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Open Thread: This Week's Various Trials of the Century
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Ghislaine Maxwell, Jussie Smollett, Elizabeth Holmes — what’s your take? And how many have I missed?

Commenter SafeNow writes:

If we are allowed to consider “the dog that didn’t bark” scenarios, then the trials of the century were the non-existent trials of the looters, arsonists, and shoplifters. … No actual trial is as extraordinary.

After the 2011 London riot, the Tory government tracked down a few thousand looters from security camera footage and, to their surprise, put them on trial. A decade later in the U.S., the video and, especially, facial recognition technologies are vastly improved. But criminals don’t seem scared by them.

 
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  1. My take? This country and its institutions are so thoroughly Bolshevik’ed I can’t possibly work up entertain the idea that there’s a sliver of hope that justice might actually be meted out to any member of this motley cast of characters.

    My main focus is keeping my under 10-year-olds from getting vaxxed while still allowing them to participate in society in this god-forsaken hell hole of a city thanks to DiBlasio’s latest edict.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Matthew Kelly

    Besides the simple advice of "GTFO", how about giving your kids business cards from lawyers you know to pass to any school nurse or authority who may try to pull this? I'm serious.

    My wife is always going over this "don't let them do this to you" with our 10 y/o, but it's not come nearly to that here. I'm pretty sure there are people working in the school that know I would raise holy hell.

    I wish you luck, Mr. Kelly.

    , @Known Fact
    @Matthew Kelly


    this god-forsaken hell hole of a city thanks to DiBlasio’s latest edict.
     
    Has anyone located Eric Adams and asked him about DeB's insane new proclamations -- destructive mandates that would supposedly take effect just five days before Adams takes over this smouldering hulk of a city?

    Replies: @Seneca44

  2. Seems Jussie is counting on one or two jurors to hang the jury. Not an unrealistic strategy given current conditions.

    • Replies: @TWS
    @Scott in PA

    I suspect a hung jury on jussie. Maxwell will focus like a laser on Maxwell. I can't imagine they want this to metastasize

    , @Hibernian
    @Scott in PA

    There will be tremendous pressure not to retry him. If there's a compromise verdict convicting him of one or two counts he will get the best possible legal counsel for appeal (his lawyer in this trial is an obvious clown) and probably win, maybe because the State will throw the appeal

    , @David In TN
    @Scott in PA

    I suspect there are three or four O.J. jury types in Smollett's jury. However, there is an old saying, "Never anticipate a jury."

    If the jury hangs, the Left, MSM, etc will proclaim it a victory for Smollett.

    Replies: @Hibernian

  3. Shadow of Floyd, Chauvin case hangs over Kim Potter’s trial

    By STEVE KARNOWSKI and AMY FORLITI Associated Press

    DECEMBER 6, 2021 — 11:03PM

    MINNEAPOLIS — It’s former Officer Kim Potter who’s on trial for the killing of Daunte Wright, but the trial in the same courtroom earlier this year of ex-cop Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd is casting a shadow over the proceedings.

    • Thanks: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    @Jack Armstrong

    Casting a shadow ... looming ... specter. The descriptors seem so dark.

  4. My take is that the Maxwell trial is moving along with the appearance of transparency. I haven’t heard anything in the MSM about the fact that Maxwell and Epstein were running a honeypot operation for the Mossad and perhaps other intelligence outfits. High ranking people in the US government protected Epstein and his work. That’s kind of a big deal.

    I wonder about Smollett. He was pals with Michelle O. and Kim Foxx. I wonder if the Chicago cops were supposed to be allowed to prove it was a hoax. They did excellent police work. I wonder if Jussie had some assurances ahead of time that he would be protected.

    I don’t care about the blonde with the weird fake voice.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @JimDandy

    Well, well, well...

    Testifying at his own trial on Monday, the former Empire star Jussie Smollett reportedly said under oath that he received a text message from Don Lemon informing him that Chicago police did not believe his account of what happened the night he claimed to have been the victim of a hate crime by two white Trump supporters.

    , @TWS
    @JimDandy

    I keep reading on Unz that this was all a mossad honeypot. Is that something Unz came up with, some Alex Jones level stuff? Flat earth and faked moon landing or is this serious? I know Unz has its fair share of glowies and keyboard Tourette types who have put parentheses around every damn thing. So which is this?

    Replies: @JimDandy, @PhysicistDave

  5. Someone is going to dead Maxwell before something too embarrassing comes out. Smollett will probably get a slap on his limp wrist.Holmes may avoid heavy penalties because she is a female but you never can tell.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Enemy of Earth

    'Someone is going to dead Maxwell before something too embarrassing comes out. '

    I don't think so. My belief is that Epstein said, 'get me off or I'll squeal.'

    Well, they couldn't get him off -- so they killed him.

    Ghislaine's a smart girl. She'll draw the moral and keep quiet. What's going to be interesting is what kind of sentence gets handed down.

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Enemy of Earth

    The Ghislane Mawell case is obviously part of a cover up. All through the 2000s politicians were flying the Lolita Express down to Pedo Island for sex. So to break the case you'd obviously get the manifests, find all the girls and passengers, get the financial records of the payments, get some people to roll on the others, and unwind the whole Epstein sex-for-influence operation. That's what you'd do if you put were interested, anyway.


    Instead, they are charging Maxwell solely with some ticky tack bullshit for trying to help Epstein get laid in the 90s. I hear they haven't offered any deal and have no interest in what Maxwell has to say about anyone else.

    In other words, after having Epstein whacked in prison, the feds are skipping right over anything that could implicate anyone besides the deceased Epstein himself.

    This has apparently gone without comment in our esteemed press. But Maxwell is obviously a patsy and her whole trial is a deliberate distraction to avoid going after the powerful people who flew on the Lolita Express, or figuring out who was backing this whole operation, and why.


    https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2021-11-30/explainer-what-are-the-charges-in-the-ghislaine-maxwell-sex-abuse-trial

    Replies: @Alden

  6. I think that I was your first commenter to claim that the Smollett caper was a hate hoax. I rhetorically asked whether Tawana Brawley had opened an academy to teach others the art of the racism victim hoax.

    Nothing I’ve read, seen, or heard has changed my mind. His claims smelled like week old fish the first time I read them, as cited by another commenter in an unrelated thread to which I replied.

    • Replies: @Jimbo
    @FPD72

    Please. Any commenter here knew that was a hoax the moment they heard about. I remember my wife being upset that I was laughing so hard. The only surprising thing was that it wasn't flushed down the memory hole with all the other hoaxes.

    , @JimDandy
    @FPD72

    I read the first local internet report out loud to friends and literally laughed myself to tears--literally --before I could finish it. The details just kept one-upping themselves in hilarity. But it was all just accepted as fact by the media, the Dems, etc.

    Not as funny:

    Smollett is biracial. His mother is African-American and his father is Jewish. He has said that his father would "kill you if you called him white".

  7. Holmes may avoid heavy penalties because she is a female…

    Not to mention mother of a well-timed baby.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @jamie b.



    Holmes may avoid heavy penalties because she is a female…
     
    Not to mention mother of a well-timed baby.
     
    With a high IQ.
    , @Daniel H
    @jamie b.


    Not to mention mother of a well-timed baby.
     
    Nevertheless, this is a good thing, and a reason to go easy on her in the sentencing.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    , @AKAHorace
    @jamie b.


    Holmes may avoid heavy penalties because she is a female
     
    With the 'Karen craze' happening it may be a bad time to be a tall blonde woman on trial.
    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @jamie b.

    Her defense is that these crimes were really every day screw ups that happen all the time and there wasn't ever any intent to steal anything and no biggie. Since her product was an outrageous fraud from day one you might find this ridiculous. But she got on the stand and was cross examined and the prosecutor avoided this topic completely as far as I could see in the reports.

    I don't get this at all.

    Won't surprise me a bit if she walks.

    On a similar note Gwern wrote a couple of months ago that he thinks she will make a comeback in the startup scene. A Steve-Jobs-like comeback if you want to be stupid. He didn't write that part. He isn't stupid. But the idea of her starting another company is another thing I totally do not get.

    , @MGB
    @jamie b.

    that holmes' thing is a curiosity. so many henry the K and military types, can't decide if they were drunk on the hope of getting an easy piece of the pie, or if some of the investments weren't being syphoned off by those select few.

    , @Alden
    @jamie b.

    Excellent observation is she still nursing the baby? The marriage was rather hurried too. Most women prison guards and prisoners are black. What a fate. Maybe she’ll get pregnant again soon. Prison medical staff is black too.

  8. My take is, if you really want more people participating in your open threads, you actually should publish legitimate and respectful comments sooner and drop this ridiculous passive-aggressive pseudo-censorship of yours already, ie keeping comments in moderation limbo until enough new sh*tposts bury the one where the comment was waiting for approval.

    • Replies: @Undisclosed
    @EuroNat

    Steve is unimpressed by your threat.

    You struggle to be heard. Here, there, with your wife, with your child, and in general.

    So to you, being heard is the sweet nectar of life.

    And so you erroneously presume that Steve lives for that too.

    You are an incel who thinks that a sultan lives in terror of losing his harem and dreams of nothing more than increasing it with troublesome never'beens.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    , @TWS
    @EuroNat

    You think Steve gives a rats ass about what order or even who posts? He can't be bothered to spam the Duck's sock puppets. Humans can see weird patterns in anything

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  9. https://twitter.com/TrackerTrial/status/1467914254900736012

    https://twitter.com/TrackerTrial/status/1467887421576597508

    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Thanks: YetAnotherAnon, S. Anonyia
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Finally, you're on-topic.

    What was Spacey doing on that island? I thought it was all girls. On the other hand, if Epstein's only dealing with Trump was trying to finagle a girl's way into one of his pageants, and Donald didn't bite, he comes out looking better. Who'da thunk it?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Paperback Writer, @Alexander Turok

    , @Pieties Prurient
    @JohnnyWalker123


    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.
     
    Or, perhaps, postings and commentary such as JohnnyWalker123's signature fare reveal more about what lurks deep within their authors' minds than anything else.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/this-new-pixar-movie-looks-promising/#comment-4729712


    Anonymous8090 says:
    June 19, 2021 at 1:21 am GMT

    [...]will never tire of attempting to hide their own disgusting sexual interests through projecting them in to others. People like him WISH these stories were true, only with THEM in the leading role. Much as married women gossip about young trollops and blue haired fatsos inveigh against men having their way with women. I’ll bet JohnnyO and his bedset wife can only get in the mood by watching L&O SVU.

    All of this, from modern women selling their sexuality twice, first as predators then as prey, to the gross innards of the sexually starved sinners who can’t help but expose themselves through their particular preferred dragons they white knite against, through feminist fawning over 50 shades of grey…

    All of this was so obvious for so long that it was discussed by many Greeks, even more Romans, Hindus in the manusmriti, Jews in the talmud, and by virtually every single literary tradition in history.

    Whether it’s democrats bursting with disgust (read: displaced envy) for kavanaugh or republicans drinking up the second generation byproducts of whatever Q culture as they imagine, over and over again, what sort of (fun!) depravities the more secular minded americans must be having — these degenerates never realize that all they are doing is flashing their own sagging genitals in public.

    Nobody bears greater sexual guilt than those who unwittingly rorschach their tribal enemies into sexual fiends.

    A POSTSCRIPT: Anyone who fancies himself pure of heart and deed is invited to step forward before God to cast The First Stone.

    I thought so.
     

    As Shakespeare famously put-it, The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

    Essentially Carl Jung's famous observation, encapsulated by Hermann Hesse,

    If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Gabe Ruth, @YetAnotherAnon, @Alexander Turok

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @JohnnyWalker123

    That could be...well, the truth.

    1. no grand spying

    2. no grand schemes

    3. no horror stuff- ritual murders etc.

    Basically, a prostitution ring that would be legal in other countries with lower age level of consent. Young chicks in demand, dominated by hormones & in pursuit of money & "fame". Powerful & influential older men getting what I'd call "sexual minimum" - not anything they could have dreamed of in deeper recesses of their perverted minds (S &M, bondage, orgies, various exxxtreme fetishes, ...).

    And oldies could engage in their small silly stuff (Clinton's cross-dressing) & perhaps some folksy occultism, not anything strenuous or serious. LRH need not apply.

    Prostitution with chief pimp just having a bad luck because the whole thing got out.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Rob

    , @Jack D
    @JohnnyWalker123


    In 1999 Angelina Jolie wrote this note...
     
    What's amazing to me about this trial is that the alleged criminal acts occurred 20 years and more ago. Except for murder, statutes of limitations for most crimes in the US used to be (and rightly so) quite short (and except for #MeToo crimes, they still are). If Maxwell had robbed a bank and pistol whipped the guards in 1994 instead of arranging for willing girls above the age of consent to give her boss "massages", the statute of limitations would have expired in 1999 but here she is on trial 25 years later.

    Apparently, reviving expired statutes of limitations does not constitute an "ex post facto" law prohibited by the Constitution but IMHO it should.

    Replies: @Ben tillman

    , @Ben tillman
    @JohnnyWalker123


    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.
     
    I thought Kubrick already showed us.
    , @Mina Horowitz
    @JohnnyWalker123

    As someone who's had a peek into elite circles in my life, this is not always true. That stuff is very extreme. But I will say that affairs are quite common. When you have a lot of money, power, and fame, the idea of staying faithful to your wife or husband seems like an unnecessary sacrifice. Also fraught relationships between children and parents. And spoiled, delusional, entitled children who get everything through nepotism and name recognition yet are very aware of it and it crushes them psychologically because they can never measure up to their parents, resulting in some very nasty personality types. My advice is always stay away from kids of uber famous/rich people.

  10. So far…. surely Rittenhouse has been the trial of the century. The state and media and tech sectors threw everything they had at him… lots of courtroom drama…. and he walked.

    And the riots didn’t happen (though it was probably a factor in Waukesha which the state and media and tech sectors are trying very hard to recast as a technical glitch….).

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @cliff arroyo


    So far…. surely Rittenhouse has been the trial of the century. The state and media and tech sectors threw everything they had at him… lots of courtroom drama…. and he walked.
     
    Rittenhouse was the most dramatic.

    But the "trial of the century" so far this century has been Derek Chauvin.

    A black career criminal ODs on Chauvin waiting for the ambulance--which is late due to screwed up ("affirmative action?") dispatch prioritization--while he's doing (or looks like he's doing) the knee-on-the-neck restraint producing bad optics.

    All the great and the good rush to denounce and string up the deplorable flyover country gentile for his racist, Nazi oppression of a saintly virtuous minority (a drug dealing thug).


    Chauvin was essentially the right of white police to police blacks is on trial. In effect the right of deplorable American whites to maintain their Western Christian civilized norms is put on trial.

    And the verdict is "no"--and in fact with the laughable "murder" conviction, "damn no!"

    We white gentiles have no right to live in communities or a nation with our traditional civilized norms. We are serfs, who must serve and bow and scrap before our minoritarian masters.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Prometheus Martel, @Ben tillman

  11. @Enemy of Earth
    Someone is going to dead Maxwell before something too embarrassing comes out. Smollett will probably get a slap on his limp wrist.Holmes may avoid heavy penalties because she is a female but you never can tell.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Hypnotoad666

    ‘Someone is going to dead Maxwell before something too embarrassing comes out. ‘

    I don’t think so. My belief is that Epstein said, ‘get me off or I’ll squeal.’

    Well, they couldn’t get him off — so they killed him.

    Ghislaine’s a smart girl. She’ll draw the moral and keep quiet. What’s going to be interesting is what kind of sentence gets handed down.

  12. @jamie b.

    Holmes may avoid heavy penalties because she is a female...
     
    Not to mention mother of a well-timed baby.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Daniel H, @AKAHorace, @Emil Nikola Richard, @MGB, @Alden

    Holmes may avoid heavy penalties because she is a female…

    Not to mention mother of a well-timed baby.

    With a high IQ.

  13. @JohnnyWalker123
    https://twitter.com/TrackerTrial/status/1467914254900736012

    https://twitter.com/TrackerTrial/status/1467887421576597508

    https://twitter.com/kirbysommers/status/1295588496720240640

    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Pieties Prurient, @Bardon Kaldian, @Jack D, @Ben tillman, @Mina Horowitz

    Finally, you’re on-topic.

    What was Spacey doing on that island? I thought it was all girls. On the other hand, if Epstein’s only dealing with Trump was trying to finagle a girl’s way into one of his pageants, and Donald didn’t bite, he comes out looking better. Who’da thunk it?

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    I think it's obvious from Trump's pre-2015 comments on Epstein (paraphrase: "he likes 'em young!") that he either heard, figured out, or intuited that Epstein was what he was. When this issue came up during the 2016 election, we pointed out that everything about Trump, like the women he chooses to consort with, suggests that he doesn't have hebophilic tendencies but just likes attractive adult women. Plus, because of his persona and position, he didn't need to hide his womanizing like a Clinton or Prince Andrew. These considerations and the fact that Epstein was banned from the Mar a Lago resort should be enough to put Trump in a good light.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Buzz Mohawk

    , @Paperback Writer
    @Reg Cæsar

    Re: Spacey, maybe he had "bi-curious" fantasies. Chicks were a sick turn on to him. Or maybe they provided boys. Or he brought his own beer.

    What I don't get about this is how bleeping obvious it all was. They were practically asking to be exposed and blackmailed. If you are a rich old billionaire with a taste for young flesh, you can discreetly buy as much of your preferred fare as you want. Why get involved in all of this? For the fellowship?

    Replies: @Boomthorkell, @Achmed E. Newman, @thenon

    , @Alexander Turok
    @Reg Cæsar

    Maybe they didn't know he was gay when they pulled a random celebrity name out of their a**. At this point I'm surprised nobody's accused Stephen Hawking.

  14. @jamie b.

    Holmes may avoid heavy penalties because she is a female...
     
    Not to mention mother of a well-timed baby.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Daniel H, @AKAHorace, @Emil Nikola Richard, @MGB, @Alden

    Not to mention mother of a well-timed baby.

    Nevertheless, this is a good thing, and a reason to go easy on her in the sentencing.

    • Disagree: Mike Tre, AndrewR
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Daniel H

    On the other hand, the "I was a poor ickle girlie thing totally dominated by my ruthless desi Chad lover - anything I did wrong (not that I did), he made me do" defence is very funny - unless anyone believes it.

  15. @JohnnyWalker123
    https://twitter.com/TrackerTrial/status/1467914254900736012

    https://twitter.com/TrackerTrial/status/1467887421576597508

    https://twitter.com/kirbysommers/status/1295588496720240640

    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Pieties Prurient, @Bardon Kaldian, @Jack D, @Ben tillman, @Mina Horowitz

    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.

    Or, perhaps, postings and commentary such as JohnnyWalker123’s signature fare reveal more about what lurks deep within their authors’ minds than anything else.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/this-new-pixar-movie-looks-promising/#comment-4729712

    Anonymous8090 says:
    June 19, 2021 at 1:21 am GMT

    […]will never tire of attempting to hide their own disgusting sexual interests through projecting them in to others. People like him WISH these stories were true, only with THEM in the leading role. Much as married women gossip about young trollops and blue haired fatsos inveigh against men having their way with women. I’ll bet JohnnyO and his bedset wife can only get in the mood by watching L&O SVU.

    All of this, from modern women selling their sexuality twice, first as predators then as prey, to the gross innards of the sexually starved sinners who can’t help but expose themselves through their particular preferred dragons they white knite against, through feminist fawning over 50 shades of grey…

    All of this was so obvious for so long that it was discussed by many Greeks, even more Romans, Hindus in the manusmriti, Jews in the talmud, and by virtually every single literary tradition in history.

    Whether it’s democrats bursting with disgust (read: displaced envy) for kavanaugh or republicans drinking up the second generation byproducts of whatever Q culture as they imagine, over and over again, what sort of (fun!) depravities the more secular minded americans must be having — these degenerates never realize that all they are doing is flashing their own sagging genitals in public.

    Nobody bears greater sexual guilt than those who unwittingly rorschach their tribal enemies into sexual fiends.

    A POSTSCRIPT: Anyone who fancies himself pure of heart and deed is invited to step forward before God to cast The First Stone.

    I thought so.

    As Shakespeare famously put-it, The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

    Essentially Carl Jung’s famous observation, encapsulated by Hermann Hesse,

    If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn’t part of ourselves doesn’t disturb us.

    • Disagree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Pieties Prurient

    So I hate that couple in England that were just convicted of starving and torturing that poor little boy to death because I secretly wish to do so myself? That’s pretty sophisticated.

    , @Gabe Ruth
    @Pieties Prurient

    Or as another font of wisdom has it: I am rubber, you are glue...

    Am I revealing something dark in myself if I read about Marc Dutroux and conclude Pizzagate isn't completely outside the realm of the possible?

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Pieties Prurient

    Just because some people (perhaps) are tempted by what they most desire

    a) doesn't mean they are hypocrites for condemning people. The whole point of civilisation is not giving in to every base urge one may have. It might be very pleasurable, if one had the power, to slay the partner of every pretty woman you see and take her for your own by force, just as it might be pleasurable when someone cuts into your lane to unleash a volley of missiles from the steering wheel controls and drive round the smoking ruins of their car. But that wouldn't make for civilisation, more a war of all against all. So people who condemn others for surrendering to their base urges are completely right to do so, even if - perhaps especially if - they have those urges too, but don't surrender to them. It's easy to be a saint if you've never known temptation.

    Admittedly, Epstein had (I assume) more power than Johnny123, and so his temptation was greater - but Johnny's not wrong to condemn him*.

    b) doesn't mean that everything a person condemns is something they desire. We would all (I hope) condemn child torture and murder - does that mean we all secretly want to kill a child? We all condemn those who defraud or abuse the elderly - are we all itching to do just that?

    "What isn’t part of ourselves doesn’t disturb us."

    It damn well does. You've obviously never seen someone get stabbed. People with guns, clubs, knives and ill intent disturb me, as do fraudsters, dangerous drivers (including police), avalanches, exposed ledges on mountains - the list is endless.


    * if Epstein was indeed running a Mossad blackmail ring, he seems to have been that happy soul who gets paid for doing something he enjoys, and something he might have done in his spare time anyway. And it's all for his country!

    , @Alexander Turok
    @Pieties Prurient

    +1

    The QAnon believer is immune to all dangers. One may call him a liar, idiot, nazi, violent extremist, it all runs off of him like water off a raincoat. But call him a white knight and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: ‘I’ve been found out.'

  16. Sounds like a setup to a joke:

    “A Jewish Princess, a black, and a bimbo walk into a courthouse, and ….”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @The Alarmist


    Sounds like a setup to a joke:

    “A Jewish Princess, a black, and a bimbo walk into a courthouse, and ….”
     

    Jewish Princess? You mean Jussie?

    Smollett is biracial.[9] His mother is African-American and his father is Jewish.[10]
     
    Jussie’s as Jewish as Ghislaine. Ghislaine’s mother was French Huguenot

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Bill Jones

    , @Dmon
    @The Alarmist

    “A Jewish Princess, a black, and a bimbo walk into a courthouse, and ….”

    the Bailiff says, "Please silence your cellphone, Ms. Aubrey Kaplan".

    , @Hibernian
    @The Alarmist

    Ghislaine is a Princess? Well, in some ways maybe yeah.

  17. If we are allowed to consider “the dog that didn’t bark” scenarios, then the trials of the century were the non-existent trials of the looters, arsonists, and shoplifters. When the justice-system dog recognizes an evil-doer as friendly to it, it will not bark at him with a trial. No actual trial is as extraordinary.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @SafeNow

    Well said.

    , @Danny Clover
    @SafeNow


    When the justice-system dog recognizes an evil-doer as friendly to it, it will not bark at him with a trial. No actual trial is as extraordinary.
     
    That could well be. You certainly make a compelling point.

    Is it, though, any less egregious when the converse happens? When one or more individuals, families, or institutions are subjected-to an utter sham of a trial; a travesty of justice? When a frenzy of moral panic, hysteria, and in many cases, patently ignoble and even transparently malicious motives, drive a witch hunt and libel that destroys lives and reputations?

    Few here, I have little doubt, could not readily name at least one and likely any number of cases that he is convinced presents a clear, incontrovertible example of the very phenomenon named above. How many, however, would include in their list of such examples the "2011 Penn State scandal that led to the disgrace of football coach Joe Paterno and the conviction of his former defensive coordinator, Jerry Sandusky, for child sexual abuse"*?
    (*Quote is from the James Leroy Wilson post on Substack that I link and quote further from below.)

    How many would even so much as consider the possibility that the accusations that were so successfully (and lucratively) pursued against even Paterno, let alone Sandusky, may have, in fact, been wholly or even merely largely unsubstantiated, or even entirely false?

    If Jerry Sandusky, before he dies, were to be granted a new trial...Could that not be called The Trial of the Century?



    Mark Pendegrast and John Ziegler are two individuals who, on numerous levels, it would seem could hardly be more different from each other. One area where these two men converge extensively, however, is that of the Penn State-Sandusky-Paterno affair. Both Ziegler as well as Pendegrast have, after extensive investigation into and examination and review of the evidence (most of which at most few members of the public have even been made aware of) reached the conclusion not only that Joe Paterno but even, in all likelihood, Jerry Sandusky as well, are both innocent of the accusations and charges that have ruined their lives and legacies.

    Pendegrast presents his case in his 2017 book, The Most Hated Man in America - Jerry Sandusky and the Rush to Judgment (Sunbury Press)

    Ziegler's work on the case, which includes much written material, as well as both videos and an entire series of podcasts, With The Benefit of Hindsight, can be found at
    https://www.framingpaterno.com/
    From the home page:

    an incompetent, ratings-driven media told this story in a way not consistent with the facts, or even basic logic, and are now too invested in their fairytale to ever correct their colossal errors.
    ...
    While this site began as a defense of Paterno, after investigating the case for two years and interviewing Sandusky twice in prison, it became obvious that Sandusky himself has also been done a horrendous injustice. While this revelation will be shocking to people who have not followed the case closely, if you look at the evidence here with an open mind, there is little doubt that you will come to the same conclusion.
     
    In a May 26th post entitled, Jerry Sandusky and restoring the presumption of innocence, blogger James Leroy Wilson writes that Ziegler's With The Benefit of Hindsight podcast, "includes recordings of interviews he made during his investigation as well as live interviews with guests." and that it

    provides compelling evidence that:

    1. The eyewitness to the "shower incident" changed his story numerous times, but based on his initial story, Paterno and Penn State administrators had no cause to believe any crime took place, and are NOT GUILTY of a coverup.

    2. Sandusky himself was innocent of all charges.
     
    Wilson goes on, in the same piece, to write,

    When state prosecutors want to bring someone down, their resources seem infinite while the defense is only as good as the defendant can afford. When a case becomes a media firestorm, but the public mainly hears the State's version of things, it's hard to get an unbiased jury.

    Yes, jury members have an intellectual understanding that the accused is "innocent until proven guilty." And they may be conscientious in holding to that presumption. But when the prosecutors tell the press that the accused is a monster, and jury members had heard very little else about the accused, they'll be inclined to accept a lower standard of "proof."
     

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    , @Anonymous
    @SafeNow


    When the justice-system dog recognizes an evil-doer as friendly to it, it will not bark at him with a trial. No actual trial is as extraordinary.
     
    That could well be. You certainly make a compelling point.

    Is it, though, any less egregious when the converse happens? When a trial is nothing more than a sham; a travesty of justice? When a frenzy of moral panic, hysteria, and in many cases, patently ignoble and even transparently malicious motives, drive libel that destroys lives and reputations?

    Few here, I have little doubt, could not readily name at least one and likely any number of cases that considers to be a clear, incontrovertible example of said phenomenon. How many, however, would include in their list of such examples the "2011 Penn State scandal that led to the disgrace of football coach Joe Paterno and the conviction of his former defensive coordinator, Jerry Sandusky, for child sexual abuse"*?
    (*Quote is from the James Leroy Wilson post on Substack that I link and quote further from below.)

    How many would even so much as consider the possibility that the accusations that were so successfully (and lucratively) pursued against even Paterno, let alone Sandusky, may have, in fact, been wholly or even merely largely unsubstantiated, or even entirely false?

    If Jerry Sandusky, before he dies, were to be granted a new trial...Could that not be called The Trial of the Century?

    Mark Pendegrast and John Ziegler have each presented compelling cases that at the very least, Jerry Sandusky is entitled to a new trial.

    Pendegrast presents his case in his 2017 book, The Most Hated Man in America - Jerry Sandusky and the Rush to Judgment (Sunbury Press)

    Ziegler's work on the case, which includes much written material, as well as both videos and an entire series of podcasts, With The Benefit of Hindsight, can be found at
    framingpaterno dot com *
    From the home page:

    an incompetent, ratings-driven media told this story in a way not consistent with the facts, or even basic logic, and are now too invested in their fairytale to ever correct their colossal errors.
    ...
    While this site began as a defense of Paterno, after investigating the case for two years and interviewing Sandusky twice in prison, it became obvious that Sandusky himself has also been done a horrendous injustice. While this revelation will be shocking to people who have not followed the case closely, if you look at the evidence here with an open mind, there is little doubt that you will come to the same conclusion.
     
    In a May 26th post, Jerry Sandusky and restoring the presumption of innocence, blogger James Leroy Wilson writes that Ziegler's With The Benefit of Hindsight podcast, "includes recordings of interviews he made during his investigation as well as live interviews with guests." and that it

    provides compelling evidence that:

    1. The eyewitness to the "shower incident" changed his story numerous times, but based on his initial story, Paterno and Penn State administrators had no cause to believe any crime took place, and are NOT GUILTY of a coverup.

    2. Sandusky himself was innocent of all charges.
     
    Wilson goes on, in the same piece, to write,

    When state prosecutors want to bring someone down, their resources seem infinite while the defense is only as good as the defendant can afford. When a case becomes a media firestorm, but the public mainly hears the State's version of things, it's hard to get an unbiased jury.

    Yes, jury members have an intellectual understanding that the accused is "innocent until proven guilty." And they may be conscientious in holding to that presumption. But when the prosecutors tell the press that the accused is a monster, and jury members had heard very little else about the accused, they'll be inclined to accept a lower standard of "proof."
     

    Replies: @Ben tillman

  18. @SafeNow
    If we are allowed to consider “the dog that didn’t bark” scenarios, then the trials of the century were the non-existent trials of the looters, arsonists, and shoplifters. When the justice-system dog recognizes an evil-doer as friendly to it, it will not bark at him with a trial. No actual trial is as extraordinary.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Danny Clover, @Anonymous

    Well said.

  19. @Daniel H
    @jamie b.


    Not to mention mother of a well-timed baby.
     
    Nevertheless, this is a good thing, and a reason to go easy on her in the sentencing.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    On the other hand, the “I was a poor ickle girlie thing totally dominated by my ruthless desi Chad lover – anything I did wrong (not that I did), he made me do” defence is very funny – unless anyone believes it.

  20. @FPD72
    I think that I was your first commenter to claim that the Smollett caper was a hate hoax. I rhetorically asked whether Tawana Brawley had opened an academy to teach others the art of the racism victim hoax.

    Nothing I’ve read, seen, or heard has changed my mind. His claims smelled like week old fish the first time I read them, as cited by another commenter in an unrelated thread to which I replied.

    Replies: @Jimbo, @JimDandy

    Please. Any commenter here knew that was a hoax the moment they heard about. I remember my wife being upset that I was laughing so hard. The only surprising thing was that it wasn’t flushed down the memory hole with all the other hoaxes.

    • Agree: I, Libertine, HammerJack
  21. The most infamous trial in the history of earth is clearly the highly-gamed, unblinded, exclusion-manipulated, low effect size, and data-buried Pfizer trial.

    It is an affront to science, decency, and morality; yet it has been used to force the most dangerous and non-sterilizing “vaccine” on all of mankind.

    Nothing else compares to this anti-scientific, murderous rampage.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Anarchoproctologist


    The most infamous trial in the history of earth is clearly the highly-gamed, unblinded, exclusion-manipulated, low effect size, and data-buried Pfizer trial.
     
    I agree.

    But in just 55 years you'll be able to read all about it.

    https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants-55-years-process-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/
  22. @The Alarmist
    Sounds like a setup to a joke:

    “A Jewish Princess, a black, and a bimbo walk into a courthouse, and ....”

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Dmon, @Hibernian

    Sounds like a setup to a joke:

    “A Jewish Princess, a black, and a bimbo walk into a courthouse, and ….”

    Jewish Princess? You mean Jussie?

    Smollett is biracial.[9] His mother is African-American and his father is Jewish.[10]

    Jussie’s as Jewish as Ghislaine. Ghislaine’s mother was French Huguenot

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Anonymous

    So, that makes Jussie the JAP and the black of the joke.

    I’m not sure what to make of Maxwell.

    , @Bill Jones
    @Anonymous

    Jussie was true to his heritage. The Jewish side slandered the White man, the black side screwed it up.
    Hard not to laugh.

  23. @EuroNat
    My take is, if you really want more people participating in your open threads, you actually should publish legitimate and respectful comments sooner and drop this ridiculous passive-aggressive pseudo-censorship of yours already, ie keeping comments in moderation limbo until enough new sh*tposts bury the one where the comment was waiting for approval.

    Replies: @Undisclosed, @TWS

    Steve is unimpressed by your threat.

    You struggle to be heard. Here, there, with your wife, with your child, and in general.

    So to you, being heard is the sweet nectar of life.

    And so you erroneously presume that Steve lives for that too.

    You are an incel who thinks that a sultan lives in terror of losing his harem and dreams of nothing more than increasing it with troublesome never’beens.

    • LOL: EuroNat, TWS
    • Troll: AndrewR
    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Undisclosed

    You are an incel who thinks that a sultan lives in terror of losing his harem

    Nu, if he has a wife and child as you said earlier, how is he an incel?

  24. I never understood the hubbub over Theranos to begin with. The claims the company made were outlandish and anyone who gave them money deserved to be defrauded. The trial should be for the people who were dumb enough to give her money. (FWIW, the company’s claims started out reasonably and small scale but they quickly got in over their heads when Wall Street got involved)

    It’s hard to get excited about Maxwell’s trial.The whole thing is a farce so that the government can wrap it up with a bow and move on. Just as with Epstein’s “suicide”, nothing salacious is ever going to be confirmed or made public.

    And as for Juicy Smellit, so what? The fact that there is even a trial right now says something about how dumb our society has become and how corrupt we are. That an idiot like that has any kind of fame or following or political support at all is just sad. Yes, he should have been charged, but the reason it actually went to trial is because that fool is encouraged that his celebrity and famous friends might help him get away in the end. In a same society, he would have pleaded out and no one would have encouraged him to fight the charges.

    All three of these trials are just noise intended to distract us from the mechanical hounds.

    • Agree: Gary in Gramercy
    • Replies: @Big Bill
    @JR Ewing

    Her claims were originally insane. Read her very first patent application. A pill with micropumps, arrays of tiny beads for testing blood/fluid, a dozen or more microcontainers of reagents and drugs, a computer, a battery, telecommunications circuits, etc.

    It would suck in body fluids that surrounded the gadget, do a test on them, and transmit the test results to an iPhone.

    And the whole thing was the size of a pill.

    That was her big, impossible, George Jetson idea when she was a 19 year-old dropout.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @JR Ewing

  25. @JohnnyWalker123
    https://twitter.com/TrackerTrial/status/1467914254900736012

    https://twitter.com/TrackerTrial/status/1467887421576597508

    https://twitter.com/kirbysommers/status/1295588496720240640

    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Pieties Prurient, @Bardon Kaldian, @Jack D, @Ben tillman, @Mina Horowitz

    That could be…well, the truth.

    1. no grand spying

    2. no grand schemes

    3. no horror stuff- ritual murders etc.

    Basically, a prostitution ring that would be legal in other countries with lower age level of consent. Young chicks in demand, dominated by hormones & in pursuit of money & “fame”. Powerful & influential older men getting what I’d call “sexual minimum” – not anything they could have dreamed of in deeper recesses of their perverted minds (S &M, bondage, orgies, various exxxtreme fetishes, …).

    And oldies could engage in their small silly stuff (Clinton’s cross-dressing) & perhaps some folksy occultism, not anything strenuous or serious. LRH need not apply.

    Prostitution with chief pimp just having a bad luck because the whole thing got out.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    @Bardon Kaldian

    > Basically, a prostitution ring that would be legal in other countries with lower age level of consent.

    Yeah, that was my starting point. Except young Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider, the thing that happened early on that accounted for what came afterwards.

    In his late twenties, Epstein was an intelligent, handsome, extroverted math teacher at a tony Manhattan prep school. Some time later, he was an up-and-coming Master of the Universe, living the Jet Set life thanks to hundreds of millions in Assets Under Management.

    I have had dealings with a fair number of Portfolio Managers and other institutional money types. To my knowledge, all achieved success one step at a time, through hard work (climbing through the ranks), study (MBA, CFA, PhD), and a series of smart investment decisions.

    In real life, wealthy individuals and institutions don't say, "'kay, sure, go ahead and take charge of millions of my dollars. I trust you, manage them well and lemme know how it works out." Wannabe PMs have to work really hard to get those first checks written.

    So what's Epstein's origin story? "Charming high-class procurer with access to lots of pretty young things" wouldn't seem to explain very much.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Rob
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Aren’t there European countries or Caribbean playgrounds with younger age of consent and legal prostitution, though perhaps not simultaneously? If not, it seems like an underserved market niche, considering the popularity of Epstein’s friends’ services. If so, why not avail themselves of that? Was the fantasy that Epstein sold that these were enthusiastically consenting seventeen-year-olds? Like, they could hire a prostitute, but that would feel so tawdry? All, ‘wow Bill Clinton?!? I’m not that kind of girl, but I’m so overwhelmed by your charisma that I want to...”, and they were drunk and/or coked up and wanted to believe, so they did?

    For a man who was supposed to be super-smooth and amazingly charismatic, Slick Willy (eww)pulled some women of... questionable quality. Hilary was very pretty in her prime, but Paula Jones? Did Clinton fantasize about women like Paula Jones when he was a poor boy in Arkansas, so the adult Ivy League lookers that one would think a President could have just were not his thing? He liked the twang or multi-syllable “hello” of women like Jones?

    I’ll bet Latin American Presidents laughed at him.

    “Your country is more powerful than ours, but your women...”

    “What’s wrong with American women?”

    “Nothing is wrong with American women, señor. Your women...”

  26. @Matthew Kelly
    My take? This country and its institutions are so thoroughly Bolshevik'ed I can't possibly work up entertain the idea that there's a sliver of hope that justice might actually be meted out to any member of this motley cast of characters.

    My main focus is keeping my under 10-year-olds from getting vaxxed while still allowing them to participate in society in this god-forsaken hell hole of a city thanks to DiBlasio's latest edict.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Known Fact

    Besides the simple advice of “GTFO”, how about giving your kids business cards from lawyers you know to pass to any school nurse or authority who may try to pull this? I’m serious.

    My wife is always going over this “don’t let them do this to you” with our 10 y/o, but it’s not come nearly to that here. I’m pretty sure there are people working in the school that know I would raise holy hell.

    I wish you luck, Mr. Kelly.

    • Agree: Boomthorkell
    • Thanks: Matthew Kelly
  27. I’m interested in the Kim Potter trial because it’s in my backyard and another attempt to bury a cop who really screwed the pooch. How does a veteran of many years, one who trains and supervises, make the mistake of grabbing a Glock thinking it’s a taser? Maybe girl cops working in a woke environment are a bad idea. Ironically she was justified in shooting the perp for trying to drive off but said the wrong magic phrase when she capped him.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Dan

    At this point, we have to support Potter for solidarity reasons. As for who she killed, addition by subtraction.

  28. I am happy to say that I would be following NONE of this, were it not for the few posts and many comments here in the iSteve world.

    This Smollett character is obviously just another whiny gay race hustler, Holmes has used her sex as an edge in the “TECH” business world to the chagrin of some morons who lost a few bucks, and, well, I’ve been hearing about this Maxwell for months from JohnnyWalker tweets, as a sequel to the Epstein saga, indeed a window into the massive corrupt and depraved world of the real players behind the scenes in American and other politics.

    Why should I give a crap? I know there are whiny gay race hustlers. They should be ignored. I know there are women who use their sex as an edge. I don’t invest. Of course power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I can’t take care of all those people myself, at least not at once.

    There is nothing new under the sun. Take care of things in your own world that are within your power. Throw out that TV, and get yourself off those tweet threads.

    .

    [EDIT:] I just saw J.R. Ewing’s comment after I mashed SUBMIT. Agree!

    • Replies: @Ian M.
    @Achmed E. Newman


    power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
     
    I prefer:

    Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat.
     
  29. I thought many of the BLM/Antifa looters and rioters had been identified and many even arrested – but almost none of them saw any charges brought against them.

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @Paul Rise


    I thought many of the BLM/Antifa looters and rioters had been identified and many even arrested – but almost none of them saw any charges brought against them.
     
    The FBI has told us that there is no "antifa" and never was.

    Those riots and burning buildings, "autonomous zones" etc. are all figments of your faulty imagination and/or memory.

    So BLM/Antifa is fictional. Unlike the highly organized and structured Jan. 6 Insurrection, of which the organizational tables and diagrams are still being prepared in the FBI Evidence Labs. Those thousands of hours of secret video take a lot of time to uh, process.

    Results pending trials. Meanwhile, the Usual Suspects are in prison denied bail.

    So, to summarize, "leftists/socialists/communists/anarchists" have no organizations, members, crimes or trials. "Rightists" on the other hand (a/k/a Trumpers, white supremacists, conservatives) have crimes but no trials, organizations with members awaiting prison sentences for trials to be conducted by the Democrat House Select Committee to Investigate and Imprison Members of the Jan. 6 Insurrection and Civil War Hatefest.

    Details to be announced.
  30. I read the MSM to see just how explicit the anti-white propaganda is getting. But I read the monthly reports on Unz about interracial murder to really get furious at the false impression of race and crime that the MSM give us. I live in a foreign country, and the image of America they have is very close to 100 % the same as what the Times and Post produce. R.I.P. Tony Timpa, I say, but of course he is not a saint like George Floyd.

  31. @Bardon Kaldian
    @JohnnyWalker123

    That could be...well, the truth.

    1. no grand spying

    2. no grand schemes

    3. no horror stuff- ritual murders etc.

    Basically, a prostitution ring that would be legal in other countries with lower age level of consent. Young chicks in demand, dominated by hormones & in pursuit of money & "fame". Powerful & influential older men getting what I'd call "sexual minimum" - not anything they could have dreamed of in deeper recesses of their perverted minds (S &M, bondage, orgies, various exxxtreme fetishes, ...).

    And oldies could engage in their small silly stuff (Clinton's cross-dressing) & perhaps some folksy occultism, not anything strenuous or serious. LRH need not apply.

    Prostitution with chief pimp just having a bad luck because the whole thing got out.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Rob

    > Basically, a prostitution ring that would be legal in other countries with lower age level of consent.

    Yeah, that was my starting point. Except young Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider, the thing that happened early on that accounted for what came afterwards.

    In his late twenties, Epstein was an intelligent, handsome, extroverted math teacher at a tony Manhattan prep school. Some time later, he was an up-and-coming Master of the Universe, living the Jet Set life thanks to hundreds of millions in Assets Under Management.

    I have had dealings with a fair number of Portfolio Managers and other institutional money types. To my knowledge, all achieved success one step at a time, through hard work (climbing through the ranks), study (MBA, CFA, PhD), and a series of smart investment decisions.

    In real life, wealthy individuals and institutions don’t say, “‘kay, sure, go ahead and take charge of millions of my dollars. I trust you, manage them well and lemme know how it works out.” Wannabe PMs have to work really hard to get those first checks written.

    So what’s Epstein’s origin story? “Charming high-class procurer with access to lots of pretty young things” wouldn’t seem to explain very much.

    • Agree: JMcG, Buzz Mohawk, Alden
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @ic1000

    I've been thinking along these lines, too.

    Your argument basically is: if your fortunes suddenly skyrocket, and you're not a financial wizard - unlike, say, Soros- then there is something behind the scenes & you're a front.

    Possibly.

    But, when one thinks of it- who? I know that Mossad & CIA are the best candidates, but I don't see how they could profit from these procuring schemes. All the people involved were, all of them, too Israel-friendly & there was no need to blackmail them.

    To me, it all seems to boil down to two things:

    a) Epstein was a genius as a crook, not a "real" businessman. He was a brilliant con-man.

    b) this all had been happening in a rather heavily Jewish milieu, so he could be getting some encouragement or trust from his co-ethnics, at least in the beginning.

    What sticks out is his obsession with science (Minsky, Wilczek, ..), cryogenic fantasies etc. This is something too personal I don't believe any secret service would be into it, or would have tolerated such "interests" of their puppet. His sci-fi absurd fixation is, in my view, a strong indicator that he was, basically, a self-made con-man.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @YetAnotherAnon

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @ic1000

    Thank you for starting this most interesting part of the thread. I often tend toward these people in power just getting there by good (or bad) luck. I am curious about the timeline between Mr. Epstein just being this "intelligent, handsome, extroverted math teacher at a tony Manhattan prep school" and his having a lot of control over the levers of power in the world.

    It's not like a scheme by the Mossad would be very hard to think of, nor would it be hard to implement. Guys like sex. It's job #1. Only certain people are in a position to be subject to these temptations, and the big politicians and other elites are in that position, fortunately (or not) for them. It could have been overt, and they gave him the scoop of how his life could be as the man in charge of Fantasy Island, with some serious threat if he backed out. Maybe they just gave him money and guidance to get started bootstrapping his resort operation without the big picture.

    Did Mr. Epstein know that the goal was blackmail of dozens or hundreds of important men for the purpose of control of world politics? Maybe he was kept in the dark on this, with some of the (unknown to him) Mossad henchmen in certain positions because "hey, they need jobs, and we helped you get this nice pricey resort operation going", till the end. Would he care? Maybe he started to, so that's why he ended up "killing himself" in prison.

    How easy a scheme is this one! It beats accumulating enough money to buy big chunks of industry. It beats setting up a James Bond lab and hoping some Theranos-like-cool stuff, say a super-weapon, will come out of it. It beat assassinating all kinds of people, taking a chance on discovery, and then having to repeat a lot of it when some clueless other guys who are not down with the program end up in those positions.

    I have no evidence myself, of course, but this theory, IC, sounds perfectly plausible. This discussion is making me interested in those old Johnny Walker tweets that kept shaking the web page around after all. The only thing is, as a HypnoToad wrote above, it sounds like all the real interesting stuff is being kept secret. But, of course.

  32. @Anonymous
    @The Alarmist


    Sounds like a setup to a joke:

    “A Jewish Princess, a black, and a bimbo walk into a courthouse, and ….”
     

    Jewish Princess? You mean Jussie?

    Smollett is biracial.[9] His mother is African-American and his father is Jewish.[10]
     
    Jussie’s as Jewish as Ghislaine. Ghislaine’s mother was French Huguenot

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Bill Jones

    So, that makes Jussie the JAP and the black of the joke.

    I’m not sure what to make of Maxwell.

  33. In the Maxwell trial the prosecution seems to be on the verge of collapse if all they have is information that is tangential to the specific charges that Maxwell was deliberately recruiting and trafficking underage girls for acts of prostitution with Epstein and others twenty years ago.

    It also seems apparent that there should be a few other women on trial with her.

    Let the chips fall where they may.

    Incidentally, it seems like those who are inclined to conspiracy theories believe that Epstein was murdered in prison. I don’t see any reason not to believe that he committed suicide. He could see the writing on the wall and knew that it was A Good Time To Die.

    As far as the Robert Maxwell is concerned, he might have been a spy for Israel, but his main services seem to has been in obtaining weapons for Israel shortly after World War II. That alone could account for the state funeral in Israel.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Jonathan Mason

    Thanks.
    It's always good to know the official Mossad line,

    , @Anonymous
    @Jonathan Mason

    Some guy who was in a cell near Epstein said the guards were beating on him because they thought he had money hidden somewhere. It would be ironic if he was killed by petty extortionists rather than some deep state conspiracy.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    , @JimDandy
    @Jonathan Mason

    Well, and, you know, stuff like this:

    "Shortly before Maxwell's death, a former employee of Israel's Military Intelligence Directorate, Ari Ben-Menashe, approached a number of news organisations in Britain and the US with the allegation that Maxwell and the Daily Mirror's foreign editor, Nicholas Davies, were both long-time agents for Mossad. Ben-Menashe also claimed that, in 1986, Maxwell informed the Israeli Embassy in London that Mordechai Vanunu revealed information about Israel's nuclear capability to The Sunday Times, then to the Daily Mirror. Vanunu was subsequently kidnapped by Mossad and smuggled to Israel, convicted of treason and imprisoned for eighteen years."

  34. Re possibly non-fictional trials….

    It appears the Chinese have found General Zod on the Moon.

    So, now the only question is which reporter is Superman?

    It would explain how Chris Cuomo could get to Long Island so easily and easily lift those big weights, but Superman wouldn’t need to isolate for Corona and wouldn’t be such a mendacious idiot.

    Matt Taibbi has a good jaw line, but he isn’t dorky enough. Superman’s alter ego would never write for Rolling Stone and have an electric guitar in the background of his webcam.

    That leaves… Glenn Greenwald? He’s the right tribe, a dorky enough to be an alter ego, and most likely to be attracted to wearing a skin-tight unitard.

    But if Glenn Greenwald is Superman, that means–

    Lois Lane is a beard!!

    • LOL: Gabe Ruth
    • Replies: @I, Libertine
    @Chrisnonymous

    That Chris Cuomo video, showing a man, by then in his late forties, lifting fake movie-prop weights, including standing presses of what was supposed to look like more than 225 lbs. for multiple reps with relative ease. . . I mean, anyone who's ever taken up resistance training for more than a week knew that was as phony as a fifteen-cent piece. Smollet's story was more credible.

    , @Pericles
    @Chrisnonymous

    Perhaps you haven't heard that Superman recently came out as bisexual?

    https://images.theconversation.com/files/426298/original/file-20211013-15-tspm93.jpeg

    Actually, he looks more like Supertwink in that picture. But now you know.

    , @Rob
    @Chrisnonymous

    Considering how poor China was when I was born, it is astounding that they are ahead of us in real terms. American real estate might be more expensive, but the Chinese can build cities. Can the US still land on the moon? I realize that Bruce Charlton’s “can the US land men on the moon?” test is not really the best, as there is little that can be done with the Moon unless launch costs drop a lot. But the US is not working on transformative launch tech. No fifty-kilometer-high launch towers that would cut fuel to orbit by 30%, to take one example.

    In light of China’s rise and America's relative and absolute decline, what can we learn from the Chinese way that could be applied to America? China’s growth is often derided as “catch up” growth. But if catching up is so easy, why has a huge chunk of the world not done it? Hell, peoples are living in first-world countries that cannot manage to catch up.

    Just spitballing, here are two reasons America is falling behind. The diversity tax and the lawyer tax. Both are largely optional expenses on a societal scale. At an extreme, an American Cæsar could just hang judges until a somewhat-diminished Supreme Court ruled legal challenges could be streamlined.

    Diversity tax first. It sucks up a huge portion of federal and state budgets. The fact that the bureaucracy is chock full of dimmer people than would be there if we still had the civil service exam is a massive, unrecognized cost. There’s also the huge opportunity cost of having huge chunks of the government not merely worthless, but actively harmful. Has the Department of Education ever done something useful? Wasn’t a Bush going to eliminate it? Pretty sure he raised the budget.

    The cargo cult mentality of diversity hurts us in innumerable ways. A smart department of education would look for opportunities for efficiency. They do not have to have the same negative incentives that teachers, principals, and superintendents have. Wouldn’t it be great if we could achieve the same results in K-12 that we get today for 80% of the cost? For 50%? Is there anyone in DOE that thinks this way? A useful DOE would look at all the bureaucracy that big-city schools have, Bureaucrats whose jobs are, in practice, to make teaching harder, and push hard to have big (black) cities use the money to teach kids rather than provide patronage for the people who should be running small businesses, y’know, doing useful work, but are instead educrats who work hard to keep the worst kids in classes with everyone else, so the horrible kids are not “stigmatized” by assignment to prison-school. Īf funding for those school systems had to come from local taxes, there would be pressure to streamline, get educational results, or both. Instead, there is just a money training from the state and federal government. To paraphrase a commercial, the bureaucrats do their money dance, and money rains down for “education.”

