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New Yorker: Illegal Immigrants Are Not Good Enough to Make It in Mexico So America Has to Keep Them
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As you may have heard, Donald Trump said, “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best.” In The New Yorker, Jeffrey Toobin inadvertently validates Trump’s point that Mexico isn’t sending America its creme de la creme:

American Limbo
While politicians block reform, what is happening to immigrant families?

BY JEFFREY TOOBIN

Olga Flores’s children are U.S. citizens, but she remains at risk of being deported.

Olga Flores, the seventh of eleven siblings, was born in a small town in the central Mexican state of Hidalgo thirty-nine years ago. “There was no work,” she told me recently. “The only thing for a woman to do was to get married, have children, and cook for her whole life.” A job in a nearby city would have required a high-school certificate, but her education ended in middle school. So in January of 1998, when she was twenty-one, Flores arranged to come to the United States illegally. She took her first trip on an airplane, to northern Mexico, and made her way to Sonoyta, a town on the Arizona border.

In other words, this Mexican national wasn’t good enough for Mexico, so America must take her and her anchor baby descendants ad infinitum.

 
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  1. America, the world’s flophouse. Emma Lazarus would be proud.

    • Replies: @Realist
    @Rob McX

    "Emma Lazarus would be proud."

    My exact sentiment.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Rob McX


    America, the world’s flophouse. Emma Lazarus would be proud.

     

    But Sephardic Emma didn't want "the wrong kind of Jews". She just liked her maids cheap.

    Replies: @SFG

    , @Hereward
    @Rob McX

    The phrase Teddy Roosevelt used was "polyglot boarding house."

  2. It’s odd how desperate people like Flores are, to come to the most racist, evil nation on the planet.

    My legal resident wife (of Scandinavian extraction) remarked to her mother recently about an openly illegal immigrant in her public university class. Her mother was confused–why hasn’t she been deported? Why isn’t anyone telling the authorities?

    That’s really all that’s broken about our immigration policy.

    • Replies: @Realist
    @Ewan MacErc

    "That’s really all that’s broken about our immigration policy."

    Or our country.

  3. In all fairness, Jeffrey Toobin and The New Yorker have been long supporters of open immigration to Israel from Sub Saharan Africa and Islamic countries in the Middle East.

    He’s a good guy. Totally being honest and fair. There is no agenda or double standard going on.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    @Clifford Brown


    In all fairness, Jeffrey Toobin and The New Yorker have been long supporters of open immigration to Israel from Sub Saharan Africa and Islamic countries in the Middle East.
     
    So, Jeffery Toobin, who makes his living acting as a gatekeeper of acceptable thought for the PTB and TWMNBN who run the Cultural Marxist Media, can be all for Open Borders for Israel as well so he can strike a pose as a committed idealist. But in doing so Toobin is 100% aware that as far as Israel is concerned nobody cares one bit what he has to say or is listening.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    , @Wilkey
    @Clifford Brown

    Note Netanyahu's multiple use of the term "illegal infiltrators." My God, a country that elects a prime minister who serves the interests of the people? How dare those evil racist Israeli bastards elect such a man!

  4. Also, notice the weasel placement of the statistic after the Trump quotation, in which Mexican immigrants, which Trump is discussing, are elided with all first-generation immigrants:

    “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best,” he said. “They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” (The crime rate among first-generation immigrants is significantly lower than that of the general population, according to Bianca Bersani, a sociologist at the University of Massachusetts-Boston.)

    Did the professor take account of illegal immigrants? How? Are his number valid in the first place?

    • Replies: @jon
    @Ewan MacErc


    Also, notice the weasel placement of the statistic after the Trump quotation, in which Mexican immigrants, which Trump is discussing, are elided with all first-generation immigrants:
     
    They always cheat in some way when they cite immigrant crime stats - they lump illegals with legals, or they lump Asian H1B programmers with farm workers, etc. Whatever it takes to get the numbers right.

    The most ridiculous cheat, to me, is when they "correct" for things like education, age, income and gender to show that the mostly young, poor, male, uneducated immigrants aren't significantly more prone to crime than the comparable group in the US. They are literally proving Trump right, Mexico is sending us their worst.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Ewan MacErc

    Did the professor take account of illegal immigrants? How? Are his number valid in the first place?

    Ann Coulter addresses this in her most recent column:


    It turns out that neither Piquero nor Bersani compared immigrant crime to "the overall population" -- as the British Guardian recently claimed in an article purporting to prove Donald Trump wrong. Rather, they compare immigrants' crime rate to the crime rate of America's most criminally inclined subgroups.

    Thus, for example, once you get past the paywall, you will find that Piquero and Bersani's joint study, "Comparing Patterns and Predictors of Immigrant Offending Among a Sample of Adjudicated Youth," used as its base group "adolescents who were found guilty of a serious offense."

    THAT'S NOT A REPRESENTATIVE SAMPLE OF AMERICANS! It's a representative sample of teenagers who are convicted criminals.

    Similarly, professor Bersani's oft-cited, but never-read study, "An Examination of First and Second Generation Immigrant Offending Trajectories," looked at a population group that included "an over-sample of Hispanic and African-American youth."

    Instead of immigrants who are less crime-prone than our native blacks and Hispanics, we were hoping for immigrants less criminal than our Norwegians.

    True, as Bersani explains, "because many immigrants initially settle in disadvantaged environments and are exposed to a number of crime-inducing risk factors, their experiences may be similar to many native-born minorities -- particularly the African-American population."

    But here's an idea: How about NOT taking in immigrants who are poor, uneducated, come from dysfunctional families and settle in disadvantaged environments?
     
  5. “In The New Yorker, Jeffrey Toobin inadvertently validates Donald Trump’s point that Mexico isn’t sending America its creme de la creme of Mexicans:”

    If Mexico was sending it’s creme de la creme to The United States, you would be seeing affluent Mexican neighborhoods popping up all over the Los Angeles metropolitan area, but you don’t. Mexican neighborhoods in the Los Angeles metropolitan area are all lower working class.

    It seems that Iran though tend to send it’s creme de creme to The United States, because Persians are over represented among Los Angeles affluent class. Same for China and India. Lot of Chinese nationals are buying up big beautiful expensive homes in affluent neighborhoods in Southern and Northern California. The same can not be said for Mexican nationals.

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    @Jefferson

    Are the LA Persians mostly Jews or are they mostly vaguely secular Shias?

    Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...

    , @Bliss
    @Jefferson


    If Mexico was sending it’s creme de la creme to The United States
     
    Don't tell us your sicilian ancestors who immigrated to America a century ago were the creme de la creme of Italy. Unless you want to make us laugh...

    Likewise, it wasn't the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it's crop. Etcetera...

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.

    Replies: @Lot, @map, @syonredux, @Sunbeam, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Bugg, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @iSteveFan, @dcite

    , @Socially Extinct
    @Jefferson

    If China or India bordered the Western U.S., I don't think the quality of Asian immigrant would look quite like it does now. Geographic access is a spigot for human refuse.

    Conversely, geographic inaccessibility is also a refinery of human immigration.

  6. ‘A job in a nearby city would have required a high school certificate, while she only had a middle school certificate’.

    Yup. The implication being that entry level accreditations are somehow lower in the USA than in Mexico. An interesting proposition to say the least.

  7. @Jefferson
    "In The New Yorker, Jeffrey Toobin inadvertently validates Donald Trump’s point that Mexico isn’t sending America its creme de la creme of Mexicans:"

    If Mexico was sending it's creme de la creme to The United States, you would be seeing affluent Mexican neighborhoods popping up all over the Los Angeles metropolitan area, but you don't. Mexican neighborhoods in the Los Angeles metropolitan area are all lower working class.

    It seems that Iran though tend to send it's creme de creme to The United States, because Persians are over represented among Los Angeles affluent class. Same for China and India. Lot of Chinese nationals are buying up big beautiful expensive homes in affluent neighborhoods in Southern and Northern California. The same can not be said for Mexican nationals.

    Replies: @Maj. Kong, @Bliss, @Socially Extinct

    Are the LA Persians mostly Jews or are they mostly vaguely secular Shias?

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Maj. Kong

    Like so many Americans you have a very distorted picture of Iran. Persia has a long and cosmopolitan history and had a very cosmopolitan culture. There were many ethnic minorities before the Ayatollahs took charge. LA's current population of immigrants from Persia includes many Iranian-Armenians. I'd bet there are also quite a few other Iranian-Christian ethnic minorities. Probably some Zoroastrians. And I'd be surprised if a few Baha'ists didn't get over here in time to escape the Ayattolahs' persecution of that faith, which Mohammedans regard as a heresy.

    Replies: @dcite

  8. There is a Six Flags amusement park in Mexico City. No doubt the vast majority of Mexican families pouring into the U.S are the type that would never be able to afford to take their kids to on a day trip to Six Flags in Mexico City on their monthly Mexican salaries. We are basically receiving Mexico’s version of poor Eastern European Gypsies.

  9. jon says:
    @Ewan MacErc
    Also, notice the weasel placement of the statistic after the Trump quotation, in which Mexican immigrants, which Trump is discussing, are elided with all first-generation immigrants:

    “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best,” he said. “They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” (The crime rate among first-generation immigrants is significantly lower than that of the general population, according to Bianca Bersani, a sociologist at the University of Massachusetts-Boston.)
     
    Did the professor take account of illegal immigrants? How? Are his number valid in the first place?

    Replies: @jon, @Harry Baldwin

    Also, notice the weasel placement of the statistic after the Trump quotation, in which Mexican immigrants, which Trump is discussing, are elided with all first-generation immigrants:

    They always cheat in some way when they cite immigrant crime stats – they lump illegals with legals, or they lump Asian H1B programmers with farm workers, etc. Whatever it takes to get the numbers right.

    The most ridiculous cheat, to me, is when they “correct” for things like education, age, income and gender to show that the mostly young, poor, male, uneducated immigrants aren’t significantly more prone to crime than the comparable group in the US. They are literally proving Trump right, Mexico is sending us their worst.

  10. Immigration is good, so we are re-immigrating them back to Mexico.

    Mexico will benefit from the re-immigrants who will do jobs Mexicans won’t do..

  11. @Rob McX
    America, the world's flophouse. Emma Lazarus would be proud.

    Replies: @Realist, @Reg Cæsar, @Hereward

    “Emma Lazarus would be proud.”

    My exact sentiment.

  12. @Ewan MacErc
    It's odd how desperate people like Flores are, to come to the most racist, evil nation on the planet.

    My legal resident wife (of Scandinavian extraction) remarked to her mother recently about an openly illegal immigrant in her public university class. Her mother was confused--why hasn't she been deported? Why isn't anyone telling the authorities?

    That's really all that's broken about our immigration policy.

    Replies: @Realist

    “That’s really all that’s broken about our immigration policy.”

    Or our country.

  13. @Jefferson
    "In The New Yorker, Jeffrey Toobin inadvertently validates Donald Trump’s point that Mexico isn’t sending America its creme de la creme of Mexicans:"

    If Mexico was sending it's creme de la creme to The United States, you would be seeing affluent Mexican neighborhoods popping up all over the Los Angeles metropolitan area, but you don't. Mexican neighborhoods in the Los Angeles metropolitan area are all lower working class.

