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From the Washington Post news section:

The best place to ride out a global societal collapse is New Zealand, study finds

By Adam Taylor
Today at 1:00 p.m. EDT

If the skies were to darken, seas swell and economies crumble, where would be the best place to ride out global civilizational collapse?

In the southwestern Pacific, in a country with some six times as many sheep as people, according to a recent study.

New Zealand could be one of the last places standing.

Released this month in the journal Sustainability by researchers at Britain’s Anglia Ruskin University, the study aimed to build understanding of which destinations could survive independently in the face of a global disaster caused by the likes of climate change, a pandemic, a financial collapse or other cataclysmic disruptions.

Or, as the paper puts it, which destinations could survive as “nodes of persisting complexity” in the face of a period of rapid, uncontrolled and worldwide “de-complexification.”

Islands in temperate regions and with low population densities generally came out on top. Destinations were ranked on a variety of factors, including land area per capita, distance from other population centers and potential for renewable energy and agriculture.

Other potential “nodes” include Iceland, Tasmania and Ireland, the study found, and the researchers said they were surprised by a relatively strong showing from Britain. However, New Zealand was found to have the most “potential.”

Though New Zealand’s economy is highly globalized and the country currently relies on imports, it has “abundant” energy resources and agricultural land, the study found.

Riding out the apocalypse in New Zealand sounds pretty good, so long as you like mutton.

 
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  1. Anon[311] • Disclaimer says:

    Peter Thiel is a pretty smart guy.

    New Zealand citizenship[edit]

    Thiel was a German citizen by birth, and became an American citizen by naturalization.[163] He became a New Zealand citizen in 2011, which became public in 2017.[164] In 2015, he purchased a 193-hectare estate near Wanaka, which fitted the classification of “sensitive land” and required foreign buyers to obtain permission from New Zealand’s Overseas Investment Office. Thiel did not require permission as he was a citizen.[165]

    He had received permanent residency in New Zealand in 2007.[166][167] He had visited the country on four occasions prior to his application for citizenship,[168] and had spent 12 days in New Zealand, fewer than the typical residency requirement of 1350 days.[169] When he applied, he stated he had no intention of living in New Zealand, which is a criterion for citizenship.[170] Then-Minister of Internal Affairs Nathan Guy waived those normal requirements, under an “exceptional circumstances” clause of the Citizenships Act.[164][168][170]

    Thiel’s application cited his contribution to the economy—he had founded a venture capital fund in Auckland before applying, and invested $7 million in two local companies—as well as a $1 million donation to the 2011 Christchurch earthquake appeal fund.[168] Rod Drury, founder of Xero, also provided a formal reference for Thiel’s application.[164] Thiel’s case was cited by critics as an example that New Zealand passports can be bought,[168][171] something the New Zealand government denied.[168] At the time that his citizenship was revealed, The New Zealand Herald came out with the report that the New Zealand Defence Force, the Security Intelligence Service and the Government Communications and Security Bureau have long-standing links with Thiel’s Palantir.[172]

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
    @Anon

    Good news for Thiel: in an emergency, Palantir stock can be used as toilet paper.

    , @Triteleia Laxa
    @Anon


    Thiel’s application cited his contribution to the economy—he had founded a venture capital fund in Auckland before applying, and invested $7 million in two local companies—as well as a $1 million donation to the 2011 Christchurch earthquake appeal fund.[168] Rod Drury, founder of Xero, also provided a formal reference for Thiel’s application.[164] Thiel’s case was cited by critics as an example that New Zealand passports can be bought,[168][171] something the New Zealand government denied. At the time that his citizenship was revealed, The New Zealand Herald came out with the report that the New Zealand Defence Force, the Security Intelligence Service and the Government Communications and Security Bureau have long-standing links with Thiel’s Palantir
     
    If only all immigrants paid that price.
    , @Bill Jones
    @Anon

    Palantir's vacuuming up all the dirty secrets of New Zealand's Great and the Good made certain that his Citizenship was a shoo-in.

    What are you going to say to the guy who has the records of every sheep you've ever fucked?

    , @Mobi
    @Anon

    We may have some high-profile lurkers!

    Google co-founder Larry Page gets New Zealand residency, raising questions

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/international-business/article-google-co-founder-larry-page-gets-new-zealand-residency-raising/

  2. Although Dickens wrote about families tucking into legs of roast mutton, hardly anybody today knows what mutton tastes like, although I understand it is very good.

    The market for mutton seems to be completely replaced with lamb.

    Doesn’t sound like post-apocalyptic New Zealand would be a very good place for vegans.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Jonathan Mason


    hardly anybody today knows what mutton tastes like
     
    I had it as a kid and remember it as gamey/smelly and tough so it was boiled.
    It was pretty much for poor people, but is probably now a hipster fave like all the other shitty cuts of meat we used to eat.

    Replies: @Pericles, @donut

    , @Clyde
    @Jonathan Mason


    Although Dickens wrote about families tucking into legs of roast mutton.......
    The market for mutton seems to be completely replaced with lamb.
     
    True about that replacement. What happens with all the old sheep that must be disposed of? Perhaps their meat (mutton) is exported or put into dog food.
    , @Charon
    @Jonathan Mason

    Hmm. I defy any of you red-blooded carnivores to watch a lamb or calf frolicking in a meadow for three minutes and then tell me it should have its throat cut just so you can have another variety of meat you don't need.

    , @slumber_j
    @Jonathan Mason

    I learned from ex-Top Gear guy Jeremy Clarkson's new show Clarkson's Farm that mutton is in fact widely if mostly unwittingly consumed in the UK at least: the "lamb" in your typical British "Indian" (actually Pakistani in almost all cases) restaurant is in fact mutton.

    Kiwis would argue that Australian lamb is mutton. And almost anyone would argue that most of the lamb that's eaten in the US is mutton: in order to qualify as lamb in the USA, a sheep just has to be under one year old. Guess how old most of the sheep we eat are...

    The one place I know of in the US that openly serves and indeed celebrates mutton is the excellent Keens Steakhouse in Manhattan, my favorite place for meat in NYC--more dependably good than the vastly overrated Peter Luger in my experience. Their mutton chop is really, really good, their most famous dish and like most steakhouse meat items actually pretty reasonable if you split it between two people as you should.

    https://youtu.be/xSKLeo6Mb3k?t=192

    Replies: @Ed Case

    , @Bozo the Clown
    @Jonathan Mason

    Seems to me that post-apocalyptic anything/anywhere would be a terrible situation for vegans.

    , @Anon
    @Jonathan Mason

    Like catfish, mutton has benefited from domestication, which has gotten rid of the gameiness. And it's nearly impossible to overcook it.

    , @Muggles
    @Jonathan Mason

    Contrary to at least one commentator on this thread, lamb isn't mutton.

    As others correctly note, mutton is old/older sheep. Thus the fat is very strong tasting (not good) and meat is gamy and tough.

    In medieval times (and certain places probably now) when sheep got too old or lame for sheering you had mutton for dinner.

    Lamb was a delicacy as it is much milder and more tender.

    If they were "the same" as Mr. Anon claims, no one would eat lamb since larger sheep obviously have far more meat on them.

    Of course taste is subjective. But how many regular American markets even carry mutton?

  3. Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over, California ain’t too shabby.

    *Roughly 3-4 months in winter, about a week during a summer heat wave.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @James Speaks

    Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over, California ain’t too shabby.

    Water is going to be an issue, though.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    , @anon
    @James Speaks

    Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over,

    The Larry Niven and the late Jerry Pournelle explored a bit of that back in the 1970's. That phase could be rather problematic.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/218467.Lucifer_s_Hammer

    For example, most of SoCal is habitable only with a goodish supply of industrial technology, and the technologists to keep it working.

    Replies: @James Speaks

  4. My ex neighbor, who’s ex-husband is working at a famous Berkeley restaurant, after she ran off with one of her graduate students, got her degree in New Zealand. She studied Carnivorous Plants.. In New Zealand there are only 2 carnivorous plants.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    @Michelle

    i love comments like this

    , @jamie b.
    @Michelle

    In college one of my instructors was a herpetologist from New Zealand. NZ is known for the tuatara and... that's about it, lizard-wise.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  5. Alex Jones has been saying for years that the elite will flee to New Zealand when things go bad. Is wapo admitting that Jones is right?

    • Replies: @Charon
    @Pop Warner

    The richest person I know maintains two houses in NZ, but hardly ever visits. Too far away from everything!

    , @J.Ross
    @Pop Warner

    This is old news. The guy who wrote the Farmlet and Cryptogon blogs did this way before it was cool. He mentions how hard it is to renounce US citizenship, they lose your package multiple times. He was able to have a slightly easier time by marrying a Kiwi and getting along with her family.

    , @Bill
    @Pop Warner

    Relevant: Gulfstream G700 makes it from San Jose, CA to Auckland w/o refueling.

    Replies: @JMcG

    , @Muggles
    @Pop Warner

    In the old USSR days the Politburo used to joke (so it was said) that after the Communists took over everyplace else they would leave New Zealand alone. So that they would have a valid reference point for actual market prices.

    It's a very old joke.

    New Zealand seems very nice from afar, but I suspect living there gets very boring. Like any small town after a while you've eaten at all the restaurants, been at the bars, and seen most of the people worth seeing.

    The only Kiwi native I ever met (40 years ago) was a very bright guy. I asked him why he had left such a nice place. He said business wise it was "dead" and there was nothing going on there. Like you might hear from someone from a small/mid sized town.

    You can't eat the scenery. Also, lots of earthquakes. Still, someday I want to visit there.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @SaneClownPosse

  6. New Zealand is for rookie apocalypse riders. St. Helena, The Azores, or maybe Pitcarin Island are good choices if you are serious.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Hypnotoad666

    One wonders how many apocalypses one must ride out before graduating from "rookie" to "serious"?

    At five apocalypses does one become an "ace"?

    Replies: @Cortes, @Charles

    , @PaceLaw
    @Hypnotoad666

    So there’s a circuit for “apocalypse riders“??? How sad! People blowing extravagant sums of money on some sort of magical redoubt from climate change or nuclear war. I guess the wealthy will always find some new ways to waste their money.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Hypnotoad666

    Hypno, I had been thinking of Uruguay even before John Derbyshire* started bring it up, but was hesitant to write much in fear of some of you peons following me and my Davos buddies on down there. There's no real estate for sale there anyway. No, I mean NOTHING, not even a place for rent.

    Now, I'm thinking perhaps a real shithole country like Surinam or Burkina Faso**, maybe Madagascar. For one thing, nobody wants to invade. Also, whether it's Global Climate Disruption™, a plandemic, or the expected financial collapse, the place can only get better from it. Buy when there blood stupidity in the streets, they say.

    .


    * I hope you are doing well, Mr. D.

    ** Got no idea exactly where it is, but I can spell it without looking at a map, so there's that ...

    Replies: @Flip, @AndrewR, @J.Ross, @Hypnotoad666

    , @Desiderius
    @Hypnotoad666

    If you're serious you stick with what you know (and more importantly your ancestors knew) and make a go at that instead of trying to re-invent the wheel on the fly. People survived the Bronze Age Collapse in the mountains. Mountains are closer than islands and you're more likely to have relatives there.

    Among the things that have evidently eluded Steve's attention is the fact that NZ is ruled by an insane Wokel and her cabal. Appearing that such awareness is generationally firewalled.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    , @Triteleia Laxa
    @Hypnotoad666

    They're too small to retain a complex society. You'll be crafting your own shoes from straw and trying to learn how to spear fish, while I'll be going to the theatre after a meal out of roast lamb. More seriously, it'll be antibiotics for me and back to leeches for you.

    I hope they give sufficient warning for the apocalypse so I can make it to New Zealand. Could a handful of enthusiastic beginners steal a yacht and teach themselves how to sail across the world on the fly? Circumnavigation for dummies?

    Replies: @Captain Tripps, @Mobi

    , @jamie b.
    @Hypnotoad666

    I've always had an interest in Kerguelen island.

  7. In early 1982 there was a family that moved to the Falkland Islands as they were sure that it would be a safe haven if a global nuclear exchange happened between NATO and the Warsaw pact.

    • LOL: acementhead
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @AKAHorace

    Ran out, but LOL!

    Ditto for Gaspar and Almost Missouri re. the Hobbits.

    As far as your questions go, A.M., when you see the fourth horseperson of the Apocalypse, it's time to kiss your mutton goodbye and get ready.

  8. Riding out the apocalypse in New Zealand sounds pretty good, so long as you like mutton.

    And can put up with the likes of Liam “I do stupid stuff on camera” Thompson.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU5O8FCtOTI4BWhfHF2LHJw

    “I Taught My Dog to Play Minecraft”, indeed.

    Cqn you pronounce Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu
    ? That’s almost as long as Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­chwyrn­drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­goch and Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg combined.

    • Replies: @RichardTaylor
    @Reg Cæsar

    I thought all the palefaces were White Flighting to Minnesota?

    Hey man, whatever happened to Minnesota Nice?

    https://nypost.com/2021/07/29/minnesota-woman-allegedly-beheaded-in-broad-daylight-by-boyfriend/

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Anon, @Fred C Dobbs, @Peter D. Bredon

    , @Kratoklastes
    @Reg Cæsar

    Anyone who watched "The Kenny Everett Video Show" can do it to a pakeha approximation: it was part of the opening credits back in the 80s.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3lKOUfsjNI

    That said: the iwi to whom the place belongs - Ngāti Kahungunu - pronounce 'wh' as 'f', so the 'whaka' is pronounced 'fucka' and 'whenua' is pronounced 'fenua'.

    So it's Taumata-whakatangihanga-koauau-o-Tamatea-haumai-tawhiti-ure-haea-turi-pukaka-piki-maunga-horo-nuku-pokai-whenua-ki-tana-tahu.

    But as I said before, it's all rather academic because New Zealand doesn't exist: it's all made up. Nothing to see. Let's encourage every one to stay where they are and save the airfare.

    Seriously, it's for the best.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @22pp22

  9. @Hypnotoad666
    New Zealand is for rookie apocalypse riders. St. Helena, The Azores, or maybe Pitcarin Island are good choices if you are serious.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @PaceLaw, @Achmed E. Newman, @Desiderius, @Triteleia Laxa, @jamie b.

    One wonders how many apocalypses one must ride out before graduating from “rookie” to “serious”?

    At five apocalypses does one become an “ace”?

    • LOL: AnotherDad
    • Replies: @Cortes
    @Almost Missouri

    After five, you qualify for your microlight “wings” and the coordinates for

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inaccessible_Island

    , @Charles
    @Almost Missouri

    True and true again; after the first one most everyone will be a goner.

  10. anon[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason
    Although Dickens wrote about families tucking into legs of roast mutton, hardly anybody today knows what mutton tastes like, although I understand it is very good.

    The market for mutton seems to be completely replaced with lamb.

    Doesn't sound like post-apocalyptic New Zealand would be a very good place for vegans.

    Replies: @anon, @Clyde, @Charon, @slumber_j, @Bozo the Clown, @Anon, @Muggles

    hardly anybody today knows what mutton tastes like

    I had it as a kid and remember it as gamey/smelly and tough so it was boiled.
    It was pretty much for poor people, but is probably now a hipster fave like all the other shitty cuts of meat we used to eat.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @anon


    It was pretty much for poor people, but is probably now a hipster fave like all the other shitty cuts of meat we used to eat.

     

    Being a hipster means accepting one's social and material decline with style.
    , @donut
    @anon

    I asked an older (older than me) guy at the meat dept. of my local market about mutton once and that's exactly what he told me .

    Replies: @Ed Case

  11. @Almost Missouri
    @Hypnotoad666

    One wonders how many apocalypses one must ride out before graduating from "rookie" to "serious"?

    At five apocalypses does one become an "ace"?

    Replies: @Cortes, @Charles

    After five, you qualify for your microlight “wings” and the coordinates for

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inaccessible_Island

  12. @Almost Missouri
    @Hypnotoad666

    One wonders how many apocalypses one must ride out before graduating from "rookie" to "serious"?

    At five apocalypses does one become an "ace"?

    Replies: @Cortes, @Charles

    True and true again; after the first one most everyone will be a goner.

  13. Hold the presses! Newsflash! Click below to discover WHY iSteve is slow in moderation:

    • Replies: @Gaspar DeLaFunk
    @Stan d Mute

    The other guy is Jack D! :)

  14. If there is a scramble for available women during the crisis,I suppose the abundance of sheep would be a positive.

    • LOL: PaceLaw
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Gaspar DeLaFunk

    It's The End Of The World As We Know It, and The Sheep Aren't Fine.

  15. People who live in isolation from the world stagnate, and this would be the case in New Zealand after global collapse.
    People who live at the crossroads of civilizations suffer war and tyranny, but the winners prosper and advance civilization.
    If Rome falls you want to be in France, even though that is where the wars are happening, not Britain, a backwater. You just need to win the wars.
    If there were global collapse the United States of America would be the best place on earth to be. The wars to reclaim the country would be glorious.

    • Replies: @jamie b.
    @rebel yell

    Could you give examples of what do you mean by 'stagnate'? 5 million people live in NZ. That's surely far more than enough to avoid memetic 'allele fixation.'

    Replies: @rebel yell

  16. Only people with little knowledge of New Zealand would believe this.

    • Agree: Ed Case
    • Replies: @22pp22
    @Tusk

    Actually, smalltown New Zealanders can be amazingly self-sufficient. The country has its faults - plenty of them - but within a few years it would be producing its own aircraft and pharmaceuticals.

    I was born in Britain, but I am a Kiwi citizen who now lives near Brisbane. I have lived in Japan, Korea, Cyprus, Germany and Costa Rica and I would give Kiwis are better chance of maintaining civilization than anyone else.

    In fact, removing easy access to narcotics would improve the country out of all recognition. Covid 19 has put a temporary stop to immigration. It has had a wonderful effect on wages and attitudes.

    Replies: @rooshavesmallheads, @Mike1

  17. @Hypnotoad666
    New Zealand is for rookie apocalypse riders. St. Helena, The Azores, or maybe Pitcarin Island are good choices if you are serious.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @PaceLaw, @Achmed E. Newman, @Desiderius, @Triteleia Laxa, @jamie b.

    So there’s a circuit for “apocalypse riders“??? How sad! People blowing extravagant sums of money on some sort of magical redoubt from climate change or nuclear war. I guess the wealthy will always find some new ways to waste their money.

  18. Last time I was in NewZealand they were celebrating diversity.

    • Replies: @lavoisier
    @Foreign Expert

    Indeed. Many people in New Zealand are like the dodo bird, not realizing that their security and their way of life will go to hell if they continue to embrace diversity.

    White liberals protected from diversity are always full on board with diversity--because they are totally clueless about what diversity will bring.

    Replies: @Joseph Doaks

    , @loren
    @Foreign Expert

    they still are.

    lockdown.

    tranny? leader.

  19. New Zealand is now within the Chinese sphere of influence so it would be quickly captured if there were a global social collapse. Besides in the runup to the Chinese invasion, billionaires colonising NZ means it would be internally and eternally pozzed. The rich would buy up all the land a monopolise it. Then they would import cheap and culturally dangerous labour to work their land since they would never stoop to pay the deplorable locals fair wages.

    One place I think is super resilient is eastern Tennessee and the general area around it. The one factor that is worrying is Blackrock buying up property around there. The good people of Tennessee would need to liberate any Blackrock holdings and then purge themselves of any cuck GOP remnants. After that they would be good to go.

    Hungary seems like a reasonable bet in Europe. They are woke to both the JQ and the IQ (having been partially colonised by the Ottomans).

    With the vax narrative in literal freefall, there is very likely to soon be serious strife in the US; The cognitive elite have gone all in on the vax. They may soon themselves lifelong jab-junkies, desperately jonesing for that next booster to ward off stalking ADE. Israel is facing a potential Shoah, they are even vaxxing children. The narcissism of the cognitive elite may not accept being outsmarted by midwit anti-vaxxers. They may attempt to mandate the vax with an implied threat of violence. When the spectre of unvaxxed young adults being rounded up and jabbed with the ADE juice enters the popular mind, there could be serious strife and resistance. I hope cooler minds prevail and the vaxxed accept their coming L with magnanimity.

