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From the New York Times opinion section, a very clever op-ed designed to get NYT subscribers nodding along and saying, “Why, of course!” Admittedly, rather like Steve Goodman and David Allan Coe’s “You Never Even Called Me by My Name,” to be the perfect NYT op-ed, it would need to add references to transphobia, redlining, and black women’s hair. But it’s one heckuva an effort.

There Is No Good Reason You Should Have to Be a Citizen to Vote

July 28, 2021

By Atossa Araxia Abrahamian

Atossa Araxia Abrahamian (@atossaaraxia) is the author of “The Cosmopolites: The Coming of the Global Citizen.” …

From Wikipedia:

Abrahamian was born in Canada and grew up in Switzerland. Her parents, who are Iranians of Armenian and Russian descent, worked for the United Nations. She holds Swiss, Canadian and Iranian citizenship …

Back to the NYT:

This essay is part of a series exploring bold ideas to revitalize and renew the American experiment. Read more about this project in a note from Ezekiel Kweku, Opinion’s politics editor.

Washingtonians love to complain about taxation without representation. But for me and my fellow noncitizens

You aren’t a noncitizen, you are a citizen of 3 foreign countries. And you want to vote here without becoming an American citizen.

, it is a fact of political life that we submit to unquestioningly year after year, primary after primary, presidential election after presidential election. Nearly 15 million people living legally in the United States, most of whom contribute as much as any natural-born American to this country’s civic, cultural and economic life, don’t have a say in matters of politics and policy because we — resident foreign nationals, or “aliens” as we are sometimes called — cannot vote.

Considering the Supreme Court’s recent decision undermining voting rights, and Republicans’ efforts to suppress, redistrict and manipulate their way to electoral security, it’s time for Democrats to radically expand the electorate. Proposing federal legislation to give millions of young people and essential workers a clear road to citizenship is a good start. But there’s another measure that lawmakers both in Washington and state capitals should put in place: lifting voting restrictions on legal residents who aren’t citizens — people with green cards, people here on work visas, and those who arrived in the country as children and are still waiting for permanent papers.

Expanding the franchise in this way would give American democracy new life, restore immigrants’ trust in government and send a powerful message of inclusion to the rest of the world.

It’s easy to assume that restricting the franchise to citizens is an age-old, nonnegotiable fact. But it’s actually a relatively recent convention and a political choice.

It’s socially constructed!

Early in the United States’ history, voting was a function not of national citizenship but of gender, race and class. As a result, white male landowners of all nationalities were encouraged to play an active role in shaping American democracy, while women and poor, Indigenous and enslaved people could not. That wholesale discrimination is unquestionably worse than excluding resident foreigners from the polls, but the point is that history shows how readily voting laws can be altered — and that restrictive ones tend not to age well.

It’s like racism. American citizens are on the wrong side of history. In the future, when the USA has been renamed something less discriminatory-sounding, such as Power Mall One, people will look back with horror on when only Americans were allowed to vote in America.

Another misconception is that citizen voting rights have always been the prerogative of the federal government. In fact, states have largely decided who had a say in local, state and national elections. Arkansas was the last state to eliminate noncitizen voting in 1926, and it wasn’t until 1996 that Congress doubled down with the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which made voting in federal elections while foreign — already not permitted because of state-level rules — a criminal, and deportable, offense. (This means that congressional Democrats working on immigration and election reform can reverse the 1996 sanctions the same way they voted them in.)

The strongest case for noncitizen voting today is representation: The more voters show up to the polls, the more accurately elections reflect peoples’ desires.

Similarly, shoplifting makes shoplifters happier, and they are people too.

The United States already has plenty of institutions that account for noncitizens: The census aims to reach all residents because it believes everyone, even aliens, matters. Corporations enjoy free speech and legal personhood — and they’re not even people.

Glenn Weyl is probably right now inspired to dream up an explanation for why Google should get to cast 100 million votes for President.

Would it be such a stretch to give noncitizen residents a say in who gets elected to their state legislature, Congress or the White House?

What’s more, allowing noncitizens to vote in federal, state and municipal elections would help revitalize American democracy at a time when enthusiasm and trust are lacking. …

Democrats are likely to be the biggest beneficiaries of this change — at least at first. But it could have interesting ripple effects: Elected Republicans might be induced to appeal to a more diverse constituency or perhaps to enthuse their constituents so deeply that they, too, start to vote in greater numbers.

Or maybe we’ll just disenfranchise everybody who voted for Trump.

It’s also just good civics: Allowing people to vote gives them even more of a sense of investment in their towns, cities, communities and country. There’s a detachment that comes with not being able to vote in the place where you live. Concerns about mixed loyalties, meanwhile, are misplaced.

Mis placed, I tell you. For example, you never, ever hear immigrants lecturing us on why immigrants should get more power or why America must let in more of their cousins. And who has ever heard of Cubans, Armenians, Venezuelans, Jews, or Taiwanese trying to influence American foreign policy?

The United States not only allows dual citizenship but also allows dual citizens to vote — and from abroad. Is there any reason to think resident foreigners should be less represented?

After all, everybody in America thinks dual citizens voting in two countries is an absolutely swell idea, which is why you hear about Afroyim v. Rusk as often as Brown v Board of Education.

You don’t?

… And what better way to learn about American life than to play an active role in deciding its elections?

… Last fall, I grew so frustrated that I started mailing ballots to my hometown in Switzerland.

… I hope that Democrats seize their chance, and realize the power and the enthusiasm of their potential constituents. They — and we — will not regret it.

This kind of thing is persuasive in today’s zeitgeist. I mean who could imagine that the US government exists for any other purpose than to inclusively foster and facilitate the ongoing Scramble for America among the seven billion non-Americans?

Whoever heard of a thing called The Preamble?

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 
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  1. Cool. How do I get a ballot for the next election in Australia and Israel?

    I think it’s my duty as a citizen of the world to vote in at least those 2 elections because A: Australia needs to vote their assholes out of office and B: Israel has a severe diversity problem that I think if we all work together we can fix one vote at a time.

    There maybe be other places that my vote may be needed as well so it’s not going to stop their I assure you.

    • LOL: notsaying
  2. They are really desperate to dissolve the people and elect another, aren’t they?

    • Agree: AnotherDad
    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @SFG


    They are really desperate to dissolve the people and elect another, aren’t they?
     
    If estimates are to be believed, Biden is going to let over 2 million illegals into the country this year alone. That's above and beyond the ~1.5 million legal immigrants that are coming. That's 3.5 million people - more people than live in 21 US states. More people than live in Nevada, Utah, or Arkansas.

    Recall that Biden has also massively increased the number of refugee admissions and that Congress has recently increased the number of H-1B visas.

    Then just be sure to settle half those people in the drought-stricken West, where housing is already in short supply, prices are up 20-30% in just the last year, and the homeless have taken over our cities.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Alden, @International Jew, @Supply and Demand

    , @Anonymous
    @SFG

    Sadly NOT OT: While the elite-controlled MSM/government/academia etc. complex keeps hammering the theme of a borderless world with limitless access to low-level workers and all manner of servants, most major countries continue to restrict inbound tourism by reference to COVID.

    A permanent restriction on international travel by the hated hoi polloi/"deplorables" appears to be a major objective.

    Countries that continue to restrict inbound tourism - despite the serious impact on their economies - include the U.S., China, Russia, India and many others. Some countries even purport to restrict outbound travel by their citizens.

    Those traveling on "business" and/or by private jet are presumably unaffected.

    , @Alfa158
    @SFG

    Dissolve the people yes, elect another no. The objective is to dissolve the concept of nations and turn everyone into rootless cosmopolitans for the benefit of global capitalism.

    Capital makes the most profits by maximizing income and minimizing expenses. That means it wants:
    - unrestricted access to mineral resources and energy, with minimal tariffs or troublesome labor or environmental restrictions.
    - unhindered access to any market anywhere on the planet, and packing people into those locations where they can have the highest rate of consumption.
    - the lowest possible operating expenses. This means:
    - if you have a job opening anywhere in the world at any level from ditch digger, to assembly line worker, to engineer, to accountant, to scientist to physician you ideally want that job to be filled by the one person on planet Earth who is:
    A. capable of doing the job and,
    B. willing do it for less money than any other person on planet Earth.
    C. this can be accomplished either by having unrestricted movement of people to anywhere in the world to the job or by moving the job to another country. Whichever is cheaper.
    - former nations are to be dissolved into nothing more than geographically convenient administrative regions populated by deracinated and de-cultured generic Brown masses.
    - if necessary, Capital is willing to temporarily use avowed Marxist enemies as foot soldiers and promote ideas like environmentalism, gay rights, women’s liberation, tranny rights and so forth as weapons for dissolving all those troublesome nations into a nice homogenous transnational slurry that can be relied on to go through the motions to always vote one way, and that way the right way.

    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @SFG


    They are really desperate to dissolve the people
     
    There will be a ‘dissolving’ (i.e. macrophage action, i.e. genocide) of people all right—and for those who recognize that likely inevitability, it then comes down to Who/Whom: pro-White or anti-White.
  3. • Replies: @Clyde
    @JohnnyWalker123

    What? Is she too stuck up to bake a bake hamantashen? Or is she abysmal in the kitchen? She is super educated, a citizen of three nations, a dunce in cooking?

  4. Amazon’s description of The Cosmopolites: The Coming of the Global Citizen actually sounds kind of interesting, and not at all the uncritical celebration of “diversity” that one might expect:

    “The buying and selling of citizenship has become a thriving business in just a few years. Entrepreneurs and libertarians are renouncing America and Europe in favor of tax havens like Singapore and the Caribbean. But as journalist Atossa Araxia Abrahamian discovered, the story of twenty-first-century citizenship is bigger than millionaires seeking their next passport.

    “When Abrahamian learned that a group of mysterious middlemen were persuading island nations like the Comoros, St. Kitts, and Antigua to turn to selling citizenship as a new source of revenue after the 2008 financial crisis, she decided to follow the money trail to the Middle East. There, she found that the customers of passports-in-bulk programs were the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait, oil-rich countries that don’t want to confer their own citizenship on their bidoon people, or stateless minorities who have no documentation.

    “In her timely and eye-opening first book, Abrahamian travels the globe to meet these willing and unwitting “cosmopolites,” or citizens of the world, who inhabit a new, borderless realm where things can go very well, or very badly.”

    • Thanks: Grahamsno(G64)
  5. “Atossa Araxia Abrahamian”?

    That sounds like something S.J. Perelman and Joseph Heller cooked up after a few too many.

    This woman holds Swiss, Canadian and Iranian citizenship — but feels entitled to vote in the United States?

    What’s Farsi for chutzpah?

    • Agree: fish, notsaying
    • LOL: Clyde, kaganovitch
    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Gary in Gramercy


    This woman holds Swiss, Canadian and Iranian citizenship — but feels entitled to vote in the United States?
     
    Obviously she's a future USonian orange juice farmer.
  6. I think non-shareholders should have the right to vote in all shareholder meetings of the New York Times Company, and any other business in which Slim Helu is invested.

