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Nation-Building in Afghanistan, RIP
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Two weeks after 9/11, I published a lengthy movie review of John Huston’s 1975 adaptation of Kipling’s extraordinary short story The Man Who Would Be King, which starred Sean Connery and Michael Caine as adventurers who cross the Hindu Kush into remotest Afghanistan with plans to become Kings of Kafiristan. Using the movie as a lens, I tried to answer two relevant questions:

Did the U.S. have the military strength to topple the Taliban government in punishment for sheltering Osama bin Laden? (Yes.)

Should the US then then stick around to nation-build? (No.)

Here’s the end of my essay from 20 years ago:

Yet, if a war in Afghanistan does prove winnable, which it should, ought the U.S. to then undertake a long-term benevolent occupation to attempt to turn that desolate land into a peaceful “normal country?” Huston’s movie offers a skeptical perspective.

Initially, the two pirates’ plan succeeds wildly. The pagans believe Daniel is a god, the son of Alexander. The high priests crown him King of Kafiristan and offer him a treasure room full of rubies and gold. All Daniel and Peachey need to do to become the two richest men on Earth is to fill their packs, wait four months for the snows in the Hindu Kush to melt, and then walk out.

While awaiting Spring, Daniel amuses himself by playing at being king. To the applause of his new subjects, he enforces peace, dispenses justice at traditional durbars, sets up granaries to ensure against famine, and builds bridges to tie the country together.

When the passes finally open, Peachey learns to his horror that Daniel now feels too responsible for his people to grab the loot and run. “A nation I shall make of it, with an anthem and a flag,” King Daniel thunders.

Worse, Daniel has decided to take a Queen. He has picked out a local beauty called Roxanne — the same name as Alexander’s wife. The priests demur. Billy Fish tries to explain to the king why his marriage would be an affront to Kafir beliefs. Daniel, blinded by his victories — “Have I not put the shadow of my hand over this country?” — fails to grasp that what seems a quibble to him is of dread import to the Kafirs.

Catastrophe ensues.

Science fiction novelist Orson Scott Card (“Ender’s Game”) summed up “The Man Who Would Be King”: “This is the classic tragedy that Aristotle spoke of — so powerful that some of us can only stand to see the ending once.”

Those who advocate that we stay in Afghanistan long after Osama bin Laden and the Taliban are dealt with should ponder Kipling and Huston’s parable.

 
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  1. A lot of people got promotions, a lot of people made money, so what’s the problem?
    Other than the resources we wasted that could have been used to prepare for more important things.

  2. At the end of the day the US lost in Afghanistan like it lost in Vietnam because the only way to win was to commit genocide. There was no true army or institution to fight, you were fighting the people themselves, ultimately.

    The Taliban are just mountain tribal Pashtuns. You’d have to kill every man of fighting age from those people to defeat them. What else do those men have to do but fight? Just like in Yemen, what else are those guys going to do but fight?

    There were lots of opportunities to settle this with some kind of power-sharing agreement and the posting of UN or other troops to protect areas of non-Pashtuns but for some reason this was seen as more acceptable. Maybe the people at the US State Department were disappointed at other solutions that didn’t have a high enough body count for their tastes.

    • Replies: @fish
    @Altai2

    My “agree” button isn’t working! Nevertheless I agree wholeheartedly!

    , @AnotherDad
    @Altai2


    At the end of the day the US lost in Afghanistan like it lost in Vietnam because the only way to win was to commit genocide. There was no true army or institution to fight, you were fighting the people themselves, ultimately.
     
    I don't think full on--kill the men, enjoy the women--conquest is quite required, but you have to be pretty nasty. Basically make everyone, the men of every town, every village responsible for keeping their joint "safe". Then lowering the boom if they do not. (Since we won't do the later, you don't get the former.)

    The US--and its people--are not prepared to do what is required to actually win. So we shouldn't be doing it.

    In any case it's their nation, not ours. Killing the leaders who let Osama bin Laden hang there was completely sufficient. Kill them, tell the next guys "don't do that" and move on.

    For a tiny fraction of the cost of this Bush-Obama-Trump boondoggle we could have an essentially impenetrable southern border. Something that is actually the job of the United States government.

    Now with Biden we'll be out of Afghanistan ... and spending the money to support the millions invading us. Peachy.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  3. Did the U.S. have the military strength to topple the Taliban government in punishment for sheltering Osama bin Laden? (Yes.)

    “Wrong question question your honor. This sheds no light on what the FBI knew about people playing take-off-but-no-landings in local flight simulators while TLAs warned repeatedly about plane hijacking plans by the Qaeda, indeed, was heavily training for it on the very day of 9/11.

    Was Diversity Porn already advanced enough at the epoch that looking into this matter would seem overly racist?”

    “Sustained!”

  4. The funny thing is, the Taliban actually tried to surrender but the US would not accept it.

    DID YOU KNOW that shortly after the U.S. invaded Afghanistan, the Taliban tried to surrender?

    For centuries in Afghanistan, when a rival force had come to power, the defeated one would put down their weapons and be integrated into the new power structure — obviously with much less power, or none at all. That’s how you do with neighbors you have to continue to live with. This isn’t a football game, where the teams go to different cities when it’s over. That may be hard for us to remember, because the U.S. hasn’t fought a protracted war on its own soil since the Civil War.

    So when the Taliban came to surrender, the U.S. turned them down repeatedly, in a series of arrogant blunders spelled out in Anand Gopal’s investigative treatment of the Afghanistan war, “No Good Men Among the Living.”

    https://static.theintercept.com/amp/afghanistan-donald-trump-taliban-surrender-here-we-are.html

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Menschmaschine

    Everything is modelled off the great victory in WW2. This includes how you know you've won, what will happen to the opposing country afterwards and all of that; but WW2 was almost unique in those respects. Normally wars end with a negotiated surrender and no need to seek total victory. Somehow the US still hasn't worked that out. De-Baathification was a farce re-run of de-Nazification. Refusing to accept the Taliban's surrender was like closing onto Berlin so no surrender was even needed. This is all very stupid. It worked once, in unique circumstances, but it never worked any other time. You enemy needs to be willing to stand ground and basically fight and die to the last, rather than run off and live to fight again.

    Replies: @rebel yell

    , @Prester John
    @Menschmaschine

    This comes as no surprise. Read "The Fifty Year Wound" by Derek Laebart. Though it's about the Cold War, it's a primer on how amateurish and flat out stupid the personnel who have running US foreign policy really are.

    Replies: @Clyde

  5. “Did the U.S. have the military strength to topple the Taliban government in punishment for sheltering Osama bin Laden? (Yes.)”

    It is not clear the Taliban were sheltering Bin Laden. It is clear that in the 1980s the US directly or indirectly sent Bin Laden to Afghanistan to make war on the Soviets.

  6. Afghanistan — Graveyard of empires

    Why Is Afghanistan the ‘Graveyard of Empires’?
    A brief history of the empires that were broken in the Hindu Kush.
    https://tinyurl.com/px5vsxdv — June 30, 2017

  7. The Kafirs of the story and film were considerably more civilised than real life Pashtuns then and now.
    The only logical options were to declare victory and leave, or, stay a short while, build up anti-Taliban forces, and then leave.
    Either way, this should have been all over by 2002.

  8. Spoiler alert from Wiki-pedo-ia*:

    He is also struck by the beauty of a girl called Roxane, the name of Alexander’s wife, and cancels their pact to avoid women, saying he will marry her in order to leave the people an heir. When she is reluctantly brought to him, he tries to kiss her, but she, terrified that the touch of a god means death to a mortal, bites his cheek. Seeing him bleed, the people realise he is only human and try to grab the British impostors.

    If one feared death then I don’t think it would be advisable to bite the cheek of a god.

    *As recently as a few years ago I would feel guilty when I scrolled past the Wikipedos’ request for shekels. I even donated money on a couple occasions. But the neo-leftist bias is so blatant now that I just laugh when I see the requests. Bezos and Soros can pay for the site.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @AndrewR

    “He is also struck by the beauty of a girl called Roxane…”

    So did The Police.

    Finally, a solid effort by iSteve.

  9. Trying to assimilate immigrants into a country is essentially the same as nation building, and just as destined to fail, unless the number are very small and not allowed to cluster too much in Chinatown-like areas.

    • Replies: @James J O'Meara
    @Anon

    Indeed, and those who promote it, thinking it makes them "safer" from the White majority, will find themselves facing the Taliban's cousins.

  10. Kipling knew more of Afghanistan than the entirety of those in the U.S. Govt…

    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
    An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier.

  11. Soviet Commisars in the Eighties were very surprised that these 8th century herdsmen would not accept the modern glories of Communism and the dictatorship of the proletariat. Why did the Neocons think the Afghanis would accept Liberal Democracy with Gay Pride parades and Intersectional feminism? They just want to pray to Allah then make love to their wives and beat their livestock or vice versa when the mood hits.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Skyler the Weird


    They just want to pray to Allah then make love to their wives...
     



    "Wives". Yeah, right.



    https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,h_222,w_222/x2dylvsvpz4nvp474yfq.jpg
    , @Alden
    @Skyler the Weird

    Afghani men make love to boys age 4 to 12 and force themselves to impregnate their wives 4 or 5 times. It’s the most homosexual country on earth. Has been for centuries. “ Boys are for love women are for babies” is the title of the national anthem of Afghanistan. It’s the only country in earth where the majority of the prostitutes aren’t women but young not even teen boys.

    Another Oogabooga Land best left alone.

  12. The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    • Thanks: Ron Mexico
    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    @Henry Canaday

    Afghanistan was not used as a base for a murderous attack on the US. Why not nuke Israel instead…ever hear of the Samson option?

    9/11 was avoidable…completely.

    The Taliban is not Isis…in fact the Taliban and Isis hate each other…

    BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW?…This is an issue that affects me personally…

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain

    , @Inquiring Mind
    @Henry Canaday

    Is it remotely possible to weight in with Mr. Biden (and Messrs. Blinken and Klain, too) being totally in this over their heads and not having a clue as to what they are doing?

    Is it possible to say this without being branded a Neo-con, Chicken Hawk or low-ranking officer in the Chair Borne?

    There is this guy "on another blog" commenting on what is purportedly his own name and claiming to be, don't know, a public-policy attorney in the DC area. I guess he is a troll, or maybe more accurately, a Hasbara operative (I mean this in the generic sense, I doubt the State of Israel employs/deploys anyone that unsubtle and unsophisticated). His snappy comeback to "Biden is terrible" was "Your guy Trump negotiated the withdrawal timetable with the Taliban", so there!

    I mean, wasn't Mr. Biden "fixing all of the damage done by Trump" starting with signing that stack of Executive Orders on January 20? "President Trump promised this so it is his fault!" seems like a partisan argument from someone about to be enrolled in the third grade in the K-12 education system? Since when is President Biden sticking to anything negotiated with President Trump.

    Yes, if it were up to him, President Trump would have already brought all of our gals and guys home from Afghanistan by now, but President Trump Listened to His Generals on this one. To be snarky, Mr. Trump did that every now and then. And sometimes, just sometimes, those generals know what they are talking about.

    And look how fast the Taliban is sweeping through the country. The guys we installed as "puppets" after expenditure of large numbers of lives and enormous amounts of money borrowed from China are weak and corrupt and if they cannot defend themselves after 20 years with all the help we gave them, however mismanaged according to some Internet know-it-all, let them deal with this situation.

    As if we hadn't been through this same exercise with Mr. Obama in Iraq, of pulling our forces because "they had been there long enough", and get this, "Iraq was the wrong war/theatre of operations and our focus needs to be on Afghanistan from where the 9-11 attacks were directed" or some such thing. Really.

    So again, how is that the Taliban is able to sweep through a country in the same style as ISIS? For starters, these dudes are pretty hardcore and brutal. Cue the Marlon Brando speech from the Francis Ford Coppola movie "were that we had 10 divisions of such (insanely brutal) men (willing to chop of the arms of children our Green Berets had vaccinated)." I have no idea if the Viet Cong ever perpetrated or the Taliban would perpetrate this specific, fictional atrocity, but you get the idea.

    In Iraq, Mr. Obama was whinging that the Iraqi government would not agree to not bring our soldiers before their civilian courts if they were in a hit-and-run accident with a Humvee or something, which is definitely not the concern here.

    Is anyone here defending Mr. Obama pulling the plug on a stable situation with US forces in Iraq, and action that led to widespread collapse and mayhem in the face of the "JV League" ISIS, which took Mr. Trump being elected and adroitly turning around? That Mr. Trump was able to repair what Mr. Obama broke, does that make him a Neo-con Bush acolyte beholden to his ethnic son-in-law? Maybe, just maybe, President Trump was, like, competent?

    And now we have to feed our Afghan allies into the wood chipper because President Trump made mean comments about silly people on social media? Does anyone here think that his replacement along with retainers, camp followers and hangers on constituting the current presidential administration in the least bit know what they are doing about anything?

    , @J.Ross
    @Henry Canaday

    And, it gets us near to China.
    But you don't get to have high level strategy if you can't steer a boat or keep a deadline.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Henry Canaday


    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S.
     
    Or we could just not permit people who obviously and openly hate our country to enter it. We could just not permit people from certain countries to come here. But that's just impossible for some reason. It's much cheaper to spend $ 2.2 trillion and thousands of lives on a failed campaign to run a foreign country that we don't eally even understand.

    Anyway, if you still believe the whole "They attacked us for our freedoms" narrative of 9/11 as embodied in the 9/11 commission report, you are naive. There was more to 9/11 than 19 Arab hijackers. It was not done without state support, and I'm not talking about the Taliban.

    And there was much more to our occupation of Afghanistan than either the BS reason given by our government, or the real-politik rationale that you stated.
    , @Morton's toes
    @Henry Canaday


    Realistic
     
    https://englishedithelp.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/words.jpg
    , @Desiderius
    @Henry Canaday

    That’s nice. Maybe turn your attention to the assholes looting trillions from the public fisc if you’d like to retain your small presences in the future.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Reg Cæsar

    , @J.Ross
    @Henry Canaday

    If this is true then why the "Airlift of Evil"?

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Henry Canaday


    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S.
     
    I've heard that explanation before, but unless we planned to stay forever, it was always going to return to "empty warehouse" status one day, it was just going to be a question of how much blood and treasure we would spend before that day. I any case, in 2001 when the Taliban was strong, it only took a few weeks, a few hundred special forces, and a few million dollars of suitcase money to flip the whole country to Northern Alliance/US control, which is far cheaper in every way than any year of the grinding and expensive occupation. So let 'em have the empty warehouse. If they cause problems, mount another raid.

    and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.
     
    That's a new one on me. I always thought that the Taliban was Pakistan's pet, not the other way around.

    The other main argument I typically heard for the absurd occupation were that the military-industrial complex didn't want it to end, which is obviously true but not sufficient IMHO, because much bigger and more profitable wars have ended much sooner, so why was Afghanistan different?

    More conspiratorially minded commenters said the Israel lobby wanted US forces bracketing neocon bugbear Iran on both east (Afghanistan) and west (Iraq). Perhaps, but as eastern Iran is pretty rugged and barren, an actual invasion of Iran would probably come from the west and the sea, and didn't happen anyway (yet).

    FWIW, here is how I remember things. After Operation Anaconda in 2002 rooted out the last actual Al Qaeda (remember them?) the Afghan occupation did go into something of a drawdown as attention switched to Iraq. But after feeling clobbered in the 2002 midterm elections, the Democrat party decided they had been too cooperative with the Bush administration, so they and their media allies (only 90% of media back then) switched to opposing the US intervention in Iraq. But to show that they weren't wussies for being antiwar, they had to build up a narrative where they supported the "good war" in Afghanistan while opposing the "bad war" in Iraq. You may recall John Kerry making schizophrenic rhetorical use of his war medals in his 2004 presidential campaign. Since Bush hung on to the White House, not much changed until the Obama campaign doubled down on this strategy in 2008. Obama had the advantage of not having voted for the Iraq war, so he could more credibly claim to oppose it, but therefore he needed a "positive intervention" to champion, and Afghanistan was it. His campaign and allied media (about 98% at this point) spiced it up with narratives of "protecting women's rights in Afghanistan" and other irrelevant bullcrap that supposedly appealed to soccer mom swing voters.

    Having won the election, the Obama administration duly proceeded to launch a pantomime war in Afghanistan with no real strategic goal other than making Obama look manly. US and allied troop commitments quadrupled or so and stayed that way for the duration of the Obama terms. This is when the most US blood and treasure was lost there. You can see the pointless Obama surge on page 6 of this Congressional report. Other than reporting "Obama standing firm" memes, the US media essentially stopped reporting on Afghanistan until ... Trump started talking about officially leaving Afghanistan. Then suddenly it was national security priority #1 that we not do what Trump said.

    tl;dr: a bunch of Americans got killed for a cynical Democrat-media domestic political ploy.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Peterike, @Henry's Cat, @Bill, @Charlotte

    , @notbe
    @Henry Canaday

    so why did the us regard pakistan as a reliable ally for the past sixty years-i mean the us almost went to war with india to save bangladesh as a pakistani colony in 71-a ridicilous reason for the us to go to war over but it did almost happen...and more telling why does the us still regard pakistan as an ally even today? i mean seriously the pakistani elites sheltered bin laden
    sometimes the us ruling class is an enigma wrapped in a mystery yadda yadda... seriously, who really knows what goes on in the minds of us elites

    , @Bill B.
    @Henry Canaday


    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.
     
    1) 9/11 was planned in Hamburg. Osama was merely asked to give it his blessing. Atta, the leader, was Egyptian. Most the attack team were Saudis.

    2) Pakistan has for decades attempted to 'direct' the Taliban with partial success. Pakistan could hardly be more anti-American.
    , @tanabear
    @Henry Canaday


    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S...
     
    This is a rehashing of the argument that Bush II made about the Iraq War; "we're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here." But how are these people supposed to get over here? There are only two ways, legal immigration or illegal immigration. As Bush II did not care about controlling either one of these I knew he was insincere.

    But even if you agree with the official story, which I don't, the hijackers received their flight training in America. It was America that gave them visas and trained them, not Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria or Libya.

    In reality, 9/11 was an inside job so Afghanistan was always a side-show.

    Replies: @S. Anonyia

    , @Barnard
    @Henry Canaday

    George W. Bush specifically talked in his second inaugural address about how it was the duty of the United States to bring freedom and liberty to people all over the world who were "yearning" for it. The small presence was meant to insure the transition between the old system and the gloriously democracy that was to be implemented in its place. His vision was completely ignorant of the history of the region.

    , @Bill
    @Henry Canaday

    Run along, now. Last time you kept the Dungeon Master waiting, your paladin had that bad experience with the army of syphilitic Orcs.

    , @Raven Lunatic
    @Henry Canaday

    like iraq, the reasoning given by the warmongers depended greatly on what they thought the intended audience wanted to hear. the conservative population was told horror stories about muh terr'ism and the liberal population was told about womens empowerment and saving minorities.

    , @tyrone
    @Henry Canaday

    Why don't you name ALL the countries where we "need" to retain a small military presence.

  13. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    Afghanistan was not used as a base for a murderous attack on the US. Why not nuke Israel instead…ever hear of the Samson option?

    9/11 was avoidable…completely.

    The Taliban is not Isis…in fact the Taliban and Isis hate each other…

    BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW?…This is an issue that affects me personally…

    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    @War for Blair Mountain

    You can justify an operation to send special forces into Afghanistan and kill Bin Laden…then get the hell out. But that was never the game plan. The Bush W Administration game-plane was a long term invade the world…invite the world occupation of Afghanistan.

    During late summer and the fall on the East End-North Shore on Long Island…..driving down 25 A…look to the right and you can see what looks like the Taliban…long scraggly beards…purple and white pajama…..A Taliban Family outing picking strawberries and blueberries on Harbes farm…They probably landed the previous day at JFK Airport….

    There was no need to for a 30 year 11 trillion US Military occupation of Muslim Nations….To have prevented a Isis-Taliban terrorist attack on US soil all that had to be done is:

    1)Implement a National Origins Immigration Policy…

    2)implement a policy of 0 Muslim Immigrstion forever…no half assed talk about moratoriums

    But why wasn’t this done?…Because Jennifer Rubin wants US DEAD!!!…And the Bush Family wants Muslim LEGAL Immigrants to come American to vote the Native White Christian Working Class into a violently White racial minority within the borders of America. Muslims are being brought into America for no other reason…1) and 2) would have prevented this from happening…

  14. HMG have sent 600 British troops to escort home diplomats, British citizens and Afghans who have helped Britain or the Afghan government. Invade. Invite.

    There is a real tragedy.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Gordo

    UK doesn’t even have to invite ... boatloads of migrants are arriving everyday. The RNLI have even become a ferry service for them.

  15. ” He has picked out a local beauty called Roxanne”

    So actually, it was a damn woman who did him in.

    Seriously though, at an individual level, TMWWbK illustrates from an individual standpoint, the destructive hubris humans are capable of in approaching a great many related* subjects, nation building is just one of them. Believing humans have a noticeable effect upon global climate is hubris, humans believing we can “defeat” a virus is hubris. Safety departments in companies like mine believe they can eliminate workplace accidents. And what do all these examples require in order to be successful? Imposing an ever increasing amount of rules, restrictions and oppressive authority on populations.

    *Natural occurring things, and nature always wins.

    Regarding Afghanistan, in the end all that was required was a SF dropped in on OBL’s location and that was it. We never needed thousands of regulars there and 100’s of billions spent on this useless occupation. We got a lot of young white men killed and upended a country for what? So the military globohomo conglomerate could get rich.

    • Replies: @Dnought
    @Mike Tre

    Actually we might not have even needed to do that. Pay off the right people in the Taliban and six months later Bin Laden miraculously pops up in your hands.

  16. Could we have had OBL at Tora Bora ? …..why then our casus belli would have been quenched ,in the first year….. he lived in a big house in Abbottabad ,down the road from the Pakistani military academy for how long…….gee whiz, no one knew ….. billions of dollars later a certain mulatto needed a tough – guy moment…..so, while we have another Saigon -helicopter- rooftop moment our fake president is wandering aimlessly on the White lawn like a fucking zombie. Hate to say it, but America deserves it ,and worse.

  17. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    Is it remotely possible to weight in with Mr. Biden (and Messrs. Blinken and Klain, too) being totally in this over their heads and not having a clue as to what they are doing?

    Is it possible to say this without being branded a Neo-con, Chicken Hawk or low-ranking officer in the Chair Borne?

    There is this guy “on another blog” commenting on what is purportedly his own name and claiming to be, don’t know, a public-policy attorney in the DC area. I guess he is a troll, or maybe more accurately, a Hasbara operative (I mean this in the generic sense, I doubt the State of Israel employs/deploys anyone that unsubtle and unsophisticated). His snappy comeback to “Biden is terrible” was “Your guy Trump negotiated the withdrawal timetable with the Taliban”, so there!

    I mean, wasn’t Mr. Biden “fixing all of the damage done by Trump” starting with signing that stack of Executive Orders on January 20? “President Trump promised this so it is his fault!” seems like a partisan argument from someone about to be enrolled in the third grade in the K-12 education system? Since when is President Biden sticking to anything negotiated with President Trump.

    Yes, if it were up to him, President Trump would have already brought all of our gals and guys home from Afghanistan by now, but President Trump Listened to His Generals on this one. To be snarky, Mr. Trump did that every now and then. And sometimes, just sometimes, those generals know what they are talking about.

    And look how fast the Taliban is sweeping through the country. The guys we installed as “puppets” after expenditure of large numbers of lives and enormous amounts of money borrowed from China are weak and corrupt and if they cannot defend themselves after 20 years with all the help we gave them, however mismanaged according to some Internet know-it-all, let them deal with this situation.

    As if we hadn’t been through this same exercise with Mr. Obama in Iraq, of pulling our forces because “they had been there long enough”, and get this, “Iraq was the wrong war/theatre of operations and our focus needs to be on Afghanistan from where the 9-11 attacks were directed” or some such thing. Really.

    So again, how is that the Taliban is able to sweep through a country in the same style as ISIS? For starters, these dudes are pretty hardcore and brutal. Cue the Marlon Brando speech from the Francis Ford Coppola movie “were that we had 10 divisions of such (insanely brutal) men (willing to chop of the arms of children our Green Berets had vaccinated).” I have no idea if the Viet Cong ever perpetrated or the Taliban would perpetrate this specific, fictional atrocity, but you get the idea.

    In Iraq, Mr. Obama was whinging that the Iraqi government would not agree to not bring our soldiers before their civilian courts if they were in a hit-and-run accident with a Humvee or something, which is definitely not the concern here.

    Is anyone here defending Mr. Obama pulling the plug on a stable situation with US forces in Iraq, and action that led to widespread collapse and mayhem in the face of the “JV League” ISIS, which took Mr. Trump being elected and adroitly turning around? That Mr. Trump was able to repair what Mr. Obama broke, does that make him a Neo-con Bush acolyte beholden to his ethnic son-in-law? Maybe, just maybe, President Trump was, like, competent?

    And now we have to feed our Afghan allies into the wood chipper because President Trump made mean comments about silly people on social media? Does anyone here think that his replacement along with retainers, camp followers and hangers on constituting the current presidential administration in the least bit know what they are doing about anything?

  18. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    And, it gets us near to China.
    But you don’t get to have high level strategy if you can’t steer a boat or keep a deadline.

  19. Do you like Kipling?

    I don’t know, I’ve never kippled.

    But hoary jokes aside, Mr K was top notch.

    A scrimmage in a Border Station-
    A canter down some dark defile
    Two thousand pounds of education
    Drops to a ten-rupee jezail.
    The Crammer’s boast, the Squadron’s pride,
    Shot like a rabbit in a ride!

    With home-bred hordes the hillsides teem.
    The troopships bring us one by one,
    At vast expense of time and steam,
    To slay Afridis where they run.
    The “captives of our bow and spear”
    Are cheap, alas! as we are dear.

  20. @War for Blair Mountain
    @Henry Canaday

    Afghanistan was not used as a base for a murderous attack on the US. Why not nuke Israel instead…ever hear of the Samson option?

    9/11 was avoidable…completely.

    The Taliban is not Isis…in fact the Taliban and Isis hate each other…

    BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW?…This is an issue that affects me personally…

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain

    You can justify an operation to send special forces into Afghanistan and kill Bin Laden…then get the hell out. But that was never the game plan. The Bush W Administration game-plane was a long term invade the world…invite the world occupation of Afghanistan.

    During late summer and the fall on the East End-North Shore on Long Island…..driving down 25 A…look to the right and you can see what looks like the Taliban…long scraggly beards…purple and white pajama…..A Taliban Family outing picking strawberries and blueberries on Harbes farm…They probably landed the previous day at JFK Airport….

    There was no need to for a 30 year 11 trillion US Military occupation of Muslim Nations….To have prevented a Isis-Taliban terrorist attack on US soil all that had to be done is:

    1)Implement a National Origins Immigration Policy…

    2)implement a policy of 0 Muslim Immigrstion forever…no half assed talk about moratoriums

    But why wasn’t this done?…Because Jennifer Rubin wants US DEAD!!!…And the Bush Family wants Muslim LEGAL Immigrants to come American to vote the Native White Christian Working Class into a violently White racial minority within the borders of America. Muslims are being brought into America for no other reason…1) and 2) would have prevented this from happening…

  21. Our rulers do a poor job ruling the US. We now worship George Floyd, trannies and gays; our women sterile and men politically cucked.

    We prosper in spite of, not because of, our rulers.

    Looks like we didn’t even come close to convincing the Afghans to embrace the blessings of Westernism.

    • Agree: fish
  22. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S.

    Or we could just not permit people who obviously and openly hate our country to enter it. We could just not permit people from certain countries to come here. But that’s just impossible for some reason. It’s much cheaper to spend \$ 2.2 trillion and thousands of lives on a failed campaign to run a foreign country that we don’t eally even understand.

    Anyway, if you still believe the whole “They attacked us for our freedoms” narrative of 9/11 as embodied in the 9/11 commission report, you are naive. There was more to 9/11 than 19 Arab hijackers. It was not done without state support, and I’m not talking about the Taliban.

    And there was much more to our occupation of Afghanistan than either the BS reason given by our government, or the real-politik rationale that you stated.

  23. Hmmm, I didn’t read your stuff back then, but I’m pretty sure I would have agreed with you at the time. In addition, I would have gotten and watched The Man Who Would Be King, which I will now proceed to do. Phrases such as “let’s not have another Vietnam” and the like were ones I heard and read and also agreed with at that time. (Who knew it’d be nearly twice as long, a whole generation?!)

    I can remember seeing a news story sometime not long before 9/11/01 about these Taliban guys shooting up big Buddha statues built into the hills. “Not my business”, I remember thinking.*

    Assuming the official story, what was our business after the fact? I’d say reforming our immigration system to reject people that hate our country from the country, and reversing the policy of disarming Americans who boarded airliners should have been the 2 domestic bullet points… in a sane country. Instead, the opposite was done.

    Now, per latest J. Derb post, we’re doing more inviting after the invading is over with and lost.

    .

    * It was only a few years since I’d been wondering WTF are we fighting on behalf of Moslems in the Balkins for? There’s quite a history of this Neocon warmaking since Reagan won the Cold War.

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Assuming the official story, what was our business after the fact?
     
    We must secure the existence of schools for Afghan girls so they can learn to read...

    https://static.dw.com/image/55614030_303.jpg

    And a future for Their Democracy™ in Afghanistan...

    https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/v1492200417/articles/2014/04/07/would-you-risk-your-life-to-vote-it-looks-like-7-million-afghans-did/140406-afghan-elections-tease_feegj9.jpg

    I mean,

    We must secure the existence of Poppies in the fields so we can supply the raw materials to produce the opium and fentanyl so our benevolent overlords can wage Opium War 3.0 against Americans here at home.

    https://publicintelligence.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/USopium7.png

    Umm, what I really mean is,

    Thar's rare earth minerals in them thar hills.

    https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/104659264-RTXV5TL-afghanistan.jpg

    Besides, the $2Trillion spent in Afghanistan over the last 20 years is good for the economy. (Surely you love the economy?) Think of all those missiles, bombs, guns, ammo, humvees, tanks, helicopters, fighter jets, the fuel to power them, etc. and all the wonderful jobs this wise policy provided.

    https://www.953mnc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/military-humvees.jpg

    Think about all that glorious GDPee.
    So much GDPee.

    Replies: @rebel yell, @Anonymous Jew, @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Oscar Peterson
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The Man Who Would Be King is a great movie.

    I always remember Michael Caine trying to teach British military drill to the locals:

    "Not after the others! Not before the others! With the bloody others!"

    Replies: @John Henry, @Achmed E. Newman

  24. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    Realistic

  25. I worry that those 3,000 combat troops Biden is flying into Kabul to secure the airport so higher ranking US officials can get out could become POWs or hostages. Initially, I thought the plan was to have Turkish soldiers secure the airport and some sort of diplomatic agreement cobbled together to allow the US to get out. Doesn’t seem Biden and Blinken were able to get that done. Instead we have an ad hoc operation thrown together to put 3, 000 US soldiers to secure that airport by the end of this weekend!

    The Taliban is rapidly closing in on Kabul. US M-777 howitzers of which I suspect we have supplied to the ANA have a range of 23 miles. The Taliban doesn’t have to overrun our airport garrison to trap them. Just start peppering those runways with 155 mm shells and , just like at Khe Sahn in the Vietnam war, they can prevent US aircraft from landing or taking off. Unlike at Khe Sahn, the US does not have unlimited airpower to hold the Taliban at bay and supply those 3000 troops via parachute drops of supplies.

    Biden’s ‘rescue operation’ might become another Dien Bien Phu instead of the battle of Khe Sahn.

    • Replies: @SafeNow
    @Unit472

    “I worry that those 3,000 combat troops Biden is flying into Kabul to secure the airport so higher ranking US officials can get out could become POWs or hostages.”

    I suspect that the “pallets of cash” protocol is being renewed right now. If not actually delivering the pallets, quiet discussions are underway about pallets for “rebuilding” being delivered later if you are measured in your actions now. The only problem with this plan is that the Taliban are so disjointed that quiet discussions will not get the word out.

    Replies: @Greta Handel, @Unit472

  26. • Replies: @Anon
    @Desiderius

    Boomers have got to be strategically neutralized and demonetized. They have left this country a smoking pile of rubble for future generations to inherit, and they still cling to power, as if there's still more they want to destroy. They cannot be allowed to get away with this continued criminal mismanagement of the world.

    , @Dan Hayes
    @Desiderius

    The wonders of photoshopping! Thanks!!

    Replies: @Desiderius

  27. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    That’s nice. Maybe turn your attention to the assholes looting trillions from the public fisc if you’d like to retain your small presences in the future.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
    • Thanks: Greta Handel
    • Troll: Inquiring Mind
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Desiderius

    Damned straight I'm trolling on this horseshit. Why aren't you?

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Desiderius


    That’s nice. Maybe turn your attention to the 🦓🕳️🕳️ looting trillions from the public 👜 if you’d like to retain your small presences in the future.

     

    That's a harsh way of referring to your grandmother's Social Security check. (And I supported Goldwater as a child.)
  28. The experts made a silly prediction about Afghanistan.

    Are these these the same fellas that sold us the “two week” shut down to crush Covid? But hey, maybe we made a few 80 year old queer folk singers feel safer.

    Pete Seeger would agree.

  29. Anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/DarnelSugarfoo/status/1426380279065636865?s=20

    Replies: @Anon, @Dan Hayes

    Boomers have got to be strategically neutralized and demonetized. They have left this country a smoking pile of rubble for future generations to inherit, and they still cling to power, as if there’s still more they want to destroy. They cannot be allowed to get away with this continued criminal mismanagement of the world.

  30. The US Military (maybe the whole US Govt) is primarily a jobs program for minorities, women, well connected grifters, accompanied by the occasional patriot who still labors under the idea that he is helping a worthwhile effort. This was never going to work.

  31. I guess it’s not called the graveyard of empires for nothing. The rotting hulk of our (former) empire has almost been picked clean by the (((buzzards))).

    • Agree: Adam Smith
  32. For me it was reading James Michener’s Caravans, which I read as a freshman in college about 1970. Somewhere in that book it was declared that Iran was about 50 years ahead of Afghanistan in becoming a modern country. But then came 1979, and those 50 years all vanished as Muslims took over and brought them back to the stone age.

    • Replies: @Hangnail Hans
    @John Pepple

    https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/tohid-tunnel-tehran-night-taken-january-hdr-141681658.jpg

    , @WJ
    @John Pepple

    The CIA overthrew an elected Iranian government in 53 and installed a murderous, torturing tyrant for over 25 years. I would hope the American people would have the same reaction as the Iranians had in 79 if it had happened to us. It didn't help that the next year that the USA encouraged Saddam to attack Iran and then later helped him build chemical weapons to kill even more Iranians. Despite all of that plus crushing sanctions, the Iranians have progressed well.

    , @James Speaks
    @John Pepple


    But then came 1979, and those 50 years all vanished as Muslims took over and brought them back to the stone age.
     
    This explains, of course, why Iran is incapable of designing and building thousands upon thousands of rockets to keep the IDF at bay.

    Replies: @John Pepple

    , @Thea
    @John Pepple

    1979 was a reaction against American dominance and Western secular anomie . It was a return to a meaningful and purpose driven way of life where economic progress is not treated as the only god to worship. Iranian women aren’t the ones weighing 300 lbs popping anti-depressants while living all alone.

  33. It seems a large part of the military brass continued to advocate for our presence in Afghanistan a) to burnish their credentials with a combat zone command, which are key to promotion and b) to please potential future paymasters in the military contractor industry.

    The incompetency and fecklessness of our intelligence services and military has to be a huge blackpill for a lot of conservatives. There is no part of our federal government that is fit for the responsibilities it is entrusted with, and it’s clear that they have been captured by the woke jihadists, or at least in the military’s case lack the spine to refuse to play along.

    On the plus side, perhaps it’s liberating to know that there is no major institution in America today that doesn’t deserve to be put to the torch. If the right manages to regain control of the WH and part of Congress again, make mass firings a priority and jump on reforming personnel regulations that allowed this rot to occur in the first place.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Arclight

    The right did this and are continuing to do so.

    , @AKAHorace
    @Arclight


    The incompetency and fecklessness of our intelligence services and military has to be a huge blackpill for a lot of conservatives. There is no part of our federal government that is fit for the responsibilities it is entrusted with, and it’s clear that they have been captured by the woke jihadists, or at least in the military’s case lack the spine to refuse to play along.
     
    What is happening in Afghanistan is a political not a military disaster. The US army can fight and defeat the Taliban but the US cannot establish or enable a regime that Afghans are willing to fight for. I don't think that this was inevitable as before 2001 there were Afghans who were willing to fight the Taliban and who kept it out of parts of Northern Afghanistan, now these same areas have quickly fallen to the Taliban. Is is because the west tried to change Afghanistan too much or because not enough was done to change things ?
    , @Mike1
    @Arclight

    The staggering incompetence this is revealing is shocking. Its been obvious for a long time that the "training" in Afghanistan was mostly fake but I assumed there were pockets of reality mixed in. Instead the entire 20 years was just a farce. Every person there must have known. It is impossible for a collapse of this magnitude to happen without all the pieces being in place beforehand.

    Until recently I thought the idea of China beating us militarily was impossible. Now I have no idea. The body language of the troops going in to rescue the embassy staff is appalling. If they get into a firefight I think they are likely to take heavy casualties. They are even sending a mousy looking girl wearing glasses! Its not remotely unlikely they could face a real fight if the Taliban decide to prove a point.

  34. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    If this is true then why the “Airlift of Evil”?

  35. The subject of Afghanistan just reminded me of another all-time great Sailerism: Strategic gravel reserves.

  36. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/DarnelSugarfoo/status/1426380279065636865?s=20

    Replies: @Anon, @Dan Hayes

    The wonders of photoshopping! Thanks!!

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Dan Hayes

    Photoshop?

    The eyes are the windows to the soul. Ain’t a shop in the world can touch what’s already there on that guy.

  37. Steve Sailer, you were right. Not many were saying what you said, then. Well done, sir.

    • Agree: Old Prude
    • Replies: @notbe
    @Tom F.

    yes...and remember back then there was a feeling of invincibility to US power

    Replies: @Tom F.

  38. IT’S PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
    Just kidding, seed oils are of course haram.

    • Replies: @Hangnail Hans
    @J.Ross

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/how-will-the-press-spin-thursdays-census-announcement-of-a-declining-number-of-whites/#comment-4835756

    , @Kjr
    @J.Ross

    Thank you for this. I'm not much for worrying about the geopolitics of Pathanistan but watching a happy man dance like an imbecile is a good time.

    I wish we had more of these videos and fewer moralistic demands that we mourn something or other.

    So long as nobody is being tortured in the background, I would like to see as many happily dancing Afghans as possible.

    Any suggestions for me?

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @J.Ross

    Better still, these happy Talibanis dancing, some pretty cool moves and hardware.

    Alas some naughty boy has replaced the original soundtrack with the Chilean feminist anthem “Un violador en tu camino” (“A rapist in your path”).

    https://twitter.com/AquaRevolucion/status/1426609976022347778


    https://qz.com/1758765/chiles-viral-feminist-flash-mob-is-spreading-around-the-world/

  39. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S.

    I’ve heard that explanation before, but unless we planned to stay forever, it was always going to return to “empty warehouse” status one day, it was just going to be a question of how much blood and treasure we would spend before that day. I any case, in 2001 when the Taliban was strong, it only took a few weeks, a few hundred special forces, and a few million dollars of suitcase money to flip the whole country to Northern Alliance/US control, which is far cheaper in every way than any year of the grinding and expensive occupation. So let ’em have the empty warehouse. If they cause problems, mount another raid.

    and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    That’s a new one on me. I always thought that the Taliban was Pakistan’s pet, not the other way around.

    The other main argument I typically heard for the absurd occupation were that the military-industrial complex didn’t want it to end, which is obviously true but not sufficient IMHO, because much bigger and more profitable wars have ended much sooner, so why was Afghanistan different?

