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“African refugees sit on the ground behind a border fence after they attempted to cross illegally from Egypt into Israel as Israeli soldiers stand guard near the border with Egypt, in southern Israel, Tuesday, Sept. 4, 2012. (AP Photo/Ariel Schalit)”

From Voz Iz Neias (Yiddish for “What’s News?”), September 5, 2012:

Jerusalem – Israel is refusing to allow entry to a small group of African migrants huddled at a desert border fence with Egypt, officials said Wednesday, underscoring a toughened entry policy.

The Eritrean group appeared to number a dozen, including two women and a teenager, according to activists and an AP photographer who was at the site Tuesday.

They were crowded beside Israel’s new border fence, shaded by blue-striped plastic they hoisted above themselves. …

Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai said they will not be allowed in, because that would encourage more African migrants to make the trip.

“If there were no fence there, and we were not determined (to stop the influx of migrants), then that number would become 1 million people,” he said.

Israel has almost completed a barrier along 200 kilometers (125 miles) of its border with Egypt to block African migrants and militants from the lawless Sinai.

Officials have also expanded the capacity of detention centers to ensure those entering are immediately held, said Cohen of the rights group.

Also, that’s some heavy duty heat the Israeli border guards are packing:

Screenshot 2014-06-21 20.05.52

 
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  1. Huddled masses for thee, but not for me.

  2. I am in favor of adopting either the border control policy of a) Israel, or b) Mexico. My deep humanitarian instinct says, “Go with Israel.” My “locapolitical” instinct (think “locavore”) says “Go with Mexico.” It’s a dilemma!

  3. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    You would think that a Department of Defense would be able to, you know, defend the borders of a country. In particular one with the most powerful military the world has known and the biggest budget. But you’d think wrong.

    (It’s okay guys, the Cold War is over, you don’t have to be developing/buying potential proto-proxy factions in every county of the world. That Chalabi strategy is so past its spoil date.)

  4. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Huddled masses for thee, but not for me.”

    The Israeli government is not behind the disastrous de facto open borders policies the US government has been following in recent years. There is no reason to blame Israel for the sins of some of its American supporters (many of whom only pretend to support Israel, i.e., every Democrat in Congress).

    Bashing Israel might feel good to some, but it is not going to defeat the US treason lobby. A better idea is to learn from Israel’s sensible immigration policies (which its Stalinist, self-selected Supreme Court is doing its best to defeat).

  5. It definitely is a border fence. Notice that Israel did not first ask the UN or the first worlders “Gee, guys, do you think its okay if we go ahead and build this border around our land? It might tick off our neighbors and make us look not very inclusive, tolerant, caring, and to say nothing of quashing long term diversity.”

    Very very tactful of the NYT to not publish this article or really, very many articles about Israel even having a border fence.

    Wonder why that is? Wonder why the NYT and most US media seldom gets on Israel’s case for even having a border fence and actually enforcing its own style of border patrol.

    Why is that?

    Anyone?

    Is THAT showing the world that they are inclusive? It does not look as if Israel is pro-immigration. IT does not look as if they want every 3rd worlder from Africa and other parts unknown to make a trek to their country and just….you know….come in, have tons of babies and then…become instant citizens.

    Shame on you Israel, shame! Putting national interests ahead of world diversity!

    Tisk, tisk, tisk!

    I’m sure if we all write to the NYT and ask them real politely that they would definitely, definitely take the desert nation to task and tisk them as well, seriously admonishing them to follow good leftist policies of putting the world’s tired, huddled masses longing to be free, ahead of their narrow minded interests.

    Tisk!

  6. Sorry Steve, but you show me a 20 foot tall fence and I’ll show you a 21 foot ladder.

    Obviously it’ll be just a short while before these African immigrants start lugging 20 foot tall ladders through the hot, expansive desert and climbing their ladders into Israel. Then what are those Israeli border guards going to do?

    Israel is clearly wasting its money. Unlike our astute politicians, who’ve wisely invested in policies like regime change in Iraq, which (by the way) continues to pay dividends.

  7. You know what I think Israel needs? A statue! A big damned statue with a poem written by a charming Jewess right at the base.

    I love love love Israel, and that’s exactly what it needs. Who’s in?

  8. Steve,

    An idea for a future post: About 8 years ago, in response to grass roots pressure, the federal government agreed to a bunch of (half) measures to secure the border. What’s the status of each of them?

    For example, I recall actual fencing was to be built on stretches of the border with Mexico, and a “virtual” fence along other parts. Whatever happened with that?

  9. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    To gauge the effectiveness of the Isreali strategy, just look what’s going on in Italy at the moment.
    Boatload after boatload, something like 50,000 so-called ‘refugees’ already this year – and the numbers accelerate, exponentially year after year with absolutely no end or limit in sight. What’s more since a self-inflicted and massively publicized sinking with heavy loss of life last year, the Italian navy has the ‘courtesy’ of picking up the boats, all boats, and giving the ‘refugees’ a luxury, escorted, safe trip ‘home’ to Italy, and once on Italian soil, you can bet your boots that they stay in the EU for good and are each personally responsible for a chain multiple of around 10 or so.

    Italy which was more or less Italian as recently as 1990 will soon be even more ‘hyper-diverse’ that Blair’s Britain in a very short time. Knowing the Italian character as I do, I doubt that this will end well. Of course the EU imnsion is also extremely worrying since Italian citizenship will enable these ‘refugees’ to impose themselves on any EU state, which in practice means the UK or Germany. Also expect Poland and the rest of central Europe EU states to have ‘refugee’ quotas imposed on them on high by the EU. The EU is a faustian bargain.
    In order to save itself, the UK must leave the EU righ now. Damn the consequences.

  10. What’s with the sudden nostalgia for old news, Steve?

    Also, that’s some heavy duty heat the Israeli border guards are packing

    They appear to be equipped with Tavors, the standard-issue IDF assault rifle.

    come in, have tons of babies and then…become instant citizens.

    That’s not how Israeli citizenship law works.

  11. Rob says:

    You know what I think Israel needs? A statue! A big damned statue with a poem written by a charming Jewess right at the base.

    [Emma Lazarus] is an important forerunner of the Zionist movement. She argued for the creation of a Jewish homeland thirteen years before Theodor Herzl began to use the term Zionism.

  12. A few extra points regarding the situation depicted in this article:

    1. “Human rights” organization in Israel (read: anti-zionist, far left, pro massive immigration into Israel and other western nations) appealed to the Supreme Court to allow these migrants in.

    2. The court, much to the astonishment of many, actually agreed to hear the case. They proceeded to split hairs on whether these people were already in Israeli territory, as the border fence cannot be built precisely on the border (no border fence is), since it would preclude one’s ability to maintain it on both sides.

    The point these sinister organizations attempted to make is that these people were now in Israel, border fence notwithstanding, and so deserved to be recognized as refugees. In essence, they wished to make the fence irrelevant.

    3. In the end, I believe that 3 of the migrants were allowed in and the rest turned back.

    4. In general, Israel has offered the illegal immigrants money to leave, and thousands have. It is also the policy that they (apart from small numbers) will not be settled, allowed to work freely, and so on. This is intended to discourage more from coming (and millions will come, if this were not the policy). After all, even the NYT, in a moment of rare lucidity, has acknowledged that amnesty has encouraged more illegal immigration, and it’s no doubt that Obama’s policies have brought about the current surge in young illegals pouring into Texas.

    There have been cases of people crossing the fence with ladders. For that you need a strong and strict policy for illegals already in your country to dissuade others from making the trip.

    5. The soldiers are not packing “serious heat”. These are standard weapons which infantry and border patrol soldiers carry.

    As for the insinuations as to our complicity in US or European immigration policies, that is absurd. Some pro-Israel Americans and Europeans may favor it, as many progressives do (and rich people on the left and right), but I, and none of my acquaintances do. We view it as none of our business. Do what you will with your borders and have whatever immigration policy you wish to have. I for one do not understand why you simply do not enforce your current immigration laws and why you have a perforated southern border. It is quite clear that your politicians simply do not wish to solve the problem.

  13. “come in, have tons of babies and then…become instant citizens.”

    That’s not how Israeli citizenship law works.

    Indeed not, Israel is defended in-depth. Physically difficult to enter, easy deportation, no path-to-citizenship nonsense.

  14. ” I for one do not understand why you simply do not enforce your current immigration laws and why you have a perforated southern border. It is quite clear that your politicians simply do not wish to solve the problem.”

    We have two parties. The party on the right wants the cheap labor, the party on the left wants the poor people’s votes.

    As for you getting blamed: antisemites believe Jews everywhere act in concert. The idea that liberal American Jews have a completely different set of ideas in their heads from right-wing Israeli Jews is a little difficult for them to comprehend.

    Unfortunately, the prominence of liberal American Jews means they have plenty to complain about over here. But they won’t admit (on the right) that their precious businessmen are selling the country down the river, or (on the left) that immigrants cost jobs.

  15. fnn says:

    It is quite clear that your politicians simply do not wish to solve the problem.

    They’re closer to being your politicians than our politicians. See this Dutch documentary on the Israel lobby in the US:

    Part of this is that the US is a commercial empire, not a nation, and the traditional majority population of the continental US is seen as replaceable and therefore its fate is of little concern to the ruling elites.

  16. After all, even the NYT, in a moment of rare lucidity, has acknowledged that amnesty has encouraged more illegal immigration. . .

    Of course, they’ve subsequently renounced that position. Not explicitly, of course. They just pretend they never held it. Just like Harry Reid, who in 1993 made a perfectly lucid argument against the idiocy of birthright citizenship: “If making it easy to be an illegal alien wasn`t enough, how about offering a reward for being an illegal immigrant? No sane country would do that. Right? Guess again! If you break our laws by entering this country without permission and give birth to a child, we reward that child with US citizenship.”

    BTW, if a contest were held for the national politician with the least integrity, Harry Reid would have to be a strong contender.

  17. WhatEvvs [AKA "Cookies"] says:

    @An Israeli,

    “In general, Israel has offered the illegal immigrants money to leave, and thousands have”

    Just curious – where do they go?

    “As for the insinuations as to our complicity in US or European immigration policies, that is absurd”

    It is absurd, and I would like to explain this linkage, since you are not familiar with the undeclared civil war going on in the US right now. I’m Jewish, and I read this blog for one reason only – because Sailer honestly addresses the two big taboos in US society: immigration and race. (I also like his stuff on sex differences, but that really isn’t a taboo, it’s merely a controversy. You can talk about sex differences and have your life destroyed. Talk about race or immigration, and you are a dead man walking.)

    This is something that must be stressed – honest talk about immigration and race is EXPLICITLY FORBIDDEN in the United States. Sorry for the all caps, but it’s nearly impossible to explain this to an Israeli, because you live in a freer society than we do, in essential ways. The US is for all intents and purposes a totalitarian state. In the respectable newspapers, on TV, we are not only not allowed to discuss racial differences & immigration – we are subjected to a virtual barrage of outrageous propaganda, totally at variance to the facts and to what most Americans really think. The vast majority of us are what they used to call internal dissidents back in the USSR. I do not think I exaggerate.

    For example: the other day I was watching a news show on the so-called Public Broadcasting System (actually government controlled rubbish, but informative as to the mind set of the ruling class). It was about “children” who were “braving” the border crossing in the thousands….I nearly threw up. I turned it off. This is everywhere. There is no dissent.

    So what does Israel have to do with this? Nothing, except that the public face of the US Jewish community has been a huge pain in the ass about this. They are unanimously and noisily pro-Israel, but also pro-immigration and pro-illegal. Well, you say, what’s that got to do with us? The US Jews are crazy, not us.

    I agree with you, but let’s be honest: that’s not the way the world works, is it? Average Americans who are honestly frustrated with immigration will see how the organized US Jewish community behaves on immigration, and they are going to call them on their phoniness about this. Sheldon Adelson is the most horrible example of this phoniness.

    I frankly think that Sailer regularly slides into outright Jew-baiting, but whatever…you gotta take the bad with the good, I guess. I am alarmed. I think the US is abolishing itself, I’m angry, and politics makes strange bedfellows.

    As to why we Americans allow this to go on – this would take a book to explain, but in short: we are controlled by corporate capitalism. That is not conspiracy talk. It’s fact. Going against this is very tough. You lose your job in the US, it’s like being exiled to Siberia back in the USSR. Extra point: corporate capitalism has now signed onto gay rights bigtime (what Steve calls World War T and World War G). Yep – disagree with the idea that kids need a mother and a father, or that a man who has cut his penis off, puts on lipstick, and calls himself a woman is a woman, and YOU are the one who loses his job and hits skid row.

