of a world wide TV audience.
Otherwise there would be a thousand or so books written and a million internet entries that Ruebenstein really didn’t kill Oswald.
Lol, no.
You’re the moron. The generals have been running roughshod over their superiors (i.e. us) for most of our lives and they’ve finally gotten so completely out of control that their own men are rising up against them.
This is what your precious generals have done:
There are no words to express the contempt in which the people of your country hold you and your generals.
Repent.
Nixon took us off the gold standard.
Nixon created the EPA.
Nixon opened the door to China. You can’t deny that. I’m not saying somebody else would not have, and you can see in my other comments that I understand what you understand.
It just would have been nice to elect the president we were supposed to elect, and that would have been Kennedy. And I am not a Kennedy lover. In fact, I am a defender of Nixon, not of what Nixon did.
My main point is how we will never know, and to support Steve’s thesis here.
In a vacuum, which is where all of you guys have evidently chosen to live as you act out this absurd theater.
Beats taking responsibility I guess.
In the 1973 war, Nixon Kissinger airlifted every single American tank in Europe to Israel. Leaving Germany Austria and all of western Europe open to a Russian invasion had the Russians wanted to. Vastly irritated our NATO allies.
I remember the 1968 California primary ads. The Kennedy ADs were all Kennedy slobbering over black and Hispanic activists.
It’s mental to think that the Jews’ ethnic cleansing of Gentiles from Palestine wasn’t by itself sufficient to “stir up” Sirhan.
I believe Bin Laden’s Mother or one of his father’s other wives was Palestinian. Not sure. Someone can ask Mr Google.
“Market forces,” LOL.
“Shots rang out.” “Gun violence erupted.” Nothing we can do about it.
No agency involved. No, humans have nothing to do with “market forces,” those magic things that move us all, despite what we or our elected leaders might want to do. No, we are powerless in the face of “market forces.”
L – freakin’ – O – L
He never took it back. When left-wing lawyers took control of him, Sirhan said he “couldn’t remember.”
They aren’t false when 10-12 people saw him do it.
Actually, I should have mentioned that if anyone’s seriously interested in the issue, we published a pretty good article on the RFK assassination a few months ago by Laurent Guyénot, which effectively summarizes most of the important evidence:
https://www.unz.com/article/rfks-false-flag-assassination-and-the-forgotten-palestinian-patsy/
The piece attracted over 150,000 words of comments, including ferocious criticism by very knowledgeable anti-conspiracy experts, yet absolutely none of them claimed that Sirhan Sirhan had gotten anywhere near RFK when the latter was shot in the back of the head at point-blank range.
That leads me to strongly suspect that you simply don’t know what you’re talking about.
The Jewish vote was leaning toward McCarthy and Bobby was trying to draw them to his side.
You are right! Neither the Hamas nor Fatah should charge Sirhan Sirhan with murder. But he was a guest in this country. Immigration has to mean letting your old world grudges remain in the old world. I realize Jews are worse on this than Sirhan. If he wanted to wage war against Israel, he should have done so in, y’know, Israel.
If Sirhan is still a Palestinian he needs to go back. Jonathon Pollard betrayed his country. He had the decency to turn his cloak as soon as he could. After he was caught. He would have spent decades as a high up traitor if he had his druthers.
Maybe you think that’s not fair, because Pollard gets to move to nice, first world Israel, but Sirhan has to go to a third world shithole, the West Bank. But people do not have a right to be be well-off, or even comfortable, but they do have a right to self-determination. I hope he returns, maybe the Palestinians should give him a parade.
If Sirhan stays here, living as a stranger in a strange land. Alone with an alien people all around him, then he’s not a champion of his people. He’s just a lumpenprole killer.
I have no idea what you mean by replying “In a vacuum” to my comment.
My apartment was nicer than her house. It was in a cooler neighborhood too, and I preferred to be there, but as she put it, “I own mine; you don’t own yours.” Smart girl.
“Update: Here’s investigative reporter Dan E. Moldea’s account of how he got a big advance from Norton to write a book proving that there was a Second Gunman, only to decide at the end of years of research that the security guard never fired his gun and that Sirhan was the only gunman and wasn’t in an MK-Ultra fog either.”
Here’s an idea: an academic journal that proves theories to be wrong, by publishing reports of scientists who started out on an experiment but then stopped. The possibilities are endless!
Let’s call it “Wastebasket: The Journal of Unwritten Research.”
There’s no point in arguing whether Israel is an ally or not. Allies simply have common interests and/or common enemies. South Africa was our ally, and plenty of Americans hated South Africa as much as you hate Israel. An African visitor would not have be justified in assassinating Jesse Helms because he facilitated arms sales to S.A. There are countless examples. Sirhan Sirhan is not a prisoner of conscience. He is a murderer.
By “market forces” do you mean politicians doing favors for rich men? The rich men don’t have to do something so crass as ask for a favor or request that a subset of laws be ignored. All they have to do is pay the last crop of politicians, who were themselves corrupt on spec, $25-50,000 for a speech. I don’t know what the going rate is for Senate Committee Chairs or former Speakers of the House to sit on corporate boards or shill for marijuana producers while they cry over the injustice of blacks in prison for simple possession, but I imagine the compensation is rather high.
Any politician shrewd enough to get into a high enough office that he can do these favors on spec, is shrewd enough to understand that he can. I kinda wonder what fees Obama commands when he gives speeches for all the bankers he did bring to justice. Did not take their ill-gotten fortunes, much less send them to prison. Would not surprise he if he can go to New York City or Greenwich, Connecticut, and give a 50k speech every weekday, and a hundred K speech on the weekend. Likely, he does not have to do something as crude as asking for his bribe. These guys are shrewd, too, and very well-socialized. They grease the skids.
“Market forces”
“He had an eight shooter, yet at least 12 shots were fired. ”
The greatest conspiracy theory, is that having evidence is a conspiracy theory.
“He had an eight shooter, yet at least 12 shots were fired. ”
What are you, James Bond?
“That’s a Smith & Wesson and you’ve had your six.”
In the 1973 war, Nixon Kissinger airlifted every single American tank in Europe to Israel.
Every one? Nah.
https://infogalactic.com/info/Operation_Nickel_Grass
Stop telling tales.
You are absolutely right. we have a L – freakin’ – O – L nation, since at least 1990s. (I have read it was so before that, but I do not know first hand). We may study our nation is a democracy or republic, but the phrase “The business of America is business!” (President Coolidge, 1925) is a truism. During the 1970’s, 80’s and even 90’s, the saying was that the most powerful branch of the government is not Congress or President but Bond market. They set the price and the governments work to figure how best to please the Bond market. We have (temporarily) been lulled into forgetting this iron-clad rule only because the rates are very low (near zero). If the rates start approaching (the historic) 3% – 5%, you will see how All governments instantly become slaves of Bond market.
I make no case for or against Sirhan. I could not possibly care less about him or RFK. I simply point out the many ways that Israel has acted against the interests of the USA when the assertion is made that Israel is our ally.
You are quite right that these vaccines will be used to justify and normalize ever greater intrusions into our lives. That’s why I oppose any effort to mandate them.
The TSA has been a concerted campaign to see what we’ll tolerate and evidently, it’s quite a lot. None of it is necessary or is even intended to “keep us safe”, as the sickening phrase is used.
I remember a time when proof of car insurance was not legally required to drive. The roads of the nation were not scenes out of Mad Max. Those laws were all pushed by insurance companies who wanted governments to mandate that people buy their service. And so now we do. And yet, I still have uninsured motorist insurance on my policy. Funny how that works.
So – Yes – I would be open to not requiring drivers licenses either.
“Wastebasket: The Journal of Unwritten Research.”
Good idea.
That sounds utterly ridiculous. Can you cite anything to that effect?
The Women of Alden appear to lack credibility.
I live in Japan, and when they guess wrong they somehow manage to get a second vaccine out by late fall.
National health insurance here doesn’t pay for vaccines in general, so it’s about $35 a pop.
They’re covering Covid vaccines, and I think other Covid related expenses, including monoclonals (but distribution and inventory is another question).
Not all politics has to involve bribes. We have a very rich tradition of politicians very openly soliciting campaign funds (generally consumes half of waking hours of a typical politician). Obviously, doing things that helps to bring campaign contribution and not doing things that may prevent campaign contributions becomes instinct for a politician on his or her 2nd day in office. Then we have lobbyists who may become politicians themselves and vice versa. Even more importantly, lobbyists go on to become politicians legislative staff (who write legislation) and vice versa. Finally, many if not most politicians come from upper echelons of socio-economic status and naturally favor their economic class. Market forces are like gravity; curse all you want, you may distort it but can not escape from it.
http://www.crimemagazine.com/robert-kennedy-assassination-%E2%80%93-final-truth
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/vincent-dipierro-rfk-assassination-witness/id1145043886?i=1000398990396
Guys who frequently change church denominations are usually a combination of emotional and quest-driven—really, the type who can be led into cult-like situations, as they search for esoteric truth and power.
And Sirhan got involved in the occult—the Rosicrucians.
https://www.biography.com/crime-figure/sirhan-sirhan
The USS Liberty is the Emmett Till of the anti-Semites. It’s the gift that keeps on giving.
Oswald was a lifetime commie mad at anti-communist, belligerent-to-communist-nations JFK who was looking for a way to impress himself on communists, particular Cuban intelligence, whom he tried to defect to. That’s really all we need. And as many people have pointed out, he had the time and distance to make the shots.
All the Soviets or Cubans needed to do was offer him a bit of encouragement and suggest he practice a little.
The whole mafia angle has always been the most laughable to me. The mafia doesn’t kill you in long distance shooting, it does it in back alleys and up close in ambushes.
And more importantly, the mafia had a long-standing rule/fear/ineptitude of going after law enforcement in this country. They didn’t kill Eliot Ness, they didn’t kill Thomas Dewey, they didn’t kill J. Edgar or any of the congressmen walloping them in the hearings, but suddenly they whack the president of the United States in the wide open while he’s driving in a car?
It’s romantic fantasy about mafia ability and power that is beyond laughable and in the realm of, “Dude, what drugs are you on?”
“Gosh, Israel just attacked a U.S. ship once during peace time and you keep blaming us! Get over it!”
I just noticed that Alden is an anagram for Laden. Maybe you know more than you are letting on.
Bin Laden’s cleaning lady was Palestinian. That’s as close as he got to having anything to do with Palestine. Sure, pushing the Crusaders out of Al Quds and into the sea is on the checklist of every candidate for khalif, but it was way down on Bin Laden’s list. Just look at his track record – first he fought the Soviets, then maybe killed some Shia at Gilgit, then he did some stuff in Yemen, then he criticized the US alliance with Saudi Arabia, then he moved to Sudan, then back to Afghanistan. All this time he could hardly be bothered to kill any Jews.
The mafia in Sicily murdered a couple of courageous prosecutors, but they have never heard the end of it.
And those were Italian prosecutors, not U.S. ones. The U.S. prosecutors, even the local ones, enjoy a lot more protections than the Italian ones.
I’ve not heard of a DA or ADA killed in my lifetime, and I think that goes back many decades. Usually, in a mafia movie or TV show, if some hothead mook wants to whack the prosecutor, an older, wise mafioso above him will smack him and remind him that if they whacked the prosecutor the heat would never end.
Perhaps, but how many times had Thane Cesar done this before?
If he was from The Philippines he mighta had plenty of practice.
