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From the UN’s World Population Prospects 2022:
It is estimated that ten countries experienced a net outflow of more than 1 million migrants between 2010 and 2021. In many of these countries, these outflows were due to temporary labour movements, such as for Pakistan (net outflow of -16.5 million during 2010-2021), India (-3.5 million), Bangladesh (-2.9 million), Nepal (-1.6 million) and Sri Lanka (-1 million). In other countries, including Syrian Arab Republic (-4.6 million), Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of) (-4.8 million), and Myanmar (-1 million), insecurity and conflicts have driven the net outflow of migrants over the decade.
If true, that 16.5 million net outflow from Pakistan over the last dozen years is a huge number. (But the Wikipedia article on Overseas Pakistanis claims there are only 8.8 million in total abroad.)
Nonetheless, the UN predicts Pakistan will grow from 234 million in 2022 to 366 million in 2050.
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To give a sense of comparison and proportion, Islamabad is Denver, and the Colorado river is the Indus. Just picture 366 million living off the Colorado from Denver to gulf of California, with arable settlement possible only withing 10 miles or so, on either side of the Colorado.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m still surprised that a polio outbreak hasn’t happened in London due to the sheer scale of movement of Pathans from Northern Pakistan and there over so many years. Even worse they double down with mass migration from Nigeria (That has recently gifted London the title of capital of the monkeypox pandemic) the only other place with endemic polio.
But the whole deep extended families and clans tends to keep the drip running harder in terms of diasporas, particularly given the practice of importing brides from the old country to sure up ethnocentrism and connection to the clan back home with 2nd or 3rd generations.
Most dysfunctional community IMHO tend to be the Mirpuris from Pakistani Kashmir who you find in West Yorkshire and Lancashire.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/deportation-battles-and-forgotten-victims-24350061I bet he was a really effective welfare rights officer if you were one of his people.
https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/20250328.eight-rapists-jailed-total-90-years-degrading-sexual-abuse-teenage-girl-keighley/Replies: @Fidelios Automata
An opportunity to plug David Goodhart's book: The British Dream: Successes and Failures of Post-war Immigration (2013) which explained a lot to me including the difference between Pakistani small village emigration and Indian big city, educated, English speaking emigration.
And so I have to mention his really great idea in his next book: The Road to Somewhere: The Populist Revolt and the Future of Politics (2017)
Somewheres vs Anywheres - the uneducated based in a particular village town or city and the educated richer Anywheres, citizens of the world.
Economically Liberal (tax and spend) but Socially conservative (can define a woman)
vs Economic conservatives (low tax for me) and Socially Liberal.
It is The way to understand Trump, Brexit and most disputes within a nation.Replies: @S
Interesting Gates focused his efforts in the Third World on oral polio vax, known to cause paralysis and vax strain disease, instead of clean water. Almost like he has another agenda entirely.Replies: @Rob
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/poliovirus-detected-in-sewage-from-north-and-east-london
Surely they're shoring it up?Just so this isn't pure Grammar Nazi can anybody tell me why we shouldn't loose the Jewocons on starting a nuclear war between India and Pakistan?
Does anybody (if not downwind) see any downside at all?
OT
IN SOVIET EUROPE
THE BOER KILLS YOU
!!!!!!!!!!!!!Replies: @Daniel H
Oh, yeah, and I might add, at the gulf, just imagine an oozing city with the sprawl and twice the population of Los Angeles, but with 5 times the chaos and dysfunction. That is Pakistan. This is Matthew Yglesias’s fondest wish. And he has a sporting chance of achieving it.
V.S. Naipaul – Among The Believers (1981)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Among_the_Believers
(Which explains the Pakistanis I saw in Helsinki)
But the whole deep extended families and clans tends to keep the drip running harder in terms of diasporas, particularly given the practice of importing brides from the old country to sure up ethnocentrism and connection to the clan back home with 2nd or 3rd generations.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @AndrewR, @michael droy, @Beagle, @Reg Cæsar, @James N. Kennett, @Bill Jones
The London Asian community (Spitalfields and points east) tend to be Bangladeshi rather than Pakistani.
Most dysfunctional community IMHO tend to be the Mirpuris from Pakistani Kashmir who you find in West Yorkshire and Lancashire.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/deportation-battles-and-forgotten-victims-24350061
I bet he was a really effective welfare rights officer if you were one of his people.
https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/20250328.eight-rapists-jailed-total-90-years-degrading-sexual-abuse-teenage-girl-keighley/
OT How many of those Pakistanis are engineers?
A German —
The failure of a single power cable last Sunday caused Stuttgart Hbf, one of Germany’s largest train stations, to shut down for 3 days and counting. According to the DB press secretary “dozens of technicians” are “working on the problem” and “requesting replacement parts”. 10s of Thousands of travelers haven been delayed or stranded in and around Stuttgart, with no release in sight. The police have commended them for their “peaceful” behavior so far.
Germany’s descent into 3rd world anarchy is accelerating dramatically. The politicians are shutting down the last remaining Nuclear power plants soon, Putler is stopping the gas supply through NS1, during afternoons all the cities are abuzz with bands or roving refugees on social benefits causing havoc while Germans are at wörk, infrastructure is crumbling as there are no parts left and no Germans left to do the maintenance – sadly, the millions migrants weren’t doctors and engineers after all.
It is quite simply: over.
A Russian —
not yet, wait for the autumn and winter
But the whole deep extended families and clans tends to keep the drip running harder in terms of diasporas, particularly given the practice of importing brides from the old country to sure up ethnocentrism and connection to the clan back home with 2nd or 3rd generations.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @AndrewR, @michael droy, @Beagle, @Reg Cæsar, @James N. Kennett, @Bill Jones
Raising a child in the UK will inevitably result in them absorbing a large part of the British culture, for better or worse. The Amish and gypsies are probably the only groups in the west who are really able to avoid being absorbed into the broader cultures.
The young Pakistani/Bangla men lead a double existence - drugs/alcohol/cars and also the mosque on Friday. Any offence to the prophet and they're on the streets. Bang the "white meat" and marry a girl from home.Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
Just the people we need to lead us into 21st and a half century.
Like Daffy Duck from Duck Dodgers, expect not funny.
Odd estimate that doesn’t include Ukraine – which had some 7m emigrants between 2014 & 2021 (and another 7m since). Only 20% of the country is affected by conflict even now.
GDP per head at PPP is $8699 (2017) but a lot of that is extracted by Oligarchs (and Washington!).
That is 57% higher than Pakistan, but it is a lot easier to get to the EU from Ukraine with next door Poland having GDP (PPP) per head of $29, 924, which is 3.4 times as much.
So don’t let the media confuse you – this Ukrainian emigration is very largely economic, with the current situation simply accelerating plans to move and take advantage of Europe’s open doors (much like the Merkel invitation to immigrants a few years ago). Conscription of young men though is an issue – if I was a mother in safe W Ukraine I’d want my husband and sons out of the country.
A friend in Poland had a pair of alternating Ukrainian cleaners. Each could spend 3 months working in Poland before returning to Ukraine to apply for a new work permit. It worked out nicely but although the bulk of 2 families income came from the one set of cleaning jobs, it counted as at most 1 Ukrainian working abroad.
Now there are 2 families in Poland – it was a very easy move to make.
of Spain. You’re off by roughly $11,000. Poland’s economy has been
growing at an astonishing rate since 1989 (collapse of Communism).Replies: @anonymous
But the whole deep extended families and clans tends to keep the drip running harder in terms of diasporas, particularly given the practice of importing brides from the old country to sure up ethnocentrism and connection to the clan back home with 2nd or 3rd generations.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @AndrewR, @michael droy, @Beagle, @Reg Cæsar, @James N. Kennett, @Bill Jones
Most Pakistani immigrants here in Britain are in the midlands and northern England rather than London, and Polio vaccine rates in UK are high (well except for the past 18 months for obvious reasons). But I certainly take your point about extended families and clans. My impression though is that is a lot harder to convince young Pakistanis to marry an unknown from home than it used to be 20-30 years.
An opportunity to plug David Goodhart’s book: The British Dream: Successes and Failures of Post-war Immigration (2013) which explained a lot to me including the difference between Pakistani small village emigration and Indian big city, educated, English speaking emigration.
And so I have to mention his really great idea in his next book: The Road to Somewhere: The Populist Revolt and the Future of Politics (2017)
Somewheres vs Anywheres – the uneducated based in a particular village town or city and the educated richer Anywheres, citizens of the world.
Economically Liberal (tax and spend) but Socially conservative (can define a woman)
vs Economic conservatives (low tax for me) and Socially Liberal.
It is The way to understand Trump, Brexit and most disputes within a nation.
Even in a place like Beijing with a small population of foreign residents there was a relatively sizable community. In Beijing before the pandemic there were a few thousand Pakistanis and three restaurants.
The US has tended to get the Pakistanis who were from India before the partition, moved to Pakistan and said get me out and had the brains to get here. Thus the glut of Pakistani anesthesiologists in Oak Brook IL. The Pakistanis here tend to out-marry (if they can pull a blonde all the better).
England appears to have gotten hillmen out of Kim.
That's exactly the way it went down for my family.Replies: @Hodag
In America, the first wave of Pakistani migrants was mostly students.Replies: @AnotherDad, @Anonymous
There’s a very large number of migrant laborers from India and Pakistan in the Persian Gulf countries, and also in Singapore in South East Asia.
In both locations, they work as contract laborers on limited term contracts and visas, in specific jobs, for specific employers, who are responsible for them. They are typically housed in work camps, and secluded from the general population, with severely limited ability to roam around on their days off, and mingle.
The net outflow number for Pakistan seems quite large, about 20% of its male population at the start of that period, 2011.
OT:
Did I miss a posting about Sri Lanka? The videos of insurrection and mansion burning are pretty awesome. I wonder if we’ll see a wave of copycat revolts in other third world nations.
One is reminded that Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh, among other countries, are now hitting the Malthusian Catastrophe.
Forget the lies about apocalyptic global famine: what Malthus DESCRIBED is that when people have the physical maximum number of children they possibly can, the resulting exponential growth soon consumes all resources and the ability of real flesh-and-blood humans to develop new resources and industrial infrastructure. At that point you don’t get famine (mostly) – you get chromic malnutrition, and the standard of living is driven down to the bare minimum of subsistence (you can’t do worse!) and population growth slows.
Note also: every million people escaping from Pakistan does not decrease the population there, because they just free up more resources for that many more people to be conceived and survive to adulthood. And every million Pakistanis that make it to a first-world country increase the population there by a minimum of 2-3 million, because of demographic momentum.
Next year India will pass China in population:
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/07/11/india-on-course-to-overtake-china-as-worlds-most-populous-country-un.html
Some anti-CCP Chinese claim it is already well below India and that CCP population stats are faked. I believe this claim, but in a 60/40 kind of way.
Get back to where you once belonged.
Cue: Get Back by The Beatles
What every country, especially the USA needs is to cease the import of extended family members.
Forget the humanitarian aspect, think of the receiving nation’s future.
Just say: “Hell no, let the nation’s future belong to the natural heirs, it’s children.”
Decades of sitting in NFL Stadiums and SEC Football Stadiums and tolerating mass non-white LEGAL Immigration….I have spent many hours thinking about this…and I still don’t get…
21 years after 9/11 and Pakistani “American” Immigration Lawyers….taunt on the internet….White Males about their upcoming demographic demise…Replies: @Anonymous
That’s right. 150. He hasn’t even gotten to ask all of his siblings. When Canadians voted for their policy, they probably didn’t think of families with fifteen children.
More Gypsies!
Pakistan has won 0 medals at the last 4 Summer Olympics.
In both locations, they work as contract laborers on limited term contracts and visas, in specific jobs, for specific employers, who are responsible for them. They are typically housed in work camps, and secluded from the general population, with severely limited ability to roam around on their days off, and mingle.
The net outflow number for Pakistan seems quite large, about 20% of its male population at the start of that period, 2011.Replies: @Altai, @nebulafox
It’s so high they even moved the IPL matches there during covid and it’s the new HQ for world cricket despite Emiratis possessing no interest in the sport. They held the cricket world cup in 2021.
At this point if they were taken as a group South Asians are by far the largest group in Dubai.
They are also making inroads beyond the West in places like South Korea which has suffered the most immigration of all kinds of any of the wealthy North East Asian countries. (I suspect their elite tending to be more influenced by the US and disproportionately educated there is the main reason for how that happened)
Obligatory video about how evil the natives are for not treating them like part of the ingroup despite them having just showed up there uninvited.
Then again, if blacks were in the pageant, perhaps they were jealous of her hair.Replies: @epebble
https://www.bbc.com/creativediversity/nuance-in-bame/pakistani/
Who knew there was such a worldwide shortage of convenience store clerks and liquor store owners?
At least most of them speak God’s language, English.
I’m pretty sure half of them are in London, England.
Or so it seems.
But the whole deep extended families and clans tends to keep the drip running harder in terms of diasporas, particularly given the practice of importing brides from the old country to sure up ethnocentrism and connection to the clan back home with 2nd or 3rd generations.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @AndrewR, @michael droy, @Beagle, @Reg Cæsar, @James N. Kennett, @Bill Jones
So long as the UK has good water treatment, I’m not surprised there isn’t a polio outbreak.
Interesting Gates focused his efforts in the Third World on oral polio vax, known to cause paralysis and vax strain disease, instead of clean water. Almost like he has another agenda entirely.
IIRC, serotype 2 was removed from the vaccine because wt serotype 2 is extinct. There are circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus 2, though.
It’s the paradox of the oral polio vaccine. As long as we vaccinate with the (relatively) reversion-prone vaccine, there will be cvdpv. Even people who don’t get polio from OPV (a rare but real occurrence) shed virus for weeks. People with some immune disorders can excrete live virus for years.
The US switched to the inactivated vaccine. It’s three shots, and they are shots, no one-and-done sugar cube for American kids. They’re too fat, anyway. Like the mRNA covid vaccines, IPV does not cause mucosal immunity, so it only prevents severe disease, not an infection. We treat sewage or use septic tanks, so poliovirus has trouble getting a foothold in developed countries. But in the third world, the combo of cvdpv (from previous vaccination) coupled with weaker immunity and lack of sterilizing immunity could be devastating.
Plus our vile CIA used vaccination campaigns as a cover for their misadventures, so some places are leery of vaccination? Helluva job, Langley!
Dang! If only they’d had one of the Georgia Guidestones written in Pakistani before they got blowed up.
Indo-Saxons
The leading white guy in the betting market is Tom Tugendhat, who served in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars:
https://www.medadmbjmc.in/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Tom-Tugendhat-.png
That’s a Jewish name, his paternal grandfather came from Vienna after WW1 and started a successful oil and chemical business, and his father and uncle were also leading citizens, judges and diplomats.
The grandfather had already become a Catholic before leaving Austria, and married an Anglo-Irish Catholic woman.
His mother is French, meaning he’s a quarter Jewish. Most of the Austrian part of the family made it to England, but several were genocided during WWII.
The weird-looking woman in the middle with the red thing around her neck is Suella Braverman, married to a Jewish person whose connections are very useful, apparently. So she is the British answer to Kamala Harris (although perhaps not with the past as concubine to a black politician.)
The real British candidates seem a pretty hopeless bunch overall.
What is it with the lack of talent among politicians in the English-speaking world?
“UN predicts Pakistan will grow from 234 million in 2022 to 366 million in 2050.”
Here’s a scary thought: maybe the UN knows full well that a hundred million Pakis will move to the United States and Europe by 2050, and the population of Pakistan will still be 366 million.
And don’t forget that the population of Africa will increase to at least 2 billion by 2100.
Here’s a scary thought: maybe the UN knows perfectly well that, between now and 2100, two hundred million sub-Saharan Africans will move to the United States, and another hundred million to Europe, and the population of Africa will still be 2 billion.
So is Somalia, which is a much smaller country than Pakistan, but with a higher birth rate. No matter how many Somalis emigrate, the population continues to increase while remaining in Malthusian poverty; and so the emigration continues, year after year.
Somalis are doing the best they can for their children, which is to keep their country in a state of permanent low-level civil war, so that when their children reach Europe the courts will refuse to send them back.Replies: @Anon7
Although both Indians and Pakistans would take great umbrage at the comparison, the similarities between the two aren’t hard to find. Chief among them is the obsession among their respective elites to gain a Western passport.
Even among many who go to the Gulf, the final aim is still a Western passport, at least for the white-collar workers. The allure of this prospect has meant that a large part of the Pakistani elite are now foreign-domiciled. The former civilian leader of Pakistan, Nawaz Sharif, is holed up in London.
The current COAS (top army man) in Pakistan has most of his family investments in America. Or to be more precise: his brother runs a large number of Papa John’s pizza franchise restaurants. The recently-desposed PM of Pakistan, Imran Khan, has alleged that the US plotted with COAS and other members of the Pakistani elite to remove him. Certainly, ever since he left power, the US has showered Pakistan with attention.
It would be funny if behind the scenes, hard-nosed US diplomats were warning COAS that his family’s hold on Papa John’s pizza looked shaky and if he didn’t do what he was expected to do, perhaps the fortunes in the pizza business would suddenly turn sour.
The big loser here is of course China. Having lavished both large sums and invested considerable geopolitical capital into Pakistan, it appears that subcontinental elites are remarkably cheap to buy off – if you know what their heart desires and are able to provide it. Their loyalty to their home country is paper-thin and they only really care for their own personal enrichment. The West can offer a passport and an easy “escape route” for their progeny if the natives back home suddenly find out what they’ve been up to. That’s an offer the insular and xenophobic Chinese simply cannot hope to match.
I doubt that the UK population much enjoys having large amounts of Pakistanis around, but it appears a price UK elites believe worth paying – if it means corrupting a significant part of their country’s elite. I suspect similar calculations are in play for many other 3rd world countries. This is an undertold story of how the West can corrupt 3rd world elites far better than any competitor. It may not be what Western natives want, but when did Western elites care for them?
