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Obama Administration Refuses to Reveal H-1B Sex Breakdown
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My wife’s friend A., a mainframe programmer, got a new job recently after she’d been out of work for half a decade. She’s legally blind and deaf (although not Helen Keller levels) so she’s not a high draft pick, but back before H-1B got fully cranked up, she worked steadily for two decades. Of course, bringing in a whole bunch of Pakistani men on H-1Bs over the years didn’t exactly make the workplace a less harassing environment for a blonde.

But that’s not the point, the point is that the Real Enemy of American women is Haven Monahan.

From Computerworld:

How many H-1B workers are female? U.S. won’t say

Government resistance to releasing H-1B gender data frustrates advocates

By Sharon Machlis and Patrick Thibodeau
Computerworld | Apr 1, 2016 3:02 AM PT

When the U.S. begins accepting applications for new H-1B skilled-worker visas today, we can be certain that tech workers from India will make up a large portion of the requests.

What we probably won’t know, though, is how many of those applicants are female.

While program data shows which job categories, countries and companies are awarded the most visas, the federal government says it is not tracking applicants’ gender — although the question is asked on the visa application form. The U.S. begins accepting H-1B visa applications on April 1 for the fiscal year that begins Oct. 1.

The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS) will not release the gender data. It has rejected a Senate request for the information, as well as public records requests from the IEEE-USA and Computerworld.

“No H-1B visa should ever be issued to an unidentified person — and you can’t know who a person is without knowing their gender,” said Peter Eckstein, the president of the IEEE-USA.

If the USCIS “doesn’t know by now, it’s because they don’t want to know how bad it is,” said Eckstein, regarding the gender of H-1B workers.

The IEEE believes a high percentage are male.

Gender information about H-1B visa holders, critics say, could answer some questions about the program’s impact on the workforce.

The Anita Borg Institute, which advocates for women in technology, believes “it would be very helpful to have better data on the gender diversity of H-1B visa recipients,” Telle Whitney, the president and CEO of the institute, said in an email.

“Our anecdotal experience is that most H-1B visa recipients are men and that this can have a negative impact on increasing the participation of women in the technical workforce,” said Whitney. “It is likely that this also negatively impacts underrepresented minorities.”

… In 2013, Karen Panetta, a professor of electrical and computer engineering at Tufts University who was representing the IEEE-USA, testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee and told it that as many as 85% of the visa holders are men.

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), who has unsuccessfully sought information about the gender of H-1B workers, cited Panetta’s testimony in seeking an amendment to the 2013 Senate comprehensive immigration reform bill.

Grassley’s amendment prohibited all employers from displacing women 180 days before or after they apply for a foreign worker. The amendment failed, although the comprehensive bill passed the Senate. It was not taken up by the House.

Gender data is a curious omission considering U.S. government initiatives such as TechWomen, which is aimed at supporting “women in leaders in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) from Africa, Central Asia and the Middle East”. And, there’s also the Office of Science and Technology Policy’s stated aim of “increasing the participation of women and girls — as well as other underrepresented groups — in the fields of science, technology, engineering and mathematics.”

Computerworld filed a FOIA request for H-1B gender data last year and was told that providing such information would be “unreasonably burdensome.”

“In order to determine the gender of H-1B applicants, USCIS staff would have to manually search each applicant’s immigration file, an unreasonably burdensome and costly requirement because it would require agency personnel to request, ship and manually review thousands of immigration files,” wrote Alan D. Hughes, associate counsel at the Commercial and Administration Law Division of the Department of Homeland Security Citizenship and Immigration Services in denying Computerworld’s appeal to receive gender data.

True, but I’ve heard of this breakthrough device called a computer. You can have somebody program it to count up what percentage of the programmers the U.S. government is inviting in from the Subcontinent are male.

In other words: The government chooses to keep track of applicants’ country of origin but not their gender.

 
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  1. Of course, bringing in a whole bunch of Pakistani men on H-1Bs over the years didn’t exactly make the workplace a less harassing environment for a blonde.

    Also, presumably her sense of smell is a lot stronger than most people. She probably suffered especially from olfactory harassment.

    • Agree: Travis
  2. What does it matter in this day and age?

    Just mark them all down as ‘fluid’.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon



    Obama Administration Refuses to Reveal H-1B Sex Breakdown
     
    What does it matter in this day and age?

    Just mark them all down as ‘fluid’.
     
    Talk about "sex breakdown"!
  3. Steve you should make a hierarchy of revealed SJW pieties. Obviously the immigration piety trumps feminism. I can’t keep track of all this bullshit without a program!

    Also kind of frustrating how the circular firing squad never seems to lead to any casualties. The (presumably feminist) apparatchiks dutifully report that jeez statistics for this just would be cost prohibitive to compute. It’s insane.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @415 reasons

    http://therightstuff.biz/2014/10/23/white-women-can-no-longer-experience-rape/

  4. “bringing in a whole bunch of Pakistani men on H-1Bs over the years didn’t exactly make the workplace a less harassing environment for a blonde.”

    Are you serious? Microaggressions for me but not for thee? Women techies complaining about sexist white men are nothing but grifters but women complaining about hostile workplaces full of immigrants are the real deal?

    • Replies: @gruff
    @Vinay

    Try googling the concept of irony. Steve's good at it.

    Somewhat OnT: according to this piece I stumbled on, a child born in India cannot get citizenship if ONE parent is an illegal immigrant: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ticking-time-bomb-assam-final-count-illegal-chaitanya-kalbag

    Replies: @Vinay

  5. Incidentally, a real Haven Monahan at Stanford recently got convicted for rape at a frat party. He’s blond and his name is even “Brock”:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/stanford-swimmer-brock-turner-guilty-rape-article-1.2584416

    • Replies: @Erik L
    @Anonymous

    You name a kid Brock, what do you expect?

  6. @Vinay
    "bringing in a whole bunch of Pakistani men on H-1Bs over the years didn’t exactly make the workplace a less harassing environment for a blonde."

    Are you serious? Microaggressions for me but not for thee? Women techies complaining about sexist white men are nothing but grifters but women complaining about hostile workplaces full of immigrants are the real deal?

    Replies: @gruff

    Try googling the concept of irony. Steve’s good at it.

    Somewhat OnT: according to this piece I stumbled on, a child born in India cannot get citizenship if ONE parent is an illegal immigrant: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ticking-time-bomb-assam-final-count-illegal-chaitanya-kalbag

    • Replies: @Vinay
    @gruff

    "Somewhat OnT: according to this piece I stumbled on, a child born in India cannot get citizenship if ONE parent is an illegal immigrant"

    And you expect me to say...what? That the US has the right to do the same thing? Sure if you really want to.

    By the way, if you really want to understand the situation in India, imagine that a few hundred thousand Mexicans migrated to Hawaii, causing native Hawaiians to launch a violent protest movement. And then the Feds intervene and reach some sort of accord but now they have to figure out what to do with all the migrants and their kids. And sending them back is not a realistic option (which is the situation in India).

    Now, a few hundred thousand Mexicans are a drop in the bucket when compared to the total US population but they would be a huge deal for Hawaii. And the Feds would find it very awkward to lecture local Hawaiians on the proper attitude towards migrants. It wouldn't really be an abstract question of how America, as a whole, should deal with illegal immigration.

