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From the New York Times:

Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men

A survey of employee salaries at Google reached a surprising conclusion: More men than women were being underpaid. The company acknowledged that the analysis did not address broader issues of gender inequity.

By Daisuke Wakabayashi

Isn’t he a pitcher?

March 4, 2019

SAN FRANCISCO — When Google conducted a study recently to determine whether the company was underpaying women and members of minority groups, it found, to the surprise of just about everyone, that men were paid less money than women for doing similar work.

It’s almost as if the NYT’s regular correspondent on Silicon Valley discrimination issues, Claire Cain Miller, is a feminist propagandist rather than an objective reporter.

The study, which disproportionately led to pay raises for thousands of men, is done every year, but the latest findings arrived as Google and other companies in Silicon Valley face increasing pressure to deal with gender issues in the workplace, from sexual harassment to wage discrimination.

Gender inequality is a radioactive topic at Google. The Labor Department is investigating whether the company systematically underpays women. It has been sued by former employees who claim they were paid less than men with the same qualifications. And last fall, thousands of Google employees protested the way the company handles sexual harassment claims against top executives.

After all, after merely a half dozen years of media hysteria over how women and blacks/Hispanics were supposedly being discriminated against by Google, it came as a total shock that Google was paying the beneficiaries of this campaign more than they deserved.

It’s almost as if James Damore were correct about contemporary Google.

… Google seems to be advancing a “flawed and incomplete sense of equality” by making sure men and women receive similar salaries for similar work, said Joelle Emerson, chief executive of Paradigm, a consulting company that advises companies on strategies for increasing diversity. That is not the same as addressing “equity,” she said, which would involve examining the structural hurdles that women face as engineers. …

In response to the study, Google gave $9.7 million in additional compensation to 10,677 employees for this year. Men account for about 69 percent of the company’s work force, but they received a higher percentage of the money. The exact number of men who got raises is unclear. …

Google’s work force, especially in leadership and high-paying technical roles, is overwhelmingly male and mostly white and Asian. Its efforts to increase diversity has touched off an internal culture war. In 2017, James Damore, a software engineer, wrote a widely circulated memo criticizing the company’s diversity programs. He argued that biological differences and not a lack of opportunity explained the shortage of women in upper-tier positions.

By the way, Damore is a good example of how Hans Christian Andersen was wrong about The Emperor’s New Clothes. Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right, the CEO just fired his ass.

“Speak truth to power, young Damore? I’ll Speak Power to Truth to you and we’ll see who wins.” [Evil CEO cackling …]

iSteve commenter jimmyriddle pointed out the same thing happened last year at the BBC. From the Daily Mail:

BBC pay review branded a whitewash: More MEN than women will be handed salary rises by the Corporation after auditors found no gender bias despite 6.8 per cent difference in salaries

BBC pays male news presenters nearly 7% more than female ones on average

There are 50% more male news presenters at Corporation than female hosts

Report found BBC had limited ‘objectively verifiable evidence’ to justify pay gap

By KATHERINE RUSHTON MEDIA AND TECHNOLOGY EDITOR FOR THE DAILY MAIL

PUBLISHED: 18:26 EST, 30 January 2018

The BBC was accused of making the gender pay row worse last night as its report into the affair recommended giving pay rises to more men than women.

The long-awaited review, branded a whitewash by critics, also found there was no evidence of ‘gender bias’ when it came to setting pay, despite an avalanche of complaints from female staff earning less than their male colleagues.

And the corporation tried to explain away pay discrepancies for men and women doing the same jobs by saying male presenters were often paid more for ‘non-gender-related reasons’ – for example, because they are better known or more experienced.

Yesterday, female BBC staff said the verdict flew in the face of their experiences, and had only stoked their anger further.

But did the data fly in the face of their Lived Experiences? That’s what counts these days.

 
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  1. Anonymous[931] • Disclaimer says:

    Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right

    I don’t know a lot about Damore, but I suspect describing him as “spergy” is innacurate and unfair. How about “earnest” or “analytical” or “candid” instead?

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas


    Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right

     

    I don’t know a lot about Damore, but I suspect describing him as “spergy” is innacurate and unfair. How about “earnest” or “analytical” or “candid” instead?

     

    I think Erik Weinstein stated that Damore is "on the spectrum."

    In any event, it is spergy to think when the people who hammer you day in and day out about diversity ask for your input that they really want your input and constructive suggestions rather than a regurgitation of "MOAR DIVERSITY."
    , @AndrewR
    Unfair? Maybe.

    Impolite? Probably.

    Inaccurate? Highly unlikely.

    "Spergy" is not mutually exclusive with any adjective you listed there.

    As many people pointed out, he should embrace being called "spergy" because an Asperger's diagnosis would give him a toehold to sue Google for discriminating against him for his apparent disability.

    , @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well. There are some things you do not say at work about your employer who pays you > 100,000 K per annum who can fire you because he does not like the color of your shoelaces and it won't bother him a bit. That he worked there means is not stupid.

    (You may think they made a mistake firing him but the guy who fired him is still there and I am pretty sure he thinks it was the right call.)

    , @Reg Cæsar

    How about “earnest” or “analytical” or “candid” instead?
     
    Not to mention "right".
    , @Dieter Kief

    By the way, Damore is a good example of how Hans Christian Andersen was wrong about The Emperor’s New Clothes. Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right, the CEO just fired his ass.
     
    Ehh - Steve Sailer, if you please: The Emperors New Clothes is a fairy tale. It's an outstanding and commonly acknowledged*** quality of those to be counterfactual. That's what makes them interesting - and what helps them survive in the collective mind - - -over centuries, even. Which is a miracle of sorts, isn't it?

    *** cf. Erich Fromm, Märchen, Mythen Träume (= The forgotten Language - an Introduction into the Understanding of Dreams, Fairy Tales and Myths); Ernst Bloch: The Principle of Hope, Bruno Bettelheim: Kinder brauchen Märchen (Kids need Fairy Tales - don't know whether this one is translated though).
    , @Desiderius
    Unlikely it’s inaccurate (spergeness correlates with those qualities) and only unfair if one harbors one’s own anti- sperg prejudice.

    Signal your weak virtue elsewhere.
    , @Counterinsurgency

    I suspect describing him as “spergy” is innacurate and unfair. How about “earnest” or “analytical” or “candid” instead?
     
    Well -- it's like this --
    T. Carlson [1] has pointed out that the US dominant class is selected first by social class, then by competitive examination (essentially for IQ and diligence). Social class determines the sort of job you might have, competitive examination weeds out the real incompetents. HBD says that IQ is largely hereditary, so those who are selected for in this system will tend to be the descendants of those who _have done_ well - a hereditary class, with some constraints.
    What Carlson _doesn't_ say is that the system selects people with an IQ somewhere between 100 and 115, maybe 120 sometimes. Carlson strongly implies it in his biography of Chelsea Clinton, but doesn't explicitly say so.

    Fact is, 110 to 115 (or even 120) just isn't that bright. People in this range can make decisions within well defined fields, but generally can't extend the field. They do their jobs well, but can't define their jobs. That's one reason why successors of founders (corporate or political regime) generally freeze the form of the organizations whose founding they supported, and quite often can't so much as use the forms defined by the organization's founders. This is obvious in the case of corporations, and perhaps more so in politics. H. Clinton couldn't make B. Clinton's political organization produce results. Napoleon's Marshals couldn't win when assigned command of units that had won for Napoleon (and, in fact, you could say that all of France has never quite made its semi-Napoleonic system produce results anything like those of Napoleon).

    So: what do these selected for 110-115 people do? To refer to Whyte [2], management concentrates on morale issues, and relies on the "captive screwball" for the hard thought. Whyte was contemptuous of this approach, which he thought would fail, but nevertheless described it well. The mainline executives really did, to be blunt, dehumanize the people outside their 110-115 range.

    And they are still doing it, only now the term is "spergy", meaning, roughly, "he's more than 20 points IQ above me, and we don't have any common abstractions (or more than 15 and, we don't have many common abstractions).

    The problem is worse now than it was in Whyte's time (and it was bad then -- the corporations Whyte worked with are all dead or dying, "captive screwball" didn't work). It is worse because software and high tech eats up people. Throughout my career, I've found technical people being destroyed by their jobs, just like coal miners used to be. Quite often, they never have a family, no kids, which means that high IQ plus persistence doesn't favor reproductive fitness these days [3], perhaps even in the 110-115 range.

    And, to avoid realizing that, the people involved are referred to as non-humans [4]. Of course, a second result of this linguistic convention is to convince the half-bright that they are the pinnacle of human existence. Which, as Carlson points out, is what they do think [1].

    Counterinsurgency



    1] T. Carlson.
    _Ship of Fools: How a Selfish Ruling Class Is Bringing America to the Brink of Revolution_
    Simon and Schuster, 02/10/2018.

    2] chttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Organization_Man

    3] Usual measure of reproductive fitness is the "grandchildren" test -- how many grandchildren did the couple produce?

    4] Consider "male" and "female" in security force communications. Ever wonder what the Hell they are? I mean, "male" is obviously not a human. If it were, then the word would be "Man" or "Boy". Same with "female". Clearly non-human, or "Woman" / "Girl" would be used. By the same token, they aren't multi-cellular organisms (not "male dog" or "female tree", because "male" and "female" are adjectives, not nouns). So what the heck are they?
    Could it be that "male" and "female" are political speech inserted into security force communications? And that the true purpose is to hide the fact that the communications are about men, women, boys, girls, children, even from the people making the communications?
    http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit
  2. Wow, Steve is back with the bang after a slow few days.

    • Replies: @res
    Steve does a great job of keeping a consistently high level, but there are inevitable peaks and valleys. Not to mention a probable need for recovery after Jussiegate.

    But it helps when the NYT serves up a hanging fastball like this article. Has it come down yet?

    It is very telling to look at the Reader Picks comments for this article and notice which ones are and are not also NYT Picks.

    P.S. Any thoughts on whether this is related to the Damore lawsuit? The last news I see there is it went to arbitration in October: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/10/18/googles-fired-diversity-memo-engineer-exits-lawsuit-for-arbitration/
    Any news since? The NYT article says: "The matter has been moved to private arbitration. Its status is unclear."
  3. The name could be clumsily misread as “I enjoy new growth forests.” However, with the kanji it narrows down a bit: Daisuke as a male given name is unrelated to the more often heard application of those sounds (Japanese doesn’t distinguish similar words with tones, it expects you to know by context), so this Daisuke is “great” something. Wiki lists Japanese sportsball players with this name as largely having the best-ever athlete name besides Champ: “Big Help.” Wakaba is young leaf, which may be familiar to people who have dealt with Japanese traffic because of the eminently sensible practice of marking new and old drivers with a sticker depicting a stylized old or new tree leaf. In America we discover the age of the driver when we exchange insurance.

  4. Men account for about 69 percent of the company’s work force, but they received a higher percentage of the money.

    Shouldn’t that read “and therefore they received a higher percentage of the money”?

    They never miss an opportunity to obfuscate when it comes to perfectly understandable, proportional representation.

  5. >HCA’s ENC
    I thought that, in the original story, the boy gets his ass a whoopin.

  6. Does this include H-1B’s? Could the indentured tech class skew the results?

  7. Since H1-B visa holders are generally underpaid and exploited as a rule, Google could achieve more equitable pay by either sending them all back to the subcontinent, or by paying and treating them like Americans, which would defeat the purpose of the slave visa.

  8. @Anonymous

    Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right
     
    I don't know a lot about Damore, but I suspect describing him as "spergy" is innacurate and unfair. How about "earnest" or "analytical" or "candid" instead?

    Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right

    I don’t know a lot about Damore, but I suspect describing him as “spergy” is innacurate and unfair. How about “earnest” or “analytical” or “candid” instead?

    I think Erik Weinstein stated that Damore is “on the spectrum.”

    In any event, it is spergy to think when the people who hammer you day in and day out about diversity ask for your input that they really want your input and constructive suggestions rather than a regurgitation of “MOAR DIVERSITY.”

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Nah, what it takes is a bit of anger and a lot of courage. This "on the spectrum" phrase bugs the hell out of me. Who started that crap? My Mom takes Spectrum vitamins - is she on the spectrum? WTF?
    , @L Woods
    Who the hell cares what these vile sycophants want? Such a rare display of moral courage should only be applauded, yet I'm not surprised at all to see all the boomercons out to ridicule a better man than they could ever have dreamt of being.
  9. • Replies: @sabril
    Of course, this idea that society is biased against women is pure feminist nonsense. It's as wrong as wrong can be -- in reality society is very much biased in favor of women.
  10. … Google seems to be advancing a “flawed and incomplete sense of equality” by making sure men and women receive similar salaries for similar work, said Joelle Emerson, chief executive of Paradigm, a consulting company that advises companies on strategies for increasing diversity. That is not the same as addressing “equity,” she said, which would involve examining the structural hurdles that women face as engineers. …

    We can help bring down these hurdles. For a fee.

    After that, we can address the sub-structural hurdles that women face as persons of gender.

    Meanwhile in the UK:

    UK tech has a month left to bare gender pay gaps, but less than a fifth of firms have ponied up

    All companies with 250 or more employees must publish the differences between women and men’s pay under rules introduced in 2017. For private sector firms the deadline is 4 April, while public sector bodies have until 30 March.

