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From my new movie review in Taki’s Magazine:

Crazy Conspicuous Consumption
by Steve Sailer

August 22, 2018

Crazy Rich Asians, Hollywood’s new romantic comedy about a Chinese-American young lady and her aristocratic Singaporean boyfriend attending a lavish high-society wedding, is widely praised for being “inclusive” and “diverse” because—follow me closely here—the cast is comprised almost exclusively of East Asians playing Singapore’s most snobbish Chinese billionaires.

… this current trend of racial solidarity celebration movies, such as last winter’s Black Panther, tends to be inherently conservative.

One difference between the two movies, however: While Wakanda and Singapore are both right-wing authoritarian utopias, Singapore actually exists.

Read the whole thing there.

 
• Tags: Movies 
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  1. Singapore actually exists.

    As does Hong Kong, Shanghai, and Beijing, etc etc.

    It’s almost as if some cultures have capabilities.

    • Replies: @Anon
    As does Hong Kong, Shanghai, and Beijing, etc etc.
    It’s almost as if some cultures have capabilities.


    Not for long. I would bet on Planet of the Apu as Indians still produce life. East Asians produce wealth but no life. They will be replaced. And as they're educated in the West, they are welcoming replacement as necessary and good.

    But maybe Singapore and HK can last longer because they can take in mainland Chinese.
    But Japan and SK? They will fade in half a century.
  2. Your ethnicity designations are off:

    -Yul Brynner may or may not have had 1/4 ancestry from one of the Asianish tribes in Russia. But even if he did, he wasn’t very Asian.

    -Bruce Lee was probably 7/8ths Asian, although a new book claims, without much proof, that he was 5/8ths.

    -Keanu Reeves is a very small fraction Asian, less than 1/8th most likely. He’s about one quarter non-white overall, with most of that quarter being Hawaiian. In any case, I highly doubt the casting or non-casting of Reeves had anything to do with this movie.

    As for Gemma Chan, it would seem that her mother is fully Asian, not half.
    https://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/culture/tv-radio/interview-gemma-chan-star-of-true-love-1-2321152

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    Gemma Chan does not look like a "Melania Asian." You can not tell she is 1/4 white. She looks totally Asian. Saying Chan looks whitish is like saying Rashida Jones can play Italians. I've seen more Mexicans who look Italian.

    Also, Henry Golding looks totally Asian. His mother is white, but the Asian genes were dominant. His wife Liv Lo is 1/2 Italian and 1/2 Chinese. There's nothing Italian about her either.

    If Derbyshire is reading these comments, he better get over his incredibly degenerate fantasy of a white - Northeast Asian alliance.

    Henry Golding, Gemma Chan confirm what I've said before: hapas will almost always stay Asians.

  3. So, what is the message of this movie? Asian male market value is so low that he needs a billion dollars to get a girl?

    • Replies: @Alden
    I read the book. It’s more or less derived from the Shopaholic books. Shopaholic books are set in Britain

    I doubt any unz readers would enjoy the movie. The book was just a chick shopping book with multi billionaire Chinese instead of Americans and Europeans.
    , @The Alarmist

    "So, what is the message of this movie? Asian male market value is so low that he needs a billion dollars to get a girl?"
     
    No, the price of Asian poontang has gone way up.
  4. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Singapore actually exists.
     
    As does Hong Kong, Shanghai, and Beijing, etc etc.

    It's almost as if some cultures have capabilities.

    As does Hong Kong, Shanghai, and Beijing, etc etc.
    It’s almost as if some cultures have capabilities.

    Not for long. I would bet on Planet of the Apu as Indians still produce life. East Asians produce wealth but no life. They will be replaced. And as they’re educated in the West, they are welcoming replacement as necessary and good.

    But maybe Singapore and HK can last longer because they can take in mainland Chinese.
    But Japan and SK? They will fade in half a century.

    • Disagree: Che Guava
    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    also economic growth is not hard to achieve when you simply stop to reproduce as a nation. What makes life hard for adults is combining job and having children. Without children modern life and being successful is easy.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    East Asians produce wealth but no life. They will be replaced. And as they’re educated in the West, they are welcoming replacement as necessary and good.

     

    Tiny Peking Duck?
    , @El Dato

    East Asians produce wealth but no life. They will be replaced.
     
    We will see about the replacement thing once the engineered version of Life comes out of the lab.

    It's gonna be fun.

    Till then, patience.
  5. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    “One obvious problem with the film’s gimmick of an all-Asian cast is that East Asians, at least those who aren’t mixed race, tend to look alike.”

    One doesn’t have this problem watching Japanese films like SEVEN SAMURAI. Everyone is distinct.
    I can’t imagine mistaking Mifune or Shimura for anyone else. Also, each is developed as a character.

    But in Hollywood movies, Asians are presented as a type, and so audience is more likely to see types than individuals, so they just merge together as ‘Asians’.

    Ironically, Asians may today look more alike because so many get plastic surgery to look ‘western’.

    • Replies: @Logan
    I recently watched Red Cliff, the Chinese war epic.

    With the exception of a few characters with distinctive features, I had one hell of a time telling them apart.

    But I strongly suspect this is not because "they all look alike," it's because we're not used to picking up on the subtle differences in Asian faces that we easily pick out in types we're more familiar with. I've seen studied demonstrating that to East Asians, us white types all look pretty much alike too.

    It's simply a case of what we're used to.
    , @Dumbo
    Also in Ozu films characters have very different faces and it is easy to distinguish them (even though he uses the same actors over and over again). But in Chinese and Chinese-American films I have more difficulty. Could be that the Japanese have more facial diversity than Chinese or Koreans? Or could be that your explanation is right. Now many Hollywood action movies have some dumb Chinese sub-plot, I suppose to sell it better in China, but the characters are all very generic.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    I wonder why Japanese movies seem to have gotten totally wrecked - I watched a few recent ones and its obvious that acting quality has plummeted. I think it has something to do with the lack of money going into movies now, etc. Still surprising.
  6. I am married to an economics professor and can confirm the unworldliness is not an unrealistic personality trait.

    • Replies: @Anonym

    I am married to an economics professor and can confirm the unworldliness is not an unrealistic personality trait.
     
    *Lifts up hood

    *Sees belief in homo economicus assumption

    "Well there's your problem right there!"
    , @Altai
    It's a necessary trait to believe the nonsense they have to teach.
  7. We business school students weren’t the most ascetic of scholars

    Ha! One suspects that was British tier understatement. But who knows.

  8. Anon[126] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    There’s a hilarious dust-up in the U.K. right now over television chef Jamie Oliver’s cultural appropriation of Jamaica in the form of a microwavable “jerk rice” product.

    A member of pariliament has jumped into the fray. A Jamaican chef-entrepreneur is hoping that Jamie had nothing to do with this atrocity and that it was a cock-up by his staff.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-45246009

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/20/jamie-olivers-jerk-rice-dish-a-mistake-says-jamaica-born-chef

    Jamie has issued a statement:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/jamie-oliver-jerk-rice-row-chef-responds-to-accusations-of-cultural-appropriation-a3916311.html

    In the course of watching news shows about this I saw a white male newsreader read the Wikipedia definition of “cultural appropriation,” and I may have detected a slight note of sarcasm in his voice. In any event, the definition threw me, becasue it’s been racismized: defined in such a way that only white people can culturally appropriate, while the Great Underrepresented can rip off stuff to their heart’s content. I think that this also explains why a second generation Korean American can accuse a white American of cultural appropriation for making a Korean dish, even though the white may have lived in Korea and worked at a Korean restaurant for years and the Korean American grew up eating macaroni and cheese.

    Wikipedia: Cultural appropriation is the adoption of elements of a minority culture by members of the dominant culture. It is distinguished from an equal cultural exchange due to an imbalance of power, often as a byproduct of colonialism and oppression.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    A lot of people these days feel, deep down, that they deserve to get an intellectual property royalty check in the mail every month for the various contributions of their race, such as inventing jerk chicken, the way that F. Scott Fitzgerald's granddaughter got a "Great Gatsby" royalty check until very recently.
    , @Crew Cut Man
    Gotta love Wikipedia. "Good racism, as opposed to bad racism..." Bad racism is when a white person does something, like breathing.
    , @res
    How exactly do they define "minority" and "dominant"? Do these terms change meaning depending on the country in question? (hint, if this is not just a load of who,whom BS--which I think it is--then the terms should change meaning in different countries)
    , @Lurker

    I think that this also explains why a second generation Korean American can accuse a white American of cultural appropriation for making a Korean dish
     
    In English, on the internet.
    , @ben tillman

    In any event, the definition threw me, becasue it’s been racismized: defined in such a way that only white people can culturally appropriate. . . .
     
    Racismized? You've got be kidding! "Cultural appropriation" is a brand new term that has never meant anything other than "Fuck you, Whitey!"
  9. An interesting idea for a prequel would follow the development of the rich family into its wealth, starting in pre-war Singapore, then covering the Japanese invasion and occupation, independence, etc.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Yeah, I don’t think you’re talking about the same business.
    , @Twinkie
    But that would be a serious movie.
  10. @Ali Choudhury
    I am married to an economics professor and can confirm the unworldliness is not an unrealistic personality trait.

    I am married to an economics professor and can confirm the unworldliness is not an unrealistic personality trait.

    *Lifts up hood

    *Sees belief in homo economicus assumption

    “Well there’s your problem right there!”

  11. @Anon
    OT

    There's a hilarious dust-up in the U.K. right now over television chef Jamie Oliver's cultural appropriation of Jamaica in the form of a microwavable "jerk rice" product.

    A member of pariliament has jumped into the fray. A Jamaican chef-entrepreneur is hoping that Jamie had nothing to do with this atrocity and that it was a cock-up by his staff.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-45246009

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/20/jamie-olivers-jerk-rice-dish-a-mistake-says-jamaica-born-chef

    Jamie has issued a statement:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/jamie-oliver-jerk-rice-row-chef-responds-to-accusations-of-cultural-appropriation-a3916311.html

    In the course of watching news shows about this I saw a white male newsreader read the Wikipedia definition of "cultural appropriation," and I may have detected a slight note of sarcasm in his voice. In any event, the definition threw me, becasue it's been racismized: defined in such a way that only white people can culturally appropriate, while the Great Underrepresented can rip off stuff to their heart's content. I think that this also explains why a second generation Korean American can accuse a white American of cultural appropriation for making a Korean dish, even though the white may have lived in Korea and worked at a Korean restaurant for years and the Korean American grew up eating macaroni and cheese.


    Wikipedia: Cultural appropriation is the adoption of elements of a minority culture by members of the dominant culture. It is distinguished from an equal cultural exchange due to an imbalance of power, often as a byproduct of colonialism and oppression.
     

    A lot of people these days feel, deep down, that they deserve to get an intellectual property royalty check in the mail every month for the various contributions of their race, such as inventing jerk chicken, the way that F. Scott Fitzgerald’s granddaughter got a “Great Gatsby” royalty check until very recently.

    • Agree: kissinger
    • Replies: @Muse
    That sounds great to me. They can keep the jerk chicken royalties. Tesla was from my family’s hometown. If I get a cut of the royalties for AC generation, transmission and AC motors, I think I can live on that. Add that to the inventions of my scots, German and English ancestors and I think I am in the money. Oh wait, maybe that is exactly what happened.
    , @Stan d Mute

    A lot of people these days feel, deep down, that they deserve to get an intellectual property royalty check in the mail every month for the various contributions of their race
     
    And by some crazy cosmic inexplicable process, almost like quantum entanglement, these are invariably the exact same people without an intellect unworthy of capitalization. Ah, the mysteries of our Universe.

    Is there another Sailer’s Law lurking here somewhere?
    , @L Woods
    Of course, such royalties for white men would outstrip the ability of the planet’s taxbase to pay many times over.
  12. Broke Hollywood: Money isn’t everything.

    Woke Hollywood: Ha-ha, you believed us the first time! Money is totally everything.

    Chinese movies are pretty good, especially the historical ones. Their action movies achieve a level of stupidity that leaves you with a “stupidity high” that lasts for days.

    I think the reason nobody seems to care about Chinese movies anymore is that the Chinese stopped feeling that they needed western approval, so they stopped catering to whitey’s idea of “art” or ” vibrating vibrancy” or whatever movie reviewing hacks want to see. They’re making them for themselves now.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Sounds plausible.
    , @The Last Real Calvinist

    They’re making them for themselves now.

     

    Maybe.

    The Hong Kong film industry was a Big Thing back in the 1990s when I moved here. Now, eh, there are still locally-made movies coming out regularly, but there seems to be much less excitement/anticipation.

    I wonder if the ubiquity of pirating in this region has taken the wind out of the local film industry's sails.

    , @Daniel Chieh
    I really liked Lost On Journey(人在囧途) myself from 2010. It wasn't really marketed in the West, I think, but it was rather well done and pertinent on a number of things of China: poverty in the outlands, con-artists faking a living, mistress culture, and the entitled rich often failing to see issues in front of them.
  13. Anon[126] • Disclaimer says:

    OT Jamie Oliver

    [Yikes, just read Steve’s comment, which appeared while I was writing this. So this comment is a bit redundant.]

    It occurred to me that this jerk rice thing in conjunction with the woke definition of cultural appropriation is the precursor to a literal implementation of Steve’s analysis of cultural appropriation as the feeling among minorities that they should be getting a monthly check from taxes levied on whitey.

    Oliver licensed his name to the producer of jerk rice, and he’s getting paid for it. Under cultural approriation theory (CAT), a Jamaincan guy, or a person of Jamaican ancestry, could “invent” jerk rice and nobody would complain. (Jamie’s jerk rice is a problem because he doesn’t use allspice, and jerked food has traditionally been chicken and pork, among other things besides his race.) A Jamaican person’s jerk rice would be “culinary innovation” under CAT, not cultural appropriation. So he could license it to a food producer and get monthly checks.

    Meanwhile, any URM could “notice” a case of commercial cultural appropriate, raise a Twitter storm, and drive the appropriator out of business. Next step, develop one’s own version, and license it to get the monthly check. Any sort of new food would require a check to a minority to be issued, unless the food had zero non-white lineage. Companies would find URM to use to launder new foods. “We’re paying a URM, so it’s O.K.”

    It would be a racket simlar to all the divesity and inclusion jobs and advertising and commercial “person of vaguely non-white ethnicity” modeling and acting jobs. Also, a new job category of bias editor has arisen in the publishing industry, where they hire someone to read new novel manuscripts that they have bought, or are thinking of buying, to identify implicit bias that would need to be sanitized out (or to insulation publishers from responsibility when bias is inevitably found).

    I imagine that a URM consulting industry would arise that offers cultural auditing services to companies about to issue new food products. O.K., it’s pizza, and that’s pretty much white, but actually there is an Africana studies professor who claims that pizza was invented in Africa, the auditor might discover.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    A lot of people aspire to a career in being paid to go away.
    , @Crew Cut Man

    Companies would find URM to use to launder new foods. “We’re paying a URM, so it’s O.K.”
     
    Great. Another kosher food racket.
    , @Lurker
    URM?
  14. The guardian had a beautiful review of this yesterday, truly beyond parody:

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/21/where-are-the-brown-people-crazy-rich-asians-draws-tepid-response-in-singapore

    In a two-part takedown of the film, Sangeetha Thanapal, an activist and writer of Singapore-Indian origin whose work explores Chinese privilege, said the film “simply is not the ‘Great Asian Hope’ that it is being portrayed as”.

    “While it is being billed as an Asian movie, it is made up almost entirely of east Asians,” said Thanapal. “The few brown people featured in it are seen in service positions to the glamorous and wealthy Chinese characters. The dominance of east Asia in the worldwide imagination of who constitutes the idea of Asia is troubling, especially since brown Asians make up a sizable portion of the continent.”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    As I said in my review, "Why the movie isn't entitled 'Crazy Rich Chinese' is never explained."

    And tan Asians make up another large part of Asia. Assad, for example, isn't very brown.

    Asia is really big.

    , @kihowi
    People generally have immense trouble with words with multiple definitions. Especially when definitions nest, ie when definition 2 is part of definition 1. This causes a lot of flamewars.

    When Americans talk about Asians they mean people with yellow skin and slitty eyes. The word is only used like this because it was the only possible alternative to words like chinaman when pc started happening. Nobody calls jews or persians Asians. Even though they're all Asians.

    , @LFM
    The thing is that in Britain, where the Guardian article was published, 'Asian' means a person whose ethnic origins are in the Indian sub-continent, as it was once known. (Even there it includes a wide range of complexions, eye colours, and facial features.) So the problem here is with English vs American usage of the term Asian. Sangeetha Thanapal is feeling left out.
    , @Q
    Nobody's stopping the Indians from making their own version: Crazy Poor Indians.
    , @res
    It's almost as if in reality YT is not the only racist. Who would have thunk it...
    , @Stan d Mute

    brown Asians make up a sizable portion of the continent.”
     
    And nearly 100% of the brown piles of fecal matter found on the continent’s streets and stoops.
  15. @a-non
    The guardian had a beautiful review of this yesterday, truly beyond parody:

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/21/where-are-the-brown-people-crazy-rich-asians-draws-tepid-response-in-singapore


    In a two-part takedown of the film, Sangeetha Thanapal, an activist and writer of Singapore-Indian origin whose work explores Chinese privilege, said the film “simply is not the ‘Great Asian Hope’ that it is being portrayed as”.

    “While it is being billed as an Asian movie, it is made up almost entirely of east Asians,” said Thanapal. “The few brown people featured in it are seen in service positions to the glamorous and wealthy Chinese characters. The dominance of east Asia in the worldwide imagination of who constitutes the idea of Asia is troubling, especially since brown Asians make up a sizable portion of the continent.”

     

    As I said in my review, “Why the movie isn’t entitled ‘Crazy Rich Chinese’ is never explained.”

    And tan Asians make up another large part of Asia. Assad, for example, isn’t very brown.

    Asia is really big.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute

    Asia is really big.
     
    That reminds me, have you seen this?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2445615/True-size-Africa-continent-big-China-India-US-Europe-together.html

    So since Africa is bigger than China, India, USA, and EU combined, it can easily accommodate 4,000,000,000 people in opulent luxury especially given Wakandan sciencey stuff. So just shut up about African “overpopulation” and watch more Neil deGrasse Tyson videos you dumb crackers. Any minute now Tyson is gonna rediscover the secret Africans used to fly before you all stole it.
    , @syonredux

    Assad, for example, isn’t very brown.
     
    That's putting it mildly.....

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/2820244-3x2-940x627.jpg
    , @Bucky
    The word “oriental” was much more accurate and descriptive.
    , @Chuck
    Grouping Syria with South Korea is ridiculous. Geographers need to get their act together.
  16. @Anon
    OT Jamie Oliver

    [Yikes, just read Steve's comment, which appeared while I was writing this. So this comment is a bit redundant.]

    It occurred to me that this jerk rice thing in conjunction with the woke definition of cultural appropriation is the precursor to a literal implementation of Steve's analysis of cultural appropriation as the feeling among minorities that they should be getting a monthly check from taxes levied on whitey.

    Oliver licensed his name to the producer of jerk rice, and he's getting paid for it. Under cultural approriation theory (CAT), a Jamaincan guy, or a person of Jamaican ancestry, could "invent" jerk rice and nobody would complain. (Jamie's jerk rice is a problem because he doesn't use allspice, and jerked food has traditionally been chicken and pork, among other things besides his race.) A Jamaican person's jerk rice would be "culinary innovation" under CAT, not cultural appropriation. So he could license it to a food producer and get monthly checks.

    Meanwhile, any URM could "notice" a case of commercial cultural appropriate, raise a Twitter storm, and drive the appropriator out of business. Next step, develop one's own version, and license it to get the monthly check. Any sort of new food would require a check to a minority to be issued, unless the food had zero non-white lineage. Companies would find URM to use to launder new foods. "We're paying a URM, so it's O.K."

    It would be a racket simlar to all the divesity and inclusion jobs and advertising and commercial "person of vaguely non-white ethnicity" modeling and acting jobs. Also, a new job category of bias editor has arisen in the publishing industry, where they hire someone to read new novel manuscripts that they have bought, or are thinking of buying, to identify implicit bias that would need to be sanitized out (or to insulation publishers from responsibility when bias is inevitably found).

    I imagine that a URM consulting industry would arise that offers cultural auditing services to companies about to issue new food products. O.K., it's pizza, and that's pretty much white, but actually there is an Africana studies professor who claims that pizza was invented in Africa, the auditor might discover.

    A lot of people aspire to a career in being paid to go away.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The second oldest profession.
  17. @kihowi
    Broke Hollywood: Money isn't everything.

    Woke Hollywood: Ha-ha, you believed us the first time! Money is totally everything.

    Chinese movies are pretty good, especially the historical ones. Their action movies achieve a level of stupidity that leaves you with a "stupidity high" that lasts for days.

    I think the reason nobody seems to care about Chinese movies anymore is that the Chinese stopped feeling that they needed western approval, so they stopped catering to whitey's idea of "art" or " vibrating vibrancy" or whatever movie reviewing hacks want to see. They're making them for themselves now.

    Sounds plausible.

  18. @kihowi
    Broke Hollywood: Money isn't everything.

    Woke Hollywood: Ha-ha, you believed us the first time! Money is totally everything.

    Chinese movies are pretty good, especially the historical ones. Their action movies achieve a level of stupidity that leaves you with a "stupidity high" that lasts for days.

    I think the reason nobody seems to care about Chinese movies anymore is that the Chinese stopped feeling that they needed western approval, so they stopped catering to whitey's idea of "art" or " vibrating vibrancy" or whatever movie reviewing hacks want to see. They're making them for themselves now.

    They’re making them for themselves now.

    Maybe.

    The Hong Kong film industry was a Big Thing back in the 1990s when I moved here. Now, eh, there are still locally-made movies coming out regularly, but there seems to be much less excitement/anticipation.

    I wonder if the ubiquity of pirating in this region has taken the wind out of the local film industry’s sails.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    The Chinese may have to develop a bit of respect for intellectual property.
    , @Twinkie

    The Hong Kong film industry was a Big Thing back in the 1990s when I moved here.
     
    The last Hong Kong movie I enjoyed was “Infernal Affairs” which was ruinously remade as “The Departed.”

    Even Japanese cinema seems to be in the doldrums lately. On the other hand, the South Korean film industry seems to be in the high right now. Quite a few are available on Netflix, and I’m surprised that young Europeans and Americans seem to know Korean actors/actresses. Maybe they are benefiting from the K-drama and K-pop-fueled “Korean Wave.”
  19. @a-non
    The guardian had a beautiful review of this yesterday, truly beyond parody:

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/21/where-are-the-brown-people-crazy-rich-asians-draws-tepid-response-in-singapore


    In a two-part takedown of the film, Sangeetha Thanapal, an activist and writer of Singapore-Indian origin whose work explores Chinese privilege, said the film “simply is not the ‘Great Asian Hope’ that it is being portrayed as”.

    “While it is being billed as an Asian movie, it is made up almost entirely of east Asians,” said Thanapal. “The few brown people featured in it are seen in service positions to the glamorous and wealthy Chinese characters. The dominance of east Asia in the worldwide imagination of who constitutes the idea of Asia is troubling, especially since brown Asians make up a sizable portion of the continent.”

     

    People generally have immense trouble with words with multiple definitions. Especially when definitions nest, ie when definition 2 is part of definition 1. This causes a lot of flamewars.

    When Americans talk about Asians they mean people with yellow skin and slitty eyes. The word is only used like this because it was the only possible alternative to words like chinaman when pc started happening. Nobody calls jews or persians Asians. Even though they’re all Asians.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Americans used to have a term called "Oriental" for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.

    This caused some confusion because the British used "Oriental" for Middle Easterners: e.g., Edward Said's "Orientalism" is not at all interested in what the British call the "Far East."

    The real confusion came around 1982 when the feds transferred South Asians from Caucasian to Asian to qualify South Asian businessmen for low interest SBA loans and minority privileges in government contracting.

    Why not make South Asians their own category?

  20. I saw the trailers for this, and saw some of the self-congratulation about how this is “ground-breaking” or some such rot, but it looks (from the trailers) and sounds (from your review) like a story I’ve seen with an all-Asian cast probably 100 times already, because I watch a lot of junky Korean and Japanese TV dramas.

    I don’t watch many Taiwanese dramas because I don’t speak Chinese, but even with Korean, I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it with a girl coming back from America before too . . although I think the usual set-up is poor woman in Korea meets wealthy heir to a conglomerate who has been frittering away his time playing around in Australia or the United States or wherever, but the time has come for him to put away childish things so he is returning to the Fatherland. While Korean TV dramas occasionally have White or half-White men in prominent roles, they’re usually set up to be the romantic false lead, after which the heroine wises up and falls in love with a proper Korean. I recall one from a few years ago where the White is already her fiance in episode one, and there’s zero narrative tension about whether she’s going to break up with him and marry this random Korean man her family found for her because of course she is going to.

    Anyhow. There’s absolutely nothing groundbreaking about doing a story like this, even with an Asian cast. Heck, if any of them are Chinese actors/actresses, they may have acted out the plot of this movie a dozen times already, for the Chinese market.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.

    In this movie, nobody seems to notice that the actor playing the Mr. Darcy dreamboat boyfriend character is obviously quite white.

    But that possibility isn't foreclosed for a sequel, either. The character's name is "Nick Young," not "Yung," and his family is Christian (the ladies are shown holding a Bible study session). So it's left a possibility that the boyfriend's father is descended in his patrilineal line from a British tai-pan named Young rather than a Chinese Yung. And it's specifically set up that the fiance's dad could show up at any time rather than that he's dead or whatever.

    The people who made the movie aren't dumb, so they might be thinking about bringing in Keanu Reeves or Dean Cain or another handsome Eurasian star in the sequel to play the boyfriend's father, and claim that is okay under their (broadly defined) All-Asian Cast rule. But they also probably don't want to get themselves in a position in which the agents of the tiny number of 50-something Eurasian handsome guys like Reeves and Cain can hold them up for a big payday. So they seem to be keeping their options open.

    Also, in this movie they briefly introduce at the very end as old flame of the beautiful part white cousiness played by Gemma Chan, a guy who is almost a dead ringer for Joseph Gordon-Levitt, the American movie star whom everybody thinks is 1/4 Asian although he says he's 100% Jewish. But the actor turns out to be some Chinese pop star raised in Costa Rica and California who is good at Western facial expressions.

    In general, the franchise seems to me to need a little more Hollywood movie star firepower to really cash in on future installments. But don't rule out the producers pulling a rabbit out of their sleeves.

    , @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.

    In this movie, nobody seems to notice that the actor playing the Mr. Darcy dreamboat boyfriend character is obviously quite white.

    But that possibility isn't foreclosed for a sequel, either. The character's name is "Nick Young," not "Yung," and his family is Christian (the ladies are shown holding a Bible study session). So it's left a possibility that the boyfriend's father is descended in his patrilineal line from a British tai-pan named Young rather than a Chinese Yung. And it's specifically set up that the fiance's dad could show up at any time rather than that he's dead or whatever.

    The people who made the movie aren't dumb, so they might be thinking about bringing in Keanu Reeves or Dean Cain or another handsome Eurasian star in the sequel to play the boyfriend's father, and claim that is okay under their (broadly defined) All-Asian Cast rule. But they also probably don't want to get themselves in a position in which the agents of the tiny number of 50-something Eurasian handsome guys like Reeves and Cain can hold them up for a big payday. So they seem to be keeping their options open.

