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Only 0.72% of Baseball Employees Have COVID Antibodies, Implying Herd Immunity Is Far Off
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The Stanford team that has been arguing since March that the American populace is closer to herd immunity than you might think has done a new survey of coronavirus antibodies in the blood to measure percentage ever infected. This time, however, to their surprise and disappointment, they came up with a quite small number when they measured 5,603 people linked to Major League Baseball, an enterprise/industry that is widely distributed around North America, with stadiums typically downtown but with players and staff generally living in the suburbs. Of the 30 major league franchises, 26 participated. From the L.A. Times:

Fewer than 1% of MLB employees test positive for COVID-19 antibodies

By BILL SHAIKIN STAFF WRITER
MAY 10, 20203:26 PM

The coronavirus outbreak largely has spared the baseball world, with data released Sunday to prove it.

Of the 5,603 major league employees who submitted to what researchers called the largest national antibody study to date, only 60 tested positive, researchers said Sunday.

There are 30 major league teams with, say, 40 players on the 40-man roster (that includes some players who go back and forth as needed between the majors and the minors). So that’s only 1200 big league ballplayers at most. So most of the testees were not big league players but were white collar office workers, coaches, grounds crews, etc etc.

This baseball study was voluntary but suggested by franchise managements to their employees and there was a fairly high compliance rate with an average of over 200 employees being tested among 26 of the 30 franchises.

Employees of Major League Baseball are not randomly representative of the US population, of course. But on the other hand, you can picture who they are in your head and probably not be too far off. Baseball and movie theaters are useful toy industries for analysis because there is a lot of data readily available about them.

The researchers announced an estimated positive rate of 0.72% after adjusting the results for what they said were false positives and false negatives.

Angels employees had the highest positive rate among the 26 teams that participated, but the relatively small number of tests administered to each team — 123 to the Angels — made it difficult to draw conclusions, said lead researcher Jay Bhattacharya, professor of medicine at Stanford. He did say the rate of positive tests among Angels employees was lower than the infection rate in the local community.

Still, the minute percentage of positive tests provided a data point as scientists determine how wide the coronavirus has spread within the United States. Bhattacharya said he expected a larger positive rate.

“The epidemic has not gotten very far,” he said. “We have quite a way to go.”

However, in other antibody studies limited to specific locales, the positive rates have ranged from 2.8% in Santa Clara County to 24.7% in New York City. The researchers in the Major League Baseball study noted their participants were not representative of the population as a whole: 95% under the age of 65, 80% white, 60% male and 100% employed.

So 0.72% is a long way from Herd Immunity.

From the New York Times:

While the percentage of Los Angeles Angels employees with positive test was the highest among teams, the error margin is too high to draw results because just 123 tests were included from the team. …

Sixty people tested positive in the raw data, and the figured was adjusted to about 42 to account for false positives and false negatives.

So they originally came up with 60 positive tests out of about 5603 (1.1%), but after accounting for estimated false positives and false negatives, they figured their best guess for the real ratio was 42/5603 or 0.7%.

Over 95% of the participants were under 65 and few reported comorbidities, according to Stanford medical student Bianca Mulaney, who authored the study. …

Presumably, baseball players and baseball employees tend to be above average in general competence (seeing as how they tend to possess desirable jobs that even George Costanza would go to work for) and in health consciousness. On the other hand, I would imagine they are fairly popular, gregarious, and well-traveled, all traits that correlated with the early spread of CV back when it was Tom Hanks Disease.

Big league ballplayers, however, are usually forbidden in their contracts from going skiing (but not golfing). They tend to spend a fair amount of time outdoors in the winter playing golf and working out. Then the players were called to Florida and Arizona in February to begin Spring Training. I imagine big league ballplayers take public mass transit about once per decade (although as Colin Quinn admitted, John Rocker had been on the 7 Train).

Mulaney said the prevalence of positive tests for antibodies was higher in areas that have been harder hit by the virus, such as New York, and lower in less-impacted areas, such as Ohio.

I don’t see the paper available anywhere on the Internet. I can’t find the date of the testing, although I would guess the second half of April. And remember it can take a couple of weeks for antibodies to emerge, so the effective date of testing might be the first half of April.

Baseball spring training was shut down on March 13.

All in all, this is a pretty interesting Admission Against Interest, because this team of Bhattacharya, Bendavid, Ioannidis, etc had been vocal since March that the infection was more widespread than admitted, and thus less dangerous.

On the other hand, I cannot recall reading about anybody affiliated currently affiliated with an MLB club dying of the novel disease. In fact, I’m not sure if any non-fringe MLB player has even been said to be infected yet.

 
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  1. “So 0.72% is a long way from Herd Immunity.”

    Irrelevant. Young athletic men, prime of life, immune to the boomer remover.

    CoronaHoax.

    • Agree: Currier House
    • LOL: Anonymous (n)
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Thanks for your intelligent, insightful, completely non-kneejerk comment.

    Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Thoughts, @CantSleep, @theMann

    , @AnotherDad
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    #DataAverse

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    , @Neoconned
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Coronavirus does exist BUT in the last few weeks I've been leaning towards the"coronahoax" crowd myself. The whole Fauci etc crowd have been proven to be chicken littles and have almost caused Great Depression 2.0 just to stop Trump from being elected.

    If the spooks can determine that a "rogue faction" of our govt and/or military is behind this we need quiet "wet works" type CIA executions of the perps involved.

    In the last week or two it seems that many even in the Trump administration are even leaning towards the "leaked from a bioweapons lab" angle....

    We'll see.

    , @Anonymous (n)
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    I think it's time you change your handle to Je Suis Troll in keeping to the spirit of your comments.

    Replies: @BenKenobi

    , @Dr. DoomNGloom
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen


    So 0.72% is a long way from Herd Immunity.”

    Irrelevant. Young athletic men, prime of life, immune to the boomer remover.
     
    not so much for the front office and staff, who must have been about 75% of the sample

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvEOs0eSmOw
  2. I am suppose to believe these numbers. Why? Past performance?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @newrouter

    Admission Against Interest.

    Replies: @newrouter, @newrouter, @HA, @I, Libertine

  3. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "So 0.72% is a long way from Herd Immunity."

    Irrelevant. Young athletic men, prime of life, immune to the boomer remover.

    CoronaHoax.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @AnotherDad, @Neoconned, @Anonymous (n), @Dr. DoomNGloom

    Thanks for your intelligent, insightful, completely non-kneejerk comment.

    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    @Steve Sailer

    Don't be bitchy, Sailer. The N is tiny, so no conclusions can be drawn from this puny sample. Young, athletic men in great shape likely repel the kungflu without developing antibodies.

    Feel better now?

    (I can't wait til Limbaugh appropriates 'mouth diaper' tomorrow or later this week, depending on his chemo regime)

    CoronaHoax.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @AnotherDad, @Muggles

    , @Thoughts
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve we dont develop herd immunity from the flu.

    Five years from today you will look back at those types of comments and go...that was insightful!

    Was reading about Hong Kong Flu and talking to my dad who had it back in the Navy and I am even more convinced this is a hoax.

    Ftr, my dad thinks I already had Corona...And if that was what I had in November then it was the lightest Flu of my life (international travl nov 2nd two week incub)

    However, we both agreed that this is definitely shaping up to be an assasination attempt on Trump

    Trump better not go to a hospital with the sniffles...

    Furthermore same with Biden if he wins...Blind Gossip said Biden has to step down half way through the term and let his vice take over...Corona plays into that perfectly

    It's a hoax guys

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon, @Hippopotamusdrome

    , @CantSleep
    @Steve Sailer

    OT:

    Steve, any comment on Joel Gilbert's Trayvon Hoax documentary and the allegations within? Have you seen this stuff yet?!? I read you regularly and as far as I can remember and via search you haven't touched on this. I just stumbled upon it with Crump in the news again, but it has been out for months. While not the biggest fan of the filmmaker's style, his evidence for Rachel Jeantel being a completely fabricated witness in the Zimmerman trial is incredibly compelling, I would say downright convincing.

    As far as I can tell Zimmerman's recently filed lawsuit should be a slam dunk and meanwhile the media is in almost total blackout/denial on the story.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAw5ykIPOBM

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @theMann
    @Steve Sailer

    For all of Je Suis’s tactlessness, he does have a point, sort of.


    Top level Jocks are almost super-humanly healthy people, and they don’t typically get Flu shots. No H1N1 Flu variant shot, no testing positive for “Corona” virus. It is like a miracle how that works out.

    Replies: @HA, @Currier House, @anon

  4. The real problem, as you know, is people in the skiing world. We have an approximately 100% rate of infection, and we travel, internationally even (when we can.)

    All seriousness aside, I wouldn’t use MLB employees as statistical representations of all Americans.

  5. If you can’t get to a ball park to watch a baseball game on a sunny day the next best thing would be to listen to a well announced game on the radio. Just make up games and I will listen. No need to put any players or fans at risk.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Buffalo Joe

    Carl Yastrzemski just slammed up against the Green Monster, caught the fly ball that was hit off Sandy Koufax by Micky Mantle and threw it to Brooks Robinson at third. Now Pete Rose is caught in a pickle between Robinson at third and Yogi Berra at the plate.

    Now Rose slides head-first and scores a run. He bet on a win.

    How's that for your made up game? Give me a console and I'll provide crowd noises.

    Replies: @SafeNow, @Buffalo Joe

    , @anon
    @Buffalo Joe

    If you can’t get to a ball park to watch a baseball game...

    Just stream one from South Korea.

    https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/kbo-scores-odds-schedule-how-to-watch-live-stream-tv-channel-game-times-as-baseball-returns-to-korea/

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Buffalo Joe

    In all seriousness, they should just rerun classic games in all the sports. It's actually more entertaining than you would think. Even if you saw the game years ago you probably forgot who won or how.

    For example, I remember watching reruns of the 1984 Laker-Celtic series a couple years ago. It was oddly suspenseful because I couldn't remember who won, say, game three or four. Some of the best basketball ever.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Steve Sailer
    @Buffalo Joe

    Ronald Reagan used to have a job as a remote baseball announcer on the radio. He'd get a telegram with the outcome of each batter, then make up the balls and strikes in between.

    Replies: @Morris Applebaum IV, @Buffalo Joe, @Stan Adams

    , @BigJimSportCamper
    @Buffalo Joe

    Reminds me of Jack Nicholson calling an imaginary game for his fellow asylum inmates in One Flew Over a Cuckoo's Nest,

  6. @newrouter
    I am suppose to believe these numbers. Why? Past performance?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Admission Against Interest.

    • Agree: Bill
    • Replies: @newrouter
    @Steve Sailer

    "We Sent Them Samples Of A Goat, A Papaya & A Pheasant": Tanzanian President Catches WHO In Epic Lie
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/we-sent-them-samples-goat-papaya-pheasant-tanzanian-president-catches-who-epic-lie

    , @newrouter
    @Steve Sailer

    Coronavirus: India cancels order for 'faulty' China rapid test kits

    https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-india-cancels-order-faulty-042432153.html

    Replies: @Brás Cubas

    , @HA
    @Steve Sailer

    "Admission Against Interest."

    You previously noted some criticism against the Stanford group's approach by Gelman and Cochran and others. Perhaps Ioannidis et al. adjusted their methodology, and the lower prevalence in this new study is one result of that.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @I, Libertine
    @Steve Sailer

    I hate to be that guy, but I am. “Admission against interest” is a redundancy. An admission is by definition against the speaker’s interest. We are taught in law school to avoid it ( or we were in my day), but few of us comply. We use the term “declaration against interest “ for speakers who are not directly involved in the controversy, and therefore couldn’t make admissions.

    I know the way out. No need to call security.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Charles Erwin Wilson

  7. So 0.72% is a long way from Herd Immunity.

    Exactly.

    I’d guess the population wide number is a little higher–my guess would be maybe 10 million Americans–3%. Could be 1% could be 5% but that’s the rough ballpark.

    This–blindingly obvious–reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that’s why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks, who then roll out these ridiculous statements.

    Weird to me, because “actions of consequences” would seem to be at the root of any analysis of reality.

    • Agree: Syd Walker
    • Replies: @Kyle
    @AnotherDad

    Count me as one of those people. It’s seems that since we actually started testing people for this thing in mid March, daily news cases have been constant at ~25k to 30k. That’s looking at daily new cases on google. Is that squashed, or is that what the curve was going to look like anyway.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @AnotherDad

    , @FreddieY
    @AnotherDad

    Another Dad said:


    This–blindingly obvious–reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that’s why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks...

    Weird to me, because “actions of consequences” would seem to be at the root of any analysis of reality.
     

    Yep. I think this error in reasoning is similar to the one that leftists make when they say, “The crime rate’s down, therefore we no longer need to keep so many criminals in prison.” Privately I think of this as the vitamin D fallacy because of something a doctor once told me. I asked him to test my vitamin D level because I was taking very large amounts as a supplement and wanted to find out whether the dose was correct. When he got the results from the lab he told me, “Your blood level’s perfect so you can stop taking the supplement.” I was astonished because I had known him for years and up till then, he had struck me as quite intelligent.

    Does anyone know if this fallacy has a name? Maybe humans tend to be bad at keeping track of cause and effect, like they tend to be bad at probability.

    Replies: @O'Really, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    , @Justvisiting
    @AnotherDad


    This–blindingly obvious–reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that’s why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks, who then roll out these ridiculous statements.
     
    It is blindingly obvious to any reasonable person.

    Before CV it was just the left wing that was bats&^t crazy.

    Now the right-wing has joined the club.

    The good news is I live in a state (CT) that has been hard hit, so all but the dumbest of the morons "get it" and everyone behaves in public.

    The pictures I am seeing of large crowds without masks shopping is telling me all I need to know about flyover country--I will treat them like the urban ghettos--the natives have convinced me they are stupid and dangerous.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Polynikes
    @AnotherDad


    This–blindingly obvious–reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that’s why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks, who then roll out these ridiculous statements.
     
    I guess you would have to define "stepped on hard," but nothing is blindly obvious. Seems as if you are suffering from your own confirmation bias.

    The places that locked down the hardest: NYC, Italy, NJ, etc... have suffered the most. Other places like California have locked down hard, but have not. There isn't even a correlation to point to, let alone a causation.

    What we do see is that most transmission is indoors--a surprise to the NY Gov.--and there is the possibility that strict lockdowns made things worse. At the very least the marginal utility of a strict lockdown versus basic social distancing has not be proven to be worth it by any data.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  8. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "So 0.72% is a long way from Herd Immunity."

    Irrelevant. Young athletic men, prime of life, immune to the boomer remover.

    CoronaHoax.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @AnotherDad, @Neoconned, @Anonymous (n), @Dr. DoomNGloom

    #DataAverse

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @AnotherDad

    According to the CDC, out of supposedly 58,000 plus covid deaths, 6 have between the ages of 6-14 (with no mention of comorbidity). Six.

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex


    Why are my children under house arrest, AD? Why? Because Sailer might get sick? Pretty selfish.

  9. @Steve Sailer
    @newrouter

    Admission Against Interest.

    Replies: @newrouter, @newrouter, @HA, @I, Libertine

    “We Sent Them Samples Of A Goat, A Papaya & A Pheasant”: Tanzanian President Catches WHO In Epic Lie
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/we-sent-them-samples-goat-papaya-pheasant-tanzanian-president-catches-who-epic-lie

  10. @Steve Sailer
    @newrouter

    Admission Against Interest.

    Replies: @newrouter, @newrouter, @HA, @I, Libertine

    Coronavirus: India cancels order for ‘faulty’ China rapid test kits

    https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-india-cancels-order-faulty-042432153.html

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    @newrouter

    It happened to England, it is happening in Brazil with ventilators (I guess with tests too, but here I doubt they will notice it). I will never understand how people can be this stupid (though in the case of Brazil it is hard to know whether it's corruption or stupidity).

  11. @Buffalo Joe
    If you can't get to a ball park to watch a baseball game on a sunny day the next best thing would be to listen to a well announced game on the radio. Just make up games and I will listen. No need to put any players or fans at risk.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @anon, @Hypnotoad666, @Steve Sailer, @BigJimSportCamper

    Carl Yastrzemski just slammed up against the Green Monster, caught the fly ball that was hit off Sandy Koufax by Micky Mantle and threw it to Brooks Robinson at third. Now Pete Rose is caught in a pickle between Robinson at third and Yogi Berra at the plate.

    Now Rose slides head-first and scores a run. He bet on a win.

    How’s that for your made up game? Give me a console and I’ll provide crowd noises.

    • Replies: @SafeNow
    @Buzz Mohawk

    How about that!! Oh, Doctor!

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Buzz, contract is in the mail. Now, work on your signature home run call and don't forget shout outs to "old timers" in the stands. And occasionally mention that you ate at "Dell Friscos" or "Ruth's Chris's" steak house, good for a compted meal. Stay Safe. Safe? Are you F##king blind? He was out by a mile.

  12. Chris Sale had a weird case of pneumonia in February. I’d love to know if he has antibodies.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @O'Really

    Pitcher Chris Sale always seems to be having some kind of health-related bad luck. If he were ever completely healthy he'd probably go 20-2.

    Replies: @O'Really

  13. It’s May 10th. Is everyone dead in Georgia yet?

    • Replies: @vhrm
    @XYZ (no Mr.)


    There have been 33,508 cases confirmed in Georgia, with the state's earliest reported case on Feb. 1. Over the last 14 days, the average daily increase in newly confirmed cases was 663.07. Over the previous 14-day period, the average daily increase in newly confirmed cases was 704.29.

    There have been 5,999 total patients hospitalized in Georgia during the pandemic, according to the Department of Public Health's cumulative total. Over the last 14 days, the average daily increase in new patients was 111.86. Over the previous 14-day period, the average daily increase in new patients was 126.43.
     
    https://www.11alive.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-in-georgia-real-time-updates-sunday-may-10/85-ed0142b0-8e93-4e68-b1d8-27c65a85f1d9

    The new confirmed cases are down and the hospitalizations are down, but I'm sure that's because everyone else is dead. Considering they lifted the lockdown, which is the only thing between us and the hard vacuum of space, 10 days ago... it's the only explanation.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    XYZ, not everyone, just one black "jogger."

  14. @Steve Sailer
    @newrouter

    Admission Against Interest.

    Replies: @newrouter, @newrouter, @HA, @I, Libertine

    “Admission Against Interest.”

    You previously noted some criticism against the Stanford group’s approach by Gelman and Cochran and others. Perhaps Ioannidis et al. adjusted their methodology, and the lower prevalence in this new study is one result of that.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @HA

    They came up with about 1.1% infected in raw numbers, but then statistically estimated that false positives and false negatives meant that the best estimate was about 0.7%.

    Replies: @gcochran

  15. @O'Really
    Chris Sale had a weird case of pneumonia in February. I'd love to know if he has antibodies.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Pitcher Chris Sale always seems to be having some kind of health-related bad luck. If he were ever completely healthy he’d probably go 20-2.

    • Replies: @O'Really
    @Steve Sailer

    Yeah, but a lot of his "bad luck" is related to his deeply unnatural (if highly effective!) pitching motion.

    That said, he picked a good year to have Tommy John.

  16. @Steve Sailer
    @O'Really

    Pitcher Chris Sale always seems to be having some kind of health-related bad luck. If he were ever completely healthy he'd probably go 20-2.

    Replies: @O'Really

    Yeah, but a lot of his “bad luck” is related to his deeply unnatural (if highly effective!) pitching motion.

    That said, he picked a good year to have Tommy John.

  17. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Buffalo Joe

    Carl Yastrzemski just slammed up against the Green Monster, caught the fly ball that was hit off Sandy Koufax by Micky Mantle and threw it to Brooks Robinson at third. Now Pete Rose is caught in a pickle between Robinson at third and Yogi Berra at the plate.

    Now Rose slides head-first and scores a run. He bet on a win.

    How's that for your made up game? Give me a console and I'll provide crowd noises.

    Replies: @SafeNow, @Buffalo Joe

    How about that!! Oh, Doctor!

  18. @HA
    @Steve Sailer

    "Admission Against Interest."

    You previously noted some criticism against the Stanford group's approach by Gelman and Cochran and others. Perhaps Ioannidis et al. adjusted their methodology, and the lower prevalence in this new study is one result of that.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    They came up with about 1.1% infected in raw numbers, but then statistically estimated that false positives and false negatives meant that the best estimate was about 0.7%.

    • Replies: @gcochran
    @Steve Sailer

    Testing MLB people avoided recruitment bias.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  19. Gee, it’s almost as if science works on timescales of years, decades, and centuries. Not months.

  20. “Presumably, baseball players…tend to be above average in general competence (seeing as how they tend to possess desirable jobs)”

    General competence? How do you figure that, Steve? Is there any evidence that MLBers are above average in general IQ (intelligence)? I would venture to say, no there isn’t. Most don’t attend college, and due to the ever growing Hispanic population of players, many don’t speak enough English that would enable them to pass a basic citizenship test. Unlike the NFL Wonderlich test, it is possible to have an IQ of about 85-90, and become a successful MLB player playing at various positions (e.g. OF, 2B, 1B, DH, setup/closer P, in particular). On field strategy, MLB hasn’t entirely changed from the deadball era of pre-1920. Joe Jackson, a borderline HOFer, was an illiterate and slightly above average IQ than moron and imbecile. Yet he was a near great MLBer. Other examples throughout the 20th century exist as well. So having an amazingly talented athletic skill doesn’t automatically translate into having a high IQ. Hence the term “dumb jock.”

    Granted, being a professional athlete these days does seem to be like winning the lottery of life, but at the end of the day, it doesn’t safeguard one from facing the same daily risks and challenges as everyone else.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    I think your average baseball player has to think a bit more than football players, except for the quarterback. Infielders have to think fast to decide what's best for every situation.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    , @Anonymous
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    All I know about Joe DiMaggio was what I learned from the well regarded Richard Ben Cramer biography. I could care less about baseball but was OCD about Marilyn Monroe (I still sort of follow the coverage on her, but since everyone who ever knew her is pretty much dead now there is little more to learn-there are now over 800 books currently or formerly in print about her, but mostly because they still sell).

    From the quoted dialogue and from what clips I've read of interviews and discussions of him, it seems like he might have been a borderline "idiot savant": a genius about baseball and essentially stupid about everything else, a man who kept garbage bags full of cash from paid autograph signings in his house (he didn't pay tax, but no one bothered him because he was Joe D) , someone whose entire existence was lubricated by his reputation and status and mystique but without which he would have basically been the stereotypical dumb guinea.

    He married the most famous and desirable movie star of her (or, as it turned out, anyone's) day, watched TV in the hotel on their honeymoon every minute when not fucking, smacked her around and expected her to be a typical housewife one hundred percent of the time.....I mean, morals and desires aside, that in addition just screams stupid. After she died he went out and tried to nail every actress that reminded him of Monroe, hating and denouncing Hollywood all the while for having, along with the Kennedys, killed his beloved Marilyn. (I can't help but think that had he had a little real smarts he could have done a lot to get to the bottom of what really did happen. I strongly suspect she was killed by the medical incompetence and overly invasive actions of psychiatrist Ralph Greenson and the aide he'd hired for her, Eunice Murray; the situation was much like that with Beach Boy Brian Wilson and his shrink Landy, but Wilson escaped and Monroe did not.)

    Outside baseball, he did nothing particularly smart, said nothing smart, he had one kid who OD'd on crack at 65 six months after the old man died and whose entire life was one fuckup after another-another "Walt", a living Hard Luck Schleprock. Does anyone know if there was any objective testing on him that would support or disprove this? He was in the military for awhile, are his test scores available?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Anonymous, @Morris Applebaum IV

  21. @Steve Sailer
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Thanks for your intelligent, insightful, completely non-kneejerk comment.

    Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Thoughts, @CantSleep, @theMann

    Don’t be bitchy, Sailer. The N is tiny, so no conclusions can be drawn from this puny sample. Young, athletic men in great shape likely repel the kungflu without developing antibodies.

    Feel better now?

    (I can’t wait til Limbaugh appropriates ‘mouth diaper’ tomorrow or later this week, depending on his chemo regime)

    CoronaHoax.

    • Disagree: ic1000
    • Troll: Anonymous (n)
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Wasn't Ron Unz supposed to remove trash such as yourself?

    , @AnotherDad
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Young, athletic men in great shape likely repel the kungflu without developing antibodies.
     

    I doubt this is true. My guess is even most healthy young people who get a solid exposure, experience a case varying from trivial ("asymptomatic") to typical "cold" on through "bad flu", developing antibodies to see it off just like they do for exposure to other common cold/flu viruses.

    However, you are certainly correct that antibodies or not the Wuhan Special isn't a big threat to a young healthy guy.

    So ... what's the hold up? Why don't you go ahead and have a CoronaHoax party--chase down and invite some positives--and get you and your friends infected.

    Then with an official positive antibody test you can use "Corona immunity" game on Tinder. All the chicks will be all warm and fuzzy knowing you are immune will practically swoon hearing how your robust health and good genes just brushed that Chinese "killer" aside.

    They'll be throwing themselves at you!

    Just be careful that they don't "forget" their birth control so they can bear a genetically superior super-baby.

    Stop complaining. Get infected and take advantage of the opportunity.

    Replies: @Currier House

    , @Muggles
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Yes, if this is such a hoax, why don't you do yourself a favor and volunteer at a hospital full of these sick hoaxers? Like a candy striper. Even if you are male (no discrimination!). Bring them books and read to them. Change the TV channels.

    You can then after a few weeks, notify the local media about your heroism. At the very least a nice news article or maybe even a spot on TV news. Or national TV!

    Could open up a whole new career for you! Just don't mention your hoax theory. Hard to play hero when those sick folks don't have anything you can catch.

  22. um…these are the top of the heap of american workers…they have not had to interact with anyone since the virus hit…now go test grocery stores clerks etc…the numbers will be much higher there

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @propagandist hacker

    So the lockdown works for those who can afford to do it?

    Replies: @Not Raul

  23. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "So 0.72% is a long way from Herd Immunity."

    Irrelevant. Young athletic men, prime of life, immune to the boomer remover.

    CoronaHoax.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @AnotherDad, @Neoconned, @Anonymous (n), @Dr. DoomNGloom

    Coronavirus does exist BUT in the last few weeks I’ve been leaning towards the”coronahoax” crowd myself. The whole Fauci etc crowd have been proven to be chicken littles and have almost caused Great Depression 2.0 just to stop Trump from being elected.

    If the spooks can determine that a “rogue faction” of our govt and/or military is behind this we need quiet “wet works” type CIA executions of the perps involved.

    In the last week or two it seems that many even in the Trump administration are even leaning towards the “leaked from a bioweapons lab” angle….

    We’ll see.

  24. Doesn’t this also say something about how community spread works? We all know what the life a baseball player in a spring training camp looks like: 100 players flying in from all over the world, dugouts, locker rooms, training tables, throwing balls to each other, tagging each other, three men well within 6 feet of each other at home plate, fans requesting autographs, eating at expensive restaurants every night… and baseball players were doing their thing from early February to mid March.

    How did so few get exposed?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Father Coughlin

    Outdoors?

    Replies: @Partic

  25. Anon[192] • Disclaimer says:

    Healthy people may not develop antibodies even if exposed to Covid. If Covid doesn’t make it past the innate immune system, antibodies don’t develop. The innate immune system can finish off the virus in some cases before it gets very far. Pro ball players are young and very healthy. However, they do spit and yell a lot, so they could transmit it. But is there even a pro ball player over 40? They’re in the safe age bracket. The problem is that the coaches and umpires (often older) could get it.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    There seems to be a lot of confusion over what ages are more likely to get infected versus more likely to die.

    Replies: @Polynikes, @Brás Cubas

    , @Sideshow Bob
    @Anon

    This is all a bunch of unfalsifiable bunk pushed by the usual suspects to improve their own positions.

  26. @Father Coughlin
    Doesn't this also say something about how community spread works? We all know what the life a baseball player in a spring training camp looks like: 100 players flying in from all over the world, dugouts, locker rooms, training tables, throwing balls to each other, tagging each other, three men well within 6 feet of each other at home plate, fans requesting autographs, eating at expensive restaurants every night... and baseball players were doing their thing from early February to mid March.

    How did so few get exposed?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Outdoors?

    • Replies: @Partic
    @Steve Sailer

    I understood the testing, for the most part, was done on office staffs throughout MLB, and not on the players.
    Is this not correct?

  27. @propagandist hacker
    um...these are the top of the heap of american workers...they have not had to interact with anyone since the virus hit...now go test grocery stores clerks etc...the numbers will be much higher there

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    So the lockdown works for those who can afford to do it?

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @Steve Sailer

    like playing chess with a four year old

  28. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "Presumably, baseball players...tend to be above average in general competence (seeing as how they tend to possess desirable jobs)"

    General competence? How do you figure that, Steve? Is there any evidence that MLBers are above average in general IQ (intelligence)? I would venture to say, no there isn't. Most don't attend college, and due to the ever growing Hispanic population of players, many don't speak enough English that would enable them to pass a basic citizenship test. Unlike the NFL Wonderlich test, it is possible to have an IQ of about 85-90, and become a successful MLB player playing at various positions (e.g. OF, 2B, 1B, DH, setup/closer P, in particular). On field strategy, MLB hasn't entirely changed from the deadball era of pre-1920. Joe Jackson, a borderline HOFer, was an illiterate and slightly above average IQ than moron and imbecile. Yet he was a near great MLBer. Other examples throughout the 20th century exist as well. So having an amazingly talented athletic skill doesn't automatically translate into having a high IQ. Hence the term "dumb jock."

    Granted, being a professional athlete these days does seem to be like winning the lottery of life, but at the end of the day, it doesn't safeguard one from facing the same daily risks and challenges as everyone else.

    Replies: @Anon, @Anonymous

    I think your average baseball player has to think a bit more than football players, except for the quarterback. Infielders have to think fast to decide what’s best for every situation.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Anon

    MLBers are perhaps the dumbest of all major sports, except for world soccer players. Like apes, and chimpanzees, most of what MLBers do is repetition and pure instinct. NFL, because of the Wonderlich test which is de facto an IQ test, for the higher end of the BC, tend to be heads and shoulders above the average, and above average MLBer.

    QBs and all Offensive Lineman tend to have higher than average IQs. One of the main reasons why the sports media can always count on fairly coherent somewhat well spoken interviews. Almost as if they can actually think, and put together more than a single coherent thought at a time.

    Replies: @james wilson

  29. @Steve Sailer
    @newrouter

    Admission Against Interest.

    Replies: @newrouter, @newrouter, @HA, @I, Libertine

    I hate to be that guy, but I am. “Admission against interest” is a redundancy. An admission is by definition against the speaker’s interest. We are taught in law school to avoid it ( or we were in my day), but few of us comply. We use the term “declaration against interest “ for speakers who are not directly involved in the controversy, and therefore couldn’t make admissions.

    I know the way out. No need to call security.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @I, Libertine

    But the speaker, the Stanford professor, has made himself directly involved in the controversy.

    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @I, Libertine


    “Admission against interest” is a redundancy. An admission is by definition against the speaker’s interest.
     
    Why do lawyers think that they can impose a legal term of art on the rest of us? Could it be that with unlimited hubris comes limitless pedantry? After all, if you can impose a legal system that enriches lawyers while delivering injustice, what can't you do?
  30. Kyle says:
    @AnotherDad

    So 0.72% is a long way from Herd Immunity.
     
    Exactly.

    I'd guess the population wide number is a little higher--my guess would be maybe 10 million Americans--3%. Could be 1% could be 5% but that's the rough ballpark.

    This--blindingly obvious--reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that's why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks, who then roll out these ridiculous statements.

    Weird to me, because "actions of consequences" would seem to be at the root of any analysis of reality.

    Replies: @Kyle, @FreddieY, @Justvisiting, @Polynikes

    Count me as one of those people. It’s seems that since we actually started testing people for this thing in mid March, daily news cases have been constant at ~25k to 30k. That’s looking at daily new cases on google. Is that squashed, or is that what the curve was going to look like anyway.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Kyle

    If you click my link below, you will come to a very good graph that I have been watching for weeks. Another commenter here provided the link.

    If you read and study there, and if you scroll down to the graph that is aligned so the curves can be properly compared, you will see that Sweden is right in the middle, alongside and virtually indistinguishable from the US and several other countries. You might also ask the question you just wrote, "Is that squashed, or is that what the curve was going to look like anyway."

    It was, just maybe, what the curve was going to look like anyway.

    Now, we all know Sweden didn't just do nothing, but we also know that Sweden did not shut down and destroy the livelihoods of its people.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/daily-coronavirus-covid-19-data-graph-page/#001

    Replies: @Brás Cubas

    , @AnotherDad
    @Kyle


    Count me as one of those people. It’s seems that since we actually started testing people for this thing in mid March, daily news cases have been constant at ~25k to 30k. That’s looking at daily new cases on google. Is that squashed, or is that what the curve was going to look like anyway.
     
    Yes, it's squashed.

    People heard about the epidemic, the deaths, and most people altered their behavior in ways that pushed the reproduction rate to near or below 1. The lockdown was--to my mind--piling on.

    However, there are, of course, people who are more or less careful and whole "population groups" who are markedly less compliant, so the Wuhan Special continues to sputter on--in the US--on a gradual downhill trajectory. Summer, of course, being part of that.

    I do not think--just sizing the data up--lifting the "lockdown" will kick this back off again, provided people continue to use common sense, mask up where appropriate and generally be careful. Again summer helps. But next fall--baring a vaccine--with people back inside in close quarters again, will require increased diligence.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Buffalo Joe

  31. @Anon
    Healthy people may not develop antibodies even if exposed to Covid. If Covid doesn't make it past the innate immune system, antibodies don't develop. The innate immune system can finish off the virus in some cases before it gets very far. Pro ball players are young and very healthy. However, they do spit and yell a lot, so they could transmit it. But is there even a pro ball player over 40? They're in the safe age bracket. The problem is that the coaches and umpires (often older) could get it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sideshow Bob

    There seems to be a lot of confusion over what ages are more likely to get infected versus more likely to die.

    • Replies: @Polynikes
    @Steve Sailer

    https://www.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/hunting-down-covid-19/

    Another study showing kids are unlikely, or less likely, to transmit it.

    , @Brás Cubas
    @Steve Sailer

    James Thompson in his latest piece ('Sneeze and Fly') publishes Dr. Muge Cevik's twitter review of several papers and she says this:


    Although limited, these studies so far indicate that susceptibility to infection increases with age (highest >60y) and growing evidence suggests children are less susceptible, are infrequently responsible for household transmission, are not the main drivers of this epidemic
     
    The twitter address is:

    https://twitter.com/mugecevik/status/1257393264967274497

    I don't know if this is biologically or socially related; someone is bound to come up with an explanation at some point.
  32. @I, Libertine
    @Steve Sailer

    I hate to be that guy, but I am. “Admission against interest” is a redundancy. An admission is by definition against the speaker’s interest. We are taught in law school to avoid it ( or we were in my day), but few of us comply. We use the term “declaration against interest “ for speakers who are not directly involved in the controversy, and therefore couldn’t make admissions.

    I know the way out. No need to call security.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    But the speaker, the Stanford professor, has made himself directly involved in the controversy.

  33. @AnotherDad

    So 0.72% is a long way from Herd Immunity.
     
    Exactly.

    I'd guess the population wide number is a little higher--my guess would be maybe 10 million Americans--3%. Could be 1% could be 5% but that's the rough ballpark.

    This--blindingly obvious--reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that's why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks, who then roll out these ridiculous statements.

    Weird to me, because "actions of consequences" would seem to be at the root of any analysis of reality.

    Replies: @Kyle, @FreddieY, @Justvisiting, @Polynikes

    Another Dad said:

    This–blindingly obvious–reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that’s why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks…

    Weird to me, because “actions of consequences” would seem to be at the root of any analysis of reality.

    Yep. I think this error in reasoning is similar to the one that leftists make when they say, “The crime rate’s down, therefore we no longer need to keep so many criminals in prison.” Privately I think of this as the vitamin D fallacy because of something a doctor once told me. I asked him to test my vitamin D level because I was taking very large amounts as a supplement and wanted to find out whether the dose was correct. When he got the results from the lab he told me, “Your blood level’s perfect so you can stop taking the supplement.” I was astonished because I had known him for years and up till then, he had struck me as quite intelligent.

    Does anyone know if this fallacy has a name? Maybe humans tend to be bad at keeping track of cause and effect, like they tend to be bad at probability.

    • Agree: ic1000
    • Replies: @O'Really
    @FreddieY

    It's called the Butterfield effect, after NY Times reporter Fox Butterfield and his (in)famous series of reports with titles like "Despite Drop In Crime, An Increase In Inmates"

    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1204/graham120204.asp

    Steve has written about it many times before

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @FreddieY

    As Vitamin D is produced naturally by the human body via sunlight, the fact that you were taking Vitamin D seems to indicate that you reside in a region thats lacking in abundant amount of sunshine. Someone such as Steve, out on the West Coast, doesn't have that problem as CA in general has lots of sunshine. FL as well, since it's nickname is of course "The Sunshine State."

  34. @Kyle
    @AnotherDad

    Count me as one of those people. It’s seems that since we actually started testing people for this thing in mid March, daily news cases have been constant at ~25k to 30k. That’s looking at daily new cases on google. Is that squashed, or is that what the curve was going to look like anyway.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @AnotherDad

    If you click my link below, you will come to a very good graph that I have been watching for weeks. Another commenter here provided the link.

    If you read and study there, and if you scroll down to the graph that is aligned so the curves can be properly compared, you will see that Sweden is right in the middle, alongside and virtually indistinguishable from the US and several other countries. You might also ask the question you just wrote, “Is that squashed, or is that what the curve was going to look like anyway.”

    It was, just maybe, what the curve was going to look like anyway.

    Now, we all know Sweden didn’t just do nothing, but we also know that Sweden did not shut down and destroy the livelihoods of its people.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/daily-coronavirus-covid-19-data-graph-page/#001

    • Agree: Polynikes
    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    @Buzz Mohawk


    Now, we all know Sweden didn’t just do nothing, but we also know that Sweden did not shut down and destroy the livelihoods of its people.
     
    Plus, they are probably ahead of almost everyone else in achieving herd immunity.
  35. @Steve Sailer
    @HA

    They came up with about 1.1% infected in raw numbers, but then statistically estimated that false positives and false negatives meant that the best estimate was about 0.7%.

    Replies: @gcochran

    Testing MLB people avoided recruitment bias.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @gcochran

    You have other kinds of selection bias, but they probably got a fair percentage of employees to volunteer because their bosses were recommending they get tested.

  36. China: all your health care,testing and manufacturing ,belong to us! lol.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  37. It’s an interesting statistic, given that MLB players and staff are widely separated geographically while more clustered by economic class and skills. So it’s kind of a geographic cross-section at a certain socio-economic layer.

    Whether 0.7% antibodies is good or bad depends on whether we are supposed to be under house arrest until all viruses die, or just until the hospitals are underwhelmed. My understanding going into this was that it was the latter, but that goal has come and gone so now it seems we are all signed up for the former, though I don’t remember anyone ever announcing this explicitly.

    If the goal is #EndAllViruses, then 0.7% is good since it means that >99% escaped #CoronaDoom and the Kinsa map has flatlined.

    If the goal is #PaceOurHospitals on the way to #HerdImmunity, then 0.7% is terrible since we’ve got 60+% to go and the Kinsa map has flatlined.

    But there seems to be no clear goal as to why we are doing this. So I guess it’s just whatever.

    • Agree: vhrm
  38. Kaz says:

    Anyone have updated excess mortality numbers?

    From the earlier ones I saw around mid april, the results were clear, this virus is actually quite deadly.

    But I haven’t been able to find more updated ones.

    This is the only reason why I’m not so quick to dismiss it a as a hoax.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Kaz

    The FT have some here

    https://www.ft.com/content/a26fbf7e-48f8-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

    and Euromomo here

    https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

    The only caveat is that AFAIK the death rate they're comparing against is pretty recent, and they don't actually say what it is, I think it's the 2015-8 average. So there's no way of comparing with olden days, like the 1957-8 and 1968 flu pandemics, also Chinese-sourced but unlikely to have come from any lab.

    Hard, consistent data on 1957-8 and 1968, especially for US and UK, seems thin on the Google ground.