    See what I mean? It’s truly enough to drive a sane man mad, and the organized Jewish community supports this insanity. Do you notice historical echoes in any of this? I do.

    Hope this helps.

  18. “You can talk about sex differences and have your life destroyed” –

    sorry for PS, but I meant to write, “You can talk about sex differences and not have your life destroyed.”

  19. “Huddled masses for thee, but not for me.”

    The Israeli government is not behind the disastrous de facto open borders policies the US government has been following in recent years.

    The Israeli gov’t is BFF with American Jewry. American Jewry is behind the disastrous de facto open borders policies the gov’t has been following in recent memory.

    There is no reason to blame Israel for the sins of some of its American supporters (many of whom only pretend to support Israel, i.e., every Democrat in Congress).

    Poor Israel! Every Democrat in Congress only pretends to support Israel. And votes in Israel’s favor every time.

    When I see Bob doing doughnuts in my back yard in his 4×4 every night, and plowing through any fence I try to build, then I see he’s best friends with Tom, and helping Tom keep his fences and yard in pristine condition, and I ask Tom about it and he says “no comment” every time, uh, yeah, I’m gonna resent Tom, too. In fact, I’m going to see Bob & Tom as the collective enemy.

    Bashing Israel might feel good to some, but it is not going to defeat the US treason lobby.

    Nobody was bashing or blaming Israel, btw. I did, after you tried to hang a lampshade on it, but the blame was going to American Jewry, not Israel.

    A better idea is to learn from Israel’s sensible immigration policies (which its Stalinist, self-selected Supreme Court is doing its best to defeat).

    Doesn’t look like Israel’s Supreme Court’s best amounts to much. Funny how that works.

    The second an American pol tries to “learn from Israel’s example,” American Jewry will dogpile him.

  20. Priss Factor [AKA "Cloudcastler"] says:

    Israel is a Jewish nation run by Jews for the Jews.

    US is a gentile nation run by Jews for the Jews.

    If Israel were 2% Turkish and if Turkish-Israelis had control over Israel institutions like Jews have control over elite institutions in America, things would be very different there.

  21. Sorry Steve, but you show me a 20 foot tall fence and I’ll show you a 21 foot ladder.

    The great thing about a 20′ fence and 21′ ladder is that they establish mens rea pretty clearly. “I dint do nuffin, why he shot me?” is much more plausible when folks can just stroll in.

    [Emma Lazarus] is an important forerunner of the Zionist movement. She argued for the creation of a Jewish homeland thirteen years before Theodor Herzl began to use the term Zionism.

    So, Emma Lazarus supports free immigration to Israel. Meaning, the Statue of Liberty supports free immigration to Israel.

    Meaning, the United States of America supports free immigration to Israel.

    USA! USA! USA!

    5. The soldiers are not packing “serious heat”. These are standard weapons which infantry and border patrol soldiers carry.

    You have to understand that to an American, a border guard with any weapon is packing serious heat, and a border guard with a select-fire weapon is packing seriously serious heat.

    As for the insinuations as to our complicity in US or European immigration policies, that is absurd. Some pro-Israel Americans and Europeans may favor it, as many progressives do (and rich people on the left and right), but I, and none of my acquaintances do. We view it as none of our business. Do what you will with your borders and have whatever immigration policy you wish to have. I for one do not understand why you simply do not enforce your current immigration laws and why you have a perforated southern border. It is quite clear that your politicians simply do not wish to solve the problem.

    C’mon, man. American Jewry’s your BFF. You got nothing to do with what they’re up to? I take it you never complain about anyone who turned away Jews fleeing the Holocaust, said of the Holocaust, “not our business,” (how does Israeli history treat Vichy France) etc? (Just yesterday I was reading something by some Jew talking about all the “ANTI-SEMITES” in the FN, and how that follows because there are/were lots of former Vichy types in the FN). Germans who looked the other way in during the 3rd Reich’s tenure are okay in your book?

    Is moral consistency too much to expect from Jews?

  22. “Also, that’s some heavy duty heat the Israeli border guards are packing:”

    IHTG is right, the guy on the left definitely has a Tavor, comparable to the American M4 and using the same NATO 5.56 cartridge.

  23. I believe this is an old story. But in any event the fence works very well and actually traverses terrain very similar to that of the American Southwest. But it should be pointed out: not only would Israel not care if America adopted the tough Israeli policy – they would want the US to adopt such a policy. Why? Because Israel wants high quality European Jews to emigrate to Israel, they do not want them to go to the US. The guy who just sold WhatsApp was an ex-Soviet Jew immigrant to the US. Sergey Brin the founder of Google was an ex-Soviet Jew immigrant to the US. The 1 million European Jews left in Europe, who probably don’t have a great future there, are a well educated, cultured, high IQ population. Israel wants them absolutely.

  24. Ed says:

    The Spaniards recently put up some new type of mesh fencing on the border between their African territory of Melilla and Morocco. It seems to work, 1000 African migrants stormed the fence but none made it over. Before several hundred were able to get into the territory by storming fences.

    Although it should be noted the recent “humanitarian” crisis on our southern border is more about our immigration/refugee laws than border enforcement. These people are not evading law enforcement they are turning themselves into them.

    http://news.yahoo.com/over-1-000-migrants-repelled-morocco-spain-border-140644904.html

  25. “Dave Pinsen says:
    June 22, 2014 at 1:10 am

    For example, I recall actual fencing was to be built on stretches of the border with Mexico, and a “virtual” fence along other parts. Whatever happened with that?”

    I think the actual parts turned out to be virtual, and the virtual parts turned out to be non-existent.

  26. “IHTG says:
    June 22, 2014 at 2:14 am

    What’s with the sudden nostalgia for old news, Steve?”

    Because it is still current news.

    “They appear to be equipped with Tavors, the standard-issue IDF assault rifle.”

    But they are there at the fence, guarding it. Not driving illegal entrants to group homes to begin their permanent residence in America, as ICE officers are now doing.

  27. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    As to why we Americans allow this to go on – this would take a book to explain, but in short: we are controlled by corporate capitalism.

    One elevator version is that back in the 60s the court system made it clear that the law of the land in these matters would be enforced at gun point, no matter how absurd or unrealistic the law became or how crazy the word-game needed to provide “the penumbra” (shadow) that made the law applicable. The power of the legal system is, for the most part, against any attempt by Americans to do anything about any of this. The justice system grabbed power and then become drunk with power.

    A lot of young radicals went into law back in the 60s and 70s with exactly the intent of grabbing such power. (See also the number of lawyers in the US, compared to elsewhere.)

  28. Israel is a Jewish nation run by Jews for the Jews.

    US is a gentile nation run by Jews for the Jews.

    Oversimplification aside, that’s how I think of White liberals vs. Jewish “liberals”; you can make a spurious case that they’re the same, but the differences are as profound as the small percentage of DNA separating humans and chimps.

    IHTG is right, the guy on the left definitely has a Tavor, comparable to the American (not used by border guards) M4 and using the same NATO 5.56 cartridge.

    FIFY.

    not only would Israel not care if America adopted the tough Israeli policy – they would want the US to adopt such a policy. Why? Because Israel wants high quality European Jews to emigrate to Israel, they do not want them to go to the US. The guy who just sold WhatsApp was an ex-Soviet Jew immigrant to the US. Sergey Brin the founder of Google was an ex-Soviet Jew immigrant to the US. The 1 million European Jews left in Europe, who probably don’t have a great future there, are a well educated, cultured, high IQ population. Israel wants them absolutely.

    Yeah, and if America had built a border fence, Brin definitely would have had to hop a Mexican ship to Israel.

    WTF?

  29. The reason Israel still has a border and the US des not is that Muslims wish to kill Jewish women and kids along with Jewish men. This makes the Whire US female strategy of joining the anti White guy coalition a non starter. Also Israel is to small to insulate itself for the elite.

    Military survival trumps oligarch cheap labor and womens anti White guy views.

    Israels Supreme Court jailed a President iirc. So yes it will likely make the fence be torn down. Even Israel is not immune to pc or diversity which is the hatred of White women for their men for nit being sexy dominant enough. Given the ahole nature of Israeli men this should give us pause.

  30. To Svigor: Israelis don’t know or care what US immigration policy is, except they don’t want it to be open – they want the Jews. And yes, exactly right, Brin’s father left the Soviet Union due to antisemitism and only two nations were open to him: Israel and the US. Brin was six at the time. Israel wants Jews exactly like that. Your comment about Mexico? WTF? Not the point. If America was not open, Israel is where they would have to be. In any event, thanks to birthrates, Israel is where they are going to be born in the next 40 years anyway. Israel gets stronger and richer consequently. Israel is more than happy for the world to turn away Ashkenazi Jews. They want them.

  31. Big Bill [AKA "Teddy Herzl"] says:

    Now, now. No thumb-sucking and pretend hurt feelings: “Oy! The goyim they want to kill us everywhere!” Nope, we honor and respect the Jewish Nation in its efforts to preserve its own homeland race-pure and maintain eternal Jewish hegemony over the Holy Land. God bless those Jewish soldiers on the border keeping the goyim out. Don’t change a thing in Israel!

    You see, so many American Jews talk about their Jewish religious duty to open American borders to all and sundry: to “welcome the stranger” (as Jewish scripture require). I turn to their other Jewish scriptures and say that God wants us Goyim to follow Jewish moral leadership–Jews are a “Light unto The Nations”–and point to Israel as my moral example: high border fences, desert concentration camps, no marriage permitted without proper breeding records, etc.

    So you Israelis keep those border fences high! Continue to be a moral leader to The Nations and I will keep getting the word out to … umm … “recalcitrant” Jews in America. We are all on the same team here!

    PS: America has hundreds of thousands of Yordim. These poor exiles really need to make Aliyah. Maybe we can cut a group deal on them as a start? What you do with them is your own affair.

  32. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “This is something that must be stressed – honest talk about immigration and race is EXPLICITLY FORBIDDEN in the United States. Sorry for the all caps, but it’s nearly impossible to explain this to an Israeli, because you live in a freer society than we do, in essential ways.”

    Try speaking to an Ashkenazi Israeli about the fact that the majority of the “Jews” in Israel are essentially unproductive brown people with IQ’s comparable to those of Mexicans .

  33. C’mon, man. American Jewry’s your BFF. You got nothing to do with what they’re up to?

    Could you explain how American Jews are being hypocritical when they want less legal and illegal immigration? Less immigration to America doesn’t mesh with their pro-Zionism how?

    http://cis.org/ReligionAndImmigrationPoll

    In contrast to many religious leaders, most members think immigration is too high.

    Jews: 50 percent said it is too high; 5 percent said is too low; 22 percent just right.

    http://www.jta.org/news/article/2010/10/12/2741253/poll-jewish-support-for-obama-falling

    The survey asked its Jewish respondents: “A new law in Arizona gives police the power to ask people they’ve stopped to verify their residency status. Supporters say this will help crack down on illegal immigration. Opponents say it could violate civil rights and lead to racial profiling. On balance, do you support or oppose this law?”

    The result was a slim majority in favor of the law: 52 percent to 46 percent.

  34. You know what I think Israel needs? A statue! A big damned statue with a poem written by a charming Jewess right at the base.

    The poem was written in 1883 in an age when immigration was almost all European (except for a brief time when a relative handful of Chinese railroad workers were allowed in) and, when 20 years previously, the great race relations debate centered around whether blacks should remain slaves or be returned to Africa following their emancipation.

    In the proper historical context of white’s only immigration, the poem is a perfectly noble, patriotic one.