One interesting thing about it is that it does seem to be a mostly untold, or at least neglected, story, not something that is often written about or discussed in relation to contemporary British society.
2/3 the population of the US in an area 1/10 the size of the lower 48? That’s already a severely densely populated country.
It’s almost like all those racist, eugenicist–Nazi!–early 20th century Anglos (progressive and un) were quite a bit more realistic and on target about the world and preserving civilization than all the high-IQ Jews who’ve been finger wagging and thought policing since the War. (But then maybe the later’s goal hasn’t been to “preserving civilization”?)
Pakistanis are a dangerous invasive species. Prove me wrong.
They tend to be resemble blacks in they have low IQs and, are violent and depraved, but not so random about it. They' have an organizing principle in a violent, depraved religion
They are problems wherever they go . England has found that out the hard wayReplies: @Anonymous
England appears to have gotten hillmen out of Kim.Replies: @Kaz, @Ed
Didn’t realize this was that much of a common pattern, guess it makes sense.
That’s exactly the way it went down for my family.
Also, no one went to medical school. Just engineers, Big Ten trained and made a killing.
But the whole deep extended families and clans tends to keep the drip running harder in terms of diasporas, particularly given the practice of importing brides from the old country to sure up ethnocentrism and connection to the clan back home with 2nd or 3rd generations.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @AndrewR, @michael droy, @Beagle, @Reg Cæsar, @James N. Kennett, @Bill Jones
Who lets Nigerians bugger them? That’s worse than sending them your banking information.
She not only let a Nigerian bugger her, but she went to her grave with her family knowing that she had basically died as a prostitute - a cute girl who could have dated half the men on campus.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Escher, @Hangnail Hans
Nikki Haley writes in her autobiography that she was denied entry into a pageant as a child in South Carolina because she was neither white nor black. They had no idea what to do with her.
Then again, if blacks were in the pageant, perhaps they were jealous of her hair.
Haley was born in 1972. Was SC that nasty in the 1970's that they wouldn't let a child in? 8 years after 1964? Either this story is bunkum or SC was hell.Replies: @HammerJack, @Daniel H, @Reg Cæsar, @Charlotte
Then again, if blacks were in the pageant, perhaps they were jealous of her hair.Replies: @epebble
she was denied entry into a pageant as a child in South Carolina
Haley was born in 1972. Was SC that nasty in the 1970’s that they wouldn’t let a child in? 8 years after 1964? Either this story is bunkum or SC was hell.
http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/all-her-life-nikki-haley-was-the-different-one/633914/Replies: @epebble, @S. Anonyia
Perhaps black women mostly didn’t want to compete with white women, so they kept their own pageants even after they could have entered integrated ones. More generally, I have the impression that a degree of social segregation wasn’t particularly unpopular among Southern blacks (maybe especially among black women?). If I’m right, Nikki Haley may actually have faced pushback if she tried to enter a black pageant (“good hair” after all), not sure about others.Replies: @epebble
They’ll feel right at home at Wimbledon:
Prince George Sweltering in a Suit Is All the Justification Prince Harry and Meghan Markle Will Ever Need
A little more humid than back in Pak, though.
Here's a scary thought: maybe the UN knows full well that a hundred million Pakis will move to the United States and Europe by 2050, and the population of Pakistan will still be 366 million.
And don't forget that the population of Africa will increase to at least 2 billion by 2100.
Here's a scary thought: maybe the UN knows perfectly well that, between now and 2100, two hundred million sub-Saharan Africans will move to the United States, and another hundred million to Europe, and the population of Africa will still be 2 billion.Replies: @HammerJack, @James N. Kennett, @Thabo
New around here, are we?
https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-worlds-most-important-graph/
Haley was born in 1972. Was SC that nasty in the 1970's that they wouldn't let a child in? 8 years after 1964? Either this story is bunkum or SC was hell.Replies: @HammerJack, @Daniel H, @Reg Cæsar, @Charlotte
Any unverified, self-reported story (“lived experience”) that comforts perfectly with approved mass-media propaganda should be grounds for suspicion at the least.
Note that these tales always seem to burnish the teller’s woke/victimization cred.
Haley was born in 1972. Was SC that nasty in the 1970's that they wouldn't let a child in? 8 years after 1964? Either this story is bunkum or SC was hell.Replies: @HammerJack, @Daniel H, @Reg Cæsar, @Charlotte
The story is BS.
Sort of off topic, but this video from German TV shows why Germans can’t have nice things any more, like public swimming baths.
The official reaction–‘too many people at the swimming baths’. The public reactions shown in the video–everyone seems to be scratching their heads to find the cause of this mysterious upsurge in violence (one woman blames it on the lockdowns).
We are just as deeply embedded within a totalitarian system as the ones of the early 20th century.
Here are numbers from the United Nations:
US: 408K
Canada: 218K
Australia & NZ: 88K
UK: 537K
Western Europe (Not Including UK): 415K
Eastern Europe: 4K
Latin America: 2K
East Asia: 39K
Southeast Asia (Not including Malaysia & Singapore): 16K
Singapore: 127K
Malaysia: 85K
Africa: 16K
Middle East (Not including Gulf States): 25K
Gulf States: 3,410K
India: 833K
Afghanistan: 103K
Neighboring South Asian countries (Not including India): 2K
Total: 6328K
The above only includes the first generation. Not descendants. So in places like the UK (which have long-settled and highly fertile Pakistani populations), the number is far larger than just the first generation.
Nearly 70% live in the Gulf States or South Asia. 10% in North America. 15% in Europe (mostly UK). 5% in other countries (Singapore, Malaysia, Australia, everywhere else etc).
Prince George Sweltering in a Suit Is All the Justification Prince Harry and Meghan Markle Will Ever Need
A little more humid than back in Pak, though.Replies: @Alden
83 F is considered a major dreadful heat wave in England.
Pakistan has won 0 medals at the last 4 Summer Olympics.Replies: @tyrone, @John Pepple, @YetAnotherAnon
…..raping English girls is not an olympic sport.
Mass immigration to South Korea actually strengthens North Korea at the same time. The ethnic Koreans of SK who feel displaced in their own country, and it will become a common feeling once the numbers of foreigners becomes large enough, they will begin to view North Korea and it’s 100% ethnic Korean population as their great hope for reversing the trend via deportations. It may be a fantasy but it will be there, and overlooking how brutal NK is is possible if it’s viewed as the lesser of two evils. It’s not going to be all roses and tulips for South Korea’s leadership if they follow the Western template of marginalizing their own people.
Pakistanis are the worst immigrants to get, save for Somalians
They tend to be resemble blacks in they have low IQs and, are violent and depraved, but not so random about it. They’ have an organizing principle in a violent, depraved religion
They are problems wherever they go . England has found that out the hard way
You are completely and absolutely wrong.
Living in London, England, I like to think that I know about Pakistanis, and one thing that I can tell you, for certain, is that generally, they are a damned sight more intelligent than all the English politicians etc who keep inviting them here.
Also, they appear to be a sight more intelligent than the native whites - they have already monopolised most professional high end jobs for themselves, and are well on the way to buying up most of London's real estate.Replies: @Coconuts, @anon
Haley was born in 1972. Was SC that nasty in the 1970's that they wouldn't let a child in? 8 years after 1964? Either this story is bunkum or SC was hell.Replies: @HammerJack, @Daniel H, @Reg Cæsar, @Charlotte
Or there was a black crown and a white crown in 1977. What could be more Southern than that?
http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/all-her-life-nikki-haley-was-the-different-one/633914/
Based on https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/kimberly-aiken-1975/
I think that "two crowns" story may not be true.Replies: @bored
Forget the humanitarian aspect, think of the receiving nation's future.
Just say: "Hell no, let the nation's future belong to the natural heirs, it's children."Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Anon7
White America is committing suicide.
Decades of sitting in NFL Stadiums and SEC Football Stadiums and tolerating mass non-white LEGAL Immigration….I have spent many hours thinking about this…and I still don’t get…
21 years after 9/11 and Pakistani “American” Immigration Lawyers….taunt on the internet….White Males about their upcoming demographic demise…
And The Economist magazine.
Forget the lies about apocalyptic global famine: what Malthus DESCRIBED is that when people have the physical maximum number of children they possibly can, the resulting exponential growth soon consumes all resources and the ability of real flesh-and-blood humans to develop new resources and industrial infrastructure. At that point you don't get famine (mostly) - you get chromic malnutrition, and the standard of living is driven down to the bare minimum of subsistence (you can't do worse!) and population growth slows.
Note also: every million people escaping from Pakistan does not decrease the population there, because they just free up more resources for that many more people to be conceived and survive to adulthood. And every million Pakistanis that make it to a first-world country increase the population there by a minimum of 2-3 million, because of demographic momentum.Replies: @Pixo, @PhysicistDave
India is below replacement fertility now, and dropping fast, though demographic momentum means population decline won’t start for a while.
Next year India will pass China in population:
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/07/11/india-on-course-to-overtake-china-as-worlds-most-populous-country-un.html
Some anti-CCP Chinese claim it is already well below India and that CCP population stats are faked. I believe this claim, but in a 60/40 kind of way.
https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/1546473372758020098Replies: @Pixo, @Auld Alliance, @PiltdownMan
Not all subcon, one is a black and another is a Kurd who just looks Indian.
The leading white guy in the betting market is Tom Tugendhat, who served in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars:
That’s a Jewish name, his paternal grandfather came from Vienna after WW1 and started a successful oil and chemical business, and his father and uncle were also leading citizens, judges and diplomats.
The grandfather had already become a Catholic before leaving Austria, and married an Anglo-Irish Catholic woman.
His mother is French, meaning he’s a quarter Jewish. Most of the Austrian part of the family made it to England, but several were genocided during WWII.
http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/all-her-life-nikki-haley-was-the-different-one/633914/Replies: @epebble, @S. Anonyia
there was a black crown and a white crown in 1977. What could be more Southern than that?
Based on https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/kimberly-aiken-1975/
I think that “two crowns” story may not be true.
But the whole deep extended families and clans tends to keep the drip running harder in terms of diasporas, particularly given the practice of importing brides from the old country to sure up ethnocentrism and connection to the clan back home with 2nd or 3rd generations.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @AndrewR, @michael droy, @Beagle, @Reg Cæsar, @James N. Kennett, @Bill Jones
Polio was detected in London about 3 weeks ago.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/poliovirus-detected-in-sewage-from-north-and-east-london
Here's a scary thought: maybe the UN knows full well that a hundred million Pakis will move to the United States and Europe by 2050, and the population of Pakistan will still be 366 million.
And don't forget that the population of Africa will increase to at least 2 billion by 2100.
Here's a scary thought: maybe the UN knows perfectly well that, between now and 2100, two hundred million sub-Saharan Africans will move to the United States, and another hundred million to Europe, and the population of Africa will still be 2 billion.Replies: @HammerJack, @James N. Kennett, @Thabo
Pakistan is the gift that keeps on giving.
So is Somalia, which is a much smaller country than Pakistan, but with a higher birth rate. No matter how many Somalis emigrate, the population continues to increase while remaining in Malthusian poverty; and so the emigration continues, year after year.
Somalis are doing the best they can for their children, which is to keep their country in a state of permanent low-level civil war, so that when their children reach Europe the courts will refuse to send them back.
England appears to have gotten hillmen out of Kim.Replies: @Kaz, @Ed
The UK Pakistani community is older they were already into their 2nd generation in the 60s. They recruited to work the mines in the 30s and 40s. So weren’t being selected for brains.
In America, the first wave of Pakistani migrants was mostly students.
Though a trickle of Indians--sailors, servants, students--had been through Britain for the prior 100 years there were absolutely trivial numbers (thousands) until after the War. (You can't believe what you see on Netflix.)
The influx was during the post-War "labor shortage". Typical "cheap labor" grubbing. And to the textile mills not the mines. And the Mirpuris in particular show up in mass when the Pakis built some dam that cleared a bunch of peasants off their land.
Weirdly nations stuck with the Soviet's crappy socialism are more intact now, because their rulers--while still sucking up the loot and running a crappier economic and political system--had no reason to directly screw their workers bring in foreign labor.
A very sleazy business of contemptuous elites, colonial arrogance, greed, political grift and then, of course, ideological gibberish about the War both covering ethnic nastiness and enabling cowardly virtue signaling.Replies: @James N. Kennett
Pakistani immigration to the UK was virtually unknown in the 1930s, indeed, the state of Pakistan did not even exist then.
It only really started post 1948, and the vast majority entered as recently as the 1970s and 80s, periods in which, incidentally, 'commonwealth' immigration was supposedly 'controlled'.
I can categorically tell you right here and now that virtually *zero* Pakistanis were ever employed in UK coal mining and there was *never* any programme to recruit them into UK mining.
In fact, I confidently tell you that the vast vast majority of Pakistani immigrants to the UK *never* had any pre arranged labor contract.
They mostly came in as hustlers of one form or another.Replies: @J.Ross
You really have no clue.
https://www.bbc.com/creativediversity/nuance-in-bame/pakistani/
GDP per head at PPP is $8699 (2017) but a lot of that is extracted by Oligarchs (and Washington!).
That is 57% higher than Pakistan, but it is a lot easier to get to the EU from Ukraine with next door Poland having GDP (PPP) per head of $29, 924, which is 3.4 times as much.
So don't let the media confuse you - this Ukrainian emigration is very largely economic, with the current situation simply accelerating plans to move and take advantage of Europe's open doors (much like the Merkel invitation to immigrants a few years ago). Conscription of young men though is an issue - if I was a mother in safe W Ukraine I'd want my husband and sons out of the country.
A friend in Poland had a pair of alternating Ukrainian cleaners. Each could spend 3 months working in Poland before returning to Ukraine to apply for a new work permit. It worked out nicely but although the bulk of 2 families income came from the one set of cleaning jobs, it counted as at most 1 Ukrainian working abroad.
Now there are 2 families in Poland - it was a very easy move to make.Replies: @J.Ross, @Anon 2, @bomag
This, long before the war no Ukrainian wanted to live in Ukraine. Cross into a country as nearby as Poland and your income triples and there’s nowhere near the corruption.
Apropos of, well, nothing, here is a Safeguard Liquid Hand Soap TV commercial from Pakistan:
In America, the first wave of Pakistani migrants was mostly students.Replies: @AnotherDad, @Anonymous
The 30s? No. Heck i’m an American and I know better. While Britain was not in the sort of Depression the US and Germany was in, there wasn’t a labor demand.
Though a trickle of Indians–sailors, servants, students–had been through Britain for the prior 100 years there were absolutely trivial numbers (thousands) until after the War. (You can’t believe what you see on Netflix.)
The influx was during the post-War “labor shortage”. Typical “cheap labor” grubbing. And to the textile mills not the mines. And the Mirpuris in particular show up in mass when the Pakis built some dam that cleared a bunch of peasants off their land.
Weirdly nations stuck with the Soviet’s crappy socialism are more intact now, because their rulers–while still sucking up the loot and running a crappier economic and political system–had no reason to directly screw their workers bring in foreign labor.
A very sleazy business of contemptuous elites, colonial arrogance, greed, political grift and then, of course, ideological gibberish about the War both covering ethnic nastiness and enabling cowardly virtue signaling.
http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/all-her-life-nikki-haley-was-the-different-one/633914/Replies: @epebble, @S. Anonyia
There was a black homecoming court and a white homecoming court at my suburban Southern middle school in the early 2000s. They ditched the tradition (which I believe was actually supported most by black parents) by the time I was in 8th grade.
Anyway I still doubt Haley’s story because they would have just lumped her in with the white contestants, especially considering she looks like a tanned white person and isn’t that exotic for a South Asian. Popular Asian and Hispanic kids at my school were included with the “white” homecoming court. Old-fashioned Deep South types tended to divide people into black and non-black categories before getting into any other distinctions.
The biggest lie in genealogy is "They changed our name at Ellis Island."
Of course, the classic is how evil the natives are for not treating us like part of the ingroup, when we insist on being our own separate outgroup. All other ethnic whining pales compared to that.
An interesting article in the Times: Why So Many Children of Immigrants Rise to the Top.
Notably, both immigrants and Americans are treated as monolithic blocks: there is no effort, for example, to see how the children of poor immigrants stack up to the children of poor Americans if you subtract American blacks from the analysis, or to see whether immigrants from some countries do better than those from others.
That's exactly the way it went down for my family.Replies: @Hodag
I married into such a family. I was the only non-blonde. I never saw it until one of the grandkids pointed it out. All married northern Midwest blondes, then the dudes my age all married blondes …I like brunettes.
Also, no one went to medical school. Just engineers, Big Ten trained and made a killing.
Based on https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/kimberly-aiken-1975/
I think that "two crowns" story may not be true.Replies: @bored
Black and white homecoming queens were common where I grew up well into the 1990’s.
In other news, pulse oximeters are racist: https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/11/health/pulse-oximeters-dark-skin-study/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_term=link&utm_source=fbCNN&utm_content=2022-07-11T22%3A31%3A06&fbclid=IwAR276uIqvCdc3nbfN2ny2sqwI_RWSvMyhyx-Qe7lByXFJVsqBJE7boJE1_U
In both locations, they work as contract laborers on limited term contracts and visas, in specific jobs, for specific employers, who are responsible for them. They are typically housed in work camps, and secluded from the general population, with severely limited ability to roam around on their days off, and mingle.
The net outflow number for Pakistan seems quite large, about 20% of its male population at the start of that period, 2011.Replies: @Altai, @nebulafox
Bangladeshis, too, at least in Singapore. There’s a whole “Little Dhaka” neighborhood right next to Little India. Whole streets of Bengali-language only restaurants, remittance centers, etc. I’ve seen their living conditions, and I’ve known people who worked with getting them food during COVID (happened to hit hard during Ramadan, so local Islamic charities were busy), so let’s just say I wasn’t terribly surprised when the pandemic sprung from them.