    Wiki 1968 - "The CDC estimated that about 100,000 people died in the U.S; most excess deaths were in those 65 and older." - that's with no distancing/lockdowns, and we're already at 80,000 with CV19. On the other hand "CDC estimated that in total, the virus killed one million people worldwide" - and Worldometer gives 284,004 deaths as of now, much lower.

    Wiki 1958 "About 70,000 to 116,000 people died in the United States" - yet wiki 1968 says "fewer people died during this pandemic than in previous pandemics" , although the CDC estimates for 1958 and 1968 deaths, both in the US and world wide are almost identical.

    I think we can say that as far as the US is concerned, CV19 appears on course to be deadlier than both 1958 and 1968. But that's assuming doctors (for financial or other reasons) aren't flagging 'normal' deaths as CV19, as in the example posted above.

    Anecdotal evidence - so far this year we know six people who've died, the youngest in their sixties, the oldest 94. Yet none have been victims of CV19. I do wonder if lockdown is affecting the animal spirits of the elderly, or perhaps it's just our age.

    More anecdotes from 1957/8.

    https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2020/april/memories-of-the-1957-flu


    "More than sixty years ago, puffing on an untipped Senior Service (we were allowed to smoke in those days) to cover up the reek in a dissecting room at St Thomas’s Hospital, I was struck down by a pandemic virus that had recently evolved in China. By the time I fell ill (its onset was very sudden) the virus had already killed more than 20,000 people in the UK, with 1150 dying every week at its peak, and 80,000 in the US. In the first UK wave, more than half the deaths occurred in the under-55s. It went for the elderly later, in its second wave. It killed quickly: nearly 20 per cent of its younger victims died before getting to hospital and two-thirds were dead within 48 hours of admission. But it has been airbrushed out of history, despite being by far the most lethal pandemic to affect Britain at any time in the hundred years after the ‘Spanish’ flu pandemic at the end of the First World War.

    There was more vigorous debate about its name – why ‘Asian’ flu, why not ‘Asiatic’? – than about its impact on society, despite its lethality. Political memoirs, hospital histories and accounts of the NHS don’t mention it. It put no pressure on Intensive Care Units because none existed; ventilators were in their developmental infancy and were used mainly to treat patients with polio, as well as a few with tetanus, barbiturate poisoning or chest injuries; and there were no arguments about testing because tests were so slow that when the results were reported the patient was either better or dead. The impact of the virus was being measured by excess mortality, the number of deaths greater than expected. It is mentioned in medical and microbiological textbooks but not described in detail except to note that it was of low virulence because it killed many fewer than Spanish flu in 1918-19. "
     
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Kaz



    excess mortality numbers

     

    Shutting down the hospitals for normal procedures to be ready for the Coronapocylypse might have something to do with it.

    Replies: @Polynikes, @Up2Drew

    , @Sideshow Bob
    @Kaz

    It's all unfalsifiable. We aren't going to know what really happened. But it will be used in the future as justification for all sorts of measures because "we all came together and sheltered-in-place to stave off the worst."

  39. @Anon
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    I think your average baseball player has to think a bit more than football players, except for the quarterback. Infielders have to think fast to decide what's best for every situation.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    MLBers are perhaps the dumbest of all major sports, except for world soccer players. Like apes, and chimpanzees, most of what MLBers do is repetition and pure instinct. NFL, because of the Wonderlich test which is de facto an IQ test, for the higher end of the BC, tend to be heads and shoulders above the average, and above average MLBer.

    QBs and all Offensive Lineman tend to have higher than average IQs. One of the main reasons why the sports media can always count on fairly coherent somewhat well spoken interviews. Almost as if they can actually think, and put together more than a single coherent thought at a time.

    • Replies: @james wilson
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    "MLBers are perhaps the dumbest of all major sports, except for world soccer players. Like apes, and chimpanzees, most of what MLBers do is repetition and pure instinct. NFL, because of the Wonderlich test which is de facto an IQ test, for the higher end of the BC, tend to be heads and shoulders above the average, and above average MLBer."

    To paraphrase Orwell, you must be a smart guy to make a statement which is that stupid. A full standard deviation in intelligence is not altered by the Wonderlich test. Simple fact, the NFL is 68% black, and MLB is 62% white, plus white hispanics and Asians. Being stupid is no bar to any professional sport except golf.

    No player is denied a spot in the NFL for stupidity. A prized player at a cerebral position may well be drafted much lower for scoring very poorly on the Wonderlich, but he'll be drafted. A top three quarterback went high in the draft this year with a Wonderlich score of 6.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  40. vhrm says:
    @XYZ (no Mr.)
    It's May 10th. Is everyone dead in Georgia yet?

    Replies: @vhrm, @Buffalo Joe

    There have been 33,508 cases confirmed in Georgia, with the state’s earliest reported case on Feb. 1. Over the last 14 days, the average daily increase in newly confirmed cases was 663.07. Over the previous 14-day period, the average daily increase in newly confirmed cases was 704.29.

    There have been 5,999 total patients hospitalized in Georgia during the pandemic, according to the Department of Public Health’s cumulative total. Over the last 14 days, the average daily increase in new patients was 111.86. Over the previous 14-day period, the average daily increase in new patients was 126.43.

    https://www.11alive.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-in-georgia-real-time-updates-sunday-may-10/85-ed0142b0-8e93-4e68-b1d8-27c65a85f1d9

    The new confirmed cases are down and the hospitalizations are down, but I’m sure that’s because everyone else is dead. Considering they lifted the lockdown, which is the only thing between us and the hard vacuum of space, 10 days ago… it’s the only explanation.

    • LOL: Manfred Arcane
  41. Lot says:

    Shocking development! Third worlders ask Chinese to “write off” loans they can’t pay back.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/11/belt-and-road-china-may-have-to-write-off-loans-as-countries-struggle-to-pay.html

    Buck up ChiComs, being told to write off your non-performing Tanzanian debt is a right of passage for a global power.

    • LOL: BenKenobi
    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    @Lot

    Well, the USA is well on its way toward being a third-world country now, and I do happen to know some debt the Chinese could write off, and (if we had nads) whether they want to or not.

    We can call it a down payment on their debt to humanity.

  42. So most of the testees were

    [insert scrotal joke here]

    lead researcher Jay Bhattacharya

    Do I hear…?

    All in all, this is a pretty interesting Admission Against Interest, because this team of Bhattacharya, Bendavid, Ioannidis

    …have outbound tickets to Bombay, Tel Aviv, and Athens.

  43. Well maybe somebody’s going to catch a cold. Enough with this corona bs already just play ball.

  44. The corona-hoax is not the virus itself which likely does exist but the overreaction to it.
    Even with numbers massaged to include every death from other causes, the death toll will be in line with 1968 flu season, the worst since the Spanish Flu of 1918. Adults who experienced that event tell me they have no memory of any alarm being raised at that time; they don’t remember it at all.
    That smirking little Italian devil and his string-pullers are laughing into their sleeves at the gullible morons, Drumpf included, who fell for their plot to wreck America.

    Steve especially seems to have accepted all this with unusual credulity. Having been a loyal reader for decades I expect Steve’s default reaction ato be suspicion of the face value reason for any new thing while attempting to divine the true impetus behind events.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Troll: Corvinus
    • Replies: @U. Ranus
    @jesse helms think-alike


    Steve especially seems to have accepted all this with unusual credulity
     
    I suspect Steve put too much trust in Cochran. There are a few things to consider before trusting Cochran.

    Cochran had some procedure in the neighborhood bypass surgery done, some years ago. I've seen before/after live specimens of such procedures when done around his age, of people quite brilliant in the before picture. I was told it's the reperfusion injury that does this to a formerly good mind.

    This tells you why Cochran is mostly coasting on memory nowadays.

    The same event also tells you why you might chose not to trust Cochran.

    In the weeks leading up to his scheduled major surgery, he ran a donate to my blog campaign, asking his readers to donate towards the great articles he was ostensibly planning to write.

    Then he disappeared. No articles. Then he came back, and the quality of his work had suffered. The work he asked people to donate towards, before the surgery that he must have known to be liable to impact the quality the very insights he was selling.

    , @Neil Templeton
    @jesse helms think-alike


    Even with numbers massaged to include every death from other causes, the death toll will be in line with 1968 flu season, the worst since the Spanish Flu of 1918. Adults who experienced that event tell me they have no memory of any alarm being raised at that time; they don’t remember it at all.
     
    Well. They'll remember this one, 'cause we're special. We can light it up.
  45. @Steve Sailer
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Thanks for your intelligent, insightful, completely non-kneejerk comment.

    Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Thoughts, @CantSleep, @theMann

    Steve we dont develop herd immunity from the flu.

    Five years from today you will look back at those types of comments and go…that was insightful!

    Was reading about Hong Kong Flu and talking to my dad who had it back in the Navy and I am even more convinced this is a hoax.

    Ftr, my dad thinks I already had Corona…And if that was what I had in November then it was the lightest Flu of my life (international travl nov 2nd two week incub)

    However, we both agreed that this is definitely shaping up to be an assasination attempt on Trump

    Trump better not go to a hospital with the sniffles…

    Furthermore same with Biden if he wins…Blind Gossip said Biden has to step down half way through the term and let his vice take over…Corona plays into that perfectly

    It’s a hoax guys

    • Troll: Corvinus
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Thoughts

    Ftr, my dad thinks I already had Corona…And if that was what I had in November then it was the lightest Flu of my life (international travl nov 2nd two week incub)

    Or perhaps that light illness you had in November was just the flu, bro.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    , @Anon
    @Thoughts

    https://twitter.com/21WIRE/status/1259086481265655810

    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Thoughts



    my dad thinks I already had Corona

     

    Have the experts given us yet a diagnostic list of symptoms that identify a Coronainfection, and how it differs from a normal flu? One might presume that it would have to somehow be "stronger" or something.

    Replies: @Currier House, @epebble, @Thoughts

  46. @Thoughts
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve we dont develop herd immunity from the flu.

    Five years from today you will look back at those types of comments and go...that was insightful!

    Was reading about Hong Kong Flu and talking to my dad who had it back in the Navy and I am even more convinced this is a hoax.

    Ftr, my dad thinks I already had Corona...And if that was what I had in November then it was the lightest Flu of my life (international travl nov 2nd two week incub)

    However, we both agreed that this is definitely shaping up to be an assasination attempt on Trump

    Trump better not go to a hospital with the sniffles...

    Furthermore same with Biden if he wins...Blind Gossip said Biden has to step down half way through the term and let his vice take over...Corona plays into that perfectly

    It's a hoax guys

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon, @Hippopotamusdrome

    Ftr, my dad thinks I already had Corona…And if that was what I had in November then it was the lightest Flu of my life (international travl nov 2nd two week incub)

    Or perhaps that light illness you had in November was just the flu, bro.

    • Agree: Meretricious
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve, I am not defending attacks on you, but your use of the phrase, "just the flu, bro" is beneath you.

    I will paste here my response to a recent, sincere reply to me, a reply that mentioned the very sad death of an elderly and ill person who had COVID-19:


    This is sad, and it sounds like the same kind of thing that happens with flu viruses.

    Supporters of the panic/shutdown/overreaction like to use the phrase, “it’s just like the flu” or “it’s just the flu” as a badge of shame against those opposed. SARS-CoV-2 is not “the flu,” but it is having much the same effect as a bad flu virus, no matter what anyone says.

    It is not the Black Death.

    The Corona Panic of 2020 will go down as a world-wide overreaction that caused far more damage than what the virus itself would have caused if it had been treated “like the flu.”
     
    FWIW try to balance the side effects or costs of the cure against the damages or costs of the illness.
  47. @Steve Sailer
    @Father Coughlin

    Outdoors?

    Replies: @Partic

    I understood the testing, for the most part, was done on office staffs throughout MLB, and not on the players.
    Is this not correct?

  48. @FreddieY
    @AnotherDad

    Another Dad said:


    This–blindingly obvious–reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that’s why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks...

    Weird to me, because “actions of consequences” would seem to be at the root of any analysis of reality.
     

    Yep. I think this error in reasoning is similar to the one that leftists make when they say, “The crime rate’s down, therefore we no longer need to keep so many criminals in prison.” Privately I think of this as the vitamin D fallacy because of something a doctor once told me. I asked him to test my vitamin D level because I was taking very large amounts as a supplement and wanted to find out whether the dose was correct. When he got the results from the lab he told me, “Your blood level’s perfect so you can stop taking the supplement.” I was astonished because I had known him for years and up till then, he had struck me as quite intelligent.

    Does anyone know if this fallacy has a name? Maybe humans tend to be bad at keeping track of cause and effect, like they tend to be bad at probability.

    Replies: @O'Really, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    It’s called the Butterfield effect, after NY Times reporter Fox Butterfield and his (in)famous series of reports with titles like “Despite Drop In Crime, An Increase In Inmates”

    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1204/graham120204.asp

    Steve has written about it many times before

  49. @Thoughts
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve we dont develop herd immunity from the flu.

    Five years from today you will look back at those types of comments and go...that was insightful!

    Was reading about Hong Kong Flu and talking to my dad who had it back in the Navy and I am even more convinced this is a hoax.

    Ftr, my dad thinks I already had Corona...And if that was what I had in November then it was the lightest Flu of my life (international travl nov 2nd two week incub)

    However, we both agreed that this is definitely shaping up to be an assasination attempt on Trump

    Trump better not go to a hospital with the sniffles...

    Furthermore same with Biden if he wins...Blind Gossip said Biden has to step down half way through the term and let his vice take over...Corona plays into that perfectly

    It's a hoax guys

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon, @Hippopotamusdrome

  50. @Steve Sailer
    @propagandist hacker

    So the lockdown works for those who can afford to do it?

    Replies: @Not Raul

    like playing chess with a four year old

  51. SF says:

    The number of confirmed cases in the US right now is 0.4% of the population. If the samples were taken on, say April 16, the number was 0.2%, according to Worldometer. So if this study was representative of the US population. It would indicate that uncounted cases are 250% times the number of confirmed cases.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    @SF

    0.72% sounds high given the demographic measured. Many don't develop antibodies, there is also a lag, and these aren't the sort of people who would need to. Add in that there are large number of places in America where the virus hasn't spread. I don't think this is out of line with all the many other studies that confirm widespread infection in other places like NY, Stockholm etc.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  52. Anonymous[437] • Disclaimer says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    @Steve Sailer

    Don't be bitchy, Sailer. The N is tiny, so no conclusions can be drawn from this puny sample. Young, athletic men in great shape likely repel the kungflu without developing antibodies.

    Feel better now?

    (I can't wait til Limbaugh appropriates 'mouth diaper' tomorrow or later this week, depending on his chemo regime)

    CoronaHoax.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @AnotherDad, @Muggles

    Wasn’t Ron Unz supposed to remove trash such as yourself?

  53. SF says:

    The number of confirmed cases in the US right now is 0.4% of the population. If the samples were taken on, say April 16, the number was 0.2%, according to Worldometer. So if this study was representative of the US population. It would indicate that uncounted cases are 250% of the number of confirmed cases.

  54. @Buffalo Joe
    If you can't get to a ball park to watch a baseball game on a sunny day the next best thing would be to listen to a well announced game on the radio. Just make up games and I will listen. No need to put any players or fans at risk.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @anon, @Hypnotoad666, @Steve Sailer, @BigJimSportCamper

    If you can’t get to a ball park to watch a baseball game…

    Just stream one from South Korea.

    https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/kbo-scores-odds-schedule-how-to-watch-live-stream-tv-channel-game-times-as-baseball-returns-to-korea/

  55. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Anon

    MLBers are perhaps the dumbest of all major sports, except for world soccer players. Like apes, and chimpanzees, most of what MLBers do is repetition and pure instinct. NFL, because of the Wonderlich test which is de facto an IQ test, for the higher end of the BC, tend to be heads and shoulders above the average, and above average MLBer.

    QBs and all Offensive Lineman tend to have higher than average IQs. One of the main reasons why the sports media can always count on fairly coherent somewhat well spoken interviews. Almost as if they can actually think, and put together more than a single coherent thought at a time.

    Replies: @james wilson

    “MLBers are perhaps the dumbest of all major sports, except for world soccer players. Like apes, and chimpanzees, most of what MLBers do is repetition and pure instinct. NFL, because of the Wonderlich test which is de facto an IQ test, for the higher end of the BC, tend to be heads and shoulders above the average, and above average MLBer.”

    To paraphrase Orwell, you must be a smart guy to make a statement which is that stupid. A full standard deviation in intelligence is not altered by the Wonderlich test. Simple fact, the NFL is 68% black, and MLB is 62% white, plus white hispanics and Asians. Being stupid is no bar to any professional sport except golf.

    No player is denied a spot in the NFL for stupidity. A prized player at a cerebral position may well be drafted much lower for scoring very poorly on the Wonderlich, but he’ll be drafted. A top three quarterback went high in the draft this year with a Wonderlich score of 6.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @james wilson


    Being stupid is no bar to any professional sport except golf.
     
    I am not saying golfers are dumb, but c'mon, putting a ball in a cup is not cognitive rocket science.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @james wilson

    "Simple fact, the NFL is 68% black, and MLB is 62% white, plus white hispanics and Asians. "

    Simple fact, MLB's whites aren't of the Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, and Ph.D kind. Neither are the Hispanics or Asians for that matter. Minus their extraordinary athletic ability and many would either be in prison for attempted murder, rape, domestic violence. At best, they'd be HS Athletic gym coaches. The other point being, of course, that some sports require more cognitive abilities than others (even though the majority of athletes still would not be at an IQ level approaching genius level).

    "Most professional athletes have been on scholarship since the third grade"--HOF NBA BOS C Bill Russell

  56. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "Presumably, baseball players...tend to be above average in general competence (seeing as how they tend to possess desirable jobs)"

    General competence? How do you figure that, Steve? Is there any evidence that MLBers are above average in general IQ (intelligence)? I would venture to say, no there isn't. Most don't attend college, and due to the ever growing Hispanic population of players, many don't speak enough English that would enable them to pass a basic citizenship test. Unlike the NFL Wonderlich test, it is possible to have an IQ of about 85-90, and become a successful MLB player playing at various positions (e.g. OF, 2B, 1B, DH, setup/closer P, in particular). On field strategy, MLB hasn't entirely changed from the deadball era of pre-1920. Joe Jackson, a borderline HOFer, was an illiterate and slightly above average IQ than moron and imbecile. Yet he was a near great MLBer. Other examples throughout the 20th century exist as well. So having an amazingly talented athletic skill doesn't automatically translate into having a high IQ. Hence the term "dumb jock."

    Granted, being a professional athlete these days does seem to be like winning the lottery of life, but at the end of the day, it doesn't safeguard one from facing the same daily risks and challenges as everyone else.

    Replies: @Anon, @Anonymous

    All I know about Joe DiMaggio was what I learned from the well regarded Richard Ben Cramer biography. I could care less about baseball but was OCD about Marilyn Monroe (I still sort of follow the coverage on her, but since everyone who ever knew her is pretty much dead now there is little more to learn-there are now over 800 books currently or formerly in print about her, but mostly because they still sell).

    From the quoted dialogue and from what clips I’ve read of interviews and discussions of him, it seems like he might have been a borderline “idiot savant”: a genius about baseball and essentially stupid about everything else, a man who kept garbage bags full of cash from paid autograph signings in his house (he didn’t pay tax, but no one bothered him because he was Joe D) , someone whose entire existence was lubricated by his reputation and status and mystique but without which he would have basically been the stereotypical dumb guinea.

    He married the most famous and desirable movie star of her (or, as it turned out, anyone’s) day, watched TV in the hotel on their honeymoon every minute when not fucking, smacked her around and expected her to be a typical housewife one hundred percent of the time…..I mean, morals and desires aside, that in addition just screams stupid. After she died he went out and tried to nail every actress that reminded him of Monroe, hating and denouncing Hollywood all the while for having, along with the Kennedys, killed his beloved Marilyn. (I can’t help but think that had he had a little real smarts he could have done a lot to get to the bottom of what really did happen. I strongly suspect she was killed by the medical incompetence and overly invasive actions of psychiatrist Ralph Greenson and the aide he’d hired for her, Eunice Murray; the situation was much like that with Beach Boy Brian Wilson and his shrink Landy, but Wilson escaped and Monroe did not.)

    Outside baseball, he did nothing particularly smart, said nothing smart, he had one kid who OD’d on crack at 65 six months after the old man died and whose entire life was one fuckup after another-another “Walt”, a living Hard Luck Schleprock. Does anyone know if there was any objective testing on him that would support or disprove this? He was in the military for awhile, are his test scores available?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    In contrast, Joe's little brother Dom DiMaggio struck everybody who knew him as intelligent. He had a successful business career after baseball.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Anonymous

    If you read Cramer's book on DiMaggio, then you know that Joe didn't really do very much during WW2, except for entertaining the troops and playing some baseball on army camps. He didn't see any actual service, unlike Bob Feller, Ted Williams, or even Yogi Berra, who was at the battle of Normandy and received a medal, by the way. Cramer's book makes it clear that he was pissed off that he was missing out on playing with the Yankees and losing peak years of his career, while the military was making money off his name by having him play baseball on the camps for free. He didn't even want to serve, initially, but his first wife kept insisting that he enlist.

    In short, because he played for NY, and was a winner on the field, DiMaggio was protected by the powers that be. They liked him because he won. Contrast that with Ted Williams who until the last yrs of his life just wanted to be left alone and not bothered and so wasn't as well liked by the press at large. People tend to forget how much sports, MLB in particular, was molded and shaped by the way in which the media covered an individual player. As Jim Bouton stated "If the reporters had told the truth about what went on in baseball, there'd have been no controversy surrounding my book."

    At least Williams served his country with honor, that should be respected. But off the field he wasn't any better, much less smarter, than DiMaggio. Not sure if the Kid was even literate.

    Personally think MM is way overrated. For her time she seemed close to a 9, at best. Today, she wouldn't even register as a 7. But back then in the '50's with the way women dressed and how they tended to look, sure, MM was head and shoulders above most of her competition. The older generations tend to think she's the bees knees. But she's no Pamela Anderson. Or Kim Kardashian for that matter.

    Most (ca. 95%) of all current MLBers would fit your definition of "idiot savant". They can barely function in the real world. But then, with what they are paid per year, they don't have to. The perceptive ones, or at least those who hire the right sort of financial advisors, can hold onto their earnings post retirement and maintain the fiction that they're somewhat competent adults. Of course they don't have to worry; they'll always have their fanboys to clean up after them.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Up2Drew

    , @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    He married the most famous and desirable movie star of her (or, as it turned out, anyone’s) day, watched TV in the hotel on their honeymoon every minute when not fucking, smacked her around and expected her to be a typical housewife one hundred percent of the time…..I mean, morals and desires aside, that in addition just screams stupid.
     
    You do realize that, while this sort of behavior may seem distasteful, especially today, there's nothing inherently "stupid" about it, don't you? Most men would behave this way if they could get away with it. But most men aren't 50s era superstar athletes and among the most famous men in America. DiMaggio was, so he could.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @AnotherDad

    , @Morris Applebaum IV
    @Anonymous

    I've never understood why some people are so crazy about Marilyn Monroe, aside from her dying young (which seems to be a very good career move for entertainers and carpenters.) IMO Rita Hayworth and Grace Kelly were both even better looking and vastly more talented and accomplished. Ginger Rogers wasn't quite as pretty, but was infinitely better at everything else artistic.

    How can anyone not like Joe Dimaggio? He was Joltin' Joe to my parents and grandparents, and Mr. Coffee to my generation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOIEwvhG5g

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKXFALasDc8

    Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?
    Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you
    Woo, woo, woo
    What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson?
    Jolting Joe has left and gone away

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Inverness

  57. @Buffalo Joe
    If you can't get to a ball park to watch a baseball game on a sunny day the next best thing would be to listen to a well announced game on the radio. Just make up games and I will listen. No need to put any players or fans at risk.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @anon, @Hypnotoad666, @Steve Sailer, @BigJimSportCamper

    In all seriousness, they should just rerun classic games in all the sports. It’s actually more entertaining than you would think. Even if you saw the game years ago you probably forgot who won or how.

    For example, I remember watching reruns of the 1984 Laker-Celtic series a couple years ago. It was oddly suspenseful because I couldn’t remember who won, say, game three or four. Some of the best basketball ever.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Hypnotoad666


    In all seriousness, they should just rerun classic games in all the sports.
     
    Better yet, average, everyday games, which is what we're missing. WRAQ in bustling Angelica, N.Y. sometimes streams 50+-year-old ballgames on Tuesday mornings, though many weeks they have a music show instead. Last one I heard was a late-season Mets game from 1968.


    http://www.wraq.org/program-schedule.html

    Of course, this being Angelica, they could stream live roque tournaments, seeing that the village has a global monopoly on that Victorian-era pastime.

    https://nyfolklore.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/UFSPDI16_017_HDph020.jpg


    On the other side of the state,The Sunday Mass from Jamaica, Queens was posted on YouTube today, complete with pews packed by teens from Immaculate Conception Catholic Academy who gave one another the Sign of Peace.

    Are they violating the governor's and mayor's orders, or are they rerunning a Mass from 2017, the last time Mothers' Day coincided with the Fifth Sunday of Easter?
  58. There is the unsavory possibility that COVID-19 antibody concentration recedes over time.

    Bye bye herd immunity.

    Innate immune response would be minimal as this is a novel virus.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Snowgrass

    So vaccine won't work either?

    Replies: @Snowgrass

    , @HA
    @Snowgrass

    "There is the unsavory possibility that COVID-19 antibody concentration recedes over time. Bye bye herd immunity."

    That's arguably the expected scenario -- given that immunity for the known coronaviruses lasts about a year or two. So yes, in the same way that you're able to catch one of the coronaviruses that make up the common cold every couple of years, this new coronavirus will quite possibly have several chances to take you out (if there's no vaccine or cure) depending on how quickly your immunity and that of the herd's decays away. And if it leaves you with scarring of the lungs or diminshed lung capacity during any of its visits, that means the next time it comes around, you'll be one of those people with "co-morbidities" whose demise we can just brush off by claiming you were at death's door anyway -- the way that many people are already eager to do this time around.

    Of course, we could get lucky -- perhaps the immunity for coronavirus lasts much longer. (As noted earlier, the Hong Kong flu would have been worse were it not for the fact that some people still had immunity from earlier strains.)

    Moreover, to address one of the followups to your comment, none of that means that a vaccine isn't possible, though depending on how quickly the virus mutates, a vaccine might need to be periodically rejiggered the way the existing flu vaccine is.

    Replies: @Snowgrass

  59. @james wilson
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    "MLBers are perhaps the dumbest of all major sports, except for world soccer players. Like apes, and chimpanzees, most of what MLBers do is repetition and pure instinct. NFL, because of the Wonderlich test which is de facto an IQ test, for the higher end of the BC, tend to be heads and shoulders above the average, and above average MLBer."

    To paraphrase Orwell, you must be a smart guy to make a statement which is that stupid. A full standard deviation in intelligence is not altered by the Wonderlich test. Simple fact, the NFL is 68% black, and MLB is 62% white, plus white hispanics and Asians. Being stupid is no bar to any professional sport except golf.

    No player is denied a spot in the NFL for stupidity. A prized player at a cerebral position may well be drafted much lower for scoring very poorly on the Wonderlich, but he'll be drafted. A top three quarterback went high in the draft this year with a Wonderlich score of 6.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Being stupid is no bar to any professional sport except golf.

    I am not saying golfers are dumb, but c’mon, putting a ball in a cup is not cognitive rocket science.

    • LOL: theMann
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Hypnotoad666


    I am not saying golfers are dumb, but c’mon, putting a ball in a cup is not cognitive rocket science.
     
    Golfers put a ball in the cup. Other athletes put both in.

    Replies: @james wilson

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Hypnotoad666

    And neither is hitting a baseball. Especially when compared to cognitive feats such as finding a cure for cancer. Or for COVID-19, for that matter.

  60. @Anonymous
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    All I know about Joe DiMaggio was what I learned from the well regarded Richard Ben Cramer biography. I could care less about baseball but was OCD about Marilyn Monroe (I still sort of follow the coverage on her, but since everyone who ever knew her is pretty much dead now there is little more to learn-there are now over 800 books currently or formerly in print about her, but mostly because they still sell).

    From the quoted dialogue and from what clips I've read of interviews and discussions of him, it seems like he might have been a borderline "idiot savant": a genius about baseball and essentially stupid about everything else, a man who kept garbage bags full of cash from paid autograph signings in his house (he didn't pay tax, but no one bothered him because he was Joe D) , someone whose entire existence was lubricated by his reputation and status and mystique but without which he would have basically been the stereotypical dumb guinea.

    He married the most famous and desirable movie star of her (or, as it turned out, anyone's) day, watched TV in the hotel on their honeymoon every minute when not fucking, smacked her around and expected her to be a typical housewife one hundred percent of the time.....I mean, morals and desires aside, that in addition just screams stupid. After she died he went out and tried to nail every actress that reminded him of Monroe, hating and denouncing Hollywood all the while for having, along with the Kennedys, killed his beloved Marilyn. (I can't help but think that had he had a little real smarts he could have done a lot to get to the bottom of what really did happen. I strongly suspect she was killed by the medical incompetence and overly invasive actions of psychiatrist Ralph Greenson and the aide he'd hired for her, Eunice Murray; the situation was much like that with Beach Boy Brian Wilson and his shrink Landy, but Wilson escaped and Monroe did not.)

    Outside baseball, he did nothing particularly smart, said nothing smart, he had one kid who OD'd on crack at 65 six months after the old man died and whose entire life was one fuckup after another-another "Walt", a living Hard Luck Schleprock. Does anyone know if there was any objective testing on him that would support or disprove this? He was in the military for awhile, are his test scores available?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Anonymous, @Morris Applebaum IV

    In contrast, Joe’s little brother Dom DiMaggio struck everybody who knew him as intelligent. He had a successful business career after baseball.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Dom seemed way smarter.

    An old priest with experience in the matter told me that with large Irish and Italian Catholic families, with the Irish, generally the kids tended to be more similar in intelligence and character, with the Italians, you could count on a big variation. Usually there would be a clump of several somewhere either somewhat below or above average, almost always one or two idiots, and often, not always, one or two outstanding kids.

    He was that rarity that Trucklin’ Bill Buckley claimed to be, a real Anglo-Irish Catholic, with roots back to Recusants on his father’s side and a Book of Common Prayer discreetly in reach.He said he’d done something he regretted in seminary, wouldn’t say what, and instead of a predictably comfortable career in an upscale Connecticut diocese arranged to be sent somewhere where he could expect to be assigned to a blue collar row house parish. He was. All his fellow priests were Irish, Italian, or Polish. He was an oddball, interested in art, photography, and ham radio. But he worked very hard for his flock. So he had no dog in the fight either way, just reported on what he saw.

    That came to mind when I saw one of Madonna’s sisters on some TV show. Madge might not be genius level IQ wise, but she’s fast, quick witted. Usually trying to go over. This girl had that total deer-in-the-headlights look. Not necessarily stupid, but not situationally aware. Personality wise very different.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  61. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "So 0.72% is a long way from Herd Immunity."

    Irrelevant. Young athletic men, prime of life, immune to the boomer remover.

    CoronaHoax.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @AnotherDad, @Neoconned, @Anonymous (n), @Dr. DoomNGloom

    I think it’s time you change your handle to Je Suis Troll in keeping to the spirit of your comments.

    • Disagree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    @Anonymous (n)

    JSOM is providing a valuable, if occasionally a tad too iconoclastic, counterpoint to the prevailing "wisdom"

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Mr McKenna, @Anonymous (n), @Currier House

  62. @FreddieY
    @AnotherDad

    Another Dad said:


    This–blindingly obvious–reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that’s why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks...

    Weird to me, because “actions of consequences” would seem to be at the root of any analysis of reality.
     

    Yep. I think this error in reasoning is similar to the one that leftists make when they say, “The crime rate’s down, therefore we no longer need to keep so many criminals in prison.” Privately I think of this as the vitamin D fallacy because of something a doctor once told me. I asked him to test my vitamin D level because I was taking very large amounts as a supplement and wanted to find out whether the dose was correct. When he got the results from the lab he told me, “Your blood level’s perfect so you can stop taking the supplement.” I was astonished because I had known him for years and up till then, he had struck me as quite intelligent.

    Does anyone know if this fallacy has a name? Maybe humans tend to be bad at keeping track of cause and effect, like they tend to be bad at probability.

    Replies: @O'Really, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    As Vitamin D is produced naturally by the human body via sunlight, the fact that you were taking Vitamin D seems to indicate that you reside in a region thats lacking in abundant amount of sunshine. Someone such as Steve, out on the West Coast, doesn’t have that problem as CA in general has lots of sunshine. FL as well, since it’s nickname is of course “The Sunshine State.”

  63. @Hypnotoad666
    @james wilson


    Being stupid is no bar to any professional sport except golf.
     
    I am not saying golfers are dumb, but c'mon, putting a ball in a cup is not cognitive rocket science.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    I am not saying golfers are dumb, but c’mon, putting a ball in a cup is not cognitive rocket science.

    Golfers put a ball in the cup. Other athletes put both in.

    • Replies: @james wilson
    @Reg Cæsar

    To the contrary, putting the ball in the cup is similar to what billiard players do. Spacial cognitive demands are very high, also the reason women cannot compete with men in a sport such as billiards, entirely lacking in physical demands.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  64. @james wilson
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    "MLBers are perhaps the dumbest of all major sports, except for world soccer players. Like apes, and chimpanzees, most of what MLBers do is repetition and pure instinct. NFL, because of the Wonderlich test which is de facto an IQ test, for the higher end of the BC, tend to be heads and shoulders above the average, and above average MLBer."

    To paraphrase Orwell, you must be a smart guy to make a statement which is that stupid. A full standard deviation in intelligence is not altered by the Wonderlich test. Simple fact, the NFL is 68% black, and MLB is 62% white, plus white hispanics and Asians. Being stupid is no bar to any professional sport except golf.

    No player is denied a spot in the NFL for stupidity. A prized player at a cerebral position may well be drafted much lower for scoring very poorly on the Wonderlich, but he'll be drafted. A top three quarterback went high in the draft this year with a Wonderlich score of 6.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    “Simple fact, the NFL is 68% black, and MLB is 62% white, plus white hispanics and Asians. ”

    Simple fact, MLB’s whites aren’t of the Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, and Ph.D kind. Neither are the Hispanics or Asians for that matter. Minus their extraordinary athletic ability and many would either be in prison for attempted murder, rape, domestic violence. At best, they’d be HS Athletic gym coaches. The other point being, of course, that some sports require more cognitive abilities than others (even though the majority of athletes still would not be at an IQ level approaching genius level).

    “Most professional athletes have been on scholarship since the third grade”–HOF NBA BOS C Bill Russell

  65. @jesse helms think-alike
    The corona-hoax is not the virus itself which likely does exist but the overreaction to it.
    Even with numbers massaged to include every death from other causes, the death toll will be in line with 1968 flu season, the worst since the Spanish Flu of 1918. Adults who experienced that event tell me they have no memory of any alarm being raised at that time; they don't remember it at all.
    That smirking little Italian devil and his string-pullers are laughing into their sleeves at the gullible morons, Drumpf included, who fell for their plot to wreck America.

    Steve especially seems to have accepted all this with unusual credulity. Having been a loyal reader for decades I expect Steve's default reaction ato be suspicion of the face value reason for any new thing while attempting to divine the true impetus behind events.

    Replies: @U. Ranus, @Neil Templeton

    Steve especially seems to have accepted all this with unusual credulity

    I suspect Steve put too much trust in Cochran. There are a few things to consider before trusting Cochran.

    Cochran had some procedure in the neighborhood bypass surgery done, some years ago. I’ve seen before/after live specimens of such procedures when done around his age, of people quite brilliant in the before picture. I was told it’s the reperfusion injury that does this to a formerly good mind.

    This tells you why Cochran is mostly coasting on memory nowadays.

    The same event also tells you why you might chose not to trust Cochran.

    In the weeks leading up to his scheduled major surgery, he ran a donate to my blog campaign, asking his readers to donate towards the great articles he was ostensibly planning to write.

    Then he disappeared. No articles. Then he came back, and the quality of his work had suffered. The work he asked people to donate towards, before the surgery that he must have known to be liable to impact the quality the very insights he was selling.

  66. @Anonymous
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    All I know about Joe DiMaggio was what I learned from the well regarded Richard Ben Cramer biography. I could care less about baseball but was OCD about Marilyn Monroe (I still sort of follow the coverage on her, but since everyone who ever knew her is pretty much dead now there is little more to learn-there are now over 800 books currently or formerly in print about her, but mostly because they still sell).

    From the quoted dialogue and from what clips I've read of interviews and discussions of him, it seems like he might have been a borderline "idiot savant": a genius about baseball and essentially stupid about everything else, a man who kept garbage bags full of cash from paid autograph signings in his house (he didn't pay tax, but no one bothered him because he was Joe D) , someone whose entire existence was lubricated by his reputation and status and mystique but without which he would have basically been the stereotypical dumb guinea.

    He married the most famous and desirable movie star of her (or, as it turned out, anyone's) day, watched TV in the hotel on their honeymoon every minute when not fucking, smacked her around and expected her to be a typical housewife one hundred percent of the time.....I mean, morals and desires aside, that in addition just screams stupid. After she died he went out and tried to nail every actress that reminded him of Monroe, hating and denouncing Hollywood all the while for having, along with the Kennedys, killed his beloved Marilyn. (I can't help but think that had he had a little real smarts he could have done a lot to get to the bottom of what really did happen. I strongly suspect she was killed by the medical incompetence and overly invasive actions of psychiatrist Ralph Greenson and the aide he'd hired for her, Eunice Murray; the situation was much like that with Beach Boy Brian Wilson and his shrink Landy, but Wilson escaped and Monroe did not.)

    Outside baseball, he did nothing particularly smart, said nothing smart, he had one kid who OD'd on crack at 65 six months after the old man died and whose entire life was one fuckup after another-another "Walt", a living Hard Luck Schleprock. Does anyone know if there was any objective testing on him that would support or disprove this? He was in the military for awhile, are his test scores available?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Anonymous, @Morris Applebaum IV

    If you read Cramer’s book on DiMaggio, then you know that Joe didn’t really do very much during WW2, except for entertaining the troops and playing some baseball on army camps. He didn’t see any actual service, unlike Bob Feller, Ted Williams, or even Yogi Berra, who was at the battle of Normandy and received a medal, by the way. Cramer’s book makes it clear that he was pissed off that he was missing out on playing with the Yankees and losing peak years of his career, while the military was making money off his name by having him play baseball on the camps for free. He didn’t even want to serve, initially, but his first wife kept insisting that he enlist.

    In short, because he played for NY, and was a winner on the field, DiMaggio was protected by the powers that be. They liked him because he won. Contrast that with Ted Williams who until the last yrs of his life just wanted to be left alone and not bothered and so wasn’t as well liked by the press at large. People tend to forget how much sports, MLB in particular, was molded and shaped by the way in which the media covered an individual player. As Jim Bouton stated “If the reporters had told the truth about what went on in baseball, there’d have been no controversy surrounding my book.”

    At least Williams served his country with honor, that should be respected. But off the field he wasn’t any better, much less smarter, than DiMaggio. Not sure if the Kid was even literate.

    Personally think MM is way overrated. For her time she seemed close to a 9, at best. Today, she wouldn’t even register as a 7. But back then in the ’50’s with the way women dressed and how they tended to look, sure, MM was head and shoulders above most of her competition. The older generations tend to think she’s the bees knees. But she’s no Pamela Anderson. Or Kim Kardashian for that matter.

    Most (ca. 95%) of all current MLBers would fit your definition of “idiot savant”. They can barely function in the real world. But then, with what they are paid per year, they don’t have to. The perceptive ones, or at least those who hire the right sort of financial advisors, can hold onto their earnings post retirement and maintain the fiction that they’re somewhat competent adults. Of course they don’t have to worry; they’ll always have their fanboys to clean up after them.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Most (ca. 95%) of all current MLBers would fit your definition of “idiot savant”. They can barely function in the real world


    Not to put too fine a point on it, this is entirely deranged.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    , @Anonymous
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    Personally think MM is way overrated. For her time she seemed close to a 9, at best. Today, she wouldn’t even register as a 7. But back then in the ’50’s with the way women dressed and how they tended to look, sure, MM was head and shoulders above most of her competition. The older generations tend to think she’s the bees knees. But she’s no Pamela Anderson. Or Kim Kardashian for that matter.
     
