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NYT: "Schools’ Discipline for Girls Differs by Race and Hue"
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The New York Times tracks down the 999 millionth example of racial patterns in bad behavior and applies Occam’s Butterknife:

Schools’ Discipline for Girls Differs by Race and Hue
By TANZINA VEGA DEC. 10, 2014

… For all the attention placed on problems that black boys face in terms of school discipline and criminal justice, there is increasing focus on the way those issues affect black girls as well.

Data from the Office for Civil Rights at the United States Department of Education show that from 2011 to 2012, black girls in public elementary and secondary schools nationwide were suspended at a rate of 12 percent, compared with a rate of just 2 percent for white girls, and more than girls of any other race or ethnicity. In Georgia, the ratio of black girls receiving suspensions in the same period compared with white girls was 5 to 1, and in Henry County, that ratio was 2.3 to 1, said J D Hardin, the spokesman for the county’s school district. And researchers say that within minority groups, darker-skinned girls are disciplined more harshly than light-skinned ones.

… Another thing the girls have in common is dark skin color, which researchers at Villanova University say affects the likelihood of being suspended. An analysis by Villanova researchers of data from the National Longitudinal Surveys of Youth and the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health indicated that black girls with the darkest skin tones were three times more likely to be suspended than black girls with the lightest skin.

There are different gender expectations for black girls compared with white girls, said Lance Hannon, a Villanova sociology professor who conducted the analysis. And, he said, there are different expectations within cross-sections of black girls. “When a darker-skinned African-American female acts up, there’s a certain concern about their boyish aggressiveness,” Dr. Hannon said, “that they don’t know their place as a female, as a woman.”

Compared with black boys, who are disciplined at higher rates than boys of other races and ethnicities, researchers say black girls tend to be penalized more subjectively, like for having a bad attitude or being defiant.

Jamilia Blake, an associate professor of educational psychology at Texas A&M University, said that while black boys are seen as threatening, black girls are often seen as “unsophisticated, hypersexualized and defiant.”

Catherine E. Lhamon, the assistant secretary for civil rights at the Department of Education, whose office published a report on school discipline in March that offered recommendations for how to improve disciplinary practices in schools, said the discrepancies in disciplinary practices were not lost on young girls of color. “The felt experience of too many of our girls in school is that they are being discriminated against,” she said.

“The message we send when we suspend or expel any student is that that student is not worthy of being in the school,” Ms. Lhamon said. “That is a pretty ugly message to internalize and very, very difficult to get past as part of an educational career.”

Once again, thank you, Obama Administration for working so diligently to make our schools more chaotic and violent.

 
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  1. The differences across skin color are actually quite interesting, and I’m sort of surprised that it was even noticed or measured.

    I don’t think I’ve heard similar things being said about black males who are subjected to punishment. Is it because there’s no apparent difference, I wonder, or because it just hasn’t been investigated yet?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @candid_observer

    African-Americans pay a lot of attention to skin color; white Americans don't.

    , @The Practical Conservative
    @candid_observer

    There's no major differences in suspension and the like between light boys and dark boys, but there are between light and dark girls. This one is actual colorism, not anything to do with propensity to give trouble.

    They even link to the source Noticing that in the article.

    Replies: @Simon in London, @P, @DPG, @David R. Merridale

    , @Bill
    @candid_observer


    The differences across skin color are actually quite interesting, and I’m sort of surprised that it was even noticed or measured.
     
    There is work on colorism. Google it. Nobody except the guys at Human Varieties interpret it as having something to do with white admixture of course. Most of the big surveys don't measure gradations in black skin color, but a couple of them do.
  2. “The message we send when we suspend or expel any student is that that student is not worthy of being in the school,” Ms. Lhamon said.

    Actually, the message we send is that there are consequences to actions, and that they will not be allowed to endlessly disrupt classes, depriving others of a calm learning environment. The message that we give to the children who behave when we do this is that we value their good attitude and willingness to learn. The message that we give to the students who are trying to learn when there are no consequences for the disruptive behavior of others is that the good students don’t matter, and that the disruptive students are more important than they are.

  3. The light skin Blacks girls (Mulatas) have more Caucasian blood pumping through their hearts than the dark skin Black girls, so on average they are less likely to act violent and ghetto in school.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Jefferson


    The light skin Blacks girls (Mulatas) have more Caucasian blood pumping through their hearts…
     
    They also may have a white parent or grandparent, and the sort of black parent or grandparent drawn to a white spouse.
    , @The Practical Conservative
    @Jefferson

    Uh, doesn't explain the similar rates for light and dark black boys in those same schools. Try again.

    Replies: @Brutusale

  4. The increased rate of suspensions based on skin darkness is interesting, though not in the way the NYT thinks it is.

  5. “Once again, thank you, Obama Administration for working so diligently to make our schools more chaotic and violent.”

    We only have to put up with the Obama administration for 25 more months.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @Jefferson

    So? That's hardly cause for rejoicing.

    We'll have to put up with the consequences of having had an Obama administration for a lot longer than 25 months.

  6. @candid_observer
    The differences across skin color are actually quite interesting, and I'm sort of surprised that it was even noticed or measured.

    I don't think I've heard similar things being said about black males who are subjected to punishment. Is it because there's no apparent difference, I wonder, or because it just hasn't been investigated yet?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @The Practical Conservative, @Bill

    African-Americans pay a lot of attention to skin color; white Americans don’t.

  7. African-Americans pay a lot of attention to skin color; white Americans don’t.

    When I was a hospital orderly, working around a lot of black female nurses and technicians, I noticed that the first thing they’d say when they looked at a group photo in which they were included was, “I look so daaark!”

    • Replies: @Keith Vaz
    @Harry Baldwin

    Don't get hi on yo own supply

    , @J1234
    @Harry Baldwin

    "When I was a hospital orderly, working around a lot of black female nurses and technicians, I noticed that the first thing they’d say when they looked at a group photo in which they were included was, 'I look so daaark!' "

    --

    Photography has changed a bunch since I was a kid, and one of the most conspicuous ways is in portraiture of black folks, whether posed or candid. My old high school yearbook has some black faces that look almost indiscernible as to features. Now, medium and dark skin blacks have photos that look more natural. That's a good thing, but buried in all of that is the old desire of blacks to look more white, I suspect. And it requires a whole different approach to lighting the subject. Don't tell a photographer that race doesn't matter. I'm no photography expert, but here's an interesting article.

    http://www.nyip.edu/photo-articles/archive/photographing-people-of-color

  8. “African-Americans pay a lot of attention to skin color; white Americans don’t.”

    So White Americans don’t notice for example that Middle Eastern Caucasoids are darker and less likely to be blond or ginger than Northern European Caucasoids ?

    I am a White American and I notice a lot of things regarding skin color. Am I in the minority ?

    I notice that Dominicans on average have lighter skin than Haitians even though Dominicans also have African ancestry just like the Haitians.

    • Replies: @Bill
    @Jefferson


    I notice that Dominicans on average have lighter skin than Haitians even though Dominicans also have African ancestry just like the Haitians.
     
    Note to blacks in majority black countries: if you have to choose between murdering your native white minority and interbreeding with them, choose b. Well, unless you like the idea of eating dirt cookies.

    Replies: @Ed

    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    @Jefferson

    “African-Americans pay a lot of attention to skin color; white Americans don’t.”


    "So White Americans don’t notice for example that Middle Eastern Caucasoids are darker and less likely to be blond or ginger than Northern European Caucasoids ?