    • Replies: @Rob
    @Torn and Frayed

    Y’all who talk about antibody-dependent enhancement. You are aware that ADE is fantastically rare, right? You are also aware that if a vaccine causes ADE, the immune reaction to the disease almost certainly causes ADE as well. You guys do know this, right?

    Replies: @Torn and Frayed

  20. @Reg Cæsar

    Riding out the apocalypse in New Zealand sounds pretty good, so long as you like mutton.
     
    And can put up with the likes of Liam "I do stupid stuff on camera" Thompson.

    https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCU5O8FCtOTI4BWhfHF2LHJw


    "I Taught My Dog to Play Minecraft", indeed.


    Cqn you pronounce Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu
    ? That's almost as long as Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­chwyrn­drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­goch and Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg combined.

    https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/l/i/0/t/r/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1420x800.1li0tv.png/1561426972858.jpg

    Replies: @RichardTaylor, @Kratoklastes

    I thought all the palefaces were White Flighting to Minnesota?

    Hey man, whatever happened to Minnesota Nice?

    https://nypost.com/2021/07/29/minnesota-woman-allegedly-beheaded-in-broad-daylight-by-boyfriend/

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @RichardTaylor

    It's not Mogadishu Mean

    Replies: @Muggles

    , @Anon
    @RichardTaylor

    Women tend to have better social IQs than men because there is a Darwinian penalty for women who hook up with the wrong guy. Any normal woman could have looked at her boyfriend and immediately noticed that the guy had that dead sociopath stabby stare. Normal women would have been scared away by the mere sight of him.

    When low social IQ women disappear from the gene pool, it makes the survivor women look smart in comparison. This is why you should not waste your time lamenting a mudshark woman who is killed by her black boyfriend. She just doesn't have an ounce of common sense.

    By the way, when a woman dates a violent guy, she often is carrying sociopathic genes herself, and she thinks his nasty antics are fun--at least when not turned against herself--instead of evil because she doesn't give a damn about right and wrong.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @Fred C Dobbs
    @RichardTaylor

    B/c it's no longer 98% white like it was in 1960, silly.

    , @Peter D. Bredon
    @RichardTaylor

    The combination of "broad daylight" and "allegedly by" is amusing. Like it was a magic trick.

  21. Best Place to Ride Out a Global Societal Collapse Is New Zealand, Study Finds

    Hobbits least hardest hit.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Almost Missouri

    When you have seen one Eye of Soros, you have seen them all.

  22. • Replies: @Charon
    @Anon

    That's just typical television nowadays.

    , @SunBakedSuburb
    @Anon

    "CBS ... SWAT"

    The writer's room for SWAT: FBI script supervisor, black lady commissar, submission to the failing vaccine for admission. Poor slobs. And they had it so good for a while, cranking out lazy scripts for too much money.

  23. North Sentinel Island would have to be the most iSteve choice. Partially inbred and with the world’s strictest immigration policy to boot. Presumably their crops are rotting on the trees, but I can help with that.

  24. @Stan d Mute
    Hold the presses! Newsflash! Click below to discover WHY iSteve is slow in moderation:



    Tell me that the guy on the right isn’t Steve Sailer!

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/two-men-develop-oozing-boils-faces-receiving-moderna-jab/?utm_source=Gab&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons

    Replies: @Gaspar DeLaFunk

    The other guy is Jack D! 🙂

    • LOL: Stan d Mute
  25. On the downside, you’d probably have to pledge loyalty to Jacinda Ardern. I think I’d rather take my chances with the roving bands of Pfizer zombies than bow to the cult of the horse-toothed lady.

    • Replies: @loren
    @Sergeant Prepper

    woman or tranny?

  26. Fun fact: New Zealand has (or at least had until very recently) the highest rate of burglaries in the world, while USA actually rated 18th. (source: https://knoema.com/atlas/ranks/Burglary-rate)… and that’s even before any ‘societal collapse’ 🙂

  27. @Almost Missouri

    Best Place to Ride Out a Global Societal Collapse Is New Zealand, Study Finds
     
    Hobbits least hardest hit.

    Replies: @El Dato

    When you have seen one Eye of Soros, you have seen them all.

  28. @Gaspar DeLaFunk
    If there is a scramble for available women during the crisis,I suppose the abundance of sheep would be a positive.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    It’s The End Of The World As We Know It, and The Sheep Aren’t Fine.

  29. ….caused by the likes of climate change, a pandemic, a financial collapse or other cataclysmic disruptions.

    Oh yeah, just stick it in there 3rd, so as not to alert anyone. Any rider-outer is bound to have a little bit of smarts, which means they know #1 is all BS and #2 has been tried and found wanting. It’ll be door #3 and I’ll bet you a 100 kg. of mutton on it. (Nothing else I bet you will be worth collecting on.)

    • Agree: Adam Smith
    • Replies: @Clyde
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I would like to try mutton. It is not available in the US because it is too gamey for Americans. Keens steak house in NYC famously serves it. Though on the internet some say they simply offer a more aged lamb, not real mutton. Today where are such disputes settled? On you tube of course! I see a few videos I will check out. Real mutton from sheep is eaten around the world, where people are hungry and aren't so fancy. Sounds good with a pint or two of Guinness.

    "Keens Steakhouse is known as the last bastion of the mutton chop, a dish that has fallen entirely out of favor in the rest of the city's chophouses. According to executive chef William Rodgers, who has helmed the kitchen at Keens for the last decade, it continues to be amongst the most popular menu items."

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @stillCARealist, @John Mansfield, @Peter D. Bredon

  30. @Hypnotoad666
    New Zealand is for rookie apocalypse riders. St. Helena, The Azores, or maybe Pitcarin Island are good choices if you are serious.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @PaceLaw, @Achmed E. Newman, @Desiderius, @Triteleia Laxa, @jamie b.

    Hypno, I had been thinking of Uruguay even before John Derbyshire* started bring it up, but was hesitant to write much in fear of some of you peons following me and my Davos buddies on down there. There’s no real estate for sale there anyway. No, I mean NOTHING, not even a place for rent.

    Now, I’m thinking perhaps a real shithole country like Surinam or Burkina Faso**, maybe Madagascar. For one thing, nobody wants to invade. Also, whether it’s Global Climate Disruption™, a plandemic, or the expected financial collapse, the place can only get better from it. Buy when there blood stupidity in the streets, they say.

    .

    * I hope you are doing well, Mr. D.

    ** Got no idea exactly where it is, but I can spell it without looking at a map, so there’s that …

    • Replies: @Flip
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Doug Casey has an estancia outside Punta del Este in Uruguay and says he's going to watch the coming collapse from his wide screen TV.

    , @AndrewR
    @Achmed E. Newman

    There are many American retirees in Punta del Este. But the country is big enough that I'm sure it's not too hard to find a place in the interior at least. Obviously one would want to know plenty of Uruguasho

    , @J.Ross
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Burkina Faso is part of that little cluster of small nations in North-West Africa (following the lower and oiter edge of the "brain box," insofar as Africa looks like a skull, with Somalia as the nose and South Africa as the jaw). The capital is Ouagadogo.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Achmed E. Newman

    If you are already looking in the neighborhood, you may want to consider Paraguay. It worked for Dr. Mengele. http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2098534,00.html

  31. @AKAHorace
    In early 1982 there was a family that moved to the Falkland Islands as they were sure that it would be a safe haven if a global nuclear exchange happened between NATO and the Warsaw pact.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Ran out, but LOL!

    Ditto for Gaspar and Almost Missouri re. the Hobbits.

    As far as your questions go, A.M., when you see the fourth horseperson of the Apocalypse, it’s time to kiss your mutton goodbye and get ready.

  32. @anon
    @Jonathan Mason


    hardly anybody today knows what mutton tastes like
     
    I had it as a kid and remember it as gamey/smelly and tough so it was boiled.
    It was pretty much for poor people, but is probably now a hipster fave like all the other shitty cuts of meat we used to eat.

    Replies: @Pericles, @donut

    It was pretty much for poor people, but is probably now a hipster fave like all the other shitty cuts of meat we used to eat.

    Being a hipster means accepting one’s social and material decline with style.

  33. @Achmed E. Newman

    ....caused by the likes of climate change, a pandemic, a financial collapse or other cataclysmic disruptions.
     
    Oh yeah, just stick it in there 3rd, so as not to alert anyone. Any rider-outer is bound to have a little bit of smarts, which means they know #1 is all BS and #2 has been tried and found wanting. It'll be door #3 and I'll bet you a 100 kg. of mutton on it. (Nothing else I bet you will be worth collecting on.)

    Replies: @Clyde

    I would like to try mutton. It is not available in the US because it is too gamey for Americans. Keens steak house in NYC famously serves it. Though on the internet some say they simply offer a more aged lamb, not real mutton. Today where are such disputes settled? On you tube of course! I see a few videos I will check out. Real mutton from sheep is eaten around the world, where people are hungry and aren’t so fancy. Sounds good with a pint or two of Guinness.

    “Keens Steakhouse is known as the last bastion of the mutton chop, a dish that has fallen entirely out of favor in the rest of the city’s chophouses. According to executive chef William Rodgers, who has helmed the kitchen at Keens for the last decade, it continues to be amongst the most popular menu items.”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Clyde

    I had mutton as a child in the 1960s. I didn't like it much.

    Lamb with mint sauce was much better.

    Replies: @Clyde, @Cortes, @Eric F

    , @stillCARealist
    @Clyde

    "aged lamb"

    Isn't that the same as a sheep?

    "a pint or two of Guinness"

    You could cook up a dead rat and it would be good after two pints of Guinness. Particularly those British pints that are 22 oz. each.

    Replies: @Clyde

    , @John Mansfield
    @Clyde

    If you are looking for mutton, try a Navajo restaurant in the Four Corners.

    Replies: @Clyde

    , @Peter D. Bredon
    @Clyde

    There's a whole Seinfeld episode based around Jerry's girlfriend of the week, who's a meat fanatic.

    https://youtu.be/b-HisCMWaso

    Earlier they went to a steakhouse and Jerry ordered a salad. The exterior shot as usual was wrong, some place on Ninth Avenue (forget the name) not Keen's.

  34. @Foreign Expert
    Last time I was in NewZealand they were celebrating diversity.

    Replies: @lavoisier, @loren

    Indeed. Many people in New Zealand are like the dodo bird, not realizing that their security and their way of life will go to hell if they continue to embrace diversity.

    White liberals protected from diversity are always full on board with diversity–because they are totally clueless about what diversity will bring.

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks
    • Replies: @Joseph Doaks
    @lavoisier

    "White liberals protected from diversity are always full on board with diversity–because they are totally clueless about what diversity will bring."

    Like when 90% white Iowa gave Obama his first big victory.

  35. @Jonathan Mason
    Although Dickens wrote about families tucking into legs of roast mutton, hardly anybody today knows what mutton tastes like, although I understand it is very good.

    The market for mutton seems to be completely replaced with lamb.

    Doesn't sound like post-apocalyptic New Zealand would be a very good place for vegans.

    Replies: @anon, @Clyde, @Charon, @slumber_j, @Bozo the Clown, @Anon, @Muggles

    Although Dickens wrote about families tucking into legs of roast mutton…….
    The market for mutton seems to be completely replaced with lamb.

    True about that replacement. What happens with all the old sheep that must be disposed of? Perhaps their meat (mutton) is exported or put into dog food.

  36. the researchers said they were surprised by a relatively strong showing from Britain

    Does that mean they were a bunch of lefties happy to do their own country down, but retaining just enough integrity to admit to the result?

    Anyway, how about Uruguay? No earthquakes there, as far as I know.

    • Replies: @anon
    @dearieme

    Anyway, how about Uruguay?

    Shares a land border with Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  37. @Clyde
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I would like to try mutton. It is not available in the US because it is too gamey for Americans. Keens steak house in NYC famously serves it. Though on the internet some say they simply offer a more aged lamb, not real mutton. Today where are such disputes settled? On you tube of course! I see a few videos I will check out. Real mutton from sheep is eaten around the world, where people are hungry and aren't so fancy. Sounds good with a pint or two of Guinness.

    "Keens Steakhouse is known as the last bastion of the mutton chop, a dish that has fallen entirely out of favor in the rest of the city's chophouses. According to executive chef William Rodgers, who has helmed the kitchen at Keens for the last decade, it continues to be amongst the most popular menu items."

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @stillCARealist, @John Mansfield, @Peter D. Bredon

    I had mutton as a child in the 1960s. I didn’t like it much.

    Lamb with mint sauce was much better.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @Steve Sailer


    I had mutton as a child in the 1960s. I didn’t like it much.
     
    It must have made an impression! My mother made lamb burgers which no one else was doing. I liked them.
    , @Cortes
    @Steve Sailer

    Maybe try Nancy Pelosi: mutton dressed as lamb?

    , @Eric F
    @Steve Sailer

    Owensboro Kentucky has a BBQ mutton joint that'll knock your socks off. Highly recommended. Old Hickory Bar-B-Que. I think that entire area of western Kentucky is mutton central though.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

  38. @Steve Sailer
    @Clyde

    I had mutton as a child in the 1960s. I didn't like it much.

    Lamb with mint sauce was much better.

    Replies: @Clyde, @Cortes, @Eric F

    I had mutton as a child in the 1960s. I didn’t like it much.

    It must have made an impression! My mother made lamb burgers which no one else was doing. I liked them.

  39. @Jonathan Mason
    Although Dickens wrote about families tucking into legs of roast mutton, hardly anybody today knows what mutton tastes like, although I understand it is very good.

    The market for mutton seems to be completely replaced with lamb.

    Doesn't sound like post-apocalyptic New Zealand would be a very good place for vegans.

    Replies: @anon, @Clyde, @Charon, @slumber_j, @Bozo the Clown, @Anon, @Muggles

    Hmm. I defy any of you red-blooded carnivores to watch a lamb or calf frolicking in a meadow for three minutes and then tell me it should have its throat cut just so you can have another variety of meat you don’t need.

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
  40. @Anon
    Peter Thiel is a pretty smart guy.

    New Zealand citizenship[edit]

    Thiel was a German citizen by birth, and became an American citizen by naturalization.[163] He became a New Zealand citizen in 2011, which became public in 2017.[164] In 2015, he purchased a 193-hectare estate near Wanaka, which fitted the classification of "sensitive land" and required foreign buyers to obtain permission from New Zealand's Overseas Investment Office. Thiel did not require permission as he was a citizen.[165]

    He had received permanent residency in New Zealand in 2007.[166][167] He had visited the country on four occasions prior to his application for citizenship,[168] and had spent 12 days in New Zealand, fewer than the typical residency requirement of 1350 days.[169] When he applied, he stated he had no intention of living in New Zealand, which is a criterion for citizenship.[170] Then-Minister of Internal Affairs Nathan Guy waived those normal requirements, under an "exceptional circumstances" clause of the Citizenships Act.[164][168][170]

    Thiel's application cited his contribution to the economy—he had founded a venture capital fund in Auckland before applying, and invested $7 million in two local companies—as well as a $1 million donation to the 2011 Christchurch earthquake appeal fund.[168] Rod Drury, founder of Xero, also provided a formal reference for Thiel's application.[164] Thiel's case was cited by critics as an example that New Zealand passports can be bought,[168][171] something the New Zealand government denied.[168] At the time that his citizenship was revealed, The New Zealand Herald came out with the report that the New Zealand Defence Force, the Security Intelligence Service and the Government Communications and Security Bureau have long-standing links with Thiel's Palantir.[172]
     

    Replies: @Sick of Orcs, @Triteleia Laxa, @Bill Jones, @Mobi

    Good news for Thiel: in an emergency, Palantir stock can be used as toilet paper.

  41. @Pop Warner
    Alex Jones has been saying for years that the elite will flee to New Zealand when things go bad. Is wapo admitting that Jones is right?

    Replies: @Charon, @J.Ross, @Bill, @Muggles

    The richest person I know maintains two houses in NZ, but hardly ever visits. Too far away from everything!

  42. @Anon
    https://twitter.com/YungSpengler/status/1420571590924845060

    https://twitter.com/YungSpengler/status/1420575651006922755

    Replies: @Charon, @SunBakedSuburb

    That’s just typical television nowadays.

  43. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Hypnotoad666

    Hypno, I had been thinking of Uruguay even before John Derbyshire* started bring it up, but was hesitant to write much in fear of some of you peons following me and my Davos buddies on down there. There's no real estate for sale there anyway. No, I mean NOTHING, not even a place for rent.

    Now, I'm thinking perhaps a real shithole country like Surinam or Burkina Faso**, maybe Madagascar. For one thing, nobody wants to invade. Also, whether it's Global Climate Disruption™, a plandemic, or the expected financial collapse, the place can only get better from it. Buy when there blood stupidity in the streets, they say.

    .


    * I hope you are doing well, Mr. D.

    ** Got no idea exactly where it is, but I can spell it without looking at a map, so there's that ...

    Replies: @Flip, @AndrewR, @J.Ross, @Hypnotoad666

    Doug Casey has an estancia outside Punta del Este in Uruguay and says he’s going to watch the coming collapse from his wide screen TV.

  44. Regarding New Zealand, the post topic: I was hoping it may have changed by now, but the woke idiot Jacinda Kate Laurell Ardern is still Prime Minister. Don’t let the white bread name fool you – she is a piece of work, as Peak Stupidity discussed in Affirmative Action for the marble-supply-challenged. That post shows appropriate attire for current Western “leaders” – a straight jacket.

    Oh, and if can’t bring at least half my guns, I dunno, we’re going to have to take a stand here.

    • Replies: @James J O'Meara
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I seem to recall that although not actually converting to Islam, she began to wear a hijab to show some kind of "solidarity", perhaps with the insane. Like all these she-leaders, she has those crazy eyes.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  45. @Tusk
    Only people with little knowledge of New Zealand would believe this.

    Replies: @22pp22

    Actually, smalltown New Zealanders can be amazingly self-sufficient. The country has its faults – plenty of them – but within a few years it would be producing its own aircraft and pharmaceuticals.

    I was born in Britain, but I am a Kiwi citizen who now lives near Brisbane. I have lived in Japan, Korea, Cyprus, Germany and Costa Rica and I would give Kiwis are better chance of maintaining civilization than anyone else.

    In fact, removing easy access to narcotics would improve the country out of all recognition. Covid 19 has put a temporary stop to immigration. It has had a wonderful effect on wages and attitudes.

    • Thanks: Desiderius
    • Replies: @rooshavesmallheads
    @22pp22

    You people sure like moving don't cha, stay on your own island man.Don't pollute Aasia with your dirty culture and prescence that dirty culture and genes the black americans have.

    Replies: @22pp22, @22pp22

    , @Mike1
    @22pp22

    It must have been a while since you lived there. The #8 wire mentality is dead and buried. Current NZers are staggeringly incompetent. They have all lived off their home equity for decades now.

    The country is currently aggressively getting rid of their last echos of manufacturing. The idea they could build anything beyond a horse shoe if things got weird is absurd. If you've lived there you would also know they have driven out any bright person that accidentally gets born there.

    Have you been there since covid? It is still a fully immigrant staffed country and the attitudes haven't changed.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @22pp22

  46. @anon
    @Jonathan Mason


    hardly anybody today knows what mutton tastes like
     
    I had it as a kid and remember it as gamey/smelly and tough so it was boiled.
    It was pretty much for poor people, but is probably now a hipster fave like all the other shitty cuts of meat we used to eat.

    Replies: @Pericles, @donut

    I asked an older (older than me) guy at the meat dept. of my local market about mutton once and that’s exactly what he told me .

    • Replies: @Ed Case
    @donut

    The older Butchers where I buy meat remember Mutton.
    It's quite a bit bigger than Lamb, one of the old Sydney Cuts was a Square Cut Shoulder.

    Basically, the flap [brisket], shank and neck was removed, the chine [spine] was cross cut on the saw to define the cutlets, and the shoulder was then separated in two along the seam.
    The sailbone side was a Roast and the cutlets side went into a stew.

