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NYT: "Let Refugees Settle Italy’s Empty Spaces:" Is This Parody or Just Stupidity?
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The quality of mainstream respectable thinking on immigration is so lowbrow that we frequently witness the phenomenon of op0eds that could well be trolling, but, depressingly, probably are really just as stupid as they appear to be. For example, from the New York Times:

Let Refugees Settle Italy’s Empty Spaces
NOV. 4, 2015

Beppe Severgnini

Milan — AS Europe frets over what to do about the hundreds of thousands of refugees pouring onto the Continent, it occurs to me that the ancient Romans, as they so often do, might offer a solution.

Decimation? Slavery? Crucifixion? Feeding to the lions? World conquest? Galleys?

The ancient Romans used to reward their legionnaires with plots of land, through a system known as “centuriation.” The Romans adopted the system in the fourth century B.C., when Rome was still a vibrant republic. But it lasted for hundreds of years, involving former servicemen from all over the empire.

Centuriation had several advantages. The first was, obviously, strategic, as it created a permanent military presence. The second was economic: Veterans would farm uncultivated areas, produce wealth that went back into the community, and take care of themselves. The third was demographic: Those early pioneers and their families populated vast tracts of Italy and the lands beyond. …

So why don’t we try something similar with modern migrants?

True, they haven’t fought any wars for Italy; they’re running away from wars, in places like Syria, or escaping sub-Saharan poverty and authoritarian regimes. But they have the right skills. While well-educated migrants aim for Germany and Northern Europe, those who stay in Italy tend to be farmers, builders and artisans. Most of them are young and used to hard work. And parts of our country, from the rural south to the hilltop villages of central Italy, are depopulating fast. Italy is aging. It needs new people.

Sure, there may be a few devils in the details. Would the Italians who remain in these regions welcome them? Would the migrants even want to go there in the first place?

Would they stay? How are you going to keep them down on the farm after they’ve seen Milano?

Who would pay for their accommodation and equipment, and provide an initial income to get them started? But there are also obvious advantages.

For the newcomers, to start with. Living in a peaceful Italian village, with no one harassing or shooting them, is a good way to restart their lives.

Italy would gain, too: Mountain areas in Abruzzo and Molise are losing their inhabitants at a steady pace, and some villages have been deserted altogether. In Sardinia — arguably the most beautiful island in the Mediterranean — 83 percent of people live in small settlements with populations under 5,000, and those villages are emptying out; 33 are predicted to shut down in the coming decades. With incomers to tend it, Italy’s lovely but fragile territory could be taken care of.

Modern-day centuriation would bring a third advantage. The growing number of Italians worried about immigration, and those leaning toward xenophobia, would see the newcomers in a different light. People initially in need of help, of course — but also offering something in return. Not foreigners claiming benefits, but workers contributing their own skills to help make and fix things in their new homeland.

Yes, there would be cultural differences to iron out. But Italy is more diverse than we think: Albanian and Greek linguistic minorities are still to be found across the south of the country. French is spoken in the northwest, German in South Tyrol and Slavic languages in the northeast. Arabic can be heard in southern Sicily.

And, again, when immigrants are needed, everything becomes easier. Wealthy dairy farmers in the Po Valley — not exactly the most open-minded section of Italian society — were happy when Indians, especially Sikhs, recently settled there to tend their cattle. If they left, the whole business would come to a grinding halt.

Ancient centuriation to manage modern immigration, then — could it work? History, geography, economy and common sense all point in the same direction. But obviously it’s not enough. What’s also needed is farsighted political leadership. The ancient Romans had it. What about the modern ones?

Beppe Severgnini is a columnist at Corriere della Sera, the author of “La Bella Figura: A Field Guide to the Italian Mind” and a contributing opinion writer.

Two Women” in Italy after a multiculturally enriching encounter with Muslims in 1944

 
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  1. It would *work*, it just wouldn’t be Italy anymore.

    • Replies: @Honorary Thief
    What's the problem? It's not like we're talking about an important country which also happens to begin with the letter I that *needs* to have its own ethnic identity...
  2. It happened before.

    From:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia

    Sicily was once an Islamic emirate, therefore “mafia” might have Arabic roots. Possible Arabic roots of the word include:

    maha = quarry, cave;[3] especially the mafie caves in the region of Marsala, which acted as hiding places for persecuted Muslims and later served other types of refugees.[4]
    mahyas (مهياص) = aggressive boasting, bragging
    marfud (مرفوض) = rejected
    mu’afa = safety, protection[3]
    Ma’àfir = the name of an Arab tribe[5] that ruled Palermo.[6]

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Sicily was also once a Norman kingdom. But while it was ruled by Arabs and Normans at times in the past, the Arabs and Normans didn't settle the country. The non-Italian element that did settle Sicily in large numbers were the Greeks, who established colonies in Sicily and southern Italy.
  3. At least the article doesn’t contain the dumbest phrase in modern American lefty journalizzum:

    “Here’s What You Need To Know”

  4. Also this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orestes_%28father_of_Romulus_Augustulus%29

    This has actually been tried repeatedly. It has never worked well.

  5. • Replies: @San Joaquin Sam
    He looks exactly as one might suspect.
    , @ben tillman

    Beppe Severgnini looks like a cross between David Hockney and Boris Johnson.
     
    I don't know who Hockney is, but I do see the resemblance to Boris Johnson as well as Bobby Cremins and Phil Donahue.
    , @Mark Eugenikos
    John Lennon's doppelganger
    , @Jim Don Bob
    "Never go full retard." Robert Downey, Jr. as Kirk Lazarus in Tropic Thunder.

    Malcolm Muggeridge must be rolling in his grave.
  6. Perhaps both.

    The NYT is now in rare form, surpassing even The Onion with what can only be labeled otherworldly satire on a regular basis. It’s quite a feat to exceed the Onion in this. I can only assuming they hire the best comedy writers around.

    That said, it’s really hard to insult this supposed newspaper and it’s writers when they do such a good job themselves.

  7. “The ancient Romans used to reward their legionnaires ”

    -I.e., not cowards.

    “True, they haven’t fought any wars for Italy;”

    -Exactly.

    “they’re running away from wars, in places like Syria, or escaping sub-Saharan poverty and authoritarian regimes. But they have the right skills.”

    -I, too, am having the same reaction Steve is at this point. How could a man smart enough to put words on paper write something so stupid?

    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
  8. Looking at some actual population density data:

    Saudi Arabia: 12.3/km^2
    Algeria: 16.2/km^2
    USA: 35/km^2
    Mexico: 61/km^2
    Sardinia (the “empty space” of Italy): 69/km^2
    Ethiopia: 83/km^2
    France: 118/km^2
    China: 145/km^2
    Italy: 202/km^2
    Germany: 226/km^2
    United Kingdom: 262/km^2
    Japan: 337.1/km^2
    Israel: 387.6/km^2

    Sardinia, highlighted by the NYT author as a prime “empty space” of Italy is more densely populated than US, South America and North America as a whole, and far more densely populated than most countries of the middle east or north africa. It’s only slightly less densely populated than Ethiopia.

    Italy as a whole is still one of the most densely populated countries on the planet. People really have to bend over backwards to paint it as empty.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    And large parts of Italy are steep mountains.
    , @ScarletNumber
    You understand why Saudi Arabia and Algeria have such a low population density, right?
  9. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Steve,

    I love you man, but you’ve taken a very weak swipe at what is an outrageous proposal.

    1. Romans did a lot of bad things. Therefore this particular idea is not necessarily good.

    2. This is not a good idea because there is no guarantee they would stay in rural Italy. As if it would be a good idea even if they did stay???

    • Replies: @Harold
    In fairness to Sailer, this article is just too absurd. It is hard to know where to start. Everything there is to say is just so obvious. I start to understand how the SJWs, the point-and-sputterers, feel. I was going to write a reasoned rebuttal to the article, but, I mean, wow, just wow, I can’t even.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    The same question comes to mind when people propose 'revitalizing' Baltimore or Detroit by settling immigrants there. How do you get them to stay? Turn those cities into city-states with their own border controls?
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    1. Romans did a lot of bad things. Therefore this particular idea is not necessarily good.

     

    Bad things like inviting barbarians in to serve as mercenaries and to settle vacant land to prop up tax revenues to offset a decling population?
    , @Romanian
    Dude, the Romans were awesome. From city to continental civilization in 300 years. They did bad things? Who hasn't? They were no worse than thei contemporaries, and a lot better in many instances. And I'm not just saying that because of my handle. Engineers, soldiers, statesmen, architects, just awesome. For the socially liberal among us, they even reconciled a patriarchal society with tolerance for different sexual proclivities, as long as the family, gender roles, virtue and raising the next generation remained central.

    Then, they did us another solid by screwing themselves up in so many ways as to provide us, thousands of years later, with evidence of their folly so that the wiser among us can take heed and not repeat their many mistakes. Which we are doing either way.

  10. This idea that high population density is always a good thing under all circumstances is really loopy.A decline in GDP mathematically is not necessarily a bad thing as long as per capita GDP goes up. And you have more room. There is a hardcore leftist ideal that wants us to live in Bladerunner LA, Jacob Riis’s Lower East Side or Fritz Lang’s Metropolis.

    There is simply no way you can compare Sikhs or Indians(mostly peaceful, hardworking, respectful , wanting their children to be well-educated and gainfully employed) to backward Islamic fanatics . Simply they are not looking for work, they’re looking of free stuff and to eventually make over. Perhaps they can live with the author and his family.

    Hanging your hat on linguistics from centuries ago or Sicily’s encounters with Islam; that’s cute. Some Sicilian relatives by marriage don’t care for Muslims. Nor do Spaniards, nor Maltese. The author forgets western and southern Europeans threw them out. Not a happy history at all. Something about the crocodile eating you last.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    There is simply no way you can compare Sikhs or Indians(mostly peaceful, hardworking, respectful , wanting their children to be well-educated and gainfully employed)

    Please. Sikhs and Indians are clannish, despise Whites, and foster low social trust in society. No thanks.

    Muslims at least are universalist and foster social solidarity.

    But the bottom line is that Europe and the United States need a permanent moratorium on ALL immigration.
  11. Anti-racism is the great evil of our age.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Silber
    Anti-racism is the great evil of our age.

    I think Leftism is the great evil of our age, in all its various embodiments; so-called Liberalism is its current embodiment in the West.

    Anti-racism, in my view, is a tenet of Liberalism, and one of its most destructive.
  12. @Massimo Heitor
    Looking at some actual population density data:

    Saudi Arabia: 12.3/km^2
    Algeria: 16.2/km^2
    USA: 35/km^2
    Mexico: 61/km^2
    Sardinia (the "empty space" of Italy): 69/km^2
    Ethiopia: 83/km^2
    France: 118/km^2
    China: 145/km^2
    Italy: 202/km^2
    Germany: 226/km^2
    United Kingdom: 262/km^2
    Japan: 337.1/km^2
    Israel: 387.6/km^2

    Sardinia, highlighted by the NYT author as a prime "empty space" of Italy is more densely populated than US, South America and North America as a whole, and far more densely populated than most countries of the middle east or north africa. It's only slightly less densely populated than Ethiopia.

    Italy as a whole is still one of the most densely populated countries on the planet. People really have to bend over backwards to paint it as empty.

    And large parts of Italy are steep mountains.

    • Replies: @Clyde

    And large parts of Italy are steep mountains.
     
    Same as Japan. Population decline can be beneficial and work for Japan as long as they put together an effective hi-tech military. Militaries need young men, so traditionally demographic heft is desirable.
    The Japanese population of 126 million lives mostly on coastal plains. Interiors of their Islands are usually mountainous.

    About 72% of Japan is mountainous, with a mountain range running through each of the main islands. Japan's highest mountain is Mount Fuji, with an elevation of 3,776 meters....
     
    , @WhatEvvs
    [sarcasmalert]Then stick 'em in the mountains, in camps, far away from everyone else. Ya want to live in Italy? This is Italy![/sarcasmalert]
  13. Funny how the left still holds the ‘green’ title but is trying to do everything possible to reduce the greenbelts in England to accommodate Muslims, and fill up every bit of green space with immigrants-
    They also seem to think we can’t ‘engineer’ people to stay in those towns losing population but somehow, can motivate people to move there….as long as they are not white.

    Yet the lecture us about global warming?

    I am waiting for an NYT ‘hat trick’ editorial page- telling whites to be green and not have babies in op ed 1 but in op ed 2 how ‘migrants’ will invigorate the economy and are needed to keep the new housing industry in business.

    • Replies: @Harold

    Funny how the left still holds the ‘green’ title but is trying to do everything possible to reduce the greenbelts in England to accommodate Muslims, and fill up every bit of green space with immigrants
     
    From the NYT’s comments (in reply to another comment):

    W NYC 7 hours ago

    I guess you missed the part about vast swaths of Italy that is empty. Areas that are in NEED of people.

    But it is just so much easier to be nasty I guess.
     

    Emboldening (but not capitalisation) mine.

    We can’t have empty wilderness; the earth needs peopling! A sentiment straight out of the eighteenth century.

  14. Sounds terrific! I think maybe I can squeeze myself onto one of those flotillas and be a “refugee” in the Tuscan hillside for a few years. Sounds just the thing.

    How about we run an article in the LA Times saying that we should house the Syrian migrant population in all those foreclosed McMansions in Las Vegas and Southern California? One month you’re living in a refugee camp in the Balkans, the next month you’re living in a 10,000 square foot compound in Santa Barbara. Sounds like the perfect way for these poor folks to “restart their lives’.” Should go over like treat, too!

    • Replies: @jakobscalpel
    Sorry to burst this otherwise excellent idea.... but there aren't many empty foreclosed McMansions here in SB. The local housing market is ridiculously, insanely tight.
  15. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anony-mouse
    It happened before.

    From:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia


    Sicily was once an Islamic emirate, therefore "mafia" might have Arabic roots. Possible Arabic roots of the word include:

    maha = quarry, cave;[3] especially the mafie caves in the region of Marsala, which acted as hiding places for persecuted Muslims and later served other types of refugees.[4]
    mahyas (مهياص) = aggressive boasting, bragging
    marfud (مرفوض) = rejected
    mu'afa = safety, protection[3]
    Ma'àfir = the name of an Arab tribe[5] that ruled Palermo.[6]

    Sicily was also once a Norman kingdom. But while it was ruled by Arabs and Normans at times in the past, the Arabs and Normans didn’t settle the country. The non-Italian element that did settle Sicily in large numbers were the Greeks, who established colonies in Sicily and southern Italy.

  16. The NY Times permitted comments and as usual when it comes to immigration they run against the NYTimes op-ed or editorial. Reader comments are worth checking out on this one! Here are two of them:

    _____
    _____

    Northstar5 Los Angeles 11 hours ago

    Young Muslim men don’t just draw attention to themselves by shooting cartoonists. Those Muslims are obviously in a minority. But don’t discount the little ways in which they threaten or bother their host society every single day. As a (blonde) woman who spent her 20s living in France, Italy and Sweden, I can tell you that every day was something of an ordeal when I walked around town going about my business. Men harassed, accosted, chased, followed, stalked, said incredibly rude and graphic things, and generally behaved in ways so offensively sexist that I came away wondering what they were doing here in the West. If they have such contempt for us, then go away.

    100% of the time, men who acted like that were of North African or sub-Saharan origin. And it went on non-stop. French men pursue women too, but in a different and more respectful way, even when they are pushy.

    The behavior I describe was far from infrequent. And it wasn’t just me. I saw it happen repeatedly to other women like me. I dressed appropriately, in case anyone things I brought it on myself. There was nothing to be done to avoid the barbaric treatment.

    It deeply soured me on societies I used to cherish, and I mourn for the Europe of my childhood with its peaceful enlightenment, egalitarianism, and respect for human and civil rights and the rule of law. As a liberal person, I also resent feeling forced into bigotry because of this behavior.

    The author should not wish these migrants on his country.
    ____
    ____

    John US Virgin Islands 14 hours ago

    As a former resident of South Dakota I have to laugh at the idea of refugees going to places that are sparsely populated. How many of the flows of Vietnamese or Cubans from the ’70’s went to the Dakotas or to rural areas? How many of the Irish or Italians from the 1880’s went to become farmers? People want to live in cities, and want to live with people that share language and culture. Take a look at France – the Algerians and North African muslims that flooded into France live in a concentrated ring near Paris and a couple of other cities, not spread across the countryside in berets making cheese. hard to imagine the Syrians and Afghans settling down in Calabria to a life of olive oil pressing and tomato packing. I think it is a great idea – but the reality is going to be large Syrian/Middle Eastern and muslim neighborhoods in European cities, competing for public services and distinct community ‘rights’.

    • Replies: @Another Canadian

    Men harassed, accosted, chased, followed, stalked, said incredibly rude and graphic things, and generally behaved in ways so offensively sexist that I came away wondering what they were doing here in the West.
     
    Sounds like a perfect fit for Italy!
  17. Sell your shares in the The Onion now.