    I am a White American and I notice a lot of things regarding skin color. Am I in the minority ?"


    Either you understand very well what Mr. Sailer meant, and you're just playing one of those passive-aggressive pedant games, or you have Asperger's. Either way, no one's interested.

  9. We only have to put up with the Obama administration for 25 more months.

    If only that were true. We’ll be dealing with obamacare and this latest ‘amnesty’ for years, if not perpetuity. It will be like an STD.

  10. @Jefferson
    The light skin Blacks girls (Mulatas) have more Caucasian blood pumping through their hearts than the dark skin Black girls, so on average they are less likely to act violent and ghetto in school.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @The Practical Conservative

    The light skin Blacks girls (Mulatas) have more Caucasian blood pumping through their hearts…

    They also may have a white parent or grandparent, and the sort of black parent or grandparent drawn to a white spouse.

  11. “The felt experience of too many of our girls in school is that they are being discriminated against,” she said.

    The mind boggles. You take the most liberal group of people in America–those who aspire to be teachers. Then you put them through the cultural-marxism reeducation program necessary to acquire their teaching credential. This is an excellent weeding-out system, a program so anti-white that any white person lacking in sufficient ethno-masochism could not tolerate it. Then you put the finished teacher in a public school classroom, and suddenly they all become racists! What hope is there? What more can be done? Are segregated schools the only option left?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Harry Baldwin

    “The felt experience of too many of our girls in school is that they are being discriminated against,” she said.

    The" felt experience"? What is a "felt" experience? There is no such thing as an "un-felt experience".

    How many is "too many"? "Too many" assumes that some number of black girls SHOULD believe they are being discriminated against. Without evidence I will not concede that.

    Further, by putting so much distance between the first words and the last words, the reader's mind is left with " [blah, blah, blah] they are being discriminated against".

    If the author simply said, "Black girls believe they are being discriminated against", my next thought would be "Are they?"

    Once the SJW start spewing manipulative NewSpeak, I immediately stop reading.

    , @Forbes
    @Harry Baldwin

    >“The felt experience of too many of our girls in school is that they are being discriminated against,” she said.

    Well, as the lapdog media and education blob keeps repeating the mantra: blacks are discriminated against, what other felt experience is expected? When media and education institutions don't rely on facts, or search out fishy data for use in flawed studies, can it really be expected that inner city parents and students are going to counter The Narrative of discrimination?

    Propaganda and indoctrination have become the norm by means of a bloodless revolution.

  12. …dark skin color, which researchers at Villanova University say affects the likelihood of being suspended.

    I’m sure all those Dravidian and Tamil math geeks spend a lot of time in detention, too.

    • Replies: @BurplesonAFB
    @Reg Cæsar

    Still I see no changes. Can't a Tamil get a lil peace?
    The war in the streets and the war near the Maldives.
    Instead of a Ramanu-G
    They hold up Kal Penn n try to make a Dem outta me.

  13. As cell phone videos in high school classrooms (and on the bus and at Denny’s) become more prevalent, I think these kinds of articles will start to disappear.

  14. “I’m sure all those Dravidian and Tamil math geeks spend a lot of time in detention, too.”

    Shhhhhhh, that doesn’t help the “White privilege holds down all dark skin people” narrative that the Left has created.

  15. The worse black behavior gets the more aggressively the New York Times defends said behavior.

  16. @candid_observer
    The differences across skin color are actually quite interesting, and I'm sort of surprised that it was even noticed or measured.

    I don't think I've heard similar things being said about black males who are subjected to punishment. Is it because there's no apparent difference, I wonder, or because it just hasn't been investigated yet?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @The Practical Conservative, @Bill

    There’s no major differences in suspension and the like between light boys and dark boys, but there are between light and dark girls. This one is actual colorism, not anything to do with propensity to give trouble.

    They even link to the source Noticing that in the article.

    • Replies: @Simon in London
    @The Practical Conservative

    "There’s no major differences in suspension and the like between light boys and dark boys, but there are between light and dark girls. This one is actual colorism, not anything to do with propensity to give trouble.

    They even link to the source Noticing that in the article."

    Would be interesting to see

    1. If the girls' behaviour differed, if blacker girls actually were treated more harshly.
    2. The race of the teachers giving the punishments - is it actually black women doing the discriminating?

    , @P
    @The Practical Conservative

    Nonsense. In the Hannon et al. study cited, the correlation between skin darkness and suspensions is 0.1217 for black females and 0.0962 for black males. The first of these is significantly different from zero (p<0.05) while the second isn't, but the size of the effects is similar across sexes, and the effects aren't significantly different from each other. We would need larger samples or more reliable measures of skin color for better inferences, but my bet is that the association between skin color and suspensions does not differ by sex in blacks.

    Replies: @Silicon Valley Dinosaur

    , @DPG
    @The Practical Conservative

    Where does it say that? I'll quote one of the links:

    "As you can see from the graph (adapted from the article), African American boys are more likely to be suspended at every skin tone than are girls. But the line associated with African American girls is steeper and the relationship was more statistically significant. This indicates that darker skin has more of an impact on the likelihood of being suspended for African American girls than for African American boys."

    https://gendersociety.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/colorism-gender-and-school-suspension/

    Skin color has an effect on both genders, it's just a larger effect for girls.

    , @David R. Merridale
    @The Practical Conservative

    Unless dark-skinned girls really do misbehave more than light-skinned girls while boys of all shades misbehave at the same rate. What's lacking here is a reality check. People compare the rates at which kids are disciplined against mere assumptions about behaviour, not actual data.

  17. @Jefferson
    The light skin Blacks girls (Mulatas) have more Caucasian blood pumping through their hearts than the dark skin Black girls, so on average they are less likely to act violent and ghetto in school.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @The Practical Conservative

    Uh, doesn’t explain the similar rates for light and dark black boys in those same schools. Try again.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @The Practical Conservative

    Mochas trying to prove their blackness to the chocolates.

    Alice, that sounds like the Gran Torino neighborhood!

    Replies: @Alice

  18. The high-ranking woman at the DoE observes that suspending or expelling a student sends the message that they’re “not worthy of being in the school.” Boy, this woman is a modern day Sherlock Holmes. We’ve got some very astute people in these jobs. What’s the next step, incarcerating those who commit crimes are given the message that they’re “not worthy” enough to hang around the streets and thus should be let go?

  19. Steve doesn’t like making predictions, so let me go out on a limb and say the combination of diminishing white and Asian percentages in public schools, the seemingly permanent state of high under-employment, and the escalating costs of private schools will make home schooling an increasingly popular choice in the coming years.

    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    @Tom Regan

    Or vouchers.

  20. @Reg Cæsar

    …dark skin color, which researchers at Villanova University say affects the likelihood of being suspended.
     
    I'm sure all those Dravidian and Tamil math geeks spend a lot of time in detention, too.

    Replies: @BurplesonAFB

    Still I see no changes. Can’t a Tamil get a lil peace?
    The war in the streets and the war near the Maldives.
    Instead of a Ramanu-G
    They hold up Kal Penn n try to make a Dem outta me.

  21. You know, the headline for the article could just as easily read:

    “Suspension rates confirm Black Girls misbehave more in school and the darker they are, the more they misbehave”.

    That would be starting from the assumption that our institutions are objective. No evidence is given to prove otherwise, other than taking the conclusion as the proof of the premise.

    • Replies: @Eric
    @pseudonymic handle

    But taking that same data and concluding "Das Raciss" based only on the numbers is totally different.

