The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Nature and Nurture at Quarterback
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information


=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

LSU quarterback Joe Burrow, the Heisman Trophy winner, finished up a fairly good season Monday evening in a 42-25 win over Clemson in the national championship game. Burrow threw for 5 touchdowns and 463 yards, down only slightly from his 7 touchdowns and 493 yards in the semifinal win over Oklahoma.

A general pattern is that to get to be a top quarterback these days is a multigenerational project. From Wikipedia:

Joseph Lee Burrow is the son of former University of Nebraska, NFL and CFL player Jim Burrow, who went on to a coaching career that lasted nearly 40 years. The elder Burrow, whose last coaching position was defensive coordinator at Ohio University for more than a decade, retired after the 2018 season in part to be able to see all of Joe’s games in his final college season. Joe was born in Ames, Iowa while his father was on the staff at Iowa State. According to a 2019 Sports Illustrated story, “The Burrow athletic lineage dates back nearly a century.” In the 1940s, one of his grandmothers set a Mississippi state high school record with an 82-point game in basketball. His paternal grandfather played basketball at Mississippi State; his uncle, John Burrow, played football at Ole Miss; and two older brothers also played football at Nebraska.

He attended the 2002 Rose Bowl at age six as his father was an assistant coach for Nebraska. Not long after, he began playing in youth football leagues. Unlike his father, uncle, and brothers, who all played on defense, Burrow started out as a quarterback because his first youth team had no one else who could play the position.

The Burrow family moved to Fargo, North Dakota in 2003 when his father was hired as the defensive coordinator for the North Dakota State Bison. One day while visiting the office, future Central Michigan head coach Dan Enos commented that the seven year old had a future in football.

On the other hand, as Malcolm Gladwell pointed out in the late 2000s, it’s not easy to figure out exactly which 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach or a successful businessman is going to succeed at quarterback. (Gladwell overstated his case, but it’s worth remembering his point.) Burrow, for example, couldn’t crack the starting line-up at Ohio State. So he made use of the same loophole in the NCAA rules that Russell Wilson of the Seahawks used to save his career after his coach at North Carolina State couldn’t figure out how to use him so he transferred to Wisconsin: if you have already gotten your undergrad degree, you can transfer without sitting out a year. So Burrow, having completed his Ohio State B.A. in 3 years transferred to LSU and is now expected to go #1 in the NFL draft.

 
Hide 150 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. How many pro basketball players have had mentoring fathers? That would be much more revealing.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My impression is that the percentage of NBA players from North America who grew up with a driveway to shoot 3 pointers in has gone up.
    , @Lagertha
    Most of your geriatric Americans and sad-sack Americans (the chattering here, who hate me) have no clue that BB Players are now, integral to NFL. I love that LSU won! - so, sue me! :)
    , @Sean
    Not really because they all think they can slam dunk. The Williams sisters' coaching by their father taking them to domination of a previously very white sport suggests the right mentoring could produce superb black quarterbacks, if there were black males willing to accept the necessary discipline.
    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    How many pro basketball players have had mentoring fathers? That would be much more revealing.
     
    I think that there probably was a period during the 70s-80s when a good number of professional basketball players were not the product of doting parents (this, I think, was the way things were then for a lot of things). But there also used to be informal or less formal basketball associations in big cities where kids could play some version of organized basketball a lot and all year round. In Philadelphia, Sonny Hill still has a Sunday morning radio show on the sports talk channel, and he often reminisces about playing in these informal associations with local and nationally renowned players including Wilt Chamberlain. According to Hill, they'd even take trains up to NYC to find worthy competition.

    Now, the money in professional basketball is exponentially greater than it was in the 70s, while the informal associations have dried up and been replaced with AAU and travel teams which require investments in time and money for young players. This obviously favors the better off financially, while politics to get on a team and get playing time probably also factor in. If your dad was even just a journeyman in the NBA, you will inherit some natural gifts (probably height and athleticism) but also a network and an advocate as well as the perception that you have potential that you may or may not possess.

    It does seem, as Steve has observed, that the NBA is composed of many more second generation players than before . . .
  2. @Anon
    How many pro basketball players have had mentoring fathers? That would be much more revealing.

    My impression is that the percentage of NBA players from North America who grew up with a driveway to shoot 3 pointers in has gone up.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    One of the LSU receivers, Thaddeus Moss, is Randy Moss’s son. Wikipedia doesn’t say whether Randy raised him, but Randy was at the game and seems to have a good relationship with him.
    , @Lagertha
    don't be more smug than me!!!!!!!!!!!!
  3. I am up until the end – I love both teams and and, more, importantly, their coaches….’cause a draw!!!!!

  4. LSU WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!

  5. @Steve Sailer
    My impression is that the percentage of NBA players from North America who grew up with a driveway to shoot 3 pointers in has gone up.

    One of the LSU receivers, Thaddeus Moss, is Randy Moss’s son. Wikipedia doesn’t say whether Randy raised him, but Randy was at the game and seems to have a good relationship with him.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Until Randy Moss retired in 2012, his five children were raised by his white drug addict girlfriend in WV. I assume Moss raised the four youngest when their mother lost custody. However, Thad attemded five high schools in three sttates.
    , @Just Saying
    Thaddeus Moss gave an interview about his relationship with his dad. Seems the elder Moss was very involved in a positive way. You can sort of tell R Moss is T Moss' hero - which is how things should be.
    , @Triumph104
    After high school, Thad Moss chose NC State over Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Michigan, and Texas A&M, I assume partly to be near his father who lives in Charlotte and partly to work with a specific coordinator. When the coordinator was fired and other reasons, Thad transferred after one season. He had to sit out his first year at ĹSU then missed the next season due to injury.

    Randy's daugher Sydney, his oldest, said that she did not have a good relationship with her father. Sydney is heavily tattoed and masculine. She played basketball at Florida before requesting to be released so she could play at a DIII school.
    , @Prester John
    And don't forget Junior Stingley.
  6. istevefan says:

    So the father is about 43 years older than the son. Not terribly unusual, but I’d have guessed a younger dad would be more likely to play ball with the kid. Of course the dad is a former D1 athlete and a career coach, so that kind of explains things. But he must have taken good physical care of himself, he’s 66, to be able to still keep up with the youngsters.

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    His mom appears to be way younger than 66 based on what I saw on TV. So Joe’s dad was the type who could lock down a much younger wife, meaning there’s some good alpha male genes at work there.
  7. The War on White Quarterbacks

    From an internal NYT policy paper.

    • Replies: @bomag
    I caught an NPR sports segment the other day. Big hand wringing over not enough Black coaches in the NFL. Lots of emotional labor. At one point, the (female) host gushed over how great Blacks are doing as quarterback in the NFL and used that to suggest that Blacks should fill a commensurate number of head coaching positions. I'm waiting for her to go to bat on behalf of more White defensive backs.
  8. I understand that the Diversity Drivers are claiming the NFL is racist for not hiring Black Coaches and GMs in the recent coach replacement contest. Furthermore, breaking news….. others are claiming that the College Championship was also racist since both quarterbacks were white…….more to come….

  9. @Steve Sailer
    My impression is that the percentage of NBA players from North America who grew up with a driveway to shoot 3 pointers in has gone up.

    don’t be more smug than me!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. “as Malcolm Gladwell pointed out in the late 2000s, it’s not easy to figure out exactly which 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach or a successful businessman is going to succeed at quarterback.”

    well, you just have them play, and the game sorts them out. that’s the point of the game. it sorts.

    “Burrow, for example, couldn’t crack the starting line-up at Ohio State.”

    yeah, i think we know why that was. Ohio State only plays one kind of player.

    not as bad as Aaron Rodgers getting almost zero offers, but it’s part of the usual trend.

    if they can’t get these guys out of the game by competition, they’ll get them out by not even letting them play at all. they’ve been doing this at other positions for years. now it’s time for the quarterbacks.

    the wrench in the works is that there are 100 teams in FBS, and 32 teams in NFL, so 1 or 2 teams might take a chance on these guys.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber

    if they can’t get these guys out of the game by competition, they’ll get them out by not even letting them play at all. they’ve been doing this at other positions for years. now it’s time for the quarterbacks.
     
    One of the benefits of scholarship limits is that it prevents the haves from stocking up on players then never playing them.
    , @SteveRogers42
    Yup.
  11. @Charon
    The War on White Quarterbacks

    From an internal NYT policy paper.

    I caught an NPR sports segment the other day. Big hand wringing over not enough Black coaches in the NFL. Lots of emotional labor. At one point, the (female) host gushed over how great Blacks are doing as quarterback in the NFL and used that to suggest that Blacks should fill a commensurate number of head coaching positions. I’m waiting for her to go to bat on behalf of more White defensive backs.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    NPR host: What's a defensive back?
    , @Mr McKenna

    used that to suggest that Blacks should fill a commensurate number of head coaching positions
     
    When "Establishment Journalists" start suggesting that blacks should fill a commensurate number of franchise ownership positions, you'll know that the Revolution is truly at hand.
    , @Bill P
    Middle-aged female NPR hosts have been doing lots of gushing over young black men lately. That's just about all I hear on that station these days.

    It's a little unseemly, kind of like those older ladies who go to Jamaica to find gigolos.
    , @Enemy of Earth
    Agree. I am also waiting for her to advocate for a commensurate number of Black sports anchors and reporters.
  12. @Anon
    How many pro basketball players have had mentoring fathers? That would be much more revealing.

    Most of your geriatric Americans and sad-sack Americans (the chattering here, who hate me) have no clue that BB Players are now, integral to NFL. I love that LSU won! – so, sue me! 🙂

  13. Surprised not to see mention of Patrick Mahomes here yet. Mixed race son of a black pro baseball player and a white mom who throws the football as if it were a baseball.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Watching Mahomes flip the football around in various odd ways, I guessed that he was a second baseman in high school baseball, because it looks like he'd be good at improvising throws to short to start the double play. But he was a fine pitcher in high school.
    , @Mr McKenna

    a white mom who throws the football as if it were a baseball
     
    Eh, she's probably a tranny.
    , @anon
    isn't it the case that intelligence is mostly from the mother's DNA? Would help explain how he could learn the playbook
    , @animalogic
    Who'd bet against Mahome's holding up the Lombardi in early Feb'?
    Of course, a Ravens like outcome can't be ruled out....
  14. Steve is not wrong about the general point. the amazing American sorting system is starting to show that extremely high talent levels are fairly hereditary at most endeavors or fields.

    “His dad played for…” is now a common sentence heard from sports announcers.

    i do wonder if writing ability is one of the talents that is least able to be passed on. we spend most of our time in HBD world discussing how intelligence passes on. but extremely high writing ability is part of that and it doesn’t seem to transfer. famous writers almost never have kids that become famous writers. this is not the same as verbal ability, which does transfer.

    also per Steve’s military post, behavior patterns are hereditary. as two of the big ones are clearly hereditary, intelligence and personality, environmentalists are in a jam. i think we’ll find that behavior patterns are just furthur extensions of brain construction. as with intelligence, it’s likely that the brain construction instructions in DNA also tell the cells to build a brain that has similar structures and activation patterns as it’s predecessors. that’s almost certainly what’s going on with GAD and depression, and we’ll find that’s how most personality works. it seems self evident, going by how animal breeding works and personality in animals.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Waugh-Cockburn clan has been in the writing game for much of the last 175 years.
    , @nymom
    Yes, I had heard that depression is hereditary...as are various other mental disorders. Even more reason to be very selective in who you marry and/or have children with as many people seem very careless today about picking a mate...
    , @Hhsiii
    Kingsley and Martin Amis.
    , @animalogic
    The Manning brothers are also a pretty good indicator of genetic influence (& perhaps the Harbaugh brothers too).
    On the other hand, how often have sons filled to live up to great fathers?)
    , @Kratoklastes
    Part of this is because of the insane levels of positional specialisation in major American pro sports. The nearest thing to a generalist in American football is a tight end (which is why all my favourite players are TEs or LBs): pretty much everyone else (including the QB) is a one-trick pony.

    I don't watch basketball much because it's just a bunch of 6'6"+ blokes running up and down an area 10% the area of a football field (a bb court is 31% of a football field in each dimension), but the actual skills are limited. This is why there is no optimisation: otherwise teams would instruct players to shoot free-throws 'underhand' (provably, demonstrably a higher-probability method than the standard method).

    The Operational Research view of the world has some half-decent empirical evidence that most professional activities of any sort (including most sports) don't involve single-domain freakery: they involve developing a set of general skills.

    For sports the most obvious general skills are fitness, physical co-ordination, and spatial dexterity - and while endowment in those areas is non-trivial, all of them are trainable to elite levels virtually from scratch. The 'once in a lifetime' player tends to have extraordinary levels of spatial dexterity.

    Roger Federer is the exemplar of this at the elite level (Martina Hingis likewise, for women).

    No single part of his game is "best" - his is not the biggest serve; not the best 1st-serve percentage; not the most insane ground strokes; not the heaviest topspin forehand; not the most brutal 2-handed backhand; he's not the outright fittest guy out there; he's mentally a bit fragile (when he goes off the boil mentally he looks awful). He's probably top decile (among the elite) in all those things, though.

    However his spatial awareness - for every relevant thing and path in the playing space - is hypertrophied .This enables him to narrow the set of things he has to consider, and ensures that he gets to the ball with about a week to spare - and put the ball somewhere that is in the hardest 10% of places for the opponent to get to.

    That 'preternatural' spatial awareness seems to come out of nowhere: people who have it, tend to have it from the first time they enter the field (it can be hard to tell because their lack of fitness or co-ordination can more than offset). It's found in people who are in all other respects, cognitively unspectacular.

    When you see people with that sort of awareness in team sports, they make it look like other payers are moving in slow motion.

    Scott Pendlebury (captain of Collingwood in the AFL) at his peak a few years ago, seemed to have all the time in the world to make decisions.

    He's not tallest, fastest, biggest; he's not the longest or most-accurate kick or handball; his 'non-preferred' side skills are barely to professional standard; his fitness is only top-decile (for the AFL).

    This is Pendles last year - 5 years past his best: hopefully the video cues to 41 seconds.

    You'll notice that he takes receipt of the ball while he's basically surrounded, then beats a total of 6 defenders - not by being faster; not by breaking tackles; he does it by slowing down and very rapidly identifying a set of movements that defenders can't get to.

    https://youtu.be/yhHc1PI5dsA?t=41

    You can't teach that; the players that exhibit it don't have any obvious common traits in their parents (although aboriginal and part-aboriginal players tend to exhibit it; Pendles isn't part-aboriginal).

    Don't get me wrong: these people are still exceptional at all the things that they're not 'best' at in their peer level.

    The point is: Federer's not best at any single-skill aspect of tennis - but the combination, when paired with preternatural spatial awareness, results in him being overall best at the thing that matters... winning Grand Slams.

    Not bad for a guy who was excused from compulsory military service because of a bad back.

    .

    Outside of sports it's a chicken-egg thing as far as heritability goes - the environment in which kids of exceptional practitioners in [insert field] are raised, will have characteristics that encourage the kiddie to think that [insert field] is a useful thing to pursue. Their parents' social circle will include more people from [insert field] or a nearby field. They will get some social kudos for being the kid of famous [insert field] person.

    More generally, domain specialists will tend to value education and to have a more-education-oriented home. (All this strongly caveated that the expert in [insert field isn't an asshole]

    So for the kids of professional journalists (like the Cockburns, and to a lesser extent the Waughs), home life would favour a literary-analytical approach to things, and adult acquaintances would have a similar broad set of values.

    That, plus any heritable aspects of intelligence, plus the ability to exploit parental networks... all of those things are odds-tilts that make it likely that the kiddies will do something in the media, marketing or literary world.

    .

    The thing that constantly amazes me is that somehow poor urban areas of the US seem to turn out tall people (almost regardless of race) more than one would expect.

    Just recently I watched a documentary about a guy born in Puerto Rico who was a big deal in High School basketball (in the 80s, I think) who washed out in college and never made it to the NBA. Neither of his parents were tall, and they lived in a part of town that was poor as shit.

    I wonder if there will be some future revelation that the US government experimented by putting growth-chemicals in the water supply in shitty parts of town?

    Seems like something they would do, and would help explain half of the NFL and more than half of the NBA.


    .

    At the end of the day, the best guess at the split is the default - 50/50 Nat/Nur - except for basketball centres, where being tall is such a massive advantage that a genuine 7' male in the US supposedly has a 1-in-6 chance of playing in the NBA.

    FWIW: I just tried to get a cite for that, and it seems contentious (partly because genuine raw 7'ers are so rare).

    I also learned that all sports 'list' heights are generally measured in shoes/cleats/boots etc... turns out that Dikembe Matumbo was barely 7' (when he was listed at 7'2"); Jordan 6'4".

    That system permits me to claim to be 6'3" in my Hoka OneOne Gaviotas.

    It also clears up why an AFL player I have met socially is listed at my actual height (6'1½") but is the same actual height as my kid brother (who is 5'11½").

  15. @bomag
    I caught an NPR sports segment the other day. Big hand wringing over not enough Black coaches in the NFL. Lots of emotional labor. At one point, the (female) host gushed over how great Blacks are doing as quarterback in the NFL and used that to suggest that Blacks should fill a commensurate number of head coaching positions. I'm waiting for her to go to bat on behalf of more White defensive backs.

    NPR host: What’s a defensive back?

  16. @a boy and his dog
    Surprised not to see mention of Patrick Mahomes here yet. Mixed race son of a black pro baseball player and a white mom who throws the football as if it were a baseball.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm_svGpXL8s

    Watching Mahomes flip the football around in various odd ways, I guessed that he was a second baseman in high school baseball, because it looks like he’d be good at improvising throws to short to start the double play. But he was a fine pitcher in high school.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Jim Christian

    But he was a fine pitcher in high school.
     
    Ryan of the Globe said Brady's prospects out of high school were better in baseball, but then look what happened. Steve, you notice touch: you see how Lamar Jackson's passes were these wobbly, nose-down throws at high velocity, a pass which his receivers dropped a LOT last weekend? QBs were failed by their receivers all over, including Mahomes at the start. Mahomes throws perfect spirals on a seemingly perfect plane. Jackson was a mess as soon as he figured out Tennessee wasn't going to let him run around without killing him. All of a sudden, Tannehill is a hero?
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Watching Mahomes flip the football around in various odd ways, I guessed that he was a second baseman in high school baseball
     
    John Elway's batting left-handed would have given him a different, shall we say, perspective from other right-handed quarterbacks. Whether that would work to his advantage is an intriguing question.
    , @Anon55uu
    No expert but I heard Mahomes speak for the first time today and he has some sort of Southern accent but doesn’t sound “black”. The Texas city he’s from is 93% white per Wikipedia. He seems a good guy and his arm sets him apart from the other black (running) QBs.
  17. @prime noticer
    Steve is not wrong about the general point. the amazing American sorting system is starting to show that extremely high talent levels are fairly hereditary at most endeavors or fields.

    "His dad played for..." is now a common sentence heard from sports announcers.

    i do wonder if writing ability is one of the talents that is least able to be passed on. we spend most of our time in HBD world discussing how intelligence passes on. but extremely high writing ability is part of that and it doesn't seem to transfer. famous writers almost never have kids that become famous writers. this is not the same as verbal ability, which does transfer.

    also per Steve's military post, behavior patterns are hereditary. as two of the big ones are clearly hereditary, intelligence and personality, environmentalists are in a jam. i think we'll find that behavior patterns are just furthur extensions of brain construction. as with intelligence, it's likely that the brain construction instructions in DNA also tell the cells to build a brain that has similar structures and activation patterns as it's predecessors. that's almost certainly what's going on with GAD and depression, and we'll find that's how most personality works. it seems self evident, going by how animal breeding works and personality in animals.

    The Waugh-Cockburn clan has been in the writing game for much of the last 175 years.

