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NYT: Open Borders Spread the Pandemic
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Here’s another example of the New York Times’ occasional Better Late Than Never honest reporting. From the New York Times news section:

Ski, Party, Seed a Pandemic: The Travel Rules that Let COVID-19 Take Flight

By Selam Gebrekidan, Katrin Bennhold, Matt Apuzzo and David D. Kirkpatrick
Sept. 30, 2020

The World Health Organization said open borders would help fight disease. Experts, and a global treaty, emphatically agreed. But the scientific evidence was never behind them.

ISCHGL, Austria — They came from across the world to ski in the most famous resorts of the Austrian alps.

Jacob Homiller and his college friends flew in from the United States. Jane Witt, a retired lecturer, arrived from London for a family reunion. Annette Garten, the youth director at a tennis club in Hamburg, was celebrating her birthday with her husband and two grown children.

They knew in late February and early March that the coronavirus was spreading in nearby northern Italy, and across the other border in Germany, but no one was alarmed. Austrian officials downplayed concerns as tourists crowded into cable cars by day, and après-ski bars at night.

“The whole world meets in Ischgl,” said Ms. Garten.

Then they all went home, unwittingly taking the virus with them. Infected in Ischgl (pronounced “ISH-gul”) or in surrounding villages, thousands of skiers carried the coronavirus to more than 40 countries on five continents. Many of Iceland’s first known cases were traced to Ischgl. In March, nearly half the cases in Norway were linked to Austrian ski holidays.

Nine months into an outbreak that has killed a million people worldwide, Ischgl is where the era of global tourism, made possible by cheap airfares and open borders, collided with a pandemic. For decades, as trade and travel drew the world closer, public health policy, enshrined by treaty, encouraged global mass tourism by calling for open borders, even during outbreaks.

Foreign travel is wonderful, but it’s more of a luxury. Shutting down foreign travel is a lot cheaper way to fight a pandemic early than locking down a population late.

When the coronavirus emerged in China in January, the World Health Organization didn’t flinch in its advice: Do not restrict travel.

But what is now clear is that the policy was about politics and economics more than public health.

Public health records, scores of scientific studies and interviews with more than two dozen experts show the policy of unobstructed travel was never based on hard science. It was a political decision, recast as health advice, which emerged after a plague outbreak in India in the 1990s. By the time Covid-19 surfaced, it had become an article of faith.

“It’s part of the religion of global health: Travel and trade restrictions are bad,” said Lawrence O. Gostin, a professor of global health law at Georgetown University who helped write the global rules known as the International Health Regulations. “I’m one of the congregants.”

Two of the articles of faith of the public health elite up through last winter were: Quarantines don’t work and masks don’t work.

Covid-19 has shattered that faith. Before the pandemic, a few studies had demonstrated that travel restrictions delayed, but did not stop, the spread of SARS, pandemic flu and Ebola. Most, however, were based on mathematical models. No one had collected real-world data. The effect of travel restrictions on the spread of the latest coronavirus is still not understood.

“Anyone who is truthful is going to tell you it’s a big fat ‘We don’t know,’” said Prof. Keiji Fukuda, a former senior World Health Organization official who teaches at the University of Hong Kong.

Not knowing is especially vexing as the world seeks a way back to normalcy. For months, national leaders have invoked travel restrictions that vary in strictness and are often contradictory. Some shut their borders and simultaneously imposed domestic lockdowns, others required tests and quarantines. Many regularly revised their lists of risky destinations, sometimes responding tit for tat when their citizens were denied entry.

The restrictions have humbled powerful nations like the United States, whose citizens are no longer welcome across most of the world. Even so, President Trump has called his travel restrictions “the biggest decision we made so far” and attacked the W.H.O.’s early advice on borders as “disastrous.”

Still, it is too soon to know, based on data and hard science, how much travel restrictions help, and if they do, which restrictions help most. Experts who had defended open borders at the start of the pandemic now say countries should use judicious travel measures. The W.H.O. now calls for a gradual reopening in which each country weighs its own risks.

My impression is that a big advantage Europe has had over the U.S. in fighting the Coronavirus is it still has intracontinental national borders to shut down in case of emergency. The U.S. in contrast is one giant country, with metropolitan areas such as New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Cincinnati, Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City sprawling across more than one state.

 
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  1. Maybe most of the New York Times staff is actually dumb. Has anyone thought of that?

    I know they’re supposed to be Awesome Clever kids who done real good on the SAT, but somehow, it’s difficult to separate their opinions from that of a dumb ass.

    • Thanks: kaganovitch
    • LOL: Old and Grumpy
    • Replies: @njguy73
    , @anon
    , @Hypnotoad666
  2. Charon says:

    When the coronavirus emerged in China in January, the World Health Organization didn’t flinch in its advice: Do not restrict travel.

    But what is now clear is that the policy was about politics and economics more than public health.

    It’s always fun when the NYT prints the truth, even though it’s usually either by accident or by way of pursuing some larger, nefarious aim.

  3. Dan Hayes says:

    Steve,
    Two consecutive New York Times honest reports in a row! Will Wonders Never Cease?

  4. The World Health Organization said open borders would help fight disease. Experts, and a global treaty, emphatically agreed. But the scientific evidence was never behind them.

    One of the shocking things about this religion of minoritarian anti-nationalism, is that the stuff it preaches, that the West’s elites now all swear allegiance to, is just openly, illogical.

    Diversity is our greatest strength. (Difference does not create contention and conflict.) Immigration doesn’t suppress wages or raise housing prices. (The law of supply and demand doesn’t work.) Quarantines don’t work. (Disease does not spread through contact.) Gender is a social construct.

    Now they’ve tossed in–at least in the US–“black people should not be arrested if they don’t feel like being arrested”.

    This stuff isn’t just wrong as in “we did a careful study and the data don’t seem to support …”. No, it is illogical. Obvious bullshit which can not be true. And yet our “great and the good” mouth this nonsense as if they are savants.

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks
  5. Altai says:

    Even some countries like Australia were able to bring their cases down fast partly through internal restriction of movement like shutting down travel between Melbourne and Sydney. Obviously it’s easy to do that in a place like Australia with low general population density. You just shut down one road and the chain of contact between the two cities drops to almost nothing, there isn’t a continuous amount of human settlement.

    Conversely, Belgium and the Netherlands have very high population densities and a lack of spaces of low density between major cities and towns and seem to have had some of the worst rates per capita in Europe.