Sirhan fired 8 shots, he got blamed.
How many others were also firing shots into the ceiling in concert with Sirhan while Cesar administered the coup de grace amid the pandemonium?
Mr Sirhan isn’t a Muslim, he’s a Greek Orthodox Christian.
The Soviets would not have used someone so obviously tied to them. That would risk war.
ABC news correspondent Forrest Sawyer (??) visited the KGB 30 years ago and they showed him their Lee Harvard Oswald file. Written all over it were warnings to never ever throw this out because this file proves we didn’t kill JFK, we just let that miserable bastard Oswald come sponge off us for awhile. Please don’t blame us!
Logically, that shouldn’t be convincing, but I could definitely imagine the panic at the Kremlin when they learned that JFK was shot by a Communist defector they took in.
Who is going to sign up to get shot at from a few feet away? If you are paying for a big conspiracy, why not first give Sirhan the money for a better gun? Why not pay the second gunman to shoot the first gunman? How come there’s never been a Jack Ruby after 53 years later.
I get you, but my point in saying they are mainstream is not that their views fit with the media industrial complex, or that they are very widely read, but that the website is normie friendly. It is not Unz or Vdare. The contributors are generally people who are still in respectable society, not on the fringes, and, while a particular article might be risky to pass on (from the pov of somebody fearing ostracism and loss of livelihood), sending someone quillette links is unlikely to raise the same eyebrows as sending vdare or counter-currents. Remember when Stephen Miller was confirmed to be a Nazi because he had share Vdare articles?
The panic over JFK being blamed on them led the Soviets to push the JFK conspiracy theories and Oswald being a patsy, because every conspiracy theory distracted from the fact that Oswald had defected to the Soviet Union, had a Soviet wife, and was a rabid communist who hated anti-communist pols like JFK.
Even today, most people don’t know about that, including some interesting in the assassination. All because the KGB did a good job distracting us with nonsense about the Mafia and Jack Ruby.
The KGB pushing the JFK conspiracy theories on the American public might have been the greatest disinformation campaign in the 20th Century, because it likely averted direct war between the two superpowers; most right-wing Americans would’ve flipped and demanded war if they knew just how communist Oswald was. FFS, no one defected to Russia!
I was thinking Everett Jordan of NC was another US Senator assassinated, but it was just 3 people killed and his press aide wounded by a disturbed man at an unannounced campaign appearance in 1972, so he likely wasn’t the target. He still lost the primary (and died for real in ’74), and Jesse Helms won the general. Our neighbor was running his DC office at the time, so I should have remembered this more accurately.
My grandmother’s housekeeper in the 40’s, 70’s, and 80’s had worked for Jordan’s son for some years in between. Mrs. J would often type up what she wanted done that day, with the important things in red. She never figured out that Lillie Belle couldn’t read it.
The CIA station chief Winston Scott knew something was wrong because he asked CIA Counter Intelligence (Angleton) who Oswald was when he turned up in Mexico City, they said they didn’t know him, Scott knew this was a lie as they undoubtedly would have had a big file on Oswald given his past history.
The fake defectors program Oswald was undoubtedly part of was highly unsuccessful, as was the case with Oswald the KGB knew they were bogus, one wonders why they bothered.
I find the JFK thing dull these days, the reality is many involved in the assassination have talked and we know broadly what happened, despite the cover up it was extremely well documented, more a case of the information just wasn’t able to be accessed by the general public in that day of limited sources. The bigger issue is actually deliberate attempts to muddy the waters. What impresses me is how well Michael Collins Piper’s book has stood up over time given how well hidden the Israeli hand was for so long, effectively being endorsed by an old spook and expert in the form of John Hughes-Wilson in his book, although you won’t find Piper’s book in his bibliography. That is the power of the lobby for you.
Never looked in to RFK but I find wildly fortuitous that he was assassinated too with the same sloppy non investigation done. Whatever the truth it really isn’t of importance except in relation to the first assassination.
Of course JFK still matters because we still live with the evil consequences of the Israel lobby in the West (and in the Middle East), and if unearthing the truth of their role in the JFK assassination will damage that lobby then we must press on.
In mafioso Malta, prosecutor represents mob instead:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-malta-daphne-idUSKBN22J1I9
It seems like gigantic book advances are the thing these days, at least for ex-presidents. Well, Democrat ex-presidents. And their wives. They get tens of millions and pay some hack to write the book. And they don’t have to rub elbows with the hoi-polloi.
The Clintons made bank from giving speeches, but they always were about giving value for the money.
Not the Apollo affair? Just the Liberty? I’ll note it for the manual.
Like Ron Unz, your final defence of the theories you seem to have a deep psychological need to believe in amounts to no more than “anything is possible.”
It is true that “anything is possible”, but then, of the infinite possibilities, you choose a fantasy of extreme improbability.
What is it in you that causes you to emotionally need this?
Answering, if only to yourself, will be very good for you indeed.
Let’s leave Jack Rubenstein alone. He was an impulsive man, not part of a conspiracy.
He liked strippers. I can identify with that.
Those two things and kidnap/murders, generally. There are always exceptions to a rule (for which see Zangara/Cermak, with Roosevelt as a cover story) and close up ambush (Hinckley and the two women who attempted to kill Jerry Ford failed.) and especially back alleys wouldn’t be good approaches for a President.
They have a habit of assassinating judges in Italy. Also prosecutors I think. They could have beeen part of a wider conspiracy, including other enemies.
LOL
Until the day his henchmen killed many Jewish-, Italian-, Irish-, African-, Asian-, and Hispanic-Americans, early in the Aughts.
It’s alleged by some conspiracy theorists that an attempted murder of Sirhan in prison was sanctioned by the Deep State, also that the so far tentative approval of the parole petition is meant to get him out into society so that they can get him there.
Six of RFK’s children strongly oppose Sirhan’s parole. Maxwell Kennedy, who was a prosecutor in the Philadelphia DAs office, just wrote a forceful Op-Ed in the LA Times against the decision.
Dutch Schultz wanted to hit Thomas Dewey and took it to The Commission. Albert Anastasia tracked Dewey’s movements and found it could be done when he had coffee before going to his office. The Commission turned it down for the usual reason–It would bring to much heat.
Schultz declared he would hit Dewey himself. The Commission sent operatives who knocked off Dutch Schultz in a Newark, New Jersey restaurant.
The Kremlin began the disinformation campaign of “The CIA did it” right from the start. Mark Lane put in a book. Garrison, a few years later, and Oliver Stone with his movie gave the KGB version chapter and verse.
Shrug. You aren’t usually this stupid.
Immediately following the shooting Sirhan cried out “I did it for my country.”
When asked by a police sergeant if he was ashamed of what he did he replied, “Hell, no!” His insistence that his crime was political was followed up with repeated protestations that no other motive existed except a love for his people. “June 5th stood out for me…more than my own birth date! I felt Robert Kennedy was coinciding his own appeal for votes with the anniversary of the (Six Day) war,”
On March 3, 1969, in the Los Angeles courtroom, Cooper asked Sirhan directly if he had indeed shot Senator Kennedy. Sirhan replied immediately: “Yes, sir.” Sirhan also testified that he had killed Kennedy “with 20 years of malice aforethought”. He explained in an interview that this referred to the time since the creation of the State of Israel.
Sirhan Sirhanwrote “R.F.K. must die” repeatedly in his notebook in the weeks before the assassination. “My determination to eliminate RFK is becoming more the more of an unshakable obsession,” he wrote in a manic torrent. “RFK must die. RFK must be killed. Robert F. Kennedy must be assassinated. . . . Robert F. Kennedy must be assassinated before 5 June 1968.”
Sirhan was interviewed by reporter .lack Perkins in the Los Angeles County Jail May 22, the day after he was sentenced to death. The interview was recorded and can be heard in full. https://soundcloud.com/user-282716576/sirhan-interview-with-jack-perkins-23-5-69
PERKINS: So when you heard Senator Kennedy talk about sending jet bombers to Israel-
PERKINS: You heard the report about it. In court you stated “You got so mad you wanted to kill him right then.” and that this betrayal was the reason you killed Kennedy.
SIRHAN: I heard the report about it and I wanted to Blast him right then.
SIRHAN: He seemed like a villain to me, like a man who wants to kill, like a man who wants to throw those bombs on people, destroy.
PERKINS: Arab people in many Arab countries seem to consider you something of a hero.
SIRHAN: Yes.
SIRHAN: “I think that the world sir should know that twenty years of suffering, deprivation, injustice for the Palestinian Arab people, sir, is enough.”
SIRHAN: See I didn’t shoot a man, Sir, I shot Kennedy. I told you that. For killing a human being I told you, I’d gladly go to the chamber. In no way do I feel any guilt about killing Kennedy because he’s just as much a killer as Hitler was. Everybody wants to have me have justice. Why don’t they catch him, sir, when he said he was going to give those 50 bombers to Israel? That’s mass murder right there you talking about. Is it because the Arabs are being murdered, that’s alright?
PERKINS: You think your case has brought this to their attention?
SIRHAN: I think whatever little attention it has brought is worth it. My life and regrettably Mr. Kennedy’s.
Thanks for this useful information, which was new to me.
In David Talbot’s very highly regarded 2007 book Brothers (pp. 372ff), the witnesses at the time all agreed that Sirhan was standing 3 to 6 feet in front of RFK when he fired his gun and was quickly wrestled to the ground.
Frank Burns, a top aide to Jesse Unruh, was standing right next to RFK, and agrees that Sirhan never got close to him.
For those sorts of reasons, LA Coroner Thomas Noguchi agreed that there was apparently a second gunman.
So they can kill a tall healthy (if comically sweaty) billionaire Jew but not an elderly Palestinian? What, were the security cameras working that night?
Be a stronger argument if any of the one thing overlapped with any of the other, or if your entire culture did not consist of remembering slights from thousands of years ago which probably never happened.
… wait, when did South Africa plan to bomb our diplomats and go through with shooting at our boats and drive through our camps in tanks? The people who hated South Africa were airhead celebrities who had been instructed to do so.
But why did the Soviets let Oswald “sponge off them”? This is the part of the LHO Saga that particularly glows for me. The official story is that Oswald attempted suicide after his citizenship application was denied. The soviets then apparently felt sorry for him and decided to enrich their worker’s paradise with the presence of this odd, mentally disturbed man who spent his week in the hospital behaving arrogantly towards everyone. They hooked him up with a job and an apartment and a tutor to improve his Russian. This is the official story. This makes no sense.
Those interested in a potential Israel angle might want to look into Ella German, Oswald’s first “girlfriend” in Minsk. She was Jewish and later moved to Acre.
And do not forget, after Bill Ayers” book was found to contain a dedication to Sirhan, one of RFK’s children made a strong public objection to Ayers being awarded professor emeritus status at the University of Illinois.
That’s not because the Kennedy child thought that the “trans Jordanian” piece of shit was innocent of murder.
https://www.newsweek.com/why-bill-ayers-was-denied-prof-emeritus-status-70075%3famp=1
No drugs at all. As others have pointed out, ambushes or back alley attacks are impractical for the president. The mafia bosses are too stupid to find talented snipers? Who’s high?
Besides, in this case the mafia would have been a partner with those in government who were planning the hit. They would not be the sole organization. But they had motive and they remain plausible suspects.