    Plenty of Mutton is still processed in Australia for Export, mostly to the Middle East or ground up for Meat Pies, still quite popular in Australia.

  47. @Hypnotoad666
    New Zealand is for rookie apocalypse riders. St. Helena, The Azores, or maybe Pitcarin Island are good choices if you are serious.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @PaceLaw, @Achmed E. Newman, @Desiderius, @Triteleia Laxa, @jamie b.

    If you’re serious you stick with what you know (and more importantly your ancestors knew) and make a go at that instead of trying to re-invent the wheel on the fly. People survived the Bronze Age Collapse in the mountains. Mountains are closer than islands and you’re more likely to have relatives there.

    Among the things that have evidently eluded Steve’s attention is the fact that NZ is ruled by an insane Wokel and her cabal. Appearing that such awareness is generationally firewalled.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Desiderius

    "evidently eluded Steve's attention is the fact that NZ is ruled by an insane Wokel and her cabal"

    She's a witch. An actual witch.

  48. New Zealand is a police state worse than England with
    a maniac Woke female Prime Minister. Populated
    in part with can do no wrong Maoris. Killer Pfizer/
    Moderna Jabs will do the population in.

    You’re living in Tooth Fairy Land Stevei. Enjoy
    what little time you have left.

  49. “Islands in temperate regions and with low population densities generally came out on top.”

    1. New Zealand
    2. Tasmania
    3. Hokkaido
    4. Vancouver Island
    5. Newfoundland
    6. Iceland
    7. Greenland
    8. Tierra del Fuego
    9. Ireland
    10. Britain

    As an aside, curried mutton pies and sausages are some of the best tasting foods in the universe.

  50. They’re trying to play NKVD but just stopping at employment and you know little stuff like… banking. Here’s one they’ve recently gotten:

    Will be interesting to see how it ends up playing out.

  51. jb says:

    Here’s an interesting speculative article from UnHerd about how a repeat of the Carrington Event could lead to human extinction. (It places the last humans on Earth on the island of Comoros).

    How the sun could wipe us out

    I’d been aware of the Carrington Event and its potential for disruption, but the article added a number of twists that hadn’t occurred to me. What’s long been apparent to me though is how quickly the world would go to hell for anyone living in a densely populated area if any sort of widespread disaster were to interrupt food deliveries for two or three weeks — something I think the Coronavirus could easily have accomplished if the initial variant had been Delta contagious and had a fatality rate of 5% or thereabouts.

    Oh, and if you want some real nightmare fuel, how about a human version of RHD2? It’s highly contagious, highly lethal, and can stick around on surfaces or in dust for months. Given how quickly our biotechnology is advancing, how long before some depressed graduate student decides that it really is all pointless?

  52. The best place to ride out the apocalypse is at the mall with 3 of your best buds, and 5 hot chicks. [The extra hot chick keeps things balanced. No jealousy amongst your buds, and it ensures that none of the babes gets attitudinal. ]

  53. David Hackett Fischer, author of Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America:


    [MORE]

    Fairness and Freedom compares the history of two open societies–New Zealand and the United States–with much in common. Both have democratic polities, mixed-enterprise economies, individuated societies, pluralist cultures, and a deep concern for human rights and the rule of law. But all of these elements take different forms, because constellations of value are far apart. The dream of living free is America’s Polaris; fairness and natural justice are New Zealand’s Southern Cross.

    Fischer asks why these similar countries went different ways. Both were founded by English-speaking colonists, but at different times and with disparate purposes. They lived in the first and second British Empires, which operated in very different ways. Indians and Maori were important agents of change, but to different ends. On the American frontier and in New Zealand’s Bush, material possibilities and moral choices were not the same. Fischer takes the same comparative approach to parallel processes of nation-building and immigration, women’s rights and racial wrongs, reform causes and conservative responses, war-fighting and peace-making, and global engagement in our own time–with similar results.

    On another level, this book expands Fischer’s past work on liberty and freedom. It is the first book to be published on the history of fairness. And it also poses new questions in the old tradition of history and moral philosophy. Is it possible to be both fair and free? In a vast array of evidence, Fischer finds that the strengths of these great values are needed to correct their weaknesses. As many societies seek to become more open–never twice in the same way, an understanding of our differences is the only path to peace.

    • Thanks: Joseph Doaks
  54. @Jonathan Mason
    Although Dickens wrote about families tucking into legs of roast mutton, hardly anybody today knows what mutton tastes like, although I understand it is very good.

    The market for mutton seems to be completely replaced with lamb.

    Doesn't sound like post-apocalyptic New Zealand would be a very good place for vegans.

    Replies: @anon, @Clyde, @Charon, @slumber_j, @Bozo the Clown, @Anon, @Muggles

    I learned from ex-Top Gear guy Jeremy Clarkson’s new show Clarkson’s Farm that mutton is in fact widely if mostly unwittingly consumed in the UK at least: the “lamb” in your typical British “Indian” (actually Pakistani in almost all cases) restaurant is in fact mutton.

    Kiwis would argue that Australian lamb is mutton. And almost anyone would argue that most of the lamb that’s eaten in the US is mutton: in order to qualify as lamb in the USA, a sheep just has to be under one year old. Guess how old most of the sheep we eat are…

    The one place I know of in the US that openly serves and indeed celebrates mutton is the excellent Keens Steakhouse in Manhattan, my favorite place for meat in NYC–more dependably good than the vastly overrated Peter Luger in my experience. Their mutton chop is really, really good, their most famous dish and like most steakhouse meat items actually pretty reasonable if you split it between two people as you should.

    • Replies: @Ed Case
    @slumber_j

    Sheep are graded as Lamb, Hogget or Mutton as the carcase passes over the scales at the abattoir.
    Hogget looks similar to Lamb, but a bit larger usually.
    The difference is that Lambs have a bit of bone the size and shape of a large rose thorn where the 2 sides of the pelvis meet, jutting out into the visceral cavity.
    It's not seen but it's easily felt.
    It's completely absent in Hogget, and Sheep of whatever size are distinguishable by a different body shape and carcase appearance.

    Replies: @slumber_j

  55. @lavoisier
    @Foreign Expert

    Indeed. Many people in New Zealand are like the dodo bird, not realizing that their security and their way of life will go to hell if they continue to embrace diversity.

    White liberals protected from diversity are always full on board with diversity--because they are totally clueless about what diversity will bring.

    Replies: @Joseph Doaks

    “White liberals protected from diversity are always full on board with diversity–because they are totally clueless about what diversity will bring.”

    Like when 90% white Iowa gave Obama his first big victory.

  56. IIRC James Cameron sunk quite a chunk of his Titanic/Avatar profits into a sheep ranch in New Zealand.

    OT – why did Avatar leave such a modest cultural footprint?

  57. @22pp22
    @Tusk

    Actually, smalltown New Zealanders can be amazingly self-sufficient. The country has its faults - plenty of them - but within a few years it would be producing its own aircraft and pharmaceuticals.

    I was born in Britain, but I am a Kiwi citizen who now lives near Brisbane. I have lived in Japan, Korea, Cyprus, Germany and Costa Rica and I would give Kiwis are better chance of maintaining civilization than anyone else.

    In fact, removing easy access to narcotics would improve the country out of all recognition. Covid 19 has put a temporary stop to immigration. It has had a wonderful effect on wages and attitudes.

    Replies: @rooshavesmallheads, @Mike1

    You people sure like moving don’t cha, stay on your own island man.Don’t pollute Aasia with your dirty culture and prescence that dirty culture and genes the black americans have.

    • Replies: @22pp22
    @rooshavesmallheads

    I have zero desire to go back to Asia. Also, would the Asians kindly stay in Asia. They seem to have an irrepressible desire to move to Western countries.

    , @22pp22
    @rooshavesmallheads

    I have zero desire to go back to Asia or to interact with Asian people. I forewent the opportunity to live there permanently. Also, would the Asians kindly stay in Asia. They seem to have an irrepressible desire to move to Western countries.

  58. @James Speaks
    Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over, California ain't too shabby.


    *Roughly 3-4 months in winter, about a week during a summer heat wave.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @anon

    Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over, California ain’t too shabby.

    Water is going to be an issue, though.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @kaganovitch

    Reduced rainfall yields reduced surface water. I'll grant you that. But triply reduced population yields more water per capita. Zombie apocalypses aren't know for being times of population growth, unless you mean the growths on the side of the head of some zombie.

    Replies: @SaneClownPosse

  59. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Hypnotoad666

    Hypno, I had been thinking of Uruguay even before John Derbyshire* started bring it up, but was hesitant to write much in fear of some of you peons following me and my Davos buddies on down there. There's no real estate for sale there anyway. No, I mean NOTHING, not even a place for rent.

    Now, I'm thinking perhaps a real shithole country like Surinam or Burkina Faso**, maybe Madagascar. For one thing, nobody wants to invade. Also, whether it's Global Climate Disruption™, a plandemic, or the expected financial collapse, the place can only get better from it. Buy when there blood stupidity in the streets, they say.

    .


    * I hope you are doing well, Mr. D.

    ** Got no idea exactly where it is, but I can spell it without looking at a map, so there's that ...

    Replies: @Flip, @AndrewR, @J.Ross, @Hypnotoad666

    There are many American retirees in Punta del Este. But the country is big enough that I’m sure it’s not too hard to find a place in the interior at least. Obviously one would want to know plenty of Uruguasho

  60. Riding out the apocalypse in New Zealand sounds pretty good, so long as you like mutton.

    And you don’t mind the occasional house-flattening earthquake.

  61. @RichardTaylor
    @Reg Cæsar

    I thought all the palefaces were White Flighting to Minnesota?

    Hey man, whatever happened to Minnesota Nice?

    https://nypost.com/2021/07/29/minnesota-woman-allegedly-beheaded-in-broad-daylight-by-boyfriend/

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Anon, @Fred C Dobbs, @Peter D. Bredon

    It’s not Mogadishu Mean

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @AndrewR


    It’s not Mogadishu Mean
     
    That reminds me, I just saw a news blurb about a headless woman's body found on some Minnesota sidewalk.

    Those crazy Somalis!
  62. Anon[356] • Disclaimer says:
    @RichardTaylor
    @Reg Cæsar

    I thought all the palefaces were White Flighting to Minnesota?

    Hey man, whatever happened to Minnesota Nice?

    https://nypost.com/2021/07/29/minnesota-woman-allegedly-beheaded-in-broad-daylight-by-boyfriend/

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Anon, @Fred C Dobbs, @Peter D. Bredon

    Women tend to have better social IQs than men because there is a Darwinian penalty for women who hook up with the wrong guy. Any normal woman could have looked at her boyfriend and immediately noticed that the guy had that dead sociopath stabby stare. Normal women would have been scared away by the mere sight of him.

    When low social IQ women disappear from the gene pool, it makes the survivor women look smart in comparison. This is why you should not waste your time lamenting a mudshark woman who is killed by her black boyfriend. She just doesn’t have an ounce of common sense.

    By the way, when a woman dates a violent guy, she often is carrying sociopathic genes herself, and she thinks his nasty antics are fun–at least when not turned against herself–instead of evil because she doesn’t give a damn about right and wrong.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Anon

    Wow, there's a cope post if there ever was one. The perpetually rising rate of single motherhood refutes your hypothesis that women have higher social IQs than men. I have a "dead pan stabby stare" and a lengthy criminal history ane am a real hit with the upper middle class ladies despite being ugly as fuck. Is it possible that it's the ONLY thing women are attracted to?


    Why does this website attract so many cucks with a catastrophically poor ability to describe reality? Is it just pure intentional coping?

  63. @Michelle
    My ex neighbor, who's ex-husband is working at a famous Berkeley restaurant, after she ran off with one of her graduate students, got her degree in New Zealand. She studied Carnivorous Plants.. In New Zealand there are only 2 carnivorous plants.

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @jamie b.

    i love comments like this

  64. @Anon
    Peter Thiel is a pretty smart guy.

    New Zealand citizenship[edit]

    Thiel was a German citizen by birth, and became an American citizen by naturalization.[163] He became a New Zealand citizen in 2011, which became public in 2017.[164] In 2015, he purchased a 193-hectare estate near Wanaka, which fitted the classification of "sensitive land" and required foreign buyers to obtain permission from New Zealand's Overseas Investment Office. Thiel did not require permission as he was a citizen.[165]

    He had received permanent residency in New Zealand in 2007.[166][167] He had visited the country on four occasions prior to his application for citizenship,[168] and had spent 12 days in New Zealand, fewer than the typical residency requirement of 1350 days.[169] When he applied, he stated he had no intention of living in New Zealand, which is a criterion for citizenship.[170] Then-Minister of Internal Affairs Nathan Guy waived those normal requirements, under an "exceptional circumstances" clause of the Citizenships Act.[164][168][170]

    Thiel's application cited his contribution to the economy—he had founded a venture capital fund in Auckland before applying, and invested $7 million in two local companies—as well as a $1 million donation to the 2011 Christchurch earthquake appeal fund.[168] Rod Drury, founder of Xero, also provided a formal reference for Thiel's application.[164] Thiel's case was cited by critics as an example that New Zealand passports can be bought,[168][171] something the New Zealand government denied.[168] At the time that his citizenship was revealed, The New Zealand Herald came out with the report that the New Zealand Defence Force, the Security Intelligence Service and the Government Communications and Security Bureau have long-standing links with Thiel's Palantir.[172]
     

    Replies: @Sick of Orcs, @Triteleia Laxa, @Bill Jones, @Mobi

    Thiel’s application cited his contribution to the economy—he had founded a venture capital fund in Auckland before applying, and invested $7 million in two local companies—as well as a $1 million donation to the 2011 Christchurch earthquake appeal fund.[168] Rod Drury, founder of Xero, also provided a formal reference for Thiel’s application.[164] Thiel’s case was cited by critics as an example that New Zealand passports can be bought,[168][171] something the New Zealand government denied. At the time that his citizenship was revealed, The New Zealand Herald came out with the report that the New Zealand Defence Force, the Security Intelligence Service and the Government Communications and Security Bureau have long-standing links with Thiel’s Palantir

    If only all immigrants paid that price.

  65. @Clyde
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I would like to try mutton. It is not available in the US because it is too gamey for Americans. Keens steak house in NYC famously serves it. Though on the internet some say they simply offer a more aged lamb, not real mutton. Today where are such disputes settled? On you tube of course! I see a few videos I will check out. Real mutton from sheep is eaten around the world, where people are hungry and aren't so fancy. Sounds good with a pint or two of Guinness.

    "Keens Steakhouse is known as the last bastion of the mutton chop, a dish that has fallen entirely out of favor in the rest of the city's chophouses. According to executive chef William Rodgers, who has helmed the kitchen at Keens for the last decade, it continues to be amongst the most popular menu items."

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @stillCARealist, @John Mansfield, @Peter D. Bredon

    “aged lamb”

    Isn’t that the same as a sheep?

    “a pint or two of Guinness”

    You could cook up a dead rat and it would be good after two pints of Guinness. Particularly those British pints that are 22 oz. each.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @stillCARealist


    Particularly those British pints that are 22 oz. each.
     
    "Hence: 1 British pint = 0.96×1.25= 1.2 U. S. pints"
    As far as I can tell a British pint of Guinness has 19 US fluid ounces, which is nice. I should go there for a non-pasteurized Guinness vacation. We only get the pasteurized in the US. Whenever I go to a micro brewery I ask for their darkest beer that is most like Guinness.
  66. @Hypnotoad666
    New Zealand is for rookie apocalypse riders. St. Helena, The Azores, or maybe Pitcarin Island are good choices if you are serious.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @PaceLaw, @Achmed E. Newman, @Desiderius, @Triteleia Laxa, @jamie b.

    They’re too small to retain a complex society. You’ll be crafting your own shoes from straw and trying to learn how to spear fish, while I’ll be going to the theatre after a meal out of roast lamb. More seriously, it’ll be antibiotics for me and back to leeches for you.

    I hope they give sufficient warning for the apocalypse so I can make it to New Zealand. Could a handful of enthusiastic beginners steal a yacht and teach themselves how to sail across the world on the fly? Circumnavigation for dummies?

    • Replies: @Captain Tripps
    @Triteleia Laxa


    Could a handful of enthusiastic beginners steal a yacht and teach themselves how to sail across the world on the fly? Circumnavigation for dummies?
     
    Certainly there are more than enough curious dude and dudette tinkerers ot there in the U.S. and the world in general, that could easily pull that off. Follow on question, when the world is on fire and all these folks are rushing to their doorstep, would the New Zealanders let them in? Or would they make the cold calculation that, with limited supplies and resources, they can't and simply blow them out of the water, with extreme prejudice?
    , @Mobi
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Or a Gulfstream G550, apparently:


    At three recent Silicon Valley dinner parties, guests discussed bugging out to New Zealand if there’s trouble, according to attendees who asked not to be identified because the events were private.

    At one, a prominent venture capitalist was said to have told fellow diners of his escape plans. In the garage of his San Francisco home, he told guests, is a bag of guns hanging from the handlebars of a motorcycle. The bike will allow him to weave through traffic on the way to his private plane, and the guns are for defense against encroaching zombies that may threaten his getaway.

    He intends to fly to a landing strip in Nevada where a jet sits in a hangar, its sole purpose to whisk him and four billionaire co-owners to safety. Their destination: New Zealand
     

    In recent months, two 150-ton survival bunkers journeyed by land and sea from a Texas warehouse to the shores of New Zealand, where they’re buried 11 feet underground.

    Seven Silicon Valley entrepreneurs have purchased bunkers from Rising S Co. and planted them in New Zealand in the past two years
     

    “It’s become one of the places for people in Silicon Valley, mostly because it’s not like Silicon Valley at all,” said Reggie Luedtke, an American biomedical engineer who’s moving to New Zealand in October for the Sir Edmund Hillary Fellowship, a program created to lure tech innovators.

    Luedtke, 37, said people in California have asked him if he’s relocating as part of a doomsday contingency plan, because “that’s what the country is known for.”
     

    Billionaire hedge-fund honcho Julian Robertson owns a lodge overlooking Lake Wakatipu in Queenstown, the South Island’s luxury resort destination. Fidelity National Financial Inc. Chairman Bill Foley has a homestead in the Wairarapa region, north of Wellington, and Titanic director James Cameron bought a mansion nearby at Lake Pounui.

    ...More than 10 Americans from the West Coast have bought multimillion-dollar properties in the Queenstown region in the past two years, said Mark Harris, managing director of the local Sotheby’s real estate office.

    Peter Thiel, the billionaire co-founder of PayPal, ignited an uproar when he was granted citizenship after spending just 12 days in the country, prompting allegations that New Zealand’s passport was for sale. Thiel, 50, owns a $13.8 million home on 477 acres (193 hectares) in the lakeside town of Wanaka, with views of snow-capped mountains, and purchased another property in Queenstown, outfitted with a safe room.

    “If you’re the sort of person that says ‘I’m going to have an alternative plan when Armageddon strikes,’ then you would pick the farthest location and the safest environment — and that equals New Zealand if you Google it,” former Prime Minister John Key said in a phone interview.
     

    In the event of a pandemic, Sam Altman, president of Silicon Valley startup incubator Y Combinator, plans to escape to New Zealand with Thiel, the New Yorker reported in 2016. Now he says he was just joking.
     

    Robert Vicino, founder of the Vivos Project, a builder of massive underground bunkers, said Silicon Valley elites discussed detailed plans to flee to New Zealand last year at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. He said they foresaw “a revolution or a change where society is going to go after the 1 percenters.” In other words, them.
     
    The fact that another 'woke harpy' PM, Helen Clarke, abolished NZ's air defence forces (the country no longer possesses a single jet fighter) greatly improves one's chances by air, I would think.



    https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-rich-new-zealand-doomsday-preppers/

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

  67. @Jonathan Mason
    Although Dickens wrote about families tucking into legs of roast mutton, hardly anybody today knows what mutton tastes like, although I understand it is very good.

    The market for mutton seems to be completely replaced with lamb.

    Doesn't sound like post-apocalyptic New Zealand would be a very good place for vegans.