  22. In an ideal world they would treat people the same as far as possible* while acknowledging that people are different – and have a system designed to work best for everyone. In education that would look a lot like old-style disciplined and structured class teaching, with a much more masculine ethos. The modern feminised approach seems to be fine for Swedish girls, but is terrible with wilder children, including black children.

    *Girls and boys are so different that there may have to be differences where they are taught together – for instance corporal punishment in school may be justifiable with boys (I think on balance I’m against it), but all indications are that it’s never a good idea with girls. Segregation by sex may be best there.

    • Replies: @BurplesonAFB
    @Simon in London

    We tried going from an unashamedly pro white society to one that tried to treat people as individuals as much as possible and we ended up with this "unequal outcomes therefore racism" horseshit within 40 years (1954-1994 roughly).

    I'm becoming less and less of a live and let live kinda guy.

    Replies: @Hare Krishna

    , @Bill
    @Simon in London


    In an ideal world they would treat people the same as far as possible* while acknowledging that people are different
     
    That was the system in Rhodesia. For a while there, it seemed like Soldier of Fortune magazine got 90% of its ad revenue from the Rhodesian government. Anywhoooo, if I were advising countries on possible ways to deal with race, "treat everyone the same" would only come in ahead of "kill all the X people." It's a dumb policy in the actual world, whatever its merits in cloud cuckoo land.
  23. @The Practical Conservative
    @candid_observer

    There's no major differences in suspension and the like between light boys and dark boys, but there are between light and dark girls. This one is actual colorism, not anything to do with propensity to give trouble.

    They even link to the source Noticing that in the article.

    Replies: @Simon in London, @P, @DPG, @David R. Merridale

    “There’s no major differences in suspension and the like between light boys and dark boys, but there are between light and dark girls. This one is actual colorism, not anything to do with propensity to give trouble.

    They even link to the source Noticing that in the article.”

    Would be interesting to see

    1. If the girls’ behaviour differed, if blacker girls actually were treated more harshly.
    2. The race of the teachers giving the punishments – is it actually black women doing the discriminating?

  24. @Simon in London
    In an ideal world they would treat people the same as far as possible* while acknowledging that people are different - and have a system designed to work best for everyone. In education that would look a lot like old-style disciplined and structured class teaching, with a much more masculine ethos. The modern feminised approach seems to be fine for Swedish girls, but is terrible with wilder children, including black children.

    *Girls and boys are so different that there may have to be differences where they are taught together - for instance corporal punishment in school may be justifiable with boys (I think on balance I'm against it), but all indications are that it's never a good idea with girls. Segregation by sex may be best there.

    Replies: @BurplesonAFB, @Bill

    We tried going from an unashamedly pro white society to one that tried to treat people as individuals as much as possible and we ended up with this “unequal outcomes therefore racism” horseshit within 40 years (1954-1994 roughly).

    I’m becoming less and less of a live and let live kinda guy.

    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    @BurplesonAFB

    We were not a color blind, non-discriminatory society for very long. Only for a very brief period of time, before we abandoned actually treating people as individuals in favor of the racial preferences of affirmative action.

    We also watered down standards, which further sabotaged things.

  25. thank you, Obama Administration

    I don’t believe any other administration, eg a Republican one, would behave differently.

  26. “The felt experience . . . .” Facts are irrelevant; feelings and perception triumph.

    “The message we send when we suspend or expel any student is that that student is not worthy of being in the school,” said the elite civil rights “educator.” No the message sent is the student is a disruptive or dangerous force and needs to learn how to behave better.

  27. “Once again, thank you, Obama Administration for working so diligently to make our schools more chaotic and violent.”

    How is it his fault?

    • Replies: @eah
    @Mike, Emma and India

    New Obama administration education guidelines undermine school discipline

    With much ballyhoo, the Obama administration announced this week that it will keep a close eye on school districts that discipline minority students at higher rates than whites. Attorney General Eric Holder and Education Secretary Arne Duncan held a joint press conference to release a "Dear Colleague" letter to school districts issuing guidance on school discipline that will likely encourage districts to make race a significant factor in deciding how to administer punishment.

    See, it's like this: these guidelines come from the Department of Education, which is part of the Executive Branch. Obama is the head of the Executive Branch. Therefore, in the time-honored tradition of 'the buck stops here', Obama is ultimately responsible (I hope it's not racist to say buck when speaking of Obama).

    It should be clear now.

  28. My first reaction is, “Yeh, so what?” Are we to assume that there is a vast conspiracy to employ different standards in response to behavior of black children and white children? Is this conspiracy so well organized that all teachers in al schools remain silent?

    There is no conspiracy. Teachers, for the most part, choose the career out of sense of commitment to bettering the lives of young people. If there is widespread disparity in the treatment if black children, then there must be widespread disparity in the behavior of black children.

  29. @The Practical Conservative
    @candid_observer

    There's no major differences in suspension and the like between light boys and dark boys, but there are between light and dark girls. This one is actual colorism, not anything to do with propensity to give trouble.

    They even link to the source Noticing that in the article.

    Replies: @Simon in London, @P, @DPG, @David R. Merridale

    Nonsense. In the Hannon et al. study cited, the correlation between skin darkness and suspensions is 0.1217 for black females and 0.0962 for black males. The first of these is significantly different from zero (p<0.05) while the second isn't, but the size of the effects is similar across sexes, and the effects aren't significantly different from each other. We would need larger samples or more reliable measures of skin color for better inferences, but my bet is that the association between skin color and suspensions does not differ by sex in blacks.

    • Replies: @Silicon Valley Dinosaur
    @P

    "0.1217 for black females and 0.0962 for black males. The first of these is significantly different from zero (p<0.05) while the second isn't, but the size of the effects is similar across sexes, and the effects aren't significantly different from each other. "

    The difference *could* be statistically significant; you'd have that if the two correlations had a high correlation with each other. (I hope that's not too confusing;-) .)

    But statistical significance or not, the difference is in a larger, does-it-matter-in-the-real-world sense negligible simply because it's a very small number. (If you're an old guy like me and you learned your stats in the 1970s -- at the high tide of frequentism, and correspondingly low tide of Bayesianism--well, statistics has become a lot more levelheaded in the interim.)

    I can even think of a simple explanation for that slight difference in the color-correlated girl-vs-boy thing: the lighter-skinned black girls could include girls that stay out of the sun for aesthetic reasons, and that kind of concern with one's appearance -- concern with how others see you -- may be correlated with good behavior.

  30. @Mike, Emma and India
    "Once again, thank you, Obama Administration for working so diligently to make our schools more chaotic and violent."

    How is it his fault?

    Replies: @eah

    New Obama administration education guidelines undermine school discipline

    With much ballyhoo, the Obama administration announced this week that it will keep a close eye on school districts that discipline minority students at higher rates than whites. Attorney General Eric Holder and Education Secretary Arne Duncan held a joint press conference to release a “Dear Colleague” letter to school districts issuing guidance on school discipline that will likely encourage districts to make race a significant factor in deciding how to administer punishment.

    See, it’s like this: these guidelines come from the Department of Education, which is part of the Executive Branch. Obama is the head of the Executive Branch. Therefore, in the time-honored tradition of ‘the buck stops here’, Obama is ultimately responsible (I hope it’s not racist to say buck when speaking of Obama).

    It should be clear now.

  31. I wonder how the discipline varies by race of the teacher.

    And if the teacher is black or from any ethnic group that puts a big value on light vs. dark skin, how light vs. dark teachers discipline students who are light vs. dark.

