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NYT: "Maternal Instinct Is a Myth That Men Created"
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Now that feminism, hoist by its own petard of social constructionism, is on the ropes and being pummeled by ruthlessly aggressive men in frocks wearing a simple chain of pearls, it’s easy to feel a little sympathy for feminists. But then you see an example of old school feminism in its purest form, the same argument you’ve heard a million times before … From the New York Times opinion section:

Maternal Instinct Is a Myth That Men Created

By Chelsea Conaboy

Ms. Conaboy is a journalist specializing in health and the author of the forthcoming book “Mother Brain: How Neuroscience Is Rewriting the Story of Parenthood,” from which this essay has been adapted.

Aug. 26, 2022

Around the time that Mimi Niles became a mother, an upstairs neighbor in her New York City apartment building had twins. When the two women ran into each other in the hallway or on the sidewalk, Ms. Niles would ask the neighbor how she was faring.

“Fabulous,” Ms. Niles remembered her saying. “I’m so happy.”

Ms. Niles was dumbfounded. She was not feeling fabulous in new motherhood. She was exhausted and anxious. She slept little and cried a lot. Even as she worked to bond with her daughter through co-sleeping and baby-wearing, she struggled to understand what the baby needed.

But Ms. Niles soon discovered that there was little room for that struggle within the prevailing narrative of motherhood, or even in her conversations with other parents.

All around her swirled near-rapturous descriptions of the joys of new motherhood. They all celebrated the same thing — the woman who is able to instantly intuit and satisfy her baby’s every need, and to do it all on her own.

Ms. Niles, who is now a midwife and researcher, wondered what was going on. Of course, she was aware of the “baby blues” and knew women who suffered from postpartum depression, but what she took issue with was something more fundamental, about how our culture approaches motherhood. Where did the idea that motherhood is hard-wired for women come from? Is there a man behind the curtain?

In a sense, there is a man behind the curtain. Many of them, actually.

Charles Darwin, etc.

In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.

But, women tend toward conformism — they just want to be like all the other women and all the other women to be like them — so they aren’t comfortable with this diversity among women.

The not very maternal ones who want to be leaders of women have a simple all-purpose explanation for why other women don’t feel like them: they’ve been GASLIGHTED by men. It’s the fault of men that you like babies. Women are UNITED, except when they are brainwashed by the Patriarchy. Instead, you should be like me, your natural leader.

That’s it. That’s feminism in a nutshell.

I can recall driving through Yosemite Valley in the 1960s when I was about seven. We see a huge number of cars pulled over on one side of the road. We follow the motorists into the woods, where about 100 people have encircled a cute baby bear cub all by his lonesome. My dad grabs me by the collar and drags me back to the car and we drive away.

My father didn’t know that mother bears’ maternal instinct was just a male conspiracy.

 
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  1. Hire a random teenaged girl to do some babysitting. Then a teenaged boy. Let me know if you notice any differences.

    Most animals even show maternal instincts.

    • Agree: mc23
    • Replies: @mc23
    @Roger

    I've taken my wife to an infertility support group. No man goes to an infertility support group on their own initiative. The group contained women who always wanted children, women who never wanted children and women who were undecided. Now after years of trying and treatments they sought the company of the similarly afflicted.
    In the end most women want children just not too many, one or two will do. There is an instinct to have children and it is much more acute among women, otherwise why?

    And the maternal instinct to care is stronger in women- great example-


    Hire a random teenaged girl to do some babysitting. Then a teenaged boy. Let me know if you notice any differences.

     

    Childless couples can be quite happy. I know a couple in their 50’s quite happy, lots of money, lots of friends. Myself and another prolific co-worker have only one question- “What do you talk to your wife about?”
  2. “She slept little and cried a lot. Even as she worked to bond with her daughter through co-sleeping and baby-wearing, she struggled to understand what the baby needed.”

    So it appears pathological narcissism may in fact impede maternal instincts.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    @Mike Tre

    Who would hire this woman as a midwife? What expectant parents would want her to play any part in the delivery of their child?

  3. This essay kind of reminds me of the old late night talk show interviews of movie stars who’d recently had children. “What’s it like being a new parent?” the host would ask his typically idiotic celebrity guest, who would answer at length as if the everyday people in the audience watching the interview had no idea what it was like to be a parent. The world probably revolves around liberal pundits even more than it does movie stars, so until an elite leftist/feminist interprets parenthood (and invents some great new “insight” about it that they can sell to the world through a book, etc.) parenthood hasn’t truly been experienced. All I can say is a feel sorry for any kid who has a mom like that.

    • Replies: @animalogic
    @J1234

    "All I can say is a feel sorry for any kid who has a mom like that."
    Hopefully they have a loving nanny.
    Yes, it's not the answer but it's better than nothing.

  4. In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.

    But, women tend toward conformism — they just want to be like all the other women and all the other women to be like them — so they aren’t comfortable with this diversity among women.

    It seems like Kristen Stewart related a lot to this sketch they put her in.

    One of the things you simply can’t fake is the noise a group of young women will make upon seeing a particularly cute baby or animal.

    Men find babies and animals cute too but obviously it’s very different.

    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
    @Altai


    One of the things you simply can’t fake is the noise a group of young women will make upon seeing a particularly cute baby or animal.

    Men find babies and animals cute too but obviously it’s very different.
     
    I'm a guy who doesn't find human babies cute, but puppies & kittens? I do talk with them.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @AnonAnon

    , @Joe8056
    @Altai

    I worked in office environments for many years. One thing that you'll notice is that if someone brings their new baby in they will be surrounded by a large group of women who are sincerely excited about it. You can claim it's conditioning but it's not. It's biological and anyone who sees it a few times knows it.

    , @Peter Akuleyev
    @Altai

    One of the things you simply can’t fake is the noise a group of young women will make upon seeing a particularly cute baby or animal.

    This is also most likely just Steve‘s conformity principle at work. Do young women from the Amazon rainforest make similar noises? Somehow I doubt it.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @S. Anonyia

    , @Polistra
    @Altai

    Some women actually do hate babies, and children. I've known a few
    like that. The sad part is that many of them still get pregnant and have babies and children they won't like. It's one reason I grudgingly support abortion rights. Because unwanted children grow up to be criminals and sociopaths.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

  5. Are women evolved to be mothers? Obviously. But that doesn’t mean they are evolved to be happy mothers. Evolution optimizes for reproductive success, not happiness. In many scenarios past and present, it is surely optimal for mothers to be worried, restless, “stressed out”, etc.

    • Agree: Thea
    • Replies: @Thea
    @Anonymous

    Maternal neuroticism saves many a life.


    The view of happiest as a valid life purpose or even the intent of nature originates from a strange display of wealth and comfort allowed by modern life. Leisure class indeed.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Recently Based
    @Anonymous

    Exactly, and this doesn't just apply to motherhood.

    Human females are much higher than males in average trait neuroticism. This is almost certainly an evolutionary adaptation to be being, literally, the weaker sex.

  6. Stay safe: Mum’s the word.

    • LOL: Paul Jolliffe
  7. It would be quite something if humans were the only mammals where the females of the species didn’t instinctively feel maternal instinct.

    • Agree: Barnard
    • Replies: @Polistra
    @ScarletNumber

    A simple sentence like yours would be effectively a grenade launched into this essay, but of course they'd never see it. So the science is settled, which is what people say who don't know anything about science.

    , @Henry's Cat
    @ScarletNumber

    I wonder if zoologists have adopted the language of toxic masculinity.

    , @AndrewR
    @ScarletNumber

    Biology is a white patriarchal supremacist construct.

    , @Patrick McNally
    @ScarletNumber

    Maternal instinct in the proper sense only arises after a pregnancy. A female cat who is in heat will feel a mating instinct towards any nearby male cats. But she has no conception of motherhood when doing this. It's only after the kittens have popped out that she suddenly has a maternal instinct to care for them. Human culture is based off a capacity for memory. That means that children grow up knowing that it is possible for themselves to one day have children of their own. A culture can even nurture within them the desire to one day have their own children. But this is not really an instinct. This is more of an anticipation by our intelligence that one day sexual instincts may compel us to do something which results in a pregnancy, and so it may be better to develop an appreciation of that in advance.

    , @Bill Jones
    @ScarletNumber


    It would be quite something if humans were the only mammals where the females of the species didn’t instinctively feel maternal instinct.
     
    There's a word for mammals with no maternal instinct: Extinct.

    That's the choice: Instinct or Extinct.

    Replies: @HallParvey, @Wade Hampton, @CharleszMartel

  8. “In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.“

    That’s not truth, it’s your version of it. It would be nice for you to supply even a rudimentary form of support for your contention, or even modestly attempt to critically address the findings from the article.

    Maybe you can take time from feeding your dog to address the findings here.

    https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/maternal-instinct#instinct-vs-drive

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Corvinus

    Steve: Women are on a probability distribution of maternal instinct.

    (Truly something so true and obvious--and non-oppressively open--you'd think no one could object. But ... )

    CNN Healthline Corny: Not so fast! I have some tedious blank slate pudding--mostly verbalist word quibbling--for you.

    Replies: @Technite78

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus



    “In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.“
     
    That’s not truth, it’s your version of it.
     
    Corvi -- How can you bitch about Steve's comment? It's basically just an inane truism (which might be a valid criticism of it). The only way he could be wrong is if all women are identical.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Mr. Anon, @Mark G.

    , @Alden
    @Corvinus

    Hey you ugly old crow have you ever ever had an original opinion about anything? No one ever clicks on your links.

    Steve Did men create the myth of women’s maternal instinct?

    Corvinus Well, my birthing parent dumped me at the gates of an all boy orphanage run by all men when I was 8 hours old. And I’ve never even spoken to a woman or girl. So I’ll type no inborn natural maternal instinct women into google. And viola!!!!! Here’s my clip and paste answer.

    , @AndrewR
    @Corvinus

    Do you have any friends?

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @William Badwhite
    @Corvinus


    Maybe you can take time from feeding your dog to address the findings here.
     
    Your need for attention is cringe-worthy.

    http://www.chihuahuawardrobe.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/chihuahua-barking-loud-300x200.jpg
    , @Mandrill with a hand drill
    @Corvinus

    The first thing to address is the social forces which deliberately destroy maternal instinct. This is done by denying and severing the physical bond. In late 90s America, a woman had her baby stolen from her by CPS because she asked the internet if it was normal to feel arousal while breastfeeding. It took a year of volunteer legal effort and expert testimony to secure the return of the baby.

    Due to fear of child sexual abuse, all matters relating to arousal and children is forbidden, and so the physical basis of the maternal bond is forbidden. Add in stressors which produce depression and we have disaster. Children are meant to breastfeed until 4-5 years old. It is an indispensable tool in comforting stressed children. Same as all primates, and really all creatures which have an external development phase.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  9. Anon[177] • Disclaimer says:

    Two things are true at the same time: (1) many women have a strong maternal instinct; and (2) taking care of babies is exhausting. #2 doesn’t disprove #1.

    Of course, some women aren’t meant to be mothers. We call those women lesbians. Homosexuality is nature’s way of making sure some genes don’t get passed on.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Anon

    Nature doesn’t have goals; genes that favor reproduction get passed on. It’s not clear at all homosexuality has any ‘function’ in getting rid of other deleterious genes. Exactly why such a thing should recur is unclear, given the obvious low reproductive fitness. I have heard suggestions that it’s the other sex’s attraction genes getting turned on by mistake, or that it may serve some kind of bonding function to increase the number of same sex allies-the last from Diana Fleischman, Geoffrey Miller’s wife. Makes as much sense as anything else I’ve heard.

    But who, nowadays, would dare to try and figure it out?

    Replies: @Prester John

  10. NYT: “Maternal Instinct Is a Myth That Men Created”

    1973 is calling and wants its bullshit back.

    I’m not kind of social historian. Much less of feminist bullshit.

    But my recollection is by the late 60s, Jewish 2nd wave “oppression” feminism had a strong element of “women are just like men” right out of the Jewish anti-science blank slate tradition. The differences were all “socially constructed” by the evil (gentile) patriarchy. Women would be just as strong as men if they were allowed to do sports and run around and weren’t starved at the dinner table by their fathers …. or something. (Feminism has never had to be consistent or even make sense.) You really did see stuff–routinely–that was that jaw droppingly stupid.

    But then … it turned out women really were not interested in being coal miners or auto mechanices or carpenters or electricians or technicians or engineers … really doing any of men’s traditional productive labor at all. What women wanted was a good paycheck for something inside, comfortable, safe where they could talk to each other. Plus lots of women actual like having babies. And want men to pay for it–one way or another.

    So the pendulum swung over to “women are wonderful” and unique and “better than men” and the political demand was essentially that women deserved men to give them \$\$\$–whether they did anything for men at all. If something men did had high status–say sports or suddenly tech–then women deserved their “fair share” of that. But mainly women deserved \$\$\$ from men, just because they were women and “women are wonderful!”

    But now … apparently with minoritarianism lifting up all the mentally ill LBGQWERTY defectives as sacred … we’re back to good old Jewish bio-denial–“gender” is socially constructed, “just a difference in plumbing”–again.

    Stupid.

    Honestly I just want out. Out of the madhouse. Millions of normal men and women know like being men and women. They know they are different–and like it! Appreciate their complementary–wonderfully complementary!–differences. And want to get together, do what comes naturally and raise families together.

    • Agree: Daniel H, Abe, Escher
    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
    @AnotherDad


    But my recollection is by the late 60s, Jewish 2nd wave “oppression” feminism had a strong element of “women are just like men” right out of the Jewish anti-science blank slate tradition. The differences were all “socially constructed” by the evil (gentile) patriarchy.
     
    Ha ha, not at all to the last sentence except in maybe what they said or implied. Per Kevin MacDonald, patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US. The first wave was suffragettes, who succeeded in their Official goal at the very beginning of the 1920s, the decade when Team Boas captured that part of the social sciences with their blank slate fraud.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @AnotherDad

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @AnotherDad

    If I had to mansplain "feminism," I'd define it as getting the most for women by toggling back and forth between "women are the same" and "women are special." It only gets complicated because women disagree over what they want and which approach works best for getting it.

    Replies: @njguy73, @Thomm

    , @anonymous
    @AnotherDad

    Feminism has never had to be consistent or even make sense.

    That statement is indeed true.

    What I'm particularly enjoying though is that now that men are participating in women's sports and beating them handily, they are whining about it. Isn't that just a natural progression of the NOW movement or is it tit for tat (pun intended)?

  11. I want to thank the Almighty, who gave us such a wonderful being to help us perpetuate humanity.

    And for giving us yeast that allows us men to ferment, brew, and distill ways to deal with those beings.

  12. Women love their kids, sure…if they are attractive and as long as dad is Mr.Chad Jock, square-jawed 6’3 hedge fund guy or real state developer making 8 figures a year. If dad is Mr.Dweeb, who is honest and decent but is 5’6 and ugly and makes 5 figures tops a year working as an I.T profesional, or Joe Blow, the dumb loser plummer making minimum wage on a good day, then watch the love turn into seething rage towards the kids and not-too-veiled nagging and contempt for the dad.

    Plenty of children are not only neglected, but abused by their mothers. Women take out the anger that they feel over not having gotten the Prince Charming that they were promised to by Disney films when they were teens on the unatractive children that they had with the inferior men they had to “settle” for before their eggs rotted.

    You can tell what a woman thinks about her husband by how she treats her kids. If she has contempt for him, she will abuse the kids for two reasons. First to see if she can infuriate him and bring the “alpha” in him. It’s a last-ditch effort to not admit that she bred with a loser with loser genes. Secondly, it’s her way to show her anger towards his inferior genes, as the kids are the manifestation of those genes. This is especially true for sons, as she sees the son as a “mini-me” version of dad to be tortured and abused. When it comes to her daughters, she will merely neglect and ignore them. But when it comes to the son, she will take out all her anger on the boy. When a woman sees her man as Mr.Fantastic and she thinks she gor “The One”, she will treat her son like a Princeling, will spoil and pamper him silly, the classic “momma’s adorable little prince”. But when she sees dad not as a King but as a vassal, she will treat her son likewise not as a prince but as a vassal. Women are *ruthless* in their evaluation and treatment of men, not sparing even their own male children if they think that they are genetically iuferior. Men don’t really understand how awfully bad it is.

    As for this story, the characters are from NYC. As someone that actually lived in NYC for 6 years and knows the liberal upper-middle class very well, I can tell you that upper-middle class liberal women, contrary to what you might think, are actually fantastic mothers, extremely doting and dedicated to their kids. They just don’t have many, and when they do it’s often at an older age. They will usually have just one pup when they are already like 35 years old, and fuss and dote on them like crazy. They are not very fertile people. That is, upper middle-class liberal professionals.

    • Replies: @usNthem
    @Zero Philosopher

    While your other points are probably valid, the snark towards Joe Blow the dumb loser “plummer” making minimum wage on a good day is a complete airball. Who the hell are you going to call when the sewer backs up? I guarantee you it won’t be a minimum wage plumber.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Zero Philosopher

    I don't think your observations hold as a general rule, but they likely do in some cases. In particular it would explain the still rare but increasing phenomenon of women who force gender transitions on their sons. It's the ultimate FU to their despised hubby or ex-hubby: I hate you so much I'm going to turn your son into a girl.

    Replies: @Zero Philosopher

  13. “Men find babies and animals cute too but obviously it’s very different.”

    “God makes ‘em cute so you won’t kill ‘em.”

    • Replies: @Dave from Oz
    @mmack


    “God makes ‘em cute so you won’t kill ‘em.”
     
    Veal.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    , @Ancient Briton
    @mmack

    Baby seals!

    Replies: @mmack

    , @Rob
    @mmack

    This is actually probably true both ways. Adults are selected on thinking kids are cute enough to not kill (their own) kids, but parents also have the choice of ditching the kid entirely. This is bad for the parent (the kid is 0.5 genetically them) under lots of circumstances, but beneficial under others. Being abandoned is much worse for the kid (he is 100% genetically himself and only .5 w each parent)

    So, evolution has likely crafted kids faces to be cute by disproportionately culling un-cute kids.

    Replies: @CharleszMartel

  14. Chelsea Conaboy writes other articles about women’s superiority at nurturing, I bet.

  15. In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.

    But, women tend toward conformism — they just want to be like all the other women and all the other women to be like them — so they aren’t comfortable with this diversity among women.

    The not very maternal ones who want to be leaders of women have a simple all-purpose explanation for why other women don’t feel like them: they’ve been GASLIGHTED by men. It’s the fault of men that you like babies. Women are UNITED, except when they are brainwashed by the Patriarchy. Instead, you should be like me, your natural leader.

    That’s it. That’s feminism in a nutshell.

    Steve, this is really quite good.

    One thing a lot of people do not seem to understand–or at least give any thought to–is that we all inherit a lot of traits that were/are useful–at various times/places–for being a man and for being a woman. The specifically male adaptive traits were selected for primarily in your male ancestors (why they are your ancestors). And likewise the specifically female adaptive traits in your female ancestors.

    The XY/XX switching/non-switching and associated hormones wires you up as best it can for success. You get very few complete failures like the homosexuals. But we all have traits selected for success in women and in men.

    In the before time the reigning ideology was socially positive. And the leaders and “role models” were successful people. The women who were high status and “role models” that other women heard from and followed were women who themselves were successful at being wives and mothers for successful men.

    What feminism has wrought is that now women with fewer female adaptive genes/traits, who suck at being women–who are maladaptive–find cultural (academic, media) and government positions and lecture other women on how to be crappy women as well.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    @AnotherDad

    "Steve, this is really quite good."

    Agree.

    , @AndrewR
    @AnotherDad

    Abuelo, why do you assume homosexuals are "complete failures"?

    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @AnotherDad

    "What feminism has wrought is that now women with fewer female adaptive genes/traits, who suck at being women–who are maladaptive–find cultural (academic, media) and government positions and lecture other women on how to be crappy women as well."

    Well, great --- as long as it's only the shiksas who buy this crap, and it leads to inevitable goy extinction right on schedule...

    The rest of you schvartze ladies, please feel free to have and to nurture many many children.

    , @Esso
    @AnotherDad


    The XY/XX switching/non-switching and associated hormones wires you up as best it can for success. You get very few complete failures like the homosexuals. But we all have traits selected for success in women and in men.
     
    A highly explanatory observation in this context is that the female sexual characteristics seem to be the default in a sense, and the male ones a perturbation on that default. It's a lot easier to lose that add-on functionality by some developmental disorder than to accidentally gain it, therefore the greater share of homo/trans males and XYs with female genitalia.
    , @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    @AnotherDad

    "What feminism has wrought is that now women with fewer female adaptive genes/traits, who suck at being women–who are maladaptive–find cultural (academic, media) and government positions and lecture other women on how to be crappy women as well."

    Edward Dutton's spiteful mutants?

  16. No maternal instinct: Phew! Next time I go hiking in the mountains I don’t have to avoid Mama Bear and Mrs Tiger, guarding their lilluns.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Badger Down

    I can recall driving through Yosemite Valley in the 1960s when I was about seven. We see a huge number of cars pulled over on one side of the road. We follow the motorists into the woods, where about 100 people have encircled a cute baby bear cub all by his lonesome. My dad grabs me by the collar and drags me back to the car and we drive away. My father didn't know that mother bears' maternal instinct was a male conspiracy.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Badger Down

  17. Chelsea Conaboy should get out of the office and take an hour-long walk through Central Park. The non-human denizens of the park display the “maternal instinct” every day of the week.

  18. @Corvinus
    “In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.“

    That’s not truth, it’s your version of it. It would be nice for you to supply even a rudimentary form of support for your contention, or even modestly attempt to critically address the findings from the article.

    Maybe you can take time from feeding your dog to address the findings here.

    https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/maternal-instinct#instinct-vs-drive

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Hypnotoad666, @Alden, @AndrewR, @William Badwhite, @Mandrill with a hand drill

    Steve: Women are on a probability distribution of maternal instinct.

    (Truly something so true and obvious–and non-oppressively open–you’d think no one could object. But … )

    CNN Healthline Corny: Not so fast! I have some tedious blank slate pudding–mostly verbalist word quibbling–for you.

    • Replies: @Technite78
    @AnotherDad

    LOL.

    Corny has to be a dead ringer for a Soyjack.

  19. For those interested, Abigail Tucker -Ross Douthat’s wife- has a book out called ‘Mom Genes: Inside the New Science of Our Ancient Maternal Instinct’. She talks about it here: https://www.c-span.org/video/?513174-1/mom-genes

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    @Poirot

    Thousands of years of the accumulated wisdom of the ages tossed out because they were inconvenient to a long line of liberal reformers are now confirmed by honest scientists. Well, can't have honest science then.

    , @Art Deco
    @Poirot

    Zero Philosopher assures me that Abigail Tucker despises, abuses, and neglects Ross Douthat and the children he sired.

  20. >her name is literally con a boy
    You just can’t. You just can’t even. Right there. Whillikers.

  21. @Altai

    In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.

    But, women tend toward conformism — they just want to be like all the other women and all the other women to be like them — so they aren’t comfortable with this diversity among women.

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEsgp3H7CU

    It seems like Kristen Stewart related a lot to this sketch they put her in.

    One of the things you simply can't fake is the noise a group of young women will make upon seeing a particularly cute baby or animal.

    Men find babies and animals cute too but obviously it's very different.

    Replies: @Pat Kittle, @Joe8056, @Peter Akuleyev, @Polistra

    One of the things you simply can’t fake is the noise a group of young women will make upon seeing a particularly cute baby or animal.

    Men find babies and animals cute too but obviously it’s very different.

    I’m a guy who doesn’t find human babies cute, but puppies & kittens? I do talk with them.

    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Pat Kittle

    It was much different after I had my own.

    Years back I had a girlfriend with kids already and she wanted more. I told her truthfully at the time, "I don't think babies are cute but I think 4 or 5 year-olds are." (She had one who WAS.) Man, that really pissed her off, and I had no idea why .. still don't, exactly...

