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Here are parts from a highly informative 2016 article in the New York Times news section that I’ve alluded to many times but will quote at greater length here:
THE DAILY TOLL
A Drumbeat of Multiple Shootings, but America Isn’t Listening
Most shootings with four deaths or injuries are invisible outside their communities. And most of the lives they scar are black.
By Sharon LaFraniere, Daniela Porat and Agustin Armendariz
May 22, 2016CINCINNATI — After the slaughter of nine worshipers at a South Carolina church last June, but before the massacre of eight students and a teacher at an Oregon community college in October, there was a shooting that the police here have labeled Incident 159022597.01. It happened on a clear Friday night at an Elks Lodge, on a modest block of clapboard houses northeast of this city’s hilly downtown. Unlike the butchery that bookended it, it merited no presidential statements, no saturation television coverage.
But what took place at 6101 Prentice Street on Aug. 21 may say more about the nature of gun violence in the United States than any of those far more famous rampages. It is a snapshot of a different sort of mass violence — one that erupts with such anesthetic regularity that it is rendered almost invisible, except to the mostly black victims, survivors and attackers.
According to the police account, more than 30 people had gathered in the paneled basement bar of the lodge to mark the 39th birthday of a man named Greg Wallace when a former neighbor, Timothy Murphy, showed up, drunk. Fists flew. Mr. Murphy ducked out the door, burst back in with a handgun, and opened fire.
… By the end, 27 bullets had flown, hitting seven people. …
The Elks Lodge episode was one of at least 358 armed encounters nationwide last year — nearly one a day, on average — in which four or more people were killed or wounded, including attackers. The toll: 462 dead and 1,330 injured, sometimes for life, typically in bursts of gunfire lasting but seconds. …
Seeking deeper insight into the phenomenon, The New York Times identified and analyzed these 358 shootings with four or more casualties, drawing on two databases assembled from news reports and citizen contributors, and then verifying details with law enforcement agencies.
Only a small handful were high-profile mass shootings like those in South Carolina [Dylann Roof] and Oregon. The rest are a pencil sketch of everyday America at its most violent.
They chronicle how easily lives are shattered when a firearm is readily available — in a waistband, a glove compartment, a mailbox or garbage can that serves as a gang’s gun locker….
The typical victim was a man between 18 and 30, but more than 1 in 10 were 17 or younger. Less is known about those who pulled the triggers because nearly half of the cases remain unsolved.
Barely half of the mass shootings of 2015 had been cleared by May 2016.
But of those arrested or identified as suspects, the average age was 27.
Most of the shootings occurred in economically downtrodden neighborhoods. These shootings, by and large, are not a middle-class phenomenon.
The divide is racial as well. Among the cases examined by The Times were 39 domestic violence shootings, and they largely involved white attackers and victims. So did many of the high-profile massacres, including a wild shootout between Texas biker gangs that left nine people dead and 18 wounded.
Over all, though, nearly three-fourths of victims and suspected assailants whose race could be identified were black. Some experts suggest that helps explain why the drumbeat of dead and wounded does not inspire more outrage.
… Droves of experts study high-profile massacres by so-called lone-wolf assailants, usually driven by mental disorders, at schools, workplaces and other public spaces. Academics regularly crunch data on single homicides and assaults. But the near-daily shootings that wound or kill several victims — a relatively small subset of the shootings that kill nearly 11,000 people and wound roughly 60,000 more each year — are uncharted territory for researchers, said Richard B. Rosenfeld, a professor of criminology at the University of Missouri-St. Louis.
According to Gun Violence Archive, we got close to two mass shootings per day in 2021: 692. This year looks like we’ll be back down toward 600, like in 2020: the New Normal.
The Times compiled its list of 358 shootings with four or more casualties from largely crowd-sourced lists managed by the social media network Reddit and Gun Violence Archive, a nonprofit organization. The groups recently combined their efforts at the website gunviolencearchive.org.
Four or more casualties is a far broader measure than “mass shootings,” which are commonly defined as the killing of at least four people, not including the attacker. …
Counting assailants among casualties increased the total number of cases by fewer than three dozen, most of them domestic violence shootings that ended in suicide. Hispanics were not separately identified, because police reports do not systematically identify victims and suspects by ethnicity, only by race.
There are 358 reasons for those 358 shootings, though some remain a mystery; in about a fourth of the cases, investigators have discerned no motive.
As for the rest, some patterns stand out. The fewest occurred while another felony, such as a burglary, was underway. Domestic violence shootings were nearly as infrequent, but were among the deadliest.
About a third were provoked by arguments, typically drug- or alcohol-fueled, often over petty grievances.
A sampling:
Outside a crowded bar in Decatur, Ill., a customer found an expensive watch. When another man insisted it was his, the customer pulled out a semiautomatic handgun, shot the man in the face and wounded four people near him.
After a day of drinking, singing karaoke and watching football, four middle-aged friends in a small town north of Baton Rouge, La., got into a fight — some said over the choice of music. One shot the other three, then killed himself.
Outside an Orlando, Fla., housing project, lewd comments about a young man’s pregnant girlfriend resulted in 15 to 20 gunshots. A 10-year-old boy who peered out his window at the fracas was struck directly in one eye. One of three wounded adults later acknowledged that “a one-on-one fist fight would have settled the issue,” the police report said.
Another third of the 358 cases — and the most common in cities with more than 250,000 residents — were either gang-related or were drive-by shootings typical of gangs.
But the police and prosecutors say many of those were not directly linked to criminal activity, such as a dispute over a drug deal. More often, a minor dust-up — a boast, an insult, a decision to play basketball on another gang’s favorite court — was taken as a sign of disrespect and answered with a bullet, said Andrew V. Papachristos, a Yale University professor who studies gang behavior.
Over all, two-thirds of shootings took place outdoors, endangering innocent people. More than 100 bystanders, from toddlers to grandparents, were injured or killed.
In Cincinnati, where last year’s toll of 479 gun deaths and injuries was the highest in nine years, a growing share of shootings involves more than one victim — 1 in 8 attacks with guns in the first half of last year compared with 1 in 12 over the same span in 2010.
Police officials in some other cities have noted a similar trend, though others say they have not. What is behind the upticks, they said, is a matter of speculation.
In Rochester, multiple-victim shootings accounted for fewer than 15 percent of victims in 2006; so far this year, they make up 38 percent. Police Chief Michael Ciminelli said that he suspected that social media was playing a role by simultaneously catalyzing minor disputes into deadly standoffs and drawing more people into them.
Police chiefs are always complaining that social media leads to murders, but the news media only gets mad at social media over other things.
Larry C. Smith, interim chief of police in Durham, N.C., and a 28-year veteran of the force, said, “Are we starting to reap the video-game age? I don’t know.”
“But five, or certainly 10 years ago,” he added, “it wasn’t like this.” …
The Elks Lodge shooting was one of five last year in Cincinnati that resulted in at least four casualties. The others took place on street corners, on a front porch and at a cookout in a parking lot.
Police officials say they suspect that as many as half of the 24 victims were not the intended targets; community workers blame self-taught gunmen who are often high on drugs or are drunk. “They are not marksmen,” said Aaron Pullins, an anti-violence worker. “They don’t know how to hold the gun. They just shoot.”
Investigators have linked three of those shootings to gangs, although like many of their counterparts in other cities, they say the word gang conjures up a false image of a tight-knit, hierarchical criminal organization. Instead, they describe fluid, sometimes tiny bands of teenagers and young adults bound by illegal activity. “They are groups of friends who rob and shoot each other,” Detective Greg Gehring said. “That’s just what they do.”
… Urban gun violence tends to spread around specific blocks or intersections, like a contagious disease.
… Street violence is self-perpetuating that way: Shootings beget shootings that beget more gunmen. Professor Papachristos, the gang expert, said the more violent the neighborhood, the more teenagers and young men seek safety in numbers.
“The No. 1 reason people join gangs is for protection,” he said. “The perverse irony is they are then more at risk.”
… Nationally, reliable racial breakdowns exist only for victims and offenders in gun homicides, not assaults, but those show a huge disparity.
The gun homicide rate peaked in 1993, in tandem with a nationwide crack epidemic, and then plummeted over the next seven years. But blacks still die from gun attacks at six to 10 times the rate of whites, depending on whether the data is drawn from medical sources or the police. F.B.I. statistics show that African-Americans, who constitute about 13 percent of the population, make up about half of both gun homicide victims and their known or suspected attackers.
“Every time we look at the numbers, we are pretty discouraged, I have to tell you,” said Gary LaFree, a professor of criminology at the University of Maryland.
Some researchers say the single strongest predictor of gun homicide rates is the proportion of an area’s population that is black. But race, they say, is merely a proxy for poverty, joblessness and other socio-economic disadvantages that help breed violence.
Ehhh…. You’re researchers. You can do better than that. The black rate of homicide is much higher than that of other poor groups in America, such Latinos, American Indians, Pacific Islanders, Hmongs, Cambodians, and white hillbillies. The closest group are the blacker sort of Caribbean Latinos but they are well behind African-Americans.
You don’t have to blame it on black genes. You can point to African-American culture, which is one of the most famous and influential cultures in the world. I read an article once about the troubled youth of Guadalcanal Island in the South Pacific. They all love American rap and many aspire to acquire guns so that they can shoot each other like their African-American heroes.
It doesn’t have to be quite like that.
… Nationally, nearly half of last year’s shootings with four or more casualties ended in the same way: no arrest; often, not even a suspect. At least 160 assailants, responsible for 102 murders and 635 gun injuries, were still on the streets at year’s end.
A case was more likely to be solved if one or more victims died — the situation in about half the cases. But even some double, triple and quadruple murders continue to stump investigators.
The national clearance rate for homicides has fallen from nearly three in four in 1980 to fewer than two in three today. That is partly because public attention has driven down the share of domestic violence killings, which are routinely solved, Professor Rosenfeld said.
Much of what remains are killings involving gangs, drugs and witnesses with criminal backgrounds who are wary of talking to the police. “You are left with a larger percentage of homicides that are more difficult for police to clear,” he said.
A shift in law enforcement from solving crimes to preventing them has also contributed, as has rising distrust of the police in some cities, said Charles F. Wellford, emeritus professor of criminology at the University of Maryland. Still, he said, some law enforcement agencies are much worse at closing murder cases than others. Some of those same departments are worse at closing shootings with four or more casualties, too.
In Baltimore, the police have not solved any of 11 shootings last year. New Orleans made arrests in only one of eight cases; Chicago, two of 16.
Cincinnati was more typical, solving two of its five cases, at least in part.
Detective Charles Zopfi had real hopes of arresting the gunmen behind a drive-by shooting here last September. About 20 people had gathered on a warm Monday night for a cookout in a parking lot beside an apartment building. “There were kids and older people, not your usual crowd of 16- to 23-year-old guys,” the detective said.
As a car sped down the street, someone fired at least 10 bullets out a window. Detective Zopfi said he knew from experience how people respond in such situations: They look in the direction of the gunfire, and only then dive for cover.
But eight months later, he said, he has been unable even to nail down whether the vehicle was black or green. He heard that of the five victims, a 30-year-old African-American man was left paralyzed from the waist down. But that man refused to take his phone calls, then changed his telephone number.
A wounded 3-year-old named Jabarri seemed the best hope of persuading witnesses to come forward, the detective said. Sometimes, the moral outrage over a child victim overwhelms the code of silence. And Jabarri, he said, was “the cutest little boy” who had smiled beguilingly at him from a hospital gurney even after being shot in the leg.
At the detective’s request, Jabarri’s mother agreed to meet with a reporter. But when the reporter showed up at her home, she backed out, pleading a haircut appointment. “The code of silence is strictly enforced,” the detective said.
Mr. Abdullah, the anti-violence worker, talks to some of the victims and witnesses who will not give information to the police. “They are scared,” he said. “We have had cases where people found out who talked and that person wound up dead. ‘So if the police cannot protect me, why would I jeopardize my life and my family?’ ”
“It’s so much bigger than the idea of ‘no snitching,’ ” he said.
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……and this is from a very powerful leftist criminal organization itself ,so all you tiny ducks out there suck it.
You trying to get them to delete it 🙂
Off topic: Soccer star Christian Pulisic complains that USA fans are outnumbered by MOROCCO fans in Cincinnati! No mention of immigration, for some reason. I initially felt sympathy for his position, but then I saw highlights of the game, and the USA jersey numbers were in the rainbow flag colors, as was the captain’s arm band. So, meh.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/sports/christian-pulisic-soccer-american-disinterest
Quite the chutzpah from those arbiters of culture who suppress the facts surrounding these trends.
Why not?
Genes produce culture. My dog doesn’t have the ability to appreciate Rembrandt or read Chaucer because of genes. Instead, he is part of a dog culture that emphasizes urinating to mark territory, growling, snarling, barking and fur-raising. His culture doesn’t use toilets either.
If a given population doesn’t have the congenital abilities to produce the Notre Dame, the Sistine Chapel, steel or powered flight, it won’t. It will produce savages.
How did the NYT manage to get so much information in between the feelz into their paper back then? Different editors?
That 13% includes infants, grannies, and early elementary school age boys and girls. Surely it’s closer to 5%.
Not really OT:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10883495/Teen-mowed-mom-baby-sentenced-LAs-woke-DA-five-months-probation-camp.html
The video is appalling, but more so the aside notes about Gascon’s record, including the “Hannah” Stubbs case.
Why is not Gascon an iSteve content-generator? The LA Times has done solid coverage about Soros’ backing of woke DAs.
All revolutionaries (France, Russia, Spanish republicans, Castro and Zelensky) have emptied jails. This is the 2020 American oligarch version.
Did our Deep State allow a color revolution for nothing?