    Pam Anderson has some, but mediocre, acting skills and is dumber than a tree. Her two kids appear to be about as smart as Farrah Fawcett's one (and Fawcett herself was not particularly dumb, but she made a particularly poor choice of sire in Ryan O'Neal.) Her breasts are implants and her figure is otherwise decent, but again, dumb as hell.

    The Kartrashians are all, uniformly, without any discernible talent whatever besides exploiting the gullibility of a few fans. Can't act, can't sing, they are famous for reality TV dysfunction and, like Anderson, 'sex tapes' of themselves somehow getting out. (Anderson made two, one with Tommy Lee and another with Bret Michels, both bejingled, Lee not very smart either.)

    Anderson did well on the small screen (Baywatch) and posters, that kind of thing, but was not even a B or C player as a film actress. Barb Wire??

    On the other hand...no one would argue Monroe was the greatest, or even in the top 5, actresses in terms of acting ability. But probably in the top 25 or so. She was better as an actress than she was given credit for, but there is an asterisk: she went to being a Method actress pretty much in mid-stream, usually for people already successful, trying that is sure disaster. It's an unappreciated but serious achievement.

    But as a movie star: she is unmatched, in terms of putting asses in the seats. She still winds up on magazine covers and has books published on her life, because they sell. People whose parents were not born when she died are still transfixed by her. Every new blond hotsy in film, music, modeling is compared to her, over and over.

    What did she do right? Well, for one, she had the nearly perfect hourglass figure, and she just comes across a certain way in photos, on motion picture film, in art. She was a decent enough actress, and she turned in some key roles at a key pivotal time in American culture. And she left them wanting more: she died at what looking back seems the perfect time careerwise.

    Perhaps that's one reason Star Trek became the franchise it did: they ended it after three years, it never jumped the shark, and a groundswell of fans built up and it became a cult. Who knnows, maybe that's how most religions start. I don't know. But if anyone reading this is still around in fifty years, find out if anyone remembers the Kardashians or Pam Anderson. Then find out if anyone knows who Marilyn Monroe was.

    I bet they do.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @Coemgen, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    , @Anonymous
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    MM had a little plastic surgery - nose job and chin augmentation. Pam and Kim followed to a much greater extent. MM's ass was kind of flat, that's about my only criticism of her in her enhanced form. Better than Pam and maybe similar to original Kardashian.

    The surgeon was brilliant in imagining who she could be, as he took a girl next door and made her into a smouldering sex bomb. Much more restrained than today's approach.

    I find the plastic approach off-putting. An ugly person with silicone under skin where their breasts might be is still the same person really, just trying harder to fool the world. Kind of like gender reassignment but on a lesser scale. But there is a market for it evidently.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    , @Up2Drew
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    My dad served with Joe DiMaggio in Hawaii.

    His duties were to check one lock on one warehouse, daily. I know there's no way to verify this, but pops was not prone to exaggeration.

  67. @Hypnotoad666
    @Buffalo Joe

    In all seriousness, they should just rerun classic games in all the sports. It's actually more entertaining than you would think. Even if you saw the game years ago you probably forgot who won or how.

    For example, I remember watching reruns of the 1984 Laker-Celtic series a couple years ago. It was oddly suspenseful because I couldn't remember who won, say, game three or four. Some of the best basketball ever.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    In all seriousness, they should just rerun classic games in all the sports.

    Better yet, average, everyday games, which is what we’re missing. WRAQ in bustling Angelica, N.Y. sometimes streams 50+-year-old ballgames on Tuesday mornings, though many weeks they have a music show instead. Last one I heard was a late-season Mets game from 1968.

    http://www.wraq.org/program-schedule.html

    Of course, this being Angelica, they could stream live roque tournaments, seeing that the village has a global monopoly on that Victorian-era pastime.

    On the other side of the state,The Sunday Mass from Jamaica, Queens was posted on YouTube today, complete with pews packed by teens from Immaculate Conception Catholic Academy who gave one another the Sign of Peace.

    Are they violating the governor’s and mayor’s orders, or are they rerunning a Mass from 2017, the last time Mothers’ Day coincided with the Fifth Sunday of Easter?

  68. @gcochran
    @Steve Sailer

    Testing MLB people avoided recruitment bias.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    You have other kinds of selection bias, but they probably got a fair percentage of employees to volunteer because their bosses were recommending they get tested.

  69. @Buffalo Joe
    If you can't get to a ball park to watch a baseball game on a sunny day the next best thing would be to listen to a well announced game on the radio. Just make up games and I will listen. No need to put any players or fans at risk.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @anon, @Hypnotoad666, @Steve Sailer, @BigJimSportCamper

    Ronald Reagan used to have a job as a remote baseball announcer on the radio. He’d get a telegram with the outcome of each batter, then make up the balls and strikes in between.

    • Replies: @Morris Applebaum IV
    @Steve Sailer

    That's a great story, I hadn't that.

    Baseball is the perfect radio sport and its decline in popularity is somewhat related to the decline of radio.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve, slight correction. I think Regan got the game in progress on a "teletype" not by telegram.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Stan Adams
    @Steve Sailer

    That's how it worked back in the day - not only for baseball, but for football. Many famous broadcasters, including Walter Cronkite, got their start as radio sportscasters.

    Cronkite began his career as "Walter Wilcox" at KCMO in Kansas City. (In those days, the radio stations gave their stars fake proprietary names, so that if someone left, he couldn't take his name with him.)

    From Cronkite's autobiography:


    We subscribed to a quite remarkable service provided by Western Union. Any radio station could purchase virtually any college football game that the networks weren't broadcasting. Western Union sent a lone telegraph operator to the game's press box, and from there he tapped out in Morse code a running report on the game.

    I never figured out where Western Union got all these football-knowledgeable operators. But they were good. They sent in their play-by-play reports in a tightly abbreviated form. In the radio studio at the receiving end, another Western Union operator translated the Morse code and typed out the cryptic message. It might read something like "Brown 3 LT Smith." We play-by-play announcers then let our imaginations run. My report on this play, for instance, would go something like, "So the ball's on the Trojans' 43, second and eight. Notre Dame's back in the huddle. They break. It's a shift to the left. A handoff to Brown, who hits a solid wall there. He didn't make much on that attempt to get back through that hole at left tackle. Maybe a yard or two. They're coming out of that pileup. It looks like Eddie Smith made the tackle. That boy is having some game today. Notre Dame picked up two - well, it looks like three yards on the play. So Notre Dame's on Southern Cal's 40 - third and five."

    The announcer's skill at doing this, and the phony excitement he could generate on demand, were the keys to success....

    The Western Union service was nearly flawless, except on those occasions when the wire would go down. These were rare, and of short duration - a couple of minutes, tops. I filled by simply calling a time-out. Who, I figured, was counting? When the wire came back, the sending operator quickly filled us in on anything that had happened on the field. No problem. Except one day - and it was the all-important Notre Dame-Southern Cal game.

    The wire went down. Two minutes passed, three minutes passed, four minutes passed. The wire stayed down. It was too long for a time-out, too long for a couple of player substitutions. I decided there was nothing to do but resume the game. The Irish had the ball when the wire went down. So I moved them down the field in gentle increments.

    Now they were getting near the Southern Cal 20-yard line and I knew I couldn't get them inside the twenty. *That* would make the papers the next day and expose my fictional game. Nor could I have any sensational plays for the same reason. So I kept the two teams moving back and forth as nearly mid-field as I could, and with absolutely nothing of interest happening.

    The wire was down almost a half-hour. When the wire came back, the operator in California gave me a quick fill-in to bring me up to date. It turned out that Southern Cal had scored. At the moment, I had Notre Dame with the ball. I had to get the ball back in Southern Cal's possession and then down the field for the score. It was the longest and dullest quarter in the history of organized football. Only some Super Bowl games of recent years have had duller quarters, but at least they didn't last as long as ours.

    About the same time I was doing football in KCMO, there was a fellow doing telegraph baseball reports in Des Moines. His name was Ronald Reagan. Many years later, at some occasion at the White House, President Reagan and I were exchanging stories and I told him of my long game.

    A year or so after that, I was chatting with some group about that Trojan-Irish broadcast and one of my listeners said: "Hey, you know I was at the White House a couple of weeks ago and President Reagan tells a story just like that about having to fill in when the wire went down during a baseball broadcast."

    I won't say the President of the United States stole my story, but...
     

  70. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Anonymous

    If you read Cramer's book on DiMaggio, then you know that Joe didn't really do very much during WW2, except for entertaining the troops and playing some baseball on army camps. He didn't see any actual service, unlike Bob Feller, Ted Williams, or even Yogi Berra, who was at the battle of Normandy and received a medal, by the way. Cramer's book makes it clear that he was pissed off that he was missing out on playing with the Yankees and losing peak years of his career, while the military was making money off his name by having him play baseball on the camps for free. He didn't even want to serve, initially, but his first wife kept insisting that he enlist.

    In short, because he played for NY, and was a winner on the field, DiMaggio was protected by the powers that be. They liked him because he won. Contrast that with Ted Williams who until the last yrs of his life just wanted to be left alone and not bothered and so wasn't as well liked by the press at large. People tend to forget how much sports, MLB in particular, was molded and shaped by the way in which the media covered an individual player. As Jim Bouton stated "If the reporters had told the truth about what went on in baseball, there'd have been no controversy surrounding my book."

    At least Williams served his country with honor, that should be respected. But off the field he wasn't any better, much less smarter, than DiMaggio. Not sure if the Kid was even literate.

    Personally think MM is way overrated. For her time she seemed close to a 9, at best. Today, she wouldn't even register as a 7. But back then in the '50's with the way women dressed and how they tended to look, sure, MM was head and shoulders above most of her competition. The older generations tend to think she's the bees knees. But she's no Pamela Anderson. Or Kim Kardashian for that matter.

    Most (ca. 95%) of all current MLBers would fit your definition of "idiot savant". They can barely function in the real world. But then, with what they are paid per year, they don't have to. The perceptive ones, or at least those who hire the right sort of financial advisors, can hold onto their earnings post retirement and maintain the fiction that they're somewhat competent adults. Of course they don't have to worry; they'll always have their fanboys to clean up after them.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Up2Drew

    Most (ca. 95%) of all current MLBers would fit your definition of “idiot savant”. They can barely function in the real world

    Not to put too fine a point on it, this is entirely deranged.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @kaganovitch

    Exactly, it is deranged that playing a kid's game makes many players wealthy beyond the dreams of King Midas. But, that's the free market for you.

  71. @Lot
    Shocking development! Third worlders ask Chinese to “write off” loans they can’t pay back.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/11/belt-and-road-china-may-have-to-write-off-loans-as-countries-struggle-to-pay.html

    Buck up ChiComs, being told to write off your non-performing Tanzanian debt is a right of passage for a global power.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEL65gywwHQ

    Replies: @Mr McKenna

    Well, the USA is well on its way toward being a third-world country now, and I do happen to know some debt the Chinese could write off, and (if we had nads) whether they want to or not.

    We can call it a down payment on their debt to humanity.

    • Agree: Lot
  72. @kaganovitch
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Most (ca. 95%) of all current MLBers would fit your definition of “idiot savant”. They can barely function in the real world


    Not to put too fine a point on it, this is entirely deranged.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Exactly, it is deranged that playing a kid’s game makes many players wealthy beyond the dreams of King Midas. But, that’s the free market for you.

  73. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    All I know about Joe DiMaggio was what I learned from the well regarded Richard Ben Cramer biography. I could care less about baseball but was OCD about Marilyn Monroe (I still sort of follow the coverage on her, but since everyone who ever knew her is pretty much dead now there is little more to learn-there are now over 800 books currently or formerly in print about her, but mostly because they still sell).

    From the quoted dialogue and from what clips I've read of interviews and discussions of him, it seems like he might have been a borderline "idiot savant": a genius about baseball and essentially stupid about everything else, a man who kept garbage bags full of cash from paid autograph signings in his house (he didn't pay tax, but no one bothered him because he was Joe D) , someone whose entire existence was lubricated by his reputation and status and mystique but without which he would have basically been the stereotypical dumb guinea.

    He married the most famous and desirable movie star of her (or, as it turned out, anyone's) day, watched TV in the hotel on their honeymoon every minute when not fucking, smacked her around and expected her to be a typical housewife one hundred percent of the time.....I mean, morals and desires aside, that in addition just screams stupid. After she died he went out and tried to nail every actress that reminded him of Monroe, hating and denouncing Hollywood all the while for having, along with the Kennedys, killed his beloved Marilyn. (I can't help but think that had he had a little real smarts he could have done a lot to get to the bottom of what really did happen. I strongly suspect she was killed by the medical incompetence and overly invasive actions of psychiatrist Ralph Greenson and the aide he'd hired for her, Eunice Murray; the situation was much like that with Beach Boy Brian Wilson and his shrink Landy, but Wilson escaped and Monroe did not.)

    Outside baseball, he did nothing particularly smart, said nothing smart, he had one kid who OD'd on crack at 65 six months after the old man died and whose entire life was one fuckup after another-another "Walt", a living Hard Luck Schleprock. Does anyone know if there was any objective testing on him that would support or disprove this? He was in the military for awhile, are his test scores available?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Anonymous, @Morris Applebaum IV

    He married the most famous and desirable movie star of her (or, as it turned out, anyone’s) day, watched TV in the hotel on their honeymoon every minute when not fucking, smacked her around and expected her to be a typical housewife one hundred percent of the time…..I mean, morals and desires aside, that in addition just screams stupid.

    You do realize that, while this sort of behavior may seem distasteful, especially today, there’s nothing inherently “stupid” about it, don’t you? Most men would behave this way if they could get away with it. But most men aren’t 50s era superstar athletes and among the most famous men in America. DiMaggio was, so he could.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Stupid because even then, a woman of independent assets could and would ditch you. Especially one with one divorce already in the can and unencumbered by Catholic guilt or Catholic row house family pressure to stay married.

    A young Italian stallion could marry a young woman, hopefully knock her up, and then knock her around a little. She wasn’t going to leave. Where was she going to go? Divorce meant disgrace. Parents weren’t taking her back. With no skills she wasn’t going to support herself and the kids. Who the hell did she think she was, Marilyn Monroe?

    But Joe forgot one thing. This girl WAS Marilyn Monroe. He eventually figured that out, but too late.

    For Joe, August of ‘62 to March ‘99 was a long, long, long time. But I’m not sure he learned all that much.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @AnotherDad
    @Anonymous



    He married the most famous and desirable movie star of her (or, as it turned out, anyone’s) day, watched TV in the hotel on their honeymoon every minute when not fucking, smacked her around and expected her to be a typical housewife one hundred percent of the time…..I mean, morals and desires aside, that in addition just screams stupid.
     
    You do realize that, while this sort of behavior may seem distasteful, especially today, there’s nothing inherently “stupid” about it, don’t you? Most men would behave this way if they could get away with it.
     
    I consider myself to be pretty generic in these sorts of matters, and i have zero desire to smack a woman around. My guess is that's true of 90% of guys. (There are some sociopaths out there, but they aren't the majority.)

    Enjoying your wife, wanting her to be a dutiful housewife, watching some tube ... sure. I think that's pretty normal. (Though i think most guys on their honeymoon would want to enjoy time with their wife beyond the sex, not just park their ass in front of the tube.) But smacking her around. No.


    (No whether any of this is actually what happened? The two people who were there aren't talking.)
  74. @Anonymous (n)
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    I think it's time you change your handle to Je Suis Troll in keeping to the spirit of your comments.

    Replies: @BenKenobi

    JSOM is providing a valuable, if occasionally a tad too iconoclastic, counterpoint to the prevailing “wisdom”

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @BenKenobi

    Strikes me more as Anti-Wisdom.

    , @Mr McKenna
    @BenKenobi

    Iconoclastic? Why, he's single-handedly raising the level of discourse of the entire site.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/is-it-safer-to-visit-a-coffee-shop-or-a-gym/#comment-3882877

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/is-it-safer-to-visit-a-coffee-shop-or-a-gym/#comment-3882875

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/if-blacks-are-more-at-risk-of-dying-from-coronavirus-should-they-be-ticketed-more-for-not-social-distancing/#comment-3885466

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/whats-the-median-age-of-an-owner-manager/#comment-3885376

    Replies: @HA

    , @Anonymous (n)
    @BenKenobi

    He's engaging in grade school level trolling and contributing negative value. The man is clearly a retard. I say this because only a retard would find sufficient enjoyment in low level trolling to tirelessly continue doing it day after day, month after month. I ask you this as an honest question: how many times can a dude swoop in and type a couple of gibberish sentences about boomers and hoaxes before it's inarguable he's a cretin? A couple, and I maybe chalk it up to bored frustration. Ten, and I'm beginning to seriously question their mental state. Approaching triple digits like Je Suis Troll, and it's clear the man is a full blown tard.

    Replies: @vhrm

    , @Currier House
    @BenKenobi

    This is very important guys and gals. Je Suis is absolutely right.

    Covid affects <0.1% of people. The response negatively affects us all. This is so obvious as to be transparent.

    Live and let live. If you want to isolate, do. But don't interfere with the rest of us who want to live a normal healthy life ! Health is an individual matter. I would have thought the clientele here would see this, seeing as how we are so hostile to affirmative action and other central planning actions that totally are gumming up the works of society. In other words, I'd have thought y'all would be more individualistic and pro-individual choice.

    It gets tiring repeating this mantra of live and let live and look at the numbers. It's frustrating.

    Je Suis is totally right. I personally officially approve of his messages and messaging.

    Replies: @Thoughts

  75. @Hypnotoad666
    @james wilson


    Being stupid is no bar to any professional sport except golf.
     
    I am not saying golfers are dumb, but c'mon, putting a ball in a cup is not cognitive rocket science.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    And neither is hitting a baseball. Especially when compared to cognitive feats such as finding a cure for cancer. Or for COVID-19, for that matter.

  76. @SF
    The number of confirmed cases in the US right now is 0.4% of the population. If the samples were taken on, say April 16, the number was 0.2%, according to Worldometer. So if this study was representative of the US population. It would indicate that uncounted cases are 250% times the number of confirmed cases.

    Replies: @LondonBob

    0.72% sounds high given the demographic measured. Many don’t develop antibodies, there is also a lag, and these aren’t the sort of people who would need to. Add in that there are large number of places in America where the virus hasn’t spread. I don’t think this is out of line with all the many other studies that confirm widespread infection in other places like NY, Stockholm etc.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @LondonBob

    But you can see the problem: NYC, at about 1/40th the US population is partway to herd immunity at the cost of 20k deaths. If you multiply 20k by 2 and then by 40, you get 1.6 million deaths.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @LondonBob, @leterip, @ILANA Mercer

  77. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Anonymous

    If you read Cramer's book on DiMaggio, then you know that Joe didn't really do very much during WW2, except for entertaining the troops and playing some baseball on army camps. He didn't see any actual service, unlike Bob Feller, Ted Williams, or even Yogi Berra, who was at the battle of Normandy and received a medal, by the way. Cramer's book makes it clear that he was pissed off that he was missing out on playing with the Yankees and losing peak years of his career, while the military was making money off his name by having him play baseball on the camps for free. He didn't even want to serve, initially, but his first wife kept insisting that he enlist.

    In short, because he played for NY, and was a winner on the field, DiMaggio was protected by the powers that be. They liked him because he won. Contrast that with Ted Williams who until the last yrs of his life just wanted to be left alone and not bothered and so wasn't as well liked by the press at large. People tend to forget how much sports, MLB in particular, was molded and shaped by the way in which the media covered an individual player. As Jim Bouton stated "If the reporters had told the truth about what went on in baseball, there'd have been no controversy surrounding my book."

    At least Williams served his country with honor, that should be respected. But off the field he wasn't any better, much less smarter, than DiMaggio. Not sure if the Kid was even literate.

    Personally think MM is way overrated. For her time she seemed close to a 9, at best. Today, she wouldn't even register as a 7. But back then in the '50's with the way women dressed and how they tended to look, sure, MM was head and shoulders above most of her competition. The older generations tend to think she's the bees knees. But she's no Pamela Anderson. Or Kim Kardashian for that matter.

    Most (ca. 95%) of all current MLBers would fit your definition of "idiot savant". They can barely function in the real world. But then, with what they are paid per year, they don't have to. The perceptive ones, or at least those who hire the right sort of financial advisors, can hold onto their earnings post retirement and maintain the fiction that they're somewhat competent adults. Of course they don't have to worry; they'll always have their fanboys to clean up after them.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Up2Drew

    Personally think MM is way overrated. For her time she seemed close to a 9, at best. Today, she wouldn’t even register as a 7. But back then in the ’50’s with the way women dressed and how they tended to look, sure, MM was head and shoulders above most of her competition. The older generations tend to think she’s the bees knees. But she’s no Pamela Anderson. Or Kim Kardashian for that matter.

    Pam Anderson has some, but mediocre, acting skills and is dumber than a tree. Her two kids appear to be about as smart as Farrah Fawcett’s one (and Fawcett herself was not particularly dumb, but she made a particularly poor choice of sire in Ryan O’Neal.) Her breasts are implants and her figure is otherwise decent, but again, dumb as hell.

    The Kartrashians are all, uniformly, without any discernible talent whatever besides exploiting the gullibility of a few fans. Can’t act, can’t sing, they are famous for reality TV dysfunction and, like Anderson, ‘sex tapes’ of themselves somehow getting out. (Anderson made two, one with Tommy Lee and another with Bret Michels, both bejingled, Lee not very smart either.)

    Anderson did well on the small screen (Baywatch) and posters, that kind of thing, but was not even a B or C player as a film actress. Barb Wire??

    On the other hand…no one would argue Monroe was the greatest, or even in the top 5, actresses in terms of acting ability. But probably in the top 25 or so. She was better as an actress than she was given credit for, but there is an asterisk: she went to being a Method actress pretty much in mid-stream, usually for people already successful, trying that is sure disaster. It’s an unappreciated but serious achievement.

    But as a movie star: she is unmatched, in terms of putting asses in the seats. She still winds up on magazine covers and has books published on her life, because they sell. People whose parents were not born when she died are still transfixed by her. Every new blond hotsy in film, music, modeling is compared to her, over and over.

    What did she do right? Well, for one, she had the nearly perfect hourglass figure, and she just comes across a certain way in photos, on motion picture film, in art. She was a decent enough actress, and she turned in some key roles at a key pivotal time in American culture. And she left them wanting more: she died at what looking back seems the perfect time careerwise.

    Perhaps that’s one reason Star Trek became the franchise it did: they ended it after three years, it never jumped the shark, and a groundswell of fans built up and it became a cult. Who knnows, maybe that’s how most religions start. I don’t know. But if anyone reading this is still around in fifty years, find out if anyone remembers the Kardashians or Pam Anderson. Then find out if anyone knows who Marilyn Monroe was.

    I bet they do.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    @Anonymous

    Marilyn Monroe and James Dean had that indefinable something which made them riveting screen presences. It wasn't just physical beauty, and it certainly wasn't acting ability, because others outshone them in both departments. But when they were on-screen, you couldn't take your eyes off them.

    I'm not sure how many others there are like that. Maybe Humphrey Bogart; I think Audrey Hepburn and probably Bette Davis. Elizabeth Taylor and Marlon Brando almost qualify, but the former was such a middling actress and the latter ended up in so many middling films, it's hard to say. Perception is often clouded by things like that. Apologies for yammering about Hollywood. I'm happy to say that I know virtually nothing about the Kardashians.

    Replies: @Inverness

    , @Coemgen
    @Anonymous

    There are YouTube videos of Pamela Anderson discussing Julian Assange's predicament on "The View." She sounds pretty bright in comparison to "The View" ladies.

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Anonymous

    As is common for the older generations that have the MM fever, you're allowing the little head to do the thinking for the big head.

  78. So have we really learned that hardly anyone has caught the virus, or that working in MLB is pretty much the opposite of being in prison or a nursing home?

    How many of us have million dollar houses in the suburbs, our own custom gyms and someone to take our calls and run our errands?

    I have a few wealthy uncles with that kind of lifestyle. I wouldn’t expect them to have been exposed. If they were, however, I’d be fairly surprised if one died, even though they aren’t very young anymore.

    Here in the US, we have many thousands of athletes and former athletes. How many have died from coronavirus? I can confidently say that the number is near zero, because I’ve only heard about one guy who was a star basketball player in a NYC high school fifty years ago. If an athlete died, it would be all over the news.

    The latest celebrity death from coronavirus is Roy Horn, a 75yo paralytic whose spine was severed by a tiger in 2003, and who may have been HIV positive. What I’d really like to know is why this virus seems to target the vulnerable. Viruses don’t do that, because they are inanimate objects. They are not even living organisms. They don’t look up nursing homes on smartphones and catch cabs there. So why are so many of these people catching it if it isn’t very prevalent? Shouldn’t it have gone through schools, too? Tons of care home workers are young mothers. Why weren’t their kids infected? Or were they? Or does it just bounce off some people? Why are we wasting time testing MLB workers when these are more important questions?

    The testing in the US has been shamefully lacking in depth. We learn about Tom Hanks and baseball people… What about the rest of us? Are these figures being hidden, or are we really that clueless? It’s past time we got some answers, especially with what’s being demanded of us.

  79. @LondonBob
    @SF

    0.72% sounds high given the demographic measured. Many don't develop antibodies, there is also a lag, and these aren't the sort of people who would need to. Add in that there are large number of places in America where the virus hasn't spread. I don't think this is out of line with all the many other studies that confirm widespread infection in other places like NY, Stockholm etc.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    But you can see the problem: NYC, at about 1/40th the US population is partway to herd immunity at the cost of 20k deaths. If you multiply 20k by 2 and then by 40, you get 1.6 million deaths.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Steve Sailer

    Just to keep some perspective, this is the US CDC mortality data from 2017



    Number of deaths: 2,813,503
    Death rate: 863.8 deaths per 100,000 population
    Life expectancy: 78.6 years
    Infant Mortality rate: 5.79 deaths per 1,000 live births

    Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
    Heart disease: 647,457
    Cancer: 599,108
    Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
    Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
    Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
    Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
    Diabetes: 83,564
    Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672
    Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 50,633
    Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173

     

    The so-called deaths attributed to COVID-19 are likely to draw from several of these categories after all is said and done, so it will be interesting to see the actual so-called "excess deaths" for 2020. It will also be interesting to see what successive waves might bring.

    But in any case, on a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

    It

    Replies: @varsicule

    , @LondonBob
    @Steve Sailer

    I am just not convinced this will spread much outside of urban conurbations, I mostly look at Britain, Sweden and the US and it hasn't made inroads outside of certain areas. Northern Ireland is like much of the US, untouched, whereas London, Birmingham have had big outbreaks.

    Weather, transportation modes seem relevant as this doesn't seem able to spread outside of confined areas, I think there is a ceiling as to how many it can infect and it will continue petering out.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @anon

    , @leterip
    @Steve Sailer

    First. Thanks for running a blog that has not simply turned into an echo chamber of a particular covid perspective. Also, it is interesting how many examples of there are of contradictory covid data.

    I believe the deaths from covid are unlikely to reach 1.6 million as we continue on down our chaotic path to herd immunity. Some reasons that have been articulated on this blog include: First wave takes most vulnerable and super spreaders so IFR and Rt will drop; % Needed for Herd immunity is possibly much, much less than early forecasts of approx 70%; hospitals are unlikely to be overwhelmed going forward, etc.

    It appears we are already seeing some herd immunity impacts in many places. Every location, that has had significant outbreaks (Italy, UK, NYC, Wuhan, France, Spain, Sweden) have all peaked and began to drop off with very similar timing even though the lockdown policies and timing of the policies varied significantly. What else besides herd immunity could have caused this? It will be interesting to follow Sweden and other places such as Georgia that are lifting the lockdowns early to see if there is a second spike. I doubt they will have any problems.

    I prefer an approach that allows people to become infected as fast as reasonably possible even if the fatalities are on the higher end. As others have said this would limit the social, health and economic damage of what we have been doing. In addition, even if I was in a nursing home, I would prefer to be able interact with others normally vs. couped up in my room alone. A few weeks or month or so of isolation would be OK, but I would not want to wait, in my room, a few years until a vaccine program is implemented regardless of the risk of dying from covid.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @ILANA Mercer
    @Steve Sailer

    You think Neil Ferguson and his team at Imperial College will have the last macabre laugh, Steve?

  80. @BenKenobi
    @Anonymous (n)

    JSOM is providing a valuable, if occasionally a tad too iconoclastic, counterpoint to the prevailing "wisdom"

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Mr McKenna, @Anonymous (n), @Currier House

    Strikes me more as Anti-Wisdom.

  81. @BenKenobi
    @Anonymous (n)

    JSOM is providing a valuable, if occasionally a tad too iconoclastic, counterpoint to the prevailing "wisdom"

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Mr McKenna, @Anonymous (n), @Currier House

    • Replies: @HA
    @Mr McKenna

    I've said this before, but if JSOM were a paid employee of the CDC or of some Bill Gates NGO, sent out with the sole purpose of discrediting the corona-truthers, well, it would explain a lot.

  82. @Steve Sailer
    @LondonBob

    But you can see the problem: NYC, at about 1/40th the US population is partway to herd immunity at the cost of 20k deaths. If you multiply 20k by 2 and then by 40, you get 1.6 million deaths.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @LondonBob, @leterip, @ILANA Mercer

    Just to keep some perspective, this is the US CDC mortality data from 2017

    Number of deaths: 2,813,503
    Death rate: 863.8 deaths per 100,000 population
    Life expectancy: 78.6 years
    Infant Mortality rate: 5.79 deaths per 1,000 live births

    Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
    Heart disease: 647,457
    Cancer: 599,108
    Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
    Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
    Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
    Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
    Diabetes: 83,564
    Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672
    Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 50,633
    Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173

    The so-called deaths attributed to COVID-19 are likely to draw from several of these categories after all is said and done, so it will be interesting to see the actual so-called “excess deaths” for 2020. It will also be interesting to see what successive waves might bring.

    But in any case, on a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

    It

    • Replies: @varsicule
    @The Alarmist

    Sorry, but excess deaths are already an obvious signal in the CDC death totals by week. I track this in a spreadsheet each week. Week 15 & 16 in the series are already way above the last six year average, and indeed, above the highest totals of any year. And it's pretty clear to me that Covid deaths are being undercounted, not overcounted. If you subtract official covid death counts from the series, week 15 & 16 deaths are still above the corresponding week in any of the previous years.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Buffalo Joe

  83. An economist from Mars might propose a government policy where all restrictions and quarantines are removed, but everyone gets a (say) $2million Covid-19 life insurance policy.

    If we assume that a maximally effective Covid-19 related lockdown will cause an economic depression half as severe as the Great Depression (when real GDP dropped by 25%), and last half as long (about three years rather than six years) then the cost of the perfect lockdown would be

    $20 trillion annual US GDP x 12.5% x 3 = $7.5 trillion in lost GDP.

    Compare that to 1.6 million deaths x $2 million = $3.2 trillion.

    Chances are, an electorate would take that deal.

    Of course, that tradeoff is highly dependent on the numbers and you can make it come out any way you want, but the point is that it would be very, very difficult and expensive for any government to get its populace to accept a policy where there are a very large number of deaths.

    What might happen in real life, instead, is that with the accruing economic pain, people might simply decide to take the risk, uncompensated, and pressure their governments to let them go back to work and everyday life.

    Which is what seems to be beginning to happen.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @PiltdownMan


    If we assume that a maximally effective Covid-19 related lockdown will cause an economic depression half as severe as the Great Depression (when real GDP dropped by 25%), and last half as long (about three years rather than six years) then the cost of the perfect lockdown would be ....
     
    [ROTFLMAO ] You went the wrong way there. We're on a roll to minus 33% GDP drop from "real" GDP that has been hollowed out by inflation-gaming for the last several decades.

    Stop and think for a minute that our "leaders" are seriously talking about businesses running at 10% to 25% of their previous traffic volumes. This pretty much kills small business, which used to be the job engine of consumer America, and consumer world for that matter. The MMT types tell us, "No worries, we'll just print money so people can keep on shopping," but forget the tiny fact that people are no longer adding the value of their human capital to the transaction to provide the wealth to back the new money.

    FDR dragged GD1.0 out a decade by taking action. We'll be lucky if we aren't in GD2.0 for at least a decade, assuming they don't launch WW3 to "save" us.

  84. @Anonymous
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    Personally think MM is way overrated. For her time she seemed close to a 9, at best. Today, she wouldn’t even register as a 7. But back then in the ’50’s with the way women dressed and how they tended to look, sure, MM was head and shoulders above most of her competition. The older generations tend to think she’s the bees knees. But she’s no Pamela Anderson. Or Kim Kardashian for that matter.
     
    Pam Anderson has some, but mediocre, acting skills and is dumber than a tree. Her two kids appear to be about as smart as Farrah Fawcett's one (and Fawcett herself was not particularly dumb, but she made a particularly poor choice of sire in Ryan O'Neal.) Her breasts are implants and her figure is otherwise decent, but again, dumb as hell.

    The Kartrashians are all, uniformly, without any discernible talent whatever besides exploiting the gullibility of a few fans. Can't act, can't sing, they are famous for reality TV dysfunction and, like Anderson, 'sex tapes' of themselves somehow getting out. (Anderson made two, one with Tommy Lee and another with Bret Michels, both bejingled, Lee not very smart either.)

    Anderson did well on the small screen (Baywatch) and posters, that kind of thing, but was not even a B or C player as a film actress. Barb Wire??

    On the other hand...no one would argue Monroe was the greatest, or even in the top 5, actresses in terms of acting ability. But probably in the top 25 or so. She was better as an actress than she was given credit for, but there is an asterisk: she went to being a Method actress pretty much in mid-stream, usually for people already successful, trying that is sure disaster. It's an unappreciated but serious achievement.

    But as a movie star: she is unmatched, in terms of putting asses in the seats. She still winds up on magazine covers and has books published on her life, because they sell. People whose parents were not born when she died are still transfixed by her. Every new blond hotsy in film, music, modeling is compared to her, over and over.

    What did she do right? Well, for one, she had the nearly perfect hourglass figure, and she just comes across a certain way in photos, on motion picture film, in art. She was a decent enough actress, and she turned in some key roles at a key pivotal time in American culture. And she left them wanting more: she died at what looking back seems the perfect time careerwise.

    Perhaps that's one reason Star Trek became the franchise it did: they ended it after three years, it never jumped the shark, and a groundswell of fans built up and it became a cult. Who knnows, maybe that's how most religions start. I don't know. But if anyone reading this is still around in fifty years, find out if anyone remembers the Kardashians or Pam Anderson. Then find out if anyone knows who Marilyn Monroe was.

    I bet they do.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @Coemgen, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Marilyn Monroe and James Dean had that indefinable something which made them riveting screen presences. It wasn’t just physical beauty, and it certainly wasn’t acting ability, because others outshone them in both departments. But when they were on-screen, you couldn’t take your eyes off them.

    I’m not sure how many others there are like that. Maybe Humphrey Bogart; I think Audrey Hepburn and probably Bette Davis. Elizabeth Taylor and Marlon Brando almost qualify, but the former was such a middling actress and the latter ended up in so many middling films, it’s hard to say. Perception is often clouded by things like that. Apologies for yammering about Hollywood. I’m happy to say that I know virtually nothing about the Kardashians.

    • Replies: @Inverness
    @Mr McKenna

    "Boulevard of Broken Dreams"

  85. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    In contrast, Joe's little brother Dom DiMaggio struck everybody who knew him as intelligent. He had a successful business career after baseball.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Dom seemed way smarter.

    An old priest with experience in the matter told me that with large Irish and Italian Catholic families, with the Irish, generally the kids tended to be more similar in intelligence and character, with the Italians, you could count on a big variation. Usually there would be a clump of several somewhere either somewhat below or above average, almost always one or two idiots, and often, not always, one or two outstanding kids.

    He was that rarity that Trucklin’ Bill Buckley claimed to be, a real Anglo-Irish Catholic, with roots back to Recusants on his father’s side and a Book of Common Prayer discreetly in reach.He said he’d done something he regretted in seminary, wouldn’t say what, and instead of a predictably comfortable career in an upscale Connecticut diocese arranged to be sent somewhere where he could expect to be assigned to a blue collar row house parish. He was. All his fellow priests were Irish, Italian, or Polish. He was an oddball, interested in art, photography, and ham radio. But he worked very hard for his flock. So he had no dog in the fight either way, just reported on what he saw.

    That came to mind when I saw one of Madonna’s sisters on some TV show. Madge might not be genius level IQ wise, but she’s fast, quick witted. Usually trying to go over. This girl had that total deer-in-the-headlights look. Not necessarily stupid, but not situationally aware. Personality wise very different.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    "An old priest with experience in the matter told me that with large Irish and Italian Catholic families, with the Irish, generally the kids tended to be more similar in intelligence and character, with the Italians, you could count on a big variation."

    That's interesting.

    It's possible that Italian culture is more encouraging of exceptional mental talent. It probably has been more encouraging of exceptional artistic talent for a long time. I read an interesting anecdote by an American who had business dealings with an unnamed Italian designer, probably somebody of the renown of an Armani or Versace. The blue collar workers the man hired to manufacture Il Maestro's latest work of brilliance very patiently sat around all night waiting for the genius to make up his mind over the perfect shade of blue: "Il Maestro is a genius and geniuses make difficult demands on the rest of us" seemed to be their attitude.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  86. @Anonymous
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    All I know about Joe DiMaggio was what I learned from the well regarded Richard Ben Cramer biography. I could care less about baseball but was OCD about Marilyn Monroe (I still sort of follow the coverage on her, but since everyone who ever knew her is pretty much dead now there is little more to learn-there are now over 800 books currently or formerly in print about her, but mostly because they still sell).

    From the quoted dialogue and from what clips I've read of interviews and discussions of him, it seems like he might have been a borderline "idiot savant": a genius about baseball and essentially stupid about everything else, a man who kept garbage bags full of cash from paid autograph signings in his house (he didn't pay tax, but no one bothered him because he was Joe D) , someone whose entire existence was lubricated by his reputation and status and mystique but without which he would have basically been the stereotypical dumb guinea.

    He married the most famous and desirable movie star of her (or, as it turned out, anyone's) day, watched TV in the hotel on their honeymoon every minute when not fucking, smacked her around and expected her to be a typical housewife one hundred percent of the time.....I mean, morals and desires aside, that in addition just screams stupid. After she died he went out and tried to nail every actress that reminded him of Monroe, hating and denouncing Hollywood all the while for having, along with the Kennedys, killed his beloved Marilyn. (I can't help but think that had he had a little real smarts he could have done a lot to get to the bottom of what really did happen. I strongly suspect she was killed by the medical incompetence and overly invasive actions of psychiatrist Ralph Greenson and the aide he'd hired for her, Eunice Murray; the situation was much like that with Beach Boy Brian Wilson and his shrink Landy, but Wilson escaped and Monroe did not.)

    Outside baseball, he did nothing particularly smart, said nothing smart, he had one kid who OD'd on crack at 65 six months after the old man died and whose entire life was one fuckup after another-another "Walt", a living Hard Luck Schleprock. Does anyone know if there was any objective testing on him that would support or disprove this? He was in the military for awhile, are his test scores available?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Anonymous, @Morris Applebaum IV

    I’ve never understood why some people are so crazy about Marilyn Monroe, aside from her dying young (which seems to be a very good career move for entertainers and carpenters.) IMO Rita Hayworth and Grace Kelly were both even better looking and vastly more talented and accomplished. Ginger Rogers wasn’t quite as pretty, but was infinitely better at everything else artistic.

    How can anyone not like Joe Dimaggio? He was Joltin’ Joe to my parents and grandparents, and Mr. Coffee to my generation.

    Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?
    Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you
    Woo, woo, woo
    What’s that you say, Mrs. Robinson?
    Jolting Joe has left and gone away

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    Monroe was beautiful,really beautiful. Madonna is not. Nancy Sinatra was correctly described as “a waitress in a pizza parlor.” Debbie Harry is pretty but odd above the neck (big head, high IQ, but odd) and a boy with tits below it. Farrah Fawcett shorn of her hair would have been odd too. Gwen Stefani? Chinny chinny bang bang. I can’t think of anyone since Monroe who has been compared to her who does.