    • Replies: @prime noticer
    "The Waugh-Cockburn clan has been in the writing game for much of the last 175 years."

    the exception proves the rule. that Steve Sailer, the master of the academically obscure, can only come up with one counterexample, shows that the observation is accurate.

    a man can sometimes pass on a modicum of his musical ability, his humor, his mathematical facility, his verbal adroitness, his athletic ability, and certainly some of his appearance, height, strength, or character. but a famous author isn't passing that acumen on to any of his kids. the talent to wordsmith at a rate fast enough and good enough to produce several notable works per decade remains rather rare. although due to typewriters and now word processors, the capability to word salad your way to a dozen worthless books over a writing career is ubiquitous.

    extreme music talent, which is probably second most rare, is common compared to what Stephen King or Rowling or George Martin can do. and those are some of the pop culture fiction writers, without touching luminaries like Tolkein. also, that women can actually do this stuff sometimes, whereas in most other endeavors they're not even in the game, makes the ability even rarer, in a contra point to Neil deGrasse Tyson. the whole population is in on this and might be able to do it, but almost nobody can, and, it can't be passed on to kids. Tolkein and King had a bunch of kids, none of them could write. would be interesting to check TFR and writing ability of famous level writers, actually. don't think it's been done even in HBD land.
  18. @a boy and his dog
    Surprised not to see mention of Patrick Mahomes here yet. Mixed race son of a black pro baseball player and a white mom who throws the football as if it were a baseball.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm_svGpXL8s

    a white mom who throws the football as if it were a baseball

    Eh, she’s probably a tranny.

    • Replies: @PaceLaw
    Stay classy McKenna, stay classy.
  19. That “B.A. in 3 years” loophole is obviously racist, since it has disparate impact on black players. It’s essentially an IQ test gatekeeping mechanism.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    Not exactly. Plenty of players, black and white get through in three years and take advantage of this rule. The players stay on campus year round and the athletic department loads them up on easy summer school classes which tutors help them with if necessary. It isn't that hard to graduate in three years with the help they get.
    , @S. Anonyia
    Not an IQ gatekeeping mechanism at all. Most college football players at big football schools essentially get personalized study guides and are spoon fed the answer to tests. They rarely show up to classes, they don’t have to. I witnessed this in person.

    Now the truly dumb ones will still struggle regardless of all that. But a typical college football player has it really easy.
  20. which 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach

    For some reason Steve has never written about Todd Marinovich, who was a 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach. He was also the nephew of Craig Fertig, former USC QB and Oregon State head coach.

    • Replies: @fish

    For some reason Steve has never written about Todd Marinovich, who was a 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach. He was also the nephew of Craig Fertig, former USC QB and Oregon State head coach.
     
    Marinovich….so tightly wound that if you stuck a lump of coal up his ass in a week you'd have a diamond!


    /hat tip Cameron Frye
    , @silviosilver
    All I remember about him is what a complete bust he was.

    I just checked wikipedia for the hell of it though, and it had this quote from a Sports Illustrated article:

    He has never eaten a Big Mac or an Oreo or a Ding Dong. When he went to birthday parties as a kid, he would take his own cake and ice cream to avoid sugar and refined white flour. He would eat homemade catsup, prepared with honey. He did consume beef but not the kind injected with hormones. He ate only unprocessed dairy products. He teethed on frozen kidney and liver.
     
    Damn, kid was paleo before it was cool.
    , @JeremiahJohnbalaya
    I could be wrong, but i don't think Marinovich's problem was athletic ability (natural or nurtured).
  21. @bomag
    I caught an NPR sports segment the other day. Big hand wringing over not enough Black coaches in the NFL. Lots of emotional labor. At one point, the (female) host gushed over how great Blacks are doing as quarterback in the NFL and used that to suggest that Blacks should fill a commensurate number of head coaching positions. I'm waiting for her to go to bat on behalf of more White defensive backs.

    used that to suggest that Blacks should fill a commensurate number of head coaching positions

    When “Establishment Journalists” start suggesting that blacks should fill a commensurate number of franchise ownership positions, you’ll know that the Revolution is truly at hand.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    I think you mean to say that when Establishment Journalists start wringing their hands and demanding that blacks should fill a commensurate number of Establishment Journalist positions...

    One Charles Blow is simply not enough. Why not ten thousand? The methane emitting from the nonstop mouths of ten thousand Charles Blows, all opinionating at once, might even be an important source of Green New Energy.
    , @animalogic
    "When “Establishment Journalists” start suggesting that blacks should fill a commensurate number of franchise ownership positions, you’ll know that the Revolution is truly at hand."
    You'll know the revolution will truly be at hand when msm journalists call for community ownership of big sporting enterprises (the Packers being a good example -- the exception that proves the rule)
  22. @bomag
    I caught an NPR sports segment the other day. Big hand wringing over not enough Black coaches in the NFL. Lots of emotional labor. At one point, the (female) host gushed over how great Blacks are doing as quarterback in the NFL and used that to suggest that Blacks should fill a commensurate number of head coaching positions. I'm waiting for her to go to bat on behalf of more White defensive backs.

    Middle-aged female NPR hosts have been doing lots of gushing over young black men lately. That’s just about all I hear on that station these days.

    It’s a little unseemly, kind of like those older ladies who go to Jamaica to find gigolos.

    • Replies: @bomag
    Agree, and from the little I listen anymore, the thing is a Woke ghetto, with stories and features about the latest Cause: past or current racism in some form; immigration boosterism; climate change; evilness of Trump and his minions. Anything else is a quick take one could get from the local news.
    , @Alfa158
    OK, now I have Jamaican Divorce playing over and over in my head.
    , @Anonymous
    In Search of the Big Bamboo.

    It was from the old lefty Utne Reader iirc.
    , @Whiskey
    White women are the eternal enemy of White men. In a diverse environment. They've been trying to replace us since 1950. At least.

    Islam is right about women.
  23. So he made use of the same loophole in the NCAA rules that Russell Wilson … used … if you have already gotten your undergrad degree, you can transfer without sitting out a year.

    Of course you need the intellectual chops to pull this off. Burrow also had the foresight to leave OSU with two years of eligibility remaining.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Burrow's first year starting at LSU was only pretty good, while his second was amazing. He's older than Lamar Jackson, who is going to be the NFL's 2019 MVP.

    Russell Wilson was able to dominate in his one and only year at Wisconsin, but he'd already gotten some playing time at NC State.

  24. @Steve Sailer
    Watching Mahomes flip the football around in various odd ways, I guessed that he was a second baseman in high school baseball, because it looks like he'd be good at improvising throws to short to start the double play. But he was a fine pitcher in high school.

    But he was a fine pitcher in high school.

    Ryan of the Globe said Brady’s prospects out of high school were better in baseball, but then look what happened. Steve, you notice touch: you see how Lamar Jackson’s passes were these wobbly, nose-down throws at high velocity, a pass which his receivers dropped a LOT last weekend? QBs were failed by their receivers all over, including Mahomes at the start. Mahomes throws perfect spirals on a seemingly perfect plane. Jackson was a mess as soon as he figured out Tennessee wasn’t going to let him run around without killing him. All of a sudden, Tannehill is a hero?

    • Replies: @Prester John
    Mahomes, temporarily demoted as the flavor of the month by Jackson, has since reclaimed his position as one of the Top Three qbs, with Rogers and Wilson, and may well be the best of them all right now. Jackson is not in the same book--never mind same page--as those three.
    , @Desiderius
    I can’t remember if Drew Henson choosing baseball opened up the slot for Brady to play at all or how exactly that played out.
  25. @prime noticer
    "as Malcolm Gladwell pointed out in the late 2000s, it’s not easy to figure out exactly which 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach or a successful businessman is going to succeed at quarterback."

    well, you just have them play, and the game sorts them out. that's the point of the game. it sorts.

    "Burrow, for example, couldn’t crack the starting line-up at Ohio State."

    yeah, i think we know why that was. Ohio State only plays one kind of player.

    not as bad as Aaron Rodgers getting almost zero offers, but it's part of the usual trend.

    if they can't get these guys out of the game by competition, they'll get them out by not even letting them play at all. they've been doing this at other positions for years. now it's time for the quarterbacks.

    the wrench in the works is that there are 100 teams in FBS, and 32 teams in NFL, so 1 or 2 teams might take a chance on these guys.

    if they can’t get these guys out of the game by competition, they’ll get them out by not even letting them play at all. they’ve been doing this at other positions for years. now it’s time for the quarterbacks.

    One of the benefits of scholarship limits is that it prevents the haves from stocking up on players then never playing them.

    • Replies: @prime noticer
    "One of the benefits of scholarship limits is that it prevents the haves from stocking up on players then never playing them."

    this is something NCAA teams used to do like 40 years ago, but you can't do that anymore, correct.

    FBS teams have a limit of 85 offers, FCS teams can make 63 offers. that's still a heck of a lot of players. but it prevents the top 30 teams or so from locking up 90% of the recruits, leaving the other 90 teams with almost nothing.
  26. @Steve Sailer
    Watching Mahomes flip the football around in various odd ways, I guessed that he was a second baseman in high school baseball, because it looks like he'd be good at improvising throws to short to start the double play. But he was a fine pitcher in high school.

    Watching Mahomes flip the football around in various odd ways, I guessed that he was a second baseman in high school baseball

    John Elway’s batting left-handed would have given him a different, shall we say, perspective from other right-handed quarterbacks. Whether that would work to his advantage is an intriguing question.

  27. Joe Burrow, the 2019 Heisman winner is a month older than Baltimore Ravens star Lamar Jackson, the winner of the 2016 Heisman.

    • Replies: @vinny
    So despite Burrow being older, money made from playing football:

    Jackson: $10 million
    Burrow: $0

    And y'all say whites are smarter than blacks.

    , @ScarletNumber
    This is reminiscent of Vinny Testaverde being older than Bernie Kosar, his immediate predecessor with the Miami Hurricanes (and as it happened, the Cleveland Browns).
  28. @Dave Pinsen
    One of the LSU receivers, Thaddeus Moss, is Randy Moss’s son. Wikipedia doesn’t say whether Randy raised him, but Randy was at the game and seems to have a good relationship with him.

    Until Randy Moss retired in 2012, his five children were raised by his white drug addict girlfriend in WV. I assume Moss raised the four youngest when their mother lost custody. However, Thad attemded five high schools in three sttates.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Correction - four states
  29. @Dave Pinsen
    One of the LSU receivers, Thaddeus Moss, is Randy Moss’s son. Wikipedia doesn’t say whether Randy raised him, but Randy was at the game and seems to have a good relationship with him.

    Thaddeus Moss gave an interview about his relationship with his dad. Seems the elder Moss was very involved in a positive way. You can sort of tell R Moss is T Moss’ hero – which is how things should be.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Thaddeus Moss gave an interview about his relationship with his dad. Seems the elder Moss was very involved in a positive way. You can sort of tell R Moss is T Moss’ hero – which is how things should be.
     
    I'm old enough to remember when fathers taught their sons never to hit a girl.

    Especially with the family car:


    https://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/vikings-randy-moss-arrested-1.311396


    https://www.liveabout.com/randy-moss-antics-1335699

    America's Dad!

  30. @Triumph104
    Until Randy Moss retired in 2012, his five children were raised by his white drug addict girlfriend in WV. I assume Moss raised the four youngest when their mother lost custody. However, Thad attemded five high schools in three sttates.

    Correction – four states

  31. @Steve Sailer
    Watching Mahomes flip the football around in various odd ways, I guessed that he was a second baseman in high school baseball, because it looks like he'd be good at improvising throws to short to start the double play. But he was a fine pitcher in high school.

    No expert but I heard Mahomes speak for the first time today and he has some sort of Southern accent but doesn’t sound “black”. The Texas city he’s from is 93% white per Wikipedia. He seems a good guy and his arm sets him apart from the other black (running) QBs.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Mahomes' black dad wasn't a really good major league pitcher but he was good enough to see action in 11 big league seasons.
    , @Arclight
    He just has a sort of strange voice, period - I saw an interview in which he talked about how his teammates tease him about it and tell him he sounds like Kermit the Frog.
  32. It’s not that Burrow couldn’t crack the starting line-up at Ohio State so much as that Urban Meyer was dumb and preferred black Dwayne Haskins for some reason.

    Ohio State is evil and backed by Les Wexner, though, so screw them.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    J.T. Barrett was the starting QB while Burrow was at Ohio St. They at least had some success, made the playoffs Burrow's first year and won the Cotton Bowl the other year he was on the roster.

    Burrow's first choice out of high school was to play for Nebraska. The Cornhuskers were coached by Mike Riley at the time, who didn't even want Burrow on his roster and didn't recruit him. Riley ended up getting fired and is going to be an assistant coach in the XFL when it starts up again. Nebraska hasn't made a bowl game in the last three seasons. It does make you wonder how much picking the right school matters for success. While having Burrow would have helped Nebraska, their pathetic defense and overall poor coaching by Riley still wouldn't have gotten them anywhere near the national championship game.
    , @Redneck farmer
    A Pedo State graduate, I take it?
    , @PaceLaw
    Well it turns out to be a rare win-win situation for all involved! Haskins was 1st round draft pick last year and Burrow will be the #1 overall draft pick after winning the national championship. Nobody can complain.
    Also Ohio State is not evil.
    , @Desiderius
    Columbus is where we quarantine all our globalists, so that’s only natural. And it still took a determined effort by a replay booth official to hand them their only loss of the season. Tells you how great the rest of the state is.
  33. @Anon55uu
    No expert but I heard Mahomes speak for the first time today and he has some sort of Southern accent but doesn’t sound “black”. The Texas city he’s from is 93% white per Wikipedia. He seems a good guy and his arm sets him apart from the other black (running) QBs.

    Mahomes’ black dad wasn’t a really good major league pitcher but he was good enough to see action in 11 big league seasons.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Which means he was better than 99.99999% of humanity at throwing things with velocity exactly where he wanted to.
  34. @Mr McKenna

    used that to suggest that Blacks should fill a commensurate number of head coaching positions
     
    When "Establishment Journalists" start suggesting that blacks should fill a commensurate number of franchise ownership positions, you'll know that the Revolution is truly at hand.

    I think you mean to say that when Establishment Journalists start wringing their hands and demanding that blacks should fill a commensurate number of Establishment Journalist positions…

    One Charles Blow is simply not enough. Why not ten thousand? The methane emitting from the nonstop mouths of ten thousand Charles Blows, all opinionating at once, might even be an important source of Green New Energy.

  35. Here’s Lamar Jackson giving his post draft interview to fellow master of verbal command Deion Sanders:

    Lot’s of nature vs. nurture to dissect here.

  36. @Dave Pinsen
    One of the LSU receivers, Thaddeus Moss, is Randy Moss’s son. Wikipedia doesn’t say whether Randy raised him, but Randy was at the game and seems to have a good relationship with him.

    After high school, Thad Moss chose NC State over Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Michigan, and Texas A&M, I assume partly to be near his father who lives in Charlotte and partly to work with a specific coordinator. When the coordinator was fired and other reasons, Thad transferred after one season. He had to sit out his first year at ĹSU then missed the next season due to injury.

    Randy’s daugher Sydney, his oldest, said that she did not have a good relationship with her father. Sydney is heavily tattoed and masculine. She played basketball at Florida before requesting to be released so she could play at a DIII school.

  37. @ScarletNumber

    So he made use of the same loophole in the NCAA rules that Russell Wilson ... used ... if you have already gotten your undergrad degree, you can transfer without sitting out a year.
     
    Of course you need the intellectual chops to pull this off. Burrow also had the foresight to leave OSU with two years of eligibility remaining.

    Burrow’s first year starting at LSU was only pretty good, while his second was amazing. He’s older than Lamar Jackson, who is going to be the NFL’s 2019 MVP.

    Russell Wilson was able to dominate in his one and only year at Wisconsin, but he’d already gotten some playing time at NC State.

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    Wilson started at NC State and was pretty good there. I think he transferred to Wisconsin because NCSU didn’t have good enough players to surround him with. Nonetheless he did lead them to an 8-win season his final year there. I saw a game where they lost and he was outdueled by Virginia Tech’s Tyrod Taylor (a similar player in style).
    , @Paleo Liberal
    As good as Wilson was at Wisconsin, he wasn’t seen as an elite QB in those days. He was drafted by Seattle to be a backup QB, and possible eventual starter. Wilson did so well in training camp and the pre season that Seattle got rid of Matt Flynn.
    , @Walsh2
    At the end of his first year he took one hardest hits you'll ever see, got up, brushed himself off and took care of business. At that point his team was all in behind him. Over the off season Ogeron hired QB coach from NO Saints, Burrows had the entire off season to work with one of the best receiving corps in the game, and the rest is history.

    Burrows is certainly an interesting case study - his coach, moreso. Ogeron is a straight up coon ass. For those of you unfamiliar with southern pejoratives/terms of endearment(not mutually exclusive terms) a coon ass is an individual, white or black, from the backwoods of Louisiana. Regardless, Ogeron failed up in a spectacular fashion. He began as an assistant defensive line coach for some of the best team in the nation and has a very colorful history as a coach who players love. His first stint as a head coach he went 0-8 in the SEC at Ole Miss and got fired. He went to LSU as an assistant then took over as interim coach and was eventually hired as head coach. LSU fans were not happy with the hire. Despite being considered an idiot by many he had the foresight to realize that LSU's wide receivers were consistently the best in the nation and were being under used so he hired a coach from the Saints and turned him loose with the offense.

    Ogeron nature - about a 110 IQ + Ogeron nuture - Louisiana backwoods = National Championship and seven figure annual salary. Not bad for a coon ass.
  38. @istevefan
    So the father is about 43 years older than the son. Not terribly unusual, but I'd have guessed a younger dad would be more likely to play ball with the kid. Of course the dad is a former D1 athlete and a career coach, so that kind of explains things. But he must have taken good physical care of himself, he's 66, to be able to still keep up with the youngsters.

    His mom appears to be way younger than 66 based on what I saw on TV. So Joe’s dad was the type who could lock down a much younger wife, meaning there’s some good alpha male genes at work there.

  39. Thinking that both Nebraska and Ohio State are feeling kind of stupid now. They would like to say they prefer a quarterback who can run well (like a halfback who can throw well?) but if you saw Burrow scramble you know better. Burrow was one of only two white starters on the LSU team (also the right tackle on offense) but he won over the team with his leadership and performances. Seems most players like to win and win big. In some cases even over tribal affiliation.

    Expect Burrow to play in the NFL like a young Tom Brady, only with better scrambling ability.

    • Replies: @Walsh2
    In football and most team sports tribal affiliation is with the team, especially between the lines. The culture of the team is > than color of the player.
    , @Desiderius
    That’s the biggest thing Bengals fans are looking forward to after a decade of having a QB with negative pocket awareness. He would take off running or throw the ball away with no one near him.

    Burrow’s stats this year under pressure are Gretzky-like.
    , @ben tillman

    Thinking that both Nebraska and Ohio State are feeling kind of stupid now. They would like to say they prefer a quarterback who can run well (like a halfback who can throw well?) but if you saw Burrow scramble you know better. Burrow was one of only two white starters on the LSU team (also the right tackle on offense) but he won over the team with his leadership and performances. Seems most players like to win and win big. In some cases even over tribal affiliation.
     
    Of course, in '03 LSU's championship team also had just two white starters: a safety and the tailback.
  40. @Steve Sailer
    Burrow's first year starting at LSU was only pretty good, while his second was amazing. He's older than Lamar Jackson, who is going to be the NFL's 2019 MVP.

    Russell Wilson was able to dominate in his one and only year at Wisconsin, but he'd already gotten some playing time at NC State.

    Wilson started at NC State and was pretty good there. I think he transferred to Wisconsin because NCSU didn’t have good enough players to surround him with. Nonetheless he did lead them to an 8-win season his final year there. I saw a game where they lost and he was outdueled by Virginia Tech’s Tyrod Taylor (a similar player in style).

    • Replies: @PaceLaw
    Not quite correct. Wilson transferred because the head coach at NC State told him because he was going to go in a different direction at qb. Apparently the coach thought Wilson was too short to make it to the NFL.
  41. @Anon55uu
    No expert but I heard Mahomes speak for the first time today and he has some sort of Southern accent but doesn’t sound “black”. The Texas city he’s from is 93% white per Wikipedia. He seems a good guy and his arm sets him apart from the other black (running) QBs.

