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Nevada Governor Bans Chloroquine
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From USN&WR:

… In other Nevada coronavirus news:

— [Nevada Governor Steve] Sisolak signed an emergency order earlier Tuesday barring the use of anti-malaria drugs for someone who has the coronavirus. The order restricting chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine came after President Donald Trump touted the medication as a treatment and falsely stated that the Food and Drug Administration had just approved the use of chloroquine to treat patients infected with coronavirus. Sisolak said in a statement that there’s no consensus among experts or Nevada doctors that the drugs can treat people with COVID-19.

Well, it would be a good idea to find out if these two time-honored anti-malaria drugs work against this novel coronavirus. And one way to find out is to let doctors prescribe them off-label to people less susceptible to their side effects and SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

Do not, however, ingest aquarium cleaning chemicals on your own say-so.

 
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  1. vhrm says:

    Once the “emergency orders” start flowing nothing is to small to regulate.

    How long was Mubarak’s “state of emergency” in Egypt? 20 years? 30?

  2. I am enjoying the humidity that fish also seem to like. Now that our weather hits mid 80s in the afternoon, I can turn on all the faucets in my house and create a near sauna. Helps my breathing immensely during episodes of sinusitis and hasn’t killed me thus far.

  3. Accidental poisonings kill 64,975 people a year in America.

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/accidental-injury.htm

    Here are the CDC numbers for all deaths per year, which is 2,813,503 in the US.

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

    Perspective

    • Thanks: Anonymousse
    • Replies: @vhrm
    , @Known Fact
  4. JimDandy says:

    Much better to let someone die than to put them at any risk of harm.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • LOL: ben tillman
  5. Hopefully a few Nevadans will be left alive to vote him out in 2 years.

    • Agree: Realist
  6. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    This seems like a dumb move on his part. It’s already being used here and elsewhere. Here’s a tweet from a hospitalist at Holy Name Hospital in Teaneck, NJ sharing their protocol for treating non-ICU COVID-19 patients.

    • Thanks: res
    • Replies: @res
  7. BenKenobi says:

    Perhaps the President should take some inspiration from Costanza and start declaring the opposite of what he would like then there would be mad dash by progressives to do the opposite of THAT.

    For example:

    Trump: “I’ve decided that a wall on the southern border would hurt White Americans.”

  8. vhrm says:
    @RichardTaylor

    Perspective

    Unneeded and unwelcome, sir.
    Everybody knows that 400 to 450m Americans will die of Coronavirus by Memorial Day. It’s already been decided and it’s in all the papers.

    It would be a major faux pas to die of something else this season. My word…

    • LOL: RichardTaylor
  9. res says:

    Some more of the story.
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/mar/24/steve-sisolak-nevada-governor-bans-malaria-drugs-c/

    His order also limits a prescription to a 30-day supply to ensure it’s available for “legitimate medical purposes” and so that people cannot find a way to stockpile the drug.

    This actually seems somewhat reasonable. It is important to make sure enough is available for people who are currently taking it.

    But banning it for COVID-19 use hardly seems like the best way to accomplish that.

    The governor’s rule comes a day after a Phoenix-area man died and his wife was in critical condition from taking an additive used to clean fish tanks known as chloroquine phosphate, similar to the drug used to treat malaria.

    LOL! Now there’s a good reason to ban pharmaceutical chloroquine for COVID-19. Seems to me banning the pharmaceutical kind would only make it more likely idiots will try fish tank cleaner instead.

    • Replies: @Aardvark
  10. res says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    This tweet from later in that thread was also interesting.

  11. anon[308] • Disclaimer says:

    there’s no consensus among experts or Nevada doctors that the drugs can treat people with COVID-19.

    Fuck the Nevada doctors and the “experts”. This is descending into anti-Trump politics.
    If I was really sick with the chinkenpox, I’d want the malaria drugs.

  12. anonymous[755] • Disclaimer says:

    Doctors who know the drug, KNOW what the drug does. It’s an old timey drug that’s been around since the ’50’s. They know that different people react differently when taken, and people with heart problems are about out of the question, because the dose they’ve been using to defeat the virus makes the subject’s heart race like a cracked-out bunny. It also has the propensity to damage the heart during the process, whether your heart is healthy or not.

    The guy who thanked Trump for allowing it to be used on him commented that his heart raced like he was running sprints. They can test all they want, it’ll always be dicey. That’s why people are telling Trump to cool his jets a little, and don’t tout it as “the cure.” It may “cure” a 20-something year old man, and leave him with the heart function of a 50-year old. Or it could kill him.

    It may be a cure, but the current process is a shitshow, and there’s no getting around it.

  13. Shouldn’t Sailer have at least looked at the approved uses and the need for them before implying that the governor is nuts? I’ve heard that so many corona people are using it (on a hunch) that other patients using it (in a manner whose efficacy may be presumed to have been proved) can’t get it. So Nevada’s ban may have been reasonable.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  14. Help me understand.

    Instead of this multi-trillion dollar shut down, what if we had spent two trillion dollars to develop a great artificial heart that was easy to install and gave people back full functionality and added decades to their lives?

    We are talking 600,000 deaths per year from heart disease. Isn’t that a better investment than trillions on a virus that might kill a few tens of thousands – once. Saving millions of lives would be way better, right?