  18. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    There are parts of Italy that are giving away nominally free houses because of population decline:

    “A town in Italy is giving away free homes — under one condition”

    http://www.businessinsider.com/town-in-sicily-giving-away-free-houses-2015-6

    Want a free house?

    The Sicilian town of Gangi, tucked away in the central part of the country, needs newcomers to replace its vanishing populace.

    So the local government has decided to offer up vacant homes to businesses that want to spruce up the area with hotels and individuals looking for a European fixer-upper.

    In a 102-word release, Gangi — local population: 7,000 — curtly explained the terms of the deal.

    “Those who will be assigned the free houses have to bear the expenses for the transfer of ownership,” the release explains.

    In other words, it’s your problem now.

    The formal requirements stipulate that new owners must present a plan for renovation within one year of purchase and complete those renovations within three years.

    The fixes won’t be quick. Many of the Gangi homes are dilapidated, not having seen any human attention in decades.

    • Replies: @JVO
    Isn't that annoying that they can't just give them the damn thing? It always has to be something.
    , @LondonBob
    Italy is a real laggard in attracting Northern European retirees.
  19. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Bugg
    This idea that high population density is always a good thing under all circumstances is really loopy.A decline in GDP mathematically is not necessarily a bad thing as long as per capita GDP goes up. And you have more room. There is a hardcore leftist ideal that wants us to live in Bladerunner LA, Jacob Riis's Lower East Side or Fritz Lang's Metropolis.

    There is simply no way you can compare Sikhs or Indians(mostly peaceful, hardworking, respectful , wanting their children to be well-educated and gainfully employed) to backward Islamic fanatics . Simply they are not looking for work, they're looking of free stuff and to eventually make over. Perhaps they can live with the author and his family.

    Hanging your hat on linguistics from centuries ago or Sicily's encounters with Islam; that's cute. Some Sicilian relatives by marriage don't care for Muslims. Nor do Spaniards, nor Maltese. The author forgets western and southern Europeans threw them out. Not a happy history at all. Something about the crocodile eating you last.

    There is simply no way you can compare Sikhs or Indians(mostly peaceful, hardworking, respectful , wanting their children to be well-educated and gainfully employed)

    Please. Sikhs and Indians are clannish, despise Whites, and foster low social trust in society. No thanks.

    Muslims at least are universalist and foster social solidarity.

    But the bottom line is that Europe and the United States need a permanent moratorium on ALL immigration.

    • Replies: @Alek
    Do you know any Sikhs?

    I am a Sikh who grew up in England. My brother, along with three of my cousins, have white spouses. My kids have mostly white friends. Do they all despise whites?

    Sikhs in the UK have lower crime rates, and higher income and educational levels, then the average. Read the articles by Theodore Dalrymple on this topic.

    As general advice, do some research before posting on sites like this.
    , @Romanian
    Agree with the first. Disagree with the second. Social solidarity is easy when you feel like a minority on a mission, but some are always more equal than others even in the Muslim world, between nations and inside nations. Let's just say you won't be seeing Saudis blowing themselves up with bombs in the Middle East, it's mostly Libyans.

    https://pando.com/2014/03/28/the-war-nerd-who-exactly-are-the-jihadis-and-why-arent-there-more-of-them/


    Thanks to a lucky find made by US forces in Iraq, there’s some good information about the origin of the "foreign fighters," or jihadis, who fought in Iraq. In 2007, American troops raided a house in Sinjar, in northwestern Iraq up agains the Syrian border.

    They found a list of about 700 jihadis who were fighting with ISI, the parent group of ISIS, the Iraqi/Syrian jihadi faction that controls most of the countryside in eastern Syria. Brian Fishman, one of the better American analysts, co-authored a report based on 606 jihadis’ personnel records.

    Some of the results are not surprising, like the fact that Saudis made up 41% of the names on the Sinjar List. Saudi Arabia is in a world of its own, as I’ve written before—and fighting a losing battle to maintain that world against a global mall culture.
    So it’s not surprising that so many Saudis find a career in jihad. What is surprising is that Saudi Arabia was only the second-ranked country on the Sinjar List, per capita. Libya, with a population less than a quarter of Saudi Arabia’s, contributed 18.8% of the fighters on the List. Even more impressive, almost nine out of ten Libyans listed their role in Iraq as "suicide commando," rather than mere "fighter."Most surprising of all, the #1 hometown for jihadis on the Sinjar List was Darnah (sometimes spelled "Derna"), a small city in Eastern Libya. 52 of the 606 jihadis on the List were from Darnah. Riyadh, the second-ranked home town with 51 volunteers, is more than 70 times bigger than Darnah, so there’s very clearly something special about Darnah. Writers from western media booked tickets there after the Sinjar List’s breakdown was publicized, hoping to find what made this "sleepy town" such prime territory for jihad, and came up with various answers ranging from the total absence of a local economy to the region’s long tradition of resistance, including the honor of being among the first places invaded by the USMC during the Barbary Coast wars (Remember "the halls of Tripoli"? Darnah.)

    As far as I can tell, the ingredients for a much, much bigger, scarier jihad are everywhere in the Muslim world. For a male raised to expect the eternal validity of partriarchal norms, the shocks are non-stop. You don’t even know you’re shocking the local sensibilities until you see the reaction. I saw a Western woman, unveiled, sit down on a bench in the Najran airport. She wasn’t trying to make a gesture or strike a blow against patriarchy; she was just hot and tired after flying from London to Riyadh, then getting dumped at the end of the world to wait for a van to pick her (and the rest of us) up from the airport.

    But there was an old man on that bench, also waiting to be picked up. He was at one end and she sat down at the other—there was nothing like physical contact, as we would define it. But he was so outraged that he got up, leaning on his cane, and stood a few meters away, clearly in pain but preferring to stand on his one good leg rather than share a bench with an unveiled female.

    Multiply shocks like that by the hundred, day after day—every commercial your kids are watching, every movie they rent, everything they learn at school—and you get a sense of where jihad comes from—or could be expected to come from. Because it just isn’t happening to the extent you’d expect. If my culture had to undergo that level of constant alienation…well, I don’t think we’d put up with it. The population crisis would be solved in a matter of minutes--let’s just put it that way.
     
    , @Jefferson
    "Please. Sikhs and Indians are clannish, despise Whites, and foster low social trust in society. No thanks."

    And Muslims love Whites? They sure have an extremely weird way of showing it when they commit terrorist attacks in the U.S and European countries and murder plenty of White Europeans in the process.

    With "friends" like Muslims who need enemies.
  20. @Rob McX

    Beppe Severgnini looks like a cross between David Hockney and Boris Johnson.

    I don’t know who Hockney is, but I do see the resemblance to Boris Johnson as well as Bobby Cremins and Phil Donahue.

  21. “Living in a peaceful Italian village, with no one harassing or shooting them, is a good way to restart their lives.”

    Unless they start doing the harassing or shooting, of course.

    Seriously, don’t Europeans have at least the survival instinct? Why would you want to see your own country overrun by barbarians? The Romans at least fought them.

    These idiots should be sent to live in Ethiopia. What about exchanging one refugee for each pro-immigration journalist/politician, that is a proposal I can get behind.

    • Agree: Anonym
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    What about exchanging one refugee for each pro-immigration journalist/politician,

    Actually, even a 100-to-1 exchange would be worth it!
  22. whaaa? Is pot legal in Italy now? or, did I just read this post by this, this, supposed Italian man? What happens when Italian people get the munchies; will prosciutto be banned? What about soppressata, salami…serious cheeses that are not halal? Shit! all the stuff which makes me fat!

    Halal meats are just so much more of a foreign language to Italian Catholics than they can digest. I mean, Italians must get acquainted with the idea that the “sacrificial lamb” must have its blood drained out before it is “halal,” yeah, I mean, the poor animal must suffer. God doesn’t care what you eat, btw. Muslim customs with animals is animal abuse. Italy is doomed.

    • Replies: @D. K.
    Ben tornato, ragazza!
  23. You can’t make this stuff up…..but I’ll try. Hire Elon Musk to resettle all the refugees on Mars!

  24. I’ve been aware of Beppe S for some years, having read one of his light-hearted books about Italians and their mannerisms. His observations struck me as wrong-headed but not particularly offensive. I also first thought this was satire and re-read it for cues to that effect. It is not. It’s a sign that religion of liberalism is so powerful even innate instincts of self-preservation must be suppressed by whatever means necessary. Suppressed if necessary by writing inane essays defending liberal dogma no matter how suicidal.

    As pointed out Italy is not sparsely populated. If one happens to see lots of open space when driving through Italian countryside on the autostrada that’s because it’s farmland, or too mountainous or arid for development. I think Severgnini knows this but had to put something in writing expressing his solidarity with the immigrants.

    At any time in human history up to about fifty years ago invaders such as these would have been greeted with the contemporary equivalents of minefields and machine-gun fire. Now as with many other issues the religion of liberalism contorts itself into knots to explain that invasion is an act of love.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    If one happens to see lots of open space when driving through Italian countryside on the autostrada that’s because it’s farmland, or too mountainous or arid for development.

    This is true even of Japan. Just outside of Kyoto there are mountainous areas too steep to build on. And there are remote areas of Japan where land is relatively cheap because they are far away from urban areas and there is no work but farming.
    , @Lagertha
    Ok, this is related to what you just said, but in a twisted way. Ahhmm, some of you know I have a background in fashion and, this may be news to you, but Italy has always had a weird relationship to its farm animals because of a LACK OF LAND, and its central reputation for fashion.

    Lambs are usually slaughtered in Italy, since there is not enough land to raise cattle (of any kind) like we have back in the west in the USA. Italians have always told me that land is scarce, therefore, most farm animals do not have a long life span. Also, Italians have always been known for their shoes (shoe making) since supple leather was abundant at all times: pig, sheep, cow.

    Lambs and baby pigs/calves were also slaughtered for food: all those delicacies we all know at venerable Italian restaurants...even dishes like calves heads and innards of hog/sheep. But, most of all, the skins were used for the shoe & upholstery business. Most people may not know that the idea of "Italian leather" for sports car seats and sofas come from this long habit of using all parts of the animal (much like "early man") for a marketable purpose because of not having huge prairies to allow cattle to graze.

    , @slumber_j

    If one happens to see lots of open space when driving through Italian countryside on the autostrada that’s because it’s farmland, or too mountainous or arid for development. I think Severgnini knows this but had to put something in writing expressing his solidarity with the immigrants.
     
    He almost certainly does. About fifteen years ago, I had this Palermitan girlfriend who was trying to get me to learn some Italian, so she gave me a Beppe Severgnini book, Un Italiano In America. It's basically a lot of Bill Bryson-style fish-out-of-water observational comedy on stuff like why do American houses all have non-functional shutters.

    It's fine and perfectly well-observed, if predictably tendentious. If the guy is actually pretty good at noticing things and has a normally well-developed sense of humor, what made him generate something like this piece?
  25. >>>Modern-day centuriation would bring a third advantage. The growing number of Italians worried about immigration, and those leaning toward xenophobia, would see the newcomers in a different light.

    Subtext: if we move fast and heavy we can effect such a demographic transformation that the Italian natives won’t be able to do anything about it.

  26. I mean, come on. Just look at this guy…

    http://www.navecorsara.it/wp/2014/03/10/beppe-severgnini-non-la-conta-giusta/

    He looks like Andrea Merkel in drag.

    Basically, Italy should award foreigners for showing up on their shores to get on welfare because 2300 years ago the Roman Empire conquered the known Western World by rewarding the Roman aristocratic elite with large land grants in exchange for their global military conquests because logic.

    He wrote for years for The Economist which is all you basically need to know. From what I can tell, he makes a living making light, slightly condescending observations about the idiosyncratic quirks of Italians. He explains to Anglo-American elite audiences why Italians are just so peculiar and fail to get with the program of open immigration, lame cars and fast food outlets.

    I went to the “Rocket” Subway shop in Rome where they offered “American style fast subway sandwiches”. It was one of the best sandwiches I ever had with impeccable high quality ingredients. The “Rocket” style approach took over 30 minutes to make a sandwich…

    God, I love Italians.

    • Replies: @SFG
    They have terrible corruption and disorganization.

    That said, they've chosen their way of life, it has its pluses as well as its minuses, and I can't see any reason why we should make them change it.
  27. @i am typing

    Yeah, the Left has totally given up on the whole overpopulation is a bad thing. When was the last time you heard a Leftist bring up the dangers of an overpopulated planet. It has disappeared down the memory hole. Climate change, formerly known as global warming, is the cause-celebre now.

    So the writer of the above article, Beppe Severgnini, was born in Italy so he should be aware of how densely populated it is. I wonder what empty spaces he is referring to?

    From a Newsweek article:
    Many migrants do not want to apply for asylum in Italy, because the country’s welfare system is virtually non-existent for people who have never had a job. Instead, they hope to move on to countries such as Britain and Germany where both work and welfare are easier to find.”

    So if he wants migrants to feel up the empty spaces he better start advocating for more generous welfare benefits, but that would belie the notion that the come to work.

    • Replies: @Clifford Brown
    The Left has given up on overpopulation (note I haven't, please see the LIE or 405 during rush hour) because uncontrolled third world population growth furthers the cause of the displacement of the population that the Western Elite views as problematic.

    On the other side of the coin, the Economic Elite simply want to expand aggregate demand by any means necessary regardless of how it impacts the quality of life.
  28. So instead of the wonderful Italian artistic and culinary traditions, we can look forward to more and more of this, thanks to Beppe Severgnini and other traitors:

    http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/politica/como-giunta-autorizza-festa-islamica-sacrificio-insorge-lega-1169188.html

    • Replies: @Bill B.
    Another article in that newspaper reports that old divides between real Germans are dissolving as they unify to confront the invaders. More confirmation of the Balkanisation of Europe. Great pic of the fat hanswurst herself incidentally:

    "According to the pollster also the types of conflicts within society are changing because of massive migration flows. "The generational conflicts that characterized the previous decades have not and will not have any relevance" he explains. "The conflict between rich and poor Germans, for example, is gradually dying out. The discrepancy is not between those who have more or less money, but between the different ethnic and religious groups. Other battles that have characterized the past few decades, such as the one for the empowerment of women and protection of the environment, appear to be less popular. The central issue is immigration and the consequences it is having about German identity. " And for many, this is scary."

    http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/mondo/difendersi-dallimmigrazione-germania-torna-ai-valori-tradizi-1191463.html
  29. @oh its just me
    Funny how the left still holds the 'green' title but is trying to do everything possible to reduce the greenbelts in England to accommodate Muslims, and fill up every bit of green space with immigrants-
    They also seem to think we can't 'engineer' people to stay in those towns losing population but somehow, can motivate people to move there....as long as they are not white.

    Yet the lecture us about global warming?

    I am waiting for an NYT 'hat trick' editorial page- telling whites to be green and not have babies in op ed 1 but in op ed 2 how 'migrants' will invigorate the economy and are needed to keep the new housing industry in business.

    Funny how the left still holds the ‘green’ title but is trying to do everything possible to reduce the greenbelts in England to accommodate Muslims, and fill up every bit of green space with immigrants

    From the NYT’s comments (in reply to another comment):

    W NYC 7 hours ago

    I guess you missed the part about vast swaths of Italy that is empty. Areas that are in NEED of people.

    But it is just so much easier to be nasty I guess.

    Emboldening (but not capitalisation) mine.

    We can’t have empty wilderness; the earth needs peopling! A sentiment straight out of the eighteenth century.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Think of the poor, poor magic dirt without enough people living on it.
  30. Do immigrants ever want to settle the uninhabitated areas of any nation to which they immigrate? Not to my knowledge. In the US, they all immediately settle in urban areas where social services are provided.

    I wonder if Beppe Severgnini has noticed that.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    Our rural areas have lots of Mexican/Central American immigrants working on farms and similar rural situations. Especially parts of the South, California and Texas. Western Washington state is full of Mexicans that came to work the fruit orchards. I have a feeling these rurally placed immigrants lived rurally in their homelands. They prefer living away from the big city.
    Rural USA has the social services they want same as our cities.
    , @Romanian
    The age of settlement is over, aside from Israel and, maybe, in the future, Siberia and parts of Africa. Today's refugees and migrants are not European settlers going to the Americas.

    People have many expectations regarding standards of living and technologies which require pre-built infrastructure to handle. You can have people moving in and improving or enlarging an existing city or town, because it is already there and it already has social capital, etc. But what is dead is the idea that you move somewhere where there aren't even roads to eke out an existence on cheap land, wearing homespun and crapping in a ditch until you can set up a more diverse economy or trade with elsewhere based on having some good or commodity they would want (fat chance of it being agricultural given today's prices and capital requirements and global production chains). Only China's version, albeit poorly implemented, of building something huge from the ground with infrastructure built in, including jobs for skilled workforce, can provide colonization within the constraints of today.