    Also, in this movie they briefly introduce at the very end as old flame of the beautiful part white cousiness played by Gemma Chan, a guy who is almost a dead ringer for Joseph Gordon-Levitt, the American movie star whom everybody thinks is 1/4 Asian although he says he's 100% Jewish. But the actor turns out to be some Chinese pop star raised in Costa Rica and California who is good at Western facial expressions.

    In general, the franchise seems to me to need a little more Hollywood movie star firepower to really cash in on future installments. But don't rule out the producers pulling a rabbit out of their sleeves.

    , @Lurker

    While Korean TV dramas occasionally have White or half-White men in prominent roles, they’re usually set up to be the romantic false lead, after which the heroine wises up and falls in love with a proper Korean. I recall one from a few years ago where the White is already her fiance in episode one, and there’s zero narrative tension about whether she’s going to break up with him and marry this random Korean man her family found for her because of course she is going to.
     
    I continually point out the parallel failure of narrative tension in western crime shows. The black suspect always turns out to be innocent. The tension can only come from guessing whether he was framed (by police or racists) whether he was nobly taking the rap for a white women, accused by a scorned white woman and so on.
    , @Lurker

    While Korean TV dramas occasionally have White or half-White men in prominent roles, they’re usually set up to be the romantic false lead, after which the heroine wises up and falls in love with a proper Korean. I recall one from a few years ago where the White is already her fiance in episode one, and there’s zero narrative tension about whether she’s going to break up with him and marry this random Korean man her family found for her because of course she is going to.
     
    I continually point out the parallel failure of narrative tension in western crime shows. The black suspect always turns out to be innocent. The tension can only come from guessing whether he was framed (by police or racists) whether he was nobly taking the rap for a white woman, accused by a scorned white woman and so on.
    , @syonredux

    I saw the trailers for this, and saw some of the self-congratulation about how this is “ground-breaking” or some such rot, but it looks (from the trailers) and sounds (from your review) like a story I’ve seen with an all-Asian cast probably 100 times already, because I watch a lot of junky Korean and Japanese TV dramas.
     
    Get WOKE, bigot. It only counts when the movie/TV show is made by Hollywood.
  21. @Anon
    OT

    There's a hilarious dust-up in the U.K. right now over television chef Jamie Oliver's cultural appropriation of Jamaica in the form of a microwavable "jerk rice" product.

    A member of pariliament has jumped into the fray. A Jamaican chef-entrepreneur is hoping that Jamie had nothing to do with this atrocity and that it was a cock-up by his staff.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-45246009

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/20/jamie-olivers-jerk-rice-dish-a-mistake-says-jamaica-born-chef

    Jamie has issued a statement:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/jamie-oliver-jerk-rice-row-chef-responds-to-accusations-of-cultural-appropriation-a3916311.html

    In the course of watching news shows about this I saw a white male newsreader read the Wikipedia definition of "cultural appropriation," and I may have detected a slight note of sarcasm in his voice. In any event, the definition threw me, becasue it's been racismized: defined in such a way that only white people can culturally appropriate, while the Great Underrepresented can rip off stuff to their heart's content. I think that this also explains why a second generation Korean American can accuse a white American of cultural appropriation for making a Korean dish, even though the white may have lived in Korea and worked at a Korean restaurant for years and the Korean American grew up eating macaroni and cheese.


    Wikipedia: Cultural appropriation is the adoption of elements of a minority culture by members of the dominant culture. It is distinguished from an equal cultural exchange due to an imbalance of power, often as a byproduct of colonialism and oppression.
     

    Gotta love Wikipedia. “Good racism, as opposed to bad racism…” Bad racism is when a white person does something, like breathing.

  22. @Anon
    OT Jamie Oliver

    [Yikes, just read Steve's comment, which appeared while I was writing this. So this comment is a bit redundant.]

    It occurred to me that this jerk rice thing in conjunction with the woke definition of cultural appropriation is the precursor to a literal implementation of Steve's analysis of cultural appropriation as the feeling among minorities that they should be getting a monthly check from taxes levied on whitey.

    Oliver licensed his name to the producer of jerk rice, and he's getting paid for it. Under cultural approriation theory (CAT), a Jamaincan guy, or a person of Jamaican ancestry, could "invent" jerk rice and nobody would complain. (Jamie's jerk rice is a problem because he doesn't use allspice, and jerked food has traditionally been chicken and pork, among other things besides his race.) A Jamaican person's jerk rice would be "culinary innovation" under CAT, not cultural appropriation. So he could license it to a food producer and get monthly checks.

    Meanwhile, any URM could "notice" a case of commercial cultural appropriate, raise a Twitter storm, and drive the appropriator out of business. Next step, develop one's own version, and license it to get the monthly check. Any sort of new food would require a check to a minority to be issued, unless the food had zero non-white lineage. Companies would find URM to use to launder new foods. "We're paying a URM, so it's O.K."

    It would be a racket simlar to all the divesity and inclusion jobs and advertising and commercial "person of vaguely non-white ethnicity" modeling and acting jobs. Also, a new job category of bias editor has arisen in the publishing industry, where they hire someone to read new novel manuscripts that they have bought, or are thinking of buying, to identify implicit bias that would need to be sanitized out (or to insulation publishers from responsibility when bias is inevitably found).

    I imagine that a URM consulting industry would arise that offers cultural auditing services to companies about to issue new food products. O.K., it's pizza, and that's pretty much white, but actually there is an Africana studies professor who claims that pizza was invented in Africa, the auditor might discover.

    Companies would find URM to use to launder new foods. “We’re paying a URM, so it’s O.K.”

    Great. Another kosher food racket.

  23. @Gimeiyo
    I saw the trailers for this, and saw some of the self-congratulation about how this is "ground-breaking" or some such rot, but it looks (from the trailers) and sounds (from your review) like a story I've seen with an all-Asian cast probably 100 times already, because I watch a lot of junky Korean and Japanese TV dramas.

    I don't watch many Taiwanese dramas because I don't speak Chinese, but even with Korean, I'm pretty sure I've seen it with a girl coming back from America before too . . although I think the usual set-up is poor woman in Korea meets wealthy heir to a conglomerate who has been frittering away his time playing around in Australia or the United States or wherever, but the time has come for him to put away childish things so he is returning to the Fatherland. While Korean TV dramas occasionally have White or half-White men in prominent roles, they're usually set up to be the romantic false lead, after which the heroine wises up and falls in love with a proper Korean. I recall one from a few years ago where the White is already her fiance in episode one, and there's zero narrative tension about whether she's going to break up with him and marry this random Korean man her family found for her because of course she is going to.

    Anyhow. There's absolutely nothing groundbreaking about doing a story like this, even with an Asian cast. Heck, if any of them are Chinese actors/actresses, they may have acted out the plot of this movie a dozen times already, for the Chinese market.

    Thanks.

    In this movie, nobody seems to notice that the actor playing the Mr. Darcy dreamboat boyfriend character is obviously quite white.

    But that possibility isn’t foreclosed for a sequel, either. The character’s name is “Nick Young,” not “Yung,” and his family is Christian (the ladies are shown holding a Bible study session). So it’s left a possibility that the boyfriend’s father is descended in his patrilineal line from a British tai-pan named Young rather than a Chinese Yung. And it’s specifically set up that the fiance’s dad could show up at any time rather than that he’s dead or whatever.

    The people who made the movie aren’t dumb, so they might be thinking about bringing in Keanu Reeves or Dean Cain or another handsome Eurasian star in the sequel to play the boyfriend’s father, and claim that is okay under their (broadly defined) All-Asian Cast rule. But they also probably don’t want to get themselves in a position in which the agents of the tiny number of 50-something Eurasian handsome guys like Reeves and Cain can hold them up for a big payday. So they seem to be keeping their options open.

    Also, in this movie they briefly introduce at the very end as old flame of the beautiful part white cousiness played by Gemma Chan, a guy who is almost a dead ringer for Joseph Gordon-Levitt, the American movie star whom everybody thinks is 1/4 Asian although he says he’s 100% Jewish. But the actor turns out to be some Chinese pop star raised in Costa Rica and California who is good at Western facial expressions.

    In general, the franchise seems to me to need a little more Hollywood movie star firepower to really cash in on future installments. But don’t rule out the producers pulling a rabbit out of their sleeves.

    • Replies: @Jesse
    The race of the actor playing the love interest is interesting because in the book, Kevin Kwan is clearly touchy as hell about Asian women going after white men. The heroine's original preference for white men is presented as a psychological reaction to never knowing her Asian father, and every Asian around her regards it as a terrible handicap. One of the great themes is her finally putting away childish (read: white) things and accepting her Chinese-ness, and getting with a nice Chinese boy.
  24. @Gimeiyo
    I saw the trailers for this, and saw some of the self-congratulation about how this is "ground-breaking" or some such rot, but it looks (from the trailers) and sounds (from your review) like a story I've seen with an all-Asian cast probably 100 times already, because I watch a lot of junky Korean and Japanese TV dramas.

    I don't watch many Taiwanese dramas because I don't speak Chinese, but even with Korean, I'm pretty sure I've seen it with a girl coming back from America before too . . although I think the usual set-up is poor woman in Korea meets wealthy heir to a conglomerate who has been frittering away his time playing around in Australia or the United States or wherever, but the time has come for him to put away childish things so he is returning to the Fatherland. While Korean TV dramas occasionally have White or half-White men in prominent roles, they're usually set up to be the romantic false lead, after which the heroine wises up and falls in love with a proper Korean. I recall one from a few years ago where the White is already her fiance in episode one, and there's zero narrative tension about whether she's going to break up with him and marry this random Korean man her family found for her because of course she is going to.

    Anyhow. There's absolutely nothing groundbreaking about doing a story like this, even with an Asian cast. Heck, if any of them are Chinese actors/actresses, they may have acted out the plot of this movie a dozen times already, for the Chinese market.

    Thanks.

    In this movie, nobody seems to notice that the actor playing the Mr. Darcy dreamboat boyfriend character is obviously quite white.

    But that possibility isn’t foreclosed for a sequel, either. The character’s name is “Nick Young,” not “Yung,” and his family is Christian (the ladies are shown holding a Bible study session). So it’s left a possibility that the boyfriend’s father is descended in his patrilineal line from a British tai-pan named Young rather than a Chinese Yung. And it’s specifically set up that the fiance’s dad could show up at any time rather than that he’s dead or whatever.

    The people who made the movie aren’t dumb, so they might be thinking about bringing in Keanu Reeves or Dean Cain or another handsome Eurasian star in the sequel to play the boyfriend’s father, and claim that is okay under their (broadly defined) All-Asian Cast rule. But they also probably don’t want to get themselves in a position in which the agents of the tiny number of 50-something Eurasian handsome guys like Reeves and Cain can hold them up for a big payday. So they seem to be keeping their options open.

    Also, in this movie they briefly introduce at the very end as old flame of the beautiful part white cousiness played by Gemma Chan, a guy who is almost a dead ringer for Joseph Gordon-Levitt, the American movie star whom everybody thinks is 1/4 Asian although he says he’s 100% Jewish. But the actor turns out to be some Chinese pop star raised in Costa Rica and California who is good at Western facial expressions.

    In general, the franchise seems to me to need a little more Hollywood movie star firepower to really cash in on future installments. But don’t rule out the producers pulling a rabbit out of their sleeves.

  25. @kihowi
    People generally have immense trouble with words with multiple definitions. Especially when definitions nest, ie when definition 2 is part of definition 1. This causes a lot of flamewars.

    When Americans talk about Asians they mean people with yellow skin and slitty eyes. The word is only used like this because it was the only possible alternative to words like chinaman when pc started happening. Nobody calls jews or persians Asians. Even though they're all Asians.

    Americans used to have a term called “Oriental” for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.

    This caused some confusion because the British used “Oriental” for Middle Easterners: e.g., Edward Said’s “Orientalism” is not at all interested in what the British call the “Far East.”

    The real confusion came around 1982 when the feds transferred South Asians from Caucasian to Asian to qualify South Asian businessmen for low interest SBA loans and minority privileges in government contracting.

    Why not make South Asians their own category?

    • Replies: @sb
    Asia is indeed a big place.
    May I suggest 3 or 4 sub categories viz:
    North East Asians
    South East Asians
    South Asians
    and
    Middle East and North African
    , @Anonymous
    When I hear “Asian” I think oriental. I never think of East Indian or Sri Lankan. As a kid I recall using the term Chinese as a generic term for anyone with East Asian features. When I encountered an East Asian person (whether Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese), I’d refer to them as Chinese or oriental. “That Chinese woman...” The area I grew up in also used the term “Coke” as a generic term for soda.

    I grew up in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s in a lily-white area. There were no East Asians at my elementary or middle school. East Asians were exotic and in far off lands. I’d only see them in magazines with Pan Am ads about travel to “the Orient”. An East Asian kid at my elementary school would’ve been an object of fascination as much as a blue-eyed, towheaded kid in a rural Chinese village.

    , @kissinger
    Wouldn't that make South Asians stand out as a very high achieving group, not unlike jews, arousing resentment & envy? Why would South Asians want the spotlight on them?

    A good South Asian instead would want to ensure that the Eye of Sauron remains on the Straight White Man and Becky.
    , @Mr. Anon
    For some reason "asians" came to be, or at least act, greatly offended by the term "oriental", although it is an entirely neutral term and a much more specific one then the overly broad "asians". It all happened around the time that a lot of people started making a living by being offended.
    , @Desiderius
    How about Dark Aryans?

    Give them a little edge.
    , @Cagey Beast
    Why not make South Asians their own category?

    The most useful working term for them is "Desi": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desi . People should use it more often.
    , @PiltdownMan
    The British mean South Asian when they say "Asian." Except for people in Rotherham and Rochdale. They are all British.

    Not that I'm insinuating anything. After all, Her Majesty's government began to address the puzzling question of the ethnicity of grooming gangs only late last month.

    https://www.thenational.ae/world/europe/uk-orders-research-into-ethnicity-of-sex-grooming-gangs-1.754357

    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Americans used to have a term called “Oriental” for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.
     
    I recall when "Oriental" was a fine word, and then when it suddenly became unacceptable in reference to the different flavors of yellowish people with black hair. It simply means "East" m the sense of the rising sun in the East. I suppose the objection was that these people are only from the East if you're from the West, so it's Western-centric or something. My Grandmother was unable to catch up with the times and continued using it for the rest of her life but mostly with respect to various Chop Suey merchants and their delivery slaves.

    Asian seems weird to me, not the least because it's perhaps even less precise than Oriental.
  26. One of my Malaysian students asked me to pirate some Korean TV shows for her, when I asked her if she speaks Korean she said “Can you put English subtitles on?”

  27. My theory on the decline of interest in Chinese movies is that Hollywood has spent the last 10-15 years catering to the Chinese market. Let’s face it, the result of that has been a serious dumbing down of movies. Hollywood keeps churning out movies like Transformers because they play well in China. Everyone knows it and the effect is to make people associate China with lousy movie choices. The thinking goes, if China likes those movies, how bad are the movies they make?

    Or we can say the lack of diversity in Chinese films is problematic.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    It would be cool if imdb broke out ratings by race, and you could search the top 250 lists. The Fast and The Furious probably gets an 8.7 in Hispanic imdb, it's like their version of The Godfather.
  28. @Steve Sailer
    Americans used to have a term called "Oriental" for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.

    This caused some confusion because the British used "Oriental" for Middle Easterners: e.g., Edward Said's "Orientalism" is not at all interested in what the British call the "Far East."

    The real confusion came around 1982 when the feds transferred South Asians from Caucasian to Asian to qualify South Asian businessmen for low interest SBA loans and minority privileges in government contracting.

    Why not make South Asians their own category?

    Asia is indeed a big place.
    May I suggest 3 or 4 sub categories viz:
    North East Asians
    South East Asians
    South Asians
    and
    Middle East and North African

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    ...South Asians
    and
    Middle East and North African
     
    The Iranians emigres in Southern California would be unhappy. The Persians don't like to be lumped in with Gulf and Peninsular Arabs, and the people from the Caucasus are another bunch. Maybe an Asian Caucasian/Persian grouping and an Arab grouping would help.

    There is no end to this.
    , @Q

    Middle East and North African
     
    North Africans are Berbers, an admixture of Arab and Sub Saharan African, I wouldn't count them as Asian in any way.

    Middle Eastern is problematic. Arabs, Turks, Israelis and Persians don't like to be mixed up. They've only spent the last 10,000 years trying to kill off one another.

    Also you forgot the Central Asians, Arab-Asian-Russian-Aryan admixtures from all those stan countries.

    , @Stan d Mute

    May I suggest 3 or 4 sub categories viz:
     
    I’m pretty sure we used to have such things, but they were deemed “racist.” Can’t you see that Arabs are exactly the same as Orientals? Or that wogs are exactly the same as russkies?
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Sure, base it purely on cardinal directions, but IT IS SO BLAND. That terminology sounds exactly the way the USSR Politburo, Red China's Chairman Mao, and 1984 would have it. I see that our ctrl-left is heading in the same direction, or at least forcing all the more melodious and evocative terms out.

    I don't like freaking Myanmar. Burma is fine.
    Kampuchea sucked ass - they got wise and changed it back to Cambodia (still sounds not very romantic).
    Bombay is what I'm calling that city in India, not Mum-freakin-Bai. Listen, if you're gonna live in a shithole, at least live in a nicely-named shithole.

    It turns out that all the British names were the best. Ceylon, not Sri Lanka, Cathay for China, Canton for Guangzhou. I don't know - maybe it's me, but the British names seem much more romantic.

    From Every Picture Tells a Story, Don't It?, I wrote:

    For example, would you rather date a girl if she were billed as “a beautiful Oriental lass from Canton, in Cathay in the Far East” or if she were “a good worker loyal party-following comrade from Guangzhou's Tein-hou district of the People’s Republic”?
     
  29. Chinese cinema in the US seemed to peak with Jet Li’s “Hero”. It’s not-so-subtle pro-Chinese Authoritarianism message might have been a little too much for Westerners to stomach.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Hero" of about 2003 pushed a lot of things to the limit: Chinese supremacism and budget. The movie looked like 120 Christmas perfume ads back to back. The Chinese claimed it only cost $31 million, but that just showed the yuan was undervalued.

    But it was an amazing movie. But it was also the peak of Chinese movie-making to impress Americans.

    , @Anon
    I kind of liked those two (non-political} "Detective Dee" movies from 2010 and 2013 directed by Tsui Hark. They made Judge Dee a freelance detective to allow them to cast a younger actor, I think. The special effects were really cool, and probably a lot less expensive than an American movie.

    The Mael brothers of Pacific Palisades wrote an ultra minimalist song about Tsui Hark in 1994:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi8C51cJVhQ

    , @Anon
    Chinese cinema in the US seemed to peak with Jet Li’s “Hero”. It’s not-so-subtle pro-Chinese Authoritarianism message might have been a little too much for Westerners to stomach.

    No, that wasn't it. It was boring as hell.

    Westerners love any message as long as it's made 'cool'. Take 300, a huge hit. That was pop-fascist war porn. But it was done in a fun way. HERO was deadly. It took all the stuff that make Hong Kong movies fun and silly and did them straight. It's like trying to make imperial cuisine with fast food ingredients. I love movies like SWORDSMAN III(aka EAST IS RED) because they are so over-the-top ludicrous.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q8Q5tl6qec

    But then, Wong Kar-Wai did an arty take on HK wire-fu with ASHES OF TIME that has a great opening but gets boring as hell. At least, ASHES was small enough to be a personal movie.
    The big-budged HERO was like watching the Olympic Ceremony.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOmBkF6nKvc

    I wouldn't mind watching an epic about Chinese Imperial History. That's a big subject worthy of serious treatment, like RAN by Kurosawa and THE LEOPARD by Visconti. NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA by Schaffner is pretty good too.

    But recently, China has been making hybrid epics that tackle big historical themes but in populist wire-fu style. The result is utterly ludicrous, like Michael Bay's PEARL HARBOR that treats a national tragedy like an amusement park ride. It's one thing for one guy who kick 100 butts in a kung fu movie, but not in a movie that is supposed to be about real history.

    Just like Indian directors feel obligated to add musical numbers even in movies that don't call for such silliness, Chinese directors feel obligated to add wire-fu silliness to movies with serious themes and subjects.

    PS. I'm not sure HERO works as nationalist propaganda. When 1000s of Chinese soldiers are defeated by a Chinese woman doing a shampoo commercial, what does it say about Chinese prowess and pride?

  30. right wing utopias

    Is there any other kind?

    Either way, CRA sucks. Asia has enough materialism without further glorification.

  31. @Hapalong Cassidy
    Chinese cinema in the US seemed to peak with Jet Li’s “Hero”. It’s not-so-subtle pro-Chinese Authoritarianism message might have been a little too much for Westerners to stomach.

    “Hero” of about 2003 pushed a lot of things to the limit: Chinese supremacism and budget. The movie looked like 120 Christmas perfume ads back to back. The Chinese claimed it only cost $31 million, but that just showed the yuan was undervalued.

    But it was an amazing movie. But it was also the peak of Chinese movie-making to impress Americans.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Steve, I think Crazy Rich Asians is Western propaganda aimed at the East Asian community, both in America and in Asia.

    The most striking thing about the movie for me was the prominence of Christianity. The Youngs are reading Bibles in English. The marriage is in a European-style cathedral. Where were the Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism? Didn't people get married in Asia before Euro Christians showed up? Singapore itself only has a minority of Christians.

    The aspirational youth of Asia will see these people buying European luxury products like Armani, Dolce and Gabbana and what not. Where are the goods produced by 5000 years of Chinese culture? It's not like they're incapable of producing it, it isn't that hard to make a handbag or dress. It's just the "cool" factor. And coolness is created by movies, books and television.

    English-speaking, Yellow on the outside White on the inside Asians were the only strong characters in the movie. And the characters had names that one associates with old money English aristocrats - Eleanor, Astrid, Alistair, Felicity, Araminta, The natives were basically portrayed as rustic bumpkins (perhaps accurately).

    Even at the deeper, philosophical level - the Chinese-minded Eleanor Young is forced to accept the Americanized Rachel as the right match for her son. Heck, her son was pretty much ready to ditch his mother, his home culture and his inheritance to live it up with CareerGrrl in NYC. It's a subtle put down of anything that opposes the standard liberal American mindset.

    I think Black Panther (which I didn't have the stomach to watch) was possibly more accepting of the native culture. Crazy Rich Asians is just a movie that tells Asians that White is Right.
    , @Seth Largo
    Are directors like Zhang Yimou and Chen Kaige (not to mention their late cousin across the sea, Akira Kurosawa) consciously making movies for Westerners?

    Insofar as early filmmakers like Kurosawa were, by necessity, influenced by Western filmmaking, I suppose all subsequent East Asian directors are, too. But the sumptuous cinematography and larger-than-life narratives popularized in the 2000s defined most Chinese and Japanese film styles well before that odd period of popularization. Raise the Red Lantern and Farewell my Concubine are two good examples from the early 90s.

  32. @CAL2
    My theory on the decline of interest in Chinese movies is that Hollywood has spent the last 10-15 years catering to the Chinese market. Let's face it, the result of that has been a serious dumbing down of movies. Hollywood keeps churning out movies like Transformers because they play well in China. Everyone knows it and the effect is to make people associate China with lousy movie choices. The thinking goes, if China likes those movies, how bad are the movies they make?

    Or we can say the lack of diversity in Chinese films is problematic.

    It would be cool if imdb broke out ratings by race, and you could search the top 250 lists. The Fast and The Furious probably gets an 8.7 in Hispanic imdb, it’s like their version of The Godfather.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Justin Lin, an Asian-American director, revived Fast and Furious in the middle of its run.
  33. Anonymous[266] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Americans used to have a term called "Oriental" for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.

    This caused some confusion because the British used "Oriental" for Middle Easterners: e.g., Edward Said's "Orientalism" is not at all interested in what the British call the "Far East."

    The real confusion came around 1982 when the feds transferred South Asians from Caucasian to Asian to qualify South Asian businessmen for low interest SBA loans and minority privileges in government contracting.

    Why not make South Asians their own category?

    When I hear “Asian” I think oriental. I never think of East Indian or Sri Lankan. As a kid I recall using the term Chinese as a generic term for anyone with East Asian features. When I encountered an East Asian person (whether Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese), I’d refer to them as Chinese or oriental. “That Chinese woman…” The area I grew up in also used the term “Coke” as a generic term for soda.

    I grew up in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s in a lily-white area. There were no East Asians at my elementary or middle school. East Asians were exotic and in far off lands. I’d only see them in magazines with Pan Am ads about travel to “the Orient”. An East Asian kid at my elementary school would’ve been an object of fascination as much as a blue-eyed, towheaded kid in a rural Chinese village.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I like your comment, rebel. Yeah, only in the South do people call every soft drink a Coke.
  34. @Anon
    "One obvious problem with the film’s gimmick of an all-Asian cast is that East Asians, at least those who aren’t mixed race, tend to look alike."

    One doesn't have this problem watching Japanese films like SEVEN SAMURAI. Everyone is distinct.
    I can't imagine mistaking Mifune or Shimura for anyone else. Also, each is developed as a character.

    But in Hollywood movies, Asians are presented as a type, and so audience is more likely to see types than individuals, so they just merge together as 'Asians'.

    Ironically, Asians may today look more alike because so many get plastic surgery to look 'western'.

    I recently watched Red Cliff, the Chinese war epic.

    With the exception of a few characters with distinctive features, I had one hell of a time telling them apart.

    But I strongly suspect this is not because “they all look alike,” it’s because we’re not used to picking up on the subtle differences in Asian faces that we easily pick out in types we’re more familiar with. I’ve seen studied demonstrating that to East Asians, us white types all look pretty much alike too.

    It’s simply a case of what we’re used to.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Jew
    From what I've read, Asians think all Whites look the same. IIRC there's some research on it out there, somewhere, that supports the idea that our ability to discern individuals of a particular race develops at a certain time ( in childhood?). So to a White person raised in East Asia by Asians all Whites would look the same and visa versa. I knew a Korean adopted by Whites and raised in an all-White town but I never asked her.
    , @Random Smartaleck

    But I strongly suspect this is not because “they all look alike,” it’s because we’re not used to picking up on the subtle differences in Asian faces that we easily pick out in types we’re more familiar with.
     
    I don't doubt that's true, but the uniformity of hair color/type and eye color among East Asians certainly does complicate easily distinguishing them in groups.
  35. The ingenue, Rachel Chu, is an inexplicably unworldly NYU economics professor who has no clue that her handsome, devoted boyfriend is the most eligible bachelor in Asia as the scion of Singapore’s oldest real estate development empire.

    She’s supposed to be an economics professor who studies game theory, and demonstrates it to her class by playing poker.

    But she has never bothered to google the name of her boyfriend.

  36. @Steve Sailer
    Americans used to have a term called "Oriental" for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.

    This caused some confusion because the British used "Oriental" for Middle Easterners: e.g., Edward Said's "Orientalism" is not at all interested in what the British call the "Far East."