If Russia finishes up in Ukraine, and Poland takes some of Western Ukraine, Asia buys its oil and gas from Russia with rubles, and China takes Taiwan, then will George Floyd and Corona virus have been worth it? It will have been an epic civilizational failure for nothing. Asia will not trust us again anytime soon. They know we allowed 9/11, they know Yellowcake Uranium in Iraq was bogus, they know Assad gassing Syrians was bogus, they know the 7/7 train attacks were bogus (the terrorist-patsies missed their train, but the M16 bombs that were pre-planted went off anyway), they know Ukarian had been shelling East Ukranian Russian-speaking states before Russia finally decided to defend their fellow ethnic Russians. Nobody really believes the empire and its real WEF/Bilderberg controllers anymore.
Now we are left with stirred-up racial and resentful minorities, virtue-signalling-useless-harpies, a devalued dollar, impending “phood” shortages, high energy prices, BLM/antifa, and demoralized normals.
But we have Brandon and Kamel-face on our side, so that’s a relief.
“informative 2016 article in the New York Times”
Nothing has changed. Make the change.
That’s in Madisonville, a slummy black neighborhood at the foot of Indian Hill. The City of The Village of Indian Hill (I could explain that bizarre notation) is easily the richest suburb of Cincinnati and abuts the city. Google maps puts the site of that shooting at a five-minute drive from the house I lived in there when I was in high school, in the least rich but still plenty well-off part of Indian Hill–2.1 miles. Needless to say, there aren’t a whole lot of black people in Indian Hill, and while I’m sure there are plenty of guns floating around there, people don’t shoot each other at all really.
(Bold mine) Right: Cincinnati has never been big on Crips-like street gangs–not really a thing there. The airport is in Kentucky, and it’s more of a sleepy northern-Southern river city than one might think if one is getting confused by all those Ohio cities that begin with the letter C, a slightly bigger Louisville basically.
The detective’s surname is telling. Cincinnati has been extremely German for a very long time. The slummiest black slum there is called Over-the-Rhine, full of beautiful crumbling Italianate housing stock built in the 19th c. by the Germans who were eventually chased out of there and alluded to their native riverine habitat in naming it.
Big chunks of Cincinnati are very “white hillbilly,” and yeah, they don’t shoot each other all that much. Mostly these days they overdose on opioids: the Cincinnati-Dayton area is ground zero for that very sad epidemic.
All that said, I very much look forward to a four-day visit to Cincinnati to see my mother and sister, starting tomorrow.
It’s gone up since 2016. It was like 56% in 2020. When the 2021 numbers become available, I expect it to be at least 60%.
Also note that black women commit a significant number, like a thousand a year. Way less that black men, but still big, considering that the 87% non-black population commits only 5,000 a year.
America listened, African America didn’t like the answer.
Don’t take my rights away because mentally retarded criminals can’t control themselves.
I have often commented that from my time living in a black neighborhood, nearly all of the violence is from petty slights as opposed to some complicated gangland dispute many journalists and goodwhites seem to default to. One example took place a block from my house when a handful of guys were playing dice on the sidewalk, one boasted of his winning streak, and was promptly shot dead by one of the less fortunate. We also had an 8 year old killed because he was sitting on a porch with his ‘mother’ and friends at 1 AM one evening when someone sprayed down the house to avenge the unkind comments this woman had made about the gunman’s girlfriend.
We had a number of older black residents who had lived there 30+ years and they often would chat with gentrifiers like myself about what went on. One thing was that they viewed most of these shootings as lowlifes taking out other lowlifes so not worth really getting worked up about from a law enforcement standpoint. The other was that the DCPD had a reputation for massive corruption with many officers on the take from drug dealers and in the past if a citizen called in a violent or drug crime, it was nearly a sure thing that the perpetrators would find out who did it. So while they were pretty open about how they didn’t like that whites were moving in, most also would admit that it made the neighborhood better because they would actually call the cops and the cops would show up most of the time (and that we all improved the houses we bought).
But at the end of the day, one of the big problems in the neighborhood is that they would tolerate levels of disorder and dysfunction that I feel like no one else would. This sort of passivity about their social conditions paved the way for how bad it is now.
If the sacred 13% are responsible for over half the murders, and many of the murders remain unsolved due to “snitches get stiches” concerns, then it would make sense that well over half the murders are committed by the sacred 13%. And since women commit at a lower rate, and little kids and old men in wheel chairs commit hardly any, it would seem that the young men are punching above their weight.
“Academics regularly crunch data on single homicides and assaults. ”
Bad for their career now.
“Big chunks of Cincinnati are very “white hillbilly,””
Not just Cincinnati. An odd demographic pattern in the midwest is the “left behind” whites in mostly black central cities are descendants from migrants from Kentucky and West Virginia, and still have the Appalachian accent after multiple generations. Whites who settled the midwest from northeastern states (most commonly NY and PA) or directly from Europe moved to the suburbs.
The giant migration from Appalachia to the cities of the Midwest was mostly from 1900-1970. After that there was some light chain migration, but sunbelt cities became far more attractive.
“ F.B.I. statistics show that African-Americans, who constitute about 13 percent of the population, make up about half of both gun homicide victims and their known or suspected attackers.”
I hope to see someday a careful attempt to adjust murder rates for unknown offenders. This 2015 stat was near the peak low of crime rates, and black murder rates are now much higher. Blacks may be 65% of 2021 homicide offenders.
Well that was back in 2016. Things are completely different now. The death of George Floyd caused the black community to reassess its priorities and look inward to understand how it is that many black men are unable to make useful lives for themselves and instead turn to drugs and crime like George Floyd did. The result was a initiative where blacks sought to revitalize businesses in their community, especially retail businesses that provide not only employment but also provide essential goods and services to black communities. Young people were urged to attend school every day and further their education rather than hanging out on street corners and committing crimes. The police and prosecutors were urged to get tough on crime so that young people would understand the severe consequences associated with breaking the law – a young black man might start out by stealing a pack of blunts or passing a fake \$20 but end up dying in an armed struggle with the police, so better not to start out on a life of crime. In an alternative universe.
Jack….just stop…..my sides hurt and milk came out my nose!
Don’t forget migrants from Missouri. They don’t necessarily have their grandparents’ accent but they have largely kept the grammar. “We was,” etc.
See how powerful systemic racism is? It even infiltrated the New York Times. For the right price I can provide the right incantation, er training, to expel this demon. Of course, it won’t come cheap.
https://www.propublica.org/article/shooting-baltimore-court-wire-trial-diary
This is a good story by a reporter about serving on a Baltimore jury and he suggests the problem is juries who won’t convict even when presented with overwhelming evidence.
Hypothesis: Unhappy, disturbed, non-blacks go on killing sprees because that is the conflict resolution used by blacks and portrayed in the movies. The popular culture of gun violence is contagious. The difference is non-blacks know they get just one crack at it before they would go to jail so they plan ahead and make the most of the opportunity.
Question: Concerning perps who shoot up schools, of those who do so with the intent of mass murder, and not just to retaliate for some social slight, what percentage are black? When was the last time a black kid took out a classroom of kids?
…………Curle=Dogbert
OFF TOPIC:
Washington Post claims male and female brains are different!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/06/03/why-so-many-mass-shooters-young-angry-men/
I can’t even.
p.s. just because the shooter had a “male” body doesn’t mean he had a “male” brain?
I bolded the word their to point out that at the NYT, even the most refreshing honesty can only go so far. That is, it’s ok to talk about black killers of other blacks, but suggesting that black killers are a plague on people of other races too: that’s a bridge too far. So 1½ cheers for the NYT for publishing this.
The greatest threat to Western Civ is white supremacy. Ban guns.
P.S.: Rolling blackouts in South Africa, since the expulsion, property seizure, and torture/murder of white usurpers, has also sparked reassessment of priorities.
Ya wanna see how powerful systemic sodomy is?
Nowhere is safe.
Since we don’t have very good records or ideas about the past far enough into the past and since the kind of people who wrote history tended not to care or understand the poor, it’s like living in some kind of epoch of the Vikings adopting Christianity or hunter-gatherers being faced with agriculturalists in terms of the social dynamic that is gangsta rap elevating a violent honor culture paradigm because we’re used to these cultural shifts being accompanied with an invasion and overthrow of the established order by said honor culture rather than it’s influence emerging from a poor marginalised area via the power of modern technology and the music industry media.
It validates the impulses and sensibilities of guys with cluster B personality disorders and helps to make society one that fits them more. Since it’s invisible and tied to status and media representation it isn’t taken seriously because most people don’t respond to this and the vast majority of people in media are not violent nor do they think like somebody from an honor culture so they assume it can’t have any more an effect than violent films or video games. But rappers are real people not imaginary characters, there is a cultural and values impulse to modern rap that doesn’t exist in movies or games.
So the gist of the Times article is that that the racist honkies having stopped shooting their wives is making Shitavious look bad.
https://www.takimag.com/article/theyre-replacing-you-black-america-2/
From the article:
For the past quarter-century, black academics, intellectuals and activists have been screaming from the rooftops about the devastating impact of mass third world immigration on African Americans.
Civil rights hero Barbara Jordan, appointed by President Bill Clinton to head the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform, thunderously concluded that there is “no national interest in continuing to import lesser-skilled and unskilled workers to compete in the most vulnerable parts of our labor force. Many American workers do not have adequate job prospects. We should make their task easier to find employment, not harder.”
Former Vanderbilt University professor Carol Swain and U.S. Civil Rights Commissioner Peter Kirsanow have also produced studies showing that African Americans are bearing the brunt of our immigration policies.
Black workers didn’t need to wait for the reports. In 2006, black day laborer John Henry Ford was interviewed by The Washington Post while he was standing on a street corner in Washington, D.C., looking for work amid a crowd of Hispanics. His verdict: “They came over here, in a sense, to replace us.”
Cincinnati and southern Ohio (Kings Mill and Lebanon, with which I am familiar) are great quality-of-life places, and were even more so twenty-five years ago.
One should stress that “appeal” of rap crap is to the lowest of the low among certain ethnicities’ or cultures’ youth. Others don’t even know what it’s all about.
We could go on & on, but… blacks are an infantile, hardy, primitive & violent race. There is not much to add. Distinguished black individuals like Sowell don’t matter.
Perhaps 15 or so years ago, I visited an African American forum. I’ve seen it ca. 70-90 times. Then, it had a rather simple structure, not divided into sports, health, culture, economics, politics, ….. There you could get a glimpse into a collective black American psyche.
Generally, it was extremely infantile. Perhaps 70% of it was about sex, and the vast majority of questions was from black males: would white, Philippino, Asian, Mexican, Indian, Dominican, eastern European, Latino…women want to date & screw them. 30 or 40 years old men writing as adolescents. Black women were constantly accused as “Jezebels”.
Around 20% was about their music and entertainment (A Football, basketball), but mostly about music. Rock music was denounced as “white”; jazz too. There was blathering about hip hop and rap as something virtually divine.
The rest, 10%, was about some obscure topics, either local news, gossip or black Muslim fantasies (white man is the devil) & similar topics.
That’s what they are.
Yes, 35 years ago, your slavemasters hit us with gangsta rap to make us kill each other, and hit you with that grunge crap to make you kill yourselves. They have been highly successful on each front. They really weren’t overly covert about it, and neither have been their covert satellite organizations.
As I have opined a few times, there are two prominent columnists on this site who’s official function is to find the one b on w homicide daily, as well as five or six more, who consider it a side-hobby; whereas Steve probably covers the subject of the 107 daily white homicides in this country, once every 3 months.
My sense is that big city police and prosecutors are loath to enforce the gun laws their political leaders pass. Police forces will boast of how many hundreds of illegal guns they have seized but not how many of the criminals carrying them have been prosecuted and sent to prison.
The reason is the result of experiments like Richmond, Virginia’s Project Exile which was heavily promoted and publicized and promised possession of an illegal weapon in that city would earn you a 5 year sentence in Federal prison no ifs ands or buts. The results were, in a city with a black population of around 100,000, hundreds of young black men would be given 5 year prison terms EVERY year the program continued. The murder rate did drop dramatically too but the number of young black men on the streets dropped faster. It had a political effect too. After a string of black mayors, Tim Kaine became mayor in 1998 just after Project Exile got rolling in 1997. Kaine was a typical Democrat liberal but he was also a technocrat given to explaining concepts like the ”continuum of need” to the city’s black politicians and with fewer black male hoodrats on the streets of Richmond the ”continuum of need” that funded programs for this population was declining too so spending could be cut and positions eliminated.
It is also interesting that enforcement of gun laws in cases of domestic violence is much more rigorous. Punch your wife and the police will seize your firearms and block your ability to legally buy a new one even if you have no felony conviction but many domestic violence incidents are often dropped as no one is willing to testify.
This is a classic example of this.
Around half of the Waco bikers arrested were latinx, with smattering of blax among, so it was hardly a white incident.
Indian Hill, huh?
Excellent Cincinnati backgrounder slumber_j.
A roll call in one of my Jesuit HS classes sounded like–with a few exceptions, like myself–the roster for one of Guderian’s panzer divisions.
Spot on.
Cincinnati has very distinct neighborhoods which map-wise can appear next to each other but are actually quite separate due to elevation.
I have a sociological theory that if you are saddled with “vibrant” diversity, you are better off living in a “river city” with hills and tributary valleys, than you are on flat lake/ocean plain city or on the prairie where there are no natural barriers.
I started evolving an understanding of this in HS–aware we were in better shape than Cleveland, Chicago, Detroit. But my college girlfriend was from Cleveland and I’d hitchhike up there regularly and got some (limited) understanding of the geography. Later, I lived briefly in Chicago. Those experiences cemented my theory.
In Cleveland, the “vibrancy” was able to sprawl quickly east right across the lake plain destroying everything in its path, until more or less something of stand, slowing decline could be had on the heights to the east. And the vibrancy is pretty much stopped by I-271 and the woodsy terrain–where my gf lived–beyond.
Steve’s written a good bit about the collapse of his wife’s Austin neighborhood and how Oak Park was able to stop the vibrancy encroachment only by “integrating” under a set of pretty much illegal rules that are only available to the “right sort of people”.