    He just has a sort of strange voice, period – I saw an interview in which he talked about how his teammates tease him about it and tell him he sounds like Kermit the Frog.

  42. @Bill P
    Middle-aged female NPR hosts have been doing lots of gushing over young black men lately. That's just about all I hear on that station these days.

    It's a little unseemly, kind of like those older ladies who go to Jamaica to find gigolos.

    Agree, and from the little I listen anymore, the thing is a Woke ghetto, with stories and features about the latest Cause: past or current racism in some form; immigration boosterism; climate change; evilness of Trump and his minions. Anything else is a quick take one could get from the local news.

  43. @Steve Sailer
    Burrow's first year starting at LSU was only pretty good, while his second was amazing. He's older than Lamar Jackson, who is going to be the NFL's 2019 MVP.

    Russell Wilson was able to dominate in his one and only year at Wisconsin, but he'd already gotten some playing time at NC State.

    As good as Wilson was at Wisconsin, he wasn’t seen as an elite QB in those days. He was drafted by Seattle to be a backup QB, and possible eventual starter. Wilson did so well in training camp and the pre season that Seattle got rid of Matt Flynn.

  44. @Steve Sailer
    Mahomes' black dad wasn't a really good major league pitcher but he was good enough to see action in 11 big league seasons.

    Which means he was better than 99.99999% of humanity at throwing things with velocity exactly where he wanted to.

  45. @Steve Sailer
    Burrow's first year starting at LSU was only pretty good, while his second was amazing. He's older than Lamar Jackson, who is going to be the NFL's 2019 MVP.

    Russell Wilson was able to dominate in his one and only year at Wisconsin, but he'd already gotten some playing time at NC State.

    At the end of his first year he took one hardest hits you’ll ever see, got up, brushed himself off and took care of business. At that point his team was all in behind him. Over the off season Ogeron hired QB coach from NO Saints, Burrows had the entire off season to work with one of the best receiving corps in the game, and the rest is history.

    Burrows is certainly an interesting case study – his coach, moreso. Ogeron is a straight up coon ass. For those of you unfamiliar with southern pejoratives/terms of endearment(not mutually exclusive terms) a coon ass is an individual, white or black, from the backwoods of Louisiana. Regardless, Ogeron failed up in a spectacular fashion. He began as an assistant defensive line coach for some of the best team in the nation and has a very colorful history as a coach who players love. His first stint as a head coach he went 0-8 in the SEC at Ole Miss and got fired. He went to LSU as an assistant then took over as interim coach and was eventually hired as head coach. LSU fans were not happy with the hire. Despite being considered an idiot by many he had the foresight to realize that LSU’s wide receivers were consistently the best in the nation and were being under used so he hired a coach from the Saints and turned him loose with the offense.

    Ogeron nature – about a 110 IQ + Ogeron nuture – Louisiana backwoods = National Championship and seven figure annual salary. Not bad for a coon ass.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Ogeron nature – about a 110 IQ + Ogeron nuture – Louisiana backwoods = National Championship and seven figure annual salary. Not bad for a coon ass.
     
    He should be coaching the Ducks. Just to confuse everybody.

    Or pull a Paul Newman and license his name to an oregano producer.
    , @The Wild Geese Howard

    For those of you unfamiliar with southern pejoratives/terms of endearment(not mutually exclusive terms) a coon ass is an individual, white or black, from the backwoods of Louisiana.
     
    I worked with a dude like this. Pretty good, laid-back guy who has kind of failed his way through life.

    Regardless, Ogeron failed up in a spectacular fashion.
     
    Don't totally agree with the idea he failed up.

    In 1988, [Orgeron] began his tenure with the University of Miami, under then-head coach Jimmy Johnson and his successor, Dennis Erickson. He was their defensive line coach for four of those years, in which he coached eight All-Americans (including NFL first-round draft choices Cortez Kennedy, Russell Maryland and Warren Sapp). While he was with the Hurricanes, the program won two national championships (in 1989 and 1991), and he recruited a young Dwayne Johnson (later known as "The Rock" in his professional wrestling and film careers) as a defensive lineman.
     
    Recruiting is huge in college football. Coaching one All-American could be construed as luck, but 8? That's a trend.

    At USC, he won National Recruiter of the Year in 2004:

    During the Carroll years, USC enjoyed much success, including two (Associated Press) National Championships. Orgeron took on the added responsibility of Recruiting Coordinator in 2001, and was named assistant head coach in 2003.[5] Orgeron won National Recruiter of the Year honors in 2004, the same year he was hired by Ole Miss to replace head coach David Cutcliffe.
     
    I bet that Orgeron was involved in recruiting quite of few of the players on the 2003 and 2004 USC National Championship teams. This points to an ability to identify and recruit talent.

    Ole Miss was a huge comedown from USC and it's no surprise he did not do well there. I do think he got a raw deal as the interim head coach at USC. I thought he did enough to earn one more year and avoid being pushed out by known drunk Steve Sarkisian.

    From Orgeron's resume, I think it's clear that he has certain abilities that he's maximized to eventually land his dream job at LSU. He appears quite able to identify and recruit talent. He is probably a more hands-off, CEO style coach that leaves the Xs and Os to his coordinators.

    Congrats to Coach O, totally agree he's doing great for a coon ass.
    , @ben tillman

    Burrows is certainly an interesting case study – his coach, moreso. Ogeron is a straight up coon ass. For those of you unfamiliar with southern pejoratives/terms of endearment(not mutually exclusive terms) a coon ass is an individual, white or black, from the backwoods of Louisiana.
     
    A coonass is a Cajun. A coonass is white.
    , @Federalist
    Come on.

    His name is Burrow. Not Burrows.

    A coonass is not "an individual, white or black, from the backwoods of Louisiana." Coonass is synonymous with Cajun. Blacks are never referred to as Cajuns or coonasses.
  46. @Anon
    How many pro basketball players have had mentoring fathers? That would be much more revealing.

    Not really because they all think they can slam dunk. The Williams sisters’ coaching by their father taking them to domination of a previously very white sport suggests the right mentoring could produce superb black quarterbacks, if there were black males willing to accept the necessary discipline.

  47. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    It's not that Burrow couldn't crack the starting line-up at Ohio State so much as that Urban Meyer was dumb and preferred black Dwayne Haskins for some reason.

    Ohio State is evil and backed by Les Wexner, though, so screw them.

    J.T. Barrett was the starting QB while Burrow was at Ohio St. They at least had some success, made the playoffs Burrow’s first year and won the Cotton Bowl the other year he was on the roster.

    Burrow’s first choice out of high school was to play for Nebraska. The Cornhuskers were coached by Mike Riley at the time, who didn’t even want Burrow on his roster and didn’t recruit him. Riley ended up getting fired and is going to be an assistant coach in the XFL when it starts up again. Nebraska hasn’t made a bowl game in the last three seasons. It does make you wonder how much picking the right school matters for success. While having Burrow would have helped Nebraska, their pathetic defense and overall poor coaching by Riley still wouldn’t have gotten them anywhere near the national championship game.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    J.T. Barrett was the starting QB while Burrow was at Ohio St. They at least had some success, made the playoffs Burrow’s first year and won the Cotton Bowl the other year he was on the roster.

     

    Barrett was only the starter for the first few years of Burrow's time. Barrett was perfect for Meyer's power option offense, but he was replaced by Dwayne Haskins for the 2018 campaign. Haskins was slower and less agile than Barrett - hence Meyer, and his new OC, Kevin Wilson, ended up using a lot more passing concepts. Thus, in the long run, OSU should have kept Burrow. The real competition was not between Barrett and Burrow, but Burrow and Haskins. In my opinion, OSU chose poorly.

    However, OSU's current QB, Fields, is better for a run option offense. On the other hand, his toughness may be a question - he fumbled a lot against Penn State, where he tweaked his knee or ankle, and he seemed to play less well after that. As far as next year, I don't think it's possible that Fields will be as good. Wexner's Buckeyes got incredible luck this year, and one of those bits of luck was Fields throwing with almost absurd efficiency. The odds are not in favor of that happening in 2020. They will also lack Chase Young and his incredibly effective Roid Rage. Whatever drugs that guy is on, I want some if I ever have to fight in a war.

    But in any case, pushing out Burrow in favor of Haskins was a dumb idea.

  48. @prime noticer
    Steve is not wrong about the general point. the amazing American sorting system is starting to show that extremely high talent levels are fairly hereditary at most endeavors or fields.

    "His dad played for..." is now a common sentence heard from sports announcers.

    i do wonder if writing ability is one of the talents that is least able to be passed on. we spend most of our time in HBD world discussing how intelligence passes on. but extremely high writing ability is part of that and it doesn't seem to transfer. famous writers almost never have kids that become famous writers. this is not the same as verbal ability, which does transfer.

    also per Steve's military post, behavior patterns are hereditary. as two of the big ones are clearly hereditary, intelligence and personality, environmentalists are in a jam. i think we'll find that behavior patterns are just furthur extensions of brain construction. as with intelligence, it's likely that the brain construction instructions in DNA also tell the cells to build a brain that has similar structures and activation patterns as it's predecessors. that's almost certainly what's going on with GAD and depression, and we'll find that's how most personality works. it seems self evident, going by how animal breeding works and personality in animals.

    Yes, I had heard that depression is hereditary…as are various other mental disorders. Even more reason to be very selective in who you marry and/or have children with as many people seem very careless today about picking a mate…

    • Replies: @Rex Little

    many people seem very careless today about picking a mate
     
    Today? This has been going on since arranged marriages went out of style. The book Smart Women Foolish Choices was first published in 1986, and I doubt it was the first on that subject.

    I know a woman who, by the time she was 40 (27 years ago) had been married three times and lived with three others for around two years each. That's six men she could have had kids with.

    Two of them were really impressive guys; either or both might be billionaires today. She didn't have a kid with either of them.

    Three of them were solid, successful professionals. She didn't have a kid with any of them.

    One was an alcoholic, cocaine-addicted high school dropout. That's the father of her only child. And sure enough, the kid (now 33) is homeless, unemployed, and back to using meth after five trips to rehab.
  49. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    It's not that Burrow couldn't crack the starting line-up at Ohio State so much as that Urban Meyer was dumb and preferred black Dwayne Haskins for some reason.

    Ohio State is evil and backed by Les Wexner, though, so screw them.

    A Pedo State graduate, I take it?

  50. @p s c
    Joe Burrow, the 2019 Heisman winner is a month older than Baltimore Ravens star Lamar Jackson, the winner of the 2016 Heisman.

    So despite Burrow being older, money made from playing football:

    Jackson: $10 million
    Burrow: $0

    And y’all say whites are smarter than blacks.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    Please circle back in 15 years and tell us how much of that $10mm Lamar still has.
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/leighsteinberg/2015/02/09/5-reasons-why-80-of-retired-nfl-players-go-broke/#7fe74d0878cc
  51. @Anon
    That "B.A. in 3 years" loophole is obviously racist, since it has disparate impact on black players. It's essentially an IQ test gatekeeping mechanism.

    Not exactly. Plenty of players, black and white get through in three years and take advantage of this rule. The players stay on campus year round and the athletic department loads them up on easy summer school classes which tutors help them with if necessary. It isn’t that hard to graduate in three years with the help they get.

    • Agree: Ed
  52. @Hannah Katz
    Thinking that both Nebraska and Ohio State are feeling kind of stupid now. They would like to say they prefer a quarterback who can run well (like a halfback who can throw well?) but if you saw Burrow scramble you know better. Burrow was one of only two white starters on the LSU team (also the right tackle on offense) but he won over the team with his leadership and performances. Seems most players like to win and win big. In some cases even over tribal affiliation.

    Expect Burrow to play in the NFL like a young Tom Brady, only with better scrambling ability.

    In football and most team sports tribal affiliation is with the team, especially between the lines. The culture of the team is > than color of the player.

  53. @prime noticer
    Steve is not wrong about the general point. the amazing American sorting system is starting to show that extremely high talent levels are fairly hereditary at most endeavors or fields.

    "His dad played for..." is now a common sentence heard from sports announcers.

    i do wonder if writing ability is one of the talents that is least able to be passed on. we spend most of our time in HBD world discussing how intelligence passes on. but extremely high writing ability is part of that and it doesn't seem to transfer. famous writers almost never have kids that become famous writers. this is not the same as verbal ability, which does transfer.

    also per Steve's military post, behavior patterns are hereditary. as two of the big ones are clearly hereditary, intelligence and personality, environmentalists are in a jam. i think we'll find that behavior patterns are just furthur extensions of brain construction. as with intelligence, it's likely that the brain construction instructions in DNA also tell the cells to build a brain that has similar structures and activation patterns as it's predecessors. that's almost certainly what's going on with GAD and depression, and we'll find that's how most personality works. it seems self evident, going by how animal breeding works and personality in animals.

    Kingsley and Martin Amis.

  54. @Dave Pinsen
    One of the LSU receivers, Thaddeus Moss, is Randy Moss’s son. Wikipedia doesn’t say whether Randy raised him, but Randy was at the game and seems to have a good relationship with him.

    And don’t forget Junior Stingley.

  55. Joe Burrow is a great quarterback aided by a fantastic receiving corps. Clemson’s defense is one of the best in the country and showed it last night. They were able to get more pressure on Burrow than any other team this year. But their DB’s were totally outclassed by LSU’s receivers who made the difference in the game.
    Clemson’s Trevor Lawrence has neither the talent or receivers as Burrow but was still able to best every other team they’ve played in the last two seasons. Clemson plays much better as a team than a group of superstar individuals. It really is a testament to the ability of Coaches Swinney and Venables (who both have sons on the team).

  56. @Jim Christian

    But he was a fine pitcher in high school.
     
    Ryan of the Globe said Brady's prospects out of high school were better in baseball, but then look what happened. Steve, you notice touch: you see how Lamar Jackson's passes were these wobbly, nose-down throws at high velocity, a pass which his receivers dropped a LOT last weekend? QBs were failed by their receivers all over, including Mahomes at the start. Mahomes throws perfect spirals on a seemingly perfect plane. Jackson was a mess as soon as he figured out Tennessee wasn't going to let him run around without killing him. All of a sudden, Tannehill is a hero?

    Mahomes, temporarily demoted as the flavor of the month by Jackson, has since reclaimed his position as one of the Top Three qbs, with Rogers and Wilson, and may well be the best of them all right now. Jackson is not in the same book–never mind same page–as those three.

  57. @Anon
    How many pro basketball players have had mentoring fathers? That would be much more revealing.

    How many pro basketball players have had mentoring fathers? That would be much more revealing.

    I think that there probably was a period during the 70s-80s when a good number of professional basketball players were not the product of doting parents (this, I think, was the way things were then for a lot of things). But there also used to be informal or less formal basketball associations in big cities where kids could play some version of organized basketball a lot and all year round. In Philadelphia, Sonny Hill still has a Sunday morning radio show on the sports talk channel, and he often reminisces about playing in these informal associations with local and nationally renowned players including Wilt Chamberlain. According to Hill, they’d even take trains up to NYC to find worthy competition.

    Now, the money in professional basketball is exponentially greater than it was in the 70s, while the informal associations have dried up and been replaced with AAU and travel teams which require investments in time and money for young players. This obviously favors the better off financially, while politics to get on a team and get playing time probably also factor in. If your dad was even just a journeyman in the NBA, you will inherit some natural gifts (probably height and athleticism) but also a network and an advocate as well as the perception that you have potential that you may or may not possess.

    It does seem, as Steve has observed, that the NBA is composed of many more second generation players than before . . .

    • Agree: JohnnyWalker123
    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    Jalen Rose is Jimmy Walker’s son, but Walker was an absentee father. All genes, aside from his mother and coaches’ nurturing.
  58. @Bill P
    Middle-aged female NPR hosts have been doing lots of gushing over young black men lately. That's just about all I hear on that station these days.

    It's a little unseemly, kind of like those older ladies who go to Jamaica to find gigolos.

    OK, now I have Jamaican Divorce playing over and over in my head.

  59. On a different topic, the Overton window is slowly opening for a 1924 like shutdown. Look at the comments in the Puffpost article:
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dating-undocumented-immigrant_n_5e1604d8c5b6c7b859d43779

  60. @Barnard
    J.T. Barrett was the starting QB while Burrow was at Ohio St. They at least had some success, made the playoffs Burrow's first year and won the Cotton Bowl the other year he was on the roster.

    Burrow's first choice out of high school was to play for Nebraska. The Cornhuskers were coached by Mike Riley at the time, who didn't even want Burrow on his roster and didn't recruit him. Riley ended up getting fired and is going to be an assistant coach in the XFL when it starts up again. Nebraska hasn't made a bowl game in the last three seasons. It does make you wonder how much picking the right school matters for success. While having Burrow would have helped Nebraska, their pathetic defense and overall poor coaching by Riley still wouldn't have gotten them anywhere near the national championship game.

    J.T. Barrett was the starting QB while Burrow was at Ohio St. They at least had some success, made the playoffs Burrow’s first year and won the Cotton Bowl the other year he was on the roster.

    Barrett was only the starter for the first few years of Burrow’s time. Barrett was perfect for Meyer’s power option offense, but he was replaced by Dwayne Haskins for the 2018 campaign. Haskins was slower and less agile than Barrett – hence Meyer, and his new OC, Kevin Wilson, ended up using a lot more passing concepts. Thus, in the long run, OSU should have kept Burrow. The real competition was not between Barrett and Burrow, but Burrow and Haskins. In my opinion, OSU chose poorly.

    However, OSU’s current QB, Fields, is better for a run option offense. On the other hand, his toughness may be a question – he fumbled a lot against Penn State, where he tweaked his knee or ankle, and he seemed to play less well after that. As far as next year, I don’t think it’s possible that Fields will be as good. Wexner’s Buckeyes got incredible luck this year, and one of those bits of luck was Fields throwing with almost absurd efficiency. The odds are not in favor of that happening in 2020. They will also lack Chase Young and his incredibly effective Roid Rage. Whatever drugs that guy is on, I want some if I ever have to fight in a war.

    But in any case, pushing out Burrow in favor of Haskins was a dumb idea.

  61. Vivek Wadhwa: Pattern Recognition Is Illegal Discrimination, Ban Eyes Now

    https://postimg.cc/LqLPDTVM

    —–
    Virginia Note: Nonviolent protesters have persuaded the out of control Virginia legislature to drop one (1) of their blatantly anti-Constitutional bills. You will recall that the Virginia legislature (Bloomberg edition) flooded their table with thousands of overlapping redundant bills to enable just this empty tactic — not only are thousands still incoming, but some of those thousands effectively replace the surrendered token. Nothing has been accomplished, but the Bloomberg employees have at least blinked, and the Virginian people have demonstrated that they can manifest crowds.

  62. @Just Saying
    Thaddeus Moss gave an interview about his relationship with his dad. Seems the elder Moss was very involved in a positive way. You can sort of tell R Moss is T Moss' hero - which is how things should be.

    Thaddeus Moss gave an interview about his relationship with his dad. Seems the elder Moss was very involved in a positive way. You can sort of tell R Moss is T Moss’ hero – which is how things should be.

    I’m old enough to remember when fathers taught their sons never to hit a girl.

    Especially with the family car:

    https://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/vikings-randy-moss-arrested-1.311396

    https://www.liveabout.com/randy-moss-antics-1335699

    America’s Dad!

  63. @Walsh2
    At the end of his first year he took one hardest hits you'll ever see, got up, brushed himself off and took care of business. At that point his team was all in behind him. Over the off season Ogeron hired QB coach from NO Saints, Burrows had the entire off season to work with one of the best receiving corps in the game, and the rest is history.

    Burrows is certainly an interesting case study - his coach, moreso. Ogeron is a straight up coon ass. For those of you unfamiliar with southern pejoratives/terms of endearment(not mutually exclusive terms) a coon ass is an individual, white or black, from the backwoods of Louisiana. Regardless, Ogeron failed up in a spectacular fashion. He began as an assistant defensive line coach for some of the best team in the nation and has a very colorful history as a coach who players love. His first stint as a head coach he went 0-8 in the SEC at Ole Miss and got fired. He went to LSU as an assistant then took over as interim coach and was eventually hired as head coach. LSU fans were not happy with the hire. Despite being considered an idiot by many he had the foresight to realize that LSU's wide receivers were consistently the best in the nation and were being under used so he hired a coach from the Saints and turned him loose with the offense.

