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Old, Weird Eurasia: Skeleton Lake in the Himalayas and the Fishmen of the Danube
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Two stories of Old, Weird Eurasia, both featuring the tireless paleogeneticist David Reich.

From the New York Times:

The Mystery of the Himalayas’ Skeleton Lake Just Got Weirder

Every summer, hundreds of ancient bones emerge from the ice. A new genetic study helps explain how they got there.

Roopkund Lake, in the Indian Himalayas, is frozen for much of the year. But in warmer months it delivers a macabre performance, earning the nickname

By Robin George Andrews, Published Aug. 20, 2019
Updated Aug. 21, 2019, 6:40 a.m. ET

… Genetic analysis has helped make some sense of the jumble of bones. The researchers, led in part by Niraj Rai, an expert in ancient DNA at the Birbal Sahni Institute of Palaeosciences in India, and David Reich, a geneticist at Harvard University, extracted DNA from the remains of dozens of skeletal samples, and managed to identify 23 males and 15 females.

Based on populations living today, these individuals fit into three distinct genetic groups. Twenty-three, including males and females, had ancestries typical of contemporary South Asians; their remains were deposited at the lake between the 7th and 10th centuries, and not all at once. Some skeletons were more ancient than others, suggesting that many were interred at the lake lifetimes apart.

Human skeletal remains at Roopkund lake. A new genetic study partially identified some of the individuals: young and old, some interred long before others, none of them related.CreditHimadri Sinha Roy
Then, perhaps 1,000 years or so later, sometime between the 17th and 20th centuries, two more genetic groups suddenly appeared within the lake: one individual of East Asian-related ancestry and, curiously, 14 people of eastern Mediterranean ancestry.

Also from the NYT:

An Archaeological Puzzle on the Danube

Unique sculptures date from the historical moment when two peoples and two cultures met on the banks of a section of the river, now known as the Iron Gates.

By James Gorman, Published Aug. 20, 2019

LEPENSKI VIR, Serbia — The faces are haunting. About 8,000 years ago, over a period of perhaps 200 years, artists that lived in this settlement on the banks of the Danube carved about 100 sandstone boulders with faces and abstract designs. The faces are simple, with wide round eyes, a stylized nose and down-turned open mouths. They do not look happy. …

Lepenski Vir offers a snapshot of that process at its very beginning. David Reich, an expert in ancient human DNA and human migration at Harvard, has drawn DNA from bones at Lepenski Vir. “It is a mother lode of material,” Dr. Reich said.

In a recent paper, he and other scientists reported new findings about the “genomic history of southeastern Europe.” As part of that study they drew DNA from four individuals at Lepenski Vir. Two were identifiable as Near Eastern farmers. And studies of the chemistry of their bones show that they had not grown up at Lepenski Vir, but were migrants from elsewhere. Another had a mixed hunter-gatherer/farmer heritage and had eaten a diet of fish. Another had hunter-gatherer heritage.

The dating of the skeletons showed a range. The one with mixed heritage was from 6070 B.C.E., or about 8,000 years ago. The farmers were dated as 6200-5600 B.C.E. And the hunter-gatherer probably earlier than the others.

By the way, the Serbs have built what looks to be an elegant museum at the archaeological site, or actually higher up the hillside from the real site, which, like Abu Simbel in Egypt, was flooded by a reservoir in the 1960s.

As I’ve mentioned, a few times recently, I’m starting to see more and more Balkan names (e.g., ending in -ic) showing up under accounts of good news (e.g., sports victories or tourism destinations) rather than bad news, as in the 1990s. I wish the peoples of the Balkans continued progress.

 
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  1. “I wish the peoples of the Balkans continued progress.”

    As long as they stay put.

  2. As I’ve mentioned, a few times recently, I’m starting to see more and more Balkan names (e.g., ending in -ic) showing up under accounts of good news (e.g., sports victories or tourism destinations) rather than bad news, as in the 1990s. I wish the peoples of the Balkans continued progress.

    Getting people sorted into their correct nations is a good thing.

    That was done with the Germans and some other central Europeans after the War, and it is one of the reasons things have been more peaceable. But it didn’t happen in the Balkans … and so unsurprisingly, the next big war was sorting out that mess.

    Of course, this simple, sane idea “separate peoples in separate nations” is xenophobic, racist, anti-Semitic, blah, blah, blah…

    … so now Europe’s nations are filling with even wildly more disparate peoples, from completely different civilizations and races. I’m sure that’s going to end well.

