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NYT Film Critic: "Best Picture" Nominees Are Too White & Male; Sadly, They Are Also Better Than 2019's Less White and Male Movies
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From the New York Times:

Dear Oscars, I Love You. But We Need to Talk.

The Academy Awards have made mistakes before, our critic writes. But this year’s crop of best-picture nominees may be the breaking point.

Best-picture nominees this year include… “1917”; “Ford v Ferrari”; “Jojo Rabbit”; “Joker”; “Once Upon a Time … in Hollywood”; “The Irishman”; and “Marriage Story.”

Plus, “Little Women,” which was ho-hum.

By Wesley Morris
Published Feb. 4, 2020

If something’s not right with the Oscars, what about them is most wrong? The joylessly algebraic nomination process? All those old white voters? That we seriously call September to February awards season, like it’s weather or the flu? Whatever it is, we’re looking at nine best-picture nominees and 19 actors that have got a lot of people rolling their eyes — people like me. And I’m not an eye-roller about these things. I love the Academy Awards.

Why the hell am I like this?

Because you are gay? The Academy Awards are like the Big Gay Super Bowl, so they’ve finally taken my advice and rather than schedule them long after anybody could remember the end-of year releases, they moved the ceremony up in the year to the Sunday after Super Bowl Sunday.

This year the X-ray feels like it was removed from a time capsule. And a little Oscar radiology reveals that eight of the nine movies (minus “Parasite”) are about white people — and, excusing “Little Women,” and Scarlett Johansson in “Marriage Story” notwithstanding, about white men. “Little Women” is the lone nominee that a woman directed.

And rather poorly.

Now here’s an amusing admission from Morris: the White Male nominee movies are pretty good this year, better than the competition:

Why’s race such a factor now? Well, for one thing, when it comes to the Oscars, there is some accounting for taste. And this year, the problem isn’t with the particular remaining movies — “1917,” “Ford v Ferrari,” “The Irishman,” “Jojo Rabbit,” “Joker” and “Once Upon a Time … in Hollywood” — or the white people in them. Not since my wish list and Walkman days, have I despised so few nominees in this category. Most of them I love. As for the one failure, I’ve never worked harder to get with the program. But after four tries, I gave up. This Joker, quite often literally, has no clothes.

Joker is the first billion dollar art house drama in movie history. It’s not for everybody but clearly it’s for a lot of people.

Assembled, these distinct movies become a representative entity, and a person like me notices a theme that could poke out an eye. And whiteness is part of that story. It’s always been, of course. But this year feels different. A homogeneity has set in. The nominated movies start to look like picture day at certain magnet schools. “Jojo Rabbit” is a Hitler Youth comedy! Quentin Tarantino’s “Once Upon a Time …” is a dream about the accidentally heroic pre-emption of racist Charles Manson’s murder plot. And “Little Women” quietly dramatizes the freedom white women experience after the men have left to fight a war; a war to end the enslavement of black people. Sounds a little too ironic, and yet the movie means us to understand the irony. Those white ladies are better off than any black people. They’re just not equal to the women’s enlisted brothers, fathers and beaus.

Uh, aren’t the white women at home in Concord, Massachusetts better off than the white men fighting and dying in the Civil War?

The border between their time and ours has a gusty permeability.

Some of what’s so strong about “The Irishman” and “Once Upon a Time …” comes from how remembered they both feel — rue-soaked in the first movie; heavy with “what if” in the other. At the movies (in the West), the convenient thing about the past is that you can solve the matter of race by pretending it doesn’t exist. Most of these movies, in addition to their thematic rearview, are based in actual history. (“1917” sends two British World War I soldiers on a critical, thrillingly stressful postal mission.) You can’t put nonwhite people in places they weren’t — and when a movie does, you get something mildly anarchic like a biracial Jewish New Zealander having a ball playing Hitler.

Quentin Tarantino’s “Once Upon a Time …” has a great line; as they wait for their car, Brad Pitt tells a weepy Leonardo DiCaprio, “Don’t cry in front of the Mexicans.” Their white American maleness is too mythic and valuable to go around blubbering all over valets. “Joker” is about a comedian, but it doesn’t have Tarantino’s sense of humor about its whiteness. Whiteness here is a tragic, symbolic condition. …

Couldn’t these nine movies just be evidence of taste? Good taste? They certainly could. They are. And yet, after the hash tags and threatened boycotts, after “Hidden Figures,” “Get Out” and “Black Panther” and “BlacKkKlansman”; after “Moonlight” winning over “La La Land”; after no woman being a two-time directing nominee; after the touted diversification campaigns and calls for “inclusion riders” (calls in acceptance speeches!); and in the same year that a popular Latina surprisingly missed the cut and the only black acting nominee is playing a plantation escapee (albeit one of history’s most famous escapees, but still) — the assembly of these movies feels like a body’s allergic reaction to its own efforts at rehabilitation.

In other words, it’s almost as if the most talented figures in the movie business, most of whom are white men such as Quentin Tarantino, have tended to react to The Great Awokening by moving in the opposite direction.

Only two of the nine movies are set in what we’d called the present moment; and one of those (“Parasite”) comes to us from Seoul. Which means, the other seven — six of which are set in the United States — take place in the past. … Out with the new, in with the ancient!

Maybe this is just bad luck. I mean, what could the Academy have done to prevent itself from duplicating schisms beyond the movie theater? National schisms. (Nationalist schisms.) According to all the forecasting, these were the nine most predicted nominees. There’s no shafted movie by or about nonwhite people, despite certain passions for “The Farewell” and “Hustlers” or even mine for “Waves.” …

I can look at these otherwise innocent movies, gathered together, and surmise progress fatigue: We already did that. If Joaquin Phoenix wins the best actor Oscar for “Joker,” he’s likely to remind his fellow industry professionals, as he did last Sunday at the BAFTAs, that their tiredness is not an option, that it’s an embarrassment.

Phoenix’s BAFTA award speech summarized: I got mine! Now, voters, start discriminating harder against younger guys who look like me.

That fatigue starts to mirror life everywhere else, as it used to be and sometimes as it remains. Separate, unequal: You’ve put enough nonwhite people in pop hits that you have to think alternatively. So when the so-called awards season heats up, you can’t find anything serious, nonwhite and good. So come nomination morn, the Oscars suddenly look like evidence of white flight, this reliable suburb of “quality” and “taste” and eligibility. …

Wesley Morris is a critic-at-large. He was awarded the 2012 Pulitzer Prize for his criticism while at the Boston Globe. He has also worked at Grantland, The San Francisco Chronicle and The San Francisco Examiner. @wesley_morris

 
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  1. Why the hell am I like this?
    Because you are gay?

    https://media.tenor.co/images/f4fb064a22fdc500290ba57471ea2860/raw

    —————
    I TOOK IT
    AND THREW IT ON THE GROUND

    • LOL: Tusk
  2. The way these people use “whiteness” is directly analogous to “Jewry” in Nazi propaganda. It is not a quality, but an entity. And it is a bad entity.

  3. Anyone think Joker is the new Fight Club? It’s got that aggrieved-masculine feel to it.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @SFG

    Fight Club was stupid even upon my 2nd viewing. See Movie Review - "Fight Club" still sucks.

    First rule of Fight Club: You do not talk about how bad the movie sucks!

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Morton's toes

    , @Jake
    @SFG

    Fight Club is a gay film made from a gay novel.

  4. This guy is really fatigued. You can tell by the pointless article. Speaking of lots of movies being made about the past, I guess that’s because the Hollywood writers are less creative than in the past. It’s either comic books, action flicks, remakes of 1980s action flicks, Star Wars prequels and sequels, or some type of Hobbit or Harry Potter shit (is Harry Potter in charge of the hobbits? It’s all mixed up to me now.) Another good Angry Birds movie could make up for all that, I guess.

    I will see a few of the movies you’ve recommended from this year, though, Steve … waiting for the library to get em … not a big hurry…

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Achmed E. Newman

    No, it's because we need to unrevisionize the past to get the present back on track. Lot of good work along that line this year with Hollywood, Ferrari, and Jewell. Smacking down 1619 and its promoters hard will also go a long way.

    , @RickinJax
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Harry Potter and Frodo are both illegitimate children of Gandalf.

    , @SunBakedSuburb
    @Achmed E. Newman

    "I guess that's because the Hollywood writers are less creative than in the past."

    The current structure of the film business has shrunk the space between the expensive franchise movies and the low to micro budget independents. It's in the middle space between the two extremes where the creative and original filmmakers can thrive. But, alas.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  5. On the topic of this year’s Oscars, the Academy’s own twitter account posted this image before removing it very quickly.

    I’m not sure if it was an attempt to reflect the betting odds at the time or an attempt to influence them I can’t image they’d post the actual winners like this, but Steve may or may not be happy to see ‘Parasite’ listed for Best Picture overall.

    • Replies: @Altai
    @Altai

    Nevermind, it was apparently the result of an app that gauged social media to produce the results. But they pulled it down when it didn't read the way they thought it would. Still weird there is any talk of Parasite getting best picture. Maybe the previous article describing the love of the elite for Parasite as a kind of Joker from an elite perspective.

  6. Anon[130] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: Just read a new paper about Coronavirus (papers are flying out the window about this disease these days). It claims that Asians and White don’t have any different between the amount of ACE 2 gene expression (which make you vulnerable to the virus) but if you smoke, there is a difference. Smokers develop more ACE 2 gene expression because ACE 2 is involved in repairing your lungs from damage from things like smoking.

    By implication, dirty air performs the same function as smoke. Eastern Chinese should have more ACE 2 gene expression from the smoggy air they breathe. So this is why polluted Eastern China is getting hit hard.