    Dolly Parton, she’s a great entertainer, but....they’re being nice. And let’s not mention Anna Nicole Smith.

    Bodywise, MM’s only rival to me was Barbara Eden, who shared a stand-in (Evelyn Moriarty) with her. I’d say Eden’s breasts and her bottom in isolation were better than Marilyn’s even. But as a total package even neck down Monroe is better balanced, and Eden’s face is just not quite in Monroe’s class. And Eden was no great movie actress: there was a reason she didn’t work in major films after Jeannie. She did an Elvis movie.

    Watch a good MM film or two and get back to us. Watch her face...see how she conveys something without saying it. It gets past the now corny dialogue and the old acting style.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Bardon Kaldian, @Inverness, @Buffalo Joe, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Morris Applebaum IV

    , @Inverness
    @Morris Applebaum IV


    How can anyone not like Joe Dimaggio?
     
    Simple. He was creepy and repulsive.

    Replies: @Morris Applebaum IV

  87. Sean says:

    All in all, this is a pretty interesting Admission Against Interest, because this team of Bhattacharya, Bendavid, Ioannidis, etc had been vocal since March that the infection was more widespread than admitted, and thus less dangerous.

    The number of deaths in NYC has made that hypothesis untenable for some time. Knut Wittkowski said several weeks ago that the international publicity over the disease must have affected people’s behaviour long before the lockdown, and that is why the mathematical models suggesting herd immunity could have been reached before the lockdown were not in accordance with the actual prevalence of infection with SARS-CoV-2.

    Even back in the days of Napoleon’s army marching into Russia and losing 80,000 men to typhus in a month, having body lice (which live in the debris in clothing seams) was widely regarded as a consequence of poor hygiene. Meaning, the average person is wary and has an understanding of how to avoid any and all infections. Many of the people who choose not to travel on the NYC subway system must have always had the possibility of infection as a reason, even before Covid -19 existed. And this is just background low level pathogens like the hepatitis or TB ones . With an epidemic there is Dread Risk which makes for an order of magnitude more caution among a population. Many of the people who choose not to travel on the NYC subway system must have always had the possibility of infection as a reason, even before Covid -19 existed.

    Unprecedented international publicity over Covid-19 was a surely a factor in preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection from spreading as the mathematical models suggested it would. Maybe Dread Risk was an even a bigger anti infective factor than the officially mandated lockdown.

  88. @Steve Sailer
    @Buffalo Joe

    Ronald Reagan used to have a job as a remote baseball announcer on the radio. He'd get a telegram with the outcome of each batter, then make up the balls and strikes in between.

    Replies: @Morris Applebaum IV, @Buffalo Joe, @Stan Adams

    That’s a great story, I hadn’t that.

    Baseball is the perfect radio sport and its decline in popularity is somewhat related to the decline of radio.

    • Agree: kaganovitch
  89. @Kaz
    Anyone have updated excess mortality numbers?

    From the earlier ones I saw around mid april, the results were clear, this virus is actually quite deadly.

    But I haven't been able to find more updated ones.

    This is the only reason why I'm not so quick to dismiss it a as a hoax.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Sideshow Bob

    The FT have some here

    https://www.ft.com/content/a26fbf7e-48f8-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

    and Euromomo here

    https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

    The only caveat is that AFAIK the death rate they’re comparing against is pretty recent, and they don’t actually say what it is, I think it’s the 2015-8 average. So there’s no way of comparing with olden days, like the 1957-8 and 1968 flu pandemics, also Chinese-sourced but unlikely to have come from any lab.

    Hard, consistent data on 1957-8 and 1968, especially for US and UK, seems thin on the Google ground.

    Wiki 1968 – “The CDC estimated that about 100,000 people died in the U.S; most excess deaths were in those 65 and older.” – that’s with no distancing/lockdowns, and we’re already at 80,000 with CV19. On the other hand “CDC estimated that in total, the virus killed one million people worldwide” – and Worldometer gives 284,004 deaths as of now, much lower.

    Wiki 1958 “About 70,000 to 116,000 people died in the United States” – yet wiki 1968 says “fewer people died during this pandemic than in previous pandemics” , although the CDC estimates for 1958 and 1968 deaths, both in the US and world wide are almost identical.

    I think we can say that as far as the US is concerned, CV19 appears on course to be deadlier than both 1958 and 1968. But that’s assuming doctors (for financial or other reasons) aren’t flagging ‘normal’ deaths as CV19, as in the example posted above.

    Anecdotal evidence – so far this year we know six people who’ve died, the youngest in their sixties, the oldest 94. Yet none have been victims of CV19. I do wonder if lockdown is affecting the animal spirits of the elderly, or perhaps it’s just our age.

    More anecdotes from 1957/8.

    https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2020/april/memories-of-the-1957-flu

    “More than sixty years ago, puffing on an untipped Senior Service (we were allowed to smoke in those days) to cover up the reek in a dissecting room at St Thomas’s Hospital, I was struck down by a pandemic virus that had recently evolved in China. By the time I fell ill (its onset was very sudden) the virus had already killed more than 20,000 people in the UK, with 1150 dying every week at its peak, and 80,000 in the US. In the first UK wave, more than half the deaths occurred in the under-55s. It went for the elderly later, in its second wave. It killed quickly: nearly 20 per cent of its younger victims died before getting to hospital and two-thirds were dead within 48 hours of admission. But it has been airbrushed out of history, despite being by far the most lethal pandemic to affect Britain at any time in the hundred years after the ‘Spanish’ flu pandemic at the end of the First World War.

    There was more vigorous debate about its name – why ‘Asian’ flu, why not ‘Asiatic’? – than about its impact on society, despite its lethality. Political memoirs, hospital histories and accounts of the NHS don’t mention it. It put no pressure on Intensive Care Units because none existed; ventilators were in their developmental infancy and were used mainly to treat patients with polio, as well as a few with tetanus, barbiturate poisoning or chest injuries; and there were no arguments about testing because tests were so slow that when the results were reported the patient was either better or dead. The impact of the virus was being measured by excess mortality, the number of deaths greater than expected. It is mentioned in medical and microbiological textbooks but not described in detail except to note that it was of low virulence because it killed many fewer than Spanish flu in 1918-19. “

  90. @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Dom seemed way smarter.

    An old priest with experience in the matter told me that with large Irish and Italian Catholic families, with the Irish, generally the kids tended to be more similar in intelligence and character, with the Italians, you could count on a big variation. Usually there would be a clump of several somewhere either somewhat below or above average, almost always one or two idiots, and often, not always, one or two outstanding kids.

    He was that rarity that Trucklin’ Bill Buckley claimed to be, a real Anglo-Irish Catholic, with roots back to Recusants on his father’s side and a Book of Common Prayer discreetly in reach.He said he’d done something he regretted in seminary, wouldn’t say what, and instead of a predictably comfortable career in an upscale Connecticut diocese arranged to be sent somewhere where he could expect to be assigned to a blue collar row house parish. He was. All his fellow priests were Irish, Italian, or Polish. He was an oddball, interested in art, photography, and ham radio. But he worked very hard for his flock. So he had no dog in the fight either way, just reported on what he saw.

    That came to mind when I saw one of Madonna’s sisters on some TV show. Madge might not be genius level IQ wise, but she’s fast, quick witted. Usually trying to go over. This girl had that total deer-in-the-headlights look. Not necessarily stupid, but not situationally aware. Personality wise very different.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    “An old priest with experience in the matter told me that with large Irish and Italian Catholic families, with the Irish, generally the kids tended to be more similar in intelligence and character, with the Italians, you could count on a big variation.”

    That’s interesting.

    It’s possible that Italian culture is more encouraging of exceptional mental talent. It probably has been more encouraging of exceptional artistic talent for a long time. I read an interesting anecdote by an American who had business dealings with an unnamed Italian designer, probably somebody of the renown of an Armani or Versace. The blue collar workers the man hired to manufacture Il Maestro’s latest work of brilliance very patiently sat around all night waiting for the genius to make up his mind over the perfect shade of blue: “Il Maestro is a genius and geniuses make difficult demands on the rest of us” seemed to be their attitude.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Steve Sailer

    Of course, it also helps that Il Maestro's business was very profitable. Some Italian designers like Armani and Versace become their own personal brand. They transcend their clothing lines and yet remain a part of them in a very iconic way.

    Funny thing. When a CEO of his own clothing line takes additional time to make up his mind regarding the right shade of blue, he's a creative genius and people put up with it. When it's a lower class schlub painter standing on the scaffold, unable to pick the color for a high rise office building, he tends to be shown the door, and finds himself standing in the unemployment line inside of half an hour.

    The Rich are different from you and me.

    Yes, they have more money.

  91. @Steve Sailer
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Thanks for your intelligent, insightful, completely non-kneejerk comment.

    Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Thoughts, @CantSleep, @theMann

    OT:

    Steve, any comment on Joel Gilbert’s Trayvon Hoax documentary and the allegations within? Have you seen this stuff yet?!? I read you regularly and as far as I can remember and via search you haven’t touched on this. I just stumbled upon it with Crump in the news again, but it has been out for months. While not the biggest fan of the filmmaker’s style, his evidence for Rachel Jeantel being a completely fabricated witness in the Zimmerman trial is incredibly compelling, I would say downright convincing.

    As far as I can tell Zimmerman’s recently filed lawsuit should be a slam dunk and meanwhile the media is in almost total blackout/denial on the story.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @CantSleep

    Okay but she was a terrible witness anyway and Zimmerman was acquitted rapidly by the jury.

    What's the story of the documentary?

    Replies: @CantSleep

  92. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    "An old priest with experience in the matter told me that with large Irish and Italian Catholic families, with the Irish, generally the kids tended to be more similar in intelligence and character, with the Italians, you could count on a big variation."

    That's interesting.

    It's possible that Italian culture is more encouraging of exceptional mental talent. It probably has been more encouraging of exceptional artistic talent for a long time. I read an interesting anecdote by an American who had business dealings with an unnamed Italian designer, probably somebody of the renown of an Armani or Versace. The blue collar workers the man hired to manufacture Il Maestro's latest work of brilliance very patiently sat around all night waiting for the genius to make up his mind over the perfect shade of blue: "Il Maestro is a genius and geniuses make difficult demands on the rest of us" seemed to be their attitude.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Of course, it also helps that Il Maestro’s business was very profitable. Some Italian designers like Armani and Versace become their own personal brand. They transcend their clothing lines and yet remain a part of them in a very iconic way.

    Funny thing. When a CEO of his own clothing line takes additional time to make up his mind regarding the right shade of blue, he’s a creative genius and people put up with it. When it’s a lower class schlub painter standing on the scaffold, unable to pick the color for a high rise office building, he tends to be shown the door, and finds himself standing in the unemployment line inside of half an hour.

    The Rich are different from you and me.

    Yes, they have more money.

  93. @Steve Sailer
    @LondonBob

    But you can see the problem: NYC, at about 1/40th the US population is partway to herd immunity at the cost of 20k deaths. If you multiply 20k by 2 and then by 40, you get 1.6 million deaths.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @LondonBob, @leterip, @ILANA Mercer

    I am just not convinced this will spread much outside of urban conurbations, I mostly look at Britain, Sweden and the US and it hasn’t made inroads outside of certain areas. Northern Ireland is like much of the US, untouched, whereas London, Birmingham have had big outbreaks.

    Weather, transportation modes seem relevant as this doesn’t seem able to spread outside of confined areas, I think there is a ceiling as to how many it can infect and it will continue petering out.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @LondonBob

    "Northern Ireland is like much of the US, untouched, whereas London, Birmingham have had big outbreaks."

    On the other hand, some fairly out of the way places have high rates of infection. Barrow, in Cumbria, a pretty depressed town where they make the UK's nuclear submarines, has the highest infection rate per head of population (caveat - maybe they just test more there) at 800 people per 100,000. That still seems low (< 1%) but the UK only has 220,000 confirmed cases out of 65 million (and more) population, a rate of 0.34%.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#category=ltlas&map=case

    Top ten UK infection rate areas

    Barrow-in-Furness (depressed post-industrial, white)
    Lancaster
    South Lakeland
    Gateshead (depressed post-industrial, white)
    Ashford (Kent, first England stop on the Eurostar train)
    Sunderland (depressed post-industrial, white)
    Middlesbrough (depressed post-industrial, white, but a big influx of "asylum seekers")
    South Tyneside (depressed post-industrial, white)
    Carlisle
    Brent (highly multicultural London)

    My theory for the Lakes is comfortably off middle class outdoor types (especially social workers and healthcare people) infected the locals who didn't do much social distancing. I was walking there in February and a lot of people I met had just come back from Italy.

    , @anon
    @LondonBob

    I am just not convinced this will spread much outside of urban conurbations,

    What? It already has.

    I mostly look at Britain, Sweden and the US and it hasn’t made inroads outside of certain areas.

    Rural Georgia and the Navajo reservation in Arizona & New Mexico are not urban.

  94. What percentage of baseball players have died?

    I’ll wager zero.

    “Lock ’em in their homes!”

  95. @CantSleep
    @Steve Sailer

    OT:

    Steve, any comment on Joel Gilbert's Trayvon Hoax documentary and the allegations within? Have you seen this stuff yet?!? I read you regularly and as far as I can remember and via search you haven't touched on this. I just stumbled upon it with Crump in the news again, but it has been out for months. While not the biggest fan of the filmmaker's style, his evidence for Rachel Jeantel being a completely fabricated witness in the Zimmerman trial is incredibly compelling, I would say downright convincing.

    As far as I can tell Zimmerman's recently filed lawsuit should be a slam dunk and meanwhile the media is in almost total blackout/denial on the story.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAw5ykIPOBM

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Okay but she was a terrible witness anyway and Zimmerman was acquitted rapidly by the jury.

    What’s the story of the documentary?

    • Replies: @CantSleep
    @Steve Sailer

    The story is that Rachel was not on the phone with Trayvon. It was an entirely different girl, an attractive, hypersexual, confident girl that was on Trayvon's level and nothing like Rachel Jeantel(who is obese and almost surely retarded). Many people had to have known this. The fraud is COMPLETELY obvious to anyone that had access to Trayvon's phone records, which the filmmaker was able to order all 750 pages via Florida's open laws. Theres an overdose of black-culture stuff including Gilbert needing to visit his pocket urban dictionary half dozen times, mugshots and rapsheets for nearly everyone involved, etc. There is also a fair bit of the filmmakers hamfisted partisan anti-dem politics.

    The bigger concern however should be the adults who perpetrated this, including Crump who is making national headlines again in Georgia, Trayvon's mom who is running for FL office, the complicit prosecution, and the media specifically Matt Gutman of ABC who phone records show talked/texted many times with the real girl.

    Even if you already gave Zimmerman benefit of the doubt(which I did) I think this story is worth your attention, it blew me away learning this happened and how obvious it was. There is a lot more to the story that Gilbert leaves open, and presumably it's not the last we have heard of it since Zimmerman is suing everyone after learning what the filmmaker discovered.

    Mark OMara Zimmerman's attorney impressed me on TV back then but shame on him for missing this. Coincidentally I searched around twitter earlier and it seems he made reference to these allegations for the first time today, saying that he had no idea to someone with the absurd notion that Rachel's fraud was something of an open secret.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  96. The widest testing I know of has been conducted in neighboring Slovenia. This is a small country with ca. 2 million inhabitants. Very thoroughly done.

    Antibodies population percentage? 2%.

  97. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @Morris Applebaum IV
    @Anonymous

    I've never understood why some people are so crazy about Marilyn Monroe, aside from her dying young (which seems to be a very good career move for entertainers and carpenters.) IMO Rita Hayworth and Grace Kelly were both even better looking and vastly more talented and accomplished. Ginger Rogers wasn't quite as pretty, but was infinitely better at everything else artistic.

    How can anyone not like Joe Dimaggio? He was Joltin' Joe to my parents and grandparents, and Mr. Coffee to my generation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOIEwvhG5g

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKXFALasDc8

    Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?
    Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you
    Woo, woo, woo
    What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson?
    Jolting Joe has left and gone away

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Inverness

    Monroe was beautiful,really beautiful. Madonna is not. Nancy Sinatra was correctly described as “a waitress in a pizza parlor.” Debbie Harry is pretty but odd above the neck (big head, high IQ, but odd) and a boy with tits below it. Farrah Fawcett shorn of her hair would have been odd too. Gwen Stefani? Chinny chinny bang bang. I can’t think of anyone since Monroe who has been compared to her who does.

    Dolly Parton, she’s a great entertainer, but….they’re being nice. And let’s not mention Anna Nicole Smith.

    Bodywise, MM’s only rival to me was Barbara Eden, who shared a stand-in (Evelyn Moriarty) with her. I’d say Eden’s breasts and her bottom in isolation were better than Marilyn’s even. But as a total package even neck down Monroe is better balanced, and Eden’s face is just not quite in Monroe’s class. And Eden was no great movie actress: there was a reason she didn’t work in major films after Jeannie. She did an Elvis movie.

    Watch a good MM film or two and get back to us. Watch her face…see how she conveys something without saying it. It gets past the now corny dialogue and the old acting style.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Marilyn Monroe was archetypal. I presume that her character of Lorelei Lee in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes goes back to the book version in the 1920s. But they've never remade the movie because they can't top Monroe in the role.

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Anonymous

    It depends of one's preferences. I've always found her too meaty & preferred Ava Gardner or the incomparable Greta (not Thunberg).

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Inverness
    @Anonymous

    To make your post more fun, I read it aloud in my best Dan Aykroyd voice.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Anonymous

    Anonymous 248, There was a service station at the corner of my street when I was growing up, classic nude Monroe calendar on the wall. Used to refill the air in my bike tires 20-30 times a week. The dress she wore in "Some Like it Hot" was spray painted on her. But there were lots of hot actresses from that generation. Look for a photo of Ann Sheridan wearing a sweater in "The Man Who Came to Dinner." That's hot.

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Anonymous

    It truly must be a generational thing. Most men under 45 simply don't think of MM as the epitome of sexiness, hotness, and beauty. 20th Century Fox (and later independent) producer David Brown, who worked at Fox during MM's prime, shared a key insight: MM was never as big during her lifetime as she has become after her death. She never was in a single film where she was the main star. Not once. She was always in films where there was an ensemble cast. During her lifetime she wasn't considered up to the talent of even a third rate actress. Oftentimes the way she spoke her dialogue sounded fake, forced, and stilted. What she was known for was her T and A, much like today's THOT's and pornstars. Really isn't any different. Her marriage to DiMaggio got her more notoriety than she had previously had.

    People forget that MM started out in a couple legendary films and didn't make much of a splash in them. Example, Oscar winning 1950 film, All About Eve. She's in a minor scene, but certainly doesn't steal it away from the other actors. Anne Baxter in her prime was just as beautiful a face and figure as MM, and she was a much talented actress as well. Bette Davis as an actress was considered one of the gold standards of Classic Hollywood.

    David Brown's insight was correct. During her life she wasn't anywhere near the icon she became after
    her death. But again, it's mostly older generations who seem obsessed with MM, who wasn't much above the level of two bit whore. That MM had a major career at all was largely because during the '50's, most Hollywood women had a certain stale look, with laquered poodle style haircuts and didn't exude (or weren't permitted to exude) much in the way of sexual energy, period. If MM had survived into the '60's and '70's, she'd have had a much tougher time competing with the next generation of women who were far prettier than she ever was.

    From a genetics point of view, US women over the last 60 yrs have only gotten more beautiful. One can see it in the old HS yearbooks. Just from a basic looks department, ordinary women today, right now, are far more attractive than someone like MM.

    Could name other actresses and famous models of the generation after her that were far, far better looking. Katherine DeNeuve, Ursula Andress, Raquel Welch, Jane Fonda, and of course the near perfect 10's Bo Derek and Christie Brinkley. Linda Evans is another one. MM had absolutely nothing over Christie Brinkley. Brinkley is a perfect 10, MM doesn't even come close.

    Perfect 10's simply don't exist. Except for Christie Brinkley.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Buffalo Joe

    , @Morris Applebaum IV
    @Anonymous

    "Watch a good MM film or two and get back to us. "


    I've seen everyone of her films (excluding a couple of sucky 1940s ones where she had cameo roles), most many times. My favorite performance of hers is in the Misfits and I thought she was most beautiful in Asphalt Jungle, though her role was fairly minor. I like her well enough, but don't think she can compare with (real) princesses like Grace Kelly and especially Rita Hayworth. It's like comparing Joe DiMaggio to Babe Ruth. I prefer DiMaggio, but I realize he wasn't as good.

    I have no doubt that if Marilyn Monroe were a 94 year old woman that we've been watching age our entire lives, she wouldn't be nearly as popular. Like I said, dying young can be a great career movie, but it's not to be recommended.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Buffalo Joe

  98. @PiltdownMan
    An economist from Mars might propose a government policy where all restrictions and quarantines are removed, but everyone gets a (say) $2million Covid-19 life insurance policy.

    If we assume that a maximally effective Covid-19 related lockdown will cause an economic depression half as severe as the Great Depression (when real GDP dropped by 25%), and last half as long (about three years rather than six years) then the cost of the perfect lockdown would be

    $20 trillion annual US GDP x 12.5% x 3 = $7.5 trillion in lost GDP.

    Compare that to 1.6 million deaths x $2 million = $3.2 trillion.

    Chances are, an electorate would take that deal.

    Of course, that tradeoff is highly dependent on the numbers and you can make it come out any way you want, but the point is that it would be very, very difficult and expensive for any government to get its populace to accept a policy where there are a very large number of deaths.

    What might happen in real life, instead, is that with the accruing economic pain, people might simply decide to take the risk, uncompensated, and pressure their governments to let them go back to work and everyday life.

    Which is what seems to be beginning to happen.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    If we assume that a maximally effective Covid-19 related lockdown will cause an economic depression half as severe as the Great Depression (when real GDP dropped by 25%), and last half as long (about three years rather than six years) then the cost of the perfect lockdown would be ….

    [ROTFLMAO ] You went the wrong way there. We’re on a roll to minus 33% GDP drop from “real” GDP that has been hollowed out by inflation-gaming for the last several decades.

    Stop and think for a minute that our “leaders” are seriously talking about businesses running at 10% to 25% of their previous traffic volumes. This pretty much kills small business, which used to be the job engine of consumer America, and consumer world for that matter. The MMT types tell us, “No worries, we’ll just print money so people can keep on shopping,” but forget the tiny fact that people are no longer adding the value of their human capital to the transaction to provide the wealth to back the new money.

    FDR dragged GD1.0 out a decade by taking action. We’ll be lucky if we aren’t in GD2.0 for at least a decade, assuming they don’t launch WW3 to “save” us.

  99. @LondonBob
    @Steve Sailer

    I am just not convinced this will spread much outside of urban conurbations, I mostly look at Britain, Sweden and the US and it hasn't made inroads outside of certain areas. Northern Ireland is like much of the US, untouched, whereas London, Birmingham have had big outbreaks.

    Weather, transportation modes seem relevant as this doesn't seem able to spread outside of confined areas, I think there is a ceiling as to how many it can infect and it will continue petering out.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @anon

    “Northern Ireland is like much of the US, untouched, whereas London, Birmingham have had big outbreaks.”

    On the other hand, some fairly out of the way places have high rates of infection. Barrow, in Cumbria, a pretty depressed town where they make the UK’s nuclear submarines, has the highest infection rate per head of population (caveat – maybe they just test more there) at 800 people per 100,000. That still seems low (< 1%) but the UK only has 220,000 confirmed cases out of 65 million (and more) population, a rate of 0.34%.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#category=ltlas&map=case

    Top ten UK infection rate areas

    Barrow-in-Furness (depressed post-industrial, white)
    Lancaster
    South Lakeland
    Gateshead (depressed post-industrial, white)
    Ashford (Kent, first England stop on the Eurostar train)
    Sunderland (depressed post-industrial, white)
    Middlesbrough (depressed post-industrial, white, but a big influx of "asylum seekers")
    South Tyneside (depressed post-industrial, white)
    Carlisle
    Brent (highly multicultural London)

    My theory for the Lakes is comfortably off middle class outdoor types (especially social workers and healthcare people) infected the locals who didn't do much social distancing. I was walking there in February and a lot of people I met had just come back from Italy.

  100. @Steve Sailer
    @CantSleep

    Okay but she was a terrible witness anyway and Zimmerman was acquitted rapidly by the jury.

    What's the story of the documentary?

    Replies: @CantSleep

    The story is that Rachel was not on the phone with Trayvon. It was an entirely different girl, an attractive, hypersexual, confident girl that was on Trayvon’s level and nothing like Rachel Jeantel(who is obese and almost surely retarded). Many people had to have known this. The fraud is COMPLETELY obvious to anyone that had access to Trayvon’s phone records, which the filmmaker was able to order all 750 pages via Florida’s open laws. Theres an overdose of black-culture stuff including Gilbert needing to visit his pocket urban dictionary half dozen times, mugshots and rapsheets for nearly everyone involved, etc. There is also a fair bit of the filmmakers hamfisted partisan anti-dem politics.

    The bigger concern however should be the adults who perpetrated this, including Crump who is making national headlines again in Georgia, Trayvon’s mom who is running for FL office, the complicit prosecution, and the media specifically Matt Gutman of ABC who phone records show talked/texted many times with the real girl.

    Even if you already gave Zimmerman benefit of the doubt(which I did) I think this story is worth your attention, it blew me away learning this happened and how obvious it was. There is a lot more to the story that Gilbert leaves open, and presumably it’s not the last we have heard of it since Zimmerman is suing everyone after learning what the filmmaker discovered.

    Mark OMara Zimmerman’s attorney impressed me on TV back then but shame on him for missing this. Coincidentally I searched around twitter earlier and it seems he made reference to these allegations for the first time today, saying that he had no idea to someone with the absurd notion that Rachel’s fraud was something of an open secret.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @CantSleep

    OK, but _why_ was an obese retard substituted for this apparently hot chick? Help me out here. I'm sure somewhere in this movie they must offer a reason for going to this amount of trouble, but somebody, please, spell it out for me.

    Replies: @CantSleep

  101. @CantSleep
    @Steve Sailer

    The story is that Rachel was not on the phone with Trayvon. It was an entirely different girl, an attractive, hypersexual, confident girl that was on Trayvon's level and nothing like Rachel Jeantel(who is obese and almost surely retarded). Many people had to have known this. The fraud is COMPLETELY obvious to anyone that had access to Trayvon's phone records, which the filmmaker was able to order all 750 pages via Florida's open laws. Theres an overdose of black-culture stuff including Gilbert needing to visit his pocket urban dictionary half dozen times, mugshots and rapsheets for nearly everyone involved, etc. There is also a fair bit of the filmmakers hamfisted partisan anti-dem politics.

    The bigger concern however should be the adults who perpetrated this, including Crump who is making national headlines again in Georgia, Trayvon's mom who is running for FL office, the complicit prosecution, and the media specifically Matt Gutman of ABC who phone records show talked/texted many times with the real girl.

    Even if you already gave Zimmerman benefit of the doubt(which I did) I think this story is worth your attention, it blew me away learning this happened and how obvious it was. There is a lot more to the story that Gilbert leaves open, and presumably it's not the last we have heard of it since Zimmerman is suing everyone after learning what the filmmaker discovered.

    Mark OMara Zimmerman's attorney impressed me on TV back then but shame on him for missing this. Coincidentally I searched around twitter earlier and it seems he made reference to these allegations for the first time today, saying that he had no idea to someone with the absurd notion that Rachel's fraud was something of an open secret.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    OK, but _why_ was an obese retard substituted for this apparently hot chick? Help me out here. I’m sure somewhere in this movie they must offer a reason for going to this amount of trouble, but somebody, please, spell it out for me.

    • Replies: @CantSleep
    @Steve Sailer

    This ear-witness was the only serious evidence against Zimmerman that they had. Zimmerman wasn't even arrested or charged until this witness came forward, weeks later. The acquittal in this trial kick-started BLM, I don't think the importance can be understated.

    The original girl didn't want to lie under oath and/or didn't want her REAL boyfriend to find out she was cheating with Trayvon, a speculative hypothesis but the filmmaker makes strong case this is so via those involved having very active public twitter accounts in 2012 that were still archived.

    Given the Crump connection I think there is very good chance that this Trayvon story will blow up in proportion to whatever happens in Georgia. The youtube video shockingly low only at 50k views. If Crump keeps showing his face on TV and stirring up the racial stuff then someone on the right is going to come across this and fire it back and it could take off from there.


    Here is O'mara's tweet from today that was randomly jumping in to defend himself in a thread that was months old.


    https://twitter.com/Markomaralaw/status/1259621829972578304?s=20

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  102. So the logic runs something like this:

    Social distancing inhibits the onset of herd immunity.

    We must social distance until herd immunity is widespread enough to not have to social distance.

    If herd immunity is not high enough, we must continue to social distance until it is, even though we know social distancing inhibits the onset of herd immunity.

    All this carnival ride needs is horn for me to beep incessantly.

    • Thanks: kaganovitch
  103. @Anonymous
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    Monroe was beautiful,really beautiful. Madonna is not. Nancy Sinatra was correctly described as “a waitress in a pizza parlor.” Debbie Harry is pretty but odd above the neck (big head, high IQ, but odd) and a boy with tits below it. Farrah Fawcett shorn of her hair would have been odd too. Gwen Stefani? Chinny chinny bang bang. I can’t think of anyone since Monroe who has been compared to her who does.

    Dolly Parton, she’s a great entertainer, but....they’re being nice. And let’s not mention Anna Nicole Smith.

    Bodywise, MM’s only rival to me was Barbara Eden, who shared a stand-in (Evelyn Moriarty) with her. I’d say Eden’s breasts and her bottom in isolation were better than Marilyn’s even. But as a total package even neck down Monroe is better balanced, and Eden’s face is just not quite in Monroe’s class. And Eden was no great movie actress: there was a reason she didn’t work in major films after Jeannie. She did an Elvis movie.

    Watch a good MM film or two and get back to us. Watch her face...see how she conveys something without saying it. It gets past the now corny dialogue and the old acting style.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Bardon Kaldian, @Inverness, @Buffalo Joe, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Morris Applebaum IV

    Marilyn Monroe was archetypal. I presume that her character of Lorelei Lee in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes goes back to the book version in the 1920s. But they’ve never remade the movie because they can’t top Monroe in the role.

  104. Anonymous[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    He married the most famous and desirable movie star of her (or, as it turned out, anyone’s) day, watched TV in the hotel on their honeymoon every minute when not fucking, smacked her around and expected her to be a typical housewife one hundred percent of the time…..I mean, morals and desires aside, that in addition just screams stupid.
     
    You do realize that, while this sort of behavior may seem distasteful, especially today, there's nothing inherently "stupid" about it, don't you? Most men would behave this way if they could get away with it. But most men aren't 50s era superstar athletes and among the most famous men in America. DiMaggio was, so he could.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @AnotherDad

    Stupid because even then, a woman of independent assets could and would ditch you. Especially one with one divorce already in the can and unencumbered by Catholic guilt or Catholic row house family pressure to stay married.

    A young Italian stallion could marry a young woman, hopefully knock her up, and then knock her around a little. She wasn’t going to leave. Where was she going to go? Divorce meant disgrace. Parents weren’t taking her back. With no skills she wasn’t going to support herself and the kids. Who the hell did she think she was, Marilyn Monroe?

    But Joe forgot one thing. This girl WAS Marilyn Monroe. He eventually figured that out, but too late.

    For Joe, August of ‘62 to March ‘99 was a long, long, long time. But I’m not sure he learned all that much.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    People like stories about the DiMaggio-Monroe marriage because they weren't too bright, which makes them more sympathetic. In the stage era, people like bright characters, like Hamlet. In the movie era, people like not-so-bright characters. Thus, everybody's favorite anecdote from Gay Talese's 1974 article on Joltin' Joe:

    "Joe,” said Marilyn Monroe, just back from Korea, "you never heard such cheering.”

    "Yes I have,” Joe DiMaggio answered.
     

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Buzz Mohawk

  105. @BenKenobi
    @Anonymous (n)

    JSOM is providing a valuable, if occasionally a tad too iconoclastic, counterpoint to the prevailing "wisdom"

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Mr McKenna, @Anonymous (n), @Currier House

    He’s engaging in grade school level trolling and contributing negative value. The man is clearly a retard. I say this because only a retard would find sufficient enjoyment in low level trolling to tirelessly continue doing it day after day, month after month. I ask you this as an honest question: how many times can a dude swoop in and type a couple of gibberish sentences about boomers and hoaxes before it’s inarguable he’s a cretin? A couple, and I maybe chalk it up to bored frustration. Ten, and I’m beginning to seriously question their mental state. Approaching triple digits like Je Suis Troll, and it’s clear the man is a full blown tard.

    • Replies: @vhrm
    @Anonymous (n)

    He's not low IQ. He's just being a jerk for some reason.

  106. @Anonymous
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    Monroe was beautiful,really beautiful. Madonna is not. Nancy Sinatra was correctly described as “a waitress in a pizza parlor.” Debbie Harry is pretty but odd above the neck (big head, high IQ, but odd) and a boy with tits below it. Farrah Fawcett shorn of her hair would have been odd too. Gwen Stefani? Chinny chinny bang bang. I can’t think of anyone since Monroe who has been compared to her who does.

    Dolly Parton, she’s a great entertainer, but....they’re being nice. And let’s not mention Anna Nicole Smith.

    Bodywise, MM’s only rival to me was Barbara Eden, who shared a stand-in (Evelyn Moriarty) with her. I’d say Eden’s breasts and her bottom in isolation were better than Marilyn’s even. But as a total package even neck down Monroe is better balanced, and Eden’s face is just not quite in Monroe’s class. And Eden was no great movie actress: there was a reason she didn’t work in major films after Jeannie. She did an Elvis movie.

    Watch a good MM film or two and get back to us. Watch her face...see how she conveys something without saying it. It gets past the now corny dialogue and the old acting style.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Bardon Kaldian, @Inverness, @Buffalo Joe, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Morris Applebaum IV

    It depends of one’s preferences. I’ve always found her too meaty & preferred Ava Gardner or the incomparable Greta (not Thunberg).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I love Ava Gardner, also an underrated actress, and a smoldering sex bomb of the first order. But Ava, who had a smidgen of the tar brush in the woodpile, was thicker than MM.

    It’s hard to judge because there are no known nudes of Gardner, or even very revealing bottom curve shots (she was self-conscious about her rear) but she was certainly no hourglass.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

  107. @Morris Applebaum IV
    @Anonymous

    I've never understood why some people are so crazy about Marilyn Monroe, aside from her dying young (which seems to be a very good career move for entertainers and carpenters.) IMO Rita Hayworth and Grace Kelly were both even better looking and vastly more talented and accomplished. Ginger Rogers wasn't quite as pretty, but was infinitely better at everything else artistic.

    How can anyone not like Joe Dimaggio? He was Joltin' Joe to my parents and grandparents, and Mr. Coffee to my generation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOIEwvhG5g

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKXFALasDc8

    Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?
    Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you
    Woo, woo, woo
    What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson?
    Jolting Joe has left and gone away

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Inverness

    How can anyone not like Joe Dimaggio?

    Simple. He was creepy and repulsive.

    • Replies: @Morris Applebaum IV
    @Inverness

    Because he was a dunker?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae6IMqpc5ws

  108. @Mr McKenna
    @Anonymous

    Marilyn Monroe and James Dean had that indefinable something which made them riveting screen presences. It wasn't just physical beauty, and it certainly wasn't acting ability, because others outshone them in both departments. But when they were on-screen, you couldn't take your eyes off them.

    I'm not sure how many others there are like that. Maybe Humphrey Bogart; I think Audrey Hepburn and probably Bette Davis. Elizabeth Taylor and Marlon Brando almost qualify, but the former was such a middling actress and the latter ended up in so many middling films, it's hard to say. Perception is often clouded by things like that. Apologies for yammering about Hollywood. I'm happy to say that I know virtually nothing about the Kardashians.

    Replies: @Inverness

    “Boulevard of Broken Dreams”

  109. @Anonymous
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    Monroe was beautiful,really beautiful. Madonna is not. Nancy Sinatra was correctly described as “a waitress in a pizza parlor.” Debbie Harry is pretty but odd above the neck (big head, high IQ, but odd) and a boy with tits below it. Farrah Fawcett shorn of her hair would have been odd too. Gwen Stefani? Chinny chinny bang bang. I can’t think of anyone since Monroe who has been compared to her who does.

    Dolly Parton, she’s a great entertainer, but....they’re being nice. And let’s not mention Anna Nicole Smith.

    Bodywise, MM’s only rival to me was Barbara Eden, who shared a stand-in (Evelyn Moriarty) with her. I’d say Eden’s breasts and her bottom in isolation were better than Marilyn’s even. But as a total package even neck down Monroe is better balanced, and Eden’s face is just not quite in Monroe’s class. And Eden was no great movie actress: there was a reason she didn’t work in major films after Jeannie. She did an Elvis movie.

    Watch a good MM film or two and get back to us. Watch her face...see how she conveys something without saying it. It gets past the now corny dialogue and the old acting style.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Bardon Kaldian, @Inverness, @Buffalo Joe, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Morris Applebaum IV

    To make your post more fun, I read it aloud in my best Dan Aykroyd voice.

  110. @Steve Sailer
    @CantSleep

    OK, but _why_ was an obese retard substituted for this apparently hot chick? Help me out here. I'm sure somewhere in this movie they must offer a reason for going to this amount of trouble, but somebody, please, spell it out for me.

    Replies: @CantSleep

    This ear-witness was the only serious evidence against Zimmerman that they had. Zimmerman wasn’t even arrested or charged until this witness came forward, weeks later. The acquittal in this trial kick-started BLM, I don’t think the importance can be understated.

    The original girl didn’t want to lie under oath and/or didn’t want her REAL boyfriend to find out she was cheating with Trayvon, a speculative hypothesis but the filmmaker makes strong case this is so via those involved having very active public twitter accounts in 2012 that were still archived.

    Given the Crump connection I think there is very good chance that this Trayvon story will blow up in proportion to whatever happens in Georgia. The youtube video shockingly low only at 50k views. If Crump keeps showing his face on TV and stirring up the racial stuff then someone on the right is going to come across this and fire it back and it could take off from there.

    Here is O’mara’s tweet from today that was randomly jumping in to defend himself in a thread that was months old.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @CantSleep

    So what did the real girl have to say?

    Replies: @CantSleep

  111. @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Stupid because even then, a woman of independent assets could and would ditch you. Especially one with one divorce already in the can and unencumbered by Catholic guilt or Catholic row house family pressure to stay married.

    A young Italian stallion could marry a young woman, hopefully knock her up, and then knock her around a little. She wasn’t going to leave. Where was she going to go? Divorce meant disgrace. Parents weren’t taking her back. With no skills she wasn’t going to support herself and the kids. Who the hell did she think she was, Marilyn Monroe?

    But Joe forgot one thing. This girl WAS Marilyn Monroe. He eventually figured that out, but too late.

    For Joe, August of ‘62 to March ‘99 was a long, long, long time. But I’m not sure he learned all that much.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    People like stories about the DiMaggio-Monroe marriage because they weren’t too bright, which makes them more sympathetic. In the stage era, people like bright characters, like Hamlet. In the movie era, people like not-so-bright characters. Thus, everybody’s favorite anecdote from Gay Talese’s 1974 article on Joltin’ Joe:

    “Joe,” said Marilyn Monroe, just back from Korea, “you never heard such cheering.”

    “Yes I have,” Joe DiMaggio answered.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Marilyn died when I was in diapers and we weren’t show biz folks, so I was never within a thousand miles of her alive. (I have visited her grave, which is odd since I normally do not visit graves and attend funerals only for the very closest of friends.) I have met several old duffers or crones who claim to have waved at her or shook her hand or whatever, but three people who actually had some level of interaction with her. None ever called her dumb. Uneducated, unevenly read, eccentric yes. Dumb never, not one.

    Dick Dale was one. (The surf guitar guy, not the Lawrence Welk singer.) He didn’t know her well but had a couple minutes with her when he did his bit part as Elvis in Let’s Make Love. Said she was compelling, beautiful, quite alert and normal.