In short: Borders are good for you. And natural barriers help you enforce borders.
So a lot of these shootings would qualify as “misdemeanor homicide” aka “scumbag killing scumbag”?
“These people are scum, air should be illegal if they breathe it”, as a cop told P.J. O’Rourke.
Cincinnatta, Oha
OT: Iga Światek, World No.1 from Poland, just demolished
Coco Gauff 6-1 6-3 in only 68 minutes at the French Open final.
Coco is a black American player. Iga is not American so apparently
she doesn’t know that it’s racist to humiliate blacks in sports.
None of that is possible, because of systemic racism against blacks.
Just as Jews can’t get ahead in this country, because of persistent anti-Semitism. In an alternate universe.
Yes, but why does Heinz have an Armenian-sounding surname?
I copied this excerpt from what I recently read in my book on on life in the slammer. Didn’t inner-city guys learn, from their previous time in the slammer, the code of conduct?
Don’t know if anyone else saw this video, but it strikes me as a classic example of the stupidity of most black murders. Volume up! (And wouldn’t you know it, NASA isn’t saying anything) https://twitter.com/ShaneogdenLGBFB/status/1531761254049538048?fbclid=IwAR2gdJ2D-lVSRTr699swawHponglj_lkk0gJQg2YdCG9Y1o0lP_yl29GnEQ
I wonder if the same could be said about Pittsburgh who’s also in a hilly area as well?
Btw, I spotted this article posted last April who moght be worth to check.
https://vdare.com/articles/23-black-on-white-homicides-counting-japanese-white-hispanics-chaldeans-march-2022-another-month-in-the-death-of-white-america
Follow the science-
Instead of disarming the entire population just start with 13% and enforce it vigorously. Stabbings will skyrocket but we’ll still be better off
I’ve made this compromise argument to some of those I know in favor of eliminating guns. It throws them for loop. I enjoy the stunned look.
And yet the ADL, the SPLC, and even many people who regularly write for the New York Times, consider just posting “13/50” on social media to be “racist hate speech” motivated by “baseless conspiracy theories”.
This has nothing to do with rap. They moved into an area with a very different tribe and they had to learn to adapt.
Yes, but that means racial discrimination against blacks and living in hellish anarchy is better than legal discrimination against blacks.
This is was “equality” has come to mean.
Now, now, let’s not go all Stormfront on our good friend Jack. Everyone knows we’re only a few Pepe memes away from The Man in the High Castle.
Well, presumably the black kids aren’t hanging out at school much anyway. And when they do, they live in a separate universe.
I dunno about your hypothesis – running amuk is pretty universal among low status/abused men across cultures…if you were constantly at the bottom of the pecking order, hurting it as much as possible makes sense, at least emotionally. What hurts more than slaughtering babies? No one needs an example to follow for this stuff.
As an Asian person, you seem to be surprisingly unaware of systemic racism. Maybe it’s related to your age. It’s been gone for most of your lifetime but at one time it was quite real. The difference between Jews and Asian OTOH and blacks OTOH is that the former OVERCAME systemic racism and did not allow themselves to be defeated by it. If you couldn’t get a job with a big corporation, you opened your own small business (and if you were lucky made it a big business).
Maybe it’s because you identify so strongly with white Christians but you are an unusual Asian. Most Asians I know get along very well with Jews because their immigrant arc in America was really quite similar and they can identify with each other’s experiences as minorities who thrived in America despite the occasional racism that they faced. Sure this was much better than having your country occupied by Germans or Japanese but it wasn’t perfect either.
>Most Asians I know get along very well with Jews because their immigrant arc in America was really quite similar and they can identify with each other’s experiences as minorities who thrived in America despite the occasional racism that they faced.
Could it be the strain of vulgar materialism prominent in both populations as well?
I bolded the word their to point out that at the NYT, even the most refreshing honesty can only go so far. That is, it’s ok to talk about black killers of other blacks, but suggesting that black killers are a plague on people of other races too: that’s a bridge too far. So 1½ cheers for the NYT for publishing this.
A step in the right direction but entirely out of necessity.
NY is getting out of control and the Times is realizing that they might have to take a few inches in the direction of reality. The public transportation narrative will be jeopardized if the liberal metropolis has declining numbers in ridership due to by crime committed by man or men in man like clothing.
Heh.
But this is a big admission against interest, that’s akin to the Russians admitting their Black Sea flagship sunk whatever the cause, so it’s safe to assume the real statistics are at least this bad.
Oh gee, what insight. Certain groups have much higher levels of criminality. This was known 500 years ago. Just keep repeating the obvious. Has any HBD pundit ever said anything original?
Or do they just collect tips for throwing White people under the bus?
Just waging my finger at tiny/e.o……..a guys gotta be able to have a little fun.
I have a sociological theory that if you are saddled with “vibrant” diversity, you are better off living in a “river city” with hills and tributary valleys, than you are on flat lake/ocean plain city or on the prairie where there are no natural barriers.
I don’t see how it would matter if there are roads everywhere.
Steve’s written a good bit about the collapse of his wife’s Austin neighborhood and how Oak Park was able to stop the vibrancy encroachment only by “integrating” under a set of pretty much illegal rules that are only available to the “right sort of people”.
This doesn’t work.
You can’t have a dangerous neighborhood like Austin blocks away or even 15 minutes away.
Black people don’t stay in their borders as if these are countries. Have you ever gassed up in one of these areas?
And then there is the whole school business.
Yes, Cincinnati a surprisingly pleasant and pretty place in many ways.
Interesting point about gangsta rap and grunge. Thanks.
Except that in Cincinnati they sort of do, which is AnotherDad’s point. I’d say his theory has some merit.
It reminds me somewhat of Los Angeles in that regard, where people without a lot of resources do a lot of not leaving their neighborhoods. For maybe a year in about 1990, I was a substitute teacher in the LA Unified School District and saw a lot of this first hand. I remember one gig at a middle school in Boyle Heights, a downmarket Mexican neighborhood near Downtown LA. Some kids asked me where I lived, and I said Hollywood, which was then a dump (which is why I could afford it) and not a long drive from there on the 101 Freeway. They were stunned and asked if I knew Arnold Schwarzenegger.
People do not easily/routinely walk up big/steep hills to other neighborhoods.
Drive around Cincinnati (or Pittsburgh) and you’ll gleam some understanding. You can have a neighborhood at the bottom of a hill with a radically different character than the one at the top of the hill. The hill actually separates the neighborhoods.
In contrast drive through–windows up and well armed–the East side of Cleveland and you’ll understand how easy it was for black dysfunction to sprawl block by block across the Lake Erie plain.
I’m not claiming I’m doling out deep insight–I figured this out in my teens–but it is a real effect.
Austin as in Austin Chicago? It’s one of the most dangerous districts.
Correct. Search iSteve and you’ll get some hits on the transition. It was his wife’s girlhood neighborhood and “integration” brought “challenges” and then exit and political transformation in her family. (At least that’s my recollection, it’s Steve’s family not mine.)
And … Oak Park was able to stop being overwhelmed because it had the “right sort of people” who were given unwritten permission to flout “Civil Rights” legalisms like the Fair Housing Act and manage a token integration. (Which indeed has gotten much greater over time.)
In other words, the “good” whites in Oak Park were given the sort of freedom of association to preserve their neighborhood as theirs that minoritarians rail against as “racism!” or “white supremacy” when the working class goyim would like to preserve their communities.
Marine Corps sparks outrage with rainbow bullets to mark Pride month
https://nypost.com/2022/06/01/marine-corps-sparks-outrage-with-pride-month-rainbow-bullets/
Coco Guaff made \$1.14 million dollars today. Please, humiliate me!
Prize Money Breakdown for the French Open 2022
The table below gives you a full breakdown of prize money at this year’s French Open tournament: the men’s and women’s singles (equal prize money), the men’s and women’s doubles and the mixed doubles.
Men’s and Women’s Singles French Open
2022 USD
Winner \$2,290,354
Runner-up \$1,145,177
Communist Kickball
There were a mix of biker gangs there. The main one in TX, Banditos, has some Hispanic members.
Cops killed several, some were injured when bikers started shooting back or were just in the way.
Local DA was eventually voted out.
Zero convictions and I don’t think any trials. Bikers were innocent of all crimes alleged, despite the lurid headlines.
It was a planned massacre by cops that went “south.”
People who murder random children are very rare, if by children you mean 12 and under. There was however the Atlanta negro, Wayne Williams who had some 28 murders attributed to him including several 10 and under. As the murders attracted attention Williams had to go up the age scale as black kids under 10 disappeared from the streets so he attacked adolescents who he could still hunt.
Since this essay was posted there were two school graduation “party shootings” since then.
It probably didn’t involve Whites since the news feeds are all about “shots ringing out” which is the new Tell for non White violence. White shootings at group events are not so musical.
One shooting, (no deaths) was from about a group of 100 in a tiny village outside of El Paso on the border. So this was Hispanic gangs, likely. No deaths.
The other in Virginia outside of Richmond. Probably blacks. The one dead had a “blackish” name.
White killers are all vaguely described as neo nazis. But non Whites seem to die in large outdoor settings of some kind of celebration or other where the ringing of bullets accompanies the rap music.
In this shooting they claimed 50 cartridge casings of different calibers with at least four groups involved. This D.I.E. exuberance was in celebration of future scholars who managed to graduate. Quite a community celebration for that rare event followed. Advertised on social media of course. Some local entrepreneur was undoubtedly selling beer for \$3 a cup.
In practice, blacks seem to be carrying firearms at these events far more than others.
OT: Well here we go again. Will the headline be “America ban guns” or “Ban white males?” Or both?
On the subject of Texas and whether something is a white incident, the Uvalde mass shooting appears to involve a Hispanic perpetrator, Hispanic police standing around and being police not doing anything, Hispanic parents who were outraged in real-time and Hispanic victims?
Sailer’s Law indicates that such a thing is typically a white-on-white, or maybe with the odd “incel” Asian perpetrator?
Does Uvalde mean that Hispanics have assimilated into thoroughly white patterns of behavior, including the characteristic style of disfunction? Or is there something particularly Mexican/Chicano about disfunctional no-can-do policing? I know there are white cops who are never there when you need them, but isn’t that modality of law enforcement also a Meso-American thing?
50 casings of different calibers indicating four separate sources of ammunition!
Oh my, think of the logistics problem supplying that army!
The troubling feature is the RATE.
You said yourself that there are 2x Whites killed by Blacks as vice versa.
Being 1/7 of the population, this makes interracial killing 14 times more likely from the Black side.
No amount of culture change is ever going to get blacks to behave, say, like the Japanese in Japan. Nevertheless, culture matters. The genes of black people didn’t change the day after George Floyd died of an overdose. However, the culture of black people went from bad to worse. Hence, the huge increase in murders.
Sailer’s Law of Mass Shootings compares blacks to nonblacks.
The last guy to call for the Black Community to look in the mirror, get its act together, and change was . . . Bill Cosby. When the Cos is your best role model for responsible behavior you’ve got issues.
That’s good. I was pretty much out of the country for the 90s so missed them. Dunno how I would feel if that weren’t the case.
How circular!
Gee, I don’t know. Koreans are highly represented in the army officer corps (during my youth, they were 70-80% of “Asians” at West Point). Indians, perhaps even southern coastal merchant Chinese, might be Asian Jews, but Koreans aren’t. They are the (Ulster) Irishmen of the Orient. Meanwhile Jews probably have the lowest representation in the military among white ethnics (2% of the genpop, 0.2% of the military).
Filipinos and Koreans are two of the more assimilated of Asian groups in the US. Both are overwhelmingly Christian. Both also have high rates of military service – the Koreans in the army, the Filipinos in the navy. Neither are very Jew-like.
Now it’s Fellow Immigrants! What happened to Fellow Whites?
What were the Jewish equivalents of systemic racism in America such as the Chinese Exclusion Act or the Asiatic Exclusion League (formerly Japanese and Korean Exclusion League) or the Manzanar Internment Camp?
I hear blackouts are coming to the US too this summer! Why should the Afrikaner and Bantu have all the fun?
A lot of Korean I know took over traditional Jewish and Italian immigrant business such as dry cleaners, liquor stores, grocery stores, etc. There are a lot more Korean dry cleaners than Korean West Point cadets. I think you have an inflated view of Koreans as this fierce martial race when mostly they run wig stores in the ghetto.
The Aussie anchoress doesn’t seem to understand that no one in the subway car wanted to be a “racist” – not even the victim of the assault (hence the very quiet pleading for help).
I don’t want to play “who suffered more” games, but every immigrant group in American has suffered discrimination.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Order_No._11_(1862)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/henryford-antisemitism/
“Meanwhile Jews probably have the lowest representation in the military among white ethnics (2% of the genpop, 0.2% of the military).”
Hey, come on, doesn’t “warmongerers” count as a branch of the service?
BTW, now you are playing “Fellow Asian” games. The Chinese Exclusion Act had nothing to do with Korea. In fact it created an opening for Koreans to come to Hawaii as farm laborers since Chinese were now excluded. I assume that when the US interned the Japanese during WWII, most Koreans were glad.
This whole “AAPI” thing is just something drummed up by the Democrat Party to give Asian lightweights some heft in the Coalition of the Fringes by lumping them all together in the same basket when in truth back home these groups often hated each other and certainly didn’t think of these other nationalities as “Fellow Asian People”. If you tried to explain the concept of “AAPI” to a Korean back home and how he now belonged to the same group as Indians and Samoans you would get nothing but strange looks or maybe even vigorous protest from “the cleanest race”.
This is about the 70th time I have had to write this, on a genius-infested board, no less, boy ratios do not work like that.
More potential offenders = less potential victims, and vice versa.
Even in the ghetto, this was 5th grade math.
More obfuscation.