Did any of these really upset him? Or was it collectively a horse he was riding to get to his destination? What other options did he have for gaining temporal power in the manner of Muhammad? His razzias against DC and New York were just a way for him to accumulate warriors and money (from devout and wealthy Muslim) donors – the raw materials necessary for him to begin acquiring and stacking up territory. Ironically, it was al-Baghdadi who began realizing bin Laden’s ambitions on the ground, only to be thwarted by Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children along with the best close air support American taxpayers can buy.
Bin Laden was a classic power seeker looking to gather fighting men and money around him. His razzias had a big limitation – he sent his bravest and most capable operatives on one-way missions. Apart from the fact that the number of gullible but talented people is limited, it’s not easy to recruit people for one-way missions. At the subconscious lizard brain level, most potential Muslim recruits probably understood bin Laden’s pitch (die today to go to paradise tomorrow) to be at best pie-in-the-sky ruminations from yet another in a long line of would-be contenders for the prophesied Mahdi and at worst a con job.
Al-Baghdadi was more practical. Grab land from Muslim heretics (aka Shiites) and apostates (aka Alawites). Forget about these razzias against distant targets in the West except as a way of deterring direct Western intervention. Use worldly incentives – loot, women and slaves – that would be familiar to warriors from Alexander’s and Caesar’s time to recruit a better class of adventurer to serve as courtiers all the way to foot soldiers.
Similar incentives certainly worked for Cnut, who raised an army of Norsemen, Danes and Frisians to weaken the England built by Alfred the Great over a century earlier, and eventually unhorse Edmund Ironside.
https://astrofella.wordpress.com/2017/05/05/cnut-englands-viking-king-m-k-lawson/
I would just point out that the world “saw” Sirhan shoot RFK and yet we are having this discussion many years later.
You’re doing very selective quoting.
DiPierro also says that as he began firing, Sirhan lunged forward, bringing the muzzle of his Ivor-Johnson revolver to within inches of Kennedy’s head. “It would be impossible for there to be a second gun,” Di Pierro told Kessler, “I saw the first shot. Kennedy fell at my feet. His blood splattered on me. I had a clear view of Kennedy and Sirhan.”
I don’t know how much clearer DiPierro could be. There is zero ambiguity in his testimony. Witnesses can have flawed perceptions and maybe DiPierro has been paid off or threatened by the CIA or something but if you choose to believe him (and I do) there was no second gun and no second gunman.
I used to think that it was ridiculous that things like this happened, when the evidence is overwhelming. But I understand now that denial is a product of human psychology. If something is too horrible to contemplate or if it would disturb your world view and require you to take unpleasant actions, you choose not to believe it because the alternative (believing what is before you) is the worse alternative. For example, if you believe that Sirhan is the shooter, then maybe letting in all these wonderful vibrant immigrants from the Arab and Muslim world has maybe a downside to it and it’s not all delicious hummus and rainbows. So, change your entire worldview or disbelieve that Sirhan is the shooter – which is easier?
I am reminded of the story of the meeting of Polish resistance fighter Jan Karski with Justice Felix Frankfurter. Almost unbelievably and at incredible risk, the Polish resistance smuggled Karski in and out of a concentration camp and then out of Poland to Washington so that he could give an eyewitness account of the Holocaust (and other conditions in wartime Poland) to the West. The non-Jewish officials he met with in Washington (including FDR) seemed uninterested in his accounts of the Warsaw Ghetto, the extermination camps, etc. so he arranged a meeting with Jewish Justice Frankfurter. Frankfurter treated his hair raising tail with complete disbelief and as a result, did nothing. Afterward, Frankfurter said, “I did not say that he was lying, I said that I could not believe him. There is a difference.”
Sorry for the confusion. I’m certainly not disputing what DiPierro claimed to have seen, which he first mentioned several years after the assassination. But the eyewitness evidence of the other witnesses, including Unruh aide Frank Burns, who was standing right next to RFK, seems far stronger to me. From the recent article on this website:
https://www.unz.com/article/rfks-false-flag-assassination-and-the-forgotten-palestinian-patsy/
It seems to me rather obvious that there are enormous vested interests which try to buttress the “official narrative” on a whole range of issues, notably including the racial matters that tend to dominate Steve’s blog and readership. Therefore, it’s hardly surprising that an RFK witness would eventually turn up years later and claim to have seen what none of the witnesses at the time did. But this media “tilt” needs to be considered when reconstructing events.
I was just trading notes about the RFK assassination with an entirely mainstream friend of mine who’s certainly a full member of the elite Establishment but (quietly) for several decades has been 100% sure of the JFK and RFK conspiracies, and he suggested a new book to me with regard to the latter that I think I’ll take a look at.
So why don’t you apply this much of your enormous mental energy to questioning the “vested interests which try to buttress the ‘official narrative’” of SARS-CoV-2?
???!!!
Okay. When you finish reading it, in, oh, five minutes or so, you can post 10,000 words about it here — using the personal pronoun even more than I do, and you can hold it up as proof of your already-decided conclusions.
For a man who — quite admirably — publishes things “Largely Excluded From the American Mainstream Media,” you certainly seem to fall back on the mainstream when it agrees with your pre-determined conclusions.
I thank you for at least publishing articles counter to your own opinions, but I just think you can do better with your own.
Certainly something that challenges one’s worldview or beliefs to a degree that it creates cognitive dissonance could help to explain why people choose to disbelieve what most people accept as obvious.
Otoh, when an institution has been caught over and over again red handed, having engaged in evil acts and lies that are contrary to the best interests of we the people, it is only rational to question everything. This describes the US government since at least 1913.
That’s why I’m willing to engage with conspiracy theories. Some will be false, some will be true. But I believe my government is, and has been, full of nasty characters for a long time. So, was Sirhan a patsy who didn’t even know what he was doing? I don’t know; I didn’t even exist in 1968. But I’m committed to holding two contradictory notions about it in my mind because TPTB have proved that if they can fool us, they will fool us.
LARPing as some abortive love child of the Kamikazes and Last Throes Confederacy is appropriate I guess since the principled stickler brigade also hasn’t won a war since before 99% of your countrymen were born but in this context it’s the utter height of absurdity.
The only man in the whole sinking joint held accountable is the one who speaks the truth. Somehow appropriate for a nation who’s pledged their allegiance to Pilate.
What is Truth indeed? Your Fathers knew! Foucault didn’t! Yes, yes, of course Thomas More.
Can y’all at least do the rest of us a favor and follow the Japanese example and not waste a century chasing Lost Cause ghosts?
Wrath is a sin. It isn’t g-loaded one way or another.
I find it hard to believe that you can portray these generals – who at this point are little more than a PR firm for some very avaricious mob bosses – as somehow being shrinking violets afraid to let their Col Jessup out on their superiors. After the last year plus. They’ve done little else.
Speechless
Suppose someone emerged from Palestine with hair-raising tales of how the IDF acted there. Would accepting those reports as fact be something so threatening to your worldview that you would refuse to believe them?
Jack’s right on this one.
And you Ron, were in politics and are familiar with what Kennedy did as soon as he got off the stage.
Kennedy was surrounded not just by his regular entourage but by hotel workers and anybody from the audience who could crowd in Life long politician Kennedy, his wife, and aides all did what they always did. Smile , smile, smile, shake as many hands as possible. Speak to and look directly at people trying to talk to you or attract your attention.
So they shake one person’s hand, and use the other hand to pat another person’s arm. Say a word or two to one or two persons while looking directly at another with a “ get to you in a minute” look.
Spouse maybe adult kids . some aides smile smile smile and repeat “ thank you for coming” Other aides listen to important donors and local leaders. Promise to pass on their important messages to the candidate.
When they are leaving an event the candidate and entourage moves fast. Daytime event on to the next event Last event of the day to the airport or hotel where they can sleep a few hours before doing it all over again.
From head to waist, candidate, aides, any family members, are in constant motion moving their heads, and necks to make eye contact with and greet as many people as possible.
Kennedy’s head neck and shoulders were in constant motion. Sirhan managed to hit 8 people that night. He was only about 2 feet from Kennedy. Why is it so hard to believe it was one of his shots that hit Kennedy?
The entire world saw on live television Jacob Ruby shoot Lee Oswald.
The only people who saw Sirhan shoot Kennedy were in the kitchen with killer and victim. The visual record of the Kennedy shooting is photos taken before and after the shooting.
Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear.
Welcome Me Bin Laden, we’ve been expecting you. Though, if I’m being completely honest, I assumed you were a tad smarter than this.
Still, happy we can be here to help you practice your English.
Good one Jack. Keep ‘em coming.
C’mon, Jack. You can do better.
Pierre Hideki Tojo-Beauregard.
Could you rewrite this comment something vaguely coherent? Maybe when you come down from whatever high you are on?
No, you were clear enough. I was being a bit facetious there to make a point. My apologies.
I’m sorry. Thanks for replying. It’s just that on these conspiracy discussions I can’t tell what is factual, what is comedy and what is just just insane.
At the time of his birth, Jordan was not an independent country. Furthermore, Jerusalem (his birthplace) was part of British Palestine, rather than the Emirate of Transjordan. Therefore, the question isn’t as clear-cut as you are pretending it is.
Did you watch the video? Did you read what I wrote?
I’m glad you find that hard to believe since it didn’t happen and is wildly unrepresentative of what I think of them. Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are cowards, but that isn’t their main problem. Corruption is their main problem.
I was characterizing what Scheller said. He accused them of cowardice. He was doing exactly what I explained he was doing. What he did is admirable, which, again, is what I said.
This rather slimy propagandist ignores the killer fact-RFK was shot from point-blank range behind the ear. Sirhan,the perfect patsy, could not have fired the killing shot. The rest is the usual Establishment garbage.
It’s possible the route of the motorcade deliberately went by the Depository as Oswald was known to be working there. The fact that he got hired on an off-chance wouldn’t be relevant, so much as the fact that he was there.
I’ve heard the Ruby-Western Union story before. 2 possibilities:
1) Ruby showed up with the intention of killing/silencing Oswald but thought he had already been taken away (as you said, scheduled to leave earlier) and so went next door to send money to his dancer only to come out and see Oswald being led off.
2) Ruby was aware Oswald was still at the station but determined the garage was too crowded to get in a good shot. Went next door to send the money, came out and saw a clear pathway to where they were leading him out. Took advantage of the situation.
It’s unlikely that Ruby would have been the only method of silencing Oswald that the putative conspirators were considering. Had Oswald made it out of the police station they could have then had him “Epsteined” in prison. Therefore it wouldn’t have been absolutely essential that Ruby kill him that day – only if he saw a promising opportunity. This could explain his seemingly capricious behavior.
The fact that Ruby was hanging around the station, pretending to be a member of the press, in the days after the arrest suggests he was “scoping things out,” and not necessarily inexorably committed to killing Oswald.
I have NEVER seen any assertion that Sirhan was only two feet from RFK. Every one states much greater distances. Where did you get that, or did you make it up yourself? In any case the coroner found that the killing shot was from point-blank range.
Yeah, but RFK had umpteen children. The vengeful viciousness after fifty-three years (an Israeli Jew gets a fine for murdering a Palestinian)is very American.
That’s certain part of the problem – our leaders have lied to us so many times that if Joe Biden told you the sky was blue, you wouldn’t believe him. That’s part of why there is so much resistance to the Covid vaccine. Whatever the government tells you, people automatically assume that the opposite must be true.