    It seems that Iran though tend to send it's creme de creme to The United States, because Persians are over represented among Los Angeles affluent class. Same for China and India. Lot of Chinese nationals are buying up big beautiful expensive homes in affluent neighborhoods in Southern and Northern California. The same can not be said for Mexican nationals.

    Replies: @Maj. Kong, @Bliss, @Socially Extinct

    If Mexico was sending it’s creme de la creme to The United States

    Don’t tell us your sicilian ancestors who immigrated to America a century ago were the creme de la creme of Italy. Unless you want to make us laugh…

    Likewise, it wasn’t the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it’s crop. Etcetera…

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Bliss

    The lower class of Italy produced Leonardo and Michelangelo, and the "dregs" of England was largely younger sons of middle class families. My own ancestors were skilled artisans and the children of landowning farmers.

    Replies: @Alsatian

    , @map
    @Bliss

    Those were not immigrants.

    Those were colonists.

    Replies: @Realist

    , @syonredux
    @Bliss


    Likewise, it wasn’t the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass.
     
    Incorrect.Read Fischer's Albion's Seed.Cf, for example, how the Massachusetts Bay Colony was largely settled by people from the middling ranks of English society, while the underclass was intentionally excluded (174-180).

    For that matter, there was very little that was Norman about the English aristocracy by the 17th century.

    Replies: @5371, @Ivy

    , @Sunbeam
    @Bliss

    "Likewise, it wasn’t the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it’s crop. Etcetera…

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK."

    That's certainly an interesting theory, and I've heard it proposed before. Intuitively you would think there is something to it.

    But has anyone ever studied the effect? I mean this is something that would violate the PC sensitivities of just about everyone, and I'm not talking about just the usual suspects here.

    So is there any kind of IQ study of white Australians whose ancestors were "POME" strictly, compared to the average denizen of Hertford-West-Angle-Bumbleshire, whose ancestors have been living around the village green for nigh on forever?

    Replies: @Stan D Mute

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Bliss

    You sound like another victim of Howard Zinn. I've noticed in my teaching that those raised in the late 1970's and alter have really absurd ideas about American history that apparently derive from teachers who were raised on "revisionist" history. (Recently I had an entire seminar of graduate students insist that Abraham Lincoln had been a slave owner!) The early European settlers of the Americas were pretty much all middle and upper class. No one else could afford the voyage. Later there were indentured servants but only the hardiest of these "white slaves" survived and reproduced. In the 19th century, European immigrants filled a desperate need for labor. There was under-employment in this country then, not high levels of unemployment as now.

    I'd love a citation for your absurd assertion thatr Gypsies accounted for any significant amount of immigration to the Americas. That's laughable. Even now they constitute a vanishingly small proportion of the total population. (Thank our lucky stars for that.)

    Replies: @IBC, @Bliss

    , @Bugg
    @Bliss

    The US needed cheap labor. Today with chronic underemployment we do not need cheap labor. In fact cheap labor costs American by knocking rungs out of the wage ladder for working class, working poor, building and food service, hotel workers, entry level and teen jobs(teen and summer jobs practically disappearing since the 1986 amnesty). . Also, the Sicilians, Irish and Jews of a century ago had to be sponsored, that they would work and not go on the dole, or their sponsor would support them. Perhaps those people were not the upper crust of Europe by they came to be American. And lots went back when they decided the US wasn't for them. Also they weren't a drag on schools, ERs and social service spending. If the morons who ran things had refrained from the idiocy of Prohibition, there would have been almost no crime at all. Though my Irish grandpa would not have had a bar on 2nd Avenue.

    How does Toobin continue to get work after his divorce after his "interaction" with Ted Koppel's daughter?

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Bliss

    An African I know well advised me never to accept the poverty stories of other Africans. If they made it here, they were prosperous back home. (Not necessarily above the table, either.)

    Even with Mexico, coyotes don't come cheap. But is spending a year's savings on them, rather than something productive, a sign of good character?

    , @Anonymous
    @Bliss

    There are definitely "Norman aristocrats" among my English ancestors. Among them John West, one of the first governors of Virginia. He was a descendant of Lord De La Warr, for whom the state of Delaware is named, and Mary Carey, the sister of Anne Boleyn and aunt of Elizabeth I. I suspect there are lots of Americans descended from the same guy. You have to remember back in the 1600s it was the wealthy that successfully raised the most healthy children, and who probably have the most descendants today. It just gets watered down over a few hundred years. A lot of peasants got removed from the gene pool, many 0f those indentured servants never even got the chance to marry.

    Replies: @ANON

    , @iSteveFan
    @Bliss


    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.
     
    And look at what those dregs made of Canada, the USA and Australia. Three of the most desirable nations in the world in which seemingly everyone wants to join.

    Replies: @Anonym

    , @dcite
    @Bliss

    I can trace one of my lines back to 1635, Connecticut
    and they had been landholders in Ringstead. Actually most of the known settlers in New England, the part I know most about, were known for being educated for the time, and independent. For the time, they were fairly well off. That's why universal education was adopted so naturally in New England, most of the mid-Atlantic, and the heavily Scottish North Carolina. There were indentured servants, but they did not form a majority in most of the country. I'm not sure they were even "dregs" considering the kinds of offences that could cause that situation.

    In any case, that accusation only proves a point. Even the "dregs" of Europe, apparently, are capable of developing a civilization, which, warts & all, excited the admiration of the world until that secret-society playground called Washington D.C. got completely taken over by psychopaths who wanted to rule the world.

  14. Cognitive dissonance in some cases, but deliberate propagandizing in most. Politics is like advertising: you don’t have to fool the smart people, you have only to fool the most people.

  15. @Bliss
    @Jefferson


    If Mexico was sending it’s creme de la creme to The United States
     
    Don't tell us your sicilian ancestors who immigrated to America a century ago were the creme de la creme of Italy. Unless you want to make us laugh...

    Likewise, it wasn't the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it's crop. Etcetera...

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.

    Replies: @Lot, @map, @syonredux, @Sunbeam, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Bugg, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @iSteveFan, @dcite

    The lower class of Italy produced Leonardo and Michelangelo, and the “dregs” of England was largely younger sons of middle class families. My own ancestors were skilled artisans and the children of landowning farmers.

    • Replies: @Alsatian
    @Lot

    Agreed. Granted, I have only my own family history as a basis for comparison, but true (landless) peasants were probably the minority. My Alsatian forebears were skilled craftsfolk while the Irish side had enough means to give a go at owning sheep ranches in New Zealand before setting up shop in Boston and then Indiana. When 19th century European petit bourgeois families had 5-10 potential heirs per generation, the incentive was great for the middle and younger sibs to decamp to the wide open semi-tamed wilderness of the European colonial frontier.

  16. >>>In other words, this Mexican national wasn’t good enough for Mexico, so America must take her and her anchor baby descendants ad infinitum.

    Ad infinitum, that’s the key idea. Liberals might not share our apprehension over current mass migration but a little thinking will lead anybody to be apprehensive over mass immigration ad infinitum. Do liberals believe that someday they will be able to stop the flow, when it has achieved their goal of disempowering the troglodyte white class, when even now, where the majority of the population wants it stopped (troglodytes, of course), we can’t even get the merest traction with the political class? How will it possibly be curtailed in the future with a majority asian/latino demographic that only knows how to demand more and more for their own kind? Après moi, le déluge.

  17. @Bliss
    @Jefferson


    If Mexico was sending it’s creme de la creme to The United States
     
    Don't tell us your sicilian ancestors who immigrated to America a century ago were the creme de la creme of Italy. Unless you want to make us laugh...

    Likewise, it wasn't the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it's crop. Etcetera...

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.

    Replies: @Lot, @map, @syonredux, @Sunbeam, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Bugg, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @iSteveFan, @dcite

    Those were not immigrants.

    Those were colonists.

    • Replies: @Realist
    @map

    Excellent point.

  18. @Bliss
    @Jefferson


    If Mexico was sending it’s creme de la creme to The United States
     
    Don't tell us your sicilian ancestors who immigrated to America a century ago were the creme de la creme of Italy. Unless you want to make us laugh...

    Likewise, it wasn't the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it's crop. Etcetera...

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.

    Replies: @Lot, @map, @syonredux, @Sunbeam, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Bugg, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @iSteveFan, @dcite

    Likewise, it wasn’t the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass.

    Incorrect.Read Fischer’s Albion’s Seed.Cf, for example, how the Massachusetts Bay Colony was largely settled by people from the middling ranks of English society, while the underclass was intentionally excluded (174-180).

    For that matter, there was very little that was Norman about the English aristocracy by the 17th century.

    • Replies: @5371
    @syonredux

    Agreed on both counts. However, Fischer grossly overestimates the aristocratic chops of the leaders of early Virginia society.

    , @Ivy
    @syonredux

    & @sunbeam

    Georgia and Australia, with their penal colony roots, got infusions of forced criminal immigrants via what was known in England as Transportation. A useful reference is Hughes' The Fatal Shore:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fatal_Shore

    Replies: @Sunbeam

  19. @syonredux
    @Bliss


    Likewise, it wasn’t the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass.
     
    Incorrect.Read Fischer's Albion's Seed.Cf, for example, how the Massachusetts Bay Colony was largely settled by people from the middling ranks of English society, while the underclass was intentionally excluded (174-180).

    For that matter, there was very little that was Norman about the English aristocracy by the 17th century.

    Replies: @5371, @Ivy

    Agreed on both counts. However, Fischer grossly overestimates the aristocratic chops of the leaders of early Virginia society.

  20. @Ewan MacErc
    Also, notice the weasel placement of the statistic after the Trump quotation, in which Mexican immigrants, which Trump is discussing, are elided with all first-generation immigrants:

    “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best,” he said. “They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” (The crime rate among first-generation immigrants is significantly lower than that of the general population, according to Bianca Bersani, a sociologist at the University of Massachusetts-Boston.)
     
    Did the professor take account of illegal immigrants? How? Are his number valid in the first place?

    Replies: @jon, @Harry Baldwin

    Did the professor take account of illegal immigrants? How? Are his number valid in the first place?

    Ann Coulter addresses this in her most recent column:

    It turns out that neither Piquero nor Bersani compared immigrant crime to “the overall population” — as the British Guardian recently claimed in an article purporting to prove Donald Trump wrong. Rather, they compare immigrants’ crime rate to the crime rate of America’s most criminally inclined subgroups.

    Thus, for example, once you get past the paywall, you will find that Piquero and Bersani’s joint study, “Comparing Patterns and Predictors of Immigrant Offending Among a Sample of Adjudicated Youth,” used as its base group “adolescents who were found guilty of a serious offense.”

    THAT’S NOT A REPRESENTATIVE SAMPLE OF AMERICANS! It’s a representative sample of teenagers who are convicted criminals.

    Similarly, professor Bersani’s oft-cited, but never-read study, “An Examination of First and Second Generation Immigrant Offending Trajectories,” looked at a population group that included “an over-sample of Hispanic and African-American youth.”

    Instead of immigrants who are less crime-prone than our native blacks and Hispanics, we were hoping for immigrants less criminal than our Norwegians.