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    , @AnonAnon
    @Pat Kittle

    Though I did like playing with baby dolls as a girl I never really liked other people’s children. I still don’t. It’s much different when you have your own, though. It was like Christmas was every day when I had my first - I couldn’t wait to see him in his crib in the mornings and I felt that way for a solid year. Your own child is fascinating when they are little and the bonus is you get to mold them the way you want. It’s quite heady.

    As for maternal instinct, I remember being wheeled out of the hospital with my first in my arms when a pair of older ladies in the lobby tried to get closer to look at him, I practically growled at them. I did not want strangers close to him. Similar thing happened when I was walking in my neighborhood with him in a stroller and a stranger approached me. It was definitely hormones and didn’t happen with my other two.

  22. One thing that probably makes a big difference in how maternal a mother can feel that wasn’t addressed openly in this opinion piece but was sort of hinted at: the involvement and presence of the father. It doesn’t surprise me that single mothers or primary breadwinner mothers wouldn’t have much time or energy to feel particularly maternal or to enjoy motherhood. Feminism has long been known as an ideology that feeds on its own failures: its contribution to female unhappiness produces ever more unhappy women to recruit as feminists. It’s a pretty direct route from undermining or eliminating the role of fathers and promoting single motherhood to then complaining that mothers don’t feel very maternal.

    • Replies: @AKAHorace
    @Thomas


    One thing that probably makes a big difference in how maternal a mother can feel that wasn’t addressed openly in this opinion piece but was sort of hinted at: the involvement and presence of the father.
     
    It might be easier to feel maternal if you had some help and were not struggling for your own survival ?

    Guessing as a man, would welcome comments from any women who are on this thread.
    , @Keypusher
    @Thomas

    My mother got dumped with four young children post-sexual liberation but pre-feminism. It did not affect her love for us at all, though it did make her life very hard.

  23. Feminism is anti-female. Feminism mocks and attacks feminine women for their femininity. Being feminine is the source of women’s greatest power, their ability to attract a male provider and a father for their children.

    Feminism which is pro-female would praise motherhood and honor feminine women for achieving success in feminine pursuits like knitting, crocheting, cooking, keeping a clean home and knowing how to wear makeup and do their hair, staying attractive for their spouse etc….

    Feminists mock and deride feminine pursuits and goals such as becoming a housewife, motherhood, and participating in beauty pageants…Instead Feminists praise masculine women for doing masculine activities and achieving success in masculine careers and pursuits. By praising masculine women feminists are the real sexists, as they consider only masculine activities to be of value. If Feminists were trying to improve the lives of females they would not be promoting masculine activities for women but would be promoting the values of feminine pursuits and praising the most feminine females for their femininity instead of praising masculine females for their manly achievements…

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @SFG
    @Travis

    There’s actually internal debate about that among feminists, but the ones who want women to work more always win.

    , @Art Deco
    @Travis

    Disagree. As far as I can see, women of accomplishment adhere only to a qualified version of feminism and soi-disant feminists admire not women of accomplishment but women who are difficult and obnoxious. Clara Barton, Estée Lauder, Clare Boothe Luce, Mildred McAfree, Barbara McClintock, and Dorothy Kilgallan were not feminist icons. Sylvia Plath was.

  24. Mammals care for their young and protect them.

    Contradict this and Chelsea Conaboy gets an F in evolutionary biology. And her family goes extinct too.

  25. Sounds like just the sort of person you shouldn’t have anywhere near your babies. Who hires her as a ‘midwife’ anyway?

    • Agree: kaganovitch
  26. @AnotherDad

    NYT: "Maternal Instinct Is a Myth That Men Created"
     
    1973 is calling and wants its bullshit back.

    I'm not kind of social historian. Much less of feminist bullshit.

    But my recollection is by the late 60s, Jewish 2nd wave "oppression" feminism had a strong element of "women are just like men" right out of the Jewish anti-science blank slate tradition. The differences were all "socially constructed" by the evil (gentile) patriarchy. Women would be just as strong as men if they were allowed to do sports and run around and weren't starved at the dinner table by their fathers .... or something. (Feminism has never had to be consistent or even make sense.) You really did see stuff--routinely--that was that jaw droppingly stupid.

    But then ... it turned out women really were not interested in being coal miners or auto mechanices or carpenters or electricians or technicians or engineers ... really doing any of men's traditional productive labor at all. What women wanted was a good paycheck for something inside, comfortable, safe where they could talk to each other. Plus lots of women actual like having babies. And want men to pay for it--one way or another.

    So the pendulum swung over to "women are wonderful" and unique and "better than men" and the political demand was essentially that women deserved men to give them $$$--whether they did anything for men at all. If something men did had high status--say sports or suddenly tech--then women deserved their "fair share" of that. But mainly women deserved $$$ from men, just because they were women and "women are wonderful!"

    But now ... apparently with minoritarianism lifting up all the mentally ill LBGQWERTY defectives as sacred ... we're back to good old Jewish bio-denial--"gender" is socially constructed, "just a difference in plumbing"--again.


    Stupid.

    Honestly I just want out. Out of the madhouse. Millions of normal men and women know like being men and women. They know they are different--and like it! Appreciate their complementary--wonderfully complementary!--differences. And want to get together, do what comes naturally and raise families together.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Hypnotoad666, @anonymous

    But my recollection is by the late 60s, Jewish 2nd wave “oppression” feminism had a strong element of “women are just like men” right out of the Jewish anti-science blank slate tradition. The differences were all “socially constructed” by the evil (gentile) patriarchy.

    Ha ha, not at all to the last sentence except in maybe what they said or implied. Per Kevin MacDonald, patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US. The first wave was suffragettes, who succeeded in their Official goal at the very beginning of the 1920s, the decade when Team Boas captured that part of the social sciences with their blank slate fraud.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @That Would Be Telling

    https://www.peakstupidity.com/images/post_2290A.jpg

    Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin, @LP5

    , @AnotherDad
    @That Would Be Telling


    Ha ha, not at all to the last sentence except in maybe what they said or implied. Per Kevin MacDonald, patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US. The first wave was suffragettes, who succeeded in their Official goal at the very beginning of the 1920s, the decade when Team Boas captured that part of the social sciences with their blank slate fraud.
     
    TWBT, don't really get your thrust here?

    My simplified take is 1st wave was Protestant Church lady feminism. Women should be educated, vote, have 2.5 well-scrubbed, well-educated, well-behaved kids. Men should be sober, not beat their wives or kids, listen to their wives. (I.e. none of that drunken Irish family nonsense.) Like most of early 20th century progressivism its thrust was "everyone should behave/live like a middle class WASP".

    2nd wave was Jewish women minoritarianizing feminism--jamming/recruiting women into their anti-white-gentile oppression pyramid. Oppressed/virtuous women. Oppressive/evil (white gentile) men. (Ironic as NW-Euro Christian society was pretty much the most open, least sexist and oppressive in the world. Less "sexist" and "oppressive" than was Jewish society with its Semitic roots.)

    The "men are oppressing us!" is mostly what we got. But I remember a whole lot of bio-denial--"men and women are the same, just different plumbing"--right on up to the really crazy stuff, which was basically cribbed from Stephen J. Gould style Jewish racial bio-denial, just the obvious nuttiness amped up by applying to men and women and their obvious sexual dimorphism.

    ~~

    I haven't read any Kevin McDonald though I know he's got a Jewish critique--I gather from the title "Culture of Critique" of their quibbling critique of gentiles to further glomming onto gentile society.

    I'm not clear how "patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US"? The only thing I can think of is that Jewish women--like black women--might have been told early on that their feminist concerns took a back seat to solidarity in the ethnic struggle against the goyim. Still "The Feminine Mystique" published in 1963. That's giving women only a decade to become dissatisfied with the new suburban post-War prosperity, with all its labor saving devices and significantly reduced household workload.

    I actually think minoritarianizing women--energizing normal dissatisfactions of life (not every marriage is happy, not everyone makes "enough" money, not every family gels, not everyone is fulfilled) into a tool to pry white women away from white men--was the most important win for the minoritarian cause. Balkanization is bad for a society. So balkanizing your enemy ... right in their own home, family was a huge win.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @That Would Be Telling, @Achmed E. Newman, @BB753

  27. @Altai

    In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.

    But, women tend toward conformism — they just want to be like all the other women and all the other women to be like them — so they aren’t comfortable with this diversity among women.

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEsgp3H7CU

    It seems like Kristen Stewart related a lot to this sketch they put her in.

    One of the things you simply can't fake is the noise a group of young women will make upon seeing a particularly cute baby or animal.

    Men find babies and animals cute too but obviously it's very different.

    Replies: @Pat Kittle, @Joe8056, @Peter Akuleyev, @Polistra

    I worked in office environments for many years. One thing that you’ll notice is that if someone brings their new baby in they will be surrounded by a large group of women who are sincerely excited about it. You can claim it’s conditioning but it’s not. It’s biological and anyone who sees it a few times knows it.

  28. https://genius.com/Crazy-ex-girlfriend-cast-women-gotta-stick-together-lyrics

    Women gotta stick together
    And tell each other the truth—
    The truth is you’re all fat sluts
    And that’s called sisterhood

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Calvin Hobbes

    Of all the people who died of covid, songwriter Adam Schlesinger is the one I miss the most.

  29. Ms. Conaboy is a journalist

    It’s almost always the freaking “journalists” who write this kind of nonsense. They just latch onto any “narratives” that tend to jive with their prior sentiments with no concern at all for the scientific principles (e.g. replication). Now their modus operandi has infected academia itself.

    All is no longer vanity, it’s all just “feelz” now.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Twinkie

    Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.
    Those who can't teach, become journalists.

  30. @Corvinus
    “In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.“

    That’s not truth, it’s your version of it. It would be nice for you to supply even a rudimentary form of support for your contention, or even modestly attempt to critically address the findings from the article.

    Maybe you can take time from feeding your dog to address the findings here.

    https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/maternal-instinct#instinct-vs-drive

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Hypnotoad666, @Alden, @AndrewR, @William Badwhite, @Mandrill with a hand drill

    “In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.“

    That’s not truth, it’s your version of it.

    Corvi — How can you bitch about Steve’s comment? It’s basically just an inane truism (which might be a valid criticism of it). The only way he could be wrong is if all women are identical.

    • Agree: Technite78, AKAHorace
    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Hypnotoad666

    "Corvi — How can you bitch about Steve’s comment?"

    50 cents per comment is 50 cents per comment.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Hypnotoad666


    Corvi — How can you bitch about Steve’s comment? It’s basically just an inane truism (which might be a valid criticism of it). The only way he could be wrong is if all women are identical.
     
    Corvinus can bitch about it because he is a whiny little bitch. An especially stupid one too, as is painfully obvious.
    , @Mark G.
    @Hypnotoad666

    If I were to say here in Steve's comment section that you can use water to put out fires, Corvinus would probably demand that I produce the scientific studies proving that.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  31. That’s feminism in a nutshell.

    Feminism in a nutshell, according to Jennifer Roback Morse: “Men and women are exactly alike, except women are better.”

    Tommy Roe can boast that the Beatles once opened for him, and “Dr J” likewise that Thomas Sowell wrote a blurb for her.

  32. It’s really weird in that throughout the animal kingdom, mothers mostly and obsessively care for their young – there are obviously exceptions, but among mammals, not so much. I guess “maternal instinct” is just another one of those patriarchal White supremacist ideologies made up to keep the human babes barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.

  33. @AnotherDad

    NYT: "Maternal Instinct Is a Myth That Men Created"
     
    1973 is calling and wants its bullshit back.

    I'm not kind of social historian. Much less of feminist bullshit.

    But my recollection is by the late 60s, Jewish 2nd wave "oppression" feminism had a strong element of "women are just like men" right out of the Jewish anti-science blank slate tradition. The differences were all "socially constructed" by the evil (gentile) patriarchy. Women would be just as strong as men if they were allowed to do sports and run around and weren't starved at the dinner table by their fathers .... or something. (Feminism has never had to be consistent or even make sense.) You really did see stuff--routinely--that was that jaw droppingly stupid.

    But then ... it turned out women really were not interested in being coal miners or auto mechanices or carpenters or electricians or technicians or engineers ... really doing any of men's traditional productive labor at all. What women wanted was a good paycheck for something inside, comfortable, safe where they could talk to each other. Plus lots of women actual like having babies. And want men to pay for it--one way or another.

    So the pendulum swung over to "women are wonderful" and unique and "better than men" and the political demand was essentially that women deserved men to give them $$$--whether they did anything for men at all. If something men did had high status--say sports or suddenly tech--then women deserved their "fair share" of that. But mainly women deserved $$$ from men, just because they were women and "women are wonderful!"

    But now ... apparently with minoritarianism lifting up all the mentally ill LBGQWERTY defectives as sacred ... we're back to good old Jewish bio-denial--"gender" is socially constructed, "just a difference in plumbing"--again.


    Stupid.

    Honestly I just want out. Out of the madhouse. Millions of normal men and women know like being men and women. They know they are different--and like it! Appreciate their complementary--wonderfully complementary!--differences. And want to get together, do what comes naturally and raise families together.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Hypnotoad666, @anonymous

    If I had to mansplain “feminism,” I’d define it as getting the most for women by toggling back and forth between “women are the same” and “women are special.” It only gets complicated because women disagree over what they want and which approach works best for getting it.

    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @njguy73
    @Hypnotoad666

    Men and women are very similar, especially women.

    , @Thomm
    @Hypnotoad666


    It only gets complicated because women disagree over what they want and which approach works best for getting it.
     
    Which, incidentally, is why 'conservative' women are just opposed to true equality for women as leftist feminist. They want the same ability to endlessly change the rules to advantage them, even if they have to contradict themselves in the space of five minutes. They want the optics of certain traditions, but do not want a single family-destroying law repealed. Not one.

    Most cuckservative GOP men think that women who vote Republican are against feminism for that reason alone. That is also why White Trashionalist men think the 1% of women who are in their community are somehow 'against feminism'.

    That is why, for example, Rosie has both radical feminist and White Trashionalist views, with no apparent contradiction between the two. Ultimately, the two ideologies are the same, but that is another topic.

  34. @AnotherDad
    @Corvinus

    Steve: Women are on a probability distribution of maternal instinct.

    (Truly something so true and obvious--and non-oppressively open--you'd think no one could object. But ... )

    CNN Healthline Corny: Not so fast! I have some tedious blank slate pudding--mostly verbalist word quibbling--for you.

    Replies: @Technite78

    LOL.

    Corny has to be a dead ringer for a Soyjack.

  35. @Altai

    In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.

    But, women tend toward conformism — they just want to be like all the other women and all the other women to be like them — so they aren’t comfortable with this diversity among women.

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEsgp3H7CU

    It seems like Kristen Stewart related a lot to this sketch they put her in.

    One of the things you simply can't fake is the noise a group of young women will make upon seeing a particularly cute baby or animal.

    Men find babies and animals cute too but obviously it's very different.

    Replies: @Pat Kittle, @Joe8056, @Peter Akuleyev, @Polistra

    One of the things you simply can’t fake is the noise a group of young women will make upon seeing a particularly cute baby or animal.

    This is also most likely just Steve‘s conformity principle at work. Do young women from the Amazon rainforest make similar noises? Somehow I doubt it.

    • Agree: S. Anonyia
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Peter Akuleyev


    Do young women from the Amazon rainforest make similar noises? Somehow I doubt it.
     
    The cute animals in their neighborhood are deadly. Even Australia refused to allow an episode of Peppa Pig for being too friendly to arachnids.

    https://youtu.be/2aKqBrtlWLY

    , @S. Anonyia
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Older American women from more hardscrabble backgrounds don’t even make those noises. At my sister’s first baby shower my grandmother (in her 80s, raised on a farm) chided her and her friends for “baby talking” as she opened gifts, haha.

  36. “Maternal Instinct Is a Myth That Men Created”

    Conaboy’s NYT op-ed piece heavily criticized online praise of “khazar milkers”. Surprised it got published!

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    "Conaboy’s NYT op-ed piece heavily criticized online praise of “khazar milkers”"

    Can you quote it? Don't want to sign into NYT.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

  37. @Hypnotoad666
    @AnotherDad

    If I had to mansplain "feminism," I'd define it as getting the most for women by toggling back and forth between "women are the same" and "women are special." It only gets complicated because women disagree over what they want and which approach works best for getting it.

    Replies: @njguy73, @Thomm

    Men and women are very similar, especially women.

    • Thanks: Polistra
  38. The not very maternal ones who want to be leaders of women

    Most feminist thought leaders have been Jewish lesbians, not low-maternal-instinct heterosexuals.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Anon

    My dad said the feminist movement was split between angry straight women and lesbians (this being back in the 80s he would have meant the second wave of the 70s). Hm, Mom was Jewish, maybe that’s why he left that last part out. (She wasn’t a feminist though. They’re still married.)

    Quite a few of the big names there were, in fact, heterosexual and Jewish-I am thinking of Gloria Steinem, Betty Friedan, and Andrea Dworkin (go read about the unfortunate guy she married). Friedan fell off the reservation, argued for a second movement to liberate men, and disappeared from view.

    . (There’s always been a contingent that mostly just wants to sleep around-Ellen Willis and Susie Bright come to mind. The problem, as Steve has said, is female conformity-if you’re sex positive, OTHER WOMEN have to be that way too, and same for the prudish ‘men suck’ types. Among men, hundreds of years ago you had Casanovas and monks, and neither extreme seemed to get too riled up at the other.)

    So at that point I would say it was Jewish straight women and lesbians of every ethnicity.

    In the third wave you see non Jewish women like Amanda Marcotte and Jessica Valente. Jewish women are still well represented though. Jill Filipovic and Rebecca Traister come to mind. The fourth wave pro trans types don’t seem quite so disproportionately Jewish, though probably still more than 2 percent, or even the 12-25 percent figure I’ve seen for *conservative* pundits (loosely defined).

    Replies: @Dave from Oz, @Polistra

    , @Art Deco
    @Anon

    Eight women ran the National Organization for Women from 1966 to 2001. Five of them had children and were married for an extended period of time during the course of their lives. Two of the three remaining (including the one who was an admitted bisexual) were not Jewish. The only Jewish childless woman among them was Karen Decrow. She was married twice, not a self-declared lesbian, and irritated her successors at NOW by promoting joint custody arrangements.

  39. @AnotherDad

    In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.

    But, women tend toward conformism — they just want to be like all the other women and all the other women to be like them — so they aren’t comfortable with this diversity among women.

    The not very maternal ones who want to be leaders of women have a simple all-purpose explanation for why other women don’t feel like them: they’ve been GASLIGHTED by men. It’s the fault of men that you like babies. Women are UNITED, except when they are brainwashed by the Patriarchy. Instead, you should be like me, your natural leader.

    That’s it. That’s feminism in a nutshell.
     
    Steve, this is really quite good.

    One thing a lot of people do not seem to understand--or at least give any thought to--is that we all inherit a lot of traits that were/are useful--at various times/places--for being a man and for being a woman. The specifically male adaptive traits were selected for primarily in your male ancestors (why they are your ancestors). And likewise the specifically female adaptive traits in your female ancestors.

    The XY/XX switching/non-switching and associated hormones wires you up as best it can for success. You get very few complete failures like the homosexuals. But we all have traits selected for success in women and in men.

    In the before time the reigning ideology was socially positive. And the leaders and "role models" were successful people. The women who were high status and "role models" that other women heard from and followed were women who themselves were successful at being wives and mothers for successful men.

    What feminism has wrought is that now women with fewer female adaptive genes/traits, who suck at being women--who are maladaptive--find cultural (academic, media) and government positions and lecture other women on how to be crappy women as well.

    Replies: @ThreeCranes, @AndrewR, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Esso, @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    “Steve, this is really quite good.”

    Agree.

  40. @Hypnotoad666
    @AnotherDad

    If I had to mansplain "feminism," I'd define it as getting the most for women by toggling back and forth between "women are the same" and "women are special." It only gets complicated because women disagree over what they want and which approach works best for getting it.

    Replies: @njguy73, @Thomm

    It only gets complicated because women disagree over what they want and which approach works best for getting it.

    Which, incidentally, is why ‘conservative’ women are just opposed to true equality for women as leftist feminist. They want the same ability to endlessly change the rules to advantage them, even if they have to contradict themselves in the space of five minutes. They want the optics of certain traditions, but do not want a single family-destroying law repealed. Not one.

    Most cuckservative GOP men think that women who vote Republican are against feminism for that reason alone. That is also why White Trashionalist men think the 1% of women who are in their community are somehow ‘against feminism’.

    That is why, for example, Rosie has both radical feminist and White Trashionalist views, with no apparent contradiction between the two. Ultimately, the two ideologies are the same, but that is another topic.

  41. @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus



    “In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.“
     
    That’s not truth, it’s your version of it.
     
    Corvi -- How can you bitch about Steve's comment? It's basically just an inane truism (which might be a valid criticism of it). The only way he could be wrong is if all women are identical.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Mr. Anon, @Mark G.

    “Corvi — How can you bitch about Steve’s comment?”

    50 cents per comment is 50 cents per comment.

  42. I’d tell the feminist story with slightly different emphasis. Lesbian women realized that they could take the place of men in telling women what to do, and profit thereby.

    Now, though, after only three generations, lesbians have been supplanted by a group with a much more ancient will to dominate.

    “… pummeled by ruthlessly aggressive men in frocks wearing a simple chain of pearls…”

    Interesting.

  43. By Chelsea Conaboy

    One wonders how many boys she’s conned.

    • LOL: Stan Adams, Rob McX, Abe
  44. @Altai

    In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.

    But, women tend toward conformism — they just want to be like all the other women and all the other women to be like them — so they aren’t comfortable with this diversity among women.

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEsgp3H7CU

    It seems like Kristen Stewart related a lot to this sketch they put her in.

    One of the things you simply can't fake is the noise a group of young women will make upon seeing a particularly cute baby or animal.

    Men find babies and animals cute too but obviously it's very different.

    Replies: @Pat Kittle, @Joe8056, @Peter Akuleyev, @Polistra

    Some women actually do hate babies, and children. I’ve known a few
    like that. The sad part is that many of them still get pregnant and have babies and children they won’t like. It’s one reason I grudgingly support abortion rights. Because unwanted children grow up to be criminals and sociopaths.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Polistra

    I dated a smart pretty blond lawyer who said she never wanted kids because she recognized that she had no maternal instinct whatsoever. She did like to practice though.

  45. @ScarletNumber
    It would be quite something if humans were the only mammals where the females of the species didn't instinctively feel maternal instinct.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Henry's Cat, @AndrewR, @Patrick McNally, @Bill Jones

    A simple sentence like yours would be effectively a grenade launched into this essay, but of course they’d never see it. So the science is settled, which is what people say who don’t know anything about science.

  46. Now that feminism, hoist by its own petard of social constructionism, is on the ropes and being pummeled by ruthlessly aggressive men in frocks wearing a simple chain of pearls,….

    By their feet, shall ye know them:

    https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/tooke-me-a-second-to-get-this/

    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
    @Mr. Anon

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVZm2fbBV70

  47. @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus



    “In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.“
     
    That’s not truth, it’s your version of it.
     
    Corvi -- How can you bitch about Steve's comment? It's basically just an inane truism (which might be a valid criticism of it). The only way he could be wrong is if all women are identical.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Mr. Anon, @Mark G.

    Corvi — How can you bitch about Steve’s comment? It’s basically just an inane truism (which might be a valid criticism of it). The only way he could be wrong is if all women are identical.

    Corvinus can bitch about it because he is a whiny little bitch. An especially stupid one too, as is painfully obvious.

  48. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Altai

    One of the things you simply can’t fake is the noise a group of young women will make upon seeing a particularly cute baby or animal.

    This is also most likely just Steve‘s conformity principle at work. Do young women from the Amazon rainforest make similar noises? Somehow I doubt it.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @S. Anonyia

    Do young women from the Amazon rainforest make similar noises? Somehow I doubt it.