    I don’t get the no-cost-too-great, hyper-focus on this one cause of death.

  15. mike99588 says:

    Hopefully the casino owners will ease him out when they realize that this TDS idiot is going to keep business closed, customers away, or customers broke.

    A golden parachute or no parachute.

  16. @vhrm

    According to some, we’re still in a state of emergency that started in 1933.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  17. @RichardTaylor

    Most heart disease victims are fat and/or smokers. Whereas people have convinced themselves that PERFECTLY HEALTHY(tm) old people get it.
    Like a lot of ones in politics and the media. They look good for oldsters, but they’re popping pharmaceuticals like candy.

  18. @Redneck farmer

    According to some, we’re still in a state of emergency that started in 1933.

    FDR made sure to outlaw gold before liquor was permitted again. So Prohibition really lasted until Nixon’s era.

    • Replies: @Sean
  19. Lot says:

    Quinine is in tonic water, but you need 53 liters to get the right daily dose for malaria.

    That would give you deadly water intoxication, and diabetes from about 15,000 daily calories of sugar.

    Some drugs are effective at a tiny percentage of their normal dose however. I don’t know if this applies to antiviral drugs. One drug I know of is about 92% as effective at 1/10 the normal dose.

    All that said: switching from diet coke to sugar free diet tonic water if you’re a NYC resident? Couldn’t hurt!

  20. Do not, however, ingest aquarium cleaning chemicals on your own say-so.

    There is a similar caution with diatomaceous earth. If you have bugs in the house or garden, make sure to get the food grade (which you can feed to your kids, caprine or hominid) rather than the pool-cleaning variety.

    Freshwater-derived food grade diatomaceous earth is the type used in United States agriculture for grain storage, as feed supplement, and as an insecticide. It is produced uncalcinated, has a very fine particle size, and is very low in crystal silica (<2%).

    Salt-water-derived pool / beer / wine filter grade is not suitable for human consumption or effective as an insecticide. Usually calcinated before being sold to remove impurities and undesirable volatile contents, it is composed of larger particles than the freshwater version and has a high crystalline silica content (>60%).

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth#Specific_varieties

  21. @vhrm

    Steve thinks it’s s bad idea for this governor to ban hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine for treatment of coronavirus.* This is what happens when we allow governors arbitrary powers to ban things. My governor can shut down businesses and order me to stay home. Nevada’s governor can ban useful drugs.

    *Of course, it’s a terrible idea.

    • Agree: Muggles
  22. Smooth move by Sisolak. You can’t allow any attempt at a cure that might ruin a perfectly good crisis, y’know.

  23. Realist says:

    Well, it would be a good idea to find out if these two time-honored anti-malaria drugs work against this novel coronavirus. And one way to find out is to let doctors prescribe them off-label to people less susceptible to their side effects and SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

    Exactly.

  24. Cortes says:
    @JimDandy

    I’d buy a tee shirt with that on it.

    Excellent!

  25. @Lot

    I bought a liter of tonic water back in mid-February for my daughter for fun as the virus thing was ramping up. But this was for entertainment. I explained that there’s so little quinine in tonic water any more that you’d have to drink the stuff from a fire hose. And even then, is it going to have the anti-viral properties of chloroquine?

    Of course, if you like it … it’s tonic water and staying hydrated is always goodness.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    , @Jim Don Bob
  26. @JimDandy

    Type I vs. Type II error.

    Classic example, right there!

  27. @JimDandy

    Type I vs. Type II error.

    Classic example, right there!

  28. Sisolak signed an emergency order earlier Tuesday barring the use of anti-malaria drugs for someone who has the coronavirus. The order restricting chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine came after President Donald Trump touted the medication as a treatment and falsely stated that the Food and Drug Administration had just approved the use of chloroquine to treat patients infected with coronavirus. Sisolak said in a statement that there’s no consensus among experts or Nevada doctors that the drugs can treat people with COVID-19.

    Could there be more a better distilled version of the Democrats, feminized, bureaucratized, nanny-state mentality.

    The “experts” haven’t said that’s good for you yet, so don’t you dare try it. Thank goodness white men down through the ages have done a whole lot of “let’s try stuff and figure out what works”.

    I’ve spend my life watching this rising tide of tedious “experts” endlessly prattling … basically with the message that whatever you stupid flyover country gentiles think about anything–sex, sex roles, marriage, raising kids, family, religion, drugs, work ethic, race, schooling, crime and punishment, cars, houses, neighborhoods, industry, immigration … having a nation–is wrong, wrong, wrong and you need to stop thinking it and do things our way.

    And … without fail … the experts have been wrong, their policies are absolute disaster for individuals, for families, for white people, for Americans, for the West… and the stupid flyover country gentiles’ traditional common sense notions are actually what allow them to create pleasant and prosperous civilization.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    , @Paleo Liberal
  29. Anonymous[621] • Disclaimer says:

    Who will be the reality based Democrat first to ban tonic water for non-FEMA/U.N. peacekeeping use? On behalf of God’s vulnerable chilluns of course. I hear the Fever Tree stuff at Trader Joe’s is pretty good, yet awfully medical-sounding. It must be conserved to stop Trump, uhhhhh I mean pneumonia holocaust

  30. I do feel bad for the people who need this medicine for arthritis, Lupus, etc. and are having trouble getting it.

    A friend with an autoimmune disorder was running low on the stuff. Within hours of Trump’s new conference she got a 90 supply. Let others fight over it. She has medicine she absolutely needs through the end of June.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  31. I’ve upped my intake of gin and tonics. Just for the quinine, or course.

