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From the New York Post:

Obama’s last act is to force suburbs to be less white and less wealthy

By Paul Sperry May 8, 2016 | 7:30am

[HUD Secretary Julian] Castro is expected to finalize the new regulation, known as “Small-Area Fair Market Rents” (SAFMR), this October, in the last days of the Obama presidency. It will set voucher rent limits by ZIP code rather than metro area, the current formula, which makes payments relatively small.

For example, the fair market rent for a one-bedroom in New York City is about $1,250, which wouldn’t cover rentals in leafy areas of Westchester County, such as Mamaroneck, where Castro and his social engineers seek to aggressively resettle Section 8 tenants. [The Section 8 reboot] is all part of a grand scheme to forcibly desegregate inner cities and integrate the outer suburbs. In expensive ZIP codes, Castro’s plan — which requires no congressional approval — would more than double the standard subsidy, while also covering utilities. At the same time, he intends to reduce subsidies for those who choose to stay in housing in poor urban areas, such as Brooklyn.

So Section 8 tenants won’t just be pulled to the suburbs, they’ll be pushed there. “We want to use our housing-choice vouchers to ensure that we don’t have a concentration of poverty and the aggregation of racial minorities in one part of town, the poor part of town,” the HUD chief said recently, adding that he’s trying to undo the “result of discriminatory policies and practices in the past, and sometimes even now.”

If you are thinking Brooklyn will stay poor once today’s poor Brooklynites are dispatched to the ‘burbs, well, I’ve got a Brooklyn Bridge to sell you.

A draft of the new HUD rule anticipates more than 350,000 Section 8 voucher holders will initially be resettled under the SAFMR program. Under Obama, the total number of voucher households has grown to more than 2.2 million. The document argues that larger vouchers will allow poor urban families to “move into areas that potentially have better access to jobs, transportation, services and educational opportunities.” In other words, offering them more money to move to more expensive neighborhoods will improve their situation.

Because who ever enjoyed any opportunity living in Brooklyn?

Brooklyn has Tragic Dirt!

All the poor people in Brooklyn must be evacuated for their own good.

Brooklyn’s dirt is tragic because it’s full of subway lines providing convenient connections to Manhattan. You can’t expect poor people to be able to afford to get to jobs when the dirt is teeming with subways. The poor people need to be moved to distant suburbs where they can all afford to commute long distances to work in their own private cars.

 
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  1. Ed says:

    Actually there is a whole confluence of hot button issues here, and Steve is being a bit snarky.

    First the federal government has done this before:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_Act_of_1949

    Now the result was to move white people from slums in the cities to the suburbs. Now that they are doing it with black people, everyone is going to be up in arms. But when you see behind the mythologizing, the purpose of the suburbs, ever since World War 2, has been to provide housing for people on the lower income side of the scale scale, as far as the federal government has been concerned. Granted the lower income whites moved out in the first waves of suburbanization became higher income for awhile, but those days are ending anyway.

    Of course the tool now is vouchers instead of subsidizing home construction, but then there already have been lots of houses built so the tools are different this time around. Also this is now a tool for desegregation, not segregation, but again this is perfectly consistent with the federal government’s policies since the 1960s.

    Both suburbanization as an urban planning strategy, and even pushing desegregation of residential areas, can be questioned on various grounds. What I object to is that this is some sort of revolutionary thing the Obama administration is doing. Its the logical development of federal government policies that date back decades.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That 1949 law was right at the start of an explosion in suburban housing supply. The highway system and suburban developments expanded in the 50s. The suburbs are mature now. Not the same thing.
    , @Josh
    It was desegregation even then. It was about breaking up the impenetrable Catholic ethnic communities so that they could be Americanized.

    Steve, you have mentioned urban Catholic ethnic communities a fair amount lately; have you read "the slaughter of cities: urban renewal as ethnic cleansing"? For my money, the best history of 20th century us domestic policy yet written. its very isteve.
    , @bomag
    I thought the signature achievement of the 1949 act was the inner city Projects, which expanded the urban ghetto.

    The mortgage insurance part is still there, doing the same thing. Section "ate" is a step beyond that, with outright subsidies for people to move and live somewhere.
    , @Colleen Pater
    Could there be a reason people are up in arms in the black case? Are you not using "lower income side of the scale" to mean totally different things in the black white cases you compare with the phrase? Are not the "suburbs" you and steve talk about of an entirely different kind, or do you not know the difference between Westchester and Ferguson? Is there not a a difference between welfare rent vouchers targeted to destroy good neighborhoods and government backed mortgages for returning vets on former farmland? And are the benefits of those middle income whites that turned into higher income whites now declining, squandered by the whites or by the government suppressing wages with immigration and globalization projects and are now targeting the very highest bracket for the same? Of course its a new kind of thing its weaponized busing
  2. Firstly I’d like to say that I’m really not anony-mouse.

    I’m anony-mouse’s spokesman. Anony-mouse is currently having sex with a dozen beautiful women. It is their ‘Best Sex Ever’ as you will read in the papers and believe.

    So there gullible Trump supporters.

    Secondly about the article: Wouldn’t it be more likely that poor people from the Bronx would move to Westchester? After that, people from Harlem.

  3. Off-topic, but I think this paper would be of great interest to Steve. Harvard economist George Borjas debunked the much-ballyhooed 1990 study that found that the Mariel Boatlift had no effect on wages last October:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20151007165844/http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/gborjas/publications/working%20papers/Mariel2015.pdf

    • Replies: @Pseudonymic Handle
    He covered this repeatedly.
  4. This is part and parcel of the general strategy to demoralize whites by stripping away their symbols and heritage, and to dispossess them by forcing them to accommodate asocial, dysfunctional minorities. Unless there’s white pushback soon and hard, it’ll probably work–the elites have deserted the white proles.

  5. Rhetoric in the NY Post article is a bit overblown, but characterization of the policy and the (missing) evidence behind it is correct.

    a) We have no reason to think MTO will help recipients vs. existing Section 8. The original study said it didn’t, and Chetty’s update (linked here) is pretty unconvincing. (The one of his colleagues I heard present this work said, “we think moving in general is damaging in the short-term to kids, but moving to wealthier areas eventually has some long-term benefits.)
    https://spottedtoad.wordpress.com/2016/03/17/the-problem-with-moving-to-opportunity-in-one-nyc-map/
    b) Why force poor families to move when they don’t want to? This is about pushing families to leave their neighborhoods, not just enticing them.
    c) Everyone knows jobs and opportunities are moving to the cities. Do we just not care about poor people finding work anymore?
    D) As for low-income kids, the evidence for integration by race or SES is quite mixed. There’s not a magic bullet here. https://spottedtoad.wordpress.com/2016/02/10/diversity-and-student-achievement/
    e) The most important obstacle to this plan, of course, is that *majority* of kids in the country are low-income as defined by FRPL status.
    f) Even if being a poor kid in a *very* low-poverty school is on average helpful to some outcomes, you run out of such schools very quickly.
    g) In 1970s, last time the push for forced integration came, you had an 83% white non-Hispanic country: a lot more integration to go around.
    h) Can’t help but feel political force behind this- and a lack of opposition- comes ultimately from declining birthrate of the bien-pensant.
    I) While suburbs are routinely characterized as nexus of wealth & privilege,everyone knows cities are where it’s at.
    https://spottedtoad.wordpress.com/2016/05/06/the-metropole-calleth/
    J) It’s also just strange how little opposition is encountered by plans to make poverty programs more paternalistic.
    https://spottedtoad.wordpress.com/2016/05/10/all-men-are-created-equal-is-about-the-rules-of-the-game-not-the-quality-of-the-players/
    K) Between Bloomberg (and cigarette regulation) nobody really cares about freedom of the poor to make what their betters consider mistakes.
    L) But now, apparently, choosing to stay in a neighborhood with your friends, family, and (most likely) more job opportunities is a mistake.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    "b) Why force poor families to move when they don’t want to? This is about pushing families to leave their neighborhoods, not just enticing them."

    If you are dependent on the State, you belong to the State.
    Why should they have any say in the matter? It's the white guys who pay taxes who should decide- and they can't either.

  6. This is one push I agree with, however flawed the rhetoric is. I believe geographic concentrations of subsidized housing (i.e. horrible neighborhoods) are the number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes. I’d like to see strategic dispersal and breakup — not entire Fergusonvilles, but true dispersal. That is what has been missing in the urban centers of the North, Midwest, and the West. (The South developed in a different, non-urban way to begin with).

    However, it is not discrimination that resulted in “poor neighborhoods.” There’s going to need to be social change when people are relocated.

    Fortunately, after previous generations of left-wingers decried “consumer culture,” technology has brought us lots of nifty things with monthly bills (smartphones, Netflix) that the masses want to buy and which require an address and regular bill-paying, so there will be a need to work for cash. Hopefully, the high tech cultures of the world can keep generating enough gadgets to make the rest of the world want to work and make an income.

    Spiritual beliefs aside ( they are important), the family is at its heart an economic unit. A unit of teamwork to get through life’s basic needs. Wherever the family has broken down (usually because of government assistance), we should constantly churn and stimulate, regenerating somehow and hope to bring about new bonds of family. (Good luck, as these same Democrats hate the baggage of traditional family, despite its overwhelmingly obvious social benefits).

    • Replies: @countenance
    "Fergusonvilles"

    Ferguson is (or was), the Westchester County to the city of St. Louis being Brooklyn. IOW, Ferguson is where Section 8 ghetto blacks were "AFFHed" to.
    , @SFG
    I used to think that way as well. Problem is, you don't have enough whites (and Asians) anymore for dilution to work as a way to uplift everyone.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    The current policy, of subsidizing poverty in expensive cities, makes no sense, but this Obama initiative makes even less sense. At least if you live in a poor neighborhood in Brooklyn you can commute to a job at Starbucks in a more expensive part of town, and have a shot at applying for a decent-paying government job at the department of sanitation or something. In Westchester, your odds of getting either kind of job would be lower.

    In the suburbs, poor NAMs have to compete with middle class WAs for Starbucks jobs; in NYC, the middle class WAs are drawn to higher-end retail jobs, leaving more room for NAMs at big chains.

    A better idea would be to go in the opposite direction: base the Section 8 stipend on the national average. Then the poor would migrate to states with low costs of living, like Mississippi. Those states are also magnets for manufacturing, due to their low cost of living and lack of unions. Trump's trade policies would drive more manufacturing there.

    , @2Mintzin1
    " I’d like to see strategic dispersal and breakup — not entire Fergusonvilles, but true dispersal."

    A fine idea. How about 5 or 10 Section 8 houses in your 'Hood. Where do you live?
    , @Mr. Anon
    How about you tell us your address, so we can forward it to HUD, and they can send some poverty-dispersing cultural enrichment to your your neighborhood? Any rental houses on your street? For that matter, do you have a spare room? I'm sure you could put up a deserving family from the projects, and you can make a little money on the side.

    "Fortunately, after previous generations of left-wingers decried “consumer culture,” technology has brought us lots of nifty things with monthly bills (smartphones, Netflix) that the masses want to buy and which require an address and regular bill-paying, so there will be a need to work for cash."

    And you are under the impression that many of these people don't already have such gadgets?
    , @Reg Cæsar

    I believe geographic concentrations of subsidized housing (i.e. horrible neighborhoods) are the number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes.
     
    Take out the words "the number", and I'd agree. Good design can do only so much, but bad design can pile the problems on.

    From the Wikipedia article on St Louis's Pruitt-Igoe project:

    The initial proposal provided a mix of high-rise, mid-rise and walk-up buildings. It was acceptable to St. Louis authorities, but exceeded the federal cost limits imposed by the PHA; the agency intervened and imposed a uniform building height at 11 floors.

    The original design was recognizably human, and might have made a go of it. But the Corbusian scale of the final project couldn't be saved by a populace of angels.

    It was also segregated until 1956; Pruitt for blacks, Igoe for whites. It does make one wonder what the place would have looked like had that held on for another decade.

    Imagine the World Trade Center (by the same architect, working within equally stupid constraints) all white in one building, all NAM in the other. I suspect there'd be tremendous pressure to keep the buildings looking roughly the same on the outside, with the general public banned from entering one of them.
    , @Wilkey
    Rubbish. The already well-documented experience with Section 8 vouchers is that the situations of the voucher recipients do not improve. All Section 8 does is take poverty and crime that was once concentrated and disperse it across a wider area. I've seen Section 8 lay waste to huge chunks of a city in the space of a few short years.
    , @ben tillman

    This is one push I agree with, however flawed the rhetoric is. I believe geographic concentrations of subsidized housing (i.e. horrible neighborhoods) are the number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes.
     
    The "number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes" is the subsidization of the procreation by people who don't produce enough to take care of their children.
  7. This sounds like another issue Trump should bring to the fore.

  8. Before and after Zillow will be something.

    Trillions and trillions of dollars in lost valuation.

    Should be enough to trigger a depression to make 1929 look like a rounding error.

    And it will be completely unstoppable.

    Deporting 11 million is child’s play by comparison.

  9. When this program takes off you can be rest assured the “leafy suburbs” will NOT include Mamaroneck. Or Harrison. Or Bedford. Or–Sacre Bleu!–Chappaqua (where You Know Who and the Husband of Record live). All these communities consist of affluent whites whose contact with minorities consist of the nanny and the leaf blower crowd. No. We’re talking more like White Plains, Port Chester and Peekskill–all with significant minority populations. They could try so-called “scatter site” housing (tailored to Section 8 people) but that won’t fly because of the danger of the NIMBY syndrome raising its ugly head. Furthermore, over recent years there has been a “reverse” White Flight back to the cities as more and more minorities spill out of the cities and into the ‘burns. The Obama administration proposal will only hasten this phenomenon–which means that Brooklyn won’t stay poor long.