    • Agree: Cowboy shaw
    • Replies: @Kibernetika
    , @Thea
    , @Jack D
  3. In addition to a Skeleton Lake, Russia can boast a Road of Bones. The Kalyma Highway linking Yakutsk to Magadan is paved in part with the bodies of the men who died building it. In the 20th century.

    The permafrost was too hard for regular burials.

  4. Honestly, wonder when we are going to find those hollow earth tunnels that closed up during the last ice age.

    • Replies: @slumber_j
  5. In his book, Reich talks about India’s extreme political touchiness toward his research.

  6. @International Jew

    Is it for the same reason feather Indians get touchy about genetic research?

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  7. @AnotherDad

    Getting people sorted into their correct nations is a good thing.

    That was done with the Germans and some other central Europeans after the War, and it is one of the reasons things have been more peaceable.

    We need to discuss this over some good German beer, although there may be some polite disagreement 😉

  8. We’re all Balkanized now.

  9. @Redneck farmer

    Is it for the same reason feather Indians get touchy about genetic research?

    No, the ascendant (and ruling) Hindu nationalist groups in India have ersatz theories on the origins of Indian society, in which Muslim invaders were the first external people to shatter the peace of an idyllic civilization that has existed in India since the dawn of time.

    DNA analysis points to external origins for all of India’s human population contradicts that view and is highly unwelcome.

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @Jack D
    , @BB753
  10. Lot says:
    @PiltdownMan

    “in which Muslim invaders were the first external people to shatter the peace of an idyllic civilization”

    The alleged oldest Indians are the scheduled tribes, 8% of the population. They mostly look like normal central/southern Indians to me, with mostly caucasoid faces and straight hair.

    The term also includes insular negritos and mongoloids in the northeastern fringe, but there are not many of either group.

  11. … and, curiously, 14 people of eastern Mediterranean ancestry.

    The version I read suggested they were Greeks, but I doubt that, as there was no evidence of a Greek Restaurant nearby.

  12. Well, Hindus have been heading off for millennia into forests and mountains for the end stage of life. It’s the done thing, according to their scriptures.

    Rudyard Kipling wrote a short story about it in the Second Jungle Book—The Miracle of Purun Bhagat albeit with a twist to it.

    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/rg_purun1.htm

    The high Himalayas are seen as the abode of Shiva, and Mount Kailash in Tibet, in particular, is where he is supposed to reside. Lake Mansarovar, at its base, is considered to be the ultimate Hindu pilgrimage destination.

    The high mountain lakes and headwaters of the Gangetic rivers are venerated. As with baptism in Judaeo-Christian traditions, taking a dip is considered to be spiritually purifying, a moral and spiritual re-birth of sorts.

    It’s natural to speculate and wonder whether there was some ancient tradition of trekking up to this lake and ending one’s years in it. Of course, that wouldn’t explain the children’s bones, nor the Mediterranean dead.

    Mt. Kailash and Lake Mansarovar.

  13. AlexT says:

    Thanks for the good wishes Steve. Btw if you ever get the chance to visit, the museums here are very underrated. I have a feeling you would enjoy them.

  14. Sean says:

    Balkan names (e.g., ending in -ic) showing up under accounts of good news (e.g., sports victories or tourism destinations

    It’s because they are tall. Must be the local milk. Some authorities considered the (tall) Bell Beakers to be Dinarids, which the Serbs certainly are.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/plague-stone-age-farmers-europe-sweden-archaeology-neolithic-a8670986.html
    A new type of plague extracted from 5,000 year-old human remains may have played a role in wiping out Europe’s Stone Age farmers. … Massive migrations from the Eurasian steppes around this time led to a complete replacement of the Neolithic farming communities that had previous inhabited the continent.
    However, the new strain discovered in Sweden appears to have emerged around 5,700 years ago, before these migrations began. This suggests the disease swept the continent earlier, after evolving in the cramped confines of the “mega settlements” of 10,000-20,000 inhabitants that were being built at this time.”These mega-settlements were the largest settlements in Europe at that time, 10 times bigger than anything else,” said Dr Simon Rasmussen, a genomics researcher at the Technical University of Denmark . “We think our data fit. If plague evolved in the mega-settlements, then when people started dying from it, the settlements would have been abandoned and destroyed.”