    Replies: @anon, @Clyde, @Charon, @slumber_j, @Bozo the Clown, @Anon, @Muggles

    Seems to me that post-apocalyptic anything/anywhere would be a terrible situation for vegans.

  68. @Clyde
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I would like to try mutton. It is not available in the US because it is too gamey for Americans. Keens steak house in NYC famously serves it. Though on the internet some say they simply offer a more aged lamb, not real mutton. Today where are such disputes settled? On you tube of course! I see a few videos I will check out. Real mutton from sheep is eaten around the world, where people are hungry and aren't so fancy. Sounds good with a pint or two of Guinness.

    "Keens Steakhouse is known as the last bastion of the mutton chop, a dish that has fallen entirely out of favor in the rest of the city's chophouses. According to executive chef William Rodgers, who has helmed the kitchen at Keens for the last decade, it continues to be amongst the most popular menu items."

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @stillCARealist, @John Mansfield, @Peter D. Bredon

    If you are looking for mutton, try a Navajo restaurant in the Four Corners.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @John Mansfield


    If you are looking for mutton, try a Navajo restaurant in the Four Corners.
     
    They do raise sheep there so this makes sense. What kind of wacko Federal subsidies and payments do they get for this? If I lived within 500 miles I would make an outing of going to Navajo land to see what they can do with mutton.
  69. This has been true for as long as I can remember. NZ was long though to be the safest country in the event of a nuclear war.

  70. It’s almost like it’s isolated from the wider world. (Or, at least the Western World that is plugged into the wider world) Of course, it is not through de jure means but defacto means of distance and expense. I wonder if that would be handy in a global pandemic?

    Steve’s nostalgic affection for renewed supersonic commercial flight might turn out to the final piece of the Western World’s decline into dystopia. Right now though they get obscene amounts of immigration from Indian and China (And the despised Fujanese diasporas in South East Asia) but so far not much of any from Africa. Once it takes 8 hours to get from Lagos to Christchurch though…

  71. Protective sequestration” is the new “gated community”. Global civilization is going to be increasingly punished until it is recognized as a basic human right.

  72. “Riding out the apocalypse in New Zealand sounds pretty good”

    Unlike their Aussie neighbors New Zealanders do not have a Funnel Web Problem. The Kiwis, however, don’t appear to be troubled that their leader is a witch. An actual witch.

  73. @Steve Sailer
    @Clyde

    I had mutton as a child in the 1960s. I didn't like it much.

    Lamb with mint sauce was much better.

    Replies: @Clyde, @Cortes, @Eric F

    Maybe try Nancy Pelosi: mutton dressed as lamb?

  74. @Desiderius
    @Hypnotoad666

    If you're serious you stick with what you know (and more importantly your ancestors knew) and make a go at that instead of trying to re-invent the wheel on the fly. People survived the Bronze Age Collapse in the mountains. Mountains are closer than islands and you're more likely to have relatives there.

    Among the things that have evidently eluded Steve's attention is the fact that NZ is ruled by an insane Wokel and her cabal. Appearing that such awareness is generationally firewalled.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    “evidently eluded Steve’s attention is the fact that NZ is ruled by an insane Wokel and her cabal”

    She’s a witch. An actual witch.

  75. @Pop Warner
    Alex Jones has been saying for years that the elite will flee to New Zealand when things go bad. Is wapo admitting that Jones is right?

    Replies: @Charon, @J.Ross, @Bill, @Muggles

    This is old news. The guy who wrote the Farmlet and Cryptogon blogs did this way before it was cool. He mentions how hard it is to renounce US citizenship, they lose your package multiple times. He was able to have a slightly easier time by marrying a Kiwi and getting along with her family.

  76. New Zealand was supposed to be disarming its citizens, but the efforts fizzled years ago, and I haven’t heard anything about it since (apart from a police communication essentially admitting that they failed). Has the Western world’s experiment in totalitarianism made anyone’s mind up further?

  77. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Hypnotoad666

    Hypno, I had been thinking of Uruguay even before John Derbyshire* started bring it up, but was hesitant to write much in fear of some of you peons following me and my Davos buddies on down there. There's no real estate for sale there anyway. No, I mean NOTHING, not even a place for rent.

    Now, I'm thinking perhaps a real shithole country like Surinam or Burkina Faso**, maybe Madagascar. For one thing, nobody wants to invade. Also, whether it's Global Climate Disruption™, a plandemic, or the expected financial collapse, the place can only get better from it. Buy when there blood stupidity in the streets, they say.

    .


    * I hope you are doing well, Mr. D.

    ** Got no idea exactly where it is, but I can spell it without looking at a map, so there's that ...

    Replies: @Flip, @AndrewR, @J.Ross, @Hypnotoad666

    Burkina Faso is part of that little cluster of small nations in North-West Africa (following the lower and oiter edge of the “brain box,” insofar as Africa looks like a skull, with Somalia as the nose and South Africa as the jaw). The capital is Ouagadogo.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @J.Ross

    That's right, J. Ross. Thanks. Your comment made me remember my joke, something about the Ouagadogoons.

  78. @RichardTaylor
    @Reg Cæsar

    I thought all the palefaces were White Flighting to Minnesota?

    Hey man, whatever happened to Minnesota Nice?

    https://nypost.com/2021/07/29/minnesota-woman-allegedly-beheaded-in-broad-daylight-by-boyfriend/

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Anon, @Fred C Dobbs, @Peter D. Bredon

    B/c it’s no longer 98% white like it was in 1960, silly.

  79. Or, as the paper puts it, which destinations could survive as “nodes of persisting complexity” in the face of a period of rapid, uncontrolled and worldwide “de-complexification.”

    “De-complexification” is the just the type of euphemistic jargon I would expect an autistic academic named Nick King or Aled Jones to come up with to describe what would actually be taking place: lots of death, destruction, misery, and chaos that would make the worst parts of the Second World War look like a random school shooting.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    @Captain Tripps

    The shakeout from nuclear war in Walter M Miller’s “A Canticle For Leibowitz” was termed “the simplification”:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz

    As you suggest, such a process would be unlikely to be pretty.

  80. In “On the Beach” it took 5 months after the nuclear war for the contaminated atmosphere to drift down to Australia. Applying this rule, New Zealand would at least get you an extra 5 months.

    I recommend this movie. If you can endure it. Gregory Peck, Eva Gardner, Anthony Perkins, Fred Astaire. Free, the entire movie, on Google, by Googling “Beach 1959.”

    • Replies: @anon
    @Safenow

    In “On the Beach” it took 5 months after the nuclear war for the contaminated atmosphere to drift down to Australia.

    Nevil Shute was a pretty good engineer who didn't know much at all about nuclear fallout. I read "On the Beach" along with other TEOTWAWKI books and it was the dumbest of the lot.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  81. @Anon
    https://twitter.com/YungSpengler/status/1420571590924845060

    https://twitter.com/YungSpengler/status/1420575651006922755

    Replies: @Charon, @SunBakedSuburb

    “CBS … SWAT”

    The writer’s room for SWAT: FBI script supervisor, black lady commissar, submission to the failing vaccine for admission. Poor slobs. And they had it so good for a while, cranking out lazy scripts for too much money.

  82. @Triteleia Laxa
    @Hypnotoad666

    They're too small to retain a complex society. You'll be crafting your own shoes from straw and trying to learn how to spear fish, while I'll be going to the theatre after a meal out of roast lamb. More seriously, it'll be antibiotics for me and back to leeches for you.

    I hope they give sufficient warning for the apocalypse so I can make it to New Zealand. Could a handful of enthusiastic beginners steal a yacht and teach themselves how to sail across the world on the fly? Circumnavigation for dummies?

    Replies: @Captain Tripps, @Mobi

    Could a handful of enthusiastic beginners steal a yacht and teach themselves how to sail across the world on the fly? Circumnavigation for dummies?

    Certainly there are more than enough curious dude and dudette tinkerers ot there in the U.S. and the world in general, that could easily pull that off. Follow on question, when the world is on fire and all these folks are rushing to their doorstep, would the New Zealanders let them in? Or would they make the cold calculation that, with limited supplies and resources, they can’t and simply blow them out of the water, with extreme prejudice?

  83. @Jonathan Mason
    Although Dickens wrote about families tucking into legs of roast mutton, hardly anybody today knows what mutton tastes like, although I understand it is very good.

    The market for mutton seems to be completely replaced with lamb.

    Doesn't sound like post-apocalyptic New Zealand would be a very good place for vegans.

    Replies: @anon, @Clyde, @Charon, @slumber_j, @Bozo the Clown, @Anon, @Muggles

    Like catfish, mutton has benefited from domestication, which has gotten rid of the gameiness. And it’s nearly impossible to overcook it.

  84. We’ve known for years that Gates, Bezos, and their ultra-exclusive ilk have already purchased ‘bug-out villas’ in NZ, specifically for the purpose of riding out the coming disaster that’s as likely or not to be the result of their own megalomaniacal machinations backfiring horribly.

    Releasing a ‘study’ announcing this to the billions who will never have the means to ride out the Apocalypse in sun-dappled comfort – in the very Shire itself! – feels to me like an act of pre-penance on their parts. “We’re not going to open the door when you begin pounding on it; in fact we’re going to fire on you as soon as you make land on our beaches. But in all farness, it’s only right that you know why we’ve bought New Zealand outright, and why you can’t come in. (thoughtful pause) ….. and isn’t it odd, that when a D-Day finally happens that’s not in the movies, the Nazis would be the ones in the landing crafts!”

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Ragno


    Releasing a ‘study’ announcing this to the billions who will never have the means to ride out the Apocalypse in sun-dappled comfort – in the very Shire itself! – feels to me like an act of pre-penance on their parts.
     
    It's possible.

    Some commentators have pointed out that some of the controllers seem to hold the belief that this method of announcing the evil they plan to implement somehow absolves them of sin.
  85. My father had serious plans for moving the family to NZ back in the late 70’s, precisely because he figured it was the best place to be in case of a nuclear war. But employment is a prerequisite for immigration, and he couldn’t get anyone to hire him. (He even semi-seriously tried to get an NZ post thru Bechtel corp., despite the fact that we aren’t related to those Bechtels.)

  86. @Michelle
    My ex neighbor, who's ex-husband is working at a famous Berkeley restaurant, after she ran off with one of her graduate students, got her degree in New Zealand. She studied Carnivorous Plants.. In New Zealand there are only 2 carnivorous plants.

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @jamie b.

    In college one of my instructors was a herpetologist from New Zealand. NZ is known for the tuatara and… that’s about it, lizard-wise.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @jamie b.


    In college one of my instructors was a herpetologist from New Zealand. NZ is known for the tuatara and… that’s about it, lizard-wise.
     
    What about Jacinda Ardern?
  87. @Hypnotoad666
    New Zealand is for rookie apocalypse riders. St. Helena, The Azores, or maybe Pitcarin Island are good choices if you are serious.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @PaceLaw, @Achmed E. Newman, @Desiderius, @Triteleia Laxa, @jamie b.

    I’ve always had an interest in Kerguelen island.

  88. That doesn’t work : New Zelanders are not a sovereign people nor have the qualities to be one : they are all lower-class refugees from Britain that will always walk by lefty values. As soon as a civilizational collapse occurs rare resources are captured world-wide by the powers that survive that collapse. The chances are the greatest that they happen to be Asian and New Zealand will probably turn into a mere resource and slave colony for what will remain of the Chinese empire : the worst place to be located at is where rare ressources are coveted by rich armed groups world-wide. China’s or any other Pacific-based empire’s policy in New Zealand will be to subject it to a Khmer Rouge like regime : kill all the locals that have known a too comfortable life to replace them by imported mindless serfs. Your chances of survival are far better among the Taliban : these groups will be respected by the surviving powers. If China doesn’t take up New Zealand it will remain part of the Jewish-led (or Muslim-led, depending on if the Jews have overplayed their hand or not) Anglosphere and their policy will be to make the former Anglo-Saxons pay very dearly for having one day invented democratic civilization and generalized the benefits of science to way too many people.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Francis Miville

    That's an interesting point, Mr. Miville. I am not totally enamored with them, but the Taliban are a lot cooler regarding guns too.

  89. Unfortunately, New Zealand imports about $30 million (USD) of nitrogen fertilizers a month for growing food. Without added fertilizer. agricultural productivity nose-dives. Rotating legumes and clover helps but I think the guano supplies were mined out in the 19th century although bird droppings are a renewable resource.

    And that doesn’t consider the loss of imported petroleum fuels to run the tractors, combines, and trucks necessary for intensive agribusiness. Of course, sheep can walk to slaughter.

    https://oec.world/en/profile/country/nzl/

    Maybe they can balance the loss of productivity stimulants with a decline in food exports.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Somsel

    Who are they going to export food to?
    The 6 billion dead won't eat.

  90. @Ragno
    We've known for years that Gates, Bezos, and their ultra-exclusive ilk have already purchased 'bug-out villas' in NZ, specifically for the purpose of riding out the coming disaster that's as likely or not to be the result of their own megalomaniacal machinations backfiring horribly.

    Releasing a 'study' announcing this to the billions who will never have the means to ride out the Apocalypse in sun-dappled comfort - in the very Shire itself! - feels to me like an act of pre-penance on their parts. "We're not going to open the door when you begin pounding on it; in fact we're going to fire on you as soon as you make land on our beaches. But in all farness, it's only right that you know why we've bought New Zealand outright, and why you can't come in. (thoughtful pause) ..... and isn't it odd, that when a D-Day finally happens that's not in the movies, the Nazis would be the ones in the landing crafts!"

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    Releasing a ‘study’ announcing this to the billions who will never have the means to ride out the Apocalypse in sun-dappled comfort – in the very Shire itself! – feels to me like an act of pre-penance on their parts.

    It’s possible.

    Some commentators have pointed out that some of the controllers seem to hold the belief that this method of announcing the evil they plan to implement somehow absolves them of sin.

  91. @rooshavesmallheads
    @22pp22

    You people sure like moving don't cha, stay on your own island man.Don't pollute Aasia with your dirty culture and prescence that dirty culture and genes the black americans have.

    Replies: @22pp22, @22pp22

    I have zero desire to go back to Asia. Also, would the Asians kindly stay in Asia. They seem to have an irrepressible desire to move to Western countries.

  92. @rooshavesmallheads
    @22pp22

    You people sure like moving don't cha, stay on your own island man.Don't pollute Aasia with your dirty culture and prescence that dirty culture and genes the black americans have.

    Replies: @22pp22, @22pp22

    I have zero desire to go back to Asia or to interact with Asian people. I forewent the opportunity to live there permanently. Also, would the Asians kindly stay in Asia. They seem to have an irrepressible desire to move to Western countries.

  93. Ocean front property in Antarctica is the way to go. They keep promising global warming so any day now they’ll all be down there.

  94. @J.Ross
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Burkina Faso is part of that little cluster of small nations in North-West Africa (following the lower and oiter edge of the "brain box," insofar as Africa looks like a skull, with Somalia as the nose and South Africa as the jaw). The capital is Ouagadogo.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    That’s right, J. Ross. Thanks. Your comment made me remember my joke, something about the Ouagadogoons.

  95. @Pop Warner
    Alex Jones has been saying for years that the elite will flee to New Zealand when things go bad. Is wapo admitting that Jones is right?

    Replies: @Charon, @J.Ross, @Bill, @Muggles

    Relevant: Gulfstream G700 makes it from San Jose, CA to Auckland w/o refueling.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Bill

    After about 15 minutes, their security guards will shoot them and take their women. Or maybe their women will shoot them and take their security guards.

    Replies: @Bill

  96. @Torn and Frayed
    New Zealand is now within the Chinese sphere of influence so it would be quickly captured if there were a global social collapse. Besides in the runup to the Chinese invasion, billionaires colonising NZ means it would be internally and eternally pozzed. The rich would buy up all the land a monopolise it. Then they would import cheap and culturally dangerous labour to work their land since they would never stoop to pay the deplorable locals fair wages.

    One place I think is super resilient is eastern Tennessee and the general area around it. The one factor that is worrying is Blackrock buying up property around there. The good people of Tennessee would need to liberate any Blackrock holdings and then purge themselves of any cuck GOP remnants. After that they would be good to go.

    Hungary seems like a reasonable bet in Europe. They are woke to both the JQ and the IQ (having been partially colonised by the Ottomans).

    With the vax narrative in literal freefall, there is very likely to soon be serious strife in the US; The cognitive elite have gone all in on the vax. They may soon themselves lifelong jab-junkies, desperately jonesing for that next booster to ward off stalking ADE. Israel is facing a potential Shoah, they are even vaxxing children. The narcissism of the cognitive elite may not accept being outsmarted by midwit anti-vaxxers. They may attempt to mandate the vax with an implied threat of violence. When the spectre of unvaxxed young adults being rounded up and jabbed with the ADE juice enters the popular mind, there could be serious strife and resistance. I hope cooler minds prevail and the vaxxed accept their coming L with magnanimity.

    Replies: @Rob

    Y’all who talk about antibody-dependent enhancement. You are aware that ADE is fantastically rare, right? You are also aware that if a vaccine causes ADE, the immune reaction to the disease almost certainly causes ADE as well. You guys do know this, right?

    • Replies: @Torn and Frayed
    @Rob

    Great. It sounds like you agree that if it all goes south on the vaxxed and the not at all rare event of ADE occurring in a cornoavirus vaccine actually does take place, then you will resist any calls for punitive mass vaccinations of the remaining unvaxxed.

  97. @dearieme
    the researchers said they were surprised by a relatively strong showing from Britain

    Does that mean they were a bunch of lefties happy to do their own country down, but retaining just enough integrity to admit to the result?

    Anyway, how about Uruguay? No earthquakes there, as far as I know.

    Replies: @anon

    Anyway, how about Uruguay?

    Shares a land border with Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @anon

    Nope. I would have guessed that too at first, but Uruguay doesn't border Paraguay, only the other 2 countries.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @anon

  98. anon[393] • Disclaimer says:
    @James Speaks
    Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over, California ain't too shabby.


    *Roughly 3-4 months in winter, about a week during a summer heat wave.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @anon

    Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over,

    The Larry Niven and the late Jerry Pournelle explored a bit of that back in the 1970’s. That phase could be rather problematic.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/218467.Lucifer_s_Hammer

    For example, most of SoCal is habitable only with a goodish supply of industrial technology, and the technologists to keep it working.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @anon


    Larry Niven and the late Jerry Pournelle
     
    The asteroid that the title refers to lands in the Pacific; the tidal wave floods the San Joaquin Valley. The scientist saved many of his precious books from looters by putting them in zip lock bags and stowing them in the septic tank. IIRC, the cannibal tribe eats him.

    Zombie Apocalypsios are a recurring theme in doom literature, much like what happens when you try to run the Ocoee backwards in a 15'9 Blue Hole OCA. (It was not on purpose, I swear). Apocalypsios are great fiction but we are experiencing something a little different, namely microcatastrophe followed by relative calm followed by microcatastrophe. 2008 was the first and COVID-19 is the second. It's like running the Chattooga Sections III and IV with a guide. Drop, pool and rest, then another drop. Imminently more survivable unless your name happens to be Drew.

    Replies: @anon

  99. @rebel yell
    People who live in isolation from the world stagnate, and this would be the case in New Zealand after global collapse.
    People who live at the crossroads of civilizations suffer war and tyranny, but the winners prosper and advance civilization.
    If Rome falls you want to be in France, even though that is where the wars are happening, not Britain, a backwater. You just need to win the wars.
    If there were global collapse the United States of America would be the best place on earth to be. The wars to reclaim the country would be glorious.

    Replies: @jamie b.

    Could you give examples of what do you mean by ‘stagnate’? 5 million people live in NZ. That’s surely far more than enough to avoid memetic ‘allele fixation.’

    • Replies: @rebel yell
    @jamie b.

    True, 5 million people in NZ is enough to sustain their civilization. But if they are cut off from interaction with the rest of the world will they continue to develop? The need for new weapons is a driver of technological progress. Trade with others drives productivity and cultural progress. Conflict and competition drive progress. I was thinking of some South Pacific tribes that regressed culturally and lost the ability to make fire, which they had when they first arrived in their new, isolated, home.

