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One Good Effect of Lockdowns: Girls Are de-Transitioning Back to Being Girls
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From Mums.net discussion group about how while school has been canceled, some young schoolgirls who had claimed to be boys were “de-transitioning:”

The effect of lockdown on transitioning teen girls (116 Posts)
Add message | ReportThegenderbreadperson Sun 28-Jun-20 23:02:40

I mentioned this on another thread, but as a worker in a high school we have found out during weekly phone calls home that since lockdown that most of our FtM students have de transitioned, perhaps as there is no longer the group peer pressure or affirmation from teachers? I was interested to see if there are any more examples – the other thread was started about Dr Haddock, and I felt this was worthy of its own thread.

In our school there were nine girls out of a approx 160 student year 9 cohort who identified as boys. Seven have now de transitioned since lockdown and one is considering it. Out of those nine I would have said three of them weren’t as committed as the others and had said they were “thinking about being non binary”, but were keen to remain part of that friendship group. It really is infectious.

28-Jun-20 23:05:05
If I were a journalist, I might be very interested in 8 out of 9 ‘transboys’ detransitioning over lockdown. Just saying.

Sun 28-Jun-20 23:07:04
It’s very interesting and points to a large social contagion effect.

It crosses my mind that there might be less in the way sexist/objectifying remarks from boys at school and out and about as well.
A pressure from another angle that’s been removed.

Sun 28-Jun-20 23:10:04
Oh! My friend whose teenage DD has been identifying as first non binary and then a boy for the last 3 years rang me the other day and in conversation was using her DDs birth name instead of the boys name she’s been using for the last couple of years. I asked how that was going and she was a bit vague and just said it had been a really lovely few months and that her DD seemed to be doing a lot of growing up. I didn’t push it because we have pretty much agreed to disagree on the matter in the past – I use her DDs preferred name and pronouns but my friend is well aware I think it’s all bullshit! I wonder…

Sun 28-Jun-20 23:22:46
I wonder whether as well as a break from social contagion, it’s a respite from the adolescent male gaze, banter etc.

Part of the craze of adolescent girls declaring themselves to be boys is a female version of the Peter Pan syndrome of boys not wanting to grow up into men. Puberty is scary for girls and not a few girls would like to just stay the way they are a little longer and not turn into women right now. Lots of parents kind of feel the same way.

Roughly, age 6 to 11 is kind of a halcyon era of childhood that other Great Apes species move through much quicker. It’s a time to learn lots of little skills without being distracted by sex. Lots of girls can’t wait to get to puberty and womanhood and boys, but lots of other girls don’t want to be in such a rush.

So then these natural feelings get plugged into a crazed ideological fad because crazed ideological fads are how we roll these days.

 
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  1. BenKenobi says:

    Children, once removed from Pozz Factory, revert back to their natural state. You don’t say.

  2. JimDandy says:

    Trans is a trend, and a big reason for that is that transitioning brings power. Trans people are essentially untouchable, especially in a school environment, where kids are guaranteed to be rewarded and protected for their “brave” choice. With this kind of empowerment, it is not uncommon for trans kids to act as the school bullies–Jr. Antifa agents, if you will, constantly reminding the cowed cis kids who rules the playground.

    Millions of parents have no doubt made similar observations to the ones written in this mum.net post. Look for the Next Big Thing in Social Justice Warrioring to be a relentless attack on home schooling.

    “A Harvard University law professor has sparked controversy after calling for a ban on homeschooling. Elizabeth Bartholet told Harvard Magazine that it gives parents “authoritarian” control over their kids — and can even expose them to white supremacy and misogyny.”

  3. I wonder how much of the Floyd craze was due to a fear among the globohomozogmo establishment that their traditional institutions of indoctrination were shut down.

    The school re-openings will be the next big controversy come August. You can bet the conspiracists here who ordinary call public schools “liberal indoctrination factories” will be loudly demanding they re-open. When asked to actually babysit their own kids rather than have the government do it, all that ideology goes out the window, just as liberals throw out the antiracism when you ask to send junior to a black or brown school.

    I wonder how Steve will cover it.(rhetorical question, he’ll probably just ignore it.)

  4. Anonymous[303] • Disclaimer says:

    Trump’s clown show messaging to girls and everyone else in the world: Press Secretary in her tight sundress showing lots of skin at the podium. Pics all over his twitter yesterday.

    The country is in an emergency. Public face of the government is non-serious aging bottle blonde attention whore dressed in vacation wear…

    This makes us look like a silly joke.

    Notice in her twitter avatar pic she is in fact wearing a dark business suit. What changed?

    Buffoon-In-Chief must be on megadose statins. Statins make old guys weak and soft… they cloud judgment…

    Trump is running a sloppy ship while we’re in multiple crises! Why should China/Russia respect the administration when this is the state of affairs.

  5. The institutionalized child abuse and emotional terrorism public schools promise to inflict upon students returning this fall will cause a tsunami of home schooling. The Democratic Party terror attack known as BULLSHIT-2020 will mitigate many social pathologies encouraged by government schools.

    We 💜 you CoronaHoax!

  6. @JimDandy

    “A Harvard University law professor has sparked controversy after calling for a ban on homeschooling. Elizabeth Bartholet told Harvard Magazine that it gives parents “authoritarian” control over their kids — and can even expose them to white supremacy and misogyny.”

    Yep. We’d be making a big mistake if we permitted wypipos to have a hand in how their children are raised. That’s for us to decide. It’s quite enough that we’re still permitting them to reproduce in the first place, albeit in smaller and smaller numbers of course.