    …. Others missing from the list are those that were at the top and bottom of last year’s rankings.

    They include some of the worst performers last year, excluding Agilisys, which slots into third position in this list: Gartner UK Limited (median pay gap 43.3 per cent); Capita plc (42.5 per cent); EMC Europe (39.4 per cent); and Gemalto (39 per cent).

    Last year, the company that was closest to gender pay parity – in median terms – was accountancy software pusher Sage, where the pay gap was 0.1 per cent.

    Meanwhile, just three companies in the 100 in the El Reg list paid women more than men last year: BT by 2.3 per cent; PlusNet by 3.8 per cent; and HP Inc UK by 12.7 per cent.

  11. Problem is engineers and programmers are too damn introverted and let management walk over them when it comes to pay raises.

  12. “ it found, to the surprise of just about everyone, that men were paid less money than women for doing similar work.”

    Funny, I’m not surprised in the least.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    Right? They mean "to the surprise of good-thinking people" which is all that matters.

    "despite an avalanche of complaints"
     
    Can't we just reward whoever complains the most, and be done with it?

    Until next year, I mean. Can't see how that could ever go wrong.
  13. @Alec Leamas


    Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right

     

    I don’t know a lot about Damore, but I suspect describing him as “spergy” is innacurate and unfair. How about “earnest” or “analytical” or “candid” instead?

     

    I think Erik Weinstein stated that Damore is "on the spectrum."

    In any event, it is spergy to think when the people who hammer you day in and day out about diversity ask for your input that they really want your input and constructive suggestions rather than a regurgitation of "MOAR DIVERSITY."

    Nah, what it takes is a bit of anger and a lot of courage. This “on the spectrum” phrase bugs the hell out of me. Who started that crap? My Mom takes Spectrum vitamins – is she on the spectrum? WTF?

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Nah, what it takes is a bit of anger and a lot of courage.
     
    This.

    Bunch of cowards here on iSteve.

    , @Redneck farmer
    "On the spectrum" means you can legally buy speed, aka Adderall.
    , @Brutusale
    Tech 'sperginess was a staple of Douglas Coupland's technology-industry novels, especially Microserfs (1995) and JPod (2005), along with just about any Neal Stephenson novel.
    , @Counterinsurgency
    As I recall, it was the "American Psychiatric Association", APA, that started the "on the spectrum" business. They did the seemingly reasonable: said that mental disease is not binary, in the sense of "on/off". It is more or less severe. The APA has an insatiable desire for money, hence patients. The amazing thing to me is that a discipline whose basic assumptions have been falsified by contemporary neuroscience, and that has produced such disasters as the street people ("homeless") should continue to exist, but omit that for the present. I suspect it is for the same reason we have police and butchers.

    In the "on the spectrum" affair, API said that, since autism is a lot like intelligence (idiot savants sometimes have autism), it followed that intelligent people had autism. It was a major boon to the half bright.

    Counterinsurgency
  14. …the way the company handles sexual harassment claims against top executives.

    Like endorsing their wives for president?

  15. @Anonymous

    Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right
     
    I don't know a lot about Damore, but I suspect describing him as "spergy" is innacurate and unfair. How about "earnest" or "analytical" or "candid" instead?

    Unfair? Maybe.

    Impolite? Probably.

    Inaccurate? Highly unlikely.

    “Spergy” is not mutually exclusive with any adjective you listed there.

    As many people pointed out, he should embrace being called “spergy” because an Asperger’s diagnosis would give him a toehold to sue Google for discriminating against him for his apparent disability.

  16. Crazy today, normal tomorrow.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    Pre-order my book.


    @TitaniaMcGrath
    Activist. Healer. Radical intersectionalist poet. Selfless and brave. Pre-order my book.

    I'm baffled here and there just how closely knit self-adoration and self-promotion are these days.
    , @MichiganMom
    Just when you think peak crazy has been reached. Then I see two articles in The NY Times that seem equally nuts. From the prospective of a traditional conservative woman they are gonna have to f**k themselves because no one else will want to.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/30/movies/women-in-movies.html

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/12/21/style/jen-gunter-says-your-vagina-is-terrific.amp.html
    , @Pericles
    I wonder where Godfrey Elfwick went?
  17. @Anonymous

    Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right
     
    I don't know a lot about Damore, but I suspect describing him as "spergy" is innacurate and unfair. How about "earnest" or "analytical" or "candid" instead?

    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well. There are some things you do not say at work about your employer who pays you > 100,000 K per annum who can fire you because he does not like the color of your shoelaces and it won’t bother him a bit. That he worked there means is not stupid.

    (You may think they made a mistake firing him but the guy who fired him is still there and I am pretty sure he thinks it was the right call.)

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well.
     
    Nope. Google had a free wheeling culture that encouraged open discussion, criticism.

    In addition, maybe he had a sense of justice and BALLS.
    , @Autochthon

    That he worked there means is not stupid.
     
    Fearless leader makes tell we are for agreeing is not stupid.

    https://us.toluna.com/dpolls_images/2018/05/23/34038b70-07f5-407c-bb0b-17aa6206264e_x365.jpg
    , @L Woods
    Moral courage = "not well:" the conservative mentality in a nutshell. This is why my sympathy for the average person on the wrong end of globohomo has dwindled to nothing.
    , @J.Ross
    I mentioned this earlier but I shared a meal with some boomers, all highly intelligent, highly qualified people, in professions that do not gladly suffer fools, and none of them had any idea what's been happening lately. They thought it was 1989 or something. One of their circle happened to not be present, and they observed that he apparently was a more right-leaning guy, and they were chalking it up to brittle, hysterical over-sensitivity on his part.
    , @AnotherDad

    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well.
     
    Pathetic.

    Maybe the guy is interested in something, cares about something, beyond rubbing two coins together.

    We need more such "not well" people, and fewer "how many coins can i get bending over for the global cosmopolitans" people.
    , @Desiderius
    This sort of arrogant cowardice masquerading as worldly sophistication is how we got in this mess.

    Your evident ideal is grossly unmanly.
    , @Pericles
    Damore's real crime was mansplaining the issue. But he obviously thought he was working at truth-oriented engineering company when he really was at catty backstabbing martinet company. That was a mistake.
    , @Alden
    You’ve never endured a diversity brainwashing session have you? You can’t just sit there and say nothing. You are forced to participate in all sorts of role playing that degradesWhites. The facilitators even monitor facial expressions.

    I never had to write anything. But people are forced to speak and listen. The idea is to break down your biases and prejudices and then you’re born again or something .

    Not going along enthusiastically gets a nasty session with HR and a warning to go along with the latest degrading program.

    From what I remember, participants in that degrading brainwashing session were told to write a memo on why google wasn’t sufficiently diverse and what could be done to make it more diverse.

    So Damore did what he was told. And was fired
  18. Any time someone uses the term “equity” it means they are demanding the target audience’s total capitulation to their preferred narrative of how the world supposedly is and ought to be – and even that won’t stop the flogging.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    This. Our tradition is equality, not in nature (where there is no equality), but in the application of the law. Murder is wrong when you do it or when I do it; that's legal equality. Equity is jive they made up and as legitimate as if I started invoking the Constitution to justify monarchy.
    , @Pericles
    All we want is equity of outcome. Which means regardless of the situation, we get to have it better than you.
  19. Anonymous[931] • Disclaimer says:
    @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well. There are some things you do not say at work about your employer who pays you > 100,000 K per annum who can fire you because he does not like the color of your shoelaces and it won't bother him a bit. That he worked there means is not stupid.

    (You may think they made a mistake firing him but the guy who fired him is still there and I am pretty sure he thinks it was the right call.)

    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well.

    Nope. Google had a free wheeling culture that encouraged open discussion, criticism.

    In addition, maybe he had a sense of justice and BALLS.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Nope. Google had a free wheeling culture that encouraged open discussion, criticism.
     
    Oh, yeah? Where is it now?

    China?
    , @Marty
    Nope. Google had a free wheeling culture that encouraged open discussion, criticism.

    I realize the legal aspect of Damore's firing was chewed over pretty thoroughly here last year, but this matter of the declared "openness" policy is something I still don't understand. I actually attended parts of the first-ever California wrongful discharge trial, back in '82, Rulon-Miller v. IBM. The plaintiff was a typewriter saleswoman who was fired for being in a romantic relationship with a guy who worked for a competitor. The case established that she was entitled to rely on, and enforce, a declared policy that IBM would respect its employees' personal privacy. Though I'm no longer in the biz, I don't think the case has ever been overruled, so I don't understand why Damore couldn't have taken advantage of it.

    , @Reg Cæsar

    Google had a free wheeling culture
     
    For a free-wheeling culture, try SAAB instead:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsOkabAYres


    In America, Cords were freewheeling, too:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj2EXXGXgyc

  20. Anonymous[931] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    Nah, what it takes is a bit of anger and a lot of courage. This "on the spectrum" phrase bugs the hell out of me. Who started that crap? My Mom takes Spectrum vitamins - is she on the spectrum? WTF?

    Nah, what it takes is a bit of anger and a lot of courage.

    This.

    Bunch of cowards here on iSteve.

    • Agree: L Woods
    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    Anonymous[931] wrote:

    Bunch of cowards here on iSteve.
     
    So true, so true. I'm not even gonna touch the irony right there.
  21. OT:

    Bad taste meltdown, memeworthy imagery, Justice League of TwitHysterica on the case:

    ‘F*** n****rs & Jews!’ Alabama [high school] students caught praising holocaust in shocking viral VIDEO

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    The media is ecstatic over this and the swastika beer pong kids because it means distraction from the Jussie and Covington disasters.
  22. @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well. There are some things you do not say at work about your employer who pays you > 100,000 K per annum who can fire you because he does not like the color of your shoelaces and it won't bother him a bit. That he worked there means is not stupid.

    (You may think they made a mistake firing him but the guy who fired him is still there and I am pretty sure he thinks it was the right call.)

    That he worked there means is not stupid.

    Fearless leader makes tell we are for agreeing is not stupid.

  23. @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well. There are some things you do not say at work about your employer who pays you > 100,000 K per annum who can fire you because he does not like the color of your shoelaces and it won't bother him a bit. That he worked there means is not stupid.

    (You may think they made a mistake firing him but the guy who fired him is still there and I am pretty sure he thinks it was the right call.)

    Moral courage = “not well:” the conservative mentality in a nutshell. This is why my sympathy for the average person on the wrong end of globohomo has dwindled to nothing.

    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Moral courage = “not well:” the conservative mentality in a nutshell.
     
    One of the late great Bob Whitaker's most important observations was that physical courage and moral courage were both uncommon, but that of the two, moral courage was by far the less common, and to find both in the same individual was and is almost unheard of.

    Men who had won medals in combat stayed mute at the court martial of a fellow serviceman who was in the right, because "they didn't want to endanger their career", even if they were 90 day wonders who had no intention of staying in after the war.

    My own father had considerable physical courage but no moral courage whatsoever in the face of his employers. He knew fraud and embezzlement were going on but he stayed quiescent because he figured the top guy in the office was getting a kickback. Every year at Christmas we got at least a dozen bottles of booze, tickets to Blues and Cardinals games (he'd trade the Cardinals tickets and take us to the Arena/Checkerdome for the Blues games) and gift cards for Stan Musial & Biggie's and Rich & Charlie's, high ticket eateries in St. Louis in the day. I'm sure it wasn't all out of the goodness of the hearts of the vendors sending the stuff.

    ( I did make a friend in maintenance there that got me into World of Wheels shows and the famous Who gig where Big LMM and her Hereford crew (long second 'e') completely upstaged Towser & Co. for free, plus the pizza was very good to my teen palate and Blues games often had spectacular fights on the ice. One of the Blues players was fucking a (married and milfy) woman who lived down the street from me. They moved out when they got divorced and a former Sled Driver and his wife moved in. So this wasn't all bad. )
  24. @Alec Leamas


    Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right

     

    I don’t know a lot about Damore, but I suspect describing him as “spergy” is innacurate and unfair. How about “earnest” or “analytical” or “candid” instead?

     

    I think Erik Weinstein stated that Damore is "on the spectrum."

    In any event, it is spergy to think when the people who hammer you day in and day out about diversity ask for your input that they really want your input and constructive suggestions rather than a regurgitation of "MOAR DIVERSITY."

    Who the hell cares what these vile sycophants want? Such a rare display of moral courage should only be applauded, yet I’m not surprised at all to see all the boomercons out to ridicule a better man than they could ever have dreamt of being.

  25. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve been following the wage gap controversy for a while. I got interested when I went down a rabbit hole trying to track down the source and methodology used in coming up with a particular percentage figure that was commonly used in the UK by television presenters to quantify pay inequity.

    What I learned after chasing it down from site to site to its ultimate source was that it was, literally, the percentage difference between the amount of wages paid to men per capita divided by that paid to women per capita, in the UK.

    There was no attempt whatsoever to make an apples to apples comparison by job type, responsibility level, supervisor or 360 job competency ratings, educational level, years of experience, nothing.

    What Google is doing, and what the BBC did in their audit, is to attempt to come up with an apples to apples number, at least in terms of intra-company job category (I’m not sure if they go beyond that to experience or work product quality: probably not at this stage, althogh Google is geeky enough to try it).