    True, as Bersani explains, “because many immigrants initially settle in disadvantaged environments and are exposed to a number of crime-inducing risk factors, their experiences may be similar to many native-born minorities — particularly the African-American population.”

    But here’s an idea: How about NOT taking in immigrants who are poor, uneducated, come from dysfunctional families and settle in disadvantaged environments?

    • Thanks: Mr McKenna
  21. @Lot
    @Bliss

    The lower class of Italy produced Leonardo and Michelangelo, and the "dregs" of England was largely younger sons of middle class families. My own ancestors were skilled artisans and the children of landowning farmers.

    Replies: @Alsatian

    Agreed. Granted, I have only my own family history as a basis for comparison, but true (landless) peasants were probably the minority. My Alsatian forebears were skilled craftsfolk while the Irish side had enough means to give a go at owning sheep ranches in New Zealand before setting up shop in Boston and then Indiana. When 19th century European petit bourgeois families had 5-10 potential heirs per generation, the incentive was great for the middle and younger sibs to decamp to the wide open semi-tamed wilderness of the European colonial frontier.

  22. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Western civilization almost one century ago:

    Now, here’s present-day civilization in a land from where we (and especially Europe) are getting a lot of our new immigrants/refugees:

    Even if you’re a well-informed HBD realist, seeing this can be shocking and leave you in despair. How one generation could throw away a millennia of advancing civilization so easily?

    • Replies: @Stan D Mute
    @Anonymous


    Even if you’re a well-informed HBD realist, seeing this can be shocking and leave you in despair. How one generation could throw away a millennia of advancing civilization so easily?
     
    What strikes me is the massive evil of taking these people from their tribal homes and forcing them to try to live in Western Civilization. The results of that experiment have been the greatest social disaster in history for both the Africans and the Europeans. When you watch the African in his native habitat and culture, so much of what you see in the American ghettoes begins to make sense. It is every bit as cruel and perverse as it would be to force Europeans to live in African villages and abide their customs. The only possible result is destruction.
  23. @Bliss
    @Jefferson


    If Mexico was sending it’s creme de la creme to The United States
     
    Don't tell us your sicilian ancestors who immigrated to America a century ago were the creme de la creme of Italy. Unless you want to make us laugh...

    Likewise, it wasn't the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it's crop. Etcetera...

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.

    Replies: @Lot, @map, @syonredux, @Sunbeam, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Bugg, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @iSteveFan, @dcite

    “Likewise, it wasn’t the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it’s crop. Etcetera…

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.”

    That’s certainly an interesting theory, and I’ve heard it proposed before. Intuitively you would think there is something to it.

    But has anyone ever studied the effect? I mean this is something that would violate the PC sensitivities of just about everyone, and I’m not talking about just the usual suspects here.

    So is there any kind of IQ study of white Australians whose ancestors were “POME” strictly, compared to the average denizen of Hertford-West-Angle-Bumbleshire, whose ancestors have been living around the village green for nigh on forever?

    • Replies: @Stan D Mute
    @Sunbeam


    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.”
     
    This is classic SJW propagandist conflation. The early American and Australian settlers came to undeveloped territory where they had two options: (1) work very hard (and intelligently) to scrape survival from the land or (2) die. Conflating this with the current immigrant is nonsense. The current immigrant bears zero risk of hunger or death (unless shot during commission of a crime). He has no need to work - the State will provide him a luxurious air conditioned home, food, transportation, and medical care. To the extent he may decide to work, his income is supplemented by State welfare gifts along with what he may steal (by avoiding taxation).

    This is such obvious common sense that when you hear someone conflating immigrants prior to the 1920's to current immigrants its an immediate red flag that the speaker is an anti-white (or anti Western Civilization) fanatic.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  24. @Bliss
    @Jefferson


    If Mexico was sending it’s creme de la creme to The United States
     
    Don't tell us your sicilian ancestors who immigrated to America a century ago were the creme de la creme of Italy. Unless you want to make us laugh...

    Likewise, it wasn't the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it's crop. Etcetera...

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.

    Replies: @Lot, @map, @syonredux, @Sunbeam, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Bugg, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @iSteveFan, @dcite

    You sound like another victim of Howard Zinn. I’ve noticed in my teaching that those raised in the late 1970’s and alter have really absurd ideas about American history that apparently derive from teachers who were raised on “revisionist” history. (Recently I had an entire seminar of graduate students insist that Abraham Lincoln had been a slave owner!) The early European settlers of the Americas were pretty much all middle and upper class. No one else could afford the voyage. Later there were indentured servants but only the hardiest of these “white slaves” survived and reproduced. In the 19th century, European immigrants filled a desperate need for labor. There was under-employment in this country then, not high levels of unemployment as now.

    I’d love a citation for your absurd assertion thatr Gypsies accounted for any significant amount of immigration to the Americas. That’s laughable. Even now they constitute a vanishingly small proportion of the total population. (Thank our lucky stars for that.)

    • Replies: @IBC
    @Jus' Sayin'...


    Later there were indentured servants but only the hardiest of these “white slaves” survived and reproduced. In the 19th century, European immigrants filled a desperate need for labor. There was under-employment in this country then, not high levels of unemployment as now.
     
    Okay, but "hardy" has nothing to do with middle-class values. The "dregs" of European society had a much better chance of successfully reproducing and bettering their economic position in frontier America than in Europe, so they probably have quite a few descendents alive today, especially in certain parts of the country.

    And just like today, in the late 19th century, a "desperate need for labor," was partly a matter of perspective. There were many cases of greedy business owners firing their striking work force (mostly immigrants themselves) and replacing them with less expensive help, fresh off the boat. Although, I'm not sure there was a boat involved, the owners of the Ponemah textile mill in Connecticut, replaced their mostly Irish-born workforce with French Canadians in response to demands for better working conditions. And this happened during the sustained national economic depression of the 1870s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taftville,_Connecticut

    Most Mexican-Americans and Mexican nationals in the US, are probably from peasant (but still respectable) backgrounds. Given the scale of immigration and the relative ease of getting and staying here, it's likely that there're also quite a few Mexican criminals who've made it here, not to mention a significant contingent of Mexico's top-out-of-sight-wealthy who feel safer here. Sometimes the two categories converge, as in the case of El Chapo. He actually has anchor babies born in California!

    http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-where-is-el-chapo-guzman-20150713-story.html
    , @Bliss
    @Jus' Sayin'...


    I’d love a citation for your absurd assertion thatr Gypsies accounted for any significant amount of immigration to the Americas. That’s laughable.
     
    For someone who claims to be a teacher it is your ignorance that is laughable (and inexcusable). You are clearly ignorant of the fact that it was Spain and Portugal that provided the first settlers in the Americas and that these countries had significant numbers of gypsies and that these gypsies constituted its outcaste population and that it was disproportionately the losers of Iberia who first settled the Americas. Many if not most of the mestizos, mulattoes and tri-racials of latin america have morisco, marrano and gypsy ancestry. You can see the berber, arab, jew and gypsy in their phenotypes...

    Btw, at least two of the Presidents of Brazil had gypsy ancestry:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Lu%C3%ADs

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juscelino_Kubitschek
  25. @Maj. Kong
    @Jefferson

    Are the LA Persians mostly Jews or are they mostly vaguely secular Shias?

    Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...

    Like so many Americans you have a very distorted picture of Iran. Persia has a long and cosmopolitan history and had a very cosmopolitan culture. There were many ethnic minorities before the Ayatollahs took charge. LA’s current population of immigrants from Persia includes many Iranian-Armenians. I’d bet there are also quite a few other Iranian-Christian ethnic minorities. Probably some Zoroastrians. And I’d be surprised if a few Baha’ists didn’t get over here in time to escape the Ayattolahs’ persecution of that faith, which Mohammedans regard as a heresy.

    • Replies: @dcite
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    There are many Bahai's among them, who can come from Muslim, Jewish, or Zoroastrian ancestry. Since the religion prescribes equal education and opportunities for both genders, they were considered dangerously progressive in Iran.

  26. “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best.” I dare say that that has always been true of immigration into the US.

    The difference now is that some countries find it easier to send their worst.

  27. @syonredux
    @Bliss


    Likewise, it wasn’t the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass.
     
    Incorrect.Read Fischer's Albion's Seed.Cf, for example, how the Massachusetts Bay Colony was largely settled by people from the middling ranks of English society, while the underclass was intentionally excluded (174-180).

    For that matter, there was very little that was Norman about the English aristocracy by the 17th century.

    Replies: @5371, @Ivy

    & @sunbeam

    Georgia and Australia, with their penal colony roots, got infusions of forced criminal immigrants via what was known in England as Transportation. A useful reference is Hughes’ The Fatal Shore:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fatal_Shore

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    @Ivy

    Yeah, but look at the site you are on.

    Nothing matters (to paraphrase the gist of this site) but what you can score on an IQ test.

    Nothing. It is the determinant of all. Whether you are moral. Whether you wipe after you take a dump. Whether your impulse control is so poor that you have to have sex with anything that moves, go on the dole, and balloon into a blimp because you can't stop shoving cheetos into your orange stained face. (Thank god for Mountain Dew, cause your throat would be awful sore otherwise. Gobble, gobble. Turn the channel to something Kardashian.)

    Whether you are prone to promiscuity. Whether you have a proper future time orientation (there has to be some pithy English quote about shillings a week and happiness somewhere), or you live by the loathsome philosophy of YOLO.

    The ancestors of the modern Australians may have had a rough go of it, and it was the fault of some b*#tard wearing a wig in England, pronouncing his judgements in that oh so proper Masterpiece Theatre style.

    But you see that doesn't matter. What matters is what the IQ test says.

    So since none of us are PC, are the descendants of these "Pommys" dumber than the old root stock in a little town 150 miles outside of London? Or heck, say 150 klicks, whatever.

    And by extension, are white Americans dumber than Europeans in general? We've got a reasonably good selection theory, only the losers with nothing to lose came over; the more capable ones stayed.

    So do we have any signal to observe? Or did regression to the mean give white Americans the good old standard issue 100 IQ, like all the other white folks.

    Or is there something wrong with the loser theory?

    Replies: @Realist

  28. @Clifford Brown
    In all fairness, Jeffrey Toobin and The New Yorker have been long supporters of open immigration to Israel from Sub Saharan Africa and Islamic countries in the Middle East.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRhH2nu3dXY

    He's a good guy. Totally being honest and fair. There is no agenda or double standard going on.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyCCJ6B2WE

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Wilkey

    In all fairness, Jeffrey Toobin and The New Yorker have been long supporters of open immigration to Israel from Sub Saharan Africa and Islamic countries in the Middle East.

    So, Jeffery Toobin, who makes his living acting as a gatekeeper of acceptable thought for the PTB and TWMNBN who run the Cultural Marxist Media, can be all for Open Borders for Israel as well so he can strike a pose as a committed idealist. But in doing so Toobin is 100% aware that as far as Israel is concerned nobody cares one bit what he has to say or is listening.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    @anonymous-antimarxist

    Please, Please, Please, can somebody explain to me how in the hell does Jeffery Toobin still has a job and why any sane person would give a squat concerning anything he has to say. .

    Amy Schumer's comedic persona, with some element of truth, is that her personal life is a trainwreck. However, both Toobin's professional and especially personal life have been one painfully embarrassing trainwreck after another for a couple of decades.