  32. @Harry Baldwin
    African-Americans pay a lot of attention to skin color; white Americans don’t.

    When I was a hospital orderly, working around a lot of black female nurses and technicians, I noticed that the first thing they'd say when they looked at a group photo in which they were included was, "I look so daaark!"

    Replies: @Keith Vaz, @J1234

    Don’t get hi on yo own supply

  33. There’s a lot of problems in the black community. It can’t be surprising that the kids of parents who are frequently troubled or are in trouble with the law or on the job have the same kind of problem their parents do.

    In schools where lots of kids get suspended or expelled, my guess is that those suspensions and expulsions just contribute to the cycle of missed school, low grades and general chaos. It’s a whole lot of misery and some of it the kids bring on themselves, but a lot of them they inherit.

    If I lived in a the projects and was surrounded by gangs and shooting and a mother who was overwhelmed and hit instead of talked and a dad who never lived in the same place as I did, who the hell knows how I would have been in school or what kind of person I would have been? How could I have been the person I am, who did not experience any of those things?

    I wonder what the suspension rates are for poor white counties in Appalchia? They’ve got their problems too and I bet they are much higher than the average for whites in general.

    The school problems are part of bigger problems. The education experts don’t seem to make a lot of headway which isn’t surprising, since many of the behavioral and poverty problems in the homes are getting worse, not better.

    • Replies: @Jim
    @notsaying

    I recall once seeing some school data on a poor white county in Appalachia with a school system nearly all white. The per student spending compared to Detroit was considerably lower but the test score results were considerably higher.

    , @jo s'more
    @notsaying

    Yeah, I also wonder what the correlation of school suspension is with a parent with an arrest record.

    Also, what is the student suspension to absent father and ever imprisoned father.

    Look at those numbers and likely find the actual pattern, probably in all races.

    Replies: @Hare Krishna

  34. Thirty comments in, no one’s mentioned this graf?

    Compared with black boys, who are disciplined at higher rates than boys of other races and ethnicities, researchers say black girls tend to be penalized more subjectively, like for having a bad attitude or being defiant.

    Are they saying black boys are punished . . . objectively, not subjectively?

    Plus, any excuse to drag out Garrett Morris, right?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8QEIaATPis

  35. @pseudonymic handle
    You know, the headline for the article could just as easily read:

    "Suspension rates confirm Black Girls misbehave more in school and the darker they are, the more they misbehave".

    That would be starting from the assumption that our institutions are objective. No evidence is given to prove otherwise, other than taking the conclusion as the proof of the premise.

    Replies: @Eric

    But taking that same data and concluding “Das Raciss” based only on the numbers is totally different.

  36. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    “The felt experience of too many of our girls in school is that they are being discriminated against,” she said.

    The mind boggles. You take the most liberal group of people in America--those who aspire to be teachers. Then you put them through the cultural-marxism reeducation program necessary to acquire their teaching credential. This is an excellent weeding-out system, a program so anti-white that any white person lacking in sufficient ethno-masochism could not tolerate it. Then you put the finished teacher in a public school classroom, and suddenly they all become racists! What hope is there? What more can be done? Are segregated schools the only option left?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Forbes

    “The felt experience of too many of our girls in school is that they are being discriminated against,” she said.

    The” felt experience”? What is a “felt” experience? There is no such thing as an “un-felt experience”.

    How many is “too many”? “Too many” assumes that some number of black girls SHOULD believe they are being discriminated against. Without evidence I will not concede that.

    Further, by putting so much distance between the first words and the last words, the reader’s mind is left with ” [blah, blah, blah] they are being discriminated against”.

    If the author simply said, “Black girls believe they are being discriminated against”, my next thought would be “Are they?”

    Once the SJW start spewing manipulative NewSpeak, I immediately stop reading.

  37. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t know why the schools don’t record video of their classrooms automatically. If police are required to wear body cameras, why aren’t schools required (or at least permitted) to record classrooms and thereby prove that they aren’t evil white oppressors.

    The best I can figure is that school teachers still have a slave mentality. They consider themselves morally responsible for minority dysfunction. If their students act out it is due to the teachers’ “poor classroom management skills”. Like the cowed wife of a battering husband, teachers think they must have done something to “set him off”.

    Until teachers grow a spine, record their classrooms, and call the police to arrest students for assault and battery things aren’t going to get better. In fact, these new regulations/monitoring are going to make things worse.

    What ever happened to”reform school”, by the way?

  38. @notsaying
    There's a lot of problems in the black community. It can't be surprising that the kids of parents who are frequently troubled or are in trouble with the law or on the job have the same kind of problem their parents do.

    In schools where lots of kids get suspended or expelled, my guess is that those suspensions and expulsions just contribute to the cycle of missed school, low grades and general chaos. It's a whole lot of misery and some of it the kids bring on themselves, but a lot of them they inherit.

    If I lived in a the projects and was surrounded by gangs and shooting and a mother who was overwhelmed and hit instead of talked and a dad who never lived in the same place as I did, who the hell knows how I would have been in school or what kind of person I would have been? How could I have been the person I am, who did not experience any of those things?

    I wonder what the suspension rates are for poor white counties in Appalchia? They've got their problems too and I bet they are much higher than the average for whites in general.

    The school problems are part of bigger problems. The education experts don't seem to make a lot of headway which isn't surprising, since many of the behavioral and poverty problems in the homes are getting worse, not better.

    Replies: @Jim, @jo s'more

    I recall once seeing some school data on a poor white county in Appalachia with a school system nearly all white. The per student spending compared to Detroit was considerably lower but the test score results were considerably higher.

  39. They’re getting dangerously close to noticing the huge differences in discipline rates between boys and girls, which everyone intuitively already knows about and sensibly doesn’t care about.

  40. @Jefferson
    "Once again, thank you, Obama Administration for working so diligently to make our schools more chaotic and violent."

    We only have to put up with the Obama administration for 25 more months.

    Replies: @Kylie

    So? That’s hardly cause for rejoicing.

    We’ll have to put up with the consequences of having had an Obama administration for a lot longer than 25 months.

  41. Aren’t public schools disproportionately made up of black female teachers, and even more so in largely black schools. So, much of this racist discipline against black female students is meted out by black female teachers.

  42. It seems the Skin Color thing would be an interesting study, and not to hard in this day of massive computing power. An automated online search mug shots, correlated with automated measurement of sking darkness taken from the shot, and the reported race and severity of the crime.

    This wouldn’t be iron clad, the relative darkness of different mug shots would vary by lighting, camera hardware, various software iterations etc. But it would be objective, and would give a starting point of answering: are dark skinned blacks arrested more and for more violent crimes than light skinned blacks? (would need some measure of skin tone range and prevelance in the AA community). Are dark skinned Latinos of indiginious background (Aztecs from the Yuccatan who work outside as landscapers) arrested more or less than lighter skinned blacks? (would perhaps require human eyes to differentiate part African Puerto Ricans and Brazilians from pure indigenous Guatemalans).

  43. @The Practical Conservative
    @candid_observer

    There's no major differences in suspension and the like between light boys and dark boys, but there are between light and dark girls. This one is actual colorism, not anything to do with propensity to give trouble.

    They even link to the source Noticing that in the article.