    It’s a shame that certain self-deceiving liars have been giving the impression pre-WWII Jews wanted non-white immigration:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_B._MacDonald#Academic_criticism

    MacDonald has particularly been accused by other academics of academic fraud, saying that he has promoted anti-Semitic propaganda under the guise of what he says is a legitimate and academic search for truth.[27] He has also been accused of misrepresenting the sources he uses in that regard. Fenris State University professor Dr. Barry Mehler cited for example a quote from a 1969 dissertation by Sheldon Morris Neuringer titled American Jewry and United States immigration policy, 1881-1953 where MacDonald surmised that when Neuringer noted Jewish opposition in 1921 and 1924 to the anti-immigration legislation at the time was due more to it having the “taint of discrimination and anti-Semitism” as opposed to how it would limit Jewish immigration, MacDonald wrote, “…Jewish opposition to the 1921 and 1924 legislation was motivated less by a desire for higher levels of Jewish immigration than by opposition to the implicit theory that America should be dominated by individuals with northern and western European ancestry.” “It seems to me Mr. MacDonald is misrepresenting Mr. Neuringer in this case and I posted my query hoping that a historian familiar with the literature might have a judgment on MacDonald’s use of the historical data,” Mehler wrote, citing other examples.[28]

    snip

    Lieberman has also written that MacDonald even dishonestly made up lines from the work of British Holocaust denier David Irving. Citing Irving’s Uprising which was published in 1981 for the twenty-fifth anniversary of Hungary’s failed anti-Communist revolution in 1956, MacDonald asserted in the Culture of Critique, “The domination of the Hungarian communist Jewish bureaucracy thus appears to have had overtones of sexual and reproductive domination of gentiles in which Jewish males were able to have disproportionate sexual access to gentile females.” Lieberman, who also noted that MacDonald is not a historian, debunked those assertions, concluding, “(T)he passage offers not a shred of evidence that, as MacDonald would have it, “Jewish males enjoyed disproportionate sexual access to gentile females.”[31]

  35. It ain’t an iSteve thread about jews and immigration if some jew doesn’t show up trying to Talmudically argue black into white to prove that its not “all jews, and that makes you 100% wrong!”

  36. Could you explain how American Jews are being hypocritical when they want less legal and illegal immigration? Less immigration to America doesn’t mesh with their pro-Zionism how?

    If your argument is that American Jewry’s leadership is going one way, and the rank and file are going another, then I’m sympathetic to that. But where do the leadership come from? Outer space? They were all rank and file at some point. Jews are much savvier than whites about getting what they want politically. They have a remarkable tendency to DIY if they don’t see what they want to see in politics. So, if the rank and file really wanted less immigration, I think they’d be doing something about it. Where’s the outcry? Look at Jewish bloggers. They seem to line up much like the Jewish political leadership. Speaking of, Jewish pols on our side are pretty rare. Even among the Republicans, Jews all seem to line up on the squishy open borders side of things. Jews are supposed to be so prominent, so dominant in all intellectual arenas. So where’s the Jewish vanguard on our side?

    I have trouble believing the shrinking violet Jewish rank and file thing.

    The survey asked its Jewish respondents: “A new law in Arizona gives police the power to ask people they’ve stopped to verify their residency status. Supporters say this will help crack down on illegal immigration. Opponents say it could violate civil rights and lead to racial profiling. On balance, do you support or oppose this law?”

    The result was a slim majority in favor of the law: 52 percent to 46 percent.

    So, a bare majority of Jews surveyed support the most tepid anti-immigration policies. If I knew how other demographics responded, it might mean something to me.

    citing other examples.[28]

    This one’s twice as sexy as the first time you posted it. My skirt’s up over my head now.

    Lieberman has also written that MacDonald even dishonestly made up lines from the work of British Holocaust denier David Irving. Citing Irving’s Uprising which was published in 1981 for the twenty-fifth anniversary of Hungary’s failed anti-Communist revolution in 1956, MacDonald asserted in the Culture of Critique, “The domination of the Hungarian communist Jewish bureaucracy thus appears to have had overtones of sexual and reproductive domination of gentiles in which Jewish males were able to have disproportionate sexual access to gentile females.”

    Where’s the part where MacDonald made up lines? He isn’t even quoting anyone.

    Lieberman, who also noted that MacDonald is not a historian

    This one always makes me snigger. Oohh, not an historian, burn!. Neither was Winston Churchill, but his works on history are taken seriously. It must really chap (some silly) historians’ asses that we don’t bow and scrape to their credentials. Hrumph! The temerity!

  37. Not to put too fine a point on it, but “he’s not an historian” is for the rubes.

  38. Religious Leaders vs. Members: An Examination of Contrasting Views on Immigration

    Catholics: Just 11 percent said illegal immigration was caused by not letting in enough legal immigrants; 78 percent said it was caused by inadequate enforcement efforts.
    Mainline Protestants: 18 percent said not enough legal immigration; 78 percent said inadequate enforcement.
    Born-Again Protestants: 9 percent said not enough legal immigration; 85 percent said inadequate enforcement.
    Jews: 21 percent said not enough legal immigration; 60 percent said inadequate enforcement.

    Catholics: 12 percent said legal immigration should be increased to fill such jobs; 69 percent said there are plenty of Americans available to do such jobs, employers just need to pay more.
    Mainline Protestants: 10 percent said increase immigration; 73 percent said plenty of Americans available.
    Born-Again Protestants: 7 percent said increase immigration; 75 percent said plenty of Americans available.
    Jews: 16 percent said increase immigration; 61 percent said plenty of Americans available.

    Catholics: 64 percent support enforcement to encourage illegals to go home; 23 percent support conditional legalization.
    Mainline Protestants: 64 percent support enforcement; 24 percent support conditional legalization.
    Born-Again Protestants: 76 percent support enforcement; 12 percent support conditional legalization.
    Jews: 43 percent support enforcement; 40 percent support conditional legalization.

    Catholics: 69 percent said immigration is too high; 4 percent said too low; 14 percent just right.
    Mainline Protestants: 72 percent said it is too high; 2 percent said too low; 11 percent just right.
    Born-Again Protestants: 78 percent said it is too high; 3 percent said too low; 9 percent just right.
    Jews: 50 percent said it is too high; 5 percent said is too low; 22 percent just right.

  39. I don’t understand why black Africans would want to live in Israel or Italy when they can live under black rule in an African country. Black rule is cool, right?

  40. It’s a shame that certain self-deceiving liars have been giving the impression pre-WWII Jews wanted non-white immigration

    How about post-WWII Jews? Does the same hold for them?

  41. In addition to Svigor’s excellent facts and others’ comments challenging the “Undiscovered Jew’s” rubbish, I’ll add a query. Totally aside from your smearing of Kevin MacDonald as a “self-deceiving liar,” why do you think it’s somehow “noble and patriotic” that the Jewish immigrants in the 1920s were opposed to limited immigration due “to the implicit theory that America should be dominated by individuals with northern and western European ancestry” ? That’s your great revelation? That their opposition to limiting immigration purportedly wasn’t that they wanted more Jewish immigrants, but that they opposed America limiting immigration from those not of its historic stock? Gee, I’m awed by your logic. It’s positively talmudic, I tell ya.

  42. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Those quotes about Kevin MacDonald prompted to me to do a google search (Jewish academics call him a liar. Well, duh!). He has a paper relating to Jewish involvement in immigration before WWII:

    “Jewish Involvement in Shaping American Immigration Policy, 1881-1965: A Historical Review”, Kevin MacDonald, 2002.

    The abstract:

    “This paper discusses Jewish involvement in shaping United States immigration policy. In addition to a periodic interest in fostering the immigration of co-religionists as a result of anti-Semitic movements, Jews have an interest in opposing the establishment of ethnically and culturally homogeneous societies in which they reside as minorities. Jews have been at the forefront in supporting movements aimed at altering the ethnic status quo in the United States in favor of immigration of non-European peoples. These activities have involved leadership in Congress, organizing and funding anti-restrictionist groups composed of Jews and gentiles, and originating intellectual movements opposed to evolutionary and biological perspectives in the social sciences.”

    A few random points he makes:

    “Pluralism serves internal Jewish interests because it legitimates the internal Jewish interest in rationalizing and openly advocating an interest in Jewish group commitment and non-assimilation, …

    …Beginning with Horace Kallen, Jewish intellectuals have been at the forefront in developing models of the United States as a culturally and ethnically pluralistic society.

    …Kallen’s idea of cultural pluralism as a model for America was popularized among gentile intellectuals by John Dewey… who in turn was promoted by Jewish intellectuals…

    …Thus in 1882 the Jewish press was unanimous in its condemnation of the Chinese Exclusion Act… even though this act had no direct bearing on Jewish immigration. … the AJCommittee… actively fought against any bill that restricted immigration to white persons or non-Asians, and only refrained from active opposition if it judged that AJCommittee support would threaten the immigration of Jews… In 1920 the Central Conference of American Rabbis passed a resolution urging that ‘the Nation … keep the gates of our beloved Republic open … to the oppressed and distressed of all mankind in conformity with its historic role as a haven of refuge for all men and women who pledge allegiance to its laws’…

    …What is truly remarkable is the tenacity with which Jewish ethnic interests were pursued for a period of close to 100 years…

    …Historically, ethnic separatism has been an extremely divisive force…. there are ethnically based conflicts on every continent… These results confirm the expectation that indeed ethnicity is important in human affairs.”

  43. Could you explain how American Jews are being hypocritical when they want less legal and illegal immigration?

    To answer the question, saying one thing and doing the opposite is the definition of hypocrisy, if I remember correctly. Which isn’t really fair to Jews, because aside from these polls you’re citing, they’re not really saying they want a pro-American immigration policy.

    You see, so many American Jews talk about their Jewish religious duty to open American borders to all and sundry: to “welcome the stranger” (as Jewish scripture require). I turn to their other Jewish scriptures and say that God wants us Goyim to follow Jewish moral leadership–Jews are a “Light unto The Nations”–and point to Israel as my moral example: high border fences, desert concentration camps, no marriage permitted without proper breeding records, etc.

    Actually, Jewish Scripture says that they must not harass the stranger. It’s basically just good business: “thou shalt not assault, rob, or murder strangers traveling in your lands when thou hast so very many salesmen traveling in theirs.”

    And it’s not just Jewish Scripture. It’s Christian Scripture, too. And it also says that the faithful shall not tolerate the practice of foreign religions. It says to smash their idols and temples, and to put the foreign cults to flight.

    Then there’s the part that says the faithful must elect rulers (appoint kings) from among their own kind (translations vary, but the meaning here is their own tribe, race, etc.), and not foreigners or aliens.

    The beautiful part of Christianity (from an ethnopatriot’s point of view) is that it’s built upon a very solid bedrock of Jewish racism.

    America has hundreds of thousands of Yordim.

    Per Wiki: “Emigrants from Israel are known as yordim (“those who go down [from Israel]”). Immigrants to Israel are known as olim (“those who go up [to Israel]”).”

    Man, gotta love Jews (not kidding here). I’m gonna go way out on a limb and say that “up” and “down” aren’t geographical references.

    (Jewish academics call him a liar. Well, duh!).

    That’s not fair. I’m sure if I checked I’d find a few of their “Gentile” lapdogs calling MacDonald a liar, too.

  44. I don’t get how you’re pinning the immigration treason lobby on Jews.

    It’s like anything you don’t like, is somehow, secretly, because of the Jews.

    I can follow you HBD dissenters down most rabbit holes, including down some valid critiques of Jewish politics in America, but how are they the cause of this one? Please explain it to me like I’m five.

    So far this is the least oblique article that I’ve gleaned from the thread, from Svigor.

    “Jews are much savvier than whites about getting what they want politically. They have a remarkable tendency to DIY if they don’t see what they want to see in politics. So, if the rank and file really wanted less immigration, I think they’d be doing something about it.”

    So basically, the proposition comes down to this:

    1. Jews always get the political outcomes they want in US politics.
    2. Massive immigration is the current political outcome in US politics.
    Therefore,
    3. Jews must want massive immigration.

    Is that about the size of it? I’m just trying to understand right now.

    Like, what can I do? I hate what’s happening in our country right now. I was happy to see Cantor ousted. I give more money to Vdare than all other donations combined.

    Are you saying I’m not really going to be able to absolve myself of the original sin of being Jewish unless I use my wicked clever Jew-brain to DIY the political change I want to see in this country?

  45. I don’t get how you’re pinning the immigration treason lobby on Jews.

    I don’t get how you’re ignoring how prominent Jews are in the treason lobby, and how important.

    It’s like anything you don’t like, is somehow, secretly, because of the Jews.

    No, but I will admit the converse: if Jews broadly support something that I previously had no opinion on, I tend to vote thumbs down.

    So basically, the proposition comes down to this:

    1. Jews always get the political outcomes they want in US politics.

    No, but betting against them is a good way to lose.

    2. Massive immigration is the current political outcome in US politics.
    Therefore,
    3. Jews must want massive immigration.