    But now that we’ve all agreed that they shouldn’t have equal rights, it’s high time we deny them any rights at all. White people = Nazis. Say it along with me. Or else.

    • Troll: starthorn
    • Replies: @Anon
  7. My friend whose teenage DD has been identifying as first non binary and then a boy

    If she’s a DD, she will never pass as a boy.

  8. @Reg Cæsar

    For some reason, Unz.com doesn’t have a “hubbahubba” button…

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
  9. I’m “wife”—I’ve finished that—
    That other state—
    I’m Czar—I’m “Woman” now—
    It’s safer so—

    How odd the Girl’s life looks
    Behind this soft Eclipse—
    I think that Earth feels so
    To folks in Heaven—now—

    This being comfort—then
    That other kind—was pain—
    But why compare?
    I’m “Wife”! Stop there!

  10. Anon[834] • Disclaimer says:

    Kids and teenagers learn to behave and think like adults by being around adults and watching adult behavior. Youngsters who spend most of their time with their peers can become incorrectly socialized as they egg each other on and pressure each other into bad behavior and craziness.

    We stick kids in a zoo of their peers for several hours each day, and that’s not really good for them, but this is the default way our modern society functions. We tell kids that they shouldn’t succumb to peer pressure. However, that’s exactly how people learn. Young humans are biologically programed to model their behavior on those of others. In a normal environment, you’re picking up cues from all the adults around you.

    But if you’re surrounded only by your age peers, you don’t grow up properly. Peer groups are overrated. You want kids to learn from good examples, not bad examples. This is one reason why home-schooled kids are better emotionally adjusted than public school kids. Home-schooled kids learn more adult behaviors simply by being more exposed to adults.

    The problem is, humans evolved in small bands of hunter-gatherers, and there were plenty of adults around to mentor and control kids. A modern society in which kids spend all their time with other kids and barely see or interact with adults, is highly abnormal and is detrimental to their emotional growth.

    Leftist who egg each other on into ever-crazier ideological beliefs and idiotic behavior are not socialized properly. Their personalities and ‘sense of self’ are not fully formed, and their emotional growth is stunted. Their mimic their peers like chameleons, and have no inner selves.

  11. Dennis Prager recently had an author on his radio show named Abigail Shrier. Her book is ‘Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters’, and she talked about how it’s a contagion that spreads through groups of young female friends because they want to be supportive of each other, and that their instinct to be empathetic leads them to take on the symptoms of someone who is suffering and in pain.

    The ones who take it (transitioning) the furthest are likely to be psychologically damaged in some profound way, and will show manifestations of their trauma in things like ‘cutting’ and other forms of self-harm.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  12. @Reg Cæsar

    Very enjoyable but what is a DD for real? I googled it and got designated driver

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
  13. notsaying says:

    What will happen when the restored girls go back to school? I wish they’d stay girls but if going trans was their response to various pressures before, it seems likely it will be their response again.

    I wish we could help them deal with their fears in more positive and effective ways.

    I also wonder how common this phenomenon has been over the past few months.

  14. inertial says:

    It crosses my mind that there might be less in the way sexist/objectifying remarks from boys at school and out and about as well.

    Girls think they are boys; boys are to blame.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
  15. Andrew M says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    “DD” is mumsnet slang for “Dear Daughter”. They have built up their own jargon over the years, much like any messageboard.

    • Replies: @Photondancer
  16. Kronos says:
    @BenKenobi

    (Unless they grafted a penis on you. That might not disappear so fast.)

    One of the strangest things about the “TransAm” City destination is how many “towns” you’d expect to see before arriving to it on the Highway.

    You’d think breast implants and penis enhancement surgery among teens and children would be the first town on the way to Transville. The first social barrier to bypass towards substantial body augmentation amongst the young.

    Thankfully, that social taboo still seems to be in place (for now.)

    Also, any indication if any hyper-competitive parents have pressured their boys to be girls just to increase the odds of an Ivy League acceptance letter? Like “Jimmy has great math scores, but if he ever identified as a girl, Harvard’s Math department would accept him in a flash.”

  17. Wilkey says:

    There seems to be an increase in the number of young women who are claiming to be bisexual. I know two couples with college-age daughters who openly claim they’re bisexual. Having known both of these girls for quite some time, I place the odds at about 2% that either of them is actually genuinely bisexual. But claiming to be so strikes me as maybe the somewhat less rebellious form of claiming to be transgender. It gives them “cred” by allowing them to claim to be different or exotic while they never have to actually do anything to prove it.

    If there’s any good that may come out of this pandemic it would be dramatically decreased faith in the public school system, and increased faith by many parents that they have the skills and common sense to guide their own childrens’ education – or at the very least to pay more attention to the shit our school system is teaching them.

    The alleged benefit of public schools is that it “socializes” children by exposing them to other people their age. But maybe surrounding children with hundreds of immature, impulsive, hormonal kids their age while being taught by leftist teachers indocrinating them with the current state religion was never a great idea to begin with.

  18. Kronos says:
    @Anonymous

    Hillary cornered the pantsuit market years ago. I’m proud Trump is doing everything possible to avoid paying royalties.

  19. Oh! My friend whose teenage DD

    STOP the presses, that’s your story right there

    Way to bury the lede

  20. @Wilkey

    There seems to be an increase in the number of young women who are claiming to be bisexual. I know two couples with college-age daughters who openly claim they’re bisexual. Having known both of these girls for quite some time, I place the odds at about 2% that either of them is actually genuinely bisexual. But claiming to be so strikes me as maybe the somewhat less rebellious form of claiming to be transgender. It gives them “cred” by allowing them to claim to be different or exotic while they never have to actually do anything to prove it.