    I'd like to see the Russians become engrossed in settling Siberia for its own sake. That might even take the heat of Eastern Europe, since they would have a project occupying them. If people a few hundred years ago would have had some of our technology, they would have settled it like nobody's business. There's something about a frontier and watching something grow from scratch that appeals to a certain kind of man.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Canada has lots and lots of empty land but most of its immigrants settle in the greater Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver metropolises.
  31. “Sure, there may be a few devils in the details. Would the Italians who remain in these regions welcome them? Would the migrants even want to go there in the first place?”

    Batshit insane. It’s like watching someone throw his house away at the blackjack table.

    The gambler will make justifications. Never admit loss. See this guy.

    • Replies: @Thomas Fuller
    To be fair, he also conceded that

    there would be cultural differences to iron out.
     
    Involving amputation, decapitation, free flying lessons for homosexuals, etc., after which all would be sweetness and light.
  32. @Anonymous
    Steve,

    I love you man, but you've taken a very weak swipe at what is an outrageous proposal.

    1. Romans did a lot of bad things. Therefore this particular idea is not necessarily good.

    2. This is not a good idea because there is no guarantee they would stay in rural Italy. As if it would be a good idea even if they did stay???

    In fairness to Sailer, this article is just too absurd. It is hard to know where to start. Everything there is to say is just so obvious. I start to understand how the SJWs, the point-and-sputterers, feel. I was going to write a reasoned rebuttal to the article, but, I mean, wow, just wow, I can’t even.

  33. @jesse helms think-alike
    I've been aware of Beppe S for some years, having read one of his light-hearted books about Italians and their mannerisms. His observations struck me as wrong-headed but not particularly offensive. I also first thought this was satire and re-read it for cues to that effect. It is not. It's a sign that religion of liberalism is so powerful even innate instincts of self-preservation must be suppressed by whatever means necessary. Suppressed if necessary by writing inane essays defending liberal dogma no matter how suicidal.

    As pointed out Italy is not sparsely populated. If one happens to see lots of open space when driving through Italian countryside on the autostrada that's because it's farmland, or too mountainous or arid for development. I think Severgnini knows this but had to put something in writing expressing his solidarity with the immigrants.

    At any time in human history up to about fifty years ago invaders such as these would have been greeted with the contemporary equivalents of minefields and machine-gun fire. Now as with many other issues the religion of liberalism contorts itself into knots to explain that invasion is an act of love.

    If one happens to see lots of open space when driving through Italian countryside on the autostrada that’s because it’s farmland, or too mountainous or arid for development.

    This is true even of Japan. Just outside of Kyoto there are mountainous areas too steep to build on. And there are remote areas of Japan where land is relatively cheap because they are far away from urban areas and there is no work but farming.

  34. “The ancient Romans used to reward their legionnaires with plots of land, through a system known as “centuriation.” The Romans adopted the system in the fourth century B.C., when Rome was still a vibrant republic. But it lasted for hundreds of years, involving former servicemen from all over the empire.”

    Hey, how did the Romans get possession of that land? Did the legionnaires find it empty and in want of settlers, or did they sort of take from somebody else? Taking land from its original inhabitants and giving it to invaders doesn’t sound like a nice way to frame immigration policy, does it?

    • Replies: @Graham
    They confiscated it from two categories of victims: (i) newly conquered peoples; (ii) large landowners who belonged to the losing political faction. In the second case, this was met with vigorous resistance and was one of the factors leading to the assassination of Julius Caesar.
  35. @Harold

    Funny how the left still holds the ‘green’ title but is trying to do everything possible to reduce the greenbelts in England to accommodate Muslims, and fill up every bit of green space with immigrants
     
    From the NYT’s comments (in reply to another comment):

    W NYC 7 hours ago

    I guess you missed the part about vast swaths of Italy that is empty. Areas that are in NEED of people.

    But it is just so much easier to be nasty I guess.
     

    Emboldening (but not capitalisation) mine.

    We can’t have empty wilderness; the earth needs peopling! A sentiment straight out of the eighteenth century.

    Think of the poor, poor magic dirt without enough people living on it.

  36. @Steve Sailer
    And large parts of Italy are steep mountains.

    And large parts of Italy are steep mountains.

    Same as Japan. Population decline can be beneficial and work for Japan as long as they put together an effective hi-tech military. Militaries need young men, so traditionally demographic heft is desirable.
    The Japanese population of 126 million lives mostly on coastal plains. Interiors of their Islands are usually mountainous.

    About 72% of Japan is mountainous, with a mountain range running through each of the main islands. Japan’s highest mountain is Mount Fuji, with an elevation of 3,776 meters….

    • Replies: @Romanian

    Militaries need young men, so traditionally demographic heft is desirable.
     
    The Japanese will make do with cyborg waifs.

    http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GcRAmDHZxHs/maxresdefault.jpg

    In all seriousness, maybe the robot revolution's effect on employment can be lessened by enlarging the military and its attendant sectors, and thereby provide a societal control valve for maintaining skills, discipline, purpose. I'd certainly take it into consideration, given the other options.
  37. There is just no other word for it: Severegnini is a mamaluke!

  38. @Harry Baldwin
    Do immigrants ever want to settle the uninhabitated areas of any nation to which they immigrate? Not to my knowledge. In the US, they all immediately settle in urban areas where social services are provided.

    I wonder if Beppe Severgnini has noticed that.

    Our rural areas have lots of Mexican/Central American immigrants working on farms and similar rural situations. Especially parts of the South, California and Texas. Western Washington state is full of Mexicans that came to work the fruit orchards. I have a feeling these rurally placed immigrants lived rurally in their homelands. They prefer living away from the big city.
    Rural USA has the social services they want same as our cities.

  39. “when Rome was still a vibrant republic.”

    Lolz

  40. @Anonymous
    Steve,

    I love you man, but you've taken a very weak swipe at what is an outrageous proposal.

    1. Romans did a lot of bad things. Therefore this particular idea is not necessarily good.

    2. This is not a good idea because there is no guarantee they would stay in rural Italy. As if it would be a good idea even if they did stay???

    The same question comes to mind when people propose ‘revitalizing’ Baltimore or Detroit by settling immigrants there. How do you get them to stay? Turn those cities into city-states with their own border controls?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    So if they would stay in the country (or wherever the target), then it WOULD be a good idea?
    , @Steve Sailer
    GPS ankle bracelets?
  41. @tanabear
    @i am typing

    Yeah, the Left has totally given up on the whole overpopulation is a bad thing. When was the last time you heard a Leftist bring up the dangers of an overpopulated planet. It has disappeared down the memory hole. Climate change, formerly known as global warming, is the cause-celebre now.

    So the writer of the above article, Beppe Severgnini, was born in Italy so he should be aware of how densely populated it is. I wonder what empty spaces he is referring to?

    From a Newsweek article:
    "Many migrants do not want to apply for asylum in Italy, because the country’s welfare system is virtually non-existent for people who have never had a job. Instead, they hope to move on to countries such as Britain and Germany where both work and welfare are easier to find."

    So if he wants migrants to feel up the empty spaces he better start advocating for more generous welfare benefits, but that would belie the notion that the come to work.

    The Left has given up on overpopulation (note I haven’t, please see the LIE or 405 during rush hour) because uncontrolled third world population growth furthers the cause of the displacement of the population that the Western Elite views as problematic.

    On the other side of the coin, the Economic Elite simply want to expand aggregate demand by any means necessary regardless of how it impacts the quality of life.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "On the other side of the coin, the Economic Elite simply want to expand aggregate demand by any means necessary regardless of how it impacts the quality of life."

    Doesn't expanding consumer demand mean increased production of more stuff, which requires energy and resources to be produced, and also means there will be eventually more garbage to end up in landfills? How does this fit in with being green and helping the environment?
  42. “Sure, there may be a few devils in the details. Would the Italians who remain in these regions welcome them?”

    Beppe Severgnine ought to ask that question of the women of the Marocchinate – the survivors of the Moroccan goumier rapists; and ask the goumier-murdered husbands of the Marocchinate.

    Wikipedia (source there quoted as Italy’s Chamber of Deputies): “Monte Cassino was captured by the Allies on May 18, 1944. The next night, thousands of Goumiers and other colonial troops scoured the slopes of the hills surrounding the town and the villages of Ciociaria (in South Latium). Over 60,000 women, ranging in age from 11 to 86, suffered from violence, when village after village came under control of the Goumiers. Civilian men who tried to protect their wives and daughters were murdered. The number of men killed has been estimated at 800.”

    (Full Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate )

    Is Sweden’s Moslem rapist scourge somehow unlike the goumiers’ treatment of the Marocchinate? What about Moslems’ rape/sex slavery of British women in Rotherham, Derby, Oxford and other English cities & towns?

    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    Funny, I'd never heard of this before. When you hear of soldiers running amok and raping at the end of WWII, it's always the Russians in Germany who are mentioned.
    , @Mr Curious
    Same as the Bolshevik Soldiers on German girls in Berlin in 1945.
  43. The roll-the-dice business plan for Playboy is getting rid of nudes. The Times is giving up logic.

  44. @Auntie Analogue

    "Sure, there may be a few devils in the details. Would the Italians who remain in these regions welcome them?"

     

    Beppe Severgnine ought to ask that question of the women of the Marocchinate - the survivors of the Moroccan goumier rapists; and ask the goumier-murdered husbands of the Marocchinate.

    Wikipedia (source there quoted as Italy's Chamber of Deputies): "Monte Cassino was captured by the Allies on May 18, 1944. The next night, thousands of Goumiers and other colonial troops scoured the slopes of the hills surrounding the town and the villages of Ciociaria (in South Latium). Over 60,000 women, ranging in age from 11 to 86, suffered from violence, when village after village came under control of the Goumiers. Civilian men who tried to protect their wives and daughters were murdered. The number of men killed has been estimated at 800."

    (Full Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate )

    Is Sweden's Moslem rapist scourge somehow unlike the goumiers' treatment of the Marocchinate? What about Moslems' rape/sex slavery of British women in Rotherham, Derby, Oxford and other English cities & towns?

    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

    Funny, I’d never heard of this before. When you hear of soldiers running amok and raping at the end of WWII, it’s always the Russians in Germany who are mentioned.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    Sophia Loren even got an Oscar for La Ciociara, which is based on that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Women

    Pretty strong stuff. You never hear about it anymore. Though I'm guessing some of the more refined and educated elderly pederasts buggering Moroccan kids are taking some sort of perverse revenge on them.

  45. @Lagertha
    whaaa? Is pot legal in Italy now? or, did I just read this post by this, this, supposed Italian man? What happens when Italian people get the munchies; will prosciutto be banned? What about soppressata, salami...serious cheeses that are not halal? Shit! all the stuff which makes me fat!

    Halal meats are just so much more of a foreign language to Italian Catholics than they can digest. I mean, Italians must get acquainted with the idea that the "sacrificial lamb" must have its blood drained out before it is "halal," yeah, I mean, the poor animal must suffer. God doesn't care what you eat, btw. Muslim customs with animals is animal abuse. Italy is doomed.

    Ben tornato, ragazza!

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    grazie, amore! I was mourning for a while. Now, how do we fix the migrant invasion?!

    I am a daughter/granddaughter/great granddaughter of engineers...so, what are the solutions to the Europe crisis of immigrants, who still seem to be ignoring the weather; and, spring (ice move) is just 6 months away? Whose got some ideas?

  46. @Dave Pinsen
    The same question comes to mind when people propose 'revitalizing' Baltimore or Detroit by settling immigrants there. How do you get them to stay? Turn those cities into city-states with their own border controls?

    So if they would stay in the country (or wherever the target), then it WOULD be a good idea?

  47. Unfortunately, this insanity isn’t confined to that one journalist. This economist sees the invasion as an opportunity to fill the 100 000 empty houses left behind by Ireland’s runaway building spree in the early 2000s.

    When I was googling my faulty recollection of the title of this article, I started to type in “let migrants…” and the first thing that popped up in the autocomplete box was “let migrants drown”.

  48. “Not foreigners claiming benefits, but workers contributing their own skills…”

    Ah, sounds like it is about the `Workers’ of the World, Unite!

  49. “…ancient Romans had it”.

    Not a lot of ‘ancient Romans’ around today, are there? Why do these liberal nincompoops think that every inch of land, every nook and cranny must have somebody living on it, or the country is sparsely populated? The U.S. is overpopulated now, yet some still want to fill in the empty spaces with whatever vagabond filler they can find.

  50. Any empty places in Syria? Still not to late to rebuild and send them all back home.

  51. @Anonymous
    There are parts of Italy that are giving away nominally free houses because of population decline:

    "A town in Italy is giving away free homes — under one condition"

    http://www.businessinsider.com/town-in-sicily-giving-away-free-houses-2015-6

    Want a free house?

    The Sicilian town of Gangi, tucked away in the central part of the country, needs newcomers to replace its vanishing populace.

    So the local government has decided to offer up vacant homes to businesses that want to spruce up the area with hotels and individuals looking for a European fixer-upper.

    In a 102-word release, Gangi — local population: 7,000 — curtly explained the terms of the deal.

    "Those who will be assigned the free houses have to bear the expenses for the transfer of ownership," the release explains.

    In other words, it's your problem now.

    The formal requirements stipulate that new owners must present a plan for renovation within one year of purchase and complete those renovations within three years.

    The fixes won't be quick. Many of the Gangi homes are dilapidated, not having seen any human attention in decades.
     

    Isn’t that annoying that they can’t just give them the damn thing? It always has to be something.

  52. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Think of the poor, poor magic dirt without enough people living on it.”

    Steve, you need to develop the new fable of the magic dirt and the immigrant(s).

    This could go in a lot of directions. How does magic dirt work? Perhaps it emits rays, call them M-rays. Immigrants haven’t grown up in resonance with the M-rays, so the M-rays bounce off the immigrants back into the magic dirt. When the M-rays hit the magic dirt they cause more M-rays. Nervous systems evolved in the dirt or at least the mud, right? So M-rays probably have beneficial effects on nervous systems. Reduce the energy required to send signals and that sort of thing. And brains are giant nervous systems. So it’s probably kinda like caffeine, only much better. Thus all the people, when they are surrounded by immigrants, will bask in the M-rays and become more intelligent. It’s like an IQ amplifier. They will rush to work on the most complex problems of the world. They will create great civilizations like maniacs. All because of M-rays that are due to immigrants.

    I’m sure you could do much better. I probably don’t have sufficient exposure to M-rays.

  53. Well Boston has 13,000 people per square mile and Italy has 116,000 square miles. So Italy has room for 1.5 billion people – using liberal math.

  54. The common denominator or common impulse is, as always, to be anti white, anti European. This NYT type stuff isn’t contradictory or incoherent at all once you accept this.

    • Agree: Drake
  55. @jesse helms think-alike
    I've been aware of Beppe S for some years, having read one of his light-hearted books about Italians and their mannerisms. His observations struck me as wrong-headed but not particularly offensive. I also first thought this was satire and re-read it for cues to that effect. It is not. It's a sign that religion of liberalism is so powerful even innate instincts of self-preservation must be suppressed by whatever means necessary. Suppressed if necessary by writing inane essays defending liberal dogma no matter how suicidal.

    As pointed out Italy is not sparsely populated. If one happens to see lots of open space when driving through Italian countryside on the autostrada that's because it's farmland, or too mountainous or arid for development. I think Severgnini knows this but had to put something in writing expressing his solidarity with the immigrants.

    At any time in human history up to about fifty years ago invaders such as these would have been greeted with the contemporary equivalents of minefields and machine-gun fire. Now as with many other issues the religion of liberalism contorts itself into knots to explain that invasion is an act of love.

    Ok, this is related to what you just said, but in a twisted way. Ahhmm, some of you know I have a background in fashion and, this may be news to you, but Italy has always had a weird relationship to its farm animals because of a LACK OF LAND, and its central reputation for fashion.

    Lambs are usually slaughtered in Italy, since there is not enough land to raise cattle (of any kind) like we have back in the west in the USA. Italians have always told me that land is scarce, therefore, most farm animals do not have a long life span. Also, Italians have always been known for their shoes (shoe making) since supple leather was abundant at all times: pig, sheep, cow.

    Lambs and baby pigs/calves were also slaughtered for food: all those delicacies we all know at venerable Italian restaurants…even dishes like calves heads and innards of hog/sheep. But, most of all, the skins were used for the shoe & upholstery business. Most people may not know that the idea of “Italian leather” for sports car seats and sofas come from this long habit of using all parts of the animal (much like “early man”) for a marketable purpose because of not having huge prairies to allow cattle to graze.

    • Replies: @Harold
    Slaughtering young calves is a side-effect of dairying. Half your calves from your dairy herds will be males which, being dairy breeds, are not suited for raising for meat.
  56. In the NYT article’s comments section, a certain Jamil Chaudri of Huntingdon, West Virginia opines:

    European culture? What is that? The European took European barbarism to the farthest corner of the globe. Interaction with superior civilizations, they gained a thin layer (or even a patina) of civilizing influences. “Invasion”? Pot calling the kettle black? It is the Europeans, who have invaded other countries for the last 500 years. Even now the invasion of Iraq, the invasion of Afghania, the invasion of Syria, are examples of the disregard for “oriental life”, for the “other”, that is the hallmark of European civilization. America is the proverbial “pied piper” that is leading the Europeans to destruction and loss of even the patina of civilization that they had gained through invading Asia, North America, South America, Africa and Australia. Oceania, I am sorry I forgot to mention you in my foregoing sentence!