From what I’ve heard, though, it’s considered an honor in rural Bangladesh to be chosen to work in Singapore, despite the conditions. (As one put it: “Here, they won’t rape or kill you like the Arabs might.”) They don’t send anything but the village’s best: and penty of villages in Bangladesh have been electrified and whatnot thanks to the guest workers and what they send back.
> the similarities between the two aren’t hard to find.
I mean… they are the same people, racially speaking. Punjabis on both sides of the border, and over near Bangladesh, Bengalis on both sides of the border. Down south, Tamils in Sri Lanka share the same language and looks as their co-ethnics in Tamil Nadu.
Difference is religion, not language or physical features.
"Tamils in Sri Lanka share the same language and looks as their co-ethnics in Tamil Nadu."True, but they look nothing like the Sinhalese (darker, more square featured) that they live alongside.Replies: @nebulafox, @rec1man
Forget the humanitarian aspect, think of the receiving nation's future.
Just say: "Hell no, let the nation's future belong to the natural heirs, it's children."Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Anon7
To celebrate Canada’s 150th anniversary, they picked a guy from Somalia who who had brought in guess how many relatives since arriving in Canada in 1985?
That’s right. 150. He hasn’t even gotten to ask all of his siblings. When Canadians voted for their policy, they probably didn’t think of families with fifteen children.
Much longer than you; the key phrase is “at least”. Maybe you should check Steve’s original post, which I read in 2015:
https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-worlds-most-important-graph/
So is Somalia, which is a much smaller country than Pakistan, but with a higher birth rate. No matter how many Somalis emigrate, the population continues to increase while remaining in Malthusian poverty; and so the emigration continues, year after year.
Somalis are doing the best they can for their children, which is to keep their country in a state of permanent low-level civil war, so that when their children reach Europe the courts will refuse to send them back.Replies: @Anon7
No kidding. See my comment to Joe Stalin.
Did I miss a posting about Sri Lanka? The videos of insurrection and mansion burning are pretty awesome. I wonder if we'll see a wave of copycat revolts in other third world nations.Replies: @nebulafox
Given the decision of the government to listen to Western NGOs over common sense and the result being starvation conditions, I’m not going to judge the mob there too harshly.
Mike Shellenberger over on Twitter and Substack is a pundit I would happily plug to anybody here who wants to learn more.
https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/green-dogma-behind-fall-of-sri-lanka
Sadly this girlfor one.
She not only let a Nigerian bugger her, but she went to her grave with her family knowing that she had basically died as a prostitute – a cute girl who could have dated half the men on campus.
https://heavy.com/news/mackenzie-lueck-ayoola-ajayi-met/
Your donations to Jimmy Wales hard at work.Replies: @Clyde
Most dysfunctional community IMHO tend to be the Mirpuris from Pakistani Kashmir who you find in West Yorkshire and Lancashire.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/deportation-battles-and-forgotten-victims-24350061I bet he was a really effective welfare rights officer if you were one of his people.
https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/20250328.eight-rapists-jailed-total-90-years-degrading-sexual-abuse-teenage-girl-keighley/Replies: @Fidelios Automata
Only 12 years? 50 would have been more appropriate. Or the noose.
Organic farming is fine … if you cut the population of the world by 2/3rds.
Once the traitors have gained a certain influence, the bribes will be paid not out of the Free West’s (TM) coffers, but with the taxpayer’s money of the betrayed country.
Interesting Gates focused his efforts in the Third World on oral polio vax, known to cause paralysis and vax strain disease, instead of clean water. Almost like he has another agenda entirely.Replies: @Rob
It’s really frustrating that OPV has not been replaced by engineered, low-reversion strains. It’s been done. Heck, one of the three (now 2) serotypes in OPV rarely reverts. Maybe use that as the chassis for both. Rational Design of Genetically Stable, Live-Attenuated Poliovirus Vaccines of All Three Serotypes: Relevance to Poliomyelitis Eradication. Engineering the Live-Attenuated Polio Vaccine to Prevent Reversion to Virulence is another.
IIRC, serotype 2 was removed from the vaccine because wt serotype 2 is extinct. There are circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus 2, though.
It’s the paradox of the oral polio vaccine. As long as we vaccinate with the (relatively) reversion-prone vaccine, there will be cvdpv. Even people who don’t get polio from OPV (a rare but real occurrence) shed virus for weeks. People with some immune disorders can excrete live virus for years.
The US switched to the inactivated vaccine. It’s three shots, and they are shots, no one-and-done sugar cube for American kids. They’re too fat, anyway. Like the mRNA covid vaccines, IPV does not cause mucosal immunity, so it only prevents severe disease, not an infection. We treat sewage or use septic tanks, so poliovirus has trouble getting a foothold in developed countries. But in the third world, the combo of cvdpv (from previous vaccination) coupled with weaker immunity and lack of sterilizing immunity could be devastating.
Plus our vile CIA used vaccination campaigns as a cover for their misadventures, so some places are leery of vaccination? Helluva job, Langley!
Haley was born in 1972. Was SC that nasty in the 1970's that they wouldn't let a child in? 8 years after 1964? Either this story is bunkum or SC was hell.Replies: @HammerJack, @Daniel H, @Reg Cæsar, @Charlotte
I got curious and did a search on newspapers.com for “beauty pageant” and “black beauty pageant” in SC during the 70s and 80s. There were a number of “Miss Black whatever” pageants into the 80s, though most of the hits were 70s through early 80s. On the other hand, I found a story about a black girl who was going to the regular state pageant after winning a contest that was integrated, ca. 1978. So some or all white pageants were integrated, at least officially, but blacks kept up their own pageants-or possibly many of the white SC pageants integrated late. It’s hard to tell from the articles.
Perhaps black women mostly didn’t want to compete with white women, so they kept their own pageants even after they could have entered integrated ones. More generally, I have the impression that a degree of social segregation wasn’t particularly unpopular among Southern blacks (maybe especially among black women?). If I’m right, Nikki Haley may actually have faced pushback if she tried to enter a black pageant (“good hair” after all), not sure about others.
That is natural as she is not black. However, her rejection, if it had happened by non-black pageant, would be surprising. My understanding of 1860s - 1960s U.S. history is that non-blacks were not treated harshly. Stretching it to 1970's (or beyond) strains credibility.
Nikki was five at the time. You know how family stories go– like telephone tag.
The biggest lie in genealogy is “They changed our name at Ellis Island.”
Pakistan has won 0 medals at the last 4 Summer Olympics.Replies: @tyrone, @John Pepple, @YetAnotherAnon
They won the Cricket World Cup in 1992, so they aren’t entirely unathletic.
https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-i-m-not-an-athlete-i-m-a-professional-baseball-player-john-kruk-70-3-0354.jpgReplies: @PiltdownMan
Forget the lies about apocalyptic global famine: what Malthus DESCRIBED is that when people have the physical maximum number of children they possibly can, the resulting exponential growth soon consumes all resources and the ability of real flesh-and-blood humans to develop new resources and industrial infrastructure. At that point you don't get famine (mostly) - you get chromic malnutrition, and the standard of living is driven down to the bare minimum of subsistence (you can't do worse!) and population growth slows.
Note also: every million people escaping from Pakistan does not decrease the population there, because they just free up more resources for that many more people to be conceived and survive to adulthood. And every million Pakistanis that make it to a first-world country increase the population there by a minimum of 2-3 million, because of demographic momentum.Replies: @Pixo, @PhysicistDave
TG wrote:
The West is outsourcing the production of babies to the Third World (though eventually it will be sub-Saharan Africa, rather than the Subcontinent).
As Janet Yellen reminded us, if American women were spending their time making babies, it would diminish the GDP — you know, all those women not working as diversity consultants, attorneys, educrats, journalists, etc. would really impact our economic well-being!
Someplace, Friedrich Engels mentioned that the rock-bottom requirements for a human society to survive were production and reproduction — production of stuff and reproduction via making babies.
Sometimes, Karl Marx’s better half got it right.
The amount of Muslims worldwide who loathe their home countries and want to move to the West is something else. I bet a significant portion of them would stay home if they could get rid of their crazy Muslim religion at home and get the mullahs off their backs.
Not surprising you're a 'citizenism' believing fool.
They tend to be resemble blacks in they have low IQs and, are violent and depraved, but not so random about it. They' have an organizing principle in a violent, depraved religion
They are problems wherever they go . England has found that out the hard wayReplies: @Anonymous
Sorry.
You are completely and absolutely wrong.
Living in London, England, I like to think that I know about Pakistanis, and one thing that I can tell you, for certain, is that generally, they are a damned sight more intelligent than all the English politicians etc who keep inviting them here.
Also, they appear to be a sight more intelligent than the native whites – they have already monopolised most professional high end jobs for themselves, and are well on the way to buying up most of London’s real estate.
Why white politicians all over the West keep importing Third World people is a mystery. I've never heard a comprehensive explanation yetReplies: @J.Ross, @S, @Anonymous
Decades of sitting in NFL Stadiums and SEC Football Stadiums and tolerating mass non-white LEGAL Immigration….I have spent many hours thinking about this…and I still don’t get…
21 years after 9/11 and Pakistani “American” Immigration Lawyers….taunt on the internet….White Males about their upcoming demographic demise…Replies: @Anonymous
Blame the politicians.
And The Economist magazine.
Perhaps black women mostly didn’t want to compete with white women, so they kept their own pageants even after they could have entered integrated ones. More generally, I have the impression that a degree of social segregation wasn’t particularly unpopular among Southern blacks (maybe especially among black women?). If I’m right, Nikki Haley may actually have faced pushback if she tried to enter a black pageant (“good hair” after all), not sure about others.Replies: @epebble
Nikki Haley may actually have faced pushback if she tried to enter a black pageant
That is natural as she is not black. However, her rejection, if it had happened by non-black pageant, would be surprising. My understanding of 1860s – 1960s U.S. history is that non-blacks were not treated harshly. Stretching it to 1970’s (or beyond) strains credibility.
Cricket is athletic? Not its American cousin:
Didn’t he also invent feminism? I guess he didn’t want human society to survive.
Why, one may ask, did a wealthy liberal communist German Jewish industrial family set up factories in England? Because wages were much less, hours were longer and there were far fewer health and safety regulations in England than the various German countries at the time. Plus no pensions as German countries began to require. . Plus lots of starving Irish and Scot immigrants who couldn’t afford the fare to America added to the starving desperate native English.
Elizabeth was a true feminist. Better a woman work in a low paid dangerous factory job than quit her nasty job to marry a man who worked at a dangerous factory job earning A FAMILY LIVING WAGE.
I know the MEN OF UNZ think feminazis are liberals. They’re not. They are tools of the evil capitalist pigs. And have worked for the evil capitalist pigs to increase the work force and lower wages for both men and women for more than 200 years.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @PhysicistDave
But the Old Marxists (prior to, say, the '60s) did tend to grasp that there was a difference between males and females, that making babies was a central aspect of being female, etc.
Paul Gottfried has written in detail about the fact that the rejection of human biology is the fault of Americans at least as much as European intellectuals: American intellectuals, post-1945, basically lost their minds.
And their insanity has now filtered down to a lot of policy makers, pundits, and college-educated Americans.
We call it the "Culture Wars," but that is not really quite right: Protestants vs. Catholics, traditional Christians vs. Freethinkers -- those were Culture Wars.
But the American elite during the last half century, and especially the last decade, exhibits a level of insanity that is almost unmatched in the historical record.
There is a lot we can blame on Marx and Engels.
But not this.Replies: @Alden
No, it’s nonmilitary conquest, literally the central story in their religion and what they celebrate on the Hajj. Muhammad and his original followers arrive at Yathrib as refugees (having been thrown out of Mecca), gradually take Yathrib over, rename it Medina, turn it into a base for further conquest, and finally correct the original insult by retaking Mecca. The politicians who let them in should be denied Christian burial.
Somewhat OT:
Lots of weird glitches in the system showing up lately.
Early this afternoon we had a mysterious power outage for about an hour. (Unfortunately, it came smack in the middle of a Zoom meeting.) When I called to make a report the automated system indicated that 2,000 customers were affected. It could have been a typical summer overload but it’s hard to say.
Then the garbage truck never showed up. Our pickups are scheduled for Monday and Thursday. The trash collectors get three holidays a year – MLK Day, the Fourth of July, and Christmas. So this was the second Monday in a row that we had no pickup.
I looked online for some kind of official explanation or news report or something but there was nothing. So everyone on my street still has their cans outside hoping that the truck will come by tomorrow.
“Raising a child in the UK will inevitably result in them absorbing a large part of the British culture, for better or worse.”
The young Pakistani/Bangla men lead a double existence – drugs/alcohol/cars and also the mosque on Friday. Any offence to the prophet and they’re on the streets. Bang the “white meat” and marry a girl from home.
From what I gather, this sort of thing isn't localized to the Pakis of the UK. Other Muslim groups (Arabs, Kurds, Berbers, etc) do the same thing. This is happening throughout Northern Europe.
Pakistan has won 0 medals at the last 4 Summer Olympics.Replies: @tyrone, @John Pepple, @YetAnotherAnon
Good squash players – but that tends to be the upper classes. Good cricketers too.
“they are the same people, racially speaking”
Dunno about that. Caste in India and relative physical isolation in the Himalayas/Hindu Kush kept castes/tribes pretty separate for a very long time.
http://whatthedoost.com/2015/11/05/but-you-dont-look-afghan/
“Tamils in Sri Lanka share the same language and looks as their co-ethnics in Tamil Nadu.”
True, but they look nothing like the Sinhalese (darker, more square featured) that they live alongside.
That variance isn't based off the 1947 partition: it goes back way back. For all I know, there might be some genetic breakdown on caste, considering the role it might have played in who converted to Islam and who didn't, but it doesn't mean that people on the immediate side of the border in Bangladesh and Pakistan don't share the same language and, apart from religious differences, culture as their co-ethnics.
(It's worth noting that the other "big" non-Western civilizational center that lies on the other side of the Himalayas is the exact opposite, with Sinicization swamping adjacent peoples both north and south, conquerors and conquered alike, making for an relatively consistent culture/gene pool across a billion people. So when I say in other comments that the "Asian" label is a retarded one, this is part of what I'm talking about. China and India are significantly more different from each other than, say, Russia and England are, and both have their own extended cultural spheres of influence that make for full-on different civilizational systems: and that's before you get to the individual divergences between different countries, or places like Southeast Asia where you have indirect influence from both.)Replies: @PhysicistDave, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Old Brown Fool
1) Aryan Dairy Farmer
2) Indus Valley Wheat Farmer
3) Andamanese Hunter Gatherer ( out of Africa )
Kashmir Pandit Brahmin = 30% Aryan + 60% Indus + 10% Andamanese
Kashmir Pandit Brahmins have a dna blend very close to South Europeans
South Brahmin = 20% Aryan + 55% Indus + 25% Andamanese
Sinhalese = 10% Aryan + 50% Indus + 40% Andamanese
Tamils = 5% Aryan + 45% Indus + 50% Andamanese
Sinhalese are a blend of 25% each of Buddhist Low caste Dravidians from Bengal, Odisha, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - when Buddhism died out in Mainland India, 1000s of low caste dravidian buddhists from east coast of India migrated to Sri Lanka and took up hybrid Sinhalese identityReplies: @Steve Sailer
I’ve thought this for a long time, I think you can see it going on if you have a chance to observe the right British social milieux and have some awareness of the historical background.
One interesting thing about it is that it does seem to be a mostly untold, or at least neglected, story, not something that is often written about or discussed in relation to contemporary British society.
You are completely and absolutely wrong.
Living in London, England, I like to think that I know about Pakistanis, and one thing that I can tell you, for certain, is that generally, they are a damned sight more intelligent than all the English politicians etc who keep inviting them here.
Also, they appear to be a sight more intelligent than the native whites - they have already monopolised most professional high end jobs for themselves, and are well on the way to buying up most of London's real estate.Replies: @Coconuts, @anon
It depends where you are in the country, the ones in the North do not fit this pattern. Imo you might get the impression they are nepotistic, ethnocentric and have some level of cunning, but not that they are more intelligent than white British. Indians tend to seem more intelligent on average though.
GDP per head at PPP is $8699 (2017) but a lot of that is extracted by Oligarchs (and Washington!).
That is 57% higher than Pakistan, but it is a lot easier to get to the EU from Ukraine with next door Poland having GDP (PPP) per head of $29, 924, which is 3.4 times as much.
So don't let the media confuse you - this Ukrainian emigration is very largely economic, with the current situation simply accelerating plans to move and take advantage of Europe's open doors (much like the Merkel invitation to immigrants a few years ago). Conscription of young men though is an issue - if I was a mother in safe W Ukraine I'd want my husband and sons out of the country.
A friend in Poland had a pair of alternating Ukrainian cleaners. Each could spend 3 months working in Poland before returning to Ukraine to apply for a new work permit. It worked out nicely but although the bulk of 2 families income came from the one set of cleaning jobs, it counted as at most 1 Ukrainian working abroad.
Now there are 2 families in Poland - it was a very easy move to make.Replies: @J.Ross, @Anon 2, @bomag
Actually Poland’s 2022 GDP (PPP) per capita is $41,685, close to that
of Spain. You’re off by roughly $11,000. Poland’s economy has been
growing at an astonishing rate since 1989 (collapse of Communism).
OT – drinking the US sanctions Kool-Aid is having the same effect on Europeans as it had on the People’s Temple devotees.
It will be twice (probably more) as much as July, 2021.Replies: @Flip
https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/1546473372758020098Replies: @Pixo, @Auld Alliance, @PiltdownMan
Another one is Grant Shapps, Jewish. And Dominic Raab, half-Jewish.
The weird-looking woman in the middle with the red thing around her neck is Suella Braverman, married to a Jewish person whose connections are very useful, apparently. So she is the British answer to Kamala Harris (although perhaps not with the past as concubine to a black politician.)