  7. ==QUOTE==
    Gender data is a curious omission considering U.S. government initiatives such as TechWomen, which is aimed at supporting “women in [sic] leaders in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) from Africa, Central Asia and the Middle East”.
    ==UNQUOTE==

    Notice something peculiar in that quote?
    Yes, it’s the strange emphasis on people from Central Asia.
    Not East Asia (Chinese, Japanese, Korean), not West Asia (Iraq, Iran, Israel), not South Asia (India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka), but specifically Central Asia. This hints at a demand for high-tech ethnics like Uzbek, Tajik, and other intelligent mixed-ethnicity individuals described with five letters ending in K.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spock

  8. The percentage of women among H-1B visa holders is definitely much lower than 50, but even then, I would bet it’s an order of magnitude higher than the percentage of women within the native-born American workforce. I don’t know why that is; perhaps the persistent ridicule of nerds in American culture has something to do with it. Speaking for India, at least, IT and other office work (like call center operations) are considered to be well-suited for women. Walk into any such workplace in India and you’ll see about as many women as men; it’s a huge difference from what you’d see walking in the corridors of an American tech company. Graduate students in the higher-ranked engineering programs (especially computer science) also tend to be overwhelmingly male; the only females I found in the program I attended were foreigners. So if many of the H-1B visas go to these foreign students, the result is likely to be gender-skewed.

    And I echo Vinay’s point above: it’s rich to blame foreign workers of misogyny (or whatever it is you blame them for) when you and your commentariat ridicule the same women for criticizing the overwhelmingly male composition of native-born STEM workers.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Numinous

    Nothing weird about it, though.

    Nerds are losers because they do the work for the rest of us. Why would white women, the greatest material prize in world history (to borrow a phrase), voluntarily slave for others when they are what everyone else is striving to obtain?

    people act like this is some accident of history or culture. It's not. Working for other people makes you a loser. White American women are not losers and they don't respect losers.

    Replies: @Jefferson

    , @SFG
    @Numinous

    I think one of the reasons is in poor countries, women are more likely to do something like engineering that pays well because they need the money. In rich countries they're more free to follow their natural inclinations into interpretive dance.

    This is not my idea but I can't find the study now.

    Replies: @Anon7

    , @bomag
    @Numinous


    And I echo Vinay’s point above
     
    It is not the all male aspect of the H1s; it is that the same bureaucracy that tabulates gender in all other categories and props up Hillary as needed to club down White males steps out in this area because the holiness of immigrants transcends the need to apply the rules to them.
    , @AndrewR
    @Numinous

    Observant people ridicule feminists for criticizing the number of women in ST (there's no shortage in E or M) because these feminists tend to be liberal arts majors who avoided math and science due to the difficulty and are just hitching their wagons to the ST cause in order to increase their political and cultural power as shrill, ignorant, irrational feminists.

    , @anowow
    @Numinous

    Right,

    because there are no cultural differences or expectations which will influence behavior.

    If you are looking for autistic devotion to unreal, "transcendent" principles you should go to reason.com or maybe NRO.

    , @Anon
    @Numinous

    "it’s rich to blame foreign workers of misogyny"

    My observation is they tend to be less of a problem to US women simply by being cultural outsiders. Also, being intelligent, they would know (or would have been well tutored by HR) all about our gender politics, sexual harassment laws and other PC/SJW crap. If anything, they try to maintain a matter of fact business friendly attitude without getting sucked into US social or political noise. Any fraternization would be obviously among their own, so why should they risk trouble getting close to locals?

    This is exactly the same attitude of US expats when they go to live/work in exotic locales like China, Japan, Africa, India etc., In fact some PC guy even ridiculed it by writing a book called "Ugly American" or some such thing. So it is time he rewrote the book again and call it "Ugly H1B - the foreigner too uppity for our tastes".

    , @ben tillman
    @Numinous


    And I echo Vinay’s point above: it’s rich to blame foreign workers of misogyny (or whatever it is you blame them for) when you and your commentariat ridicule the same women for criticizing the overwhelmingly male composition of native-born STEM workers.
     
    What "same women"? And what ridicule? No one here ridicules "women" for complaining about anything; we object to our rulers enforcing stupid dictates based on falsehoods. Women are only tangentially connected to the process.
  9. Two words. Anchor babies.

  10. The article describes a Congressional “request” for information. Has Grassley asked the Judiciary Committee for a subpoena? The options for an agency confronted with a subpoena are limited. Of course, in this era of Obama and congressional wusses, I expect that the agency will just defy the subpoena without consequences: genuine congressional oversight is oh-so-Democratic!

  11. of course nyt just couldnt notice israels gross treatment of pal terrs and their families. i guess blood runs thicker than liberalism

  12. How about looking at a sample of visa applications, say 1000, and calculating the percentage of those that are male? If selected at random, there’s roughly a 99.9% chance that the calculated result will be within 5% of the true ratio. Or very roughly, a 90% chance of being within 2.5% of the true ratio. It depends on the ratio.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @David

    An understanding of basic statistics is probably a liability to career success in the government.

    , @jimmyriddle
    @David

    Or get someone to do a one-line SQL query and get the actual number.

    Replies: @anon

  13. “But that’s not the point, the point is that the Real Enemy of American women is Haven Monahan.”

    Haven Monahan is the Babe Ruth of rapists. He is a legend in the rapist community.

  14. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Numinous
    The percentage of women among H-1B visa holders is definitely much lower than 50, but even then, I would bet it's an order of magnitude higher than the percentage of women within the native-born American workforce. I don't know why that is; perhaps the persistent ridicule of nerds in American culture has something to do with it. Speaking for India, at least, IT and other office work (like call center operations) are considered to be well-suited for women. Walk into any such workplace in India and you'll see about as many women as men; it's a huge difference from what you'd see walking in the corridors of an American tech company. Graduate students in the higher-ranked engineering programs (especially computer science) also tend to be overwhelmingly male; the only females I found in the program I attended were foreigners. So if many of the H-1B visas go to these foreign students, the result is likely to be gender-skewed.

    And I echo Vinay's point above: it's rich to blame foreign workers of misogyny (or whatever it is you blame them for) when you and your commentariat ridicule the same women for criticizing the overwhelmingly male composition of native-born STEM workers.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @bomag, @AndrewR, @anowow, @Anon, @ben tillman

    Nothing weird about it, though.

    Nerds are losers because they do the work for the rest of us. Why would white women, the greatest material prize in world history (to borrow a phrase), voluntarily slave for others when they are what everyone else is striving to obtain?

    people act like this is some accident of history or culture. It’s not. Working for other people makes you a loser. White American women are not losers and they don’t respect losers.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @Anonymous

    "White American women are not losers and they don’t respect losers."

    Plenty of White American women are losers. Like the ones who date broke Black men that can not provide them financial security. They get impregnated by these deadbeats who walk out on them and do not pay child support because they are too broke. Single White mothers of Mulatto babies are losers 9 times out of 10, unless they were impregnated by a multi-millionaire NBA player for example.

  15. Yeah. Machlis and Thibodeau… 2 families that came over on the Mayflower.

  16. @Numinous
    The percentage of women among H-1B visa holders is definitely much lower than 50, but even then, I would bet it's an order of magnitude higher than the percentage of women within the native-born American workforce. I don't know why that is; perhaps the persistent ridicule of nerds in American culture has something to do with it. Speaking for India, at least, IT and other office work (like call center operations) are considered to be well-suited for women. Walk into any such workplace in India and you'll see about as many women as men; it's a huge difference from what you'd see walking in the corridors of an American tech company. Graduate students in the higher-ranked engineering programs (especially computer science) also tend to be overwhelmingly male; the only females I found in the program I attended were foreigners. So if many of the H-1B visas go to these foreign students, the result is likely to be gender-skewed.

    And I echo Vinay's point above: it's rich to blame foreign workers of misogyny (or whatever it is you blame them for) when you and your commentariat ridicule the same women for criticizing the overwhelmingly male composition of native-born STEM workers.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @bomag, @AndrewR, @anowow, @Anon, @ben tillman

    I think one of the reasons is in poor countries, women are more likely to do something like engineering that pays well because they need the money. In rich countries they’re more free to follow their natural inclinations into interpretive dance.