    There is one Jamil Chaudri of Huntingdon, West Virginia, listed on the web as Professor of Computer Science at Marshal University. I hope someone reports this man as being a white-hating bigot.

  57. Are there empty spaces in places like Syria or Pakistan where pioneering European liberals could go and settle to get away from nasty white people? I’m sure the native population would leave them in peace to conduct their slutwalks, gay marriages, etc.

  58. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    For a least the past 100 years, the whole trend in Italian peasantry is for small-holdings to be abandoned and for former peasants to take industrial work either in Italy or further afield.
    Basically it is and was impossible to make any sort of living from these small-holdings.
    With the advent of tarriff free food imports and huge mechanized farms elsewhere in the world, the peasant life in Italy is even more untenable.

    Anyhow, I can’t begin to believe that the ‘migrants’ inundated Italy to do *that*.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    No, of course they don't want to do that. I met a half-Polish, half-Palestinian who grew up in Italy. He spent his time there smoking and selling pot. Then he beat up his step-father and fled to Canada, where he overstayed his visa and eventually got ejected. I met him in Japan, where he wanted to import his mother and sister to live with me.

    The world is f*cked... f*cked!!
  59. How about they go back and ‘settle’ their own countries? Once they man up (plenty of, err, men among the refugees) and rid those places of all the scum, there will be plenty of ‘open space’. We could do our part and supply the weapons.

  60. Actually this is a pretty clever idea by Beppe Severgnini. He is basically pulling a preemptive Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing (AFFH) on these Muslim immigrants to free his urban paradise from the obvious problematic situations these newcomers bring with them. Since wealthy urban dwellers have proven they are the “good Italians” with their Migrants Welcome banners flying high, justice requires that we dump these migrants on the backwards rural folk in order to create a teachable moment.

    Now if Beppe Severgnini were to be successful in getting an Italian AFFH he would not only improve the Socialist’s electoral possibilities in traditionally conservative rural areas, he might even buy a decade or two before his daughter or granddaughter are forced to wear the hijab when they go out to buy groceries.

  61. centuriation … Veterans would farm uncultivated areas

    So why don’t we try something similar with modern migrants?

    ‘K. I’m game. Lets see:

    A diploma was a bronze tablet issued … to an auxiliary soldier on completion of his 25-year term of service to prove the award of citizenship

    Ok, after their 25 year enlistment is up, they recieve a plot of uniimproved land and a free used tractor.

    And where did Romans garrison their soldiers? On miles-long walls like this: Hadrian’s Wall

    I’m looking foreward to all the 45 year old migrants retiring to their pastoral idyll after a long, productive career of wall building and garrisong.

  62. But… The whole point of the Roman scheme was to reward people who faithfully served the state for many years. The point was to give old soldiers a place to retire and leave a peaceful life after years of service.

    It was the Americans who gave away empty land for free. But they didn’t give it to just anybody. They gave it to Christian Europeans. And American had a lot of land. Italy doesn’t.

    I just don’t understand it. How can people seriously mouth ideas like these? I think we’ve entered a period of obscurantism, lunacy, and virulent perversity. Just like the Romans and many others did.

  63. @Dumbo
    "Living in a peaceful Italian village, with no one harassing or shooting them, is a good way to restart their lives."

    Unless they start doing the harassing or shooting, of course.

    Seriously, don't Europeans have at least the survival instinct? Why would you want to see your own country overrun by barbarians? The Romans at least fought them.

    These idiots should be sent to live in Ethiopia. What about exchanging one refugee for each pro-immigration journalist/politician, that is a proposal I can get behind.

    What about exchanging one refugee for each pro-immigration journalist/politician,

    Actually, even a 100-to-1 exchange would be worth it!

  64. @Anonymous
    For a least the past 100 years, the whole trend in Italian peasantry is for small-holdings to be abandoned and for former peasants to take industrial work either in Italy or further afield.
    Basically it is and was impossible to make any sort of living from these small-holdings.
    With the advent of tarriff free food imports and huge mechanized farms elsewhere in the world, the peasant life in Italy is even more untenable.

    Anyhow, I can't begin to believe that the 'migrants' inundated Italy to do *that*.

    No, of course they don’t want to do that. I met a half-Polish, half-Palestinian who grew up in Italy. He spent his time there smoking and selling pot. Then he beat up his step-father and fled to Canada, where he overstayed his visa and eventually got ejected. I met him in Japan, where he wanted to import his mother and sister to live with me.

    The world is f*cked… f*cked!!

  65. those who stay in Italy tend to be farmers, builders and artisans

    I.e., pre-industrial manual laborers. Europe has things like the Krupp Schaufelradbagger 288 a godzilla-sized robot that can mine as much coal as an army of unskilled laborers with shovels. Agriculture is simarly mechanized with things like giant combines that allow a single operator to harvest square miles. “Hard workers” from non-mechanized economies cant contribute much.

  66. At this point, elites and their shills are just trolling us. They know demography is destiny and that their weapons of mass migration will defeat us sooner or later. And by us I mean the dispossessed native middle classes.

    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor

    At this point, elites and their shills are just trolling us. They know demography is destiny and that their weapons of mass migration will defeat us sooner or later. And by us I mean the dispossessed native middle classes.
     
    Why not have more kids? It will make you less depressed.
    , @random observer
    Economist Man is a fool.

    In one further generation, two at most, the 'elites' will end up in the cold ground just the same as the rest of us. For whatever that's worth. I think it's funny, at any rate.
  67. @Anonymous
    Steve,

    I love you man, but you've taken a very weak swipe at what is an outrageous proposal.

    1. Romans did a lot of bad things. Therefore this particular idea is not necessarily good.

    2. This is not a good idea because there is no guarantee they would stay in rural Italy. As if it would be a good idea even if they did stay???

    1. Romans did a lot of bad things. Therefore this particular idea is not necessarily good.

    Bad things like inviting barbarians in to serve as mercenaries and to settle vacant land to prop up tax revenues to offset a decling population?

  68. Somehow I cannnot see all the Nigerians lolling outside bars and cafes wearing the latest designer gear, laying down their costly cell phones to pick up hoes and shovels. They invaded Italy to handle a different kind of hoe.

  69. Thank you for sharing this, Steve. It’s so bad it makes me feel better about the stupid things I write.

  70. Here is the breaakdown of refugees in Germany by age and sex (Jan through
    Sep 2015)

    http://www.bildblog.de/73416/wie-falsche-bilder-von-fluechtlingen-entstehen/
    Altersgruppe männlich weiblich
    bis unter 16 43.482 36.743
    16 bis unter 18 9.706 2.948
    18 bis unter 25 56.539 14.743
    25 bis unter 30 34.517 11.685
    30 bis unter 35 23.075 9.858
    35 bis unter 40 15.213 7.549
    40 bis unter 45 10.058 5.003
    45 bis unter 50 6.263 3.336
    50 bis unter 55 3.513 2.213
    55 bis unter 60 1.870 1.521
    60 bis unter 65 965 839
    65 und älter 834 967
    unbekannt 2 1
    Gesamt. 206.037 97.406

    • Replies: @5371
    Looks like a mix of two populations. A is young but demographically balanced. B is more than half the size of A and is composed exclusively of post-pubertal males, overwhelmingly of prime military age.
  71. @asdf
    "Sure, there may be a few devils in the details. Would the Italians who remain in these regions welcome them? Would the migrants even want to go there in the first place?"

    Batshit insane. It's like watching someone throw his house away at the blackjack table.

    The gambler will make justifications. Never admit loss. See this guy.

    To be fair, he also conceded that

    there would be cultural differences to iron out.

    Involving amputation, decapitation, free flying lessons for homosexuals, etc., after which all would be sweetness and light.

  72. @Anonymous
    There are parts of Italy that are giving away nominally free houses because of population decline:

    "A town in Italy is giving away free homes — under one condition"

    http://www.businessinsider.com/town-in-sicily-giving-away-free-houses-2015-6

    Want a free house?

    The Sicilian town of Gangi, tucked away in the central part of the country, needs newcomers to replace its vanishing populace.

    So the local government has decided to offer up vacant homes to businesses that want to spruce up the area with hotels and individuals looking for a European fixer-upper.

    In a 102-word release, Gangi — local population: 7,000 — curtly explained the terms of the deal.

    "Those who will be assigned the free houses have to bear the expenses for the transfer of ownership," the release explains.

    In other words, it's your problem now.

    The formal requirements stipulate that new owners must present a plan for renovation within one year of purchase and complete those renovations within three years.

    The fixes won't be quick. Many of the Gangi homes are dilapidated, not having seen any human attention in decades.
     

    Italy is a real laggard in attracting Northern European retirees.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It's probably because of high taxation.
  73. @Victor
    "The ancient Romans used to reward their legionnaires with plots of land, through a system known as “centuriation.” The Romans adopted the system in the fourth century B.C., when Rome was still a vibrant republic. But it lasted for hundreds of years, involving former servicemen from all over the empire."

    Hey, how did the Romans get possession of that land? Did the legionnaires find it empty and in want of settlers, or did they sort of take from somebody else? Taking land from its original inhabitants and giving it to invaders doesn't sound like a nice way to frame immigration policy, does it?

    They confiscated it from two categories of victims: (i) newly conquered peoples; (ii) large landowners who belonged to the losing political faction. In the second case, this was met with vigorous resistance and was one of the factors leading to the assassination of Julius Caesar.

  74. The next step is to arm illegal immigrants. You can see this in some rightist circles in Central Europe: let’s arm and train refugees and send them back to Syria to fight for their country (and presumably for freedom and democracy, and gay rights).

    Of course overwhelming majority of “Syrians” is not from Syria. And Syrian nation doesn’t exist – it is a loose confederation of clans and faiths that was once kept together by force and wise cruelty of al-Assads.

    But how long it will take for some people here, in Europe to start proposing organizing and arming immigrants in order to keep order in refugee camps? Or we could send them to patrol Union borders, doing the job Greeks, Croatians and Germans won’t do!

    We could call them… there was this Latin word… Foederati?

  75. @Anonymous
    There is simply no way you can compare Sikhs or Indians(mostly peaceful, hardworking, respectful , wanting their children to be well-educated and gainfully employed)

    Please. Sikhs and Indians are clannish, despise Whites, and foster low social trust in society. No thanks.

    Muslims at least are universalist and foster social solidarity.

    But the bottom line is that Europe and the United States need a permanent moratorium on ALL immigration.

    Do you know any Sikhs?

    I am a Sikh who grew up in England. My brother, along with three of my cousins, have white spouses. My kids have mostly white friends. Do they all despise whites?

    Sikhs in the UK have lower crime rates, and higher income and educational levels, then the average. Read the articles by Theodore Dalrymple on this topic.

    As general advice, do some research before posting on sites like this.

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    You belong in India, not England. You are not English. Your children are not English and never will be.
    , @Massimo Heitor

    I am a Sikh who grew up in England. My brother, along with three of my cousins, have white spouses. My kids have mostly white friends. Do they all despise whites?
     
    I've read the stories of Sikhs in Italy preserving Italian cheese culture. That sounds like a plausible example of a win-win multicultural immigration story. I don't think most mass immigration will go so well.
    , @Bill B.
    Great. But numbers matter. Do you think that if 12 million Africans and Arabs, say, were migrating to India every year the Sikhs there would be happy?

    (Pro rata with the UK numbers.)
  76. A land without people for a people without land? Why that sounds marvelous, darling, should work!

  77. @Clyde
    The NY Times permitted comments and as usual when it comes to immigration they run against the NYTimes op-ed or editorial. Reader comments are worth checking out on this one! Here are two of them:

    _____
    _____

    Northstar5 Los Angeles 11 hours ago

    Young Muslim men don't just draw attention to themselves by shooting cartoonists. Those Muslims are obviously in a minority. But don't discount the little ways in which they threaten or bother their host society every single day. As a (blonde) woman who spent her 20s living in France, Italy and Sweden, I can tell you that every day was something of an ordeal when I walked around town going about my business. Men harassed, accosted, chased, followed, stalked, said incredibly rude and graphic things, and generally behaved in ways so offensively sexist that I came away wondering what they were doing here in the West. If they have such contempt for us, then go away.

    100% of the time, men who acted like that were of North African or sub-Saharan origin. And it went on non-stop. French men pursue women too, but in a different and more respectful way, even when they are pushy.

    The behavior I describe was far from infrequent. And it wasn't just me. I saw it happen repeatedly to other women like me. I dressed appropriately, in case anyone things I brought it on myself. There was nothing to be done to avoid the barbaric treatment.

    It deeply soured me on societies I used to cherish, and I mourn for the Europe of my childhood with its peaceful enlightenment, egalitarianism, and respect for human and civil rights and the rule of law. As a liberal person, I also resent feeling forced into bigotry because of this behavior.

    The author should not wish these migrants on his country.
    ____
    ____

    John US Virgin Islands 14 hours ago

    As a former resident of South Dakota I have to laugh at the idea of refugees going to places that are sparsely populated. How many of the flows of Vietnamese or Cubans from the '70's went to the Dakotas or to rural areas? How many of the Irish or Italians from the 1880's went to become farmers? People want to live in cities, and want to live with people that share language and culture. Take a look at France - the Algerians and North African muslims that flooded into France live in a concentrated ring near Paris and a couple of other cities, not spread across the countryside in berets making cheese. hard to imagine the Syrians and Afghans settling down in Calabria to a life of olive oil pressing and tomato packing. I think it is a great idea - but the reality is going to be large Syrian/Middle Eastern and muslim neighborhoods in European cities, competing for public services and distinct community 'rights'.

    Men harassed, accosted, chased, followed, stalked, said incredibly rude and graphic things, and generally behaved in ways so offensively sexist that I came away wondering what they were doing here in the West.

    Sounds like a perfect fit for Italy!

  78. @Clifford Brown
    I mean, come on. Just look at this guy...

    http://www.navecorsara.it/wp/2014/03/10/beppe-severgnini-non-la-conta-giusta/

    He looks like Andrea Merkel in drag.

    Basically, Italy should award foreigners for showing up on their shores to get on welfare because 2300 years ago the Roman Empire conquered the known Western World by rewarding the Roman aristocratic elite with large land grants in exchange for their global military conquests because logic.

    He wrote for years for The Economist which is all you basically need to know. From what I can tell, he makes a living making light, slightly condescending observations about the idiosyncratic quirks of Italians. He explains to Anglo-American elite audiences why Italians are just so peculiar and fail to get with the program of open immigration, lame cars and fast food outlets.

    I went to the "Rocket" Subway shop in Rome where they offered "American style fast subway sandwiches". It was one of the best sandwiches I ever had with impeccable high quality ingredients. The "Rocket" style approach took over 30 minutes to make a sandwich...

    God, I love Italians.

    They have terrible corruption and disorganization.

    That said, they’ve chosen their way of life, it has its pluses as well as its minuses, and I can’t see any reason why we should make them change it.

  79. @Anonymous
    Steve,

    I love you man, but you've taken a very weak swipe at what is an outrageous proposal.

    1. Romans did a lot of bad things. Therefore this particular idea is not necessarily good.

    2. This is not a good idea because there is no guarantee they would stay in rural Italy. As if it would be a good idea even if they did stay???

    Dude, the Romans were awesome. From city to continental civilization in 300 years. They did bad things? Who hasn’t? They were no worse than thei contemporaries, and a lot better in many instances. And I’m not just saying that because of my handle. Engineers, soldiers, statesmen, architects, just awesome. For the socially liberal among us, they even reconciled a patriarchal society with tolerance for different sexual proclivities, as long as the family, gender roles, virtue and raising the next generation remained central.

    Then, they did us another solid by screwing themselves up in so many ways as to provide us, thousands of years later, with evidence of their folly so that the wiser among us can take heed and not repeat their many mistakes. Which we are doing either way.

  80. Here is today’s risible nonsense. Apparently, the UK is about to run out of people to cook curry unless they let in a million more Bangladeshi’s.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/05/world/europe/britain-curry-house-shortage-chefs.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    Read the whole thing. Its especially amusing toward the end when it becomes obvious that the writer has completely run out of things to fill up the space that they have been allocated by NY on this non-story

    • Replies: @oh its just me
    The NYT on immigration reminds me of the 1979 Bears offensive strategy - Walter Payton right, Walter Payton left, and Walter Payton up the middle.
    , @Clyde

    The Conservative government’s restrictions on immigration are causing an acute staff shortage, said Shahanoor Khan, the secretary general of the British Bangladeshi Caterer Association. Already, he said in an interview, a third of the nation’s 12,500 curry houses are facing closing because they cannot find chefs.
     