    Billionaires aggressively protect their rights to any property they own, but work vigorously to devalue the most valuable asset the average American owns – his United States citizenship.

    One problem (among many) with giving voting rights to non-citizens or dual citizens is that they are not bound by the laws they would inflict on others. They can up and leave at any moment, after siphoning off the wealth of their temporary home. They don’t necessarily have any incentive to vote for what’s in the best interests of Americans because they have, at best, divided loyalties – if they have any loyalties at all.

    • Agree: Bubba
    • Replies: @newrouter
    @Wilkey

    "I think non-shareholders should have the right to vote in all shareholder meetings of the New York Times Company, "

    I think you want to vote as a class A shareholder of NYT stock. Slim got B shares I think.

  7. For Atossa Araxia Abrahamian the real test is not what she says and writes. We know this will be self-justification drivel. For her toss in rootless cosmopolitan. What Unzites want to see is her photo. >>> https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/the-nation-names-atossa-araxia-abrahamian-senior-editor/

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Clyde

    WNB

    , @Whataboutery2020
    @Clyde

    Surely that's a bloke?

    , @Neil Templeton
    @Clyde

    Atossa, love you, you're pretty for a Persian, but I don't care.

  8. @SFG
    They are really desperate to dissolve the people and elect another, aren't they?

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Anonymous, @Alfa158, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    They are really desperate to dissolve the people and elect another, aren’t they?

    If estimates are to be believed, Biden is going to let over 2 million illegals into the country this year alone. That’s above and beyond the ~1.5 million legal immigrants that are coming. That’s 3.5 million people – more people than live in 21 US states. More people than live in Nevada, Utah, or Arkansas.

    Recall that Biden has also massively increased the number of refugee admissions and that Congress has recently increased the number of H-1B visas.

    Then just be sure to settle half those people in the drought-stricken West, where housing is already in short supply, prices are up 20-30% in just the last year, and the homeless have taken over our cities.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Wilkey

    Illegal immigration is spiking to extreme and unprecedented levels.

    It’s projected that 1.7 million illegals will be apprehended crossing the US-Mexico border in the fiscal year 2021. This statistic does NOT include those who aren’t caught. This will be the LARGEST number ever recorded in ANY year. Even larger than the year 1986 and the year 2000.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-07-21/illegal-border-crossings-are-surging-along-with-the-u-s-economy

    https://i.imgur.com/6SRNdb6.jpeg


    As jobs go unfilled in America, single adults are driving an increase in illegal crossings. Some are trying multiple times.

     


    Now border apprehensions could surpass the peaks of 1986 and 2000
     
    They’re mainly from Latin America and the Caribbean. Only a few are from elsewhere.

    https://imgur.com/a/xC7jg3B#NKJVqfg


    There has also been a big increase in unauthorized Southwest border crossings by people from places other than Mexico and the Northern Triangle, enabled in part by the Mexico’s lack of pandemic-related restrictions on incoming travel. Some have come from far afield — since October, U.S. Customs and Border Protection reports encounters with 3,520 Romanians, 1,407 Indians and 1,211 Russians along the Southwest border — but most are from elsewhere in Latin America or the Caribbean.
     
    These illegals are then released into America.

    Our president was told his resumption of “catch and release” would trigger a surge of illegal migration, but he proceeded forward with his plan. His executive order on this was issued in February 2021.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/538313-catch-and-release-is-back-with-added-problems


    The executive order also rescinds the Trump memorandum that ended “catch and release.”

    Catch and release is the Obama-era practice of apprehending aliens who have made an illegal border crossing and then releasing them if they promise to return for a hearing.

    This might not be a problem if there were some way to keep track of the aliens after they are released, but there isn’t. They are free to go anywhere they want to go, and there are too many of them.

    And it takes a long time to schedule hearings for them. The average wait for a hearing is 869 days.
     

    , @Alden
    @Wilkey

    I do hope they all move to Santa Clara County Ca. and take over the local campuses of Stanford San Jose State U Santa Clara U and google Facebook and the rest of the “ Only non White HI Bs shall apply” tech company campuses. . And the nicer residential sections of the towns.

    , @International Jew
    @Wilkey

    "They need to go back." I'm hoping for a Republican President who will talk like Trump but also follow through. There'll be a lot of people to deport by then, and the media will raise holy hell, but deport we must.

    , @Supply and Demand
    @Wilkey

    You should have voted Democrat, then!

  9. A new show offers a glimpse into youth ‘dating’ culture.

    I have a feeling most of the posters here are “FBoys.”

    • Replies: @interesting
    @JohnnyWalker123

    That is as dumb as it gets. Anyone who would watch that needs to get a life.

  10. “One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no ordinary man could be such a fool.”

    • Agree: notsaying
  11. @Wilkey
    @SFG


    They are really desperate to dissolve the people and elect another, aren’t they?
     
    If estimates are to be believed, Biden is going to let over 2 million illegals into the country this year alone. That's above and beyond the ~1.5 million legal immigrants that are coming. That's 3.5 million people - more people than live in 21 US states. More people than live in Nevada, Utah, or Arkansas.

    Recall that Biden has also massively increased the number of refugee admissions and that Congress has recently increased the number of H-1B visas.

    Then just be sure to settle half those people in the drought-stricken West, where housing is already in short supply, prices are up 20-30% in just the last year, and the homeless have taken over our cities.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Alden, @International Jew, @Supply and Demand

    Illegal immigration is spiking to extreme and unprecedented levels.

    It’s projected that 1.7 million illegals will be apprehended crossing the US-Mexico border in the fiscal year 2021. This statistic does NOT include those who aren’t caught. This will be the LARGEST number ever recorded in ANY year. Even larger than the year 1986 and the year 2000.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-07-21/illegal-border-crossings-are-surging-along-with-the-u-s-economy

    As jobs go unfilled in America, single adults are driving an increase in illegal crossings. Some are trying multiple times.

    Now border apprehensions could surpass the peaks of 1986 and 2000

    They’re mainly from Latin America and the Caribbean. Only a few are from elsewhere.

    View post on imgur.com

    There has also been a big increase in unauthorized Southwest border crossings by people from places other than Mexico and the Northern Triangle, enabled in part by the Mexico’s lack of pandemic-related restrictions on incoming travel. Some have come from far afield — since October, U.S. Customs and Border Protection reports encounters with 3,520 Romanians, 1,407 Indians and 1,211 Russians along the Southwest border — but most are from elsewhere in Latin America or the Caribbean.

    These illegals are then released into America.

    Our president was told his resumption of “catch and release” would trigger a surge of illegal migration, but he proceeded forward with his plan. His executive order on this was issued in February 2021.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/538313-catch-and-release-is-back-with-added-problems

    The executive order also rescinds the Trump memorandum that ended “catch and release.”

    Catch and release is the Obama-era practice of apprehending aliens who have made an illegal border crossing and then releasing them if they promise to return for a hearing.

    This might not be a problem if there were some way to keep track of the aliens after they are released, but there isn’t. They are free to go anywhere they want to go, and there are too many of them.

    And it takes a long time to schedule hearings for them. The average wait for a hearing is 869 days.

  12. The clever emphasis on voting makes this just another way to divide white American citizens up 50/50. Half look at this editorial and say “Oh, how magnificent! Another way to signal my virtue!” and the other half gags in disbelief.

    In the One Billion Americans future coming in 2100, of course, voting won’t matter. You don’t vote in the mall, do you? You just buy stuff. Why don’t you get to vote in the mall? Because it doesn’t belong to you, dummy. I’m not saying that America won’t belong to someone; just not you.

  13. The nation state exists to represent the rights of its citizens. Without the protection of this more comprehensive entity, individual citizens are powerless before the organized forces in this world which seek to benefit at their expense. Why would a nation open its policy making apparatus to antagonists? It’s pretty simple really.

    By the way, Steve, have you ever considered relatedness between people as determined by ease of organ transplantability/receptiveness (without the need for or minimal use of immunosuppressant drugs) as a criterion of extended genetic family? That would seem to be a pretty objective standard.

    • Replies: @donut
    @ThreeCranes

    "The nation state exists to represent the rights of its citizens." How quaint .

    Replies: @ThreeCranes

    , @jamie b.
    @ThreeCranes


    ...relatedness between people as determined by ease of organ transplantability/receptiveness...
     
    Immunological techniques were originally used before DNA to reconstruct phylogenic trees. You mix proteins from one species with antibodies from another. The more agglutination (measured as turbidity), the more distantly related the species. They were doing this way back in the 50's. Don't know how well it would work for conspecifics.

    Replies: @ThreeCranes

    , @AnotherDad
    @ThreeCranes


    The nation state exists to represent the rights of its citizens. Without the protection of this more comprehensive entity, individual citizens are powerless before the organized forces in this world which seek to benefit at their expense.
     
    As blood boiling as this crap is to read, it really does highlight the core issue:

    Parasite vs. Host

    Minoritarianism is fundamentally a middle-man-minority ideology, now taken up by additonal "global cosmopolitans". It's the assertion that the middle man has an inherent right to plop themselves down anywhere and everywhere and set to work looting. Basically the host population must "lie back and take it".

    There's no ethical or moral argument for this. It's just assertion. Assertion backed up be smearing the community/nation's people, culture, history ...

    And it's stupid. They have no more right to plop down wherever they please, than i do to say plop down in China, or Israel; or for that matter in Harvard, or my neighbor's house. I.e. be an intruder.

    No such actual rights exist or, in fact, can exist You have the right to go, to leave. (Abrogation of such a right is how i knew even as kid that the commies were bad guys.) You do not have the right to come--the right to insert yourself in other's people's affairs--home, neighborhood, community, nation.


    In contrast normies--normal human beings--tend to think that they are entitled to live as they wish in their traditional communities and govern themselves. Normies are ... normal humans!--with normal human concepts of fairness, which do not include the right of people to impose themselves upon others.

    The disparate morality of these two ideologies could not be clearer:

    Minoritarian middle-man demands that the host population must behave as the middle man demands. Open their communities and nations for looting. Essentially be their serfs. Its proponents assert the right to make other people do stuff for them. Such things can not be rights.

    The normie-nationalist in contrast asserts only the right to live in his own community, work for his/his community's own benefit, order his affairs as he wishes and govern himself. He makes no demand on other peoples. Ergo his vision is capable of reciprocity. And he is in the right.


    All the sturm and drang around bedeviling America and the modern West, centers on this central issue: Parasite vs. host.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

  14. The new revolution can’t come soon enough.

  15. Whoever heard of a thing called The Preamble?

    We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Steve, thank you.

    I believe I have quoted The Preamble here at least a couple of times. It should be quoted often.

    — Buzz, in psychiatric hold with Brad Pitt

  16. This dumb bitch has been here for years; she wants all the privileges of US citizenship but none of the pesky responsibilities, such as paying taxes.

    Seth Barrett Tillman jumps all over her: https://reformclub.blogspot.com/2021/07/letter-to-editor-responding-to-atossa.html

    She looks like a real sweetheart:

  17. “I’m looking forward to the City Council giving me, and the other million or so friendly aliens living here, the right to vote for New York’s officials. ”

    “Friendly aliens”, how about unfriendly aliens, will they be able to vote in NYC? I doubt the NYC council will allow non citizens to vote. Why would owners allow renters to vote?