Whatever the IDF does, Hamas would do 1000x worse if the situation was reversed. They throw their own Arab brothers off of 15 story rooftops if they belong to Fatah – you can only imagine what they would do to the Jews given the chance. Your double standards are breathtaking. Assad has killed half a million and displaced maybe 5 million right next door, but all you worry about is if the Israelis rough up a terrorist once in a while.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-gaza-scene/gaza-fighting-descends-into-new-brutality-idUSL1264188820070612
Some batch(es) of Moderna vaccine in Japan have contamination:
https://archive.is/rmOzn
Naturally the Japanese have withdrawn those doses.
https://archive.is/MAn1g
Deep conspiracy theorists may find this part interesting:
Nixon/ Kissinger did and every American officer in Europe was aware of it. And not one tank was returned. FYI my information about the 1973 was obtained in books written by people with first hand information. Not from the wikepedia the MEN OF UNZ believe is the only source of information.
Ignoramus doesn’t believe me because it’s not on wikepedia. Enjoy your ignorance. There were also American troops on the ground in the 1973 war. And have remained there since then.
Have you ever fired or even seen a handgun? I doubt it. Measure 3 feet from one of your chairs. Stand 3 feet away. Extend one arm and. hand. You will note that your arm and hand are much closer to the chair than your feet and pelvis.
For you fools quibbling about neck wounds. Take a measuring tape. Measure one side of your neck from Adam’s apple to vertebrae at the back. It’s just a few inches. With the target continually moving his head to acknowledge people, it’s difficult to argue about the exact locations of Thane Cesear’s Mordred’s Sauron’s or Tinkerbell’s bullet.
At least the entourage didn’t violate California law and remove the body from police custody and take it to DC for the autopsy. As the John Kennedy entourage violated Texas state law.
A variety of opinions on your fathers murderer (attempted or not)?
Something you’re not aware of ignoramus.
Robert Kennedy was the Chief Law Enforcement Officer of the United States. Attorney General. He had from late November 1963 to late January 1965 to use every federal state and local law enforcement agency in the United States and its territories to investigate the President’s murder.
So why didn’t he do it when he had the power to do it?
Or did he investigate the assassination as Attorney General and conclude Oswald was a grandiose loser wanna be communist and Jack Ruby succumbed to a state of equally grandiose hysteria and shot Oswald for “ Jackie and the Jews”
Schultz was such an unusual mobster, no wonder there have movies and books about him.
Although Jewish, he didn’t grow up in the Jewish gangs/mob, but was always a loner in the organized crime world.
He was terribly in denial about his father abandoning their family when he was young, right out of a Freudian analysis.
His methods of punishing enemies were out of a serial killer movie. He would wrap infection-laced bandages around the eyes of opponents to blind them.
He was the only mobster to pay his gang a salary instead of a cut of any earnings.
And, of course, his determined attempt to kill a prosecutor. Other mobsters thought he was wacko.
Mad Dog Coll, a contemporary, was a loner as well, but he was just a sadistic killer bully type. Dutch, in contrast, seemed like he was operating on a different plane than anyone else in the NY mob scene — not a higher plane, just an altogether different one.
Dr Noguchi was fired from his position as Coroner/ Chief Medical Examiner LA County for gross malfeasance, mis management and mis statements about celebrity deaths autopsied by the CME’s office in 1982. Said statements made years after the autopsies. Statements that contradicted the original autopsies made under his direction.
Marilyn Monroe is an example. Dr Noguchi was the senior medical examiner, not yet promoted to CME who actually did Marilyn Monroe’s autopsy. He reported unequivocally, that there was irrefutable physical evidence that she swallowed prescription barbiturate sleeping pills. And died of an overdose of her prescription meds. That was the report he sent to the investigating detectives. Overdose.
He also speculated that she might have committed suicide because she was depressed. Not appropriate because he wasn’t her psychiatrist or had any way of knowing her state of mind than any other tabloid reader.
But that was OK. And he was soon promoted to County Chief Medical Examiner
Then several years later the famous “coroner to the stars” began agreeing with the books claiming Monroe was murdered by injected liquid barbiturates with a syringe or enema. And he began to recall that he hadn’t really noticed any pill remnants or residue in her stomach contents. So maybe someone gave her liquid barbiturates.
After making all sorts of un professional statements about celebrity deaths years after the autopsy findings and burials the County Board of Supervisors authorized an investigation of the CME office. He wasn’t fired for his publicity seeking statements and unwarranted assumptions about celebrity deaths. He was fired for years of mis management and malfeasance.
Civil Service , a self created celebrity and non White. Takes a lot of mis management to fire someone like that RFK was autopsied 4 years before Noguchi was fired.
other eyewitness accounts agree with Vincent DiPierro. RFK was shot by Sirhan Sirhan at close range when we was shaking hands with the busboy Juan Romero. No witness ever has reported a second gunman.
Los Angeles Times photographer-reporter Boris Yaro was standing a few feet away.
“Kennedy backed up against the kitchen freezers as the gunman fired at him at point-blank range,” Yaro said. “He cringed and threw his hands over his face. I turned around and saw Kennedy lying on the floor. Blood seemed to be pouring out of a wound in his head or ear. It seemed as though he was trying to say something but you couldn’t hear him.”- Boris Yaro, as reported in the UPI archives from June 1968. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1968/06/05/Kennedy-shot-condition-extremely-critical/7888524140351/
Borus Yaro then took the famous photographs of RFK lying on the floor next to the busboy holding his hand.
Karl Uecker was the hotel maitre d’, guiding RFK thru the pantry. He told the police in 1968 that “Kennedy stopped to shake the hands of the kitchen help, I took his hand to lead him along and at that moment someone reached around me and before I knew what happened two shots were fired and the Senator fell to the ground.” This is from his statement to the FBI made in June 1968. https://isgp-studies.com/miscellaneous/rfk/testimonies/1968-06-08-rfk-assassination-testimony-karl-uecker.pdf
Uecker’ Statement to the FBI corroborates the eyewitness account given by Juan Romero and Ed Minasian who both saw Sirhan Sirhan reach around Uecker and shoot Kennedy at close range in the back of his head. As they told FBI investigators in June 1968- https://isgp-studies.com/miscellaneous/rfk/testimonies/1968-06-07-rfk-assassination-testimony-ed-minasian.pdf
There were similar accusations made about Milton Helpern, the NYC coroner who was a celebrity in the 1950s into the 1970s. I could never figure out for sure what really was going on with either medical examiner.
My impression is that RFK immediately assumed his brother’s murder was due to a conspiracy and came up with 3 theories he had his top men investigate: the first was Mafia vengeance for RFK’s investigations of them. I don’t recall the other two.
LBJ’s initial assumption was Castro had done it in vengeance for JFK and RFK trying to assassinate him.
Jackie Kennedy seemed to believe it was White Supremacists and was disappointed it was just some Communist.
So, all the ultimate insiders initially assumed that some conspiracy theory would ultimately turn out right.
It’s definitely unlikely to raise the same eyebrows as dissident right publications, but I was under the impression that it was very much not normie-friendly. If I’m wrong about that, great!
So the answer to my question is: No, you can’t provide any evidence of your contention.
The Women of Alden can’t be bothered with evidence.
So, what’s the moral logic here?
Following 9/11, an attack on US, Americans had every right to take revenge and invade another country and drop tons of bombs and kill many.
But upon having their entire nation destroyed by Zionists backed the US, Palestinians have no right to strike back.
So, the US was right to bomb Afghanistan to smithereens and nuke Japan due to 9/11 and Pearl Harbor, but Palestinians should just take it and accept their fate as losers because they are… low IQ?
When US retaliates and kills innumerable people for revenge, that’s totally justified, but some people, such as Palestinians, should just accept their fate as losers even though their nation has been wiped off the map for no fault of their own?
Btw, Jonathan Pollard treachery did great harm to US security and even led to the death of many agents behind the Iron Curtain. He was really a mass killer. But he’s been pardoned and is now sitting pretty in Israel and urging fellow Jews in the US to follow his example. Did this blog vent any spleen about that case?
Steve’s blog has a search function. If you search for “Pollard”, you’ll find many posts on the subject. He has many apologists among the commenters here as well as many detractors. I don’t think you’ll find that Steve holds him in high esteem, but you should, of course, read his posts yourself.
I, personally, hope he burns to death.
Rereading Michael Collins Piper’s chapter on RFK in “Final Judgment.” He points the finger at SAVAK, the Shah of Iran’s secret police. He alleges that a member of SAVAK, one Khyber Khan, had infiltrated the Kennedy campaign and was behind the hit.
SAVAK was created by/affiliated with Mossad. Additionally, the Shah had been friends with CIA director Richard Helms since childhood and had longstanding enmity towards the Kennedys.
The guy who steered Kennedy into the kitchen was Frank Mankiewicz, former publicity man for the ADL and future publicity man for the film JFK, produced by Israeli spy Arnon Michlan, which pointed the finger exclusively at American right-wingers.
Meyer Lansky’s network was involved, and Piper notes that Sirhan Sirhan had worked at the Santa Anita Racetrack, controlled by Lansky’s west coast underboss Mickey Cohen.
Vertiginous stuff. Would be deflating if actually Sirhan just did it because, as he’s asserted in earlier parole hearings, he was drunk and pissed off at RFK for committing to sell war planes to Israel.
I wasn’t in the American army in 1973. I didn’t help move American tanks and other war materials from Germany to Israel. So I can’t provide eye witness evidence. But many American army officers who helped move those tanks have written about what happened.
Bet you believe that the Israeli Air Force and navy believed the U.S.S. Liberty was a Yasir Arafat battleship ready to send nuclear bombs to Israel. And that’s why they had to injure and kill 170 American sailors.
It happened. And America has had American combat troops in Israel for 50 years.
The Noguchi thing began because the friends and relatives of celebrities were outraged by Noguchi’s allegations. After his speculations about the Natalie Wood drowning an investigation was finally authorized. And much malfeasance and mis management was uncovered.
I read about it soon after it happened in an anti Israel magazine, Middle East Perspective. It was a reprint of an article bragging about the airlift in Air Force Magazine. American Air Force That is, not the Israeli Air Force.
There’s even a wikipedia article about it. I know you’re one of the morons who refuses to believe anything if it’s not in Wikipedia.
You’re a very very very very very very uninformed person. You seem to believe that if you’ve never heard of something it never happened or doesn’t exist. Moron
Virgil Caine is my name and I served on the Danville train. Till Stoneman’s Calvary came and tore up the tracks again. Twas the winter of 65 we were hungry just barely alive. Then May 10th came and Richmond fell. It’s a day I remember oh so well.
Nixon authorized a big airlift of military supplies to Israel in October 1973 during the Yom Kippur War, Operation Nickel Grass.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nickel_Grass
This included American tanks, but I can’t find a count of how many tanks were shipped to Israel. I suppose the number is still secret. 22,000 tons of military stuff were delivered, but I can’t find a breakdown of counts of different types of weaponry.
I know, Nickel Grass or something. All Mr Anon had to do was type American airlift 1973 war. And he’d have found a page or two of references. But he’s an idiot who doesn’t believe anything I post. More info in some anti Israel books I’ve read. Testimony of Americans who delivered the weapons and tanks. Not one of which was returned. But I’m not going over to the UCLA library and wear a mask and sit in the frozen air conditioning of the Young Research Library looking for some titles to satisfy another moronic MAN OF UNZ.