    Replies: @Simon in London, @P, @DPG, @David R. Merridale

    Where does it say that? I’ll quote one of the links:

    “As you can see from the graph (adapted from the article), African American boys are more likely to be suspended at every skin tone than are girls. But the line associated with African American girls is steeper and the relationship was more statistically significant. This indicates that darker skin has more of an impact on the likelihood of being suspended for African American girls than for African American boys.”

    https://gendersociety.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/colorism-gender-and-school-suspension/

    Skin color has an effect on both genders, it’s just a larger effect for girls.

  44. Any article, study, or report that does not provide context by pointing out some minorities, like Asian Americans, perform better than the majority on measures like these is not really worthy of serious consideration.

  45. @notsaying
    There's a lot of problems in the black community. It can't be surprising that the kids of parents who are frequently troubled or are in trouble with the law or on the job have the same kind of problem their parents do.

    In schools where lots of kids get suspended or expelled, my guess is that those suspensions and expulsions just contribute to the cycle of missed school, low grades and general chaos. It's a whole lot of misery and some of it the kids bring on themselves, but a lot of them they inherit.

    If I lived in a the projects and was surrounded by gangs and shooting and a mother who was overwhelmed and hit instead of talked and a dad who never lived in the same place as I did, who the hell knows how I would have been in school or what kind of person I would have been? How could I have been the person I am, who did not experience any of those things?

    I wonder what the suspension rates are for poor white counties in Appalchia? They've got their problems too and I bet they are much higher than the average for whites in general.

    The school problems are part of bigger problems. The education experts don't seem to make a lot of headway which isn't surprising, since many of the behavioral and poverty problems in the homes are getting worse, not better.

    Replies: @Jim, @jo s'more

    Yeah, I also wonder what the correlation of school suspension is with a parent with an arrest record.

    Also, what is the student suspension to absent father and ever imprisoned father.

    Look at those numbers and likely find the actual pattern, probably in all races.

    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    @jo s'more

    Absent and imprisoned fathers guarantee high suspension rates, as well as crime, drug and alcohol abuse, underachievement, etc. regardless of race.

  46. Actually, the message we send is that there are consequences to actions, and that they will not be allowed to endlessly disrupt classes, depriving others of a calm learning environment. The message that we give to the children who behave when we do this is that we value their good attitude and willingness to learn. The message that we give to the students who are trying to learn when there are no consequences for the disruptive behavior of others is that the good students don’t matter, and that the disruptive students are more important than they are.

    Michael Brown might’ve benefited from these lessons.

    “I’m sure all those Dravidian and Tamil math geeks spend a lot of time in detention, too.”

    Shhhhhhh, that doesn’t help the “White privilege holds down all dark skin people” narrative that the Left has created.

    It certainly shows what a scam the libs, these “researchers” and “scientists” very much included, are running on white America.

    There’s no major differences in suspension and the like between light boys and dark boys, but there are between light and dark girls. This one is actual colorism, not anything to do with propensity to give trouble.

    They even link to the source Noticing that in the article.

    That’s an assumption, based on a crappy study. If they really wanted to know, to enlighten, they’d fold in non-sub-Saharan populations with dark skin for comparison, as others have pointed out. Do they?

    Steve doesn’t like making predictions, so let me go out on a limb and say the combination of diminishing white and Asian percentages in public schools, the seemingly permanent state of high under-employment, and the escalating costs of private schools will make home schooling an increasingly popular choice in the coming years.

    Which, given collective efforts in that direction, might lay the seed for some very uncomfortable (from the bad guys’ POV) organizing mechanisms, outside elite control. White community organizing outside gov’t influence = bad.

    Any article, study, or report that does not provide context by pointing out some minorities, like Asian Americans, perform better than the majority on measures like these is not really worthy of serious consideration.

    Amen.

  47. @candid_observer
    The differences across skin color are actually quite interesting, and I'm sort of surprised that it was even noticed or measured.

    I don't think I've heard similar things being said about black males who are subjected to punishment. Is it because there's no apparent difference, I wonder, or because it just hasn't been investigated yet?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @The Practical Conservative, @Bill

    The differences across skin color are actually quite interesting, and I’m sort of surprised that it was even noticed or measured.

    There is work on colorism. Google it. Nobody except the guys at Human Varieties interpret it as having something to do with white admixture of course. Most of the big surveys don’t measure gradations in black skin color, but a couple of them do.

  48. Same issue, different location, but Steve had brought this up before. St. Paul, MN got sued by the DoJ into mainstreaming. Mpls is a year behind them. (The district also moved to the idiotic “middle school model” rather than a “junior high model” (put grade 6ers with 7 and 8ers. Improves the data for the school to the detriment of kids.)

    Here are the results:
    http://www.twincities.com/education/ci_26971807/st-paul-school-district-aims-reduce-bad-behavior

    Students are out of control at St. Paul’s Ramsey Middle School and the school lacks the staff to address the problems, parents have told the school board.

    In a meeting with two dozen parents immediately after their public comments Tuesday, St. Paul Public Schools administrators said help is on the way.

    Nine Ramsey teachers have quit since the start of the school year, and parents said a few families have enrolled their children in private schools.

    “If my student is not safe and not learning, why is he there?” asked Kristen Swanson, who said her sixth-grade son was “roughed up” in a bathroom by boys he didn’t know

    .

    http://www.twincities.com/ci_22650084/st-paul-schools-when-is-an-incident-misconduct
    One boy, accused of cutting a fellow student with an X-Acto knife, faces a felony assault charge.

    Another was charged with assault after kicking a schoolmate in the groin.

    Both incidents took place at St. Paul’s Ramsey Junior High this school year. In both cases, parents alerted police. The school did not.

    oh, there’s more:

    Now, Ramsey is an interesting school. Look at Zillow to see the ave home price in the neighborhood: Ramsey is on a major retail district street, but the neighborhood has of arts-and crafts style bungalows has most homes in the 300-400k region, with mansions a block away on Summit Ave. with homes typically over 1M.

    This neighborhood, called Macalester-Groveland, is a white, culturally Catholic neighborhood, one of the few still successful urban neighborhoods in the country. High population of children. The middle school neighbors Macalester College, one of the newly minted non-Ivies that thinks it is as good as Carleton and charges as much.

    http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MN/schools/3384001621/school.aspx says
    In 2014, Ramsey Junior High ranked worse than 79.8% of middle schools in Minnesota. It also ranked 3rd among 6 ranked middle schools in the St. Paul Public School District. In 2014 the percent meeting or exceeding “proficient” on the statewide MCA exam was 42.4 in math and 35.8 in reading. (And of course, “proficient is a LOW bar.)

    According to schooldigger:

    Student population at Ramsey Junior High is diverse. Racial makeup is: African American (34.2%), White (31.5%), Asian (22.1%).

    The 22% are largely Hmong, and come from across the freeway, as do the Blacks, who are also not from the neighborhood.

  49. @Jefferson
    "African-Americans pay a lot of attention to skin color; white Americans don’t."

    So White Americans don't notice for example that Middle Eastern Caucasoids are darker and less likely to be blond or ginger than Northern European Caucasoids ?

    I am a White American and I notice a lot of things regarding skin color. Am I in the minority ?

    I notice that Dominicans on average have lighter skin than Haitians even though Dominicans also have African ancestry just like the Haitians.

    Replies: @Bill, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    I notice that Dominicans on average have lighter skin than Haitians even though Dominicans also have African ancestry just like the Haitians.

    Note to blacks in majority black countries: if you have to choose between murdering your native white minority and interbreeding with them, choose b. Well, unless you like the idea of eating dirt cookies.