  18. My question is why ANY American citizen would give even a quarter of a shit what some Iranian Armenian Canadian thinks about our political processes.

    Are Iranian Armenian Canadians suddenly Chosen?

  19. Abrahamian… it’s the Armenian cognate of Abramovitz.

    Every.Single.Time.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Kratoklastes

    Abrahamian… it’s the Armenian cognate of Abramovitz. Every.Single.Time.

    Nah, it's her husband's name.

  20. Atossa Araxia Abrahamian (@atossaaraxia) is the author of “The Cosmopolites: The Coming of the Global Citizen.”

    https://www.google.com/images?q=Atossa+Araxia+Abrahamian

  21. Anonymous[301] • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG
    They are really desperate to dissolve the people and elect another, aren't they?

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Anonymous, @Alfa158, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Sadly NOT OT: While the elite-controlled MSM/government/academia etc. complex keeps hammering the theme of a borderless world with limitless access to low-level workers and all manner of servants, most major countries continue to restrict inbound tourism by reference to COVID.

    A permanent restriction on international travel by the hated hoi polloi/”deplorables” appears to be a major objective.

    Countries that continue to restrict inbound tourism – despite the serious impact on their economies – include the U.S., China, Russia, India and many others. Some countries even purport to restrict outbound travel by their citizens.

    Those traveling on “business” and/or by private jet are presumably unaffected.

  22. @SFG
    They are really desperate to dissolve the people and elect another, aren't they?

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Anonymous, @Alfa158, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Dissolve the people yes, elect another no. The objective is to dissolve the concept of nations and turn everyone into rootless cosmopolitans for the benefit of global capitalism.

    Capital makes the most profits by maximizing income and minimizing expenses. That means it wants:
    – unrestricted access to mineral resources and energy, with minimal tariffs or troublesome labor or environmental restrictions.
    – unhindered access to any market anywhere on the planet, and packing people into those locations where they can have the highest rate of consumption.
    – the lowest possible operating expenses. This means:
    – if you have a job opening anywhere in the world at any level from ditch digger, to assembly line worker, to engineer, to accountant, to scientist to physician you ideally want that job to be filled by the one person on planet Earth who is:
    A. capable of doing the job and,
    B. willing do it for less money than any other person on planet Earth.
    C. this can be accomplished either by having unrestricted movement of people to anywhere in the world to the job or by moving the job to another country. Whichever is cheaper.
    – former nations are to be dissolved into nothing more than geographically convenient administrative regions populated by deracinated and de-cultured generic Brown masses.
    – if necessary, Capital is willing to temporarily use avowed Marxist enemies as foot soldiers and promote ideas like environmentalism, gay rights, women’s liberation, tranny rights and so forth as weapons for dissolving all those troublesome nations into a nice homogenous transnational slurry that can be relied on to go through the motions to always vote one way, and that way the right way.

    • Agree: Polistra
  23. @SFG
    They are really desperate to dissolve the people and elect another, aren't they?

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Anonymous, @Alfa158, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    They are really desperate to dissolve the people

    There will be a ‘dissolving’ (i.e. macrophage action, i.e. genocide) of people all right—and for those who recognize that likely inevitability, it then comes down to Who/Whom: pro-White or anti-White.

  24. This is one topic that makes me truly angry. This kind of thing is class warfare by privileged cosmopolitans against the people who were actually born in a country.

  25. The strongest case for noncitizen voting today is representation: The more voters show up to the polls, the more accurately elections reflect peoples’ desires.

    Yes, the more non-citizens vote the less accurately election reflect citizens’ desires.

    Seems like something that would be undesirable to citizens.

    Democrats are likely to be the biggest beneficiaries of this change — at least at first. But it could have interesting ripple effects: Elected Republicans might be induced to appeal to a more diverse constituency or perhaps to enthuse their constituents so deeply that they, too, start to vote in greater numbers.

    Any Republican who falls for that may as well crush his own head in a vice. His brain isn’t doing anything anyway.

  26. @Wilkey
    I think non-shareholders should have the right to vote in all shareholder meetings of the New York Times Company, and any other business in which Slim Helu is invested.

    Billionaires aggressively protect their rights to any property they own, but work vigorously to devalue the most valuable asset the average American owns - his United States citizenship.

    One problem (among many) with giving voting rights to non-citizens or dual citizens is that they are not bound by the laws they would inflict on others. They can up and leave at any moment, after siphoning off the wealth of their temporary home. They don't necessarily have any incentive to vote for what's in the best interests of Americans because they have, at best, divided loyalties - if they have any loyalties at all.

    Replies: @newrouter

    “I think non-shareholders should have the right to vote in all shareholder meetings of the New York Times Company, ”

    I think you want to vote as a class A shareholder of NYT stock. Slim got B shares I think.

  27. @Gary in Gramercy
    "Atossa Araxia Abrahamian"?

    That sounds like something S.J. Perelman and Joseph Heller cooked up after a few too many.

    This woman holds Swiss, Canadian and Iranian citizenship -- but feels entitled to vote in the United States?

    What's Farsi for chutzpah?

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    This woman holds Swiss, Canadian and Iranian citizenship — but feels entitled to vote in the United States?

    Obviously she’s a future USonian orange juice farmer.

  28. Okay so there’s like 0% chance Steve and Charles Murray aren’t correct, any way to manipulate the stock market on this basis? Apple went up 21x (!) since 2009, when I seem to recall Apple having about the same general social presence, as a brand. We can definitely see the inferno of credibility from old journalism embracing 105 IQ. And showbiz! To a large extent. Those shows aren’t even funny, anymore. Gender hiring also tanking going concerns (maybe Tina Fey is great, but she’s a wild outlier.)

  29. I find myself wondering if she is more like Marie Antoinette or Elena Ceausescu, that is, is this a naive proposal made from a position of privilege, or is she conscious that this is a hostile act directed at class enemies?

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Mitchell Porter

    In her case, it might be privileged naïveté. But her bosses know exactly what they're doing.

  30. My innovative idea to revitalize democracy is you get one vote in federal elections per 10k in federal taxes paid.

    Are public companies not generally better run than Congress?

    Would Pelosi, Biden, or Trump ever be elected to run Apple? Or any 80-something?

    Semi-related: Tim Cook’s longtime partner appears to be a very high IQ Taiwanese American and vaguely right wing.

    “ Ben holds a Ph.D. and Master’s in Computer Science from Stanford University and a B.S. in Electrical Engineering / Computer Science with a minor in Business Administration from UC Berkeley. Ben is a Department of Defense Fellow and recipient of UC Berkeley’s Bechtel Achievement Award (Top graduating senior in College of Engineering).”

    His Twitter includes anti Liz Warren trolling and dozens of posts on how SF is becoming a craphole.

  31. @JohnnyWalker123
    https://twitter.com/atossaaraxia/status/1359948959121293313?lang=en

    Replies: @Clyde

    What? Is she too stuck up to bake a bake hamantashen? Or is she abysmal in the kitchen? She is super educated, a citizen of three nations, a dunce in cooking?

  32. There Is No Good Reason You Should Have to Be a Citizen to Vote

    Yes, there is a good reason, and it is this: this is my fucking country — NOT YOURS. I was born here, you weren’t.

    Abrahamian was born in Canada and grew up in Switzerland. Her parents, who are Iranians of Armenian and Russian descent, worked for the United Nations. She holds Swiss, Canadian and Iranian citizenship …

    If you want to vote, then go back to one of the three countries where you hold citizenship and stay there.

  33. @Wilkey
    @SFG


    They are really desperate to dissolve the people and elect another, aren’t they?
     
    If estimates are to be believed, Biden is going to let over 2 million illegals into the country this year alone. That's above and beyond the ~1.5 million legal immigrants that are coming. That's 3.5 million people - more people than live in 21 US states. More people than live in Nevada, Utah, or Arkansas.

    Recall that Biden has also massively increased the number of refugee admissions and that Congress has recently increased the number of H-1B visas.

    Then just be sure to settle half those people in the drought-stricken West, where housing is already in short supply, prices are up 20-30% in just the last year, and the homeless have taken over our cities.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Alden, @International Jew, @Supply and Demand

    I do hope they all move to Santa Clara County Ca. and take over the local campuses of Stanford San Jose State U Santa Clara U and google Facebook and the rest of the “ Only non White HI Bs shall apply” tech company campuses. . And the nicer residential sections of the towns.

  34. Voting doesn’t matter. It hasn’t mattered for a long time in the US. It can’t matter any less if true universal suffrage is the policy of the land. Wets, overstays, kids, felons. No matter at all. Don’t waste your outrage because it just doesn’t matter

    We’re not in Kansas any more. Let’s go see the Wizard!

  35. Harpo Marx wrote a delightful account of the great Election Day celebrations of his childhood:

    There was one supreme holiday every two years, and there was nothing sad about it. This was not a family affair. It belonged to everybody. The poorest kind in town had as much a share in it as the mayor himself.
    [. . .]
    The great holiday lasted a full thirty hours. On election eve, the Tammany forces marched up and down the avenues by torchlight, with bugles blaring and drums booming. There was free beer for the men, and free firecrackers and punk for the kids, and nobody slept that night.

    When the Day itself dawned, the city closed up shop and had itself a big social time—visiting with itself, renewing old acquaintances, kicking up old arguments—and voted.

    About noon a hansom cab, courtesy of Tammany Hall, would pull up in front of our house. Frenchie [Harpo’s father] and Grandpa, dressed in their best suits (which they otherwise wore only to weddings, bar mitzahs or funerals, would get in the cab and go clip-clop, in tip-top style, off to the polls. When the carriage brought them back they sat in the hansom as long as they could without the driver getting sore, savoring every moment of their glory while they puffed on their free Tammany cigars.

    At last, reluctantly, they would descend to the curb, and Frenchie would make the grand gesture of handing the cabbie a tip. Kids watching in the streets and neighbors watching from upstairs windows were properly impressed.

    About a half-hour later, the hansom cab would reappear, and Frenchie and Grandpa would go off to vote again. If it was a tough year, with a Reform movement threatening the city, they’d be taken to vote a third time.

    Nobody was concerned over the fact that Grandpa happened not to be a United States citizen, or that he couldn’t read or write English. He knew which side of the ballot to put his “X” on. That was the important thing. Besides, Grandpa’s son-in-law’s cousin was Sam Marx, a Big Man in the Organization. Cousin Sam had a lot to say about whose name appeared under a black star on the ballot. And it was he who made sure the carriage was sent to 179 at voting time. A man of principle, which Grandpa was, had no choice but to return the courtesy by voting.

    Then came the Night. The streets were cleared of horses, buggies and wagons. All crosstown traffic stopped. At seven o’clock firecrackers began to go off, the signal that the polls were closed. Whooping and hollering, a whole generation of kids came tumbling down out of the tenements and got their bonfires going. By a quarter after seven, the East Side was ablaze.
    [. . .]
    Grandpa enjoyed the sight as much as I did, and he was flattered when I left the rest of the boys to come up to share it with him. He pulled his chair closer to the window and lit the butt of his Tammany stogie. “Ah, we are lucky to be in America,” he said in German, taking a deep drag on the cigar he got for voting illegally and lifting his head to watch the shooting flames. “Ah, yes! This is true democracy.”