    The real confusion came around 1982 when the feds transferred South Asians from Caucasian to Asian to qualify South Asian businessmen for low interest SBA loans and minority privileges in government contracting.

    Why not make South Asians their own category?

    Wouldn’t that make South Asians stand out as a very high achieving group, not unlike jews, arousing resentment & envy? Why would South Asians want the spotlight on them?

    A good South Asian instead would want to ensure that the Eye of Sauron remains on the Straight White Man and Becky.

  37. I saw the movie, as my wife had read the novel and wanted to see it. I seem to recall her laughing out loud at the novel, but the movie had, at most a couple of mildly amusing scenes, mostly due to Ken Jeong. It struck me as a very formulaic chick flick in the Cinderella vein.

    Usually, in white incarnations of this cliche, the stick-up-the-rear rich white WASPS (and they are always are WASPS) are invariably shown as being callous, insufferable pricks. Here, being POCs engaged in flagrant acts of conspicious consumption, they are portrayed as having (ultimately) noble and complicated motivations.

    • Replies: @Forbes

    engaged in flagrant acts of conspicious consumption, they are portrayed as having (ultimately) noble and complicated motivations.
     
    Of course. So long as it's not whitey, it's noble. The Current Year.
  38. @Steve Sailer
    Americans used to have a term called "Oriental" for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.

    This caused some confusion because the British used "Oriental" for Middle Easterners: e.g., Edward Said's "Orientalism" is not at all interested in what the British call the "Far East."

    The real confusion came around 1982 when the feds transferred South Asians from Caucasian to Asian to qualify South Asian businessmen for low interest SBA loans and minority privileges in government contracting.

    Why not make South Asians their own category?

    For some reason “asians” came to be, or at least act, greatly offended by the term “oriental”, although it is an entirely neutral term and a much more specific one then the overly broad “asians”. It all happened around the time that a lot of people started making a living by being offended.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    For some reason “asians” came to be, or at least act, greatly offended by the term “oriental”,
     
    Same thing happened with "Negro" and is currently underway with "Gypsy." People just decide to start getting offended.....
    , @Anon
    Edward Said wrote a book called ORIENTALISM.
  39. So this film is basically, “Cinderella in Singapore?”

    Does not get more trite and derivative than that.

  40. Asians appropriating 18 different subcultures:

    • Replies: @Charles_Atlanta
    It was amusing for a second. Then it got old but I kept watching because Porter Lynn looked amazing as every type of Asian girl because Porter Lynn looks amazing.
  41. The Fung bros got it on lockdown as usual

  42. Anon[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    Chinese cinema in the US seemed to peak with Jet Li’s “Hero”. It’s not-so-subtle pro-Chinese Authoritarianism message might have been a little too much for Westerners to stomach.

    I kind of liked those two (non-political} “Detective Dee” movies from 2010 and 2013 directed by Tsui Hark. They made Judge Dee a freelance detective to allow them to cast a younger actor, I think. The special effects were really cool, and probably a lot less expensive than an American movie.

    The Mael brothers of Pacific Palisades wrote an ultra minimalist song about Tsui Hark in 1994:

  43. Anonymous[157] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    "Hero" of about 2003 pushed a lot of things to the limit: Chinese supremacism and budget. The movie looked like 120 Christmas perfume ads back to back. The Chinese claimed it only cost $31 million, but that just showed the yuan was undervalued.

    But it was an amazing movie. But it was also the peak of Chinese movie-making to impress Americans.

    Steve, I think Crazy Rich Asians is Western propaganda aimed at the East Asian community, both in America and in Asia.

    The most striking thing about the movie for me was the prominence of Christianity. The Youngs are reading Bibles in English. The marriage is in a European-style cathedral. Where were the Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism? Didn’t people get married in Asia before Euro Christians showed up? Singapore itself only has a minority of Christians.

    The aspirational youth of Asia will see these people buying European luxury products like Armani, Dolce and Gabbana and what not. Where are the goods produced by 5000 years of Chinese culture? It’s not like they’re incapable of producing it, it isn’t that hard to make a handbag or dress. It’s just the “cool” factor. And coolness is created by movies, books and television.

    English-speaking, Yellow on the outside White on the inside Asians were the only strong characters in the movie. And the characters had names that one associates with old money English aristocrats – Eleanor, Astrid, Alistair, Felicity, Araminta, The natives were basically portrayed as rustic bumpkins (perhaps accurately).

    Even at the deeper, philosophical level – the Chinese-minded Eleanor Young is forced to accept the Americanized Rachel as the right match for her son. Heck, her son was pretty much ready to ditch his mother, his home culture and his inheritance to live it up with CareerGrrl in NYC. It’s a subtle put down of anything that opposes the standard liberal American mindset.

    I think Black Panther (which I didn’t have the stomach to watch) was possibly more accepting of the native culture. Crazy Rich Asians is just a movie that tells Asians that White is Right.

    • Replies: @DFH
    Singapore is about 20% Christian (probably more among Chinese)
    , @Amasius

    The most striking thing about the movie for me was the prominence of Christianity. The Youngs are reading Bibles in English. The marriage is in a European-style cathedral. Where were the Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism? Didn’t people get married in Asia before Euro Christians showed up? Singapore itself only has a minority of Christians.
     
    Religions have a tendency to travel as part of cultural packages. Christianity came with the "civilizing" process to the ancient Germans and Slavs from Rome and Byzantium, and Buddhism and Chinese writing/culture came together to Japan to help their civilization take off. Also compare the syncretism of the Macedonian Empire(s), e.g. Bactria, and the Roman Empire.

    So with Americanization goes Christianization. I think prestige has a lot to do with it, but it's also worth considering if the Christian ethos is just intrinsically bougie. The first significant Christian communities were mostly middle class jews in Asia Minor and the Levant (the swarming mob phase came after Constantine); blessed are the meek, turn the other cheek, it's good to be a sheep, the Protestant Work Ethic and all the rest. So if you inhale McWorld globalism, American right-wing or quasi-right-wing evangelical Christianity is part of the deal-- it's just right.

    But sometimes a reaction happens, like the Tokugawa shogunate. I think it probable we'll see a major religious conflict in China if Christianity keeps making inroads.

    , @Anon
    I think Crazy Rich Asians is Western propaganda aimed at the East Asian community, both in America and in Asia.
    The most striking thing about the movie for me was the prominence of Christianity.


    But the new religion of the West is Queertianity.
  44. I agree. Many ethnic Chinese were treated atrociously in the occupation, so were the most anti- group. However, I am not so sure about the very wealthy.

    It seems to have been less so for ethnic Malays, presumably because of their having less for the Imperial Army to exploit, and because of the lack of an ethnic connection to China (where, of course, the Imperial Army was on a rampage).

    The most eager collaborators were ethnic Indians, I suppose because of the one of the two famous Indian nationalists named Bose who was connected with Japan (the other was connected with Germany).

    For you and Steve, I had five years of my upbringing there, last three of primary school, first two of secondary, all but the first two terms within the state curriculum. Great education system, and of course, educational in general. For example, the above comments reflect stories that I heard from my school friends, and their parents and grandparents.

    Agree with Steve now having no desire to visit the place and his reasons, few of the places that I liked as a child still exist (the Botanical Gardens are, I would assume, an exception). As a precocious child, I was able to see that I did not much like the political system, although I saw a few fascist-style events with my parents, including a speech by Lee Kuan Yew to a full sports stadium.

    However, I am sure that the food is still great and varied, Malay style, Singaporean Chinese style, Chinese Chinese styles, Indian, etc., and the chance of food poisoning (never happened to me) or exotic diseases from food (as in India), very low.

    So if changing flights there, and having time (say, three days to a week), I would still recommend seeing a little of the place of now and enjoying the representative dishes.

    In any case, thanks for the review Steve, definitely one to avoid (if it even gets a Japan release).

  45. @Anon
    "One obvious problem with the film’s gimmick of an all-Asian cast is that East Asians, at least those who aren’t mixed race, tend to look alike."

    One doesn't have this problem watching Japanese films like SEVEN SAMURAI. Everyone is distinct.
    I can't imagine mistaking Mifune or Shimura for anyone else. Also, each is developed as a character.

    But in Hollywood movies, Asians are presented as a type, and so audience is more likely to see types than individuals, so they just merge together as 'Asians'.

    Ironically, Asians may today look more alike because so many get plastic surgery to look 'western'.

    Also in Ozu films characters have very different faces and it is easy to distinguish them (even though he uses the same actors over and over again). But in Chinese and Chinese-American films I have more difficulty. Could be that the Japanese have more facial diversity than Chinese or Koreans? Or could be that your explanation is right. Now many Hollywood action movies have some dumb Chinese sub-plot, I suppose to sell it better in China, but the characters are all very generic.

  46. @Steve Sailer
    A lot of people aspire to a career in being paid to go away.

    The second oldest profession.

  47. @a-non
    The guardian had a beautiful review of this yesterday, truly beyond parody:

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/21/where-are-the-brown-people-crazy-rich-asians-draws-tepid-response-in-singapore


    In a two-part takedown of the film, Sangeetha Thanapal, an activist and writer of Singapore-Indian origin whose work explores Chinese privilege, said the film “simply is not the ‘Great Asian Hope’ that it is being portrayed as”.

    “While it is being billed as an Asian movie, it is made up almost entirely of east Asians,” said Thanapal. “The few brown people featured in it are seen in service positions to the glamorous and wealthy Chinese characters. The dominance of east Asia in the worldwide imagination of who constitutes the idea of Asia is troubling, especially since brown Asians make up a sizable portion of the continent.”

     

    The thing is that in Britain, where the Guardian article was published, ‘Asian’ means a person whose ethnic origins are in the Indian sub-continent, as it was once known. (Even there it includes a wide range of complexions, eye colours, and facial features.) So the problem here is with English vs American usage of the term Asian. Sangeetha Thanapal is feeling left out.

    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    It's obvious if you think about it historically, since Britain didn't have Chinese laborers building their railroads. Their first significant society-wide experiences with cultural interaction and migration involving that continent were with Indians. Which means they need another word to disambiguate when they're actually talking about East Asians specifically -- "Oriental" never really acquired a problematic un-PC taint over there because it's the only one-word term that carries that information content without over-specifying a particular country of origin. The next most informative alternative would be "Mongoloid", but that word is tinged with *scientific* racism so it was broadly eradicated across most Western countries by goodthinking professionals.

    This doesn't stop Chinese-Americans who visit England from coming back and complaining, "They're so racist! They called me 'Oriental'!"
  48. @Steve Sailer
    Americans used to have a term called "Oriental" for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.

    This caused some confusion because the British used "Oriental" for Middle Easterners: e.g., Edward Said's "Orientalism" is not at all interested in what the British call the "Far East."

    The real confusion came around 1982 when the feds transferred South Asians from Caucasian to Asian to qualify South Asian businessmen for low interest SBA loans and minority privileges in government contracting.

    Why not make South Asians their own category?

    How about Dark Aryans?

    Give them a little edge.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    I would prefer "H1B Elves" myself.
    , @anon
    In his book Who We Are and How We Got Here, Harvard geneticist David Reich said that all Indians today are an admixture of Iranian, Aryan and Dravidian. The Aryan genes are the highest among Brahmins in the North but still no more than a small(<10) percentage. So Dark Aryan is an overstatement.
  49. Whenever Rachel mentions she grew up as a child to a single mother (she does that at least twice in the movie)- I am reminded of your old article

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/my-new-vdarecom-column-on-asian-voters/

    I’m reminded of something that surprised me in the late 1990s. My wife worked with a Korean immigrant lady named (unsurprisingly) Ms. Kim. The poor woman’s husband had died in a car crash a few years before, leaving her with two small children to raise.

    I was startled to learn that Ms. Kim referred to herself as a “single mother” rather than as a “widow,” which seemed to me to be the more accurate and more respectable term.

  50. Upon independence in 1965, Singapore was unstable, poor, and 40% illiterate.

    Today, Singapore is vastly improved:

    * High incomes.
    * Low taxes – $10,500 income tax on $120,000 income.
    * Acceptable cost of housing for citizens – $215,000 for 700 square-foot apartment in government-subsidized housing. 80% of citizens live in public housing.
    * No crime.
    * Quality health care for everyone.
    * 11 universities, 2 internationally-ranked.
    * Powerful military, no wars.
    * Many immigrants are wealthy or professional.
    * No corruption.
    * AAA credit rating.

    Singapore is a tiny nation of 278 square miles, with a hard-working, intelligent population of 5½ million people and a very effective government.

    • Replies: @Flip
    Can we hire them to run Chicago?
  51. @sb
    Asia is indeed a big place.
    May I suggest 3 or 4 sub categories viz:
    North East Asians
    South East Asians
    South Asians
    and
    Middle East and North African

    …South Asians
    and
    Middle East and North African

    The Iranians emigres in Southern California would be unhappy. The Persians don’t like to be lumped in with Gulf and Peninsular Arabs, and the people from the Caucasus are another bunch. Maybe an Asian Caucasian/Persian grouping and an Arab grouping would help.

    There is no end to this.

    • Agree: Escher
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    There is no end to this.
     
    That's why people are going to need to print out my handy card. Everything's going geographic* now:

    ************************************************************
    “Indian” is out – “Subcontinental” is in (like there aren’t lots of pieces of continents around, say the Yucatan and Iberian peninsulas).

    “Oriental” is out – “Northeastern Asian”, “Southeastern Asian”, “West-by-Northwestern” Asian, “38th Parallel Asian”, and “Arctic Circular Asian” are in.

    “Beaner”, “Greaser”, “Chicano” and “Latino” are out – “Mexican”, “Central American”, and “Yucatan Peninsularian” are in.

    “Negro” and variations thereof, along with “dude from some shithole” , are out – “[cardinal direction] African” is in.

    “Towel Head”, “Rag Head”, basically “[any type of woven fabric] – head” are out – “MENA”, MENAing Middle East North African, is in.

    “Big Samoan Fat Fuck” is out – “SPIFF”, meaning “Southwestern Pacific Island Fat Fuck” is in.
    ************************************************************
     
    * BTW, it'd be fine if the georgraphic terms could be based on rivers, forests, deserts and mountain ranges, etc. Mekong Delta people, Big Horners, Saharans, Amazonians (well, we got those), Caucasians (oh, yeah, we got those too), Upper Penobscotians, Orinocians, and so on. No, it's got to be plain old bland cardinal directions with modifiers now. BORING!
  52. @Steve Sailer
    Americans used to have a term called "Oriental" for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.

    This caused some confusion because the British used "Oriental" for Middle Easterners: e.g., Edward Said's "Orientalism" is not at all interested in what the British call the "Far East."

    The real confusion came around 1982 when the feds transferred South Asians from Caucasian to Asian to qualify South Asian businessmen for low interest SBA loans and minority privileges in government contracting.

    Why not make South Asians their own category?

    Why not make South Asians their own category?

    The most useful working term for them is “Desi”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desi . People should use it more often.

  53. @Dave Pinsen
    An interesting idea for a prequel would follow the development of the rich family into its wealth, starting in pre-war Singapore, then covering the Japanese invasion and occupation, independence, etc.

    Yeah, I don’t think you’re talking about the same business.

  54. @Steve Sailer
    Americans used to have a term called "Oriental" for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.

    This caused some confusion because the British used "Oriental" for Middle Easterners: e.g., Edward Said's "Orientalism" is not at all interested in what the British call the "Far East."

    The real confusion came around 1982 when the feds transferred South Asians from Caucasian to Asian to qualify South Asian businessmen for low interest SBA loans and minority privileges in government contracting.

    Why not make South Asians their own category?

    The British mean South Asian when they say “Asian.” Except for people in Rotherham and Rochdale. They are all British.

    Not that I’m insinuating anything. After all, Her Majesty’s government began to address the puzzling question of the ethnicity of grooming gangs only late last month.

    https://www.thenational.ae/world/europe/uk-orders-research-into-ethnicity-of-sex-grooming-gangs-1.754357

  55. Saw the preview and decided this movie is part of a narrative push to anoint East Asians as officially “brown.” (See Sarah Jeong.) Result: a quick, silent, and substantial boost in the the overall POC achievement level. Hey, who needs White People for anything anymore?

  56. @Anon
    "One obvious problem with the film’s gimmick of an all-Asian cast is that East Asians, at least those who aren’t mixed race, tend to look alike."

    One doesn't have this problem watching Japanese films like SEVEN SAMURAI. Everyone is distinct.
    I can't imagine mistaking Mifune or Shimura for anyone else. Also, each is developed as a character.

    But in Hollywood movies, Asians are presented as a type, and so audience is more likely to see types than individuals, so they just merge together as 'Asians'.

    Ironically, Asians may today look more alike because so many get plastic surgery to look 'western'.

    I wonder why Japanese movies seem to have gotten totally wrecked – I watched a few recent ones and its obvious that acting quality has plummeted. I think it has something to do with the lack of money going into movies now, etc. Still surprising.

  57. @Anon
    As does Hong Kong, Shanghai, and Beijing, etc etc.
    It’s almost as if some cultures have capabilities.


    Not for long. I would bet on Planet of the Apu as Indians still produce life. East Asians produce wealth but no life. They will be replaced. And as they're educated in the West, they are welcoming replacement as necessary and good.

    But maybe Singapore and HK can last longer because they can take in mainland Chinese.
    But Japan and SK? They will fade in half a century.

    also economic growth is not hard to achieve when you simply stop to reproduce as a nation. What makes life hard for adults is combining job and having children. Without children modern life and being successful is easy.

  58. @kihowi
    Broke Hollywood: Money isn't everything.

    Woke Hollywood: Ha-ha, you believed us the first time! Money is totally everything.

    Chinese movies are pretty good, especially the historical ones. Their action movies achieve a level of stupidity that leaves you with a "stupidity high" that lasts for days.

    I think the reason nobody seems to care about Chinese movies anymore is that the Chinese stopped feeling that they needed western approval, so they stopped catering to whitey's idea of "art" or " vibrating vibrancy" or whatever movie reviewing hacks want to see. They're making them for themselves now.

    I really liked Lost On Journey(人在囧途) myself from 2010. It wasn’t really marketed in the West, I think, but it was rather well done and pertinent on a number of things of China: poverty in the outlands, con-artists faking a living, mistress culture, and the entitled rich often failing to see issues in front of them.

  59. One obvious problem with the film’s gimmick of an all-Asian cast is that East Asians, at least those who aren’t mixed race, tend to look alike.

    Oh Steve, you made me laugh and spit-out my morning coffee.

    The interesting thing here is that after one has acclimated, Asians (even of one race) actually don’t all look alike. One begins to see the nuances. And I actually think the phenomenon goes both ways. After some time living in China, one of my Chinese students cautiously asked me, “MNL, can I ask you a personal question? Do all westerners look alike to you? Because they sure do to me.”

    Touche.

    But it’s true. Most American movie-goers aren’t acclimated and this will make it hard for many to follow the characters.

  60. I’m surprised you never commented on the Crazy Rich Asians posters being defaced in rapidly gentrifying Vancouver on account of the low-level race war taking place there between Asians and whites: https://www.straight.com/movies/1113276/racist-graffiti-found-crazy-rich-asians-movie-poster-vancouver

    Of course, we shouldn’t denounce the Asians too much in Canada right now as their votes are key to ensuring a Conservative majority government in 2019.

  61. I don’t think this movie captures crazy rich. I knew a guy who attended the marriage of Lakshmi Mittal’s daughter in Paris, which included events at Tuilleries Garden at the Louvre and at Versailles. He said it was outrageously extravagant. His airfare and hotel from the US was covered by the family as well. That is a crazy rich Asian/Indian.

  62. @Steve Sailer
    A lot of people these days feel, deep down, that they deserve to get an intellectual property royalty check in the mail every month for the various contributions of their race, such as inventing jerk chicken, the way that F. Scott Fitzgerald's granddaughter got a "Great Gatsby" royalty check until very recently.

    That sounds great to me. They can keep the jerk chicken royalties. Tesla was from my family’s hometown. If I get a cut of the royalties for AC generation, transmission and AC motors, I think I can live on that. Add that to the inventions of my scots, German and English ancestors and I think I am in the money. Oh wait, maybe that is exactly what happened.

  63. @a-non
    The guardian had a beautiful review of this yesterday, truly beyond parody:

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/21/where-are-the-brown-people-crazy-rich-asians-draws-tepid-response-in-singapore


    In a two-part takedown of the film, Sangeetha Thanapal, an activist and writer of Singapore-Indian origin whose work explores Chinese privilege, said the film “simply is not the ‘Great Asian Hope’ that it is being portrayed as”.

    “While it is being billed as an Asian movie, it is made up almost entirely of east Asians,” said Thanapal. “The few brown people featured in it are seen in service positions to the glamorous and wealthy Chinese characters. The dominance of east Asia in the worldwide imagination of who constitutes the idea of Asia is troubling, especially since brown Asians make up a sizable portion of the continent.”

     

    Nobody’s stopping the Indians from making their own version: Crazy Poor Indians.

    • Replies: @anon

    Crazy Poor Indians.
     
    They've already made such a movie. It's called Slumdog Millionaire.
    , @stillCARealist
    I thought that was the entire ouvre of Bollywood. well, the crazy part anyway.
    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    You’re not likely to see “Crazy Poor Blacks” any time soon either. Case in point:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiewire.com/2015/06/jimmie-walker-youll-never-see-a-poor-black-family-on-tv-again-153788/amp/

    He’s got a point. All of the “black” shows I see commercials for are about some black family that owns a fashion empire or a rap music empire or something like that. The Huxtables seem quaint by comparison.
    , @Edward
    To be fair to the writer of that Guardian article, in the context of Singapore the title Crazy Rich Indians would in fact be more apt: Singaporean Indians have higher average and median household incomes than the Singaporean Chinese, with the Malay community being the poorest. Educationally, the Chinese do best, followed by the Indians, with the Malays lagging behind quite significantly. See the following link and its official government sources:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#Average_household_monthly_income
  64. @Anon
    OT

    There's a hilarious dust-up in the U.K. right now over television chef Jamie Oliver's cultural appropriation of Jamaica in the form of a microwavable "jerk rice" product.

    A member of pariliament has jumped into the fray. A Jamaican chef-entrepreneur is hoping that Jamie had nothing to do with this atrocity and that it was a cock-up by his staff.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-45246009

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/20/jamie-olivers-jerk-rice-dish-a-mistake-says-jamaica-born-chef

    Jamie has issued a statement:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/jamie-oliver-jerk-rice-row-chef-responds-to-accusations-of-cultural-appropriation-a3916311.html

    In the course of watching news shows about this I saw a white male newsreader read the Wikipedia definition of "cultural appropriation," and I may have detected a slight note of sarcasm in his voice. In any event, the definition threw me, becasue it's been racismized: defined in such a way that only white people can culturally appropriate, while the Great Underrepresented can rip off stuff to their heart's content. I think that this also explains why a second generation Korean American can accuse a white American of cultural appropriation for making a Korean dish, even though the white may have lived in Korea and worked at a Korean restaurant for years and the Korean American grew up eating macaroni and cheese.


    Wikipedia: Cultural appropriation is the adoption of elements of a minority culture by members of the dominant culture. It is distinguished from an equal cultural exchange due to an imbalance of power, often as a byproduct of colonialism and oppression.
     

    How exactly do they define “minority” and “dominant”? Do these terms change meaning depending on the country in question? (hint, if this is not just a load of who,whom BS–which I think it is–then the terms should change meaning in different countries)

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    No, it’s a backdoor way of normalizing empire. It’s hard to challenge premises with someone who is ostensibly on your side against the oppressors.
  65. I think this movie demonstrate my long time assertion that Americanized Asian-American women are generally consider undesirable by Asian-American men and their families. As Nick Young’s family kept informing him that he could do MUCH better than Rachel if he picks a mate “back home.” The novel’s original popularity was mostly among Asian-American women who hate such behavior and embraced the novel to make Rachel the exception that prove the rules. It’s interesting that they cast most of the younger women from around the world, while stay within the region for its younger male characters.

    Another movie treatment on such situation is “Bride and Prejudice” directed by a UK-based NRI female director.

    That movie treat the Indian-American version of cousin Collins as a loser for not getting Ashiwaryra Rai, but “ONLY” end up with Sonali Kulkarni. But for the character himself and most other men, he was a winner.

  66. Is this movie about Asians who are crazy rich, or rich Asians who are crazy?

  67. @a-non
    The guardian had a beautiful review of this yesterday, truly beyond parody:

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/21/where-are-the-brown-people-crazy-rich-asians-draws-tepid-response-in-singapore


    In a two-part takedown of the film, Sangeetha Thanapal, an activist and writer of Singapore-Indian origin whose work explores Chinese privilege, said the film “simply is not the ‘Great Asian Hope’ that it is being portrayed as”.

    “While it is being billed as an Asian movie, it is made up almost entirely of east Asians,” said Thanapal. “The few brown people featured in it are seen in service positions to the glamorous and wealthy Chinese characters. The dominance of east Asia in the worldwide imagination of who constitutes the idea of Asia is troubling, especially since brown Asians make up a sizable portion of the continent.”

     

    It’s almost as if in reality YT is not the only racist. Who would have thunk it…

  68. Kudos for the shout out to my homie Dr. Ken. But I suspect it was only because he appeared in All About Steve..

  69. Q says:

    The people who made the movie aren’t dumb, so they might be thinking about bringing in Keanu Reeves or Dean Cain or another handsome Eurasian star in the sequel to play the boyfriend’s father, and claim that is okay under their (broadly defined) All-Asian Cast rule.

    Or Russell Wong.

    I’m not sure why Steve has such a problem with part whites playing Asian roles. If only pure bred blacks are allowed to play black roles, there’d be no black actors in Hollywood since most blacks in the US have at least 1/4 admixture of white, including most of the black actors in Black Panther.

  70. Why do Chinese movies and Japanese movies suck?

    Because they don’t have any Jews.

    If Jews had been in China, China would rule the world.

    • Replies: @Bernie
    And China would have open immigration and millions of whites (and other races) living there and complaining that there are too many privileged Chinese in China.
    , @1661er
    edit: duplicated. Delete.
    , @1661er

    If Jews had been in China, China would rule the world.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaifeng_Jews

    Also
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_settlement_in_the_Japanese_Empire

    During 1920s/1930s, Japan had a plan to recruit Jews to Manchuria and Japanese lease territory in Shanghai. Phoebe (Katz) Cates's mother was born in Shanghai in those years, and she was one of the more famous quarter Asian-American actress in Hollywood.
    , @Dumbo
    Oy vey, another Jewish supremacist?

    I am not so much into Asian cinema, and I know very little about Chinese cinema, but the Japanese have made great films (not to mention animation), and still do occasionally (see the latest winner at Cannes). Koreans also have been making some good films.

    Hollywood movies are popular but many are as trashy as in any other place, only trash made with a lot of money. Of course, they produce much more quantity, and they have great technicians, so their trash is better than in other parts.

    Jewish domination of media is a fact, and I won't go into the reasons for that, but there are Jews in Latin America and many are into film, but they don't seem to be making many good or popular movies. Why? There is less money, and less talent. Hollywood has an almost worldwide monopoly on film production nowadays, which is a shame.

    In any case, the Jews are planning to move to China soon, why do you think so many Jews such as Zuckerberg are marrying Chinese?
    , @Mr. Anon

    Why do Chinese movies and Japanese movies suck?