    No. This issue has been done ad nauseam (in my experience), so I don’t like to write a book every time a newb wanders in. You can easily find the answers if you do your homework, but I admit it’s a good bit of reading.

    Like, what can I do? I hate what’s happening in our country right now. I was happy to see Cantor ousted. I give more money to Vdare than all other donations combined.

    Are you saying I’m not really going to be able to absolve myself of the original sin of being Jewish unless I use my wicked clever Jew-brain to DIY the political change I want to see in this country?

    Okay, you’re on my side, so let me start by saying no, I didn’t just set out after the Jews. I started with a nasty habit of noticing movie credits (and agendas), but other than that, it was just my equally nasty habit of open-mindedness that took me to such awful places. Basically, after 9/11 I said, “I’m going to get to the bottom of this.”

    I think a key point to keep in mind is that sane people don’t choose Jews as adversaries. Most importantly because it’s the kiss of death among “Gentiles.” People who sincerely believe the moon landings were faked and AIDS is man-made get a better reception. Why in God’s name pick such a target willingly? Would to God I could get them on side, truly. I’d probably throw a party, then retire from the comment biz. I honestly believe that if Jews threw their weight onto our side as passionately as they’ve been using it against us (or as passionately as they advocate for Israel, etc.), the tide would change pretty quickly.

    There’s no original sin to being Jewish, of course, unless you bring some with you. I couldn’t care less that you’re Jewish (maybe gefilte fish). Okay, I’m more likely to assign Jewish motives to you, but that’s neither here nor there, really.

    What you can do is, ditch the idea that you have to “defend” the Jewish people, in the sense of deflecting blame. Embrace the idea that you need to defend the Jewish people by encouraging them to reform. Kick them in the ass. Hard. For their own good. America’s starting to shape up like Weimerica squared (the immivasion adds a whole ‘nother level of doom).

    There is no more valuable critic of a group than a member of that group. Jews get to dismiss me as an anti-semite. They get to dismiss you as a “self-hating Jew,” but that’s much harder to make stick.

    And I’m glad you give to VDare. Thanks for that. I’m still not really in the position to donate, but hope springs eternal.

  46. Whups, stepped on my own joke:

    There’s no original sin to being Jewish (maybe gefilte fish)

  47. To JCRR: Do not complain. You must offer a superior explanation to the fine minds here and here is one. About 2/3 of Jews in the US are liberal and let us assume that they support open immigration. About 1/3 of Jews in the US are conservative and they don’t. If you examine the two groups you will find that the first group is overwhelmingly secular and the second group is religious. The first group of secular liberal Jews has an intermarriage rate of 75%, if not higher, and it is climbing and the second group has a very very low intermarriage rate (religious Jews don’t marry out of the faith and do not seek conversions either). So now we see it is marriage to Gentiles which makes Jews favor of open borders. Blame the Gentiles and their conspiracy to make Jews liberal by marrying them. I am sure Mr. McDonald can write a whole series of books on this.

  48. “Thus in 1882 the Jewish press was unanimous in its condemnation of the Chinese Exclusion Act… even though this act had no direct bearing on Jewish immigration. … the AJCommittee… actively fought against any bill that restricted immigration to white persons or non-Asians, and only refrained from active opposition if it judged that AJCommittee support would threaten the immigration of Jews… In 1920 the Central Conference of American Rabbis passed a resolution urging that ‘the Nation … keep the gates of our beloved Republic open … to the oppressed and distressed of all mankind in conformity with its historic role as a haven of refuge for all men and women who pledge allegiance to its laws’…”

    Well, Gompers ( a Jew) favored restricting immigration, and his was a not inconsiderable voice:

    “Gompers, like most labor leaders of his era, opposed unrestricted immigration from Europe because it lowered wages and opposed all immigration from Asia because it lowered wages and represented (to him) an alien culture that could not be easily assimilated. He and the AF of L strongly supported the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 that banned the immigration of Chinese.[23] The AF of L was instrumental in passing immigration restriction laws from the 1890s to the 1920s, such as the 1921 Emergency Quota Act and the Immigration Act of 1924, and seeing that they were strictly enforced.” (WIKIPEDIA)

  49. “Also, that’s some heavy duty heat the Israeli border guards are packing.”

    Yes, and I am sure that you love that. I am sure that you fantasize about heavily armed American guards at the border bullying potential Mexican immigrants from entering the country. I bet you’d love to see the terror in the eyes of human beings that just want to work and have a better life, as the guards point their weapons at them and tell them “no”. I bet you would love that. That is the kind of person that you are.

  50. Svigor:”If your argument is that American Jewry’s leadership is going one way, and the rank and file are going another, then I’m sympathetic to that. But where do the leadership come from? Outer space? They were all rank and file at some point. Jews are much savvier than whites about getting what they want politically. They have a remarkable tendency to DIY if they don’t see what they want to see in politics. So, if the rank and file really wanted less immigration, I think they’d be doing something about it. Where’s the outcry? Look at Jewish bloggers. They seem to line up much like the Jewish political leadership. Speaking of, Jewish pols on our side are pretty rare. Even among the Republicans, Jews all seem to line up on the squishy open borders side of things. Jews are supposed to be so prominent, so dominant in all intellectual arenas. So where’s the Jewish vanguard on our side?

    I have trouble believing the shrinking violet Jewish rank and file thing.”

    Where is the White Gentile vanguard supporting immigration restriction? Off-hand, I can’t think of a single influential White Gentile group that favors serious restrictions on immigration.

  51. “Where is the White Gentile vanguard supporting immigration restriction? Off-hand, I can’t think of a single influential White Gentile group that favors serious restrictions on immigration.”

    There are several prominent Jewish pundits against amnesty, and thank God for them. Even Bill “Y is for Yahoo” Kristol, has come around to opposing amnesty, or so he claims.

    It’s the elected leaders, pro or con, who should interest us as the most reliable reference point. And while a majority of senators, Jew or Christian, voted for the 2006 and 2013 amnesties, the Jewish senators were unanimous in support of amnesty both times. As Svigor said, they don’t come from outer space. They have been pushed to the top with much help from the rank-and-file.

    Of course it’s ridiculous to think that open borders is some conspiracy of the Jews. One can read dozens of articles on various immigration issues and see hundreds of names, none of whom are Jewish, advocating for mass immigration/demographic collapse. Plutocrats have always favored cheap labor, even when there were few Jews around.

    What gets most commenters on this site is the hypocrisy: Jews who favor open borders for America but who adamantly oppose it for Israel; who would force diversity on all of us, while being less affected by it than the rest (see: their schools, workplaces, neighborhoods, and (especially) their synagogues); who favor “affirmative action,” but only so long as Jews aren’t broken out as a separate group, so they can be eligible for all ~65% of the white quota rather than the ~2% Jewish quota.

    I am not an anti-Semite – I just think that sauce for the goose is good for the gander.

  52. Nick Diaz: “Yes, and I am sure that you love that. I am sure that you fantasize about heavily armed American guards at the border bullying potential Mexican immigrants from entering the country. I bet you’d love to see the terror in the eyes of human beings that just want to work and have a better life, as the guards point their weapons at them and tell them “no”. I bet you would love that. That is the kind of person that you are.”

    Nick, much of what government does is done with the threat of a gun in my face, figuratively or literally. How is using those guns at the border any different?

    I’m fine with these illegal immigrants wanting a better life. I just don’t get why ugly racists like you don’t think they are perfectly capable of creating that better life in home countries full of Hispanics. Is the Bronze Race not capable of building great countries?

  53. To JCRR: Do not complain. You must offer a superior explanation to the fine minds here and here is one. About 2/3 of Jews in the US are liberal and let us assume that they support open immigration. About 1/3 of Jews in the US are conservative and they don’t. If you examine the two groups you will find that the first group is overwhelmingly secular and the second group is religious. The first group of secular liberal Jews has an intermarriage rate of 75%, if not higher, and it is climbing and the second group has a very very low intermarriage rate (religious Jews don’t marry out of the faith and do not seek conversions either). So now we see it is marriage to Gentiles which makes Jews favor of open borders. Blame the Gentiles and their conspiracy to make Jews liberal by marrying them. I am sure Mr. McDonald can write a whole series of books on this.

    I don’t really trust Jews’ reported numbers (too much reason to fudge or lie). The Jews have been on “the verge of extinction” forever now.

    Yes, and I am sure that you love that. I am sure that you fantasize about heavily armed American guards at the border bullying potential Mexican immigrants from entering the country. I bet you’d love to see the terror in the eyes of human beings that just want to work and have a better life, as the guards point their weapons at them and tell them “no”. I bet you would love that. That is the kind of person that you are.

    Steve can speak for himself, but I’d prefer minefields, so the poor border control boys can watch teevee or play cards instead.

    Where is the White Gentile vanguard supporting immigration restriction? Off-hand, I can’t think of a single influential White Gentile group that favors serious restrictions on immigration.

    Haha, you’re cute as ever. Here’s a semantics prize for you. Oh, and here’s a chutzpah prize, too (gotta love a Jew blaming “Gentiles” for NOT excluding them).

  54. re Nick Diaz: “I am sure that you fantasize about heavily armed American guards at the border bullying potential Mexican immigrants from entering the country.”
    ———————————————————–

    We respect Mexicans and their human rights. But Whites have human rights too. Would you approve if we moved 70 million Africans who “want to have a better life” to Mexico? And if Mexicans became discriminated against in their own country? We would support Mexicans’ right to oppose that.

    It’s in your own self-interest to oppose further immigration. The US labor market has an over-supply of low education workers, so continued immigration lowers their wages. And the welfare services that are funded by Whites are going to continue to go bankrupt as Whites become a smaller portion of the country.

  55. Wait, Nick Diaz showed up again? Jiminy CRICKET! So much for white flight. Ethel, you go empty the refrigerator, I’ll pack the bags. We’ll have to get Steve to move again.

  56. Nicky! I’ve missed you. Your efforts are always good for a laugh. Let’s see what you have for us now.

    Nicky:”Yes, and I am sure that you love that.”

    Well, I certainly love it. Why should the Israelis be the only ones with a secure border?

    Nicky:” I am sure that you fantasize about heavily armed American guards at the border bullying potential Mexican immigrants from entering the country. ”

    Now Nicky, don’t limit it to Mexicans. El Salvadorans, Hondurans, etc, are also known to try that route.

    Nicky:”I bet you’d love to see the terror in the eyes of human beings that just want to work and have a better life, ”

    Sadly, Nicky, they want to do rather more than that; they also want to invade my country.

    Nicky:”as the guards point their weapons at them and tell them “no”.””

    One advantage there; No is the same in both English and Spanish.

    Nicky:” I bet you would love that. That is the kind of person that you are.”

    It’s done out of love, not hate, Nicky. I love my country too much to give it away to Mexicans.

  57. Svigor:”Haha, you’re cute as ever. ”

    You’re too kind.

    Svigor:”Here’s a semantics prize for you. Oh, and here’s a chutzpah prize, too (gotta love a Jew blaming “Gentiles” for NOT excluding them).”

    Well, myth of Sisyphus and all that. I’ll try again. Where are the White Gentile organizations on this issue? As near as I can tell, they are all for mass immigration. Heck, there isn’t even a White Gentile billionaire out there who opposes mass immigration.

  58. I find the Jews that I know respond well to reasoned arguments like those of Sailer when presented in a friendly manner.

    Rising Muslim anti-Semitism in Europe is particularly persuasive to them that liberalism is mistaken.

    Presenting immigration control as being as important in the U.S. as it is in Israel would also be persuasive. Israelis have to deal with the downsides of human biodiversity everyday.

  59. Syon: Thanks for your comments in this thread, but regarding Nick, I think respectfulness is more effective than mocking. By reading these articles, he’s stepping farther outside of the box than most people ever will.

    Svigor said: “I don’t really trust Jews’ reported numbers (too much reason to fudge or lie). The Jews have been on “the verge of extinction” forever now.”

    Jewish intermarriage rates drastically shifted in the 1970s. NYT:

    The intermarriage rate, a bellwether statistic, has reached a high of 58 percent for all Jews, and 71 percent for non-Orthodox Jews — a huge change from before 1970 when only 17 percent of Jews married outside the faith. …

    “It’s a very grim portrait of the health of the American Jewish population in terms of their Jewish identification,” said Jack Wertheimer, a professor of American Jewish history at the Jewish Theological Seminary, in New York.