Both statements – about dry cleaners and West Point cadets – could be true. Why? Generations. Only citizens can attend West Point (aside from a few foreign cadets).
First generation Jews and Koreans might have run dry cleaners, but the next generation of each group?
Who is the Jewish equivalent of Jonny Kim?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Kim
You know who the best known Jewish SEAL is these days?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Greitens
About “fierce martial race,” you said it, not I. But since you brought it up, what’s the American diaspora Jewish equivalent to this?
When my mother graduated in the early 1950s’ from a Philadelphia Catholic Girls Highschool the Nuns warned them not apply to certain companies. because they didn’t hire from Catholic schools.
The great swell of immigration from the 1880s’ to the early twenties brought in a lot of immigrants from Eastern Europe &; Italy. Mostly Catholic but the bulk of todays Jews. On the whole they weren’t popular.
Religious discrimination was much bigger then you would think these days.
The Korean Army units (ROK) in the Vietnam War were probably the meanest Grunts around.
The Aussie anchoress doesn’t seem to understand that no one in the subway car wanted to be a “racist” – not even the victim of the assault (hence the very quiet pleading for help).
It’s the same self-selection problem that exists in all the liberal cities.
The type of man that would help has already moved to Montana.
More potential offenders = less potential victims, and vice versa.
Even in the ghetto, this was 5th grade math.
Yea nice try troof.
Let’s go ahead and pair down the ratio to one potential offender and one potential victim.
So Black male / White female couples should have the same domestic homicide rate as White male / Black female couples?
Dopey liberals will fall for your games so why bother posting at Unz? Mulattoes like yourself can make a lot of money convincing liberals that their lying eyes deceive them. They will also fawn over the fact that you are Blackish and helping them cope with reality.
The stunned look is because they’re trying to figure out whom to report you to.
Volunteering other people’s sons for one’s own political and economic ends is the most “men without chests” thing ever.
You must get paid by the hour, because you keep running the same play and seem to expect a different result.
First of all, did I not point out earlier that this – playing your interlocutor’s point back at him when you start to lose arguments – is one of the most annoying traits of yours?
https://www.unz.com/isteve/wp-racist-violence-against-asians-is-out-of-control/#comment-5350086
You don’t like to play “who suffered more game”? I believe I already called you out on it in this thread: https://www.unz.com/isteve/is-systemic-racism-particularly-non-systemic/#comment-5141080
After trying to push more of the same Jews as the Victim-est People Ever angle and being pointed out by me that America has been very good to the Jews, even you had to admit, perhaps in a moment of weakness, this: https://www.unz.com/isteve/is-systemic-racism-particularly-non-systemic/#comment-5141240
To which I retorted thusly:
You never responded. And now I see you are back to more “Fellow” games, i.e. Hey, everyone’s suffered here, including the Jews!
From “Good Times, Bad Times” by Led Zeppelin:
Genes certainly play a part in the extraordinary propensity of blacks to commit murder. But, I believe that culture is the dominant factor here. A Canadian researcher (whose name escapes me, but I believe he was from Nova Scotia) came up with the simple and best answer that I have seen as to why murder rates vary so much in different cultures. Essentially, he said that the higher the social taboo against murder tended to be in a culture, the lower the murder rate tended to be in that culture.
So, in cultures with very low murder rates, committing murder is the absolute antithesis of being a man. Indeed, being a murderer in these cultures, even in the most extenuating circumstances, makes you an animal, and, therefore, less of a man. However, in high murder rate cultures, the taboo is generally not nearly as strong. And in some cases, such as honor killings, committing murder in these cultures may even be required for someone to be seen as a man. In fact, many of the ridiculous murders that take place in America’s black ghettos are, if you examine them closely, nothing more than honor related types of killings done by black men whose value system and culture is so screwed up that they think that killing a certain someone makes them more of a man.
One reason that I was so impressed with this Canadian’s simple answer to the question of why murder rates vary was because it related so closely to what I had overheard in a hospital emergency room many years earlier. Specifically, a black man was being treated for a head wound caused by a blunt instrument, maybe a pipe or hammer. The cops were questioning him and he said something like, “What am I supposed to do? Let some n*ggers come on to my turf.” The Canadian’s answer explained this perfectly. This black guy, knowing that he would get his ass whipped bad, took on several guys, because it was what he had to do to be a man.
P.S. As the black man was talking he said something to the effect that he had been knocked out by somebody’s fist. And his doctors and the cops all started laughing, because it was obvious from his head wound that he had been knocked out by a blunt instrument.
Keep repeating back to me something I explained in far greater detail before.
First of all, get your historical facts straight. To the extent there was “systemic racism” against East Asians earlier in this country, it wasn’t fine-grained or selective. Are you seriously suggesting that some anti-Asian activists in California c. 1890’s looked upon a Korean and said, “Hey, you, chink. Ooops. Sorry, I can tell you are Korean, move on”?
Or do you not know that the Asiatic Exclusion League that was active all across the Pacific in both the U.S. and Canada at the turn of the 20th century was originally “the Japanese and Korean Exclusion League”?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiatic_Exclusion_League
For that matter, when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, ethnic Koreans were categorized as enemy aliens and were subjected to similar restrictions, particularly by the military authorities in Hawaii, because the Korean Peninsula was occupied by the Empire of Japan and Koreans were officially subjects of the Emperor. Americans of Korean descent who volunteered to fight for the war were denied and in 1942, those who worked in defense-related sectors were required to wear the same type of ID as the Japanese that restricted their movement. It took considerable agitation from the Korean community in America to repeal the categorization and allow them to fight for their country.
But, setting the history lesson aside, this isn’t playing a “Fellow Asian” game – since you drew parallels between Jewish and Asian immigrant experience of overcoming supposedly systemic racism, I asked you what Jewish equivalents there were to such things as the Chinese Exclusion Act, the Asiatic Exclusion League, and the internment. Instead of answering that, you argue and ooze around the question like a Jell-O.
ROK Marines would beg to differ. And, for that matter, the Aussies were pretty tough.
Two of my uncles were infantry company commanders in Vietnam. They had some crazy stories when they got drunk.
17 years ago now, I lived in Cincy for 3 seasons (summer, fall, winter) and I find your description of it to be accurate. I loved going over to the Kentucky towns on the other side of the river (via one of the several bridges including the miniature Bro0klyn bridge designed by the guy who did the Brooklyn bridge). They had great music venues over there. And the hills and different neighborhoods were a real pleasure., Great and varied restaurants, and friendly people.
I didn’t have enough time to fully explore it all, but I explored plenty and remain fascinated to this day. Even miss it a little.
You know back before Prohibition the downtown area was chock full of bars and the town had the major brewers there–the Germans ran both. It was known then as the Paris of the Midwest and tourists came even from Europe.
Prohibition largely destroyed all of that. Now downtown is a mix of black ghetto and some urban renewal, with a bit of hipster thrown in. Or it was. Wonder how much has changed in 17 years. The cicadas have come and gone again.
It was a good area.
I believe Mr. Unz also brought up a point similar to what I am about to write once or twice, but, here goes. Although the immigrant experiences of Jews and Asians might be similar superficially in the U.S., the fact is that some Asian immigrants have brought vastly different traditions and experiences than the Jews from Europe did.
The Diaspora Jews who fled Europe and came to these shores were often despised minorities in their points of origin. They had never known their own nationhood since the ancient dispersal. Therefore, they had a very strong streak of what commenter AnotherDad would call “minoritarianism” (Michael Barone once wrote that the American Jewish voting behavior could be summarized as “always voting against the Czar”), a sentiment that seems to have been carried to this country. This is one of the reasons why Jews were often at the forefront of radically transforming their host societies and presuming and projecting negative feelings and intentions to their majority hosts.
Meanwhile while some Asian groups had a similar outlook (the highly mercantile Overseas Chinese in Southeast Asia, the so-called Jews of Asia) or certain castes of Indians, other Asian immigrants such as the Japanese and Koreans brought with them “majoritarian” sensibilities. They might have experienced various historical sufferings and oppressions, they were “normal” nations and had feelings and attitudes about how a society should be organized for the benefit of the (vast) majority.
So much so that, in the case of Koreans, once they arrived in America, they became overwhelmingly Protestant Christian and intermarried with whites, in other words, the majority population, at exceedingly high rates especially in the American-born generations. These different sensibilities manifest rather powerfully in such proxy data for civic participation as military service. While Jews often object to military service and certainly avoid it as the numbers make clear, Japanese and Korean immigrants have tended to emphasize patriotism to their sons and have them take to it more eagerly.
It’s not for random reasons that sons of Japanese strawberry farmers and such formed the most highly decorated military unit in American history (the 442 RCT, “Go for Broke”) and the sons of Korean dry cleaners form the vast majority of the “Asians” among the cadets at West Point while Jewish officers speak and write embarrassingly of the scarcity of Jews in the American armed forces.
So much as you like to invoke “Fellow Immigrants” angle here about Jews and Asians, my objection to your framing is based on history and social trends, not some quirk of personal uniqueness or circumstances.
You don’t have to tell me. I am a Catholic.
My kids were outraged when I taught them about the Maryland-Virginia War that was fought before the revolution, in which the Protestants of Virginia defeated the Catholics in Maryland and deprived them of liberties and rights in their own home.
But, lest they dwell in this persecution mentality, I had to explain to them that such lack of rights (e.g. being able to vote or be elected to public office) didn’t stop Charles Carroll from becoming the wealthiest man in the American colonies and one of the Founding Fathers and signers of the Declaration of Independence.
The unofficial motto of my family is “No whining. Now get to work.”
Somewhat amusingly, Maryland is now not all that Catholic (or should I say, it is very Biden Catholic) while the Diocese of Arlington in Northern Virginia is perhaps the most conservative Catholic diocese in the country. Indeed, Catholicism is the plurality Christian denomination in Northern Virginia, once the seat of the Protestant Cavalier power in the Colonies.
I joked with my kids, “Don’t worry. We won in the end.” 😉 As I say to my kids often, “The scions of those who have children inherit the earth. As God commanded, go forth and multiply. I expect grandkids early.”
Doesn’t change the point that access to guns needs to be much better controlled.
You can’t buy antibiotics or sleeping pills without a prescription, but guns..,.
The east side of Cuyahoga County gets three times th snowfall that the west does. Thus well-to-do whites congregate to the west, unless they are of Western Reserve Yankee stock and don’t mind the snow.
Eventually the vibrant run into the least vibrant, the very whites they are least likely get along with. Those with the highest standards.
All you should need to show to acquire firearms is voter registration. Fix that first, and “gun violence” will take care of itself.
Ultimately, the actual constitutional purpose of gun ownership by the citizenry is not self-protection or hunting or anything like that; it is, in the mildest case, to remind the government just who exactly is really sovereign, viz the citizenry and not the feds; and in the harshest case, to teach them a lesson in lead if it comes to that.
If gun access, viz. the right to resist a tyranny, is controlled by the tyranny itself, then the purpose of the exercise is tout-a-fait defeated.
Northern Virginia has the worst voting record in the old Confederacy, outside the Black Belt. Either the total number of Christians isn’t all that much, making the “plurality” less effective, or these Catholics are as corrupted as those of Boston, Chicago, or San Francisco.
I’m surprised at you! Catholicism is not a “denomination”, it’s a church. As are Eastern Orthodoxy and Mormonism. Denominations are a Protestant thing. Even those Eastern and Middle Eastern Catholics in communion with Rome aren’t really denominations, just distinct churches.
I like the idea of minimum age requirements for certain weapons like assault rifles. Perhaps ownership of basic equipment should be automatically allowed for those living in rural areas who might encounter wild animals on their property. There are wild hogs roaming the countryside where I live and I’ve been afraid they might attack me and my dogs when walking at night. The problem was juggling three leashes and a gun, if I had one, in the dark. The hog would’ve killed my dogs well before I could’ve shot it so I found a safer place to exercise my pets instead.
I’m more ambivalent on conceal carry as a deterrent for crime since I live in a state where crime is already low; though we have had our share of school and church massacres in recent years. However, these incidents have occasionally been stopped early by an armed bystander. This is great as long as we don’t end up with frequent gunfights on our streets. NRA types claim would be bad guys will be afraid of being shot if potentially everyone has a weapon but I suspect these guys who go on rampages will either not care or they will wear protective gear. It’s amazing how much preparation some of these killers will make before one of these mass shootings. Nevertheless, Americans have owned guns throughout our history without much problem with them being used to commit murder.
That’s a relatively recent phenomenon, in large part due to the huge number of job-chasing Northern transplants who have moved to the region in the last 10-20 years.
There was a time, not too long ago, when Fairfax County was a Republican suburban stronghold and Loudoun County voted like the Deep South. Don’t forget the recent revolt against the Democrats started in the latter county (even though today its eastern half is dominated by IT Indians and Yankee transplants).
I think the region is still the metro area with the largest church attendance.
Well, to be, completely correct, it is the Church, not a church. Chalk it up to my generous ecumenical spirit when talking to non-Catholics. 😉
Reinstate the poll tax? And a literacy test while we are at it?
What’s a lot? Do you know “a lot” of a single Korean? Or do you mean to suggest that you know many Koreans? How many is a lot, five? Ten? Or somwhere between 0 and three?
Just how many owners of dry cleanerS, liquor storesS, and grocery storeS do you know? Is it like ten of each or are one or two “a lot”?
And if you indeed know the traditional definition of “a lot” of owners of three separate types of businesses, are you some sort of a tax farmer, I mean, tax lawyer or something? Or do you go around a route collecting envelopes filled with cash for your capo?
It is invisible because blacks, the Left, and the media want it to be invisible. It’s a constant reminder that most of the violent crime in this country – and a host of other social ills – are mostly caused by Democrats. It’s an embarrassment to them. They talk about gun control because they don’t want to talk about black violence.
It’s shocking how many rainbow flags have been out for the last week, leading up to “Pride.” Not dozens but hundreds. It’s more than any number of people would have ever gone out to acquire on their own. There was a concerted effort by some organization to get out these flags, and probably for free.