    Replies: @jamie b., @Joe Stalin

  100. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Hypnotoad666

    Hypno, I had been thinking of Uruguay even before John Derbyshire* started bring it up, but was hesitant to write much in fear of some of you peons following me and my Davos buddies on down there. There's no real estate for sale there anyway. No, I mean NOTHING, not even a place for rent.

    Now, I'm thinking perhaps a real shithole country like Surinam or Burkina Faso**, maybe Madagascar. For one thing, nobody wants to invade. Also, whether it's Global Climate Disruption™, a plandemic, or the expected financial collapse, the place can only get better from it. Buy when there blood stupidity in the streets, they say.

    .


    * I hope you are doing well, Mr. D.

    ** Got no idea exactly where it is, but I can spell it without looking at a map, so there's that ...

    Replies: @Flip, @AndrewR, @J.Ross, @Hypnotoad666

    If you are already looking in the neighborhood, you may want to consider Paraguay. It worked for Dr. Mengele. http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2098534,00.html

  101. anon[740] • Disclaimer says:
    @Safenow
    In “On the Beach” it took 5 months after the nuclear war for the contaminated atmosphere to drift down to Australia. Applying this rule, New Zealand would at least get you an extra 5 months.

    I recommend this movie. If you can endure it. Gregory Peck, Eva Gardner, Anthony Perkins, Fred Astaire. Free, the entire movie, on Google, by Googling “Beach 1959.”

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HusewgIe_1k

    Replies: @anon

    In “On the Beach” it took 5 months after the nuclear war for the contaminated atmosphere to drift down to Australia.

    Nevil Shute was a pretty good engineer who didn’t know much at all about nuclear fallout. I read “On the Beach” along with other TEOTWAWKI books and it was the dumbest of the lot.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @anon

    A lot of midcentury anti-nuke lit is hysterical nonsense because its goal was hysteria. Fail-Safe for example depends upon launching taking long enough for a nice phone chat and the Soviet Union valuing human life, let alone the lives of its mortal enemies. IHNMAIMS and ABAHD tells us a lot less about computers or nukes and more about Harlan Ellison's deep and sincere hatred for humanity (with the "real bad guys" being in ABAHD white suburban families). Like The Morning After or its metric equivalent Threads, the idea was to simply terrify people, and if, by some wierd Rube Goldberg coincidence, Soviet terrorism ended up getting a pass, well, hey, we couldn't have foreseen that, and anyhow it's better than fantasy outcomes set up to be as nightmarish as expressible if not possible.

  102. @Steve Sailer
    @Clyde

    I had mutton as a child in the 1960s. I didn't like it much.

    Lamb with mint sauce was much better.

    Replies: @Clyde, @Cortes, @Eric F

    Owensboro Kentucky has a BBQ mutton joint that’ll knock your socks off. Highly recommended. Old Hickory Bar-B-Que. I think that entire area of western Kentucky is mutton central though.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Eric F


    Owensboro Kentucky has a BBQ mutton joint that’ll knock your socks off. Highly recommended. Old Hickory Bar-B-Que. I think that entire area of western Kentucky is mutton central though.
     
    I'm fasting today and you had to say "Bar-B-Que" ... damn!

    But thanks. Not impossible Owensboro could be near my route on a future ramble.
  103. @Jonathan Mason
    Although Dickens wrote about families tucking into legs of roast mutton, hardly anybody today knows what mutton tastes like, although I understand it is very good.

    The market for mutton seems to be completely replaced with lamb.

    Doesn't sound like post-apocalyptic New Zealand would be a very good place for vegans.

    Replies: @anon, @Clyde, @Charon, @slumber_j, @Bozo the Clown, @Anon, @Muggles

    Contrary to at least one commentator on this thread, lamb isn’t mutton.

    As others correctly note, mutton is old/older sheep. Thus the fat is very strong tasting (not good) and meat is gamy and tough.

    In medieval times (and certain places probably now) when sheep got too old or lame for sheering you had mutton for dinner.

    Lamb was a delicacy as it is much milder and more tender.

    If they were “the same” as Mr. Anon claims, no one would eat lamb since larger sheep obviously have far more meat on them.

    Of course taste is subjective. But how many regular American markets even carry mutton?

  104. @Captain Tripps

    Or, as the paper puts it, which destinations could survive as “nodes of persisting complexity” in the face of a period of rapid, uncontrolled and worldwide “de-complexification.”
     
    "De-complexification" is the just the type of euphemistic jargon I would expect an autistic academic named Nick King or Aled Jones to come up with to describe what would actually be taking place: lots of death, destruction, misery, and chaos that would make the worst parts of the Second World War look like a random school shooting.

    Replies: @Cortes

    The shakeout from nuclear war in Walter M Miller’s “A Canticle For Leibowitz” was termed “the simplification”:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz

    As you suggest, such a process would be unlikely to be pretty.

  105. @Pop Warner
    Alex Jones has been saying for years that the elite will flee to New Zealand when things go bad. Is wapo admitting that Jones is right?

    Replies: @Charon, @J.Ross, @Bill, @Muggles

    In the old USSR days the Politburo used to joke (so it was said) that after the Communists took over everyplace else they would leave New Zealand alone. So that they would have a valid reference point for actual market prices.

    It’s a very old joke.

    New Zealand seems very nice from afar, but I suspect living there gets very boring. Like any small town after a while you’ve eaten at all the restaurants, been at the bars, and seen most of the people worth seeing.

    The only Kiwi native I ever met (40 years ago) was a very bright guy. I asked him why he had left such a nice place. He said business wise it was “dead” and there was nothing going on there. Like you might hear from someone from a small/mid sized town.

    You can’t eat the scenery. Also, lots of earthquakes. Still, someday I want to visit there.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Muggles

    >bars
    >restaurants
    >you can't eat the scenery (true in the case of infamously tough and expansive Kikuyu grass)
    I'm guessing you don't know what are the wooden triangles on the goats. I have bad news about you and the world's end.

    , @SaneClownPosse
    @Muggles

    "Also, lots of earthquakes."

    First thing I checked when ZH-tards were going on about surviving in New Zealand, was the fault lines that lie along side and cross through the tip of the south island.

    Second thing was their restrictive immigration policy.

    Don't forget the New Zealand version of Sandy Hook, et al., that happened in Christchurch.

    No one can escape the Borg collective.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  106. @AndrewR
    @RichardTaylor

    It's not Mogadishu Mean

    Replies: @Muggles

    It’s not Mogadishu Mean

    That reminds me, I just saw a news blurb about a headless woman’s body found on some Minnesota sidewalk.

    Those crazy Somalis!

  107. News You Can Use from the Washington Post: the Best Place to Ride Out a Global Societal Collapse Is New Zealand, Study Finds

    Actually, North Dakota’s probably much better, but the scenery in NZ is prettier and it doesn’t have fly-over Trump voters.

  108. @kaganovitch
    @James Speaks

    Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over, California ain’t too shabby.

    Water is going to be an issue, though.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    Reduced rainfall yields reduced surface water. I’ll grant you that. But triply reduced population yields more water per capita. Zombie apocalypses aren’t know for being times of population growth, unless you mean the growths on the side of the head of some zombie.

    • Replies: @SaneClownPosse
    @James Speaks

    There is possibility that the watersheds, that LA has been consuming located in the rest of California, may be denied to SoCal when the USA collapses.

    It is strange to see signs on land straddling US-395 over 200 miles north of LA, that announce that an area is property of City of Los Angeles. Always on land along rivers, to which LA owns the water rights.

    LA could become a terrestrial Dune world. Here's a tip for LA, just one word, desalinization.

  109. @Rob
    @Torn and Frayed

    Y’all who talk about antibody-dependent enhancement. You are aware that ADE is fantastically rare, right? You are also aware that if a vaccine causes ADE, the immune reaction to the disease almost certainly causes ADE as well. You guys do know this, right?

    Replies: @Torn and Frayed

    Great. It sounds like you agree that if it all goes south on the vaxxed and the not at all rare event of ADE occurring in a cornoavirus vaccine actually does take place, then you will resist any calls for punitive mass vaccinations of the remaining unvaxxed.

  110. Sounds like all those “Best Places to Live” magazine pieces that are really “Whitest Places to Live”

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Known Fact

    [picture of Raj Chetty doing a wheelie in a bulldozer with a back shovel]

  111. Anon[135] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    @RichardTaylor

    Women tend to have better social IQs than men because there is a Darwinian penalty for women who hook up with the wrong guy. Any normal woman could have looked at her boyfriend and immediately noticed that the guy had that dead sociopath stabby stare. Normal women would have been scared away by the mere sight of him.

    When low social IQ women disappear from the gene pool, it makes the survivor women look smart in comparison. This is why you should not waste your time lamenting a mudshark woman who is killed by her black boyfriend. She just doesn't have an ounce of common sense.

    By the way, when a woman dates a violent guy, she often is carrying sociopathic genes herself, and she thinks his nasty antics are fun--at least when not turned against herself--instead of evil because she doesn't give a damn about right and wrong.

    Replies: @Anon

    Wow, there’s a cope post if there ever was one. The perpetually rising rate of single motherhood refutes your hypothesis that women have higher social IQs than men. I have a “dead pan stabby stare” and a lengthy criminal history ane am a real hit with the upper middle class ladies despite being ugly as fuck. Is it possible that it’s the ONLY thing women are attracted to?

    Why does this website attract so many cucks with a catastrophically poor ability to describe reality? Is it just pure intentional coping?

  112. Tucker Carlson acknowledges that many of the people crossing the southern border are refugees from a warzone.

  113. ‘Riding out the apocalypse in New Zealand sounds pretty good, so long as you like mutton.’

    They also have good white wine, and great trout fishing.

    Not many blacks, though. You’d have to content yourself with Maoris. Perhaps mildly annoying, but it just wouldn’t be the same…

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @Colin Wright


    They also have good white wine, and great trout fishing.

    Not many blacks, though. You’d have to content yourself with Maoris. Perhaps mildly annoying, but it just wouldn’t be the same…
     

    Don't overlook this one:

    https://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/2018+Logie+Awards+Arrivals+R6OuEnjJW75x.jpg

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  114. @anon
    @Safenow

    In “On the Beach” it took 5 months after the nuclear war for the contaminated atmosphere to drift down to Australia.

    Nevil Shute was a pretty good engineer who didn't know much at all about nuclear fallout. I read "On the Beach" along with other TEOTWAWKI books and it was the dumbest of the lot.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    A lot of midcentury anti-nuke lit is hysterical nonsense because its goal was hysteria. Fail-Safe for example depends upon launching taking long enough for a nice phone chat and the Soviet Union valuing human life, let alone the lives of its mortal enemies. IHNMAIMS and ABAHD tells us a lot less about computers or nukes and more about Harlan Ellison’s deep and sincere hatred for humanity (with the “real bad guys” being in ABAHD white suburban families). Like The Morning After or its metric equivalent Threads, the idea was to simply terrify people, and if, by some wierd Rube Goldberg coincidence, Soviet terrorism ended up getting a pass, well, hey, we couldn’t have foreseen that, and anyhow it’s better than fantasy outcomes set up to be as nightmarish as expressible if not possible.

  115. @Known Fact
    Sounds like all those "Best Places to Live" magazine pieces that are really "Whitest Places to Live"

    Replies: @J.Ross

    [picture of Raj Chetty doing a wheelie in a bulldozer with a back shovel]

  116. @Muggles
    @Pop Warner

    In the old USSR days the Politburo used to joke (so it was said) that after the Communists took over everyplace else they would leave New Zealand alone. So that they would have a valid reference point for actual market prices.

    It's a very old joke.

    New Zealand seems very nice from afar, but I suspect living there gets very boring. Like any small town after a while you've eaten at all the restaurants, been at the bars, and seen most of the people worth seeing.

    The only Kiwi native I ever met (40 years ago) was a very bright guy. I asked him why he had left such a nice place. He said business wise it was "dead" and there was nothing going on there. Like you might hear from someone from a small/mid sized town.

    You can't eat the scenery. Also, lots of earthquakes. Still, someday I want to visit there.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @SaneClownPosse

    >bars
    >restaurants
    >you can’t eat the scenery (true in the case of infamously tough and expansive Kikuyu grass)
    I’m guessing you don’t know what are the wooden triangles on the goats. I have bad news about you and the world’s end.

  117. NZ is strict on who they let in. You need to have a occupation specialty that is in demand. Being white isn’t good enough on its own. Bringing lots of cash to start a business, that wouldn’t be direct competition to an existing business, might work.

    I had an uncle who immigrated to NZ, from Minnesota, to be a sheep farmer, maybe right after WW2. Don’t know if he had served in the Pacific and had made the connection to NZ then. I never met them, my mother received letters from them from time to time.

    I missed out on being eligible for Swiss citizenship by one generation. Great grandfather is one step too far back.

  118. @anon
    @James Speaks

    Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over,

    The Larry Niven and the late Jerry Pournelle explored a bit of that back in the 1970's. That phase could be rather problematic.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/218467.Lucifer_s_Hammer

    For example, most of SoCal is habitable only with a goodish supply of industrial technology, and the technologists to keep it working.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    Larry Niven and the late Jerry Pournelle

    The asteroid that the title refers to lands in the Pacific; the tidal wave floods the San Joaquin Valley. The scientist saved many of his precious books from looters by putting them in zip lock bags and stowing them in the septic tank. IIRC, the cannibal tribe eats him.

    Zombie Apocalypsios are a recurring theme in doom literature, much like what happens when you try to run the Ocoee backwards in a 15’9 Blue Hole OCA. (It was not on purpose, I swear). Apocalypsios are great fiction but we are experiencing something a little different, namely microcatastrophe followed by relative calm followed by microcatastrophe. 2008 was the first and COVID-19 is the second. It’s like running the Chattooga Sections III and IV with a guide. Drop, pool and rest, then another drop. Imminently more survivable unless your name happens to be Drew.

    • Replies: @anon
    @James Speaks

    The asteroid that the title refers to lands in the Pacific;

    Er, no. Fragments of comet land in various places in that novel, including the Gulf of Mexico. Pournelle was asked in an interview about an comparable mass astroid impact, and his reply was it would be a very short novel; "Pasteurized planet".

    Apocalypsios are great fiction but we are experiencing something a little different, namely microcatastrophe followed by relative calm followed by microcatastrophe. 2008 was the first and COVID-19 is the second.

    Whatever. Dude, importing water over the mountains to L.A. involves certain levels of technos and a cohort of people who know what they are doing. Industrial levels of electricity, for example, are assumed. It is not the same thing as running water downhill to NYC.

    "Two years before the mast" describes the LA basin pre 20th century. It was sparsely populated for a reason. That's the normal, natural condition of the area.

    Replies: @James Speaks

  119. @James Speaks
    @kaganovitch

    Reduced rainfall yields reduced surface water. I'll grant you that. But triply reduced population yields more water per capita. Zombie apocalypses aren't know for being times of population growth, unless you mean the growths on the side of the head of some zombie.

    Replies: @SaneClownPosse

    There is possibility that the watersheds, that LA has been consuming located in the rest of California, may be denied to SoCal when the USA collapses.

    It is strange to see signs on land straddling US-395 over 200 miles north of LA, that announce that an area is property of City of Los Angeles. Always on land along rivers, to which LA owns the water rights.

    LA could become a terrestrial Dune world. Here’s a tip for LA, just one word, desalinization.

  120. @Colin Wright
    'Riding out the apocalypse in New Zealand sounds pretty good, so long as you like mutton.'

    They also have good white wine, and great trout fishing.

    Not many blacks, though. You'd have to content yourself with Maoris. Perhaps mildly annoying, but it just wouldn't be the same...

    Replies: @James Speaks

    They also have good white wine, and great trout fishing.

    Not many blacks, though. You’d have to content yourself with Maoris. Perhaps mildly annoying, but it just wouldn’t be the same…

    Don’t overlook this one:

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @James Speaks

    There you go. They look positively human.

  121. @Muggles
    @Pop Warner

    In the old USSR days the Politburo used to joke (so it was said) that after the Communists took over everyplace else they would leave New Zealand alone. So that they would have a valid reference point for actual market prices.

    It's a very old joke.

    New Zealand seems very nice from afar, but I suspect living there gets very boring. Like any small town after a while you've eaten at all the restaurants, been at the bars, and seen most of the people worth seeing.

    The only Kiwi native I ever met (40 years ago) was a very bright guy. I asked him why he had left such a nice place. He said business wise it was "dead" and there was nothing going on there. Like you might hear from someone from a small/mid sized town.

    You can't eat the scenery. Also, lots of earthquakes. Still, someday I want to visit there.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @SaneClownPosse

    “Also, lots of earthquakes.”

    First thing I checked when ZH-tards were going on about surviving in New Zealand, was the fault lines that lie along side and cross through the tip of the south island.

    Second thing was their restrictive immigration policy.

    Don’t forget the New Zealand version of Sandy Hook, et al., that happened in Christchurch.

    No one can escape the Borg collective.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @SaneClownPosse

    'Second thing was their restrictive immigration policy.'

    It's not that restrictive.

    I looked a few years ago. As is, my wife and I fell into the 'we'll think about it' category.

    If we fell off a couple of logs, we'd have been in for sure.

  122. Whose “gunboats” will protect New Zealand?

  123. @Bill
    @Pop Warner

    Relevant: Gulfstream G700 makes it from San Jose, CA to Auckland w/o refueling.

    Replies: @JMcG

    After about 15 minutes, their security guards will shoot them and take their women. Or maybe their women will shoot them and take their security guards.

    • Agree: Cortes
    • Replies: @Bill
    @JMcG

    You know that. I know that. They either don't know it or view it as a technical problem to be solved once they get around to it.

  124. I for one, fully concur with this article’s and its commentors’ exclusive focus on New Zealand.
    New Zealand is a beautiful land of opportunity, and should be the primary prospect of you all when considering where to flee in the event of civilisational collapse.
    You should probably just ignore all the also-rans they happened to just mention in passing, considering power-laws and network effects and all that, and in fact just go to New Zealand right now.
    Remember folks, when you need the best, forget the rest. New Zealand should be everyone’s last-stand.
    New Zealand.

    Good luck, God Bless, agus go n’eirigh an bóthar libh.

    • LOL: Cortes
    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Pseud O'Nym

    Go raibh míle maith agáit. Chiffidh mé tú níos déanaí.

  125. @Anon
    Peter Thiel is a pretty smart guy.

    New Zealand citizenship[edit]

    Thiel was a German citizen by birth, and became an American citizen by naturalization.[163] He became a New Zealand citizen in 2011, which became public in 2017.[164] In 2015, he purchased a 193-hectare estate near Wanaka, which fitted the classification of "sensitive land" and required foreign buyers to obtain permission from New Zealand's Overseas Investment Office. Thiel did not require permission as he was a citizen.[165]

    He had received permanent residency in New Zealand in 2007.[166][167] He had visited the country on four occasions prior to his application for citizenship,[168] and had spent 12 days in New Zealand, fewer than the typical residency requirement of 1350 days.[169] When he applied, he stated he had no intention of living in New Zealand, which is a criterion for citizenship.[170] Then-Minister of Internal Affairs Nathan Guy waived those normal requirements, under an "exceptional circumstances" clause of the Citizenships Act.[164][168][170]

    Thiel's application cited his contribution to the economy—he had founded a venture capital fund in Auckland before applying, and invested $7 million in two local companies—as well as a $1 million donation to the 2011 Christchurch earthquake appeal fund.[168] Rod Drury, founder of Xero, also provided a formal reference for Thiel's application.[164] Thiel's case was cited by critics as an example that New Zealand passports can be bought,[168][171] something the New Zealand government denied.[168] At the time that his citizenship was revealed, The New Zealand Herald came out with the report that the New Zealand Defence Force, the Security Intelligence Service and the Government Communications and Security Bureau have long-standing links with Thiel's Palantir.[172]
     

    Replies: @Sick of Orcs, @Triteleia Laxa, @Bill Jones, @Mobi

    Palantir’s vacuuming up all the dirty secrets of New Zealand’s Great and the Good made certain that his Citizenship was a shoo-in.