    Non-orthodox Jews’ 71% intermarriage rate means that most “Jews” today have more Christian ancestry than Jewish ancestry. (This includes myself.) That’s how you get “Jews” like Armie Hammer and Dianna Agron, and that trend is going to become increasingly apparent as the younger generations replace the older generations.

  60. I don’t get how you’re ignoring how prominent Jews are in the treason lobby, and how important.

    And where are those anti-immigration elite gentiles?

    Norquist and Rove are Scandinavian. Tom Donahue of the Chamber of Commerce is Irish as are/were Pat Leahy, and Ted Kennedy. Bob Bartley of the WSJ endorsed the infamous “there shall be open borders” constitutional amendment. How restrictionist are WASPs Howard Dean III, the three Bushes, David Souter, and John Paul Stevens?

    Western Europe’s elite is even more gentile (Jews are in the single digits of the elite compared to ~20% in America). And yet there are no EU elites calling for lower immigration despite the absence of Jews.

    When it comes to immigration, if Jews aren’t part of the liberal elite they’re replaced with liberal gentiles.

    Svigor says:
    June 22, 2014 at 8:15 pm

    You and MacDonald and the rest of his acolytes said a majority of all Jews (not just elites) are hypocrites for wanting more immigration when they support Israel. Except a majority of Jews want less legal immigration. 50% want less legal immigration and only 5% want more.

    The mainstream Jewish position consistent – lower immigration for America and a Jewish homeland in Israel.

    It’s a smaller majority than other religious groups. But you haven’t been writing “a relatively smaller majority of Jews want less immigration than other groups!”. So KM decided to ‘spice up’ his facts. In your case I’ll presume you weren’t informed.

    To answer the question, saying one thing and doing the opposite is the definition of hypocrisy, if I remember correctly. Which isn’t really fair to Jews, because aside from these polls you’re citing, they’re not really saying they want a pro-American immigration policy.

    If a majority of American Jews want lower immigration, they still want higher immigration???

    What gets most commenters on this site is the hypocrisy: Jews who favor open borders for America but who adamantly oppose it for Israel;

    There’s no hypocrisy – a majority wants less immigration for America. Oh yes, Jewish groups lobby for amnesty but the Roman Catholic Church and those WASPy Protestant denominations in the Northeast aren’t exactly racing to wall off the border.

    Those quotes about Kevin MacDonald prompted to me to do a google search (Jewish academics call him a liar. Well, duh!). He has a paper relating to Jewish involvement in immigration before WWII:

    Why are any of his papers to be trusted?

    He’s blogged about how anti-Semitic Solzhenitsyn’s Two Hundred Years Together is too. Except he lied; Solzhenitsyn’s book wasn’t anti-Semitic. If he’ll lie about that (because the great scholar and genius never realized Americans who speak Russian might review it before a translation was released) what makes you think his immigration papers aren’t also lies?

    why do you think it’s somehow “noble and patriotic” that the Jewish immigrants in the 1920s were opposed to limited immigration due “to the implicit theory that America should be dominated by individuals with northern and western European ancestry” ?

    Because in the rest of the chapter, MacDonald uses the quote to charge Jews wanted non white immigration at the turn of the century. A claim now dubious considering he’s been caught many times inventing quotes. If he’s so sure of his case why all the lies and distortions?

    As for European immigrants other than Northwestern ones, Poles, Italians, Greeks and other white ethnic also lobbied to keep the Great Wave immigration going but I’ve never seen those groups condemned for opposing the 1924 act.

    the Jewish senators were unanimous in support of amnesty both times.

    All Jewish Senators were Democrats or caucused with the Dems and the Dems were either unanimous or close to unanimous. But they weren’t reflecting the desires of the Jewish electorate which wants less immigration, which is a problem for every white gentile group.

  61. @Syon

    “Nicky! I’ve missed you. Your efforts are always good for a laugh. Let’s see what you have for us now.”

    Dont flatter yourself, idiot. Your sarcasm is unwarranted. Intellectually, you guys are not even worth the effort. I basically run laps around you, and have to explain even the basics for you. Remember when you confused the terms liberal and libertarian? I do.

    “Well, I certainly love it. Why should the Israelis be the only ones with a secure border?”

    In the case of Israel, they are the invaders. All that land belonged to the Palestineans until 1948. It is the Israelis who are the true security threat. They are a security threat to everyone. The 9/11 attacks occured for no other reason than the United States aided Israel against the Palestineans.

    In the case of the U.S, your statement is ridiculous. The vast majority of immigrants are non-violent workers who just want a better life for themselves. The criminals are the minority. There is no “security” threat at all. If that is the concern, then why simply not run criminal background checks on immigrants, instead of blocking the entrance of all of them? That is throwing the baby away with the bath water. Blocking the entrace of so many good people because of a few rotten ones. Completely illogical. And must I remind you: you NEED immigrants to keep your current standard of living.

    But this is not even the major issue. The major issue is: Why should there even be borders? Nationalism haa brought nothing but disgrace to the World. In the 20th Century alone, it killed 100 million people. World War I and II were nationalist wars. We should be tearing walls down rather than building them.

    “Now Nicky, don’t limit it to Mexicans. El Salvadorans, Hondurans, etc, are also known to try that route.

    So…?

    ”Sadly, Nicky, they want to do rather more than that; they also want to invade my country.”

    Again with the hyperbole. They just want to work for the most part. And you need them. The middle class needs them to support their current stadard of living. Sailer is right that, without immigants, the American “worker” would earn more. But this truly only applied to the bottom 10% to 20% of the American earning bracket. And it would come at the cost of diminishing the standard of living of the other 80% to 90% of Americans.

    And I don’t give a shit about nations. Nationalism is an irrational atavismo. A “nation” is just an arbitrary polico-geographical construct anyway. I don’t recognize the validity of your statement of “my nation”. That sounds detestable to me from the get go. So I dont even acknowledge that as a relevant statement. Or, as Einstein once said:

    “Nationalism is the cancer of Mankind.”

    “One advantage there; No is the same in both English and Spanish.”

    The inflexion is different, though. Your attempts to look smart only make you look dumber. And it doesent matter what you think anyway. The will keep coming and there isnt a damn thing that you can do about it.

    “It’s done out of love, not hate, Nicky. I love my country too much to give it away to Mexicans.”

    Ah, but you took it from the Mexicans in the first place. And yeah, when you consider that the vast majority of those Mexicans just want to work to have decent lives, wanting to stop all of them them from coming to America on the grounds that less than 1% of them might committ crimes is pretty hateful. From the point of view of utilitarianism, you are creating far more suffering than you are avoiding it.

  62. And I don’t give a shit about nations. Nationalism is an irrational atavismo.

    So why would we want more people with that attitude here? We have to expect them, like you, not to respect the US as a nation. Civic virtue? It’s not apparent.

  63. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    @Anonymous 11:03 PM

    “So why would we want more people with that attitude here? We have to expect them, like you, not to respect the US as a nation. Civic virtue? It’s not apparent.”

    What does it matter whether they respect the U.S as a nation or not? So you need to uphold nationalism to be regarded as a conscientious person? What about all the nationalistic mass murderers? Sorry to break this to you, but libertarians are anti-nationalist, and yet they are the most conscientious people there is: they have the lowest rates of incarceration of any political denomination. I don’t respect the U.S.

    So whether they respect the U.S as a nation or not doesen’t matter. What matters is whether they are non-violent and ethical towards others. Again, we can find that out by running criminal background checks.

  64. syonredux [AKA "s"] says:

    Nicky:”Dont flatter yourself, idiot. Your sarcasm is unwarranted. Intellectually, you guys are not even worth the effort. I basically run laps around you, and have to explain even the basics for you. Remember when you confused the terms liberal and libertarian? I do.”

    See, this is the pure comedy gold that we’ve been missing. It’s even funnier when you mentally add the thick accent.

    Nicky:”In the case of Israel, they are the invaders.
    All that land belonged to the Palestineans until 1948. It is the Israelis who are the true security threat. They are a security threat to everyone. The 9/11 attacks occured for no other reason than the United States aided Israel against the Palestineans.”

    All quite pointless, Nicky. The Israelis demonstrate the importance of walls; they show that a nation can guard its frontiers. It just takes a little will.

    Nicky:”In the case of the U.S, your statement is ridiculous. The vast majority of immigrants are non-violent workers who just want a better life for themselves. The criminals are the minority. There is no “security” threat at all. If that is the concern, then why simply not run criminal background checks on immigrants, instead of blocking the entrance of all of them? That is throwing the baby away with the bath water. Blocking the entrace of so many good people because of a few rotten ones.”

    But they are invaders, Nicky. They are bringing their pathetic Hispanic culture and low IQs into Amnerica.

    Nicky:” Completely illogical. And must I remind you: you NEED immigrants to keep your current standard of living.”

    No, we don’t Nicky. The only people who need low-IQ Mestizos and Amerinds are corrupt plutocrats like Sheldon Adelson.

    Nicky :”But this is not even the major issue. The major issue is: Why should there even be borders?”

    For the same reason why a house has doors, Nicky; to keep people out.

    Nicky:”Nationalism haa brought nothing but disgrace to the World.”

    It’s done pretty well in the Anglosphere, Nicky. America, the UK, Australia: nationalism has been a great boon.

    Anonymous:” In the 20th Century alone, it killed 100 million people. World War I and II were nationalist wars.”

    Plenty of killing went on within national borders as well, Nicky: Mao’s China, Stalin’s USSR, Pol Pot’s Cambodia, etc.

    Nicky:”We should be tearing walls down rather than building them.”

    Hardly, Nicky. We need more walls. Nations should feel secure within their borders.

    Anonymous:”Again with the hyperbole. They just want to work for the most part.”

    Yes, Nicky. And breed, and have lots of non-American children….

    Nicky:”And you need them.”

    No, Nicky, we don’t.

    Nicky:”The middle class needs them to support their current stadard of living. Sailer is right that, without immigants, the American “worker” would earn more. But this truly only applied to the bottom 10% to 20% of the American earning bracket. And it would come at the cost of diminishing the standard of living of the other 80% to 90% of Americans.”

    Isn’t raising the standard of living of the the bottom 20% of Americans worth taking a slight hit? I, for one, would be perfectly willing to to pay more for grapes and to have my lawn mowed if it meant that my fellow Americans at the bottom would earn more.

    Nicky:”And I don’t give a shit about nations. ”

    Too bad for you. I do.

    Nicky:”Nationalism is an irrational atavismo. A “nation” is just an arbitrary polico-geographical construct anyway.”

    Hardly, Nicky. that’s one of the reasons why Mestizo Mexicans do so poorly here; they just don’t fit in.

    Nicky:” I don’t recognize the validity of your statement of “my nation”.”

    Fortunately, I don’t need your approbation, Nicky.

    Nicky:” That sounds detestable to me from the get go. So I dont even acknowledge that as a relevant statement. Or, as Einstein once said:

    “Nationalism is the cancer of Mankind.””

    Sadly, Einstein’s brilliance did not extend to political science.

    Nicky:”The inflexion is different, though.”

    Doesn’t seem to hinder the ability of Mexicans to understand me when I say “No.”

    Nicky:” Your attempts to look smart only make you look dumber. ”

    Nicky, still self-conscious about your poor English, I see.

    Nicky:”And it doesent matter what you think anyway. The will keep coming and there isnt a damn thing that you can do about it.”

    Sadly, true Nicky. Wealthy types like Sheldon Adelson are on your side, not mine.

    Nicky:”Ah, but you took it from the Mexicans in the first place. ”

    Who inherited it after they seceded from Spain…..and Spain’s title was based on right of conquest, so it basically boils down to who has possession.

    Nicky:”And yeah, when you consider that the vast majority of those Mexicans just want to work to have decent lives, wanting to stop all of them them from coming to America on the grounds that less than 1% of them might committ crimes is pretty hateful. ”

    I never said anything about crimes, Nicky. I don’t want them in my country because they are not very intelligent and they bring an alien culture with them.

    Nicky:”From the point of view of utilitarianism, you are creating far more suffering than you are avoiding it.”

    They are not suffering in Mexico, Nicky. They have a decent standard of living. Indeed, they are one of the fattest countries in the world.

    PS,

    Please keep on posting; just knowing that you are out there keeps me chuckling, Nicky.

  65. @Anonymous 11:03 PM

    “So why would we want more people with that attitude here? We have to expect them, like you, not to respect the US as a nation. Civic virtue? It’s not apparent.”