    Ogeron nature - about a 110 IQ + Ogeron nuture - Louisiana backwoods = National Championship and seven figure annual salary. Not bad for a coon ass.

    Ogeron nature – about a 110 IQ + Ogeron nuture – Louisiana backwoods = National Championship and seven figure annual salary. Not bad for a coon ass.

    He should be coaching the Ducks. Just to confuse everybody.

    Or pull a Paul Newman and license his name to an oregano producer.

  64. @Mr McKenna

    a white mom who throws the football as if it were a baseball
     
    Eh, she's probably a tranny.

    Stay classy McKenna, stay classy.

  65. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    It's not that Burrow couldn't crack the starting line-up at Ohio State so much as that Urban Meyer was dumb and preferred black Dwayne Haskins for some reason.

    Ohio State is evil and backed by Les Wexner, though, so screw them.

    Well it turns out to be a rare win-win situation for all involved! Haskins was 1st round draft pick last year and Burrow will be the #1 overall draft pick after winning the national championship. Nobody can complain.
    Also Ohio State is not evil.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    I can’t think of a university in the US that’s not evil.
  66. @Jim Christian

    But he was a fine pitcher in high school.
     
    Ryan of the Globe said Brady's prospects out of high school were better in baseball, but then look what happened. Steve, you notice touch: you see how Lamar Jackson's passes were these wobbly, nose-down throws at high velocity, a pass which his receivers dropped a LOT last weekend? QBs were failed by their receivers all over, including Mahomes at the start. Mahomes throws perfect spirals on a seemingly perfect plane. Jackson was a mess as soon as he figured out Tennessee wasn't going to let him run around without killing him. All of a sudden, Tannehill is a hero?

    I can’t remember if Drew Henson choosing baseball opened up the slot for Brady to play at all or how exactly that played out.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#College_career

    TL;DR - Brady was a backup behind walk-on Brian Griese (son of Bob Griese, two time Super Bowl winning QB for Miami) for his first two seasons, then held off local wunderkind Drew Henson to win the starting job in 1998 and 1999.

    Those of us on campus at the time were generally against Carr's mandated first/second quarter platooning of Brady and Henson.

    We felt that if the guy on the field was playing well he should continue to play. The platoon system clearly disrupted in-game offensive momentum. It was believed that this led to more than a few avoidable losses during 1998 and 1999.

  67. @Hannah Katz
    Thinking that both Nebraska and Ohio State are feeling kind of stupid now. They would like to say they prefer a quarterback who can run well (like a halfback who can throw well?) but if you saw Burrow scramble you know better. Burrow was one of only two white starters on the LSU team (also the right tackle on offense) but he won over the team with his leadership and performances. Seems most players like to win and win big. In some cases even over tribal affiliation.

    Expect Burrow to play in the NFL like a young Tom Brady, only with better scrambling ability.

    That’s the biggest thing Bengals fans are looking forward to after a decade of having a QB with negative pocket awareness. He would take off running or throw the ball away with no one near him.

    Burrow’s stats this year under pressure are Gretzky-like.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Burrow has stated unequivocally he will not play in Cincinnati.
  68. @a boy and his dog
    Surprised not to see mention of Patrick Mahomes here yet. Mixed race son of a black pro baseball player and a white mom who throws the football as if it were a baseball.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm_svGpXL8s

    isn’t it the case that intelligence is mostly from the mother’s DNA? Would help explain how he could learn the playbook

  69. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    It's not that Burrow couldn't crack the starting line-up at Ohio State so much as that Urban Meyer was dumb and preferred black Dwayne Haskins for some reason.

    Ohio State is evil and backed by Les Wexner, though, so screw them.

    Columbus is where we quarantine all our globalists, so that’s only natural. And it still took a determined effort by a replay booth official to hand them their only loss of the season. Tells you how great the rest of the state is.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    The call on the field was wrong, and the team of replay officials were asked to review the play de novo. They got the call right.
  70. @Anon
    That "B.A. in 3 years" loophole is obviously racist, since it has disparate impact on black players. It's essentially an IQ test gatekeeping mechanism.

    Not an IQ gatekeeping mechanism at all. Most college football players at big football schools essentially get personalized study guides and are spoon fed the answer to tests. They rarely show up to classes, they don’t have to. I witnessed this in person.

    Now the truly dumb ones will still struggle regardless of all that. But a typical college football player has it really easy.

  71. @Desiderius
    That’s the biggest thing Bengals fans are looking forward to after a decade of having a QB with negative pocket awareness. He would take off running or throw the ball away with no one near him.

    Burrow’s stats this year under pressure are Gretzky-like.

    Burrow has stated unequivocally he will not play in Cincinnati.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Good move not choosing that pseudonym yet. Better to wait until you’ve got something to contribute.
  72. Anonymous[157] • Disclaimer says:

    Jackson’s throwing motion was tightened up by the pressure of that game. Exactly the same thing used to happen to Vick who ironically was Jackson’s favorite player when Jackson was a kid.

    Michael Vick never became a good playoff QB. Not the guy you want in the clutch. Jackson is a stupendous athlete but it’s possible he won’t be a big game QB.

    But I would also argue coach Harbaugh gets a MASSIVE FAIL for panicking early and dropping the running game and putting the season on the shoulders of such a young guy who’s already got a bad playoff performance under his belt.

    Steve, you notice touch: you see how Lamar Jackson’s passes were these wobbly, nose-down throws at high velocity, a pass which his receivers dropped a LOT last weekend?

  73. @ScarletNumber

    which 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach
     
    For some reason Steve has never written about Todd Marinovich, who was a 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach. He was also the nephew of Craig Fertig, former USC QB and Oregon State head coach.

    For some reason Steve has never written about Todd Marinovich, who was a 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach. He was also the nephew of Craig Fertig, former USC QB and Oregon State head coach.

    Marinovich….so tightly wound that if you stuck a lump of coal up his ass in a week you’d have a diamond!

    /hat tip Cameron Frye

  74. @Hapalong Cassidy
    Wilson started at NC State and was pretty good there. I think he transferred to Wisconsin because NCSU didn’t have good enough players to surround him with. Nonetheless he did lead them to an 8-win season his final year there. I saw a game where they lost and he was outdueled by Virginia Tech’s Tyrod Taylor (a similar player in style).

    Not quite correct. Wilson transferred because the head coach at NC State told him because he was going to go in a different direction at qb. Apparently the coach thought Wilson was too short to make it to the NFL.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    That's right -- I forgot about the Glennon thing. Glennon is 6' 6".
  75. @Walsh2
    At the end of his first year he took one hardest hits you'll ever see, got up, brushed himself off and took care of business. At that point his team was all in behind him. Over the off season Ogeron hired QB coach from NO Saints, Burrows had the entire off season to work with one of the best receiving corps in the game, and the rest is history.

    Burrows is certainly an interesting case study - his coach, moreso. Ogeron is a straight up coon ass. For those of you unfamiliar with southern pejoratives/terms of endearment(not mutually exclusive terms) a coon ass is an individual, white or black, from the backwoods of Louisiana. Regardless, Ogeron failed up in a spectacular fashion. He began as an assistant defensive line coach for some of the best team in the nation and has a very colorful history as a coach who players love. His first stint as a head coach he went 0-8 in the SEC at Ole Miss and got fired. He went to LSU as an assistant then took over as interim coach and was eventually hired as head coach. LSU fans were not happy with the hire. Despite being considered an idiot by many he had the foresight to realize that LSU's wide receivers were consistently the best in the nation and were being under used so he hired a coach from the Saints and turned him loose with the offense.

    Ogeron nature - about a 110 IQ + Ogeron nuture - Louisiana backwoods = National Championship and seven figure annual salary. Not bad for a coon ass.

    For those of you unfamiliar with southern pejoratives/terms of endearment(not mutually exclusive terms) a coon ass is an individual, white or black, from the backwoods of Louisiana.

    I worked with a dude like this. Pretty good, laid-back guy who has kind of failed his way through life.

    Regardless, Ogeron failed up in a spectacular fashion.

    Don’t totally agree with the idea he failed up.

    In 1988, [Orgeron] began his tenure with the University of Miami, under then-head coach Jimmy Johnson and his successor, Dennis Erickson. He was their defensive line coach for four of those years, in which he coached eight All-Americans (including NFL first-round draft choices Cortez Kennedy, Russell Maryland and Warren Sapp). While he was with the Hurricanes, the program won two national championships (in 1989 and 1991), and he recruited a young Dwayne Johnson (later known as “The Rock” in his professional wrestling and film careers) as a defensive lineman.

    Recruiting is huge in college football. Coaching one All-American could be construed as luck, but 8? That’s a trend.

    At USC, he won National Recruiter of the Year in 2004:

    During the Carroll years, USC enjoyed much success, including two (Associated Press) National Championships. Orgeron took on the added responsibility of Recruiting Coordinator in 2001, and was named assistant head coach in 2003.[5] Orgeron won National Recruiter of the Year honors in 2004, the same year he was hired by Ole Miss to replace head coach David Cutcliffe.

    I bet that Orgeron was involved in recruiting quite of few of the players on the 2003 and 2004 USC National Championship teams. This points to an ability to identify and recruit talent.

    Ole Miss was a huge comedown from USC and it’s no surprise he did not do well there. I do think he got a raw deal as the interim head coach at USC. I thought he did enough to earn one more year and avoid being pushed out by known drunk Steve Sarkisian.

    From Orgeron’s resume, I think it’s clear that he has certain abilities that he’s maximized to eventually land his dream job at LSU. He appears quite able to identify and recruit talent. He is probably a more hands-off, CEO style coach that leaves the Xs and Os to his coordinators.

    Congrats to Coach O, totally agree he’s doing great for a coon ass.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    known drunk Steve Sarkisian
     
    I remember Sarkisian went from USC to Washington to USC.
  76. @Desiderius
    I can’t remember if Drew Henson choosing baseball opened up the slot for Brady to play at all or how exactly that played out.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#College_career

    TL;DR – Brady was a backup behind walk-on Brian Griese (son of Bob Griese, two time Super Bowl winning QB for Miami) for his first two seasons, then held off local wunderkind Drew Henson to win the starting job in 1998 and 1999.

    Those of us on campus at the time were generally against Carr’s mandated first/second quarter platooning of Brady and Henson.

    We felt that if the guy on the field was playing well he should continue to play. The platoon system clearly disrupted in-game offensive momentum. It was believed that this led to more than a few avoidable losses during 1998 and 1999.

  77. The last LSU quarterback to win the BCS championship and get drafted number one was perhaps the greatest draft bust in NFL history who is actually more famous for publicizing purple drink than anything he ever did in an NFL game. Reportedly he could throw a football 60 yards on his knees.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JaMarcus_Russell

    Better luck for this guy but the Bungles are not a good sign for him.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Can you think of any differences between JaMarcus Russell and Joe Burrow?

    Also, in between was Matt Flynn, who was drafted in the 7th round by the Packers and won a Super Bowl as Aaron Rodgers' backup.

  78. Anonymous[157] • Disclaimer says:

    NFL quarterback position can only be dominated by black guys if the fix is — which is exactly what’s happening. So they try to block whites prospects at the college level. And they keep adjusting the game to accommodate the running QB.

    The pocket QB is the obviously superior weapon that wins Super Bowls. But pocket QB requires a particular wide ranging skillset that only whites possess. We have enough data to see the racial disparity. It is fascinating to watch the powers that be put up so many non-pocket passer QB variations — and still they are foiled.

    The point is to get Whitey out of the QB position. So half-black pocket guys will do (results are still poor) until they can fix it so that two Vince Young types are facing off in every Super Bowl.

    Everyone should realize that this Burrow championship performance was just another sickening demonstration of white power — in the eyes of the powers that be.

    THEY FINALLY GOT RID OF BRADY AND NOW THIS GUY APPEARS

    The Williams sisters’ coaching by their father taking them to domination of a previously very white sport suggests the right mentoring could produce superb black quarterbacks, if there were black males willing to accept the necessary discipline.

    • Replies: @keypusher
    NFL quarterback position can only be dominated by black guys if the fix is — which is exactly what’s happening. So they try to block whites prospects at the college level. And they keep adjusting the game to accommodate the running QB.

    This fix-is-in thing about black quarterbacks is one of the sillier themes in iSteve comment threads. Reality is the exact opposite: the fix has been in, alright, for decades, but in favor of white quarterbacks. Over the past 40 years, pro football has gotten massively blacker, but until recently quarterback remained a nearly all-white preserve. Why? Because rules favor the pocket passer. Beginning in 1978, rulemakers greatly expanded the range of permissible pass-blocking techniques for offensive lineman, while steadily restricting what defensive backs could do to receivers. More recently, they began limiting what defensive players could do to quarterbacks, with the result that Drew Brees and Tom Brady were able to remain at a high level longer than earlier generations of quarterbacks could dream of doing.

    Because of these rules, passing became steadily more important compared to running, and rewards flowed to QBs who could stand in the pocket, survey the field, and deliver an accurate throw. Compared to most other positions, blacks had no natural advantages at QB, and there was a historical bias towards white quarterbacks, so blacks continued to gravitate elsewhere on the field, and vice versa. You see the same phenomenon at other positions – it’s not as if there isn’t a single white athlete in America who can play cornerback in the NFL, but no one tries. Ditto with black placekickers and punters.

    Nor is superior intellect required to play the position. Dan Marino supposedly got a 16 on the Wonderlic, and is probably the greatest pure passer ever. Ryan Fitzpatrick went to Harvard and got (supposedly) a 48. He’s got a great personality and he wins at life. But he’s not a particularly good quarterback.

    In the past couple of years defenses have gotten better at defending the pass, and so running quarterbacks have come back into vogue. We’ll see if the trend lasts. If running continues to be a key part of the position, the black quarterback is here to stay. (For everyone crowing that only one black QB is left in the playoffs, note that Brady and Brees are done too. And of the four QBs remaining, three are terrific runners/scramblers.)

    Did the NFL favor white quarterbacks deliberately in the past? It’s possible. I think in previous decades NFL executives tended to see black dominance of the NBA as bad for that league’s business, and were glad that (almost always white) quarterbacks tended to be the faces of their franchises. As the country gets more diverse and the NFL, like everybody else, gets more woke, that may be changing.

  79. Burrow will be the first quarterback drafted, if not the first pick overall, and he certainly fits in the Andrew Luck mold — for some a “can’t miss” prospect. Tall, intelligent, great arm, and, as Steve has noted, a suitable genetic pedigree.

    But will he miss?

    Last night I watched the game with the ESPN coaches room — with 4 D1 coaches watching the game and commenting as plays were shown with the full field coaches view. Their dialogue was annoying as they talked over one another, and many times they made guesses about what was happening on the field and were wrong (although one of coaches, newly hired Boston College head coach, Jeff Hafley, seemed VERY smart).

    Anyway, Burrow made very big plays largely because the Clemson defense was poorly organized in the secondary and acted stupidly. They played mostly single high safety, typically rolled to the LSU’s left side, allowing Burrow to throw to the right on one on coverage all night long, mostly to Jamar Chase, who torched his one on one opposing cornerback. And whoever played safety for Clemson could not cover the ground necessary to help out on long throws. Any high school coach would have seen it, and so Burrow feasted.

    It won’t be same in the NFL

  80. @bomag
    I caught an NPR sports segment the other day. Big hand wringing over not enough Black coaches in the NFL. Lots of emotional labor. At one point, the (female) host gushed over how great Blacks are doing as quarterback in the NFL and used that to suggest that Blacks should fill a commensurate number of head coaching positions. I'm waiting for her to go to bat on behalf of more White defensive backs.

    Agree. I am also waiting for her to advocate for a commensurate number of Black sports anchors and reporters.

  81. @PaceLaw
    Well it turns out to be a rare win-win situation for all involved! Haskins was 1st round draft pick last year and Burrow will be the #1 overall draft pick after winning the national championship. Nobody can complain.
    Also Ohio State is not evil.

    I can’t think of a university in the US that’s not evil.

  82. @Anonymous
    NFL quarterback position can only be dominated by black guys if the fix is --- which is exactly what's happening. So they try to block whites prospects at the college level. And they keep adjusting the game to accommodate the running QB.

    The pocket QB is the obviously superior weapon that wins Super Bowls. But pocket QB requires a particular wide ranging skillset that only whites possess. We have enough data to see the racial disparity. It is fascinating to watch the powers that be put up so many non-pocket passer QB variations --- and still they are foiled.

    The point is to get Whitey out of the QB position. So half-black pocket guys will do (results are still poor) until they can fix it so that two Vince Young types are facing off in every Super Bowl.

    Everyone should realize that this Burrow championship performance was just another sickening demonstration of white power --- in the eyes of the powers that be.

    THEY FINALLY GOT RID OF BRADY AND NOW THIS GUY APPEARS

    The Williams sisters’ coaching by their father taking them to domination of a previously very white sport suggests the right mentoring could produce superb black quarterbacks, if there were black males willing to accept the necessary discipline.

    NFL quarterback position can only be dominated by black guys if the fix is — which is exactly what’s happening. So they try to block whites prospects at the college level. And they keep adjusting the game to accommodate the running QB.

    This fix-is-in thing about black quarterbacks is one of the sillier themes in iSteve comment threads. Reality is the exact opposite: the fix has been in, alright, for decades, but in favor of white quarterbacks. Over the past 40 years, pro football has gotten massively blacker, but until recently quarterback remained a nearly all-white preserve. Why? Because rules favor the pocket passer. Beginning in 1978, rulemakers greatly expanded the range of permissible pass-blocking techniques for offensive lineman, while steadily restricting what defensive backs could do to receivers. More recently, they began limiting what defensive players could do to quarterbacks, with the result that Drew Brees and Tom Brady were able to remain at a high level longer than earlier generations of quarterbacks could dream of doing.

    Because of these rules, passing became steadily more important compared to running, and rewards flowed to QBs who could stand in the pocket, survey the field, and deliver an accurate throw. Compared to most other positions, blacks had no natural advantages at QB, and there was a historical bias towards white quarterbacks, so blacks continued to gravitate elsewhere on the field, and vice versa. You see the same phenomenon at other positions – it’s not as if there isn’t a single white athlete in America who can play cornerback in the NFL, but no one tries. Ditto with black placekickers and punters.

    Nor is superior intellect required to play the position. Dan Marino supposedly got a 16 on the Wonderlic, and is probably the greatest pure passer ever. Ryan Fitzpatrick went to Harvard and got (supposedly) a 48. He’s got a great personality and he wins at life. But he’s not a particularly good quarterback.

    In the past couple of years defenses have gotten better at defending the pass, and so running quarterbacks have come back into vogue. We’ll see if the trend lasts. If running continues to be a key part of the position, the black quarterback is here to stay. (For everyone crowing that only one black QB is left in the playoffs, note that Brady and Brees are done too. And of the four QBs remaining, three are terrific runners/scramblers.)

    Did the NFL favor white quarterbacks deliberately in the past? It’s possible. I think in previous decades NFL executives tended to see black dominance of the NBA as bad for that league’s business, and were glad that (almost always white) quarterbacks tended to be the faces of their franchises. As the country gets more diverse and the NFL, like everybody else, gets more woke, that may be changing.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I think Tom Brady missing the 2008 season with an injury got the NFL serious about not having star quarterbacks driven from the league by injuries like, say, Steve Young retired after relatively few years. So they've gotten an incredible run from Brady, almost as good a one from Brees, and Peyton Manning lasted long enough to win a second Super Bowl.

    Players are starting to retire earlier with their millions, and they lost Andrew Luck and the top white non-QB Gronkowski. But the star QBs march onwards, finally this year starting to age out.