Don’t mean to be a witch but I am. And Kennedy worshippers and their endless theories irritate me. The Who Killed Kennedy genre is historical fiction. No different from Dumas, Costain, Plaidy or Gregory.
Assad is a great Syrian hero. Fought off the various rebels, Iran and other maniacs trying to take over Syria. Very pro Christian. Therefore good. I didn’t know Israel was anti Assad. Didn’t know Israel is at war with Syria. Why? . Maybe the fact that Syria is sitting on an oil field potentially as great as Kuwait’s . If Assad ever manages to get rid of all the invaders and rebel faction.
The General Francisco Franco of the Middle East.
Reading other insane theories on the internet is useless. Just idiots reinforcing each other’s ridiculous theories.
This is what you should do if you wish to
learn what happened. Order the autopsy report, the forensic report, the investigators and detectives notes and the trial transcript.
The most important item is the forensic report.
The forensic report states that Sirhan held and fired a gun. His fingerprints were in it. Gunpowder evidence was on his hand and wrist. And most important moron, the 3 bullets dug out of Kennedy’s body had been fired from the gun with Sirhan’s fingerprints in it. It’s known as irrefutable physical evidence.
Read the trial transcript testimony of the forensic experts. The prosecutor asks questions, the forensic expert answers.
Yes, that gun has Sirhan’s fingerprints on it. Yes those are the 3 bullets dug out of Kennedy. And the absolute proof. Yes, The bullets dug out of Kennedy’s body were fired from Sirhan’s gun. Not a gun fired by security guard or a CIA spy or a Mossad spy or a Jesuit or Illuminati White supremacist or KKK or Nazi. But the gun held and fired by Sirhan.
Instead of wandering around the Internet idiocracy read the forensic report and the forensic testimony in the trial transcript.
All of you including Ron Unz should read the original documents.
Amazing. The US Taxpayer doesn’t get to know what we supplied to Israel 50 years ago.
An M-60 weighs about 50 tons.
The 22,000 ton figure is for the airlift. Another 35,000 tons was shipped by sea. It’s not clear that either of those numbers includes the F-4 Phantoms or A-4 Skyhawks that were flown into Israel under their own power. The Skyhawks required 3 US Carriers to complete the flights, mainly for aerial refueling.
Strangely, the Israelis didn’t see fit to attack any of the US ships engaged in the sealift.
“David in TN” – You really need to do a little research on the murder of RFK. Los Angeles Coroner, Thomas Noguchi, with the agreement of Cyril Wecht, determined that the gun shot which killed RFK was the one that RFK sustained behind his right ear. At no time was Sirhan in a position to make that shot. This fact was confirmed by many witnesses, including Paul Schrade and Rosy Greer.
Sirhan was simply a patsy, as was Oswald.
From Brad, also in Tennessee…
But I obviously have. Over the last 14 months, I’ve published a long series of articles very strongly arguing that the Covid outbreak was the result of an American biowarfare attack against China (and Iran). Here’s my latest and most comprehensive summation:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-covid-epidemic-as-lab-leak-or-biowarfare/
On the other hand, as far as I can tell, the “mainstream narrative” about the nature of Covid virus and the substantial danger it poses seems pretty much correct, which is probably what you’re complaining about. Similarly, I doubt the vaccines are an evil plot by Bill Gates to enslave us using nanotechnology:
https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/are-the-opponents-of-the-covid-injections-anti-vaxx-crackpots/
Instead of reading another book about the Robert Kennedy Assassination; why not order copied the autopsy report, the forensic report, the investigators and detectives notes , the murder book and the trial transcript.
Read the forensic report. Sirhan’s gun had his fingerprints on it. Powder residue on his hand and wrist. Most important, the 3 bullets dug out of Kennedy’s body were fired from Sirhan’s gun. No other gun.
Read the testimony of the forensic experts in the trial transcript. It’s all there. Yes, that’s Sirhan’s gun. Yes his fingerprints are on it. No there are no fingerprints but Sirhan’s on it. Yes all 3 bullets dug out of Kennedy’s body were fired from Sirhan’s gun.
Expensive and very tedious reading. But irrefutable facts not idiot speculation.
Sirhan Sirhan immediately let everyone know why he shot RFK, he stated “I did it for my country” http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/S%20Disk/Sirhan%20Sirhan%20Bishara%20Trial/Item%20060.pdf
During his trial he reiterated that he shot Kennedy because of his support of Israel. During his trial in 1969 Sirhan Sirhan attacked Jews and Zionists for occupying his nation.
In his first TV interview after being convicted he again reiterated that he killed Kennedy for his people, Palestinian Arabs. http://rfktapes.com/ep4-transcript/
PERKINS: Arab people seem to consider you something of a hero.
SIRHAN: Yes.
PERKINS: A martyr. You think you have accomplished something? What?
SIRHAN: I think that the world sir should know that twenty years of suffering, deprivation, injustice for the Palestinian Arab people, sir, is enough.
SIRHAN: I think whatever attention it has brought is worth it. My life and regrettably Mr. Kennedy’s.
SIRHAN: See I didn’t shoot a man, Sir, I shot Kennedy. I told you that. For killing a human being I told you, I’d gladly go to the chamber. In no way do I feel any guilt about killing Kennedy because he’s just as much a killer as Hitler was. Everybody wants to have me have justice. Why don’t they catch him, sir, when he said he was going to give those 50 bombers to Israel? That’s mass murder right there you talking about. Is it because the Arabs are being murdered, that’s alright?
From the moment Sirhan Sirhan shot Kennedy he has been consistent in claiming he did it for his country, his people (Palestinian Arabs) and he despised Kennedy for supporting Israel. His notebooks indicted that the the Arab Israeli situation was the key reason he sought to kill RFK.
Kennedy had betrayed him by urging the sale of US jets to Israel. That was when he wrote in his notebooks about assassinating the senator. he wrote in a manic torrent. “RFK must die. RFK must be killed. Robert F. Kennedy must be assassinated. . . . Robert F. Kennedy must be assassinated before 5 June 1968.”
Thank you for replying.
As soon as I posted my comment, I realized you might interpret it as denying your voluminous work proving the origins of SARS-CoV-2. I have no opinion about that particular aspect of this subject; I am more concerned with what are the best actions at this point for people like my wife and me.
I am not a crackpot (despite recent evidence to the contrary! I suspect you have witnessed my meltdown and erasure of whatever reputation I had here.) I don’t give a damn about Bill Gates, or anyone’s hypothesis about enslavement, or The Mark of the Devil 666, or injected tracers, or nefarious plans to control population by injecting us sheep with disguised birth control.
No, I worry and wonder about typical, stupid, political, greedy humanity pushing something…
… pushing something AS SOON AS IT BECOMES FEASIBLE TO DO SO.
People are stupid. I operate on that assumption. Even I am stupid, which is why I need to be extra careful. I am a man in the dark with a dim flashlight, and at age 61, the batteries are starting to lose power.
This is a science fiction moment in our history. (Now, I KNOW you can understand that!)
What is happening is unprecedented in American history. Do you at least agree with that? (Maybe I am wrong and you can come up with a contra example. I am poorly educated.)
Vaccines are good things. I have all of the normal ones. My wife does too. In fact, I got extra ones most Americans don’t get, as soon as I made my first trip to my wife’s homeland 20 years ago. I took whatever shots the doctor told me I should take.
A few months ago, I even bothered to renew my tetanus shot, because I work a lot outside, and I get cuts. I am not at all anti-vaccine. Not in the least.
What I am against is coercion and (Jewish) media peer pressure to put EXPERIMENTAL mRNA material into my body, which can never, ever be removed. (I insert the “Jewish” detail for your benefit, simply because our media is indeed dominated by Jews, and because maybe that will get your attention.
With respect,
Buzz
Noguchi was fired for malfeasance and serious mis management. But the investigation began because of Noguchi’s unwarranted allegations and speculations about celebrity deaths. Sometimes years after the death.
Noguchi was the medical examiner who did the autopsy. Noguchi found that Kennedy died because one of the bullets hit his neck. That’s it. That’s what a medical examiner’s job is. Determine the cause of death. Nothing else. Not interview witnesses not examine the crime scene not examine physical evidence such as the weapon.
Noguchi wasn’t there. The only bullets found in Kennedy were fired from Sirhan’s gun. He opened his publicity hound mouth too often and too much. The investigation started when he claimed Natalie Wood’s husband drowned her. Investigation uncovered malfeasance and gross mis management, not just inappropriate allegations.
They would have had to pay off several other eyewitnesses who also claimed Sirhan Sirhan shot RFK at close range. such as the photographer who took the famous photo of RFK lying on the floor of the pantry after being shot in the head.
Los Angeles Times photographer-reporter Boris Yaro was standing a few feet away.
“Kennedy backed up against the kitchen freezers as the gunman fired at him at point-blank range,” Yaro said. “He cringed and threw his hands over his face. I turned around and saw Kennedy lying on the floor. Blood seemed to be pouring out of a wound in his head or ear. It seemed as though he was trying to say something but you couldn’t hear him.”- Boris Yaro, as reported in the UPI archives from June 1968. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1968/06/05/Kennedy-shot-condition-extremely-critical/7888524140351/
It is also notable that no witness ever has reported a second gunman and the majority of those at the scene reported hearing no more than 8 shots fired. the Audio tapes confirm that 8 shots were fired.
An M60 weighs around 50 tons, so if they sent nothing but tanks it would have been a maximum of 440 tanks. But I’m sure there was lots of other stuff and not just tanks. NATO kept around 6,000 tanks in readiness for a Soviet invasion, so the assertions that we sent all of our tanks in Germany to Israel are ridiculous.
As is the assertion that US military personnel are based in Israel. The US maintains 1 small radar facility in Israel (for our own benefit, not Israel’s) and that’s it.
How about reading the autopsy report, the forensic report investigators and detectives notes the murder book and the trial transcript instead more internet nonsense?
Particularly the forensic report and trial testimony of the forensic experts.
There was another 35000 tons sent by sea. That’s what’s been admitted to. Note: I do not think that we stripped Europe bare of tanks.
The Pfizer vaccine has now been approved under the same FDA standards that apply to all other vaccines that you like so you can cut the “experimental” crap.
The mRNA does not remain in your body for long. In fact, the hardest part of perfecting the vaccine was getting it to stay in your body long enough to actually have some effect. mRNA is very delicate – just in order for the mRNA to make it to the pharmacy from the factory it has to be stored at supercold temperatures so it does not degrade. At 98.6F, it falls apart rather quickly.
Of course it can be removed and is removed – your whole immune system is designed to recognize and remove foreign biological materials from the blood stream. While (hopefully) the antibodies against the spike protein linger for a while, the mRNA itself is gone in a matter of days.
At age 61, Covid is no joke and I hope and pray that nothing bad happens to you as a result of your vaccine refusal as has happened to so many other vaccine refusers.
Note also that there are other vaccines not based on mRNA such as the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which is based on the traditional viral vaccine technology that you apparently have no problem with.
Assad is an Iranian ally so I have no idea what you are talking about. Iran, using their proxy Hezbollah, saved Assad’s ass.
Israel has remained scrupulously neutral in the Syrian civil war – their only concern is that no one violates Israeli sovereignty and anyone from either (or any) side who strays over the line by land or air is equally punished.
Yes, Kennedy was not actually on camera when he was shot.
The 300 pound NFL defensive tackle, Roosevelt Grier, couldn’t make Sirhan drop the gun. Sirhan kept pulling the trigger, emptying the revolver.