    “They had people, animals, and stored food close together, and, likely, very poor sanitation. That’s the textbook example of what you need to evolve new pathogens.”

  15. I can recognize a “Romanian” journalist by his reaction to the mere mention of Tărtăria (not Tartaria) and Turdaș. Just like Jews think they can rub on the old glory of the Egyptians, and thus make up for the fact that their history is surprisingly devoid of material artifacts, Romanians think that they can trace themselves down 7 millennia to the pre-Dacian populations who left some of the oldest writings in these places.

    Since we don’t know what language the Dacians spoke, some think they might have been at least part-time Latin speakers. This supports an even better connection between today Romanians and the people of ancient Tărtăria.

    Of course, a “Romanian” who is mostly a Russian immigrant (that is, a Jew) is triggered by the thought that Romanian-Roman-Dacian history goes back long before the Cult of Circumcision.

    @Seam: Simona Halep is one head shorter than the US bn sisters, but she is comparable on the field. Few sports are purely physical these days.

    Relating to my first paragraph, Simona is from an Aromanian family. That is, she is from a lineage of Latin-speaking Yugoslavian lands inhabitants. Jews are always triggered when they hear that Latin speakers were here since the Empire, without interruption, in contrast to their locust-like movement.

    Conversely, some of the most effective Iron Guard members were Aromanians.

    • Replies: @Old Jew
    , @Jack D
  16. slumber_j says:
    @Jack Henson

    Honestly, wonder when we are going to find those hollow earth tunnels that closed up during the last ice age.

    They’re at the poles, apparently, so I guess we’ll need more warming:

    https://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2926

  17. Jack D says:
    @PiltdownMan

    DNA analysis points to external origins for all of India’s human population

    Isn’t that true of everywhere on the planet except for Africa?

    A lot of people (e.g. American Indians) have origin stories to the effect that “we’ve always been here” (reasonable enough for a tribal people since the actual migration is lost in prehistory and beyond tribal memory). The English name for a lot of tribes is often the local word for “people” or “humans” because the explorers would ask the tribesmen “what do you call yourself”? Duh.

    Most intelligent people understand the difference between creation myths and scientific truth. But, when their pecuniary or national interest coincides better with the myth, they may choose to “believe” the myth rather than the science. People tend to believe things that favor their own interests and disbelieve things that don’t, regardless of what “science” says. A lot of what was once believed to be “science” has turned out to be garbage anyway and we can see in our own time that many scientists are often influenced by the politics and fads of the day.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  18. Anon[147] • Disclaimer says:

    Wikipedia suggest this was just a one off mass die off of an unfortunate expedition that used porters, thus the two population groups. It’s in remote territory near Nanda Devi, and is several hundred miles east of the normal sea-to-land Indian Ocean version of the Silk Road route, which takes a northwest route over the Himalayas in Pakistan. There is local folklore about it.

  19. @Jack D

    I spent a bit of time on Native American online forums. I have also talked to an Indian who was the token Indian on a bunch of committees that required someone from his reservation. He was one of the few college graduates on his reservation, and so he would up on ALL the committees.

    A few things:

    1. Indians (feathers, not dots) often claim to have been around longer than the scientists think they were. Being a chemist myself, it is hard for me to call what some of these folks do science, but they do the best they can with what they have. The scientists say oral histories are only good back to x number of years, therefore the Indians must be wrong. That is not necessarily true. Native Hawaiians had an oral history so intricate that they memorized the entire 1000 year history of the Hawaiian Islands from the time the first Polynesians arrived to past the era of Captain Cook. As in, historians know down within a few years what this or that king did in the past. Aussie aborigines, not the most sophisticated people on the planet, can describe in detail places that were flooded after the last Ice Age.
    The main scientific theory is that Indians have been in the New World for 12-13,000 years. However, a few artifacts have been found which show people in the New World on considerably earlier dates.
    One Indian told me that his tribe had legends which described life in North America before, during and after the Ice Age. According to legend, his tribe was in the north, then had to move south to escape the glaciers. After the glaciers melted, they went back north.

    One thing which bothered the heck out of me was the fiasco with Kennewick Man. That bothered me because I knew both scientists and Indians in that area. If the scientists and the Indians I knew had worked on the issue, it could’ve been solved. Trouble was, the wrong people got involved, and their egos took over.