    This is not my idea but I can’t find the study now.

    • Replies: @Anon7
    @SFG

    Start at about 5:30. Or watch the whole thing, it's one of a series of short films by a comedian that brought down (defunded) the Gender Studies Institute in Norway.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=tiJVJ5QRRUE

    The name of the woman who wrote the study is Camilla Schreiner.

    Replies: @TangoMan

  17. @gruff
    @Vinay

    Try googling the concept of irony. Steve's good at it.

    Somewhat OnT: according to this piece I stumbled on, a child born in India cannot get citizenship if ONE parent is an illegal immigrant: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ticking-time-bomb-assam-final-count-illegal-chaitanya-kalbag

    Replies: @Vinay

    “Somewhat OnT: according to this piece I stumbled on, a child born in India cannot get citizenship if ONE parent is an illegal immigrant”

    And you expect me to say…what? That the US has the right to do the same thing? Sure if you really want to.

    By the way, if you really want to understand the situation in India, imagine that a few hundred thousand Mexicans migrated to Hawaii, causing native Hawaiians to launch a violent protest movement. And then the Feds intervene and reach some sort of accord but now they have to figure out what to do with all the migrants and their kids. And sending them back is not a realistic option (which is the situation in India).

    Now, a few hundred thousand Mexicans are a drop in the bucket when compared to the total US population but they would be a huge deal for Hawaii. And the Feds would find it very awkward to lecture local Hawaiians on the proper attitude towards migrants. It wouldn’t really be an abstract question of how America, as a whole, should deal with illegal immigration.

  18. @Numinous
    The percentage of women among H-1B visa holders is definitely much lower than 50, but even then, I would bet it's an order of magnitude higher than the percentage of women within the native-born American workforce. I don't know why that is; perhaps the persistent ridicule of nerds in American culture has something to do with it. Speaking for India, at least, IT and other office work (like call center operations) are considered to be well-suited for women. Walk into any such workplace in India and you'll see about as many women as men; it's a huge difference from what you'd see walking in the corridors of an American tech company. Graduate students in the higher-ranked engineering programs (especially computer science) also tend to be overwhelmingly male; the only females I found in the program I attended were foreigners. So if many of the H-1B visas go to these foreign students, the result is likely to be gender-skewed.

    And I echo Vinay's point above: it's rich to blame foreign workers of misogyny (or whatever it is you blame them for) when you and your commentariat ridicule the same women for criticizing the overwhelmingly male composition of native-born STEM workers.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @bomag, @AndrewR, @anowow, @Anon, @ben tillman

    And I echo Vinay’s point above

    It is not the all male aspect of the H1s; it is that the same bureaucracy that tabulates gender in all other categories and props up Hillary as needed to club down White males steps out in this area because the holiness of immigrants transcends the need to apply the rules to them.

  19. So the government can track every detail about a citizen’s life indefinitely but it can’t develop a program to keep track of the gender of immigrants.

  20. @David
    How about looking at a sample of visa applications, say 1000, and calculating the percentage of those that are male? If selected at random, there's roughly a 99.9% chance that the calculated result will be within 5% of the true ratio. Or very roughly, a 90% chance of being within 2.5% of the true ratio. It depends on the ratio.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @jimmyriddle

    An understanding of basic statistics is probably a liability to career success in the government.

  21. @Numinous
    The percentage of women among H-1B visa holders is definitely much lower than 50, but even then, I would bet it's an order of magnitude higher than the percentage of women within the native-born American workforce. I don't know why that is; perhaps the persistent ridicule of nerds in American culture has something to do with it. Speaking for India, at least, IT and other office work (like call center operations) are considered to be well-suited for women. Walk into any such workplace in India and you'll see about as many women as men; it's a huge difference from what you'd see walking in the corridors of an American tech company. Graduate students in the higher-ranked engineering programs (especially computer science) also tend to be overwhelmingly male; the only females I found in the program I attended were foreigners. So if many of the H-1B visas go to these foreign students, the result is likely to be gender-skewed.

    And I echo Vinay's point above: it's rich to blame foreign workers of misogyny (or whatever it is you blame them for) when you and your commentariat ridicule the same women for criticizing the overwhelmingly male composition of native-born STEM workers.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @bomag, @AndrewR, @anowow, @Anon, @ben tillman

    Observant people ridicule feminists for criticizing the number of women in ST (there’s no shortage in E or M) because these feminists tend to be liberal arts majors who avoided math and science due to the difficulty and are just hitching their wagons to the ST cause in order to increase their political and cultural power as shrill, ignorant, irrational feminists.

  22. My only personal observation of this was when my company hired dozens of Indian programmers to upgrade our systems in preparation for the widely predicted Y2K crisis. Virtually all of them were women.

  23. As with any government database, the fact that some easy information is unavailable can be assumed to mean that the results would be what we presume they would be from their absence. It seems everyone reading this presumes the lack of H1B demographic data by sex is due to the fact they would show a tremendous male bias. I remember back in the 90s we got told we were switching to some FBI crime stat form; a three-page form was replaced with a much longer form that asked all sorts of demographic data on crime suspects. Yet race was strangely absent from an otherwise comprehensive questionnaire – transparently so the government would be unable to produce such data if asked.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Drakejax

    I remember back in the 90s we got told we were switching to some FBI crime stat form; a three-page form was replaced with a much longer form that asked all sorts of demographic data on crime suspects. Yet race was strangely absent from an otherwise comprehensive questionnaire

    In a past job, I once had to run a database report on the criminal histories of a bunch of Africans (i.e. born in Africa, but arrested in the US). At time of arrest, all the subjects were coded in the database as race = black. A few years later, the DOJ changed the race of all these Africans to African-American. Of course, they're not African-Americans, they're African-Africans. Some clerk must have been instructed to run an automated script to globally change all "black" to the more PC "African-American."

  24. @415 reasons
    Steve you should make a hierarchy of revealed SJW pieties. Obviously the immigration piety trumps feminism. I can't keep track of all this bullshit without a program!

    Also kind of frustrating how the circular firing squad never seems to lead to any casualties. The (presumably feminist) apparatchiks dutifully report that jeez statistics for this just would be cost prohibitive to compute. It's insane.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  25. as many as 85% of the visa holders are men

    Clearly, there is an urgent need to import a lot more female Pakistani programmers.

  26. gender is a social construct. just randomly assign a sex to each data point. easy peasy.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @let it burn


    gender is a social construct. just randomly assign a sex to each data point. easy peasy.
     
    Gender isn't even a social construct. It's a wholly linguistic one.

    Just adding a -chen, the German cognate of our -kin, will neuter you. Sorry, Dr Sowell, sometimes reality is optional.
  27. @Numinous
    The percentage of women among H-1B visa holders is definitely much lower than 50, but even then, I would bet it's an order of magnitude higher than the percentage of women within the native-born American workforce. I don't know why that is; perhaps the persistent ridicule of nerds in American culture has something to do with it. Speaking for India, at least, IT and other office work (like call center operations) are considered to be well-suited for women. Walk into any such workplace in India and you'll see about as many women as men; it's a huge difference from what you'd see walking in the corridors of an American tech company. Graduate students in the higher-ranked engineering programs (especially computer science) also tend to be overwhelmingly male; the only females I found in the program I attended were foreigners. So if many of the H-1B visas go to these foreign students, the result is likely to be gender-skewed.

    And I echo Vinay's point above: it's rich to blame foreign workers of misogyny (or whatever it is you blame them for) when you and your commentariat ridicule the same women for criticizing the overwhelmingly male composition of native-born STEM workers.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @bomag, @AndrewR, @anowow, @Anon, @ben tillman

    Right,

    because there are no cultural differences or expectations which will influence behavior.