    If you have been keeping up with this, however, the other side has long telegraphed their next moves:

    1. First up will be claims that women aren’t hired for the top jobs because of of structural discrimination. Structural discrimination is like racism in that the less there is as time goes on, the more hysterical people are about seeking it out. Structural discrimination will be said to be things like having jobs that coop you up in a room by yourself for long periods of time, a culture of overtime, a hostile environment for menstruation time off, and finally stuff like child care and leaves and sabaticals relating to children, which directly leads to the cutting edge being discussed in places like Denmark …

    2. Recent studies are starting to show that almost all lf the wage gap is because women are more likely to bail out of careers to stay home with kids, and then 15 or 20 years later try to reenter the job market and find that, surprise surprise, the guys (and women) who didn’t take a break like that are earning more than them. This seems like common sense and more feature than bug, but no, say the radical feminists. Nations should dictate equal lifetime compensation in some way.

    What this way is, has been left a little vague. As I understand it, it goes beyond paying women at the same annual salary when they reenter as the people who stuck it out are getting, even though they have a couple of decades more experience. No, this is not enough: somehow women need to be compensated at the same rate that their colleagues are being compensated at their original companies, even though women who are caring for children are no longer in the workforce.

    I’m guessing that this will materialize in the form of a payment from companies, perhaps partially subsidized by taxpayers, to any woman who quits to care for children, which will rise annually with raises, keeping up with what she would have made in the company. Will men who quit to raise children be eligible for this payment? Can a couple both quit to raise children and both get paid? Look forward to a severe rise in helicopter parenting until the whole system finally comes crashing down from bankruptcy and migrant inflow.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    the guys (and women) who didn’t take a break like that are earning more than them.
     
    Hooray for the guys. Not so hooray for the gals. In this case, I have more sympathy for the mothers.

    Not that the means to address this should be unearned pay. Just pay their husbands more. And their husbands' female competitors less.
    , @Kaganovitch
    Finally, something to look forward to.
  26. @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well. There are some things you do not say at work about your employer who pays you > 100,000 K per annum who can fire you because he does not like the color of your shoelaces and it won't bother him a bit. That he worked there means is not stupid.

    (You may think they made a mistake firing him but the guy who fired him is still there and I am pretty sure he thinks it was the right call.)

    I mentioned this earlier but I shared a meal with some boomers, all highly intelligent, highly qualified people, in professions that do not gladly suffer fools, and none of them had any idea what’s been happening lately. They thought it was 1989 or something. One of their circle happened to not be present, and they observed that he apparently was a more right-leaning guy, and they were chalking it up to brittle, hysterical over-sensitivity on his part.

    • Replies: @res
    Sounds like an indication it would be worth trying to share a meal with him.
    , @Bleuteaux
    The Boomer disconnect is breathtaking. As long as their assets continue to rise in value, they couldn't care less.
    , @ben tillman

    I mentioned this earlier but I shared a meal with some boomers, all highly intelligent, highly qualified people, in professions that do not gladly suffer fools, and none of them had any idea what’s been happening lately. They thought it was 1989 or something.
     
    Just how clueless were they? What did you mention that they were unaware of?
  27. @Arclight
    Any time someone uses the term "equity" it means they are demanding the target audience's total capitulation to their preferred narrative of how the world supposedly is and ought to be - and even that won't stop the flogging.

    This. Our tradition is equality, not in nature (where there is no equality), but in the application of the law. Murder is wrong when you do it or when I do it; that’s legal equality. Equity is jive they made up and as legitimate as if I started invoking the Constitution to justify monarchy.

    • Replies: @Arclight
    The left doesn't even pretend to be in favor of equality because it allows for differences in outcomes - equity is the new concept and it demands the same outcomes regardless of talent or effort. It's a totalitarian concept at its core, and if we had a functioning media in this country, they would be interrogating the politicians and academics on the left who are pushing this idea so the public could judge whether it's something they want to live with.
  28. Isn’t he a pitcher?

    Why do you assume he’s gay?

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    You're thinking of catchers, hoss
  29. @El Dato
    OT:

    Bad taste meltdown, memeworthy imagery, Justice League of TwitHysterica on the case:

    'F*** n****rs & Jews!’ Alabama [high school] students caught praising holocaust in shocking viral VIDEO

    The media is ecstatic over this and the swastika beer pong kids because it means distraction from the Jussie and Covington disasters.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    >swastika beer pong
    The stuff I miss out on by not owning a TV ...
    Hmmm, the first comment for the OC Weekly's treatment illustrates fringe fraying:

    John Szabo
    March 3, 2019 at 5:14 pm

    https://ocweekly.com/author/gsanroman/

    Inform your extremely ignorant reporter that it’s not funny to make this kind of a joke out of such a serious story!?

    “The teens did “Nazi” see that coming!”

    The aforementioned is from his story and an attempt to make a joke/pun out of this horrific happening.

     

    https://ocweekly.com/oc-high-schoolers-sieg-heil-over-swastika-beer-pong/
  30. @Anonymous

    Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right
     
    I don't know a lot about Damore, but I suspect describing him as "spergy" is innacurate and unfair. How about "earnest" or "analytical" or "candid" instead?

    How about “earnest” or “analytical” or “candid” instead?

    Not to mention “right”.

  31. @Anon
    I've been following the wage gap controversy for a while. I got interested when I went down a rabbit hole trying to track down the source and methodology used in coming up with a particular percentage figure that was commonly used in the UK by television presenters to quantify pay inequity.

    What I learned after chasing it down from site to site to its ultimate source was that it was, literally, the percentage difference between the amount of wages paid to men per capita divided by that paid to women per capita, in the UK.

    There was no attempt whatsoever to make an apples to apples comparison by job type, responsibility level, supervisor or 360 job competency ratings, educational level, years of experience, nothing.

    What Google is doing, and what the BBC did in their audit, is to attempt to come up with an apples to apples number, at least in terms of intra-company job category (I'm not sure if they go beyond that to experience or work product quality: probably not at this stage, althogh Google is geeky enough to try it).

    If you have been keeping up with this, however, the other side has long telegraphed their next moves:

    1. First up will be claims that women aren't hired for the top jobs because of of structural discrimination. Structural discrimination is like racism in that the less there is as time goes on, the more hysterical people are about seeking it out. Structural discrimination will be said to be things like having jobs that coop you up in a room by yourself for long periods of time, a culture of overtime, a hostile environment for menstruation time off, and finally stuff like child care and leaves and sabaticals relating to children, which directly leads to the cutting edge being discussed in places like Denmark ...

    2. Recent studies are starting to show that almost all lf the wage gap is because women are more likely to bail out of careers to stay home with kids, and then 15 or 20 years later try to reenter the job market and find that, surprise surprise, the guys (and women) who didn't take a break like that are earning more than them. This seems like common sense and more feature than bug, but no, say the radical feminists. Nations should dictate equal lifetime compensation in some way.

    What this way is, has been left a little vague. As I understand it, it goes beyond paying women at the same annual salary when they reenter as the people who stuck it out are getting, even though they have a couple of decades more experience. No, this is not enough: somehow women need to be compensated at the same rate that their colleagues are being compensated at their original companies, even though women who are caring for children are no longer in the workforce.

    I'm guessing that this will materialize in the form of a payment from companies, perhaps partially subsidized by taxpayers, to any woman who quits to care for children, which will rise annually with raises, keeping up with what she would have made in the company. Will men who quit to raise children be eligible for this payment? Can a couple both quit to raise children and both get paid? Look forward to a severe rise in helicopter parenting until the whole system finally comes crashing down from bankruptcy and migrant inflow.

    the guys (and women) who didn’t take a break like that are earning more than them.

    Hooray for the guys. Not so hooray for the gals. In this case, I have more sympathy for the mothers.

    Not that the means to address this should be unearned pay. Just pay their husbands more. And their husbands’ female competitors less.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Hooray for the guys. Not so hooray for the gals. In this case, I have more sympathy for the mothers.
     
    Why have more sympathy for mothers? They are the lucky ones. After all, they are now MOTHERS, which is one of life's great gifts. You should have sympathy instead for the desperate single men and women still working away at their cubicle jobs.
  32. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @L Woods
    Moral courage = "not well:" the conservative mentality in a nutshell. This is why my sympathy for the average person on the wrong end of globohomo has dwindled to nothing.

    Moral courage = “not well:” the conservative mentality in a nutshell.

    One of the late great Bob Whitaker’s most important observations was that physical courage and moral courage were both uncommon, but that of the two, moral courage was by far the less common, and to find both in the same individual was and is almost unheard of.

    Men who had won medals in combat stayed mute at the court martial of a fellow serviceman who was in the right, because “they didn’t want to endanger their career”, even if they were 90 day wonders who had no intention of staying in after the war.

    My own father had considerable physical courage but no moral courage whatsoever in the face of his employers. He knew fraud and embezzlement were going on but he stayed quiescent because he figured the top guy in the office was getting a kickback. Every year at Christmas we got at least a dozen bottles of booze, tickets to Blues and Cardinals games (he’d trade the Cardinals tickets and take us to the Arena/Checkerdome for the Blues games) and gift cards for Stan Musial & Biggie’s and Rich & Charlie’s, high ticket eateries in St. Louis in the day. I’m sure it wasn’t all out of the goodness of the hearts of the vendors sending the stuff.

    ( I did make a friend in maintenance there that got me into World of Wheels shows and the famous Who gig where Big LMM and her Hereford crew (long second ‘e’) completely upstaged Towser & Co. for free, plus the pizza was very good to my teen palate and Blues games often had spectacular fights on the ice. One of the Blues players was fucking a (married and milfy) woman who lived down the street from me. They moved out when they got divorced and a former Sled Driver and his wife moved in. So this wasn’t all bad. )

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I'm relived to see a comment that single-handedly and statospherically displaces my own sometime zany, biography-of-Dr.-Evil tales of weirdness and disjointed adventures, as once gently and humourously pointed out to me by another to whom I owe an apology for not remembering just now.

    Carry the torch high, my friend.

    And tell us more about the scanadlous MILF and the pizza.
  33. @Anonymous

    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well.
     
    Nope. Google had a free wheeling culture that encouraged open discussion, criticism.

    In addition, maybe he had a sense of justice and BALLS.

    Nope. Google had a free wheeling culture that encouraged open discussion, criticism.

    Oh, yeah? Where is it now?

    China?

  34. I work in tech. At my last company, my boss (who had a good number of reports under him) terminated a gal, and she complained to HR that it was due to sexism. An investigation was launched, and sure enough – it came out that the gals were actually being paid more on average than the guys were.

    • Replies: @Bleuteaux
    Anyone in a major corporate setting knows this is 100% true. Women are routinely promoted beyond their capabilities, get away with little or no work ownership or responsibility, can never be criticized, and cause all kinds if social discord among lower caste employees, both men and women.

    The goal of all of this, as Steve alludes to, is not pay equality but extra pay to women just for being women. That's why you see the ridiculous salary grade differences for a man and a woman who perform almost the same job, and the waves of made up, HR type jobs with zero responsibilities.
  35. Anonymous[931] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    the guys (and women) who didn’t take a break like that are earning more than them.
     
    Hooray for the guys. Not so hooray for the gals. In this case, I have more sympathy for the mothers.

    Not that the means to address this should be unearned pay. Just pay their husbands more. And their husbands' female competitors less.

    Hooray for the guys. Not so hooray for the gals. In this case, I have more sympathy for the mothers.

    Why have more sympathy for mothers? They are the lucky ones. After all, they are now MOTHERS, which is one of life’s great gifts. You should have sympathy instead for the desperate single men and women still working away at their cubicle jobs.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    I meant "sympathy" in the sense of support, not pity. They're keeping the race going.
  36. A survey of employee salaries at Google reached a surprising conclusion: More men than women were being underpaid.

    It’s not surprising at all. This is pervasive across the broader economy. Women are given affirmative action jobs in government and education, where they make stupid money with benefits, stability, and lots of time off, while men are competing for $12-15 an hour temporary trucking and roofing jobs.

    I saw a bunch of guys the other day framing up a big two-story house in 19 degree weather, climbing through rafters in the snow thirty feet up. All white men, not a woman among them. The trucks and cars they were driving were old beat to shit junkers. Women were driving past in new Lexuses and Nissan Maximas on their way to “work” jabbing at cell phones with acrylic nails and sipping coffee.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Most trades guys drive pieces of shit to work while the Corvette and Harleys sit in the garage.
    Railroaders usually have 2 piece of shit cars, one at home and one at the hotel where they stay during turns. Motels on contract to the railroad have packed parking lots and the RR sometimes poays extra for this.
    , @sabril

    Women are given affirmative action jobs in government and education
     
    It's not just affirmative action, though. People in general prefer women to men, all things being equal. It's called "women are wonderful" bias and it's been scientifically documented.
    , @TheJester
    Corporate "Show and Tell" ... Work-Life Balance

    I've known and worked with a number of women on "Lifestyle" tracks in aerospace firms. My daughter-in-law is currently one at Google. I'm wondering if the turbulence associated with trying to fold "Lifestyle" options into a competitive workflow is causing many women to feel discrimination in their "lived experiences". Background below:

    One of the latest turbs in corporate behavior is to show corporations are "women-friendly" by offering career tracks called "Lifestyle" tracks". The "Lifestyle" tracks are allegedly offered to everyone ... but only women, it seems, dare take them. They are tailor-made for working moms.