  32. Mr. Anon says:
    @AnotherDad

    I bought a couple liters too. As Lot pointed out, the amount of quinine in tonic water is pretty low (it used to be greater). Even still, it still makes my heart race.

  33. Anon[659] • Disclaimer says:

    What’s really funny is that fish tank cleaner, which caused the problem in the first place, is still legal for sale in Nevada. Yet chloroquine, which isn’t what caused the problem and which saves human lives, is not.

    Choosing to be a Democrat means you’re stupid and irrational.

  34. Mr. Anon says:
    @AnotherDad

    It was experts at the USDA and DHHS who pushed the Food Pyramid and the message “grains good, fats bad”, which led to a vast increase in obesity and diabetes.

  35. Toddy Cat says:

    I have no idea whether chloroquine will work or not, but this seems to be much more about “Orange Man Bad!” than it does about anything medical. Lots of lefties seem to be terrified that it might just work, and Trump will end up being a hero. The first “clinical trial” conducted of chloroquine that showed marginal results was laughably badly designed and underpowered, and at odds with what many other countries have found. I don’t know if this was intentional or not…

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  36. @AnotherDad

    Of course, if you like it … it’s tonic water and staying hydrated is always goodness.

    It’s good if you add a coupla ounces of vodka and a slice of lime.

  37. Aardvark says:
    @res

    Wow, the tragedy of one dumb ass wrecks it for everyone else.
    Liberals have refused to understand that you cannot guarantee someone a risk free life by restricting everything and shifting the responsibility for bad actions to someone other party.

  38. Sparkon says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Chloroquinine is prescribed for rheumatoid arthritis (RA) and not for common osteoarthritis (OA).

    The main difference between osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis is the cause behind the joint symptoms. Osteoarthritis is caused by mechanical wear and tear on joints. Rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune disease in which the body’s own immune system attacks the body’s joints.

    RA is somewhat similar to the so-called cytokine storm some researchers think was responsible for the high rates of mortality among the relatively young during the 1918 Influenza pandemic.

    A cytokine storm is an overproduction of immune cells and their activating compounds (cytokines), which, in a flu infection, is often associated with a surge of activated immune cells into the lungs.

    • Thanks: Paleo Liberal
    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    , @Mr McKenna
  39. Muggles says:

    This Gov. Sisolak appears to have a serious mental disease. Hitler complex.

    Sitting in the Governor Bunker in Carson City decreeing that state physicians “must not” try to cure their patients with medicines which are time tested, legal and shown to cure many conditions, including COVID-19.

    Why Ms. Hitler did this remains a mystery. She has zero medical training and other Nevada government bureaucracies, not to mention the feds, have jurisdiction over medical uses for drugs.

    Sure, some low IQ folks might take fish tank cleaner, because they can’t or don’t think or read labels. But that can happen with anything. I doubt that Gov. Hitler has any real legal power to enforce her decree. Like the real Hitler, she sits around and moves things with a stick on a big map of Nevada.

    “Now, damn it, those fish tank cleaning tablet deaths will NOT happen in my state! Where are my Panzer divisions?”

  40. How brave are the people of Nevada to volunteer as the control.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  41. Corvinus says:
    @Tono Bungay

    Great NOTICING. Of course, we will not get straight answers from the expert pattern recognizer about his thoughts on why Trump falsely stated that the FDA approved of its use.

    Do not get me wrong, I am all in favor of scientists and physicians employing this treatment, but there have to be safeguards in place like testing. Again, hydrochloroquine is promising, but with caveats.

    https://www.wired.com/story/an-old-malaria-drug-may-fight-covid-19-and-silicon-valleys-into-it

    The chloroquine document Todaro and Rigano wrote spread almost—sorry about this—virally. But even though some people are hyping this is a treatment, it still has not yet undergone a large-scale randomized control trial, the gold standard for evaluating whether a medical intervention like a drug actually works. Until that happens, most physicians and researchers would say that chloroquine can’t be any kind of magic bullet. “Many drugs, including chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine, work in cells in the lab against coronaviruses. Few drugs have been shown to work in an animal model,” says Matthew Frieman, a microbiologist who studies therapeutics against coronaviruses at the University of Maryland. What happens if you put the drugs into animals? No one knows yet. Probably nothing bad, because they’ve been used for decades. But maybe they don’t actually help a person fight off the virus.

    Then again, why in the world should we trust the CDC since they are operators of the Deep State? Why should we listen to snake oil salesmen like medical professionals when they are corrupt? We have President Trump at the helm! I mean, he publicly put a specific deadline on the table for the economy to reopen (despite fierce opposition from medical experts). But why has he yet to put forth a particular date in regards to the production of tests, PPE, and ventilators?

    Furthermore, for those states rights activists on this fine blog, here is something to ponder.