    More conspiratorially minded commenters said the Israel lobby wanted US forces bracketing neocon bugbear Iran on both east (Afghanistan) and west (Iraq). Perhaps, but as eastern Iran is pretty rugged and barren, an actual invasion of Iran would probably come from the west and the sea, and didn’t happen anyway (yet).

    FWIW, here is how I remember things. After Operation Anaconda in 2002 rooted out the last actual Al Qaeda (remember them?) the Afghan occupation did go into something of a drawdown as attention switched to Iraq. But after feeling clobbered in the 2002 midterm elections, the Democrat party decided they had been too cooperative with the Bush administration, so they and their media allies (only 90% of media back then) switched to opposing the US intervention in Iraq. But to show that they weren’t wussies for being antiwar, they had to build up a narrative where they supported the “good war” in Afghanistan while opposing the “bad war” in Iraq. You may recall John Kerry making schizophrenic rhetorical use of his war medals in his 2004 presidential campaign. Since Bush hung on to the White House, not much changed until the Obama campaign doubled down on this strategy in 2008. Obama had the advantage of not having voted for the Iraq war, so he could more credibly claim to oppose it, but therefore he needed a “positive intervention” to champion, and Afghanistan was it. His campaign and allied media (about 98% at this point) spiced it up with narratives of “protecting women’s rights in Afghanistan” and other irrelevant bullcrap that supposedly appealed to soccer mom swing voters.

    Having won the election, the Obama administration duly proceeded to launch a pantomime war in Afghanistan with no real strategic goal other than making Obama look manly. US and allied troop commitments quadrupled or so and stayed that way for the duration of the Obama terms. This is when the most US blood and treasure was lost there. You can see the pointless Obama surge on page 6 of this Congressional report. Other than reporting “Obama standing firm” memes, the US media essentially stopped reporting on Afghanistan until … Trump started talking about officially leaving Afghanistan. Then suddenly it was national security priority #1 that we not do what Trump said.

    tl;dr: a bunch of Americans got killed for a cynical Democrat-media domestic political ploy.

    • Thanks: Harry Baldwin, Cato
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Almost Missouri


    More conspiratorially minded commenters said the Israel lobby wanted...
     
    >>>More conspiratorially minded commenters<<< (If >>>more conspiratorially minded commenters<<< can have their own special parentheses so can I) blame the "Israel lobby" when the milk in the fridge of their trailer goes off.
    , @Peterike
    @Almost Missouri

    “ proceeded to launch a pantomime war in Afghanistan with no real strategic goal other than making Obama look manly.”

    100% true. But think about it. There’s a stack of dead and maimed American bodies who exist solely because the faggoty Obama needed to look tough.

    The monstrousness of our elites cannot be overstated. Yet they never have any consequences to pay.

    Replies: @rebel yell

    , @Henry's Cat
    @Almost Missouri


    I always thought that the Taliban was Pakistan’s pet, not the other way around.
     
    An Afghan refugee caller to a radio phone-in I heard the other day made just this point in quite excitable terms. The host let him have his say but didn't pass any comment and the rest of the conversation moved back to how bad the Taliban were going to be, what the West could do, etc. That reflects nearly all the MSM coverage I've witnessed over the last few days. I don't know if this means that neo-con forces hold great sway in the media or whether the banality of liberalism is now so ingrained that they're simply unable to think critically about such matters.
    , @Bill
    @Almost Missouri

    It's the Democrats' fault that Bush the Lesser invaded and tried to colonize Afghanistan. So, get to the polls and vote for the GOP. It's our only hope!

    Replies: @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @Marquis

    , @Charlotte
    @Almost Missouri

    One theory I’ve read is that the US wanted Afghanistan as a client state for its strategic position vis a vis Russia and China. This makes a certain amount of sense to me. However, I’m not ruling out the power of incredible ignorance/arrogance in keeping us there for twenty years, either.

    Why so many elite thinkers managed to convince themselves that very old, very alien cultures would welcome our attempts to remake them in the image of modern America will always baffle me. Honestly, when I see what we’ve made of our own culture, I have difficulty imagining why anyone would want to imitate our way of life. That’s the rub-you can’t really have democracy without a regard for individual importance and autonomy that diminishes the importance of family, clan, and religious leadership. Our attempts to export it can be viewed, not wrongly, as an attack on the proper ordering of (their) society.

    Replies: @Prof. Woland, @Paperback Writer

  40. @Desiderius
    @Henry Canaday

    That’s nice. Maybe turn your attention to the assholes looting trillions from the public fisc if you’d like to retain your small presences in the future.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Reg Cæsar

    Damned straight I’m trolling on this horseshit. Why aren’t you?

  41. I’d love to see this broken down by religion as well.

  42. @Dan Hayes
    @Desiderius

    The wonders of photoshopping! Thanks!!

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Photoshop?

    The eyes are the windows to the soul. Ain’t a shop in the world can touch what’s already there on that guy.

    • Thanks: Dan Hayes
  43. @Arclight
    It seems a large part of the military brass continued to advocate for our presence in Afghanistan a) to burnish their credentials with a combat zone command, which are key to promotion and b) to please potential future paymasters in the military contractor industry.

    The incompetency and fecklessness of our intelligence services and military has to be a huge blackpill for a lot of conservatives. There is no part of our federal government that is fit for the responsibilities it is entrusted with, and it's clear that they have been captured by the woke jihadists, or at least in the military's case lack the spine to refuse to play along.

    On the plus side, perhaps it's liberating to know that there is no major institution in America today that doesn't deserve to be put to the torch. If the right manages to regain control of the WH and part of Congress again, make mass firings a priority and jump on reforming personnel regulations that allowed this rot to occur in the first place.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @AKAHorace, @Mike1

    The right did this and are continuing to do so.

    • Agree: Yancey Ward
  44. Just going to leave this for your consideration:

    https://www.claimsjournal.com/news/national/2013/12/04/240881.htm

    “There were 4,479 motor vehicle-related deaths among service members during the 14-year surveillance period from 1999 through 2012.”

    So that’s more deaths from motor vehicle accidents in 14 years that there were combat deaths in 20 years in Afghanistan. Things that make you go hmmm…

    Now, it’s all well and good for the arm chair generals and wannabe foreign policy experts to start stroking themselves off talking about “muh graveyard of empires” and “muh nation building is doomed.” But that’s not very productive is it? It hasn’t been productive over the last 20 years when that’s virtually all that was said or written about Afghanistan and no policy or action changed. Everyone went along with the war and everyone stroked themselves off being blackpilled and seeing some sort of inevitable tragedy or failure that was sure to happen in the end. If that’s the narrative your country chooses to believe about itself, then how could it be any other way? That was the attitude when I was there 10 years ago, and it took 10 years for congress and the government to finally follow through with the narrative they sold themselves. Pretty inefficient.

    Maybe they should have thought a little harder and asked better questions and come up with a more productive narrative. There are, for example, four generally accepted elements of national power- diplomatic, information, military, and economic. Why is it that the US only seems to be able to advance any agenda through the military element? Why was the information (the Narrative) aligned against the success of military efforts? Why can’t the department of state exercise diplomatic or economic power to advance the Unites States’ agendas? I don’t have answers to all of these questions, but I have a few ideas. Answering these questions would be a much better use of everyone’s time than the blackpilled, brainlet autosuck of “muh graveyard of empires.” Bcause history can teach you lessons, but there are always new and painful lessons to be learned that history hasn’t taught anyone yet. Better to ask the right questions and avoid those lessons.

  45. One is reminded that, because the Afghani people breed like rodents, a stable and peaceful Afghanistan is impossible. It has been, and until its culture changes, it will always be a cesspool of misery and corruption and violence.

    We hear about the ‘demographic transition,’ where markets etc. create prosperity and then people reduce their fertility rate. That’s a lie. The Iron Law of Development is that FIRST people stop having the physical maximum of children they possibly can THEN – if markets etc. are halfway sane – they can accumulate per-capita wealth. Unless there is an open frontier, never the other way around.

    Taliban-style theocracy, democracy, socialism, autocracy, monarchy, anarcho-syndicalism… none of these matter! Because no political philosophy can make physically impossible things happen.

  46. @Arclight
    It seems a large part of the military brass continued to advocate for our presence in Afghanistan a) to burnish their credentials with a combat zone command, which are key to promotion and b) to please potential future paymasters in the military contractor industry.

    The incompetency and fecklessness of our intelligence services and military has to be a huge blackpill for a lot of conservatives. There is no part of our federal government that is fit for the responsibilities it is entrusted with, and it's clear that they have been captured by the woke jihadists, or at least in the military's case lack the spine to refuse to play along.

    On the plus side, perhaps it's liberating to know that there is no major institution in America today that doesn't deserve to be put to the torch. If the right manages to regain control of the WH and part of Congress again, make mass firings a priority and jump on reforming personnel regulations that allowed this rot to occur in the first place.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @AKAHorace, @Mike1

    The incompetency and fecklessness of our intelligence services and military has to be a huge blackpill for a lot of conservatives. There is no part of our federal government that is fit for the responsibilities it is entrusted with, and it’s clear that they have been captured by the woke jihadists, or at least in the military’s case lack the spine to refuse to play along.

    What is happening in Afghanistan is a political not a military disaster. The US army can fight and defeat the Taliban but the US cannot establish or enable a regime that Afghans are willing to fight for. I don’t think that this was inevitable as before 2001 there were Afghans who were willing to fight the Taliban and who kept it out of parts of Northern Afghanistan, now these same areas have quickly fallen to the Taliban. Is is because the west tried to change Afghanistan too much or because not enough was done to change things ?

  47. @Almost Missouri
    @Henry Canaday


    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S.
     
    I've heard that explanation before, but unless we planned to stay forever, it was always going to return to "empty warehouse" status one day, it was just going to be a question of how much blood and treasure we would spend before that day. I any case, in 2001 when the Taliban was strong, it only took a few weeks, a few hundred special forces, and a few million dollars of suitcase money to flip the whole country to Northern Alliance/US control, which is far cheaper in every way than any year of the grinding and expensive occupation. So let 'em have the empty warehouse. If they cause problems, mount another raid.

    and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.
     
    That's a new one on me. I always thought that the Taliban was Pakistan's pet, not the other way around.

    The other main argument I typically heard for the absurd occupation were that the military-industrial complex didn't want it to end, which is obviously true but not sufficient IMHO, because much bigger and more profitable wars have ended much sooner, so why was Afghanistan different?

    More conspiratorially minded commenters said the Israel lobby wanted US forces bracketing neocon bugbear Iran on both east (Afghanistan) and west (Iraq). Perhaps, but as eastern Iran is pretty rugged and barren, an actual invasion of Iran would probably come from the west and the sea, and didn't happen anyway (yet).

    FWIW, here is how I remember things. After Operation Anaconda in 2002 rooted out the last actual Al Qaeda (remember them?) the Afghan occupation did go into something of a drawdown as attention switched to Iraq. But after feeling clobbered in the 2002 midterm elections, the Democrat party decided they had been too cooperative with the Bush administration, so they and their media allies (only 90% of media back then) switched to opposing the US intervention in Iraq. But to show that they weren't wussies for being antiwar, they had to build up a narrative where they supported the "good war" in Afghanistan while opposing the "bad war" in Iraq. You may recall John Kerry making schizophrenic rhetorical use of his war medals in his 2004 presidential campaign. Since Bush hung on to the White House, not much changed until the Obama campaign doubled down on this strategy in 2008. Obama had the advantage of not having voted for the Iraq war, so he could more credibly claim to oppose it, but therefore he needed a "positive intervention" to champion, and Afghanistan was it. His campaign and allied media (about 98% at this point) spiced it up with narratives of "protecting women's rights in Afghanistan" and other irrelevant bullcrap that supposedly appealed to soccer mom swing voters.

    Having won the election, the Obama administration duly proceeded to launch a pantomime war in Afghanistan with no real strategic goal other than making Obama look manly. US and allied troop commitments quadrupled or so and stayed that way for the duration of the Obama terms. This is when the most US blood and treasure was lost there. You can see the pointless Obama surge on page 6 of this Congressional report. Other than reporting "Obama standing firm" memes, the US media essentially stopped reporting on Afghanistan until ... Trump started talking about officially leaving Afghanistan. Then suddenly it was national security priority #1 that we not do what Trump said.

    tl;dr: a bunch of Americans got killed for a cynical Democrat-media domestic political ploy.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Peterike, @Henry's Cat, @Bill, @Charlotte

    More conspiratorially minded commenters said the Israel lobby wanted…

    >>>More conspiratorially minded commenters<<< (If >>>more conspiratorially minded commenters<<< can have their own special parentheses so can I) blame the "Israel lobby" when the milk in the fridge of their trailer goes off.

    • Troll: Charon
  48. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    so why did the us regard pakistan as a reliable ally for the past sixty years-i mean the us almost went to war with india to save bangladesh as a pakistani colony in 71-a ridicilous reason for the us to go to war over but it did almost happen…and more telling why does the us still regard pakistan as an ally even today? i mean seriously the pakistani elites sheltered bin laden
    sometimes the us ruling class is an enigma wrapped in a mystery yadda yadda… seriously, who really knows what goes on in the minds of us elites

  49. @Arclight
    It seems a large part of the military brass continued to advocate for our presence in Afghanistan a) to burnish their credentials with a combat zone command, which are key to promotion and b) to please potential future paymasters in the military contractor industry.

    The incompetency and fecklessness of our intelligence services and military has to be a huge blackpill for a lot of conservatives. There is no part of our federal government that is fit for the responsibilities it is entrusted with, and it's clear that they have been captured by the woke jihadists, or at least in the military's case lack the spine to refuse to play along.

    On the plus side, perhaps it's liberating to know that there is no major institution in America today that doesn't deserve to be put to the torch. If the right manages to regain control of the WH and part of Congress again, make mass firings a priority and jump on reforming personnel regulations that allowed this rot to occur in the first place.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @AKAHorace, @Mike1

    The staggering incompetence this is revealing is shocking. Its been obvious for a long time that the “training” in Afghanistan was mostly fake but I assumed there were pockets of reality mixed in. Instead the entire 20 years was just a farce. Every person there must have known. It is impossible for a collapse of this magnitude to happen without all the pieces being in place beforehand.

    Until recently I thought the idea of China beating us militarily was impossible. Now I have no idea. The body language of the troops going in to rescue the embassy staff is appalling. If they get into a firefight I think they are likely to take heavy casualties. They are even sending a mousy looking girl wearing glasses! Its not remotely unlikely they could face a real fight if the Taliban decide to prove a point.

  50. We are loosing our foothold in the greater Caspian region.

    Which strikes me as good. Let the global east sort it out.

  51. Afghanistan is spelled O P I U M.

    Those plane loads of the stuff flying out every month (week, day?) Enriched the entire political class and top military brass for 20 years.

    Worth staying for, to them.

  52. I have an honest question:

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Serious answers only.

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @Yancey Ward
    @Paperback Writer

    You got me stumped.

    , @donut
    @Paperback Writer

    Tits on a boar .

    , @J.Ross
    @Paperback Writer

    Our current gaggle of flag grade officers.
    Masking, lockdowns, and experimental gene therapy.
    Our current border policing efforts.
    The American Dollar.
    ...
    Could go on.

    , @anon
    @Paperback Writer

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Do you have a mirror?

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    , @Che Blutarsky
    @Paperback Writer

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    There is one party who's elected officials hate you and don't care what happens to you.

    There is the other party who's elected officials hate you, are actively plotting your destruction, and dream of your violent end.

    , @Prof. Woland
    @Paperback Writer

    It is time to cancel feminism both here and abroad. For some reason they are treated as sacrosanct when they are not. If Gloria Steinem wants to go teach at a girls school in Kandahar with her own money, I am not stopping her but we have lost enough young white men and I have better things to spend my money on than war and single mothers.

    , @fish
    @Paperback Writer

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?


    Trick question.....there’s nothing more worthless than the Republican Party!

    , @John Johnson
    @Paperback Writer

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Serious answers only.

    The California Republican Party.

    , @Midnights
    @Paperback Writer

    Gas station vending machine condom?

    Nice boobs on a nun?

    , @Mike_from_SGV
    @Paperback Writer

    Bibles in a woke leftist church.

  53. 1989: Russia pulls out of Afghanistan.

    1991: USSR falls apart.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    @Paperback Writer

    In related news, wet streets cause rain.

  54. @Paperback Writer
    I have an honest question:

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Serious answers only.

    Thanks.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @donut, @J.Ross, @anon, @Che Blutarsky, @Prof. Woland, @fish, @John Johnson, @Midnights, @Mike_from_SGV

    You got me stumped.

    • Agree: Voltarde
  55. @Paperback Writer
    I have an honest question:

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Serious answers only.

    Thanks.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @donut, @J.Ross, @anon, @Che Blutarsky, @Prof. Woland, @fish, @John Johnson, @Midnights, @Mike_from_SGV

    Tits on a boar .

  56. @Almost Missouri
    @Henry Canaday


    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S.
     
    I've heard that explanation before, but unless we planned to stay forever, it was always going to return to "empty warehouse" status one day, it was just going to be a question of how much blood and treasure we would spend before that day. I any case, in 2001 when the Taliban was strong, it only took a few weeks, a few hundred special forces, and a few million dollars of suitcase money to flip the whole country to Northern Alliance/US control, which is far cheaper in every way than any year of the grinding and expensive occupation. So let 'em have the empty warehouse. If they cause problems, mount another raid.

    and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.
     
    That's a new one on me. I always thought that the Taliban was Pakistan's pet, not the other way around.

    The other main argument I typically heard for the absurd occupation were that the military-industrial complex didn't want it to end, which is obviously true but not sufficient IMHO, because much bigger and more profitable wars have ended much sooner, so why was Afghanistan different?

    More conspiratorially minded commenters said the Israel lobby wanted US forces bracketing neocon bugbear Iran on both east (Afghanistan) and west (Iraq). Perhaps, but as eastern Iran is pretty rugged and barren, an actual invasion of Iran would probably come from the west and the sea, and didn't happen anyway (yet).

    FWIW, here is how I remember things. After Operation Anaconda in 2002 rooted out the last actual Al Qaeda (remember them?) the Afghan occupation did go into something of a drawdown as attention switched to Iraq. But after feeling clobbered in the 2002 midterm elections, the Democrat party decided they had been too cooperative with the Bush administration, so they and their media allies (only 90% of media back then) switched to opposing the US intervention in Iraq. But to show that they weren't wussies for being antiwar, they had to build up a narrative where they supported the "good war" in Afghanistan while opposing the "bad war" in Iraq. You may recall John Kerry making schizophrenic rhetorical use of his war medals in his 2004 presidential campaign. Since Bush hung on to the White House, not much changed until the Obama campaign doubled down on this strategy in 2008. Obama had the advantage of not having voted for the Iraq war, so he could more credibly claim to oppose it, but therefore he needed a "positive intervention" to champion, and Afghanistan was it. His campaign and allied media (about 98% at this point) spiced it up with narratives of "protecting women's rights in Afghanistan" and other irrelevant bullcrap that supposedly appealed to soccer mom swing voters.

    Having won the election, the Obama administration duly proceeded to launch a pantomime war in Afghanistan with no real strategic goal other than making Obama look manly. US and allied troop commitments quadrupled or so and stayed that way for the duration of the Obama terms. This is when the most US blood and treasure was lost there. You can see the pointless Obama surge on page 6 of this Congressional report. Other than reporting "Obama standing firm" memes, the US media essentially stopped reporting on Afghanistan until ... Trump started talking about officially leaving Afghanistan. Then suddenly it was national security priority #1 that we not do what Trump said.

    tl;dr: a bunch of Americans got killed for a cynical Democrat-media domestic political ploy.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Peterike, @Henry's Cat, @Bill, @Charlotte

    “ proceeded to launch a pantomime war in Afghanistan with no real strategic goal other than making Obama look manly.”

    100% true. But think about it. There’s a stack of dead and maimed American bodies who exist solely because the faggoty Obama needed to look tough.

    The monstrousness of our elites cannot be overstated. Yet they never have any consequences to pay.

    • Agree: Adam Smith
    • Replies: @rebel yell
    @Peterike


    The monstrousness of our elites cannot be overstated. Yet they never have any consequences to pay.
     
    The causal direction is:
    They never have any consequences to pay, therefore they are monsters.
  57. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    1) 9/11 was planned in Hamburg. Osama was merely asked to give it his blessing. Atta, the leader, was Egyptian. Most the attack team were Saudis.

    2) Pakistan has for decades attempted to ‘direct’ the Taliban with partial success. Pakistan could hardly be more anti-American.

  58. With all the kick-ass women Hollywood has given us for the past decades, a really, really Woke POTUS should have ordered that all those kick-ass young females growing in Afghan be given ROTC training and basic infantry skills. Instead of for-show women with Kalasnikovs, they could have motivated village defense militia armed with RPGs, M4 rifles, mortars and the like. What could be cheaper than a Browning .50 M2HB mounted on a American pickup truck manned by the locals, as compared to all that stuff we left?

  59. @Paperback Writer
    1989: Russia pulls out of Afghanistan.

    1991: USSR falls apart.

    Replies: @NOTA

    In related news, wet streets cause rain.

  60. @Paperback Writer
    I have an honest question:

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Serious answers only.

    Thanks.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @donut, @J.Ross, @anon, @Che Blutarsky, @Prof. Woland, @fish, @John Johnson, @Midnights, @Mike_from_SGV

    Our current gaggle of flag grade officers.
    Masking, lockdowns, and experimental gene therapy.
    Our current border policing efforts.
    The American Dollar.

    Could go on.

  61. @Almost Missouri
    @Henry Canaday


    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S.
     
    I've heard that explanation before, but unless we planned to stay forever, it was always going to return to "empty warehouse" status one day, it was just going to be a question of how much blood and treasure we would spend before that day. I any case, in 2001 when the Taliban was strong, it only took a few weeks, a few hundred special forces, and a few million dollars of suitcase money to flip the whole country to Northern Alliance/US control, which is far cheaper in every way than any year of the grinding and expensive occupation. So let 'em have the empty warehouse. If they cause problems, mount another raid.

    and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.
     
    That's a new one on me. I always thought that the Taliban was Pakistan's pet, not the other way around.

    The other main argument I typically heard for the absurd occupation were that the military-industrial complex didn't want it to end, which is obviously true but not sufficient IMHO, because much bigger and more profitable wars have ended much sooner, so why was Afghanistan different?

    More conspiratorially minded commenters said the Israel lobby wanted US forces bracketing neocon bugbear Iran on both east (Afghanistan) and west (Iraq). Perhaps, but as eastern Iran is pretty rugged and barren, an actual invasion of Iran would probably come from the west and the sea, and didn't happen anyway (yet).

    FWIW, here is how I remember things. After Operation Anaconda in 2002 rooted out the last actual Al Qaeda (remember them?) the Afghan occupation did go into something of a drawdown as attention switched to Iraq. But after feeling clobbered in the 2002 midterm elections, the Democrat party decided they had been too cooperative with the Bush administration, so they and their media allies (only 90% of media back then) switched to opposing the US intervention in Iraq. But to show that they weren't wussies for being antiwar, they had to build up a narrative where they supported the "good war" in Afghanistan while opposing the "bad war" in Iraq. You may recall John Kerry making schizophrenic rhetorical use of his war medals in his 2004 presidential campaign. Since Bush hung on to the White House, not much changed until the Obama campaign doubled down on this strategy in 2008. Obama had the advantage of not having voted for the Iraq war, so he could more credibly claim to oppose it, but therefore he needed a "positive intervention" to champion, and Afghanistan was it. His campaign and allied media (about 98% at this point) spiced it up with narratives of "protecting women's rights in Afghanistan" and other irrelevant bullcrap that supposedly appealed to soccer mom swing voters.

    Having won the election, the Obama administration duly proceeded to launch a pantomime war in Afghanistan with no real strategic goal other than making Obama look manly. US and allied troop commitments quadrupled or so and stayed that way for the duration of the Obama terms. This is when the most US blood and treasure was lost there. You can see the pointless Obama surge on page 6 of this Congressional report. Other than reporting "Obama standing firm" memes, the US media essentially stopped reporting on Afghanistan until ... Trump started talking about officially leaving Afghanistan. Then suddenly it was national security priority #1 that we not do what Trump said.

    tl;dr: a bunch of Americans got killed for a cynical Democrat-media domestic political ploy.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Peterike, @Henry's Cat, @Bill, @Charlotte

    I always thought that the Taliban was Pakistan’s pet, not the other way around.

    An Afghan refugee caller to a radio phone-in I heard the other day made just this point in quite excitable terms. The host let him have his say but didn’t pass any comment and the rest of the conversation moved back to how bad the Taliban were going to be, what the West could do, etc. That reflects nearly all the MSM coverage I’ve witnessed over the last few days. I don’t know if this means that neo-con forces hold great sway in the media or whether the banality of liberalism is now so ingrained that they’re simply unable to think critically about such matters.

  62. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S…

    This is a rehashing of the argument that Bush II made about the Iraq War; “we’re fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them here.” But how are these people supposed to get over here? There are only two ways, legal immigration or illegal immigration. As Bush II did not care about controlling either one of these I knew he was insincere.

    But even if you agree with the official story, which I don’t, the hijackers received their flight training in America. It was America that gave them visas and trained them, not Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria or Libya.

    In reality, 9/11 was an inside job so Afghanistan was always a side-show.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    @tanabear

    Yep, four of the hijackers had addresses tying them to the naval air station base near Pensacola. I believe the remainder trained somewhere in South Florida. Allegedly they did not receive navy training, but why exactly were they living on the base in 2000?

  63. @Paperback Writer
    I have an honest question:

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Serious answers only.

    Thanks.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @donut, @J.Ross, @anon, @Che Blutarsky, @Prof. Woland, @fish, @John Johnson, @Midnights, @Mike_from_SGV

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Do you have a mirror?

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @anon

    They need you back home in Haiti.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  64. “Rubble doesn’t make trouble” – John Derbyshire, 2001.

  65. No I think Biden is making the right decision here. The only thing that the troops over there were achieving was to safeguard Chinese BRI infrastructure projects. That country was never going to be pacified either- the only political force that has ever made headway there is radical Islamism. Communism and Democracy were both astroturfed ideas that needed to be enforced through the barrel of a gun.

    It’s true that Afghanistan will remain a safe space for Jihadi terrorists, but it’s a completely different geopolitical environment than 20 years ago and maybe Afghanistan being stable doesn’t matter so much anymore.

    Frankly speaking, there’s going to be future terrorist attacks launched out of there, but many of them are going to be directed at targets in Pakistan and China’s Xinjiang region- both of those countries are U.S rivals now.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @CMV


    No I think Biden is making the right decision here.
     
    You’re assuming he actually made a decision ... my bet would be that he spends most of his morning briefing drooling into his oatmeal.

    Replies: @Dale Gribble

  66. Good work Steve. W was elected (probably, in retrospect, have seen evidence recently on funny stuff with military absentees) on your platform then gave us a preview of coming attractions by refusing to govern on it.

    What were the first two things the R Senate did when they thought (correctly, as it turns out, at least temporarily) that they were finally free from the yoke of their sovereign (i.e. us)?

    (1) Passed a defense(sic) bill over Trump’s veto that directly thumbed their noses at our clearly expressed foreign policy priorities, especially on Afghanistan.

    (2) Lifted the country limits on immigration by unanimous consent (!) to open the floodgates on Brahmin H1Bs for their true masters.

    And now they go total jihad on 1/6 protestors, throwing out every principle that they flatter themselves that they’re upholding. Utterly disgusting.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Bill
    @Desiderius

    Not Brahmins these days. Not for decades.

  67. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    George W. Bush specifically talked in his second inaugural address about how it was the duty of the United States to bring freedom and liberty to people all over the world who were “yearning” for it. The small presence was meant to insure the transition between the old system and the gloriously democracy that was to be implemented in its place. His vision was completely ignorant of the history of the region.

  68. “Those who advocate that we stay in Afghanistan long after Osama bin Laden and the Taliban are dealt with should ponder Kipling and Huston’s parable.”

    The great lesson of history is that people forget the lessons of history.

    • Agree: Polistra
  69. I have an honest question:

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Serious answers only.

    Thanks.

    In times past I might have said “a bucket of warm spit”. Now, I’m not so sure.

  70. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    Run along, now. Last time you kept the Dungeon Master waiting, your paladin had that bad experience with the army of syphilitic Orcs.

    • LOL: Old Prude
  71. @Almost Missouri
    @Henry Canaday


    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S.
     
    I've heard that explanation before, but unless we planned to stay forever, it was always going to return to "empty warehouse" status one day, it was just going to be a question of how much blood and treasure we would spend before that day. I any case, in 2001 when the Taliban was strong, it only took a few weeks, a few hundred special forces, and a few million dollars of suitcase money to flip the whole country to Northern Alliance/US control, which is far cheaper in every way than any year of the grinding and expensive occupation. So let 'em have the empty warehouse. If they cause problems, mount another raid.

    and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.
     
    That's a new one on me. I always thought that the Taliban was Pakistan's pet, not the other way around.

    The other main argument I typically heard for the absurd occupation were that the military-industrial complex didn't want it to end, which is obviously true but not sufficient IMHO, because much bigger and more profitable wars have ended much sooner, so why was Afghanistan different?

    More conspiratorially minded commenters said the Israel lobby wanted US forces bracketing neocon bugbear Iran on both east (Afghanistan) and west (Iraq). Perhaps, but as eastern Iran is pretty rugged and barren, an actual invasion of Iran would probably come from the west and the sea, and didn't happen anyway (yet).

    FWIW, here is how I remember things. After Operation Anaconda in 2002 rooted out the last actual Al Qaeda (remember them?) the Afghan occupation did go into something of a drawdown as attention switched to Iraq. But after feeling clobbered in the 2002 midterm elections, the Democrat party decided they had been too cooperative with the Bush administration, so they and their media allies (only 90% of media back then) switched to opposing the US intervention in Iraq. But to show that they weren't wussies for being antiwar, they had to build up a narrative where they supported the "good war" in Afghanistan while opposing the "bad war" in Iraq. You may recall John Kerry making schizophrenic rhetorical use of his war medals in his 2004 presidential campaign. Since Bush hung on to the White House, not much changed until the Obama campaign doubled down on this strategy in 2008. Obama had the advantage of not having voted for the Iraq war, so he could more credibly claim to oppose it, but therefore he needed a "positive intervention" to champion, and Afghanistan was it. His campaign and allied media (about 98% at this point) spiced it up with narratives of "protecting women's rights in Afghanistan" and other irrelevant bullcrap that supposedly appealed to soccer mom swing voters.

    Having won the election, the Obama administration duly proceeded to launch a pantomime war in Afghanistan with no real strategic goal other than making Obama look manly. US and allied troop commitments quadrupled or so and stayed that way for the duration of the Obama terms. This is when the most US blood and treasure was lost there. You can see the pointless Obama surge on page 6 of this Congressional report. Other than reporting "Obama standing firm" memes, the US media essentially stopped reporting on Afghanistan until ... Trump started talking about officially leaving Afghanistan. Then suddenly it was national security priority #1 that we not do what Trump said.

    tl;dr: a bunch of Americans got killed for a cynical Democrat-media domestic political ploy.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Peterike, @Henry's Cat, @Bill, @Charlotte

    It’s the Democrats’ fault that Bush the Lesser invaded and tried to colonize Afghanistan. So, get to the polls and vote for the GOP. It’s our only hope!

    • Agree: fish
    • Thanks: Polistra
    • Troll: Inquiring Mind
    • Replies: @fish
    @Bill

    I agree with the sarcasm ....not the sentiment.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Bill


    It’s the Democrats’ fault that Bush the Lesser invaded and tried to colonize Afghanistan.
     
    It's the Democrats' fault that he could say something as false as "Islam is a religion of peace" and actually believe it. He'd been swallowing their propaganda for forty years..

    Note, too their supremely cynical silence after he'd said it. Democrats know a lot more about race than they let on. (With 200 years of intimate experience with blacks, how could they not?)

    Replies: @Pericles

    , @Marquis
    @Bill

    I didn’t think there was anyone here dense enough to not know that Bush is a modern day Democrat.

    Replies: @Bill

  72. @Paperback Writer
    I have an honest question:

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Serious answers only.

    Thanks.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @donut, @J.Ross, @anon, @Che Blutarsky, @Prof. Woland, @fish, @John Johnson, @Midnights, @Mike_from_SGV

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    There is one party who’s elected officials hate you and don’t care what happens to you.

    There is the other party who’s elected officials hate you, are actively plotting your destruction, and dream of your violent end.

  73. @Desiderius
    Good work Steve. W was elected (probably, in retrospect, have seen evidence recently on funny stuff with military absentees) on your platform then gave us a preview of coming attractions by refusing to govern on it.

    What were the first two things the R Senate did when they thought (correctly, as it turns out, at least temporarily) that they were finally free from the yoke of their sovereign (i.e. us)?

    (1) Passed a defense(sic) bill over Trump's veto that directly thumbed their noses at our clearly expressed foreign policy priorities, especially on Afghanistan.

    (2) Lifted the country limits on immigration by unanimous consent (!) to open the floodgates on Brahmin H1Bs for their true masters.

    And now they go total jihad on 1/6 protestors, throwing out every principle that they flatter themselves that they're upholding. Utterly disgusting.

    Replies: @Bill

    Not Brahmins these days. Not for decades.

  74. Anon[253] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: Mexico finally did something that may stop the tide of immigrants coming from that country to the U.S.

    Yes, Mexico is on the verge of making marijuana legal and available. If they’re all as stoned as lotus-eaters, they may no longer bother coming to the U.S. We may even export some of our homeless population to Mexico because it has no real winter.

    We ought to promote legalization in the rest of the world to stop them from coming here. Weed for Africa!

    https://www.marijuanamoment.net/mexican-lawmakers-could-finally-legalize-marijuana-sales-next-month-op-ed/

  75. It must be very nice to be able to pull up something you predicted in print….

    How about the ones about the disaster coming from opening the border…

    Send that to your host Ronnie Unz… a guy who loves his lawn crew in Palo Alto!

  76. @Paperback Writer
    I have an honest question:

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Serious answers only.

    Thanks.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @donut, @J.Ross, @anon, @Che Blutarsky, @Prof. Woland, @fish, @John Johnson, @Midnights, @Mike_from_SGV

    It is time to cancel feminism both here and abroad. For some reason they are treated as sacrosanct when they are not. If Gloria Steinem wants to go teach at a girls school in Kandahar with her own money, I am not stopping her but we have lost enough young white men and I have better things to spend my money on than war and single mothers.

  77. In 2012, Mark Steyn wrote,”Six weeks after the last Nato soldier leaves Afghanistan, it will be as if we were never there… We came, we saw, we left no trace. America’s longest war will leave nothing behind.”

    He now acknowledges that the “six weeks” timeline was overly optimistic. We haven’t even finished leaving and it’s already as if we were never there, except for leaving tons of materiel for the Taliban and flush Swiss bank accounts for the puppets we put in charge.

    Column is behind paywall, but here it is:
    Mark Steyn: America’s longest war will leave no trace

    By ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER
    March 2, 2012 at 3:25 p.m.

    Say what you like about Afghans, but they’re admirably straightforward. The mobs outside the bases enflamed over the latest Western affront to their exquisitely refined cultural sensitivities couldn’t put it any plainer: “Die, die, foreigners!”

    [MORE]

    And foreigners do die. U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. John Loftis, 44, and Army Maj. Robert Marchanti II, 48, lost their lives not on some mission out on the far horizon in wild tribal lands in the dead of night but in the offices of the Afghan Interior Ministry. In a “secure room” that required a numerical code to access. Gunned down by an Afghan “intelligence officer.” Who then departed the scene of the crime unimpeded by any of his colleagues.

    Some news outlets reported the event as a “security breach.” But what exactly was breached? The murderer was by all accounts an employee of the Afghan government, with legitimate rights of access to the building and its secure room, and “liaising” with his U.S. advisers and “mentors” was part of the job. In Afghanistan, foreigners are dying at the hands of the locals who know them best. The Afghans trained by Westerners, paid by Westerners and befriended by Westerners are the ones who have the easiest opportunity to kill them. It is sufficiently non-unusual that the Pentagon, as is the wont with bureaucracies, already has a term for it: “green-on-blue incidents,” in which a uniformed Afghan turns his gun on his Western “allies.”

    So we have a convenient label for what’s happening; what we don’t have is a strategy to stop it – other than more money, more “hearts and minds” for people who seem notably lacking in both, and more bulk orders of the bestselling book “Three Cups Of Tea,” an Oprahfied heap of drivel extensively exposed as an utter fraud but which a delusional Washington insists on sticking in the kit bag of its Afghan-bound officer class.

    Don’t fancy the tea? A U.S. base in southern Afghanistan was recently stricken by food poisoning due to mysteriously high amounts of chlorine in the coffee. As Navy Capt. John Kirby explained, “We don’t know if it was deliberate or something in the cleaning process.”

    Oh, dear. You could chisel that on the tombstones of any number of expeditionary forces over the centuries: “Afghanistan. It’s something in the cleaning process.”

    In the past couple of months, two prominent politicians of different nations visiting their troops on the ground have used the same image to me for Western military bases: crusader forts. Behind the fortifications, a mini-West has been built in a cheerless land: There are Coke machines and Krispy Kreme doughnuts. Safely back within the gates, a man can climb out of the full RoboCop and stop pretending he enjoys three cups of tea with the duplicitous warlords, drug barons and pederasts who pass for Afghanistan’s ruling class. The visiting Western dignitary is cautiously shuttled through outer and inner perimeters, and reminded that, even here, there are areas he would be ill-advised to venture unaccompanied, and tries to banish memories of his first tour all those years ago when aides still twittered optimistically about the possibility of a photo-op at a girls’ schoolroom in Jalalabad or an Internet start-up in Kabul.

    The last crusader fort I visited was Kerak Castle in Jordan a few years ago. It was built in the 1140s, and still impresses today. I doubt there will be any remains of our latter-day fortresses a millennium hence. Six weeks after the last NATO soldier leaves Afghanistan, it will be as if we were never there. Before the election in 2010, the New York Post carried a picture of women registering to vote in Herat, all in identical top-to-toe bright blue burkas, just as they would have looked on Sept. 10, 2001. We came, we saw, we left no trace. America’s longest war will leave nothing behind.
    They can breach our security, but we cannot breach theirs – the vast impregnable psychological fortress in which what passes for the Pushtun mind resides. Someone accidentally burned a Quran your pals had already defaced with covert messages? Die, die, foreigners! The president of the United States issues a groveling and characteristically clueless apology for it? Die, die, foreigners! The American friend who has trained you and hired you and paid you has arrived for a meeting? Die, die, foreigners! And those are the Afghans who know us best. To the upcountry village headmen, the fellows descending from the skies in full body armor are as alien as were the space invaders to Americans in the film “Independence Day.”

    The Rumsfeld strategy that toppled the Taliban over a decade ago was brilliant and innovative: special forces on horseback using GPS to call in unmanned drones. They will analyze it in staff colleges around the world for decades. But what we ought to be analyzing instead is the sad, aimless, bloated, arthritic, transnationalized folly of what followed. The United States is an historical anomaly: the nonimperial superpower. Colonialism is not in its DNA, and in some ways that speaks well for it, and in other ways, in a hostile and fast-changing world of predators and opportunists, it does not. But even nations of an unimperialist bent have roused themselves to great transformative “cleaning processes” within living memory: The Ottawa Citizen’s David Warren wrote this week that he had “conferred the benefit of the doubt” on “the grand bureaucratic project of ‘nation building’… predicated on post-War successes in Germany and Japan.”

    It wasn’t that long ago, was it? Except that, as Warren says, the times are “so utterly changed.” It seems certain that, waging World War II today, the RAF would not carpet-bomb Dresden, and the U.S. would not nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And, lacking the will to inflict massive, total defeat, would we also lack the will to inflict that top-to-toe “cleaning process”?

    Ah, well. Kabul is not Berlin or Tokyo. As long as wily mischief-makers are not using it as a base for global mayhem, who cares? To modify Bismarck, the Hindu Kush is not worth the bones of a single Pennsylvanian grenadier, or “training officer.” Afghanistan is about Afghanistan – if you’re Afghan or Pakistani. But, if you’re Russian or Chinese or Iranian or European, Afghanistan is about America. And too much about the Afghan campaign is too emblematic. As much as any bailed-out corporation, the U.S. is “too big to fail”: In Afghanistan as in the stimulus, it was money no object. The combined Western military/aid presence accounts for 98 percent of that benighted land’s GDP. We carpet-bomb with dollar bills; we have the most advanced technology known to man; we have everything except strategic purpose.

    That “crusader fort” image has a broader symbolism. The post-American world is arising before our eyes. According to the IMF, China will become the dominant economic power by 2016. Putin is on course to return to the Kremlin corner office. In Tehran, the mullahs nuclearize with impunity. New spheres of influence are being established in North Africa, in Central Europe, in the once-reliably “American lake” of the Pacific. Can America itself be a crusader fort? A fortress secure behind the interminable checkpoints of Code Orange TSA bureaucratic torpor while beyond the moat the mob jeers “Die, die, foreigners”? Or, in the end, will it prove as effortlessly penetrable as the “secure room” of the Afghan Interior Ministry?

    • Thanks: epebble, Old Prude
    • Replies: @Bel Riose
    @Harry Baldwin

    I liked this a lot.

    Well done.

    Your thoughts on feminism, please!

    , @Paperback Writer
    @Harry Baldwin

    Actually, we built a huge infrastructure and left a lot of weapons that the Taliban may now use. Someone on Twitter wrote that it's as if the Taliban leased Afghanistan to us for 20 years, kicked us out, and then got aid, cost an interest free.

    But socially, yeah, of course, Steyn was right. No more of this in Afghanistan:

    https://twitter.com/USEmbassyKabul/status/1400060130243362816?s=20

    Replies: @CCZ, @Alden

  78. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    like iraq, the reasoning given by the warmongers depended greatly on what they thought the intended audience wanted to hear. the conservative population was told horror stories about muh terr’ism and the liberal population was told about womens empowerment and saving minorities.

  79. Last week my 14 year old grandson atayed with me for a couple of nights. I wanted to watch “The Man Who Would Be King” with him. Could not get it with my cable package without adding more pay for view options. Watched Sean Connery and others in “Time Bandits” instead. However, after he left I found it online and watched it here at my desk. The movie, the actors and the directing are four star. Watching it on a 20″ inch desk top monitor diminished the scope of the movie. Still a great flik. And, the US should never have gone into Afghanistan, then we would not have remorse over leaving now. I have heart felt sorrow for the US families who lost a son or daughter fighting there and for those mained there. Madness. Madness. Madness. (credit to “Bridge on the River Kwai.”

    • Thanks: Yngvar
  80. Anon[253] • Disclaimer says:

    If Biden can’t get our people out of there fast enough, it looks like the Taliban will take U.S. hostages in the capital and demand massive ransom for them in a way that will humiliate the U.S., much like what happened to Carter. Biden may end up so disgraced that he has zero chance of getting elected in 2024, and if he runs again in 2024, he’ll block Harris’ chances.

    However, Biden has ‘gone on vacation,’ right now, which is a code phrase for his dumbass son Hunter making the news again with another sex tape in which he’s caught discussing how the Russians stole one of his laptops in 2018. That, no doubt, has sent his father into a tizzy and a huddle with his relatives about how to protect the Biden family, never mind silly Trashcanistan right now.

    By the way, anyone who thinks the Taliban will be nice is wrong. Their rule was brutal and corrupt the first time, and there’s no reason it will be any different the next time. They are a corrupt political oligarchy using religion as an excuse to milk a dumbass servile population for what it has to offer.

    By the way, did anyone realize that Cuomo demanded 2 weeks before he left office so he can madly destroy every record that incriminates him for a wide variety of misdeeds? Politics in New York is not clean, and there’s a lot of routine bribing and buying of favors.

  81. Shoulda followed Churchill’s maxim: Butcher and bolt. But I guess that Neo-Con Churchill worship doesn’t go that far…

    And if a US example is wanted, there’s always Jefferson:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

  82. @Achmed E. Newman
    Hmmm, I didn't read your stuff back then, but I'm pretty sure I would have agreed with you at the time. In addition, I would have gotten and watched The Man Who Would Be King, which I will now proceed to do. Phrases such as "let's not have another Vietnam" and the like were ones I heard and read and also agreed with at that time. (Who knew it'd be nearly twice as long, a whole generation?!)

    I can remember seeing a news story sometime not long before 9/11/01 about these Taliban guys shooting up big Buddha statues built into the hills. "Not my business", I remember thinking.*

    Assuming the official story, what was our business after the fact? I'd say reforming our immigration system to reject people that hate our country from the country, and reversing the policy of disarming Americans who boarded airliners should have been the 2 domestic bullet points... in a sane country. Instead, the opposite was done.

    Now, per latest J. Derb post, we're doing more inviting after the invading is over with and lost.

    .

    * It was only a few years since I'd been wondering WTF are we fighting on behalf of Moslems in the Balkins for? There's quite a history of this Neocon warmaking since Reagan won the Cold War.

    Replies: @Adam Smith, @Oscar Peterson

    Assuming the official story, what was our business after the fact?

    We must secure the existence of schools for Afghan girls so they can learn to read…

    And a future for Their Democracy™ in Afghanistan…

    I mean,

    We must secure the existence of Poppies in the fields so we can supply the raw materials to produce the opium and fentanyl so our benevolent overlords can wage Opium War 3.0 against Americans here at home.

    Umm, what I really mean is,

    Thar’s rare earth minerals in them thar hills.

    Besides, the \$2Trillion spent in Afghanistan over the last 20 years is good for the economy. (Surely you love the economy?) Think of all those missiles, bombs, guns, ammo, humvees, tanks, helicopters, fighter jets, the fuel to power them, etc. and all the wonderful jobs this wise policy provided.

    Think about all that glorious GDPee.
    So much GDPee.

    • Agree: Anonymous Jew
    • Thanks: epebble, Polistra
    • Replies: @rebel yell
    @Adam Smith

    Note that in one of the pictures the Afghan female voter is holding up a Voter ID card. Hmmmm...perhaps we could require voter ID cards in the US and rise to Afghan standards.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @CJ

    , @Anonymous Jew
    @Adam Smith

    Most people (not here) don’t see the obvious flaw in the military-spending-economy argument. When I buy a Honda Accord, it’s only because I value the car more than the $22,000 I spend on it. Likewise, Honda values the $22,000 more than the car. As a result both parties are better off and wealth is created (the wealth being the spread between the car’s price and the value I receive plus Honda’s spread - ie their profit). When the government takes my $22,000 to buy a tank, I’m not better off; I’m still out $22,000 but now with zero benefit. And it’s impossible for the tank manufacturer to make a 100% profit to offset my loss. As a result, wealth is lost (and transferred), but not created.

    Which reminds me of the most clever question from my Econ 101 professor: on what day is the most wealth lost?*

    (*Christmas Day: if the $30 sweater you gave me was worth more than $30 to me I would have already bought it).

    *Next best Econ 101 question: can you put a monetary price on an individuals life? But that question is more appropriate for Steve’s next post about Coronavirus policy.

    Replies: @Polistra, @rebel yell

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Adam Smith

    Thanks, Adam. Rebel Yell stole my line on this one. Could they send over election monitors in '24, please?

  83. @Achmed E. Newman
    Hmmm, I didn't read your stuff back then, but I'm pretty sure I would have agreed with you at the time. In addition, I would have gotten and watched The Man Who Would Be King, which I will now proceed to do. Phrases such as "let's not have another Vietnam" and the like were ones I heard and read and also agreed with at that time. (Who knew it'd be nearly twice as long, a whole generation?!)

    I can remember seeing a news story sometime not long before 9/11/01 about these Taliban guys shooting up big Buddha statues built into the hills. "Not my business", I remember thinking.*

    Assuming the official story, what was our business after the fact? I'd say reforming our immigration system to reject people that hate our country from the country, and reversing the policy of disarming Americans who boarded airliners should have been the 2 domestic bullet points... in a sane country. Instead, the opposite was done.

    Now, per latest J. Derb post, we're doing more inviting after the invading is over with and lost.

    .

    * It was only a few years since I'd been wondering WTF are we fighting on behalf of Moslems in the Balkins for? There's quite a history of this Neocon warmaking since Reagan won the Cold War.

    Replies: @Adam Smith, @Oscar Peterson

    The Man Who Would Be King is a great movie.

    I always remember Michael Caine trying to teach British military drill to the locals:

    “Not after the others! Not before the others! With the bloody others!”

    • Agree: John Henry, Mr. Anon
    • Thanks: John Milton’s Ghost
    • Replies: @John Henry
    @Oscar Peterson


    Billy Fish: Gurkha foot soldier, not cavalry!
     
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Oscar Peterson

    Thanks for the additional recommendation, Mr. Peterson. It is on the way.

  84. @Almost Missouri
    @Henry Canaday


    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S.
     
    I've heard that explanation before, but unless we planned to stay forever, it was always going to return to "empty warehouse" status one day, it was just going to be a question of how much blood and treasure we would spend before that day. I any case, in 2001 when the Taliban was strong, it only took a few weeks, a few hundred special forces, and a few million dollars of suitcase money to flip the whole country to Northern Alliance/US control, which is far cheaper in every way than any year of the grinding and expensive occupation. So let 'em have the empty warehouse. If they cause problems, mount another raid.

    and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.
     
    That's a new one on me. I always thought that the Taliban was Pakistan's pet, not the other way around.

    The other main argument I typically heard for the absurd occupation were that the military-industrial complex didn't want it to end, which is obviously true but not sufficient IMHO, because much bigger and more profitable wars have ended much sooner, so why was Afghanistan different?

    More conspiratorially minded commenters said the Israel lobby wanted US forces bracketing neocon bugbear Iran on both east (Afghanistan) and west (Iraq). Perhaps, but as eastern Iran is pretty rugged and barren, an actual invasion of Iran would probably come from the west and the sea, and didn't happen anyway (yet).

    FWIW, here is how I remember things. After Operation Anaconda in 2002 rooted out the last actual Al Qaeda (remember them?) the Afghan occupation did go into something of a drawdown as attention switched to Iraq. But after feeling clobbered in the 2002 midterm elections, the Democrat party decided they had been too cooperative with the Bush administration, so they and their media allies (only 90% of media back then) switched to opposing the US intervention in Iraq. But to show that they weren't wussies for being antiwar, they had to build up a narrative where they supported the "good war" in Afghanistan while opposing the "bad war" in Iraq. You may recall John Kerry making schizophrenic rhetorical use of his war medals in his 2004 presidential campaign. Since Bush hung on to the White House, not much changed until the Obama campaign doubled down on this strategy in 2008. Obama had the advantage of not having voted for the Iraq war, so he could more credibly claim to oppose it, but therefore he needed a "positive intervention" to champion, and Afghanistan was it. His campaign and allied media (about 98% at this point) spiced it up with narratives of "protecting women's rights in Afghanistan" and other irrelevant bullcrap that supposedly appealed to soccer mom swing voters.

    Having won the election, the Obama administration duly proceeded to launch a pantomime war in Afghanistan with no real strategic goal other than making Obama look manly. US and allied troop commitments quadrupled or so and stayed that way for the duration of the Obama terms. This is when the most US blood and treasure was lost there. You can see the pointless Obama surge on page 6 of this Congressional report. Other than reporting "Obama standing firm" memes, the US media essentially stopped reporting on Afghanistan until ... Trump started talking about officially leaving Afghanistan. Then suddenly it was national security priority #1 that we not do what Trump said.

    tl;dr: a bunch of Americans got killed for a cynical Democrat-media domestic political ploy.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Peterike, @Henry's Cat, @Bill, @Charlotte

    One theory I’ve read is that the US wanted Afghanistan as a client state for its strategic position vis a vis Russia and China. This makes a certain amount of sense to me. However, I’m not ruling out the power of incredible ignorance/arrogance in keeping us there for twenty years, either.

    Why so many elite thinkers managed to convince themselves that very old, very alien cultures would welcome our attempts to remake them in the image of modern America will always baffle me. Honestly, when I see what we’ve made of our own culture, I have difficulty imagining why anyone would want to imitate our way of life. That’s the rub-you can’t really have democracy without a regard for individual importance and autonomy that diminishes the importance of family, clan, and religious leadership. Our attempts to export it can be viewed, not wrongly, as an attack on the proper ordering of (their) society.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    @Charlotte

    American 'culture' will creep in through cell phones and the internet and I suspect that Afghans will lack the same immunity that the rest of the world does.

    , @Paperback Writer
    @Charlotte


    One theory I’ve read is that the US wanted Afghanistan as a client state for its strategic position vis a vis Russia and China. This makes a certain amount of sense to me. However, I’m not ruling out the power of incredible ignorance/arrogance in keeping us there for twenty years, either.
     
    Makes sense to me, too. Here's the problem. Our toxic elites think you can't "sell" a perfectly rational mission without slathering a bunch of Yankee-doodle crap on it. That used to mean vague bromides about "freedom n democracy." Now it means women's rights, gay rights, etc. That, plus some of our toxic elites actually believe their own bullshit.

    Most people get the truth. They understand the power game a bit better than the toxic elites. But elites run the show.

    And Joe sounds very based here:

    https://twitter.com/EuroHegemonist/status/1426457492452749313?s=20

    Replies: @Whiskey, @Desiderius

  85. @Oscar Peterson
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The Man Who Would Be King is a great movie.

    I always remember Michael Caine trying to teach British military drill to the locals:

    "Not after the others! Not before the others! With the bloody others!"

    Replies: @John Henry, @Achmed E. Newman

    Billy Fish: Gurkha foot soldier, not cavalry!

  86. All over Afghanistan, there are men, about the same age as your average isteve commenter, sitting in their hovels, with their AK-47 leaned up in the corner of the room. These men have now put the two most powerful empires of the age to route.

    Just remember that the next time some leftest bellows that assault rifles shouldn’t be protected by the 2nd amendment. We’re on the wrong end of the stick, but that is exactly what is was written for.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @Mike1
    @Farenheit

    Exactly.

    , @Kjr
    @Farenheit

    I don't understand this line of argument.

    Other than for that one family out in Nevada a few years ago, when has owning a rifle ever helped protect an American man or woman from wrongful imprisonment by the powers that be?

    In America, the land of the free and the home of the brave, where everyone is presumed innocent, 99 out of 100 people charged with a crime are convicted.

    And 1 out of every 3 men in America is handcuffed at least once in his life.

    And 1 out of every 60 men in America is in prison at this very moment.

    Unless you believe that Americans are the most jailworthy of peoples on the earth you've got to admit that there are an awful lot of normal people being shackled by their own government.

    Americans are not Afghanis.

    Americans do not fight.

    Americans swell with pride at putting in 50 hour work weeks and, when they aren't working, they are sheltering in place and living their lives through a screen.

    Europeans have an excuse for being so wussified. After all, they have no guns.

    Americans have no excuse but the faint memory of puritan morals which requires that all evildoers be punished.

    And so, when its your turn to be punished you know well the psychology of your fellow citizen and submit to it as weakly as a lamb.

    The American second amendment was designed to protect the first.

    Yet when they came for the first amendment, closing the houses of worship, muzzling the populace, censoring the free press, and making peaceful assembly illegal did the right to bear arms help safeguard your rights?

    No.

    Because our government OF the people, BY the people, and FOR the people - so help me God - loved the mask.

    Oh yes we did.

    So too when it comes to supporting "our boys in blue", our courts, our prosecutors, our prisons -- if our guns are for anything it is to protect those fine puboic servants from the rowdy proles.

    If Winston Smith is looking wistfully out of his window at the Dominican washer woman singing with abandon in Washington Heights it is with a prayer in his heart that the aurhorities come for her quickly.


    The one thing that all Americans agree upon is their burning desire for Law and Order. They only disagree about which people to use it against.

    Free playfulness with the acceptance of all of the risks that entails is anathema to a people who truly believe that their little ones will live forever, save they fall from uncushioned monkeybars or be spoken to by an unauthorized adult.

    And the solution we found is to allow our youth to go abroad, while still in their teens, to wreak amoral havoc upon strangers so that they can come home afterwards to the news that they are heroes and to a lifetime PTSD Pension.

    Americans who speak with pride about their right to publish what they will, to ark as they will, to have a speedy trial, to be presumed innocent, to be secure in their persons and posessions are so cringeworthy they don't even know their cringeworthy.

    Whose flag is that you're waving? What have the stars and stripes done for you and yours?

    As Samuel told the Jews who begged him for a King and Government (I Samuel Chapter 8): "You will be its slave".

    And still they demanded it.

    As do we.

    Whatever else one can say about the Afghanis of the less western sort, they do not boast of owning ornamental guns while their sons are shackled by the millions.

    As we do.

    As ours are.

    Replies: @Clyde, @InnerCynic

  87. We had 20 years to win hearts and minds and let the good guys there build up their own army and infrastructure. You know, that neo-con dream.

    Yet now the Taliban is coming back and quickly.

    Any lessons to be learned?

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @WilmaPie

    We had 20 years to win hearts and minds and let the good guys there build up their own army and infrastructure. You know, that neo-con dream.

    Yet now the Taliban is coming back and quickly.

    Any lessons to be learned?

    The lesson was already known by American Indians which is that tribal chiefs that want war must go in first to show their confidence in winning.

    I would still support a GoFundMe for all neocons. Let's get Billy Kristol an armored vest and an M-16 and take him to Kabul.

    FOR DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM!!!!

    GO BILLY GO!!!!

    (pushes Billy out of the helicopter)

    Replies: @Hunsdon

  88. @Peterike
    @Almost Missouri

    “ proceeded to launch a pantomime war in Afghanistan with no real strategic goal other than making Obama look manly.”

    100% true. But think about it. There’s a stack of dead and maimed American bodies who exist solely because the faggoty Obama needed to look tough.

    The monstrousness of our elites cannot be overstated. Yet they never have any consequences to pay.

    Replies: @rebel yell

    The monstrousness of our elites cannot be overstated. Yet they never have any consequences to pay.

    The causal direction is:
    They never have any consequences to pay, therefore they are monsters.

    • Agree: Peterike
  89. In Denmark, the Afghanistan charade was sold as bringing democracy to poor Afghans “yearning to breathe free”. Far too many bought the idea, and 43 young Danes just bought it…

    When you tried to argue the hopelessness of the project, and asked why the US and NATO should succeed when the Soviet Union failed, you were told that this time it was different because democracy – which over here is some sort of magic spell to quench any discussion.

    Sooner or later the Afghans will grow tired of The Taliban and a tribal war will follow. Let us stay out of it next time around.

  90. Everything we know about Amazon’s massive ‘Lord of the Rings’ series
    Big battles and tasteful nudity will rule Middle-earth’s Second Age

    https://www.timeout.com/news/everything-we-know-about-amazons-massive-lord-of-the-rings-series-081221

  91. @Adam Smith
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Assuming the official story, what was our business after the fact?
     
    We must secure the existence of schools for Afghan girls so they can learn to read...

    https://static.dw.com/image/55614030_303.jpg

    And a future for Their Democracy™ in Afghanistan...

    https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/v1492200417/articles/2014/04/07/would-you-risk-your-life-to-vote-it-looks-like-7-million-afghans-did/140406-afghan-elections-tease_feegj9.jpg

    I mean,

    We must secure the existence of Poppies in the fields so we can supply the raw materials to produce the opium and fentanyl so our benevolent overlords can wage Opium War 3.0 against Americans here at home.

    https://publicintelligence.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/USopium7.png

    Umm, what I really mean is,

    Thar's rare earth minerals in them thar hills.

    https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/104659264-RTXV5TL-afghanistan.jpg

    Besides, the $2Trillion spent in Afghanistan over the last 20 years is good for the economy. (Surely you love the economy?) Think of all those missiles, bombs, guns, ammo, humvees, tanks, helicopters, fighter jets, the fuel to power them, etc. and all the wonderful jobs this wise policy provided.

    https://www.953mnc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/military-humvees.jpg

    Think about all that glorious GDPee.
    So much GDPee.

    Replies: @rebel yell, @Anonymous Jew, @Achmed E. Newman

    Note that in one of the pictures the Afghan female voter is holding up a Voter ID card. Hmmmm…perhaps we could require voter ID cards in the US and rise to Afghan standards.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @rebel yell


    Note that in one of the pictures the Afghan female voter is holding up a Voter ID card. Hmmmm…perhaps we could require voter ID cards in the US...
     
    Vaccine passports, too. And Illinois-style FOID cards. The electorate would soon be as white as 1960's.

    On the other hand, consider how that electorate voted. Maybe it's not a panacæa after all.
    , @CJ
    @rebel yell

    A picture ID card, a finger dipped in indelible ink, and her face is uncovered.

    That is some serious voter suppression there.

  92. It might sound edgy or morbid to look forward to the massacre of every American in the embassy complex but consider that if there is no punishment, this will happen again. The same people who dreamed this up wanted us in Iran, and still do. The best thing that can possibly happen for the United States of America is a strong vaccination of it, good and hard, in such a way as to defeat all possible spin.

  93. The West’s obsession with “nation-building” while being extremely unwilling, or inability to actually get their hands dirty and do it properly, is exactly what will cause their fall.

    Let’s see – who did a little nation building in the area previously… Oh. Alexander the Great. And he did it so well that the territory of Afghanistan was one of the most interesting cultures on the planet, a perfect merger of Greek, Iranian and Indian.

    So it definitely is possible. Except people don’t want to do it, it’s hard and long.

    But really, nation-building is a constant process, primarily done by the inhabitants. I would say it isn’t now that the nation-building of Afghanistan ends, but that it has only just begun, or rather, continued after a 20 year hiatus.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
  94. @Charlotte
    @Almost Missouri

    One theory I’ve read is that the US wanted Afghanistan as a client state for its strategic position vis a vis Russia and China. This makes a certain amount of sense to me. However, I’m not ruling out the power of incredible ignorance/arrogance in keeping us there for twenty years, either.

    Why so many elite thinkers managed to convince themselves that very old, very alien cultures would welcome our attempts to remake them in the image of modern America will always baffle me. Honestly, when I see what we’ve made of our own culture, I have difficulty imagining why anyone would want to imitate our way of life. That’s the rub-you can’t really have democracy without a regard for individual importance and autonomy that diminishes the importance of family, clan, and religious leadership. Our attempts to export it can be viewed, not wrongly, as an attack on the proper ordering of (their) society.

    Replies: @Prof. Woland, @Paperback Writer

    American ‘culture’ will creep in through cell phones and the internet and I suspect that Afghans will lack the same immunity that the rest of the world does.

  95. “Nation-Building in Afghanistan, RIP”

    Nation-Building in America, RIP

  96. @tanabear
    @Henry Canaday


    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S...
     
    This is a rehashing of the argument that Bush II made about the Iraq War; "we're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here." But how are these people supposed to get over here? There are only two ways, legal immigration or illegal immigration. As Bush II did not care about controlling either one of these I knew he was insincere.

    But even if you agree with the official story, which I don't, the hijackers received their flight training in America. It was America that gave them visas and trained them, not Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria or Libya.

    In reality, 9/11 was an inside job so Afghanistan was always a side-show.

    Replies: @S. Anonyia

    Yep, four of the hijackers had addresses tying them to the naval air station base near Pensacola. I believe the remainder trained somewhere in South Florida. Allegedly they did not receive navy training, but why exactly were they living on the base in 2000?

  97. Anonymous[141] • Disclaimer says:

    My liberal civilian friend said he felt good when Bush was dropping food along with bombs during the Afghan war beginning. He felt it was reaching out to the people. I told him it was exactly the wrong thing and would end up like Somalia (where before he had said “Bush was finally doing something noble”…and I told him it would end up poorly). I was right both times.

    It’s guys like that who get guys like me killed. But then again, he can watch Marvel movies…it’s how he thinks.

  98. @Unit472
    I worry that those 3,000 combat troops Biden is flying into Kabul to secure the airport so higher ranking US officials can get out could become POWs or hostages. Initially, I thought the plan was to have Turkish soldiers secure the airport and some sort of diplomatic agreement cobbled together to allow the US to get out. Doesn't seem Biden and Blinken were able to get that done. Instead we have an ad hoc operation thrown together to put 3, 000 US soldiers to secure that airport by the end of this weekend!

    The Taliban is rapidly closing in on Kabul. US M-777 howitzers of which I suspect we have supplied to the ANA have a range of 23 miles. The Taliban doesn't have to overrun our airport garrison to trap them. Just start peppering those runways with 155 mm shells and , just like at Khe Sahn in the Vietnam war, they can prevent US aircraft from landing or taking off. Unlike at Khe Sahn, the US does not have unlimited airpower to hold the Taliban at bay and supply those 3000 troops via parachute drops of supplies.

    Biden's 'rescue operation' might become another Dien Bien Phu instead of the battle of Khe Sahn.

    Replies: @SafeNow

    “I worry that those 3,000 combat troops Biden is flying into Kabul to secure the airport so higher ranking US officials can get out could become POWs or hostages.”

    I suspect that the “pallets of cash” protocol is being renewed right now. If not actually delivering the pallets, quiet discussions are underway about pallets for “rebuilding” being delivered later if you are measured in your actions now. The only problem with this plan is that the Taliban are so disjointed that quiet discussions will not get the word out.

    • Replies: @Greta Handel
    @SafeNow

    Isn’t another problem that Uncle Sam can’t be trusted to fulfill such an agreement?

    , @Unit472
    @SafeNow

    I'm sure Biden will try to pay off the Taliban, its how this corrupt POS rolls, but the Taliban is not a government and Biden has to negotiate with some bearded dude in Doha whose authority over Taliban forces in Kabul probably doesn't exist so who does Biden send the pallet of cash to?

    Right now all that has to happen to leave Biden in a real mess is for a few Taliban to seize a long range howitzer and shell Hamid Karzai airports runway. A M-777 artillery piece can do this from over 20 miles away and the Taliban are probably already that close. If they get closer they can stop incoming and outgoing flights with nothing more than a mortar or even a few heavy machineguns or RPGs.

    Biden is putting the now 6000 man rescue force in a very dangerous position. The A-10's and gunships American ground forces once had at their command are gone now. If the Taliban close that airport how are those US soldiers to be supplied and if the airport is closed what is the 'mission' of those soldiers?

    Replies: @Alden

  99. @Henry Canaday
    The realistic reasons for retaining a small presence in Afghanistan for decades were not reform and civilizing the country, but preventing it from being used as an empty warehouse for preparation of another murderous attack on the U.S. and preventing a Taliban takeover which might malignly influence the Pakistani military, intelligence service and government, as Pakistan is a nuclear-armed country.

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain, @Inquiring Mind, @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Morton's toes, @Desiderius, @J.Ross, @Almost Missouri, @notbe, @Bill B., @tanabear, @Barnard, @Bill, @Raven Lunatic, @tyrone

    Why don’t you name ALL the countries where we “need” to retain a small military presence.

  100. @anon
    @Paperback Writer

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Do you have a mirror?

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    They need you back home in Haiti.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Paperback Writer

    How does the earthquake know to hit Haiti but not Dominican Republic? Did they have Aztec architects?

  101. anon[319] • Disclaimer says:

    US taxpayers spent at least \$1Trillion on this war. Where did it all go? A lot of it to the coffers of the (((MIC))) which includes weapons makers, companies and contractors that were involved with the “rebuilding” of Afghanistan. At least 2,400 white Christian soldiers killed, another 20,000 maimed. Individuals in the CIA and its parent company Mossad made billions selling opium and its derivative, heroine, that got millions more Christian whites hooked and killed. At least 100k Afghans to be imported to the US to help with the diversity. Yet another Muslim country thoroughly effed up, and as a bonus, this one sits right between Iran and China.

    I’d say it’s mission accomplished. Next?

  102. @Tom F.
    Steve Sailer, you were right. Not many were saying what you said, then. Well done, sir.

    Replies: @notbe

    yes…and remember back then there was a feeling of invincibility to US power

    • Replies: @Tom F.
    @notbe


    yes…and remember back then there was a feeling of invincibility to US power
     
    For some older U.S. citizens, there still is; that is only because they haven't yet recognized the losing streak, the 'spoiled identities' of American, U.S. military, LEO, all now despised by media and liberals because those identities make them feel weak. The young Woke are now actively rooting against U.S. interests, and the looting of the Treasury, abandonment of U.S. border enforcement, and welcoming of millions of young brown males is not going to improve our country.

    Japan has a country full of people who’ve been educated to love their nation, honor their parents, and have a sense of duty. Cultures who teach these things have low crime. Also, Japan is a monoculture; diversity is not a strength in Asian countries. Cultures like ours that now do the opposite, don’t. Culture is everything.

    "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - Will Durant
  103. BIDEN TAKES THE BAIT LIKE A THIRSTY AND VERTICALLY CHALLENGED SIMP IN A NOIR FILM
    3,000 now 5,000
    Good thing FEMA bought all those boxes.
    Sure two thousand more paratroopers will … yeah …
    https://www.rt.com/usa/532071-biden-afghanistan-increase-taliban/

  104. @Paperback Writer
    @anon

    They need you back home in Haiti.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    How does the earthquake know to hit Haiti but not Dominican Republic? Did they have Aztec architects?

  105. Anon[253] • Disclaimer says:

    When we arrived, most of Trashcanistan were just primitive ragheads. When we left, they were still primitive ragheads.

    We didn’t transform their culture because we wanted to avoid upsetting their delicate sensibilities. If we had modernized the economy and created new jobs, they might have had something they felt was worth defending against the Taliban.

  106. Taliban present in four districts of the city plus Taliban uprising in major prison.

  107. Let’s just say that the locals were happy to see the US when the Taliban were pissing up stream while the villagers were bathing. Then the welcome was over when they realised the US was pissing upstream.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @The Alarmist

    Just like the Wehrmacht in the Ukraine.

  108. @Gordo
    HMG have sent 600 British troops to escort home diplomats, British citizens and Afghans who have helped Britain or the Afghan government. Invade. Invite.

    There is a real tragedy.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    UK doesn’t even have to invite … boatloads of migrants are arriving everyday. The RNLI have even become a ferry service for them.

  109. @Altai2
    At the end of the day the US lost in Afghanistan like it lost in Vietnam because the only way to win was to commit genocide. There was no true army or institution to fight, you were fighting the people themselves, ultimately.

    The Taliban are just mountain tribal Pashtuns. You'd have to kill every man of fighting age from those people to defeat them. What else do those men have to do but fight? Just like in Yemen, what else are those guys going to do but fight?

    There were lots of opportunities to settle this with some kind of power-sharing agreement and the posting of UN or other troops to protect areas of non-Pashtuns but for some reason this was seen as more acceptable. Maybe the people at the US State Department were disappointed at other solutions that didn't have a high enough body count for their tastes.

    Replies: @fish, @AnotherDad

    My “agree” button isn’t working! Nevertheless I agree wholeheartedly!

  110. @Paperback Writer
    I have an honest question:

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Serious answers only.

    Thanks.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @donut, @J.Ross, @anon, @Che Blutarsky, @Prof. Woland, @fish, @John Johnson, @Midnights, @Mike_from_SGV

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Trick question…..there’s nothing more worthless than the Republican Party!

  111. @CMV
    No I think Biden is making the right decision here. The only thing that the troops over there were achieving was to safeguard Chinese BRI infrastructure projects. That country was never going to be pacified either- the only political force that has ever made headway there is radical Islamism. Communism and Democracy were both astroturfed ideas that needed to be enforced through the barrel of a gun.

    It's true that Afghanistan will remain a safe space for Jihadi terrorists, but it's a completely different geopolitical environment than 20 years ago and maybe Afghanistan being stable doesn't matter so much anymore.

    Frankly speaking, there's going to be future terrorist attacks launched out of there, but many of them are going to be directed at targets in Pakistan and China's Xinjiang region- both of those countries are U.S rivals now.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    No I think Biden is making the right decision here.

    You’re assuming he actually made a decision … my bet would be that he spends most of his morning briefing drooling into his oatmeal.

    • Replies: @Dale Gribble
    @The Alarmist

    What does it take around here for the media industrial complex to put a negative gas lantern to POTUS Cool Joe?

    Biden answers a CBS News chicks question about whether he feels responsible for the safety of liberated women in Afghanistan "no."

    Biden answer made me think he studied Pat Buchanan.

    All of a sudden the mainstream press stories talk about a collapse, helicopters pushed off aircraft carriers, defense aides unprepared for a sudden evacuation, thousands of women gays and collaborators with the Americans facing certain death.

    The mainstream media finally talks about how Biden is in hiding at Camp David.

    Sounds like a warning to Biden and future presidents not to pull out of our friends' Middle Eastern wars.

  112. It’ one big jobs program and boon for the defense industrialists. The U.S militarywelfare program. The profits defense contractors racked up over the past twenty years is beyond comprehension. Now that they see another looming threat in China they figure it’s time to pull the plug on Afghanistan since it wore itself out in use now that they made the Chinese threat viable enough to consume even more resources and greater profits a

  113. It’ one big jobs program and boost for the defense industrialists. The U.S military has become a glorified welfare program. The profits defense contractors racked up over the past twenty years is beyond imagination as is the pay and bonuses of those that volunteered for multiple tours of duty to pad their wallets and retirements. They can now abandon the Afghans who they used just like the American people because they see another looming threat in China they figure it’s time to pull the plug on Afghanistan since it wore itself out. They created the Chinese threat which is viable enough to consume even more resources and generate greater profits than Afghanistan ever could.

  114. @Farenheit
    All over Afghanistan, there are men, about the same age as your average isteve commenter, sitting in their hovels, with their AK-47 leaned up in the corner of the room. These men have now put the two most powerful empires of the age to route.

    Just remember that the next time some leftest bellows that assault rifles shouldn't be protected by the 2nd amendment. We're on the wrong end of the stick, but that is exactly what is was written for.

    Replies: @Mike1, @Kjr

    Exactly.

  115. Nick Diaz [AKA "Rockford Tyson"] says:

    Steve Sailer trying to save face out of sheer patriotic pride when he said: “Did the U.S have the military strength to topple the Taliban? Yes.”

    You lost to the Taliban. Get over it. A war is not won by battles, but by achieving your final strategic goal. Toppling the Taliban is irrelevant if your ultimate goal is to make sure that they never hold power again. If you toppled the Taliban government, lost thousands of men, spent billions of Dollars, and in the end that very government is back to power, then what have you accomplished? NOTHING.

    America lost, just like it lost in Vietnam. A Pathetic performance by a coutry that self-titles “The Hyperpower”. The excuses are endless, just like American Republican patriotics have endless excuses for making the case that America did not lose in Vietnam:

    “We won every major battle against the Vietcongs.”

    “The liberals back home held our military back.”

    “We would have vanquished the VK if we stayed there just a couple more years. But the Hippies back home betrayed us”

    It reminds me of sports fans making excuses for why their teams lost. Same ST. The bottom line is that the stated *final* strategic objective of the U.S was to hold Saigon, and Saigon fell. That’s the war being lost, despite how many battles you want to brag about that you won. Likewise, after 20 years, thousands of American boys dead, and billions of Dollars spent, the towel heads are back to power. Pointless.

    The U.S Military is probably the most overrated military ever. Given the huge amounts of money that the U.S spends on it, the fact that even Banana Republics can some times give America a fight is beyond laughable. Of course, this is partly due to the fact that huge amounts of that cash goes into the Industriial-military complex, which overcharges the American People hugely. And when it comes to actual Powers, the recent war games demonstrate that America would lose to both Russia and China in a non-nuclear conflict. In fact, against Russia, it wouldn’t even be close according to the thousands of sims that were run.

    • Replies: @BluEidDvl
    @Nick Diaz

    Absolutely. It doesn’t matter how much you support your military. How much you spout “thank you for your service”. How many flags you fly or military themed tee shirts or bumper stickers you have. It doesn’t matter how many time you say “the troops didn’t lose, they were betrayed by the brass in the pentagon”. None of that matters. If your nation starts/engages in a war & doesn’t achieve its military goals/objectives.. it lost!. Just like Vietnam. We won virtually every engagement & had (then) state of the art technology yet scrambled out of the whole mess shamefully leaving our South Vietnamese allies to their fate. In Vietnam, we lost!. In Afghanistan, we lost!. The scale of this debacle is just starting to reverberate around the world & you can be assured that the Chinese & the Russians are watching this VERY closely. 20yrs, $2 TRILLION of our nations treasure. Thousands dead & tens of thousands of wounded & psychologically scared for life. The end, the whole sordid mess folded like a cheap suit & they retook Kabul in less than 3 weeks.

    So two peasant armies defeated the “greatest military in history”. It’s quite apparent they we’re not very good at the empire business. If we’re not willing to support our troops & see our objectives out to the end then we need to bring ALL the troops home because we suck at this!.

    I’m a veteran btw & it pains me terribly to acknowledge these truths but.. there it is.. 🤔

    , @Mike_from_SGV
    @Nick Diaz

    It has become a woke jobs program, not a war-winning organization.

    , @MEH 0910
    @Nick Diaz


    Steve Sailer trying to save face out of sheer patriotic pride when he said: “Did the U.S have the military strength to topple the Taliban? Yes.”
     
    Rockford Tyson Nick Diaz, Steve isn't doing what you claim he's doing.
  116. Should have brought in Syrian refugees and paid the men as mercenaries.

    Have them knock up the local women and make half the country a bastardized American base with mercenaries in the most dangerous positions. That would be the cheapest way of doing it.

    The idea that the locals would risk their lives for democracy and Starbucks never made sense.

    They are all Muslim so why risk your life for moderate Islam if the radicals will most likely leave you alone with a plot of land and some goats?

    Our leaders are idiots. They still think they can turn a country like Afghanistan into an American province with a bit of the ‘ol free market magic and democracy.

    The lessons were already there with the Russian-Afghan war. The Afghans will shoot rpgs at your troop columns for kicks and don’t really care if you retaliate. You burn up tons of fuel trying to chase them around mountains with helicopters.

    You would have to seriously disrupt the culture to change anything. Otherwise they will just churn out another crop of 18 year olds ready to pick up an rpg.

    We should have left after taking out Osama. Like I said before our leaders can’t nation build in Black areas so why does anyone think they can change Afghanistan? They don’t have the guts to do what is needed.

    • Agree: Kylie
  117. @Paperback Writer
    I have an honest question:

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Serious answers only.

    Thanks.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @donut, @J.Ross, @anon, @Che Blutarsky, @Prof. Woland, @fish, @John Johnson, @Midnights, @Mike_from_SGV

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Serious answers only.

    The California Republican Party.

  118. @WilmaPie
    We had 20 years to win hearts and minds and let the good guys there build up their own army and infrastructure. You know, that neo-con dream.

    Yet now the Taliban is coming back and quickly.

    Any lessons to be learned?

    Replies: @John Johnson

    We had 20 years to win hearts and minds and let the good guys there build up their own army and infrastructure. You know, that neo-con dream.

    Yet now the Taliban is coming back and quickly.

    Any lessons to be learned?

    The lesson was already known by American Indians which is that tribal chiefs that want war must go in first to show their confidence in winning.

    I would still support a GoFundMe for all neocons. Let’s get Billy Kristol an armored vest and an M-16 and take him to Kabul.

    FOR DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM!!!!

    GO BILLY GO!!!!

    (pushes Billy out of the helicopter)

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    @John Johnson

    As God is my witness, I thought Communists could fly.

    Replies: @JMcG

  119. @Menschmaschine
    The funny thing is, the Taliban actually tried to surrender but the US would not accept it.

    DID YOU KNOW that shortly after the U.S. invaded Afghanistan, the Taliban tried to surrender?

    For centuries in Afghanistan, when a rival force had come to power, the defeated one would put down their weapons and be integrated into the new power structure — obviously with much less power, or none at all. That’s how you do with neighbors you have to continue to live with. This isn’t a football game, where the teams go to different cities when it’s over. That may be hard for us to remember, because the U.S. hasn’t fought a protracted war on its own soil since the Civil War.

    So when the Taliban came to surrender, the U.S. turned them down repeatedly, in a series of arrogant blunders spelled out in Anand Gopal’s investigative treatment of the Afghanistan war, “No Good Men Among the Living.”



    Only full annihilation was enough for the Bush administration. They wanted more terrorists in body bags. The problem was that the Taliban had stopped fighting, having either fled to Pakistan or melted back into civilian life. Al Qaeda, for its part, was down to a handful of members.

    So how do you kill terrorists if there aren’t any?

    Simple: Afghans that the U.S. worked with understood the predicament their military sponsors were in, so they fabricated bad guys. Demand has a way of creating supply, and the U.S. was paying for information that led to the death or capture of Taliban fighters. Suddenly there were Taliban everywhere. Score-settling ran amok; all you had to do to get your neighbor killed or sent to Guantánamo was tell the U.S. they were members of the Taliban.

    Doors would be kicked in, no questions asked. The men left standing became warlords, built massive fortunes, and shipped their wealth abroad. “We are not nation-building again,” President Donald Trump declared Monday night. Well, we never were, unless building high-rises with looted cash in Dubai counts.

    After a few years of this charade, after their surrender efforts were repeatedly rebuffed, the old Taliban started picking up guns again. When they were driven from power, the population was happy to see them go. The U.S. managed to make them popular again.

    Liberals then spent the 2008 presidential campaign complaining that the U.S. had “ignored” Afghanistan — when, in reality, the parts of the country without troop presence were the only parts at peace, facing no insurgency against the Afghan government, such as it was. Then President Barack Obama came in and launched a surge in troop levels while simultaneously announcing a withdrawal — coupled with a heightened focus on night raids, relying on the same system of unreliable intelligence that had netted so many uninvolved people already.

    And now Trump says he has a new and better strategy. He says the U.S. needs to get Pakistan more involved — except, of course, Pakistan’s intelligence service has been propping up the Taliban for decades.

    Gopal’s book is the definitive account of how the war went off the rails. It reads like a novel, but is an all-too-real portrait of three Afghans as they lived through the war — a pro-U.S. warlord, a Taliban commander, and a housewife. I’d suggest Trump read it — the book provides a dire warning against the sort of war effort the president is about to double down on — but it’s longer than a page, which his advisers say is the max he’ll digest. And besides, the only thing he seems interested in is the fact that Afghanistan has a bunch of minerals he thinks the U.S. is owed.

    Before Trump spends the windfall he hopes to reap from mining Afghanistan, he should consider one starting reality: We are now losing a war to an enemy that already surrendered. That’s not easy to do.
     
    https://static.theintercept.com/amp/afghanistan-donald-trump-taliban-surrender-here-we-are.html

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @Prester John

    Everything is modelled off the great victory in WW2. This includes how you know you’ve won, what will happen to the opposing country afterwards and all of that; but WW2 was almost unique in those respects. Normally wars end with a negotiated surrender and no need to seek total victory. Somehow the US still hasn’t worked that out. De-Baathification was a farce re-run of de-Nazification. Refusing to accept the Taliban’s surrender was like closing onto Berlin so no surrender was even needed. This is all very stupid. It worked once, in unique circumstances, but it never worked any other time. You enemy needs to be willing to stand ground and basically fight and die to the last, rather than run off and live to fight again.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @rebel yell
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Also, we successfully occupied and rebuilt Japan and Germany because the Japanese people and German people were disciplined and well-civilized people. Once they were set on a course of rebuilding under American control they naturally focused on successful rebuilding.
    None of that applies to the Afghan people or many other peoples of the world.

  120. @Bill
    @Almost Missouri

    It's the Democrats' fault that Bush the Lesser invaded and tried to colonize Afghanistan. So, get to the polls and vote for the GOP. It's our only hope!

    Replies: @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @Marquis

    I agree with the sarcasm ….not the sentiment.

  121. @Skyler the Weird
    Soviet Commisars in the Eighties were very surprised that these 8th century herdsmen would not accept the modern glories of Communism and the dictatorship of the proletariat. Why did the Neocons think the Afghanis would accept Liberal Democracy with Gay Pride parades and Intersectional feminism? They just want to pray to Allah then make love to their wives and beat their livestock or vice versa when the mood hits.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Alden

    They just want to pray to Allah then make love to their wives…

    “Wives”. Yeah, right.

    • Troll: Charon
  122. @Triteleia Laxa
    @Menschmaschine

    Everything is modelled off the great victory in WW2. This includes how you know you've won, what will happen to the opposing country afterwards and all of that; but WW2 was almost unique in those respects. Normally wars end with a negotiated surrender and no need to seek total victory. Somehow the US still hasn't worked that out. De-Baathification was a farce re-run of de-Nazification. Refusing to accept the Taliban's surrender was like closing onto Berlin so no surrender was even needed. This is all very stupid. It worked once, in unique circumstances, but it never worked any other time. You enemy needs to be willing to stand ground and basically fight and die to the last, rather than run off and live to fight again.

    Replies: @rebel yell

    Also, we successfully occupied and rebuilt Japan and Germany because the Japanese people and German people were disciplined and well-civilized people. Once they were set on a course of rebuilding under American control they naturally focused on successful rebuilding.
    None of that applies to the Afghan people or many other peoples of the world.

    • Agree: Charon, Old Prude
  123. • Replies: @CCZ
    @Desiderius

    https://twitter.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1426763243893280769

    Replies: @Desiderius

  124. @The Alarmist
    Let’s just say that the locals were happy to see the US when the Taliban were pissing up stream while the villagers were bathing. Then the welcome was over when they realised the US was pissing upstream.

    Replies: @JMcG

    Just like the Wehrmacht in the Ukraine.

  125. @Bill
    @Almost Missouri

    It's the Democrats' fault that Bush the Lesser invaded and tried to colonize Afghanistan. So, get to the polls and vote for the GOP. It's our only hope!

    Replies: @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @Marquis

    It’s the Democrats’ fault that Bush the Lesser invaded and tried to colonize Afghanistan.

    It’s the Democrats’ fault that he could say something as false as “Islam is a religion of peace” and actually believe it. He’d been swallowing their propaganda for forty years..

    Note, too their supremely cynical silence after he’d said it. Democrats know a lot more about race than they let on. (With 200 years of intimate experience with blacks, how could they not?)

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Reg Cæsar

    Islam is a religion of peace and quick burials at sea.

  126. There is a movie, I believe the title was “The Beast” about a Russian tank crew, hence the beast, in Afghanistan, low budget good flic. Find it and watch it.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Buffalo Joe

    I saw a good Russian movie about Afghanistan:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_9th_Company

    Awesome scenes.

    Replies: @Hunsdon, @Joe Stalin

    , @Hunsdon
    @Buffalo Joe

    Daskal was right.

    , @Kylie
    @Buffalo Joe

    "There is a movie, I believe the title was “The Beast” about a Russian tank crew, hence the beast, in Afghanistan, low budget good flic."

    Excellent movie.

  127. The global finance people have already portioned out our country, just like Pope Alexander VI divvied up the New World between Spain and Portugal.

    Nobody should respond to the next “war” and all the white guys currently serving should muster out.

    Why fight for the next mall? will they put a military cemetery next to the 50,000 unit housing development needed to house just this month’s 200K new democrat voters that Biden brought in? will non-English-speaking PoCs put out little flags every year? whose flag?

    (Yes, I’m bitter. Also, thank you for your service to your country. It sounds trite, but I appreciate everyone who reads this who served. Even though Iraq and Afghanistan were botched foreign policy disasters.)

  128. @The Alarmist
    @CMV


    No I think Biden is making the right decision here.
     
    You’re assuming he actually made a decision ... my bet would be that he spends most of his morning briefing drooling into his oatmeal.

    Replies: @Dale Gribble

    What does it take around here for the media industrial complex to put a negative gas lantern to POTUS Cool Joe?

    Biden answers a CBS News chicks question about whether he feels responsible for the safety of liberated women in Afghanistan “no.”

    Biden answer made me think he studied Pat Buchanan.

    All of a sudden the mainstream press stories talk about a collapse, helicopters pushed off aircraft carriers, defense aides unprepared for a sudden evacuation, thousands of women gays and collaborators with the Americans facing certain death.

    The mainstream media finally talks about how Biden is in hiding at Camp David.

    Sounds like a warning to Biden and future presidents not to pull out of our friends’ Middle Eastern wars.

  129. @Adam Smith
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Assuming the official story, what was our business after the fact?
     
    We must secure the existence of schools for Afghan girls so they can learn to read...

    https://static.dw.com/image/55614030_303.jpg

    And a future for Their Democracy™ in Afghanistan...

    https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/v1492200417/articles/2014/04/07/would-you-risk-your-life-to-vote-it-looks-like-7-million-afghans-did/140406-afghan-elections-tease_feegj9.jpg

    I mean,

    We must secure the existence of Poppies in the fields so we can supply the raw materials to produce the opium and fentanyl so our benevolent overlords can wage Opium War 3.0 against Americans here at home.

    https://publicintelligence.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/USopium7.png

    Umm, what I really mean is,

    Thar's rare earth minerals in them thar hills.

    https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/104659264-RTXV5TL-afghanistan.jpg

    Besides, the $2Trillion spent in Afghanistan over the last 20 years is good for the economy. (Surely you love the economy?) Think of all those missiles, bombs, guns, ammo, humvees, tanks, helicopters, fighter jets, the fuel to power them, etc. and all the wonderful jobs this wise policy provided.

    https://www.953mnc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/military-humvees.jpg

    Think about all that glorious GDPee.
    So much GDPee.

    Replies: @rebel yell, @Anonymous Jew, @Achmed E. Newman

    Most people (not here) don’t see the obvious flaw in the military-spending-economy argument. When I buy a Honda Accord, it’s only because I value the car more than the \$22,000 I spend on it. Likewise, Honda values the \$22,000 more than the car. As a result both parties are better off and wealth is created (the wealth being the spread between the car’s price and the value I receive plus Honda’s spread – ie their profit). When the government takes my \$22,000 to buy a tank, I’m not better off; I’m still out \$22,000 but now with zero benefit. And it’s impossible for the tank manufacturer to make a 100% profit to offset my loss. As a result, wealth is lost (and transferred), but not created.

    Which reminds me of the most clever question from my Econ 101 professor: on what day is the most wealth lost?*

    (*Christmas Day: if the \$30 sweater you gave me was worth more than \$30 to me I would have already bought it).

    *Next best Econ 101 question: can you put a monetary price on an individuals life? But that question is more appropriate for Steve’s next post about Coronavirus policy.

    • Agree: Houston 1992
    • Replies: @Polistra
    @Anonymous Jew

    Also there's the little matter of the fact that most of the trillions "invested" in war matériel tends to get blown up.

    , @rebel yell
    @Anonymous Jew


    *Next best Econ 101 question: can you put a monetary price on an individuals life?
     
    Well that's a fun question even if it's not answerable.
    The monetary value I put on my son's life is all the dollars I can get my hands on, and millions more if I could get it to pay forward to his children and grandchildren.
    I've read that you can buy happiness up to about $200K per year (salaries below this result in families reporting more stress and problems). Bill Gates and his type don't report being more happy than people who make $200k per year, so that appears to be the limit. So if $200K per year buys as much happiness as money can buy, we could call that the value of a human life.
    If I were King and deciding whether to spend pubic money on super expensive medical care for one patient or lots of penicillin shots for others, I would count the years saved in each option, which would favor the many, and personally meet the dying patient, which would weigh in his favor, and consult many experts and pray to the Lord and make the best decision I could and in the end would put a monetary price on an individual's life. But I would not swear by it.
  130. When the Taliban find a thief, they paint his face black.

  131. Yeah the CRT didn’t help, but when he turned on his CinC the day after Barr saved the Church of the Presidents (preventing a Notre Dame scale demoralization of the people) and put together the photo-op (sic) to reassure the populace that he (Barr) had done Milley’s goddamnned job for him and the government we elected was still intact, then Milley “apologized” for the whole thing but paid no price, that was the end of that.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Desiderius

    Prince is a scum bag.

    https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/blackwater-founder-erik-prince-accused-in-us-district-court-of-intent-to-kill/

    https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/blackwater-founder-implicated-murder/

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/world/middleeast/erik-prince-libya-embargo.html

    https://www.forbes.com/return-of-erik-prince/#6e75bf7750aa



    When Prince pitched a plan to privatize the war in Afghanistan in 2017, the White House took him seriously. "He actually had the most cogent argument, much more than the guys who were 'stay the course,' " Trump's former chief strategist Steve Bannon tells Forbes.
     
    So give him Jewish money, and he and his murderous cabal will fight in Afghanistan for America. Would the plan once and for all remove the Taliban? The arrogance is wretched considering...

    In 2004 the State Department found itself ill-prepared to provide full security for the rapidly growing population of diplomats in Baghdad operating under the Coalition Provisional Authority. The State Department selected Blackwater that year to fill gaps in its Worldwide Protective Services Contract, with an initial award of $106 million, according to a State Department inspector general’s audit. By 2009, Blackwater had been paid more than $1.35 billion for security services in Iraq.

    Blackwater quickly became a symbol of what government watchdogs said was out-of-control war spending. Contractors were criticized for acting as if they were above Iraqi law. Blackwater convoys ran Iraqi civilian drivers off the roads and frequently used machine gun fire as a default warning when locals got too close. Their behavior angered and alienated the local population, even as some of the U.S. ground forces came to rely on Blackwater in gun battles where additional military assets could not respond.

    Then came Nisoor Square. On Sept. 16, 2007, after several previous hostile engagements that day, Blackwater contractors fired on a crowd of Iraqi civilians, killing 17. The Iraqi government ordered the security firm out of the country. The State Department ended Blackwater’s contract the next year. Some former employees involved in that shooting incident remain in jail, awaiting sentencing in the U.S courts.
     

    Replies: @Nathan, @WJ

  132. The Taliban must be quaking in their boots to learn that Biden just appointed a gal named “Tracey” to play a key role in the wind-down. I guess no one named “Bambi” was available. I would have preferred someone with a name like..let’s see, where is my list of World War II military leaders…General Howling Mad Smith or Admiral Bull Halsey.

  133. @Buffalo Joe
    There is a movie, I believe the title was "The Beast" about a Russian tank crew, hence the beast, in Afghanistan, low budget good flic. Find it and watch it.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Hunsdon, @Kylie

    I saw a good Russian movie about Afghanistan:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_9th_Company

    Awesome scenes.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    @Paperback Writer

    True fact.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Joe Stalin
    @Paperback Writer

    No English Subtitles.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1I73nhdHrE

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

  134. @John Pepple
    For me it was reading James Michener's Caravans, which I read as a freshman in college about 1970. Somewhere in that book it was declared that Iran was about 50 years ahead of Afghanistan in becoming a modern country. But then came 1979, and those 50 years all vanished as Muslims took over and brought them back to the stone age.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @WJ, @James Speaks, @Thea

  135. That was one of the greatest movies of all time. And career highlights for both Caine and Connery.

  136. The 82nd keeps one brigade constantly on standby to “be anywhere in the world in 24 hours”. This designation, the “ready” brigade, which rotates among the brigades of the division, is one of the prime reasons that we keep such a large airborne force. If they don’t move out for this you have to wonder why we keep spending so much to maintain such a force.

  137. @J.Ross
    IT'S PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
    Just kidding, seed oils are of course haram.
    https://twitter.com/haqmal/status/1425502397627990017?s=21

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Kjr, @YetAnotherAnon

  138. @AndrewR
    Spoiler alert from Wiki-pedo-ia*:

    He is also struck by the beauty of a girl called Roxane, the name of Alexander's wife, and cancels their pact to avoid women, saying he will marry her in order to leave the people an heir. When she is reluctantly brought to him, he tries to kiss her, but she, terrified that the touch of a god means death to a mortal, bites his cheek. Seeing him bleed, the people realise he is only human and try to grab the British impostors.
     
    If one feared death then I don't think it would be advisable to bite the cheek of a god.

    *As recently as a few years ago I would feel guilty when I scrolled past the Wikipedos' request for shekels. I even donated money on a couple occasions. But the neo-leftist bias is so blatant now that I just laugh when I see the requests. Bezos and Soros can pay for the site.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “He is also struck by the beauty of a girl called Roxane…”

    So did The Police.

    Finally, a solid effort by iSteve.

  139. California State Constitution
    Article 9 §1
    Education

    A general diffusion of knowledge and intelligence being essential to the preservation of the rights and liberties of the people, the Legislature shall encourage by all suitable means the promotion of intellectual, scientific, moral, and agricultural improvement.

    Government nation-building abroad is just as sucky as government citizen-building at home.

  140. @John Johnson
    @WilmaPie

    We had 20 years to win hearts and minds and let the good guys there build up their own army and infrastructure. You know, that neo-con dream.

    Yet now the Taliban is coming back and quickly.

    Any lessons to be learned?

    The lesson was already known by American Indians which is that tribal chiefs that want war must go in first to show their confidence in winning.

    I would still support a GoFundMe for all neocons. Let's get Billy Kristol an armored vest and an M-16 and take him to Kabul.

    FOR DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM!!!!

    GO BILLY GO!!!!

    (pushes Billy out of the helicopter)

    Replies: @Hunsdon

    As God is my witness, I thought Communists could fly.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Hunsdon

    Awesome. Pinochet approves!

  141. @Buffalo Joe
    There is a movie, I believe the title was "The Beast" about a Russian tank crew, hence the beast, in Afghanistan, low budget good flic. Find it and watch it.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Hunsdon, @Kylie

    Daskal was right.

  142. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1426667305107267591?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1426664561940127744?s=20

    Yeah the CRT didn't help, but when he turned on his CinC the day after Barr saved the Church of the Presidents (preventing a Notre Dame scale demoralization of the people) and put together the photo-op (sic) to reassure the populace that he (Barr) had done Milley's goddamnned job for him and the government we elected was still intact, then Milley "apologized" for the whole thing but paid no price, that was the end of that.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    Prince is a scum bag.

    https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/blackwater-founder-erik-prince-accused-in-us-district-court-of-intent-to-kill/

    https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/blackwater-founder-implicated-murder/

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/world/middleeast/erik-prince-libya-embargo.html

    https://www.forbes.com/return-of-erik-prince/#6e75bf7750aa

    When Prince pitched a plan to privatize the war in Afghanistan in 2017, the White House took him seriously. “He actually had the most cogent argument, much more than the guys who were ‘stay the course,’ ” Trump’s former chief strategist Steve Bannon tells Forbes.

    So give him Jewish money, and he and his murderous cabal will fight in Afghanistan for America. Would the plan once and for all remove the Taliban? The arrogance is wretched considering…

    In 2004 the State Department found itself ill-prepared to provide full security for the rapidly growing population of diplomats in Baghdad operating under the Coalition Provisional Authority. The State Department selected Blackwater that year to fill gaps in its Worldwide Protective Services Contract, with an initial award of \$106 million, according to a State Department inspector general’s audit. By 2009, Blackwater had been paid more than \$1.35 billion for security services in Iraq.

    Blackwater quickly became a symbol of what government watchdogs said was out-of-control war spending. Contractors were criticized for acting as if they were above Iraqi law. Blackwater convoys ran Iraqi civilian drivers off the roads and frequently used machine gun fire as a default warning when locals got too close. Their behavior angered and alienated the local population, even as some of the U.S. ground forces came to rely on Blackwater in gun battles where additional military assets could not respond.

    Then came Nisoor Square. On Sept. 16, 2007, after several previous hostile engagements that day, Blackwater contractors fired on a crowd of Iraqi civilians, killing 17. The Iraqi government ordered the security firm out of the country. The State Department ended Blackwater’s contract the next year. Some former employees involved in that shooting incident remain in jail, awaiting sentencing in the U.S courts.

    • Replies: @Nathan
    @Corvinus

    Oh, wow, get a load of Johnny Uninformed here. Do you know how corrupt the prosecution of those guards was? So corrupt that their conviction was tossed by a federal judge in 2009.

    Here, do some reading:

    https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/crime/2020/12/23/donald-trump-pardons-maryville-veteran-former-blackwater-contractor-dustin-heard/4023707001/

    https://www.mcall.com/sdut-lawyers-government-misconduct-in-blackwater-case-2009nov26-story.html

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704065404574636170633783890

    https://youtu.be/hRAcUnh4LpQ

    Please. Please. Never set foot in a voting booth again. The fact that such ignorant people have the franchise is absurd.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @WJ
    @Corvinus

    Cernovich believes that we should keep any little ole war going just for training? Idiot grifter loser bullshitter.

  143. @Paperback Writer
    @Buffalo Joe

    I saw a good Russian movie about Afghanistan:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_9th_Company

    Awesome scenes.

    Replies: @Hunsdon, @Joe Stalin

    True fact.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Hunsdon



    I saw a good Russian movie about Afghanistan... I saw it on DVD...
     
    True fact.
     
    Was it a free gift?


    Was the country completely destroyed?


    https://www.espree.com/sites/default/files/2019-10/AfghanHound.png


    Okay, I'll cease and desist. Back to our regular routine.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

  144. @SafeNow
    @Unit472

    “I worry that those 3,000 combat troops Biden is flying into Kabul to secure the airport so higher ranking US officials can get out could become POWs or hostages.”

    I suspect that the “pallets of cash” protocol is being renewed right now. If not actually delivering the pallets, quiet discussions are underway about pallets for “rebuilding” being delivered later if you are measured in your actions now. The only problem with this plan is that the Taliban are so disjointed that quiet discussions will not get the word out.

    Replies: @Greta Handel, @Unit472

    Isn’t another problem that Uncle Sam can’t be trusted to fulfill such an agreement?

  145. @Hunsdon
    @John Johnson

    As God is my witness, I thought Communists could fly.

    Replies: @JMcG

    Awesome. Pinochet approves!

    • LOL: Old Prude
  146. @Altai2
    At the end of the day the US lost in Afghanistan like it lost in Vietnam because the only way to win was to commit genocide. There was no true army or institution to fight, you were fighting the people themselves, ultimately.

    The Taliban are just mountain tribal Pashtuns. You'd have to kill every man of fighting age from those people to defeat them. What else do those men have to do but fight? Just like in Yemen, what else are those guys going to do but fight?

    There were lots of opportunities to settle this with some kind of power-sharing agreement and the posting of UN or other troops to protect areas of non-Pashtuns but for some reason this was seen as more acceptable. Maybe the people at the US State Department were disappointed at other solutions that didn't have a high enough body count for their tastes.

    Replies: @fish, @AnotherDad

    At the end of the day the US lost in Afghanistan like it lost in Vietnam because the only way to win was to commit genocide. There was no true army or institution to fight, you were fighting the people themselves, ultimately.

    I don’t think full on–kill the men, enjoy the women–conquest is quite required, but you have to be pretty nasty. Basically make everyone, the men of every town, every village responsible for keeping their joint “safe”. Then lowering the boom if they do not. (Since we won’t do the later, you don’t get the former.)

    The US–and its people–are not prepared to do what is required to actually win. So we shouldn’t be doing it.

    In any case it’s their nation, not ours. Killing the leaders who let Osama bin Laden hang there was completely sufficient. Kill them, tell the next guys “don’t do that” and move on.

    For a tiny fraction of the cost of this Bush-Obama-Trump boondoggle we could have an essentially impenetrable southern border. Something that is actually the job of the United States government.

    Now with Biden we’ll be out of Afghanistan … and spending the money to support the millions invading us. Peachy.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @AnotherDad


    The US–and its people–are not prepared to do what is required to actually win.
     
    This is true in so many ways. It's why we ended up with both Dreamers and no border wall. And it's why after a year-and-a-half of lockdowns and mask mandates, people are willing to contemplate no-fly lists but people have not taken the simple but clear measures necessary to reduce their COVID risk profiles.

    Lockdowns and Operation Warpspeed were the COVID equivalent of the mission Charlie Sheen is sent on in Apocalypse Now, meant to protect us from the truth rather than to win.

    As far as Invade-Invite goes, people like Ron Unz probably think Bush-Cheney were Marlon Brando, but in reality they were Robert Duvall, the film's "moral" alternative to Colonel Kurtz.

    America is a nation of fatties, which is why Afghanistan won't be the last war the US loses.
  147. @Corvinus
    @Desiderius

    Prince is a scum bag.

    https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/blackwater-founder-erik-prince-accused-in-us-district-court-of-intent-to-kill/

    https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/blackwater-founder-implicated-murder/

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/world/middleeast/erik-prince-libya-embargo.html

    https://www.forbes.com/return-of-erik-prince/#6e75bf7750aa



    When Prince pitched a plan to privatize the war in Afghanistan in 2017, the White House took him seriously. "He actually had the most cogent argument, much more than the guys who were 'stay the course,' " Trump's former chief strategist Steve Bannon tells Forbes.
     
    So give him Jewish money, and he and his murderous cabal will fight in Afghanistan for America. Would the plan once and for all remove the Taliban? The arrogance is wretched considering...

    In 2004 the State Department found itself ill-prepared to provide full security for the rapidly growing population of diplomats in Baghdad operating under the Coalition Provisional Authority. The State Department selected Blackwater that year to fill gaps in its Worldwide Protective Services Contract, with an initial award of $106 million, according to a State Department inspector general’s audit. By 2009, Blackwater had been paid more than $1.35 billion for security services in Iraq.

    Blackwater quickly became a symbol of what government watchdogs said was out-of-control war spending. Contractors were criticized for acting as if they were above Iraqi law. Blackwater convoys ran Iraqi civilian drivers off the roads and frequently used machine gun fire as a default warning when locals got too close. Their behavior angered and alienated the local population, even as some of the U.S. ground forces came to rely on Blackwater in gun battles where additional military assets could not respond.

    Then came Nisoor Square. On Sept. 16, 2007, after several previous hostile engagements that day, Blackwater contractors fired on a crowd of Iraqi civilians, killing 17. The Iraqi government ordered the security firm out of the country. The State Department ended Blackwater’s contract the next year. Some former employees involved in that shooting incident remain in jail, awaiting sentencing in the U.S courts.
     

    Replies: @Nathan, @WJ

    Oh, wow, get a load of Johnny Uninformed here. Do you know how corrupt the prosecution of those guards was? So corrupt that their conviction was tossed by a federal judge in 2009.

    Here, do some reading:

    https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/crime/2020/12/23/donald-trump-pardons-maryville-veteran-former-blackwater-contractor-dustin-heard/4023707001/

    https://www.mcall.com/sdut-lawyers-government-misconduct-in-blackwater-case-2009nov26-story.html

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704065404574636170633783890

    Please. Please. Never set foot in a voting booth again. The fact that such ignorant people have the franchise is absurd.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Nathan

    "Do you know how corrupt the prosecution of those guards was?"

    The group was convicted in a court of law. Of course the defense lawyers had claimed prosecutorial misconduct and corruption. Leave it to Trump to pardon a convicted war criminal.

    "Oh, wow, get a load of Johnny Uninformed here."

    Barnes makes unsupported after unsupported allegations. Educate yourself rather than be duped.

    https://scholarship.law.gwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1075&context=faculty_publications

    Blackwater were modern-day Hessians gone berserk. This group had a broad mandate in their charge to protect civilians. That the mercenaries had been specifically exempted from the standard rules of engagement, and the company was supposedly granted immunity from any prosecution for crimes committed provided them with a God-like mentality. The GWBush Administration permitted Blackwater (and Halliburton) to conduct their business in secret and even managed to haggle his GOP allies to vote down an anti-war profteering bill. Face the fact it was all about the dollars--Rumsfeld and Cheney worked to ensure their companies would immensely profit without consequences.

    You're out of your league here.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Nathan

  148. Note to Steve…

    Remember this old video?

    Maybe they were putting us on…

  149. @Harry Baldwin
    In 2012, Mark Steyn wrote,"Six weeks after the last Nato soldier leaves Afghanistan, it will be as if we were never there... We came, we saw, we left no trace. America's longest war will leave nothing behind."

    He now acknowledges that the "six weeks" timeline was overly optimistic. We haven't even finished leaving and it's already as if we were never there, except for leaving tons of materiel for the Taliban and flush Swiss bank accounts for the puppets we put in charge.

    Column is behind paywall, but here it is:
    Mark Steyn: America’s longest war will leave no trace

    By ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER
    March 2, 2012 at 3:25 p.m.

    Say what you like about Afghans, but they’re admirably straightforward. The mobs outside the bases enflamed over the latest Western affront to their exquisitely refined cultural sensitivities couldn’t put it any plainer: “Die, die, foreigners!”

    And foreigners do die. U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. John Loftis, 44, and Army Maj. Robert Marchanti II, 48, lost their lives not on some mission out on the far horizon in wild tribal lands in the dead of night but in the offices of the Afghan Interior Ministry. In a “secure room” that required a numerical code to access. Gunned down by an Afghan “intelligence officer.” Who then departed the scene of the crime unimpeded by any of his colleagues.

    Some news outlets reported the event as a “security breach.” But what exactly was breached? The murderer was by all accounts an employee of the Afghan government, with legitimate rights of access to the building and its secure room, and “liaising” with his U.S. advisers and “mentors” was part of the job. In Afghanistan, foreigners are dying at the hands of the locals who know them best. The Afghans trained by Westerners, paid by Westerners and befriended by Westerners are the ones who have the easiest opportunity to kill them. It is sufficiently non-unusual that the Pentagon, as is the wont with bureaucracies, already has a term for it: “green-on-blue incidents,” in which a uniformed Afghan turns his gun on his Western “allies.”

    So we have a convenient label for what’s happening; what we don’t have is a strategy to stop it – other than more money, more “hearts and minds” for people who seem notably lacking in both, and more bulk orders of the bestselling book “Three Cups Of Tea,” an Oprahfied heap of drivel extensively exposed as an utter fraud but which a delusional Washington insists on sticking in the kit bag of its Afghan-bound officer class.

    Don’t fancy the tea? A U.S. base in southern Afghanistan was recently stricken by food poisoning due to mysteriously high amounts of chlorine in the coffee. As Navy Capt. John Kirby explained, “We don’t know if it was deliberate or something in the cleaning process.”

    Oh, dear. You could chisel that on the tombstones of any number of expeditionary forces over the centuries: “Afghanistan. It’s something in the cleaning process.”

    In the past couple of months, two prominent politicians of different nations visiting their troops on the ground have used the same image to me for Western military bases: crusader forts. Behind the fortifications, a mini-West has been built in a cheerless land: There are Coke machines and Krispy Kreme doughnuts. Safely back within the gates, a man can climb out of the full RoboCop and stop pretending he enjoys three cups of tea with the duplicitous warlords, drug barons and pederasts who pass for Afghanistan’s ruling class. The visiting Western dignitary is cautiously shuttled through outer and inner perimeters, and reminded that, even here, there are areas he would be ill-advised to venture unaccompanied, and tries to banish memories of his first tour all those years ago when aides still twittered optimistically about the possibility of a photo-op at a girls’ schoolroom in Jalalabad or an Internet start-up in Kabul.

    The last crusader fort I visited was Kerak Castle in Jordan a few years ago. It was built in the 1140s, and still impresses today. I doubt there will be any remains of our latter-day fortresses a millennium hence. Six weeks after the last NATO soldier leaves Afghanistan, it will be as if we were never there. Before the election in 2010, the New York Post carried a picture of women registering to vote in Herat, all in identical top-to-toe bright blue burkas, just as they would have looked on Sept. 10, 2001. We came, we saw, we left no trace. America’s longest war will leave nothing behind.
    They can breach our security, but we cannot breach theirs – the vast impregnable psychological fortress in which what passes for the Pushtun mind resides. Someone accidentally burned a Quran your pals had already defaced with covert messages? Die, die, foreigners! The president of the United States issues a groveling and characteristically clueless apology for it? Die, die, foreigners! The American friend who has trained you and hired you and paid you has arrived for a meeting? Die, die, foreigners! And those are the Afghans who know us best. To the upcountry village headmen, the fellows descending from the skies in full body armor are as alien as were the space invaders to Americans in the film “Independence Day.”

    The Rumsfeld strategy that toppled the Taliban over a decade ago was brilliant and innovative: special forces on horseback using GPS to call in unmanned drones. They will analyze it in staff colleges around the world for decades. But what we ought to be analyzing instead is the sad, aimless, bloated, arthritic, transnationalized folly of what followed. The United States is an historical anomaly: the nonimperial superpower. Colonialism is not in its DNA, and in some ways that speaks well for it, and in other ways, in a hostile and fast-changing world of predators and opportunists, it does not. But even nations of an unimperialist bent have roused themselves to great transformative “cleaning processes” within living memory: The Ottawa Citizen’s David Warren wrote this week that he had “conferred the benefit of the doubt” on “the grand bureaucratic project of ‘nation building’… predicated on post-War successes in Germany and Japan.”

    It wasn’t that long ago, was it? Except that, as Warren says, the times are “so utterly changed.” It seems certain that, waging World War II today, the RAF would not carpet-bomb Dresden, and the U.S. would not nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And, lacking the will to inflict massive, total defeat, would we also lack the will to inflict that top-to-toe “cleaning process”?

    Ah, well. Kabul is not Berlin or Tokyo. As long as wily mischief-makers are not using it as a base for global mayhem, who cares? To modify Bismarck, the Hindu Kush is not worth the bones of a single Pennsylvanian grenadier, or “training officer.” Afghanistan is about Afghanistan – if you’re Afghan or Pakistani. But, if you’re Russian or Chinese or Iranian or European, Afghanistan is about America. And too much about the Afghan campaign is too emblematic. As much as any bailed-out corporation, the U.S. is “too big to fail”: In Afghanistan as in the stimulus, it was money no object. The combined Western military/aid presence accounts for 98 percent of that benighted land’s GDP. We carpet-bomb with dollar bills; we have the most advanced technology known to man; we have everything except strategic purpose.

    That “crusader fort” image has a broader symbolism. The post-American world is arising before our eyes. According to the IMF, China will become the dominant economic power by 2016. Putin is on course to return to the Kremlin corner office. In Tehran, the mullahs nuclearize with impunity. New spheres of influence are being established in North Africa, in Central Europe, in the once-reliably “American lake” of the Pacific. Can America itself be a crusader fort? A fortress secure behind the interminable checkpoints of Code Orange TSA bureaucratic torpor while beyond the moat the mob jeers “Die, die, foreigners”? Or, in the end, will it prove as effortlessly penetrable as the “secure room” of the Afghan Interior Ministry?

    Replies: @Bel Riose, @Paperback Writer

    I liked this a lot.

    Well done.

    Your thoughts on feminism, please!

  150. @rebel yell
    @Adam Smith

    Note that in one of the pictures the Afghan female voter is holding up a Voter ID card. Hmmmm...perhaps we could require voter ID cards in the US and rise to Afghan standards.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @CJ

    Note that in one of the pictures the Afghan female voter is holding up a Voter ID card. Hmmmm…perhaps we could require voter ID cards in the US…

    Vaccine passports, too. And Illinois-style FOID cards. The electorate would soon be as white as 1960’s.

    On the other hand, consider how that electorate voted. Maybe it’s not a panacæa after all.

  151. @Paperback Writer
    @Buffalo Joe

    I saw a good Russian movie about Afghanistan:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_9th_Company

    Awesome scenes.

    Replies: @Hunsdon, @Joe Stalin

    No English Subtitles.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Joe Stalin

    I saw it on DVD & there were subtitles.

  152. This Atkins guy was bragging a week ago. That they really are that incompetent should always be the working hypothesis. We’ve seen nothing to contradict it.

  153. Stonewall Jackson [AKA "Joker"] says:

    This evening brought your prophecy closer to reality Sailer…. Biden’s mobilizing the special forces to get the rest of the US embassy out…

    What of all the soldiers of fortune and contractors? Does anyone know what the plan is for them? Wasn’t the plan to leave contractors there to ward of the Taliban?

    I am guessing there are a lot of them to evacuate…

    I see something about the Crash Test Dummy blaming Trump for this.

    How many wars can the Deep State lose and still be credible to the real opponents? I don’t agree with Fredericko Reedo much, but he’s right about taking on the Chinese with an armed forces that produces recruitment videos “Emma and Her Two Mommies”

  154. @John Pepple
    For me it was reading James Michener's Caravans, which I read as a freshman in college about 1970. Somewhere in that book it was declared that Iran was about 50 years ahead of Afghanistan in becoming a modern country. But then came 1979, and those 50 years all vanished as Muslims took over and brought them back to the stone age.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @WJ, @James Speaks, @Thea

    The CIA overthrew an elected Iranian government in 53 and installed a murderous, torturing tyrant for over 25 years. I would hope the American people would have the same reaction as the Iranians had in 79 if it had happened to us. It didn’t help that the next year that the USA encouraged Saddam to attack Iran and then later helped him build chemical weapons to kill even more Iranians. Despite all of that plus crushing sanctions, the Iranians have progressed well.

  155. @Corvinus
    @Desiderius

    Prince is a scum bag.

    https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/blackwater-founder-erik-prince-accused-in-us-district-court-of-intent-to-kill/

    https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/blackwater-founder-implicated-murder/

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/world/middleeast/erik-prince-libya-embargo.html

    https://www.forbes.com/return-of-erik-prince/#6e75bf7750aa



    When Prince pitched a plan to privatize the war in Afghanistan in 2017, the White House took him seriously. "He actually had the most cogent argument, much more than the guys who were 'stay the course,' " Trump's former chief strategist Steve Bannon tells Forbes.
     
    So give him Jewish money, and he and his murderous cabal will fight in Afghanistan for America. Would the plan once and for all remove the Taliban? The arrogance is wretched considering...

    In 2004 the State Department found itself ill-prepared to provide full security for the rapidly growing population of diplomats in Baghdad operating under the Coalition Provisional Authority. The State Department selected Blackwater that year to fill gaps in its Worldwide Protective Services Contract, with an initial award of $106 million, according to a State Department inspector general’s audit. By 2009, Blackwater had been paid more than $1.35 billion for security services in Iraq.

    Blackwater quickly became a symbol of what government watchdogs said was out-of-control war spending. Contractors were criticized for acting as if they were above Iraqi law. Blackwater convoys ran Iraqi civilian drivers off the roads and frequently used machine gun fire as a default warning when locals got too close. Their behavior angered and alienated the local population, even as some of the U.S. ground forces came to rely on Blackwater in gun battles where additional military assets could not respond.

    Then came Nisoor Square. On Sept. 16, 2007, after several previous hostile engagements that day, Blackwater contractors fired on a crowd of Iraqi civilians, killing 17. The Iraqi government ordered the security firm out of the country. The State Department ended Blackwater’s contract the next year. Some former employees involved in that shooting incident remain in jail, awaiting sentencing in the U.S courts.
     

    Replies: @Nathan, @WJ

    Cernovich believes that we should keep any little ole war going just for training? Idiot grifter loser bullshitter.

  156. Betcha Kabul will be in Taliban hands 24 hours from now.

  157. Lots of dumb boomer cucks are saying we have to let all the “good” Afghans come to America now.

    • Replies: @Hangnail Hans
    @ATBOTL

    Oh wow so I just had an idea! Let's bring all the "good" people from every country into the usa 🇺🇸 and then we'll have a country full of good people!

    http://icons.iconarchive.com/icons/google/noto-emoji-smileys/48/10082-smiling-face-with-halo-icon.png

    What's that? We're already doing this? Super!

    , @John Johnson
    @ATBOTL

    Lots of dumb boomer cucks are saying we have to let all the “good” Afghans come to America now.

    I'd happily support a trade.

    All the boomers that are entering retirement and yet still think that race doesn't matter (how????????) can be traded for Afghan refugees. I'd even go 10 to 1 for anyone in politics.

    , @Paperback Writer
    @ATBOTL


    Lots of dumb boomer cucks are saying we have to let all the “good” Afghans come to America now.

     

    Names, please. Most of the bring 'em here Afghan women are dying accounts I'm reading on Twitter are 40 and under and on the SJW left.

    David French is not a Boomer.