    The Indian I knew who was on just about every committee was from one of the tribes that laid claim to Kennewick Man. Suppose the scientists, upon discovering Kenniwick man, had thrown together a committee of scientists and Indians. This guy would’ve been on the committee, as would his counterparts from other tribes. This small cadre of Indians in that area who work with scientists developed an excellent working relationship with the scientists.
    Instead, the scientists decided the Indians had no claim to Kennewick Man. The scientists said that the original Indians of which Kennewick Man was one of had moved away a few thousand years ago; that the area was empty of human life for a few thousand years; and that a different group of Indians moved in much later. Of course that was offensive to the Indians. Instead of working with a small cadre of Indians who actually liked scientists, they were dealing with a larger group of Indians whom the scientists had gravely insulted. The results were not pretty. I think the case went all the way to the Supreme Court, which ruled in favor of the Indians, and the scientists could never even look at Kennewick Man ever again.

    2. A few decades ago a group of scientists claimed the Bowhead Whale population was endangered. The Eskimos in what was then called Barrow, Alaska, were permitted by treaty to hunt 20 whales per year, at about 20 tons of meat per whale. We are talking about 400 tons, 800,000 pounds, of meat per year. As in the bulk of the food for their diet. (A large bowhead whale can weigh over 100 short tons, so 20 tons of meat in a whale is not an unreasonable estimate. A small bowhead may be 85-90 tons).
    At one point in the 1970s, scientists convinced the feds to stop the whale hunt. That meant the federal government had to fly 400 tons of meat that year to Barrow, Alaska, on the taxpayer dime. The Eskimos hated the alternative meat, it was expensive, and a bit dangerous for the pilots. Nobody was happy.
    The Eskimos said they had been keeping track of the whale population for centuries, and that the whales were plentiful. Finally, the scientists looked at their data, and the Eskimos’ data, and realized the Eskimos were correct. Ever since then the scientists have wisely worked with the Eskimos to monitor the whale population.

    The moral of the story?

    Smart scientists take the data of the local people into consideration.
    For example, scientists studying the climate in Wisconsin will look at farmers’ records back to the 1800s, as well as the records of the rowing coaches at the U of Wisconsin. It turns out in the 1800s, the rowing team at Wisconsin came up with a definition of when the local lake (Lake Mendota) had frozen over. It was frozen over when the rowers could not take a boat from the boathouse to the spot where they would purchase beer. (It is hard to underestimate the importance of beer in Wisconsin. See Laverne and Shirley for more data.) According to the rowing coaches, Lake Mendota is open for beer runs 1 month longer each year than in the late 1800s.

  20. Jack D says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    It’s always good to approach your work with humility. Unfortunately, a lot of Western scientists are arrogant. They are arrogant in their politics and in their approach to their own work.

    Scientific theories don’t sell themselves – they have to be sold like any other product. So they people who have the most success are often the biggest blowhards/salesmen, not the best scientists.

    One characteristic of a salesman is that he is not objective about his product – HIS product is the best, the stuff that the other guys are selling is garbage. This may help to “move the metal” off the showroom floor but it’s not a good way to do science. But this is often how it is done.

    If you have any exposure to science in an area where the science is not really “settled”, it’s hilarious sometimes that you’ll talk to Scientist A who is this arrogant guy who say that his theory is absolutely without a doubt true and X is so, and then you’ll talk to Scientist B and he will, with equal vehemence and tone of certainty, argue the exact opposite. One of these guys is completely, totally wrong, but which one?

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @E e
  21. If you have any exposure to science in an area where the science is not really “settled”, it’s hilarious sometimes that you’ll talk to Scientist A who is this arrogant guy who say that his theory is absolutely without a doubt true and X is so, and then you’ll talk to Scientist B and he will, with equal vehemence and tone of certainty, argue the exact opposite. One of these guys is completely, totally wrong, but which one?

    Oh, lordy, I have seen this. In one case I got into the tail end of a dispute which had supposedly been settled, and then they had better computers, so the people on the losing side started saying it wasn’t settled. This was the non-classical carbocation controversy, which lasted from the 1950s until the 1990s., My Ph.D, research was on calculations of carbocations, and the calculations showed the non-classical cations are being more stable than the classical cations in some surprising situations. Of course, that may just be that back in the early to mid 1990s, the best calculations I could do were MP2/6-31** basis sets using the Gaussian 92 software, and if I had done them with the superior MP4/6-31** basis set the results might have been different. In any case, all the experimental evidence, and even the very best basis sets, showed the non-classical ions (5 bonds to Carbon, rather than 3 bonds as in the classical cations) as existing in certain situations. The point was, that carbon could use d-orbitals, instead of just s and p orbitals.