The real British candidates seem a pretty hopeless bunch overall.
What is it with the lack of talent among politicians in the English-speaking world?
of Spain. You’re off by roughly $11,000. Poland’s economy has been
growing at an astonishing rate since 1989 (collapse of Communism).Replies: @anonymous
Surprised to see it that high. It was $33,000 per capita (PPP) in 2019. Did Poland really do well over the last 3 years? I tend to ignore PPP versus nominal even for per capita GDP because it’s an estimated figure on top of another estimated figure.
In the same time period I notice Turkey has risen from $28,000 to $37,000 which I think really makes PPP per capita look like a farce. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
given by Wikipedia, and is based on IMF estimates. The comparable
figure for Russia is only $30,013. My understanding is that the
lockdowns in Poland in 2020 and 2021 were relatively mild compared
to, say, Germany so Poland’s economy was not heavily affected.Replies: @J.Ross, @Anonymous, @Bill Jones
“A large part of the British culture” includes plenty of racial grievance, so migrants drift towards being more of a conquering demographic rather than new citizens joining a storied culture.
GDP per head at PPP is $8699 (2017) but a lot of that is extracted by Oligarchs (and Washington!).
That is 57% higher than Pakistan, but it is a lot easier to get to the EU from Ukraine with next door Poland having GDP (PPP) per head of $29, 924, which is 3.4 times as much.
So don't let the media confuse you - this Ukrainian emigration is very largely economic, with the current situation simply accelerating plans to move and take advantage of Europe's open doors (much like the Merkel invitation to immigrants a few years ago). Conscription of young men though is an issue - if I was a mother in safe W Ukraine I'd want my husband and sons out of the country.
A friend in Poland had a pair of alternating Ukrainian cleaners. Each could spend 3 months working in Poland before returning to Ukraine to apply for a new work permit. It worked out nicely but although the bulk of 2 families income came from the one set of cleaning jobs, it counted as at most 1 Ukrainian working abroad.
Now there are 2 families in Poland - it was a very easy move to make.Replies: @J.Ross, @Anon 2, @bomag
Key point in the Humanitarian Industrial Complex: there are safe havens in every country; and in countries next door; but there is a penchant for showing up in places that are nice. For now.
She not only let a Nigerian bugger her, but she went to her grave with her family knowing that she had basically died as a prostitute - a cute girl who could have dated half the men on campus.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Escher, @Hangnail Hans
That’s a sad tale. It must be pretty bleak as a father to find that your little girl died when her john turned out to be a psychopath.
https://heavy.com/news/mackenzie-lueck-ayoola-ajayi-met/
https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-i-m-not-an-athlete-i-m-a-professional-baseball-player-john-kruk-70-3-0354.jpgReplies: @PiltdownMan
Dr. W.G. Grace, born 1848, is apparently considered to be one of the greatest sportsmen in the history of cricket, and going by the statistics, perhaps the greatest, certainly the most prolific.
He was said to be strong as an ox, but wasn’t exactly “athletic,” going by our modern notions of what that adjective means.
The baseball analogy is perhaps a good one.
https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/1546473372758020098Replies: @Pixo, @Auld Alliance, @PiltdownMan
It appears systemic racism is at work over there.
Though a trickle of Indians--sailors, servants, students--had been through Britain for the prior 100 years there were absolutely trivial numbers (thousands) until after the War. (You can't believe what you see on Netflix.)
The influx was during the post-War "labor shortage". Typical "cheap labor" grubbing. And to the textile mills not the mines. And the Mirpuris in particular show up in mass when the Pakis built some dam that cleared a bunch of peasants off their land.
Weirdly nations stuck with the Soviet's crappy socialism are more intact now, because their rulers--while still sucking up the loot and running a crappier economic and political system--had no reason to directly screw their workers bring in foreign labor.
A very sleazy business of contemptuous elites, colonial arrogance, greed, political grift and then, of course, ideological gibberish about the War both covering ethnic nastiness and enabling cowardly virtue signaling.Replies: @James N. Kennett
That is how it started. By the mid-1960s the Baby Boomers had started to enter the workforce, so there was no longer a labour shortage; but the immigration was allowed to continue, in order to suppress wages and reduce the bargaining power of the trade unions. Tony Blair’s “New” Labour in 1997 increased immigration even further, and for more deviant motives: in the words of Blair’s aide Andrew Neather, their goal was to “rub the right’s nose in diversity”, and for this purpose they sent teams abroad to encourage mass immigration from the Third World.
This supports John Derbyshire’s idea that racial politics has little to do with non-whites, who have walk-on parts in a battle between two large groups of white people who don’t like each other very much.
$41,685 for Poland’s 2022 GDP(PPP) per capita is the figure
given by Wikipedia, and is based on IMF estimates. The comparable
figure for Russia is only $30,013. My understanding is that the
lockdowns in Poland in 2020 and 2021 were relatively mild compared
to, say, Germany so Poland’s economy was not heavily affected.
If Twitter hire hire some leftist bint to delete tweets, how is that "production"?
given by Wikipedia, and is based on IMF estimates. The comparable
figure for Russia is only $30,013. My understanding is that the
lockdowns in Poland in 2020 and 2021 were relatively mild compared
to, say, Germany so Poland’s economy was not heavily affected.Replies: @J.Ross, @Anonymous, @Bill Jones
The Eastern Bloc was much more autonomous than we generally thought; under communism, as a result of fierce resistance, Polish kulaks succeeded where Ulrainian kulaks had failed, so privately-owned farms and even small boutiques were normal. Nobody probably associates Poles with entrepreneurship the way say the Dutch are strongly associated with it, but they have acquitted themselves well in recent generations.
One thing that impressed me about communist Poland in my two visits was the friendly, happy cynicism of the people. They were well aware it was all a joke, as had been everything "official" for hundreds of years up to that point.
They'd had generations of experience. The Deng-era Chinese were just beginning to get a feel for it, though they did turn out to be quick learners.
It’s all about The Beautiful Game.
In America, the first wave of Pakistani migrants was mostly students.Replies: @AnotherDad, @Anonymous
Baloney.
Pakistani immigration to the UK was virtually unknown in the 1930s, indeed, the state of Pakistan did not even exist then.
It only really started post 1948, and the vast majority entered as recently as the 1970s and 80s, periods in which, incidentally, ‘commonwealth’ immigration was supposedly ‘controlled’.
I can categorically tell you right here and now that virtually *zero* Pakistanis were ever employed in UK coal mining and there was *never* any programme to recruit them into UK mining.
In fact, I confidently tell you that the vast vast majority of Pakistani immigrants to the UK *never* had any pre arranged labor contract.
They mostly came in as hustlers of one form or another.
given by Wikipedia, and is based on IMF estimates. The comparable
figure for Russia is only $30,013. My understanding is that the
lockdowns in Poland in 2020 and 2021 were relatively mild compared
to, say, Germany so Poland’s economy was not heavily affected.Replies: @J.Ross, @Anonymous, @Bill Jones
If wages in Poland are so high – verging on the UK mean, so it seems – why is England still stuck with a shit ton of Poles?
But the whole deep extended families and clans tends to keep the drip running harder in terms of diasporas, particularly given the practice of importing brides from the old country to sure up ethnocentrism and connection to the clan back home with 2nd or 3rd generations.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @AndrewR, @michael droy, @Beagle, @Reg Cæsar, @James N. Kennett, @Bill Jones
Re : ethnocentrism
Surely they’re shoring it up?
Just so this isn’t pure Grammar Nazi can anybody tell me why we shouldn’t loose the Jewocons on starting a nuclear war between India and Pakistan?
Does anybody (if not downwind) see any downside at all?
IN SOVIET EUROPE
THE BOER KILLS YOU
https://i.postimg.cc/TYVJqyS4/1657523473844.pngReplies: @Bill Jones
The Dutch are acting in the most logical, practical and effective manner. The indolents of the Rest of the West need to take heed.
given by Wikipedia, and is based on IMF estimates. The comparable
figure for Russia is only $30,013. My understanding is that the
lockdowns in Poland in 2020 and 2021 were relatively mild compared
to, say, Germany so Poland’s economy was not heavily affected.Replies: @J.Ross, @Anonymous, @Bill Jones
GDP figures are meaningless as used in the West. They are a lie. They a close to Gross Domestic spending.
If Twitter hire hire some leftist bint to delete tweets, how is that “production”?
She not only let a Nigerian bugger her, but she went to her grave with her family knowing that she had basically died as a prostitute - a cute girl who could have dated half the men on campus.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Escher, @Hangnail Hans
The Wikipedia article seems to have been removed.
Your donations to Jimmy Wales hard at work.
They want to turn their host countries into better functioning versions of their homelands, Sharia, veils, hand chopping and all.
I’ve been looking up British crime statistics, and as best I can tell Pakistani crime rates are higher than white rates but lower than black rates, overall closer to white rates. Not unlike Hispanics in the United States.
Grew up in the Research Triangle and had a Paki Dook U herpetologist living down the street from us in the mid-60s, but can’t recall any sort of prejudice directed his way, which, given that he was, in the manner of many academics, a bit of a weird-oh, speaks well for the then inhabitants of the neighborhood. His house was full of snakes of every sort, poisonous and not, caged and free roaming. As the decade progressed, with the attendant degeneration of moral standards, some miscreant broke into his house, apparently unaware of what lurked therein. Having come in through a window, the churl chose to exit rather precipitously via the sliding glass door, and in too big a hurry to bother opening it. The RPD had him in custody before the ER docs even finished sewing him up.
"Tamils in Sri Lanka share the same language and looks as their co-ethnics in Tamil Nadu."True, but they look nothing like the Sinhalese (darker, more square featured) that they live alongside.Replies: @nebulafox, @rec1man
I think the way to view South Asia is that you have thousands of self-contained gene pools with some of the biggest variance on the planet. This is why caste does have a genetic basis to it, and that’s before you get to race, religion, and everything else. Each community has their own individual rules. All of this goes under the same cultural rubric, though, unique on the planet: the Sinhalese might be Aryan Buddhists instead of Dravidian Hindus, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t *still* recognizably South Asian.
That variance isn’t based off the 1947 partition: it goes back way back. For all I know, there might be some genetic breakdown on caste, considering the role it might have played in who converted to Islam and who didn’t, but it doesn’t mean that people on the immediate side of the border in Bangladesh and Pakistan don’t share the same language and, apart from religious differences, culture as their co-ethnics.
(It’s worth noting that the other “big” non-Western civilizational center that lies on the other side of the Himalayas is the exact opposite, with Sinicization swamping adjacent peoples both north and south, conquerors and conquered alike, making for an relatively consistent culture/gene pool across a billion people. So when I say in other comments that the “Asian” label is a retarded one, this is part of what I’m talking about. China and India are significantly more different from each other than, say, Russia and England are, and both have their own extended cultural spheres of influence that make for full-on different civilizational systems: and that’s before you get to the individual divergences between different countries, or places like Southeast Asia where you have indirect influence from both.)
I've known a large number of East Asians, from various countries, and quite a few South Asians.
The Koreans and Vietnamese basically claim to be junior Chinese, not quite as prestigious as Han Chinese, but superior to the Western barbarians.
But I have never met any Asian who thought there was any significant tie between East Asia and the Subcontinent. More different in fact than Russia vs. England. More like the Netherlands vs. Iraq.
There really is such a thing as distinct civilizations, even if there are some gray cases near borders in between (Burma or Thailand, perhaps?).Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Malla, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
The name China itself is from Sanskrit चीन cīna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinas
That said, the transmission of culture from India to East Asia is one way, from west to east. There's some Japanese influence on Chinese culture, but almost none of East Asia on Indosphere.
This is how during WWII both the Chinese and Japanese made fairly compelling (and competing) rhetorical overtures to bring Indians on their side--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Taiwan_relations
The key thinker behind Japanese Pan-Asianism was Indologist 大川 周明, Ōkawa Shūmei. This scene from a Bollywood film--
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lu5FvJgmNI
Why not? The supposed initial story of Judaism was the total Iliad-esque slaughter of various city-states in Canaan, but that didn’t stop Certain Serious People from squawking about “Judeo-Christian” values.
There’s intriguing evidence that some of the earliest proto-Muslims were former foedorati that went off the reservation when the East Romans couldn’t afford to pay them anymore. This was right after their final cataclysmic war with Sassanid Persia and their Slav/Avar allies in Europe in the 7th Century. The Romans won (against all the odds), but a century of bubonic plague, economic depression, famine, and war had taken their toll, and the Arabs came at just the wrong moment before the empire had any chance to recover. It’s plausible enough, and it would fit in with the social breakdown in Arabia leading to a charismatic new generation of prophet-leaders preaching monotheist unity between the “sons of Abraham” that would appeal to such alienated soldiers.
If this is true, it might provide part of the reason why the Arabs were able to pull off victory at the Yarmouk.
The young Pakistani/Bangla men lead a double existence - drugs/alcohol/cars and also the mosque on Friday. Any offence to the prophet and they're on the streets. Bang the "white meat" and marry a girl from home.Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
That mentality is what led to THOUSANDS of homeless White kids being “groomed” into Paki/Muslim prostitution rings.
From what I gather, this sort of thing isn’t localized to the Pakis of the UK. Other Muslim groups (Arabs, Kurds, Berbers, etc) do the same thing. This is happening throughout Northern Europe.
The article should be correctly titled. “ Why so many children of non White affirmative action entitled immigrants rise to the top”
Why are the MEN OF UNZ so completely unaware and ignorant of how viciously enforced affirmative action discriminated against White men. Or the same sex and race of the MEN OF UNZ????
You MEN OF UNZ can’t all be 95 years old. You all didn’t get your jobs before 1968. Most of the MEN OF UNZ seem to be earned income employee types. Dependent on employers for your job and income.
And you never noticed in 20,30 years of working that critters of color get the jobs and promotions.
Another reason why I’m convinced few MEN OF UNZ have White children and grandchildren.
If any of you had White children and or grandchildren you would know all about the vicious discrimination against White boys and men.
A few months ago Steve posted an article about a White private school in Los Angeles $64K a year. And not one, not one senior accepted into a university of California campus. And none of the MEN OF UNZ cared about the vicious genocidal discrimination against their own race. One of the many reasons I believe most of the MEN OF UNZ are childless celibates.
The MEN OF UNZ want abortion made illegal and impossible to obtain illegally. So as to create more black and brown welfare babies who will grow up to be come career criminals who prey on Whites. The MEN OF UNZ want White women to magically conceive and raise White babies with no help from White men.
No wonder the White race is headed for extinction. The conservative White men are against abortion and even birth control to limit the blacks and browns. Conservative White men are also against the living wages that enable non Welfare Whites to have children. And worst, worst conservative White men are unaware of affirmative action. At least liberal Whites are honest. They want all Whites but themselves dead.
But our Ship of State has hit an iceberg.
The time for practical action has come and gone.
We're scrambling for lifeboats now.
https://www.unz.com/aanglin/ivana-trump-has-died-yes-it-was-probably-the-vax/
But we are honest enough to admit that, under our Constitutional system, issues like this are meant to be left to the states.
I won't like what some states will choose to do, but I am not dictator of the United States: this is a federal republic.
Or it is supposed to be.
The Camp of the Saints is happening right now and happening almost exactly as Jean Raspail wrote nearly 50 years ago except that rather than a flotilla of ships it is now an air assault trickling in hundreds per trip rather than a million at one time. Less noticeable that way but with the same net effect.
The Poles who went abroad for the past few years are the ones who couldn’t find work in the best economy in the EU. Hence the complaints.
Pakistani immigration to the UK was virtually unknown in the 1930s, indeed, the state of Pakistan did not even exist then.
It only really started post 1948, and the vast majority entered as recently as the 1970s and 80s, periods in which, incidentally, 'commonwealth' immigration was supposedly 'controlled'.
I can categorically tell you right here and now that virtually *zero* Pakistanis were ever employed in UK coal mining and there was *never* any programme to recruit them into UK mining.
In fact, I confidently tell you that the vast vast majority of Pakistani immigrants to the UK *never* had any pre arranged labor contract.
They mostly came in as hustlers of one form or another.Replies: @J.Ross
There actually was a tiny number of South Asians, never a community in any sense, unable to establish any community because it was all one gender and age group, autohomeless, infamously dependent, and unwilling to assimilate: the Lashkars, who were something like sailor-slaves, and who, if they screwed up, might find themselves on a London street. We know of them mainly from the charitable organizations which churches set up. This is apparently what the BBC means when they say that every other Mancunian was a Massai.
Every immigrant, even if he’s one of the good ones, has a default idea of the new country as the same thing as the old country, where familiar habits may be indulged, except there will be more money, and the consequences of the old habits will somehow not occur.
Your donations to Jimmy Wales hard at work.Replies: @Clyde
Try this —- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Mackenzie_Lueck
She not only let a Nigerian bugger her, but she went to her grave with her family knowing that she had basically died as a prostitute - a cute girl who could have dated half the men on campus.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Escher, @Hangnail Hans
I remember that case, though not many of the details. The good thing is that he escaped the death penalty, so the next woke DA can spring him because Restorative Justice. The great thing is that he’s into kiddie pr0n so he’ll make a dandy keynote speaker at the next DNC
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-shropshire-61983584
https://twitter.com/sg_futures/status/1546770483223449600Replies: @Bubba
If you live in the U.S.A. just wait until you receive your electric bill next month.
It will be twice (probably more) as much as July, 2021.
Engels didn’t invent feminism. But he was a feminist. He disapproved of marriage as he claimed it made a woman a slave of the husband. He lived with a factory worker, Elizabeth Burns. Never married her. She worked in one of the unhealthy slave labor less than a living wage horrible evil factories the wealthy Engels family owned. Elizabeth was very proud that she chose to work in the factory and be somewhat independent rather than live off Engels. She wrote a lot of feminist articles. Or at least signed her name to them. I don’t know if they had children.