    , @Walsh2
    It's seems as if it's starting to revert back to basic strategy employed by youth and high school coaches across the country, i.e. get the ball in the hands of the best athlete on the field. In a nutshell that's the what the offense of Baltimore Ravens was. Far from being revolutionary, it's a variation of damn near every high school offense in the nation - that guy's the best out there, get him the ball.
    , @Desiderius
    +2 SD trend piece. Off on several edges.
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    "This fix-is-in thing about black quarterbacks is one of the sillier themes in iSteve comment threads. Reality is the exact opposite: the fix has been in, alright, for decades, but in favor of white quarterbacks. "

    Your observations of this phenomenon are incorrect.

    The NFL has for decades favored the pocket passer, because the NFL wants long passing plays that are exciting and create more interest among casual fans. The fact that the best pocket passers have always been the white guys is a troublesome reality for the NFL, and it has tried just about everything short of banning white QBs in order to close the achievement gap between the two types of QB. The NFL is desperate for black QB's to succeed. Even Steve is to some extent. (He called 2019 the year of the black QB, but going into the conference championships this weekend the only black QB left is the one who is half white. )

    So all of the rules you cite are not meant to protect white QBs per say, but to facilitate a big play passing extravaganza. The NFL rule structure incentivizes QBs to not run, because that is where they suffer more injuries.

    Colleges recruit freakish black athletes to play QB because their athleticism is greater than most of the defenders they are going to face so that is to their advantage. However, once they reach the NFL, where the defensive talent is filtered through a significant bottleneck, these black QBs find themselves competing against defenders who are not only equal or greater athletes than they are, but have the best instincts/football IQ from all of college football. So they find themselves in the NFL trying to learn how to be a pocket passer and not get killed in the open field. The results have proven to be terrible for the black QB in general, as only 2* have managed to win a Superbowl.

    *Doug Williams in a strike shortened year was a bottom third level QB who got lucky, and Russel Wilson who happens to be 33% white.
    , @Bernie
    It is not silly to believe that coaches and recruiters favor black athletes because they think they are superior athletes. In big football states like Texas, Pennsylvania and Ohio, white high schols routinely defeat black high schools for football championships. Yet the whites are not as heavily recruited as the blacks or are moved to caste positions -- white corners become safeties, white running backs become tight ends, white D-linemen get moved to O-line.

    I have talked to former white college and pro players and to a man they note that blacks lobby their coaches for their friends. "You just playin' the white guy over Travarious because you aint want a black QB." "You just starting a white linebacker over Demarcus 'cuz you aint want an all black defense."
    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    Perhaps it has escaped your notice that run first quarterbacks don't have long careers in the NFL.

    When you have a legitimate starting quarterback, one of your priorities is to end as few plays with your quarterback making contact with the other teams' players as is possible. Starting quarterbacks also command salary premiums, many with guaranteed money, so having an oft-injured quarterback clogging your salary cap is a recipe for fielding a non-competitive team for years into the future.

    There have been prior trends of the "dual threat" quarterback, and they always tend to end in injury and disappointment. Then the league reverts back to the pocket passing quarterback.

    The only modern dual threat quarterback who plays his run option with the appropriate discretion (and stays healthy because of it) is Russell Wilson, and his passing from the pocket is really good anyway. He has preternatural pocket awareness, and really scrambles when the pocket is just about to collapse on him anyway.
  83. @Bill P
    Middle-aged female NPR hosts have been doing lots of gushing over young black men lately. That's just about all I hear on that station these days.

    It's a little unseemly, kind of like those older ladies who go to Jamaica to find gigolos.

    In Search of the Big Bamboo.

    It was from the old lefty Utne Reader iirc.

  84. OT

    Sacrificing their young girls to sexual butchery now seems ‘second nature’ to the English:

    Fears over race relations affected police probe into child sex grooming gang, report suggests — Investigation identified 57 potential victims and 97 suspects in Manchester – but almost no action taken amid fears of inciting racial hatred

    Dozens of teenage girls suspected of being groomed and abused in Manchester by gangs of men from Asian backgrounds were failed because police feared upsetting race relations, a new probe has suggested.

    Victims repeatedly alerted officers about sexual assaults, giving names and addresses of those involved, but, in almost all cases, no action was taken.

    Now, a bombshell report suggests Greater Manchester Police and the city council shelved an investigation into what was happening at least partially because of the “many sensitive community issues” they felt faced with.

    “Concerns were expressed about the risk of proactive tactics or the incitement of racial hatred,” the 145-page independent review states.

  85. @keypusher
    NFL quarterback position can only be dominated by black guys if the fix is — which is exactly what’s happening. So they try to block whites prospects at the college level. And they keep adjusting the game to accommodate the running QB.

    This fix-is-in thing about black quarterbacks is one of the sillier themes in iSteve comment threads. Reality is the exact opposite: the fix has been in, alright, for decades, but in favor of white quarterbacks. Over the past 40 years, pro football has gotten massively blacker, but until recently quarterback remained a nearly all-white preserve. Why? Because rules favor the pocket passer. Beginning in 1978, rulemakers greatly expanded the range of permissible pass-blocking techniques for offensive lineman, while steadily restricting what defensive backs could do to receivers. More recently, they began limiting what defensive players could do to quarterbacks, with the result that Drew Brees and Tom Brady were able to remain at a high level longer than earlier generations of quarterbacks could dream of doing.

    Because of these rules, passing became steadily more important compared to running, and rewards flowed to QBs who could stand in the pocket, survey the field, and deliver an accurate throw. Compared to most other positions, blacks had no natural advantages at QB, and there was a historical bias towards white quarterbacks, so blacks continued to gravitate elsewhere on the field, and vice versa. You see the same phenomenon at other positions – it’s not as if there isn’t a single white athlete in America who can play cornerback in the NFL, but no one tries. Ditto with black placekickers and punters.

    Nor is superior intellect required to play the position. Dan Marino supposedly got a 16 on the Wonderlic, and is probably the greatest pure passer ever. Ryan Fitzpatrick went to Harvard and got (supposedly) a 48. He’s got a great personality and he wins at life. But he’s not a particularly good quarterback.

    In the past couple of years defenses have gotten better at defending the pass, and so running quarterbacks have come back into vogue. We’ll see if the trend lasts. If running continues to be a key part of the position, the black quarterback is here to stay. (For everyone crowing that only one black QB is left in the playoffs, note that Brady and Brees are done too. And of the four QBs remaining, three are terrific runners/scramblers.)

    Did the NFL favor white quarterbacks deliberately in the past? It’s possible. I think in previous decades NFL executives tended to see black dominance of the NBA as bad for that league’s business, and were glad that (almost always white) quarterbacks tended to be the faces of their franchises. As the country gets more diverse and the NFL, like everybody else, gets more woke, that may be changing.

    I think Tom Brady missing the 2008 season with an injury got the NFL serious about not having star quarterbacks driven from the league by injuries like, say, Steve Young retired after relatively few years. So they’ve gotten an incredible run from Brady, almost as good a one from Brees, and Peyton Manning lasted long enough to win a second Super Bowl.

    Players are starting to retire earlier with their millions, and they lost Andrew Luck and the top white non-QB Gronkowski. But the star QBs march onwards, finally this year starting to age out.

  86. @vinny
    So despite Burrow being older, money made from playing football:

    Jackson: $10 million
    Burrow: $0

    And y'all say whites are smarter than blacks.

    Please circle back in 15 years and tell us how much of that $10mm Lamar still has.

  87. @Anonymous
    Burrow has stated unequivocally he will not play in Cincinnati.

    Good move not choosing that pseudonym yet. Better to wait until you’ve got something to contribute.

  88. @keypusher
    NFL quarterback position can only be dominated by black guys if the fix is — which is exactly what’s happening. So they try to block whites prospects at the college level. And they keep adjusting the game to accommodate the running QB.

    This fix-is-in thing about black quarterbacks is one of the sillier themes in iSteve comment threads. Reality is the exact opposite: the fix has been in, alright, for decades, but in favor of white quarterbacks. Over the past 40 years, pro football has gotten massively blacker, but until recently quarterback remained a nearly all-white preserve. Why? Because rules favor the pocket passer. Beginning in 1978, rulemakers greatly expanded the range of permissible pass-blocking techniques for offensive lineman, while steadily restricting what defensive backs could do to receivers. More recently, they began limiting what defensive players could do to quarterbacks, with the result that Drew Brees and Tom Brady were able to remain at a high level longer than earlier generations of quarterbacks could dream of doing.

    Because of these rules, passing became steadily more important compared to running, and rewards flowed to QBs who could stand in the pocket, survey the field, and deliver an accurate throw. Compared to most other positions, blacks had no natural advantages at QB, and there was a historical bias towards white quarterbacks, so blacks continued to gravitate elsewhere on the field, and vice versa. You see the same phenomenon at other positions – it’s not as if there isn’t a single white athlete in America who can play cornerback in the NFL, but no one tries. Ditto with black placekickers and punters.

    Nor is superior intellect required to play the position. Dan Marino supposedly got a 16 on the Wonderlic, and is probably the greatest pure passer ever. Ryan Fitzpatrick went to Harvard and got (supposedly) a 48. He’s got a great personality and he wins at life. But he’s not a particularly good quarterback.

    In the past couple of years defenses have gotten better at defending the pass, and so running quarterbacks have come back into vogue. We’ll see if the trend lasts. If running continues to be a key part of the position, the black quarterback is here to stay. (For everyone crowing that only one black QB is left in the playoffs, note that Brady and Brees are done too. And of the four QBs remaining, three are terrific runners/scramblers.)

    Did the NFL favor white quarterbacks deliberately in the past? It’s possible. I think in previous decades NFL executives tended to see black dominance of the NBA as bad for that league’s business, and were glad that (almost always white) quarterbacks tended to be the faces of their franchises. As the country gets more diverse and the NFL, like everybody else, gets more woke, that may be changing.

    It’s seems as if it’s starting to revert back to basic strategy employed by youth and high school coaches across the country, i.e. get the ball in the hands of the best athlete on the field. In a nutshell that’s the what the offense of Baltimore Ravens was. Far from being revolutionary, it’s a variation of damn near every high school offense in the nation – that guy’s the best out there, get him the ball.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Winning Pop Warner football strategy for 11 year olds: snap the ball to the best athlete at quarterback and let him do his thing.
  89. @keypusher
    NFL quarterback position can only be dominated by black guys if the fix is — which is exactly what’s happening. So they try to block whites prospects at the college level. And they keep adjusting the game to accommodate the running QB.

    This fix-is-in thing about black quarterbacks is one of the sillier themes in iSteve comment threads. Reality is the exact opposite: the fix has been in, alright, for decades, but in favor of white quarterbacks. Over the past 40 years, pro football has gotten massively blacker, but until recently quarterback remained a nearly all-white preserve. Why? Because rules favor the pocket passer. Beginning in 1978, rulemakers greatly expanded the range of permissible pass-blocking techniques for offensive lineman, while steadily restricting what defensive backs could do to receivers. More recently, they began limiting what defensive players could do to quarterbacks, with the result that Drew Brees and Tom Brady were able to remain at a high level longer than earlier generations of quarterbacks could dream of doing.

    Because of these rules, passing became steadily more important compared to running, and rewards flowed to QBs who could stand in the pocket, survey the field, and deliver an accurate throw. Compared to most other positions, blacks had no natural advantages at QB, and there was a historical bias towards white quarterbacks, so blacks continued to gravitate elsewhere on the field, and vice versa. You see the same phenomenon at other positions – it’s not as if there isn’t a single white athlete in America who can play cornerback in the NFL, but no one tries. Ditto with black placekickers and punters.

    Nor is superior intellect required to play the position. Dan Marino supposedly got a 16 on the Wonderlic, and is probably the greatest pure passer ever. Ryan Fitzpatrick went to Harvard and got (supposedly) a 48. He’s got a great personality and he wins at life. But he’s not a particularly good quarterback.

    In the past couple of years defenses have gotten better at defending the pass, and so running quarterbacks have come back into vogue. We’ll see if the trend lasts. If running continues to be a key part of the position, the black quarterback is here to stay. (For everyone crowing that only one black QB is left in the playoffs, note that Brady and Brees are done too. And of the four QBs remaining, three are terrific runners/scramblers.)

    Did the NFL favor white quarterbacks deliberately in the past? It’s possible. I think in previous decades NFL executives tended to see black dominance of the NBA as bad for that league’s business, and were glad that (almost always white) quarterbacks tended to be the faces of their franchises. As the country gets more diverse and the NFL, like everybody else, gets more woke, that may be changing.

    +2 SD trend piece. Off on several edges.

  90. @vinny
    So despite Burrow being older, money made from playing football:

    Jackson: $10 million
    Burrow: $0

    And y'all say whites are smarter than blacks.

  91. Shouldn’t we be demanding vigorous affirmative action in the NFL with regard to race, ethnicity, religion, gender and sexual orientation? In all professional sports? Full diversity and inclusion? Proportional representation by bureaucratic mandate?

  92. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    How many pro basketball players have had mentoring fathers? That would be much more revealing.
     
    I think that there probably was a period during the 70s-80s when a good number of professional basketball players were not the product of doting parents (this, I think, was the way things were then for a lot of things). But there also used to be informal or less formal basketball associations in big cities where kids could play some version of organized basketball a lot and all year round. In Philadelphia, Sonny Hill still has a Sunday morning radio show on the sports talk channel, and he often reminisces about playing in these informal associations with local and nationally renowned players including Wilt Chamberlain. According to Hill, they'd even take trains up to NYC to find worthy competition.

    Now, the money in professional basketball is exponentially greater than it was in the 70s, while the informal associations have dried up and been replaced with AAU and travel teams which require investments in time and money for young players. This obviously favors the better off financially, while politics to get on a team and get playing time probably also factor in. If your dad was even just a journeyman in the NBA, you will inherit some natural gifts (probably height and athleticism) but also a network and an advocate as well as the perception that you have potential that you may or may not possess.

    It does seem, as Steve has observed, that the NBA is composed of many more second generation players than before . . .

    Jalen Rose is Jimmy Walker’s son, but Walker was an absentee father. All genes, aside from his mother and coaches’ nurturing.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    DY-NO-MITE
  93. @Walsh2
    It's seems as if it's starting to revert back to basic strategy employed by youth and high school coaches across the country, i.e. get the ball in the hands of the best athlete on the field. In a nutshell that's the what the offense of Baltimore Ravens was. Far from being revolutionary, it's a variation of damn near every high school offense in the nation - that guy's the best out there, get him the ball.

    Winning Pop Warner football strategy for 11 year olds: snap the ball to the best athlete at quarterback and let him do his thing.

  94. @keypusher
    NFL quarterback position can only be dominated by black guys if the fix is — which is exactly what’s happening. So they try to block whites prospects at the college level. And they keep adjusting the game to accommodate the running QB.

    This fix-is-in thing about black quarterbacks is one of the sillier themes in iSteve comment threads. Reality is the exact opposite: the fix has been in, alright, for decades, but in favor of white quarterbacks. Over the past 40 years, pro football has gotten massively blacker, but until recently quarterback remained a nearly all-white preserve. Why? Because rules favor the pocket passer. Beginning in 1978, rulemakers greatly expanded the range of permissible pass-blocking techniques for offensive lineman, while steadily restricting what defensive backs could do to receivers. More recently, they began limiting what defensive players could do to quarterbacks, with the result that Drew Brees and Tom Brady were able to remain at a high level longer than earlier generations of quarterbacks could dream of doing.

    Because of these rules, passing became steadily more important compared to running, and rewards flowed to QBs who could stand in the pocket, survey the field, and deliver an accurate throw. Compared to most other positions, blacks had no natural advantages at QB, and there was a historical bias towards white quarterbacks, so blacks continued to gravitate elsewhere on the field, and vice versa. You see the same phenomenon at other positions – it’s not as if there isn’t a single white athlete in America who can play cornerback in the NFL, but no one tries. Ditto with black placekickers and punters.

    Nor is superior intellect required to play the position. Dan Marino supposedly got a 16 on the Wonderlic, and is probably the greatest pure passer ever. Ryan Fitzpatrick went to Harvard and got (supposedly) a 48. He’s got a great personality and he wins at life. But he’s not a particularly good quarterback.

    In the past couple of years defenses have gotten better at defending the pass, and so running quarterbacks have come back into vogue. We’ll see if the trend lasts. If running continues to be a key part of the position, the black quarterback is here to stay. (For everyone crowing that only one black QB is left in the playoffs, note that Brady and Brees are done too. And of the four QBs remaining, three are terrific runners/scramblers.)

    Did the NFL favor white quarterbacks deliberately in the past? It’s possible. I think in previous decades NFL executives tended to see black dominance of the NBA as bad for that league’s business, and were glad that (almost always white) quarterbacks tended to be the faces of their franchises. As the country gets more diverse and the NFL, like everybody else, gets more woke, that may be changing.

    “This fix-is-in thing about black quarterbacks is one of the sillier themes in iSteve comment threads. Reality is the exact opposite: the fix has been in, alright, for decades, but in favor of white quarterbacks. ”

    Your observations of this phenomenon are incorrect.

    The NFL has for decades favored the pocket passer, because the NFL wants long passing plays that are exciting and create more interest among casual fans. The fact that the best pocket passers have always been the white guys is a troublesome reality for the NFL, and it has tried just about everything short of banning white QBs in order to close the achievement gap between the two types of QB. The NFL is desperate for black QB’s to succeed. Even Steve is to some extent. (He called 2019 the year of the black QB, but going into the conference championships this weekend the only black QB left is the one who is half white. )

    So all of the rules you cite are not meant to protect white QBs per say, but to facilitate a big play passing extravaganza. The NFL rule structure incentivizes QBs to not run, because that is where they suffer more injuries.

    Colleges recruit freakish black athletes to play QB because their athleticism is greater than most of the defenders they are going to face so that is to their advantage. However, once they reach the NFL, where the defensive talent is filtered through a significant bottleneck, these black QBs find themselves competing against defenders who are not only equal or greater athletes than they are, but have the best instincts/football IQ from all of college football. So they find themselves in the NFL trying to learn how to be a pocket passer and not get killed in the open field. The results have proven to be terrible for the black QB in general, as only 2* have managed to win a Superbowl.

    *Doug Williams in a strike shortened year was a bottom third level QB who got lucky, and Russel Wilson who happens to be 33% white.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    So they find themselves in the NFL trying to learn how to be a pocket passer and not get killed in the open field. The results have proven to be terrible for the black QB in general, as only 2* have managed to win a Superbowl.
     
    Cam Newton and RG3 are done. Lamar Jackson and Deshawn Watson may not be far behind if they don't change their ways.

    Russel Wilson slides at the end of his runs. Brady and Rogers go down quickly when sacked.
    , @Keypusher
    The NFL has for decades favored the pocket passer, because the NFL wants long passing plays that are exciting and create more interest among casual fans.....So all of the rules you cite are not meant to protect white QBs per say, but to facilitate a big play passing extravaganza.

    Go find a graph of average yards per completion from the 1960s to now. And then hang your head in shame for having absolutely no clue what you’re talking about.

    Lamar Jackson on a good day is as exciting as football gets, unless you can’t stand black quarterbacks.

  95. My nephew is 14 (8th grade) and already is 6’2, 250. He is projected to be about 6’5 and his frame could support 300lbs. Think JJ Watt or Nick Bosa. He already dominates his football games and wrestling matches despite being new at both sports.

    I have already told him about the caste system in sports and will warn him away from colleges that rarely play whites when he starts getting recruited. He loves defensive line (nose tackle) though he gets played on the offensive line for now as well.

    I have told him to stay away from any schools that will try to talk him into playing O-line rather than D-line. Whites are routinely steered away from their positions if they are reserved for blacks. Hence, white high school corners are turned into safeties in college. White running backs and receivers put on a few pounds and become tight ends or even full backs.

    Trouble is, fewer and fewer top schools even give whites a chance. Or if they do they keep them as bench warmers and back-ups. Clemson started 8-9 whites throughout the season and had many white backups. I will certainly push my nephew to consider Clemson if the same coach is there in 5 years. If the SEC comes calling I will show him the starting lineups and ask him if he really feels he will be given a fair chance to play at schools like LSU, Alabama, Florida and Georgia.