    As I noted before, big coastal US cities with higher air pollution levels are going to be hit too. Smokers worldwide are going to have a very bad time. If you’re going to try to quit or use a patch or whatever, this is the time to do it before the virus comes rolling in.

  7. @Altai
    On the topic of this year's Oscars, the Academy's own twitter account posted this image before removing it very quickly.

    https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Oscar-Predictions.jpg

    I'm not sure if it was an attempt to reflect the betting odds at the time or an attempt to influence them I can't image they'd post the actual winners like this, but Steve may or may not be happy to see 'Parasite' listed for Best Picture overall.

    Replies: @Altai

    Nevermind, it was apparently the result of an app that gauged social media to produce the results. But they pulled it down when it didn’t read the way they thought it would. Still weird there is any talk of Parasite getting best picture. Maybe the previous article describing the love of the elite for Parasite as a kind of Joker from an elite perspective.

  8. @SFG
    Anyone think Joker is the new Fight Club? It's got that aggrieved-masculine feel to it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Jake

    Fight Club was stupid even upon my 2nd viewing. See Movie Review – “Fight Club” still sucks.

    First rule of Fight Club: You do not talk about how bad the movie sucks!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Achmed E. Newman

    FIGHT CLUB is well made but retarded as concept and insane as message.

    Fincher is an ace director and can make a movie look good but cannot redeem worthless material.

    GIRL GONE was certainly watchable(well, once) but what trash.

    SOCIAL NETWORK is a smooth operation but a pack of lies.

    ALIEN3 and ZODIAC are the only two works where the movie idea was worthy of Fincher's talent. (I know I'm in the minority on the ALIEN movie.)

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    , @Morton's toes
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Fight Club was an unbelievably great movie until Meatloaf died and they did the zombie "His name was Robert Paulson" chant. Ninety minutes of great? It was a film event of the Neal Stephenson phenomenon where it's brilliant right up to the point where they needed to write an ending for it.

    Has Palahniuk commented on the ending anywhere? I haven't read the book but it's very well thought of and I presume it has an ending.

  9. Artists often react against the zeitgeist.
    When Nixon walked on the beach in a suit and dress shoes they made Easy Rider.
    Now that we have women CEOs and pro athletes celebrating their faggoty empathy ,directors make movies about race car drivers and macho stunt men. Why the surprise?

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @RickinJax

    Movies are supposed to be about Escapism. So I guess normal people are trying to escape from the annoying nightmare of modern Wokeism.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

  10. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    In other words, it’s almost as if the most talented figures in the movie business, most of whom are white men such as Quentin Tarantino, have tended to react to The Great Awokening by moving in the opposite direction.

    But what if the Manson Minions are meant to be the envious and resentful Deplorables? The movie is about rooting for Hollywood Rich against the have-nots, the ‘white trash’ of society.
    The class angle in ONCE HOLLYWOOD seems to be more in favor of the haves than have-nots, which is different from PARASITE.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Anonymous

    "The class angle in ONCE HOLLYWOOD seems to be more in favor of the haves than have-nots"

    The only class angle evident is the relationship between Pitt's Cliff Booth character and DiCaprio's Rick Dalton. Cliff's solid blue collar work ethic is in contrast to Rick's whiny and emotional TV star privilege. But even Rick was a striver, taking film work in Italy he felt was beneath him. Roman Polanski is presented as showbiz elite, but familiarity with his backstory would dispel any notion of an entitled position. The TV and film business is plagued by cronyism and nepotism, but it also contains a meritocratic quality that rivals any other industry.

    , @ricpic
    @Anonymous

    They aren't deplorables, they're hippies. World of difference. Hippies are not have-nots, hippies are a criminal class. And not even an honest about what they are criminal class; a we're all about peace & love criminal class. Which is rightly despised by the Hollywood journeymen played by DeCaprio and Pitt.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @syonredux
    @Anonymous


    But what if the Manson Minions are meant to be the envious and resentful Deplorables? The movie is about rooting for Hollywood Rich against the have-nots, the ‘white trash’ of society.
    The class angle in ONCE HOLLYWOOD seems to be more in favor of the haves than have-nots, which is different from PARASITE.
     
    The Mansonites have nothing to do with "have-nots"; they symbolize WOKE-folk.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  11. Ah yes, good old Wesley Morris, who managed to sneak into a New York Times article a charming anecdote about his… disappointingly small manhood?

    One night, when I was 24 and living in San Francisco, I met a handsome white guy visiting from Germany. We stood near a window in a crowded bar and talked about an art show he’d just seen. Eventually I brought him to my apartment, where, after removing some of his clothes, he eagerly started to undo my pants. But then he stood there for a moment and gave my crotch a long, perplexed look, like Geraldo Rivera did when, after months of buildup, he opened what turned out to be Al Capone’s empty vault. He replaced his clothes and, before exiting, explained himself: “That’s not what I expected.”

    I know, I know, why did I read that far into the article… I find Morris’s opinions and writing style to be morbidly fascinating like a bad car accident, and it just keeps me reading.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/30/magazine/black-male-sexuality-last-taboo.html

  12. Rand Paul just threw down like he was aiming for China. Presidential speculation for a later race is now reasonable. In awe of the size of this absolute madlad’s absolute units.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @J.Ross

    This is what libertarians are for.

    So, so important to keep them busy on shit like this so they don't screw up everything else. Brennan's already emptied all six chambers to Sunday and now it's down to hand-to-hand combat.

    https://twitter.com/themarketswork/status/1225210478399410176?s=20

    , @Forbes
    @J.Ross

    The walls must be closing in on Brennan. One can only hope.

  13. Ah yes, good old Wesley Morris, who manages to include in a New York Times article a charming anecdote about his… disappointingly small manhood?

    One night, when I was 24 and living in San Francisco, I met a handsome white guy visiting from Germany. We stood near a window in a crowded bar and talked about an art show he’d just seen. Eventually I brought him to my apartment, where, after removing some of his clothes, he eagerly started to undo my pants. But then he stood there for a moment and gave my crotch a long, perplexed look, like Geraldo Rivera did when, after months of buildup, he opened what turned out to be Al Capone’s empty vault. He replaced his clothes and, before exiting, explained himself: “That’s not what I expected.”

    I know, I know. Why did I read that far into the article… I find Morris’s opinions and writing style to be morbidly fascinating like a bad car wreck, and it just keeps me reading.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/30/magazine/black-male-sexuality-last-taboo.html

    • Replies: @black sea
    @pirelli


    He replaced his clothes and, before exiting, explained himself: “That’s not what I expected.”
     
    Blackpilled, indeed.
    , @El Dato
    @pirelli

    Wasn't “Jojo Rabbit” about the Holocaust Discovery Process that every person goes through in his youth? Kind of like Neon Holocaust Evangelion?

    So of course it's Oscarified.

    I'm waiting for a only-black-actors movie of genocide & cannibalism in coastal Africa.

    Then the Phoenicians come with their round-Africa expedition, have a good laugh, then get the fuck out to report back home.

  14. I thought all the nominated movies were pretty bad. I was hoping 1917 would be good but I finally saw it this past weekend and was disappointed. It was boring as hell.

  15. @Achmed E. Newman
    This guy is really fatigued. You can tell by the pointless article. Speaking of lots of movies being made about the past, I guess that's because the Hollywood writers are less creative than in the past. It's either comic books, action flicks, remakes of 1980s action flicks, Star Wars prequels and sequels, or some type of Hobbit or Harry Potter shit (is Harry Potter in charge of the hobbits? It's all mixed up to me now.) Another good Angry Birds movie could make up for all that, I guess.

    I will see a few of the movies you've recommended from this year, though, Steve ... waiting for the library to get em ... not a big hurry...

    Replies: @Desiderius, @RickinJax, @SunBakedSuburb

    No, it’s because we need to unrevisionize the past to get the present back on track. Lot of good work along that line this year with Hollywood, Ferrari, and Jewell. Smacking down 1619 and its promoters hard will also go a long way.

  16. Sorry, but the best version of Klaus is this one:

  17. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    @SFG

    Fight Club was stupid even upon my 2nd viewing. See Movie Review - "Fight Club" still sucks.

    First rule of Fight Club: You do not talk about how bad the movie sucks!

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Morton's toes

    FIGHT CLUB is well made but retarded as concept and insane as message.

    Fincher is an ace director and can make a movie look good but cannot redeem worthless material.

    GIRL GONE was certainly watchable(well, once) but what trash.

    SOCIAL NETWORK is a smooth operation but a pack of lies.

    ALIEN3 and ZODIAC are the only two works where the movie idea was worthy of Fincher’s talent. (I know I’m in the minority on the ALIEN movie.)

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Anonymous

    I thought Alien^3 was good and mostly successful with the risks it took. I can understand why people didn't like it, and it is certainly not at the level of the first two films in the franchise.

    I thought Fincher did well making The Game quite eerie at points.

  18. @J.Ross
    Rand Paul just threw down like he was aiming for China. Presidential speculation for a later race is now reasonable. In awe of the size of this absolute madlad's absolute units.
    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1225199838322667521

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Forbes

    This is what libertarians are for.

    So, so important to keep them busy on shit like this so they don’t screw up everything else. Brennan’s already emptied all six chambers to Sunday and now it’s down to hand-to-hand combat.

  19. @Achmed E. Newman
    This guy is really fatigued. You can tell by the pointless article. Speaking of lots of movies being made about the past, I guess that's because the Hollywood writers are less creative than in the past. It's either comic books, action flicks, remakes of 1980s action flicks, Star Wars prequels and sequels, or some type of Hobbit or Harry Potter shit (is Harry Potter in charge of the hobbits? It's all mixed up to me now.) Another good Angry Birds movie could make up for all that, I guess.