    The cute animals in their neighborhood are deadly. Even Australia refused to allow an episode of Peppa Pig for being too friendly to arachnids.

  49. By Chelsea Conaboy

    Charles Darwin, etc.

    Sounds more like Charles Dickens.

    Women only became maternal because men wouldn’t give them a sharp stone to cut the cord.

    Ms. Niles, who is now a midwife and a fool for publishing this anti-advertisement.

  50. @Corvinus
    “In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.“

    That’s not truth, it’s your version of it. It would be nice for you to supply even a rudimentary form of support for your contention, or even modestly attempt to critically address the findings from the article.

    Maybe you can take time from feeding your dog to address the findings here.

    https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/maternal-instinct#instinct-vs-drive

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Hypnotoad666, @Alden, @AndrewR, @William Badwhite, @Mandrill with a hand drill

    Hey you ugly old crow have you ever ever had an original opinion about anything? No one ever clicks on your links.

    Steve Did men create the myth of women’s maternal instinct?

    Corvinus Well, my birthing parent dumped me at the gates of an all boy orphanage run by all men when I was 8 hours old. And I’ve never even spoken to a woman or girl. So I’ll type no inborn natural maternal instinct women into google. And viola!!!!! Here’s my clip and paste answer.

  51. Too many people preaching practices/Don’t let ’em tell you what you want to be😉

  52. I bet this “woman” has sound maternal instincts.

    • Replies: @petit bourgeois
    @Rob McX

    OMG that's the ugliest "woman" I've ever seen. Rachel Levine should be jealous. Like autopsy photos, I can't unsee it. Damn you!

    Whether it's gay marriage or trans mutilation, what the left advocates for is not the basis for their own existence.

    No human being is the product of a gay marriage or being sexually mutilated. It's all incomprehensible. People advocating against their own existence is insanity.

    , @HammerJack
    @Rob McX

    https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2020-07/16/20/asset/c3104153e04f/sub-buzz-2491-1594932166-29.jpg

    The purple hair may be an improvement but those hoop earrings have got to go.

    , @fish
    @Rob McX

    Jeez how bout a fucking warning next time…..I can’t unsee that!

    , @Daniel H
    @Rob McX

    Again, it's really gotta' suck to be a tranny with a receding hairline.

    , @Kolya Krassotkin
    @Rob McX

    Naan Binaari, OBE, Beauty School...

    OBE? "Order of the British Empire"? Dude was knighted before or after becoming a woman or is "she" just play acting?

    Given how rapidly Cuck Island is going downhill, I anticipate Charles III granting someone a knighthood for "her" contributions to tranny medicine within the first ten years of his accesion to the throne...if the monarchy hasn't been abolished by then.

    , @Bill Jones
    @Rob McX

    I think her fear is groundless.

    , @quewin
    @Rob McX

    That is the face of a demon.

    , @Prester John
    @Rob McX

    Assuming this isn't a gag, all this does is reinforce the notion that these people are mentally ill and in need of multiple doses of thorazine.

    In fact, one can say pretty much the same thing about most of the "woke" crowd.

    , @BB753
    @Rob McX

    Hold on to your seatbelts, we've not reached peak insanity yet!

    , @FPD72
    @Rob McX

    In Neil Simon’s Act II, the James Caan character describes a blind date as being a Star Wars character. So it is with this person, who looks like Jar Jar Binks’ lost sister.

    Do circus or carnival midways have freak shows any more? Probably not, due to PC, but even more importantly, you can’t charge for what is so readily available for free

    Replies: @CharleszMartel

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Rob McX

    That looks like something that pops out of a darkened recess at Disney's Haunted Mansion ride.

  53. basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution

    Some have zero children, some have 1 child, some have 2 (or more) children. How hard can this be to observe!

  54. Where did the idea that motherhood is hard-wired for women come from?

    That’s the (unintentionally) funniest thing I’ve heard all week.

    Is there a man behind the curtain?

    And that’s a great sarcastic reply to it.

    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian
  55. MUCH AGREED. WOMEN EAT THEIR OWN BABIES.

  56. @Rob McX
    I bet this "woman" has sound maternal instincts.


    https://i.ibb.co/jDrDQRB/beauty.webp

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @HammerJack, @fish, @Daniel H, @Kolya Krassotkin, @Bill Jones, @quewin, @Prester John, @BB753, @FPD72, @Mr. Anon

    OMG that’s the ugliest “woman” I’ve ever seen. Rachel Levine should be jealous. Like autopsy photos, I can’t unsee it. Damn you!

    Whether it’s gay marriage or trans mutilation, what the left advocates for is not the basis for their own existence.

    No human being is the product of a gay marriage or being sexually mutilated. It’s all incomprehensible. People advocating against their own existence is insanity.

  57. “She[Ms. Niles] was not feeling fabulous in new motherhood. She was exhausted and anxious…she struggled to understand what the baby needed.

    But Ms. Niles soon discovered that there was little room for that struggle within the prevailing narrative of motherhood…

    All around her swirled near-rapturous descriptions of the joys of new motherhood. They all celebrated the same thing — the woman who is able to instantly intuit and satisfy her baby’s every need, and to do it all on her own.

    Ms. Niles, who is now a midwife and researcher, wondered what was going on…what she took issue with was something more fundamental, about how our culture approaches motherhood. Where did the idea that motherhood is hard-wired for women come from?”

    So even though many if not most women were enjoying new motherhood, she wasn’t. That didn’t mean something was wrong with her or different about her, no, it meant the entire prevailing narrative must be wrong! The idea that motherhood is hardwired for women just as their reproductive systems are designed for motherhood couldn’t be right! The fact that she was an anxious not a rapturous mother must be the fault of men!

    Talk about malignant narcissism. She’s actually more narcissistic than Obama. When he failed to enjoy European culture, he wrote that it was beautiful, it just wasn’t his. This woman won’t even acknowledge that feeling maternal in a positive way is natural and innate because that wasn’t her experience or as they say nowadays, her truth. I hope her kid grows up to write a tell-all book about her shortcomings as a mother.

    • Agree: Rob McX
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Kylie

    Do you have a citation? I am all certain Obama didn't say that, although it does vaguely sound like something he'd say. But I do remember reading someone saying that.

    Replies: @Kylie

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Kylie

    C-p....One woman wrote it as a comment.

    I’m not wild about other people’s kids. Sure, I like some of them alright, but that’s about it. It’s totally different with my own.

    From the moment I got the positive pregnancy test result and knew there was a baby growing inside my body, I loved them. The feeling intensified when I could feel the baby moving. With both pregnancies, I willingly underwent bed rest and godawful medical procedures to halt preterm labor, because I loved the child and wanted her, and for the second pregnancy him, to make it into this world as close to full term and as healthy as possible.

    There’s no adequate way to describe the outpouring of love I felt when my children were born. They’re worth every long hour spent walking and singing to a colicky baby, every sleepless night rocking a sick child, and all the extra work that children bring. They bring more joy than worry, and more love than work. I wouldn’t ever go back to life without my children, even if I could. They’re worth everything. I’d die for them if it ever became necessary.

    Yes, women are made to be mothers. Some women are defective and don’t make good mothers. For the rest of us, motherhood is an incredible completion, an ultimate meaning in a meaningless world.

    , @CharleszMartel
    @Kylie

    Obams ( PBUH, cue choir of angels and find him a halo) was riffing on James Baldwin's "Stranger in the Village":

    "These people cannot be, from the point of view of power, strangers anywhere in the world; they have made the modern world, in effect, even if they do not know it. The most illiterate among them is related, in a way I am not, to Dante, Shakespeare, Michelangelo, Aeschylus, Da Vinci, Rembrandt, and Racine; the cathedral at Chartres says something to them which it cannot say to me, as indeed would New York’s Empire State Building, should anyone here ever see it. Out of their hymns and dances come Beethoven and Bach. Go back a few centuries and they are in their full glory—but I am in Africa, watching the conquerors arrive."

    Very similar to Joe Sobran's "The White Man stands astride the world as a Collosus" paragraph. Too busy to look it up.

    I'm surprised no-one's gone through Obama's "Pipe Dreams from my No- Good Father" to look for these references and possible plagiarism, but I guess they're all too busy trying to parse the Steele Dossier.

    Replies: @Kylie

  58. @Rob McX
    I bet this "woman" has sound maternal instincts.


    https://i.ibb.co/jDrDQRB/beauty.webp

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @HammerJack, @fish, @Daniel H, @Kolya Krassotkin, @Bill Jones, @quewin, @Prester John, @BB753, @FPD72, @Mr. Anon

    The purple hair may be an improvement but those hoop earrings have got to go.

  59. “Chelsea Conaboy”.

    – and, boy, can she con.

  60. @Rob McX
    I bet this "woman" has sound maternal instincts.


    https://i.ibb.co/jDrDQRB/beauty.webp

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @HammerJack, @fish, @Daniel H, @Kolya Krassotkin, @Bill Jones, @quewin, @Prester John, @BB753, @FPD72, @Mr. Anon

    Jeez how bout a fucking warning next time…..I can’t unsee that!

  61. The maternal-instinct probability distribution varies not only in intensity, but also in time horizon. Relatively few women sidle-up to their husbands and coo, “Let’s make a child.” Rather, it’s uttered or thought “let’s make a baby” – – the instinct more often tends to have that shorter viewpoint.

    By contrast, the man’s time viewpoint is longer – – he’s thinking that some day I’ll have a catch with the little guy. Descended from taking your caveman son to do some hunter-gathering together. And then there’s the ultimate long timeline: Updike’s Rabbit, who, in an unguarded moment, said that as he’s lying there dying he’ll be able to look up at his own DNA.

  62. @ScarletNumber
    It would be quite something if humans were the only mammals where the females of the species didn't instinctively feel maternal instinct.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Henry's Cat, @AndrewR, @Patrick McNally, @Bill Jones

    I wonder if zoologists have adopted the language of toxic masculinity.

  63. OT – The next front in WWD (World War Degeneracy) – beastiality:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/german-beastiality-buffs-demand-legalization-sex-animals

    What is it with the Germans anyway? Not all Germans are weirdos – most aren’t. But it seems like the weirdest weirdos are German.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Mr. Anon

    The question comes to mind, is there such a thing as a beast pimp?

    Then, also, is monkeypox the result of this version of perversion?

  64. @ScarletNumber
    It would be quite something if humans were the only mammals where the females of the species didn't instinctively feel maternal instinct.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Henry's Cat, @AndrewR, @Patrick McNally, @Bill Jones

    Biology is a white patriarchal supremacist construct.

  65. @That Would Be Telling
    @AnotherDad


    But my recollection is by the late 60s, Jewish 2nd wave “oppression” feminism had a strong element of “women are just like men” right out of the Jewish anti-science blank slate tradition. The differences were all “socially constructed” by the evil (gentile) patriarchy.
     
    Ha ha, not at all to the last sentence except in maybe what they said or implied. Per Kevin MacDonald, patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US. The first wave was suffragettes, who succeeded in their Official goal at the very beginning of the 1920s, the decade when Team Boas captured that part of the social sciences with their blank slate fraud.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @AnotherDad

    • Thanks: That Would Be Telling
    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Remake "Sex and the City" and replace the lead women characters with trannies.

    Replies: @Eddie the swarthy rat cellar, @quewin, @CharleszMartel

    , @LP5
    @Achmed E. Newman

    5th Wave Feminism - We're not "women". We're women. (Insert photo of your favorite beautiful woman)

    That day probably isn't too far off, as the pendulum will swing as it always does.

    Now, be a good child and call your mother.

  66. @Corvinus
    “In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.“

    That’s not truth, it’s your version of it. It would be nice for you to supply even a rudimentary form of support for your contention, or even modestly attempt to critically address the findings from the article.

    Maybe you can take time from feeding your dog to address the findings here.

    https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/maternal-instinct#instinct-vs-drive

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Hypnotoad666, @Alden, @AndrewR, @William Badwhite, @Mandrill with a hand drill

    Do you have any friends?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @AndrewR

    We’re all friends here as white people.

  67. Feminazis get the end they deserve. They fought for unnaturalness, pretending women should act as men — and now are destroyed by unnaturalness, by men pretending to be women while acting as men.

    No sympathy. Let them rot, the commie hags.

  68. @AnotherDad

    In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.

    But, women tend toward conformism — they just want to be like all the other women and all the other women to be like them — so they aren’t comfortable with this diversity among women.

    The not very maternal ones who want to be leaders of women have a simple all-purpose explanation for why other women don’t feel like them: they’ve been GASLIGHTED by men. It’s the fault of men that you like babies. Women are UNITED, except when they are brainwashed by the Patriarchy. Instead, you should be like me, your natural leader.

    That’s it. That’s feminism in a nutshell.
     
    Steve, this is really quite good.

    One thing a lot of people do not seem to understand--or at least give any thought to--is that we all inherit a lot of traits that were/are useful--at various times/places--for being a man and for being a woman. The specifically male adaptive traits were selected for primarily in your male ancestors (why they are your ancestors). And likewise the specifically female adaptive traits in your female ancestors.

    The XY/XX switching/non-switching and associated hormones wires you up as best it can for success. You get very few complete failures like the homosexuals. But we all have traits selected for success in women and in men.

    In the before time the reigning ideology was socially positive. And the leaders and "role models" were successful people. The women who were high status and "role models" that other women heard from and followed were women who themselves were successful at being wives and mothers for successful men.

    What feminism has wrought is that now women with fewer female adaptive genes/traits, who suck at being women--who are maladaptive--find cultural (academic, media) and government positions and lecture other women on how to be crappy women as well.

    Replies: @ThreeCranes, @AndrewR, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Esso, @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    Abuelo, why do you assume homosexuals are “complete failures”?

  69. @Thomas
    One thing that probably makes a big difference in how maternal a mother can feel that wasn't addressed openly in this opinion piece but was sort of hinted at: the involvement and presence of the father. It doesn't surprise me that single mothers or primary breadwinner mothers wouldn't have much time or energy to feel particularly maternal or to enjoy motherhood. Feminism has long been known as an ideology that feeds on its own failures: its contribution to female unhappiness produces ever more unhappy women to recruit as feminists. It's a pretty direct route from undermining or eliminating the role of fathers and promoting single motherhood to then complaining that mothers don't feel very maternal.

    Replies: @AKAHorace, @Keypusher

    One thing that probably makes a big difference in how maternal a mother can feel that wasn’t addressed openly in this opinion piece but was sort of hinted at: the involvement and presence of the father.

    It might be easier to feel maternal if you had some help and were not struggling for your own survival ?

    Guessing as a man, would welcome comments from any women who are on this thread.

  70. @AnotherDad

    In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.

    But, women tend toward conformism — they just want to be like all the other women and all the other women to be like them — so they aren’t comfortable with this diversity among women.

    The not very maternal ones who want to be leaders of women have a simple all-purpose explanation for why other women don’t feel like them: they’ve been GASLIGHTED by men. It’s the fault of men that you like babies. Women are UNITED, except when they are brainwashed by the Patriarchy. Instead, you should be like me, your natural leader.

    That’s it. That’s feminism in a nutshell.
     
    Steve, this is really quite good.

    One thing a lot of people do not seem to understand--or at least give any thought to--is that we all inherit a lot of traits that were/are useful--at various times/places--for being a man and for being a woman. The specifically male adaptive traits were selected for primarily in your male ancestors (why they are your ancestors). And likewise the specifically female adaptive traits in your female ancestors.

    The XY/XX switching/non-switching and associated hormones wires you up as best it can for success. You get very few complete failures like the homosexuals. But we all have traits selected for success in women and in men.

    In the before time the reigning ideology was socially positive. And the leaders and "role models" were successful people. The women who were high status and "role models" that other women heard from and followed were women who themselves were successful at being wives and mothers for successful men.

    What feminism has wrought is that now women with fewer female adaptive genes/traits, who suck at being women--who are maladaptive--find cultural (academic, media) and government positions and lecture other women on how to be crappy women as well.

    Replies: @ThreeCranes, @AndrewR, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Esso, @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    “What feminism has wrought is that now women with fewer female adaptive genes/traits, who suck at being women–who are maladaptive–find cultural (academic, media) and government positions and lecture other women on how to be crappy women as well.”

    Well, great — as long as it’s only the shiksas who buy this crap, and it leads to inevitable goy extinction right on schedule…

    The rest of you schvartze ladies, please feel free to have and to nurture many many children.

  71. “Ms. Niles, who is now a midwife”

    Fer the luvva pete, WHY??!?

    So she can strangle newborns with their umbilical cords before the mother comes to her senses?!

  72. @Rob McX
    I bet this "woman" has sound maternal instincts.


    https://i.ibb.co/jDrDQRB/beauty.webp

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @HammerJack, @fish, @Daniel H, @Kolya Krassotkin, @Bill Jones, @quewin, @Prester John, @BB753, @FPD72, @Mr. Anon

    Again, it’s really gotta’ suck to be a tranny with a receding hairline.

  73. @Twinkie

    Ms. Conaboy is a journalist
     
    It's almost always the freaking "journalists" who write this kind of nonsense. They just latch onto any "narratives" that tend to jive with their prior sentiments with no concern at all for the scientific principles (e.g. replication). Now their modus operandi has infected academia itself.

    All is no longer vanity, it's all just "feelz" now.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach.
    Those who can’t teach, become journalists.

    • Agree: Prester John
    • LOL: Twinkie
  74. So what we have here is a willful denial of reality on behalf of an agenda that would rip out one of the most fundamental cornerstones of all human cultures.

    It’s more than just arrogance; it’s outright insanity.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Colin Wright

    It's not insane. It's very calculated satanism. And it's an effective form of social control.

    Mind you, I'm not saying that the femoid who wrote this garbage piece is exactly in on the whole plan. She probably is plain insane. But the owners and editors of the NYT know exactly what they're doing.

  75. @Rob McX
    I bet this "woman" has sound maternal instincts.


    https://i.ibb.co/jDrDQRB/beauty.webp

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @HammerJack, @fish, @Daniel H, @Kolya Krassotkin, @Bill Jones, @quewin, @Prester John, @BB753, @FPD72, @Mr. Anon

    Naan Binaari, OBE, Beauty School…

    OBE? “Order of the British Empire”? Dude was knighted before or after becoming a woman or is “she” just play acting?

    Given how rapidly Cuck Island is going downhill, I anticipate Charles III granting someone a knighthood for “her” contributions to tranny medicine within the first ten years of his accesion to the throne…if the monarchy hasn’t been abolished by then.

  76. @Achmed E. Newman
    @That Would Be Telling

    https://www.peakstupidity.com/images/post_2290A.jpg

    Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin, @LP5

    Remake “Sex and the City” and replace the lead women characters with trannies.

    • Replies: @Eddie the swarthy rat cellar
    @Kolya Krassotkin

    How would we know the difference?

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    , @quewin
    @Kolya Krassotkin

    Or women [sic] who look like those four.

    , @CharleszMartel
    @Kolya Krassotkin

    It's already been done, a few years back
    See these:

    https://youtu.be/-l4KBOB9_xM

    There are actually lots of them by this guy and others, this is a good starting point.

    Just remember,

    "That's a MAN, baby!!"

  77. @AnotherDad

    In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.

    But, women tend toward conformism — they just want to be like all the other women and all the other women to be like them — so they aren’t comfortable with this diversity among women.

    The not very maternal ones who want to be leaders of women have a simple all-purpose explanation for why other women don’t feel like them: they’ve been GASLIGHTED by men. It’s the fault of men that you like babies. Women are UNITED, except when they are brainwashed by the Patriarchy. Instead, you should be like me, your natural leader.

    That’s it. That’s feminism in a nutshell.
     
    Steve, this is really quite good.

    One thing a lot of people do not seem to understand--or at least give any thought to--is that we all inherit a lot of traits that were/are useful--at various times/places--for being a man and for being a woman. The specifically male adaptive traits were selected for primarily in your male ancestors (why they are your ancestors). And likewise the specifically female adaptive traits in your female ancestors.

    The XY/XX switching/non-switching and associated hormones wires you up as best it can for success. You get very few complete failures like the homosexuals. But we all have traits selected for success in women and in men.

    In the before time the reigning ideology was socially positive. And the leaders and "role models" were successful people. The women who were high status and "role models" that other women heard from and followed were women who themselves were successful at being wives and mothers for successful men.

    What feminism has wrought is that now women with fewer female adaptive genes/traits, who suck at being women--who are maladaptive--find cultural (academic, media) and government positions and lecture other women on how to be crappy women as well.

    Replies: @ThreeCranes, @AndrewR, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Esso, @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    The XY/XX switching/non-switching and associated hormones wires you up as best it can for success. You get very few complete failures like the homosexuals. But we all have traits selected for success in women and in men.

    A highly explanatory observation in this context is that the female sexual characteristics seem to be the default in a sense, and the male ones a perturbation on that default. It’s a lot easier to lose that add-on functionality by some developmental disorder than to accidentally gain it, therefore the greater share of homo/trans males and XYs with female genitalia.

  78. The logic of the anti-natalist cult – of which ‘women are brainwashed to be maternal’ is part (along with gender fluidity incantations, climate apocalypse propaganda, the nuclear family is neo-colonialist etc etc) – has always escaped me. Since ‘success’ means a collapsing birth rate (below replacement 2.1 levels most everywhere in The West, tick) and therefore a rapidly ageing population (Europe, even China turning Japanese in decrepitude. tick), the end result is a much older and therefore conservative population…who will vote more reliably against these cockamamy perverse and species-harming notions.

    • Replies: @Dave from Oz
    @TyRade


    the end result is a much older and therefore conservative population…who will vote more reliably against these cockamamy perverse and species-harming notions.
     
    "conservative" means voting for what you are used to. Those old hippies continue to support policies that demonstrably destroy societies, because they have always belived what they believe now. That's being conservative.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @CharleszMartel

  79. @Kylie
    "She[Ms. Niles] was not feeling fabulous in new motherhood. She was exhausted and anxious...she struggled to understand what the baby needed.

    But Ms. Niles soon discovered that there was little room for that struggle within the prevailing narrative of motherhood...

    All around her swirled near-rapturous descriptions of the joys of new motherhood. They all celebrated the same thing — the woman who is able to instantly intuit and satisfy her baby’s every need, and to do it all on her own.

    Ms. Niles, who is now a midwife and researcher, wondered what was going on...what she took issue with was something more fundamental, about how our culture approaches motherhood. Where did the idea that motherhood is hard-wired for women come from?"

    So even though many if not most women were enjoying new motherhood, she wasn't. That didn't mean something was wrong with her or different about her, no, it meant the entire prevailing narrative must be wrong! The idea that motherhood is hardwired for women just as their reproductive systems are designed for motherhood couldn't be right! The fact that she was an anxious not a rapturous mother must be the fault of men!

    Talk about malignant narcissism. She's actually more narcissistic than Obama. When he failed to enjoy European culture, he wrote that it was beautiful, it just wasn't his. This woman won't even acknowledge that feeling maternal in a positive way is natural and innate because that wasn't her experience or as they say nowadays, her truth. I hope her kid grows up to write a tell-all book about her shortcomings as a mother.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Bardon Kaldian, @CharleszMartel

    Do you have a citation? I am all certain Obama didn’t say that, although it does vaguely sound like something he’d say. But I do remember reading someone saying that.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @AndrewR

    Citation? It's a paraphrase, not a quotation.

    I read it in Obama's autobiography, Dreams from My Father in Chapter Fifteen (which Google search results hilariously refer to as a "Novel by Barack Obama"):

    "It wasn’t that Europe wasn’t beautiful; everything was just as I imagined it. It just wasn’t mine."