  10. We’ve decided that the inner cities are actually where the criminal elite want to be, and to be left unmolested by the unwashed masses. Of course we are going to encourage them to move out to the burbs where they are no longer seen or heard. To

    “… move into areas that potentially have better access to jobs, transportation, services and educational opportunities.”

    You’re kidding, right? Aside from maids and gardeners being better located with respect to houses they serve, how are the suburban poor actually benefiting from being moved out to greener pastures?

    • Replies: @boogerbently
    Idaho has a .9% black population. (Less than 1%)
    , @a Newsreader
    By not having to live among as many other poor people.
  11. A Brooklyn NY real estate developer built an apartment complex in Wilkes Barre Pa. The genius part is he filled the Wilkes Barre apartment complex with section 8 renters from Brooklyn NY. I always wondered if they were from his own buildings in Brooklyn NY. This unleashed a crime wave in Wilkes Barre that was due in many cases to family members of the section 8 tenants traveling from Brooklyn NY to Wilkes Barre Pa often to elude law enforcement in Brooklyn NY.

    Owner of Sherman Hills Responds To Criticism About Crime

    http://wnep.com/2013/11/15/owner-of-sherman-hills-responds-to-criticism-about-crime/

    A possible connection with Obama is that he lives in Chicago IL which is trying to off load persons to Dubuque IA and Ypsilanti MI.

    Fair housing complaint filed against Ypsilanti Township
    http://michiganradio.org/post/fair-housing-complaint-filed-against-ypsilanti-township#stream/0

    • Replies: @International Jew

    This unleashed a crime wave in Wilkes Barre
     
    I was in Lancaster, PA recently. The downtown is pretty scary, aside from a few blocks of Amish-themed stuff.
    , @Mike Zwick
    This in on top of the fact that Chicago has off loaded its public housing residents to Downstate Illinois cities for a decade and a half.
    , @Olorin
    Wilkes-Barre. That's the town where Joe Biden's dad's people (Robinette) were so big before the family hit hard times, IIRC.

    The spokesbot for the Sherman Hills complex is one Sam Gold, n.b.


    During the interview, Gold would not say how much money was invested, or how many Section 8 properties that Park Management Inc. owns or operates.

    Gold also told Newswatch 16 that Pennsylvania gun control laws are too lax, explaining that the company doesn’t have many problems with guns at their properties in Brooklyn,
     

    Lends a whole new layer to "cash for guns," nu?

    Brooklyn. That's the borough from whence Bernie Sanders and Jane O'Meara Driscoll Sanders hailed. Before they both white flighted to Vermont (separately) and availed themselves of the goyische charms of Burlington.

  12. Shaking my head. You forgot to work Ta and his $2.1 million Brooklyn brownstone into this.

  13. The yuppies of the Bay Area are already greedily looking at prime Oakland property.

    In fact, for the last year, that’s what the Bay Area newspapers (and Oakland politicians themselves) have called Oakland–the “New Brooklyn.”

  14. The South Bronx is a major example of a section of New York City that went from Magic Dirt to Tragic Dirt on steroids.

    Member of the Puerto Rican gang Ghetto Brothers, Benjy Melendez an O.G said in a documentary that when he first moved to the South Bronx in 1959 it was still slightly majority White. Fast track 10 years later to 1969 and the South Bronx had become a no-go zone area for Whites.

    What a huge difference 10 years makes. South Bronx was the original Ferguson.

    • Replies: @Yak-15
    Why not just move all the violent dindus on to reservations? It's basically what Chicago did to its human urban blight by sending them out to Rockford and Dubuque.
  15. MQ says:

    The effects of this are going to be complex since many urban zip codes have already fully gentrified, while many suburban areas are already turning into poor areas. E.g. in Washington DC the effect of this will be to raise the subsidy for black families moving to Northwest Washington, an all-white area full of million dollar houses, and lower the subsidy for black families moving to suburban Prince George’s county, which is majority black.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    I cannot wait to see if Fairfax County Virginia just outside Washington DC become recipients of this. There are wealthy venues there, they are newly liberal, I want them to get in on some of the Dindu presence. McLean, Vienna, Tyson's Corner, Fairfax City, these are wealthy areas with million dollar averages in single family homes. Folks that haven't seen a Black face their whole lives will taste diversity.

    And they deserve it. And so do their children.

  16. Has any of the electorate anywhere ever approved this program?

    Has Congress ever approved it?

    Trump ought to make an issue of it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Isn't Trump's real estate portfolio disproportionately urban. He would benefit from this policy if if pushed undesirables out of the cities and pressured well-off suburbanites to move into the cities. Of course one problem is that the well-off suburbanites won't be so well off anymore after the value of their suburban houses goes down the drain.
  17. I don’t see this as a magic dirt plan. Forced integration is an implicit admission that it’s not the dirt.

    • Replies: @Dirk Dagger
    There's "good" magic and "bad" magic.
  18. Now Dallas has one of the highest murder rates in the nation, and recently had to call in state troopers to help police control it. For the first time, violent crime has shifted to the tony bedroom communities north of the city. Three suburbs that have seen the most Section 8 transfers — Frisco, Plano and McKinney — have suffered unprecedented spikes in rapes, assaults and break-ins, including home invasions.

    Hurrah for the ongoing general liberalization of gun laws across the country! If we’re gonna have universal action-packed burgeoning vibrancy, those of us (adults) who aren’t criminals at least can even the odds defensively.

    • Replies: @countenance
    FYI, I watched that legislation make its way through the General Assembly, and it is a mistake to call it a true constitutional carry bill. It is a loosening of rules, but not truly ConCarry, unless something changed drastically with the bill text in the last two weeks. Just as well, because I don't think ConCarry is a good idea in NAM-heavy states.
  19. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    This is what it’s like to live under a hostile elite.

    I’ve never seen a Hunger Games movie or book but I know the plot line of Psycho Hostile Elite in Capitol City dominating the powerless who reside everywhere else (very North Korean btw).

    This is the future they have planned for the little people.

    Anyway we are in the early phase. Very Stalinesque these relocations of mass populations. As Steve has documented the elites are forcibly reclaiming urban core real estate all over the country. It’s part and parcel of the Liberals dumping liberalism for neo-Leftism. No more Mister Nice Guy when it comes to low IQ violent minorities. Just eject them.

    But there’s a fly in the ointment. The urban cores are the high value targets for terrorism, bioweapons and yes nukes.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    One side effect of this sort of thing though is that it makes cities where elites are concentrated more vulnerable to siege attacks.
    , @Bill Jones
    "But there’s a fly in the ointment. The urban cores are the high value targets for terrorism, bioweapons and yes nukes."

    None of which are threats compared to the diversity.
  20. One bug/feature of this plan is that the suburbs are, geographically, vast. Core land, near the office towers and opera houses, is inherently scarce, while increasing your radius increases your land area by a square power. It’s a simple law of geometry.

    Which is to say, you don’t actually have to trash all your suburbs by parachuting in poor, dysfunctional residents evenly across the region. You simply have to threaten havoc indeterminately across a wide enough range of targets for the county executives in Westchester and Nassau to come to their senses and offer up enough sacrificial neighborhoods / school districts in which to build the new public high-rises. The really important suburbs can thus be spared. And the better-located towers near the Brooklyn Navy Yard, etc., can then be repurposed.

    I’m not saying everyone thinks this way. There are some true believers who will not stop until they’ve indeed found a nice subdivision for each idiot / hoodlum. But I’d bet that if this takes off, it’s because enough people figure they can work the system this way no matter what the official pronouncement says.

    Remember, not all the Banlieues of Paris are bad, and, critically, most of central Paris is good.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banlieue#

  21. Alcoholics have a name for this kind of delusion; the geographic cure, the erroneous idea that merely by moving you can solve all your problems. Reality is pathologies invariably are part of the package of us all. Which has been the experience with those cities like Chicago who knocked down the projects and found the crime of the former residents merely spread out thanks to Section 8.

    At a loss how moving to suburb would make anyone more accessible to public transportation nor jobs, spare lawn care, construction trades and kitchen help.And in suburbia those jobs are often filled by illegals. There is no public transportation in Westchester County, NY spare sporadic bus service and commuter trains back into NYC.Nobody moving out there is moving closer to a job.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Actually, when it comes to addiction they've shown moving is helpful. You lose all your old drug contacts and there's nobody to suck you back in. Not that it's infallible, but it has some positive effects.
    , @Almost Missouri

    "At a loss how moving to suburb would make anyone more accessible to public transportation nor jobs, ... . There is no public transportation in Westchester County, NY ... . Nobody moving out there is moving closer to a job."
     
    Bugg,

    Ignore the squid ink, they don't really mean it anyway. The objective is to create Suburban Bantustans, where the residents/inmates will be isolated from the metro core and its billionaire playgrounds. To the designers, the lack of public transport access is a feature, not a bug. In their view, most Section-8ers don't have jobs anyway and the few who do can easily and cheaply be backfilled with a compliant illegal.

  22. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Now Dallas has one of the highest murder rates in the nation, and recently had to call in state troopers to help police control it. For the first time, violent crime has shifted to the tony bedroom communities north of the city. Three suburbs that have seen the most Section 8 transfers — Frisco, Plano and McKinney — have suffered unprecedented spikes in rapes, assaults and break-ins, including home invasions.
     
    Hurrah for the ongoing general liberalization of gun laws across the country! If we’re gonna have universal action-packed burgeoning vibrancy, those of us (adults) who aren’t criminals at least can even the odds defensively.

    FYI, I watched that legislation make its way through the General Assembly, and it is a mistake to call it a true constitutional carry bill. It is a loosening of rules, but not truly ConCarry, unless something changed drastically with the bill text in the last two weeks. Just as well, because I don’t think ConCarry is a good idea in NAM-heavy states.

    • Replies: @Psmith

    I don’t think ConCarry is a good idea in NAM-heavy states.
     
    Prima facie plausible, but as far as I know it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference one way or the other in e.g. Arizona (58% Hispanic according to Wikipedia, 30% according to Census Bureau) and too soon to tell or not NAM enough to be relevant everywhere else. I'd be interested to hear if you've seen anything to the contrary.
  23. @Bannon
    This is one push I agree with, however flawed the rhetoric is. I believe geographic concentrations of subsidized housing (i.e. horrible neighborhoods) are the number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes. I'd like to see strategic dispersal and breakup -- not entire Fergusonvilles, but true dispersal. That is what has been missing in the urban centers of the North, Midwest, and the West. (The South developed in a different, non-urban way to begin with).

    However, it is not discrimination that resulted in "poor neighborhoods." There's going to need to be social change when people are relocated.

    Fortunately, after previous generations of left-wingers decried "consumer culture," technology has brought us lots of nifty things with monthly bills (smartphones, Netflix) that the masses want to buy and which require an address and regular bill-paying, so there will be a need to work for cash. Hopefully, the high tech cultures of the world can keep generating enough gadgets to make the rest of the world want to work and make an income.

    Spiritual beliefs aside ( they are important), the family is at its heart an economic unit. A unit of teamwork to get through life's basic needs. Wherever the family has broken down (usually because of government assistance), we should constantly churn and stimulate, regenerating somehow and hope to bring about new bonds of family. (Good luck, as these same Democrats hate the baggage of traditional family, despite its overwhelmingly obvious social benefits).

    “Fergusonvilles”

    Ferguson is (or was), the Westchester County to the city of St. Louis being Brooklyn. IOW, Ferguson is where Section 8 ghetto blacks were “AFFHed” to.

  24. Poor people impose negative externalities on those around them. It follows that they should live near as few people as possible. Within NYC, that means distant suburbs, not densely populated Brooklyn. Hoolian is doing the right thing, QED.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Putting them out in the suburbs though means they impose greater negative externalities on greater physical territory. You're effectively lowering the supply of land, and thereby increasing the value of land in dense areas and lowering the value of labor i.e. lowering wages. The lowers the overall wage level, which is ultimately determined by the best land available at lowest cost.

    http://www.foldvary.net/sciecs/ch02.html

    The best available land that can be had for free is called the "extensive" margin of production. It is called "extensive" because people keep extending or moving it out to lands of ever lesser quality as the better land gets taken up. The wage level is determined at the extensive margin, where the best free land is available. This boundary is also called the margin or cultivation, or more generally, for lands of all uses, the margin of production.

    It is only when the margin is pushed further and further away and people are located on worse and worse land that the base rate of wages will fall. As George (p. 206) stated, "the wages which an employer must pay will be measured by the lowest point of natural productiveness to which production extends, and wages will rise or fall as this point rises or falls." If people are pushed to production on the land on which one can barely survive, then wages will be at a subsistence level.

    In Great Britain, at the time when people set off to colonise Australia, wages were low. With labor competing for limited opportunities and a no free good land available, employers could afford to offer low wages. However, in Australia, New Zealand, and America, the situation was reversed. Land taken from the aboriginal inhabitants was available to European immigrants, and it had a much higher yield than the margin in Europe. Therefore, wages for other occupations had to be high to keep employees.
     
    , @AndrewR
    Show us on the doll where the bad economically disadvantaged people touched you.
    , @bomag
    Dear Lot,

    You are trolling, I presume, but the model here is of a pandemic: cities are at an equilibrium between 'healthy' and 'infirmed', but to free hospital space, they export some of their sick to nearby communities, thus blessing them with a contagion until the urban equilibrium is achieved. It is not a linear relationship with one person imposing a set cost; there is a multiplier you get with a reproducing social pathogen.