    I will see a few of the movies you've recommended from this year, though, Steve ... waiting for the library to get em ... not a big hurry...

    Replies: @Desiderius, @RickinJax, @SunBakedSuburb

    Harry Potter and Frodo are both illegitimate children of Gandalf.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  20. @SFG
    Anyone think Joker is the new Fight Club? It's got that aggrieved-masculine feel to it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Jake

    Fight Club is a gay film made from a gay novel.

    • Agree: Ian M.
  21. This is why I prefer small independent films

    This was written by an Asian American

  22. Quentin Tarantino is not a “talented man.” He is a vile pandering scumbag. If you like him, you are a john.

    • Agree: Old Prude
  23. @Achmed E. Newman
    @SFG

    Fight Club was stupid even upon my 2nd viewing. See Movie Review - "Fight Club" still sucks.

    First rule of Fight Club: You do not talk about how bad the movie sucks!

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Morton's toes

    Fight Club was an unbelievably great movie until Meatloaf died and they did the zombie “His name was Robert Paulson” chant. Ninety minutes of great? It was a film event of the Neal Stephenson phenomenon where it’s brilliant right up to the point where they needed to write an ending for it.

    Has Palahniuk commented on the ending anywhere? I haven’t read the book but it’s very well thought of and I presume it has an ending.

  24. As gay, black movie critics go, Armond White’s got it all over this guy any day of the year. Name another black guy whose favorite movie of 2019 was Dragged Across Concrete and who prolifically quotes Morrissey? I rest my case.

  25. Well, in my humble opinion, Hollywood is way too Jewish.

  26. If this is representative of his writing the pulitzer he got falls under plaques for blacks or praise for gays.He is probably too self absorbed to notice this obvious fact.

  27. “Not since my wish list and Walkman days, have I despised so few nominees in this category. Most of them I love. As for the one failure, I’ve never worked harder to get with the program. But after four tries, I gave up. This Joker, quite often literally, has no clothes.”

    Today Netflix series have less and less resemblance to reality, yet the producers expect their intended audience to believe these yarns. If you are an impressionable dope, I suppose you would.

    A Netflix series scenario example is the following: the Black protagonists introduce themselves as senior director of the CIA or professor of physics from Caltech to the gullible vulnerable white blond gal.

    How do we square this silly fantasy circle with the celebrated ‘Last Black Man in San Francisco’?

    I’ve worked in Silicon Valley for many years and African Americans were not very successful in any numbers in any technical role. Occasionally you’d find a member of the talented tenth, a successful cafe latte black, in a technical role but they were very few and far between.

    The most obvious failing occurred when Blacks were tasked with the company or industry proficiency tests and must retest over and over again to pass. At work, their assigned tasks were far simpler than the average White or Asian team member. Everyone knew they were tolerated more and jumped ship earlier for more money than Whites or Asians.

  28. “Little Women, Hated it!”

    “Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio, two mens turning to each other for strunth.”

    For those old enough to remember In Living Color’s “Men on Film.”

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @syonredux
    @black sea

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4ojGuA33X4

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

  29. “Dear Oscars, I Love You. But We Need to Talk.“

    Obviously homo title – thanks for giving it away early.

    “We Need to Talk” – A late 20th/early 21st century English figure of speech meaning “shut up and listen to my emotional rant without raising logical objections”. See also “We need to have a conversation” (black English colloquialism).

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Laurence Whelk

    Yes, I think you nailed it, Laurence. At the local level, for men, "we need to talk" should be a phrase that causes one to ponder what are one's most valuable possessions, who's one's most trusted friend, where to borrow a pick-up truck, and when the bank will open in the morning. All that should be going through one's head before she even opens her mouth.

  30. @Laurence Whelk
    “Dear Oscars, I Love You. But We Need to Talk.“

    Obviously homo title - thanks for giving it away early.

    “We Need to Talk” - A late 20th/early 21st century English figure of speech meaning “shut up and listen to my emotional rant without raising logical objections”. See also “We need to have a conversation” (black English colloquialism).

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Yes, I think you nailed it, Laurence. At the local level, for men, “we need to talk” should be a phrase that causes one to ponder what are one’s most valuable possessions, who’s one’s most trusted friend, where to borrow a pick-up truck, and when the bank will open in the morning. All that should be going through one’s head before she even opens her mouth.

  31. @RickinJax
    Artists often react against the zeitgeist.
    When Nixon walked on the beach in a suit and dress shoes they made Easy Rider.
    Now that we have women CEOs and pro athletes celebrating their faggoty empathy ,directors make movies about race car drivers and macho stunt men. Why the surprise?

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    Movies are supposed to be about Escapism. So I guess normal people are trying to escape from the annoying nightmare of modern Wokeism.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Hypnotoad666

    "the annoying nightmare of modern Wokeism"

    Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is a vacation from Woke. Where white guys can bond with nary a negro in sight. It's a pleasant surprise from Tarantino whose oeuvre reeks of casual sadism and racial social justice. Never been a fan of the man, but I must admit his latest film is great, superbly crafted, and deserves its accolades.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  32. OT- Kirk Douglas died. Calling Olivia de Havilland for the comment….

  33. @Anonymous
    @Achmed E. Newman

    FIGHT CLUB is well made but retarded as concept and insane as message.

    Fincher is an ace director and can make a movie look good but cannot redeem worthless material.

    GIRL GONE was certainly watchable(well, once) but what trash.

    SOCIAL NETWORK is a smooth operation but a pack of lies.

    ALIEN3 and ZODIAC are the only two works where the movie idea was worthy of Fincher's talent. (I know I'm in the minority on the ALIEN movie.)

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    I thought Alien^3 was good and mostly successful with the risks it took. I can understand why people didn’t like it, and it is certainly not at the level of the first two films in the franchise.

    I thought Fincher did well making The Game quite eerie at points.

  34. • Replies: @Forbes
    @Desiderius

    No one wakes up in the morning thinking about how to maximize their lifetime earnings.

    You might think The Economist would know about trade-offs, but you'd be mistaken.

    You might think The Economist would know about marriage, but you'd be mistaken.

    I'm pretty certain married couples have higher lifetime earnings, per capita, than do singles.

  35. Wesley Morris needs to shut up and stop culturally appropriating whypeepos film tradition. We need awards for stories told via bongo drums and lip rings. We will make sure that Africans win all of those.

  36. @Achmed E. Newman
    This guy is really fatigued. You can tell by the pointless article. Speaking of lots of movies being made about the past, I guess that's because the Hollywood writers are less creative than in the past. It's either comic books, action flicks, remakes of 1980s action flicks, Star Wars prequels and sequels, or some type of Hobbit or Harry Potter shit (is Harry Potter in charge of the hobbits? It's all mixed up to me now.) Another good Angry Birds movie could make up for all that, I guess.

    I will see a few of the movies you've recommended from this year, though, Steve ... waiting for the library to get em ... not a big hurry...

    Replies: @Desiderius, @RickinJax, @SunBakedSuburb

    “I guess that’s because the Hollywood writers are less creative than in the past.”

    The current structure of the film business has shrunk the space between the expensive franchise movies and the low to micro budget independents. It’s in the middle space between the two extremes where the creative and original filmmakers can thrive. But, alas.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @SunBakedSuburb

    This is oft bemoaned on 4chan's /tv/ board: the loss of Orion, the loss of the mid-budget picture, the loss of any film that takes a chance. Every film must be big or huge, must be oscar bait or a thoroughly established franchise on its fourth reboot. The go-to justification of woke casting is after all the capture of the new market. Watching Electric Boogaloo: The Cannon Pictures Story (as we all must do) you never thought that the Golan-Globus Azathoth was a high water mark for creativity in Hollywood.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

  37. Oh, black *and* gay.

    And *five* of the set-in-the-past seven are set in the US, not six. Math is hard.

  38. @J.Ross
    Rand Paul just threw down like he was aiming for China. Presidential speculation for a later race is now reasonable. In awe of the size of this absolute madlad's absolute units.
    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1225199838322667521

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Forbes

    The walls must be closing in on Brennan. One can only hope.

  39. @pirelli
    Ah yes, good old Wesley Morris, who manages to include in a New York Times article a charming anecdote about his... disappointingly small manhood?

    One night, when I was 24 and living in San Francisco, I met a handsome white guy visiting from Germany. We stood near a window in a crowded bar and talked about an art show he’d just seen. Eventually I brought him to my apartment, where, after removing some of his clothes, he eagerly started to undo my pants. But then he stood there for a moment and gave my crotch a long, perplexed look, like Geraldo Rivera did when, after months of buildup, he opened what turned out to be Al Capone’s empty vault. He replaced his clothes and, before exiting, explained himself: “That’s not what I expected.”
     
    I know, I know. Why did I read that far into the article... I find Morris’s opinions and writing style to be morbidly fascinating like a bad car wreck, and it just keeps me reading.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/30/magazine/black-male-sexuality-last-taboo.html

    Replies: @black sea, @El Dato

    He replaced his clothes and, before exiting, explained himself: “That’s not what I expected.”

    Blackpilled, indeed.

  40. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/EthanOakwin/status/1198996053971783680?s=20

    Replies: @Forbes

    No one wakes up in the morning thinking about how to maximize their lifetime earnings.

    You might think The Economist would know about trade-offs, but you’d be mistaken.

    You might think The Economist would know about marriage, but you’d be mistaken.

    I’m pretty certain married couples have higher lifetime earnings, per capita, than do singles.