Sirhan was NOT a hypnotized zombie.
We did have “peacekeepers” stationed in the Sinai between Israel and Egypt for some years after ’73 (or was it after Camp David?).
Indeed, I remember hearing an audio recording of it all when I was 8 years old and it had just happened.
That’s right, there is no video, but there is audio, and it’s enough.
I’ve heard it since, and I can still hear, “Grab the gun! Break his thumb is you have to!” Things like that. It was a real struggle — a struggle with the one man everybody saw shooting right at Kennedy.
Geez, when a man so obviously shoots another man, right in front of a whole room full of witnesses, you would think it would be obvious. But no! People need fairy tales to comfort themselves and set things right in their little, impressionable minds.
Using propaganda is so easy for this reason. Everything aimed at exonerating little shits like Sirhan and Oswald is a lie, a lie purely for the purpose of distracting the public from knowing who really does these things.
Oswald was the assassin nobody wanted. Per John Siegenthaler, as close a friend outside the family as Bobby Kennedy had, the Attorney General sent his own men down to Dallas. They reported back, “Oswald did it.”
From Bobby’s vantage point, he couldn’t score political points off of Oswald being the assassin, same with Jackie (“It had to be a silly little communist. He couldn’t have the satisfaction of it being for civil rights.”)
I’ll repeat what I asked Ron Unz months ago: If the Deep State wanted to get rid of JFK, why not nail him on a sex scandal, a honey trap?
Funny you mentionned that, I saw on the recent archive of Infogalactic News headline.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210830144720/https://news.infogalactic.com/
Kennedy Killer Recommended For Parole.
Now Do Mark Chapman.
If Iran helped Assad that that’s great. Good for Iran. Assad is a great great and pro Christian leader. If Israel is neutral in the Syrian mess, why are you so anti Assad and anti Syria?
Everyone states Sirhan was at a greater distance than 2 feet from Kennedy. But the killing shot was from point blank range. By everyone you mean the internet idiocracy.
The killing shot, the bullet that entered Kennedy’s neck was fired from Sirhan’s gun. The other two bullets removed from Kennedy’s body were also from Sirhan’s gun. Irrefutable physical evidence.
You are mis informed unable to think can’t process information and a complete moron. Instead of wallowing in ideocracy order and read the medical forensic and police reports and read the trial transcript.
Actually, I only occasionally browse Steve’s comment-threads, so missed any sort of “temporary breakdown” you think you might have had.
As I emphasized in my Q&A, I don’t know or care anything about vaccines, just like I don’t know or care anything about the details of car engines if I just want to drive somewhere.
Since they were developed so extremely quickly and use experimental techniques, I’m sure that the Covid vaccines are much, much more dangerous than the ordinary ones, and they also seem to be much less effective than hoped. But it does sound like they greatly reduce the risk of serious illness and death from Covid, and with Delta being so extremely contagious, the benefit/risk ratio seems very large, at least 10-to-1 and maybe 100-to-1. So I got my Pfizer vaccination a couple of months ago and have had absolutely no problems. No one I know has had any vaxxing problems.
Because the agitated anti-vaxxers were starting to clog up other threads, I’ve opened up three successive vaxxing threads to accommodate their concerns, and these are now approaching 700,000 words of comments so far this month. I wouldn’t be surprised if they might be represent the largest uncensored vaxxing debate anywhere on the Internet, and they include every sort of possible anti-vaxxing argument:
https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/are-the-opponents-of-the-covid-injections-anti-vaxx-crackpots/
https://www.unz.com/announcement/covid-to-vaxx-or-not-to-vaxx/
https://www.unz.com/announcement/a-continuation-of-the-covid-vaxxing-debate/
And as it happens, this debate drew in an exceptionally erudite new commenter calling himself “Raches,” seemingly one of the most formidable intellects ever found on this website. He’s an ultra-rightwing fellow but a moderate anti-vaxxer, and has already published around 80,000 words on the subject. Since he seems to share some of your own concerns, you might want to take a look at what he and the others have said. He’s actually been spending a lot of his time ridiculing and denouncing the claims of the extreme anti-vaxxers, whom he thinks are sabotaging their own cause by their absurd beliefs.
An M60 weighs around 50 tons, so if they sent nothing but tanks it would have been a maximum of 440 tanks. But I’m sure there was lots of other stuff and not just tanks.
The Wiki article on Nickel Grass makes rather clear what much of the other stuff was. The operation was complex, involving Portugal, very careful navigation down the middle of the Med, deployment of the 7th Fleet from Gibraltar to past Crete, nonstop ferrying of combat aircraft from North America to the Middle East, and other details.
You could read it, in your spare time. Of course then you’d be aware that the notorious anti Semite Nixon had authorized a complicated and very expensive operation specifically to save Israel from Arab armies, and that might induce cognitive dissonance in a normal person.
…the assertions that we sent all of our tanks in Germany to Israel are ridiculous.
It’s just another lie from either Alden(1) or Alden(3). Most of the “historical” stuff that the Aldens post is bogus, and trying to chase down the facts becomes time consuming. Have done that a few times, I’ve come to the conclusion that the Alden account is just a time wasting troll, or maybe a BS artist on the level of a typical VFW barfly.
The US maintains 1 small radar facility in Israel (for our own benefit, not Israel’s) and that’s it.
There is also the
tripwirepeacekeeping site in Sinai that buffers Israel from Egypt, it’s officially multinational but most of the security and other functions are American. A friend of mine spent a boring year there once, as part of a US Army unit rotation; he did a lot of Skype with his wife like every other guy. Anyway, the American Army in a small way physically protects the border of Israel…spot the irony.Well, if ballistics conclusively indicate that the three bullets in RFK all came from Sirhan’s gun, that would certainly be very strong evidence.
My main reason for doubting this is that David Talbot is a highly-reputable mainstream journalist, and I find it difficult to believe that his favorably-reviewed national bestseller would have ignored such solid facts if they were correct, while none of his anti-conspiracy critics would have set him right.
Upthread someone linked the work of Mel Ayton, an associate of David Horowitz, who wrote an anti-conspiracy book on the RFK assassination and takes your position. However, his article indicates that there was actually a fierce courtroom dispute over the ballistics data that you cite, so the evidence might not be as straightforward as you suggest.
They are still there. The multinational force HQ is in Rome.
https://infogalactic.com/info/Multinational_Force_and_Observers
The US contingent is Task Force Sinai
https://infogalactic.com/info/Task_Force_Sinai
tl;dr
US troops help to guard Israel’s border.
“No one I know has had any vaxxing problems.”
Same here. Also, no one I know has had Covid problems. I have one distant cousin in his late 70s who caught it and took about a week to recover (at home). He was pretty sick but now he is fine. We’re not talking about Ebola or Plague here.
Personal choice is one thing but there is nothing that justifies mandating a drug that was rushed through production and trials, and is failing to provide long term protection, and has injured and killed thousands already.
I’m glad your vaccine experience was positive, like several of my close relatives.
The real conspiracy here is about money. From March 2020 on, this has been about an enormous transfer of money to the already wealthy from the rest of us. I’m thinking Paul Craig Roberts has been the most astute observer on your website on this subject. And I still think some input from Catherine Austin Fitts would be a great help.
Would “Wastebasket: The Journal of Unpublished Research” be better?
Johnson & Johnson is also based on mRNA. The two vaccines differ in the vehicle used for inserting the mRNA into your cells.
Piper has severely criticized those who are pushing the theory that “LBJ killed JFK”. He wrote an article dedicated to quashing such disinfo, such obvious attempt at disinfo by obvious plants (i.e. Alex Jones, Roger Stone, Jim Fetzer, etc.), trying to minimize or obfuscate any understanding of Israel’ central role in JFK’s assassination. One may add Laurent Guyénot to the list of those who are pushing the sadly disinformative theory that LBJ played a central role in the JFK assassination plot.
Johnson & Johnson is also based on mRNA.
No, it is not. It is an andenovector vaccine.
Incorrect. Moderna is also an mRNA vaccine but J&J is based on a crippled adenovirus (cold virus).
https://www.mayoclinic.org/johnson-johnson-adenovirus-vaccine-explained/vid-20510091
I know someone who had Covid and died from it. Now the guy was 100 years old (without exaggeration) but I think that he still would have had a couple of years left in him if it wasn’t for the ‘rona.
Of the 615,000 people who have died of Covid in the US, around 30,000 have been younger than 50 and 485,000 have been over 65. A total of 361 under 17’s have died (and I’d bet that most of those had serious comorbidities including morbid obesity. A healthy 17 year old with normal weight is more likely to get hit by lightning than to die of Covid.) It’s a fatal disease mainly for older people and the older you are, the more fatal it is.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/
tl;dr
400 US troops are stationed in Egypt. There have been zero combat casualties in 40 years. They are safer there than if they were stationed in Detroit. Ho hum.
The 9/11 attackers were motivated by hatred of American freedom, just as the Afghans now arriving are motivated by love of it.
Whether the idiotcracy believes Sirhan was in a position to make the fatal neck shot or not, the bullet that killed victim came from Sirhan’s gun . The gun with Sirhan’s fingerprints that was held by Sirhan.
You must have read that grandiose self aggrandizing book Noguchi wrote after he was forced to resign or be fired. He was forced to resign for gross mismanagement and making all sorts of false allegations about celebrity deaths in Los Angels. Gross violation of medical confidentiality for one thing.
Noguchi preformed the autopsy and determined homicide. He determined which bullet wound killed Kennedy. That’s all, nothing else.
He wasn’t a witness. He wasn’t a detective. He wasn’t a forensic expert. He didn’t examine the gun. He didn’t determine that the bullets dug out of Kennedy were fired from Sirhan’s gun. He didn’t do fingerprint match.
All he did was determine cause of death and dug out the bullets that killed Kennedy.
And Noguchi falsely claimed that Sirhan didn’t shoot Kennedy 5 years after Kennedy’s death after Noguchi was fired for making false statement about celebrity deaths.
Instead of reading conspiracy theories read the original documents. They’re public record. The bullets that hit Kennedy came from Sirhan’s gun.
Now I suppose that you’ll claim another conspirator grabbed the gun from Sirhan’s hand, shot Kennedy and gave it back to Sirhan. Wearing gloves so as to leave no fingerprints.
Noguchi, as Alden wrote, was fired for incompetence. Wecht thinks a nameless, shadowy network runs the country. He forms an opinion before he sees the evidence and no matter what it is.
You sound like you’re from Alabama.
Of the 615,000 people who have died of Covid in the US, around 30,000 have been younger than 50 and 485,000 have been over 65.
How many were vaccinated? It is a number greater than zero.
A healthy 17 year old with normal weight is more likely to get hit by lightning than to die of Covid.
This is true. Also, a healthy 17 year old with normal weight is more likely to die from a reaction to a vaccine than from COVID-19.
400 US troops are stationed in Egypt. There have been zero combat casualties in 40 years. They are safer there than if they were stationed in Detroit. Ho hum.
So? They are still protecting the border of Israel. Do you not see any irony?
I’m sure there was a fierce dispute about the ballistics evidence. Classic some other dude did it defense. Was probably the best defense possible. Throw everything at the physical evidence and hope it raises some doubt in just one juror.
I didn’t read the trial transcript. But copies were floating around the SF DA and public defender’s offices and guys who did read it concluded the ballistics proved the 3 bullets that hit Kennedy came from Sirhan’s gun.