    Its a scam to bring in Bangladeshi and Indian immigrants AKA curry cooks. The cheap bastards who run these slop houses (curry houses) need to pay more and they will get the curry cooks they need.
    We have lots of Chinese and Indian restaurants that don't seem to have enough customers to support them. They exist for money laundering (hot money from China invested in America far away from Chinese authorities) and immigration scams. Such as we need to import in a top Taiwanese chef to turn out our unique Taiwanese cuisine
  81. @Ezra
    Here is today's risible nonsense. Apparently, the UK is about to run out of people to cook curry unless they let in a million more Bangladeshi's.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/05/world/europe/britain-curry-house-shortage-chefs.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    Read the whole thing. Its especially amusing toward the end when it becomes obvious that the writer has completely run out of things to fill up the space that they have been allocated by NY on this non-story

    The NYT on immigration reminds me of the 1979 Bears offensive strategy – Walter Payton right, Walter Payton left, and Walter Payton up the middle.

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    What about the Fridge?!!!
  82. @jesse helms think-alike
    I've been aware of Beppe S for some years, having read one of his light-hearted books about Italians and their mannerisms. His observations struck me as wrong-headed but not particularly offensive. I also first thought this was satire and re-read it for cues to that effect. It is not. It's a sign that religion of liberalism is so powerful even innate instincts of self-preservation must be suppressed by whatever means necessary. Suppressed if necessary by writing inane essays defending liberal dogma no matter how suicidal.

    As pointed out Italy is not sparsely populated. If one happens to see lots of open space when driving through Italian countryside on the autostrada that's because it's farmland, or too mountainous or arid for development. I think Severgnini knows this but had to put something in writing expressing his solidarity with the immigrants.

    At any time in human history up to about fifty years ago invaders such as these would have been greeted with the contemporary equivalents of minefields and machine-gun fire. Now as with many other issues the religion of liberalism contorts itself into knots to explain that invasion is an act of love.

    If one happens to see lots of open space when driving through Italian countryside on the autostrada that’s because it’s farmland, or too mountainous or arid for development. I think Severgnini knows this but had to put something in writing expressing his solidarity with the immigrants.

    He almost certainly does. About fifteen years ago, I had this Palermitan girlfriend who was trying to get me to learn some Italian, so she gave me a Beppe Severgnini book, Un Italiano In America. It’s basically a lot of Bill Bryson-style fish-out-of-water observational comedy on stuff like why do American houses all have non-functional shutters.

    It’s fine and perfectly well-observed, if predictably tendentious. If the guy is actually pretty good at noticing things and has a normally well-developed sense of humor, what made him generate something like this piece?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    A clever Italian who tells rich English-speakers what they want to hear?

    Isn't there a character like that in about half of all Merchant-Ivory movies?
  83. @Anonymous
    There is simply no way you can compare Sikhs or Indians(mostly peaceful, hardworking, respectful , wanting their children to be well-educated and gainfully employed)

    Please. Sikhs and Indians are clannish, despise Whites, and foster low social trust in society. No thanks.

    Muslims at least are universalist and foster social solidarity.

    But the bottom line is that Europe and the United States need a permanent moratorium on ALL immigration.

    Agree with the first. Disagree with the second. Social solidarity is easy when you feel like a minority on a mission, but some are always more equal than others even in the Muslim world, between nations and inside nations. Let’s just say you won’t be seeing Saudis blowing themselves up with bombs in the Middle East, it’s mostly Libyans.

    https://pando.com/2014/03/28/the-war-nerd-who-exactly-are-the-jihadis-and-why-arent-there-more-of-them/

    Thanks to a lucky find made by US forces in Iraq, there’s some good information about the origin of the “foreign fighters,” or jihadis, who fought in Iraq. In 2007, American troops raided a house in Sinjar, in northwestern Iraq up agains the Syrian border.

    They found a list of about 700 jihadis who were fighting with ISI, the parent group of ISIS, the Iraqi/Syrian jihadi faction that controls most of the countryside in eastern Syria. Brian Fishman, one of the better American analysts, co-authored a report based on 606 jihadis’ personnel records.

    Some of the results are not surprising, like the fact that Saudis made up 41% of the names on the Sinjar List. Saudi Arabia is in a world of its own, as I’ve written before—and fighting a losing battle to maintain that world against a global mall culture.
    So it’s not surprising that so many Saudis find a career in jihad. What is surprising is that Saudi Arabia was only the second-ranked country on the Sinjar List, per capita. Libya, with a population less than a quarter of Saudi Arabia’s, contributed 18.8% of the fighters on the List. Even more impressive, almost nine out of ten Libyans listed their role in Iraq as “suicide commando,” rather than mere “fighter.”Most surprising of all, the #1 hometown for jihadis on the Sinjar List was Darnah (sometimes spelled “Derna”), a small city in Eastern Libya. 52 of the 606 jihadis on the List were from Darnah. Riyadh, the second-ranked home town with 51 volunteers, is more than 70 times bigger than Darnah, so there’s very clearly something special about Darnah. Writers from western media booked tickets there after the Sinjar List’s breakdown was publicized, hoping to find what made this “sleepy town” such prime territory for jihad, and came up with various answers ranging from the total absence of a local economy to the region’s long tradition of resistance, including the honor of being among the first places invaded by the USMC during the Barbary Coast wars (Remember “the halls of Tripoli”? Darnah.)

    As far as I can tell, the ingredients for a much, much bigger, scarier jihad are everywhere in the Muslim world. For a male raised to expect the eternal validity of partriarchal norms, the shocks are non-stop. You don’t even know you’re shocking the local sensibilities until you see the reaction. I saw a Western woman, unveiled, sit down on a bench in the Najran airport. She wasn’t trying to make a gesture or strike a blow against patriarchy; she was just hot and tired after flying from London to Riyadh, then getting dumped at the end of the world to wait for a van to pick her (and the rest of us) up from the airport.

    But there was an old man on that bench, also waiting to be picked up. He was at one end and she sat down at the other—there was nothing like physical contact, as we would define it. But he was so outraged that he got up, leaning on his cane, and stood a few meters away, clearly in pain but preferring to stand on his one good leg rather than share a bench with an unveiled female.

    Multiply shocks like that by the hundred, day after day—every commercial your kids are watching, every movie they rent, everything they learn at school—and you get a sense of where jihad comes from—or could be expected to come from. Because it just isn’t happening to the extent you’d expect. If my culture had to undergo that level of constant alienation…well, I don’t think we’d put up with it. The population crisis would be solved in a matter of minutes–let’s just put it that way.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Islam also tells its followers that it is the superior way. Yet they see that everything they have, from cell phones to the makings of IEDs to AK-47s, comes from the Dar al-Harab world of the infidel.

    Psychologists call this cognitive dissonance. Their religion cannot be untrue; the rest of the world must be wrong. It is especially pronounced among the educated Muslims who have lived and studied in the West, .e.g., Mohammed Atta.
  84. @slumber_j

    If one happens to see lots of open space when driving through Italian countryside on the autostrada that’s because it’s farmland, or too mountainous or arid for development. I think Severgnini knows this but had to put something in writing expressing his solidarity with the immigrants.
     
    He almost certainly does. About fifteen years ago, I had this Palermitan girlfriend who was trying to get me to learn some Italian, so she gave me a Beppe Severgnini book, Un Italiano In America. It's basically a lot of Bill Bryson-style fish-out-of-water observational comedy on stuff like why do American houses all have non-functional shutters.

    It's fine and perfectly well-observed, if predictably tendentious. If the guy is actually pretty good at noticing things and has a normally well-developed sense of humor, what made him generate something like this piece?

    A clever Italian who tells rich English-speakers what they want to hear?

    Isn’t there a character like that in about half of all Merchant-Ivory movies?

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    Yeah: it's like Dante...but with a twist!
    , @Auntie Analogue

    "A clever Italian who tells rich English-speakers what they want to hear?

    Isn’t there a character like that in about half of all Merchant-Ivory movies?"

     

    In Evelyn Waugh's Brideshead Revisited there's the worldly Clara, who is fully aware of her own sins, telling Charles Ryder what he doesn't want to hear.
  85. @Steve Sailer
    A clever Italian who tells rich English-speakers what they want to hear?

    Isn't there a character like that in about half of all Merchant-Ivory movies?

    Yeah: it’s like Dante…but with a twist!

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    By the way, it occurs to me that I neglected to translate the title of that Severgnini book. For any non-Italophones, Un Italiano in America translates roughly to An Italian in America.

    The whole thing is a little more complicated than that with all the gender business, but I think my translation at least gives the sense of it.
  86. @Harry Baldwin
    Do immigrants ever want to settle the uninhabitated areas of any nation to which they immigrate? Not to my knowledge. In the US, they all immediately settle in urban areas where social services are provided.

    I wonder if Beppe Severgnini has noticed that.

    The age of settlement is over, aside from Israel and, maybe, in the future, Siberia and parts of Africa. Today’s refugees and migrants are not European settlers going to the Americas.

    People have many expectations regarding standards of living and technologies which require pre-built infrastructure to handle. You can have people moving in and improving or enlarging an existing city or town, because it is already there and it already has social capital, etc. But what is dead is the idea that you move somewhere where there aren’t even roads to eke out an existence on cheap land, wearing homespun and crapping in a ditch until you can set up a more diverse economy or trade with elsewhere based on having some good or commodity they would want (fat chance of it being agricultural given today’s prices and capital requirements and global production chains). Only China’s version, albeit poorly implemented, of building something huge from the ground with infrastructure built in, including jobs for skilled workforce, can provide colonization within the constraints of today.

    I’d like to see the Russians become engrossed in settling Siberia for its own sake. That might even take the heat of Eastern Europe, since they would have a project occupying them. If people a few hundred years ago would have had some of our technology, they would have settled it like nobody’s business. There’s something about a frontier and watching something grow from scratch that appeals to a certain kind of man.

  87. @slumber_j
    Yeah: it's like Dante...but with a twist!

    By the way, it occurs to me that I neglected to translate the title of that Severgnini book. For any non-Italophones, Un Italiano in America translates roughly to An Italian in America.

    The whole thing is a little more complicated than that with all the gender business, but I think my translation at least gives the sense of it.

  88. @Clyde

    And large parts of Italy are steep mountains.
     
    Same as Japan. Population decline can be beneficial and work for Japan as long as they put together an effective hi-tech military. Militaries need young men, so traditionally demographic heft is desirable.
    The Japanese population of 126 million lives mostly on coastal plains. Interiors of their Islands are usually mountainous.

    About 72% of Japan is mountainous, with a mountain range running through each of the main islands. Japan's highest mountain is Mount Fuji, with an elevation of 3,776 meters....
     

    Militaries need young men, so traditionally demographic heft is desirable.

    The Japanese will make do with cyborg waifs.

    In all seriousness, maybe the robot revolution’s effect on employment can be lessened by enlarging the military and its attendant sectors, and thereby provide a societal control valve for maintaining skills, discipline, purpose. I’d certainly take it into consideration, given the other options.

  89. @Dave Pinsen
    The same question comes to mind when people propose 'revitalizing' Baltimore or Detroit by settling immigrants there. How do you get them to stay? Turn those cities into city-states with their own border controls?

    GPS ankle bracelets?

    • Replies: @Hokie
    Soviet style internal passports and borders would not be a bad idea at this point. You could even advertise it as a way to prevent white flight.
  90. @Harry Baldwin
    Do immigrants ever want to settle the uninhabitated areas of any nation to which they immigrate? Not to my knowledge. In the US, they all immediately settle in urban areas where social services are provided.

    I wonder if Beppe Severgnini has noticed that.

    Canada has lots and lots of empty land but most of its immigrants settle in the greater Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver metropolises.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Canada's open spaces, where I have traveled many times to fish, are not farm lands. The area above Toronto is considered Taiga, with a thin soil layer, scrub forests and long winters. However, a small population makes a living harvesting pulp timber and mining. Canada opened it's arms to the Tamils fleeing Sri Lanka, but the Tamils wanted their own country on Canadian soil, who knew.
    , @random observer
    Word.

    But it's long since that started applying to smaller or mid-size cities, or larger cities off the originally-beaten track, just as much- Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Hamilton, Windsor among them.

    If you want to see Ontario profonde, for example, you want small towns, and even then you never quite know. Small towns off the main highways most likely.

    In Western Canada, immigration-based diversity is still a little bit more of an urban phenomenon. If you go out of the main centres in Alberta or Saskatchewan [never been to Manitoba] or BC [for sure] diversity is provided courtesy of Indians. Our original Indians. Can't complain. Whatever else may be true, they were still here first.

    About 5 years ago [tempus fugit, yikes] I had occasion to visit some sites associated with Canada's nuclear industry including mines and processing sites in northern Saskatchewan. Small company plane [nice one though], airstrip that looked like it was on Mars, the whole nine yards. The sign above the company bus driver's seat [the usual sort of message- Hello, your driver is x- or some such] was in three languages. English, French and, according to the girl driving, Cree. I'm OK with that sort of thing.
  91. @Rob McX
    Funny, I'd never heard of this before. When you hear of soldiers running amok and raping at the end of WWII, it's always the Russians in Germany who are mentioned.

    Sophia Loren even got an Oscar for La Ciociara, which is based on that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Women

    Pretty strong stuff. You never hear about it anymore. Though I’m guessing some of the more refined and educated elderly pederasts buggering Moroccan kids are taking some sort of perverse revenge on them.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    In today's news from London, an Algerian immigrant, who has only been in the UK for a couple of weeks, has just been arrested for a one-man sex assault wave on women - on their doorsteps - which had terrorized the Clapham district of London in the past week.
    , @WhatEvvs
    You don't hear much about the Libyan soldiers who raped women AND men in UK,and it happened recently. Just google Libyan soldiers and you'll see what I mean, but here's the best part:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/30/libyan-soldiers-assaulted-women-seek-asylum-uk

    They'll probably get it because we are comatose.
  92. @SFG
    It would *work*, it just wouldn't be Italy anymore.

    What’s the problem? It’s not like we’re talking about an important country which also happens to begin with the letter I that *needs* to have its own ethnic identity…

    • Replies: @SFG
    I don't see a conflict here.
  93. @oh its just me
    The NYT on immigration reminds me of the 1979 Bears offensive strategy - Walter Payton right, Walter Payton left, and Walter Payton up the middle.

    What about the Fridge?!!!

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    Oh: '79. Never mind.
  94. @slumber_j
    What about the Fridge?!!!

    Oh: ’79. Never mind.

  95. @Alek
    Do you know any Sikhs?

    I am a Sikh who grew up in England. My brother, along with three of my cousins, have white spouses. My kids have mostly white friends. Do they all despise whites?

    Sikhs in the UK have lower crime rates, and higher income and educational levels, then the average. Read the articles by Theodore Dalrymple on this topic.

    As general advice, do some research before posting on sites like this.

    You belong in India, not England. You are not English. Your children are not English and never will be.

  96. @LondonBob
    Italy is a real laggard in attracting Northern European retirees.

    It’s probably because of high taxation.

  97. @Romanian
    Sophia Loren even got an Oscar for La Ciociara, which is based on that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Women

    Pretty strong stuff. You never hear about it anymore. Though I'm guessing some of the more refined and educated elderly pederasts buggering Moroccan kids are taking some sort of perverse revenge on them.

    In today’s news from London, an Algerian immigrant, who has only been in the UK for a couple of weeks, has just been arrested for a one-man sex assault wave on women – on their doorsteps – which had terrorized the Clapham district of London in the past week.

  98. @Auntie Analogue

    "Sure, there may be a few devils in the details. Would the Italians who remain in these regions welcome them?"

     

    Beppe Severgnine ought to ask that question of the women of the Marocchinate - the survivors of the Moroccan goumier rapists; and ask the goumier-murdered husbands of the Marocchinate.

    Wikipedia (source there quoted as Italy's Chamber of Deputies): "Monte Cassino was captured by the Allies on May 18, 1944. The next night, thousands of Goumiers and other colonial troops scoured the slopes of the hills surrounding the town and the villages of Ciociaria (in South Latium). Over 60,000 women, ranging in age from 11 to 86, suffered from violence, when village after village came under control of the Goumiers. Civilian men who tried to protect their wives and daughters were murdered. The number of men killed has been estimated at 800."

    (Full Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate )

    Is Sweden's Moslem rapist scourge somehow unlike the goumiers' treatment of the Marocchinate? What about Moslems' rape/sex slavery of British women in Rotherham, Derby, Oxford and other English cities & towns?

    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

    Same as the Bolshevik Soldiers on German girls in Berlin in 1945.

    • Replies: @Auntie Analogue
    "Same as the Bolshevik Soldiers on German girls in Berlin in 1945."

    Red Army soldiers raped German girls not by Russian religion or custom, but for revenge - often winked at by the Russians' own superiors - for Germany's invasion of Russia. Moslems, on the other hand, rape because for fourteen centuries Islam has given Moslems dispensation to rape kuffar women.
  99. Notice how they always relocate the migrants to places where their political enemies live, small vilages who presumably vote for conservative parties. Bavaria, which is the region of Germany which receives most Germans, is the electoral stronhold of the right-wing Christian Social Union, while the Po Valley, where this guy dreams of sending Africans votes for the separatist Lega Nord.