    The guy who wrote the Gaussian software got a Nobel Prize for it, and he deserved it.

    Later, as a professor, I did some similar calculations with Boron and Aluminum. At one point my students rushed to me with the news that a Nobel laureate had published similar stuff to what I was doing in the Journal of the American Chemical Society. That convinced these upper level undergraduates that I was really having them do real research, rather than busy work. They figured if they were competing with a guy who already had a Nobel Prize, it actually meant something.

    There was one case in which two researchers, one who believed in non-classical carbocations and one who didn’t, decided to do a joint research project. The idea was this project would settle once and for all whether non-classical carbocations actually existed. They did the research together. They looked at the results. One professor said it proved beyond a doubt that non-classical carbocations were real. The other professor said it proved beyond a doubt that non-classical carbocations did not exist. They worked out an absolutely stunning arrangement with the Journal of the American Chemical Society so that they published back-to-back papers with the same experimental section but different conclusions. It was bizarre almost beyond belief.

    I knew a fellow, the late great Michael Dewar, who seemed to barely miss out on the Nobel Prize at least once, possibly twice. The second time was right after he died, so was no longer eligible.

    Anyway, a long time ago Dewar was working with a fellow Zimmerman on determining reactions using molecular orbital theory. At the same time, a post-doctoral fellow then at Harvard, Roald Hoffman, was working with a famous professor who already had a Nobel Prize, Bob Woodward.

    So, there were these two competing ways of looking at orbital symmetry in organic reactions: the Woodward-Hoffman approach, and the Dewar-Zimmerman approach. The Woodward-Hoffman approach was the more elegant approach. Woodward and Hoffman wrote a book together, The Conservation of Orbital Symmetry. I had a very high level class once, taught by a former student of Zimmerman, in which the Woodward-Hoffman book was used as a text book. Quite elegant.

    The story going around was that Hoffman did all the work, and Woodward just used his big name to get on the bandwagon. I heard directly from Roald Hoffman years later that Woodward in fact was instrumental to the Woodward-Hoffman theory, and even went so far as to pick out the color scheme for illustrations in their book.

    In any case, when the Nobel Prize Committee met, they decided that Hoffman deserved a Nobel Prize, but not Woodward. This may be because Woodward already had a Nobel Prize in Chemistry.
    Dewar and Zimmerman were hoping that the Prize would be divided among Hoffman, Dewar and Zimmerman. Instead, the Prize was divided between Hoffman and a Japanese researcher named Fukui who came up with the Frontier Orbital Theory.

    Years later, right after I had had a class which included the Woodward-Hoffman and Dewar-Zimmerman approaches, Dewar gave a talk at my school on Frontier Orbital Theory. Dewar absolutely ripped it to shreds. By that point I knew enough about the subject to at least follow the talk. The professor who had been Zimmerman’s former student said Dewar’s talk was brilliant.

    However, two things about Dewar:
    1. He loved to be an iconoclast. If every scientist said A, he said B just to be annoying,
    2. Dewar felt he had been cheated out of a Nobel Prize, and the Dewar and Zimmerman deserved the Nobel Prize, rather than Fukui.

    So, was Fukui right, or was Dewar right? I knew enough to follow the debate, but not enough to form a reasoned opinion.

  22. @Paleo Liberal

    One Indian told me that his tribe had legends which described life in North America before, during and after the Ice Age. According to legend, his tribe was in the north, then had to move south to escape the glaciers. After the glaciers melted, they went back north.

    There is a funny phenomenon that some anthropologists have encountered: Their own theories will come back at them as tribal lore. Some of the locals hear the theories, incorporate them into their legends, and pass them down. Next thing you know, members of the tribe are telling the new stories to new anthropologists.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  23. @Paleo Liberal

    Here is a fun fact that I am surprised Indians do not use.

    There were incontestably Indians thriving in the New World before there was even such a thing as a European.

    Wait for it . . .

    Because Europe was covered with a mile-thick ice sheet.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  24. Old Jew says:
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    Domnule Dacian,

    You have a very interesting post. I would like to know who is the “Romanian” journalist you are referring to, perhaps you commented to a post in another thread.