    If you are looking for autistic devotion to unreal, “transcendent” principles you should go to reason.com or maybe NRO.

  28. @Anon
    What does it matter in this day and age?

    Just mark them all down as 'fluid'.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDAU3SPYFsA

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Obama Administration Refuses to Reveal H-1B Sex Breakdown

    What does it matter in this day and age?

    Just mark them all down as ‘fluid’.

    Talk about “sex breakdown”!

  29. @let it burn
    gender is a social construct. just randomly assign a sex to each data point. easy peasy.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    gender is a social construct. just randomly assign a sex to each data point. easy peasy.

    Gender isn’t even a social construct. It’s a wholly linguistic one.

    Just adding a -chen, the German cognate of our -kin, will neuter you. Sorry, Dr Sowell, sometimes reality is optional.

  30. The statistics about foreign-born people in US prisons should be made available to the public.

    • Agree: E. Rekshun
  31. @Anonymous
    Incidentally, a real Haven Monahan at Stanford recently got convicted for rape at a frat party. He's blond and his name is even "Brock":

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/stanford-swimmer-brock-turner-guilty-rape-article-1.2584416

    Replies: @Erik L

    You name a kid Brock, what do you expect?

  32. @SFG
    @Numinous

    I think one of the reasons is in poor countries, women are more likely to do something like engineering that pays well because they need the money. In rich countries they're more free to follow their natural inclinations into interpretive dance.

    This is not my idea but I can't find the study now.

    Replies: @Anon7

    Start at about 5:30. Or watch the whole thing, it’s one of a series of short films by a comedian that brought down (defunded) the Gender Studies Institute in Norway.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=tiJVJ5QRRUE

    The name of the woman who wrote the study is Camilla Schreiner.

    • Replies: @TangoMan
    @Anon7

    The host passed up a golden opportunity to hang the creationists by their own petard. He should have asked them if they supported gender conditioning sessions for transsexuals who believe that they are women so that they could be trained to become men again. They could take a stand and declare that transsexuals are not born the wrong gender because there is no basis for that belief. Then we could watch all of the fireworks and pogroms begin as these "bigots" were hounded out of their careers.

  33. Interesting point about the culture and sexual harassment. I have a friend, a blond Russian girl, who works for a giant Silicon Valley company. Every so often she tells me a new story about some coworker demanding blow jobs from her. As she tells the story I’m picturing an awkward white nerd or a middle aged balding white manager type. Inevitably it turns out to be an Indian dude. I never thought of those guys as being that way. Maybe there is something about different rules for women inside your group vs outside.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Erik L

    Indian convenience store and gas station clerks in the US are notorious for aggressive sexual advances towards female customers.

    Replies: @E. Rekshun

  34. There is no contradiction here. Feminism is nothing more than the HATE HATE HATE of the 90% of men who are not Alpha males. Simple as that. Feminists are the equivalent of drunken frat boys screaming “no fat chicks.” Who have the excuse of youth and booze. Most White women have feminist sympathies, any attractive woman hates and loathes beta males who have the temerity to ask them out for coffee in elevators, and other hateful things that are defined as “rape.” [No, I’m not kidding, asking a woman out when she does not want to be asked out is defined by the Obama Administration as rape/sexual assault. Men have to be astute mindreaders, or at least PUA Alpha males]

    Women have embraced the strategy of the late Ricardo Montalban in “Wrath of Khan” blowing themselves up to get their real enemy — men who are not sexy and of their race. That’s why Haven Monaghan hit such a nerve. White women WANTED him to be real, because they HATE HATE HATE the lack of sexy dominance a-holeness in their male cohort peers.

    Sure turn STEM into an Indian sexist hellhole, taking men from a society where women are actually raped and murdered on buses when unprotected by enough male relatives. Its all good to get their real enemy: beta males.

    Addendum — Steve’s friend got hired BECAUSE of AA — disability is a plus for any big employer and being a woman and disabled ticks two boxes. Three if she can fake lesbianism.

    White men have the disadvantage of no boxes and having a negative score just for existing.

    • Replies: @E. Rekshun
    @Whiskey

    Steve’s friend got hired BECAUSE of AA — disability is a plus for any big employer and being a woman and disabled ticks two boxes. Three if she can fake lesbianism.

    Last week, my boss (a reasonably competent, accomplished, fair-minded, 57 y/o, White female) hired a new mid-level staffer. She extemporaneously let out her satisfaction by claiming, "hey, we tic two boxes with her!" (black + female).

  35. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Numinous
    The percentage of women among H-1B visa holders is definitely much lower than 50, but even then, I would bet it's an order of magnitude higher than the percentage of women within the native-born American workforce. I don't know why that is; perhaps the persistent ridicule of nerds in American culture has something to do with it. Speaking for India, at least, IT and other office work (like call center operations) are considered to be well-suited for women. Walk into any such workplace in India and you'll see about as many women as men; it's a huge difference from what you'd see walking in the corridors of an American tech company. Graduate students in the higher-ranked engineering programs (especially computer science) also tend to be overwhelmingly male; the only females I found in the program I attended were foreigners. So if many of the H-1B visas go to these foreign students, the result is likely to be gender-skewed.

    And I echo Vinay's point above: it's rich to blame foreign workers of misogyny (or whatever it is you blame them for) when you and your commentariat ridicule the same women for criticizing the overwhelmingly male composition of native-born STEM workers.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @bomag, @AndrewR, @anowow, @Anon, @ben tillman

    “it’s rich to blame foreign workers of misogyny”

    My observation is they tend to be less of a problem to US women simply by being cultural outsiders. Also, being intelligent, they would know (or would have been well tutored by HR) all about our gender politics, sexual harassment laws and other PC/SJW crap. If anything, they try to maintain a matter of fact business friendly attitude without getting sucked into US social or political noise. Any fraternization would be obviously among their own, so why should they risk trouble getting close to locals?

    This is exactly the same attitude of US expats when they go to live/work in exotic locales like China, Japan, Africa, India etc., In fact some PC guy even ridiculed it by writing a book called “Ugly American” or some such thing. So it is time he rewrote the book again and call it “Ugly H1B – the foreigner too uppity for our tastes”.

  36. Related OT: Women’s soccer pay problem now resolved. Women agreed to a defined compensation agreement that pays off regardless of how well they do, but the men negotiated for a pay-for-play system that pays substantially more if they win.

    Once again, women’s pay is based on their choices, which are shaped by women’s need for security. Their current complaints show another female trait – insisting on having it both ways.

    http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2016/04/01/u-s-soccer-fires-back-womens-claims/

    • Replies: @NOTA
    @Anon7

    But I thought the womens' team won more than the mens' team. If so, how is that a good deal for the women?

    Replies: @Anonymous

  37. @Anon7
    Related OT: Women's soccer pay problem now resolved. Women agreed to a defined compensation agreement that pays off regardless of how well they do, but the men negotiated for a pay-for-play system that pays substantially more if they win.

    Once again, women's pay is based on their choices, which are shaped by women's need for security. Their current complaints show another female trait - insisting on having it both ways.

    http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2016/04/01/u-s-soccer-fires-back-womens-claims/

    Replies: @NOTA

    But I thought the womens’ team won more than the mens’ team. If so, how is that a good deal for the women?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @NOTA

    Put yourself in the shoes of the average woman. Obviously, in the female and male populations there will always be outliers, but for the sake of the argument, think about the *average* woman. She values security more than the possibility of fortune.

    So many (but not all) women would rather make $50,000 a year, no matter how well or badly they perform at their jobs, whereas many (but not all) men would rather make $0 if they do badly and $100,000 if they do well.