  41. @Anonymous

    In other words, it’s almost as if the most talented figures in the movie business, most of whom are white men such as Quentin Tarantino, have tended to react to The Great Awokening by moving in the opposite direction.
     
    But what if the Manson Minions are meant to be the envious and resentful Deplorables? The movie is about rooting for Hollywood Rich against the have-nots, the 'white trash' of society.
    The class angle in ONCE HOLLYWOOD seems to be more in favor of the haves than have-nots, which is different from PARASITE.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @ricpic, @syonredux

    “The class angle in ONCE HOLLYWOOD seems to be more in favor of the haves than have-nots”

    The only class angle evident is the relationship between Pitt’s Cliff Booth character and DiCaprio’s Rick Dalton. Cliff’s solid blue collar work ethic is in contrast to Rick’s whiny and emotional TV star privilege. But even Rick was a striver, taking film work in Italy he felt was beneath him. Roman Polanski is presented as showbiz elite, but familiarity with his backstory would dispel any notion of an entitled position. The TV and film business is plagued by cronyism and nepotism, but it also contains a meritocratic quality that rivals any other industry.

  42. @black sea
    "Little Women, Hated it!"

    "Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio, two mens turning to each other for strunth."


    For those old enough to remember In Living Color's "Men on Film."

    Replies: @syonredux

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @syonredux

    In Living Color was some of the funniest stuff on TV ever. I saw it when it was first on and thought even then "how did this make it past the network censors?" It's out on dvd now.

  43. @Hypnotoad666
    @RickinJax

    Movies are supposed to be about Escapism. So I guess normal people are trying to escape from the annoying nightmare of modern Wokeism.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    “the annoying nightmare of modern Wokeism”

    Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is a vacation from Woke. Where white guys can bond with nary a negro in sight. It’s a pleasant surprise from Tarantino whose oeuvre reeks of casual sadism and racial social justice. Never been a fan of the man, but I must admit his latest film is great, superbly crafted, and deserves its accolades.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @SunBakedSuburb

    I think I understand what Tarentino was doing with that car door, albeit with Tarentinesque imprecision, and, if I'm right, agree with it. Nothing to do with the man himself. To check, find any criticism of the same ethnic group in current Hollywood.

  44. GROAN

    Well, they had the option to reward Alita for special effects at least – plus it’s got quite a high diversity score.

    But wait, politics weren’t shoehorned in. Haram!

  45. That this guy earns a living from writing woke articles shows there’s a maldistribution of wealth.

  46. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Achmed E. Newman

    "I guess that's because the Hollywood writers are less creative than in the past."

    The current structure of the film business has shrunk the space between the expensive franchise movies and the low to micro budget independents. It's in the middle space between the two extremes where the creative and original filmmakers can thrive. But, alas.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    This is oft bemoaned on 4chan’s /tv/ board: the loss of Orion, the loss of the mid-budget picture, the loss of any film that takes a chance. Every film must be big or huge, must be oscar bait or a thoroughly established franchise on its fourth reboot. The go-to justification of woke casting is after all the capture of the new market. Watching Electric Boogaloo: The Cannon Pictures Story (as we all must do) you never thought that the Golan-Globus Azathoth was a high water mark for creativity in Hollywood.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @J.Ross


    ...the loss of Orion...
     
    Orion gave us a lot of great stuff in their day:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_Pictures#Notable_films

    ...you never thought that the Golan-Globus Azathoth was a high water mark for creativity in Hollywood...
     
    Mostly schlock, but they had their moments:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Cannon_Group_films

    Particular standouts were 1986's Firewalker with Chuck Norris and Lou Gossett, Jr., the American Ninja franchise, and the endlessly rewatchable, so bad it's good, Bloodsport!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNibi-NWW4o

    Replies: @Servant of Gla'aki

  47. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Hypnotoad666

    "the annoying nightmare of modern Wokeism"

    Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is a vacation from Woke. Where white guys can bond with nary a negro in sight. It's a pleasant surprise from Tarantino whose oeuvre reeks of casual sadism and racial social justice. Never been a fan of the man, but I must admit his latest film is great, superbly crafted, and deserves its accolades.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    I think I understand what Tarentino was doing with that car door, albeit with Tarentinesque imprecision, and, if I’m right, agree with it. Nothing to do with the man himself. To check, find any criticism of the same ethnic group in current Hollywood.

  48. If we put aside amusing social-political-cultural aspects- who actually watches all these movies?

    Esteemed & erudite critic Jonathan Rosenbaum regularly publishes his lists of films of decades, years… For instance:

    The 90s
    https://www.jonathanrosenbaum.net/2019/07/the-decade-s-finest/

    2005-2009
    https://www.jonathanrosenbaum.net/2010/02/ten-best-lists-2005-2009/

    The decade 2010-2019
    https://www.yearendlists.com/2019/12/jonathan-rosenbaum-best-films-of-the-decade-2010-2019

    Year 2016
    https://www.yearendlists.com/2016/12/jonathan-rosenbaum-top-10-films-of-2016

    Year 2018
    https://www.yearendlists.com/2018/12/jonathan-rosenbaum-best-movies-of-2018
    ….

    ???

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Bardon Kaldian


    If we put aside amusing social-political-cultural aspects- who actually watches all these movies?
     
    Rosenbaum as serious cinephile is interesting. Rosenbaum as cheap moralist is insufferable.
  49. @pirelli
    Ah yes, good old Wesley Morris, who manages to include in a New York Times article a charming anecdote about his... disappointingly small manhood?

    One night, when I was 24 and living in San Francisco, I met a handsome white guy visiting from Germany. We stood near a window in a crowded bar and talked about an art show he’d just seen. Eventually I brought him to my apartment, where, after removing some of his clothes, he eagerly started to undo my pants. But then he stood there for a moment and gave my crotch a long, perplexed look, like Geraldo Rivera did when, after months of buildup, he opened what turned out to be Al Capone’s empty vault. He replaced his clothes and, before exiting, explained himself: “That’s not what I expected.”
     
    I know, I know. Why did I read that far into the article... I find Morris’s opinions and writing style to be morbidly fascinating like a bad car wreck, and it just keeps me reading.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/30/magazine/black-male-sexuality-last-taboo.html

    Replies: @black sea, @El Dato

    Wasn’t “Jojo Rabbit” about the Holocaust Discovery Process that every person goes through in his youth? Kind of like Neon Holocaust Evangelion?

    So of course it’s Oscarified.

    I’m waiting for a only-black-actors movie of genocide & cannibalism in coastal Africa.

    Then the Phoenicians come with their round-Africa expedition, have a good laugh, then get the fuck out to report back home.

  50. @Anonymous

    In other words, it’s almost as if the most talented figures in the movie business, most of whom are white men such as Quentin Tarantino, have tended to react to The Great Awokening by moving in the opposite direction.
     
    But what if the Manson Minions are meant to be the envious and resentful Deplorables? The movie is about rooting for Hollywood Rich against the have-nots, the 'white trash' of society.
    The class angle in ONCE HOLLYWOOD seems to be more in favor of the haves than have-nots, which is different from PARASITE.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @ricpic, @syonredux

    They aren’t deplorables, they’re hippies. World of difference. Hippies are not have-nots, hippies are a criminal class. And not even an honest about what they are criminal class; a we’re all about peace & love criminal class. Which is rightly despised by the Hollywood journeymen played by DeCaprio and Pitt.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @ricpic


    They aren’t deplorables, they’re hippies. World of difference. Hippies are not have-nots, hippies are a criminal class.
     
    I'm not saying 'deplorables' are like hippies. I'm saying Tarantino could have been making that case, at least half-way. Also, most hippies were happy bunch of ne'er-do-wells, not like the Manson monsters. So, the movie is really about 'hippies' than real hippies. Or they're more like himbies, or hippy-zombies.

    Also, the reason why the 'himbies' decided to go after Dalton is due to class angst. Dalton shouts at them, "YOU DON'T BELONG HERE." Dalton, whose feared losing everything with a sinking career, had a bounce/comeback of sorts, and he pulls class rank on the 'himbies'.
    Now, of course, he had reason to be upset. No one wants their private property trespassed upon, but his rage goes beyond annoyance. It's further ironic that he would dump on the 'himbies' when he's been supported by a low-class stunt-man all these years... who by the way is cast aside when he's no longer useful to Dalton.

    And another thing. Even though Dalton and Booth talk shit about 'hippies', Dalton's finest moment and comeback had to do with him going 'hippie' or 'hells angel' as the heavy. That change-of-tune dug out something from within. And Booth has the most epic moment of his life by dropping/smoking acid and fighting with psychedelic fury.

    Replies: @syonredux

  51. • Replies: @El Dato
    @MEH 0910


    women, POC, LGBTQ people are all over history
     
    Grand intellectual pronouncements of 2020.

    And it's going to get worse, too.
  52. Anonymous[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @ricpic
    @Anonymous

    They aren't deplorables, they're hippies. World of difference. Hippies are not have-nots, hippies are a criminal class. And not even an honest about what they are criminal class; a we're all about peace & love criminal class. Which is rightly despised by the Hollywood journeymen played by DeCaprio and Pitt.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    They aren’t deplorables, they’re hippies. World of difference. Hippies are not have-nots, hippies are a criminal class.

    I’m not saying ‘deplorables’ are like hippies. I’m saying Tarantino could have been making that case, at least half-way. Also, most hippies were happy bunch of ne’er-do-wells, not like the Manson monsters. So, the movie is really about ‘hippies’ than real hippies. Or they’re more like himbies, or hippy-zombies.