  25. @Anonymous
    This is what it's like to live under a hostile elite.

    I've never seen a Hunger Games movie or book but I know the plot line of Psycho Hostile Elite in Capitol City dominating the powerless who reside everywhere else (very North Korean btw).

    This is the future they have planned for the little people.

    Anyway we are in the early phase. Very Stalinesque these relocations of mass populations. As Steve has documented the elites are forcibly reclaiming urban core real estate all over the country. It's part and parcel of the Liberals dumping liberalism for neo-Leftism. No more Mister Nice Guy when it comes to low IQ violent minorities. Just eject them.

    But there's a fly in the ointment. The urban cores are the high value targets for terrorism, bioweapons and yes nukes.

    One side effect of this sort of thing though is that it makes cities where elites are concentrated more vulnerable to siege attacks.

  26. Old conventional wisdom: The suburbs are a byproduct of dumb housing policy. The suburbs are soul-deadening. The suburbs are bad. The suburbs are finished.

    New conventional wisdom: We must move the underprivileged to the suburbs.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    Only a few years ago the prog-left reformers were urging development of higher density cities for the critical mass of infrastructure, jobs, etc.--that suburbs were inefficient and a waste of resources.
  27. @Bannon
    This is one push I agree with, however flawed the rhetoric is. I believe geographic concentrations of subsidized housing (i.e. horrible neighborhoods) are the number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes. I'd like to see strategic dispersal and breakup -- not entire Fergusonvilles, but true dispersal. That is what has been missing in the urban centers of the North, Midwest, and the West. (The South developed in a different, non-urban way to begin with).

    However, it is not discrimination that resulted in "poor neighborhoods." There's going to need to be social change when people are relocated.

    Fortunately, after previous generations of left-wingers decried "consumer culture," technology has brought us lots of nifty things with monthly bills (smartphones, Netflix) that the masses want to buy and which require an address and regular bill-paying, so there will be a need to work for cash. Hopefully, the high tech cultures of the world can keep generating enough gadgets to make the rest of the world want to work and make an income.

    Spiritual beliefs aside ( they are important), the family is at its heart an economic unit. A unit of teamwork to get through life's basic needs. Wherever the family has broken down (usually because of government assistance), we should constantly churn and stimulate, regenerating somehow and hope to bring about new bonds of family. (Good luck, as these same Democrats hate the baggage of traditional family, despite its overwhelmingly obvious social benefits).

    I used to think that way as well. Problem is, you don’t have enough whites (and Asians) anymore for dilution to work as a way to uplift everyone.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    SJW solution: import more Asians.
  28. @Bannon
    This is one push I agree with, however flawed the rhetoric is. I believe geographic concentrations of subsidized housing (i.e. horrible neighborhoods) are the number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes. I'd like to see strategic dispersal and breakup -- not entire Fergusonvilles, but true dispersal. That is what has been missing in the urban centers of the North, Midwest, and the West. (The South developed in a different, non-urban way to begin with).

    However, it is not discrimination that resulted in "poor neighborhoods." There's going to need to be social change when people are relocated.

    Fortunately, after previous generations of left-wingers decried "consumer culture," technology has brought us lots of nifty things with monthly bills (smartphones, Netflix) that the masses want to buy and which require an address and regular bill-paying, so there will be a need to work for cash. Hopefully, the high tech cultures of the world can keep generating enough gadgets to make the rest of the world want to work and make an income.

    Spiritual beliefs aside ( they are important), the family is at its heart an economic unit. A unit of teamwork to get through life's basic needs. Wherever the family has broken down (usually because of government assistance), we should constantly churn and stimulate, regenerating somehow and hope to bring about new bonds of family. (Good luck, as these same Democrats hate the baggage of traditional family, despite its overwhelmingly obvious social benefits).

    The current policy, of subsidizing poverty in expensive cities, makes no sense, but this Obama initiative makes even less sense. At least if you live in a poor neighborhood in Brooklyn you can commute to a job at Starbucks in a more expensive part of town, and have a shot at applying for a decent-paying government job at the department of sanitation or something. In Westchester, your odds of getting either kind of job would be lower.

    In the suburbs, poor NAMs have to compete with middle class WAs for Starbucks jobs; in NYC, the middle class WAs are drawn to higher-end retail jobs, leaving more room for NAMs at big chains.

    A better idea would be to go in the opposite direction: base the Section 8 stipend on the national average. Then the poor would migrate to states with low costs of living, like Mississippi. Those states are also magnets for manufacturing, due to their low cost of living and lack of unions. Trump’s trade policies would drive more manufacturing there.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    At least if you live in a poor neighborhood in Brooklyn you can commute to a job at Starbucks in a more expensive part of town, and have a shot at applying for a decent-paying government job at the department of sanitation or something.
     
    The reality is that they are likely using the subway and easy commute to get to affluent areas where they can steal shit to make a living.

    Moving them out to the suburbs is going to reduce the crime in those influential areas.

    The suburbs better organize if they want to stop this.

    Frank Herbert had a good idea.
    , @Louis Renault
    A reverse Great Migration since the "giant sucking sound" of NAFTA destroyed upward mobility for blacks North of the Mason Dixon line so go to the poorest part of America so the nice white folks up North don't need to put up with you any longer. I'm sure that will take hold in Detroit.
  29. @Bugg
    Alcoholics have a name for this kind of delusion; the geographic cure, the erroneous idea that merely by moving you can solve all your problems. Reality is pathologies invariably are part of the package of us all. Which has been the experience with those cities like Chicago who knocked down the projects and found the crime of the former residents merely spread out thanks to Section 8.

    At a loss how moving to suburb would make anyone more accessible to public transportation nor jobs, spare lawn care, construction trades and kitchen help.And in suburbia those jobs are often filled by illegals. There is no public transportation in Westchester County, NY spare sporadic bus service and commuter trains back into NYC.Nobody moving out there is moving closer to a job.

    Actually, when it comes to addiction they’ve shown moving is helpful. You lose all your old drug contacts and there’s nobody to suck you back in. Not that it’s infallible, but it has some positive effects.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "Actually, when it comes to addiction they’ve shown moving is helpful. You lose all your old drug contacts and there’s nobody to suck you back in. Not that it’s infallible, but it has some positive effects."

    What if the people doing the moving (or thier relations) are the old drug contacts?
    , @The preferred nomenclature is...
    Nothing personal, SFG, but you clearly do not know what you are talking about in this case. Bugg, does. He was also talking about alcoholics, not drug addicts (not always the same thing). There are liquor stores/bars everywhere you go. You don't need "contacts" to procure 'ol John Barleycorn.
    , @anonymous

    You lose all your old drug contacts and there’s nobody to suck you back in.
     
    Drug users quickly reestablish new contacts. They recognize each other in a sort of drug user's radar. If they're looking it takes a day or so.
  30. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    Poor people impose negative externalities on those around them. It follows that they should live near as few people as possible. Within NYC, that means distant suburbs, not densely populated Brooklyn. Hoolian is doing the right thing, QED.

    Putting them out in the suburbs though means they impose greater negative externalities on greater physical territory. You’re effectively lowering the supply of land, and thereby increasing the value of land in dense areas and lowering the value of labor i.e. lowering wages. The lowers the overall wage level, which is ultimately determined by the best land available at lowest cost.

    http://www.foldvary.net/sciecs/ch02.html

    The best available land that can be had for free is called the “extensive” margin of production. It is called “extensive” because people keep extending or moving it out to lands of ever lesser quality as the better land gets taken up. The wage level is determined at the extensive margin, where the best free land is available. This boundary is also called the margin or cultivation, or more generally, for lands of all uses, the margin of production.

    It is only when the margin is pushed further and further away and people are located on worse and worse land that the base rate of wages will fall. As George (p. 206) stated, “the wages which an employer must pay will be measured by the lowest point of natural productiveness to which production extends, and wages will rise or fall as this point rises or falls.” If people are pushed to production on the land on which one can barely survive, then wages will be at a subsistence level.

    In Great Britain, at the time when people set off to colonise Australia, wages were low. With labor competing for limited opportunities and a no free good land available, employers could afford to offer low wages. However, in Australia, New Zealand, and America, the situation was reversed. Land taken from the aboriginal inhabitants was available to European immigrants, and it had a much higher yield than the margin in Europe. Therefore, wages for other occupations had to be high to keep employees.

  31. Obama’s primary political patrons were Chicago real estate interests, which included the Pritzkers and others. This seems like a favor to urban real estate magnates.

  32. I wonder how Trump will respond to this. Real estate, unlike foreign policy, is his area of expertise.

    • Replies: @Glossy
    Trump has the most sensible foreign policy of anyone who ran this year besides Rand Paul, and he has much more sensible domestic policies than Rand Paul did. The thing with Trump is that he doesn't seem to have any areas of expertise, yet he gets the big picture right every time. I doubt he knows a lot of detail about the real estste business either. He's not a details sort of guy by nature. He understands people intuitively, so he can BS them and cut through their BS. The latter ability is probably why he's been able to see the political truths that others have missed.
  33. Churn, baby, churn!

    Always remember, Liberals Mean Well (thanks to whoever emphasized this in a recent comment). And if they can make a bunch of money in the deal, well, so what? And if it turns out that the same class that planned and executed this make a bunch of money out of the deal, but otherwise their plan doesn’t turn out well, so what? They Meant Well, and that’s what matters.

    So there gullible Trump supporters.

    If Trump voters are gullible, what are you Clinton voters? Insane? Nihilistic?

    • Replies: @Anonym
    If Trump voters are gullible, what are you Clinton voters? Insane? Nihilistic?

    Self hating... if white.
  34. Actually, when it comes to addiction they’ve shown moving is helpful. You lose all your old drug contacts and there’s nobody to suck you back in. Not that it’s infallible, but it has some positive effects.

    True, but with booze everyone has a “drug contact” five minutes away.

  35. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Brooklyn’s dirt is tragic because it’s full of subway lines providing convenient connections to Manhattan. You can’t expect poor people to be able to afford to get to jobs when the dirt is teeming with subways. The poor people need to be moved to distant suburbs where they can all afford to commute long distances to work in their own private cars.”

    I think the assumption is that these people don’t work and will never work. The idea is to get workers closer to businesses (I.e., cities) and non-workers – the underclass and retired – out to the suburbs. Maybe I’m wrong. Regardless, I hate what Obama’s doing.

  36. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Like a fool I thought that holding a job and making money to pay for rent and necessities were what I was supposed to do. Instead I should have applied for benefits and just sat on my rear end for years just waiting for my number to move up. Eventually I might have cashed in and ended up in some fancy housing better that what I was paying for and better than what a lot of white people are able to afford. Why didn’t somebody take me in hand and tell me these things right at the outset? All I get is to pay for these fabulous blacks to roll around in luxury.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The Masters of the Universe have a plan for a Universal Basic Income (UBI). The Fed creates money from thin air, buys government bonds with it and the government mails everyone a check. Big shots like Bill Gross are all for it since they know that mass unemployment is the future for the USA and they want to decouple income from meaningful work.
  37. @Spotted Toad
    Rhetoric in the NY Post article is a bit overblown, but characterization of the policy and the (missing) evidence behind it is correct.

    a) We have no reason to think MTO will help recipients vs. existing Section 8. The original study said it didn't, and Chetty's update (linked here) is pretty unconvincing. (The one of his colleagues I heard present this work said, "we think moving in general is damaging in the short-term to kids, but moving to wealthier areas eventually has some long-term benefits.)
    https://spottedtoad.wordpress.com/2016/03/17/the-problem-with-moving-to-opportunity-in-one-nyc-map/
    b) Why force poor families to move when they don't want to? This is about pushing families to leave their neighborhoods, not just enticing them.
    c) Everyone knows jobs and opportunities are moving to the cities. Do we just not care about poor people finding work anymore?
    D) As for low-income kids, the evidence for integration by race or SES is quite mixed. There's not a magic bullet here. https://spottedtoad.wordpress.com/2016/02/10/diversity-and-student-achievement/
    e) The most important obstacle to this plan, of course, is that *majority* of kids in the country are low-income as defined by FRPL status.
    f) Even if being a poor kid in a *very* low-poverty school is on average helpful to some outcomes, you run out of such schools very quickly.
    g) In 1970s, last time the push for forced integration came, you had an 83% white non-Hispanic country: a lot more integration to go around.
    h) Can't help but feel political force behind this- and a lack of opposition- comes ultimately from declining birthrate of the bien-pensant.
    I) While suburbs are routinely characterized as nexus of wealth & privilege,everyone knows cities are where it's at.
    https://spottedtoad.wordpress.com/2016/05/06/the-metropole-calleth/
    J) It's also just strange how little opposition is encountered by plans to make poverty programs more paternalistic.
    https://spottedtoad.wordpress.com/2016/05/10/all-men-are-created-equal-is-about-the-rules-of-the-game-not-the-quality-of-the-players/
    K) Between Bloomberg (and cigarette regulation) nobody really cares about freedom of the poor to make what their betters consider mistakes.
    L) But now, apparently, choosing to stay in a neighborhood with your friends, family, and (most likely) more job opportunities is a mistake.

    “b) Why force poor families to move when they don’t want to? This is about pushing families to leave their neighborhoods, not just enticing them.”

    If you are dependent on the State, you belong to the State.
    Why should they have any say in the matter? It’s the white guys who pay taxes who should decide- and they can’t either.

    • Replies: @George
    "It’s the white guys who pay taxes who should decide- and they can’t either."

    Increasingly it is South and East Asians that are paying the bills.