    What are you going to say to the guy who has the records of every sheep you’ve ever fucked?

  126. @Somsel
    Unfortunately, New Zealand imports about $30 million (USD) of nitrogen fertilizers a month for growing food. Without added fertilizer. agricultural productivity nose-dives. Rotating legumes and clover helps but I think the guano supplies were mined out in the 19th century although bird droppings are a renewable resource.

    And that doesn't consider the loss of imported petroleum fuels to run the tractors, combines, and trucks necessary for intensive agribusiness. Of course, sheep can walk to slaughter.

    https://oec.world/en/profile/country/nzl/

    Maybe they can balance the loss of productivity stimulants with a decline in food exports.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    Who are they going to export food to?
    The 6 billion dead won’t eat.

  127. @22pp22
    @Tusk

    Actually, smalltown New Zealanders can be amazingly self-sufficient. The country has its faults - plenty of them - but within a few years it would be producing its own aircraft and pharmaceuticals.

    I was born in Britain, but I am a Kiwi citizen who now lives near Brisbane. I have lived in Japan, Korea, Cyprus, Germany and Costa Rica and I would give Kiwis are better chance of maintaining civilization than anyone else.

    In fact, removing easy access to narcotics would improve the country out of all recognition. Covid 19 has put a temporary stop to immigration. It has had a wonderful effect on wages and attitudes.

    Replies: @rooshavesmallheads, @Mike1

    It must have been a while since you lived there. The #8 wire mentality is dead and buried. Current NZers are staggeringly incompetent. They have all lived off their home equity for decades now.

    The country is currently aggressively getting rid of their last echos of manufacturing. The idea they could build anything beyond a horse shoe if things got weird is absurd. If you’ve lived there you would also know they have driven out any bright person that accidentally gets born there.

    Have you been there since covid? It is still a fully immigrant staffed country and the attitudes haven’t changed.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Mike1

    Would New Zealand have a steel mill or a chip fab plant if it got cut off?

    I imagine it has the human capital to build ones but that could take years.

    Replies: @Mike1

    , @22pp22
    @Mike1

    In reply to Mike1

    I left Central Otago four weeks ago. I now live in Queensland. My wife’s family are rural Southlanders who own and run their own farms. They are tough as nails and super competent at all things practical. What you say is totally true of JAFAs. Our builder is 80 and can still carry a heavy steel bath unaided. He is also a complete eccentric who includes a poem with every bill he sends us and gave us a guided tour of his coffin which sits in his living room.

    Replies: @Mike1

  128. @jamie b.
    @rebel yell

    Could you give examples of what do you mean by 'stagnate'? 5 million people live in NZ. That's surely far more than enough to avoid memetic 'allele fixation.'

    Replies: @rebel yell

    True, 5 million people in NZ is enough to sustain their civilization. But if they are cut off from interaction with the rest of the world will they continue to develop? The need for new weapons is a driver of technological progress. Trade with others drives productivity and cultural progress. Conflict and competition drive progress. I was thinking of some South Pacific tribes that regressed culturally and lost the ability to make fire, which they had when they first arrived in their new, isolated, home.

    • Replies: @jamie b.
    @rebel yell


    I was thinking of some South Pacific tribes that regressed culturally and lost the ability to make fire, which they had when they first arrived in their new, isolated, home.
     
    Yeah, that's kinda what I thought you were thinking of: Something like how the Tasmanians lost all knowledge of eg. how to fish. But you seem to concede that that only happens with very small, isolated populations. (It should also be noted that having a written language also helps preserve knowledge.)

    But if instead of regression 'stagnation' simply means slow progress, then I don't see what the problem is. NZ would still (supposedly) be preserving civilization, which was the point.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Joe Stalin
    @rebel yell


    The need for new weapons is a driver of technological progress.
     
    Now that they have confiscated all semi-auto rifles, the Kiwis will be busy converting all their Enfields to automatic to deal with future invaders.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glcuSPMAAHs
  129. @Mike1
    @22pp22

    It must have been a while since you lived there. The #8 wire mentality is dead and buried. Current NZers are staggeringly incompetent. They have all lived off their home equity for decades now.

    The country is currently aggressively getting rid of their last echos of manufacturing. The idea they could build anything beyond a horse shoe if things got weird is absurd. If you've lived there you would also know they have driven out any bright person that accidentally gets born there.

    Have you been there since covid? It is still a fully immigrant staffed country and the attitudes haven't changed.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @22pp22

    Would New Zealand have a steel mill or a chip fab plant if it got cut off?

    I imagine it has the human capital to build ones but that could take years.

    • Replies: @Mike1
    @Steve Sailer

    NZ is currently shutting:

    - NZ Steel (their only steel mill)
    - Tiwai Point (their only aluminium smelter)
    - Marsden Point Oil Refinery (their only oil refinery)

    They have already shut their oil and gas industry and banned any future exploration.

    Coming soon:

    - Tourism. Wealthy visitors only. This is already in place at the top end. You can currently visit NZ if you are very wealthy through things like $50k two week quarantines or spending $50k on your yacht. These programs are hidden from public view.
    - Farming. Forced reduction of stock capacity administered through the NZ IRS (IRD). Forced reduction of fertilizer use. Government inspectors will be given rights to roam private farms to count stock numbers.

    They have the intellectual capacity for a steel mill but not a chip fab plant. I have relatives that run divisions in the chip industry and the mental and social skills to do that do not exist in NZ. It is essentially a white China: plenty of people that can run a pre-built process but almost no above average people. It differs from China in that it has close to a negative work ethic.

    They are functionally a Chinese satellite despite their five eyes membership. A lot of citizens think this is dangerous but the business elite and the political class is fully in the China camp. Chinese spies and influence operations have unfettered access.

  130. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO, and NO.

    Time for a full disclosure/confession…

    New Zealand doesn’t exist. It’s a fictional country – a myth made up by the French to attempt to stop Yanks from coming and ruining France.

    The myth’s objective is to mak Yanks think there is a sort of small-economy Wakanda in the South Pacific… in order to send the Yank locusts on a snipe hunt halfway across the globe. They wind up in Australia and are reasonably happy with what they find, and are none the wiser.

    Kiwis are an entirely fictional people (both Māori and pakeha); those who write narratives concerning or referring to NZ (like me) are paid to do so by French cultural authorities.

    Vive la France!

    Oh, and don’t come looking in the South Pacific for somewhere to fuck up once you’re finished ruining Euromutt-land.

    Seriously… complete waste of time. Nothing to see. Basically just open ocean. I could say ‘just look at a satellite image’ but honestly just take my word for it … save the time for more huffing down obesogenic industrial slob-fatteners.

  131. @Pseud O'Nym
    I for one, fully concur with this article's and its commentors' exclusive focus on New Zealand.
    New Zealand is a beautiful land of opportunity, and should be the primary prospect of you all when considering where to flee in the event of civilisational collapse.
    You should probably just ignore all the also-rans they happened to just mention in passing, considering power-laws and network effects and all that, and in fact just go to New Zealand right now.
    Remember folks, when you need the best, forget the rest. New Zealand should be everyone's last-stand.
    New Zealand.

    Good luck, God Bless, agus go n'eirigh an bóthar libh.

    Replies: @JMcG

    Go raibh míle maith agáit. Chiffidh mé tú níos déanaí.

  132. @James Speaks
    @Colin Wright


    They also have good white wine, and great trout fishing.

    Not many blacks, though. You’d have to content yourself with Maoris. Perhaps mildly annoying, but it just wouldn’t be the same…
     

    Don't overlook this one:

    https://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/2018+Logie+Awards+Arrivals+R6OuEnjJW75x.jpg

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    There you go. They look positively human.

  133. @SaneClownPosse
    @Muggles

    "Also, lots of earthquakes."

    First thing I checked when ZH-tards were going on about surviving in New Zealand, was the fault lines that lie along side and cross through the tip of the south island.

    Second thing was their restrictive immigration policy.

    Don't forget the New Zealand version of Sandy Hook, et al., that happened in Christchurch.

    No one can escape the Borg collective.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘Second thing was their restrictive immigration policy.’

    It’s not that restrictive.

    I looked a few years ago. As is, my wife and I fell into the ‘we’ll think about it’ category.

    If we fell off a couple of logs, we’d have been in for sure.

  134. @Reg Cæsar

    Riding out the apocalypse in New Zealand sounds pretty good, so long as you like mutton.
     
    And can put up with the likes of Liam "I do stupid stuff on camera" Thompson.

    https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCU5O8FCtOTI4BWhfHF2LHJw


    "I Taught My Dog to Play Minecraft", indeed.


    Cqn you pronounce Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu
    ? That's almost as long as Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­chwyrn­drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­goch and Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg combined.

    https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/l/i/0/t/r/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1420x800.1li0tv.png/1561426972858.jpg

    Replies: @RichardTaylor, @Kratoklastes

    Anyone who watched “The Kenny Everett Video Show” can do it to a pakeha approximation: it was part of the opening credits back in the 80s.

    That said: the iwi to whom the place belongs – Ngāti Kahungunu – pronounce ‘wh’ as ‘f’, so the ‘whaka‘ is pronounced ‘fucka’ and ‘whenua‘ is pronounced ‘fenua’.

    So it’s Taumata-whakatangihanga-koauau-o-Tamatea-haumai-tawhiti-ure-haea-turi-pukaka-piki-maunga-horo-nuku-pokai-whenua-ki-tana-tahu.

    But as I said before, it’s all rather academic because New Zealand doesn’t exist: it’s all made up. Nothing to see. Let’s encourage every one to stay where they are and save the airfare.

    Seriously, it’s for the best.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Kratoklastes


    But as I said before, it’s all rather academic because New Zealand doesn’t exist: it’s all made up. Nothing to see.
     
    So says Risk. But would you trust a board game dreamed up by the director of The Red Balloon? At least we know for sure Atlantic City exists.



    https://img.theculturetrip.com/768x/smart/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/risk_game_map_fixed.png
    , @22pp22
    @Kratoklastes

    New Zealand does exist. Three and some million Pakeha aren't going anywhere. Maoritanga is 90% fake. It is all a game of make-believe. It's all a total joke. Very, very few people speak the language well. Do you really want to go back to non-stop tribal warfare and cannibalism? And you're three quarters white anyway.

  135. @rebel yell
    @jamie b.

    True, 5 million people in NZ is enough to sustain their civilization. But if they are cut off from interaction with the rest of the world will they continue to develop? The need for new weapons is a driver of technological progress. Trade with others drives productivity and cultural progress. Conflict and competition drive progress. I was thinking of some South Pacific tribes that regressed culturally and lost the ability to make fire, which they had when they first arrived in their new, isolated, home.

    Replies: @jamie b., @Joe Stalin

    I was thinking of some South Pacific tribes that regressed culturally and lost the ability to make fire, which they had when they first arrived in their new, isolated, home.

    Yeah, that’s kinda what I thought you were thinking of: Something like how the Tasmanians lost all knowledge of eg. how to fish. But you seem to concede that that only happens with very small, isolated populations. (It should also be noted that having a written language also helps preserve knowledge.)

    But if instead of regression ‘stagnation’ simply means slow progress, then I don’t see what the problem is. NZ would still (supposedly) be preserving civilization, which was the point.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @jamie b.

    There are probably a few score people in New Zealand who have some knowledge of how chip fab plants are built and thousands who have the intellectual capacity to build the needed machines once taught. But it's a hell of a learning curve.

    Replies: @Jack D

  136. @rebel yell
    @jamie b.

    True, 5 million people in NZ is enough to sustain their civilization. But if they are cut off from interaction with the rest of the world will they continue to develop? The need for new weapons is a driver of technological progress. Trade with others drives productivity and cultural progress. Conflict and competition drive progress. I was thinking of some South Pacific tribes that regressed culturally and lost the ability to make fire, which they had when they first arrived in their new, isolated, home.

    Replies: @jamie b., @Joe Stalin

    The need for new weapons is a driver of technological progress.

    Now that they have confiscated all semi-auto rifles, the Kiwis will be busy converting all their Enfields to automatic to deal with future invaders.

  137. @jamie b.
    @Michelle

    In college one of my instructors was a herpetologist from New Zealand. NZ is known for the tuatara and... that's about it, lizard-wise.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    In college one of my instructors was a herpetologist from New Zealand. NZ is known for the tuatara and… that’s about it, lizard-wise.

    What about Jacinda Ardern?

  138. @Triteleia Laxa
    @Hypnotoad666

    They're too small to retain a complex society. You'll be crafting your own shoes from straw and trying to learn how to spear fish, while I'll be going to the theatre after a meal out of roast lamb. More seriously, it'll be antibiotics for me and back to leeches for you.

    I hope they give sufficient warning for the apocalypse so I can make it to New Zealand. Could a handful of enthusiastic beginners steal a yacht and teach themselves how to sail across the world on the fly? Circumnavigation for dummies?

    Replies: @Captain Tripps, @Mobi

    Or a Gulfstream G550, apparently:

    At three recent Silicon Valley dinner parties, guests discussed bugging out to New Zealand if there’s trouble, according to attendees who asked not to be identified because the events were private.

    At one, a prominent venture capitalist was said to have told fellow diners of his escape plans. In the garage of his San Francisco home, he told guests, is a bag of guns hanging from the handlebars of a motorcycle. The bike will allow him to weave through traffic on the way to his private plane, and the guns are for defense against encroaching zombies that may threaten his getaway.

    He intends to fly to a landing strip in Nevada where a jet sits in a hangar, its sole purpose to whisk him and four billionaire co-owners to safety. Their destination: New Zealand

    In recent months, two 150-ton survival bunkers journeyed by land and sea from a Texas warehouse to the shores of New Zealand, where they’re buried 11 feet underground.

    Seven Silicon Valley entrepreneurs have purchased bunkers from Rising S Co. and planted them in New Zealand in the past two years

    “It’s become one of the places for people in Silicon Valley, mostly because it’s not like Silicon Valley at all,” said Reggie Luedtke, an American biomedical engineer who’s moving to New Zealand in October for the Sir Edmund Hillary Fellowship, a program created to lure tech innovators.

    Luedtke, 37, said people in California have asked him if he’s relocating as part of a doomsday contingency plan, because “that’s what the country is known for.”

    Billionaire hedge-fund honcho Julian Robertson owns a lodge overlooking Lake Wakatipu in Queenstown, the South Island’s luxury resort destination. Fidelity National Financial Inc. Chairman Bill Foley has a homestead in the Wairarapa region, north of Wellington, and Titanic director James Cameron bought a mansion nearby at Lake Pounui.

    …More than 10 Americans from the West Coast have bought multimillion-dollar properties in the Queenstown region in the past two years, said Mark Harris, managing director of the local Sotheby’s real estate office.

    Peter Thiel, the billionaire co-founder of PayPal, ignited an uproar when he was granted citizenship after spending just 12 days in the country, prompting allegations that New Zealand’s passport was for sale. Thiel, 50, owns a $13.8 million home on 477 acres (193 hectares) in the lakeside town of Wanaka, with views of snow-capped mountains, and purchased another property in Queenstown, outfitted with a safe room.

    “If you’re the sort of person that says ‘I’m going to have an alternative plan when Armageddon strikes,’ then you would pick the farthest location and the safest environment — and that equals New Zealand if you Google it,” former Prime Minister John Key said in a phone interview.

    In the event of a pandemic, Sam Altman, president of Silicon Valley startup incubator Y Combinator, plans to escape to New Zealand with Thiel, the New Yorker reported in 2016. Now he says he was just joking.

    Robert Vicino, founder of the Vivos Project, a builder of massive underground bunkers, said Silicon Valley elites discussed detailed plans to flee to New Zealand last year at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. He said they foresaw “a revolution or a change where society is going to go after the 1 percenters.” In other words, them.

    The fact that another ‘woke harpy’ PM, Helen Clarke, abolished NZ’s air defence forces (the country no longer possesses a single jet fighter) greatly improves one’s chances by air, I would think.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-rich-new-zealand-doomsday-preppers/

    • Thanks: Triteleia Laxa
    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Mobi

    This stuff sounds so fun, which is weird when you think about it.

    Perhaps apocalypse planning clubs, done semi-ironically, could form the nucleus for an alternative government/elite, which could be switched in for the current one, during a Sisi-esque "revolution", really "reset"?

    Always happy to help, if anyone is thinking of doing these types of things? They can be made a bit silly to avoid progressive hysterical attention, like a half-joking focus on zombies. Plus it is a value-add in itself. What a lark sending bunkers over to New Zealand!

    Social clubs and institutions, with a degree of gnosticism, may be necessary for political change, but they also need to be 21st Century exciting, like this.

    Replies: @James Speaks

  139. @jamie b.
    @rebel yell


    I was thinking of some South Pacific tribes that regressed culturally and lost the ability to make fire, which they had when they first arrived in their new, isolated, home.
     
    Yeah, that's kinda what I thought you were thinking of: Something like how the Tasmanians lost all knowledge of eg. how to fish. But you seem to concede that that only happens with very small, isolated populations. (It should also be noted that having a written language also helps preserve knowledge.)

    But if instead of regression 'stagnation' simply means slow progress, then I don't see what the problem is. NZ would still (supposedly) be preserving civilization, which was the point.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    There are probably a few score people in New Zealand who have some knowledge of how chip fab plants are built and thousands who have the intellectual capacity to build the needed machines once taught. But it’s a hell of a learning curve.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Steve Sailer

    As of 2015 there were some sort of plans to build a chip fab in NZ but it doesn't seem to have materialized:

    https://cspgroup.co.nz/a%20semiconductor%20industry%20in%20new%20zealand%20-%20seriously%3F

    Even if they could build a chip fab of sorts, this is far short of what you need to build a modern computer. You need fabs, plural, for CPUS, for graphics chips, for RAM chips, for flash memory for SSDs, various support chips for each, etc. Then more kinds of chips to make keyboard, mice, routers and modems and other peripherals. And then you need to make LCDs for displays. There are specialized factories for each, which is fine when you are supplying the world market but there's no way you could support all of these industries to serve one small island.

    More likely you would have a Cuban automobile type situation where people would make do with their existing stock of old computer hardware and keep patching them up decade after decade because nothing new was available. There would be cottage industries for repairing old computers and harvesting chips out of machines that were broken beyond repair, taking chips out of old toys and games and repurposing them for more valuable uses, etc.

  140. @Eric F
    @Steve Sailer

    Owensboro Kentucky has a BBQ mutton joint that'll knock your socks off. Highly recommended. Old Hickory Bar-B-Que. I think that entire area of western Kentucky is mutton central though.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    Owensboro Kentucky has a BBQ mutton joint that’ll knock your socks off. Highly recommended. Old Hickory Bar-B-Que. I think that entire area of western Kentucky is mutton central though.

    I’m fasting today and you had to say “Bar-B-Que” … damn!

    But thanks. Not impossible Owensboro could be near my route on a future ramble.

  141. Aussies have first dibs (full freedom of movement and ‘right of abode’)

    If Australia becomes too hot and dry for current population, migration will start reversing across the Tasman Sea (currently, net migration is strongly from NZ to Australia, at least pre-Covid).

    Also, what does Australia do in the face of panicked mass-migration out of Indonesia in some global cataclysm? Flee to NZ?

  142. @RichardTaylor
    @Reg Cæsar

    I thought all the palefaces were White Flighting to Minnesota?

    Hey man, whatever happened to Minnesota Nice?

    https://nypost.com/2021/07/29/minnesota-woman-allegedly-beheaded-in-broad-daylight-by-boyfriend/

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Anon, @Fred C Dobbs, @Peter D. Bredon

    The combination of “broad daylight” and “allegedly by” is amusing. Like it was a magic trick.

  143. @Clyde
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I would like to try mutton. It is not available in the US because it is too gamey for Americans. Keens steak house in NYC famously serves it. Though on the internet some say they simply offer a more aged lamb, not real mutton. Today where are such disputes settled? On you tube of course! I see a few videos I will check out. Real mutton from sheep is eaten around the world, where people are hungry and aren't so fancy. Sounds good with a pint or two of Guinness.