    Most interesting was Larry Shaw, son of Sam Shaw. Marilyn’s favorite lensman. Father and son had a turbulent relationship and were estranged when Sam died. But Larry knew most everyone around Sam. I knew Sam had also filmed a certain New York rock and roll band onstage for his friend John Cassavetes and mentioned I knew the singer just a little.

    Larry knew Deb only barely in passing but said something interesting Sam had mentioned. MM was famous for being able to “turn it on”, to be able to walk through a crowd unnoticed until she wanted to “Be Marilyn”. A facial expression, a posture, a little wiggle...and all hell broke loose. Madonna, who had sought him out and then spurned his services, could not do it at all. When she tried she came off like a drag queen. Debbie could do it pretty well.

    Marilyn on film was usually working two roles deep-she was playing this character she created playing the role in the film. When you understand this, it’s like the old saw (true enough) about Ginger Rogers, she had to do everything Fred Astaire did but backwards and in heels. D never did that in films but fronting Blondie onstage, she’s done it for 45 years. And, I suspect she will give us one good movie role when Blondie is done (I think Chris will quit, like Lindsey Buckingham, after what can be salvaged of their current tour, and Debbie is not going out there as Blondie without him). Like Helen Hayes or Jessica Tandy. She’s actress enough and sharp enough to do it: whether anyone wants to give her the right role is the question.

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve, I married my wife at a friend's beach house where Marilyn Monroe and Arthur Miller had stayed when they were a married couple.

    They made the local news back then, with a photograph of them waving from the same balcony where we had our ceremony. Yes, I am bragging about this bit of trivia. I picked the spot partly for that reason, but mostly because it was a friend's house on the beach.

    Our marriage has already lasted a lot longer than Marilyn and Arthur's. I proposed on a Friday the 13th too, on purpose. My humor, you know. I already knew she liked the number anyway, just another weird thing we share.

  112. I’m surprised but I don’t recall seeing in any of the discussion of this Stanford team any mention of Dr Ioannidies’ good work in uncovering the Theranos debacle.

    • Thanks: LondonBob
  113. Man I’m really getting tired of this.

    My new personal Heuristic is this; ALL numbers are bullshit.

    Easy to remember and true. All numbers are bullshit.

    Especially the numbers I agree with. In fact, since I’m agreeing with them they’re probably utter bullshit.

    This is ALL bullshit.

    • Thanks: theMann
    • Replies: @Bleuteaux
    @ATate

    Yup. Numbers could be much worse or much better, I don't think we'll have a handle on which for many years to come.

  114. @CantSleep
    @Steve Sailer

    This ear-witness was the only serious evidence against Zimmerman that they had. Zimmerman wasn't even arrested or charged until this witness came forward, weeks later. The acquittal in this trial kick-started BLM, I don't think the importance can be understated.

    The original girl didn't want to lie under oath and/or didn't want her REAL boyfriend to find out she was cheating with Trayvon, a speculative hypothesis but the filmmaker makes strong case this is so via those involved having very active public twitter accounts in 2012 that were still archived.

    Given the Crump connection I think there is very good chance that this Trayvon story will blow up in proportion to whatever happens in Georgia. The youtube video shockingly low only at 50k views. If Crump keeps showing his face on TV and stirring up the racial stuff then someone on the right is going to come across this and fire it back and it could take off from there.


    Here is O'mara's tweet from today that was randomly jumping in to defend himself in a thread that was months old.


    https://twitter.com/Markomaralaw/status/1259621829972578304?s=20

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    So what did the real girl have to say?

    • Replies: @CantSleep
    @Steve Sailer

    As far as I know the actual girl, Diamond Eugene, and everyone else involved has never been asked about any of this. The filmmaker did eventually track down Diamond Eugene but was still obsessed with the whodunnit that he was stealthy going for (meaningless) handwriting samples instead of just confronting her about Trayvon. He never followed up. He also had an interview with George Zimmerman but it was early in the film and before he discovered all this about the fraudulent witness thus we never get to see Zimmerman's reaction to this reveal either.

    The film is mostly about his investigation. I would make more snarky comments about his investigation and overall style but he deserves credit for seemingly being the only person to discover this. Sadly we don't see any confrontations of those involved with this new evidence, which would have made for a more interesting film.

    I just finished a podcast with Glenn Loury and John Mcwhorter from December and they were both convinced.

    Seemingly not much media anywhere really picks up on it though - strange. The whole story is actually somewhat interesting. I would figure all sorts of anti-[BLM, democrat, fake news, etc] types would eat this story up, I certainly did when I came across it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @anonymous, @res

  115. Anonymous[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian
    @Anonymous

    It depends of one's preferences. I've always found her too meaty & preferred Ava Gardner or the incomparable Greta (not Thunberg).

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I love Ava Gardner, also an underrated actress, and a smoldering sex bomb of the first order. But Ava, who had a smidgen of the tar brush in the woodpile, was thicker than MM.

    It’s hard to judge because there are no known nudes of Gardner, or even very revealing bottom curve shots (she was self-conscious about her rear) but she was certainly no hourglass.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Anonymous


    It’s hard to judge because there are no known nudes of Gardner, or even very revealing bottom curve shots (she was self-conscious about her rear)
     
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/89/f4/74/89f47436e55f79e810f62e07e165b787.gif
  116. @Steve Sailer
    @CantSleep

    So what did the real girl have to say?

    Replies: @CantSleep

    As far as I know the actual girl, Diamond Eugene, and everyone else involved has never been asked about any of this. The filmmaker did eventually track down Diamond Eugene but was still obsessed with the whodunnit that he was stealthy going for (meaningless) handwriting samples instead of just confronting her about Trayvon. He never followed up. He also had an interview with George Zimmerman but it was early in the film and before he discovered all this about the fraudulent witness thus we never get to see Zimmerman’s reaction to this reveal either.

    The film is mostly about his investigation. I would make more snarky comments about his investigation and overall style but he deserves credit for seemingly being the only person to discover this. Sadly we don’t see any confrontations of those involved with this new evidence, which would have made for a more interesting film.

    I just finished a podcast with Glenn Loury and John Mcwhorter from December and they were both convinced.

    Seemingly not much media anywhere really picks up on it though – strange. The whole story is actually somewhat interesting. I would figure all sorts of anti-[BLM, democrat, fake news, etc] types would eat this story up, I certainly did when I came across it.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @CantSleep

    OK, so how much worse would the real girl's testimony have been for the prosecution that the fake girl's testimony was?

    Replies: @CantSleep

    , @anonymous
    @CantSleep

    I watched it and if you make sure to concentrate on just the evidence it is pretty convincing that Jeantel's testimony and the letter it was based on were fabricated.

    However the filmmaker's clownish style (e.g. trying on wigs, consulting a voodoo priest, doing silly voice-over impressions of people he's never met) make it seem a lot less reputable. That's probably why it hasn't gotten anywhere near the traction you might expect.

    , @res
    @CantSleep


    I just finished a podcast with Glenn Loury and John Mcwhorter from December and they were both convinced.
     
    Part 1 of that is here. You can see Part 2 in "Up Next" at the right.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxPV9G8G9xM

    Replies: @CantSleep

  117. @CantSleep
    @Steve Sailer

    As far as I know the actual girl, Diamond Eugene, and everyone else involved has never been asked about any of this. The filmmaker did eventually track down Diamond Eugene but was still obsessed with the whodunnit that he was stealthy going for (meaningless) handwriting samples instead of just confronting her about Trayvon. He never followed up. He also had an interview with George Zimmerman but it was early in the film and before he discovered all this about the fraudulent witness thus we never get to see Zimmerman's reaction to this reveal either.

    The film is mostly about his investigation. I would make more snarky comments about his investigation and overall style but he deserves credit for seemingly being the only person to discover this. Sadly we don't see any confrontations of those involved with this new evidence, which would have made for a more interesting film.

    I just finished a podcast with Glenn Loury and John Mcwhorter from December and they were both convinced.

    Seemingly not much media anywhere really picks up on it though - strange. The whole story is actually somewhat interesting. I would figure all sorts of anti-[BLM, democrat, fake news, etc] types would eat this story up, I certainly did when I came across it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @anonymous, @res

    OK, so how much worse would the real girl’s testimony have been for the prosecution that the fake girl’s testimony was?

    • Replies: @CantSleep
    @Steve Sailer

    Presumably, not being retarded, it's possible she could have lied much more effectively and drawn Zimmerman closer to conviction. Alternatively she could've had the conscious enough not to lie, remain neutral and Zimmerman would have never been arrested or charged. And super-alternatively in my fantasy land she could have been honest and admitted that Trayvon was trying to impress her by playing the knockout game with a pudgy hispanic and BLM would have never started as it did.

    I think the broader point is who put these teenage girls up to it. And how so many people facilitated or ignored the hoax.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  118. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "So 0.72% is a long way from Herd Immunity."

    Irrelevant. Young athletic men, prime of life, immune to the boomer remover.

    CoronaHoax.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @AnotherDad, @Neoconned, @Anonymous (n), @Dr. DoomNGloom

    So 0.72% is a long way from Herd Immunity.”

    Irrelevant. Young athletic men, prime of life, immune to the boomer remover.

    not so much for the front office and staff, who must have been about 75% of the sample

  119. Anonymous[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    People like stories about the DiMaggio-Monroe marriage because they weren't too bright, which makes them more sympathetic. In the stage era, people like bright characters, like Hamlet. In the movie era, people like not-so-bright characters. Thus, everybody's favorite anecdote from Gay Talese's 1974 article on Joltin' Joe:

    "Joe,” said Marilyn Monroe, just back from Korea, "you never heard such cheering.”

    "Yes I have,” Joe DiMaggio answered.
     

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Buzz Mohawk

    Marilyn died when I was in diapers and we weren’t show biz folks, so I was never within a thousand miles of her alive. (I have visited her grave, which is odd since I normally do not visit graves and attend funerals only for the very closest of friends.) I have met several old duffers or crones who claim to have waved at her or shook her hand or whatever, but three people who actually had some level of interaction with her. None ever called her dumb. Uneducated, unevenly read, eccentric yes. Dumb never, not one.

    Dick Dale was one. (The surf guitar guy, not the Lawrence Welk singer.) He didn’t know her well but had a couple minutes with her when he did his bit part as Elvis in Let’s Make Love. Said she was compelling, beautiful, quite alert and normal.

    Most interesting was Larry Shaw, son of Sam Shaw. Marilyn’s favorite lensman. Father and son had a turbulent relationship and were estranged when Sam died. But Larry knew most everyone around Sam. I knew Sam had also filmed a certain New York rock and roll band onstage for his friend John Cassavetes and mentioned I knew the singer just a little.

    Larry knew Deb only barely in passing but said something interesting Sam had mentioned. MM was famous for being able to “turn it on”, to be able to walk through a crowd unnoticed until she wanted to “Be Marilyn”. A facial expression, a posture, a little wiggle…and all hell broke loose. Madonna, who had sought him out and then spurned his services, could not do it at all. When she tried she came off like a drag queen. Debbie could do it pretty well.

    Marilyn on film was usually working two roles deep-she was playing this character she created playing the role in the film. When you understand this, it’s like the old saw (true enough) about Ginger Rogers, she had to do everything Fred Astaire did but backwards and in heels. D never did that in films but fronting Blondie onstage, she’s done it for 45 years. And, I suspect she will give us one good movie role when Blondie is done (I think Chris will quit, like Lindsey Buckingham, after what can be salvaged of their current tour, and Debbie is not going out there as Blondie without him). Like Helen Hayes or Jessica Tandy. She’s actress enough and sharp enough to do it: whether anyone wants to give her the right role is the question.

    • Thanks: vhrm
  120. @Steve Sailer
    @CantSleep

    OK, so how much worse would the real girl's testimony have been for the prosecution that the fake girl's testimony was?

    Replies: @CantSleep

    Presumably, not being retarded, it’s possible she could have lied much more effectively and drawn Zimmerman closer to conviction. Alternatively she could’ve had the conscious enough not to lie, remain neutral and Zimmerman would have never been arrested or charged. And super-alternatively in my fantasy land she could have been honest and admitted that Trayvon was trying to impress her by playing the knockout game with a pudgy hispanic and BLM would have never started as it did.

    I think the broader point is who put these teenage girls up to it. And how so many people facilitated or ignored the hoax.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @CantSleep

    Regardless of Trayvon Martin, BLM was a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. All the decades long pent up frustration of perceived police brutality (as well as leaders such as Al Sharpton constantly stirring the pot and ginning up the community to keep them perpetually outraged) was bound to come out sooner or later. Trayvon's death solidified for the black community what thousands, perhaps millions of them have felt at some level every single day: that they're being wrongly persecuted and it's all whitey's fault. Genius Coates has basically made an entire career out of just this sort of trope. So BLM was bound to take off one way or another. The only reason it didn't during the Central Park Jogger incident or Rodney King riots was because the Internet didn't exist at the time of those occurrences.

  121. @Kaz
    Anyone have updated excess mortality numbers?

    From the earlier ones I saw around mid april, the results were clear, this virus is actually quite deadly.

    But I haven't been able to find more updated ones.

    This is the only reason why I'm not so quick to dismiss it a as a hoax.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Sideshow Bob

    excess mortality numbers

    Shutting down the hospitals for normal procedures to be ready for the Coronapocylypse might have something to do with it.

    • Replies: @Polynikes
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    I think that it is likely the shut-downs will produce more death than the virus (one UK institute estimated over 150k more cancer deaths in the next 5 years thanks to the shutdowns). But we would likely see that in future death counts instead of the last two months. I would think so, anyways.

    , @Up2Drew
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Medicare paying $39,000 for a death certificate listing cause of death COVID-19 and use of a ventilator while paying $5,000 for a standard Medicare death certificate might tweak the numbers a bit, too.

  122. @Thoughts
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve we dont develop herd immunity from the flu.

    Five years from today you will look back at those types of comments and go...that was insightful!

    Was reading about Hong Kong Flu and talking to my dad who had it back in the Navy and I am even more convinced this is a hoax.

    Ftr, my dad thinks I already had Corona...And if that was what I had in November then it was the lightest Flu of my life (international travl nov 2nd two week incub)

    However, we both agreed that this is definitely shaping up to be an assasination attempt on Trump

    Trump better not go to a hospital with the sniffles...

    Furthermore same with Biden if he wins...Blind Gossip said Biden has to step down half way through the term and let his vice take over...Corona plays into that perfectly

    It's a hoax guys

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon, @Hippopotamusdrome

    my dad thinks I already had Corona

    Have the experts given us yet a diagnostic list of symptoms that identify a Coronainfection, and how it differs from a normal flu? One might presume that it would have to somehow be “stronger” or something.

    • Replies: @Currier House
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Exactly. Very good point. My father is a pulmonologist on active duty at a large clinic and I speak to him every day and this question has the ring of truth to it to me as well.

    My theory is that Covid deaths are deaths of suggestibility, iatrogenic, and in some cases where TDS infects hospital workers, outright murders.

    They need to reopen the gyms immediately. (And yoga studios, and golf courses.) These establishments are, on balance, public-health positive. If fast food and liquor stores are open, which are, on balance, public-health negative, there is zero justification for the gyms to be closed whatsoever.

    Allow individuals to transact willingly with adults and to seek their own level and style of risk.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    , @epebble
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    A poor man's diagnosis is this: Buy a $30 pulse oximeter, When you are rested, if the reading is below 95%, you may have lung damage, else, no detectable damage. (P.S. The test may fail if you have/had history of severe smoking related lung damage or other lung diseases like pneumonia, emphysema, silicosis, black lung disease etc.,)

    , @Thoughts
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    If you google H1n1 versus Corona you'll get some aggregate health website

    So far, Corona symptoms are On Average Less Than H1n1 symptoms by the people reporting

    I'm too lazy to bring up a window and find the website

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  123. @Snowgrass
    There is the unsavory possibility that COVID-19 antibody concentration recedes over time.

    Bye bye herd immunity.

    Innate immune response would be minimal as this is a novel virus.

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome, @HA

    So vaccine won’t work either?

    • Replies: @Snowgrass
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    A vaccine can, potentially, be another avenue to herd immunity.

    There is lots of hopeful talk about a COVID-19 vaccine and to hear a lot of people's optimism-porn, you'd think there is one ready for human use now.

    Hardly.

  124. @Steve Sailer
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Thanks for your intelligent, insightful, completely non-kneejerk comment.

    Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Thoughts, @CantSleep, @theMann

    For all of Je Suis’s tactlessness, he does have a point, sort of.

    Top level Jocks are almost super-humanly healthy people, and they don’t typically get Flu shots. No H1N1 Flu variant shot, no testing positive for “Corona” virus. It is like a miracle how that works out.

    • Replies: @HA
    @theMann

    "For all of Je Suis’s tactlessness, he does have a point, sort of."

    Given how you've bragged about filling Powerade bottles with your own urine and then tossing them at cars you don't like, I'm not particularly surprised you would think that.

    I mean, I thought the guy who --years after the fact -- would boast about how funny it was to flush a Communion wafer down the toilet with his camera rolling was a peculiar piece of work (and sure enough, it turns out he's a truther, too), but clearly, he's part of a trend.

    Again, if anyone is puzzled about why the truthers don't get more respect, look at some of their self-appointed spokesmen. If these are your kind of guys, and you want to cheer them on, that's your right, but you should realize at some point that you're shooting yourself in the foot.

    , @Currier House
    @theMann

    I have been silently watching the drama transpire between Omar Mateen and Sailer, and I really like that Sailer let Omar's "boomerfag" comment through in the Gyms vs Coffee Shops thread.

    I agree very much with Omar's sentiment, which is, to translate: "we are healthy. Leave us alone. It's a free country. Live and let live. We want to squat and deadlift. If you don't want to, you don't have to. Also, the dread virus affects <0.1% of people.

    Plus there is treatment for it. And exercise and socializing is Prophylactic. So stop with the nanny-state apologetics that lead to ever increasing infringements on our rights."

    The boomer angle is very relevant because we millennials and zoomers have already been dealt a really shit hand, from the 2008 crisis and the 9/11 patriot act stuff before that, and offshoring, and immivasion ... Maybe some of us actually want to get married and have a stable family but we can't what with all the self-destructing of the economy going on. Maybe this frustrates us very much, to see the implosion of American meritocracy.

    And gyms, and socializing, was one great way for us to deal with this and extend our lifespans and periods of potency and relevance. And now y'all boomers "in control" so to speak (those who are established and could speak out if you wanted to or directly contact elected officials) are taking away these refuges from us. JSOM's hostility, in my judgement, is warranted.

    I also agree with Alden's commenting and appreciate and admire her writing style very much. It is a privilege that such people still exist.

    Replies: @Anon, @Thoughts

    , @anon
    @theMann

    Top level Jocks are almost super-humanly healthy people,

    "Baseball employees" were tested. They are not "top level Jocks".

    Reading is fundamental.

  125. @Anonymous
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    Personally think MM is way overrated. For her time she seemed close to a 9, at best. Today, she wouldn’t even register as a 7. But back then in the ’50’s with the way women dressed and how they tended to look, sure, MM was head and shoulders above most of her competition. The older generations tend to think she’s the bees knees. But she’s no Pamela Anderson. Or Kim Kardashian for that matter.
     
    Pam Anderson has some, but mediocre, acting skills and is dumber than a tree. Her two kids appear to be about as smart as Farrah Fawcett's one (and Fawcett herself was not particularly dumb, but she made a particularly poor choice of sire in Ryan O'Neal.) Her breasts are implants and her figure is otherwise decent, but again, dumb as hell.

    The Kartrashians are all, uniformly, without any discernible talent whatever besides exploiting the gullibility of a few fans. Can't act, can't sing, they are famous for reality TV dysfunction and, like Anderson, 'sex tapes' of themselves somehow getting out. (Anderson made two, one with Tommy Lee and another with Bret Michels, both bejingled, Lee not very smart either.)

    Anderson did well on the small screen (Baywatch) and posters, that kind of thing, but was not even a B or C player as a film actress. Barb Wire??

    On the other hand...no one would argue Monroe was the greatest, or even in the top 5, actresses in terms of acting ability. But probably in the top 25 or so. She was better as an actress than she was given credit for, but there is an asterisk: she went to being a Method actress pretty much in mid-stream, usually for people already successful, trying that is sure disaster. It's an unappreciated but serious achievement.

    But as a movie star: she is unmatched, in terms of putting asses in the seats. She still winds up on magazine covers and has books published on her life, because they sell. People whose parents were not born when she died are still transfixed by her. Every new blond hotsy in film, music, modeling is compared to her, over and over.

    What did she do right? Well, for one, she had the nearly perfect hourglass figure, and she just comes across a certain way in photos, on motion picture film, in art. She was a decent enough actress, and she turned in some key roles at a key pivotal time in American culture. And she left them wanting more: she died at what looking back seems the perfect time careerwise.

    Perhaps that's one reason Star Trek became the franchise it did: they ended it after three years, it never jumped the shark, and a groundswell of fans built up and it became a cult. Who knnows, maybe that's how most religions start. I don't know. But if anyone reading this is still around in fifty years, find out if anyone remembers the Kardashians or Pam Anderson. Then find out if anyone knows who Marilyn Monroe was.

    I bet they do.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @Coemgen, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    There are YouTube videos of Pamela Anderson discussing Julian Assange’s predicament on “The View.” She sounds pretty bright in comparison to “The View” ladies.

  126. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Kyle

    If you click my link below, you will come to a very good graph that I have been watching for weeks. Another commenter here provided the link.

    If you read and study there, and if you scroll down to the graph that is aligned so the curves can be properly compared, you will see that Sweden is right in the middle, alongside and virtually indistinguishable from the US and several other countries. You might also ask the question you just wrote, "Is that squashed, or is that what the curve was going to look like anyway."

    It was, just maybe, what the curve was going to look like anyway.

    Now, we all know Sweden didn't just do nothing, but we also know that Sweden did not shut down and destroy the livelihoods of its people.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/daily-coronavirus-covid-19-data-graph-page/#001

    Replies: @Brás Cubas

    Now, we all know Sweden didn’t just do nothing, but we also know that Sweden did not shut down and destroy the livelihoods of its people.

    Plus, they are probably ahead of almost everyone else in achieving herd immunity.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
  127. @newrouter
    @Steve Sailer

    Coronavirus: India cancels order for 'faulty' China rapid test kits

    https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-india-cancels-order-faulty-042432153.html

    Replies: @Brás Cubas

    It happened to England, it is happening in Brazil with ventilators (I guess with tests too, but here I doubt they will notice it). I will never understand how people can be this stupid (though in the case of Brazil it is hard to know whether it’s corruption or stupidity).

  128. @The Alarmist
    @Steve Sailer

    Just to keep some perspective, this is the US CDC mortality data from 2017



    Number of deaths: 2,813,503
    Death rate: 863.8 deaths per 100,000 population
    Life expectancy: 78.6 years
    Infant Mortality rate: 5.79 deaths per 1,000 live births

    Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
    Heart disease: 647,457
    Cancer: 599,108
    Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
    Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
    Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
    Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
    Diabetes: 83,564
    Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672
    Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 50,633
    Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173

     

    The so-called deaths attributed to COVID-19 are likely to draw from several of these categories after all is said and done, so it will be interesting to see the actual so-called "excess deaths" for 2020. It will also be interesting to see what successive waves might bring.

    But in any case, on a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

    It

    Replies: @varsicule

    Sorry, but excess deaths are already an obvious signal in the CDC death totals by week. I track this in a spreadsheet each week. Week 15 & 16 in the series are already way above the last six year average, and indeed, above the highest totals of any year. And it’s pretty clear to me that Covid deaths are being undercounted, not overcounted. If you subtract official covid death counts from the series, week 15 & 16 deaths are still above the corresponding week in any of the previous years.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @varsicule

    Fine, ignoring serious and credible allegations that COVID is being over-attributed as a cause of deaths, looking at the raw death count, maybe your rough analysis is correct for the time being. How abot the ripple effect going forward, since it culled the weakest before a second wave or the flu or whatever can finally take them?

    Then again, not too long before COVID-19 became the Bees' Knees, experts were already talking about this being a really bad flu year, even killing children

    Do we really know how many people are dying from, much less have already been infected with COVID-19?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7Ot2eRIziE

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @varsicule

    varsi, I am glad that you have a spread sheet to track these deaths, but it is pretty apparent that all respiratory illnesses and pneumonia and seasonal flu will go in the Covid-19 column. I have posted this before but in January the Buffalo News and the local TV news stations were all about the death of an 11 year old healthy, active boy who had his flu shot and still died from the "flu". Life is not everlasting, we all die from something and right now, short of a bullet between the eyes, you are the victim of Covid-19.

  129. Anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Anonymous

    If you read Cramer's book on DiMaggio, then you know that Joe didn't really do very much during WW2, except for entertaining the troops and playing some baseball on army camps. He didn't see any actual service, unlike Bob Feller, Ted Williams, or even Yogi Berra, who was at the battle of Normandy and received a medal, by the way. Cramer's book makes it clear that he was pissed off that he was missing out on playing with the Yankees and losing peak years of his career, while the military was making money off his name by having him play baseball on the camps for free. He didn't even want to serve, initially, but his first wife kept insisting that he enlist.

    In short, because he played for NY, and was a winner on the field, DiMaggio was protected by the powers that be. They liked him because he won. Contrast that with Ted Williams who until the last yrs of his life just wanted to be left alone and not bothered and so wasn't as well liked by the press at large. People tend to forget how much sports, MLB in particular, was molded and shaped by the way in which the media covered an individual player. As Jim Bouton stated "If the reporters had told the truth about what went on in baseball, there'd have been no controversy surrounding my book."

    At least Williams served his country with honor, that should be respected. But off the field he wasn't any better, much less smarter, than DiMaggio. Not sure if the Kid was even literate.

    Personally think MM is way overrated. For her time she seemed close to a 9, at best. Today, she wouldn't even register as a 7. But back then in the '50's with the way women dressed and how they tended to look, sure, MM was head and shoulders above most of her competition. The older generations tend to think she's the bees knees. But she's no Pamela Anderson. Or Kim Kardashian for that matter.

    Most (ca. 95%) of all current MLBers would fit your definition of "idiot savant". They can barely function in the real world. But then, with what they are paid per year, they don't have to. The perceptive ones, or at least those who hire the right sort of financial advisors, can hold onto their earnings post retirement and maintain the fiction that they're somewhat competent adults. Of course they don't have to worry; they'll always have their fanboys to clean up after them.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Up2Drew

    MM had a little plastic surgery – nose job and chin augmentation. Pam and Kim followed to a much greater extent. MM’s ass was kind of flat, that’s about my only criticism of her in her enhanced form. Better than Pam and maybe similar to original Kardashian.

    The surgeon was brilliant in imagining who she could be, as he took a girl next door and made her into a smouldering sex bomb. Much more restrained than today’s approach.

    I find the plastic approach off-putting. An ugly person with silicone under skin where their breasts might be is still the same person really, just trying harder to fool the world. Kind of like gender reassignment but on a lesser scale. But there is a market for it evidently.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Anonymous

    Honestly, this verbal cunnilingus of someone long since dead and wasn't all that to begin with during her lifetime, is a bit nauseating. Let it go, grow up, and get a life.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  130. Charles Erwin Wilson [AKA "Charles Erwin Wilson Three"] says:
    @I, Libertine
    @Steve Sailer

    I hate to be that guy, but I am. “Admission against interest” is a redundancy. An admission is by definition against the speaker’s interest. We are taught in law school to avoid it ( or we were in my day), but few of us comply. We use the term “declaration against interest “ for speakers who are not directly involved in the controversy, and therefore couldn’t make admissions.

    I know the way out. No need to call security.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    “Admission against interest” is a redundancy. An admission is by definition against the speaker’s interest.

    Why do lawyers think that they can impose a legal term of art on the rest of us? Could it be that with unlimited hubris comes limitless pedantry? After all, if you can impose a legal system that enriches lawyers while delivering injustice, what can’t you do?

  131. @Mr McKenna
    @BenKenobi

    Iconoclastic? Why, he's single-handedly raising the level of discourse of the entire site.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/is-it-safer-to-visit-a-coffee-shop-or-a-gym/#comment-3882877

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/is-it-safer-to-visit-a-coffee-shop-or-a-gym/#comment-3882875

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/if-blacks-are-more-at-risk-of-dying-from-coronavirus-should-they-be-ticketed-more-for-not-social-distancing/#comment-3885466

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/whats-the-median-age-of-an-owner-manager/#comment-3885376

    Replies: @HA

    I’ve said this before, but if JSOM were a paid employee of the CDC or of some Bill Gates NGO, sent out with the sole purpose of discrediting the corona-truthers, well, it would explain a lot.

  132. @Anonymous
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I love Ava Gardner, also an underrated actress, and a smoldering sex bomb of the first order. But Ava, who had a smidgen of the tar brush in the woodpile, was thicker than MM.

    It’s hard to judge because there are no known nudes of Gardner, or even very revealing bottom curve shots (she was self-conscious about her rear) but she was certainly no hourglass.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    It’s hard to judge because there are no known nudes of Gardner, or even very revealing bottom curve shots (she was self-conscious about her rear)

  133. @AnotherDad

    So 0.72% is a long way from Herd Immunity.
     
    Exactly.

    I'd guess the population wide number is a little higher--my guess would be maybe 10 million Americans--3%. Could be 1% could be 5% but that's the rough ballpark.

    This--blindingly obvious--reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that's why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks, who then roll out these ridiculous statements.

    Weird to me, because "actions of consequences" would seem to be at the root of any analysis of reality.

    Replies: @Kyle, @FreddieY, @Justvisiting, @Polynikes

    This–blindingly obvious–reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that’s why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks, who then roll out these ridiculous statements.

    It is blindingly obvious to any reasonable person.

    Before CV it was just the left wing that was bats&^t crazy.

    Now the right-wing has joined the club.

    The good news is I live in a state (CT) that has been hard hit, so all but the dumbest of the morons “get it” and everyone behaves in public.

    The pictures I am seeing of large crowds without masks shopping is telling me all I need to know about flyover country–I will treat them like the urban ghettos–the natives have convinced me they are stupid and dangerous.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Justvisiting

    Before CV it was just the left wing that was bats&^t crazy.

    Pretty much this. It is very odd, but one of those things. Politics makes strange bedfellows. I was never with the Christian Coalition back when that was a thing even though generally rightist.

    ATM the left is more concerned about CV than immigration or PC, for the most part. Eventually that will change back. In the 2010s, whites were responding to the increasingly obvious genocide drive of Jews like Potok. That gave us a great commonality.

    CV is different. At the moment barring vaccine it is a political battle between those who are in acceptance versus those in denial and anger, for the most part. It is a problem with any solution dictated by the mechanics of infection and the reality of what people will do.

    I regret my hiatus posting here during the earlier months, as every little bit to influence could have helped shape consensus on the right before it gelled.

  134. A mere 0.72% infection rate sounds like a reason to start up the baseball season. I know …”boomer”.

  135. HA says:
    @theMann
    @Steve Sailer

    For all of Je Suis’s tactlessness, he does have a point, sort of.


    Top level Jocks are almost super-humanly healthy people, and they don’t typically get Flu shots. No H1N1 Flu variant shot, no testing positive for “Corona” virus. It is like a miracle how that works out.

    Replies: @HA, @Currier House, @anon

    “For all of Je Suis’s tactlessness, he does have a point, sort of.”

    Given how you’ve bragged about filling Powerade bottles with your own urine and then tossing them at cars you don’t like, I’m not particularly surprised you would think that.

    I mean, I thought the guy who –years after the fact — would boast about how funny it was to flush a Communion wafer down the toilet with his camera rolling was a peculiar piece of work (and sure enough, it turns out he’s a truther, too), but clearly, he’s part of a trend.

    Again, if anyone is puzzled about why the truthers don’t get more respect, look at some of their self-appointed spokesmen. If these are your kind of guys, and you want to cheer them on, that’s your right, but you should realize at some point that you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

  136. Would be interesting to see a comparison to nba players and staff.
    Wouldn’t surprise me if half of them had it

  137. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    There seems to be a lot of confusion over what ages are more likely to get infected versus more likely to die.

    Replies: @Polynikes, @Brás Cubas

    https://www.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/hunting-down-covid-19/

    Another study showing kids are unlikely, or less likely, to transmit it.

  138. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Buffalo Joe

    Carl Yastrzemski just slammed up against the Green Monster, caught the fly ball that was hit off Sandy Koufax by Micky Mantle and threw it to Brooks Robinson at third. Now Pete Rose is caught in a pickle between Robinson at third and Yogi Berra at the plate.

    Now Rose slides head-first and scores a run. He bet on a win.

    How's that for your made up game? Give me a console and I'll provide crowd noises.

    Replies: @SafeNow, @Buffalo Joe

    Buzz, contract is in the mail. Now, work on your signature home run call and don’t forget shout outs to “old timers” in the stands. And occasionally mention that you ate at “Dell Friscos” or “Ruth’s Chris’s” steak house, good for a compted meal. Stay Safe. Safe? Are you F##king blind? He was out by a mile.

    • LOL: kaganovitch
  139. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    It's May 10th. Is everyone dead in Georgia yet?

    Replies: @vhrm, @Buffalo Joe

    XYZ, not everyone, just one black “jogger.”

  140. @AnotherDad

    So 0.72% is a long way from Herd Immunity.
     
    Exactly.

    I'd guess the population wide number is a little higher--my guess would be maybe 10 million Americans--3%. Could be 1% could be 5% but that's the rough ballpark.

    This--blindingly obvious--reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that's why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks, who then roll out these ridiculous statements.

    Weird to me, because "actions of consequences" would seem to be at the root of any analysis of reality.

    Replies: @Kyle, @FreddieY, @Justvisiting, @Polynikes

    This–blindingly obvious–reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that’s why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks, who then roll out these ridiculous statements.

    I guess you would have to define “stepped on hard,” but nothing is blindly obvious. Seems as if you are suffering from your own confirmation bias.

    The places that locked down the hardest: NYC, Italy, NJ, etc… have suffered the most. Other places like California have locked down hard, but have not. There isn’t even a correlation to point to, let alone a causation.

    What we do see is that most transmission is indoors–a surprise to the NY Gov.–and there is the possibility that strict lockdowns made things worse. At the very least the marginal utility of a strict lockdown versus basic social distancing has not be proven to be worth it by any data.

    • Agree: leterip
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Polynikes

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/

    Italy evidently got on top of the transmission in early March. Their approach ultimately has been effective to date.

    Replies: @Polynikes

  141. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Kaz



    excess mortality numbers

     

    Shutting down the hospitals for normal procedures to be ready for the Coronapocylypse might have something to do with it.

    Replies: @Polynikes, @Up2Drew

    I think that it is likely the shut-downs will produce more death than the virus (one UK institute estimated over 150k more cancer deaths in the next 5 years thanks to the shutdowns). But we would likely see that in future death counts instead of the last two months. I would think so, anyways.

  142. HA says:
    @Snowgrass
    There is the unsavory possibility that COVID-19 antibody concentration recedes over time.

    Bye bye herd immunity.

    Innate immune response would be minimal as this is a novel virus.

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome, @HA

    “There is the unsavory possibility that COVID-19 antibody concentration recedes over time. Bye bye herd immunity.”

    That’s arguably the expected scenario — given that immunity for the known coronaviruses lasts about a year or two. So yes, in the same way that you’re able to catch one of the coronaviruses that make up the common cold every couple of years, this new coronavirus will quite possibly have several chances to take you out (if there’s no vaccine or cure) depending on how quickly your immunity and that of the herd’s decays away. And if it leaves you with scarring of the lungs or diminshed lung capacity during any of its visits, that means the next time it comes around, you’ll be one of those people with “co-morbidities” whose demise we can just brush off by claiming you were at death’s door anyway — the way that many people are already eager to do this time around.

    Of course, we could get lucky — perhaps the immunity for coronavirus lasts much longer. (As noted earlier, the Hong Kong flu would have been worse were it not for the fact that some people still had immunity from earlier strains.)

    Moreover, to address one of the followups to your comment, none of that means that a vaccine isn’t possible, though depending on how quickly the virus mutates, a vaccine might need to be periodically rejiggered the way the existing flu vaccine is.

    • Replies: @Snowgrass
    @HA

    Given COVID's coronavirus ancestry we might very be looking at a chronic virus that never stands still long enough for us to lasso.

    Replies: @HA

  143. @Anonymous
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    Monroe was beautiful,really beautiful. Madonna is not. Nancy Sinatra was correctly described as “a waitress in a pizza parlor.” Debbie Harry is pretty but odd above the neck (big head, high IQ, but odd) and a boy with tits below it. Farrah Fawcett shorn of her hair would have been odd too. Gwen Stefani? Chinny chinny bang bang. I can’t think of anyone since Monroe who has been compared to her who does.

    Dolly Parton, she’s a great entertainer, but....they’re being nice. And let’s not mention Anna Nicole Smith.

    Bodywise, MM’s only rival to me was Barbara Eden, who shared a stand-in (Evelyn Moriarty) with her. I’d say Eden’s breasts and her bottom in isolation were better than Marilyn’s even. But as a total package even neck down Monroe is better balanced, and Eden’s face is just not quite in Monroe’s class. And Eden was no great movie actress: there was a reason she didn’t work in major films after Jeannie. She did an Elvis movie.

    Watch a good MM film or two and get back to us. Watch her face...see how she conveys something without saying it. It gets past the now corny dialogue and the old acting style.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Bardon Kaldian, @Inverness, @Buffalo Joe, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Morris Applebaum IV

    Anonymous 248, There was a service station at the corner of my street when I was growing up, classic nude Monroe calendar on the wall. Used to refill the air in my bike tires 20-30 times a week. The dress she wore in “Some Like it Hot” was spray painted on her. But there were lots of hot actresses from that generation. Look for a photo of Ann Sheridan wearing a sweater in “The Man Who Came to Dinner.” That’s hot.

  144. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Thoughts



    my dad thinks I already had Corona

     

    Have the experts given us yet a diagnostic list of symptoms that identify a Coronainfection, and how it differs from a normal flu? One might presume that it would have to somehow be "stronger" or something.

    Replies: @Currier House, @epebble, @Thoughts

    Exactly. Very good point. My father is a pulmonologist on active duty at a large clinic and I speak to him every day and this question has the ring of truth to it to me as well.

    My theory is that Covid deaths are deaths of suggestibility, iatrogenic, and in some cases where TDS infects hospital workers, outright murders.

    They need to reopen the gyms immediately. (And yoga studios, and golf courses.) These establishments are, on balance, public-health positive. If fast food and liquor stores are open, which are, on balance, public-health negative, there is zero justification for the gyms to be closed whatsoever.

    Allow individuals to transact willingly with adults and to seek their own level and style of risk.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Currier House

    Currier, I agree with you, but how can you re-open gyms when miles and miles of beach and hiking trails and cottages and boat ramps are closed? It is all about control, not health.

  145. @theMann
    @Steve Sailer

    For all of Je Suis’s tactlessness, he does have a point, sort of.


    Top level Jocks are almost super-humanly healthy people, and they don’t typically get Flu shots. No H1N1 Flu variant shot, no testing positive for “Corona” virus. It is like a miracle how that works out.

    Replies: @HA, @Currier House, @anon

    I have been silently watching the drama transpire between Omar Mateen and Sailer, and I really like that Sailer let Omar’s “boomerfag” comment through in the Gyms vs Coffee Shops thread.

    I agree very much with Omar’s sentiment, which is, to translate: “we are healthy. Leave us alone. It’s a free country. Live and let live. We want to squat and deadlift. If you don’t want to, you don’t have to. Also, the dread virus affects <0.1% of people.

    Plus there is treatment for it. And exercise and socializing is Prophylactic. So stop with the nanny-state apologetics that lead to ever increasing infringements on our rights."

    The boomer angle is very relevant because we millennials and zoomers have already been dealt a really shit hand, from the 2008 crisis and the 9/11 patriot act stuff before that, and offshoring, and immivasion … Maybe some of us actually want to get married and have a stable family but we can't what with all the self-destructing of the economy going on. Maybe this frustrates us very much, to see the implosion of American meritocracy.

    And gyms, and socializing, was one great way for us to deal with this and extend our lifespans and periods of potency and relevance. And now y'all boomers "in control" so to speak (those who are established and could speak out if you wanted to or directly contact elected officials) are taking away these refuges from us. JSOM's hostility, in my judgement, is warranted.