    Then there are the direct diversity taxes that businesses have to pay. So far, companies have propitiated the diversity gods with white women. This has been, in some senses not terrible, but in other ways horribly destructive. On the not-terrible side, women are not dumber than men, at least in “verbal intelligence,” which is so much more than being good at reading. Where women’s interests and abilities do not lie, in tech and engineering, they have mostly been absent, up until recently. Terrible results include the collapse in the TFR of bright women, the idea that diversity is nearly costless, and enlarging the pool of AA-eligible people to include most of the country. It has driven a wedge between the political interests of white men and women.

    The non-white diversities are eventually going to catch wise, God bless their lower “verbal intelligence” that has kept them from figuring it out and demand that quotas, or goals, or targets for diversity be calculated with white women counting as “non-diverse.” This would be a great result for the sane part of the country, by shrinking the diverse coalition, and reasonable given the supposed reasons for affirmative action. Like every white man, every white woman had white patent(s) passing down whatever privilege, meaning culture, that they had. Once white men decided to stop discriminating against women, white women were very well-positioned to run the course of honors. Education, the highway to increased income, now that Asia does all the manufacturing, has always been extremely female-dominated on the contact-with-students end. For whatever reasons, girls get better evaluations from teachers, both officially in grades and on the “fuzzier” end of how teachers treat them, give recommendations, that sort of thing. At a very minimum, women learn the accents and manners of speaking that are necessary to climb in America as well as their brothers. This is not to claim that “white privilege” is the thing that BLMers say it is, certainly “white trash” girls do not learn the proper accents at home. But pro-man women surely do.

    Blacks must get tired of women and alien diversity taking up the set-asides. How can reasonable people nudge the democrats into pushing white women off the gravy chain?

    Perhaps, though, we do not have a diversity tax so much as a NAM tax? How much do we have to pay for extra security measures that China does not, because China would handle a domestic black population much more thoroughly than we have? So far at least. But cutting the diversity tax first seems like a less “crime against humanity” way to cut the cost than directly solving the root problem.

    Back to China, they don’t have to pay the diversity taxes we do, as they are in an integrationist phase, “encouraging” minority women to marry the excess Han men and putting uppity minority men in prison camps, which at the very least, must hurt their reproductive output. Their educational system can focus on educating kids, as they don’t bene over backward to hide the stupidity and savagery of Uighurs, as we must do with blacks.

    I’m pretty sure they don’t have the problems with an over-lawyered upper class that we do. Take nuclear power. China can just build plants. I would bet money that legal expenses would be a good third of the cost of building a new nuclear plant in the US. Including the cost of the delay in opening date, and lawyering is probably 2/3 of the cost of building. Maybe nuclear plants are at the extreme end of lawyer tax, but building most anything, certainly anything big and new has huge lawyer taxes. The lawyer tax has a chilling effect on innovation, even a school superintendent who wanted to cut some of the diversity tax would not be able to because of lawyer tax. No locality can have an “if you are illegally in the country, it is illegal for you to be in x county/city,” because of lawyer tax. I believe someplace in Kansas tried to prohibit illegals from renting in the county. They had to pay (tens of?) millions in lawyer tax. To add insult and injury to injury, they had to pay the lawyer tax for the GO-NGOs that sued them. When the person you are suing has to pay your legal expenses, you have every incentive to maximize your legal expenses.

    So, diversity tax and lawyer tax. What other “taxes” do Americans have to pay to do anything that the Chinese don’t?

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

  35. The Theranos scheme seems to have been a scam from the get-go, because they never offered any explanation as to what technological advance they had made that made it possible to carry out blood chemistry and hematology lab tests that require venous blood using drops of capillary blood.

    Probably it started out as a scheme to scam some money out of elderly billionaires, then at some point it all got out of control and the perps began to believe their own hype.

    It is noticeable that nobody at all has been called as a witness who was actually involved in developing new technology for Theranos.

    I don’t see any particular point in sending Elizabeth Holmes to prison, but she should be stripped of whatever remains of her ill-gotten gains, otherwise the trial is a waste of time.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Jonathan Mason

    It is interesting that one of the board members of Theranos was none other than David Boies, a publicity-seeking lawyer-crook who is up to the neck in the Virginia Giuffre vs Prince Andrew lawsuit.

    What a coincidence!

    , @Anonymous
    @Jonathan Mason


    I don’t see any particular point in sending Elizabeth Holmes to prison
     
    Yeah, other than punishment for her crimes and destroying other peoples’ lives I don’t see any point in it.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    , @Brutusale
    @Jonathan Mason

    Ian Gibbons is unavailable to testify.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Gibbons_(biochemist)

    Holmes is a sociopath. Your continued blathering about her isn't surprising.

    , @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    Nothing remains of her ill gotten gains (she was a billionaire on paper - it was all in Theranos stock and the stock is worthless now). However, she seems to have married well and her new husband must be paying for her very expensive defense.

    Boies was not only on the board but his firm (for very large fees) served as Holmes's legal bulldog, going after people who snitched to the government and the press for leaking "trade secrets". Fighting a high powered law firm is not cheap. Tyler Schultz's parents had to mortgage their home to defend him. I only hope that George took care of this in his will.

    As you point out, Theranos had very little technology that actually worked so that their main trade secret was that they didn't have any trade secrets - they were conducting most of their lab work on conventional machines and not on Theranos "Edisons" (what is it with high tech companies stealing the name of dead white male inventors?). The closest thing to a "trade secret" was that they were taking their tiny samples and diluting them 10x with distilled water in order to have a big enough sample to run thru a normal lab test and then they would extrapolate the results back by 10x - if the lab machine said that the PSA was .5, they would report it as 5. You can imagine that this did not work very well.

    Replies: @Muggles

    , @RonaldReagansLoveChildWithMadonna2
    @Jonathan Mason

    "The Theranos scheme seems to have been a scam from the get-go,"

    I'm fascinated by this question. Was she always just a con artist or did she genuinely think she could make it work if she just tried hard enough and put the right people together? A correllary is ... what about the ostensibly smart people who were working for her? Did they drink the Kool-Aid? Did they know it was a scam? Did they know it wouldn't work but figured they would just get paid while telling her it would work?

    At the risk of ruining my latest anonymous manifestation, I spent a day with someone who was working directly under her, to guide her through the regulatory process which they had originally, supposedly naively, ignored because no one had any experience in the medical device development process (which is much different from normal tech stuff). This person was either a pathological liar or was genuinely of the belief that the product could work.

    Another data point: I spent Thanksgiving with family who are actual bad-ass medical researchers and they seem to agree with the premise that anyone with any experience what-so-ever in this area would have seen it as bullshit from a mile away.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Jack D

  36. @jamie b.

    Holmes may avoid heavy penalties because she is a female...
     
    Not to mention mother of a well-timed baby.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Daniel H, @AKAHorace, @Emil Nikola Richard, @MGB, @Alden

    Holmes may avoid heavy penalties because she is a female

    With the ‘Karen craze’ happening it may be a bad time to be a tall blonde woman on trial.

  37. The big dog that didn’t bark during the BLM riots was the utter lack of follow up on, for example, the videos of a Ryder trucks unloading bricks in alleys where the sole purpose was to provide ammunition for looters. In one instance the truck was revealed to be rented by a BLM affiliated not-for-profit funded by millions from one of the Twitterati. No charges were brought.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Bill Jones

    Interesting, that's the first I've heard about the source of all those mysterious pallets of convenient bricks. Any pointers to articles or such?

    Replies: @Bill Jones

  38. @Jonathan Mason
    In the Maxwell trial the prosecution seems to be on the verge of collapse if all they have is information that is tangential to the specific charges that Maxwell was deliberately recruiting and trafficking underage girls for acts of prostitution with Epstein and others twenty years ago.

    It also seems apparent that there should be a few other women on trial with her.

    Let the chips fall where they may.

    Incidentally, it seems like those who are inclined to conspiracy theories believe that Epstein was murdered in prison. I don't see any reason not to believe that he committed suicide. He could see the writing on the wall and knew that it was A Good Time To Die.

    As far as the Robert Maxwell is concerned, he might have been a spy for Israel, but his main services seem to has been in obtaining weapons for Israel shortly after World War II. That alone could account for the state funeral in Israel.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Anonymous, @JimDandy

    Thanks.
    It’s always good to know the official Mossad line,

    • Agree: Verymuchalive, JimDandy
  39. @Pieties Prurient
    @JohnnyWalker123


    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.
     
    Or, perhaps, postings and commentary such as JohnnyWalker123's signature fare reveal more about what lurks deep within their authors' minds than anything else.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/this-new-pixar-movie-looks-promising/#comment-4729712


    Anonymous8090 says:
    June 19, 2021 at 1:21 am GMT

    [...]will never tire of attempting to hide their own disgusting sexual interests through projecting them in to others. People like him WISH these stories were true, only with THEM in the leading role. Much as married women gossip about young trollops and blue haired fatsos inveigh against men having their way with women. I’ll bet JohnnyO and his bedset wife can only get in the mood by watching L&O SVU.

    All of this, from modern women selling their sexuality twice, first as predators then as prey, to the gross innards of the sexually starved sinners who can’t help but expose themselves through their particular preferred dragons they white knite against, through feminist fawning over 50 shades of grey…

    All of this was so obvious for so long that it was discussed by many Greeks, even more Romans, Hindus in the manusmriti, Jews in the talmud, and by virtually every single literary tradition in history.

    Whether it’s democrats bursting with disgust (read: displaced envy) for kavanaugh or republicans drinking up the second generation byproducts of whatever Q culture as they imagine, over and over again, what sort of (fun!) depravities the more secular minded americans must be having — these degenerates never realize that all they are doing is flashing their own sagging genitals in public.

    Nobody bears greater sexual guilt than those who unwittingly rorschach their tribal enemies into sexual fiends.

    A POSTSCRIPT: Anyone who fancies himself pure of heart and deed is invited to step forward before God to cast The First Stone.

    I thought so.
     

    As Shakespeare famously put-it, The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

    Essentially Carl Jung's famous observation, encapsulated by Hermann Hesse,

    If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Gabe Ruth, @YetAnotherAnon, @Alexander Turok

    So I hate that couple in England that were just convicted of starving and torturing that poor little boy to death because I secretly wish to do so myself? That’s pretty sophisticated.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon, martin_2
  40. @Jonathan Mason
    The Theranos scheme seems to have been a scam from the get-go, because they never offered any explanation as to what technological advance they had made that made it possible to carry out blood chemistry and hematology lab tests that require venous blood using drops of capillary blood.

    Probably it started out as a scheme to scam some money out of elderly billionaires, then at some point it all got out of control and the perps began to believe their own hype.

    It is noticeable that nobody at all has been called as a witness who was actually involved in developing new technology for Theranos.

    I don't see any particular point in sending Elizabeth Holmes to prison, but she should be stripped of whatever remains of her ill-gotten gains, otherwise the trial is a waste of time.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Anonymous, @Brutusale, @Jack D, @RonaldReagansLoveChildWithMadonna2

    It is interesting that one of the board members of Theranos was none other than David Boies, a publicity-seeking lawyer-crook who is up to the neck in the Virginia Giuffre vs Prince Andrew lawsuit.

    What a coincidence!

  41. @Anarchoproctologist
    The most infamous trial in the history of earth is clearly the highly-gamed, unblinded, exclusion-manipulated, low effect size, and data-buried Pfizer trial.

    It is an affront to science, decency, and morality; yet it has been used to force the most dangerous and non-sterilizing “vaccine” on all of mankind.

    Nothing else compares to this anti-scientific, murderous rampage.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    The most infamous trial in the history of earth is clearly the highly-gamed, unblinded, exclusion-manipulated, low effect size, and data-buried Pfizer trial.

    I agree.

    But in just 55 years you’ll be able to read all about it.

    https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants-55-years-process-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/

  42. “Smollett”

    Not listed by default in any “Top Stories” section on Google News.

    “Smo…” in search engine.

    Smollett does come up – 3rd listing, behind “Smoothie King” and “Smoothies”

  43. @Jonathan Mason
    The Theranos scheme seems to have been a scam from the get-go, because they never offered any explanation as to what technological advance they had made that made it possible to carry out blood chemistry and hematology lab tests that require venous blood using drops of capillary blood.

    Probably it started out as a scheme to scam some money out of elderly billionaires, then at some point it all got out of control and the perps began to believe their own hype.

    It is noticeable that nobody at all has been called as a witness who was actually involved in developing new technology for Theranos.

    I don't see any particular point in sending Elizabeth Holmes to prison, but she should be stripped of whatever remains of her ill-gotten gains, otherwise the trial is a waste of time.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Anonymous, @Brutusale, @Jack D, @RonaldReagansLoveChildWithMadonna2

    I don’t see any particular point in sending Elizabeth Holmes to prison

    Yeah, other than punishment for her crimes and destroying other peoples’ lives I don’t see any point in it.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Anonymous

    It would be better to fine her such a large amount that she would be forced to file for bankruptcy. Otherwise she could end up doing a short prison sentence and then living a life of luxury.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

  44. @Jonathan Mason
    In the Maxwell trial the prosecution seems to be on the verge of collapse if all they have is information that is tangential to the specific charges that Maxwell was deliberately recruiting and trafficking underage girls for acts of prostitution with Epstein and others twenty years ago.

    It also seems apparent that there should be a few other women on trial with her.

    Let the chips fall where they may.

    Incidentally, it seems like those who are inclined to conspiracy theories believe that Epstein was murdered in prison. I don't see any reason not to believe that he committed suicide. He could see the writing on the wall and knew that it was A Good Time To Die.

    As far as the Robert Maxwell is concerned, he might have been a spy for Israel, but his main services seem to has been in obtaining weapons for Israel shortly after World War II. That alone could account for the state funeral in Israel.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Anonymous, @JimDandy

    Some guy who was in a cell near Epstein said the guards were beating on him because they thought he had money hidden somewhere. It would be ironic if he was killed by petty extortionists rather than some deep state conspiracy.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Anonymous

    I have worked in a prison and I know how things work.

    If he was suspected of having cash on him, he would be removed from a cell, sent to the shower, his clothing and cell searched while he was in the shower, and so on.

    Why would the prison staff jeopardize their well-paid federal jobs with loads of overtime, lavish benefits, and pensions to steal cash from inmates? Or allow other inmates to kill inmates?

    Too much risk, besides which you don't understand how lazy correctional officers are. You think they want to run the risk of some sexual pervert biting them and giving them AIDS (as they would see it)?

    People who believe Epstein was murdered in prison are people whose experience of life is mostly confined to watching TV.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @JimDandy, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous

  45. @Reg Cæsar
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Finally, you're on-topic.

    What was Spacey doing on that island? I thought it was all girls. On the other hand, if Epstein's only dealing with Trump was trying to finagle a girl's way into one of his pageants, and Donald didn't bite, he comes out looking better. Who'da thunk it?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Paperback Writer, @Alexander Turok

    I think it’s obvious from Trump’s pre-2015 comments on Epstein (paraphrase: “he likes ’em young!”) that he either heard, figured out, or intuited that Epstein was what he was. When this issue came up during the 2016 election, we pointed out that everything about Trump, like the women he chooses to consort with, suggests that he doesn’t have hebophilic tendencies but just likes attractive adult women. Plus, because of his persona and position, he didn’t need to hide his womanizing like a Clinton or Prince Andrew. These considerations and the fact that Epstein was banned from the Mar a Lago resort should be enough to put Trump in a good light.

    • Agree: Ben tillman
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Chrisnonymous

    In 2019, the lawyer for one of Epstein's victims spoke to the Trump/Epstein connection.

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/07/prosecutor-in-2009-epstein-case-said-donald-trump-was-the-only-one-who-helped-him/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oclVVntP9k

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    @Chrisnonymous

    I agree. Good on you also for using a correct term, "hebophilic" to describe Epstein's interest in young adolescent girls. I would add "ephebophilic," as his tastes also included later adolescents. He is/was not a pedophile by definition.

    Replies: @Alden, @Jonathan Mason

  46. How well do you think Musk understands this issue? I would say the chances he has seen the world’s most important graph to be pretty high. Does he think the rest of us can outbreed his fellow Africans?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/07/elon-musk-civilization-will-crumble-if-we-dont-have-more-children.html

  47. @cliff arroyo
    So far.... surely Rittenhouse has been the trial of the century. The state and media and tech sectors threw everything they had at him... lots of courtroom drama.... and he walked.

    And the riots didn't happen (though it was probably a factor in Waukesha which the state and media and tech sectors are trying very hard to recast as a technical glitch....).

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    So far…. surely Rittenhouse has been the trial of the century. The state and media and tech sectors threw everything they had at him… lots of courtroom drama…. and he walked.

    Rittenhouse was the most dramatic.

    But the “trial of the century” so far this century has been Derek Chauvin.

    A black career criminal ODs on Chauvin waiting for the ambulance–which is late due to screwed up (“affirmative action?”) dispatch prioritization–while he’s doing (or looks like he’s doing) the knee-on-the-neck restraint producing bad optics.

    All the great and the good rush to denounce and string up the deplorable flyover country gentile for his racist, Nazi oppression of a saintly virtuous minority (a drug dealing thug).

    Chauvin was essentially the right of white police to police blacks is on trial. In effect the right of deplorable American whites to maintain their Western Christian civilized norms is put on trial.

    And the verdict is “no”–and in fact with the laughable “murder” conviction, “damn no!”

    We white gentiles have no right to live in communities or a nation with our traditional civilized norms. We are serfs, who must serve and bow and scrap before our minoritarian masters.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @AnotherDad

    Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

    We are only two decades into this tiresome century. There will be more and worse.

    "Trial of the Century" proclamations are silly.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @kaganovitch

    , @Prometheus Martel
    @AnotherDad

    Agree, but watch the federal civil rights trial of all 4 cops, which I expect will be a much more vigorous defense, and will include the fact that the coroner, Andrew Baker, told the FBI that Floyd died due to the stress put on on his diseased, drugged cardio system "prior to being on the ground"
    That's verbatim what the FBI wrote Baker told them. That's reasonable doubt, not sure why Chauvin didn't introduce it.

    , @Ben tillman
    @AnotherDad

    George Zimmerman’s trial is another contender for trial of the century. The great white — strike that — tri-racial defendant!

  48. OT but cute:

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @jb

    So I guess the White people sit mostly on the far right side?

  49. @AnotherDad
    @cliff arroyo


    So far…. surely Rittenhouse has been the trial of the century. The state and media and tech sectors threw everything they had at him… lots of courtroom drama…. and he walked.
     
    Rittenhouse was the most dramatic.

    But the "trial of the century" so far this century has been Derek Chauvin.

    A black career criminal ODs on Chauvin waiting for the ambulance--which is late due to screwed up ("affirmative action?") dispatch prioritization--while he's doing (or looks like he's doing) the knee-on-the-neck restraint producing bad optics.

    All the great and the good rush to denounce and string up the deplorable flyover country gentile for his racist, Nazi oppression of a saintly virtuous minority (a drug dealing thug).


    Chauvin was essentially the right of white police to police blacks is on trial. In effect the right of deplorable American whites to maintain their Western Christian civilized norms is put on trial.

    And the verdict is "no"--and in fact with the laughable "murder" conviction, "damn no!"

    We white gentiles have no right to live in communities or a nation with our traditional civilized norms. We are serfs, who must serve and bow and scrap before our minoritarian masters.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Prometheus Martel, @Ben tillman

    Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

    We are only two decades into this tiresome century. There will be more and worse.

    “Trial of the Century” proclamations are silly.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Trial of the Moment?

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    , @kaganovitch
    @Buzz Mohawk

    We are only two decades into this tiresome century. There will be more and worse.“Trial of the Century” proclamations are silly.

    I remember one of the Times film critics writing about "Battlefield Earth", Travolta's Scientology film which premiered in 2000, something along the lines of "It's not too early to declare this the worst film of the 21st century."

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Ben tillman

  50. @ic1000
    @Bardon Kaldian

    > Basically, a prostitution ring that would be legal in other countries with lower age level of consent.

    Yeah, that was my starting point. Except young Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider, the thing that happened early on that accounted for what came afterwards.

    In his late twenties, Epstein was an intelligent, handsome, extroverted math teacher at a tony Manhattan prep school. Some time later, he was an up-and-coming Master of the Universe, living the Jet Set life thanks to hundreds of millions in Assets Under Management.

    I have had dealings with a fair number of Portfolio Managers and other institutional money types. To my knowledge, all achieved success one step at a time, through hard work (climbing through the ranks), study (MBA, CFA, PhD), and a series of smart investment decisions.

    In real life, wealthy individuals and institutions don't say, "'kay, sure, go ahead and take charge of millions of my dollars. I trust you, manage them well and lemme know how it works out." Wannabe PMs have to work really hard to get those first checks written.

    So what's Epstein's origin story? "Charming high-class procurer with access to lots of pretty young things" wouldn't seem to explain very much.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Achmed E. Newman

    I’ve been thinking along these lines, too.

    Your argument basically is: if your fortunes suddenly skyrocket, and you’re not a financial wizard – unlike, say, Soros- then there is something behind the scenes & you’re a front.

    Possibly.

    But, when one thinks of it- who? I know that Mossad & CIA are the best candidates, but I don’t see how they could profit from these procuring schemes. All the people involved were, all of them, too Israel-friendly & there was no need to blackmail them.

    To me, it all seems to boil down to two things:

    a) Epstein was a genius as a crook, not a “real” businessman. He was a brilliant con-man.

    b) this all had been happening in a rather heavily Jewish milieu, so he could be getting some encouragement or trust from his co-ethnics, at least in the beginning.

    What sticks out is his obsession with science (Minsky, Wilczek, ..), cryogenic fantasies etc. This is something too personal I don’t believe any secret service would be into it, or would have tolerated such “interests” of their puppet. His sci-fi absurd fixation is, in my view, a strong indicator that he was, basically, a self-made con-man.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Bardon Kaldian

    A smart guy I know who as a teenager interned for Alan Dershowitz and knew Epstein, has gone back and forth on Mossad conspiracy theories.

    To me, listening to him, Epstein sounds like a likable blue-collar, slightly mobbed-up Jewish hustler who reminded higher class Jews like Leslie Wexner of their roots. Epstein would be played in a movie by Adam Sandler or Andy Samberg rather than by Paul Rudd or David Schwimmer or Jesse Eisenberg.

    On the other hand, Ghislaine is the daughter of a genuine James Bond Villain, Robert Maxwell. I'm guessing she thought she could mold Epstein into her father.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @JimDandy

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Bardon Kaldian

    "this is something too personal I don’t believe any secret service would be into it, or would have tolerated such “interests” of their puppet"

    Surely a secret service, just like anybody else, has to take people as they find them? Epstein's scientific interests (Pinker and Hawking were among his guests) certainly added to his "social acceptability index".

    A good agent has to have entertainment value, and Epstein certainly had that.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

  51. Hilarious; the defense in the smollett hate hoax trial attempts to force a mistrial by … committing a hate hoax against the judge!

    “ Overall, Smollett’s defense has relied on inflammatory questioning of witnesses and outbursts that have led to several heated exchanges with Judge James Linn.

    For example, in cross-examination of Ola Osundairo, after Linn directed the defense to move on from a particular line of questioning, defense attorney Tamara Walker asked for a mistrial, sobbed in court and then said the judge had “lunged” at her during a sidebar conversation.”

    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/06/us/jussie-smollett-trial-monday/index.html

    • Replies: @Hangnail Hans
    @Grimdork

    The conversion of the trial to a who/whom racial dispute continues apace. Can't really blame the defense, because it's their job to get jussie off however they can. And blacks sobbing in court because of something white men (even imaginary white men) may or may not have done is a pretty sure-fire route to success in current year America.

  52. @Jonathan Mason
    The Theranos scheme seems to have been a scam from the get-go, because they never offered any explanation as to what technological advance they had made that made it possible to carry out blood chemistry and hematology lab tests that require venous blood using drops of capillary blood.

    Probably it started out as a scheme to scam some money out of elderly billionaires, then at some point it all got out of control and the perps began to believe their own hype.

    It is noticeable that nobody at all has been called as a witness who was actually involved in developing new technology for Theranos.

    I don't see any particular point in sending Elizabeth Holmes to prison, but she should be stripped of whatever remains of her ill-gotten gains, otherwise the trial is a waste of time.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Anonymous, @Brutusale, @Jack D, @RonaldReagansLoveChildWithMadonna2

    Ian Gibbons is unavailable to testify.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Gibbons_(biochemist)

    Holmes is a sociopath. Your continued blathering about her isn’t surprising.

    • Agree: JerseyJeffersonian
  53. Here’s my pet peeve. I discovered during the Rittenhouse trial that the FBI was surveilling the whole thing from drones overhead – and filming.

    Was I the only person who was shocked by this?

    They surveilled ALL of the 2020 Summer of George riots.

    Did nothing. The FBI is supposedly a law enforcement agency, part of the DOJ.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer

    They were watching for White Nationalists, who are Public Enemy #1, not for Peaceful Protestors. Remember that this is the same FBI that denied for decades that the Mafia even existed. Turning their attention to organized crime would take away from their ability to hunt down Reds. Either that or the Mafia had film and was blackmailing J. Edgar.

    Bureacracies do not exist to carry out the Law in some impartial manner - that's impossible. There are a million laws on the books. By some accounts, the average American commits three felonies every day:

    https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229

    The bureacracy has to be given its marching orders by the people at the top. In Year X, we are conducting a War on Drugs. In Year Y, we are conducting a War on Terrorism. In 2020, we were conducting a War on White People. Didn't you notice? They really didn't try to hide it very hard.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Paperback Writer, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

  54. @jamie b.

    Holmes may avoid heavy penalties because she is a female...
     
    Not to mention mother of a well-timed baby.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Daniel H, @AKAHorace, @Emil Nikola Richard, @MGB, @Alden

    Her defense is that these crimes were really every day screw ups that happen all the time and there wasn’t ever any intent to steal anything and no biggie. Since her product was an outrageous fraud from day one you might find this ridiculous. But she got on the stand and was cross examined and the prosecutor avoided this topic completely as far as I could see in the reports.

    I don’t get this at all.

    Won’t surprise me a bit if she walks.

    On a similar note Gwern wrote a couple of months ago that he thinks she will make a comeback in the startup scene. A Steve-Jobs-like comeback if you want to be stupid. He didn’t write that part. He isn’t stupid. But the idea of her starting another company is another thing I totally do not get.

  55. @Reg Cæsar
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Finally, you're on-topic.

    What was Spacey doing on that island? I thought it was all girls. On the other hand, if Epstein's only dealing with Trump was trying to finagle a girl's way into one of his pageants, and Donald didn't bite, he comes out looking better. Who'da thunk it?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Paperback Writer, @Alexander Turok

    Re: Spacey, maybe he had “bi-curious” fantasies. Chicks were a sick turn on to him. Or maybe they provided boys. Or he brought his own beer.

    What I don’t get about this is how bleeping obvious it all was. They were practically asking to be exposed and blackmailed. If you are a rich old billionaire with a taste for young flesh, you can discreetly buy as much of your preferred fare as you want. Why get involved in all of this? For the fellowship?

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
    @Paperback Writer

    I figure, for the most part, it's an access to leverage thing.

    A circular firing squad of blackmail, so long as no one pulls the trigger, does wonders for a "supportive" community.

    The sex must be alright, too.

    I figure though billionaires must only get involved to join in on the leverage of the lessers?

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Paperback Writer

    I'm not sure if you are talking only about actors or other non-politicians here, P.W.

    For a politician, why NOT get involved in this? You get that young p**** with no press cameras around. Yes, the other cameras, about that... Why do you care? You have no principles. You're a big-time politician - there's no way you got this far with any scruples left, and then, they are blackmailing you for a reason. You will affect some policy that they want, so they NEED YOU. You could be set for life! After that ...?

    The only con I see is that once they've blackmailed you, you don't have much of a chance for any bribe money out of them.

    , @thenon
    @Paperback Writer

    You nailed it. Every famous pervert wants company to avoid the danger of standing out, like a schooling fish. On the other hand Steven Pinker probably wanted to use his perm and bleach job to be mistaken for one of the girls.

    Replies: @AKAHorace

  56. @Chrisnonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    I think it's obvious from Trump's pre-2015 comments on Epstein (paraphrase: "he likes 'em young!") that he either heard, figured out, or intuited that Epstein was what he was. When this issue came up during the 2016 election, we pointed out that everything about Trump, like the women he chooses to consort with, suggests that he doesn't have hebophilic tendencies but just likes attractive adult women. Plus, because of his persona and position, he didn't need to hide his womanizing like a Clinton or Prince Andrew. These considerations and the fact that Epstein was banned from the Mar a Lago resort should be enough to put Trump in a good light.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Buzz Mohawk

    In 2019, the lawyer for one of Epstein’s victims spoke to the Trump/Epstein connection.

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/07/prosecutor-in-2009-epstein-case-said-donald-trump-was-the-only-one-who-helped-him/

  57. @Dan
    I’m interested in the Kim Potter trial because it’s in my backyard and another attempt to bury a cop who really screwed the pooch. How does a veteran of many years, one who trains and supervises, make the mistake of grabbing a Glock thinking it’s a taser? Maybe girl cops working in a woke environment are a bad idea. Ironically she was justified in shooting the perp for trying to drive off but said the wrong magic phrase when she capped him.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    At this point, we have to support Potter for solidarity reasons. As for who she killed, addition by subtraction.

  58. @JR Ewing
    I never understood the hubbub over Theranos to begin with. The claims the company made were outlandish and anyone who gave them money deserved to be defrauded. The trial should be for the people who were dumb enough to give her money. (FWIW, the company's claims started out reasonably and small scale but they quickly got in over their heads when Wall Street got involved)

    It's hard to get excited about Maxwell's trial.The whole thing is a farce so that the government can wrap it up with a bow and move on. Just as with Epstein's "suicide", nothing salacious is ever going to be confirmed or made public.

    And as for Juicy Smellit, so what? The fact that there is even a trial right now says something about how dumb our society has become and how corrupt we are. That an idiot like that has any kind of fame or following or political support at all is just sad. Yes, he should have been charged, but the reason it actually went to trial is because that fool is encouraged that his celebrity and famous friends might help him get away in the end. In a same society, he would have pleaded out and no one would have encouraged him to fight the charges.

    All three of these trials are just noise intended to distract us from the mechanical hounds.

    Replies: @Big Bill

    Her claims were originally insane. Read her very first patent application. A pill with micropumps, arrays of tiny beads for testing blood/fluid, a dozen or more microcontainers of reagents and drugs, a computer, a battery, telecommunications circuits, etc.

    It would suck in body fluids that surrounded the gadget, do a test on them, and transmit the test results to an iPhone.

    And the whole thing was the size of a pill.

    That was her big, impossible, George Jetson idea when she was a 19 year-old dropout.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Big Bill

    Geez, it sounds like she got her idea from the 1966 movie Fantastic Voyage.


    https://www.schmetterermd.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2018/09/Fantastic-Voyage-1966-sci-fi-fantasty-adventure-Proteus-ship.jpg


    Imagine a submarine holding a team of scientists and physicians reduced to the size off red blood cells and then injected into a patient’s body in order to perform lifesaving brain surgery.


    Starring Raquel Welch as Elizabeth Holmes.


    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XHk56IS-4SY/TmTfjrrGp3I/AAAAAAAADjg/9dOdsl3Pp3o/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/raquelwelchfantasticvoyage66.jpg

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @JR Ewing
    @Big Bill

    Thank you.

    I am not all that familiar with the early technical details, I just thought the “diagnose disease with a blood test” idea made sense and then it became more and more grandiose (“a single drop of blood… at Walgreens!”) as more and more money got involved.

    But yes, what you quote from the beginning apparently is quite outlandish itself.

  59. @Anonymous
    @Jonathan Mason

    Some guy who was in a cell near Epstein said the guards were beating on him because they thought he had money hidden somewhere. It would be ironic if he was killed by petty extortionists rather than some deep state conspiracy.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    I have worked in a prison and I know how things work.

    If he was suspected of having cash on him, he would be removed from a cell, sent to the shower, his clothing and cell searched while he was in the shower, and so on.

    Why would the prison staff jeopardize their well-paid federal jobs with loads of overtime, lavish benefits, and pensions to steal cash from inmates? Or allow other inmates to kill inmates?

    Too much risk, besides which you don’t understand how lazy correctional officers are. You think they want to run the risk of some sexual pervert biting them and giving them AIDS (as they would see it)?

    People who believe Epstein was murdered in prison are people whose experience of life is mostly confined to watching TV.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    As a general rule, never attribute to malfeasance that which can be attributed to ineptitude. While to the rest of the world, Epstein was a high profile prisoner, to his dimwitted guards he was just one more old white man standing between them and getting a good night's sleep. Even now their only regret must be that his death bought them unwanted attention and disciplinary action - otherwise they could not care less whether this old cracker was dead.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jonathan Mason


    People who believe Epstein was murdered in prison are people whose experience of life is mostly confined to watching TV.
     
    On the other hand, most prisons take steps to prevent suicides, especially with inmates who have to testify in others' cases. So the official story is equally suspicious. As well as suspiciously convenient.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jonathan Mason

    It's great to read something from you when you write about something that you actually know about from experience, Jonathan.

    I agree that he was not likely murdered over some money he was assumed to have. However, have you worked in a prison with prisoners who hold information that can rat out the elites of the world?

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    , @JimDandy
    @Jonathan Mason

    Ok, so Jeffrey Dahmer killed himself. So did Whitey Bulger, and many others who I thought were murdered. Thanks for clearing that up.

    , @The Alarmist
    @Jonathan Mason

    If Cabal wanted Epstein dead, he would have been found drowned in a hot tub or something like that. Prison was a great way to fake a suicide with some other poor slob’s body wheeled out the doors while Epstein was spirited away.

    , @Anonymous
    @Jonathan Mason

    If this report is true, the guards were convinced he knew the location of a large amount of ready cash (obviously not on his person but stashed somewhere.) Large enough to make concerns over jobs, benefits and pensions irrelevant. Who could have put that idea in their heads?

  60. @The Alarmist
    Sounds like a setup to a joke:

    “A Jewish Princess, a black, and a bimbo walk into a courthouse, and ....”

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Dmon, @Hibernian

    “A Jewish Princess, a black, and a bimbo walk into a courthouse, and ….”

    the Bailiff says, “Please silence your cellphone, Ms. Aubrey Kaplan”.

    • LOL: kaganovitch
  61. @Anonymous
    @Jonathan Mason


    I don’t see any particular point in sending Elizabeth Holmes to prison
     
    Yeah, other than punishment for her crimes and destroying other peoples’ lives I don’t see any point in it.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    It would be better to fine her such a large amount that she would be forced to file for bankruptcy. Otherwise she could end up doing a short prison sentence and then living a life of luxury.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Jonathan Mason

    It would be better to fine her such a large amount that she would be forced to file for bankruptcy. Otherwise she could end up doing a short prison sentence and then living a life of luxury.

    It would appear that Ms. Holmes dreads a prison sentence more than loss of wealth,(of which she has none anymore anyway but whatever) else she could have pleaded guilty and saved millions.

  62. @Jonathan Mason
    @Anonymous

    I have worked in a prison and I know how things work.

    If he was suspected of having cash on him, he would be removed from a cell, sent to the shower, his clothing and cell searched while he was in the shower, and so on.

    Why would the prison staff jeopardize their well-paid federal jobs with loads of overtime, lavish benefits, and pensions to steal cash from inmates? Or allow other inmates to kill inmates?

    Too much risk, besides which you don't understand how lazy correctional officers are. You think they want to run the risk of some sexual pervert biting them and giving them AIDS (as they would see it)?

    People who believe Epstein was murdered in prison are people whose experience of life is mostly confined to watching TV.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @JimDandy, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous

    As a general rule, never attribute to malfeasance that which can be attributed to ineptitude. While to the rest of the world, Epstein was a high profile prisoner, to his dimwitted guards he was just one more old white man standing between them and getting a good night’s sleep. Even now their only regret must be that his death bought them unwanted attention and disciplinary action – otherwise they could not care less whether this old cracker was dead.

  63. @Pieties Prurient
    @JohnnyWalker123


    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.
     
    Or, perhaps, postings and commentary such as JohnnyWalker123's signature fare reveal more about what lurks deep within their authors' minds than anything else.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/this-new-pixar-movie-looks-promising/#comment-4729712


    Anonymous8090 says:
    June 19, 2021 at 1:21 am GMT

    [...]will never tire of attempting to hide their own disgusting sexual interests through projecting them in to others. People like him WISH these stories were true, only with THEM in the leading role. Much as married women gossip about young trollops and blue haired fatsos inveigh against men having their way with women. I’ll bet JohnnyO and his bedset wife can only get in the mood by watching L&O SVU.

    All of this, from modern women selling their sexuality twice, first as predators then as prey, to the gross innards of the sexually starved sinners who can’t help but expose themselves through their particular preferred dragons they white knite against, through feminist fawning over 50 shades of grey…

    All of this was so obvious for so long that it was discussed by many Greeks, even more Romans, Hindus in the manusmriti, Jews in the talmud, and by virtually every single literary tradition in history.

    Whether it’s democrats bursting with disgust (read: displaced envy) for kavanaugh or republicans drinking up the second generation byproducts of whatever Q culture as they imagine, over and over again, what sort of (fun!) depravities the more secular minded americans must be having — these degenerates never realize that all they are doing is flashing their own sagging genitals in public.

    Nobody bears greater sexual guilt than those who unwittingly rorschach their tribal enemies into sexual fiends.

    A POSTSCRIPT: Anyone who fancies himself pure of heart and deed is invited to step forward before God to cast The First Stone.

    I thought so.
     

    As Shakespeare famously put-it, The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

    Essentially Carl Jung's famous observation, encapsulated by Hermann Hesse,

    If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Gabe Ruth, @YetAnotherAnon, @Alexander Turok

    Or as another font of wisdom has it: I am rubber, you are glue…

    Am I revealing something dark in myself if I read about Marc Dutroux and conclude Pizzagate isn’t completely outside the realm of the possible?

    • Agree: Lurker
  64. @Paperback Writer
    Here's my pet peeve. I discovered during the Rittenhouse trial that the FBI was surveilling the whole thing from drones overhead - and filming.

    Was I the only person who was shocked by this?

    They surveilled ALL of the 2020 Summer of George riots.

    Did nothing. The FBI is supposedly a law enforcement agency, part of the DOJ.

    Replies: @Jack D

    They were watching for White Nationalists, who are Public Enemy #1, not for Peaceful Protestors. Remember that this is the same FBI that denied for decades that the Mafia even existed. Turning their attention to organized crime would take away from their ability to hunt down Reds. Either that or the Mafia had film and was blackmailing J. Edgar.

    Bureacracies do not exist to carry out the Law in some impartial manner – that’s impossible. There are a million laws on the books. By some accounts, the average American commits three felonies every day:

    The bureacracy has to be given its marching orders by the people at the top. In Year X, we are conducting a War on Drugs. In Year Y, we are conducting a War on Terrorism. In 2020, we were conducting a War on White People. Didn’t you notice? They really didn’t try to hide it very hard.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    By some accounts, the average American commits three felonies every day:
     
    Was it a mistake to admit here yesterday that I'd found a laminated pot leaf in a kid's book in a Little Free Library and kept it?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Paperback Writer

    , @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D

    Did you know that they were surveilling the mostly peaceful protests in the Summer of Floyd? When was the first you heard of this - was it my comment, or did you know before?

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D


    Remember that this is the same FBI that denied for decades that the Mafia even existed.
     
    Are you sure you have this right? My recollection is that the Feds were trying to prove the existence of the Mafia/Mob/La Cosa Nostra as an organization for decades but none of the member co-conspirators would talk and explicitly confirm its existence due to the strong oath of omerta. It wasn't until Valachi and then subsequent informant-witnesses that the existence of a definite criminal organization could be proven.

    Now, of course, any two people to the right of Mitt Romney are a "white supremacist organization" engaged in some sort of incipient "right wing domestic terror" once they talk politics together. And the fully politicized FBI denies the existence of Antifa in conformity with Democratic party political demands despite the clear outlines of an organization (they even have uniforms of a sort, and webs of funding and logistical support, which is not necessarily to say that they commit defined 'predicate acts' under RICO).

    Replies: @Jack D, @Sam Malone, @Paperback Writer, @Paperback Writer

  65. Jussie Smollett didn’t ‘stage’ a hate crime, he perpetrated one. But the whole idea of a ‘hate crime’ makes no sense anyway.

    According to his own testimony, he spends his time going to gay bathhouses, doing ‘bumps’ and making out with Nigerian bodybuilders. How are you going to punish someone like that?

  66. @JohnnyWalker123
    https://twitter.com/TrackerTrial/status/1467914254900736012

    https://twitter.com/TrackerTrial/status/1467887421576597508

    https://twitter.com/kirbysommers/status/1295588496720240640

    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Pieties Prurient, @Bardon Kaldian, @Jack D, @Ben tillman, @Mina Horowitz

    In 1999 Angelina Jolie wrote this note…

    What’s amazing to me about this trial is that the alleged criminal acts occurred 20 years and more ago. Except for murder, statutes of limitations for most crimes in the US used to be (and rightly so) quite short (and except for #MeToo crimes, they still are). If Maxwell had robbed a bank and pistol whipped the guards in 1994 instead of arranging for willing girls above the age of consent to give her boss “massages”, the statute of limitations would have expired in 1999 but here she is on trial 25 years later.

    Apparently, reviving expired statutes of limitations does not constitute an “ex post facto” law prohibited by the Constitution but IMHO it should.

    • Replies: @Ben tillman
    @Jack D

    Jack, you’re mistaken. Reviving an expired limitations period does violate the ex post facto clause (according to the courts). Extending an unexpired limitations term, however, does not.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Hangnail Hans

  67. @Jack Armstrong

    Shadow of Floyd, Chauvin case hangs over Kim Potter's trial

    By STEVE KARNOWSKI and AMY FORLITI Associated Press

    DECEMBER 6, 2021 — 11:03PM

    MINNEAPOLIS — It's former Officer Kim Potter who's on trial for the killing of Daunte Wright, but the trial in the same courtroom earlier this year of ex-cop Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd is casting a shadow over the proceedings.
     

    Replies: @Neil Templeton

    Casting a shadow … looming … specter. The descriptors seem so dark.

  68. @Bardon Kaldian
    @ic1000

    I've been thinking along these lines, too.

    Your argument basically is: if your fortunes suddenly skyrocket, and you're not a financial wizard - unlike, say, Soros- then there is something behind the scenes & you're a front.

    Possibly.

    But, when one thinks of it- who? I know that Mossad & CIA are the best candidates, but I don't see how they could profit from these procuring schemes. All the people involved were, all of them, too Israel-friendly & there was no need to blackmail them.

    To me, it all seems to boil down to two things:

    a) Epstein was a genius as a crook, not a "real" businessman. He was a brilliant con-man.

    b) this all had been happening in a rather heavily Jewish milieu, so he could be getting some encouragement or trust from his co-ethnics, at least in the beginning.

    What sticks out is his obsession with science (Minsky, Wilczek, ..), cryogenic fantasies etc. This is something too personal I don't believe any secret service would be into it, or would have tolerated such "interests" of their puppet. His sci-fi absurd fixation is, in my view, a strong indicator that he was, basically, a self-made con-man.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @YetAnotherAnon

    A smart guy I know who as a teenager interned for Alan Dershowitz and knew Epstein, has gone back and forth on Mossad conspiracy theories.

    To me, listening to him, Epstein sounds like a likable blue-collar, slightly mobbed-up Jewish hustler who reminded higher class Jews like Leslie Wexner of their roots. Epstein would be played in a movie by Adam Sandler or Andy Samberg rather than by Paul Rudd or David Schwimmer or Jesse Eisenberg.

    On the other hand, Ghislaine is the daughter of a genuine James Bond Villain, Robert Maxwell. I’m guessing she thought she could mold Epstein into her father.

    • Thanks: Boomthorkell
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Steve Sailer

    Back in Florida, who told people to "leave him alone because he is with intelligence? Why?

    The sheer amounts of money that fell on the guy are hard to explain, plus wasn't he basically gifted his Manhattan home?

    When there are so many pieces of information in a mystery as to make it all contradictory and impossible to understand, I call that "squid ink." It is a tactic designed to make the truth impossible to discern from the noise.

    We probably will never know the truth -- and since we now live in an age when "truth" is defined as whatever the "Whos" want it to be, does it really matter anymore?

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Pericles

    , @JimDandy
    @Steve Sailer

    She thought she could mold Epstein into another Robert Maxwell, Israel's superspy, who died under mysterious circumstances and "was afforded a lavish funeral in Israel, attended by Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, Israeli President Chaim Herzog, at least six serving and former heads of Israeli intelligence and many dignitaries and politicians (both government and opposition), and was buried on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem."?

    I like your theory.

  69. @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer

    They were watching for White Nationalists, who are Public Enemy #1, not for Peaceful Protestors. Remember that this is the same FBI that denied for decades that the Mafia even existed. Turning their attention to organized crime would take away from their ability to hunt down Reds. Either that or the Mafia had film and was blackmailing J. Edgar.

    Bureacracies do not exist to carry out the Law in some impartial manner - that's impossible. There are a million laws on the books. By some accounts, the average American commits three felonies every day:

    https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229

    The bureacracy has to be given its marching orders by the people at the top. In Year X, we are conducting a War on Drugs. In Year Y, we are conducting a War on Terrorism. In 2020, we were conducting a War on White People. Didn't you notice? They really didn't try to hide it very hard.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Paperback Writer, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    By some accounts, the average American commits three felonies every day:

    Was it a mistake to admit here yesterday that I’d found a laminated pot leaf in a kid’s book in a Little Free Library and kept it?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    That was one of your felonies from yesterday. Now tell us the other two.

    , @Paperback Writer
    @Reg Cæsar

    I honestly don't think I did any felonies today. Does walking around maskless indoors count?

  70. @Jonathan Mason
    @Anonymous

    I have worked in a prison and I know how things work.

    If he was suspected of having cash on him, he would be removed from a cell, sent to the shower, his clothing and cell searched while he was in the shower, and so on.

    Why would the prison staff jeopardize their well-paid federal jobs with loads of overtime, lavish benefits, and pensions to steal cash from inmates? Or allow other inmates to kill inmates?

    Too much risk, besides which you don't understand how lazy correctional officers are. You think they want to run the risk of some sexual pervert biting them and giving them AIDS (as they would see it)?

    People who believe Epstein was murdered in prison are people whose experience of life is mostly confined to watching TV.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @JimDandy, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous

    People who believe Epstein was murdered in prison are people whose experience of life is mostly confined to watching TV.

    On the other hand, most prisons take steps to prevent suicides, especially with inmates who have to testify in others’ cases. So the official story is equally suspicious. As well as suspiciously convenient.

  71. We are putting our kids in a Lutheran school because they are standing firm against masks and vax. They teach Young Earth creationism but that’s really not crazier than what’s being taught at the public school. Our Catholic parents are all aghast but the Catholic schools around here are still having high Covid anxiety.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  72. @Paperback Writer
    @Reg Cæsar

    Re: Spacey, maybe he had "bi-curious" fantasies. Chicks were a sick turn on to him. Or maybe they provided boys. Or he brought his own beer.

    What I don't get about this is how bleeping obvious it all was. They were practically asking to be exposed and blackmailed. If you are a rich old billionaire with a taste for young flesh, you can discreetly buy as much of your preferred fare as you want. Why get involved in all of this? For the fellowship?

    Replies: @Boomthorkell, @Achmed E. Newman, @thenon

    I figure, for the most part, it’s an access to leverage thing.

    A circular firing squad of blackmail, so long as no one pulls the trigger, does wonders for a “supportive” community.

    The sex must be alright, too.

    I figure though billionaires must only get involved to join in on the leverage of the lessers?

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Boomthorkell


    "access to leverage"
     
    But there are so many ways to do that. When you're rich, you can bend people to your will. See "Chinatown." But the old bastard wasn't bonking his daughter in a place where people could photograph him!

    My own explanation is this. There is a class of people so removed from reality that they really thought they were immune. The power went to their heads and corrupted them absolutely.

    In Prince Andrew's case, it's because he was raised in a bubble and he really doesn't understand how the world works. In the case of Bill Clinton, it's because he's a sicko. And deep down, he wants to get caught.

    JMO.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Alexander Turok

  73. @Pieties Prurient
    @JohnnyWalker123


    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.
     
    Or, perhaps, postings and commentary such as JohnnyWalker123's signature fare reveal more about what lurks deep within their authors' minds than anything else.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/this-new-pixar-movie-looks-promising/#comment-4729712


    Anonymous8090 says:
    June 19, 2021 at 1:21 am GMT

    [...]will never tire of attempting to hide their own disgusting sexual interests through projecting them in to others. People like him WISH these stories were true, only with THEM in the leading role. Much as married women gossip about young trollops and blue haired fatsos inveigh against men having their way with women. I’ll bet JohnnyO and his bedset wife can only get in the mood by watching L&O SVU.

    All of this, from modern women selling their sexuality twice, first as predators then as prey, to the gross innards of the sexually starved sinners who can’t help but expose themselves through their particular preferred dragons they white knite against, through feminist fawning over 50 shades of grey…

    All of this was so obvious for so long that it was discussed by many Greeks, even more Romans, Hindus in the manusmriti, Jews in the talmud, and by virtually every single literary tradition in history.

    Whether it’s democrats bursting with disgust (read: displaced envy) for kavanaugh or republicans drinking up the second generation byproducts of whatever Q culture as they imagine, over and over again, what sort of (fun!) depravities the more secular minded americans must be having — these degenerates never realize that all they are doing is flashing their own sagging genitals in public.

    Nobody bears greater sexual guilt than those who unwittingly rorschach their tribal enemies into sexual fiends.

    A POSTSCRIPT: Anyone who fancies himself pure of heart and deed is invited to step forward before God to cast The First Stone.

    I thought so.
     

    As Shakespeare famously put-it, The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

    Essentially Carl Jung's famous observation, encapsulated by Hermann Hesse,

    If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Gabe Ruth, @YetAnotherAnon, @Alexander Turok

    Just because some people (perhaps) are tempted by what they most desire

    a) doesn’t mean they are hypocrites for condemning people. The whole point of civilisation is not giving in to every base urge one may have. It might be very pleasurable, if one had the power, to slay the partner of every pretty woman you see and take her for your own by force, just as it might be pleasurable when someone cuts into your lane to unleash a volley of missiles from the steering wheel controls and drive round the smoking ruins of their car. But that wouldn’t make for civilisation, more a war of all against all. So people who condemn others for surrendering to their base urges are completely right to do so, even if – perhaps especially if – they have those urges too, but don’t surrender to them. It’s easy to be a saint if you’ve never known temptation.

    Admittedly, Epstein had (I assume) more power than Johnny123, and so his temptation was greater – but Johnny’s not wrong to condemn him*.

    b) doesn’t mean that everything a person condemns is something they desire. We would all (I hope) condemn child torture and murder – does that mean we all secretly want to kill a child? We all condemn those who defraud or abuse the elderly – are we all itching to do just that?

    “What isn’t part of ourselves doesn’t disturb us.”

    It damn well does. You’ve obviously never seen someone get stabbed. People with guns, clubs, knives and ill intent disturb me, as do fraudsters, dangerous drivers (including police), avalanches, exposed ledges on mountains – the list is endless.

    * if Epstein was indeed running a Mossad blackmail ring, he seems to have been that happy soul who gets paid for doing something he enjoys, and something he might have done in his spare time anyway. And it’s all for his country!

  74. @Big Bill
    @JR Ewing

    Her claims were originally insane. Read her very first patent application. A pill with micropumps, arrays of tiny beads for testing blood/fluid, a dozen or more microcontainers of reagents and drugs, a computer, a battery, telecommunications circuits, etc.

    It would suck in body fluids that surrounded the gadget, do a test on them, and transmit the test results to an iPhone.

    And the whole thing was the size of a pill.

    That was her big, impossible, George Jetson idea when she was a 19 year-old dropout.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @JR Ewing

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Nah, she was just scared of needles. The same impulse that drives anti-vaxxers and why my dog doesn't like going to the vet.