    This is not parady, neither it is stupid in the short term, it’s actually a very smart way to destroy your enemies, settle a mercenary people among them loyal directly to you, the Romans also did that, he forgot to mention that part of the reason why the Roman state sent legionaries to settle in distant regions was because they could have an armed force loyal to Rome in different areas, migrants are no different, they are loyals to the NGOs and to the political movement that helped them move and they vote accordingly.

    Of course, merely opposing them in such terms wouldn’t work, the solution, as PUA teach us, is to agree and amplify. “Yes, why not, let’s open our borders and receive migrants, we could open refugee camps at universities and bohemian neighborhoods in big cities”, see how quickly would the intellectual left change their opinion then.

    That would be a good way for a shrewd right-wing politician to punish the left, Orban for example should move the refugee camps in Hungary to the campus of the University of Budapest, let they rape a few female students and harass some professors to change the intellectual climate, because with that climate against him, everything is futile in the long term.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    Notice how they always relocate the migrants to places where their political enemies live, small vilages who presumably vote for conservative parties. Bavaria, which is the region of Germany which receives most Germans, is the electoral stronhold of the right-wing Christian Social Union, while the Po Valley, where this guy dreams of sending Africans votes for the separatist Lega Nord.
     
    The CSU is pathetic--disgusting. They have been given a golden opportunity here. They could simply tell Merkel that Bavaria refuses to take *any* of this refugee garbage. If Merkel tries to insist, threaten to leave the union. This would have the effect of either ending Merkel's policy, bringing down the government or Freistaat Bayern leaving the federal union. All improvements on the current situation. And even better, the uber-message would be that the national and EU elites do not get to completely boss around local regions\people.

    But like we see from "conservative" parties, everywhere--nothing. No balls. No action. No willingness to stand up for the people, for their own voters. Just go along, get along timeserving. (Who's going to kick 'em out ... they've been in power since the 50s.)

    Talk about wasting an opportunity to do some conservative good work, to actually *conserve* something.

    (Anecdote: In Bavaria for a few days back in September. Our friends we stayed with, the guy--near retirement age now--is a big believer in the European project. Thinks the Schengen "borderless" travel an achievement. Happy to be a European. But his elder son sounded like a Bavarian nationalist.)
  100. …it occurs to me that the ancient Romans, as they so often do, might offer a solution.

    Indeed the do, but it’s a “solution” that Europe’s rulers (and ours) have been applying for a while now. In the declining days of empire the imperial powers made all sorts of expedient and self-serving deals with the invaders at the expense of the provincials. E.g.:

    “The imperial government was entirely capable of selling its provincial subjects downriver, in the interests of short-term political and military gain. In 475, despite earlier heroic resistance to the Visigoths, Clermont was surrendered to them by the imperial government, in exchange for the more important towns of Arles and Marseille. Sidonius Apollinaris, bishop of Clermont and a leader of the resistance to the Visigoths, recorded his bitterness: ‘We have been enslaved, as the price of other people’s security.’ Sidonius’ opposition to this policy of appeasement proved correct–within a year, Arles and Marseille had fallen back into Visigothic hands, this time definitively.” [Emphasis added. From Bryan Ward-Perkins’ The Fall of Rome and the End of Civilization. Under a sub-section titled “Selling out the Provincials”]

    To be fair to the Roman imperial operators, corrupt and indifferent to the welfare of citizens though they were, they probably had more of clue about what they were trying to pull off than our PTBs do. (And nice to see a Christian bishop actively resisting the invasion instead of abetting the sell-out.)

  101. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Here’s a comment from a liberal, feminst NYT reader:

    “Lilith Texas 12 hours ago

    “I’m liberal, and I’m a feminist. I abhor the misogyny that Muslim migrants bring with them to the West. They do not assimilate by treating women as equals. I also abhor the New York Times’ lack of concern for women’s rights. Bringing in whole communities of Muslims to resettle the Italian countryside would be horrific. Then Italy would be dealing with an increase in rapes, honor killings, polygamy, etc. The New York Times would then fail to report on the problems this influx of Muslims would cause. If they ever did mention the problems, the New York Times would blame Italy for failing to properly assimilate the Muslim migrants. It’s disgusting how the liberal Western media won’t stand up for the progressive achievements, like women’s rights and gay rights, it has made.”

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    I think the reasoning behind importing millions of backward misogynists is this: In global terms, you're not increasing the persecution of women by doing so, you're just redistributing it. To the one-world liberal, if Pakistanis are going to carry out honour killings, they might as well be doing it in Yorkshire as in Karachi.
  102. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Clifford Brown
    The Left has given up on overpopulation (note I haven't, please see the LIE or 405 during rush hour) because uncontrolled third world population growth furthers the cause of the displacement of the population that the Western Elite views as problematic.

    On the other side of the coin, the Economic Elite simply want to expand aggregate demand by any means necessary regardless of how it impacts the quality of life.

    “On the other side of the coin, the Economic Elite simply want to expand aggregate demand by any means necessary regardless of how it impacts the quality of life.”

    Doesn’t expanding consumer demand mean increased production of more stuff, which requires energy and resources to be produced, and also means there will be eventually more garbage to end up in landfills? How does this fit in with being green and helping the environment?

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    Doesn’t expanding consumer demand mean increased production of more stuff, which requires energy and resources to be produced, and also means there will be eventually more garbage to end up in landfills? How does this fit in with being green and helping the environment?
     
    It doesn't, which is why the environmental movement has tiptoed away from causes like flora and fauna preservation and wilderness areas, to ambiguous, incorporeal "climate change."

    Globalism vs. white backpackers, guess who's going to win?
    , @ben tillman

    “On the other side of the coin, the Economic Elite simply want to expand aggregate demand by any means necessary regardless of how it impacts the quality of life.”

    Doesn’t expanding consumer demand mean increased production of more stuff, which requires energy and resources to be produced, and also means there will be eventually more garbage to end up in landfills? How does this fit in with being green and helping the environment?
     

    It doesn't fit with it at all, because the Left has never been interested in being green. "Green" (or conservation), as Thorstein Veblen explained 100+ years ago, is a conservative thing.

    And you are right about "the production of more stuff". Our rulers produce stuff and cause "growth" by expediting the pumping of petroleum out of the ground. Our rulers are literally a cancer feeding on petroleum. And a byproduct of the "growth" is the destruction of the race of technologists, the goose that lays the golden eggs .

    In other words, this cancer is destroying the human race's two most precious resources.

  103. @Harold
    Anti-racism is the great evil of our age.

    Anti-racism is the great evil of our age.

    I think Leftism is the great evil of our age, in all its various embodiments; so-called Liberalism is its current embodiment in the West.

    Anti-racism, in my view, is a tenet of Liberalism, and one of its most destructive.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    "Anti-racism" is just race nationalism for non-whites, mostly. Only white liberal dupes take it at face value. They think it means universalism and race equality for all.
  104. WhatEvvs [AKA "Internet Addict"] says:
    @Steve Sailer
    And large parts of Italy are steep mountains.

    [sarcasmalert]Then stick ’em in the mountains, in camps, far away from everyone else. Ya want to live in Italy? This is Italy![/sarcasmalert]

  105. AS Europe frets over what to do about the hundreds of thousands of refugees pouring onto the Continent, it occurs to me that the ancient Romans, as they so often do, might offer a solution.

    You mean the solution of how the Empire sat back helplessly when the Alans, Suevi, and Vandals crossed the frozen Rhine en masse on December 31, 406, and proceeding to settle on Roman lands (bringing an effective end to the Roman Empire in those places where they settled)?

  106. @BB753
    At this point, elites and their shills are just trolling us. They know demography is destiny and that their weapons of mass migration will defeat us sooner or later. And by us I mean the dispossessed native middle classes.

    At this point, elites and their shills are just trolling us. They know demography is destiny and that their weapons of mass migration will defeat us sooner or later. And by us I mean the dispossessed native middle classes.

    Why not have more kids? It will make you less depressed.

    • Replies: @BB753
    I wish I could afford it. I already have a kid. Alas, I'm divorced and broke.
  107. WhatEvvs [AKA "Internet Addict"] says:
    @Romanian
    Sophia Loren even got an Oscar for La Ciociara, which is based on that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Women

    Pretty strong stuff. You never hear about it anymore. Though I'm guessing some of the more refined and educated elderly pederasts buggering Moroccan kids are taking some sort of perverse revenge on them.

    You don’t hear much about the Libyan soldiers who raped women AND men in UK,and it happened recently. Just google Libyan soldiers and you’ll see what I mean, but here’s the best part:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/30/libyan-soldiers-assaulted-women-seek-asylum-uk

    They’ll probably get it because we are comatose.

  108. @Ezra
    Here is today's risible nonsense. Apparently, the UK is about to run out of people to cook curry unless they let in a million more Bangladeshi's.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/05/world/europe/britain-curry-house-shortage-chefs.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    Read the whole thing. Its especially amusing toward the end when it becomes obvious that the writer has completely run out of things to fill up the space that they have been allocated by NY on this non-story

    The Conservative government’s restrictions on immigration are causing an acute staff shortage, said Shahanoor Khan, the secretary general of the British Bangladeshi Caterer Association. Already, he said in an interview, a third of the nation’s 12,500 curry houses are facing closing because they cannot find chefs.

    Its a scam to bring in Bangladeshi and Indian immigrants AKA curry cooks. The cheap bastards who run these slop houses (curry houses) need to pay more and they will get the curry cooks they need.
    We have lots of Chinese and Indian restaurants that don’t seem to have enough customers to support them. They exist for money laundering (hot money from China invested in America far away from Chinese authorities) and immigration scams. Such as we need to import in a top Taiwanese chef to turn out our unique Taiwanese cuisine

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Bangladeshis have the highest rate of unemployment of any ethnicity in the UK.
    In fact, most adult Bangladeshis do not work.

    The sheet effrontery of Bangladeshis in the UK lying about a 'shortage' of people 'qualified' to boil rice is breathtaking, but I could imagine the stupid bastards of New Labour falling for this scam hook, line and sinker.
  109. @Rob McX

    “Never go full retard.” Robert Downey, Jr. as Kirk Lazarus in Tropic Thunder.

    Malcolm Muggeridge must be rolling in his grave.

  110. @Romanian
    Agree with the first. Disagree with the second. Social solidarity is easy when you feel like a minority on a mission, but some are always more equal than others even in the Muslim world, between nations and inside nations. Let's just say you won't be seeing Saudis blowing themselves up with bombs in the Middle East, it's mostly Libyans.

    https://pando.com/2014/03/28/the-war-nerd-who-exactly-are-the-jihadis-and-why-arent-there-more-of-them/


    Thanks to a lucky find made by US forces in Iraq, there’s some good information about the origin of the "foreign fighters," or jihadis, who fought in Iraq. In 2007, American troops raided a house in Sinjar, in northwestern Iraq up agains the Syrian border.

    They found a list of about 700 jihadis who were fighting with ISI, the parent group of ISIS, the Iraqi/Syrian jihadi faction that controls most of the countryside in eastern Syria. Brian Fishman, one of the better American analysts, co-authored a report based on 606 jihadis’ personnel records.

    Some of the results are not surprising, like the fact that Saudis made up 41% of the names on the Sinjar List. Saudi Arabia is in a world of its own, as I’ve written before—and fighting a losing battle to maintain that world against a global mall culture.
    So it’s not surprising that so many Saudis find a career in jihad. What is surprising is that Saudi Arabia was only the second-ranked country on the Sinjar List, per capita. Libya, with a population less than a quarter of Saudi Arabia’s, contributed 18.8% of the fighters on the List. Even more impressive, almost nine out of ten Libyans listed their role in Iraq as "suicide commando," rather than mere "fighter."Most surprising of all, the #1 hometown for jihadis on the Sinjar List was Darnah (sometimes spelled "Derna"), a small city in Eastern Libya. 52 of the 606 jihadis on the List were from Darnah. Riyadh, the second-ranked home town with 51 volunteers, is more than 70 times bigger than Darnah, so there’s very clearly something special about Darnah. Writers from western media booked tickets there after the Sinjar List’s breakdown was publicized, hoping to find what made this "sleepy town" such prime territory for jihad, and came up with various answers ranging from the total absence of a local economy to the region’s long tradition of resistance, including the honor of being among the first places invaded by the USMC during the Barbary Coast wars (Remember "the halls of Tripoli"? Darnah.)

    As far as I can tell, the ingredients for a much, much bigger, scarier jihad are everywhere in the Muslim world. For a male raised to expect the eternal validity of partriarchal norms, the shocks are non-stop. You don’t even know you’re shocking the local sensibilities until you see the reaction. I saw a Western woman, unveiled, sit down on a bench in the Najran airport. She wasn’t trying to make a gesture or strike a blow against patriarchy; she was just hot and tired after flying from London to Riyadh, then getting dumped at the end of the world to wait for a van to pick her (and the rest of us) up from the airport.

    But there was an old man on that bench, also waiting to be picked up. He was at one end and she sat down at the other—there was nothing like physical contact, as we would define it. But he was so outraged that he got up, leaning on his cane, and stood a few meters away, clearly in pain but preferring to stand on his one good leg rather than share a bench with an unveiled female.

    Multiply shocks like that by the hundred, day after day—every commercial your kids are watching, every movie they rent, everything they learn at school—and you get a sense of where jihad comes from—or could be expected to come from. Because it just isn’t happening to the extent you’d expect. If my culture had to undergo that level of constant alienation…well, I don’t think we’d put up with it. The population crisis would be solved in a matter of minutes--let’s just put it that way.
     

    Islam also tells its followers that it is the superior way. Yet they see that everything they have, from cell phones to the makings of IEDs to AK-47s, comes from the Dar al-Harab world of the infidel.

    Psychologists call this cognitive dissonance. Their religion cannot be untrue; the rest of the world must be wrong. It is especially pronounced among the educated Muslims who have lived and studied in the West, .e.g., Mohammed Atta.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    Exactly. This hubris of Muslims, constantly, with no consideration/basic memory about their total dependency, in all of their lands, on western technology, just enlarges my atavistic and visceral hatred of anything about fracking Islam. Everyone hates the west until they need the west.
    , @Romanian
    I read Christopher Caldwell's book, "Reflections on the Revolutions in Europe". He has a segment there where he discusses this issue, based on what Muslim intellectuals in Europe have said. The way he presented it, there is no cognitive dissonance. It is a more European mode of thought to view something that gives better results as being intrinsically better. The Muslim world envies the power of European toys and the living standards they afford, but does not conclude that it must be more European, except in the superficial sense, to have them. Power is distinguished from wisdom, and wisdom only comes from their religion, while power must always be subordinated to wisdom. I can't blame them for thinking that, when they see how the Euros receive them and how they abase themselves and their culture to accommodate them.
    , @FineSwine
    Muslims believe that all that's good about western society (including science and technology) has Islamic origins, while all that's bad is uniquely western. So there's no 'cognitive dissonance'. The failures of their countries are attributed to insufficient devotion to Islam.
  111. @Horseball
    Here is the breaakdown of refugees in Germany by age and sex (Jan through
    Sep 2015)

    http://www.bildblog.de/73416/wie-falsche-bilder-von-fluechtlingen-entstehen/
    Altersgruppe männlich weiblich
    bis unter 16 43.482 36.743
    16 bis unter 18 9.706 2.948
    18 bis unter 25 56.539 14.743
    25 bis unter 30 34.517 11.685
    30 bis unter 35 23.075 9.858
    35 bis unter 40 15.213 7.549
    40 bis unter 45 10.058 5.003
    45 bis unter 50 6.263 3.336
    50 bis unter 55 3.513 2.213
    55 bis unter 60 1.870 1.521
    60 bis unter 65 965 839
    65 und älter 834 967
    unbekannt 2 1
    Gesamt. 206.037 97.406

    Looks like a mix of two populations. A is young but demographically balanced. B is more than half the size of A and is composed exclusively of post-pubertal males, overwhelmingly of prime military age.

  112. The ancient Romans had farsighted political leadership? The western Romans did, really?!

    • Replies: @Romanian
    They did until they didn't.
  113. @Alek
    Do you know any Sikhs?

    I am a Sikh who grew up in England. My brother, along with three of my cousins, have white spouses. My kids have mostly white friends. Do they all despise whites?

    Sikhs in the UK have lower crime rates, and higher income and educational levels, then the average. Read the articles by Theodore Dalrymple on this topic.

    As general advice, do some research before posting on sites like this.

    I am a Sikh who grew up in England. My brother, along with three of my cousins, have white spouses. My kids have mostly white friends. Do they all despise whites?

    I’ve read the stories of Sikhs in Italy preserving Italian cheese culture. That sounds like a plausible example of a win-win multicultural immigration story. I don’t think most mass immigration will go so well.