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/can-federal-government-override-state-government-rules-social-distancing-promote-economy

  42. Sean says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Traditional Germans had a beer after church on Sunday, which scandalised many in the US, still a very religious society. Germans Americans were renowned as hand craft brewers of beer and owners of hostelries (The Drumps’s). Prohibition owed a lot to anti German feeling. And that was because of the Spanish flu, which was widely thought to have been a deliberate biowarfare attack and obviously yet another dirty Hun trick.

    https://www.history.com/news/spanish-flu-deaths-october-1918

    Some saw an enemy hand at work. Rumors spread that the Kaiser’s U-boats had released poison clouds in American ports and that German pharmaceutical company Bayer had tainted its aspirin tablets. […] Few cities were struck harder than Philadelphia where Public Health Director Wilmer Krusen ignored pleas from doctors and refused to cancel a parade to promote the sale of government war bonds that was attended by 200,000 people. […] Over 11,000 Philadelphia residents died in October 1918, including 759 on the worst day of the outbreak. Drivers of open carts kept a near-constant vigil circling streets while hollering, “Bring out your dead!” They then deposited the collected corpses in mass graves excavated by steam shovels. […] There’s a tremendous growth of the Ku Klux Klan because people were afraid of what was foreign. The whole nativist impulse was fed by people’s fear generated by flu

    Italy? One of the worst affected European countries most severely affected by the Spanish flu. . The Roman salute replaced the unhygienic handshake in Italy. All this stemmed not from the the–er–March 1918 epidemic. but rather the real Spanish flu, the 1918 October outbreak. What is currently happening will seem in retrospect to be a dress rehearsal for the big (second) wave. That will be a true political watershed.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @ben tillman
  43. This is really incredibly dumb. Yes–chloroquine is not FDA-approved for the Chinese coronavirus. The virus is months old–nothing is. But there is a promising study from France indicating it helps. And it is currently being used in Italy, Spain, and various other European countries to treat coronavirus.

    From the looks of it, Nevada’s governor basically did this to signal his anti-Trumpness, because of course Trump is very excited by the possibility of chloroquine. So he’s willing to deprive his own citizens of potentially life-saving medicine–medicine whose side-effects are well-understood, since it has been in existence for decades–to own the President. Really? It is absurd.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
  44. @Lot

    All that said: switching from diet coke to sugar free diet tonic water if you’re a NYC resident? Couldn’t hurt!

    Yeah, but if I’m going to drink something as foul tasting as quinine laced soda water, I at least want something in it to balance out that crapiness. Maybe something like:

    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  45. @AnotherDad

    Then these are the wrong experts.

    There are three kinds of “experts”. You seem to lump them all together, which is about as wise as lumping snake oil and penicillin into the same category.

    TV experts — the “psychics” who make 1000 predictions and brag about the 2 that were correct. The talking heads on Sunday morning and cable shows whose accuracy was beaten by a gorilla with a dart board. The TV doctors with their miracle cures. The Pundits. You would be better off flipping a coin.

    Second: The social scientists who rely on crackpot “theories” which don’t actually meet the scientific definition of theories. These are the ones who push busing and “whiteness” etc. without any concern as to whether they are doing more harm than good. Again, stick with the coin flip, which would be infinitely less damaging.

    The third group of experts are the ones who rely on rigorous research and peer reviewed papers. These are the experts who came up with vaccines for most diseases. These are the experts who put a man on the moon and returned the crew safely to earth. These are the experts who predicted Katrina and Sandy years before the storms happened. These are the experts who predicted a major pandemic no later than 2020.

    If you don’t listen to these experts you are a complete fool. Similarly if you lump them in with the first two groups.

    There is an “expert” who happens to be a Nobel Laureate who predicted almost exactly the number of confirmed cases and the number of deaths in Hubei Province based on early changes in the second derivative of the graphs. He was right on the money.

    The biggest flaw I see with some — absolutely NOT all — of the iSteve posters is the tendency to group all these categories of “experts” together and dismiss the good ones because some don’t like their predictions. Not wise.

  46. everybody hates Big Pharma until there’s a pandemic.

    “Oh god, you have the cure? How much? 500 per pill? I’ll take it!”

    • Replies: @CCZ
  47. @Sean

    Germans Americans were renowned as hand craft brewers of beer and owners of hostelries (The Drumps’s). Prohibition owed a lot to anti German feeling.

    The Klan chapter of Chippewa Falls lit their very first cross outside Leinenkugel’s brewery. They had no problem with Lutheran Germans– hell, they had no problem with Lutheran Slovaks— but the Leinies were Papists. Can’t allow that.

    The Klan was a progressive lot. They also depended a lot on their women, who were Dry.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    , @Sean
  48. @Captain Tripps

    Make that Mumbai Sapphire!

    Pairs well with a Mollywood musical.

    • Replies: @RSDB
  49. Jack D says:

    Do not, however, ingest aquarium cleaning chemicals on your own say-so.

    …. if you are an idiot. This is like the thing with the masks – masks are good if a doctor wears them but not if you wear them. Chloroquine phosphate is good if a drug company sells it to you for $5.40/pill but not if you buy it for $5.40/lb.