    The only rational for Toobin still having a career is that he is so shamelessly willing to keeping push a totally bogus "MSM" narrative that he literally remains the last man to abandon the sinking ship. Think the Duke Rape Case, the Obama as the great post racial hope, Kagan and Sotomayor are qualified for the SCOTUS, Trayvon Martin, Ferguson, .... the list is endless.

    The perhaps the PTB/TWMNBN need such a man precisely because of his obvious intellectual limitations and shocking lack of integrity despite his increasing lack of credibility. What Toobin clearly does have is a bottomless reserve of chutzpah.

    You mean after decades of being told that we can not turn away any the future Dreamers, Entrepreneurs, Scholars, Astronauts... we may have instead been taking in Mexico's underclass, but now it would be morally reprehensible for us to send them back.

    Who would have thunk it?????

  29. Mexico is the land of opportunity. I wish someone would deport me to Mexico. The world’s richest man is from Mexico, and he was not born there. If you cannot make it in Mexico, you cannot make it elsewhere. This explains why everyone yells when they are deported. They know they are losers.

    • Replies: @iSteveFan
    @flyingtiger


    The world’s richest man is from Mexico, and he was not born there.
     
    Carlos Slim was in fact born in Mexico City.
    , @Former Darfur
    @flyingtiger

    Mexico is the land of opportunity....compared to what and for whom?

    As compared to the United States, not many. As compared to Haiti or Zimbabwe, it would be, if indeed any situation were an opportunity to the average Haitian or Zimbabwean. Most of them are just not capable of making it anywhere.

    At one time, there were non-Spanish Whites, Middle Easterners and others who found in Mexico an opportunity, but it would be slim pickings today for most even if they could legally go there to work. That goes double for Americans, who are not really wanted in Mexico except as rich dumb tourists.

    For most nonwealthy people, the United States is still the place where one has the best chance of "success" in the entrepreneurial sense. However, I will say that French truck drivers and German autoworkers and European aircraft mechanics generally probably live a more secure and comfortable life than their American counterparts. Being a factory worker in western Europe means you don't worry about healthcare, college for your kids, or about getting fired unless you commit some enormously grave offense. You have a smaller house and if you have a car it's a little schumerbox, and if you need to be De Gaullebladdered in France plan on several months on the waiting list. If you need a MRI anywhere in Europe it's a big deal.

    Most of us are not entrepreneurs, and since only a small number of us can be successful entrepreneurs by definition, the hassle of trying to do a startup in Europe isn't why we wouldn't like living there. The lack of living space is.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  30. @anonymous-antimarxist
    @Clifford Brown


    In all fairness, Jeffrey Toobin and The New Yorker have been long supporters of open immigration to Israel from Sub Saharan Africa and Islamic countries in the Middle East.
     
    So, Jeffery Toobin, who makes his living acting as a gatekeeper of acceptable thought for the PTB and TWMNBN who run the Cultural Marxist Media, can be all for Open Borders for Israel as well so he can strike a pose as a committed idealist. But in doing so Toobin is 100% aware that as far as Israel is concerned nobody cares one bit what he has to say or is listening.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    Please, Please, Please, can somebody explain to me how in the hell does Jeffery Toobin still has a job and why any sane person would give a squat concerning anything he has to say. .

    Amy Schumer’s comedic persona, with some element of truth, is that her personal life is a trainwreck. However, both Toobin’s professional and especially personal life have been one painfully embarrassing trainwreck after another for a couple of decades.

    The only rational for Toobin still having a career is that he is so shamelessly willing to keeping push a totally bogus “MSM” narrative that he literally remains the last man to abandon the sinking ship. Think the Duke Rape Case, the Obama as the great post racial hope, Kagan and Sotomayor are qualified for the SCOTUS, Trayvon Martin, Ferguson, …. the list is endless.

    The perhaps the PTB/TWMNBN need such a man precisely because of his obvious intellectual limitations and shocking lack of integrity despite his increasing lack of credibility. What Toobin clearly does have is a bottomless reserve of chutzpah.

    You mean after decades of being told that we can not turn away any the future Dreamers, Entrepreneurs, Scholars, Astronauts… we may have instead been taking in Mexico’s underclass, but now it would be morally reprehensible for us to send them back.

    Who would have thunk it?????

  31. @Bliss
    @Jefferson


    If Mexico was sending it’s creme de la creme to The United States
     
    Don't tell us your sicilian ancestors who immigrated to America a century ago were the creme de la creme of Italy. Unless you want to make us laugh...

    Likewise, it wasn't the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it's crop. Etcetera...

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.

    Replies: @Lot, @map, @syonredux, @Sunbeam, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Bugg, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @iSteveFan, @dcite

    The US needed cheap labor. Today with chronic underemployment we do not need cheap labor. In fact cheap labor costs American by knocking rungs out of the wage ladder for working class, working poor, building and food service, hotel workers, entry level and teen jobs(teen and summer jobs practically disappearing since the 1986 amnesty). . Also, the Sicilians, Irish and Jews of a century ago had to be sponsored, that they would work and not go on the dole, or their sponsor would support them. Perhaps those people were not the upper crust of Europe by they came to be American. And lots went back when they decided the US wasn’t for them. Also they weren’t a drag on schools, ERs and social service spending. If the morons who ran things had refrained from the idiocy of Prohibition, there would have been almost no crime at all. Though my Irish grandpa would not have had a bar on 2nd Avenue.

    How does Toobin continue to get work after his divorce after his “interaction” with Ted Koppel’s daughter?

  32. @Ivy
    @syonredux

    & @sunbeam

    Georgia and Australia, with their penal colony roots, got infusions of forced criminal immigrants via what was known in England as Transportation. A useful reference is Hughes' The Fatal Shore:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fatal_Shore

    Replies: @Sunbeam

    Yeah, but look at the site you are on.

    Nothing matters (to paraphrase the gist of this site) but what you can score on an IQ test.

    Nothing. It is the determinant of all. Whether you are moral. Whether you wipe after you take a dump. Whether your impulse control is so poor that you have to have sex with anything that moves, go on the dole, and balloon into a blimp because you can’t stop shoving cheetos into your orange stained face. (Thank god for Mountain Dew, cause your throat would be awful sore otherwise. Gobble, gobble. Turn the channel to something Kardashian.)

    Whether you are prone to promiscuity. Whether you have a proper future time orientation (there has to be some pithy English quote about shillings a week and happiness somewhere), or you live by the loathsome philosophy of YOLO.

    The ancestors of the modern Australians may have had a rough go of it, and it was the fault of some b*#tard wearing a wig in England, pronouncing his judgements in that oh so proper Masterpiece Theatre style.

    But you see that doesn’t matter. What matters is what the IQ test says.

    So since none of us are PC, are the descendants of these “Pommys” dumber than the old root stock in a little town 150 miles outside of London? Or heck, say 150 klicks, whatever.

    And by extension, are white Americans dumber than Europeans in general? We’ve got a reasonably good selection theory, only the losers with nothing to lose came over; the more capable ones stayed.

    So do we have any signal to observe? Or did regression to the mean give white Americans the good old standard issue 100 IQ, like all the other white folks.

    Or is there something wrong with the loser theory?

    • Replies: @Realist
    @Sunbeam

    "Nothing matters (to paraphrase the gist of this site) but what you can score on an IQ test."

    Didn't do so good....huh?

    Integrity is a least as important as intelligence.

  33. IBC says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Bliss

    You sound like another victim of Howard Zinn. I've noticed in my teaching that those raised in the late 1970's and alter have really absurd ideas about American history that apparently derive from teachers who were raised on "revisionist" history. (Recently I had an entire seminar of graduate students insist that Abraham Lincoln had been a slave owner!) The early European settlers of the Americas were pretty much all middle and upper class. No one else could afford the voyage. Later there were indentured servants but only the hardiest of these "white slaves" survived and reproduced. In the 19th century, European immigrants filled a desperate need for labor. There was under-employment in this country then, not high levels of unemployment as now.

    I'd love a citation for your absurd assertion thatr Gypsies accounted for any significant amount of immigration to the Americas. That's laughable. Even now they constitute a vanishingly small proportion of the total population. (Thank our lucky stars for that.)

    Replies: @IBC, @Bliss

    Later there were indentured servants but only the hardiest of these “white slaves” survived and reproduced. In the 19th century, European immigrants filled a desperate need for labor. There was under-employment in this country then, not high levels of unemployment as now.

    Okay, but “hardy” has nothing to do with middle-class values. The “dregs” of European society had a much better chance of successfully reproducing and bettering their economic position in frontier America than in Europe, so they probably have quite a few descendents alive today, especially in certain parts of the country.

    And just like today, in the late 19th century, a “desperate need for labor,” was partly a matter of perspective. There were many cases of greedy business owners firing their striking work force (mostly immigrants themselves) and replacing them with less expensive help, fresh off the boat. Although, I’m not sure there was a boat involved, the owners of the Ponemah textile mill in Connecticut, replaced their mostly Irish-born workforce with French Canadians in response to demands for better working conditions. And this happened during the sustained national economic depression of the 1870s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taftville,_Connecticut

    Most Mexican-Americans and Mexican nationals in the US, are probably from peasant (but still respectable) backgrounds. Given the scale of immigration and the relative ease of getting and staying here, it’s likely that there’re also quite a few Mexican criminals who’ve made it here, not to mention a significant contingent of Mexico’s top-out-of-sight-wealthy who feel safer here. Sometimes the two categories converge, as in the case of El Chapo. He actually has anchor babies born in California!

    http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-where-is-el-chapo-guzman-20150713-story.html

  34. @Rob McX
    America, the world's flophouse. Emma Lazarus would be proud.

    Replies: @Realist, @Reg Cæsar, @Hereward

    America, the world’s flophouse. Emma Lazarus would be proud.

    But Sephardic Emma didn’t want “the wrong kind of Jews”. She just liked her maids cheap.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Reg Cæsar

    No, she advocated for bringing over all those impoverished Russian Jews from the Pale who then became the ancestors of the modern Left.

    'The wrong kind of Jews' is a real prejudice Steve has alluded to in the past--it's the reason Mount Sinai Hospital was more upscale than Beth Israel in NYC. But it wasn't one Emma Lazarus shared.

  35. @Bliss
    @Jefferson


    If Mexico was sending it’s creme de la creme to The United States
     
    Don't tell us your sicilian ancestors who immigrated to America a century ago were the creme de la creme of Italy. Unless you want to make us laugh...

    Likewise, it wasn't the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it's crop. Etcetera...

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.

    Replies: @Lot, @map, @syonredux, @Sunbeam, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Bugg, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @iSteveFan, @dcite

    An African I know well advised me never to accept the poverty stories of other Africans. If they made it here, they were prosperous back home. (Not necessarily above the table, either.)

    Even with Mexico, coyotes don’t come cheap. But is spending a year’s savings on them, rather than something productive, a sign of good character?

  36. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Bliss
    @Jefferson


    If Mexico was sending it’s creme de la creme to The United States
     
    Don't tell us your sicilian ancestors who immigrated to America a century ago were the creme de la creme of Italy. Unless you want to make us laugh...