  38. Some interesting info here about the numbers of H1B visas that also relates to gender:

    http://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/why-fashion-models-are-twice-as-likely-to-get-h1b-visas-as-computer-programmers.html

  39. @Erik L
    Interesting point about the culture and sexual harassment. I have a friend, a blond Russian girl, who works for a giant Silicon Valley company. Every so often she tells me a new story about some coworker demanding blow jobs from her. As she tells the story I'm picturing an awkward white nerd or a middle aged balding white manager type. Inevitably it turns out to be an Indian dude. I never thought of those guys as being that way. Maybe there is something about different rules for women inside your group vs outside.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Indian convenience store and gas station clerks in the US are notorious for aggressive sexual advances towards female customers.

    • Replies: @E. Rekshun
    @Anonymous

    Indian [& Pakistani] convenience store and gas station clerks in the US are notorious for aggressive sexual advances towards female customers.

    They're also notorious for EBT scams and not paying FICA and sales tax.

  40. The angle I thought of when I read this story is that the immigration and H-1B gluttons are trying to muddle and confuse the issue with social justice rhetoric.

  41. @Anon7
    @SFG

    Start at about 5:30. Or watch the whole thing, it's one of a series of short films by a comedian that brought down (defunded) the Gender Studies Institute in Norway.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=tiJVJ5QRRUE

    The name of the woman who wrote the study is Camilla Schreiner.

    Replies: @TangoMan

    The host passed up a golden opportunity to hang the creationists by their own petard. He should have asked them if they supported gender conditioning sessions for transsexuals who believe that they are women so that they could be trained to become men again. They could take a stand and declare that transsexuals are not born the wrong gender because there is no basis for that belief. Then we could watch all of the fireworks and pogroms begin as these “bigots” were hounded out of their careers.

  42. @Anonymous
    @Numinous

    Nothing weird about it, though.

    Nerds are losers because they do the work for the rest of us. Why would white women, the greatest material prize in world history (to borrow a phrase), voluntarily slave for others when they are what everyone else is striving to obtain?

    people act like this is some accident of history or culture. It's not. Working for other people makes you a loser. White American women are not losers and they don't respect losers.

    Replies: @Jefferson

    “White American women are not losers and they don’t respect losers.”

    Plenty of White American women are losers. Like the ones who date broke Black men that can not provide them financial security. They get impregnated by these deadbeats who walk out on them and do not pay child support because they are too broke. Single White mothers of Mulatto babies are losers 9 times out of 10, unless they were impregnated by a multi-millionaire NBA player for example.

  43. What’s going to even out the sex ratio is if our government decides to let the wives of H1Bs work. They’ll do QA for the most part — still a decent foot in the door for Americans wishing to switch careers but lacking an engineering degree. And soon, no more.

  44. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “…when you and your commentariat ridicule the same women for criticizing the overwhelmingly male composition of native-born STEM workers.”

    No, they’re not the “same women”. There are women who seem bitter at white men and blame them for everything and then there are women who are programmers. (There are also immigrants who seem bitter at white men and blame them for everything…)

    Decades ago, before things like the H1-B, there were plenty of competent women programmers, working for computer companies, etc.. (I was there. Heck there are competent female programmers in silicon valley today; I’ve known a number. I’ve also known a number of uncompetent female programmers.)

    But now-days not that many historic-nation American women seem to even want to enter programming. One theory as to why so few American women now go into programming is because they take one look at the inside of a programming class; look down the IT hall during bring-your-daughter-to-work-day; or hang around a campus job-fair that is computer-oriented; and what they see is a population of mostly 3rd world men. They just don’t want to be there.

    It’s also obvious that they are potentially going to be competing with practically the entire population of the planet in a death-march race to the bottom. Why would this be good for them? They aren’t stupid women…

    Any discussion about American white women and programming has to deal with this, or it’s not an honest discussion.

    • Replies: @anon
    @anonymous

    It may also be due to change in technology. Decades ago, programmers used to write stuff like:

    PROCEDURE DIVISION.
    Begin.
    DISPLAY "Enter student details using template below".
    DISPLAY "Enter - ID,Surname,Initials,CourseCode,Gender"
    DISPLAY "SSSSSSSNNNNNNNNIICCCCG".
    ACCEPT StudentDetails.
    ACCEPT CurrentDate FROM DATE YYYYMMDD.
    ACCEPT DayOfYear FROM DAY YYYYDDD.
    ACCEPT CurrentTime FROM TIME.
    DISPLAY "Name is ", Initials SPACE Surname.
    DISPLAY "Date is " CurrentDay SPACE CurrentMonth SPACE CurrentYear.
    DISPLAY "Today is day " YearDay " of the year".
    DISPLAY "The time is " CurrentHour ":" CurrentMinute.
    STOP RUN.

    Today, they write stuff like:

    class SimpleGeneric{

    //declaration of object type T
    private T objReff = null;

    //constructor to accept type parameter T
    public SimpleGeneric(T param){
    this.objReff = param;
    }

    public T getObjReff(){
    return this.objReff;
    }

    //this method prints the holding parameter type
    public void printType(){
    System.out.println("Type: "+objReff.getClass().getName());
    }
    }

    which appears a bit harder.

    , @E. Rekshun
    @anonymous

    Decades ago, before things like the H1-B, there were plenty of competent women programmers...But now-days not that many historic-nation American women seem to even want to enter programming.

    When I did my B.S. Computer Science in the early-to-mid '80s, 40% of my major was female. Fifteen years later, 5% of my grad school Computer Science classes were female (and none of them were American-born).

    One theory as to why so few American women now go into programming...they see is a population of mostly 3rd world men. They just don’t want to be there.

    Yes, that and all American college women are getting siphoned off into law, medicine, accounting, teaching, and nursing.

    Replies: @anon

    , @Anonymous
    @anonymous

    There don't seem to be many women in IT in Australia or Europe either:

    http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/software-engineer/it-gender-gap-where-are-the-female-programmers/


    In Australia in 1994, 22% of IT graduates were female; by 1998, only 19% of IT graduates were female.
    Western European countries show females as being less represented in the ranks of computing undergraduates (Germany: 10.5% in 2000, United Kingdom: 19% in 1999, Netherlands: 6.6% in 1999) than in the United States (26.7% in 1998); Northern Europeans (Norway, Sweden, etc.) show the same or more women graduates (Sweden: 30% in 2000, Norway: 23.2% in 1999) as a percentage than the United States for the same years (26.7%).
     
    Though this data is old, but presumably there would have been less IT insourcing then than there is now, if European countries do significant IT insourcing.

    Replies: @anon

  45. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “What’s going to even out the sex ratio is if our government decides to let the wives of H1Bs work.”

    I haven’t been following that closely. Didn’t wives of H1-Bs already get the right to work in the US?

    “H-1B Visa Update: Spouses to Be Allowed to Work in U.S.”, The Wall Street Journal, Laura Meckler, Feb 25, 2015:

    “…It was one of the few things the administration said was legally doable for high-tech businesses without cooperation from Congress.”

    Ah. This law only effect H1-Bs who are working toward green cards. (Do almost all _want_ to be?)

    “…The change affects certain people with H-4 dependent spouse visas whose mates are seeking employment-based lawful permanent residence status, also known as a green card. …

    …government estimates that as many as 179,600 people will be eligible to apply for employment authorization in the first year, and 55,000 annually in subsequent years.

    …makes perfect sense,” León Rodríguez, director of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, said in a statement. …

    …tech-backed pro-immigration lobby group… “Today’s good news… allowing spouses of certain workers to put their education, training and talents to work in the country they love and call home… stuck in the green card backlog who desperately need relief.”…”

    • Replies: @Anon7
    @anonymous

    This is a very interesting point, depending on how Indian men choose to marry. In some cases, the men want to marry a woman who also has a career - and so if she can also work, that means you're letting in two workers with one visa.