The Woke Cult is as crazy as ever. I fully expect that some day very soon the Left will attempt to make the rainbow flag the official flag of the USA.
I think the outrage is justified. Imagine the horror of a Questioning being hit by a Lesbian bullet.
I was discussing this with my son just the other day. To the degree that the Second Amendment is about self-defense, it’s about defending the populace from tyranny: the rationale is as clear as it could possibly be in the introductory language.
Why politicians tend to shy away from making this point is pretty obvious, but I don’t get why more of their constituents don’t hammer on it all the time.
Asians worship money and admire success.
Jews are obviously quite affluent and successful.
So lots of Asians admire Jews and seek to emulate them.
That’s why there are so many marriages between Asian women and Jewish men. Asian-Jewish couples (like Amy Chua and Jed Rubenfeld) are a common site in elite circles. You’re actually seeing the emergence of a Jewish-Asian elite in much of the country.
Asian parents love seeing their daughters marry Jewish men because it guarantees their grandchild’s future success.
6.9% of America’s adult population are veterans.
For Korean-Americans, 2.7%.
Source: US Census Bureau
Asians (including Koreans) are more than willing to cooperate with Jews when it serves their interest.
Just see this commercial by Congressional candidate Dan Adler, whose wife is Korean.
Korean immigrant woman: “We minorities should stick together.”
My first thought was Lee Boyd Malvo, the juvenile member of the beltway shooters who killed ten.
“Why politicians tend to shy away from making this point is pretty obvious, but I don’t get why more of their constituents don’t hammer on it all the time.”
For one, TPTB moved the goalposts regarding the meaning of ‘tyranny’. It is now conceived to mean requiring ID to vote.
Unsurprisingly, the truth remains the truth. What else would you have people say?
While I can understand our meta-host (((Ron Unz))) not having a “JEW!!!“ or “Gradually I began to hate them.” under “Agree/Disagree/Etc.” (and where would adding particular labels end??) at a certain point either you’re playing to the audience or like me label them a Troll, hit “Ignore Commenter” and get on with your (intellectual) life.
Maybe I do the latter because I’m getting old and this is best a task for the young or those with different priorities. You are very effectively doing the former, including being concise until you quote your ultimate reply. In any case, please keep up the good work, you’ll of course keep having to do it….
I find such accusations unproductive especially if wrong, and here I believe Jack D really is a fairly old Jewish man. It’s just something that comes naturally.
Thanks!
Here’s the best I could find in a few minutes with Bing that might be referring to the above, Protestant Revolution (Maryland) of 1689. Searching is particularly hard because of all the hits you get from the War Between the States a couple of centuries later, but the above and its links do not mention any actions from Virginia, it’s almost all Protestants in Maryland. Any better resources you could point us at?
The NRA is weak sauce and practically doesn’t exist now and for the foreseeable future, but for some reason “these guys who go on rampages” include in their preparations selecting victim disarmament zones AKA the Orwellian named “gun free zones” for their depredations, including those succumbing to Sudden Jihad Syndrome.
The sole exception I know of, although I’d want to check more recent ones, is the Congresswoman shooting in Arizona which happened in a parking lot. That shooter was genuinely severely mentally ill (schizophrenia), but of course society has been handcuffed on that since around 1970 and now that’s on balance a probably a good thing given the abuses gun grabbers are already committing with that excuse, lethally so with “Red Flag” laws against complete innocents so far.
And reversing the order of your comments:
While figuring out deterrent effects would be both interesting and difficult (check out if John Lott has been able find anything), as far as I know Dodge City!!! has never happened anywhere in the US (you think the MSM wouldn’t endlessly harp about such incidents??? And in 20/20 hindsight the Gunsmoke TV series was vile propaganda).
It’s not like this concealed carry isn’t now a huge thing, with 22 states already being Constitutional Carry, no permit required, covering 28% of the population (the large population states of Alabama on 1/1/23, Ohio in a week, and Indiana first of next month will bring it up to half the states and 36% of the population). This got really got started from the base of Vermont without ever having restrictions and Washington state going Shall Issue permitting in the early 1960s to starting with Florida in 1987 a nationwide sweep now covering 43-44 states and 74% of our population.
I live in a much higher crime rate part of deep Red flyover country and can attest armed citizens here are being responsible and are at minimum are helping the police capture criminals. No idea about deterrence especially since we’re archetypical examples of Americans who are “crazy as a shithouse rat,” not uncommonly not letting minor details like not being armed get in the way of confronting, resisting, and/or stopping armed criminals….
It’s pare down, and that’s a lot of pairing considering there are 332 million people in this country.
Another reason is that being too open with attitudes about “the Second Amendment [being] about self-defense, it’s about defending the populace from tyranny” will at minimum get you on a list or higher on existing lists, and at worse case get you the Lubyanka treatment in the The Garland Archipelago.
With yet another non-violent or violence acceptable within Leftist standards like for January 6th feedback mechanism removed, our ruling trash are possibly careening towards turning our cold civil war into a hot shooting one as they palpably want to with Russia if it wasn’t for the latter’s nukes. Celebrating our economic crisis with the literal “never let a crisis go to waste” line or as an “incredible transition” as “Biden” just did is just turning up the heat, understanding in your gut a lot of past world history is becoming easier and easier….
So when a teenager strikes out on his own not only are they denied the right to buy a handgun to defend themselves, they shouldn’t have a center-fire semi-automatic rifle? We should deny three years of such gun ownership to a person whom the nation will grab off them the street and put in the army to fight the nation’s enemies?
Such a “compromise” is simply an attack on American gun culture.
Remember how the People’s Republic of Illinois got that way vis-a-vis FOID cards, waiting periods and gun registration.
It was proposed to the Democrat Gun Controller Cosmopolitans by the Illinois State Rifle Association (ISRA) in 1968 as a sop to allegedly block MORE Gun Control.
All it did was embolden the cosmopolitan gun haters, and make that the BASELINE of allegedly “acceptable gun control.” The IL Republican Black! Gov. candidate Richard Irwin stated recently he wanted to keep the IL FOID card.
And remember, the infamous celebrated Brenda Ann Spencer used a .22LR long gun for her mass shooting.
I really don’t understand what you are getting at. Were or were not Koreans and Jews oppressed to some extent in America (along with Chinese and Japanese and Catholics and everyone else)? Is your point that Koreans were oppressed more and therefore deserve to be higher up on the diversity totem pole than Jews or that nobody in America (except maybe blacks) was really seriously oppressed at all, at least not to the extent that it prevent them from succeeding?
As I have mentioned before, I think that you are allergic to agreeing with me, just on principle. If you would get over this, I think you would find that we largely agree – there was historic oppression of minorities in America (which is largely over with now) but by global standards (e.g. the Japanese genociding Chinese) it was pretty darn good – America has been very accepting of immigrants despite periods of xenophobia and certain doors being closed.
The distinctions you make between Koreans and other Asians are interesting (especially since non-Asians tend to see all yellow people as being alike) but I think overall they are minor – the different histories of the Koreans and the Chinese don’t really mean much if you are a Korean or a Chinese struggling to run a dry cleaners or a laundry – you have the same issues with learning the language and the culture, dealing with customers, etc. Nor are they (one generation removed) unlike the struggles of the Jewish family who might have owned the dry cleaners before you. Your thesis on why the Koreans might send their kids to the military more often is interesting but I get the feeling that a lot of Korean immigrants have military backgrounds themselves and this alone might explain the difference – like many occupations (e.g. medicine) kids often want to do what their parents did. Jews might shy aware from military service in a way that (Christian) Koreans don’t. I have heard that the Air Force Academy in particular had a heavy Christian emphasis such that a non-Christian might feel that he didn’t “fit in” socially. For some reason (I’m not sure why) Jews were a better fit in the Navy.
The fact that Greitens was MeTooed by some sort of disgruntled hairstylist doesn’t take away from his very real military career and the ethical violation allegations were just the usually political smear that keeps most sane people in America far away from politics. After a nearly 18-month investigation into Greitens’s 2016 gubernatorial campaign, the Missouri Ethics Commission (MEC) “found no evidence of any wrongdoing” by him.
Greitens is now running for the Senate with Trump’s endorsement and is the leading Republican candidate in the polls. So I don’t think that your attempt to smear the Jews by pointing to Greitens really works.
So far, on Sunday 6/5, I haven’t found details on the Philly shooting yesterday.
A “street festival” or just roaming, was going on. A lot were killed but no details as of this morning on victims.
My guess is this was a mainly Black! thing due to the racial stats there and lots of people out late on a busy bar street. The shooter (at least the first, reportedly) started shooting into the crowds.
Maybe a mix of vics.
Since no racial info found in any reports yet, we can assume Blacks! were shooters and like victims of gangs.
Updates welcome.
Maryland and Virginia were both subject to the British crown which was unambiguously Protestant following the Glorious Revolution. Maryland could only have been Catholic were it the case they were in rebellion against the crown as Virginia was during Cromwell’s Protectorate.
The key event was the Glorious Revolution in UK.
Maryland was founded as a Catholic colony with the consent of the Crown in 1634. However, Catholic rule was challenged by Puritans in 1650 (they took temporary control until 1658 and outlawed BOTH Catholicism and Anglicanism) and permanently overthrown by Protestants in 1689 (who proceeded to burn all the Catholic churches).
The press is not allowed to say anymore that it was an all-black event, but it was an all-black event. It’s like Pravda in the old days – you have to read between the lines and notice what they DON’T SAY, like not saying that the shooter(s) was white.
Here is a surveillance photo that gives you some idea of the complexion of the crowd. They haven’t outlawed printing photos YET:
When real Yankees transplant, it’s to the west, not the south. To frigid farmland or fertile fishing grounds.
Those moving south are more likely weather wimps of Castle Garden or even Ellis Island heritage.
For gun purchases? Well, we already have them for drivers’ licenses.
”
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In the case of Oak Park, IL and the Austin neighborhood of Chicago, the statistics show that you can have a community adjacent to the Austin neighborhood war zone and still be relatively safe. Consider that during the years from 2006 thru 2019, Oak Park, a “village” of about 52 thousand had a grand total of 6 murders. That is an average annual murder rate of 0.43 murders per year. Contrast this with the fact that in 2021 alone, the Austin neighborhood, with about 96 thousand residents, had 71 murders. These communities are separated geographically by only a street. But culturally, they are completely different worlds.
Statistics.
Slightly over 1/4th of South Koreans are Christian.
Korean-Americans supported Biden over Trump by a 57-26 margin.
https://imgur.com/a/3enj
Korean-Americans have a high rate of self-employment. More than the Chinese and Indians. Korean-Americans also have a strong tendency to hire their fellow Koreans to work for them. See below.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7916112/
The comparable national self-employment rate was roughly 10%.
I was taught about Maryland being set aside where Catholics could freely practice their religion but never that it was stamped out by neighboring Protestants. I had to find that out on my own years later.
I visted some of the sites when I was down that way, interesting story and instructive.
It is an amazing piece of Americana. Everyone has had their stuggles. You get tired of people playing the victim card.
Here’s a short video
What if it were blamed on black genes?
You 2nd Amendment uber alles types are going to have to make compromises sometime. Generally, military enlistment would be an exception to the 21 or 25 and older requirement for owning high powered rifles. We have a problem with very angry, very young males shooting up schools, churches, supermarkets, etc. Focusing on that population specifically to enact gun control measures rather than dragging in, say, blue-haired old ladies to make them more universal is my objective. Yours is likely to make vague, unenforceable legislation that will accomplish nothing.
Oak Park, IL turned many of the through streets connecting it with the Austin neighborhood of adjoining Chicago into culdesacs.
Your side keeps using that word…:
What is your side willing to concede? As opposed to the universal comment after your successes that they’re just a “good first step.”
We’re not going to willingly cede another inch of ground precisely because you’re lying scum, you’re not interested in a compromise but what you can take from us today, tomorrow, and the next day. With the end game of taking our lives after having disarmed us, we’ve seen this game all too often in the abattoir of the 20th Century.
Except what you’re trying for will, if you get too far, result in a hot shooting civil war, and then we’ll be talking about compromises like sending you to Alaskan labor camps instead of death camps in the continental United States.
Compromises are how we ended up here. It’s why we have Armor Piercing bullets bans, why we have a ban on new machine guns, both courtesy of the NRA.
“High powered rifles” are EXACTLY what the American militia needs, and EXACTLY what the Chuck Shumers and Diane Feinsteins fear. They need to fear the general populace.
Why would offering up ARs for youngsters make anyone think that they would stop THIS time when the gun controller has been on the long march of history for almost SIX decades? Look at how after JFK was assassinated they really wanted to go after surplus guns (Import ban SUCCESS with GCA 1968) and how the alleged so-called Saturday Night Special became the boogy man of crime. Handgun bans upheld in the various anti-gun American government’s judiciary. Remember the IL SC decision that as long as SOME gun could be obtained, the local ban on handguns was LEGAL.
It’s foolish to pretend that such compromises result in any benefit to your rights.
And the Lord’s Baltimore were deprived their proprietorship by the Crown or so the following would suggest.
“The rebellion followed the “Glorious Revolution” in England of 1688, which saw the Protestant monarchs William III and Mary II replace the English, Catholic monarch King James II. The Lords Baltimore lost control of their proprietary colony, and for the next 25 years, Maryland would be ruled directly by the British Crown.”
He’s right Twinkie, don’t go all Stormfront.
I’m probably more right-wing than you but I don’t think we can solve our political difficulties by being armed for civil war. For one thing, democratic rule would end as soon as “your side” took up arms against the elected government. Active, continuous participation in the political process is the only feasible strategy. States rights strengthened by nullification rather than the mere taking of territory will liberate us over the long haul. State militias, National Guard and police should be the only ones taking up arms against illegal encroachments by the federal government. Just consider what level of equipment would be necessary for the average citizen to have parity against a policing agency anyway. It’s neither realistic nor necessary.