    Likewise, it wasn't the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it's crop. Etcetera...

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.

    Replies: @Lot, @map, @syonredux, @Sunbeam, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Bugg, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @iSteveFan, @dcite

    There are definitely “Norman aristocrats” among my English ancestors. Among them John West, one of the first governors of Virginia. He was a descendant of Lord De La Warr, for whom the state of Delaware is named, and Mary Carey, the sister of Anne Boleyn and aunt of Elizabeth I. I suspect there are lots of Americans descended from the same guy. You have to remember back in the 1600s it was the wealthy that successfully raised the most healthy children, and who probably have the most descendants today. It just gets watered down over a few hundred years. A lot of peasants got removed from the gene pool, many 0f those indentured servants never even got the chance to marry.

    • Replies: @ANON
    @Anonymous

    Furthermore the English typically practiced primogeniture, meaning that the eldest son inherited the entire estate, family business, etc. Therefore it made sense for younger sons to set out on their own and leave England for the new world. Besides, who wouldn't want to leave the small island of Great Britain for the vast, relatively untouched North American landmass?

  37. SFG says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    @Rob McX


    America, the world’s flophouse. Emma Lazarus would be proud.

     

    But Sephardic Emma didn't want "the wrong kind of Jews". She just liked her maids cheap.

    Replies: @SFG

    No, she advocated for bringing over all those impoverished Russian Jews from the Pale who then became the ancestors of the modern Left.

    ‘The wrong kind of Jews’ is a real prejudice Steve has alluded to in the past–it’s the reason Mount Sinai Hospital was more upscale than Beth Israel in NYC. But it wasn’t one Emma Lazarus shared.

  38. iSteveFan says:
    @Bliss
    @Jefferson


    If Mexico was sending it’s creme de la creme to The United States
     
    Don't tell us your sicilian ancestors who immigrated to America a century ago were the creme de la creme of Italy. Unless you want to make us laugh...

    Likewise, it wasn't the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it's crop. Etcetera...

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.

    Replies: @Lot, @map, @syonredux, @Sunbeam, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Bugg, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @iSteveFan, @dcite

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.

    And look at what those dregs made of Canada, the USA and Australia. Three of the most desirable nations in the world in which seemingly everyone wants to join.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    @iSteveFan

    By the time transportation ended in 1868, 162k convicts had been transported to Australia, which by that time numbered a million people. Since then there has been a lot of immigration. Australia's background is not majority convict. Which makes sense considering that the mean IQ is around 100. You would not expect that in a country where convicts are the majority of the nation's background.

  39. @flyingtiger
    Mexico is the land of opportunity. I wish someone would deport me to Mexico. The world's richest man is from Mexico, and he was not born there. If you cannot make it in Mexico, you cannot make it elsewhere. This explains why everyone yells when they are deported. They know they are losers.

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Former Darfur

    The world’s richest man is from Mexico, and he was not born there.

    Carlos Slim was in fact born in Mexico City.

  40. @Rob McX
    America, the world's flophouse. Emma Lazarus would be proud.

    Replies: @Realist, @Reg Cæsar, @Hereward

    The phrase Teddy Roosevelt used was “polyglot boarding house.”

  41. @iSteveFan
    @Bliss


    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.
     
    And look at what those dregs made of Canada, the USA and Australia. Three of the most desirable nations in the world in which seemingly everyone wants to join.

    Replies: @Anonym

    By the time transportation ended in 1868, 162k convicts had been transported to Australia, which by that time numbered a million people. Since then there has been a lot of immigration. Australia’s background is not majority convict. Which makes sense considering that the mean IQ is around 100. You would not expect that in a country where convicts are the majority of the nation’s background.

  42. I’m curious about comparative numbers of “who lives where.” I think it would be eye opening, perhaps even slightly to the willfully blind. What I mean are numbers like this:

    Number of Mexicans living in America: xxs
    Number of Americans living in Mexico: xxx

    Number of Guatemalans living in America: xxxx
    Number of Americans living in Guatemala: xxxx

    Number of Chinese living in America: xxxx
    Number of Americans living in China: xxxx

    On and on down the line. Would be interesting for European nations as well. Just who is providing whom with lebensraum? Has anyone seen numbers like this? I never have.

  43. @Sunbeam
    @Ivy

    Yeah, but look at the site you are on.

    Nothing matters (to paraphrase the gist of this site) but what you can score on an IQ test.

    Nothing. It is the determinant of all. Whether you are moral. Whether you wipe after you take a dump. Whether your impulse control is so poor that you have to have sex with anything that moves, go on the dole, and balloon into a blimp because you can't stop shoving cheetos into your orange stained face. (Thank god for Mountain Dew, cause your throat would be awful sore otherwise. Gobble, gobble. Turn the channel to something Kardashian.)

    Whether you are prone to promiscuity. Whether you have a proper future time orientation (there has to be some pithy English quote about shillings a week and happiness somewhere), or you live by the loathsome philosophy of YOLO.

    The ancestors of the modern Australians may have had a rough go of it, and it was the fault of some b*#tard wearing a wig in England, pronouncing his judgements in that oh so proper Masterpiece Theatre style.

    But you see that doesn't matter. What matters is what the IQ test says.

    So since none of us are PC, are the descendants of these "Pommys" dumber than the old root stock in a little town 150 miles outside of London? Or heck, say 150 klicks, whatever.

    And by extension, are white Americans dumber than Europeans in general? We've got a reasonably good selection theory, only the losers with nothing to lose came over; the more capable ones stayed.

    So do we have any signal to observe? Or did regression to the mean give white Americans the good old standard issue 100 IQ, like all the other white folks.

    Or is there something wrong with the loser theory?

    Replies: @Realist

    “Nothing matters (to paraphrase the gist of this site) but what you can score on an IQ test.”

    Didn’t do so good….huh?

    Integrity is a least as important as intelligence.

  44. @map
    @Bliss

    Those were not immigrants.

    Those were colonists.

    Replies: @Realist

    Excellent point.

  45. ANON • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Bliss

    There are definitely "Norman aristocrats" among my English ancestors. Among them John West, one of the first governors of Virginia. He was a descendant of Lord De La Warr, for whom the state of Delaware is named, and Mary Carey, the sister of Anne Boleyn and aunt of Elizabeth I. I suspect there are lots of Americans descended from the same guy. You have to remember back in the 1600s it was the wealthy that successfully raised the most healthy children, and who probably have the most descendants today. It just gets watered down over a few hundred years. A lot of peasants got removed from the gene pool, many 0f those indentured servants never even got the chance to marry.

    Replies: @ANON

    Furthermore the English typically practiced primogeniture, meaning that the eldest son inherited the entire estate, family business, etc. Therefore it made sense for younger sons to set out on their own and leave England for the new world. Besides, who wouldn’t want to leave the small island of Great Britain for the vast, relatively untouched North American landmass?

  46. This is where conservative issues fail the U.S. If they didn’t have issues, they’d have gotten into debates with amnesty supporters and, after they’d said something like “Mexico isn’t sending us her best” and gotten their heads handed to them (metaphorically speaking) would realize that saying things like that isn’t productive and would either change what they say or sit down and be quiet.

    For those who want to actually do something and have a positive impact, learn how to say things in the right way. That doesn’t mean being PC, it just means being smart and realizing the right way to go about things. If that’s over your head, then just help out with what I do.

    The proof’s in the pudding: we’ve been doing things the Teaparty/Trump/Idiocracy way for years and there are still millions of illegal aliens in the U.S., Obama’s in effect legalized millions of them, and President Hillary will no doubt legalize as many millions as she wants to.

    If doing things the Teaparty/Trump/Idiocracy way worked, then that wouldn’t be the current situation.

    Much less Trump, much more @MLP_Officiel, scro.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @24AheadDotCom

    I listened to Rick Santorum being interviewed on Fox's Special Report tonight. I was very impressed with what he had to say about immigration. I think he's making the best argument, one that would be the hardest for Democrats to respond to. Main points:

    --Immigration policy must be based on what best serves the interests of Americans, not some altruistic or idealistic vision.
    --Use e-verify and enforce employee sanctions to drive illegals from the workplace.
    --Illegal immigration is depressing the wages of Americans and largely accounts for wage stagnation since the 1970s.
    --We don't need more unskilled workers when we don't have enough work for our own.
    --The so-called skilled workers we're bringing in are mostly ordinary programmers replacing American workers and contributing nothing of great value.
    --Cut LEGAL immigration by 25 percent. We don't need to import over a million new workers a year.

    There's more. I think he hit all the key points without opening himself up to easy accusations of racism. The Fox All-Star Panel remains oblivious, of course. Too bad Santorum doesn't have a chance.

    Starts at the 4:00 mark:
    http://uneditedpolitics.com/rick-santorum-full-interview-on-fox-news-special-report-with-bret-baier-72015/

    Replies: @Former Darfur

    , @MarkinLA
    @24AheadDotCom

    You are under the delusion that these people are just ignorant and if you talk to them in the right way you will change their minds. Nothing is further from the truth. At their very core they are the people in that stupid MTV white privilege video. They have been trained to despise the white working class - even if they are white.

    I have done exactly what you have said at many times on left leaning web sites. Initially, I will be called a xenophobe and racist even though all I mentioned was the stagnant wages. Finally, somebody who thinks they know more than some right wing rube will actually talk to you. However, they aren't listening. It is just one left wing talking point after another. They always answer your questions with another and never admit to being even a little wrong. Your sources are always racist and theirs (SPLC and ADL) are above reproach.

    Tell them that raising wages by limiting workers reduces income inequality and will eventually lead to jobs for engineers to automate the process and they cry that there is no way to guarantee that there will be automation or they insist nobody can make a machine to pick strawberries.

    It is even funnier when they start crying that the farmer's crops are rotting in the field or the small businessman can't find workers whose pay is so low they still need welfare. When you try and explain how that isn't the sign of a healthy economy or that crops rot in the field all the time and these are staged photo-ops they just never respond or just tell you how stupid you are.

    They even spring that nonsense about Japan needing immigrants. When you point out Japan is doing well without them they start pulling crap out of their asses about Japan's population in the year 2035 and 2060 if they don't get immigrants. Somehow, they deduce by all of that the US needs immigrants to avoid being Japan II. When you finally get around to showing them that their point are irrelevant to the US they go back to calling you a racist and xenophobe.

    These people know what is going on. They just don't want to hear it no matter how it is presented. It is just so much easier to ignore people who politely state their position and then shut up.

    Replies: @Stan D Mute, @Ozymandias, @24AheadDotCom

  47. @flyingtiger
    Mexico is the land of opportunity. I wish someone would deport me to Mexico. The world's richest man is from Mexico, and he was not born there. If you cannot make it in Mexico, you cannot make it elsewhere. This explains why everyone yells when they are deported. They know they are losers.

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Former Darfur

    Mexico is the land of opportunity….compared to what and for whom?

    As compared to the United States, not many. As compared to Haiti or Zimbabwe, it would be, if indeed any situation were an opportunity to the average Haitian or Zimbabwean. Most of them are just not capable of making it anywhere.

    At one time, there were non-Spanish Whites, Middle Easterners and others who found in Mexico an opportunity, but it would be slim pickings today for most even if they could legally go there to work. That goes double for Americans, who are not really wanted in Mexico except as rich dumb tourists.