    Because they don’t have any Jews.
     
    So why do american movies suck?
  71. Q says:
    @sb
    Asia is indeed a big place.
    May I suggest 3 or 4 sub categories viz:
    North East Asians
    South East Asians
    South Asians
    and
    Middle East and North African

    Middle East and North African

    North Africans are Berbers, an admixture of Arab and Sub Saharan African, I wouldn’t count them as Asian in any way.

    Middle Eastern is problematic. Arabs, Turks, Israelis and Persians don’t like to be mixed up. They’ve only spent the last 10,000 years trying to kill off one another.

    Also you forgot the Central Asians, Arab-Asian-Russian-Aryan admixtures from all those stan countries.

  72. @Steve Sailer
    A lot of people these days feel, deep down, that they deserve to get an intellectual property royalty check in the mail every month for the various contributions of their race, such as inventing jerk chicken, the way that F. Scott Fitzgerald's granddaughter got a "Great Gatsby" royalty check until very recently.

    A lot of people these days feel, deep down, that they deserve to get an intellectual property royalty check in the mail every month for the various contributions of their race

    And by some crazy cosmic inexplicable process, almost like quantum entanglement, these are invariably the exact same people without an intellect unworthy of capitalization. Ah, the mysteries of our Universe.

    Is there another Sailer’s Law lurking here somewhere?

  73. “But Crazy Rich Asians is less of a lampoon and more of a big gay racial pride parade extolling just how much money Singaporeans have to blow on impressing each other.”

    Wait, Singaporeans blow each other? Or they impress each other with tons of blow? There probably have been Asian-themed movies of this sort made before, but just further down from Hollywood (e.g. San Fernando Valley).

    Seriously, the film sounds a bit like a high end version of My Big Fat Greek Wedding, where love triumphs over all, all done with tons of conspicuous consumption (and blow). But with Rachel Chu and Constance Wu (and hottie Gemma Chan) providing the eye candy, it definitely sounds like a total winning project.

    So an early preview of the 2018 Oscar nominees for Best Picture:

    1. BlackKkKlansman

    2. Black Panther

    3. Crazy Rich Asians

    Maybe split the difference, and have Spike Lee win for Best Director, with Black Panther and Crazy Rich Asians both win for Best Picture to keep everyone happy.

  74. @The Last Real Calvinist

    They’re making them for themselves now.

     

    Maybe.

    The Hong Kong film industry was a Big Thing back in the 1990s when I moved here. Now, eh, there are still locally-made movies coming out regularly, but there seems to be much less excitement/anticipation.

    I wonder if the ubiquity of pirating in this region has taken the wind out of the local film industry's sails.

    The Chinese may have to develop a bit of respect for intellectual property.

    • Replies: @Alden
    Ha, dream on.

    Here’s something I heard about that first Star Wars sequel Phantom Menace that came out in 1999 ? I worked at UCLA at the time in south campus engineering and science mostly Chinese and not Americans Chinese nationals and very recent immigrants.

    There was a first ever showing midnight premier in a theater 2 blocks from campus. Some Chinese brought in tiny concealed cameras & audio and recorded the movie.

    As soon as the movie ended they ran out to the street and gave the cameras to Chinese waiting in cars.

    Then off to the nearby airport on the nearby freeway.

    Couriers waited in front of the international terminal. The cameras were handed off and went on the 5 am flight to China. The videos were on sale less than a day after the cameras arrived in China.

    That was the gossip among those Chinese national tech students and assistant professors.

    I don’t sympathize with the loss of revenue from movies.
    , @tr

    The Chinese may have to develop a bit of respect for intellectual property.
     
    That would be cultural appropriation!
  75. @a-non
    The guardian had a beautiful review of this yesterday, truly beyond parody:

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/21/where-are-the-brown-people-crazy-rich-asians-draws-tepid-response-in-singapore


    In a two-part takedown of the film, Sangeetha Thanapal, an activist and writer of Singapore-Indian origin whose work explores Chinese privilege, said the film “simply is not the ‘Great Asian Hope’ that it is being portrayed as”.

    “While it is being billed as an Asian movie, it is made up almost entirely of east Asians,” said Thanapal. “The few brown people featured in it are seen in service positions to the glamorous and wealthy Chinese characters. The dominance of east Asia in the worldwide imagination of who constitutes the idea of Asia is troubling, especially since brown Asians make up a sizable portion of the continent.”

     

    brown Asians make up a sizable portion of the continent.”

    And nearly 100% of the brown piles of fecal matter found on the continent’s streets and stoops.

  76. @Steve Sailer
    A lot of people these days feel, deep down, that they deserve to get an intellectual property royalty check in the mail every month for the various contributions of their race, such as inventing jerk chicken, the way that F. Scott Fitzgerald's granddaughter got a "Great Gatsby" royalty check until very recently.

    Of course, such royalties for white men would outstrip the ability of the planet’s taxbase to pay many times over.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    Indeed.
  77. @Anon
    So, what is the message of this movie? Asian male market value is so low that he needs a billion dollars to get a girl?

    I read the book. It’s more or less derived from the Shopaholic books. Shopaholic books are set in Britain

    I doubt any unz readers would enjoy the movie. The book was just a chick shopping book with multi billionaire Chinese instead of Americans and Europeans.

  78. “On the other hand, contemporary conspicuous consumption leaves me wary and dismissive. ”

    Truly does make one appreciate how Donald Trump has managed to pull it off during his life. I mean, who in America over the last forty years has been better at contemporary conspicuous consumption than Trump? He could probably watch the film and go “Yeah, I did all that back in the day.” As for Trump, its usually all about him, and in the case of having a Doctorate in contemporary conspicuous consumption, he’d be right.

  79. @Steve Sailer
    As I said in my review, "Why the movie isn't entitled 'Crazy Rich Chinese' is never explained."

    And tan Asians make up another large part of Asia. Assad, for example, isn't very brown.

    Asia is really big.

    Asia is really big.

    That reminds me, have you seen this?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2445615/True-size-Africa-continent-big-China-India-US-Europe-together.html

    So since Africa is bigger than China, India, USA, and EU combined, it can easily accommodate 4,000,000,000 people in opulent luxury especially given Wakandan sciencey stuff. So just shut up about African “overpopulation” and watch more Neil deGrasse Tyson videos you dumb crackers. Any minute now Tyson is gonna rediscover the secret Africans used to fly before you all stole it.

  80. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/crazy_rich_asians Crazy Rich Asians was the top movie last week. How did it get there? I suppose Chinese and other Asians are flocking to the movie theaters. We know black Americans are not interested. Can there be so many white Americans who find this to be “compelling” material for a movie? iow I don’t get how this movie shot to the top.
    Anyway, thanks Steve for the review. This cured me from being interested.

    • Replies: @anon

    41% of “Crazy Rich Asians” movie-goers were white, 38% were Asian, 11% were Hispanic, 6% were African American, and 4% were classified as “other."
     
    Asians normally make up only 6% of movie goers. Since it's one of the few rom-coms out this summer, this movie became the girls-night-out chick flick for the Sex and the City crowd. So much for whites being racist.
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/strong-asian-american-turnout-helped-propel-crazy-rich-asians-to-no-1-2018-08-20

    For Black Panther, blacks made up 38% of all audience on opening weekend, whites 35%.

    , @Alden
    I read the book. If you like rom coms with glorious settings and gorgeous women’s clothes and a lot of flash and dash you’ll like it. Most people like those kind of fun escapist entertainment movies.

    Unless you want to watch an Ibsen or Brecht adaption and wallow in misery and angst. Maybe Tennessee Williams or Faulkner movies? Picnic, Long Hot Summer? To Kill a Mockingbird?
  81. @sb
    Asia is indeed a big place.
    May I suggest 3 or 4 sub categories viz:
    North East Asians
    South East Asians
    South Asians
    and
    Middle East and North African

    May I suggest 3 or 4 sub categories viz:

    I’m pretty sure we used to have such things, but they were deemed “racist.” Can’t you see that Arabs are exactly the same as Orientals? Or that wogs are exactly the same as russkies?

  82. @Brutusale
    The Chinese may have to develop a bit of respect for intellectual property.

    Ha, dream on.

    Here’s something I heard about that first Star Wars sequel Phantom Menace that came out in 1999 ? I worked at UCLA at the time in south campus engineering and science mostly Chinese and not Americans Chinese nationals and very recent immigrants.

    There was a first ever showing midnight premier in a theater 2 blocks from campus. Some Chinese brought in tiny concealed cameras & audio and recorded the movie.

    As soon as the movie ended they ran out to the street and gave the cameras to Chinese waiting in cars.

    Then off to the nearby airport on the nearby freeway.

    Couriers waited in front of the international terminal. The cameras were handed off and went on the 5 am flight to China. The videos were on sale less than a day after the cameras arrived in China.

    That was the gossip among those Chinese national tech students and assistant professors.

    I don’t sympathize with the loss of revenue from movies.

    • Replies: @Altai
    I remember those early recordings. I was utterly shocked how fast they were out on the streets globally. I was watching a pretty decent CD (DVD players were still something most people hadn't even heard about yet. The resolution was pretty low but the picture quality for the resolution was perfect) of the film maybe a week after I saw the thing in theatres. A neighbour brought in a golden CD and wanted to see my reaction when I played it to find out what was on it.

    Edward Said was wrong about 'Orientalism' being without merit. From a European (Or at least North Western European) perspective there is a lot that non-Western Eurasians have in common societally and morally.
    , @anon
    Normally I'd say arrest them all. But since this is liberalism run wild Jew run Hollywood that's losing money, F 'em!
    , @stillCARealist
    There was a big Arnold film that came out mid-90's that was a huge blockbuster (I know, he had a lot). The same day it was released in the US my sister saw it for sale on the streets in Vietnam, where she was traveling. That was where she saw CA drivers licenses for sale too.
  83. “Your ethnicity designations are off.”

    I’m sure there’s a joke in there somewhere. Something about “all looking the same to me.” But that would be humor, and well, that’s not permitted anymore.

  84. @res
    How exactly do they define "minority" and "dominant"? Do these terms change meaning depending on the country in question? (hint, if this is not just a load of who,whom BS--which I think it is--then the terms should change meaning in different countries)

    No, it’s a backdoor way of normalizing empire. It’s hard to challenge premises with someone who is ostensibly on your side against the oppressors.

  85. Personally, I think your criticism of the movie is too harsh. I really didn’t see any social justice narrative except at the very beginning, when the evil white man got put in his place. I’m still not clear on how that relates to tue movie though.

    Other than that, it was quite enjoyable.

    The movie actually displays a pro-American bias. Not sure how you think it’s an SJW film. The ending is happy because they’re moving back to the good old USA, to escape the oppressive and backwards traditions of the Asian people. Not only that, but I think the movie portrays east Asians in a very negative light. It shows them to be shallow, material, petty, and mindless. Not only that, but it shows the racism many east Asians do have, during the scene with the Sikh guards.

    Let’s be honest, this movie did not flatter the yellow people at all. Imagine what negros and Muslims will think while watching this movie. Like the worst stereotypes of white people but ramped up to 10 on Asians.

    Overall, I thought it was a pretty funny movie as well. I find chinapeople hilarious, so maybe that’s why. Steve, I get that you want to be negative, but if you take out the first scene and the asinine comments by the director (who nobody gives a shit about) and the media, it was quite a solid performance that really did not glorify the chinks. If anything, it did the opposite.

    I rate 8/10.

  86. @Anon
    OT

    There's a hilarious dust-up in the U.K. right now over television chef Jamie Oliver's cultural appropriation of Jamaica in the form of a microwavable "jerk rice" product.

    A member of pariliament has jumped into the fray. A Jamaican chef-entrepreneur is hoping that Jamie had nothing to do with this atrocity and that it was a cock-up by his staff.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-45246009

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/20/jamie-olivers-jerk-rice-dish-a-mistake-says-jamaica-born-chef

    Jamie has issued a statement:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/jamie-oliver-jerk-rice-row-chef-responds-to-accusations-of-cultural-appropriation-a3916311.html

    In the course of watching news shows about this I saw a white male newsreader read the Wikipedia definition of "cultural appropriation," and I may have detected a slight note of sarcasm in his voice. In any event, the definition threw me, becasue it's been racismized: defined in such a way that only white people can culturally appropriate, while the Great Underrepresented can rip off stuff to their heart's content. I think that this also explains why a second generation Korean American can accuse a white American of cultural appropriation for making a Korean dish, even though the white may have lived in Korea and worked at a Korean restaurant for years and the Korean American grew up eating macaroni and cheese.


    Wikipedia: Cultural appropriation is the adoption of elements of a minority culture by members of the dominant culture. It is distinguished from an equal cultural exchange due to an imbalance of power, often as a byproduct of colonialism and oppression.
     

    I think that this also explains why a second generation Korean American can accuse a white American of cultural appropriation for making a Korean dish

    In English, on the internet.

  87. @Gimeiyo
    I saw the trailers for this, and saw some of the self-congratulation about how this is "ground-breaking" or some such rot, but it looks (from the trailers) and sounds (from your review) like a story I've seen with an all-Asian cast probably 100 times already, because I watch a lot of junky Korean and Japanese TV dramas.

    I don't watch many Taiwanese dramas because I don't speak Chinese, but even with Korean, I'm pretty sure I've seen it with a girl coming back from America before too . . although I think the usual set-up is poor woman in Korea meets wealthy heir to a conglomerate who has been frittering away his time playing around in Australia or the United States or wherever, but the time has come for him to put away childish things so he is returning to the Fatherland. While Korean TV dramas occasionally have White or half-White men in prominent roles, they're usually set up to be the romantic false lead, after which the heroine wises up and falls in love with a proper Korean. I recall one from a few years ago where the White is already her fiance in episode one, and there's zero narrative tension about whether she's going to break up with him and marry this random Korean man her family found for her because of course she is going to.

    Anyhow. There's absolutely nothing groundbreaking about doing a story like this, even with an Asian cast. Heck, if any of them are Chinese actors/actresses, they may have acted out the plot of this movie a dozen times already, for the Chinese market.

    While Korean TV dramas occasionally have White or half-White men in prominent roles, they’re usually set up to be the romantic false lead, after which the heroine wises up and falls in love with a proper Korean. I recall one from a few years ago where the White is already her fiance in episode one, and there’s zero narrative tension about whether she’s going to break up with him and marry this random Korean man her family found for her because of course she is going to.

    I continually point out the parallel failure of narrative tension in western crime shows. The black suspect always turns out to be innocent. The tension can only come from guessing whether he was framed (by police or racists) whether he was nobly taking the rap for a white women, accused by a scorned white woman and so on.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    And Perry Mason never lost a case. Pretty sure you’re not the target audience for those shows. That neighborhood has gone to seed - maybe time to leave for greener pastures.
  88. @Gimeiyo
    I saw the trailers for this, and saw some of the self-congratulation about how this is "ground-breaking" or some such rot, but it looks (from the trailers) and sounds (from your review) like a story I've seen with an all-Asian cast probably 100 times already, because I watch a lot of junky Korean and Japanese TV dramas.

    I don't watch many Taiwanese dramas because I don't speak Chinese, but even with Korean, I'm pretty sure I've seen it with a girl coming back from America before too . . although I think the usual set-up is poor woman in Korea meets wealthy heir to a conglomerate who has been frittering away his time playing around in Australia or the United States or wherever, but the time has come for him to put away childish things so he is returning to the Fatherland. While Korean TV dramas occasionally have White or half-White men in prominent roles, they're usually set up to be the romantic false lead, after which the heroine wises up and falls in love with a proper Korean. I recall one from a few years ago where the White is already her fiance in episode one, and there's zero narrative tension about whether she's going to break up with him and marry this random Korean man her family found for her because of course she is going to.

    Anyhow. There's absolutely nothing groundbreaking about doing a story like this, even with an Asian cast. Heck, if any of them are Chinese actors/actresses, they may have acted out the plot of this movie a dozen times already, for the Chinese market.

    While Korean TV dramas occasionally have White or half-White men in prominent roles, they’re usually set up to be the romantic false lead, after which the heroine wises up and falls in love with a proper Korean. I recall one from a few years ago where the White is already her fiance in episode one, and there’s zero narrative tension about whether she’s going to break up with him and marry this random Korean man her family found for her because of course she is going to.

    I continually point out the parallel failure of narrative tension in western crime shows. The black suspect always turns out to be innocent. The tension can only come from guessing whether he was framed (by police or racists) whether he was nobly taking the rap for a white woman, accused by a scorned white woman and so on.

  89. @Anon
    OT Jamie Oliver

    [Yikes, just read Steve's comment, which appeared while I was writing this. So this comment is a bit redundant.]

    It occurred to me that this jerk rice thing in conjunction with the woke definition of cultural appropriation is the precursor to a literal implementation of Steve's analysis of cultural appropriation as the feeling among minorities that they should be getting a monthly check from taxes levied on whitey.

    Oliver licensed his name to the producer of jerk rice, and he's getting paid for it. Under cultural approriation theory (CAT), a Jamaincan guy, or a person of Jamaican ancestry, could "invent" jerk rice and nobody would complain. (Jamie's jerk rice is a problem because he doesn't use allspice, and jerked food has traditionally been chicken and pork, among other things besides his race.) A Jamaican person's jerk rice would be "culinary innovation" under CAT, not cultural appropriation. So he could license it to a food producer and get monthly checks.

    Meanwhile, any URM could "notice" a case of commercial cultural appropriate, raise a Twitter storm, and drive the appropriator out of business. Next step, develop one's own version, and license it to get the monthly check. Any sort of new food would require a check to a minority to be issued, unless the food had zero non-white lineage. Companies would find URM to use to launder new foods. "We're paying a URM, so it's O.K."

    It would be a racket simlar to all the divesity and inclusion jobs and advertising and commercial "person of vaguely non-white ethnicity" modeling and acting jobs. Also, a new job category of bias editor has arisen in the publishing industry, where they hire someone to read new novel manuscripts that they have bought, or are thinking of buying, to identify implicit bias that would need to be sanitized out (or to insulation publishers from responsibility when bias is inevitably found).

    I imagine that a URM consulting industry would arise that offers cultural auditing services to companies about to issue new food products. O.K., it's pizza, and that's pretty much white, but actually there is an Africana studies professor who claims that pizza was invented in Africa, the auditor might discover.

    URM?

    • Replies: @Fred Boynton
    Under-Represented Minority
  90. You were very astute in linking Crazy Rich Asians with Black Panther, but they’re identical for a deeper reason other than both just having a mono racial cast. Although you take a swipe at Black Panther because Wakanda is not real, in a very real sense for Asian Americans, the life in Crazy Rich Asians is not real and is a life they yearn for, which is why the books and movie sold so well.

    The underlying tension in the book, which you probably didn’t pick up as a non-Asian is that Asian Americans objectively know that living standards are better in the West than in China/Japan/SK, etc., and that the West is richer than Asia and that they’re below Westerners on the status totem pole. which is aggravating to any individual or people.

    Blacks dreamed of a society they could be proud of in Wakanda, where the sister is a genius scientist and they have technology and smarts beyond the West. I guess everybody yearns for what they don’t have. Asians dream of a society where they are rich, cool, fashion icons, most eligible bachelors/bachelorettes, socialites, dealmakers, etc. It doesn’t hurt that the main readership is young Asian girls who lap this stuff up, and wish for a more glamorous life than the typical stable middle-class life of most Asian American families. It just so happens that the author is Singaporean and Singapore is the perfect context for these aspirations. It’s a rich city with a per capita income higher than the West, sophisticated, clean, nominally democratic, beautiful, and they speak English so most of the bananas can digest the media. Its a shining example which Asians can crow about. It’s also half way around the world in a tropical area where most people have a hole of knowledge of that area in the world, so it has something mystical about it. Most people from the West haven’t been there, Asian Americans included, it might as well be a fantasy land like Wakanda.

    The underlying message of the book is that Asian Americans are lower class, let me present to you the real upper class Asians. I haven’t watched the movie yet, probably should have said that sooner, only read the book, so this might not come out in the movie as much. As examples from my memory, a few digs they make: There’s a line how Asians who are too stupid to make it in China leave for the West. There’s the dig against Rachel by her grandmother-in-law who is not impressed by her Harvard or some such school’s credentials and wants an upper-class Singaporean Chinese girl for her grandson. There’s a bite at how unrefined Asian-Americans are who are assimilated into in Western culture: “over familiar and irrationally confident”. Etc.

    This is mostly the reverse of reality. Most Asian American immigration has been of the upper middle class so per capita Asian Americans are more impressive here than if you take a random Chinese person in China. But that’s depressing to Asian Americans. We’re sending some of our best, and they’re doing well in America, but its not like they’re at the top of the hierarchy.

    So Asian Americans imagine this world in Crazy Rich Asians where Asians are at the top of the hierarchy basically. These upper class Chinese Singaporeans are so rich they can clown on Westerners, like that hotel scene, don’t have to pander to Western tastes, lots of detail in the book about Asian customs and traditions but with maxed out consumption.

    • Replies: @DFH
    It's very embarassing for Asians if a very crass sort of materialism really is their fantasy.
    , @Desiderius
    “This is mostly the reverse of reality. “

    Who knows?

    The first derivative doesn’t look so rosy for the westernizers.
    , @scrivener3
    "These upper class Chinese Singaporeans are so rich they can clown on Westerners, like that hotel scene, don’t have to pander to Western tastes"

    I don;t know, their cities look like any western city. They could have created their own native style but it looks like a clone of NY. Paris does not look like a clone of NY, they limit skyscrapers.

    The women dress in western fashion. The hotels are copies of British hotels, I'll bet they listen to American music or even more western Beethoven's 9th, their kids play violin not Asian instruments, what movies do they watch, do their rich young men drive ferrari's? All western.
  91. @Steve Sailer
    Americans used to have a term called "Oriental" for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.

    This caused some confusion because the British used "Oriental" for Middle Easterners: e.g., Edward Said's "Orientalism" is not at all interested in what the British call the "Far East."

    The real confusion came around 1982 when the feds transferred South Asians from Caucasian to Asian to qualify South Asian businessmen for low interest SBA loans and minority privileges in government contracting.

    Why not make South Asians their own category?

    Americans used to have a term called “Oriental” for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.

    I recall when “Oriental” was a fine word, and then when it suddenly became unacceptable in reference to the different flavors of yellowish people with black hair. It simply means “East” m the sense of the rising sun in the East. I suppose the objection was that these people are only from the East if you’re from the West, so it’s Western-centric or something. My Grandmother was unable to catch up with the times and continued using it for the rest of her life but mostly with respect to various Chop Suey merchants and their delivery slaves.

    Asian seems weird to me, not the least because it’s perhaps even less precise than Oriental.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I still say “oriental” all the time. I get a dirty look once in a while but that’s it.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    I've written about this matter multiple times here under the iSteve posts. I haven't been getting through to everyone, apparently. Yes, "Oriental" is more specific, and as Steve wrote above, Asia is a BIG place (the biggest continent, for one thing.)

    I will say that Oriental is used to denote these lands/people being EAST OF EUROPE. For Americans, the Orient is TO THE WEST, unless we want to take the long way around. For the airline great circle routes, meaning the shortest way (other than drilling through the earth) you'd be surprised what the initial heading for a course from say, Washington, FS to Shanghai, China, would be. It'd be just 5 degrees west of due north, starting out.

    Take a globe, and use a piece of thread and just play with it on some of the routes. It's pretty cool. At this point, the long-range airliners (B777, B787, A-350) can almost go 1/2 way around the world, depending on expected weather, meaning any point can be reached from any other.

    Wait, that's not my point. My point is "Oriental" is the term, and we're done talkin' about it!
    , @Flip
    I use Oriental and my much younger girlfriend says it is like using the word colored or Negro. I don't agree.
  92. @Steve Sailer
    As I said in my review, "Why the movie isn't entitled 'Crazy Rich Chinese' is never explained."

    And tan Asians make up another large part of Asia. Assad, for example, isn't very brown.

    Asia is really big.

    Assad, for example, isn’t very brown.

    That’s putting it mildly…..

  93. @Gimeiyo
    I saw the trailers for this, and saw some of the self-congratulation about how this is "ground-breaking" or some such rot, but it looks (from the trailers) and sounds (from your review) like a story I've seen with an all-Asian cast probably 100 times already, because I watch a lot of junky Korean and Japanese TV dramas.

    I don't watch many Taiwanese dramas because I don't speak Chinese, but even with Korean, I'm pretty sure I've seen it with a girl coming back from America before too . . although I think the usual set-up is poor woman in Korea meets wealthy heir to a conglomerate who has been frittering away his time playing around in Australia or the United States or wherever, but the time has come for him to put away childish things so he is returning to the Fatherland. While Korean TV dramas occasionally have White or half-White men in prominent roles, they're usually set up to be the romantic false lead, after which the heroine wises up and falls in love with a proper Korean. I recall one from a few years ago where the White is already her fiance in episode one, and there's zero narrative tension about whether she's going to break up with him and marry this random Korean man her family found for her because of course she is going to.

    Anyhow. There's absolutely nothing groundbreaking about doing a story like this, even with an Asian cast. Heck, if any of them are Chinese actors/actresses, they may have acted out the plot of this movie a dozen times already, for the Chinese market.

    I saw the trailers for this, and saw some of the self-congratulation about how this is “ground-breaking” or some such rot, but it looks (from the trailers) and sounds (from your review) like a story I’ve seen with an all-Asian cast probably 100 times already, because I watch a lot of junky Korean and Japanese TV dramas.

    Get WOKE, bigot. It only counts when the movie/TV show is made by Hollywood.

  94. Anon[123] • Disclaimer says:

    “The movie actually displays a pro-American bias. Not sure how you think it’s an SJW film.”

    The movie is a love-letter to an underserved heterosexual female audience. White ladies probably make up the largest or second largest demographic for this film. The SJW part comes from racist critics who are praising it for supposedly bashing whitey for some odd reason (in their minds, everything is about bashing whitey), not necessarily from the movie itself.

  95. The film did not have enough shouting, the Chinese love to do that:

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    The film did not have enough shouting, the Chinese love to do that:
     
    You don’t seem to realize that China and Singapore may share ethnicities, but have vastly different civic cultures.
  96. Anon[631] • Disclaimer says:

    “How did it get there? I suppose Chinese and other Asians are flocking to the movie theaters. We know black Americans are not interested. … I don’t get how this movie shot to the top.”

    1. Weak competition.

    2. Heterosexual white women.

    Probably only 40% of the American audience will be Asian. The rest will be white women who want a romantic themed tale of marrying up to a rich guy. Traditional values in disguise. Same reason why Fifty Shades of Grey and Twilight were popular: masculine, socially valuable male character who does stereotypically masculine things like protecting females from danger or offering them resources through the prospect of a relationship is coveted by a female protagonist ordinary women can relate to.

    Hollywood is filled with feminist lesbians who don’t get why this would be popular. That’s why I advocate moving the entertainment industry out of LA. to where normies live. A movie like this should have been recognized as an obvious hit in advance, and it would have been had the kinds of females who read Fifty Shades of Grey in bewilderment had not been in charge of the industry – well, in a position to influence those in charge; gay men and Jews think lesbians are drab losers.