Why, one may ask, did a wealthy liberal communist German Jewish industrial family set up factories in England? Because wages were much less, hours were longer and there were far fewer health and safety regulations in England than the various German countries at the time. Plus no pensions as German countries began to require. . Plus lots of starving Irish and Scot immigrants who couldn’t afford the fare to America added to the starving desperate native English.
Elizabeth was a true feminist. Better a woman work in a low paid dangerous factory job than quit her nasty job to marry a man who worked at a dangerous factory job earning A FAMILY LIVING WAGE.
I know the MEN OF UNZ think feminazis are liberals. They’re not. They are tools of the evil capitalist pigs. And have worked for the evil capitalist pigs to increase the work force and lower wages for both men and women for more than 200 years.
That's similar to the pro-elective-abortion lobby of that day being led by the likes of Hugh Hefner.Replies: @Alden
England in the mid 19th century had the highest per capita incomes and wages in the world.Replies: @J.Ross, @Alden, @Anonymous
PBS ran a special on this a few years ago, which has no doubt been memory-holed since.
Funny how these things actually work out in ways oh so different from the "official" narratives in the media and academia!
Enough to make reasonable people suspect a conspiracy to oppress ordinary people. (I myself doubt there is such a conspiracy: rather it is group-think combined with a robust callousness towards the consequences suffered by ordinary people.)
Reg Cæsar wrote to me:
Well… Marxist theories concerning economics are simply mistaken: Marx relied on the classical “labor theory of value,” which was being replaced during his own lifetime; he failed to understand the connection between capital and time preference, rather a central error for a guy who wrote a book entitled “Das Kapital”; etc.
But the Old Marxists (prior to, say, the ’60s) did tend to grasp that there was a difference between males and females, that making babies was a central aspect of being female, etc.
Paul Gottfried has written in detail about the fact that the rejection of human biology is the fault of Americans at least as much as European intellectuals: American intellectuals, post-1945, basically lost their minds.
And their insanity has now filtered down to a lot of policy makers, pundits, and college-educated Americans.
We call it the “Culture Wars,” but that is not really quite right: Protestants vs. Catholics, traditional Christians vs. Freethinkers — those were Culture Wars.
But the American elite during the last half century, and especially the last decade, exhibits a level of insanity that is almost unmatched in the historical record.
There is a lot we can blame on Marx and Engels.
But not this.
That variance isn't based off the 1947 partition: it goes back way back. For all I know, there might be some genetic breakdown on caste, considering the role it might have played in who converted to Islam and who didn't, but it doesn't mean that people on the immediate side of the border in Bangladesh and Pakistan don't share the same language and, apart from religious differences, culture as their co-ethnics.
(It's worth noting that the other "big" non-Western civilizational center that lies on the other side of the Himalayas is the exact opposite, with Sinicization swamping adjacent peoples both north and south, conquerors and conquered alike, making for an relatively consistent culture/gene pool across a billion people. So when I say in other comments that the "Asian" label is a retarded one, this is part of what I'm talking about. China and India are significantly more different from each other than, say, Russia and England are, and both have their own extended cultural spheres of influence that make for full-on different civilizational systems: and that's before you get to the individual divergences between different countries, or places like Southeast Asia where you have indirect influence from both.)Replies: @PhysicistDave, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Old Brown Fool
nebulafox wrote:
Yeah.
I’ve known a large number of East Asians, from various countries, and quite a few South Asians.
The Koreans and Vietnamese basically claim to be junior Chinese, not quite as prestigious as Han Chinese, but superior to the Western barbarians.
But I have never met any Asian who thought there was any significant tie between East Asia and the Subcontinent. More different in fact than Russia vs. England. More like the Netherlands vs. Iraq.
There really is such a thing as distinct civilizations, even if there are some gray cases near borders in between (Burma or Thailand, perhaps?).
https://www.artmajeur.com/medias/standard/k/s/ksgreenart/artwork/12228500_picsart-05-01-05-48-17.jpgReplies: @PhysicistDave
The Vietnamese were quite rebellious in the Confucian group, interestingly like how France is inside NATO. And just like France, which is a Northern European and also a Mediterranean European country in one, Vietnam is both a North East Asian country and a South East Asian country. Vietnamese animosity towards China is very similar to Polish animosity towards fellow Slavic Russia.
Little Brother Korea on the other hand had become Confucian than China itself. So super Confucian infact that their Confucian society (Confucian systems are against caste systems) morphed into a kind of caste system with a Brahman like Yanban elite. And just like how the British Empire emancipated the lower castes of India, the Japanese Empire emancipated the lower castes of Korea. And even more interesting is the fact that the Independence day of South Korea from the Japanese empire is 15th August, the same as India's Independence day from the British Empire!!Replies: @Mary Marianne
Prestigious in the collective imperial might of worshipping tyrants at the expense of the individual.
Prestigious in lying back and thinking of "Muh 5000 years of continuous history" in light having been "dynamic zero-covided" untold many times in history by foreign tribes and other Chinese. The latest statistical research on death toll of Taiping Civil War is a mind-boggling 45 to 95 million.
Many Chinese will tell you that Genghis Khan was Chinese and expanded "China" all the way to Poland.
You don't need to read Chinese to see whose handwriting is more stylish and whose looks like schoolkid scribble.
https://twitter.com/Jam79922967/status/1545435447442161668?s=20&t=-_L7FvIcN1ZNQlTytC5lng
On the left is Abe 台湾加油 "Let's go Taiwan". On the right is Xi 广阔天地 终身难忘 "Wide open heaven and earth, unforgettable for a lifetime."
Why, one may ask, did a wealthy liberal communist German Jewish industrial family set up factories in England? Because wages were much less, hours were longer and there were far fewer health and safety regulations in England than the various German countries at the time. Plus no pensions as German countries began to require. . Plus lots of starving Irish and Scot immigrants who couldn’t afford the fare to America added to the starving desperate native English.
Elizabeth was a true feminist. Better a woman work in a low paid dangerous factory job than quit her nasty job to marry a man who worked at a dangerous factory job earning A FAMILY LIVING WAGE.
I know the MEN OF UNZ think feminazis are liberals. They’re not. They are tools of the evil capitalist pigs. And have worked for the evil capitalist pigs to increase the work force and lower wages for both men and women for more than 200 years.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @PhysicistDave
Engels wasn’t Jewish.
I've known a large number of East Asians, from various countries, and quite a few South Asians.
The Koreans and Vietnamese basically claim to be junior Chinese, not quite as prestigious as Han Chinese, but superior to the Western barbarians.
But I have never met any Asian who thought there was any significant tie between East Asia and the Subcontinent. More different in fact than Russia vs. England. More like the Netherlands vs. Iraq.
There really is such a thing as distinct civilizations, even if there are some gray cases near borders in between (Burma or Thailand, perhaps?).Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Malla, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
They know less about their history than our kids know about ours!
And Mahayana Buddhism is radically different from Theravada.
Just as Christianity came from the Near East.
Yes, Europe's religion is of Near Eastern origin. Sort of. If you ignore the very strong Hellenistic imprint on Christianity.
And similarly for Buddhism and East Asia.
Chinese do know all this, just as Westerners know that Christianity comes from the Levant.
Still, in both cases, really distinct civilizations.Replies: @nebulafox
Why, one may ask, did a wealthy liberal communist German Jewish industrial family set up factories in England? Because wages were much less, hours were longer and there were far fewer health and safety regulations in England than the various German countries at the time. Plus no pensions as German countries began to require. . Plus lots of starving Irish and Scot immigrants who couldn’t afford the fare to America added to the starving desperate native English.
Elizabeth was a true feminist. Better a woman work in a low paid dangerous factory job than quit her nasty job to marry a man who worked at a dangerous factory job earning A FAMILY LIVING WAGE.
I know the MEN OF UNZ think feminazis are liberals. They’re not. They are tools of the evil capitalist pigs. And have worked for the evil capitalist pigs to increase the work force and lower wages for both men and women for more than 200 years.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @PhysicistDave
I’ve read that the only faction that supported having women stay in the workforce after WWII was the National Association of Manufacturers.
That’s similar to the pro-elective-abortion lobby of that day being led by the likes of Hugh Hefner.
Most of the MEN OF UNZ don’t know the role Hefner a man whose money came from men who bought his magazine played in legalizing abortion.
Remember the ERA equal rights for women amendment that never happened? Well, the very first ERA proposal was in the 1920s . Kept popping up through the years. It was proposals by the National Restaurant Association. Restaurant employees are heavily women. And the restaurant owners objected to the numerous 19th and early 20th century labor laws that made things a little easier for women. But not men. The restaurant owners were totally furious at the extra pay for overtime laws. Weight lifting restrictions for women limitations on hours etc.
Back in the olden day’s weight limits were mostly 25 pounds for women 50 pounds for men. Which kept women from the 50 pound jobs. Now in most states the limit is 75 pounds for both sexes. And lots of disabilities resulting from the increase.
The feminazi tools of the employers were the were the biggest advocates of increasing the weight limit because women are as big and strong as men. And now men and women are disabled. There were lots of limitations on unpaid overtime etc for women. The feminazis got rid of many labor protection laws that benefited both men and women. In the name of equality.
It’s too bad the ERA equal rights amendment was shot down. Maybe White men could use it to sue for discrimination-and get their equal rights backReplies: @Reg Cæsar
(West) Pakistan was once importer of people, mostly from Bangladesh/ East Pakistan.
Thousands of East Pakistan Bengalis were living in West Pakistan before 1971 war of indpendence and Bangladeshi immigrants arrived in Pakistan right after their war against the same country. These people were Pakistan loving but they were not socially welcomed or still today they are not considered citizen of Pakistan. By 1995, continuous migration of Bangladeshis crossed the 2,500,000 mark. During the administration of Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, some top advisers became concerned with the large Bangladeshi migrant population, afraid they could become the second largest group in Karachi after Urdu-speaking Muhajir people and disturb sensitive demographics. Accordingly, Bhutto ordered a crackdown and deportation on Bangladeshi immigrants. Benazir Bhutto’s action strained and created tensions in Bangladesh–Pakistan relations, with Khaleda Zia, who was in power in Dhaka during the time, refusing to accept the deportees and reportedly sending two planeloads back towards Pakistan and Muslim political parties in Pakistan criticising Bhutto and dubbing the crackdown as anti-Islamic. She was ultimately forced to abandon the order.
I've known a large number of East Asians, from various countries, and quite a few South Asians.
The Koreans and Vietnamese basically claim to be junior Chinese, not quite as prestigious as Han Chinese, but superior to the Western barbarians.
But I have never met any Asian who thought there was any significant tie between East Asia and the Subcontinent. More different in fact than Russia vs. England. More like the Netherlands vs. Iraq.
There really is such a thing as distinct civilizations, even if there are some gray cases near borders in between (Burma or Thailand, perhaps?).Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Malla, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
The Japanese took a different route, became a slightly distinct civilization (like Russian civlization is to Western civ in Europe) and hence the hatred for the “Japanese pirate barbarians” by Chinese and Koreans. The Japanese were not a tributary state of China (except short durations in between) for nearly a 1000 years, and hence were the “bad boys” as far as the other Confucian societies was concerned. They had their own Emperor. Later on the Japanese started considering Japan itslef as the Middle kingdom, which is a blasphemy in the Confucian World, akin to some one claiming prophet-hood after Prophet Mohammed in the Islamic World, like what the Ahmediyas/Quadiyani Muslims do.
The Vietnamese were quite rebellious in the Confucian group, interestingly like how France is inside NATO. And just like France, which is a Northern European and also a Mediterranean European country in one, Vietnam is both a North East Asian country and a South East Asian country. Vietnamese animosity towards China is very similar to Polish animosity towards fellow Slavic Russia.
Little Brother Korea on the other hand had become Confucian than China itself. So super Confucian infact that their Confucian society (Confucian systems are against caste systems) morphed into a kind of caste system with a Brahman like Yanban elite. And just like how the British Empire emancipated the lower castes of India, the Japanese Empire emancipated the lower castes of Korea. And even more interesting is the fact that the Independence day of South Korea from the Japanese empire is 15th August, the same as India’s Independence day from the British Empire!!
Thanks.
Why, one may ask, did a wealthy liberal communist German Jewish industrial family set up factories in England? Because wages were much less, hours were longer and there were far fewer health and safety regulations in England than the various German countries at the time. Plus no pensions as German countries began to require. . Plus lots of starving Irish and Scot immigrants who couldn’t afford the fare to America added to the starving desperate native English.
Elizabeth was a true feminist. Better a woman work in a low paid dangerous factory job than quit her nasty job to marry a man who worked at a dangerous factory job earning A FAMILY LIVING WAGE.
I know the MEN OF UNZ think feminazis are liberals. They’re not. They are tools of the evil capitalist pigs. And have worked for the evil capitalist pigs to increase the work force and lower wages for both men and women for more than 200 years.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @PhysicistDave
That simply *cannot* be true.
England in the mid 19th century had the highest per capita incomes and wages in the world.
But then she is a woman.
It’s obvious you don’t know what was going on in the different German countries in the early and mid 19 th centuries. Pensions paid by employers. Higher wages mandated by government regulations. Fewer hours for the same wages. Extensive health and safety measures.
After the revolutions of 1848 there was massive immigration out of the German countries. From 2 groups of people. One group was the Marxist communist revolutionaries who were defeated.
The other and larger was the middle and upper classes who didn’t want to pay the higher taxes and higher wages and workers benefits the different countries of Germany imposed on the business owners after the Marxist communists were defeated in the revolution of 1848.
And many, like the Engels moved their factories to business friendly England. Even before 1848 many of the German countries were way ahead of the rest of Europe and the Americas in benefits for ordinary workers.
Quick without looking at Wikipedia what year did Germany become Germany? Bet you don’t know without asking google. And I doubt you’ve ever heard of the European revolutions of 1848.
Per capita income is a ridiculous measurement. Elon Musk makes billions a year supposedly. The guys who manufacture his Tesla cars probably make about $15 to $30 an hour for a 40 hour week. So counting in Musk’s income the per capita income for all Tesla workers is probably very high.
Conservatives are such idiots. Especially the low paid lower middle classes who go along with conservative economics.
(The reason everybody thinks Victorian factory workers lived in grinding poverty is because of Charles Dickens. People forget that he was a satirist who exaggerated for comic effect. There are similar cultural misunderstandings regarding P. G. Wodehouse and 'Theodore Dalrymple')
The downside however is that the Victorian era was a terrible time to be a farmer in England (never mind Ireland). The same free trade policies that benefitted urban workers crucified farmers and other rural people. British agriculture entered a deep recession in the 19th century from which it only began to recover a century later (i.e. after the abandonment of free trade and the quest for national food self-sufficiency that began in World War II.)Replies: @Malla
https://www.artmajeur.com/medias/standard/k/s/ksgreenart/artwork/12228500_picsart-05-01-05-48-17.jpgReplies: @PhysicistDave
Reg Cæsar wrote to me:
Well, Chinese do know that Buddhism came from India, but, then again, Buddhism actually pretty much died out in India.
And Mahayana Buddhism is radically different from Theravada.
Just as Christianity came from the Near East.
Yes, Europe’s religion is of Near Eastern origin. Sort of. If you ignore the very strong Hellenistic imprint on Christianity.
And similarly for Buddhism and East Asia.
Chinese do know all this, just as Westerners know that Christianity comes from the Levant.
Still, in both cases, really distinct civilizations.
Why, one may ask, did a wealthy liberal communist German Jewish industrial family set up factories in England? Because wages were much less, hours were longer and there were far fewer health and safety regulations in England than the various German countries at the time. Plus no pensions as German countries began to require. . Plus lots of starving Irish and Scot immigrants who couldn’t afford the fare to America added to the starving desperate native English.
Elizabeth was a true feminist. Better a woman work in a low paid dangerous factory job than quit her nasty job to marry a man who worked at a dangerous factory job earning A FAMILY LIVING WAGE.
I know the MEN OF UNZ think feminazis are liberals. They’re not. They are tools of the evil capitalist pigs. And have worked for the evil capitalist pigs to increase the work force and lower wages for both men and women for more than 200 years.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @PhysicistDave
Alden wrote:
A lot of the leaders of second-wave feminism seem to have been lesbians, who did not have a real option of hooking up with a guy.
PBS ran a special on this a few years ago, which has no doubt been memory-holed since.
Funny how these things actually work out in ways oh so different from the “official” narratives in the media and academia!
Enough to make reasonable people suspect a conspiracy to oppress ordinary people. (I myself doubt there is such a conspiracy: rather it is group-think combined with a robust callousness towards the consequences suffered by ordinary people.)
Here's a scary thought: maybe the UN knows full well that a hundred million Pakis will move to the United States and Europe by 2050, and the population of Pakistan will still be 366 million.
And don't forget that the population of Africa will increase to at least 2 billion by 2100.
Here's a scary thought: maybe the UN knows perfectly well that, between now and 2100, two hundred million sub-Saharan Africans will move to the United States, and another hundred million to Europe, and the population of Africa will still be 2 billion.Replies: @HammerJack, @James N. Kennett, @Thabo
You’re obsessed with Africa
England in the mid 19th century had the highest per capita incomes and wages in the world.Replies: @J.Ross, @Alden, @Anonymous
And he was not owner in Weaste/Salford but co-owner, and fully owned a German factory at the same time, and sold the Salford site to Anthony Ermen after a while (so he wasn’t going from the Germanies to England). I can’t find a motive (I assume the famously progressive for their time German principalities requiring worker considerations is probably true, although I had the impression it happened somewhat later), but it looks like Alden’s argument is logical given limited data but wrong.
But then she is a woman.
Thabo is right: let us deal once and for all with them, and then put them out of our minds, and focus on beautiful North-East Asians.
@78 Anon[962]: Their ‘crazy Muslim religion’ is a product of their culture which is a product of their genetics. They bring the craziness with them wherever they go. Culture doesn’t get inhaled though the ether or transmitted via birth on magic dirt. DNA matters.