    For most nonwealthy people, the United States is still the place where one has the best chance of “success” in the entrepreneurial sense. However, I will say that French truck drivers and German autoworkers and European aircraft mechanics generally probably live a more secure and comfortable life than their American counterparts. Being a factory worker in western Europe means you don’t worry about healthcare, college for your kids, or about getting fired unless you commit some enormously grave offense. You have a smaller house and if you have a car it’s a little schumerbox, and if you need to be De Gaullebladdered in France plan on several months on the waiting list. If you need a MRI anywhere in Europe it’s a big deal.

    Most of us are not entrepreneurs, and since only a small number of us can be successful entrepreneurs by definition, the hassle of trying to do a startup in Europe isn’t why we wouldn’t like living there. The lack of living space is.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Former Darfur


    Being a factory worker in western Europe means you don’t worry about healthcare, college for your kids…
     
    If they can get in, that is. There are far fewer seats per capita in Europe. How do admissions to Heidelberg or Sorbonne compare with Ivies?

    …or about getting fired unless you commit some enormously grave offense.
     
    Shouldn't that read "even if", at least in France?

    Replies: @anonymous

  48. @24AheadDotCom
    This is where conservative issues fail the U.S. If they didn't have issues, they'd have gotten into debates with amnesty supporters and, after they'd said something like "Mexico isn't sending us her best" and gotten their heads handed to them (metaphorically speaking) would realize that saying things like that isn't productive and would either change what they say or sit down and be quiet.

    For those who want to actually do something and have a positive impact, learn how to say things in the right way. That doesn't mean being PC, it just means being smart and realizing the right way to go about things. If that's over your head, then just help out with what I do.

    The proof's in the pudding: we've been doing things the Teaparty/Trump/Idiocracy way for years and there are still millions of illegal aliens in the U.S., Obama's in effect legalized millions of them, and President Hillary will no doubt legalize as many millions as she wants to.

    If doing things the Teaparty/Trump/Idiocracy way worked, then that wouldn't be the current situation.

    Much less Trump, much more @MLP_Officiel, scro.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @MarkinLA

    I listened to Rick Santorum being interviewed on Fox’s Special Report tonight. I was very impressed with what he had to say about immigration. I think he’s making the best argument, one that would be the hardest for Democrats to respond to. Main points:

    –Immigration policy must be based on what best serves the interests of Americans, not some altruistic or idealistic vision.
    –Use e-verify and enforce employee sanctions to drive illegals from the workplace.
    –Illegal immigration is depressing the wages of Americans and largely accounts for wage stagnation since the 1970s.
    –We don’t need more unskilled workers when we don’t have enough work for our own.
    –The so-called skilled workers we’re bringing in are mostly ordinary programmers replacing American workers and contributing nothing of great value.
    –Cut LEGAL immigration by 25 percent. We don’t need to import over a million new workers a year.

    There’s more. I think he hit all the key points without opening himself up to easy accusations of racism. The Fox All-Star Panel remains oblivious, of course. Too bad Santorum doesn’t have a chance.

    Starts at the 4:00 mark:
    http://uneditedpolitics.com/rick-santorum-full-interview-on-fox-news-special-report-with-bret-baier-72015/

    • Replies: @Former Darfur
    @Harry Baldwin

    "There’s more. I think he hit all the key points without opening himself up to easy accusations of racism. The Fox All-Star Panel remains oblivious, of course. Too bad Santorum doesn’t have a chance."

    He couldn't even hold his Senate seat, he's a poor politician. Obama is much worse, but the media and the powere that be are pro Obama and anti-Santorum, so he's screwed.

  49. @Clifford Brown
    In all fairness, Jeffrey Toobin and The New Yorker have been long supporters of open immigration to Israel from Sub Saharan Africa and Islamic countries in the Middle East.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRhH2nu3dXY

    He's a good guy. Totally being honest and fair. There is no agenda or double standard going on.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyCCJ6B2WE

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Wilkey

    Note Netanyahu’s multiple use of the term “illegal infiltrators.” My God, a country that elects a prime minister who serves the interests of the people? How dare those evil racist Israeli bastards elect such a man!

  50. “So in January of 1998, when she was twenty-one, Flores arranged to come to the United States illegally…”

    “Arranged.” Coolio. When I was 21, I arranged to rob a bank.

  51. @Harry Baldwin
    @24AheadDotCom

    I listened to Rick Santorum being interviewed on Fox's Special Report tonight. I was very impressed with what he had to say about immigration. I think he's making the best argument, one that would be the hardest for Democrats to respond to. Main points:

    --Immigration policy must be based on what best serves the interests of Americans, not some altruistic or idealistic vision.
    --Use e-verify and enforce employee sanctions to drive illegals from the workplace.
    --Illegal immigration is depressing the wages of Americans and largely accounts for wage stagnation since the 1970s.
    --We don't need more unskilled workers when we don't have enough work for our own.
    --The so-called skilled workers we're bringing in are mostly ordinary programmers replacing American workers and contributing nothing of great value.
    --Cut LEGAL immigration by 25 percent. We don't need to import over a million new workers a year.

    There's more. I think he hit all the key points without opening himself up to easy accusations of racism. The Fox All-Star Panel remains oblivious, of course. Too bad Santorum doesn't have a chance.

    Starts at the 4:00 mark:
    http://uneditedpolitics.com/rick-santorum-full-interview-on-fox-news-special-report-with-bret-baier-72015/

    Replies: @Former Darfur

    “There’s more. I think he hit all the key points without opening himself up to easy accusations of racism. The Fox All-Star Panel remains oblivious, of course. Too bad Santorum doesn’t have a chance.”

    He couldn’t even hold his Senate seat, he’s a poor politician. Obama is much worse, but the media and the powere that be are pro Obama and anti-Santorum, so he’s screwed.

  52. @24AheadDotCom
    This is where conservative issues fail the U.S. If they didn't have issues, they'd have gotten into debates with amnesty supporters and, after they'd said something like "Mexico isn't sending us her best" and gotten their heads handed to them (metaphorically speaking) would realize that saying things like that isn't productive and would either change what they say or sit down and be quiet.

    For those who want to actually do something and have a positive impact, learn how to say things in the right way. That doesn't mean being PC, it just means being smart and realizing the right way to go about things. If that's over your head, then just help out with what I do.

    The proof's in the pudding: we've been doing things the Teaparty/Trump/Idiocracy way for years and there are still millions of illegal aliens in the U.S., Obama's in effect legalized millions of them, and President Hillary will no doubt legalize as many millions as she wants to.

    If doing things the Teaparty/Trump/Idiocracy way worked, then that wouldn't be the current situation.

    Much less Trump, much more @MLP_Officiel, scro.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @MarkinLA

    You are under the delusion that these people are just ignorant and if you talk to them in the right way you will change their minds. Nothing is further from the truth. At their very core they are the people in that stupid MTV white privilege video. They have been trained to despise the white working class – even if they are white.

    I have done exactly what you have said at many times on left leaning web sites. Initially, I will be called a xenophobe and racist even though all I mentioned was the stagnant wages. Finally, somebody who thinks they know more than some right wing rube will actually talk to you. However, they aren’t listening. It is just one left wing talking point after another. They always answer your questions with another and never admit to being even a little wrong. Your sources are always racist and theirs (SPLC and ADL) are above reproach.

    Tell them that raising wages by limiting workers reduces income inequality and will eventually lead to jobs for engineers to automate the process and they cry that there is no way to guarantee that there will be automation or they insist nobody can make a machine to pick strawberries.

    It is even funnier when they start crying that the farmer’s crops are rotting in the field or the small businessman can’t find workers whose pay is so low they still need welfare. When you try and explain how that isn’t the sign of a healthy economy or that crops rot in the field all the time and these are staged photo-ops they just never respond or just tell you how stupid you are.

    They even spring that nonsense about Japan needing immigrants. When you point out Japan is doing well without them they start pulling crap out of their asses about Japan’s population in the year 2035 and 2060 if they don’t get immigrants. Somehow, they deduce by all of that the US needs immigrants to avoid being Japan II. When you finally get around to showing them that their point are irrelevant to the US they go back to calling you a racist and xenophobe.

    These people know what is going on. They just don’t want to hear it no matter how it is presented. It is just so much easier to ignore people who politely state their position and then shut up.

    • Replies: @Stan D Mute
    @MarkinLA


    These people know what is going on. They just don’t want to hear it no matter how it is presented. It is just so much easier to ignore people who politely state their position and then shut up.
     
    This is a great comment and Sailer should have gold boxed it. The truth is that being polite and demure is recipe for failure in 21st century America. The media is 100% vehemently opposed to our position and viscerally hates white men.

    Negroes are a perfect case study. Is their position in society the result of quietly and politely making logical arguments? Or is it the result of setting LA on fire? They are the linchpin of Marxist politics because they're the stormtroopers, not the cogent respectful debaters. And this is with full media support.

    For whites to have a remote chance at even having a say in our future, we need more Donald Trumps. Many many more. We need white men with pitchforks outside State Capital buildings demanding that their voices are heard. I know it's considered extremely bad form to advocate violence, but that's not what I'm doing here. What is needed is the threat of political violence. Politicians must fear the white man again. This doesn't mean we commit crimes, the fear can be instilled without crime. We just have to be angry, loud, visible, blunt, and armed (legally). Let their imaginations take it from there. The danger is that some idiots go from the implied threat to actual threats or actions - this loses us the high moral ground and more importantly opens the floodgates for the State to Waco us. The Bundy Ranch was a perfect example for us. We need to Bundy Ranch the entire Nation.
    , @Ozymandias
    @MarkinLA

    "When you point out Japan is doing well without them they start pulling crap out of their asses about Japan’s population in the year 2035 and 2060 if they don’t get immigrants."

    Can anyone explain to me how we went from an overpopulated world that was burning through its resources at an unsustainable rate directly to some kind of insane population race? I've even heard immigrants referred to as "capital," as if we need to get as many as possible before they're all scooped up. One would think they're going to stop making them or something.

    Replies: @MarkinLA

    , @24AheadDotCom
    @MarkinLA

    I've had plenty of comments deleted/obliterated from plenty of sites (for instance, a few I left on a Chiat post at NYMag were voted down out of existence) and I've been banned from several sites. However, when I had the chance to say my piece no one's ever bested me in an argument there. Part of that is because I have a very deep bench: I've already written out many times why the same talking points they always use are wrong.

    But, I only suggested doing such things as a training exercise for the real battle: taking on politicians/pundits/reporters. After getting enough experience showing ThinkProgress commenters wrong, you can move on to ThinkProgress bloggers. Those in such positions can't play the same games their commenters do, such as changing their names.

    Trump and those duped by him could definitely swarm @ANoorani, @AlexNowrasteh, @EliseFoley, @Cecilia44, etc. etc. but there's no way they could show them wrong to their supporters. I *can*. But, those in Trump's sphere have mental problems that prevent them from helping or even just swiping my arguments.

  53. @Anonymous
    Western civilization almost one century ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=684n8FO68LU

    Now, here's present-day civilization in a land from where we (and especially Europe) are getting a lot of our new immigrants/refugees: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AZJPdbtn2KM

    Even if you're a well-informed HBD realist, seeing this can be shocking and leave you in despair. How one generation could throw away a millennia of advancing civilization so easily?