    What does it matter whether they respect the U.S as a nation or not? What matters is how conscientious they are. Sorry, but being nationalistic has nothing to do with being conscientious. History is full of ultra-nationalistic mass murderers. Sorry to break this to you, but the most successful and non-violent people tend to be the least nationalistic. If you look at crime statistics, you’ll see that the people who ends up least arrested for crimes of violence are usually the least nationalistic, such as libertarians and people with post-graduate degrees.

    Being a good citizen is not a function of adhering to nationalist ideologies: it is a function of being a good person. In the case of imigrants, this can be determined by running criminal background chekcs on them.

  66. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Sorry to break this to you, but the most successful and non-violent people tend to be the least nationalistic.”

    I want to see your statistics that the most successful people are the least nationalistic. Please post. Otherwise I’m inclined to think that you might not be a good person and are just making this up.

  67. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Well, Gompers ( a Jew) favored restricting immigration, and his was a not inconsiderable voice:”

    But the question isn’t who favored restricting immigration, or who was both in favor and against it, the question is who was pushing for it and why? That could well be the minority from a number of groups (after all, restrictions were passed). But it would seem well worth our time to find out who those were who thought it was vitally important.

  68. “See, this is the pure comedy gold that we’ve been missing. It’s even funnier when you mentally add the thick accent.”

    The only thing that is comedy gold is how stupid people such as yourself can genuinely believe themselves to be smarter than me. It is so flabbergasting that I sometimes think that you are trolling me.

    “All quite pointless, Nicky. The Israelis demonstrate the importance of walls; they show that a nation can guard its frontiers. It just takes a little will.”

    It demonstrates the importance of walls when your neighbors hate you for having taken their lands in the first place., and for setting yourself apart as a master race over them, all of which could have been avoided in the first place by not having done those things to your neighbors.The argument is is idiotic anyway because Israel is surrounded by MILITARY enemies. This is hardly the case regarding America’s relation with Mexico.

    “But they are invaders, Nicky. They are bringing their pathetic Hispanic culture and low IQs into Amnerica.”

    Do you have any idea what London, the capital of the Anglo-Saxon World, looked like a mere 200 years ago? Do you really think that the IQ of Anglo-Saxons increaded that much in 200 years? And “culture”, by definition, is malleable. It is something that can be changed by volition. Case in points: Anglo-Saxons bathed in the same water drank according to Roman sources. They no longer do that. They stopped being filfthy slobs because they learned manners, not because their biology changed.

    And you are one to talk about low IQ. You know what all the White men complaining about Latin American immigration have in common? Well, they tend to not be the smartest and most successful. I dont see many white Harvard graduates complaining about Mexican immigration. It is always the low class white guys with double-digit IQs, I wonder why…maybe it’s because the Mexican immigrants compete for the same Jobs as these White guys, the same Mexican immigrants that you complain about having a low IQ. If your IQ is so much higher, then how is it possible that you are competing for the same low-skill Jobs that they are? Hmmm…

    “No, we don’t Nicky. The only people who need low-IQ Mestizos and Amerinds are corrupt plutocrats like Sheldon Adelson.”

    Maybe you don’t, probably being an unskilled laborer. But the 70-80% of Americans who make more than minimum wage would lose a lot of their standard of living if Mexican immigrants werent here. If Mexican immigrants weren’t working cheaply, American workers at these low-skilled Jobs would be making more. True. But do you really think that producers in the goods and servisse sectors would not pass down the higher costs of labor to consumers? Think again(I know thinking is hard for you, but try…) You can’t just magically raise wages without increasing prices if the wage increases are not the result of increased productivity. This is basic logic. I know logic fails you, but try.

    “For the same reason why a house has doors, Nicky; to keep people out.”

    Bad analogy. Your house is a private place where you are at your most intimate. It makes sense to have doors to keep people out that you don’t want to from watching you bathe or eat. A country is a political-geographical construct where the concept of privacy does not apply. People entering your country and buying their own houses and not interfeing with you life are not violating your privacy. The concept of privacy does not apply to a collective entity such as a nation. The preservation of a “culture” is an invalid argument as a lot of people inside such a collective entity may not agree or share with it’s values. You fail.

    “It’s done pretty well in the Anglosphere, Nicky. America, the UK, Australia: nationalism has been a great boon.”

    Actually, the Anglosphere is the LEAST nationlistic European block there is. Historically, the Anglosphere countries have been far more open to foreigners than other European cultures. Case in point: The Manhattan Project had mostly European scientists, and it gave American the atomic bomb. If it weren’t the openess of America’s Anglosphere culture, America would have taken much longer to get the bomb, maybe even after Germany. And China was very closed and nationalistic until a few decades ago, and it was stagnant Now it is much more open, and look how much it has progressed.

    “Plenty of killing went on within national borders as well, Nicky: Mao’s China, Stalin’s USSR, Pol Pot’s Cambodia, etc.”

    I never claimed that nationalism is solely responsible for the killings of history. But it does have the largest share of the blood in it’s hands. Before there were modern nations, there was tribal warfare, and that is just proto-nationalism. Adding it all up, nationalism by far did the most killing. And funny that you bring Pol Pot and Mao, since there was actually a strong element of nationalism to their ideologies. They were more nationalist Marxists rather than internationalist Marxists. Even funnier that you ommitted Hitler, who’s nationalist ideology single-handedly led to the worst war in human history.

    “Hardly, Nicky. We need more walls. Nations should feel secure within their borders.”

    You would feel far more secure with Mexican nuns than with American criminals. Your argument fails.

    “Yes, Nicky. And breed,”

    Yes, just like your mother and father bred and gave life to you(unfortunately). What is wrong with that?

    “and have lots of non-American children….”

    Their children will be American, since they will be born in the U.S and American applies the Jus Solis principle of citizenship.

    “No, Nicky, we don’t.”

    You might not. But 80% of Americans are better with them around.

    “Isn’t raising the standard of living of the the bottom 20% of Americans worth taking a slight hit? I, for one, would be perfectly willing to to pay more for grapes and to have my lawn mowed if it meant that my fellow Americans at the bottom would earn more.”

    There are two problems here: first, the hit won’t be light. Secondly, you might, but most Americans won’t. That is why Sailer’s citizenism utimately will fail.

    “Too bad for you. I do.”

    No, too bad for YOU. Because people like me tend to win over people like you, so what we like also tends to win.

    “Hardly, Nicky. that’s one of the reasons why Mestizo Mexicans do so poorly here; they just don’t fit in.”

    There are plenty of poor whites in the Appalachians that do just as poorl, and yet you are perfectly fine with them. Double-standard much? All immigrant goups to America except for elite exiles were poor when they first came to America. Your point is moot.

    “Fortunately, I don’t need your approbation, Nicky.”

    Too bad that the people fro whom you do need approbation think just like me. Take a look: you are losing.

    “Sadly, Einstein’s brilliance did not extend to political science.”

    At least he could brag about something. What can you ACTUALLY brag about, besides your fantasies of being better than Mexicans? I can brag about having a másters degree in chemical engineering. Oh, and that I scored 170+ on those IQ tests you guys fetichise so much when I was a kid(stanford-Binet, LM form)

    “Doesn’t seem to hinder the ability of Mexicans to understand me when I say “No.”

    And yet, they still dont leave. I guess the problem is not the inflexion; it is arguably the fact that you are just not a ver commanding individual. Seriously, what can you ACTUALLY brag about? Do you have ANY talento?

    “Nicky, still self-conscious about your poor English, I see.”

    My English is certainly better than your logical deductive skills. Hey, at least I can improve on my supposed shortcomings. Too bad your defectiveness at thinking is probably innate. I will work on my English, promise: when one knows 5 languages such as myself, it is hard to become really good at any. But I try. Being tenacious is one of my virtues.

    “Sadly, true Nicky. Wealthy types like Sheldon Adelson are on your side, not mine.”

    It should make you wonder, though: why is it that all the rich, smart people tend to think like me? Hmmm…

    “Who inherited it after they seceded from Spain…..and Spain’s title was based on right of conquest, so it basically boils down to who has possession.”

    I was being facetious: I don’t really care who had what. Again, I don’t care about nationalism. I just turned the tables on your by pointing out your own hypocrisy.

    “I never said anything about crimes, Nicky. I don’t want them in my country because they are not very intelligent and they bring an alien culture with them.”

    So do you want all those dumb 80 IQ White Americans out as well? I mean, since your objection revolves around their supposed lack of intelligence determined by IQ tests – even though only a tiny fraction of Mexican immigrants in America have actually taken IQ tests. Ah, I forgot about your double-standards. And culture, by deduction, is not determined by biology otherwise peoples would have the same culture at every time, which is obviously not the case -the Swedes, for instance, have a radically different culture from their Viking ancestors despite the same genes.

    “They are not suffering in Mexico, Nicky. They have a decent standard of living. Indeed, they are one of the fattest countries in the world.”

    Right. Because obesity and starvation cannot coexist in the same society, huh? Too bad they can. King Louis XIV was obese, while the average Frenchman from his time was starving. At least try using arguments of your own instead of idiotic arguments from Steve Sailer.

    “PS,

    Please keep on posting; just knowing that you are out there keeps me chuckling, Nicky”

    I don’t know what to make of this. If you truly think that you are better than me, than it just makes you look even sadder. It seems like introspection and self-knowledge elude you as well. Seriously, do you have ANY abilities?

  69. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Undiscovered Jew, you should start a blog so your thoughts will all be in one place for people to link to.

    Anonymous said “Who was pushing for it and why?”

    Who pushed for it:
    “In total, 74% of Democrats and 85% of Republicans voted for passage of this bill. Most of the ‘no’ votes were from the American South.” Wikipedia

    Why they pushed for it:
    “At the height of the civil rights movement of the 1960s the law was seen as an embarrassment by, among others, President John F. Kennedy, who called the then-quota-system “nearly intolerable.” (ibid)

  70. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Undiscovered Jew, you should start a blog. Then your thoughts will all be in one place for people to link to. I’d be your first reader.

    Anon said “Who was pushing for it and why?”

    Who pushed for it:
    “In total, 74% of Democrats and 85% of Republicans voted for passage of [the Immigration Act of 1965]. Most of the ‘no’ votes were from the American South.” Wikipedia

    Why they pushed for it:
    “At the height of the civil rights movement of the 1960s the law was seen as an embarrassment by, among others, President John F. Kennedy, who called the then-quota-system “nearly intolerable.” (ibid)

  71. A question for our Gastarbiter Nick Diaz: How many people should be allowed to move to the United States? And why should they be Mexicans (and Central Americans)? Shouldn’t we, you know, shop around, and get the best value for our dollars? Maybe some Boers, some Swedes, a few more Hmong—-your insistence on Latin American importations sounds a little exclusivist to me, a little, dare I say it? (Dare, dare!—Blazing Saddles) racist.

  72. Nicky:”What does it matter whether they respect the U.S as a nation or not? What matters is how conscientious they are.”

    Other things matter, too, Nicky. Stuff like IQ and culture. Amerinds and Mestizos have low IQS, and their culture is non-Anglo.

    Nicky:”Sorry, but being nationalistic has nothing to do with being conscientious. History is full of ultra-nationalistic mass murderers.”

    And it’s also full of anti-Nationalistic mass murderers….

    Nicky Diaz:”Sorry to break this to you, but the most successful and non-violent people tend to be the least nationalistic.”

    Any stats on that one, Nicky?

    Anonymous:” If you look at crime statistics, you’ll see that the people who ends up least arrested for crimes of violence are usually the least nationalistic,”

    Are there any surveys on criminals and their attitudes towards the nation-state?

    Anonymous:”such as libertarians and people with post-graduate degrees.”

    N icky, how many people with post-graduate degrees commit crimes?

    Nicky:”Being a good citizen is not a function of adhering to nationalist ideologies: it is a function of being a good person. In the case of imigrants, this can be determined by running criminal background chekcs on them.”

    Which would allow in people with low IQs and different cultures.

  73. Nicky the Leftist:”The only thing that is comedy gold is how stupid people such as yourself can genuinely believe themselves to be smarter than me. It is so flabbergasting that I sometimes think that you are trolling me.”

    Seriously, Nicky. This is comedy gold.

    Nicky:”The argument is is idiotic anyway because Israel is surrounded by MILITARY enemies. This is hardly the case regarding America’s relation with Mexico.”