    On the other hand, in old-fashioned families, the parents choose a wife for the son in accordance with their tradition of aged parents living in their son's household. By choosing their son's wife, they're choosing their future cook and caretaker. So, a visa brings in only one worker, but possibly dependent parents.

    I suppose I should add that sometimes Indian husbands take an active hand in finding work for their wives. When hiring a regular babysitter for my young kids many years ago, I encountered a VERY insistent Indian man who was determined that his wife would work for us. I never even spoke with his wife. I eventually hired a nice college girl (American).

    Better to take Trump's suggestion of hiring Americans first and foremost, allowing corporations to hire from abroad only under heavy constraints, if at all.

  46. @David
    How about looking at a sample of visa applications, say 1000, and calculating the percentage of those that are male? If selected at random, there's roughly a 99.9% chance that the calculated result will be within 5% of the true ratio. Or very roughly, a 90% chance of being within 2.5% of the true ratio. It depends on the ratio.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @jimmyriddle

    Or get someone to do a one-line SQL query and get the actual number.

    • Replies: @anon
    @jimmyriddle

    That data is not computerized; The counsel said they have to ship paper files from world over and have eyeballs scan them for data. USCIS (like much of government) IT is third world level. Healthcare.gov website fiasco is the rule not an exception. Only IRS seems halfway decent in being able to pull in taxes!

  47. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @jimmyriddle
    @David

    Or get someone to do a one-line SQL query and get the actual number.

    Replies: @anon

    That data is not computerized; The counsel said they have to ship paper files from world over and have eyeballs scan them for data. USCIS (like much of government) IT is third world level. Healthcare.gov website fiasco is the rule not an exception. Only IRS seems halfway decent in being able to pull in taxes!

  48. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous
    "...when you and your commentariat ridicule the same women for criticizing the overwhelmingly male composition of native-born STEM workers."

    No, they're not the "same women". There are women who seem bitter at white men and blame them for everything and then there are women who are programmers. (There are also immigrants who seem bitter at white men and blame them for everything...)

    Decades ago, before things like the H1-B, there were plenty of competent women programmers, working for computer companies, etc.. (I was there. Heck there are competent female programmers in silicon valley today; I've known a number. I've also known a number of uncompetent female programmers.)

    But now-days not that many historic-nation American women seem to even want to enter programming. One theory as to why so few American women now go into programming is because they take one look at the inside of a programming class; look down the IT hall during bring-your-daughter-to-work-day; or hang around a campus job-fair that is computer-oriented; and what they see is a population of mostly 3rd world men. They just don't want to be there.

    It's also obvious that they are potentially going to be competing with practically the entire population of the planet in a death-march race to the bottom. Why would this be good for them? They aren't stupid women...

    Any discussion about American white women and programming has to deal with this, or it's not an honest discussion.

    Replies: @anon, @E. Rekshun, @Anonymous

    It may also be due to change in technology. Decades ago, programmers used to write stuff like:

    PROCEDURE DIVISION.
    Begin.
    DISPLAY “Enter student details using template below”.
    DISPLAY “Enter – ID,Surname,Initials,CourseCode,Gender”
    DISPLAY “SSSSSSSNNNNNNNNIICCCCG”.
    ACCEPT StudentDetails.
    ACCEPT CurrentDate FROM DATE YYYYMMDD.
    ACCEPT DayOfYear FROM DAY YYYYDDD.
    ACCEPT CurrentTime FROM TIME.
    DISPLAY “Name is “, Initials SPACE Surname.
    DISPLAY “Date is ” CurrentDay SPACE CurrentMonth SPACE CurrentYear.
    DISPLAY “Today is day ” YearDay ” of the year”.
    DISPLAY “The time is ” CurrentHour “:” CurrentMinute.
    STOP RUN.

    Today, they write stuff like:

    class SimpleGeneric{

    //declaration of object type T
    private T objReff = null;

    //constructor to accept type parameter T
    public SimpleGeneric(T param){
    this.objReff = param;
    }

    public T getObjReff(){
    return this.objReff;
    }

    //this method prints the holding parameter type
    public void printType(){
    System.out.println(“Type: “+objReff.getClass().getName());
    }
    }

    which appears a bit harder.

  49. Think of the Computer and Mathematical jobs as a barrel that holds 3.8 million people or gallons of water.

    Now add on average 132,000 gallons of water to that barrel each year .

    Those who meet the “caste” requirements, if any are added to the barrel which forces out the lesser skilled and older workers.

    After those are filled, then you have those that believe if you are over 35 to 45 in the tech industry, you are too old, so the younger ones will get the jobs that are remaining which forces out the lesser skilled and older workers once more.

    Of course, all of this is null and void when “caste” is the determining factor and since we are allowing “caste” to be used in America, this is also forcing out our younger graduates as well.

    Those who are ill informed will say that the job market is not finite to which I will respond, the data links are in this article.

    Do your own research and prove it.

    http://keepamericaatwork.com/what-will-your-children-do-if-they-cannot-find-jobs-in-america/

  50. The gender imbalance in immigration, especially illegal immigration , is responsible for a lot of sexual violence and predation particularly as it relates to forcing girls/women into prostitution to satisfy supply and demand.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @anon

    Higher female to male ratios tend to produce greater percentages of women in prostitution.

    Replies: @anon

    , @unpc downunder
    @anon

    Good point, I'm surprised Trump hasn't made this argument (it might boost his support with women!) It should also be pointed out to the liberal anti-slavery movement.

    Bring in lots men from the third/second world, and significant numbers of young women (and a few trannies and rent boys) from the third world/second world will also be smuggled in to service them.

  51. @anonymous
    "What’s going to even out the sex ratio is if our government decides to let the wives of H1Bs work."

    I haven't been following that closely. Didn't wives of H1-Bs already get the right to work in the US?

    "H-1B Visa Update: Spouses to Be Allowed to Work in U.S.", The Wall Street Journal, Laura Meckler, Feb 25, 2015:


    "...It was one of the few things the administration said was legally doable for high-tech businesses without cooperation from Congress."

     

    Ah. This law only effect H1-Bs who are working toward green cards. (Do almost all _want_ to be?)


    "...The change affects certain people with H-4 dependent spouse visas whose mates are seeking employment-based lawful permanent residence status, also known as a green card. ...

    ...government estimates that as many as 179,600 people will be eligible to apply for employment authorization in the first year, and 55,000 annually in subsequent years.

    ...makes perfect sense,” León Rodríguez, director of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, said in a statement. ...

    ...tech-backed pro-immigration lobby group... “Today’s good news... allowing spouses of certain workers to put their education, training and talents to work in the country they love and call home... stuck in the green card backlog who desperately need relief.”..."

     

    Replies: @Anon7

    This is a very interesting point, depending on how Indian men choose to marry. In some cases, the men want to marry a woman who also has a career – and so if she can also work, that means you’re letting in two workers with one visa.

    On the other hand, in old-fashioned families, the parents choose a wife for the son in accordance with their tradition of aged parents living in their son’s household. By choosing their son’s wife, they’re choosing their future cook and caretaker. So, a visa brings in only one worker, but possibly dependent parents.

    I suppose I should add that sometimes Indian husbands take an active hand in finding work for their wives. When hiring a regular babysitter for my young kids many years ago, I encountered a VERY insistent Indian man who was determined that his wife would work for us. I never even spoke with his wife. I eventually hired a nice college girl (American).