    "Lifestyle" track employees are offered flexible schedules to provide a meaningful work-life balance. The understanding is that they can take time to take kids to school and pick them up, attend school plays, take kids to the doctor, stay home when the kids are sick, and stay home on "snow days" when school is out, etc. They are supposed to make up hours to cover time off ... but they quickly notice that no one notices. As company policies, the "Lifestyle" track employees are promised there will be no recrimination when it comes to raises and promotions.

    Not surprisingly, however, this is not how things turn out. These cozy, high-paying jobs are fun while they last, but when a corporate crunch comes, managers are aware of who is on them from experience, vetting, or reputation. Managers won't touch them. They eventually find themselves shunted off to "Never-Never Land" as they are passed over for promotions and raises. Lateral moves to new companies are practically impossible for the same reasons.

    The "lifestyle" track employees eventually notice their careers have stalled. They feel cheated; they often grow bitter. The corporations, however, keep them on as "carrying costs" associated with advertising themselves as being "women-friendly" places to work.
  37. res says:
    @indocon
    Wow, Steve is back with the bang after a slow few days.

    Steve does a great job of keeping a consistently high level, but there are inevitable peaks and valleys. Not to mention a probable need for recovery after Jussiegate.

    But it helps when the NYT serves up a hanging fastball like this article. Has it come down yet?

    It is very telling to look at the Reader Picks comments for this article and notice which ones are and are not also NYT Picks.

    P.S. Any thoughts on whether this is related to the Damore lawsuit? The last news I see there is it went to arbitration in October: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/10/18/googles-fired-diversity-memo-engineer-exits-lawsuit-for-arbitration/
    Any news since? The NYT article says: “The matter has been moved to private arbitration. Its status is unclear.”

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Not a lawyer but that sounds like Google outmaneuvered him.
  38. @Anonymous

    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well.
     
    Nope. Google had a free wheeling culture that encouraged open discussion, criticism.

    In addition, maybe he had a sense of justice and BALLS.

    Nope. Google had a free wheeling culture that encouraged open discussion, criticism.

    I realize the legal aspect of Damore’s firing was chewed over pretty thoroughly here last year, but this matter of the declared “openness” policy is something I still don’t understand. I actually attended parts of the first-ever California wrongful discharge trial, back in ’82, Rulon-Miller v. IBM. The plaintiff was a typewriter saleswoman who was fired for being in a romantic relationship with a guy who worked for a competitor. The case established that she was entitled to rely on, and enforce, a declared policy that IBM would respect its employees’ personal privacy. Though I’m no longer in the biz, I don’t think the case has ever been overruled, so I don’t understand why Damore couldn’t have taken advantage of it.

  39. @J.Ross
    I mentioned this earlier but I shared a meal with some boomers, all highly intelligent, highly qualified people, in professions that do not gladly suffer fools, and none of them had any idea what's been happening lately. They thought it was 1989 or something. One of their circle happened to not be present, and they observed that he apparently was a more right-leaning guy, and they were chalking it up to brittle, hysterical over-sensitivity on his part.

    Sounds like an indication it would be worth trying to share a meal with him.

  40. @res
    Steve does a great job of keeping a consistently high level, but there are inevitable peaks and valleys. Not to mention a probable need for recovery after Jussiegate.

    But it helps when the NYT serves up a hanging fastball like this article. Has it come down yet?

    It is very telling to look at the Reader Picks comments for this article and notice which ones are and are not also NYT Picks.

    P.S. Any thoughts on whether this is related to the Damore lawsuit? The last news I see there is it went to arbitration in October: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/10/18/googles-fired-diversity-memo-engineer-exits-lawsuit-for-arbitration/
    Any news since? The NYT article says: "The matter has been moved to private arbitration. Its status is unclear."

    Not a lawyer but that sounds like Google outmaneuvered him.

  41. @Anonymous

    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well.
     
    Nope. Google had a free wheeling culture that encouraged open discussion, criticism.

    In addition, maybe he had a sense of justice and BALLS.

    Google had a free wheeling culture

    For a free-wheeling culture, try SAAB instead:

    In America, Cords were freewheeling, too:

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Freewheeling was common on Studebakers and many non Big 3 cars before the war and into the fifties. All two cycle cars-Saabs, DKWs, had it so the engine wouldn't seize because if the engine were being turned with no fuel flow there was no oil either.

    They went to oil injection right before they abandoned two stroke engines. The last two stroker was the Trabant in East Germany.

    Two cycle cars were popular in very cold climates mostly but DKWs were license built in both Argentina and Brazil. They smoked and made a lot of noise but were fast for their displacement and fun to drive for a second or third car.

    Saab had a lifetime warranty on its two strokers for several years in the US and they honored it until sometime in the eighties at which time they finally just offered to buy out and junk them. The four cylinder Ford powered versions are much more common in the US, and they still had free wheeling, at least for a while. Now the two stroke Saabs are collectors items but most interest in them is in very specific areas of the country. You can't give them away elsewhere, but the people who want them will come out and pick them up.
  42. If there were any truth to feminist claims of gender equality women would be a significant percentage of founders and CEOs of software companies.

    You might counter with YouTube’s Susan Wojcicki, however, she was a humanities major in college and was essentially the Erlich Bachman of Google.

    If there were gender equality women would create world class software firms made up *only* of women, built simply to prove to the world the equality of men and women. But its not going to happen to a non-trans woman.

    Today software developers look at SJWs and their journalists like Fat Tony, and the mob, trying to get their cut.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    A number of women have done a good job of managing tech companies after their founding, but the number of women who are actual founders is remarkably small. The other Wojcicki sister might be one example.
  43. And the corporation tried to explain away pay discrepancies for men and women doing the same jobs by saying male presenters were often paid more for ‘non-gender-related reasons’ – for example, because they are better known or more experienced.

    Or more popular with lady viewers.

    Some actress complained that Justin Bieber was making more than she. That isn’t the problem.

    The problem is that Justin Bieber is paid anything at all.

    You can blame the girls for that.

    For a time there, the Osmonds were catching up to the Beatles. And that’s with no sales to males.

  44. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dr. X

    A survey of employee salaries at Google reached a surprising conclusion: More men than women were being underpaid.
     
    It's not surprising at all. This is pervasive across the broader economy. Women are given affirmative action jobs in government and education, where they make stupid money with benefits, stability, and lots of time off, while men are competing for $12-15 an hour temporary trucking and roofing jobs.

    I saw a bunch of guys the other day framing up a big two-story house in 19 degree weather, climbing through rafters in the snow thirty feet up. All white men, not a woman among them. The trucks and cars they were driving were old beat to shit junkers. Women were driving past in new Lexuses and Nissan Maximas on their way to "work" jabbing at cell phones with acrylic nails and sipping coffee.

    Most trades guys drive pieces of shit to work while the Corvette and Harleys sit in the garage.
    Railroaders usually have 2 piece of shit cars, one at home and one at the hotel where they stay during turns. Motels on contract to the railroad have packed parking lots and the RR sometimes poays extra for this.

  45. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Google had a free wheeling culture
     
    For a free-wheeling culture, try SAAB instead:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsOkabAYres


    In America, Cords were freewheeling, too:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj2EXXGXgyc

    Freewheeling was common on Studebakers and many non Big 3 cars before the war and into the fifties. All two cycle cars-Saabs, DKWs, had it so the engine wouldn’t seize because if the engine were being turned with no fuel flow there was no oil either.

    They went to oil injection right before they abandoned two stroke engines. The last two stroker was the Trabant in East Germany.

    Two cycle cars were popular in very cold climates mostly but DKWs were license built in both Argentina and Brazil. They smoked and made a lot of noise but were fast for their displacement and fun to drive for a second or third car.

    Saab had a lifetime warranty on its two strokers for several years in the US and they honored it until sometime in the eighties at which time they finally just offered to buy out and junk them. The four cylinder Ford powered versions are much more common in the US, and they still had free wheeling, at least for a while. Now the two stroke Saabs are collectors items but most interest in them is in very specific areas of the country. You can’t give them away elsewhere, but the people who want them will come out and pick them up.

    • Replies: @North Carolina Resident
    Nearly 40 years ago I drove a neighbor's 1968 Saab 96. V4 engine, 4 speed on the column. Free wheeling transmission as you describe. Front wheel drive. It was great in the snow. One of the coolest cars I've driven

    The neighbor regrets selling years ago and wants another one. Where can one buy an old Saab cheap?

    Thanks for reminding me of a good memory.
    , @Mr McKenna
    Funny, someone just said something about spergs.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    Saab didn't abandon freewheeling until '72 or '73, so there is an "Overton window" of a few years of freewheeling four strokes. Those may be particularly sought by enthusiasts. I know that's what I'd want.
  46. @Anonymous

    Hooray for the guys. Not so hooray for the gals. In this case, I have more sympathy for the mothers.
     
    Why have more sympathy for mothers? They are the lucky ones. After all, they are now MOTHERS, which is one of life's great gifts. You should have sympathy instead for the desperate single men and women still working away at their cubicle jobs.

    I meant “sympathy” in the sense of support, not pity. They’re keeping the race going.

  47. @DevOps Dad
    If there were any truth to feminist claims of gender equality women would be a significant percentage of founders and CEOs of software companies.

    You might counter with YouTube's Susan Wojcicki, however, she was a humanities major in college and was essentially the Erlich Bachman of Google.

    If there were gender equality women would create world class software firms made up *only* of women, built simply to prove to the world the equality of men and women. But its not going to happen to a non-trans woman.

    Today software developers look at SJWs and their journalists like Fat Tony, and the mob, trying to get their cut.

    A number of women have done a good job of managing tech companies after their founding, but the number of women who are actual founders is remarkably small. The other Wojcicki sister might be one example.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    A number of women have done a good job of managing tech companies after their founding...
     
    Really? Like who?
  48. The whole point of tech companies wanting foreign labor was because they were cheap to pay. But the white women in the personel department were loud about demanding their fair due.

  49. @AndrewR
    The media is ecstatic over this and the swastika beer pong kids because it means distraction from the Jussie and Covington disasters.

    >swastika beer pong
    The stuff I miss out on by not owning a TV …
    Hmmm, the first comment for the OC Weekly’s treatment illustrates fringe fraying:

    John Szabo
    March 3, 2019 at 5:14 pm

    https://ocweekly.com/author/gsanroman/

    Inform your extremely ignorant reporter that it’s not funny to make this kind of a joke out of such a serious story!?

    “The teens did “Nazi” see that coming!”

    The aforementioned is from his story and an attempt to make a joke/pun out of this horrific happening.

    https://ocweekly.com/oc-high-schoolers-sieg-heil-over-swastika-beer-pong/

  50. @Anonymous
    Freewheeling was common on Studebakers and many non Big 3 cars before the war and into the fifties. All two cycle cars-Saabs, DKWs, had it so the engine wouldn't seize because if the engine were being turned with no fuel flow there was no oil either.

    They went to oil injection right before they abandoned two stroke engines. The last two stroker was the Trabant in East Germany.

    Two cycle cars were popular in very cold climates mostly but DKWs were license built in both Argentina and Brazil. They smoked and made a lot of noise but were fast for their displacement and fun to drive for a second or third car.

    Saab had a lifetime warranty on its two strokers for several years in the US and they honored it until sometime in the eighties at which time they finally just offered to buy out and junk them. The four cylinder Ford powered versions are much more common in the US, and they still had free wheeling, at least for a while. Now the two stroke Saabs are collectors items but most interest in them is in very specific areas of the country. You can't give them away elsewhere, but the people who want them will come out and pick them up.

    Nearly 40 years ago I drove a neighbor’s 1968 Saab 96. V4 engine, 4 speed on the column. Free wheeling transmission as you describe. Front wheel drive. It was great in the snow. One of the coolest cars I’ve driven

    The neighbor regrets selling years ago and wants another one. Where can one buy an old Saab cheap?

    Thanks for reminding me of a good memory.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Ebay , craigslist, or Hemmings, or try the Saab Club:

    https://saabclub.com/nines

    If you want a very specific Saab, going to Sweden may be an option too. If it's over 25 years old import is no problem, but you have shipping to consider.

    Interest in really old Saabs tends to be confined, in the US, to some pretty specific geographic areas, so one found in places where no one wants them can be cheap, but.....bring a trailer. They tend to get sold or given away when they don't run. Also when Saab quit the car business, interest in the old ones was reduced.

    Maintaining a two stroke or V4 Saab is going to be a DIY affair unless you live in an area where there are a lot of them. Most shops won't touch them any more. Around where I live you can't get anything with a carburetor worked on unless you get it to a dumpy shop on the outskirts of the metro area. If they can't plug a scan tool into it they don't want to look at it.

    The V4 Ford built engine is still somewhat supported because there were a lot of them in industrial and ag applications but other mechanical hard parts and interior trim, et al, probably are scarce.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Free wheeling transmission as you describe
     
    And four-stroke by then.
  51. @Peterike
    “ it found, to the surprise of just about everyone, that men were paid less money than women for doing similar work.”

    Funny, I’m not surprised in the least.

    Right? They mean “to the surprise of good-thinking people” which is all that matters.

    “despite an avalanche of complaints”

    Can’t we just reward whoever complains the most, and be done with it?

    Until next year, I mean. Can’t see how that could ever go wrong.