Not surprising you’re a ‘citizenism’ believing fool.
@111 Prosa: Because we all know statistics never lie, or are fudged by politicians, or ethnic local police, and that all crime is actually reported. Racial politics? What’s that?
That variance isn't based off the 1947 partition: it goes back way back. For all I know, there might be some genetic breakdown on caste, considering the role it might have played in who converted to Islam and who didn't, but it doesn't mean that people on the immediate side of the border in Bangladesh and Pakistan don't share the same language and, apart from religious differences, culture as their co-ethnics.
(It's worth noting that the other "big" non-Western civilizational center that lies on the other side of the Himalayas is the exact opposite, with Sinicization swamping adjacent peoples both north and south, conquerors and conquered alike, making for an relatively consistent culture/gene pool across a billion people. So when I say in other comments that the "Asian" label is a retarded one, this is part of what I'm talking about. China and India are significantly more different from each other than, say, Russia and England are, and both have their own extended cultural spheres of influence that make for full-on different civilizational systems: and that's before you get to the individual divergences between different countries, or places like Southeast Asia where you have indirect influence from both.)Replies: @PhysicistDave, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Old Brown Fool
One of four great novels, Journey to the West is about a Tang monk’s pilgrimage to India. Another, Dreams of Red Chamber can be said to be a Buddhist novel (for the lack of battles and duels I’ve never finished either).
The name China itself is from Sanskrit चीन cīna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinas
That said, the transmission of culture from India to East Asia is one way, from west to east. There’s some Japanese influence on Chinese culture, but almost none of East Asia on Indosphere.
This is how during WWII both the Chinese and Japanese made fairly compelling (and competing) rhetorical overtures to bring Indians on their side–
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Taiwan_relations
The key thinker behind Japanese Pan-Asianism was Indologist 大川 周明, Ōkawa Shūmei. This scene from a Bollywood film–
I remember talking to an affluent Polish woman visiting Chicago and she said about Polish-Americans, “they were poor in Poland and they are poor in America.”
It will be twice (probably more) as much as July, 2021.Replies: @Flip
I bought some shirts from LLBean last month and they were $49.99 each. The exact same shirts are now $59.99.
They were quite entrepreneurial about unauthorized foreign exchange transactions in 1985. As were uniformed Chinese schoolgirls the same year. The manager of the local tourist bureau in Krakow gave me what turned out to be a very bad rate compared to later deals I made with others. Nevertheless, I was still pleased with it. Even his bad rate was a big improvement over the official one.
One thing that impressed me about communist Poland in my two visits was the friendly, happy cynicism of the people. They were well aware it was all a joke, as had been everything “official” for hundreds of years up to that point.
They’d had generations of experience. The Deng-era Chinese were just beginning to get a feel for it, though they did turn out to be quick learners.
You may not be obsessed with Africa. But Africa is most certainly obsessed with you.
“Sail on, sail on sailor”, or Elon, Elon Sailer?
“Last week, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said that declining birth rates present ‘the biggest danger civilization faces by far.’ But it looks like it will be a few decades at least before population collapse will begin posing a problem.”
One week after Elon Musk talked about an ‘underpopulation crisis,’ the UN says the world population is set to continue growing until 2100
There is population, and there are populations. The civilizational populations could collapse while the general population still grows. Indeed, that is what is happening now. Musk detects it like Tibetan deer detect musk.
Fortune, in its Corvine way, assumes that all births, or more accurately the latent potential in all births, are equal. I doubt Musk was doing the same, though of course in today’s milieu even billionaires have to watch their tongues. (Heck, especially billionaires, as they have so much more to lose.)
Speaking of musk, and muskox in particular, is the NFL following this research? Never mind Covid, look at bovid:
Scientists See Signs of Traumatic Brain Injury in Headbutting Muskox
Thanks.
That variance isn't based off the 1947 partition: it goes back way back. For all I know, there might be some genetic breakdown on caste, considering the role it might have played in who converted to Islam and who didn't, but it doesn't mean that people on the immediate side of the border in Bangladesh and Pakistan don't share the same language and, apart from religious differences, culture as their co-ethnics.
(It's worth noting that the other "big" non-Western civilizational center that lies on the other side of the Himalayas is the exact opposite, with Sinicization swamping adjacent peoples both north and south, conquerors and conquered alike, making for an relatively consistent culture/gene pool across a billion people. So when I say in other comments that the "Asian" label is a retarded one, this is part of what I'm talking about. China and India are significantly more different from each other than, say, Russia and England are, and both have their own extended cultural spheres of influence that make for full-on different civilizational systems: and that's before you get to the individual divergences between different countries, or places like Southeast Asia where you have indirect influence from both.)Replies: @PhysicistDave, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Old Brown Fool
In India, it is not easy to tell someone’s caste just by looks; one can place a man roughly in a spectrum of castes (there are a few hundred different castes of Brahmins alone, and they do not intermarry; similarly there are hundreds of business castes, and thousands of farmer castes; a British estimate was about 40,000 castes), but it is extremely difficult even for someone from the same region to find a man’s caste just by looks. Because there has been so much stealthy interbreeding. The only exceptions are where a caste has a specific genetic marker – a forehead, a chin, a nose, etc. Even then it may be wrong in some cases.
I've known a large number of East Asians, from various countries, and quite a few South Asians.
The Koreans and Vietnamese basically claim to be junior Chinese, not quite as prestigious as Han Chinese, but superior to the Western barbarians.
But I have never met any Asian who thought there was any significant tie between East Asia and the Subcontinent. More different in fact than Russia vs. England. More like the Netherlands vs. Iraq.
There really is such a thing as distinct civilizations, even if there are some gray cases near borders in between (Burma or Thailand, perhaps?).Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Malla, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
prestigious as Han Chinese
Prestigious in the collective imperial might of worshipping tyrants at the expense of the individual.
Prestigious in lying back and thinking of “Muh 5000 years of continuous history” in light having been “dynamic zero-covided” untold many times in history by foreign tribes and other Chinese. The latest statistical research on death toll of Taiping Civil War is a mind-boggling 45 to 95 million.
Many Chinese will tell you that Genghis Khan was Chinese and expanded “China” all the way to Poland.
You don’t need to read Chinese to see whose handwriting is more stylish and whose looks like schoolkid scribble.
On the left is Abe 台湾加油 “Let’s go Taiwan”. On the right is Xi 广阔天地 终身难忘 “Wide open heaven and earth, unforgettable for a lifetime.”
And Mahayana Buddhism is radically different from Theravada.
Just as Christianity came from the Near East.
Yes, Europe's religion is of Near Eastern origin. Sort of. If you ignore the very strong Hellenistic imprint on Christianity.
And similarly for Buddhism and East Asia.
Chinese do know all this, just as Westerners know that Christianity comes from the Levant.
Still, in both cases, really distinct civilizations.Replies: @nebulafox
Except for Sri Lanka, where the communal divide between the native Buddhist Sinhalese and Hindu Tamil minority was the cause of decades of bloody war and mutual atrocities.
> If you ignore the very strong Hellenistic imprint on Christianity.
Or the strong Zoroastrian Persian influence on Islam. In a weird way, you could think of the two religions as being half-brothers. Same mother, but very different fathers.
My own point above was that the civilizational gap between South and East Asia, IMO, is bigger than the gap between the West and the Russian world (which I do view as a different, full-fledged civilizational construct of its own-mind, Poland, Baltics, Hungary, etc are fundamentally Western countries that had the misfortune of getting captured and warped by the Bolshevik Muscovite imperium) or the Americas. It really is pretty mind boggling to think about the scale of it all, particularly when you divide the subcontinent up according to language groups.
With the exception of Greek, Europe gets by with a total of two alphabets. The differ in the details-- e.g., Russian and Ukrainian each have four letters not present in the other-- but fundamentally they're branches of the same tree.
Each Subcontinental alphabet is a different animal, as different as Roman and Cyrillic. Yes, they are all branches of the same tree. Roman, Cyrillic, and Greek are all related, too, not just to each other but to the Subcons as well. Every alphabet except hangul descends from Phoenician. (Or "Phœnician", if you prefer.)Replies: @J.Ross
England in the mid 19th century had the highest per capita incomes and wages in the world.Replies: @J.Ross, @Alden, @Anonymous
No it didn’t. Per capita income includes every person including the very wealthiest. Then averages it out. The poor are still very poor and the wealthy are still very very wealthy.
It’s obvious you don’t know what was going on in the different German countries in the early and mid 19 th centuries. Pensions paid by employers. Higher wages mandated by government regulations. Fewer hours for the same wages. Extensive health and safety measures.
After the revolutions of 1848 there was massive immigration out of the German countries. From 2 groups of people. One group was the Marxist communist revolutionaries who were defeated.
The other and larger was the middle and upper classes who didn’t want to pay the higher taxes and higher wages and workers benefits the different countries of Germany imposed on the business owners after the Marxist communists were defeated in the revolution of 1848.
And many, like the Engels moved their factories to business friendly England. Even before 1848 many of the German countries were way ahead of the rest of Europe and the Americas in benefits for ordinary workers.
Quick without looking at Wikipedia what year did Germany become Germany? Bet you don’t know without asking google. And I doubt you’ve ever heard of the European revolutions of 1848.
Per capita income is a ridiculous measurement. Elon Musk makes billions a year supposedly. The guys who manufacture his Tesla cars probably make about $15 to $30 an hour for a 40 hour week. So counting in Musk’s income the per capita income for all Tesla workers is probably very high.
Conservatives are such idiots. Especially the low paid lower middle classes who go along with conservative economics.
Not to mention alphabets. (Or “abugidas” to be technically correct in some cases.)
With the exception of Greek, Europe gets by with a total of two alphabets. The differ in the details– e.g., Russian and Ukrainian each have four letters not present in the other– but fundamentally they’re branches of the same tree.
Each Subcontinental alphabet is a different animal, as different as Roman and Cyrillic. Yes, they are all branches of the same tree. Roman, Cyrillic, and Greek are all related, too, not just to each other but to the Subcons as well. Every alphabet except hangul descends from Phoenician. (Or “Phœnician”, if you prefer.)
That's similar to the pro-elective-abortion lobby of that day being led by the likes of Hugh Hefner.Replies: @Alden
OMG !!!! So you know that Hugh Hefner and his Playboy Foundation funded Roe vs Wade And propagandized abortion and the sexual revolution when the hippies were still in diapers.
Most of the MEN OF UNZ don’t know the role Hefner a man whose money came from men who bought his magazine played in legalizing abortion.
Remember the ERA equal rights for women amendment that never happened? Well, the very first ERA proposal was in the 1920s . Kept popping up through the years. It was proposals by the National Restaurant Association. Restaurant employees are heavily women. And the restaurant owners objected to the numerous 19th and early 20th century labor laws that made things a little easier for women. But not men. The restaurant owners were totally furious at the extra pay for overtime laws. Weight lifting restrictions for women limitations on hours etc.
Back in the olden day’s weight limits were mostly 25 pounds for women 50 pounds for men. Which kept women from the 50 pound jobs. Now in most states the limit is 75 pounds for both sexes. And lots of disabilities resulting from the increase.
The feminazi tools of the employers were the were the biggest advocates of increasing the weight limit because women are as big and strong as men. And now men and women are disabled. There were lots of limitations on unpaid overtime etc for women. The feminazis got rid of many labor protection laws that benefited both men and women. In the name of equality.
It’s too bad the ERA equal rights amendment was shot down. Maybe White men could use it to sue for discrimination-and get their equal rights back
Meanwhile, in the UK:
More than 1,000 children were sexually exploited in Telford over decades, inquiry finds
The Telford child abuse scandal was first exposed by our sister paper, the Sunday Mirror, in 2018, which found after an 18-month investigation that up to a thousand children had been abused since the 1980s
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/more-1000-children-were-sexually-27463810
But the Old Marxists (prior to, say, the '60s) did tend to grasp that there was a difference between males and females, that making babies was a central aspect of being female, etc.
Paul Gottfried has written in detail about the fact that the rejection of human biology is the fault of Americans at least as much as European intellectuals: American intellectuals, post-1945, basically lost their minds.
And their insanity has now filtered down to a lot of policy makers, pundits, and college-educated Americans.
We call it the "Culture Wars," but that is not really quite right: Protestants vs. Catholics, traditional Christians vs. Freethinkers -- those were Culture Wars.
But the American elite during the last half century, and especially the last decade, exhibits a level of insanity that is almost unmatched in the historical record.
There is a lot we can blame on Marx and Engels.
But not this.Replies: @Alden
Sorry Dave Engels and his lady love Lizzie Burns were feminists. And so was Lenin his wife and all the early communists. It’s well known to those who study communism.
But they did know that only women could get pregnant.
Something our current-day Leftists cannot acknowledge.
The Old Left turned out to be catastrophically wrong.
The current Left are insane.
You are completely and absolutely wrong.
Living in London, England, I like to think that I know about Pakistanis, and one thing that I can tell you, for certain, is that generally, they are a damned sight more intelligent than all the English politicians etc who keep inviting them here.
Also, they appear to be a sight more intelligent than the native whites - they have already monopolised most professional high end jobs for themselves, and are well on the way to buying up most of London's real estate.Replies: @Coconuts, @anon
Pakistanis have an average IQ of 85 at most , but with Pakistan’s huge population there are bound to be a few smart ones , Though I can’t believe they can lock up the best jobs in an international city like London.
Why white politicians all over the West keep importing Third World people is a mystery. I’ve never heard a comprehensive explanation yet
All South Asians do 24 hours a day is nepotism. When your brother is a violent retard and your culture commands you to save him from himself, it's a full-time job.
To best sum it up, with the early 19th century introduction of wage slavery, ie specifically, the so called 'cheap labor'/'mass immigration' system within Anglosphere countries, in particular the United States, chattel slavery and it's trade was monetized rather than having been abolished.
From a financial point of view, the immigrant is the slave, for whatever period of time (days, weeks, months, years) he or she is paid significantly below* what was, or, what would of been, the prevailing real time local rates for the labor, without the immigration taking place, or, the 'immigrant', being present.
Readily built into this system, should anyone get uppity about suffering under it, is a divide and conquer, divide and rule strategy for corrupt elites to utilize, as succinctly described on pg 4 of a 2003 academic paper which I’ve excerpted and linked below:
‘..the immigrants usually serve three main functions: cheap labor to replace native groups; settlement on the ‘frontier’ (periphery); and control over the natives and their land. These dynamics generally result in the maintenance of hegemony..’
* For instance, Chinese 'imported'by diktat into California in the 1870's were often being paid only about a third what everyone else was being paid for the same labor.
https://www.academia.edu/27219183/Between_urban_and_national_Political_mobilization_among_Mizrahim_in_Israel_s_development_towns_Replies: @anon
Pakistanis in Bradford
More than 1,000 children were sexually exploited in Telford over decades, inquiry finds
The Telford child abuse scandal was first exposed by our sister paper, the Sunday Mirror, in 2018, which found after an 18-month investigation that up to a thousand children had been abused since the 1980shttps://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/more-1000-children-were-sexually-27463810Replies: @anon
Protecting your children from physical harm and sexual exploitation is the most basic human instinct. There really has to be something wrong with modern British society to allow this to happen . Every institution and facet of society that should be protecting young girls from primitive Third World savagery has failed them- police, government , courts, social services, feminists, neighbours ……….
Most of the MEN OF UNZ don’t know the role Hefner a man whose money came from men who bought his magazine played in legalizing abortion.
Remember the ERA equal rights for women amendment that never happened? Well, the very first ERA proposal was in the 1920s . Kept popping up through the years. It was proposals by the National Restaurant Association. Restaurant employees are heavily women. And the restaurant owners objected to the numerous 19th and early 20th century labor laws that made things a little easier for women. But not men. The restaurant owners were totally furious at the extra pay for overtime laws. Weight lifting restrictions for women limitations on hours etc.
Back in the olden day’s weight limits were mostly 25 pounds for women 50 pounds for men. Which kept women from the 50 pound jobs. Now in most states the limit is 75 pounds for both sexes. And lots of disabilities resulting from the increase.
The feminazi tools of the employers were the were the biggest advocates of increasing the weight limit because women are as big and strong as men. And now men and women are disabled. There were lots of limitations on unpaid overtime etc for women. The feminazis got rid of many labor protection laws that benefited both men and women. In the name of equality.
It’s too bad the ERA equal rights amendment was shot down. Maybe White men could use it to sue for discrimination-and get their equal rights backReplies: @Reg Cæsar
As well as the League of Women Voters, who refused to endorse minimum wage laws unless they applied to men as well. (That tells you everything you need to know about the minimum wage!)
Note that in its 101 years it has never mentioned responsibility, duty, obligations, or anything of the kind. That tells you everything you need to know about the ERA.
The closest it has ever come is in Section 1 of its original iteration, as proposed by the National Women's Party, which didn't live out the year:
Section 2 of this and every other version began with the frightening words Phyllis Schlafly artfully used as the “magic bullet” to shoot it down: “Congress shall have the power…”
Whining is unmanly.
White men will never regain their [place in] society until we break from the rights mania of the last 165 years and go back to stressing duty again. People almost never march for equality of that!
An opportunity to plug David Goodhart's book: The British Dream: Successes and Failures of Post-war Immigration (2013) which explained a lot to me including the difference between Pakistani small village emigration and Indian big city, educated, English speaking emigration.
And so I have to mention his really great idea in his next book: The Road to Somewhere: The Populist Revolt and the Future of Politics (2017)
Somewheres vs Anywheres - the uneducated based in a particular village town or city and the educated richer Anywheres, citizens of the world.
Economically Liberal (tax and spend) but Socially conservative (can define a woman)
vs Economic conservatives (low tax for me) and Socially Liberal.
It is The way to understand Trump, Brexit and most disputes within a nation.Replies: @S
That should read ‘Pakistani settlers’ and, or, ‘colonists’.