This is just propaganda from the NRA that’s more about being able to profit by the sale of as much guns, ammo and tactical gear as hobbyists/fantasists will buy. If you’re going to function as a militia then you’re going to have to train as one. It’s ridiculous to think stockpiling of equipment you don’t really know how to utilize will save you from a tyrannical government. It’s just so much stuff taking up space. Also I don’t want the average psycho-killer to have bullets that will pierce police protective gear. The solution to government tyranny is political activism not some futile attempt to arm people against an always better armed government. Even worse, your pro-liberty rhetoric masks a might-makes-right strategy. How’s that gonna make us more free?
Dear Fellow White People, police don’t live in houses, they live in the sky, so we would need our own air force to deal with them.
Literally broken windows — why would “youths” permitted to do all that other stuff imagine that they’re not allowed to spray and pray into a crowd?
It will never not amaze me that our reaction to a tiny number of people overreacting or wrongly reacting to very real and massive problems is to forbid discussion of the problems and then punish everyone who’s not a killer, the most likely outcome of which insanity is of course to generate more killers.
e.g. the Japanese genociding Chinese
This is CCP propaganda so they can shoehorn in on Holocaust remembrance and strengthen their claim on Taiwan. The Japanese right wing would claim that they were liberating Korea, Manchuria and Mongolia from Communism and Han Imperialism.
You of all people should be careful about smearing Japan, since they are a key chesspiece against the bane of your existence — Vladimir Putin.
https://thediplomat.com/2022/06/why-japan-is-getting-tough-on-russia-now/
https://www.tokyoreview.net/2022/05/how-japan-can-defend-taiwan/
and then there was this–
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Ghetto#German_requests,_1942–1944
Dude, the militia is the unorganized militia, defined in statute:
Are you kidding me? Count the rifles the “better armed government” controls and count the numbers in non-government hands. As the Russians say, Deterrence is Intimidation.
Well, Americans have used their firearms to secure their liberty from Democrats run amok right after WW2 in The Battle of Athens.
This is why the Gun Controller works 24/7 to destroy the Second Amendment.
What’s the best way to avoid a hot shooting civil war with the Left? How can you describe your demands as “political difficulties?”
You sure it didn’t with the 2020 election? I’m not sure but I’ve very concerned about fortification of our national elections going forward, your side is not even hiding what you’re doing.
Where do you see me proposing to initiate violence? I and millions of other gun owners are prepared if the Left does to the level of a hot shooting civil war vs. for example the to date very few retail murders of those on right which the authorities are treating seriously, or the Burning, Looting and Murdering in our enemies Blue cities which is not exactly the end of the world for us….
Doesn’t anyone remember what started the hot shooting American Revolution??? If “active, continuous participation in the political process” fails, if the political process itself ceases to exist as such and our ruling trash again tries to seize our guns and ammo, just exactly what do you propose we do? Ignore that the ultimate law of the land, the Constitution is no longer operative and just vote harder?
Why don’t you answer the question about what you claim is “compromise?” Your conception of “active, continuous participation in the political process” is that we lose and you win. You’re not fooling anyone by your “probably more right-wing than” myself or the other gun owners here, you’re a gun grabber who can’t hide your contempt for us and are quite open about how we “are going to have to” surrender in this “active, continuous participation in the political process.” What are you going to do as we continue to defy you?
Move to a state with a Republican governor like Ron DeSantis or Greg Abbott. Support their efforts to stand up to/nullify unconstitutional federal law wrt abortion, transgender, gun rights, etc. Such governors represent lawful authority in following the constitution. They also would know if and when to deploy police and military against the federal government. This of course would be within the bounds of the state in question. Any lower level of organization would be anarchy and simply a manifestation of lawlessness.
As for “compromise”, this is a thing that adults do when working toward a solution with people who have a different set of values and priorities. You NRA types keep insisting that citizens should be able to buy any type of weapon or ammo unless they have certain mental health issues. That’s it. No restrictions for anyone except the mentally ill (or felons). Yet it’s not uncommon throughout the world to establish minimum age requirements (i.e. maturity requirements) for more dangerous weapons. A deeper level of evaluation often accompanies licensing for such weapons as well as a longer waiting period. All ensuring that the person who acquires the more lethal weapon is trustworthy. This is a fair balance between liberty and safety instead of anyone can own anything.
Normally you write nonsensical or crude assertions so I don’t bother to respond, but since you actually posted what appears to be data, I will oblige.
You don’t provide a link or context (which is par for the course for someone trying to mislead and obfuscate rather than elucidate), so it’s hard to tell what numbers you are presenting.
Let’s, for the moment, assume that number is from the “US Census Bureau.” If so, the number likely refers to not “Korean-Americans,” but all (legal) residents of Korean descent in the U.S.
Of those, 41% were born in the U.S. and are thus presumably natural born citizens while 59% were foreign-born (immigrants and Naturalized citizens). I would guess that the overwhelming fraction of those “Koreans” who serve or have served in the U.S. military are those born in the U.S. since foreign-born immigrants face restrictions in military employment (e.g. can’t be commissioned as officers, security clearance issues, etc.). Moreover, a large fraction of Korean arrivals from overseas are older (and a subset of that married with children as well) and are thus beyond enlistment age (Naturalization generally takes 10 years after obtaining permanent residency status, so even younger foreign arrivals will age out).
So, if you are going to compare “Koreans” in America to the general American population, especially in something like military enlistment, you compare American-born to American-born as well as comparing the same generations (since among white Americans, the older ones are far more likely to be veterans – for obvious reasons, i.e. my wife’s grandfather’s generation had an extremely high rate of being veterans – they were drafted for World War II as did her father’s for Vietnam, not to forget Korean in between). This is particularly salient since the U.S. did not have an all-volunteer army until July 1973.
One other thing to note is that while foreign-born Koreans in America likely have low enlistment rates compared to the native-born, Korean or otherwise, they have the second highest enlistment rate after the Filipinos among all foreign-born populations in the U.S. (I think foreign-born Mexicans have the greatest absolute number of enlisted, but that population base is orders of magnitude greater than that of foreign-born Koreans or Filipinos). I think I posted that data from the DoD at some point on Unz.
Another thing to note is that almost all the foreign-born male immigrants from Korea have served in the South Korean military (hence the gun-toting “Rooftop Koreans” during the L.A. Riots, the core of who were South Korean Marine Corps veterans).
You are likely not interested in a genuine, edifying conversation about this topic, but I responded since you at least offered numbers and I wanted other readers and commenters to understand the issue in greater depth.
I don’t hate Jews. I have a close friend who is Jewish (graduate of Annapolis and retired as commander from the Navy).
I do wish though that our (American) Jews were as patriotic in general to our country as Israeli Jews are to Israel, instead of wallowing in, and pushing, the Victim-est People Ever propaganda and what commenter AnotherDad often calls “minoritarianism.” I furthermore wish that our elite Jews (as well as non-Jewish elites) who are indeed vastly overrepresented in the said elite-dom had the noblesse oblige of their WASP predecessors.
Of course, I also wish that blacks who are my fellow citizens were more productive and less criminally-oriented.
If wishes were horses, I guess.
And?
About 20% of South Koreans are Protestant Christians and that makes South Korea the most Protestant country as well as the second most Christian country in Asia after the Philippines.
As for Koreans in America, 71% are Christian, making them the second most Christian among Asians in America (again, after the Filipinos). Try to read the data I posted up-thread: https://www.unz.com/isteve/nyt-in-2016-f-b-i-statistics-show-that-african-americans-who-constitute-about-13-percent-of-the-population-make-up-about-half-of-both-gun-homicide-victims-and-their-known-or-suspected-attackers/#comment-5376977
This is likely due to 1) emigration selection and compounding network effect (Christian Koreans were more likely to emigrate to a once Christian country such as the U.S., which is a pattern replicated with other peoples such as the Arabs, especially the Lebanese, in America) and 2) a high degree of religious assimilation once arrivals landed here.
We don’t. You make certain assertions, I argue against them, then you retreat to seemingly agreeing with me, but you pop up later and repeat the earlier assertions. That’s why many commenters probably think you are a “Hasbara troll.” I think you just like to do the “Fellow” game with different groups – whites, immigrants, etc. – which unfortunately fits the stereotype of the shifty Jew who takes every side in an argument, in an effort to ingratiate himself with others and benefit himself. Are you TRYING to increase anti-Semitism here?
This is yet another example of your dishonest argument. You write as if I make Koreans superlatively distinct from other Asians, perhaps in a ploy to portray me as some sort of a Korean supremacist.
But that’s not what I did. What I actually wrote was that while some Asian immigrants such as the mercantile overseas Chinese in SE Asia or certain Indian caste types tended to share minoritarian histories and sentiments as Jews do, other Asians immigrant groups such as the Japanese and the Koreans tend to exhibit highly majoritarian sensibilities and assimilate rather than attempt to overtake and remake the host society. I also brought up Filipinos as being particularly assimilative (as well as having a very high rate of military service, mostly in the Navy).
Meaning, such different sensibilities tend to lead to different behaviors and cultural traditions in the following, American-born generations, after the superficial first-generation immigrant experience might have been similar to that of earlier immigrants such as the Jews. Again, Jews might share mercantile traditions and aspirations (or Hofjude tendencies) as overseas Chinese from SE Asia or Indian merchant castes do, but others, such as Japanese and Koreans hail from cultures with long histories of despising merchants, even if the first generation in America might have been forced into being small merchants by the circumstances of migration. Do I need to bring up the 442 RCT again? (For example, during World War II, 21 Japanese-Americans won the Medal of Honor despite being a miniscule fraction of the country; the corresponding number for Jewish-Americans is 3 despite the fact that there were many more Jews in the military and in the country). Are you now going to suggest that there were more Japanese grocers in America than Medal of Honor winners to elide this point?
Look, if you don’t wish for a conflict with me on Unz, stop engaging in deceptive argumentation. I prefer that you disagreed with me honestly than go shifty and seemingly agree with me at the end of a very long argument, only to repeat your earlier positions elsewhere/later.
Greitens had an extramarital affair with the “disgruntled hairstylist” – that’s something HE acknowledged (the question of more egregious wrongdoing was over whether he coerced, abused, and/or threatened her). Greitens was divorced from his first wife under cloudy circumstances. Now he is divorced from the second wife who stood by him during that whole mess.
Is it pure chance that Jews (and blacks, I think) seem to be overrepresented among MeToo perpetrators? While the MeToo movement has its share of grifters and opportunists, some of the victims of Harvey Weinstein and the like are likely very real.
Moreover, Greitens himself admitted that he “was provided” with the donor list (by his campaign manager, of course, not by himself, though the campaign manager denied this) from Mission Continues, a nonprofit for veterans he founded earlier. That might satisfy the MEC, but that surely is rather fishy and certainly casts his earlier supposedly noble aim of starting the charity for veterans in a different light. I have my opinion on where his military service fits in context of everything before and after in his career. Others can make judgments for themselves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Greitens
There are a lot of grifters and opportunists who have jumped on the Trump bandwagon. Trump endorsed Madison Cawthorn. Enough said.
Hmmm, a smear, huh? If Greitens is not the most well-known former SEAL of Jewish background, who is it then?
If I were to hazard a guess, I would think most SEALs would pick Jonny Kim or James Suh to be by their side than Eric Greitens, but perhaps you know better.
One thing I wish to make clear is that, contrary to what you seem to imply, I don’t believe in such things as “fierce martial races.” For example, blacks usually make pretty terrible modern soldiery, but Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck was abled to train and command the black askaris of Schutztruppe in Africa to such a high degree that they performed magnificently, sometimes overcoming European troops many time their number.
South Korean troops of 1950 were often panicky peasant conscripts who were liable to break on first contact with their enemies (though there were also numerous examples of extreme courage and sacrifice such as the volunteers – some of them high schoolers – who donned satchel charges and ran into North Korean tanks), but by the late 1960’s, they were earning praise as fierce and effective fighters against the VC in South Vietnam.
The Jews are somewhat a unique case in that they lacked a nation of their own (which meant not having a martial tradition common to most nations and peoples) since the ancient era. But things began to change with the Emancipation and some Jews, such as those in Hungary, were noted for their enthusiasm for fencing and military service.
Likewise, there is a pretty stark cultural difference between, say, American diaspora Jews and modern Israelis. Martin van Creveld, an Israeli military historian, describe diaspora Jews as “men without chests” in one of his books. Meanwhile, in Israel, avoidance of military service brings much social opprobrium as well as severe barriers in most professions. Indeed, Israeli men who serve in high tier combat units such as the Sayeret Matkal tend to do very well in post-military life and are often prized by recruiters.
Cultures can be changed, molded, and constructed (just ask Lee Kuan Yew) though some people are harder to change than others. And that goes for entire groups and individuals. I once had the whole “diaspora Jews as men without chests” conversation with my Jewish friend who is a former Navy commander. His retort was, basically, “Well, I wanted to be a man with a chest, so I became one. I can’t speak for other Jews.”
I would agree that among the East Asians, the Koreans have the strongest attachment to Christianity. More than the Japanese, Chinese, and Vietnamese.
Southeast Asians are more into religion than East Asians, but most of them are either Muslims or Buddhists. The Filipinos, who are overwhelmingly Catholic, are a notable exception.
It’s interesting that’s the case. Korean-Americans are much more likely to be Christian than their co-ethnics in their homeland. It’d be interesting to know if it’s disproportionately Korean Christians who immigrate to the USA, or whether Korean immigrants convert to Christianity.
I believe that Arab Christians disproportionately immigrated to flee ethnic discrimination at the hands of the Muslims. They were also more mercantile and economically mobile than the Muslims who surrounded them. I’m not sure whether that applies to Korean immigrants.
I have noticed that many Korean-American community events revolve around Churches. So I find it plausible that many Korean immigrants join these Churches and convert.