    We tend to overthink things - so much of life comes down to basic impulses. Epstein liked to get off. Holmes - scare of needles. Jussie liked being famous.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Jack Armstrong, @Mike Tre, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

  75. @Jonathan Mason
    The Theranos scheme seems to have been a scam from the get-go, because they never offered any explanation as to what technological advance they had made that made it possible to carry out blood chemistry and hematology lab tests that require venous blood using drops of capillary blood.

    Probably it started out as a scheme to scam some money out of elderly billionaires, then at some point it all got out of control and the perps began to believe their own hype.

    It is noticeable that nobody at all has been called as a witness who was actually involved in developing new technology for Theranos.

    I don't see any particular point in sending Elizabeth Holmes to prison, but she should be stripped of whatever remains of her ill-gotten gains, otherwise the trial is a waste of time.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Anonymous, @Brutusale, @Jack D, @RonaldReagansLoveChildWithMadonna2

    Nothing remains of her ill gotten gains (she was a billionaire on paper – it was all in Theranos stock and the stock is worthless now). However, she seems to have married well and her new husband must be paying for her very expensive defense.

    Boies was not only on the board but his firm (for very large fees) served as Holmes’s legal bulldog, going after people who snitched to the government and the press for leaking “trade secrets”. Fighting a high powered law firm is not cheap. Tyler Schultz’s parents had to mortgage their home to defend him. I only hope that George took care of this in his will.

    As you point out, Theranos had very little technology that actually worked so that their main trade secret was that they didn’t have any trade secrets – they were conducting most of their lab work on conventional machines and not on Theranos “Edisons” (what is it with high tech companies stealing the name of dead white male inventors?). The closest thing to a “trade secret” was that they were taking their tiny samples and diluting them 10x with distilled water in order to have a big enough sample to run thru a normal lab test and then they would extrapolate the results back by 10x – if the lab machine said that the PSA was .5, they would report it as 5. You can imagine that this did not work very well.

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @Jack D

    I have both read and been told by several medical professionals, including phlebotomists (techs who draw blood) that the blood drawn from the skin-only isn't valid for nearly all blood related tests.

    Which is why they draw from veins.

    It has something to do with the blood composition and mix in the dermis as opposed to the overall circulatory systems. Insufficient quantity and thinness of the stuff.

    I have yet to read this fact or idea mentioned in the context of the Theranos hoax. I'm not sure if or how they addressed this problem.

    One would assume that this would be a major problem for Holmes & Company. Or did they just use Liz's batted eyelashes to assume this away.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

  76. @Steve Sailer
    @Bardon Kaldian

    A smart guy I know who as a teenager interned for Alan Dershowitz and knew Epstein, has gone back and forth on Mossad conspiracy theories.

    To me, listening to him, Epstein sounds like a likable blue-collar, slightly mobbed-up Jewish hustler who reminded higher class Jews like Leslie Wexner of their roots. Epstein would be played in a movie by Adam Sandler or Andy Samberg rather than by Paul Rudd or David Schwimmer or Jesse Eisenberg.

    On the other hand, Ghislaine is the daughter of a genuine James Bond Villain, Robert Maxwell. I'm guessing she thought she could mold Epstein into her father.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @JimDandy

    Back in Florida, who told people to “leave him alone because he is with intelligence? Why?

    The sheer amounts of money that fell on the guy are hard to explain, plus wasn’t he basically gifted his Manhattan home?

    When there are so many pieces of information in a mystery as to make it all contradictory and impossible to understand, I call that “squid ink.” It is a tactic designed to make the truth impossible to discern from the noise.

    We probably will never know the truth — and since we now live in an age when “truth” is defined as whatever the “Whos” want it to be, does it really matter anymore?

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Buzz Mohawk


    Back in Florida, who told people to “leave him alone because he is with intelligence? Why?

    The sheer amounts of money that fell on the guy are hard to explain, plus wasn’t he basically gifted his Manhattan home?
     
    It's probably pretty easy to fake being "with intelligence" to local prosecutors or even a U.S. Attorney if you have powerful friends, or at least people indebted to you because you have tapes of them committing felonies. I'd dare say that it might be the preferred explanation, because it is a cover story that 1) explains the secrecy about your origins and wealth; and, 2) explains why you get away with crimes, and should continue to get away with crimes.

    That said, I wouldn't rule out that he may have actually been "with intelligence." It's just that for the purposes of some of this stuff it starts not to matter so much whether it was true or just perception.

    When there are so many pieces of information in a mystery as to make it all contradictory and impossible to understand, I call that “squid ink.” It is a tactic designed to make the truth impossible to discern from the noise.
     
    I think that in a case like this, "squid ink" should refer to the fodder for false conspiracy theories that the powers that be have and will continue to release. "Conspiracy theories" serve the powerful in cases like this because they direct public attention towards ridiculous stories and away from the true nexus of power to Epstein and Maxwell. Eventually low information news consumers will have a choice between believing that Epstein and Maxwell were intergalactic lizard people in human skin suits or just two insane sex maniacs with money, and they will choose the latter which will serve obscure the truth.

    Replies: @Alden

    , @Pericles
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I mean, it's not all that difficult. Epstein was funded by Wexler (owner of Victoria's Secret, who handed him all that money to manage and the NYC townhouse) while Maxwell (international woman of mystery) was his handler and helper, all so that Mossad could obtain blackmail material on US elites (and, incidentally or not, some others). I'd bet that's basically the story.

  77. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Big Bill

    Geez, it sounds like she got her idea from the 1966 movie Fantastic Voyage.


    https://www.schmetterermd.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2018/09/Fantastic-Voyage-1966-sci-fi-fantasty-adventure-Proteus-ship.jpg


    Imagine a submarine holding a team of scientists and physicians reduced to the size off red blood cells and then injected into a patient’s body in order to perform lifesaving brain surgery.


    Starring Raquel Welch as Elizabeth Holmes.


    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XHk56IS-4SY/TmTfjrrGp3I/AAAAAAAADjg/9dOdsl3Pp3o/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/raquelwelchfantasticvoyage66.jpg

    Replies: @Jack D

    Nah, she was just scared of needles. The same impulse that drives anti-vaxxers and why my dog doesn’t like going to the vet.

    We tend to overthink things – so much of life comes down to basic impulses. Epstein liked to get off. Holmes – scare of needles. Jussie liked being famous.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Jack D

    "she was just scared of needles. The same impulse that drives anti-vaxxers"

    For an intelligent and well read man, you don't half talk some nonsense sometimes. I'm not even sure it's conscious - it just leaks out occasionally.


    On that topic, if any of you know someone who takes rituximab, e.g. for rheumatoid arthritis (isn't that what saved our host back in the day?), it may be (consult a physician) that they should continue to shield even after being vaxxed, as the immunosuppressant effect means they don't develop antibodies (and the vaccine is presumably useless, though the Guardian leaves that implication alone).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/dec/07/michele-brown-was-vaccinated-but-had-a-suppressed-immune-system-would-better-health-advice-have-saved-her

    https://creakyjoints.org/living-with-arthritis/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-rituximab/

    , @Jack Armstrong
    @Jack D

    Derek Chauvin?

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Mike Tre
    @Jack D

    "he was just scared of needles. The same impulse that drives anti-vaxxers "

    This is a lie you made up.

    , @Captain Tripps
    @Jack D

    Hmm. Never thought Mason and I would agree on something! Gotta love iSteve!

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    The same impulse that drives anti-vaxxers...
     
    Calling Covid skeptics "anti-vaxxers" is like calling Bill Cosby's accusers "white supremacists".
  78. @SafeNow
    If we are allowed to consider “the dog that didn’t bark” scenarios, then the trials of the century were the non-existent trials of the looters, arsonists, and shoplifters. When the justice-system dog recognizes an evil-doer as friendly to it, it will not bark at him with a trial. No actual trial is as extraordinary.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Danny Clover, @Anonymous

    When the justice-system dog recognizes an evil-doer as friendly to it, it will not bark at him with a trial. No actual trial is as extraordinary.

    That could well be. You certainly make a compelling point.

    Is it, though, any less egregious when the converse happens? When one or more individuals, families, or institutions are subjected-to an utter sham of a trial; a travesty of justice? When a frenzy of moral panic, hysteria, and in many cases, patently ignoble and even transparently malicious motives, drive a witch hunt and libel that destroys lives and reputations?

    Few here, I have little doubt, could not readily name at least one and likely any number of cases that he is convinced presents a clear, incontrovertible example of the very phenomenon named above. How many, however, would include in their list of such examples the “2011 Penn State scandal that led to the disgrace of football coach Joe Paterno and the conviction of his former defensive coordinator, Jerry Sandusky, for child sexual abuse”*?
    (*Quote is from the James Leroy Wilson post on Substack that I link and quote further from below.)

    How many would even so much as consider the possibility that the accusations that were so successfully (and lucratively) pursued against even Paterno, let alone Sandusky, may have, in fact, been wholly or even merely largely unsubstantiated, or even entirely false?

    If Jerry Sandusky, before he dies, were to be granted a new trial…Could that not be called The Trial of the Century?

    [MORE]

    Mark Pendegrast and John Ziegler are two individuals who, on numerous levels, it would seem could hardly be more different from each other. One area where these two men converge extensively, however, is that of the Penn State-Sandusky-Paterno affair.

    [MORE]
    Both Ziegler as well as Pendegrast have, after extensive investigation into and examination and review of the evidence (most of which at most few members of the public have even been made aware of) reached the conclusion not only that Joe Paterno but even, in all likelihood, Jerry Sandusky as well, are both innocent of the accusations and charges that have ruined their lives and legacies.

    Pendegrast presents his case in his 2017 book, The Most Hated Man in America – Jerry Sandusky and the Rush to Judgment (Sunbury Press)

    Ziegler’s work on the case, which includes much written material, as well as both videos and an entire series of podcasts, With The Benefit of Hindsight, can be found at
    https://www.framingpaterno.com/
    From the home page:

    an incompetent, ratings-driven media told this story in a way not consistent with the facts, or even basic logic, and are now too invested in their fairytale to ever correct their colossal errors.

    While this site began as a defense of Paterno, after investigating the case for two years and interviewing Sandusky twice in prison, it became obvious that Sandusky himself has also been done a horrendous injustice. While this revelation will be shocking to people who have not followed the case closely, if you look at the evidence here with an open mind, there is little doubt that you will come to the same conclusion.

    In a May 26th post entitled, Jerry Sandusky and restoring the presumption of innocence, blogger James Leroy Wilson writes that Ziegler’s With The Benefit of Hindsight podcast, “includes recordings of interviews he made during his investigation as well as live interviews with guests.” and that it

    provides compelling evidence that:

    1. The eyewitness to the “shower incident” changed his story numerous times, but based on his initial story, Paterno and Penn State administrators had no cause to believe any crime took place, and are NOT GUILTY of a coverup.

    2. Sandusky himself was innocent of all charges.

    Wilson goes on, in the same piece, to write,

    When state prosecutors want to bring someone down, their resources seem infinite while the defense is only as good as the defendant can afford. When a case becomes a media firestorm, but the public mainly hears the State’s version of things, it’s hard to get an unbiased jury.

    Yes, jury members have an intellectual understanding that the accused is “innocent until proven guilty.” And they may be conscientious in holding to that presumption. But when the prosecutors tell the press that the accused is a monster, and jury members had heard very little else about the accused, they’ll be inclined to accept a lower standard of “proof.”

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Danny Clover

    Penn State-Sandusky-Paterno is right up there with the Las Vegas shooter as things whose explanations don't make sense to me. Sandusky is boning kids in the shower and no one notices? C'mon, man!

  79. @Bardon Kaldian
    @ic1000

    I've been thinking along these lines, too.

    Your argument basically is: if your fortunes suddenly skyrocket, and you're not a financial wizard - unlike, say, Soros- then there is something behind the scenes & you're a front.

    Possibly.

    But, when one thinks of it- who? I know that Mossad & CIA are the best candidates, but I don't see how they could profit from these procuring schemes. All the people involved were, all of them, too Israel-friendly & there was no need to blackmail them.

    To me, it all seems to boil down to two things:

    a) Epstein was a genius as a crook, not a "real" businessman. He was a brilliant con-man.

    b) this all had been happening in a rather heavily Jewish milieu, so he could be getting some encouragement or trust from his co-ethnics, at least in the beginning.

    What sticks out is his obsession with science (Minsky, Wilczek, ..), cryogenic fantasies etc. This is something too personal I don't believe any secret service would be into it, or would have tolerated such "interests" of their puppet. His sci-fi absurd fixation is, in my view, a strong indicator that he was, basically, a self-made con-man.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @YetAnotherAnon

    “this is something too personal I don’t believe any secret service would be into it, or would have tolerated such “interests” of their puppet”

    Surely a secret service, just like anybody else, has to take people as they find them? Epstein’s scientific interests (Pinker and Hawking were among his guests) certainly added to his “social acceptability index”.

    A good agent has to have entertainment value, and Epstein certainly had that.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @YetAnotherAnon

    It wasn't just an entertainment; it was, say, his "passion", his big dream fantasy. Central to his life.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

  80. @Enemy of Earth
    Someone is going to dead Maxwell before something too embarrassing comes out. Smollett will probably get a slap on his limp wrist.Holmes may avoid heavy penalties because she is a female but you never can tell.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Hypnotoad666

    The Ghislane Mawell case is obviously part of a cover up. All through the 2000s politicians were flying the Lolita Express down to Pedo Island for sex. So to break the case you’d obviously get the manifests, find all the girls and passengers, get the financial records of the payments, get some people to roll on the others, and unwind the whole Epstein sex-for-influence operation. That’s what you’d do if you put were interested, anyway.

    Instead, they are charging Maxwell solely with some ticky tack bullshit for trying to help Epstein get laid in the 90s. I hear they haven’t offered any deal and have no interest in what Maxwell has to say about anyone else.

    In other words, after having Epstein whacked in prison, the feds are skipping right over anything that could implicate anyone besides the deceased Epstein himself.

    This has apparently gone without comment in our esteemed press. But Maxwell is obviously a patsy and her whole trial is a deliberate distraction to avoid going after the powerful people who flew on the Lolita Express, or figuring out who was backing this whole operation, and why.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2021-11-30/explainer-what-are-the-charges-in-the-ghislaine-maxwell-sex-abuse-trial

    • Thanks: JimDandy
    • Replies: @Alden
    @Hypnotoad666

    About the customers of the underage prostitutes.

    In the uniform Penal Code and Penal codes of every state in America. The pimp is the worst crime with the strongest penalties. Although they are almost never charged. Next the prostitute who physically gets money or something for sex. The customer commits a much lesser crime, maybe even a misdemeanor. State codes differ.

    Now, it doesn’t seem the customers of the underage prostitutes actually paid the prostitutes themselves. They just went to parties where young girls were available. That’s not a crime. Unless the girls were under the statutory age of consent in whatever American state or country.

    Virginia Guiffre knew she was a prostitute. Maxwell knew she was a brothel keeper and pimp. Andrew wasn’t a customer of a prostitute just a guest in Maxwell’s brothel who sampled the treats on offer. Might be some obscure law about frequenting a brothel still on the books.

  81. Mr. Sailer,

    I have made at least three attempts now to post a rather lengthy comment using the same pseudonymic handle and fictitious email that I am using for this submission. Each time that I have submitted my comment, the page would merely refresh, leaving no trace of my comment.

    Perhaps you could be so kind as to check any spam filters that you have access to?

    I would appreciate that.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Danny Clover

    If your long comment had a URL in it, it could be the apostrophe bug.

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/bugs-suggestions/#comment-4520946

    , @J.Ross
    @Danny Clover

    To add to what AM said, more tag, archive dot today.

  82. Ghislaine Maxwell, Jussie Smollett, Elizabeth Holmes

    Quite the roster for an old game of “F*ck, Marry, Kill.”

    • LOL: Kylie
  83. Anonymous[297] • Disclaimer says:
    @SafeNow
    If we are allowed to consider “the dog that didn’t bark” scenarios, then the trials of the century were the non-existent trials of the looters, arsonists, and shoplifters. When the justice-system dog recognizes an evil-doer as friendly to it, it will not bark at him with a trial. No actual trial is as extraordinary.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Danny Clover, @Anonymous

    When the justice-system dog recognizes an evil-doer as friendly to it, it will not bark at him with a trial. No actual trial is as extraordinary.

    That could well be. You certainly make a compelling point.

    Is it, though, any less egregious when the converse happens? When a trial is nothing more than a sham; a travesty of justice? When a frenzy of moral panic, hysteria, and in many cases, patently ignoble and even transparently malicious motives, drive libel that destroys lives and reputations?

    Few here, I have little doubt, could not readily name at least one and likely any number of cases that considers to be a clear, incontrovertible example of said phenomenon. How many, however, would include in their list of such examples the “2011 Penn State scandal that led to the disgrace of football coach Joe Paterno and the conviction of his former defensive coordinator, Jerry Sandusky, for child sexual abuse”*?
    (*Quote is from the James Leroy Wilson post on Substack that I link and quote further from below.)

    How many would even so much as consider the possibility that the accusations that were so successfully (and lucratively) pursued against even Paterno, let alone Sandusky, may have, in fact, been wholly or even merely largely unsubstantiated, or even entirely false?

    [MORE]

    If Jerry Sandusky, before he dies, were to be granted a new trial…Could that not be called The Trial of the Century?

    Mark Pendegrast and John Ziegler have each presented compelling cases that at the very least, Jerry Sandusky is entitled to a new trial.

    Pendegrast presents his case in his 2017 book, The Most Hated Man in America – Jerry Sandusky and the Rush to Judgment (Sunbury Press)

    Ziegler’s work on the case, which includes much written material, as well as both videos and an entire series of podcasts, With The Benefit of Hindsight, can be found at
    framingpaterno dot com *
    From the home page:

    an incompetent, ratings-driven media told this story in a way not consistent with the facts, or even basic logic, and are now too invested in their fairytale to ever correct their colossal errors.

    While this site began as a defense of Paterno, after investigating the case for two years and interviewing Sandusky twice in prison, it became obvious that Sandusky himself has also been done a horrendous injustice. While this revelation will be shocking to people who have not followed the case closely, if you look at the evidence here with an open mind, there is little doubt that you will come to the same conclusion.

    In a May 26th post, Jerry Sandusky and restoring the presumption of innocence, blogger James Leroy Wilson writes that Ziegler’s With The Benefit of Hindsight podcast, “includes recordings of interviews he made during his investigation as well as live interviews with guests.” and that it

    provides compelling evidence that:

    1. The eyewitness to the “shower incident” changed his story numerous times, but based on his initial story, Paterno and Penn State administrators had no cause to believe any crime took place, and are NOT GUILTY of a coverup.

    2. Sandusky himself was innocent of all charges.

    Wilson goes on, in the same piece, to write,

    When state prosecutors want to bring someone down, their resources seem infinite while the defense is only as good as the defendant can afford. When a case becomes a media firestorm, but the public mainly hears the State’s version of things, it’s hard to get an unbiased jury.

    Yes, jury members have an intellectual understanding that the accused is “innocent until proven guilty.” And they may be conscientious in holding to that presumption. But when the prosecutors tell the press that the accused is a monster, and jury members had heard very little else about the accused, they’ll be inclined to accept a lower standard of “proof.”

    • Replies: @Ben tillman
    @Anonymous

    I’m open-minded on the subject, sure. Everything is hearsay to me. I did not witness any of it.

  84. @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Nah, she was just scared of needles. The same impulse that drives anti-vaxxers and why my dog doesn't like going to the vet.

    We tend to overthink things - so much of life comes down to basic impulses. Epstein liked to get off. Holmes - scare of needles. Jussie liked being famous.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Jack Armstrong, @Mike Tre, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

    “she was just scared of needles. The same impulse that drives anti-vaxxers”

    For an intelligent and well read man, you don’t half talk some nonsense sometimes. I’m not even sure it’s conscious – it just leaks out occasionally.

    On that topic, if any of you know someone who takes rituximab, e.g. for rheumatoid arthritis (isn’t that what saved our host back in the day?), it may be (consult a physician) that they should continue to shield even after being vaxxed, as the immunosuppressant effect means they don’t develop antibodies (and the vaccine is presumably useless, though the Guardian leaves that implication alone).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/dec/07/michele-brown-was-vaccinated-but-had-a-suppressed-immune-system-would-better-health-advice-have-saved-her

    https://creakyjoints.org/living-with-arthritis/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-rituximab/

  85. @jamie b.

    Holmes may avoid heavy penalties because she is a female...
     
    Not to mention mother of a well-timed baby.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Daniel H, @AKAHorace, @Emil Nikola Richard, @MGB, @Alden

    that holmes’ thing is a curiosity. so many henry the K and military types, can’t decide if they were drunk on the hope of getting an easy piece of the pie, or if some of the investments weren’t being syphoned off by those select few.

  86. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Steve Sailer

    Back in Florida, who told people to "leave him alone because he is with intelligence? Why?

    The sheer amounts of money that fell on the guy are hard to explain, plus wasn't he basically gifted his Manhattan home?

    When there are so many pieces of information in a mystery as to make it all contradictory and impossible to understand, I call that "squid ink." It is a tactic designed to make the truth impossible to discern from the noise.

    We probably will never know the truth -- and since we now live in an age when "truth" is defined as whatever the "Whos" want it to be, does it really matter anymore?

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Pericles

    Back in Florida, who told people to “leave him alone because he is with intelligence? Why?

    The sheer amounts of money that fell on the guy are hard to explain, plus wasn’t he basically gifted his Manhattan home?

    It’s probably pretty easy to fake being “with intelligence” to local prosecutors or even a U.S. Attorney if you have powerful friends, or at least people indebted to you because you have tapes of them committing felonies. I’d dare say that it might be the preferred explanation, because it is a cover story that 1) explains the secrecy about your origins and wealth; and, 2) explains why you get away with crimes, and should continue to get away with crimes.

    That said, I wouldn’t rule out that he may have actually been “with intelligence.” It’s just that for the purposes of some of this stuff it starts not to matter so much whether it was true or just perception.

    When there are so many pieces of information in a mystery as to make it all contradictory and impossible to understand, I call that “squid ink.” It is a tactic designed to make the truth impossible to discern from the noise.

    I think that in a case like this, “squid ink” should refer to the fodder for false conspiracy theories that the powers that be have and will continue to release. “Conspiracy theories” serve the powerful in cases like this because they direct public attention towards ridiculous stories and away from the true nexus of power to Epstein and Maxwell. Eventually low information news consumers will have a choice between believing that Epstein and Maxwell were intergalactic lizard people in human skin suits or just two insane sex maniacs with money, and they will choose the latter which will serve obscure the truth.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Didn’t President Clinton as well as scientists and other VIPs write letters to the Miami prosecutors demanding a lenient sentence after Epstein pled to a few charges of soliciting for prostitution of minors AKA pimping? It was on this site I think.

    Pimping of an underage 16 year old prostitute and statutory sex with her was what Darrell Brooks was convicted of in Las Vegas. And got him on the sex offender list. He’s not a pedophile just a pimp.

  87. @Chrisnonymous
    Re possibly non-fictional trials....

    It appears the Chinese have found General Zod on the Moon.

    So, now the only question is which reporter is Superman?

    It would explain how Chris Cuomo could get to Long Island so easily and easily lift those big weights, but Superman wouldn't need to isolate for Corona and wouldn't be such a mendacious idiot.

    Matt Taibbi has a good jaw line, but he isn't dorky enough. Superman's alter ego would never write for Rolling Stone and have an electric guitar in the background of his webcam.

    That leaves... Glenn Greenwald? He's the right tribe, a dorky enough to be an alter ego, and most likely to be attracted to wearing a skin-tight unitard.

    But if Glenn Greenwald is Superman, that means--

    Lois Lane is a beard!!

    Replies: @I, Libertine, @Pericles, @Rob

    That Chris Cuomo video, showing a man, by then in his late forties, lifting fake movie-prop weights, including standing presses of what was supposed to look like more than 225 lbs. for multiple reps with relative ease. . . I mean, anyone who’s ever taken up resistance training for more than a week knew that was as phony as a fifteen-cent piece. Smollet’s story was more credible.

  88. @JimDandy
    My take is that the Maxwell trial is moving along with the appearance of transparency. I haven't heard anything in the MSM about the fact that Maxwell and Epstein were running a honeypot operation for the Mossad and perhaps other intelligence outfits. High ranking people in the US government protected Epstein and his work. That's kind of a big deal.

    I wonder about Smollett. He was pals with Michelle O. and Kim Foxx. I wonder if the Chicago cops were supposed to be allowed to prove it was a hoax. They did excellent police work. I wonder if Jussie had some assurances ahead of time that he would be protected.

    I don't care about the blonde with the weird fake voice.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @TWS

    Well, well, well…

    Testifying at his own trial on Monday, the former Empire star Jussie Smollett reportedly said under oath that he received a text message from Don Lemon informing him that Chicago police did not believe his account of what happened the night he claimed to have been the victim of a hate crime by two white Trump supporters.

  89. It would be one of the most wonderful things in the history of the universe if Holmes were the girl in this magnificent picture:
    https://old.reddit.com/r/assholegonewild/comments/rb29tm/would_you_lick_my_virgin_asshole/

    Oh, and my answer to the question posed in the URL is an emphatic “yes!” So would your answer.

  90. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    By some accounts, the average American commits three felonies every day:
     
    Was it a mistake to admit here yesterday that I'd found a laminated pot leaf in a kid's book in a Little Free Library and kept it?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Paperback Writer

    That was one of your felonies from yesterday. Now tell us the other two.

  91. @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Nah, she was just scared of needles. The same impulse that drives anti-vaxxers and why my dog doesn't like going to the vet.

    We tend to overthink things - so much of life comes down to basic impulses. Epstein liked to get off. Holmes - scare of needles. Jussie liked being famous.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Jack Armstrong, @Mike Tre, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

    Derek Chauvin?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Jack Armstrong

    He was just resting his knee.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

  92. @ic1000
    @Bardon Kaldian

    > Basically, a prostitution ring that would be legal in other countries with lower age level of consent.

    Yeah, that was my starting point. Except young Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider, the thing that happened early on that accounted for what came afterwards.

    In his late twenties, Epstein was an intelligent, handsome, extroverted math teacher at a tony Manhattan prep school. Some time later, he was an up-and-coming Master of the Universe, living the Jet Set life thanks to hundreds of millions in Assets Under Management.

    I have had dealings with a fair number of Portfolio Managers and other institutional money types. To my knowledge, all achieved success one step at a time, through hard work (climbing through the ranks), study (MBA, CFA, PhD), and a series of smart investment decisions.

    In real life, wealthy individuals and institutions don't say, "'kay, sure, go ahead and take charge of millions of my dollars. I trust you, manage them well and lemme know how it works out." Wannabe PMs have to work really hard to get those first checks written.

    So what's Epstein's origin story? "Charming high-class procurer with access to lots of pretty young things" wouldn't seem to explain very much.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Achmed E. Newman

    Thank you for starting this most interesting part of the thread. I often tend toward these people in power just getting there by good (or bad) luck. I am curious about the timeline between Mr. Epstein just being this “intelligent, handsome, extroverted math teacher at a tony Manhattan prep school” and his having a lot of control over the levers of power in the world.

    It’s not like a scheme by the Mossad would be very hard to think of, nor would it be hard to implement. Guys like sex. It’s job #1. Only certain people are in a position to be subject to these temptations, and the big politicians and other elites are in that position, fortunately (or not) for them. It could have been overt, and they gave him the scoop of how his life could be as the man in charge of Fantasy Island, with some serious threat if he backed out. Maybe they just gave him money and guidance to get started bootstrapping his resort operation without the big picture.

    Did Mr. Epstein know that the goal was blackmail of dozens or hundreds of important men for the purpose of control of world politics? Maybe he was kept in the dark on this, with some of the (unknown to him) Mossad henchmen in certain positions because “hey, they need jobs, and we helped you get this nice pricey resort operation going”, till the end. Would he care? Maybe he started to, so that’s why he ended up “killing himself” in prison.

    How easy a scheme is this one! It beats accumulating enough money to buy big chunks of industry. It beats setting up a James Bond lab and hoping some Theranos-like-cool stuff, say a super-weapon, will come out of it. It beat assassinating all kinds of people, taking a chance on discovery, and then having to repeat a lot of it when some clueless other guys who are not down with the program end up in those positions.

    I have no evidence myself, of course, but this theory, IC, sounds perfectly plausible. This discussion is making me interested in those old Johnny Walker tweets that kept shaking the web page around after all. The only thing is, as a HypnoToad wrote above, it sounds like all the real interesting stuff is being kept secret. But, of course.

  93. @Paul Rise
    I thought many of the BLM/Antifa looters and rioters had been identified and many even arrested - but almost none of them saw any charges brought against them.

    Replies: @Muggles

    I thought many of the BLM/Antifa looters and rioters had been identified and many even arrested – but almost none of them saw any charges brought against them.

    The FBI has told us that there is no “antifa” and never was.

    Those riots and burning buildings, “autonomous zones” etc. are all figments of your faulty imagination and/or memory.

    So BLM/Antifa is fictional. Unlike the highly organized and structured Jan. 6 Insurrection, of which the organizational tables and diagrams are still being prepared in the FBI Evidence Labs. Those thousands of hours of secret video take a lot of time to uh, process.

    Results pending trials. Meanwhile, the Usual Suspects are in prison denied bail.

    So, to summarize, “leftists/socialists/communists/anarchists” have no organizations, members, crimes or trials. “Rightists” on the other hand (a/k/a Trumpers, white supremacists, conservatives) have crimes but no trials, organizations with members awaiting prison sentences for trials to be conducted by the Democrat House Select Committee to Investigate and Imprison Members of the Jan. 6 Insurrection and Civil War Hatefest.

    Details to be announced.

  94. @Jonathan Mason
    @Anonymous

    I have worked in a prison and I know how things work.

    If he was suspected of having cash on him, he would be removed from a cell, sent to the shower, his clothing and cell searched while he was in the shower, and so on.

    Why would the prison staff jeopardize their well-paid federal jobs with loads of overtime, lavish benefits, and pensions to steal cash from inmates? Or allow other inmates to kill inmates?

    Too much risk, besides which you don't understand how lazy correctional officers are. You think they want to run the risk of some sexual pervert biting them and giving them AIDS (as they would see it)?

    People who believe Epstein was murdered in prison are people whose experience of life is mostly confined to watching TV.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @JimDandy, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous

    It’s great to read something from you when you write about something that you actually know about from experience, Jonathan.

    I agree that he was not likely murdered over some money he was assumed to have. However, have you worked in a prison with prisoners who hold information that can rat out the elites of the world?

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Achmed E. Newman


    It’s great to read something from you when you write about something that you actually know about from experience, Jonathan.

    I agree that he was not likely murdered over some money he was assumed to have. However, have you worked in a prison with prisoners who hold information that can rat out the elites of the world?

     

    Nope, but there are lots of prisoners whom many people would like to kill, but how often do people break into prisons in the middle of the night and kill them?

    I know enough about security systems in prisons to know that all the hallways have cameras, and that there are heavy-duty sliding gates all over the place that one has to negotiate via the master control to move from one part of the building to another, plus heavy duty sally ports at the entrances and exits, with cameras all over the place.

    OK the camera that was focused on Epstein's hallway was not working on the night in question, but the killers would have had to pass other cameras and other centrally controlled doors to get to close him. And while law enforcement in the US may be incredibly corrupt, prisons are full of people who have nothing better to do than gossip, so a massive conspiracy to kill an inmate would never be kept secret.

    The idea that correctional officers used their key to open the doors of other inmates and then opened the door of Epstein's cell, or that they lent their keys to inmates to enter Epstein's cell and kill Epstein while they looked the other way does not seem at all credible to me. It seems like something out of a James Bond movie.

    Occam's Razor says Epstein hanged himself.

    Yes, prisons do need to protect suicidal inmates, but because inmates have civil rights suicidal precautions such as no clothes, suicide smocks, no sheets, , no bunk, just a concrete bench, continuous line of sight observation, finger foods only, no plastic silver ware and so on can only be ordered by a prison psychiatrist not by COs, except in an emergency situation until the inmate is assessed by a nurse who would then probably talk to the psychiatrist on the phone if he was not in the building.

    If this was not the case, then probably all inmates would be kept naked for their own safety.

    Having inmates on suicide precautions is not very popular either with medical departments or with security, because it involves a shitload of paperwork and hundreds of dollars of overtime expenses for each 24 hours. Plus a lot of the time when inmates say they are suicidal, there is some kind of secondary motive, like wanting a change of cell mate, or a move to another prison.

    Epstein had already been on suicide precautions, but had requested to be taken off and I would imagine he probably gave the psychiatrist his word that he would not hurt himself, and was given a cell mate, but there was some screw up, which is pretty common in prisons and he had no cell mate on the night in question.

    Prisons have people called "classification officers" who are a bit more educated than the grunt level COs and when a cellmate is assigned, they have to be deemed suitable by classification.

    Epstein's last cell mate was a chap called Efrain “Stone” Reyes who was a cooperating witness in a narcotics case, so he probably also had hits out on him in the criminal underworld. He and Epstein got on OK and apparently Epstein bought contraband drugs for him (that's what friends are for.)

    Less than 24 hours before Epstein died, Reyes was transferred to a prison run by GEO corporation, formerly Wackenhut (yes I once worked for them too) leaving Epstein alone in his cell.

    Epstein was found hanged in his cell at 6:30 a.m. when breakfast was distributed on August 10th, which was a Saturday morning. Probably classification had goofed off early on Friday and there was no one to assign a new cell mate to Epstein at the weekend.

    Classification requires that cell mates be assigned for compatibility, so that they don't kill each other. For example, they cannot be members of opposing gangs, and age, race, size, weight, history of violence, type of offence, and other variables are taken into account, so it cannot just be done by anyone.

    Can you hang yourself from a bunk? Sure, you can. I have personally known people who have hanged themselves from doorknobs, from shower faucet handles, and from clothing closed handles.

    I also once knew a woman who successfully hanged herself even when she had an employee right there with her as an escort. She had a bandage round her arm where she had previously superficially cut herself, and she unwrapped it and wrapped it round the shower head, then a couple of times around her neck, and jumped, and she was dead before the employee could support her weight or remove the bandage. Take my word for it. Please do not try this at home to see if it works.

    PS. I only post stuff here is it is something I know about, or something I am interested in. Considering that most people here post under pseudonyms and fail to state their credentials to comment on particular topics, I do not think I am exceptional. I just happen to have a wide range of interests and experiences.

    Replies: @James N. Kennett

  95. @jb
    OT but cute:

    https://twitter.com/CloarecJulien/status/1467493766881759237

    Replies: @Muggles

    So I guess the White people sit mostly on the far right side?

  96. @Jonathan Mason
    @Anonymous

    I have worked in a prison and I know how things work.

    If he was suspected of having cash on him, he would be removed from a cell, sent to the shower, his clothing and cell searched while he was in the shower, and so on.

    Why would the prison staff jeopardize their well-paid federal jobs with loads of overtime, lavish benefits, and pensions to steal cash from inmates? Or allow other inmates to kill inmates?

    Too much risk, besides which you don't understand how lazy correctional officers are. You think they want to run the risk of some sexual pervert biting them and giving them AIDS (as they would see it)?

    People who believe Epstein was murdered in prison are people whose experience of life is mostly confined to watching TV.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @JimDandy, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous

    Ok, so Jeffrey Dahmer killed himself. So did Whitey Bulger, and many others who I thought were murdered. Thanks for clearing that up.

  97. @Paperback Writer
    @Reg Cæsar

    Re: Spacey, maybe he had "bi-curious" fantasies. Chicks were a sick turn on to him. Or maybe they provided boys. Or he brought his own beer.

    What I don't get about this is how bleeping obvious it all was. They were practically asking to be exposed and blackmailed. If you are a rich old billionaire with a taste for young flesh, you can discreetly buy as much of your preferred fare as you want. Why get involved in all of this? For the fellowship?

    Replies: @Boomthorkell, @Achmed E. Newman, @thenon

    I’m not sure if you are talking only about actors or other non-politicians here, P.W.

    For a politician, why NOT get involved in this? You get that young p**** with no press cameras around. Yes, the other cameras, about that… Why do you care? You have no principles. You’re a big-time politician – there’s no way you got this far with any scruples left, and then, they are blackmailing you for a reason. You will affect some policy that they want, so they NEED YOU. You could be set for life! After that …?

    The only con I see is that once they’ve blackmailed you, you don’t have much of a chance for any bribe money out of them.

  98. @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    Nothing remains of her ill gotten gains (she was a billionaire on paper - it was all in Theranos stock and the stock is worthless now). However, she seems to have married well and her new husband must be paying for her very expensive defense.

    Boies was not only on the board but his firm (for very large fees) served as Holmes's legal bulldog, going after people who snitched to the government and the press for leaking "trade secrets". Fighting a high powered law firm is not cheap. Tyler Schultz's parents had to mortgage their home to defend him. I only hope that George took care of this in his will.

    As you point out, Theranos had very little technology that actually worked so that their main trade secret was that they didn't have any trade secrets - they were conducting most of their lab work on conventional machines and not on Theranos "Edisons" (what is it with high tech companies stealing the name of dead white male inventors?). The closest thing to a "trade secret" was that they were taking their tiny samples and diluting them 10x with distilled water in order to have a big enough sample to run thru a normal lab test and then they would extrapolate the results back by 10x - if the lab machine said that the PSA was .5, they would report it as 5. You can imagine that this did not work very well.

    Replies: @Muggles

    I have both read and been told by several medical professionals, including phlebotomists (techs who draw blood) that the blood drawn from the skin-only isn’t valid for nearly all blood related tests.

    Which is why they draw from veins.

    It has something to do with the blood composition and mix in the dermis as opposed to the overall circulatory systems. Insufficient quantity and thinness of the stuff.

    I have yet to read this fact or idea mentioned in the context of the Theranos hoax. I’m not sure if or how they addressed this problem.

    One would assume that this would be a major problem for Holmes & Company. Or did they just use Liz’s batted eyelashes to assume this away.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Muggles

    Exactly. That is the whole reason why nobody in the medical community believed in Theranos.

    There was no real breakthrough in blood testing methodology. You cannot just dilute blood with water and test it. It was just a scam from the beginning.

    Replies: @acementhead

  99. @Chrisnonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    I think it's obvious from Trump's pre-2015 comments on Epstein (paraphrase: "he likes 'em young!") that he either heard, figured out, or intuited that Epstein was what he was. When this issue came up during the 2016 election, we pointed out that everything about Trump, like the women he chooses to consort with, suggests that he doesn't have hebophilic tendencies but just likes attractive adult women. Plus, because of his persona and position, he didn't need to hide his womanizing like a Clinton or Prince Andrew. These considerations and the fact that Epstein was banned from the Mar a Lago resort should be enough to put Trump in a good light.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Buzz Mohawk

    I agree. Good on you also for using a correct term, “hebophilic” to describe Epstein’s interest in young adolescent girls. I would add “ephebophilic,” as his tastes also included later adolescents. He is/was not a pedophile by definition.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Except for the 3 12 year old French triplets. I’m glad some one recognizes the difference between pedeophilia and sexual interest in underage minors.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    , @Jonathan Mason
    @Buzz Mohawk


    He is/was not a pedophile by definition.
     
    He liked them old enough to know, but too young to know better.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

  100. @Scott in PA
    Seems Jussie is counting on one or two jurors to hang the jury. Not an unrealistic strategy given current conditions.

    Replies: @TWS, @Hibernian, @David In TN

    I suspect a hung jury on jussie. Maxwell will focus like a laser on Maxwell. I can’t imagine they want this to metastasize

  101. @Jonathan Mason
    @Anonymous

    I have worked in a prison and I know how things work.

    If he was suspected of having cash on him, he would be removed from a cell, sent to the shower, his clothing and cell searched while he was in the shower, and so on.

    Why would the prison staff jeopardize their well-paid federal jobs with loads of overtime, lavish benefits, and pensions to steal cash from inmates? Or allow other inmates to kill inmates?

    Too much risk, besides which you don't understand how lazy correctional officers are. You think they want to run the risk of some sexual pervert biting them and giving them AIDS (as they would see it)?

    People who believe Epstein was murdered in prison are people whose experience of life is mostly confined to watching TV.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @JimDandy, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous

    If Cabal wanted Epstein dead, he would have been found drowned in a hot tub or something like that. Prison was a great way to fake a suicide with some other poor slob’s body wheeled out the doors while Epstein was spirited away.

  102. @Buzz Mohawk
    @AnotherDad

    Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

    We are only two decades into this tiresome century. There will be more and worse.

    "Trial of the Century" proclamations are silly.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @kaganovitch

    Trial of the Moment?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Mike Tre

    That's more like it.

  103. @JimDandy
    My take is that the Maxwell trial is moving along with the appearance of transparency. I haven't heard anything in the MSM about the fact that Maxwell and Epstein were running a honeypot operation for the Mossad and perhaps other intelligence outfits. High ranking people in the US government protected Epstein and his work. That's kind of a big deal.

    I wonder about Smollett. He was pals with Michelle O. and Kim Foxx. I wonder if the Chicago cops were supposed to be allowed to prove it was a hoax. They did excellent police work. I wonder if Jussie had some assurances ahead of time that he would be protected.

    I don't care about the blonde with the weird fake voice.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @TWS

    I keep reading on Unz that this was all a mossad honeypot. Is that something Unz came up with, some Alex Jones level stuff? Flat earth and faked moon landing or is this serious? I know Unz has its fair share of glowies and keyboard Tourette types who have put parentheses around every damn thing. So which is this?

    • Troll: JimDandy
    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @TWS

    You mad, bro? Cuz you sound really, really stupid right now.

    , @PhysicistDave
    @TWS

    TWS asked:


    I keep reading on Unz that this was all a mossad honeypot. Is that something Unz came up with, some Alex Jones level stuff? Flat earth and faked moon landing or is this serious?
     
    Well... why don't you bother to do a bit of googling about Ghislaine's dad?

    Here, for example, is a comment from The Israeli press:

    [Maxwell père] was buried on Jerusalem’s Mount of Olives in the presence of numerous Israeli intelligence figures, and eulogized by then prime minister Yitzhak Shamir. Amid reports of his links to Britain’s MI6 intelligence, the KGB and Mossad, Shamir declared that Maxwell “has done more for Israel than can today be said.”
     
    Yeah, yeah, I know: Alex Jones control the Israeli press!

    And then try to figure out where Epstein got his money, what his and Ghislanine's motives could have been for their bizarre behavior, and, well..

    There is such a thing as the most reasonable hypothesis.
  104. Not a trial, but coudda been.

    According to the official police press release, Brian Laundre committed suicide by firearm, so people who were waiting for the murderer of Gabby Petito to get his just deserts, will have to be satisfied with that. All in all, a tragedy for both families, not to mention the victims themselves. But I can’t help but note the difference between Laundrie’s actions and those of that other woman killer, Alec Baldwin. Whereas Laundrie examined his conscience and decided that the only honorable way to satisfy the demands of Universal Justice was to offer up his life in return for having taken hers, Baldwin went on TV and in an interview that was designed to be as obfuscating as Hollywood could make it, claimed to not have “pulled the trigger”, i.e. been the active agent in the killing of the woman on the set.

    In Poly Sci class–and from real life observation as well–we all learned that one of the characteristics of a so-called Conservative is that they believe in personal responsibility. So-called Liberals, on the other hand, hold the individual blameless and attribute all outcomes to “the environment”. True to his Liberal standards, Baldwin doesn’t hold himself responsible. The gun just went off. It happened. No one made it happen.

    So, by this criteria, Laundrie is a true Conservative i.e. one who holds someone–himself–responsible for what occurred. And he was courageous enough to step up and pay the price. He offered himself up for punishment and in doing so, affirmed that there are Rules of Comportment to which humans are honor bound by a higher principle–Justice. Laundrie then, despite his having given in to his passions during the heat of the moment, is a highly principled man–another hallmark of Conservatism.

    Baldwin, on the other hand, neither affirms such a higher principle nor does he acknowledge that he is in any way bound to hold himself to account to any principle whatsoever. He is a nihilist. He believes in self preservation at any and all costs. He is a true Liberal.

    Someone else commented as to how, only in the Liberal universe, can a firearm just “go off”. As the State Trouper said in the trial covering an automobile accident in which I was a juror, “In automobile wrecks, there is no such thing as an “accident”. The Law does not recognize the word. Someone is always accountable.”

    Only a person who knows nothing about firearms can attribute any outcome to a “gun’s simply going off”. Anyone who has handled pistols and rifles knows that there is no other object in our society in which there is a clearer connection between human input and output. A pistol is positive. The connection between input and output is absolutely solid. There is no slippage, no mechanical fuzziness, no vague undefined areas or hidden causes that make what results in any way independent of what was inputted. You pull a hammer back and it clicks and locks solidly into place. You pull the trigger and the hammer strikes with authority and so on. So to argue that, “Something somehow just happened, I don’t know how…..guns can do that, you know?” is just horsefeathers; more of the same type of thinking that characterizes Liberal views on human affairs and personal responsibility.

  105. @EuroNat
    My take is, if you really want more people participating in your open threads, you actually should publish legitimate and respectful comments sooner and drop this ridiculous passive-aggressive pseudo-censorship of yours already, ie keeping comments in moderation limbo until enough new sh*tposts bury the one where the comment was waiting for approval.

    Replies: @Undisclosed, @TWS

    You think Steve gives a rats ass about what order or even who posts? He can’t be bothered to spam the Duck’s sock puppets. Humans can see weird patterns in anything

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @TWS


    He can’t be bothered to spam the Duck’s sock puppets.
     
    Why would he do that? They have tremendous entertainment value.




    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/79/ed/e3/79ede370e2681f288460d9105c8e3937.jpg
  106. @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Nah, she was just scared of needles. The same impulse that drives anti-vaxxers and why my dog doesn't like going to the vet.

    We tend to overthink things - so much of life comes down to basic impulses. Epstein liked to get off. Holmes - scare of needles. Jussie liked being famous.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Jack Armstrong, @Mike Tre, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

    “he was just scared of needles. The same impulse that drives anti-vaxxers ”

    This is a lie you made up.

  107. @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer

    They were watching for White Nationalists, who are Public Enemy #1, not for Peaceful Protestors. Remember that this is the same FBI that denied for decades that the Mafia even existed. Turning their attention to organized crime would take away from their ability to hunt down Reds. Either that or the Mafia had film and was blackmailing J. Edgar.

    Bureacracies do not exist to carry out the Law in some impartial manner - that's impossible. There are a million laws on the books. By some accounts, the average American commits three felonies every day:

    https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229

    The bureacracy has to be given its marching orders by the people at the top. In Year X, we are conducting a War on Drugs. In Year Y, we are conducting a War on Terrorism. In 2020, we were conducting a War on White People. Didn't you notice? They really didn't try to hide it very hard.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Paperback Writer, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Did you know that they were surveilling the mostly peaceful protests in the Summer of Floyd? When was the first you heard of this – was it my comment, or did you know before?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer

    Well I knew of the FBI drone footage from the Rittenhouse trial, though not before IIRC. So about a month ago. Frankly I was not shocked.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

  108. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    By some accounts, the average American commits three felonies every day:
     
    Was it a mistake to admit here yesterday that I'd found a laminated pot leaf in a kid's book in a Little Free Library and kept it?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Paperback Writer

    I honestly don’t think I did any felonies today. Does walking around maskless indoors count?

  109. @jamie b.

    Holmes may avoid heavy penalties because she is a female...
     
    Not to mention mother of a well-timed baby.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Daniel H, @AKAHorace, @Emil Nikola Richard, @MGB, @Alden

    Excellent observation is she still nursing the baby? The marriage was rather hurried too. Most women prison guards and prisoners are black. What a fate. Maybe she’ll get pregnant again soon. Prison medical staff is black too.

  110. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jonathan Mason

    It's great to read something from you when you write about something that you actually know about from experience, Jonathan.

    I agree that he was not likely murdered over some money he was assumed to have. However, have you worked in a prison with prisoners who hold information that can rat out the elites of the world?

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    It’s great to read something from you when you write about something that you actually know about from experience, Jonathan.

    I agree that he was not likely murdered over some money he was assumed to have. However, have you worked in a prison with prisoners who hold information that can rat out the elites of the world?

    Nope, but there are lots of prisoners whom many people would like to kill, but how often do people break into prisons in the middle of the night and kill them?

    I know enough about security systems in prisons to know that all the hallways have cameras, and that there are heavy-duty sliding gates all over the place that one has to negotiate via the master control to move from one part of the building to another, plus heavy duty sally ports at the entrances and exits, with cameras all over the place.

    OK the camera that was focused on Epstein’s hallway was not working on the night in question, but the killers would have had to pass other cameras and other centrally controlled doors to get to close him. And while law enforcement in the US may be incredibly corrupt, prisons are full of people who have nothing better to do than gossip, so a massive conspiracy to kill an inmate would never be kept secret.

    The idea that correctional officers used their key to open the doors of other inmates and then opened the door of Epstein’s cell, or that they lent their keys to inmates to enter Epstein’s cell and kill Epstein while they looked the other way does not seem at all credible to me. It seems like something out of a James Bond movie.

    Occam’s Razor says Epstein hanged himself.

    Yes, prisons do need to protect suicidal inmates, but because inmates have civil rights suicidal precautions such as no clothes, suicide smocks, no sheets, , no bunk, just a concrete bench, continuous line of sight observation, finger foods only, no plastic silver ware and so on can only be ordered by a prison psychiatrist not by COs, except in an emergency situation until the inmate is assessed by a nurse who would then probably talk to the psychiatrist on the phone if he was not in the building.

    If this was not the case, then probably all inmates would be kept naked for their own safety.

    Having inmates on suicide precautions is not very popular either with medical departments or with security, because it involves a shitload of paperwork and hundreds of dollars of overtime expenses for each 24 hours. Plus a lot of the time when inmates say they are suicidal, there is some kind of secondary motive, like wanting a change of cell mate, or a move to another prison.

    Epstein had already been on suicide precautions, but had requested to be taken off and I would imagine he probably gave the psychiatrist his word that he would not hurt himself, and was given a cell mate, but there was some screw up, which is pretty common in prisons and he had no cell mate on the night in question.

    Prisons have people called “classification officers” who are a bit more educated than the grunt level COs and when a cellmate is assigned, they have to be deemed suitable by classification.

    Epstein’s last cell mate was a chap called Efrain “Stone” Reyes who was a cooperating witness in a narcotics case, so he probably also had hits out on him in the criminal underworld. He and Epstein got on OK and apparently Epstein bought contraband drugs for him (that’s what friends are for.)

    Less than 24 hours before Epstein died, Reyes was transferred to a prison run by GEO corporation, formerly Wackenhut (yes I once worked for them too) leaving Epstein alone in his cell.

    Epstein was found hanged in his cell at 6:30 a.m. when breakfast was distributed on August 10th, which was a Saturday morning. Probably classification had goofed off early on Friday and there was no one to assign a new cell mate to Epstein at the weekend.

    Classification requires that cell mates be assigned for compatibility, so that they don’t kill each other. For example, they cannot be members of opposing gangs, and age, race, size, weight, history of violence, type of offence, and other variables are taken into account, so it cannot just be done by anyone.

    Can you hang yourself from a bunk? Sure, you can. I have personally known people who have hanged themselves from doorknobs, from shower faucet handles, and from clothing closed handles.

    I also once knew a woman who successfully hanged herself even when she had an employee right there with her as an escort. She had a bandage round her arm where she had previously superficially cut herself, and she unwrapped it and wrapped it round the shower head, then a couple of times around her neck, and jumped, and she was dead before the employee could support her weight or remove the bandage. Take my word for it. Please do not try this at home to see if it works.

    PS. I only post stuff here is it is something I know about, or something I am interested in. Considering that most people here post under pseudonyms and fail to state their credentials to comment on particular topics, I do not think I am exceptional. I just happen to have a wide range of interests and experiences.

    • Replies: @James N. Kennett
    @Jonathan Mason

    I hope that US prisons are better at suicide prevention than their British counterparts. If a British prisoner is considered a suicide risk, he is put on "suicide watch": this means solitary confinement, and a visual check through the grille in the cell door every 15 minutes. This is practically an invitation to commit suicide, as long as the prisoner can do so in 14½ minutes. Under this regime, the notorious serial killers Fred West and Harold Shipman each managed to hang himself.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

  111. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Chrisnonymous

    I agree. Good on you also for using a correct term, "hebophilic" to describe Epstein's interest in young adolescent girls. I would add "ephebophilic," as his tastes also included later adolescents. He is/was not a pedophile by definition.