    I noticed an uptick in open lesbianism amongst young hot girls out and about a few years ago, oft in concert with tattoos, and surmised much the same thing. I reckoned that, where once a girl had to bring home a black or a foreign to scandalise her parents – and before that she had to bring home any boy she wasn’t married to – now she has to bring home a girl. Of course, that was five years ago, so now she has to become a boy – and in five years, a black boy.

    • Replies: @Joseph Doaks
  21. @personfellowindividual

    it’s a contagion that spreads through groups of young female friends because they

        are gullible and stupid – as is obvious by examining advertising material for products aimed solely at women.

    FIFYA.

    • Replies: @Photondancer
  22. I wonder whether as well as a break from social contagion, it’s a respite from the adolescent male gaze, banter etc.

    It’s a shame those idiots at mumsnet can only accept the phenomenon if it’s men’s fault, somehow.

    Then again, this is so dependable that there’s no point crying about it; rather, skilled politicians ought to be able to use it. Let feminists decry the baleful effect of boys on teenage girls, and MGTOWs and trannies file lawsuits against sex discrimination in schooling, and what’s a concerned mumsnet denizen to do but quit their job and live off the generous homeschooling grant? Coming soon from a Trump administration near you (we hope)

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Alden
  23. Sometimes I think it may have something to do with the relentless pathological push to constantly erase boundaries, so that things lack shape and definition. You can’t enjoy the pleasures of hearing one particular song, if it’s been re-mixed with eight other songs on top of it. When I was in high school, boys and girls who were discovering their sexual identities took a kind of pride and pleasure in their innate “girl”-ness or “boy”-ness. It’s possible that for these younger kids, much of that has been eroded.

    When I was a kid for some reason I knew a lot of multilingual people. There was a joke that we knew people who could speak five or six languages, and couldn’t say anything interesting in any of them. I remember one girl who had grown up in multiple countries on three continents, for whom no one place was really “home.” She said to me, “You’re lucky that you only speak English: it’s really YOUR language, so you can feel at ease in it.” Maybe the same way with sex identity.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @sayless
  24. Andrew M says:
    @Stack Over Glow

    When asked to actually babysit their own kids rather than have the government do it, all that ideology goes out the window

    Homeschooling is the nuclear option. As a logical argument, it’s the lazy equivalent of “if you hate it so much here, why don’t you move to Canada?” Just because I don’t like one part of the package, doesn’t mean I should throw out the whole thing.

    • Replies: @Anonymousse
  25. @BenKenobi

    https://tomwoods.com/ep-1050-how-state-and-society-invented-adolescence-and-screwed-up-young-people/

    “According to Dr. Robert Epstein, adolescence is an artificial construct of recent vintage, unknown in earlier times or indeed in many parts of the world today. The creation of this category, and the assumptions that inform it (by state and society alike) have harmed young people, he argues, and are responsible for the anxiety and angst we associate with the teenage years. These problems are not evident in cultures that lack this category. We explore Dr. Epstein’s thesis and book in today’s episode.”

    Read the original article at TomWoods.com. http://tomwoods.com/ep-1050-how-state-and-society-invented-adolescence-and-screwed-up-young-people/

    Secession: it’s what you want.

    • Thanks: JohnnyWalker123
  26. ‘Part of the craze of adolescent girls declaring themselves to be boys is a female version of the Peter Pan syndrome of boys not wanting to grow up into men. Puberty is scary for girls and not a few girls would like to just stay the way they are a little longer and not turn into women right now. Lots of parents kind of feel the same way.’

    …and I’d suggest that there used to be a whole lot of structure and ritual and role-playing that gave the whole transition some predictability. Taking all that away may not have improved matters.

  27. @Anonymous

    Notice in her twitter avatar pic she is in fact wearing a dark business suit. What changed?

    Hmm, the season, maybe? Stop your hyperventilating but do get back to us if she shows up in a Hawaiian shirt.

  28. @Keith Richards's secret account

    ‘It’s a shame those idiots at mumsnet can only accept the phenomenon if it’s men’s fault, somehow.

    Then again, this is so dependable that there’s no point crying about it; rather, skilled politicians ought to be able to use it. Let feminists decry the baleful effect of boys on teenage girls, and MGTOWs and trannies file lawsuits against sex discrimination in schooling, and what’s a concerned mumsnet denizen to do but quit their job and live off the generous homeschooling grant? Coming soon from a Trump administration near you (we hope)’

    The bad man/good woman paradigm is hardly a novelty. Only the details have altered.

  29. Anonymous[214] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    “Maybe the same way with sex identity.”
    Excellent point.
    And maybe it is the same way with finding the girl or boy who complements you.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  30. @Chrisnonymous

    That’s why we have the Simpsons.

  31. @Anon

    The healthiest environment for children is one in which they’re mostly around a tight-knit, mixed-age group of people. Extended family, neighbors, Church, PTA, bowling league.

    This gives them an opportunity to hang out with people their age, while also interacting extensively with older kids and adults of various ages. This environment helps bring up kids, instills them wisdom, and gives them an opportunity to be useful. It’s a good environment for encouraging traditional courtship/dating too. In some respects, these tight-knit groups sort of resemble the hunter-gatherer environment that we evolved in for thousands of years.

    Other environments aren’t quite so healthy.