Can you tell me what those are?
Can you not walk and chew gum at the same time?
I am not a libertarian, but Claire Wolfe was pretty prescient when writing that “America is at that awkward stage; it’s too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.”
Personally, I’d like to think that I continue to work within the system to defeat my enemies, but am also ready to shoot the bastards should that unfortunate reality commence.
I wonder what became of reporters Sharon LaFraniere, Daniela Porat and Agustin Armendariz, then ‘facing reality’ of blacks and crime, now presumably purged (with reality)?
Hmmm. The lady doth protest too much. Then again, to you the wogs begin at Calais. Do wogs begin at Cardiff and Edinburgh as well?
Yankees intermingled rather fast not long after the founding of the country. Whites in northern parts of New England such as northern New Hampshire and Vermont have substantial French ancestry. In southern parts of the same, Irish ancestry predominates today.
Even Midwestern descendants of the Yankee migrants (of which my wife is one – she descends on her father’s side from a Continental Army officer who struck westward after the war) are highly intermixed with later arriving Germans and Scandinavians. I think the only “real” Yankees left these are the Mormons of Utah-Colorado, but they are working hard on fixing that.
In any case, the native North Carolinians who call Cary “Containment Area for Relocated Yankees” don’t mean only “real” Yankees. If you inundate the South from the North in search of gold and overrun the local cultural and political traditions, you are a Yankee transplant (more invader, but I aim to be polite).
I really want to see them ‘stand in allyship [what?] with LGBTQ+ communities’ while they are kneeling to the BLM mob.
it’s not uncommon throughout the world
Stop. This is an amazingly inappropriate argument, especially awful regarding the Second Amendment.
There are things for which “compromise” is a Soviet propaganda nonsense term, eg, compromising on whether or not your children should breathe by reducing but not cutting off their air intake.
lol!
No, the rate doesn’t change just because there are more people on one side or the other.
One black man moving to all white Sweden in 1960 faces the same crime rate from whites as a large group of black men moving to a half white Sweden circa 2047 or whenever.
You are thinking in military terms, where more guys on the other side increases the danger for yourself.
I’d have them move on to expressing some basic loyalty to their own people.
I’m not going to address your other comments which are just replowing the same ground, but you mention something that I’ve never heard before:
Could you give us some more detail about this? I know that the Japanese have their samurai who were proud warriors and looked down on those who did not live by the sword, but I’ve never heard anything like this about Korea.
Also I would add, wrt the Japanese, with whom I am a little bit more familiar, that this negative attitude toward commerce was by no means universal and once the modern era arrived, even the samurai class embraced business.
I would also add that every nation needs its merchant class just like it needs a warrior class. A race that is all merchants is no good but so is a race that is all warriors. Nor is it necessary in a diverse country like the US for each ethnic group to contribute warrior and merchants to society in the exact same proportions. According to the doctrine of comparative advantage, society is optimized if each group does what it does best – some contribute by serving on the front line, others may contribute by designing war winning weapons or churning out uniforms.
No, I’m thinking in math terms, as in what you would find in the ratios section of a 5th grader’s textbook.
Was born, raised in, and have retired to just such a state, which has very good gun laws.
Except you’re a liar, defining compromise as us giving up something with absolutely nothing in return. Now that you’d mentioned the word again without addressing your misuse of it, you get the Troll and Ignore Commenter treatment, you’re not worth wasting my time on. Except:
J.Ross and others have made a very good response to the first bit of nonsense in this sentence fragment, but I fail to see any attempts by us “NRA types” (which tells us you know nothing about US gun culture) to lower purchase ages below 18. So again you lie, except maybe out of ignorance and disdain since you refuse to educate yourself on the issue.
Except your choice of handle is either also really ignorant and amazingly coincidental, or a further attack on us which also signals you’re here primarily to attack us.
It’s not uncommon throughout the world for civilian gun ownership to be more or less completely prohibited. The US has a unique history in that regard, in part traceable to its origin as a revolutionary government. In that sense, it is not unlike Mozambique which features an AK-47 on its national flag. We don’t go that far, but the “Minuteman” , an armed civilian carrying a rifle (as well as the cowboy with a six-shooter or two being openly carried on his belt) are iconic American symbols.
Not only is the gun part of our cultural DNA but gun ownership is enshrined in the Constitution with the express understanding that it acts as a safeguard against tyranny. Should the standing army of a tyrant attempt to take power, an armed civilian population could thwart them.
TBH, I don’t see a big difference between gun ownership at 21 vs 18. Both #’s are frequently seen as benchmarks of maturity for various privileges such as voting, drinking, etc. Nor do I think that raising the age from 18 to 21 would have any real effect at the margin. If an 18 year old decides that he wants to commit a mass killing and go out in a blaze of glory, he could just as well steal a weapon or obtain one illegally or use one owned by another family member.
The reason that compromise is not possible is that gun rights advocates see a lack of good faith by the anti-gun faction – what the anti-gun faction would REALLY like is for the US to be like Canada or Australia or NZ in regard to gun ownership (many of them don’t even attempt to hide that desire). Notably, these are the colonies that did NOT have revolutions and this has colored their national character despite their other similarities to the US. So raising the age from 18 to 21 is not a “compromise” in the sense of a permanent settlement (in lawsuits, “compromise” and “settlement” are synonyms) but rather it is viewed by the gun grabbers as merely an interim baby step until even greater restrictions can be enacted. As such, the pro-gun folks see nothing in it for them to set out on that slippery slope. If I said to you that I would like to take a big chunk out of your arm, but as a “compromise” I would be willing to settle for a small chunk (for now), how would you react?
Why not teach them instead about Catholic persecution of, or discrimination against, non-Catholics?
I’m surprised we haven’t heard any policy recommendations from the harm reduction crowd along the lines of giving gang members free target practice/gun training. “If black gang members are going to use guns anyway, we may as well teach them how To shoot less haphazardly.” Harm Reduced.
“Except you’re a liar, defining compromise as us giving up something with absolutely nothing in return.”
OK, here is an example of actual compromise…
Here is our offer: We give you your extreme version of gun control (viz we give up a basic, cherished, and necessary constitutional right). In return, you give us a permanent, hermetically sealed southern border, a permanent immigration moratorium on ALL immigration — no refugee loopholes, no asylum seekers, no H1Bs, no student visas, and you deport all the illegals AND their children.
In other words, we give you your version of “rational gun control,” and you give us our version of “rational immigrant control”.
You won’t take the deal. Your idea of compromise is, We take your guns, and you eat sh!t and die.
And you know it.
“Why not teach them instead about Catholic persecution of, or discrimination against, non-Catholics?”
Because it never happened in America, and hasn’t happened meaningfully anywhere since like, oh, maybe the 1700s.
It’s very simple. The same people who want to disarm Americans were the ones who didn’t just tolerate, but encouraged this:
2 summers ago.
This is different from anything else in American history. In many ways, the late ’60s and early ’70s had far more deadly left-wing terrorism, but for all the leftist chic you saw amongst celebrities, no mainstream political figure, no corporate head, no bureaucrat would have dreamed of supporting that. They would have been run out of town on a rail.
I’ve gone from someone who was indifferent to guns and gun control 5 years ago to being a committed 2A absolutist, and I strongly doubt I’m alone in that journey. The state has made clear that they won’t prosecute people who attempt to harm us. They nonetheless want to disarm us. What did they expect, especially in a context where they lie on TV every day about the most basic matters?
>Was born, raised in, and have retired to just such a state, which has very good gun laws.
As important as it is with some things (guns), a) red states haven’t been immune to the creeping, bureaucratic dysfunction of American life and b) the Usual Suspects have made it clear that they are intent on total, nation-wide victory. This is why I don’t bother with ideas about “national divorce”. They aren’t going to leave you alone. They’ve made it clear that unconditional submission is what they want.
But why flee anyway? Why not play to win for the country? I’ve got nowhere to go, unlike many commentators here, but even if I did, I’d still think that way. This country still has the potential to get back on its feet. Why not go for it?
That would spring, presumably, from the fact that Korea is a Sinic civilization. If I had to guess, this distaste for merchants was probably an outgrowth of power politics refashioned into a matter of ethics. Merchants threatened hereditary aristocrats well past their prime. Expropriating them was a means of restoring the status quo ante. In Europe, merchant princes eventually toppled the ancien regime. Even in China proper, copious financing from merchants led to the end of the last de jure monarchy.
http://sunyatsenhawaii.org/2008/09/02/financing-revolution-sun-yat-sen-and-the-overthrow-of-the-ching-dynasty/
Unfortunately for the Manchurian grandees located at the top of the Qing totem pole, these Chinese merchants in what were European possessions remained out of their reach.
One glaring omission from the article was any question of how many gun deaths were the result of legally obtained weapons used by their actual owners. They never ask the question because they a) don’t want to admit their own ignorance or the poverty of pertinent data, and b) it goes against the prevailing narrative to even ask the question.
Without actual statistics, I’m only guessing that the majority of people who commit gun crimes weren’t conscientious rule-followers to begin with. So the answer wouldn’t appear to be more rules.
(They did manage to sneak a cheap shot about video games in there. Of all the quotes that undoubtedly didn’t make the final edit, the NYT considered that one worth printing).
Having to pass a basic firearm use and safety test wouldn’t be the worst idea ever. But I’d hate to think it would be only as effective as the DMV has been in keeping unfit people from getting behind the wheel…
The data (which refers to the percentage of veterans in the age 18+ population) is from the US Census Bureau. If you would like, you can access this publicly available data source and extract the data yourself. This is why I cited my source, which you can access at any time.
I provided links to the other data that I presented in my previous post. However, the veteran-related data can’t be linked to and requires you to input the requested information into the Census database.
Naturalized immigrants can become commissioned officers.
5 years. Not 10 years.
Only 0.8% of the adult population (1 million in Korea + 0.6 million in Vietnam + 0.3 million in WWII) are veterans of these wars that required drafts.
That’s a good point.
You might find this graph to be interesting.
It’s more like this.
I’ve seen you often try to create this perception that Asians (especially Koreans) are significantly different from Jews and Indians. I’ve also seen you try to claim that Koreans are different from other Asians (especially Chinese).
While I think there’s some truth to what you’re saying, it’s not completely correct either. Koreans (like other Asians) are primarily motivated by financial concerns and the welfare of their family, so they ally with whoever can deliver value to them. For that reason, it’s common for Asian-American women to intermarry with Jewish men.
I don’t think Asians are natural allies of Whites. I think Asians are pragmatic individuals who do what’s good for themselves and their families. Asians are not the type to put their financial interests aside to give a hand to Whites. They’re the type to make the pragmatic decision.
Today, the pragmatic decision is to ally with Jews and the “Woke” brigade. Tomorrow, if the balance of power changes, Asians will change.
Asians aren’t bad people, but it’s not realistic to expect them to go against the system.
Of course. Your motto seems to be “Never admit being wrong or mistaken.” Do you need to win the internet that badly?
In other words, you got your knowledge of Japanese history from watching “Shogun.”
The Samurai stopped being real warriors – lancers and horse archers (as opposed to sword-duelists) – once Tokugawa Ieyasu unified Japan and established the Shogunate. They became the top rung of the Confucian social hierarchy – the scholar-administrators (below which were farmers, artisans, and then merchants, who were in turn above the slaves and untouchables). Ieyasu had granted trading monopoly to a merchant family that assisted him in his quest for domination, but the social status of the latter was low (below farmers and artisans) and, toward the modern era, when merchants started to become more socially prominent, they became even more despised by the Samurai class who were now often heavily indebted to the merchants.
And although Japan became a mercantile modern nation beginning with the Meiji Restoration, the civil administrators and military leaders descended mostly from the Samurai class (even to this day – calling Gregory Clark to East Asia!). And unlike in the U.S. where business controls the government, even today government controls (“sets the industrial, trading, and economic policy and coordinates”) the business in Japan. Indeed, for much of its post-war history, Japan was politically dominated by the conservative Liberal Democratic Party, the electoral base for which was the rural, agricultural voter.
The Joseon Dynasty of South Korea (1392-1897, but really until 1910 as “Korean Empire”) was perhaps the most Confucian state in all of history, even more so than the original source of the philosophy, China, or Japan. The previous Goryeo Dynasty (918-1392) had been Buddhist and militarist (parallel to its counterpart in Japan), but Joseon suppressed Buddhism and established a highly Confucian social structure in which the scholar class dominated. As in Japan, merchants were held in low repute, because they were not seen as possessing the laboring, productive dignity of the farmers and the artisans, but engaging in market manipulations that immiserated the lower classes and brought social and economic instability. (I might add that this is not a purely East Asian phenomenon – in ancient Rome, the Senatorial class was forbidden to engage in trade and derived most of its wealth from landownership and farming and took to utilizing middlemen proxies when engaging in trade – guess which people filled that role, people who became influential enough to steer the Roman Empire into disastrous military attempts to conquer the lucrative frankincense and myrrh-producing regions in the Middle East?)
Even in much of its modern history, South Korea didn’t develop a tradition of small and medium businesses (as occurred in, say, Taiwan) and instead formed a handful of vertically-integrated large conglomerates (Chaebol, based on the Japanese Zaibatsu model) that became powerful, but were still, at the end of the day, instruments of the government in its pursuit of national economic and industrial development. Indeed when the head of a powerful Chaebol failed to appear upon being summoned by President Park Chung-Hee for a conclave of government and business leaders (reputedly he was occupied with his mistress), Park had the conglomerate cut off from government financing and had it dismantled in short order. Or more recently, Lee Jae-yong, the heir and son of the founder of Samsung, was imprisoned for bribery and embezzlement charges.
Are you presenting more dishonest and sophist false choices again? The question of social and national optimality is not about having all warriors or all merchants (or all scholars), but who wields the disproportionate power. A warrior- or scholar-run society has its share of problems, but, from what I can see in the United States, a lawyer- or business-run country quickly turns into a nation dominated by atomized, parasitic, rent-seeking and voluble hustlers.