I don’t believe Pakistanis should be treated any differently than Brits for doing the same thing, including the use of faux/loaded terminology here to cover for what is the colonizing and exploiting of another’s homeland and people. It was wrong of the Brits, whom are called ‘colonists’ and ‘settlers’, not ‘immigrants. It is wrong of the Pakistanis, and the P’s should know better.
Is Mr Goodhart maybe going to get around to writing a book about the indigenous British experience the last seventy-five years? Maybe he could call it, The British Nightmare: The Effects of Postwar Colonization Upon the British People.
Sounds like blame the victim, ‘civilizing the barbarians’ mentality. Colonization is wrong, irrespective of differences in education or perceived intelligence between exploiter and exploited.
With the exception of Greek, Europe gets by with a total of two alphabets. The differ in the details-- e.g., Russian and Ukrainian each have four letters not present in the other-- but fundamentally they're branches of the same tree.
Each Subcontinental alphabet is a different animal, as different as Roman and Cyrillic. Yes, they are all branches of the same tree. Roman, Cyrillic, and Greek are all related, too, not just to each other but to the Subcons as well. Every alphabet except hangul descends from Phoenician. (Or "Phœnician", if you prefer.)Replies: @J.Ross
abugidas
bogodas? Jill?
not present in the other
not present in either: the two are Latin and Greek, which Cyrillic straddle, and augment with Hebrew.
each of the subcontinenental alphabets are totally unique
Nope, not even close. Sinhalese is clearly very unique. Bangla is a Kufic font for Nagari.
Why white politicians all over the West keep importing Third World people is a mystery. I've never heard a comprehensive explanation yetReplies: @J.Ross, @S, @Anonymous
i can’t believe
All South Asians do 24 hours a day is nepotism. When your brother is a violent retard and your culture commands you to save him from himself, it’s a full-time job.
Why white politicians all over the West keep importing Third World people is a mystery. I've never heard a comprehensive explanation yetReplies: @J.Ross, @S, @Anonymous
Check out my post archives, including under the ‘More’ sections. This is an important subject I regularly visit.
To best sum it up, with the early 19th century introduction of wage slavery, ie specifically, the so called ‘cheap labor’/’mass immigration’ system within Anglosphere countries, in particular the United States, chattel slavery and it’s trade was monetized rather than having been abolished.
From a financial point of view, the immigrant is the slave, for whatever period of time (days, weeks, months, years) he or she is paid significantly below* what was, or, what would of been, the prevailing real time local rates for the labor, without the immigration taking place, or, the ‘immigrant’, being present.
Readily built into this system, should anyone get uppity about suffering under it, is a divide and conquer, divide and rule strategy for corrupt elites to utilize, as succinctly described on pg 4 of a 2003 academic paper which I’ve excerpted and linked below:
‘..the immigrants usually serve three main functions: cheap labor to replace native groups; settlement on the ‘frontier’ (periphery); and control over the natives and their land. These dynamics generally result in the maintenance of hegemony..’
* For instance, Chinese ‘imported’by diktat into California in the 1870’s were often being paid only about a third what everyone else was being paid for the same labor.
https://www.academia.edu/27219183/Between_urban_and_national_Political_mobilization_among_Mizrahim_in_Israel_s_development_towns_
Cheap labour is major reason for immigration to the United States. Another big reason, as mentioned, is the Democratic Party importing voters
Britain's problem stemmed from its colonial adventures, at least initially
Sweden and Germany are a mess because of the desire to be holier/less racist than thou
There are always conspiracy of Jews out destroy the Western world. Maybe a bit of truth to it- Soros lost his family in the Holocaust. Does he want revenge?
So there are several reasons why the West imports the Third World (which will eventually destroy it). But I can't help thinking there is another force at work they everyone has overlooked. Something that is a common thread through out the WestReplies: @S
We’re aware of all that.
But our Ship of State has hit an iceberg.
The time for practical action has come and gone.
We’re scrambling for lifeboats now.
The Vietnamese were quite rebellious in the Confucian group, interestingly like how France is inside NATO. And just like France, which is a Northern European and also a Mediterranean European country in one, Vietnam is both a North East Asian country and a South East Asian country. Vietnamese animosity towards China is very similar to Polish animosity towards fellow Slavic Russia.
Little Brother Korea on the other hand had become Confucian than China itself. So super Confucian infact that their Confucian society (Confucian systems are against caste systems) morphed into a kind of caste system with a Brahman like Yanban elite. And just like how the British Empire emancipated the lower castes of India, the Japanese Empire emancipated the lower castes of Korea. And even more interesting is the fact that the Independence day of South Korea from the Japanese empire is 15th August, the same as India's Independence day from the British Empire!!Replies: @Mary Marianne
I have to disagree with this comparison. Japan is nothing akin to Russia. Russia is different from Europe, because it is cross-continent and therefore influenced by two different civilizations, which is similar to countries like Turkey. Japan has no such influence to make its civilization distinct.
Japan is different from other Confucian societies like how the anglosphere is a distinctly different civilization from continental Europe. It’s called island mentality. Like the British were considered pirate nuisances, so were the Japanese considered as such. And just like the British developed delusions of grandeur when they built an empire, so did the Japanese suffer from the same type of delusions and thus started considering themselves as the “Middle Kingdom”. And just like how the British don’t want integration with the European continent (hence, why they were the first to choose Brexit), so too is Japan wary of any integration with the East Asian mainland despite the massive amounts of commerce happening between the two sides.
On the other hand, many core Chinese cultural/ governmental practices were never imported into Japan, among them the civil service examination system, the eunuch system, and the ban on marriages within the same kinship group. While in Japan there are any number of instances of marriages between cousins with the imperial family, such arrangements were absolutely forbidden in China. Japanese emperors, being “heavenly sovereigns”, had no names. This is remarkably difference from China. The names by which past Japanese emperors are known are posthumous names (okurina)-for example, Emperor Showa, the name bestowed on the previous emperor after his passing-while the reigning emperor is simply refereed to as His Majesty. The Chinese emperors, however, possess their personal names during their lifetimes.
Chinese society was a strictly patriarchal one, and women would continue to use their premarital surnames even after marriage. Women were pro forma absorbed into the extended family of their husbands, but they must keep their premarital surnames and thus remained outside the fold. As extended families normally had the same surname, marriages between members of the same extended family were not permitted. This system was not adopted in Japan, though, where the society tended to divide itself into smaller kinship groups.
During the Tokugawa shogunate, Korea, was respected and the Shogunate consciously adopted a policy of receiving envoys from Korea. As a tributary state of China, Korea used Ming era names in contacts with the Ming court and the Qing era names in dealings with the new rulers, but the Japanese rulers refused outright to do so and instead used its own era names in correspondence with Korea.
By the Edo period Japan was already creating its own unique view of the world order with Japan replacing China as the center of the civilized world. Scholars from the time of Razan Hayashi and Soko Yamaga to that of Norinaga Motoori all saw Japan as the center of civilization, and from this period emerged the conviction that Japan was the Imperishable Holy Land. Japan had no diplomatic relations with China from the beginning of the Edo Period. In fact, Japan had not maintained official diplomatic relations with China from as far back as the overthrow of the Muromachi shogunate. Even then, the Edo Period experienced a revival of Confucianism!!Replies: @Mary Marianne
"Tamils in Sri Lanka share the same language and looks as their co-ethnics in Tamil Nadu."True, but they look nothing like the Sinhalese (darker, more square featured) that they live alongside.Replies: @nebulafox, @rec1man
All South Asians are tri racial hybrid of
1) Aryan Dairy Farmer
2) Indus Valley Wheat Farmer
3) Andamanese Hunter Gatherer ( out of Africa )
Kashmir Pandit Brahmin = 30% Aryan + 60% Indus + 10% Andamanese
Kashmir Pandit Brahmins have a dna blend very close to South Europeans
South Brahmin = 20% Aryan + 55% Indus + 25% Andamanese
Sinhalese = 10% Aryan + 50% Indus + 40% Andamanese
Tamils = 5% Aryan + 45% Indus + 50% Andamanese
Sinhalese are a blend of 25% each of Buddhist Low caste Dravidians from Bengal, Odisha, Andhra and Tamil Nadu – when Buddhism died out in Mainland India, 1000s of low caste dravidian buddhists from east coast of India migrated to Sri Lanka and took up hybrid Sinhalese identity
Read the comments to this thread.
https://www.unz.com/aanglin/ivana-trump-has-died-yes-it-was-probably-the-vax/
1) Aryan Dairy Farmer
2) Indus Valley Wheat Farmer
3) Andamanese Hunter Gatherer ( out of Africa )
Kashmir Pandit Brahmin = 30% Aryan + 60% Indus + 10% Andamanese
Kashmir Pandit Brahmins have a dna blend very close to South Europeans
South Brahmin = 20% Aryan + 55% Indus + 25% Andamanese
Sinhalese = 10% Aryan + 50% Indus + 40% Andamanese
Tamils = 5% Aryan + 45% Indus + 50% Andamanese
Sinhalese are a blend of 25% each of Buddhist Low caste Dravidians from Bengal, Odisha, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - when Buddhism died out in Mainland India, 1000s of low caste dravidian buddhists from east coast of India migrated to Sri Lanka and took up hybrid Sinhalese identityReplies: @Steve Sailer
India’s population structure at the very macro level is similar to Europe’s: indigenous hunter gatherer, Middle Eastern farmer, and steppe herdsmen.
To best sum it up, with the early 19th century introduction of wage slavery, ie specifically, the so called 'cheap labor'/'mass immigration' system within Anglosphere countries, in particular the United States, chattel slavery and it's trade was monetized rather than having been abolished.
From a financial point of view, the immigrant is the slave, for whatever period of time (days, weeks, months, years) he or she is paid significantly below* what was, or, what would of been, the prevailing real time local rates for the labor, without the immigration taking place, or, the 'immigrant', being present.
Readily built into this system, should anyone get uppity about suffering under it, is a divide and conquer, divide and rule strategy for corrupt elites to utilize, as succinctly described on pg 4 of a 2003 academic paper which I’ve excerpted and linked below:
‘..the immigrants usually serve three main functions: cheap labor to replace native groups; settlement on the ‘frontier’ (periphery); and control over the natives and their land. These dynamics generally result in the maintenance of hegemony..’
* For instance, Chinese 'imported'by diktat into California in the 1870's were often being paid only about a third what everyone else was being paid for the same labor.
https://www.academia.edu/27219183/Between_urban_and_national_Political_mobilization_among_Mizrahim_in_Israel_s_development_towns_Replies: @anon
I live in Canada. Cheap labour is one reason we are overflowing with immigrants.eg the trucking industry has rapidly become Indian, Filipino servants visa , work visas for low wage coffee shop workers but that has been relatively recent. Many people have made a lot of money from immigration over a longer period of time – immigration lawyers, real estate lawyers, corporate lawyers, criminal lawyers, developers , banks, homeowners in Vancouver in Toronto. Vancouver has become the Cayman Islands for the Chinese criminal class. Another reason for immigration is the The Liberal Party (like the American Democrats) imports immigrants as voters
Cheap labour is major reason for immigration to the United States. Another big reason, as mentioned, is the Democratic Party importing voters
Britain’s problem stemmed from its colonial adventures, at least initially
Sweden and Germany are a mess because of the desire to be holier/less racist than thou
There are always conspiracy of Jews out destroy the Western world. Maybe a bit of truth to it- Soros lost his family in the Holocaust. Does he want revenge?
So there are several reasons why the West imports the Third World (which will eventually destroy it). But I can’t help thinking there is another force at work they everyone has overlooked. Something that is a common thread through out the West
England in the mid 19th century had the highest per capita incomes and wages in the world.Replies: @J.Ross, @Alden, @Anonymous
That is true, but with caveats. British workers did indeed live well compared to their foreign counterparts. This was partly due to the great wealth generated by industrialization, and partly due to the ‘free trade’ economic policies of the time, which ensured that food and other essentials were cheap, resulting in a low cost of living.
(The reason everybody thinks Victorian factory workers lived in grinding poverty is because of Charles Dickens. People forget that he was a satirist who exaggerated for comic effect. There are similar cultural misunderstandings regarding P. G. Wodehouse and ‘Theodore Dalrymple’)
The downside however is that the Victorian era was a terrible time to be a farmer in England (never mind Ireland). The same free trade policies that benefitted urban workers crucified farmers and other rural people. British agriculture entered a deep recession in the 19th century from which it only began to recover a century later (i.e. after the abandonment of free trade and the quest for national food self-sufficiency that began in World War II.)
But already by the 15th century, Western Europe was the most advanced part of the World in both civilian and military technology. Eastern Europe including Russia caught up after a delay but were still ahead of the rest of the World i.e. non white World. The Chinese (and other North East Asians) were already using water power effectively but did not reach stream power technology (or electric power or internal combustion) which propelled Europe/ West ahead enormously. Japan already emerged as the most sophisticated part of the World outside Western Europe back during the 15th century as observed by European traders/ adventurers/ missionaries.
The Great Divergence in standard of living in between the West and the Rest predates the Colonial Empires as well as Industrialization (that only increased the gap enormously) and this divergence further accelerated after de-colonization until the fall of the Soviet Union!! After the fall of the USSR and Warsaw Pact World/Mongolia etc.. the third World opened up and capital and technology flowed to the third world, actually reducing the divergence in between the West and the Rest.
In other words, the great Divergence was a phenomenon which emerged and was fueled by the historical-economical processes already inside the West from the medieval period, was quite independent from the rest of the World and more the rest of the World engaged with the modern West, they too saw an increase in their standards of living. And of all the non White nations, Japan was very uniquely placed (because of its own unique internal historical-social development since the middle ages, to take off with Western methods.Replies: @epebble
Cheap labour is major reason for immigration to the United States. Another big reason, as mentioned, is the Democratic Party importing voters
Britain's problem stemmed from its colonial adventures, at least initially
Sweden and Germany are a mess because of the desire to be holier/less racist than thou
There are always conspiracy of Jews out destroy the Western world. Maybe a bit of truth to it- Soros lost his family in the Holocaust. Does he want revenge?
So there are several reasons why the West imports the Third World (which will eventually destroy it). But I can't help thinking there is another force at work they everyone has overlooked. Something that is a common thread through out the WestReplies: @S
Care to elaborate on what that ‘force’ and, or ‘common thread’ might be?
The West has generally become much wealthier since the War with much less people on the edge . This means that fewer , at least initially, feel the negative , financial effects of immigration. The poor feel it first, then the working class, lower middle class, etc. By the time a good proportion becomes aware how importing the Third World makes you poorer, it is to late; the ball is rolling
So common threads would be 1) decline of culture/religion/identity and 2) attaining a certain level of wealth
Alden wrote to me:
No doubt.
But they did know that only women could get pregnant.
Something our current-day Leftists cannot acknowledge.
The Old Left turned out to be catastrophically wrong.
The current Left are insane.
Alden wrote:
No, some of us are pro-choice and actually agree with the substance of Roe.
But we are honest enough to admit that, under our Constitutional system, issues like this are meant to be left to the states.
I won’t like what some states will choose to do, but I am not dictator of the United States: this is a federal republic.
Or it is supposed to be.
It appears to be related to WW II. [1]
I would say that it more generally is related to the World War era.
The Classical Greek world was ruined by the Peloponnesian War, and any recovery was precluded by later wars of the Diadochi (successors to Alexander the Great). [2] The Greek genius was the small and locally governed polis (city-state). Most of the city-states produced nothing of note, but some produced the foundations of modern science and the concept of truth [3]. The Peloponnesian War lasted about 30 years, and literally killed off anybody interested in fighting — that is, all people who were willing to fight for the pre-War way of doing things. [4]
The World Wars did this for the Europeans. For the US, WW I and WW II brought down the Anglo-Saxon ethnic group, replacing them with rule by urban ethnic groups, the labor unions (more ethnic groups) and the Deep South. After JFK was killed, the US was dominated by the Jewish Coalition, who managed to push the Anglo-Saxons and the other ethnic coalition out of politics entirely, an accomplishment later extended to Europe [5]. The Jewish Coalition appears to have been displaced by Obama’s Black coalition, which has a leadership composed of second generation African immigrants such as Obama, and which has put in office a senile White man puppet, apparently in part to discredit the idea of White leadership.
Like the Greeks, the West fought about 30 years (1914-1946), and anybody remaining alive after that was not interested in fighting, and all those interested in the pre-1914 society had been killed or burned out. In the US, about a million men were exposed to intense combat, and about half of them collapsed during combat from PTSD [6]. While propaganda about “the good war” was generally believed, or at least said to be believed, this had an effect.
Further, the US economic system was completely changed during WW II. Large corporations emerged as dominant after the war; small business was greatly reduced.
And, finally, the US was still at war after 1945 — the “Cold War”. That was a central war, and the US could have been destroyed had the war gone atomic.
So the US had a machine government, democratic in form but authoritarian in fact, dominated by a non-native group with a high sense of separation from other groups. The US had no desire to fight at all (or even participate in politics, remember the “silent generation” [7]).
And it was faced with a Europe that had no desire to return to its Imperial days and re-fight the World Wars, plus a USSR that had been very badly hurt and had, as it turned out, frozen into an economic form that would self-destruct by 1990, but was still making threatening sounds and building nuclear weapons systems.
The Cold War was won, essentially, by building up allies with industry from the US. The US won the war, nuclear weapons were not used during the Cold War, but the US ended up poor and so indebted that it cannot pay off its debt.
And, like the Greeks, we’re crippled by the experience.
What seems to be happening is that the West is finally awakening from its shock, and will drastically change its form in the near future. First major event will be the Federal Republic of Germany (FRG [8]) breaking from the US so that the FRG can buy Russian Federation (RF) fuel. That will be in September/October 2022, and greatly assisted by US political disarray by that time. At that point things get serious.