  114. @Anonymous
    Here's a comment from a liberal, feminst NYT reader:

    "Lilith Texas 12 hours ago

    "I'm liberal, and I'm a feminist. I abhor the misogyny that Muslim migrants bring with them to the West. They do not assimilate by treating women as equals. I also abhor the New York Times' lack of concern for women's rights. Bringing in whole communities of Muslims to resettle the Italian countryside would be horrific. Then Italy would be dealing with an increase in rapes, honor killings, polygamy, etc. The New York Times would then fail to report on the problems this influx of Muslims would cause. If they ever did mention the problems, the New York Times would blame Italy for failing to properly assimilate the Muslim migrants. It's disgusting how the liberal Western media won't stand up for the progressive achievements, like women's rights and gay rights, it has made."

    I think the reasoning behind importing millions of backward misogynists is this: In global terms, you’re not increasing the persecution of women by doing so, you’re just redistributing it. To the one-world liberal, if Pakistanis are going to carry out honour killings, they might as well be doing it in Yorkshire as in Karachi.

    • Replies: @andy russia

    To the one-world liberal, if Pakistanis are going to carry out honour killings, they might as well be doing it in Yorkshire as in Karachi.
     
    good point! SJWs are globalists first and everything else, second. italics mine:

    [..]We are left, I think, with Singerian moral universalism, which is the grossest of sentimentality with all the fun taken out. Peter Singer is a strict utilitarian who believes in the felicific calculus: that to behave ethically one's actions must be calculated to bring about the maximum of pleasure and the minimum of pain. Since everyone is to count equally, it does not matter whose [pleasure] is maximised and whose pain is minimised.
    Given the choice between pleasing his son with a small gift that he does not need, and saving the sight of a little boy with antibiotic ointment eight thousands miles away, it is clear what the decent parent ought to do. [...]
    This is all preposterous, psychologically, theoretically and practically. Surely there is no one in the world who has no partiality for the people whom he knows and likes, as compared to those whom he either dislikes or are completely unknown to him. Moreover, if there were such a person, we should consider him at the best to be mentally ill, as suffering from a peculiar form of Asperger's syndrome, and at the worst to be a monster of inhumanity. [...]

    --Dalrymple, "Spoilt Rotten: The Toxic Cult of Sentimentality"
     

  115. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Clyde

    The Conservative government’s restrictions on immigration are causing an acute staff shortage, said Shahanoor Khan, the secretary general of the British Bangladeshi Caterer Association. Already, he said in an interview, a third of the nation’s 12,500 curry houses are facing closing because they cannot find chefs.
     
    Its a scam to bring in Bangladeshi and Indian immigrants AKA curry cooks. The cheap bastards who run these slop houses (curry houses) need to pay more and they will get the curry cooks they need.
    We have lots of Chinese and Indian restaurants that don't seem to have enough customers to support them. They exist for money laundering (hot money from China invested in America far away from Chinese authorities) and immigration scams. Such as we need to import in a top Taiwanese chef to turn out our unique Taiwanese cuisine

    Bangladeshis have the highest rate of unemployment of any ethnicity in the UK.
    In fact, most adult Bangladeshis do not work.

    The sheet effrontery of Bangladeshis in the UK lying about a ‘shortage’ of people ‘qualified’ to boil rice is breathtaking, but I could imagine the stupid bastards of New Labour falling for this scam hook, line and sinker.

  116. @Jonathan Silber
    Anti-racism is the great evil of our age.

    I think Leftism is the great evil of our age, in all its various embodiments; so-called Liberalism is its current embodiment in the West.

    Anti-racism, in my view, is a tenet of Liberalism, and one of its most destructive.

    “Anti-racism” is just race nationalism for non-whites, mostly. Only white liberal dupes take it at face value. They think it means universalism and race equality for all.

  117. @Bettega
    Notice how they always relocate the migrants to places where their political enemies live, small vilages who presumably vote for conservative parties. Bavaria, which is the region of Germany which receives most Germans, is the electoral stronhold of the right-wing Christian Social Union, while the Po Valley, where this guy dreams of sending Africans votes for the separatist Lega Nord.

    This is not parady, neither it is stupid in the short term, it's actually a very smart way to destroy your enemies, settle a mercenary people among them loyal directly to you, the Romans also did that, he forgot to mention that part of the reason why the Roman state sent legionaries to settle in distant regions was because they could have an armed force loyal to Rome in different areas, migrants are no different, they are loyals to the NGOs and to the political movement that helped them move and they vote accordingly.

    Of course, merely opposing them in such terms wouldn't work, the solution, as PUA teach us, is to agree and amplify. "Yes, why not, let's open our borders and receive migrants, we could open refugee camps at universities and bohemian neighborhoods in big cities", see how quickly would the intellectual left change their opinion then.

    That would be a good way for a shrewd right-wing politician to punish the left, Orban for example should move the refugee camps in Hungary to the campus of the University of Budapest, let they rape a few female students and harass some professors to change the intellectual climate, because with that climate against him, everything is futile in the long term.

    Notice how they always relocate the migrants to places where their political enemies live, small vilages who presumably vote for conservative parties. Bavaria, which is the region of Germany which receives most Germans, is the electoral stronhold of the right-wing Christian Social Union, while the Po Valley, where this guy dreams of sending Africans votes for the separatist Lega Nord.

    The CSU is pathetic–disgusting. They have been given a golden opportunity here. They could simply tell Merkel that Bavaria refuses to take *any* of this refugee garbage. If Merkel tries to insist, threaten to leave the union. This would have the effect of either ending Merkel’s policy, bringing down the government or Freistaat Bayern leaving the federal union. All improvements on the current situation. And even better, the uber-message would be that the national and EU elites do not get to completely boss around local regions\people.

    But like we see from “conservative” parties, everywhere–nothing. No balls. No action. No willingness to stand up for the people, for their own voters. Just go along, get along timeserving. (Who’s going to kick ’em out … they’ve been in power since the 50s.)

    Talk about wasting an opportunity to do some conservative good work, to actually *conserve* something.

    (Anecdote: In Bavaria for a few days back in September. Our friends we stayed with, the guy–near retirement age now–is a big believer in the European project. Thinks the Schengen “borderless” travel an achievement. Happy to be a European. But his elder son sounded like a Bavarian nationalist.)

  118. So the Times, having failed as a newspaper is re-making itself as a satirical daily.

  119. @Steve Sailer
    Canada has lots and lots of empty land but most of its immigrants settle in the greater Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver metropolises.

    Canada’s open spaces, where I have traveled many times to fish, are not farm lands. The area above Toronto is considered Taiga, with a thin soil layer, scrub forests and long winters. However, a small population makes a living harvesting pulp timber and mining. Canada opened it’s arms to the Tamils fleeing Sri Lanka, but the Tamils wanted their own country on Canadian soil, who knew.

    • Replies: @random observer
    Give the Tamils their due, the terrorists among them just wanted to run protection rackets among the communities to raise funds for the war in the old country. They wanted their own country on Sri Lankan soil most of all.

    Didn't work out [and how it didn't- most decisive defeat of a prolonged insurgency in as many years as anyone can remember], but all's fair. I never heard of them hassling any regular people or threatening to blow things up around here.

    OTOH, they had a negative impact on our party-political culture there for a while circa 1993-2006. Liable to be back at it soon.
    , @rvg
    Actually canada can accomodate 100 million people, just build more 50 storey flats,
    , @Perspective
    Technically the area just above Toronto (York Region) is mostly flat farmland that has been paved over for new housing developments. It is a very congested area, relatively wealthy, and home to many well-to-do Chinese and Persian immigrants. I would say you need to travel a good 2 hours out of Toronto proper before you hit the Canadian shield.
  120. @Abe Humbles
    Sounds terrific! I think maybe I can squeeze myself onto one of those flotillas and be a "refugee" in the Tuscan hillside for a few years. Sounds just the thing.

    How about we run an article in the LA Times saying that we should house the Syrian migrant population in all those foreclosed McMansions in Las Vegas and Southern California? One month you're living in a refugee camp in the Balkans, the next month you're living in a 10,000 square foot compound in Santa Barbara. Sounds like the perfect way for these poor folks to "restart their lives'." Should go over like treat, too!

    Sorry to burst this otherwise excellent idea…. but there aren’t many empty foreclosed McMansions here in SB. The local housing market is ridiculously, insanely tight.

  121. Wait, if Italy, the land of my ancestors, is going to give away land, then I want 40 acres and a Ferrari. Actually, my cousins and I sold the ancestral estate about 25 years ago. Subsistence farming at best, that’s why my grandparents came over here, with a few dollars and just a patina of civilization.

  122. I wonder if there’ll be an Edward Gibbon around in the year 3000 who can make sense of this insanity.

    Anyway, there’s better news – not all Europeans are rushing headlong to race suicide.

  123. North African soldiers fighting for France also raped and pillaged Stuttgart, Germany.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    And the British and Americans did their share. But then, they got to write the History...........
  124. @Mr Curious
    Same as the Bolshevik Soldiers on German girls in Berlin in 1945.

    “Same as the Bolshevik Soldiers on German girls in Berlin in 1945.”

    Red Army soldiers raped German girls not by Russian religion or custom, but for revenge – often winked at by the Russians’ own superiors – for Germany’s invasion of Russia. Moslems, on the other hand, rape because for fourteen centuries Islam has given Moslems dispensation to rape kuffar women.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  125. @Steve Sailer
    A clever Italian who tells rich English-speakers what they want to hear?

    Isn't there a character like that in about half of all Merchant-Ivory movies?

    “A clever Italian who tells rich English-speakers what they want to hear?

    Isn’t there a character like that in about half of all Merchant-Ivory movies?”

    In Evelyn Waugh’s Brideshead Revisited there’s the worldly Clara, who is fully aware of her own sins, telling Charles Ryder what he doesn’t want to hear.

  126. @Anonymous
    "On the other side of the coin, the Economic Elite simply want to expand aggregate demand by any means necessary regardless of how it impacts the quality of life."

    Doesn't expanding consumer demand mean increased production of more stuff, which requires energy and resources to be produced, and also means there will be eventually more garbage to end up in landfills? How does this fit in with being green and helping the environment?

    Doesn’t expanding consumer demand mean increased production of more stuff, which requires energy and resources to be produced, and also means there will be eventually more garbage to end up in landfills? How does this fit in with being green and helping the environment?

    It doesn’t, which is why the environmental movement has tiptoed away from causes like flora and fauna preservation and wilderness areas, to ambiguous, incorporeal “climate change.”

    Globalism vs. white backpackers, guess who’s going to win?

  127. @Massimo Heitor

    At this point, elites and their shills are just trolling us. They know demography is destiny and that their weapons of mass migration will defeat us sooner or later. And by us I mean the dispossessed native middle classes.
     
    Why not have more kids? It will make you less depressed.

    I wish I could afford it. I already have a kid. Alas, I’m divorced and broke.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    aawww. your post made me feel so sad, late tonight. I was divorced & had lost someone to cancer; then, in my late 30's, became a mother (biological) of 3 boys (HS & college now). All I can say is that hang in there and spend your time with quality people who you know are friends, are genuine. Going thru a divorce, I had crummy dead-end jobs in the 80's...but I was nurtured by other survivors, and struggling people of all ages professionally, in NY - all in the same damn life boat so to speak. If YOU are posting here, you have a spark. Get moving!

    I think I just exposed myself to be the total earth mother! (FY Angela!) I expect all of you guys on iSteve to send me mother's day wishes next year!

  128. @BB753
    At this point, elites and their shills are just trolling us. They know demography is destiny and that their weapons of mass migration will defeat us sooner or later. And by us I mean the dispossessed native middle classes.

    Economist Man is a fool.

    In one further generation, two at most, the ‘elites’ will end up in the cold ground just the same as the rest of us. For whatever that’s worth. I think it’s funny, at any rate.

  129. @p s c
    North African soldiers fighting for France also raped and pillaged Stuttgart, Germany.

    And the British and Americans did their share. But then, they got to write the History………..

  130. @Steve Sailer
    Canada has lots and lots of empty land but most of its immigrants settle in the greater Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver metropolises.

    Word.

    But it’s long since that started applying to smaller or mid-size cities, or larger cities off the originally-beaten track, just as much- Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Hamilton, Windsor among them.

    If you want to see Ontario profonde, for example, you want small towns, and even then you never quite know. Small towns off the main highways most likely.

    In Western Canada, immigration-based diversity is still a little bit more of an urban phenomenon. If you go out of the main centres in Alberta or Saskatchewan [never been to Manitoba] or BC [for sure] diversity is provided courtesy of Indians. Our original Indians. Can’t complain. Whatever else may be true, they were still here first.

    About 5 years ago [tempus fugit, yikes] I had occasion to visit some sites associated with Canada’s nuclear industry including mines and processing sites in northern Saskatchewan. Small company plane [nice one though], airstrip that looked like it was on Mars, the whole nine yards. The sign above the company bus driver’s seat [the usual sort of message- Hello, your driver is x- or some such] was in three languages. English, French and, according to the girl driving, Cree. I’m OK with that sort of thing.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    do go on. I know nothing ("John Snow, you know nothing") about Canada, and, sooner or later, ya know, nouveau Trudeau will open the doors to 500,000+ migrants.
  131. @Buffalo Joe
    Canada's open spaces, where I have traveled many times to fish, are not farm lands. The area above Toronto is considered Taiga, with a thin soil layer, scrub forests and long winters. However, a small population makes a living harvesting pulp timber and mining. Canada opened it's arms to the Tamils fleeing Sri Lanka, but the Tamils wanted their own country on Canadian soil, who knew.

    Give the Tamils their due, the terrorists among them just wanted to run protection rackets among the communities to raise funds for the war in the old country. They wanted their own country on Sri Lankan soil most of all.

    Didn’t work out [and how it didn’t- most decisive defeat of a prolonged insurgency in as many years as anyone can remember], but all’s fair. I never heard of them hassling any regular people or threatening to blow things up around here.

    OTOH, they had a negative impact on our party-political culture there for a while circa 1993-2006. Liable to be back at it soon.

  132. @Steve Sailer
    GPS ankle bracelets?

    Soviet style internal passports and borders would not be a bad idea at this point. You could even advertise it as a way to prevent white flight.

  133. @Anonymous
    "On the other side of the coin, the Economic Elite simply want to expand aggregate demand by any means necessary regardless of how it impacts the quality of life."

    Doesn't expanding consumer demand mean increased production of more stuff, which requires energy and resources to be produced, and also means there will be eventually more garbage to end up in landfills? How does this fit in with being green and helping the environment?

    “On the other side of the coin, the Economic Elite simply want to expand aggregate demand by any means necessary regardless of how it impacts the quality of life.”

    Doesn’t expanding consumer demand mean increased production of more stuff, which requires energy and resources to be produced, and also means there will be eventually more garbage to end up in landfills? How does this fit in with being green and helping the environment?

    It doesn’t fit with it at all, because the Left has never been interested in being green. “Green” (or conservation), as Thorstein Veblen explained 100+ years ago, is a conservative thing.

    And you are right about “the production of more stuff”. Our rulers produce stuff and cause “growth” by expediting the pumping of petroleum out of the ground. Our rulers are literally a cancer feeding on petroleum. And a byproduct of the “growth” is the destruction of the race of technologists, the goose that lays the golden eggs .

    In other words, this cancer is destroying the human race’s two most precious resources.

  134. @Honorary Thief
    What's the problem? It's not like we're talking about an important country which also happens to begin with the letter I that *needs* to have its own ethnic identity...

    I don’t see a conflict here.

  135. @Jim Don Bob
    Islam also tells its followers that it is the superior way. Yet they see that everything they have, from cell phones to the makings of IEDs to AK-47s, comes from the Dar al-Harab world of the infidel.

    Psychologists call this cognitive dissonance. Their religion cannot be untrue; the rest of the world must be wrong. It is especially pronounced among the educated Muslims who have lived and studied in the West, .e.g., Mohammed Atta.

    Exactly. This hubris of Muslims, constantly, with no consideration/basic memory about their total dependency, in all of their lands, on western technology, just enlarges my atavistic and visceral hatred of anything about fracking Islam. Everyone hates the west until they need the west.

  136. @Buffalo Joe
    Canada's open spaces, where I have traveled many times to fish, are not farm lands. The area above Toronto is considered Taiga, with a thin soil layer, scrub forests and long winters. However, a small population makes a living harvesting pulp timber and mining. Canada opened it's arms to the Tamils fleeing Sri Lanka, but the Tamils wanted their own country on Canadian soil, who knew.

    Actually canada can accomodate 100 million people, just build more 50 storey flats,

  137. @BB753
    I wish I could afford it. I already have a kid. Alas, I'm divorced and broke.

    aawww. your post made me feel so sad, late tonight. I was divorced & had lost someone to cancer; then, in my late 30’s, became a mother (biological) of 3 boys (HS & college now). All I can say is that hang in there and spend your time with quality people who you know are friends, are genuine. Going thru a divorce, I had crummy dead-end jobs in the 80’s…but I was nurtured by other survivors, and struggling people of all ages professionally, in NY – all in the same damn life boat so to speak. If YOU are posting here, you have a spark. Get moving!