    There
    Concerning the surname Halep (Simona Halep tenis player), I thought it was a variant of Halip. A boy in my elementary school was Ion Halip.

    Also Pan. (Pantelimon) Halip (Halippa )signed Declaratia Unirii Basarabiei cu Romania in 1918 ca vice-presedinte.

    I wish I knew more about the etymology of this name.
    E popular la Aromani?

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
  25. @International Jew

    Reich busted their fantasy of being descendants of Aryans. He said all Indians today, both north and south, are completely mixed and have at best something like 2% Aryan ancestry if I remember correctly, though the northerners do have more middle eastern ancestry.

  26. Indians are now the largest group of illegals in the US after the Mexicans. The official figure is 630,000, but the actual number is probably twice that. They’ve caught on to the scam of hiring traffickers to help them cross the Mexican/Canadian border, then surrender to border agent and claim asylum.

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/08/22/india-has-more-than-630000-illegals-in-the-united-states/

    Type in “Microsoft tech support” on Google and you are bound to run into a bunch of Indian con artists with 800 numbers, pretending to be MS tech support, waiting to download a bunch of crap to your computer to help you “fix” stuff, and steal all your data and passwords etc.

    SF and Seattle are now swamped with Indian con artists a.k.a. “highly skilled”. And the wives they bring in, even the ones with the thickest accent, are busy running for office, turning America into the next socialist India, like this “best and brightest” in Seattle, brought in by her H1b husband and never left:

    Others like Sukheta Mehtu write books to tell us we were there so they have a right be here. Even though America had never colonized India, they are here to colonize us regardless.

  27. Thea says:
    @AnotherDad

    The forcible removal of Germans from Eastern Europe and relocation to Germany, such as it now is, may not be viewed as peaceful by them. Their former homes were once part of a different version of Germany .

  28. Svevlad says:

    A little fact about the archaeological sites in Serbia.

    The communists were hell-bent on destroying each and every single one. Since they were often around rivers, flooding would be enough. Now I’m not talking about coincidence forcing a dam to be built in a location that would result in a flood, this was literally them going out their way to maximize damage. This started all the way back in the 30s during the rule of king Alexander, but the commies really intensified.

    Only like 30% of Lepenski Vir was relocated, the rest is now destroyed. Quite literally probably one of the few settlements that showcase how hunter-gatherers interacted (and became) farmers, to be destroyed like that should probably result in a few executions.

    There was another case of some medieval fort getting blown up and flooded. Some archaeologist tried to stop it, was immediately pretty much unpersoned. The traitors are still running the show, this time as a colonial government to the highest bidder. Recently they flooded a 14th century monastery that had healing powers and such, didn’t even bother relocating. Memory holed nearly everywhere except in patriotic circles.

  29. Jack D says:
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    You say that as if you are proud of it. The Iron Guard were scum who made Nazis look good. After the war they made a deal to work as muscle for the Communists too, so they weren’t even principled thugs.

  30. Jack D says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Right – I doubt that prior to Western contact Indians even had any notion that there had ever BEEN an Ice Age. It’s OK for modern day tribal members to have Western theories because most of them are only slightly more Indian than Liz Warren.

  31. @Old Jew

    Halip is a common name in Suceava, at the northeastern border, where there is a gradient with Ukrainian Bukovina. There is an unusual number of family names starting on H, or even H+consonant, at the northern border. I would think they are Ukrainian in origin, and based on Russian / Proto-Slavic G+consonant names.

    I don’t think Halipa was Aromanian. Commonly, Aromanians are defined as the people who speak something like Romanian, but lived South of the Danube, at least until the 19th century, when the Greek, Bulgarian, Armenian ethnic revolutions, and the withdrawal of the Turks disrupted everything. Poor Pantelimon was from the Far East of Romania.

    But Simona Halep dates Aromanians, and speaks a bit of their dialect. Her family name has no bearing on that. She feels Aromanian. It’s my understanding that being Aromanian is more of a way of being brought up and of thinking, of trusting other Aromanians more than the rest of the world and of doing your best for the group – a bit like the Jews themselves. They don’t have a country only for them, so, when it comes to fighting a war, Aromanians will most likely be on the Romanian side. But, in peace time, they like to keep somewhat separate. Not at work, not at school, not in politics. But they do it where it is most important – in business and in family choices.