    I had no idea what Grandpa was talking about, but he was a man of great faith and whatever he said was the truth.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @John Mansfield

    In real life, Harpo Marx was extremely articulate.

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

  36. @ThreeCranes
    The nation state exists to represent the rights of its citizens. Without the protection of this more comprehensive entity, individual citizens are powerless before the organized forces in this world which seek to benefit at their expense. Why would a nation open its policy making apparatus to antagonists? It's pretty simple really.

    By the way, Steve, have you ever considered relatedness between people as determined by ease of organ transplantability/receptiveness (without the need for or minimal use of immunosuppressant drugs) as a criterion of extended genetic family? That would seem to be a pretty objective standard.

    Replies: @donut, @jamie b., @AnotherDad

    “The nation state exists to represent the rights of its citizens.” How quaint .

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    @donut

    Well, obviously, by my definition, the present government of the United States is an impostor.

  37. @Clyde
    For Atossa Araxia Abrahamian the real test is not what she says and writes. We know this will be self-justification drivel. For her toss in rootless cosmopolitan. What Unzites want to see is her photo. >>> https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/the-nation-names-atossa-araxia-abrahamian-senior-editor/
    https://i.imgur.com/5cRsB3n.jpg


     

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Whataboutery2020, @Neil Templeton

    WNB

  38. @John Mansfield
    Harpo Marx wrote a delightful account of the great Election Day celebrations of his childhood:

    There was one supreme holiday every two years, and there was nothing sad about it. This was not a family affair. It belonged to everybody. The poorest kind in town had as much a share in it as the mayor himself.
    [. . .]
    The great holiday lasted a full thirty hours. On election eve, the Tammany forces marched up and down the avenues by torchlight, with bugles blaring and drums booming. There was free beer for the men, and free firecrackers and punk for the kids, and nobody slept that night.

    When the Day itself dawned, the city closed up shop and had itself a big social time—visiting with itself, renewing old acquaintances, kicking up old arguments—and voted.

    About noon a hansom cab, courtesy of Tammany Hall, would pull up in front of our house. Frenchie [Harpo’s father] and Grandpa, dressed in their best suits (which they otherwise wore only to weddings, bar mitzahs or funerals, would get in the cab and go clip-clop, in tip-top style, off to the polls. When the carriage brought them back they sat in the hansom as long as they could without the driver getting sore, savoring every moment of their glory while they puffed on their free Tammany cigars.

    At last, reluctantly, they would descend to the curb, and Frenchie would make the grand gesture of handing the cabbie a tip. Kids watching in the streets and neighbors watching from upstairs windows were properly impressed.

    About a half-hour later, the hansom cab would reappear, and Frenchie and Grandpa would go off to vote again. If it was a tough year, with a Reform movement threatening the city, they’d be taken to vote a third time.

    Nobody was concerned over the fact that Grandpa happened not to be a United States citizen, or that he couldn’t read or write English. He knew which side of the ballot to put his “X” on. That was the important thing. Besides, Grandpa’s son-in-law’s cousin was Sam Marx, a Big Man in the Organization. Cousin Sam had a lot to say about whose name appeared under a black star on the ballot. And it was he who made sure the carriage was sent to 179 at voting time. A man of principle, which Grandpa was, had no choice but to return the courtesy by voting.

    Then came the Night. The streets were cleared of horses, buggies and wagons. All crosstown traffic stopped. At seven o’clock firecrackers began to go off, the signal that the polls were closed. Whooping and hollering, a whole generation of kids came tumbling down out of the tenements and got their bonfires going. By a quarter after seven, the East Side was ablaze.
    [. . .]
    Grandpa enjoyed the sight as much as I did, and he was flattered when I left the rest of the boys to come up to share it with him. He pulled his chair closer to the window and lit the butt of his Tammany stogie. “Ah, we are lucky to be in America,” he said in German, taking a deep drag on the cigar he got for voting illegally and lifting his head to watch the shooting flames. “Ah, yes! This is true democracy.”

    I had no idea what Grandpa was talking about, but he was a man of great faith and whatever he said was the truth.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    In real life, Harpo Marx was extremely articulate.

    • Replies: @Abolish_public_education
    @Steve Sailer

    His harping and musicianship were excellent, also.

    Nearly 15 million people living legally in the United States, most of whom contribute as much as any natural-born American to this country’s civic .. and economic life

    That includes a bunch of foreign nationals who work for private sector, foreign based multinational corporations. Like Japanese managers at Toyota USA. I have no problem with letting them vote in US civil elections.

    But the number also includes negative value, foreign bureaucrats. They should NOT be allowed to vote. Indeed, they should all be declared persona non grata and sent packing.

    Tax leeches should not be allowed to vote. If we cutoff their tax (oxygen) supply, e.g. a_p_e, many of them will self-deport.

    Replies: @anon

  39. Throughout the period of the Roman Republic, citizenship was highly prized and rarely given. After conquering all of Italy, only descendants of Romans were allowed citizenship and the attendant right to vote. All the Italian provinces revolted in Social Wars until Rome acquiesced and starting granting citizenship and some attendant rights to its Italian “allies”. But for a long time they were never really considered “Roman”—-e.g. Cicero, who came from a town not very far from Rome and which had been under Roman control for centuries, and who was a zealous defender of the Republic, was derided as a “new man” and not really Roman.

    In the Bible, Paul’s Roman citizenship (which is never explained, as he was also Jewish) grants him the right to a criminal trial in Rome and (according to legend) the more honorable death of a beheading rather than crucifixion, unlike the non-Romans Jesus and Peter, who were dishonorably killed via crucifixion in the places they were arrested.

    But by the end of Rome, citizenship was given out like candy, as it got you nothing— because everyone was getting all the benefits of citizenship regardless; your vote didn’t count (emperor fixed all votes or the military had coups), the trials were all the same, and Romans didn’t have any unity with one another anymore (e.g. Romans in the East didn’t even get bothered when the west was overrrun). A late emperor granted almost everyone in the empire Roman citizenship, and nobody cared; it was only so the emperor could tax everyone.

    By watering down the value of citizenship, the Romans made “being Roman” a nonentity. Nobody cared, and nobody had any loyalty. So when the barbarians came conquering or a rebellion was hatched or provinces broke off, other parts of the empire didn’t lift a finger or get upset, and locals didn’t send out pleas for help, but instead turned to local strong men or else simply joined the barbarians.

    Patriotism dies when citizenship means nothing.

    I have no idea why this article reminded me of that.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @R.G. Camara

    Thanks.

    , @Francis Miville
    @R.G. Camara

    As the Empire proper was instated the only practical way for you to vote was with your feet, that is to say enlisting in a legion obeying such or such prospect emperor rather than another : the one enjoying the obedience of most legions was adopted quite automatically. Elections at senatorial level meant nothing as it had turned out since Cicero's time that senators represented only the big money party, while emperors or would-be emperors were the plebeians' only hope.

  40. Atossa Araxia

    That sounds like a skin condition.

    But it’s actually a relatively recent convention and a political choice.

    She’s right about this. Only since 1926 has every state required US citzenship for voters. Before that, the empty interior states would grant immigrants who had started the naturalization process to vote after six months in the state. This was to entice the more civic-minded to choose their state in which to homestead.

    Needless to say, such factors as the cost of emigration, lack of public welfare benefits, and paucity of urban jobs in such states served as selective pressures.

    Arkansas was the last state to eliminate noncitizen voting in 1926…

    After the others had abandoned it during the First World War. Including Wisconsin, the first state to enact it, in 1848. Let’s see, 1926 – 1848 = 78 years. During that time, blacks and women– i.e., Americans– were given the franchise in every state.

    …and it wasn’t until 1996 that Congress doubled down with the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which made voting in federal elections while foreign — already not permitted because of state-level rules — a criminal, and deportable, offense.

    Perhaps Congress has the authority to do this under immigration law, but it seems to go too far. Voter qualifications should be left up to the states.

    Another misconception is that citizen voting rights have always been the prerogative of the federal government. In fact, states have largely decided who had a say in local, state and national elections

    “Largely”? Except for amendments that can be counted on one hand, followed by questionable Supreme Court decisions, states have entirely decided who had a say.

    Last fall, I grew so frustrated that I started mailing ballots [sic] to my hometown in Switzerland.

    Where women have been voting in federal elections since 1977. And why is “ballots” in the plural?

    • Replies: @Tono Bungay
    @Reg Cæsar

    It was a different world in 1926, and granting the vote to noncitizens then was quite different too. Someone who settled in Wisconsin or Minnesota was unlikely to be bouncing back to his home country whenever he felt like it.

  41. Cosmopolitan authoress Atossa not a Chosenite, but married to one.

  42. @R.G. Camara
    Throughout the period of the Roman Republic, citizenship was highly prized and rarely given. After conquering all of Italy, only descendants of Romans were allowed citizenship and the attendant right to vote. All the Italian provinces revolted in Social Wars until Rome acquiesced and starting granting citizenship and some attendant rights to its Italian "allies". But for a long time they were never really considered "Roman"----e.g. Cicero, who came from a town not very far from Rome and which had been under Roman control for centuries, and who was a zealous defender of the Republic, was derided as a "new man" and not really Roman.

    In the Bible, Paul's Roman citizenship (which is never explained, as he was also Jewish) grants him the right to a criminal trial in Rome and (according to legend) the more honorable death of a beheading rather than crucifixion, unlike the non-Romans Jesus and Peter, who were dishonorably killed via crucifixion in the places they were arrested.

    But by the end of Rome, citizenship was given out like candy, as it got you nothing--- because everyone was getting all the benefits of citizenship regardless; your vote didn't count (emperor fixed all votes or the military had coups), the trials were all the same, and Romans didn't have any unity with one another anymore (e.g. Romans in the East didn't even get bothered when the west was overrrun). A late emperor granted almost everyone in the empire Roman citizenship, and nobody cared; it was only so the emperor could tax everyone.

    By watering down the value of citizenship, the Romans made "being Roman" a nonentity. Nobody cared, and nobody had any loyalty. So when the barbarians came conquering or a rebellion was hatched or provinces broke off, other parts of the empire didn't lift a finger or get upset, and locals didn't send out pleas for help, but instead turned to local strong men or else simply joined the barbarians.

    Patriotism dies when citizenship means nothing.

    I have no idea why this article reminded me of that.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Francis Miville

    Thanks.

  43. John Prine wrote that song with Steve Goodman. I don’t know if David Allen Coe did anything but sing it.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @JMcG

    Thanks.

    Presumably, Coe came up with some of the talking part.

    Replies: @Ganderson

  44. @donut
    @ThreeCranes

    "The nation state exists to represent the rights of its citizens." How quaint .

    Replies: @ThreeCranes

    Well, obviously, by my definition, the present government of the United States is an impostor.

  45. Last fall, I grew so frustrated that I started mailing ballots to my hometown in Switzerland.

    ‘Ballots.’ Plural.