    I also agree with Alden's commenting and appreciate and admire her writing style very much. It is a privilege that such people still exist.

    • Agree: Thoughts
    • Replies: @Anon
    @Currier House

    I agree, except I'm also hoping for a massive wave of foreclosures so that housing prices go down to a more affordable level.

    Replies: @Currier House

    , @Thoughts
    @Currier House

    Excellent Comment.

    I think everyone under 60...and a lot of people over 70...including my parents...are totally done with this B.S.

  146. Most Baseball players use chewing tobacco. Players using nicotine products will have rates of infection 4 times lower than the non-nicotine using population. https://www.medicine.news/2020-04-25-world-renowned-neurobiologist-says-nicotine-extract-protect-against-coronavirus.html

    Nicotine inhibits the expression of angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) in multiple organs and cell types. Angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) is found in the heart, kidneys and other organs. In COVID-19, the respiratory disease caused by the novel coronavirus, it is thought to play a role in how the infection progresses into the lungs….”When we found that one of the strongest biomarkers, ACE2, was much higher in men than in women, I realised that this had the potential to explain why men were more likely to die from COVID-19 than women,” said Iziah Sama, a doctor at UMC Groningen who co-led the study. https://news.trust.org/item/20200510222331-y953v

    SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, gains entry into human cells by latching onto protein receptors called ACE2, which are found on certain cells’ surfaces.

    The researchers have proposed nicotine attaches to the ACE2 receptors, thereby preventing the virus from attaching and potentially reducing the amount of virus that can get into a person’s lung cells. https://science.thewire.in/health/coronavirus-smoking-nicotine-research/

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Travis

    Travis, chewing tobacco or dipping snuff is a foul disgusting habit BUT, I did both when I smoked. Smoking was a hard quit but chewing tobacco was harder, so much nicotine right into your system. I know cigarettes are bad for your lungs and heart, but I miss a smoke now and then and miss "chew" even more...30 plus years off of both. Now, let me go get my wife and you can explain to her why I should go out and buy a pouch of "Red Man" or "Levi Garrett" or a tin of Copenhagen.

    Replies: @Travis

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Travis

    You didn't tell the full story. Once infected, nicotine addicts are 2x as likely to die from COVID-19 than non-nicotine users. After all, COVID-19 directly impacts the lungs, and most nicotine addicts tend to have weaker lungs (as well as weaker immune systems) than those who don't use tobacco products.

    Also, chew does cause all types of cancer does it not? Yes it does. And, in the case of chew, at a fairly younger age, because chewing tobacco gets into the bloodstream a whole lot quicker than smoking.

    , @William Badwhite
    @Travis


    Most Baseball players use chewing tobacco
     
    No they don't. Its prohibited at the NCAA level since 1990 and in the minor leagues more recently. It was banned for new major leaguers starting in 2015 or 2016, I forget which. Guys in the league before then are grandfathered and can still use.

    Replies: @Travis

  147. @BenKenobi
    @Anonymous (n)

    JSOM is providing a valuable, if occasionally a tad too iconoclastic, counterpoint to the prevailing "wisdom"

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Mr McKenna, @Anonymous (n), @Currier House

    This is very important guys and gals. Je Suis is absolutely right.

    Covid affects <0.1% of people. The response negatively affects us all. This is so obvious as to be transparent.

    Live and let live. If you want to isolate, do. But don't interfere with the rest of us who want to live a normal healthy life ! Health is an individual matter. I would have thought the clientele here would see this, seeing as how we are so hostile to affirmative action and other central planning actions that totally are gumming up the works of society. In other words, I'd have thought y'all would be more individualistic and pro-individual choice.

    It gets tiring repeating this mantra of live and let live and look at the numbers. It's frustrating.

    Je Suis is totally right. I personally officially approve of his messages and messaging.

    • Agree: CantSleep
    • Replies: @Thoughts
    @Currier House

    Steve Readers are

    1) Not Religious

    2) Older

    The strange thing is...

    We had Russiagate, We had Flynn, We had Kavanaugh, We had Impeachment....

    Now we get Corona?

    First time is coincidence, second time is happenstance, third time is Enemy Action

    We're on like the 5th time now...We're definitely dealing with Enemy Action

    Basically this year's flu/cold season is more virulant, and someone had a good idea to use that to their advantage.

    Just as an example...'Corona Can be Spread through The Eyes' was a news headline this week.

    When looked at in a vacuum that is like Monster level frightening. When looked at through reality...That's How all the Flus and Colds are spread!

    I will say this...Coronahoax proves our enemies deserve to win. So much cleverness, really a masterstroke of genius.

    And finally...if you trust data over your gut instinct you got some serious issues.

    Replies: @Currier House, @Alexander Turok

  148. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Snowgrass

    So vaccine won't work either?

    Replies: @Snowgrass

    A vaccine can, potentially, be another avenue to herd immunity.

    There is lots of hopeful talk about a COVID-19 vaccine and to hear a lot of people’s optimism-porn, you’d think there is one ready for human use now.

    Hardly.

  149. @HA
    @Snowgrass

    "There is the unsavory possibility that COVID-19 antibody concentration recedes over time. Bye bye herd immunity."

    That's arguably the expected scenario -- given that immunity for the known coronaviruses lasts about a year or two. So yes, in the same way that you're able to catch one of the coronaviruses that make up the common cold every couple of years, this new coronavirus will quite possibly have several chances to take you out (if there's no vaccine or cure) depending on how quickly your immunity and that of the herd's decays away. And if it leaves you with scarring of the lungs or diminshed lung capacity during any of its visits, that means the next time it comes around, you'll be one of those people with "co-morbidities" whose demise we can just brush off by claiming you were at death's door anyway -- the way that many people are already eager to do this time around.

    Of course, we could get lucky -- perhaps the immunity for coronavirus lasts much longer. (As noted earlier, the Hong Kong flu would have been worse were it not for the fact that some people still had immunity from earlier strains.)

    Moreover, to address one of the followups to your comment, none of that means that a vaccine isn't possible, though depending on how quickly the virus mutates, a vaccine might need to be periodically rejiggered the way the existing flu vaccine is.

    Replies: @Snowgrass

    Given COVID’s coronavirus ancestry we might very be looking at a chronic virus that never stands still long enough for us to lasso.

    • Replies: @HA
    @Snowgrass

    "Given COVID’s coronavirus ancestry we might very be looking at a chronic virus that never stands still long enough for us to lasso."

    For what it's worth, there are several coronavirus vaccines for other animals (cows, dogs, camels/alpaca, though the last two have some issues, as I recall). That's encouraging, at the least, though it doesn't change what you said.

  150. anonymous[106] • Disclaimer says:
    @CantSleep
    @Steve Sailer

    As far as I know the actual girl, Diamond Eugene, and everyone else involved has never been asked about any of this. The filmmaker did eventually track down Diamond Eugene but was still obsessed with the whodunnit that he was stealthy going for (meaningless) handwriting samples instead of just confronting her about Trayvon. He never followed up. He also had an interview with George Zimmerman but it was early in the film and before he discovered all this about the fraudulent witness thus we never get to see Zimmerman's reaction to this reveal either.

    The film is mostly about his investigation. I would make more snarky comments about his investigation and overall style but he deserves credit for seemingly being the only person to discover this. Sadly we don't see any confrontations of those involved with this new evidence, which would have made for a more interesting film.

    I just finished a podcast with Glenn Loury and John Mcwhorter from December and they were both convinced.

    Seemingly not much media anywhere really picks up on it though - strange. The whole story is actually somewhat interesting. I would figure all sorts of anti-[BLM, democrat, fake news, etc] types would eat this story up, I certainly did when I came across it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @anonymous, @res

    I watched it and if you make sure to concentrate on just the evidence it is pretty convincing that Jeantel’s testimony and the letter it was based on were fabricated.

    However the filmmaker’s clownish style (e.g. trying on wigs, consulting a voodoo priest, doing silly voice-over impressions of people he’s never met) make it seem a lot less reputable. That’s probably why it hasn’t gotten anywhere near the traction you might expect.

  151. @Kyle
    @AnotherDad

    Count me as one of those people. It’s seems that since we actually started testing people for this thing in mid March, daily news cases have been constant at ~25k to 30k. That’s looking at daily new cases on google. Is that squashed, or is that what the curve was going to look like anyway.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @AnotherDad

    Count me as one of those people. It’s seems that since we actually started testing people for this thing in mid March, daily news cases have been constant at ~25k to 30k. That’s looking at daily new cases on google. Is that squashed, or is that what the curve was going to look like anyway.

    Yes, it’s squashed.

    People heard about the epidemic, the deaths, and most people altered their behavior in ways that pushed the reproduction rate to near or below 1. The lockdown was–to my mind–piling on.

    However, there are, of course, people who are more or less careful and whole “population groups” who are markedly less compliant, so the Wuhan Special continues to sputter on–in the US–on a gradual downhill trajectory. Summer, of course, being part of that.

    I do not think–just sizing the data up–lifting the “lockdown” will kick this back off again, provided people continue to use common sense, mask up where appropriate and generally be careful. Again summer helps. But next fall–baring a vaccine–with people back inside in close quarters again, will require increased diligence.

    • Agree: ic1000
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @AnotherDad

    Using common sense? We are talking about Americans, right? Good luck with that. It's the 2nd wave that will be interesting.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @AnotherDad

    Another, we are at the mercy of our governors and mayors. Oregon won't reopen until July 6th at the earliest, Less than 200 deaths in a population of 4,800,000. Illinois won't reach Phase Five out of five until a "cure or vaccine" is discovered and until that nothing more than a slight loosening of the collar until June 26th. These are arbitrary dates. And remember Gov. Pritzker (Ill) says a cure or a vaccine.The goal posts are hitched to Monster Truck sized agenda and just keep moving farther and farther away.

    Replies: @epebble

  152. @ATate
    Man I'm really getting tired of this.

    My new personal Heuristic is this; ALL numbers are bullshit.

    Easy to remember and true. All numbers are bullshit.

    Especially the numbers I agree with. In fact, since I'm agreeing with them they're probably utter bullshit.

    This is ALL bullshit.

    Replies: @Bleuteaux

    Yup. Numbers could be much worse or much better, I don’t think we’ll have a handle on which for many years to come.

  153. @Anonymous
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    Monroe was beautiful,really beautiful. Madonna is not. Nancy Sinatra was correctly described as “a waitress in a pizza parlor.” Debbie Harry is pretty but odd above the neck (big head, high IQ, but odd) and a boy with tits below it. Farrah Fawcett shorn of her hair would have been odd too. Gwen Stefani? Chinny chinny bang bang. I can’t think of anyone since Monroe who has been compared to her who does.

    Dolly Parton, she’s a great entertainer, but....they’re being nice. And let’s not mention Anna Nicole Smith.

    Bodywise, MM’s only rival to me was Barbara Eden, who shared a stand-in (Evelyn Moriarty) with her. I’d say Eden’s breasts and her bottom in isolation were better than Marilyn’s even. But as a total package even neck down Monroe is better balanced, and Eden’s face is just not quite in Monroe’s class. And Eden was no great movie actress: there was a reason she didn’t work in major films after Jeannie. She did an Elvis movie.

    Watch a good MM film or two and get back to us. Watch her face...see how she conveys something without saying it. It gets past the now corny dialogue and the old acting style.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Bardon Kaldian, @Inverness, @Buffalo Joe, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Morris Applebaum IV

    It truly must be a generational thing. Most men under 45 simply don’t think of MM as the epitome of sexiness, hotness, and beauty. 20th Century Fox (and later independent) producer David Brown, who worked at Fox during MM’s prime, shared a key insight: MM was never as big during her lifetime as she has become after her death. She never was in a single film where she was the main star. Not once. She was always in films where there was an ensemble cast. During her lifetime she wasn’t considered up to the talent of even a third rate actress. Oftentimes the way she spoke her dialogue sounded fake, forced, and stilted. What she was known for was her T and A, much like today’s THOT’s and pornstars. Really isn’t any different. Her marriage to DiMaggio got her more notoriety than she had previously had.

    People forget that MM started out in a couple legendary films and didn’t make much of a splash in them. Example, Oscar winning 1950 film, All About Eve. She’s in a minor scene, but certainly doesn’t steal it away from the other actors. Anne Baxter in her prime was just as beautiful a face and figure as MM, and she was a much talented actress as well. Bette Davis as an actress was considered one of the gold standards of Classic Hollywood.

    David Brown’s insight was correct. During her life she wasn’t anywhere near the icon she became after
    her death. But again, it’s mostly older generations who seem obsessed with MM, who wasn’t much above the level of two bit whore. That MM had a major career at all was largely because during the ’50’s, most Hollywood women had a certain stale look, with laquered poodle style haircuts and didn’t exude (or weren’t permitted to exude) much in the way of sexual energy, period. If MM had survived into the ’60’s and ’70’s, she’d have had a much tougher time competing with the next generation of women who were far prettier than she ever was.

    From a genetics point of view, US women over the last 60 yrs have only gotten more beautiful. One can see it in the old HS yearbooks. Just from a basic looks department, ordinary women today, right now, are far more attractive than someone like MM.

    Could name other actresses and famous models of the generation after her that were far, far better looking. Katherine DeNeuve, Ursula Andress, Raquel Welch, Jane Fonda, and of course the near perfect 10’s Bo Derek and Christie Brinkley. Linda Evans is another one. MM had absolutely nothing over Christie Brinkley. Brinkley is a perfect 10, MM doesn’t even come close.

    Perfect 10’s simply don’t exist. Except for Christie Brinkley.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Brinkley is a fine looking woman who has aged extraordinarily well. She is also not an actress. She’s a model. She had one small movie role involving her in a Ferrari flirting with Chevy Chase. It was even less significant than Big LMM in ‘Friends’. The “Smelly Cat”song.

    Rebarbative politics aside, Jane Fonda is a damn good actress. Not unattractive, but not a great beauty and not a great female figure, though she was buff and famously did exercise videos.

    I don’t believe the American white gene pool has so radically changed in 100 years. Now, while most women are fat, women (and men) in serious entertainment roles tend to be really buff, working out in gyms with a lot of specialized machines. A Brigitte Nielsen in the eighties or a Gwen Stefani in the nineties-really sculpted, hardbody women-just didn’t exist in the fifties.

    Selection criteria changed. Look at Playboy centerfolds over the years. At first the hourglasses with a little fluff- not obese, but soft-were the ideal. Then it changed, several times. I find the hourglass with a little fluff ideal personally. Several old time actresses have that in a still frame. In motion only a handful stand out.

    I doubt any woman I’d rate as extraordinarily attractive would be having a major career in films right now. And if she wanted one, she’d be lifting and would have a six pack like Gwen in her No Doubt days. Which would turn me off. I respect her as a singer and band frontwoman, not necessarily as a white woman for shudmarking, but wouldn’t have any desire to boff her anyway. Not into hardbodies. I’m trying to think of a current actress or singer I’d like to have sex with, just as a hypothetical question, and-right now I can’t think of anyone really famous. I honestly just can’t.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Yo, nicely stated but MM had the sultry look, as Hawaiians say the Komanawannaleiyou look.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  154. This means the lockdown is working. I predict by this time next your the antibody rate will have risen to 0.9%. We have lowered the curve so far it is just a tad above y=0. Let’s keep it there!!!! BTW, what are y’all doing about hair cuts?

  155. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    @Steve Sailer

    Don't be bitchy, Sailer. The N is tiny, so no conclusions can be drawn from this puny sample. Young, athletic men in great shape likely repel the kungflu without developing antibodies.

    Feel better now?

    (I can't wait til Limbaugh appropriates 'mouth diaper' tomorrow or later this week, depending on his chemo regime)

    CoronaHoax.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @AnotherDad, @Muggles

    Young, athletic men in great shape likely repel the kungflu without developing antibodies.

    I doubt this is true. My guess is even most healthy young people who get a solid exposure, experience a case varying from trivial (“asymptomatic”) to typical “cold” on through “bad flu”, developing antibodies to see it off just like they do for exposure to other common cold/flu viruses.

    However, you are certainly correct that antibodies or not the Wuhan Special isn’t a big threat to a young healthy guy.

    So … what’s the hold up? Why don’t you go ahead and have a CoronaHoax party–chase down and invite some positives–and get you and your friends infected.

    Then with an official positive antibody test you can use “Corona immunity” game on Tinder. All the chicks will be all warm and fuzzy knowing you are immune will practically swoon hearing how your robust health and good genes just brushed that Chinese “killer” aside.

    They’ll be throwing themselves at you!

    Just be careful that they don’t “forget” their birth control so they can bear a genetically superior super-baby.

    Stop complaining. Get infected and take advantage of the opportunity.

    • Replies: @Currier House
    @AnotherDad

    Sir, I have on very good knowledge that many young people in New York did exactly that, because, your sarcastic tone notwithstanding, such is actually a rational strategic approach.

  156. @AnotherDad
    @Kyle


    Count me as one of those people. It’s seems that since we actually started testing people for this thing in mid March, daily news cases have been constant at ~25k to 30k. That’s looking at daily new cases on google. Is that squashed, or is that what the curve was going to look like anyway.
     
    Yes, it's squashed.

    People heard about the epidemic, the deaths, and most people altered their behavior in ways that pushed the reproduction rate to near or below 1. The lockdown was--to my mind--piling on.

    However, there are, of course, people who are more or less careful and whole "population groups" who are markedly less compliant, so the Wuhan Special continues to sputter on--in the US--on a gradual downhill trajectory. Summer, of course, being part of that.

    I do not think--just sizing the data up--lifting the "lockdown" will kick this back off again, provided people continue to use common sense, mask up where appropriate and generally be careful. Again summer helps. But next fall--baring a vaccine--with people back inside in close quarters again, will require increased diligence.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Buffalo Joe

    Using common sense? We are talking about Americans, right? Good luck with that. It’s the 2nd wave that will be interesting.

  157. @AnotherDad
    @Kyle


    Count me as one of those people. It’s seems that since we actually started testing people for this thing in mid March, daily news cases have been constant at ~25k to 30k. That’s looking at daily new cases on google. Is that squashed, or is that what the curve was going to look like anyway.
     
    Yes, it's squashed.

    People heard about the epidemic, the deaths, and most people altered their behavior in ways that pushed the reproduction rate to near or below 1. The lockdown was--to my mind--piling on.

    However, there are, of course, people who are more or less careful and whole "population groups" who are markedly less compliant, so the Wuhan Special continues to sputter on--in the US--on a gradual downhill trajectory. Summer, of course, being part of that.

    I do not think--just sizing the data up--lifting the "lockdown" will kick this back off again, provided people continue to use common sense, mask up where appropriate and generally be careful. Again summer helps. But next fall--baring a vaccine--with people back inside in close quarters again, will require increased diligence.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Buffalo Joe

    Another, we are at the mercy of our governors and mayors. Oregon won’t reopen until July 6th at the earliest, Less than 200 deaths in a population of 4,800,000. Illinois won’t reach Phase Five out of five until a “cure or vaccine” is discovered and until that nothing more than a slight loosening of the collar until June 26th. These are arbitrary dates. And remember Gov. Pritzker (Ill) says a cure or a vaccine.The goal posts are hitched to Monster Truck sized agenda and just keep moving farther and farther away.

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Buffalo Joe

    OR is on gradual county-by-county reopening plan from this week. Substantial reopening will start in June provided infection rates keep going down monotonically. I think OR has managed this crisis well, though the governor is not particularly brilliant or charismatic. WA has also managed well. CA almost as well, given their size and other problems. The major FUBAR is federal government.

  158. @Steve Sailer
    @Buffalo Joe

    Ronald Reagan used to have a job as a remote baseball announcer on the radio. He'd get a telegram with the outcome of each batter, then make up the balls and strikes in between.

    Replies: @Morris Applebaum IV, @Buffalo Joe, @Stan Adams

    Steve, slight correction. I think Regan got the game in progress on a “teletype” not by telegram.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Buffalo Joe

    An interesting question. Reagan didn’t know Morse code and few at a radio station would have. Teletype and ticker tape like machines existed but were quite expensive, also noisy. So the machine had to be in a different room or the sound would have dimed out the whole operation. The technical logistics would be interesting to know.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

  159. anon[998] • Disclaimer says:
    @LondonBob
    @Steve Sailer

    I am just not convinced this will spread much outside of urban conurbations, I mostly look at Britain, Sweden and the US and it hasn't made inroads outside of certain areas. Northern Ireland is like much of the US, untouched, whereas London, Birmingham have had big outbreaks.

    Weather, transportation modes seem relevant as this doesn't seem able to spread outside of confined areas, I think there is a ceiling as to how many it can infect and it will continue petering out.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @anon

    I am just not convinced this will spread much outside of urban conurbations,

    What? It already has.

    I mostly look at Britain, Sweden and the US and it hasn’t made inroads outside of certain areas.

    Rural Georgia and the Navajo reservation in Arizona & New Mexico are not urban.

  160. @theMann
    @Steve Sailer

    For all of Je Suis’s tactlessness, he does have a point, sort of.


    Top level Jocks are almost super-humanly healthy people, and they don’t typically get Flu shots. No H1N1 Flu variant shot, no testing positive for “Corona” virus. It is like a miracle how that works out.

    Replies: @HA, @Currier House, @anon

    Top level Jocks are almost super-humanly healthy people,

    “Baseball employees” were tested. They are not “top level Jocks”.

    Reading is fundamental.

  161. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Thoughts



    my dad thinks I already had Corona

     

    Have the experts given us yet a diagnostic list of symptoms that identify a Coronainfection, and how it differs from a normal flu? One might presume that it would have to somehow be "stronger" or something.

    Replies: @Currier House, @epebble, @Thoughts

    A poor man’s diagnosis is this: Buy a $30 pulse oximeter, When you are rested, if the reading is below 95%, you may have lung damage, else, no detectable damage. (P.S. The test may fail if you have/had history of severe smoking related lung damage or other lung diseases like pneumonia, emphysema, silicosis, black lung disease etc.,)

  162. @CantSleep
    @Steve Sailer

    Presumably, not being retarded, it's possible she could have lied much more effectively and drawn Zimmerman closer to conviction. Alternatively she could've had the conscious enough not to lie, remain neutral and Zimmerman would have never been arrested or charged. And super-alternatively in my fantasy land she could have been honest and admitted that Trayvon was trying to impress her by playing the knockout game with a pudgy hispanic and BLM would have never started as it did.

    I think the broader point is who put these teenage girls up to it. And how so many people facilitated or ignored the hoax.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Regardless of Trayvon Martin, BLM was a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. All the decades long pent up frustration of perceived police brutality (as well as leaders such as Al Sharpton constantly stirring the pot and ginning up the community to keep them perpetually outraged) was bound to come out sooner or later. Trayvon’s death solidified for the black community what thousands, perhaps millions of them have felt at some level every single day: that they’re being wrongly persecuted and it’s all whitey’s fault. Genius Coates has basically made an entire career out of just this sort of trope. So BLM was bound to take off one way or another. The only reason it didn’t during the Central Park Jogger incident or Rodney King riots was because the Internet didn’t exist at the time of those occurrences.

  163. @Buffalo Joe
    @AnotherDad

    Another, we are at the mercy of our governors and mayors. Oregon won't reopen until July 6th at the earliest, Less than 200 deaths in a population of 4,800,000. Illinois won't reach Phase Five out of five until a "cure or vaccine" is discovered and until that nothing more than a slight loosening of the collar until June 26th. These are arbitrary dates. And remember Gov. Pritzker (Ill) says a cure or a vaccine.The goal posts are hitched to Monster Truck sized agenda and just keep moving farther and farther away.

    Replies: @epebble

    OR is on gradual county-by-county reopening plan from this week. Substantial reopening will start in June provided infection rates keep going down monotonically. I think OR has managed this crisis well, though the governor is not particularly brilliant or charismatic. WA has also managed well. CA almost as well, given their size and other problems. The major FUBAR is federal government.

  164. @AnotherDad
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Young, athletic men in great shape likely repel the kungflu without developing antibodies.
     

    I doubt this is true. My guess is even most healthy young people who get a solid exposure, experience a case varying from trivial ("asymptomatic") to typical "cold" on through "bad flu", developing antibodies to see it off just like they do for exposure to other common cold/flu viruses.

    However, you are certainly correct that antibodies or not the Wuhan Special isn't a big threat to a young healthy guy.

    So ... what's the hold up? Why don't you go ahead and have a CoronaHoax party--chase down and invite some positives--and get you and your friends infected.

    Then with an official positive antibody test you can use "Corona immunity" game on Tinder. All the chicks will be all warm and fuzzy knowing you are immune will practically swoon hearing how your robust health and good genes just brushed that Chinese "killer" aside.

    They'll be throwing themselves at you!

    Just be careful that they don't "forget" their birth control so they can bear a genetically superior super-baby.

    Stop complaining. Get infected and take advantage of the opportunity.

    Replies: @Currier House

    Sir, I have on very good knowledge that many young people in New York did exactly that, because, your sarcastic tone notwithstanding, such is actually a rational strategic approach.

  165. @Buffalo Joe
    If you can't get to a ball park to watch a baseball game on a sunny day the next best thing would be to listen to a well announced game on the radio. Just make up games and I will listen. No need to put any players or fans at risk.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @anon, @Hypnotoad666, @Steve Sailer, @BigJimSportCamper

    Reminds me of Jack Nicholson calling an imaginary game for his fellow asylum inmates in One Flew Over a Cuckoo’s Nest,

    • Thanks: Buffalo Joe
  166. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    @Steve Sailer

    Don't be bitchy, Sailer. The N is tiny, so no conclusions can be drawn from this puny sample. Young, athletic men in great shape likely repel the kungflu without developing antibodies.

    Feel better now?

    (I can't wait til Limbaugh appropriates 'mouth diaper' tomorrow or later this week, depending on his chemo regime)

    CoronaHoax.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @AnotherDad, @Muggles

    Yes, if this is such a hoax, why don’t you do yourself a favor and volunteer at a hospital full of these sick hoaxers? Like a candy striper. Even if you are male (no discrimination!). Bring them books and read to them. Change the TV channels.

    You can then after a few weeks, notify the local media about your heroism. At the very least a nice news article or maybe even a spot on TV news. Or national TV!

    Could open up a whole new career for you! Just don’t mention your hoax theory. Hard to play hero when those sick folks don’t have anything you can catch.

  167. @Reg Cæsar
    @Hypnotoad666


    I am not saying golfers are dumb, but c’mon, putting a ball in a cup is not cognitive rocket science.
     
    Golfers put a ball in the cup. Other athletes put both in.

    Replies: @james wilson

    To the contrary, putting the ball in the cup is similar to what billiard players do. Spacial cognitive demands are very high, also the reason women cannot compete with men in a sport such as billiards, entirely lacking in physical demands.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @james wilson

    Women have no need for cups.

  168. The ultimate goal of the Stanford team was to find out the Infection Fatality Rate, by trying to assess the actual rate of infection. Herd immunity estimates were a side bar.

    The primary question about the MLB study seems to be how representative the results are, and therefore generizable. The BIG red flag is that apparently none of this sample died. The article doesn’t explicitly say so, but I assume if someone had, we’d know it.

    We know the true IFR for Covid 19 is more than zero. Yet, that’s what this sample tells us – 0%. Ergo, not a very representative sample, and it underestimates the count. I ‘d guess that infection rates, and progress toward herd immunity, are similarly under enumerated as well.

  169. @varsicule
    @The Alarmist

    Sorry, but excess deaths are already an obvious signal in the CDC death totals by week. I track this in a spreadsheet each week. Week 15 & 16 in the series are already way above the last six year average, and indeed, above the highest totals of any year. And it's pretty clear to me that Covid deaths are being undercounted, not overcounted. If you subtract official covid death counts from the series, week 15 & 16 deaths are still above the corresponding week in any of the previous years.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Buffalo Joe

    Fine, ignoring serious and credible allegations that COVID is being over-attributed as a cause of deaths, looking at the raw death count, maybe your rough analysis is correct for the time being. How abot the ripple effect going forward, since it culled the weakest before a second wave or the flu or whatever can finally take them?

    Then again, not too long before COVID-19 became the Bees’ Knees, experts were already talking about this being a really bad flu year, even killing children

    Do we really know how many people are dying from, much less have already been infected with COVID-19?

  170. @Currier House
    @theMann

    I have been silently watching the drama transpire between Omar Mateen and Sailer, and I really like that Sailer let Omar's "boomerfag" comment through in the Gyms vs Coffee Shops thread.

    I agree very much with Omar's sentiment, which is, to translate: "we are healthy. Leave us alone. It's a free country. Live and let live. We want to squat and deadlift. If you don't want to, you don't have to. Also, the dread virus affects <0.1% of people.

    Plus there is treatment for it. And exercise and socializing is Prophylactic. So stop with the nanny-state apologetics that lead to ever increasing infringements on our rights."

    The boomer angle is very relevant because we millennials and zoomers have already been dealt a really shit hand, from the 2008 crisis and the 9/11 patriot act stuff before that, and offshoring, and immivasion ... Maybe some of us actually want to get married and have a stable family but we can't what with all the self-destructing of the economy going on. Maybe this frustrates us very much, to see the implosion of American meritocracy.

    And gyms, and socializing, was one great way for us to deal with this and extend our lifespans and periods of potency and relevance. And now y'all boomers "in control" so to speak (those who are established and could speak out if you wanted to or directly contact elected officials) are taking away these refuges from us. JSOM's hostility, in my judgement, is warranted.

    I also agree with Alden's commenting and appreciate and admire her writing style very much. It is a privilege that such people still exist.

    Replies: @Anon, @Thoughts

    I agree, except I’m also hoping for a massive wave of foreclosures so that housing prices go down to a more affordable level.

    • Replies: @Currier House
    @Anon

    Anon, housing prices going down to a more affordable level will not offset the loss in purchasing power and quality of life of a devastated economy, which will adversely affect you.

    The destruction of civil society and the living in a new normal of a police state probably will affect you too.

    A wave of foreclosures will create some bad vibes, to say the least. Surely you don't actively desire bad vibes, slumminess.

    There are other ways of bringing down housing prices, such as having a better, more stable economy the fruits of which will be more rationally distributed (as was the case in the great American post-war period pre-globohomo), getting government out of lending, and rolling back immivasion.

    Unless you're talking about some kind of great reset or Jubilee Year type event, but I wouldn't count on that.

    In general, policy should be crafted on the basis of above-board straightforwardness and integrity.

  171. I imagine big league ballplayers take public mass transit about once per decade…

    I saw Omar Vizquel along with a couple teammates get on a city bus in Denver once. It’s when he was playing for the SF Giants. They were in town playing the Rockies.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Ian M.

    Pitcher Archie Bradley of the Diamondbacks routinely takes the light rail to games. He's just goin' to work like everyone else.

  172. @Anonymous
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    Monroe was beautiful,really beautiful. Madonna is not. Nancy Sinatra was correctly described as “a waitress in a pizza parlor.” Debbie Harry is pretty but odd above the neck (big head, high IQ, but odd) and a boy with tits below it. Farrah Fawcett shorn of her hair would have been odd too. Gwen Stefani? Chinny chinny bang bang. I can’t think of anyone since Monroe who has been compared to her who does.

    Dolly Parton, she’s a great entertainer, but....they’re being nice. And let’s not mention Anna Nicole Smith.

    Bodywise, MM’s only rival to me was Barbara Eden, who shared a stand-in (Evelyn Moriarty) with her. I’d say Eden’s breasts and her bottom in isolation were better than Marilyn’s even. But as a total package even neck down Monroe is better balanced, and Eden’s face is just not quite in Monroe’s class. And Eden was no great movie actress: there was a reason she didn’t work in major films after Jeannie. She did an Elvis movie.

    Watch a good MM film or two and get back to us. Watch her face...see how she conveys something without saying it. It gets past the now corny dialogue and the old acting style.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Bardon Kaldian, @Inverness, @Buffalo Joe, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Morris Applebaum IV

    “Watch a good MM film or two and get back to us. ”

    I’ve seen everyone of her films (excluding a couple of sucky 1940s ones where she had cameo roles), most many times. My favorite performance of hers is in the Misfits and I thought she was most beautiful in Asphalt Jungle, though her role was fairly minor. I like her well enough, but don’t think she can compare with (real) princesses like Grace Kelly and especially Rita Hayworth. It’s like comparing Joe DiMaggio to Babe Ruth. I prefer DiMaggio, but I realize he wasn’t as good.

    I have no doubt that if Marilyn Monroe were a 94 year old woman that we’ve been watching age our entire lives, she wouldn’t be nearly as popular. Like I said, dying young can be a great career movie, but it’s not to be recommended.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    That’s true. Janis Joplin (yecch) and now Amy Winehouse have cult followings posthumously because they died when they did.

    One can never say “what if” because there is no way to know. Monroe might have gotten fat like Liz or Shelley Winters. Especially because had she lived she probably would have had a total hysterectomy and after that most women cow out. Since the Catholic Church forbids tubal ligation, many married women “medically need” a hysterectomy when changing shitty diapers gets old enough, and you see the results at Sunday mass. A previously svelte mother of two now has a third baby and when it is two or three, she’s a typical fat flabby Catholic housewife.

    That said-my personal hope would have been that MM would have wound up on “Star Trek”, assuming she didn’t cow out, just because even at 40 she would have wore the TOS female Starfleet uniform so well. In fact, Majel Barrett did have a certain Marilynesque quality, but as an actress, she was there because she was Gene’s wife, let’s be honest.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Morris Applebaum IV

    Morris, as the son of an Italian-American Yankee fan I grew up a Yank's fan, rooting for Joltin' Joe, Phil Rizzuto and Yogi. Ruth was great but remember Joe Di lost 1943 to 1945 while he served in the Army, that is a lot of possible stats. And if MM was still alive at 94 you still wouldn't have a shot.

  173. HA says:
    @Snowgrass
    @HA

    Given COVID's coronavirus ancestry we might very be looking at a chronic virus that never stands still long enough for us to lasso.

    Replies: @HA

    “Given COVID’s coronavirus ancestry we might very be looking at a chronic virus that never stands still long enough for us to lasso.”

    For what it’s worth, there are several coronavirus vaccines for other animals (cows, dogs, camels/alpaca, though the last two have some issues, as I recall). That’s encouraging, at the least, though it doesn’t change what you said.

  174. @Inverness
    @Morris Applebaum IV


    How can anyone not like Joe Dimaggio?
     
    Simple. He was creepy and repulsive.

    Replies: @Morris Applebaum IV

    Because he was a dunker?

  175. @varsicule
    @The Alarmist

    Sorry, but excess deaths are already an obvious signal in the CDC death totals by week. I track this in a spreadsheet each week. Week 15 & 16 in the series are already way above the last six year average, and indeed, above the highest totals of any year. And it's pretty clear to me that Covid deaths are being undercounted, not overcounted. If you subtract official covid death counts from the series, week 15 & 16 deaths are still above the corresponding week in any of the previous years.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Buffalo Joe

    varsi, I am glad that you have a spread sheet to track these deaths, but it is pretty apparent that all respiratory illnesses and pneumonia and seasonal flu will go in the Covid-19 column. I have posted this before but in January the Buffalo News and the local TV news stations were all about the death of an 11 year old healthy, active boy who had his flu shot and still died from the “flu”. Life is not everlasting, we all die from something and right now, short of a bullet between the eyes, you are the victim of Covid-19.

  176. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    People like stories about the DiMaggio-Monroe marriage because they weren't too bright, which makes them more sympathetic. In the stage era, people like bright characters, like Hamlet. In the movie era, people like not-so-bright characters. Thus, everybody's favorite anecdote from Gay Talese's 1974 article on Joltin' Joe:

    "Joe,” said Marilyn Monroe, just back from Korea, "you never heard such cheering.”

    "Yes I have,” Joe DiMaggio answered.
     

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Buzz Mohawk

    Steve, I married my wife at a friend’s beach house where Marilyn Monroe and Arthur Miller had stayed when they were a married couple.

    They made the local news back then, with a photograph of them waving from the same balcony where we had our ceremony. Yes, I am bragging about this bit of trivia. I picked the spot partly for that reason, but mostly because it was a friend’s house on the beach.

    Our marriage has already lasted a lot longer than Marilyn and Arthur’s. I proposed on a Friday the 13th too, on purpose. My humor, you know. I already knew she liked the number anyway, just another weird thing we share.

  177. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Anonymous

    It truly must be a generational thing. Most men under 45 simply don't think of MM as the epitome of sexiness, hotness, and beauty. 20th Century Fox (and later independent) producer David Brown, who worked at Fox during MM's prime, shared a key insight: MM was never as big during her lifetime as she has become after her death. She never was in a single film where she was the main star. Not once. She was always in films where there was an ensemble cast. During her lifetime she wasn't considered up to the talent of even a third rate actress. Oftentimes the way she spoke her dialogue sounded fake, forced, and stilted. What she was known for was her T and A, much like today's THOT's and pornstars. Really isn't any different. Her marriage to DiMaggio got her more notoriety than she had previously had.

    People forget that MM started out in a couple legendary films and didn't make much of a splash in them. Example, Oscar winning 1950 film, All About Eve. She's in a minor scene, but certainly doesn't steal it away from the other actors. Anne Baxter in her prime was just as beautiful a face and figure as MM, and she was a much talented actress as well. Bette Davis as an actress was considered one of the gold standards of Classic Hollywood.

    David Brown's insight was correct. During her life she wasn't anywhere near the icon she became after
    her death. But again, it's mostly older generations who seem obsessed with MM, who wasn't much above the level of two bit whore. That MM had a major career at all was largely because during the '50's, most Hollywood women had a certain stale look, with laquered poodle style haircuts and didn't exude (or weren't permitted to exude) much in the way of sexual energy, period. If MM had survived into the '60's and '70's, she'd have had a much tougher time competing with the next generation of women who were far prettier than she ever was.

    From a genetics point of view, US women over the last 60 yrs have only gotten more beautiful. One can see it in the old HS yearbooks. Just from a basic looks department, ordinary women today, right now, are far more attractive than someone like MM.

    Could name other actresses and famous models of the generation after her that were far, far better looking. Katherine DeNeuve, Ursula Andress, Raquel Welch, Jane Fonda, and of course the near perfect 10's Bo Derek and Christie Brinkley. Linda Evans is another one. MM had absolutely nothing over Christie Brinkley. Brinkley is a perfect 10, MM doesn't even come close.

    Perfect 10's simply don't exist. Except for Christie Brinkley.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Buffalo Joe

    Brinkley is a fine looking woman who has aged extraordinarily well. She is also not an actress. She’s a model. She had one small movie role involving her in a Ferrari flirting with Chevy Chase. It was even less significant than Big LMM in ‘Friends’. The “Smelly Cat”song.

    Rebarbative politics aside, Jane Fonda is a damn good actress. Not unattractive, but not a great beauty and not a great female figure, though she was buff and famously did exercise videos.

    I don’t believe the American white gene pool has so radically changed in 100 years. Now, while most women are fat, women (and men) in serious entertainment roles tend to be really buff, working out in gyms with a lot of specialized machines. A Brigitte Nielsen in the eighties or a Gwen Stefani in the nineties-really sculpted, hardbody women-just didn’t exist in the fifties.

    Selection criteria changed. Look at Playboy centerfolds over the years. At first the hourglasses with a little fluff- not obese, but soft-were the ideal. Then it changed, several times. I find the hourglass with a little fluff ideal personally. Several old time actresses have that in a still frame. In motion only a handful stand out.

    I doubt any woman I’d rate as extraordinarily attractive would be having a major career in films right now. And if she wanted one, she’d be lifting and would have a six pack like Gwen in her No Doubt days. Which would turn me off. I respect her as a singer and band frontwoman, not necessarily as a white woman for shudmarking, but wouldn’t have any desire to boff her anyway. Not into hardbodies. I’m trying to think of a current actress or singer I’d like to have sex with, just as a hypothetical question, and-right now I can’t think of anyone really famous. I honestly just can’t.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    The Paramore girl who looks like a 1978 Deborah Harry has a nice bottom and legs, but is flat chested and has gross tattoos. Samantha Fish has nice legs but her demeanor isn’t too alluring.

  178. @Ian M.

    I imagine big league ballplayers take public mass transit about once per decade...
     