    Also, the reason why the ‘himbies’ decided to go after Dalton is due to class angst. Dalton shouts at them, “YOU DON’T BELONG HERE.” Dalton, whose feared losing everything with a sinking career, had a bounce/comeback of sorts, and he pulls class rank on the ‘himbies’.
    Now, of course, he had reason to be upset. No one wants their private property trespassed upon, but his rage goes beyond annoyance. It’s further ironic that he would dump on the ‘himbies’ when he’s been supported by a low-class stunt-man all these years… who by the way is cast aside when he’s no longer useful to Dalton.

    And another thing. Even though Dalton and Booth talk shit about ‘hippies’, Dalton’s finest moment and comeback had to do with him going ‘hippie’ or ‘hells angel’ as the heavy. That change-of-tune dug out something from within. And Booth has the most epic moment of his life by dropping/smoking acid and fighting with psychedelic fury.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Anonymous


    Also, the reason why the ‘himbies’ decided to go after Dalton is due to class angst. Dalton shouts at them, “YOU DON’T BELONG HERE.” Dalton, whose feared losing everything with a sinking career, had a bounce/comeback of sorts, and he pulls class rank on the ‘himbies’.
     
    The reason why they go after Dalton and Co is because the dark-haired WOKE-Hippy has worked out an ideological reason for why they should kill the star of an old "cowboy tv show"....

    Also, most hippies were happy bunch of ne’er-do-wells, not like the Manson monsters. So, the movie is really about ‘hippies’ than real hippies. Or they’re more like himbies, or hippy-zombies.

     

    Or maybe Antifa goons....Note, too, how the female Mansonites are depicted as the carriers of WOKE ideology.....Servitors of Chairman Charlie....

    And another thing. Even though Dalton and Booth talk shit about ‘hippies’, Dalton’s finest moment and comeback had to do with him going ‘hippie’ or ‘hells angel’ as the heavy.
     
    And was very uncomfortable with the whole business ("1869 meets 1969!")Old America vs Hippy-WOKE America. How far can Old America go before she loses her soul....

    That change-of-tune dug out something from within. And Booth has the most epic moment of his life by dropping/smoking acid and fighting with psychedelic fury.
     
    Nah. The acid was meant to impair Cliff's fighting prowess. Without it, the scene would have been completely lacking in suspense.

    It’s further ironic that he would dump on the ‘himbies’ when he’s been supported by a low-class stunt-man all these years… who by the way is cast aside when he’s no longer useful to Dalton.
     
    And there's the actual symbolism in the film. Cliff (the man who fought in WW2 and does the dangerous stunts that Rick can't/won't do) is traditional White America, not the parasitic Hippies...

    Replies: @Anonymous

  53. @syonredux
    @black sea

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4ojGuA33X4

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    In Living Color was some of the funniest stuff on TV ever. I saw it when it was first on and thought even then “how did this make it past the network censors?” It’s out on dvd now.

  54. Obviously the Academy Awards should openly have categories defined by race, ethnic origin. sexual orientation, religion, and all of the other Marxist Identity victim categories. Then all the nomination fuss will be about which films qualified for which special category.

    Tarentino will have his own special category about ultra violent films of cliche subject matter (hippie Hollywood, WWII, cowboy west) where actual historical endings are remade to Quinton’s personal preference. I understand his next film is tentatively titled “Saving Mary Todd Lincoln.” In this new ending, after chuckling at the play Lincoln grabs Mary Todd’s smuggled in Gatling gun and tears John Wilkes Booth to pieces, his blood splattering the audience of Our American Cousins. It’s sort of an ironic statement about American love of powerful firearms. Our American Cousins indeed! Oh that Quinton!

    Lincoln then goes on to prevent the formation of the KKK and the racial problem never exists.

    A sure Best Picture Oscar winner, but only if he makes Mary Todd a closeted lesbian. Maybe also really African American, just kind of pale. Like Hamilton. Will then qualify for multiple Oscar categories. Can’t we all just get along now?

  55. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/craftingmystyle/status/1225446537389584384

    Replies: @El Dato

    women, POC, LGBTQ people are all over history

    Grand intellectual pronouncements of 2020.

    And it’s going to get worse, too.

  56. @J.Ross
    @SunBakedSuburb

    This is oft bemoaned on 4chan's /tv/ board: the loss of Orion, the loss of the mid-budget picture, the loss of any film that takes a chance. Every film must be big or huge, must be oscar bait or a thoroughly established franchise on its fourth reboot. The go-to justification of woke casting is after all the capture of the new market. Watching Electric Boogaloo: The Cannon Pictures Story (as we all must do) you never thought that the Golan-Globus Azathoth was a high water mark for creativity in Hollywood.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    …the loss of Orion…

    Orion gave us a lot of great stuff in their day:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_Pictures#Notable_films

    …you never thought that the Golan-Globus Azathoth was a high water mark for creativity in Hollywood…

    Mostly schlock, but they had their moments:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Cannon_Group_films

    Particular standouts were 1986’s Firewalker with Chuck Norris and Lou Gossett, Jr., the American Ninja franchise, and the endlessly rewatchable, so bad it’s good, Bloodsport!

    • Replies: @Servant of Gla'aki
    @The Wild Geese Howard


    ...and the endlessly rewatchable, so bad it’s good, Bloodsport!
     
    Ah yes, the Kumite. I'd almost forgotten about that.
  57. That “Richard Jewell” isn’t nominated for at least 5 Oscars is the bigger fiasco.

  58. @Anonymous

    In other words, it’s almost as if the most talented figures in the movie business, most of whom are white men such as Quentin Tarantino, have tended to react to The Great Awokening by moving in the opposite direction.
     
    But what if the Manson Minions are meant to be the envious and resentful Deplorables? The movie is about rooting for Hollywood Rich against the have-nots, the 'white trash' of society.
    The class angle in ONCE HOLLYWOOD seems to be more in favor of the haves than have-nots, which is different from PARASITE.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @ricpic, @syonredux

    But what if the Manson Minions are meant to be the envious and resentful Deplorables? The movie is about rooting for Hollywood Rich against the have-nots, the ‘white trash’ of society.
    The class angle in ONCE HOLLYWOOD seems to be more in favor of the haves than have-nots, which is different from PARASITE.

    The Mansonites have nothing to do with “have-nots”; they symbolize WOKE-folk.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @syonredux


    they symbolize WOKE-folk.
     
    Maybe the Woking Class.

    Today's woke people mainly attack the white working class. They spare the rich, haute urbanites, celebrities, and etc. In contrast, the 'hippies' in the movie seem to have settled into Spahn's ranch with the old man's blessing, and moreover, they go after the Hollywood rich. Do woke people go after the Hollywood rich? Okay, there's Harvey Weinstein, but he's under assault from those in the industry. Or take Depp vs Amber Heard. It's celeb vs celeb.

    The fact is the wokesters of today leave alone the urban globo-homo rich. They spew their hatred at the working class and deplorables. How are the 'hippies' like that in ONCE IN HOLLYWOOD? They seem anti-elitist.

    Indeed, it might not be so bad if so-called woke people attacked Hollywood. Sure, they yammer about #oscarsowhite, but they do no violence on Hollywood. Antifa scum physically attack 'deplorables' and white working class conservatives. Antifa scum protect Wall STreet and Hollywood.

    Replies: @syonredux

  59. Too White & Male

    Can’t be as white & male as my photo collection…

    Is it also too human? (Are speciesm and human supremacy any less evil or urgent than racism and White Supremacy [sic]? Surely, our vegan friends would answer a resounding No!) But some diversity, inadequate and flawed as it may be, I can at least claim… http://film.animare.hu/i/f/172/600.jpg

  60. • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @MEH 0910

    Search "Boone" on the Star Wars (1977) Wikipedia page....

    0 of 0 matches found...

    Try for yourself if you don't believe me:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_(film)

  61. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/ScottFeinberg/status/1225478308789272577

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    Search “Boone” on the Star Wars (1977) Wikipedia page….

    0 of 0 matches found…

    Try for yourself if you don’t believe me:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_(film)

  62. @Bardon Kaldian
    If we put aside amusing social-political-cultural aspects- who actually watches all these movies?

    Esteemed & erudite critic Jonathan Rosenbaum regularly publishes his lists of films of decades, years... For instance:

    The 90s
    https://www.jonathanrosenbaum.net/2019/07/the-decade-s-finest/

    2005-2009
    https://www.jonathanrosenbaum.net/2010/02/ten-best-lists-2005-2009/

    The decade 2010-2019
    https://www.yearendlists.com/2019/12/jonathan-rosenbaum-best-films-of-the-decade-2010-2019

    Year 2016
    https://www.yearendlists.com/2016/12/jonathan-rosenbaum-top-10-films-of-2016

    Year 2018
    https://www.yearendlists.com/2018/12/jonathan-rosenbaum-best-movies-of-2018
    ....

    ???

    Replies: @Anonymous

    If we put aside amusing social-political-cultural aspects- who actually watches all these movies?

    Rosenbaum as serious cinephile is interesting. Rosenbaum as cheap moralist is insufferable.

  63. Anonymous[112] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux
    @Anonymous


    But what if the Manson Minions are meant to be the envious and resentful Deplorables? The movie is about rooting for Hollywood Rich against the have-nots, the ‘white trash’ of society.
    The class angle in ONCE HOLLYWOOD seems to be more in favor of the haves than have-nots, which is different from PARASITE.
     
    The Mansonites have nothing to do with "have-nots"; they symbolize WOKE-folk.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    they symbolize WOKE-folk.

    Maybe the Woking Class.