    Replies: @Alden, @Jonathan Mason

    Except for the 3 12 year old French triplets. I’m glad some one recognizes the difference between pedeophilia and sexual interest in underage minors.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Alden

    As creepy as it sounds, even those 12-year-old triplets might have been the subjects of Epstein's (and his guest's) hebephilia and not pedophilia, depending on the girls' development at the time.

    "Hebephilia is the strong, persistent sexual interest by adults in pubescent children who are in early adolescence, typically ages 11–14 and showing Tanner stages 2 to 3 of physical development," according to Wikipedia (the font of all knowledge) and footnoted to: Stephens S, Seto MC (2015). Phenix A, Hoberman H (eds.). Sexual Offending: Predisposing Antecedents, Assessments and Management. Springer. pp. 29–41.

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden

  112. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Chrisnonymous

    I agree. Good on you also for using a correct term, "hebophilic" to describe Epstein's interest in young adolescent girls. I would add "ephebophilic," as his tastes also included later adolescents. He is/was not a pedophile by definition.

    Replies: @Alden, @Jonathan Mason

    He is/was not a pedophile by definition.

    He liked them old enough to know, but too young to know better.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Jonathan Mason

    Correct, and in many times and places, those girls would have been legal. Even in several US states.

    This whole Maxwell/Epstein thing is much ado about not much, perhaps to obscure a lot.

    There are underage prostitutes all over America. I knew one from Sacramento who started there when she was fifteen. She had stories to tell of older men who hired her.

    When I met her, she was a high school senior dating the quarterback. She confided in me that he told her she was "the best he'd ever had." She laughed, because he didn't know her past. This was in 1978, and I was her age. She had moved away to Colorado to stay with another family (friends of hers and ours) and to get away from her past. We made friends.

    Replies: @Pericles

  113. @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer

    They were watching for White Nationalists, who are Public Enemy #1, not for Peaceful Protestors. Remember that this is the same FBI that denied for decades that the Mafia even existed. Turning their attention to organized crime would take away from their ability to hunt down Reds. Either that or the Mafia had film and was blackmailing J. Edgar.

    Bureacracies do not exist to carry out the Law in some impartial manner - that's impossible. There are a million laws on the books. By some accounts, the average American commits three felonies every day:

    https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229

    The bureacracy has to be given its marching orders by the people at the top. In Year X, we are conducting a War on Drugs. In Year Y, we are conducting a War on Terrorism. In 2020, we were conducting a War on White People. Didn't you notice? They really didn't try to hide it very hard.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Paperback Writer, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Remember that this is the same FBI that denied for decades that the Mafia even existed.

    Are you sure you have this right? My recollection is that the Feds were trying to prove the existence of the Mafia/Mob/La Cosa Nostra as an organization for decades but none of the member co-conspirators would talk and explicitly confirm its existence due to the strong oath of omerta. It wasn’t until Valachi and then subsequent informant-witnesses that the existence of a definite criminal organization could be proven.

    Now, of course, any two people to the right of Mitt Romney are a “white supremacist organization” engaged in some sort of incipient “right wing domestic terror” once they talk politics together. And the fully politicized FBI denies the existence of Antifa in conformity with Democratic party political demands despite the clear outlines of an organization (they even have uniforms of a sort, and webs of funding and logistical support, which is not necessarily to say that they commit defined ‘predicate acts’ under RICO).

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1957-meeting-forced-fbi-recognize-mafiaand-changed-justice-system-forever-180967204/

    , @Sam Malone
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    I think he's mostly right on that point. I'm sure there were plenty of individual FBI agents in the 1920s-50s who would would have liked to nail Mafia figures, and efforts were no doubt made from time to time that usually encountered roadblocks like omerta - as well as the ridiculously trivial jail sentences that were often given out by state and local courts before the federal RICO legislation was introduced in the mid to late 1960s.

    (I've always thought a great story could be told about the importance of the RICO laws, for the first time arming the federal government with the legal tools, and courts with the severe and predictable penalties, that together made it possible to actually harm the organized criminal groups it chose to target. It took 20 years of application, but by the late 80s the Italian Mafia was nothing at all like it had been. See Tony Soprano's speech to his shrink in one of the first episodes of 'The Sopranos' - he explains how a guy in the old days would do some time and keep quiet when the 'time' was 2 or 3 years, or maybe 5-10 at most. But, he says, when the sentences became 20-30 years, or life, people would start telling anything they knew to buy a lighter sentence - and then is was all over.)

    But my understanding has always been that under Hoover's direction the FBI chose not to seriously pursue organized crime groups like the Mafia, much less acknowledge their reality, until, as you say, they were forced to by developments in the late 50s/early 60s. The reason usually given is that Hoover wished instead to focus the Bureau's efforts and propaganda on anti-radical operations.

    I've always assumed that the main reason was actually a desire to avoid having his cherished Bureau forced to get down in the mud and wrestle with scum who had plenty of resources and few compunctions, incurring plenty of failure and grisly setbacks in the public's view all in service to the hopeless task of eliminating vice. Much easier to have a I-leave-you-alone-you-leave-me-alone policy with them.

    It was always political investigations that brought Mafia activity to light in the late 50s/early 60s, whether Senator Kefauver's televised committee or Attorney General Robert Kennedy's probes, but Hoover held his fire on them to the extent possible, for as long as possible. I wouldn't discount at all the rumors that the Mafia or it's affiliates had some dirt on him that influenced this decision.

    , @Paperback Writer
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)


    And the fully politicized FBI denies the existence of Antifa in conformity with Democratic party political demands despite the clear outlines of an organization (they even have uniforms of a sort, and webs of funding and logistical support, which is not necessarily to say that they commit defined ‘predicate acts’ under RICO).
     
    Things aren't always what they seem. What is the FBI supposed to do, put out a press release with a headline that says, "We Admit It: Antifa Is A Menace"?

    Maybe I'm nuts, but I think the FBI realizes that Antifa is a threat, BLM is a threat, there is a non-trivial segment of American society that sympathizes with the radical left.

    Also, unpopular opinion: I don't think the Patriot Front marchers were Feds. They do exist, and they put on a show in D.C.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    , @Paperback Writer
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    I don't think it is right.

    https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/organized-crime/history-of-la-cosa-nostra

    But other things came up such as the very real threat of Communist infiltration in the US from the 30s to the 50s, as Whittaker Chambers and the Venona Papers proved. You can only fight so many threats.

    Also, I'm no expert on the Mafia but it might be possible that between Prohibition and the rise of heroin, there was WW2, they weren't that dangerous, thus didn't merit much attention. But the FBI knew of La Cosa Nostra during Prohibition.

  114. @Hypnotoad666
    @Enemy of Earth

    The Ghislane Mawell case is obviously part of a cover up. All through the 2000s politicians were flying the Lolita Express down to Pedo Island for sex. So to break the case you'd obviously get the manifests, find all the girls and passengers, get the financial records of the payments, get some people to roll on the others, and unwind the whole Epstein sex-for-influence operation. That's what you'd do if you put were interested, anyway.


    Instead, they are charging Maxwell solely with some ticky tack bullshit for trying to help Epstein get laid in the 90s. I hear they haven't offered any deal and have no interest in what Maxwell has to say about anyone else.

    In other words, after having Epstein whacked in prison, the feds are skipping right over anything that could implicate anyone besides the deceased Epstein himself.

    This has apparently gone without comment in our esteemed press. But Maxwell is obviously a patsy and her whole trial is a deliberate distraction to avoid going after the powerful people who flew on the Lolita Express, or figuring out who was backing this whole operation, and why.


    https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2021-11-30/explainer-what-are-the-charges-in-the-ghislaine-maxwell-sex-abuse-trial

    Replies: @Alden

    About the customers of the underage prostitutes.

    In the uniform Penal Code and Penal codes of every state in America. The pimp is the worst crime with the strongest penalties. Although they are almost never charged. Next the prostitute who physically gets money or something for sex. The customer commits a much lesser crime, maybe even a misdemeanor. State codes differ.

    Now, it doesn’t seem the customers of the underage prostitutes actually paid the prostitutes themselves. They just went to parties where young girls were available. That’s not a crime. Unless the girls were under the statutory age of consent in whatever American state or country.

    Virginia Guiffre knew she was a prostitute. Maxwell knew she was a brothel keeper and pimp. Andrew wasn’t a customer of a prostitute just a guest in Maxwell’s brothel who sampled the treats on offer. Might be some obscure law about frequenting a brothel still on the books.

  115. @Big Bill
    @JR Ewing

    Her claims were originally insane. Read her very first patent application. A pill with micropumps, arrays of tiny beads for testing blood/fluid, a dozen or more microcontainers of reagents and drugs, a computer, a battery, telecommunications circuits, etc.

    It would suck in body fluids that surrounded the gadget, do a test on them, and transmit the test results to an iPhone.

    And the whole thing was the size of a pill.

    That was her big, impossible, George Jetson idea when she was a 19 year-old dropout.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @JR Ewing

    Thank you.

    I am not all that familiar with the early technical details, I just thought the “diagnose disease with a blood test” idea made sense and then it became more and more grandiose (“a single drop of blood… at Walgreens!”) as more and more money got involved.

    But yes, what you quote from the beginning apparently is quite outlandish itself.

  116. Smollett claims the brothers tried to shake him down through his lawyers, but has no proof.

    Can the judge force his lawyers to confirm or deny this away from the jury? It seems like obvious perjury and the lawyers know it. It seems to go beyond “everyday perjury,” when the lawyers are said to be involved and could testify to who/what/when, but they then present this to the jury as fact.

    • Replies: @Ben tillman
    @Bill in Glendale

    The prosecution can put Jussie’s lawyers on the stand and question them in front of the jury like any other witness.

    And the judge will likely be very angry because it is an ethical violation for an attorney to represent a client in a case in which he is a fact witness. Of course, in this case, the lawyers probably didn’t know Jussie was going to make this claim when they agreed to represent him.

  117. @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Nah, she was just scared of needles. The same impulse that drives anti-vaxxers and why my dog doesn't like going to the vet.

    We tend to overthink things - so much of life comes down to basic impulses. Epstein liked to get off. Holmes - scare of needles. Jussie liked being famous.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Jack Armstrong, @Mike Tre, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

    Hmm. Never thought Mason and I would agree on something! Gotta love iSteve!

  118. @AnotherDad
    @cliff arroyo


    So far…. surely Rittenhouse has been the trial of the century. The state and media and tech sectors threw everything they had at him… lots of courtroom drama…. and he walked.
     
    Rittenhouse was the most dramatic.

    But the "trial of the century" so far this century has been Derek Chauvin.

    A black career criminal ODs on Chauvin waiting for the ambulance--which is late due to screwed up ("affirmative action?") dispatch prioritization--while he's doing (or looks like he's doing) the knee-on-the-neck restraint producing bad optics.

    All the great and the good rush to denounce and string up the deplorable flyover country gentile for his racist, Nazi oppression of a saintly virtuous minority (a drug dealing thug).


    Chauvin was essentially the right of white police to police blacks is on trial. In effect the right of deplorable American whites to maintain their Western Christian civilized norms is put on trial.

    And the verdict is "no"--and in fact with the laughable "murder" conviction, "damn no!"

    We white gentiles have no right to live in communities or a nation with our traditional civilized norms. We are serfs, who must serve and bow and scrap before our minoritarian masters.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Prometheus Martel, @Ben tillman

    Agree, but watch the federal civil rights trial of all 4 cops, which I expect will be a much more vigorous defense, and will include the fact that the coroner, Andrew Baker, told the FBI that Floyd died due to the stress put on on his diseased, drugged cardio system “prior to being on the ground”
    That’s verbatim what the FBI wrote Baker told them. That’s reasonable doubt, not sure why Chauvin didn’t introduce it.

  119. @Chrisnonymous
    Re possibly non-fictional trials....

    It appears the Chinese have found General Zod on the Moon.

    So, now the only question is which reporter is Superman?

    It would explain how Chris Cuomo could get to Long Island so easily and easily lift those big weights, but Superman wouldn't need to isolate for Corona and wouldn't be such a mendacious idiot.

    Matt Taibbi has a good jaw line, but he isn't dorky enough. Superman's alter ego would never write for Rolling Stone and have an electric guitar in the background of his webcam.

    That leaves... Glenn Greenwald? He's the right tribe, a dorky enough to be an alter ego, and most likely to be attracted to wearing a skin-tight unitard.

    But if Glenn Greenwald is Superman, that means--

    Lois Lane is a beard!!

    Replies: @I, Libertine, @Pericles, @Rob

    Perhaps you haven’t heard that Superman recently came out as bisexual?

    Actually, he looks more like Supertwink in that picture. But now you know.

  120. @Steve Sailer
    @Bardon Kaldian

    A smart guy I know who as a teenager interned for Alan Dershowitz and knew Epstein, has gone back and forth on Mossad conspiracy theories.

    To me, listening to him, Epstein sounds like a likable blue-collar, slightly mobbed-up Jewish hustler who reminded higher class Jews like Leslie Wexner of their roots. Epstein would be played in a movie by Adam Sandler or Andy Samberg rather than by Paul Rudd or David Schwimmer or Jesse Eisenberg.

    On the other hand, Ghislaine is the daughter of a genuine James Bond Villain, Robert Maxwell. I'm guessing she thought she could mold Epstein into her father.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @JimDandy

    She thought she could mold Epstein into another Robert Maxwell, Israel’s superspy, who died under mysterious circumstances and “was afforded a lavish funeral in Israel, attended by Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, Israeli President Chaim Herzog, at least six serving and former heads of Israeli intelligence and many dignitaries and politicians (both government and opposition), and was buried on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem.”?

    I like your theory.

  121. @Bill Jones
    The big dog that didn't bark during the BLM riots was the utter lack of follow up on, for example, the videos of a Ryder trucks unloading bricks in alleys where the sole purpose was to provide ammunition for looters. In one instance the truck was revealed to be rented by a BLM affiliated not-for-profit funded by millions from one of the Twitterati. No charges were brought.

    Replies: @Pericles

    Interesting, that’s the first I’ve heard about the source of all those mysterious pallets of convenient bricks. Any pointers to articles or such?

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Pericles

    As several people here note, you're never up to date on US news until you've read the UK's Daily Mail.

    start here

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8377069/Bricks-randomly-appear-protests-sparking-theories-planted-stoke-violence.html

    Just try a search (And I do hope you don't use google, try https://swisscows.com/) Trucks, bricks, riots.

  122. @Jonathan Mason
    @Buzz Mohawk


    He is/was not a pedophile by definition.
     
    He liked them old enough to know, but too young to know better.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    Correct, and in many times and places, those girls would have been legal. Even in several US states.

    This whole Maxwell/Epstein thing is much ado about not much, perhaps to obscure a lot.

    There are underage prostitutes all over America. I knew one from Sacramento who started there when she was fifteen. She had stories to tell of older men who hired her.

    When I met her, she was a high school senior dating the quarterback. She confided in me that he told her she was “the best he’d ever had.” She laughed, because he didn’t know her past. This was in 1978, and I was her age. She had moved away to Colorado to stay with another family (friends of hers and ours) and to get away from her past. We made friends.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Ubiquitous underage hookers is, you know, a sign of degeneracy rather than a good thing. Do I have to mention that pimping the kids out is actually bad too?

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Jack D

  123. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Steve Sailer

    Back in Florida, who told people to "leave him alone because he is with intelligence? Why?

    The sheer amounts of money that fell on the guy are hard to explain, plus wasn't he basically gifted his Manhattan home?

    When there are so many pieces of information in a mystery as to make it all contradictory and impossible to understand, I call that "squid ink." It is a tactic designed to make the truth impossible to discern from the noise.

    We probably will never know the truth -- and since we now live in an age when "truth" is defined as whatever the "Whos" want it to be, does it really matter anymore?

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Pericles

    I mean, it’s not all that difficult. Epstein was funded by Wexler (owner of Victoria’s Secret, who handed him all that money to manage and the NYC townhouse) while Maxwell (international woman of mystery) was his handler and helper, all so that Mossad could obtain blackmail material on US elites (and, incidentally or not, some others). I’d bet that’s basically the story.

  124. @Muggles
    @Jack D

    I have both read and been told by several medical professionals, including phlebotomists (techs who draw blood) that the blood drawn from the skin-only isn't valid for nearly all blood related tests.

    Which is why they draw from veins.

    It has something to do with the blood composition and mix in the dermis as opposed to the overall circulatory systems. Insufficient quantity and thinness of the stuff.

    I have yet to read this fact or idea mentioned in the context of the Theranos hoax. I'm not sure if or how they addressed this problem.

    One would assume that this would be a major problem for Holmes & Company. Or did they just use Liz's batted eyelashes to assume this away.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Exactly. That is the whole reason why nobody in the medical community believed in Theranos.

    There was no real breakthrough in blood testing methodology. You cannot just dilute blood with water and test it. It was just a scam from the beginning.

    • Replies: @acementhead
    @Jonathan Mason


    no real breakthrough in blood testing methodology
     
    You mean 'method' not "methodology". Methodology means "the study of method"; the clue is in the "ology", which always means study. Methodology is not a word that clever people use, instead of the correct 'method'(to demonstrate how clever they are), it is a word that idiots and bullshitters use. You(and everybody) should follow El Guapo's rule.
  125. @JohnnyWalker123
    https://twitter.com/TrackerTrial/status/1467914254900736012

    https://twitter.com/TrackerTrial/status/1467887421576597508

    https://twitter.com/kirbysommers/status/1295588496720240640

    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Pieties Prurient, @Bardon Kaldian, @Jack D, @Ben tillman, @Mina Horowitz

    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.

    I thought Kubrick already showed us.

    • Agree: JohnnyWalker123
    • LOL: BB753
  126. @Jack D
    @JohnnyWalker123


    In 1999 Angelina Jolie wrote this note...
     
    What's amazing to me about this trial is that the alleged criminal acts occurred 20 years and more ago. Except for murder, statutes of limitations for most crimes in the US used to be (and rightly so) quite short (and except for #MeToo crimes, they still are). If Maxwell had robbed a bank and pistol whipped the guards in 1994 instead of arranging for willing girls above the age of consent to give her boss "massages", the statute of limitations would have expired in 1999 but here she is on trial 25 years later.

    Apparently, reviving expired statutes of limitations does not constitute an "ex post facto" law prohibited by the Constitution but IMHO it should.

    Replies: @Ben tillman

    Jack, you’re mistaken. Reviving an expired limitations period does violate the ex post facto clause (according to the courts). Extending an unexpired limitations term, however, does not.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Ben tillman

    Yes, you are correct. My mistake. It was a close (5 to 4) S. Ct. decision in 2003.

    Replies: @Ben tillman, @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Hangnail Hans
    @Ben tillman

    Does this relate to why Bill Clinton isn't involved in the Ghislaine trial in any way? At least as a material witness? I'm frankly amazed at how many times he flew on the Lolita Express, not to mention how many times he had Epstein over to the White House.

    But then if he weren't coated in Teflon he'd have been me-too'd several times by now. Successfully I mean. Prince Andrew must be noting the irony.

  127. @Jonathan Mason
    @Achmed E. Newman


    It’s great to read something from you when you write about something that you actually know about from experience, Jonathan.

    I agree that he was not likely murdered over some money he was assumed to have. However, have you worked in a prison with prisoners who hold information that can rat out the elites of the world?

     

    Nope, but there are lots of prisoners whom many people would like to kill, but how often do people break into prisons in the middle of the night and kill them?

    I know enough about security systems in prisons to know that all the hallways have cameras, and that there are heavy-duty sliding gates all over the place that one has to negotiate via the master control to move from one part of the building to another, plus heavy duty sally ports at the entrances and exits, with cameras all over the place.

    OK the camera that was focused on Epstein's hallway was not working on the night in question, but the killers would have had to pass other cameras and other centrally controlled doors to get to close him. And while law enforcement in the US may be incredibly corrupt, prisons are full of people who have nothing better to do than gossip, so a massive conspiracy to kill an inmate would never be kept secret.

    The idea that correctional officers used their key to open the doors of other inmates and then opened the door of Epstein's cell, or that they lent their keys to inmates to enter Epstein's cell and kill Epstein while they looked the other way does not seem at all credible to me. It seems like something out of a James Bond movie.

    Occam's Razor says Epstein hanged himself.

    Yes, prisons do need to protect suicidal inmates, but because inmates have civil rights suicidal precautions such as no clothes, suicide smocks, no sheets, , no bunk, just a concrete bench, continuous line of sight observation, finger foods only, no plastic silver ware and so on can only be ordered by a prison psychiatrist not by COs, except in an emergency situation until the inmate is assessed by a nurse who would then probably talk to the psychiatrist on the phone if he was not in the building.

    If this was not the case, then probably all inmates would be kept naked for their own safety.

    Having inmates on suicide precautions is not very popular either with medical departments or with security, because it involves a shitload of paperwork and hundreds of dollars of overtime expenses for each 24 hours. Plus a lot of the time when inmates say they are suicidal, there is some kind of secondary motive, like wanting a change of cell mate, or a move to another prison.

    Epstein had already been on suicide precautions, but had requested to be taken off and I would imagine he probably gave the psychiatrist his word that he would not hurt himself, and was given a cell mate, but there was some screw up, which is pretty common in prisons and he had no cell mate on the night in question.

    Prisons have people called "classification officers" who are a bit more educated than the grunt level COs and when a cellmate is assigned, they have to be deemed suitable by classification.

    Epstein's last cell mate was a chap called Efrain “Stone” Reyes who was a cooperating witness in a narcotics case, so he probably also had hits out on him in the criminal underworld. He and Epstein got on OK and apparently Epstein bought contraband drugs for him (that's what friends are for.)

    Less than 24 hours before Epstein died, Reyes was transferred to a prison run by GEO corporation, formerly Wackenhut (yes I once worked for them too) leaving Epstein alone in his cell.

    Epstein was found hanged in his cell at 6:30 a.m. when breakfast was distributed on August 10th, which was a Saturday morning. Probably classification had goofed off early on Friday and there was no one to assign a new cell mate to Epstein at the weekend.

    Classification requires that cell mates be assigned for compatibility, so that they don't kill each other. For example, they cannot be members of opposing gangs, and age, race, size, weight, history of violence, type of offence, and other variables are taken into account, so it cannot just be done by anyone.

    Can you hang yourself from a bunk? Sure, you can. I have personally known people who have hanged themselves from doorknobs, from shower faucet handles, and from clothing closed handles.

    I also once knew a woman who successfully hanged herself even when she had an employee right there with her as an escort. She had a bandage round her arm where she had previously superficially cut herself, and she unwrapped it and wrapped it round the shower head, then a couple of times around her neck, and jumped, and she was dead before the employee could support her weight or remove the bandage. Take my word for it. Please do not try this at home to see if it works.

    PS. I only post stuff here is it is something I know about, or something I am interested in. Considering that most people here post under pseudonyms and fail to state their credentials to comment on particular topics, I do not think I am exceptional. I just happen to have a wide range of interests and experiences.

    Replies: @James N. Kennett

    I hope that US prisons are better at suicide prevention than their British counterparts. If a British prisoner is considered a suicide risk, he is put on “suicide watch”: this means solitary confinement, and a visual check through the grille in the cell door every 15 minutes. This is practically an invitation to commit suicide, as long as the prisoner can do so in 14½ minutes. Under this regime, the notorious serial killers Fred West and Harold Shipman each managed to hang himself.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @James N. Kennett

    Yes I think the British system of suicide prevention is pretty weak, and as you say, can be an invitation to suicide.

    The trouble with the suicide prevention system in the US being so rigorous is that it makes it less likely to be implemented.

    The problem on both sides of the Atlantic is that savvy prisoners know how to use suicide threats to manipulate, and that the majority of correctional officers or prison officers are not particularly objective when it comes to evaluating suicidal threats especially if the inmate concerned is a "frequent flyer" in that respect.

  128. Siri informs that GM is charged with violating the Mann Act, i.e. some ridiculous, unconstitutional federal law. It also informs that EH is charged with various flavors of wire fraud, i.e. she used a phone to say something that the federal government doesn’t like.

    Big Government at work. The lawyer-USAs are totally out-of-control.

  129. @Grimdork
    Hilarious; the defense in the smollett hate hoax trial attempts to force a mistrial by … committing a hate hoax against the judge!


    “ Overall, Smollett's defense has relied on inflammatory questioning of witnesses and outbursts that have led to several heated exchanges with Judge James Linn.

    For example, in cross-examination of Ola Osundairo, after Linn directed the defense to move on from a particular line of questioning, defense attorney Tamara Walker asked for a mistrial, sobbed in court and then said the judge had "lunged" at her during a sidebar conversation.”
     
    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/06/us/jussie-smollett-trial-monday/index.html

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans

    The conversion of the trial to a who/whom racial dispute continues apace. Can’t really blame the defense, because it’s their job to get jussie off however they can. And blacks sobbing in court because of something white men (even imaginary white men) may or may not have done is a pretty sure-fire route to success in current year America.

  130. @Ben tillman
    @Jack D

    Jack, you’re mistaken. Reviving an expired limitations period does violate the ex post facto clause (according to the courts). Extending an unexpired limitations term, however, does not.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Hangnail Hans

    Yes, you are correct. My mistake. It was a close (5 to 4) S. Ct. decision in 2003.

    • Replies: @Ben tillman
    @Jack D

    And, for the record, I agree.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    Ha! Now that'a real iSteve thread first, Jack D. admitting in so many words, that he was WRONG! I know you are right a lot, Jack, but when you are shown to be wrong, I have found that you simply don't reply.

    .


    .


    See, watch.

  131. @Ben tillman
    @Jack D

    Jack, you’re mistaken. Reviving an expired limitations period does violate the ex post facto clause (according to the courts). Extending an unexpired limitations term, however, does not.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Hangnail Hans

    Does this relate to why Bill Clinton isn’t involved in the Ghislaine trial in any way? At least as a material witness? I’m frankly amazed at how many times he flew on the Lolita Express, not to mention how many times he had Epstein over to the White House.

    But then if he weren’t coated in Teflon he’d have been me-too’d several times by now. Successfully I mean. Prince Andrew must be noting the irony.

  132. @TWS
    @JimDandy

    I keep reading on Unz that this was all a mossad honeypot. Is that something Unz came up with, some Alex Jones level stuff? Flat earth and faked moon landing or is this serious? I know Unz has its fair share of glowies and keyboard Tourette types who have put parentheses around every damn thing. So which is this?

    Replies: @JimDandy, @PhysicistDave

    You mad, bro? Cuz you sound really, really stupid right now.

  133. Regarding the Theranos thing. Sure it gained traction from fear of needles, but the average person already sees over small handheld devices for measuring blood glucose levels for example, drawn from a single pinprick of blood. It’s not unrealistic to imagine that the same technology could be expanded to a host of other tests – which are actually legitimate lines of research. So yes, it was a scam but with enough familiarity that investors signed up.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @APL

    Yes some tests can be done with a single drop of blood, such as an ACCU-CHEK for a fasting blood sugar, or a test for warfarin levels, but many common test in hematology, blood chemistry, and coagulation require that the collected blood be centrifuged to separate the cells from the serum.

    For example how could you get a hematocrit reading without doing this?

    This is such an obvious basic and fundamental question, that it would be hard to go beyond it without Theranos providing at least a theory.

    Replies: @AKAHorace

  134. @JohnnyWalker123
    https://twitter.com/TrackerTrial/status/1467914254900736012

    https://twitter.com/TrackerTrial/status/1467887421576597508

    https://twitter.com/kirbysommers/status/1295588496720240640

    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Pieties Prurient, @Bardon Kaldian, @Jack D, @Ben tillman, @Mina Horowitz

    As someone who’s had a peek into elite circles in my life, this is not always true. That stuff is very extreme. But I will say that affairs are quite common. When you have a lot of money, power, and fame, the idea of staying faithful to your wife or husband seems like an unnecessary sacrifice. Also fraught relationships between children and parents. And spoiled, delusional, entitled children who get everything through nepotism and name recognition yet are very aware of it and it crushes them psychologically because they can never measure up to their parents, resulting in some very nasty personality types. My advice is always stay away from kids of uber famous/rich people.

  135. @Scott in PA
    Seems Jussie is counting on one or two jurors to hang the jury. Not an unrealistic strategy given current conditions.

    Replies: @TWS, @Hibernian, @David In TN

    There will be tremendous pressure not to retry him. If there’s a compromise verdict convicting him of one or two counts he will get the best possible legal counsel for appeal (his lawyer in this trial is an obvious clown) and probably win, maybe because the State will throw the appeal

  136. @Jack Armstrong
    @Jack D

    Derek Chauvin?

    Replies: @Jack D

    He was just resting his knee.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D

    I have been in a situation in various times of my life training people like prison officers and emergency room personnel in restraining violent people.

    Most people don't realize how easy it is to kill people by holding them down on the ground, particularly in the prone or face-down position, and particularly if they are overweight or fat, and unused to wrestling, because they may go into respiratory failure and quickly lose consciousness if they are not put in the lateral resting position.

    To be honest I don't think Chauvin realized how dangerous the situation was, and he was probably pretty pissed off with the sainted one spoiling his afternoon, and not in the mood to play nice.

    He probably wasn't cutting off George's airway with his knee, but the pressure of holding him on the ground was restricting the movement of his rib cage and diaphragm.

    Chauvin was a cop and not an EMT or medical provider, but he should have been trained better.

    Hopefully that episode will make police forces everywhere even more aware of the dangers of forcefully holding people down on the ground.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Pericles

  137. Just another reminder: Smollett’s defense attorney, Tamara Walker, tried to force a mistrial in Jussie’s doomed hate hoax trial with YET ANOTHER hate hoax; claiming the white male judge moved in to physically attack her for being black:

    After the sidebar, Linn directed jurors to leave the courtroom, and Walker again asked for a mistrial — this time in open court — because of the collateral comment “as well as your physical actions toward me in the sidebar.”

    Linn strenuously denied making threatening moves…

    Walker said she viewed the encounter as part of a long pattern of disrespect toward female attorneys — particularly Black female attorneys — in courtrooms across the country.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-jussie-smollett-attorney-judge-lunge-20211204-ymrallnl4zeibcp5gqen5dg6la-story.html?outputType=amp

    Judge Linn also allegedly screamed “This is MAGA justice!” at Walker while pouring milk over her head.

  138. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D


    Remember that this is the same FBI that denied for decades that the Mafia even existed.
     
    Are you sure you have this right? My recollection is that the Feds were trying to prove the existence of the Mafia/Mob/La Cosa Nostra as an organization for decades but none of the member co-conspirators would talk and explicitly confirm its existence due to the strong oath of omerta. It wasn't until Valachi and then subsequent informant-witnesses that the existence of a definite criminal organization could be proven.

    Now, of course, any two people to the right of Mitt Romney are a "white supremacist organization" engaged in some sort of incipient "right wing domestic terror" once they talk politics together. And the fully politicized FBI denies the existence of Antifa in conformity with Democratic party political demands despite the clear outlines of an organization (they even have uniforms of a sort, and webs of funding and logistical support, which is not necessarily to say that they commit defined 'predicate acts' under RICO).

    Replies: @Jack D, @Sam Malone, @Paperback Writer, @Paperback Writer

  139. @The Alarmist
    Sounds like a setup to a joke:

    “A Jewish Princess, a black, and a bimbo walk into a courthouse, and ....”

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Dmon, @Hibernian

    Ghislaine is a Princess? Well, in some ways maybe yeah.

  140. @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D

    Did you know that they were surveilling the mostly peaceful protests in the Summer of Floyd? When was the first you heard of this - was it my comment, or did you know before?

    Replies: @Jack D

    Well I knew of the FBI drone footage from the Rittenhouse trial, though not before IIRC. So about a month ago. Frankly I was not shocked.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D

    Shocked or not, neither of us knew during the Summer of Floyd that all of the protests were being surveilled, droned, and videoed.

    Replies: @Pericles

  141. I just had a thought about Maxwell. Perhaps she should have let her hair go gray after she was arrested. No make up. She’d look like an old lady. Maybe a frumpy dress with long sleeves and a white lace collar instead of her standard fitted sheath. Not look elegant and pass for 45 at trial.

  142. @Mike Tre
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Trial of the Moment?

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    That’s more like it.

  143. Jeopardy! has a black chem prof from Howard on tonight, and he just answered a clue about String Theory.

  144. @AnotherDad
    @cliff arroyo


    So far…. surely Rittenhouse has been the trial of the century. The state and media and tech sectors threw everything they had at him… lots of courtroom drama…. and he walked.
     
    Rittenhouse was the most dramatic.

    But the "trial of the century" so far this century has been Derek Chauvin.

    A black career criminal ODs on Chauvin waiting for the ambulance--which is late due to screwed up ("affirmative action?") dispatch prioritization--while he's doing (or looks like he's doing) the knee-on-the-neck restraint producing bad optics.

    All the great and the good rush to denounce and string up the deplorable flyover country gentile for his racist, Nazi oppression of a saintly virtuous minority (a drug dealing thug).


    Chauvin was essentially the right of white police to police blacks is on trial. In effect the right of deplorable American whites to maintain their Western Christian civilized norms is put on trial.

    And the verdict is "no"--and in fact with the laughable "murder" conviction, "damn no!"

    We white gentiles have no right to live in communities or a nation with our traditional civilized norms. We are serfs, who must serve and bow and scrap before our minoritarian masters.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Prometheus Martel, @Ben tillman

    George Zimmerman’s trial is another contender for trial of the century. The great white — strike that — tri-racial defendant!

  145. @Bardon Kaldian
    @JohnnyWalker123

    That could be...well, the truth.

    1. no grand spying

    2. no grand schemes

    3. no horror stuff- ritual murders etc.

    Basically, a prostitution ring that would be legal in other countries with lower age level of consent. Young chicks in demand, dominated by hormones & in pursuit of money & "fame". Powerful & influential older men getting what I'd call "sexual minimum" - not anything they could have dreamed of in deeper recesses of their perverted minds (S &M, bondage, orgies, various exxxtreme fetishes, ...).

    And oldies could engage in their small silly stuff (Clinton's cross-dressing) & perhaps some folksy occultism, not anything strenuous or serious. LRH need not apply.

    Prostitution with chief pimp just having a bad luck because the whole thing got out.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Rob

    Aren’t there European countries or Caribbean playgrounds with younger age of consent and legal prostitution, though perhaps not simultaneously? If not, it seems like an underserved market niche, considering the popularity of Epstein’s friends’ services. If so, why not avail themselves of that? Was the fantasy that Epstein sold that these were enthusiastically consenting seventeen-year-olds? Like, they could hire a prostitute, but that would feel so tawdry? All, ‘wow Bill Clinton?!? I’m not that kind of girl, but I’m so overwhelmed by your charisma that I want to…”, and they were drunk and/or coked up and wanted to believe, so they did?

    For a man who was supposed to be super-smooth and amazingly charismatic, Slick Willy (eww)pulled some women of… questionable quality. Hilary was very pretty in her prime, but Paula Jones? Did Clinton fantasize about women like Paula Jones when he was a poor boy in Arkansas, so the adult Ivy League lookers that one would think a President could have just were not his thing? He liked the twang or multi-syllable “hello” of women like Jones?

    I’ll bet Latin American Presidents laughed at him.

    “Your country is more powerful than ours, but your women…”

    “What’s wrong with American women?”

    “Nothing is wrong with American women, señor. Your women…”

  146. @Jack D
    @Ben tillman

    Yes, you are correct. My mistake. It was a close (5 to 4) S. Ct. decision in 2003.

    Replies: @Ben tillman, @Achmed E. Newman

    And, for the record, I agree.

  147. @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Except for the 3 12 year old French triplets. I’m glad some one recognizes the difference between pedeophilia and sexual interest in underage minors.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    As creepy as it sounds, even those 12-year-old triplets might have been the subjects of Epstein’s (and his guest’s) hebephilia and not pedophilia, depending on the girls’ development at the time.

    “Hebephilia is the strong, persistent sexual interest by adults in pubescent children who are in early adolescence, typically ages 11–14 and showing Tanner stages 2 to 3 of physical development,” according to Wikipedia (the font of all knowledge) and footnoted to: Stephens S, Seto MC (2015). Phenix A, Hoberman H (eds.). Sexual Offending: Predisposing Antecedents, Assessments and Management. Springer. pp. 29–41.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The thing is Buzz, just reading the news articles posted on UNZ made it very clear Epstein wanted short thin fair haired Nordic Barbie doll underdeveloped for their age girls. That’s why his henchmen or girls had to work so hard finding them in Miami where so many locals are darker Hispanics. There were some videos of girls coming and going from his NYC house. They may have been 16 but they were very small and flat chested.

    But if you want to defend a nation wide search for 11 or 12 year old short thin underdeveloped Nordic type triplets, bringing them to Pedo Island across international borders, raping them and putting them on a commercial flight home before they even stopped bleeding, go right ahead you filthy old pervert.

    I never realized how perverted and horrible men are until the summer of 2019 when Epstein was arrested. And the MEN OF UNZ defended Epstein while fantasying about harems of pretty little living Barbie dolls.

    If that French model agent pimp procurer friend of Epstein’s had procured 12 year old prepubescent boys; would you creepy perverts defend that? If he preferred young teen boys would you guys defend Epstein the way you do?

    I doubt it.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Buzz Mohawk, @Classy Classicist

    , @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I know the difference between pedophilia and hebephilia Sex crimes LEO. 12:05 am on the 13th birthday of the minor hebephilia. 11:55 pm the day before the 13th birthday pedeophilia and a much harsher sentence if caught.

    Psycho perverts. Women and girls talk you know. The general consensus is that we are hassled and approached by creepy old perverts more between the ages of 6 and 11 or 5 ft tall than we are once we are 12 13 and look more like teens than children. Maybe it’s because the smaller we are the easy we are to grab and rape.

    Replies: @Pratt, @Buzz Mohawk

  148. @Jack D
    @Ben tillman

    Yes, you are correct. My mistake. It was a close (5 to 4) S. Ct. decision in 2003.

    Replies: @Ben tillman, @Achmed E. Newman

    Ha! Now that’a real iSteve thread first, Jack D. admitting in so many words, that he was WRONG! I know you are right a lot, Jack, but when you are shown to be wrong, I have found that you simply don’t reply.

    .

    .

    See, watch.

  149. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D


    Remember that this is the same FBI that denied for decades that the Mafia even existed.
     
    Are you sure you have this right? My recollection is that the Feds were trying to prove the existence of the Mafia/Mob/La Cosa Nostra as an organization for decades but none of the member co-conspirators would talk and explicitly confirm its existence due to the strong oath of omerta. It wasn't until Valachi and then subsequent informant-witnesses that the existence of a definite criminal organization could be proven.

    Now, of course, any two people to the right of Mitt Romney are a "white supremacist organization" engaged in some sort of incipient "right wing domestic terror" once they talk politics together. And the fully politicized FBI denies the existence of Antifa in conformity with Democratic party political demands despite the clear outlines of an organization (they even have uniforms of a sort, and webs of funding and logistical support, which is not necessarily to say that they commit defined 'predicate acts' under RICO).

    Replies: @Jack D, @Sam Malone, @Paperback Writer, @Paperback Writer

    I think he’s mostly right on that point. I’m sure there were plenty of individual FBI agents in the 1920s-50s who would would have liked to nail Mafia figures, and efforts were no doubt made from time to time that usually encountered roadblocks like omerta – as well as the ridiculously trivial jail sentences that were often given out by state and local courts before the federal RICO legislation was introduced in the mid to late 1960s.

    (I’ve always thought a great story could be told about the importance of the RICO laws, for the first time arming the federal government with the legal tools, and courts with the severe and predictable penalties, that together made it possible to actually harm the organized criminal groups it chose to target. It took 20 years of application, but by the late 80s the Italian Mafia was nothing at all like it had been. See Tony Soprano’s speech to his shrink in one of the first episodes of ‘The Sopranos’ – he explains how a guy in the old days would do some time and keep quiet when the ‘time’ was 2 or 3 years, or maybe 5-10 at most. But, he says, when the sentences became 20-30 years, or life, people would start telling anything they knew to buy a lighter sentence – and then is was all over.)

    But my understanding has always been that under Hoover’s direction the FBI chose not to seriously pursue organized crime groups like the Mafia, much less acknowledge their reality, until, as you say, they were forced to by developments in the late 50s/early 60s. The reason usually given is that Hoover wished instead to focus the Bureau’s efforts and propaganda on anti-radical operations.

    I’ve always assumed that the main reason was actually a desire to avoid having his cherished Bureau forced to get down in the mud and wrestle with scum who had plenty of resources and few compunctions, incurring plenty of failure and grisly setbacks in the public’s view all in service to the hopeless task of eliminating vice. Much easier to have a I-leave-you-alone-you-leave-me-alone policy with them.

    It was always political investigations that brought Mafia activity to light in the late 50s/early 60s, whether Senator Kefauver’s televised committee or Attorney General Robert Kennedy’s probes, but Hoover held his fire on them to the extent possible, for as long as possible. I wouldn’t discount at all the rumors that the Mafia or it’s affiliates had some dirt on him that influenced this decision.

  150. @Jonathan Mason
    @Anonymous

    I have worked in a prison and I know how things work.

    If he was suspected of having cash on him, he would be removed from a cell, sent to the shower, his clothing and cell searched while he was in the shower, and so on.

    Why would the prison staff jeopardize their well-paid federal jobs with loads of overtime, lavish benefits, and pensions to steal cash from inmates? Or allow other inmates to kill inmates?

    Too much risk, besides which you don't understand how lazy correctional officers are. You think they want to run the risk of some sexual pervert biting them and giving them AIDS (as they would see it)?

    People who believe Epstein was murdered in prison are people whose experience of life is mostly confined to watching TV.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @JimDandy, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous

    If this report is true, the guards were convinced he knew the location of a large amount of ready cash (obviously not on his person but stashed somewhere.) Large enough to make concerns over jobs, benefits and pensions irrelevant. Who could have put that idea in their heads?

  151. @Jack D
    @Jack Armstrong

    He was just resting his knee.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    I have been in a situation in various times of my life training people like prison officers and emergency room personnel in restraining violent people.

    Most people don’t realize how easy it is to kill people by holding them down on the ground, particularly in the prone or face-down position, and particularly if they are overweight or fat, and unused to wrestling, because they may go into respiratory failure and quickly lose consciousness if they are not put in the lateral resting position.

    To be honest I don’t think Chauvin realized how dangerous the situation was, and he was probably pretty pissed off with the sainted one spoiling his afternoon, and not in the mood to play nice.

    He probably wasn’t cutting off George’s airway with his knee, but the pressure of holding him on the ground was restricting the movement of his rib cage and diaphragm.

    Chauvin was a cop and not an EMT or medical provider, but he should have been trained better.

    Hopefully that episode will make police forces everywhere even more aware of the dangers of forcefully holding people down on the ground.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    Even if Chauvin was unaware at first, various people in the crowd, including EMTs, pointed it out to him and begged him to let go. At that point, something else happened - he wasn't going to let the crowd boss him around and lose face and perhaps lose control of the situation. He was in a hole and he violated the first rule of holes, which is to stop digging.

    All that being said, I don't think that Chauvin at any point ever had homicidal intent and I think that something like negligent homicide would have been the more appropriate verdict.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alden

    , @Pericles
    @Jonathan Mason

    Then there was the fact that Floyd had overdosed on fentanyl. But never mind.

  152. @James N. Kennett
    @Jonathan Mason

    I hope that US prisons are better at suicide prevention than their British counterparts. If a British prisoner is considered a suicide risk, he is put on "suicide watch": this means solitary confinement, and a visual check through the grille in the cell door every 15 minutes. This is practically an invitation to commit suicide, as long as the prisoner can do so in 14½ minutes. Under this regime, the notorious serial killers Fred West and Harold Shipman each managed to hang himself.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Yes I think the British system of suicide prevention is pretty weak, and as you say, can be an invitation to suicide.

    The trouble with the suicide prevention system in the US being so rigorous is that it makes it less likely to be implemented.

    The problem on both sides of the Atlantic is that savvy prisoners know how to use suicide threats to manipulate, and that the majority of correctional officers or prison officers are not particularly objective when it comes to evaluating suicidal threats especially if the inmate concerned is a “frequent flyer” in that respect.

    • Agree: Alden
  153. @Jonathan Mason
    In the Maxwell trial the prosecution seems to be on the verge of collapse if all they have is information that is tangential to the specific charges that Maxwell was deliberately recruiting and trafficking underage girls for acts of prostitution with Epstein and others twenty years ago.

    It also seems apparent that there should be a few other women on trial with her.

    Let the chips fall where they may.

    Incidentally, it seems like those who are inclined to conspiracy theories believe that Epstein was murdered in prison. I don't see any reason not to believe that he committed suicide. He could see the writing on the wall and knew that it was A Good Time To Die.

    As far as the Robert Maxwell is concerned, he might have been a spy for Israel, but his main services seem to has been in obtaining weapons for Israel shortly after World War II. That alone could account for the state funeral in Israel.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Anonymous, @JimDandy

    Well, and, you know, stuff like this:

    “Shortly before Maxwell’s death, a former employee of Israel’s Military Intelligence Directorate, Ari Ben-Menashe, approached a number of news organisations in Britain and the US with the allegation that Maxwell and the Daily Mirror’s foreign editor, Nicholas Davies, were both long-time agents for Mossad. Ben-Menashe also claimed that, in 1986, Maxwell informed the Israeli Embassy in London that Mordechai Vanunu revealed information about Israel’s nuclear capability to The Sunday Times, then to the Daily Mirror. Vanunu was subsequently kidnapped by Mossad and smuggled to Israel, convicted of treason and imprisoned for eighteen years.”

  154. This pretty much sums up my view of the Maxwell case:

    https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/319549667/

  155. @Anonymous
    @SafeNow


    When the justice-system dog recognizes an evil-doer as friendly to it, it will not bark at him with a trial. No actual trial is as extraordinary.
     
    That could well be. You certainly make a compelling point.

    Is it, though, any less egregious when the converse happens? When a trial is nothing more than a sham; a travesty of justice? When a frenzy of moral panic, hysteria, and in many cases, patently ignoble and even transparently malicious motives, drive libel that destroys lives and reputations?

    Few here, I have little doubt, could not readily name at least one and likely any number of cases that considers to be a clear, incontrovertible example of said phenomenon. How many, however, would include in their list of such examples the "2011 Penn State scandal that led to the disgrace of football coach Joe Paterno and the conviction of his former defensive coordinator, Jerry Sandusky, for child sexual abuse"*?
    (*Quote is from the James Leroy Wilson post on Substack that I link and quote further from below.)

    How many would even so much as consider the possibility that the accusations that were so successfully (and lucratively) pursued against even Paterno, let alone Sandusky, may have, in fact, been wholly or even merely largely unsubstantiated, or even entirely false?

    If Jerry Sandusky, before he dies, were to be granted a new trial...Could that not be called The Trial of the Century?

    Mark Pendegrast and John Ziegler have each presented compelling cases that at the very least, Jerry Sandusky is entitled to a new trial.

    Pendegrast presents his case in his 2017 book, The Most Hated Man in America - Jerry Sandusky and the Rush to Judgment (Sunbury Press)

    Ziegler's work on the case, which includes much written material, as well as both videos and an entire series of podcasts, With The Benefit of Hindsight, can be found at
    framingpaterno dot com *
    From the home page:

    an incompetent, ratings-driven media told this story in a way not consistent with the facts, or even basic logic, and are now too invested in their fairytale to ever correct their colossal errors.
    ...
    While this site began as a defense of Paterno, after investigating the case for two years and interviewing Sandusky twice in prison, it became obvious that Sandusky himself has also been done a horrendous injustice. While this revelation will be shocking to people who have not followed the case closely, if you look at the evidence here with an open mind, there is little doubt that you will come to the same conclusion.
     
    In a May 26th post, Jerry Sandusky and restoring the presumption of innocence, blogger James Leroy Wilson writes that Ziegler's With The Benefit of Hindsight podcast, "includes recordings of interviews he made during his investigation as well as live interviews with guests." and that it

    provides compelling evidence that:

    1. The eyewitness to the "shower incident" changed his story numerous times, but based on his initial story, Paterno and Penn State administrators had no cause to believe any crime took place, and are NOT GUILTY of a coverup.

    2. Sandusky himself was innocent of all charges.
     
    Wilson goes on, in the same piece, to write,

    When state prosecutors want to bring someone down, their resources seem infinite while the defense is only as good as the defendant can afford. When a case becomes a media firestorm, but the public mainly hears the State's version of things, it's hard to get an unbiased jury.

    Yes, jury members have an intellectual understanding that the accused is "innocent until proven guilty." And they may be conscientious in holding to that presumption. But when the prosecutors tell the press that the accused is a monster, and jury members had heard very little else about the accused, they'll be inclined to accept a lower standard of "proof."
     

    Replies: @Ben tillman

    I’m open-minded on the subject, sure. Everything is hearsay to me. I did not witness any of it.

  156. @Undisclosed
    @EuroNat

    Steve is unimpressed by your threat.

    You struggle to be heard. Here, there, with your wife, with your child, and in general.

    So to you, being heard is the sweet nectar of life.

    And so you erroneously presume that Steve lives for that too.

    You are an incel who thinks that a sultan lives in terror of losing his harem and dreams of nothing more than increasing it with troublesome never'beens.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    You are an incel who thinks that a sultan lives in terror of losing his harem

    Nu, if he has a wife and child as you said earlier, how is he an incel?

  157. @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer

    Well I knew of the FBI drone footage from the Rittenhouse trial, though not before IIRC. So about a month ago. Frankly I was not shocked.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    Shocked or not, neither of us knew during the Summer of Floyd that all of the protests were being surveilled, droned, and videoed.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Paperback Writer

    Even though the antifa attacked those who filmed them with literal impunity. The difference is the government tapes are in a safe place.

  158. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D


    Remember that this is the same FBI that denied for decades that the Mafia even existed.
     
    Are you sure you have this right? My recollection is that the Feds were trying to prove the existence of the Mafia/Mob/La Cosa Nostra as an organization for decades but none of the member co-conspirators would talk and explicitly confirm its existence due to the strong oath of omerta. It wasn't until Valachi and then subsequent informant-witnesses that the existence of a definite criminal organization could be proven.

    Now, of course, any two people to the right of Mitt Romney are a "white supremacist organization" engaged in some sort of incipient "right wing domestic terror" once they talk politics together. And the fully politicized FBI denies the existence of Antifa in conformity with Democratic party political demands despite the clear outlines of an organization (they even have uniforms of a sort, and webs of funding and logistical support, which is not necessarily to say that they commit defined 'predicate acts' under RICO).

    Replies: @Jack D, @Sam Malone, @Paperback Writer, @Paperback Writer

    And the fully politicized FBI denies the existence of Antifa in conformity with Democratic party political demands despite the clear outlines of an organization (they even have uniforms of a sort, and webs of funding and logistical support, which is not necessarily to say that they commit defined ‘predicate acts’ under RICO).

    Things aren’t always what they seem. What is the FBI supposed to do, put out a press release with a headline that says, “We Admit It: Antifa Is A Menace”?

    Maybe I’m nuts, but I think the FBI realizes that Antifa is a threat, BLM is a threat, there is a non-trivial segment of American society that sympathizes with the radical left.

    Also, unpopular opinion: I don’t think the Patriot Front marchers were Feds. They do exist, and they put on a show in D.C.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Paperback Writer


    Things aren’t always what they seem. What is the FBI supposed to do, put out a press release with a headline that says, “We Admit It: Antifa Is A Menace”?

    Maybe I’m nuts, but I think the FBI realizes that Antifa is a threat, BLM is a threat, there is a non-trivial segment of American society that sympathizes with the radical left.
     
    Well, I suppose the FBI Director could admit the existence of Antifa as an organization under Congressional questioning.

    And perhaps the FBI could prosecute Federal crimes perpetrated by Antifa types from time to time?

    My overarching concern is that people at the DOJ with power are among the "non-trivial segment of American society that sympathizes with the radical left," and this is why Antifa and BLM are getting the velvet glove treatment by the Federal law enforcement agencies.
  159. @Buzz Mohawk
    @AnotherDad

    Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

    We are only two decades into this tiresome century. There will be more and worse.