    I think I just exposed myself to be the total earth mother! (FY Angela!) I expect all of you guys on iSteve to send me mother’s day wishes next year!

    • Replies: @BB753
    Well, thanks Lagertha, for your kind words. I've already gotten over the worst part of divorce which is getting used to the whole ghastly situation and I'm now optimistic about my new life. But the financial part is still a burden. Thankfully I'm very busy and I expect things will sort themselves out.
  138. Israel should be forced to take these refugees, at least until their birthrate drops below replacement level (said birthrate currently making a lie of the Zionazi’s claim that Israel is full).

    It would *work*, since it wouldn’t be Italy anymore.

    FIFY.

    I love you man, but you’ve taken a very weak swipe at what is an outrageous proposal.

    Sometimes, when a proposal is mind-bogglingly stupid and hostile, it can be hard to muster a thorough response.

  139. Was there any that that Western countries like Canada and Australia could have avoided immigration reform after the US enacted it in 1965?

  140. @random observer
    Word.

    But it's long since that started applying to smaller or mid-size cities, or larger cities off the originally-beaten track, just as much- Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Hamilton, Windsor among them.

    If you want to see Ontario profonde, for example, you want small towns, and even then you never quite know. Small towns off the main highways most likely.

    In Western Canada, immigration-based diversity is still a little bit more of an urban phenomenon. If you go out of the main centres in Alberta or Saskatchewan [never been to Manitoba] or BC [for sure] diversity is provided courtesy of Indians. Our original Indians. Can't complain. Whatever else may be true, they were still here first.

    About 5 years ago [tempus fugit, yikes] I had occasion to visit some sites associated with Canada's nuclear industry including mines and processing sites in northern Saskatchewan. Small company plane [nice one though], airstrip that looked like it was on Mars, the whole nine yards. The sign above the company bus driver's seat [the usual sort of message- Hello, your driver is x- or some such] was in three languages. English, French and, according to the girl driving, Cree. I'm OK with that sort of thing.

    do go on. I know nothing (“John Snow, you know nothing”) about Canada, and, sooner or later, ya know, nouveau Trudeau will open the doors to 500,000+ migrants.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Lagertha, I do know Canada, having been born and raised in Buffalo, a gateway crossing to the land of Maple leafs and beavers. When I was a teen, my friends and I would hitch hike to the Peace Bridge, declare our intention to go to the beaches and walk across, we carried no IDs. My wife and her downtown friends crossed frequently to enjoy lunch at the many Chinese restaurants in Fort Erie. Now you need a passport or an enhanced license to cross and the wait at the bridges, of which there are four, usually takes 1 1/2 hrs. or more. But Mr. Trudeau will expediate upwards of 500K immigrants for permanent residency. Given Canadian citizenship they will soon be crossing into the State.
    , @Perspective
    The newly elected liberal party is already set to bring 25000 Syrian "refugees" before years end. In terms of diversity, it is now just beginning to spread to the edges of the larger metro areas. The area I live in, in the eastern suburbs of Toronto, is being swamped. Surging house prices are pushing much of the "multiculturalism" to further out, more affordable areas.
  141. @D. K.
    Ben tornato, ragazza!

    grazie, amore! I was mourning for a while. Now, how do we fix the migrant invasion?!

    I am a daughter/granddaughter/great granddaughter of engineers…so, what are the solutions to the Europe crisis of immigrants, who still seem to be ignoring the weather; and, spring (ice move) is just 6 months away? Whose got some ideas?

    • Replies: @D. K.
    The solution is simple: (1) use the military to protect Europe's sovereign borders, turning back the invaders, with whatever degree of force is necessary, in the name of common self-defense; (2) use the police, and other national security forces, to round up the invaders who already are present; (3) use the respective national bureaucracies to deport the invaders rounded up, back to their own countries or, in the alternative, to the countries whence they left for Europe (e.g., Turkey). Simple, alas, is not synonymous with easy: it takes the political will to do what is both necessary and proper-- and obvious! Ultimately, and not too far into the future, it just might take what it took, here, 240 years ago: "[T]ake arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing end them."
  142. @Rob McX
    I think the reasoning behind importing millions of backward misogynists is this: In global terms, you're not increasing the persecution of women by doing so, you're just redistributing it. To the one-world liberal, if Pakistanis are going to carry out honour killings, they might as well be doing it in Yorkshire as in Karachi.

    To the one-world liberal, if Pakistanis are going to carry out honour killings, they might as well be doing it in Yorkshire as in Karachi.

    good point! SJWs are globalists first and everything else, second. italics mine:

    [..]We are left, I think, with Singerian moral universalism, which is the grossest of sentimentality with all the fun taken out. Peter Singer is a strict utilitarian who believes in the felicific calculus: that to behave ethically one’s actions must be calculated to bring about the maximum of pleasure and the minimum of pain. Since everyone is to count equally, it does not matter whose [pleasure] is maximised and whose pain is minimised.
    Given the choice between pleasing his son with a small gift that he does not need, and saving the sight of a little boy with antibiotic ointment eight thousands miles away, it is clear what the decent parent ought to do. […]
    This is all preposterous, psychologically, theoretically and practically. Surely there is no one in the world who has no partiality for the people whom he knows and likes, as compared to those whom he either dislikes or are completely unknown to him. Moreover, if there were such a person, we should consider him at the best to be mentally ill, as suffering from a peculiar form of Asperger’s syndrome, and at the worst to be a monster of inhumanity. […]

    –Dalrymple, “Spoilt Rotten: The Toxic Cult of Sentimentality”

  143. @Lagertha
    aawww. your post made me feel so sad, late tonight. I was divorced & had lost someone to cancer; then, in my late 30's, became a mother (biological) of 3 boys (HS & college now). All I can say is that hang in there and spend your time with quality people who you know are friends, are genuine. Going thru a divorce, I had crummy dead-end jobs in the 80's...but I was nurtured by other survivors, and struggling people of all ages professionally, in NY - all in the same damn life boat so to speak. If YOU are posting here, you have a spark. Get moving!

    I think I just exposed myself to be the total earth mother! (FY Angela!) I expect all of you guys on iSteve to send me mother's day wishes next year!

    Well, thanks Lagertha, for your kind words. I’ve already gotten over the worst part of divorce which is getting used to the whole ghastly situation and I’m now optimistic about my new life. But the financial part is still a burden. Thankfully I’m very busy and I expect things will sort themselves out.

  144. @Jim Don Bob
    Islam also tells its followers that it is the superior way. Yet they see that everything they have, from cell phones to the makings of IEDs to AK-47s, comes from the Dar al-Harab world of the infidel.

    Psychologists call this cognitive dissonance. Their religion cannot be untrue; the rest of the world must be wrong. It is especially pronounced among the educated Muslims who have lived and studied in the West, .e.g., Mohammed Atta.

    I read Christopher Caldwell’s book, “Reflections on the Revolutions in Europe”. He has a segment there where he discusses this issue, based on what Muslim intellectuals in Europe have said. The way he presented it, there is no cognitive dissonance. It is a more European mode of thought to view something that gives better results as being intrinsically better. The Muslim world envies the power of European toys and the living standards they afford, but does not conclude that it must be more European, except in the superficial sense, to have them. Power is distinguished from wisdom, and wisdom only comes from their religion, while power must always be subordinated to wisdom. I can’t blame them for thinking that, when they see how the Euros receive them and how they abase themselves and their culture to accommodate them.

  145. @Audacious Epigone
    The ancient Romans had farsighted political leadership? The western Romans did, really?!

    They did until they didn’t.

  146. KRomanian is spot on. African and Middle Eastern migrants see Europe as one gigantic toy shop, open all hours. and all the shiny new toys free. Is it any wonder that once inside they run amok as any group of kids would? Just wait until the merchandise is exhausted..then we will see them raiding fireworks factories…step right up ladies and gentlemen the show of the century is about to begin!!

  147. The Germans have actually already implemented this plan in their own way, putting some unoccupied buildings outside München to use

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/migrant-crisis-dachau-concentration-camp-being-used-house-refugees-1520901

    On the site of former Nazi concentration camp Dachau, outbuildings that used to belong to the complex’s herb garden are now being used to house refugees.

    as an aside, I hope this post doesn’t qualify as argumentum ad hitlerum

  148. @Dumbo
    So instead of the wonderful Italian artistic and culinary traditions, we can look forward to more and more of this, thanks to Beppe Severgnini and other traitors:

    http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/politica/como-giunta-autorizza-festa-islamica-sacrificio-insorge-lega-1169188.html

    Another article in that newspaper reports that old divides between real Germans are dissolving as they unify to confront the invaders. More confirmation of the Balkanisation of Europe. Great pic of the fat hanswurst herself incidentally:

    “According to the pollster also the types of conflicts within society are changing because of massive migration flows. “The generational conflicts that characterized the previous decades have not and will not have any relevance” he explains. “The conflict between rich and poor Germans, for example, is gradually dying out. The discrepancy is not between those who have more or less money, but between the different ethnic and religious groups. Other battles that have characterized the past few decades, such as the one for the empowerment of women and protection of the environment, appear to be less popular. The central issue is immigration and the consequences it is having about German identity. ” And for many, this is scary.”

    http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/mondo/difendersi-dallimmigrazione-germania-torna-ai-valori-tradizi-1191463.html

  149. @Lagertha
    grazie, amore! I was mourning for a while. Now, how do we fix the migrant invasion?!

    I am a daughter/granddaughter/great granddaughter of engineers...so, what are the solutions to the Europe crisis of immigrants, who still seem to be ignoring the weather; and, spring (ice move) is just 6 months away? Whose got some ideas?

    The solution is simple: (1) use the military to protect Europe’s sovereign borders, turning back the invaders, with whatever degree of force is necessary, in the name of common self-defense; (2) use the police, and other national security forces, to round up the invaders who already are present; (3) use the respective national bureaucracies to deport the invaders rounded up, back to their own countries or, in the alternative, to the countries whence they left for Europe (e.g., Turkey). Simple, alas, is not synonymous with easy: it takes the political will to do what is both necessary and proper– and obvious! Ultimately, and not too far into the future, it just might take what it took, here, 240 years ago: “[T]ake arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing end them.”

  150. @Alek
    Do you know any Sikhs?

    I am a Sikh who grew up in England. My brother, along with three of my cousins, have white spouses. My kids have mostly white friends. Do they all despise whites?

    Sikhs in the UK have lower crime rates, and higher income and educational levels, then the average. Read the articles by Theodore Dalrymple on this topic.

    As general advice, do some research before posting on sites like this.

    Great. But numbers matter. Do you think that if 12 million Africans and Arabs, say, were migrating to India every year the Sikhs there would be happy?

    (Pro rata with the UK numbers.)

  151. @Lagertha
    do go on. I know nothing ("John Snow, you know nothing") about Canada, and, sooner or later, ya know, nouveau Trudeau will open the doors to 500,000+ migrants.

    Lagertha, I do know Canada, having been born and raised in Buffalo, a gateway crossing to the land of Maple leafs and beavers. When I was a teen, my friends and I would hitch hike to the Peace Bridge, declare our intention to go to the beaches and walk across, we carried no IDs. My wife and her downtown friends crossed frequently to enjoy lunch at the many Chinese restaurants in Fort Erie. Now you need a passport or an enhanced license to cross and the wait at the bridges, of which there are four, usually takes 1 1/2 hrs. or more. But Mr. Trudeau will expediate upwards of 500K immigrants for permanent residency. Given Canadian citizenship they will soon be crossing into the State.

  152. @Lagertha
    do go on. I know nothing ("John Snow, you know nothing") about Canada, and, sooner or later, ya know, nouveau Trudeau will open the doors to 500,000+ migrants.

    The newly elected liberal party is already set to bring 25000 Syrian “refugees” before years end. In terms of diversity, it is now just beginning to spread to the edges of the larger metro areas. The area I live in, in the eastern suburbs of Toronto, is being swamped. Surging house prices are pushing much of the “multiculturalism” to further out, more affordable areas.

  153. @Buffalo Joe
    Canada's open spaces, where I have traveled many times to fish, are not farm lands. The area above Toronto is considered Taiga, with a thin soil layer, scrub forests and long winters. However, a small population makes a living harvesting pulp timber and mining. Canada opened it's arms to the Tamils fleeing Sri Lanka, but the Tamils wanted their own country on Canadian soil, who knew.

    Technically the area just above Toronto (York Region) is mostly flat farmland that has been paved over for new housing developments. It is a very congested area, relatively wealthy, and home to many well-to-do Chinese and Persian immigrants. I would say you need to travel a good 2 hours out of Toronto proper before you hit the Canadian shield.

  154. @Lagertha
    Ok, this is related to what you just said, but in a twisted way. Ahhmm, some of you know I have a background in fashion and, this may be news to you, but Italy has always had a weird relationship to its farm animals because of a LACK OF LAND, and its central reputation for fashion.

    Lambs are usually slaughtered in Italy, since there is not enough land to raise cattle (of any kind) like we have back in the west in the USA. Italians have always told me that land is scarce, therefore, most farm animals do not have a long life span. Also, Italians have always been known for their shoes (shoe making) since supple leather was abundant at all times: pig, sheep, cow.

    Lambs and baby pigs/calves were also slaughtered for food: all those delicacies we all know at venerable Italian restaurants...even dishes like calves heads and innards of hog/sheep. But, most of all, the skins were used for the shoe & upholstery business. Most people may not know that the idea of "Italian leather" for sports car seats and sofas come from this long habit of using all parts of the animal (much like "early man") for a marketable purpose because of not having huge prairies to allow cattle to graze.

    Slaughtering young calves is a side-effect of dairying. Half your calves from your dairy herds will be males which, being dairy breeds, are not suited for raising for meat.

  155. @Massimo Heitor
    Looking at some actual population density data:

    Saudi Arabia: 12.3/km^2
    Algeria: 16.2/km^2
    USA: 35/km^2
    Mexico: 61/km^2
    Sardinia (the "empty space" of Italy): 69/km^2
    Ethiopia: 83/km^2
    France: 118/km^2
    China: 145/km^2
    Italy: 202/km^2
    Germany: 226/km^2
    United Kingdom: 262/km^2
    Japan: 337.1/km^2
    Israel: 387.6/km^2

    Sardinia, highlighted by the NYT author as a prime "empty space" of Italy is more densely populated than US, South America and North America as a whole, and far more densely populated than most countries of the middle east or north africa. It's only slightly less densely populated than Ethiopia.

    Italy as a whole is still one of the most densely populated countries on the planet. People really have to bend over backwards to paint it as empty.

    You understand why Saudi Arabia and Algeria have such a low population density, right?

  156. @Jim Don Bob
    Islam also tells its followers that it is the superior way. Yet they see that everything they have, from cell phones to the makings of IEDs to AK-47s, comes from the Dar al-Harab world of the infidel.

    Psychologists call this cognitive dissonance. Their religion cannot be untrue; the rest of the world must be wrong. It is especially pronounced among the educated Muslims who have lived and studied in the West, .e.g., Mohammed Atta.

    Muslims believe that all that’s good about western society (including science and technology) has Islamic origins, while all that’s bad is uniquely western. So there’s no ‘cognitive dissonance’. The failures of their countries are attributed to insufficient devotion to Islam.

  157. @Anonymous
    There is simply no way you can compare Sikhs or Indians(mostly peaceful, hardworking, respectful , wanting their children to be well-educated and gainfully employed)

    Please. Sikhs and Indians are clannish, despise Whites, and foster low social trust in society. No thanks.

    Muslims at least are universalist and foster social solidarity.

    But the bottom line is that Europe and the United States need a permanent moratorium on ALL immigration.

    “Please. Sikhs and Indians are clannish, despise Whites, and foster low social trust in society. No thanks.”

    And Muslims love Whites? They sure have an extremely weird way of showing it when they commit terrorist attacks in the U.S and European countries and murder plenty of White Europeans in the process.

    With “friends” like Muslims who need enemies.

  158. “As a (blonde) woman who spent her 20s living in France, Italy and Sweden, I can tell you that every day was something of an ordeal when I walked around town going about my business. Men harassed, accosted, chased, followed, stalked, said incredibly rude and graphic things, and generally behaved in ways so offensively sexist that I came away wondering what they were doing here in the West. If they have such contempt for us, then go away.

    100% of the time, men who acted like that were of North African or sub-Saharan origin. And it went on non-stop. French men pursue women too, but in a different and more respectful way, even when they are pushy.”

    Blonde women are considered exotic to Muslim Arab men because they are not used to seeing them back in their home countries. Countries like Egypt and Syria are not exactly blondetopias.

    Even the darkest European countries still have a higher percentage of blondes than any Arab Muslim country.

    I have seen way more blondes with Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese last names than I have blondes with Arabic last names.

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