    Today’s woke people mainly attack the white working class. They spare the rich, haute urbanites, celebrities, and etc. In contrast, the ‘hippies’ in the movie seem to have settled into Spahn’s ranch with the old man’s blessing, and moreover, they go after the Hollywood rich. Do woke people go after the Hollywood rich? Okay, there’s Harvey Weinstein, but he’s under assault from those in the industry. Or take Depp vs Amber Heard. It’s celeb vs celeb.

    The fact is the wokesters of today leave alone the urban globo-homo rich. They spew their hatred at the working class and deplorables. How are the ‘hippies’ like that in ONCE IN HOLLYWOOD? They seem anti-elitist.

    Indeed, it might not be so bad if so-called woke people attacked Hollywood. Sure, they yammer about #oscarsowhite, but they do no violence on Hollywood. Antifa scum physically attack ‘deplorables’ and white working class conservatives. Antifa scum protect Wall STreet and Hollywood.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Anonymous


    In contrast, the ‘hippies’ in the movie seem to have settled into Spahn’s ranch with the old man’s blessing,
     
    Taking over an old Western movie ranch....WOKE-America vs Cowboy America.....Note, too, how the scenes at the ranch are full of menace.....Almost zombie horror, QT's version of a Romero movie...

    and moreover, they go after the Hollywood rich. Do woke people go after the Hollywood rich? Okay, there’s Harvey Weinstein, but he’s under assault from those in the industry. Or take Depp vs Amber Heard. It’s celeb vs celeb.
     
    Note, however, how the film has them switching targets....Instead of killing "New Hollywood" types, they go after a symbol of '50s Hollywood, the star of a "cowboy tv show".....WOKEsters purging American culture of the things...and people...that are not ideologically correct....

    Replies: @Anonymous

  64. @Anonymous
    @ricpic


    They aren’t deplorables, they’re hippies. World of difference. Hippies are not have-nots, hippies are a criminal class.
     
    I'm not saying 'deplorables' are like hippies. I'm saying Tarantino could have been making that case, at least half-way. Also, most hippies were happy bunch of ne'er-do-wells, not like the Manson monsters. So, the movie is really about 'hippies' than real hippies. Or they're more like himbies, or hippy-zombies.

    Also, the reason why the 'himbies' decided to go after Dalton is due to class angst. Dalton shouts at them, "YOU DON'T BELONG HERE." Dalton, whose feared losing everything with a sinking career, had a bounce/comeback of sorts, and he pulls class rank on the 'himbies'.
    Now, of course, he had reason to be upset. No one wants their private property trespassed upon, but his rage goes beyond annoyance. It's further ironic that he would dump on the 'himbies' when he's been supported by a low-class stunt-man all these years... who by the way is cast aside when he's no longer useful to Dalton.

    And another thing. Even though Dalton and Booth talk shit about 'hippies', Dalton's finest moment and comeback had to do with him going 'hippie' or 'hells angel' as the heavy. That change-of-tune dug out something from within. And Booth has the most epic moment of his life by dropping/smoking acid and fighting with psychedelic fury.

    Replies: @syonredux

    Also, the reason why the ‘himbies’ decided to go after Dalton is due to class angst. Dalton shouts at them, “YOU DON’T BELONG HERE.” Dalton, whose feared losing everything with a sinking career, had a bounce/comeback of sorts, and he pulls class rank on the ‘himbies’.

    The reason why they go after Dalton and Co is because the dark-haired WOKE-Hippy has worked out an ideological reason for why they should kill the star of an old “cowboy tv show”….

    Also, most hippies were happy bunch of ne’er-do-wells, not like the Manson monsters. So, the movie is really about ‘hippies’ than real hippies. Or they’re more like himbies, or hippy-zombies.

    Or maybe Antifa goons….Note, too, how the female Mansonites are depicted as the carriers of WOKE ideology…..Servitors of Chairman Charlie….

    And another thing. Even though Dalton and Booth talk shit about ‘hippies’, Dalton’s finest moment and comeback had to do with him going ‘hippie’ or ‘hells angel’ as the heavy.

    And was very uncomfortable with the whole business (“1869 meets 1969!”)Old America vs Hippy-WOKE America. How far can Old America go before she loses her soul….

    That change-of-tune dug out something from within. And Booth has the most epic moment of his life by dropping/smoking acid and fighting with psychedelic fury.

    Nah. The acid was meant to impair Cliff’s fighting prowess. Without it, the scene would have been completely lacking in suspense.

    It’s further ironic that he would dump on the ‘himbies’ when he’s been supported by a low-class stunt-man all these years… who by the way is cast aside when he’s no longer useful to Dalton.

    And there’s the actual symbolism in the film. Cliff (the man who fought in WW2 and does the dangerous stunts that Rick can’t/won’t do) is traditional White America, not the parasitic Hippies…

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @syonredux


    The reason why they go after Dalton and Co is because the dark-haired WOKE-Hippy has worked out an ideological reason for why they should kill the star of an old “cowboy tv show”….
     
    And those 'ideological' reasons have much to do with class. Hollywood people are rich, the Mansonites are not. Also, while Hollywood people intrude into the living rooms of all Americans via TV shows, movies, and advertising, they live in their own gated community that says NO TRESPASSING to most Americans. Also, the girl's 'moral' logic isn't really 'woke'. Actually, it's rather insightful(though hardly justification for killing anyone), the kind of brainstorm that Tarantino himself has been known for, like the stuff about TOP GUN being 'gay'. There is a kernel of truth to what she says. Hollywood has been serving up lots of violence as entertainment with thin veneer of moralism, a theme pursued by Clint Eastwood in UNFORGIVEN. Hollywood knows people are attracted to violence and serve up lots of it, but violence-as-violence is rather too crude and ugly, and so, the violence is justified as sham morality tales. Take Dalton in the movie FIFTY FIREBALLS AT EVIL NAZIS. Sure, there is ostensibly a good-guy vs bad guys angle, but the main attraction is outrageous violence. And Dalton and Booth seem to eager to watch Dalton's role as heavy in FBI where he takes a shotgun to men of the law. That Dalton is playing the bad guy(as opposed to good guy in the Nazi-burning movie) is almost immaterial. Dalton is proud to be a badass killer on the screen. On that grounds, so many violent movies and TV shows have been sensationalizing and exploiting violence(and the animal side of human nature). It fed this slop to the masses and got rich off it. The girl's idea is to make the logic go full circle. Hollywood promotes violence, so let the junkies of TV and movies take the violence back to Hollywood. Now, no sane person can endorse such an idea, but there is a kind of loopy moral logic to it. I'd be more impressed with 'woke' people if they showed even the slightest bit of logic to their argument.

    And was very uncomfortable with the whole business (“1869 meets 1969!”)Old America vs Hippy-WOKE America. How far can Old America go before she loses her soul….
     
    And yet, it's Dalton's finest moment. He knows it, the director knows it, and the precocious little girl knows it. In earlier roles, he just had to play cardboard characters, but as DeCouteau, he really had to some soul-searching and dig something out from within. He has to go 'method', he has to be 'sexy hamlet'. The 'hippie' aspect forces him to be more authentic.
    Also, in some ways, the Old West of American Westerns was a myth. The real West was far messier, bloodier, crazier, and even demented than the vision offered by the classic movie/TV western that relied on rather neat genre formulas. The counterculture's impact on the culture did lead to a reevaluation of the Western that paved the way for Westerns like THE WILD BUNCH and MCCABE AND MRS MILLER, oddly a work that is both most romanticist and most realist.

    Nah. The acid was meant to impair Cliff’s fighting prowess. Without it, the scene would have been completely lacking in suspense.
     
    But it also helps him. It makes him bolder and more daring as he faces Tex. His craziness slows down Tex who is perplexed in encountering someone so 'crazy'. Also, had he not been tripping, he would fed his dog sooner and then the dog would not have been ideally situated on the couch(waiting for her food) to pounce on Tex. The element of chance is one of the big themes of the movie, and chance was on Booth's side because he was filling different under the influence.

    And there’s the actual symbolism in the film. Cliff (the man who fought in WW2 and does the dangerous stunts that Rick can’t/won’t do) is traditional White America, not the parasitic Hippies…
     
    But hasn't Booth also been a man who took other people's order all his life? In the military, he killed because he was told to kill. And though supportive of Dalton, he too is 'parasitic' in that he would be nothing without association with the Industry, however tenuous. (Indeed, in the flashback within the flashback, we see Booth's wife tear into him as a useless 'loser' and bum.) There's a Dylan song, "You gotta serves somebody", and in this the 'hippies' and Booth have something in common. They feel a need to serve somebody. The 'hippies' serve Manson, and Booth serves Dalton. This isn't to say Dalton = Manson or Booth = 'hippies' -- Dalton and Booth are much better -- , but one bunch is the flipside of the other.
  65. @Anonymous
    @syonredux


    they symbolize WOKE-folk.
     
    Maybe the Woking Class.

    Today's woke people mainly attack the white working class. They spare the rich, haute urbanites, celebrities, and etc. In contrast, the 'hippies' in the movie seem to have settled into Spahn's ranch with the old man's blessing, and moreover, they go after the Hollywood rich. Do woke people go after the Hollywood rich? Okay, there's Harvey Weinstein, but he's under assault from those in the industry. Or take Depp vs Amber Heard. It's celeb vs celeb.

    The fact is the wokesters of today leave alone the urban globo-homo rich. They spew their hatred at the working class and deplorables. How are the 'hippies' like that in ONCE IN HOLLYWOOD? They seem anti-elitist.

    Indeed, it might not be so bad if so-called woke people attacked Hollywood. Sure, they yammer about #oscarsowhite, but they do no violence on Hollywood. Antifa scum physically attack 'deplorables' and white working class conservatives. Antifa scum protect Wall STreet and Hollywood.