  52. @Anonymous
    Freewheeling was common on Studebakers and many non Big 3 cars before the war and into the fifties. All two cycle cars-Saabs, DKWs, had it so the engine wouldn't seize because if the engine were being turned with no fuel flow there was no oil either.

    They went to oil injection right before they abandoned two stroke engines. The last two stroker was the Trabant in East Germany.

    Two cycle cars were popular in very cold climates mostly but DKWs were license built in both Argentina and Brazil. They smoked and made a lot of noise but were fast for their displacement and fun to drive for a second or third car.

    Saab had a lifetime warranty on its two strokers for several years in the US and they honored it until sometime in the eighties at which time they finally just offered to buy out and junk them. The four cylinder Ford powered versions are much more common in the US, and they still had free wheeling, at least for a while. Now the two stroke Saabs are collectors items but most interest in them is in very specific areas of the country. You can't give them away elsewhere, but the people who want them will come out and pick them up.

    Funny, someone just said something about spergs.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Funny, someone just said something about spergs.

     

    Yeah, so?

    Just because I know a lot about Saabs and DKWs, that makes me a sperg. Whatever.
  53. @Anon
    Crazy today, normal tomorrow.

    https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1102207397769199616

    Pre-order my book.

    @TitaniaMcGrath
    Activist. Healer. Radical intersectionalist poet. Selfless and brave. Pre-order my book.

    I’m baffled here and there just how closely knit self-adoration and self-promotion are these days.

    • Replies: @Kaganovitch
    Titiana is an onion like spoof account. It says something that her mockery is almost indistinguishable from actual SJW rhetoric.
  54. @Anonymous

    Nah, what it takes is a bit of anger and a lot of courage.
     
    This.

    Bunch of cowards here on iSteve.

    Anonymous[931] wrote:

    Bunch of cowards here on iSteve.

    So true, so true. I’m not even gonna touch the irony right there.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    That’s good, because there is none.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    I was told one time by a guy 1/2 my age that you need to know how to pick your battles. Achmed E. Newman isn't my real name either. There's a time when you have to decide whether to take a stand or cower under the desk. I respect Mr. Damore very much for taking a stand. If he'd only had a few dozen or a hundred of his fellow geeks standing up for him, none of them would have been fired. There's power in numbers.
  55. @Peripatetic Commenter

    Isn’t he a pitcher?
     
    Why do you assume he's gay?

    You’re thinking of catchers, hoss

  56. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @North Carolina Resident
    Nearly 40 years ago I drove a neighbor's 1968 Saab 96. V4 engine, 4 speed on the column. Free wheeling transmission as you describe. Front wheel drive. It was great in the snow. One of the coolest cars I've driven

    The neighbor regrets selling years ago and wants another one. Where can one buy an old Saab cheap?

    Thanks for reminding me of a good memory.

    Ebay , craigslist, or Hemmings, or try the Saab Club:

    https://saabclub.com/nines

    If you want a very specific Saab, going to Sweden may be an option too. If it’s over 25 years old import is no problem, but you have shipping to consider.

    Interest in really old Saabs tends to be confined, in the US, to some pretty specific geographic areas, so one found in places where no one wants them can be cheap, but…..bring a trailer. They tend to get sold or given away when they don’t run. Also when Saab quit the car business, interest in the old ones was reduced.

    Maintaining a two stroke or V4 Saab is going to be a DIY affair unless you live in an area where there are a lot of them. Most shops won’t touch them any more. Around where I live you can’t get anything with a carburetor worked on unless you get it to a dumpy shop on the outskirts of the metro area. If they can’t plug a scan tool into it they don’t want to look at it.

    The V4 Ford built engine is still somewhat supported because there were a lot of them in industrial and ag applications but other mechanical hard parts and interior trim, et al, probably are scarce.

  57. @Anonymous

    Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right
     
    I don't know a lot about Damore, but I suspect describing him as "spergy" is innacurate and unfair. How about "earnest" or "analytical" or "candid" instead?

    By the way, Damore is a good example of how Hans Christian Andersen was wrong about The Emperor’s New Clothes. Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right, the CEO just fired his ass.

    Ehh – Steve Sailer, if you please: The Emperors New Clothes is a fairy tale. It’s an outstanding and commonly acknowledged*** quality of those to be counterfactual. That’s what makes them interesting – and what helps them survive in the collective mind – – -over centuries, even. Which is a miracle of sorts, isn’t it?

    *** cf. Erich Fromm, Märchen, Mythen Träume (= The forgotten Language – an Introduction into the Understanding of Dreams, Fairy Tales and Myths); Ernst Bloch: The Principle of Hope, Bruno Bettelheim: Kinder brauchen Märchen (Kids need Fairy Tales – don’t know whether this one is translated though).

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, but Dieter, lots of the tales of various sorts ("fairy", "fables", what-have-you) were written to teach lessons to children, along with entertaining them, teaching them reading, and making them sleepy for bed. I'd always thought this one was the same, and the story does indeed work if the people speaking out in front of the all-powerful emperor end up becoming a crowd of a few thousand.

    In batches of 2's or 5's they'll just get their heads chopped off. Bartholomew Cubbins was just damn lucky, come to think of it.
    , @Kaganovitch
    Bruno Bettelheim: Kinder brauchen Märchen (Kids need Fairy Tales – don’t know whether this one is translated though).

    It was published in English in substantially revised form as "The Uses of Enchantment".
  58. “Yesterday, female BBC staff said the verdict flew in the face of their experiences, and had only stoked their anger further.”

    It’s largely top female on-air talent who feel screwed; the reality is that, adjusted for audience size, all BBC on-air talent is highly overpaid.

  59. Anonymous [AKA "Fink"] says:

    Peter Hitchens told a version of The Emperor’s New Clothes where the boy & his father were arrested by the secret police and tortured until they admitted that the Emperor’s clothes looked marvellous.
    Far more realistic.

  60. @Achmed E. Newman
    Nah, what it takes is a bit of anger and a lot of courage. This "on the spectrum" phrase bugs the hell out of me. Who started that crap? My Mom takes Spectrum vitamins - is she on the spectrum? WTF?

    “On the spectrum” means you can legally buy speed, aka Adderall.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I'm pretty sure, R.F., she just gets the vitamins. Hell, now you've got me thinking - she has been pretty spry lately.
  61. @jimmyriddle
    Exactly the same thing happened at the BBC

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5332355/BBC-hands-pay-rises-men-women.html

    Of course, this idea that society is biased against women is pure feminist nonsense. It’s as wrong as wrong can be — in reality society is very much biased in favor of women.

    • Agree: jim jones
  62. @Dr. X

    A survey of employee salaries at Google reached a surprising conclusion: More men than women were being underpaid.
     
    It's not surprising at all. This is pervasive across the broader economy. Women are given affirmative action jobs in government and education, where they make stupid money with benefits, stability, and lots of time off, while men are competing for $12-15 an hour temporary trucking and roofing jobs.

    I saw a bunch of guys the other day framing up a big two-story house in 19 degree weather, climbing through rafters in the snow thirty feet up. All white men, not a woman among them. The trucks and cars they were driving were old beat to shit junkers. Women were driving past in new Lexuses and Nissan Maximas on their way to "work" jabbing at cell phones with acrylic nails and sipping coffee.

    Women are given affirmative action jobs in government and education

    It’s not just affirmative action, though. People in general prefer women to men, all things being equal. It’s called “women are wonderful” bias and it’s been scientifically documented.

  63. @Mr McKenna
    Anonymous[931] wrote:

    Bunch of cowards here on iSteve.
     
    So true, so true. I'm not even gonna touch the irony right there.

    That’s good, because there is none.

  64. @Redneck farmer
    "On the spectrum" means you can legally buy speed, aka Adderall.

    I’m pretty sure, R.F., she just gets the vitamins. Hell, now you’ve got me thinking – she has been pretty spry lately.

  65. @Mr McKenna
    Anonymous[931] wrote:

    Bunch of cowards here on iSteve.
     
    So true, so true. I'm not even gonna touch the irony right there.

    I was told one time by a guy 1/2 my age that you need to know how to pick your battles. Achmed E. Newman isn’t my real name either. There’s a time when you have to decide whether to take a stand or cower under the desk. I respect Mr. Damore very much for taking a stand. If he’d only had a few dozen or a hundred of his fellow geeks standing up for him, none of them would have been fired. There’s power in numbers.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    To be fair to the Damore critics, if you’d asked him before publishing his memo what he imagined the results would be you can be pretty sure his answer would bear no resemblance whatsoever to the what they actually were.

    So while that’s not a moral failing per se, it’s not the ideal of manliness (which includes as element of hard-won worldliness) either.
  66. @Dieter Kief

    By the way, Damore is a good example of how Hans Christian Andersen was wrong about The Emperor’s New Clothes. Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right, the CEO just fired his ass.
     
    Ehh - Steve Sailer, if you please: The Emperors New Clothes is a fairy tale. It's an outstanding and commonly acknowledged*** quality of those to be counterfactual. That's what makes them interesting - and what helps them survive in the collective mind - - -over centuries, even. Which is a miracle of sorts, isn't it?

    *** cf. Erich Fromm, Märchen, Mythen Träume (= The forgotten Language - an Introduction into the Understanding of Dreams, Fairy Tales and Myths); Ernst Bloch: The Principle of Hope, Bruno Bettelheim: Kinder brauchen Märchen (Kids need Fairy Tales - don't know whether this one is translated though).

    Yeah, but Dieter, lots of the tales of various sorts (“fairy”, “fables”, what-have-you) were written to teach lessons to children, along with entertaining them, teaching them reading, and making them sleepy for bed. I’d always thought this one was the same, and the story does indeed work if the people speaking out in front of the all-powerful emperor end up becoming a crowd of a few thousand.

    In batches of 2’s or 5’s they’ll just get their heads chopped off. Bartholomew Cubbins was just damn lucky, come to think of it.

  67. @J.Ross
    This. Our tradition is equality, not in nature (where there is no equality), but in the application of the law. Murder is wrong when you do it or when I do it; that's legal equality. Equity is jive they made up and as legitimate as if I started invoking the Constitution to justify monarchy.

    The left doesn’t even pretend to be in favor of equality because it allows for differences in outcomes – equity is the new concept and it demands the same outcomes regardless of talent or effort. It’s a totalitarian concept at its core, and if we had a functioning media in this country, they would be interrogating the politicians and academics on the left who are pushing this idea so the public could judge whether it’s something they want to live with.

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @Gordo

    The left doesn’t even pretend to be in favor of equality because it allows for differences in outcomes
     
    The left loves differences of outcome, as long as they control them.
    , @J.Ross
    Yes, the real basis of the "division" blamed on Trump is that the left is not a group of Americans with a diverging interpretation of the Constitution like one would assume, they're ideologically hostile aliens seeking to impose a totally new system.
  68. @Anon
    I've been following the wage gap controversy for a while. I got interested when I went down a rabbit hole trying to track down the source and methodology used in coming up with a particular percentage figure that was commonly used in the UK by television presenters to quantify pay inequity.

    What I learned after chasing it down from site to site to its ultimate source was that it was, literally, the percentage difference between the amount of wages paid to men per capita divided by that paid to women per capita, in the UK.

    There was no attempt whatsoever to make an apples to apples comparison by job type, responsibility level, supervisor or 360 job competency ratings, educational level, years of experience, nothing.

    What Google is doing, and what the BBC did in their audit, is to attempt to come up with an apples to apples number, at least in terms of intra-company job category (I'm not sure if they go beyond that to experience or work product quality: probably not at this stage, althogh Google is geeky enough to try it).

    If you have been keeping up with this, however, the other side has long telegraphed their next moves:

    1. First up will be claims that women aren't hired for the top jobs because of of structural discrimination. Structural discrimination is like racism in that the less there is as time goes on, the more hysterical people are about seeking it out. Structural discrimination will be said to be things like having jobs that coop you up in a room by yourself for long periods of time, a culture of overtime, a hostile environment for menstruation time off, and finally stuff like child care and leaves and sabaticals relating to children, which directly leads to the cutting edge being discussed in places like Denmark ...

    2. Recent studies are starting to show that almost all lf the wage gap is because women are more likely to bail out of careers to stay home with kids, and then 15 or 20 years later try to reenter the job market and find that, surprise surprise, the guys (and women) who didn't take a break like that are earning more than them. This seems like common sense and more feature than bug, but no, say the radical feminists. Nations should dictate equal lifetime compensation in some way.

    What this way is, has been left a little vague. As I understand it, it goes beyond paying women at the same annual salary when they reenter as the people who stuck it out are getting, even though they have a couple of decades more experience. No, this is not enough: somehow women need to be compensated at the same rate that their colleagues are being compensated at their original companies, even though women who are caring for children are no longer in the workforce.

    I'm guessing that this will materialize in the form of a payment from companies, perhaps partially subsidized by taxpayers, to any woman who quits to care for children, which will rise annually with raises, keeping up with what she would have made in the company. Will men who quit to raise children be eligible for this payment? Can a couple both quit to raise children and both get paid? Look forward to a severe rise in helicopter parenting until the whole system finally comes crashing down from bankruptcy and migrant inflow.

    Finally, something to look forward to.

  69. would be interesting to keep track where Damore is now. And know what he was being paid by Google when fired. Pay for skilled programmers is skyrocketing. Recently was told of a 27 yo taking a programming job paying $400K in salary and stock options.

  70. @Dieter Kief
    Pre-order my book.