    -When kids hang out in age-segregated peer groups, they are deprived of social interaction with wiser adults. They also often encourage each other’s worst tendencies, which is one reason why there’s so much debauchery in nightclubs, frat houses, and college towns.
    -When kids are alone with their electronic devices (tv, video games, iPod, iPad, Netflix, etc.) too much, then they’re deprived of basic interaction and grow up to be maladjusted weirdos.
    -When kids hang out on social media, that actually can’t substitute for real-life interaction. Real-life interaction is continuous, face-to-face, and involves body language. Social media interaction is sporadic, happening through artificial “selfies” or short lines of (often incomprehensible) “text speak.” It’s like substituting soy for steak.

    Unfortunately, in today’s America (and probably to a similar extent all first-world Western countries), kids spend an enormous amount of time either on social media or playing on some device. The main exception to this is when kids are at school, during which time they’re with an age-segregated peer group. In recent years, there’s been an interesting shift towards devices and social media, and away from peer groups.

    Extended families rarely get together these days, except maybe for special days (Christmas, Thanksgiving, weddings, baby showers, and funerals). Neighbors don’t talk to each other anymore; in many cases don’t even know one another. Church attendance is way down (especially among the young), with many people transitioning from smaller neighborhood Churches to massive, impersonal Mega Churches. Lots of civic organizations (PTA, bowling leagues, lodges, Sons of Italy, country clubs, etc) have declined significantly in size or become defunct.

    Workplaces sometimes formed communities in the past, when people often held jobs for life and families often interacted together (especially at company events/picnics). These days with all the job hopping that takes place, it’s difficult to build relationships with a constantly rotating cast of coworkers. So that means fewer long-term family friends for your kids.

    The social atomization of today’s society is very unhealthy for mental health, especially for young people who are still in their development phase. Being exposed to hours of electronic devices per day is unhealthy. Carrying on a friendship/relationship through social media is unhealthy. Trying to find a spouse/date on Tinder is unhealthy.

    Our modern environment offers affluence, convenience, and access to all sorts of cool technologies. However, we’ve strayed very far from the close communities which our socially-interconnected ancestors evolved in for many thousands of years. This has had all sorts of interesting implications, especially for our mental health.

    • Agree: starthorn
  32. El Dato says:

    Maybe reading Harry Potter at home isn’t so bad.

  33. Anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:
    @JimDandy

    A straight white male friend of mine from middle school once told me, “Man, if I had your test scores I’d be running shit at Skull and Crossbones at Yale.” –nb. he didnt say he’d be trying to cure cancer or anything. He always had a Machiavellian streak.

    Well, he was a little ahead of the curve transitioning and there I saw him one day: sympathetic profile on the front page of the New York Times. He is now management at a Fortune 100 company and one of three or four employees featured on the “diversity” page of their website. Completely bulletproof.

    And no, he was no effeminate at all as a teen. I have a good comparison because he had a brother, also my friend, who was effeminate and came out as gay in high school. Narcissistic, on the other hand….

    • Replies: @JimDandy
  34. @Stack Over Glow

    It’s not a conspiracy that makes government schools into nothing but liberal indoctrination centers. It’s just the fact the Big Ed is as left-wing as the rest of the Establishment, and any teacher not toeing their line won’t last long.

    Here’s the problem. Many parents aren’t aware enough or are too lazy to do homeschooling, yet they will not be allowed to form their own small schools. Because of all the LOCKDOWN stupidity, if you try to get a dozen or two kids’ parents interested in forming your own small school, sharing the work load nicely and finding a good curriculum (like Ron Paul’s), you will be prevented from doing so. There will be lots of the usual reasons cited, but the newest will be “THE CORONA! IT’S THE BLACK PLAGUE COME AGAIN!”

    This shouldn’t be about babysitting. It should be about free schools vs. the lefty propaganda camps, but any kind of free school (free of government interference, that is) will be shut down faster than you can say “LOCKDOWN”.

  35. @Anonymous

    Yes, nothing says hot teenage girl like a 30 y.o. woman.

  36. So what about boys being boys?

    TPTB thought about a lot of things when they cooked up this lockdown, but they seemed to miss some of the unintended consequences of Home Schooling.

    • Replies: @anon
  37. Is that also what anorexia was about?

  38. Jake says:

    You cannot scream this too often: THE IDEOLOGY OF SCHOOLS HAS BEEN EVIL FOR A VERY LONG TIME. THE EVIL PERVADES PRIVATE SCHOOLS AS WELL AS PUBLIC, AND IS PART OF MANY HIOME-SCHOOL PROGRAMS.

    It is essential for parents to know what is taught and how things are taught. It is essential for parents to make certain their kids’ school peers are as normal as possible – normal being the kind of thing that does not seem at variance with, even opposite to, the worldview of Andy’s Mayberry and Beaver’s Mayfield.

    And that means that the children of huge numbers of white parents need to be avoided, just like the children of the vast majority of BLACKS and Jews need to be avoided.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  39. @Andrew M

    It started in the women’s magazines decades ago. They also use DH (Dear Husband or Hubbie) and DS (Dear Son) when being polite.

  40. sayless says:
    @Anonymous

    Kayleigh McEnany dresses badly for her position and has an uninflected and flat delivery, whether she’s reading from notes or speaking off the cuff. No change in delivery, tone or volume from one subject to the next.

    She also talks through her nose and speaks from too high in her chest, sounds like a kid, there’s an epidemic of that these days. I’ve read rave reviews about her performance but can’t get past how unprofessionally she comes across. To the Administration: She needs a professional wardrobe, elocution lessons, and some assistance from an acting coach. Way too much Valley Girl.