    There was a news story about some Darwin award winner who poisoned himself taking fish tank chloroquine. The dose makes the poison. The recommended dose of chloroquine for malaria prevention (no one knows how much to take for Chinese virus) is 500mg (.5 grams) once a week. According to the stories I read, idiot and his wife each took a heaping spoonful – this was probably around 10 grams or 20x the recommended dose, if not more. Nothing happened to the wife, but idiot keeled over – he probably had a weak heart.

    If the guy was not an idiot and had a proper scale and had measured out .5 g (or even if he had taken “a pinch” – the amount of powder that you can pick up between your thumb and forefinger) he would have been fine. The problem is not that he took fish tank cleaner. Maybe aquarium chloroquine phosphate is 99% pure and USP chloroquine phosphate is 99.9% pure but that .9% is just inert salts. The problem is that he took a massive overdose. If he had gotten pharmaceutical chloroquine from his doctor and took 20 pills at once, no one (well maybe some lawyers) would blame chloroquine, they would blame the idiot who swallowed 20 pills.

    Given that chloroquine may save lives and given that the supply of prescription chloroquine is suddenly as scarce as N95 masks (probably for the same reason – it all comes from China), taking fish tank chloroquine in the proper dose as a last resort is not really a bad idea. If the shit really hit the fan and I was dying at home and was #200 on the ventilator wait list, I would take it (in a measured dose). Probably not prophylactically – the risk is not worth it in that case. But it’s better than nothing and would not kill you when taken in the proper dose.

    • Agree: Lot, vhrm, ben tillman
    • Replies: @Lot
    , @Paleo Liberal
  50. Lot says:
    @Jack D

    Preppers and poor cheapskates have been using fish antibiotics for at least a decade. It could be fake I suppose, but unlikely to be actively dangerous.

  51. @Jack D

    I pointed out in the first iSteve thread — this stuff is toxic. This is like the old fashioned days of medicine when the goal was to poison the body enough to kill the disease but hopefully not to kill the patient. Chemotherapy and radiation therapy use the same idea.

    I think the French used 600 mg per day, and the Chinese used 1000 mg (1 g) per day in 2 x 500 mg doses.

    A friend of mine takes 300 mg per day, and had some unpleasant side effects especially at first.

    At 2000 mg there is a significant mortality rate.

    10-20 g (10,000 – 20,000 mg) is death.

  52. @Reg Cæsar

    The Second Klan was by far the largest, and was very different from earlier or later incarnations.

    The Second Klan was biggest in the Midwest, especially Indiana. The Second Klan was also mostly anti-Catholic and to a lesser extent anti-immigrant. In that respect it was far closer to the old American Party than to the First Klan.

    The University of Wisconsin is in the process of renaming anything named after anyone who was ever a member of the Second Klan. For example, there is a room named after a fellow who joined the Klan as a student, left the Klan after graduation, and led an exemplary life afterwards. But Klan, so canceled. I have mixed feelings about that.

  53. Sean says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    The 1918 influenza epidemic and the capture of British stores which contained large quantities of alcohol were both major reasons why Germany did not win WW1 in 1918. War, Famine, Plague, Death. Then an Austrian teetotaler raging against birth defects, syphilis, and alcohol.

    In the case of the man, there is the additional fact that unfortunately he often runs across the path of this plague after ample consumption of alcohol.[…] When such an effort is made elsewhere they only indulge in silly comment and try from a safe distance to show that such an enterprise is theoretically impossible and doomed to failure. No arguments are too stupid to be employed in the service of their own pettifogging opinions and their knavish moral attitude. If, for instance, a whole continent wages war against alcoholic intoxication, so as to free a whole people from this devastating vice, our bourgeois European does not know better than to look sideways stupidly, shake the head in doubt and ridicule the movement with a superior sneer – a state of mind which is effective in a society that is so ridiculous..

  54. @RichardTaylor

    Yeah, I was wondering something like this the other day.

    Why don’t the trillionaires devote every cent of their ill-gotten gains to life extension?

    What does it benefit them to gain the whole world and lose their own lives?

    I mean, I know David Rockefeller made it to 101. But pretty sick for 20 years. And what the hell, my poor parents made it to their 90s and my poor great-grandmother to 101.

    It just goes to show that the rich really are stupid, just like I always said.

  55. Setting aside the issues around testing and not testing enough… Africa and India seem to be relatively lesser hit by COVID. People of African and Indian origin also tend to have certain DNA mutations that make them more resilient to mosquito borne illnesses like malaria (but more prone to sickle cell disease etc). Are these connected? Is the reason why Africans and Indians are less impacted by COVID (despite lower quality of life in these nations) to do with innate genetic protection against malaria? Do we have any data on mild vs serious cases by age as well as race for those living in western nations?

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  56. @Senor Moose

    But there is a promising study from France indicating it helps. And it is currently being used in Italy, Spain, and various other European countries to treat coronavirus.

    Those reports jibe with this story about a doctor in Monroe, NY:

    https://www.wnd.com/2020/03/doctor-treated-350-coronavirus-patients-100-success

    The guy is real, and he has his treatment regime posted on his Facebook page.

    From the looks of it, Nevada’s governor basically did this to signal his anti-Trumpness, because of course Trump is very excited by the possibility of chloroquine. So he’s willing to deprive his own citizens of potentially life-saving medicine–medicine whose side-effects are well-understood, since it has been in existence for decades–to own the President. Really? It is absurd.