  96. @keypusher
    NFL quarterback position can only be dominated by black guys if the fix is — which is exactly what’s happening. So they try to block whites prospects at the college level. And they keep adjusting the game to accommodate the running QB.

    This fix-is-in thing about black quarterbacks is one of the sillier themes in iSteve comment threads. Reality is the exact opposite: the fix has been in, alright, for decades, but in favor of white quarterbacks. Over the past 40 years, pro football has gotten massively blacker, but until recently quarterback remained a nearly all-white preserve. Why? Because rules favor the pocket passer. Beginning in 1978, rulemakers greatly expanded the range of permissible pass-blocking techniques for offensive lineman, while steadily restricting what defensive backs could do to receivers. More recently, they began limiting what defensive players could do to quarterbacks, with the result that Drew Brees and Tom Brady were able to remain at a high level longer than earlier generations of quarterbacks could dream of doing.

    Because of these rules, passing became steadily more important compared to running, and rewards flowed to QBs who could stand in the pocket, survey the field, and deliver an accurate throw. Compared to most other positions, blacks had no natural advantages at QB, and there was a historical bias towards white quarterbacks, so blacks continued to gravitate elsewhere on the field, and vice versa. You see the same phenomenon at other positions – it’s not as if there isn’t a single white athlete in America who can play cornerback in the NFL, but no one tries. Ditto with black placekickers and punters.

    Nor is superior intellect required to play the position. Dan Marino supposedly got a 16 on the Wonderlic, and is probably the greatest pure passer ever. Ryan Fitzpatrick went to Harvard and got (supposedly) a 48. He’s got a great personality and he wins at life. But he’s not a particularly good quarterback.

    In the past couple of years defenses have gotten better at defending the pass, and so running quarterbacks have come back into vogue. We’ll see if the trend lasts. If running continues to be a key part of the position, the black quarterback is here to stay. (For everyone crowing that only one black QB is left in the playoffs, note that Brady and Brees are done too. And of the four QBs remaining, three are terrific runners/scramblers.)

    Did the NFL favor white quarterbacks deliberately in the past? It’s possible. I think in previous decades NFL executives tended to see black dominance of the NBA as bad for that league’s business, and were glad that (almost always white) quarterbacks tended to be the faces of their franchises. As the country gets more diverse and the NFL, like everybody else, gets more woke, that may be changing.

    It is not silly to believe that coaches and recruiters favor black athletes because they think they are superior athletes. In big football states like Texas, Pennsylvania and Ohio, white high schols routinely defeat black high schools for football championships. Yet the whites are not as heavily recruited as the blacks or are moved to caste positions — white corners become safeties, white running backs become tight ends, white D-linemen get moved to O-line.

    I have talked to former white college and pro players and to a man they note that blacks lobby their coaches for their friends. “You just playin’ the white guy over Travarious because you aint want a black QB.” “You just starting a white linebacker over Demarcus ‘cuz you aint want an all black defense.”

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    white running backs become tight ends

    This seems highly unlikely. The avg. height for a running back in the nfl is '5"10.5, the avg. height for a tight end is '6 "4 . The height requirements are almost mutually exclusive. There are only 3 RBs (all black as it happens) as tall as '6 "3, there only 3 TEs (one of whom is white) as short as "6 "2

    , @Keypusher
    It is not silly to believe that coaches and recruiters favor black athletes because they think they are superior athletes.

    Agree. What’s silly is to believe that they’re not superior athletes overall, at least in the attributes that make for success at football and basketball. Or is the next Olympics when we’re finally going to see a bunch of white sprinters on the medal stand?
  97. Anonymous[162] • Disclaimer says:

    Ryan Fitzpatrick went to Harvard and got (supposedly) a 48. He’s got a great personality and he wins at life. But he’s not a particularly good quarterback.

    Ryan Fitzpatrick is a damn good QB who has very impressive career stats considering he has never played for a quality franchise.

    Career stats:

    https://www.footballdb.com/players/ryan-fitzpatrick-fitzpry01

    He’s tied with Troy Aikman for 61st place all time QB rating list:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_career_passer_rating_leaders

    Fitzpatrick is one of those very talented players that never got to a playoff game. All team sports have these guys stuck with bad franchises. There’s actually still time for him to win a superbowl he’s had very good recent seasons despite getting beat up…

    People forget but Walter Payton played almost his entire career in Barry Sanders style obscurity…

  98. Anonymous[162] • Disclaimer says:

    People shocked by 2019 breakout Ryan Tannehil but he has elite CAREER quarterback rating! …ranked #19 despite being trapped in Miami football franchise hell for all of those years.

    Imagine if Tannehil was starting in New England for those years.

    Pocket passer QBs need the right owner, coach, system and obviously offensive line and receivers. Otherwise they can die on the vine.

    One thing about great running QBs they really don’t need all of the above to have success. At least during the regular season…

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  99. @Bill P
    Middle-aged female NPR hosts have been doing lots of gushing over young black men lately. That's just about all I hear on that station these days.

    It's a little unseemly, kind of like those older ladies who go to Jamaica to find gigolos.

    White women are the eternal enemy of White men. In a diverse environment. They’ve been trying to replace us since 1950. At least.

    Islam is right about women.

  100. @prime noticer
    "as Malcolm Gladwell pointed out in the late 2000s, it’s not easy to figure out exactly which 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach or a successful businessman is going to succeed at quarterback."

    well, you just have them play, and the game sorts them out. that's the point of the game. it sorts.

    "Burrow, for example, couldn’t crack the starting line-up at Ohio State."

    yeah, i think we know why that was. Ohio State only plays one kind of player.

    not as bad as Aaron Rodgers getting almost zero offers, but it's part of the usual trend.

    if they can't get these guys out of the game by competition, they'll get them out by not even letting them play at all. they've been doing this at other positions for years. now it's time for the quarterbacks.

    the wrench in the works is that there are 100 teams in FBS, and 32 teams in NFL, so 1 or 2 teams might take a chance on these guys.

    Yup.

  101. @ScarletNumber

    which 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach
     
    For some reason Steve has never written about Todd Marinovich, who was a 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach. He was also the nephew of Craig Fertig, former USC QB and Oregon State head coach.

    All I remember about him is what a complete bust he was.

    I just checked wikipedia for the hell of it though, and it had this quote from a Sports Illustrated article:

    He has never eaten a Big Mac or an Oreo or a Ding Dong. When he went to birthday parties as a kid, he would take his own cake and ice cream to avoid sugar and refined white flour. He would eat homemade catsup, prepared with honey. He did consume beef but not the kind injected with hormones. He ate only unprocessed dairy products. He teethed on frozen kidney and liver.

    Damn, kid was paleo before it was cool.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    He has never eaten a Big Mac or an Oreo or a Ding Dong. When he went to birthday parties as a kid, he would take his own cake and ice cream to avoid sugar and refined white flour.

    None of it was true though. His grandparents gave him lots of junk food when his dad ,the football coach, wasn't around. His father was the original father from hell.Really tragic life.

    , @Bostonvegas
    Believe much of the restrictions were overhyped ...heard hes actually pretty nice guy ...socal guy i heard was a jerk was rob johnson who i was already biased againt for wade starting him over flutie against titans.
  102. Joe Burrow looks quite a bit like F. Scott Fitzgerald.

    Just when I thought non-white quarterbacks were taking over, Joe Burrow and Trevor Lawrence show up. Meanwhile Tua Tagovailoa the previous college phenom gets his hip crushed and Lamar Jackson the NFL phenom crashes out of the Playoffs.

    If Green Bay loses this weekend the Super Bowl will be intense and entertaining.

  103. @nymom
    Yes, I had heard that depression is hereditary...as are various other mental disorders. Even more reason to be very selective in who you marry and/or have children with as many people seem very careless today about picking a mate...

    many people seem very careless today about picking a mate

    Today? This has been going on since arranged marriages went out of style. The book Smart Women Foolish Choices was first published in 1986, and I doubt it was the first on that subject.

    I know a woman who, by the time she was 40 (27 years ago) had been married three times and lived with three others for around two years each. That’s six men she could have had kids with.

    Two of them were really impressive guys; either or both might be billionaires today. She didn’t have a kid with either of them.

    Three of them were solid, successful professionals. She didn’t have a kid with any of them.

    One was an alcoholic, cocaine-addicted high school dropout. That’s the father of her only child. And sure enough, the kid (now 33) is homeless, unemployed, and back to using meth after five trips to rehab.

  104. Which ones will succeed? Easy. The ones who can get a BA in three years.

  105. @Hannah Katz
    Thinking that both Nebraska and Ohio State are feeling kind of stupid now. They would like to say they prefer a quarterback who can run well (like a halfback who can throw well?) but if you saw Burrow scramble you know better. Burrow was one of only two white starters on the LSU team (also the right tackle on offense) but he won over the team with his leadership and performances. Seems most players like to win and win big. In some cases even over tribal affiliation.

    Expect Burrow to play in the NFL like a young Tom Brady, only with better scrambling ability.

    Thinking that both Nebraska and Ohio State are feeling kind of stupid now. They would like to say they prefer a quarterback who can run well (like a halfback who can throw well?) but if you saw Burrow scramble you know better. Burrow was one of only two white starters on the LSU team (also the right tackle on offense) but he won over the team with his leadership and performances. Seems most players like to win and win big. In some cases even over tribal affiliation.

    Of course, in ’03 LSU’s championship team also had just two white starters: a safety and the tailback.

    • Replies: @OFWHAP

    Of course, in ’03 LSU’s championship team also had just two white starters: a safety and the tailback.
     
    You're thinking of LSU's 2007 team, featuring Jacob Hester at running back and Craig Steltz at safety. However you forgot about Matt Flynn, the starting quarterback. LSU's 2003 team featured white QB, Matt Mauck, and white safety, Jack Hunt. However there were other white starters on the offensive and maybe defensive lines.
  106. @Walsh2
    At the end of his first year he took one hardest hits you'll ever see, got up, brushed himself off and took care of business. At that point his team was all in behind him. Over the off season Ogeron hired QB coach from NO Saints, Burrows had the entire off season to work with one of the best receiving corps in the game, and the rest is history.

    Burrows is certainly an interesting case study - his coach, moreso. Ogeron is a straight up coon ass. For those of you unfamiliar with southern pejoratives/terms of endearment(not mutually exclusive terms) a coon ass is an individual, white or black, from the backwoods of Louisiana. Regardless, Ogeron failed up in a spectacular fashion. He began as an assistant defensive line coach for some of the best team in the nation and has a very colorful history as a coach who players love. His first stint as a head coach he went 0-8 in the SEC at Ole Miss and got fired. He went to LSU as an assistant then took over as interim coach and was eventually hired as head coach. LSU fans were not happy with the hire. Despite being considered an idiot by many he had the foresight to realize that LSU's wide receivers were consistently the best in the nation and were being under used so he hired a coach from the Saints and turned him loose with the offense.

    Ogeron nature - about a 110 IQ + Ogeron nuture - Louisiana backwoods = National Championship and seven figure annual salary. Not bad for a coon ass.

    Burrows is certainly an interesting case study – his coach, moreso. Ogeron is a straight up coon ass. For those of you unfamiliar with southern pejoratives/terms of endearment(not mutually exclusive terms) a coon ass is an individual, white or black, from the backwoods of Louisiana.

    A coonass is a Cajun. A coonass is white.

  107. @Bernie
    It is not silly to believe that coaches and recruiters favor black athletes because they think they are superior athletes. In big football states like Texas, Pennsylvania and Ohio, white high schols routinely defeat black high schools for football championships. Yet the whites are not as heavily recruited as the blacks or are moved to caste positions -- white corners become safeties, white running backs become tight ends, white D-linemen get moved to O-line.

    I have talked to former white college and pro players and to a man they note that blacks lobby their coaches for their friends. "You just playin' the white guy over Travarious because you aint want a black QB." "You just starting a white linebacker over Demarcus 'cuz you aint want an all black defense."

    white running backs become tight ends

    This seems highly unlikely. The avg. height for a running back in the nfl is ‘5″10.5, the avg. height for a tight end is ‘6 “4 . The height requirements are almost mutually exclusive. There are only 3 RBs (all black as it happens) as tall as ‘6 “3, there only 3 TEs (one of whom is white) as short as “6 “2

  108. @Desiderius
    Columbus is where we quarantine all our globalists, so that’s only natural. And it still took a determined effort by a replay booth official to hand them their only loss of the season. Tells you how great the rest of the state is.

    The call on the field was wrong, and the team of replay officials were asked to review the play de novo. They got the call right.

  109. @silviosilver
    All I remember about him is what a complete bust he was.

    I just checked wikipedia for the hell of it though, and it had this quote from a Sports Illustrated article:

    He has never eaten a Big Mac or an Oreo or a Ding Dong. When he went to birthday parties as a kid, he would take his own cake and ice cream to avoid sugar and refined white flour. He would eat homemade catsup, prepared with honey. He did consume beef but not the kind injected with hormones. He ate only unprocessed dairy products. He teethed on frozen kidney and liver.
     
    Damn, kid was paleo before it was cool.

    He has never eaten a Big Mac or an Oreo or a Ding Dong. When he went to birthday parties as a kid, he would take his own cake and ice cream to avoid sugar and refined white flour.

    None of it was true though. His grandparents gave him lots of junk food when his dad ,the football coach, wasn’t around. His father was the original father from hell.Really tragic life.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    Every time I hear that "original...from hell" line, it makes me think of the Simpsons episode when the show-within-a-show tries to introduce the new character into Itchy and Scratchy:

    "We're talking the original dog from hell!"

    "You mean Cerberus?"

  110. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "This fix-is-in thing about black quarterbacks is one of the sillier themes in iSteve comment threads. Reality is the exact opposite: the fix has been in, alright, for decades, but in favor of white quarterbacks. "

    Your observations of this phenomenon are incorrect.

    The NFL has for decades favored the pocket passer, because the NFL wants long passing plays that are exciting and create more interest among casual fans. The fact that the best pocket passers have always been the white guys is a troublesome reality for the NFL, and it has tried just about everything short of banning white QBs in order to close the achievement gap between the two types of QB. The NFL is desperate for black QB's to succeed. Even Steve is to some extent. (He called 2019 the year of the black QB, but going into the conference championships this weekend the only black QB left is the one who is half white. )

    So all of the rules you cite are not meant to protect white QBs per say, but to facilitate a big play passing extravaganza. The NFL rule structure incentivizes QBs to not run, because that is where they suffer more injuries.

    Colleges recruit freakish black athletes to play QB because their athleticism is greater than most of the defenders they are going to face so that is to their advantage. However, once they reach the NFL, where the defensive talent is filtered through a significant bottleneck, these black QBs find themselves competing against defenders who are not only equal or greater athletes than they are, but have the best instincts/football IQ from all of college football. So they find themselves in the NFL trying to learn how to be a pocket passer and not get killed in the open field. The results have proven to be terrible for the black QB in general, as only 2* have managed to win a Superbowl.

    *Doug Williams in a strike shortened year was a bottom third level QB who got lucky, and Russel Wilson who happens to be 33% white.

    So they find themselves in the NFL trying to learn how to be a pocket passer and not get killed in the open field. The results have proven to be terrible for the black QB in general, as only 2* have managed to win a Superbowl.

    Cam Newton and RG3 are done. Lamar Jackson and Deshawn Watson may not be far behind if they don’t change their ways.

    Russel Wilson slides at the end of his runs. Brady and Rogers go down quickly when sacked.

  111. Anon[205] • Disclaimer says:

    This is somewhat unrelated, even though Penn State has had exclusively White starting quarterbacks who’ve all excelled on and off the field, collegiate sports serve no legitimate purpose in the academic sphere.

    Coming from a Penn State alum and former collegiate athlete, I’d love to see their program — along with all of college football — permanently axed.

    Penn State football hazing included ‘I am going to Sandusky you,’ player claims in lawsuit

    “Penn State football coach James Franklin allegedly forced defensive back Isaiah Humphries out of the program after he reported violent, sexual hazing by other members of the team, according to a lawsuit filed Monday.

    The lawsuit names the university, Franklin, and ex-teammate Damion Barber as defendants in the case. In the suit, Humphries also claims players Micah Parsons, Yetur Gross-Matos and Jesse Luketa facilitated a campaign to harass and haze the lowerclassmen.

    Players made unwanted sexual contact and threats such as “I am going to Sandusky you,” Humphries claims in the lawsuit.”

    https://www.publicopiniononline.com/story/sports/college/penn-state/football/2020/01/14/penn-state-football-isaiah-humphries-hazing-lawsuit-names-james-franklin-players/4466545002/

    • Replies: @OFWHAP
    Franklin oversaw that gang-rape incident at Vanderbilt, though he might've been fresh on campus when that happened
  112. … it’s not easy to figure out exactly which 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach or a successful businessman is going to succeed at quarterback.

    Especially when dad played football as a 5’ 11” 170-pound defensive halfback.

    https://www.cflapedia.com/Players/b/burrow_jim.pdf

  113. @silviosilver
    All I remember about him is what a complete bust he was.

    I just checked wikipedia for the hell of it though, and it had this quote from a Sports Illustrated article:

    He has never eaten a Big Mac or an Oreo or a Ding Dong. When he went to birthday parties as a kid, he would take his own cake and ice cream to avoid sugar and refined white flour. He would eat homemade catsup, prepared with honey. He did consume beef but not the kind injected with hormones. He ate only unprocessed dairy products. He teethed on frozen kidney and liver.
     
    Damn, kid was paleo before it was cool.

    Believe much of the restrictions were overhyped …heard hes actually pretty nice guy …socal guy i heard was a jerk was rob johnson who i was already biased againt for wade starting him over flutie against titans.

  114. @Hhsiii
    Jalen Rose is Jimmy Walker’s son, but Walker was an absentee father. All genes, aside from his mother and coaches’ nurturing.

    DY-NO-MITE

    • Replies: @hhsiii
    Not gettin' hassled, not gettin' hustled.

    Different spelling Not Jimmie. Former Pistons All Star and back court mate of Dave Bing.
  115. @Morton's toes
    The last LSU quarterback to win the BCS championship and get drafted number one was perhaps the greatest draft bust in NFL history who is actually more famous for publicizing purple drink than anything he ever did in an NFL game. Reportedly he could throw a football 60 yards on his knees.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JaMarcus_Russell

    Better luck for this guy but the Bungles are not a good sign for him.

    Can you think of any differences between JaMarcus Russell and Joe Burrow?

    Also, in between was Matt Flynn, who was drafted in the 7th round by the Packers and won a Super Bowl as Aaron Rodgers’ backup.

  116. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "This fix-is-in thing about black quarterbacks is one of the sillier themes in iSteve comment threads. Reality is the exact opposite: the fix has been in, alright, for decades, but in favor of white quarterbacks. "

    Your observations of this phenomenon are incorrect.

    The NFL has for decades favored the pocket passer, because the NFL wants long passing plays that are exciting and create more interest among casual fans. The fact that the best pocket passers have always been the white guys is a troublesome reality for the NFL, and it has tried just about everything short of banning white QBs in order to close the achievement gap between the two types of QB. The NFL is desperate for black QB's to succeed. Even Steve is to some extent. (He called 2019 the year of the black QB, but going into the conference championships this weekend the only black QB left is the one who is half white. )

    So all of the rules you cite are not meant to protect white QBs per say, but to facilitate a big play passing extravaganza. The NFL rule structure incentivizes QBs to not run, because that is where they suffer more injuries.

    Colleges recruit freakish black athletes to play QB because their athleticism is greater than most of the defenders they are going to face so that is to their advantage. However, once they reach the NFL, where the defensive talent is filtered through a significant bottleneck, these black QBs find themselves competing against defenders who are not only equal or greater athletes than they are, but have the best instincts/football IQ from all of college football. So they find themselves in the NFL trying to learn how to be a pocket passer and not get killed in the open field. The results have proven to be terrible for the black QB in general, as only 2* have managed to win a Superbowl.

    *Doug Williams in a strike shortened year was a bottom third level QB who got lucky, and Russel Wilson who happens to be 33% white.