    @TitaniaMcGrath
    Activist. Healer. Radical intersectionalist poet. Selfless and brave. Pre-order my book.

    I'm baffled here and there just how closely knit self-adoration and self-promotion are these days.

    Titiana is an onion like spoof account. It says something that her mockery is almost indistinguishable from actual SJW rhetoric.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    Interesting, thanks. - Even more interesting now, in this new light. - Since it's so rare these days, to find good satire. This then looks like it! - The zeitgeist, grabbing for the ever so self-obsessed sweet spot.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    The fact that her mockery is virtually indistinguishable from actual SJW rhetoric apparently makes it impossible for Twitter to deplatform her. If they do that to her, don't they have to do it to every other crazy SJW? How would they draw that line?
  71. Do men and women need the same things from their workplaces?

    Women want a nice work environment, pleasant and supportive coworkers, plenty of time off, and, oh yeah, the money.

    Men want the money.

    When the girlfriend has a bad day and starts to list the slights, real and imagined, that she suffered at the hands of her coworkers (all women) and patients, I often interject “First World Women Problems!” to shut her up. I usually then point out that a man earning her salary would hit his knees to thank God every single night.

    Others’ mileage may vary, but after 35 years in the workplace, I’ve yet to work with a woman who brought more value to the company than she cost.

    • Replies: @Logan
    FWIW, our office manager absolutely qualifies. After dealing with half a dozen other women over that many years who did not, the difference is blindingly obvious.
  72. @Dieter Kief

    By the way, Damore is a good example of how Hans Christian Andersen was wrong about The Emperor’s New Clothes. Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right, the CEO just fired his ass.
     
    Ehh - Steve Sailer, if you please: The Emperors New Clothes is a fairy tale. It's an outstanding and commonly acknowledged*** quality of those to be counterfactual. That's what makes them interesting - and what helps them survive in the collective mind - - -over centuries, even. Which is a miracle of sorts, isn't it?

    *** cf. Erich Fromm, Märchen, Mythen Träume (= The forgotten Language - an Introduction into the Understanding of Dreams, Fairy Tales and Myths); Ernst Bloch: The Principle of Hope, Bruno Bettelheim: Kinder brauchen Märchen (Kids need Fairy Tales - don't know whether this one is translated though).

    Bruno Bettelheim: Kinder brauchen Märchen (Kids need Fairy Tales – don’t know whether this one is translated though).

    It was published in English in substantially revised form as “The Uses of Enchantment”.

  73. @Arclight
    The left doesn't even pretend to be in favor of equality because it allows for differences in outcomes - equity is the new concept and it demands the same outcomes regardless of talent or effort. It's a totalitarian concept at its core, and if we had a functioning media in this country, they would be interrogating the politicians and academics on the left who are pushing this idea so the public could judge whether it's something they want to live with.

    The left doesn’t even pretend to be in favor of equality because it allows for differences in outcomes

    The left loves differences of outcome, as long as they control them.

  74. @Achmed E. Newman
    Nah, what it takes is a bit of anger and a lot of courage. This "on the spectrum" phrase bugs the hell out of me. Who started that crap? My Mom takes Spectrum vitamins - is she on the spectrum? WTF?

    Tech ‘sperginess was a staple of Douglas Coupland’s technology-industry novels, especially Microserfs (1995) and JPod (2005), along with just about any Neal Stephenson novel.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I've read only one (though you guys here have convinced me to read a few more, time permitting) of Stephenson's books. It's been a long time, but in Cryptomonicron (spelling?), I don't recall the tech nerds being seen as having a psychological problem. I don't recall the term "sperge" in the either, but, again, it's been a while. "On the Spectrum?" - psshaaaw!. It just sounds stupid.
  75. @Brutusale
    Tech 'sperginess was a staple of Douglas Coupland's technology-industry novels, especially Microserfs (1995) and JPod (2005), along with just about any Neal Stephenson novel.

    I’ve read only one (though you guys here have convinced me to read a few more, time permitting) of Stephenson’s books. It’s been a long time, but in Cryptomonicron (spelling?), I don’t recall the tech nerds being seen as having a psychological problem. I don’t recall the term “sperge” in the either, but, again, it’s been a while. “On the Spectrum?” – psshaaaw!. It just sounds stupid.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Revisit the part of Cryptonomicon where Randy Waterhouse pulls an upset Eberhard Fohr out of a corporate meeting to explain why antisocial loner hackers like them need people like Avi and Beryl to deal with people so they can continue to hack undisturbed.

    Coupland is more overt on the subject. In JPod, one of the coders invents a hugging machine for her coworkers "after researching how autistic people enjoy the sensation of pressure from non-living things on their skin".

  76. @Dr. X

    A survey of employee salaries at Google reached a surprising conclusion: More men than women were being underpaid.
     
    It's not surprising at all. This is pervasive across the broader economy. Women are given affirmative action jobs in government and education, where they make stupid money with benefits, stability, and lots of time off, while men are competing for $12-15 an hour temporary trucking and roofing jobs.

    I saw a bunch of guys the other day framing up a big two-story house in 19 degree weather, climbing through rafters in the snow thirty feet up. All white men, not a woman among them. The trucks and cars they were driving were old beat to shit junkers. Women were driving past in new Lexuses and Nissan Maximas on their way to "work" jabbing at cell phones with acrylic nails and sipping coffee.

    Corporate “Show and Tell” … Work-Life Balance

    I’ve known and worked with a number of women on “Lifestyle” tracks in aerospace firms. My daughter-in-law is currently one at Google. I’m wondering if the turbulence associated with trying to fold “Lifestyle” options into a competitive workflow is causing many women to feel discrimination in their “lived experiences”. Background below:

    [MORE]

    One of the latest turbs in corporate behavior is to show corporations are “women-friendly” by offering career tracks called “Lifestyle” tracks”. The “Lifestyle” tracks are allegedly offered to everyone … but only women, it seems, dare take them. They are tailor-made for working moms.

    “Lifestyle” track employees are offered flexible schedules to provide a meaningful work-life balance. The understanding is that they can take time to take kids to school and pick them up, attend school plays, take kids to the doctor, stay home when the kids are sick, and stay home on “snow days” when school is out, etc. They are supposed to make up hours to cover time off … but they quickly notice that no one notices. As company policies, the “Lifestyle” track employees are promised there will be no recrimination when it comes to raises and promotions.

    Not surprisingly, however, this is not how things turn out. These cozy, high-paying jobs are fun while they last, but when a corporate crunch comes, managers are aware of who is on them from experience, vetting, or reputation. Managers won’t touch them. They eventually find themselves shunted off to “Never-Never Land” as they are passed over for promotions and raises. Lateral moves to new companies are practically impossible for the same reasons.

    The “lifestyle” track employees eventually notice their careers have stalled. They feel cheated; they often grow bitter. The corporations, however, keep them on as “carrying costs” associated with advertising themselves as being “women-friendly” places to work.

  77. James Damore… argued that biological differences and not a lack of opportunity explained the shortage of women in upper-tier positions.

    Actually, he said no such thing. He said it is a multi-variant problem, one of which is likely bias, while others may include differences in aptitude and interest between the sexes.

    But those who fired him insisted that consideration of any possible partial explanation other than bias was verboten.

  78. @Brutusale
    Do men and women need the same things from their workplaces?

    Women want a nice work environment, pleasant and supportive coworkers, plenty of time off, and, oh yeah, the money.

    Men want the money.

    When the girlfriend has a bad day and starts to list the slights, real and imagined, that she suffered at the hands of her coworkers (all women) and patients, I often interject "First World Women Problems!" to shut her up. I usually then point out that a man earning her salary would hit his knees to thank God every single night.

    Others' mileage may vary, but after 35 years in the workplace, I've yet to work with a woman who brought more value to the company than she cost.

    FWIW, our office manager absolutely qualifies. After dealing with half a dozen other women over that many years who did not, the difference is blindingly obvious.

  79. @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well. There are some things you do not say at work about your employer who pays you > 100,000 K per annum who can fire you because he does not like the color of your shoelaces and it won't bother him a bit. That he worked there means is not stupid.

    (You may think they made a mistake firing him but the guy who fired him is still there and I am pretty sure he thinks it was the right call.)

    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well.

    Pathetic.

    Maybe the guy is interested in something, cares about something, beyond rubbing two coins together.

    We need more such “not well” people, and fewer “how many coins can i get bending over for the global cosmopolitans” people.

    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    I'll add, that outside of Steve, Damore has probably--in his own earnest, trying-to-make-sense, way--done more to save the West\civilization than anymore scribbling here in these threads.

    Normal people know men and women are different. But constantly bombarded with "sexism" and "discrimination" nonsense, a lot of them--mostly women but plenty of men as well (especially those without sons)--may nod along and believe "there is a problem".

    But when Damore writes essentially "there are more men employed in tech because men and women are interested in different things" and gets fired--basically because one of the "special people" females has a big hissy--then a few more normies get clued in that the real problem is the looniness and hostility to reality and common sense of our masters.

    More people "woke" to the reality of hostile, looney elites and the horror show they are inflicting on us is what we need. Damore took a career hit, but in the process woke a few more people up.
  80. @J.Ross
    I mentioned this earlier but I shared a meal with some boomers, all highly intelligent, highly qualified people, in professions that do not gladly suffer fools, and none of them had any idea what's been happening lately. They thought it was 1989 or something. One of their circle happened to not be present, and they observed that he apparently was a more right-leaning guy, and they were chalking it up to brittle, hysterical over-sensitivity on his part.

    The Boomer disconnect is breathtaking. As long as their assets continue to rise in value, they couldn’t care less.

    • Agree: nebulafox
    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency

    The Boomer disconnect is breathtaking. As long as their assets continue to rise in value, they couldn’t care less.
     
    You're looking at survivor bias. Boomers who acted that way didn't get purged.

    Counterinsurgency
  81. @joe_mama
    I work in tech. At my last company, my boss (who had a good number of reports under him) terminated a gal, and she complained to HR that it was due to sexism. An investigation was launched, and sure enough - it came out that the gals were actually being paid more on average than the guys were.

    Anyone in a major corporate setting knows this is 100% true. Women are routinely promoted beyond their capabilities, get away with little or no work ownership or responsibility, can never be criticized, and cause all kinds if social discord among lower caste employees, both men and women.

    The goal of all of this, as Steve alludes to, is not pay equality but extra pay to women just for being women. That’s why you see the ridiculous salary grade differences for a man and a woman who perform almost the same job, and the waves of made up, HR type jobs with zero responsibilities.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    The goal isn't anything to do with women in the first place, the goal is to maximize pressure on men, which is why white women are not protected when male immigrants become available. The male employee must be squeezed as tightly as possible from as many angles as possible. The women are just being used, like H1-B's that get cut off and abruptly thrown back to India.
  82. @Anon
    Crazy today, normal tomorrow.

    https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1102207397769199616

    Just when you think peak crazy has been reached. Then I see two articles in The NY Times that seem equally nuts. From the prospective of a traditional conservative woman they are gonna have to f**k themselves because no one else will want to.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/30/movies/women-in-movies.html

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/12/21/style/jen-gunter-says-your-vagina-is-terrific.amp.html

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Brie Larson, star of an upcoming superhero flick, commissioned an actual academic study into the race and gender of movie critics, and cited it to dismiss rejection of her movie; but the movie review site she bemoans (Rotten Tomatoes) is infamously curated, and its academically verified white and male critics gave her vehicle high marks.
    I'm guessing the "study" depended on an hour of looking people up on LinkedIn but I would take that money in a heartbeat.
  83. @Kaganovitch
    Titiana is an onion like spoof account. It says something that her mockery is almost indistinguishable from actual SJW rhetoric.

    Interesting, thanks. – Even more interesting now, in this new light. – Since it’s so rare these days, to find good satire. This then looks like it! – The zeitgeist, grabbing for the ever so self-obsessed sweet spot.

  84. @North Carolina Resident
    Nearly 40 years ago I drove a neighbor's 1968 Saab 96. V4 engine, 4 speed on the column. Free wheeling transmission as you describe. Front wheel drive. It was great in the snow. One of the coolest cars I've driven

    The neighbor regrets selling years ago and wants another one. Where can one buy an old Saab cheap?

    Thanks for reminding me of a good memory.

    Free wheeling transmission as you describe

    And four-stroke by then.

  85. @Anonymous
    Freewheeling was common on Studebakers and many non Big 3 cars before the war and into the fifties. All two cycle cars-Saabs, DKWs, had it so the engine wouldn't seize because if the engine were being turned with no fuel flow there was no oil either.

    They went to oil injection right before they abandoned two stroke engines. The last two stroker was the Trabant in East Germany.

    Two cycle cars were popular in very cold climates mostly but DKWs were license built in both Argentina and Brazil. They smoked and made a lot of noise but were fast for their displacement and fun to drive for a second or third car.

    Saab had a lifetime warranty on its two strokers for several years in the US and they honored it until sometime in the eighties at which time they finally just offered to buy out and junk them. The four cylinder Ford powered versions are much more common in the US, and they still had free wheeling, at least for a while. Now the two stroke Saabs are collectors items but most interest in them is in very specific areas of the country. You can't give them away elsewhere, but the people who want them will come out and pick them up.

    Saab didn’t abandon freewheeling until ’72 or ’73, so there is an “Overton window” of a few years of freewheeling four strokes. Those may be particularly sought by enthusiasts. I know that’s what I’d want.