    Replies: @syonredux

    In contrast, the ‘hippies’ in the movie seem to have settled into Spahn’s ranch with the old man’s blessing,

    Taking over an old Western movie ranch….WOKE-America vs Cowboy America…..Note, too, how the scenes at the ranch are full of menace…..Almost zombie horror, QT’s version of a Romero movie…

    and moreover, they go after the Hollywood rich. Do woke people go after the Hollywood rich? Okay, there’s Harvey Weinstein, but he’s under assault from those in the industry. Or take Depp vs Amber Heard. It’s celeb vs celeb.

    Note, however, how the film has them switching targets….Instead of killing “New Hollywood” types, they go after a symbol of ’50s Hollywood, the star of a “cowboy tv show”…..WOKEsters purging American culture of the things…and people…that are not ideologically correct….

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @syonredux


    Taking over an old Western movie ranch….WOKE-America vs Cowboy America…..Note, too, how the scenes at the ranch are full of menace…..Almost zombie horror, QT’s version of a Romero movie…
     
    But with the approval of George Spahn. Is Spahn bored and welcomes the company? Is he suffering from Alzheimers? Did the Mansonites feed him some drugs that fried his mind? We don't know, but the fact is the 'hippies' are there with Spahn's permission. Booth's suspicion proved to be false, even though, in a way, they are taking advantage of the old man(who might as well be Joe Biden).

    In a way, the 'hippies' seem zombie-like and vampiric, but they are also cowboy-like. They've returned to nature and live a rather neo-primitive lifestyle. One of the fellers is Tex, indeed from Texas no less, and he is quite good with the horses. Indeed, it seems some of the kids there make extra money by offering horsey ride tours. There was an element of the Western to the counterculture. EASY RIDER was like a neo-western that took the themes of LONELY ARE THE BRAVE and COOL HAND LUKE even further. (Peckinpah's PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID and Peter Fonda's HIRED HAND were essentially counterculture Westerns.) All these fences and regulations, the loss of frontier America. Of course, one difference is cowboys of old had to be tough and responsible whereas hippies were the result of excess prosperity. Hippies were playing cowboys(and Indians) without the burden of responsibility that was part and parcel of both worlds.

    As for their zombie-like-ness, it owes much to Sergio Leone(and even to traditional Westerns). In the Western, some stranger rides into town, and there's lots of anxiety and apprehension. People dare not make the wrong move or say the wrong thing lest things get out of hand and guns fire. Indeed, the scene with the 'businessman' and Lancer in the TV show is rather like Booth vs Squeaky at the ranch. A test of wills. When Lancer rides into town, there is silence. DeCouteau(Dalton), being a tough guy himself, eats chicken and says his piece, but most people are silent. They laugh only when the 'businessman' signals he can easily take out the newcomer. But then, the guns fire, and the 'businessman' is killed, and there is nervous silence among the onlookers. This aspect of the Western was further amplified by Leone where the silences last longer, and anxiety level rises higher. There are scenes in ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST where you could hear the pin drop(if not for the wind) because everyone's on the razor's edge... like when Cheyenne(Robards) barges into the tavern/trading-post and makes everyone nervous.

    Also, the 'hippies' are not always 'zombie-like'. They are introduced in a sunny way, gleaning from a shopping mart trash dump in a scene that seems inspired from opening of AMERICAN HONEY(by Andrea Arnold). Also, Booth takes an instant-liking to one of the girls, a cute little thing going on 18(or older). Indeed, he sees her three times while on the road and picks her up, and she's full of spunk. And when Booth and 'Pussycat' arrive on the set, both are met with people who seem warm and friendly. (Even Lena Dunham seems kindly and likable at first.) And Booth and Tex's first impressions of each other are rather favorable.
    Things get unnerving when Booth inquires about Spahn, and we are led to expect the worst(because we know something about the Mansons). This rise in suspense owes both to methods taken from Hitchcock(esp in PSYCHO with the house) and Leone. In ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST, Frank(Fonda)'s men wait or stand around like soulless 'zombie-like' killers.

    Anyway, it's effective the Tarantino did it. Given what we know of the 1969 murders, he could have presented Manson kids as monsters from get-go, but he first shows us their humanity or at least humanness. That's why it becomes all the more sickly when such harmless-seeming or even sociable kids could act as such monsters. It's like Hitchcock introduced Norman Bates as just some nice friendly guy and only by increments revealed the darker side lurking beneath.

    Note, however, how the film has them switching targets….Instead of killing “New Hollywood” types, they go after a symbol of ’50s Hollywood, the star of a “cowboy tv show”…..WOKEsters purging American culture of the things…and people…that are not ideologically correct….
     
    But the Mansons really did target New Hollywood. And by the time the violence happens at the end, Dalton has effectively joined New Hollywood. He did the hippie-cowboy thing, he went to Italy and did cool-nihilistic Westerns, and he returns to Hollywood as a hipper character open to new ventures. Also, in the opening part of the movie, his spirits rebound on the hope that New Hollywood Roman Polanski might invite him to a party and offer him a role.
    Another thing, and this is the oddest thing in the movie. Even though we are told Dalton's Western debuted in 50s TV, they seem so spaghetti-ish. My understanding is that TV Westerns, esp of 50s, were pretty moralistic, more about characters and good-vs-bad than style and badass cool. Also, it was the Sphaghettis that turned bounty hunters into cool (anti)heroes. In the American Western tradition, the bounty hunter was seen as lowly for he killed for blood money instead of justice(a moral matter) or vengeance(a personal matter). So, even his stint with 'classic' TV Western wasn't exactly traditional. Also, the great irony is that the TV Western went a long way to kill the Western. When Americans could access the Wild West every night in their living room, the genre lost its mythic aura that had once been tied to the silver screen. The endless crime shows on TV also undermined the mystique of the noir.

    At the very end, when Dalton could have followed his friend to the hospital, be with his traumatized wife, or go see Sharon Tate & her hip friends, what does he do? He goes to the Tate Estate. He's essentially is a self-centered careerist than a symbol of Old Traditional Values or some such. In a way, he didn't deserve a friend like Booth, but Booth didn't mind because Dalton was his meal ticket in an industry that, in more ways than one, had half-blacklisted him for his reputation about the wife. (If he did murder his wife, there is darkness in his soul too. But being an individualist, he keeps it to himself than joining a cult.)
  66. @The Wild Geese Howard
    @J.Ross


    ...the loss of Orion...
     
    Orion gave us a lot of great stuff in their day:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_Pictures#Notable_films

    ...you never thought that the Golan-Globus Azathoth was a high water mark for creativity in Hollywood...
     
    Mostly schlock, but they had their moments:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Cannon_Group_films

    Particular standouts were 1986's Firewalker with Chuck Norris and Lou Gossett, Jr., the American Ninja franchise, and the endlessly rewatchable, so bad it's good, Bloodsport!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNibi-NWW4o

    Replies: @Servant of Gla'aki

    …and the endlessly rewatchable, so bad it’s good, Bloodsport!

    Ah yes, the Kumite. I’d almost forgotten about that.

  67. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux
    @Anonymous


    In contrast, the ‘hippies’ in the movie seem to have settled into Spahn’s ranch with the old man’s blessing,
     
    Taking over an old Western movie ranch....WOKE-America vs Cowboy America.....Note, too, how the scenes at the ranch are full of menace.....Almost zombie horror, QT's version of a Romero movie...

    and moreover, they go after the Hollywood rich. Do woke people go after the Hollywood rich? Okay, there’s Harvey Weinstein, but he’s under assault from those in the industry. Or take Depp vs Amber Heard. It’s celeb vs celeb.
     
    Note, however, how the film has them switching targets....Instead of killing "New Hollywood" types, they go after a symbol of '50s Hollywood, the star of a "cowboy tv show".....WOKEsters purging American culture of the things...and people...that are not ideologically correct....

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Taking over an old Western movie ranch….WOKE-America vs Cowboy America…..Note, too, how the scenes at the ranch are full of menace…..Almost zombie horror, QT’s version of a Romero movie…

    But with the approval of George Spahn. Is Spahn bored and welcomes the company? Is he suffering from Alzheimers? Did the Mansonites feed him some drugs that fried his mind? We don’t know, but the fact is the ‘hippies’ are there with Spahn’s permission. Booth’s suspicion proved to be false, even though, in a way, they are taking advantage of the old man(who might as well be Joe Biden).

    In a way, the ‘hippies’ seem zombie-like and vampiric, but they are also cowboy-like. They’ve returned to nature and live a rather neo-primitive lifestyle. One of the fellers is Tex, indeed from Texas no less, and he is quite good with the horses. Indeed, it seems some of the kids there make extra money by offering horsey ride tours. There was an element of the Western to the counterculture. EASY RIDER was like a neo-western that took the themes of LONELY ARE THE BRAVE and COOL HAND LUKE even further. (Peckinpah’s PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID and Peter Fonda’s HIRED HAND were essentially counterculture Westerns.) All these fences and regulations, the loss of frontier America. Of course, one difference is cowboys of old had to be tough and responsible whereas hippies were the result of excess prosperity. Hippies were playing cowboys(and Indians) without the burden of responsibility that was part and parcel of both worlds.