    Better to take Trump’s suggestion of hiring Americans first and foremost, allowing corporations to hire from abroad only under heavy constraints, if at all.

  52. @anon
    The gender imbalance in immigration, especially illegal immigration , is responsible for a lot of sexual violence and predation particularly as it relates to forcing girls/women into prostitution to satisfy supply and demand.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @unpc downunder

    Higher female to male ratios tend to produce greater percentages of women in prostitution.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Anonymous

    I'm not concerned with voluntary prostitution caused by over supply.

    I'm concerned with children being forced into prostitution to satisfy excess demand - which has been getting worse all over the western world for the last 20 years while the media covers it up.

  53. @anon
    The gender imbalance in immigration, especially illegal immigration , is responsible for a lot of sexual violence and predation particularly as it relates to forcing girls/women into prostitution to satisfy supply and demand.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @unpc downunder

    Good point, I’m surprised Trump hasn’t made this argument (it might boost his support with women!) It should also be pointed out to the liberal anti-slavery movement.

    Bring in lots men from the third/second world, and significant numbers of young women (and a few trannies and rent boys) from the third world/second world will also be smuggled in to service them.

  54. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Drakejax
    As with any government database, the fact that some easy information is unavailable can be assumed to mean that the results would be what we presume they would be from their absence. It seems everyone reading this presumes the lack of H1B demographic data by sex is due to the fact they would show a tremendous male bias. I remember back in the 90s we got told we were switching to some FBI crime stat form; a three-page form was replaced with a much longer form that asked all sorts of demographic data on crime suspects. Yet race was strangely absent from an otherwise comprehensive questionnaire - transparently so the government would be unable to produce such data if asked.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I remember back in the 90s we got told we were switching to some FBI crime stat form; a three-page form was replaced with a much longer form that asked all sorts of demographic data on crime suspects. Yet race was strangely absent from an otherwise comprehensive questionnaire

    In a past job, I once had to run a database report on the criminal histories of a bunch of Africans (i.e. born in Africa, but arrested in the US). At time of arrest, all the subjects were coded in the database as race = black. A few years later, the DOJ changed the race of all these Africans to African-American. Of course, they’re not African-Americans, they’re African-Africans. Some clerk must have been instructed to run an automated script to globally change all “black” to the more PC “African-American.”

  55. @Whiskey
    There is no contradiction here. Feminism is nothing more than the HATE HATE HATE of the 90% of men who are not Alpha males. Simple as that. Feminists are the equivalent of drunken frat boys screaming "no fat chicks." Who have the excuse of youth and booze. Most White women have feminist sympathies, any attractive woman hates and loathes beta males who have the temerity to ask them out for coffee in elevators, and other hateful things that are defined as "rape." [No, I'm not kidding, asking a woman out when she does not want to be asked out is defined by the Obama Administration as rape/sexual assault. Men have to be astute mindreaders, or at least PUA Alpha males]

    Women have embraced the strategy of the late Ricardo Montalban in "Wrath of Khan" blowing themselves up to get their real enemy -- men who are not sexy and of their race. That's why Haven Monaghan hit such a nerve. White women WANTED him to be real, because they HATE HATE HATE the lack of sexy dominance a-holeness in their male cohort peers.

    Sure turn STEM into an Indian sexist hellhole, taking men from a society where women are actually raped and murdered on buses when unprotected by enough male relatives. Its all good to get their real enemy: beta males.

    Addendum -- Steve's friend got hired BECAUSE of AA -- disability is a plus for any big employer and being a woman and disabled ticks two boxes. Three if she can fake lesbianism.

    White men have the disadvantage of no boxes and having a negative score just for existing.

    Replies: @E. Rekshun

    Steve’s friend got hired BECAUSE of AA — disability is a plus for any big employer and being a woman and disabled ticks two boxes. Three if she can fake lesbianism.

    Last week, my boss (a reasonably competent, accomplished, fair-minded, 57 y/o, White female) hired a new mid-level staffer. She extemporaneously let out her satisfaction by claiming, “hey, we tic two boxes with her!” (black + female).

  56. @Anonymous
    @Erik L

    Indian convenience store and gas station clerks in the US are notorious for aggressive sexual advances towards female customers.

    Replies: @E. Rekshun

    Indian [& Pakistani] convenience store and gas station clerks in the US are notorious for aggressive sexual advances towards female customers.

    They’re also notorious for EBT scams and not paying FICA and sales tax.

  57. @anonymous
    "...when you and your commentariat ridicule the same women for criticizing the overwhelmingly male composition of native-born STEM workers."

    No, they're not the "same women". There are women who seem bitter at white men and blame them for everything and then there are women who are programmers. (There are also immigrants who seem bitter at white men and blame them for everything...)

    Decades ago, before things like the H1-B, there were plenty of competent women programmers, working for computer companies, etc.. (I was there. Heck there are competent female programmers in silicon valley today; I've known a number. I've also known a number of uncompetent female programmers.)

    But now-days not that many historic-nation American women seem to even want to enter programming. One theory as to why so few American women now go into programming is because they take one look at the inside of a programming class; look down the IT hall during bring-your-daughter-to-work-day; or hang around a campus job-fair that is computer-oriented; and what they see is a population of mostly 3rd world men. They just don't want to be there.

    It's also obvious that they are potentially going to be competing with practically the entire population of the planet in a death-march race to the bottom. Why would this be good for them? They aren't stupid women...

    Any discussion about American white women and programming has to deal with this, or it's not an honest discussion.

    Replies: @anon, @E. Rekshun, @Anonymous

    Decades ago, before things like the H1-B, there were plenty of competent women programmers…But now-days not that many historic-nation American women seem to even want to enter programming.

    When I did my B.S. Computer Science in the early-to-mid ’80s, 40% of my major was female. Fifteen years later, 5% of my grad school Computer Science classes were female (and none of them were American-born).

    One theory as to why so few American women now go into programming…they see is a population of mostly 3rd world men. They just don’t want to be there.

    Yes, that and all American college women are getting siphoned off into law, medicine, accounting, teaching, and nursing.

    • Replies: @anon
    @E. Rekshun

    And English like Cobol being replaced by math like c++ and java. My guess is the percent of math major US women is also quite low.

  58. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous
    "...when you and your commentariat ridicule the same women for criticizing the overwhelmingly male composition of native-born STEM workers."

    No, they're not the "same women". There are women who seem bitter at white men and blame them for everything and then there are women who are programmers. (There are also immigrants who seem bitter at white men and blame them for everything...)

    Decades ago, before things like the H1-B, there were plenty of competent women programmers, working for computer companies, etc.. (I was there. Heck there are competent female programmers in silicon valley today; I've known a number. I've also known a number of uncompetent female programmers.)

    But now-days not that many historic-nation American women seem to even want to enter programming. One theory as to why so few American women now go into programming is because they take one look at the inside of a programming class; look down the IT hall during bring-your-daughter-to-work-day; or hang around a campus job-fair that is computer-oriented; and what they see is a population of mostly 3rd world men. They just don't want to be there.

    It's also obvious that they are potentially going to be competing with practically the entire population of the planet in a death-march race to the bottom. Why would this be good for them? They aren't stupid women...

    Any discussion about American white women and programming has to deal with this, or it's not an honest discussion.

    Replies: @anon, @E. Rekshun, @Anonymous

    There don’t seem to be many women in IT in Australia or Europe either:

    http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/software-engineer/it-gender-gap-where-are-the-female-programmers/

    In Australia in 1994, 22% of IT graduates were female; by 1998, only 19% of IT graduates were female.
    Western European countries show females as being less represented in the ranks of computing undergraduates (Germany: 10.5% in 2000, United Kingdom: 19% in 1999, Netherlands: 6.6% in 1999) than in the United States (26.7% in 1998); Northern Europeans (Norway, Sweden, etc.) show the same or more women graduates (Sweden: 30% in 2000, Norway: 23.2% in 1999) as a percentage than the United States for the same years (26.7%).