    The White guys in Dubuque decided. They gave preference in Section 8 to persons from Dubuque. That made it difficult to move blacks from Chicago there. My guess is there are people in Dubuque who would like to operate the section 8 projects also. The number of blacks currently in Dubuque is hard to figure out, I see number from 1 to 4 percent on the Internet.

    With the looming pension collapse in Illinois I wonder if the situation there is hopeless and it would not be easier to gentrify Dubuque instead of Chicago.
  38. @Anonymous
    This is what it's like to live under a hostile elite.

    I've never seen a Hunger Games movie or book but I know the plot line of Psycho Hostile Elite in Capitol City dominating the powerless who reside everywhere else (very North Korean btw).

    This is the future they have planned for the little people.

    Anyway we are in the early phase. Very Stalinesque these relocations of mass populations. As Steve has documented the elites are forcibly reclaiming urban core real estate all over the country. It's part and parcel of the Liberals dumping liberalism for neo-Leftism. No more Mister Nice Guy when it comes to low IQ violent minorities. Just eject them.

    But there's a fly in the ointment. The urban cores are the high value targets for terrorism, bioweapons and yes nukes.

    “But there’s a fly in the ointment. The urban cores are the high value targets for terrorism, bioweapons and yes nukes.”

    None of which are threats compared to the diversity.

  39. This is the child’s ploy of spreading vegetables around the plate to deceive parents into believing they’ve been eaten.

  40. this “problem” goes away if HUD and its money goes away. limited fed gov’t does wonders for a society. is mr. trump interested in eliminating fed gov’t bureau such as HUD? tell us trumpsters?

    • Replies: @Marty T
    Yeah, the article said the plan doesnt require Congressional approval. But of course it does require Congressional funding. GOP runs Congress. Anyone home there? HUD along with agencies like Dept of Education need to be defunded, because they allow the left to push an agenda without legislative approval. As for Trump, he might want to ask Hillary if she supports moving the dregs from Brooklyn to Chappaqua.
    , @Henry Bowman

    this “problem” goes away if HUD and its money goes away. limited fed gov’t does wonders for a society. is mr. trump interested in eliminating fed gov’t bureau such as HUD? tell us trumpsters?
     
    Well we need to sell it by some kind of name the left can not refuse such as "Home Owners Protection Act" but it will be done.
  41. Glossy says: • Website

    who choose to stay in housing in poor urban areas, such as Brooklyn.

    This is hilarious. I live in Brooklyn. Parts of it are wealthy, parts of it are middle class, but even the Black parts aren’t really all that poor or scary-looking. This is because most of the Blacks are from the Caribbean.

    But for whatever reason the government wants the gentrification trend to continue, so its representstives say such silly things as the above to justify it.

    The Blacks in New York are convinced that gentrification is anti-Black. Steve has quoted Spike Lee on that subject, but I’ve heard many, many Blacks, mostly co-workers, talk about it in person. But here is the Obama administration planning to help gentrification along. Why? Is Obama unaware of what Blacks generally think about this? There’s been gentrification in Chicago, he must know what the Black sentiment about it was there. Did someone besides him set this policy while he was golfing, playing parcheesi or watching basketball? I’m going to guess the latter.

    My feelings:

    It’s good for the city. It would be weird to root against the place one calls home. But I do feel for suburban homeowners. These are not the kind of Blacks that were portrayed on The Wire, but still, the home values will fall.

    • Replies: @Triumph104

    These are not the kind of Blacks that were portrayed on The Wire, but still, the home values will fall.
     
    Well, it would help close the black-white wealth gap.


    The New York Times did a story on people who have been priced out of their childhood neighborhoods in Brooklyn. About half identified as Caribbean descent.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/realestate/priced-out-of-my-childhood-home.html?_r=0


    Speaking of The Wire, the actor Wendell Pierce was arrested this weekend. He is a Hillary Clinton supporter and supposedly disagreed with and attacked a woman who is a Bernie Sanders supporter.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/16/woman-told-police-wendell-pierce-tried-to-enter-her-hotel-room.html
  42. The rule of the dim-witted in service of the morally obtuse and malignant continues apace.

  43. They gonna need Obama Cars to be able to truly pull this off.

  44. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    The current policy, of subsidizing poverty in expensive cities, makes no sense, but this Obama initiative makes even less sense. At least if you live in a poor neighborhood in Brooklyn you can commute to a job at Starbucks in a more expensive part of town, and have a shot at applying for a decent-paying government job at the department of sanitation or something. In Westchester, your odds of getting either kind of job would be lower.

    In the suburbs, poor NAMs have to compete with middle class WAs for Starbucks jobs; in NYC, the middle class WAs are drawn to higher-end retail jobs, leaving more room for NAMs at big chains.

    A better idea would be to go in the opposite direction: base the Section 8 stipend on the national average. Then the poor would migrate to states with low costs of living, like Mississippi. Those states are also magnets for manufacturing, due to their low cost of living and lack of unions. Trump's trade policies would drive more manufacturing there.

    At least if you live in a poor neighborhood in Brooklyn you can commute to a job at Starbucks in a more expensive part of town, and have a shot at applying for a decent-paying government job at the department of sanitation or something.

    The reality is that they are likely using the subway and easy commute to get to affluent areas where they can steal shit to make a living.

    Moving them out to the suburbs is going to reduce the crime in those influential areas.

    The suburbs better organize if they want to stop this.

    Frank Herbert had a good idea.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    "Frank Herbert had a good idea."

    I agree, but where are we going to find giant worms for the suburbanites turned suicide commandos to ride into the cities on?
  45. @Jefferson
    The South Bronx is a major example of a section of New York City that went from Magic Dirt to Tragic Dirt on steroids.

    Member of the Puerto Rican gang Ghetto Brothers, Benjy Melendez an O.G said in a documentary that when he first moved to the South Bronx in 1959 it was still slightly majority White. Fast track 10 years later to 1969 and the South Bronx had become a no-go zone area for Whites.

    What a huge difference 10 years makes. South Bronx was the original Ferguson.

    Why not just move all the violent dindus on to reservations? It’s basically what Chicago did to its human urban blight by sending them out to Rockford and Dubuque.

  46. @Chrisnonymous
    I don't see this as a magic dirt plan. Forced integration is an implicit admission that it's not the dirt.

    There’s “good” magic and “bad” magic.

  47. Barack Obama has been stymied by a Republican held House of Representatives for the past 6 years. He and all his liberal supporters believe these reactionaries stand in the way of the progressive agenda to perfect America. The best way to eliminate this reactionary influence in American politics is to resettle solid Democratic voters in suburban Republican districts. The wealthy whites who settle in places like Brooklyn will keep Brooklyn Democratic, while the African Americans settled in Westchester will make Westchester more Democratic. Do this all over the country, and Republicans slowly but surely begin to lose House seats. Why aren’t Republicans this crafty?

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    He and all his liberal supporters believe these reactionaries stand in the way of the progressive agenda to perfect America.
     
    I think you are completely wrong.

    They have no interest in creating a perfect America, at least not the way most Americans think of it.

    Their vision of a perfect America is an America that concerns itself with their interests and allows them to maintain control of the reins of power.
  48. @Bugg
    Alcoholics have a name for this kind of delusion; the geographic cure, the erroneous idea that merely by moving you can solve all your problems. Reality is pathologies invariably are part of the package of us all. Which has been the experience with those cities like Chicago who knocked down the projects and found the crime of the former residents merely spread out thanks to Section 8.

    At a loss how moving to suburb would make anyone more accessible to public transportation nor jobs, spare lawn care, construction trades and kitchen help.And in suburbia those jobs are often filled by illegals. There is no public transportation in Westchester County, NY spare sporadic bus service and commuter trains back into NYC.Nobody moving out there is moving closer to a job.

    “At a loss how moving to suburb would make anyone more accessible to public transportation nor jobs, … . There is no public transportation in Westchester County, NY … . Nobody moving out there is moving closer to a job.”

    Bugg,

    Ignore the squid ink, they don’t really mean it anyway. The objective is to create Suburban Bantustans, where the residents/inmates will be isolated from the metro core and its billionaire playgrounds. To the designers, the lack of public transport access is a feature, not a bug. In their view, most Section-8ers don’t have jobs anyway and the few who do can easily and cheaply be backfilled with a compliant illegal.

  49. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Victor
    Barack Obama has been stymied by a Republican held House of Representatives for the past 6 years. He and all his liberal supporters believe these reactionaries stand in the way of the progressive agenda to perfect America. The best way to eliminate this reactionary influence in American politics is to resettle solid Democratic voters in suburban Republican districts. The wealthy whites who settle in places like Brooklyn will keep Brooklyn Democratic, while the African Americans settled in Westchester will make Westchester more Democratic. Do this all over the country, and Republicans slowly but surely begin to lose House seats. Why aren't Republicans this crafty?

    He and all his liberal supporters believe these reactionaries stand in the way of the progressive agenda to perfect America.

    I think you are completely wrong.

    They have no interest in creating a perfect America, at least not the way most Americans think of it.

    Their vision of a perfect America is an America that concerns itself with their interests and allows them to maintain control of the reins of power.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    I think most of them really buy into their bullshit. They believe that their political interests perfectly align with what's good for the country/world. Like the saying goes, a regular bully will leave you alone when he gets bored of tormenting you. A True Believer will keep on tormenting you because its For Your Own Good.
  50. OT,

    Hey Steve, your neighbor Elon Musk is importing cheap labor from eastern europe and paying them $5 an hour to build tesla factories.

    http://extras.mercurynews.com/silicon-valley-imported-labor/

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "OT,

    Hey Steve, your neighbor Elon Musk is importing cheap labor from eastern europe and paying them $5 an hour to build tesla factories."

    And we are always told that these new (so-called) "green" industries will bring good high-paying jobs. Yet another case of the globalist elite's fondness of what could be called the "Otter Doctrine": "You f**ked up, you trusted us!"
  51. @Ed
    Actually there is a whole confluence of hot button issues here, and Steve is being a bit snarky.

    First the federal government has done this before:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_Act_of_1949

    Now the result was to move white people from slums in the cities to the suburbs. Now that they are doing it with black people, everyone is going to be up in arms. But when you see behind the mythologizing, the purpose of the suburbs, ever since World War 2, has been to provide housing for people on the lower income side of the scale scale, as far as the federal government has been concerned. Granted the lower income whites moved out in the first waves of suburbanization became higher income for awhile, but those days are ending anyway.

    Of course the tool now is vouchers instead of subsidizing home construction, but then there already have been lots of houses built so the tools are different this time around. Also this is now a tool for desegregation, not segregation, but again this is perfectly consistent with the federal government's policies since the 1960s.

    Both suburbanization as an urban planning strategy, and even pushing desegregation of residential areas, can be questioned on various grounds. What I object to is that this is some sort of revolutionary thing the Obama administration is doing. Its the logical development of federal government policies that date back decades.

    That 1949 law was right at the start of an explosion in suburban housing supply. The highway system and suburban developments expanded in the 50s. The suburbs are mature now. Not the same thing.

  52. OT(?):
    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/How-bee-rampage-terrorized-neighborhood-killed-2-7470176.php

    The Concord beekeeper who set off an attack by a swarm of suspected “killer bees” over the weekend was an experienced hobbyist who had the beehives for 15 years and didn’t notice anything amiss with his honeybees until he tried to move the hives so his father could do some backyard landscaping.

    Nothing was out of the ordinary when Arthur Janke, 41, moved the first hive on Friday. But when he tried to move the second one, those bees went berserk, stinging him despite his bee suit, attacking his parents and rampaging out into the neighborhood around Hitchcock Road, stinging neighbors, passersby, a mail carrier and pets. Two dogs that were repeatedly stung died.

    The terrifying incident comes months after scientists confirmed that Africanized killer bees had migrated from Southern California and were in the Bay Area, at the edge of Briones Regional Park. If DNA tests confirm that the insects are Africanized bees, the incident would be the first known attack in the Bay Area by the invasive species, whose ominous movements northward have been documented for decades.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    I see what you did there!
    , @stillCARealist
    oh great. Bee-keeping has become quite a thing lately. Also keeping chickens in the backyard. What happens if those things become Africanized? Killer chickens on the loose! Run everybody!
  53. @Dave Pinsen
    The current policy, of subsidizing poverty in expensive cities, makes no sense, but this Obama initiative makes even less sense. At least if you live in a poor neighborhood in Brooklyn you can commute to a job at Starbucks in a more expensive part of town, and have a shot at applying for a decent-paying government job at the department of sanitation or something. In Westchester, your odds of getting either kind of job would be lower.

    In the suburbs, poor NAMs have to compete with middle class WAs for Starbucks jobs; in NYC, the middle class WAs are drawn to higher-end retail jobs, leaving more room for NAMs at big chains.

    A better idea would be to go in the opposite direction: base the Section 8 stipend on the national average. Then the poor would migrate to states with low costs of living, like Mississippi. Those states are also magnets for manufacturing, due to their low cost of living and lack of unions. Trump's trade policies would drive more manufacturing there.

    A reverse Great Migration since the “giant sucking sound” of NAFTA destroyed upward mobility for blacks North of the Mason Dixon line so go to the poorest part of America so the nice white folks up North don’t need to put up with you any longer. I’m sure that will take hold in Detroit.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    A reverse Great Migration since the “giant sucking sound” of NAFTA destroyed upward mobility for blacks North of the Mason Dixon line so go to the poorest part of America...
     
    Don't forget that NAFTA destroyed Mexican agriculture as well, so the unemployable campesinos are coming here from the opposite direction.

    American farmers made out like bandits, twice.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Detroit is dirt cheap these days. With a national average stipend, you could spend a fraction on rent and pocket the rest. This policy might lead to a population increase for Detroit.
  54. “move into areas that potentially have better access to jobs, transportation, services and educational opportunities.”