    As for their zombie-like-ness, it owes much to Sergio Leone(and even to traditional Westerns). In the Western, some stranger rides into town, and there’s lots of anxiety and apprehension. People dare not make the wrong move or say the wrong thing lest things get out of hand and guns fire. Indeed, the scene with the ‘businessman’ and Lancer in the TV show is rather like Booth vs Squeaky at the ranch. A test of wills. When Lancer rides into town, there is silence. DeCouteau(Dalton), being a tough guy himself, eats chicken and says his piece, but most people are silent. They laugh only when the ‘businessman’ signals he can easily take out the newcomer. But then, the guns fire, and the ‘businessman’ is killed, and there is nervous silence among the onlookers. This aspect of the Western was further amplified by Leone where the silences last longer, and anxiety level rises higher. There are scenes in ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST where you could hear the pin drop(if not for the wind) because everyone’s on the razor’s edge… like when Cheyenne(Robards) barges into the tavern/trading-post and makes everyone nervous.

    Also, the ‘hippies’ are not always ‘zombie-like’. They are introduced in a sunny way, gleaning from a shopping mart trash dump in a scene that seems inspired from opening of AMERICAN HONEY(by Andrea Arnold). Also, Booth takes an instant-liking to one of the girls, a cute little thing going on 18(or older). Indeed, he sees her three times while on the road and picks her up, and she’s full of spunk. And when Booth and ‘Pussycat’ arrive on the set, both are met with people who seem warm and friendly. (Even Lena Dunham seems kindly and likable at first.) And Booth and Tex’s first impressions of each other are rather favorable.
    Things get unnerving when Booth inquires about Spahn, and we are led to expect the worst(because we know something about the Mansons). This rise in suspense owes both to methods taken from Hitchcock(esp in PSYCHO with the house) and Leone. In ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST, Frank(Fonda)’s men wait or stand around like soulless ‘zombie-like’ killers.

    Anyway, it’s effective the Tarantino did it. Given what we know of the 1969 murders, he could have presented Manson kids as monsters from get-go, but he first shows us their humanity or at least humanness. That’s why it becomes all the more sickly when such harmless-seeming or even sociable kids could act as such monsters. It’s like Hitchcock introduced Norman Bates as just some nice friendly guy and only by increments revealed the darker side lurking beneath.

    Note, however, how the film has them switching targets….Instead of killing “New Hollywood” types, they go after a symbol of ’50s Hollywood, the star of a “cowboy tv show”…..WOKEsters purging American culture of the things…and people…that are not ideologically correct….

    But the Mansons really did target New Hollywood. And by the time the violence happens at the end, Dalton has effectively joined New Hollywood. He did the hippie-cowboy thing, he went to Italy and did cool-nihilistic Westerns, and he returns to Hollywood as a hipper character open to new ventures. Also, in the opening part of the movie, his spirits rebound on the hope that New Hollywood Roman Polanski might invite him to a party and offer him a role.
    Another thing, and this is the oddest thing in the movie. Even though we are told Dalton’s Western debuted in 50s TV, they seem so spaghetti-ish. My understanding is that TV Westerns, esp of 50s, were pretty moralistic, more about characters and good-vs-bad than style and badass cool. Also, it was the Sphaghettis that turned bounty hunters into cool (anti)heroes. In the American Western tradition, the bounty hunter was seen as lowly for he killed for blood money instead of justice(a moral matter) or vengeance(a personal matter). So, even his stint with ‘classic’ TV Western wasn’t exactly traditional. Also, the great irony is that the TV Western went a long way to kill the Western. When Americans could access the Wild West every night in their living room, the genre lost its mythic aura that had once been tied to the silver screen. The endless crime shows on TV also undermined the mystique of the noir.

    At the very end, when Dalton could have followed his friend to the hospital, be with his traumatized wife, or go see Sharon Tate & her hip friends, what does he do? He goes to the Tate Estate. He’s essentially is a self-centered careerist than a symbol of Old Traditional Values or some such. In a way, he didn’t deserve a friend like Booth, but Booth didn’t mind because Dalton was his meal ticket in an industry that, in more ways than one, had half-blacklisted him for his reputation about the wife. (If he did murder his wife, there is darkness in his soul too. But being an individualist, he keeps it to himself than joining a cult.)

  68. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux
    @Anonymous


    Also, the reason why the ‘himbies’ decided to go after Dalton is due to class angst. Dalton shouts at them, “YOU DON’T BELONG HERE.” Dalton, whose feared losing everything with a sinking career, had a bounce/comeback of sorts, and he pulls class rank on the ‘himbies’.
     
    The reason why they go after Dalton and Co is because the dark-haired WOKE-Hippy has worked out an ideological reason for why they should kill the star of an old "cowboy tv show"....

    Also, most hippies were happy bunch of ne’er-do-wells, not like the Manson monsters. So, the movie is really about ‘hippies’ than real hippies. Or they’re more like himbies, or hippy-zombies.

     

    Or maybe Antifa goons....Note, too, how the female Mansonites are depicted as the carriers of WOKE ideology.....Servitors of Chairman Charlie....

    And another thing. Even though Dalton and Booth talk shit about ‘hippies’, Dalton’s finest moment and comeback had to do with him going ‘hippie’ or ‘hells angel’ as the heavy.
     
    And was very uncomfortable with the whole business ("1869 meets 1969!")Old America vs Hippy-WOKE America. How far can Old America go before she loses her soul....

    That change-of-tune dug out something from within. And Booth has the most epic moment of his life by dropping/smoking acid and fighting with psychedelic fury.
     
    Nah. The acid was meant to impair Cliff's fighting prowess. Without it, the scene would have been completely lacking in suspense.

    It’s further ironic that he would dump on the ‘himbies’ when he’s been supported by a low-class stunt-man all these years… who by the way is cast aside when he’s no longer useful to Dalton.
     
    And there's the actual symbolism in the film. Cliff (the man who fought in WW2 and does the dangerous stunts that Rick can't/won't do) is traditional White America, not the parasitic Hippies...

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The reason why they go after Dalton and Co is because the dark-haired WOKE-Hippy has worked out an ideological reason for why they should kill the star of an old “cowboy tv show”….

    And those ‘ideological’ reasons have much to do with class. Hollywood people are rich, the Mansonites are not. Also, while Hollywood people intrude into the living rooms of all Americans via TV shows, movies, and advertising, they live in their own gated community that says NO TRESPASSING to most Americans. Also, the girl’s ‘moral’ logic isn’t really ‘woke’. Actually, it’s rather insightful(though hardly justification for killing anyone), the kind of brainstorm that Tarantino himself has been known for, like the stuff about TOP GUN being ‘gay’. There is a kernel of truth to what she says. Hollywood has been serving up lots of violence as entertainment with thin veneer of moralism, a theme pursued by Clint Eastwood in UNFORGIVEN. Hollywood knows people are attracted to violence and serve up lots of it, but violence-as-violence is rather too crude and ugly, and so, the violence is justified as sham morality tales. Take Dalton in the movie FIFTY FIREBALLS AT EVIL NAZIS. Sure, there is ostensibly a good-guy vs bad guys angle, but the main attraction is outrageous violence. And Dalton and Booth seem to eager to watch Dalton’s role as heavy in FBI where he takes a shotgun to men of the law. That Dalton is playing the bad guy(as opposed to good guy in the Nazi-burning movie) is almost immaterial. Dalton is proud to be a badass killer on the screen. On that grounds, so many violent movies and TV shows have been sensationalizing and exploiting violence(and the animal side of human nature). It fed this slop to the masses and got rich off it. The girl’s idea is to make the logic go full circle. Hollywood promotes violence, so let the junkies of TV and movies take the violence back to Hollywood. Now, no sane person can endorse such an idea, but there is a kind of loopy moral logic to it. I’d be more impressed with ‘woke’ people if they showed even the slightest bit of logic to their argument.

    And was very uncomfortable with the whole business (“1869 meets 1969!”)Old America vs Hippy-WOKE America. How far can Old America go before she loses her soul….

    And yet, it’s Dalton’s finest moment. He knows it, the director knows it, and the precocious little girl knows it. In earlier roles, he just had to play cardboard characters, but as DeCouteau, he really had to some soul-searching and dig something out from within. He has to go ‘method’, he has to be ‘sexy hamlet’. The ‘hippie’ aspect forces him to be more authentic.
    Also, in some ways, the Old West of American Westerns was a myth. The real West was far messier, bloodier, crazier, and even demented than the vision offered by the classic movie/TV western that relied on rather neat genre formulas. The counterculture’s impact on the culture did lead to a reevaluation of the Western that paved the way for Westerns like THE WILD BUNCH and MCCABE AND MRS MILLER, oddly a work that is both most romanticist and most realist.

    Nah. The acid was meant to impair Cliff’s fighting prowess. Without it, the scene would have been completely lacking in suspense.

    But it also helps him. It makes him bolder and more daring as he faces Tex. His craziness slows down Tex who is perplexed in encountering someone so ‘crazy’. Also, had he not been tripping, he would fed his dog sooner and then the dog would not have been ideally situated on the couch(waiting for her food) to pounce on Tex. The element of chance is one of the big themes of the movie, and chance was on Booth’s side because he was filling different under the influence.

    And there’s the actual symbolism in the film. Cliff (the man who fought in WW2 and does the dangerous stunts that Rick can’t/won’t do) is traditional White America, not the parasitic Hippies…

    But hasn’t Booth also been a man who took other people’s order all his life? In the military, he killed because he was told to kill. And though supportive of Dalton, he too is ‘parasitic’ in that he would be nothing without association with the Industry, however tenuous. (Indeed, in the flashback within the flashback, we see Booth’s wife tear into him as a useless ‘loser’ and bum.) There’s a Dylan song, “You gotta serves somebody”, and in this the ‘hippies’ and Booth have something in common. They feel a need to serve somebody. The ‘hippies’ serve Manson, and Booth serves Dalton. This isn’t to say Dalton = Manson or Booth = ‘hippies’ — Dalton and Booth are much better — , but one bunch is the flipside of the other.

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