    "Keens Steakhouse is known as the last bastion of the mutton chop, a dish that has fallen entirely out of favor in the rest of the city's chophouses. According to executive chef William Rodgers, who has helmed the kitchen at Keens for the last decade, it continues to be amongst the most popular menu items."

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @stillCARealist, @John Mansfield, @Peter D. Bredon

    There’s a whole Seinfeld episode based around Jerry’s girlfriend of the week, who’s a meat fanatic.

    Earlier they went to a steakhouse and Jerry ordered a salad. The exterior shot as usual was wrong, some place on Ninth Avenue (forget the name) not Keen’s.

  144. @Achmed E. Newman
    Regarding New Zealand, the post topic: I was hoping it may have changed by now, but the woke idiot Jacinda Kate Laurell Ardern is still Prime Minister. Don't let the white bread name fool you - she is a piece of work, as Peak Stupidity discussed in Affirmative Action for the marble-supply-challenged. That post shows appropriate attire for current Western "leaders" - a straight jacket.

    Oh, and if can't bring at least half my guns, I dunno, we're going to have to take a stand here.

    Replies: @James J O'Meara

    I seem to recall that although not actually converting to Islam, she began to wear a hijab to show some kind of “solidarity”, perhaps with the insane. Like all these she-leaders, she has those crazy eyes.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @James J O'Meara

    Yep, James, that's what I referred to in the, admittedly, pretty rambling, PS post I linked to. One guy shot a whole bunch of Moslems due to his anger over the importation of large numbers of highly foreign people to NZ, so she doubled down and said the solution is to embrace them. That way, it won't happen again, or something ...

    Ardern needs a nice outfit to match with those crazy-eyes. Did she come up from the darkest depths of Morder?

    Replies: @Cowboy Shaw

  145. The New Zealand Escape Plan shall go horribly wrong. It has been foretold:
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0779982/

  146. anon[403] • Disclaimer says:
    @James Speaks
    @anon


    Larry Niven and the late Jerry Pournelle
     
    The asteroid that the title refers to lands in the Pacific; the tidal wave floods the San Joaquin Valley. The scientist saved many of his precious books from looters by putting them in zip lock bags and stowing them in the septic tank. IIRC, the cannibal tribe eats him.

    Zombie Apocalypsios are a recurring theme in doom literature, much like what happens when you try to run the Ocoee backwards in a 15'9 Blue Hole OCA. (It was not on purpose, I swear). Apocalypsios are great fiction but we are experiencing something a little different, namely microcatastrophe followed by relative calm followed by microcatastrophe. 2008 was the first and COVID-19 is the second. It's like running the Chattooga Sections III and IV with a guide. Drop, pool and rest, then another drop. Imminently more survivable unless your name happens to be Drew.

    Replies: @anon

    The asteroid that the title refers to lands in the Pacific;

    Er, no. Fragments of comet land in various places in that novel, including the Gulf of Mexico. Pournelle was asked in an interview about an comparable mass astroid impact, and his reply was it would be a very short novel; “Pasteurized planet”.

    Apocalypsios are great fiction but we are experiencing something a little different, namely microcatastrophe followed by relative calm followed by microcatastrophe. 2008 was the first and COVID-19 is the second.

    Whatever. Dude, importing water over the mountains to L.A. involves certain levels of technos and a cohort of people who know what they are doing. Industrial levels of electricity, for example, are assumed. It is not the same thing as running water downhill to NYC.

    “Two years before the mast” describes the LA basin pre 20th century. It was sparsely populated for a reason. That’s the normal, natural condition of the area.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @anon


    Er, no. Fragments of comet land
     
    Er, rude. Comet fragments, asteroid, rocks thrown down by miniture elephants in spaceships, who cares? I read it over forty years ago.

    Replies: @anon

  147. @donut
    @anon

    I asked an older (older than me) guy at the meat dept. of my local market about mutton once and that's exactly what he told me .

    Replies: @Ed Case

    The older Butchers where I buy meat remember Mutton.
    It’s quite a bit bigger than Lamb, one of the old Sydney Cuts was a Square Cut Shoulder.

    Basically, the flap [brisket], shank and neck was removed, the chine [spine] was cross cut on the saw to define the cutlets, and the shoulder was then separated in two along the seam.
    The sailbone side was a Roast and the cutlets side went into a stew.

    Plenty of Mutton is still processed in Australia for Export, mostly to the Middle East or ground up for Meat Pies, still quite popular in Australia.

  148. @slumber_j
    @Jonathan Mason

    I learned from ex-Top Gear guy Jeremy Clarkson's new show Clarkson's Farm that mutton is in fact widely if mostly unwittingly consumed in the UK at least: the "lamb" in your typical British "Indian" (actually Pakistani in almost all cases) restaurant is in fact mutton.

    Kiwis would argue that Australian lamb is mutton. And almost anyone would argue that most of the lamb that's eaten in the US is mutton: in order to qualify as lamb in the USA, a sheep just has to be under one year old. Guess how old most of the sheep we eat are...

    The one place I know of in the US that openly serves and indeed celebrates mutton is the excellent Keens Steakhouse in Manhattan, my favorite place for meat in NYC--more dependably good than the vastly overrated Peter Luger in my experience. Their mutton chop is really, really good, their most famous dish and like most steakhouse meat items actually pretty reasonable if you split it between two people as you should.

    https://youtu.be/xSKLeo6Mb3k?t=192

    Replies: @Ed Case

    Sheep are graded as Lamb, Hogget or Mutton as the carcase passes over the scales at the abattoir.
    Hogget looks similar to Lamb, but a bit larger usually.
    The difference is that Lambs have a bit of bone the size and shape of a large rose thorn where the 2 sides of the pelvis meet, jutting out into the visceral cavity.
    It’s not seen but it’s easily felt.
    It’s completely absent in Hogget, and Sheep of whatever size are distinguishable by a different body shape and carcase appearance.

    • Thanks: Cortes
    • Replies: @slumber_j
    @Ed Case

    Not in the US. If it's under a year old, the carcass is lamb according to the Dept. of Agriculture. The other two classifications are yearling mutton and mutton. USDA grades are a separate question having to do with fat content and conformation.

    https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Lamb%2C_Yearling_Mutton_and_Mutton_Standard%5B1%5D.pdf

  149. @Mike1
    @22pp22

    It must have been a while since you lived there. The #8 wire mentality is dead and buried. Current NZers are staggeringly incompetent. They have all lived off their home equity for decades now.

    The country is currently aggressively getting rid of their last echos of manufacturing. The idea they could build anything beyond a horse shoe if things got weird is absurd. If you've lived there you would also know they have driven out any bright person that accidentally gets born there.

    Have you been there since covid? It is still a fully immigrant staffed country and the attitudes haven't changed.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @22pp22

    In reply to Mike1

    I left Central Otago four weeks ago. I now live in Queensland. My wife’s family are rural Southlanders who own and run their own farms. They are tough as nails and super competent at all things practical. What you say is totally true of JAFAs. Our builder is 80 and can still carry a heavy steel bath unaided. He is also a complete eccentric who includes a poem with every bill he sends us and gave us a guided tour of his coffin which sits in his living room.

    • Replies: @Mike1
    @22pp22

    I'm sure that there are pockets of the old school NZ. I genuinely never see it anywhere.

    The only place I see "toughness" is when people try to maintain social status: the appalling road infrastructure going to Cardrona or Treble Cone is sold as something good. The roads made sense when the prices were cheap and people skied in Swannies. Now the resorts sell themselves as world class, they are buying electric groomers at vast cost, but the roads are still third world.

    I think the fact that 1 million NZers don't live there speaks volumes.

  150. @John Mansfield
    @Clyde

    If you are looking for mutton, try a Navajo restaurant in the Four Corners.

    Replies: @Clyde

    If you are looking for mutton, try a Navajo restaurant in the Four Corners.

    They do raise sheep there so this makes sense. What kind of wacko Federal subsidies and payments do they get for this? If I lived within 500 miles I would make an outing of going to Navajo land to see what they can do with mutton.

  151. @James J O'Meara
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I seem to recall that although not actually converting to Islam, she began to wear a hijab to show some kind of "solidarity", perhaps with the insane. Like all these she-leaders, she has those crazy eyes.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Yep, James, that’s what I referred to in the, admittedly, pretty rambling, PS post I linked to. One guy shot a whole bunch of Moslems due to his anger over the importation of large numbers of highly foreign people to NZ, so she doubled down and said the solution is to embrace them. That way, it won’t happen again, or something …

    Ardern needs a nice outfit to match with those crazy-eyes. Did she come up from the darkest depths of Morder?

    • Replies: @Cowboy Shaw
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The truth about Jacinda is duller than anyone really suspects. There is no ill intent, nor any saintly genius. She is a remarkably normal and ignorant young woman with the usual good intentions of women of her class and age. Her lack of depth is astonishing: she appears to know nothing.

    NZ has benefitted from a quarter century of mostly excellent governance which affords it the luxury of a leader like her. Her government is now becoming mired in incompetence, but she is coasting along on housing equity and the high degree of urban liberalism.

    The country should be able to survive her uselessness. Though the real national talent is increasingly far from Wellington; in Auckland, Sydney, or further afield. And the culture wars have landed with a shock, a bit like punk, which arrived all of a sudden about 3 years after the Sex Pistols split.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/scientists-rubbish-auckland-university-professors-letter-claiming-maori-knowledge-is-not-science/GN55DAZCM47TOZUTPYP2Q3CSLM/

  152. @Francis Miville
    That doesn't work : New Zelanders are not a sovereign people nor have the qualities to be one : they are all lower-class refugees from Britain that will always walk by lefty values. As soon as a civilizational collapse occurs rare resources are captured world-wide by the powers that survive that collapse. The chances are the greatest that they happen to be Asian and New Zealand will probably turn into a mere resource and slave colony for what will remain of the Chinese empire : the worst place to be located at is where rare ressources are coveted by rich armed groups world-wide. China's or any other Pacific-based empire's policy in New Zealand will be to subject it to a Khmer Rouge like regime : kill all the locals that have known a too comfortable life to replace them by imported mindless serfs. Your chances of survival are far better among the Taliban : these groups will be respected by the surviving powers. If China doesn't take up New Zealand it will remain part of the Jewish-led (or Muslim-led, depending on if the Jews have overplayed their hand or not) Anglosphere and their policy will be to make the former Anglo-Saxons pay very dearly for having one day invented democratic civilization and generalized the benefits of science to way too many people.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    That’s an interesting point, Mr. Miville. I am not totally enamored with them, but the Taliban are a lot cooler regarding guns too.

  153. @anon
    @dearieme

    Anyway, how about Uruguay?

    Shares a land border with Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Nope. I would have guessed that too at first, but Uruguay doesn’t border Paraguay, only the other 2 countries.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Nope. I would have guessed that too at first, but Uruguay doesn’t border Paraguay, only the other 2 countries.
     
    Uruguay shares a town with Brazil: Chuí/Chuy. (Wasn't that a hit for the Ohio Express?) The main drag is as open as open borders get.



    https://reportesuycom.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/kiosco-chuy-2.jpg

    http://img.viajeauruguay.com/clima-chuy.jpg

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @anon
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Uruguay doesn’t border Paraguay, only the other 2 countries.

    My error, should have checked with a map prior to commenting. Thanks.

    What's worse, I was sorta kinda recalling the War of the Triple Alliance of the 1860's and...nope, even then there were just two countries bordering Uruguay. In fact, it was Paraguay's invasion of part of Argentina to get to Uruguay that brought the Argentinians into the war.

  154. @stillCARealist
    @Clyde

    "aged lamb"

    Isn't that the same as a sheep?

    "a pint or two of Guinness"

    You could cook up a dead rat and it would be good after two pints of Guinness. Particularly those British pints that are 22 oz. each.

    Replies: @Clyde

    Particularly those British pints that are 22 oz. each.

    “Hence: 1 British pint = 0.96×1.25= 1.2 U. S. pints”
    As far as I can tell a British pint of Guinness has 19 US fluid ounces, which is nice. I should go there for a non-pasteurized Guinness vacation. We only get the pasteurized in the US. Whenever I go to a micro brewery I ask for their darkest beer that is most like Guinness.

  155. @Kratoklastes
    @Reg Cæsar

    Anyone who watched "The Kenny Everett Video Show" can do it to a pakeha approximation: it was part of the opening credits back in the 80s.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3lKOUfsjNI

    That said: the iwi to whom the place belongs - Ngāti Kahungunu - pronounce 'wh' as 'f', so the 'whaka' is pronounced 'fucka' and 'whenua' is pronounced 'fenua'.

    So it's Taumata-whakatangihanga-koauau-o-Tamatea-haumai-tawhiti-ure-haea-turi-pukaka-piki-maunga-horo-nuku-pokai-whenua-ki-tana-tahu.

    But as I said before, it's all rather academic because New Zealand doesn't exist: it's all made up. Nothing to see. Let's encourage every one to stay where they are and save the airfare.

    Seriously, it's for the best.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @22pp22

    But as I said before, it’s all rather academic because New Zealand doesn’t exist: it’s all made up. Nothing to see.

    So says Risk. But would you trust a board game dreamed up by the director of The Red Balloon? At least we know for sure Atlantic City exists.

  156. @Achmed E. Newman
    @anon

    Nope. I would have guessed that too at first, but Uruguay doesn't border Paraguay, only the other 2 countries.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @anon

    Nope. I would have guessed that too at first, but Uruguay doesn’t border Paraguay, only the other 2 countries.

    Uruguay shares a town with Brazil: Chuí/Chuy. (Wasn’t that a hit for the Ohio Express?) The main drag is as open as open borders get.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Reg Cæsar

    Uruguay used to be a part of Brazil, Reg, long ago. Thanks for the pix. That's not a Subaru Brat, is it?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  157. @Kratoklastes
    @Reg Cæsar

    Anyone who watched "The Kenny Everett Video Show" can do it to a pakeha approximation: it was part of the opening credits back in the 80s.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3lKOUfsjNI

    That said: the iwi to whom the place belongs - Ngāti Kahungunu - pronounce 'wh' as 'f', so the 'whaka' is pronounced 'fucka' and 'whenua' is pronounced 'fenua'.

    So it's Taumata-whakatangihanga-koauau-o-Tamatea-haumai-tawhiti-ure-haea-turi-pukaka-piki-maunga-horo-nuku-pokai-whenua-ki-tana-tahu.

    But as I said before, it's all rather academic because New Zealand doesn't exist: it's all made up. Nothing to see. Let's encourage every one to stay where they are and save the airfare.

    Seriously, it's for the best.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @22pp22

    New Zealand does exist. Three and some million Pakeha aren’t going anywhere. Maoritanga is 90% fake. It is all a game of make-believe. It’s all a total joke. Very, very few people speak the language well. Do you really want to go back to non-stop tribal warfare and cannibalism? And you’re three quarters white anyway.

  158. @Reg Cæsar
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Nope. I would have guessed that too at first, but Uruguay doesn’t border Paraguay, only the other 2 countries.
     
    Uruguay shares a town with Brazil: Chuí/Chuy. (Wasn't that a hit for the Ohio Express?) The main drag is as open as open borders get.



    https://reportesuycom.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/kiosco-chuy-2.jpg

    http://img.viajeauruguay.com/clima-chuy.jpg

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Uruguay used to be a part of Brazil, Reg, long ago. Thanks for the pix. That’s not a Subaru Brat, is it?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Achmed E. Newman


    That’s not a Subaru Brat, is it?
     
    Don't give Sailer's Meats any ideas. They've used almost every other ingredient known to man in their brats!

    Well, almost. They haven't gone full Soylent yet:


    https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/515d7e7e5c093f0409b906c9c0aff0cf516769b9/c=0-89-960-631/local/-/media/2016/08/18/WIGroup/StevensPoint/636071149530442866-1479021-383065781868060-8592805356489558633-n.jpg?auto=webp&format=pjpg&width=1200


    I wonder if they source from Sailer's Greenhouse not far away:

    https://www.sailersgreenhouse.com/

  159. @Achmed E. Newman
    @James J O'Meara

    Yep, James, that's what I referred to in the, admittedly, pretty rambling, PS post I linked to. One guy shot a whole bunch of Moslems due to his anger over the importation of large numbers of highly foreign people to NZ, so she doubled down and said the solution is to embrace them. That way, it won't happen again, or something ...

    Ardern needs a nice outfit to match with those crazy-eyes. Did she come up from the darkest depths of Morder?

    Replies: @Cowboy Shaw

    The truth about Jacinda is duller than anyone really suspects. There is no ill intent, nor any saintly genius. She is a remarkably normal and ignorant young woman with the usual good intentions of women of her class and age. Her lack of depth is astonishing: she appears to know nothing.

    NZ has benefitted from a quarter century of mostly excellent governance which affords it the luxury of a leader like her. Her government is now becoming mired in incompetence, but she is coasting along on housing equity and the high degree of urban liberalism.

    The country should be able to survive her uselessness. Though the real national talent is increasingly far from Wellington; in Auckland, Sydney, or further afield. And the culture wars have landed with a shock, a bit like punk, which arrived all of a sudden about 3 years after the Sex Pistols split.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/scientists-rubbish-auckland-university-professors-letter-claiming-maori-knowledge-is-not-science/GN55DAZCM47TOZUTPYP2Q3CSLM/

  160. @Ed Case
    @slumber_j

    Sheep are graded as Lamb, Hogget or Mutton as the carcase passes over the scales at the abattoir.
    Hogget looks similar to Lamb, but a bit larger usually.
    The difference is that Lambs have a bit of bone the size and shape of a large rose thorn where the 2 sides of the pelvis meet, jutting out into the visceral cavity.
    It's not seen but it's easily felt.
    It's completely absent in Hogget, and Sheep of whatever size are distinguishable by a different body shape and carcase appearance.

    Replies: @slumber_j

    Not in the US. If it’s under a year old, the carcass is lamb according to the Dept. of Agriculture. The other two classifications are yearling mutton and mutton. USDA grades are a separate question having to do with fat content and conformation.

    https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Lamb%2C_Yearling_Mutton_and_Mutton_Standard%5B1%5D.pdf

  161. @Steve Sailer
    @Mike1

    Would New Zealand have a steel mill or a chip fab plant if it got cut off?

    I imagine it has the human capital to build ones but that could take years.

    Replies: @Mike1

    NZ is currently shutting:

    – NZ Steel (their only steel mill)
    – Tiwai Point (their only aluminium smelter)
    – Marsden Point Oil Refinery (their only oil refinery)

    They have already shut their oil and gas industry and banned any future exploration.

    Coming soon:

    – Tourism. Wealthy visitors only. This is already in place at the top end. You can currently visit NZ if you are very wealthy through things like $50k two week quarantines or spending $50k on your yacht. These programs are hidden from public view.
    – Farming. Forced reduction of stock capacity administered through the NZ IRS (IRD). Forced reduction of fertilizer use. Government inspectors will be given rights to roam private farms to count stock numbers.

    They have the intellectual capacity for a steel mill but not a chip fab plant. I have relatives that run divisions in the chip industry and the mental and social skills to do that do not exist in NZ. It is essentially a white China: plenty of people that can run a pre-built process but almost no above average people. It differs from China in that it has close to a negative work ethic.

    They are functionally a Chinese satellite despite their five eyes membership. A lot of citizens think this is dangerous but the business elite and the political class is fully in the China camp. Chinese spies and influence operations have unfettered access.

  162. @22pp22
    @Mike1

    In reply to Mike1

    I left Central Otago four weeks ago. I now live in Queensland. My wife’s family are rural Southlanders who own and run their own farms. They are tough as nails and super competent at all things practical. What you say is totally true of JAFAs. Our builder is 80 and can still carry a heavy steel bath unaided. He is also a complete eccentric who includes a poem with every bill he sends us and gave us a guided tour of his coffin which sits in his living room.

    Replies: @Mike1

    I’m sure that there are pockets of the old school NZ. I genuinely never see it anywhere.