    If the chloroquine cocktail proves to be the cure, at minimum, a sane society would remove such impediments to the public good via lifetime incarceration.

  57. @Sparkon

    Very informative. Thank you.

  58. @ConfirmationBias

    Several factors have to be accounted for:

    1. Many of the poorer nations are seeing a much later onslaught of the disease. Fewer rich people who can afford ski trips? Fewer Chinese and Italian tourists? Not sure.

    2. Many of the LDCs are not testing very much. They have neither the infrastructure nor the kits.

    3. Some of these nations are dictatorships that may not permit bad news about Coronavirus. Why zero cases in Nork or Burma? Is it lack of testing, or fear of getting shot?

    • Replies: @ConfirmationBias
  59. @RichardTaylor

    Ever read the story of King Canute?

  60. If the experts all think hydroxychloroquine is quackery, then why are doctors all over the country hoarding it for themselves and their families?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/business/doctors-buying-coronavirus-drugs.html?fbclid=IwAR25_NMKi9J0ZklwhtD_1nvzwIs0bWNS67BgzEuWOOc_WmpQ6s754Ju3oBc

    Do any of y’all think it’s weird that although this treatment is becoming the standard in France, Jordan, South Korea, etc., the U.S. news media has been amplifying its message that hydroxychloroquine is a dangerous hoax?

    When I search for news about the drug’s performance in ongoing clinical trials, I’m flooded with reports about the guy who accidentally offed himself with fishtank cleaner. Or for the brainier set, stories about chicks with lupus rotting on the vine because suddenly they can’t get their medicine (this despite a multimillion-dose global manufacturing ramp-up).

    I’m no conspiracist, but it seems oddly concerted.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @vhrm
  61. [Nevada Governor Steve] Sisolak signed an emergency order earlier Tuesday barring the use of anti-malaria drugs for someone who has the coronavirus.

    He’s out of his mind. Presumably, it is some kind of middle-finger to Trump, but this is an utterly insane decision.

  62. @vhrm

    Those servicemen returning from WWII are still causing a housing shortage in Manhattan that justifies the imposition of rent control.

  63. They love to gamble in Nevada, don’t they?

    But seriously, perhaps the governor was asked by the medical profession to ban the drug so that the doctors would not be put under intolerable pressure by MAGA heads to prescribe the stuff improperly.

  64. OTOH, in California, it seems K-P is withholding hydrochrloroquinone from patients who do NOT have Coronavirus. Exactly the opposite.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tanyachen/kaiser-permanente-lupus-chloroquine

    And, this stuff really is toxic, so careful. The person I know who takes it regularly is losing some sight. This is a known side effect.

    Taking Plaquenil long-term or at high doses may cause irreversible damage to the retina of your eye. Stop taking Plaquenil and call your doctor at once if you have trouble focusing, if you see light streaks or flashes in your vision, or if you notice any swelling or color changes in your eyes.

    https://www.drugs.com/plaquenil.html

  65. @Toddy Cat

    I have no idea whether chloroquine will work or not, but this seems to be much more about “Orange Man Bad!” than it does about anything medical.

    Indeed. The proper way to mediate a conflict of interest between lupus and rheumatoid arthritis patients on the one hand and Covid-19 patients on the other is the economic phenomenon called price.

  66. @Couch scientist

    How brave are the people of Nevada to volunteer as the control.

    “Conservatives” initiated a recall petition on Feb. 15 for other reasons. They have 90 days from that date to sign up 25% of the number who voted in the 2018 general election. I bet it picks up steam.

    https://news3lv.com/news/local/group-starts-petition-seeking-recall-of-nevada-gov-steve-sisolak

    • Agree: Couch scientist
    • Replies: @vhrm
  67. @Sean

    Over 11,000 Philadelphia residents died in October 1918, including 759 on the worst day of the outbreak. Drivers of open carts kept a near-constant vigil circling streets while hollering, “Bring out your dead!”

    True or borrowed from Monty Python?

    Prohibition had a lot to do with progressive feminism, including the version practiced by the KKK. For a long time the Klan spent a lot of its efforts intimidating wife-beaters and drunks who neglecte3d their families. The KKK supported the 18th and 19th Amendments.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  68. anon[246] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Williams

    Do any of y’all think it’s weird that although this treatment is becoming the standard in France, Jordan, South Korea, etc., the U.S. news media has been amplifying its message that hydroxychloroquine is a dangerous hoax?

    Nah, nothing weird there. It’s normal. US liberals hate white proles and want them dead. The MSM is full of white liberals, so even 4 – 5 years ago when the Oxy story broke it was played down. A reasonable treatment for COVID-19 would not only save white proles, it would also mean that Drumpf was right about something which makes white libtards seeth with anger – as is routinely seen in comments on this site – Trump Derangement Syndrome at work.

    This crisis once again reveals that white American libtards are in league with death. They want more heritage Americans to die, the sooner the better, and never let a crisis go to waste.

  69. @Sparkon

    Yes, thanks. I learn something new every day!

  70. @ben tillman

    Interesting. And that’s the “second” Klan, which we’re told was the really bad one.
    Is that correct?