    "Trial of the Century" proclamations are silly.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @kaganovitch

    We are only two decades into this tiresome century. There will be more and worse.“Trial of the Century” proclamations are silly.

    I remember one of the Times film critics writing about “Battlefield Earth”, Travolta’s Scientology film which premiered in 2000, something along the lines of “It’s not too early to declare this the worst film of the 21st century.”

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @kaganovitch


    ...which premiered in 2000, something along the lines of “It’s not too early to declare this the worst film of the 21st century.”
     
    When it premiered in the 20th.
    , @Ben tillman
    @kaganovitch

    Ha ha — even though the 21st century didn’t start until the following year.

  160. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Alden

    As creepy as it sounds, even those 12-year-old triplets might have been the subjects of Epstein's (and his guest's) hebephilia and not pedophilia, depending on the girls' development at the time.

    "Hebephilia is the strong, persistent sexual interest by adults in pubescent children who are in early adolescence, typically ages 11–14 and showing Tanner stages 2 to 3 of physical development," according to Wikipedia (the font of all knowledge) and footnoted to: Stephens S, Seto MC (2015). Phenix A, Hoberman H (eds.). Sexual Offending: Predisposing Antecedents, Assessments and Management. Springer. pp. 29–41.

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden

    The thing is Buzz, just reading the news articles posted on UNZ made it very clear Epstein wanted short thin fair haired Nordic Barbie doll underdeveloped for their age girls. That’s why his henchmen or girls had to work so hard finding them in Miami where so many locals are darker Hispanics. There were some videos of girls coming and going from his NYC house. They may have been 16 but they were very small and flat chested.

    But if you want to defend a nation wide search for 11 or 12 year old short thin underdeveloped Nordic type triplets, bringing them to Pedo Island across international borders, raping them and putting them on a commercial flight home before they even stopped bleeding, go right ahead you filthy old pervert.

    I never realized how perverted and horrible men are until the summer of 2019 when Epstein was arrested. And the MEN OF UNZ defended Epstein while fantasying about harems of pretty little living Barbie dolls.

    If that French model agent pimp procurer friend of Epstein’s had procured 12 year old prepubescent boys; would you creepy perverts defend that? If he preferred young teen boys would you guys defend Epstein the way you do?

    I doubt it.

    • Agree: TWS
    • Replies: @ic1000
    @Alden

    > And the MEN OF UNZ defended Epstein [in the summer of 2019 when he was arrested]

    ?? I don't read all of the comments, but I would have remembered that.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    @Alden

    When have I ever defended Epstein or Maxwell?

    What I have done is to clarify what they did that we have been told about, and how common and often consensual those things are. I have also stated that we are being given so much information of that banal nature, and only that nature, that it may be serving as squid ink to make it impossible to ever know if there is more to the story.

    Rich and powerful people, or just ordinary johns, having sex with essentially adolescent females is not news, but it is being made out to be the whole story. We will never know if it is.

    Dog Bites Man may be hiding Man Bites Dog.

    , @Classy Classicist
    @Alden


    And the MEN OF UNZ defended Epstein while fantasying about harems of pretty little living Barbie dolls.
     
    I cannot speak for any of the other MEN OF UNZ [TM], Ms. Alden. But you ought to know that I, at least, am a very respectable man. Take my erotic interests, for example: strictly limited-to unmarried females above the age of 21. And males below the age of ~17...
  161. @TWS
    @EuroNat

    You think Steve gives a rats ass about what order or even who posts? He can't be bothered to spam the Duck's sock puppets. Humans can see weird patterns in anything

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    He can’t be bothered to spam the Duck’s sock puppets.

    Why would he do that? They have tremendous entertainment value.

    • LOL: TWS
  162. @Bill in Glendale
    Smollett claims the brothers tried to shake him down through his lawyers, but has no proof.

    Can the judge force his lawyers to confirm or deny this away from the jury? It seems like obvious perjury and the lawyers know it. It seems to go beyond "everyday perjury," when the lawyers are said to be involved and could testify to who/what/when, but they then present this to the jury as fact.

    Replies: @Ben tillman

    The prosecution can put Jussie’s lawyers on the stand and question them in front of the jury like any other witness.

    And the judge will likely be very angry because it is an ethical violation for an attorney to represent a client in a case in which he is a fact witness. Of course, in this case, the lawyers probably didn’t know Jussie was going to make this claim when they agreed to represent him.

  163. @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Nah, she was just scared of needles. The same impulse that drives anti-vaxxers and why my dog doesn't like going to the vet.

    We tend to overthink things - so much of life comes down to basic impulses. Epstein liked to get off. Holmes - scare of needles. Jussie liked being famous.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Jack Armstrong, @Mike Tre, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

    The same impulse that drives anti-vaxxers…

    Calling Covid skeptics “anti-vaxxers” is like calling Bill Cosby’s accusers “white supremacists”.

  164. @kaganovitch
    @Buzz Mohawk

    We are only two decades into this tiresome century. There will be more and worse.“Trial of the Century” proclamations are silly.

    I remember one of the Times film critics writing about "Battlefield Earth", Travolta's Scientology film which premiered in 2000, something along the lines of "It's not too early to declare this the worst film of the 21st century."

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Ben tillman

    …which premiered in 2000, something along the lines of “It’s not too early to declare this the worst film of the 21st century.”

    When it premiered in the 20th.

  165. @Matthew Kelly
    My take? This country and its institutions are so thoroughly Bolshevik'ed I can't possibly work up entertain the idea that there's a sliver of hope that justice might actually be meted out to any member of this motley cast of characters.

    My main focus is keeping my under 10-year-olds from getting vaxxed while still allowing them to participate in society in this god-forsaken hell hole of a city thanks to DiBlasio's latest edict.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Known Fact

    this god-forsaken hell hole of a city thanks to DiBlasio’s latest edict.

    Has anyone located Eric Adams and asked him about DeB’s insane new proclamations — destructive mandates that would supposedly take effect just five days before Adams takes over this smouldering hulk of a city?

    • Replies: @Seneca44
    @Known Fact

    From what I've seen of Mr. Adams, his interests lie more in fly dressing (or is it dressin' fly?) and spending late nights in the clubs. I get the impression that the mundane business of municipal governance is not utmost in his mind.

  166. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Alden

    As creepy as it sounds, even those 12-year-old triplets might have been the subjects of Epstein's (and his guest's) hebephilia and not pedophilia, depending on the girls' development at the time.

    "Hebephilia is the strong, persistent sexual interest by adults in pubescent children who are in early adolescence, typically ages 11–14 and showing Tanner stages 2 to 3 of physical development," according to Wikipedia (the font of all knowledge) and footnoted to: Stephens S, Seto MC (2015). Phenix A, Hoberman H (eds.). Sexual Offending: Predisposing Antecedents, Assessments and Management. Springer. pp. 29–41.

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden

    I know the difference between pedophilia and hebephilia Sex crimes LEO. 12:05 am on the 13th birthday of the minor hebephilia. 11:55 pm the day before the 13th birthday pedeophilia and a much harsher sentence if caught.

    Psycho perverts. Women and girls talk you know. The general consensus is that we are hassled and approached by creepy old perverts more between the ages of 6 and 11 or 5 ft tall than we are once we are 12 13 and look more like teens than children. Maybe it’s because the smaller we are the easy we are to grab and rape.

    • Replies: @Pratt
    @Alden

    The wymynz, they suffer so much.

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    @Alden

    What Maxwell and Epstein did regarding adolescent females is inexcusable, and you are making a mistake if you think I am condoning it or excusing them.

    Your problem here is often that you get into your rant about how evil men are and their evil attraction to sexually desirable women.

    Your description of little, Nordic Barbie dolls reveals your insecurity about attractive women and what men naturally seek. You are simply describing neoteny, a normal trait of all attractive humans, especially sexually attractive young women.

    In my twenties, I favored petite, perky brunettes. Some of them had A-cups or even "bee stings." There were a lot of skinny little women in Boulder, Colorado, and all the ones of that type I was lucky enough to date were in their twenties like me.

    The neotenous type many men favor can be of almost any age. Looking for them does not mean a man is looking for jailbait.

    Then again, you say I am a pervert.

    Well, this pervert is not defending the Maxwell/Epstein partnership. In my opinion, they were crazy and evil even if all they did was what we are talking about.

    Replies: @Alden

  167. @Jonathan Mason
    @Muggles

    Exactly. That is the whole reason why nobody in the medical community believed in Theranos.

    There was no real breakthrough in blood testing methodology. You cannot just dilute blood with water and test it. It was just a scam from the beginning.

    Replies: @acementhead

    no real breakthrough in blood testing methodology

    You mean ‘method’ not “methodology”. Methodology means “the study of method”; the clue is in the “ology”, which always means study. Methodology is not a word that clever people use, instead of the correct ‘method'(to demonstrate how clever they are), it is a word that idiots and bullshitters use. You(and everybody) should follow El Guapo’s rule.

  168. @Jonathan Mason
    @Anonymous

    It would be better to fine her such a large amount that she would be forced to file for bankruptcy. Otherwise she could end up doing a short prison sentence and then living a life of luxury.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    It would be better to fine her such a large amount that she would be forced to file for bankruptcy. Otherwise she could end up doing a short prison sentence and then living a life of luxury.

    It would appear that Ms. Holmes dreads a prison sentence more than loss of wealth,(of which she has none anymore anyway but whatever) else she could have pleaded guilty and saved millions.

  169. @Pieties Prurient
    @JohnnyWalker123


    The Epstein-Maxwell has offered a fascinating glimpse into what really happens in elite circles. Sexual debauchery, prostitution, murder, blackmail, and Occultism.
     
    Or, perhaps, postings and commentary such as JohnnyWalker123's signature fare reveal more about what lurks deep within their authors' minds than anything else.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/this-new-pixar-movie-looks-promising/#comment-4729712


    Anonymous8090 says:
    June 19, 2021 at 1:21 am GMT

    [...]will never tire of attempting to hide their own disgusting sexual interests through projecting them in to others. People like him WISH these stories were true, only with THEM in the leading role. Much as married women gossip about young trollops and blue haired fatsos inveigh against men having their way with women. I’ll bet JohnnyO and his bedset wife can only get in the mood by watching L&O SVU.

    All of this, from modern women selling their sexuality twice, first as predators then as prey, to the gross innards of the sexually starved sinners who can’t help but expose themselves through their particular preferred dragons they white knite against, through feminist fawning over 50 shades of grey…

    All of this was so obvious for so long that it was discussed by many Greeks, even more Romans, Hindus in the manusmriti, Jews in the talmud, and by virtually every single literary tradition in history.

    Whether it’s democrats bursting with disgust (read: displaced envy) for kavanaugh or republicans drinking up the second generation byproducts of whatever Q culture as they imagine, over and over again, what sort of (fun!) depravities the more secular minded americans must be having — these degenerates never realize that all they are doing is flashing their own sagging genitals in public.

    Nobody bears greater sexual guilt than those who unwittingly rorschach their tribal enemies into sexual fiends.

    A POSTSCRIPT: Anyone who fancies himself pure of heart and deed is invited to step forward before God to cast The First Stone.

    I thought so.
     

    As Shakespeare famously put-it, The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

    Essentially Carl Jung's famous observation, encapsulated by Hermann Hesse,

    If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Gabe Ruth, @YetAnotherAnon, @Alexander Turok

    +1

    The QAnon believer is immune to all dangers. One may call him a liar, idiot, nazi, violent extremist, it all runs off of him like water off a raincoat. But call him a white knight and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: ‘I’ve been found out.’

  170. @kaganovitch
    @Buzz Mohawk

    We are only two decades into this tiresome century. There will be more and worse.“Trial of the Century” proclamations are silly.

    I remember one of the Times film critics writing about "Battlefield Earth", Travolta's Scientology film which premiered in 2000, something along the lines of "It's not too early to declare this the worst film of the 21st century."

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Ben tillman

    Ha ha — even though the 21st century didn’t start until the following year.

  171. The Trial of the Century will be whether vax mandates stand or fall

  172. @TWS
    @JimDandy

    I keep reading on Unz that this was all a mossad honeypot. Is that something Unz came up with, some Alex Jones level stuff? Flat earth and faked moon landing or is this serious? I know Unz has its fair share of glowies and keyboard Tourette types who have put parentheses around every damn thing. So which is this?

    Replies: @JimDandy, @PhysicistDave

    TWS asked:

    I keep reading on Unz that this was all a mossad honeypot. Is that something Unz came up with, some Alex Jones level stuff? Flat earth and faked moon landing or is this serious?

    Well… why don’t you bother to do a bit of googling about Ghislaine’s dad?

    Here, for example, is a comment from The Israeli press:

    [Maxwell père] was buried on Jerusalem’s Mount of Olives in the presence of numerous Israeli intelligence figures, and eulogized by then prime minister Yitzhak Shamir. Amid reports of his links to Britain’s MI6 intelligence, the KGB and Mossad, Shamir declared that Maxwell “has done more for Israel than can today be said.”

    Yeah, yeah, I know: Alex Jones control the Israeli press!

    And then try to figure out where Epstein got his money, what his and Ghislanine’s motives could have been for their bizarre behavior, and, well..

    There is such a thing as the most reasonable hypothesis.

    • Agree: Bumpkin, Almost Missouri
    • Thanks: TWS
  173. Rob says:
    @Chrisnonymous
    Re possibly non-fictional trials....

    It appears the Chinese have found General Zod on the Moon.

    So, now the only question is which reporter is Superman?

    It would explain how Chris Cuomo could get to Long Island so easily and easily lift those big weights, but Superman wouldn't need to isolate for Corona and wouldn't be such a mendacious idiot.

    Matt Taibbi has a good jaw line, but he isn't dorky enough. Superman's alter ego would never write for Rolling Stone and have an electric guitar in the background of his webcam.

    That leaves... Glenn Greenwald? He's the right tribe, a dorky enough to be an alter ego, and most likely to be attracted to wearing a skin-tight unitard.

    But if Glenn Greenwald is Superman, that means--

    Lois Lane is a beard!!

    Replies: @I, Libertine, @Pericles, @Rob

    Considering how poor China was when I was born, it is astounding that they are ahead of us in real terms. American real estate might be more expensive, but the Chinese can build cities. Can the US still land on the moon? I realize that Bruce Charlton’s “can the US land men on the moon?” test is not really the best, as there is little that can be done with the Moon unless launch costs drop a lot. But the US is not working on transformative launch tech. No fifty-kilometer-high launch towers that would cut fuel to orbit by 30%, to take one example.

    In light of China’s rise and America’s relative and absolute decline, what can we learn from the Chinese way that could be applied to America? China’s growth is often derided as “catch up” growth. But if catching up is so easy, why has a huge chunk of the world not done it? Hell, peoples are living in first-world countries that cannot manage to catch up.

    Just spitballing, here are two reasons America is falling behind. The diversity tax and the lawyer tax. Both are largely optional expenses on a societal scale. At an extreme, an American Cæsar could just hang judges until a somewhat-diminished Supreme Court ruled legal challenges could be streamlined.

    Diversity tax first. It sucks up a huge portion of federal and state budgets. The fact that the bureaucracy is chock full of dimmer people than would be there if we still had the civil service exam is a massive, unrecognized cost. There’s also the huge opportunity cost of having huge chunks of the government not merely worthless, but actively harmful. Has the Department of Education ever done something useful? Wasn’t a Bush going to eliminate it? Pretty sure he raised the budget.

    [MORE]

    The cargo cult mentality of diversity hurts us in innumerable ways. A smart department of education would look for opportunities for efficiency. They do not have to have the same negative incentives that teachers, principals, and superintendents have. Wouldn’t it be great if we could achieve the same results in K-12 that we get today for 80% of the cost? For 50%? Is there anyone in DOE that thinks this way? A useful DOE would look at all the bureaucracy that big-city schools have, Bureaucrats whose jobs are, in practice, to make teaching harder, and push hard to have big (black) cities use the money to teach kids rather than provide patronage for the people who should be running small businesses, y’know, doing useful work, but are instead educrats who work hard to keep the worst kids in classes with everyone else, so the horrible kids are not “stigmatized” by assignment to prison-school. Īf funding for those school systems had to come from local taxes, there would be pressure to streamline, get educational results, or both. Instead, there is just a money training from the state and federal government. To paraphrase a commercial, the bureaucrats do their money dance, and money rains down for “education.”

    Then there are the direct diversity taxes that businesses have to pay. So far, companies have propitiated the diversity gods with white women. This has been, in some senses not terrible, but in other ways horribly destructive. On the not-terrible side, women are not dumber than men, at least in “verbal intelligence,” which is so much more than being good at reading. Where women’s interests and abilities do not lie, in tech and engineering, they have mostly been absent, up until recently. Terrible results include the collapse in the TFR of bright women, the idea that diversity is nearly costless, and enlarging the pool of AA-eligible people to include most of the country. It has driven a wedge between the political interests of white men and women.

    The non-white diversities are eventually going to catch wise, God bless their lower “verbal intelligence” that has kept them from figuring it out and demand that quotas, or goals, or targets for diversity be calculated with white women counting as “non-diverse.” This would be a great result for the sane part of the country, by shrinking the diverse coalition, and reasonable given the supposed reasons for affirmative action. Like every white man, every white woman had white patent(s) passing down whatever privilege, meaning culture, that they had. Once white men decided to stop discriminating against women, white women were very well-positioned to run the course of honors. Education, the highway to increased income, now that Asia does all the manufacturing, has always been extremely female-dominated on the contact-with-students end. For whatever reasons, girls get better evaluations from teachers, both officially in grades and on the “fuzzier” end of how teachers treat them, give recommendations, that sort of thing. At a very minimum, women learn the accents and manners of speaking that are necessary to climb in America as well as their brothers. This is not to claim that “white privilege” is the thing that BLMers say it is, certainly “white trash” girls do not learn the proper accents at home. But pro-man women surely do.

    Blacks must get tired of women and alien diversity taking up the set-asides. How can reasonable people nudge the democrats into pushing white women off the gravy chain?

    Perhaps, though, we do not have a diversity tax so much as a NAM tax? How much do we have to pay for extra security measures that China does not, because China would handle a domestic black population much more thoroughly than we have? So far at least. But cutting the diversity tax first seems like a less “crime against humanity” way to cut the cost than directly solving the root problem.

    Back to China, they don’t have to pay the diversity taxes we do, as they are in an integrationist phase, “encouraging” minority women to marry the excess Han men and putting uppity minority men in prison camps, which at the very least, must hurt their reproductive output. Their educational system can focus on educating kids, as they don’t bene over backward to hide the stupidity and savagery of Uighurs, as we must do with blacks.

    I’m pretty sure they don’t have the problems with an over-lawyered upper class that we do. Take nuclear power. China can just build plants. I would bet money that legal expenses would be a good third of the cost of building a new nuclear plant in the US. Including the cost of the delay in opening date, and lawyering is probably 2/3 of the cost of building. Maybe nuclear plants are at the extreme end of lawyer tax, but building most anything, certainly anything big and new has huge lawyer taxes. The lawyer tax has a chilling effect on innovation, even a school superintendent who wanted to cut some of the diversity tax would not be able to because of lawyer tax. No locality can have an “if you are illegally in the country, it is illegal for you to be in x county/city,” because of lawyer tax. I believe someplace in Kansas tried to prohibit illegals from renting in the county. They had to pay (tens of?) millions in lawyer tax. To add insult and injury to injury, they had to pay the lawyer tax for the GO-NGOs that sued them. When the person you are suing has to pay your legal expenses, you have every incentive to maximize your legal expenses.

    So, diversity tax and lawyer tax. What other “taxes” do Americans have to pay to do anything that the Chinese don’t?

    • Thanks: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @Abolish_public_education
    @Rob

    Wouldn’t it be great if [DOEd] could achieve the same results in K-12 that we get today for 80% of the cost?

    There's no such thing as a useful bureaucracy. You already mentioned just a few, destructive elements of what DoEd is actually in business for.

    Home schools are private schools; done by age ~15. Compared to public schools (trending towards preK-14), per individual student, they achieve:

    • maximum learning results (the difference often substantial),
    • minimum amount of anti-socialization (zero bullying), at
    10% of the cost.

    a school superintendent who wanted to cut some of the diversity tax would not be able to because of lawyer tax.

    The lawyer tax is caused by too many laws; get the licensed lawyers OUT of the legislative branch. Education laws are a prime example. As for the EdD superintendents, they're just local commissars -- 90% of them left-wing -- several bureaucratic layers below the top.

    If funding for those school systems had to come from local taxes ..

    No. Public education CANNOT be reformed (and certainly not by re-tweaking its funding formula). It needs to be abolished.

  174. @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The thing is Buzz, just reading the news articles posted on UNZ made it very clear Epstein wanted short thin fair haired Nordic Barbie doll underdeveloped for their age girls. That’s why his henchmen or girls had to work so hard finding them in Miami where so many locals are darker Hispanics. There were some videos of girls coming and going from his NYC house. They may have been 16 but they were very small and flat chested.

    But if you want to defend a nation wide search for 11 or 12 year old short thin underdeveloped Nordic type triplets, bringing them to Pedo Island across international borders, raping them and putting them on a commercial flight home before they even stopped bleeding, go right ahead you filthy old pervert.

    I never realized how perverted and horrible men are until the summer of 2019 when Epstein was arrested. And the MEN OF UNZ defended Epstein while fantasying about harems of pretty little living Barbie dolls.

    If that French model agent pimp procurer friend of Epstein’s had procured 12 year old prepubescent boys; would you creepy perverts defend that? If he preferred young teen boys would you guys defend Epstein the way you do?

    I doubt it.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Buzz Mohawk, @Classy Classicist

    > And the MEN OF UNZ defended Epstein [in the summer of 2019 when he was arrested]

    ?? I don’t read all of the comments, but I would have remembered that.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @ic1000



    > And the MEN OF UNZ defended Epstein
     
    ?? I don’t read all of the comments, but I would have remembered that.
     
    Brian, perhaps, or Joseph. But Jeffrey? Nah. Not around here.
  175. @Jonathan Mason
    The Theranos scheme seems to have been a scam from the get-go, because they never offered any explanation as to what technological advance they had made that made it possible to carry out blood chemistry and hematology lab tests that require venous blood using drops of capillary blood.

    Probably it started out as a scheme to scam some money out of elderly billionaires, then at some point it all got out of control and the perps began to believe their own hype.

    It is noticeable that nobody at all has been called as a witness who was actually involved in developing new technology for Theranos.

    I don't see any particular point in sending Elizabeth Holmes to prison, but she should be stripped of whatever remains of her ill-gotten gains, otherwise the trial is a waste of time.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Anonymous, @Brutusale, @Jack D, @RonaldReagansLoveChildWithMadonna2

    “The Theranos scheme seems to have been a scam from the get-go,”

    I’m fascinated by this question. Was she always just a con artist or did she genuinely think she could make it work if she just tried hard enough and put the right people together? A correllary is … what about the ostensibly smart people who were working for her? Did they drink the Kool-Aid? Did they know it was a scam? Did they know it wouldn’t work but figured they would just get paid while telling her it would work?

    At the risk of ruining my latest anonymous manifestation, I spent a day with someone who was working directly under her, to guide her through the regulatory process which they had originally, supposedly naively, ignored because no one had any experience in the medical device development process (which is much different from normal tech stuff). This person was either a pathological liar or was genuinely of the belief that the product could work.

    Another data point: I spent Thanksgiving with family who are actual bad-ass medical researchers and they seem to agree with the premise that anyone with any experience what-so-ever in this area would have seen it as bullshit from a mile away.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @RonaldReagansLoveChildWithMadonna2

    Again ridiculous.

    Did they really think that eventually Medicare was going to pay out billions of dollars a year to use their process without going through a lot of regulatory hoops?

    Did they really believe that they were on route to the Nobel prize for medicine?

    Replies: @Alden

    , @Jack D
    @RonaldReagansLoveChildWithMadonna2

    Holmes had very little scientific background. I don't think she started out planning a fraud. At first she was a dreamer. And they made a certain amount of progress. The Theranos machine was capable of performing a certain (small) number of tests (although I think even these were unreliable and later voided).

    The original plan was the well known SV plan of "fake it 'till you make it" (although dummy software is not as dangerous as dummy blood tests). But at some point (we'll see what the jury says) she crossed the line and started doing things like adding drug company logos to reports that she had written and telling investors that the military was buying their product when they weren't. IF she could just get another $X million from investors, they would be able to fix the problems and make the machines actually work, so the lies were in the service of a good cause. All the people in her lab who were telling her that it wasn't working were just projecting negative energy and had to be replaced with more positive thinking people. It's sort of like the classic embezzlement scheme where you think that you are just "borrowing" the money from the vault and will give it back later once you win at the casino. And at some point you realize that you are deep in the hole and it's all going to blow up if you fess up so it's better to keep digging and hope for a miracle.

  176. @Reg Cæsar
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Finally, you're on-topic.

    What was Spacey doing on that island? I thought it was all girls. On the other hand, if Epstein's only dealing with Trump was trying to finagle a girl's way into one of his pageants, and Donald didn't bite, he comes out looking better. Who'da thunk it?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Paperback Writer, @Alexander Turok

    Maybe they didn’t know he was gay when they pulled a random celebrity name out of their a**. At this point I’m surprised nobody’s accused Stephen Hawking.

  177. Anon[376] • Disclaimer says:

    Slightly off-topic language interlude:

    Jussie Smollett Denies Faking Attack on Stand: ‘That’s a Bold-Faced Lie’
    https://www.vulture.com/2021/12/jussie-smollett-calls-hoax-claim-a-lie-in-testimony-day-2.html

    Bold-faced, as in the font-style? That’s a late 20th century coinage. Early 20th century was bald-faced. In the 19th century it was barefaced. Barefaced is not often used now. As a pedantic contrarian, I recommend it. But bald-faced trumps bold-faced in edited writing.

    • Agree: JimDandy, Ben tillman
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    That's funny how terms evolve, and not unreasonably. Bold-faced sounds pretty close to right in the Steve Jobs era when we all deal with fonts more than the average person did in the past.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Jack D

    , @JimDandy
    @Anon

    I liked when Jussie attacked hate mongols. We need to stand up to them before it's too late.

  178. @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The thing is Buzz, just reading the news articles posted on UNZ made it very clear Epstein wanted short thin fair haired Nordic Barbie doll underdeveloped for their age girls. That’s why his henchmen or girls had to work so hard finding them in Miami where so many locals are darker Hispanics. There were some videos of girls coming and going from his NYC house. They may have been 16 but they were very small and flat chested.

    But if you want to defend a nation wide search for 11 or 12 year old short thin underdeveloped Nordic type triplets, bringing them to Pedo Island across international borders, raping them and putting them on a commercial flight home before they even stopped bleeding, go right ahead you filthy old pervert.

    I never realized how perverted and horrible men are until the summer of 2019 when Epstein was arrested. And the MEN OF UNZ defended Epstein while fantasying about harems of pretty little living Barbie dolls.

    If that French model agent pimp procurer friend of Epstein’s had procured 12 year old prepubescent boys; would you creepy perverts defend that? If he preferred young teen boys would you guys defend Epstein the way you do?

    I doubt it.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Buzz Mohawk, @Classy Classicist

    When have I ever defended Epstein or Maxwell?

    What I have done is to clarify what they did that we have been told about, and how common and often consensual those things are. I have also stated that we are being given so much information of that banal nature, and only that nature, that it may be serving as squid ink to make it impossible to ever know if there is more to the story.

    Rich and powerful people, or just ordinary johns, having sex with essentially adolescent females is not news, but it is being made out to be the whole story. We will never know if it is.

    Dog Bites Man may be hiding Man Bites Dog.

  179. @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I know the difference between pedophilia and hebephilia Sex crimes LEO. 12:05 am on the 13th birthday of the minor hebephilia. 11:55 pm the day before the 13th birthday pedeophilia and a much harsher sentence if caught.

    Psycho perverts. Women and girls talk you know. The general consensus is that we are hassled and approached by creepy old perverts more between the ages of 6 and 11 or 5 ft tall than we are once we are 12 13 and look more like teens than children. Maybe it’s because the smaller we are the easy we are to grab and rape.

    Replies: @Pratt, @Buzz Mohawk

    The wymynz, they suffer so much.

  180. One issue that I think plays a role in all of these trials and much else in our society: the feminization of our society.

    By “feminization” (Rosie and Alden!), I do not mean how all or even most women actually behave. I mean the stereotypical, long-time meme as to how women behave.

    For example: If Emily and Joshua are squabbling, people tend to assume that Mom will not hold a careful trial, with admission of evidence, as to “who started it.” Rather, people tend to assume that Mom will just tend to “smooth things over” and make everyone happy little playmates again.

    Similarly, if Joshua has little Emily crying, we tend to think Mom will say, “Well, Joshua, it does not matter that you did not intend to hurt Emily: can’t you see that she is upset?”

    And in a family environment, all of that kind of makes sense: people have to live together, conflicts need to be smoothed over, family members need to be attentive to other family members’ feelings.

    The famous ethical theorist Carol Gilligan argued that females tend to pursue an “ethics of care” while men tend to pursue an ethic of abstract, objective justice.

    To lay it out explicitly:
    A) Feelings matter, and matter more than almost anything else.
    B) Conflicts are resolved by “smoothing things over” and pretending that the conflicts did not really happen.
    C) Caring matters more than justice.
    D) Suffering matters more than anything.

    Please note: Neither I nor Gilligan is claiming that this distinction is necessarily based on genetic differences between the sexes. However, most people do seem to perceive these differences between the two sexes, and there does seem to be some basis in fact for this perception.

    Perhaps the difference is merely due to the fact that women tend to be moms (don’t we want moms to act this way?) and that men tend to spend much of their time outside the family in the larger society. Or perhaps there is indeed some genetic basis.

    I’m not sure it matters. The fact is that the “feminine” ethics of caring makes lots of sense within a nuclear family in which everyone knows everyone else extremely well, and can therefore take into account individuals’ specific needs and character (e.g., who tends to lie a lot?).

    But the feminized ethics does not make sense in a larger impersonal society in which sociopaths — Jussie Smollett, Elizabeth Holmes, etc. — can hide their character from others for quite a while, simply because no one can possibly know most other people in a large society in the detailed way she know others in her own nuclear family.

    I think most people here will agree that we all sort of know this is what is happening: I am just trying to lay it our clearly and explicitly (yes, I know — a very male tendency!).

    Does anyone doubt that this explains a lot about the ongoing court trials as well as broader issues in our contemporary society more generally?

    • Thanks: John Regan
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @PhysicistDave


    Perhaps the difference is merely due to the fact that women tend to be moms (don’t we want moms to act this way?) and that men tend to spend much of their time outside the family in the larger society. Or perhaps there is indeed some genetic basis.
     
    I think your overall thesis describes reality but I don't think this ethos is necessarily formed by women being mothers, but rather women being the physically weaker sex and therefore pursuing a social strategy of dissembling and manipulation over the use of force to get their needs met. If you can't impose your will physically on half of the tribe, what does bare-bones factual objective "justice" matter? Even if you're right, you can't do anything about it. You need to recruit men to your side in order to exert force, albeit indirectly. You can do that by any number of means, including using sex and the emotional bonds of a sexual relationship with a man to entice him to do your bidding in the wider world. How many fights are started by the boyfriend/husband of a sobbing woman? In the main, the process is claiming a great (emotional) injury and suffering in order to get a man or men to set things right.

    If you have young daughters or nieces you observe this in process - they learn at very young ages that they can get what they want by manipulating people, particularly men. It's cute because it's so very obvious, and they haven't acquired the guile yet to really disguise what they're doing all of the way.

    The flip side of this is that women's conflicts with each other are similarly veiled and their strategies are calculated to cause emotional suffering often by withdrawal of social status. Being outside or at the periphery of the tribe is probably much more terrifying for women because historically it probably signaled a slide towards deprivation and death.

    Now, take a step back and look at political conflicts in the United States. The female party and its constituent elements use claims of harm and suffering and resultant emotional manipulations very effectively - "Kids in Cages!" "Indelible in my Hippocampus!" "I cain't breeve!" In these cases, the actual facts about what happened, and the law governing those facts and what would constitute justice fall by the wayside. The narratives are about sufferings that need redress. In an active, more aggressive approach, the female party engineers the ultimate sanction: if you oppose it, there is no real need that you be proven wrong according to the existing dictates of justice - you just get exiled from and shunned by the wider tribe.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

  181. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Buzz Mohawk


    Back in Florida, who told people to “leave him alone because he is with intelligence? Why?

    The sheer amounts of money that fell on the guy are hard to explain, plus wasn’t he basically gifted his Manhattan home?
     
    It's probably pretty easy to fake being "with intelligence" to local prosecutors or even a U.S. Attorney if you have powerful friends, or at least people indebted to you because you have tapes of them committing felonies. I'd dare say that it might be the preferred explanation, because it is a cover story that 1) explains the secrecy about your origins and wealth; and, 2) explains why you get away with crimes, and should continue to get away with crimes.

    That said, I wouldn't rule out that he may have actually been "with intelligence." It's just that for the purposes of some of this stuff it starts not to matter so much whether it was true or just perception.

    When there are so many pieces of information in a mystery as to make it all contradictory and impossible to understand, I call that “squid ink.” It is a tactic designed to make the truth impossible to discern from the noise.
     
    I think that in a case like this, "squid ink" should refer to the fodder for false conspiracy theories that the powers that be have and will continue to release. "Conspiracy theories" serve the powerful in cases like this because they direct public attention towards ridiculous stories and away from the true nexus of power to Epstein and Maxwell. Eventually low information news consumers will have a choice between believing that Epstein and Maxwell were intergalactic lizard people in human skin suits or just two insane sex maniacs with money, and they will choose the latter which will serve obscure the truth.

    Replies: @Alden

    Didn’t President Clinton as well as scientists and other VIPs write letters to the Miami prosecutors demanding a lenient sentence after Epstein pled to a few charges of soliciting for prostitution of minors AKA pimping? It was on this site I think.

    Pimping of an underage 16 year old prostitute and statutory sex with her was what Darrell Brooks was convicted of in Las Vegas. And got him on the sex offender list. He’s not a pedophile just a pimp.

  182. @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I know the difference between pedophilia and hebephilia Sex crimes LEO. 12:05 am on the 13th birthday of the minor hebephilia. 11:55 pm the day before the 13th birthday pedeophilia and a much harsher sentence if caught.

    Psycho perverts. Women and girls talk you know. The general consensus is that we are hassled and approached by creepy old perverts more between the ages of 6 and 11 or 5 ft tall than we are once we are 12 13 and look more like teens than children. Maybe it’s because the smaller we are the easy we are to grab and rape.

    Replies: @Pratt, @Buzz Mohawk

    What Maxwell and Epstein did regarding adolescent females is inexcusable, and you are making a mistake if you think I am condoning it or excusing them.

    Your problem here is often that you get into your rant about how evil men are and their evil attraction to sexually desirable women.

    Your description of little, Nordic Barbie dolls reveals your insecurity about attractive women and what men naturally seek. You are simply describing neoteny, a normal trait of all attractive humans, especially sexually attractive young women.

    In my twenties, I favored petite, perky brunettes. Some of them had A-cups or even “bee stings.” There were a lot of skinny little women in Boulder, Colorado, and all the ones of that type I was lucky enough to date were in their twenties like me.

    The neotenous type many men favor can be of almost any age. Looking for them does not mean a man is looking for jailbait.

    Then again, you say I am a pervert.

    Well, this pervert is not defending the Maxwell/Epstein partnership. In my opinion, they were crazy and evil even if all they did was what we are talking about.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I’m short and thin and my DNA is 40 percent Scandinavian the rest British including Irish and a bit of German. Nordic Barbie doll, that’s me. At least when I was younger. Maybe now grandma Barbie. Even high prominent cheekbones. To the point I was sometimes asked if I were Swedish or Russian You can read just the articles here on UNZ about the Epstein operation. He demanded a certain type short thin fair skin fair hair looking young for their age or Nordic Barbie girls. One reason the henchmen or girls had to work so hard finding his type in Hispanic Miami and NYC where blue eyes and light skin and hair are rarer than in Spain

    I don’t hate men at all. I’m just appalled at the hatred of women displayed here on UNZ.
    Women talk about men all the time. But real actual men they know. And about what those men do. These generalized “ all women are “ meandering oby gyny porn and Fraudian psychology dissertations are just bizarre.

    Replies: @David In TN

  183. 5050716

    Eisenhower sent the White male army to use bayonets to herd White girls into schools with black thugs.

    It was the great boomer hero President Kennedy who issued the executive order six weeks after his inauguration ordering “affirmative action “ in all aspects of federal hiring contracting subsidizes and everything else. If you wonder why every person coming out of your local federal building seems to be a black Woman, White man president Kennedy ordered it in March 1961. Ever been to Washington DC? Walk around at 5 PM black workers pour out of all those federal buildings. Might as well be in an African capital

  184. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Alden

    What Maxwell and Epstein did regarding adolescent females is inexcusable, and you are making a mistake if you think I am condoning it or excusing them.

    Your problem here is often that you get into your rant about how evil men are and their evil attraction to sexually desirable women.

    Your description of little, Nordic Barbie dolls reveals your insecurity about attractive women and what men naturally seek. You are simply describing neoteny, a normal trait of all attractive humans, especially sexually attractive young women.

    In my twenties, I favored petite, perky brunettes. Some of them had A-cups or even "bee stings." There were a lot of skinny little women in Boulder, Colorado, and all the ones of that type I was lucky enough to date were in their twenties like me.

    The neotenous type many men favor can be of almost any age. Looking for them does not mean a man is looking for jailbait.

    Then again, you say I am a pervert.

    Well, this pervert is not defending the Maxwell/Epstein partnership. In my opinion, they were crazy and evil even if all they did was what we are talking about.

    Replies: @Alden

    I’m short and thin and my DNA is 40 percent Scandinavian the rest British including Irish and a bit of German. Nordic Barbie doll, that’s me. At least when I was younger. Maybe now grandma Barbie. Even high prominent cheekbones. To the point I was sometimes asked if I were Swedish or Russian You can read just the articles here on UNZ about the Epstein operation. He demanded a certain type short thin fair skin fair hair looking young for their age or Nordic Barbie girls. One reason the henchmen or girls had to work so hard finding his type in Hispanic Miami and NYC where blue eyes and light skin and hair are rarer than in Spain

    I don’t hate men at all. I’m just appalled at the hatred of women displayed here on UNZ.
    Women talk about men all the time. But real actual men they know. And about what those men do. These generalized “ all women are “ meandering oby gyny porn and Fraudian psychology dissertations are just bizarre.

    • Replies: @David In TN
    @Alden

    I've followed the Jeffrey Epstein Affair. When at his Palm Beach mansion, Epstein used a local high school which was mainly white working class. Epstein ordered his recruiters to "get me white girls only."

    Epstein would keep the girls on a string by paying them to bring other girls to him. The standard price was $200 for servicing him and $200 more for bringing another girl. Once, a recruiter brought a black girl she knew to Epstein's mansion. Epstein told the black girl to leave, don't know if he paid her.

    Epstein liked them white, fair and petite, and preferably low income, which made them controllable. This type would be harder to find in NYC.

    Replies: @Jack D

  185. Unrest eruptions feared.

    Residents near Brooklyn Center police station fear unrest may return as Potter trial begins.

    The scars of April’s unrest, which erupted within hours of the shooting and continued for a week, are still visible: The police station remains a fortress of concrete barricades and two layers of fencing adorned with protesters’ signs. In a nearby strip mall, some storefronts stand vacant. Boost Mobile was looted, and so was the Dollar Tree store, which was set on fire and burned in the chaos.

    The threat of unrest weighs heavily on the minds of Johnson and other residents of Sterling Square Apartments, a group of four buildings and home to mostly low-income families.

    “We are on edge right now,” said Roberta Tullis, 66. “Just imagine how uncomfortable we were. We didn’t know whether we could sleep on our bed or sit on our couch or if we had to get on the floor.”

    Tullis said it’s “trauma on top of trauma” for Black people who saw Wright, a 20-year-old Black man, killed and then for a neighborhood of mostly Black residents to endure the subsequent unrest outside their doors.

    Tullis’ neighbor, 67-year-old veteran Tommy Jackson, said he fears that if Potter is found not guilty, “they’re going to riot again” and he’ll lock himself inside his apartment holding a pistol, just as he did during the unrest of last spring.

    https://www.startribune.com/residents-near-brooklyn-center-police-station-fear-unrest-may-return-as-potter-trial-nears/600124510/

  186. @Anonymous
    @The Alarmist


    Sounds like a setup to a joke:

    “A Jewish Princess, a black, and a bimbo walk into a courthouse, and ….”
     

    Jewish Princess? You mean Jussie?

    Smollett is biracial.[9] His mother is African-American and his father is Jewish.[10]
     
    Jussie’s as Jewish as Ghislaine. Ghislaine’s mother was French Huguenot

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Bill Jones

    Jussie was true to his heritage. The Jewish side slandered the White man, the black side screwed it up.
    Hard not to laugh.

    • LOL: Alden
  187. @Anon
    Slightly off-topic language interlude:

    Jussie Smollett Denies Faking Attack on Stand: ‘That’s a Bold-Faced Lie’
    https://www.vulture.com/2021/12/jussie-smollett-calls-hoax-claim-a-lie-in-testimony-day-2.html

    Bold-faced, as in the font-style? That's a late 20th century coinage. Early 20th century was bald-faced. In the 19th century it was barefaced. Barefaced is not often used now. As a pedantic contrarian, I recommend it. But bald-faced trumps bold-faced in edited writing.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JimDandy

    That’s funny how terms evolve, and not unreasonably. Bold-faced sounds pretty close to right in the Steve Jobs era when we all deal with fonts more than the average person did in the past.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Steve Sailer


    That’s funny how terms evolve, and not unreasonably. Bold-faced sounds pretty close to right in the Steve Jobs era when we all deal with fonts more than the average person did in the past.
     
    Smollett has been a fount of slight malapropisms which could become neologisms - the other was "fear mongrels," which is perhaps a slip given his own unicorn status having mixed black and Jewish racial backgrounds.
    , @Jack D
    @Steve Sailer

    I think it's just the ignorance of a half educated new generation. Today in the NY Post I saw a story in which "hitting the breaks" was mentioned.

  188. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Bardon Kaldian

    "this is something too personal I don’t believe any secret service would be into it, or would have tolerated such “interests” of their puppet"

    Surely a secret service, just like anybody else, has to take people as they find them? Epstein's scientific interests (Pinker and Hawking were among his guests) certainly added to his "social acceptability index".

    A good agent has to have entertainment value, and Epstein certainly had that.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    It wasn’t just an entertainment; it was, say, his “passion”, his big dream fantasy. Central to his life.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Bardon Kaldian

    You misunderstand - to attract people (aka targets) an agent must be good company, people must enjoy being with him. Judging by the stellar list of visitors, his island and his NYC apartment were popular places. Who doesn't like being surrounded by a mix of powerful or famous people (and you're included! or you wouldn't be there!) and pretty young girls?

    And what male finding himself in bed with one of the girls is going to think "has she been told to do this, is she acting under orders?". He'll just put it down to his personality and the wonderfully free atmosphere at good old Jeffrey's parties.

    As I said, he seems to be one of those fortunate people who are able to turn a hobby or passion into a career. And Ghislaine isn't that unusual as a pimpette - a fair few women "swingers" enjoy finding girls for their men. They seem to be into that kind of thing but with new, fresh girls.

    What is odd is that AFAIK, no team of FBI inspectors has gone through the island with a tooth comb (indeed it's all been demolished), as they would for a reported noose at a NASCAR race, no band of forensic investigators is going through the flight logs, interviewing anyone and everyone who's set foot on it, and seeing what kind of picture emerges.

    It's like they don't want to know.

  189. @Paperback Writer
    @Reg Cæsar

    Re: Spacey, maybe he had "bi-curious" fantasies. Chicks were a sick turn on to him. Or maybe they provided boys. Or he brought his own beer.

    What I don't get about this is how bleeping obvious it all was. They were practically asking to be exposed and blackmailed. If you are a rich old billionaire with a taste for young flesh, you can discreetly buy as much of your preferred fare as you want. Why get involved in all of this? For the fellowship?

    Replies: @Boomthorkell, @Achmed E. Newman, @thenon

    You nailed it. Every famous pervert wants company to avoid the danger of standing out, like a schooling fish. On the other hand Steven Pinker probably wanted to use his perm and bleach job to be mistaken for one of the girls.

    • Replies: @AKAHorace
    @thenon


    You nailed it. Every famous pervert wants company to avoid the danger of standing out, like a schooling fish.
     
    Epstein seems to have tried to involve Scientists and Royalty in his social circle. Two groups that people think are respectable and reliable. People who could give him an image of worthyness.
  190. @APL
    Regarding the Theranos thing. Sure it gained traction from fear of needles, but the average person already sees over small handheld devices for measuring blood glucose levels for example, drawn from a single pinprick of blood. It's not unrealistic to imagine that the same technology could be expanded to a host of other tests - which are actually legitimate lines of research. So yes, it was a scam but with enough familiarity that investors signed up.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Yes some tests can be done with a single drop of blood, such as an ACCU-CHEK for a fasting blood sugar, or a test for warfarin levels, but many common test in hematology, blood chemistry, and coagulation require that the collected blood be centrifuged to separate the cells from the serum.

    For example how could you get a hematocrit reading without doing this?

    This is such an obvious basic and fundamental question, that it would be hard to go beyond it without Theranos providing at least a theory.

    • Replies: @AKAHorace
    @Jonathan Mason


    This is such an obvious basic and fundamental question, that it would be hard to go beyond it without Theranos providing at least a theory.
     
    The basic problem with Theranos is that they started with the idea "wouldn't it be cool if we could do this ?" Which might be true. But they had no real idea of how to do them. So they had to push and harass people to come up with a way of doing it, no matter how difficult or unlikely success was.

    Rather than "We have found these results in experiments. What could we do use them for to do something useful ?"

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  191. @RonaldReagansLoveChildWithMadonna2
    @Jonathan Mason

    "The Theranos scheme seems to have been a scam from the get-go,"

    I'm fascinated by this question. Was she always just a con artist or did she genuinely think she could make it work if she just tried hard enough and put the right people together? A correllary is ... what about the ostensibly smart people who were working for her? Did they drink the Kool-Aid? Did they know it was a scam? Did they know it wouldn't work but figured they would just get paid while telling her it would work?

    At the risk of ruining my latest anonymous manifestation, I spent a day with someone who was working directly under her, to guide her through the regulatory process which they had originally, supposedly naively, ignored because no one had any experience in the medical device development process (which is much different from normal tech stuff). This person was either a pathological liar or was genuinely of the belief that the product could work.

    Another data point: I spent Thanksgiving with family who are actual bad-ass medical researchers and they seem to agree with the premise that anyone with any experience what-so-ever in this area would have seen it as bullshit from a mile away.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Jack D

    Again ridiculous.

    Did they really think that eventually Medicare was going to pay out billions of dollars a year to use their process without going through a lot of regulatory hoops?

    Did they really believe that they were on route to the Nobel prize for medicine?

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Jonathan Mason

    Yes they did. You’re very observant about America. But you have to spend an adult lifetime before you realize how ridiculous and truly criminal the American government at all levels is. Except the Post Office. It’s competent and functional. At least where I live.

    I don’t think there’s another country in the world where a military auditor discovered 2? 3? trillion dollars disappeared without a trace just a few days before it’s largest and most important city was attacked by 2 civilian airplanes hijacked by some Arabs. And the auditors offices in the Pentagon military headquarters just happened to be blown up less than an hour after the World Trade Center was blown up.

    And nothing was ever heard of the missing trillions ever again.

    Replies: @Hibernian

  192. @Anon
    Slightly off-topic language interlude:

    Jussie Smollett Denies Faking Attack on Stand: ‘That’s a Bold-Faced Lie’
    https://www.vulture.com/2021/12/jussie-smollett-calls-hoax-claim-a-lie-in-testimony-day-2.html

    Bold-faced, as in the font-style? That's a late 20th century coinage. Early 20th century was bald-faced. In the 19th century it was barefaced. Barefaced is not often used now. As a pedantic contrarian, I recommend it. But bald-faced trumps bold-faced in edited writing.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JimDandy

    I liked when Jussie attacked hate mongols. We need to stand up to them before it’s too late.

  193. @FPD72
    I think that I was your first commenter to claim that the Smollett caper was a hate hoax. I rhetorically asked whether Tawana Brawley had opened an academy to teach others the art of the racism victim hoax.

    Nothing I’ve read, seen, or heard has changed my mind. His claims smelled like week old fish the first time I read them, as cited by another commenter in an unrelated thread to which I replied.

    Replies: @Jimbo, @JimDandy

    I read the first local internet report out loud to friends and literally laughed myself to tears–literally –before I could finish it. The details just kept one-upping themselves in hilarity. But it was all just accepted as fact by the media, the Dems, etc.

    Not as funny:

    Smollett is biracial. His mother is African-American and his father is Jewish. He has said that his father would “kill you if you called him white”.

    • LOL: Hibernian
  194. @Paperback Writer
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)


    And the fully politicized FBI denies the existence of Antifa in conformity with Democratic party political demands despite the clear outlines of an organization (they even have uniforms of a sort, and webs of funding and logistical support, which is not necessarily to say that they commit defined ‘predicate acts’ under RICO).
     
    Things aren't always what they seem. What is the FBI supposed to do, put out a press release with a headline that says, "We Admit It: Antifa Is A Menace"?

    Maybe I'm nuts, but I think the FBI realizes that Antifa is a threat, BLM is a threat, there is a non-trivial segment of American society that sympathizes with the radical left.

    Also, unpopular opinion: I don't think the Patriot Front marchers were Feds. They do exist, and they put on a show in D.C.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Things aren’t always what they seem. What is the FBI supposed to do, put out a press release with a headline that says, “We Admit It: Antifa Is A Menace”?

    Maybe I’m nuts, but I think the FBI realizes that Antifa is a threat, BLM is a threat, there is a non-trivial segment of American society that sympathizes with the radical left.

    Well, I suppose the FBI Director could admit the existence of Antifa as an organization under Congressional questioning.

    And perhaps the FBI could prosecute Federal crimes perpetrated by Antifa types from time to time?

    My overarching concern is that people at the DOJ with power are among the “non-trivial segment of American society that sympathizes with the radical left,” and this is why Antifa and BLM are getting the velvet glove treatment by the Federal law enforcement agencies.

    • Agree: Alden
  195. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    That's funny how terms evolve, and not unreasonably. Bold-faced sounds pretty close to right in the Steve Jobs era when we all deal with fonts more than the average person did in the past.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Jack D

    That’s funny how terms evolve, and not unreasonably. Bold-faced sounds pretty close to right in the Steve Jobs era when we all deal with fonts more than the average person did in the past.

    Smollett has been a fount of slight malapropisms which could become neologisms – the other was “fear mongrels,” which is perhaps a slip given his own unicorn status having mixed black and Jewish racial backgrounds.

  196. @Boomthorkell
    @Paperback Writer

    I figure, for the most part, it's an access to leverage thing.

    A circular firing squad of blackmail, so long as no one pulls the trigger, does wonders for a "supportive" community.

    The sex must be alright, too.

    I figure though billionaires must only get involved to join in on the leverage of the lessers?

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    “access to leverage”

    But there are so many ways to do that. When you’re rich, you can bend people to your will. See “Chinatown.” But the old bastard wasn’t bonking his daughter in a place where people could photograph him!

    My own explanation is this. There is a class of people so removed from reality that they really thought they were immune. The power went to their heads and corrupted them absolutely.

    In Prince Andrew’s case, it’s because he was raised in a bubble and he really doesn’t understand how the world works. In the case of Bill Clinton, it’s because he’s a sicko. And deep down, he wants to get caught.

    JMO.

    • Thanks: Boomthorkell
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer

    When you are in the presence of what would normally seem to be depraved conduct and the other people are not reacting like their hair is on fire, it quickly becomes normalized. One of the Maxwell witnesses testified that one day she was on Epstein's plane and Epstein was having sex with another woman and everyone else was just going about their business, so she did too. Now this girl was a (supposedly naive) teenager and you would think that the adults would know better, but maybe not. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Paperback Writer

    , @Alexander Turok
    @Paperback Writer

    The accusations against Prince Andrew were known about for many years and had no effect on him. That only changed when the media decided they wanted to cancel Alexander Acosta, Trump's secretary of Labor, in 2019.