    I assume she mailed in a few for Biden, too.

    • Replies: @Peter D. Bredon
    @Gamecock

    "my hometown in Switzerland."

    Said no one ever, other than Blofeld.

  46. @JMcG
    John Prine wrote that song with Steve Goodman. I don’t know if David Allen Coe did anything but sing it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Thanks.

    Presumably, Coe came up with some of the talking part.

    • Agree: JMcG
    • Replies: @Ganderson
    @Steve Sailer

    I saw Steve Goodman about a million times- he always said that Coe had sent him the verse that made it the perfect C&W song:

    “Well, I was drunk the day my mom got out of prison
    And I went to pick her up in the rain
    But before I could get to the station in my pickup truck
    She got run over by a damned old train”

    Some quick googling suggests that Coe had complained that song was not the perfect country song; after which Goodman wrote the above verse. I never heard that Prine had anything to do with the song. Don’t really know, though.

    Fun fact (too good to check, anyway) Goodman and the HildaBeast were high school classmates.

    Even after almost 40 years I miss Ol’ Steve. He was funny, and wrote some damn good songs. One cool thing about going to a Cubs game is the singing of “Go Cubs Go” after every win. Could be the only decent thing left in Chicago. Well, that and Ann Sather’s cinnamon buns.

    Replies: @JMcG

  47. She seems to have a distaste for qualifications in the particular case of voting rights. I wonder how far this goes. Would she mind if I worked on her teeth?

  48. @Kratoklastes
    Abrahamian... it's the Armenian cognate of Abramovitz.

    Every.Single.Time.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    Abrahamian… it’s the Armenian cognate of Abramovitz. Every.Single.Time.

    Nah, it’s her husband’s name.

  49. I’m trying to get a sense of who she is. Certain details are scarce. Her parents were UN employees (diplomats? bureaucrats?) who were part of the Iranian diaspora in Canada. She has some Russian blood too. Despite not being an American citizen, she attended Columbia. She’s worked for Reuters and Al Jazeera, and has occasionally written for the New York Times over a decade. She has some relationship to the historian Ervand Abrahamian but I can’t tell if it’s by blood or by marriage.

    She’s been writing for years about topics like: small countries that sell citizenship to the wealthy; libertarian seasteading (from an unsympathetic point of view); how billionaires and their money can easily cross borders. In a tweet she says billionaires shouldn’t exist, and she’s written for leftist (?) American publications like “The Nation”, “Dissent”, and “n plus one”. So she seems to be one of those well-off “leftists” who hate the border-crossing super-rich, but who want refugees and other assorted migrants to cross the borders just as freely.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Mitchell Porter

    Armenian.

    Replies: @Mitchell Porter, @Mitchell Porter

  50. Just tried to change parties in California. You need to provide an ID, Driver’s license, ID, number, last four digit number of Social Security number in order to register as a California voter

    • Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost
    @Michelle

    That’s so racist! California is so Jim Crow!

    Replies: @Michelle

  51. @Mitchell Porter
    I'm trying to get a sense of who she is. Certain details are scarce. Her parents were UN employees (diplomats? bureaucrats?) who were part of the Iranian diaspora in Canada. She has some Russian blood too. Despite not being an American citizen, she attended Columbia. She's worked for Reuters and Al Jazeera, and has occasionally written for the New York Times over a decade. She has some relationship to the historian Ervand Abrahamian but I can't tell if it's by blood or by marriage.

    She's been writing for years about topics like: small countries that sell citizenship to the wealthy; libertarian seasteading (from an unsympathetic point of view); how billionaires and their money can easily cross borders. In a tweet she says billionaires shouldn't exist, and she's written for leftist (?) American publications like "The Nation", "Dissent", and "n plus one". So she seems to be one of those well-off "leftists" who hate the border-crossing super-rich, but who want refugees and other assorted migrants to cross the borders just as freely.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Armenian.

    • Replies: @Mitchell Porter
    @Steve Sailer

    I realized something missing from this discussion: her Russian and Armenian parents, based in Geneva and working for the UN, were working in Iran and conceived a child there in the 1980s. The Soviet Union still existed then! They were probably part of a Soviet presence in Iran during the revolutionary period, of Khomeini's war to unseat Saddam Hussein, a time when Iran's relations with the entire world were strained. (They may or may not have been in pre-revolutionary Iran too. I wonder how many degrees of separation they were from Valerie Jarratt's parents.)

    It would give a new context to her journalism and opinions - reporting on rich people buying citizenship, while herself believing that "billionaires shouldn't exist". If her parents really were Soviet diplomats based in Geneva, it would mean her family's very profession was to hang out in the rich capitalist west while representing an anti-capitalist ideology.

    PS wait I just realized the parents were *born in Iran*... maybe both were diplo-babies? ... a complicated lineage

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Mitchell Porter
    @Steve Sailer

    OK, second theory: her parents are primarily Iranian Armenians, and might have represented the Islamic Republic in Geneva, and the real riddle is how they obtained an admixture of Russian as well. There was a time in the 19th century when Russia invaded Iran and took some of the Armenian territory, but here we're trying to explain how some Russian blood ended up on the Iranian side of the border...

    Replies: @Mitchell Porter

  52. Ezekiel Kweku, Opinion’s politics editor

    William Safire couldn’t get a job at the Times today.

  53. @Wilkey
    @SFG


    They are really desperate to dissolve the people and elect another, aren’t they?
     
    If estimates are to be believed, Biden is going to let over 2 million illegals into the country this year alone. That's above and beyond the ~1.5 million legal immigrants that are coming. That's 3.5 million people - more people than live in 21 US states. More people than live in Nevada, Utah, or Arkansas.

    Recall that Biden has also massively increased the number of refugee admissions and that Congress has recently increased the number of H-1B visas.

    Then just be sure to settle half those people in the drought-stricken West, where housing is already in short supply, prices are up 20-30% in just the last year, and the homeless have taken over our cities.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Alden, @International Jew, @Supply and Demand

    “They need to go back.” I’m hoping for a Republican President who will talk like Trump but also follow through. There’ll be a lot of people to deport by then, and the media will raise holy hell, but deport we must.

    • Agree: AnotherDad
  54. @Clyde
    For Atossa Araxia Abrahamian the real test is not what she says and writes. We know this will be self-justification drivel. For her toss in rootless cosmopolitan. What Unzites want to see is her photo. >>> https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/the-nation-names-atossa-araxia-abrahamian-senior-editor/
    https://i.imgur.com/5cRsB3n.jpg


     

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Whataboutery2020, @Neil Templeton

    Surely that’s a bloke?

  55. @JohnnyWalker123
    A new show offers a glimpse into youth 'dating' culture.

    https://twitter.com/hbomax/status/1420859176230608896

    https://twitter.com/NikkiGlaser/status/1420758772486578187

    I have a feeling most of the posters here are "FBoys."

    Replies: @interesting

    That is as dumb as it gets. Anyone who would watch that needs to get a life.

  56. Anonymous[332] • Disclaimer says:

    “There’s no good reason why young men born in the USA should fight and die in wars at the behest of the US government”.

  57. Anonymous[332] • Disclaimer says:

    This was a manifesto promise in the 2019 General Election by the British Labour Party.

    They lost that election badly.

  58. @Clyde
    For Atossa Araxia Abrahamian the real test is not what she says and writes. We know this will be self-justification drivel. For her toss in rootless cosmopolitan. What Unzites want to see is her photo. >>> https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/the-nation-names-atossa-araxia-abrahamian-senior-editor/
    https://i.imgur.com/5cRsB3n.jpg


     

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Whataboutery2020, @Neil Templeton

    Atossa, love you, you’re pretty for a Persian, but I don’t care.

  59. @ThreeCranes
    The nation state exists to represent the rights of its citizens. Without the protection of this more comprehensive entity, individual citizens are powerless before the organized forces in this world which seek to benefit at their expense. Why would a nation open its policy making apparatus to antagonists? It's pretty simple really.

    By the way, Steve, have you ever considered relatedness between people as determined by ease of organ transplantability/receptiveness (without the need for or minimal use of immunosuppressant drugs) as a criterion of extended genetic family? That would seem to be a pretty objective standard.

    Replies: @donut, @jamie b., @AnotherDad

    …relatedness between people as determined by ease of organ transplantability/receptiveness…

    Immunological techniques were originally used before DNA to reconstruct phylogenic trees. You mix proteins from one species with antibodies from another. The more agglutination (measured as turbidity), the more distantly related the species. They were doing this way back in the 50’s. Don’t know how well it would work for conspecifics.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    @jamie b.

    Thanks for that.

  60. Democracy only works when voters have a vested interest in a positive social outcome. If voting were to become an electoral free-for-all that’s inclusive of culturally disconnected, indifferent or even hostile foreign people (i.e., non-citizens), democracy would turn into a form of mass bribery perpetrated by power hungry politicians appealing to something other than civic virtue, and that would not qualify as a positive outcome. If leftists are worried about hatred directed towards immigrants by natives, just give the vote to non-citizens and see what happens. If that doesn’t register with their feeble brains, then they only need to imagine all of those non-citizen voters being nationalist oriented Russians…and ponder how they would feel about them.

    Many people today (of many political persuasions) don’t believe the notion that it’s difficult to make democracy work properly, as the founders warned. They seem to think that democracy is a natural collective human tendency, while the founders believed the opposite. It’s easy to make democracy fail, and giving the vote to non-citizens would accomplish that.

    • Replies: @Peter D. Bredon
    @J1234

    "They seem to think that democracy is a natural collective human tendency, while the founders believed the opposite. "

    It's like those libertarian idiots, who think that "free markets" are natural, and would spring up if you just stripped off the government "interference." The Harvard gang (Jeffrey Sachs etc.) tried that line in the ex-Soviet Union, resulting in the rise of the Oligarchs (just as Marx had predicted: the first stage of capitalism is "primitive accumulation" i.e. gangsters and warlords loot the commons).

  61. @Mitchell Porter
    I find myself wondering if she is more like Marie Antoinette or Elena Ceausescu, that is, is this a naive proposal made from a position of privilege, or is she conscious that this is a hostile act directed at class enemies?

    Replies: @AndrewR

    In her case, it might be privileged naïveté. But her bosses know exactly what they’re doing.

  62. The two million a year illegals being resettled will be voting in the next election, as well as the 20 or 30 million already here for a redistribution from you to them. The Democrats are either salivating, or that is the drool of power-mad dementia?

  63. @Reg Cæsar

    Atossa Araxia
     
    That sounds like a skin condition.

    But it’s actually a relatively recent convention and a political choice.
     
    She's right about this. Only since 1926 has every state required US citzenship for voters. Before that, the empty interior states would grant immigrants who had started the naturalization process to vote after six months in the state. This was to entice the more civic-minded to choose their state in which to homestead.

    Needless to say, such factors as the cost of emigration, lack of public welfare benefits, and paucity of urban jobs in such states served as selective pressures.

    Arkansas was the last state to eliminate noncitizen voting in 1926...
     
    After the others had abandoned it during the First World War. Including Wisconsin, the first state to enact it, in 1848. Let's see, 1926 - 1848 = 78 years. During that time, blacks and women-- i.e., Americans-- were given the franchise in every state.