  41. That’s very girly behavior, for girls who are actually boys inside.

  42. @Achmed E. Newman

    They’ll just hold up the occupancy permit. Good takes, Achmed.

  43. @Anon

    And all along I always thought we were merely a bunch of mischievous scamp. You know, boys will be boys..

  44. sayless says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Audrey Hepburn spoke three or four languages as a young girl and was equally comfortable in all of them. Later in life she said she didn’t have a language that she could simply relax into when she was tired, and wished she did.

  45. @Achmed E. Newman

    Serious, non-troll question: how are parents prevented from starting their own schools?

  46. @Anonymous

    It makes the First Law of Female Journalism types even madder than it does faggots like you.

    That is the whole point.

  47. Ganderson says:
    @sayless

    “Valley Girl” seems standard for the media: and all the men sound like fags.

  48. Ganderson says:

    Another thing that is coming in the fall when and if the schools open is a huge heaping helping of anti-racism education. I’d argue to that English departments are the most ‘woke’, followed by social studies and science. There are still a few old timey liberal History teachers- New Dealers, Great Society types who nevertheless love their country. Fewer every year, though. Few actual conservatives, and now that I’m retired, one less.

  49. @sayless

    Uh, I’m pretty sure Trump picked Kayleigh because she is very blonde and a bit tacky.

  50. @sayless

    But that ‘s the plan — being talked down to (or uptalked to) by a Valley Girl makes the press look even more trivial. Trump already tried the no-nonsense approach with Sarah Sanders and she got no respect from that pack of hyenas.

    • Replies: @Alden
  51. @Jane Plain

    I can’t say specifically, but look at all the licensing rules and regulations just to day-care a handful of toddlers. Now imagine the state also has an ideological grudge and the teacher’s union digs in to protect its turf. And you’re on your own, lacking the protective clout of some umbrella organization like an archdiocese

  52. George says:

    “female version of the Peter Pan syndrome”

    The author suggests it is a public school related issue.

    ‘perhaps as there is no longer the group peer pressure or affirmation from teachers? ‘

    Is this an issue in private and especially libertine Sudbury schools?

  53. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    The social atomization of today’s society is very unhealthy

    Right you are, but just try to do anything else and you’ll rapidly find that, with no kids and few adults in the neighborhood (and many of the people who remain report lone kids), and with rabidly hostile schools, there isn’t much choice in the matter.

    It’s been remarked in the “artificial reality” games that some people just port in and kill everything they see, and that this is is done in part because it is the simplest form of social interaction. The porting character does things that everybody he sees cares about and reacts to — he or she kills them. Something similar happens on unz.com whenever a troll posts.

    And that’s the result of the social atomization Walker mentions (https://www.unz.com/isteve/one-good-effect-of-lockdowns/#comment-4004775). People who must act socially (because they’re human) do so in destructive ways because destruction is all they know (Do I sound like a Jewish mother here?)

    You can still get kid gangs in apartment complexes, but, well, to be brutal about it, “lie down with dogs and you get fleas”. Unfailing (rigid?) good manners, consistent enough to enable complex group interactions, is the result of considerable work by an entire group of parents and children. No work, no manners, no complex interaction, just simple interaction — kill everything if possible, otherwise troll.

    These are not happy days.

  54. @Jane Plain

    Jane, there are so many levels of government and so many different offices that can and will shut you down, that I ask you this: You try it. If you are in business for 1 full day, I will be amazed. Jim Christian has just one answer for you, but there are hundreds.

    This is why nothing good like this happens in this country. Government is a jealous god, and if you try anything without people in government heavily involved, you will not fail, but you will be failed and left gnashing whatever teeth you have left.

  55. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jane Plain

    Well, I home schooled. Three kids worth. Mixed results.

    First, if you have a two income home, forget home schooling.

    Second, if one parent wants to home school and the other doesn’t, don’t try. The kids will ally with the parent who doesn’t want to home school in order to avoid unpleasant learning. Much learning is unpleasant, so the kid will be handicapped.

    Third, kids can’t do what adults can do. See the Piaget stages: https://www.verywellmind.com/piagets-stages-of-cognitive-development-2795457 and https://www.simplypsychology.org/formal-operational.html . Note that the operational phase, “the ability to think in an abstract manner by manipulating ideas in their head, without any dependence on concrete manipulation ” starts at about age 12. My kids, 2 of them, were late awarded PSAT semi-finalist scholarships, so they started a bit before age 12, but not that much. The remaining kid went into Psychology and got a PhD, but to this day is immune to abstractions.
    So the kids don’t know how you think, and you don’t know how they think. That makes things difficult. Often, the kids don’t know why you are teaching them things, and at times refuse to learn these things. That can cripple the kids later.
    If you’re going to homeschool, look at Piaget’s stages and consider how you’re going to teach the kids at different ages. You’ll have to test to estimate the kid’s stages.

    Fourth, remember that in humans male and female brains are quite different. Very roughly, one entire lobe of men’s/ boy’s brains is devoted to abstractions — plausibly an adaptation to hunting and he need to out-think the animals — and only one lobe devoted to socialization / language. Women/girls devote both lobes to socialization / language, and (a) can think circles around men in socialization / language, but (b) handle abstractions as though they were socialization / language problems, to be solved by consensus building. In consequence, girls want and need more workshops in socialization that do boys. The “abstraction” lobe doesn’t work so well in boys before age 12, either, so let abstraction build in boys by giving things to work with and telling stories about doing things. The general rule is to teach music, arithmetic, simple tool use, and so on during the “pre-operational” phase, 2 years to 12 years or so for boys and girls, and supplement the girls’ lives with social exercises (including what constitutes good manners). Again, “if you lay down with dogs you (and your kids) get fleas”, and avoiding the dogs socially can be difficult). If you’re a woman, you might want to get a man to teach boys abstract thinking (finding such a person can be difficult), as boys don’t solve abstract problems with the methods that girls and women use.