    3. Strong, underserved Asian audience in the US. The movie may actually flop in Asia proper.

    4. Lack of threatening black men.

    That’s why I advocate removing blacks as token minorities and replacing them with less-threatening Asians. Family audiences and heterosexual women will be more comfortable seeing those kinds of movies. There are rare exceptions, Black Panther, but those are usually male-oriented movies that are all about violence and conflict, places where black men fit in well.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Its odd, maybe, but while I rather like watching Chinese movies, I don't actually plan on watching this at all. Maybe someday.

    Hooray Singaporeans.

    Meh. At least they stopped adding 'lah' to the end of everything, I think?

  97. Wonder if John Derbyshire and his family have had the chance to see the film yet?

  98. The lone white characters are a couple of racist desk clerks at a fancy London hotel in a prelude set in 1995. They turn away the imperious Michelle Yeoh (of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon) because who had ever heard of a rich Chinese person way back in 1995?

    Is this going to be the go-to East Asian version of “My grandfather couldn’t get into the WASP country club?”

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Is this going to be the go-to East Asian version of “My grandfather couldn’t get into the WASP country club?”
     
    I read in a review that the mom character bought the hotel... so, no.
  99. @beene345
    Your ethnicity designations are off:

    -Yul Brynner may or may not have had 1/4 ancestry from one of the Asianish tribes in Russia. But even if he did, he wasn't very Asian.

    -Bruce Lee was probably 7/8ths Asian, although a new book claims, without much proof, that he was 5/8ths.

    -Keanu Reeves is a very small fraction Asian, less than 1/8th most likely. He's about one quarter non-white overall, with most of that quarter being Hawaiian. In any case, I highly doubt the casting or non-casting of Reeves had anything to do with this movie.

    As for Gemma Chan, it would seem that her mother is fully Asian, not half.
    https://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/culture/tv-radio/interview-gemma-chan-star-of-true-love-1-2321152

    Gemma Chan does not look like a “Melania Asian.” You can not tell she is 1/4 white. She looks totally Asian. Saying Chan looks whitish is like saying Rashida Jones can play Italians. I’ve seen more Mexicans who look Italian.

    Also, Henry Golding looks totally Asian. His mother is white, but the Asian genes were dominant. His wife Liv Lo is 1/2 Italian and 1/2 Chinese. There’s nothing Italian about her either.

    If Derbyshire is reading these comments, he better get over his incredibly degenerate fantasy of a white – Northeast Asian alliance.

    Henry Golding, Gemma Chan confirm what I’ve said before: hapas will almost always stay Asians.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Also, Henry Golding looks totally Asian.
     
    Dunno. I remember watching the ads and noting that he looked Eurasian:

    https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2017/03/28/28-henry-golding.w1200.h630.jpg
    , @attilathehen
    .
  100. Any walk-ons by Jim Rogers?

  101. @Anon
    So, what is the message of this movie? Asian male market value is so low that he needs a billion dollars to get a girl?

    “So, what is the message of this movie? Asian male market value is so low that he needs a billion dollars to get a girl?”

    No, the price of Asian poontang has gone way up.

    • Replies: @Anon
    No, the price of Asian poontang has gone way up.

    It's too bad this wasn't produced by Dickson Poon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickson_Poon
  102. @Ali Choudhury
    I am married to an economics professor and can confirm the unworldliness is not an unrealistic personality trait.

    It’s a necessary trait to believe the nonsense they have to teach.

  103. @Anon
    As does Hong Kong, Shanghai, and Beijing, etc etc.
    It’s almost as if some cultures have capabilities.


    Not for long. I would bet on Planet of the Apu as Indians still produce life. East Asians produce wealth but no life. They will be replaced. And as they're educated in the West, they are welcoming replacement as necessary and good.

    But maybe Singapore and HK can last longer because they can take in mainland Chinese.
    But Japan and SK? They will fade in half a century.

    East Asians produce wealth but no life. They will be replaced. And as they’re educated in the West, they are welcoming replacement as necessary and good.

    Tiny Peking Duck?

  104. @Anon
    "How did it get there? I suppose Chinese and other Asians are flocking to the movie theaters. We know black Americans are not interested. ... I don’t get how this movie shot to the top."

    1. Weak competition.

    2. Heterosexual white women.

    Probably only 40% of the American audience will be Asian. The rest will be white women who want a romantic themed tale of marrying up to a rich guy. Traditional values in disguise. Same reason why Fifty Shades of Grey and Twilight were popular: masculine, socially valuable male character who does stereotypically masculine things like protecting females from danger or offering them resources through the prospect of a relationship is coveted by a female protagonist ordinary women can relate to.

    Hollywood is filled with feminist lesbians who don't get why this would be popular. That's why I advocate moving the entertainment industry out of LA. to where normies live. A movie like this should have been recognized as an obvious hit in advance, and it would have been had the kinds of females who read Fifty Shades of Grey in bewilderment had not been in charge of the industry - well, in a position to influence those in charge; gay men and Jews think lesbians are drab losers.

    3. Strong, underserved Asian audience in the US. The movie may actually flop in Asia proper.

    4. Lack of threatening black men.

    That's why I advocate removing blacks as token minorities and replacing them with less-threatening Asians. Family audiences and heterosexual women will be more comfortable seeing those kinds of movies. There are rare exceptions, Black Panther, but those are usually male-oriented movies that are all about violence and conflict, places where black men fit in well.

    Its odd, maybe, but while I rather like watching Chinese movies, I don’t actually plan on watching this at all. Maybe someday.

    Hooray Singaporeans.

    Meh. At least they stopped adding ‘lah’ to the end of everything, I think?

  105. I honestly thought this movie was going to fail hard as I was expecting just more diaspora onanism, which it is, but apparently I overestimated it’s popularity. Still I suspect it would elicit nothing more than a big yawn in Asia itself *knock on wood*.

    Most Asians are actually quite facially distinctive, you just have to be born in an environment where you are able to detect the appropriate facial cues. Asians in Asia actually have difficulty telling White people’s faces apart. The diversity in hair coloring helps somewhat, but facial features themselves just kind of blend together for most.

    EDMW CHALLENGE!

    This photo list I originally created just to see if people could tell Chinese, Japanese, and Korean faces apart because so many other lists I’ve found were very poorly done using photos of celebrities culled from google which were often airbrushed and edited for particular cultural trends which kind of defeated the purpose. That said, it also serves as a useful reminder of just how varied the facial morphology of Asians are..

    • Replies: @Panopticon
    https://imgur.com/a/5Hfcc

    So which ones are Chinese, Japanese, and Korean?
  106. @Alden
    Ha, dream on.

    Here’s something I heard about that first Star Wars sequel Phantom Menace that came out in 1999 ? I worked at UCLA at the time in south campus engineering and science mostly Chinese and not Americans Chinese nationals and very recent immigrants.

    There was a first ever showing midnight premier in a theater 2 blocks from campus. Some Chinese brought in tiny concealed cameras & audio and recorded the movie.

    As soon as the movie ended they ran out to the street and gave the cameras to Chinese waiting in cars.

    Then off to the nearby airport on the nearby freeway.

    Couriers waited in front of the international terminal. The cameras were handed off and went on the 5 am flight to China. The videos were on sale less than a day after the cameras arrived in China.

    That was the gossip among those Chinese national tech students and assistant professors.

    I don’t sympathize with the loss of revenue from movies.

    I remember those early recordings. I was utterly shocked how fast they were out on the streets globally. I was watching a pretty decent CD (DVD players were still something most people hadn’t even heard about yet. The resolution was pretty low but the picture quality for the resolution was perfect) of the film maybe a week after I saw the thing in theatres. A neighbour brought in a golden CD and wanted to see my reaction when I played it to find out what was on it.

    Edward Said was wrong about ‘Orientalism’ being without merit. From a European (Or at least North Western European) perspective there is a lot that non-Western Eurasians have in common societally and morally.

  107. @Brutusale
    The Chinese may have to develop a bit of respect for intellectual property.

    The Chinese may have to develop a bit of respect for intellectual property.

    That would be cultural appropriation!

  108. @Asian American
    You were very astute in linking Crazy Rich Asians with Black Panther, but they're identical for a deeper reason other than both just having a mono racial cast. Although you take a swipe at Black Panther because Wakanda is not real, in a very real sense for Asian Americans, the life in Crazy Rich Asians is not real and is a life they yearn for, which is why the books and movie sold so well.

    The underlying tension in the book, which you probably didn't pick up as a non-Asian is that Asian Americans objectively know that living standards are better in the West than in China/Japan/SK, etc., and that the West is richer than Asia and that they're below Westerners on the status totem pole. which is aggravating to any individual or people.

    Blacks dreamed of a society they could be proud of in Wakanda, where the sister is a genius scientist and they have technology and smarts beyond the West. I guess everybody yearns for what they don't have. Asians dream of a society where they are rich, cool, fashion icons, most eligible bachelors/bachelorettes, socialites, dealmakers, etc. It doesn't hurt that the main readership is young Asian girls who lap this stuff up, and wish for a more glamorous life than the typical stable middle-class life of most Asian American families. It just so happens that the author is Singaporean and Singapore is the perfect context for these aspirations. It's a rich city with a per capita income higher than the West, sophisticated, clean, nominally democratic, beautiful, and they speak English so most of the bananas can digest the media. Its a shining example which Asians can crow about. It's also half way around the world in a tropical area where most people have a hole of knowledge of that area in the world, so it has something mystical about it. Most people from the West haven't been there, Asian Americans included, it might as well be a fantasy land like Wakanda.

    The underlying message of the book is that Asian Americans are lower class, let me present to you the real upper class Asians. I haven't watched the movie yet, probably should have said that sooner, only read the book, so this might not come out in the movie as much. As examples from my memory, a few digs they make: There's a line how Asians who are too stupid to make it in China leave for the West. There's the dig against Rachel by her grandmother-in-law who is not impressed by her Harvard or some such school's credentials and wants an upper-class Singaporean Chinese girl for her grandson. There's a bite at how unrefined Asian-Americans are who are assimilated into in Western culture: "over familiar and irrationally confident". Etc.

    This is mostly the reverse of reality. Most Asian American immigration has been of the upper middle class so per capita Asian Americans are more impressive here than if you take a random Chinese person in China. But that's depressing to Asian Americans. We're sending some of our best, and they're doing well in America, but its not like they're at the top of the hierarchy.

    So Asian Americans imagine this world in Crazy Rich Asians where Asians are at the top of the hierarchy basically. These upper class Chinese Singaporeans are so rich they can clown on Westerners, like that hotel scene, don't have to pander to Western tastes, lots of detail in the book about Asian customs and traditions but with maxed out consumption.

    It’s very embarassing for Asians if a very crass sort of materialism really is their fantasy.

    • Replies: @Asian American
    Asians love money and respect those who have money. They're quite unabashed about it.

    As a culture shock, when I was watching Black Panther I was thinking, wtf kind of succession process is this, with successful challengers in mortal combat dethroning the old king. Why would you care if your king is the baddest warrior in the land.
    , @Alden
    Why should it be embarrassing?
    , @Anon
    It’s very embarassing for Asians if a very crass sort of materialism really is their fantasy.

    Bling is the only culture left.
  109. @Desiderius
    How about Dark Aryans?

    Give them a little edge.

    I would prefer “H1B Elves” myself.

  110. @Anon
    As does Hong Kong, Shanghai, and Beijing, etc etc.
    It’s almost as if some cultures have capabilities.


    Not for long. I would bet on Planet of the Apu as Indians still produce life. East Asians produce wealth but no life. They will be replaced. And as they're educated in the West, they are welcoming replacement as necessary and good.

    But maybe Singapore and HK can last longer because they can take in mainland Chinese.
    But Japan and SK? They will fade in half a century.

    East Asians produce wealth but no life. They will be replaced.

    We will see about the replacement thing once the engineered version of Life comes out of the lab.

    It’s gonna be fun.

    Till then, patience.

  111. @Dave Pinsen
    An interesting idea for a prequel would follow the development of the rich family into its wealth, starting in pre-war Singapore, then covering the Japanese invasion and occupation, independence, etc.

    But that would be a serious movie.

  112. @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.

    In this movie, nobody seems to notice that the actor playing the Mr. Darcy dreamboat boyfriend character is obviously quite white.

    But that possibility isn't foreclosed for a sequel, either. The character's name is "Nick Young," not "Yung," and his family is Christian (the ladies are shown holding a Bible study session). So it's left a possibility that the boyfriend's father is descended in his patrilineal line from a British tai-pan named Young rather than a Chinese Yung. And it's specifically set up that the fiance's dad could show up at any time rather than that he's dead or whatever.

    The people who made the movie aren't dumb, so they might be thinking about bringing in Keanu Reeves or Dean Cain or another handsome Eurasian star in the sequel to play the boyfriend's father, and claim that is okay under their (broadly defined) All-Asian Cast rule. But they also probably don't want to get themselves in a position in which the agents of the tiny number of 50-something Eurasian handsome guys like Reeves and Cain can hold them up for a big payday. So they seem to be keeping their options open.

    Also, in this movie they briefly introduce at the very end as old flame of the beautiful part white cousiness played by Gemma Chan, a guy who is almost a dead ringer for Joseph Gordon-Levitt, the American movie star whom everybody thinks is 1/4 Asian although he says he's 100% Jewish. But the actor turns out to be some Chinese pop star raised in Costa Rica and California who is good at Western facial expressions.

    In general, the franchise seems to me to need a little more Hollywood movie star firepower to really cash in on future installments. But don't rule out the producers pulling a rabbit out of their sleeves.

    The race of the actor playing the love interest is interesting because in the book, Kevin Kwan is clearly touchy as hell about Asian women going after white men. The heroine’s original preference for white men is presented as a psychological reaction to never knowing her Asian father, and every Asian around her regards it as a terrible handicap. One of the great themes is her finally putting away childish (read: white) things and accepting her Chinese-ness, and getting with a nice Chinese boy.

  113. @Lurker

    While Korean TV dramas occasionally have White or half-White men in prominent roles, they’re usually set up to be the romantic false lead, after which the heroine wises up and falls in love with a proper Korean. I recall one from a few years ago where the White is already her fiance in episode one, and there’s zero narrative tension about whether she’s going to break up with him and marry this random Korean man her family found for her because of course she is going to.
     
    I continually point out the parallel failure of narrative tension in western crime shows. The black suspect always turns out to be innocent. The tension can only come from guessing whether he was framed (by police or racists) whether he was nobly taking the rap for a white women, accused by a scorned white woman and so on.

    And Perry Mason never lost a case. Pretty sure you’re not the target audience for those shows. That neighborhood has gone to seed – maybe time to leave for greener pastures.

  114. @The Last Real Calvinist

    They’re making them for themselves now.

     

    Maybe.

    The Hong Kong film industry was a Big Thing back in the 1990s when I moved here. Now, eh, there are still locally-made movies coming out regularly, but there seems to be much less excitement/anticipation.

    I wonder if the ubiquity of pirating in this region has taken the wind out of the local film industry's sails.

    The Hong Kong film industry was a Big Thing back in the 1990s when I moved here.

    The last Hong Kong movie I enjoyed was “Infernal Affairs” which was ruinously remade as “The Departed.”

    Even Japanese cinema seems to be in the doldrums lately. On the other hand, the South Korean film industry seems to be in the high right now. Quite a few are available on Netflix, and I’m surprised that young Europeans and Americans seem to know Korean actors/actresses. Maybe they are benefiting from the K-drama and K-pop-fueled “Korean Wave.”

    • Replies: @Seth Largo
    I thought Prachya Pinkaew's Ong Bak movies, coupled with the Ryan Gosling Muay Thai flick Only God Forgives, was gonna lead to a huge breakout for the Thai film industry. But it seem to have fizzled, with the exception of the Ong Bak sequels.
    , @Anon
    Even Japanese cinema seems to be in the doldrums lately.

    Lately? It plummeted in the late 60s. On and off, Japan made some great movies, but it's one of the saddest declines, along with Italian cinema.

    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    The last Hong Kong movie I enjoyed was “Infernal Affairs” which was ruinously remade as “The Departed.”
     
    LOL. The Departed was a huge improvement over Infernal Affairs. First off, The Departed had a sense of humor. Infernal Affairs was way heavy on the self-serious mopey melodrama. And the plodding score and editing was sleep inducing.

    Look lively, gents!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKIPOV1nIAc

    Rooftop homosexual assignation vs. two guys who want to kill each other:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJhixh0FpN0
  115. @jim jones
    The film did not have enough shouting, the Chinese love to do that:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-nGI42f5X0

    The film did not have enough shouting, the Chinese love to do that:

    You don’t seem to realize that China and Singapore may share ethnicities, but have vastly different civic cultures.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The Singaporean elite has certainly had more real success recently than GlobohomoCorp.

    There is a real problem with “our” elite, and it’s been getting worse for a long time. That they’re not really ours, by their own choice, is a big part of it. There are all sorts of explanations, but bottom line is they, and we, have no business considering them elite to anyone, whether ourselves or the elites of other cultures who haven’t gone down that path.
  116. @Asian American
    You were very astute in linking Crazy Rich Asians with Black Panther, but they're identical for a deeper reason other than both just having a mono racial cast. Although you take a swipe at Black Panther because Wakanda is not real, in a very real sense for Asian Americans, the life in Crazy Rich Asians is not real and is a life they yearn for, which is why the books and movie sold so well.

    The underlying tension in the book, which you probably didn't pick up as a non-Asian is that Asian Americans objectively know that living standards are better in the West than in China/Japan/SK, etc., and that the West is richer than Asia and that they're below Westerners on the status totem pole. which is aggravating to any individual or people.

    Blacks dreamed of a society they could be proud of in Wakanda, where the sister is a genius scientist and they have technology and smarts beyond the West. I guess everybody yearns for what they don't have. Asians dream of a society where they are rich, cool, fashion icons, most eligible bachelors/bachelorettes, socialites, dealmakers, etc. It doesn't hurt that the main readership is young Asian girls who lap this stuff up, and wish for a more glamorous life than the typical stable middle-class life of most Asian American families. It just so happens that the author is Singaporean and Singapore is the perfect context for these aspirations. It's a rich city with a per capita income higher than the West, sophisticated, clean, nominally democratic, beautiful, and they speak English so most of the bananas can digest the media. Its a shining example which Asians can crow about. It's also half way around the world in a tropical area where most people have a hole of knowledge of that area in the world, so it has something mystical about it. Most people from the West haven't been there, Asian Americans included, it might as well be a fantasy land like Wakanda.

    The underlying message of the book is that Asian Americans are lower class, let me present to you the real upper class Asians. I haven't watched the movie yet, probably should have said that sooner, only read the book, so this might not come out in the movie as much. As examples from my memory, a few digs they make: There's a line how Asians who are too stupid to make it in China leave for the West. There's the dig against Rachel by her grandmother-in-law who is not impressed by her Harvard or some such school's credentials and wants an upper-class Singaporean Chinese girl for her grandson. There's a bite at how unrefined Asian-Americans are who are assimilated into in Western culture: "over familiar and irrationally confident". Etc.

    This is mostly the reverse of reality. Most Asian American immigration has been of the upper middle class so per capita Asian Americans are more impressive here than if you take a random Chinese person in China. But that's depressing to Asian Americans. We're sending some of our best, and they're doing well in America, but its not like they're at the top of the hierarchy.

    So Asian Americans imagine this world in Crazy Rich Asians where Asians are at the top of the hierarchy basically. These upper class Chinese Singaporeans are so rich they can clown on Westerners, like that hotel scene, don't have to pander to Western tastes, lots of detail in the book about Asian customs and traditions but with maxed out consumption.

    “This is mostly the reverse of reality. “

    Who knows?

    The first derivative doesn’t look so rosy for the westernizers.

  117. I’m obviously not going to watch this soap opera for the ladies. I’m waiting to see “Columbus” on Netflix or Blu-ray, not because of John Cho, but because I read that the cinematography of architecture is very good.

    • Replies: @Alden
    It really is a chick flick for teens and early 20s. It will do well in the Asian areas of California.
  118. @syonredux

    The lone white characters are a couple of racist desk clerks at a fancy London hotel in a prelude set in 1995. They turn away the imperious Michelle Yeoh (of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon) because who had ever heard of a rich Chinese person way back in 1995?

     

    Is this going to be the go-to East Asian version of "My grandfather couldn't get into the WASP country club?"

    Is this going to be the go-to East Asian version of “My grandfather couldn’t get into the WASP country club?”

    I read in a review that the mom character bought the hotel… so, no.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    You’re missing the point.

    Plenty of Jews can now afford all the Country Clubs they’d like to buy.
    , @syonredux

    Is this going to be the go-to East Asian version of “My grandfather couldn’t get into the WASP country club?”

    I read in a review that the mom character bought the hotel… so, no.
     
    Dunno. Buying the place adds the perfect cherry to the tale......
  119. @Twinkie

    The film did not have enough shouting, the Chinese love to do that:
     
    You don’t seem to realize that China and Singapore may share ethnicities, but have vastly different civic cultures.

    The Singaporean elite has certainly had more real success recently than GlobohomoCorp.

    There is a real problem with “our” elite, and it’s been getting worse for a long time. That they’re not really ours, by their own choice, is a big part of it. There are all sorts of explanations, but bottom line is they, and we, have no business considering them elite to anyone, whether ourselves or the elites of other cultures who haven’t gone down that path.

  120. @Twinkie

    Is this going to be the go-to East Asian version of “My grandfather couldn’t get into the WASP country club?”
     
    I read in a review that the mom character bought the hotel... so, no.

    You’re missing the point.

    Plenty of Jews can now afford all the Country Clubs they’d like to buy.

    • Agree: syonredux
  121. I saw this linked at Razib Khan’s site and found it unintentionally funny:

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/21/where-are-the-brown-people-crazy-rich-asians-draws-tepid-response-in-singapore

    Yes, “Chinese privilege” is a thing now. Where ARE the brown people, indeed…

    • Replies: @1661er
    Ever since the novels came out, there had been some Singaporean backlash against it because the author is considered a felon draft dodger in Singapore. His case had advanced to the stage that he can not renounce Singaporean citizenship without finish his conscription service first, even if he is already aged out of conscription age.

    So it's written from the perspective of someone who would be a lifelong exile. How he could have access to better women "back home" beside Americanized Asian-American Women, except that his parent messed up and didn't renounce RoS citizenship when he was younger. So he would had to settle for lesser Asian-American women and written the novels as apologia to justify Nick Young picking Rachel as a choice rather than settling.
  122. @Twinkie

    Is this going to be the go-to East Asian version of “My grandfather couldn’t get into the WASP country club?”
     
    I read in a review that the mom character bought the hotel... so, no.

    Is this going to be the go-to East Asian version of “My grandfather couldn’t get into the WASP country club?”

    I read in a review that the mom character bought the hotel… so, no.

    Dunno. Buying the place adds the perfect cherry to the tale……

  123. @attilathehen
    Gemma Chan does not look like a "Melania Asian." You can not tell she is 1/4 white. She looks totally Asian. Saying Chan looks whitish is like saying Rashida Jones can play Italians. I've seen more Mexicans who look Italian.

    Also, Henry Golding looks totally Asian. His mother is white, but the Asian genes were dominant. His wife Liv Lo is 1/2 Italian and 1/2 Chinese. There's nothing Italian about her either.

    If Derbyshire is reading these comments, he better get over his incredibly degenerate fantasy of a white - Northeast Asian alliance.

    Henry Golding, Gemma Chan confirm what I've said before: hapas will almost always stay Asians.

    Also, Henry Golding looks totally Asian.

    Dunno. I remember watching the ads and noting that he looked Eurasian:

    • Replies: @1661er
    The novels lazily described his character as looking like a young Takashi Kaneshiro.(Half-Japanese, Half-Taiwanese) Henry Golding was supposedly selected for his resemblances to that description. I can see it in some angles.

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/91/88/73/918873873052c1397efbf0ed5d0dba67.jpg
    , @Fred Boynton
    He kinda looks like the actor Dean Cain who was Superman in that Lois & Clark tv show several years back. I seem to recall that Dean Cain was Jewasian which since Jews are Asians means that Dean Cain's just regular old Asian.
    , @attilathehen
    He's the star of the movie "Crazy Rich Asians," not "Crazy Rich Caucasians." He is not Eurasian either. He is Asian
  124. @Q
    Nobody's stopping the Indians from making their own version: Crazy Poor Indians.

    Crazy Poor Indians.

    They’ve already made such a movie. It’s called Slumdog Millionaire.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    Bingo! Beat me to it.
    , @Anon
    There is actually an outstanding Crazy Rich Indians movie. Fabulous for what it is.

    Guru.

    Yes, it is ridiculous, but well-made, wonderfully acted, and inspiring too as Bollywood Ayn Rand fantasy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHugwOZyLPg
  125. @Twinkie
    I saw this linked at Razib Khan’s site and found it unintentionally funny:

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/21/where-are-the-brown-people-crazy-rich-asians-draws-tepid-response-in-singapore

    Yes, “Chinese privilege” is a thing now. Where ARE the brown people, indeed...

    Ever since the novels came out, there had been some Singaporean backlash against it because the author is considered a felon draft dodger in Singapore. His case had advanced to the stage that he can not renounce Singaporean citizenship without finish his conscription service first, even if he is already aged out of conscription age.

    So it’s written from the perspective of someone who would be a lifelong exile. How he could have access to better women “back home” beside Americanized Asian-American Women, except that his parent messed up and didn’t renounce RoS citizenship when he was younger. So he would had to settle for lesser Asian-American women and written the novels as apologia to justify Nick Young picking Rachel as a choice rather than settling.

  126. @Steve Sailer
    "Hero" of about 2003 pushed a lot of things to the limit: Chinese supremacism and budget. The movie looked like 120 Christmas perfume ads back to back. The Chinese claimed it only cost $31 million, but that just showed the yuan was undervalued.

    But it was an amazing movie. But it was also the peak of Chinese movie-making to impress Americans.

    Are directors like Zhang Yimou and Chen Kaige (not to mention their late cousin across the sea, Akira Kurosawa) consciously making movies for Westerners?

    Insofar as early filmmakers like Kurosawa were, by necessity, influenced by Western filmmaking, I suppose all subsequent East Asian directors are, too. But the sumptuous cinematography and larger-than-life narratives popularized in the 2000s defined most Chinese and Japanese film styles well before that odd period of popularization. Raise the Red Lantern and Farewell my Concubine are two good examples from the early 90s.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Are directors like Zhang Yimou and Chen Kaige (not to mention their late cousin across the sea, Akira Kurosawa) consciously making movies for Westerners?

    Consciously no. But I suppose when foreigners take notice and shower you with accolades, you do become more mindful of their responses as well. All artists make things for an audience and the change in the audience will affect, even if subconsciously, how an artist sees his own material.

    Many art film directors are surely very mindful of how cinephiles may react at film festivals. So many of their movies live or die in the film festival circuit.

  127. @Anonymous
    Steve, I think Crazy Rich Asians is Western propaganda aimed at the East Asian community, both in America and in Asia.

    The most striking thing about the movie for me was the prominence of Christianity. The Youngs are reading Bibles in English. The marriage is in a European-style cathedral. Where were the Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism? Didn't people get married in Asia before Euro Christians showed up? Singapore itself only has a minority of Christians.