    Replies: @Stan D Mute

    Even if you’re a well-informed HBD realist, seeing this can be shocking and leave you in despair. How one generation could throw away a millennia of advancing civilization so easily?

    What strikes me is the massive evil of taking these people from their tribal homes and forcing them to try to live in Western Civilization. The results of that experiment have been the greatest social disaster in history for both the Africans and the Europeans. When you watch the African in his native habitat and culture, so much of what you see in the American ghettoes begins to make sense. It is every bit as cruel and perverse as it would be to force Europeans to live in African villages and abide their customs. The only possible result is destruction.

  54. @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Bliss

    You sound like another victim of Howard Zinn. I've noticed in my teaching that those raised in the late 1970's and alter have really absurd ideas about American history that apparently derive from teachers who were raised on "revisionist" history. (Recently I had an entire seminar of graduate students insist that Abraham Lincoln had been a slave owner!) The early European settlers of the Americas were pretty much all middle and upper class. No one else could afford the voyage. Later there were indentured servants but only the hardiest of these "white slaves" survived and reproduced. In the 19th century, European immigrants filled a desperate need for labor. There was under-employment in this country then, not high levels of unemployment as now.

    I'd love a citation for your absurd assertion thatr Gypsies accounted for any significant amount of immigration to the Americas. That's laughable. Even now they constitute a vanishingly small proportion of the total population. (Thank our lucky stars for that.)

    Replies: @IBC, @Bliss

    I’d love a citation for your absurd assertion thatr Gypsies accounted for any significant amount of immigration to the Americas. That’s laughable.

    For someone who claims to be a teacher it is your ignorance that is laughable (and inexcusable). You are clearly ignorant of the fact that it was Spain and Portugal that provided the first settlers in the Americas and that these countries had significant numbers of gypsies and that these gypsies constituted its outcaste population and that it was disproportionately the losers of Iberia who first settled the Americas. Many if not most of the mestizos, mulattoes and tri-racials of latin america have morisco, marrano and gypsy ancestry. You can see the berber, arab, jew and gypsy in their phenotypes…

    Btw, at least two of the Presidents of Brazil had gypsy ancestry:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Lu%C3%ADs

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juscelino_Kubitschek

  55. @Sunbeam
    @Bliss

    "Likewise, it wasn’t the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it’s crop. Etcetera…

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK."

    That's certainly an interesting theory, and I've heard it proposed before. Intuitively you would think there is something to it.

    But has anyone ever studied the effect? I mean this is something that would violate the PC sensitivities of just about everyone, and I'm not talking about just the usual suspects here.

    So is there any kind of IQ study of white Australians whose ancestors were "POME" strictly, compared to the average denizen of Hertford-West-Angle-Bumbleshire, whose ancestors have been living around the village green for nigh on forever?

    Replies: @Stan D Mute

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.”

    This is classic SJW propagandist conflation. The early American and Australian settlers came to undeveloped territory where they had two options: (1) work very hard (and intelligently) to scrape survival from the land or (2) die. Conflating this with the current immigrant is nonsense. The current immigrant bears zero risk of hunger or death (unless shot during commission of a crime). He has no need to work – the State will provide him a luxurious air conditioned home, food, transportation, and medical care. To the extent he may decide to work, his income is supplemented by State welfare gifts along with what he may steal (by avoiding taxation).

    This is such obvious common sense that when you hear someone conflating immigrants prior to the 1920’s to current immigrants its an immediate red flag that the speaker is an anti-white (or anti Western Civilization) fanatic.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Stan D Mute


    …what he may steal (by avoiding taxation).
     
    Their avoidance of income taxation is perfectly legal. They don't earn enough to qualify!
  56. @MarkinLA
    @24AheadDotCom

    You are under the delusion that these people are just ignorant and if you talk to them in the right way you will change their minds. Nothing is further from the truth. At their very core they are the people in that stupid MTV white privilege video. They have been trained to despise the white working class - even if they are white.

    I have done exactly what you have said at many times on left leaning web sites. Initially, I will be called a xenophobe and racist even though all I mentioned was the stagnant wages. Finally, somebody who thinks they know more than some right wing rube will actually talk to you. However, they aren't listening. It is just one left wing talking point after another. They always answer your questions with another and never admit to being even a little wrong. Your sources are always racist and theirs (SPLC and ADL) are above reproach.

    Tell them that raising wages by limiting workers reduces income inequality and will eventually lead to jobs for engineers to automate the process and they cry that there is no way to guarantee that there will be automation or they insist nobody can make a machine to pick strawberries.

    It is even funnier when they start crying that the farmer's crops are rotting in the field or the small businessman can't find workers whose pay is so low they still need welfare. When you try and explain how that isn't the sign of a healthy economy or that crops rot in the field all the time and these are staged photo-ops they just never respond or just tell you how stupid you are.

    They even spring that nonsense about Japan needing immigrants. When you point out Japan is doing well without them they start pulling crap out of their asses about Japan's population in the year 2035 and 2060 if they don't get immigrants. Somehow, they deduce by all of that the US needs immigrants to avoid being Japan II. When you finally get around to showing them that their point are irrelevant to the US they go back to calling you a racist and xenophobe.

    These people know what is going on. They just don't want to hear it no matter how it is presented. It is just so much easier to ignore people who politely state their position and then shut up.

    Replies: @Stan D Mute, @Ozymandias, @24AheadDotCom

    These people know what is going on. They just don’t want to hear it no matter how it is presented. It is just so much easier to ignore people who politely state their position and then shut up.

    This is a great comment and Sailer should have gold boxed it. The truth is that being polite and demure is recipe for failure in 21st century America. The media is 100% vehemently opposed to our position and viscerally hates white men.

    Negroes are a perfect case study. Is their position in society the result of quietly and politely making logical arguments? Or is it the result of setting LA on fire? They are the linchpin of Marxist politics because they’re the stormtroopers, not the cogent respectful debaters. And this is with full media support.

    For whites to have a remote chance at even having a say in our future, we need more Donald Trumps. Many many more. We need white men with pitchforks outside State Capital buildings demanding that their voices are heard. I know it’s considered extremely bad form to advocate violence, but that’s not what I’m doing here. What is needed is the threat of political violence. Politicians must fear the white man again. This doesn’t mean we commit crimes, the fear can be instilled without crime. We just have to be angry, loud, visible, blunt, and armed (legally). Let their imaginations take it from there. The danger is that some idiots go from the implied threat to actual threats or actions – this loses us the high moral ground and more importantly opens the floodgates for the State to Waco us. The Bundy Ranch was a perfect example for us. We need to Bundy Ranch the entire Nation.

  57. @MarkinLA
    @24AheadDotCom

    You are under the delusion that these people are just ignorant and if you talk to them in the right way you will change their minds. Nothing is further from the truth. At their very core they are the people in that stupid MTV white privilege video. They have been trained to despise the white working class - even if they are white.

    I have done exactly what you have said at many times on left leaning web sites. Initially, I will be called a xenophobe and racist even though all I mentioned was the stagnant wages. Finally, somebody who thinks they know more than some right wing rube will actually talk to you. However, they aren't listening. It is just one left wing talking point after another. They always answer your questions with another and never admit to being even a little wrong. Your sources are always racist and theirs (SPLC and ADL) are above reproach.

    Tell them that raising wages by limiting workers reduces income inequality and will eventually lead to jobs for engineers to automate the process and they cry that there is no way to guarantee that there will be automation or they insist nobody can make a machine to pick strawberries.

    It is even funnier when they start crying that the farmer's crops are rotting in the field or the small businessman can't find workers whose pay is so low they still need welfare. When you try and explain how that isn't the sign of a healthy economy or that crops rot in the field all the time and these are staged photo-ops they just never respond or just tell you how stupid you are.

    They even spring that nonsense about Japan needing immigrants. When you point out Japan is doing well without them they start pulling crap out of their asses about Japan's population in the year 2035 and 2060 if they don't get immigrants. Somehow, they deduce by all of that the US needs immigrants to avoid being Japan II. When you finally get around to showing them that their point are irrelevant to the US they go back to calling you a racist and xenophobe.

    These people know what is going on. They just don't want to hear it no matter how it is presented. It is just so much easier to ignore people who politely state their position and then shut up.

    Replies: @Stan D Mute, @Ozymandias, @24AheadDotCom

    “When you point out Japan is doing well without them they start pulling crap out of their asses about Japan’s population in the year 2035 and 2060 if they don’t get immigrants.”

    Can anyone explain to me how we went from an overpopulated world that was burning through its resources at an unsustainable rate directly to some kind of insane population race? I’ve even heard immigrants referred to as “capital,” as if we need to get as many as possible before they’re all scooped up. One would think they’re going to stop making them or something.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    @Ozymandias

    This is the great thing about "logical" arguments. Given enough restrictions you can make any assertion seem logical. This is what most people don't understand about social science and why it is just politically motivated drivel and the farthest thing from science.

    In things like market research where very important questions like what style of women's shoes will be popular this fall are discussed social science techniques can be useful. For making public policy it is just a tool to get policies in place favored by one constituency at the expense of everybody else.

  58. @MarkinLA
    @24AheadDotCom

    You are under the delusion that these people are just ignorant and if you talk to them in the right way you will change their minds. Nothing is further from the truth. At their very core they are the people in that stupid MTV white privilege video. They have been trained to despise the white working class - even if they are white.

    I have done exactly what you have said at many times on left leaning web sites. Initially, I will be called a xenophobe and racist even though all I mentioned was the stagnant wages. Finally, somebody who thinks they know more than some right wing rube will actually talk to you. However, they aren't listening. It is just one left wing talking point after another. They always answer your questions with another and never admit to being even a little wrong. Your sources are always racist and theirs (SPLC and ADL) are above reproach.

    Tell them that raising wages by limiting workers reduces income inequality and will eventually lead to jobs for engineers to automate the process and they cry that there is no way to guarantee that there will be automation or they insist nobody can make a machine to pick strawberries.

    It is even funnier when they start crying that the farmer's crops are rotting in the field or the small businessman can't find workers whose pay is so low they still need welfare. When you try and explain how that isn't the sign of a healthy economy or that crops rot in the field all the time and these are staged photo-ops they just never respond or just tell you how stupid you are.

    They even spring that nonsense about Japan needing immigrants. When you point out Japan is doing well without them they start pulling crap out of their asses about Japan's population in the year 2035 and 2060 if they don't get immigrants. Somehow, they deduce by all of that the US needs immigrants to avoid being Japan II. When you finally get around to showing them that their point are irrelevant to the US they go back to calling you a racist and xenophobe.

    These people know what is going on. They just don't want to hear it no matter how it is presented. It is just so much easier to ignore people who politely state their position and then shut up.

    Replies: @Stan D Mute, @Ozymandias, @24AheadDotCom

    I’ve had plenty of comments deleted/obliterated from plenty of sites (for instance, a few I left on a Chiat post at NYMag were voted down out of existence) and I’ve been banned from several sites. However, when I had the chance to say my piece no one’s ever bested me in an argument there. Part of that is because I have a very deep bench: I’ve already written out many times why the same talking points they always use are wrong.