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  80. I told you this would happen. They are coming for your dog. The Krauts are leading the way.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/german-beastiality-buffs-demand-legalization-sex-animals

    “it is much easier to build a relationship with animals than humans,”

  81. @Rob McX
    I bet this "woman" has sound maternal instincts.


    https://i.ibb.co/jDrDQRB/beauty.webp

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @HammerJack, @fish, @Daniel H, @Kolya Krassotkin, @Bill Jones, @quewin, @Prester John, @BB753, @FPD72, @Mr. Anon

    I think her fear is groundless.

  82. One of the saddest sounds in the British countryside is at the time of year, in midsummer or late summer depending on latitude, when they separate the mother sheep from their lambs, many of whom will end up in kebabs or lamb chops.

    The mothers all cry for their babies, and they don’t stop – it can go on all day and all night for a couple of days. You’re walking in the beautiful Yorkshire or Derbyshire Dales, the sun is shining, and you can hear the ovine misery for miles and miles – it really carries.

    Here’s a cow whose calf needs help

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Yeah, so maybe it shouldn't be done? There's a special place in hell for people who slaughter baby animals, and for those who eat them.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @YetAnotherAnon

    , @Mandrill with a hand drill
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Wait a sec are you trying to cause me moral terror again

  83. @Calvin Hobbes
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6B-r3QQw9M

    https://genius.com/Crazy-ex-girlfriend-cast-women-gotta-stick-together-lyrics

    Women gotta stick together
    And tell each other the truth—
    The truth is you're all fat sluts
    And that's called sisterhood

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Of all the people who died of covid, songwriter Adam Schlesinger is the one I miss the most.

  84. I will say one thing in her defense. Ever since she picked up her first doll she’s been told motherhood is the greatest thing ever. Every commercial shows her that. All her friends go on rapturously about motherhood. Everywhere she looks, happy mothers with beautiful happy children. But it’s not like that. It’s dirty. It’s smelly. It’s loud. You can’t hold a conversation with an 18-month-old. Stay-at-home mom is a pretty crappy job. So now she’s thinking (maybe subconsciously), “Wtf is the matter with me? Was this whole thing a lie?” It’s VERY hard on her.

    Funny thing is, you knew all this without even thinking about it. You knew a diaper smelled like shit, because … there’s shit in it. That never occurred to her until she was elbows-deep. You knew a two-year-old wouldn’t do a thing you told him. Why would he? The entire world revolves around him. Never occurred to her. You take the whole thing with a smile and a grain of salt. She thinks something has gone horribly wrong.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    @Cool Daddy Jimbo

    Mothers are now more isolated from other mothers than they were during the Baby Boom. Fewer mothers to spend time with and stuck with only the child or children all day for company.

    , @Anonymous
    @Cool Daddy Jimbo

    There's actually a reason why 2 year olds tend to say "no" to their parents.

    At that age they are starting to understand the concept of self as a distinct individual from their parents.

    So they try to disobey to test the idea that they are their own individuals.

  85. @Badger Down
    No maternal instinct: Phew! Next time I go hiking in the mountains I don't have to avoid Mama Bear and Mrs Tiger, guarding their lilluns.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I can recall driving through Yosemite Valley in the 1960s when I was about seven. We see a huge number of cars pulled over on one side of the road. We follow the motorists into the woods, where about 100 people have encircled a cute baby bear cub all by his lonesome. My dad grabs me by the collar and drags me back to the car and we drive away. My father didn’t know that mother bears’ maternal instinct was a male conspiracy.

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @Steve Sailer

    A hundred idiots. Some things never change.

    , @Badger Down
    @Steve Sailer

    You had a collar! I recall my Californian friend being badly shocked that I had been kept on a leash as a toddler. We called them "reins" in those days.

  86. @ScarletNumber
    It would be quite something if humans were the only mammals where the females of the species didn't instinctively feel maternal instinct.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Henry's Cat, @AndrewR, @Patrick McNally, @Bill Jones

    Maternal instinct in the proper sense only arises after a pregnancy. A female cat who is in heat will feel a mating instinct towards any nearby male cats. But she has no conception of motherhood when doing this. It’s only after the kittens have popped out that she suddenly has a maternal instinct to care for them. Human culture is based off a capacity for memory. That means that children grow up knowing that it is possible for themselves to one day have children of their own. A culture can even nurture within them the desire to one day have their own children. But this is not really an instinct. This is more of an anticipation by our intelligence that one day sexual instincts may compel us to do something which results in a pregnancy, and so it may be better to develop an appreciation of that in advance.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
  87. @Anon
    Two things are true at the same time: (1) many women have a strong maternal instinct; and (2) taking care of babies is exhausting. #2 doesn't disprove #1.

    Of course, some women aren't meant to be mothers. We call those women lesbians. Homosexuality is nature's way of making sure some genes don't get passed on.

    Replies: @SFG

    Nature doesn’t have goals; genes that favor reproduction get passed on. It’s not clear at all homosexuality has any ‘function’ in getting rid of other deleterious genes. Exactly why such a thing should recur is unclear, given the obvious low reproductive fitness. I have heard suggestions that it’s the other sex’s attraction genes getting turned on by mistake, or that it may serve some kind of bonding function to increase the number of same sex allies-the last from Diana Fleischman, Geoffrey Miller’s wife. Makes as much sense as anything else I’ve heard.

    But who, nowadays, would dare to try and figure it out?

    • Replies: @Prester John
    @SFG

    Nothing is "clear" about homosexuality. Or about human behavior in general.

    We know more--far more in fact--about the physical universe than we do about ourselves.

  88. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    “Maternal Instinct Is a Myth That Men Created”
     
    Conaboy's NYT op-ed piece heavily criticized online praise of “khazar milkers”. Surprised it got published!

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    Conaboy’s NYT op-ed piece heavily criticized online praise of “khazar milkers”

    Can you quote it? Don’t want to sign into NYT.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @YetAnotherAnon


    Can you quote it? Don’t want to sign into NYT.
     
    It probably isn’t there. I have been known to joke around from time to time. :)

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/who-belongs/#comment-1483894 (#9)
  89. @Travis
    Feminism is anti-female. Feminism mocks and attacks feminine women for their femininity. Being feminine is the source of women's greatest power, their ability to attract a male provider and a father for their children.

    Feminism which is pro-female would praise motherhood and honor feminine women for achieving success in feminine pursuits like knitting, crocheting, cooking, keeping a clean home and knowing how to wear makeup and do their hair, staying attractive for their spouse etc....

    Feminists mock and deride feminine pursuits and goals such as becoming a housewife, motherhood, and participating in beauty pageants...Instead Feminists praise masculine women for doing masculine activities and achieving success in masculine careers and pursuits. By praising masculine women feminists are the real sexists, as they consider only masculine activities to be of value. If Feminists were trying to improve the lives of females they would not be promoting masculine activities for women but would be promoting the values of feminine pursuits and praising the most feminine females for their femininity instead of praising masculine females for their manly achievements...

    Replies: @SFG, @Art Deco

    There’s actually internal debate about that among feminists, but the ones who want women to work more always win.

  90. @Kolya Krassotkin
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Remake "Sex and the City" and replace the lead women characters with trannies.

    Replies: @Eddie the swarthy rat cellar, @quewin, @CharleszMartel

    How would we know the difference?

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Eddie the swarthy rat cellar

    No one would want to have sex with them.

  91. @Anon

    The not very maternal ones who want to be leaders of women
     
    Most feminist thought leaders have been Jewish lesbians, not low-maternal-instinct heterosexuals.

    Replies: @SFG, @Art Deco

    My dad said the feminist movement was split between angry straight women and lesbians (this being back in the 80s he would have meant the second wave of the 70s). Hm, Mom was Jewish, maybe that’s why he left that last part out. (She wasn’t a feminist though. They’re still married.)

    Quite a few of the big names there were, in fact, heterosexual and Jewish-I am thinking of Gloria Steinem, Betty Friedan, and Andrea Dworkin (go read about the unfortunate guy she married). Friedan fell off the reservation, argued for a second movement to liberate men, and disappeared from view.

    . (There’s always been a contingent that mostly just wants to sleep around-Ellen Willis and Susie Bright come to mind. The problem, as Steve has said, is female conformity-if you’re sex positive, OTHER WOMEN have to be that way too, and same for the prudish ‘men suck’ types. Among men, hundreds of years ago you had Casanovas and monks, and neither extreme seemed to get too riled up at the other.)

    So at that point I would say it was Jewish straight women and lesbians of every ethnicity.

    In the third wave you see non Jewish women like Amanda Marcotte and Jessica Valente. Jewish women are still well represented though. Jill Filipovic and Rebecca Traister come to mind. The fourth wave pro trans types don’t seem quite so disproportionately Jewish, though probably still more than 2 percent, or even the 12-25 percent figure I’ve seen for *conservative* pundits (loosely defined).

    • Thanks: That Would Be Telling
    • Replies: @Dave from Oz
    @SFG

    The link between jews and feminism is that circumcision makes a man terrible in bed.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @CharleszMartel

    , @Polistra
    @SFG


    The fourth wave pro trans types don’t seem quite so disproportionately Jewish, though probably still more than 2 percent
     
    ROFL
  92. @Colin Wright
    So what we have here is a willful denial of reality on behalf of an agenda that would rip out one of the most fundamental cornerstones of all human cultures.

    It's more than just arrogance; it's outright insanity.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    It’s not insane. It’s very calculated satanism. And it’s an effective form of social control.

    Mind you, I’m not saying that the femoid who wrote this garbage piece is exactly in on the whole plan. She probably is plain insane. But the owners and editors of the NYT know exactly what they’re doing.

  93. @ScarletNumber
    It would be quite something if humans were the only mammals where the females of the species didn't instinctively feel maternal instinct.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Henry's Cat, @AndrewR, @Patrick McNally, @Bill Jones

    It would be quite something if humans were the only mammals where the females of the species didn’t instinctively feel maternal instinct.

    There’s a word for mammals with no maternal instinct: Extinct.

    That’s the choice: Instinct or Extinct.

    • Agree: Rob McX
    • Replies: @HallParvey
    @Bill Jones


    That’s the choice: Instinct or Extinct.
     
    That is, quite possibly, the shortest, most perfect explanation of reality I have ever read. Brilliant.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    , @Wade Hampton
    @Bill Jones

    I've often said that if human females had the same priorities as human males, the species would have gone extinct millennia ago.

    The standard response of human males when confronted with an infant is "What is all this yelling about? And the smell is nasty. I need a beer. Let's go to the local bar."

    The standard response of human females is somewhat different. They find the smelly, noisy little homunculi unfathomable attractive.

    , @CharleszMartel
    @Bill Jones

    Kind of like the choice we have in the West:

    Integration or Civilization.

    Can't have both, although we haven't learned that yet.

    But more are learning this every day.

    We will.

  94. @mmack
    “Men find babies and animals cute too but obviously it’s very different.”

    “God makes ‘em cute so you won’t kill ‘em.”

    Replies: @Dave from Oz, @Ancient Briton, @Rob

    “God makes ‘em cute so you won’t kill ‘em.”

    Veal.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Dave from Oz

    And that's why they tell you not to eat babies.

    Humanity wiped out 2.1 lunches.

  95. @Rob McX
    I bet this "woman" has sound maternal instincts.


    https://i.ibb.co/jDrDQRB/beauty.webp

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @HammerJack, @fish, @Daniel H, @Kolya Krassotkin, @Bill Jones, @quewin, @Prester John, @BB753, @FPD72, @Mr. Anon

    That is the face of a demon.

  96. @Kolya Krassotkin
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Remake "Sex and the City" and replace the lead women characters with trannies.

    Replies: @Eddie the swarthy rat cellar, @quewin, @CharleszMartel

    Or women [sic] who look like those four.

  97. All around her swirled near-rapturous descriptions of the joys of new motherhood. They all celebrated the same thing — the woman who is able to instantly intuit and satisfy her baby’s every need, and to do it all on her own.

    I struggle to have any sympathy with single mothers.

  98. @TyRade
    The logic of the anti-natalist cult - of which 'women are brainwashed to be maternal' is part (along with gender fluidity incantations, climate apocalypse propaganda, the nuclear family is neo-colonialist etc etc) - has always escaped me. Since 'success' means a collapsing birth rate (below replacement 2.1 levels most everywhere in The West, tick) and therefore a rapidly ageing population (Europe, even China turning Japanese in decrepitude. tick), the end result is a much older and therefore conservative population...who will vote more reliably against these cockamamy perverse and species-harming notions.

    Replies: @Dave from Oz

    the end result is a much older and therefore conservative population…who will vote more reliably against these cockamamy perverse and species-harming notions.

    “conservative” means voting for what you are used to. Those old hippies continue to support policies that demonstrably destroy societies, because they have always belived what they believe now. That’s being conservative.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
    @Dave from Oz


    “conservative” means voting for what you are used to. Those old hippies continue to support policies that demonstrably destroy societies, because they have always belived what they believe now. That’s being conservative.
     
    It's a simple extension of Robert Conquest's first Law of Politics, "Everyone is conservative about what he knows best" that these "hippies" are used to having enough food to eat and not freezing in the winter (and more recently good enough AC in hot parts of the country). Reliable electric power without rolling blackouts as well.

    Replies: @CharleszMartel

    , @CharleszMartel
    @Dave from Oz

    That is why I describe myself as a reactionary.

    What is there about this culture I find good enough to conserve?

    Gender Dysphoria? Feminist twaddle? Anti-White
    Hysteria? Which subhuman primate the Kardashian whores are copulating with this week?

    The wit and wisdom of Kamala Harris? The genius-level observations of Occasional- Cortex and the twat squad? The fact that a Supreme Court nominee lawyerette can't distinguish between a man and a woman as she's not a biologist?

    Maybe it is time to let it all burn down.....

  99. @SFG
    @Anon

    My dad said the feminist movement was split between angry straight women and lesbians (this being back in the 80s he would have meant the second wave of the 70s). Hm, Mom was Jewish, maybe that’s why he left that last part out. (She wasn’t a feminist though. They’re still married.)

    Quite a few of the big names there were, in fact, heterosexual and Jewish-I am thinking of Gloria Steinem, Betty Friedan, and Andrea Dworkin (go read about the unfortunate guy she married). Friedan fell off the reservation, argued for a second movement to liberate men, and disappeared from view.

    . (There’s always been a contingent that mostly just wants to sleep around-Ellen Willis and Susie Bright come to mind. The problem, as Steve has said, is female conformity-if you’re sex positive, OTHER WOMEN have to be that way too, and same for the prudish ‘men suck’ types. Among men, hundreds of years ago you had Casanovas and monks, and neither extreme seemed to get too riled up at the other.)

    So at that point I would say it was Jewish straight women and lesbians of every ethnicity.

    In the third wave you see non Jewish women like Amanda Marcotte and Jessica Valente. Jewish women are still well represented though. Jill Filipovic and Rebecca Traister come to mind. The fourth wave pro trans types don’t seem quite so disproportionately Jewish, though probably still more than 2 percent, or even the 12-25 percent figure I’ve seen for *conservative* pundits (loosely defined).

    Replies: @Dave from Oz, @Polistra

    The link between jews and feminism is that circumcision makes a man terrible in bed.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Dave from Oz


    The link between jews and feminism is that circumcision makes a man terrible in bed.
     
    Please tell us how you know this.

    Replies: @Hereward the Woke

    , @CharleszMartel
    @Dave from Oz

    I'd always heard that circumcised men lasted longer and were therefore considered better.

    But I've been with a woman who didn't like circumcised cock, although she liked mine ( and I am circumcised).

    She said that I still had enough foreskin to cover all of the head of my penis if not erect. She hated the look of a penis where it seemed the skin near the head appeared perpetually stretched.

    According to articles I read in the early 70's (I think in Forum when it was interesting and not just bad letters), it is sometimes possible to restore some sort of foreskin by skin stretching methods.

    Anyhoo, as long as it works it's all good!

  100. @Anonymous
    Are women evolved to be mothers? Obviously. But that doesn't mean they are evolved to be happy mothers. Evolution optimizes for reproductive success, not happiness. In many scenarios past and present, it is surely optimal for mothers to be worried, restless, "stressed out", etc.

    Replies: @Thea, @Recently Based

    Maternal neuroticism saves many a life.

    The view of happiest as a valid life purpose or even the intent of nature originates from a strange display of wealth and comfort allowed by modern life. Leisure class indeed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Thea


    Maternal neuroticism saves many a life.
     
    Arguably does more harm than good in the rich safe modern world.

    Remember the 'allergy moms' who made school/sports/etc hell for normal parents and teachers? Thank god that seems to be over.
  101. @Rob McX
    I bet this "woman" has sound maternal instincts.


    https://i.ibb.co/jDrDQRB/beauty.webp

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @HammerJack, @fish, @Daniel H, @Kolya Krassotkin, @Bill Jones, @quewin, @Prester John, @BB753, @FPD72, @Mr. Anon

    Assuming this isn’t a gag, all this does is reinforce the notion that these people are mentally ill and in need of multiple doses of thorazine.

    In fact, one can say pretty much the same thing about most of the “woke” crowd.

  102. @Eddie the swarthy rat cellar
    @Kolya Krassotkin

    How would we know the difference?

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    No one would want to have sex with them.

  103. @AndrewR
    @Corvinus

    Do you have any friends?

    Replies: @Corvinus

    We’re all friends here as white people.

    • Troll: Polistra
  104. @SFG
    @Anon

    Nature doesn’t have goals; genes that favor reproduction get passed on. It’s not clear at all homosexuality has any ‘function’ in getting rid of other deleterious genes. Exactly why such a thing should recur is unclear, given the obvious low reproductive fitness. I have heard suggestions that it’s the other sex’s attraction genes getting turned on by mistake, or that it may serve some kind of bonding function to increase the number of same sex allies-the last from Diana Fleischman, Geoffrey Miller’s wife. Makes as much sense as anything else I’ve heard.

    But who, nowadays, would dare to try and figure it out?

    Replies: @Prester John

    Nothing is “clear” about homosexuality. Or about human behavior in general.

    We know more–far more in fact–about the physical universe than we do about ourselves.

  105. Just like delusional men who insist they are really women, the feminist thinkers believe if they say some nonsense many times and loudly enough it will is true. Reminds me of the guy who really believed the glass he was drinking from contained water only to discover it was wood grain alcohol. Sincere belief don’t mean spit if what one believes just ain’t so.

  106. @Dave from Oz
    @TyRade


    the end result is a much older and therefore conservative population…who will vote more reliably against these cockamamy perverse and species-harming notions.
     
    "conservative" means voting for what you are used to. Those old hippies continue to support policies that demonstrably destroy societies, because they have always belived what they believe now. That's being conservative.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @CharleszMartel

    “conservative” means voting for what you are used to. Those old hippies continue to support policies that demonstrably destroy societies, because they have always belived what they believe now. That’s being conservative.

    It’s a simple extension of Robert Conquest’s first Law of Politics, “Everyone is conservative about what he knows best” that these “hippies” are used to having enough food to eat and not freezing in the winter (and more recently good enough AC in hot parts of the country). Reliable electric power without rolling blackouts as well.

    • Replies: @CharleszMartel
    @That Would Be Telling

    Kind of like the choice we have in the West:

    Integration or Civilization.

    Can't have both, although we haven't learned that yet.

    But more are learning this every day.

    We will.

  107. @Rob McX
    I bet this "woman" has sound maternal instincts.


    https://i.ibb.co/jDrDQRB/beauty.webp

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @HammerJack, @fish, @Daniel H, @Kolya Krassotkin, @Bill Jones, @quewin, @Prester John, @BB753, @FPD72, @Mr. Anon

    Hold on to your seatbelts, we’ve not reached peak insanity yet!

  108. In human beings, it’s something that varies.

    NYT article is idiotic, but how can we explain that over 50% of Japanese and Korean women are childless & seem not to be much disturbed by that. It is not that 5-10% of women don’t want or can’t have babies-but a great percentage, 30% to 50%- simply don’t care.

    It is another thing with those who already have children; this really is, in most cases, instinct.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I suspect that in Japan and South Korea, the bellcurve for parental instinct simply has a narrow distribution, just as the distribution for physical traits, mental traits, attitudes towards gender, and attitudes towards LGBT in these countries also have narrow distributions.

    Almost no Japanese and Koreans hate kids. Almost no Japanese and Koreans want 10+ kids.

    Whereas in Caucasian populations you get a higher percentage of people who hate kids and get vasectomy or tubal ligation and also a high percentage of people who are fundamentalist Christian and want to have many kids.

  109. @Roger
    Hire a random teenaged girl to do some babysitting. Then a teenaged boy. Let me know if you notice any differences.

    Most animals even show maternal instincts.

    Replies: @mc23

    I’ve taken my wife to an infertility support group. No man goes to an infertility support group on their own initiative. The group contained women who always wanted children, women who never wanted children and women who were undecided. Now after years of trying and treatments they sought the company of the similarly afflicted.
    In the end most women want children just not too many, one or two will do. There is an instinct to have children and it is much more acute among women, otherwise why?

    And the maternal instinct to care is stronger in women- great example-

    Hire a random teenaged girl to do some babysitting. Then a teenaged boy. Let me know if you notice any differences.

    Childless couples can be quite happy. I know a couple in their 50’s quite happy, lots of money, lots of friends. Myself and another prolific co-worker have only one question- “What do you talk to your wife about?”

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  110. Both women and men have a protective instinct. The female protective instinct focuses mostly on children while the male instinct focuses on both women and children. This is why men do things like stay on the Titanic while women and children are getting into the lifeboats.

    Women would traditionally look for a mate who they were sexually attracted to and who they felt had enough of a protective instinct to stick around and kind of take care of them and their children together. The welfare state, though, changed the type of calculation females did. They could just pick the most sexually attractive male while having the government take over the protector and provider role. Any genes that cause males to be protective are probably slowly being bred out of the population since men who carry those genes are less likely to be picked by women now to be fathers. Society will increasingly become like an inner-city ghetto in which good looking but irresponsible men are baby daddies to multiple women. Inner city ghettoes don’t generate any taxes but suck up a lot of welfare money so if the entire society becomes like that it will lead to a civilizational collapse.

    • Replies: @CCG
    @Mark G.


    Society will increasingly become like an inner-city ghetto in which good looking but irresponsible men are baby daddies to multiple women.
     
    So, Sub-Saharan Africa based on R-selection? Then there's a need to restrict child benefits to married couples only.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Anonymous
    @Mark G.

    You're forgetting that most people aren't poor enough to qualify for welfare.

    Only LC and some LMC people can get welfare. MMC, UMC, and UC women know that in order to get money, they have to either work, inherit, or marry a MMC, UMC, or UC man.

    Ghetto selection will only happen in the LC and to a lesser extent in the LMC.

  111. @Mike Tre
    "She slept little and cried a lot. Even as she worked to bond with her daughter through co-sleeping and baby-wearing, she struggled to understand what the baby needed."

    So it appears pathological narcissism may in fact impede maternal instincts.

    Replies: @Barnard

    Who would hire this woman as a midwife? What expectant parents would want her to play any part in the delivery of their child?

  112. @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus



    “In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.“
     
    That’s not truth, it’s your version of it.
     
    Corvi -- How can you bitch about Steve's comment? It's basically just an inane truism (which might be a valid criticism of it). The only way he could be wrong is if all women are identical.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Mr. Anon, @Mark G.

    If I were to say here in Steve’s comment section that you can use water to put out fires, Corvinus would probably demand that I produce the scientific studies proving that.

    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Mark G.

    Ha, there you go! I was not going to give my opinion about this guy, but you got it. Corvinus is not autistic. He's not stupid, either. He just wants to argue. I notice that it doesn't matter what Steve Sailer's OP is about, Corvinus will argue against it.

    He can argue day and night with fellow commenters, and I gave up early on, as he will never directly argue against your points. He will keep vaguely being against it until the cows come home.

    It takes all kinds, I guess. If there were an AI package one could pay for that would keep working to bring up the comment count, it's be named Corvinus.

  113. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Altai

    One of the things you simply can’t fake is the noise a group of young women will make upon seeing a particularly cute baby or animal.