    If you are a city father in a suburb, you need to withdraw your jurisdiction from the regional transportation authority NOW. Towns that have bus service will be given extra Section 8 points because of their “access to transportation.”

  55. @Bannon
    This is one push I agree with, however flawed the rhetoric is. I believe geographic concentrations of subsidized housing (i.e. horrible neighborhoods) are the number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes. I'd like to see strategic dispersal and breakup -- not entire Fergusonvilles, but true dispersal. That is what has been missing in the urban centers of the North, Midwest, and the West. (The South developed in a different, non-urban way to begin with).

    However, it is not discrimination that resulted in "poor neighborhoods." There's going to need to be social change when people are relocated.

    Fortunately, after previous generations of left-wingers decried "consumer culture," technology has brought us lots of nifty things with monthly bills (smartphones, Netflix) that the masses want to buy and which require an address and regular bill-paying, so there will be a need to work for cash. Hopefully, the high tech cultures of the world can keep generating enough gadgets to make the rest of the world want to work and make an income.

    Spiritual beliefs aside ( they are important), the family is at its heart an economic unit. A unit of teamwork to get through life's basic needs. Wherever the family has broken down (usually because of government assistance), we should constantly churn and stimulate, regenerating somehow and hope to bring about new bonds of family. (Good luck, as these same Democrats hate the baggage of traditional family, despite its overwhelmingly obvious social benefits).

    ” I’d like to see strategic dispersal and breakup — not entire Fergusonvilles, but true dispersal.”

    A fine idea. How about 5 or 10 Section 8 houses in your ‘Hood. Where do you live?

  56. Also note that at the zip code level, subsidies are to be capped at 150% of the metro area’s average rent.

    So all the propaganda about moving Section 8ers to “wealthy” suburbs is a lie meant to sedate the true targets – the middle class.

    The wealthiest zips, where rent is >50% higher than the metro-area average, will still be able to price Section 8ers out of the market (and watch their property values soar even higher!).

    It’s the zip codes that are modestly above average that will get battered.

  57. @Bannon
    This is one push I agree with, however flawed the rhetoric is. I believe geographic concentrations of subsidized housing (i.e. horrible neighborhoods) are the number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes. I'd like to see strategic dispersal and breakup -- not entire Fergusonvilles, but true dispersal. That is what has been missing in the urban centers of the North, Midwest, and the West. (The South developed in a different, non-urban way to begin with).

    However, it is not discrimination that resulted in "poor neighborhoods." There's going to need to be social change when people are relocated.

    Fortunately, after previous generations of left-wingers decried "consumer culture," technology has brought us lots of nifty things with monthly bills (smartphones, Netflix) that the masses want to buy and which require an address and regular bill-paying, so there will be a need to work for cash. Hopefully, the high tech cultures of the world can keep generating enough gadgets to make the rest of the world want to work and make an income.

    Spiritual beliefs aside ( they are important), the family is at its heart an economic unit. A unit of teamwork to get through life's basic needs. Wherever the family has broken down (usually because of government assistance), we should constantly churn and stimulate, regenerating somehow and hope to bring about new bonds of family. (Good luck, as these same Democrats hate the baggage of traditional family, despite its overwhelmingly obvious social benefits).

    How about you tell us your address, so we can forward it to HUD, and they can send some poverty-dispersing cultural enrichment to your your neighborhood? Any rental houses on your street? For that matter, do you have a spare room? I’m sure you could put up a deserving family from the projects, and you can make a little money on the side.

    “Fortunately, after previous generations of left-wingers decried “consumer culture,” technology has brought us lots of nifty things with monthly bills (smartphones, Netflix) that the masses want to buy and which require an address and regular bill-paying, so there will be a need to work for cash.”

    And you are under the impression that many of these people don’t already have such gadgets?

  58. The suburbs are the U.S. government’s version of the coconut monkey trap. Middle class people reach in for 3+ bedrooms, a yard, decent schools, and (supposedly) leveraged asset appreciation. But, it wasn’t private enterprise that built all those roads out there. Once you’re there, you’re powerless, stuck with whatever the government’s whim is today.

    Rural people can be self-sufficient, and urban people can riot, but suburbanites have no recourse, no power against adverse political outcomes. That’s by design.

    • Replies: @Kaz
    Oh please. Rural people are SOL without the government. They have subsidized roads, subsidized postal service, subsidized water/electricity, emergency services, etc.. none of what they do is self-sustainable. We have thousands of lines of regulation which forces companies to give some bare service to rural areas.

    There are actually many suburbs in America that are privately incorporated.

    Come on, are you really saying people are destined to live like packed sardines in dense Urban areas?

    With the onset of self-driving cars rail service will further become economically non-viable.

    Roads are flexible and allow people a lot more freedom than billion dollar/mile rail service.
  59. @SFG
    Actually, when it comes to addiction they've shown moving is helpful. You lose all your old drug contacts and there's nobody to suck you back in. Not that it's infallible, but it has some positive effects.

    “Actually, when it comes to addiction they’ve shown moving is helpful. You lose all your old drug contacts and there’s nobody to suck you back in. Not that it’s infallible, but it has some positive effects.”

    What if the people doing the moving (or thier relations) are the old drug contacts?

  60. @George
    A Brooklyn NY real estate developer built an apartment complex in Wilkes Barre Pa. The genius part is he filled the Wilkes Barre apartment complex with section 8 renters from Brooklyn NY. I always wondered if they were from his own buildings in Brooklyn NY. This unleashed a crime wave in Wilkes Barre that was due in many cases to family members of the section 8 tenants traveling from Brooklyn NY to Wilkes Barre Pa often to elude law enforcement in Brooklyn NY.

    Owner of Sherman Hills Responds To Criticism About Crime

    http://wnep.com/2013/11/15/owner-of-sherman-hills-responds-to-criticism-about-crime/

    A possible connection with Obama is that he lives in Chicago IL which is trying to off load persons to Dubuque IA and Ypsilanti MI.

    Fair housing complaint filed against Ypsilanti Township
    http://michiganradio.org/post/fair-housing-complaint-filed-against-ypsilanti-township#stream/0

    This unleashed a crime wave in Wilkes Barre

    I was in Lancaster, PA recently. The downtown is pretty scary, aside from a few blocks of Amish-themed stuff.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "I was in Lancaster, PA recently. The downtown is pretty scary, aside from a few blocks of Amish-themed stuff."

    Truly, a strange confluence of cultures:

    Amish Paradise
    , @Jefferson
    "I was in Lancaster, PA recently. The downtown is pretty scary, aside from a few blocks of Amish-themed stuff."

    The problem with Lancaster, Pennsylvania is that 30 percent of the population there is Puerto Rican. And Boricuas turn Magic Dirt into Tragic Dirt.
    , @Bert
    Lancaster has been a shithole for ages, as has Harrisburg. Don't use them as a marker.
  61. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous
    Like a fool I thought that holding a job and making money to pay for rent and necessities were what I was supposed to do. Instead I should have applied for benefits and just sat on my rear end for years just waiting for my number to move up. Eventually I might have cashed in and ended up in some fancy housing better that what I was paying for and better than what a lot of white people are able to afford. Why didn't somebody take me in hand and tell me these things right at the outset? All I get is to pay for these fabulous blacks to roll around in luxury.

    The Masters of the Universe have a plan for a Universal Basic Income (UBI). The Fed creates money from thin air, buys government bonds with it and the government mails everyone a check. Big shots like Bill Gross are all for it since they know that mass unemployment is the future for the USA and they want to decouple income from meaningful work.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    The Masters of the Universe have a plan for a Universal Basic Income (UBI). The Fed creates money from thin air, buys government bonds with it and the government mails everyone a check. Big shots like Bill Gross are all for it since they know that mass unemployment is the future for the USA and they want to decouple income from meaningful work.
     
    You can sneer all you want, but it is a great idea. It should be limited to adult citizens, obviously, and it should replace all other welfare spending, but with those qualifications it's a God-send for the middle class.
  62. @asdfsdfd
    OT,

    Hey Steve, your neighbor Elon Musk is importing cheap labor from eastern europe and paying them $5 an hour to build tesla factories.

    http://extras.mercurynews.com/silicon-valley-imported-labor/

    “OT,

    Hey Steve, your neighbor Elon Musk is importing cheap labor from eastern europe and paying them $5 an hour to build tesla factories.”

    And we are always told that these new (so-called) “green” industries will bring good high-paying jobs. Yet another case of the globalist elite’s fondness of what could be called the “Otter Doctrine”: “You f**ked up, you trusted us!”

  63. @International Jew

    This unleashed a crime wave in Wilkes Barre
     
    I was in Lancaster, PA recently. The downtown is pretty scary, aside from a few blocks of Amish-themed stuff.

    “I was in Lancaster, PA recently. The downtown is pretty scary, aside from a few blocks of Amish-themed stuff.”

    Truly, a strange confluence of cultures:

    Amish Paradise

  64. @SFG
    Actually, when it comes to addiction they've shown moving is helpful. You lose all your old drug contacts and there's nobody to suck you back in. Not that it's infallible, but it has some positive effects.

    Nothing personal, SFG, but you clearly do not know what you are talking about in this case. Bugg, does. He was also talking about alcoholics, not drug addicts (not always the same thing). There are liquor stores/bars everywhere you go. You don’t need “contacts” to procure ‘ol John Barleycorn.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    My brother-in-law got a DUI right before he and my sister moved 100 miles away for her new job. He said leaving his old drinking buddies behind really helped him stay sober. He just hit his fifteenth year alcohol-free.

    Moving isn't a panacea for addiction but it certainly can help.

  65. @Louis Renault
    A reverse Great Migration since the "giant sucking sound" of NAFTA destroyed upward mobility for blacks North of the Mason Dixon line so go to the poorest part of America so the nice white folks up North don't need to put up with you any longer. I'm sure that will take hold in Detroit.

    A reverse Great Migration since the “giant sucking sound” of NAFTA destroyed upward mobility for blacks North of the Mason Dixon line so go to the poorest part of America…

    Don’t forget that NAFTA destroyed Mexican agriculture as well, so the unemployable campesinos are coming here from the opposite direction.

    American farmers made out like bandits, twice.

  66. @The Alarmist
    We've decided that the inner cities are actually where the criminal elite want to be, and to be left unmolested by the unwashed masses. Of course we are going to encourage them to move out to the burbs where they are no longer seen or heard. To


    "... move into areas that potentially have better access to jobs, transportation, services and educational opportunities."
     
    You're kidding, right? Aside from maids and gardeners being better located with respect to houses they serve, how are the suburban poor actually benefiting from being moved out to greener pastures?

    Idaho has a .9% black population. (Less than 1%)

  67. Kaz says:
    @vinny
    The suburbs are the U.S. government's version of the coconut monkey trap. Middle class people reach in for 3+ bedrooms, a yard, decent schools, and (supposedly) leveraged asset appreciation. But, it wasn't private enterprise that built all those roads out there. Once you're there, you're powerless, stuck with whatever the government's whim is today.

    Rural people can be self-sufficient, and urban people can riot, but suburbanites have no recourse, no power against adverse political outcomes. That's by design.

    Oh please. Rural people are SOL without the government. They have subsidized roads, subsidized postal service, subsidized water/electricity, emergency services, etc.. none of what they do is self-sustainable. We have thousands of lines of regulation which forces companies to give some bare service to rural areas.

    There are actually many suburbs in America that are privately incorporated.

    Come on, are you really saying people are destined to live like packed sardines in dense Urban areas?

    With the onset of self-driving cars rail service will further become economically non-viable.

    Roads are flexible and allow people a lot more freedom than billion dollar/mile rail service.

    • Replies: @Colleen Pater
    rural and suburban mean different things rural areas are self supporting one family on a square mile of land yield more taxes than the family consumes when that land starts to become bedroom communities of people expected the state to wipe their asses the tax increases drive rural people to ruin, i have watched this happen. Much of the infrastructure you mention was foisted on the communities for the governments benefit the rural electrification program subsidizes utilities to run electric out to the boonies for profit if a rural person wants it run to his actual house it costs them thousands even tens of thousands thus go to places like that and see how many are running their homes on car batteries charged by a generator. please you dont know wtf you are talking about. these places have no welfare free hospital care all the nigger benefits are not given to poor whites try walking out of a hospital without paying ina small town they will sue your ass and when you try medicaid they will tell you the $12 hr job and $175 wk unemployment over the winter disqualifies you, so your credit is ruined.People eat venison every day and burn wood for heat and work harder than you have ever seen a man work.Im sure you think this is myth from the 1940s but i live in an area like this and im proud to say those people would take welfare if it was offered which is the reason the politics of the area see that it isnt offered yeah sure they have the social service office cause thats the law but unlike cities that just ignore the law and give every slacker welfare these people wont
  68. Stan says:

    The returns on Prop 47, the product of compassionate liberalism, are in.

    Safeway, Target, Rite Aide and CVS say shoplifting has increased at least 15 percent, and in some cases, has doubled since voters approved Proposition 47, and preliminary FBI crime reports show a 12 percent spike in larceny-theft since the measure was passed. In spite of that, Public Policy Institute of California researcher Magnus Lofstrom says it’s too early to determine if those numbers had anything to do with Proposition 47.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    The Democratic Party certainly delivers for its constituents.

    Thanks for the mention; I hadn't even heard of this ballot initiative. I saw this little Orwellian fact on the wikipedia site about it: "The measure was also referred to by its supporters as the Safe Neighborhoods and Schools Act."