    I saw Omar Vizquel along with a couple teammates get on a city bus in Denver once. It's when he was playing for the SF Giants. They were in town playing the Rockies.

    Replies: @anon

    Pitcher Archie Bradley of the Diamondbacks routinely takes the light rail to games. He’s just goin’ to work like everyone else.

  179. Anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Polynikes
    @AnotherDad


    This–blindingly obvious–reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that’s why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks, who then roll out these ridiculous statements.
     
    I guess you would have to define "stepped on hard," but nothing is blindly obvious. Seems as if you are suffering from your own confirmation bias.

    The places that locked down the hardest: NYC, Italy, NJ, etc... have suffered the most. Other places like California have locked down hard, but have not. There isn't even a correlation to point to, let alone a causation.

    What we do see is that most transmission is indoors--a surprise to the NY Gov.--and there is the possibility that strict lockdowns made things worse. At the very least the marginal utility of a strict lockdown versus basic social distancing has not be proven to be worth it by any data.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/

    Italy evidently got on top of the transmission in early March. Their approach ultimately has been effective to date.

    • Replies: @Polynikes
    @Anonymous

    Or they were hit earlier and their progression has happened largely the same as every place else. Pretty much every country "got on top of the transmission" on the same path despite policies used. Here is the US by percent positive tests (to eliminate testing ramp up): https://twitter.com/EthicalSkeptic/status/1259958999883100160?s=20

    Ramping up the tests so high as to search out every last positive case is keeping the total cases up a little in comparison to early when testing was ore scarce. But it is declining in the US. Percent positives is even dropping in the middle of the country. Wisconsin is on a 14 day downward trend of percent positive tests, for example.

    Here's a comparison of several countries: https://twitter.com/KaiSteve2/status/1259343336768368641?s=20

    If anything, Italy may have prolonged things. Or they were just hit harder and didn't capture a lot of early non-serious cases with tests.

  180. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @Morris Applebaum IV
    @Anonymous

    "Watch a good MM film or two and get back to us. "


    I've seen everyone of her films (excluding a couple of sucky 1940s ones where she had cameo roles), most many times. My favorite performance of hers is in the Misfits and I thought she was most beautiful in Asphalt Jungle, though her role was fairly minor. I like her well enough, but don't think she can compare with (real) princesses like Grace Kelly and especially Rita Hayworth. It's like comparing Joe DiMaggio to Babe Ruth. I prefer DiMaggio, but I realize he wasn't as good.

    I have no doubt that if Marilyn Monroe were a 94 year old woman that we've been watching age our entire lives, she wouldn't be nearly as popular. Like I said, dying young can be a great career movie, but it's not to be recommended.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Buffalo Joe

    That’s true. Janis Joplin (yecch) and now Amy Winehouse have cult followings posthumously because they died when they did.

    One can never say “what if” because there is no way to know. Monroe might have gotten fat like Liz or Shelley Winters. Especially because had she lived she probably would have had a total hysterectomy and after that most women cow out. Since the Catholic Church forbids tubal ligation, many married women “medically need” a hysterectomy when changing shitty diapers gets old enough, and you see the results at Sunday mass. A previously svelte mother of two now has a third baby and when it is two or three, she’s a typical fat flabby Catholic housewife.

    That said-my personal hope would have been that MM would have wound up on “Star Trek”, assuming she didn’t cow out, just because even at 40 she would have wore the TOS female Starfleet uniform so well. In fact, Majel Barrett did have a certain Marilynesque quality, but as an actress, she was there because she was Gene’s wife, let’s be honest.

  181. @Steve Sailer
    @Thoughts

    Ftr, my dad thinks I already had Corona…And if that was what I had in November then it was the lightest Flu of my life (international travl nov 2nd two week incub)

    Or perhaps that light illness you had in November was just the flu, bro.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    Steve, I am not defending attacks on you, but your use of the phrase, “just the flu, bro” is beneath you.

    I will paste here my response to a recent, sincere reply to me, a reply that mentioned the very sad death of an elderly and ill person who had COVID-19:

    This is sad, and it sounds like the same kind of thing that happens with flu viruses.

    Supporters of the panic/shutdown/overreaction like to use the phrase, “it’s just like the flu” or “it’s just the flu” as a badge of shame against those opposed. SARS-CoV-2 is not “the flu,” but it is having much the same effect as a bad flu virus, no matter what anyone says.

    It is not the Black Death.

    The Corona Panic of 2020 will go down as a world-wide overreaction that caused far more damage than what the virus itself would have caused if it had been treated “like the flu.”

    FWIW try to balance the side effects or costs of the cure against the damages or costs of the illness.

  182. @Currier House
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Exactly. Very good point. My father is a pulmonologist on active duty at a large clinic and I speak to him every day and this question has the ring of truth to it to me as well.

    My theory is that Covid deaths are deaths of suggestibility, iatrogenic, and in some cases where TDS infects hospital workers, outright murders.

    They need to reopen the gyms immediately. (And yoga studios, and golf courses.) These establishments are, on balance, public-health positive. If fast food and liquor stores are open, which are, on balance, public-health negative, there is zero justification for the gyms to be closed whatsoever.

    Allow individuals to transact willingly with adults and to seek their own level and style of risk.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Currier, I agree with you, but how can you re-open gyms when miles and miles of beach and hiking trails and cottages and boat ramps are closed? It is all about control, not health.

    • Agree: Thoughts
  183. @Travis
    Most Baseball players use chewing tobacco. Players using nicotine products will have rates of infection 4 times lower than the non-nicotine using population. https://www.medicine.news/2020-04-25-world-renowned-neurobiologist-says-nicotine-extract-protect-against-coronavirus.html

    Nicotine inhibits the expression of angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) in multiple organs and cell types. Angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) is found in the heart, kidneys and other organs. In COVID-19, the respiratory disease caused by the novel coronavirus, it is thought to play a role in how the infection progresses into the lungs...."When we found that one of the strongest biomarkers, ACE2, was much higher in men than in women, I realised that this had the potential to explain why men were more likely to die from COVID-19 than women," said Iziah Sama, a doctor at UMC Groningen who co-led the study. https://news.trust.org/item/20200510222331-y953v

    SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, gains entry into human cells by latching onto protein receptors called ACE2, which are found on certain cells’ surfaces.

    The researchers have proposed nicotine attaches to the ACE2 receptors, thereby preventing the virus from attaching and potentially reducing the amount of virus that can get into a person’s lung cells. https://science.thewire.in/health/coronavirus-smoking-nicotine-research/

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @William Badwhite

    Travis, chewing tobacco or dipping snuff is a foul disgusting habit BUT, I did both when I smoked. Smoking was a hard quit but chewing tobacco was harder, so much nicotine right into your system. I know cigarettes are bad for your lungs and heart, but I miss a smoke now and then and miss “chew” even more…30 plus years off of both. Now, let me go get my wife and you can explain to her why I should go out and buy a pouch of “Red Man” or “Levi Garrett” or a tin of Copenhagen.

    • Replies: @Travis
    @Buffalo Joe

    i started using Snus about 10 years ago when I was 40. I never smoked or used chewing tobacco.

    Snus is dried tobacco, no need to spit, it is not as strong as Copenhagen. It comes in pouches. I did quit last year but started using Snus again 2 weeks ago when they realized Nicotine protects you from the Wahu flu. They now have products like Snus which are tobacco free, so no carcinogens. Lyft is a nicotine pouch that is actually stronger than the Snus I use, hits you faster.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  184. BJ, of course it is about control and not health. Flu and a dozen other causes of death kill more people every year.

    To your point — absolutely, they (or we) need to open all beaches, trails, cottages, boat ramps, ballfields, movie theaters, stadia, houses of worship, restaurants, completely and without restriction, immediately.

    Health is an individual matter, an individual responsibility. Our civilization is based on allowing individuals to transact with other willing adults on their own terms, and to seek out their own risks.

    Government messes up everything it touches, including and especially health. If people want to NOT go to a movie theater, they can stay home. If the owner of a stadium wants to keep it closed, she can.

    But no government has any constitutional authority or morally legitimate basis to prevent these adults from transacting.

    Live and let live. Everything must be completely opened immediately. ESPECIALLY MY GYM!!!!

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Currier House

    Currier, BJ ?....to quote Robert DiNiro in "Taxi Driver", "You talkin to me, you talkin to me?" Nice post. Be Safe.

  185. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Anonymous

    It truly must be a generational thing. Most men under 45 simply don't think of MM as the epitome of sexiness, hotness, and beauty. 20th Century Fox (and later independent) producer David Brown, who worked at Fox during MM's prime, shared a key insight: MM was never as big during her lifetime as she has become after her death. She never was in a single film where she was the main star. Not once. She was always in films where there was an ensemble cast. During her lifetime she wasn't considered up to the talent of even a third rate actress. Oftentimes the way she spoke her dialogue sounded fake, forced, and stilted. What she was known for was her T and A, much like today's THOT's and pornstars. Really isn't any different. Her marriage to DiMaggio got her more notoriety than she had previously had.

    People forget that MM started out in a couple legendary films and didn't make much of a splash in them. Example, Oscar winning 1950 film, All About Eve. She's in a minor scene, but certainly doesn't steal it away from the other actors. Anne Baxter in her prime was just as beautiful a face and figure as MM, and she was a much talented actress as well. Bette Davis as an actress was considered one of the gold standards of Classic Hollywood.

    David Brown's insight was correct. During her life she wasn't anywhere near the icon she became after
    her death. But again, it's mostly older generations who seem obsessed with MM, who wasn't much above the level of two bit whore. That MM had a major career at all was largely because during the '50's, most Hollywood women had a certain stale look, with laquered poodle style haircuts and didn't exude (or weren't permitted to exude) much in the way of sexual energy, period. If MM had survived into the '60's and '70's, she'd have had a much tougher time competing with the next generation of women who were far prettier than she ever was.

    From a genetics point of view, US women over the last 60 yrs have only gotten more beautiful. One can see it in the old HS yearbooks. Just from a basic looks department, ordinary women today, right now, are far more attractive than someone like MM.

    Could name other actresses and famous models of the generation after her that were far, far better looking. Katherine DeNeuve, Ursula Andress, Raquel Welch, Jane Fonda, and of course the near perfect 10's Bo Derek and Christie Brinkley. Linda Evans is another one. MM had absolutely nothing over Christie Brinkley. Brinkley is a perfect 10, MM doesn't even come close.

    Perfect 10's simply don't exist. Except for Christie Brinkley.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Buffalo Joe

    Yo, nicely stated but MM had the sultry look, as Hawaiians say the Komanawannaleiyou look.

    • LOL: Coemgen
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Buffalo Joe

    Uh, yes, it's called "I will definitely leiyou if you match my price." Also related to "If you got the money, I got the time."

    Kim K has the same look, as do most THOTS and women in their prime with any degree of looks.

  186. @Anon
    @Currier House

    I agree, except I'm also hoping for a massive wave of foreclosures so that housing prices go down to a more affordable level.

    Replies: @Currier House

    Anon, housing prices going down to a more affordable level will not offset the loss in purchasing power and quality of life of a devastated economy, which will adversely affect you.

    The destruction of civil society and the living in a new normal of a police state probably will affect you too.

    A wave of foreclosures will create some bad vibes, to say the least. Surely you don’t actively desire bad vibes, slumminess.

    There are other ways of bringing down housing prices, such as having a better, more stable economy the fruits of which will be more rationally distributed (as was the case in the great American post-war period pre-globohomo), getting government out of lending, and rolling back immivasion.

    Unless you’re talking about some kind of great reset or Jubilee Year type event, but I wouldn’t count on that.

    In general, policy should be crafted on the basis of above-board straightforwardness and integrity.

  187. Anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Justvisiting
    @AnotherDad


    This–blindingly obvious–reality that we stepped on this thing pretty damn hard and that’s why the curves rolled over just seems to elude some folks, who then roll out these ridiculous statements.
     
    It is blindingly obvious to any reasonable person.

    Before CV it was just the left wing that was bats&^t crazy.

    Now the right-wing has joined the club.

    The good news is I live in a state (CT) that has been hard hit, so all but the dumbest of the morons "get it" and everyone behaves in public.

    The pictures I am seeing of large crowds without masks shopping is telling me all I need to know about flyover country--I will treat them like the urban ghettos--the natives have convinced me they are stupid and dangerous.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Before CV it was just the left wing that was bats&^t crazy.

    Pretty much this. It is very odd, but one of those things. Politics makes strange bedfellows. I was never with the Christian Coalition back when that was a thing even though generally rightist.

    ATM the left is more concerned about CV than immigration or PC, for the most part. Eventually that will change back. In the 2010s, whites were responding to the increasingly obvious genocide drive of Jews like Potok. That gave us a great commonality.

    CV is different. At the moment barring vaccine it is a political battle between those who are in acceptance versus those in denial and anger, for the most part. It is a problem with any solution dictated by the mechanics of infection and the reality of what people will do.

    I regret my hiatus posting here during the earlier months, as every little bit to influence could have helped shape consensus on the right before it gelled.

  188. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Anonymous

    If you read Cramer's book on DiMaggio, then you know that Joe didn't really do very much during WW2, except for entertaining the troops and playing some baseball on army camps. He didn't see any actual service, unlike Bob Feller, Ted Williams, or even Yogi Berra, who was at the battle of Normandy and received a medal, by the way. Cramer's book makes it clear that he was pissed off that he was missing out on playing with the Yankees and losing peak years of his career, while the military was making money off his name by having him play baseball on the camps for free. He didn't even want to serve, initially, but his first wife kept insisting that he enlist.

    In short, because he played for NY, and was a winner on the field, DiMaggio was protected by the powers that be. They liked him because he won. Contrast that with Ted Williams who until the last yrs of his life just wanted to be left alone and not bothered and so wasn't as well liked by the press at large. People tend to forget how much sports, MLB in particular, was molded and shaped by the way in which the media covered an individual player. As Jim Bouton stated "If the reporters had told the truth about what went on in baseball, there'd have been no controversy surrounding my book."

    At least Williams served his country with honor, that should be respected. But off the field he wasn't any better, much less smarter, than DiMaggio. Not sure if the Kid was even literate.

    Personally think MM is way overrated. For her time she seemed close to a 9, at best. Today, she wouldn't even register as a 7. But back then in the '50's with the way women dressed and how they tended to look, sure, MM was head and shoulders above most of her competition. The older generations tend to think she's the bees knees. But she's no Pamela Anderson. Or Kim Kardashian for that matter.

    Most (ca. 95%) of all current MLBers would fit your definition of "idiot savant". They can barely function in the real world. But then, with what they are paid per year, they don't have to. The perceptive ones, or at least those who hire the right sort of financial advisors, can hold onto their earnings post retirement and maintain the fiction that they're somewhat competent adults. Of course they don't have to worry; they'll always have their fanboys to clean up after them.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Up2Drew

    My dad served with Joe DiMaggio in Hawaii.

    His duties were to check one lock on one warehouse, daily. I know there’s no way to verify this, but pops was not prone to exaggeration.

  189. @Morris Applebaum IV
    @Anonymous

    "Watch a good MM film or two and get back to us. "


    I've seen everyone of her films (excluding a couple of sucky 1940s ones where she had cameo roles), most many times. My favorite performance of hers is in the Misfits and I thought she was most beautiful in Asphalt Jungle, though her role was fairly minor. I like her well enough, but don't think she can compare with (real) princesses like Grace Kelly and especially Rita Hayworth. It's like comparing Joe DiMaggio to Babe Ruth. I prefer DiMaggio, but I realize he wasn't as good.

    I have no doubt that if Marilyn Monroe were a 94 year old woman that we've been watching age our entire lives, she wouldn't be nearly as popular. Like I said, dying young can be a great career movie, but it's not to be recommended.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Buffalo Joe

    Morris, as the son of an Italian-American Yankee fan I grew up a Yank’s fan, rooting for Joltin’ Joe, Phil Rizzuto and Yogi. Ruth was great but remember Joe Di lost 1943 to 1945 while he served in the Army, that is a lot of possible stats. And if MM was still alive at 94 you still wouldn’t have a shot.

  190. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Thoughts



    my dad thinks I already had Corona

     

    Have the experts given us yet a diagnostic list of symptoms that identify a Coronainfection, and how it differs from a normal flu? One might presume that it would have to somehow be "stronger" or something.

    Replies: @Currier House, @epebble, @Thoughts

    If you google H1n1 versus Corona you’ll get some aggregate health website

    So far, Corona symptoms are On Average Less Than H1n1 symptoms by the people reporting

    I’m too lazy to bring up a window and find the website

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Thoughts

    I’m too lazy to bring up a window and find the website

    But please do continue to share with us all the facts you know doubt would find if you bothered to look.

    Replies: @William Badwhite

  191. Anonymous[412] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve, why are comments here always “awaiting moderation?” Because if stuff like:

    Top level Jocks are almost super-humanly healthy people, and they don’t typically get Flu shots. No H1N1 Flu variant shot, no testing positive for “Corona” virus. It is like a miracle how that works out.

    Is permitted here, I’m wondering what, if anything, is not being let through.

    • Replies: @Currier House
    @Anonymous

    The top level jocks not getting a flu shot and not getting Covid is a great comment.

    It very much should be let through, and it is.

    I speak as a top level jock who does not submit to flu shots, myself.

    Regular vigorous progressively-challenging exercise and clean diet, fellas. Avoid pharmaceuticals. Be naturally healthy. "Take care of yourself." Not that hard to understand.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  192. @Currier House
    @BenKenobi

    This is very important guys and gals. Je Suis is absolutely right.

    Covid affects <0.1% of people. The response negatively affects us all. This is so obvious as to be transparent.

    Live and let live. If you want to isolate, do. But don't interfere with the rest of us who want to live a normal healthy life ! Health is an individual matter. I would have thought the clientele here would see this, seeing as how we are so hostile to affirmative action and other central planning actions that totally are gumming up the works of society. In other words, I'd have thought y'all would be more individualistic and pro-individual choice.

    It gets tiring repeating this mantra of live and let live and look at the numbers. It's frustrating.

    Je Suis is totally right. I personally officially approve of his messages and messaging.

    Replies: @Thoughts

    Steve Readers are

    1) Not Religious

    2) Older

    The strange thing is…

    We had Russiagate, We had Flynn, We had Kavanaugh, We had Impeachment….

    Now we get Corona?

    First time is coincidence, second time is happenstance, third time is Enemy Action

    We’re on like the 5th time now…We’re definitely dealing with Enemy Action

    Basically this year’s flu/cold season is more virulant, and someone had a good idea to use that to their advantage.

    Just as an example…’Corona Can be Spread through The Eyes’ was a news headline this week.

    When looked at in a vacuum that is like Monster level frightening. When looked at through reality…That’s How all the Flus and Colds are spread!

    I will say this…Coronahoax proves our enemies deserve to win. So much cleverness, really a masterstroke of genius.

    And finally…if you trust data over your gut instinct you got some serious issues.

    • Replies: @Currier House
    @Thoughts

    Agree with most of your Thoughts here. Yes, to me from the very beginning it was clearly enemy action.

    I agree with you that this was an extremely clever move on their part.

    The thing is, though, mitigating that characterization, they are always trying so many different things, and have such vast resources, eventually they are going to stumble upon something that works well.

    I disagree with your assessment that they deserve to win or that they even are winning.

    Why? Because they are losing credibility extremely quickly. I feel that they did not anticipate the blowback, which was pure hubris on their part, and short-sightedness.

    The public does not enjoy being lied to.

    When the virus failed to materialize, and it has, folks get very resentful at having been sold a false bill of goods.

    People are waking up and demanding freedom. People who would not have been catalyzed into action are now realizing their very ability to subsist depends now on fighting back against the government. Moderate folks who just wanted to mind their own business are now thrust into the realization that the government really is their mortal enemy.

    We are witnessing a revival of true American culture.

    The "power elites" who did this to us, who foisted this hoax upon us and shut down our economy costing so many lives due to the stress alone, are going to be on the defensive very soon. They already are.

    While there are many gullible sheeple, there also is a kind of collective wisdom in the masses.

    There is a #Reopen group on Facebook focused on my state where I am seeing so much hatred poured forth against the government here, and so much mutual good will amongst the members who realize what is happening and what is likely going to happen and what kind of courage will be required by folks if they are going to open up their businesses to be able to feed their kids.

    In this whole thing, when the government forbade people from working, credit card companies were and are still charging interest. That says a lot to people. They are waking up.

    The lies are being exposed. More people have been attracted to liberty and anarchocapitalism and freedom because of the Covid hoax / power grab than really anything I can think of, real or hypothetical.

    Every day people are being converted over or are coming to the realization on their own. The tide is very tangibly turning. Just as with the Russia Collusion Hoax, where the elites and media lost massive credibility, so too, even more so, here with the Flu Hoax.

    Freedom is always the answer, for it creates organic order which is a quasi-biological function of human organisms in the social groups that our instinct causes us to form.

    , @Alexander Turok
    @Thoughts

    Hurricane season is coming up, I'm sure you'll blame the wreckers for that too.

    https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/amikafer.htm

  193. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    There seems to be a lot of confusion over what ages are more likely to get infected versus more likely to die.

    Replies: @Polynikes, @Brás Cubas

    James Thompson in his latest piece (‘Sneeze and Fly’) publishes Dr. Muge Cevik’s twitter review of several papers and she says this:

    Although limited, these studies so far indicate that susceptibility to infection increases with age (highest >60y) and growing evidence suggests children are less susceptible, are infrequently responsible for household transmission, are not the main drivers of this epidemic

    The twitter address is:

    I don’t know if this is biologically or socially related; someone is bound to come up with an explanation at some point.

  194. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Kaz



    excess mortality numbers

     

    Shutting down the hospitals for normal procedures to be ready for the Coronapocylypse might have something to do with it.

    Replies: @Polynikes, @Up2Drew

    Medicare paying $39,000 for a death certificate listing cause of death COVID-19 and use of a ventilator while paying $5,000 for a standard Medicare death certificate might tweak the numbers a bit, too.

  195. @Currier House
    @theMann

    I have been silently watching the drama transpire between Omar Mateen and Sailer, and I really like that Sailer let Omar's "boomerfag" comment through in the Gyms vs Coffee Shops thread.

    I agree very much with Omar's sentiment, which is, to translate: "we are healthy. Leave us alone. It's a free country. Live and let live. We want to squat and deadlift. If you don't want to, you don't have to. Also, the dread virus affects <0.1% of people.

    Plus there is treatment for it. And exercise and socializing is Prophylactic. So stop with the nanny-state apologetics that lead to ever increasing infringements on our rights."

    The boomer angle is very relevant because we millennials and zoomers have already been dealt a really shit hand, from the 2008 crisis and the 9/11 patriot act stuff before that, and offshoring, and immivasion ... Maybe some of us actually want to get married and have a stable family but we can't what with all the self-destructing of the economy going on. Maybe this frustrates us very much, to see the implosion of American meritocracy.

    And gyms, and socializing, was one great way for us to deal with this and extend our lifespans and periods of potency and relevance. And now y'all boomers "in control" so to speak (those who are established and could speak out if you wanted to or directly contact elected officials) are taking away these refuges from us. JSOM's hostility, in my judgement, is warranted.

    I also agree with Alden's commenting and appreciate and admire her writing style very much. It is a privilege that such people still exist.

    Replies: @Anon, @Thoughts

    Excellent Comment.

    I think everyone under 60…and a lot of people over 70…including my parents…are totally done with this B.S.

  196. @CantSleep
    @Steve Sailer

    As far as I know the actual girl, Diamond Eugene, and everyone else involved has never been asked about any of this. The filmmaker did eventually track down Diamond Eugene but was still obsessed with the whodunnit that he was stealthy going for (meaningless) handwriting samples instead of just confronting her about Trayvon. He never followed up. He also had an interview with George Zimmerman but it was early in the film and before he discovered all this about the fraudulent witness thus we never get to see Zimmerman's reaction to this reveal either.

    The film is mostly about his investigation. I would make more snarky comments about his investigation and overall style but he deserves credit for seemingly being the only person to discover this. Sadly we don't see any confrontations of those involved with this new evidence, which would have made for a more interesting film.

    I just finished a podcast with Glenn Loury and John Mcwhorter from December and they were both convinced.

    Seemingly not much media anywhere really picks up on it though - strange. The whole story is actually somewhat interesting. I would figure all sorts of anti-[BLM, democrat, fake news, etc] types would eat this story up, I certainly did when I came across it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @anonymous, @res

    I just finished a podcast with Glenn Loury and John Mcwhorter from December and they were both convinced.

    Part 1 of that is here. You can see Part 2 in “Up Next” at the right.

    • Replies: @CantSleep
    @res

    I have a lot of respect for these guys and really admire them for confronting the facts and implications of the case despite and detached from the tremendous baggage the filmmaker brings with him. I think Glenn and John give a very fair account of the film and the filmmaker. They also bring relevant details from the book which were not included in the film. I watched their podcast on the bloggingheads.tv platform and the more left-leaning audience on that site mostly roasted them for even airing the subject, how dare they platform Joel Gilbert, etc. Sadly very few commenters cared much to digest the facts of the case of the implications of them. The most sympathetic feeling seemed to be "this is interesting and real journalists need to follow up on this and verify," but spoiler alert: it's not happening.

    The BLM movement will have vestiges for the rest of our lifetimes and will be studied by "scholarly" types forever. The fact that the cornerstone event of BLM was as elaborate, verifiable and completely ignored hoax seems meaningful.

    John McWhorter says he is more cynical than ever about these issues. Right there with ya, John.

    Replies: @vhrm

  197. @Steve Sailer
    @Buffalo Joe

    Ronald Reagan used to have a job as a remote baseball announcer on the radio. He'd get a telegram with the outcome of each batter, then make up the balls and strikes in between.

    Replies: @Morris Applebaum IV, @Buffalo Joe, @Stan Adams

    That’s how it worked back in the day – not only for baseball, but for football. Many famous broadcasters, including Walter Cronkite, got their start as radio sportscasters.

    Cronkite began his career as “Walter Wilcox” at KCMO in Kansas City. (In those days, the radio stations gave their stars fake proprietary names, so that if someone left, he couldn’t take his name with him.)

    From Cronkite’s autobiography:

    We subscribed to a quite remarkable service provided by Western Union. Any radio station could purchase virtually any college football game that the networks weren’t broadcasting. Western Union sent a lone telegraph operator to the game’s press box, and from there he tapped out in Morse code a running report on the game.

    I never figured out where Western Union got all these football-knowledgeable operators. But they were good. They sent in their play-by-play reports in a tightly abbreviated form. In the radio studio at the receiving end, another Western Union operator translated the Morse code and typed out the cryptic message. It might read something like “Brown 3 LT Smith.” We play-by-play announcers then let our imaginations run. My report on this play, for instance, would go something like, “So the ball’s on the Trojans’ 43, second and eight. Notre Dame’s back in the huddle. They break. It’s a shift to the left. A handoff to Brown, who hits a solid wall there. He didn’t make much on that attempt to get back through that hole at left tackle. Maybe a yard or two. They’re coming out of that pileup. It looks like Eddie Smith made the tackle. That boy is having some game today. Notre Dame picked up two – well, it looks like three yards on the play. So Notre Dame’s on Southern Cal’s 40 – third and five.”

    The announcer’s skill at doing this, and the phony excitement he could generate on demand, were the keys to success….

    The Western Union service was nearly flawless, except on those occasions when the wire would go down. These were rare, and of short duration – a couple of minutes, tops. I filled by simply calling a time-out. Who, I figured, was counting? When the wire came back, the sending operator quickly filled us in on anything that had happened on the field. No problem. Except one day – and it was the all-important Notre Dame-Southern Cal game.

    The wire went down. Two minutes passed, three minutes passed, four minutes passed. The wire stayed down. It was too long for a time-out, too long for a couple of player substitutions. I decided there was nothing to do but resume the game. The Irish had the ball when the wire went down. So I moved them down the field in gentle increments.

    Now they were getting near the Southern Cal 20-yard line and I knew I couldn’t get them inside the twenty. *That* would make the papers the next day and expose my fictional game. Nor could I have any sensational plays for the same reason. So I kept the two teams moving back and forth as nearly mid-field as I could, and with absolutely nothing of interest happening.

    The wire was down almost a half-hour. When the wire came back, the operator in California gave me a quick fill-in to bring me up to date. It turned out that Southern Cal had scored. At the moment, I had Notre Dame with the ball. I had to get the ball back in Southern Cal’s possession and then down the field for the score. It was the longest and dullest quarter in the history of organized football. Only some Super Bowl games of recent years have had duller quarters, but at least they didn’t last as long as ours.

    About the same time I was doing football in KCMO, there was a fellow doing telegraph baseball reports in Des Moines. His name was Ronald Reagan. Many years later, at some occasion at the White House, President Reagan and I were exchanging stories and I told him of my long game.

    A year or so after that, I was chatting with some group about that Trojan-Irish broadcast and one of my listeners said: “Hey, you know I was at the White House a couple of weeks ago and President Reagan tells a story just like that about having to fill in when the wire went down during a baseball broadcast.”

    I won’t say the President of the United States stole my story, but…

    • Thanks: Buffalo Joe
  198. @Anonymous (n)
    @BenKenobi

    He's engaging in grade school level trolling and contributing negative value. The man is clearly a retard. I say this because only a retard would find sufficient enjoyment in low level trolling to tirelessly continue doing it day after day, month after month. I ask you this as an honest question: how many times can a dude swoop in and type a couple of gibberish sentences about boomers and hoaxes before it's inarguable he's a cretin? A couple, and I maybe chalk it up to bored frustration. Ten, and I'm beginning to seriously question their mental state. Approaching triple digits like Je Suis Troll, and it's clear the man is a full blown tard.

    Replies: @vhrm

    He’s not low IQ. He’s just being a jerk for some reason.

  199. @Steve Sailer
    @LondonBob

    But you can see the problem: NYC, at about 1/40th the US population is partway to herd immunity at the cost of 20k deaths. If you multiply 20k by 2 and then by 40, you get 1.6 million deaths.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @LondonBob, @leterip, @ILANA Mercer

    First. Thanks for running a blog that has not simply turned into an echo chamber of a particular covid perspective. Also, it is interesting how many examples of there are of contradictory covid data.

    I believe the deaths from covid are unlikely to reach 1.6 million as we continue on down our chaotic path to herd immunity. Some reasons that have been articulated on this blog include: First wave takes most vulnerable and super spreaders so IFR and Rt will drop; % Needed for Herd immunity is possibly much, much less than early forecasts of approx 70%; hospitals are unlikely to be overwhelmed going forward, etc.

    It appears we are already seeing some herd immunity impacts in many places. Every location, that has had significant outbreaks (Italy, UK, NYC, Wuhan, France, Spain, Sweden) have all peaked and began to drop off with very similar timing even though the lockdown policies and timing of the policies varied significantly. What else besides herd immunity could have caused this? It will be interesting to follow Sweden and other places such as Georgia that are lifting the lockdowns early to see if there is a second spike. I doubt they will have any problems.

    I prefer an approach that allows people to become infected as fast as reasonably possible even if the fatalities are on the higher end. As others have said this would limit the social, health and economic damage of what we have been doing. In addition, even if I was in a nursing home, I would prefer to be able interact with others normally vs. couped up in my room alone. A few weeks or month or so of isolation would be OK, but I would not want to wait, in my room, a few years until a vaccine program is implemented regardless of the risk of dying from covid.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @leterip

    "What else besides herd immunity could have caused this?"

    How has Slovenia achieved supposed Herd Immunity with a 3.1% antibody rate>

    Replies: @leterip

  200. @Anon
    Healthy people may not develop antibodies even if exposed to Covid. If Covid doesn't make it past the innate immune system, antibodies don't develop. The innate immune system can finish off the virus in some cases before it gets very far. Pro ball players are young and very healthy. However, they do spit and yell a lot, so they could transmit it. But is there even a pro ball player over 40? They're in the safe age bracket. The problem is that the coaches and umpires (often older) could get it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sideshow Bob

    This is all a bunch of unfalsifiable bunk pushed by the usual suspects to improve their own positions.

  201. @Kaz
    Anyone have updated excess mortality numbers?

    From the earlier ones I saw around mid april, the results were clear, this virus is actually quite deadly.

    But I haven't been able to find more updated ones.

    This is the only reason why I'm not so quick to dismiss it a as a hoax.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Sideshow Bob

    It’s all unfalsifiable. We aren’t going to know what really happened. But it will be used in the future as justification for all sorts of measures because “we all came together and sheltered-in-place to stave off the worst.”

  202. @Anonymous
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    Personally think MM is way overrated. For her time she seemed close to a 9, at best. Today, she wouldn’t even register as a 7. But back then in the ’50’s with the way women dressed and how they tended to look, sure, MM was head and shoulders above most of her competition. The older generations tend to think she’s the bees knees. But she’s no Pamela Anderson. Or Kim Kardashian for that matter.
     
    Pam Anderson has some, but mediocre, acting skills and is dumber than a tree. Her two kids appear to be about as smart as Farrah Fawcett's one (and Fawcett herself was not particularly dumb, but she made a particularly poor choice of sire in Ryan O'Neal.) Her breasts are implants and her figure is otherwise decent, but again, dumb as hell.

    The Kartrashians are all, uniformly, without any discernible talent whatever besides exploiting the gullibility of a few fans. Can't act, can't sing, they are famous for reality TV dysfunction and, like Anderson, 'sex tapes' of themselves somehow getting out. (Anderson made two, one with Tommy Lee and another with Bret Michels, both bejingled, Lee not very smart either.)

    Anderson did well on the small screen (Baywatch) and posters, that kind of thing, but was not even a B or C player as a film actress. Barb Wire??

    On the other hand...no one would argue Monroe was the greatest, or even in the top 5, actresses in terms of acting ability. But probably in the top 25 or so. She was better as an actress than she was given credit for, but there is an asterisk: she went to being a Method actress pretty much in mid-stream, usually for people already successful, trying that is sure disaster. It's an unappreciated but serious achievement.

    But as a movie star: she is unmatched, in terms of putting asses in the seats. She still winds up on magazine covers and has books published on her life, because they sell. People whose parents were not born when she died are still transfixed by her. Every new blond hotsy in film, music, modeling is compared to her, over and over.

    What did she do right? Well, for one, she had the nearly perfect hourglass figure, and she just comes across a certain way in photos, on motion picture film, in art. She was a decent enough actress, and she turned in some key roles at a key pivotal time in American culture. And she left them wanting more: she died at what looking back seems the perfect time careerwise.

    Perhaps that's one reason Star Trek became the franchise it did: they ended it after three years, it never jumped the shark, and a groundswell of fans built up and it became a cult. Who knnows, maybe that's how most religions start. I don't know. But if anyone reading this is still around in fifty years, find out if anyone remembers the Kardashians or Pam Anderson. Then find out if anyone knows who Marilyn Monroe was.

    I bet they do.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @Coemgen, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    As is common for the older generations that have the MM fever, you’re allowing the little head to do the thinking for the big head.

    • Troll: Meretricious
  203. @Anonymous
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    MM had a little plastic surgery - nose job and chin augmentation. Pam and Kim followed to a much greater extent. MM's ass was kind of flat, that's about my only criticism of her in her enhanced form. Better than Pam and maybe similar to original Kardashian.

    The surgeon was brilliant in imagining who she could be, as he took a girl next door and made her into a smouldering sex bomb. Much more restrained than today's approach.

    I find the plastic approach off-putting. An ugly person with silicone under skin where their breasts might be is still the same person really, just trying harder to fool the world. Kind of like gender reassignment but on a lesser scale. But there is a market for it evidently.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Honestly, this verbal cunnilingus of someone long since dead and wasn’t all that to begin with during her lifetime, is a bit nauseating. Let it go, grow up, and get a life.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    You don’t get her, that’s fine. Leave it alone.

    Without naming names, I “don’t get” a large number of famous actors, singers, musicians, genres, bands, shows some of which have intense and devoted fandoms.

    In some cases, like a certain trio from Canada, I can respect what they do technically without it appealing to me and if I had to listen to them constantly for an entire shift at work, as I once did, I’d demand the music be changed or squelched or I be transferred. As I did . (Their response was to fire me; my response was to get a higher paying job closer to home after sticking them for unemployment while flying commercial to NYC and hanging out with musicians I liked better for a few days. I got to meet Lou Reed’s current guitar player then, Mike Rathke, and saw John Fahey live. That was long before 9/11 and the (t)SA.)

  204. @Buffalo Joe
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Yo, nicely stated but MM had the sultry look, as Hawaiians say the Komanawannaleiyou look.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Uh, yes, it’s called “I will definitely leiyou if you match my price.” Also related to “If you got the money, I got the time.”

    Kim K has the same look, as do most THOTS and women in their prime with any degree of looks.

  205. @jesse helms think-alike
    The corona-hoax is not the virus itself which likely does exist but the overreaction to it.
    Even with numbers massaged to include every death from other causes, the death toll will be in line with 1968 flu season, the worst since the Spanish Flu of 1918. Adults who experienced that event tell me they have no memory of any alarm being raised at that time; they don't remember it at all.
    That smirking little Italian devil and his string-pullers are laughing into their sleeves at the gullible morons, Drumpf included, who fell for their plot to wreck America.

    Steve especially seems to have accepted all this with unusual credulity. Having been a loyal reader for decades I expect Steve's default reaction ato be suspicion of the face value reason for any new thing while attempting to divine the true impetus behind events.

    Replies: @U. Ranus, @Neil Templeton

    Even with numbers massaged to include every death from other causes, the death toll will be in line with 1968 flu season, the worst since the Spanish Flu of 1918. Adults who experienced that event tell me they have no memory of any alarm being raised at that time; they don’t remember it at all.

    Well. They’ll remember this one, ’cause we’re special. We can light it up.

  206. @leterip
    @Steve Sailer

    First. Thanks for running a blog that has not simply turned into an echo chamber of a particular covid perspective. Also, it is interesting how many examples of there are of contradictory covid data.

    I believe the deaths from covid are unlikely to reach 1.6 million as we continue on down our chaotic path to herd immunity. Some reasons that have been articulated on this blog include: First wave takes most vulnerable and super spreaders so IFR and Rt will drop; % Needed for Herd immunity is possibly much, much less than early forecasts of approx 70%; hospitals are unlikely to be overwhelmed going forward, etc.

    It appears we are already seeing some herd immunity impacts in many places. Every location, that has had significant outbreaks (Italy, UK, NYC, Wuhan, France, Spain, Sweden) have all peaked and began to drop off with very similar timing even though the lockdown policies and timing of the policies varied significantly. What else besides herd immunity could have caused this? It will be interesting to follow Sweden and other places such as Georgia that are lifting the lockdowns early to see if there is a second spike. I doubt they will have any problems.

    I prefer an approach that allows people to become infected as fast as reasonably possible even if the fatalities are on the higher end. As others have said this would limit the social, health and economic damage of what we have been doing. In addition, even if I was in a nursing home, I would prefer to be able interact with others normally vs. couped up in my room alone. A few weeks or month or so of isolation would be OK, but I would not want to wait, in my room, a few years until a vaccine program is implemented regardless of the risk of dying from covid.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    “What else besides herd immunity could have caused this?”

    How has Slovenia achieved supposed Herd Immunity with a 3.1% antibody rate>

    • Replies: @leterip
    @Steve Sailer

    I really wonder at what point we will understand this disease enough that so much data does not seem confounding. Like your example.

    My wife has symptoms back in March that indicated Covid (exhaustion, difficulty breathing, low pulse ox, etc but not enough to be hospitalized). Tests at that time were very precious and she was not tested. She recovered in a couple weeks. My SIL works treating covid patients at a large hospital in a covid hot spot. He was convinced she had it. So a few days ago, we decided to pay for a private serology test with Quest just to confirm. Test came back negative. We were surprised but SIL wasn't. Turns out his hospital recommends their staff do not take serology tests because they do not have confidence that all the tests on the market are reliable/meaningful yet.

    As I look at data, I am very skeptical about any particular bits accuracy. I think deaths are most accurate but still off by a factor of two or more. I have been starting to watch trends at euromomo. They show, for european countries, the difference between deaths this year and compare to past years. Still lots of problems with this measure but still more accurate.