    This is also most likely just Steve‘s conformity principle at work. Do young women from the Amazon rainforest make similar noises? Somehow I doubt it.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @S. Anonyia

    Older American women from more hardscrabble backgrounds don’t even make those noises. At my sister’s first baby shower my grandmother (in her 80s, raised on a farm) chided her and her friends for “baby talking” as she opened gifts, haha.

  114. @Achmed E. Newman
    @That Would Be Telling

    https://www.peakstupidity.com/images/post_2290A.jpg

    Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin, @LP5

    5th Wave Feminism – We’re not “women”. We’re women. (Insert photo of your favorite beautiful woman)

    That day probably isn’t too far off, as the pendulum will swing as it always does.

    Now, be a good child and call your mother.

  115. @Pat Kittle
    @Altai


    One of the things you simply can’t fake is the noise a group of young women will make upon seeing a particularly cute baby or animal.

    Men find babies and animals cute too but obviously it’s very different.
     
    I'm a guy who doesn't find human babies cute, but puppies & kittens? I do talk with them.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @AnonAnon

    It was much different after I had my own.

    Years back I had a girlfriend with kids already and she wanted more. I told her truthfully at the time, “I don’t think babies are cute but I think 4 or 5 year-olds are.” (She had one who WAS.) Man, that really pissed her off, and I had no idea why .. still don’t, exactly…

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Achmed E. Newman

    It was going out with a girl who had a toddler that made me realise it might be fun being a dad.

  116. @Mr. Anon

    Now that feminism, hoist by its own petard of social constructionism, is on the ropes and being pummeled by ruthlessly aggressive men in frocks wearing a simple chain of pearls,....
     
    By their feet, shall ye know them:

    https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/tooke-me-a-second-to-get-this/

    https://citizenfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/levine-feet.jpg

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy

  117. @Rob McX
    I bet this "woman" has sound maternal instincts.


    https://i.ibb.co/jDrDQRB/beauty.webp

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @HammerJack, @fish, @Daniel H, @Kolya Krassotkin, @Bill Jones, @quewin, @Prester John, @BB753, @FPD72, @Mr. Anon

    In Neil Simon’s Act II, the James Caan character describes a blind date as being a Star Wars character. So it is with this person, who looks like Jar Jar Binks’ lost sister.

    Do circus or carnival midways have freak shows any more? Probably not, due to PC, but even more importantly, you can’t charge for what is so readily available for free

    • Replies: @CharleszMartel
    @FPD72

    When I was a kid, the only place to see a tattooed lady was at the circus. Then came Cher, and it became trendy. Now it's ubiquitous, and disgusting, to me at any rate.

    I have actually told much younger women, (the few who are not tattoed, at least where one can see it in public, and who like to show off a lot of flesh)8(, how refreshing and nice it is to see a pretty girl that has no markings. Many now say 'Thanks- I don't like them". But they often add that their friends urge them to get them.

    I feel it's a female conspiracy a la "Bernice bobs her hair", the Fitzgerald story about female sexual competition. If you can get your competition to uglify themselves, you win.

  118. @Bill Jones
    @ScarletNumber


    It would be quite something if humans were the only mammals where the females of the species didn’t instinctively feel maternal instinct.
     
    There's a word for mammals with no maternal instinct: Extinct.

    That's the choice: Instinct or Extinct.

    Replies: @HallParvey, @Wade Hampton, @CharleszMartel

    That’s the choice: Instinct or Extinct.

    That is, quite possibly, the shortest, most perfect explanation of reality I have ever read. Brilliant.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @HallParvey

    I thought it was pretty good but let's not get carried away.
    And thanks.

  119. anonymous[396] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    NYT: "Maternal Instinct Is a Myth That Men Created"
     
    1973 is calling and wants its bullshit back.

    I'm not kind of social historian. Much less of feminist bullshit.

    But my recollection is by the late 60s, Jewish 2nd wave "oppression" feminism had a strong element of "women are just like men" right out of the Jewish anti-science blank slate tradition. The differences were all "socially constructed" by the evil (gentile) patriarchy. Women would be just as strong as men if they were allowed to do sports and run around and weren't starved at the dinner table by their fathers .... or something. (Feminism has never had to be consistent or even make sense.) You really did see stuff--routinely--that was that jaw droppingly stupid.

    But then ... it turned out women really were not interested in being coal miners or auto mechanices or carpenters or electricians or technicians or engineers ... really doing any of men's traditional productive labor at all. What women wanted was a good paycheck for something inside, comfortable, safe where they could talk to each other. Plus lots of women actual like having babies. And want men to pay for it--one way or another.

    So the pendulum swung over to "women are wonderful" and unique and "better than men" and the political demand was essentially that women deserved men to give them $$$--whether they did anything for men at all. If something men did had high status--say sports or suddenly tech--then women deserved their "fair share" of that. But mainly women deserved $$$ from men, just because they were women and "women are wonderful!"

    But now ... apparently with minoritarianism lifting up all the mentally ill LBGQWERTY defectives as sacred ... we're back to good old Jewish bio-denial--"gender" is socially constructed, "just a difference in plumbing"--again.


    Stupid.

    Honestly I just want out. Out of the madhouse. Millions of normal men and women know like being men and women. They know they are different--and like it! Appreciate their complementary--wonderfully complementary!--differences. And want to get together, do what comes naturally and raise families together.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Hypnotoad666, @anonymous

    Feminism has never had to be consistent or even make sense.

    That statement is indeed true.

    What I’m particularly enjoying though is that now that men are participating in women’s sports and beating them handily, they are whining about it. Isn’t that just a natural progression of the NOW movement or is it tit for tat (pun intended)?

  120. @Polistra
    @Altai

    Some women actually do hate babies, and children. I've known a few
    like that. The sad part is that many of them still get pregnant and have babies and children they won't like. It's one reason I grudgingly support abortion rights. Because unwanted children grow up to be criminals and sociopaths.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    I dated a smart pretty blond lawyer who said she never wanted kids because she recognized that she had no maternal instinct whatsoever. She did like to practice though.

  121. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Pat Kittle

    It was much different after I had my own.

    Years back I had a girlfriend with kids already and she wanted more. I told her truthfully at the time, "I don't think babies are cute but I think 4 or 5 year-olds are." (She had one who WAS.) Man, that really pissed her off, and I had no idea why .. still don't, exactly...

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    It was going out with a girl who had a toddler that made me realise it might be fun being a dad.

  122. Surprised that they don’t blame Christianity for promoting the maternal instinct.

    Traditional Christian art is dominated by tender images of Mary with baby Jesus. Starting in the 2nd Century beautiful paintings by renowned artists depict Mary gently cradling baby Jesus. Early Christianity glorified the mother of Christ and Christian art is filled with paintings and sculptures of the Madonna and baby Jesus to glorify motherhood … some Christian artwork includes Joseph, Mary and Jesus but few include Joseph alone with his son. The figure of the Madonna is one of the most frequently produced images in the history of art dating back to the second century. The Madonna was most commonly painted with Jesus on her lap…later depictions express a more tender intimate moment between mother and her child, with Christ sometimes suckling her breast. The most well known examples of the Madonna and child were completed by Raphael to celebrate the tender emotions between a young mother and her child….Raphael painted over 40 paintings of Madonna and Child for commercial sales from the years 1504 to 1520 AD. Maybe they should blame Raphael for promoting the maternal instinct 500 years ago.

    • Replies: @CharleszMartel
    @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco

    Another take on Madonna art....


    My Madonna

    BY ROBERT W. SERVICE

    I haled me a woman from the street,

       Shameless, but, oh, so fair!

    I bade her sit in the model’s seat

       And I painted her sitting there.


    I hid all trace of her heart unclean;

       I painted a babe at her breast;

    I painted her as she might have been

       If the Worst had been the Best.


    She laughed at my picture and went away.

       Then came, with a knowing nod,

    A connoisseur, and I heard him say;

       “’Tis Mary, the Mother of God.”


    So I painted a halo round her hair,

       And I sold her and took my fee,

    And she hangs in the church of Saint Hillaire,

       Where you and all may see.

  123. @Mr. Anon
    OT - The next front in WWD (World War Degeneracy) - beastiality:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/german-beastiality-buffs-demand-legalization-sex-animals

    What is it with the Germans anyway? Not all Germans are weirdos - most aren't. But it seems like the weirdest weirdos are German.

    Replies: @anonymous

    The question comes to mind, is there such a thing as a beast pimp?

    Then, also, is monkeypox the result of this version of perversion?

  124. @mmack
    “Men find babies and animals cute too but obviously it’s very different.”

    “God makes ‘em cute so you won’t kill ‘em.”

    Replies: @Dave from Oz, @Ancient Briton, @Rob

    Baby seals!

    • Replies: @mmack
    @Ancient Briton

    A seal 🦭 waddles into a bar and hops up on a barstool. The bartender sees him and walks down to take his order.

    "What'll ya have bud?" the bartender asks him
    "Anything but a Canadian Club." says the seal.

  125. @AnotherDad

    In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.

    But, women tend toward conformism — they just want to be like all the other women and all the other women to be like them — so they aren’t comfortable with this diversity among women.

    The not very maternal ones who want to be leaders of women have a simple all-purpose explanation for why other women don’t feel like them: they’ve been GASLIGHTED by men. It’s the fault of men that you like babies. Women are UNITED, except when they are brainwashed by the Patriarchy. Instead, you should be like me, your natural leader.

    That’s it. That’s feminism in a nutshell.
     
    Steve, this is really quite good.

    One thing a lot of people do not seem to understand--or at least give any thought to--is that we all inherit a lot of traits that were/are useful--at various times/places--for being a man and for being a woman. The specifically male adaptive traits were selected for primarily in your male ancestors (why they are your ancestors). And likewise the specifically female adaptive traits in your female ancestors.

    The XY/XX switching/non-switching and associated hormones wires you up as best it can for success. You get very few complete failures like the homosexuals. But we all have traits selected for success in women and in men.

    In the before time the reigning ideology was socially positive. And the leaders and "role models" were successful people. The women who were high status and "role models" that other women heard from and followed were women who themselves were successful at being wives and mothers for successful men.

    What feminism has wrought is that now women with fewer female adaptive genes/traits, who suck at being women--who are maladaptive--find cultural (academic, media) and government positions and lecture other women on how to be crappy women as well.

    Replies: @ThreeCranes, @AndrewR, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Esso, @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    “What feminism has wrought is that now women with fewer female adaptive genes/traits, who suck at being women–who are maladaptive–find cultural (academic, media) and government positions and lecture other women on how to be crappy women as well.”

    Edward Dutton’s spiteful mutants?

  126. @Poirot
    For those interested, Abigail Tucker -Ross Douthat’s wife- has a book out called ‘Mom Genes: Inside the New Science of Our Ancient Maternal Instinct’. She talks about it here: https://www.c-span.org/video/?513174-1/mom-genes

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel, @Art Deco

    Thousands of years of the accumulated wisdom of the ages tossed out because they were inconvenient to a long line of liberal reformers are now confirmed by honest scientists. Well, can’t have honest science then.

  127. @Pat Kittle
    @Altai


    One of the things you simply can’t fake is the noise a group of young women will make upon seeing a particularly cute baby or animal.

    Men find babies and animals cute too but obviously it’s very different.
     
    I'm a guy who doesn't find human babies cute, but puppies & kittens? I do talk with them.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @AnonAnon

    Though I did like playing with baby dolls as a girl I never really liked other people’s children. I still don’t. It’s much different when you have your own, though. It was like Christmas was every day when I had my first – I couldn’t wait to see him in his crib in the mornings and I felt that way for a solid year. Your own child is fascinating when they are little and the bonus is you get to mold them the way you want. It’s quite heady.

    As for maternal instinct, I remember being wheeled out of the hospital with my first in my arms when a pair of older ladies in the lobby tried to get closer to look at him, I practically growled at them. I did not want strangers close to him. Similar thing happened when I was walking in my neighborhood with him in a stroller and a stranger approached me. It was definitely hormones and didn’t happen with my other two.

  128. @Anonymous
    Are women evolved to be mothers? Obviously. But that doesn't mean they are evolved to be happy mothers. Evolution optimizes for reproductive success, not happiness. In many scenarios past and present, it is surely optimal for mothers to be worried, restless, "stressed out", etc.

    Replies: @Thea, @Recently Based

    Exactly, and this doesn’t just apply to motherhood.

    Human females are much higher than males in average trait neuroticism. This is almost certainly an evolutionary adaptation to be being, literally, the weaker sex.

  129. @AndrewR
    @Kylie

    Do you have a citation? I am all certain Obama didn't say that, although it does vaguely sound like something he'd say. But I do remember reading someone saying that.

    Replies: @Kylie

    Citation? It’s a paraphrase, not a quotation.

    I read it in Obama’s autobiography, Dreams from My Father in Chapter Fifteen (which Google search results hilariously refer to as a “Novel by Barack Obama”):

    “It wasn’t that Europe wasn’t beautiful; everything was just as I imagined it. It just wasn’t mine.”

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Kylie

    '“It wasn’t that Europe wasn’t beautiful; everything was just as I imagined it. It just wasn’t mine.”'

    There'd have been something wrong with how his mother raised him, then. After all, his father certainly didn't bring him up.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  130. @Cool Daddy Jimbo
    I will say one thing in her defense. Ever since she picked up her first doll she's been told motherhood is the greatest thing ever. Every commercial shows her that. All her friends go on rapturously about motherhood. Everywhere she looks, happy mothers with beautiful happy children. But it's not like that. It's dirty. It's smelly. It's loud. You can't hold a conversation with an 18-month-old. Stay-at-home mom is a pretty crappy job. So now she's thinking (maybe subconsciously), "Wtf is the matter with me? Was this whole thing a lie?" It's VERY hard on her.

    Funny thing is, you knew all this without even thinking about it. You knew a diaper smelled like shit, because ... there's shit in it. That never occurred to her until she was elbows-deep. You knew a two-year-old wouldn't do a thing you told him. Why would he? The entire world revolves around him. Never occurred to her. You take the whole thing with a smile and a grain of salt. She thinks something has gone horribly wrong.

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel, @Anonymous

    Mothers are now more isolated from other mothers than they were during the Baby Boom. Fewer mothers to spend time with and stuck with only the child or children all day for company.

  131. @Thea
    @Anonymous

    Maternal neuroticism saves many a life.


    The view of happiest as a valid life purpose or even the intent of nature originates from a strange display of wealth and comfort allowed by modern life. Leisure class indeed.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Maternal neuroticism saves many a life.

    Arguably does more harm than good in the rich safe modern world.

    Remember the ‘allergy moms’ who made school/sports/etc hell for normal parents and teachers? Thank god that seems to be over.

  132. @mmack
    “Men find babies and animals cute too but obviously it’s very different.”

    “God makes ‘em cute so you won’t kill ‘em.”

    Replies: @Dave from Oz, @Ancient Briton, @Rob

    This is actually probably true both ways. Adults are selected on thinking kids are cute enough to not kill (their own) kids, but parents also have the choice of ditching the kid entirely. This is bad for the parent (the kid is 0.5 genetically them) under lots of circumstances, but beneficial under others. Being abandoned is much worse for the kid (he is 100% genetically himself and only .5 w each parent)

    So, evolution has likely crafted kids faces to be cute by disproportionately culling un-cute kids.

    • Replies: @CharleszMartel
    @Rob

    I have read that the reason babies look similar (As Winston Churchill reputedly said when told a baby looked like him- " Madam, ALL babies look like me.") is due to male uncertainty about paternity. The women all stand around telling the purported Father how much the baby looks like him

  133. I can recall driving through Yosemite Valley in the 1960s when I was about seven. We see a huge number of cars pulled over on one side of the road. We follow the motorists into the woods, where about 100 people have encircled a cute baby bear cub all by his lonesome. My dad grabs me by the collar and drags me back to the car and we drive away.

    I say:

    Viking Lady named Karin Elizabeth Dreijer — she’s known as Fever Ray — has a song called Seven, and it is pleasant and unabashedly feminine and female, and the electronics she uses and her otherwordly Viking Lady voice gives the song some boom boom boom when she is just talking about gabbing about dishwater tablets, love, illness and heaven with her lady pal who she has known since she was seven.

    The guy who scratched out the Texas gal’s triumph over the Spaniards in the Elizabeth movie wrote the TV show Vikings that used Fever Ray’s If I Had A Heart as its intro song.

    The only Feminism I follow is Third and Nine Sixteenth Wave Feminism because at least those gals can fix a vehicle or a bike.

    Triangle Walks is about this Viking Lady walking her baby:

    Vikings TV show intro song by Fever Ray Viking Lady:

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Charles Pewitt


    Viking Lady named Karin Elizabeth Dreijer —
    she’s known as Fever Ray
     
    Mr. Pewitt, don't forget her collaborations with Röyksopp!

    She has a cameo in the video for “What Else Is There?”, chomping on an apple at 2:00.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADBKdSCbmiM


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1BLzf4kWFM

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/why-tom-wolfes-hunt-for-the-great-white-defendant-is-a-stereotype-but-not-a-trope/#comment-3091720 (#19)

    , @the one they call Desanex
    @Charles Pewitt

    The guy who did the album-cover art art for “Fever Ray” (Martin Ander or “Mander”) is more talented than she is; too bad he had to play a subordinate role to her (no album, no album cover). This poster looks like a collaboration between Rick Griffin and Kim Deitch:
    https://downloads-pearljam-com.s3.amazonaws.com/img/show-poster/1656905627539d3f5b20f714e52cfb6778818879fd.png

  134. @That Would Be Telling
    @AnotherDad


    But my recollection is by the late 60s, Jewish 2nd wave “oppression” feminism had a strong element of “women are just like men” right out of the Jewish anti-science blank slate tradition. The differences were all “socially constructed” by the evil (gentile) patriarchy.
     
    Ha ha, not at all to the last sentence except in maybe what they said or implied. Per Kevin MacDonald, patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US. The first wave was suffragettes, who succeeded in their Official goal at the very beginning of the 1920s, the decade when Team Boas captured that part of the social sciences with their blank slate fraud.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @AnotherDad

    Ha ha, not at all to the last sentence except in maybe what they said or implied. Per Kevin MacDonald, patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US. The first wave was suffragettes, who succeeded in their Official goal at the very beginning of the 1920s, the decade when Team Boas captured that part of the social sciences with their blank slate fraud.

    TWBT, don’t really get your thrust here?

    My simplified take is 1st wave was Protestant Church lady feminism. Women should be educated, vote, have 2.5 well-scrubbed, well-educated, well-behaved kids. Men should be sober, not beat their wives or kids, listen to their wives. (I.e. none of that drunken Irish family nonsense.) Like most of early 20th century progressivism its thrust was “everyone should behave/live like a middle class WASP”.

    2nd wave was Jewish women minoritarianizing feminism–jamming/recruiting women into their anti-white-gentile oppression pyramid. Oppressed/virtuous women. Oppressive/evil (white gentile) men. (Ironic as NW-Euro Christian society was pretty much the most open, least sexist and oppressive in the world. Less “sexist” and “oppressive” than was Jewish society with its Semitic roots.)

    The “men are oppressing us!” is mostly what we got. But I remember a whole lot of bio-denial–“men and women are the same, just different plumbing”–right on up to the really crazy stuff, which was basically cribbed from Stephen J. Gould style Jewish racial bio-denial, just the obvious nuttiness amped up by applying to men and women and their obvious sexual dimorphism.

    ~~

    I haven’t read any Kevin McDonald though I know he’s got a Jewish critique–I gather from the title “Culture of Critique” of their quibbling critique of gentiles to further glomming onto gentile society.

    I’m not clear how “patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US”? The only thing I can think of is that Jewish women–like black women–might have been told early on that their feminist concerns took a back seat to solidarity in the ethnic struggle against the goyim. Still “The Feminine Mystique” published in 1963. That’s giving women only a decade to become dissatisfied with the new suburban post-War prosperity, with all its labor saving devices and significantly reduced household workload.

    I actually think minoritarianizing women–energizing normal dissatisfactions of life (not every marriage is happy, not everyone makes “enough” money, not every family gels, not everyone is fulfilled) into a tool to pry white women away from white men–was the most important win for the minoritarian cause. Balkanization is bad for a society. So balkanizing your enemy … right in their own home, family was a huge win.

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    @AnotherDad

    The beta male is the natural and eternal enemy of women; caveat when there is enough money, safety, and prosperity around to make that possible.

    It was natural for the innate HATE HATE HATE of the beta male to surface once prosperity had enough of a run to make it an affordable hate.

    The beta male wants security, monogamy, predictability. While women want/need/value unpredictability, lots of drama in relationships, battling other women for the one hot guy, basically an Alpha / many women society.

    The goals of most women and most men are mutually hostile and mutually exclusive. This makes feminism or something like it a constant occurrence in any society that has a certain level of technological complexity and thus margin of prosperity. This can be seen in Coastal China, in South Korea, in Japan, in parts of the Muslim world, where Jews are basically non existent in power, influence, and cultural power. And you see the same sort of thing.

    , @That Would Be Telling
    @AnotherDad


    TWBT, don’t really get your thrust here?
     
    Just a theory that the Jewish Second Wave Feminists were responding to the Jewish patriarchy they most directly knew.

    Looking more closely at what you said you weren't implying which patriarchy they were responding to, just the one they blamed. Although I wonder how many if any blamed their own tribe; normally that's beyond the pale but some of these women were completely crazy.


    I haven’t read any Kevin McDonald though I know he’s got a Jewish critique–I gather from the title “Culture of Critique” of their quibbling critique of gentiles to further glomming onto gentile society.

    I’m not clear how “patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US”?
     

    Ah, that's why the citation would not resonate with you, there I'm trusting MacDonald as a scholar. However the work describes much more sinister activities, including the one which turned both him and myself into anti-Semites, the essential Jewish role in achieving the 1965 immigration act, AKA the Hart–Celler Act, the former Irish along with some other supporters like Teddy Kennedy. Celler was a Jew who'd been working on this since the early-mid 1920s clampdown, was first elected as a House member in 1922. Says something he was the Chair of the House Judiciary Comittee 1955-1973, per Wikipedia and my knowledge of the general history he also played a big role in the Gun Control Act of 1968. Also note:

    In June 1972, Celler (then the House of Representatives' most senior member) unexpectedly lost the Democratic primary to a somewhat more liberal Democrat, attorney (((Elizabeth Holtzman))), who eked out a 635-vote victory over Celler, based chiefly on Celler's opposition to feminism and the Equal Rights Amendment.
     
    If you're interested in the Jewish Question The Culture of Critique is essential reading, and is available here on Unz.com for on-line reading after Amazon canceled it and the previous middle book of his trilogy, There is however a danger you'll read one or both prefaces and start with the beginning of the trilogy, which is quite rewarding but of course a significant undertaking.

    Your final conclusion is very possibly correct, there is after all nothing more fundamental than the family. Although it was also done across generations with old age welfare programs.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @AnotherDad


    .... was the most important win for the minoritarian cause. Balkanization is bad for a society. So balkanizing your enemy … right in their own home, family was a huge win.
     
    Destruction of the nuclear family is indeed one of the biggest wins of those who want to destroy traditional society. It's one of the first things that Communists do, AnotherDad. If they don't directly break up families by sending them all different places to work for the Soviet or the Chinese pig farms, they make the State so big that it becomes the ultimate Mother figure, and the real family can't compete.

    Who are these people who brought all this stuff up and pushed it in America? I'm sure you've read of the Frankfurt School. It was a much longer road for America, as it couldn't be accomplished directly. Americans had small government for a long time, but, also, they've always owned a lot of guns. It had to be done indirectly. These people are Communists, plain and simple.
    , @BB753
    @AnotherDad

    First wave feminism was anything but church-going ladies. Actually, its female leadership was made out of crazy, spoiled, cheating, occultist upper-class proto-hippies.

    https://www.amazon.com/Occult-Feminism-Secret-History-Liberation/dp/B09NGXZKHB

  135. @AnotherDad
    @That Would Be Telling


    Ha ha, not at all to the last sentence except in maybe what they said or implied. Per Kevin MacDonald, patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US. The first wave was suffragettes, who succeeded in their Official goal at the very beginning of the 1920s, the decade when Team Boas captured that part of the social sciences with their blank slate fraud.
     