    Though this data is old, but presumably there would have been less IT insourcing then than there is now, if European countries do significant IT insourcing.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Anonymous

    Are there similar stats for math major graduates?

  59. @E. Rekshun
    @anonymous

    Decades ago, before things like the H1-B, there were plenty of competent women programmers...But now-days not that many historic-nation American women seem to even want to enter programming.

    When I did my B.S. Computer Science in the early-to-mid '80s, 40% of my major was female. Fifteen years later, 5% of my grad school Computer Science classes were female (and none of them were American-born).

    One theory as to why so few American women now go into programming...they see is a population of mostly 3rd world men. They just don’t want to be there.

    Yes, that and all American college women are getting siphoned off into law, medicine, accounting, teaching, and nursing.

    Replies: @anon

    And English like Cobol being replaced by math like c++ and java. My guess is the percent of math major US women is also quite low.

  60. @Anonymous
    @anonymous

    There don't seem to be many women in IT in Australia or Europe either:

    http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/software-engineer/it-gender-gap-where-are-the-female-programmers/


    In Australia in 1994, 22% of IT graduates were female; by 1998, only 19% of IT graduates were female.
    Western European countries show females as being less represented in the ranks of computing undergraduates (Germany: 10.5% in 2000, United Kingdom: 19% in 1999, Netherlands: 6.6% in 1999) than in the United States (26.7% in 1998); Northern Europeans (Norway, Sweden, etc.) show the same or more women graduates (Sweden: 30% in 2000, Norway: 23.2% in 1999) as a percentage than the United States for the same years (26.7%).
     
    Though this data is old, but presumably there would have been less IT insourcing then than there is now, if European countries do significant IT insourcing.

    Replies: @anon

    Are there similar stats for math major graduates?

  61. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @NOTA
    @Anon7

    But I thought the womens' team won more than the mens' team. If so, how is that a good deal for the women?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Put yourself in the shoes of the average woman. Obviously, in the female and male populations there will always be outliers, but for the sake of the argument, think about the *average* woman. She values security more than the possibility of fortune.

    So many (but not all) women would rather make $50,000 a year, no matter how well or badly they perform at their jobs, whereas many (but not all) men would rather make $0 if they do badly and $100,000 if they do well.

  62. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “It may also be due to change in technology. Decades ago, programmers used to write stuff like…”

    “And English like Cobol being replaced by math like c++ and java. My guess is the percent of math major US women is also quite low.”

    I’m doubtful it was due to change in technology. A lot of those women were assembly or Fortran programmers. I wouldn’t be surprised if more women wrote assembly back then then the total number of assembly programmers today. (There was just a lot more assembly back then, even though the industry was much smaller.)

    (Wasn’t one of the 3 people that invented Java RMI a woman? Yes, it seems so: “A Distributed Object Model for the Java System”.)

    I do think the change from “internally-developed” apps for almost all software to a proprietary world of “software products” changed things a lot for women. The “internally-developed” apps were often developed at a 9-to-5 professional pace that made programming a good career for women. The “software-industry” with it’s grueling deadline-driven development, seemingly followed by endless rounds of more deadline-driven development, probably did not seem so attractive. And you didn’t even get to see people use your program… and interact with them and hear them say “aah!”.

    “Are there similar stats for math major graduates?”

    I don’t think there have ever been lots of women math majors, but isn’t it the case that there are even fewer today than in the past?

    On the other hand, I think women make up over 50% of accounting graduates. Accounting has remained a professional 9-to-5 career for women. No one has ever really studied if programming is actually harder (or more “mathematical”?) than accounting. I suspect it could be that accountants at places like KPMG are dealing with abstractions that rival those most programmers deal with. But I don’t know a lot about accounting.

  63. @Numinous
    The percentage of women among H-1B visa holders is definitely much lower than 50, but even then, I would bet it's an order of magnitude higher than the percentage of women within the native-born American workforce. I don't know why that is; perhaps the persistent ridicule of nerds in American culture has something to do with it. Speaking for India, at least, IT and other office work (like call center operations) are considered to be well-suited for women. Walk into any such workplace in India and you'll see about as many women as men; it's a huge difference from what you'd see walking in the corridors of an American tech company. Graduate students in the higher-ranked engineering programs (especially computer science) also tend to be overwhelmingly male; the only females I found in the program I attended were foreigners. So if many of the H-1B visas go to these foreign students, the result is likely to be gender-skewed.

    And I echo Vinay's point above: it's rich to blame foreign workers of misogyny (or whatever it is you blame them for) when you and your commentariat ridicule the same women for criticizing the overwhelmingly male composition of native-born STEM workers.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SFG, @bomag, @AndrewR, @anowow, @Anon, @ben tillman

    And I echo Vinay’s point above: it’s rich to blame foreign workers of misogyny (or whatever it is you blame them for) when you and your commentariat ridicule the same women for criticizing the overwhelmingly male composition of native-born STEM workers.

    What “same women”? And what ridicule? No one here ridicules “women” for complaining about anything; we object to our rulers enforcing stupid dictates based on falsehoods. Women are only tangentially connected to the process.

  64. Seems like a great question for candidate Hillary Clinton. However, I’m guessing if it hasn’t been done already, it won’t be allowed to be asked by any major media players.

  65. When I tell a nursing in-law about the realities of working as a programmer, she always looks a bit faint.

    It’s in essence a fairly boring, repetitive job as a cog with naive coworkers at best (ready to stab you in the back to the boss if you happen to like their enemy programming language or web framework), lots of management expectations to work heroic overtime at no compensation, no human capital accumulated since the tech changes every 5 years, lots of international low-wage competition, and you’re on your way out at forty. In some parts of the profession, you can basically work your entire career on projects that all get cancelled. Oh yeah, and nowadays you furthermore get micromanaged using “agile”.

    As someone once said, maybe STEM women are smart enough to stay away?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Pericles

    Judging by Nobel Prizes, the smartest women over the last half century have been going into the life sciences rather than the death sciences.

  66. “H1B Sex Breakdown” sounds like a good name for some kind of alternative band.

    [Apologies to Dave Barry.]

    Or perhaps the error code equivalent to “General System Fault” in the next generation of AI companion robots.

    It also reminds me of the old joke said to be about the British civil service, in which the centre sends around a memo demanding that each department provide “numbers of employees, broken down by sex”.

    The Foreign Office replies, “We find drink to be a greater problem in our department.”

    Derb may have mentioned that at one point or another.

  67. @Pericles
    When I tell a nursing in-law about the realities of working as a programmer, she always looks a bit faint.

    It's in essence a fairly boring, repetitive job as a cog with naive coworkers at best (ready to stab you in the back to the boss if you happen to like their enemy programming language or web framework), lots of management expectations to work heroic overtime at no compensation, no human capital accumulated since the tech changes every 5 years, lots of international low-wage competition, and you're on your way out at forty. In some parts of the profession, you can basically work your entire career on projects that all get cancelled. Oh yeah, and nowadays you furthermore get micromanaged using "agile".

    As someone once said, maybe STEM women are smart enough to stay away?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Judging by Nobel Prizes, the smartest women over the last half century have been going into the life sciences rather than the death sciences.

  68. @Anonymous
    @anon

    Higher female to male ratios tend to produce greater percentages of women in prostitution.

    Replies: @anon

    I’m not concerned with voluntary prostitution caused by over supply.

    I’m concerned with children being forced into prostitution to satisfy excess demand – which has been getting worse all over the western world for the last 20 years while the media covers it up.

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