    Both America and Israel are surrounded by enemies, Nicky. The USA lets her enemies in; Israel keeps hers out.

    Nicky:”Do you have any idea what London, the capital of the Anglo-Saxon World, looked like a mere 200 years ago?”

    MMMM, 1814….At that point London was getting ready to commence her reign as the de facto capital of the world…

    Nicky the Leftist:” Do you really think that the IQ of Anglo-Saxons increaded that much in 200 years?”

    Shakespeare, Newton, Spenser, Bacon, Priestly, etc……seems to me that Anglos had plenty on the ball long before 1814.

    Leftist:”And “culture”, by definition, is malleable. It is something that can be changed by volition. Case in points: Anglo-Saxons bathed in the same water drank according to Roman sources. They no longer do that. They stopped being filfthy slobs because they learned manners, not because their biology changed.”

    Tell your malleable culture theory to your Hispanic brethren, Nicky. Mexico has been trying to change its culture for decades; it hasn’t worked.

    Leftist:”And you are one to talk about low IQ. You know what all the White men complaining about Latin American immigration have in common? Well, they tend to not be the smartest and most successful. I dont see many white Harvard graduates complaining about Mexican immigration.”

    Sadly true, Nicky. Since Mestizos and Amerinds are so stupid, elite Whites have little to fear from them in terms of competition.Of course, they tend to forget the damage that they are doing to the gene pool of the nation as a whole….

    Leftist:” It is always the low class white guys with double-digit IQs, I wonder why…maybe it’s because the Mexican immigrants compete for the same Jobs as these White guys, the same Mexican immigrants that you complain about having a low IQ. If your IQ is so much higher, then how is it possible that you are competing for the same low-skill Jobs that they are? Hmmm…”

    Nicky, Nicky, Nicky,…When did I ever say that I compete with Mestizos and Amerinds? There are very few of them in my field (18th century English Literature). Since I am a nationalist, I worry about my fellow Anglos, and that includes the ones at the bottom.

    Leftist:” But the 70-80% of Americans who make more than minimum wage would lose a lot of their standard of living if Mexican immigrants werent here. If Mexican immigrants weren’t working cheaply, American workers at these low-skilled Jobs would be making more. True. But do you really think that producers in the goods and servisse sectors would not pass down the higher costs of labor to consumers? Think again(I know thinking is hard for you, but try…)”

    Again, Nicky, I’m quite willing to pay more for grapes if it helps my fellow citizens. The ’50s was a highwater mark for the USA, and it was a time of very low immigration into the country.

    Leftist:”Bad analogy. Your house is a private place where you are at your most intimate. It makes sense to have doors to keep people out that you don’t want to from watching you bathe or eat.”

    Actually, Nicky, people also use doors to keep people from breaking into their houses and stealing their stuff. Doors also keep people from moving in without your consent.

    Leftist:”A country is a political-geographical construct where the concept of privacy does not apply. People entering your country and buying their own houses and not interfeing with you life are not violating your privacy.”

    Actually, Nicky, they are interfering with my life. Their numbers cause population growth, which raises the price of real estate. Their low IQs cause the national IQ average to go down. They form ethnocentric political groups, etc, etc

    Leftist:”Actually, the Anglosphere is the LEAST nationlistic European block there is. Historically, the Anglosphere countries have been far more open to foreigners than other European cultures. Case in point: The Manhattan Project had mostly European scientists, and it gave American the atomic bomb. If it weren’t the openess of America’s Anglosphere culture, America would have taken much longer to get the bomb, maybe even after Germany. And China was very closed and nationalistic until a few decades ago, and it was stagnant Now it is much more open, and look how much it has progressed.”

    Those were White people, Nicky, not Amerinds and Mestizos.Apples and oranges.

    Leftist:”You would feel far more secure with Mexican nuns than with American criminals.”

    Somehow I don’t think that nuns form a large chunk of the Mexicans who are invading the USA, Nicky.

    Leftist:”Yes, just like your mother and father bred and gave life to you(unfortunately). What is wrong with that?”

    There is a great deal wrong with having a breeding population of Amerinds and Mestizos within your borders.

    Leftist:”Their children will be American, since they will be born in the U.S and American applies the Jus Solis principle of citizenship.”

    Only in legal terms, Nicky. They won’t be Anglos.

    Leftist:”You might not. But 80% of Americans are better with them around.”

    Not in the long term, Nicky. Very few Americans want their nation to become another Mexico.

    Leftist:”No, too bad for YOU. Because people like me tend to win over people like you, so what we like also tends to win.”

    Sadly true, Nicky. You’ve got the plutocracy on your side.

    Leftist:”There are plenty of poor whites in the Appalachians that do just as poorl, and yet you are perfectly fine with them. Double-standard much?”

    Since we already have low-performing groups of our own, why import more?

    Leftist:” All immigrant goups to America except for elite exiles were poor when they first came to America.”

    Not true, Nicky. The Puritans, for example, were a middle class movement.

    Leftist:”Your point is moot.”

    I love it when you use secondary school debating terms.

    Leftist:”At least he could brag about something. What can you ACTUALLY brag about, besides your fantasies of being better than Mexicans? I can brag about having a másters degree in chemical engineering. Oh, and that I scored 170+ on those IQ tests you guys fetichise so much when I was a kid(stanford-Binet, LM form)”

    God, I love it when you go into boasting mode, Nicky. Comedy gold! Have you thought about doing a podcast? Combine this kind of ranting with a thick accent, and you would be a smash.

    Leftist:”And yet, they still dont leave. I guess the problem is not the inflexion; it is arguably the fact that you are just not a ver commanding individual. Seriously, what can you ACTUALLY brag about? Do you have ANY talento?”

    Ah,all-caps, the internet version of the hissy fit. More comedy gold. And “talento.” That was the icing on the cake.

    Leftist:”My English is certainly better than your logical deductive skills. Hey, at least I can improve on my supposed shortcomings. Too bad your defectiveness at thinking is probably innate. I will work on my English, promise: when one knows 5 languages such as myself, it is hard to become really good at any. But I try. Being tenacious is one of my virtues.”

    This one had me chuckling for a solid minute. You know, Nicky, I sent this out to some friends, and they won’t believe that you are real. they think that you are some kind of “Frito Bandito” type that I have made up.

    Leftist:”It should make you wonder, though: why is it that all the rich, smart people tend to think like me? Hmmm…”

    Hey, if you like having guys like Sheldon Adelson on your team…..

    Leftist:”So do you want all those dumb 80 IQ White Americans out as well? I mean, since your objection revolves around their supposed lack of intelligence determined by IQ tests – even though only a tiny fraction of Mexican immigrants in America have actually taken IQ tests. Ah, I forgot about your double-standards.”

    As I already pointed out, Nicky, since we have stupid people here already, why import more? And if I have a choice between being around stupid Anglos and stupid Hispanics, I’ll take the Anglos over the Hispanics.

    Leftist:”And culture, by deduction,”

    I think that you mean “by definition.” More comedy gold.

    Leftist:” is not determined by biology otherwise peoples would have the same culture at every time, which is obviously not the case -the Swedes, for instance, have a radically different culture from their Viking ancestors despite the same genes.”

    Ah, the old Boasian line. Biology lies at the root of culture, Nicky. Just look at Blacks…

    Leftist:”Right. Because obesity and starvation cannot coexist in the same society, huh?”

    Of course they can, Nicky. But do you have any evidence for masses of starving people in Mexico?

    Leftist:” Too bad they can. King Louis XIV was obese, while the average Frenchman from his time was starving.”

    MMMM, and in Mexico the poor are fat.

    Leftist:”At least try using arguments of your own instead of idiotic arguments from Steve Sailer.”

    Hey, when Steve is right he’s right. Mexico has one of the highest obesity rates in the world. People are not starving in Mexico. If you have any actual evidence to the contrary, Nicky, please post it.

    Leftist:”I don’t know what to make of this. If you truly think that you are better than me, than it just makes you look even sadder. It seems like introspection and self-knowledge elude you as well. Seriously, do you have ANY abilities?”

    Ah, Nicky, how do you keep on coming up with this stuff!Pure comedy gold!

  74. fnn says:

    Informed opinion about Two Hundred Years Together is all over the place. Why has such an important and controversial book, which has been published in both French and German, not been published in English?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Hundred_Years_Together#Reception

    The reception of Two Hundred Years Together has been quite varied. Historian Yohanan Petrovsky-Shtern of Northwestern University published a refutation of Solzhenitsyn’s claims and has accused him of anti-Semitism. On the other hand, historians such as Geoffrey Hosking[12] and Robert Service have defended Solzhenitsyn against his opponents.

    …Solzhenitsyn also accused Jews of wartime cowardice, and evasion of active duty, stating “I had to bury many comrades at the front, but not once did I have to bury a Jew.” while ignoring both the Jewish frontline casualties and the high number of Jews decorated for bravery in battle.[18] He also claimed that according to his personal experience, Jews had a much easier life in the GULAG camps that he was interned in.[19][20]

    Similarities between Two Hundred Years Together and an antisemitic essay titled “Jews in the USSR and in the Future Russia”, attributed to Solzhenitsyn, has led to inference that he stands behind the anti-Semitic passages. According to the historian Semyon Reznik, textological analyses have proven Solzhenitsyn’s authorship.[21] Solzhenitsyn himself claims that the essay is based on manuscripts stolen from him, and then manipulated, forty years ago.[15][22]

    …Historian and demographer Sergey Maksudov referred to THYT as “a piece of pseudoscientific essayism”, which promulgates numerous antisemitic stereotypes of Jews as professional parasites, infiltrators into the Russian culture, and portrays repressive policies toward Jews as being “in Jews’ own interests”. Maksudov also notes not only Solzhenitsyn’s insensitivity toward Jewish sufferings during pogroms in general, and the Kishinev pogrom in particular, but also Solzhenitsyn’s denial of many well documented atrocities.[27]

  75. Where are the White Gentile organizations on this issue? As near as I can tell, they are all for mass immigration. Heck, there isn’t even a White Gentile billionaire out there who opposes mass immigration.

    I don’t remember asking for Jewish organizations, so you’re attempting to hip-throw something you haven’t grabbed.

    Look at the whole of “our side,” politically. Where are the Jews? They’re supposed to be so prominent in all intellectual movements, but they’re not reporting for duty.

  76. Nicky:”The argument is is idiotic anyway because Israel is surrounded by MILITARY enemies. This is hardly the case regarding America’s relation with Mexico.”

    Both America and Israel are surrounded by enemies, Nicky. The USA lets her enemies in; Israel keeps hers out.

    It is nice to hear a Jew say that. One tires of the special pleading for Israel based on all the enemies she’s made (of all things). If whites went into the ghettoes with dogs and fire hoses and riot squads and stomped on blacks, I bet we could have a reason for some high walls, razor wire, and armed guards, too. If we invaded Mexico, I bet we could make a lot of enemies there. The “Israel gets to survive because she cracks Arab skulls, but YT doesn’t because he gets along with his neighbors” thing is surreal.

    ”Do you have any idea what London, the capital of the Anglo-Saxon World, looked like a mere 200 years ago?”

    The British Isles in 1200 were wealthier and better-fed than sub-Saharan African nations today.

    Leftist:”And you are one to talk about low IQ. You know what all the White men complaining about Latin American immigration have in common? Well, they tend to not be the smartest and most successful. I dont see many white Harvard graduates complaining about Mexican immigration.”

    I don’t see many Harvard grads making appeals to authority, either. Actually, I don’t keep track, so maybe they do.

    It is always the low class white guys with double-digit IQs

    You know this, how? The usual leftist telepathy? I don’t want to toot my own horn, but I don’t think “low class” or “double-digit IQ” describe me well. I am a white guy, though.

    Kudos syon, I couldn’t be bothered to keep reading his drivel.

  77. Svigor:”I don’t remember asking for Jewish organizations, so you’re attempting to hip-throw something you haven’t grabbed.

    Look at the whole of “our side,” politically. Where are the Jews? They’re supposed to be so prominent in all intellectual movements, but they’re not reporting for duty.”

    Individual Jews, eh?

    Well, back in the late 19th-early 20th century there was the great Samuel Gompers.We need Labor leaders like him again.

    More recently, there was the dearly departed Lawrence Auster (I’m assuming that you are counting Jews according to ethnic background, not religious beliefs). Still with us are Mickey Kaus, Edwin S. Rubenstein, Ilana Mercer, Paul Gottfried….