    TWBT, don't really get your thrust here?

    My simplified take is 1st wave was Protestant Church lady feminism. Women should be educated, vote, have 2.5 well-scrubbed, well-educated, well-behaved kids. Men should be sober, not beat their wives or kids, listen to their wives. (I.e. none of that drunken Irish family nonsense.) Like most of early 20th century progressivism its thrust was "everyone should behave/live like a middle class WASP".

    2nd wave was Jewish women minoritarianizing feminism--jamming/recruiting women into their anti-white-gentile oppression pyramid. Oppressed/virtuous women. Oppressive/evil (white gentile) men. (Ironic as NW-Euro Christian society was pretty much the most open, least sexist and oppressive in the world. Less "sexist" and "oppressive" than was Jewish society with its Semitic roots.)

    The "men are oppressing us!" is mostly what we got. But I remember a whole lot of bio-denial--"men and women are the same, just different plumbing"--right on up to the really crazy stuff, which was basically cribbed from Stephen J. Gould style Jewish racial bio-denial, just the obvious nuttiness amped up by applying to men and women and their obvious sexual dimorphism.

    ~~

    I haven't read any Kevin McDonald though I know he's got a Jewish critique--I gather from the title "Culture of Critique" of their quibbling critique of gentiles to further glomming onto gentile society.

    I'm not clear how "patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US"? The only thing I can think of is that Jewish women--like black women--might have been told early on that their feminist concerns took a back seat to solidarity in the ethnic struggle against the goyim. Still "The Feminine Mystique" published in 1963. That's giving women only a decade to become dissatisfied with the new suburban post-War prosperity, with all its labor saving devices and significantly reduced household workload.

    I actually think minoritarianizing women--energizing normal dissatisfactions of life (not every marriage is happy, not everyone makes "enough" money, not every family gels, not everyone is fulfilled) into a tool to pry white women away from white men--was the most important win for the minoritarian cause. Balkanization is bad for a society. So balkanizing your enemy ... right in their own home, family was a huge win.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @That Would Be Telling, @Achmed E. Newman, @BB753

    The beta male is the natural and eternal enemy of women; caveat when there is enough money, safety, and prosperity around to make that possible.

    It was natural for the innate HATE HATE HATE of the beta male to surface once prosperity had enough of a run to make it an affordable hate.

    The beta male wants security, monogamy, predictability. While women want/need/value unpredictability, lots of drama in relationships, battling other women for the one hot guy, basically an Alpha / many women society.

    The goals of most women and most men are mutually hostile and mutually exclusive. This makes feminism or something like it a constant occurrence in any society that has a certain level of technological complexity and thus margin of prosperity. This can be seen in Coastal China, in South Korea, in Japan, in parts of the Muslim world, where Jews are basically non existent in power, influence, and cultural power. And you see the same sort of thing.

  136. I’ll be sure to explain that to the mama bear when I happen to walk between her and her cubs.

  137. @Dave from Oz
    @mmack


    “God makes ‘em cute so you won’t kill ‘em.”
     
    Veal.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    And that’s why they tell you not to eat babies.

    Humanity wiped out 2.1 lunches.

  138. @Zero Philosopher
    Women love their kids, sure...if they are attractive and as long as dad is Mr.Chad Jock, square-jawed 6'3 hedge fund guy or real state developer making 8 figures a year. If dad is Mr.Dweeb, who is honest and decent but is 5'6 and ugly and makes 5 figures tops a year working as an I.T profesional, or Joe Blow, the dumb loser plummer making minimum wage on a good day, then watch the love turn into seething rage towards the kids and not-too-veiled nagging and contempt for the dad.

    Plenty of children are not only neglected, but abused by their mothers. Women take out the anger that they feel over not having gotten the Prince Charming that they were promised to by Disney films when they were teens on the unatractive children that they had with the inferior men they had to "settle" for before their eggs rotted.

    You can tell what a woman thinks about her husband by how she treats her kids. If she has contempt for him, she will abuse the kids for two reasons. First to see if she can infuriate him and bring the "alpha" in him. It's a last-ditch effort to not admit that she bred with a loser with loser genes. Secondly, it's her way to show her anger towards his inferior genes, as the kids are the manifestation of those genes. This is especially true for sons, as she sees the son as a "mini-me" version of dad to be tortured and abused. When it comes to her daughters, she will merely neglect and ignore them. But when it comes to the son, she will take out all her anger on the boy. When a woman sees her man as Mr.Fantastic and she thinks she gor "The One", she will treat her son like a Princeling, will spoil and pamper him silly, the classic "momma's adorable little prince". But when she sees dad not as a King but as a vassal, she will treat her son likewise not as a prince but as a vassal. Women are *ruthless* in their evaluation and treatment of men, not sparing even their own male children if they think that they are genetically iuferior. Men don't really understand how awfully bad it is.

    As for this story, the characters are from NYC. As someone that actually lived in NYC for 6 years and knows the liberal upper-middle class very well, I can tell you that upper-middle class liberal women, contrary to what you might think, are actually fantastic mothers, extremely doting and dedicated to their kids. They just don't have many, and when they do it's often at an older age. They will usually have just one pup when they are already like 35 years old, and fuss and dote on them like crazy. They are not very fertile people. That is, upper middle-class liberal professionals.

    Replies: @usNthem, @Mr. Anon

    While your other points are probably valid, the snark towards Joe Blow the dumb loser “plummer” making minimum wage on a good day is a complete airball. Who the hell are you going to call when the sewer backs up? I guarantee you it won’t be a minimum wage plumber.

  139. A quick Google of the anecdotal “mother’ referenced at the beginning of the story, Mimi Niles, reveals much more than the author leads (or misleads) the gullible NYT reader to conjure in their minds. See Niles’ Twitter:

    Yes, an elitist Indian lesbian, who’s trained in “critical feminist theory” and profiled with this gem quote from her Assistant Professor bio at NYU

    “Her work explores the potential of integrated models of midwifery care in creating health equity in historically disenfranchised communities. She is trained in utilizing critical feminist theory, as theorized by Black and brown feminist scholars, and qualitative research methods as a means to implement policy and programming rooted in intersectionality and anti-racist frameworks.”

    https://nursing.nyu.edu/directory/faculty/mimi-niles

    Yup, a real everyday representative sample of a woman missing innate nurturing skills! Does it even dawn on the author that this woman is a zany leftist zealot feminist lesbian and of course would have psychological and anxiety issues with being a “mom”? Good grief! Talk about living in an echo chamber feedback loop.

    Then Conoboy goes on to state in her essay:

    “New research on the parental brain makes clear that the idea of maternal instinct as something innate, automatic and distinctly female is a myth, one that has stuck despite the best efforts of feminists to debunk it from the moment it entered public discourse.”

    What research exactly? Who is the researcher or where was it published? No citation is given – of course – but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was authored by Niles herself, who’s described as a “researcher”.

    Conoboy’s essay then goes on to include references to immigrants, persons of color, gays, trans, and the obligatory “white supremacist”.

    One wonders if this is just woke vernacular-dropping that’s added in to fluff up her narrative to receive the requisite creds from the NYT editors to run this insane nonsense.

    It’s pretty amazing to think that David Reich, the esteemed geneticist, who wrote an Op-Ed in the NYT back in 2018 regarding the release of his new book, “Who We Are and How We Got Here”, included this innocuous statement in his column “it is simply no longer possible to ignore average genetic differences among ‘races’” – and this one statement gets him in very hot water with the Times’ readers and the Times then goes on to publish a petition (protest) letter signed by 67 “academics” condemning Reich (a geneticist!) for stating that race is real and genetic!

    Or the Times apologizing to its readers for the running an Op-Ed authored by sitting U.S. Senator, Tom Cotton, back in 2020 during the George Floyd Racial Reckoning – and then going even further to fire the editor who allowed Cotton’s Op-ed to run!

    We live in dangerous times to be a critical thinker…

    • Thanks: Polistra
  140. Nah. Sometimes unwanted babies grow up to be much better than their bad mothers. I’m acquainted with a woman who’s alcoholic mother mistreated her and her siblings, had no time for them and was quick with a slap or the strap. She and her sisters are the most benevolent, Christian people I know. Always willing to lend a hand, they even took turns with their evil mother at the end of her life with love and gentleness.

    • Agree: Kylie
  141. @Rob McX
    I bet this "woman" has sound maternal instincts.


    https://i.ibb.co/jDrDQRB/beauty.webp

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @HammerJack, @fish, @Daniel H, @Kolya Krassotkin, @Bill Jones, @quewin, @Prester John, @BB753, @FPD72, @Mr. Anon

    That looks like something that pops out of a darkened recess at Disney’s Haunted Mansion ride.

  142. @Poirot
    For those interested, Abigail Tucker -Ross Douthat’s wife- has a book out called ‘Mom Genes: Inside the New Science of Our Ancient Maternal Instinct’. She talks about it here: https://www.c-span.org/video/?513174-1/mom-genes

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel, @Art Deco

    Zero Philosopher assures me that Abigail Tucker despises, abuses, and neglects Ross Douthat and the children he sired.

    • Troll: Polistra
  143. @AnotherDad
    @That Would Be Telling


    Ha ha, not at all to the last sentence except in maybe what they said or implied. Per Kevin MacDonald, patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US. The first wave was suffragettes, who succeeded in their Official goal at the very beginning of the 1920s, the decade when Team Boas captured that part of the social sciences with their blank slate fraud.
     
    TWBT, don't really get your thrust here?

    My simplified take is 1st wave was Protestant Church lady feminism. Women should be educated, vote, have 2.5 well-scrubbed, well-educated, well-behaved kids. Men should be sober, not beat their wives or kids, listen to their wives. (I.e. none of that drunken Irish family nonsense.) Like most of early 20th century progressivism its thrust was "everyone should behave/live like a middle class WASP".

    2nd wave was Jewish women minoritarianizing feminism--jamming/recruiting women into their anti-white-gentile oppression pyramid. Oppressed/virtuous women. Oppressive/evil (white gentile) men. (Ironic as NW-Euro Christian society was pretty much the most open, least sexist and oppressive in the world. Less "sexist" and "oppressive" than was Jewish society with its Semitic roots.)

    The "men are oppressing us!" is mostly what we got. But I remember a whole lot of bio-denial--"men and women are the same, just different plumbing"--right on up to the really crazy stuff, which was basically cribbed from Stephen J. Gould style Jewish racial bio-denial, just the obvious nuttiness amped up by applying to men and women and their obvious sexual dimorphism.

    ~~

    I haven't read any Kevin McDonald though I know he's got a Jewish critique--I gather from the title "Culture of Critique" of their quibbling critique of gentiles to further glomming onto gentile society.

    I'm not clear how "patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US"? The only thing I can think of is that Jewish women--like black women--might have been told early on that their feminist concerns took a back seat to solidarity in the ethnic struggle against the goyim. Still "The Feminine Mystique" published in 1963. That's giving women only a decade to become dissatisfied with the new suburban post-War prosperity, with all its labor saving devices and significantly reduced household workload.

    I actually think minoritarianizing women--energizing normal dissatisfactions of life (not every marriage is happy, not everyone makes "enough" money, not every family gels, not everyone is fulfilled) into a tool to pry white women away from white men--was the most important win for the minoritarian cause. Balkanization is bad for a society. So balkanizing your enemy ... right in their own home, family was a huge win.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @That Would Be Telling, @Achmed E. Newman, @BB753

    TWBT, don’t really get your thrust here?

    Just a theory that the Jewish Second Wave Feminists were responding to the Jewish patriarchy they most directly knew.

    Looking more closely at what you said you weren’t implying which patriarchy they were responding to, just the one they blamed. Although I wonder how many if any blamed their own tribe; normally that’s beyond the pale but some of these women were completely crazy.

    I haven’t read any Kevin McDonald though I know he’s got a Jewish critique–I gather from the title “Culture of Critique” of their quibbling critique of gentiles to further glomming onto gentile society.

    I’m not clear how “patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US”?

    Ah, that’s why the citation would not resonate with you, there I’m trusting MacDonald as a scholar. However the work describes much more sinister activities, including the one which turned both him and myself into anti-Semites, the essential Jewish role in achieving the 1965 immigration act, AKA the Hart–Celler Act, the former Irish along with some other supporters like Teddy Kennedy. Celler was a Jew who’d been working on this since the early-mid 1920s clampdown, was first elected as a House member in 1922. Says something he was the Chair of the House Judiciary Comittee 1955-1973, per Wikipedia and my knowledge of the general history he also played a big role in the Gun Control Act of 1968. Also note:

    In June 1972, Celler (then the House of Representatives’ most senior member) unexpectedly lost the Democratic primary to a somewhat more liberal Democrat, attorney (((Elizabeth Holtzman))), who eked out a 635-vote victory over Celler, based chiefly on Celler’s opposition to feminism and the Equal Rights Amendment.

    If you’re interested in the Jewish Question The Culture of Critique is essential reading, and is available here on Unz.com for on-line reading after Amazon canceled it and the previous middle book of his trilogy, There is however a danger you’ll read one or both prefaces and start with the beginning of the trilogy, which is quite rewarding but of course a significant undertaking.

    Your final conclusion is very possibly correct, there is after all nothing more fundamental than the family. Although it was also done across generations with old age welfare programs.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @That Would Be Telling


    there is after all nothing more fundamental than the family
     
    This is a rather vague proposition. What do you mean by it? How would you explain it to childless adults?
  144. @Travis
    Feminism is anti-female. Feminism mocks and attacks feminine women for their femininity. Being feminine is the source of women's greatest power, their ability to attract a male provider and a father for their children.

    Feminism which is pro-female would praise motherhood and honor feminine women for achieving success in feminine pursuits like knitting, crocheting, cooking, keeping a clean home and knowing how to wear makeup and do their hair, staying attractive for their spouse etc....

    Feminists mock and deride feminine pursuits and goals such as becoming a housewife, motherhood, and participating in beauty pageants...Instead Feminists praise masculine women for doing masculine activities and achieving success in masculine careers and pursuits. By praising masculine women feminists are the real sexists, as they consider only masculine activities to be of value. If Feminists were trying to improve the lives of females they would not be promoting masculine activities for women but would be promoting the values of feminine pursuits and praising the most feminine females for their femininity instead of praising masculine females for their manly achievements...

    Replies: @SFG, @Art Deco

    Disagree. As far as I can see, women of accomplishment adhere only to a qualified version of feminism and soi-disant feminists admire not women of accomplishment but women who are difficult and obnoxious. Clara Barton, Estée Lauder, Clare Boothe Luce, Mildred McAfree, Barbara McClintock, and Dorothy Kilgallan were not feminist icons. Sylvia Plath was.

  145. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    "Conaboy’s NYT op-ed piece heavily criticized online praise of “khazar milkers”"

    Can you quote it? Don't want to sign into NYT.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Can you quote it? Don’t want to sign into NYT.

    It probably isn’t there. I have been known to joke around from time to time. 🙂

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/who-belongs/#comment-1483894 (#9)

  146. @Charles Pewitt
    I can recall driving through Yosemite Valley in the 1960s when I was about seven. We see a huge number of cars pulled over on one side of the road. We follow the motorists into the woods, where about 100 people have encircled a cute baby bear cub all by his lonesome. My dad grabs me by the collar and drags me back to the car and we drive away.

    I say:

    Viking Lady named Karin Elizabeth Dreijer -- she's known as Fever Ray -- has a song called Seven, and it is pleasant and unabashedly feminine and female, and the electronics she uses and her otherwordly Viking Lady voice gives the song some boom boom boom when she is just talking about gabbing about dishwater tablets, love, illness and heaven with her lady pal who she has known since she was seven.

    The guy who scratched out the Texas gal's triumph over the Spaniards in the Elizabeth movie wrote the TV show Vikings that used Fever Ray's If I Had A Heart as its intro song.

    The only Feminism I follow is Third and Nine Sixteenth Wave Feminism because at least those gals can fix a vehicle or a bike.

    https://youtu.be/aX07gCjT7dA

    Triangle Walks is about this Viking Lady walking her baby:

    https://youtu.be/WmjAyES5VJM

    Vikings TV show intro song by Fever Ray Viking Lady:

    https://youtu.be/Ay21xQjhfD0

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @the one they call Desanex

    Viking Lady named Karin Elizabeth Dreijer —
    she’s known as Fever Ray

    Mr. Pewitt, don’t forget her collaborations with Röyksopp!

    She has a cameo in the video for “What Else Is There?”, chomping on an apple at 2:00.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/why-tom-wolfes-hunt-for-the-great-white-defendant-is-a-stereotype-but-not-a-trope/#comment-3091720 (#19)

  147. @Anon

    The not very maternal ones who want to be leaders of women
     
    Most feminist thought leaders have been Jewish lesbians, not low-maternal-instinct heterosexuals.

    Replies: @SFG, @Art Deco

    Eight women ran the National Organization for Women from 1966 to 2001. Five of them had children and were married for an extended period of time during the course of their lives. Two of the three remaining (including the one who was an admitted bisexual) were not Jewish. The only Jewish childless woman among them was Karen Decrow. She was married twice, not a self-declared lesbian, and irritated her successors at NOW by promoting joint custody arrangements.

  148. NYT. Shocked they promulgated this.

  149. @Kylie
    @AndrewR

    Citation? It's a paraphrase, not a quotation.

    I read it in Obama's autobiography, Dreams from My Father in Chapter Fifteen (which Google search results hilariously refer to as a "Novel by Barack Obama"):

    "It wasn’t that Europe wasn’t beautiful; everything was just as I imagined it. It just wasn’t mine."

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘“It wasn’t that Europe wasn’t beautiful; everything was just as I imagined it. It just wasn’t mine.”’

    There’d have been something wrong with how his mother raised him, then. After all, his father certainly didn’t bring him up.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Colin Wright

    Knowing what I know about his mom, I don't blame daddy for fleeing. But he shouldn't have stuck his Richard in crazy to begin with.

    Junior also lacked good taste in women, especially in contrast to Dubya (driving skills notwithstanding)

  150. @Corvinus
    “In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.“

    That’s not truth, it’s your version of it. It would be nice for you to supply even a rudimentary form of support for your contention, or even modestly attempt to critically address the findings from the article.

    Maybe you can take time from feeding your dog to address the findings here.

    https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/maternal-instinct#instinct-vs-drive

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Hypnotoad666, @Alden, @AndrewR, @William Badwhite, @Mandrill with a hand drill

    Maybe you can take time from feeding your dog to address the findings here.

    Your need for attention is cringe-worthy.

  151. @Zero Philosopher
    Women love their kids, sure...if they are attractive and as long as dad is Mr.Chad Jock, square-jawed 6'3 hedge fund guy or real state developer making 8 figures a year. If dad is Mr.Dweeb, who is honest and decent but is 5'6 and ugly and makes 5 figures tops a year working as an I.T profesional, or Joe Blow, the dumb loser plummer making minimum wage on a good day, then watch the love turn into seething rage towards the kids and not-too-veiled nagging and contempt for the dad.

    Plenty of children are not only neglected, but abused by their mothers. Women take out the anger that they feel over not having gotten the Prince Charming that they were promised to by Disney films when they were teens on the unatractive children that they had with the inferior men they had to "settle" for before their eggs rotted.

    You can tell what a woman thinks about her husband by how she treats her kids. If she has contempt for him, she will abuse the kids for two reasons. First to see if she can infuriate him and bring the "alpha" in him. It's a last-ditch effort to not admit that she bred with a loser with loser genes. Secondly, it's her way to show her anger towards his inferior genes, as the kids are the manifestation of those genes. This is especially true for sons, as she sees the son as a "mini-me" version of dad to be tortured and abused. When it comes to her daughters, she will merely neglect and ignore them. But when it comes to the son, she will take out all her anger on the boy. When a woman sees her man as Mr.Fantastic and she thinks she gor "The One", she will treat her son like a Princeling, will spoil and pamper him silly, the classic "momma's adorable little prince". But when she sees dad not as a King but as a vassal, she will treat her son likewise not as a prince but as a vassal. Women are *ruthless* in their evaluation and treatment of men, not sparing even their own male children if they think that they are genetically iuferior. Men don't really understand how awfully bad it is.

    As for this story, the characters are from NYC. As someone that actually lived in NYC for 6 years and knows the liberal upper-middle class very well, I can tell you that upper-middle class liberal women, contrary to what you might think, are actually fantastic mothers, extremely doting and dedicated to their kids. They just don't have many, and when they do it's often at an older age. They will usually have just one pup when they are already like 35 years old, and fuss and dote on them like crazy. They are not very fertile people. That is, upper middle-class liberal professionals.

    Replies: @usNthem, @Mr. Anon

    I don’t think your observations hold as a general rule, but they likely do in some cases. In particular it would explain the still rare but increasing phenomenon of women who force gender transitions on their sons. It’s the ultimate FU to their despised hubby or ex-hubby: I hate you so much I’m going to turn your son into a girl.

    • Replies: @Zero Philosopher
    @Mr. Anon

    I think my observations hold true in general, as the divorce rate hovers around 50%(give or take) and polled women constantly blame lack of "excitement" in their marriages as the culprit. Lack of "excitement" = average non-sexy husband, who is not a top male in the Society and works some routine drab job with mid-level salary, instead of a classically masculine role where he bosses other men around, or at least a cool creative job like her gay friends have, like being a fashion designer, etc. The most constant observations made about women by matchmaking firms is how absurdly high women's standards are for men in *both* looks and socieconomic status. Anything other than a ultimillionaire that looks like Henry Cavill is considered "settling" for most modern women. They want a man that is 9/10 or higher on *all* positive attributes(height, facial symmetry, gym body, wealth, family name, etc). Ouf ot the World's 2.5 billion adult men, there must be less than 100 that fulfill all the absurd list of demands. The only man I can think of that had all those traits to that degree at once was the late John Kennedy Jr, and he is dead.

    Women constantly emasculate men that they see as unattractive because they don't want thier genes, but they see them as a threat because men are physically stronger than they are, etc, and they fear being raped or coerced into marriage with an "inferior" man and bear his seed. Notice how women egg on and encourage aggressive and promiscuous behavior in highly desirable men, but constantly nag and shame average men into behaving themselves especially sexually They demand committment and long courting rituals from average men, but will look at a pictue of Chad on Tinder or his video on Tik tok and put out that same night without asking any sort of commitment.

    As for sex-transition, while most women wouldn't go as far as castrating their sons, many do like to put them in dresses, and make them play with dolls, etc. Some do it for the same reasons why some men force their daughters to get into sports: they wanted a son but didn't get one, so turn your daughter into a son instead. Women some times do the same. But in a lot of cases, they do it out of revenge. It's their way os saying:"I will turn your son into the subservient sucker to women that I wanted you to be."

  152. @HallParvey
    @Bill Jones


    That’s the choice: Instinct or Extinct.
     
    That is, quite possibly, the shortest, most perfect explanation of reality I have ever read. Brilliant.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    I thought it was pretty good but let’s not get carried away.
    And thanks.

  153. “My father didn’t know that mother bears’ maternal instinct was just a male conspiracy.”

    Yeah, you might be able to blither-blather the modern Femtard out of her instincts, but you can’t fool mother nature – or mama bear.

  154. @Thomas
    One thing that probably makes a big difference in how maternal a mother can feel that wasn't addressed openly in this opinion piece but was sort of hinted at: the involvement and presence of the father. It doesn't surprise me that single mothers or primary breadwinner mothers wouldn't have much time or energy to feel particularly maternal or to enjoy motherhood. Feminism has long been known as an ideology that feeds on its own failures: its contribution to female unhappiness produces ever more unhappy women to recruit as feminists. It's a pretty direct route from undermining or eliminating the role of fathers and promoting single motherhood to then complaining that mothers don't feel very maternal.