  86. @AnotherDad

    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well.
     
    Pathetic.

    Maybe the guy is interested in something, cares about something, beyond rubbing two coins together.

    We need more such "not well" people, and fewer "how many coins can i get bending over for the global cosmopolitans" people.

    I’ll add, that outside of Steve, Damore has probably–in his own earnest, trying-to-make-sense, way–done more to save the West\civilization than anymore scribbling here in these threads.

    Normal people know men and women are different. But constantly bombarded with “sexism” and “discrimination” nonsense, a lot of them–mostly women but plenty of men as well (especially those without sons)–may nod along and believe “there is a problem”.

    But when Damore writes essentially “there are more men employed in tech because men and women are interested in different things” and gets fired–basically because one of the “special people” females has a big hissy–then a few more normies get clued in that the real problem is the looniness and hostility to reality and common sense of our masters.

    More people “woke” to the reality of hostile, looney elites and the horror show they are inflicting on us is what we need. Damore took a career hit, but in the process woke a few more people up.

    • Agree: Desiderius
  87. @MichiganMom
    Just when you think peak crazy has been reached. Then I see two articles in The NY Times that seem equally nuts. From the prospective of a traditional conservative woman they are gonna have to f**k themselves because no one else will want to.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/30/movies/women-in-movies.html

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/12/21/style/jen-gunter-says-your-vagina-is-terrific.amp.html

    Brie Larson, star of an upcoming superhero flick, commissioned an actual academic study into the race and gender of movie critics, and cited it to dismiss rejection of her movie; but the movie review site she bemoans (Rotten Tomatoes) is infamously curated, and its academically verified white and male critics gave her vehicle high marks.
    I’m guessing the “study” depended on an hour of looking people up on LinkedIn but I would take that money in a heartbeat.

  88. @Anonymous

    Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right
     
    I don't know a lot about Damore, but I suspect describing him as "spergy" is innacurate and unfair. How about "earnest" or "analytical" or "candid" instead?

    Unlikely it’s inaccurate (spergeness correlates with those qualities) and only unfair if one harbors one’s own anti- sperg prejudice.

    Signal your weak virtue elsewhere.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Unlikely it’s inaccurate (spergeness correlates with those qualities) and only unfair if one harbors one’s own anti- sperg prejudice.
     
    You graduated from an institution of higher learning? Your degree must have been in engineering or something lacking finesse and interpretive skill. Although your comment shows poor probabilistic and reasoning skills as well.

    So most people of courage and conviction are "spergs", eh? I doubt it, but that's your claim.

    And it is indeed an unfair description, because it is a pejorative in the parlance of our times, no matter what my own prejudices may be.
  89. @Bleuteaux
    Anyone in a major corporate setting knows this is 100% true. Women are routinely promoted beyond their capabilities, get away with little or no work ownership or responsibility, can never be criticized, and cause all kinds if social discord among lower caste employees, both men and women.

    The goal of all of this, as Steve alludes to, is not pay equality but extra pay to women just for being women. That's why you see the ridiculous salary grade differences for a man and a woman who perform almost the same job, and the waves of made up, HR type jobs with zero responsibilities.

    The goal isn’t anything to do with women in the first place, the goal is to maximize pressure on men, which is why white women are not protected when male immigrants become available. The male employee must be squeezed as tightly as possible from as many angles as possible. The women are just being used, like H1-B’s that get cut off and abruptly thrown back to India.

  90. @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well. There are some things you do not say at work about your employer who pays you > 100,000 K per annum who can fire you because he does not like the color of your shoelaces and it won't bother him a bit. That he worked there means is not stupid.

    (You may think they made a mistake firing him but the guy who fired him is still there and I am pretty sure he thinks it was the right call.)

    This sort of arrogant cowardice masquerading as worldly sophistication is how we got in this mess.

    Your evident ideal is grossly unmanly.

    • Agree: AndrewR
  91. About the Emperor’s New Clothes, seeing through the Narrative about Silicon Valley pay discrimination isn’t like seeing through the Emperor’s non-existent new outfit. Because anyone can see that the Emperor is naked. It’s so obvious you’d have to be blind, hallucinating, or otherwise psychologically impaired not to Notice.

    Plenty of people haven’t Noticed who’s discriminating against whom, and why.

    As for Speaking Truth to Power, remember that the real power, the Emperor, is being conned by the tailors. The kid (naive, not spergy so far as I know) is helping power with truth.

  92. @Achmed E. Newman
    I was told one time by a guy 1/2 my age that you need to know how to pick your battles. Achmed E. Newman isn't my real name either. There's a time when you have to decide whether to take a stand or cower under the desk. I respect Mr. Damore very much for taking a stand. If he'd only had a few dozen or a hundred of his fellow geeks standing up for him, none of them would have been fired. There's power in numbers.

    To be fair to the Damore critics, if you’d asked him before publishing his memo what he imagined the results would be you can be pretty sure his answer would bear no resemblance whatsoever to the what they actually were.

    So while that’s not a moral failing per se, it’s not the ideal of manliness (which includes as element of hard-won worldliness) either.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    ... if you’d asked him before publishing his memo what he imagined the results would be you can be pretty sure his answer would bear no resemblance whatsoever to the what they actually were.
     
    Perhaps Mr. Damore had in his mind that lots of people would be very forthcoming to chime in to back him up. I can't say that I'd been able to foresee what happened either.

    Or, he had the mindset of "f__k it, the truth is the truth", which is more of what we need, and pretty manly indeed.
  93. >There are 50% more male news presenters at Corporation than female hosts

    Much more dramatic than saying 60-40.

  94. @Anon
    Crazy today, normal tomorrow.

    https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1102207397769199616

    I wonder where Godfrey Elfwick went?

  95. @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well. There are some things you do not say at work about your employer who pays you > 100,000 K per annum who can fire you because he does not like the color of your shoelaces and it won't bother him a bit. That he worked there means is not stupid.

    (You may think they made a mistake firing him but the guy who fired him is still there and I am pretty sure he thinks it was the right call.)

    Damore’s real crime was mansplaining the issue. But he obviously thought he was working at truth-oriented engineering company when he really was at catty backstabbing martinet company. That was a mistake.

  96. @Arclight
    Any time someone uses the term "equity" it means they are demanding the target audience's total capitulation to their preferred narrative of how the world supposedly is and ought to be - and even that won't stop the flogging.

    All we want is equity of outcome. Which means regardless of the situation, we get to have it better than you.

  97. @Anonymous

    Instead of the whole world realizing that the spergy young truthteller is right
     
    I don't know a lot about Damore, but I suspect describing him as "spergy" is innacurate and unfair. How about "earnest" or "analytical" or "candid" instead?

    I suspect describing him as “spergy” is innacurate and unfair. How about “earnest” or “analytical” or “candid” instead?

    Well — it’s like this —
    T. Carlson [1] has pointed out that the US dominant class is selected first by social class, then by competitive examination (essentially for IQ and diligence). Social class determines the sort of job you might have, competitive examination weeds out the real incompetents. HBD says that IQ is largely hereditary, so those who are selected for in this system will tend to be the descendants of those who _have done_ well – a hereditary class, with some constraints.
    What Carlson _doesn’t_ say is that the system selects people with an IQ somewhere between 100 and 115, maybe 120 sometimes. Carlson strongly implies it in his biography of Chelsea Clinton, but doesn’t explicitly say so.

    Fact is, 110 to 115 (or even 120) just isn’t that bright. People in this range can make decisions within well defined fields, but generally can’t extend the field. They do their jobs well, but can’t define their jobs. That’s one reason why successors of founders (corporate or political regime) generally freeze the form of the organizations whose founding they supported, and quite often can’t so much as use the forms defined by the organization’s founders. This is obvious in the case of corporations, and perhaps more so in politics. H. Clinton couldn’t make B. Clinton’s political organization produce results. Napoleon’s Marshals couldn’t win when assigned command of units that had won for Napoleon (and, in fact, you could say that all of France has never quite made its semi-Napoleonic system produce results anything like those of Napoleon).

    So: what do these selected for 110-115 people do? To refer to Whyte [2], management concentrates on morale issues, and relies on the “captive screwball” for the hard thought. Whyte was contemptuous of this approach, which he thought would fail, but nevertheless described it well. The mainline executives really did, to be blunt, dehumanize the people outside their 110-115 range.

    And they are still doing it, only now the term is “spergy”, meaning, roughly, “he’s more than 20 points IQ above me, and we don’t have any common abstractions (or more than 15 and, we don’t have many common abstractions).

    The problem is worse now than it was in Whyte’s time (and it was bad then — the corporations Whyte worked with are all dead or dying, “captive screwball” didn’t work). It is worse because software and high tech eats up people. Throughout my career, I’ve found technical people being destroyed by their jobs, just like coal miners used to be. Quite often, they never have a family, no kids, which means that high IQ plus persistence doesn’t favor reproductive fitness these days [3], perhaps even in the 110-115 range.

    And, to avoid realizing that, the people involved are referred to as non-humans [4]. Of course, a second result of this linguistic convention is to convince the half-bright that they are the pinnacle of human existence. Which, as Carlson points out, is what they do think [1].

    Counterinsurgency

    1] T. Carlson.
    _Ship of Fools: How a Selfish Ruling Class Is Bringing America to the Brink of Revolution_
    Simon and Schuster, 02/10/2018.

    2] chttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Organization_Man

    3] Usual measure of reproductive fitness is the “grandchildren” test — how many grandchildren did the couple produce?

    4] Consider “male” and “female” in security force communications. Ever wonder what the Hell they are? I mean, “male” is obviously not a human. If it were, then the word would be “Man” or “Boy”. Same with “female”. Clearly non-human, or “Woman” / “Girl” would be used. By the same token, they aren’t multi-cellular organisms (not “male dog” or “female tree”, because “male” and “female” are adjectives, not nouns). So what the heck are they?
    Could it be that “male” and “female” are political speech inserted into security force communications? And that the true purpose is to hide the fact that the communications are about men, women, boys, girls, children, even from the people making the communications?
    http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit

  98. @Achmed E. Newman
    Nah, what it takes is a bit of anger and a lot of courage. This "on the spectrum" phrase bugs the hell out of me. Who started that crap? My Mom takes Spectrum vitamins - is she on the spectrum? WTF?

    As I recall, it was the “American Psychiatric Association”, APA, that started the “on the spectrum” business. They did the seemingly reasonable: said that mental disease is not binary, in the sense of “on/off”. It is more or less severe. The APA has an insatiable desire for money, hence patients. The amazing thing to me is that a discipline whose basic assumptions have been falsified by contemporary neuroscience, and that has produced such disasters as the street people (“homeless”) should continue to exist, but omit that for the present. I suspect it is for the same reason we have police and butchers.

    In the “on the spectrum” affair, API said that, since autism is a lot like intelligence (idiot savants sometimes have autism), it followed that intelligent people had autism. It was a major boon to the half bright.

    Counterinsurgency

  99. @J.Ross
    I mentioned this earlier but I shared a meal with some boomers, all highly intelligent, highly qualified people, in professions that do not gladly suffer fools, and none of them had any idea what's been happening lately. They thought it was 1989 or something. One of their circle happened to not be present, and they observed that he apparently was a more right-leaning guy, and they were chalking it up to brittle, hysterical over-sensitivity on his part.

    I mentioned this earlier but I shared a meal with some boomers, all highly intelligent, highly qualified people, in professions that do not gladly suffer fools, and none of them had any idea what’s been happening lately. They thought it was 1989 or something.

    Just how clueless were they? What did you mention that they were unaware of?

    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    They're not getting the Damore thing. Any employer would always fire you for making problems, that's the frame they're still working with, but they don't get that now you are fired for wrongthink which for most of their lives would never be a problem, let alone grounds for termination. The idea that the left recently moved the goalpost way the hell over and things are materially and practically different isn't accepted. They were totally unaware of the wave of leftist violence (reasonable if they're depending on mainstream news) and of the complete unwillingness of the justice department to deal with it. Like I said, they think it's 1989. As a result of this basic ignorance, nothing a right wing person does or says makes any sense to them.
  100. Or what my employer does – pay women and men exactly the same for the same job title, then just require much less performance from the women. So, for women, it’s equal pay for significantly less work.

  101. @Bleuteaux
    The Boomer disconnect is breathtaking. As long as their assets continue to rise in value, they couldn't care less.

    The Boomer disconnect is breathtaking. As long as their assets continue to rise in value, they couldn’t care less.

    You’re looking at survivor bias. Boomers who acted that way didn’t get purged.

    Counterinsurgency

  102. @Desiderius
    To be fair to the Damore critics, if you’d asked him before publishing his memo what he imagined the results would be you can be pretty sure his answer would bear no resemblance whatsoever to the what they actually were.

    So while that’s not a moral failing per se, it’s not the ideal of manliness (which includes as element of hard-won worldliness) either.

    … if you’d asked him before publishing his memo what he imagined the results would be you can be pretty sure his answer would bear no resemblance whatsoever to the what they actually were.

    Perhaps Mr. Damore had in his mind that lots of people would be very forthcoming to chime in to back him up. I can’t say that I’d been able to foresee what happened either.

    Or, he had the mindset of “f__k it, the truth is the truth”, which is more of what we need, and pretty manly indeed.