    ...and it wasn’t until 1996 that Congress doubled down with the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which made voting in federal elections while foreign — already not permitted because of state-level rules — a criminal, and deportable, offense.
     
    Perhaps Congress has the authority to do this under immigration law, but it seems to go too far. Voter qualifications should be left up to the states.

    Another misconception is that citizen voting rights have always been the prerogative of the federal government. In fact, states have largely decided who had a say in local, state and national elections
     
    "Largely"? Except for amendments that can be counted on one hand, followed by questionable Supreme Court decisions, states have entirely decided who had a say.

    Last fall, I grew so frustrated that I started mailing ballots [sic] to my hometown in Switzerland.
     
    Where women have been voting in federal elections since 1977. And why is "ballots" in the plural?

    Replies: @Tono Bungay

    It was a different world in 1926, and granting the vote to noncitizens then was quite different too. Someone who settled in Wisconsin or Minnesota was unlikely to be bouncing back to his home country whenever he felt like it.

  64. Abrahamian was born in Canada and grew up in Switzerland. Her parents, who are Iranians of Armenian and Russian descent, worked for the United Nations. She holds Swiss, Canadian and Iranian citizenship

    IMHO someone who is a citizen of 3 countries is really a citizen of none of them.
    What a combination of countries, and a Jewish husband in tow as well.

  65. @Steve Sailer
    @JMcG

    Thanks.

    Presumably, Coe came up with some of the talking part.

    Replies: @Ganderson

    I saw Steve Goodman about a million times- he always said that Coe had sent him the verse that made it the perfect C&W song:

    “Well, I was drunk the day my mom got out of prison
    And I went to pick her up in the rain
    But before I could get to the station in my pickup truck
    She got run over by a damned old train”

    Some quick googling suggests that Coe had complained that song was not the perfect country song; after which Goodman wrote the above verse. I never heard that Prine had anything to do with the song. Don’t really know, though.

    Fun fact (too good to check, anyway) Goodman and the HildaBeast were high school classmates.

    Even after almost 40 years I miss Ol’ Steve. He was funny, and wrote some damn good songs. One cool thing about going to a Cubs game is the singing of “Go Cubs Go” after every win. Could be the only decent thing left in Chicago. Well, that and Ann Sather’s cinnamon buns.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Ganderson

    Steve Goodman used to refer to himself as Cool Hand Leuk. It was a reference to the disease that eventually killed him.
    Wikipedia! States that Prine and Goodman wrote the song, with Prine asking to be uncredited. I’d always heard he was a co-writer. I can certainly believe that Coe wrote the ending.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  66. secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity

    Posterity now means the children we wish we would have had, from Guatemala and Somalia.

  67. @Wilkey
    @SFG


    They are really desperate to dissolve the people and elect another, aren’t they?
     
    If estimates are to be believed, Biden is going to let over 2 million illegals into the country this year alone. That's above and beyond the ~1.5 million legal immigrants that are coming. That's 3.5 million people - more people than live in 21 US states. More people than live in Nevada, Utah, or Arkansas.

    Recall that Biden has also massively increased the number of refugee admissions and that Congress has recently increased the number of H-1B visas.

    Then just be sure to settle half those people in the drought-stricken West, where housing is already in short supply, prices are up 20-30% in just the last year, and the homeless have taken over our cities.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Alden, @International Jew, @Supply and Demand

    You should have voted Democrat, then!

  68. @Michelle
    Just tried to change parties in California. You need to provide an ID, Driver's license, ID, number, last four digit number of Social Security number in order to register as a California voter

    Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost

    That’s so racist! California is so Jim Crow!

    • Replies: @Michelle
    @John Milton’s Ghost

    I know, huh!

  69. @jamie b.
    @ThreeCranes


    ...relatedness between people as determined by ease of organ transplantability/receptiveness...
     
    Immunological techniques were originally used before DNA to reconstruct phylogenic trees. You mix proteins from one species with antibodies from another. The more agglutination (measured as turbidity), the more distantly related the species. They were doing this way back in the 50's. Don't know how well it would work for conspecifics.

    Replies: @ThreeCranes

    Thanks for that.

  70. Actually for once I agree : people who have been working for American businesses anywhere in the world should be allowed to vote at national level. People who master American English and mix with Americans online for business, or use regularly a social network based in the US and have been determined by AI to master American English, should also be given the right to vote. After all, as Hamilton said, America’s business is business. Esperanto should be made an alternative official language in the US and anybody in the world acknowledged to master Esperanto (that takes one month to master at most) should be allowed to vote at the US elections.

  71. “The Rootless Cosmopolitan Case for…”

    • Replies: @bigdicknick
    @James J O'Meara

    the conservative case for open borders for israel

  72. @R.G. Camara
    Throughout the period of the Roman Republic, citizenship was highly prized and rarely given. After conquering all of Italy, only descendants of Romans were allowed citizenship and the attendant right to vote. All the Italian provinces revolted in Social Wars until Rome acquiesced and starting granting citizenship and some attendant rights to its Italian "allies". But for a long time they were never really considered "Roman"----e.g. Cicero, who came from a town not very far from Rome and which had been under Roman control for centuries, and who was a zealous defender of the Republic, was derided as a "new man" and not really Roman.

    In the Bible, Paul's Roman citizenship (which is never explained, as he was also Jewish) grants him the right to a criminal trial in Rome and (according to legend) the more honorable death of a beheading rather than crucifixion, unlike the non-Romans Jesus and Peter, who were dishonorably killed via crucifixion in the places they were arrested.

    But by the end of Rome, citizenship was given out like candy, as it got you nothing--- because everyone was getting all the benefits of citizenship regardless; your vote didn't count (emperor fixed all votes or the military had coups), the trials were all the same, and Romans didn't have any unity with one another anymore (e.g. Romans in the East didn't even get bothered when the west was overrrun). A late emperor granted almost everyone in the empire Roman citizenship, and nobody cared; it was only so the emperor could tax everyone.

    By watering down the value of citizenship, the Romans made "being Roman" a nonentity. Nobody cared, and nobody had any loyalty. So when the barbarians came conquering or a rebellion was hatched or provinces broke off, other parts of the empire didn't lift a finger or get upset, and locals didn't send out pleas for help, but instead turned to local strong men or else simply joined the barbarians.

    Patriotism dies when citizenship means nothing.

    I have no idea why this article reminded me of that.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Francis Miville

    As the Empire proper was instated the only practical way for you to vote was with your feet, that is to say enlisting in a legion obeying such or such prospect emperor rather than another : the one enjoying the obedience of most legions was adopted quite automatically. Elections at senatorial level meant nothing as it had turned out since Cicero’s time that senators represented only the big money party, while emperors or would-be emperors were the plebeians’ only hope.

    • Thanks: R.G. Camara
  73. “I’m looking forward to the City Council giving me, and the other million or so friendly aliens living here, the right to vote for New York’s officials. ”

    The most charitable interpretation of her proposal is, as noted by a comment above, she wants to have the rights of a citizen without paying taxes. Why would any jurisdiction grant someone such a privilege? It would be like a small state voting to abolish the Electoral College and lose all political influence.

    Of course, many of our “representatives” do not have self-preservation in mind, or at least not preservation of us, but a rather different, barely hidden agenda. Other than Seattle, and possibly Minneapolis, I can’t think of a more likely city to grant voting rights to “friendly” aliens than NYC.

  74. “I’m looking forward to the City Council giving me, and the other million or so friendly aliens living here, the right to vote for New York’s officials. ”

    The most charitable interpretation of her proposal is, as noted by a comment above, she wants to have the rights of a citizen without paying taxes. Why would any jurisdiction grant someone such a privilege?

    This is exactly why the vote was originally granted only to people with substantial property holdings. — “skin in the game.” If just anyone can vote, they would of course simply raid the treasury for goodies (“human rights”). I believe one of the FF’s said just that: democracy would last until the poor realized they had the keys to the treasury.

    Arguably, once that was abrogated, the slippery slope began. IF dirt-poor “citizens” can vote themselves treats, why NOT foreigners?

  75. @J1234
    Democracy only works when voters have a vested interest in a positive social outcome. If voting were to become an electoral free-for-all that's inclusive of culturally disconnected, indifferent or even hostile foreign people (i.e., non-citizens), democracy would turn into a form of mass bribery perpetrated by power hungry politicians appealing to something other than civic virtue, and that would not qualify as a positive outcome. If leftists are worried about hatred directed towards immigrants by natives, just give the vote to non-citizens and see what happens. If that doesn't register with their feeble brains, then they only need to imagine all of those non-citizen voters being nationalist oriented Russians...and ponder how they would feel about them.

    Many people today (of many political persuasions) don't believe the notion that it's difficult to make democracy work properly, as the founders warned. They seem to think that democracy is a natural collective human tendency, while the founders believed the opposite. It's easy to make democracy fail, and giving the vote to non-citizens would accomplish that.

    Replies: @Peter D. Bredon

    “They seem to think that democracy is a natural collective human tendency, while the founders believed the opposite. ”

    It’s like those libertarian idiots, who think that “free markets” are natural, and would spring up if you just stripped off the government “interference.” The Harvard gang (Jeffrey Sachs etc.) tried that line in the ex-Soviet Union, resulting in the rise of the Oligarchs (just as Marx had predicted: the first stage of capitalism is “primitive accumulation” i.e. gangsters and warlords loot the commons).

  76. @Gamecock

    Last fall, I grew so frustrated that I started mailing ballots to my hometown in Switzerland.
     
    'Ballots.' Plural.

    I assume she mailed in a few for Biden, too.

    Replies: @Peter D. Bredon

    “my hometown in Switzerland.”

    Said no one ever, other than Blofeld.

  77. “my hometown in Switzerland.”

    Sitting out on the porch in the cool summer nights, the sound of cicadas, kids running around with sparklers, counting the fireflies. A simpler, better time.

  78. @James J O'Meara
    "The Rootless Cosmopolitan Case for..."

    Replies: @bigdicknick

    the conservative case for open borders for israel

  79. @Steve Sailer
    @Mitchell Porter

    Armenian.

    Replies: @Mitchell Porter, @Mitchell Porter

    I realized something missing from this discussion: her Russian and Armenian parents, based in Geneva and working for the UN, were working in Iran and conceived a child there in the 1980s. The Soviet Union still existed then! They were probably part of a Soviet presence in Iran during the revolutionary period, of Khomeini’s war to unseat Saddam Hussein, a time when Iran’s relations with the entire world were strained. (They may or may not have been in pre-revolutionary Iran too. I wonder how many degrees of separation they were from Valerie Jarratt’s parents.)

    It would give a new context to her journalism and opinions – reporting on rich people buying citizenship, while herself believing that “billionaires shouldn’t exist”. If her parents really were Soviet diplomats based in Geneva, it would mean her family’s very profession was to hang out in the rich capitalist west while representing an anti-capitalist ideology.