    Replies: @AKAHorace, @Keypusher

    My mother got dumped with four young children post-sexual liberation but pre-feminism. It did not affect her love for us at all, though it did make her life very hard.

  155. @Mark G.
    @Hypnotoad666

    If I were to say here in Steve's comment section that you can use water to put out fires, Corvinus would probably demand that I produce the scientific studies proving that.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Ha, there you go! I was not going to give my opinion about this guy, but you got it. Corvinus is not autistic. He’s not stupid, either. He just wants to argue. I notice that it doesn’t matter what Steve Sailer’s OP is about, Corvinus will argue against it.

    He can argue day and night with fellow commenters, and I gave up early on, as he will never directly argue against your points. He will keep vaguely being against it until the cows come home.

    It takes all kinds, I guess. If there were an AI package one could pay for that would keep working to bring up the comment count, it’s be named Corvinus.

    • Agree: Mark G.
    • Thanks: YetAnotherAnon
  156. @AnotherDad
    @That Would Be Telling


    Ha ha, not at all to the last sentence except in maybe what they said or implied. Per Kevin MacDonald, patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US. The first wave was suffragettes, who succeeded in their Official goal at the very beginning of the 1920s, the decade when Team Boas captured that part of the social sciences with their blank slate fraud.
     
    TWBT, don't really get your thrust here?

    My simplified take is 1st wave was Protestant Church lady feminism. Women should be educated, vote, have 2.5 well-scrubbed, well-educated, well-behaved kids. Men should be sober, not beat their wives or kids, listen to their wives. (I.e. none of that drunken Irish family nonsense.) Like most of early 20th century progressivism its thrust was "everyone should behave/live like a middle class WASP".

    2nd wave was Jewish women minoritarianizing feminism--jamming/recruiting women into their anti-white-gentile oppression pyramid. Oppressed/virtuous women. Oppressive/evil (white gentile) men. (Ironic as NW-Euro Christian society was pretty much the most open, least sexist and oppressive in the world. Less "sexist" and "oppressive" than was Jewish society with its Semitic roots.)

    The "men are oppressing us!" is mostly what we got. But I remember a whole lot of bio-denial--"men and women are the same, just different plumbing"--right on up to the really crazy stuff, which was basically cribbed from Stephen J. Gould style Jewish racial bio-denial, just the obvious nuttiness amped up by applying to men and women and their obvious sexual dimorphism.

    ~~

    I haven't read any Kevin McDonald though I know he's got a Jewish critique--I gather from the title "Culture of Critique" of their quibbling critique of gentiles to further glomming onto gentile society.

    I'm not clear how "patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US"? The only thing I can think of is that Jewish women--like black women--might have been told early on that their feminist concerns took a back seat to solidarity in the ethnic struggle against the goyim. Still "The Feminine Mystique" published in 1963. That's giving women only a decade to become dissatisfied with the new suburban post-War prosperity, with all its labor saving devices and significantly reduced household workload.

    I actually think minoritarianizing women--energizing normal dissatisfactions of life (not every marriage is happy, not everyone makes "enough" money, not every family gels, not everyone is fulfilled) into a tool to pry white women away from white men--was the most important win for the minoritarian cause. Balkanization is bad for a society. So balkanizing your enemy ... right in their own home, family was a huge win.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @That Would Be Telling, @Achmed E. Newman, @BB753

    …. was the most important win for the minoritarian cause. Balkanization is bad for a society. So balkanizing your enemy … right in their own home, family was a huge win.

    Destruction of the nuclear family is indeed one of the biggest wins of those who want to destroy traditional society. It’s one of the first things that Communists do, AnotherDad. If they don’t directly break up families by sending them all different places to work for the Soviet or the Chinese pig farms, they make the State so big that it becomes the ultimate Mother figure, and the real family can’t compete.

    Who are these people who brought all this stuff up and pushed it in America? I’m sure you’ve read of the Frankfurt School. It was a much longer road for America, as it couldn’t be accomplished directly. Americans had small government for a long time, but, also, they’ve always owned a lot of guns. It had to be done indirectly. These people are Communists, plain and simple.

  157. @Dave from Oz
    @SFG

    The link between jews and feminism is that circumcision makes a man terrible in bed.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @CharleszMartel

    The link between jews and feminism is that circumcision makes a man terrible in bed.

    Please tell us how you know this.

    • Replies: @Hereward the Woke
    @Jim Don Bob

    This seems historically questionable since most American man in the second half of the 20th century were cut.

  158. @Charles Pewitt
    I can recall driving through Yosemite Valley in the 1960s when I was about seven. We see a huge number of cars pulled over on one side of the road. We follow the motorists into the woods, where about 100 people have encircled a cute baby bear cub all by his lonesome. My dad grabs me by the collar and drags me back to the car and we drive away.

    I say:

    Viking Lady named Karin Elizabeth Dreijer -- she's known as Fever Ray -- has a song called Seven, and it is pleasant and unabashedly feminine and female, and the electronics she uses and her otherwordly Viking Lady voice gives the song some boom boom boom when she is just talking about gabbing about dishwater tablets, love, illness and heaven with her lady pal who she has known since she was seven.

    The guy who scratched out the Texas gal's triumph over the Spaniards in the Elizabeth movie wrote the TV show Vikings that used Fever Ray's If I Had A Heart as its intro song.

    The only Feminism I follow is Third and Nine Sixteenth Wave Feminism because at least those gals can fix a vehicle or a bike.

    https://youtu.be/aX07gCjT7dA

    Triangle Walks is about this Viking Lady walking her baby:

    https://youtu.be/WmjAyES5VJM

    Vikings TV show intro song by Fever Ray Viking Lady:

    https://youtu.be/Ay21xQjhfD0

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @the one they call Desanex

    The guy who did the album-cover art art for “Fever Ray” (Martin Ander or “Mander”) is more talented than she is; too bad he had to play a subordinate role to her (no album, no album cover). This poster looks like a collaboration between Rick Griffin and Kim Deitch:

  159. @Mr. Anon
    @Zero Philosopher

    I don't think your observations hold as a general rule, but they likely do in some cases. In particular it would explain the still rare but increasing phenomenon of women who force gender transitions on their sons. It's the ultimate FU to their despised hubby or ex-hubby: I hate you so much I'm going to turn your son into a girl.

    Replies: @Zero Philosopher

    I think my observations hold true in general, as the divorce rate hovers around 50%(give or take) and polled women constantly blame lack of “excitement” in their marriages as the culprit. Lack of “excitement” = average non-sexy husband, who is not a top male in the Society and works some routine drab job with mid-level salary, instead of a classically masculine role where he bosses other men around, or at least a cool creative job like her gay friends have, like being a fashion designer, etc. The most constant observations made about women by matchmaking firms is how absurdly high women’s standards are for men in *both* looks and socieconomic status. Anything other than a ultimillionaire that looks like Henry Cavill is considered “settling” for most modern women. They want a man that is 9/10 or higher on *all* positive attributes(height, facial symmetry, gym body, wealth, family name, etc). Ouf ot the World’s 2.5 billion adult men, there must be less than 100 that fulfill all the absurd list of demands. The only man I can think of that had all those traits to that degree at once was the late John Kennedy Jr, and he is dead.

    Women constantly emasculate men that they see as unattractive because they don’t want thier genes, but they see them as a threat because men are physically stronger than they are, etc, and they fear being raped or coerced into marriage with an “inferior” man and bear his seed. Notice how women egg on and encourage aggressive and promiscuous behavior in highly desirable men, but constantly nag and shame average men into behaving themselves especially sexually They demand committment and long courting rituals from average men, but will look at a pictue of Chad on Tinder or his video on Tik tok and put out that same night without asking any sort of commitment.

    As for sex-transition, while most women wouldn’t go as far as castrating their sons, many do like to put them in dresses, and make them play with dolls, etc. Some do it for the same reasons why some men force their daughters to get into sports: they wanted a son but didn’t get one, so turn your daughter into a son instead. Women some times do the same. But in a lot of cases, they do it out of revenge. It’s their way os saying:”I will turn your son into the subservient sucker to women that I wanted you to be.”

  160. I’m certain that the nesting instinct is real. For all five of our children, my wife deep-cleaned the house the day before she gave birth.

    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @jamie b.

    Cut back on the cleaning products, or you might end up with six.

  161. @Kylie
    "She[Ms. Niles] was not feeling fabulous in new motherhood. She was exhausted and anxious...she struggled to understand what the baby needed.

    But Ms. Niles soon discovered that there was little room for that struggle within the prevailing narrative of motherhood...

    All around her swirled near-rapturous descriptions of the joys of new motherhood. They all celebrated the same thing — the woman who is able to instantly intuit and satisfy her baby’s every need, and to do it all on her own.

    Ms. Niles, who is now a midwife and researcher, wondered what was going on...what she took issue with was something more fundamental, about how our culture approaches motherhood. Where did the idea that motherhood is hard-wired for women come from?"

    So even though many if not most women were enjoying new motherhood, she wasn't. That didn't mean something was wrong with her or different about her, no, it meant the entire prevailing narrative must be wrong! The idea that motherhood is hardwired for women just as their reproductive systems are designed for motherhood couldn't be right! The fact that she was an anxious not a rapturous mother must be the fault of men!

    Talk about malignant narcissism. She's actually more narcissistic than Obama. When he failed to enjoy European culture, he wrote that it was beautiful, it just wasn't his. This woman won't even acknowledge that feeling maternal in a positive way is natural and innate because that wasn't her experience or as they say nowadays, her truth. I hope her kid grows up to write a tell-all book about her shortcomings as a mother.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Bardon Kaldian, @CharleszMartel

    C-p….One woman wrote it as a comment.

    I’m not wild about other people’s kids. Sure, I like some of them alright, but that’s about it. It’s totally different with my own.

    From the moment I got the positive pregnancy test result and knew there was a baby growing inside my body, I loved them. The feeling intensified when I could feel the baby moving. With both pregnancies, I willingly underwent bed rest and godawful medical procedures to halt preterm labor, because I loved the child and wanted her, and for the second pregnancy him, to make it into this world as close to full term and as healthy as possible.

    There’s no adequate way to describe the outpouring of love I felt when my children were born. They’re worth every long hour spent walking and singing to a colicky baby, every sleepless night rocking a sick child, and all the extra work that children bring. They bring more joy than worry, and more love than work. I wouldn’t ever go back to life without my children, even if I could. They’re worth everything. I’d die for them if it ever became necessary.

    Yes, women are made to be mothers. Some women are defective and don’t make good mothers. For the rest of us, motherhood is an incredible completion, an ultimate meaning in a meaningless world.

    • Agree: jsm
  162. @jamie b.
    I'm certain that the nesting instinct is real. For all five of our children, my wife deep-cleaned the house the day before she gave birth.

    Replies: @Ralph L

    Cut back on the cleaning products, or you might end up with six.

  163. anon[415] • Disclaimer says:

    #153
    “It’s the ultimate FU to their despised hubby or ex-hubby: I hate you so much I’m going to turn your son into a girl.”

    Castration, but with the feminine touch: nonviolent with the added bonus of being trendy, which gives the mother a bit more of cover as to her true motives. So much in society is that way, now that we’ve become more feminine and sensitive, ie. passive-aggressive. What is abortion but mass murder disguised as “reproductive rights.”

  164. @Mark G.
    Both women and men have a protective instinct. The female protective instinct focuses mostly on children while the male instinct focuses on both women and children. This is why men do things like stay on the Titanic while women and children are getting into the lifeboats.

    Women would traditionally look for a mate who they were sexually attracted to and who they felt had enough of a protective instinct to stick around and kind of take care of them and their children together. The welfare state, though, changed the type of calculation females did. They could just pick the most sexually attractive male while having the government take over the protector and provider role. Any genes that cause males to be protective are probably slowly being bred out of the population since men who carry those genes are less likely to be picked by women now to be fathers. Society will increasingly become like an inner-city ghetto in which good looking but irresponsible men are baby daddies to multiple women. Inner city ghettoes don't generate any taxes but suck up a lot of welfare money so if the entire society becomes like that it will lead to a civilizational collapse.

    Replies: @CCG, @Anonymous

    Society will increasingly become like an inner-city ghetto in which good looking but irresponsible men are baby daddies to multiple women.

    So, Sub-Saharan Africa based on R-selection? Then there’s a need to restrict child benefits to married couples only.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @CCG

    I've been saying for a long time that married couples with income under $500,000 where both mother and father have university degrees should get generous welfare, free daycare and preschool, pay no income tax, etc. University degree being a proxy for IQ (government can't legally force the entire population to take IQ tests).

  165. @SFG
    @Anon

    My dad said the feminist movement was split between angry straight women and lesbians (this being back in the 80s he would have meant the second wave of the 70s). Hm, Mom was Jewish, maybe that’s why he left that last part out. (She wasn’t a feminist though. They’re still married.)

    Quite a few of the big names there were, in fact, heterosexual and Jewish-I am thinking of Gloria Steinem, Betty Friedan, and Andrea Dworkin (go read about the unfortunate guy she married). Friedan fell off the reservation, argued for a second movement to liberate men, and disappeared from view.

    . (There’s always been a contingent that mostly just wants to sleep around-Ellen Willis and Susie Bright come to mind. The problem, as Steve has said, is female conformity-if you’re sex positive, OTHER WOMEN have to be that way too, and same for the prudish ‘men suck’ types. Among men, hundreds of years ago you had Casanovas and monks, and neither extreme seemed to get too riled up at the other.)

    So at that point I would say it was Jewish straight women and lesbians of every ethnicity.

    In the third wave you see non Jewish women like Amanda Marcotte and Jessica Valente. Jewish women are still well represented though. Jill Filipovic and Rebecca Traister come to mind. The fourth wave pro trans types don’t seem quite so disproportionately Jewish, though probably still more than 2 percent, or even the 12-25 percent figure I’ve seen for *conservative* pundits (loosely defined).

    Replies: @Dave from Oz, @Polistra

    The fourth wave pro trans types don’t seem quite so disproportionately Jewish, though probably still more than 2 percent

    ROFL

  166. @YetAnotherAnon
    One of the saddest sounds in the British countryside is at the time of year, in midsummer or late summer depending on latitude, when they separate the mother sheep from their lambs, many of whom will end up in kebabs or lamb chops.

    The mothers all cry for their babies, and they don't stop - it can go on all day and all night for a couple of days. You're walking in the beautiful Yorkshire or Derbyshire Dales, the sun is shining, and you can hear the ovine misery for miles and miles - it really carries.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc9FAuCI658

    Here's a cow whose calf needs help

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp3Y_ccHKeA

    Replies: @Polistra, @Mandrill with a hand drill

    Yeah, so maybe it shouldn’t be done? There’s a special place in hell for people who slaughter baby animals, and for those who eat them.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Polistra


    Yeah, so maybe it shouldn’t be done? There’s a special place in hell for people who slaughter baby animals, and for those who eat them.
     
    You mean I'm going to Hell on account of the Wiener Schnitzel and Veal Piccata?

    Well, it was worth it.

    Replies: @Polistra

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Polistra

    I take your point, but it's oblique to my argument that the maternal instinct is real, very strong, and common to pretty much all mammals and birds (watch a bird flying to and fro, bringing food to a hungry brood in the nest, again, and again, and again...).

  167. @Steve Sailer
    @Badger Down

    I can recall driving through Yosemite Valley in the 1960s when I was about seven. We see a huge number of cars pulled over on one side of the road. We follow the motorists into the woods, where about 100 people have encircled a cute baby bear cub all by his lonesome. My dad grabs me by the collar and drags me back to the car and we drive away. My father didn't know that mother bears' maternal instinct was a male conspiracy.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Badger Down

    A hundred idiots. Some things never change.

  168. When women are placed in positions of power and influence, they treat every complaint like a crying baby. Once the crying baby is satisfied and quiet again, that is the height of morality and justice.

    Never mind that civilization is being deconstructed, that society is being ripped apart, that actual children are being led down path of sterilization and surgical butchery, that the useful citizens of their own countries are being displaced by lawless, unassimilable, rabidly religious zealots. Never mind that dangerous criminals are being released straight back out on the streets after having committed a violent crime.

    I see third-wave feminism as the start of the insanity we are dealing with in the Current Year. How ironic that the maternal instinct is the creator of all this ruin.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @personfellowindividual

    True. Anyone who wants to wreck a society or civilisation just has to misdirect the natural instincts of otherwise healthy people. You don't have to create monsters from scratch, just manipulate normal people.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @personfellowindividual


    When women are placed in positions of power and influence, they treat every complaint like a crying baby. Once the crying baby is satisfied and quiet again, that is the height of morality and justice.
     
    Right, PFI. It reminds me of the Herr Merkel's invitation of millions of Moslem men into Europe due to a picture of one dead baby on the beach. (Said baby was dead due to the stupidity of his father and the lack of serious immigration enforcement anyway - it's not like a German killed him).

    Women think they have more compassion, but it's only short-term. The men they deride for not feeling bad and DOING something, right now, are the ones who have compassion in the long-term, as they see what may come later after this short-term compassion. The whole Refugee Resettlement Racket in the US is an example.
  169. @Colin Wright
    @Kylie

    '“It wasn’t that Europe wasn’t beautiful; everything was just as I imagined it. It just wasn’t mine.”'

    There'd have been something wrong with how his mother raised him, then. After all, his father certainly didn't bring him up.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Knowing what I know about his mom, I don’t blame daddy for fleeing. But he shouldn’t have stuck his Richard in crazy to begin with.

    Junior also lacked good taste in women, especially in contrast to Dubya (driving skills notwithstanding)

  170. @personfellowindividual
    When women are placed in positions of power and influence, they treat every complaint like a crying baby. Once the crying baby is satisfied and quiet again, that is the height of morality and justice.

    Never mind that civilization is being deconstructed, that society is being ripped apart, that actual children are being led down path of sterilization and surgical butchery, that the useful citizens of their own countries are being displaced by lawless, unassimilable, rabidly religious zealots. Never mind that dangerous criminals are being released straight back out on the streets after having committed a violent crime.

    I see third-wave feminism as the start of the insanity we are dealing with in the Current Year. How ironic that the maternal instinct is the creator of all this ruin.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Achmed E. Newman

    True. Anyone who wants to wreck a society or civilisation just has to misdirect the natural instincts of otherwise healthy people. You don’t have to create monsters from scratch, just manipulate normal people.

  171. Perhaps the myth is that all women possess this “instinct” to the same degree. I recall once being told by a lady (by whose deep green eyes I was entirely captivated) that not all women are interested in being breeders. Fortunately, most nevertheless enjoy the activity that was done solely for reproduction back when we were covered with hair and lived outdoors. A good many commentators here seem to be seething with misplaced rage that they haven’t had the success in that department that most normal men can claim. Well, I suppose you could just blame the Jews and call it a day, right.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Observator

    "most nevertheless enjoy the activity that was done solely for reproduction"

    But...they don't generally go for it the same way men do, or we'd ALL have HIV and monkeypox.

  172. @AnotherDad
    @That Would Be Telling


    Ha ha, not at all to the last sentence except in maybe what they said or implied. Per Kevin MacDonald, patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US. The first wave was suffragettes, who succeeded in their Official goal at the very beginning of the 1920s, the decade when Team Boas captured that part of the social sciences with their blank slate fraud.
     
    TWBT, don't really get your thrust here?

    My simplified take is 1st wave was Protestant Church lady feminism. Women should be educated, vote, have 2.5 well-scrubbed, well-educated, well-behaved kids. Men should be sober, not beat their wives or kids, listen to their wives. (I.e. none of that drunken Irish family nonsense.) Like most of early 20th century progressivism its thrust was "everyone should behave/live like a middle class WASP".

    2nd wave was Jewish women minoritarianizing feminism--jamming/recruiting women into their anti-white-gentile oppression pyramid. Oppressed/virtuous women. Oppressive/evil (white gentile) men. (Ironic as NW-Euro Christian society was pretty much the most open, least sexist and oppressive in the world. Less "sexist" and "oppressive" than was Jewish society with its Semitic roots.)

    The "men are oppressing us!" is mostly what we got. But I remember a whole lot of bio-denial--"men and women are the same, just different plumbing"--right on up to the really crazy stuff, which was basically cribbed from Stephen J. Gould style Jewish racial bio-denial, just the obvious nuttiness amped up by applying to men and women and their obvious sexual dimorphism.

    ~~

    I haven't read any Kevin McDonald though I know he's got a Jewish critique--I gather from the title "Culture of Critique" of their quibbling critique of gentiles to further glomming onto gentile society.

    I'm not clear how "patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US"? The only thing I can think of is that Jewish women--like black women--might have been told early on that their feminist concerns took a back seat to solidarity in the ethnic struggle against the goyim. Still "The Feminine Mystique" published in 1963. That's giving women only a decade to become dissatisfied with the new suburban post-War prosperity, with all its labor saving devices and significantly reduced household workload.

    I actually think minoritarianizing women--energizing normal dissatisfactions of life (not every marriage is happy, not everyone makes "enough" money, not every family gels, not everyone is fulfilled) into a tool to pry white women away from white men--was the most important win for the minoritarian cause. Balkanization is bad for a society. So balkanizing your enemy ... right in their own home, family was a huge win.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @That Would Be Telling, @Achmed E. Newman, @BB753

    First wave feminism was anything but church-going ladies. Actually, its female leadership was made out of crazy, spoiled, cheating, occultist upper-class proto-hippies.

  173. @Ancient Briton
    @mmack

    Baby seals!

    Replies: @mmack

    A seal 🦭 waddles into a bar and hops up on a barstool. The bartender sees him and walks down to take his order.

    “What’ll ya have bud?” the bartender asks him
    “Anything but a Canadian Club.” says the seal.

    • LOL: Nicholas Stix
  174. @J1234
    This essay kind of reminds me of the old late night talk show interviews of movie stars who'd recently had children. "What's it like being a new parent?" the host would ask his typically idiotic celebrity guest, who would answer at length as if the everyday people in the audience watching the interview had no idea what it was like to be a parent. The world probably revolves around liberal pundits even more than it does movie stars, so until an elite leftist/feminist interprets parenthood (and invents some great new "insight" about it that they can sell to the world through a book, etc.) parenthood hasn't truly been experienced. All I can say is a feel sorry for any kid who has a mom like that.

    Replies: @animalogic

    “All I can say is a feel sorry for any kid who has a mom like that.”
    Hopefully they have a loving nanny.
    Yes, it’s not the answer but it’s better than nothing.

  175. @YetAnotherAnon
    One of the saddest sounds in the British countryside is at the time of year, in midsummer or late summer depending on latitude, when they separate the mother sheep from their lambs, many of whom will end up in kebabs or lamb chops.

    The mothers all cry for their babies, and they don't stop - it can go on all day and all night for a couple of days. You're walking in the beautiful Yorkshire or Derbyshire Dales, the sun is shining, and you can hear the ovine misery for miles and miles - it really carries.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc9FAuCI658

    Here's a cow whose calf needs help

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp3Y_ccHKeA

    Replies: @Polistra, @Mandrill with a hand drill

    Wait a sec are you trying to cause me moral terror again

  176. @Corvinus
    “In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.“

    That’s not truth, it’s your version of it. It would be nice for you to supply even a rudimentary form of support for your contention, or even modestly attempt to critically address the findings from the article.

    Maybe you can take time from feeding your dog to address the findings here.

    https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/maternal-instinct#instinct-vs-drive

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Hypnotoad666, @Alden, @AndrewR, @William Badwhite, @Mandrill with a hand drill

    The first thing to address is the social forces which deliberately destroy maternal instinct. This is done by denying and severing the physical bond. In late 90s America, a woman had her baby stolen from her by CPS because she asked the internet if it was normal to feel arousal while breastfeeding. It took a year of volunteer legal effort and expert testimony to secure the return of the baby.