    Re. Jews that hate people who think no evil of Dacians, Dan Alexe, a RFE/RL employee, has taken to write a book called”Dacopatia”. I am not 100% certain than Dacians and Romans were related. In fact I am not even 10% certain. But there is no true evidence against this kinship of sorts. You don’t see the Roman chronicles explaining “we went to Dacia, where we found the local savages, who couldn’t make themselves understood”. People like Alexe never bother to prove anything. They just start from “anyone who thinks Dacians were bipedal is an anti-Western retard”.

  32. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad

    “Exchange of Population” sounds peaceful but millions died. It was anything but peaceful. If E. Europe was peaceful after the Germans (and few remaining Jews) were expelled, it was achieved at a very high price. E. Europe had not been mono-ethnic EVER so they were “restoring” it to an artificial monoethnic situation that had never even existed before.

  33. @Jack D

    The idea that the Guard switched sides is lazy, at best. I don’t know any Iron Guard mayor or village council member who kept his job after regime change. The Guard won 15% at the last elections they contested (480 thousand votes), and enjoyed 4 months as junior ally of a dictatorship – so there was no shortage of such people.

    The only people who survived regime change without damage were marginal cheerleaders, such as actors, or singers, who changed their propaganda tunes. Even in these cases, conversion was the exception, not the rule.

    Many of the survivors and their families are still in Spain, where they sought refuge, most often in December 1938 (when the King’s police started killing them) or February 1941 (when Antonescu ordered their killing). Yep, the “communist” Iron Guard was gone 5 months before Barbarossa. A few hundreds hid in Germany, and were allowed into Spain when they were captured by the Western allies.

    See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRGn2Ku0rMs . Pride of our nation, true volunteers in the fight against Communism (unlike the conscripts or de facto mercenaries sent by America). Martyrs of The Faith that get even my respect, although I am an atheist. Not allowed in their home country for 80 years.

  34. Old Jew says:
    @Jack D

    Corneliu Zelea Codreanu, the Leader of the Iron Guard was named Zelinski, same as the current president of Ukraine.

    After 1920 Romania doubled its territory. Many of the new residents such as the Rutenian Codreanu
    or the “Macedonian” Alexianu turned more vehemently “Romanian” than the original inhabitants.

    So, were the Iron Guard Macedonians, Motza and Marin that died in the Spanish Civil War fighting for Franco. Perhaps Mr. Dacian had them in mind.

    Alexianu was the governor of Bukovina that sent my grandparents and most of the Jews of Bukovina to the camps in Transnistria. The Reds executed him in 1946….. “Yemah Shemo!”

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
  35. Old Jew says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Mr. John Burns….

    You wrote:

    Danzig ist Deutsch.

    True, but

    Gdańsk jest Polski!

    • Replies: @Kibernetika
  36. JMcG says:
    @obwandiyag

    There’s been a couple of instances of 800,000 year old fossilized footprints being exposed on the English coastline these last few years. Sure, Homo Erectus most likely; but European Homo Erectus!

  37. Anonymous[292] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    People who go into cetology tend to be people who really like whales. People who worry a lot about the environment tend to become climate scientists. Many other examples. To such people there’s no such thing as sustainable whaling, or sustainable polluting. This is a problem.

  38. Anonymous[292] • Disclaimer says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    I don’t think the Kennewick matter was going to end amicably, no matter how tactful the scientists. This is Native-American creationism, and it’s about as amenable to reason as its Christian counterpart.

  39. @Old Jew

    The fact is that the wheel has turned and everyone can see what would have happened if the Goy were in an inferiority situation wrt to the Jews of Bukovina. It’s called Gaza.

    Alexianu and Codreanu knew that. The poor Romanians of Flamanzi knew that. Jews simply can’t hide their disgust for the others. They pay lip service, but, on that side of the world, people are too poor to care about words more than about money.

    Better if your grandmother cried, rather than my grandmother would have cried.

    “The Reds” were, of course, Russia-born Jews, many of whom proved their loyalty by fighting in Spain, on the side of the Anti-Christ. Some of the members of the first post-legalization Central Committee could not speak Romanian.

  40. @Old Jew

    Danzig bleibt deutsch (Danzig remains German). That’s a better translation of the original, if only sarcastic/wishful sentiment.

  41. BB753 says:
    @PiltdownMan

    Here’s a good short informative video by Masaman, a young HBD youtuber:

  42. E e says:
    @Jack D

    “One of these guys is completely, totally wrong, but which one?”

    Can’t it be both?

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