    The NFL has for decades favored the pocket passer, because the NFL wants long passing plays that are exciting and create more interest among casual fans…..So all of the rules you cite are not meant to protect white QBs per say, but to facilitate a big play passing extravaganza.

    Go find a graph of average yards per completion from the 1960s to now. And then hang your head in shame for having absolutely no clue what you’re talking about.

    Lamar Jackson on a good day is as exciting as football gets, unless you can’t stand black quarterbacks.

  117. People forget but Walter Payton played almost his entire career in Barry Sanders style obscurity…

    As in, he was one of the most famous athletes in America? That style of obscurity?

    He’s tied with Troy Aikman for 61st place all time QB rating list:

    Wow-wee! And did you notice Fitzpatrick was ahead of Bart Starr, Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts, John Elway, and Johnny Unitas too? Inflation is a much bigger problem for QB rating than it is for the U.S. dollar.

    I tend to think of the iSteve commentariat as pretty well-informed, until a sports thread comes along. That’s probably to their credit, though.

  118. @Bernie
    It is not silly to believe that coaches and recruiters favor black athletes because they think they are superior athletes. In big football states like Texas, Pennsylvania and Ohio, white high schols routinely defeat black high schools for football championships. Yet the whites are not as heavily recruited as the blacks or are moved to caste positions -- white corners become safeties, white running backs become tight ends, white D-linemen get moved to O-line.

    I have talked to former white college and pro players and to a man they note that blacks lobby their coaches for their friends. "You just playin' the white guy over Travarious because you aint want a black QB." "You just starting a white linebacker over Demarcus 'cuz you aint want an all black defense."

    It is not silly to believe that coaches and recruiters favor black athletes because they think they are superior athletes.

    Agree. What’s silly is to believe that they’re not superior athletes overall, at least in the attributes that make for success at football and basketball. Or is the next Olympics when we’re finally going to see a bunch of white sprinters on the medal stand?

  119. @ScarletNumber

    which 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach
     
    For some reason Steve has never written about Todd Marinovich, who was a 6’4″ broad-shouldered son of a football coach. He was also the nephew of Craig Fertig, former USC QB and Oregon State head coach.

    I could be wrong, but i don’t think Marinovich’s problem was athletic ability (natural or nurtured).

  120. Not on the topic of QBs, but Carolina Panthers linebacker Luke Kuechley retires at the age of 28.

    A smart move, but arguably it would have been smarter not to play football at all.

  121. @kaganovitch
    He has never eaten a Big Mac or an Oreo or a Ding Dong. When he went to birthday parties as a kid, he would take his own cake and ice cream to avoid sugar and refined white flour.

    None of it was true though. His grandparents gave him lots of junk food when his dad ,the football coach, wasn't around. His father was the original father from hell.Really tragic life.

    Every time I hear that “original…from hell” line, it makes me think of the Simpsons episode when the show-within-a-show tries to introduce the new character into Itchy and Scratchy:

    “We’re talking the original dog from hell!”

    “You mean Cerberus?”

  122. @The Wild Geese Howard

    For those of you unfamiliar with southern pejoratives/terms of endearment(not mutually exclusive terms) a coon ass is an individual, white or black, from the backwoods of Louisiana.
     
    I worked with a dude like this. Pretty good, laid-back guy who has kind of failed his way through life.

    Regardless, Ogeron failed up in a spectacular fashion.
     
    Don't totally agree with the idea he failed up.

    In 1988, [Orgeron] began his tenure with the University of Miami, under then-head coach Jimmy Johnson and his successor, Dennis Erickson. He was their defensive line coach for four of those years, in which he coached eight All-Americans (including NFL first-round draft choices Cortez Kennedy, Russell Maryland and Warren Sapp). While he was with the Hurricanes, the program won two national championships (in 1989 and 1991), and he recruited a young Dwayne Johnson (later known as "The Rock" in his professional wrestling and film careers) as a defensive lineman.
     
    Recruiting is huge in college football. Coaching one All-American could be construed as luck, but 8? That's a trend.

    At USC, he won National Recruiter of the Year in 2004:

    During the Carroll years, USC enjoyed much success, including two (Associated Press) National Championships. Orgeron took on the added responsibility of Recruiting Coordinator in 2001, and was named assistant head coach in 2003.[5] Orgeron won National Recruiter of the Year honors in 2004, the same year he was hired by Ole Miss to replace head coach David Cutcliffe.
     
    I bet that Orgeron was involved in recruiting quite of few of the players on the 2003 and 2004 USC National Championship teams. This points to an ability to identify and recruit talent.

    Ole Miss was a huge comedown from USC and it's no surprise he did not do well there. I do think he got a raw deal as the interim head coach at USC. I thought he did enough to earn one more year and avoid being pushed out by known drunk Steve Sarkisian.

    From Orgeron's resume, I think it's clear that he has certain abilities that he's maximized to eventually land his dream job at LSU. He appears quite able to identify and recruit talent. He is probably a more hands-off, CEO style coach that leaves the Xs and Os to his coordinators.

    Congrats to Coach O, totally agree he's doing great for a coon ass.

    known drunk Steve Sarkisian

    I remember Sarkisian went from USC to Washington to USC.

  123. @ScarletNumber

    if they can’t get these guys out of the game by competition, they’ll get them out by not even letting them play at all. they’ve been doing this at other positions for years. now it’s time for the quarterbacks.
     
    One of the benefits of scholarship limits is that it prevents the haves from stocking up on players then never playing them.

    “One of the benefits of scholarship limits is that it prevents the haves from stocking up on players then never playing them.”

    this is something NCAA teams used to do like 40 years ago, but you can’t do that anymore, correct.

    FBS teams have a limit of 85 offers, FCS teams can make 63 offers. that’s still a heck of a lot of players. but it prevents the top 30 teams or so from locking up 90% of the recruits, leaving the other 90 teams with almost nothing.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Back in the old days when colleges could make over 100 scholarship offers, top teams would engage in strategically evil recruiting: Okay, we've got the #1 offensive center in high school football committed to us at Notre Dame, but let's also go all out to recruit the #2 center ... so USC won't get him. We'll stick him on the bench for four years.
  124. @p s c
    Joe Burrow, the 2019 Heisman winner is a month older than Baltimore Ravens star Lamar Jackson, the winner of the 2016 Heisman.

    This is reminiscent of Vinny Testaverde being older than Bernie Kosar, his immediate predecessor with the Miami Hurricanes (and as it happened, the Cleveland Browns).

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    It’s also reminiscent of the two great NBA power forwards of the ‘00s, Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett. Duncan went to four years of college while Garnett went pro straight out of high school. But Duncan was only a year older than Garnett was when he entered the league.
  125. @Steve Sailer
    The Waugh-Cockburn clan has been in the writing game for much of the last 175 years.

    “The Waugh-Cockburn clan has been in the writing game for much of the last 175 years.”

    the exception proves the rule. that Steve Sailer, the master of the academically obscure, can only come up with one counterexample, shows that the observation is accurate.

    a man can sometimes pass on a modicum of his musical ability, his humor, his mathematical facility, his verbal adroitness, his athletic ability, and certainly some of his appearance, height, strength, or character. but a famous author isn’t passing that acumen on to any of his kids. the talent to wordsmith at a rate fast enough and good enough to produce several notable works per decade remains rather rare. although due to typewriters and now word processors, the capability to word salad your way to a dozen worthless books over a writing career is ubiquitous.

    extreme music talent, which is probably second most rare, is common compared to what Stephen King or Rowling or George Martin can do. and those are some of the pop culture fiction writers, without touching luminaries like Tolkein. also, that women can actually do this stuff sometimes, whereas in most other endeavors they’re not even in the game, makes the ability even rarer, in a contra point to Neil deGrasse Tyson. the whole population is in on this and might be able to do it, but almost nobody can, and, it can’t be passed on to kids. Tolkein and King had a bunch of kids, none of them could write. would be interesting to check TFR and writing ability of famous level writers, actually. don’t think it’s been done even in HBD land.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My impression is that writing talent at the level of "making a living as a man of letters" definitely runs in, say, British families, but, in contrast, writing talent at the level of Historic Figure Known Around the World Just by His Last Name is considerably rarer. For example, the descendants of the early 19th Century man of letters Lord Cockburn include numerous individuals who were prominent writers in their own lifetimes such Claude Cockburn, Alexander Cockburn, Alec Waugh, and Auberon Waugh, plus many more who enjoyed a respected byline in the London or New York press. (The actress and director Olivia Wilde is a Cockburn.) But of all the descendants of Lord Cockburn, only Evelyn Waugh has a shot at literary immortality and even that isn't assured: Waugh's novels are only now just starting to come off copyright and who knows what shifts in literary tastes might be in the offing?
  126. @prime noticer
    "The Waugh-Cockburn clan has been in the writing game for much of the last 175 years."

    the exception proves the rule. that Steve Sailer, the master of the academically obscure, can only come up with one counterexample, shows that the observation is accurate.

    a man can sometimes pass on a modicum of his musical ability, his humor, his mathematical facility, his verbal adroitness, his athletic ability, and certainly some of his appearance, height, strength, or character. but a famous author isn't passing that acumen on to any of his kids. the talent to wordsmith at a rate fast enough and good enough to produce several notable works per decade remains rather rare. although due to typewriters and now word processors, the capability to word salad your way to a dozen worthless books over a writing career is ubiquitous.

    extreme music talent, which is probably second most rare, is common compared to what Stephen King or Rowling or George Martin can do. and those are some of the pop culture fiction writers, without touching luminaries like Tolkein. also, that women can actually do this stuff sometimes, whereas in most other endeavors they're not even in the game, makes the ability even rarer, in a contra point to Neil deGrasse Tyson. the whole population is in on this and might be able to do it, but almost nobody can, and, it can't be passed on to kids. Tolkein and King had a bunch of kids, none of them could write. would be interesting to check TFR and writing ability of famous level writers, actually. don't think it's been done even in HBD land.

    My impression is that writing talent at the level of “making a living as a man of letters” definitely runs in, say, British families, but, in contrast, writing talent at the level of Historic Figure Known Around the World Just by His Last Name is considerably rarer. For example, the descendants of the early 19th Century man of letters Lord Cockburn include numerous individuals who were prominent writers in their own lifetimes such Claude Cockburn, Alexander Cockburn, Alec Waugh, and Auberon Waugh, plus many more who enjoyed a respected byline in the London or New York press. (The actress and director Olivia Wilde is a Cockburn.) But of all the descendants of Lord Cockburn, only Evelyn Waugh has a shot at literary immortality and even that isn’t assured: Waugh’s novels are only now just starting to come off copyright and who knows what shifts in literary tastes might be in the offing?

  127. @prime noticer
    "One of the benefits of scholarship limits is that it prevents the haves from stocking up on players then never playing them."

    this is something NCAA teams used to do like 40 years ago, but you can't do that anymore, correct.

    FBS teams have a limit of 85 offers, FCS teams can make 63 offers. that's still a heck of a lot of players. but it prevents the top 30 teams or so from locking up 90% of the recruits, leaving the other 90 teams with almost nothing.

    Back in the old days when colleges could make over 100 scholarship offers, top teams would engage in strategically evil recruiting: Okay, we’ve got the #1 offensive center in high school football committed to us at Notre Dame, but let’s also go all out to recruit the #2 center … so USC won’t get him. We’ll stick him on the bench for four years.

  128. @ScarletNumber
    This is reminiscent of Vinny Testaverde being older than Bernie Kosar, his immediate predecessor with the Miami Hurricanes (and as it happened, the Cleveland Browns).

    It’s also reminiscent of the two great NBA power forwards of the ‘00s, Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett. Duncan went to four years of college while Garnett went pro straight out of high school. But Duncan was only a year older than Garnett was when he entered the league.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Kevin Garnett plays himself, pretty well, in the Adam Sandler movie "Uncut Gems," which is set in 2012 on Garnett's 36th birthday.

    Which player wore out faster? An NBA pro season is about 3 times as long as an NCAA college season, so there was always the question of whether Garnett's knees wore out faster than Duncan's. But I can't really tell from looking at their stats:

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01.html

    In general, I presume that Duncan enjoyed going to college more than Garnett would have, so both men made the right choices for themselves.

  129. @Hapalong Cassidy
    It’s also reminiscent of the two great NBA power forwards of the ‘00s, Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett. Duncan went to four years of college while Garnett went pro straight out of high school. But Duncan was only a year older than Garnett was when he entered the league.

    Kevin Garnett plays himself, pretty well, in the Adam Sandler movie “Uncut Gems,” which is set in 2012 on Garnett’s 36th birthday.

    Which player wore out faster? An NBA pro season is about 3 times as long as an NCAA college season, so there was always the question of whether Garnett’s knees wore out faster than Duncan’s. But I can’t really tell from looking at their stats:

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01.html

    In general, I presume that Duncan enjoyed going to college more than Garnett would have, so both men made the right choices for themselves.

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    I doubt entering into the NBA early would wear out the knees considerably faster. All-in-all a player would probably have a slightly longer pro career by skipping college altogether. I should also have mentioned Dirk Nowitzki along with the other two power forwards. He had a 20-year career that ended only last season, and he entered the NBA at the same age as Garnett. And before that he had played a couple of years of pro ball in Europe, which I imagine might be slightly more strenuous than college ball.

    Incidentally, noted sports columnist Michael Wilbon used to decry how white players were discriminated against, often being stereotyped as “slow and lumbering”. He aptly pointed out that Nowitzki was neither of those things.
  130. @Steve Sailer
    Kevin Garnett plays himself, pretty well, in the Adam Sandler movie "Uncut Gems," which is set in 2012 on Garnett's 36th birthday.

    Which player wore out faster? An NBA pro season is about 3 times as long as an NCAA college season, so there was always the question of whether Garnett's knees wore out faster than Duncan's. But I can't really tell from looking at their stats:

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01.html

    In general, I presume that Duncan enjoyed going to college more than Garnett would have, so both men made the right choices for themselves.

    I doubt entering into the NBA early would wear out the knees considerably faster. All-in-all a player would probably have a slightly longer pro career by skipping college altogether. I should also have mentioned Dirk Nowitzki along with the other two power forwards. He had a 20-year career that ended only last season, and he entered the NBA at the same age as Garnett. And before that he had played a couple of years of pro ball in Europe, which I imagine might be slightly more strenuous than college ball.

    Incidentally, noted sports columnist Michael Wilbon used to decry how white players were discriminated against, often being stereotyped as “slow and lumbering”. He aptly pointed out that Nowitzki was neither of those things.

  131. @a boy and his dog
    Surprised not to see mention of Patrick Mahomes here yet. Mixed race son of a black pro baseball player and a white mom who throws the football as if it were a baseball.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm_svGpXL8s

    Who’d bet against Mahome’s holding up the Lombardi in early Feb’?
    Of course, a Ravens like outcome can’t be ruled out….

  132. @prime noticer
    Steve is not wrong about the general point. the amazing American sorting system is starting to show that extremely high talent levels are fairly hereditary at most endeavors or fields.

    "His dad played for..." is now a common sentence heard from sports announcers.

    i do wonder if writing ability is one of the talents that is least able to be passed on. we spend most of our time in HBD world discussing how intelligence passes on. but extremely high writing ability is part of that and it doesn't seem to transfer. famous writers almost never have kids that become famous writers. this is not the same as verbal ability, which does transfer.

    also per Steve's military post, behavior patterns are hereditary. as two of the big ones are clearly hereditary, intelligence and personality, environmentalists are in a jam. i think we'll find that behavior patterns are just furthur extensions of brain construction. as with intelligence, it's likely that the brain construction instructions in DNA also tell the cells to build a brain that has similar structures and activation patterns as it's predecessors. that's almost certainly what's going on with GAD and depression, and we'll find that's how most personality works. it seems self evident, going by how animal breeding works and personality in animals.

    The Manning brothers are also a pretty good indicator of genetic influence (& perhaps the Harbaugh brothers too).
    On the other hand, how often have sons filled to live up to great fathers?)

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Pitts?

    You also see a lot of near great fathers of great sons, such as Randolph and Winston Churchill.

    , @Keypusher
    Hannibal was the son of Hamilcar Barca, Alexander the Great was the son of Phillip of Macedon, etc. In capitalist times it’s often been an advantage not to start from nowhere, e.g. JP Morgan’s father was a very successful banker, so JP was rich at birth, Bill Gates’ dad was a well-off lawyer, and so on.
  133. @Mr McKenna

    used that to suggest that Blacks should fill a commensurate number of head coaching positions
     
    When "Establishment Journalists" start suggesting that blacks should fill a commensurate number of franchise ownership positions, you'll know that the Revolution is truly at hand.

    “When “Establishment Journalists” start suggesting that blacks should fill a commensurate number of franchise ownership positions, you’ll know that the Revolution is truly at hand.”
    You’ll know the revolution will truly be at hand when msm journalists call for community ownership of big sporting enterprises (the Packers being a good example — the exception that proves the rule)

  134. @animalogic
    The Manning brothers are also a pretty good indicator of genetic influence (& perhaps the Harbaugh brothers too).
    On the other hand, how often have sons filled to live up to great fathers?)

    The Pitts?

    You also see a lot of near great fathers of great sons, such as Randolph and Winston Churchill.

  135. @animalogic
    The Manning brothers are also a pretty good indicator of genetic influence (& perhaps the Harbaugh brothers too).
    On the other hand, how often have sons filled to live up to great fathers?)

    Hannibal was the son of Hamilcar Barca, Alexander the Great was the son of Phillip of Macedon, etc. In capitalist times it’s often been an advantage not to start from nowhere, e.g. JP Morgan’s father was a very successful banker, so JP was rich at birth, Bill Gates’ dad was a well-off lawyer, and so on.

  136. GEAUX TIGERS.
    FOREVER LSU.

  137. @PaceLaw
    Not quite correct. Wilson transferred because the head coach at NC State told him because he was going to go in a different direction at qb. Apparently the coach thought Wilson was too short to make it to the NFL.

    That’s right — I forgot about the Glennon thing. Glennon is 6′ 6″.

  138. @Walsh2
    At the end of his first year he took one hardest hits you'll ever see, got up, brushed himself off and took care of business. At that point his team was all in behind him. Over the off season Ogeron hired QB coach from NO Saints, Burrows had the entire off season to work with one of the best receiving corps in the game, and the rest is history.

    Burrows is certainly an interesting case study - his coach, moreso. Ogeron is a straight up coon ass. For those of you unfamiliar with southern pejoratives/terms of endearment(not mutually exclusive terms) a coon ass is an individual, white or black, from the backwoods of Louisiana. Regardless, Ogeron failed up in a spectacular fashion. He began as an assistant defensive line coach for some of the best team in the nation and has a very colorful history as a coach who players love. His first stint as a head coach he went 0-8 in the SEC at Ole Miss and got fired. He went to LSU as an assistant then took over as interim coach and was eventually hired as head coach. LSU fans were not happy with the hire. Despite being considered an idiot by many he had the foresight to realize that LSU's wide receivers were consistently the best in the nation and were being under used so he hired a coach from the Saints and turned him loose with the offense.

    Ogeron nature - about a 110 IQ + Ogeron nuture - Louisiana backwoods = National Championship and seven figure annual salary. Not bad for a coon ass.

    Come on.

    His name is Burrow. Not Burrows.

    A coonass is not “an individual, white or black, from the backwoods of Louisiana.” Coonass is synonymous with Cajun. Blacks are never referred to as Cajuns or coonasses.

    • Replies: @Walsh2
    If you're going to be pedantic re: Burrow/Burrows I'd expect a little more nuance re: cajun/coonass. Yes, black folks can be and are referred to as coonasses. Now if you're talking about straight up blue gum scoobs then you're correct. If, on the other hand, you're referring to folks that fall somewhere on the spectrum of blackness by Louisiana standards then yes, black folks can be considered coonasses.

    Out of curiosity, where are you from?
  139. Anybody mention Todd Marinovich? Immense talent who hated playing football. He could throw touchdown passes while pooping his pants while high on heroin.

  140. @keypusher
    NFL quarterback position can only be dominated by black guys if the fix is — which is exactly what’s happening. So they try to block whites prospects at the college level. And they keep adjusting the game to accommodate the running QB.