  103. @Anonymous

    Moral courage = “not well:” the conservative mentality in a nutshell.
     
    One of the late great Bob Whitaker's most important observations was that physical courage and moral courage were both uncommon, but that of the two, moral courage was by far the less common, and to find both in the same individual was and is almost unheard of.

    Men who had won medals in combat stayed mute at the court martial of a fellow serviceman who was in the right, because "they didn't want to endanger their career", even if they were 90 day wonders who had no intention of staying in after the war.

    My own father had considerable physical courage but no moral courage whatsoever in the face of his employers. He knew fraud and embezzlement were going on but he stayed quiescent because he figured the top guy in the office was getting a kickback. Every year at Christmas we got at least a dozen bottles of booze, tickets to Blues and Cardinals games (he'd trade the Cardinals tickets and take us to the Arena/Checkerdome for the Blues games) and gift cards for Stan Musial & Biggie's and Rich & Charlie's, high ticket eateries in St. Louis in the day. I'm sure it wasn't all out of the goodness of the hearts of the vendors sending the stuff.

    ( I did make a friend in maintenance there that got me into World of Wheels shows and the famous Who gig where Big LMM and her Hereford crew (long second 'e') completely upstaged Towser & Co. for free, plus the pizza was very good to my teen palate and Blues games often had spectacular fights on the ice. One of the Blues players was fucking a (married and milfy) woman who lived down the street from me. They moved out when they got divorced and a former Sled Driver and his wife moved in. So this wasn't all bad. )

    I’m relived to see a comment that single-handedly and statospherically displaces my own sometime zany, biography-of-Dr.-Evil tales of weirdness and disjointed adventures, as once gently and humourously pointed out to me by another to whom I owe an apology for not remembering just now.

    Carry the torch high, my friend.

    And tell us more about the scanadlous MILF and the pizza.

  104. @Arclight
    The left doesn't even pretend to be in favor of equality because it allows for differences in outcomes - equity is the new concept and it demands the same outcomes regardless of talent or effort. It's a totalitarian concept at its core, and if we had a functioning media in this country, they would be interrogating the politicians and academics on the left who are pushing this idea so the public could judge whether it's something they want to live with.

    Yes, the real basis of the “division” blamed on Trump is that the left is not a group of Americans with a diverging interpretation of the Constitution like one would assume, they’re ideologically hostile aliens seeking to impose a totally new system.

  105. Anonymous [AKA "Totally not my real name"] says:

    … Google seems to be advancing a “flawed and incomplete sense of equality” by making sure men and women receive similar salaries for similar work, said Joelle Emerson, chief executive of Paradigm, a consulting company that advises companies on strategies for increasing diversity. That is not the same as addressing “equity,” she said, which would involve examining the structural hurdles that women face as engineers. …

    Men paid less; women and minorities hardest hit.

  106. @ben tillman

    I mentioned this earlier but I shared a meal with some boomers, all highly intelligent, highly qualified people, in professions that do not gladly suffer fools, and none of them had any idea what’s been happening lately. They thought it was 1989 or something.
     
    Just how clueless were they? What did you mention that they were unaware of?

    They’re not getting the Damore thing. Any employer would always fire you for making problems, that’s the frame they’re still working with, but they don’t get that now you are fired for wrongthink which for most of their lives would never be a problem, let alone grounds for termination. The idea that the left recently moved the goalpost way the hell over and things are materially and practically different isn’t accepted. They were totally unaware of the wave of leftist violence (reasonable if they’re depending on mainstream news) and of the complete unwillingness of the justice department to deal with it. Like I said, they think it’s 1989. As a result of this basic ignorance, nothing a right wing person does or says makes any sense to them.

  107. @Kaganovitch
    Titiana is an onion like spoof account. It says something that her mockery is almost indistinguishable from actual SJW rhetoric.

    The fact that her mockery is virtually indistinguishable from actual SJW rhetoric apparently makes it impossible for Twitter to deplatform her. If they do that to her, don’t they have to do it to every other crazy SJW? How would they draw that line?

    • Replies: @res
    They are probably frantically waiting for her to step out of character. Just once.
  108. Anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    Unlikely it’s inaccurate (spergeness correlates with those qualities) and only unfair if one harbors one’s own anti- sperg prejudice.

    Signal your weak virtue elsewhere.

    Unlikely it’s inaccurate (spergeness correlates with those qualities) and only unfair if one harbors one’s own anti- sperg prejudice.

    You graduated from an institution of higher learning? Your degree must have been in engineering or something lacking finesse and interpretive skill. Although your comment shows poor probabilistic and reasoning skills as well.

    So most people of courage and conviction are “spergs”, eh? I doubt it, but that’s your claim.

    And it is indeed an unfair description, because it is a pejorative in the parlance of our times, no matter what my own prejudices may be.

  109. Anonymous [AKA "WhiteMaleTechManager"] says:

    The big tech companies that I’ve worked for as an engineering manager pay a significant premium for new female engineers out of college, because diversity. There are just not enough female engineers to go around, and major companies get in bidding wars over them. (The smaller companies that can’t afford to compete with the big ones somehow get by with white and asian guys.) The NYT article mentions that the most recent salary review included new hires, which would expose the starting salary premium given to the new hire females.

    • Replies: @Anon
    The big tech companies that I’ve worked for as an engineering manager pay a significant premium for new female engineers out of college, because diversity. There are just not enough female engineers to go around...

    Or the equivalent - replace the word "female" with the word "black."
  110. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr McKenna
    Funny, someone just said something about spergs.

    Funny, someone just said something about spergs.

    Yeah, so?

    Just because I know a lot about Saabs and DKWs, that makes me a sperg. Whatever.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    No one was ever called spergy for knowing something.
  111. @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    That he wrote the memo means he is either stupid or not well. There are some things you do not say at work about your employer who pays you > 100,000 K per annum who can fire you because he does not like the color of your shoelaces and it won't bother him a bit. That he worked there means is not stupid.

    (You may think they made a mistake firing him but the guy who fired him is still there and I am pretty sure he thinks it was the right call.)

    You’ve never endured a diversity brainwashing session have you? You can’t just sit there and say nothing. You are forced to participate in all sorts of role playing that degradesWhites. The facilitators even monitor facial expressions.

    I never had to write anything. But people are forced to speak and listen. The idea is to break down your biases and prejudices and then you’re born again or something .

    Not going along enthusiastically gets a nasty session with HR and a warning to go along with the latest degrading program.

    From what I remember, participants in that degrading brainwashing session were told to write a memo on why google wasn’t sufficiently diverse and what could be done to make it more diverse.

    So Damore did what he was told. And was fired

    • Replies: @simple_pseudonymic_handle

    You’ve never endured a diversity brainwashing session have you?
     
    I have attended a precise quota of diversity training functions in my years working for a multinational corporation.

    The following may be of interest to you:

    1. I did an independent study of the culture of T-groups, sensitivity training, rap sessions from their beginnings. The industry began in the discipline of Transpersonal Psychology birthed at the Esalen Institute in the 1960's. There were forerunners. The most important were: 1. Fritz Perls, Gestalt Therapy (not Gestalt Psychology which is a different thing); 2. Jacob Moreno, Psychodrama (both Moreno and Perls began in the hay day of Freudian Psychoanalysis which no mainstream modern Psychology textbook considers fundamental); and before that even the Method Acting school of Konstantin Stanislavsky. Konstantin Stanislavsky deserves mention as he might be the only individual in the entire tree who qualifies as an authentic Cultural Marxist. Before he was a psychotherapist, Perls was a theater director; he was the creative force behind the Esalen variation and lived there off and on for several years.

    2. The best critique on the efficacy of this entire school is provided by Irvin Yalom in his comprehensive textbook on Group Psychotherapy. He is a practitioner and concedes that 95% of it all is crap.

    3. When done well, for purpose, it is effective. Even when it is a complete waste of time for the patient it can be a great show for the spectators. This I suspect is why it survives.

    4. Those people running your corporate diversity training are mostly ignorant. They need a job. They took a 6 week "trainer's training" if the HR manager hiring them is lucky. If you think they are some kind of mastermind capable of harming you, do a little research. Ask them about Perls or Moreno or Stanislavski or Yalom and watch their eyes glaze over.

    5. Damore is like Kaepernick, a real-life Howard Beale; he has committed career-suicide and he has accomplished nothing beyond getting himself internet-famous. What a dipshit.

    6. Kind of off topic but T-groups are a great place for shy nerdy guys to meet girls.
  112. A long post-firing profile of James Damore. Despite being published in the Guardian, it’s surprisingly non-screeching.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/16/james-damore-google-memo-interview-autism-regrets

  113. @Harry Baldwin
    The fact that her mockery is virtually indistinguishable from actual SJW rhetoric apparently makes it impossible for Twitter to deplatform her. If they do that to her, don't they have to do it to every other crazy SJW? How would they draw that line?

    They are probably frantically waiting for her to step out of character. Just once.

  114. @Anonymous

    Funny, someone just said something about spergs.

     

    Yeah, so?

    Just because I know a lot about Saabs and DKWs, that makes me a sperg. Whatever.

    No one was ever called spergy for knowing something.

  115. @Anonymous
    The big tech companies that I've worked for as an engineering manager pay a significant premium for new female engineers out of college, because diversity. There are just not enough female engineers to go around, and major companies get in bidding wars over them. (The smaller companies that can't afford to compete with the big ones somehow get by with white and asian guys.) The NYT article mentions that the most recent salary review included new hires, which would expose the starting salary premium given to the new hire females.

    The big tech companies that I’ve worked for as an engineering manager pay a significant premium for new female engineers out of college, because diversity. There are just not enough female engineers to go around…

    Or the equivalent – replace the word “female” with the word “black.”

  116. @Achmed E. Newman
    I've read only one (though you guys here have convinced me to read a few more, time permitting) of Stephenson's books. It's been a long time, but in Cryptomonicron (spelling?), I don't recall the tech nerds being seen as having a psychological problem. I don't recall the term "sperge" in the either, but, again, it's been a while. "On the Spectrum?" - psshaaaw!. It just sounds stupid.

    Revisit the part of Cryptonomicon where Randy Waterhouse pulls an upset Eberhard Fohr out of a corporate meeting to explain why antisocial loner hackers like them need people like Avi and Beryl to deal with people so they can continue to hack undisturbed.

    Coupland is more overt on the subject. In JPod, one of the coders invents a hugging machine for her coworkers “after researching how autistic people enjoy the sensation of pressure from non-living things on their skin”.

  117. @Steve Sailer
    A number of women have done a good job of managing tech companies after their founding, but the number of women who are actual founders is remarkably small. The other Wojcicki sister might be one example.

    A number of women have done a good job of managing tech companies after their founding…

    Really? Like who?

  118. “He argued that biological differences and not a lack of opportunity explained the shortage of women in upper-tier positions.”
    No he didn’t. He argued that you can’t assume that discrimination was the only possible cause govern that men and women have different traits, some of which are biological. How hard is this to get right?

  119. @Alden
    You’ve never endured a diversity brainwashing session have you? You can’t just sit there and say nothing. You are forced to participate in all sorts of role playing that degradesWhites. The facilitators even monitor facial expressions.

    I never had to write anything. But people are forced to speak and listen. The idea is to break down your biases and prejudices and then you’re born again or something .

    Not going along enthusiastically gets a nasty session with HR and a warning to go along with the latest degrading program.

    From what I remember, participants in that degrading brainwashing session were told to write a memo on why google wasn’t sufficiently diverse and what could be done to make it more diverse.

    So Damore did what he was told. And was fired

    You’ve never endured a diversity brainwashing session have you?

    I have attended a precise quota of diversity training functions in my years working for a multinational corporation.

    The following may be of interest to you:

    1. I did an independent study of the culture of T-groups, sensitivity training, rap sessions from their beginnings. The industry began in the discipline of Transpersonal Psychology birthed at the Esalen Institute in the 1960’s. There were forerunners. The most important were: 1. Fritz Perls, Gestalt Therapy (not Gestalt Psychology which is a different thing); 2. Jacob Moreno, Psychodrama (both Moreno and Perls began in the hay day of Freudian Psychoanalysis which no mainstream modern Psychology textbook considers fundamental); and before that even the Method Acting school of Konstantin Stanislavsky. Konstantin Stanislavsky deserves mention as he might be the only individual in the entire tree who qualifies as an authentic Cultural Marxist. Before he was a psychotherapist, Perls was a theater director; he was the creative force behind the Esalen variation and lived there off and on for several years.

    2. The best critique on the efficacy of this entire school is provided by Irvin Yalom in his comprehensive textbook on Group Psychotherapy. He is a practitioner and concedes that 95% of it all is crap.

    3. When done well, for purpose, it is effective. Even when it is a complete waste of time for the patient it can be a great show for the spectators. This I suspect is why it survives.

    4. Those people running your corporate diversity training are mostly ignorant. They need a job. They took a 6 week “trainer’s training” if the HR manager hiring them is lucky. If you think they are some kind of mastermind capable of harming you, do a little research. Ask them about Perls or Moreno or Stanislavski or Yalom and watch their eyes glaze over.

    5. Damore is like Kaepernick, a real-life Howard Beale; he has committed career-suicide and he has accomplished nothing beyond getting himself internet-famous. What a dipshit.

    6. Kind of off topic but T-groups are a great place for shy nerdy guys to meet girls.

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