    PS: I think Sean knows Python.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  71. Anonymous[113] • Disclaimer says:

    The dose makes the poison. I know a man who was diagnosed with Stage 4 esophagus cancer in 2004. He’s still here. He eats the core of the apple and gives away the rest. Thinks apple seeds and alkaline water and dog dewormer have kept him alive.

    The active ingredient in apple seeds is cyanide.

    Two apple seeds contain enough to kill some small mammals, but not a human.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  72. @Mr McKenna

    He didn’t say anything about banging pots, or Robinsons, but I should have figured he was one who stuck it in there.

    And, yes, it’s the “second” Klan.

  73. Swede55 says:

    The Oregon Medical Board is against it as well. “The Board does not approve of inappropriate or false prescribing, especially in times of crisis.”

    The Chinese are using it though. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

  74. vhrm says:
    @Daniel Williams

    Fortunately this has an easy explanation, imo:

    Trump is pushing it and the FDA hasn’t approved it for this use. It’s also an old/simple drug.

    So the msm get to point and wail that that Trump is anti-science and pretend he’s pushing a folk cure.

    I really think it’s 90+% just Trump bashing motivated.

    But maybe you’re right and this is “masks don’t help” 2.0 that the media are (probably unvittingly) helping to carry out. (like they did 1.0)

  75. MBlanc46 says:
    @Lot

    53 liters. Plus the gin. And a lot of limes. Maybe in a week.

  76. dfordoom says: • Website

    The response here seems to be based on the assumption that anything a Democrat does must be bad and wrong and evil, and part of a nefarious anti-Trump plot. Orange Man Good! Democrats bad!

    Given that no-on knows for certain how effective Chloroquine is against COVID-19, or whether it’s effective at all, and given that it’s a drug with dangerous and potentially lethal side effects, and given the fact that there are lots of idiots out there who will try to self-medicate themselves even if their symptoms are mild, the Governor’s decision does not seem wildly unreasonable.

    And it does seem reasonable to ensure that there are adequate supplies of the drug for people who actually need it to treat conditions for which it is known to be effective.

    But Orange Man Good! Democrats bad!

    • Replies: @anon
  77. vhrm says:
    @ben tillman

    I wish then luck, but collecting signatures is tough with social distancing and such.

    It’s an issue with getting ballot initiatives qualified for the ballot for November in CA. And i think the requirements are WAY lower.

    https://www.kpvi.com/news/national_news/california-ballot-initiative-campaigns-are-in-the-final-weeks-of/article_1932cb5b-2ea0-5262-976a-7726c27cede8.html

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  78. Ragno says:

    Do not, however, ingest aquarium cleaning chemicals on your own say-so.

    And then blame Trump for “making” you do it.

    Not that the MSM requires an actual accuser.

    “A man reportedly died after ingesting a substance used to clean fish tanks that contains a form of chloroquine, a drug that President Donald Trump has claimed repeatedly could be a “game changer” in the fight against the novel coronavirus.“- ABC News

    The “Donald” was in case you maybe had him confused with Sol or Jerry Trump, I guess

    • LOL: ben tillman
  79. anon[125] • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    Given that no-on knows for certain how effective Chloroquine is against COVID-19, or whether it’s effective at all,

    You really don’t bother to pay attention to much of anything outside of your own brain, do you? Not any of the comments here citing actual field results, especially comments by res. Not even fecking Drudge? Pathetic. You’re just a pathetic old commie Boomer with too much time on your hands.

    Look, cobber, the Chinese Communist Party approves of it. You surely wouldn’t oppose them, would you? Hmmmmmm?

  80. Stogumber says:

    News: A French politician is treated with chloroquine by French heterodox doctor Didier Raoult – and allegedly healed:
    http://www.fdesouche.com/1353793-martine-vassal-candidate-lr-a-marseille-traitee-a-la-chloroquine-par-le-pr-raoult-na-plus-le-virus

  81. @vhrm

    I wish then luck, but collecting signatures is tough with social distancing and such.

    Duh. Why didn’t I think of that?

  82. Art Deco says:
    @Anonymous

    I know a man who was diagnosed with Stage 4 esophagus cancer in 2004. He’s still here.

    Let go of my leg.

  83. Let me make sure I understand Nevada. I can smoke a joint while getting laid by a hooker and play blackjack all at the same time and they’re good with it. But, if I take a drug for an ailment that isn’t listed on the label they call in the SWAT team.

    OK, this just confirms that we live in Bizzaro World

  84. @Paleo Liberal

    All valid points. But also this:
    https://www.indiaspend.com/1-in-50-covid-19-tests-in-india-are-coming-out-positive-compared-with-1-in-4-in-italy-1-in-10-in-the-uk/

    1 in 50 tests turn out positive in India, vs 1 in 4 for Italy and 1 in 10 for UK. India is also conserving it’s tests and *not* testing the vast majority of people who are exhibiting mild symptoms because it just doesn’t have enough tests.

    Meanwhile, apart from anti-malarial drugs, the other drug that’s showing initial promise, is a Century-old tuberculosis vaccine. Again, most people in India either have TB (and some immunity to it) or have been vaccinated against it as an infant (I was when I was born here).