    And of course, there was no magic to how New Zealand stayed free of major outbreaks, it’s just very expensive and inconvenient to fly to New Zealand from Europe and other outbreak areas. There wasn’t a lot of travel to seed the base of an outbreak before the rest of the world shut down.

    Iceland imported about 40 cases in one plane load early on but Iceland is a country with such a small population that contact tracing and enforcing quarantines must have been so much easier combined with it’s isolation and the presence of the likes of deCode who were able to conduct testing at a greater per capita basis than the rest of Europe, were able to keep a lid on things. Again combined with it’s relative isolation that it could shut down non-cargo travel at it’s airports easily. Though at the time (Late Feb, early March) it would have been the off-season for them, the last 10 years have seen an epic Irish style level of tourism that might have led to it being hit with one of the worst outbreaks if it had started in high summer.

    Incidentally, deCode have conducted many estimates for total infection rates in Iceland through random screenings of the population. They published their first paper in April.

    Spread of SARS-CoV-2 in the Icelandic Population
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32289214/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Polynikes
  6. El Dato says:

    Two of the articles of faith of the public health elite up through last winter were: Quarantines don’t work and masks don’t work.

    Wasn’t it “masks work but there are none?” whereas now it’s rather more uncertain whether masks work.

    “The whole world meets in Ischgl,” said Ms. Garten.

    That place must be horrible then.

    Those poor villages that have been transformed into permanent-fiesta concentration camps. It’s just 1 mile or so across:

    Ischgl

    There should be new Hotel “Corona Waldesruh”.

    • LOL: bomag
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Paul Rise
  7. Mickey Kaus used to call it “Now You Tell Us” — noting the many articles that cut against liberal orthodoxy which get published just after the election.

  8. @AnotherDad

    It isn’t illogical at all, once you know what the Prime Directive is. Then it is all perfectly logical.

    All of these seemingly crazy rules, practices and articles of faith can be boiled down to two simple words: Get Whitey! If you’re feeling sort of chatty, you can use three words: Destroy All Goyim!

    Pretty elegant, really.

    • Agree: Charon
  9. Anonymous[297] • Disclaimer says:
    @Altai

    Iceland’s recent outbreak was caused by a couple of French tourists who tested positive on arrival but decided not to let it spoil their holiday. They went to two different bars and infected a bunch of people.

    • Replies: @Altai
  10. Consider, for a moment, that Austria has been the source of many modern problems.

  11. Probably also pertinent that in late summer most of Europe decided it was fine to let everyone cross borders to travel to the beach. Now we see cases once again skyrocketing.

    Europe still has the advantage that mortality over the past few months has been much lower than in the US. Probably related to lower obesity and fewer people of African descent, but mentioning that is also not PC.

  12. Uh-huh … I see writing about white skiers traveling around, one of your interests regarding the spread of the Kung Flu, as I recall. Maybe it’s in another paragraph not excerpted here, but I don’t see anything about our southern border with Mexico. Do you see immigration mentioned? Did you do a ctrl-f for “immig”? (No, I will not click on the NY Times on purpose – that’s your job.)

    Look, from what I see, at least it’s not another article full of lies. That’s good. Does anyone reading here think that this will somehow affect their thinking on Open Borders when it comes to immigration? I’m sure the NY Times would just say we need to equip the Border Patrol and airport customs/immigration officers with test kits for those who are sneezing up a flu-storm. Plus, we need to let any asylum seekers in anyway because persecution. (They can get tested next winter when they take a trip home to visit family.)

    Don’t buy the NY Times long. This Kung Flu Panic-Fest won’t deter them from the narrative in general.

    • Replies: @bomag
  13. So what’s next? People of sub-Saharan African Descent Are Different From Everyone Else, maybe? I suspect the NYT will purge these heretics in their midst, though.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  14. dearieme says:

    How do you apply quarantine at the Mexican border?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  15. Nobody knows anybody who knows anybody who died of BULL$$HIT-2020. It is a hoax. And only worthless, craven imbeciles are worried about it at this point.

    But, on the bright side, South Park liberally appropriated my terms “facediaper” and “chin diaper” and “neck diaper” in their pandemic special last night – among my life’s proudest moments. God bless Trey Parker and Matt Stone for popularizing my inventions.

    Get Out Live Life!

    And burn that filthy face diaper.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @anon
  16. TTSSYF says:

    There was, at one point, an abrupt shift from referring only to AIDS, to clearly distinguishing between being “HIV positive” vs. having the symptoms of the disease. But for some reason, there is no effort to use terms to clearly differentiate between testing positive for the SARS-CoV-2 virus vs. having COVID-19, the disease. Gee, I wonder why.

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    , @Rob
  17. O/T

    Navy SEALs change official ethos to be gender neutral, remove ‘brotherhood’ and more

    The U.S. Navy SEALs and the Navy Special Warfare Combatant-craft Crewmen (SWCC) recently changed their ethos and creed statements to reflect a gender-neutral presentation of the elite Navy outfits, doing away with gendered terms like “brotherhood.”

    One change to the SEAL ethos was to alter a sentence in the first paragraph of the ethos to say, “Common citizens with uncommon desire to succeed” instead of the original, “A common man with uncommon desire to succeed.”

    “The previous versions of the SEAL Ethos and SWCC Creed were written prior to the law allowing women to serve as operators in Naval Special Warfare. The changes do not in any way reflect lowering standards of entry, rather they ensure that all those who meet the requirements to train to become a SEAL or SWCC are represented in the ethos or creed they live out. This improves the posture of the NSW force by ensuring we draw from the greatest pool of talent available.

    Stroup confirmed, “To date, no women completed the SEAL or SWCC qualification training pipelines.”

    Let’s hope that when ‘they’ do, they look like Dizzy Flores…

    Source: https://americanmilitarynews.com/2020/09/navy-seals-change-official-ethos-to-be-gender-neutral-remove-brotherhood-and-more/

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Marty
  18. Anon[194] • Disclaimer says:

    People of African descent are largely immune to COVID 19/20; black Africa has been mostly unaffected by it.

    It is people of Neanderthal descent, including African Americans (with about ~20-25% European admixture) who are affected by COVID. So far, most of the risk alleles for developing COVID respiratory illness have been shown to have a Neanderthal origin. Asians have the highest frequency, Europeans less and pure Africans virtually zero.

    COVID 19/20 is natural selection at work, eliminating subhuman Neanderthal DNA from planet Earth, as usual. A 60,000 year tradition of excellence.

    • LOL: Charon
  19. @Anon

    A fresh take!