  69. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @MEH 0910
    OT(?):
    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/How-bee-rampage-terrorized-neighborhood-killed-2-7470176.php

    The Concord beekeeper who set off an attack by a swarm of suspected “killer bees” over the weekend was an experienced hobbyist who had the beehives for 15 years and didn’t notice anything amiss with his honeybees until he tried to move the hives so his father could do some backyard landscaping.

    Nothing was out of the ordinary when Arthur Janke, 41, moved the first hive on Friday. But when he tried to move the second one, those bees went berserk, stinging him despite his bee suit, attacking his parents and rampaging out into the neighborhood around Hitchcock Road, stinging neighbors, passersby, a mail carrier and pets. Two dogs that were repeatedly stung died.

    The terrifying incident comes months after scientists confirmed that Africanized killer bees had migrated from Southern California and were in the Bay Area, at the edge of Briones Regional Park. If DNA tests confirm that the insects are Africanized bees, the incident would be the first known attack in the Bay Area by the invasive species, whose ominous movements northward have been documented for decades.
     

    I see what you did there!

  70. @Bannon
    This is one push I agree with, however flawed the rhetoric is. I believe geographic concentrations of subsidized housing (i.e. horrible neighborhoods) are the number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes. I'd like to see strategic dispersal and breakup -- not entire Fergusonvilles, but true dispersal. That is what has been missing in the urban centers of the North, Midwest, and the West. (The South developed in a different, non-urban way to begin with).

    However, it is not discrimination that resulted in "poor neighborhoods." There's going to need to be social change when people are relocated.

    Fortunately, after previous generations of left-wingers decried "consumer culture," technology has brought us lots of nifty things with monthly bills (smartphones, Netflix) that the masses want to buy and which require an address and regular bill-paying, so there will be a need to work for cash. Hopefully, the high tech cultures of the world can keep generating enough gadgets to make the rest of the world want to work and make an income.

    Spiritual beliefs aside ( they are important), the family is at its heart an economic unit. A unit of teamwork to get through life's basic needs. Wherever the family has broken down (usually because of government assistance), we should constantly churn and stimulate, regenerating somehow and hope to bring about new bonds of family. (Good luck, as these same Democrats hate the baggage of traditional family, despite its overwhelmingly obvious social benefits).

    I believe geographic concentrations of subsidized housing (i.e. horrible neighborhoods) are the number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes.

    Take out the words “the number”, and I’d agree. Good design can do only so much, but bad design can pile the problems on.

    From the Wikipedia article on St Louis’s Pruitt-Igoe project:

    The initial proposal provided a mix of high-rise, mid-rise and walk-up buildings. It was acceptable to St. Louis authorities, but exceeded the federal cost limits imposed by the PHA; the agency intervened and imposed a uniform building height at 11 floors.

    The original design was recognizably human, and might have made a go of it. But the Corbusian scale of the final project couldn’t be saved by a populace of angels.

    It was also segregated until 1956; Pruitt for blacks, Igoe for whites. It does make one wonder what the place would have looked like had that held on for another decade.

    Imagine the World Trade Center (by the same architect, working within equally stupid constraints) all white in one building, all NAM in the other. I suspect there’d be tremendous pressure to keep the buildings looking roughly the same on the outside, with the general public banned from entering one of them.

  71. @Louis Renault
    A reverse Great Migration since the "giant sucking sound" of NAFTA destroyed upward mobility for blacks North of the Mason Dixon line so go to the poorest part of America so the nice white folks up North don't need to put up with you any longer. I'm sure that will take hold in Detroit.

    Detroit is dirt cheap these days. With a national average stipend, you could spend a fraction on rent and pocket the rest. This policy might lead to a population increase for Detroit.

  72. @newrouter
    this "problem" goes away if HUD and its money goes away. limited fed gov't does wonders for a society. is mr. trump interested in eliminating fed gov't bureau such as HUD? tell us trumpsters?

    Yeah, the article said the plan doesnt require Congressional approval. But of course it does require Congressional funding. GOP runs Congress. Anyone home there? HUD along with agencies like Dept of Education need to be defunded, because they allow the left to push an agenda without legislative approval. As for Trump, he might want to ask Hillary if she supports moving the dregs from Brooklyn to Chappaqua.

  73. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike Sylwester
    Has any of the electorate anywhere ever approved this program?

    Has Congress ever approved it?

    Trump ought to make an issue of it.

    Isn’t Trump’s real estate portfolio disproportionately urban. He would benefit from this policy if if pushed undesirables out of the cities and pressured well-off suburbanites to move into the cities. Of course one problem is that the well-off suburbanites won’t be so well off anymore after the value of their suburban houses goes down the drain.

  74. @The most deplorable one

    At least if you live in a poor neighborhood in Brooklyn you can commute to a job at Starbucks in a more expensive part of town, and have a shot at applying for a decent-paying government job at the department of sanitation or something.
     
    The reality is that they are likely using the subway and easy commute to get to affluent areas where they can steal shit to make a living.

    Moving them out to the suburbs is going to reduce the crime in those influential areas.

    The suburbs better organize if they want to stop this.

    Frank Herbert had a good idea.

    “Frank Herbert had a good idea.”

    I agree, but where are we going to find giant worms for the suburbanites turned suicide commandos to ride into the cities on?

  75. @Bannon
    This is one push I agree with, however flawed the rhetoric is. I believe geographic concentrations of subsidized housing (i.e. horrible neighborhoods) are the number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes. I'd like to see strategic dispersal and breakup -- not entire Fergusonvilles, but true dispersal. That is what has been missing in the urban centers of the North, Midwest, and the West. (The South developed in a different, non-urban way to begin with).

    However, it is not discrimination that resulted in "poor neighborhoods." There's going to need to be social change when people are relocated.

    Fortunately, after previous generations of left-wingers decried "consumer culture," technology has brought us lots of nifty things with monthly bills (smartphones, Netflix) that the masses want to buy and which require an address and regular bill-paying, so there will be a need to work for cash. Hopefully, the high tech cultures of the world can keep generating enough gadgets to make the rest of the world want to work and make an income.

    Spiritual beliefs aside ( they are important), the family is at its heart an economic unit. A unit of teamwork to get through life's basic needs. Wherever the family has broken down (usually because of government assistance), we should constantly churn and stimulate, regenerating somehow and hope to bring about new bonds of family. (Good luck, as these same Democrats hate the baggage of traditional family, despite its overwhelmingly obvious social benefits).

    Rubbish. The already well-documented experience with Section 8 vouchers is that the situations of the voucher recipients do not improve. All Section 8 does is take poverty and crime that was once concentrated and disperse it across a wider area. I’ve seen Section 8 lay waste to huge chunks of a city in the space of a few short years.

  76. @International Jew

    This unleashed a crime wave in Wilkes Barre
     
    I was in Lancaster, PA recently. The downtown is pretty scary, aside from a few blocks of Amish-themed stuff.

    “I was in Lancaster, PA recently. The downtown is pretty scary, aside from a few blocks of Amish-themed stuff.”

    The problem with Lancaster, Pennsylvania is that 30 percent of the population there is Puerto Rican. And Boricuas turn Magic Dirt into Tragic Dirt.

  77. Glossy says: • Website
    @JohnnyD
    I wonder how Trump will respond to this. Real estate, unlike foreign policy, is his area of expertise.

    Trump has the most sensible foreign policy of anyone who ran this year besides Rand Paul, and he has much more sensible domestic policies than Rand Paul did. The thing with Trump is that he doesn’t seem to have any areas of expertise, yet he gets the big picture right every time. I doubt he knows a lot of detail about the real estste business either. He’s not a details sort of guy by nature. He understands people intuitively, so he can BS them and cut through their BS. The latter ability is probably why he’s been able to see the political truths that others have missed.

  78. @The man from J.A.M.E.S.
    Off-topic, but I think this paper would be of great interest to Steve. Harvard economist George Borjas debunked the much-ballyhooed 1990 study that found that the Mariel Boatlift had no effect on wages last October:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20151007165844/http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/gborjas/publications/working%20papers/Mariel2015.pdf

    He covered this repeatedly.

  79. @International Jew

    This unleashed a crime wave in Wilkes Barre
     
    I was in Lancaster, PA recently. The downtown is pretty scary, aside from a few blocks of Amish-themed stuff.

    Lancaster has been a shithole for ages, as has Harrisburg. Don’t use them as a marker.

  80. There are a lot of Magic Moments going on in Magic Dirt.

    The good o’days of Magic Dirt, 1962 America.

  81. @newrouter
    this "problem" goes away if HUD and its money goes away. limited fed gov't does wonders for a society. is mr. trump interested in eliminating fed gov't bureau such as HUD? tell us trumpsters?

    this “problem” goes away if HUD and its money goes away. limited fed gov’t does wonders for a society. is mr. trump interested in eliminating fed gov’t bureau such as HUD? tell us trumpsters?

    Well we need to sell it by some kind of name the left can not refuse such as “Home Owners Protection Act” but it will be done.

  82. Josh says:
    @Ed
    Actually there is a whole confluence of hot button issues here, and Steve is being a bit snarky.

    First the federal government has done this before:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_Act_of_1949

    Now the result was to move white people from slums in the cities to the suburbs. Now that they are doing it with black people, everyone is going to be up in arms. But when you see behind the mythologizing, the purpose of the suburbs, ever since World War 2, has been to provide housing for people on the lower income side of the scale scale, as far as the federal government has been concerned. Granted the lower income whites moved out in the first waves of suburbanization became higher income for awhile, but those days are ending anyway.

    Of course the tool now is vouchers instead of subsidizing home construction, but then there already have been lots of houses built so the tools are different this time around. Also this is now a tool for desegregation, not segregation, but again this is perfectly consistent with the federal government's policies since the 1960s.

    Both suburbanization as an urban planning strategy, and even pushing desegregation of residential areas, can be questioned on various grounds. What I object to is that this is some sort of revolutionary thing the Obama administration is doing. Its the logical development of federal government policies that date back decades.

    It was desegregation even then. It was about breaking up the impenetrable Catholic ethnic communities so that they could be Americanized.

    Steve, you have mentioned urban Catholic ethnic communities a fair amount lately; have you read “the slaughter of cities: urban renewal as ethnic cleansing”? For my money, the best history of 20th century us domestic policy yet written. its very isteve.

  83. iSteve,

    What ever happened to the insight that the forced desegregation of the inner cities is a plan for Jewish developers to buy up the decaying inner cities at “fire-sale” prices, refurbish and renew them, and sell them to White “dinks” and “yuppies” at premium prices?

    There are billions to be made. Like the Jewish supported Immigration and Nationalization Act of 1965 and NAFTA, Section 8 is just another instance of legislation enabling massive social re-engineering to create government subsidized opportunities for arbitrage on an equally massive scale.

    The evidence:

    1. Obama and his administration are creatures of Wall Street. Like Bill and Hillary Clinton, they created him out of whole cloth. I’m sure that, like them, Obama is quietly anticipating a lifestyle of financially lucrative influence peddling after he leaves office (a.k.a. bribery American style).

    2. Section 8 objectives have no chance of success other than to drive Whites back to the cities where they will drive up the prices of housing and commercial real estate. As for the Blacks, as in Ferguson, they will destroy their new suburban neighborhoods and schools and find that their lives have not improved at all. The only thing that does make sense is the artificial creation of cycles of arbitrage on real estate prices at both ends. Indeed, once the new vibrant inner cities are in place, Wall Street can start the process all over again — Blacks forced back to the inner cities; Whites fleeing the inner cities for the suburbs.

    3. I used to work for a Jewish developer who made millions carving out shopping malls in the suburbs. He pressed a plan to completely redevelop the core of a major American city that required, as a practical matter, the type of population transfers described above. What he lacked at the time was a vehicle for that transfer. It appears that Section 8 can now do the trick for him and his friends.

    4. Jews are in the business of arbitrage. That is what they do from the time they entered European history in the dawn of the Middle Ages to the present. The only thing that has changed is the scale of that arbitrage as the opportunities expanded from the rural estates to the villages, from the villages to the new urban centers, between the empires and their colonies, between nation states, and now between continental-wide trading blocks on a global scale. With the deindustrialization of America, there is little left for arbitrage except artificially-driven real-estate cycles of “boom” and “bust”.

    4. Who … whom?

  84. @countenance
    FYI, I watched that legislation make its way through the General Assembly, and it is a mistake to call it a true constitutional carry bill. It is a loosening of rules, but not truly ConCarry, unless something changed drastically with the bill text in the last two weeks. Just as well, because I don't think ConCarry is a good idea in NAM-heavy states.

    I don’t think ConCarry is a good idea in NAM-heavy states.

    Prima facie plausible, but as far as I know it doesn’t seem to have made much of a difference one way or the other in e.g. Arizona (58% Hispanic according to Wikipedia, 30% according to Census Bureau) and too soon to tell or not NAM enough to be relevant everywhere else. I’d be interested to hear if you’ve seen anything to the contrary.

  85. @George
    A Brooklyn NY real estate developer built an apartment complex in Wilkes Barre Pa. The genius part is he filled the Wilkes Barre apartment complex with section 8 renters from Brooklyn NY. I always wondered if they were from his own buildings in Brooklyn NY. This unleashed a crime wave in Wilkes Barre that was due in many cases to family members of the section 8 tenants traveling from Brooklyn NY to Wilkes Barre Pa often to elude law enforcement in Brooklyn NY.

    Owner of Sherman Hills Responds To Criticism About Crime

    http://wnep.com/2013/11/15/owner-of-sherman-hills-responds-to-criticism-about-crime/

    A possible connection with Obama is that he lives in Chicago IL which is trying to off load persons to Dubuque IA and Ypsilanti MI.