    This fix-is-in thing about black quarterbacks is one of the sillier themes in iSteve comment threads. Reality is the exact opposite: the fix has been in, alright, for decades, but in favor of white quarterbacks. Over the past 40 years, pro football has gotten massively blacker, but until recently quarterback remained a nearly all-white preserve. Why? Because rules favor the pocket passer. Beginning in 1978, rulemakers greatly expanded the range of permissible pass-blocking techniques for offensive lineman, while steadily restricting what defensive backs could do to receivers. More recently, they began limiting what defensive players could do to quarterbacks, with the result that Drew Brees and Tom Brady were able to remain at a high level longer than earlier generations of quarterbacks could dream of doing.

    Because of these rules, passing became steadily more important compared to running, and rewards flowed to QBs who could stand in the pocket, survey the field, and deliver an accurate throw. Compared to most other positions, blacks had no natural advantages at QB, and there was a historical bias towards white quarterbacks, so blacks continued to gravitate elsewhere on the field, and vice versa. You see the same phenomenon at other positions – it’s not as if there isn’t a single white athlete in America who can play cornerback in the NFL, but no one tries. Ditto with black placekickers and punters.

    Nor is superior intellect required to play the position. Dan Marino supposedly got a 16 on the Wonderlic, and is probably the greatest pure passer ever. Ryan Fitzpatrick went to Harvard and got (supposedly) a 48. He’s got a great personality and he wins at life. But he’s not a particularly good quarterback.

    In the past couple of years defenses have gotten better at defending the pass, and so running quarterbacks have come back into vogue. We’ll see if the trend lasts. If running continues to be a key part of the position, the black quarterback is here to stay. (For everyone crowing that only one black QB is left in the playoffs, note that Brady and Brees are done too. And of the four QBs remaining, three are terrific runners/scramblers.)

    Did the NFL favor white quarterbacks deliberately in the past? It’s possible. I think in previous decades NFL executives tended to see black dominance of the NBA as bad for that league’s business, and were glad that (almost always white) quarterbacks tended to be the faces of their franchises. As the country gets more diverse and the NFL, like everybody else, gets more woke, that may be changing.

    Perhaps it has escaped your notice that run first quarterbacks don’t have long careers in the NFL.

    When you have a legitimate starting quarterback, one of your priorities is to end as few plays with your quarterback making contact with the other teams’ players as is possible. Starting quarterbacks also command salary premiums, many with guaranteed money, so having an oft-injured quarterback clogging your salary cap is a recipe for fielding a non-competitive team for years into the future.

    There have been prior trends of the “dual threat” quarterback, and they always tend to end in injury and disappointment. Then the league reverts back to the pocket passing quarterback.

    The only modern dual threat quarterback who plays his run option with the appropriate discretion (and stays healthy because of it) is Russell Wilson, and his passing from the pocket is really good anyway. He has preternatural pocket awareness, and really scrambles when the pocket is just about to collapse on him anyway.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @keypusher
    There's no such thing as a run first quarterback in the NFL. Lamar Jackson ran 176 times and threw 401 passes last year.

    Jackson's on his rookie contract, so he's relatively cheap. The model for running backs nowadays is you get all you can out of them on their rookie contract, then discard them, by which time they're pretty much used up. Possible that could happen with quarterbacks.

    Lots of disappointing posts in this thread.

  141. @prime noticer
    Steve is not wrong about the general point. the amazing American sorting system is starting to show that extremely high talent levels are fairly hereditary at most endeavors or fields.

    "His dad played for..." is now a common sentence heard from sports announcers.

    i do wonder if writing ability is one of the talents that is least able to be passed on. we spend most of our time in HBD world discussing how intelligence passes on. but extremely high writing ability is part of that and it doesn't seem to transfer. famous writers almost never have kids that become famous writers. this is not the same as verbal ability, which does transfer.

    also per Steve's military post, behavior patterns are hereditary. as two of the big ones are clearly hereditary, intelligence and personality, environmentalists are in a jam. i think we'll find that behavior patterns are just furthur extensions of brain construction. as with intelligence, it's likely that the brain construction instructions in DNA also tell the cells to build a brain that has similar structures and activation patterns as it's predecessors. that's almost certainly what's going on with GAD and depression, and we'll find that's how most personality works. it seems self evident, going by how animal breeding works and personality in animals.

    Part of this is because of the insane levels of positional specialisation in major American pro sports. The nearest thing to a generalist in American football is a tight end (which is why all my favourite players are TEs or LBs): pretty much everyone else (including the QB) is a one-trick pony.

    I don’t watch basketball much because it’s just a bunch of 6’6″+ blokes running up and down an area 10% the area of a football field (a bb court is 31% of a football field in each dimension), but the actual skills are limited. This is why there is no optimisation: otherwise teams would instruct players to shoot free-throws ‘underhand’ (provably, demonstrably a higher-probability method than the standard method).

    The Operational Research view of the world has some half-decent empirical evidence that most professional activities of any sort (including most sports) don’t involve single-domain freakery: they involve developing a set of general skills.

    For sports the most obvious general skills are fitness, physical co-ordination, and spatial dexterity – and while endowment in those areas is non-trivial, all of them are trainable to elite levels virtually from scratch. The ‘once in a lifetime’ player tends to have extraordinary levels of spatial dexterity.

    Roger Federer is the exemplar of this at the elite level (Martina Hingis likewise, for women).

    No single part of his game is “best” – his is not the biggest serve; not the best 1st-serve percentage; not the most insane ground strokes; not the heaviest topspin forehand; not the most brutal 2-handed backhand; he’s not the outright fittest guy out there; he’s mentally a bit fragile (when he goes off the boil mentally he looks awful). He’s probably top decile (among the elite) in all those things, though.

    However his spatial awareness – for every relevant thing and path in the playing space – is hypertrophied .This enables him to narrow the set of things he has to consider, and ensures that he gets to the ball with about a week to spare – and put the ball somewhere that is in the hardest 10% of places for the opponent to get to.

    That ‘preternatural’ spatial awareness seems to come out of nowhere: people who have it, tend to have it from the first time they enter the field (it can be hard to tell because their lack of fitness or co-ordination can more than offset). It’s found in people who are in all other respects, cognitively unspectacular.

    When you see people with that sort of awareness in team sports, they make it look like other payers are moving in slow motion.

    Scott Pendlebury (captain of Collingwood in the AFL) at his peak a few years ago, seemed to have all the time in the world to make decisions.

    He’s not tallest, fastest, biggest; he’s not the longest or most-accurate kick or handball; his ‘non-preferred’ side skills are barely to professional standard; his fitness is only top-decile (for the AFL).

    This is Pendles last year – 5 years past his best: hopefully the video cues to 41 seconds.

    You’ll notice that he takes receipt of the ball while he’s basically surrounded, then beats a total of 6 defenders – not by being faster; not by breaking tackles; he does it by slowing down and very rapidly identifying a set of movements that defenders can’t get to.

    You can’t teach that; the players that exhibit it don’t have any obvious common traits in their parents (although aboriginal and part-aboriginal players tend to exhibit it; Pendles isn’t part-aboriginal).

    Don’t get me wrong: these people are still exceptional at all the things that they’re not ‘best‘ at in their peer level.

    The point is: Federer’s not best at any single-skill aspect of tennis – but the combination, when paired with preternatural spatial awareness, results in him being overall best at the thing that matters… winning Grand Slams.

    Not bad for a guy who was excused from compulsory military service because of a bad back.

    .

    Outside of sports it’s a chicken-egg thing as far as heritability goes – the environment in which kids of exceptional practitioners in [insert field] are raised, will have characteristics that encourage the kiddie to think that [insert field] is a useful thing to pursue. Their parents’ social circle will include more people from [insert field] or a nearby field. They will get some social kudos for being the kid of famous [insert field] person.

    More generally, domain specialists will tend to value education and to have a more-education-oriented home. (All this strongly caveated that the expert in [insert field isn’t an asshole]

    So for the kids of professional journalists (like the Cockburns, and to a lesser extent the Waughs), home life would favour a literary-analytical approach to things, and adult acquaintances would have a similar broad set of values.

    That, plus any heritable aspects of intelligence, plus the ability to exploit parental networks… all of those things are odds-tilts that make it likely that the kiddies will do something in the media, marketing or literary world.

    .

    The thing that constantly amazes me is that somehow poor urban areas of the US seem to turn out tall people (almost regardless of race) more than one would expect.

    Just recently I watched a documentary about a guy born in Puerto Rico who was a big deal in High School basketball (in the 80s, I think) who washed out in college and never made it to the NBA. Neither of his parents were tall, and they lived in a part of town that was poor as shit.

    I wonder if there will be some future revelation that the US government experimented by putting growth-chemicals in the water supply in shitty parts of town?

    Seems like something they would do, and would help explain half of the NFL and more than half of the NBA.

    .

    At the end of the day, the best guess at the split is the default – 50/50 Nat/Nur – except for basketball centres, where being tall is such a massive advantage that a genuine 7′ male in the US supposedly has a 1-in-6 chance of playing in the NBA.

    FWIW: I just tried to get a cite for that, and it seems contentious (partly because genuine raw 7’ers are so rare).

    I also learned that all sports ‘list’ heights are generally measured in shoes/cleats/boots etc… turns out that Dikembe Matumbo was barely 7′ (when he was listed at 7’2″); Jordan 6’4″.

    That system permits me to claim to be 6’3″ in my Hoka OneOne Gaviotas.

    It also clears up why an AFL player I have met socially is listed at my actual height (6’1½”) but is the same actual height as my kid brother (who is 5’11½”).

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Gretzky and Messi could see where the hockey puck/soccer ball was going to be before anybody else.

    Tiger Woods has tremendous visualization skills for how the ball will roll on undulating greens.

  142. @Kratoklastes
    Part of this is because of the insane levels of positional specialisation in major American pro sports. The nearest thing to a generalist in American football is a tight end (which is why all my favourite players are TEs or LBs): pretty much everyone else (including the QB) is a one-trick pony.

    I don't watch basketball much because it's just a bunch of 6'6"+ blokes running up and down an area 10% the area of a football field (a bb court is 31% of a football field in each dimension), but the actual skills are limited. This is why there is no optimisation: otherwise teams would instruct players to shoot free-throws 'underhand' (provably, demonstrably a higher-probability method than the standard method).

    The Operational Research view of the world has some half-decent empirical evidence that most professional activities of any sort (including most sports) don't involve single-domain freakery: they involve developing a set of general skills.

    For sports the most obvious general skills are fitness, physical co-ordination, and spatial dexterity - and while endowment in those areas is non-trivial, all of them are trainable to elite levels virtually from scratch. The 'once in a lifetime' player tends to have extraordinary levels of spatial dexterity.

    Roger Federer is the exemplar of this at the elite level (Martina Hingis likewise, for women).

    No single part of his game is "best" - his is not the biggest serve; not the best 1st-serve percentage; not the most insane ground strokes; not the heaviest topspin forehand; not the most brutal 2-handed backhand; he's not the outright fittest guy out there; he's mentally a bit fragile (when he goes off the boil mentally he looks awful). He's probably top decile (among the elite) in all those things, though.

    However his spatial awareness - for every relevant thing and path in the playing space - is hypertrophied .This enables him to narrow the set of things he has to consider, and ensures that he gets to the ball with about a week to spare - and put the ball somewhere that is in the hardest 10% of places for the opponent to get to.

    That 'preternatural' spatial awareness seems to come out of nowhere: people who have it, tend to have it from the first time they enter the field (it can be hard to tell because their lack of fitness or co-ordination can more than offset). It's found in people who are in all other respects, cognitively unspectacular.

    When you see people with that sort of awareness in team sports, they make it look like other payers are moving in slow motion.

    Scott Pendlebury (captain of Collingwood in the AFL) at his peak a few years ago, seemed to have all the time in the world to make decisions.

    He's not tallest, fastest, biggest; he's not the longest or most-accurate kick or handball; his 'non-preferred' side skills are barely to professional standard; his fitness is only top-decile (for the AFL).

    This is Pendles last year - 5 years past his best: hopefully the video cues to 41 seconds.

    You'll notice that he takes receipt of the ball while he's basically surrounded, then beats a total of 6 defenders - not by being faster; not by breaking tackles; he does it by slowing down and very rapidly identifying a set of movements that defenders can't get to.

    https://youtu.be/yhHc1PI5dsA?t=41

    You can't teach that; the players that exhibit it don't have any obvious common traits in their parents (although aboriginal and part-aboriginal players tend to exhibit it; Pendles isn't part-aboriginal).

    Don't get me wrong: these people are still exceptional at all the things that they're not 'best' at in their peer level.

    The point is: Federer's not best at any single-skill aspect of tennis - but the combination, when paired with preternatural spatial awareness, results in him being overall best at the thing that matters... winning Grand Slams.

    Not bad for a guy who was excused from compulsory military service because of a bad back.

    .

    Outside of sports it's a chicken-egg thing as far as heritability goes - the environment in which kids of exceptional practitioners in [insert field] are raised, will have characteristics that encourage the kiddie to think that [insert field] is a useful thing to pursue. Their parents' social circle will include more people from [insert field] or a nearby field. They will get some social kudos for being the kid of famous [insert field] person.

    More generally, domain specialists will tend to value education and to have a more-education-oriented home. (All this strongly caveated that the expert in [insert field isn't an asshole]

    So for the kids of professional journalists (like the Cockburns, and to a lesser extent the Waughs), home life would favour a literary-analytical approach to things, and adult acquaintances would have a similar broad set of values.

    That, plus any heritable aspects of intelligence, plus the ability to exploit parental networks... all of those things are odds-tilts that make it likely that the kiddies will do something in the media, marketing or literary world.

    .

    The thing that constantly amazes me is that somehow poor urban areas of the US seem to turn out tall people (almost regardless of race) more than one would expect.

    Just recently I watched a documentary about a guy born in Puerto Rico who was a big deal in High School basketball (in the 80s, I think) who washed out in college and never made it to the NBA. Neither of his parents were tall, and they lived in a part of town that was poor as shit.

    I wonder if there will be some future revelation that the US government experimented by putting growth-chemicals in the water supply in shitty parts of town?

    Seems like something they would do, and would help explain half of the NFL and more than half of the NBA.


    .

    At the end of the day, the best guess at the split is the default - 50/50 Nat/Nur - except for basketball centres, where being tall is such a massive advantage that a genuine 7' male in the US supposedly has a 1-in-6 chance of playing in the NBA.

    FWIW: I just tried to get a cite for that, and it seems contentious (partly because genuine raw 7'ers are so rare).

    I also learned that all sports 'list' heights are generally measured in shoes/cleats/boots etc... turns out that Dikembe Matumbo was barely 7' (when he was listed at 7'2"); Jordan 6'4".

    That system permits me to claim to be 6'3" in my Hoka OneOne Gaviotas.

    It also clears up why an AFL player I have met socially is listed at my actual height (6'1½") but is the same actual height as my kid brother (who is 5'11½").

    Gretzky and Messi could see where the hockey puck/soccer ball was going to be before anybody else.

    Tiger Woods has tremendous visualization skills for how the ball will roll on undulating greens.

  143. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    Perhaps it has escaped your notice that run first quarterbacks don't have long careers in the NFL.

    When you have a legitimate starting quarterback, one of your priorities is to end as few plays with your quarterback making contact with the other teams' players as is possible. Starting quarterbacks also command salary premiums, many with guaranteed money, so having an oft-injured quarterback clogging your salary cap is a recipe for fielding a non-competitive team for years into the future.

    There have been prior trends of the "dual threat" quarterback, and they always tend to end in injury and disappointment. Then the league reverts back to the pocket passing quarterback.

    The only modern dual threat quarterback who plays his run option with the appropriate discretion (and stays healthy because of it) is Russell Wilson, and his passing from the pocket is really good anyway. He has preternatural pocket awareness, and really scrambles when the pocket is just about to collapse on him anyway.

    There’s no such thing as a run first quarterback in the NFL. Lamar Jackson ran 176 times and threw 401 passes last year.

    Jackson’s on his rookie contract, so he’s relatively cheap. The model for running backs nowadays is you get all you can out of them on their rookie contract, then discard them, by which time they’re pretty much used up. Possible that could happen with quarterbacks.

    Lots of disappointing posts in this thread.

  144. @ben tillman

    Thinking that both Nebraska and Ohio State are feeling kind of stupid now. They would like to say they prefer a quarterback who can run well (like a halfback who can throw well?) but if you saw Burrow scramble you know better. Burrow was one of only two white starters on the LSU team (also the right tackle on offense) but he won over the team with his leadership and performances. Seems most players like to win and win big. In some cases even over tribal affiliation.
     
    Of course, in '03 LSU's championship team also had just two white starters: a safety and the tailback.

    Of course, in ’03 LSU’s championship team also had just two white starters: a safety and the tailback.

    You’re thinking of LSU’s 2007 team, featuring Jacob Hester at running back and Craig Steltz at safety. However you forgot about Matt Flynn, the starting quarterback. LSU’s 2003 team featured white QB, Matt Mauck, and white safety, Jack Hunt. However there were other white starters on the offensive and maybe defensive lines.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    You're right. I was thinking about Hester and Steltz but got the year wrong.
  145. @Anon
    This is somewhat unrelated, even though Penn State has had exclusively White starting quarterbacks who've all excelled on and off the field, collegiate sports serve no legitimate purpose in the academic sphere.

    Coming from a Penn State alum and former collegiate athlete, I'd love to see their program -- along with all of college football -- permanently axed.

    Penn State football hazing included 'I am going to Sandusky you,' player claims in lawsuit

    "Penn State football coach James Franklin allegedly forced defensive back Isaiah Humphries out of the program after he reported violent, sexual hazing by other members of the team, according to a lawsuit filed Monday.

    The lawsuit names the university, Franklin, and ex-teammate Damion Barber as defendants in the case. In the suit, Humphries also claims players Micah Parsons, Yetur Gross-Matos and Jesse Luketa facilitated a campaign to harass and haze the lowerclassmen.

    Players made unwanted sexual contact and threats such as "I am going to Sandusky you," Humphries claims in the lawsuit."

    https://www.publicopiniononline.com/story/sports/college/penn-state/football/2020/01/14/penn-state-football-isaiah-humphries-hazing-lawsuit-names-james-franklin-players/4466545002/
     

    Franklin oversaw that gang-rape incident at Vanderbilt, though he might’ve been fresh on campus when that happened

  146. @Federalist
    Come on.

    His name is Burrow. Not Burrows.

    A coonass is not "an individual, white or black, from the backwoods of Louisiana." Coonass is synonymous with Cajun. Blacks are never referred to as Cajuns or coonasses.

    If you’re going to be pedantic re: Burrow/Burrows I’d expect a little more nuance re: cajun/coonass. Yes, black folks can be and are referred to as coonasses. Now if you’re talking about straight up blue gum scoobs then you’re correct. If, on the other hand, you’re referring to folks that fall somewhere on the spectrum of blackness by Louisiana standards then yes, black folks can be considered coonasses.

    Out of curiosity, where are you from?

  147. @ScarletNumber
    DY-NO-MITE

    Not gettin’ hassled, not gettin’ hustled.

    Different spelling Not Jimmie. Former Pistons All Star and back court mate of Dave Bing.

  148. @OFWHAP

    Of course, in ’03 LSU’s championship team also had just two white starters: a safety and the tailback.
     
    You're thinking of LSU's 2007 team, featuring Jacob Hester at running back and Craig Steltz at safety. However you forgot about Matt Flynn, the starting quarterback. LSU's 2003 team featured white QB, Matt Mauck, and white safety, Jack Hunt. However there were other white starters on the offensive and maybe defensive lines.

    You’re right. I was thinking about Hester and Steltz but got the year wrong.

  149. Damn. Sorry I didn’t notice your response earlier. You’ll probably never see this now. But I have lived in South Louisiana my entire life, much of it in Acadiana. Cajun and coonass are synonymous. (Some Cajuns find the term “coonass” objectionable). In Louisiana, blacks are never referred to as Cajun or coonass.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS