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I don’t know anything about medical care, masks, viruses, or buying from China, but, that said … From Buzzfeed:

Coronavirus Cases Have Surged, But The US Is Refusing To Take The World’s Most Available Masks

The KN95 mask is a Chinese alternative to the scarce N95 mask, but the FDA refuses to allow it into the country.

Ken Bensinger
BuzzFeed News Reporter
Posted on March 29, 2020, at 10:50 p.m. ET

As hospitals around the country desperately seek N95 respirator masks to protect health care workers treating COVID-19 patients, the federal government has blocked imports of what might be the world’s most abundant alternative.

That mask is designed to filter out at least 95% of particles that are 0.3 microns or larger in size — the same measure used for the scarce N95 mask. Like the N95, it fits closely around the nose and mouth, creating a seal that decreases the risk of infection. And the Centers for Disease Control has said it’s as effective as N95, which is certified under US testing standards. But this second type of mask, called the KN95, complies with slightly different norms and is made in factories that have not been certified by the US government.

By law, masks, along with most medical devices, can’t be imported or sold in the United States without the Food and Drug Administration’s say-so. Last week, to ease the national shortfall of protective gear, the FDA issued an emergency authorization for non-N95 respirators that had been certified by five foreign countries as well as the European Union. It conspicuously left the KN95 masks out of the emergency authorization.

The omission was all the more startling because in late February the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that KN95 masks were one of numerous “suitable alternatives” to N95 masks “when supplies are short.”

The FDA did not respond to multiple requests for comment.

A significant majority of all respirator masks, including both the N95 and KN95, are manufactured in China. During the height of that country’s outbreak, China restricted exports of virtually all respirator masks, keeping them for domestic use. As that country’s infection numbers have slowed it has eased those restrictions, but now the US must compete with dozens of other countries desperate to acquire masks. …

Yet without the FDA’s seal of approval, importers are hesitant to order KN95 masks because they worry they’ll get held up at customs. Many hospitals are refusing to accept them, even as free donations, because they fear legal liability should a health care worker get ill while using a nonpermitted device.

Under ordinary circumstances, N95 masks — which are certified by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health — are abundant, available at hardware stores and pharmacies for around $1 apiece and for as little as 35 cents apiece wholesale. But in just two months, the coronavirus pandemic has depleted the world’s supply, creating a gray market that has driven prices for a single mask as high as $12 or more….

According to 3M, the world’s largest mask manufacturer, the KN95 is “equivalent” and “can be expected to function very similar” to the N95 mask. That opinion was echoed on Feb. 29 by the CDC, which said the KN95 is one of seven foreign-certified respirators “expected to provide protection to workers.” …

The two rubber bands on an N95 mask go around the back of your head. On a KN95, the rubber bands go around your ears.

A spokesperson for Customs and Border Patrol, which oversees all imports, said that the agency had recently intercepted various COVID-19-related products coming into the country because they were either counterfeit or not permitted, but could not elaborate on whether any were KN95 masks. …

Vernessa Pollard, an attorney at McDermott Will & Emery whose practice focuses on FDA law and who formerly worked at the agency, dismisses such concerns. She said she was aware of several health care providers that had been inquiring about authorization from the FDA to import KN95 masks, and understood that the agency was reviewing scientific data to determine that the respirators were truly equivalent.

… In the meantime, however, prices for the US-approved N95 masks continue to surge. One survey of offers from China on Friday showed KN95 masks averaged significantly less than half the price — roughly $1.44 compared to $3.60 apiece.

Although some hospitals flat-out reject KN95 masks at any price on advice of their lawyers, people rounding up masks to give to hospitals have found that individual doctors or nurses will often accept the donations, given the dire need. On March 17, the CDC issued guidance saying that health care personnel could use bandanas, scarves, or other “homemade masks” as “a last resort.”

Despite the import restrictions, some KN95 masks are trickling through. The FDA has set up several special email addresses for inquiries about shortages, and several importers said that prior to the EUA issued last week, they had received guidance from agency officials that small shipments of KN95 would likely not be stopped at the border.

You can search for “KN95” at Amazon.com and find dozens of obscure retailers offering 10-packs of masks from roughly $18 to $30, with delivery times ranging from one week to two months. Who knows what the quality is of the factories making them. As somebody once pointed out, “Japanese marketing” is conducting endless in-depth focus groups with American soccer moms to decide where the 11th cupholder in the SUV should go, while “Chinese marketing” is shouting, “Real cheap! You buy now!”

But they exist and they aren’t impossible to get your hands on.

 
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  1. anonymous[254] • Disclaimer says:

    The White House coordinator for procuring medical supplies and equipment is Peter Navarro. He is a hardliner, for instance he wrote Death by China. https://www.amazon.com/Death-China-Confronting-Dragon-paperback/dp/0134319036 I hope his judgment about medical supplies is not clouded by geopolitics.

    • Replies: @JimB
    How can anything manufactured by the Chinese be trusted? It might work. It might not. Manufacturing standards are just words on a page unless they are rigorously followed with exacting quality control tests. And with their workforce still depleted by the pandemic? In any case, Chinese are famous for quality fade. Frankly, they just can’t be bothered with recalling defective shit. It cuts into their profits. You think that all the sudden they feel bad because they infected the world with their poopy virus so now they have boosted their quality control for exported face masks? Especially something they manufacture by the billions. Expect better quality control for Bazooka bubble gum. They have already been caught dumping shoddy Chinese coronavirus test kits on Europe with a 70% failure rate. They are just evil greedy.
  2. But they exist and they aren’t impossible to get your hands on.

    You can get your hands on them, but you are not supposed to touch your face. We have lots of expert advice, but it’s contradictory.

    “I honestly beleave it iz better tew know nothing than two know what ain’t so.” –<a title=”"I” href="I honestly beleave it iz better tew know nothing than two know what ain’t so." —Josh Billings

    Perhaps we should order our masks from the Armenian-Russian-Latvian-Florida Man vlogger Captain Disillusion:

  3. anonymous[202] • Disclaimer says:

    I can understand why they wouldn’t want them around for use by medical professionals. If I’m a nurse stuck in a coronavirus tent, I don’t want to have to worry about chinese tomfuckery.

    They should stamp the masks with a happy face, mark ’em “For Civilian Use” and sell ’em at Costco. General containment of particulate is a lot of the battle. Trump needs to crack some more heads.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
    You can buy US-made N95 masks on Ebay. Jus' sayin'.
  4. anon[827] • Disclaimer says:

    Who knows what the quality is of the factories making them…

    This “far-right lunatic” on Twitter has been all over the coronavirus from the start, broadly accurate (where proveable thus far), and usually weeks if not months ahead of accepted fact. (More or less, anyway, I haven’t bothered checking it all out. I’m just pre-ambling because a lot of people would be prone to dismiss him as a racist/conspiracy theorist/whatever.)

    He reports, here</a and here, that Chinese masks received recently in the Netherlands and Spain haven’t been up to snuff.

    This makes sense: whatever control processes are usually in place in Chinese factories (the same processes that didn’t catch melamine in the baby formula) have probably not been working at their normal effectiveness since about the time a pandemic broke out and the gov’t shut the country down. And to the extent that the Chinese are capable of determining which mask-batches were at par and which weren’t, I’d suppose that they’d keep the good ones for themselves.

    This needn’t be some sinister plot on the part of Mao’s head-in-a-jar, either: how confident are you that some Chinese businessman wouldn’t try to palm off a bunch of dodgy, ineffective masks on some foreign devils? “Oh, so solly, bok gweilo, reprace-a-ment masku on way 4-6 months, tsank-a-u velly much lol”

    • Agree: wren
    • Replies: @Pericles

    (... I’m just pre-ambling because a lot of people would be prone to dismiss him as a racist/conspiracy theorist/whatever.)

     

    We certainly don't want those people around here.
    , @Anonymous
    I'm pretty sure Loki is a fed. He's based in the DC area, and spends most of his time promoting conspiracy theories to rope in the alt-right, not just the standard theories, but the more retarded and fanciful ones, like Atlantis, the Middle Ages being a forgery, etc. But when it comes to foreign policy issues, he always comes around to toeing the official US government line.
    , @Sol
    The oligarchs needs to return manufacturing to the U.S.
  5. Anon[969] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve, I don’t know how much shopping you do on Amazon, but it’s a cesspool of counterfeits, including of some sophisticated products that require expensive tooling and molds. Counterfeiting in China is a very high tech operation. Think Columbian cocaine submarines. I betcha most KM95 masks are fake. Maybe they’re better than nothing for grocery shopping, but “95” masks are uncomfortable and will probably be mostly used by health care workers, who should have real stuff.

    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    Speaking of Amazon, if, in looking at Covid-19, one were to ask the old “Cui bono?“, then the answer would be “A retail company that did not rely on face to face encounters between customer and salesperson. An e-commerce, on-line marketplace.”

    Why haven’t the conspiracy theorists who believe this is all a planned foreclosure on our freedoms explored this angle?
  6. There’s a kind of worker action, I believe it’s called a white strike, where workers follow all of management’s rules and regulations, and do everything stipulated in their contract, and not an iota more. I think I read that it reduces output 50-75%. I can totally believe that #Resisting federal workers are doing the equivalent of a white strike to make Trump look bad so zombie Biden replaces him. I don’t think there is a conspiracy per se, just a bunch of people doing an incompetent job, because that’s how they feel.

    Even if you don’t buy this conspiracy theory, there’s an adage about how no one gets fired for following procedure. People are also less likely to be fired for not making a decision than for making a decision that your boss decides they don’t like in retrospect.

    The FDA and CDC have done a piss poor job, and heads need to roll. Lots of them. Instead, they’ll be rewarded with an increase in funding, and the shitty decision makers will be promoted into pandemic preparedness sinecures.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    The FDA and CDC have done a piss poor job

    Yes, and that's why I don't buy the argument that we have this problem because the White House closed its pandemic office. The pandemic office Obama created in 2016 would most likely be another useless generator of misinformation and onerous regulations.
    , @bomag

    The FDA and CDC have done a piss poor job, and heads need to roll.
     
    Yes, but is there anyone to replace them who isn't already trained and stupefied in political correctness that will repeat the job?
    , @Brian Reilly
    Rob, There are a bunch of govt. employees doing lousy or (much more common) completely ineffectual work by design. Everyone knows this. Why do you suppose we have the distinction between "essential" and "non essential" federal employees designated during Federal govt. "shutdowns" associated with Congressional budget tomfoolery? at least 40% 0f all Federal employees (and a lot at State, county, and local as well) could vanish from the face of the earth tomorrow, and there would be no reason to hire replacements.

    I am not sure that it will much contribute to replacing Trump, but I am sure that the useless workers will continue to draw salaries, benefits, and pensions right up until the time we march on and burn the Capital. It will be quite a while before we get that mad.
  7. anon[526] • Disclaimer says:

    The chinese siphoned real masks from Australia.
    Now they want to sell other dodgy masks back to us?
    Just say noto anything chinese.
    The chinese people, their products and “culture” are crap compared to first world countries.
    Why do you think they’re trying to escape their shithole for a better life in Western civilisation?
    There’s nothing redeemable about them – they have to go back.

    • Replies: @wren
    When I went looking for masks in January in America they were already hard to find and I heard that local Chinese entrepreneurs were buying them all up to sell to China.

    Chinese twitter confirms this.

    https://www.twitter.com/PhdParody/status/1244246149894152194

    This one twitter user has loads and loads of videos of sketchy Chinese factories making sketchy masks using sketchy materials.

    He also has plenty of videos of Chinese people buying up masks in the West to sell in China.

    It is frustrating to see the net full of odd Chinese mask ads, with masks sent from China.

    Hopefully some politician makes a law one day that net ads show the country from where the product will ship on the ad. Sometimes it is almost impossible to tell, even when you click the ad.
  8. How is sterility guaranteed for any of these things? I’ve no idea. Are they delivered in sealed packaging? And how are we ever going to wean ourselves off of Cheap Chinese Crap? I’ve a feeling we won’t. They will own us–even more than they do now–and this current assault will be one of many.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    I sand wood and spray paint and so have bought lots of masks over the last 30 years. Often, a Chinese mask fresh out of the packaging smells peculiar and the smell doesn’t go away after a few minutes use. It’s IN the mask material itself.

    Now I only buy 3M, more expensive but stouter and fresher. I’m not getting paid for saying this.
    , @Rob

    And how are we ever going to wean ourselves off of Cheap Chinese Crap?
     
    I don’t know how this specific crisis will resolve, but I hope we get some decent changes to education, business, society, government, and the biomedical complex. I’ll limit this to education, and use a ‘More’ tag to show people how it’s done.

    Greg Cochran says a big problem with this crisis is that people in business, government, journalism, and the medical establishment aren’t smart enough to do their jobs. This needs to change. Let’s assume affirmative action is untouchable. There’s a big difference between having ‘enough’ non-whites in fancy jobs when 10% of the population is non-white and when 50% of the population is non-white. Society has had to pretend that intelligence is not as important as ‘grit’ and the proper average skin tone of the people in question.

    There are some fields where this is not a big problem. Very few blacks go into cosmology or astrophysics. The ones that do, though, usually have careers in outreach to their brand of non-white, encouraging them to go into the field, so that they can have productive careers encouraging non-whites to go into that field and have productive careers encouraging non-whites to go into the field...this is a perpetual motion machine.

    That’s an inefficient, though tolerable deadweight loss when NAMs are 5% of the field. When non-whites are 50% of a profession, though, they clog positions that need to be held by competent people. In professional schools leading to fancy jobs, the minority percent climbs by a lot. I couldn’t find Ivy League medical school demographics in a quick google search, so let’s take law school. Yale law school class of 2022 is 49% nonwhite. Harvard’s is 45% nonwhite. I couldn’t quickly determine if Asians were minority, but I assume they are. In an earlier thread Jack D said about 1% of Harvard/Yale law students would be black under merit-based admissions. Let’s be generous and assume half of the nonwhites are Asians, and that still leaves the lower races about 15 fold over-represented. It also goes without saying that Asians aren’t the best at creative problem-solving.

    Overall, about 20% of medical school entrants are Asian, 6% are Latinao, and 10% are black. Let’s be generous and assume blacks are as qualified for med school as they are for law school. Though I read somewhere that the average black MCAT score was at the 6th percentile for whites. In order to justify having dumb NAMs admitted and graduated (note I didn’t say educated!), we haven’t been choosing the brightest white applicants. We’ve admitted the whites who looked and sounded good in interviews and had lots of extracurriculars. Oh, and wrote the most ‘progressive’ essays. They need good grades, so they take the easiest courses they can outside the required courses, which are mostly freshman and sophomore classes.

    That needs to change. We need to ensure that the merit-based half of undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools is as meritorious as possible. That pretty much means smart. No other trait is as important and accurately measurable. Sure, conscientiousness matters, but that matures later in men than in women, and Asian tiger-parenting and conformity are hard to distinguish from conscientiousness, so I’d prize smart over everything else. Grades are hard to compare across schools and even professors in a school, so test scores give a more even playing field.

    In my most negative moments, I think we take so many physicians from overseas because we can’t increase med school enrollment without either making the demographics worse (better), or admitting blacks and Latinks who are profoundly retarded.

    The push coming from the other end, to increase the representation of nonwhites, especially Hispanics, to their share of the population in that age bracket will be enormous. If we had a pro-white political party, we’d at least have a shot at improving merit-based admissions for white males.

    Maybe all graduate programs need to start considering the quantitative section of the GRE in addition to verbal. Certainly journalists would be better if they had some math sense. Then they would finally hit Unz’s ‘do you even exponential, bro’ standard. A man can dream. If I were creating a test from whole cloth, it would include a visuospatial component, too. Even though that would advantage Asians, more abilities tested means a more accurate IQ test.
    , @Rob
    On improving business, in my wet dreams, the bailout of corporations would have come in the form of individual investment accounts for each American that could only be used to buy stock/bonds. It would have the advantage of creating broad-based investment in capital. It would also dilute current shareholders, and taking a bailout should hurt. Dilute current shareholders 50%, and I guarantee that the new owners would be a lot more willing to keep cash in the company for any unforeseen downturn. Republicans want Social Security invested in the market, and buying now, while stock prices are at a recent low, would be a much more cost-effective buy-in than purchasing already existing shares, which would really have the effect

    Wet dream time still, it would have come with some strings. Like reshoring manufacturing, not firing workers during the socially distant crisis, and no share buybacks or dividends until any debt is paid back. As things stand, is there anything in the stimulus bill that would prevent companies from taking the bailout, paying half out to shareholders in a special dividend, and then firing their workforce, and come looking for another bailout?

    I hope the government and business class learn that having essential, even vital, goods manufactured by contracted businesses in a strategic rival like China is insane. We should be manufacturing all our drugs.

    I really hope corporations see the business case for having multiple suppliers, even if some are more expensive than others, because that gives greater resiliency when something goes wrong. I fear the stimulus bill will be rewarding and stimulating a lot of bad behavior.
  9. anon[594] • Disclaimer says:

    We are going to be wearing these soon enough. Masks, I mean.

    If you are running the CDC, you care about the rate of doubling. At the beginning, without a material population immunity, the doubling from 10 to 20 is roughly the equivalent of going from 100 to 200 or 1000 to 2000.

    But if you are a concerned as an uninfected individual, the percentage of infected individuals matters a lot. If it is .001 or even .01, your odds of being exposed by individual interactions are low. If it is .05 or .10, exposure to a random person is getting getting much more risky.

    The point being that the value of wearing a mask increases fairly linearly with percent infected. So, as we decide to restart the economy and ride the beast, older, uninfected people will be incentivized to wear a mask.

  10. Anonymous[974] • Disclaimer says:

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    https://twitter.com/neovictorian23/status/1244646633616236544
  11. buzzfeed
    I don’t know about this …
    the US is refusing to take advantage of a necessary medical item
    Sounds like standard “Trump ate the sun” nonsense, I continue to not know about this …
    the KN95 is a Chinese —

  12. Too many of the people complaining about how slow the FDA is now, will be the first to bitch if a problem develops problems from the FDA “moving too fast”.
    It’s like RU-486, a lot of vagina-equipped columnists were in favor of FDA bypassing the normal approval process because the Europeans had approved it. Other medications though, the Europeans weren’t to be trusted.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Sure, the FDA has to be like Goldilocks - their regulations have to be not too hard and not too soft - just right. BUT, in an emergency period like now, this doesn't work well. If your choice is either wearing an N95 made in an FDA inspected facility (preferably one in the US*) or a shady Chinese KN95, then it's no contest - go for the real N95. But, in an extreme emergency where hospital workers are not getting PPE, a KN95 is better than literally nothing.

    Right now the standard should be "better than nothing". As the situation normalizes they can tighten the screws, but not now. In an emergency , you really have to change your approach to regulations, which in normal times are aimed at keeping everyone safe to the maximum extent possible. People are dying already anyway, so it's no longer a question of keeping everyone safe (too late for that now), it's a question of which path is going to kill FEWER people. But bureaucrats are not known for their flexibility.

    *FDA inspection of overseas facilities is very lax - one of the ways that globalization has not been good. Putting aside labor costs, one of the ways that overseas production has been advantaged is that in your US factory, all sorts of inspectors are going to be showing up and harassing you and making your life difficult - not just the FDA, but OSHA and the EPA and DOL and state and local inspectors and whatnot. But at the subcontractor's plant in Lucknow or Wuhan, there is little of that and all the inspectors are suitably bribed anyway. So even if the labor costs were the same (which they aren't) you'd still be better off overseas far from the prying eyes of our alphabet soup of government agencies.

  13. @anon
    The chinese siphoned real masks from Australia.
    Now they want to sell other dodgy masks back to us?
    Just say noto anything chinese.
    The chinese people, their products and "culture" are crap compared to first world countries.
    Why do you think they're trying to escape their shithole for a better life in Western civilisation?
    There's nothing redeemable about them - they have to go back.

    When I went looking for masks in January in America they were already hard to find and I heard that local Chinese entrepreneurs were buying them all up to sell to China.

    Chinese twitter confirms this.

    This one twitter user has loads and loads of videos of sketchy Chinese factories making sketchy masks using sketchy materials.

    He also has plenty of videos of Chinese people buying up masks in the West to sell in China.

    It is frustrating to see the net full of odd Chinese mask ads, with masks sent from China.

    Hopefully some politician makes a law one day that net ads show the country from where the product will ship on the ad. Sometimes it is almost impossible to tell, even when you click the ad.

    • Replies: @wren
    https://www.twitter.com/PhdParody/status/1244447950199234560

    https://www.twitter.com/PhdParody/status/1244122408241545216

    https://www.twitter.com/PhdParody/status/1242995149732548611

    https://www.twitter.com/PhdParody/status/1244496543253770240

    OTOH, I don't know what country this is:

    https://www.twitter.com/PhdParody/status/1244244378190823424
  14. @anon

    Who knows what the quality is of the factories making them...
     
    This "far-right lunatic" on Twitter has been all over the coronavirus from the start, broadly accurate (where proveable thus far), and usually weeks if not months ahead of accepted fact. (More or less, anyway, I haven't bothered checking it all out. I'm just pre-ambling because a lot of people would be prone to dismiss him as a racist/conspiracy theorist/whatever.)

    He reports, here</a and here, that Chinese masks received recently in the Netherlands and Spain haven't been up to snuff.

    This makes sense: whatever control processes are usually in place in Chinese factories (the same processes that didn't catch melamine in the baby formula) have probably not been working at their normal effectiveness since about the time a pandemic broke out and the gov't shut the country down. And to the extent that the Chinese are capable of determining which mask-batches were at par and which weren't, I'd suppose that they'd keep the good ones for themselves.

    This needn't be some sinister plot on the part of Mao's head-in-a-jar, either: how confident are you that some Chinese businessman wouldn't try to palm off a bunch of dodgy, ineffective masks on some foreign devils? "Oh, so solly, bok gweilo, reprace-a-ment masku on way 4-6 months, tsank-a-u velly much lol"

    (… I’m just pre-ambling because a lot of people would be prone to dismiss him as a racist/conspiracy theorist/whatever.)

    We certainly don’t want those people around here.

  15. @wren
    When I went looking for masks in January in America they were already hard to find and I heard that local Chinese entrepreneurs were buying them all up to sell to China.

    Chinese twitter confirms this.

    https://www.twitter.com/PhdParody/status/1244246149894152194

    This one twitter user has loads and loads of videos of sketchy Chinese factories making sketchy masks using sketchy materials.

    He also has plenty of videos of Chinese people buying up masks in the West to sell in China.

    It is frustrating to see the net full of odd Chinese mask ads, with masks sent from China.

    Hopefully some politician makes a law one day that net ads show the country from where the product will ship on the ad. Sometimes it is almost impossible to tell, even when you click the ad.

    OTOH, I don’t know what country this is:

  16. @Rob
    There’s a kind of worker action, I believe it’s called a white strike, where workers follow all of management’s rules and regulations, and do everything stipulated in their contract, and not an iota more. I think I read that it reduces output 50-75%. I can totally believe that #Resisting federal workers are doing the equivalent of a white strike to make Trump look bad so zombie Biden replaces him. I don’t think there is a conspiracy per se, just a bunch of people doing an incompetent job, because that’s how they feel.

    Even if you don’t buy this conspiracy theory, there’s an adage about how no one gets fired for following procedure. People are also less likely to be fired for not making a decision than for making a decision that your boss decides they don’t like in retrospect.

    The FDA and CDC have done a piss poor job, and heads need to roll. Lots of them. Instead, they’ll be rewarded with an increase in funding, and the shitty decision makers will be promoted into pandemic preparedness sinecures.

    The FDA and CDC have done a piss poor job

    Yes, and that’s why I don’t buy the argument that we have this problem because the White House closed its pandemic office. The pandemic office Obama created in 2016 would most likely be another useless generator of misinformation and onerous regulations.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
  17. chinese mask quality control.

    • Replies: @By-tor
    Right. It's anonymous and on the internetz so it must be true. Was the spoof filmed in Taiwan, Hong Kong, or Los Angeles? Looks like the work space is closed or everyone but this clown is on break.
  18. Seriously, what´s this fuss all about?

    Non-essential personnel untrained in their use are not going to get jack protection from N95s anyway – so why not reserve them for the pros?
    (exceptionalism, I know)
    Besides they are terribly uncomfortable – and as the only civilian benefit of masks is to reduce shedding, discipline matters far more i.e. I´d feel better among Japanese wearing almost any description of jury-rigged snot brake than among shucking and jiving Murkans in level 4 suits.

    Surgical masks will do nicely.

  19. Isn’t anybody worried that the actual virus might be on Chinese-made masks? Lasts a while on surfaces, right?What about the boxes they’re packed into, even if you can trust that the masks themselves are sterile?

    • Agree: Red Pill Angel
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Coronavirus lasts for no more than 24 hours on cardboard and other absorbent surfaces, so even if the masks were not sterile to begin with, by the time they reach you they will no longer contain any viable virus.

    If you are really worried, you could sterilize them by putting them in a 160F oven for 30 minutes (or under UV light).

    Viruses are actually rather delicate since they have these little probes on the outside that have to fit into cellular receptors in order to cause infection. It doesn't take that much energy to disrupt this delicate structure - think of something like a dandelion seed head but on a very tiny microscopic scale.
  20. President of Belarus declares Covid a social construct. No masks needed.

    “There are no viruses here. Did you see any of them flying around? I don’t see them too.”

    after playing ice hockey in front of a packed stadium in the country’s capital, Minsk, Lukashenko said the “fridge” like area was a ‘real anti-viral cure.”

    Neither Lukashenko nor the supporters in the stands appeared to make any attempt to adhere to World Health Organization (WHO) guidelines for social distancing, embracing and patting each other on the back.

    While much of Europe remains in lockdown, Belarus is yet to implement restrictions on mass gatherings.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/alexander-lukashenko-better-to-die-standing-than-to-live-on-your-knees-says-belarus-president-at-ice-hockey-match/ar-BB11UC9D

  21. The masks are shit, China is shit, I guess this had to happen before everybody figured this out.

    NBC praised China for its medical supplies. Turns out, Chinese COVID-19 tests don’t work, masks are defective.

    https://www.theblaze.com/news/nbc-praised-china-for-its-medical-supplies-turns-out-chinese-tests-dont-work-masks-are-defective

  22. If only someone could get Tucker Carlson to drive over to Trump’s place and explain things. Wait! South Florida is on total lockdown? We are doomed!

    FWIW, it took them nearly 50 years to get over their phobia for Kinder Surprise Eggs….

  23. Speaking of masks…

    A Brooklyn man claiming to be infected with the coronavirus coughed on FBI agents who were investigating him for hoarding medical supplies, the US Attorney’s Office said Monday.

    Baruch Feldheim, 43, is facing charges of assault and making false statements to the feds on Sunday outside his Borough Park home where he allegedly peddled and stored massive amounts of N95 respirator masks, federal officials said.

    Feldheim is also accused of price-gouging. On March 18, he’s suspected of selling a New Jersey doctor about 1,000 of the masks for $12,000, a markup of roughly 700 percent, authorities said.

    Baruch Feldheim!

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    In the aftermath of all this I hope (though doubt) there is a deep examination of all the powers that various elected officials and bureaucrats simply assumed.

    FBI agents who were investigating him for hoarding medical supplies
     
    What is "hoarding", how is it defined, and what federal law does it violate? What law prohibits "price gouging"?
    , @Jack D
    It's ironic that the FBI's approach to the mask shortage is the same approach that the NKVD would have used on kulaks who were "hoarding" grain. Baruch Feldheim is a wrecker! He must be punished.

    The best way to end the mask shortage (according to the FBI) is to punish anyone who tries to sell you one at a market clearing price. Supply and demand have greatly shifted, but the price has to remain the same or you are "gouging".

    When they couldn't think of anything else to charge him with, they charged him with "lying to a Federal agent". This is a great all-purpose charge. Normally you have to be under oath in order to be guilty of perjury, but when speaking to Federal agents, no oath necessary.
    , @V. Hickel
    wow i can't believe a Feldheim exploiting victims of a tragedy.
    , @Anon
    $12 per mask doesn't seem that egregious, especially since the masks went to a doctor who presumably needs them more than most people and is likely to share them with other doctors, health care workers, family and acquaintances that need them more than most people. And the doctor is also going to be able to afford that markup.

    If you don't have some degree of price gouging, you just have the situation we had with toilet paper, where people cleared the shelves of cheap toilet paper and keep an excess supply in their garages indefinitely and off the market. You have hoarding and shortages all the same, with even less supply entering the market.

    There are no doubt people out there who bought up a ton of masks, more than they ever would use personally, with no intention of selling them for big markups but just out of fear or a hoarding instinct. They're just sitting idly in their closets and garages. It'd be better if that supply did enter the market, even at a markup.
  24. @Rob
    There’s a kind of worker action, I believe it’s called a white strike, where workers follow all of management’s rules and regulations, and do everything stipulated in their contract, and not an iota more. I think I read that it reduces output 50-75%. I can totally believe that #Resisting federal workers are doing the equivalent of a white strike to make Trump look bad so zombie Biden replaces him. I don’t think there is a conspiracy per se, just a bunch of people doing an incompetent job, because that’s how they feel.

    Even if you don’t buy this conspiracy theory, there’s an adage about how no one gets fired for following procedure. People are also less likely to be fired for not making a decision than for making a decision that your boss decides they don’t like in retrospect.

    The FDA and CDC have done a piss poor job, and heads need to roll. Lots of them. Instead, they’ll be rewarded with an increase in funding, and the shitty decision makers will be promoted into pandemic preparedness sinecures.

    The FDA and CDC have done a piss poor job, and heads need to roll.

    Yes, but is there anyone to replace them who isn’t already trained and stupefied in political correctness that will repeat the job?

  25. The Netherlands has recalled 600,000 coronavirus face masks it imported from China after discovering they were faulty

    https://news.yahoo.com/netherlands-recalled-600-000-coronavirus-090511130.html

  26. Guardian horrified that ICE personnel are wearing N95 masks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/31/ice-raids-coronavirus-n95-masks

    “If we want to survive, we must stop Ice raids, detention and deportation”

    In the UK, the usual suspects argue we should release all illegal immigrants in detention.

  27. I’ve noticed that more people at Meijers (like Walmart) have been wearing homemade masks. To me, this demonstrates that more people are adopting an independent attitude, as opposed to going the Socialist route and waiting for instructions (and masks) from Washington.

    Make your own Magic(TM) mask.

  28. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/HirokoTabuchi/status/1244681506926231552

    https://twitter.com/HirokoTabuchi/status/1244687495142539266

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
  29. @Rob
    There’s a kind of worker action, I believe it’s called a white strike, where workers follow all of management’s rules and regulations, and do everything stipulated in their contract, and not an iota more. I think I read that it reduces output 50-75%. I can totally believe that #Resisting federal workers are doing the equivalent of a white strike to make Trump look bad so zombie Biden replaces him. I don’t think there is a conspiracy per se, just a bunch of people doing an incompetent job, because that’s how they feel.

    Even if you don’t buy this conspiracy theory, there’s an adage about how no one gets fired for following procedure. People are also less likely to be fired for not making a decision than for making a decision that your boss decides they don’t like in retrospect.

    The FDA and CDC have done a piss poor job, and heads need to roll. Lots of them. Instead, they’ll be rewarded with an increase in funding, and the shitty decision makers will be promoted into pandemic preparedness sinecures.

    Rob, There are a bunch of govt. employees doing lousy or (much more common) completely ineffectual work by design. Everyone knows this. Why do you suppose we have the distinction between “essential” and “non essential” federal employees designated during Federal govt. “shutdowns” associated with Congressional budget tomfoolery? at least 40% 0f all Federal employees (and a lot at State, county, and local as well) could vanish from the face of the earth tomorrow, and there would be no reason to hire replacements.

    I am not sure that it will much contribute to replacing Trump, but I am sure that the useless workers will continue to draw salaries, benefits, and pensions right up until the time we march on and burn the Capital. It will be quite a while before we get that mad.

  30. @Anon
    Steve, I don't know how much shopping you do on Amazon, but it's a cesspool of counterfeits, including of some sophisticated products that require expensive tooling and molds. Counterfeiting in China is a very high tech operation. Think Columbian cocaine submarines. I betcha most KM95 masks are fake. Maybe they're better than nothing for grocery shopping, but "95" masks are uncomfortable and will probably be mostly used by health care workers, who should have real stuff.

    Speaking of Amazon, if, in looking at Covid-19, one were to ask the old “Cui bono?“, then the answer would be “A retail company that did not rely on face to face encounters between customer and salesperson. An e-commerce, on-line marketplace.”

    Why haven’t the conspiracy theorists who believe this is all a planned foreclosure on our freedoms explored this angle?

  31. @Mr McKenna
    How is sterility guaranteed for any of these things? I've no idea. Are they delivered in sealed packaging? And how are we ever going to wean ourselves off of Cheap Chinese Crap? I've a feeling we won't. They will own us--even more than they do now--and this current assault will be one of many.

    I sand wood and spray paint and so have bought lots of masks over the last 30 years. Often, a Chinese mask fresh out of the packaging smells peculiar and the smell doesn’t go away after a few minutes use. It’s IN the mask material itself.

    Now I only buy 3M, more expensive but stouter and fresher. I’m not getting paid for saying this.

  32. There have been reports from Czechia, Spain, and The Netherlands of dangerously ineffective Chinese medical supplies having been received.

    Of course, that doesn’t alter the possibility that the FDA has been completely taken over by enemies of the US population. That is surly a normal fate for any fedgov bureaucracy?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Not just Chinese, but also Russian medical aid to Europe is being called "faulty" and "useless".

    There is currently a propaganda war being waged between the US and China (and to a lesser extent, Russia) over the response to this outbreak.

    "Chinese, Russian Corona Aid Is 80% Useless (Says CIA?)"

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/chinese-russian-corona-aid-is-80-useless-says-cia/
    , @NOTA
    The FDA is a stumbling block to effective COVID-19 response AND Chinese quality control is lousy--no reason both can't be true.
  33. @anonymous
    The White House coordinator for procuring medical supplies and equipment is Peter Navarro. He is a hardliner, for instance he wrote Death by China. https://www.amazon.com/Death-China-Confronting-Dragon-paperback/dp/0134319036 I hope his judgment about medical supplies is not clouded by geopolitics.

    How can anything manufactured by the Chinese be trusted? It might work. It might not. Manufacturing standards are just words on a page unless they are rigorously followed with exacting quality control tests. And with their workforce still depleted by the pandemic? In any case, Chinese are famous for quality fade. Frankly, they just can’t be bothered with recalling defective shit. It cuts into their profits. You think that all the sudden they feel bad because they infected the world with their poopy virus so now they have boosted their quality control for exported face masks? Especially something they manufacture by the billions. Expect better quality control for Bazooka bubble gum. They have already been caught dumping shoddy Chinese coronavirus test kits on Europe with a 70% failure rate. They are just evil greedy.

  34. Yet without the FDA’s seal of approval, importers are hesitant to order KN95 masks because they worry they’ll get held up at customs.

    So no government agency has taken any steps to prevent this product from entering the country. It was left off a list. Maybe that’s significant, maybe it isn’t. But from this, the “US” doesn’t seem to be refusing to take it.

  35. @Mr McKenna
    How is sterility guaranteed for any of these things? I've no idea. Are they delivered in sealed packaging? And how are we ever going to wean ourselves off of Cheap Chinese Crap? I've a feeling we won't. They will own us--even more than they do now--and this current assault will be one of many.

    And how are we ever going to wean ourselves off of Cheap Chinese Crap?

    I don’t know how this specific crisis will resolve, but I hope we get some decent changes to education, business, society, government, and the biomedical complex. I’ll limit this to education, and use a ‘More’ tag to show people how it’s done.

    [MORE]

    Greg Cochran says a big problem with this crisis is that people in business, government, journalism, and the medical establishment aren’t smart enough to do their jobs. This needs to change. Let’s assume affirmative action is untouchable. There’s a big difference between having ‘enough’ non-whites in fancy jobs when 10% of the population is non-white and when 50% of the population is non-white. Society has had to pretend that intelligence is not as important as ‘grit’ and the proper average skin tone of the people in question.

    There are some fields where this is not a big problem. Very few blacks go into cosmology or astrophysics. The ones that do, though, usually have careers in outreach to their brand of non-white, encouraging them to go into the field, so that they can have productive careers encouraging non-whites to go into that field and have productive careers encouraging non-whites to go into the field…this is a perpetual motion machine.

    That’s an inefficient, though tolerable deadweight loss when NAMs are 5% of the field. When non-whites are 50% of a profession, though, they clog positions that need to be held by competent people. In professional schools leading to fancy jobs, the minority percent climbs by a lot. I couldn’t find Ivy League medical school demographics in a quick google search, so let’s take law school. Yale law school class of 2022 is 49% nonwhite. Harvard’s is 45% nonwhite. I couldn’t quickly determine if Asians were minority, but I assume they are. In an earlier thread Jack D said about 1% of Harvard/Yale law students would be black under merit-based admissions. Let’s be generous and assume half of the nonwhites are Asians, and that still leaves the lower races about 15 fold over-represented. It also goes without saying that Asians aren’t the best at creative problem-solving.

    Overall, about 20% of medical school entrants are Asian, 6% are Latinao, and 10% are black. Let’s be generous and assume blacks are as qualified for med school as they are for law school. Though I read somewhere that the average black MCAT score was at the 6th percentile for whites. In order to justify having dumb NAMs admitted and graduated (note I didn’t say educated!), we haven’t been choosing the brightest white applicants. We’ve admitted the whites who looked and sounded good in interviews and had lots of extracurriculars. Oh, and wrote the most ‘progressive’ essays. They need good grades, so they take the easiest courses they can outside the required courses, which are mostly freshman and sophomore classes.

    That needs to change. We need to ensure that the merit-based half of undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools is as meritorious as possible. That pretty much means smart. No other trait is as important and accurately measurable. Sure, conscientiousness matters, but that matures later in men than in women, and Asian tiger-parenting and conformity are hard to distinguish from conscientiousness, so I’d prize smart over everything else. Grades are hard to compare across schools and even professors in a school, so test scores give a more even playing field.

    In my most negative moments, I think we take so many physicians from overseas because we can’t increase med school enrollment without either making the demographics worse (better), or admitting blacks and Latinks who are profoundly retarded.

    The push coming from the other end, to increase the representation of nonwhites, especially Hispanics, to their share of the population in that age bracket will be enormous. If we had a pro-white political party, we’d at least have a shot at improving merit-based admissions for white males.

    Maybe all graduate programs need to start considering the quantitative section of the GRE in addition to verbal. Certainly journalists would be better if they had some math sense. Then they would finally hit Unz’s ‘do you even exponential, bro’ standard. A man can dream. If I were creating a test from whole cloth, it would include a visuospatial component, too. Even though that would advantage Asians, more abilities tested means a more accurate IQ test.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    It also goes without saying that Asians aren’t the best at creative problem-solving.
     
    You can't have your cake and eat it too. The same academic testing/ IQ criteria that gets rid of underqualified blacks and Latinxes get you more Asians instead.

    Here is the no-affirmative action US Math Olympiad team:

    https://alphastar.academy/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/imo.png


    The short answer is that we are running out of white people, especially white people who are willing to do the many years of hard work necessary to excel in stem fields.
  36. @Mr McKenna
    How is sterility guaranteed for any of these things? I've no idea. Are they delivered in sealed packaging? And how are we ever going to wean ourselves off of Cheap Chinese Crap? I've a feeling we won't. They will own us--even more than they do now--and this current assault will be one of many.

    On improving business, in my wet dreams, the bailout of corporations would have come in the form of individual investment accounts for each American that could only be used to buy stock/bonds. It would have the advantage of creating broad-based investment in capital. It would also dilute current shareholders, and taking a bailout should hurt. Dilute current shareholders 50%, and I guarantee that the new owners would be a lot more willing to keep cash in the company for any unforeseen downturn. Republicans want Social Security invested in the market, and buying now, while stock prices are at a recent low, would be a much more cost-effective buy-in than purchasing already existing shares, which would really have the effect

    Wet dream time still, it would have come with some strings. Like reshoring manufacturing, not firing workers during the socially distant crisis, and no share buybacks or dividends until any debt is paid back. As things stand, is there anything in the stimulus bill that would prevent companies from taking the bailout, paying half out to shareholders in a special dividend, and then firing their workforce, and come looking for another bailout?

    I hope the government and business class learn that having essential, even vital, goods manufactured by contracted businesses in a strategic rival like China is insane. We should be manufacturing all our drugs.

    I really hope corporations see the business case for having multiple suppliers, even if some are more expensive than others, because that gives greater resiliency when something goes wrong. I fear the stimulus bill will be rewarding and stimulating a lot of bad behavior.

  37. @Cindy
    Isn't anybody worried that the actual virus might be on Chinese-made masks? Lasts a while on surfaces, right?What about the boxes they're packed into, even if you can trust that the masks themselves are sterile?

    Coronavirus lasts for no more than 24 hours on cardboard and other absorbent surfaces, so even if the masks were not sterile to begin with, by the time they reach you they will no longer contain any viable virus.

    If you are really worried, you could sterilize them by putting them in a 160F oven for 30 minutes (or under UV light).

    Viruses are actually rather delicate since they have these little probes on the outside that have to fit into cellular receptors in order to cause infection. It doesn’t take that much energy to disrupt this delicate structure – think of something like a dandelion seed head but on a very tiny microscopic scale.

    • Agree: Dmitry
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    FYI, the research that the 160 degree/30 min or UV recommendation is based on was research on the mask's viability after treatment, not on disinfection per se. I'm guessing it disinfects, but no research actually showing that.
  38. I’d like to see someone market a clear mask — if an effective and cost-effective clear material exists

    • Replies: @Jack D
    You could probably make a clear vinyl cup (same stuff they use to make clear safety goggles) to go over your nose and mouth instead of the usual black rubber but the filter would have to be opaque (and the "clear" cup would distort your appearance anyway) so there's no point.

    I think there could be a big market for "decorative" masks, especially for young women. If the mask could be a fashion statement instead of making you look like a nerdy Asian, this would be a big step forward in public acceptance.
  39. @Redneck farmer
    Too many of the people complaining about how slow the FDA is now, will be the first to bitch if a problem develops problems from the FDA "moving too fast".
    It's like RU-486, a lot of vagina-equipped columnists were in favor of FDA bypassing the normal approval process because the Europeans had approved it. Other medications though, the Europeans weren't to be trusted.

    Sure, the FDA has to be like Goldilocks – their regulations have to be not too hard and not too soft – just right. BUT, in an emergency period like now, this doesn’t work well. If your choice is either wearing an N95 made in an FDA inspected facility (preferably one in the US*) or a shady Chinese KN95, then it’s no contest – go for the real N95. But, in an extreme emergency where hospital workers are not getting PPE, a KN95 is better than literally nothing.

    Right now the standard should be “better than nothing”. As the situation normalizes they can tighten the screws, but not now. In an emergency , you really have to change your approach to regulations, which in normal times are aimed at keeping everyone safe to the maximum extent possible. People are dying already anyway, so it’s no longer a question of keeping everyone safe (too late for that now), it’s a question of which path is going to kill FEWER people. But bureaucrats are not known for their flexibility.

    *FDA inspection of overseas facilities is very lax – one of the ways that globalization has not been good. Putting aside labor costs, one of the ways that overseas production has been advantaged is that in your US factory, all sorts of inspectors are going to be showing up and harassing you and making your life difficult – not just the FDA, but OSHA and the EPA and DOL and state and local inspectors and whatnot. But at the subcontractor’s plant in Lucknow or Wuhan, there is little of that and all the inspectors are suitably bribed anyway. So even if the labor costs were the same (which they aren’t) you’d still be better off overseas far from the prying eyes of our alphabet soup of government agencies.

    • Replies: @peterike

    So even if the labor costs were the same (which they aren’t) you’d still be better off overseas far from the prying eyes of our alphabet soup of government agencies.
     
    Which is also how US and other companies have effectively outsourced their pollution. Who needs all those expensive pollution control measures in the United States? Feh. Go to China and pollute away! Good for the bottom line.

    But do the Globalists -- who are oh-soooo-concerned about Mother Gaia, as they tell us while Instagraming from their private jets -- ever utter a peep about this? Or course not.
  40. You should ideally have full face masks with P100 standard filters, as eyes are likely one of the portals of entry for the virus. (Eyes are one of the main “portal of entry” for viruses causing respiratory illnesses https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3591987/)

    Modern full face masks like Dräger FPS 7000 are comfortable and light, and more pleasant to wear than a disposible mask.

    However, if you only have disposible N95 and N100 masks – then I recommend that you also buy airtight goggles as well. Depending on design, goggles can help to hold such disposible masks and seal them to the face.

    To defeat the epidemic, while maintaining a normal economy – you just need to legally require people outside seal their eyes, and filter air to something like P100 filtration standard. (i.e. all which was within the capacity of Soviet Union half a century in the past, and was backed by national stocks of hundreds of millions of GP-5 gasmask).

    Here is a reason to regret that it is not the USSR: anti-epidemic policy is an area where the Soviet Union, from late 1960s onwards, was considered by international experts, to be the country in the world with the highest state capacity.

    In the context of respiratory infections, millions of GP-5 gasmasks – which fully seal the eyes and mouth – could have been distributed to all citizens in a few days, and the requirement mandated that you need to wear the gasmask to leave the home (thereby the only possibly route of infection would be by hands, during careless removal of the gasmask in the home, or from surfaces).

    (Unfortunately, although hundreds of millions GP-5 gasmasks were produced in the USSR, filters expired many decades in the past and if used now could – due to disintegration in old age – release asbestos).

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Couldn't the filters be replaced? I suppose the rubber has also deteriorated by now.

    I believe that Israel has distributed gas masks to their civilianpopulation and could implement this immediately, but I think there would be social resistance to having everyone wear a gas mask in public. If I recall, when they did have everyone wear a mask during the Iraq War, a few people died because they managed to somehow asphyxiate themselves with the mask. This is not easy to do but if you are stupid enough you might be able to achieve this feat.

    https://www.armysurplusworld.com/israeli-civilian-gas-mask
  41. @peterike
    Speaking of masks...

    A Brooklyn man claiming to be infected with the coronavirus coughed on FBI agents who were investigating him for hoarding medical supplies, the US Attorney’s Office said Monday.

    Baruch Feldheim, 43, is facing charges of assault and making false statements to the feds on Sunday outside his Borough Park home where he allegedly peddled and stored massive amounts of N95 respirator masks, federal officials said.

    Feldheim is also accused of price-gouging. On March 18, he’s suspected of selling a New Jersey doctor about 1,000 of the masks for $12,000, a markup of roughly 700 percent, authorities said.
     
    Baruch Feldheim!

    In the aftermath of all this I hope (though doubt) there is a deep examination of all the powers that various elected officials and bureaucrats simply assumed.

    FBI agents who were investigating him for hoarding medical supplies

    What is “hoarding”, how is it defined, and what federal law does it violate? What law prohibits “price gouging”?

  42. @peterike
    Speaking of masks...

    A Brooklyn man claiming to be infected with the coronavirus coughed on FBI agents who were investigating him for hoarding medical supplies, the US Attorney’s Office said Monday.

    Baruch Feldheim, 43, is facing charges of assault and making false statements to the feds on Sunday outside his Borough Park home where he allegedly peddled and stored massive amounts of N95 respirator masks, federal officials said.

    Feldheim is also accused of price-gouging. On March 18, he’s suspected of selling a New Jersey doctor about 1,000 of the masks for $12,000, a markup of roughly 700 percent, authorities said.
     
    Baruch Feldheim!

    It’s ironic that the FBI’s approach to the mask shortage is the same approach that the NKVD would have used on kulaks who were “hoarding” grain. Baruch Feldheim is a wrecker! He must be punished.

    The best way to end the mask shortage (according to the FBI) is to punish anyone who tries to sell you one at a market clearing price. Supply and demand have greatly shifted, but the price has to remain the same or you are “gouging”.

    When they couldn’t think of anything else to charge him with, they charged him with “lying to a Federal agent”. This is a great all-purpose charge. Normally you have to be under oath in order to be guilty of perjury, but when speaking to Federal agents, no oath necessary.

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Kibernetika
    Baruch Feldheim is a wrecker! He must be punished.

    Using Soviet terminology, kulak would be a more appropriate label. They were the hoarder types (keeping grain and livestock from the collectivists). The wrecker label was applied more to bureaucrats and managers who didn't deliver on production quotas or pissed off the folks in charge. Perhaps analagous to the SPLC casually condemning some person or group. Broader brush.
    , @V. Hickel
    If it's not wrong, then why lie about it?
  43. @Jack D
    Sure, the FDA has to be like Goldilocks - their regulations have to be not too hard and not too soft - just right. BUT, in an emergency period like now, this doesn't work well. If your choice is either wearing an N95 made in an FDA inspected facility (preferably one in the US*) or a shady Chinese KN95, then it's no contest - go for the real N95. But, in an extreme emergency where hospital workers are not getting PPE, a KN95 is better than literally nothing.

    Right now the standard should be "better than nothing". As the situation normalizes they can tighten the screws, but not now. In an emergency , you really have to change your approach to regulations, which in normal times are aimed at keeping everyone safe to the maximum extent possible. People are dying already anyway, so it's no longer a question of keeping everyone safe (too late for that now), it's a question of which path is going to kill FEWER people. But bureaucrats are not known for their flexibility.

    *FDA inspection of overseas facilities is very lax - one of the ways that globalization has not been good. Putting aside labor costs, one of the ways that overseas production has been advantaged is that in your US factory, all sorts of inspectors are going to be showing up and harassing you and making your life difficult - not just the FDA, but OSHA and the EPA and DOL and state and local inspectors and whatnot. But at the subcontractor's plant in Lucknow or Wuhan, there is little of that and all the inspectors are suitably bribed anyway. So even if the labor costs were the same (which they aren't) you'd still be better off overseas far from the prying eyes of our alphabet soup of government agencies.

    So even if the labor costs were the same (which they aren’t) you’d still be better off overseas far from the prying eyes of our alphabet soup of government agencies.

    Which is also how US and other companies have effectively outsourced their pollution. Who needs all those expensive pollution control measures in the United States? Feh. Go to China and pollute away! Good for the bottom line.

    But do the Globalists — who are oh-soooo-concerned about Mother Gaia, as they tell us while Instagraming from their private jets — ever utter a peep about this? Or course not.

  44. @Dmitry
    You should ideally have full face masks with P100 standard filters, as eyes are likely one of the portals of entry for the virus. (Eyes are one of the main “portal of entry” for viruses causing respiratory illnesses https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3591987/)

    Modern full face masks like Dräger FPS 7000 are comfortable and light, and more pleasant to wear than a disposible mask.

    However, if you only have disposible N95 and N100 masks - then I recommend that you also buy airtight goggles as well. Depending on design, goggles can help to hold such disposible masks and seal them to the face.

    -

    To defeat the epidemic, while maintaining a normal economy – you just need to legally require people outside seal their eyes, and filter air to something like P100 filtration standard. (i.e. all which was within the capacity of Soviet Union half a century in the past, and was backed by national stocks of hundreds of millions of GP-5 gasmask).

    Here is a reason to regret that it is not the USSR: anti-epidemic policy is an area where the Soviet Union, from late 1960s onwards, was considered by international experts, to be the country in the world with the highest state capacity.

    In the context of respiratory infections, millions of GP-5 gasmasks - which fully seal the eyes and mouth - could have been distributed to all citizens in a few days, and the requirement mandated that you need to wear the gasmask to leave the home (thereby the only possibly route of infection would be by hands, during careless removal of the gasmask in the home, or from surfaces).

    (Unfortunately, although hundreds of millions GP-5 gasmasks were produced in the USSR, filters expired many decades in the past and if used now could – due to disintegration in old age – release asbestos).

    Couldn’t the filters be replaced? I suppose the rubber has also deteriorated by now.

    I believe that Israel has distributed gas masks to their civilianpopulation and could implement this immediately, but I think there would be social resistance to having everyone wear a gas mask in public. If I recall, when they did have everyone wear a mask during the Iraq War, a few people died because they managed to somehow asphyxiate themselves with the mask. This is not easy to do but if you are stupid enough you might be able to achieve this feat.

    https://www.armysurplusworld.com/israeli-civilian-gas-mask

  45. @Known Fact
    I'd like to see someone market a clear mask -- if an effective and cost-effective clear material exists

    You could probably make a clear vinyl cup (same stuff they use to make clear safety goggles) to go over your nose and mouth instead of the usual black rubber but the filter would have to be opaque (and the “clear” cup would distort your appearance anyway) so there’s no point.

    I think there could be a big market for “decorative” masks, especially for young women. If the mask could be a fashion statement instead of making you look like a nerdy Asian, this would be a big step forward in public acceptance.

  46. • Replies: @res
    Much more detail available in the paper I think is the original source for that data.
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525804_Testing_the_Efficacy_of_Homemade_Masks_Would_They_Protect_in_an_Influenza_Pandemic

    The surgical mask (control) showed the highest filtration efficiency with B atrophaeus. Also, as expected, its measured low pressure drop showed it to be the most suitable material among those tested for use as a face mask. The pillowcase and the 100% cotton t-shirt were found to be the most suitable household materials for an improvised face mask. The slightly stretchy quality of the t-shirt made it the more preferable choice for a face mask as it was considered likely to provide a better fit.

    Although doubling the layers of fabric did significantly increase the pressure drop measured across all 3 materials(P,.01 using Wilcoxon sign rank test), only the 2 layers of tea towel material demonstrated a significant increase infiltration efficiency that was marginally greater than that of the face mask.
     
  47. this stuff isn’t going to change, just like nothing changed for the positive after 9/11. muslim immigration increased, government spying on citizens increased.

    after this virus thing is over, everything will go right back to the way it was, plus some. democrats will be in full control and will dismantle the US.

    sorry, just the way it’s going to be. absolutely no chance at all that manufacturing will move back to the states, even for medical. that’s what happened during Obama after swine flu ended, and that’s what’s going to happen in 2021.

    • Agree: JMcG, JimB, Thea
  48. ventilator production is already being outsourced to China per this article.

    American manufacturers fear ventilators will be made in China

  49. @Rob

    And how are we ever going to wean ourselves off of Cheap Chinese Crap?
     
    I don’t know how this specific crisis will resolve, but I hope we get some decent changes to education, business, society, government, and the biomedical complex. I’ll limit this to education, and use a ‘More’ tag to show people how it’s done.

    Greg Cochran says a big problem with this crisis is that people in business, government, journalism, and the medical establishment aren’t smart enough to do their jobs. This needs to change. Let’s assume affirmative action is untouchable. There’s a big difference between having ‘enough’ non-whites in fancy jobs when 10% of the population is non-white and when 50% of the population is non-white. Society has had to pretend that intelligence is not as important as ‘grit’ and the proper average skin tone of the people in question.

    There are some fields where this is not a big problem. Very few blacks go into cosmology or astrophysics. The ones that do, though, usually have careers in outreach to their brand of non-white, encouraging them to go into the field, so that they can have productive careers encouraging non-whites to go into that field and have productive careers encouraging non-whites to go into the field...this is a perpetual motion machine.

    That’s an inefficient, though tolerable deadweight loss when NAMs are 5% of the field. When non-whites are 50% of a profession, though, they clog positions that need to be held by competent people. In professional schools leading to fancy jobs, the minority percent climbs by a lot. I couldn’t find Ivy League medical school demographics in a quick google search, so let’s take law school. Yale law school class of 2022 is 49% nonwhite. Harvard’s is 45% nonwhite. I couldn’t quickly determine if Asians were minority, but I assume they are. In an earlier thread Jack D said about 1% of Harvard/Yale law students would be black under merit-based admissions. Let’s be generous and assume half of the nonwhites are Asians, and that still leaves the lower races about 15 fold over-represented. It also goes without saying that Asians aren’t the best at creative problem-solving.

    Overall, about 20% of medical school entrants are Asian, 6% are Latinao, and 10% are black. Let’s be generous and assume blacks are as qualified for med school as they are for law school. Though I read somewhere that the average black MCAT score was at the 6th percentile for whites. In order to justify having dumb NAMs admitted and graduated (note I didn’t say educated!), we haven’t been choosing the brightest white applicants. We’ve admitted the whites who looked and sounded good in interviews and had lots of extracurriculars. Oh, and wrote the most ‘progressive’ essays. They need good grades, so they take the easiest courses they can outside the required courses, which are mostly freshman and sophomore classes.

    That needs to change. We need to ensure that the merit-based half of undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools is as meritorious as possible. That pretty much means smart. No other trait is as important and accurately measurable. Sure, conscientiousness matters, but that matures later in men than in women, and Asian tiger-parenting and conformity are hard to distinguish from conscientiousness, so I’d prize smart over everything else. Grades are hard to compare across schools and even professors in a school, so test scores give a more even playing field.

    In my most negative moments, I think we take so many physicians from overseas because we can’t increase med school enrollment without either making the demographics worse (better), or admitting blacks and Latinks who are profoundly retarded.

    The push coming from the other end, to increase the representation of nonwhites, especially Hispanics, to their share of the population in that age bracket will be enormous. If we had a pro-white political party, we’d at least have a shot at improving merit-based admissions for white males.

    Maybe all graduate programs need to start considering the quantitative section of the GRE in addition to verbal. Certainly journalists would be better if they had some math sense. Then they would finally hit Unz’s ‘do you even exponential, bro’ standard. A man can dream. If I were creating a test from whole cloth, it would include a visuospatial component, too. Even though that would advantage Asians, more abilities tested means a more accurate IQ test.

    It also goes without saying that Asians aren’t the best at creative problem-solving.

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too. The same academic testing/ IQ criteria that gets rid of underqualified blacks and Latinxes get you more Asians instead.

    Here is the no-affirmative action US Math Olympiad team:

    The short answer is that we are running out of white people, especially white people who are willing to do the many years of hard work necessary to excel in stem fields.

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    Yep, those pathetic lazy YTs. Not working hard enough to get past the racially hostile gatekeepers of academia.
    , @Known Fact
    They probably did have to find a white guy to wear that bear outfit. Furry-mascot hijinks are not a big part of the Asian skill set.
    , @anon
    especially white people who are willing to do the many years of hard work necessary to excel in stem fields.

    James Damore was one of those white people you want. Where is he now?

    That sort of blatant, open, discrimination and hate has not gone unnoticed. It's getting harder to encourage an 18 year old white male human to sign up for 4 - 5 years of hard courses when the word keeps coming back that No White Boys Need Apply is the rule at Google and other FANGs.

    Selfish wypipo! Unwilling to do the years of work necessary to excel at being replaced by H1b's.

    The white kids (at least the more savvy ones) have padded their applications with summer internships digging wells in Zambia and volunteering at the AIDS clinic in the ghetto instead of wasting their time learning C++ and differential calculus.

    Those people are applying to enter Poly Science or Law or Concerned Studies, not Math / Engineering. Nice goalpost shift, but fail.

    High school students with good math skills are still tending to go into finance, where their math skills will actually make them some money and there is no culture of H1b's to hammer their wages down --- unlike "tech".

    , @JimB

    The short answer is that we are running out of white people, especially white people who are willing to do the many years of hard work necessary to excel in stem fields.
     
    The slightly expanded answer is that we are running out of white people willing to do the many years of hard work necessary to excel in stem fields, then work for relatively shit money under a racist Indian or Chinese boss who will lay them off when programming fads or simulator packages change.
    , @Rob

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too. The same academic testing/ IQ criteria that gets rid of underqualified blacks and Latinxes get you more Asians instead.
     
    Course I can. I have no problem at all with Chinese hoarding all the spots in the University of Beijing. Zero issue with Japanese being 100% of the matriculants of Tokyo University. Perfectly fine with Vietnamese monopolizing Ho Chi Minh College. I don’t want them crowding out actual Americans at US universities. At least not until European whites are as large a percentage of their nations as they are of ours. Come to think of it, I have a bit of a problem with Jews making up such a huge fraction of the de facto white quota at top American schools. Jews should have their own category in which they can monopolize the entire quota. Until white gentiles constitute as large a fraction of the Ivy League as we are a fraction of the top scorers on the SAT, I think we have a legitimate complaint. A far more legitimate complaint than Asians who want to be five times over represented, instead of just four, like they are now.

    At least Jews have shown they have real life performance on par with their scholastic disproportional representation. Asians have not shown real world achievements to justify all the academic resources they consume. That of course does not apply to Asians in Asia. Going from subsistence rice farmers to an industrial powerhouse in a generation is quite an achievement. Sure, they aren’t doing it with their own intellectual property, but it’s not like NAMs could manage the same with white IP.
  50. I bought more than a couple dozen N 95 masks last month or earlier this month for our family of four. All were purchased at somewhat inflated early coronavirus prices, but not horribly high. They’re all 3M, I believe. I’ve also been sharing some of what I purchased with my medically involved middle aged sister who lives about an hour away. None of us have been wearing any of the masks yet because we’re pretty sure things aren’t nearly as bad now as they’re going to get. It may never get really bad around here, but we can’t know for sure. I doubt we will need more masks than we now have, but we can’t know that, either.

    Now, one of the wealthiest industries in the history of the US – the medical industry – is putting on the poverty act and trying to make people like my family and me believe that our two dozen masks constitutes hoarding, and that we should be dropping them off at the nearest hospital. To hell with that.

    Had hospitals not been charging patients and insurance companies $10 per aspirin pill over the last several decades, and had my twins had not been billed half a million dollars each in medical costs for the month they spent in the NICU when they were born, I could maybe have a bit more sympathy. The care they received in the NICU was a true blessing, but the medical industry was paid extremely well for providing that blessing, and could’ve stockpiled a shitload of masks with the profits they made from providing us with that blessing. But they chose not to.

    Civilians with thousands of masks should give some or most of them to hospitals. People with twenty masks or less (per person) shouldn’t. They should have masks to protect themselves from the virus so they don’t end up in the hospital where there aren’t any masks.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    My father spent an afternoon shopping around his local hardware stores to get N95s. When the call for donations to hospitals came out, he asked, "why didn't [the hospital] buy them up when they were in the hardware stores?"

    Fair enough question in my view.
  51. @Jack D

    It also goes without saying that Asians aren’t the best at creative problem-solving.
     
    You can't have your cake and eat it too. The same academic testing/ IQ criteria that gets rid of underqualified blacks and Latinxes get you more Asians instead.

    Here is the no-affirmative action US Math Olympiad team:

    https://alphastar.academy/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/imo.png


    The short answer is that we are running out of white people, especially white people who are willing to do the many years of hard work necessary to excel in stem fields.

    Yep, those pathetic lazy YTs. Not working hard enough to get past the racially hostile gatekeepers of academia.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    I hate to tell you this, but the gatekeepers of academia are much more hostile to Asians than they are to white people. If the Harvard admissions officers get one more application from a nerdy Indian kid in NJ whose parents are doctors and whose hobby is programming, they are going to gag. Latisha from the ghetto with 600 SATs has a much better chance of getting in to Harvard than the International Math Olympiad winners in the picture. She does slam poetry dontcha know. Something about white people touching her hair.

    The white kids (at least the more savvy ones) have padded their applications with summer internships digging wells in Zambia and volunteering at the AIDS clinic in the ghetto instead of wasting their time learning C++ and differential calculus.

  52. Anonymous[150] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Who knows what the quality is of the factories making them...
     
    This "far-right lunatic" on Twitter has been all over the coronavirus from the start, broadly accurate (where proveable thus far), and usually weeks if not months ahead of accepted fact. (More or less, anyway, I haven't bothered checking it all out. I'm just pre-ambling because a lot of people would be prone to dismiss him as a racist/conspiracy theorist/whatever.)

    He reports, here</a and here, that Chinese masks received recently in the Netherlands and Spain haven't been up to snuff.

    This makes sense: whatever control processes are usually in place in Chinese factories (the same processes that didn't catch melamine in the baby formula) have probably not been working at their normal effectiveness since about the time a pandemic broke out and the gov't shut the country down. And to the extent that the Chinese are capable of determining which mask-batches were at par and which weren't, I'd suppose that they'd keep the good ones for themselves.

    This needn't be some sinister plot on the part of Mao's head-in-a-jar, either: how confident are you that some Chinese businessman wouldn't try to palm off a bunch of dodgy, ineffective masks on some foreign devils? "Oh, so solly, bok gweilo, reprace-a-ment masku on way 4-6 months, tsank-a-u velly much lol"

    I’m pretty sure Loki is a fed. He’s based in the DC area, and spends most of his time promoting conspiracy theories to rope in the alt-right, not just the standard theories, but the more retarded and fanciful ones, like Atlantis, the Middle Ages being a forgery, etc. But when it comes to foreign policy issues, he always comes around to toeing the official US government line.

    • Replies: @anon
    Christ, is there no-one we can trust?
  53. I think that wearing glasses or safety (goggle like) glasses would maybe help for keeping small droplets out of your eyes. A mask maybe wouldn’t filter viruses (so they tell us) but if it covered your whole face the droplets/viruses wouldn’t get on your face and it wouldn’t be so bad if you touched the mask if you continuously kept your hands clean. What would really be good is if they had a viruscide (?) gel you could smear all over your face that would cling on kind of like vaseline.

    Right now I only go to public places if I absolutely have to; namely groceries and medicine. When I get home I leave my shoes and all my clothes in the basement in a garbage bag. I immediately take the hottest shower I can stand. I have inside and outside shoes and clean clothing to put on. After two days the viruses should die on the old clothing (so they tell us) and I can handle them and wash them.

  54. @Jack D

    It also goes without saying that Asians aren’t the best at creative problem-solving.
     
    You can't have your cake and eat it too. The same academic testing/ IQ criteria that gets rid of underqualified blacks and Latinxes get you more Asians instead.

    Here is the no-affirmative action US Math Olympiad team:

    https://alphastar.academy/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/imo.png


    The short answer is that we are running out of white people, especially white people who are willing to do the many years of hard work necessary to excel in stem fields.

    They probably did have to find a white guy to wear that bear outfit. Furry-mascot hijinks are not a big part of the Asian skill set.

  55. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme
    There have been reports from Czechia, Spain, and The Netherlands of dangerously ineffective Chinese medical supplies having been received.

    Of course, that doesn't alter the possibility that the FDA has been completely taken over by enemies of the US population. That is surly a normal fate for any fedgov bureaucracy?

    Not just Chinese, but also Russian medical aid to Europe is being called “faulty” and “useless”.

    There is currently a propaganda war being waged between the US and China (and to a lesser extent, Russia) over the response to this outbreak.

    “Chinese, Russian Corona Aid Is 80% Useless (Says CIA?)”

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/chinese-russian-corona-aid-is-80-useless-says-cia/

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    There is currently a propaganda war being waged between the US and China (and to a lesser extent, Russia) over the response to this outbreak.
     
    Agreed. Given how badly the US Government has handled the crisis it is necessary to find a scapegoat. China is the scapegoat of choice for the American Right.

    Ron Unz made a very good point about the US being basically a state that is run by the Ministry of Propaganda. Anything the US Government tells you is propaganda.
  56. @BenKenobi
    Yep, those pathetic lazy YTs. Not working hard enough to get past the racially hostile gatekeepers of academia.

    I hate to tell you this, but the gatekeepers of academia are much more hostile to Asians than they are to white people. If the Harvard admissions officers get one more application from a nerdy Indian kid in NJ whose parents are doctors and whose hobby is programming, they are going to gag. Latisha from the ghetto with 600 SATs has a much better chance of getting in to Harvard than the International Math Olympiad winners in the picture. She does slam poetry dontcha know. Something about white people touching her hair.

    The white kids (at least the more savvy ones) have padded their applications with summer internships digging wells in Zambia and volunteering at the AIDS clinic in the ghetto instead of wasting their time learning C++ and differential calculus.

    • Disagree: Charon
    • LOL: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @peterike

    I hate to tell you this, but the gatekeepers of academia are much more hostile to Asians than they are to white people.
     
    No, Asians are massively privileged in academic admissions, just not relative to the number of applications they churn forth. An Asian is put far ahead of a deplorable white, especially a straight male. And Americanized Asians are 100% savvy to the whole "fill my application with writing poetry to black prisoners" approach to admissions.

    Harvard class of 2023:

    African American - 14.3% (ludicrous)

    Asian American - 25.3% (should all be whites)

    Hispanic or Latino - 12.2%

    Native American - 1.8%

    Native Hawaiian - 0.6%

    That's it. They don't actually list "white" on their website. The above adds up to 54.2%. Leaving 45.8% for "white." How many of those 45% are Jews? 20%? 30%?

    Whites are massively discriminated against at Harvard.

    Source: https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics

    , @Sam Haysom
    The laziness seems to have infected your and Ron’s clan too. Of course they know the code to stand out- slip a reference to Birthright into their application.

    I notice you didn’t mention anything about the loophole which drives Jews most petulant in envious rage- the jock loop hole. Been kind of a dry spell since Sandy Koufax in that area.


    I know I know it’s tawdry to talk about your clan even while you shit tall whites.
  57. @anonymous
    I can understand why they wouldn't want them around for use by medical professionals. If I'm a nurse stuck in a coronavirus tent, I don't want to have to worry about chinese tomfuckery.

    They should stamp the masks with a happy face, mark 'em "For Civilian Use" and sell 'em at Costco. General containment of particulate is a lot of the battle. Trump needs to crack some more heads.

    You can buy US-made N95 masks on Ebay. Jus’ sayin’.

  58. @Jack D
    I hate to tell you this, but the gatekeepers of academia are much more hostile to Asians than they are to white people. If the Harvard admissions officers get one more application from a nerdy Indian kid in NJ whose parents are doctors and whose hobby is programming, they are going to gag. Latisha from the ghetto with 600 SATs has a much better chance of getting in to Harvard than the International Math Olympiad winners in the picture. She does slam poetry dontcha know. Something about white people touching her hair.

    The white kids (at least the more savvy ones) have padded their applications with summer internships digging wells in Zambia and volunteering at the AIDS clinic in the ghetto instead of wasting their time learning C++ and differential calculus.

    I hate to tell you this, but the gatekeepers of academia are much more hostile to Asians than they are to white people.

    No, Asians are massively privileged in academic admissions, just not relative to the number of applications they churn forth. An Asian is put far ahead of a deplorable white, especially a straight male. And Americanized Asians are 100% savvy to the whole “fill my application with writing poetry to black prisoners” approach to admissions.

    Harvard class of 2023:

    African American – 14.3% (ludicrous)

    Asian American – 25.3% (should all be whites)

    Hispanic or Latino – 12.2%

    Native American – 1.8%

    Native Hawaiian – 0.6%

    That’s it. They don’t actually list “white” on their website. The above adds up to 54.2%. Leaving 45.8% for “white.” How many of those 45% are Jews? 20%? 30%?

    Whites are massively discriminated against at Harvard.

    Source: https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics

  59. anon[380] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    It also goes without saying that Asians aren’t the best at creative problem-solving.
     
    You can't have your cake and eat it too. The same academic testing/ IQ criteria that gets rid of underqualified blacks and Latinxes get you more Asians instead.

    Here is the no-affirmative action US Math Olympiad team:

    https://alphastar.academy/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/imo.png


    The short answer is that we are running out of white people, especially white people who are willing to do the many years of hard work necessary to excel in stem fields.

    especially white people who are willing to do the many years of hard work necessary to excel in stem fields.

    James Damore was one of those white people you want. Where is he now?

    That sort of blatant, open, discrimination and hate has not gone unnoticed. It’s getting harder to encourage an 18 year old white male human to sign up for 4 – 5 years of hard courses when the word keeps coming back that No White Boys Need Apply is the rule at Google and other FANGs.

    Selfish wypipo! Unwilling to do the years of work necessary to excel at being replaced by H1b’s.

    The white kids (at least the more savvy ones) have padded their applications with summer internships digging wells in Zambia and volunteering at the AIDS clinic in the ghetto instead of wasting their time learning C++ and differential calculus.

    Those people are applying to enter Poly Science or Law or Concerned Studies, not Math / Engineering. Nice goalpost shift, but fail.

    High school students with good math skills are still tending to go into finance, where their math skills will actually make them some money and there is no culture of H1b’s to hammer their wages down — unlike “tech”.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    That sort of blatant, open, discrimination and hate has not gone unnoticed. It’s getting harder to encourage an 18 year old white male human to sign up for 4 – 5 years of hard courses when the word keeps coming back that No White Boys Need Apply is the rule at Google and other FANGs.
     
    The defense industry is getting desperate for talent due to the Boomers aging out of the workforce.

    It's steady work with decent pay and benefits, and work-life balance is quite good at most of the primes. Most technical positions are limited to US citizens.

    On the other hand, defense is trying to poz up in accordance with Fed rules. Earning potential is limited versus finance. The technical work is not always on the cutting edge, and the primes all have epic levels of bureaucracy that impede getting anything done.
  60. @Jack D
    I hate to tell you this, but the gatekeepers of academia are much more hostile to Asians than they are to white people. If the Harvard admissions officers get one more application from a nerdy Indian kid in NJ whose parents are doctors and whose hobby is programming, they are going to gag. Latisha from the ghetto with 600 SATs has a much better chance of getting in to Harvard than the International Math Olympiad winners in the picture. She does slam poetry dontcha know. Something about white people touching her hair.

    The white kids (at least the more savvy ones) have padded their applications with summer internships digging wells in Zambia and volunteering at the AIDS clinic in the ghetto instead of wasting their time learning C++ and differential calculus.

    The laziness seems to have infected your and Ron’s clan too. Of course they know the code to stand out- slip a reference to Birthright into their application.

    I notice you didn’t mention anything about the loophole which drives Jews most petulant in envious rage- the jock loop hole. Been kind of a dry spell since Sandy Koufax in that area.

    I know I know it’s tawdry to talk about your clan even while you shit tall whites.

    • Replies: @anon
    At that level of academics, Jews aren't uncompetitive athletes relative to gentile whites and blacks. Especially since a lot of Ivy League collegiate sports are relatively niche ones like fencing, crew, squash, etc. and not just the stereotypically jock ones like football.

    Sure, you might have trouble finding 70 300 lb. Jewish guys to fill out your Ivy League football team roster, but plenty of Jewish kids play on the other sports teams. Hell, even Asian kids aren't that uncompetitive at that level. Jeremy Lin was the first Harvard basketball player to play in the NBA since the 1950s.
  61. It’s ironic that quite some time back the FDA discontinued its on site posting of US citizen (temporary site resident on rotation) inspectors in Chinese and Indian pharmaceutical manufacturing plants where some of the most consumed (by daily dosage) off-patent generic RX drugs (or their precursor chemical ingredients) in America are manufactured.

    So yes, don’t trust China, but withhold same from our own FDA.

  62. @Jack D

    It also goes without saying that Asians aren’t the best at creative problem-solving.
     
    You can't have your cake and eat it too. The same academic testing/ IQ criteria that gets rid of underqualified blacks and Latinxes get you more Asians instead.

    Here is the no-affirmative action US Math Olympiad team:

    https://alphastar.academy/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/imo.png


    The short answer is that we are running out of white people, especially white people who are willing to do the many years of hard work necessary to excel in stem fields.

    The short answer is that we are running out of white people, especially white people who are willing to do the many years of hard work necessary to excel in stem fields.

    The slightly expanded answer is that we are running out of white people willing to do the many years of hard work necessary to excel in stem fields, then work for relatively shit money under a racist Indian or Chinese boss who will lay them off when programming fads or simulator packages change.

  63. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Fight it the gorilla way.

  64. @prime noticer
    https://imgur.com/a/kfcvtTb

    Much more detail available in the paper I think is the original source for that data.
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525804_Testing_the_Efficacy_of_Homemade_Masks_Would_They_Protect_in_an_Influenza_Pandemic

    The surgical mask (control) showed the highest filtration efficiency with B atrophaeus. Also, as expected, its measured low pressure drop showed it to be the most suitable material among those tested for use as a face mask. The pillowcase and the 100% cotton t-shirt were found to be the most suitable household materials for an improvised face mask. The slightly stretchy quality of the t-shirt made it the more preferable choice for a face mask as it was considered likely to provide a better fit.

    Although doubling the layers of fabric did significantly increase the pressure drop measured across all 3 materials(P,.01 using Wilcoxon sign rank test), only the 2 layers of tea towel material demonstrated a significant increase infiltration efficiency that was marginally greater than that of the face mask.

  65. @Jack D
    Coronavirus lasts for no more than 24 hours on cardboard and other absorbent surfaces, so even if the masks were not sterile to begin with, by the time they reach you they will no longer contain any viable virus.

    If you are really worried, you could sterilize them by putting them in a 160F oven for 30 minutes (or under UV light).

    Viruses are actually rather delicate since they have these little probes on the outside that have to fit into cellular receptors in order to cause infection. It doesn't take that much energy to disrupt this delicate structure - think of something like a dandelion seed head but on a very tiny microscopic scale.

    FYI, the research that the 160 degree/30 min or UV recommendation is based on was research on the mask’s viability after treatment, not on disinfection per se. I’m guessing it disinfects, but no research actually showing that.

  66. @J1234
    I bought more than a couple dozen N 95 masks last month or earlier this month for our family of four. All were purchased at somewhat inflated early coronavirus prices, but not horribly high. They're all 3M, I believe. I've also been sharing some of what I purchased with my medically involved middle aged sister who lives about an hour away. None of us have been wearing any of the masks yet because we're pretty sure things aren't nearly as bad now as they're going to get. It may never get really bad around here, but we can't know for sure. I doubt we will need more masks than we now have, but we can't know that, either.

    Now, one of the wealthiest industries in the history of the US - the medical industry - is putting on the poverty act and trying to make people like my family and me believe that our two dozen masks constitutes hoarding, and that we should be dropping them off at the nearest hospital. To hell with that.

    Had hospitals not been charging patients and insurance companies $10 per aspirin pill over the last several decades, and had my twins had not been billed half a million dollars each in medical costs for the month they spent in the NICU when they were born, I could maybe have a bit more sympathy. The care they received in the NICU was a true blessing, but the medical industry was paid extremely well for providing that blessing, and could've stockpiled a shitload of masks with the profits they made from providing us with that blessing. But they chose not to.

    Civilians with thousands of masks should give some or most of them to hospitals. People with twenty masks or less (per person) shouldn't. They should have masks to protect themselves from the virus so they don't end up in the hospital where there aren't any masks.

    My father spent an afternoon shopping around his local hardware stores to get N95s. When the call for donations to hospitals came out, he asked, “why didn’t [the hospital] buy them up when they were in the hardware stores?”

    Fair enough question in my view.

    • Agree: TomSchmidt
  67. If you dig into the literature more, it really looks like there are lots of ways user error can happen with N95 masks, decreasing their effectiveness.

    Also, ear straps? Hmmm… doesn’t seem like a tight enough fit.

    My guess is that KN95s are no better than common surgical masks for most people, including most health care workers.

  68. @Jack D
    It's ironic that the FBI's approach to the mask shortage is the same approach that the NKVD would have used on kulaks who were "hoarding" grain. Baruch Feldheim is a wrecker! He must be punished.

    The best way to end the mask shortage (according to the FBI) is to punish anyone who tries to sell you one at a market clearing price. Supply and demand have greatly shifted, but the price has to remain the same or you are "gouging".

    When they couldn't think of anything else to charge him with, they charged him with "lying to a Federal agent". This is a great all-purpose charge. Normally you have to be under oath in order to be guilty of perjury, but when speaking to Federal agents, no oath necessary.

    Baruch Feldheim is a wrecker! He must be punished.

    Using Soviet terminology, kulak would be a more appropriate label. They were the hoarder types (keeping grain and livestock from the collectivists). The wrecker label was applied more to bureaucrats and managers who didn’t deliver on production quotas or pissed off the folks in charge. Perhaps analagous to the SPLC casually condemning some person or group. Broader brush.

  69. Not sure if I’m virtue- or stupidity-signalling (both?), but I donated the few N95 masks that I had at hand to my local hospital/med school. What a white guy 🙁 There was an orderly drop-off procedure and no drama. Tesla guy in front of me had a trunkful of stuff (surgical masks, good gloves, etc.; figured him to be an MD).

    Kept a few N95s and have my K98 Mausers. Good to go!

  70. @peterike
    Speaking of masks...

    A Brooklyn man claiming to be infected with the coronavirus coughed on FBI agents who were investigating him for hoarding medical supplies, the US Attorney’s Office said Monday.

    Baruch Feldheim, 43, is facing charges of assault and making false statements to the feds on Sunday outside his Borough Park home where he allegedly peddled and stored massive amounts of N95 respirator masks, federal officials said.

    Feldheim is also accused of price-gouging. On March 18, he’s suspected of selling a New Jersey doctor about 1,000 of the masks for $12,000, a markup of roughly 700 percent, authorities said.
     
    Baruch Feldheim!

    wow i can’t believe a Feldheim exploiting victims of a tragedy.

  71. @anon
    especially white people who are willing to do the many years of hard work necessary to excel in stem fields.

    James Damore was one of those white people you want. Where is he now?

    That sort of blatant, open, discrimination and hate has not gone unnoticed. It's getting harder to encourage an 18 year old white male human to sign up for 4 - 5 years of hard courses when the word keeps coming back that No White Boys Need Apply is the rule at Google and other FANGs.

    Selfish wypipo! Unwilling to do the years of work necessary to excel at being replaced by H1b's.

    The white kids (at least the more savvy ones) have padded their applications with summer internships digging wells in Zambia and volunteering at the AIDS clinic in the ghetto instead of wasting their time learning C++ and differential calculus.

    Those people are applying to enter Poly Science or Law or Concerned Studies, not Math / Engineering. Nice goalpost shift, but fail.

    High school students with good math skills are still tending to go into finance, where their math skills will actually make them some money and there is no culture of H1b's to hammer their wages down --- unlike "tech".

    That sort of blatant, open, discrimination and hate has not gone unnoticed. It’s getting harder to encourage an 18 year old white male human to sign up for 4 – 5 years of hard courses when the word keeps coming back that No White Boys Need Apply is the rule at Google and other FANGs.

    The defense industry is getting desperate for talent due to the Boomers aging out of the workforce.

    It’s steady work with decent pay and benefits, and work-life balance is quite good at most of the primes. Most technical positions are limited to US citizens.

    On the other hand, defense is trying to poz up in accordance with Fed rules. Earning potential is limited versus finance. The technical work is not always on the cutting edge, and the primes all have epic levels of bureaucracy that impede getting anything done.

    • Replies: @anon
    The defense industry is getting desperate for talent due to the Boomers aging out of the workforce.

    Yeah, for a start define "US citizen". Then bear in mind that Affirmative Action in the DOD associated world is something like 40 years old. A "born in America" Indian-American is worth more AA points than a whitemale, for example. The whitemale will be doing the work of himself and one other, we know that.

    On the other hand, defense is trying to poz up in accordance with Fed rules.

    That is also a factor.

    Do you know anyone who works in that world? I do.
    I've been told it isn't at all the same as it was in 1982. What do you think?
  72. @Jack D
    It's ironic that the FBI's approach to the mask shortage is the same approach that the NKVD would have used on kulaks who were "hoarding" grain. Baruch Feldheim is a wrecker! He must be punished.

    The best way to end the mask shortage (according to the FBI) is to punish anyone who tries to sell you one at a market clearing price. Supply and demand have greatly shifted, but the price has to remain the same or you are "gouging".