  158. @John Pepple
    For me it was reading James Michener's Caravans, which I read as a freshman in college about 1970. Somewhere in that book it was declared that Iran was about 50 years ahead of Afghanistan in becoming a modern country. But then came 1979, and those 50 years all vanished as Muslims took over and brought them back to the stone age.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @WJ, @James Speaks, @Thea

    But then came 1979, and those 50 years all vanished as Muslims took over and brought them back to the stone age.

    This explains, of course, why Iran is incapable of designing and building thousands upon thousands of rockets to keep the IDF at bay.

    • Replies: @John Pepple
    @James Speaks

    Ok, I was exaggerating, but I wasn't referring to technology. Rather, I was referring to all the moronic religious rules that were suddenly imposed on people, mostly on women.

  159. @Adam Smith
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Assuming the official story, what was our business after the fact?
     
    We must secure the existence of schools for Afghan girls so they can learn to read...

    https://static.dw.com/image/55614030_303.jpg

    And a future for Their Democracy™ in Afghanistan...

    https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/v1492200417/articles/2014/04/07/would-you-risk-your-life-to-vote-it-looks-like-7-million-afghans-did/140406-afghan-elections-tease_feegj9.jpg

    I mean,

    We must secure the existence of Poppies in the fields so we can supply the raw materials to produce the opium and fentanyl so our benevolent overlords can wage Opium War 3.0 against Americans here at home.

    https://publicintelligence.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/USopium7.png

    Umm, what I really mean is,

    Thar's rare earth minerals in them thar hills.

    https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/104659264-RTXV5TL-afghanistan.jpg

    Besides, the $2Trillion spent in Afghanistan over the last 20 years is good for the economy. (Surely you love the economy?) Think of all those missiles, bombs, guns, ammo, humvees, tanks, helicopters, fighter jets, the fuel to power them, etc. and all the wonderful jobs this wise policy provided.

    https://www.953mnc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/military-humvees.jpg

    Think about all that glorious GDPee.
    So much GDPee.

    Replies: @rebel yell, @Anonymous Jew, @Achmed E. Newman

    Thanks, Adam. Rebel Yell stole my line on this one. Could they send over election monitors in ’24, please?

    • Agree: Adam Smith
  160. @Oscar Peterson
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The Man Who Would Be King is a great movie.

    I always remember Michael Caine trying to teach British military drill to the locals:

    "Not after the others! Not before the others! With the bloody others!"

    Replies: @John Henry, @Achmed E. Newman

    Thanks for the additional recommendation, Mr. Peterson. It is on the way.

  161. I went in before BIG ARMY got there–May 2002. I was with 3rd Special Forces Group, and we didn’t know what we were doing.

    We used to just bumble around in technicals (pick-up trucks with machine guns on the back) asking if anybody had seen Bid Laden.

    We were all proud, and ready to kill, but Afghanistan is just this enormous waste land dotted with “tiny” villages of 20,000 people (in about eight houses). They all smoked pot and grew opium, and the richer men screwed 12 year old boys.

    It was like being on Mars.

    Round about 2012, when the war was eleven years old, I realized we would never win, and that we really were not trying to.

    About five years ago a friend and I were at Arlington National Cemetary on Memorial Day. We went to the grave of John F. Kennedy–you know, the Eternal Flame grave.

    My buddy says to me, “You know, they’re planning a momument for the Afghani and Iraqi wars.”

    “Really,” I said. “What’s it gonna be?”

    “Well, a lot like this one, ya know. An eternal flame.”

    “Okay.”

    “But above the eternal flame, there will be this bronze statue of a dumptruck.”

    “Huh?”

    “Yeah, and the dumptruck is going to just endlessly unload dollar bills into this eternal flame.”

    Three days later I had to go to Walter Reed Hospital, where I got into the elevator with a Special Forces captain who had had both his legs blown off. The guy was walkning around on his prostecticts, and was super buff. He was showing me the scars on his arms and was ‘super pumped’ about being alive. He was truly inspiring, never having a single negative thought. But after I left him, I realized that he had to be that way otherwise he’d kill himself.

    I then thought about the 1st lieutenant I’d met in the PX at FT Belvoir, with a hook for his right hand, and the SF sergeant I’d run into at the post office with a prostetic left leg. And they were all almost fanatically cheerful, like their whole lives depended on them being up beat. I realized that it must be exhausting.

    We could have been out of Afghanistan in three months. We had no reason to be in Iraq.

    We are a lost and confused people, determined to injure ourselves. And the rest of the world is looking on with a mixture of shock and anticipation.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Tim

    I have to hand it to you, you write great fiction.

  162. @Joe Stalin
    @Paperback Writer

    No English Subtitles.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1I73nhdHrE

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    I saw it on DVD & there were subtitles.

  163. there’s a lot of over-the-top handwringing about how terrible this is for women’s rights – for instance the Daily Mail right now has an article headlined ‘Joe Biden’s decision to withdraw all US troops from Afghanistan is the single most anti-women act a leader can commit’
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9894361/SARAH-VINE-Bidens-troop-withdrawal-anti-women-act-leader-commit.html

    the rash of such shrill articles appearing over the last few days is a good example of the media’s message coordination (used to particularly devastating effect during the George Floyd brouhaha), like Steve has hinted at before it’d be good to know in more detail how these kinds of campaigns are organised.

    • Replies: @Old Prude
    @Inselaffen

    Maybe this "most anti-woman thing ever" can be stopped if all the "you go girls" we see on the screen go over and kick-ass. Come on ladies, stand up for your sisters and quit asking the men to bail you out.

  164. OT. Steve missed this gem because it doesn’t fit in with his Kenyan superiority complex.

  165. @Charlotte
    @Almost Missouri

    One theory I’ve read is that the US wanted Afghanistan as a client state for its strategic position vis a vis Russia and China. This makes a certain amount of sense to me. However, I’m not ruling out the power of incredible ignorance/arrogance in keeping us there for twenty years, either.

    Why so many elite thinkers managed to convince themselves that very old, very alien cultures would welcome our attempts to remake them in the image of modern America will always baffle me. Honestly, when I see what we’ve made of our own culture, I have difficulty imagining why anyone would want to imitate our way of life. That’s the rub-you can’t really have democracy without a regard for individual importance and autonomy that diminishes the importance of family, clan, and religious leadership. Our attempts to export it can be viewed, not wrongly, as an attack on the proper ordering of (their) society.

    Replies: @Prof. Woland, @Paperback Writer

    One theory I’ve read is that the US wanted Afghanistan as a client state for its strategic position vis a vis Russia and China. This makes a certain amount of sense to me. However, I’m not ruling out the power of incredible ignorance/arrogance in keeping us there for twenty years, either.

    Makes sense to me, too. Here’s the problem. Our toxic elites think you can’t “sell” a perfectly rational mission without slathering a bunch of Yankee-doodle crap on it. That used to mean vague bromides about “freedom n democracy.” Now it means women’s rights, gay rights, etc. That, plus some of our toxic elites actually believe their own bullshit.

    Most people get the truth. They understand the power game a bit better than the toxic elites. But elites run the show.

    And Joe sounds very based here:

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    @Paperback Writer

    Aside from the catastrophe of Wokeness directed squarely at White males after massive defeat in Afghanistan, the massive defeat is going to invite lots of Chinese and Russian aggression.

    China is almost certainly going to invade and conquer Taiwan, the only question is will they also take Hawaii (this can be done)*. And Russia might just invade and retake Alaska and part of the Pacific Northwest.

    The US looks weak, will be at war against its White population at home (inevitably after disaster in Afghanistan) and will invite attack.

    Taiwan will be relatively straightforward for China. They can tolerate casualties, which will be heavy, since they have nearly unlimited manpower. Likely an airborne invasion coupled with just running container ships ashore to create harbor breaks. It will not be an easy cakewalk but it can be done.

    *Hawaii would likely require Taiwan like first strike missiles, coupled with airborne assaults and container ship troop ships along with nukes pointed at the US and the willingness to use them tactically. Recent war games showed the Pacific Fleet basically all sunk within 72 hours and the Chinese owning the Pacific all the way to California. Biden is weak, senile, and his Regency run by weirdos, trannies, women, and homosexuals. None of that does anything but invite attack.

    America is like a Target in a black neighborhood when the Police are defunded. Looted by everyone around. The police just got disbanded.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Thea

    , @Desiderius
    @Paperback Writer

    That vid was from July 2020.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

  166. @Nathan
    @Corvinus

    Oh, wow, get a load of Johnny Uninformed here. Do you know how corrupt the prosecution of those guards was? So corrupt that their conviction was tossed by a federal judge in 2009.

    Here, do some reading:

    https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/crime/2020/12/23/donald-trump-pardons-maryville-veteran-former-blackwater-contractor-dustin-heard/4023707001/

    https://www.mcall.com/sdut-lawyers-government-misconduct-in-blackwater-case-2009nov26-story.html

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704065404574636170633783890

    https://youtu.be/hRAcUnh4LpQ

    Please. Please. Never set foot in a voting booth again. The fact that such ignorant people have the franchise is absurd.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Do you know how corrupt the prosecution of those guards was?”

    The group was convicted in a court of law. Of course the defense lawyers had claimed prosecutorial misconduct and corruption. Leave it to Trump to pardon a convicted war criminal.

    “Oh, wow, get a load of Johnny Uninformed here.”

    Barnes makes unsupported after unsupported allegations. Educate yourself rather than be duped.

    https://scholarship.law.gwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1075&context=faculty_publications

    Blackwater were modern-day Hessians gone berserk. This group had a broad mandate in their charge to protect civilians. That the mercenaries had been specifically exempted from the standard rules of engagement, and the company was supposedly granted immunity from any prosecution for crimes committed provided them with a God-like mentality. The GWBush Administration permitted Blackwater (and Halliburton) to conduct their business in secret and even managed to haggle his GOP allies to vote down an anti-war profteering bill. Face the fact it was all about the dollars–Rumsfeld and Cheney worked to ensure their companies would immensely profit without consequences.

    You’re out of your league here.

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Corvinus


    Face the fact it was all about the dollars...
     
    As was Bush's lie about Islam having any connection to peace?

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Nathan
    @Corvinus

    Wow, real smooth-brain take posting a law review article that's only a book review, and after posting NYT, Forbes, and the Nation (super credible stuff). What a joke. Did it ever occur to you that I posted a *local* news source because local media (at least at the time of publishing) were less likely to follow a national political narrative and to actually interview the subjects? No? Of course not, you would have had to actually read the articles. Which you didn't. Typical of the Unz Review mental bottom dweller. You took the bait of the YouTube video and responded to it instead of the articles and then made your own equally unsupported claims. Pathetic.

    Anyway, for the non-smooth-brains reading this, here's only a small excerpt of the many years of absolutely *egregious* prosecutorial misconduct the Obama administration engaged in relating to the five Blackwater contractors:

    "United States v. Slough, et al. (D.D.C.) (Blackwater Worldwide)12: In December 2009, U.S. District Court Judge Ricardo Urbina dismissed all of the charges against the five Blackwater Worldwide security guards who were accused of killing unarmed Iraqi citizens in a crowded downtown Baghdad traffic circle in 2007. In a scathing 90-page opinion, Judge Urbina found that the government repeatedly violated the defendants’ constitutional rights by using their statements to State Department investigators after the shooting, which were made under the threat of job loss, as well as evidence derived from those statements, in its investigation and prosecution. In Garrity v. New Jersey,13 the Supreme Court held that statements made under threat of job loss, as well as evidence derived from such statements, cannot be used in any subsequent criminal prosecution. Judge Urbina determined that not only did the government use such statements, but the prosecution, its investigators, and key witnesses, in some cases, aggressively sought out those statements. Moreover, the government also inexplicably ignored repeated warnings from a senior Department official against the use of the defendants’ statements.

    Specifically, Judge Urbina concluded that, in the days following the defendants’ meetings with the State Department’s investigators, the defendants’ statements were leaked to the media and disseminated all over the world. As a result of the leak, the government’s key witnesses were exposed to the defendants’ statements, which in part formed the basis for their grand jury testimony that resulted in the indictment. In addition, the government also interviewed the State Department investigators who interviewed the defendants—specifically asking questions about the defendants’ statements—and then used that information to obtain search warrants. Moreover, the government also used those statements in its plea negotiations and charging decisions.

    Judge Urbina concluded that the government’s explanations for its outrageous conduct “were all too often contradictory, unbelievable, and lacking in credibility.” As a result, Judge Urbina dismissed all of the charges with prejudice"

    Dismissed by the Ninth Circuit. With prejudice. Oh, but you thought you couldn't be twice put in jeopardy of life and limb? What a joke. Trump did the right thing with this pardon, and the pardon of Eddie Gallagher, and many others.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  167. @Desiderius
    @Henry Canaday

    That’s nice. Maybe turn your attention to the assholes looting trillions from the public fisc if you’d like to retain your small presences in the future.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Reg Cæsar

    That’s nice. Maybe turn your attention to the 🦓🕳️🕳️ looting trillions from the public 👜 if you’d like to retain your small presences in the future.

    That’s a harsh way of referring to your grandmother’s Social Security check. (And I supported Goldwater as a child.)

  168. @Corvinus
    @Nathan

    "Do you know how corrupt the prosecution of those guards was?"

    The group was convicted in a court of law. Of course the defense lawyers had claimed prosecutorial misconduct and corruption. Leave it to Trump to pardon a convicted war criminal.

    "Oh, wow, get a load of Johnny Uninformed here."

    Barnes makes unsupported after unsupported allegations. Educate yourself rather than be duped.

    https://scholarship.law.gwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1075&context=faculty_publications

    Blackwater were modern-day Hessians gone berserk. This group had a broad mandate in their charge to protect civilians. That the mercenaries had been specifically exempted from the standard rules of engagement, and the company was supposedly granted immunity from any prosecution for crimes committed provided them with a God-like mentality. The GWBush Administration permitted Blackwater (and Halliburton) to conduct their business in secret and even managed to haggle his GOP allies to vote down an anti-war profteering bill. Face the fact it was all about the dollars--Rumsfeld and Cheney worked to ensure their companies would immensely profit without consequences.

    You're out of your league here.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Nathan

    Face the fact it was all about the dollars…

    As was Bush’s lie about Islam having any connection to peace?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Reg Cæsar

    "As was Bush’s lie about Islam having any connection to peace?"

    You, too, are off to lunch. The Quran upholds the sanctity of life by stating, “The killing of a person for reasons other than legal retaliation or for stopping corruption in the land is as great a sin as murdering all of humankind. However, to save a life would be as great a virtue as to save all of humankind.” (5:32).

    It's not the religion, it's the zealots who bastardize the faith. Turkish Islamic scholar Fethullah Gülen said the following on the day after Sept. 11, 2001, “Terrorism cannot be used to achieve any Islamic goal. No terrorist can be a Muslim, and no true Muslim can be a terrorist. Islam orders peace, and the Quran demands from each true Muslim that he or she be a symbol of peace and support the maintenance of basic human rights.”

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @James J O'Meara, @epebble, @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

  169. This situation is extremely dangerous. For us. Here at home. And it is because of what our elites believe as religious truth.

    ALL our elites, from Bill Gates, Clinton, Obama, Bush, the Regency, all of Wall Street, Hollywood, the military, the intel people, all of Congress, the media and universities believe in the dream. Of Lennon’s “Imagine,” a world without countries, borders, races, nations, ethnicity, unique religions outside wokeness, and with a global ruling elite from Davos running everything because they are possessed of superior moral and intellectual virtue because of their credentials.

    That was why nation building in Iraq and Afghanistan were attempted. Naturally both failed like Canute’s attempt to hold back the tide. The media is slamming Biden, from CNN to the FT which predictably slammed him for showing their idiot religious beliefs to be basically gutter voodoo if that.

    The “good” outcome is helicopters from the embassy and planes frantically departing from Kandahar Airport. That is not likely — the bad outcome is the 3,000 Marines are slaughtered as the Taliban using captured equipment destroy the runways of the airport and lay siege and quickly capture most of our people as Pakistan closes its airspace to US air support. Think Dien Bien Phu, only worse.

    This is very, very dangerous. For us. As the Regime in its fury will surely turn its focus on us. Having been defeated soundly and catastrophically, WE will be in the target sights of a fully woke and angry military brass. With no restrictive rules of engagement. Already the Biden DHS has issued guidelines that anyone questioning the Administration’s handling of Covid-19 is a Domestic Extremist and Terrorist. Not kidding, they really did that. The Regency is now going to issue national mask guidelines for kids in schools (they must all wear them vaccinated or not) and border controls manned by feds at State lines to stop people from traveling from state to state (Canada already does this). Excepting illegals of course. [Not kidding on that either]. The Regency can and will use Covid variants to institute a public health emergency in which all of the limits on it by the Constitution are extinguished. For good. Woke Gen Milley is all behind it, when he’s not reading “White Fragility.” So too is Congress, the Supremes, and the media.

    The failure of Steve and most of the commenters here is to ascribe neocon urgings to a small cabal of evil influencers, who if only Stalin knew, would be removed etc. That’s nonsense. ALL of our elites believe this because it flatters their moral sense and credentials, and their religious belief that history has meaning, is linear, and moves to some Universal Governing Body run by experts. I mean, you see this over and over and over again in literally most every entertainment piece since the end of the Cold War. The neocons pushed on an open door, that’s it. And the price paid for their faith, their gods, failing so spectacularly will be paid by us. Make no mistake about it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Whiskey


    The “good” outcome is helicopters from the embassy and planes frantically departing from Kandahar Airport. That is not likely — the bad outcome is the 3,000 Marines are slaughtered as the Taliban using captured equipment destroy the runways of the airport and lay siege and quickly capture most of our people as Pakistan closes its airspace to US air support. Think Dien Bien Phu, only worse.
     
    Anybody who has been reading Steve from the beginning knows that this is an airtight guarantee that there will be no such slaughter.

    Whiskey/Evil Neocon provides the best Fear Porn on isteve.

    Steve provides your daily dose of worry and frustration and then Whiskey comes in with the PCP laced gunpowder and guts prophecies.

    We ought to admit that we like it. (We do.) But I should warn the kiddies here not to fret or agree. Whiskey isn't real and exactly 100% of his predictions never came to pass.

    The only certainly in this life is that Whiskey is wrong.

    Replies: @JMcG

  170. @Mike Tre
    " He has picked out a local beauty called Roxanne"

    So actually, it was a damn woman who did him in.


    Seriously though, at an individual level, TMWWbK illustrates from an individual standpoint, the destructive hubris humans are capable of in approaching a great many related* subjects, nation building is just one of them. Believing humans have a noticeable effect upon global climate is hubris, humans believing we can "defeat" a virus is hubris. Safety departments in companies like mine believe they can eliminate workplace accidents. And what do all these examples require in order to be successful? Imposing an ever increasing amount of rules, restrictions and oppressive authority on populations.

    *Natural occurring things, and nature always wins.

    Regarding Afghanistan, in the end all that was required was a SF dropped in on OBL's location and that was it. We never needed thousands of regulars there and 100's of billions spent on this useless occupation. We got a lot of young white men killed and upended a country for what? So the military globohomo conglomerate could get rich.

    Replies: @Dnought

    Actually we might not have even needed to do that. Pay off the right people in the Taliban and six months later Bin Laden miraculously pops up in your hands.

  171. @Corvinus
    @Nathan

    "Do you know how corrupt the prosecution of those guards was?"

    The group was convicted in a court of law. Of course the defense lawyers had claimed prosecutorial misconduct and corruption. Leave it to Trump to pardon a convicted war criminal.

    "Oh, wow, get a load of Johnny Uninformed here."

    Barnes makes unsupported after unsupported allegations. Educate yourself rather than be duped.

    https://scholarship.law.gwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1075&context=faculty_publications

    Blackwater were modern-day Hessians gone berserk. This group had a broad mandate in their charge to protect civilians. That the mercenaries had been specifically exempted from the standard rules of engagement, and the company was supposedly granted immunity from any prosecution for crimes committed provided them with a God-like mentality. The GWBush Administration permitted Blackwater (and Halliburton) to conduct their business in secret and even managed to haggle his GOP allies to vote down an anti-war profteering bill. Face the fact it was all about the dollars--Rumsfeld and Cheney worked to ensure their companies would immensely profit without consequences.

    You're out of your league here.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Nathan

    Wow, real smooth-brain take posting a law review article that’s only a book review, and after posting NYT, Forbes, and the Nation (super credible stuff). What a joke. Did it ever occur to you that I posted a *local* news source because local media (at least at the time of publishing) were less likely to follow a national political narrative and to actually interview the subjects? No? Of course not, you would have had to actually read the articles. Which you didn’t. Typical of the Unz Review mental bottom dweller. You took the bait of the YouTube video and responded to it instead of the articles and then made your own equally unsupported claims. Pathetic.

    Anyway, for the non-smooth-brains reading this, here’s only a small excerpt of the many years of absolutely *egregious* prosecutorial misconduct the Obama administration engaged in relating to the five Blackwater contractors:

    “United States v. Slough, et al. (D.D.C.) (Blackwater Worldwide)12: In December 2009, U.S. District Court Judge Ricardo Urbina dismissed all of the charges against the five Blackwater Worldwide security guards who were accused of killing unarmed Iraqi citizens in a crowded downtown Baghdad traffic circle in 2007. In a scathing 90-page opinion, Judge Urbina found that the government repeatedly violated the defendants’ constitutional rights by using their statements to State Department investigators after the shooting, which were made under the threat of job loss, as well as evidence derived from those statements, in its investigation and prosecution. In Garrity v. New Jersey,13 the Supreme Court held that statements made under threat of job loss, as well as evidence derived from such statements, cannot be used in any subsequent criminal prosecution. Judge Urbina determined that not only did the government use such statements, but the prosecution, its investigators, and key witnesses, in some cases, aggressively sought out those statements. Moreover, the government also inexplicably ignored repeated warnings from a senior Department official against the use of the defendants’ statements.

    Specifically, Judge Urbina concluded that, in the days following the defendants’ meetings with the State Department’s investigators, the defendants’ statements were leaked to the media and disseminated all over the world. As a result of the leak, the government’s key witnesses were exposed to the defendants’ statements, which in part formed the basis for their grand jury testimony that resulted in the indictment. In addition, the government also interviewed the State Department investigators who interviewed the defendants—specifically asking questions about the defendants’ statements—and then used that information to obtain search warrants. Moreover, the government also used those statements in its plea negotiations and charging decisions.

    Judge Urbina concluded that the government’s explanations for its outrageous conduct “were all too often contradictory, unbelievable, and lacking in credibility.” As a result, Judge Urbina dismissed all of the charges with prejudice”

    Dismissed by the Ninth Circuit. With prejudice. Oh, but you thought you couldn’t be twice put in jeopardy of life and limb? What a joke. Trump did the right thing with this pardon, and the pardon of Eddie Gallagher, and many others.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Nathan

    "Wow, real smooth-brain take posting a law review article that’s only a book review..."

    The point being it discusses in-depth the inherent problems that arise when the federal government contracts military operations to private companies. You conveniently gloss over the murky legal status of such entities, as well as management, oversight, and accountability. Do you support Prince as Neo-Con?

    "and after posting NYT, Forbes, and the Nation (super credible stuff). What a joke".

    There is nothing funny about linking to sources that provide background and context into the activities of Blackwater. You have to demonstrate how and why these articles are other than credible, rather than simply label them in that manner. To the contrary, I read your links, and then supplied the requisite materials that shed light on Prince's machinations. Again, do you support Prince as a Neo-Con?

    "Did it ever occur to you that I posted a *local* news source because local media (at least at the time of publishing) were less likely to follow a national political narrative and to actually interview the subjects?"

    You do realize that the local news story had a national byline, right? And it is to be expected that there there would be media coverage of this event that incorporates quotations from defense lawyers for one of the defendants.

    "Anyway, for the non-smooth-brains reading this, here’s only a small excerpt of the many years of absolutely *egregious* prosecutorial misconduct the Obama administration engaged in relating to the five Blackwater contractors"

    Which was his legal opinion. That is why we have the appeals system, and a federal appeals court remanded the prosecution with instructions for Urbina to determine what evidence the government presented against each defendant was tainted and "in the case of any such presentation, whether in light of the entire record had shown it to have been harmless beyond a reasonable doubt". Urbina's blanket statement about the government's entire case was deemed as prejudicial on his part.Ultimately, the five were convicted.

  172. @Paperback Writer
    @Charlotte


    One theory I’ve read is that the US wanted Afghanistan as a client state for its strategic position vis a vis Russia and China. This makes a certain amount of sense to me. However, I’m not ruling out the power of incredible ignorance/arrogance in keeping us there for twenty years, either.
     
    Makes sense to me, too. Here's the problem. Our toxic elites think you can't "sell" a perfectly rational mission without slathering a bunch of Yankee-doodle crap on it. That used to mean vague bromides about "freedom n democracy." Now it means women's rights, gay rights, etc. That, plus some of our toxic elites actually believe their own bullshit.

    Most people get the truth. They understand the power game a bit better than the toxic elites. But elites run the show.

    And Joe sounds very based here:

    https://twitter.com/EuroHegemonist/status/1426457492452749313?s=20

    Replies: @Whiskey, @Desiderius

    Aside from the catastrophe of Wokeness directed squarely at White males after massive defeat in Afghanistan, the massive defeat is going to invite lots of Chinese and Russian aggression.

    China is almost certainly going to invade and conquer Taiwan, the only question is will they also take Hawaii (this can be done)*. And Russia might just invade and retake Alaska and part of the Pacific Northwest.

    The US looks weak, will be at war against its White population at home (inevitably after disaster in Afghanistan) and will invite attack.

    Taiwan will be relatively straightforward for China. They can tolerate casualties, which will be heavy, since they have nearly unlimited manpower. Likely an airborne invasion coupled with just running container ships ashore to create harbor breaks. It will not be an easy cakewalk but it can be done.

    *Hawaii would likely require Taiwan like first strike missiles, coupled with airborne assaults and container ship troop ships along with nukes pointed at the US and the willingness to use them tactically. Recent war games showed the Pacific Fleet basically all sunk within 72 hours and the Chinese owning the Pacific all the way to California. Biden is weak, senile, and his Regency run by weirdos, trannies, women, and homosexuals. None of that does anything but invite attack.

    America is like a Target in a black neighborhood when the Police are defunded. Looted by everyone around. The police just got disbanded.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Whiskey

    "Russia might just invade and retake Alaska and part of the Pacific Northwest."

    Is anyone offering odds on this? I think it's very unlikely.

    Why should Russia or China harpoon a whale that's mortally ill? That's how you get your boat smashed in the death-throes.

    All they have to do is wait.

    I've been saying this for ten years, and China is a lot stronger now than she was then.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @Thea
    @Whiskey


    Russia might just invade and retake Alaska and part of the Pacific Northwest.
     
    One can hope

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  173. @Paperback Writer
    @Charlotte


    One theory I’ve read is that the US wanted Afghanistan as a client state for its strategic position vis a vis Russia and China. This makes a certain amount of sense to me. However, I’m not ruling out the power of incredible ignorance/arrogance in keeping us there for twenty years, either.
     
    Makes sense to me, too. Here's the problem. Our toxic elites think you can't "sell" a perfectly rational mission without slathering a bunch of Yankee-doodle crap on it. That used to mean vague bromides about "freedom n democracy." Now it means women's rights, gay rights, etc. That, plus some of our toxic elites actually believe their own bullshit.

    Most people get the truth. They understand the power game a bit better than the toxic elites. But elites run the show.

    And Joe sounds very based here:

    https://twitter.com/EuroHegemonist/status/1426457492452749313?s=20

    Replies: @Whiskey, @Desiderius

    That vid was from July 2020.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Desiderius

    I think it was from 2010; it doesn't matter. He was based.

  174. There are arguments that the Americans created the present Taliban. From No good war among the living.

    Save for a few lone wolf attacks, US forces in Kandahar in 2002 faced no resistance at all. The terrorists had all decamped or abandoned the cause, yet US special forces were on Afghan soil with a clear political mandate: defeat terrorism. How do you fight a war without an adversary? Enter Gul Agha Sherzai —and men like him around the country. Eager to survive and prosper, he and his commanders followed the logic of the American presence to its obvious conclusion. They would create enemies where there were none, exploiting the perverse incentive mechanism that the Americans—without even realizing it—had put in place. Sherzai’s enemies became America’s enemies, his battles its battles. His personal feuds and jealousies were repackaged as “counterterrorism,” his business interests as Washington’s. And where rivalries did not do the trick, the prospect of further profits did. (One American leaflet dropped by plane in the area read: “Get Wealth and Power Beyond Your Dreams. Help Anti-Taliban Forces Rid Afghanistan of Murderers and Terrorists.”)

  175. @Hunsdon
    @Paperback Writer

    True fact.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I saw a good Russian movie about Afghanistan… I saw it on DVD…

    True fact.

    Was it a free gift?

    Was the country completely destroyed?

    Okay, I’ll cease and desist. Back to our regular routine.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Reg Cæsar

    If'n you got Amazon prime it's free w/ads AND subtitles.

    Awesome movie.

    Replies: @Kjr

  176. Exact same thing they’re doing on the home front.

    • Agree: JMcG
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Desiderius


    Jen Brick Murtazashvili
     
    I'm sure the professor's Georgian in-laws taught her a few things about realpolitik in that part of the world. They probably call her Jnfrbrik. In one syllable.

    Perhaps we can arrange for an Afghan hat trick. Persuade the Chinese to invade through the Wachan Corridor, and let them be distracted for a decade or two. Don't forget to turn your watch back three and a half hours at the border, comrade. And your calendar three and a half centuries.

  177. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/jmurtazashvili/status/1426709334738800641?s=20

    Exact same thing they’re doing on the home front.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Jen Brick Murtazashvili

    I’m sure the professor’s Georgian in-laws taught her a few things about realpolitik in that part of the world. They probably call her Jnfrbrik. In one syllable.

    Perhaps we can arrange for an Afghan hat trick. Persuade the Chinese to invade through the Wachan Corridor, and let them be distracted for a decade or two. Don’t forget to turn your watch back three and a half hours at the border, comrade. And your calendar three and a half centuries.

  178. @Anonymous Jew
    @Adam Smith

    Most people (not here) don’t see the obvious flaw in the military-spending-economy argument. When I buy a Honda Accord, it’s only because I value the car more than the $22,000 I spend on it. Likewise, Honda values the $22,000 more than the car. As a result both parties are better off and wealth is created (the wealth being the spread between the car’s price and the value I receive plus Honda’s spread - ie their profit). When the government takes my $22,000 to buy a tank, I’m not better off; I’m still out $22,000 but now with zero benefit. And it’s impossible for the tank manufacturer to make a 100% profit to offset my loss. As a result, wealth is lost (and transferred), but not created.

    Which reminds me of the most clever question from my Econ 101 professor: on what day is the most wealth lost?*

    (*Christmas Day: if the $30 sweater you gave me was worth more than $30 to me I would have already bought it).

    *Next best Econ 101 question: can you put a monetary price on an individuals life? But that question is more appropriate for Steve’s next post about Coronavirus policy.

    Replies: @Polistra, @rebel yell

    Also there’s the little matter of the fact that most of the trillions “invested” in war matériel tends to get blown up.

  179. By the end of 2002, the twisted skein of alliances and betrayals had become impossible to disentangle. Take the case of Commander Parre, an anti-Taliban militiaman who controlled a checkpoint at a mountain pass near Zurmat. Parre cooperated with the Americans but ran afoul of Police Chief Abdullah Mujahed (the official who had stolen \$3,000 from Zurmat shopkeepers) and other government figures. In short order, he was tricked into having tea with members of the Alabama National Guard’s Twentieth Special Forces Group, who arrested him along with his entire unit. At a nondescript US-run prison, Parre was forced to kneel on stones until he lost all sensation in his legs. At one point, his toenail was ripped off by an interrogator. He and the others were kicked, whipped with cables, and hosed with water. After a week, Parre’s younger brother Jamal Nasir could barely walk. On a cold spring morning, complaining of intense abdominal pain, he asked to go to the bathroom. As two others supported him, Nasir’s body suddenly went limp, and soon afterward his heart stopped. He had been tortured to death. After two weeks of abuse, Parre and the others were dropped off at one of Mujahed’s prisons. The police chief had consigned many a soul to American abuse, but the sight of those battered, near-death captives was too much even for him, and he petitioned for their release. In the eyes of the US special forces this constituted a grave betrayal, and a relationship that had already been souring took a dangerous turn. Almost overnight he was recast in the role of a man with questionable loyalties, a government official soft on terrorism. In a meeting attended by Mujahed and UN officials, an American officer threatened to kill him if he sided with those “opposing the Coalition.”

  180. If you were unfortunate enough to get caught up in this universe of rivalry and intrigue and then fall into American hands, you would first find yourself at one of a series of small US military outposts deep in the countryside, known as Field Detention Sites. Interrogators there typically would have a limited grasp of Afghan politics, and intelligence would be
    poorly shared, so epic confusions usually ensued. The unit apprehending you might have a relationship with one strongman, for instance, while you worked for another strongman tied to a different wing of the US military or the CIA. In this way, hundreds of Afghans working for pro-American commanders wound up ensnared by one of the Coalition’s many tentacles. And once branded as a terrorist, no amount of evidence or good sense could save you. From the Field Detention Site, you would be shipped to one of the main prisons at either Bagram or Kandahar Airfield. You would then be questioned by a new set of interrogators, who made little attempt to reconcile existing intelligence with any fresh information that they obtained. Your journey would likely end here, locked away for months or even years—unless you were one among the two hundred Afghans destined for Guantanamo. There you would be assessed by officials ever farther removed from the battlefield, with even foggier knowledge of the country’s politics. A result of this cascade of bureaucratic inefficiencies was that only a handful of Guantanamo’s Afghan inmates would turn out to be Taliban members of any import. Reading the official list of charges against the rest gives a sense of the farce the system had become. One inmate was accused, among other crimes, of supporting the political organization of Ahmed Shah Massoud, the pro-Western Northern Alliance leader murdered by al-Qaeda. Another was alleged to have been a member of Herakat-i-Inqilabi—an anti-Soviet mujahedeen group, backed by the United States, that had been defunct since the mid-1990s.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @AKAHorace

    Don't worry we have that here now. They just have to accuse you of being part of the Jan 6 "coup".

  181. One thing that should be sobering, Vietnam vs Afghanistan, is that North Vietnam always enjoyed overt military aid from (at various times) China and/or the USSR. Whereas the Taliban seem to be more self-sufficient.

    Otoh South Vietnam lasted a couple of years without US troops on the ground while Afghanistan, not so much.

  182. @Anonymous Jew
    @Adam Smith

    Most people (not here) don’t see the obvious flaw in the military-spending-economy argument. When I buy a Honda Accord, it’s only because I value the car more than the $22,000 I spend on it. Likewise, Honda values the $22,000 more than the car. As a result both parties are better off and wealth is created (the wealth being the spread between the car’s price and the value I receive plus Honda’s spread - ie their profit). When the government takes my $22,000 to buy a tank, I’m not better off; I’m still out $22,000 but now with zero benefit. And it’s impossible for the tank manufacturer to make a 100% profit to offset my loss. As a result, wealth is lost (and transferred), but not created.

    Which reminds me of the most clever question from my Econ 101 professor: on what day is the most wealth lost?*

    (*Christmas Day: if the $30 sweater you gave me was worth more than $30 to me I would have already bought it).

    *Next best Econ 101 question: can you put a monetary price on an individuals life? But that question is more appropriate for Steve’s next post about Coronavirus policy.

    Replies: @Polistra, @rebel yell

    *Next best Econ 101 question: can you put a monetary price on an individuals life?

    Well that’s a fun question even if it’s not answerable.
    The monetary value I put on my son’s life is all the dollars I can get my hands on, and millions more if I could get it to pay forward to his children and grandchildren.
    I’ve read that you can buy happiness up to about \$200K per year (salaries below this result in families reporting more stress and problems). Bill Gates and his type don’t report being more happy than people who make \$200k per year, so that appears to be the limit. So if \$200K per year buys as much happiness as money can buy, we could call that the value of a human life.
    If I were King and deciding whether to spend pubic money on super expensive medical care for one patient or lots of penicillin shots for others, I would count the years saved in each option, which would favor the many, and personally meet the dying patient, which would weigh in his favor, and consult many experts and pray to the Lord and make the best decision I could and in the end would put a monetary price on an individual’s life. But I would not swear by it.

  183. Bring me the head of Victor Davis Hanson.

  184. @AKAHorace

    If you were unfortunate enough to get caught up in this universe of rivalry and intrigue and then fall into American hands, you would first find yourself at one of a series of small US military outposts deep in the countryside, known as Field Detention Sites. Interrogators there typically would have a limited grasp of Afghan politics, and intelligence would be
    poorly shared, so epic confusions usually ensued. The unit apprehending you might have a relationship with one strongman, for instance, while you worked for another strongman tied to a different wing of the US military or the CIA. In this way, hundreds of Afghans working for pro-American commanders wound up ensnared by one of the Coalition’s many tentacles. And once branded as a terrorist, no amount of evidence or good sense could save you. From the Field Detention Site, you would be shipped to one of the main prisons at either Bagram or Kandahar Airfield. You would then be questioned by a new set of interrogators, who made little attempt to reconcile existing intelligence with any fresh information that they obtained. Your journey would likely end here, locked away for months or even years—unless you were one among the two hundred Afghans destined for Guantanamo. There you would be assessed by officials ever farther removed from the battlefield, with even foggier knowledge of the country’s politics. A result of this cascade of bureaucratic inefficiencies was that only a handful of Guantanamo’s Afghan inmates would turn out to be Taliban members of any import. Reading the official list of charges against the rest gives a sense of the farce the system had become. One inmate was accused, among other crimes, of supporting the political organization of Ahmed Shah Massoud, the pro-Western Northern Alliance leader murdered by al-Qaeda. Another was alleged to have been a member of Herakat-i-Inqilabi—an anti-Soviet mujahedeen group, backed by the United States, that had been defunct since the mid-1990s.
     

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    Don’t worry we have that here now. They just have to accuse you of being part of the Jan 6 “coup”.

  185. @J.Ross
    IT'S PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
    Just kidding, seed oils are of course haram.
    https://twitter.com/haqmal/status/1425502397627990017?s=21

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Kjr, @YetAnotherAnon

    Thank you for this. I’m not much for worrying about the geopolitics of Pathanistan but watching a happy man dance like an imbecile is a good time.

    I wish we had more of these videos and fewer moralistic demands that we mourn something or other.

    So long as nobody is being tortured in the background, I would like to see as many happily dancing Afghans as possible.

    Any suggestions for me?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Kjr

    I was under the impression they weren't allowed to dance so no. But yes this man is liberating his country and guaranteeing the traditions of his fathers, he truly knows joy. The fact that our traditions are very different is totally irrelevant. There's this but it's probably depressing:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHPrU7R8L2Y

    Replies: @Anon7

  186. @Paperback Writer
    I have an honest question:

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Serious answers only.

    Thanks.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @donut, @J.Ross, @anon, @Che Blutarsky, @Prof. Woland, @fish, @John Johnson, @Midnights, @Mike_from_SGV

    Gas station vending machine condom?

    Nice boobs on a nun?

  187. Very dumb! A rout in Kabul by the Taliban means a blow to the image of US Military supremacy. Note that I used the word image, perception too. This diminishes US Dollar as the world’s foremost reserve currency. The Dollar sinks, price of imports goes up. Inflation rises. Interest rates go up making it v difficult for the Feds to borrow money, to finance the Feds yearly spending deficit.

    Such as there would be no 3.5 trillion dollar Biden-AOC-Pelosi-Bernie infrastructure (aka pay off Democrat cronies, employ Democrat loyalists, employ illegal aliens) bill. BTW Republicans tried to bar illegals from being employed, Dems blocked this.

    Afghan regime’s rout exposes crisis of US imperialism. Bill Van Auken. 9 August 2021 … Ongoing urban warfare has reduced the grip of the US-backed regime in Kabul to just some neighborhoods …

    The most f’ed imperialism ever! We got nothing out of it! Imperialists are supposed to plunder nations.