    The only place I see “toughness” is when people try to maintain social status: the appalling road infrastructure going to Cardrona or Treble Cone is sold as something good. The roads made sense when the prices were cheap and people skied in Swannies. Now the resorts sell themselves as world class, they are buying electric groomers at vast cost, but the roads are still third world.

    I think the fact that 1 million NZers don’t live there speaks volumes.

  163. @Mobi
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Or a Gulfstream G550, apparently:


    At three recent Silicon Valley dinner parties, guests discussed bugging out to New Zealand if there’s trouble, according to attendees who asked not to be identified because the events were private.

    At one, a prominent venture capitalist was said to have told fellow diners of his escape plans. In the garage of his San Francisco home, he told guests, is a bag of guns hanging from the handlebars of a motorcycle. The bike will allow him to weave through traffic on the way to his private plane, and the guns are for defense against encroaching zombies that may threaten his getaway.

    He intends to fly to a landing strip in Nevada where a jet sits in a hangar, its sole purpose to whisk him and four billionaire co-owners to safety. Their destination: New Zealand
     

    In recent months, two 150-ton survival bunkers journeyed by land and sea from a Texas warehouse to the shores of New Zealand, where they’re buried 11 feet underground.

    Seven Silicon Valley entrepreneurs have purchased bunkers from Rising S Co. and planted them in New Zealand in the past two years
     

    “It’s become one of the places for people in Silicon Valley, mostly because it’s not like Silicon Valley at all,” said Reggie Luedtke, an American biomedical engineer who’s moving to New Zealand in October for the Sir Edmund Hillary Fellowship, a program created to lure tech innovators.

    Luedtke, 37, said people in California have asked him if he’s relocating as part of a doomsday contingency plan, because “that’s what the country is known for.”
     

    Billionaire hedge-fund honcho Julian Robertson owns a lodge overlooking Lake Wakatipu in Queenstown, the South Island’s luxury resort destination. Fidelity National Financial Inc. Chairman Bill Foley has a homestead in the Wairarapa region, north of Wellington, and Titanic director James Cameron bought a mansion nearby at Lake Pounui.

    ...More than 10 Americans from the West Coast have bought multimillion-dollar properties in the Queenstown region in the past two years, said Mark Harris, managing director of the local Sotheby’s real estate office.

    Peter Thiel, the billionaire co-founder of PayPal, ignited an uproar when he was granted citizenship after spending just 12 days in the country, prompting allegations that New Zealand’s passport was for sale. Thiel, 50, owns a $13.8 million home on 477 acres (193 hectares) in the lakeside town of Wanaka, with views of snow-capped mountains, and purchased another property in Queenstown, outfitted with a safe room.

    “If you’re the sort of person that says ‘I’m going to have an alternative plan when Armageddon strikes,’ then you would pick the farthest location and the safest environment — and that equals New Zealand if you Google it,” former Prime Minister John Key said in a phone interview.
     

    In the event of a pandemic, Sam Altman, president of Silicon Valley startup incubator Y Combinator, plans to escape to New Zealand with Thiel, the New Yorker reported in 2016. Now he says he was just joking.
     

    Robert Vicino, founder of the Vivos Project, a builder of massive underground bunkers, said Silicon Valley elites discussed detailed plans to flee to New Zealand last year at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. He said they foresaw “a revolution or a change where society is going to go after the 1 percenters.” In other words, them.
     
    The fact that another 'woke harpy' PM, Helen Clarke, abolished NZ's air defence forces (the country no longer possesses a single jet fighter) greatly improves one's chances by air, I would think.



    https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-rich-new-zealand-doomsday-preppers/

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    This stuff sounds so fun, which is weird when you think about it.

    Perhaps apocalypse planning clubs, done semi-ironically, could form the nucleus for an alternative government/elite, which could be switched in for the current one, during a Sisi-esque “revolution”, really “reset”?

    Always happy to help, if anyone is thinking of doing these types of things? They can be made a bit silly to avoid progressive hysterical attention, like a half-joking focus on zombies. Plus it is a value-add in itself. What a lark sending bunkers over to New Zealand!

    Social clubs and institutions, with a degree of gnosticism, may be necessary for political change, but they also need to be 21st Century exciting, like this.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @Triteleia Laxa


    Perhaps apocalypse planning clubs, done semi-ironically, could form the nucleus for an alternative government/elite, which could be switched in for the current one, during a Sisi-esque “revolution”, really “reset”?
     
    Apocalyptic governments fiefdoms are self organizing. The process goes like this:
    1) Total chaos where humanity is absent and all (gross and dire) things are possible.
    2) Roving bands of hunter/gatherers hunting and gathering dogs, cats, Auntie Em for stew.
    3) Semi-stability as stronger clans settle down and learn to grow food badly.
    4) Quasi-stability as they learn to grow food adequately.
    5) Consolidation of clans into larger political movement.
    6) Stability when fiefdoms recognize each others boundaries.
    7) Individual rights emerge.
    8) Wokeness emerges.
  164. @Triteleia Laxa
    @Mobi

    This stuff sounds so fun, which is weird when you think about it.

    Perhaps apocalypse planning clubs, done semi-ironically, could form the nucleus for an alternative government/elite, which could be switched in for the current one, during a Sisi-esque "revolution", really "reset"?

    Always happy to help, if anyone is thinking of doing these types of things? They can be made a bit silly to avoid progressive hysterical attention, like a half-joking focus on zombies. Plus it is a value-add in itself. What a lark sending bunkers over to New Zealand!

    Social clubs and institutions, with a degree of gnosticism, may be necessary for political change, but they also need to be 21st Century exciting, like this.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    Perhaps apocalypse planning clubs, done semi-ironically, could form the nucleus for an alternative government/elite, which could be switched in for the current one, during a Sisi-esque “revolution”, really “reset”?

    Apocalyptic governments fiefdoms are self organizing. The process goes like this:
    1) Total chaos where humanity is absent and all (gross and dire) things are possible.
    2) Roving bands of hunter/gatherers hunting and gathering dogs, cats, Auntie Em for stew.
    3) Semi-stability as stronger clans settle down and learn to grow food badly.
    4) Quasi-stability as they learn to grow food adequately.
    5) Consolidation of clans into larger political movement.
    6) Stability when fiefdoms recognize each others boundaries.
    7) Individual rights emerge.
    8) Wokeness emerges.

  165. @anon
    @James Speaks

    The asteroid that the title refers to lands in the Pacific;

    Er, no. Fragments of comet land in various places in that novel, including the Gulf of Mexico. Pournelle was asked in an interview about an comparable mass astroid impact, and his reply was it would be a very short novel; "Pasteurized planet".

    Apocalypsios are great fiction but we are experiencing something a little different, namely microcatastrophe followed by relative calm followed by microcatastrophe. 2008 was the first and COVID-19 is the second.

    Whatever. Dude, importing water over the mountains to L.A. involves certain levels of technos and a cohort of people who know what they are doing. Industrial levels of electricity, for example, are assumed. It is not the same thing as running water downhill to NYC.

    "Two years before the mast" describes the LA basin pre 20th century. It was sparsely populated for a reason. That's the normal, natural condition of the area.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    Er, no. Fragments of comet land

    Er, rude. Comet fragments, asteroid, rocks thrown down by miniture elephants in spaceships, who cares? I read it over forty years ago.

    • Replies: @anon
    @James Speaks

    I read it over forty years ago.

    That's nice. The logistics of water in SoCal have not changed. You're overly optimistic.

    Replies: @James Speaks

  166. @Steve Sailer
    @jamie b.

    There are probably a few score people in New Zealand who have some knowledge of how chip fab plants are built and thousands who have the intellectual capacity to build the needed machines once taught. But it's a hell of a learning curve.

    Replies: @Jack D

    As of 2015 there were some sort of plans to build a chip fab in NZ but it doesn’t seem to have materialized:

    https://cspgroup.co.nz/a%20semiconductor%20industry%20in%20new%20zealand%20-%20seriously%3F

    Even if they could build a chip fab of sorts, this is far short of what you need to build a modern computer. You need fabs, plural, for CPUS, for graphics chips, for RAM chips, for flash memory for SSDs, various support chips for each, etc. Then more kinds of chips to make keyboard, mice, routers and modems and other peripherals. And then you need to make LCDs for displays. There are specialized factories for each, which is fine when you are supplying the world market but there’s no way you could support all of these industries to serve one small island.

    More likely you would have a Cuban automobile type situation where people would make do with their existing stock of old computer hardware and keep patching them up decade after decade because nothing new was available. There would be cottage industries for repairing old computers and harvesting chips out of machines that were broken beyond repair, taking chips out of old toys and games and repurposing them for more valuable uses, etc.

  167. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Reg Cæsar

    Uruguay used to be a part of Brazil, Reg, long ago. Thanks for the pix. That's not a Subaru Brat, is it?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    That’s not a Subaru Brat, is it?

    Don’t give Sailer’s Meats any ideas. They’ve used almost every other ingredient known to man in their brats!

    Well, almost. They haven’t gone full Soylent yet:

    I wonder if they source from Sailer’s Greenhouse not far away:

    https://www.sailersgreenhouse.com/

  168. anon[845] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    @anon

    Nope. I would have guessed that too at first, but Uruguay doesn't border Paraguay, only the other 2 countries.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @anon

    Uruguay doesn’t border Paraguay, only the other 2 countries.

    My error, should have checked with a map prior to commenting. Thanks.

    What’s worse, I was sorta kinda recalling the War of the Triple Alliance of the 1860’s and…nope, even then there were just two countries bordering Uruguay. In fact, it was Paraguay’s invasion of part of Argentina to get to Uruguay that brought the Argentinians into the war.

  169. @James Speaks
    @anon


    Er, no. Fragments of comet land
     
    Er, rude. Comet fragments, asteroid, rocks thrown down by miniture elephants in spaceships, who cares? I read it over forty years ago.

    Replies: @anon

    I read it over forty years ago.

    That’s nice. The logistics of water in SoCal have not changed. You’re overly optimistic.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @anon


    The logistics of water in SoCal have not changed. You’re overly optimistic.
     
    Ackshually they have, for the worse. I am not being overly optimistic, I am being extremely pessimistic. Assume the natural water sources coming down from the mountains, meager as they are, are halved due to the drought. How many people could live in So. Cal. in 1870? Halve that number and you get the population count that is resilient today.

    Back to the Hammer: For a having read the novel in one sitting forty years ago (compare to your "review" of the Wikipedia article), mistaking a comet fragment for an asteroid is pretty minor, but it does serve a plot point. Due to multiple impacts, there are no nations able to come to the aid of the displaced.

    Replies: @anon

  170. The world will collapse but New Zealand will be safe as before?

    NZ would be doomed.

    In a truly collapsed world, Chinese and Indonesian and Malaysian “sea peoples” would make quick and very savage work of the place. Do you think NZ could defend themselves? Do you think the billionaire class in their bunkers could survive that? The Polynesians reached NZ in canoes, do you think the post collapse Chinese or Indonesians just might be able to make it? Their PM would welcome the invaders with a peace chant and a hijab. They like everyone rely on the Pax Americana while holding the US in contempt. They would succumb and very rapidly. The only places that will survive a true collapse of the Western liberal order are those that will be able to defend themselves. On top of that you need all the tech of modern civilization. But without the first? Nothing. And NZ does not have the first.

  171. I think hunkering down in Idaho, Wyoming, or Montana would be a better strategy.

  172. @Foreign Expert
    Last time I was in NewZealand they were celebrating diversity.

    Replies: @lavoisier, @loren

    they still are.

    lockdown.

    tranny? leader.

  173. @Sergeant Prepper
    On the downside, you'd probably have to pledge loyalty to Jacinda Ardern. I think I'd rather take my chances with the roving bands of Pfizer zombies than bow to the cult of the horse-toothed lady.

    Replies: @loren

    woman or tranny?

  174. @anon
    @James Speaks

    I read it over forty years ago.

    That's nice. The logistics of water in SoCal have not changed. You're overly optimistic.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    The logistics of water in SoCal have not changed. You’re overly optimistic.

    Ackshually they have, for the worse. I am not being overly optimistic, I am being extremely pessimistic. Assume the natural water sources coming down from the mountains, meager as they are, are halved due to the drought. How many people could live in So. Cal. in 1870? Halve that number and you get the population count that is resilient today.

    Back to the Hammer: For a having read the novel in one sitting forty years ago (compare to your “review” of the Wikipedia article), mistaking a comet fragment for an asteroid is pretty minor, but it does serve a plot point. Due to multiple impacts, there are no nations able to come to the aid of the displaced.

    • Replies: @anon
    @James Speaks

    Ackshually they have, for the worse. I am not being overly optimistic, I am being extremely pessimistic. Assume the natural water sources coming down from the mountains, meager as they are, are halved due to the drought. How many people could live in So. Cal. in 1870? Halve that number and you get the population count that is resilient today.

    Perhaps you could explain that to the person who foolishly wrote this...


    Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over, California ain’t too shabby.
     
    ...because it is a ridiculous assertion. Not just for SoCal, but for large areas of California.

    The citing of Pournelle / Niven was merely to point out just how bad things could get in SoCal. Not to engage in a nitpicking argument over premises of fiction.

    Replies: @James Speaks

  175. @JMcG
    @Bill

    After about 15 minutes, their security guards will shoot them and take their women. Or maybe their women will shoot them and take their security guards.

    Replies: @Bill

    You know that. I know that. They either don’t know it or view it as a technical problem to be solved once they get around to it.

  176. Anonymous[214] • Disclaimer says:

    China will militarily occupy New Zealand and Australia if the collapse comes because the West’s resources will be spread thin and not able to stop it. China will probably purge the inhabitants, and it will have a lot of help. The North Island is already about 1 in 5 or 6 Chinese.

  177. anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @James Speaks
    @anon


    The logistics of water in SoCal have not changed. You’re overly optimistic.
     
    Ackshually they have, for the worse. I am not being overly optimistic, I am being extremely pessimistic. Assume the natural water sources coming down from the mountains, meager as they are, are halved due to the drought. How many people could live in So. Cal. in 1870? Halve that number and you get the population count that is resilient today.

    Back to the Hammer: For a having read the novel in one sitting forty years ago (compare to your "review" of the Wikipedia article), mistaking a comet fragment for an asteroid is pretty minor, but it does serve a plot point. Due to multiple impacts, there are no nations able to come to the aid of the displaced.

    Replies: @anon

    Ackshually they have, for the worse. I am not being overly optimistic, I am being extremely pessimistic. Assume the natural water sources coming down from the mountains, meager as they are, are halved due to the drought. How many people could live in So. Cal. in 1870? Halve that number and you get the population count that is resilient today.

    Perhaps you could explain that to the person who foolishly wrote this…

    Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over, California ain’t too shabby.

    …because it is a ridiculous assertion. Not just for SoCal, but for large areas of California.

    The citing of Pournelle / Niven was merely to point out just how bad things could get in SoCal. Not to engage in a nitpicking argument over premises of fiction.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @anon



    Ackshually they have, for the worse. I am not being overly optimistic, I am being extremely pessimistic. Assume the natural water sources coming down from the mountains, meager as they are, are halved due to the drought. How many people could live in So. Cal. in 1870? Halve that number and you get the population count that is resilient today.
     
    Perhaps you could explain that to the person who foolishly wrote this…

    Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over, California ain’t too shabby.
     

     
    Well, once all but 5,000 people have Zombied themselves out of existence, a person could enjoy the majestic mountains, the Pacific Ocean, low humidity .... That wasn't difficult.

    Why are you such an (anomynous) ass?

    Replies: @anon

  178. @anon
    @James Speaks

    Ackshually they have, for the worse. I am not being overly optimistic, I am being extremely pessimistic. Assume the natural water sources coming down from the mountains, meager as they are, are halved due to the drought. How many people could live in So. Cal. in 1870? Halve that number and you get the population count that is resilient today.

    Perhaps you could explain that to the person who foolishly wrote this...


    Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over, California ain’t too shabby.
     
    ...because it is a ridiculous assertion. Not just for SoCal, but for large areas of California.

    The citing of Pournelle / Niven was merely to point out just how bad things could get in SoCal. Not to engage in a nitpicking argument over premises of fiction.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    Ackshually they have, for the worse. I am not being overly optimistic, I am being extremely pessimistic. Assume the natural water sources coming down from the mountains, meager as they are, are halved due to the drought. How many people could live in So. Cal. in 1870? Halve that number and you get the population count that is resilient today.

    Perhaps you could explain that to the person who foolishly wrote this…

    Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over, California ain’t too shabby.

    Well, once all but 5,000 people have Zombied themselves out of existence, a person could enjoy the majestic mountains, the Pacific Ocean, low humidity …. That wasn’t difficult.

    Why are you such an (anomynous) ass?

    • Replies: @anon
    @James Speaks

    Well, once all but 5,000 people have Zombied themselves out of existence, a person could enjoy the majestic mountains, the Pacific Ocean, low humidity …. That wasn’t difficult.

    Childish, ignorant, foolish and laughable.

    lol.

    Replies: @James Speaks

  179. @James Speaks
    @anon



    Ackshually they have, for the worse. I am not being overly optimistic, I am being extremely pessimistic. Assume the natural water sources coming down from the mountains, meager as they are, are halved due to the drought. How many people could live in So. Cal. in 1870? Halve that number and you get the population count that is resilient today.
     
    Perhaps you could explain that to the person who foolishly wrote this…

    Ackshually, once the initial Zombie Apocalypse phase* is over, California ain’t too shabby.
     

     
    Well, once all but 5,000 people have Zombied themselves out of existence, a person could enjoy the majestic mountains, the Pacific Ocean, low humidity .... That wasn't difficult.

    Why are you such an (anomynous) ass?

    Replies: @anon

    Well, once all but 5,000 people have Zombied themselves out of existence, a person could enjoy the majestic mountains, the Pacific Ocean, low humidity …. That wasn’t difficult.

    Childish, ignorant, foolish and laughable.

    lol.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @anon

    Ignore

  180. @anon
    @James Speaks

    Well, once all but 5,000 people have Zombied themselves out of existence, a person could enjoy the majestic mountains, the Pacific Ocean, low humidity …. That wasn’t difficult.

    Childish, ignorant, foolish and laughable.

    lol.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    Ignore

  181. @Anon
    Peter Thiel is a pretty smart guy.

    New Zealand citizenship[edit]

    Thiel was a German citizen by birth, and became an American citizen by naturalization.[163] He became a New Zealand citizen in 2011, which became public in 2017.[164] In 2015, he purchased a 193-hectare estate near Wanaka, which fitted the classification of "sensitive land" and required foreign buyers to obtain permission from New Zealand's Overseas Investment Office. Thiel did not require permission as he was a citizen.[165]

    He had received permanent residency in New Zealand in 2007.[166][167] He had visited the country on four occasions prior to his application for citizenship,[168] and had spent 12 days in New Zealand, fewer than the typical residency requirement of 1350 days.[169] When he applied, he stated he had no intention of living in New Zealand, which is a criterion for citizenship.[170] Then-Minister of Internal Affairs Nathan Guy waived those normal requirements, under an "exceptional circumstances" clause of the Citizenships Act.[164][168][170]

    Thiel's application cited his contribution to the economy—he had founded a venture capital fund in Auckland before applying, and invested $7 million in two local companies—as well as a $1 million donation to the 2011 Christchurch earthquake appeal fund.[168] Rod Drury, founder of Xero, also provided a formal reference for Thiel's application.[164] Thiel's case was cited by critics as an example that New Zealand passports can be bought,[168][171] something the New Zealand government denied.[168] At the time that his citizenship was revealed, The New Zealand Herald came out with the report that the New Zealand Defence Force, the Security Intelligence Service and the Government Communications and Security Bureau have long-standing links with Thiel's Palantir.[172]
     

    Replies: @Sick of Orcs, @Triteleia Laxa, @Bill Jones, @Mobi

    We may have some high-profile lurkers!

    Google co-founder Larry Page gets New Zealand residency, raising questions

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/international-business/article-google-co-founder-larry-page-gets-new-zealand-residency-raising/

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