    • Replies: @Ed
    @Bill

    That's not what happened in DR though. Spanish migration was skewed heavily towards men. So the Spaniatds often took black wives, concubines etc. It was mixed race early on.

    Replies: @Bill

  50. @Simon in London
    In an ideal world they would treat people the same as far as possible* while acknowledging that people are different - and have a system designed to work best for everyone. In education that would look a lot like old-style disciplined and structured class teaching, with a much more masculine ethos. The modern feminised approach seems to be fine for Swedish girls, but is terrible with wilder children, including black children.

    *Girls and boys are so different that there may have to be differences where they are taught together - for instance corporal punishment in school may be justifiable with boys (I think on balance I'm against it), but all indications are that it's never a good idea with girls. Segregation by sex may be best there.

    Replies: @BurplesonAFB, @Bill

    In an ideal world they would treat people the same as far as possible* while acknowledging that people are different

    That was the system in Rhodesia. For a while there, it seemed like Soldier of Fortune magazine got 90% of its ad revenue from the Rhodesian government. Anywhoooo, if I were advising countries on possible ways to deal with race, “treat everyone the same” would only come in ahead of “kill all the X people.” It’s a dumb policy in the actual world, whatever its merits in cloud cuckoo land.

  51. “researchers say black girls tend to be penalized more subjectively, like for having a bad attitude or being defiant.”

    But like in figure skating, the subjective score still means something, right? Or did Tonya Harding not win an Olympic gold medal because the subjective scoring was unfair?

  52. Let me suggest a factor other than skin tone for the difference in black female suspension rates. Obesity! Its no secret that young black females have a real problem with obesity. Something like 60% are. It is my experience that the darker the skin the more likely a black female is to be obese and not just a bit plump but morbidly obese. Doesn’t take a psychologist to realize that a dark skinned, grossly overweight black female teenager is going to have self esteem issues especially since black men make no secret of their attraction towards lighter skinned black and white females and these dark behemoths might be tempted to use their bulk to physically intimidate or attack their fairer sisters.

  53. @Jefferson
    "African-Americans pay a lot of attention to skin color; white Americans don’t."

    So White Americans don't notice for example that Middle Eastern Caucasoids are darker and less likely to be blond or ginger than Northern European Caucasoids ?

    I am a White American and I notice a lot of things regarding skin color. Am I in the minority ?

    I notice that Dominicans on average have lighter skin than Haitians even though Dominicans also have African ancestry just like the Haitians.

    Replies: @Bill, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    “African-Americans pay a lot of attention to skin color; white Americans don’t.”

    “So White Americans don’t notice for example that Middle Eastern Caucasoids are darker and less likely to be blond or ginger than Northern European Caucasoids ?

    I am a White American and I notice a lot of things regarding skin color. Am I in the minority ?”

    Either you understand very well what Mr. Sailer meant, and you’re just playing one of those passive-aggressive pedant games, or you have Asperger’s. Either way, no one’s interested.

  54. “Doesn’t take a psychologist to realize that a dark skinned, grossly overweight black female teenager is going to have self esteem issues especially since black men make no secret of their attraction towards lighter skinned black and white females and these dark behemoths might be tempted to use their bulk to physically intimidate or attack their fairer sisters.”

    I see plenty of obese Black as midnight women walking around with their children. So obviously they are not having any problems finding Brothas who want to have sex with them.

  55. @Harry Baldwin
    “The felt experience of too many of our girls in school is that they are being discriminated against,” she said.

    The mind boggles. You take the most liberal group of people in America--those who aspire to be teachers. Then you put them through the cultural-marxism reeducation program necessary to acquire their teaching credential. This is an excellent weeding-out system, a program so anti-white that any white person lacking in sufficient ethno-masochism could not tolerate it. Then you put the finished teacher in a public school classroom, and suddenly they all become racists! What hope is there? What more can be done? Are segregated schools the only option left?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Forbes

    >“The felt experience of too many of our girls in school is that they are being discriminated against,” she said.

    Well, as the lapdog media and education blob keeps repeating the mantra: blacks are discriminated against, what other felt experience is expected? When media and education institutions don’t rely on facts, or search out fishy data for use in flawed studies, can it really be expected that inner city parents and students are going to counter The Narrative of discrimination?

    Propaganda and indoctrination have become the norm by means of a bloodless revolution.

  56. So if Africans behave 12 times as badly as Europeans, and are punished 6 times as often….

  57. @Bill
    @Jefferson


    I notice that Dominicans on average have lighter skin than Haitians even though Dominicans also have African ancestry just like the Haitians.
     
    Note to blacks in majority black countries: if you have to choose between murdering your native white minority and interbreeding with them, choose b. Well, unless you like the idea of eating dirt cookies.

    Replies: @Ed

    That’s not what happened in DR though. Spanish migration was skewed heavily towards men. So the Spaniatds often took black wives, concubines etc. It was mixed race early on.

    • Replies: @Bill
    @Ed

    I said the black majority in DR interbred with the white minority. You say I was wrong, and that in fact the black majority in the DR interbred with the white minority. ???

  58. @Harry Baldwin
    African-Americans pay a lot of attention to skin color; white Americans don’t.

    When I was a hospital orderly, working around a lot of black female nurses and technicians, I noticed that the first thing they'd say when they looked at a group photo in which they were included was, "I look so daaark!"

    Replies: @Keith Vaz, @J1234

    “When I was a hospital orderly, working around a lot of black female nurses and technicians, I noticed that the first thing they’d say when they looked at a group photo in which they were included was, ‘I look so daaark!’ ”

    Photography has changed a bunch since I was a kid, and one of the most conspicuous ways is in portraiture of black folks, whether posed or candid. My old high school yearbook has some black faces that look almost indiscernible as to features. Now, medium and dark skin blacks have photos that look more natural. That’s a good thing, but buried in all of that is the old desire of blacks to look more white, I suspect. And it requires a whole different approach to lighting the subject. Don’t tell a photographer that race doesn’t matter. I’m no photography expert, but here’s an interesting article.

    http://www.nyip.edu/photo-articles/archive/photographing-people-of-color

  59. There needs to be a MMPI type personality test that measures “blackness.”

    • Replies: @Boomstick
    @Hal

    Actually, this demonstrates one of the shortcomings of focusing on IQ only. It's probable that there are many other aspects of behavior that are genetically based, but we don't have very good metrics for describing and measuring them. A "rowdiness quotient" might be pretty useful. These might not map directly to the Big Five. Is being disruptive in class really the same thing as extraversion? Extraversion plus low conscientiousness?

    We've got an IQ yardstick, and tend to use it because it's there.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  60. “The message we send when we suspend or expel any student is that that student is not worthy of being in the school,” Ms. Lhamon said.

    Why not just send them to another room. The rowdy room.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Rex
    @Luke Lea

    “"The message we send when we suspend or expel any student is that that student is not worthy of being in the school,” Ms. Lhamon said.""

    "Why not just send them to another room. The rowdy room."

    My high school in Virginia (early to mid 80's) did this. The school had 3 floors. The 3rd floor was entirely classrooms, the 2nd floor (ground level) contained mostly classrooms, but also the administrative offices and the cafeteria. The basement level had the gym, weight room, whatever you call the room that the band practices in, auto shop, etc. They also had a couple rooms reserved for the unruly disruptive kids that were determined to leave school just as stupid and ignorant as when they arrived. We (the normal students) called them the "Romper Rooms".