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    @Clyde

    I find your accelerationist rhetoric . . . tiresome.

  188. @Farenheit
    All over Afghanistan, there are men, about the same age as your average isteve commenter, sitting in their hovels, with their AK-47 leaned up in the corner of the room. These men have now put the two most powerful empires of the age to route.

    Just remember that the next time some leftest bellows that assault rifles shouldn't be protected by the 2nd amendment. We're on the wrong end of the stick, but that is exactly what is was written for.

    Replies: @Mike1, @Kjr

    I don’t understand this line of argument.

    Other than for that one family out in Nevada a few years ago, when has owning a rifle ever helped protect an American man or woman from wrongful imprisonment by the powers that be?

    In America, the land of the free and the home of the brave, where everyone is presumed innocent, 99 out of 100 people charged with a crime are convicted.

    And 1 out of every 3 men in America is handcuffed at least once in his life.

    And 1 out of every 60 men in America is in prison at this very moment.

    Unless you believe that Americans are the most jailworthy of peoples on the earth you’ve got to admit that there are an awful lot of normal people being shackled by their own government.

    Americans are not Afghanis.

    Americans do not fight.

    Americans swell with pride at putting in 50 hour work weeks and, when they aren’t working, they are sheltering in place and living their lives through a screen.

    Europeans have an excuse for being so wussified. After all, they have no guns.

    Americans have no excuse but the faint memory of puritan morals which requires that all evildoers be punished.

    And so, when its your turn to be punished you know well the psychology of your fellow citizen and submit to it as weakly as a lamb.

    The American second amendment was designed to protect the first.

    Yet when they came for the first amendment, closing the houses of worship, muzzling the populace, censoring the free press, and making peaceful assembly illegal did the right to bear arms help safeguard your rights?

    No.

    Because our government OF the people, BY the people, and FOR the people – so help me God – loved the mask.

    Oh yes we did.

    So too when it comes to supporting “our boys in blue”, our courts, our prosecutors, our prisons — if our guns are for anything it is to protect those fine puboic servants from the rowdy proles.

    If Winston Smith is looking wistfully out of his window at the Dominican washer woman singing with abandon in Washington Heights it is with a prayer in his heart that the aurhorities come for her quickly.

    The one thing that all Americans agree upon is their burning desire for Law and Order. They only disagree about which people to use it against.

    Free playfulness with the acceptance of all of the risks that entails is anathema to a people who truly believe that their little ones will live forever, save they fall from uncushioned monkeybars or be spoken to by an unauthorized adult.

    And the solution we found is to allow our youth to go abroad, while still in their teens, to wreak amoral havoc upon strangers so that they can come home afterwards to the news that they are heroes and to a lifetime PTSD Pension.

    Americans who speak with pride about their right to publish what they will, to ark as they will, to have a speedy trial, to be presumed innocent, to be secure in their persons and posessions are so cringeworthy they don’t even know their cringeworthy.

    Whose flag is that you’re waving? What have the stars and stripes done for you and yours?

    As Samuel told the Jews who begged him for a King and Government (I Samuel Chapter 8): “You will be its slave”.

    And still they demanded it.

    As do we.

    Whatever else one can say about the Afghanis of the less western sort, they do not boast of owning ornamental guns while their sons are shackled by the millions.

    As we do.

    As ours are.

    • Agree: Jonathan Mason
    • Replies: @Clyde
    @Kjr

    Lots of truths in what you posted! Thanks. You said it better than I.


    And the solution we found is to allow our youth to go abroad, while still in their teens, to wreak amoral havoc upon strangers so that they can come home afterwards to the news that they are heroes and to a lifetime PTSD Pension.
     
    Many earned their PTSD Pension but my guess is at least one third faked their way to it, now dishonestly set for a lifetime income. However modest. You can easily swing a house mortgage with your faked PTSD.
    , @InnerCynic
    @Kjr


    Yet when they came for the first amendment, closing the houses of worship, muzzling the populace, censoring the free press, and making peaceful assembly illegal did the right to bear arms help safeguard your rights?
     
    Bingo! Millions should be in the streets and marching on state capitols demanding that this end immediately. Religious "leaders" should be on the forefront.

    Where are they?.... Nowhere to be seen. But they're constantly lowing like cows for more "offerings" when it's their own parishioners they've sacrificed up to Baal
  189. @Reg Cæsar
    @Bill


    It’s the Democrats’ fault that Bush the Lesser invaded and tried to colonize Afghanistan.
     
    It's the Democrats' fault that he could say something as false as "Islam is a religion of peace" and actually believe it. He'd been swallowing their propaganda for forty years..

    Note, too their supremely cynical silence after he'd said it. Democrats know a lot more about race than they let on. (With 200 years of intimate experience with blacks, how could they not?)

    Replies: @Pericles

    Islam is a religion of peace and quick burials at sea.

  190. @Inselaffen
    there's a lot of over-the-top handwringing about how terrible this is for women's rights - for instance the Daily Mail right now has an article headlined 'Joe Biden's decision to withdraw all US troops from Afghanistan is the single most anti-women act a leader can commit'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9894361/SARAH-VINE-Bidens-troop-withdrawal-anti-women-act-leader-commit.html

    the rash of such shrill articles appearing over the last few days is a good example of the media's message coordination (used to particularly devastating effect during the George Floyd brouhaha), like Steve has hinted at before it'd be good to know in more detail how these kinds of campaigns are organised.

    Replies: @Old Prude

    Maybe this “most anti-woman thing ever” can be stopped if all the “you go girls” we see on the screen go over and kick-ass. Come on ladies, stand up for your sisters and quit asking the men to bail you out.

    • Agree: 68W58
  191. @Bill
    @Almost Missouri

    It's the Democrats' fault that Bush the Lesser invaded and tried to colonize Afghanistan. So, get to the polls and vote for the GOP. It's our only hope!

    Replies: @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @Marquis

    I didn’t think there was anyone here dense enough to not know that Bush is a modern day Democrat.

    • Replies: @Bill
    @Marquis

    Vote for the GOP! They've completely changed since W ran as an isolationist and governed as a warmongering lunatic!

  192. @Kjr
    @J.Ross

    Thank you for this. I'm not much for worrying about the geopolitics of Pathanistan but watching a happy man dance like an imbecile is a good time.

    I wish we had more of these videos and fewer moralistic demands that we mourn something or other.

    So long as nobody is being tortured in the background, I would like to see as many happily dancing Afghans as possible.

    Any suggestions for me?

    Replies: @J.Ross

    I was under the impression they weren’t allowed to dance so no. But yes this man is liberating his country and guaranteeing the traditions of his fathers, he truly knows joy. The fact that our traditions are very different is totally irrelevant. There’s this but it’s probably depressing:

    • Replies: @Anon7
    @J.Ross

    At 26:40 in the video Afghan men are shown making molds to make pots and pans. Molds are made out of packed sand; scrap metal is melted down and poured into the molds.

    So, I guess those Humvees and jets we left in country will not go to waste.

  193. @ATBOTL
    Lots of dumb boomer cucks are saying we have to let all the "good" Afghans come to America now.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @John Johnson, @Paperback Writer

    Oh wow so I just had an idea! Let’s bring all the “good” people from every country into the usa 🇺🇸 and then we’ll have a country full of good people!

    What’s that? We’re already doing this? Super!

    • LOL: JMcG
  194. Anonymous[409] • Disclaimer says:
    @Whiskey
    This situation is extremely dangerous. For us. Here at home. And it is because of what our elites believe as religious truth.

    ALL our elites, from Bill Gates, Clinton, Obama, Bush, the Regency, all of Wall Street, Hollywood, the military, the intel people, all of Congress, the media and universities believe in the dream. Of Lennon's "Imagine," a world without countries, borders, races, nations, ethnicity, unique religions outside wokeness, and with a global ruling elite from Davos running everything because they are possessed of superior moral and intellectual virtue because of their credentials.

    That was why nation building in Iraq and Afghanistan were attempted. Naturally both failed like Canute's attempt to hold back the tide. The media is slamming Biden, from CNN to the FT which predictably slammed him for showing their idiot religious beliefs to be basically gutter voodoo if that.

    The "good" outcome is helicopters from the embassy and planes frantically departing from Kandahar Airport. That is not likely -- the bad outcome is the 3,000 Marines are slaughtered as the Taliban using captured equipment destroy the runways of the airport and lay siege and quickly capture most of our people as Pakistan closes its airspace to US air support. Think Dien Bien Phu, only worse.

    This is very, very dangerous. For us. As the Regime in its fury will surely turn its focus on us. Having been defeated soundly and catastrophically, WE will be in the target sights of a fully woke and angry military brass. With no restrictive rules of engagement. Already the Biden DHS has issued guidelines that anyone questioning the Administration's handling of Covid-19 is a Domestic Extremist and Terrorist. Not kidding, they really did that. The Regency is now going to issue national mask guidelines for kids in schools (they must all wear them vaccinated or not) and border controls manned by feds at State lines to stop people from traveling from state to state (Canada already does this). Excepting illegals of course. [Not kidding on that either]. The Regency can and will use Covid variants to institute a public health emergency in which all of the limits on it by the Constitution are extinguished. For good. Woke Gen Milley is all behind it, when he's not reading "White Fragility." So too is Congress, the Supremes, and the media.

    The failure of Steve and most of the commenters here is to ascribe neocon urgings to a small cabal of evil influencers, who if only Stalin knew, would be removed etc. That's nonsense. ALL of our elites believe this because it flatters their moral sense and credentials, and their religious belief that history has meaning, is linear, and moves to some Universal Governing Body run by experts. I mean, you see this over and over and over again in literally most every entertainment piece since the end of the Cold War. The neocons pushed on an open door, that's it. And the price paid for their faith, their gods, failing so spectacularly will be paid by us. Make no mistake about it.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The “good” outcome is helicopters from the embassy and planes frantically departing from Kandahar Airport. That is not likely — the bad outcome is the 3,000 Marines are slaughtered as the Taliban using captured equipment destroy the runways of the airport and lay siege and quickly capture most of our people as Pakistan closes its airspace to US air support. Think Dien Bien Phu, only worse.

    Anybody who has been reading Steve from the beginning knows that this is an airtight guarantee that there will be no such slaughter.

    Whiskey/Evil Neocon provides the best Fear Porn on isteve.

    Steve provides your daily dose of worry and frustration and then Whiskey comes in with the PCP laced gunpowder and guts prophecies.

    We ought to admit that we like it. (We do.) But I should warn the kiddies here not to fret or agree. Whiskey isn’t real and exactly 100% of his predictions never came to pass.

    The only certainly in this life is that Whiskey is wrong.

    • Disagree: JMcG
    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Anonymous

    Who are you?

  195. My puritan autocorrect finally came through.

    Behold the motherducker!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/stillgray/status/1426660421050650627

  196. @Kjr
    @Farenheit

    I don't understand this line of argument.

    Other than for that one family out in Nevada a few years ago, when has owning a rifle ever helped protect an American man or woman from wrongful imprisonment by the powers that be?

    In America, the land of the free and the home of the brave, where everyone is presumed innocent, 99 out of 100 people charged with a crime are convicted.

    And 1 out of every 3 men in America is handcuffed at least once in his life.

    And 1 out of every 60 men in America is in prison at this very moment.

    Unless you believe that Americans are the most jailworthy of peoples on the earth you've got to admit that there are an awful lot of normal people being shackled by their own government.

    Americans are not Afghanis.

    Americans do not fight.

    Americans swell with pride at putting in 50 hour work weeks and, when they aren't working, they are sheltering in place and living their lives through a screen.

    Europeans have an excuse for being so wussified. After all, they have no guns.

    Americans have no excuse but the faint memory of puritan morals which requires that all evildoers be punished.

    And so, when its your turn to be punished you know well the psychology of your fellow citizen and submit to it as weakly as a lamb.

    The American second amendment was designed to protect the first.

    Yet when they came for the first amendment, closing the houses of worship, muzzling the populace, censoring the free press, and making peaceful assembly illegal did the right to bear arms help safeguard your rights?

    No.

    Because our government OF the people, BY the people, and FOR the people - so help me God - loved the mask.

    Oh yes we did.

    So too when it comes to supporting "our boys in blue", our courts, our prosecutors, our prisons -- if our guns are for anything it is to protect those fine puboic servants from the rowdy proles.

    If Winston Smith is looking wistfully out of his window at the Dominican washer woman singing with abandon in Washington Heights it is with a prayer in his heart that the aurhorities come for her quickly.


    The one thing that all Americans agree upon is their burning desire for Law and Order. They only disagree about which people to use it against.

    Free playfulness with the acceptance of all of the risks that entails is anathema to a people who truly believe that their little ones will live forever, save they fall from uncushioned monkeybars or be spoken to by an unauthorized adult.

    And the solution we found is to allow our youth to go abroad, while still in their teens, to wreak amoral havoc upon strangers so that they can come home afterwards to the news that they are heroes and to a lifetime PTSD Pension.

    Americans who speak with pride about their right to publish what they will, to ark as they will, to have a speedy trial, to be presumed innocent, to be secure in their persons and posessions are so cringeworthy they don't even know their cringeworthy.

    Whose flag is that you're waving? What have the stars and stripes done for you and yours?

    As Samuel told the Jews who begged him for a King and Government (I Samuel Chapter 8): "You will be its slave".

    And still they demanded it.

    As do we.

    Whatever else one can say about the Afghanis of the less western sort, they do not boast of owning ornamental guns while their sons are shackled by the millions.

    As we do.

    As ours are.

    Replies: @Clyde, @InnerCynic

    Lots of truths in what you posted! Thanks. You said it better than I.

    And the solution we found is to allow our youth to go abroad, while still in their teens, to wreak amoral havoc upon strangers so that they can come home afterwards to the news that they are heroes and to a lifetime PTSD Pension.

    Many earned their PTSD Pension but my guess is at least one third faked their way to it, now dishonestly set for a lifetime income. However modest. You can easily swing a house mortgage with your faked PTSD.

  197. @James Speaks
    @John Pepple


    But then came 1979, and those 50 years all vanished as Muslims took over and brought them back to the stone age.
     
    This explains, of course, why Iran is incapable of designing and building thousands upon thousands of rockets to keep the IDF at bay.

    Replies: @John Pepple

    Ok, I was exaggerating, but I wasn’t referring to technology. Rather, I was referring to all the moronic religious rules that were suddenly imposed on people, mostly on women.

  198. @Clyde
    Very dumb! A rout in Kabul by the Taliban means a blow to the image of US Military supremacy. Note that I used the word image, perception too. This diminishes US Dollar as the world's foremost reserve currency. The Dollar sinks, price of imports goes up. Inflation rises. Interest rates go up making it v difficult for the Feds to borrow money, to finance the Feds yearly spending deficit.

    Such as there would be no 3.5 trillion dollar Biden-AOC-Pelosi-Bernie infrastructure (aka pay off Democrat cronies, employ Democrat loyalists, employ illegal aliens) bill. BTW Republicans tried to bar illegals from being employed, Dems blocked this.

    Afghan regime’s rout exposes crisis of US imperialism. Bill Van Auken. 9 August 2021 ... Ongoing urban warfare has reduced the grip of the US-backed regime in Kabul to just some neighborhoods ...
     
    The most f'ed imperialism ever! We got nothing out of it! Imperialists are supposed to plunder nations.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind

    I find your accelerationist rhetoric . . . tiresome.

  199. The Taliban “do not wish to take revenge,” he said, adding that government and military workers would “be forgiven” and placed under the group’s protection.

    If they honor this it will be the biggest PR success in history. The Taliban as gracious victors should leave the US establishment in shame. But it won’t

    • Agree: Daniel H
  200. @SafeNow
    @Unit472

    “I worry that those 3,000 combat troops Biden is flying into Kabul to secure the airport so higher ranking US officials can get out could become POWs or hostages.”

    I suspect that the “pallets of cash” protocol is being renewed right now. If not actually delivering the pallets, quiet discussions are underway about pallets for “rebuilding” being delivered later if you are measured in your actions now. The only problem with this plan is that the Taliban are so disjointed that quiet discussions will not get the word out.

    Replies: @Greta Handel, @Unit472

    I’m sure Biden will try to pay off the Taliban, its how this corrupt POS rolls, but the Taliban is not a government and Biden has to negotiate with some bearded dude in Doha whose authority over Taliban forces in Kabul probably doesn’t exist so who does Biden send the pallet of cash to?

    Right now all that has to happen to leave Biden in a real mess is for a few Taliban to seize a long range howitzer and shell Hamid Karzai airports runway. A M-777 artillery piece can do this from over 20 miles away and the Taliban are probably already that close. If they get closer they can stop incoming and outgoing flights with nothing more than a mortar or even a few heavy machineguns or RPGs.

    Biden is putting the now 6000 man rescue force in a very dangerous position. The A-10’s and gunships American ground forces once had at their command are gone now. If the Taliban close that airport how are those US soldiers to be supplied and if the airport is closed what is the ‘mission’ of those soldiers?

    • Thanks: SafeNow
    • Replies: @Alden
    @Unit472

    So August 13 American troops fled Afghanistan. On August 16 Biden sent more American troops into Afghanistan. Doesn’t make sense to me but I don’t know anything about military planning and strategy.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

  201. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/QuasLacrimas/status/1426665256768704512?s=20

    Replies: @CCZ

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @CCZ

    If you read your Strauss and Howe you'll recognize that that look might just be as much generational and geographical. A lot of men domestically know better than to use that expression but a good many thinking it. They forecasted thirty years ago that we'd be at maximum gender differentiation at this point and a great many signs pointing that way. Only the oversized demographic and financial power of the Boomers has kept it underground.

  202. @Reg Cæsar
    @Corvinus


    Face the fact it was all about the dollars...
     
    As was Bush's lie about Islam having any connection to peace?

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “As was Bush’s lie about Islam having any connection to peace?”

    You, too, are off to lunch. The Quran upholds the sanctity of life by stating, “The killing of a person for reasons other than legal retaliation or for stopping corruption in the land is as great a sin as murdering all of humankind. However, to save a life would be as great a virtue as to save all of humankind.” (5:32).

    It’s not the religion, it’s the zealots who bastardize the faith. Turkish Islamic scholar Fethullah Gülen said the following on the day after Sept. 11, 2001, “Terrorism cannot be used to achieve any Islamic goal. No terrorist can be a Muslim, and no true Muslim can be a terrorist. Islam orders peace, and the Quran demands from each true Muslim that he or she be a symbol of peace and support the maintenance of basic human rights.”

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Corvinus


    It’s not the religion, it’s the zealots who bastardize the faith.
     
    To a Christian, all schools of Islam are equally valid. It's the number of adherents of each that would matter to us, and their reach. The violent ones, or at least the supporters thereof, make up a large chunk of the billion or so.

    You put yourself in the position of an imam lecturing us on why Calvin is wrong and the Pope right.


    https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1338109444.1801/flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg

    Replies: @Corvinus, @BB753

    , @James J O'Meara
    @Corvinus

    “The killing of a person for reasons other than legal retaliation or for stopping corruption in the land is as great a sin as murdering all of humankind."

    “stopping corruption in the land" is defined as "Death to the West."

    , @epebble
    @Corvinus

    I think you should read the Quran more fully.


    Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

    Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

    Quran (8:12) - "(Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels... "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

    Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

    Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

    Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"


     

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    @Corvinus

    Reg Caesar, In correcting Corvinus, you misquoted the Quran:
    "The Quran upholds the sanctity of life by stating, “The killing of a person for reasons other than legal retaliation or for stopping corruption in the land is as great a sin as murdering all of humankind. However, to save a life would be as great a virtue as to save all of humankind.” (5:32)."
    Take a look at
    https://legacy.quran.com/5/32-33
    and you will see that this is a doctrine that Allah gave to Jews, not to Muslims. Muslims follow the sterner death/crucifixion/double-amputation punishment prescribed in Quran 5:33.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  203. The speed with which the Taliban are apparently taking control suggests a charade that has been carefully orchestrated.

  204. Rory “The Great Betrayal” Stewart wrote in 2009 that Afghanistan was unwinnable.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/5797197/Afghanistan-a-war-we-cannot-win.html

    Sir John Lawrence, the new viceroy, persuaded Lord Derby’s government that Afghanistan was less important than it appeared, that our resources were limited, and that we had other more pressing priorities. Here, in a civil service minute of 1867, he imagines what would happen if the Russians tried to invade: “In that case let them undergo the long and tiresome marches which lie between the Oxus and the Indus; let them wend their way through poor and difficult countries, among a fanatic and courageous population, where, in many places, every mile can be converted into a defensible position; then they will come to the conflict on which the fate of India will depend, toil-worn, with an exhausted infantry, a broken-down cavalry, and a defective artillery.”

    He concludes: “I am firmly of opinion that our proper course is not to advance our troops beyond our present border, not to send English officers into the different states of Central Asia; but to put our own house in order …”

    Lawrence might have been expected to have a more confident or arrogant view of British power than policy-makers today. But he believed that the British government lacked power, lacked knowledge (even though he and his colleagues had spent decades on the Afghan frontier) and lacked legitimacy (“the Afghans do not want us; they dread our appearance in the country… will not tolerate foreign rule”).

    The argument is contingent, cautious, empirical and local, rooted in a very specific landscape and time. It expresses a belief not only in the limits of Russian and Afghan threats but also in the limits of British power and capacity.

    The new UK strategy for Afghanistan is described as: “International… regional… joint civilian-military… co-ordinated… long-term…focused on developing capacity… an approach that combines respect for sovereignty and local values with respect for international standards of democracy, legitimate and accountable government, and human rights; a hard-headed approach: setting clear and realistic objectives with clear metrics of success.”

    This is not a plan: it is a description of what we have not got. Why do we believe that describing what we do not have should constitute a plan on how to get it? In part, it is because the language is comfortingly opaque. A bewildering range of different logical connections and identities can be concealed in a specialised language derived from development theory and overlaid with management consultancy. What is concealed is our underlying assumption that when we want to make other societies resemble our (often fantastical) ideas of our own society, we can.

  205. @Nathan
    @Corvinus

    Wow, real smooth-brain take posting a law review article that's only a book review, and after posting NYT, Forbes, and the Nation (super credible stuff). What a joke. Did it ever occur to you that I posted a *local* news source because local media (at least at the time of publishing) were less likely to follow a national political narrative and to actually interview the subjects? No? Of course not, you would have had to actually read the articles. Which you didn't. Typical of the Unz Review mental bottom dweller. You took the bait of the YouTube video and responded to it instead of the articles and then made your own equally unsupported claims. Pathetic.

    Anyway, for the non-smooth-brains reading this, here's only a small excerpt of the many years of absolutely *egregious* prosecutorial misconduct the Obama administration engaged in relating to the five Blackwater contractors:

    "United States v. Slough, et al. (D.D.C.) (Blackwater Worldwide)12: In December 2009, U.S. District Court Judge Ricardo Urbina dismissed all of the charges against the five Blackwater Worldwide security guards who were accused of killing unarmed Iraqi citizens in a crowded downtown Baghdad traffic circle in 2007. In a scathing 90-page opinion, Judge Urbina found that the government repeatedly violated the defendants’ constitutional rights by using their statements to State Department investigators after the shooting, which were made under the threat of job loss, as well as evidence derived from those statements, in its investigation and prosecution. In Garrity v. New Jersey,13 the Supreme Court held that statements made under threat of job loss, as well as evidence derived from such statements, cannot be used in any subsequent criminal prosecution. Judge Urbina determined that not only did the government use such statements, but the prosecution, its investigators, and key witnesses, in some cases, aggressively sought out those statements. Moreover, the government also inexplicably ignored repeated warnings from a senior Department official against the use of the defendants’ statements.

    Specifically, Judge Urbina concluded that, in the days following the defendants’ meetings with the State Department’s investigators, the defendants’ statements were leaked to the media and disseminated all over the world. As a result of the leak, the government’s key witnesses were exposed to the defendants’ statements, which in part formed the basis for their grand jury testimony that resulted in the indictment. In addition, the government also interviewed the State Department investigators who interviewed the defendants—specifically asking questions about the defendants’ statements—and then used that information to obtain search warrants. Moreover, the government also used those statements in its plea negotiations and charging decisions.

    Judge Urbina concluded that the government’s explanations for its outrageous conduct “were all too often contradictory, unbelievable, and lacking in credibility.” As a result, Judge Urbina dismissed all of the charges with prejudice"

    Dismissed by the Ninth Circuit. With prejudice. Oh, but you thought you couldn't be twice put in jeopardy of life and limb? What a joke. Trump did the right thing with this pardon, and the pardon of Eddie Gallagher, and many others.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Wow, real smooth-brain take posting a law review article that’s only a book review…”

    The point being it discusses in-depth the inherent problems that arise when the federal government contracts military operations to private companies. You conveniently gloss over the murky legal status of such entities, as well as management, oversight, and accountability. Do you support Prince as Neo-Con?

    “and after posting NYT, Forbes, and the Nation (super credible stuff). What a joke”.

    There is nothing funny about linking to sources that provide background and context into the activities of Blackwater. You have to demonstrate how and why these articles are other than credible, rather than simply label them in that manner. To the contrary, I read your links, and then supplied the requisite materials that shed light on Prince’s machinations. Again, do you support Prince as a Neo-Con?

    “Did it ever occur to you that I posted a *local* news source because local media (at least at the time of publishing) were less likely to follow a national political narrative and to actually interview the subjects?”

    You do realize that the local news story had a national byline, right? And it is to be expected that there there would be media coverage of this event that incorporates quotations from defense lawyers for one of the defendants.

    “Anyway, for the non-smooth-brains reading this, here’s only a small excerpt of the many years of absolutely *egregious* prosecutorial misconduct the Obama administration engaged in relating to the five Blackwater contractors”

    Which was his legal opinion. That is why we have the appeals system, and a federal appeals court remanded the prosecution with instructions for Urbina to determine what evidence the government presented against each defendant was tainted and “in the case of any such presentation, whether in light of the entire record had shown it to have been harmless beyond a reasonable doubt”. Urbina’s blanket statement about the government’s entire case was deemed as prejudicial on his part.Ultimately, the five were convicted.

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
  206. Long after the USA is long dead, the Taliban will still rule over Afghanistan and its poppy fields.

  207. “The Man who would be King” is my favorite Sean Connery movie and such a great Kipling, John Huston work of art.

    This movie always looked and sounded so sensible to me.

    But with Americans it was always:

    Rambo III

    American patriotard Johnny Rambo goes off to Afghanistan to fight the evil racist Russians and doing these proud mountain Muslim freedom fighters – Ronald Reagan invited them to the White House.

    I was about 15 when this Rambo III movie came out and I immediately dismissed it as the same as WWF fake wrestling.

    Who could believe such BS?

    Apparently Reagan Bush Boomers could, did and do believe such nonsense.

    “Making the entire world safe for American style Democracy”…..

    Ahhhh – does that include turning over national capitals to mayors like Marion Barry – a Black hustling crack cocaine addict race hustler?

    Seems like the only White people left on Planet Earth that even have a clue of fighting, working with these mountain Islamic people or just Middle Eastern People are….

    The Russians.

    Americans got chased out of Lebanon.

    Russians stayed. They made deals, learned who was who – respected certain locals and put out the idea that if you work with the Russians, you’ll prosper but…

    If you F#*\$&@# with the Russians torture and kill our people, well…..

    You and your relatives are going to get it back in spades.

    Here’s one of my favorite videos of Russian Classical music orchestra doing a victory concert in Palmyra Syria, victory of ISIS – the Russian orchestra are performing in a classical Greek amphitheater.

    Did we ever do that in Afghanistan 0r did we try to share Britney Speers, Michael Jackson, or some wigger Rap hip hop singer like Emmenem?

    Here’s the video:

    Jack Ryan
    The Political Cesspool

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @jaye ryan

    I'll say one thing about the Russians - their propaganda is a lot classier than ours. Official American propaganda is inevitably ham-handed, trashy, and juvenile (the unofficial kind, pumped out through America's commercial media outlets, though equally offensive, is often much more sophisticated).

  208. At least this happens on a Democrat’s watch, so we won’t have to hear about it again for the next 30 years.

  209. @Corvinus
    @Reg Cæsar

    "As was Bush’s lie about Islam having any connection to peace?"

    You, too, are off to lunch. The Quran upholds the sanctity of life by stating, “The killing of a person for reasons other than legal retaliation or for stopping corruption in the land is as great a sin as murdering all of humankind. However, to save a life would be as great a virtue as to save all of humankind.” (5:32).

    It's not the religion, it's the zealots who bastardize the faith. Turkish Islamic scholar Fethullah Gülen said the following on the day after Sept. 11, 2001, “Terrorism cannot be used to achieve any Islamic goal. No terrorist can be a Muslim, and no true Muslim can be a terrorist. Islam orders peace, and the Quran demands from each true Muslim that he or she be a symbol of peace and support the maintenance of basic human rights.”

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @James J O'Meara, @epebble, @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    It’s not the religion, it’s the zealots who bastardize the faith.

    To a Christian, all schools of Islam are equally valid. It’s the number of adherents of each that would matter to us, and their reach. The violent ones, or at least the supporters thereof, make up a large chunk of the billion or so.

    You put yourself in the position of an imam lecturing us on why Calvin is wrong and the Pope right.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Reg Cæsar

    "To a Christian, all schools of Islam are equally valid."

    Corrected for accuracy --> To a Christian, those schools of Islam based on the meaning and spirit of the Koran, ones that condemn violence, are keepers of their faith.

    "It’s the number of adherents of each that would matter to us, and their reach. The violent ones, or at least the supporters thereof, make up a large chunk of the billion or so."

    You're going to have to provide a source here. along with background and context, as your track record of being honest and accurate is abysmal.

    I do appreciate your white friend YetAnotherAnon chiming in with his customary "Troll". It only further proves his ignorance. Then again, two peas in a pod...

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Dnought

    , @BB753
    @Reg Cæsar

    Well, Islam is like Protestantism in that there are hundreds of sects and no single coherent theology. Muslims only unite as one group against non-Muslims.
    Basically, Islam is monotheism for dummies. A dumbed-down version of Abrahamic religions, with a touch of ancestral pagan Arab traditions ( like the adoration of the Black Rock in Mecca).
    As a religion, it proved successful during roughly a millennium but I'm afraid its time is over. It will splinter further this century into a zillion sects like Hinduism or Protestantism.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  210. @J.Ross
    IT'S PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
    Just kidding, seed oils are of course haram.
    https://twitter.com/haqmal/status/1425502397627990017?s=21

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Kjr, @YetAnotherAnon

    Better still, these happy Talibanis dancing, some pretty cool moves and hardware.

    Alas some naughty boy has replaced the original soundtrack with the Chilean feminist anthem “Un violador en tu camino” (“A rapist in your path”).

    https://twitter.com/AquaRevolucion/status/1426609976022347778

    https://qz.com/1758765/chiles-viral-feminist-flash-mob-is-spreading-around-the-world/

  211. @Whiskey
    @Paperback Writer

    Aside from the catastrophe of Wokeness directed squarely at White males after massive defeat in Afghanistan, the massive defeat is going to invite lots of Chinese and Russian aggression.

    China is almost certainly going to invade and conquer Taiwan, the only question is will they also take Hawaii (this can be done)*. And Russia might just invade and retake Alaska and part of the Pacific Northwest.

    The US looks weak, will be at war against its White population at home (inevitably after disaster in Afghanistan) and will invite attack.

    Taiwan will be relatively straightforward for China. They can tolerate casualties, which will be heavy, since they have nearly unlimited manpower. Likely an airborne invasion coupled with just running container ships ashore to create harbor breaks. It will not be an easy cakewalk but it can be done.

    *Hawaii would likely require Taiwan like first strike missiles, coupled with airborne assaults and container ship troop ships along with nukes pointed at the US and the willingness to use them tactically. Recent war games showed the Pacific Fleet basically all sunk within 72 hours and the Chinese owning the Pacific all the way to California. Biden is weak, senile, and his Regency run by weirdos, trannies, women, and homosexuals. None of that does anything but invite attack.

    America is like a Target in a black neighborhood when the Police are defunded. Looted by everyone around. The police just got disbanded.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Thea

    “Russia might just invade and retake Alaska and part of the Pacific Northwest.”

    Is anyone offering odds on this? I think it’s very unlikely.

    Why should Russia or China harpoon a whale that’s mortally ill? That’s how you get your boat smashed in the death-throes.

    All they have to do is wait.

    I’ve been saying this for ten years, and China is a lot stronger now than she was then.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @YetAnotherAnon

    >harpoon a whale [already] mortally ill
    cos the harpoon relaxes it?
    ... what?

  212. @Kjr
    @Farenheit

    I don't understand this line of argument.

    Other than for that one family out in Nevada a few years ago, when has owning a rifle ever helped protect an American man or woman from wrongful imprisonment by the powers that be?

    In America, the land of the free and the home of the brave, where everyone is presumed innocent, 99 out of 100 people charged with a crime are convicted.

    And 1 out of every 3 men in America is handcuffed at least once in his life.

    And 1 out of every 60 men in America is in prison at this very moment.

    Unless you believe that Americans are the most jailworthy of peoples on the earth you've got to admit that there are an awful lot of normal people being shackled by their own government.

    Americans are not Afghanis.

    Americans do not fight.

    Americans swell with pride at putting in 50 hour work weeks and, when they aren't working, they are sheltering in place and living their lives through a screen.

    Europeans have an excuse for being so wussified. After all, they have no guns.

    Americans have no excuse but the faint memory of puritan morals which requires that all evildoers be punished.

    And so, when its your turn to be punished you know well the psychology of your fellow citizen and submit to it as weakly as a lamb.

    The American second amendment was designed to protect the first.

    Yet when they came for the first amendment, closing the houses of worship, muzzling the populace, censoring the free press, and making peaceful assembly illegal did the right to bear arms help safeguard your rights?

    No.

    Because our government OF the people, BY the people, and FOR the people - so help me God - loved the mask.

    Oh yes we did.

    So too when it comes to supporting "our boys in blue", our courts, our prosecutors, our prisons -- if our guns are for anything it is to protect those fine puboic servants from the rowdy proles.

    If Winston Smith is looking wistfully out of his window at the Dominican washer woman singing with abandon in Washington Heights it is with a prayer in his heart that the aurhorities come for her quickly.


    The one thing that all Americans agree upon is their burning desire for Law and Order. They only disagree about which people to use it against.

    Free playfulness with the acceptance of all of the risks that entails is anathema to a people who truly believe that their little ones will live forever, save they fall from uncushioned monkeybars or be spoken to by an unauthorized adult.

    And the solution we found is to allow our youth to go abroad, while still in their teens, to wreak amoral havoc upon strangers so that they can come home afterwards to the news that they are heroes and to a lifetime PTSD Pension.

    Americans who speak with pride about their right to publish what they will, to ark as they will, to have a speedy trial, to be presumed innocent, to be secure in their persons and posessions are so cringeworthy they don't even know their cringeworthy.

    Whose flag is that you're waving? What have the stars and stripes done for you and yours?

    As Samuel told the Jews who begged him for a King and Government (I Samuel Chapter 8): "You will be its slave".

    And still they demanded it.

    As do we.

    Whatever else one can say about the Afghanis of the less western sort, they do not boast of owning ornamental guns while their sons are shackled by the millions.

    As we do.

    As ours are.

    Replies: @Clyde, @InnerCynic

    Yet when they came for the first amendment, closing the houses of worship, muzzling the populace, censoring the free press, and making peaceful assembly illegal did the right to bear arms help safeguard your rights?

    Bingo! Millions should be in the streets and marching on state capitols demanding that this end immediately. Religious “leaders” should be on the forefront.

    Where are they?…. Nowhere to be seen. But they’re constantly lowing like cows for more “offerings” when it’s their own parishioners they’ve sacrificed up to Baal

  213. @Reg Cæsar
    @Corvinus


    It’s not the religion, it’s the zealots who bastardize the faith.
     
    To a Christian, all schools of Islam are equally valid. It's the number of adherents of each that would matter to us, and their reach. The violent ones, or at least the supporters thereof, make up a large chunk of the billion or so.

    You put yourself in the position of an imam lecturing us on why Calvin is wrong and the Pope right.


    https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1338109444.1801/flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg

    Replies: @Corvinus, @BB753

    “To a Christian, all schools of Islam are equally valid.”

    Corrected for accuracy –> To a Christian, those schools of Islam based on the meaning and spirit of the Koran, ones that condemn violence, are keepers of their faith.

    “It’s the number of adherents of each that would matter to us, and their reach. The violent ones, or at least the supporters thereof, make up a large chunk of the billion or so.”

    You’re going to have to provide a source here. along with background and context, as your track record of being honest and accurate is abysmal.

    I do appreciate your white friend YetAnotherAnon chiming in with his customary “Troll”. It only further proves his ignorance. Then again, two peas in a pod…

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Corvinus


    To a Christian, those schools of Islam based on the meaning and spirit of the Koran, ones that condemn violence, are keepers of their faith.
     
    The "meaning and spirit of the Koran" is heresy. It's irredeemable in a way that paganism is not.

    Replies: @Boomthorkell, @Corvinus

    , @Dnought
    @Corvinus

    This 2013 Pew Poll, taken mostly in countries with a reputation for having more "moderate" or secular Moslems, indicates about 18-19 percent support for Al Qaeda, perhaps a bit more for the concept of "suicide bombing". That's a pretty large chunk who could be considered "supporters thereof", I would say.

    Replies: @Dnought, @Corvinus

  214. Although Americans find this withdrawal humiliating, spare a thought abou1 1. who else could have done even this much, and 2. how does it feel for vassal nations, such as Romanians.

    If you go to Wikipedia, to see the 51 nations who sent troops, you have to click on “show more”. Twenty six Romanian dead for absolutely no reason. Fourteen Czech dead, probably more than against Hitler. Seven Hungarians dead. You fucks don’t even register it, and will leave us under the Russian, or the Austrian, or the Turk, or whoever feels like taking us over, just like you did in 1945. We fight your wars, but you don’t fight ours, except when it provides propaganda, recruiting more meat in your wars against some other empire.

    Why would 32 Gruzins die in an American war, when, subsequently, you didn’t move a finger to help them, while their country was quartered? Most of the US leaders can’t even tell if Gruzia is in United States or elsewhere. A Republican representative complained about the propaganda budget focused on G.U.A.M., only to be mocked by Democrats that “Guam is part of America”. Well, the imbecile Republican read something about the organization combining Gruzia, Ukraine, Armenia, and Moldova, but she didn’t know, and so she apologized.

    So how do you think this defeat feels for the Gruzins?

    Show more.

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    Thank you; At first I thought you are joking since I had not known about Gruzia. We call it Georgia in U.S.

    Now, read this joke:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/guam-delivered-on-its-promise-to-gift-rep-marjorie-taylor-greene-cookies-after-she-falsely-said-the-territory-is-a-foreign-country/ar-BB1eCDdI

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros

    , @Hugo Silva
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    The Gruzins should learn a lesson, fighting their own Battles instead of fighting the Battles of their master!

    America Will help them if it is in the interest of America to do so, if it Isn't, then the Gruzins are on their own!

    , @kaganovitch
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    Fourteen Czech dead, probably more than against Hitler.

    This is absolute nonsense. More than 10 times as many Czechs were massacred in 1 day in Lidice 6/10 1942 as a reprisal for the assassination of Reinhard Heydrich. The total death toll from Heydrich related reprisals was over 1200.

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros

  215. @Anon
    Trying to assimilate immigrants into a country is essentially the same as nation building, and just as destined to fail, unless the number are very small and not allowed to cluster too much in Chinatown-like areas.

    Replies: @James J O'Meara

    Indeed, and those who promote it, thinking it makes them “safer” from the White majority, will find themselves facing the Taliban’s cousins.

  216. @Corvinus
    @Reg Cæsar

    "As was Bush’s lie about Islam having any connection to peace?"

    You, too, are off to lunch. The Quran upholds the sanctity of life by stating, “The killing of a person for reasons other than legal retaliation or for stopping corruption in the land is as great a sin as murdering all of humankind. However, to save a life would be as great a virtue as to save all of humankind.” (5:32).