    The aspirational youth of Asia will see these people buying European luxury products like Armani, Dolce and Gabbana and what not. Where are the goods produced by 5000 years of Chinese culture? It's not like they're incapable of producing it, it isn't that hard to make a handbag or dress. It's just the "cool" factor. And coolness is created by movies, books and television.

    English-speaking, Yellow on the outside White on the inside Asians were the only strong characters in the movie. And the characters had names that one associates with old money English aristocrats - Eleanor, Astrid, Alistair, Felicity, Araminta, The natives were basically portrayed as rustic bumpkins (perhaps accurately).

    Even at the deeper, philosophical level - the Chinese-minded Eleanor Young is forced to accept the Americanized Rachel as the right match for her son. Heck, her son was pretty much ready to ditch his mother, his home culture and his inheritance to live it up with CareerGrrl in NYC. It's a subtle put down of anything that opposes the standard liberal American mindset.

    I think Black Panther (which I didn't have the stomach to watch) was possibly more accepting of the native culture. Crazy Rich Asians is just a movie that tells Asians that White is Right.

    Singapore is about 20% Christian (probably more among Chinese)

  128. @syonredux

    Also, Henry Golding looks totally Asian.
     
    Dunno. I remember watching the ads and noting that he looked Eurasian:

    https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2017/03/28/28-henry-golding.w1200.h630.jpg

    The novels lazily described his character as looking like a young Takashi Kaneshiro.(Half-Japanese, Half-Taiwanese) Henry Golding was supposedly selected for his resemblances to that description. I can see it in some angles.

  129. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:

    Moreover, while the film is pleasant, the jokes are barely funny enough to qualify it as a comedy…

    Nothing with Ken Jeong in it can be funny. He’s such an over actor, like Sandra Oh. Every scene with either in it is a cringefest.

    They should’ve cast the guy who plays Kim Jong Un in The Interview to play his role. That guys is actually funny.

  130. @Twinkie

    The Hong Kong film industry was a Big Thing back in the 1990s when I moved here.
     
    The last Hong Kong movie I enjoyed was “Infernal Affairs” which was ruinously remade as “The Departed.”

    Even Japanese cinema seems to be in the doldrums lately. On the other hand, the South Korean film industry seems to be in the high right now. Quite a few are available on Netflix, and I’m surprised that young Europeans and Americans seem to know Korean actors/actresses. Maybe they are benefiting from the K-drama and K-pop-fueled “Korean Wave.”

    I thought Prachya Pinkaew’s Ong Bak movies, coupled with the Ryan Gosling Muay Thai flick Only God Forgives, was gonna lead to a huge breakout for the Thai film industry. But it seem to have fizzled, with the exception of the Ong Bak sequels.

  131. Ken Jeong, best known as The Hangover’s naked gangster in the car trunk.

    No, he’s Señor Chang, the crazy Spanish teacher on Community.

    Every once in a while, a student will come up to me and ask, “Señor Chang, why do you teach Spanish?” They say it just like that. “Why do *you* teach Spanish?” “Why you? Why not math? Why not photography? Why not martial arts?” I mean, surely, it must be in my nature to instruct you in something that’s ancient and secret, like, oh, building a wall that you can see from outer space! Well, I’ll tell you why I teach Spanish. It is none of your business, okay? I don’t wanna have any conversations about what a mysterious, inscrutable man I am. Oh hee hee hee hee hee hee! Oh hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo! *I am a Spanish Genius!* In Español, my nickname is *El Tigre Chino*! Cause my knowledge will bite her face off! So don’t question Señor Chang or you’ll get bit. Yah bit! Yah bit!

  132. @Desiderius
    How about Dark Aryans?

    Give them a little edge.

    In his book Who We Are and How We Got Here, Harvard geneticist David Reich said that all Indians today are an admixture of Iranian, Aryan and Dravidian. The Aryan genes are the highest among Brahmins in the North but still no more than a small(<10) percentage. So Dark Aryan is an overstatement.

  133. @Mr. Anon
    For some reason "asians" came to be, or at least act, greatly offended by the term "oriental", although it is an entirely neutral term and a much more specific one then the overly broad "asians". It all happened around the time that a lot of people started making a living by being offended.

    For some reason “asians” came to be, or at least act, greatly offended by the term “oriental”,

    Same thing happened with “Negro” and is currently underway with “Gypsy.” People just decide to start getting offended…..

    • Replies: @Flip
    Eskimo and Inuit...
  134. @Bucky
    Why do Chinese movies and Japanese movies suck?

    Because they don’t have any Jews.

    If Jews had been in China, China would rule the world.

    And China would have open immigration and millions of whites (and other races) living there and complaining that there are too many privileged Chinese in China.

    • Replies: @Bucky
    Well that is the price of leadership, I’m afraid. The price of empire. You get vast bounties of material goods but you do lose something spiritually.

    There must always be a hegemon and king.
  135. @Duke of Qin
    I honestly thought this movie was going to fail hard as I was expecting just more diaspora onanism, which it is, but apparently I overestimated it's popularity. Still I suspect it would elicit nothing more than a big yawn in Asia itself *knock on wood*.

    Most Asians are actually quite facially distinctive, you just have to be born in an environment where you are able to detect the appropriate facial cues. Asians in Asia actually have difficulty telling White people's faces apart. The diversity in hair coloring helps somewhat, but facial features themselves just kind of blend together for most.

    https://imgur.com/a/5Hfcc

    This photo list I originally created just to see if people could tell Chinese, Japanese, and Korean faces apart because so many other lists I've found were very poorly done using photos of celebrities culled from google which were often airbrushed and edited for particular cultural trends which kind of defeated the purpose. That said, it also serves as a useful reminder of just how varied the facial morphology of Asians are..

    EDMW CHALLENGE!

    So which ones are Chinese, Japanese, and Korean?

    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
    Results are as follows. The MORE tag doesn't seem to show in the previews, but if it displays properly then fine, if not, no peaking!



    1) Kr

    2) Cn

    3) This was me being tricky. She is actually a French citizen with a French surname. She doesn't look particularly Eurasian in my eyes so possibly adopted. Vietnamese? Can't say with any degree of confidence.

    4) Jp

    5) Kr

    6) Kr

    7) Kr

    8) Cn

    9) Jp

    10) Jp

    11) Jp

    12) Kr

    13) Jp

    14) Jp

    15) Kr
  136. I saw Coolie High a few weeks ago on TV (hadn’t seen it in about 30 years). For those who dont know it was a 70s movie (1974 I think) about backs growing up in 1960s Chicago. It is actually a decent movie and – astonishingly – not anti-white at all. I dont mean only a few racist rants about whitey. I mean zero anti-white content. Even the few white cops in the movie were not evil or one-dimensional. I recall the blacks I knew in the Army in the late 80s all liked the movie. Could any black movie be made today that is not at least a little anti-white?

    • Replies: @Alden
    I loved that movie, so did my kids. It was a cute nice high school movie set in a black neighborhood.

    I loved the scene when the parents had to go out of town. Of course the daughter had a party. The Mom had nice furniture that she scrimped and saved for. And of course the kids knocked down her latest acquisition, a lovely China cabinet full pretty dishes.

    As I remember, there was no cursing. And they just went to school as Whites do. There were no heroic White teachers saving a kid from the ghetto life.

    I might get it for the jr high grandkids. They like those kind of movies.
    , @Anon
    It's one of my favorites too. The white-baiting is cheap(though funny, especially with the prostitute), but it's an authentic depiction of a time and place.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDX-F4WdJmI
  137. @DFH
    It's very embarassing for Asians if a very crass sort of materialism really is their fantasy.

    Asians love money and respect those who have money. They’re quite unabashed about it.

    As a culture shock, when I was watching Black Panther I was thinking, wtf kind of succession process is this, with successful challengers in mortal combat dethroning the old king. Why would you care if your king is the baddest warrior in the land.

  138. @clyde
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/crazy_rich_asians Crazy Rich Asians was the top movie last week. How did it get there? I suppose Chinese and other Asians are flocking to the movie theaters. We know black Americans are not interested. Can there be so many white Americans who find this to be "compelling" material for a movie? iow I don't get how this movie shot to the top.
    Anyway, thanks Steve for the review. This cured me from being interested.

    41% of “Crazy Rich Asians” movie-goers were white, 38% were Asian, 11% were Hispanic, 6% were African American, and 4% were classified as “other.”

    Asians normally make up only 6% of movie goers. Since it’s one of the few rom-coms out this summer, this movie became the girls-night-out chick flick for the Sex and the City crowd. So much for whites being racist.
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/strong-asian-american-turnout-helped-propel-crazy-rich-asians-to-no-1-2018-08-20

    For Black Panther, blacks made up 38% of all audience on opening weekend, whites 35%.

    • Replies: @Alden
    Traitors
    , @Anon
    What really stands out about CRA is not the all-Asian cast. Rather, the movie is strange by Hollywood standards because it's about yellow(or half-yellow) boy meets yellow girl.
    There have been many stories with yellow girls in Hollywood movies, but they were almost always with white men. SAYONARA may have started the trend. There was also COME SEE THE PARADISE, SNOW FALLING ON CEDARS(didn't see), HEAVEN AND EARTH, KARATE KID II, SOY LUCK CLUB, YEAR OF THE DRAGON, and many others.

    Generally, Asian women have been the love things of white men while Asian guys got cast as dork in SIXTEEN CANDLES and the dufus in FARGO. In any male dominated society, it is the desire of the men to conquer women of other races while keeping their own women to themselves. And America used to be a white-male-dominated society. So, while it was sort-of-okay to show white men with other women -- Asians, Squaw women, Tahitians, Mexican women, and even black women -- , it was not okay for white women to be with other men. So, 007 movies had this white guy humping women of all colors, but a white female counterpart didn't exist.

    Every society feels this way. Every empire was about 'we take their women, but they don't take our women'. And this rule held in the US until relatively recently. It held because of white/Jewish male domination of media and institutions. It also held because of white male prestige. White men were naturally seen as the strongest and manliest. They dominated sports and movies and etc.
    So, even without white male domination of institutions, white males felt little threat from most non-white males. Even with total freedom, white women generally preferred white men over Asian men, Hindu men, Mexican men, Arab men. and etc.
    But one exception was the Negro. White guys dominated sports in the past because of institutional discrimination against blacks. Also, when blacks came up with interesting music, the industry got some white guy to do the cross-0ver thing. And even in the age of Muhammad Ali, the most famous boxer on the screen was Rocky.

    But over time, blacks got full access to sports and pop culture. And they demolished white manhood in sports. They out-hollered whites in music. And internet led to white girls trading images of negro dongs on their iphones. So, it led to jungle fever, cucky-wuckery, and next 007 being a Negro. This was supposed to be a blow against 'racism' because black power gained at the expense of old white 'racism'. But it was a new kind of race-ism based on real racial differences. When institutional and social barriers are removed, biological barriers arise. NFL is technically open to all races, but most positions might as well say "Only Negro DNA allowed" and increasing number of white women might has well carry a sign, "I only go Negro" like Milo the homo.

    Now, if white guys have to take the backseat to Negroes who are the new idol of Western Manhood, then it means Asian, Hindu, Mexican, and etc guys have even less prestige as men. What is the typical image of a Meso-American? Guillermo. Hindu guys are always some computer nerd. And Asian guys are like the dufus in FARGO. It's worse for East Asian men than for Mexican men, Hindu men, and Arab men because East Asian having higher standards. As many are well-educated, they want quality women. In contrast, a Mexican guy will go with any senorita as long as she can make tacos. Also, as East Asian women are well-educated, they also want the best, and it's often white males. Notice all the famous Asian women in the US are almost always with white men(or even with black men like Ellen Pao). Also, East Asian women have higher desirability rating than Mexican women, Hindu women, and Arab women. So, they are sought out more by non-Asian men. Also, there is more of a cultural factor of sticking together among Hindus and Arab Muslims. In contrast, East Asians in the West tend to be more white-bread than white. They are anemic in their sense of tribalism or bloodlines. Their main identity is status, and that means they will go with anyone to raise their status.

    Amy Chua wrote about tribalism, but I wonder if that is the main factor in our globalized world. Isn't Primalism or Optimalism the primary forces? After all, if people are so tribal, why are so many non-whites willing to give up their nations, kinfolks, and culture to come to the West and start anew with new constructed identities? Why do most kids of these parents lose their language of origin? Why do they show no interest in their own tribal culture and only indulge in pop culture?
    Also, true tribalism has to be about unity of men and women of a race. But we see alarming rise of jungle fever among white women. And so many Asian women like Chua go with Jewish or white men. And intermarriage among Jews have skyrocketed. Also, Muslims join the US military and serve the War Machine to smash Muslim nations.

    It seems people are driven more by primalism. It is about reaching the optimal midpoint between the individual will to power and the submissive willingness to cower(before the true power). Imagine a pack of wolves where each wolf wants to be the leader. Each tries to optimize its status. So, they fight. But there can be only one winner, so others will have to seek a midpoint between the desire to reach as high as possible and the willingness to cower before the real alpha.
    It's like the scene in EXCALIBUR when Arthur fights with Lancelot. Lancelot is a warrior who will take on anyone. But Arthur draws power from the sword and beats him. And then, Lancelot is humble before Arthur and willing to serve him most loyally. He reached the midpoint between his will to rule and his willingness to serve. (Granted, Arthur won by cheating, and this becomes the basis of what goes wrong with Camelot in the end.) In the US, everyone wants to be the winner. Tony Montana or Gordon Gekko. But most people can't rise to the top. So, they reach as high as possible and then try to serve the uppermost power. Primalism is about optimizing one's individual talent as far as it will go, but when the limit is met, Will to Power gives into Willingness to Cower before the Real Power. And primalism affects the sexes differently, and this undermines tribalism. This may be most pronounced among East Asians where women have high sexual market value and men have low sexual market value.

    So, what is really distinctive about CRA is that the Asian girl goes with an Asian guy. While such is not taboo in Hollywood, it is rare because the general impression is that Asian men aren't exciting. And if Asian women really do have sexual value, they should be matched with men with sexual value, like whites or blacks. Why should Asian female winners go with Asian male losers?

    But then, notice that the guy in CRA has to be superduper rich to get the girl. So, what is the message? It actually conforms to the Hollywood stereotype. For Asian men, it's bucks or shucks.
    Unless you got serious bucks, Asian men might as well just give it up and be like the dufus in FARGO.
  139. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Americans used to have a term called “Oriental” for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.
     
    I recall when "Oriental" was a fine word, and then when it suddenly became unacceptable in reference to the different flavors of yellowish people with black hair. It simply means "East" m the sense of the rising sun in the East. I suppose the objection was that these people are only from the East if you're from the West, so it's Western-centric or something. My Grandmother was unable to catch up with the times and continued using it for the rest of her life but mostly with respect to various Chop Suey merchants and their delivery slaves.

    Asian seems weird to me, not the least because it's perhaps even less precise than Oriental.

    I still say “oriental” all the time. I get a dirty look once in a while but that’s it.

    • Replies: @anon
    It just makes you sound like a hillbilly.
  140. @syonredux

    For some reason “asians” came to be, or at least act, greatly offended by the term “oriental”,
     
    Same thing happened with "Negro" and is currently underway with "Gypsy." People just decide to start getting offended.....

    Eskimo and Inuit…

  141. @Alden
    Ha, dream on.

    Here’s something I heard about that first Star Wars sequel Phantom Menace that came out in 1999 ? I worked at UCLA at the time in south campus engineering and science mostly Chinese and not Americans Chinese nationals and very recent immigrants.

    There was a first ever showing midnight premier in a theater 2 blocks from campus. Some Chinese brought in tiny concealed cameras & audio and recorded the movie.

    As soon as the movie ended they ran out to the street and gave the cameras to Chinese waiting in cars.

    Then off to the nearby airport on the nearby freeway.

    Couriers waited in front of the international terminal. The cameras were handed off and went on the 5 am flight to China. The videos were on sale less than a day after the cameras arrived in China.

    That was the gossip among those Chinese national tech students and assistant professors.

    I don’t sympathize with the loss of revenue from movies.

    Normally I’d say arrest them all. But since this is liberalism run wild Jew run Hollywood that’s losing money, F ’em!

  142. A few other very attractive half-Asian actors they should include in the sequel (which is already in the works): Maggie Q, Chloe Bennet and Russell Wong.

  143. @Twinkie
    I’m obviously not going to watch this soap opera for the ladies. I’m waiting to see “Columbus” on Netflix or Blu-ray, not because of John Cho, but because I read that the cinematography of architecture is very good.

    https://youtu.be/r3dcnV6Z9Zs

    It really is a chick flick for teens and early 20s. It will do well in the Asian areas of California.

    • Replies: @Anon
    It really is a chick flick for teens and early 20s. It will do well in the Asian areas of California.

    What's a movie about trannies? Chick-Dick-Flick?
  144. @Lurker
    URM?

    Under-Represented Minority

    • Replies: @Lurker
    Thanks!
  145. Anon[371] • Disclaimer says:

    “So much for whites being racist.”

    Well, not quite. Movie critics – mostly white – are using the movie as a means to bash whites (“diversity” = no whites), so somebody here is racist. As I said previously, whites have no problem seeing movies with Asians in them. Hollywood might want to considering trading the obligatory black token for an Asian. They are way better liked and far less threatening – no racial tension when they are on screen. There is indeed an opportunity here. Hollywood could still pander to the diversity crowd without ruining their movies in the process. Don’t be surprised if this movie starts that trend.

    • Replies: @Alden
    There’s a dot Indian actor I see sometimes. He played the leading mans best friend in 27 Dresses and I see him on Netflix shows sometimes.
  146. I really recommend all the Turkish and Spanish shows on Netflix. Not Mexican or S American, Spanish.

    The creme de la creme is Gran Hotel the version with Yan Gonzales and Aiana Salmanacco Sumptuous setting and costumes. It’s a grand resort hotel full of incredible goings on.
    There are so many murderd that the state police send their best inspector. He also learned to do autopsies and brought along trunks of forensic equipment to deal with it all

    It’s really a series of murder mysteries rather than a Downton Abbey bore fest of some people cooking dinner and other people eating dinner.

    Another is Magnificent Century about a 1500s Turkish Sultan and Resurection set around 1300 in Central Asia among the different Seljuk Turk tribes in their way west

    Turkish and Spanish TV rocks
    and American TV sucks.

    Erdogan finances Turkish TV to make all these historical epics. They are great entertainment.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    I have to second the recommendation of Turkish shows. They really are entertaining with great production values. They are all soap operas with lots of attention to historical detail.

    There are a few Russian shows that aren't bad too.
  147. @anon

    41% of “Crazy Rich Asians” movie-goers were white, 38% were Asian, 11% were Hispanic, 6% were African American, and 4% were classified as “other."
     
    Asians normally make up only 6% of movie goers. Since it's one of the few rom-coms out this summer, this movie became the girls-night-out chick flick for the Sex and the City crowd. So much for whites being racist.
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/strong-asian-american-turnout-helped-propel-crazy-rich-asians-to-no-1-2018-08-20

    For Black Panther, blacks made up 38% of all audience on opening weekend, whites 35%.

    Traitors

  148. @Anonymous
    I still say “oriental” all the time. I get a dirty look once in a while but that’s it.

    It just makes you sound like a hillbilly.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    Um, no. It makes you sound like a normal person. Only the most deranged of SJW's have a problem with this obviously neutral term. No sane and decent person could think that "Oriental" is any way worse than "Chinese" or "German" or "tall" or "blue".
  149. @Bernie
    I saw Coolie High a few weeks ago on TV (hadn't seen it in about 30 years). For those who dont know it was a 70s movie (1974 I think) about backs growing up in 1960s Chicago. It is actually a decent movie and - astonishingly - not anti-white at all. I dont mean only a few racist rants about whitey. I mean zero anti-white content. Even the few white cops in the movie were not evil or one-dimensional. I recall the blacks I knew in the Army in the late 80s all liked the movie. Could any black movie be made today that is not at least a little anti-white?

    I loved that movie, so did my kids. It was a cute nice high school movie set in a black neighborhood.

    I loved the scene when the parents had to go out of town. Of course the daughter had a party. The Mom had nice furniture that she scrimped and saved for. And of course the kids knocked down her latest acquisition, a lovely China cabinet full pretty dishes.

    As I remember, there was no cursing. And they just went to school as Whites do. There were no heroic White teachers saving a kid from the ghetto life.

    I might get it for the jr high grandkids. They like those kind of movies.

  150. @syonredux

    Also, Henry Golding looks totally Asian.
     
    Dunno. I remember watching the ads and noting that he looked Eurasian:

    https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2017/03/28/28-henry-golding.w1200.h630.jpg

    He kinda looks like the actor Dean Cain who was Superman in that Lois & Clark tv show several years back. I seem to recall that Dean Cain was Jewasian which since Jews are Asians means that Dean Cain’s just regular old Asian.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    He kinda looks like the actor Dean Cain who was Superman in that Lois & Clark tv show several years back. I seem to recall that Dean Cain was Jewasian which since Jews are Asians means that Dean Cain’s just regular old Asian.
     
    To the best of my knowledge, Dean Cain does not have any Jewish ancestry:

    Birth Name: Dean George Tanaka

    Place of Birth: Mount Clemens, Michigan, U.S.

    Date of Birth: July 31, 1966

    Ethnicity:
    *37.5% Japanese
    *62.5% European [English, French-Canadian, Irish, Welsh]
     
    http://ethnicelebs.com/dean-cain
  151. @attilathehen
    Gemma Chan does not look like a "Melania Asian." You can not tell she is 1/4 white. She looks totally Asian. Saying Chan looks whitish is like saying Rashida Jones can play Italians. I've seen more Mexicans who look Italian.

    Also, Henry Golding looks totally Asian. His mother is white, but the Asian genes were dominant. His wife Liv Lo is 1/2 Italian and 1/2 Chinese. There's nothing Italian about her either.

    If Derbyshire is reading these comments, he better get over his incredibly degenerate fantasy of a white - Northeast Asian alliance.

    Henry Golding, Gemma Chan confirm what I've said before: hapas will almost always stay Asians.

    .

  152. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t know. In the end these Hollywood made movies starring minorities always end up making the minorities look worse by portraying their stereotypes, e.g.:

    Black Panther: emphasizes how violent blacks are.

    Crazy Rich Asians: emphasizes how materialistic and wealth-worshipping East Asians are.

    Slumdog Millionaire: emphasizes how dirt poor and criminal-minded Indians are.

  153. @Pittsburgh Thatcherite
    Upon independence in 1965, Singapore was unstable, poor, and 40% illiterate.

    Today, Singapore is vastly improved:

    * High incomes.
    * Low taxes - $10,500 income tax on $120,000 income.
    * Acceptable cost of housing for citizens - $215,000 for 700 square-foot apartment in government-subsidized housing. 80% of citizens live in public housing.
    * No crime.
    * Quality health care for everyone.
    * 11 universities, 2 internationally-ranked.
    * Powerful military, no wars.
    * Many immigrants are wealthy or professional.
    * No corruption.
    * AAA credit rating.

    Singapore is a tiny nation of 278 square miles, with a hard-working, intelligent population of 5½ million people and a very effective government.

    Can we hire them to run Chicago?

  154. @Anon
    "So much for whites being racist."

    Well, not quite. Movie critics - mostly white - are using the movie as a means to bash whites ("diversity" = no whites), so somebody here is racist. As I said previously, whites have no problem seeing movies with Asians in them. Hollywood might want to considering trading the obligatory black token for an Asian. They are way better liked and far less threatening - no racial tension when they are on screen. There is indeed an opportunity here. Hollywood could still pander to the diversity crowd without ruining their movies in the process. Don't be surprised if this movie starts that trend.

    There’s a dot Indian actor I see sometimes. He played the leading mans best friend in 27 Dresses and I see him on Netflix shows sometimes.

  155. https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1032376741006794752

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    Is Jarvis McGrath an alter ego of Titania Dupont?
  156. @Q
    Nobody's stopping the Indians from making their own version: Crazy Poor Indians.

    I thought that was the entire ouvre of Bollywood. well, the crazy part anyway.

  157. @syonredux

    Also, Henry Golding looks totally Asian.
     
    Dunno. I remember watching the ads and noting that he looked Eurasian:

    https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2017/03/28/28-henry-golding.w1200.h630.jpg

    He’s the star of the movie “Crazy Rich Asians,” not “Crazy Rich Caucasians.” He is not Eurasian either. He is Asian

    • Replies: @syonredux

    He’s the star of the movie “Crazy Rich Asians,” not “Crazy Rich Caucasians.” He is not Eurasian either. He is Asian
     
    Dunno:

    Birth Name: Henry Ewan Golding

    Place of Birth: Sarawak, Malaysia

    Date of Birth: 5 February, 1987

    Ethnicity:
    *English (father)
    *Iban Malaysian (mother)
     
    http://ethnicelebs.com/henry-golding
  158. @Alden
    It really is a chick flick for teens and early 20s. It will do well in the Asian areas of California.

    It really is a chick flick for teens and early 20s. It will do well in the Asian areas of California.

    What’s a movie about trannies? Chick-Dick-Flick?

  159. @Alden
    Ha, dream on.

    Here’s something I heard about that first Star Wars sequel Phantom Menace that came out in 1999 ? I worked at UCLA at the time in south campus engineering and science mostly Chinese and not Americans Chinese nationals and very recent immigrants.

    There was a first ever showing midnight premier in a theater 2 blocks from campus. Some Chinese brought in tiny concealed cameras & audio and recorded the movie.

    As soon as the movie ended they ran out to the street and gave the cameras to Chinese waiting in cars.

    Then off to the nearby airport on the nearby freeway.

    Couriers waited in front of the international terminal. The cameras were handed off and went on the 5 am flight to China. The videos were on sale less than a day after the cameras arrived in China.

    That was the gossip among those Chinese national tech students and assistant professors.

    I don’t sympathize with the loss of revenue from movies.

    There was a big Arnold film that came out mid-90’s that was a huge blockbuster (I know, he had a lot). The same day it was released in the US my sister saw it for sale on the streets in Vietnam, where she was traveling. That was where she saw CA drivers licenses for sale too.

  160. @Bucky
    Why do Chinese movies and Japanese movies suck?

    Because they don’t have any Jews.

    If Jews had been in China, China would rule the world.

    edit: duplicated. Delete.

  161. @Bucky
    Why do Chinese movies and Japanese movies suck?

    Because they don’t have any Jews.

    If Jews had been in China, China would rule the world.

    If Jews had been in China, China would rule the world.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaifeng_Jews

    Also
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_settlement_in_the_Japanese_Empire

    During 1920s/1930s, Japan had a plan to recruit Jews to Manchuria and Japanese lease territory in Shanghai. Phoebe (Katz) Cates’s mother was born in Shanghai in those years, and she was one of the more famous quarter Asian-American actress in Hollywood.

  162. @clyde
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/crazy_rich_asians Crazy Rich Asians was the top movie last week. How did it get there? I suppose Chinese and other Asians are flocking to the movie theaters. We know black Americans are not interested. Can there be so many white Americans who find this to be "compelling" material for a movie? iow I don't get how this movie shot to the top.
    Anyway, thanks Steve for the review. This cured me from being interested.

    I read the book. If you like rom coms with glorious settings and gorgeous women’s clothes and a lot of flash and dash you’ll like it. Most people like those kind of fun escapist entertainment movies.