    By the way, there plenty of black kids that went to school on the 2nd and 3rd floor, and several white dimwits that attended Romper Room. But the majority of the Romper Room kids were black. They weren't really bad or violent kids (back then it wasn't difficult to expel the violent ones), but just more interesting in beating on their desks like a drum or dancing or throwing spitballs or "lookin' at the funnies" (as they'd call reading comic books) or pretending to hump the black girls while spouting nonsensical rhymes.

    Some assistant football coach sat in there with them all day to make sure nobody got hurt, every once in a while they'd try to make them watch an educational film or something. At the end of four years, they'd hand them a diploma and send them on their way.

    The arrangement seemed to work for everyone. I ran into one of the Romper Room guys a few years ago while buying coffee at a 7-11. He was working for the county, mowing median strips and the like. He didn't seem to think he'd been robbed of an education.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  61. @ Anonymous – “I don’t know why the schools don’t record video of their classrooms automatically.”

    Agree totally. We should have cameras with sound in every public school class room. In fact two, in opposite corners, to make sure mischievous students can’t destroy them without getting detected.

    One of the big problems with school discipline is the difficulty of documenting student misbehavior.
    Without film it becomes a he said, she said, and many school administrations are reluctant to back their teachers, especially when obstreperous parents start protesting and threatening to sue.

    Cameras are really the answer here for the sake of the teachers, just as they are in order to protect police officers doing their duty in situations like what happened in Ferguson.

    Let there be light!

    Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free!

    (You know the Bible really is a revolutionary document.)

    • Replies: @EriK
    @Luke Lea

    I'm aware of a charter high school that has cameras in every classroom. The school was designed that way at the urging of its first principal (a black guy).

  62. @Luke Lea
    @ Anonymous - "I don’t know why the schools don’t record video of their classrooms automatically."

    Agree totally. We should have cameras with sound in every public school class room. In fact two, in opposite corners, to make sure mischievous students can't destroy them without getting detected.

    One of the big problems with school discipline is the difficulty of documenting student misbehavior.
    Without film it becomes a he said, she said, and many school administrations are reluctant to back their teachers, especially when obstreperous parents start protesting and threatening to sue.

    Cameras are really the answer here for the sake of the teachers, just as they are in order to protect police officers doing their duty in situations like what happened in Ferguson.

    Let there be light!

    Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free!

    (You know the Bible really is a revolutionary document.)

    Replies: @EriK

    I’m aware of a charter high school that has cameras in every classroom. The school was designed that way at the urging of its first principal (a black guy).

  63. Suppose there is a school where an bball athlete graduated, went to university and majored in bball studies, played in the Olympics, jumped over some guy, became famous, went pro, became wealthy, then donated money to his high school to build a gym. What do you think happens? The student athletes stop caring about education, and so does the administration. All they care about is the next athletic meal ticket, that’s what happens.

  64. This is all just a big con. Black parents are quite aware that black kids are more aggressive than kids of other races and that they break the rules more frequently and more boldy than kids of other races. They know black kids are more violent than kids of other races. Hell, they saw it with their own eyes when they went to school, and they see it every day in every situation, from watching kids walk across the street to watching the differences in behavior among racial groups of kids in the local Walmart.

    I’d like cameras in the hallways, the corridors, the cafeteria, and the classrooms of every school along with audio.

    Then, let’s talk.

    It’s all a big con.

  65. @Hal
    There needs to be a MMPI type personality test that measures "blackness."

    Replies: @Boomstick

    Actually, this demonstrates one of the shortcomings of focusing on IQ only. It’s probable that there are many other aspects of behavior that are genetically based, but we don’t have very good metrics for describing and measuring them. A “rowdiness quotient” might be pretty useful. These might not map directly to the Big Five. Is being disruptive in class really the same thing as extraversion? Extraversion plus low conscientiousness?

    We’ve got an IQ yardstick, and tend to use it because it’s there.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Boomstick

    Right.

  66. @Boomstick
    @Hal

    Actually, this demonstrates one of the shortcomings of focusing on IQ only. It's probable that there are many other aspects of behavior that are genetically based, but we don't have very good metrics for describing and measuring them. A "rowdiness quotient" might be pretty useful. These might not map directly to the Big Five. Is being disruptive in class really the same thing as extraversion? Extraversion plus low conscientiousness?

    We've got an IQ yardstick, and tend to use it because it's there.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Right.

  67. I very much doubt that those who complain about different rates of school suspension or discipline for black compared to white students have spent much time teaching in classrooms with a lot of blacks.

    How do suspension and discipline rates for black students compare with black teachers or administrators compared to white teachers or administrators? What do the Social Justice Warriors say about this?

  68. @The Practical Conservative
    @candid_observer

    There's no major differences in suspension and the like between light boys and dark boys, but there are between light and dark girls. This one is actual colorism, not anything to do with propensity to give trouble.

    They even link to the source Noticing that in the article.

    Replies: @Simon in London, @P, @DPG, @David R. Merridale

    Unless dark-skinned girls really do misbehave more than light-skinned girls while boys of all shades misbehave at the same rate. What’s lacking here is a reality check. People compare the rates at which kids are disciplined against mere assumptions about behaviour, not actual data.

  69. @Ed
    @Bill

    That's not what happened in DR though. Spanish migration was skewed heavily towards men. So the Spaniatds often took black wives, concubines etc. It was mixed race early on.

    Replies: @Bill

    I said the black majority in DR interbred with the white minority. You say I was wrong, and that in fact the black majority in the DR interbred with the white minority. ???

  70. @The Practical Conservative
    @Jefferson

    Uh, doesn't explain the similar rates for light and dark black boys in those same schools. Try again.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    Mochas trying to prove their blackness to the chocolates.

    Alice, that sounds like the Gran Torino neighborhood!

    • Replies: @Alice
    @Brutusale

    No, sorry, the school is forced to have crazy boundaries to drag the Hmong and whites and blacks together. The school itself is in a neighborhood with ultra liberal whites. The kind of place that votes 70/30 for a dem as left as Pelosi.

    But the school is very Gran Torino, yes. And the Hmong neighborhoods are intermixed with ethnic Catholics in less well off parts of town.

    This level of school violence coming soon to your urban liberal enclave. The DoJ settled with St. Paul early in this battle. NY will eventually.

  71. @Luke Lea
    “The message we send when we suspend or expel any student is that that student is not worthy of being in the school,” Ms. Lhamon said.

    Why not just send them to another room. The rowdy room.

    Replies: @Anonymous Rex

    “”The message we send when we suspend or expel any student is that that student is not worthy of being in the school,” Ms. Lhamon said.””

    “Why not just send them to another room. The rowdy room.”

    My high school in Virginia (early to mid 80’s) did this. The school had 3 floors. The 3rd floor was entirely classrooms, the 2nd floor (ground level) contained mostly classrooms, but also the administrative offices and the cafeteria. The basement level had the gym, weight room, whatever you call the room that the band practices in, auto shop, etc. They also had a couple rooms reserved for the unruly disruptive kids that were determined to leave school just as stupid and ignorant as when they arrived. We (the normal students) called them the “Romper Rooms”.

    By the way, there plenty of black kids that went to school on the 2nd and 3rd floor, and several white dimwits that attended Romper Room. But the majority of the Romper Room kids were black. They weren’t really bad or violent kids (back then it wasn’t difficult to expel the violent ones), but just more interesting in beating on their desks like a drum or dancing or throwing spitballs or “lookin’ at the funnies” (as they’d call reading comic books) or pretending to hump the black girls while spouting nonsensical rhymes.