Sirhan had a strong motive; revenge for what the Israelis did to his family. Opportunity; even the most insane Sirhan didn’t do it idiots don’t deny he was in the room. Means; the bullets came from his gun and he had a car or took a bus got to the hotel found the event and managed to follow Kennedy into the kitchen.
Why would Israel kill him years after he stopped harassing AIPAC and promised so much military aide to Israel?
Here’s a thought. The thousands of books written about the 2 Kennedy killings were all subsidized by the Kennedy’s themselves to keep the family in the public eye till the next generation grew up.
Another thought about John Kennedy’s Assassination. It was staged by the Kennedy’s themselves. The 64 election was coming. The economy was in fine shape. But Kennedy’s polls were going down fast. Bay of Pigs and building if the Berlin Wall were foreign policy disasters. And Kennedy claimed to be a more ferocious anti Russian cold warrior than his opponents.
Kennedy only won by about 100K voted after Daly found enough Chicago votes at 3AM to give the Illinois electoral votes to Kennedy.
The public was getting tired of his wife’s wardrobe and his cute kids. What’s the president doing while wife is modeling clothes?
Not a whole lot.
How to win the next election . An attempted assassination with his lady wife in her pretty pink suit by his side. But a bullet from somebody’s gun killed him.
Thousands of books thousands of theories.
The overwhelming thing about the president Kennedy assassination is the reaction of the liberals when one of their own, a self proclaimed communist who’d actually lived in Russia murdered the great liberal hero.
Another thought. Communist liar Mark Levin aka Lane and the rest of the commie liars who blamed everyone but Oswald were a Moscow CPUSA directed effort to make the idiots forget Oswald was a communist who had defected to Moscow.
Mark Levin aka Lane was Jim Jones and People’s Temple lawyer and survived the Jamestown massacre Unlike more than 900 other people.
From writing the first President Kennedy was killed by the FBI CIA KKK Mafia cattle ranchers Dallas police department , oil companies , steel mill companies , the Women’s Club and Chamber of Congress of Dallas and the state government of Texas, to presiding over the Jonestown massacre Mark Lane was a subversive CPUSA operative.
Historical fiction is my favorite fiction genre. And I have enjoyed The Who Killed Kennedy novels very much.
David, I also think that a “nameless, shadowy network” runs the country, as do many others. Including now deceased Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty, who wrote two excellent books on that very subject. And no, I am NOT from Alabama; I am from northern Illinois (Rockford), where I worked as an industrial electrician for over 40 years.
I no longer vote because I feel that the “president” of the United States is merely a “puppet,” acting on behalf of that very “nameless, shadowy network.” If the president actually tried to make things better for the average American (and the world), they would simply KILL HIM, as they did with John F. Kennedy, Robert F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcolm X, Olaf Palme (Sweden), Dag Hammarskjöld (Sweden), Jimmy Hoffa (Teamsters Union) and Walter Reuther (United Auto Workers Union).
George Carlin made a short video some time ago which explains EXACTLY what the situation is in the United States and every word of it is the absolute truth –
I really need to be more mindful of saving links. I read that not even one minor child has died who didn’t have at least one comorbidity but I can’t tell you where I saw it.
You are incorrect. From your own link:
The adenovirus is the vector (“Trojan horse”) that delivers the message to your cells to then produce the spike protein. In the case of Pfizer and Moderna, the vector is a lipid membrane.
Indeed, the adenovirus is the vector that delivers the mRNA to the cells to produce the spike protein. The vaccine is still based on mRNA.
The term ‘Palestinian’ itself has evolved. Pre-1948, ‘Palestinian’ would have referred to the Jewish European immigrants to Palestine. Arabs were south Syrians, or simply Arabs. If you called an Arab ‘Palestinian’ in those days he would have been enraged.
Well, since this thread is already a little off-topic, I might as well repeat a comment of mine from a few days ago:
Because the man is a butcher?
Perhaps 1% . Something like 99% of the deaths were among the unvaccinated.
Although the risk of Covid to such a person is very small, I believe the risk of the vaccine is even smaller. So far a total of 3 blood clot deaths have been firmly linked to the J&J vaccine. Although thousands of others have died AFTER receiving the vaccine, these deaths don’t seem to have been caused by the vaccine according to the FDA and the CDC.
If you moved those 400 troops to the 2,000 mile long US/Mexico border I don’t think it would make any difference at 1 soldier for every 5 miles of border.
Anyway, the problem at the border is a political problem, not a military problem. If the political will existed, the border could be sealed but it doesn’t exist (enough) so it can’t.
I’m quite different year from year and have grown leaps and bounds at least every few.
Guilt or perhaps shame may spur someone on, but it is hardly necessary.
Are you really the same person you were 29 years ago?
Hey idiot (since you want to fling pejoratively – look it up), here’s something you obviously don’t know:
From the moment his brother was pronounced dead, RFK’s authority as Attorney General evaporated with his political enemies within the Washington national security state, not the least of whom were J. Edgar Hoover and (now president) Lyndon Baines Johnson.
RFK didn’t know who did it, but the possibility that Hoover and Johnson were in on it and were now in position to cut him off from ever finding the truth, meant he had to tread very, very carefully.
And that is exactly what the available information indicates he did do for the remaining five years of his life.
Only until he was secure in the White House would he be assured that he could defeat the coalition of forces responsible for his brother’s murder.
The J&J vaccine does not use mRNA. I didn’t say anything that was incorrect.
Yes. The idea that you are “somebody else” is bullshit to escape punishment. If someone said “I have located some funds from 29 year ago that belonged to you,” would you say, “No, I can’t take that money because I am not the same person”?
Thanks for the comic relief.
Paul Schrade was shot in the head by Sirhan and had no memory of hearing any shots. He was rendered unconscious. He never witnessed a second gunman and has zero evidence of a second gunman.
4 other eyewitnesses claim they saw Sirhan Sirhan shoot RFK at close range, including the photographer Boris Yaro who took the iconic photo of RFT after he was shot.
“The gunman began firing at point blank-range. Senator Kennedy didn’t have a chance”-Boris Yaro recounted in a June 1968 article for the Times.
https://www.latimes.com/visuals/photography/la-me-fw-archives-boris-yaro-covers-the-assassination-of-robert-kenedy-20180424-htmlstory.html
I guess it’s basically understood now that this is what happened to Huey Long ie. Carl Weiss took a swing at him, and as he was being shot to death by Huey’s bodyguards, a stray bullet took out the boss.
During the 1969 Trial of Sirhan his lawyers did not dispute the physical evidence.
That Sirhan Sirhan murdered RFK was beyond dispute- A roomful of witnesses saw him do it. He confessed to the police and his notebooks demonstrated he planned to kill RFK. He attempted to plead guilty but the Judge rejected his plea because he wanted a trial.
The defense strategy was to prove His mental insufficiency after his plea of guilty was rejected by the judge. The defense tried to prove the killing was a spontaneous act of a deranged mind. They made no attempt to refute the ballistic evidence. They even allowed Sirhan to take the stand and under oath he admitted to killing RFK
Trial transcripts from 1969 indicate his own lawyer, Grant Cooper, questioned him on the stand.
Cooper: “did you shoot Robert F. Kennedy ?”
Sirhan answered: “Yes sir”
Cooper: “do you doubt your shot him?”
Sirhan: “No sir, I don’t “
https://www.encyclopedia.com/law/law-magazines/sirhan-bishara-sirhan-trial-1969
Thank you. I remember that comment, and it is a good one.
My concern was that “fools rush in,” but those Masters of the Universe at Goldman Sachs are not fools. (I’ve met a couple in the line of work. If anything, they were demanding.) Furthermore, their bosses would not knowingly require them to do something that didn’t fit into a proper risk/return formula (for Goldman and/or the bosses at the very least.)
You have made a very good point, and you now have me considering it. Ah, this dialectic process you facilitate…
The Operation Nickel Grass concerns only shipments from the US but not from Germany. Sending tanks from Germany would make sense. America had more tanks in Germany than anywhere. And it wa much closer to Israel. This NYT article indicates that some shipment was attempted via Israeli ship in Germany but was derailed by German government’s objection:
Is it possible that transport planes from American military bases in Germany not being under German jurisdiction delivered tanks to Israel as Alden claimed? Why does it seem there is still a cover up about what the US did to help Israel in the Yom Kippur War?
We allow people to inherit money but we don’t have them inherit guilt.
Yes, I wonder why.
By that logic it would be immoral to imprison someone for even one year, since they are a “different person” by then. Maybe even a single day’s imprisonment would be immoral since the person could have changed in that time. Actually our bodies replace 300 billion cells per day, so is it fair to punish those new cells for the crimes of the old ones?
Well, if you’re recruiting a patsy/distraction, it makes sense to find one with at least a remotely plausible motive, and to position him in the room. The question is the disputed ballistics evidence, and I’ll be interested in what that book I just ordered says about it.
If he reached the White House, RFK was planning to finally track down and punish his brother’s killers, and that was the obvious motive, so the two assassinations were very likely by the same group of conspirators.
In the 2008 edition of Oswald and the CIA, Prof. John Newman, who had spent 20 years in Military Intelligence, analyzed the bureaucratic details of the CIA files on Oswald, and firmly concluded that the theory that he was a Communist or connected with the Soviets was a false trail put out by Angleton to divert suspicion as part of the cover-up, and I found his analysis quite persuasive.
As for Lane, he eventually became very close and friendly with the ultra-rightwing Liberty Lobby people, and pretty much endorsed Michael Collins Piper’s theory that the Israeli Mossad was behind the JFK assassination. So I’m not sure that Lane was really that hardcore a “Communist.” Prof. Newman’s very detailed analysis seems to strongly support what Piper had suggested 15-odd years earlier.
I didn’t day anything about “immoral” or “fair” and I didn’t draw a hard and fast rule.
You’ve cited nothing that backs up your contention. Absolutely nothing. There were probably thousands of American tanks in Europe in 1973. It’s highly unlikely they all would have been sent to Israel or even that the IDF could have used that many.
Yes, and I read the Wikipedia article on Nickel Grass that somebody linked to – and you know something – it didn’t say we shipped all our tanks to Israel. Not that I’m in the habit of believing Wikipedia. But I’m even less in the habit of believing you, you stupid, silly woman.
We shipped some tanks to Israel in 1973. How many we shipped appears to be either still classified or the kind of thing that isn’t interesting for unknown reasons.
At the 1969 trial it was undisputed that Sirhan Sirhan fired the shot that killed RFK.
The defense never disputed the ballistic evidence at his Trial in 1969. The evidence also established conclusively that he shot the victims of the assault counts. The principal defense relied upon by defendant was that of diminished capacity. Extensive evidence was presented of the circumstances surrounding the shootings and of defendant’s mental condition.
Sirhan testifying on his own behalf, admitted having shot Kennedy. He stated “I killed Robert Kennedy willfully, premeditatively, with twenty years of malice aforethought”
Doctors hired by his lawyers testified that defendant was a paranoid schizophrenic, and, according to Dr. Schorr, defendant went into a dissociate state before the shooting. Doctors Richardson and Schorr also agreed with the psychiatrists that defendant lacked the capacity to maturely and meaningfully reflect upon the gravity of his contemplated act of murder.
In rebuttal the prosecution called to the stand Seymour Pollack, M.D.