    When they couldn't think of anything else to charge him with, they charged him with "lying to a Federal agent". This is a great all-purpose charge. Normally you have to be under oath in order to be guilty of perjury, but when speaking to Federal agents, no oath necessary.

    If it’s not wrong, then why lie about it?

    • Replies: @anon
    If it’s not wrong, then why lie about it?

    Do you know what Martha Stewart was convicted of, and what she actually said/did?
    , @Jack D
    I have many such questions:

    If you are an honest man, then why not let the police search your house?

    If you are not a criminal, then why do you need a gun?
  73. Anon[330] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterike
    Speaking of masks...

    A Brooklyn man claiming to be infected with the coronavirus coughed on FBI agents who were investigating him for hoarding medical supplies, the US Attorney’s Office said Monday.

    Baruch Feldheim, 43, is facing charges of assault and making false statements to the feds on Sunday outside his Borough Park home where he allegedly peddled and stored massive amounts of N95 respirator masks, federal officials said.

    Feldheim is also accused of price-gouging. On March 18, he’s suspected of selling a New Jersey doctor about 1,000 of the masks for $12,000, a markup of roughly 700 percent, authorities said.
     
    Baruch Feldheim!

    $12 per mask doesn’t seem that egregious, especially since the masks went to a doctor who presumably needs them more than most people and is likely to share them with other doctors, health care workers, family and acquaintances that need them more than most people. And the doctor is also going to be able to afford that markup.

    If you don’t have some degree of price gouging, you just have the situation we had with toilet paper, where people cleared the shelves of cheap toilet paper and keep an excess supply in their garages indefinitely and off the market. You have hoarding and shortages all the same, with even less supply entering the market.

    There are no doubt people out there who bought up a ton of masks, more than they ever would use personally, with no intention of selling them for big markups but just out of fear or a hoarding instinct. They’re just sitting idly in their closets and garages. It’d be better if that supply did enter the market, even at a markup.

    • Replies: @anon

    $12 per mask doesn’t seem that egregious
     
    It's not right. That profiteer should be fired out of a cannon into a pond full of pig-slop.
  74. Rob says:
    @Jack D

    It also goes without saying that Asians aren’t the best at creative problem-solving.
     
    You can't have your cake and eat it too. The same academic testing/ IQ criteria that gets rid of underqualified blacks and Latinxes get you more Asians instead.

    Here is the no-affirmative action US Math Olympiad team:

    https://alphastar.academy/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/imo.png


    The short answer is that we are running out of white people, especially white people who are willing to do the many years of hard work necessary to excel in stem fields.

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too. The same academic testing/ IQ criteria that gets rid of underqualified blacks and Latinxes get you more Asians instead.

    Course I can. I have no problem at all with Chinese hoarding all the spots in the University of Beijing. Zero issue with Japanese being 100% of the matriculants of Tokyo University. Perfectly fine with Vietnamese monopolizing Ho Chi Minh College. I don’t want them crowding out actual Americans at US universities. At least not until European whites are as large a percentage of their nations as they are of ours. Come to think of it, I have a bit of a problem with Jews making up such a huge fraction of the de facto white quota at top American schools. Jews should have their own category in which they can monopolize the entire quota. Until white gentiles constitute as large a fraction of the Ivy League as we are a fraction of the top scorers on the SAT, I think we have a legitimate complaint. A far more legitimate complaint than Asians who want to be five times over represented, instead of just four, like they are now.

    At least Jews have shown they have real life performance on par with their scholastic disproportional representation. Asians have not shown real world achievements to justify all the academic resources they consume. That of course does not apply to Asians in Asia. Going from subsistence rice farmers to an industrial powerhouse in a generation is quite an achievement. Sure, they aren’t doing it with their own intellectual property, but it’s not like NAMs could manage the same with white IP.

  75. anon[165] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    That sort of blatant, open, discrimination and hate has not gone unnoticed. It’s getting harder to encourage an 18 year old white male human to sign up for 4 – 5 years of hard courses when the word keeps coming back that No White Boys Need Apply is the rule at Google and other FANGs.
     
    The defense industry is getting desperate for talent due to the Boomers aging out of the workforce.

    It's steady work with decent pay and benefits, and work-life balance is quite good at most of the primes. Most technical positions are limited to US citizens.

    On the other hand, defense is trying to poz up in accordance with Fed rules. Earning potential is limited versus finance. The technical work is not always on the cutting edge, and the primes all have epic levels of bureaucracy that impede getting anything done.

    The defense industry is getting desperate for talent due to the Boomers aging out of the workforce.

    Yeah, for a start define “US citizen”. Then bear in mind that Affirmative Action in the DOD associated world is something like 40 years old. A “born in America” Indian-American is worth more AA points than a whitemale, for example. The whitemale will be doing the work of himself and one other, we know that.

    On the other hand, defense is trying to poz up in accordance with Fed rules.

    That is also a factor.

    Do you know anyone who works in that world? I do.
    I’ve been told it isn’t at all the same as it was in 1982. What do you think?

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    Yeah, for a start define “US citizen”. Then bear in mind that Affirmative Action in the DOD associated world is something like 40 years old. A “born in America” Indian-American is worth more AA points than a whitemale, for example. The whitemale will be doing the work of himself and one other, we know that.
     
    Touché my man, touché.

    You are correct that, "Born in the USA," vibrants have infiltrated the defense industry.

    Do you know anyone who works in that world? I do.
     
    I've worked in that world for close to two decades, so I'd say, me.

    I’ve been told it isn’t at all the same as it was in 1982. What do you think?
     
    No, it's not. It's not even the same as it ever was when I started in 2002.

    Complimentary track: House of Pain - Same As It Ever Was:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZML5iehBaA
  76. @V. Hickel
    If it's not wrong, then why lie about it?

    If it’s not wrong, then why lie about it?

    Do you know what Martha Stewart was convicted of, and what she actually said/did?

  77. @anon
    The defense industry is getting desperate for talent due to the Boomers aging out of the workforce.

    Yeah, for a start define "US citizen". Then bear in mind that Affirmative Action in the DOD associated world is something like 40 years old. A "born in America" Indian-American is worth more AA points than a whitemale, for example. The whitemale will be doing the work of himself and one other, we know that.

    On the other hand, defense is trying to poz up in accordance with Fed rules.

    That is also a factor.

    Do you know anyone who works in that world? I do.
    I've been told it isn't at all the same as it was in 1982. What do you think?

    Yeah, for a start define “US citizen”. Then bear in mind that Affirmative Action in the DOD associated world is something like 40 years old. A “born in America” Indian-American is worth more AA points than a whitemale, for example. The whitemale will be doing the work of himself and one other, we know that.

    Touché my man, touché.

    You are correct that, “Born in the USA,” vibrants have infiltrated the defense industry.

    Do you know anyone who works in that world? I do.

    I’ve worked in that world for close to two decades, so I’d say, me.

    I’ve been told it isn’t at all the same as it was in 1982. What do you think?

    No, it’s not. It’s not even the same as it ever was when I started in 2002.

    Complimentary track: House of Pain – Same As It Ever Was:

  78. @Anonymous
    Not just Chinese, but also Russian medical aid to Europe is being called "faulty" and "useless".

    There is currently a propaganda war being waged between the US and China (and to a lesser extent, Russia) over the response to this outbreak.

    "Chinese, Russian Corona Aid Is 80% Useless (Says CIA?)"

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/chinese-russian-corona-aid-is-80-useless-says-cia/

    There is currently a propaganda war being waged between the US and China (and to a lesser extent, Russia) over the response to this outbreak.

    Agreed. Given how badly the US Government has handled the crisis it is necessary to find a scapegoat. China is the scapegoat of choice for the American Right.

    Ron Unz made a very good point about the US being basically a state that is run by the Ministry of Propaganda. Anything the US Government tells you is propaganda.

  79. @anon

    Who knows what the quality is of the factories making them...
     
    This "far-right lunatic" on Twitter has been all over the coronavirus from the start, broadly accurate (where proveable thus far), and usually weeks if not months ahead of accepted fact. (More or less, anyway, I haven't bothered checking it all out. I'm just pre-ambling because a lot of people would be prone to dismiss him as a racist/conspiracy theorist/whatever.)

    He reports, here</a and here, that Chinese masks received recently in the Netherlands and Spain haven't been up to snuff.

    This makes sense: whatever control processes are usually in place in Chinese factories (the same processes that didn't catch melamine in the baby formula) have probably not been working at their normal effectiveness since about the time a pandemic broke out and the gov't shut the country down. And to the extent that the Chinese are capable of determining which mask-batches were at par and which weren't, I'd suppose that they'd keep the good ones for themselves.

    This needn't be some sinister plot on the part of Mao's head-in-a-jar, either: how confident are you that some Chinese businessman wouldn't try to palm off a bunch of dodgy, ineffective masks on some foreign devils? "Oh, so solly, bok gweilo, reprace-a-ment masku on way 4-6 months, tsank-a-u velly much lol"

    The oligarchs needs to return manufacturing to the U.S.

  80. @Anon
    chinese mask quality control.
    https://twitter.com/PhdParody/status/1244447950199234560

    Right. It’s anonymous and on the internetz so it must be true. Was the spoof filmed in Taiwan, Hong Kong, or Los Angeles? Looks like the work space is closed or everyone but this clown is on break.

  81. @Anon
    $12 per mask doesn't seem that egregious, especially since the masks went to a doctor who presumably needs them more than most people and is likely to share them with other doctors, health care workers, family and acquaintances that need them more than most people. And the doctor is also going to be able to afford that markup.

    If you don't have some degree of price gouging, you just have the situation we had with toilet paper, where people cleared the shelves of cheap toilet paper and keep an excess supply in their garages indefinitely and off the market. You have hoarding and shortages all the same, with even less supply entering the market.

    There are no doubt people out there who bought up a ton of masks, more than they ever would use personally, with no intention of selling them for big markups but just out of fear or a hoarding instinct. They're just sitting idly in their closets and garages. It'd be better if that supply did enter the market, even at a markup.

    $12 per mask doesn’t seem that egregious

    It’s not right. That profiteer should be fired out of a cannon into a pond full of pig-slop.

  82. @V. Hickel
    If it's not wrong, then why lie about it?

    I have many such questions:

    If you are an honest man, then why not let the police search your house?

    If you are not a criminal, then why do you need a gun?

  83. @Anonymous
    I'm pretty sure Loki is a fed. He's based in the DC area, and spends most of his time promoting conspiracy theories to rope in the alt-right, not just the standard theories, but the more retarded and fanciful ones, like Atlantis, the Middle Ages being a forgery, etc. But when it comes to foreign policy issues, he always comes around to toeing the official US government line.

    Christ, is there no-one we can trust?

  84. I’ve got some leftover dust masks (not N95 rated) in a job box and I’ve been reading that iodine soaked in masks, or in a liner, will kill viruses.

    Does anybody know anything about this??

  85. anon[286] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sam Haysom
    The laziness seems to have infected your and Ron’s clan too. Of course they know the code to stand out- slip a reference to Birthright into their application.

    I notice you didn’t mention anything about the loophole which drives Jews most petulant in envious rage- the jock loop hole. Been kind of a dry spell since Sandy Koufax in that area.


    I know I know it’s tawdry to talk about your clan even while you shit tall whites.

    At that level of academics, Jews aren’t uncompetitive athletes relative to gentile whites and blacks. Especially since a lot of Ivy League collegiate sports are relatively niche ones like fencing, crew, squash, etc. and not just the stereotypically jock ones like football.

    Sure, you might have trouble finding 70 300 lb. Jewish guys to fill out your Ivy League football team roster, but plenty of Jewish kids play on the other sports teams. Hell, even Asian kids aren’t that uncompetitive at that level. Jeremy Lin was the first Harvard basketball player to play in the NBA since the 1950s.

  86. @dearieme
    There have been reports from Czechia, Spain, and The Netherlands of dangerously ineffective Chinese medical supplies having been received.

    Of course, that doesn't alter the possibility that the FDA has been completely taken over by enemies of the US population. That is surly a normal fate for any fedgov bureaucracy?

    The FDA is a stumbling block to effective COVID-19 response AND Chinese quality control is lousy–no reason both can’t be true.

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