    PS wait I just realized the parents were *born in Iran*… maybe both were diplo-babies? … a complicated lineage

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Mitchell Porter

    The Armenians down the street from me were born in Iran. The Iranians didn't massacre Armenians like the Ottomans did, so it was an okay refuge for them.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @JMcG

  80. @Steve Sailer
    @John Mansfield

    In real life, Harpo Marx was extremely articulate.

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

    His harping and musicianship were excellent, also.

    Nearly 15 million people living legally in the United States, most of whom contribute as much as any natural-born American to this country’s civic .. and economic life

    That includes a bunch of foreign nationals who work for private sector, foreign based multinational corporations. Like Japanese managers at Toyota USA. I have no problem with letting them vote in US civil elections.

    But the number also includes negative value, foreign bureaucrats. They should NOT be allowed to vote. Indeed, they should all be declared persona non grata and sent packing.

    Tax leeches should not be allowed to vote. If we cutoff their tax (oxygen) supply, e.g. a_p_e, many of them will self-deport.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Abolish_public_education

    That includes a bunch of foreign nationals who work for private sector, foreign based multinational corporations. Like Japanese managers at Toyota USA. I have no problem with letting them vote in US civil elections.

    I do. They are foreigners with foreign thought patterns. They don't know the culture of my land. Sorta like Californians, in fact.

    Heck, I wish I could convince my state government to not let Californians vote for at least 4 years after moving here.

  81. @Steve Sailer
    @Mitchell Porter

    Armenian.

    Replies: @Mitchell Porter, @Mitchell Porter

    OK, second theory: her parents are primarily Iranian Armenians, and might have represented the Islamic Republic in Geneva, and the real riddle is how they obtained an admixture of Russian as well. There was a time in the 19th century when Russia invaded Iran and took some of the Armenian territory, but here we’re trying to explain how some Russian blood ended up on the Iranian side of the border…

    • Replies: @Mitchell Porter
    @Mitchell Porter

    Third try, and I think I finally got it right: I think this man was her father, a prominent UN development economist. There are other details that check out. If I'm right this time, her family were products of pre-revolutionary Iran, the shah's Iran; western-educated modernizers.

  82. ‘It’s easy to assume that restricting the franchise to citizens is an age-old, nonnegotiable fact. But it’s actually a relatively recent convention and a political choice.’

    It’d date back 2500 years — to wit, ancient Athens. Arguably, further than that. After all, Ogg would certainly have given more weight to the opinion of a fellow band member than he would have to that of one of the non-humans from the next valley over.

    • Replies: @Howard Sutherland
    @Colin Wright

    As does this latter-day Atossa's given name. The real Atossa was queen-consort of Darius (lost at Marathon; won in many other places) and mother of Xerxes (won at Thermopylae; drew at Artemisium; lost big at Salamis, Plataea, and Mycale - eventually assassinated). The real Atossa is portrayed bemoaning her son's defeats in Aeschylus's The Persians, written by an Athenian veteran of Marathon and Salamis. Gripping stuff.
    May our rootless - unless she's rooted in Davos? - cosmopolitan Atossa II experience wailing and gnashing of teeth, as her namesake did over Xerxes's defeats.
    Must give Persians credit for a sense of history, though. Americans could use more of that.
    I've also known Armenians - now living in California - who were born in Iran and educated in India. More welcoming hosts than the Turks, who appeared to delight in murdering, raping, and gelding Greeks, Armenians, and anyone else whose lands they managed to steal.
    As for Atossa II's voting proposal, such effrontery should be grounds for summary expulsion without appeal.

  83. I’ve always though “reciprocity” was a nice idea when dealing with foreign matters.

    So here’s a thought:

    Anyone who is a citizen from a nation that lets American citizens vote in their (free) elections should be able to vote in ours. Only in one of those elections per year of course.

    So, say, if I can vote in French elections a French citizen can vote in ours.

    I wonder how many would qualify?

  84. She is a living argument against allowing people to hold multiple citizenships and permanent residencies. It leads to the creation of a class of people like her: detached, privileged and unaccountable, loyal to themselves above all others.

    I am remembering and wondering again about how we have gone from the upper and educated classes of England volunteering for, leading and dying in the indiscriminate slaughter in the trenches of WWI to what these kinds of people are like today around the world. Those men died by the thousands for their country. This one here and her pals would shirk any proposed duty anywhere and would argue against it being expected of them. Rule without responsibility, that is our elites’ motto today.

    My answer to her is to repeat what WWII General Kinnard said to a German request for surrender: “Nuts.” I am not surrending to this, no way!

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @notsaying

    It was General Anthony McAuliffe. I think Kinnard was an aide to Bradley. I always like to think that “Nuts” was the sanitized version of his actual response.

  85. @Mitchell Porter
    @Steve Sailer

    I realized something missing from this discussion: her Russian and Armenian parents, based in Geneva and working for the UN, were working in Iran and conceived a child there in the 1980s. The Soviet Union still existed then! They were probably part of a Soviet presence in Iran during the revolutionary period, of Khomeini's war to unseat Saddam Hussein, a time when Iran's relations with the entire world were strained. (They may or may not have been in pre-revolutionary Iran too. I wonder how many degrees of separation they were from Valerie Jarratt's parents.)

    It would give a new context to her journalism and opinions - reporting on rich people buying citizenship, while herself believing that "billionaires shouldn't exist". If her parents really were Soviet diplomats based in Geneva, it would mean her family's very profession was to hang out in the rich capitalist west while representing an anti-capitalist ideology.

    PS wait I just realized the parents were *born in Iran*... maybe both were diplo-babies? ... a complicated lineage

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    The Armenians down the street from me were born in Iran. The Iranians didn’t massacre Armenians like the Ottomans did, so it was an okay refuge for them.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Iran has traditionally sided with the Armenians against the Turks and Azeris, despite the religious difference.

    Turkey is an old rival of Iran and Azerbaijan has territorial claims on parts of northern Iran.

    , @JMcG
    @Steve Sailer

    You know, it’s funny how the Armenian genocide is referred to in that way. The Ottomans killed them because they were Christian. It’s rather like referring to the holocaust as the “Eastern European Genocide.”

  86. I believe that at least into the1970’s, voter turnout in Switzerland was pretty low. There was little point in voting when post-election Switzerland would be the same as it had always been.

    What’s with this gal that she feels the need to vote in America? How many times, in how many countries, should one be allowed to vote for big government?

    [MORE]

    As much as I oppose expansion of voting rights (95% of currently registered, US voters should be disenfranchised), I really don’t care who gets to vote in US elections. Even if they’re Taliban. Yep.

    I want to hear those idiotic proponents of voting explain how one vote — as little as 0.000000014% of the total — makes a difference.

  87. Anonymous[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Mitchell Porter

    The Armenians down the street from me were born in Iran. The Iranians didn't massacre Armenians like the Ottomans did, so it was an okay refuge for them.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @JMcG

    Iran has traditionally sided with the Armenians against the Turks and Azeris, despite the religious difference.

    Turkey is an old rival of Iran and Azerbaijan has territorial claims on parts of northern Iran.

  88. Anon[162] • Disclaimer says:

    We’ve been at the same wall beating our heads for years now. Most voters did not want the changes that are occurring here presently, but the change happened and voters are left scratching their heads.

    I say, why not? It makes no never mind who gets to vote, or how many, or in what election. I say this to you all: Enjoy the time here, try and enjoy the long decline into “Power Mall One” (Brilliant name for our new America btw Sailer) and really do try and focus on your own particular work, purchasing history, savings, and the occasional ball game. Show’s over–whatever we were was dissolved through no personal fault of our own, and now we just have to try and eek out an existence that ain’t half bad compared to others throughout history. Show’s over, pack it in, gentlemen.

  89. @ThreeCranes
    The nation state exists to represent the rights of its citizens. Without the protection of this more comprehensive entity, individual citizens are powerless before the organized forces in this world which seek to benefit at their expense. Why would a nation open its policy making apparatus to antagonists? It's pretty simple really.

    By the way, Steve, have you ever considered relatedness between people as determined by ease of organ transplantability/receptiveness (without the need for or minimal use of immunosuppressant drugs) as a criterion of extended genetic family? That would seem to be a pretty objective standard.

    Replies: @donut, @jamie b., @AnotherDad

    The nation state exists to represent the rights of its citizens. Without the protection of this more comprehensive entity, individual citizens are powerless before the organized forces in this world which seek to benefit at their expense.

    As blood boiling as this crap is to read, it really does highlight the core issue:

    Parasite vs. Host

    Minoritarianism is fundamentally a middle-man-minority ideology, now taken up by additonal “global cosmopolitans”. It’s the assertion that the middle man has an inherent right to plop themselves down anywhere and everywhere and set to work looting. Basically the host population must “lie back and take it”.

    There’s no ethical or moral argument for this. It’s just assertion. Assertion backed up be smearing the community/nation’s people, culture, history …

    And it’s stupid. They have no more right to plop down wherever they please, than i do to say plop down in China, or Israel; or for that matter in Harvard, or my neighbor’s house. I.e. be an intruder.

    No such actual rights exist or, in fact, can exist You have the right to go, to leave. (Abrogation of such a right is how i knew even as kid that the commies were bad guys.) You do not have the right to come–the right to insert yourself in other’s people’s affairs–home, neighborhood, community, nation.

    In contrast normies–normal human beings–tend to think that they are entitled to live as they wish in their traditional communities and govern themselves. Normies are … normal humans!–with normal human concepts of fairness, which do not include the right of people to impose themselves upon others.

    The disparate morality of these two ideologies could not be clearer:

    Minoritarian middle-man demands that the host population must behave as the middle man demands. Open their communities and nations for looting. Essentially be their serfs. Its proponents assert the right to make other people do stuff for them. Such things can not be rights.

    The normie-nationalist in contrast asserts only the right to live in his own community, work for his/his community’s own benefit, order his affairs as he wishes and govern himself. He makes no demand on other peoples. Ergo his vision is capable of reciprocity. And he is in the right.

    All the sturm and drang around bedeviling America and the modern West, centers on this central issue: Parasite vs. host.

    • Agree: notsaying
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @AnotherDad

    Further note:

    I do not wish to deny the "global cosmopolitans" the right to live as they want. I think it's a great idea to figure out how many such folks (say people in the West) actually hold this ideology and then give them a territory for their open borders Rainbow "nation" (i.e. marketplace).

    But they have no right to impose their desire on everyone else.

    Swinging like a wrecking ball through communities, nations, civilizations ... the world! Which is what, in fact, they demand.

  90. @AnotherDad
    @ThreeCranes


    The nation state exists to represent the rights of its citizens. Without the protection of this more comprehensive entity, individual citizens are powerless before the organized forces in this world which seek to benefit at their expense.
     
    As blood boiling as this crap is to read, it really does highlight the core issue:

    Parasite vs. Host

    Minoritarianism is fundamentally a middle-man-minority ideology, now taken up by additonal "global cosmopolitans". It's the assertion that the middle man has an inherent right to plop themselves down anywhere and everywhere and set to work looting. Basically the host population must "lie back and take it".

    There's no ethical or moral argument for this. It's just assertion. Assertion backed up be smearing the community/nation's people, culture, history ...