  78. Svigor:”I don’t remember asking for Jewish organizations, so you’re attempting to hip-throw something you haven’t grabbed.

    Look at the whole of “our side,” politically. Where are the Jews? They’re supposed to be so prominent in all intellectual movements, but they’re not reporting for duty.”

    Actually, it’s hard to think of a public intellectual (i.e., someone who is part of the MSM conversation) who favors reduced immigration. Some probably do in private, but the only figure who comes to mind who has spoken about it publicly of late is Ann Coulter. Bit sad when the only person in the room with balls is a woman.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @syonredux

    Kaus is excellent on immigration, Frum is good, Kristol is not bad.

  79. “Maksudov also notes not only Solzhenitsyn’s insensitivity toward Jewish sufferings during pogroms in general, and the Kishinev pogrom in particular, but also Solzhenitsyn’s denial of many well documented atrocities.”

    You know, people harp on the late 19th-early 20th century pogroms a bit too much. Matthew White has some figures:

    “Some 2,000 of these were killed in Jewish pogroms.
    Eckhardt, civil conflicts in 1905-06:
    Pogrom, Russians vs Jews: 2,000
    Peasants & Workers vs Govt: 1,000
    James Trager, The People’s Chronology (1992): Pogroms in Russia kill some 50,000 Jews by 1909 (“1905”)
    OnWar.com: Pogroms in Russia (1903) k. 50,000 Jews
    NOTE: I can’t find supporting evidence for these high numbers killed in the pogroms. Most individual events seem to have killed dozens, and very occasionally hundreds.
    “In the famous pogrom of Kishinev in 1903, there were 49 Jewish deaths out of a Jewish population of about 50,000; in Bialystok in 1906, 70 deaths out of about 48,000 Jews.” (http://www.west.net/~jazz/felshtin/redcross.html)
    “During 1903 and 1904, 45 pogroms occurred, 95 Jews and 13 non-Jews were killed, and 4,200 people were severely injured.” ”

    This is really small scale stuff. Many more Jews died in the pogroms that happened during the Russian Civil War.

  80. @syonredux
    Svigor:”I don’t remember asking for Jewish organizations, so you’re attempting to hip-throw something you haven’t grabbed.

    Look at the whole of “our side,” politically. Where are the Jews? They’re supposed to be so prominent in all intellectual movements, but they’re not reporting for duty.”

    Actually, it's hard to think of a public intellectual (i.e., someone who is part of the MSM conversation) who favors reduced immigration. Some probably do in private, but the only figure who comes to mind who has spoken about it publicly of late is Ann Coulter. Bit sad when the only person in the room with balls is a woman.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Kaus is excellent on immigration, Frum is good, Kristol is not bad.

  81. Don’t forget Mark Levin, who might be the single most influential immigration restrictionist right now. Eric Cantor’s defeat is his doing, to a large degree.

  82. Informed opinion about Two Hundred Years Together is all over the place.

    His harshest critics have these main concerns:

    * Accusing Jews of war time cowardice
    * Jewish overrepresentation in the Soviet hierarchy
    * Dominating trade and supplying alcohol
    * Downplaying how persecuted Russian Jews normally were

    Overrepresentation isn’t disputed by historians (which Solzhenitsyn inflated, Jews were ~20% of the early Communist leadership) and it’s the only main criticism relevant to the central thesis of MacDonald and American anti-semites: the Russian Revolution was a Jewish project designed to serve Jewish collective racial interests. The other criticisms Solzhenitsyn supposedly levels against Jews are rarely made by MacDonald.

    Despite writing the Bolshevik leadership was disproportionally Jewish, Solzhenitsyn’s work contradicts MacDonald’s position. He denies collective responsibility of Jews because Bolshevik Jews were in his view apostates, said Russians were equally to blame, and denied Jews were the cause of the Revolution.

    MacDonald is again caught lying about a source, one that undermines his argument. If he’s going to lie, he should at least be smart enough to lie about passages from an antisemitic source.

    Why has such an important and controversial book, which has been published in both French and German, not been published in English?

    Shouldn’t American antisemites be able to at least read German?

  83. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Why they pushed for it:

    “At the height of the civil rights movement of the 1960s the law was seen as an embarrassment by, among others, President John F. Kennedy, who called the then-quota-system “nearly intolerable.” (ibid)

    My comment was in regard to those fighting the 1924 immigration restriction act, not the Civil Rights Act. That’s why I mentioned that those fighting for more immigration lost. The reason for looking at the 1924 act was somebody said something suggesting Jews did not play an important, perhaps key, role in pushing for more immigration before WWII, which is just not plausibly the case. As with communism, where not all Jews were communists, but many communists in the USA were Jews.

    About the Civil Rights Act, if would be interesting to know if that would have happened to the same degree if President Kennedy had not been assassinated. That gave his politics a bit of the mantle of the martyr.

  84. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    @Syon

    “Nicky the Leftist:”The only thing that is comedy gold is how stupid people such as yourself can genuinely believe themselves to be smarter than me. It is so flabbergasting that I sometimes think that you are trolling me.”

    Seriously, Nicky. This is comedy gold. ”

    The fact that you call me leftist just highlights how fucking stupid you are.

    “Nicky:”The argument is is idiotic anyway because Israel is surrounded by MILITARY enemies. This is hardly the case regarding America’s relation with Mexico.”

    Both America and Israel are surrounded by enemies, Nicky. The USA lets her enemies in; Israel keeps hers out.”

    America is not surrounded by military enemies. Mexicans are not invading the U.S with armed organiaztions of men to kill Americans. A very small number are criminals. The majority are in America to work.

    “Nicky:”Do you have any idea what London, the capital of the Anglo-Saxon World, looked like a mere 200 years ago?”

    MMMM, 1814….At that point London was getting ready to commence her reign as the de facto capital of the world…”

    Completely irrelevant. London in 1814 was full of slums so abysmal that they make the barios of México City look like like an upper-class neighborhood. Having a degree in English literature, and apparently you never read Dickens.

    “Shakespeare, Newton, Spenser, Bacon, Priestly, etc……seems to me that Anglos had plenty on the ball long before 1814.

    You are proving MY point, idiot. So why were they poor, since obviously their IQ was already high back then? Thanks for agreeing with me

    “Tell your malleable culture theory to your Hispanic brethren, Nicky. Mexico has been trying to change its culture for decades; it hasn’t worked.

    You máster northern European race were uncivilized barbarians for thousands of years. Your (stupid) point is?

    “Sadly true, Nicky. Since Mestizos and Amerinds are so stupid, elite Whites have little to fear from them in terms of competition.Of course, they tend to forget the damage that they are doing to the gene pool of the nation as a whole….”

    Andyet, the ‘stupid” Amerindians are competition for the angry whites who side with Sailer. I wonder why…

    “Nicky, Nicky, Nicky,…When did I ever say that I compete with Mestizos and Amerinds? There are very few of them in my field (18th century English Literature). Since I am a nationalist, I worry about my fellow Anglos, and that includes the ones at the bottom. ”

    More like a racist. Not that nationalism is any different from racism.

    “Again, Nicky, I’m quite willing to pay more for grapes if it helps my fellow citizens. The ’50s was a highwater mark for the USA, and it was a time of very low immigration into the country.

    But most of your White “fellow” citizens are not. And that is what matters.

    “Actually, Nicky, people also use doors to keep people from breaking into their houses and stealing their stuff. Doors also keep people from moving in without your consent.”

    A country is not a house. Very bad analogy. You own your house; no one owns a country. A country is a geographical and political construct that has laws concerning the interactons between the people who live in it. One of these laws is immigration laws. A legal immigrant has every right to stay.

    “Actually, Nicky, they are interfering with my life. Their numbers cause population growth, which raises the price of real estate. Their low IQs cause the national IQ average to go down. They form ethnocentric political groups, etc, etc”

    Interfering with your life by proxy of making real estate more expensive? Are you kidding? They are living their life, and as long as they don’t use violence, it is none of your business. And their “low IQ” has no conseqence to your life, only to theirs. If you have such a high IQ, which is obviously not the case given your arguments, you would be able to have a great life regardless of their IQ.

    “Those were White people, Nicky, not Amerinds and Mestizos.Apples and oranges.”

    Wrong. The U.S is an Anglosphere country, and a lot of the engineers who keep it’s technology industry going are from places like India and China. A lot of Nobel Prized earned by American universities are by foreigners.

    “Somehow I don’t think that nuns form a large chunk of the Mexicans who are invading the USA, Nicky.”

    Irrelevant, again. You tried to ascribe character to racial groups. I proved that it varies according to individuals and not race. You lose.

    “There is a great deal wrong with having a breeding population of Amerinds and Mestizos within your borders. ”

    What can I reply to this other than state that you are a racist pig?

    “Only in legal terms, Nicky. They won’t be Anglos.”

    American citizenship was never restricted to Anglos after the days of the 13 colonies. America proactices jus solis, so their children will be American. I was right. You were wrong.

    “Not in the long term, Nicky. Very few Americans want their nation to become another Mexico.”

    It won’t. Plenty of stupid White people in America, but it continues to be rich because of it’s institutions and culture. Oh, and the large number of non-White scientists keeping it’s technologyn industry afloat.

    “Sadly true, Nicky. You’ve got the plutocracy on your side.”

    I also got the ability to think logically on my side. And the plutocrats are also pretty smart. No wonder they think like me.

    “Since we already have low-performing groups of our own, why import more?”

    Better question: why don’t you practice standards of moral consistency and kick them out of America? After all, it is because of their IQ, right? Oh wait, it is because your claim about caring that they have a low IQ is just a smokescreen: you are just a racist.

    “Not true, Nicky. The Puritans, for example, were a middle class movement.”

    They were petit bourgeoise, but they were dirt poor in America in the beggining. Most did not even make it through the first winter in New England due to the cold and starvation.

    “I love it when you use secondary school debating terms.”

    I love when you resort ot ad hominem. That is so noble of you.

    “God, I love it when you go into boasting mode, Nicky. Comedy gold! Have you thought about doing a podcast? Combine this kind of ranting with a thick accent, and you would be a smash.”

    But it’s true, though. Eat your heart out, IQ fetichist.

    “Ah,all-caps, the internet version of the hissy fit. More comedy gold. And “talento.” That was the icing on the cake.”

    More ad hominem. YOU are the one resembling a bitchy teenage girl right now.

    “This one had me chuckling for a solid minute. You know, Nicky, I sent this out to some friends, and they won’t believe that you are real. they think that you are some kind of “Frito Bandito” type that I have made up.”

    You are so contemptible. Truly a dipshit of the highest order. I wonder how any university can have a stupid, racist son of a bitch such as yourself as a teacher.

    “Hey, if you like having guys like Sheldon Adelson on your team…..”

    And pretty much every other rich and successful person…

    “As I already pointed out, Nicky, since we have stupid people here already, why import more? And if I have a choice between being around stupid Anglos and stupid Hispanics, I’ll take the Anglos over the Hispanics.”

    Yes, at least you admit to your racism.

    “I think that you mean “by definition.” More comedy gold.”

    You are so stupid. And you actually think that you are smart. No, it is actually “by deduction” since I came to a conclusion by eliminating the alternative since it contained a contradiction. Oh boy, you must be embarrassed by now. Probably not, though.

    “Ah, the old Boasian line. Biology lies at the root of culture, Nicky. Just look at Blacks…”

    Explain the Germans during the Roman era. The Greeks and Romans did not have a very high opinion about their intellects and culture.

    “Of course they can, Nicky. But do you have any evidence for masses of starving people in Mexico?”

    Well, given that I have seen people in Guadalajara holding signs “Will work for food”, I dont think it is unreasonable to assume it. Mexico has had several Injun uprisings due to famine caused by bad crops.

    “MMMM, and in Mexico the poor are fat.”

    Define “poor”. There are plenty of people in Mexico who are so poor they are indigents. I assume they dont get an ideal nutrition.

    “Hey, when Steve is right he’s right. Mexico has one of the highest obesity rates in the world. People are not starving in Mexico. If you have any actual evidence to the contrary, Nicky, please post it.”

    Having one of the highest obesity rates in the worlds does not disprove the starvation.

    “Ah, Nicky, how do you keep on coming up with this stuff!Pure comedy gold!”

    Comedy Gold is to watch a stupid person such as yourself be contemptuous towards others. It is actually enteratining.

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