    • LOL: MEH 0910
    • Replies: @U. Ranus
  20. tyrone says:
    @Anon

    Did you just call Neanderthals subhuman!?……..me have fire-hardened pointy stick that says different.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  21. slumber_j says:

    The U.S. in contrast is one giant country, with metropolitan areas such as New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Cincinnati, Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City sprawling across more than one state.

    Good of you to give the ‘Nati a shoutout. I’m reminded of my high school years there during Peak Cold War when the Cincinnati Enquirer would run thumbsuckers about nuclear armageddon the main purpose of which was to reassure the citizenry that their fine city was still Major League enough to be like #3 on the USSR’s hit list: the GE jet engine plant was always a big reason.

    Since my grandparents literally lived at the foot of Cheyenne Mountain, the whole argument always seemed a bit forced.

    • Thanks: AnotherDad
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    , @Reg Cæsar
  22. @Dan Hayes

    What are these venal, amoral, manipulative lying sacks up to? What, the old grey lady’s senility is retrograde now? Cut it out. Maybe it’s just clickbait, because they’re weeks from turning off their barely-subscribed lights for the last time? Maybe they want to close the borders so WE can’t travel? Let’s just believe Crying Wolf Boy this one last time.

    For the children.

    • Thanks: Dan Hayes
  23. Anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:

    They’re just prepping the public for the incoming Biden administration’s travel restrictions. Otherwise it will look strange when they support a policy they previously condemned.

  24. Polynikes says:
    @Altai

    Eventually you have to go back to normal. You can’t hide from it forever. Iceland, Australia and New Zeland might have prevented spread for a little while, but it eventually got there. The contact tracing scheme is security theater and the notion is absurd on its face.

    Slowing the spread is possible but not worth the measures taken if hospitals aren’t overwhelmed. The previous twenty years of guidelines were still spot on. Why we chucked them all out the window and panicked, I’ll never know. Maybe we’re a much more fearful and risk averse people than previous generations.

    —-

    On a separate note, I’d like to congratulate the NYT on coming around to the conclusion a few of us “racists” concluded six months ago. I can’t imagine why legacy media is dying.

    • Replies: @Altai
  25. I wonder if Ronnie Unz read this article? Would this dampen his enthusiasm for open border and his beloved cholos walking across the border.. It’s in his paper after all…

  26. @Anon

    Don’t tell “African” Americans that they are Neanderthals.

  27. bomag says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Does anyone reading here think that this will somehow affect their thinking on Open Borders when it comes to immigration?… This Kung Flu Panic-Fest won’t deter them from the narrative in general.

    Agreed. It is like trying to reason a drug addict out of his habit.

    We tried getting some traction on slowing the invasion when drug resistant TB started showing up from south of the border. The Narrative keepers pretty much responded by sending even more air conditioned buses to the caravans.

  28. @dearieme

    You put ’em in cages, GASP! (No, don’t gasp, you might catch something.)

  29. @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    .mpegs or it didn’t happen… the South Park show, that is.

    I didn’t know it was still on. I’d love to watch that one on youtube or their site and see your handiwork. Thanks!

  30. @tyrone

    When did you all learn about making fire? Damn, someone messed up. No way you all thought of that yourselves.

    • Replies: @tyrone
  31. unit472 says:

    Shutting down international travel isn’t so easy. While Trump could ban flights from China to the US we found out the major vector was flights from Milan to New York. Then what do you do about your own nationals trapped overseas? You have to take them back ( the US had some 40,000 in China) but no facilities or legal authority to hold and quarantine them upon their return. That has to change.

    The world got a look at what it was up against ( despite Chinese and WHO lies) with the cruise of the Diamond Princess. It was clear from what happened on that ship that the virus was highly infectious and this was known by February 3 when the ship was quarantined in Yokohama. Of course every government on earth was more concerned with promoting GDP than public health so they all pretended Covid wasn’t a serious problem… until it was.

  32. @Charon

    Charon, this may be the truth but if Trump quotes this in the next debate the nyt will counter with his tax returns.

  33. Anonymous[348] • Disclaimer says:

    Basically, the whole NYT/Economist style narrative – which is and has been more or less the leitmotif governing the west these past 50 years – concerning the ‘benefits’ of massive uncontrolled third world immigration, the will-to-power drive for ‘equality’ etc etc has been “politics masquerading as science”.

    Nothing new here.

  34. @Redneck farmer

    Red, no the story will be “Few blacks ski; the fallacy of the World meets in Ischgl.”

    • Thanks: Redneck farmer
  35. Steve, cuomo has an ever changing list of states whose citizens must self quarantine upon arrival in the Empire State. I doubt anyone pays attention to the decree or the pompous ass who issues them. Did I mention I loathe cuomo?

    • Agree: Redman
  36. dvorak says:

    The U.S. in contrast is one giant country, with metropolitan areas such as New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Cincinnati, Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City sprawling across more than one state.

    This is why any negotiated secession of the Blue areas should be based on Basins not on States.

  37. I’ve been to Mexico four times this year, and even with the travel restrictions, it’s relatively safe.

    They take the China plague more seriously down there, but I’m still planning a vacation to Mexico City or Morelia before the end of the year. I can’t pass up on $52 air fare round trip from Tijuana.

    I’m in my mid 50’s, and I’m not buying the fear mongering portrayed by the powers that be. Sure there may be a risk, but I’m willing to take that risk because I’m an American. I’m free to live my life as a freedom loving misfit.

  38. Have you considered their bit of honesty is just a ploy to sell subscriptions? The mass NYC exodus has gotta hurt their bottom line. Also the rioting brats aren’t exactly coming across as readers of anything. So it might just be that MAGA and independents are their lone potential for a growth market. Don’t fall for it!

  39. Altai says:
    @Polynikes

    But it’s not just a case of it being present or not. It’s the size of scale of an initial outbreak and being able to keep a handle on it that is important too. That buying of time allows you to make better efforts protecting the most vulnerable, get messages out to the public to take extra efforts to being hygienic and get the medical supplies you’ll need.

    Iceland and New Zealand are both operating as normal and provided they make everyone who travels there from abroad self-isolate for some time, they wouldn’t even be risking an outbreak. If people in those countries decide that tourism is worth a covid outbreak they’ll still be vastly better off than those countries who got taken by surprise by being among the first to suffer outbreaks.

    The lower the initial outbreak numbers are the easier it is to test and to police people self-isolating. That’s why it was so devastating for the outbreaks in NY state and city in the orthodox community, they were just incubating a large reservoir of cases at the start leading to an explosion as the base level of cases was so large.

    They were so terrible at social distancing that the national guard briefly shut down and confined to homes the town of New Rochelle but by then it was too late.