  85. CCZ says:
    @prime noticer

    “In response, generic maker, Mylan N. V. MYL, has restarted production of hydroxychloroquine sulfate tablets at its West Virginia manufacturing facility in the United States to meet the expected increased demand resulting from potential effectiveness of the product in treating COVID-19. The company is also taking steps to initiate production of this product outside the United States in the coming weeks. The company expects to be in a position to begin supplying the product by mid-April and to ramp up manufacturing to provide 50 million tablets to potentially treat a total of more than 1.5 million patients.”

    “Rival Teva Pharmaceutical Industries Ltd. TEVA announced the immediate donation of more than 6 million doses of hydroxychloroquine sulfate tablets through wholesalers to hospitals across the United States. The Israeli company is one of the world’s largest makers of hydroxychloroquine, a less-toxic version of chloroquine, which is used in malaria, rheumatoid arthritis and lupus.”

    “Teva will donate 6 million tablets to U.S. hospitals through wholesalers by March 31, and more than 10 million within a month, the company said Thursday. All subsequent product manufactured and shipped to wholesalers will also be donated.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mylan-teva-focus-chloroquine-being-125612438.html

  86. El Dato says:

    When in doubt, ban something.

    A french prefect called Ziad Khoury thinks now is the time to ban:

    No corona for you: French local authority bans ALCOHOL sales amid virus lockdown

    Residents of the French department of Aisne are heading for a truly harsh coronavirus lockdown, as local authorities have imposed a blanket ban on alcohol sales. The move is for their own good, officials argue. [Isn’t it always?]

    Announcing the decision on Tuesday, Prefect of the department Ziad Khoury pointed out that alcohol abuse often goes hand in hand with domestic violence – which, many fear, is bound to surge under the lockdown.

    “It’s a shame you put people in danger and will add more trouble for caregivers! Reverse this decision as soon as possible!” another chimed in.

    Some went as far as to suggest that the prefect, who is of Lebanese origin, mulls imposing the “sharia law” in the department, with the ban on the booze being just the first of many steps.

    “Sharia law on the move!” a witty netizen wrote, poking fun at the name of Emmanuel Macron’s En Marche! (“Forward!”) ruling party.

    Also, the Nevada goons are just admins:

    Is there a doctor in the house? Nevada state medical team that banned malaria drug for coronavirus lacks qualification

    Pushing the loudest for the restrictions had been Ihsan Azzam, Nevada’s chief medical officer. While Azzam has a masters degree and prior experience in environmental public health and epidemiology, fulfilling the qualifications required to hold the state post, his only experience actually practicing medicine came from an obstetrics and gynecology department in an African hospital over two decades ago.

    Azzam is thus not qualified to actually practice medicine in the US, nor does he have any experience treating respiratory conditions, and his advice to Sisolak appeared to some to be motivated more by anti-Trump sentiment than genuine medical concern. It’s not clear how many malaria patients Nevada typically sees in a given year – the mosquito-borne illness is exceedingly rare in the US, and was even declared eliminated in 1951 by the Centers for Disease Control – but the decision to essentially put them ahead of potential coronavirus sufferers raised some eyebrows, especially among Trump supporters familiar with the president’s interest in the drugs.

    Nor is it only Azzam potentially dispensing unqualified medical advice to Nevadans. Another researcher pointed out that both Nevada’s medical epidemiologist and state epidemiologist also seemed to lack the necessary qualifications to “make medical decisions related to infectious disease.” Medical epidemiologist Stephanie Woodward has a doctorate in psychology, not epidemiology or public health; while state epidemiologist Melissa Peek-Bullock has just a BS in health ecology. While her resume touts her leading roles managing various local disease outbreaks, she lacks even a Masters in Public Health and neither woman appears to have attended medical school.

    Many on social media were shocked that there was not a single practicing medical doctor among the trio, and a petition to recall Sisolak as governor even began gathering momentum.

    Next up: Coders who passed JavaScript bootcamp put in charge of handling high-assurance software.

    • Replies: @EdwardM
    , @anon
  87. anon[156] • Disclaimer says:

    The Governor’s office says it decided to issue the emergency regulation to restrict doctors, other than those in hospitals and emergency rooms, from prescribing chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, to prevent hoarding and assure an ample supply for patients using it for medical issues like lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, where clinical trials have demonstrated its effectiveness.

    He issued this clarification.

    I tend to believe him.

    But his comment about it not being proven to work but must be conserved for ER’s and Hospitals was curious. If you tell people not to hoard something, does that cause a stampede? Maybe so, but being a little less duplicitous would have prevented all this.

    Of course Doctors would be laying in personal supplies.

  88. EdwardM says:
    @El Dato

    Have you noticed that every “chief medical officer” (who knew that states had these now?), head of public health, county emergency management director, hospital administrator, etc., that CNN has trotted out to pontificate on coronavirus is a fat black woman?

    Sure, readers here know who fills these bureaucratic niches, and we know that CNN will be loath to put a white man on, but’s still eye-opening. I am watching CNN International (unfortunately the only news option available where I am). What must the rest of the world think of U.S. managerial competence? And they would be right.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  89. Anonymous[180] • Disclaimer says:
    @EdwardM

    In normal times top health posts don’t require much work or smarts and tend to become sinecures for politically connected people.

  90. anon[407] • Disclaimer says:
    @El Dato

    Next up: Coders who passed JavaScript bootcamp put in charge of handling high-assurance software.

    Boeing may be ahead of you on this one.

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