    And it's stupid. They have no more right to plop down wherever they please, than i do to say plop down in China, or Israel; or for that matter in Harvard, or my neighbor's house. I.e. be an intruder.

    No such actual rights exist or, in fact, can exist You have the right to go, to leave. (Abrogation of such a right is how i knew even as kid that the commies were bad guys.) You do not have the right to come--the right to insert yourself in other's people's affairs--home, neighborhood, community, nation.


    In contrast normies--normal human beings--tend to think that they are entitled to live as they wish in their traditional communities and govern themselves. Normies are ... normal humans!--with normal human concepts of fairness, which do not include the right of people to impose themselves upon others.

    The disparate morality of these two ideologies could not be clearer:

    Minoritarian middle-man demands that the host population must behave as the middle man demands. Open their communities and nations for looting. Essentially be their serfs. Its proponents assert the right to make other people do stuff for them. Such things can not be rights.

    The normie-nationalist in contrast asserts only the right to live in his own community, work for his/his community's own benefit, order his affairs as he wishes and govern himself. He makes no demand on other peoples. Ergo his vision is capable of reciprocity. And he is in the right.


    All the sturm and drang around bedeviling America and the modern West, centers on this central issue: Parasite vs. host.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    Further note:

    I do not wish to deny the “global cosmopolitans” the right to live as they want. I think it’s a great idea to figure out how many such folks (say people in the West) actually hold this ideology and then give them a territory for their open borders Rainbow “nation” (i.e. marketplace).

    But they have no right to impose their desire on everyone else.

    Swinging like a wrecking ball through communities, nations, civilizations … the world! Which is what, in fact, they demand.

  91. @Mitchell Porter
    @Steve Sailer

    OK, second theory: her parents are primarily Iranian Armenians, and might have represented the Islamic Republic in Geneva, and the real riddle is how they obtained an admixture of Russian as well. There was a time in the 19th century when Russia invaded Iran and took some of the Armenian territory, but here we're trying to explain how some Russian blood ended up on the Iranian side of the border...

    Replies: @Mitchell Porter

    Third try, and I think I finally got it right: I think this man was her father, a prominent UN development economist. There are other details that check out. If I’m right this time, her family were products of pre-revolutionary Iran, the shah’s Iran; western-educated modernizers.

  92. anon[564] • Disclaimer says:
    @Abolish_public_education
    @Steve Sailer

    His harping and musicianship were excellent, also.

    Nearly 15 million people living legally in the United States, most of whom contribute as much as any natural-born American to this country’s civic .. and economic life

    That includes a bunch of foreign nationals who work for private sector, foreign based multinational corporations. Like Japanese managers at Toyota USA. I have no problem with letting them vote in US civil elections.

    But the number also includes negative value, foreign bureaucrats. They should NOT be allowed to vote. Indeed, they should all be declared persona non grata and sent packing.

    Tax leeches should not be allowed to vote. If we cutoff their tax (oxygen) supply, e.g. a_p_e, many of them will self-deport.

    Replies: @anon

    That includes a bunch of foreign nationals who work for private sector, foreign based multinational corporations. Like Japanese managers at Toyota USA. I have no problem with letting them vote in US civil elections.

    I do. They are foreigners with foreign thought patterns. They don’t know the culture of my land. Sorta like Californians, in fact.

    Heck, I wish I could convince my state government to not let Californians vote for at least 4 years after moving here.

  93. @John Milton’s Ghost
    @Michelle

    That’s so racist! California is so Jim Crow!

    Replies: @Michelle

    I know, huh!

  94. @Ganderson
    @Steve Sailer

    I saw Steve Goodman about a million times- he always said that Coe had sent him the verse that made it the perfect C&W song:

    “Well, I was drunk the day my mom got out of prison
    And I went to pick her up in the rain
    But before I could get to the station in my pickup truck
    She got run over by a damned old train”

    Some quick googling suggests that Coe had complained that song was not the perfect country song; after which Goodman wrote the above verse. I never heard that Prine had anything to do with the song. Don’t really know, though.

    Fun fact (too good to check, anyway) Goodman and the HildaBeast were high school classmates.

    Even after almost 40 years I miss Ol’ Steve. He was funny, and wrote some damn good songs. One cool thing about going to a Cubs game is the singing of “Go Cubs Go” after every win. Could be the only decent thing left in Chicago. Well, that and Ann Sather’s cinnamon buns.

    Replies: @JMcG

    Steve Goodman used to refer to himself as Cool Hand Leuk. It was a reference to the disease that eventually killed him.
    Wikipedia! States that Prine and Goodman wrote the song, with Prine asking to be uncredited. I’d always heard he was a co-writer. I can certainly believe that Coe wrote the ending.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @JMcG

    Did Prine know about Goodman's leukemia and decline taking half the royalty to help leave the Goodman family with something after Steve died?

    Bob Marley wrote down on the credit for "No Woman No Cry" the name of a saintly friend of his who ran a soup kitchen in the worst slum in Kingston.

    I like collecting anecdotes about famous people doing good turns.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Ganderson

  95. @notsaying
    She is a living argument against allowing people to hold multiple citizenships and permanent residencies. It leads to the creation of a class of people like her: detached, privileged and unaccountable, loyal to themselves above all others.

    I am remembering and wondering again about how we have gone from the upper and educated classes of England volunteering for, leading and dying in the indiscriminate slaughter in the trenches of WWI to what these kinds of people are like today around the world. Those men died by the thousands for their country. This one here and her pals would shirk any proposed duty anywhere and would argue against it being expected of them. Rule without responsibility, that is our elites' motto today.

    My answer to her is to repeat what WWII General Kinnard said to a German request for surrender: "Nuts." I am not surrending to this, no way!

    Replies: @JMcG

    It was General Anthony McAuliffe. I think Kinnard was an aide to Bradley. I always like to think that “Nuts” was the sanitized version of his actual response.

  96. @Steve Sailer
    @Mitchell Porter

    The Armenians down the street from me were born in Iran. The Iranians didn't massacre Armenians like the Ottomans did, so it was an okay refuge for them.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @JMcG

    You know, it’s funny how the Armenian genocide is referred to in that way. The Ottomans killed them because they were Christian. It’s rather like referring to the holocaust as the “Eastern European Genocide.”

  97. @JMcG
    @Ganderson

    Steve Goodman used to refer to himself as Cool Hand Leuk. It was a reference to the disease that eventually killed him.
    Wikipedia! States that Prine and Goodman wrote the song, with Prine asking to be uncredited. I’d always heard he was a co-writer. I can certainly believe that Coe wrote the ending.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Did Prine know about Goodman’s leukemia and decline taking half the royalty to help leave the Goodman family with something after Steve died?

    Bob Marley wrote down on the credit for “No Woman No Cry” the name of a saintly friend of his who ran a soup kitchen in the worst slum in Kingston.

    I like collecting anecdotes about famous people doing good turns.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Steve Sailer

    I had a dear friend many years ago who died of metastatic breast cancer. A month or so before her death, she asked if I might be able to drive her to see Lyle Lovett do a record signing at a local store. She was quite weak by that point, hair all burned away and walking only with difficulty. She had a cowboy hat on to cover her baldness.
    We waited in line to get his autograph. When he looked up and realized her condition and the effort she had made to have a word with him, he almost looked stricken. He recovered almost instantly and couldn’t have been any nicer to her. He engaged her in conversation for a few minutes and really treated her with his entire attention. When we turned away, he looked like he could have cried.
    A genuine gentleman.
    I hope to see him again someday and let him know just how much those few minutes meant to her.

    , @Ganderson
    @Steve Sailer

    Prine and Goodman were pals- and both put on a good show. Goodman often would sing “Donald and Lydia”; I think it was on his first record.

    This song has lost a bit of its poignancy since the Cubs won the World Series:

    https://youtu.be/7xBxZGQ1dJk


    I don’t think Steve ever did a song about golf, though….

  98. @Steve Sailer
    @JMcG

    Did Prine know about Goodman's leukemia and decline taking half the royalty to help leave the Goodman family with something after Steve died?

    Bob Marley wrote down on the credit for "No Woman No Cry" the name of a saintly friend of his who ran a soup kitchen in the worst slum in Kingston.

    I like collecting anecdotes about famous people doing good turns.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Ganderson

    I had a dear friend many years ago who died of metastatic breast cancer. A month or so before her death, she asked if I might be able to drive her to see Lyle Lovett do a record signing at a local store. She was quite weak by that point, hair all burned away and walking only with difficulty. She had a cowboy hat on to cover her baldness.
    We waited in line to get his autograph. When he looked up and realized her condition and the effort she had made to have a word with him, he almost looked stricken. He recovered almost instantly and couldn’t have been any nicer to her. He engaged her in conversation for a few minutes and really treated her with his entire attention. When we turned away, he looked like he could have cried.
    A genuine gentleman.
    I hope to see him again someday and let him know just how much those few minutes meant to her.

  99. In a tweet, Abrahamian thanked this SFSU professor for sharing his “vast expertise” on the subject of noncitizen voting. He is cited many times in the Wikipedia article “Right of foreigners to vote in the United States”.

  100. @Steve Sailer
    @JMcG

    Did Prine know about Goodman's leukemia and decline taking half the royalty to help leave the Goodman family with something after Steve died?

    Bob Marley wrote down on the credit for "No Woman No Cry" the name of a saintly friend of his who ran a soup kitchen in the worst slum in Kingston.

    I like collecting anecdotes about famous people doing good turns.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Ganderson

    Prine and Goodman were pals- and both put on a good show. Goodman often would sing “Donald and Lydia”; I think it was on his first record.

    This song has lost a bit of its poignancy since the Cubs won the World Series:

    I don’t think Steve ever did a song about golf, though….

  101. I didn’t expect it to get so shameless. Not even pretending that this isn’t about benefiting one particular party.

  102. @Colin Wright
    'It’s easy to assume that restricting the franchise to citizens is an age-old, nonnegotiable fact. But it’s actually a relatively recent convention and a political choice.'

    It'd date back 2500 years -- to wit, ancient Athens. Arguably, further than that. After all, Ogg would certainly have given more weight to the opinion of a fellow band member than he would have to that of one of the non-humans from the next valley over.

    Replies: @Howard Sutherland

    As does this latter-day Atossa’s given name. The real Atossa was queen-consort of Darius (lost at Marathon; won in many other places) and mother of Xerxes (won at Thermopylae; drew at Artemisium; lost big at Salamis, Plataea, and Mycale – eventually assassinated). The real Atossa is portrayed bemoaning her son’s defeats in Aeschylus’s The Persians, written by an Athenian veteran of Marathon and Salamis. Gripping stuff.
    May our rootless – unless she’s rooted in Davos? – cosmopolitan Atossa II experience wailing and gnashing of teeth, as her namesake did over Xerxes’s defeats.
    Must give Persians credit for a sense of history, though. Americans could use more of that.
    I’ve also known Armenians – now living in California – who were born in Iran and educated in India. More welcoming hosts than the Turks, who appeared to delight in murdering, raping, and gelding Greeks, Armenians, and anyone else whose lands they managed to steal.
    As for Atossa II’s voting proposal, such effrontery should be grounds for summary expulsion without appeal.

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