    Due to fear of child sexual abuse, all matters relating to arousal and children is forbidden, and so the physical basis of the maternal bond is forbidden. Add in stressors which produce depression and we have disaster. Children are meant to breastfeed until 4-5 years old. It is an indispensable tool in comforting stressed children. Same as all primates, and really all creatures which have an external development phase.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Mandrill with a hand drill

    Children are meant to breastfeed until 4-5 years old.

    I knew a mother who breast fed her daughter until age 4. Only child very much loved by mother and father. At age 30, she's a complete mess.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  177. @Polistra
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Yeah, so maybe it shouldn't be done? There's a special place in hell for people who slaughter baby animals, and for those who eat them.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @YetAnotherAnon

    Yeah, so maybe it shouldn’t be done? There’s a special place in hell for people who slaughter baby animals, and for those who eat them.

    You mean I’m going to Hell on account of the Wiener Schnitzel and Veal Piccata?

    Well, it was worth it.

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @Mr. Anon

    Were all going to hell, pardner.
    You just get a special place.
    Probably a skybox, idk.

  178. @Observator
    Perhaps the myth is that all women possess this “instinct” to the same degree. I recall once being told by a lady (by whose deep green eyes I was entirely captivated) that not all women are interested in being breeders. Fortunately, most nevertheless enjoy the activity that was done solely for reproduction back when we were covered with hair and lived outdoors. A good many commentators here seem to be seething with misplaced rage that they haven’t had the success in that department that most normal men can claim. Well, I suppose you could just blame the Jews and call it a day, right.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    “most nevertheless enjoy the activity that was done solely for reproduction”

    But…they don’t generally go for it the same way men do, or we’d ALL have HIV and monkeypox.

  179. @Polistra
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Yeah, so maybe it shouldn't be done? There's a special place in hell for people who slaughter baby animals, and for those who eat them.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @YetAnotherAnon

    I take your point, but it’s oblique to my argument that the maternal instinct is real, very strong, and common to pretty much all mammals and birds (watch a bird flying to and fro, bringing food to a hungry brood in the nest, again, and again, and again…).

  180. @Jim Don Bob
    @Dave from Oz


    The link between jews and feminism is that circumcision makes a man terrible in bed.
     
    Please tell us how you know this.

    Replies: @Hereward the Woke

    This seems historically questionable since most American man in the second half of the 20th century were cut.

  181. Anon[526] • Disclaimer says:

    A lot of women do in fact have a rough time of it when they have young infants. That’s not because of lack of maternal instinct though it’s because of the intensity of maternal instinct. Intense anxiety about the baby’s well being plus an inability to sleep because the baby keeps you up often does a number on new mothers and is crazy-making

  182. @Mandrill with a hand drill
    @Corvinus

    The first thing to address is the social forces which deliberately destroy maternal instinct. This is done by denying and severing the physical bond. In late 90s America, a woman had her baby stolen from her by CPS because she asked the internet if it was normal to feel arousal while breastfeeding. It took a year of volunteer legal effort and expert testimony to secure the return of the baby.

    Due to fear of child sexual abuse, all matters relating to arousal and children is forbidden, and so the physical basis of the maternal bond is forbidden. Add in stressors which produce depression and we have disaster. Children are meant to breastfeed until 4-5 years old. It is an indispensable tool in comforting stressed children. Same as all primates, and really all creatures which have an external development phase.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Children are meant to breastfeed until 4-5 years old.

    I knew a mother who breast fed her daughter until age 4. Only child very much loved by mother and father. At age 30, she’s a complete mess.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Art Deco


    I knew a mother who breast fed her daughter until age 4. Only child very much loved by mother and father. At age 30, she’s a complete mess.
     
    Was it the breastfeeding that did it?
  183. @Kolya Krassotkin
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Remake "Sex and the City" and replace the lead women characters with trannies.

    Replies: @Eddie the swarthy rat cellar, @quewin, @CharleszMartel

    It’s already been done, a few years back
    See these:

    There are actually lots of them by this guy and others, this is a good starting point.

    Just remember,

    “That’s a MAN, baby!!”

    • LOL: Kolya Krassotkin
  184. @Kylie
    "She[Ms. Niles] was not feeling fabulous in new motherhood. She was exhausted and anxious...she struggled to understand what the baby needed.

    But Ms. Niles soon discovered that there was little room for that struggle within the prevailing narrative of motherhood...

    All around her swirled near-rapturous descriptions of the joys of new motherhood. They all celebrated the same thing — the woman who is able to instantly intuit and satisfy her baby’s every need, and to do it all on her own.

    Ms. Niles, who is now a midwife and researcher, wondered what was going on...what she took issue with was something more fundamental, about how our culture approaches motherhood. Where did the idea that motherhood is hard-wired for women come from?"

    So even though many if not most women were enjoying new motherhood, she wasn't. That didn't mean something was wrong with her or different about her, no, it meant the entire prevailing narrative must be wrong! The idea that motherhood is hardwired for women just as their reproductive systems are designed for motherhood couldn't be right! The fact that she was an anxious not a rapturous mother must be the fault of men!

    Talk about malignant narcissism. She's actually more narcissistic than Obama. When he failed to enjoy European culture, he wrote that it was beautiful, it just wasn't his. This woman won't even acknowledge that feeling maternal in a positive way is natural and innate because that wasn't her experience or as they say nowadays, her truth. I hope her kid grows up to write a tell-all book about her shortcomings as a mother.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Bardon Kaldian, @CharleszMartel

    Obams ( PBUH, cue choir of angels and find him a halo) was riffing on James Baldwin’s “Stranger in the Village”:

    “These people cannot be, from the point of view of power, strangers anywhere in the world; they have made the modern world, in effect, even if they do not know it. The most illiterate among them is related, in a way I am not, to Dante, Shakespeare, Michelangelo, Aeschylus, Da Vinci, Rembrandt, and Racine; the cathedral at Chartres says something to them which it cannot say to me, as indeed would New York’s Empire State Building, should anyone here ever see it. Out of their hymns and dances come Beethoven and Bach. Go back a few centuries and they are in their full glory—but I am in Africa, watching the conquerors arrive.”

    Very similar to Joe Sobran’s “The White Man stands astride the world as a Collosus” paragraph. Too busy to look it up.

    I’m surprised no-one’s gone through Obama’s “Pipe Dreams from my No- Good Father” to look for these references and possible plagiarism, but I guess they’re all too busy trying to parse the Steele Dossier.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @CharleszMartel

    "Obams ( PBUH, cue choir of angels and find him a halo) was riffing on James Baldwin’s “Stranger in the Village”:"

    Thanks. I didn't know that. I avoid black authors whenever possible because blackety-black-black bores the hell out of me. I actually didn't read Obama's book. I just looked up the relevant quotation in a free online copy.

  185. Here’s Chelsea! A solid scolding New Puritan feminist 4.

  186. @CharleszMartel
    @Kylie

    Obams ( PBUH, cue choir of angels and find him a halo) was riffing on James Baldwin's "Stranger in the Village":

    "These people cannot be, from the point of view of power, strangers anywhere in the world; they have made the modern world, in effect, even if they do not know it. The most illiterate among them is related, in a way I am not, to Dante, Shakespeare, Michelangelo, Aeschylus, Da Vinci, Rembrandt, and Racine; the cathedral at Chartres says something to them which it cannot say to me, as indeed would New York’s Empire State Building, should anyone here ever see it. Out of their hymns and dances come Beethoven and Bach. Go back a few centuries and they are in their full glory—but I am in Africa, watching the conquerors arrive."

    Very similar to Joe Sobran's "The White Man stands astride the world as a Collosus" paragraph. Too busy to look it up.

    I'm surprised no-one's gone through Obama's "Pipe Dreams from my No- Good Father" to look for these references and possible plagiarism, but I guess they're all too busy trying to parse the Steele Dossier.

    Replies: @Kylie

    “Obams ( PBUH, cue choir of angels and find him a halo) was riffing on James Baldwin’s “Stranger in the Village”:”

    Thanks. I didn’t know that. I avoid black authors whenever possible because blackety-black-black bores the hell out of me. I actually didn’t read Obama’s book. I just looked up the relevant quotation in a free online copy.

  187. @Bill Jones
    @ScarletNumber


    It would be quite something if humans were the only mammals where the females of the species didn’t instinctively feel maternal instinct.
     
    There's a word for mammals with no maternal instinct: Extinct.

    That's the choice: Instinct or Extinct.

    Replies: @HallParvey, @Wade Hampton, @CharleszMartel

    I’ve often said that if human females had the same priorities as human males, the species would have gone extinct millennia ago.

    The standard response of human males when confronted with an infant is “What is all this yelling about? And the smell is nasty. I need a beer. Let’s go to the local bar.”

    The standard response of human females is somewhat different. They find the smelly, noisy little homunculi unfathomable attractive.

  188. @personfellowindividual
    When women are placed in positions of power and influence, they treat every complaint like a crying baby. Once the crying baby is satisfied and quiet again, that is the height of morality and justice.

    Never mind that civilization is being deconstructed, that society is being ripped apart, that actual children are being led down path of sterilization and surgical butchery, that the useful citizens of their own countries are being displaced by lawless, unassimilable, rabidly religious zealots. Never mind that dangerous criminals are being released straight back out on the streets after having committed a violent crime.

    I see third-wave feminism as the start of the insanity we are dealing with in the Current Year. How ironic that the maternal instinct is the creator of all this ruin.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Achmed E. Newman

    When women are placed in positions of power and influence, they treat every complaint like a crying baby. Once the crying baby is satisfied and quiet again, that is the height of morality and justice.

    Right, PFI. It reminds me of the Herr Merkel’s invitation of millions of Moslem men into Europe due to a picture of one dead baby on the beach. (Said baby was dead due to the stupidity of his father and the lack of serious immigration enforcement anyway – it’s not like a German killed him).

    Women think they have more compassion, but it’s only short-term. The men they deride for not feeling bad and DOING something, right now, are the ones who have compassion in the long-term, as they see what may come later after this short-term compassion. The whole Refugee Resettlement Racket in the US is an example.

  189. “In truth, the basic reality is that women differ across a probability distribution, with most quite maternal, some extremely maternal, and some not terribly maternal.

    “But, women tend toward conformism — they just want to be like all the other women and all the other women to be like them — so they aren’t comfortable with this diversity among women.

    “The not very maternal ones who want to be leaders of women have a simple all-purpose explanation for why other women don’t feel like them: they’ve been GASLIGHTED by men. It’s the fault of men that you like babies. Women are UNITED, except when they are brainwashed by the Patriarchy. Instead, you should be like me, your natural leader.

    “That’s it. That’s feminism in a nutshell.”

  190. @Mr. Anon
    @Polistra


    Yeah, so maybe it shouldn’t be done? There’s a special place in hell for people who slaughter baby animals, and for those who eat them.
     
    You mean I'm going to Hell on account of the Wiener Schnitzel and Veal Piccata?

    Well, it was worth it.

    Replies: @Polistra

    Were all going to hell, pardner.
    You just get a special place.
    Probably a skybox, idk.

  191. @Art Deco
    @Mandrill with a hand drill

    Children are meant to breastfeed until 4-5 years old.

    I knew a mother who breast fed her daughter until age 4. Only child very much loved by mother and father. At age 30, she's a complete mess.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I knew a mother who breast fed her daughter until age 4. Only child very much loved by mother and father. At age 30, she’s a complete mess.

    Was it the breastfeeding that did it?

  192. @That Would Be Telling
    @AnotherDad


    TWBT, don’t really get your thrust here?
     
    Just a theory that the Jewish Second Wave Feminists were responding to the Jewish patriarchy they most directly knew.

    Looking more closely at what you said you weren't implying which patriarchy they were responding to, just the one they blamed. Although I wonder how many if any blamed their own tribe; normally that's beyond the pale but some of these women were completely crazy.


    I haven’t read any Kevin McDonald though I know he’s got a Jewish critique–I gather from the title “Culture of Critique” of their quibbling critique of gentiles to further glomming onto gentile society.

    I’m not clear how “patriarchal male Jews significantly delayed the second wave in the US”?
     

    Ah, that's why the citation would not resonate with you, there I'm trusting MacDonald as a scholar. However the work describes much more sinister activities, including the one which turned both him and myself into anti-Semites, the essential Jewish role in achieving the 1965 immigration act, AKA the Hart–Celler Act, the former Irish along with some other supporters like Teddy Kennedy. Celler was a Jew who'd been working on this since the early-mid 1920s clampdown, was first elected as a House member in 1922. Says something he was the Chair of the House Judiciary Comittee 1955-1973, per Wikipedia and my knowledge of the general history he also played a big role in the Gun Control Act of 1968. Also note:

    In June 1972, Celler (then the House of Representatives' most senior member) unexpectedly lost the Democratic primary to a somewhat more liberal Democrat, attorney (((Elizabeth Holtzman))), who eked out a 635-vote victory over Celler, based chiefly on Celler's opposition to feminism and the Equal Rights Amendment.
     
    If you're interested in the Jewish Question The Culture of Critique is essential reading, and is available here on Unz.com for on-line reading after Amazon canceled it and the previous middle book of his trilogy, There is however a danger you'll read one or both prefaces and start with the beginning of the trilogy, which is quite rewarding but of course a significant undertaking.

    Your final conclusion is very possibly correct, there is after all nothing more fundamental than the family. Although it was also done across generations with old age welfare programs.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    there is after all nothing more fundamental than the family

    This is a rather vague proposition. What do you mean by it? How would you explain it to childless adults?

  193. @Bill Jones
    @ScarletNumber


    It would be quite something if humans were the only mammals where the females of the species didn’t instinctively feel maternal instinct.
     
    There's a word for mammals with no maternal instinct: Extinct.

    That's the choice: Instinct or Extinct.

    Replies: @HallParvey, @Wade Hampton, @CharleszMartel

    Kind of like the choice we have in the West:

    Integration or Civilization.

    Can’t have both, although we haven’t learned that yet.

    But more are learning this every day.

    We will.

  194. @That Would Be Telling
    @Dave from Oz


    “conservative” means voting for what you are used to. Those old hippies continue to support policies that demonstrably destroy societies, because they have always belived what they believe now. That’s being conservative.
     
    It's a simple extension of Robert Conquest's first Law of Politics, "Everyone is conservative about what he knows best" that these "hippies" are used to having enough food to eat and not freezing in the winter (and more recently good enough AC in hot parts of the country). Reliable electric power without rolling blackouts as well.

    Replies: @CharleszMartel

    Kind of like the choice we have in the West:

    Integration or Civilization.

    Can’t have both, although we haven’t learned that yet.

    But more are learning this every day.

    We will.

  195. @Dave from Oz
    @TyRade


    the end result is a much older and therefore conservative population…who will vote more reliably against these cockamamy perverse and species-harming notions.
     
    "conservative" means voting for what you are used to. Those old hippies continue to support policies that demonstrably destroy societies, because they have always belived what they believe now. That's being conservative.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @CharleszMartel

    That is why I describe myself as a reactionary.

    What is there about this culture I find good enough to conserve?

    Gender Dysphoria? Feminist twaddle? Anti-White
    Hysteria? Which subhuman primate the Kardashian whores are copulating with this week?

    The wit and wisdom of Kamala Harris? The genius-level observations of Occasional- Cortex and the twat squad? The fact that a Supreme Court nominee lawyerette can’t distinguish between a man and a woman as she’s not a biologist?

    Maybe it is time to let it all burn down…..

  196. @Dave from Oz
    @SFG

    The link between jews and feminism is that circumcision makes a man terrible in bed.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @CharleszMartel

    I’d always heard that circumcised men lasted longer and were therefore considered better.

    But I’ve been with a woman who didn’t like circumcised cock, although she liked mine ( and I am circumcised).

    She said that I still had enough foreskin to cover all of the head of my penis if not erect. She hated the look of a penis where it seemed the skin near the head appeared perpetually stretched.

    According to articles I read in the early 70’s (I think in Forum when it was interesting and not just bad letters), it is sometimes possible to restore some sort of foreskin by skin stretching methods.

    Anyhoo, as long as it works it’s all good!

  197. @Cool Daddy Jimbo
    I will say one thing in her defense. Ever since she picked up her first doll she's been told motherhood is the greatest thing ever. Every commercial shows her that. All her friends go on rapturously about motherhood. Everywhere she looks, happy mothers with beautiful happy children. But it's not like that. It's dirty. It's smelly. It's loud. You can't hold a conversation with an 18-month-old. Stay-at-home mom is a pretty crappy job. So now she's thinking (maybe subconsciously), "Wtf is the matter with me? Was this whole thing a lie?" It's VERY hard on her.

    Funny thing is, you knew all this without even thinking about it. You knew a diaper smelled like shit, because ... there's shit in it. That never occurred to her until she was elbows-deep. You knew a two-year-old wouldn't do a thing you told him. Why would he? The entire world revolves around him. Never occurred to her. You take the whole thing with a smile and a grain of salt. She thinks something has gone horribly wrong.

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel, @Anonymous

    There’s actually a reason why 2 year olds tend to say “no” to their parents.

    At that age they are starting to understand the concept of self as a distinct individual from their parents.

    So they try to disobey to test the idea that they are their own individuals.

  198. Anonymous[216] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian
    In human beings, it's something that varies.

    NYT article is idiotic, but how can we explain that over 50% of Japanese and Korean women are childless & seem not to be much disturbed by that. It is not that 5-10% of women don't want or can't have babies-but a great percentage, 30% to 50%- simply don't care.

    It is another thing with those who already have children; this really is, in most cases, instinct.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I suspect that in Japan and South Korea, the bellcurve for parental instinct simply has a narrow distribution, just as the distribution for physical traits, mental traits, attitudes towards gender, and attitudes towards LGBT in these countries also have narrow distributions.

    Almost no Japanese and Koreans hate kids. Almost no Japanese and Koreans want 10+ kids.

    Whereas in Caucasian populations you get a higher percentage of people who hate kids and get vasectomy or tubal ligation and also a high percentage of people who are fundamentalist Christian and want to have many kids.

  199. Anonymous[216] • Disclaimer says:
    @CCG
    @Mark G.


    Society will increasingly become like an inner-city ghetto in which good looking but irresponsible men are baby daddies to multiple women.
     
    So, Sub-Saharan Africa based on R-selection? Then there's a need to restrict child benefits to married couples only.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I’ve been saying for a long time that married couples with income under \$500,000 where both mother and father have university degrees should get generous welfare, free daycare and preschool, pay no income tax, etc. University degree being a proxy for IQ (government can’t legally force the entire population to take IQ tests).

  200. @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    Surprised that they don’t blame Christianity for promoting the maternal instinct.

    Traditional Christian art is dominated by tender images of Mary with baby Jesus. Starting in the 2nd Century beautiful paintings by renowned artists depict Mary gently cradling baby Jesus. Early Christianity glorified the mother of Christ and Christian art is filled with paintings and sculptures of the Madonna and baby Jesus to glorify motherhood ... some Christian artwork includes Joseph, Mary and Jesus but few include Joseph alone with his son. The figure of the Madonna is one of the most frequently produced images in the history of art dating back to the second century. The Madonna was most commonly painted with Jesus on her lap...later depictions express a more tender intimate moment between mother and her child, with Christ sometimes suckling her breast. The most well known examples of the Madonna and child were completed by Raphael to celebrate the tender emotions between a young mother and her child....Raphael painted over 40 paintings of Madonna and Child for commercial sales from the years 1504 to 1520 AD. Maybe they should blame Raphael for promoting the maternal instinct 500 years ago.

    Replies: @CharleszMartel

    Another take on Madonna art….

    My Madonna

    BY ROBERT W. SERVICE

    I haled me a woman from the street,

       Shameless, but, oh, so fair!

    I bade her sit in the model’s seat

       And I painted her sitting there.

    I hid all trace of her heart unclean;

       I painted a babe at her breast;

    I painted her as she might have been

       If the Worst had been the Best.

    She laughed at my picture and went away.

       Then came, with a knowing nod,

    A connoisseur, and I heard him say;

       “’Tis Mary, the Mother of God.”

    So I painted a halo round her hair,

       And I sold her and took my fee,

    And she hangs in the church of Saint Hillaire,

       Where you and all may see.

  201. @FPD72
    @Rob McX

    In Neil Simon’s Act II, the James Caan character describes a blind date as being a Star Wars character. So it is with this person, who looks like Jar Jar Binks’ lost sister.

    Do circus or carnival midways have freak shows any more? Probably not, due to PC, but even more importantly, you can’t charge for what is so readily available for free

    Replies: @CharleszMartel

    When I was a kid, the only place to see a tattooed lady was at the circus. Then came Cher, and it became trendy. Now it’s ubiquitous, and disgusting, to me at any rate.

    I have actually told much younger women, (the few who are not tattoed, at least where one can see it in public, and who like to show off a lot of flesh)8(, how refreshing and nice it is to see a pretty girl that has no markings. Many now say ‘Thanks- I don’t like them”. But they often add that their friends urge them to get them.

    I feel it’s a female conspiracy a la “Bernice bobs her hair”, the Fitzgerald story about female sexual competition. If you can get your competition to uglify themselves, you win.

  202. @Rob
    @mmack

    This is actually probably true both ways. Adults are selected on thinking kids are cute enough to not kill (their own) kids, but parents also have the choice of ditching the kid entirely. This is bad for the parent (the kid is 0.5 genetically them) under lots of circumstances, but beneficial under others. Being abandoned is much worse for the kid (he is 100% genetically himself and only .5 w each parent)

    So, evolution has likely crafted kids faces to be cute by disproportionately culling un-cute kids.

    Replies: @CharleszMartel

    I have read that the reason babies look similar (As Winston Churchill reputedly said when told a baby looked like him- ” Madam, ALL babies look like me.”) is due to male uncertainty about paternity. The women all stand around telling the purported Father how much the baby looks like him

  203. Winston Churchill reportedly said, upon being told that a women’s baby looked just like him, “Madam, all babies look like me”.

    He wasn’t actually wrong.

    I remember reading somewhere that the reason most babies look very similar is to convince the purported Father into thinking the children are always his. There’s usually a gaggle of females around telling the alleged Father how much the baby looks like him. ( A Group Evolutionary Strategy? What say you, Kevin Macdonald?)

  204. Anonymous[102] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mark G.
    Both women and men have a protective instinct. The female protective instinct focuses mostly on children while the male instinct focuses on both women and children. This is why men do things like stay on the Titanic while women and children are getting into the lifeboats.

    Women would traditionally look for a mate who they were sexually attracted to and who they felt had enough of a protective instinct to stick around and kind of take care of them and their children together. The welfare state, though, changed the type of calculation females did. They could just pick the most sexually attractive male while having the government take over the protector and provider role. Any genes that cause males to be protective are probably slowly being bred out of the population since men who carry those genes are less likely to be picked by women now to be fathers. Society will increasingly become like an inner-city ghetto in which good looking but irresponsible men are baby daddies to multiple women. Inner city ghettoes don't generate any taxes but suck up a lot of welfare money so if the entire society becomes like that it will lead to a civilizational collapse.

    Replies: @CCG, @Anonymous

    You’re forgetting that most people aren’t poor enough to qualify for welfare.

    Only LC and some LMC people can get welfare. MMC, UMC, and UC women know that in order to get money, they have to either work, inherit, or marry a MMC, UMC, or UC man.

    Ghetto selection will only happen in the LC and to a lesser extent in the LMC.

  205. @Steve Sailer
    @Badger Down

    I can recall driving through Yosemite Valley in the 1960s when I was about seven. We see a huge number of cars pulled over on one side of the road. We follow the motorists into the woods, where about 100 people have encircled a cute baby bear cub all by his lonesome. My dad grabs me by the collar and drags me back to the car and we drive away. My father didn't know that mother bears' maternal instinct was a male conspiracy.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Badger Down

    You had a collar! I recall my Californian friend being badly shocked that I had been kept on a leash as a toddler. We called them “reins” in those days.

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