    It's not the religion, it's the zealots who bastardize the faith. Turkish Islamic scholar Fethullah Gülen said the following on the day after Sept. 11, 2001, “Terrorism cannot be used to achieve any Islamic goal. No terrorist can be a Muslim, and no true Muslim can be a terrorist. Islam orders peace, and the Quran demands from each true Muslim that he or she be a symbol of peace and support the maintenance of basic human rights.”

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @James J O'Meara, @epebble, @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    “The killing of a person for reasons other than legal retaliation or for stopping corruption in the land is as great a sin as murdering all of humankind.”

    “stopping corruption in the land” is defined as “Death to the West.”

  217. @Reg Cæsar
    @Corvinus


    It’s not the religion, it’s the zealots who bastardize the faith.
     
    To a Christian, all schools of Islam are equally valid. It's the number of adherents of each that would matter to us, and their reach. The violent ones, or at least the supporters thereof, make up a large chunk of the billion or so.

    You put yourself in the position of an imam lecturing us on why Calvin is wrong and the Pope right.


    https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1338109444.1801/flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg

    Replies: @Corvinus, @BB753

    Well, Islam is like Protestantism in that there are hundreds of sects and no single coherent theology. Muslims only unite as one group against non-Muslims.
    Basically, Islam is monotheism for dummies. A dumbed-down version of Abrahamic religions, with a touch of ancestral pagan Arab traditions ( like the adoration of the Black Rock in Mecca).
    As a religion, it proved successful during roughly a millennium but I’m afraid its time is over. It will splinter further this century into a zillion sects like Hinduism or Protestantism.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @BB753

    Thanks. My point is that to Christian believers, every single one of those splinter sects is wrong, as are the trunks from which they split.

    To us, there are no "right" versions of Islam. Only tolerable and intolerable.

  218. If only it were a joke. Corvy this is who you work for, son. Come into the light.

    • Agree: Old Prude
    • Thanks: JMcG
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Desiderius


    Afghanistan finally liberated from a regime that imposes mandatory face coverings, destroys statues, and promotes the genital mutilation of children

    — Bronze Age Kashi (@kwamurai) August 15, 2021
     
    Outstanding! This is the perfect summation of the clownworld-reality we currently live in.
  219. According to photos on Twitter, Kabul is now being prepared for the arrival of the Taliban and Sharia law; advertisements showing women are being painted over.

  220. • Agree: J.Ross
  221. @J.Ross
    @Kjr

    I was under the impression they weren't allowed to dance so no. But yes this man is liberating his country and guaranteeing the traditions of his fathers, he truly knows joy. The fact that our traditions are very different is totally irrelevant. There's this but it's probably depressing:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHPrU7R8L2Y

    Replies: @Anon7

    At 26:40 in the video Afghan men are shown making molds to make pots and pans. Molds are made out of packed sand; scrap metal is melted down and poured into the molds.

    So, I guess those Humvees and jets we left in country will not go to waste.

  222. Afghanistan has of course been a screaming obvious failure for most of the 20 years. Steve has, with others, suggested this failure was built in from the get go.

    Peter Hitchens in 2012:

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2012/03/get-the-cabinet-to-patrol-the-roads-of-afghanistan.html

  223. At least one of the new Taliban leaders, speaking in the presidential palace in Kabul, has stated that he was detained in the Guantanamo Bay camp for several years.

    So, we’ve got that going for us.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Anon7

    Thanks the thing just gets worse and worse. How he must love and respect America so much.

  224. @Buffalo Joe
    There is a movie, I believe the title was "The Beast" about a Russian tank crew, hence the beast, in Afghanistan, low budget good flic. Find it and watch it.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Hunsdon, @Kylie

    “There is a movie, I believe the title was “The Beast” about a Russian tank crew, hence the beast, in Afghanistan, low budget good flic.”

    Excellent movie.

  225. @Corvinus
    @Reg Cæsar

    "To a Christian, all schools of Islam are equally valid."

    Corrected for accuracy --> To a Christian, those schools of Islam based on the meaning and spirit of the Koran, ones that condemn violence, are keepers of their faith.

    "It’s the number of adherents of each that would matter to us, and their reach. The violent ones, or at least the supporters thereof, make up a large chunk of the billion or so."

    You're going to have to provide a source here. along with background and context, as your track record of being honest and accurate is abysmal.

    I do appreciate your white friend YetAnotherAnon chiming in with his customary "Troll". It only further proves his ignorance. Then again, two peas in a pod...

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Dnought

    To a Christian, those schools of Islam based on the meaning and spirit of the Koran, ones that condemn violence, are keepers of their faith.

    The “meaning and spirit of the Koran” is heresy. It’s irredeemable in a way that paganism is not.

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
    @Reg Cæsar

    Heathenism, right?

    Not technically apostasy or heresy, but also not Pagan.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Corvinus
    @Reg Cæsar

    “The “meaning and spirit of the Koran” is heresy.”

    No. That and other religious texts provide it. The problem is when zealots misinterpret it’s meaning, which in turn perverts it’s spirit.

    “It’s irredeemable in a way that paganism is not.”

    Theologian and philosopher you are not. More like two bit shaman.

  226. @BB753
    @Reg Cæsar

    Well, Islam is like Protestantism in that there are hundreds of sects and no single coherent theology. Muslims only unite as one group against non-Muslims.
    Basically, Islam is monotheism for dummies. A dumbed-down version of Abrahamic religions, with a touch of ancestral pagan Arab traditions ( like the adoration of the Black Rock in Mecca).
    As a religion, it proved successful during roughly a millennium but I'm afraid its time is over. It will splinter further this century into a zillion sects like Hinduism or Protestantism.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Thanks. My point is that to Christian believers, every single one of those splinter sects is wrong, as are the trunks from which they split.

    To us, there are no “right” versions of Islam. Only tolerable and intolerable.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Disagree: Corvinus
  227. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/kwamurai/status/1426946717124108288?s=20

    If only it were a joke. Corvy this is who you work for, son. Come into the light.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Afghanistan finally liberated from a regime that imposes mandatory face coverings, destroys statues, and promotes the genital mutilation of children

    — Bronze Age Kashi (@kwamurai) August 15, 2021

    Outstanding! This is the perfect summation of the clownworld-reality we currently live in.

    • Agree: Old Prude
    • LOL: Triteleia Laxa
  228. @Reg Cæsar
    @Corvinus


    To a Christian, those schools of Islam based on the meaning and spirit of the Koran, ones that condemn violence, are keepers of their faith.
     
    The "meaning and spirit of the Koran" is heresy. It's irredeemable in a way that paganism is not.

    Replies: @Boomthorkell, @Corvinus

    Heathenism, right?

    Not technically apostasy or heresy, but also not Pagan.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Boomthorkell


    Not technically apostasy or heresy, but also not Pagan.
     
    Hilaire Belloc included it as one of The Great Heresies. And he only had room for five, so it must be serious.
  229. @jaye ryan
    "The Man who would be King" is my favorite Sean Connery movie and such a great Kipling, John Huston work of art.

    This movie always looked and sounded so sensible to me.

    But with Americans it was always:

    Rambo III

    American patriotard Johnny Rambo goes off to Afghanistan to fight the evil racist Russians and doing these proud mountain Muslim freedom fighters - Ronald Reagan invited them to the White House.

    I was about 15 when this Rambo III movie came out and I immediately dismissed it as the same as WWF fake wrestling.

    Who could believe such BS?

    Apparently Reagan Bush Boomers could, did and do believe such nonsense.

    "Making the entire world safe for American style Democracy".....

    Ahhhh - does that include turning over national capitals to mayors like Marion Barry - a Black hustling crack cocaine addict race hustler?

    Seems like the only White people left on Planet Earth that even have a clue of fighting, working with these mountain Islamic people or just Middle Eastern People are....


    The Russians.

    Americans got chased out of Lebanon.

    Russians stayed. They made deals, learned who was who - respected certain locals and put out the idea that if you work with the Russians, you'll prosper but...

    If you F#*$&@# with the Russians torture and kill our people, well.....

    You and your relatives are going to get it back in spades.

    Here's one of my favorite videos of Russian Classical music orchestra doing a victory concert in Palmyra Syria, victory of ISIS - the Russian orchestra are performing in a classical Greek amphitheater.

    Did we ever do that in Afghanistan 0r did we try to share Britney Speers, Michael Jackson, or some wigger Rap hip hop singer like Emmenem?

    Here's the video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnaUe1mrJ9E

    Jack Ryan
    The Political Cesspool

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    I’ll say one thing about the Russians – their propaganda is a lot classier than ours. Official American propaganda is inevitably ham-handed, trashy, and juvenile (the unofficial kind, pumped out through America’s commercial media outlets, though equally offensive, is often much more sophisticated).

  230. To me, the answer is clear—withdrawal hurts the United States. It empowers our enemies. It grants not just victory but territory and resources to an enemy that’s already proven that it can hit us, hard, at home.

    But there’s also a different question in play, one concerned less with security than with morality. Does the United States have a moral obligation to protect the people of Afghanistan from the darkness that awaits? The answer is a difficult yes. As the Afghan government is proving incapable of upholding its responsibility to protect its own citizens, our concern for the fundamental humanity and worth of the Afghan people demands that we act.

    To understand why, a bit of history and theology is in order.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1427401988841644034


    There will be no shortage of commentary allocating blame for this dreadful moment, but it’s worth reflecting on the central question of the purpose of our intervention in Afghanistan. The answer to that question will shape your view of all that has followed over the last 20 years: Was the primary purpose of our intervention in Afghanistan to defend the U.S. from terror attacks or was the primary purpose to destroy the specific entities—the Taliban and al Qaeda—most responsible for 9/11?

    This might sound like a distinction without a difference, but in reality it’s a distinction that makes all the difference. If the goal of our intervention was to defend the United States from further 9/11-scale terror attacks, then the Afghanistan mission was a 20-year success. Since 9/11 the United States has been so free of large-scale jihadist attacks that right-wing domestic terrorists have killed more Americans at home than jihadists.
     
  231. @Corvinus
    @Reg Cæsar

    "To a Christian, all schools of Islam are equally valid."

    Corrected for accuracy --> To a Christian, those schools of Islam based on the meaning and spirit of the Koran, ones that condemn violence, are keepers of their faith.

    "It’s the number of adherents of each that would matter to us, and their reach. The violent ones, or at least the supporters thereof, make up a large chunk of the billion or so."

    You're going to have to provide a source here. along with background and context, as your track record of being honest and accurate is abysmal.

    I do appreciate your white friend YetAnotherAnon chiming in with his customary "Troll". It only further proves his ignorance. Then again, two peas in a pod...

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Dnought

    This 2013 Pew Poll, taken mostly in countries with a reputation for having more “moderate” or secular Moslems, indicates about 18-19 percent support for Al Qaeda, perhaps a bit more for the concept of “suicide bombing”. That’s a pretty large chunk who could be considered “supporters thereof”, I would say.

    • Replies: @Dnought
    @Dnought

    I should add that is average 18-19 percent per nation, rather than overall. Still, fairly shocking to see 23% support for Al Qaeda in Indonesia, with its large population, and reputation for relative "secularism". That is a "large chunk", indeed.

    , @Corvinus
    @Dnought

    No. That percentage is indicating their displeasure with Western intervention. Separate religion from geo politics.

  232. @Dnought
    @Corvinus

    This 2013 Pew Poll, taken mostly in countries with a reputation for having more "moderate" or secular Moslems, indicates about 18-19 percent support for Al Qaeda, perhaps a bit more for the concept of "suicide bombing". That's a pretty large chunk who could be considered "supporters thereof", I would say.

    Replies: @Dnought, @Corvinus

    I should add that is average 18-19 percent per nation, rather than overall. Still, fairly shocking to see 23% support for Al Qaeda in Indonesia, with its large population, and reputation for relative “secularism”. That is a “large chunk”, indeed.

  233. @CCZ
    @Desiderius

    https://twitter.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1426763243893280769

    Replies: @Desiderius

    If you read your Strauss and Howe you’ll recognize that that look might just be as much generational and geographical. A lot of men domestically know better than to use that expression but a good many thinking it. They forecasted thirty years ago that we’d be at maximum gender differentiation at this point and a great many signs pointing that way. Only the oversized demographic and financial power of the Boomers has kept it underground.

  234. • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Desiderius

    How much does a house in DC cost when you burn it to the ground?

  235. https://twitter.com/BuyBookBuyBook/status/1426970597385461762?s=20

    Folks you need to come to terms with the fact that these people are not elite in any sense of the word. How people got that idea is a great mystery only surpassed by the mystery of why they so tenaciously cling to it.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Desiderius

    The US seized the airport
    ...
    and then stood by impotently while the airport was shelled from positions recently abandoned by Americans
    ...
    it really makes you think

    , @Thea
    @Desiderius

    Afghanistan was one big shameful own goal but the ambassador’s behavior takes the cake. Does he not understand this reflects on all Americans? It is his job to represent us and our values. I guess he gathered the rainbow flag to bring home safely at least.


    It should be easy for the taliban to appeal to young women looking for something g meaningful: “feeling lost and betrayed by empty American culture of getting dumped after 1 night stands? Or coming home to an empty apartment after a day in a cubicle? We can offer you respect and a life role beyond the superficial. Under the burqa women’s beauty is equalized- no need for pricey make up”

  236. @Nick Diaz
    Steve Sailer trying to save face out of sheer patriotic pride when he said: "Did the U.S have the military strength to topple the Taliban? Yes."

    You lost to the Taliban. Get over it. A war is not won by battles, but by achieving your final strategic goal. Toppling the Taliban is irrelevant if your ultimate goal is to make sure that they never hold power again. If you toppled the Taliban government, lost thousands of men, spent billions of Dollars, and in the end that very government is back to power, then what have you accomplished? NOTHING.

    America lost, just like it lost in Vietnam. A Pathetic performance by a coutry that self-titles "The Hyperpower". The excuses are endless, just like American Republican patriotics have endless excuses for making the case that America did not lose in Vietnam:

    "We won every major battle against the Vietcongs."

    "The liberals back home held our military back."

    "We would have vanquished the VK if we stayed there just a couple more years. But the Hippies back home betrayed us"

    It reminds me of sports fans making excuses for why their teams lost. Same ST. The bottom line is that the stated *final* strategic objective of the U.S was to hold Saigon, and Saigon fell. That's the war being lost, despite how many battles you want to brag about that you won. Likewise, after 20 years, thousands of American boys dead, and billions of Dollars spent, the towel heads are back to power. Pointless.

    The U.S Military is probably the most overrated military ever. Given the huge amounts of money that the U.S spends on it, the fact that even Banana Republics can some times give America a fight is beyond laughable. Of course, this is partly due to the fact that huge amounts of that cash goes into the Industriial-military complex, which overcharges the American People hugely. And when it comes to actual Powers, the recent war games demonstrate that America would lose to both Russia and China in a non-nuclear conflict. In fact, against Russia, it wouldn't even be close according to the thousands of sims that were run.

    Replies: @BluEidDvl, @Mike_from_SGV, @MEH 0910

    Absolutely. It doesn’t matter how much you support your military. How much you spout “thank you for your service”. How many flags you fly or military themed tee shirts or bumper stickers you have. It doesn’t matter how many time you say “the troops didn’t lose, they were betrayed by the brass in the pentagon”. None of that matters. If your nation starts/engages in a war & doesn’t achieve its military goals/objectives.. it lost!. Just like Vietnam. We won virtually every engagement & had (then) state of the art technology yet scrambled out of the whole mess shamefully leaving our South Vietnamese allies to their fate. In Vietnam, we lost!. In Afghanistan, we lost!. The scale of this debacle is just starting to reverberate around the world & you can be assured that the Chinese & the Russians are watching this VERY closely. 20yrs, \$2 TRILLION of our nations treasure. Thousands dead & tens of thousands of wounded & psychologically scared for life. The end, the whole sordid mess folded like a cheap suit & they retook Kabul in less than 3 weeks.

    So two peasant armies defeated the “greatest military in history”. It’s quite apparent they we’re not very good at the empire business. If we’re not willing to support our troops & see our objectives out to the end then we need to bring ALL the troops home because we suck at this!.

    I’m a veteran btw & it pains me terribly to acknowledge these truths but.. there it is.. 🤔

    • Thanks: Buffalo Joe
  237. @Corvinus
    @Reg Cæsar

    "As was Bush’s lie about Islam having any connection to peace?"

    You, too, are off to lunch. The Quran upholds the sanctity of life by stating, “The killing of a person for reasons other than legal retaliation or for stopping corruption in the land is as great a sin as murdering all of humankind. However, to save a life would be as great a virtue as to save all of humankind.” (5:32).

    It's not the religion, it's the zealots who bastardize the faith. Turkish Islamic scholar Fethullah Gülen said the following on the day after Sept. 11, 2001, “Terrorism cannot be used to achieve any Islamic goal. No terrorist can be a Muslim, and no true Muslim can be a terrorist. Islam orders peace, and the Quran demands from each true Muslim that he or she be a symbol of peace and support the maintenance of basic human rights.”

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @James J O'Meara, @epebble, @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    I think you should read the Quran more fully.

    Quran (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”.

    Quran (4:89) – “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

    Quran (8:12) – “(Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels… “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

    Quran (8:67) – “It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land…”

    Quran (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.”

    Quran (9:30) – “And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!”

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @epebble

    I’m fairly certain the Bible and Torah have similar passages.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @John Johnson, @epebble

  238. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Whiskey

    "Russia might just invade and retake Alaska and part of the Pacific Northwest."

    Is anyone offering odds on this? I think it's very unlikely.

    Why should Russia or China harpoon a whale that's mortally ill? That's how you get your boat smashed in the death-throes.

    All they have to do is wait.

    I've been saying this for ten years, and China is a lot stronger now than she was then.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    >harpoon a whale [already] mortally ill
    cos the harpoon relaxes it?
    … what?

  239. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/bog_beef/status/1426616164772417541?s=20

    Replies: @J.Ross

    How much does a house in DC cost when you burn it to the ground?

  240. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/BuyBookBuyBook/status/1426970597385461762?s=20

    Folks you need to come to terms with the fact that these people are not elite in any sense of the word. How people got that idea is a great mystery only surpassed by the mystery of why they so tenaciously cling to it.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Thea

    The US seized the airport

    and then stood by impotently while the airport was shelled from positions recently abandoned by Americans

    it really makes you think

  241. @Corvinus
    @Reg Cæsar

    "As was Bush’s lie about Islam having any connection to peace?"

    You, too, are off to lunch. The Quran upholds the sanctity of life by stating, “The killing of a person for reasons other than legal retaliation or for stopping corruption in the land is as great a sin as murdering all of humankind. However, to save a life would be as great a virtue as to save all of humankind.” (5:32).

    It's not the religion, it's the zealots who bastardize the faith. Turkish Islamic scholar Fethullah Gülen said the following on the day after Sept. 11, 2001, “Terrorism cannot be used to achieve any Islamic goal. No terrorist can be a Muslim, and no true Muslim can be a terrorist. Islam orders peace, and the Quran demands from each true Muslim that he or she be a symbol of peace and support the maintenance of basic human rights.”

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @James J O'Meara, @epebble, @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    Reg Caesar, In correcting Corvinus, you misquoted the Quran:
    “The Quran upholds the sanctity of life by stating, “The killing of a person for reasons other than legal retaliation or for stopping corruption in the land is as great a sin as murdering all of humankind. However, to save a life would be as great a virtue as to save all of humankind.” (5:32).”
    Take a look at
    https://legacy.quran.com/5/32-33
    and you will see that this is a doctrine that Allah gave to Jews, not to Muslims. Muslims follow the sterner death/crucifixion/double-amputation punishment prescribed in Quran 5:33.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    mark, you have a nice way of correcting posters.

  242. @Dacian Julien Soros
    Although Americans find this withdrawal humiliating, spare a thought abou1 1. who else could have done even this much, and 2. how does it feel for vassal nations, such as Romanians.

    If you go to Wikipedia, to see the 51 nations who sent troops, you have to click on "show more". Twenty six Romanian dead for absolutely no reason. Fourteen Czech dead, probably more than against Hitler. Seven Hungarians dead. You fucks don't even register it, and will leave us under the Russian, or the Austrian, or the Turk, or whoever feels like taking us over, just like you did in 1945. We fight your wars, but you don't fight ours, except when it provides propaganda, recruiting more meat in your wars against some other empire.

    Why would 32 Gruzins die in an American war, when, subsequently, you didn't move a finger to help them, while their country was quartered? Most of the US leaders can't even tell if Gruzia is in United States or elsewhere. A Republican representative complained about the propaganda budget focused on G.U.A.M., only to be mocked by Democrats that "Guam is part of America". Well, the imbecile Republican read something about the organization combining Gruzia, Ukraine, Armenia, and Moldova, but she didn't know, and so she apologized.

    So how do you think this defeat feels for the Gruzins?

    Show more.

    Replies: @epebble, @Hugo Silva, @kaganovitch

    Thank you; At first I thought you are joking since I had not known about Gruzia. We call it Georgia in U.S.

    Now, read this joke:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/guam-delivered-on-its-promise-to-gift-rep-marjorie-taylor-greene-cookies-after-she-falsely-said-the-territory-is-a-foreign-country/ar-BB1eCDdI

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
    @epebble

    This MTG incident is what I am talking about. Her original statement was " We believe our hard-earned tax dollars should just go for America, not for what? China, Russia, the Middle East, Guam, whatever, wherever." In that list, the organization G.U.A.M. is a more meaningful inclusion, compared to Guam the island.

    I called it Gruzia specifically to avoid this sort of confusion. Both "Georgia" and "Gruzia" are nowhere near the name they give to their own country.

    Replies: @epebble

  243. Props to Rod. Even the stiff-necked enter into the Kingdom eventually.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Desiderius

    Well PB was right about demographic changes and GOP delusion on race in the mid 90s so I don't see why they would start listening to him in 2002.

    PB also warned about postmodern thinking/frankfurt school/critical theory and conservatives today seem to think CRT was created last year.

    He was also one of the few that predicted a Trump win.

    What the GOP should do is ignore people that are good at predicting things. Instead they should listen to libertarians and neocons. They have been right about everything. That's why I invested so heavily in the Kabul Freedom Market Fund. Hang on I need to go check it.

  244. We never had any business in Afghanistan. Or Iraq. Or, turning back the clock, ‘Nam.

    But…we’ve heard all this before, right? And no one listens anyway.

    • Agree: Thea
  245. @Menschmaschine
    The funny thing is, the Taliban actually tried to surrender but the US would not accept it.

    DID YOU KNOW that shortly after the U.S. invaded Afghanistan, the Taliban tried to surrender?

    For centuries in Afghanistan, when a rival force had come to power, the defeated one would put down their weapons and be integrated into the new power structure — obviously with much less power, or none at all. That’s how you do with neighbors you have to continue to live with. This isn’t a football game, where the teams go to different cities when it’s over. That may be hard for us to remember, because the U.S. hasn’t fought a protracted war on its own soil since the Civil War.

    So when the Taliban came to surrender, the U.S. turned them down repeatedly, in a series of arrogant blunders spelled out in Anand Gopal’s investigative treatment of the Afghanistan war, “No Good Men Among the Living.”



    Only full annihilation was enough for the Bush administration. They wanted more terrorists in body bags. The problem was that the Taliban had stopped fighting, having either fled to Pakistan or melted back into civilian life. Al Qaeda, for its part, was down to a handful of members.

    So how do you kill terrorists if there aren’t any?

    Simple: Afghans that the U.S. worked with understood the predicament their military sponsors were in, so they fabricated bad guys. Demand has a way of creating supply, and the U.S. was paying for information that led to the death or capture of Taliban fighters. Suddenly there were Taliban everywhere. Score-settling ran amok; all you had to do to get your neighbor killed or sent to Guantánamo was tell the U.S. they were members of the Taliban.

    Doors would be kicked in, no questions asked. The men left standing became warlords, built massive fortunes, and shipped their wealth abroad. “We are not nation-building again,” President Donald Trump declared Monday night. Well, we never were, unless building high-rises with looted cash in Dubai counts.

    After a few years of this charade, after their surrender efforts were repeatedly rebuffed, the old Taliban started picking up guns again. When they were driven from power, the population was happy to see them go. The U.S. managed to make them popular again.

    Liberals then spent the 2008 presidential campaign complaining that the U.S. had “ignored” Afghanistan — when, in reality, the parts of the country without troop presence were the only parts at peace, facing no insurgency against the Afghan government, such as it was. Then President Barack Obama came in and launched a surge in troop levels while simultaneously announcing a withdrawal — coupled with a heightened focus on night raids, relying on the same system of unreliable intelligence that had netted so many uninvolved people already.

    And now Trump says he has a new and better strategy. He says the U.S. needs to get Pakistan more involved — except, of course, Pakistan’s intelligence service has been propping up the Taliban for decades.

    Gopal’s book is the definitive account of how the war went off the rails. It reads like a novel, but is an all-too-real portrait of three Afghans as they lived through the war — a pro-U.S. warlord, a Taliban commander, and a housewife. I’d suggest Trump read it — the book provides a dire warning against the sort of war effort the president is about to double down on — but it’s longer than a page, which his advisers say is the max he’ll digest. And besides, the only thing he seems interested in is the fact that Afghanistan has a bunch of minerals he thinks the U.S. is owed.

    Before Trump spends the windfall he hopes to reap from mining Afghanistan, he should consider one starting reality: We are now losing a war to an enemy that already surrendered. That’s not easy to do.
     
    https://static.theintercept.com/amp/afghanistan-donald-trump-taliban-surrender-here-we-are.html

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @Prester John

    This comes as no surprise. Read “The Fifty Year Wound” by Derek Laebart. Though it’s about the Cold War, it’s a primer on how amateurish and flat out stupid the personnel who have running US foreign policy really are.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @Prester John

    Thanks on that book. I hope to read it sometime. The author and book look honest and good.

  246. @Dacian Julien Soros
    Although Americans find this withdrawal humiliating, spare a thought abou1 1. who else could have done even this much, and 2. how does it feel for vassal nations, such as Romanians.

    If you go to Wikipedia, to see the 51 nations who sent troops, you have to click on "show more". Twenty six Romanian dead for absolutely no reason. Fourteen Czech dead, probably more than against Hitler. Seven Hungarians dead. You fucks don't even register it, and will leave us under the Russian, or the Austrian, or the Turk, or whoever feels like taking us over, just like you did in 1945. We fight your wars, but you don't fight ours, except when it provides propaganda, recruiting more meat in your wars against some other empire.

    Why would 32 Gruzins die in an American war, when, subsequently, you didn't move a finger to help them, while their country was quartered? Most of the US leaders can't even tell if Gruzia is in United States or elsewhere. A Republican representative complained about the propaganda budget focused on G.U.A.M., only to be mocked by Democrats that "Guam is part of America". Well, the imbecile Republican read something about the organization combining Gruzia, Ukraine, Armenia, and Moldova, but she didn't know, and so she apologized.

    So how do you think this defeat feels for the Gruzins?

    Show more.

    Replies: @epebble, @Hugo Silva, @kaganovitch

    The Gruzins should learn a lesson, fighting their own Battles instead of fighting the Battles of their master!

    America Will help them if it is in the interest of America to do so, if it Isn’t, then the Gruzins are on their own!

  247. @rebel yell
    @Adam Smith

    Note that in one of the pictures the Afghan female voter is holding up a Voter ID card. Hmmmm...perhaps we could require voter ID cards in the US and rise to Afghan standards.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @CJ

    A picture ID card, a finger dipped in indelible ink, and her face is uncovered.

    That is some serious voter suppression there.

  248. @Reg Cæsar
    @Corvinus


    To a Christian, those schools of Islam based on the meaning and spirit of the Koran, ones that condemn violence, are keepers of their faith.
     
    The "meaning and spirit of the Koran" is heresy. It's irredeemable in a way that paganism is not.

    Replies: @Boomthorkell, @Corvinus

    “The “meaning and spirit of the Koran” is heresy.”

    No. That and other religious texts provide it. The problem is when zealots misinterpret it’s meaning, which in turn perverts it’s spirit.

    “It’s irredeemable in a way that paganism is not.”

    Theologian and philosopher you are not. More like two bit shaman.

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
  249. @Dacian Julien Soros
    Although Americans find this withdrawal humiliating, spare a thought abou1 1. who else could have done even this much, and 2. how does it feel for vassal nations, such as Romanians.

    If you go to Wikipedia, to see the 51 nations who sent troops, you have to click on "show more". Twenty six Romanian dead for absolutely no reason. Fourteen Czech dead, probably more than against Hitler. Seven Hungarians dead. You fucks don't even register it, and will leave us under the Russian, or the Austrian, or the Turk, or whoever feels like taking us over, just like you did in 1945. We fight your wars, but you don't fight ours, except when it provides propaganda, recruiting more meat in your wars against some other empire.

    Why would 32 Gruzins die in an American war, when, subsequently, you didn't move a finger to help them, while their country was quartered? Most of the US leaders can't even tell if Gruzia is in United States or elsewhere. A Republican representative complained about the propaganda budget focused on G.U.A.M., only to be mocked by Democrats that "Guam is part of America". Well, the imbecile Republican read something about the organization combining Gruzia, Ukraine, Armenia, and Moldova, but she didn't know, and so she apologized.

    So how do you think this defeat feels for the Gruzins?

    Show more.

    Replies: @epebble, @Hugo Silva, @kaganovitch

    Fourteen Czech dead, probably more than against Hitler.

    This is absolute nonsense. More than 10 times as many Czechs were massacred in 1 day in Lidice 6/10 1942 as a reprisal for the assassination of Reinhard Heydrich. The total death toll from Heydrich related reprisals was over 1200.

    • Agree: Clyde
    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
    @kaganovitch

    That's like saying six million Jews, including all those elderly and typhus victims, have died fighting against Hitler. AFAIK, the only person about to die after the annexation of Prague was Hacha himself.

    I am not blaming anyone - it was similar when Hungary-friendly parts Romania was annexed. I just find it naive that few Czech died in March 1939, defending their homeland in a real, palpable way, while way more died in Afghanistan, on the pretense that, one day, the New Sublime Porte will reciprocate.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

  250. @Dnought
    @Corvinus

    This 2013 Pew Poll, taken mostly in countries with a reputation for having more "moderate" or secular Moslems, indicates about 18-19 percent support for Al Qaeda, perhaps a bit more for the concept of "suicide bombing". That's a pretty large chunk who could be considered "supporters thereof", I would say.

    Replies: @Dnought, @Corvinus

    No. That percentage is indicating their displeasure with Western intervention. Separate religion from geo politics.

  251. @epebble
    @Corvinus

    I think you should read the Quran more fully.


    Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

    Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

    Quran (8:12) - "(Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels... "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

    Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

    Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

    Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"


     

    Replies: @Corvinus

    I’m fairly certain the Bible and Torah have similar passages.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Corvinus

    Mohammed had 900 Jews executed in front of their wives and children.

    Jesus kicked over a basket of coins.


    Yeah, moral equivalence.

    , @John Johnson
    @Corvinus

    I’m fairly certain the Bible and Torah have similar passages.

    Do cite the Bible or Torah verses where followers are commanded to kill non-believers and take the women as sex slaves.

    Anyone that thinks these 3 religions are basically the same hasn't studied them.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @epebble
    @Corvinus

    Can you please quote a few passages that suggest or require Jews to kill non-Jews for not accepting Judaism or leaving Judaism (or Christians to kill non-Christians for not accepting Christ or leaving Christianity)?

    Does any other faith, you are aware of, demand that?

  252. @Boomthorkell
    @Reg Cæsar

    Heathenism, right?

    Not technically apostasy or heresy, but also not Pagan.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Not technically apostasy or heresy, but also not Pagan.

    Hilaire Belloc included it as one of The Great Heresies. And he only had room for five, so it must be serious.

    • Thanks: Boomthorkell
  253. @Corvinus
    @epebble

    I’m fairly certain the Bible and Torah have similar passages.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @John Johnson, @epebble

    Mohammed had 900 Jews executed in front of their wives and children.

    Jesus kicked over a basket of coins.

    Yeah, moral equivalence.

  254. @Desiderius
    @Paperback Writer

    That vid was from July 2020.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    I think it was from 2010; it doesn’t matter. He was based.

  255. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/BuyBookBuyBook/status/1426970597385461762?s=20

    Folks you need to come to terms with the fact that these people are not elite in any sense of the word. How people got that idea is a great mystery only surpassed by the mystery of why they so tenaciously cling to it.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Thea

    Afghanistan was one big shameful own goal but the ambassador’s behavior takes the cake. Does he not understand this reflects on all Americans? It is his job to represent us and our values. I guess he gathered the rainbow flag to bring home safely at least.

    It should be easy for the taliban to appeal to young women looking for something g meaningful: “feeling lost and betrayed by empty American culture of getting dumped after 1 night stands? Or coming home to an empty apartment after a day in a cubicle? We can offer you respect and a life role beyond the superficial. Under the burqa women’s beauty is equalized- no need for pricey make up”

  256. • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Joe Stalin

    It's Groundhog day in Vietnam, over and over. I don't expect it to end soon. We'll invade somewhere else and try again.

    Meanwhile he who laughs last.....

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/08/15/russia-says-no-plan-to-evacuate-kabul-embassy-a74793

  257. @Whiskey
    @Paperback Writer

    Aside from the catastrophe of Wokeness directed squarely at White males after massive defeat in Afghanistan, the massive defeat is going to invite lots of Chinese and Russian aggression.

    China is almost certainly going to invade and conquer Taiwan, the only question is will they also take Hawaii (this can be done)*. And Russia might just invade and retake Alaska and part of the Pacific Northwest.

    The US looks weak, will be at war against its White population at home (inevitably after disaster in Afghanistan) and will invite attack.

    Taiwan will be relatively straightforward for China. They can tolerate casualties, which will be heavy, since they have nearly unlimited manpower. Likely an airborne invasion coupled with just running container ships ashore to create harbor breaks. It will not be an easy cakewalk but it can be done.

    *Hawaii would likely require Taiwan like first strike missiles, coupled with airborne assaults and container ship troop ships along with nukes pointed at the US and the willingness to use them tactically. Recent war games showed the Pacific Fleet basically all sunk within 72 hours and the Chinese owning the Pacific all the way to California. Biden is weak, senile, and his Regency run by weirdos, trannies, women, and homosexuals. None of that does anything but invite attack.

    America is like a Target in a black neighborhood when the Police are defunded. Looted by everyone around. The police just got disbanded.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Thea

    Russia might just invade and retake Alaska and part of the Pacific Northwest.

    One can hope

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Thea

    Thea, Alaska is mineral rich, just offer them Portland and Seattle.

  258. @Harry Baldwin
    In 2012, Mark Steyn wrote,"Six weeks after the last Nato soldier leaves Afghanistan, it will be as if we were never there... We came, we saw, we left no trace. America's longest war will leave nothing behind."

    He now acknowledges that the "six weeks" timeline was overly optimistic. We haven't even finished leaving and it's already as if we were never there, except for leaving tons of materiel for the Taliban and flush Swiss bank accounts for the puppets we put in charge.

    Column is behind paywall, but here it is:
    Mark Steyn: America’s longest war will leave no trace

    By ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER
    March 2, 2012 at 3:25 p.m.

    Say what you like about Afghans, but they’re admirably straightforward. The mobs outside the bases enflamed over the latest Western affront to their exquisitely refined cultural sensitivities couldn’t put it any plainer: “Die, die, foreigners!”

    And foreigners do die. U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. John Loftis, 44, and Army Maj. Robert Marchanti II, 48, lost their lives not on some mission out on the far horizon in wild tribal lands in the dead of night but in the offices of the Afghan Interior Ministry. In a “secure room” that required a numerical code to access. Gunned down by an Afghan “intelligence officer.” Who then departed the scene of the crime unimpeded by any of his colleagues.

    Some news outlets reported the event as a “security breach.” But what exactly was breached? The murderer was by all accounts an employee of the Afghan government, with legitimate rights of access to the building and its secure room, and “liaising” with his U.S. advisers and “mentors” was part of the job. In Afghanistan, foreigners are dying at the hands of the locals who know them best. The Afghans trained by Westerners, paid by Westerners and befriended by Westerners are the ones who have the easiest opportunity to kill them. It is sufficiently non-unusual that the Pentagon, as is the wont with bureaucracies, already has a term for it: “green-on-blue incidents,” in which a uniformed Afghan turns his gun on his Western “allies.”

    So we have a convenient label for what’s happening; what we don’t have is a strategy to stop it – other than more money, more “hearts and minds” for people who seem notably lacking in both, and more bulk orders of the bestselling book “Three Cups Of Tea,” an Oprahfied heap of drivel extensively exposed as an utter fraud but which a delusional Washington insists on sticking in the kit bag of its Afghan-bound officer class.

    Don’t fancy the tea? A U.S. base in southern Afghanistan was recently stricken by food poisoning due to mysteriously high amounts of chlorine in the coffee. As Navy Capt. John Kirby explained, “We don’t know if it was deliberate or something in the cleaning process.”

    Oh, dear. You could chisel that on the tombstones of any number of expeditionary forces over the centuries: “Afghanistan. It’s something in the cleaning process.”

    In the past couple of months, two prominent politicians of different nations visiting their troops on the ground have used the same image to me for Western military bases: crusader forts. Behind the fortifications, a mini-West has been built in a cheerless land: There are Coke machines and Krispy Kreme doughnuts. Safely back within the gates, a man can climb out of the full RoboCop and stop pretending he enjoys three cups of tea with the duplicitous warlords, drug barons and pederasts who pass for Afghanistan’s ruling class. The visiting Western dignitary is cautiously shuttled through outer and inner perimeters, and reminded that, even here, there are areas he would be ill-advised to venture unaccompanied, and tries to banish memories of his first tour all those years ago when aides still twittered optimistically about the possibility of a photo-op at a girls’ schoolroom in Jalalabad or an Internet start-up in Kabul.

    The last crusader fort I visited was Kerak Castle in Jordan a few years ago. It was built in the 1140s, and still impresses today. I doubt there will be any remains of our latter-day fortresses a millennium hence. Six weeks after the last NATO soldier leaves Afghanistan, it will be as if we were never there. Before the election in 2010, the New York Post carried a picture of women registering to vote in Herat, all in identical top-to-toe bright blue burkas, just as they would have looked on Sept. 10, 2001. We came, we saw, we left no trace. America’s longest war will leave nothing behind.
    They can breach our security, but we cannot breach theirs – the vast impregnable psychological fortress in which what passes for the Pushtun mind resides. Someone accidentally burned a Quran your pals had already defaced with covert messages? Die, die, foreigners! The president of the United States issues a groveling and characteristically clueless apology for it? Die, die, foreigners! The American friend who has trained you and hired you and paid you has arrived for a meeting? Die, die, foreigners! And those are the Afghans who know us best. To the upcountry village headmen, the fellows descending from the skies in full body armor are as alien as were the space invaders to Americans in the film “Independence Day.”

    The Rumsfeld strategy that toppled the Taliban over a decade ago was brilliant and innovative: special forces on horseback using GPS to call in unmanned drones. They will analyze it in staff colleges around the world for decades. But what we ought to be analyzing instead is the sad, aimless, bloated, arthritic, transnationalized folly of what followed. The United States is an historical anomaly: the nonimperial superpower. Colonialism is not in its DNA, and in some ways that speaks well for it, and in other ways, in a hostile and fast-changing world of predators and opportunists, it does not. But even nations of an unimperialist bent have roused themselves to great transformative “cleaning processes” within living memory: The Ottawa Citizen’s David Warren wrote this week that he had “conferred the benefit of the doubt” on “the grand bureaucratic project of ‘nation building’… predicated on post-War successes in Germany and Japan.”

    It wasn’t that long ago, was it? Except that, as Warren says, the times are “so utterly changed.” It seems certain that, waging World War II today, the RAF would not carpet-bomb Dresden, and the U.S. would not nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And, lacking the will to inflict massive, total defeat, would we also lack the will to inflict that top-to-toe “cleaning process”?