    Unless you want to watch an Ibsen or Brecht adaption and wallow in misery and angst. Maybe Tennessee Williams or Faulkner movies? Picnic, Long Hot Summer? To Kill a Mockingbird?

  163. I haven’t (and won’t) see this film, but your review sounds suspiciously like what I would’ve assumed this movie would be like.

    However, I think you may have otherwise missed the whole point of this film.

    You’re not supposed to watch it because it’s good, or any such heteronormative, privileged imperialist claptrap.

    You’re supposed to watch it because it’s woke.

    The fact it sucks is a feature, not a bug. It keeps the deplorables away. Plus, people with actual taste & standards might ask troubling questions. It’s best if they stay home.

    • Replies: @Anon
    You’re supposed to watch it because it’s woke.

    Maybe it just wok.
  164. Stupid Rich Frenchmen.

    But ‘muh world cup’.

  165. OT I just learned that the black writer N.K. Jemisin has won three Hugo Awards for best (SF) novel, in a row, for each of the books in a trilogy. I am very out of touch with contemporary SF – certainly compared to when I was a teenager – but the Hugo is awarded by the popular vote at a major fan convention (as opposed to e.g. the Nebula, which is voted on by writers themselves), and I know that in recent years there was a “Puppies” movement organized by people like Vox Day, against a “progressive” tendency to favor “diverse” authors, or some such thing.

    The point about Jemisin’s triple win is that (at the Hugos) there has never been anything like, every book in a series winning Best Novel for its year. Either her trilogy must be one of the very best works of SF ever, or there must be a real scarcity of good writing right now. But in the same period, she only got one of the Nebulas for best novel, and the fact that her books came out one per year, so her triple win could occur in successive years, seems artificially neat.

    So this certainly sounds like another case (like Obama, like Beyonce?) where the enthusiasm for black talent has to do with the blackness as well as the talent.

    • Replies: @Escher
    Have been out of touch with SF for a long time.... wonder how her works compare to the Foundation trilogy, for example.
  166. @DFH
    It's very embarassing for Asians if a very crass sort of materialism really is their fantasy.

    Why should it be embarrassing?

  167. @anon

    Crazy Poor Indians.
     
    They've already made such a movie. It's called Slumdog Millionaire.

    Bingo! Beat me to it.

  168. @Panopticon
    https://imgur.com/a/5Hfcc

    So which ones are Chinese, Japanese, and Korean?

    Results are as follows. The MORE tag doesn’t seem to show in the previews, but if it displays properly then fine, if not, no peaking!

    [MORE]

    1) Kr

    2) Cn

    3) This was me being tricky. She is actually a French citizen with a French surname. She doesn’t look particularly Eurasian in my eyes so possibly adopted. Vietnamese? Can’t say with any degree of confidence.

    4) Jp

    5) Kr

    6) Kr

    7) Kr

    8) Cn

    9) Jp

    10) Jp

    11) Jp

    12) Kr

    13) Jp

    14) Jp

    15) Kr

  169. @Mr. Anon
    I saw the movie, as my wife had read the novel and wanted to see it. I seem to recall her laughing out loud at the novel, but the movie had, at most a couple of mildly amusing scenes, mostly due to Ken Jeong. It struck me as a very formulaic chick flick in the Cinderella vein.

    Usually, in white incarnations of this cliche, the stick-up-the-rear rich white WASPS (and they are always are WASPS) are invariably shown as being callous, insufferable pricks. Here, being POCs engaged in flagrant acts of conspicious consumption, they are portrayed as having (ultimately) noble and complicated motivations.

    engaged in flagrant acts of conspicious consumption, they are portrayed as having (ultimately) noble and complicated motivations.

    Of course. So long as it’s not whitey, it’s noble. The Current Year.

  170. @Anonymous
    Steve, I think Crazy Rich Asians is Western propaganda aimed at the East Asian community, both in America and in Asia.

    The most striking thing about the movie for me was the prominence of Christianity. The Youngs are reading Bibles in English. The marriage is in a European-style cathedral. Where were the Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism? Didn't people get married in Asia before Euro Christians showed up? Singapore itself only has a minority of Christians.

    The aspirational youth of Asia will see these people buying European luxury products like Armani, Dolce and Gabbana and what not. Where are the goods produced by 5000 years of Chinese culture? It's not like they're incapable of producing it, it isn't that hard to make a handbag or dress. It's just the "cool" factor. And coolness is created by movies, books and television.

    English-speaking, Yellow on the outside White on the inside Asians were the only strong characters in the movie. And the characters had names that one associates with old money English aristocrats - Eleanor, Astrid, Alistair, Felicity, Araminta, The natives were basically portrayed as rustic bumpkins (perhaps accurately).

    Even at the deeper, philosophical level - the Chinese-minded Eleanor Young is forced to accept the Americanized Rachel as the right match for her son. Heck, her son was pretty much ready to ditch his mother, his home culture and his inheritance to live it up with CareerGrrl in NYC. It's a subtle put down of anything that opposes the standard liberal American mindset.

    I think Black Panther (which I didn't have the stomach to watch) was possibly more accepting of the native culture. Crazy Rich Asians is just a movie that tells Asians that White is Right.

    The most striking thing about the movie for me was the prominence of Christianity. The Youngs are reading Bibles in English. The marriage is in a European-style cathedral. Where were the Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism? Didn’t people get married in Asia before Euro Christians showed up? Singapore itself only has a minority of Christians.

    Religions have a tendency to travel as part of cultural packages. Christianity came with the “civilizing” process to the ancient Germans and Slavs from Rome and Byzantium, and Buddhism and Chinese writing/culture came together to Japan to help their civilization take off. Also compare the syncretism of the Macedonian Empire(s), e.g. Bactria, and the Roman Empire.

    So with Americanization goes Christianization. I think prestige has a lot to do with it, but it’s also worth considering if the Christian ethos is just intrinsically bougie. The first significant Christian communities were mostly middle class jews in Asia Minor and the Levant (the swarming mob phase came after Constantine); blessed are the meek, turn the other cheek, it’s good to be a sheep, the Protestant Work Ethic and all the rest. So if you inhale McWorld globalism, American right-wing or quasi-right-wing evangelical Christianity is part of the deal– it’s just right.

    But sometimes a reaction happens, like the Tokugawa shogunate. I think it probable we’ll see a major religious conflict in China if Christianity keeps making inroads.

  171. @Logan
    I recently watched Red Cliff, the Chinese war epic.

    With the exception of a few characters with distinctive features, I had one hell of a time telling them apart.

    But I strongly suspect this is not because "they all look alike," it's because we're not used to picking up on the subtle differences in Asian faces that we easily pick out in types we're more familiar with. I've seen studied demonstrating that to East Asians, us white types all look pretty much alike too.

    It's simply a case of what we're used to.

    From what I’ve read, Asians think all Whites look the same. IIRC there’s some research on it out there, somewhere, that supports the idea that our ability to discern individuals of a particular race develops at a certain time ( in childhood?). So to a White person raised in East Asia by Asians all Whites would look the same and visa versa. I knew a Korean adopted by Whites and raised in an all-White town but I never asked her.

    • Replies: @Anon
    In movies, it has to do with personality more than looks.

    In many 'epic' movies, most characters have no personality. LOTR was one big blur to me. Lots of hair, beards, and sweat. Hardly any personality. In contrast, 13th WARRIOR has far fewer characters, but I distinctly remember every single one of them.

    Also, you're bound to notice individuals more in a mono-racial movie. In a Kurosawa movie, the issue of Japanese-ness or Asian-ness never comes up because everyone is Japanese. So, you focus on the characters and personalities.
    But in a movie like BRIDGE ON RIVER KWAI, lots of characters are either British blokes or Japanese guards. So, they fall into broad types.

    However, because Asian personalities tend to be more stoic and withdrawn, they tend to show up less even in Asian movies, especially when the director tells them not to act in the conventional sense.
  172. Anonymous[457] • Disclaimer says:

    Logically, I’m worse off financially today in 2018 due to the real-life predation and wasteful spending of the GoodFellas guys in America than anything the fictional builders in Crazy Rich Asians are up to today on the other side of the world. But it doesn’t feel like that to me.

    A Corvette does take a certain sort of man to be able to pull off

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgTM8uEMbg0&t=0m37s

  173. @Q
    Nobody's stopping the Indians from making their own version: Crazy Poor Indians.

    You’re not likely to see “Crazy Poor Blacks” any time soon either. Case in point:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiewire.com/2015/06/jimmie-walker-youll-never-see-a-poor-black-family-on-tv-again-153788/amp/

    He’s got a point. All of the “black” shows I see commercials for are about some black family that owns a fashion empire or a rap music empire or something like that. The Huxtables seem quaint by comparison.

    • Replies: @Anon
    There was SANFORD AND SON but that was long ago.

    I didn't see MOONLIGHT but isn't that about poor blacks?
    And PRECIOUS. Didn't see that either, but isn't that about a fat poor black girl who ate everything?

    BARBERSHOP and FRIDAY were hits not long ago.
  174. @Bernie
    And China would have open immigration and millions of whites (and other races) living there and complaining that there are too many privileged Chinese in China.

    Well that is the price of leadership, I’m afraid. The price of empire. You get vast bounties of material goods but you do lose something spiritually.

    There must always be a hegemon and king.

  175. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    41% of “Crazy Rich Asians” movie-goers were white, 38% were Asian, 11% were Hispanic, 6% were African American, and 4% were classified as “other."
     
    Asians normally make up only 6% of movie goers. Since it's one of the few rom-coms out this summer, this movie became the girls-night-out chick flick for the Sex and the City crowd. So much for whites being racist.
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/strong-asian-american-turnout-helped-propel-crazy-rich-asians-to-no-1-2018-08-20

    For Black Panther, blacks made up 38% of all audience on opening weekend, whites 35%.

    What really stands out about CRA is not the all-Asian cast. Rather, the movie is strange by Hollywood standards because it’s about yellow(or half-yellow) boy meets yellow girl.
    There have been many stories with yellow girls in Hollywood movies, but they were almost always with white men. SAYONARA may have started the trend. There was also COME SEE THE PARADISE, SNOW FALLING ON CEDARS(didn’t see), HEAVEN AND EARTH, KARATE KID II, SOY LUCK CLUB, YEAR OF THE DRAGON, and many others.

    Generally, Asian women have been the love things of white men while Asian guys got cast as dork in SIXTEEN CANDLES and the dufus in FARGO. In any male dominated society, it is the desire of the men to conquer women of other races while keeping their own women to themselves. And America used to be a white-male-dominated society. So, while it was sort-of-okay to show white men with other women — Asians, Squaw women, Tahitians, Mexican women, and even black women — , it was not okay for white women to be with other men. So, 007 movies had this white guy humping women of all colors, but a white female counterpart didn’t exist.

    Every society feels this way. Every empire was about ‘we take their women, but they don’t take our women’. And this rule held in the US until relatively recently. It held because of white/Jewish male domination of media and institutions. It also held because of white male prestige. White men were naturally seen as the strongest and manliest. They dominated sports and movies and etc.
    So, even without white male domination of institutions, white males felt little threat from most non-white males. Even with total freedom, white women generally preferred white men over Asian men, Hindu men, Mexican men, Arab men. and etc.
    But one exception was the Negro. White guys dominated sports in the past because of institutional discrimination against blacks. Also, when blacks came up with interesting music, the industry got some white guy to do the cross-0ver thing. And even in the age of Muhammad Ali, the most famous boxer on the screen was Rocky.

    But over time, blacks got full access to sports and pop culture. And they demolished white manhood in sports. They out-hollered whites in music. And internet led to white girls trading images of negro dongs on their iphones. So, it led to jungle fever, cucky-wuckery, and next 007 being a Negro. This was supposed to be a blow against ‘racism’ because black power gained at the expense of old white ‘racism’. But it was a new kind of race-ism based on real racial differences. When institutional and social barriers are removed, biological barriers arise. NFL is technically open to all races, but most positions might as well say “Only Negro DNA allowed” and increasing number of white women might has well carry a sign, “I only go Negro” like Milo the homo.

    Now, if white guys have to take the backseat to Negroes who are the new idol of Western Manhood, then it means Asian, Hindu, Mexican, and etc guys have even less prestige as men. What is the typical image of a Meso-American? Guillermo. Hindu guys are always some computer nerd. And Asian guys are like the dufus in FARGO. It’s worse for East Asian men than for Mexican men, Hindu men, and Arab men because East Asian having higher standards. As many are well-educated, they want quality women. In contrast, a Mexican guy will go with any senorita as long as she can make tacos. Also, as East Asian women are well-educated, they also want the best, and it’s often white males. Notice all the famous Asian women in the US are almost always with white men(or even with black men like Ellen Pao). Also, East Asian women have higher desirability rating than Mexican women, Hindu women, and Arab women. So, they are sought out more by non-Asian men. Also, there is more of a cultural factor of sticking together among Hindus and Arab Muslims. In contrast, East Asians in the West tend to be more white-bread than white. They are anemic in their sense of tribalism or bloodlines. Their main identity is status, and that means they will go with anyone to raise their status.

    Amy Chua wrote about tribalism, but I wonder if that is the main factor in our globalized world. Isn’t Primalism or Optimalism the primary forces? After all, if people are so tribal, why are so many non-whites willing to give up their nations, kinfolks, and culture to come to the West and start anew with new constructed identities? Why do most kids of these parents lose their language of origin? Why do they show no interest in their own tribal culture and only indulge in pop culture?
    Also, true tribalism has to be about unity of men and women of a race. But we see alarming rise of jungle fever among white women. And so many Asian women like Chua go with Jewish or white men. And intermarriage among Jews have skyrocketed. Also, Muslims join the US military and serve the War Machine to smash Muslim nations.

    It seems people are driven more by primalism. It is about reaching the optimal midpoint between the individual will to power and the submissive willingness to cower(before the true power). Imagine a pack of wolves where each wolf wants to be the leader. Each tries to optimize its status. So, they fight. But there can be only one winner, so others will have to seek a midpoint between the desire to reach as high as possible and the willingness to cower before the real alpha.
    It’s like the scene in EXCALIBUR when Arthur fights with Lancelot. Lancelot is a warrior who will take on anyone. But Arthur draws power from the sword and beats him. And then, Lancelot is humble before Arthur and willing to serve him most loyally. He reached the midpoint between his will to rule and his willingness to serve. (Granted, Arthur won by cheating, and this becomes the basis of what goes wrong with Camelot in the end.) In the US, everyone wants to be the winner. Tony Montana or Gordon Gekko. But most people can’t rise to the top. So, they reach as high as possible and then try to serve the uppermost power. Primalism is about optimizing one’s individual talent as far as it will go, but when the limit is met, Will to Power gives into Willingness to Cower before the Real Power. And primalism affects the sexes differently, and this undermines tribalism. This may be most pronounced among East Asians where women have high sexual market value and men have low sexual market value.

    So, what is really distinctive about CRA is that the Asian girl goes with an Asian guy. While such is not taboo in Hollywood, it is rare because the general impression is that Asian men aren’t exciting. And if Asian women really do have sexual value, they should be matched with men with sexual value, like whites or blacks. Why should Asian female winners go with Asian male losers?

    But then, notice that the guy in CRA has to be superduper rich to get the girl. So, what is the message? It actually conforms to the Hollywood stereotype. For Asian men, it’s bucks or shucks.
    Unless you got serious bucks, Asian men might as well just give it up and be like the dufus in FARGO.

    • Replies: @Bucky

    Also, there is more of a cultural factor of sticking together among Hindus and Arab Muslims. In contrast, East Asians in the West tend to be more white-bread than white. They are anemic in their sense of tribalism or bloodlines. Their main identity is status, and that means they will go with anyone to raise their status.
     
    Brilliant
    , @britishbrainsize1325cchehe
    HA haHA your a moron are you even living in the real world , because of kpop and kdramas asians are very popular amognst young women teens to mid age women at the moment dont know in future, I have had many oppurtunities with women especially whites but being asian we never approach women this is why you dont see many asian men and other race pairings, on the other hand white men are becoming incels and atrthritic so you guys are gonna die alone , look around you why are asian kids so happy nowadays they have been getting the eye from a lot of women so this makes the young guys happy , so your story about asian men not being liked is disillusioned
  176. @Fred Boynton
    He kinda looks like the actor Dean Cain who was Superman in that Lois & Clark tv show several years back. I seem to recall that Dean Cain was Jewasian which since Jews are Asians means that Dean Cain's just regular old Asian.

    He kinda looks like the actor Dean Cain who was Superman in that Lois & Clark tv show several years back. I seem to recall that Dean Cain was Jewasian which since Jews are Asians means that Dean Cain’s just regular old Asian.

    To the best of my knowledge, Dean Cain does not have any Jewish ancestry:

    Birth Name: Dean George Tanaka

    Place of Birth: Mount Clemens, Michigan, U.S.

    Date of Birth: July 31, 1966

    Ethnicity:
    *37.5% Japanese
    *62.5% European [English, French-Canadian, Irish, Welsh]

    http://ethnicelebs.com/dean-cain

    • Replies: @Fred Boynton
    Correction noted; I guess Cain is Eurasian as well.
  177. @attilathehen
    He's the star of the movie "Crazy Rich Asians," not "Crazy Rich Caucasians." He is not Eurasian either. He is Asian

    He’s the star of the movie “Crazy Rich Asians,” not “Crazy Rich Caucasians.” He is not Eurasian either. He is Asian

    Dunno:

    Birth Name: Henry Ewan Golding

    Place of Birth: Sarawak, Malaysia

    Date of Birth: 5 February, 1987

    Ethnicity:
    *English (father)
    *Iban Malaysian (mother)

    http://ethnicelebs.com/henry-golding

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    I know his background. He would identify as Asian. Accept this fact. He is a male Gemma Chan. Or maybe there are Asians in your life?
    , @britishbrainsize1325cchehe
    his mother is most likely a low class naive woman of the night because this is the only kinda of women the skin cancer prone britshit that cant even put a sentence together can acquire .
  178. @Anonym
    It would be cool if imdb broke out ratings by race, and you could search the top 250 lists. The Fast and The Furious probably gets an 8.7 in Hispanic imdb, it's like their version of The Godfather.

    Justin Lin, an Asian-American director, revived Fast and Furious in the middle of its run.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    Mr. Lin saved the entire Fast and Furious franchise with this scene:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jIvVXSCeYI

    And even 12 years later, Don Omar's Bandoleros is a far better Latin cut than the sleazy Despacito
  179. @syonredux

    He’s the star of the movie “Crazy Rich Asians,” not “Crazy Rich Caucasians.” He is not Eurasian either. He is Asian
     
    Dunno:

    Birth Name: Henry Ewan Golding

    Place of Birth: Sarawak, Malaysia

    Date of Birth: 5 February, 1987

    Ethnicity:
    *English (father)
    *Iban Malaysian (mother)
     
    http://ethnicelebs.com/henry-golding

    I know his background. He would identify as Asian. Accept this fact. He is a male Gemma Chan. Or maybe there are Asians in your life?

    • Replies: @syonredux

    I know his background. He would identify as Asian.
     
    He strongly identifies with his Asian ancestry:

    People were like, ‘This guy’s half-Asian, he’s half-white, he’s not even full Asian,’ and it comes to, like, how Asian do you have to be to be considered Asian?… I’ve lived 16, 17 years of my life in Asia, and that’s most of my life. I was born in Asia, I’ve lived cultures that are synonymous with Asian culture, but it’s still not Asian enough for some people. Where are the boundaries? Where are the lines drawn for saying that you cannot play this character because you’re not fully Asian?
     
    http://ethnicelebs.com/henry-golding

    Accept this fact.
     
    I always try to accept facts....and the fact is that Mr Golding is a mixture of European and Asian. That fact seems to bother Mr Golding, but facts are stubborn things...

    He is a male Gemma Chan.
     
    He wishes. Gemma Chan is completely East Asian in terms of ancestry:

    Place of Birth: Southwark, London, England, U.K.

    Date of Birth: 29 November, 1982

    Ethnicity: Chinese

    Gemma Chan is a British film, television, and theatre actress, and fashion model. She has starred in the films Transformers: The Last Knight and Crazy Rich Asians, among others.

     

    http://ethnicelebs.com/gemma-chan

    Or maybe there are Asians in your life?
     
    Currently? No. Girlfriend for the last couple of years is English-French in terms of ancestry.In the past, though, I have dated some East Asian and Hapa girls. And my first serious girlfriend in High School was half-Czech, half South-Asian.
  180. @Alden
    I really recommend all the Turkish and Spanish shows on Netflix. Not Mexican or S American, Spanish.

    The creme de la creme is Gran Hotel the version with Yan Gonzales and Aiana Salmanacco Sumptuous setting and costumes. It’s a grand resort hotel full of incredible goings on.
    There are so many murderd that the state police send their best inspector. He also learned to do autopsies and brought along trunks of forensic equipment to deal with it all

    It’s really a series of murder mysteries rather than a Downton Abbey bore fest of some people cooking dinner and other people eating dinner.

    Another is Magnificent Century about a 1500s Turkish Sultan and Resurection set around 1300 in Central Asia among the different Seljuk Turk tribes in their way west

    Turkish and Spanish TV rocks
    and American TV sucks.

    Erdogan finances Turkish TV to make all these historical epics. They are great entertainment.

    I have to second the recommendation of Turkish shows. They really are entertaining with great production values. They are all soap operas with lots of attention to historical detail.

    There are a few Russian shows that aren’t bad too.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    When I was in Turkey in 2009, the TV commercials were about 99% as spectacular as American TV commercials. Very impressive.

    Kind of like how some of the Mexican 3 Amigos film directors learned their craft making TV commercials in Mexico.

  181. @Asian American
    You were very astute in linking Crazy Rich Asians with Black Panther, but they're identical for a deeper reason other than both just having a mono racial cast. Although you take a swipe at Black Panther because Wakanda is not real, in a very real sense for Asian Americans, the life in Crazy Rich Asians is not real and is a life they yearn for, which is why the books and movie sold so well.

    The underlying tension in the book, which you probably didn't pick up as a non-Asian is that Asian Americans objectively know that living standards are better in the West than in China/Japan/SK, etc., and that the West is richer than Asia and that they're below Westerners on the status totem pole. which is aggravating to any individual or people.

    Blacks dreamed of a society they could be proud of in Wakanda, where the sister is a genius scientist and they have technology and smarts beyond the West. I guess everybody yearns for what they don't have. Asians dream of a society where they are rich, cool, fashion icons, most eligible bachelors/bachelorettes, socialites, dealmakers, etc. It doesn't hurt that the main readership is young Asian girls who lap this stuff up, and wish for a more glamorous life than the typical stable middle-class life of most Asian American families. It just so happens that the author is Singaporean and Singapore is the perfect context for these aspirations. It's a rich city with a per capita income higher than the West, sophisticated, clean, nominally democratic, beautiful, and they speak English so most of the bananas can digest the media. Its a shining example which Asians can crow about. It's also half way around the world in a tropical area where most people have a hole of knowledge of that area in the world, so it has something mystical about it. Most people from the West haven't been there, Asian Americans included, it might as well be a fantasy land like Wakanda.

    The underlying message of the book is that Asian Americans are lower class, let me present to you the real upper class Asians. I haven't watched the movie yet, probably should have said that sooner, only read the book, so this might not come out in the movie as much. As examples from my memory, a few digs they make: There's a line how Asians who are too stupid to make it in China leave for the West. There's the dig against Rachel by her grandmother-in-law who is not impressed by her Harvard or some such school's credentials and wants an upper-class Singaporean Chinese girl for her grandson. There's a bite at how unrefined Asian-Americans are who are assimilated into in Western culture: "over familiar and irrationally confident". Etc.

    This is mostly the reverse of reality. Most Asian American immigration has been of the upper middle class so per capita Asian Americans are more impressive here than if you take a random Chinese person in China. But that's depressing to Asian Americans. We're sending some of our best, and they're doing well in America, but its not like they're at the top of the hierarchy.

    So Asian Americans imagine this world in Crazy Rich Asians where Asians are at the top of the hierarchy basically. These upper class Chinese Singaporeans are so rich they can clown on Westerners, like that hotel scene, don't have to pander to Western tastes, lots of detail in the book about Asian customs and traditions but with maxed out consumption.

    “These upper class Chinese Singaporeans are so rich they can clown on Westerners, like that hotel scene, don’t have to pander to Western tastes”

    I don;t know, their cities look like any western city. They could have created their own native style but it looks like a clone of NY. Paris does not look like a clone of NY, they limit skyscrapers.

    The women dress in western fashion. The hotels are copies of British hotels, I’ll bet they listen to American music or even more western Beethoven’s 9th, their kids play violin not Asian instruments, what movies do they watch, do their rich young men drive ferrari’s? All western.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    In the movie, the main characters eventually go to a mah jhong parlor for some authentic Asian culture, and they eat lots of Chinese food, but that's about it.

    All the pop music on the soundtrack is basically American in style going back to one jazz number (Cab Calloway?). The opening theme song is "Money" by Berry Gordy. In the earliest trailer it sounds like they used the Flying Lizards classic version of "Money" but in the movie they had some Asian pop star re-record it.

    , @Asian American
    Right. Asian Americans love the idea of Singapore because its rich, not like those backwards cousins from rural China. It's westernized, so it doesn't make accultured Asian Americans too uncomfortable. And they're one of them, ethnically Chinese.

    But if you're going to try to one-up someone, you need to beat them at their own game. If you're playing your own separate games you can't really make comparisons can you? So Asian Americans love the conspicuous consumption of western products in Crazy Rich Asians. The message is we can buy these and you can't.

    In the end it panders to the same instinct as Black Panther.
  182. Henry Golding is also in a new movie coming out in September called A Simple Favor, where he stars opposite the very hot Blake Lively as her husband.

    attilathehen must be foaming at the mouth.

  183. @scrivener3
    "These upper class Chinese Singaporeans are so rich they can clown on Westerners, like that hotel scene, don’t have to pander to Western tastes"

    I don;t know, their cities look like any western city. They could have created their own native style but it looks like a clone of NY. Paris does not look like a clone of NY, they limit skyscrapers.

    The women dress in western fashion. The hotels are copies of British hotels, I'll bet they listen to American music or even more western Beethoven's 9th, their kids play violin not Asian instruments, what movies do they watch, do their rich young men drive ferrari's? All western.

    In the movie, the main characters eventually go to a mah jhong parlor for some authentic Asian culture, and they eat lots of Chinese food, but that’s about it.

    All the pop music on the soundtrack is basically American in style going back to one jazz number (Cab Calloway?). The opening theme song is “Money” by Berry Gordy. In the earliest trailer it sounds like they used the Flying Lizards classic version of “Money” but in the movie they had some Asian pop star re-record it.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    S'poreans are shamelessly Westernized.
  184. @syonredux

    He kinda looks like the actor Dean Cain who was Superman in that Lois & Clark tv show several years back. I seem to recall that Dean Cain was Jewasian which since Jews are Asians means that Dean Cain’s just regular old Asian.
     
    To the best of my knowledge, Dean Cain does not have any Jewish ancestry:

    Birth Name: Dean George Tanaka

    Place of Birth: Mount Clemens, Michigan, U.S.

    Date of Birth: July 31, 1966

    Ethnicity:
    *37.5% Japanese
    *62.5% European [English, French-Canadian, Irish, Welsh]
     
    http://ethnicelebs.com/dean-cain

    Correction noted; I guess Cain is Eurasian as well.