    Fair housing complaint filed against Ypsilanti Township
    http://michiganradio.org/post/fair-housing-complaint-filed-against-ypsilanti-township#stream/0

    This in on top of the fact that Chicago has off loaded its public housing residents to Downstate Illinois cities for a decade and a half.

    • Replies: @Olorin
    Also to Milwaukee, Madison, Janesville, Kenosha, and other Wisconsin burgs.
  86. @Ed
    Actually there is a whole confluence of hot button issues here, and Steve is being a bit snarky.

    First the federal government has done this before:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_Act_of_1949

    Now the result was to move white people from slums in the cities to the suburbs. Now that they are doing it with black people, everyone is going to be up in arms. But when you see behind the mythologizing, the purpose of the suburbs, ever since World War 2, has been to provide housing for people on the lower income side of the scale scale, as far as the federal government has been concerned. Granted the lower income whites moved out in the first waves of suburbanization became higher income for awhile, but those days are ending anyway.

    Of course the tool now is vouchers instead of subsidizing home construction, but then there already have been lots of houses built so the tools are different this time around. Also this is now a tool for desegregation, not segregation, but again this is perfectly consistent with the federal government's policies since the 1960s.

    Both suburbanization as an urban planning strategy, and even pushing desegregation of residential areas, can be questioned on various grounds. What I object to is that this is some sort of revolutionary thing the Obama administration is doing. Its the logical development of federal government policies that date back decades.

    I thought the signature achievement of the 1949 act was the inner city Projects, which expanded the urban ghetto.

    The mortgage insurance part is still there, doing the same thing. Section “ate” is a step beyond that, with outright subsidies for people to move and live somewhere.

  87. Section 8 housing freeloaders in Bronx, New York, are now bitching that the “homeless poor” , who get double the subsidies for their apartments from the city of New York, are forcing them out.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-section-8-residents-talk-fears-forced-article-1.2637839

    http://www.wnyc.org/story/section-8-part-one/

  88. @Ed
    Actually there is a whole confluence of hot button issues here, and Steve is being a bit snarky.

    First the federal government has done this before:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_Act_of_1949

    Now the result was to move white people from slums in the cities to the suburbs. Now that they are doing it with black people, everyone is going to be up in arms. But when you see behind the mythologizing, the purpose of the suburbs, ever since World War 2, has been to provide housing for people on the lower income side of the scale scale, as far as the federal government has been concerned. Granted the lower income whites moved out in the first waves of suburbanization became higher income for awhile, but those days are ending anyway.

    Of course the tool now is vouchers instead of subsidizing home construction, but then there already have been lots of houses built so the tools are different this time around. Also this is now a tool for desegregation, not segregation, but again this is perfectly consistent with the federal government's policies since the 1960s.

    Both suburbanization as an urban planning strategy, and even pushing desegregation of residential areas, can be questioned on various grounds. What I object to is that this is some sort of revolutionary thing the Obama administration is doing. Its the logical development of federal government policies that date back decades.

    Could there be a reason people are up in arms in the black case? Are you not using “lower income side of the scale” to mean totally different things in the black white cases you compare with the phrase? Are not the “suburbs” you and steve talk about of an entirely different kind, or do you not know the difference between Westchester and Ferguson? Is there not a a difference between welfare rent vouchers targeted to destroy good neighborhoods and government backed mortgages for returning vets on former farmland? And are the benefits of those middle income whites that turned into higher income whites now declining, squandered by the whites or by the government suppressing wages with immigration and globalization projects and are now targeting the very highest bracket for the same? Of course its a new kind of thing its weaponized busing

  89. @SFG
    Actually, when it comes to addiction they've shown moving is helpful. You lose all your old drug contacts and there's nobody to suck you back in. Not that it's infallible, but it has some positive effects.

    You lose all your old drug contacts and there’s nobody to suck you back in.

    Drug users quickly reestablish new contacts. They recognize each other in a sort of drug user’s radar. If they’re looking it takes a day or so.

  90. @Kaz
    Oh please. Rural people are SOL without the government. They have subsidized roads, subsidized postal service, subsidized water/electricity, emergency services, etc.. none of what they do is self-sustainable. We have thousands of lines of regulation which forces companies to give some bare service to rural areas.

    There are actually many suburbs in America that are privately incorporated.

    Come on, are you really saying people are destined to live like packed sardines in dense Urban areas?

    With the onset of self-driving cars rail service will further become economically non-viable.

    Roads are flexible and allow people a lot more freedom than billion dollar/mile rail service.

    rural and suburban mean different things rural areas are self supporting one family on a square mile of land yield more taxes than the family consumes when that land starts to become bedroom communities of people expected the state to wipe their asses the tax increases drive rural people to ruin, i have watched this happen. Much of the infrastructure you mention was foisted on the communities for the governments benefit the rural electrification program subsidizes utilities to run electric out to the boonies for profit if a rural person wants it run to his actual house it costs them thousands even tens of thousands thus go to places like that and see how many are running their homes on car batteries charged by a generator. please you dont know wtf you are talking about. these places have no welfare free hospital care all the nigger benefits are not given to poor whites try walking out of a hospital without paying ina small town they will sue your ass and when you try medicaid they will tell you the $12 hr job and $175 wk unemployment over the winter disqualifies you, so your credit is ruined.People eat venison every day and burn wood for heat and work harder than you have ever seen a man work.Im sure you think this is myth from the 1940s but i live in an area like this and im proud to say those people would take welfare if it was offered which is the reason the politics of the area see that it isnt offered yeah sure they have the social service office cause thats the law but unlike cities that just ignore the law and give every slacker welfare these people wont

  91. @Bill Jones
    "b) Why force poor families to move when they don’t want to? This is about pushing families to leave their neighborhoods, not just enticing them."

    If you are dependent on the State, you belong to the State.
    Why should they have any say in the matter? It's the white guys who pay taxes who should decide- and they can't either.

    “It’s the white guys who pay taxes who should decide- and they can’t either.”

    Increasingly it is South and East Asians that are paying the bills.

    The White guys in Dubuque decided. They gave preference in Section 8 to persons from Dubuque. That made it difficult to move blacks from Chicago there. My guess is there are people in Dubuque who would like to operate the section 8 projects also. The number of blacks currently in Dubuque is hard to figure out, I see number from 1 to 4 percent on the Internet.

    With the looming pension collapse in Illinois I wonder if the situation there is hopeless and it would not be easier to gentrify Dubuque instead of Chicago.

  92. @The preferred nomenclature is...
    Nothing personal, SFG, but you clearly do not know what you are talking about in this case. Bugg, does. He was also talking about alcoholics, not drug addicts (not always the same thing). There are liquor stores/bars everywhere you go. You don't need "contacts" to procure 'ol John Barleycorn.

    My brother-in-law got a DUI right before he and my sister moved 100 miles away for her new job. He said leaving his old drinking buddies behind really helped him stay sober. He just hit his fifteenth year alcohol-free.

    Moving isn’t a panacea for addiction but it certainly can help.

    • Replies: @The preferred nomenclature is...
    Is your brother-in-law an alcoholic? If no his experience means nothing. If yes, how did he manage the 15 years? I would be curious to know. Thank you.
  93. @SFG
    I used to think that way as well. Problem is, you don't have enough whites (and Asians) anymore for dilution to work as a way to uplift everyone.

    SJW solution: import more Asians.

  94. OT: Merkel’s plan for the Muslimification of Germany also on track:

    German government creates online sex manual for immigrants

  95. @Lot
    Poor people impose negative externalities on those around them. It follows that they should live near as few people as possible. Within NYC, that means distant suburbs, not densely populated Brooklyn. Hoolian is doing the right thing, QED.

    Show us on the doll where the bad economically disadvantaged people touched you.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The wringing of the sweat started in 1913.

    The bread started flowing in 1929.
  96. @Svigor
    Churn, baby, churn!

    Always remember, Liberals Mean Well (thanks to whoever emphasized this in a recent comment). And if they can make a bunch of money in the deal, well, so what? And if it turns out that the same class that planned and executed this make a bunch of money out of the deal, but otherwise their plan doesn't turn out well, so what? They Meant Well, and that's what matters.

    So there gullible Trump supporters.
     
    If Trump voters are gullible, what are you Clinton voters? Insane? Nihilistic?

    If Trump voters are gullible, what are you Clinton voters? Insane? Nihilistic?

    Self hating… if white.

  97. @The most deplorable one

    He and all his liberal supporters believe these reactionaries stand in the way of the progressive agenda to perfect America.
     
    I think you are completely wrong.

    They have no interest in creating a perfect America, at least not the way most Americans think of it.

    Their vision of a perfect America is an America that concerns itself with their interests and allows them to maintain control of the reins of power.

    I think most of them really buy into their bullshit. They believe that their political interests perfectly align with what’s good for the country/world. Like the saying goes, a regular bully will leave you alone when he gets bored of tormenting you. A True Believer will keep on tormenting you because its For Your Own Good.

  98. Steve, to get to Brookly via subway, you have to ride along with annoying people of color, which is something no good liberal really wants to do. It makes perfect sense for the Dems to want to boost their numbers and donors in one of their own stronghholds while at the same time diluting the strength of the enemy in their teritory.

  99. @MEH 0910
    OT(?):
    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/How-bee-rampage-terrorized-neighborhood-killed-2-7470176.php

    The Concord beekeeper who set off an attack by a swarm of suspected “killer bees” over the weekend was an experienced hobbyist who had the beehives for 15 years and didn’t notice anything amiss with his honeybees until he tried to move the hives so his father could do some backyard landscaping.

    Nothing was out of the ordinary when Arthur Janke, 41, moved the first hive on Friday. But when he tried to move the second one, those bees went berserk, stinging him despite his bee suit, attacking his parents and rampaging out into the neighborhood around Hitchcock Road, stinging neighbors, passersby, a mail carrier and pets. Two dogs that were repeatedly stung died.

    The terrifying incident comes months after scientists confirmed that Africanized killer bees had migrated from Southern California and were in the Bay Area, at the edge of Briones Regional Park. If DNA tests confirm that the insects are Africanized bees, the incident would be the first known attack in the Bay Area by the invasive species, whose ominous movements northward have been documented for decades.
     

    oh great. Bee-keeping has become quite a thing lately. Also keeping chickens in the backyard. What happens if those things become Africanized? Killer chickens on the loose! Run everybody!

  100. AmericanaCON [AKA "Motorman"] says:

    The same thing is going on in Central Chicago. There is money to be made and so corporations and government have begun to work for gentrification. It is just the market which is moving. People have always segregated themselves (by choice or not) and poor will always live among poor just as rich will always live among rich. The problem here is that the Democratic Party is saying one thing (integration) and then does the opposite. I have a slight distaste for white upper-middle class people who argue for open borders and integration but do not want people of color in their neighborhood. I think the gentrification process is good because it forces the upper-middle class people to rethink their views. If one should built Social Housing it should always be built among the wealthy. They are the ones who argue for it to be built (and even profit from building it) and so they should also have these failed housing projects among themselves.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    People have always segregated themselves (by choice or not) and poor will always live among poor just as rich will always live among rich.
     
    No, the rich will always live among and surrounded by poor people. Being "rich" means having people working as cooks, waters, butlers, servants, drivers, maids, garbagemen, security, etc. for you. If all these people were rich, they would not be working as cooks or maids for other people. All these gentrifiers are not each going to have their own penthouses, because then they'd all be rich and there'd be nobody around to do all the service work for the rich.
  101. Would we really object if the feds used Section 8 to move as many poor blacks as possible to one big reservation in the middle of nowhere “far away from us”? Just give them a guaranteed poverty-level income and make them police themselves to the limited extend they’re capable. Sounds like a plan.

  102. @Lot
    Poor people impose negative externalities on those around them. It follows that they should live near as few people as possible. Within NYC, that means distant suburbs, not densely populated Brooklyn. Hoolian is doing the right thing, QED.

    Dear Lot,

    You are trolling, I presume, but the model here is of a pandemic: cities are at an equilibrium between ‘healthy’ and ‘infirmed’, but to free hospital space, they export some of their sick to nearby communities, thus blessing them with a contagion until the urban equilibrium is achieved. It is not a linear relationship with one person imposing a set cost; there is a multiplier you get with a reproducing social pathogen.

    • Replies: @Olorin
    Reproducing...and outright subsidizing.
  103. @Bannon
    This is one push I agree with, however flawed the rhetoric is. I believe geographic concentrations of subsidized housing (i.e. horrible neighborhoods) are the number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes. I'd like to see strategic dispersal and breakup -- not entire Fergusonvilles, but true dispersal. That is what has been missing in the urban centers of the North, Midwest, and the West. (The South developed in a different, non-urban way to begin with).

    However, it is not discrimination that resulted in "poor neighborhoods." There's going to need to be social change when people are relocated.

    Fortunately, after previous generations of left-wingers decried "consumer culture," technology has brought us lots of nifty things with monthly bills (smartphones, Netflix) that the masses want to buy and which require an address and regular bill-paying, so there will be a need to work for cash. Hopefully, the high tech cultures of the world can keep generating enough gadgets to make the rest of the world want to work and make an income.

    Spiritual beliefs aside ( they are important), the family is at its heart an economic unit. A unit of teamwork to get through life's basic needs. Wherever the family has broken down (usually because of government assistance), we should constantly churn and stimulate, regenerating somehow and hope to bring about new bonds of family. (Good luck, as these same Democrats hate the baggage of traditional family, despite its overwhelmingly obvious social benefits).