    But, I only suggested doing such things as a training exercise for the real battle: taking on politicians/pundits/reporters. After getting enough experience showing ThinkProgress commenters wrong, you can move on to ThinkProgress bloggers. Those in such positions can’t play the same games their commenters do, such as changing their names.

    Trump and those duped by him could definitely swarm @ANoorani, @AlexNowrasteh, @EliseFoley, @Cecilia44, etc. etc. but there’s no way they could show them wrong to their supporters. I *can*. But, those in Trump’s sphere have mental problems that prevent them from helping or even just swiping my arguments.

  59. @Former Darfur
    @flyingtiger

    Mexico is the land of opportunity....compared to what and for whom?

    As compared to the United States, not many. As compared to Haiti or Zimbabwe, it would be, if indeed any situation were an opportunity to the average Haitian or Zimbabwean. Most of them are just not capable of making it anywhere.

    At one time, there were non-Spanish Whites, Middle Easterners and others who found in Mexico an opportunity, but it would be slim pickings today for most even if they could legally go there to work. That goes double for Americans, who are not really wanted in Mexico except as rich dumb tourists.

    For most nonwealthy people, the United States is still the place where one has the best chance of "success" in the entrepreneurial sense. However, I will say that French truck drivers and German autoworkers and European aircraft mechanics generally probably live a more secure and comfortable life than their American counterparts. Being a factory worker in western Europe means you don't worry about healthcare, college for your kids, or about getting fired unless you commit some enormously grave offense. You have a smaller house and if you have a car it's a little schumerbox, and if you need to be De Gaullebladdered in France plan on several months on the waiting list. If you need a MRI anywhere in Europe it's a big deal.

    Most of us are not entrepreneurs, and since only a small number of us can be successful entrepreneurs by definition, the hassle of trying to do a startup in Europe isn't why we wouldn't like living there. The lack of living space is.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Being a factory worker in western Europe means you don’t worry about healthcare, college for your kids…

    If they can get in, that is. There are far fewer seats per capita in Europe. How do admissions to Heidelberg or Sorbonne compare with Ivies?

    …or about getting fired unless you commit some enormously grave offense.

    Shouldn’t that read “even if”, at least in France?

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    The Sorbonne, so I am told, is not so elite any more, as i think Mr. Sailer discussed some time ago. The real elites of France are trained at smaller schools with much more restrictive admissions.

    I think in Germany or France or most anywhere in Europe, if you really are college material-meaning at least 125 IQ and developed, proven study habits-going to college isn't especially difficult, and indeed the financial part isn't needed. Who don't get into college are those better suited to a vo-tech program, and those are much better, at least in Germany, than are ours.

    We have a man where I work who is the son of an (formerly East) German mother and an expatriate American father. He turned 18 just as the Berlin Wall came down and was accepted into an apprenticeship at Mercedes Benz. He got the classical machinist's education, meaning he had to learn to file a square hole into steel plate and a cubic section rod to fit perfectly through the center. He learned to run all the standard machine tools and to do layout involving trigonometry and to transfer it to steel to .01 mm. There is no place a kid can go in the United States for that kind of training anymore, hasn't been in much of a century. We are completely a CNC shop at this point, but he learned to do everything we do in a few months by reading the manuals. The thing people here have not figured out, though, is that he is not any kind of genius-try as he might, the rules of baseball mystify him, and even though he was around the English language for as long as he was around German he still makes the stereotypical mistakes in grammar and punctuation in writing English. "The japanese Collets are not easy for headstock outpulling" was a recent note he left. He's of average or slightly above IQ, but he was thoroughly trained in precision metalworking. Most of the people we hire are smart enough to have picked up the trade by bits and pieces but are trained either on the job or in Mickey Mouse for-profit vo techs that thrive on VA and state unemployment-retraining or minority advancement program money.

    This guy in America would have got a liberal arts or general business degree in a four year institution and a huge debt load. And he would have no real skill set. He might have got an engineering technology degree or possibly a ME from a more marginal school, but he'd be over his head wherever he went. In this, the German system was far more prescient and efficient.

  60. @Stan D Mute
    @Sunbeam


    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.”
     
    This is classic SJW propagandist conflation. The early American and Australian settlers came to undeveloped territory where they had two options: (1) work very hard (and intelligently) to scrape survival from the land or (2) die. Conflating this with the current immigrant is nonsense. The current immigrant bears zero risk of hunger or death (unless shot during commission of a crime). He has no need to work - the State will provide him a luxurious air conditioned home, food, transportation, and medical care. To the extent he may decide to work, his income is supplemented by State welfare gifts along with what he may steal (by avoiding taxation).

    This is such obvious common sense that when you hear someone conflating immigrants prior to the 1920's to current immigrants its an immediate red flag that the speaker is an anti-white (or anti Western Civilization) fanatic.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    …what he may steal (by avoiding taxation).

    Their avoidance of income taxation is perfectly legal. They don’t earn enough to qualify!

  61. @Jefferson
    "In The New Yorker, Jeffrey Toobin inadvertently validates Donald Trump’s point that Mexico isn’t sending America its creme de la creme of Mexicans:"

    If Mexico was sending it's creme de la creme to The United States, you would be seeing affluent Mexican neighborhoods popping up all over the Los Angeles metropolitan area, but you don't. Mexican neighborhoods in the Los Angeles metropolitan area are all lower working class.

    It seems that Iran though tend to send it's creme de creme to The United States, because Persians are over represented among Los Angeles affluent class. Same for China and India. Lot of Chinese nationals are buying up big beautiful expensive homes in affluent neighborhoods in Southern and Northern California. The same can not be said for Mexican nationals.

    Replies: @Maj. Kong, @Bliss, @Socially Extinct

    If China or India bordered the Western U.S., I don’t think the quality of Asian immigrant would look quite like it does now. Geographic access is a spigot for human refuse.

    Conversely, geographic inaccessibility is also a refinery of human immigration.

  62. @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Maj. Kong

    Like so many Americans you have a very distorted picture of Iran. Persia has a long and cosmopolitan history and had a very cosmopolitan culture. There were many ethnic minorities before the Ayatollahs took charge. LA's current population of immigrants from Persia includes many Iranian-Armenians. I'd bet there are also quite a few other Iranian-Christian ethnic minorities. Probably some Zoroastrians. And I'd be surprised if a few Baha'ists didn't get over here in time to escape the Ayattolahs' persecution of that faith, which Mohammedans regard as a heresy.

    Replies: @dcite

    There are many Bahai’s among them, who can come from Muslim, Jewish, or Zoroastrian ancestry. Since the religion prescribes equal education and opportunities for both genders, they were considered dangerously progressive in Iran.

  63. @Bliss
    @Jefferson


    If Mexico was sending it’s creme de la creme to The United States
     
    Don't tell us your sicilian ancestors who immigrated to America a century ago were the creme de la creme of Italy. Unless you want to make us laugh...

    Likewise, it wasn't the Norman aristocracy of England who tended to emigrate to the New World but the anglo-saxon underclass. And the germans and scandinavians who were freely given the fertile lands of of the midwest to farm were landless peasants of their motherland not the cream of it's crop. Etcetera...

    The American Continent was largely settled by the dregs of Europe (including gypsies, btw). Ditto for Australia, which also served as a dumping ground for criminals from the UK.

    Replies: @Lot, @map, @syonredux, @Sunbeam, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Bugg, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @iSteveFan, @dcite

    I can trace one of my lines back to 1635, Connecticut
    and they had been landholders in Ringstead. Actually most of the known settlers in New England, the part I know most about, were known for being educated for the time, and independent. For the time, they were fairly well off. That’s why universal education was adopted so naturally in New England, most of the mid-Atlantic, and the heavily Scottish North Carolina. There were indentured servants, but they did not form a majority in most of the country. I’m not sure they were even “dregs” considering the kinds of offences that could cause that situation.

    In any case, that accusation only proves a point. Even the “dregs” of Europe, apparently, are capable of developing a civilization, which, warts & all, excited the admiration of the world until that secret-society playground called Washington D.C. got completely taken over by psychopaths who wanted to rule the world.

  64. @Ozymandias
    @MarkinLA

    "When you point out Japan is doing well without them they start pulling crap out of their asses about Japan’s population in the year 2035 and 2060 if they don’t get immigrants."

    Can anyone explain to me how we went from an overpopulated world that was burning through its resources at an unsustainable rate directly to some kind of insane population race? I've even heard immigrants referred to as "capital," as if we need to get as many as possible before they're all scooped up. One would think they're going to stop making them or something.

    Replies: @MarkinLA

    This is the great thing about “logical” arguments. Given enough restrictions you can make any assertion seem logical. This is what most people don’t understand about social science and why it is just politically motivated drivel and the farthest thing from science.

    In things like market research where very important questions like what style of women’s shoes will be popular this fall are discussed social science techniques can be useful. For making public policy it is just a tool to get policies in place favored by one constituency at the expense of everybody else.

  65. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    @Former Darfur


    Being a factory worker in western Europe means you don’t worry about healthcare, college for your kids…
     
    If they can get in, that is. There are far fewer seats per capita in Europe. How do admissions to Heidelberg or Sorbonne compare with Ivies?

    …or about getting fired unless you commit some enormously grave offense.
     
    Shouldn't that read "even if", at least in France?

    Replies: @anonymous

    The Sorbonne, so I am told, is not so elite any more, as i think Mr. Sailer discussed some time ago. The real elites of France are trained at smaller schools with much more restrictive admissions.

    I think in Germany or France or most anywhere in Europe, if you really are college material-meaning at least 125 IQ and developed, proven study habits-going to college isn’t especially difficult, and indeed the financial part isn’t needed. Who don’t get into college are those better suited to a vo-tech program, and those are much better, at least in Germany, than are ours.

    We have a man where I work who is the son of an (formerly East) German mother and an expatriate American father. He turned 18 just as the Berlin Wall came down and was accepted into an apprenticeship at Mercedes Benz. He got the classical machinist’s education, meaning he had to learn to file a square hole into steel plate and a cubic section rod to fit perfectly through the center. He learned to run all the standard machine tools and to do layout involving trigonometry and to transfer it to steel to .01 mm. There is no place a kid can go in the United States for that kind of training anymore, hasn’t been in much of a century. We are completely a CNC shop at this point, but he learned to do everything we do in a few months by reading the manuals. The thing people here have not figured out, though, is that he is not any kind of genius-try as he might, the rules of baseball mystify him, and even though he was around the English language for as long as he was around German he still makes the stereotypical mistakes in grammar and punctuation in writing English. “The japanese Collets are not easy for headstock outpulling” was a recent note he left. He’s of average or slightly above IQ, but he was thoroughly trained in precision metalworking. Most of the people we hire are smart enough to have picked up the trade by bits and pieces but are trained either on the job or in Mickey Mouse for-profit vo techs that thrive on VA and state unemployment-retraining or minority advancement program money.

    This guy in America would have got a liberal arts or general business degree in a four year institution and a huge debt load. And he would have no real skill set. He might have got an engineering technology degree or possibly a ME from a more marginal school, but he’d be over his head wherever he went. In this, the German system was far more prescient and efficient.

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