  207. @Thoughts
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    If you google H1n1 versus Corona you'll get some aggregate health website

    So far, Corona symptoms are On Average Less Than H1n1 symptoms by the people reporting

    I'm too lazy to bring up a window and find the website

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I’m too lazy to bring up a window and find the website

    But please do continue to share with us all the facts you know doubt would find if you bothered to look.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    @Steve Sailer

    Hopefully you'll consider blocking (or not approving) comments like these in the future.

  208. @res
    @CantSleep


    I just finished a podcast with Glenn Loury and John Mcwhorter from December and they were both convinced.
     
    Part 1 of that is here. You can see Part 2 in "Up Next" at the right.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxPV9G8G9xM

    Replies: @CantSleep

    I have a lot of respect for these guys and really admire them for confronting the facts and implications of the case despite and detached from the tremendous baggage the filmmaker brings with him. I think Glenn and John give a very fair account of the film and the filmmaker. They also bring relevant details from the book which were not included in the film. I watched their podcast on the bloggingheads.tv platform and the more left-leaning audience on that site mostly roasted them for even airing the subject, how dare they platform Joel Gilbert, etc. Sadly very few commenters cared much to digest the facts of the case of the implications of them. The most sympathetic feeling seemed to be “this is interesting and real journalists need to follow up on this and verify,” but spoiler alert: it’s not happening.

    The BLM movement will have vestiges for the rest of our lifetimes and will be studied by “scholarly” types forever. The fact that the cornerstone event of BLM was as elaborate, verifiable and completely ignored hoax seems meaningful.

    John McWhorter says he is more cynical than ever about these issues. Right there with ya, John.

    • Replies: @vhrm
    @CantSleep

    I just watched Part 1 and it's really interesting for the sooner meta reasons that you mention:

    1) Theu spend a good 5 or 10 minutes in the beginning talking about how basically they were afraid of even broaching this subject for months because they were afraid they'd get cancelled/deplatformed. They don't use those words, but that's what they're saying. That gives a feel for the community in which they operate. And We're talking about tenured professors. Idk Glenn, but McWorther is fairly well established i think, and still they were afraid.

    2) I'm a bit surprised by Mcworther's "priors" on the Trayvon Martin case. I assumed her know it was BS, but apparently he was a true believer. (he mentions his own believer articles from the time)

    3) the segment starting ~34:00 is a good watch. It looks like _just in 2019_ McWorther has started noticing hate hoaxes are a real thing and mentions that now, for the first time, he is skeptical when he hears one of these outrageous racism kind of claims whereas previously he would generally believe.

    There's a lot of hemming and hawing, but better late than never!

  209. @Buffalo Joe
    @Travis

    Travis, chewing tobacco or dipping snuff is a foul disgusting habit BUT, I did both when I smoked. Smoking was a hard quit but chewing tobacco was harder, so much nicotine right into your system. I know cigarettes are bad for your lungs and heart, but I miss a smoke now and then and miss "chew" even more...30 plus years off of both. Now, let me go get my wife and you can explain to her why I should go out and buy a pouch of "Red Man" or "Levi Garrett" or a tin of Copenhagen.

    Replies: @Travis

    i started using Snus about 10 years ago when I was 40. I never smoked or used chewing tobacco.

    Snus is dried tobacco, no need to spit, it is not as strong as Copenhagen. It comes in pouches. I did quit last year but started using Snus again 2 weeks ago when they realized Nicotine protects you from the Wahu flu. They now have products like Snus which are tobacco free, so no carcinogens. Lyft is a nicotine pouch that is actually stronger than the Snus I use, hits you faster.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Travis

    Travis, it takes a while to learn how to chew tobacco and the Copenhagen was made palatable with a few drops (or more) of rum added to the tin. I might try the Lyft, if is truly tobacco free. You know you are hooked on chewing tobacco when you leave it in your mouth and have a hard roll and coffee at break. Sad huh?

    Replies: @Travis

  210. @Currier House
    BJ, of course it is about control and not health. Flu and a dozen other causes of death kill more people every year.

    To your point -- absolutely, they (or we) need to open all beaches, trails, cottages, boat ramps, ballfields, movie theaters, stadia, houses of worship, restaurants, completely and without restriction, immediately.

    Health is an individual matter, an individual responsibility. Our civilization is based on allowing individuals to transact with other willing adults on their own terms, and to seek out their own risks.

    Government messes up everything it touches, including and especially health. If people want to NOT go to a movie theater, they can stay home. If the owner of a stadium wants to keep it closed, she can.

    But no government has any constitutional authority or morally legitimate basis to prevent these adults from transacting.

    Live and let live. Everything must be completely opened immediately. ESPECIALLY MY GYM!!!!

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Currier, BJ ?….to quote Robert DiNiro in “Taxi Driver”, “You talkin to me, you talkin to me?” Nice post. Be Safe.

  211. @Travis
    Most Baseball players use chewing tobacco. Players using nicotine products will have rates of infection 4 times lower than the non-nicotine using population. https://www.medicine.news/2020-04-25-world-renowned-neurobiologist-says-nicotine-extract-protect-against-coronavirus.html

    Nicotine inhibits the expression of angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) in multiple organs and cell types. Angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) is found in the heart, kidneys and other organs. In COVID-19, the respiratory disease caused by the novel coronavirus, it is thought to play a role in how the infection progresses into the lungs...."When we found that one of the strongest biomarkers, ACE2, was much higher in men than in women, I realised that this had the potential to explain why men were more likely to die from COVID-19 than women," said Iziah Sama, a doctor at UMC Groningen who co-led the study. https://news.trust.org/item/20200510222331-y953v

    SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, gains entry into human cells by latching onto protein receptors called ACE2, which are found on certain cells’ surfaces.

    The researchers have proposed nicotine attaches to the ACE2 receptors, thereby preventing the virus from attaching and potentially reducing the amount of virus that can get into a person’s lung cells. https://science.thewire.in/health/coronavirus-smoking-nicotine-research/

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @William Badwhite

    You didn’t tell the full story. Once infected, nicotine addicts are 2x as likely to die from COVID-19 than non-nicotine users. After all, COVID-19 directly impacts the lungs, and most nicotine addicts tend to have weaker lungs (as well as weaker immune systems) than those who don’t use tobacco products.

    Also, chew does cause all types of cancer does it not? Yes it does. And, in the case of chew, at a fairly younger age, because chewing tobacco gets into the bloodstream a whole lot quicker than smoking.

  212. In tonight’s Buffalo News, in their continuing effort to add a personal touch to Covid-19 deaths, they feature a front page story of two women, one 94 years old and the other 85 years old, who both died of Covid-19. The 94 year old was a dementia patient at a nursing home, the younger woman was also in a nursing home. Both deaths occured in April, but the News just got the stories from their families…because a nursing home can’t disclose that info. So to recap, the News has featured in the last week the Covid death of a 92 yr old man, a 99 yr old woman, a 94 yr old woman and an 85 yr old woman. They also featured the story of a 39 yr old woman who had a stoke and encephalitis but died from Covid.

  213. @Travis
    @Buffalo Joe

    i started using Snus about 10 years ago when I was 40. I never smoked or used chewing tobacco.

    Snus is dried tobacco, no need to spit, it is not as strong as Copenhagen. It comes in pouches. I did quit last year but started using Snus again 2 weeks ago when they realized Nicotine protects you from the Wahu flu. They now have products like Snus which are tobacco free, so no carcinogens. Lyft is a nicotine pouch that is actually stronger than the Snus I use, hits you faster.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Travis, it takes a while to learn how to chew tobacco and the Copenhagen was made palatable with a few drops (or more) of rum added to the tin. I might try the Lyft, if is truly tobacco free. You know you are hooked on chewing tobacco when you leave it in your mouth and have a hard roll and coffee at break. Sad huh?

    • Replies: @Travis
    @Buffalo Joe

    another benefit of Lyft and other nicotine pouches, no need to spit and does not stain your teeth

  214. @Anonymous
    @Polynikes

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/

    Italy evidently got on top of the transmission in early March. Their approach ultimately has been effective to date.

    Replies: @Polynikes

    Or they were hit earlier and their progression has happened largely the same as every place else. Pretty much every country “got on top of the transmission” on the same path despite policies used. Here is the US by percent positive tests (to eliminate testing ramp up): https://twitter.com/EthicalSkeptic/status/1259958999883100160?s=20

    Ramping up the tests so high as to search out every last positive case is keeping the total cases up a little in comparison to early when testing was ore scarce. But it is declining in the US. Percent positives is even dropping in the middle of the country. Wisconsin is on a 14 day downward trend of percent positive tests, for example.

    Here’s a comparison of several countries: https://twitter.com/KaiSteve2/status/1259343336768368641?s=20

    If anything, Italy may have prolonged things. Or they were just hit harder and didn’t capture a lot of early non-serious cases with tests.

  215. @Steve Sailer
    @leterip

    "What else besides herd immunity could have caused this?"

    How has Slovenia achieved supposed Herd Immunity with a 3.1% antibody rate>

    Replies: @leterip

    I really wonder at what point we will understand this disease enough that so much data does not seem confounding. Like your example.

    My wife has symptoms back in March that indicated Covid (exhaustion, difficulty breathing, low pulse ox, etc but not enough to be hospitalized). Tests at that time were very precious and she was not tested. She recovered in a couple weeks. My SIL works treating covid patients at a large hospital in a covid hot spot. He was convinced she had it. So a few days ago, we decided to pay for a private serology test with Quest just to confirm. Test came back negative. We were surprised but SIL wasn’t. Turns out his hospital recommends their staff do not take serology tests because they do not have confidence that all the tests on the market are reliable/meaningful yet.

    As I look at data, I am very skeptical about any particular bits accuracy. I think deaths are most accurate but still off by a factor of two or more. I have been starting to watch trends at euromomo. They show, for european countries, the difference between deaths this year and compare to past years. Still lots of problems with this measure but still more accurate.

  216. vhrm says:
    @CantSleep
    @res

    I have a lot of respect for these guys and really admire them for confronting the facts and implications of the case despite and detached from the tremendous baggage the filmmaker brings with him. I think Glenn and John give a very fair account of the film and the filmmaker. They also bring relevant details from the book which were not included in the film. I watched their podcast on the bloggingheads.tv platform and the more left-leaning audience on that site mostly roasted them for even airing the subject, how dare they platform Joel Gilbert, etc. Sadly very few commenters cared much to digest the facts of the case of the implications of them. The most sympathetic feeling seemed to be "this is interesting and real journalists need to follow up on this and verify," but spoiler alert: it's not happening.

    The BLM movement will have vestiges for the rest of our lifetimes and will be studied by "scholarly" types forever. The fact that the cornerstone event of BLM was as elaborate, verifiable and completely ignored hoax seems meaningful.

    John McWhorter says he is more cynical than ever about these issues. Right there with ya, John.

    Replies: @vhrm

    I just watched Part 1 and it’s really interesting for the sooner meta reasons that you mention:

    1) Theu spend a good 5 or 10 minutes in the beginning talking about how basically they were afraid of even broaching this subject for months because they were afraid they’d get cancelled/deplatformed. They don’t use those words, but that’s what they’re saying. That gives a feel for the community in which they operate. And We’re talking about tenured professors. Idk Glenn, but McWorther is fairly well established i think, and still they were afraid.

    2) I’m a bit surprised by Mcworther’s “priors” on the Trayvon Martin case. I assumed her know it was BS, but apparently he was a true believer. (he mentions his own believer articles from the time)

    3) the segment starting ~34:00 is a good watch. It looks like _just in 2019_ McWorther has started noticing hate hoaxes are a real thing and mentions that now, for the first time, he is skeptical when he hears one of these outrageous racism kind of claims whereas previously he would generally believe.

    There’s a lot of hemming and hawing, but better late than never!

    • Agree: CantSleep
  217. @Thoughts
    @Currier House

    Steve Readers are

    1) Not Religious

    2) Older

    The strange thing is...

    We had Russiagate, We had Flynn, We had Kavanaugh, We had Impeachment....

    Now we get Corona?

    First time is coincidence, second time is happenstance, third time is Enemy Action

    We're on like the 5th time now...We're definitely dealing with Enemy Action

    Basically this year's flu/cold season is more virulant, and someone had a good idea to use that to their advantage.

    Just as an example...'Corona Can be Spread through The Eyes' was a news headline this week.

    When looked at in a vacuum that is like Monster level frightening. When looked at through reality...That's How all the Flus and Colds are spread!

    I will say this...Coronahoax proves our enemies deserve to win. So much cleverness, really a masterstroke of genius.

    And finally...if you trust data over your gut instinct you got some serious issues.

    Replies: @Currier House, @Alexander Turok

    Agree with most of your Thoughts here. Yes, to me from the very beginning it was clearly enemy action.

    I agree with you that this was an extremely clever move on their part.

    The thing is, though, mitigating that characterization, they are always trying so many different things, and have such vast resources, eventually they are going to stumble upon something that works well.

    I disagree with your assessment that they deserve to win or that they even are winning.

    Why? Because they are losing credibility extremely quickly. I feel that they did not anticipate the blowback, which was pure hubris on their part, and short-sightedness.

    The public does not enjoy being lied to.

    When the virus failed to materialize, and it has, folks get very resentful at having been sold a false bill of goods.

    People are waking up and demanding freedom. People who would not have been catalyzed into action are now realizing their very ability to subsist depends now on fighting back against the government. Moderate folks who just wanted to mind their own business are now thrust into the realization that the government really is their mortal enemy.

    We are witnessing a revival of true American culture.

    The “power elites” who did this to us, who foisted this hoax upon us and shut down our economy costing so many lives due to the stress alone, are going to be on the defensive very soon. They already are.

    While there are many gullible sheeple, there also is a kind of collective wisdom in the masses.

    There is a #Reopen group on Facebook focused on my state where I am seeing so much hatred poured forth against the government here, and so much mutual good will amongst the members who realize what is happening and what is likely going to happen and what kind of courage will be required by folks if they are going to open up their businesses to be able to feed their kids.

    In this whole thing, when the government forbade people from working, credit card companies were and are still charging interest. That says a lot to people. They are waking up.

    The lies are being exposed. More people have been attracted to liberty and anarchocapitalism and freedom because of the Covid hoax / power grab than really anything I can think of, real or hypothetical.

    Every day people are being converted over or are coming to the realization on their own. The tide is very tangibly turning. Just as with the Russia Collusion Hoax, where the elites and media lost massive credibility, so too, even more so, here with the Flu Hoax.

    Freedom is always the answer, for it creates organic order which is a quasi-biological function of human organisms in the social groups that our instinct causes us to form.

  218. @Anonymous
    Steve, why are comments here always "awaiting moderation?" Because if stuff like:

    Top level Jocks are almost super-humanly healthy people, and they don’t typically get Flu shots. No H1N1 Flu variant shot, no testing positive for “Corona” virus. It is like a miracle how that works out.
     
    Is permitted here, I'm wondering what, if anything, is not being let through.

    Replies: @Currier House

    The top level jocks not getting a flu shot and not getting Covid is a great comment.

    It very much should be let through, and it is.

    I speak as a top level jock who does not submit to flu shots, myself.

    Regular vigorous progressively-challenging exercise and clean diet, fellas. Avoid pharmaceuticals. Be naturally healthy. “Take care of yourself.” Not that hard to understand.

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @Currier House

    Don't forget your electrolytes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAqIJZeeXEc

    Replies: @Currier House

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Currier House

    You're quoting Jose Canseco's playbook. He too did it the all natural way, except of course for the juice.

    Replies: @Currier House

  219. @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    He married the most famous and desirable movie star of her (or, as it turned out, anyone’s) day, watched TV in the hotel on their honeymoon every minute when not fucking, smacked her around and expected her to be a typical housewife one hundred percent of the time…..I mean, morals and desires aside, that in addition just screams stupid.
     
    You do realize that, while this sort of behavior may seem distasteful, especially today, there's nothing inherently "stupid" about it, don't you? Most men would behave this way if they could get away with it. But most men aren't 50s era superstar athletes and among the most famous men in America. DiMaggio was, so he could.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @AnotherDad

    He married the most famous and desirable movie star of her (or, as it turned out, anyone’s) day, watched TV in the hotel on their honeymoon every minute when not fucking, smacked her around and expected her to be a typical housewife one hundred percent of the time…..I mean, morals and desires aside, that in addition just screams stupid.

    You do realize that, while this sort of behavior may seem distasteful, especially today, there’s nothing inherently “stupid” about it, don’t you? Most men would behave this way if they could get away with it.

    I consider myself to be pretty generic in these sorts of matters, and i have zero desire to smack a woman around. My guess is that’s true of 90% of guys. (There are some sociopaths out there, but they aren’t the majority.)

    Enjoying your wife, wanting her to be a dutiful housewife, watching some tube … sure. I think that’s pretty normal. (Though i think most guys on their honeymoon would want to enjoy time with their wife beyond the sex, not just park their ass in front of the tube.) But smacking her around. No.

    (No whether any of this is actually what happened? The two people who were there aren’t talking.)

  220. @Currier House
    @Anonymous

    The top level jocks not getting a flu shot and not getting Covid is a great comment.

    It very much should be let through, and it is.

    I speak as a top level jock who does not submit to flu shots, myself.

    Regular vigorous progressively-challenging exercise and clean diet, fellas. Avoid pharmaceuticals. Be naturally healthy. "Take care of yourself." Not that hard to understand.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Don’t forget your electrolytes.

    • Replies: @Currier House
    @Alexander Turok

    Yep, that about describes the situation. Stay safe, stay home, flatten the curve, do nothing as the government institutes full-blown socialism destroying the middle class and small business entirely and forces individuals to conceal their individuality in public like what Afghans did to women with the veils except we do it to everyone here now.

    People are waking up, are furious, want blood.

    Kids are starving. People are having heart attacks denied access to their exercise regimes be it golf, trails or gyms. Credit cards are charging interest. Futures are being deferred.

    It's not a game, not a test. The lockdown cheerleaders are very much on the wrong side of history now. The government has no right meddling in matters of individual health.

    This lockdown business is exactly what you guys protest in education -- dumbing down the whole class to not hurt the feelings or discriminate against the dumbest lowest percentiles. Only you're doing it in the health arena, making everyone as unhealthy, as the least healthy. Who got that way from a sedentary lifestyle.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Buffalo Joe

  221. @Currier House
    @Anonymous

    The top level jocks not getting a flu shot and not getting Covid is a great comment.

    It very much should be let through, and it is.

    I speak as a top level jock who does not submit to flu shots, myself.

    Regular vigorous progressively-challenging exercise and clean diet, fellas. Avoid pharmaceuticals. Be naturally healthy. "Take care of yourself." Not that hard to understand.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    You’re quoting Jose Canseco’s playbook. He too did it the all natural way, except of course for the juice.

    • Replies: @Currier House
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    You think it's funny, but if you want to live a long healthy life, this is what you have to do, eat well and exercise well and avoid poisons.

    Yoga is a great way to start - Bikram yoga, for example, is great for beginners.

    It also purifies the mind. The brain is an organ. When you get the body healthy, the brain, too, is more effectively fed with oxygen and other nutrients and minerals.

    Everyone who doesn't exercise always says to people who do exercise, "How's the juice?" Absurd. There is such a thing as natural exercise. There is protein in food. Yogurt, lentils and so forth.

    Subtlety. It's what intellectuals crave.

    Also, if you are healthy, you don't have to worry about dying from CoVID-1984.

    Lastly, it's progressive. There's always more to do and learn. Heavier weights to lift. Stretch postures to achieve. An even more wholesome look and aura to obtain. This is a real ethos, gentlemen. It's a meritocracy. Isn't that what we are all about here, individual merit?

    Replies: @Polynikes

  222. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Currier House

    You're quoting Jose Canseco's playbook. He too did it the all natural way, except of course for the juice.

    Replies: @Currier House

    You think it’s funny, but if you want to live a long healthy life, this is what you have to do, eat well and exercise well and avoid poisons.

    Yoga is a great way to start – Bikram yoga, for example, is great for beginners.

    It also purifies the mind. The brain is an organ. When you get the body healthy, the brain, too, is more effectively fed with oxygen and other nutrients and minerals.

    Everyone who doesn’t exercise always says to people who do exercise, “How’s the juice?” Absurd. There is such a thing as natural exercise. There is protein in food. Yogurt, lentils and so forth.

    Subtlety. It’s what intellectuals crave.

    Also, if you are healthy, you don’t have to worry about dying from CoVID-1984.

    Lastly, it’s progressive. There’s always more to do and learn. Heavier weights to lift. Stretch postures to achieve. An even more wholesome look and aura to obtain. This is a real ethos, gentlemen. It’s a meritocracy. Isn’t that what we are all about here, individual merit?

    • Replies: @Polynikes
    @Currier House

    You're getting some push back--maybe because of how you phrased things--but you're right. Most of the evidence points to the healthy being mostly immune from the worst effects (e.g. death) of this virus. Even among the older crowd co-morbidities are present in a very high percentage of the deaths.

    The best way to avoid diabetes, obesity, high-blood pressure, etc...is through regular exercise and a healthy diet.

    Much of the 80+ crowd would likely still be at risk, but it seems much of the under 80 crowd might have avoided being knocked off by this disease if they were healthier.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  223. @Alexander Turok
    @Currier House

    Don't forget your electrolytes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAqIJZeeXEc

    Replies: @Currier House

    Yep, that about describes the situation. Stay safe, stay home, flatten the curve, do nothing as the government institutes full-blown socialism destroying the middle class and small business entirely and forces individuals to conceal their individuality in public like what Afghans did to women with the veils except we do it to everyone here now.

    People are waking up, are furious, want blood.

    Kids are starving. People are having heart attacks denied access to their exercise regimes be it golf, trails or gyms. Credit cards are charging interest. Futures are being deferred.

    It’s not a game, not a test. The lockdown cheerleaders are very much on the wrong side of history now. The government has no right meddling in matters of individual health.

    This lockdown business is exactly what you guys protest in education — dumbing down the whole class to not hurt the feelings or discriminate against the dumbest lowest percentiles. Only you’re doing it in the health arena, making everyone as unhealthy, as the least healthy. Who got that way from a sedentary lifestyle.

    • Agree: Manfred Arcane
    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @Currier House


    forces individuals to conceal their individuality in public like what Afghans did to women with the veils except we do it to everyone here now.
     
    Your ancestors had to conceal their identity with gas masks and run into the fire. You should be able to do this without verbally chimping out.

    Kids are starving.
     
    Link?

    Only you’re doing it in the health arena, making everyone as unhealthy, as the least healthy. Who got that way from a sedentary lifestyle.
     
    You can still go out and run. Fill some milk cartons with sand. The sense of helplessness is just pathetic.

    https://assets.uuworld.org/sites/live-new.uuworld.org/files/snowflake_adjustment-bigger.jpg
    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Currier House

    Currier, In Buffalo every student qualifies for free lunch and they usually have a breakfast service or snack. They are still handing out the lunches. Buffalo Public Schools do not take attendence so every child is in their seat every day. That is so from the truth that it is gag worthy. But, a lunch is prepared for all the children registered in school, so lots of lunches are discarded or donated. No kids are starving.

  224. @james wilson
    @Reg Cæsar

    To the contrary, putting the ball in the cup is similar to what billiard players do. Spacial cognitive demands are very high, also the reason women cannot compete with men in a sport such as billiards, entirely lacking in physical demands.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Women have no need for cups.

  225. Anonymous[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Anonymous

    Honestly, this verbal cunnilingus of someone long since dead and wasn't all that to begin with during her lifetime, is a bit nauseating. Let it go, grow up, and get a life.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    You don’t get her, that’s fine. Leave it alone.

    Without naming names, I “don’t get” a large number of famous actors, singers, musicians, genres, bands, shows some of which have intense and devoted fandoms.

    In some cases, like a certain trio from Canada, I can respect what they do technically without it appealing to me and if I had to listen to them constantly for an entire shift at work, as I once did, I’d demand the music be changed or squelched or I be transferred. As I did . (Their response was to fire me; my response was to get a higher paying job closer to home after sticking them for unemployment while flying commercial to NYC and hanging out with musicians I liked better for a few days. I got to meet Lou Reed’s current guitar player then, Mike Rathke, and saw John Fahey live. That was long before 9/11 and the (t)SA.)

  226. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve, slight correction. I think Regan got the game in progress on a "teletype" not by telegram.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    An interesting question. Reagan didn’t know Morse code and few at a radio station would have. Teletype and ticker tape like machines existed but were quite expensive, also noisy. So the machine had to be in a different room or the sound would have dimed out the whole operation. The technical logistics would be interesting to know.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @Anonymous

    Ticker tape machine doesn't seem unreasonably loud with glass cover in place.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N_A5hUDtZY

  227. @Currier House
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    You think it's funny, but if you want to live a long healthy life, this is what you have to do, eat well and exercise well and avoid poisons.

    Yoga is a great way to start - Bikram yoga, for example, is great for beginners.

    It also purifies the mind. The brain is an organ. When you get the body healthy, the brain, too, is more effectively fed with oxygen and other nutrients and minerals.

    Everyone who doesn't exercise always says to people who do exercise, "How's the juice?" Absurd. There is such a thing as natural exercise. There is protein in food. Yogurt, lentils and so forth.

    Subtlety. It's what intellectuals crave.

    Also, if you are healthy, you don't have to worry about dying from CoVID-1984.

    Lastly, it's progressive. There's always more to do and learn. Heavier weights to lift. Stretch postures to achieve. An even more wholesome look and aura to obtain. This is a real ethos, gentlemen. It's a meritocracy. Isn't that what we are all about here, individual merit?

    Replies: @Polynikes

    You’re getting some push back–maybe because of how you phrased things–but you’re right. Most of the evidence points to the healthy being mostly immune from the worst effects (e.g. death) of this virus. Even among the older crowd co-morbidities are present in a very high percentage of the deaths.

    The best way to avoid diabetes, obesity, high-blood pressure, etc…is through regular exercise and a healthy diet.

    Much of the 80+ crowd would likely still be at risk, but it seems much of the under 80 crowd might have avoided being knocked off by this disease if they were healthier.

    • Thanks: Currier House
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Polynikes

    The surest way to avoid high blood pressure is to die young.

  228. @Polynikes
    @Currier House

    You're getting some push back--maybe because of how you phrased things--but you're right. Most of the evidence points to the healthy being mostly immune from the worst effects (e.g. death) of this virus. Even among the older crowd co-morbidities are present in a very high percentage of the deaths.

    The best way to avoid diabetes, obesity, high-blood pressure, etc...is through regular exercise and a healthy diet.

    Much of the 80+ crowd would likely still be at risk, but it seems much of the under 80 crowd might have avoided being knocked off by this disease if they were healthier.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    The surest way to avoid high blood pressure is to die young.

    • Thanks: Currier House
  229. @Currier House
    @Alexander Turok

    Yep, that about describes the situation. Stay safe, stay home, flatten the curve, do nothing as the government institutes full-blown socialism destroying the middle class and small business entirely and forces individuals to conceal their individuality in public like what Afghans did to women with the veils except we do it to everyone here now.

    People are waking up, are furious, want blood.

    Kids are starving. People are having heart attacks denied access to their exercise regimes be it golf, trails or gyms. Credit cards are charging interest. Futures are being deferred.

    It's not a game, not a test. The lockdown cheerleaders are very much on the wrong side of history now. The government has no right meddling in matters of individual health.

    This lockdown business is exactly what you guys protest in education -- dumbing down the whole class to not hurt the feelings or discriminate against the dumbest lowest percentiles. Only you're doing it in the health arena, making everyone as unhealthy, as the least healthy. Who got that way from a sedentary lifestyle.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Buffalo Joe

    forces individuals to conceal their individuality in public like what Afghans did to women with the veils except we do it to everyone here now.

    Your ancestors had to conceal their identity with gas masks and run into the fire. You should be able to do this without verbally chimping out.

    Kids are starving.

    Link?

    Only you’re doing it in the health arena, making everyone as unhealthy, as the least healthy. Who got that way from a sedentary lifestyle.

    You can still go out and run. Fill some milk cartons with sand. The sense of helplessness is just pathetic.

  230. @Thoughts
    @Currier House

    Steve Readers are

    1) Not Religious

    2) Older

    The strange thing is...

    We had Russiagate, We had Flynn, We had Kavanaugh, We had Impeachment....

    Now we get Corona?

    First time is coincidence, second time is happenstance, third time is Enemy Action

    We're on like the 5th time now...We're definitely dealing with Enemy Action

    Basically this year's flu/cold season is more virulant, and someone had a good idea to use that to their advantage.

    Just as an example...'Corona Can be Spread through The Eyes' was a news headline this week.

    When looked at in a vacuum that is like Monster level frightening. When looked at through reality...That's How all the Flus and Colds are spread!

    I will say this...Coronahoax proves our enemies deserve to win. So much cleverness, really a masterstroke of genius.

    And finally...if you trust data over your gut instinct you got some serious issues.

    Replies: @Currier House, @Alexander Turok

    Hurricane season is coming up, I’m sure you’ll blame the wreckers for that too.

    https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/amikafer.htm

  231. @Buffalo Joe
    @Travis

    Travis, it takes a while to learn how to chew tobacco and the Copenhagen was made palatable with a few drops (or more) of rum added to the tin. I might try the Lyft, if is truly tobacco free. You know you are hooked on chewing tobacco when you leave it in your mouth and have a hard roll and coffee at break. Sad huh?

    Replies: @Travis

    another benefit of Lyft and other nicotine pouches, no need to spit and does not stain your teeth

  232. @Anonymous
    @Buffalo Joe

    An interesting question. Reagan didn’t know Morse code and few at a radio station would have. Teletype and ticker tape like machines existed but were quite expensive, also noisy. So the machine had to be in a different room or the sound would have dimed out the whole operation. The technical logistics would be interesting to know.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

    Ticker tape machine doesn’t seem unreasonably loud with glass cover in place.

  233. @Travis
    Most Baseball players use chewing tobacco. Players using nicotine products will have rates of infection 4 times lower than the non-nicotine using population. https://www.medicine.news/2020-04-25-world-renowned-neurobiologist-says-nicotine-extract-protect-against-coronavirus.html

    Nicotine inhibits the expression of angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) in multiple organs and cell types. Angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) is found in the heart, kidneys and other organs. In COVID-19, the respiratory disease caused by the novel coronavirus, it is thought to play a role in how the infection progresses into the lungs...."When we found that one of the strongest biomarkers, ACE2, was much higher in men than in women, I realised that this had the potential to explain why men were more likely to die from COVID-19 than women," said Iziah Sama, a doctor at UMC Groningen who co-led the study. https://news.trust.org/item/20200510222331-y953v

    SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, gains entry into human cells by latching onto protein receptors called ACE2, which are found on certain cells’ surfaces.

    The researchers have proposed nicotine attaches to the ACE2 receptors, thereby preventing the virus from attaching and potentially reducing the amount of virus that can get into a person’s lung cells. https://science.thewire.in/health/coronavirus-smoking-nicotine-research/

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @William Badwhite

    Most Baseball players use chewing tobacco

    No they don’t. Its prohibited at the NCAA level since 1990 and in the minor leagues more recently. It was banned for new major leaguers starting in 2015 or 2016, I forget which. Guys in the league before then are grandfathered and can still use.

    • Replies: @Travis
    @William Badwhite

    most players still use nicotine despite the ban which only effects players who entered the league after 2016. The NCAA banned tobacco 25 years ago , yet most players coming from college are tobacco users. In a NCAA survey of 21,000 college athletes the overall percentage of acknowledged use in the previous 12 months was 42.5%. It climbed to 52.3% in 2009, but dropped to 47.2% in 2015 — though that’s still nearly half of the NCAA players in a sport in which it is banned...https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-baseball-tobacco-20150614-story.html

    Despite the ban in the NCAA and the minors, an estimated 30% of ballplayers were still using tobacco in 2018. If bans are so successful, why do major leaguers who've come from college or the minors -- which both have bans -- do it?

    The bans are for PR , no players are being suspended for tobacco use. Players still use the lozenges and other nicotine products and can easily use chew , disguised as other products. They are also free to use tobacco off the field anytime they desire.

  234. On the other hand, I would imagine they are fairly popular, gregarious, and well-traveled

    That’s tough to generalize across both players and team employees.

    Players were at spring training and then, as I understand it, most of them just went home. They’re well-traveled during the regular season, and I’m sure that a lot of them travel extensively during the off-season
    before they report to spring training in mid-February. As the COVID outbreak accelerated, however, most of them were at spring training, which means going to the same facility every day and perhaps taking a short trip within Florida (or Arizona) to play another team. Spring training is a relatively low travel time of the year for baseball players.

    A lot of the front office jobs are known as being hole up in the office for many hours per week sort of jobs. I think that’s if anything grown in recent years as the use of analytics means that many of these jobs are now about statistical analysis and building computer models.

    The upper level front office people – GM’s and assistant GM’s – are very much about interacting with peers from other MLB teams, players’ agents, etc. via phone/email/text, *not* about flying all over the country for face-to-face meetings.

    Baseball does have Winter Meetings where a lot of personnel from teams get together in person at a single location – much like a business conference – but that happened back in early December.

    Scouts are one group of people who typically travel a lot to watch games in person. This time of year, that would have ended at whatever point high school and college teams stopped playing. In-person scouting of other pro teams (majors and minors) would be at spring training games during February and March.

    I agree that it tends to argue against extremely widespread prevalence of this disease. It would be interesting to know how many of the tested people were at spring training facilities – both players and other employees (e.g., coaches) – compared to the the number living and working in the home cities of the 26 teams who had people tested.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Realist101

    I'm looking forward to seeing the paper on the MLB study. I wonder how many grounds crew, ticket takers, and crackerjack vendors were included. It might have been a pretty nationally representative sample or it might have quite upscale. Either one is interesting, but it would be useful to know which one it was.

  235. @Currier House
    @Alexander Turok

    Yep, that about describes the situation. Stay safe, stay home, flatten the curve, do nothing as the government institutes full-blown socialism destroying the middle class and small business entirely and forces individuals to conceal their individuality in public like what Afghans did to women with the veils except we do it to everyone here now.

    People are waking up, are furious, want blood.

    Kids are starving. People are having heart attacks denied access to their exercise regimes be it golf, trails or gyms. Credit cards are charging interest. Futures are being deferred.

    It's not a game, not a test. The lockdown cheerleaders are very much on the wrong side of history now. The government has no right meddling in matters of individual health.

    This lockdown business is exactly what you guys protest in education -- dumbing down the whole class to not hurt the feelings or discriminate against the dumbest lowest percentiles. Only you're doing it in the health arena, making everyone as unhealthy, as the least healthy. Who got that way from a sedentary lifestyle.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Buffalo Joe

    Currier, In Buffalo every student qualifies for free lunch and they usually have a breakfast service or snack. They are still handing out the lunches. Buffalo Public Schools do not take attendence so every child is in their seat every day. That is so from the truth that it is gag worthy. But, a lunch is prepared for all the children registered in school, so lots of lunches are discarded or donated. No kids are starving.

  236. @Steve Sailer
    @Thoughts

    I’m too lazy to bring up a window and find the website

    But please do continue to share with us all the facts you know doubt would find if you bothered to look.

    Replies: @William Badwhite

    Hopefully you’ll consider blocking (or not approving) comments like these in the future.

  237. @Realist101

    On the other hand, I would imagine they are fairly popular, gregarious, and well-traveled
     
    That's tough to generalize across both players and team employees.

    Players were at spring training and then, as I understand it, most of them just went home. They're well-traveled during the regular season, and I'm sure that a lot of them travel extensively during the off-season
    before they report to spring training in mid-February. As the COVID outbreak accelerated, however, most of them were at spring training, which means going to the same facility every day and perhaps taking a short trip within Florida (or Arizona) to play another team. Spring training is a relatively low travel time of the year for baseball players.

    A lot of the front office jobs are known as being hole up in the office for many hours per week sort of jobs. I think that's if anything grown in recent years as the use of analytics means that many of these jobs are now about statistical analysis and building computer models.

    The upper level front office people - GM's and assistant GM's - are very much about interacting with peers from other MLB teams, players' agents, etc. via phone/email/text, *not* about flying all over the country for face-to-face meetings.

    Baseball does have Winter Meetings where a lot of personnel from teams get together in person at a single location - much like a business conference - but that happened back in early December.

    Scouts are one group of people who typically travel a lot to watch games in person. This time of year, that would have ended at whatever point high school and college teams stopped playing. In-person scouting of other pro teams (majors and minors) would be at spring training games during February and March.

    I agree that it tends to argue against extremely widespread prevalence of this disease. It would be interesting to know how many of the tested people were at spring training facilities - both players and other employees (e.g., coaches) - compared to the the number living and working in the home cities of the 26 teams who had people tested.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I’m looking forward to seeing the paper on the MLB study. I wonder how many grounds crew, ticket takers, and crackerjack vendors were included. It might have been a pretty nationally representative sample or it might have quite upscale. Either one is interesting, but it would be useful to know which one it was.

  238. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Brinkley is a fine looking woman who has aged extraordinarily well. She is also not an actress. She’s a model. She had one small movie role involving her in a Ferrari flirting with Chevy Chase. It was even less significant than Big LMM in ‘Friends’. The “Smelly Cat”song.

    Rebarbative politics aside, Jane Fonda is a damn good actress. Not unattractive, but not a great beauty and not a great female figure, though she was buff and famously did exercise videos.

    I don’t believe the American white gene pool has so radically changed in 100 years. Now, while most women are fat, women (and men) in serious entertainment roles tend to be really buff, working out in gyms with a lot of specialized machines. A Brigitte Nielsen in the eighties or a Gwen Stefani in the nineties-really sculpted, hardbody women-just didn’t exist in the fifties.

    Selection criteria changed. Look at Playboy centerfolds over the years. At first the hourglasses with a little fluff- not obese, but soft-were the ideal. Then it changed, several times. I find the hourglass with a little fluff ideal personally. Several old time actresses have that in a still frame. In motion only a handful stand out.

    I doubt any woman I’d rate as extraordinarily attractive would be having a major career in films right now. And if she wanted one, she’d be lifting and would have a six pack like Gwen in her No Doubt days. Which would turn me off. I respect her as a singer and band frontwoman, not necessarily as a white woman for shudmarking, but wouldn’t have any desire to boff her anyway. Not into hardbodies. I’m trying to think of a current actress or singer I’d like to have sex with, just as a hypothetical question, and-right now I can’t think of anyone really famous. I honestly just can’t.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The Paramore girl who looks like a 1978 Deborah Harry has a nice bottom and legs, but is flat chested and has gross tattoos. Samantha Fish has nice legs but her demeanor isn’t too alluring.

  239. @William Badwhite
    @Travis


    Most Baseball players use chewing tobacco
     
    No they don't. Its prohibited at the NCAA level since 1990 and in the minor leagues more recently. It was banned for new major leaguers starting in 2015 or 2016, I forget which. Guys in the league before then are grandfathered and can still use.

    Replies: @Travis

    most players still use nicotine despite the ban which only effects players who entered the league after 2016. The NCAA banned tobacco 25 years ago , yet most players coming from college are tobacco users. In a NCAA survey of 21,000 college athletes the overall percentage of acknowledged use in the previous 12 months was 42.5%. It climbed to 52.3% in 2009, but dropped to 47.2% in 2015 — though that’s still nearly half of the NCAA players in a sport in which it is banned…https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-baseball-tobacco-20150614-story.html

    Despite the ban in the NCAA and the minors, an estimated 30% of ballplayers were still using tobacco in 2018. If bans are so successful, why do major leaguers who’ve come from college or the minors — which both have bans — do it?

    The bans are for PR , no players are being suspended for tobacco use. Players still use the lozenges and other nicotine products and can easily use chew , disguised as other products. They are also free to use tobacco off the field anytime they desire.

  240. @AnotherDad
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    #DataAverse

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    According to the CDC, out of supposedly 58,000 plus covid deaths, 6 have between the ages of 6-14 (with no mention of comorbidity). Six.

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex

    Why are my children under house arrest, AD? Why? Because Sailer might get sick? Pretty selfish.

  241. @Steve Sailer
    @LondonBob

    But you can see the problem: NYC, at about 1/40th the US population is partway to herd immunity at the cost of 20k deaths. If you multiply 20k by 2 and then by 40, you get 1.6 million deaths.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @LondonBob, @leterip, @ILANA Mercer

    You think Neil Ferguson and his team at Imperial College will have the last macabre laugh, Steve?

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