    This is one push I agree with, however flawed the rhetoric is. I believe geographic concentrations of subsidized housing (i.e. horrible neighborhoods) are the number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes.

    The “number one avoidable cause of poor social outcomes” is the subsidization of the procreation by people who don’t produce enough to take care of their children.

    • Agree: Triumph104
  104. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @AmericanaCON
    The same thing is going on in Central Chicago. There is money to be made and so corporations and government have begun to work for gentrification. It is just the market which is moving. People have always segregated themselves (by choice or not) and poor will always live among poor just as rich will always live among rich. The problem here is that the Democratic Party is saying one thing (integration) and then does the opposite. I have a slight distaste for white upper-middle class people who argue for open borders and integration but do not want people of color in their neighborhood. I think the gentrification process is good because it forces the upper-middle class people to rethink their views. If one should built Social Housing it should always be built among the wealthy. They are the ones who argue for it to be built (and even profit from building it) and so they should also have these failed housing projects among themselves.

    People have always segregated themselves (by choice or not) and poor will always live among poor just as rich will always live among rich.

    No, the rich will always live among and surrounded by poor people. Being “rich” means having people working as cooks, waters, butlers, servants, drivers, maids, garbagemen, security, etc. for you. If all these people were rich, they would not be working as cooks or maids for other people. All these gentrifiers are not each going to have their own penthouses, because then they’d all be rich and there’d be nobody around to do all the service work for the rich.

  105. @Anonymous
    The Masters of the Universe have a plan for a Universal Basic Income (UBI). The Fed creates money from thin air, buys government bonds with it and the government mails everyone a check. Big shots like Bill Gross are all for it since they know that mass unemployment is the future for the USA and they want to decouple income from meaningful work.

    The Masters of the Universe have a plan for a Universal Basic Income (UBI). The Fed creates money from thin air, buys government bonds with it and the government mails everyone a check. Big shots like Bill Gross are all for it since they know that mass unemployment is the future for the USA and they want to decouple income from meaningful work.

    You can sneer all you want, but it is a great idea. It should be limited to adult citizens, obviously, and it should replace all other welfare spending, but with those qualifications it’s a God-send for the middle class.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    UBI only works if you get rid of the millions of gov't employees that run the hundreds (thousands?) of welfare and other subsidy programs. Granted, there no more than a dozen big programs, but last count there were 63 federal gov't job training programs. There are something like 700 independent agencies. Government is just a giant con.

    In other words, at bottom, government is a jobs program for adults--successful outcomes from doling out welfare is an accident.
    , @bomag

    it is a great idea. It should be limited to adult citizens, obviously
     
    It most assuredly won't be limited. That is the problem of our age: things are given away until the enterprise collapses.

    Printed money is still backstopped by the rather productive US economy. But inflation is still the thing that will eventually end the plan. As Greenspan said, "we can guarantee an amount, but we can't guarantee spending power."
  106. @AndrewR
    Show us on the doll where the bad economically disadvantaged people touched you.

    The wringing of the sweat started in 1913.

    The bread started flowing in 1929.

  107. @MQ
    The effects of this are going to be complex since many urban zip codes have already fully gentrified, while many suburban areas are already turning into poor areas. E.g. in Washington DC the effect of this will be to raise the subsidy for black families moving to Northwest Washington, an all-white area full of million dollar houses, and lower the subsidy for black families moving to suburban Prince George's county, which is majority black.

    I cannot wait to see if Fairfax County Virginia just outside Washington DC become recipients of this. There are wealthy venues there, they are newly liberal, I want them to get in on some of the Dindu presence. McLean, Vienna, Tyson’s Corner, Fairfax City, these are wealthy areas with million dollar averages in single family homes. Folks that haven’t seen a Black face their whole lives will taste diversity.

    And they deserve it. And so do their children.

  108. @AndrewR
    My brother-in-law got a DUI right before he and my sister moved 100 miles away for her new job. He said leaving his old drinking buddies behind really helped him stay sober. He just hit his fifteenth year alcohol-free.

    Moving isn't a panacea for addiction but it certainly can help.

    Is your brother-in-law an alcoholic? If no his experience means nothing. If yes, how did he manage the 15 years? I would be curious to know. Thank you.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Obviously, yes. He considers himself to be unable to drink in moderation, hence the complete sobriety.

    Weed and nicotine probably helped. He tried quitting both of those too but that didn't work. Then he developed chronic pain and got a med card, and now he smokes e-cigs.
  109. @Glossy
    who choose to stay in housing in poor urban areas, such as Brooklyn.

    This is hilarious. I live in Brooklyn. Parts of it are wealthy, parts of it are middle class, but even the Black parts aren't really all that poor or scary-looking. This is because most of the Blacks are from the Caribbean.

    But for whatever reason the government wants the gentrification trend to continue, so its representstives say such silly things as the above to justify it.

    The Blacks in New York are convinced that gentrification is anti-Black. Steve has quoted Spike Lee on that subject, but I've heard many, many Blacks, mostly co-workers, talk about it in person. But here is the Obama administration planning to help gentrification along. Why? Is Obama unaware of what Blacks generally think about this? There's been gentrification in Chicago, he must know what the Black sentiment about it was there. Did someone besides him set this policy while he was golfing, playing parcheesi or watching basketball? I'm going to guess the latter.

    My feelings:

    It's good for the city. It would be weird to root against the place one calls home. But I do feel for suburban homeowners. These are not the kind of Blacks that were portrayed on The Wire, but still, the home values will fall.

    These are not the kind of Blacks that were portrayed on The Wire, but still, the home values will fall.

    Well, it would help close the black-white wealth gap.

    The New York Times did a story on people who have been priced out of their childhood neighborhoods in Brooklyn. About half identified as Caribbean descent.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/realestate/priced-out-of-my-childhood-home.html?_r=0

    Speaking of The Wire, the actor Wendell Pierce was arrested this weekend. He is a Hillary Clinton supporter and supposedly disagreed with and attacked a woman who is a Bernie Sanders supporter.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/16/woman-told-police-wendell-pierce-tried-to-enter-her-hotel-room.html

  110. @Somedude
    Old conventional wisdom: The suburbs are a byproduct of dumb housing policy. The suburbs are soul-deadening. The suburbs are bad. The suburbs are finished.

    New conventional wisdom: We must move the underprivileged to the suburbs.

    Only a few years ago the prog-left reformers were urging development of higher density cities for the critical mass of infrastructure, jobs, etc.–that suburbs were inefficient and a waste of resources.

  111. @ben tillman

    The Masters of the Universe have a plan for a Universal Basic Income (UBI). The Fed creates money from thin air, buys government bonds with it and the government mails everyone a check. Big shots like Bill Gross are all for it since they know that mass unemployment is the future for the USA and they want to decouple income from meaningful work.
     
    You can sneer all you want, but it is a great idea. It should be limited to adult citizens, obviously, and it should replace all other welfare spending, but with those qualifications it's a God-send for the middle class.

    UBI only works if you get rid of the millions of gov’t employees that run the hundreds (thousands?) of welfare and other subsidy programs. Granted, there no more than a dozen big programs, but last count there were 63 federal gov’t job training programs. There are something like 700 independent agencies. Government is just a giant con.

    In other words, at bottom, government is a jobs program for adults–successful outcomes from doling out welfare is an accident.

  112. Due to our increasing population and increasing gentrification of middle and lower income neighborhoods in many cities, rents are going up above the rate of inflation and wage increases for a lot of people who don’t earn much money or who are handicapped, etc.

    Is the federal government going to allocate a lot more money for Section 8?

    If not, then they will have to reduce the number of Section 8 vouchers, if the cost per apartment for many apartment greatly increases for them.

    We really have a housing crisis in the US and it’s only going to get worse.

    How can HUD volunteer to pay a lot more for some people’s apartments when so many people who qualify never get a Section 8 voucher in the first place? Now they want to REDUCE the number of vouchers?

    This does not compute.

  113. @The Alarmist
    We've decided that the inner cities are actually where the criminal elite want to be, and to be left unmolested by the unwashed masses. Of course we are going to encourage them to move out to the burbs where they are no longer seen or heard. To


    "... move into areas that potentially have better access to jobs, transportation, services and educational opportunities."
     
    You're kidding, right? Aside from maids and gardeners being better located with respect to houses they serve, how are the suburban poor actually benefiting from being moved out to greener pastures?

    By not having to live among as many other poor people.

  114. @Stan
    The returns on Prop 47, the product of compassionate liberalism, are in.

    Safeway, Target, Rite Aide and CVS say shoplifting has increased at least 15 percent, and in some cases, has doubled since voters approved Proposition 47, and preliminary FBI crime reports show a 12 percent spike in larceny-theft since the measure was passed. In spite of that, Public Policy Institute of California researcher Magnus Lofstrom says it's too early to determine if those numbers had anything to do with Proposition 47.

    The Democratic Party certainly delivers for its constituents.

    Thanks for the mention; I hadn’t even heard of this ballot initiative. I saw this little Orwellian fact on the wikipedia site about it: “The measure was also referred to by its supporters as the Safe Neighborhoods and Schools Act.”

  115. A 1979 documentary about Tragic Dirt in the South Bronx.

  116. @ben tillman

    The Masters of the Universe have a plan for a Universal Basic Income (UBI). The Fed creates money from thin air, buys government bonds with it and the government mails everyone a check. Big shots like Bill Gross are all for it since they know that mass unemployment is the future for the USA and they want to decouple income from meaningful work.
     
    You can sneer all you want, but it is a great idea. It should be limited to adult citizens, obviously, and it should replace all other welfare spending, but with those qualifications it's a God-send for the middle class.

    it is a great idea. It should be limited to adult citizens, obviously

    It most assuredly won’t be limited. That is the problem of our age: things are given away until the enterprise collapses.

    Printed money is still backstopped by the rather productive US economy. But inflation is still the thing that will eventually end the plan. As Greenspan said, “we can guarantee an amount, but we can’t guarantee spending power.”

  117. When the Democratic Machine in New Jersey decided to replace the housing projects in New Brunswick with expensive condos for yuppies (the city is located on the Northeast Corridor train line between New York City and Philadelphia and has a train station), they moved the welfare recipients to a garden apartment complex that is literally located in the middle of a marsh with no public transportation and not within walking distance of just about anything. Do a Google Maps search for “winding woods apartments, sayreville, nj” and look at the aerial view. They also turned a quiet and affordable complex into a crime hotspot.

    They don’t care about the poor for anything but votes.

  118. @The preferred nomenclature is...
    Is your brother-in-law an alcoholic? If no his experience means nothing. If yes, how did he manage the 15 years? I would be curious to know. Thank you.

    Obviously, yes. He considers himself to be unable to drink in moderation, hence the complete sobriety.

    Weed and nicotine probably helped. He tried quitting both of those too but that didn’t work. Then he developed chronic pain and got a med card, and now he smokes e-cigs.

  119. @George
    A Brooklyn NY real estate developer built an apartment complex in Wilkes Barre Pa. The genius part is he filled the Wilkes Barre apartment complex with section 8 renters from Brooklyn NY. I always wondered if they were from his own buildings in Brooklyn NY. This unleashed a crime wave in Wilkes Barre that was due in many cases to family members of the section 8 tenants traveling from Brooklyn NY to Wilkes Barre Pa often to elude law enforcement in Brooklyn NY.

    Owner of Sherman Hills Responds To Criticism About Crime

    http://wnep.com/2013/11/15/owner-of-sherman-hills-responds-to-criticism-about-crime/

    A possible connection with Obama is that he lives in Chicago IL which is trying to off load persons to Dubuque IA and Ypsilanti MI.

    Fair housing complaint filed against Ypsilanti Township
    http://michiganradio.org/post/fair-housing-complaint-filed-against-ypsilanti-township#stream/0

    Wilkes-Barre. That’s the town where Joe Biden’s dad’s people (Robinette) were so big before the family hit hard times, IIRC.

    The spokesbot for the Sherman Hills complex is one Sam Gold, n.b.

    During the interview, Gold would not say how much money was invested, or how many Section 8 properties that Park Management Inc. owns or operates.

    Gold also told Newswatch 16 that Pennsylvania gun control laws are too lax, explaining that the company doesn’t have many problems with guns at their properties in Brooklyn,

    Lends a whole new layer to “cash for guns,” nu?

    Brooklyn. That’s the borough from whence Bernie Sanders and Jane O’Meara Driscoll Sanders hailed. Before they both white flighted to Vermont (separately) and availed themselves of the goyische charms of Burlington.

  120. “Savvy” Hasidic Williamsburg Families Hold A Bulk Of Section 8 Vouchers

    Lol! No ethnic nepotism HERE!

    http://gothamist.com/2016/05/17/hasidic_wburg_section_8.php

  121. The nypost.com article sounds like a Sailer article! Sailer didn’t even quote the juicy parts. Wow!!!! Wow!!:

    … A recent study linked Dubuque’s crime wave directly to Section 8 housing.

    Of course, even when reality mugs leftists, they never scrap their social theories. They just double down.

  122. @Mike Zwick
    This in on top of the fact that Chicago has off loaded its public housing residents to Downstate Illinois cities for a decade and a half.

    Also to Milwaukee, Madison, Janesville, Kenosha, and other Wisconsin burgs.

  123. @bomag
    Dear Lot,

    You are trolling, I presume, but the model here is of a pandemic: cities are at an equilibrium between 'healthy' and 'infirmed', but to free hospital space, they export some of their sick to nearby communities, thus blessing them with a contagion until the urban equilibrium is achieved. It is not a linear relationship with one person imposing a set cost; there is a multiplier you get with a reproducing social pathogen.

    Reproducing…and outright subsidizing.

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