    Some assistant football coach sat in there with them all day to make sure nobody got hurt, every once in a while they’d try to make them watch an educational film or something. At the end of four years, they’d hand them a diploma and send them on their way.

    The arrangement seemed to work for everyone. I ran into one of the Romper Room guys a few years ago while buying coffee at a 7-11. He was working for the county, mowing median strips and the like. He didn’t seem to think he’d been robbed of an education.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous Rex

    "Some assistant football coach sat in there with them all day to make sure nobody got hurt,"

    Assistant football coaches definitely have their uses.

  72. @Anonymous Rex
    @Luke Lea

    “"The message we send when we suspend or expel any student is that that student is not worthy of being in the school,” Ms. Lhamon said.""

    "Why not just send them to another room. The rowdy room."

    My high school in Virginia (early to mid 80's) did this. The school had 3 floors. The 3rd floor was entirely classrooms, the 2nd floor (ground level) contained mostly classrooms, but also the administrative offices and the cafeteria. The basement level had the gym, weight room, whatever you call the room that the band practices in, auto shop, etc. They also had a couple rooms reserved for the unruly disruptive kids that were determined to leave school just as stupid and ignorant as when they arrived. We (the normal students) called them the "Romper Rooms".

    By the way, there plenty of black kids that went to school on the 2nd and 3rd floor, and several white dimwits that attended Romper Room. But the majority of the Romper Room kids were black. They weren't really bad or violent kids (back then it wasn't difficult to expel the violent ones), but just more interesting in beating on their desks like a drum or dancing or throwing spitballs or "lookin' at the funnies" (as they'd call reading comic books) or pretending to hump the black girls while spouting nonsensical rhymes.

    Some assistant football coach sat in there with them all day to make sure nobody got hurt, every once in a while they'd try to make them watch an educational film or something. At the end of four years, they'd hand them a diploma and send them on their way.

    The arrangement seemed to work for everyone. I ran into one of the Romper Room guys a few years ago while buying coffee at a 7-11. He was working for the county, mowing median strips and the like. He didn't seem to think he'd been robbed of an education.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    “Some assistant football coach sat in there with them all day to make sure nobody got hurt,”

    Assistant football coaches definitely have their uses.

  73. @P
    @The Practical Conservative

    Nonsense. In the Hannon et al. study cited, the correlation between skin darkness and suspensions is 0.1217 for black females and 0.0962 for black males. The first of these is significantly different from zero (p<0.05) while the second isn't, but the size of the effects is similar across sexes, and the effects aren't significantly different from each other. We would need larger samples or more reliable measures of skin color for better inferences, but my bet is that the association between skin color and suspensions does not differ by sex in blacks.

    Replies: @Silicon Valley Dinosaur

    “0.1217 for black females and 0.0962 for black males. The first of these is significantly different from zero (p<0.05) while the second isn't, but the size of the effects is similar across sexes, and the effects aren't significantly different from each other. "

    The difference *could* be statistically significant; you'd have that if the two correlations had a high correlation with each other. (I hope that's not too confusing;-) .)

    But statistical significance or not, the difference is in a larger, does-it-matter-in-the-real-world sense negligible simply because it's a very small number. (If you're an old guy like me and you learned your stats in the 1970s — at the high tide of frequentism, and correspondingly low tide of Bayesianism–well, statistics has become a lot more levelheaded in the interim.)

    I can even think of a simple explanation for that slight difference in the color-correlated girl-vs-boy thing: the lighter-skinned black girls could include girls that stay out of the sun for aesthetic reasons, and that kind of concern with one's appearance — concern with how others see you — may be correlated with good behavior.

  74. (Another Unzware hiccup. Dammit Ron, fix your bugs or adopt someone else’s proven technology!)

  75. I’m sure all those Dravidian and Tamil math geeks spend a lot of time in detention, too.

    [pendant hat on]

    Tamils are examples of Dravidians.

    The four Dravidian peoples, broadly speaking, are the occupants of the southern-most states of india:

    Tamil speakers from Tamil Nadu (home of Madras/Chennai)
    Telugu speakers from Andhar Pradesh
    Kannada speakers from Karnataka (home of Bengalore)
    Malayalam speakers from Kerala

    All four languages are interrelated, but not very inter intelligible. And, unlike the Northern India sanskrit-based languages, they are non-Indo-European (with the exception of the assimilation of some sanskrit vocabulary from vedic texts).

    [/pendant hat off]

  76. @Brutusale
    @The Practical Conservative

    Mochas trying to prove their blackness to the chocolates.

    Alice, that sounds like the Gran Torino neighborhood!

    Replies: @Alice

    No, sorry, the school is forced to have crazy boundaries to drag the Hmong and whites and blacks together. The school itself is in a neighborhood with ultra liberal whites. The kind of place that votes 70/30 for a dem as left as Pelosi.

    But the school is very Gran Torino, yes. And the Hmong neighborhoods are intermixed with ethnic Catholics in less well off parts of town.

    This level of school violence coming soon to your urban liberal enclave. The DoJ settled with St. Paul early in this battle. NY will eventually.

  77. @BurplesonAFB
    @Simon in London

    We tried going from an unashamedly pro white society to one that tried to treat people as individuals as much as possible and we ended up with this "unequal outcomes therefore racism" horseshit within 40 years (1954-1994 roughly).

    I'm becoming less and less of a live and let live kinda guy.

    Replies: @Hare Krishna

    We were not a color blind, non-discriminatory society for very long. Only for a very brief period of time, before we abandoned actually treating people as individuals in favor of the racial preferences of affirmative action.

    We also watered down standards, which further sabotaged things.

  78. @jo s'more
    @notsaying

    Yeah, I also wonder what the correlation of school suspension is with a parent with an arrest record.

    Also, what is the student suspension to absent father and ever imprisoned father.

    Look at those numbers and likely find the actual pattern, probably in all races.

    Replies: @Hare Krishna

    Absent and imprisoned fathers guarantee high suspension rates, as well as crime, drug and alcohol abuse, underachievement, etc. regardless of race.

  79. @Tom Regan
    Steve doesn't like making predictions, so let me go out on a limb and say the combination of diminishing white and Asian percentages in public schools, the seemingly permanent state of high under-employment, and the escalating costs of private schools will make home schooling an increasingly popular choice in the coming years.

    Replies: @Hare Krishna

    Or vouchers.

  80. We were not a color blind, non-discriminatory society for very long. Only for a very brief period of time, before we abandoned actually treating people as individuals in favor of the racial preferences of affirmative action.

    I was just mentioning on another thread how equality is just a single point on a curve. It’s usually a point being quickly passed in one direction, or the other. Like on a see-saw. That point where your eyes are level with the other kid’s. That’s equality. It’s inherently fleeting. That one tiny point on the curve is equality. The rest of the curve is real life.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Svigor

    Very nice. I'll try to remember to borrow that one (not steal). Literary imagery works.

  81. @Svigor

    We were not a color blind, non-discriminatory society for very long. Only for a very brief period of time, before we abandoned actually treating people as individuals in favor of the racial preferences of affirmative action.
     
    I was just mentioning on another thread how equality is just a single point on a curve. It's usually a point being quickly passed in one direction, or the other. Like on a see-saw. That point where your eyes are level with the other kid's. That's equality. It's inherently fleeting. That one tiny point on the curve is equality. The rest of the curve is real life.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Very nice. I’ll try to remember to borrow that one (not steal). Literary imagery works.

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