    Fifth, you actually might not know enough to teach the kids. This is a non-starter, since the teachers usually know less than you do, except perhaps about being nasty and duplicitous. Fine people otherwise, of course.

    So, all in all home schooling is a project that is very difficult, takes years, and may or may not succeed. Small wonder that most people avoid it. OTH, public school will tend to produce adults that can’t successfully form families, which is a very bad outcome — ends your genetic line, and it’ painful to watch. I’d suggest ignoring what most families do and going with what you can do. Try HSLDA (https://hslda.org/) for cover from State authorities. You have to attend a church regularly to get HSLDA cover. If you can find a decent church (not easy) that can help a lot with socialization exercises for the girls. Pay attention to what the girls say about the local church; if they reject it, for example, the social exercises will fail and trouble will ensue.

    • Thanks: Gabe Ruth
    • Replies: @Anonymousse
  56. It’s a time to learn lots of little skills without being distracted by sex

    This is wrong. Children normally have sex with their peers if unhindered. Children have erotic feelings. Childhood is not a precursory period only fit for study work as you seem to believe.

  57. JimDandy says:
    @Anonymous

    Wow. If Patrick Bateman from American Psycho was coming up today, he’d be a trans woman.

  58. Anon[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder

    Private schooling is what should be illegal. The children of the rich should be MADE to sit in class between D’quan and Laqueesha. We will see how much they want to be a minority then.

    If we dont stop nonsense like this Elizabeth Bartholet promotes, we are going to wind up in a country that nobody feels patriotic about and will be willing to fight for.

    • Replies: @Alden
  59. @Achmed E. Newman

    Parents should start their own schools, but have the gov’t pay for it? Is that what you’re advocating?

    I’d rather parents start their own schools in their own homes, and if another family says, “Can you teach my kid too?” then that should be just fine. Or if a church will share its space during the week, why not let parents run a little school there? Insurance is the big hurdle right now.

    Fundamentally, parents should be footing the bill for their children’s education. Unless that happens, most of them won’t care a bit about what occurs during the school day.

    Homeschooling can be done on the cheap, but since the state of CA now hands out 5k/year per student to people who homeschool through the charters, it’s become a way for parents to spend $$.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  60. @inertial

    Young teen boys are predators with no brains. They make awful comments to girls and to each other constantly. The porn and filth that saturates our society is only making it worse. Grades 7-9 should be obliterated from the face of the earth.

    • Replies: @Dissident
  61. @Wilkey

    When we began homeschooling (many years ago), it took us about five minutes to realize that the “socialization” thing was a big load of crap.

    Kids do better being around functioning adults.

    Public schools expose kids to all sorts of negative influences (especially dysfunctional adults) and communicable diseases.

    And the education sucks, too.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  62. anon[294] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    So what about boys being boys?

    Inherently evil. Needs drugs as soon as possible, along with hours of sitting very still being lectured to by a woman.

    Ask any feminist.

  63. Jesse says:

    Trans is a malignant eugenics trend. You take young people who are showing signs of emotional distress or mental illness, or who might become homosexual later in life, and you take them out of the gene pool. (The latter is why so many religious types are hurling themselves under the bandwagon.) And you get past all the associations by convincing them, their families and your own foot soldiers that it’s the compassionate route (and not, say, structural changes or even mental health care).

    One thing the right has to contend with (but won’t, obviously) is that many of these girls are horrified at the thought of becoming women for very good reasons. Solving those reasons would do a lot more good than crowing about evolution. An actual, effective war on p*rn would be a fantastic start.

  64. @Jane Plain

    The laws are different in each state. Here is a Federal site with various state regulations listed. The PDFs are easy to read charts.

    https://www2.ed.gov/about/inits/ed/non-public-education/regulation-map/index.html

  65. @JohnnyWalker123

    Good comment. The way of life that has evolved due to technological innovation these last 30 years has deprived us of survival skills that will be badly needed when a SHTF scenario inevitably occurs.

  66. @Keith Richards's secret account

    Yeah, but how did scandalizing her parents get to be so many girls’ goal?

  67. anon[185] • Disclaimer says:

    Today’s lockdown economy dictates that, in a few years, many of them will be transitioning to the oldest profession.

  68. @panimperium

    Creeper detected. Go perve somewhere else.

    • Replies: @RandoSockPuppet
  69. @stillCARealist

    Parents should start their own schools, but have the gov’t pay for it? Is that what you’re advocating?

    Hell, no! (sorry, but where did I say that?)

    I would neither expect the government to pay nor WANT them to pay, as that would just mean the usual strings would be attached, including the complete Globohomo agenda (I kinda like that term – thanks, whomever!)

    I agree completely with your comment, though CA-Realist. That’s exactly what would probably be already happening minus 2 things: The Big Ed establishment blocking all moves and, for now, the parent’s hysteria, or whatever’s left of that, about Season 2 of the COVID-one-niner Infotainment.

    PS: Insurance is one thing, but rules will come down faster than you can comply or try to fight them. You know they will fight this whole thing hard.