Dr. Pollack testified: Defendant was not ‘clinically psychotic,’ and there was insufficient proof of schizophrenia. He further testified that ‘I believe the assassination of Senator Robert Kennedy was triggered by political reasons ; that Sirhan focused on Senator Robert Kennedy as an individual who should die, not only because of the Kennedy promise to give Israel the jet bombers that would cause death to thousands of Arabs, but also because Sirhan wanted the world to see how strongly our United States policy was in the pro-Israel-anti-Arab movement, and ‘Sirhan saw himself as a defender of the Arab cause and, as an individual who through this act would bring world attention to the Arab plight and also . . . materialize his fantasy of success.’ “As an Arab he felt that it was his duty, that he would be looked up to by the Arab world and that he would be considered a hero.”-
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-supreme-court/1826802.html
I think it was aircraft that they needed the most, after unexpectedly losing a bunch to Soviet SAMs in Syria. They got the F4s RFK had promised a few years late.
Oswald’s brother from a Frontline interview:
“When Lee got back from Russia, the way he talked about the Russian system, he didn’t talk about it politically, in the sense that he was wrapped up in communism or Marxism. He was making fun of how inept they were, and he was making fun of them all the time. …
He wasn’t political. He really wasn’t. I say that in all honesty, because he tried to become what he needed to be to achieve his immediate objectives; i.e., he needed to be a Marxist and accept the Russians [to] get the experience in Russia. When he returned to the United States, he didn’t want to be a Russian. He wanted to be an American, to be accepted by the American society, and so wherever he was … he wanted to be accepted. He wasn’t political. He was what’s convenient to be.”
There’s no evidence that LHO was a committed communist, or indeed, committed to anything other than his morbid fantasy life.
He was a disturbed young man due to his troubled upbringing and, quite possibly, sexual abuse/grooming at the hands of the likes of David Ferrie.
His worldview was formed by paperback spy novels and the t.v. show “I led three lives,” about an American man who pretends to be a communist while reporting to the FBI. He fantasized about being a spook and later insinuated himself into a handful of spook networks, who bounced him around for a few years until they figured out what use could be made of him.
Are you really the same person you were 29 years ago?
I am now a Prince in rural Nigeria, and need your help to conclude financing for a Christian church and school.
I’m sure you can help me. Please, start with your bank account numbers…
15 Year Old Girl Troll
I think it was aircraft that they needed the most, after unexpectedly losing a bunch to Soviet SAMs in Syria.
Yes, because the IAF was too, too
arrogantsmart to find out what the USAF Wild Weasel was for, and take some advice.We shipped some tanks to them. Not all that we had in Europe.
But I’d like to know what the percentage was. But none of the ten sources I checked contain any counts of how many US tanks were sent to Israel. Most sources contain total tonnage of all types of material, but I don’t know much about how to interpret that.
The same FDA that banned Laetrile and approved NutraSweet?
☮
To the end of his life, Robert Oswald always said, “Lee did it.”
Lee Oswald was the last man any intelligence agency would use.
We shipped some tanks to Israel in 1973.
Some, and probably some from Western Europe. The C5-A really proved itself. But not all the US armor in NATO, obviously.
This isn’t the first time that an Alden has experienced difficulty with the difference between the words “some” and “all”. Not even close to the first time.
The Israelis lost about 1000 tanks in the war, although about half of these were eventually repaired and returned to duty. So during the war it seems very unlikely the Israelis could have possibly been given more than 1000 tanks and were probably given far fewer. Any amount greater would have been useless – no trained crews, no support, no formations for them to be integrated into. That was certainly not all of our tanks.
Far more critical would have been the ammunition. I did read that the Israelis were running low.
On the contrary, I think Oswald is exactly the type of character who would be useful as a “patsy” or for low-level ops: militarily trained, damaged, compromised (by the sexual perverts around David Ferrie), grandiose and narcissistic (so that he thinks he’s capable of more than he really is, all the better to send him on foolhardy/suicidal errands), eager to realize his fantasy of being a “spy” or in some other way important (and thus easily manipulated).
He was also, as the writings he left behind and his appearance on a radio debate in New Orleans, August, 1963, indicate, of fair intelligence but his potential for intellectual achievement was thwarted by dyslexia. Secret organizations often recruit these gifted but for one reason or another underachieving young persons. Henry Hill, the mobster of “GoodFellas” fame, for example, was smart but dyslexic. Finding school irksome as a boy, he took to hanging out in the streets, where he was scooped up by neighborhood hoodlums.
As for whether Lee “did it,” I’ve always been of the opinion that Oswald fired his gun that day, whether he was the only shooter or not. Why else would he have picked it up that morning at the Paine house?
“David In TN” – I am not going to attempt to argue with you. Arguing serves no useful purpose. I do have a couple of incidental comments to make, though…
A person has a very difficult time knowing something, when that person’s livelihood (or his life) depends on that person NOT KNOWING IT…
And, “Don’t bother me with the facts; my mind’s made up!” (thanks to the late Stanton Friedman)
That is the Jewish M.O. to a tee. Hijack any worthy cause, turn it away from what it originally intended – we just want people to be treated fairly – bring in all sorts of theories to befuddle masses, then get away with murder while pretending to be the “only” victims. I live among high achieving Chinese people. They just want to be left alone, but not the Jews, they have to teach the world how to live. Bunch of schizos. Like for example in this book , where after doing their darnest to bring down Assad one of their operatives write about it, sans their own involvement in it. Chutzpah with the hide of rhino. Praised not unexpectedly by the same article for hire Brookings crowd who told us that Ghani was doing all right in Afghanistan.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/capsule-review/2021-04-20/syrian-requiem-civil-war-and-its-aftermath
50 years is an unnatural length of time to keep a man in prison. When the British were planning to do away with the death penalty in the 70s, saying it would be replaced by lengthy prison sentences, some in the prison service wrote that keeping a man in prison for 25 years is worse that dealing out the death penalty.
The case is that for a murder, the death penalty is the punishment. Death pays all debts. But if you are going to keep a man in prison for 50 years, that is already sufficiently vindictive, without veering into the Jewish rage for “infinite justice”.
Bashir Assad came back from London to replace his brother who had died. He had no political ambitions. And in 2011 he was all about promising reform. Now it may not have satisfied the high standards that Jews set for others, but it was a start. When the “colour revolution” people turned that into an exercise in overthrowing the regime that was a bridge too far, and the “regime” had to protect itself. There could be any number of reasons why the “regime” had to protect itself, but surely the great humanitarians in this – the Saudis and the Israelis – were not into the business of reforming the Arab world into something representative of what the Arabs desired. The Israeli angle was to keep the Golan Heights and limit the Hizballah, the Saudis to keep Iranian influence under control. So everybody for his reason own turned Syria into a battleground. I well recall a Jewish person telling me that “Syria was no more”. The Israelis were complicit in the butchery that engulfed Syria.
I haste impression that you lived and worked in or near San Francisco. Is it possible that I was not wrong some time ago?
You often say interesting things even if they don’t strike me as 100% right.
I preface my first comment/question by referring to a Reform rabbi friend of mine who, like his wife, is a lover of Israel but the recognisable product of old fashioned upper middle class private education at the leasing Church of England schools. I re.ember once quoting Greg Cochran to him as quoting an Alexandria Jew as saying “We may not be as smart but at least we’re not a lot of pooftahs like those Greeks”. My friend replied with a small sigh “I wish”.
It would be interesting to work out why there was such a concentration of Jewish organisation in the gay cause in America because it simply wasn’t what happened in Australia. The way was led in the 1970s by Liberal (right of centre) and Labor state Premiers who had been to top private schools with only one (whose state had a gay Chief Justice) not clearly heterosexual. Like me they were of the school that said “just font do it in the street and frighten the horses”. Likewise, we had our rabid right-to-lifers, mostly Catholuc, but it didn’t involve Jewish politicking to get abortion legalised somewhat later. The less educated states with more ‘deplorables” did I think take a bit longer.
Rich educated Jews very often are conscious of the noblesse oblige duties of their class beyond doing well while doing good and being admitted for say (an example I noted 35 years ago) giving masses of tax deductible Picasso to both NY and LA museums. One rather beautiful granddaughter of a Russian Jewish immigrant who had made a great fortune in the 20s I remember telling me about what she was trying to do for Aboriginal education. A cousin, who had topped the best Law School, represented the Scientologists in a commission of inquiry in a way that made me think he must be grinding his teeth but reminding himself that everybody should be adequately represented. However that was, when he became a QC he won the famous Mabo case which overturned 150 years of assumed law to allow for Aborigines to claim millions of acres of land (tough on those who only had fixed term leaseholds in states like Queensland: where freehold had been granted by the Crown native title was extinguished). His junior counsel has a double barrelled Irish-Jewish name! I never found the opportunity, before he died quite young to ask him what he felt about similarly disposed people in Palestine. I don’t think he would have regarded as rude or unfair for me to suppose he was doing his best for the only dispossed people he had a realistic chance of helping. I think he could have had the same kind of instinct to help aborogines as, when it is instinctual and not Machiavellian, many empathetic Jews have for all refugees. (My rabbi friend explained something like that when he referred to it being said at Passover “remember you were slaves in the land of Egypt”. Having read ip my Septuagint a bit more since then I must remember to ask him what Jews should make of such an unpleasant God who could be so cruel to ordinary Egyptians and launch a genocidal psychopath across the Sinai to everlasting applause even by lunatic Christians. Which brings me back to white Christian America which, from an educated Australian’s point of view is utterly primitive. Australian Christianity dated from the Enlightenment so never had much of America’s nuttiness (though wedding our best). I suspect that the time had come for homosexuality to be decriminalised but only Jews felt free to lead the way in the US unlike Australia (and England).
I did recently get round to tackling my rabbi friend with a tease about the possibility of there being an Abraham’s God that I had already tried out on a Cardinal. A he could say was that (understanding?) God was a work in progress.
I aspire to live as joyfully as some of my totally compos mentis older friends in their nineties but I cannot get sense from many old people about death (I think you are probably a death person; i.e. one who will die rather than pass away). One old friend who was a QC and Chairman of a major multinational company before being Chancellor of a decent University till shortly before he died was visited in his last days by the Anglican vicar who conducted the funeral service and was said by his most sensible son to have believed in God (and thus perhaps in afterlife ) but a female friend who went to lunch with him regularly was pretty sure he did not. How can one? I have a teasing version which involves storing the trillions of trillions of gigabytes of neural suff that is our lifelong minds in the 25,,% of our universe which is Dark Matter.That little speed of light problem that you instantly raise in objection is not solved bu Quantum Entanglement but by the fact that we are already in contact with Dark Matter if theory is correct. It streams through us constantly. 😎
Thanks Steve for helping me give less weight to Ron’s theory that Lee Harvey Oswald was not the sole gunman in 1963. Although the possibilities apparently left open only included involvement of CIA or FBI with Mossad** it did seem to me that American Pravda threads left open the idea that the “Deep State” had to get rid of RFK to stop him reopening investigation of his brother’s death. You have I think closed that off for me as to 95.5%, and I am grateful.
** i couldn’t imagine a Cabinet with Abba Eban in it having anything to do with JFK’s murder, even if JFK was proving seriously difficult, but I did get round to believing that between Ben Girton, almost at retirement, and the murderous Yitzhak Shamir it judt might have been cooked up.
No, stupid, Bobby could have gone to the press and gotten massive public support for his own investigation.
What Bobby didn’t want known was the plots to kill Castro, which he had directed.