It is quite possible that the West will simply recover, although that will take several decades. In the meantime, things get serious and the existing social framework will be thoroughly scrapped.
****************************************************************
1]van Creveld, “Fate off the State”, in Parameters
2] https://classicalwisdom.com/culture/history/classical-greece-golden-age-and-time-of-war/
3] Athens, Miletus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democritus . Socrates is credited with introducing the concept of truth as we know it.
4] In Athens alone, the population of free citizens, who rowed Athens’ triremes, was reduced to perhaps half by the Peloponnesian War. Since the triremes had to be rowed, the citizenship was granted to any slaves willing to row them, so by the end of the Peloponnesian War the old civil organization was gone. Athens was left with a citizen body that couldn’t look beyond the money they earned from rowing, and who always voted for dispatching a military fleet each summer in order to earn their year’s income, and Athens became a source of instability. One of the Diadochi eventually assembled such a large fleet that the Athenian Navy surrendered. The rowers were all moved to Thrace, Athens became a university town, gradually depopulated (as did the rest of Greece after the Peloponnesian war), and ceased its interest in anything other than academic politics.
5] 1964 Civil Rights Act as interpreted classified every group except Jews and Blacks as a “oppressing”, thus guilty until proven innocent if charged with the consequences of oppression by any other group. This assumption of European descended guilt was extended to the actual Europeans, who were guilty of not having done “enough” to save Jewish casualties during WW II.
6] https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/wwii-post-traumatic-stress
https://www.newsmax.com/paulfdelespinasse/ptsd-worldwarii/2021/08/24/id/1033532/
7] https://www.familysearch.org/en/blog/silent-generation-characteristics
8] Ever notice the the Federal Republic of Germany’s FRG acronym could be written FRoG? Could there be a note of French revenge here?
I will have to disagree with you on this. Russia became a distinct civilization because of many factors such as Orthodox Christianity vs Western Christianity or Eastern Slavs vs other Europeans. but before the Mongol Empire, Russians were exactly the same as other Europeans in national trajectory. the Mongol Empire led to a different type of Government structure and thus a slightly different evolution. Even then, many consider Russia as a part of Western Civilization. Russian Civilization being distinct from Western civilization is a question of debate and that is true for Japan vs other Confucian civilizations (China, Korea, Vietnam). The truth is Japan was taking a different trajectory from the Han and in some ways actually following a similar trajectory to Western/ Central Europe in some ways. Even if the Japanese are different than the West in many ways, Japan was uniquely similar to the West during its feudal period more so than even Russia or China or Korea or Vietnam or maybe even Ukraine/Belarus (but they both have been part of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth to give them some Westernisation). This was already the case during the feudal period. Western civilization since the Middle Ages is a continuation of Western Classical civilization (or all the way to ancient Sumeria) but at the same time a new and unique civilization (ancient as well as new in one), Western Civilization since the Middle ages is more of a Germanic Civilization actually. Similarly Japanese civilization is a continuation of pre-Tang Chinese civilization but also a distinct and novel civilization. Ancient and new at the same time.
As far as Britain having an island mentality, they have the right to it even if a unity of Europe is desirable too. Each and every Western nation are a unique civilization in their own way, French civilization, British civilization, German civilization, Spanish civilization, Polish civilization etc…who combined form Western civilization. As far as pirates in the far East, the “Japanese” pirates were actually a mix motley of Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Manchus, Mongols, Ainu, South East Asians etc…, they were multi-ethnic mix groups who included Chinese and Koreans. The hatred propaganda of Japan as a “pirate nation” is because the Japanese stopped being a tributary state a long time ago. British “piracy” was directed at the Spanish as revenge for the invasion of King Phillip. The British Royal Navy, like the Portuguese/French/Dutch navies before them, actually stopped piracy in the Indian ocean region and facilitated trade enormously.
Four fundamental things reached Japan from China (one of them was from India but was highly Sinified by then) which did play a big role in early Japanese history and state development. The Chinese writing system, Buddhism, Confucianism, and the Chinese legal system of centralized bureaucracy (ritsuryo). All of them were very beneficial, no doubt. But with time, the ways in which these four elements were all integrated into Japan thereafter there is a history of divergence from the origin, a strong tendency of transformation. These four fundamental principles underwent marked changes during the Heian, Kamakura, Muromachi, and Warring States Periods-in positive terms, they were Japanized; in a more negative light, some of them were used arbitrarily, abandoned undigested or changed substantially into forms unlike those in the source country of China. Chinese elements definitely made massive positive changes in Japanese culture millennia ago but Japan did, however, manage to break away from Chinese civilization sphere politically in the time of Prince Shotoku, culturally in the Heian Period to the Kamakura Period, and economically in the 16th-17th centuries, ascending step by step to eventually even surpass China in some areas. The collapse of the Tang dynasty in the 10th century marked the end of any decisive influence by Chinese Civilization on the development of Japanese Civilization, and the subsequent history of China was a bewildering alternation of order and chaos and the rise and fall of dynasties. The only constant through this history was the imperial system.
On the other hand, many core Chinese cultural/ governmental practices were never imported into Japan, among them the civil service examination system, the eunuch system, and the ban on marriages within the same kinship group. While in Japan there are any number of instances of marriages between cousins with the imperial family, such arrangements were absolutely forbidden in China. Japanese emperors, being “heavenly sovereigns”, had no names. This is remarkably difference from China. The names by which past Japanese emperors are known are posthumous names (okurina)-for example, Emperor Showa, the name bestowed on the previous emperor after his passing-while the reigning emperor is simply refereed to as His Majesty. The Chinese emperors, however, possess their personal names during their lifetimes.
Chinese society was a strictly patriarchal one, and women would continue to use their premarital surnames even after marriage. Women were pro forma absorbed into the extended family of their husbands, but they must keep their premarital surnames and thus remained outside the fold. As extended families normally had the same surname, marriages between members of the same extended family were not permitted. This system was not adopted in Japan, though, where the society tended to divide itself into smaller kinship groups.
During the Tokugawa shogunate, Korea, was respected and the Shogunate consciously adopted a policy of receiving envoys from Korea. As a tributary state of China, Korea used Ming era names in contacts with the Ming court and the Qing era names in dealings with the new rulers, but the Japanese rulers refused outright to do so and instead used its own era names in correspondence with Korea.
By the Edo period Japan was already creating its own unique view of the world order with Japan replacing China as the center of the civilized world. Scholars from the time of Razan Hayashi and Soko Yamaga to that of Norinaga Motoori all saw Japan as the center of civilization, and from this period emerged the conviction that Japan was the Imperishable Holy Land. Japan had no diplomatic relations with China from the beginning of the Edo Period. In fact, Japan had not maintained official diplomatic relations with China from as far back as the overthrow of the Muromachi shogunate. Even then, the Edo Period experienced a revival of Confucianism!!
(The reason everybody thinks Victorian factory workers lived in grinding poverty is because of Charles Dickens. People forget that he was a satirist who exaggerated for comic effect. There are similar cultural misunderstandings regarding P. G. Wodehouse and 'Theodore Dalrymple')
The downside however is that the Victorian era was a terrible time to be a farmer in England (never mind Ireland). The same free trade policies that benefitted urban workers crucified farmers and other rural people. British agriculture entered a deep recession in the 19th century from which it only began to recover a century later (i.e. after the abandonment of free trade and the quest for national food self-sufficiency that began in World War II.)Replies: @Malla
England might have already had a decent standard of living since the Middle Ages. probably already had a higher standard of living than India way back then. India of course had the largest economy (competing with China) because of excellent agricultural production, having excellent farmlands, rivers and flat lands surrounding it. This led to the support of a bigger population and more economic output/activity. But on a per capita income level, certain parts of the World was already moving ahead, especially Western Europe. Earlier, the Islamic World (Baghdad, Damascus) were the ones with high per capita income, higher than India. But as Europeans started directly trading with South/East Asia, the Islamic World lost its trad monopoly and started becoming relatively even poorer. China (and maybe Persia) traditionally had a slightly higher per capita standard of living than India because of more practical innovations (Indians were more on the theoretical side). But the gap was still slight in the pre-industrial age.
But already by the 15th century, Western Europe was the most advanced part of the World in both civilian and military technology. Eastern Europe including Russia caught up after a delay but were still ahead of the rest of the World i.e. non white World. The Chinese (and other North East Asians) were already using water power effectively but did not reach stream power technology (or electric power or internal combustion) which propelled Europe/ West ahead enormously. Japan already emerged as the most sophisticated part of the World outside Western Europe back during the 15th century as observed by European traders/ adventurers/ missionaries.
The Great Divergence in standard of living in between the West and the Rest predates the Colonial Empires as well as Industrialization (that only increased the gap enormously) and this divergence further accelerated after de-colonization until the fall of the Soviet Union!! After the fall of the USSR and Warsaw Pact World/Mongolia etc.. the third World opened up and capital and technology flowed to the third world, actually reducing the divergence in between the West and the Rest.
In other words, the great Divergence was a phenomenon which emerged and was fueled by the historical-economical processes already inside the West from the medieval period, was quite independent from the rest of the World and more the rest of the World engaged with the modern West, they too saw an increase in their standards of living. And of all the non White nations, Japan was very uniquely placed (because of its own unique internal historical-social development since the middle ages, to take off with Western methods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textile_manufacture_during_the_British_Industrial_Revolution#East_India_CompanyReplies: @Malla
But already by the 15th century, Western Europe was the most advanced part of the World in both civilian and military technology. Eastern Europe including Russia caught up after a delay but were still ahead of the rest of the World i.e. non white World. The Chinese (and other North East Asians) were already using water power effectively but did not reach stream power technology (or electric power or internal combustion) which propelled Europe/ West ahead enormously. Japan already emerged as the most sophisticated part of the World outside Western Europe back during the 15th century as observed by European traders/ adventurers/ missionaries.
The Great Divergence in standard of living in between the West and the Rest predates the Colonial Empires as well as Industrialization (that only increased the gap enormously) and this divergence further accelerated after de-colonization until the fall of the Soviet Union!! After the fall of the USSR and Warsaw Pact World/Mongolia etc.. the third World opened up and capital and technology flowed to the third world, actually reducing the divergence in between the West and the Rest.
In other words, the great Divergence was a phenomenon which emerged and was fueled by the historical-economical processes already inside the West from the medieval period, was quite independent from the rest of the World and more the rest of the World engaged with the modern West, they too saw an increase in their standards of living. And of all the non White nations, Japan was very uniquely placed (because of its own unique internal historical-social development since the middle ages, to take off with Western methods.Replies: @epebble
Prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution in the late 18th century, Mughal India was the most important manufacturing center in world trade, producing about 25% of the world’s industrial output, with the Mughal Bengal province prominent in the textile manufacturing industry. Real wages in 18th century southern India were also comparable to those in southern England at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textile_manufacture_during_the_British_Industrial_Revolution#East_India_Company
I suspect they are making this claim using the grain standard. Broadberry & Gupta found out that Indian wages was 70% of British wages on the grain standard. This is what must be misqouted by in the Wikipedia article. That is even if standard of living in India was lower than Britain, cost of living for essentials like food was cheap too. In other words like how the Indian subcontinent is even today w.r.t the West. Nothing has changed.LOL, the paper which was is linked in the Wikipedia article itself states that there is no data to prove this conclusively.
From Jeffrey G. Williamson, David Clingingsmith (August 2005). "India's Deindustrialization in the 18th and 19th Centuries
"Quantitative evidence on the overall level of economic activity in 18th and 19th century India is scant, let alone evidence on its breakdown between agriculture, industry, and services. Most of the existing assessments of deindustrialization rely on very sparse data on employment and
output shares."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textile_manufacture_during_the_British_Industrial_Revolution#East_India_CompanyReplies: @Malla
I would like to see their data. According to Broadberry and Gupta, wages in India was 20% of England on the silver standard in the early days of British contact with India. This is one of the reason, the East India Company hired so many Indian soldiers, as they were much cheaper. Also all travelers at the eve of the British conquests talk of extreme poverty in India, like nothing they had seen anywhere else. And there are tables that show that Britain had a higher per capita income than India all the way back in 1200 AD.
I suspect they are making this claim using the grain standard. Broadberry & Gupta found out that Indian wages was 70% of British wages on the grain standard. This is what must be misqouted by in the Wikipedia article. That is even if standard of living in India was lower than Britain, cost of living for essentials like food was cheap too. In other words like how the Indian subcontinent is even today w.r.t the West. Nothing has changed.
LOL, the paper which was is linked in the Wikipedia article itself states that there is no data to prove this conclusively.
From Jeffrey G. Williamson, David Clingingsmith (August 2005). “India’s Deindustrialization in the 18th and 19th Centuries
“Quantitative evidence on the overall level of economic activity in 18th and 19th century India is scant, let alone evidence on its breakdown between agriculture, industry, and services. Most of the existing assessments of deindustrialization rely on very sparse data on employment and
output shares.”
Sorry, I meant, Japanese civilization is a continuation of pre-Soong Chinese civilization which includes the Tang Dynasty period, but in its own trajectory. But it is also a new civilization in its own unique way.
Why white politicians all over the West keep importing Third World people is a mystery. I've never heard a comprehensive explanation yetReplies: @J.Ross, @S, @Anonymous
The main advantage of the Pakistanis isn’t intelligence but that they work together against outsiders, i.e. they’re a tribal people. The English, like other Western populations, have been effectively de-tribalized since WWII.
Religion has been declining in the West since the 1960s. Without Christianity as an anchor people find new, loopy ways to be sanctimonious. This results in absurd , irrational actions like Swedes importing the most misogynist, primitive Third Worlders into their country who rape Swedish women with abandon to the point where Sweden now has the highest rape rate in the world ( of any country that keeps reliable statistics.) And this from a country where women hold a lot of political power. They simple ignore their country falling apart around them and get the sanctimonious feeling of being ” not racist” They wouldn’t have to feel ‘not racist” if they had religion to ground those superior than thou impulses
The West has generally become much wealthier since the War with much less people on the edge . This means that fewer , at least initially, feel the negative , financial effects of immigration. The poor feel it first, then the working class, lower middle class, etc. By the time a good proportion becomes aware how importing the Third World makes you poorer, it is to late; the ball is rolling
So common threads would be 1) decline of culture/religion/identity and 2) attaining a certain level of wealth
LOL! And I miss your anagrams.
Thanks.
On the other hand, many core Chinese cultural/ governmental practices were never imported into Japan, among them the civil service examination system, the eunuch system, and the ban on marriages within the same kinship group. While in Japan there are any number of instances of marriages between cousins with the imperial family, such arrangements were absolutely forbidden in China. Japanese emperors, being “heavenly sovereigns”, had no names. This is remarkably difference from China. The names by which past Japanese emperors are known are posthumous names (okurina)-for example, Emperor Showa, the name bestowed on the previous emperor after his passing-while the reigning emperor is simply refereed to as His Majesty. The Chinese emperors, however, possess their personal names during their lifetimes.
Chinese society was a strictly patriarchal one, and women would continue to use their premarital surnames even after marriage. Women were pro forma absorbed into the extended family of their husbands, but they must keep their premarital surnames and thus remained outside the fold. As extended families normally had the same surname, marriages between members of the same extended family were not permitted. This system was not adopted in Japan, though, where the society tended to divide itself into smaller kinship groups.
During the Tokugawa shogunate, Korea, was respected and the Shogunate consciously adopted a policy of receiving envoys from Korea. As a tributary state of China, Korea used Ming era names in contacts with the Ming court and the Qing era names in dealings with the new rulers, but the Japanese rulers refused outright to do so and instead used its own era names in correspondence with Korea.
By the Edo period Japan was already creating its own unique view of the world order with Japan replacing China as the center of the civilized world. Scholars from the time of Razan Hayashi and Soko Yamaga to that of Norinaga Motoori all saw Japan as the center of civilization, and from this period emerged the conviction that Japan was the Imperishable Holy Land. Japan had no diplomatic relations with China from the beginning of the Edo Period. In fact, Japan had not maintained official diplomatic relations with China from as far back as the overthrow of the Muromachi shogunate. Even then, the Edo Period experienced a revival of Confucianism!!Replies: @Mary Marianne
And how is this different from when the Romans and French partially occupied the Brits, imparted their knowledge and culture onto the Brits, and, after they left, the Brits fully Anglized these elements? Even English, a Germanic language, is extremely influenced by the French, but it obviously isn’t French.
How is that different from the French never managing to fully impart the metric system on the Brits and its Anglo-American offspring?
How is that different from the Anglos creating their own unique view of the world order with the Anglo world replacing that of continental Europe as the center of the civilized world? Oh wait— I know! the main difference is that the Anglos succeeded much better in their endeavor to Anglo-fy Europe than the Japanese ever did in trying to Japanize China, because both the Brits and their American offspring are better imperialists than the Japanese ever were.
So were the Turks before Islamic conquest. In fact, when you cross borders been Turkey and Greece there’s practically no difference between the two peoples (NB: I know that’s an unpopular thing to say, because the two are longtime rivals, but it’s the truth).
And many obviously don’t, as we can witness daily from the news and from how our western politicians treat Russia today.
Just as each East Asian nation is unique in their own way. Vietnam, China, Korea, Japan and Mongolia are all unique, and even within China itself, each of the 50+ ethnic minorities is unique.
None of what you said refutes my claim that Japan is an island nation whose culture is so distinct from the mainland continent exactly because it is an island that can isolate itself when it wants to.
But I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. I stand by my point that the reason that Japanese civilization is different from Sinic civilization is the same reason that Anglo civilization is different from European civilization — and that reason is called ‘island mentally’, which is why I consider them Island Civilizations. Naturally, Russia does not have an island mentality, as it is historically not an island, therefore the comparison to Japan makes little sense to me. I would classify Russia and the smaller countries (both the European ones as well as the Central Asian ones) that surround it as part of the Russo sphere, which is a distinct Land-based Civilization unto itself.