  70. @Ganderson

    Teachers in Fairfax County VA recently said they are not going back.

    https://www.joannejacobs.com/2020/06/teachers-we-wont-go-to-school/

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  71. Muggles says:

    Interesting that this lockdown effect on girls deciding not to become “boys” in appearance or superficial identification doesn’t seem to have happened, or isn’t reported, on the male to female mode.

    Of course most young boys don’t want to identify as girls unless they are actually in that psychological head space, as trans or somewhat close. Boys who might be wary of girls for reasons of immaturity or some kind of fear rarely decide to start wearing dresses instead.

    And young gay males rarely seem to be into actual drag. That comes later.

    Some feminists might argue that it’s all a “power” thing, with girls wanting “male power” whereas boys not wanting inferior “woman power.” But that is too pat. Young people aren’t into the entire Leftist “power dynamic” that is now fueled by the Comrades. Few outright Lesbians seem to be interested in the power dynamic matter, though some take steroids and get butch, aggressive. Few become pipefitters or loggers, however.

    This whole girls “becoming boys” thing is probably just the result of a kind of mother rejection most adolescent girls go through. Lots of acting out on that. And since nearly all primary school teachers are women, hence surrogate mamas, you have to wonder if some of this is directed at the teachers. Once no longer in school, those mamas are gone. Peer pressure and dealing with pubescent males is probably the main driver of the non-binary girl behavior. Being butch at home wins you no points.

    • Agree: starthorn
  72. Ian Smith says:

    Charlize Theron did the ultimate virtue signal: adopted an African child AND got him to be trans!

    I guess the lingering trauma of seeing her mother shoot her father and the bitterness of hitting the wall without kids did a number on her!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6938233/Charlize-Theron-child-thought-boy-girl.html

  73. “DD”?

    It’s getting harder and harder to read things. There’s so much jargon and neologisms sprouting like weeds within sentence fragments.

  74. @Anonymous

    My experience is completely unlike yours. I won’t go through all my objections individually though, it’s easier to list what little we’d agree about.

    Someone in your family subverting the whole project IS a recipe for disaster. Seems like a marital problem rather than a homeschool specific issue.

    I definitely wouldn’t generalize your issues though and try to warn people off what is (for most) a superior alternative. If you’ve been around other homeschool families and public school families I expect you realize this. There’s a night and day difference in the typical kid.

    Last, anyone who regularly reads this website is more than intelligent enough to teach their own children up to a high school level if they are determined to do so. Public school teachers tend to be dim bulbs… even overlooking their poisonous ideological commitments. There will be some areas to brush up on as you go, but for people who (presumably) enjoy education as such, this is a feature not a bug.

  75. @panimperium

    Thanks for the valuable input NAMBLA.

  76. @Andrew M

    What part of the current public school package do you like exactly?

  77. Alden says:
    @Anon

    One of the best comments I’ve ever read on UNZ. Until about 1900, even though free compulsory public school was the norm, most kids went to work at 12 or so and were socialized by their adult employees and vocational trainers, not by rowdy peers.

    And for much of history lots of kids went to work at 8 or 10. We can’t do that nowadays as child labor would just increase the reserve army of the unemployed and we’d all be on welfare.

    I read a book, The Making of the American Teenager. It was mostly about the 1890-1920 creation of the American high school with the sports endless clubs homework proms and dances. Gist of the book was that the American high school was designed to intrude high school into the home. It was more than civilizing the immigrants and native White trash. It was forcing the high school into the home.

    It’s strange. Adult men predominate in sex change into women. But in teens it seems the schools are pressuring girls. Maybe the pressure to turn girls into lesbians failed. So the public schools turned to pressuring girls to think they’re boys.

    You can look up your state’s mandatory school curriculum. Basically 4 academic classes a day. 20 minutes for each class first grade to 50 minutes classes for high school. The rest is just activities, clubs, lunch recess and brainwashing.

    80 minutes or 1 hour and 20 minutes a day for first grade to 200 minutes 3 hours 20 minutes a day for high schoolers. Of course some kids love school. It’s wonderful to know your kids are happy at school. But does that make up for the brainwashing?

  78. Alden says:
    @Keith Richards's secret account

    California already has some kind of homeschooling grant. Unfortunately a few years ago parents who received the grant were complied to use the Common Core Curriculum. In addition to the brainwashing, common core math is so contorted complicated and weird it’s difficult to learn.

    I have no idea how much the money is for homeschooling. Great thing about home schooling is that the kids can go to community college at 16 in some states.

  79. Alden says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    One thing anyone involved in the youth criminal justice system can tell you is that they always start off in groups of kids they met at school. Black boys are the absolute worst. Probably in the old days when they quit school at ten and lived on isolated farms and worked with parents all day they didn’t have time to form those feral packs and roam around town after school.

  80. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    For all your old church lady fuddy duddy disapproval, you sure seem to watch her a lot. Kellyanne Conway is middle aged but still glam. It’s a Trump thing, glamorous women as good or better at their jobs as the frumpy dyke democrat women.

  81. Alden says:

    There’s an excellent home school the Calvert School Baltimore MD. calverteducation.com.

    It’s more than 100 years old. It began in the 19th century for married couples who went to China as Protestant missionaries. Became very popular on the isolated farms in Australia. Then reorganized in 1910
    Used to send out cartons with all the books paper even crayons pens pencils and step by step lesson plans for the parents to follow Now it’s online.

    It’s not a public school curriculum. It’s the same curriculum as the ultra prestigePrivate Calvert school in Maryland.

    If you’re serious it’s worth looking into.

    Online math is phenomenally better than the books and teachers st the whiteboard It’s just the formulas instead of a lot of complicated whatever.