Sounds like you are acknowledging that the diaspora Jews are men without chests.
The problem with your line of thinking is that, if some people (say Southern and Midwestern whites) specialize in being warriors while others (say Jews) specialize in being merchants and lawyers, you have a society in which the former do all the dying and being maimed at the behest of, and for the financial benefit of, the latter. Maybe that’s all perfectly fine for someone (i.e. you) who belongs to the latter group, but, for some strange, illogical reason, that doesn’t seem to sit well with the former group, especially when it forms the great majority of the country and lead them to expel the latter group as occurred repeatedly in history.
That might be dandy if, indeed, all groups were “contributing” something for the greater benefit of all, but we all know that patriotism is not equally distributed. For that matter, warrior ethos is replete with the notion of sacrifice for the greater good, however imperfectly implemented and carried out (I think West Point still requires the reading of Once an Eagle for its cadets), but I don’t think business schools are really big on teaching sacrifice.
When was the last time you saw a lawyer or a business mogul throw himself in front of a hail of bullets (real or rhetorical) to save his client or his workers, the way officers are taught to rise up and lead their men at the front and risk getting killed first?
Another former gun control turned gun rights advocate:
Lyndon LaRouche! Unlike a true Yankee, an FDR worshipper.
Those Tar Heels themselves are yanquis south of the border.
Let’s not forget the great South-to-north wave during and between the big wars. A lot of Michigan’s many pop and other stars have family roots in Dixie. Colonization goes both ways.
More recently, many Southern queers have moved north, though more have probably moved west. We don’t view them as representative of their homeland, the way Southerners assume carpetbaggers are typical of the rest of us boreals.
Gag me with a ladle…
Recalls Milton Berle’s joke about attending a service at a gay church. Only half the congregation was kneeling.
You can provide the link to the database and then indicate what search terms used. Be that as it may…
You are correct. Legally, it is minimum of 5 years after permanent residency. The typical application process time is between 1-2 years, so in reality we are talking 6-7 years after receiving a green card (one exception is for spouses of American citizens, for whom the minimum is 3 years).
Yes, however, there are caveats. For the army, for example, you have be under 32 years old (used to be 29 years old) and have to be eligible for secret security clearance. If you are someone who graduated from college overseas and emigrated to the U.S. at age 22-23, spent several years getting the green card and then spent 6-7 years getting the citizenship, you are out of luck. Anyone older, of course, will be ineligible, period. And that’s not even factoring in the issue of security clearance which is complicated for those with extensive foreign affiliations (family, friends, etc.).
You are playing apples-to-oranges game again. Let’s look at the data, shall we?
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2020/demo/acs-43.pdf
As of 2018, the total veteran population was about 17,960,000. Of those, WWII veterans were 485,000 (quite sad, only 8 years before in 2010, there were 5.7 million), Korean War veterans were 1,306,000, and the Vietnam War veterans were 6,384,000. And those who served in peacetime were 4,034,000. That number could be any period from post-WWII to today (and presents challenges in separating the pre- and post-all volunteer military switch).
When you combine the veterans of the three wars, we have 8,175,000. That number alone is 46% of all veterans alive today. Add those who served in peacetime, we are likely looking at more than 50% of the veterans alive being from the Vietnam War era and before.
Note that most Koreans in America today weren’t even around this country during this timeframe, as large-scale Korean immigration did not start until the late 1970’s and through the 1980’s. The average age of Veterans alive today in this country is 65. This is why it makes no sense to gauge American military participation rate for Koreans or any other populations that are 1) majority foreign-born and 2) have a relatively recent history of migration by comparing it to the native populations or those whose migrations were much earlier.
It’s not interesting at all, because I already saw it a long time ago. I read and cite data from Migration Policy Institute quite a bit, because it is one of only a few institutions in this country that does serious data-collection and research into immigrant populations in a fine-grained manner. And about that…
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/immigrants-us-armed-forces-2008
MPI has data on who – among foreign-born population – was currently serving as of 2008.
Note that those born in Korea accounted for the 4th highest number of foreign-born serving American military personnel. Now, factor two additional variables – the overall (or base) foreign-born population for each and age cohorts.
Although Mexicans are no. 2 on the list and have 3 times as many serving as Koreans, there were over 11.7 million Mexican-born people in the U.S around that time (2010) while there were about 840,000 Korean-born here. That means that Korean immigrants were serving at more than 4.5 times the rate as Mexican immigrants did. And that despite the fact that the Korean immigrants were considerably older on average than Mexican immigrants.
And, again, these are immigrants who face certain restrictions in military service. So, if you want to compare apples-to-apples in military service, you should compare across the same demographic categories, in particular citizenship and age group. Sadly that fine-grained data is not readily available, but as anyone who attended West Point in the last 30-40 years can attest, American-born Koreans are significantly overrepresented among the cadets there and in the army officer corps (and, to repeat, Filipinos are highly overrepresented in the Navy – the joke for Filipinos is Navy or Nursing or better yet, nursing in the Navy). For many years, “Kim” was the modal surname at West Point graduations.
Because they are different people with different behavior patterns, including assimilation?
For the umpteenth time:
The rest of your assertions and slogans are exactly those, so require no commentary.
What was FDR? 😉
I’ve been there all along, brother. Welcome!
Then again, I was a gun nut in Asia, so…
The anti-Yankee Yankee. Very popular in the South. Set records there.
1936 United States presidential election in South Carolina
Work harder on those political underpinnings please. From a moral standpoint, we should be doing everything possible in the political realm before resorting to violence. Really there’s a tremendous amount of apathy on the right except for those unfortunates who love to attend MAGA rallies. So, no, you haven’t earned the right to use your gun as a means of negotiation. If past behavior accurately predicts future behavior, you never will.
Nadler wasn’t prepared. Obviously, those who serve in the military should be allowed to purchase guns at a younger age. Or you could raise the age for military enlistment to 21. Just because the argument was said to be strong doesn’t mean it actually was. That technique gets used a lot nowadays like some lame Jedi mind trick. My other take on this is that Tucker is being disingenuous in what he refers to as most guns being outlawed, disingenuousness being one of Tucker’s gimmicks.
I’m of a mind that anything beyond what a hunter needs should be restricted. I’d establish maybe three levels of weapons based on how lethal they are along with whether they’re semiautomatic/automatic. Level one almost anyone could own; Level two would have more restrictions; Level three, the most, i.e. being 25 or older.
The idea that the citizenry should be armed so they can use force to take over the government if need be seems a bit preposterous considering all the equipment necessary for such an undertaking. So does any crazy 18 to 20 yo being able to buy a semiautomatic rifle just to make certain the US has the fewest restrictions possible for gun ownership.
Seems your contention is that rates change with population dynamics.
I haven’t seen that in a fifth grade math book lately.
More likely to see this:
Earth is inhabited by two kinds of water pumps. Water pump “B” pumps 12 times as much water as water pump “W”. If water pump B is 1/6 the population of pumps, what is the ratio of water pumped by pump B? Answer: 2:1
Doesn’t the threat of violence or exit underlie any negotiation? We’re trained to let central authorities negotiate on our behalf while we give them monopoly power, but we can certainly hold out for a different arrangement.
Wasn’t pro-gun control, either: grew up around guns and always accepted them as a normal part of life. I was just indifferent. Not anymore.
The point I’m trying to make is that self-fulfilling prophecies are the order of the day: the more the authorities harp on disarmament while visibly dismissing the security of American citizens (and increasingly flat out hating them), the more people will take the 2A seriously. And perhaps that’s the way it should remain, looking at history. Blaming spree shootings on guns is facile: American boys brought guns to school all the time 70 years ago, yet this didn’t happen. I also think it is facile to blame it on video games or porno or weed or any other easy scapegoat. It’s our deep cultural rot that causes this, combined with a few other factors that are far less popular to blame like SSRI usage.
I too have dabbled in libertarian thought experiments. Unlike you, I have reached the same conclusion as the Who: “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.”
Contempt for merchants as parasites, especially juxtaposed against the “selfless” scholar-bureaucrat ideal, is a Confucian thing, and it was about them leeching off the “honest” poor as much as anything else: the stock villain image would be them ripping off the upright farmers who was producing the food that everybody needed in the end.
This anti-merchant attitude was not shared to the same degree across all East Asian societies, or across all time periods: Tokugawa Ieyasu embraced a state ideology of neo-Confucianism that was cloaked in “traditional” garb but was in reality a departure from previous practice, much as Augustus or Diocletian did.
>Yes, however, there are caveats. For the army, for example, you have be under 32 years old (used to be 29 years old) and have to be eligible for secret security clearance.
Waivers apparently do exist. With the amount of younger Americans ineligible for service for one reason or another, I suspect recruiters will be at least willing to hear someone out if they can clearly physically/mentally hack it, and the issues that would have blocked them are well in the rear view mirror, be they naturalization or other stuff.
It’s funny how many more rules there are now, for all the supposed “liberation” of society. They might be more brittle than the rules of yestercentury, but in the world of anarcho-tyranny, all it can sometimes is a brittle rule and someone motivated to use it. The military hasn’t been immune from this trend. Better to go fewer but more serious-and more transparent/evenly applied.
My point is that it boiled down to basic power politics – the naked struggle for power. The bureaucrats were the New York Times of their era. They owned the *official* narrative, imposed at sword point, and the merchants did not. Oriental rulers viewed merchants as sources of competition, much as they did the large aristocratic families. The difference is that as arrivistes, self-made and/or low-born merchants were easier to dispose of, whereas attacking well-entrenched aristocratic clans could result in civil war, with unpredictable consequences for the ruler. Once internal ructions started, anyone with a grievance against the throne, from local brigands all the way to the ruler’s closest confidants (who had developed loftier ambitions) had this way of joining a blanket party centering on the ruling house.
Agree here, and would throw in media glamorization of shooters as part of the problem.
Yeah, Cosby looks like a case of the insider warning others to get off the path while they can.
True enough, and I’d suggest our bosses are getting worse, in a “perfection of the market” kind of way: they are getting better at explaining to us how nothing can be done about crime and other social issues, while getting better at putting trannies in bathrooms and other damaging things.
You make a good point when you say that the civilian veteran data do NOT control for age or immigrations status. So here’s some more relevant data, extracted from the link below.
https://blogs.uoregon.edu/sarahlilf17gateway/
Read this quotation from the link.
Asian-Americans are 4.8% of the ROTC, while Non-Hispanic Whites constitute 72.1%. So Whites outnumber Asians by 15 times (72./4.8 = 15.0) in the ROTC.
What percentage of university students are Asian? See this quotation from the below link.
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/raceindicators/indicator_reb.asp
In undergraduate fall enrollment in degree-granting institutions, Asian-Americans outnumber Whites by 8.3 times (9.1/1.1 = 8.3).
So if Whites outnumber Asians by 15x in the ROTC and only 8.3x in the undergraduate student population, then White university students are 1.8x more likely to join the ROTC than Asian students.
That’s an apples to apples comparison. The data only includes US Citizens & permanent residents, with the added benefit that we’re only looking at individuals from the same future socioeconomic track (undergraduate students).
As for Korean-American students, I can’t find data on that. The data is much too granular to be easily accessible. Only data pertaining to all Asian-Americans are easily accessible.
The US Census (which is totally separate from the above undergraduate data) found that 2.7% of Korean-American adults were veterans, compared to 2.1% of the entire Asian-American adult population. So Koreans were roughly 1.3x more likely to be veterans than other Asians. I suppose it’s possible that the same multiplier could apply to the ratios that I calculated above.
According to the data source below, Korean were 2.7% of America’s foreign-born population in 2008.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/korean-immigrants-united-states-2008
So Koreans were 3.1% of the foreign-born in the armed forces, but 2.7% of the general foreign-born population. That’s a ratio of 1.15 times. So you are correct that Koreans are more represented than other foreign immigrants, but the difference is small.
You brought up that Korean immigrants served in the armed services at a higher rate than Mexican immigrants. One reason is because many Mexicans are here illegally and therefore can’t serve.
Why are Koreans and Chinese so far apart in the chart that you presented?
On the other hand, we could draft all the illegal aliens for a Foreign Legion and use that as a deterrent against all the Military Age Males invading the border!
Maybe we could send some Mexican illegals to fight in Ukraine. Then the illegals would abandon their military units and flee into the countryside, subsisting by operating taco stands and playing Mariachi music at birthday parties.
Race, Disparities, and Violent Crime | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter | The Glenn Show
Jun 9, 2022
Sounds plausible. Here are some thoughts:
1. This only deals with university students. The army takes about 65% of its officers via ROTC. The other services do lower fractions.
2. Again, permanent residents are barred from the officer corps. Don’t forget Asian university students are a mix of natural-born citizens, Naturalized citizens, and permanent residents (+ foreign students who are usually counted separately, but not always).
3. It doesn’t address the fact that various Asian sub-groups have vastly different enlistment and officer commission rates (which fact I emphasize repeatedly and which you seem to find objectionable for some reason).
The illegal immigration population from Mexico in 2010 was estimated at 6.2 million in 2010 by Pew. So even when you factor them out, the Korean-born enlisted at 2x the rate of the Mexican-born (and that’s assuming all the Korean-born were legal immigrants).
Don’t forget that Korean immigrants much older than, say, Mexican immigrants. The latter are also more male-loaded. So in reality, when comparing across age cohorts and sex, Korean immigrants probably enlist at higher than 2x the rate of Mexican immigrants.
Fella, I can write a whole book on that topic. Short answer: they are different peoples who come from different countries with different cultures and religious proclivities as well as different immigration selections.
Race is highly salient in this country. Elsewhere national differences are more salient.
One of the great faults of the english language is it’s power to turn verbs into nouns. These lives weren’t scarred by a “shooting” – “a shooting” isn’t actually a thing. They were scarred by a shooter.