  197. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D

    I have been in a situation in various times of my life training people like prison officers and emergency room personnel in restraining violent people.

    Most people don't realize how easy it is to kill people by holding them down on the ground, particularly in the prone or face-down position, and particularly if they are overweight or fat, and unused to wrestling, because they may go into respiratory failure and quickly lose consciousness if they are not put in the lateral resting position.

    To be honest I don't think Chauvin realized how dangerous the situation was, and he was probably pretty pissed off with the sainted one spoiling his afternoon, and not in the mood to play nice.

    He probably wasn't cutting off George's airway with his knee, but the pressure of holding him on the ground was restricting the movement of his rib cage and diaphragm.

    Chauvin was a cop and not an EMT or medical provider, but he should have been trained better.

    Hopefully that episode will make police forces everywhere even more aware of the dangers of forcefully holding people down on the ground.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Pericles

    Even if Chauvin was unaware at first, various people in the crowd, including EMTs, pointed it out to him and begged him to let go. At that point, something else happened – he wasn’t going to let the crowd boss him around and lose face and perhaps lose control of the situation. He was in a hole and he violated the first rule of holes, which is to stop digging.

    All that being said, I don’t think that Chauvin at any point ever had homicidal intent and I think that something like negligent homicide would have been the more appropriate verdict.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D


    Even if Chauvin was unaware at first, various people in the crowd, including EMTs, pointed it out to him and begged him to let go. At that point, something else happened – he wasn’t going to let the crowd boss him around and lose face and perhaps lose control of the situation. He was in a hole and he violated the first rule of holes, which is to stop digging.

     

    I think what we're not understanding is that in a dynamic situation under threat from the hostile assembled crowd he probably didn't have a very good understanding of the time elapsing. Cops are taught not to lose control of the scene - that's how really bad things happen, so I'd guess that it was top of mind for Chauvin as the senior officer on scene. He would have no reason to believe someone in plain clothes on scene among the hostile crowd purporting to be an EMT was, in fact, and EMT.

    I watched part of the trial via live stream, and my understanding of the prosecution's theory of the case was that the battery was the "felony" in a felony murder charge (which is bizarre), and that the battery consisted not of Chauvin merely kneeling on Floyd's neck and back (which was a hold taught to Minneapolis cops) but kneeling on his neck and back for the duration of time that he did. (the Prosecution's expert parsed and testified that we didn't train them to perform the hold for that long). Even then, the jury was instructed that it only had to find that this "battery" contributed to Floyd's death among the other contributing causes of his heart arrest including preexisting cardiovascular conditions and the presence of intoxicants including methamphetamines and fentanyl in his system.

    This seems like successive acts of threading the legal needle to me, which in ordinary times and ordinary cases would not have been charged at all.

    All that being said, I don’t think that Chauvin at any point ever had homicidal intent and I think that something like negligent homicide would have been the more appropriate verdict.
     
    To conclude that Chauvin had homicidal intent, you'd have to believe that he conspired with three other officers, one rookie mixed race African American, one rookie white officer, and one Hmong officer - two of whom there is no evidence he had ever met prior, and that he intended to kill Floyd despite calling an ambulance for medical assistance.

    More likely, it was a bad mix of people and factors, including unknowns (the officers observed Floyd to be intoxicated and excited, but they didn't know from what intoxicants), resulting in a death that is statistically inevitable in a nation of 330,000+ people given the number of police interactions per annum. An unfortunate accident, but the natives demanded that a white man be thrown into a volcano, and he was.

    Replies: @ic1000

    , @Alden
    @Jack D

    I don’t mean to be argumentative But career criminal St George , on parole from another state; brought to Minneapolis through a faith based black church government funded program died of a self administered Fentanyl overdose. Coroner found whole not even beginning to dissolve Fentanyl pills in this mouth throat and rectum.

    Government funded means the black activist church that brought a career criminal to Minneapolis was funded by you, me and every other White taxpayer in the country.

    Floyd his baby mommas and relatives should never have been born to be a useless destructive burden on Whites.

  198. @PhysicistDave
    One issue that I think plays a role in all of these trials and much else in our society: the feminization of our society.

    By "feminization" (Rosie and Alden!), I do not mean how all or even most women actually behave. I mean the stereotypical, long-time meme as to how women behave.

    For example: If Emily and Joshua are squabbling, people tend to assume that Mom will not hold a careful trial, with admission of evidence, as to "who started it." Rather, people tend to assume that Mom will just tend to "smooth things over" and make everyone happy little playmates again.

    Similarly, if Joshua has little Emily crying, we tend to think Mom will say, "Well, Joshua, it does not matter that you did not intend to hurt Emily: can't you see that she is upset?"

    And in a family environment, all of that kind of makes sense: people have to live together, conflicts need to be smoothed over, family members need to be attentive to other family members' feelings.

    The famous ethical theorist Carol Gilligan argued that females tend to pursue an "ethics of care" while men tend to pursue an ethic of abstract, objective justice.

    To lay it out explicitly:
    A) Feelings matter, and matter more than almost anything else.
    B) Conflicts are resolved by "smoothing things over" and pretending that the conflicts did not really happen.
    C) Caring matters more than justice.
    D) Suffering matters more than anything.

    Please note: Neither I nor Gilligan is claiming that this distinction is necessarily based on genetic differences between the sexes. However, most people do seem to perceive these differences between the two sexes, and there does seem to be some basis in fact for this perception.

    Perhaps the difference is merely due to the fact that women tend to be moms (don't we want moms to act this way?) and that men tend to spend much of their time outside the family in the larger society. Or perhaps there is indeed some genetic basis.

    I'm not sure it matters. The fact is that the "feminine" ethics of caring makes lots of sense within a nuclear family in which everyone knows everyone else extremely well, and can therefore take into account individuals' specific needs and character (e.g., who tends to lie a lot?).

    But the feminized ethics does not make sense in a larger impersonal society in which sociopaths -- Jussie Smollett, Elizabeth Holmes, etc. -- can hide their character from others for quite a while, simply because no one can possibly know most other people in a large society in the detailed way she know others in her own nuclear family.

    I think most people here will agree that we all sort of know this is what is happening: I am just trying to lay it our clearly and explicitly (yes, I know -- a very male tendency!).

    Does anyone doubt that this explains a lot about the ongoing court trials as well as broader issues in our contemporary society more generally?

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Perhaps the difference is merely due to the fact that women tend to be moms (don’t we want moms to act this way?) and that men tend to spend much of their time outside the family in the larger society. Or perhaps there is indeed some genetic basis.

    I think your overall thesis describes reality but I don’t think this ethos is necessarily formed by women being mothers, but rather women being the physically weaker sex and therefore pursuing a social strategy of dissembling and manipulation over the use of force to get their needs met. If you can’t impose your will physically on half of the tribe, what does bare-bones factual objective “justice” matter? Even if you’re right, you can’t do anything about it. You need to recruit men to your side in order to exert force, albeit indirectly. You can do that by any number of means, including using sex and the emotional bonds of a sexual relationship with a man to entice him to do your bidding in the wider world. How many fights are started by the boyfriend/husband of a sobbing woman? In the main, the process is claiming a great (emotional) injury and suffering in order to get a man or men to set things right.

    If you have young daughters or nieces you observe this in process – they learn at very young ages that they can get what they want by manipulating people, particularly men. It’s cute because it’s so very obvious, and they haven’t acquired the guile yet to really disguise what they’re doing all of the way.

    The flip side of this is that women’s conflicts with each other are similarly veiled and their strategies are calculated to cause emotional suffering often by withdrawal of social status. Being outside or at the periphery of the tribe is probably much more terrifying for women because historically it probably signaled a slide towards deprivation and death.

    Now, take a step back and look at political conflicts in the United States. The female party and its constituent elements use claims of harm and suffering and resultant emotional manipulations very effectively – “Kids in Cages!” “Indelible in my Hippocampus!” “I cain’t breeve!” In these cases, the actual facts about what happened, and the law governing those facts and what would constitute justice fall by the wayside. The narratives are about sufferings that need redress. In an active, more aggressive approach, the female party engineers the ultimate sanction: if you oppose it, there is no real need that you be proven wrong according to the existing dictates of justice – you just get exiled from and shunned by the wider tribe.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)


    If you have young daughters or nieces you observe this in process – they learn at very young ages that they can get what they want by manipulating people, particularly men. It’s cute because it’s so very obvious, and they haven’t acquired the guile yet to really disguise what they’re doing all of the way.
     
    Now here is where culture comes in. The late actor Omar Sharif once described exactly what you are describing here. It is simply a universal truth. But he thought it was charming. He loved the fact that little girls got what they sought by manipulation, while boys stamp their foot and scream, "I want it!" Because he was an Arab. You seem to think there's something sinister about manipulation, because you are an Anglo-Saxon. Really, it's just one way to get what you want, and as you indicate, for females, the only way.

    Being outside or at the periphery of the tribe is probably much more terrifying for women because historically it probably signaled a slide towards deprivation and death.
     
    I have a crazy theory that American slavery began in the 17th Century Virginia colony as a humane way to care for outcaste part-African females and their children. In 1662 the Virginia House of Burgesses decreed that slavery was passed down from mother to child, not, father to child.

    Replies: @Alden, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

  199. @RonaldReagansLoveChildWithMadonna2
    @Jonathan Mason

    "The Theranos scheme seems to have been a scam from the get-go,"

    I'm fascinated by this question. Was she always just a con artist or did she genuinely think she could make it work if she just tried hard enough and put the right people together? A correllary is ... what about the ostensibly smart people who were working for her? Did they drink the Kool-Aid? Did they know it was a scam? Did they know it wouldn't work but figured they would just get paid while telling her it would work?

    At the risk of ruining my latest anonymous manifestation, I spent a day with someone who was working directly under her, to guide her through the regulatory process which they had originally, supposedly naively, ignored because no one had any experience in the medical device development process (which is much different from normal tech stuff). This person was either a pathological liar or was genuinely of the belief that the product could work.

    Another data point: I spent Thanksgiving with family who are actual bad-ass medical researchers and they seem to agree with the premise that anyone with any experience what-so-ever in this area would have seen it as bullshit from a mile away.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Jack D

    Holmes had very little scientific background. I don’t think she started out planning a fraud. At first she was a dreamer. And they made a certain amount of progress. The Theranos machine was capable of performing a certain (small) number of tests (although I think even these were unreliable and later voided).

    The original plan was the well known SV plan of “fake it ’till you make it” (although dummy software is not as dangerous as dummy blood tests). But at some point (we’ll see what the jury says) she crossed the line and started doing things like adding drug company logos to reports that she had written and telling investors that the military was buying their product when they weren’t. IF she could just get another \$X million from investors, they would be able to fix the problems and make the machines actually work, so the lies were in the service of a good cause. All the people in her lab who were telling her that it wasn’t working were just projecting negative energy and had to be replaced with more positive thinking people. It’s sort of like the classic embezzlement scheme where you think that you are just “borrowing” the money from the vault and will give it back later once you win at the casino. And at some point you realize that you are deep in the hole and it’s all going to blow up if you fess up so it’s better to keep digging and hope for a miracle.

  200. @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    Even if Chauvin was unaware at first, various people in the crowd, including EMTs, pointed it out to him and begged him to let go. At that point, something else happened - he wasn't going to let the crowd boss him around and lose face and perhaps lose control of the situation. He was in a hole and he violated the first rule of holes, which is to stop digging.

    All that being said, I don't think that Chauvin at any point ever had homicidal intent and I think that something like negligent homicide would have been the more appropriate verdict.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alden

    Even if Chauvin was unaware at first, various people in the crowd, including EMTs, pointed it out to him and begged him to let go. At that point, something else happened – he wasn’t going to let the crowd boss him around and lose face and perhaps lose control of the situation. He was in a hole and he violated the first rule of holes, which is to stop digging.

    I think what we’re not understanding is that in a dynamic situation under threat from the hostile assembled crowd he probably didn’t have a very good understanding of the time elapsing. Cops are taught not to lose control of the scene – that’s how really bad things happen, so I’d guess that it was top of mind for Chauvin as the senior officer on scene. He would have no reason to believe someone in plain clothes on scene among the hostile crowd purporting to be an EMT was, in fact, and EMT.

    I watched part of the trial via live stream, and my understanding of the prosecution’s theory of the case was that the battery was the “felony” in a felony murder charge (which is bizarre), and that the battery consisted not of Chauvin merely kneeling on Floyd’s neck and back (which was a hold taught to Minneapolis cops) but kneeling on his neck and back for the duration of time that he did. (the Prosecution’s expert parsed and testified that we didn’t train them to perform the hold for that long). Even then, the jury was instructed that it only had to find that this “battery” contributed to Floyd’s death among the other contributing causes of his heart arrest including preexisting cardiovascular conditions and the presence of intoxicants including methamphetamines and fentanyl in his system.

    This seems like successive acts of threading the legal needle to me, which in ordinary times and ordinary cases would not have been charged at all.

    All that being said, I don’t think that Chauvin at any point ever had homicidal intent and I think that something like negligent homicide would have been the more appropriate verdict.

    To conclude that Chauvin had homicidal intent, you’d have to believe that he conspired with three other officers, one rookie mixed race African American, one rookie white officer, and one Hmong officer – two of whom there is no evidence he had ever met prior, and that he intended to kill Floyd despite calling an ambulance for medical assistance.

    More likely, it was a bad mix of people and factors, including unknowns (the officers observed Floyd to be intoxicated and excited, but they didn’t know from what intoxicants), resulting in a death that is statistically inevitable in a nation of 330,000+ people given the number of police interactions per annum. An unfortunate accident, but the natives demanded that a white man be thrown into a volcano, and he was.

    • Agree: Jack D, ic1000
    • Replies: @ic1000
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    > An unfortunate accident, but the natives demanded that a white man be thrown into a volcano, and he was.

    Good synopsis of the case. Another ingredient of the volcano-throwing recipe was the judge's denial of Chauvin's efforts to exercise his pesky Constitutional right to a fair trial.


    Minnesota Rules of Criminal Procedure
    Rule 24.03 - Change of Venue
    Subdivision 1. Grounds. The case may be transferred to another county:
    a. If the court is satisfied that a fair and impartial trial cannot be had in the county in which the case is pending
     
    The New York-Washington Times-Post, NBC News, and the Minneapolis Star Tribune agreed that inflaming the jury pool was Not A Thing, that BLM/Antifa burn-it-down threats were okay, and that juror Brandon Mitchell lying to the court was actually look a squirrel.

    Nothing to see here. Just baizou being baizou.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

  201. @Paperback Writer
    @Boomthorkell


    "access to leverage"
     
    But there are so many ways to do that. When you're rich, you can bend people to your will. See "Chinatown." But the old bastard wasn't bonking his daughter in a place where people could photograph him!

    My own explanation is this. There is a class of people so removed from reality that they really thought they were immune. The power went to their heads and corrupted them absolutely.

    In Prince Andrew's case, it's because he was raised in a bubble and he really doesn't understand how the world works. In the case of Bill Clinton, it's because he's a sicko. And deep down, he wants to get caught.

    JMO.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Alexander Turok

    When you are in the presence of what would normally seem to be depraved conduct and the other people are not reacting like their hair is on fire, it quickly becomes normalized. One of the Maxwell witnesses testified that one day she was on Epstein’s plane and Epstein was having sex with another woman and everyone else was just going about their business, so she did too. Now this girl was a (supposedly naive) teenager and you would think that the adults would know better, but maybe not. “When in Rome, do as the Romans do.”

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D

    Only if you are inclined towards depravity. Such behavior may become superficially "normalized" but it is never moral.

    The young women who got dragged into this never became reconciled to their subjugation.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D


    When you are in the presence of what would normally seem to be depraved conduct and the other people are not reacting like their hair is on fire, it quickly becomes normalized.
     
    So says every low-level gang member, thug, or functionary in a totalitarian government.

    Good thing you weren't flying the helicopter over My Lai, and Hugh Thompson was.

    Or as my Dad said, "If your friends are jumping off the GW Bridge, do you follow them?"

    Replies: @Jack D

  202. test

    WordPress has this atrocious behavior of just VANISHING comments that get caught in a spam filter. Would it really be difficult to program the software to have the basic, minimum courtesy of INFORMING the submitter of such comments of their fate?

    EDIT: So, now we see that it could not have been my fictitious email address, and most likely was not my Tor node, that caused my previous submission to suffer its fate. What could it have been, then?

  203. Josh Duggar’s kiddie p0rn trial and the J6 “occupants” (note the description has changed as the regime narrative collapses) are trials that should be right-up-there, but we are all just burned out on the lack of progress.

    Dog-that-didn’t-bark trial might be the 10 CIA employees found with kiddie p0rn on their computers, protected by John Brennan and the regime.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Tom F.


    kiddie p0rn trial
     
    How much sense does the present legal approach to "child pornography" really make? The severe criminalization of mere viewing and possession of what are, no matter how offensive, still ultimately merely images; inanimate objects? Even in cases where there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the viewer of such material either had any part in its production, or poses any danger to anyone? Do we criminalize the mere posession and viewing of images of any other type of crimes?

    Is it the images themselves that we ought to be concerned with? Or is it the crimes and abuse that the images evidence*? The present laws effectively encourage the destruction of said evidence-- evidence that could, in many cases, prove invaluable in tracking and prosecuting the actual perpetrators of said crimes. Is that really what we really want to do?

    *In those cases, albeit many and likely even most, when the images-in-question actually do evidence abuse; another problem with the often extremely broad classification of "child pornography" or "child sex abuse material" (CSAM) is how subjective, arbitrary and capricious it can be. There have been cases in which utterly innocuous bath and beach photos have been flagged under the classification-in-question, resulting in perfectly innocent parents being harassed. The laws in many jurisdictions could be interpreted/applied, by someone of authority who were so-inclined, to cover even clothing advertisements commonly found in weekly circulars. One can even imagine much classical art, such as that of William Adolphe Bouguereau, and many Victorian works and artists, being classified as "CSAM" under the hysterical standards and sensibilities that frequently prevail in our present era.


    Dog-that-didn’t-bark trial might be the 10 CIA employees found with kiddie p0rn on their computers,
     
    It has been suggested, and even alleged, that at least some of those employed ostensibly to hunt/fight CSAM, in truth entered such fields for prurient motives; for the practically unlimited access such employment to such material that such employment grants. Hardly seems far-fetched, does it? Is it not well-known that some cops, for example, are drawn to the job for the opportunities it provides to benefit from blackmail, bribes and any number of other unlawful behaviors?
  204. @Known Fact
    @Matthew Kelly


    this god-forsaken hell hole of a city thanks to DiBlasio’s latest edict.
     
    Has anyone located Eric Adams and asked him about DeB's insane new proclamations -- destructive mandates that would supposedly take effect just five days before Adams takes over this smouldering hulk of a city?

    Replies: @Seneca44

    From what I’ve seen of Mr. Adams, his interests lie more in fly dressing (or is it dressin’ fly?) and spending late nights in the clubs. I get the impression that the mundane business of municipal governance is not utmost in his mind.

  205. @Rob
    @Chrisnonymous

    Considering how poor China was when I was born, it is astounding that they are ahead of us in real terms. American real estate might be more expensive, but the Chinese can build cities. Can the US still land on the moon? I realize that Bruce Charlton’s “can the US land men on the moon?” test is not really the best, as there is little that can be done with the Moon unless launch costs drop a lot. But the US is not working on transformative launch tech. No fifty-kilometer-high launch towers that would cut fuel to orbit by 30%, to take one example.

    In light of China’s rise and America's relative and absolute decline, what can we learn from the Chinese way that could be applied to America? China’s growth is often derided as “catch up” growth. But if catching up is so easy, why has a huge chunk of the world not done it? Hell, peoples are living in first-world countries that cannot manage to catch up.

    Just spitballing, here are two reasons America is falling behind. The diversity tax and the lawyer tax. Both are largely optional expenses on a societal scale. At an extreme, an American Cæsar could just hang judges until a somewhat-diminished Supreme Court ruled legal challenges could be streamlined.

    Diversity tax first. It sucks up a huge portion of federal and state budgets. The fact that the bureaucracy is chock full of dimmer people than would be there if we still had the civil service exam is a massive, unrecognized cost. There’s also the huge opportunity cost of having huge chunks of the government not merely worthless, but actively harmful. Has the Department of Education ever done something useful? Wasn’t a Bush going to eliminate it? Pretty sure he raised the budget.

    The cargo cult mentality of diversity hurts us in innumerable ways. A smart department of education would look for opportunities for efficiency. They do not have to have the same negative incentives that teachers, principals, and superintendents have. Wouldn’t it be great if we could achieve the same results in K-12 that we get today for 80% of the cost? For 50%? Is there anyone in DOE that thinks this way? A useful DOE would look at all the bureaucracy that big-city schools have, Bureaucrats whose jobs are, in practice, to make teaching harder, and push hard to have big (black) cities use the money to teach kids rather than provide patronage for the people who should be running small businesses, y’know, doing useful work, but are instead educrats who work hard to keep the worst kids in classes with everyone else, so the horrible kids are not “stigmatized” by assignment to prison-school. Īf funding for those school systems had to come from local taxes, there would be pressure to streamline, get educational results, or both. Instead, there is just a money training from the state and federal government. To paraphrase a commercial, the bureaucrats do their money dance, and money rains down for “education.”

    Then there are the direct diversity taxes that businesses have to pay. So far, companies have propitiated the diversity gods with white women. This has been, in some senses not terrible, but in other ways horribly destructive. On the not-terrible side, women are not dumber than men, at least in “verbal intelligence,” which is so much more than being good at reading. Where women’s interests and abilities do not lie, in tech and engineering, they have mostly been absent, up until recently. Terrible results include the collapse in the TFR of bright women, the idea that diversity is nearly costless, and enlarging the pool of AA-eligible people to include most of the country. It has driven a wedge between the political interests of white men and women.

    The non-white diversities are eventually going to catch wise, God bless their lower “verbal intelligence” that has kept them from figuring it out and demand that quotas, or goals, or targets for diversity be calculated with white women counting as “non-diverse.” This would be a great result for the sane part of the country, by shrinking the diverse coalition, and reasonable given the supposed reasons for affirmative action. Like every white man, every white woman had white patent(s) passing down whatever privilege, meaning culture, that they had. Once white men decided to stop discriminating against women, white women were very well-positioned to run the course of honors. Education, the highway to increased income, now that Asia does all the manufacturing, has always been extremely female-dominated on the contact-with-students end. For whatever reasons, girls get better evaluations from teachers, both officially in grades and on the “fuzzier” end of how teachers treat them, give recommendations, that sort of thing. At a very minimum, women learn the accents and manners of speaking that are necessary to climb in America as well as their brothers. This is not to claim that “white privilege” is the thing that BLMers say it is, certainly “white trash” girls do not learn the proper accents at home. But pro-man women surely do.

    Blacks must get tired of women and alien diversity taking up the set-asides. How can reasonable people nudge the democrats into pushing white women off the gravy chain?

    Perhaps, though, we do not have a diversity tax so much as a NAM tax? How much do we have to pay for extra security measures that China does not, because China would handle a domestic black population much more thoroughly than we have? So far at least. But cutting the diversity tax first seems like a less “crime against humanity” way to cut the cost than directly solving the root problem.

    Back to China, they don’t have to pay the diversity taxes we do, as they are in an integrationist phase, “encouraging” minority women to marry the excess Han men and putting uppity minority men in prison camps, which at the very least, must hurt their reproductive output. Their educational system can focus on educating kids, as they don’t bene over backward to hide the stupidity and savagery of Uighurs, as we must do with blacks.

    I’m pretty sure they don’t have the problems with an over-lawyered upper class that we do. Take nuclear power. China can just build plants. I would bet money that legal expenses would be a good third of the cost of building a new nuclear plant in the US. Including the cost of the delay in opening date, and lawyering is probably 2/3 of the cost of building. Maybe nuclear plants are at the extreme end of lawyer tax, but building most anything, certainly anything big and new has huge lawyer taxes. The lawyer tax has a chilling effect on innovation, even a school superintendent who wanted to cut some of the diversity tax would not be able to because of lawyer tax. No locality can have an “if you are illegally in the country, it is illegal for you to be in x county/city,” because of lawyer tax. I believe someplace in Kansas tried to prohibit illegals from renting in the county. They had to pay (tens of?) millions in lawyer tax. To add insult and injury to injury, they had to pay the lawyer tax for the GO-NGOs that sued them. When the person you are suing has to pay your legal expenses, you have every incentive to maximize your legal expenses.

    So, diversity tax and lawyer tax. What other “taxes” do Americans have to pay to do anything that the Chinese don’t?

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

    Wouldn’t it be great if [DOEd] could achieve the same results in K-12 that we get today for 80% of the cost?

    There’s no such thing as a useful bureaucracy. You already mentioned just a few, destructive elements of what DoEd is actually in business for.

    Home schools are private schools; done by age ~15. Compared to public schools (trending towards preK-14), per individual student, they achieve:

    • maximum learning results (the difference often substantial),
    • minimum amount of anti-socialization (zero bullying), at
    10% of the cost.

    a school superintendent who wanted to cut some of the diversity tax would not be able to because of lawyer tax.

    The lawyer tax is caused by too many laws; get the licensed lawyers OUT of the legislative branch. Education laws are a prime example. As for the EdD superintendents, they’re just local commissars — 90% of them left-wing — several bureaucratic layers below the top.

    If funding for those school systems had to come from local taxes ..

    No. Public education CANNOT be reformed (and certainly not by re-tweaking its funding formula). It needs to be abolished.

  206. @Achmed E. Newman
    I am happy to say that I would be following NONE of this, were it not for the few posts and many comments here in the iSteve world.

    This Smollett character is obviously just another whiny gay race hustler, Holmes has used her sex as an edge in the "TECH" business world to the chagrin of some morons who lost a few bucks, and, well, I've been hearing about this Maxwell for months from JohnnyWalker tweets, as a sequel to the Epstein saga, indeed a window into the massive corrupt and depraved world of the real players behind the scenes in American and other politics.

    Why should I give a crap? I know there are whiny gay race hustlers. They should be ignored. I know there are women who use their sex as an edge. I don't invest. Of course power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I can't take care of all those people myself, at least not at once.

    There is nothing new under the sun. Take care of things in your own world that are within your power. Throw out that TV, and get yourself off those tweet threads.

    .


    [EDIT:] I just saw J.R. Ewing's comment after I mashed SUBMIT. Agree!

    Replies: @Ian M.

    power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    I prefer:

    Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat.

  207. @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer

    When you are in the presence of what would normally seem to be depraved conduct and the other people are not reacting like their hair is on fire, it quickly becomes normalized. One of the Maxwell witnesses testified that one day she was on Epstein's plane and Epstein was having sex with another woman and everyone else was just going about their business, so she did too. Now this girl was a (supposedly naive) teenager and you would think that the adults would know better, but maybe not. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Paperback Writer

    Only if you are inclined towards depravity. Such behavior may become superficially “normalized” but it is never moral.

    The young women who got dragged into this never became reconciled to their subjugation.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer


    The young women who got dragged into this never became reconciled to their subjugation.
     
    Right. That's why they kept going back to Epstein's house and collecting more $ for "massages" over and over, due to their lack of reconciliation and then kept quiet for 20 years until a multimillion $ settlement was on offer. Then they realized how badly accepting all that money from EpsteinEptein's subjugation had damaged them.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Emil Nikola Richard, @ic1000, @David In TN, @Paperback Writer

  208. @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D

    Only if you are inclined towards depravity. Such behavior may become superficially "normalized" but it is never moral.

    The young women who got dragged into this never became reconciled to their subjugation.

    Replies: @Jack D

    The young women who got dragged into this never became reconciled to their subjugation.

    Right. That’s why they kept going back to Epstein’s house and collecting more \$ for “massages” over and over, due to their lack of reconciliation and then kept quiet for 20 years until a multimillion \$ settlement was on offer. Then they realized how badly accepting all that money from EpsteinEptein’s subjugation had damaged them.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Jack D

    'Right. That’s why they kept going back to Epstein’s house and collecting more $ for “massages” over and over, due to their lack of reconciliation and then kept quiet for 20 years until a multimillion $ settlement was on offer. Then they realized how badly accepting all that money from EpsteinEptein’s subjugation had damaged them.'

    These various aspects of the case aren't mutually exclusive. I may beat my wife for twenty years, and she may stick around -- but that doesn't mean it was good for her or that she enjoyed it. It doesn't even mean it was okay.

    The fact of the matter is that while I see self-righteous, categorical denunciation of all sex with underage girls as it it were something the speaker himself would never, ever engage in as sheer hypocrisy, what Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell did is right out. You do not find unhappy children, bribe them with candy, use them and pass them around, and then toss them aside.

    That's wrong -- it just is.

    Replies: @Danny Clover

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Jack D

    Is the illegal perversion of girls the crime which should be prosecuted?

    Or is it the illegal perversion of the United States government. Apparently that isn't even being investigated. Who told Acosta to back off is bigger than any other question and apparently nobody in power wants to know.

    https://observer.com/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-spy-intelligence-work/

    was the best thing I could find with a quick search. Doesn't anybody think it might be a good idea to put Acosta under oath?

    , @ic1000
    @Jack D

    To repeat something from way upthread: I'm not shocked, shocked that Epstein was a terrible person or that he did terrible things.

    Nor am I shocked at the way he gained the confidence of top academic scientists. Which was by showing that he had lots of money and was willing to share generously with people like them by funding their cutting edge projects. I've been around scientists and yeah, many are like that.

    Nor am I shocked at the way he worked his way into the life of the Prince Andrews. I haven't been around people like that, but it seems to fit.

    But I am unsettled by the story (lack of a story) of how he came to be a money manager -- this is the supposed success that was the source of all the money that opened up all of those other expensive doors.

    I've been around successful portfolio managers and institutional money people. No matter how charming, educated, beautiful, etc. -- a newbie doesn't parachute in to the top ranks of this subculture. It just doesn't happen, in my experience. That is, assuming that you didn't start out with family connections or a big savings account (inherited, your first startup's liquidity event, lottery jackpot, whatever). Which Epstein didn't have.

    People start small, establish themselves at that level, then slowly and painfully grow their reputations and their Assets Under Management. Obviously, talents vary -- stock-picking, luck, shrewd investment in promising technology, establishing a credible Ponzi scheme, as examples.

    Rinse and repeat, raise yourself to the top tier (where you and your partners are managing hundreds of millions of other people's dollars), all the while using Two-and-Twenty or similar to build your own fortune.

    But to the contrary: my impression is that Epstein the jetsetting multimillionaire emerged from the forehead of Zeus, fully formed. I'd appreciate a link that tells this part of his origin story, in a way that makes sense.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @David In TN
    @Jack D

    A lot of the victims did not "keep quiet for 20 years until a multimillion $ settlement was an offer."

    As soon as the Palm Beach Police opened an investigation of Epstein in 2005, the ones from Palm Beach came forward in large numbers to give their stories. And there was no prospect of a huge payoff at the time.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Paperback Writer

    , @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D

    It never ceases to amaze me how you manage to manipulate an argument out of nothing.

    I expressed surprise at why people who could get sex & power by other means got involved in this. I ascribed it to extreme corruption. You chimed in by saying that when you're surrounded by such behavior, it's "normalized."

    I responded by saying that it's never normalized to normal people. There's always an inner core that's incorruptible in a person who is fundamentally moral. Yes, you may be part of a gang and that gang does bad things and you seem to be going along, but inside you're resisting. And eventually you leave the gang.

    You manage to twist that into something incriminating about the dissenter who finally screws up the courage to say "no." For these girls, it's only about money.

    That's not true anyway. They had to go through hell in order to find a measure of justice, and even so, they have to put up with guys like you who heap abuse on them.

    Stay classy, Jack.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Alden

  209. @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer


    The young women who got dragged into this never became reconciled to their subjugation.
     
    Right. That's why they kept going back to Epstein's house and collecting more $ for "massages" over and over, due to their lack of reconciliation and then kept quiet for 20 years until a multimillion $ settlement was on offer. Then they realized how badly accepting all that money from EpsteinEptein's subjugation had damaged them.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Emil Nikola Richard, @ic1000, @David In TN, @Paperback Writer

    ‘Right. That’s why they kept going back to Epstein’s house and collecting more \$ for “massages” over and over, due to their lack of reconciliation and then kept quiet for 20 years until a multimillion \$ settlement was on offer. Then they realized how badly accepting all that money from EpsteinEptein’s subjugation had damaged them.’

    These various aspects of the case aren’t mutually exclusive. I may beat my wife for twenty years, and she may stick around — but that doesn’t mean it was good for her or that she enjoyed it. It doesn’t even mean it was okay.

    The fact of the matter is that while I see self-righteous, categorical denunciation of all sex with underage girls as it it were something the speaker himself would never, ever engage in as sheer hypocrisy, what Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell did is right out. You do not find unhappy children, bribe them with candy, use them and pass them around, and then toss them aside.

    That’s wrong — it just is.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Danny Clover
    @Colin Wright



    That’s why they kept going back to Epstein’s house and collecting more $ for “massages” over and over, due to their lack of reconciliation and then kept quiet for 20 years until a multimillion $ settlement was on offer.
     
    These various aspects of the case aren’t mutually exclusive.
     
    Not mutually exclusive, no. But is the scenario in-queston not suspect, even highly suspect? When an individual, after seemingly voluntarily engaging in an activity with/ maintaining a relationship with someone repeatedly, over an extended period of time, first comes forward to allege abuse (a) many years later, and (b) at a time when doing so offers the possibility of a lucrative financial, political or other advantage of self-interest?

    I may beat my wife for twenty years, and she may stick around — but that doesn’t mean it was good for her or that she enjoyed it. It doesn’t even mean it was okay.
     
    True. Obviously and undoubtedly. Nonetheless, if such a wife did stick around, and did not make any serious effort to free herself from the situation, and then...see above; it would (at least barring conclusive or overwhelming counter-evidence) make her claims suspect.

    (By the way, when did you stop beating your wife? :) )

    I see self-righteous, categorical denunciation of all sex with underage girls as it it were something the speaker himself would never, ever engage in as sheer hypocrisy,
     
    Or at least "...would never, ever at least desire or fantasize about...". The assertion, certainly, that only a pervert or a reprobate could even so much as find erotic appeal in a post-pubescent but still under-age-of-consent adolescent would seem entirely unfounded. Individuals who make such assertions probably tell us more about themselves in doing so than about anything else.

    You do not find unhappy children, bribe them with candy, use them and pass them around, and then toss them aside.
     
    Is it, though, accurate and honest to refer-to the alleged victims in the case-in-question as children? Weren't they visibly post-pubescent adolescents? (Not that using and discarding anyone in the manner you have described would be acceptable.)
  210. @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer


    The young women who got dragged into this never became reconciled to their subjugation.
     
    Right. That's why they kept going back to Epstein's house and collecting more $ for "massages" over and over, due to their lack of reconciliation and then kept quiet for 20 years until a multimillion $ settlement was on offer. Then they realized how badly accepting all that money from EpsteinEptein's subjugation had damaged them.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Emil Nikola Richard, @ic1000, @David In TN, @Paperback Writer

    Is the illegal perversion of girls the crime which should be prosecuted?

    Or is it the illegal perversion of the United States government. Apparently that isn’t even being investigated. Who told Acosta to back off is bigger than any other question and apparently nobody in power wants to know.

    https://observer.com/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-spy-intelligence-work/

    was the best thing I could find with a quick search. Doesn’t anybody think it might be a good idea to put Acosta under oath?

  211. @Jonathan Mason
    @RonaldReagansLoveChildWithMadonna2

    Again ridiculous.

    Did they really think that eventually Medicare was going to pay out billions of dollars a year to use their process without going through a lot of regulatory hoops?

    Did they really believe that they were on route to the Nobel prize for medicine?

    Replies: @Alden

    Yes they did. You’re very observant about America. But you have to spend an adult lifetime before you realize how ridiculous and truly criminal the American government at all levels is. Except the Post Office. It’s competent and functional. At least where I live.

    I don’t think there’s another country in the world where a military auditor discovered 2? 3? trillion dollars disappeared without a trace just a few days before it’s largest and most important city was attacked by 2 civilian airplanes hijacked by some Arabs. And the auditors offices in the Pentagon military headquarters just happened to be blown up less than an hour after the World Trade Center was blown up.

    And nothing was ever heard of the missing trillions ever again.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Alden


    Except the Post Office. It’s competent and functional. At least where I live.
     
    Alden, surely you meant that sarcastically.

    Replies: @Alden

  212. @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer


    The young women who got dragged into this never became reconciled to their subjugation.
     
    Right. That's why they kept going back to Epstein's house and collecting more $ for "massages" over and over, due to their lack of reconciliation and then kept quiet for 20 years until a multimillion $ settlement was on offer. Then they realized how badly accepting all that money from EpsteinEptein's subjugation had damaged them.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Emil Nikola Richard, @ic1000, @David In TN, @Paperback Writer

    To repeat something from way upthread: I’m not shocked, shocked that Epstein was a terrible person or that he did terrible things.

    Nor am I shocked at the way he gained the confidence of top academic scientists. Which was by showing that he had lots of money and was willing to share generously with people like them by funding their cutting edge projects. I’ve been around scientists and yeah, many are like that.

    Nor am I shocked at the way he worked his way into the life of the Prince Andrews. I haven’t been around people like that, but it seems to fit.

    But I am unsettled by the story (lack of a story) of how he came to be a money manager — this is the supposed success that was the source of all the money that opened up all of those other expensive doors.

    I’ve been around successful portfolio managers and institutional money people. No matter how charming, educated, beautiful, etc. — a newbie doesn’t parachute in to the top ranks of this subculture. It just doesn’t happen, in my experience. That is, assuming that you didn’t start out with family connections or a big savings account (inherited, your first startup’s liquidity event, lottery jackpot, whatever). Which Epstein didn’t have.

    People start small, establish themselves at that level, then slowly and painfully grow their reputations and their Assets Under Management. Obviously, talents vary — stock-picking, luck, shrewd investment in promising technology, establishing a credible Ponzi scheme, as examples.

    Rinse and repeat, raise yourself to the top tier (where you and your partners are managing hundreds of millions of other people’s dollars), all the while using Two-and-Twenty or similar to build your own fortune.

    But to the contrary: my impression is that Epstein the jetsetting multimillionaire emerged from the forehead of Zeus, fully formed. I’d appreciate a link that tells this part of his origin story, in a way that makes sense.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @ic1000

    If you read Epstein's wikipedia biography, he seems to do a lot of failing upward - he gets a job as a HS teacher (despite not being qualified) and gets fired from that and this leads to a job at Bear Stearns (despite not being qualified for that either). Etc. He seems to go thru a number of rounds of this (the luck of the Irish, I guess) until by 1987 he is working for a crook named Hoffenberg who is paying him $300k/year for "consulting". While this was nice money, it was obviously not private jet and private island money.

    His big break comes with Wexner:


    In 1986, Epstein met Wexner through their mutual acquaintances, insurance executive Robert Meister and his wife, in Palm Beach, Florida. A year later, Epstein became Wexner's financial adviser and served as his right-hand man. Within the year, Epstein had sorted out Wexner's entangled finances.[31][59] In July 1991, Wexner granted Epstein full power of attorney over his affairs. The power of attorney allowed Epstein to hire people, sign checks, buy and sell properties, borrow money, and do anything else of a legally binding nature on Wexner's behalf.[60]

    By 1995, Epstein was a director of the Wexner Foundation and Wexner Heritage Foundation. He was also the president of Wexner's Property, which developed part of the town of New Albany outside Columbus, Ohio, where Wexner lived. Epstein made millions in fees by managing Wexner's financial affairs.
     

    Whether he was also supplying Wexner with girls or whatever I cannot say. But on one level I can believe it - a clever and energetic and street smart guy like Epstein comes in and sorts out his (financial) affairs and makes him even richer and he is grateful and considers him to be a surrogate son (Wexner does not marry or have children until several years later) and rewards him accordingly. Wexner appears to be the key to Epsteins wealth.

    Replies: @ic1000

  213. From Reuters:

    NEW YORK, Dec 8 (Reuters) – A man testified at Ghislaine Maxwell’s criminal sex abuse trial on Wednesday that he drove teen girls to the Florida mansion of the late financier Jeffrey Epstein and saw them leave with hundred dollar bills.

    The man, who identified himself as Shawn, testified that he had begun dating a woman named Carolyn in Florida when he was 17 and she was 14….

    Shawn, now 38, recalled traveling to Epstein’s house with Carolyn for the first time with a girl named Virginia Roberts and Roberts’ boyfriend after Roberts told Carolyn the pair could make money by giving “a guy a massage.”

    “She was excited to make money,” said Shawn, who has not been accused of wrongdoing in the case.

    He added that he and Roberts’ boyfriend saw Roberts and Carolyn go into Epstein’s home, waited for them for more than an hour, and saw them leave the home with hundred dollar bills….

    Shawn’s account of that first trip largely matched up with Carolyn’s version. After that first trip, Shawn said he drove Carolyn to Epstein’s home every two weeks, and that Carolyn would leave with hundred dollar bills. They would use the cash to buy drugs, Shawn said, echoing his former girlfriend’s statement on the stand on Tuesday…

    He said he sometimes received calls from Epstein employees seeking to schedule a massage appointment for Epstein with Carolyn, including from someone with an English accent who did not give their name.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ghislaine-maxwells-trial-enters-eighth-day-testimony-fourth-victim-expected-soon-2021-12-08/

    “Girlfriend,” LOL. Imagine being the person who thinks the whole political system ought to be up-ended because of something that comes out of these characters’ mouths.

    They remind me of the martyrs of another political movement that rose in profile during the summer of 2020. The activists aren’t that dumb, if they had better martyrs, they’d be using them.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Alexander Turok

    The whole political system isn’t up ended because of this trial. It’s just standard pimping escort agency owner type charges. That’s all. It’s the money private island 71 million mansions that makes it newsworthy.

    Lots of pimps and prostitutes and escort services in America Every once in a while a pimp gets caught and charged. That’s all. Pimping of minors carries additional charges and penalties against the pimp. Which is why most pimps stay away from girls under 18. How hard is that? How hard is it to hire a bartender or liquor truck driver liquor store clerk whose 21 and over legally allowed to handle liquor?

    There are flourishing prostitution organizations all over the world. They are seldom bothered by law enforcement because the girls are over the age of consent whatever it may be in that jurisdiction.

    The first girl to come forward was 14 years old a high school freshman. A friend told her about a rich man in a huge luxurious mansion would she like to meet him. The girl went got scared and left. She and her step mother went to the police. That started the investigation. 14 years old.

    I know the MEN OF UNZ believe all girls on their 11 or 12th birthday are mindless bodies to be used by any man who wants them. But your favorite under age porn sites are not real life. The actresses aren’t under age either. 21 and over, slim and collagen injected made up and lighted up to look younger.

    That’s what started the investigation a 14 year old and step mom reported attempted sex assault to the police.

    Even before that the neighbors on Epstein’s street noticed heavy traffic of teen girls arriving at Epstein’s hoisin and leaving 40 minutes later several times a day. Even with large lots fences and hedges; neighbors notice what’s going on. The Palm Beach police set up periodic roadblocks and stopped plenty of young women. But everyone the police stopped had ID that showed they were over 18. But 18 or not, a steady parade of young women coming and going all day had the neighbors talking.

    Neighbors notice construction going on And often report not permit construction. Neighbors hear 15 sewing machines operating in the garage and report an illegal factory in the garage. Neighbors hear screaming and yelling and call that in to the police

    And neighbors on Epstein’s street notified the police of the heavy traffic of young women coming and going. Years before the first 14 year old and her mom reported an attempted sexual assault on the 14 year old at Epstein’s house.

    Think of it as a media creation like Jacob Blake. Small town Kenosha WI. Local scumbag Blake violates restraining order, steals car keys grabs kids who he is supposed to stay away from per the restraining order starts to drive away with the kids. Auto theft and robbery of the keys aa he took them from the woman violating a restraining order. Blake defies the police attacks them they shoot him.
    A standard Black squabble the police had to intervene in because of the existing restraining order. Nation wide coverage arson and riots ensue.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

  214. @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I’m short and thin and my DNA is 40 percent Scandinavian the rest British including Irish and a bit of German. Nordic Barbie doll, that’s me. At least when I was younger. Maybe now grandma Barbie. Even high prominent cheekbones. To the point I was sometimes asked if I were Swedish or Russian You can read just the articles here on UNZ about the Epstein operation. He demanded a certain type short thin fair skin fair hair looking young for their age or Nordic Barbie girls. One reason the henchmen or girls had to work so hard finding his type in Hispanic Miami and NYC where blue eyes and light skin and hair are rarer than in Spain

    I don’t hate men at all. I’m just appalled at the hatred of women displayed here on UNZ.
    Women talk about men all the time. But real actual men they know. And about what those men do. These generalized “ all women are “ meandering oby gyny porn and Fraudian psychology dissertations are just bizarre.

    Replies: @David In TN

    I’ve followed the Jeffrey Epstein Affair. When at his Palm Beach mansion, Epstein used a local high school which was mainly white working class. Epstein ordered his recruiters to “get me white girls only.”

    Epstein would keep the girls on a string by paying them to bring other girls to him. The standard price was \$200 for servicing him and \$200 more for bringing another girl. Once, a recruiter brought a black girl she knew to Epstein’s mansion. Epstein told the black girl to leave, don’t know if he paid her.

    Epstein liked them white, fair and petite, and preferably low income, which made them controllable. This type would be harder to find in NYC.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @David In TN


    preferably low income,
     
    Not so much low income as from dysfunctional homes (though the two go together often). The kind of home where maybe dad wasn't around at all and mom was more interested in booze or her boyfriends than she was in asking a lot of questions about how her daughter was spending her after school time or how she could suddenly afford fancy pocketbooks and nice clothes.

    And the girl was flattered by the attention (not to mention the $) because otherwise no one else showed her any affection. Apparently Epstein's recruiters (Maxwell and others) were very good at sniffing out this type of vulnerable girls, as all pimps are.

    Maxwell acted like a sort of "big sister" to these girls. And not just in sexual matters. She and Epstein would take a genuine interest, give them books to read, help them apply to colleges and help pay tuition, etc. Someone like Prince Andrew doesn't just want a cheap whore. He wants a courtesan - someone you can take to dinner and discuss the theater. And THEN you shtup her afterward.
  215. The Maxwell Trial Tracker twitter account has been suspended. This is the tweet that must have triggered that response. Looks like the computer harddrives with over 20,000 images stored had FBI evidence tags on them, indicating the FBI had looked at them and returned them. FBI having a rough 2021!
    https://twitter.com/EgoAndIts0wn/status/1468579478762934279/photo/1

    And for fun, here is the suspended Nancy Pelosi portfolio tracker account.
    https://twitter.com/LibertarianBlue/status/1468616160887328769/photo/1

  216. @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer


    The young women who got dragged into this never became reconciled to their subjugation.
     
    Right. That's why they kept going back to Epstein's house and collecting more $ for "massages" over and over, due to their lack of reconciliation and then kept quiet for 20 years until a multimillion $ settlement was on offer. Then they realized how badly accepting all that money from EpsteinEptein's subjugation had damaged them.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Emil Nikola Richard, @ic1000, @David In TN, @Paperback Writer

    A lot of the victims did not “keep quiet for 20 years until a multimillion \$ settlement was an offer.”

    As soon as the Palm Beach Police opened an investigation of Epstein in 2005, the ones from Palm Beach came forward in large numbers to give their stories. And there was no prospect of a huge payoff at the time.

    • Agree: Paperback Writer
    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    @David In TN


    As soon as the Palm Beach Police opened an investigation of Epstein in 2005, the ones from Palm Beach came forward in large numbers to give their stories. And there was no prospect of a huge payoff at the time.
     
    Epstein was a billionaire. Given that the prospect of civil suit victories (and the accompanying big payouts) isn't kiboshed by not guilty verdicts in criminal trials, I'd say the possibility of big money damages was always in the picture.

    Replies: @David In TN

    , @Paperback Writer
    @David In TN

    And why shouldn't it be? But that wasn't my point. I was expressing astonishment at how useless all of this is, and Jack was the one who twisted it into an attack on the victims as mercenary, as is his wont.

    I repeat my point: none of these guys needed an Epstein to get cute young chicks.

    There was something more than sex and power in this picture.

  217. @Scott in PA
    Seems Jussie is counting on one or two jurors to hang the jury. Not an unrealistic strategy given current conditions.

    Replies: @TWS, @Hibernian, @David In TN

    I suspect there are three or four O.J. jury types in Smollett’s jury. However, there is an old saying, “Never anticipate a jury.”

    If the jury hangs, the Left, MSM, etc will proclaim it a victory for Smollett.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @David In TN


    If the jury hangs, the Left, MSM, etc will proclaim it a victory for Smollett.
     
    And he won't be retried.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

  218. @Paperback Writer
    @Boomthorkell


    "access to leverage"
     
    But there are so many ways to do that. When you're rich, you can bend people to your will. See "Chinatown." But the old bastard wasn't bonking his daughter in a place where people could photograph him!

    My own explanation is this. There is a class of people so removed from reality that they really thought they were immune. The power went to their heads and corrupted them absolutely.

    In Prince Andrew's case, it's because he was raised in a bubble and he really doesn't understand how the world works. In the case of Bill Clinton, it's because he's a sicko. And deep down, he wants to get caught.

    JMO.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Alexander Turok

    The accusations against Prince Andrew were known about for many years and had no effect on him. That only changed when the media decided they wanted to cancel Alexander Acosta, Trump’s secretary of Labor, in 2019.

  219. @David In TN
    @Jack D

    A lot of the victims did not "keep quiet for 20 years until a multimillion $ settlement was an offer."

    As soon as the Palm Beach Police opened an investigation of Epstein in 2005, the ones from Palm Beach came forward in large numbers to give their stories. And there was no prospect of a huge payoff at the time.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Paperback Writer

    As soon as the Palm Beach Police opened an investigation of Epstein in 2005, the ones from Palm Beach came forward in large numbers to give their stories. And there was no prospect of a huge payoff at the time.

    Epstein was a billionaire. Given that the prospect of civil suit victories (and the accompanying big payouts) isn’t kiboshed by not guilty verdicts in criminal trials, I’d say the possibility of big money damages was always in the picture.

    • Replies: @David In TN
    @Johann Ricke

    The possibility of big money damages may have been in the picture, but Epstein's lawyers kept dragging it out.

    My impression is the victims (or accusers if you prefer) wanted Epstein sent to prison more than money.

    Early on the Palm Beach Police did a garbage pull outside Epstein's mansion They found names, dates, times, telephone numbers, etc which ID'd the girls giving the "massage." In this way it was proven Epstein had 14-16 year old girls at his residence.

    Yes, in a criminal trial, the defense would have depicted the girls as gold-diggers in the hope jurors would dislike the girls more than Epstein. This is a reason the South Florida U.S. Attorney's office gave Epstein the "sweetheart deal." They thought it would be tough case to try.

    The Palm Beach County District Attorney, Barry Krischer, wouldn't file a case at all, apparently because Epstein was a Good Democrat. Along with persuasion from one of Epstein's lawyers, Alan Dershowitz.

    The Palm Beach Police then went to the U.S. Attorney. The case would have been easier to prove in state court.

  220. @ic1000
    @Jack D

    To repeat something from way upthread: I'm not shocked, shocked that Epstein was a terrible person or that he did terrible things.

    Nor am I shocked at the way he gained the confidence of top academic scientists. Which was by showing that he had lots of money and was willing to share generously with people like them by funding their cutting edge projects. I've been around scientists and yeah, many are like that.

    Nor am I shocked at the way he worked his way into the life of the Prince Andrews. I haven't been around people like that, but it seems to fit.

    But I am unsettled by the story (lack of a story) of how he came to be a money manager -- this is the supposed success that was the source of all the money that opened up all of those other expensive doors.

    I've been around successful portfolio managers and institutional money people. No matter how charming, educated, beautiful, etc. -- a newbie doesn't parachute in to the top ranks of this subculture. It just doesn't happen, in my experience. That is, assuming that you didn't start out with family connections or a big savings account (inherited, your first startup's liquidity event, lottery jackpot, whatever). Which Epstein didn't have.