    If my kids loved the sports team and activities I wouldn’t home school them.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  82. Alden says:
    @Anon

    But the children of the rich won’t go to public school with Shitavious and LaTrina if private schools are made illegal. They’ll just go to all White public schools in their ultra wealthy suburbs.

    Or boarding school in other countries. Some of the Seattle area Microsoft upper level execs send their kids to Canadien boarding schools because they can bring their horses and keep up with their riding, difficult with the commuting involved in staying at home and driving back and forth to school, home and stables.

  83. Truth says:
    @Anonymous

    Press Secretary in her tight sundress showing lots of skin at the podium

    His tight dress, Bro.

  84. @Ganderson

    Another thing that is coming in the fall when and if the schools open is a huge heaping helping of anti-racism education.

    It was bad enough already, but you make a good point, and I’m afraid you will be proven right. At the workplace, they are handing down some of this BS once in a while. I’m already greatly sick of it but feel lucky to be in a position where I don’t have to act like I care.

    It’s time for Americans to teach their kids the truth on things over this basically 6 month vacation they will have had, assuming anyone is going back to school in Aug/Sept. That’s no sure thing, what with this Kung Flu Infotainment, Season 2.

    I knew you were about done, Mr. Ganderson, but this must have been a weird way to retire. I hope that you (can) enjoy your retirement, the way things are going. Will you stay in New England?

    • Replies: @Ganderson
  85. Alden says:
    @Known Fact

    Valley Girl talk is soo 1980s. The LA teen girls in the SF Valley are all Persian Armenian Mexican Afghani Indian Arab Israeli Russian etc now days.

  86. @No Recent Commenting History

    I still remember walking up on two tards doing something they really shouldn’t have been doing while I was in elementary school.

    I don’t remember exactly what grade I was in or how old they were.

    l do still remember the horror on the teacher’s face when I flagged down one to in form maybe they should keep a closer eye on their tards. It wasn’t the first time it had happened.

    Oh the joys of public schools.

  87. @Jake

    the children of the vast majority of BLACKS and Jews need to be avoided.

    ALL of those need to be avoided.

  88. @Joseph Doaks

    Teenage rebellion, no big deal. If her parents were stricter, she wouldn’t need to go to such lengths to get a reaction.

  89. @Alden

    How did they check curriculum compliance?

  90. @Alden

    In California, a high school kid can be “concurrently enrolled” in JC; limit ~11 credit hours per semester.

    My kids began concurrent homeschool/JC when they were 14 (AA @17).

    @KeithRichard

    I never heard knew that CA homeschools qualify for state funds. With/out strings attached, we’d reject the money on principle.

    Regarding the strings, homeschooling is all about independence (e.g. from some politically determined curriculum). A government-approved curriculum would defeat that purpose.

  91. Ganderson says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    It was a weird way to go out- fewgoodbyesn etc. We’ll stay where we are for mow, the Frau still works, and the boys are spread out all over. Might move to MN .lake country.

  92. PTT says: • Website

    I used to think that ROGD will be looked upon by future generations as the baddest, barmiest madness of our time:
    https://posttenuretourettes.wordpress.com/2018/09/06/ptt-crowdsourcing-effort/

    But that was in the relatively sane period of 2 years ago, before much badder madness came along…

  93. @Abolish_public_education

    Not everyone is in a financial position to be able to afford a house near their job, their family, or their hometown, *and* homeschool their kids; a strings-attached homeschooling grant is therefore nothing to sneeze at, especially if you can just lie to the gov’t about what you’re teaching. I was hoping the other fella was going to explain how they check one’s homeschooling is curriculum-compliant: perhaps there’s a way to game the system, especially if you team up with your fellow homeschoolers. (Which you probably already are, to some degree.) (Pun intended.)

  94. @Jim Don Bob

    Teachers “fear for their lives, the lives of their students and the lives of their families,” said Tina Williams, president of the Fairfax County Federation of Teachers.

    Sounds like Anacostia on an average day.

    Teachers in Fairfax County VA recently said they are not going back.

    Part of the original county was given to DC in 1789, and returned to the Commonwealth, but not Fairfax, in the 1840s. They’re not going back, either!

    Fairfax, by the way, means “blond”.

  95. @Alden

    There’s an excellent home school the Calvert School Baltimore MD.
    It’s more than 100 years old. It began in the 19th century for married couples who went to China as Protestant missionaries.

    Huh? In most contexts, Calvert = Catholic, Calvin = Protestant.

  96. Dissident says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    >[risque_image.jpg]
    Perhaps you forgot the courtesy of making use of the MORE! tag.

  97. Dissident says:
    @stillCARealist

    Young teen boys are predators with no brains. They make awful comments to girls and to each other constantly. The porn and filth that saturates our society is only making it worse. Grades 7-9 should be obliterated from the face of the earth.

    I’m having trouble figuring-out what to make of this comment. I find the first two sentences ambiguous as to whether they were intended seriously or not; the statement in the third sentence too manifestly true to plausibly have been intended as satire; and the final sentence difficult to parse as anything other than parody. Adding to my confusion is that your posting handle is decidedly not one that I associate with troll-like behavior.

    Incidentally, concerning that third sentence,

    The porn and filth that saturates our society is only making it worse.

    let me note that in all the squawking about “sexism”, “misogyny”, “a war on women”, and “toxic masculinity” that we’ve been subjected-to in recent years, I can recall finding at most minimal culpability ascribed-to, or even mere mention made of, the unprecedented saturation with smut that the wonders of technology have blessed us with.

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