    Ah, well. Kabul is not Berlin or Tokyo. As long as wily mischief-makers are not using it as a base for global mayhem, who cares? To modify Bismarck, the Hindu Kush is not worth the bones of a single Pennsylvanian grenadier, or “training officer.” Afghanistan is about Afghanistan – if you’re Afghan or Pakistani. But, if you’re Russian or Chinese or Iranian or European, Afghanistan is about America. And too much about the Afghan campaign is too emblematic. As much as any bailed-out corporation, the U.S. is “too big to fail”: In Afghanistan as in the stimulus, it was money no object. The combined Western military/aid presence accounts for 98 percent of that benighted land’s GDP. We carpet-bomb with dollar bills; we have the most advanced technology known to man; we have everything except strategic purpose.

    That “crusader fort” image has a broader symbolism. The post-American world is arising before our eyes. According to the IMF, China will become the dominant economic power by 2016. Putin is on course to return to the Kremlin corner office. In Tehran, the mullahs nuclearize with impunity. New spheres of influence are being established in North Africa, in Central Europe, in the once-reliably “American lake” of the Pacific. Can America itself be a crusader fort? A fortress secure behind the interminable checkpoints of Code Orange TSA bureaucratic torpor while beyond the moat the mob jeers “Die, die, foreigners”? Or, in the end, will it prove as effortlessly penetrable as the “secure room” of the Afghan Interior Ministry?

    Replies: @Bel Riose, @Paperback Writer

    Actually, we built a huge infrastructure and left a lot of weapons that the Taliban may now use. Someone on Twitter wrote that it’s as if the Taliban leased Afghanistan to us for 20 years, kicked us out, and then got aid, cost an interest free.

    But socially, yeah, of course, Steyn was right. No more of this in Afghanistan:

    • Replies: @CCZ
    @Paperback Writer

    https://twitter.com/FaeceSocietatis/status/1427021695379034113

    , @Alden
    @Paperback Writer

    Gay Pride Month is one thing Afghan men welcome. It’s the most homosexual country culture and men in earth. No women professional dancers and strippers. But lots of boy dancers and prostitutes.

    The success of the Afghan fags in repelling every invader for more than 2,000 years might be why the American military is recruiting fags. Maybe they do make good soldiers.

    Replies: @The Real World

  259. @ATBOTL
    Lots of dumb boomer cucks are saying we have to let all the "good" Afghans come to America now.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @John Johnson, @Paperback Writer

    Lots of dumb boomer cucks are saying we have to let all the “good” Afghans come to America now.

    I’d happily support a trade.

    All the boomers that are entering retirement and yet still think that race doesn’t matter (how????????) can be traded for Afghan refugees. I’d even go 10 to 1 for anyone in politics.

  260. @Corvinus
    @epebble

    I’m fairly certain the Bible and Torah have similar passages.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @John Johnson, @epebble

    I’m fairly certain the Bible and Torah have similar passages.

    Do cite the Bible or Torah verses where followers are commanded to kill non-believers and take the women as sex slaves.

    Anyone that thinks these 3 religions are basically the same hasn’t studied them.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @John Johnson

    "Do cite the Bible or Torah verses where followers are commanded to kill non-believers and take the women as sex slaves."


    Deuteronomy 20:1-4: “When you go out to war against your enemies, and see horses and chariots and an army larger than your own, you shall not be afraid of them, for the Lord your God is with you, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt. And when you draw near to the battle, the priest shall come forward and speak to the people and shall say to them, ‘Hear, O Israel, today you are drawing near for battle against your enemies: let not your heart faint. Do not fear or panic or be in dread of them, for the Lord your God is he who goes with you to fight for you against your enemies, to give you the victory’.”

    Numbers 31:1-10 say: The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, “Avenge the Israelite people on the Midianites; then you shall be gathered to your kin.” Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Let men be picked out from among you for a campaign, and let them fall upon Midian to wreak the LORD’s vengeance on Midian. You shall dispatch on the campaign a thousand from every one of the tribes of Israel.” … “The Israelites took the women and children of the Midianites captive, and seized as booty all their beasts, all their herds, and all their wealth. And they destroyed by fire all the towns in which they were settled, and their encampments.”
     
    "Throughout the ancient Mediterranean world, captive women of vanquished peoples were assumed to be the due sexual prerogative of the victors. This law exceptionally seeks to provide for the human rights of the woman who falls into this predicament...the verb 'inah is also sometimes used for rape, and its employment here astringently suggests that the sexual exploitation of a captive woman, even in a legally sanctioned arrangement of concubinage, is equivalent to rape". [The Five Books of Moses: A Translation with Commentary, Robert Alter, Norton: 2004].

    The Book of Revelation is full of imagery of war, genocide, and destruction. It describes the Apocalypse, the last judgment of all the nations and people by God, which includes plagues, war, and economic collapse. Historian Charles B. Strozier states: "The most troubling dimension of 'endism' is its relation to violence...fundamentalists generally believe...transformation can only be accomplished violently, and that the move from our time into the next requires mass death and destruction when '...this earth will be purged in the fires of God's anger, that Jesus will return, and that a new heaven and a new earth will be reborn'".

    "Anyone that thinks these 3 religions are basically the same hasn’t studied them."

    Thanks for your strawman.

    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788

    "Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible," religion historian Philip Jenkins says.

    Jenkins is a professor at Penn State University and author of two books dealing with the issue: the recently published Jesus Wars, and Dark Passages, which has not been published but is already drawing controversy.

    "By the standards of the time, which is the 7th century A.D., the laws of war that are laid down by the Quran are actually reasonably humane," he says. "Then we turn to the Bible, and we actually find something that is for many people a real surprise. There is a specific kind of warfare laid down in the Bible which we can only call genocide."

    Replies: @HA

  261. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/roddreher/status/1426921596820807681?s=20

    Props to Rod. Even the stiff-necked enter into the Kingdom eventually.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    Well PB was right about demographic changes and GOP delusion on race in the mid 90s so I don’t see why they would start listening to him in 2002.

    PB also warned about postmodern thinking/frankfurt school/critical theory and conservatives today seem to think CRT was created last year.

    He was also one of the few that predicted a Trump win.

    What the GOP should do is ignore people that are good at predicting things. Instead they should listen to libertarians and neocons. They have been right about everything. That’s why I invested so heavily in the Kabul Freedom Market Fund. Hang on I need to go check it.

    • Agree: Lurker
  262. @Paperback Writer
    @Harry Baldwin

    Actually, we built a huge infrastructure and left a lot of weapons that the Taliban may now use. Someone on Twitter wrote that it's as if the Taliban leased Afghanistan to us for 20 years, kicked us out, and then got aid, cost an interest free.

    But socially, yeah, of course, Steyn was right. No more of this in Afghanistan:

    https://twitter.com/USEmbassyKabul/status/1400060130243362816?s=20

    Replies: @CCZ, @Alden

    • Thanks: Alden
  263. @Corvinus
    @epebble

    I’m fairly certain the Bible and Torah have similar passages.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @John Johnson, @epebble

    Can you please quote a few passages that suggest or require Jews to kill non-Jews for not accepting Judaism or leaving Judaism (or Christians to kill non-Christians for not accepting Christ or leaving Christianity)?

    Does any other faith, you are aware of, demand that?

  264. @Paperback Writer
    I have an honest question:

    What is more worthless than the current Republican party?

    Serious answers only.

    Thanks.

    Replies: @Yancey Ward, @donut, @J.Ross, @anon, @Che Blutarsky, @Prof. Woland, @fish, @John Johnson, @Midnights, @Mike_from_SGV

    Bibles in a woke leftist church.

  265. @Nick Diaz
    Steve Sailer trying to save face out of sheer patriotic pride when he said: "Did the U.S have the military strength to topple the Taliban? Yes."

    You lost to the Taliban. Get over it. A war is not won by battles, but by achieving your final strategic goal. Toppling the Taliban is irrelevant if your ultimate goal is to make sure that they never hold power again. If you toppled the Taliban government, lost thousands of men, spent billions of Dollars, and in the end that very government is back to power, then what have you accomplished? NOTHING.

    America lost, just like it lost in Vietnam. A Pathetic performance by a coutry that self-titles "The Hyperpower". The excuses are endless, just like American Republican patriotics have endless excuses for making the case that America did not lose in Vietnam:

    "We won every major battle against the Vietcongs."

    "The liberals back home held our military back."

    "We would have vanquished the VK if we stayed there just a couple more years. But the Hippies back home betrayed us"

    It reminds me of sports fans making excuses for why their teams lost. Same ST. The bottom line is that the stated *final* strategic objective of the U.S was to hold Saigon, and Saigon fell. That's the war being lost, despite how many battles you want to brag about that you won. Likewise, after 20 years, thousands of American boys dead, and billions of Dollars spent, the towel heads are back to power. Pointless.

    The U.S Military is probably the most overrated military ever. Given the huge amounts of money that the U.S spends on it, the fact that even Banana Republics can some times give America a fight is beyond laughable. Of course, this is partly due to the fact that huge amounts of that cash goes into the Industriial-military complex, which overcharges the American People hugely. And when it comes to actual Powers, the recent war games demonstrate that America would lose to both Russia and China in a non-nuclear conflict. In fact, against Russia, it wouldn't even be close according to the thousands of sims that were run.

    Replies: @BluEidDvl, @Mike_from_SGV, @MEH 0910

    It has become a woke jobs program, not a war-winning organization.

  266. @Anonymous
    @Whiskey


    The “good” outcome is helicopters from the embassy and planes frantically departing from Kandahar Airport. That is not likely — the bad outcome is the 3,000 Marines are slaughtered as the Taliban using captured equipment destroy the runways of the airport and lay siege and quickly capture most of our people as Pakistan closes its airspace to US air support. Think Dien Bien Phu, only worse.
     
    Anybody who has been reading Steve from the beginning knows that this is an airtight guarantee that there will be no such slaughter.

    Whiskey/Evil Neocon provides the best Fear Porn on isteve.

    Steve provides your daily dose of worry and frustration and then Whiskey comes in with the PCP laced gunpowder and guts prophecies.

    We ought to admit that we like it. (We do.) But I should warn the kiddies here not to fret or agree. Whiskey isn't real and exactly 100% of his predictions never came to pass.

    The only certainly in this life is that Whiskey is wrong.

    Replies: @JMcG

    Who are you?

  267. @John Pepple
    For me it was reading James Michener's Caravans, which I read as a freshman in college about 1970. Somewhere in that book it was declared that Iran was about 50 years ahead of Afghanistan in becoming a modern country. But then came 1979, and those 50 years all vanished as Muslims took over and brought them back to the stone age.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @WJ, @James Speaks, @Thea

    1979 was a reaction against American dominance and Western secular anomie . It was a return to a meaningful and purpose driven way of life where economic progress is not treated as the only god to worship. Iranian women aren’t the ones weighing 300 lbs popping anti-depressants while living all alone.

  268. @Joe Stalin
    https://twitter.com/ebworldwideweb/status/1427028997951541249

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    It’s Groundhog day in Vietnam, over and over. I don’t expect it to end soon. We’ll invade somewhere else and try again.

    Meanwhile he who laughs last…..

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/08/15/russia-says-no-plan-to-evacuate-kabul-embassy-a74793

  269. @AnotherDad
    @Altai2


    At the end of the day the US lost in Afghanistan like it lost in Vietnam because the only way to win was to commit genocide. There was no true army or institution to fight, you were fighting the people themselves, ultimately.
     
    I don't think full on--kill the men, enjoy the women--conquest is quite required, but you have to be pretty nasty. Basically make everyone, the men of every town, every village responsible for keeping their joint "safe". Then lowering the boom if they do not. (Since we won't do the later, you don't get the former.)

    The US--and its people--are not prepared to do what is required to actually win. So we shouldn't be doing it.

    In any case it's their nation, not ours. Killing the leaders who let Osama bin Laden hang there was completely sufficient. Kill them, tell the next guys "don't do that" and move on.

    For a tiny fraction of the cost of this Bush-Obama-Trump boondoggle we could have an essentially impenetrable southern border. Something that is actually the job of the United States government.

    Now with Biden we'll be out of Afghanistan ... and spending the money to support the millions invading us. Peachy.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    The US–and its people–are not prepared to do what is required to actually win.

    This is true in so many ways. It’s why we ended up with both Dreamers and no border wall. And it’s why after a year-and-a-half of lockdowns and mask mandates, people are willing to contemplate no-fly lists but people have not taken the simple but clear measures necessary to reduce their COVID risk profiles.

    Lockdowns and Operation Warpspeed were the COVID equivalent of the mission Charlie Sheen is sent on in Apocalypse Now, meant to protect us from the truth rather than to win.

    As far as Invade-Invite goes, people like Ron Unz probably think Bush-Cheney were Marlon Brando, but in reality they were Robert Duvall, the film’s “moral” alternative to Colonel Kurtz.

    America is a nation of fatties, which is why Afghanistan won’t be the last war the US loses.

  270. @Prester John
    @Menschmaschine

    This comes as no surprise. Read "The Fifty Year Wound" by Derek Laebart. Though it's about the Cold War, it's a primer on how amateurish and flat out stupid the personnel who have running US foreign policy really are.

    Replies: @Clyde

    Thanks on that book. I hope to read it sometime. The author and book look honest and good.

  271. @kaganovitch
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    Fourteen Czech dead, probably more than against Hitler.

    This is absolute nonsense. More than 10 times as many Czechs were massacred in 1 day in Lidice 6/10 1942 as a reprisal for the assassination of Reinhard Heydrich. The total death toll from Heydrich related reprisals was over 1200.

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros

    That’s like saying six million Jews, including all those elderly and typhus victims, have died fighting against Hitler. AFAIK, the only person about to die after the annexation of Prague was Hacha himself.

    I am not blaming anyone – it was similar when Hungary-friendly parts Romania was annexed. I just find it naive that few Czech died in March 1939, defending their homeland in a real, palpable way, while way more died in Afghanistan, on the pretense that, one day, the New Sublime Porte will reciprocate.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    AFAIK, the only person about to die after the annexation of Prague was Hacha himself.

    Perhaps a better analogy would be the thousands of Czech soldiers who fought with the Brits in N. Africa. I don't know of a source that breaks out their casualties specifically, but doubtless more than 14.

  272. An American in Paris.

    I can never get over the fucking emptiness and stupidity of their faces. What would Peachy Carnahan say?

    https://twitter.com/GretchenSPeters/header_photo

  273. @ATBOTL
    Lots of dumb boomer cucks are saying we have to let all the "good" Afghans come to America now.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @John Johnson, @Paperback Writer

    Lots of dumb boomer cucks are saying we have to let all the “good” Afghans come to America now.

    Names, please. Most of the bring ’em here Afghan women are dying accounts I’m reading on Twitter are 40 and under and on the SJW left.

    David French is not a Boomer.

  274. @John Johnson
    @Corvinus

    I’m fairly certain the Bible and Torah have similar passages.

    Do cite the Bible or Torah verses where followers are commanded to kill non-believers and take the women as sex slaves.

    Anyone that thinks these 3 religions are basically the same hasn't studied them.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Do cite the Bible or Torah verses where followers are commanded to kill non-believers and take the women as sex slaves.”

    Deuteronomy 20:1-4: “When you go out to war against your enemies, and see horses and chariots and an army larger than your own, you shall not be afraid of them, for the Lord your God is with you, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt. And when you draw near to the battle, the priest shall come forward and speak to the people and shall say to them, ‘Hear, O Israel, today you are drawing near for battle against your enemies: let not your heart faint. Do not fear or panic or be in dread of them, for the Lord your God is he who goes with you to fight for you against your enemies, to give you the victory’.”

    Numbers 31:1-10 say: The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, “Avenge the Israelite people on the Midianites; then you shall be gathered to your kin.” Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Let men be picked out from among you for a campaign, and let them fall upon Midian to wreak the LORD’s vengeance on Midian. You shall dispatch on the campaign a thousand from every one of the tribes of Israel.” … “The Israelites took the women and children of the Midianites captive, and seized as booty all their beasts, all their herds, and all their wealth. And they destroyed by fire all the towns in which they were settled, and their encampments.”

    “Throughout the ancient Mediterranean world, captive women of vanquished peoples were assumed to be the due sexual prerogative of the victors. This law exceptionally seeks to provide for the human rights of the woman who falls into this predicament…the verb ‘inah is also sometimes used for rape, and its employment here astringently suggests that the sexual exploitation of a captive woman, even in a legally sanctioned arrangement of concubinage, is equivalent to rape”. [The Five Books of Moses: A Translation with Commentary, Robert Alter, Norton: 2004].

    The Book of Revelation is full of imagery of war, genocide, and destruction. It describes the Apocalypse, the last judgment of all the nations and people by God, which includes plagues, war, and economic collapse. Historian Charles B. Strozier states: “The most troubling dimension of ‘endism’ is its relation to violence…fundamentalists generally believe…transformation can only be accomplished violently, and that the move from our time into the next requires mass death and destruction when ‘…this earth will be purged in the fires of God’s anger, that Jesus will return, and that a new heaven and a new earth will be reborn’”.

    “Anyone that thinks these 3 religions are basically the same hasn’t studied them.”

    Thanks for your strawman.

    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788

    “Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible,” religion historian Philip Jenkins says.

    Jenkins is a professor at Penn State University and author of two books dealing with the issue: the recently published Jesus Wars, and Dark Passages, which has not been published but is already drawing controversy.

    “By the standards of the time, which is the 7th century A.D., the laws of war that are laid down by the Quran are actually reasonably humane,” he says. “Then we turn to the Bible, and we actually find something that is for many people a real surprise. There is a specific kind of warfare laid down in the Bible which we can only call genocide.”

    • Replies: @HA
    @Corvinus

    “By the standards of the time, which is the 7th century A.D., the laws of war that are laid down by the Quran are actually reasonably humane,” he says. “Then we turn to the Bible, and we actually find something that is for many people a real surprise. There is a specific kind of warfare laid down in the Bible which we can only call genocide.”

    However "reasonably humane" the Q'uranic laws of war were in the 7th century, they were mandated to last forever, because Muhammad is the "seal of the prophets" and the law he laid down must therefore never be altered. Any efforts to transform jihad into an "internal" struggle have to compete against the fact that the four "rightly-guided" caliphs who got Islam going had no illusions about the fact that jihad is actually much more militaristic. Any time corruption and fecklessness has taken hold in the Islamic world (i.e. pretty much since day one), there has always been a sizable fraction (as much as %10 or more) of true believers saying that the answer to their problems is that they need to go back to doing it exactly the way the Q'uran originally laid it down, word for word. ISIS is just the latest example of that and even in the rest of the Islamic world (including our so-called allies) amputation and crucifixion is STILL a thing because that is what Shariah demands.

    Whereas Christians gave up on Old Testament rules of warfare as early as Augustine, and prior to that, they were hardly in a position to even dream of a time where they might be a military force unto themselves. Cortez and Sherman did their fair share of genocidin' and definitely regarded their Christianity as a good reason why their enemies deserved what they got, but they weren't looking to the story of Midian or Jericho to wage their wars or "bash their babies head against the rocks" or whatever.

    In fact, the reverse is true -- i.e., in the US it was the Christians who were at the forefront of the abolitionist movement, and that was despite the ample justification for slavery that existed in the Old Testament. And in the rest of Christendom the popes and other reformers managed to dismantle slavery without the need of abolitionist movements in the first place.

  275. @epebble
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    Thank you; At first I thought you are joking since I had not known about Gruzia. We call it Georgia in U.S.

    Now, read this joke:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/guam-delivered-on-its-promise-to-gift-rep-marjorie-taylor-greene-cookies-after-she-falsely-said-the-territory-is-a-foreign-country/ar-BB1eCDdI

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros

    This MTG incident is what I am talking about. Her original statement was ” We believe our hard-earned tax dollars should just go for America, not for what? China, Russia, the Middle East, Guam, whatever, wherever.” In that list, the organization G.U.A.M. is a more meaningful inclusion, compared to Guam the island.

    I called it Gruzia specifically to avoid this sort of confusion. Both “Georgia” and “Gruzia” are nowhere near the name they give to their own country.

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    I have another "joke" for you from another Georgia Representative in U.S. Congress about Guam (the Island, not G.U.A.M.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cesSRfXqS1Q

  276. @Reg Cæsar
    @Hunsdon



    I saw a good Russian movie about Afghanistan... I saw it on DVD...
     
    True fact.
     
    Was it a free gift?


    Was the country completely destroyed?


    https://www.espree.com/sites/default/files/2019-10/AfghanHound.png


    Okay, I'll cease and desist. Back to our regular routine.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    If’n you got Amazon prime it’s free w/ads AND subtitles.

    Awesome movie.

    • Replies: @Kjr
    @Paperback Writer

    What's the name of this movie on Amazon?

  277. @Marquis
    @Bill

    I didn’t think there was anyone here dense enough to not know that Bush is a modern day Democrat.

    Replies: @Bill

    Vote for the GOP! They’ve completely changed since W ran as an isolationist and governed as a warmongering lunatic!

  278. @notbe
    @Tom F.

    yes...and remember back then there was a feeling of invincibility to US power

    Replies: @Tom F.

    yes…and remember back then there was a feeling of invincibility to US power

    For some older U.S. citizens, there still is; that is only because they haven’t yet recognized the losing streak, the ‘spoiled identities’ of American, U.S. military, LEO, all now despised by media and liberals because those identities make them feel weak. The young Woke are now actively rooting against U.S. interests, and the looting of the Treasury, abandonment of U.S. border enforcement, and welcoming of millions of young brown males is not going to improve our country.

    Japan has a country full of people who’ve been educated to love their nation, honor their parents, and have a sense of duty. Cultures who teach these things have low crime. Also, Japan is a monoculture; diversity is not a strength in Asian countries. Cultures like ours that now do the opposite, don’t. Culture is everything.

    “A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.” – Will Durant

  279. @Paperback Writer
    @Reg Cæsar

    If'n you got Amazon prime it's free w/ads AND subtitles.

    Awesome movie.

    Replies: @Kjr

    What’s the name of this movie on Amazon?

  280. @Dacian Julien Soros
    @epebble

    This MTG incident is what I am talking about. Her original statement was " We believe our hard-earned tax dollars should just go for America, not for what? China, Russia, the Middle East, Guam, whatever, wherever." In that list, the organization G.U.A.M. is a more meaningful inclusion, compared to Guam the island.

    I called it Gruzia specifically to avoid this sort of confusion. Both "Georgia" and "Gruzia" are nowhere near the name they give to their own country.

    Replies: @epebble

    I have another “joke” for you from another Georgia Representative in U.S. Congress about Guam (the Island, not G.U.A.M.)

  281. @Dacian Julien Soros
    @kaganovitch

    That's like saying six million Jews, including all those elderly and typhus victims, have died fighting against Hitler. AFAIK, the only person about to die after the annexation of Prague was Hacha himself.

    I am not blaming anyone - it was similar when Hungary-friendly parts Romania was annexed. I just find it naive that few Czech died in March 1939, defending their homeland in a real, palpable way, while way more died in Afghanistan, on the pretense that, one day, the New Sublime Porte will reciprocate.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    AFAIK, the only person about to die after the annexation of Prague was Hacha himself.

    Perhaps a better analogy would be the thousands of Czech soldiers who fought with the Brits in N. Africa. I don’t know of a source that breaks out their casualties specifically, but doubtless more than 14.

  282. @Corvinus
    @John Johnson

    "Do cite the Bible or Torah verses where followers are commanded to kill non-believers and take the women as sex slaves."


    Deuteronomy 20:1-4: “When you go out to war against your enemies, and see horses and chariots and an army larger than your own, you shall not be afraid of them, for the Lord your God is with you, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt. And when you draw near to the battle, the priest shall come forward and speak to the people and shall say to them, ‘Hear, O Israel, today you are drawing near for battle against your enemies: let not your heart faint. Do not fear or panic or be in dread of them, for the Lord your God is he who goes with you to fight for you against your enemies, to give you the victory’.”

    Numbers 31:1-10 say: The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, “Avenge the Israelite people on the Midianites; then you shall be gathered to your kin.” Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Let men be picked out from among you for a campaign, and let them fall upon Midian to wreak the LORD’s vengeance on Midian. You shall dispatch on the campaign a thousand from every one of the tribes of Israel.” … “The Israelites took the women and children of the Midianites captive, and seized as booty all their beasts, all their herds, and all their wealth. And they destroyed by fire all the towns in which they were settled, and their encampments.”
     
    "Throughout the ancient Mediterranean world, captive women of vanquished peoples were assumed to be the due sexual prerogative of the victors. This law exceptionally seeks to provide for the human rights of the woman who falls into this predicament...the verb 'inah is also sometimes used for rape, and its employment here astringently suggests that the sexual exploitation of a captive woman, even in a legally sanctioned arrangement of concubinage, is equivalent to rape". [The Five Books of Moses: A Translation with Commentary, Robert Alter, Norton: 2004].

    The Book of Revelation is full of imagery of war, genocide, and destruction. It describes the Apocalypse, the last judgment of all the nations and people by God, which includes plagues, war, and economic collapse. Historian Charles B. Strozier states: "The most troubling dimension of 'endism' is its relation to violence...fundamentalists generally believe...transformation can only be accomplished violently, and that the move from our time into the next requires mass death and destruction when '...this earth will be purged in the fires of God's anger, that Jesus will return, and that a new heaven and a new earth will be reborn'".

    "Anyone that thinks these 3 religions are basically the same hasn’t studied them."

    Thanks for your strawman.

    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788

    "Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible," religion historian Philip Jenkins says.

    Jenkins is a professor at Penn State University and author of two books dealing with the issue: the recently published Jesus Wars, and Dark Passages, which has not been published but is already drawing controversy.

    "By the standards of the time, which is the 7th century A.D., the laws of war that are laid down by the Quran are actually reasonably humane," he says. "Then we turn to the Bible, and we actually find something that is for many people a real surprise. There is a specific kind of warfare laid down in the Bible which we can only call genocide."

    Replies: @HA

    “By the standards of the time, which is the 7th century A.D., the laws of war that are laid down by the Quran are actually reasonably humane,” he says. “Then we turn to the Bible, and we actually find something that is for many people a real surprise. There is a specific kind of warfare laid down in the Bible which we can only call genocide.”

    However “reasonably humane” the Q’uranic laws of war were in the 7th century, they were mandated to last forever, because Muhammad is the “seal of the prophets” and the law he laid down must therefore never be altered. Any efforts to transform jihad into an “internal” struggle have to compete against the fact that the four “rightly-guided” caliphs who got Islam going had no illusions about the fact that jihad is actually much more militaristic. Any time corruption and fecklessness has taken hold in the Islamic world (i.e. pretty much since day one), there has always been a sizable fraction (as much as %10 or more) of true believers saying that the answer to their problems is that they need to go back to doing it exactly the way the Q’uran originally laid it down, word for word. ISIS is just the latest example of that and even in the rest of the Islamic world (including our so-called allies) amputation and crucifixion is STILL a thing because that is what Shariah demands.

    Whereas Christians gave up on Old Testament rules of warfare as early as Augustine, and prior to that, they were hardly in a position to even dream of a time where they might be a military force unto themselves. Cortez and Sherman did their fair share of genocidin’ and definitely regarded their Christianity as a good reason why their enemies deserved what they got, but they weren’t looking to the story of Midian or Jericho to wage their wars or “bash their babies head against the rocks” or whatever.

    In fact, the reverse is true — i.e., in the US it was the Christians who were at the forefront of the abolitionist movement, and that was despite the ample justification for slavery that existed in the Old Testament. And in the rest of Christendom the popes and other reformers managed to dismantle slavery without the need of abolitionist movements in the first place.

  283. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    @Corvinus

    Reg Caesar, In correcting Corvinus, you misquoted the Quran:
    "The Quran upholds the sanctity of life by stating, “The killing of a person for reasons other than legal retaliation or for stopping corruption in the land is as great a sin as murdering all of humankind. However, to save a life would be as great a virtue as to save all of humankind.” (5:32)."
    Take a look at
    https://legacy.quran.com/5/32-33
    and you will see that this is a doctrine that Allah gave to Jews, not to Muslims. Muslims follow the sterner death/crucifixion/double-amputation punishment prescribed in Quran 5:33.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    mark, you have a nice way of correcting posters.

  284. @Thea
    @Whiskey


    Russia might just invade and retake Alaska and part of the Pacific Northwest.
     
    One can hope

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Thea, Alaska is mineral rich, just offer them Portland and Seattle.

  285. @Skyler the Weird
    Soviet Commisars in the Eighties were very surprised that these 8th century herdsmen would not accept the modern glories of Communism and the dictatorship of the proletariat. Why did the Neocons think the Afghanis would accept Liberal Democracy with Gay Pride parades and Intersectional feminism? They just want to pray to Allah then make love to their wives and beat their livestock or vice versa when the mood hits.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Alden

    Afghani men make love to boys age 4 to 12 and force themselves to impregnate their wives 4 or 5 times. It’s the most homosexual country on earth. Has been for centuries. “ Boys are for love women are for babies” is the title of the national anthem of Afghanistan. It’s the only country in earth where the majority of the prostitutes aren’t women but young not even teen boys.

    Another Oogabooga Land best left alone.

  286. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1426914727901470722

    To me, the answer is clear—withdrawal hurts the United States. It empowers our enemies. It grants not just victory but territory and resources to an enemy that’s already proven that it can hit us, hard, at home.

    But there’s also a different question in play, one concerned less with security than with morality. Does the United States have a moral obligation to protect the people of Afghanistan from the darkness that awaits? The answer is a difficult yes. As the Afghan government is proving incapable of upholding its responsibility to protect its own citizens, our concern for the fundamental humanity and worth of the Afghan people demands that we act.

    To understand why, a bit of history and theology is in order.
     

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    There will be no shortage of commentary allocating blame for this dreadful moment, but it’s worth reflecting on the central question of the purpose of our intervention in Afghanistan. The answer to that question will shape your view of all that has followed over the last 20 years: Was the primary purpose of our intervention in Afghanistan to defend the U.S. from terror attacks or was the primary purpose to destroy the specific entities—the Taliban and al Qaeda—most responsible for 9/11?

    This might sound like a distinction without a difference, but in reality it’s a distinction that makes all the difference. If the goal of our intervention was to defend the United States from further 9/11-scale terror attacks, then the Afghanistan mission was a 20-year success. Since 9/11 the United States has been so free of large-scale jihadist attacks that right-wing domestic terrorists have killed more Americans at home than jihadists.

  287. @Unit472
    @SafeNow

    I'm sure Biden will try to pay off the Taliban, its how this corrupt POS rolls, but the Taliban is not a government and Biden has to negotiate with some bearded dude in Doha whose authority over Taliban forces in Kabul probably doesn't exist so who does Biden send the pallet of cash to?

    Right now all that has to happen to leave Biden in a real mess is for a few Taliban to seize a long range howitzer and shell Hamid Karzai airports runway. A M-777 artillery piece can do this from over 20 miles away and the Taliban are probably already that close. If they get closer they can stop incoming and outgoing flights with nothing more than a mortar or even a few heavy machineguns or RPGs.

    Biden is putting the now 6000 man rescue force in a very dangerous position. The A-10's and gunships American ground forces once had at their command are gone now. If the Taliban close that airport how are those US soldiers to be supplied and if the airport is closed what is the 'mission' of those soldiers?

    Replies: @Alden

    So August 13 American troops fled Afghanistan. On August 16 Biden sent more American troops into Afghanistan. Doesn’t make sense to me but I don’t know anything about military planning and strategy.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Alden


    August 13
     
    A Friday, naturally.

    Moments in time, like tears in rain:



    August 14, 1945

    https://athenaposters.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/2400-0820-Times-Square-V-J-Day-Kiss-36x24.jpg

    August 14, 2021

    https://www.out.com/sites/default/files/cadburykiss_yt_cadbury_750x422_05.jpg

    Yay future!
  288. @Anon7
    At least one of the new Taliban leaders, speaking in the presidential palace in Kabul, has stated that he was detained in the Guantanamo Bay camp for several years.

    So, we've got that going for us.

    Replies: @Alden

    Thanks the thing just gets worse and worse. How he must love and respect America so much.

  289. @Paperback Writer
    @Harry Baldwin

    Actually, we built a huge infrastructure and left a lot of weapons that the Taliban may now use. Someone on Twitter wrote that it's as if the Taliban leased Afghanistan to us for 20 years, kicked us out, and then got aid, cost an interest free.

    But socially, yeah, of course, Steyn was right. No more of this in Afghanistan:

    https://twitter.com/USEmbassyKabul/status/1400060130243362816?s=20

    Replies: @CCZ, @Alden

    Gay Pride Month is one thing Afghan men welcome. It’s the most homosexual country culture and men in earth. No women professional dancers and strippers. But lots of boy dancers and prostitutes.

    The success of the Afghan fags in repelling every invader for more than 2,000 years might be why the American military is recruiting fags. Maybe they do make good soldiers.

    • LOL: JMcG
    • Replies: @The Real World
    @Alden


    It’s the most homosexual country culture and men in earth.
     
    Some years ago, I knew an American woman married to a Yemeni. She explained to me, and I believe it is accurate, that Middle Eastern men aren't gay but, they utilize young boys for sexual release. They don't do so to girls because of the ever-prized virginity required at marriage.

    I don't know about Afghan culture but, my Iranian college roommate in the 80s described that virginity was so paramount at marriage in Iran that a woman is expected to bleed on her wedding night. And so that the community will accept the marriage as valid, the blood-stained bed sheet is hung out the window the next day to "prove" she was a virgin. Yes, REALLY.

    We American often apply our narrow understanding of things onto other cultures where, in fact, they don't apply.

    Replies: @JMcG

  290. @Tim
    I went in before BIG ARMY got there--May 2002. I was with 3rd Special Forces Group, and we didn't know what we were doing.

    We used to just bumble around in technicals (pick-up trucks with machine guns on the back) asking if anybody had seen Bid Laden.

    We were all proud, and ready to kill, but Afghanistan is just this enormous waste land dotted with "tiny" villages of 20,000 people (in about eight houses). They all smoked pot and grew opium, and the richer men screwed 12 year old boys.

    It was like being on Mars.

    Round about 2012, when the war was eleven years old, I realized we would never win, and that we really were not trying to.

    About five years ago a friend and I were at Arlington National Cemetary on Memorial Day. We went to the grave of John F. Kennedy--you know, the Eternal Flame grave.

    My buddy says to me, "You know, they're planning a momument for the Afghani and Iraqi wars."

    "Really," I said. "What's it gonna be?"

    "Well, a lot like this one, ya know. An eternal flame."

    "Okay."

    "But above the eternal flame, there will be this bronze statue of a dumptruck."

    "Huh?"

    "Yeah, and the dumptruck is going to just endlessly unload dollar bills into this eternal flame."


    Three days later I had to go to Walter Reed Hospital, where I got into the elevator with a Special Forces captain who had had both his legs blown off. The guy was walkning around on his prostecticts, and was super buff. He was showing me the scars on his arms and was 'super pumped' about being alive. He was truly inspiring, never having a single negative thought. But after I left him, I realized that he had to be that way otherwise he'd kill himself.

    I then thought about the 1st lieutenant I'd met in the PX at FT Belvoir, with a hook for his right hand, and the SF sergeant I'd run into at the post office with a prostetic left leg. And they were all almost fanatically cheerful, like their whole lives depended on them being up beat. I realized that it must be exhausting.

    We could have been out of Afghanistan in three months. We had no reason to be in Iraq.

    We are a lost and confused people, determined to injure ourselves. And the rest of the world is looking on with a mixture of shock and anticipation.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    I have to hand it to you, you write great fiction.

  291. @Alden
    @Paperback Writer

    Gay Pride Month is one thing Afghan men welcome. It’s the most homosexual country culture and men in earth. No women professional dancers and strippers. But lots of boy dancers and prostitutes.

    The success of the Afghan fags in repelling every invader for more than 2,000 years might be why the American military is recruiting fags. Maybe they do make good soldiers.

    Replies: @The Real World

    It’s the most homosexual country culture and men in earth.

    Some years ago, I knew an American woman married to a Yemeni. She explained to me, and I believe it is accurate, that Middle Eastern men aren’t gay but, they utilize young boys for sexual release. They don’t do so to girls because of the ever-prized virginity required at marriage.

    I don’t know about Afghan culture but, my Iranian college roommate in the 80s described that virginity was so paramount at marriage in Iran that a woman is expected to bleed on her wedding night. And so that the community will accept the marriage as valid, the blood-stained bed sheet is hung out the window the next day to “prove” she was a virgin. Yes, REALLY.

    We American often apply our narrow understanding of things onto other cultures where, in fact, they don’t apply.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @The Real World

    There’s a similar proof of virginity scene in the novel, The Secret of Santa Vittoria by Robert Crichton. I suppose many old societies are the same.

  292. @Nick Diaz
    Steve Sailer trying to save face out of sheer patriotic pride when he said: "Did the U.S have the military strength to topple the Taliban? Yes."

    You lost to the Taliban. Get over it. A war is not won by battles, but by achieving your final strategic goal. Toppling the Taliban is irrelevant if your ultimate goal is to make sure that they never hold power again. If you toppled the Taliban government, lost thousands of men, spent billions of Dollars, and in the end that very government is back to power, then what have you accomplished? NOTHING.

    America lost, just like it lost in Vietnam. A Pathetic performance by a coutry that self-titles "The Hyperpower". The excuses are endless, just like American Republican patriotics have endless excuses for making the case that America did not lose in Vietnam:

    "We won every major battle against the Vietcongs."

    "The liberals back home held our military back."

    "We would have vanquished the VK if we stayed there just a couple more years. But the Hippies back home betrayed us"

    It reminds me of sports fans making excuses for why their teams lost. Same ST. The bottom line is that the stated *final* strategic objective of the U.S was to hold Saigon, and Saigon fell. That's the war being lost, despite how many battles you want to brag about that you won. Likewise, after 20 years, thousands of American boys dead, and billions of Dollars spent, the towel heads are back to power. Pointless.

    The U.S Military is probably the most overrated military ever. Given the huge amounts of money that the U.S spends on it, the fact that even Banana Republics can some times give America a fight is beyond laughable. Of course, this is partly due to the fact that huge amounts of that cash goes into the Industriial-military complex, which overcharges the American People hugely. And when it comes to actual Powers, the recent war games demonstrate that America would lose to both Russia and China in a non-nuclear conflict. In fact, against Russia, it wouldn't even be close according to the thousands of sims that were run.

    Replies: @BluEidDvl, @Mike_from_SGV, @MEH 0910

    Steve Sailer trying to save face out of sheer patriotic pride when he said: “Did the U.S have the military strength to topple the Taliban? Yes.”

    Rockford Tyson Nick Diaz, Steve isn’t doing what you claim he’s doing.

  293. @The Real World
    @Alden


    It’s the most homosexual country culture and men in earth.
     
    Some years ago, I knew an American woman married to a Yemeni. She explained to me, and I believe it is accurate, that Middle Eastern men aren't gay but, they utilize young boys for sexual release. They don't do so to girls because of the ever-prized virginity required at marriage.

    I don't know about Afghan culture but, my Iranian college roommate in the 80s described that virginity was so paramount at marriage in Iran that a woman is expected to bleed on her wedding night. And so that the community will accept the marriage as valid, the blood-stained bed sheet is hung out the window the next day to "prove" she was a virgin. Yes, REALLY.

    We American often apply our narrow understanding of things onto other cultures where, in fact, they don't apply.

    Replies: @JMcG

    There’s a similar proof of virginity scene in the novel, The Secret of Santa Vittoria by Robert Crichton. I suppose many old societies are the same.

  294. @Alden
    @Unit472

    So August 13 American troops fled Afghanistan. On August 16 Biden sent more American troops into Afghanistan. Doesn’t make sense to me but I don’t know anything about military planning and strategy.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    August 13

    A Friday, naturally.

    Moments in time, like tears in rain:

    [MORE]

    August 14, 1945

    August 14, 2021

    Yay future!

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