    People start small, establish themselves at that level, then slowly and painfully grow their reputations and their Assets Under Management. Obviously, talents vary -- stock-picking, luck, shrewd investment in promising technology, establishing a credible Ponzi scheme, as examples.

    Rinse and repeat, raise yourself to the top tier (where you and your partners are managing hundreds of millions of other people's dollars), all the while using Two-and-Twenty or similar to build your own fortune.

    But to the contrary: my impression is that Epstein the jetsetting multimillionaire emerged from the forehead of Zeus, fully formed. I'd appreciate a link that tells this part of his origin story, in a way that makes sense.

    Replies: @Jack D

    If you read Epstein’s wikipedia biography, he seems to do a lot of failing upward – he gets a job as a HS teacher (despite not being qualified) and gets fired from that and this leads to a job at Bear Stearns (despite not being qualified for that either). Etc. He seems to go thru a number of rounds of this (the luck of the Irish, I guess) until by 1987 he is working for a crook named Hoffenberg who is paying him \$300k/year for “consulting”. While this was nice money, it was obviously not private jet and private island money.

    His big break comes with Wexner:

    In 1986, Epstein met Wexner through their mutual acquaintances, insurance executive Robert Meister and his wife, in Palm Beach, Florida. A year later, Epstein became Wexner’s financial adviser and served as his right-hand man. Within the year, Epstein had sorted out Wexner’s entangled finances.[31][59] In July 1991, Wexner granted Epstein full power of attorney over his affairs. The power of attorney allowed Epstein to hire people, sign checks, buy and sell properties, borrow money, and do anything else of a legally binding nature on Wexner’s behalf.[60]

    By 1995, Epstein was a director of the Wexner Foundation and Wexner Heritage Foundation. He was also the president of Wexner’s Property, which developed part of the town of New Albany outside Columbus, Ohio, where Wexner lived. Epstein made millions in fees by managing Wexner’s financial affairs.

    Whether he was also supplying Wexner with girls or whatever I cannot say. But on one level I can believe it – a clever and energetic and street smart guy like Epstein comes in and sorts out his (financial) affairs and makes him even richer and he is grateful and considers him to be a surrogate son (Wexner does not marry or have children until several years later) and rewards him accordingly. Wexner appears to be the key to Epsteins wealth.

    • Disagree: ic1000
    • Replies: @ic1000
    @Jack D

    Jack D, I generally appreciate your comments at iSteve.

    This morning I finally got around to Googling "Epstein wealth." After reading a few somewhat-investigative articles, I returned to this thread.

    The comment of yours that I'm belatedly replying to would merit a shrug if it was contributed by a below-median commenter. But you're a smart guy and a well-read guy. Why go to the trouble of writing something that is deeply disingenuous and misleading?

    Example. Yes (duh), "Wexner appears to be the key to Epstein's wealth." From Mark Hodge's article in The Sun -- yes, you're actually being outshone by that The Sun:


    [The Wexner-Epstein] relationship was described as “weird” by one Wall Street insider, who told New York Magazine: “It’s just not typical for someone of such enormous wealth to all of a sudden give his money to some guy most people have never heard of.”

    ...Their relationship is said to have ended around 2007 and - following the sex trafficker's death last year - Wexner admitted Epstein had “misappropriated” $46m of his fortune. Wexner reportedly never took legal action against Jeffrey Epstein.
     
    So this shrewd and successful billionaire meets a guy that the slightest due diligence will reveal as untrustworthy. He likes him! Gives him tens of millions in Manhattan real estate gift, and an indeterminate sum in fiduciary fees along with carte blanche for managing his fortune. When the house of cards collapses, Wexner allows that, yeah, in retrospect, Epstein misappropriated [sic] at least $46 million more.

    Madoff's clients' greed and gullibility appear to be the keys to Madoff making his millions. What, exactly, were Wexner's motives? I can think of a few, but none are of the Madoff nothing-to-see-here variety.

    Of course, this is only one of the many highly queer aspects of the Epstein saga -- including, now, Comey fille's intense uninterest in whatever a curious investigator might prise out of Ms. Maxwell. It has become nigh-impossible to discredit any particular unhinged Conspiracy Theory, except to credit another one in its stead.
  221. @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    Even if Chauvin was unaware at first, various people in the crowd, including EMTs, pointed it out to him and begged him to let go. At that point, something else happened - he wasn't going to let the crowd boss him around and lose face and perhaps lose control of the situation. He was in a hole and he violated the first rule of holes, which is to stop digging.

    All that being said, I don't think that Chauvin at any point ever had homicidal intent and I think that something like negligent homicide would have been the more appropriate verdict.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alden

    I don’t mean to be argumentative But career criminal St George , on parole from another state; brought to Minneapolis through a faith based black church government funded program died of a self administered Fentanyl overdose. Coroner found whole not even beginning to dissolve Fentanyl pills in this mouth throat and rectum.

    Government funded means the black activist church that brought a career criminal to Minneapolis was funded by you, me and every other White taxpayer in the country.

    Floyd his baby mommas and relatives should never have been born to be a useless destructive burden on Whites.

  222. @David In TN
    @Alden

    I've followed the Jeffrey Epstein Affair. When at his Palm Beach mansion, Epstein used a local high school which was mainly white working class. Epstein ordered his recruiters to "get me white girls only."

    Epstein would keep the girls on a string by paying them to bring other girls to him. The standard price was $200 for servicing him and $200 more for bringing another girl. Once, a recruiter brought a black girl she knew to Epstein's mansion. Epstein told the black girl to leave, don't know if he paid her.

    Epstein liked them white, fair and petite, and preferably low income, which made them controllable. This type would be harder to find in NYC.

    Replies: @Jack D

    preferably low income,

    Not so much low income as from dysfunctional homes (though the two go together often). The kind of home where maybe dad wasn’t around at all and mom was more interested in booze or her boyfriends than she was in asking a lot of questions about how her daughter was spending her after school time or how she could suddenly afford fancy pocketbooks and nice clothes.

    And the girl was flattered by the attention (not to mention the \$) because otherwise no one else showed her any affection. Apparently Epstein’s recruiters (Maxwell and others) were very good at sniffing out this type of vulnerable girls, as all pimps are.

    Maxwell acted like a sort of “big sister” to these girls. And not just in sexual matters. She and Epstein would take a genuine interest, give them books to read, help them apply to colleges and help pay tuition, etc. Someone like Prince Andrew doesn’t just want a cheap whore. He wants a courtesan – someone you can take to dinner and discuss the theater. And THEN you shtup her afterward.

  223. @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer


    The young women who got dragged into this never became reconciled to their subjugation.
     
    Right. That's why they kept going back to Epstein's house and collecting more $ for "massages" over and over, due to their lack of reconciliation and then kept quiet for 20 years until a multimillion $ settlement was on offer. Then they realized how badly accepting all that money from EpsteinEptein's subjugation had damaged them.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Emil Nikola Richard, @ic1000, @David In TN, @Paperback Writer

    It never ceases to amaze me how you manage to manipulate an argument out of nothing.

    I expressed surprise at why people who could get sex & power by other means got involved in this. I ascribed it to extreme corruption. You chimed in by saying that when you’re surrounded by such behavior, it’s “normalized.”

    I responded by saying that it’s never normalized to normal people. There’s always an inner core that’s incorruptible in a person who is fundamentally moral. Yes, you may be part of a gang and that gang does bad things and you seem to be going along, but inside you’re resisting. And eventually you leave the gang.

    You manage to twist that into something incriminating about the dissenter who finally screws up the courage to say “no.” For these girls, it’s only about money.

    That’s not true anyway. They had to go through hell in order to find a measure of justice, and even so, they have to put up with guys like you who heap abuse on them.

    Stay classy, Jack.

    • Agree: TWS
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Paperback Writer

    The defiling of shiksa princesses (too young to be goddesses) doesn't quite impinge on Jackie Boy's conscience.

    Replies: @Danny Clover

    , @Alden
    @Paperback Writer

    Hmmmm Women talk you know. I have a friend whose Dad molested her starting when she was about two years old. Or as far back as she could remember. She had no idea it was not part of normal family life. When she was 9 she and a friend were complaining together about parents rules chores bedtime etc. she said to her friend “ don’t you hate it when your Dad makes you.....,”. and the friend didn’t know what she was talking about.

    Her Dad was an inspector with the FAA a high ranking manager of the inspectors with an aeronautical engineering degree. From generations of a solid professional middle class family. Not poor White trash Dad did her brother too. Mom committed suicide when she was 13 brother 11. About a year after my friend reported it.

    Dad was never punished. No police or other investigation. Never touched her or brother again after she stood up to him. She grabbed an Air Force Officer from the nearby Air Force base as soon as she finished high school and left home.

    MEN OF UNZ MEN OF UNZ

    I can’t decide if you are incredibly naive or child molesters or at least under age porn addicts.

    There’s also the age factor. Back when her father was molesting her, my friend hated it and him. But had no idea it wasn’t normal or that there were any laws that forbade it. She’s about the age of most of the aged codgers of UNZ Perhaps that explains the MEN OF UNZ defense of Epstein Maxwell and denunciations of the girls.

    Or else you all wish you were Epstein with a harem of 14 year old underdeveloped for their age Nordic barbies to play with.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

  224. @David In TN
    @Jack D

    A lot of the victims did not "keep quiet for 20 years until a multimillion $ settlement was an offer."

    As soon as the Palm Beach Police opened an investigation of Epstein in 2005, the ones from Palm Beach came forward in large numbers to give their stories. And there was no prospect of a huge payoff at the time.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Paperback Writer

    And why shouldn’t it be? But that wasn’t my point. I was expressing astonishment at how useless all of this is, and Jack was the one who twisted it into an attack on the victims as mercenary, as is his wont.

    I repeat my point: none of these guys needed an Epstein to get cute young chicks.

    There was something more than sex and power in this picture.

  225. @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer

    When you are in the presence of what would normally seem to be depraved conduct and the other people are not reacting like their hair is on fire, it quickly becomes normalized. One of the Maxwell witnesses testified that one day she was on Epstein's plane and Epstein was having sex with another woman and everyone else was just going about their business, so she did too. Now this girl was a (supposedly naive) teenager and you would think that the adults would know better, but maybe not. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Paperback Writer

    When you are in the presence of what would normally seem to be depraved conduct and the other people are not reacting like their hair is on fire, it quickly becomes normalized.

    So says every low-level gang member, thug, or functionary in a totalitarian government.

    Good thing you weren’t flying the helicopter over My Lai, and Hugh Thompson was.

    Or as my Dad said, “If your friends are jumping off the GW Bridge, do you follow them?”

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer

    You are making a common error here - you are confusing my description of the way things really ARE with the way things OUGHT TO BE. We all OUGHT TO BE as brave as Alexei Navalny or as Hugh Thompson , but most of us can't meet those standards. Most people just want a quiet life.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

  226. @Johann Ricke
    @David In TN


    As soon as the Palm Beach Police opened an investigation of Epstein in 2005, the ones from Palm Beach came forward in large numbers to give their stories. And there was no prospect of a huge payoff at the time.
     
    Epstein was a billionaire. Given that the prospect of civil suit victories (and the accompanying big payouts) isn't kiboshed by not guilty verdicts in criminal trials, I'd say the possibility of big money damages was always in the picture.

    Replies: @David In TN

    The possibility of big money damages may have been in the picture, but Epstein’s lawyers kept dragging it out.

    My impression is the victims (or accusers if you prefer) wanted Epstein sent to prison more than money.

    Early on the Palm Beach Police did a garbage pull outside Epstein’s mansion They found names, dates, times, telephone numbers, etc which ID’d the girls giving the “massage.” In this way it was proven Epstein had 14-16 year old girls at his residence.

    Yes, in a criminal trial, the defense would have depicted the girls as gold-diggers in the hope jurors would dislike the girls more than Epstein. This is a reason the South Florida U.S. Attorney’s office gave Epstein the “sweetheart deal.” They thought it would be tough case to try.

    The Palm Beach County District Attorney, Barry Krischer, wouldn’t file a case at all, apparently because Epstein was a Good Democrat. Along with persuasion from one of Epstein’s lawyers, Alan Dershowitz.

    The Palm Beach Police then went to the U.S. Attorney. The case would have been easier to prove in state court.

  227. Well folks, the Maxwell/Epstein part of this thread certainly has garnered a large number of comments and discussions, thus demonstrating once again that few things draw people in as much as prurience.

    Prurience can be used to obscure and distract. Seriously, do y’all really think this was just a bunch of rich people getting off? That seems to be where your focus has been directed, the way a magician distracts his audience.

    And another thing, if you really are this fascinated by sex you find a bit weird, then leave alone those of us whose libertine attitudes you hypocritically scream are wrong or unnatural. Most of you have little or no experience in these matters.

    Most of the girls did it because they wanted to* — and they probably aren’t even the real story.

    *Not that they should have or that the “adults” should not be punished for exploiting them, you understand. And there are those triplets we keep hearing about…

    I congratulate Steve for successfully reeling us all in, and I declare what is now obvious: Based on the response here, the Maxwell/(Epstein, et al.) trial is the current “Trial of the Century.”

  228. @Alexander Turok
    From Reuters:

    NEW YORK, Dec 8 (Reuters) - A man testified at Ghislaine Maxwell's criminal sex abuse trial on Wednesday that he drove teen girls to the Florida mansion of the late financier Jeffrey Epstein and saw them leave with hundred dollar bills.

    The man, who identified himself as Shawn, testified that he had begun dating a woman named Carolyn in Florida when he was 17 and she was 14....

    Shawn, now 38, recalled traveling to Epstein's house with Carolyn for the first time with a girl named Virginia Roberts and Roberts' boyfriend after Roberts told Carolyn the pair could make money by giving "a guy a massage."

    "She was excited to make money," said Shawn, who has not been accused of wrongdoing in the case.

    He added that he and Roberts' boyfriend saw Roberts and Carolyn go into Epstein's home, waited for them for more than an hour, and saw them leave the home with hundred dollar bills....

    Shawn's account of that first trip largely matched up with Carolyn's version. After that first trip, Shawn said he drove Carolyn to Epstein's home every two weeks, and that Carolyn would leave with hundred dollar bills. They would use the cash to buy drugs, Shawn said, echoing his former girlfriend's statement on the stand on Tuesday...

    He said he sometimes received calls from Epstein employees seeking to schedule a massage appointment for Epstein with Carolyn, including from someone with an English accent who did not give their name.
     
    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ghislaine-maxwells-trial-enters-eighth-day-testimony-fourth-victim-expected-soon-2021-12-08/

    "Girlfriend," LOL. Imagine being the person who thinks the whole political system ought to be up-ended because of something that comes out of these characters' mouths.

    They remind me of the martyrs of another political movement that rose in profile during the summer of 2020. The activists aren't that dumb, if they had better martyrs, they'd be using them.

    Replies: @Alden

    The whole political system isn’t up ended because of this trial. It’s just standard pimping escort agency owner type charges. That’s all. It’s the money private island 71 million mansions that makes it newsworthy.

    Lots of pimps and prostitutes and escort services in America Every once in a while a pimp gets caught and charged. That’s all. Pimping of minors carries additional charges and penalties against the pimp. Which is why most pimps stay away from girls under 18. How hard is that? How hard is it to hire a bartender or liquor truck driver liquor store clerk whose 21 and over legally allowed to handle liquor?

    There are flourishing prostitution organizations all over the world. They are seldom bothered by law enforcement because the girls are over the age of consent whatever it may be in that jurisdiction.

    The first girl to come forward was 14 years old a high school freshman. A friend told her about a rich man in a huge luxurious mansion would she like to meet him. The girl went got scared and left. She and her step mother went to the police. That started the investigation. 14 years old.

    I know the MEN OF UNZ believe all girls on their 11 or 12th birthday are mindless bodies to be used by any man who wants them. But your favorite under age porn sites are not real life. The actresses aren’t under age either. 21 and over, slim and collagen injected made up and lighted up to look younger.

    That’s what started the investigation a 14 year old and step mom reported attempted sex assault to the police.

    Even before that the neighbors on Epstein’s street noticed heavy traffic of teen girls arriving at Epstein’s hoisin and leaving 40 minutes later several times a day. Even with large lots fences and hedges; neighbors notice what’s going on. The Palm Beach police set up periodic roadblocks and stopped plenty of young women. But everyone the police stopped had ID that showed they were over 18. But 18 or not, a steady parade of young women coming and going all day had the neighbors talking.

    Neighbors notice construction going on And often report not permit construction. Neighbors hear 15 sewing machines operating in the garage and report an illegal factory in the garage. Neighbors hear screaming and yelling and call that in to the police

    And neighbors on Epstein’s street notified the police of the heavy traffic of young women coming and going. Years before the first 14 year old and her mom reported an attempted sexual assault on the 14 year old at Epstein’s house.

    Think of it as a media creation like Jacob Blake. Small town Kenosha WI. Local scumbag Blake violates restraining order, steals car keys grabs kids who he is supposed to stay away from per the restraining order starts to drive away with the kids. Auto theft and robbery of the keys aa he took them from the woman violating a restraining order. Blake defies the police attacks them they shoot him.
    A standard Black squabble the police had to intervene in because of the existing restraining order. Nation wide coverage arson and riots ensue.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Alden


    I know the MEN OF UNZ believe all girls on their 11 or 12th birthday are mindless bodies to be used by any man who wants them.
     
    Just curious: Can you provide a quote from any one of your "MEN OF UNZ" to that effect?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Alden

  229. @Bardon Kaldian
    @YetAnotherAnon

    It wasn't just an entertainment; it was, say, his "passion", his big dream fantasy. Central to his life.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    You misunderstand – to attract people (aka targets) an agent must be good company, people must enjoy being with him. Judging by the stellar list of visitors, his island and his NYC apartment were popular places. Who doesn’t like being surrounded by a mix of powerful or famous people (and you’re included! or you wouldn’t be there!) and pretty young girls?

    And what male finding himself in bed with one of the girls is going to think “has she been told to do this, is she acting under orders?”. He’ll just put it down to his personality and the wonderfully free atmosphere at good old Jeffrey’s parties.

    As I said, he seems to be one of those fortunate people who are able to turn a hobby or passion into a career. And Ghislaine isn’t that unusual as a pimpette – a fair few women “swingers” enjoy finding girls for their men. They seem to be into that kind of thing but with new, fresh girls.

    What is odd is that AFAIK, no team of FBI inspectors has gone through the island with a tooth comb (indeed it’s all been demolished), as they would for a reported noose at a NASCAR race, no band of forensic investigators is going through the flight logs, interviewing anyone and everyone who’s set foot on it, and seeing what kind of picture emerges.

    It’s like they don’t want to know.

  230. @Pericles
    @Bill Jones

    Interesting, that's the first I've heard about the source of all those mysterious pallets of convenient bricks. Any pointers to articles or such?

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    As several people here note, you’re never up to date on US news until you’ve read the UK’s Daily Mail.

    start here

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8377069/Bricks-randomly-appear-protests-sparking-theories-planted-stoke-violence.html

    Just try a search (And I do hope you don’t use google, try https://swisscows.com/) Trucks, bricks, riots.

  231. @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D


    When you are in the presence of what would normally seem to be depraved conduct and the other people are not reacting like their hair is on fire, it quickly becomes normalized.
     
    So says every low-level gang member, thug, or functionary in a totalitarian government.

    Good thing you weren't flying the helicopter over My Lai, and Hugh Thompson was.

    Or as my Dad said, "If your friends are jumping off the GW Bridge, do you follow them?"

    Replies: @Jack D

    You are making a common error here – you are confusing my description of the way things really ARE with the way things OUGHT TO BE. We all OUGHT TO BE as brave as Alexei Navalny or as Hugh Thompson , but most of us can’t meet those standards. Most people just want a quiet life.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D

    How many times do I have to repeat what YOU said: perverse behavior becomes "normalized." You, not I, generalized that to the entirety of humankind. Go back to your comment where you used the phrase "normalized."

    And again, I was pointing out that this behavior is only "normalized" among the already perverse, but for whatever reason, you can't see that. Or maybe you do and you're just having fun arguing.

    But actually, in your crazy way, you helped me to a conclusion: the group around Epstein wasn't in it for the sex or the power. But I'm not going to say what my conclusion is because I'm not getting paid to spill my good ideas here.

  232. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D


    Remember that this is the same FBI that denied for decades that the Mafia even existed.
     
    Are you sure you have this right? My recollection is that the Feds were trying to prove the existence of the Mafia/Mob/La Cosa Nostra as an organization for decades but none of the member co-conspirators would talk and explicitly confirm its existence due to the strong oath of omerta. It wasn't until Valachi and then subsequent informant-witnesses that the existence of a definite criminal organization could be proven.

    Now, of course, any two people to the right of Mitt Romney are a "white supremacist organization" engaged in some sort of incipient "right wing domestic terror" once they talk politics together. And the fully politicized FBI denies the existence of Antifa in conformity with Democratic party political demands despite the clear outlines of an organization (they even have uniforms of a sort, and webs of funding and logistical support, which is not necessarily to say that they commit defined 'predicate acts' under RICO).

    Replies: @Jack D, @Sam Malone, @Paperback Writer, @Paperback Writer

    I don’t think it is right.

    https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/organized-crime/history-of-la-cosa-nostra

    But other things came up such as the very real threat of Communist infiltration in the US from the 30s to the 50s, as Whittaker Chambers and the Venona Papers proved. You can only fight so many threats.

    Also, I’m no expert on the Mafia but it might be possible that between Prohibition and the rise of heroin, there was WW2, they weren’t that dangerous, thus didn’t merit much attention. But the FBI knew of La Cosa Nostra during Prohibition.

  233. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @PhysicistDave


    Perhaps the difference is merely due to the fact that women tend to be moms (don’t we want moms to act this way?) and that men tend to spend much of their time outside the family in the larger society. Or perhaps there is indeed some genetic basis.
     
    I think your overall thesis describes reality but I don't think this ethos is necessarily formed by women being mothers, but rather women being the physically weaker sex and therefore pursuing a social strategy of dissembling and manipulation over the use of force to get their needs met. If you can't impose your will physically on half of the tribe, what does bare-bones factual objective "justice" matter? Even if you're right, you can't do anything about it. You need to recruit men to your side in order to exert force, albeit indirectly. You can do that by any number of means, including using sex and the emotional bonds of a sexual relationship with a man to entice him to do your bidding in the wider world. How many fights are started by the boyfriend/husband of a sobbing woman? In the main, the process is claiming a great (emotional) injury and suffering in order to get a man or men to set things right.

    If you have young daughters or nieces you observe this in process - they learn at very young ages that they can get what they want by manipulating people, particularly men. It's cute because it's so very obvious, and they haven't acquired the guile yet to really disguise what they're doing all of the way.

    The flip side of this is that women's conflicts with each other are similarly veiled and their strategies are calculated to cause emotional suffering often by withdrawal of social status. Being outside or at the periphery of the tribe is probably much more terrifying for women because historically it probably signaled a slide towards deprivation and death.

    Now, take a step back and look at political conflicts in the United States. The female party and its constituent elements use claims of harm and suffering and resultant emotional manipulations very effectively - "Kids in Cages!" "Indelible in my Hippocampus!" "I cain't breeve!" In these cases, the actual facts about what happened, and the law governing those facts and what would constitute justice fall by the wayside. The narratives are about sufferings that need redress. In an active, more aggressive approach, the female party engineers the ultimate sanction: if you oppose it, there is no real need that you be proven wrong according to the existing dictates of justice - you just get exiled from and shunned by the wider tribe.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    If you have young daughters or nieces you observe this in process – they learn at very young ages that they can get what they want by manipulating people, particularly men. It’s cute because it’s so very obvious, and they haven’t acquired the guile yet to really disguise what they’re doing all of the way.

    Now here is where culture comes in. The late actor Omar Sharif once described exactly what you are describing here. It is simply a universal truth. But he thought it was charming. He loved the fact that little girls got what they sought by manipulation, while boys stamp their foot and scream, “I want it!” Because he was an Arab. You seem to think there’s something sinister about manipulation, because you are an Anglo-Saxon. Really, it’s just one way to get what you want, and as you indicate, for females, the only way.

    Being outside or at the periphery of the tribe is probably much more terrifying for women because historically it probably signaled a slide towards deprivation and death.

    I have a crazy theory that American slavery began in the 17th Century Virginia colony as a humane way to care for outcaste part-African females and their children. In 1662 the Virginia House of Burgesses decreed that slavery was passed down from mother to child, not, father to child.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Paperback Writer

    It’s a good theory. Never thought of that. Now I would like to quote the eternal question of UNZ commenters.

    “ Where were the fathers?”

    It meant the moms and kids stayed on the fathers farm or home and he had to support them and train the kids for useful work.

    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Paperback Writer


    Now here is where culture comes in. The late actor Omar Sharif once described exactly what you are describing here. It is simply a universal truth. But he thought it was charming. He loved the fact that little girls got what they sought by manipulation, while boys stamp their foot and scream, “I want it!” Because he was an Arab. You seem to think there’s something sinister about manipulation, because you are an Anglo-Saxon. Really, it’s just one way to get what you want, and as you indicate, for females, the only way.
     
    Perhaps, but Arabs don't let women engage in much of the important decision-making in their societies, so the stakes of giving in to manipulations are much, much diminished. At that point, they're just indulgences, and it's all quite endearing.
  234. @Alden
    @Jonathan Mason

    Yes they did. You’re very observant about America. But you have to spend an adult lifetime before you realize how ridiculous and truly criminal the American government at all levels is. Except the Post Office. It’s competent and functional. At least where I live.

    I don’t think there’s another country in the world where a military auditor discovered 2? 3? trillion dollars disappeared without a trace just a few days before it’s largest and most important city was attacked by 2 civilian airplanes hijacked by some Arabs. And the auditors offices in the Pentagon military headquarters just happened to be blown up less than an hour after the World Trade Center was blown up.

    And nothing was ever heard of the missing trillions ever again.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    Except the Post Office. It’s competent and functional. At least where I live.

    Alden, surely you meant that sarcastically.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Hibernian

    It’s really fine in the parts of Los Angeles and the Bay Area where I live. Really.

  235. @David In TN
    @Scott in PA

    I suspect there are three or four O.J. jury types in Smollett's jury. However, there is an old saying, "Never anticipate a jury."

    If the jury hangs, the Left, MSM, etc will proclaim it a victory for Smollett.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    If the jury hangs, the Left, MSM, etc will proclaim it a victory for Smollett.

    And he won’t be retried.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Hibernian

    Gonna go out on a limb here & predict he'll be convicted, and it won't take long. Willing to put up with abuse if I'm wrong.

    But things don't look great for poor Kim Potter. The judge is a real piece of work, so I've heard.

  236. @Hibernian
    @Alden


    Except the Post Office. It’s competent and functional. At least where I live.
     
    Alden, surely you meant that sarcastically.

    Replies: @Alden

    It’s really fine in the parts of Los Angeles and the Bay Area where I live. Really.

  237. @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The thing is Buzz, just reading the news articles posted on UNZ made it very clear Epstein wanted short thin fair haired Nordic Barbie doll underdeveloped for their age girls. That’s why his henchmen or girls had to work so hard finding them in Miami where so many locals are darker Hispanics. There were some videos of girls coming and going from his NYC house. They may have been 16 but they were very small and flat chested.

    But if you want to defend a nation wide search for 11 or 12 year old short thin underdeveloped Nordic type triplets, bringing them to Pedo Island across international borders, raping them and putting them on a commercial flight home before they even stopped bleeding, go right ahead you filthy old pervert.

    I never realized how perverted and horrible men are until the summer of 2019 when Epstein was arrested. And the MEN OF UNZ defended Epstein while fantasying about harems of pretty little living Barbie dolls.

    If that French model agent pimp procurer friend of Epstein’s had procured 12 year old prepubescent boys; would you creepy perverts defend that? If he preferred young teen boys would you guys defend Epstein the way you do?

    I doubt it.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Buzz Mohawk, @Classy Classicist

    And the MEN OF UNZ defended Epstein while fantasying about harems of pretty little living Barbie dolls.

    I cannot speak for any of the other MEN OF UNZ [TM], Ms. Alden. But you ought to know that I, at least, am a very respectable man. Take my erotic interests, for example: strictly limited-to unmarried females above the age of 21.

    [MORE]
    And males below the age of ~17…

    • LOL: Alden
  238. @Paperback Writer
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)


    If you have young daughters or nieces you observe this in process – they learn at very young ages that they can get what they want by manipulating people, particularly men. It’s cute because it’s so very obvious, and they haven’t acquired the guile yet to really disguise what they’re doing all of the way.
     
    Now here is where culture comes in. The late actor Omar Sharif once described exactly what you are describing here. It is simply a universal truth. But he thought it was charming. He loved the fact that little girls got what they sought by manipulation, while boys stamp their foot and scream, "I want it!" Because he was an Arab. You seem to think there's something sinister about manipulation, because you are an Anglo-Saxon. Really, it's just one way to get what you want, and as you indicate, for females, the only way.

    Being outside or at the periphery of the tribe is probably much more terrifying for women because historically it probably signaled a slide towards deprivation and death.
     
    I have a crazy theory that American slavery began in the 17th Century Virginia colony as a humane way to care for outcaste part-African females and their children. In 1662 the Virginia House of Burgesses decreed that slavery was passed down from mother to child, not, father to child.

    Replies: @Alden, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    It’s a good theory. Never thought of that. Now I would like to quote the eternal question of UNZ commenters.

    “ Where were the fathers?”

    It meant the moms and kids stayed on the fathers farm or home and he had to support them and train the kids for useful work.

  239. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tom F.
    Josh Duggar's kiddie p0rn trial and the J6 "occupants" (note the description has changed as the regime narrative collapses) are trials that should be right-up-there, but we are all just burned out on the lack of progress.

    Dog-that-didn't-bark trial might be the 10 CIA employees found with kiddie p0rn on their computers, protected by John Brennan and the regime.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    kiddie p0rn trial

    How much sense does the present legal approach to “child pornography” really make? The severe criminalization of mere viewing and possession of what are, no matter how offensive, still ultimately merely images; inanimate objects? Even in cases where there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the viewer of such material either had any part in its production, or poses any danger to anyone? Do we criminalize the mere posession and viewing of images of any other type of crimes?

    Is it the images themselves that we ought to be concerned with? Or is it the crimes and abuse that the images evidence*? The present laws effectively encourage the destruction of said evidence– evidence that could, in many cases, prove invaluable in tracking and prosecuting the actual perpetrators of said crimes. Is that really what we really want to do?

    [MORE]

    *In those cases, albeit many and likely even most, when the images-in-question actually do evidence abuse; another problem with the often extremely broad classification of “child pornography” or “child sex abuse material” (CSAM) is how subjective, arbitrary and capricious it can be. There have been cases in which utterly innocuous bath and beach photos have been flagged under the classification-in-question, resulting in perfectly innocent parents being harassed. The laws in many jurisdictions could be interpreted/applied, by someone of authority who were so-inclined, to cover even clothing advertisements commonly found in weekly circulars. One can even imagine much classical art, such as that of William Adolphe Bouguereau, and many Victorian works and artists, being classified as “CSAM” under the hysterical standards and sensibilities that frequently prevail in our present era.

    Dog-that-didn’t-bark trial might be the 10 CIA employees found with kiddie p0rn on their computers,

    It has been suggested, and even alleged, that at least some of those employed ostensibly to hunt/fight CSAM, in truth entered such fields for prurient motives; for the practically unlimited access such employment to such material that such employment grants. Hardly seems far-fetched, does it? Is it not well-known that some cops, for example, are drawn to the job for the opportunities it provides to benefit from blackmail, bribes and any number of other unlawful behaviors?

  240. @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer

    You are making a common error here - you are confusing my description of the way things really ARE with the way things OUGHT TO BE. We all OUGHT TO BE as brave as Alexei Navalny or as Hugh Thompson , but most of us can't meet those standards. Most people just want a quiet life.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    How many times do I have to repeat what YOU said: perverse behavior becomes “normalized.” You, not I, generalized that to the entirety of humankind. Go back to your comment where you used the phrase “normalized.”

    And again, I was pointing out that this behavior is only “normalized” among the already perverse, but for whatever reason, you can’t see that. Or maybe you do and you’re just having fun arguing.

    But actually, in your crazy way, you helped me to a conclusion: the group around Epstein wasn’t in it for the sex or the power. But I’m not going to say what my conclusion is because I’m not getting paid to spill my good ideas here.

  241. @Hibernian
    @David In TN


    If the jury hangs, the Left, MSM, etc will proclaim it a victory for Smollett.
     
    And he won't be retried.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    Gonna go out on a limb here & predict he’ll be convicted, and it won’t take long. Willing to put up with abuse if I’m wrong.

    But things don’t look great for poor Kim Potter. The judge is a real piece of work, so I’ve heard.

  242. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    That's funny how terms evolve, and not unreasonably. Bold-faced sounds pretty close to right in the Steve Jobs era when we all deal with fonts more than the average person did in the past.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Jack D

    I think it’s just the ignorance of a half educated new generation. Today in the NY Post I saw a story in which “hitting the breaks” was mentioned.

  243. @Alden
    @Alexander Turok

    The whole political system isn’t up ended because of this trial. It’s just standard pimping escort agency owner type charges. That’s all. It’s the money private island 71 million mansions that makes it newsworthy.

    Lots of pimps and prostitutes and escort services in America Every once in a while a pimp gets caught and charged. That’s all. Pimping of minors carries additional charges and penalties against the pimp. Which is why most pimps stay away from girls under 18. How hard is that? How hard is it to hire a bartender or liquor truck driver liquor store clerk whose 21 and over legally allowed to handle liquor?

    There are flourishing prostitution organizations all over the world. They are seldom bothered by law enforcement because the girls are over the age of consent whatever it may be in that jurisdiction.

    The first girl to come forward was 14 years old a high school freshman. A friend told her about a rich man in a huge luxurious mansion would she like to meet him. The girl went got scared and left. She and her step mother went to the police. That started the investigation. 14 years old.

    I know the MEN OF UNZ believe all girls on their 11 or 12th birthday are mindless bodies to be used by any man who wants them. But your favorite under age porn sites are not real life. The actresses aren’t under age either. 21 and over, slim and collagen injected made up and lighted up to look younger.

    That’s what started the investigation a 14 year old and step mom reported attempted sex assault to the police.

    Even before that the neighbors on Epstein’s street noticed heavy traffic of teen girls arriving at Epstein’s hoisin and leaving 40 minutes later several times a day. Even with large lots fences and hedges; neighbors notice what’s going on. The Palm Beach police set up periodic roadblocks and stopped plenty of young women. But everyone the police stopped had ID that showed they were over 18. But 18 or not, a steady parade of young women coming and going all day had the neighbors talking.

    Neighbors notice construction going on And often report not permit construction. Neighbors hear 15 sewing machines operating in the garage and report an illegal factory in the garage. Neighbors hear screaming and yelling and call that in to the police

    And neighbors on Epstein’s street notified the police of the heavy traffic of young women coming and going. Years before the first 14 year old and her mom reported an attempted sexual assault on the 14 year old at Epstein’s house.

    Think of it as a media creation like Jacob Blake. Small town Kenosha WI. Local scumbag Blake violates restraining order, steals car keys grabs kids who he is supposed to stay away from per the restraining order starts to drive away with the kids. Auto theft and robbery of the keys aa he took them from the woman violating a restraining order. Blake defies the police attacks them they shoot him.
    A standard Black squabble the police had to intervene in because of the existing restraining order. Nation wide coverage arson and riots ensue.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    I know the MEN OF UNZ believe all girls on their 11 or 12th birthday are mindless bodies to be used by any man who wants them.

    Just curious: Can you provide a quote from any one of your “MEN OF UNZ” to that effect?

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Buzz Mohawk

    It is an inference from the fact that some (like myself) put next to no priority on the statutory rape when the context of it is that presidents, governors, and et al are being blackmailed by nefarious powers. I temper this because the sensation of all the statutory rape is generating so much buzz that perhaps, just maybe, a little light might reflect on the true priority item here kind of by accident. The government is trying to contain this. Perhaps the cunning plan will screw up or fail.

    , @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    You just clipped and pasted something about 11-14 year olds. And the guy who spent the summer of 2019 making comments about sex should be legal with 10 and 11 year olds turned out to be a sex offender with a long criminal record for it.

    Sex with girls under a certain age is illegal in every American state and territory is illegal. The age seems to differ between 16 and 18. There are exemptions if one party is just 3 or 4 years older than the girl. But not if the man is 10, 20 or 40 years older.

    The MEN OF UNZ are adamant that the age of consent laws should be repealed so that creepy old perverts ( like yourselves???) should have access to teen and younger girls.

    27 years a probation officer mostly rapes and other sex crimes I developed an instinct about these things.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @David In TN

  244. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Alden


    I know the MEN OF UNZ believe all girls on their 11 or 12th birthday are mindless bodies to be used by any man who wants them.
     
    Just curious: Can you provide a quote from any one of your "MEN OF UNZ" to that effect?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Alden

    It is an inference from the fact that some (like myself) put next to no priority on the statutory rape when the context of it is that presidents, governors, and et al are being blackmailed by nefarious powers. I temper this because the sensation of all the statutory rape is generating so much buzz that perhaps, just maybe, a little light might reflect on the true priority item here kind of by accident. The government is trying to contain this. Perhaps the cunning plan will screw up or fail.

  245. @Jonathan Mason
    @APL

    Yes some tests can be done with a single drop of blood, such as an ACCU-CHEK for a fasting blood sugar, or a test for warfarin levels, but many common test in hematology, blood chemistry, and coagulation require that the collected blood be centrifuged to separate the cells from the serum.

    For example how could you get a hematocrit reading without doing this?

    This is such an obvious basic and fundamental question, that it would be hard to go beyond it without Theranos providing at least a theory.

    Replies: @AKAHorace

    This is such an obvious basic and fundamental question, that it would be hard to go beyond it without Theranos providing at least a theory.

    The basic problem with Theranos is that they started with the idea “wouldn’t it be cool if we could do this ?” Which might be true. But they had no real idea of how to do them. So they had to push and harass people to come up with a way of doing it, no matter how difficult or unlikely success was.

    Rather than “We have found these results in experiments. What could we do use them for to do something useful ?”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @AKAHorace

    In software and marketing, coming up with a cool idea and then fake it until you make it is more or less okay. That guy who founded Zappos and recently died of drugs started Zappos.com without any kind of supply chain other than that he'd hustle over to Discount Show Warehouse and buy in person the shoes customers had ordered from him.

    But in medical technology, that's not so forgivable. I don't care that, say, Rupert Murdoch lost his $150 million investment (in fact, he comes out looking pretty good because he let his underling, WSJ reporter John Carreyou, take Theranos down). But this stupid bloodtesting machine scared a bunch of Walgreen's customers half to death by telling them they must rush to the ER in fear of their lives. I haven't heard about anybody dying from Theranos machinese, fortunately, but still ...

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  246. @thenon
    @Paperback Writer

    You nailed it. Every famous pervert wants company to avoid the danger of standing out, like a schooling fish. On the other hand Steven Pinker probably wanted to use his perm and bleach job to be mistaken for one of the girls.

    Replies: @AKAHorace

    You nailed it. Every famous pervert wants company to avoid the danger of standing out, like a schooling fish.

    Epstein seems to have tried to involve Scientists and Royalty in his social circle. Two groups that people think are respectable and reliable. People who could give him an image of worthyness.

  247. @AKAHorace
    @Jonathan Mason


    This is such an obvious basic and fundamental question, that it would be hard to go beyond it without Theranos providing at least a theory.
     
    The basic problem with Theranos is that they started with the idea "wouldn't it be cool if we could do this ?" Which might be true. But they had no real idea of how to do them. So they had to push and harass people to come up with a way of doing it, no matter how difficult or unlikely success was.

    Rather than "We have found these results in experiments. What could we do use them for to do something useful ?"

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    In software and marketing, coming up with a cool idea and then fake it until you make it is more or less okay. That guy who founded Zappos and recently died of drugs started Zappos.com without any kind of supply chain other than that he’d hustle over to Discount Show Warehouse and buy in person the shoes customers had ordered from him.

    But in medical technology, that’s not so forgivable. I don’t care that, say, Rupert Murdoch lost his \$150 million investment (in fact, he comes out looking pretty good because he let his underling, WSJ reporter John Carreyou, take Theranos down). But this stupid bloodtesting machine scared a bunch of Walgreen’s customers half to death by telling them they must rush to the ER in fear of their lives. I haven’t heard about anybody dying from Theranos machinese, fortunately, but still …

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    Discount Show Warehouse
     
    Typo, or pun? Is this off-off- or off-off-off-Broadway?

    Replies: @Danny Clover

  248. @ic1000
    @Alden

    > And the MEN OF UNZ defended Epstein [in the summer of 2019 when he was arrested]

    ?? I don't read all of the comments, but I would have remembered that.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    > And the MEN OF UNZ defended Epstein

    ?? I don’t read all of the comments, but I would have remembered that.

    Brian, perhaps, or Joseph. But Jeffrey? Nah. Not around here.

    • LOL: ic1000
  249. @Steve Sailer
    @AKAHorace

    In software and marketing, coming up with a cool idea and then fake it until you make it is more or less okay. That guy who founded Zappos and recently died of drugs started Zappos.com without any kind of supply chain other than that he'd hustle over to Discount Show Warehouse and buy in person the shoes customers had ordered from him.

    But in medical technology, that's not so forgivable. I don't care that, say, Rupert Murdoch lost his $150 million investment (in fact, he comes out looking pretty good because he let his underling, WSJ reporter John Carreyou, take Theranos down). But this stupid bloodtesting machine scared a bunch of Walgreen's customers half to death by telling them they must rush to the ER in fear of their lives. I haven't heard about anybody dying from Theranos machinese, fortunately, but still ...

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Discount Show Warehouse

    Typo, or pun? Is this off-off- or off-off-off-Broadway?

    • Replies: @Danny Clover
    @Reg Cæsar



    Discount Show Warehouse
     
    Typo, or pun? Is this off-off- or off-off-off-Broadway?

     

    We are already well-into December and have been hearing reports of inflation and other financial woes for some time. Will this be the Winter of Our Discount Tent?
  250. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Jonathan Mason

    Correct, and in many times and places, those girls would have been legal. Even in several US states.

    This whole Maxwell/Epstein thing is much ado about not much, perhaps to obscure a lot.

    There are underage prostitutes all over America. I knew one from Sacramento who started there when she was fifteen. She had stories to tell of older men who hired her.

    When I met her, she was a high school senior dating the quarterback. She confided in me that he told her she was "the best he'd ever had." She laughed, because he didn't know her past. This was in 1978, and I was her age. She had moved away to Colorado to stay with another family (friends of hers and ours) and to get away from her past. We made friends.

    Replies: @Pericles

    Ubiquitous underage hookers is, you know, a sign of degeneracy rather than a good thing. Do I have to mention that pimping the kids out is actually bad too?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Pericles


    Ubiquitous underage hookers is, you know, a sign of degeneracy rather than a good thing.
     
    Of course it is.

    Do I have to mention that pimping the kids out is actually bad too?
     
    No, you don't. Do I have to explain that I was describing reality, not condoning it?

    Replies: @Danny Clover

    , @Jack D
    @Pericles

    Attitudes toward hooking (even underage hooking) seem to vary vastly between time and place. The first time Epstein came into the sights of the justice system everyone thought it was no big deal and he received a slap on the wrist. In round 2, for the very same acts, he became Public Enemy #1 and they were gonna lock him up and throw away the key. What changed between Round 1 and Round 2 other than the moral pendulum swung from one extreme to the other?

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

  251. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D

    I have been in a situation in various times of my life training people like prison officers and emergency room personnel in restraining violent people.

    Most people don't realize how easy it is to kill people by holding them down on the ground, particularly in the prone or face-down position, and particularly if they are overweight or fat, and unused to wrestling, because they may go into respiratory failure and quickly lose consciousness if they are not put in the lateral resting position.

    To be honest I don't think Chauvin realized how dangerous the situation was, and he was probably pretty pissed off with the sainted one spoiling his afternoon, and not in the mood to play nice.

    He probably wasn't cutting off George's airway with his knee, but the pressure of holding him on the ground was restricting the movement of his rib cage and diaphragm.

    Chauvin was a cop and not an EMT or medical provider, but he should have been trained better.

    Hopefully that episode will make police forces everywhere even more aware of the dangers of forcefully holding people down on the ground.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Pericles

    Then there was the fact that Floyd had overdosed on fentanyl. But never mind.

  252. @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D

    Shocked or not, neither of us knew during the Summer of Floyd that all of the protests were being surveilled, droned, and videoed.

    Replies: @Pericles

    Even though the antifa attacked those who filmed them with literal impunity. The difference is the government tapes are in a safe place.

  253. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D


    Even if Chauvin was unaware at first, various people in the crowd, including EMTs, pointed it out to him and begged him to let go. At that point, something else happened – he wasn’t going to let the crowd boss him around and lose face and perhaps lose control of the situation. He was in a hole and he violated the first rule of holes, which is to stop digging.

     

    I think what we're not understanding is that in a dynamic situation under threat from the hostile assembled crowd he probably didn't have a very good understanding of the time elapsing. Cops are taught not to lose control of the scene - that's how really bad things happen, so I'd guess that it was top of mind for Chauvin as the senior officer on scene. He would have no reason to believe someone in plain clothes on scene among the hostile crowd purporting to be an EMT was, in fact, and EMT.

    I watched part of the trial via live stream, and my understanding of the prosecution's theory of the case was that the battery was the "felony" in a felony murder charge (which is bizarre), and that the battery consisted not of Chauvin merely kneeling on Floyd's neck and back (which was a hold taught to Minneapolis cops) but kneeling on his neck and back for the duration of time that he did. (the Prosecution's expert parsed and testified that we didn't train them to perform the hold for that long). Even then, the jury was instructed that it only had to find that this "battery" contributed to Floyd's death among the other contributing causes of his heart arrest including preexisting cardiovascular conditions and the presence of intoxicants including methamphetamines and fentanyl in his system.

    This seems like successive acts of threading the legal needle to me, which in ordinary times and ordinary cases would not have been charged at all.

    All that being said, I don’t think that Chauvin at any point ever had homicidal intent and I think that something like negligent homicide would have been the more appropriate verdict.
     
    To conclude that Chauvin had homicidal intent, you'd have to believe that he conspired with three other officers, one rookie mixed race African American, one rookie white officer, and one Hmong officer - two of whom there is no evidence he had ever met prior, and that he intended to kill Floyd despite calling an ambulance for medical assistance.

    More likely, it was a bad mix of people and factors, including unknowns (the officers observed Floyd to be intoxicated and excited, but they didn't know from what intoxicants), resulting in a death that is statistically inevitable in a nation of 330,000+ people given the number of police interactions per annum. An unfortunate accident, but the natives demanded that a white man be thrown into a volcano, and he was.

    Replies: @ic1000

    > An unfortunate accident, but the natives demanded that a white man be thrown into a volcano, and he was.

    Good synopsis of the case. Another ingredient of the volcano-throwing recipe was the judge’s denial of Chauvin’s efforts to exercise his pesky Constitutional right to a fair trial.

    Minnesota Rules of Criminal Procedure
    Rule 24.03 – Change of Venue
    Subdivision 1. Grounds. The case may be transferred to another county:
    a. If the court is satisfied that a fair and impartial trial cannot be had in the county in which the case is pending

    The New York-Washington Times-Post, NBC News, and the Minneapolis Star Tribune agreed that inflaming the jury pool was Not A Thing, that BLM/Antifa burn-it-down threats were okay, and that juror Brandon Mitchell lying to the court was actually look a squirrel.

    Nothing to see here. Just baizou being baizou.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @ic1000

    You also forgot to add that the Floyd family's civil suit was settled with great Press fanfare on the eve of the Chauvin trial in order to drive the point home to the jury.

  254. @Pericles
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Ubiquitous underage hookers is, you know, a sign of degeneracy rather than a good thing. Do I have to mention that pimping the kids out is actually bad too?

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Jack D

    Ubiquitous underage hookers is, you know, a sign of degeneracy rather than a good thing.

    Of course it is.

    Do I have to mention that pimping the kids out is actually bad too?

    No, you don’t. Do I have to explain that I was describing reality, not condoning it?

    • Replies: @Danny Clover
    @Buzz Mohawk


    Do I have to explain that I was describing reality, not condoning it?
     
    That is indeed a critical distinction here. And one for which the inability or unwillingness to appreciate would appear to account for at least much of the seemingly overwrought reactions directed toward you, JackD, and others. Adolescent sexuality is a perilously fraught area that presents more ambiguity than society is comfortable. Or, in many cases, even ready to acknowledge.
  255. @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D

    It never ceases to amaze me how you manage to manipulate an argument out of nothing.

    I expressed surprise at why people who could get sex & power by other means got involved in this. I ascribed it to extreme corruption. You chimed in by saying that when you're surrounded by such behavior, it's "normalized."

    I responded by saying that it's never normalized to normal people. There's always an inner core that's incorruptible in a person who is fundamentally moral. Yes, you may be part of a gang and that gang does bad things and you seem to be going along, but inside you're resisting. And eventually you leave the gang.

    You manage to twist that into something incriminating about the dissenter who finally screws up the courage to say "no." For these girls, it's only about money.

    That's not true anyway. They had to go through hell in order to find a measure of justice, and even so, they have to put up with guys like you who heap abuse on them.

    Stay classy, Jack.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Alden

    The defiling of shiksa princesses (too young to be goddesses) doesn’t quite impinge on Jackie Boy’s conscience.

    • Replies: @Danny Clover
    @Brutusale


    The defiling of shiksa princesses (too young to be goddesses) doesn’t quite impinge on Jackie Boy’s conscience.
     
    Can you cite any evidence that the positions JackD has taken concerning the Epstein case would be any different had his alleged victims been Jewish?

    Conversely, imagine if all of Epstein's alleged victims had been Jewish but Epstein himself had not been. How differently might you and anyone else who presently considers Epstein as little, if at all better than a child-rapist view the case then?

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  256. @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D

    It never ceases to amaze me how you manage to manipulate an argument out of nothing.

    I expressed surprise at why people who could get sex & power by other means got involved in this. I ascribed it to extreme corruption. You chimed in by saying that when you're surrounded by such behavior, it's "normalized."

    I responded by saying that it's never normalized to normal people. There's always an inner core that's incorruptible in a person who is fundamentally moral. Yes, you may be part of a gang and that gang does bad things and you seem to be going along, but inside you're resisting. And eventually you leave the gang.

    You manage to twist that into something incriminating about the dissenter who finally screws up the courage to say "no." For these girls, it's only about money.

    That's not true anyway. They had to go through hell in order to find a measure of justice, and even so, they have to put up with guys like you who heap abuse on them.

    Stay classy, Jack.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Alden

    Hmmmm Women talk you know. I have a friend whose Dad molested her starting when she was about two years old. Or as far back as she could remember. She had no idea it was not part of normal family life. When she was 9 she and a friend were complaining together about parents rules chores bedtime etc. she said to her friend “ don’t you hate it when your Dad makes you…..,”. and the friend didn’t know what she was talking about.

    Her Dad was an inspector with the FAA a high ranking manager of the inspectors with an aeronautical engineering degree. From generations of a solid professional middle class family. Not poor White trash Dad did her brother too. Mom committed suicide when she was 13 brother 11. About a year after my friend reported it.

    Dad was never punished. No police or other investigation. Never touched her or brother again after she stood up to him. She grabbed an Air Force Officer from the nearby Air Force base as soon as she finished high school and left home.

    MEN OF UNZ MEN OF UNZ

    I can’t decide if you are incredibly naive or child molesters or at least under age porn addicts.

    There’s also the age factor. Back when her father was molesting her, my friend hated it and him. But had no idea it wasn’t normal or that there were any laws that forbade it. She’s about the age of most of the aged codgers of UNZ Perhaps that explains the MEN OF UNZ defense of Epstein Maxwell and denunciations of the girls.

    Or else you all wish you were Epstein with a harem of 14 year old underdeveloped for their age Nordic barbies to play with.

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @Alden

    I don't think many of us are "defending" Epstein. It's just that some of us realize it won't end with him. Their goal is a world where anytime a woman decides she's got a grudge against you, she can yell "RAAAAPPPEEE" and you'll get kicked out of college, fired from your job, thrown in prison. You better make sure none of your exes are angry with you, Enlightened Man.

    As for the denunciations of the girls, this is a question of whether the state should send someone to prison. That's why people are asking if they are credible witnesses, it's not out of a malevolent desire to be mean to them. Here's a question to feminists and QFags, suppose you got to know these accusers. Would you let them borrow your car? Babysit your child?

  257. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Alden


    I know the MEN OF UNZ believe all girls on their 11 or 12th birthday are mindless bodies to be used by any man who wants them.
     
    Just curious: Can you provide a quote from any one of your "MEN OF UNZ" to that effect?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Alden

    You just clipped and pasted something about 11-14 year olds. And the guy who spent the summer of 2019 making comments about sex should be legal with 10 and 11 year olds turned out to be a sex offender with a long criminal record for it.

    Sex with girls under a certain age is illegal in every American state and territory is illegal. The age seems to differ between 16 and 18. There are exemptions if one party is just 3 or 4 years older than the girl. But not if the man is 10, 20 or 40 years older.

    The MEN OF UNZ are adamant that the age of consent laws should be repealed so that creepy old perverts ( like yourselves???) should have access to teen and younger girls.

    27 years a probation officer mostly rapes and other sex crimes I developed an instinct about these things.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Alden

    You, Alden, said:


    I know the MEN OF UNZ believe all girls on their 11 or 12th birthday are mindless bodies to be used by any man who wants them.
     
    Then I asked you:

    Just curious: Can you provide a quote from any one of your “MEN OF UNZ” to that effect?
     
    Then you answered:

    You just clipped and pasted something about 11-14 year olds.
     
    I knew that had something to do with your rant, and that is why I asked. (It's called cross examination, and I got the answer I wanted.) Your answer allows me to prove that your implication that I somehow approve of abusing girls is incorrect.

    What I had done was clip and paste a definition of hebephilia:


    “Hebephilia is the strong, persistent sexual interest by adults in pubescent children who are in early adolescence, typically ages 11–14 and showing Tanner stages 2 to 3 of physical development,” according to Wikipedia (the font of all knowledge) and footnoted to: Stephens S, Seto MC (2015). Phenix A, Hoberman H (eds.). Sexual Offending: Predisposing Antecedents, Assessments and Management. Springer. pp. 29–41.
     
    I did this to show that media and commenters have been incorrect when they have labeled the Epstein/Maxwell stuff pedophilia, which they have done. I was describing reality, not condoning it. Do you understand the difference?

    The triplets and perhaps others fall into the hebephilia category.

    Other Epstein/Maxwell girls fit the ephebophilia category, ages 15-19. Those are the ages of teenaged prostitutes, including one I knew when I was a teenager myself.

    (I know firsthand how teenagers can screw up their lives with sex: One of my sisters got pregnant when she was 14. Witnessing that as a young boy, I learned to be careful with sex, but you might find that hard to believe, having accused me of being a pervert and just now virtually labeling me as a pedophile/hebephile/ephebophile or whatever pleases you. Sex is fun and powerful and requires care and responsibility; it is not something for adults to do with teenagers. )

    The Epstein/Maxwell victims were enticed to become prostitutes. My point is that this a common occurrance. I do not condone it. I simply wonder if we are all distracted by something that is bad but not the whole story of the monster on trial now and the monster who is supposedly dead. I suspect the prostitution was part of something bigger, but -- please understand -- I completely agree with you that what the men did to the girls is a crime and a terrible thing.

    You wrote:


    The MEN OF UNZ are adamant that the age of consent laws should be repealed so that creepy old perverts ( like yourselves???) should have access to teen and younger girls.
     
    No, not this "MAN OF UNZ." You recently wrote that you and other women say things about individual men whereas, you claim we talk about women in general. Well, can you see what you are doing to me now? You are accusing me along with all the others of wanting to schtup with underage, illegal girls.

    You are, quite frankly, hysterical and full of shit. The fact that you worked in some form of law enforcement is frightening.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Danny Clover

    , @David In TN
    @Alden

    Epstein didn't think sex with 14-16 year old girls was (or should be) a crime. Nor (probably) do many of the rich people he socialized with.

    Epstein attorney Alan Dershowitz wrote an Op-Ed for the LA Times around 1997 advocating for the age of consent being reduced from 18 to 15.

  258. @ic1000
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    > An unfortunate accident, but the natives demanded that a white man be thrown into a volcano, and he was.

    Good synopsis of the case. Another ingredient of the volcano-throwing recipe was the judge's denial of Chauvin's efforts to exercise his pesky Constitutional right to a fair trial.


    Minnesota Rules of Criminal Procedure
    Rule 24.03 - Change of Venue
    Subdivision 1. Grounds. The case may be transferred to another county:
    a. If the court is satisfied that a fair and impartial trial cannot be had in the county in which the case is pending
     
    The New York-Washington Times-Post, NBC News, and the Minneapolis Star Tribune agreed that inflaming the jury pool was Not A Thing, that BLM/Antifa burn-it-down threats were okay, and that juror Brandon Mitchell lying to the court was actually look a squirrel.

    Nothing to see here. Just baizou being baizou.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    You also forgot to add that the Floyd family’s civil suit was settled with great Press fanfare on the eve of the Chauvin trial in order to drive the point home to the jury.

  259. @Paperback Writer
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)


    If you have young daughters or nieces you observe this in process – they learn at very young ages that they can get what they want by manipulating people, particularly men. It’s cute because it’s so very obvious, and they haven’t acquired the guile yet to really disguise what they’re doing all of the way.
     
    Now here is where culture comes in. The late actor Omar Sharif once described exactly what you are describing here. It is simply a universal truth. But he thought it was charming. He loved the fact that little girls got what they sought by manipulation, while boys stamp their foot and scream, "I want it!" Because he was an Arab. You seem to think there's something sinister about manipulation, because you are an Anglo-Saxon. Really, it's just one way to get what you want, and as you indicate, for females, the only way.

    Being outside or at the periphery of the tribe is probably much more terrifying for women because historically it probably signaled a slide towards deprivation and death.
     
    I have a crazy theory that American slavery began in the 17th Century Virginia colony as a humane way to care for outcaste part-African females and their children. In 1662 the Virginia House of Burgesses decreed that slavery was passed down from mother to child, not, father to child.

    Replies: @Alden, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Now here is where culture comes in. The late actor Omar Sharif once described exactly what you are describing here. It is simply a universal truth. But he thought it was charming. He loved the fact that little girls got what they sought by manipulation, while boys stamp their foot and scream, “I want it!” Because he was an Arab. You seem to think there’s something sinister about manipulation, because you are an Anglo-Saxon. Really, it’s just one way to get what you want, and as you indicate, for females, the only way.

    Perhaps, but Arabs don’t let women engage in much of the important decision-making in their societies, so the stakes of giving in to manipulations are much, much diminished. At that point, they’re just indulgences, and it’s all quite endearing.

  260. @Pericles
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Ubiquitous underage hookers is, you know, a sign of degeneracy rather than a good thing. Do I have to mention that pimping the kids out is actually bad too?

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Jack D

    Attitudes toward hooking (even underage hooking) seem to vary vastly between time and place. The first time Epstein came into the sights of the justice system everyone thought it was no big deal and he received a slap on the wrist. In round 2, for the very same acts, he became Public Enemy #1 and they were gonna lock him up and throw away the key. What changed between Round 1 and Round 2 other than the moral pendulum swung from one extreme to the other?

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    Attitudes toward hooking (even underage hooking) seem to vary vastly between time and place. The first time Epstein came into the sights of the justice system everyone thought it was no big deal and he received a slap on the wrist. In round 2, for the very same acts, he became Public Enemy #1 and they were gonna lock him up and throw away the key. What changed between Round 1 and Round 2 other than the moral pendulum swung from one extreme to the other?
     
    The traditional boundary, reflected in coming-of-age events like the quinceanera and the bat mitzvah, was that once childbearing age was reached, typically in the early or mid-teens, sexual relations were acceptable. The 18-year-old jailbait boundary is a 20th century phenomenon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

    For about 100 years after age of consent laws were raised to 18 in many US states, we kind of floated in this gray area* re social acceptability. It looks like it's no longer a gray area.

    * Between Elvis's romance with Priscilla at 14, and Jerry Lee Lewis's relationship with Myra Gale Brown, his 13-year-old cousin, it's clear that there was a huge window during which the major consequence was salacious gossip rather than decades in prison.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @IHTG, @Alden

  261. @Colin Wright
    @Jack D

    'Right. That’s why they kept going back to Epstein’s house and collecting more $ for “massages” over and over, due to their lack of reconciliation and then kept quiet for 20 years until a multimillion $ settlement was on offer. Then they realized how badly accepting all that money from EpsteinEptein’s subjugation had damaged them.'

    These various aspects of the case aren't mutually exclusive. I may beat my wife for twenty years, and she may stick around -- but that doesn't mean it was good for her or that she enjoyed it. It doesn't even mean it was okay.

    The fact of the matter is that while I see self-righteous, categorical denunciation of all sex with underage girls as it it were something the speaker himself would never, ever engage in as sheer hypocrisy, what Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell did is right out. You do not find unhappy children, bribe them with candy, use them and pass them around, and then toss them aside.

    That's wrong -- it just is.

    Replies: @Danny Clover

    That’s why they kept going back to Epstein’s house and collecting more \$ for “massages” over and over, due to their lack of reconciliation and then kept quiet for 20 years until a multimillion \$ settlement was on offer.

    These various aspects of the case aren’t mutually exclusive.

    Not mutually exclusive, no. But is the scenario in-queston not suspect, even highly suspect? When an individual, after seemingly voluntarily engaging in an activity with/ maintaining a relationship with someone repeatedly, over an extended period of time, first comes forward to allege abuse (a) many years later, and (b) at a time when doing so offers the possibility of a lucrative financial, political or other advantage of self-interest?

    I may beat my wife for twenty years, and she may stick around — but that doesn’t mean it was good for her or that she enjoyed it. It doesn’t even mean it was okay.

    True. Obviously and undoubtedly. Nonetheless, if such a wife did stick around, and did not make any serious effort to free herself from the situation, and then…see above; it would (at least barring conclusive or overwhelming counter-evidence) make her claims suspect.

    (By the way, when did you stop beating your wife? 🙂 )

    I see self-righteous, categorical denunciation of all sex with underage girls as it it were something the speaker himself would never, ever engage in as sheer hypocrisy,

    Or at least “…would never, ever at least desire or fantasize about…”. The assertion, certainly, that only a pervert or a reprobate could even so much as find erotic appeal in a post-pubescent but still under-age-of-consent adolescent would seem entirely unfounded. Individuals who make such assertions probably tell us more about themselves in doing so than about anything else.

    You do not find unhappy children, bribe them with candy, use them and pass them around, and then toss them aside.

    Is it, though, accurate and honest to refer-to the alleged victims in the case-in-question as children? Weren’t they visibly post-pubescent adolescents? (Not that using and discarding anyone in the manner you have described would be acceptable.)

  262. @Brutusale
    @Paperback Writer

    The defiling of shiksa princesses (too young to be goddesses) doesn't quite impinge on Jackie Boy's conscience.

    Replies: @Danny Clover

    The defiling of shiksa princesses (too young to be goddesses) doesn’t quite impinge on Jackie Boy’s conscience.

    Can you cite any evidence that the positions JackD has taken concerning the Epstein case would be any different had his alleged victims been Jewish?

    Conversely, imagine if all of Epstein’s alleged victims had been Jewish but Epstein himself had not been. How differently might you and anyone else who presently considers Epstein as little, if at all better than a child-rapist view the case then?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Danny Clover

    'Conversely, imagine if all of Epstein’s alleged victims had been Jewish but Epstein himself had not been. How differently might you and anyone else who presently considers Epstein as little, if at all better than a child-rapist view the case then?'

    ? Why would that make any difference?

    Replies: @Danny Clover

  263. @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    Discount Show Warehouse
     
    Typo, or pun? Is this off-off- or off-off-off-Broadway?

    Replies: @Danny Clover

    Discount Show Warehouse

    Typo, or pun? Is this off-off- or off-off-off-Broadway?

    We are already well-into December and have been hearing reports of inflation and other financial woes for some time. Will this be the Winter of Our Discount Tent?

  264. • Replies: @Alden
    @MEH 0910

    Wonderful now he can serve a short time in county jail or state prison and become even more of a martyr. He can write or have someone write for him “ Letters from a Cook County Jail.” Just as Saint MLK wrote or had written Letters from the Birmingham Jail.

  265. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Pericles


    Ubiquitous underage hookers is, you know, a sign of degeneracy rather than a good thing.
     
    Of course it is.

    Do I have to mention that pimping the kids out is actually bad too?
     
    No, you don't. Do I have to explain that I was describing reality, not condoning it?

    Replies: @Danny Clover

    Do I have to explain that I was describing reality, not condoning it?

    That is indeed a critical distinction here. And one for which the inability or unwillingness to appreciate would appear to account for at least much of the seemingly overwrought reactions directed toward you, JackD, and others. Adolescent sexuality is a perilously fraught area that presents more ambiguity than society is comfortable. Or, in many cases, even ready to acknowledge.

    • Thanks: Buzz Mohawk

  266. [MORE]

  267. The Maxwell case has been underwhelming, and the media is already preparing their audience for an acquittal:

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/12/the-prosecution-is-fumbling-its-case-against-ghislaine-maxwell

    You saw similar articles on the Rittenhouse case, once the media was confronted with the disconnect between what they had reported as fact and the evidence that is being presented in court.

  268. @Jack D
    @Pericles

    Attitudes toward hooking (even underage hooking) seem to vary vastly between time and place. The first time Epstein came into the sights of the justice system everyone thought it was no big deal and he received a slap on the wrist. In round 2, for the very same acts, he became Public Enemy #1 and they were gonna lock him up and throw away the key. What changed between Round 1 and Round 2 other than the moral pendulum swung from one extreme to the other?

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

    Attitudes toward hooking (even underage hooking) seem to vary vastly between time and place. The first time Epstein came into the sights of the justice system everyone thought it was no big deal and he received a slap on the wrist. In round 2, for the very same acts, he became Public Enemy #1 and they were gonna lock him up and throw away the key. What changed between Round 1 and Round 2 other than the moral pendulum swung from one extreme to the other?

    The traditional boundary, reflected in coming-of-age events like the quinceanera and the bat mitzvah, was that once childbearing age was reached, typically in the early or mid-teens, sexual relations were acceptable. The 18-year-old jailbait boundary is a 20th century phenomenon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

    For about 100 years after age of consent laws were raised to 18 in many US states, we kind of floated in this gray area* re social acceptability. It looks like it’s no longer a gray area.

    * Between Elvis’s romance with Priscilla at 14, and Jerry Lee Lewis’s relationship with Myra Gale Brown, his 13-year-old cousin, it’s clear that there was a huge window during which the major consequence was salacious gossip rather than decades in prison.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Johann Ricke

    Kinda strange, wouldn't you say, give how degenerate the rest of the society has become?

    Sex between men and men, women and women, men pretending to be women with women pretending to be men, and every other combination of unnatural acts is all A-OK okey dokey (an' don' you dare say otherwise!), but a heterosexual relationship between a man and fertile consenting young woman is the most EEEVIL thing on earth and anyone who does not denounce such relationships as the ultimate in EEVIL is also EEVIL.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Alden, @Paperback Writer

    , @Anon
    @Johann Ricke


    The traditional boundary, reflected in coming-of-age events like the quinceanera and the bat mitzvah, was that once childbearing age was reached, typically in the early or mid-teens, sexual relations were acceptable.
     
    1.) Haven't you omitted the requirement of marriage?

    2.) In Judaism, a girl reaches the status of bat mitzvah (i.e., obligation in the mitzvot) upon reaching the age of 12 BUT (a) sexual activity was never permitted before marriage and, (b) I don't know how common marriage that young ever was.

    (Note, as well, that people matured earlier in earlier eras. It has been said that adolescence as we know it is largely a recent phenomenon; in past times, by the time a child reached adolescence, he was burdened with adult responsibilities.)

    3.) Holding a public ceremony for bat mitzvah (and certainly, calling a girl to the Torah reading, etc.) is a modern progressive innovation that has no basis or precedent in traditional Judaism.

    , @IHTG
    @Johann Ricke

    You don't even have to go back that far. Jerry Seinfeld and Shoshanna!

    , @Alden
    @Johann Ricke

    I think Jerry Lee Lewis and his cousin got legally married when she was 13. It being legal for 13 year olds to get married in their state at the time.
    Elvis convinced Priscilla’s parents to agree to an engagement when she was 14. They lived together in a common law marriage state before they got officially married in Vegas. According to Priscilla they didn’t actually have intercourse till they were married.

    Early Marriage and an engagement that led to marriage is very very different from prostitution which is illegal in America no matter what the age of the prostitute and how lucrative it is.

    The other thing I’ve mentioned before. There are plenty of flourishing prostitution escort operations all over the world using girls over the age of consent in whatever country or state.

    Yet Epstein Maxwell used only 12 to 18 year olds. There was a supply of children’s size 10 girls school uniforms in his houses. Size 10 worn by 8, 9, 10 and 11 year olds.

    Being a lawyer you should know better than to come confuse the youngest age a girl could legally marry back in 1950 in whatever state, the age of consent and a blackmailing extorting underage prostitution operation.

  269. @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    Attitudes toward hooking (even underage hooking) seem to vary vastly between time and place. The first time Epstein came into the sights of the justice system everyone thought it was no big deal and he received a slap on the wrist. In round 2, for the very same acts, he became Public Enemy #1 and they were gonna lock him up and throw away the key. What changed between Round 1 and Round 2 other than the moral pendulum swung from one extreme to the other?
     
    The traditional boundary, reflected in coming-of-age events like the quinceanera and the bat mitzvah, was that once childbearing age was reached, typically in the early or mid-teens, sexual relations were acceptable. The 18-year-old jailbait boundary is a 20th century phenomenon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

    For about 100 years after age of consent laws were raised to 18 in many US states, we kind of floated in this gray area* re social acceptability. It looks like it's no longer a gray area.

    * Between Elvis's romance with Priscilla at 14, and Jerry Lee Lewis's relationship with Myra Gale Brown, his 13-year-old cousin, it's clear that there was a huge window during which the major consequence was salacious gossip rather than decades in prison.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @IHTG, @Alden

    Kinda strange, wouldn’t you say, give how degenerate the rest of the society has become?

    Sex between men and men, women and women, men pretending to be women with women pretending to be men, and every other combination of unnatural acts is all A-OK okey dokey (an’ don’ you dare say otherwise!), but a heterosexual relationship between a man and fertile consenting young woman is the most EEEVIL thing on earth and anyone who does not denounce such relationships as the ultimate in EEVIL is also EEVIL.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    Kinda strange, wouldn’t you say, give how degenerate the rest of the society has become?

    Sex between men and men, women and women, men pretending to be women with women pretending to be men, and every other combination of unnatural acts is all A-OK okey dokey (an’ don’ you dare say otherwise!), but a heterosexual relationship between a man and fertile consenting young woman is the most EEEVIL thing on earth and anyone who does not denounce such relationships as the ultimate in EEVIL is also EEVIL.
     
    The part I find most amusing is the fact that practicing Christians and other so-called conservatives are some of the most vociferous critics of what has, since the beginning of recorded history, been a fairly unremarkable male-female pairing, while pulling their punches against sodomy, cross-dressing, pornography, etc.
    , @Alden
    @Jack D

    Who profits follow the money. For the past 50 years the White liberal arts college grads who can’t jobs due to affirmative action created non profits and hired grant writers.

    The men focused on save the earth worms weeds and wolves. The women focused on save the women. Men and women focused on save the blacks from themselves..

    Perhaps that was the true intent of affirmative action. To force smart activist Whites into communism civil rights save the worms weeds wolves and mountain lions. And women’s gay black tranny and other causes.

    , @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D

    Jack, I suggest a long, hot bath. Or a walk in the forest. Or a vacay in Sequoia National Park.

    It's not just the chicks in the Epstein scandal, underaged or barely of age. It's the whole megillah. And the fact that national security may have been compromised. And that a lot of these guys were very pro-Israel, or perhaps involved with the Mossad.

  270. @Alden
    @Paperback Writer

    Hmmmm Women talk you know. I have a friend whose Dad molested her starting when she was about two years old. Or as far back as she could remember. She had no idea it was not part of normal family life. When she was 9 she and a friend were complaining together about parents rules chores bedtime etc. she said to her friend “ don’t you hate it when your Dad makes you.....,”. and the friend didn’t know what she was talking about.

    Her Dad was an inspector with the FAA a high ranking manager of the inspectors with an aeronautical engineering degree. From generations of a solid professional middle class family. Not poor White trash Dad did her brother too. Mom committed suicide when she was 13 brother 11. About a year after my friend reported it.

    Dad was never punished. No police or other investigation. Never touched her or brother again after she stood up to him. She grabbed an Air Force Officer from the nearby Air Force base as soon as she finished high school and left home.

    MEN OF UNZ MEN OF UNZ

    I can’t decide if you are incredibly naive or child molesters or at least under age porn addicts.

    There’s also the age factor. Back when her father was molesting her, my friend hated it and him. But had no idea it wasn’t normal or that there were any laws that forbade it. She’s about the age of most of the aged codgers of UNZ Perhaps that explains the MEN OF UNZ defense of Epstein Maxwell and denunciations of the girls.

    Or else you all wish you were Epstein with a harem of 14 year old underdeveloped for their age Nordic barbies to play with.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

    I don’t think many of us are “defending” Epstein. It’s just that some of us realize it won’t end with him. Their goal is a world where anytime a woman decides she’s got a grudge against you, she can yell “RAAAAPPPEEE” and you’ll get kicked out of college, fired from your job, thrown in prison. You better make sure none of your exes are angry with you, Enlightened Man.

    As for the denunciations of the girls, this is a question of whether the state should send someone to prison. That’s why people are asking if they are credible witnesses, it’s not out of a malevolent desire to be mean to them. Here’s a question to feminists and QFags, suppose you got to know these accusers. Would you let them borrow your car? Babysit your child?

  271. @Danny Clover
    @SafeNow


    When the justice-system dog recognizes an evil-doer as friendly to it, it will not bark at him with a trial. No actual trial is as extraordinary.
     
    That could well be. You certainly make a compelling point.

    Is it, though, any less egregious when the converse happens? When one or more individuals, families, or institutions are subjected-to an utter sham of a trial; a travesty of justice? When a frenzy of moral panic, hysteria, and in many cases, patently ignoble and even transparently malicious motives, drive a witch hunt and libel that destroys lives and reputations?

    Few here, I have little doubt, could not readily name at least one and likely any number of cases that he is convinced presents a clear, incontrovertible example of the very phenomenon named above. How many, however, would include in their list of such examples the "2011 Penn State scandal that led to the disgrace of football coach Joe Paterno and the conviction of his former defensive coordinator, Jerry Sandusky, for child sexual abuse"*?
    (*Quote is from the James Leroy Wilson post on Substack that I link and quote further from below.)

    How many would even so much as consider the possibility that the accusations that were so successfully (and lucratively) pursued against even Paterno, let alone Sandusky, may have, in fact, been wholly or even merely largely unsubstantiated, or even entirely false?

    If Jerry Sandusky, before he dies, were to be granted a new trial...Could that not be called The Trial of the Century?



    Mark Pendegrast and John Ziegler are two individuals who, on numerous levels, it would seem could hardly be more different from each other. One area where these two men converge extensively, however, is that of the Penn State-Sandusky-Paterno affair. Both Ziegler as well as Pendegrast have, after extensive investigation into and examination and review of the evidence (most of which at most few members of the public have even been made aware of) reached the conclusion not only that Joe Paterno but even, in all likelihood, Jerry Sandusky as well, are both innocent of the accusations and charges that have ruined their lives and legacies.

    Pendegrast presents his case in his 2017 book, The Most Hated Man in America - Jerry Sandusky and the Rush to Judgment (Sunbury Press)

    Ziegler's work on the case, which includes much written material, as well as both videos and an entire series of podcasts, With The Benefit of Hindsight, can be found at
    https://www.framingpaterno.com/
    From the home page:

    an incompetent, ratings-driven media told this story in a way not consistent with the facts, or even basic logic, and are now too invested in their fairytale to ever correct their colossal errors.
    ...
    While this site began as a defense of Paterno, after investigating the case for two years and interviewing Sandusky twice in prison, it became obvious that Sandusky himself has also been done a horrendous injustice. While this revelation will be shocking to people who have not followed the case closely, if you look at the evidence here with an open mind, there is little doubt that you will come to the same conclusion.
     
    In a May 26th post entitled, Jerry Sandusky and restoring the presumption of innocence, blogger James Leroy Wilson writes that Ziegler's With The Benefit of Hindsight podcast, "includes recordings of interviews he made during his investigation as well as live interviews with guests." and that it

    provides compelling evidence that:

    1. The eyewitness to the "shower incident" changed his story numerous times, but based on his initial story, Paterno and Penn State administrators had no cause to believe any crime took place, and are NOT GUILTY of a coverup.

    2. Sandusky himself was innocent of all charges.
     
    Wilson goes on, in the same piece, to write,

    When state prosecutors want to bring someone down, their resources seem infinite while the defense is only as good as the defendant can afford. When a case becomes a media firestorm, but the public mainly hears the State's version of things, it's hard to get an unbiased jury.

    Yes, jury members have an intellectual understanding that the accused is "innocent until proven guilty." And they may be conscientious in holding to that presumption. But when the prosecutors tell the press that the accused is a monster, and jury members had heard very little else about the accused, they'll be inclined to accept a lower standard of "proof."
     

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Penn State-Sandusky-Paterno is right up there with the Las Vegas shooter as things whose explanations don’t make sense to me. Sandusky is boning kids in the shower and no one notices? C’mon, man!

  272. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1469086520845950991

    Replies: @Alden

    Wonderful now he can serve a short time in county jail or state prison and become even more of a martyr. He can write or have someone write for him “ Letters from a Cook County Jail.” Just as Saint MLK wrote or had written Letters from the Birmingham Jail.

  273. @Jack D
    @Johann Ricke

    Kinda strange, wouldn't you say, give how degenerate the rest of the society has become?

    Sex between men and men, women and women, men pretending to be women with women pretending to be men, and every other combination of unnatural acts is all A-OK okey dokey (an' don' you dare say otherwise!), but a heterosexual relationship between a man and fertile consenting young woman is the most EEEVIL thing on earth and anyone who does not denounce such relationships as the ultimate in EEVIL is also EEVIL.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Alden, @Paperback Writer

    Kinda strange, wouldn’t you say, give how degenerate the rest of the society has become?

    Sex between men and men, women and women, men pretending to be women with women pretending to be men, and every other combination of unnatural acts is all A-OK okey dokey (an’ don’ you dare say otherwise!), but a heterosexual relationship between a man and fertile consenting young woman is the most EEEVIL thing on earth and anyone who does not denounce such relationships as the ultimate in EEVIL is also EEVIL.

    The part I find most amusing is the fact that practicing Christians and other so-called conservatives are some of the most vociferous critics of what has, since the beginning of recorded history, been a fairly unremarkable male-female pairing, while pulling their punches against sodomy, cross-dressing, pornography, etc.

  274. @Jack D
    @Johann Ricke

    Kinda strange, wouldn't you say, give how degenerate the rest of the society has become?

    Sex between men and men, women and women, men pretending to be women with women pretending to be men, and every other combination of unnatural acts is all A-OK okey dokey (an' don' you dare say otherwise!), but a heterosexual relationship between a man and fertile consenting young woman is the most EEEVIL thing on earth and anyone who does not denounce such relationships as the ultimate in EEVIL is also EEVIL.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Alden, @Paperback Writer

    Who profits follow the money. For the past 50 years the White liberal arts college grads who can’t jobs due to affirmative action created non profits and hired grant writers.

    The men focused on save the earth worms weeds and wolves. The women focused on save the women. Men and women focused on save the blacks from themselves..

    Perhaps that was the true intent of affirmative action. To force smart activist Whites into communism civil rights save the worms weeds wolves and mountain lions. And women’s gay black tranny and other causes.

  275. @Danny Clover
    @Brutusale


    The defiling of shiksa princesses (too young to be goddesses) doesn’t quite impinge on Jackie Boy’s conscience.
     
    Can you cite any evidence that the positions JackD has taken concerning the Epstein case would be any different had his alleged victims been Jewish?

    Conversely, imagine if all of Epstein's alleged victims had been Jewish but Epstein himself had not been. How differently might you and anyone else who presently considers Epstein as little, if at all better than a child-rapist view the case then?

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘Conversely, imagine if all of Epstein’s alleged victims had been Jewish but Epstein himself had not been. How differently might you and anyone else who presently considers Epstein as little, if at all better than a child-rapist view the case then?’

    ? Why would that make any difference?

    • Replies: @Danny Clover
    @Colin Wright



    ‘Conversely, imagine if all of Epstein’s alleged victims had been Jewish but Epstein himself had not been. How differently might you and anyone else who presently considers Epstein as little, if at all better than a child-rapist view the case then?’
     
    ? Why would that make any difference?
     
    I was referring, specifically, to those individuals who, in their condemnations of Epstein, emphasize his Jewishness and the non-Jewishness of his accusers and alleged victims. I thought I had made that quite clear. Do you not find it likely that were that contrast (i.e, Jewish vs. non-Jewish) between accused and accusers inverted, the individuals to whom I referred would view the case in a different, and even correspondingly inverted light?

    Incidentally, do we even know that there are, in fact, no Jews at all included among Epstein's accusers and alleged victims?

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  276. Anon[341] • Disclaimer says:
    @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    Attitudes toward hooking (even underage hooking) seem to vary vastly between time and place. The first time Epstein came into the sights of the justice system everyone thought it was no big deal and he received a slap on the wrist. In round 2, for the very same acts, he became Public Enemy #1 and they were gonna lock him up and throw away the key. What changed between Round 1 and Round 2 other than the moral pendulum swung from one extreme to the other?
     
    The traditional boundary, reflected in coming-of-age events like the quinceanera and the bat mitzvah, was that once childbearing age was reached, typically in the early or mid-teens, sexual relations were acceptable. The 18-year-old jailbait boundary is a 20th century phenomenon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

    For about 100 years after age of consent laws were raised to 18 in many US states, we kind of floated in this gray area* re social acceptability. It looks like it's no longer a gray area.

    * Between Elvis's romance with Priscilla at 14, and Jerry Lee Lewis's relationship with Myra Gale Brown, his 13-year-old cousin, it's clear that there was a huge window during which the major consequence was salacious gossip rather than decades in prison.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @IHTG, @Alden

    The traditional boundary, reflected in coming-of-age events like the quinceanera and the bat mitzvah, was that once childbearing age was reached, typically in the early or mid-teens, sexual relations were acceptable.

    1.) Haven’t you omitted the requirement of marriage?

    2.) In Judaism, a girl reaches the status of bat mitzvah (i.e., obligation in the mitzvot) upon reaching the age of 12 BUT (a) sexual activity was never permitted before marriage and, (b) I don’t know how common marriage that young ever was.

    (Note, as well, that people matured earlier in earlier eras. It has been said that adolescence as we know it is largely a recent phenomenon; in past times, by the time a child reached adolescence, he was burdened with adult responsibilities.)

    3.) Holding a public ceremony for bat mitzvah (and certainly, calling a girl to the Torah reading, etc.) is a modern progressive innovation that has no basis or precedent in traditional Judaism.

  277. @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    Attitudes toward hooking (even underage hooking) seem to vary vastly between time and place. The first time Epstein came into the sights of the justice system everyone thought it was no big deal and he received a slap on the wrist. In round 2, for the very same acts, he became Public Enemy #1 and they were gonna lock him up and throw away the key. What changed between Round 1 and Round 2 other than the moral pendulum swung from one extreme to the other?
     
    The traditional boundary, reflected in coming-of-age events like the quinceanera and the bat mitzvah, was that once childbearing age was reached, typically in the early or mid-teens, sexual relations were acceptable. The 18-year-old jailbait boundary is a 20th century phenomenon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

    For about 100 years after age of consent laws were raised to 18 in many US states, we kind of floated in this gray area* re social acceptability. It looks like it's no longer a gray area.

    * Between Elvis's romance with Priscilla at 14, and Jerry Lee Lewis's relationship with Myra Gale Brown, his 13-year-old cousin, it's clear that there was a huge window during which the major consequence was salacious gossip rather than decades in prison.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @IHTG, @Alden

    You don’t even have to go back that far. Jerry Seinfeld and Shoshanna!

  278. @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    You just clipped and pasted something about 11-14 year olds. And the guy who spent the summer of 2019 making comments about sex should be legal with 10 and 11 year olds turned out to be a sex offender with a long criminal record for it.

    Sex with girls under a certain age is illegal in every American state and territory is illegal. The age seems to differ between 16 and 18. There are exemptions if one party is just 3 or 4 years older than the girl. But not if the man is 10, 20 or 40 years older.

    The MEN OF UNZ are adamant that the age of consent laws should be repealed so that creepy old perverts ( like yourselves???) should have access to teen and younger girls.

    27 years a probation officer mostly rapes and other sex crimes I developed an instinct about these things.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @David In TN

    You, Alden, said:

    I know the MEN OF UNZ believe all girls on their 11 or 12th birthday are mindless bodies to be used by any man who wants them.

    Then I asked you:

    Just curious: Can you provide a quote from any one of your “MEN OF UNZ” to that effect?

    Then you answered:

    You just clipped and pasted something about 11-14 year olds.

    I knew that had something to do with your rant, and that is why I asked. (It’s called cross examination, and I got the answer I wanted.) Your answer allows me to prove that your implication that I somehow approve of abusing girls is incorrect.

    What I had done was clip and paste a definition of hebephilia:

    “Hebephilia is the strong, persistent sexual interest by adults in pubescent children who are in early adolescence, typically ages 11–14 and showing Tanner stages 2 to 3 of physical development,” according to Wikipedia (the font of all knowledge) and footnoted to: Stephens S, Seto MC (2015). Phenix A, Hoberman H (eds.). Sexual Offending: Predisposing Antecedents, Assessments and Management. Springer. pp. 29–41.

    I did this to show that media and commenters have been incorrect when they have labeled the Epstein/Maxwell stuff pedophilia, which they have done. I was describing reality, not condoning it. Do you understand the difference?

    The triplets and perhaps others fall into the hebephilia category.

    Other Epstein/Maxwell girls fit the ephebophilia category, ages 15-19. Those are the ages of teenaged prostitutes, including one I knew when I was a teenager myself.

    (I know firsthand how teenagers can screw up their lives with sex: One of my sisters got pregnant when she was 14. Witnessing that as a young boy, I learned to be careful with sex, but you might find that hard to believe, having accused me of being a pervert and just now virtually labeling me as a pedophile/hebephile/ephebophile or whatever pleases you. Sex is fun and powerful and requires care and responsibility; it is not something for adults to do with teenagers. )

    The Epstein/Maxwell victims were enticed to become prostitutes. My point is that this a common occurrance. I do not condone it. I simply wonder if we are all distracted by something that is bad but not the whole story of the monster on trial now and the monster who is supposedly dead. I suspect the prostitution was part of something bigger, but — please understand — I completely agree with you that what the men did to the girls is a crime and a terrible thing.

    You wrote:

    The MEN OF UNZ are adamant that the age of consent laws should be repealed so that creepy old perverts ( like yourselves???) should have access to teen and younger girls.

    No, not this “MAN OF UNZ.” You recently wrote that you and other women say things about individual men whereas, you claim we talk about women in general. Well, can you see what you are doing to me now? You are accusing me along with all the others of wanting to schtup with underage, illegal girls.

    You are, quite frankly, hysterical and full of shit. The fact that you worked in some form of law enforcement is frightening.

    • Agree: acementhead
    • Replies: @ic1000
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Thanks for the reply, Buzz Mohawk.

    , @Danny Clover
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Buzz,

    Alden has said herself that she enjoys "trolling the MEN OF UNZ". Don't let her get to you. Best to treat her over-the-top rants as entertainment, good for some comic relief.

  279. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Alden

    You, Alden, said:


    I know the MEN OF UNZ believe all girls on their 11 or 12th birthday are mindless bodies to be used by any man who wants them.
     
    Then I asked you:

    Just curious: Can you provide a quote from any one of your “MEN OF UNZ” to that effect?
     
    Then you answered:

    You just clipped and pasted something about 11-14 year olds.
     
    I knew that had something to do with your rant, and that is why I asked. (It's called cross examination, and I got the answer I wanted.) Your answer allows me to prove that your implication that I somehow approve of abusing girls is incorrect.

    What I had done was clip and paste a definition of hebephilia:


    “Hebephilia is the strong, persistent sexual interest by adults in pubescent children who are in early adolescence, typically ages 11–14 and showing Tanner stages 2 to 3 of physical development,” according to Wikipedia (the font of all knowledge) and footnoted to: Stephens S, Seto MC (2015). Phenix A, Hoberman H (eds.). Sexual Offending: Predisposing Antecedents, Assessments and Management. Springer. pp. 29–41.
     
    I did this to show that media and commenters have been incorrect when they have labeled the Epstein/Maxwell stuff pedophilia, which they have done. I was describing reality, not condoning it. Do you understand the difference?

    The triplets and perhaps others fall into the hebephilia category.

    Other Epstein/Maxwell girls fit the ephebophilia category, ages 15-19. Those are the ages of teenaged prostitutes, including one I knew when I was a teenager myself.

    (I know firsthand how teenagers can screw up their lives with sex: One of my sisters got pregnant when she was 14. Witnessing that as a young boy, I learned to be careful with sex, but you might find that hard to believe, having accused me of being a pervert and just now virtually labeling me as a pedophile/hebephile/ephebophile or whatever pleases you. Sex is fun and powerful and requires care and responsibility; it is not something for adults to do with teenagers. )

    The Epstein/Maxwell victims were enticed to become prostitutes. My point is that this a common occurrance. I do not condone it. I simply wonder if we are all distracted by something that is bad but not the whole story of the monster on trial now and the monster who is supposedly dead. I suspect the prostitution was part of something bigger, but -- please understand -- I completely agree with you that what the men did to the girls is a crime and a terrible thing.

    You wrote:


    The MEN OF UNZ are adamant that the age of consent laws should be repealed so that creepy old perverts ( like yourselves???) should have access to teen and younger girls.
     
    No, not this "MAN OF UNZ." You recently wrote that you and other women say things about individual men whereas, you claim we talk about women in general. Well, can you see what you are doing to me now? You are accusing me along with all the others of wanting to schtup with underage, illegal girls.

    You are, quite frankly, hysterical and full of shit. The fact that you worked in some form of law enforcement is frightening.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Danny Clover

    Thanks for the reply, Buzz Mohawk.

  280. @Alden
    @Buzz Mohawk

    You just clipped and pasted something about 11-14 year olds. And the guy who spent the summer of 2019 making comments about sex should be legal with 10 and 11 year olds turned out to be a sex offender with a long criminal record for it.

    Sex with girls under a certain age is illegal in every American state and territory is illegal. The age seems to differ between 16 and 18. There are exemptions if one party is just 3 or 4 years older than the girl. But not if the man is 10, 20 or 40 years older.

    The MEN OF UNZ are adamant that the age of consent laws should be repealed so that creepy old perverts ( like yourselves???) should have access to teen and younger girls.

    27 years a probation officer mostly rapes and other sex crimes I developed an instinct about these things.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @David In TN

    Epstein didn’t think sex with 14-16 year old girls was (or should be) a crime. Nor (probably) do many of the rich people he socialized with.

    Epstein attorney Alan Dershowitz wrote an Op-Ed for the LA Times around 1997 advocating for the age of consent being reduced from 18 to 15.

  281. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Alden

    You, Alden, said:


    I know the MEN OF UNZ believe all girls on their 11 or 12th birthday are mindless bodies to be used by any man who wants them.
     
    Then I asked you:

    Just curious: Can you provide a quote from any one of your “MEN OF UNZ” to that effect?
     
    Then you answered:

    You just clipped and pasted something about 11-14 year olds.
     
    I knew that had something to do with your rant, and that is why I asked. (It's called cross examination, and I got the answer I wanted.) Your answer allows me to prove that your implication that I somehow approve of abusing girls is incorrect.

    What I had done was clip and paste a definition of hebephilia:


    “Hebephilia is the strong, persistent sexual interest by adults in pubescent children who are in early adolescence, typically ages 11–14 and showing Tanner stages 2 to 3 of physical development,” according to Wikipedia (the font of all knowledge) and footnoted to: Stephens S, Seto MC (2015). Phenix A, Hoberman H (eds.). Sexual Offending: Predisposing Antecedents, Assessments and Management. Springer. pp. 29–41.
     
    I did this to show that media and commenters have been incorrect when they have labeled the Epstein/Maxwell stuff pedophilia, which they have done. I was describing reality, not condoning it. Do you understand the difference?

    The triplets and perhaps others fall into the hebephilia category.

    Other Epstein/Maxwell girls fit the ephebophilia category, ages 15-19. Those are the ages of teenaged prostitutes, including one I knew when I was a teenager myself.

    (I know firsthand how teenagers can screw up their lives with sex: One of my sisters got pregnant when she was 14. Witnessing that as a young boy, I learned to be careful with sex, but you might find that hard to believe, having accused me of being a pervert and just now virtually labeling me as a pedophile/hebephile/ephebophile or whatever pleases you. Sex is fun and powerful and requires care and responsibility; it is not something for adults to do with teenagers. )

    The Epstein/Maxwell victims were enticed to become prostitutes. My point is that this a common occurrance. I do not condone it. I simply wonder if we are all distracted by something that is bad but not the whole story of the monster on trial now and the monster who is supposedly dead. I suspect the prostitution was part of something bigger, but -- please understand -- I completely agree with you that what the men did to the girls is a crime and a terrible thing.

    You wrote:


    The MEN OF UNZ are adamant that the age of consent laws should be repealed so that creepy old perverts ( like yourselves???) should have access to teen and younger girls.
     
    No, not this "MAN OF UNZ." You recently wrote that you and other women say things about individual men whereas, you claim we talk about women in general. Well, can you see what you are doing to me now? You are accusing me along with all the others of wanting to schtup with underage, illegal girls.

    You are, quite frankly, hysterical and full of shit. The fact that you worked in some form of law enforcement is frightening.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Danny Clover

    Buzz,

    Alden has said herself that she enjoys “trolling the MEN OF UNZ”. Don’t let her get to you. Best to treat her over-the-top rants as entertainment, good for some comic relief.

    • Thanks: Buzz Mohawk
  282. @Colin Wright
    @Danny Clover

    'Conversely, imagine if all of Epstein’s alleged victims had been Jewish but Epstein himself had not been. How differently might you and anyone else who presently considers Epstein as little, if at all better than a child-rapist view the case then?'

    ? Why would that make any difference?

    Replies: @Danny Clover

    ‘Conversely, imagine if all of Epstein’s alleged victims had been Jewish but Epstein himself had not been. How differently might you and anyone else who presently considers Epstein as little, if at all better than a child-rapist view the case then?’

    ? Why would that make any difference?

    I was referring, specifically, to those individuals who, in their condemnations of Epstein, emphasize his Jewishness and the non-Jewishness of his accusers and alleged victims. I thought I had made that quite clear. Do you not find it likely that were that contrast (i.e, Jewish vs. non-Jewish) between accused and accusers inverted, the individuals to whom I referred would view the case in a different, and even correspondingly inverted light?

    Incidentally, do we even know that there are, in fact, no Jews at all included among Epstein’s accusers and alleged victims?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Danny Clover

    'I was referring, specifically, to those individuals who, in their condemnations of Epstein, emphasize his Jewishness and the non-Jewishness of his accusers and alleged victims...'

    I'd certainly be quite willing to be one of those individuals if the occasion warranted it.

    However, here's a point that for reason keeps eluding people.

    Two wrongs don't make a right. Whatever some Jews manage to justify doing to some gentiles doesn't justify other gentiles doing the same to other Jews.

  283. @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    Attitudes toward hooking (even underage hooking) seem to vary vastly between time and place. The first time Epstein came into the sights of the justice system everyone thought it was no big deal and he received a slap on the wrist. In round 2, for the very same acts, he became Public Enemy #1 and they were gonna lock him up and throw away the key. What changed between Round 1 and Round 2 other than the moral pendulum swung from one extreme to the other?
     
    The traditional boundary, reflected in coming-of-age events like the quinceanera and the bat mitzvah, was that once childbearing age was reached, typically in the early or mid-teens, sexual relations were acceptable. The 18-year-old jailbait boundary is a 20th century phenomenon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

    For about 100 years after age of consent laws were raised to 18 in many US states, we kind of floated in this gray area* re social acceptability. It looks like it's no longer a gray area.

    * Between Elvis's romance with Priscilla at 14, and Jerry Lee Lewis's relationship with Myra Gale Brown, his 13-year-old cousin, it's clear that there was a huge window during which the major consequence was salacious gossip rather than decades in prison.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @IHTG, @Alden

    I think Jerry Lee Lewis and his cousin got legally married when she was 13. It being legal for 13 year olds to get married in their state at the time.
    Elvis convinced Priscilla’s parents to agree to an engagement when she was 14. They lived together in a common law marriage state before they got officially married in Vegas. According to Priscilla they didn’t actually have intercourse till they were married.

    Early Marriage and an engagement that led to marriage is very very different from prostitution which is illegal in America no matter what the age of the prostitute and how lucrative it is.

    The other thing I’ve mentioned before. There are plenty of flourishing prostitution escort operations all over the world using girls over the age of consent in whatever country or state.

    Yet Epstein Maxwell used only 12 to 18 year olds. There was a supply of children’s size 10 girls school uniforms in his houses. Size 10 worn by 8, 9, 10 and 11 year olds.

    Being a lawyer you should know better than to come confuse the youngest age a girl could legally marry back in 1950 in whatever state, the age of consent and a blackmailing extorting underage prostitution operation.

  284. @Jack D
    @Johann Ricke

    Kinda strange, wouldn't you say, give how degenerate the rest of the society has become?

    Sex between men and men, women and women, men pretending to be women with women pretending to be men, and every other combination of unnatural acts is all A-OK okey dokey (an' don' you dare say otherwise!), but a heterosexual relationship between a man and fertile consenting young woman is the most EEEVIL thing on earth and anyone who does not denounce such relationships as the ultimate in EEVIL is also EEVIL.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Alden, @Paperback Writer

    Jack, I suggest a long, hot bath. Or a walk in the forest. Or a vacay in Sequoia National Park.

    It’s not just the chicks in the Epstein scandal, underaged or barely of age. It’s the whole megillah. And the fact that national security may have been compromised. And that a lot of these guys were very pro-Israel, or perhaps involved with the Mossad.

  285. @Danny Clover
    @Colin Wright



    ‘Conversely, imagine if all of Epstein’s alleged victims had been Jewish but Epstein himself had not been. How differently might you and anyone else who presently considers Epstein as little, if at all better than a child-rapist view the case then?’
     
    ? Why would that make any difference?
     
    I was referring, specifically, to those individuals who, in their condemnations of Epstein, emphasize his Jewishness and the non-Jewishness of his accusers and alleged victims. I thought I had made that quite clear. Do you not find it likely that were that contrast (i.e, Jewish vs. non-Jewish) between accused and accusers inverted, the individuals to whom I referred would view the case in a different, and even correspondingly inverted light?

    Incidentally, do we even know that there are, in fact, no Jews at all included among Epstein's accusers and alleged victims?

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘I was referring, specifically, to those individuals who, in their condemnations of Epstein, emphasize his Jewishness and the non-Jewishness of his accusers and alleged victims…’

    I’d certainly be quite willing to be one of those individuals if the occasion warranted it.

    However, here’s a point that for reason keeps eluding people.

    Two wrongs don’t make a right. Whatever some Jews manage to justify doing to some gentiles doesn’t justify other gentiles doing the same to other Jews.

  286. @Danny Clover
    Mr. Sailer,

    I have made at least three attempts now to post a rather lengthy comment using the same pseudonymic handle and fictitious email that I am using for this submission. Each time that I have submitted my comment, the page would merely refresh, leaving no trace of my comment.

    Perhaps you could be so kind as to check any spam filters that you have access to?

    I would appreciate that.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @J.Ross

    If your long comment had a URL in it, it could be the apostrophe bug.

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/bugs-suggestions/#comment-4520946

  287. @Jack D
    @ic1000

    If you read Epstein's wikipedia biography, he seems to do a lot of failing upward - he gets a job as a HS teacher (despite not being qualified) and gets fired from that and this leads to a job at Bear Stearns (despite not being qualified for that either). Etc. He seems to go thru a number of rounds of this (the luck of the Irish, I guess) until by 1987 he is working for a crook named Hoffenberg who is paying him $300k/year for "consulting". While this was nice money, it was obviously not private jet and private island money.

    His big break comes with Wexner:


    In 1986, Epstein met Wexner through their mutual acquaintances, insurance executive Robert Meister and his wife, in Palm Beach, Florida. A year later, Epstein became Wexner's financial adviser and served as his right-hand man. Within the year, Epstein had sorted out Wexner's entangled finances.[31][59] In July 1991, Wexner granted Epstein full power of attorney over his affairs. The power of attorney allowed Epstein to hire people, sign checks, buy and sell properties, borrow money, and do anything else of a legally binding nature on Wexner's behalf.[60]

    By 1995, Epstein was a director of the Wexner Foundation and Wexner Heritage Foundation. He was also the president of Wexner's Property, which developed part of the town of New Albany outside Columbus, Ohio, where Wexner lived. Epstein made millions in fees by managing Wexner's financial affairs.
     

    Whether he was also supplying Wexner with girls or whatever I cannot say. But on one level I can believe it - a clever and energetic and street smart guy like Epstein comes in and sorts out his (financial) affairs and makes him even richer and he is grateful and considers him to be a surrogate son (Wexner does not marry or have children until several years later) and rewards him accordingly. Wexner appears to be the key to Epsteins wealth.

    Replies: @ic1000

    Jack D, I generally appreciate your comments at iSteve.

    This morning I finally got around to Googling “Epstein wealth.” After reading a few somewhat-investigative articles, I returned to this thread.

    The comment of yours that I’m belatedly replying to would merit a shrug if it was contributed by a below-median commenter. But you’re a smart guy and a well-read guy. Why go to the trouble of writing something that is deeply disingenuous and misleading?

    Example. Yes (duh), “Wexner appears to be the key to Epstein’s wealth.” From Mark Hodge’s article in The Sun — yes, you’re actually being outshone by that The Sun:

    [The Wexner-Epstein] relationship was described as “weird” by one Wall Street insider, who told New York Magazine: “It’s just not typical for someone of such enormous wealth to all of a sudden give his money to some guy most people have never heard of.”

    …Their relationship is said to have ended around 2007 and – following the sex trafficker’s death last year – Wexner admitted Epstein had “misappropriated” \$46m of his fortune. Wexner reportedly never took legal action against Jeffrey Epstein.

    So this shrewd and successful billionaire meets a guy that the slightest due diligence will reveal as untrustworthy. He likes him! Gives him tens of millions in Manhattan real estate gift, and an indeterminate sum in fiduciary fees along with carte blanche for managing his fortune. When the house of cards collapses, Wexner allows that, yeah, in retrospect, Epstein misappropriated [sic] at least \$46 million more.

    Madoff’s clients’ greed and gullibility appear to be the keys to Madoff making his millions. What, exactly, were Wexner’s motives? I can think of a few, but none are of the Madoff nothing-to-see-here variety.

    Of course, this is only one of the many highly queer aspects of the Epstein saga — including, now, Comey fille‘s intense uninterest in whatever a curious investigator might prise out of Ms. Maxwell. It has become nigh-impossible to discredit any particular unhinged Conspiracy Theory, except to credit another one in its stead.

  288. @Danny Clover
    Mr. Sailer,

    I have made at least three attempts now to post a rather lengthy comment using the same pseudonymic handle and fictitious email that I am using for this submission. Each time that I have submitted my comment, the page would merely refresh, leaving no trace of my comment.

    Perhaps you could be so kind as to check any spam filters that you have access to?

    I would appreciate that.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @J.Ross

    To add to what AM said, more tag, archive dot today.

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