    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
  40. anon[181] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charon

    Itlooks to me as if the NYT is slandering WHO, actually. If you follow the New York Times link, it doesn’t support the newspaper’s claim. The linked article actually doesn’t mention any WHO position on travel restrictions. It’s about declaring an emergency or not, and countries possibly responding to that declaration various ways. The closest thing to what the NYT claims was WHO’s position is:

    Although several countries, including the United States, have begun screening air travelers arriving from Wuhan, Dr. Tedros said that the W.H.O. prefers exit screening for people leaving affected regions.”

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  41. Anon[226] • Disclaimer says:
    @El Dato

    Wasn’t it “masks work but there are none?”

    Nope. It was “masks don’t work”. A cynical lie to serve the “greater good” of preserving supplies for healthcare workers.

    It took a New York Times oped to allow the truth to be exposed in polite society.

    • Replies: @gcochran
  42. Notice how the focus is on Austria spreading the disease. Never mind where Austria and Northern Italy got it from. The last thing the NYT wants to do is call out China for not shutting down their borders around the biggest holiday of the year and letting millions travel to Italy, the US, etc. Nope, it’s those evil Austrians that caused this by getting the WHO to say open borders are great and the real virus is racism.

    • Replies: @Anonymous euro
  43. @The Alarmist

    Quite true. Freud lived in Vienna, which is in Austria, and in his very own words, his goal was “bringing (us) the plague.” Frankfurt is not technically in Vienna, but it’s not far off, may as well be. And then of course there’ (((Austrian))) economics. Rather a lot of modern-day trouble from all those pesky (((Austrians))).

  44. Stick says:

    Maybe stacking people in tight quarters isn’t healthy?

  45. Altai says:
    @Anonymous

    It may be that the key factor in China, Korea and Japan containing things is a much higher rate of compliance with self-isolation following likely or confirmed infection.

    In China it wasn’t so much left to trust. Many urban areas had people checking your id to make sure you both lived in the area and that people under self-isolation orders weren’t breaking quarantine.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  46. res says:
    @Charon

    I think the nefarious aim is preserving their credibility during the inevitable hindsight analysis of the COVID-19 response. They can point to articles like this rather than the exactly opposite things they were writing when it mattered most.

    • Agree: Travis, vinteuil
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  47. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    Common citizens seems to have been selected to avoid the dread words men and women. Men and women would have been offensive to the thousands of gender fluid non binary transitioning, between human and preferred animal weirdos qualified to join the SEALS.

    The word citizens is very very problematic. It is offensive to the many non citizens in America.

    In order to avoid universal offense to any and all, I suggest using the sentence “Common critters with uncommon desire to succeed”. Their new insignia can be intertwined Cs

    • LOL: The Alarmist
  48. anon[108] • Disclaimer says:

    The most effective measure is to immediately lock down the country where the virus originated. If China had stopped all outbound travels even by mid January, this outbreak would not have occurred around the world. But greed and pride prevented them from making this crucial call. Now they are suffering the much deserved hit to their image. Chinese tourists are now even less welcomed around the world.

    However some good can come out of this mistake. For one it is finally turning many against globalism and international travels. I have always hated the hypocrisy of those globetrotting “we are the world” open border champions who then scream global warming at every turn. Airplanes are the biggest polluters! A significant decline in international travel would be a great thing for the world, in more ways than one.

    The economy of the Western world has been switching far too much to the Service industry. Restaurants, bars and hotels have replaced factories and they are low paying jobs. A significant reduction in service industry jobs will force our leaders to institute policies that bring back manufacturing, such as a policy that requires “essential manufacturing” to return to the US, including medicine, medical devices, steel, high tech and defense manufacturing.

    Meanwhile the switch to remote work will help reduce congestion in cities by encouraging people to move to lower cost areas, live closer to their extended family, bring growth to previously depressed areas, allow families to live on one income and homeschool their children, simultaneously lessening the power of cities and the education establishment — two bastions of liberalism. It’ll also take away the excuse/need for mass immigration esp. for white collar work as workers can now work from anywhere in the world.

    Something good usually comes out of something bad. A lot of good can come out of this, if we know how to capitalize on it. The million lives need not be lost in vain.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  49. @TTSSYF

    But for some reason, there is no effort to use terms to clearly differentiate between testing positive for the SARS-CoV-2 virus vs. having COVID-19, the disease.

    My wife is currently in a nursing home. They called me yesterday to say “We had a resident test positive. On Monday the patient was tested twice with two “rapid result” tests both were negative. On Tuesday at the hospital for a procedure, she tested positive. On Wednesday, 2 rapid tests from both the home and the hospital were both negative, a “lab” test was also negative.” Instead of considering the the positive hospital test as defective or contaminated, the local health department is counting her as “Recovered Covid patient”. Don’t trust any of the numbers.

    • Agree: TTSSYF
  50. I listen to Dylan’s “Let me Die in my Footsteps” a lot these days. I’m surrounded by lib cowards who think we’re living through the Black Death. Get outside!

  51. @Buffalo Joe

    Steve, cuomo has an ever changing list of states whose citizens must self quarantine upon arrival in the Empire State.

    Yeah, it’s just tit for tat for the Florida officials saying New Yorkers and New Jersians should check in when driving into Florida a few months back. Did any of them dutifully pull over at the border leaving Georgia or Alabama?

    As Peak Stupidity stated in “More calls to ‘Seal the Borders”‘, the State of Florida should have started turned away New Yorkers back in the 1970s.

  52. @Altai

    You want to know what they do in China now, Altai? You’ve got an app on your phone that’s either green, orange, or red. If it’s green, meaning you have been determined (somehow) to not be infected, and you step into an “outbreak” province, of which there is at lease one right now, your phone app icon or whatever turns orange.

    If you leave, it will STAY orange, cause you’ve been there. You must quarantine there for 2 weeks at your expense. If you are found to be free and clear you may leave and turn green. If not, you turn red.

    Now, you’ve got guys like Ron Unz who loves all things China and people full of hysteria who think we should emulate China cause “look, Ma, no flu!” It’s becoming an Orwellian nightmare over there, what with the hard push toward being cashless too.

    #FindANewBugOutLocation

    .

    PS: Do you think this COVID-19 will be the end of this? (That’s a general “you”, not you, Altai.)

  53. @res

    Agreed. (Ran out for now)

  54. @Charon

    When the coronavirus emerged in China in January, the World Health Organization didn’t flinch in its advice: Do not restrict travel.

    But what is now clear is that the policy was about politics and economics more than public health.

    I think the most accurate statement would be:
    “the policy was about open-borders ideology more than public health.”

    In NYC the advent of the Xi virus was countered with signs at subways entrances warning against xenophobia. (A sure sign that a bureaucracy has too much money.) New SARS virus … watch out for racism!

    If an asteroid was zinging toward a collision with planet earth … we’d be getting non-stop lectures on how the most important thing was that privilege rich white nations must insure that there was representative world “diversity” in those selected for the bunker.

  55. By Selam Gebrekidan…

    He should be reporting on the riots:

    Selam Gebrekidan = Besiege landmark.

    Katrin Bennhold…

    “A native German who spent most of her career based in France, Ms. Bennhold’s reporting has ranged from covering terrorist attacks in Algiers to youth rioting in Paris’s ethnically mixed suburbs, teenagers addicted to Facebook and rogue trading at one of France’s biggest banks.” –LinkedIn profile

    Infected in Ischgl (pronounced “ISH-gul”)

    As opposed to what? “Ish Ka-BIB- bul”? You’d think the Times readership could figure it out.

  56. njguy73 says:
    @RichardTaylor

    They’re not stupid. You got to be smart to bullshit at that level.

  57. I recall they first trotted this out during the Obama era West African Ebola Outbreak in 2013 – if we didn’t allow travel from areas with an Ebola Epidemic (i.e., Liberia) to a Nation with zero Ebola cases (i.e., the United States), we would make the spread of Ebola way worse for reasons that were never fully explained. Now Biden takes credit for handling the Ebola outbreak, which involved the U.S. starting with zero cases and subsequently getting cases by virtue of travel of healthcare personnel from West Africa to the United States which is apparently some kind of achievement.

    (FWIW, Ebola outbreaks tend to burn themselves out quickly by killing the hosts with its hemorrhagic fever too quickly to spread the virus broadly – people tend to avoid others writhing in pain and bleeding from the eyes, nose, mouth and other orifices).

  58. @slumber_j

    Good of you to give the ‘Nati a shoutout. I’m reminded of my high school years there during Peak Cold War when the Cincinnati Enquirer would run thumbsuckers about nuclear armageddon the main purpose of which was to reassure the citizenry that their fine city was still Major League enough to be like #3 on the USSR’s hit list: the GE jet engine plant was always a big reason.

    Thanks sj. Indeed i remember that weird home-town-pride desire to promote us up the target list. Cleveland may be bigger … but they’ll bomb us first. Go us!

    But the plant was–is–a natural high priority target if you thought “recovery/continued war”. Some of the highest end technical/industrial capability in the world. (People think a cell phone app is “tech”.) It was a high priority target and the natural place to land a Cincinnati bomb.

    I had my first (W2) job working at a diner on the west side of the valley (corner of Glendale-Milford and Rt.4)–maybe 1-1/2 miles crow flies from the middle of the plant, plenty of GE guys in for lunch. I thought–at least if i’m on shift … no radiation poisoning for me!

    • Replies: @slumber_j
  59. Marty says:
    @The Alarmist

    Yesterday on SF radio, a baseball writer named Schulman referred to the “13-man bullpen,” then spontaneously corrected himself: “sorry, 13-person.”

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  60. U. Ranus says:
    @Steve Sailer

    A fresh take!

    Former Unz contributor Peter Frost speculated: Does a commensal relationship exist between coronaviruses and some human populations?

    Who knows, maybe our special relationship with Corona-Chan really is another benefit of our proud Neanderthal ancestry (besides striking good looks.)

  61. anon[269] • Disclaimer says:
    @RichardTaylor

    Maybe most of the New York Times staff is actually dumb.

    How many commenters have every actually met a journo-list with a degree from a J-school? Not necessarily New Duranty Times level, either. Or how many have ever been around J-school students on a college campus? Or a pretty face that stands in front of the camera for the local TV station?

    Genuinely curious about anyone’s experience in this area.

  62. Mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration and open borders bring infectious diseases to the USA.

    Republican Party politician whores such as Marco Rubio and Teddy “Goldman Sachs Hubby” Cruz and Jebby Bush and the Republican Party donors all push open borders mass legal immigration and open borders mass illegal immigration and all of the Republican Party ruling class pushes open borders and globalization.

    Teddy Cruz pushes open borders mass legal immigration and Teddy Cruz pushes to flood more and more visa foreigners into the USA.

    Teddy Cruz pushes open borders and Teddy Cruz doesn’t give a damn if INFECTIOUS DISEASES are brought into the USA by foreigners and globe trotting transnational American boobs.

    Dartmouth in New Hampshire had some jet setter globalizer money-grubber turd and some Boston drug company twat had this damn BAT SOUP FEVER and they spread it around.

    Deport and remove all foreigners and QUARANTINE the globalizer jet setter twats now!

    Trump and the rancid Republican Party push open borders mass legal immigration.

    Trump and the rancid Republican Party push open borders mass illegal immigration and the GOP refuses to deport the upwards of 30 million illegal alien invaders in the USA.

    Vote for Charles Pewitt as a write-in candidate for president on November 3.

    Tweets from 2015:

  63. Jew billionaire George Soros and Jew billionaire Shelly Adelson and the Jew-controlled NY Times push open borders mass legal immigration and open borders mass illegal immigration.

    Carlos Slim is an Eastern Mediterranean Mexican Lebanese billionaire who controls or used to control a big chunk of the shares of the NY Times and he pushes OPEN BORDERS mass legal immigration and open borders mass illegal immigration.

    Open borders mass legal immigration and open borders mass illegal immigration and open borders jet setter globalizer go-anywhere-I-damn-well-please types who go across borders constantly all spread INFECTIOUS DISEASES like bastards.

    Tweets from 2015:

  64. Travis says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Remember when Cuomo argued against a quarantines ? When Trump floated the idea of placing a quarantine on New York to stop the spread back in March. Cuomo fought hard against this. He stated that preventing people from moving in and out of the tri-state area would be illegal. “This would be a declaration of war on states, a federal declaration of war.“- Andrew Cuomo – March 28, 2020.

    So the President cannot impose a quarantine , only the governors can impose quarantines on other states, according to Gov. Cuomo. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/28/ny-gov-cuomo-says-trump-has-no-authority-to-impose-quarantine.html

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  65. epebble says:
    @Anon

    For Science geeks:

    The major genetic risk factor for severe COVID-19 is inherited from Neanderthals

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2818-3

    Death Stats: (per million)

    Eritrea: 0
    Burundi: 0.08
    Tanzania: 0.3
    Mozambique: 2
    Uganda: 2
    Rwanda 2
    Western Sahara: 2
    DRC: 3
    Benin: 3
    Burkina Faso: 3
    Niger: 3
    South Sudan: 4
    Nigeria: 5
    Ivory Coast: 5
    Guinea: 5
    Chad: 5
    Angola: 6
    Somalia: 6
    Mali: 6
    Togo: 6

    U.K.: 621
    U.S.A. 640
    Spain: 684
    Belgium: 863

    • Replies: @Travis
  66. Paul Rise says:
    @El Dato

    The message was literally- Masks don’t work, so don’t use them or we won’t have them for doctors and nurses.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  67. anon[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Indeed, True Dat man!

    Look at all the fake images obviously made using photoshop

    Allegedly The Parque Taruma cemetery during the coronavirus outbreak in Manaus, Brazil. REUTERS/Bruno Kelly
    https://i.insider.com/5ecedefa1918242fe665315b?width=900&format=jpeg&auto=webp

    Allegedly Aerial photos of Nossa Senhora Aparecida cemetery
    https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/UUGoGB81LIkiQmjWvuHjbw–~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA–/https://media-mbst-pub-ue1.s3.amazonaws.com/creatr-uploaded-images/2020-07/a683ea40-cb1b-11ea-bfff-1db6187f1f7f

    Allegedly The Vila Formosa Cemetery is the largest in Latin America. Credit: Alexandre Schneider/Getty Images
    https://images.s.7news.com.au/publication/C-1053009/55756db833d8207f1b46dedf071b43ed62e7457f.jpg?imwidth=828&impolicy=sevennews_v2

    Fake News:

    https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-in-mexico-overwhelms-cemetery/g-54316392

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52241221

  68. @slumber_j

    to reassure the citizenry that their fine city was still Major League enough to be like #3 on the USSR’s hit list

    But Cincy played both sides, what with a Major League team called the Reds. Though they went by “the Redlegs” during the Red Scare:

    Perhaps the Soviets were offended. (Aren’t “redlegs” US Marines? By the way, the Reds as I write are in a classic pitchers’ duel, down 1-0 in the bottom of the eighth in Atlanta. Only eight hits for both teams combined.)

    Later, the city lost the NBA Royals to Kansas City (-Omaha). The club dropped that name in deference to a year-old expansion team. So much for the NBA in ’72.

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    , @J.Ross
  69. Redman says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    I met Andy Cuomo in a Duane Reade about 18 years ago. He was in front of me on line (in sunglasses) buying a pack of Parliament cigarettes and didn’t seem too excited that I recognized him.

    I recall the brand because it’s what I assumed only girls smoked.

  70. Escher says:

    It was a political decision, recast as health advice, which emerged after a plague outbreak in India in the 1990s. By the time Covid-19 surfaced, it had become an article of faith.

    What’s an outbreak of a medieval disease in comparison to the benefits of setting up cheap call centers AND seeing the Taj Mahal?

  71. Coemgen says:

    A lot of people were red-pilled when a frail looking Joe Biden made a forced and out of context maneuver by looking directly at “the camera” and saying, “Vote!”

  72. vinteuil says:

    Mr. Sailer, I think you’re getting suckered, here.

    When the NYT talks about “open borders,” in this piece, they’re not talking about uncontrolled mass migration – which they still love more than life itself.

    No – they’re talking about “global mass tourism” – i.e., regular guys like you & me being able to visit Rome & Paris because airfares came down after deregulation.

    For more than 40 years, now, The Great & The Good have hated having to share the skies with οἱ πολλοί – Now, finally, the Covid “pandemic” has given them the excuse they’ve always wanted to exclude the smelly proles & to restore international travel to an elite status marker.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
  73. I once had a meeting at the top of the Dubois Tower, which most Cincinnatians pronounced as “Du-boys” tower, and looking out I had a great view down the Ohio River valley, so I remarked “What. great view.” A camera crew from WLWT was there to shoot B-roll, and they said, “Yeah, you can see the fountain from here.”

    Gotta love Cincy… “We’re Number Three !”

  74. gcochran says:
    @Anon

    They said it years earlier – and it wasn’t true then, either.

  75. @RichardTaylor

    Maybe most of the New York Times staff is actually dumb. Has anyone thought of that?

    At some point dishonesty and stupidity merge into a propaganda singularity. For example, at the NYT, Paul Krugman (IQ 150) and Charles Blow (IQ 75) are both equally able to say that Trump is a “fascist,” “racist,” “xenophobe” who is a “unique threat to democracy.”

    Blow probably thinks he is being really insightful and persuasive. But in reality, he is just too dumb to recognize any logical flaws in the Narrative. Krugman, OTOH, presumably understands that he is just serving up bias-confirmation name-calling to the Trump-hating masses who wouldn’t be able to understand his Keynesian critique of economic policy. If Krugman ever has a counter-narrative thought, he can recognize that it is counter-narrative and suppress it accordingly.

    Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/725596-crimestop-means-the-faculty-of-stopping-short-as-though-by

    In other words, once you have outsource your thinking to the collective Hivemind, as the writers at the New York Times have done, intelligence is entirely beside the point.

    • Replies: @James O'Meara
  76. tyrone says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    That woman with the GIANT tits had mercy on us. mmmmmm make cro- magnon tasty

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  77. @Pop Warner

    Northern Italy is home to a Chinese diaspora – they have a huge presence in the prestigious Made in Italy tag. The whole regions around Milan. That’s the original source in northern Italy – Chinese expats going back and forth and passing it along to the skiers eventually.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  78. tyrone says:
    @dvorak

    No way ! it should be based on hatred ,just like in the good ole days.

  79. slumber_j says:
    @AnotherDad

    No, look: any Soviet in his or her right mind would definitely want to bomb that. But is it really, like, Top 5??

    Anyway, funny about your planned vaporization back in the day, and congratulations on muddling through. You’re a Survivor…which I guess means I am too!

  80. @dvorak

    Watershed nations. That’s the way the Indians did it. I like it. Thank you, Dvorak, for the map.

    Now, some music that just popped into my head (from Nomads, Indians, Saints:

    Honestly, as good as the music is, the lyrics are really being about being up on a divide between watersheds, such as you see signs about on the highway. There’s no such thing as being “up on the watershed”. Nice guitar work and harmony!

  81. @anon

    Not to be a grammar Commie or anything, but shouldn’t that be “… as if the NYT is slandering WHOM actually”?

    Carry on…

  82. Anonymous[383] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Genuinely curious about anyone’s experience in this area.

    I know a few. They are not *stupid*, they can gin up a story from a load of dispirate facts reasonably effectively, but they are not really curious. They don’t tend to go into depth in any particular topic. Because of that, they are prone to groupthink and intellectual arrogance. A bad combo.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  83. @Buffalo Joe

    Steve, Cuomo has an ever-changing list of states whose citizens must self quarantine upon arrival in the Empire State.

    Does that include expatriates who once represented New York in the US Senate?

    Surprise, surprise, surprise: Bob Dole is only the second-oldest living senator:

    https://bioguideretro.congress.gov/Home/MemberDetails?memIndex=B001026

    (This fellow, along with senator-for-a-month-or-two Dean Barkley, are the only third party former senators living. Unless you count Joe Lieberman.)

    If Biden stumbles, Democrats have plenty of retired senators to call on to replace him.

    Fred Harris. (b. 1930) Remember him? Going after the “awl companies”.
    Mike Gravel (b. 1930)
    Walter Mondale (b. 1928)
    James Abourezk (b. 1931)
    J. Bennett Johnston (b. 1932)
    Lowell Weiker (b. 1931)

    Hawaii, Kentucky, and Vermont have no former senators living.

  84. @Anonymous

    a load of dispirate facts

    Your load is in port. Go sign for it.

  85. @Marty

    Unz needs to add an ‘Ugh!’ Button.

  86. @anon

    I knew one engineering student who switched to Journalism because he liked that better. He was a bright guy. I knew another guy who was an artistic type who went into Journalism for his major. However, that major was the 2nd easiest at the U, with #1 being the general studies type thing for the football players. Most of them started in that because it was the 2nd easiest, which suited them.

    They are not the brightest bulbs in the fixture, not by a long shot.

    • Agree: RichardTaylor
  87. @anon

    You had a great comment there, top notch in my book, #108, except for this one thing:

    Airplanes are the biggest polluters!

    No way. Modern high-bypass turbofans are some of the cleanest combustion engines there are in the world. There is almost nothing coming out the back but more air, water, and CO2. That means excellent efficient combustion. Those last 2 items are the products of combustion, not by-products, like the NOx’s that used to come out heavily from cars, or carbon particulates.

    CO2 ain’t no pollution. It’s a natural part of the air, for crying out loud, needed for plants to grow, and what we breath.

    Speaking of “CO2 ain’t no pollution”, neither is Rock & Roll, dammit:

    AC/DC tells it like it is:

  88. Rob says:
    @TTSSYF

    I wonder how many stupid and/or low information people that so-clever obfuscation killed. First, no that we have much better microbiology and especially genetic technology, diseases and their causal agents should have the same names. AIDS should be caused by the AIDS virus.especially si in the cases of AIDS, where virtually everyone who tested positive died of it. How many dumb people thought they weren’t contagious, because they only had the virus, not AIDS, or thought they didn’t have any health concerns, just because the were HIV-positive, it wasn’t like they had AIDS or something. The especially dim-witted probably thought they didn’t have the virus. ‘Positive’ means ‘good, no?

    If they really wanted to mislead the rubes, which was the point of the silly distinction, but not kill dumb homosexuals and IV drug users, they should have referred to infection as prodromal AIDS. It is accurate, they have the disease, but are not yet displaying symptoms. As an additional positive effect, people would have learned a new word, which would make Reg Cæsar happy, at the very least.

  89. Charles says:

    But WHY is The Times deciding to print facts? That is the $64,000 question. As Columbo once said: “Yes, there is always a motive”.

  90. J.Ross says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    I’ve never heard “redlegs,” but apparently it is a kind of bird, an Irishman in the English Caribbean (cf redneck), or an artilleryman. Never used for marines, but there is a marine specialization which prepares and supports amphibious lamdings, and they use red patches to distinguish themselves from the infantrymen doing the actual landing, to include patches on their legs.

  91. @Hypnotoad666

    It sound like you’re saying there’s some kinda thing, I think they call it ethics, or maybe religion, that would make a high-IQ person like Krugman stop before using their IQ to craft clever lies.

    But ethics is all lower-IQ-than-Krugman bullshit, right? That’s why we let the Jews, blacks and women handle the humanities, and concentrate important stuff like string theory. What could go wrong?

    “I cannot – yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do “must” and “cannot” meet? Yet I must – but I cannot!” — Paul Krugman

  92. J.Ross says:
    @anon

    Do I need to meet a guy who bashes his head into the wall to evaluate his intellect or emotional stability? These guys don’t exactly work in secret. An unusually stupid caller tried harassing Dennis Prager about demonstrating that the NYT and the Bezos Blog actually have leftist tendencies and Prager avoided blurting out, look, it’s a newspaper, this isn’t something I’m piecing together by scanning the electromagnetic spectrum at night.
    Or, barring some really good anecdote, would we be worse off in any way if these people weren’t there any more?

  93. Travis says:
    @epebble

    does the neanderthal gene make people fat and diabetic ?

    • Replies: @epebble
    , @Wilkey
  94. @Travis

    Travis, Trump is the president, cuomo is the Emperor.

  95. Wilkey says:

    Foreign travel is wonderful, but it’s more of a luxury. Shutting down foreign travel is a lot cheaper way to fight a pandemic early than locking down a population late.

    Foreign travel and immigration are basically sacraments in the globalist/multicult/PC/SJW new religion. They’re roughly equivalent to missionary work for Mormons or various other Christian denominations. The Left has been mocking all the churches that insist on reopening, but it was the Left’s “missionaries” who were busily spreading COVID in the early stages of the pandemic.

    The government is now floating another $2 trillion stimulus package, to add to another $2 trillion stimulus package that was passed back in March.

    I’m not sure how much of that is real spending and how much this whole mess will ultimately cost of us, but if you assume the cost comes to somewhere around $4 trillion, and that the result of all of our efforts will be to save one million lives – one million people who would mostly be dead within a year or two anyway – then it will come to $4 million for every single life saved, and probably at least $2 million per man year.

    That’s quite a sobering thought, especially when you contemplate all the other things we could have done with the money. We could have bought a Tesla or Prius for 100 million Americans*. We could have probably outfitted every single home and condo complex in America with solar panels and/or windmills. We could have cut $100,000 checks to all ~40 million black Americans as reparations for slavery. We could have invaded and occupied at least two or three good sized Middle Eastern countries. And, though it’s really just a mere rounding error, we could have spent $20-30 billion on a wall on the US border with Mexico.

    * Of course just printing lots of paper or virtual money isn’t remotely the same as actually performing all the work required to build Teslas or to build and install solar panels, but don’t tell that to your average Letfist.

  96. epebble says:
    @Travis

    No mention of those. The authors speculate, however, that these genetic differences may be due to natural selection to resist different germs/diseases.

    • Replies: @Anon
  97. Anon[194] • Disclaimer says:
    @epebble

    Latin Americans have a gene from Neanderthals that predisposes them to diabetes.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-25506198

    Other Neanderthal genes are associated with increased belly fat.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/10/your-neandertal-dna-making-your-belly-fat-ancient-genome-offers-clues

    The best part about Neanderthal DNA is that there’s very little of it on our X chromosome, because we mostly inherited it from Neanderthal males banging Sapiens females. The reason why diabetes, COVID, heart disease, etc hits non-African men harder than women is because they don’t have an extra X chromosome to cancel out the horrible effects of Neanderthal X-DNA. Almost all of the chromosomal Neanderthal material is harmful due to inbreeding among these archaic humans. Neanderthal women were truly subhuman genetic trash — and Sapiens men pay a heavy toll for it.

    • Replies: @anon
  98. Wilkey says:

    The best part about Neanderthal DNA is that there’s very little of it on our X chromosome, because we mostly inherited it from Neanderthal males banging Sapiens females. The reason why diabetes, COVID, heart disease, etc hits non-African men harder than women is because they don’t have an extra X chromosome to cancel out the horrible effects of Neanderthal X-DNA. Almost all of the chromosomal Neanderthal material is harmful due to inbreeding among these archaic humans. Neanderthal women were truly subhuman genetic trash — and Sapiens men pay a heavy toll for it.

    Absolutely none of what you wrote makes sense.

    • Agree: Coemgen
    • Replies: @epebble
  99. Wilkey says:
    @Travis

    Diabetes and obesity are larger problems in African Americans, who have less Neanderthal DNA, than in white Americans.

  100. Anonymous[185] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous euro

    Northern Italy is home to a Chinese diaspora – they have a huge presence in the prestigious Made in Italy tag.

    Northern Italy is home to a Wuhan diaspora. It is important to be specific about this because among other things it explains why Italy was so badly hit while other places with lots of Chinese (SF, Toronto, Vancouver) were not. These places have few people from Wuhan.

    Wuhan is the center of the Chinese textile industry. Very close ties between Wuhan and Milan. Large movements of people and goods between the two regions.

    However a lot of effort has been put into obscuring this.

  101. Anonymous[185] • Disclaimer says:
    @dvorak

    This is also why despite its ethnic divisions Ukraine will never simply be divided in half. That country consists of a river and its drainage basin. The fact that everyone on one side of the river hates Russia and everybody on the other side loves Russia is less important than the fact that every major industry relies on the river and nobody on either side wants to risk losing access to it.

  102. anon[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Your article from the Beeb is 7 years old, that’s kind of old in gene science terms. Your conclusion literally makes no sense, by the way.

    Indians in the US are very reluctant to allow any kind of gene study. This is too bad, because a full GWAS of the Pima nation might tell us some useful things about tendencies to diabetes.

  103. epebble says:
    @Wilkey

    The paper talks about the possibility of increased propensity to belly fat (that in turn can cause diabetes, heart disease etc.) in those with Neanderthal gene sequences. There is nothing about asymmetric interbreeding patterns (Sapiens men/women vs. Neanderthal men/women). However, it is possible to hypothesize that more Sapiens men (than women) migrated north to Neanderthal lands and hence interbred with Neanderthal women rather than other way (i.e. Neanderthal men with Sapiens women). A pattern strangely reminiscent of even today – Black men pairing with White women rather than the other way.

    • Replies: @ANON
  104. @vinteuil

    Gee, Vinteuil, you almost had me rooting for the Great & The Good – I, too, long for a return to the days of elite air travel.

    But then I remembered that that G&G is not my G&G, and refrained.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
  105. Anon[194] • Disclaimer says:

    Everything literally makes no sense when you’re a mentally defective human being with less than a high school education.

  106. ANON[194] • Disclaimer says:
    @epebble

    Your scenario is impossible, because there is no Neanderthal mtDNA in modern humans, and X-chromosome DNA from Neanderthals in modern humans is very minimal. This completely rules out Neanderthal females as a source of Neanderthal DNA in modern humans.

    On the other hand, the consensus is that Neanderthal male + Sapiens female pairings were by far the most common:

    https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1007349

    Was there a sex bias in gene flow?

    Alternatively, reduced Neanderthal ancestry on the X chromosome is also consistent with models that use a lower initial admixture proportion for the X chromosome, reflecting a bias towards more frequent Neanderthal male and human female pairings—potentially as great as 3× more frequent than the complementary pairing [36]. A bias towards Neanderthal male and human female pairings could also help explain why investigations of Neanderthal and human mitochondrial DNA, which is inherited maternally, show no indication of Neanderthal–human admixture [19,48].

    It is unlikely that the more feminine, physically weaker, probably less intelligent species could be dominating Neanderthals on their home turf. Black males + white females is a rarity today and an historical oddity; for thousands of years it has been white males (meaning European and middle easterners) breeding African women, and this is reflected in the DNA of African Americans and East Africans, with a very heavy bias towards Caucasoid male and Negroid female lineages. Just like what happened in Europe and the middle east tens of thousands of years ago between Neanderthals and modern humans.

  107. vinteuil says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    I, too, long for a return to the days of elite air travel.

    I guess you must have a lot of money.

    I, on the other hand, have been disgustingly poor, all my life.

  108. Anon[194] • Disclaimer says:

    Neanderthals even had mtDNA from modern humans.

    Out of Africa = African mail order brides for Neanderthal men.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms16046

    Ancient DNA is revealing new insights into the genetic relationship between Pleistocene hominins and modern humans. Nuclear DNA indicated Neanderthals as a sister group of Denisovans after diverging from modern humans. However, the closer affinity of the Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) to modern humans than Denisovans has recently been suggested as the result of gene flow from an African source into Neanderthals before 100,000 years ago. Here we report the complete mtDNA of an archaic femur from the Hohlenstein–Stadel (HST) cave in southwestern Germany. HST carries the deepest divergent mtDNA lineage that splits from other Neanderthals ∼270,000 years ago, providing a lower boundary for the time of the putative mtDNA introgression event. We demonstrate that a complete Neanderthal mtDNA replacement is feasible over this time interval even with minimal hominin introgression. The highly divergent HST branch is indicative of greater mtDNA diversity during the Middle Pleistocene than in later periods.

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