  185. Where to begin. First, a little about me – 57Yo white guy who ran in the same stomping grounds as yourself. Now married to a Japanese gal (which I state as a measure of credibility). I rarely disagree with your take on things, but I got a good chuckle here.

    But at the high end of society, to judge from this movie, wealthy Chinese prefer to socialize only with other wealthy Chinese. Why the movie is not entitled Crazy Rich Chinese is never explained. The only South Asians in Crazy Rich Asians’ version of Singapore are a few Sikh armed security guards who frighten the smooth-skinned Chinese with their barbaric beards.”

    *All* Asians prefer to socialize among themselves. They are completely racist against non-Asians and then within the various subgroups as well. Fancy vs. jungle, its absolutely the me-and-my-brother me-and-my-clan thing. Try calling a Japanese in Japan “Asian” and see how well it goes over. And they really don’t much understand why we westerners think anything wrong with it.

    but receptions with 2,000 invited family and friends seemed a little much even by Reagan-era Bel-Air standards.

    Even poor Chinese will have massive numbers of guests at their wedding. Ask any photographer who’s spent three hours taking pictures after the ceremony, with every possible permutation of family sub-groups needing their own pic.

    East Asians, at least those who aren’t mixed race, tend to look alike.

    Funny, Asians say exactly the same thing about white folks…

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    *All* Asians prefer to socialize among themselves. They are completely racist against non-Asians and then within the various subgroups as well.
     
    I don't know. A cousin of mine married the daughter of a Chinese bureaucrat. At the wedding reception the bureaucrat and his wife seemed to venerate my two-year-old son as something approaching a god.
    , @Erik Sieven
    "Even poor Chinese will have massive numbers of guests at their wedding. Ask any photographer who’s spent three hours taking pictures after the ceremony, with every possible permutation of family sub-groups needing their own pic."
    Chinese weddings are cute. Western weddings always have a second start around 23:00, when the old aunt is finally away and the younger people start to dance. People get into party mood, deep conservations while smoking outside etc. Chinese weddings are different. Every eats at 12:00, then there is some talking and drinking. At 18:00 everybody gets sleepy, and at 20:00 everybody is at home.
  186. @Steve Sailer
    In the movie, the main characters eventually go to a mah jhong parlor for some authentic Asian culture, and they eat lots of Chinese food, but that's about it.

    All the pop music on the soundtrack is basically American in style going back to one jazz number (Cab Calloway?). The opening theme song is "Money" by Berry Gordy. In the earliest trailer it sounds like they used the Flying Lizards classic version of "Money" but in the movie they had some Asian pop star re-record it.

    S’poreans are shamelessly Westernized.

  187. @Logan
    I recently watched Red Cliff, the Chinese war epic.

    With the exception of a few characters with distinctive features, I had one hell of a time telling them apart.

    But I strongly suspect this is not because "they all look alike," it's because we're not used to picking up on the subtle differences in Asian faces that we easily pick out in types we're more familiar with. I've seen studied demonstrating that to East Asians, us white types all look pretty much alike too.

    It's simply a case of what we're used to.

    But I strongly suspect this is not because “they all look alike,” it’s because we’re not used to picking up on the subtle differences in Asian faces that we easily pick out in types we’re more familiar with.

    I don’t doubt that’s true, but the uniformity of hair color/type and eye color among East Asians certainly does complicate easily distinguishing them in groups.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    People looking alike is a bigger problem in watching a movie than in real life. My rule of thumb is that when watching a movie I can easily tell apart about 3 characters who are the same race, sex, and age. But 4 can give me trouble, and 5 means I'll probably confuse a couple of characters for the first half hour or so, which can lead to me having problems understanding later plot developments. I first noticed this watching a biopic about the Temptations singing group. I could have followed it easier if there were 4 rather than 5 Temptations.

    Of course if they are wearing military uniforms and short haircuts, it's harder. Uniforms and modern helmets that cover the sides of the heads are is the worst: I really have no clue who was who in Black Hawk Down.

    , @britishbrainsize1325cche he
    Thick straight black hair and black brown eyes signify that biologically we are better than light skin light eyes light hair.
  188. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Americans used to have a term called “Oriental” for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.
     
    I recall when "Oriental" was a fine word, and then when it suddenly became unacceptable in reference to the different flavors of yellowish people with black hair. It simply means "East" m the sense of the rising sun in the East. I suppose the objection was that these people are only from the East if you're from the West, so it's Western-centric or something. My Grandmother was unable to catch up with the times and continued using it for the rest of her life but mostly with respect to various Chop Suey merchants and their delivery slaves.

    Asian seems weird to me, not the least because it's perhaps even less precise than Oriental.

    I’ve written about this matter multiple times here under the iSteve posts. I haven’t been getting through to everyone, apparently. Yes, “Oriental” is more specific, and as Steve wrote above, Asia is a BIG place (the biggest continent, for one thing.)

    I will say that Oriental is used to denote these lands/people being EAST OF EUROPE. For Americans, the Orient is TO THE WEST, unless we want to take the long way around. For the airline great circle routes, meaning the shortest way (other than drilling through the earth) you’d be surprised what the initial heading for a course from say, Washington, FS to Shanghai, China, would be. It’d be just 5 degrees west of due north, starting out.

    Take a globe, and use a piece of thread and just play with it on some of the routes. It’s pretty cool. At this point, the long-range airliners (B777, B787, A-350) can almost go 1/2 way around the world, depending on expected weather, meaning any point can be reached from any other.

    Wait, that’s not my point. My point is “Oriental” is the term, and we’re done talkin’ about it!

  189. @Anon
    OT

    There's a hilarious dust-up in the U.K. right now over television chef Jamie Oliver's cultural appropriation of Jamaica in the form of a microwavable "jerk rice" product.

    A member of pariliament has jumped into the fray. A Jamaican chef-entrepreneur is hoping that Jamie had nothing to do with this atrocity and that it was a cock-up by his staff.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-45246009

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/20/jamie-olivers-jerk-rice-dish-a-mistake-says-jamaica-born-chef

    Jamie has issued a statement:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/jamie-oliver-jerk-rice-row-chef-responds-to-accusations-of-cultural-appropriation-a3916311.html

    In the course of watching news shows about this I saw a white male newsreader read the Wikipedia definition of "cultural appropriation," and I may have detected a slight note of sarcasm in his voice. In any event, the definition threw me, becasue it's been racismized: defined in such a way that only white people can culturally appropriate, while the Great Underrepresented can rip off stuff to their heart's content. I think that this also explains why a second generation Korean American can accuse a white American of cultural appropriation for making a Korean dish, even though the white may have lived in Korea and worked at a Korean restaurant for years and the Korean American grew up eating macaroni and cheese.


    Wikipedia: Cultural appropriation is the adoption of elements of a minority culture by members of the dominant culture. It is distinguished from an equal cultural exchange due to an imbalance of power, often as a byproduct of colonialism and oppression.
     

    In any event, the definition threw me, becasue it’s been racismized: defined in such a way that only white people can culturally appropriate. . . .

    Racismized? You’ve got be kidding! “Cultural appropriation” is a brand new term that has never meant anything other than “Fuck you, Whitey!”

  190. @Hapalong Cassidy
    You’re not likely to see “Crazy Poor Blacks” any time soon either. Case in point:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiewire.com/2015/06/jimmie-walker-youll-never-see-a-poor-black-family-on-tv-again-153788/amp/

    He’s got a point. All of the “black” shows I see commercials for are about some black family that owns a fashion empire or a rap music empire or something like that. The Huxtables seem quaint by comparison.

    There was SANFORD AND SON but that was long ago.

    I didn’t see MOONLIGHT but isn’t that about poor blacks?
    And PRECIOUS. Didn’t see that either, but isn’t that about a fat poor black girl who ate everything?

    BARBERSHOP and FRIDAY were hits not long ago.

  191. @L Woods
    Of course, such royalties for white men would outstrip the ability of the planet’s taxbase to pay many times over.

    Indeed.

  192. @sb
    Asia is indeed a big place.
    May I suggest 3 or 4 sub categories viz:
    North East Asians
    South East Asians
    South Asians
    and
    Middle East and North African

    Sure, base it purely on cardinal directions, but IT IS SO BLAND. That terminology sounds exactly the way the USSR Politburo, Red China’s Chairman Mao, and 1984 would have it. I see that our ctrl-left is heading in the same direction, or at least forcing all the more melodious and evocative terms out.

    I don’t like freaking Myanmar. Burma is fine.
    Kampuchea sucked ass – they got wise and changed it back to Cambodia (still sounds not very romantic).
    Bombay is what I’m calling that city in India, not Mum-freakin-Bai. Listen, if you’re gonna live in a shithole, at least live in a nicely-named shithole.

    It turns out that all the British names were the best. Ceylon, not Sri Lanka, Cathay for China, Canton for Guangzhou. I don’t know – maybe it’s me, but the British names seem much more romantic.

    From Every Picture Tells a Story, Don’t It?, I wrote:

    For example, would you rather date a girl if she were billed as “a beautiful Oriental lass from Canton, in Cathay in the Far East” or if she were “a good worker loyal party-following comrade from Guangzhou’s Tein-hou district of the People’s Republic”?

  193. @Random Smartaleck

    But I strongly suspect this is not because “they all look alike,” it’s because we’re not used to picking up on the subtle differences in Asian faces that we easily pick out in types we’re more familiar with.
     
    I don't doubt that's true, but the uniformity of hair color/type and eye color among East Asians certainly does complicate easily distinguishing them in groups.

    People looking alike is a bigger problem in watching a movie than in real life. My rule of thumb is that when watching a movie I can easily tell apart about 3 characters who are the same race, sex, and age. But 4 can give me trouble, and 5 means I’ll probably confuse a couple of characters for the first half hour or so, which can lead to me having problems understanding later plot developments. I first noticed this watching a biopic about the Temptations singing group. I could have followed it easier if there were 4 rather than 5 Temptations.

    Of course if they are wearing military uniforms and short haircuts, it’s harder. Uniforms and modern helmets that cover the sides of the heads are is the worst: I really have no clue who was who in Black Hawk Down.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    I really have no clue who was who in Black Hawk Down.
     
    You think that's bad? I did not know Mel Gibson was in Apocalypto until after I'd watched the movie and I looked at IMDB. Every one of the savages had more bumps, tattoos, and knick-nacks attached to his face than a Seattle grunge fan. Here's my review, entitled Apocalypto Now!, Steve. No, it's not as insightful as your Takimag reviews, but you may like it. Spoiler alert on the cinematography - very blurry*.

    * This was the youtube release.
  194. @Anonymous
    When I hear “Asian” I think oriental. I never think of East Indian or Sri Lankan. As a kid I recall using the term Chinese as a generic term for anyone with East Asian features. When I encountered an East Asian person (whether Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese), I’d refer to them as Chinese or oriental. “That Chinese woman...” The area I grew up in also used the term “Coke” as a generic term for soda.

    I grew up in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s in a lily-white area. There were no East Asians at my elementary or middle school. East Asians were exotic and in far off lands. I’d only see them in magazines with Pan Am ads about travel to “the Orient”. An East Asian kid at my elementary school would’ve been an object of fascination as much as a blue-eyed, towheaded kid in a rural Chinese village.

    I like your comment, rebel. Yeah, only in the South do people call every soft drink a Coke.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    I like your comment, rebel. Yeah, only in the South do people call every soft drink a Coke.
     
    In parts of the south. Pepsi is from New Bern and RC is from Columbus. Dr Pepper is from Waco. I've certainly heard people call sodas "cokes" but not in the Carolinas or very often in Texas.
  195. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous Jew
    From what I've read, Asians think all Whites look the same. IIRC there's some research on it out there, somewhere, that supports the idea that our ability to discern individuals of a particular race develops at a certain time ( in childhood?). So to a White person raised in East Asia by Asians all Whites would look the same and visa versa. I knew a Korean adopted by Whites and raised in an all-White town but I never asked her.

    In movies, it has to do with personality more than looks.

    In many ‘epic’ movies, most characters have no personality. LOTR was one big blur to me. Lots of hair, beards, and sweat. Hardly any personality. In contrast, 13th WARRIOR has far fewer characters, but I distinctly remember every single one of them.

    Also, you’re bound to notice individuals more in a mono-racial movie. In a Kurosawa movie, the issue of Japanese-ness or Asian-ness never comes up because everyone is Japanese. So, you focus on the characters and personalities.
    But in a movie like BRIDGE ON RIVER KWAI, lots of characters are either British blokes or Japanese guards. So, they fall into broad types.

    However, because Asian personalities tend to be more stoic and withdrawn, they tend to show up less even in Asian movies, especially when the director tells them not to act in the conventional sense.

  196. @anon
    It just makes you sound like a hillbilly.

    Um, no. It makes you sound like a normal person. Only the most deranged of SJW’s have a problem with this obviously neutral term. No sane and decent person could think that “Oriental” is any way worse than “Chinese” or “German” or “tall” or “blue”.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    AGREED!
  197. @anon

    Crazy Poor Indians.
     
    They've already made such a movie. It's called Slumdog Millionaire.

    There is actually an outstanding Crazy Rich Indians movie. Fabulous for what it is.

    Guru.

    Yes, it is ridiculous, but well-made, wonderfully acted, and inspiring too as Bollywood Ayn Rand fantasy.

  198. @Anon
    https://twitter.com/JarvisDupont/status/1031874597690466306

    https://twitter.com/JarvisDupont/status/1031489812140830721

    https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1032376741006794752

    Is Jarvis McGrath an alter ego of Titania Dupont?

  199. @S. Anonyia
    I have to second the recommendation of Turkish shows. They really are entertaining with great production values. They are all soap operas with lots of attention to historical detail.

    There are a few Russian shows that aren't bad too.

    When I was in Turkey in 2009, the TV commercials were about 99% as spectacular as American TV commercials. Very impressive.

    Kind of like how some of the Mexican 3 Amigos film directors learned their craft making TV commercials in Mexico.

  200. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    I haven't (and won't) see this film, but your review sounds suspiciously like what I would've assumed this movie would be like.

    However, I think you may have otherwise missed the whole point of this film.

    You're not supposed to watch it because it's good, or any such heteronormative, privileged imperialist claptrap.

    You're supposed to watch it because it's woke.

    The fact it sucks is a feature, not a bug. It keeps the deplorables away. Plus, people with actual taste & standards might ask troubling questions. It's best if they stay home.

    You’re supposed to watch it because it’s woke.

    Maybe it just wok.

  201. “Pay to Play – Put your money where your mouth is and subscribe for an ad-free experience and to join the world famous Takimag comment board.”

    Just noticed that at the bottom of the article. Whomever is running that website now really seems to loathe the site’s readership. If it is Taki’s daughter, she’s a real C U Next Thursday.

  202. @PiltdownMan

    ...South Asians
    and
    Middle East and North African
     
    The Iranians emigres in Southern California would be unhappy. The Persians don't like to be lumped in with Gulf and Peninsular Arabs, and the people from the Caucasus are another bunch. Maybe an Asian Caucasian/Persian grouping and an Arab grouping would help.

    There is no end to this.

    There is no end to this.

    That’s why people are going to need to print out my handy card. Everything’s going geographic* now:

    ************************************************************
    “Indian” is out – “Subcontinental” is in (like there aren’t lots of pieces of continents around, say the Yucatan and Iberian peninsulas).

    “Oriental” is out – “Northeastern Asian”, “Southeastern Asian”, “West-by-Northwestern” Asian, “38th Parallel Asian”, and “Arctic Circular Asian” are in.

    “Beaner”, “Greaser”, “Chicano” and “Latino” are out – “Mexican”, “Central American”, and “Yucatan Peninsularian” are in.

    “Negro” and variations thereof, along with “dude from some shithole” , are out – “[cardinal direction] African” is in.

    “Towel Head”, “Rag Head”, basically “[any type of woven fabric] – head” are out – “MENA”, MENAing Middle East North African, is in.

    “Big Samoan Fat Fuck” is out – “SPIFF”, meaning “Southwestern Pacific Island Fat Fuck” is in.
    ************************************************************

    * BTW, it’d be fine if the georgraphic terms could be based on rivers, forests, deserts and mountain ranges, etc. Mekong Delta people, Big Horners, Saharans, Amazonians (well, we got those), Caucasians (oh, yeah, we got those too), Upper Penobscotians, Orinocians, and so on. No, it’s got to be plain old bland cardinal directions with modifiers now. BORING!

  203. @Bernie
    I saw Coolie High a few weeks ago on TV (hadn't seen it in about 30 years). For those who dont know it was a 70s movie (1974 I think) about backs growing up in 1960s Chicago. It is actually a decent movie and - astonishingly - not anti-white at all. I dont mean only a few racist rants about whitey. I mean zero anti-white content. Even the few white cops in the movie were not evil or one-dimensional. I recall the blacks I knew in the Army in the late 80s all liked the movie. Could any black movie be made today that is not at least a little anti-white?

    It’s one of my favorites too. The white-baiting is cheap(though funny, especially with the prostitute), but it’s an authentic depiction of a time and place.

  204. @Mr. Anon
    For some reason "asians" came to be, or at least act, greatly offended by the term "oriental", although it is an entirely neutral term and a much more specific one then the overly broad "asians". It all happened around the time that a lot of people started making a living by being offended.

    Edward Said wrote a book called ORIENTALISM.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Edward Said wrote a book called ORIENTALISM.
     
    Yeah. And? It had nothing to do with east asians.
  205. Its “diverse” even though the whole cast is Oriental.

    Which just goes to prove that “diversity” is just a cultural Marxist code-word for anti-white.

  206. @Jmaie
    Where to begin. First, a little about me - 57Yo white guy who ran in the same stomping grounds as yourself. Now married to a Japanese gal (which I state as a measure of credibility). I rarely disagree with your take on things, but I got a good chuckle here.

    But at the high end of society, to judge from this movie, wealthy Chinese prefer to socialize only with other wealthy Chinese. Why the movie is not entitled Crazy Rich Chinese is never explained. The only South Asians in Crazy Rich Asians’ version of Singapore are a few Sikh armed security guards who frighten the smooth-skinned Chinese with their barbaric beards."
     
    *All* Asians prefer to socialize among themselves. They are completely racist against non-Asians and then within the various subgroups as well. Fancy vs. jungle, its absolutely the me-and-my-brother me-and-my-clan thing. Try calling a Japanese in Japan "Asian" and see how well it goes over. And they really don't much understand why we westerners think anything wrong with it.

    but receptions with 2,000 invited family and friends seemed a little much even by Reagan-era Bel-Air standards.
     
    Even poor Chinese will have massive numbers of guests at their wedding. Ask any photographer who's spent three hours taking pictures after the ceremony, with every possible permutation of family sub-groups needing their own pic.

    East Asians, at least those who aren’t mixed race, tend to look alike.
     
    Funny, Asians say exactly the same thing about white folks...

    *All* Asians prefer to socialize among themselves. They are completely racist against non-Asians and then within the various subgroups as well.

    I don’t know. A cousin of mine married the daughter of a Chinese bureaucrat. At the wedding reception the bureaucrat and his wife seemed to venerate my two-year-old son as something approaching a god.

    • Replies: @Jmaie
    Well, I almost threw in some boiler plate about not wanting to paint with too broad a brush. There are always exceptions and no group is truly monolithic.
  207. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Seth Largo
    Are directors like Zhang Yimou and Chen Kaige (not to mention their late cousin across the sea, Akira Kurosawa) consciously making movies for Westerners?

    Insofar as early filmmakers like Kurosawa were, by necessity, influenced by Western filmmaking, I suppose all subsequent East Asian directors are, too. But the sumptuous cinematography and larger-than-life narratives popularized in the 2000s defined most Chinese and Japanese film styles well before that odd period of popularization. Raise the Red Lantern and Farewell my Concubine are two good examples from the early 90s.

    Are directors like Zhang Yimou and Chen Kaige (not to mention their late cousin across the sea, Akira Kurosawa) consciously making movies for Westerners?

    Consciously no. But I suppose when foreigners take notice and shower you with accolades, you do become more mindful of their responses as well. All artists make things for an audience and the change in the audience will affect, even if subconsciously, how an artist sees his own material.

    Many art film directors are surely very mindful of how cinephiles may react at film festivals. So many of their movies live or die in the film festival circuit.

  208. @Steve Sailer
    People looking alike is a bigger problem in watching a movie than in real life. My rule of thumb is that when watching a movie I can easily tell apart about 3 characters who are the same race, sex, and age. But 4 can give me trouble, and 5 means I'll probably confuse a couple of characters for the first half hour or so, which can lead to me having problems understanding later plot developments. I first noticed this watching a biopic about the Temptations singing group. I could have followed it easier if there were 4 rather than 5 Temptations.

    Of course if they are wearing military uniforms and short haircuts, it's harder. Uniforms and modern helmets that cover the sides of the heads are is the worst: I really have no clue who was who in Black Hawk Down.

    I really have no clue who was who in Black Hawk Down.

    You think that’s bad? I did not know Mel Gibson was in Apocalypto until after I’d watched the movie and I looked at IMDB. Every one of the savages had more bumps, tattoos, and knick-nacks attached to his face than a Seattle grunge fan. Here’s my review, entitled Apocalypto Now!, Steve. No, it’s not as insightful as your Takimag reviews, but you may like it. Spoiler alert on the cinematography – very blurry*.

    * This was the youtube release.

  209. @ben tillman
    Um, no. It makes you sound like a normal person. Only the most deranged of SJW's have a problem with this obviously neutral term. No sane and decent person could think that "Oriental" is any way worse than "Chinese" or "German" or "tall" or "blue".

    AGREED!

  210. @Twinkie

    The Hong Kong film industry was a Big Thing back in the 1990s when I moved here.
     
    The last Hong Kong movie I enjoyed was “Infernal Affairs” which was ruinously remade as “The Departed.”

    Even Japanese cinema seems to be in the doldrums lately. On the other hand, the South Korean film industry seems to be in the high right now. Quite a few are available on Netflix, and I’m surprised that young Europeans and Americans seem to know Korean actors/actresses. Maybe they are benefiting from the K-drama and K-pop-fueled “Korean Wave.”

    Even Japanese cinema seems to be in the doldrums lately.

    Lately? It plummeted in the late 60s. On and off, Japan made some great movies, but it’s one of the saddest declines, along with Italian cinema.

    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    German cinema is also a very sad story.
  211. @Achmed E. Newman
    I like your comment, rebel. Yeah, only in the South do people call every soft drink a Coke.

    I like your comment, rebel. Yeah, only in the South do people call every soft drink a Coke.

    In parts of the south. Pepsi is from New Bern and RC is from Columbus. Dr Pepper is from Waco. I’ve certainly heard people call sodas “cokes” but not in the Carolinas or very often in Texas.

  212. @Steve Sailer
    Justin Lin, an Asian-American director, revived Fast and Furious in the middle of its run.

    Mr. Lin saved the entire Fast and Furious franchise with this scene:

    And even 12 years later, Don Omar’s Bandoleros is a far better Latin cut than the sleazy Despacito

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Justin Lin's first Fast and Furious movie was a low budget throwaway intended to milk a little more money out of a minor franchise, but he turned it around and made it huge.
  213. @scrivener3
    "These upper class Chinese Singaporeans are so rich they can clown on Westerners, like that hotel scene, don’t have to pander to Western tastes"

    I don;t know, their cities look like any western city. They could have created their own native style but it looks like a clone of NY. Paris does not look like a clone of NY, they limit skyscrapers.

    The women dress in western fashion. The hotels are copies of British hotels, I'll bet they listen to American music or even more western Beethoven's 9th, their kids play violin not Asian instruments, what movies do they watch, do their rich young men drive ferrari's? All western.

    Right. Asian Americans love the idea of Singapore because its rich, not like those backwards cousins from rural China. It’s westernized, so it doesn’t make accultured Asian Americans too uncomfortable. And they’re one of them, ethnically Chinese.

    But if you’re going to try to one-up someone, you need to beat them at their own game. If you’re playing your own separate games you can’t really make comparisons can you? So Asian Americans love the conspicuous consumption of western products in Crazy Rich Asians. The message is we can buy these and you can’t.

    In the end it panders to the same instinct as Black Panther.

  214. @DFH
    It's very embarassing for Asians if a very crass sort of materialism really is their fantasy.

    It’s very embarassing for Asians if a very crass sort of materialism really is their fantasy.

    Bling is the only culture left.

  215. @The Alarmist

    "So, what is the message of this movie? Asian male market value is so low that he needs a billion dollars to get a girl?"
     
    No, the price of Asian poontang has gone way up.

    No, the price of Asian poontang has gone way up.

    It’s too bad this wasn’t produced by Dickson Poon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickson_Poon

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    It’s too bad this wasn’t produced by Dickson Poon.
     
    Or by my favorite purveyor of pearls:


    http://impress.hk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/fookyue02.jpg

  216. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Americans used to have a term called “Oriental” for East Asian. It was the official US government term up until the 1980 Census, I believe.
     
    I recall when "Oriental" was a fine word, and then when it suddenly became unacceptable in reference to the different flavors of yellowish people with black hair. It simply means "East" m the sense of the rising sun in the East. I suppose the objection was that these people are only from the East if you're from the West, so it's Western-centric or something. My Grandmother was unable to catch up with the times and continued using it for the rest of her life but mostly with respect to various Chop Suey merchants and their delivery slaves.

    Asian seems weird to me, not the least because it's perhaps even less precise than Oriental.

    I use Oriental and my much younger girlfriend says it is like using the word colored or Negro. I don’t agree.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I use Oriental and my much younger girlfriend says it is like using the word colored or Negro. I don’t agree.
     
    She's right. What's wrong with "colored" or "Negro"?
    , @J.Ross
    "Asia" might be geographically true but it's culturally useless. We really do need words that distinguish the Turkic, Indic, Siberian, Kazakh, Sinic, Malay, and Pacific spheres, and we can't name them after countries like I just did or we'll have constant bickering.
  217. @The Wild Geese Howard
    Mr. Lin saved the entire Fast and Furious franchise with this scene:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jIvVXSCeYI

    And even 12 years later, Don Omar's Bandoleros is a far better Latin cut than the sleazy Despacito

    Justin Lin’s first Fast and Furious movie was a low budget throwaway intended to milk a little more money out of a minor franchise, but he turned it around and made it huge.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    Correct.

    2 Fast 2 Furious had an extremely direct-to-video quality that radiates from every aspect of the production.
  218. @Anonymous
    Steve, I think Crazy Rich Asians is Western propaganda aimed at the East Asian community, both in America and in Asia.

    The most striking thing about the movie for me was the prominence of Christianity. The Youngs are reading Bibles in English. The marriage is in a European-style cathedral. Where were the Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism? Didn't people get married in Asia before Euro Christians showed up? Singapore itself only has a minority of Christians.

    The aspirational youth of Asia will see these people buying European luxury products like Armani, Dolce and Gabbana and what not. Where are the goods produced by 5000 years of Chinese culture? It's not like they're incapable of producing it, it isn't that hard to make a handbag or dress. It's just the "cool" factor. And coolness is created by movies, books and television.

    English-speaking, Yellow on the outside White on the inside Asians were the only strong characters in the movie. And the characters had names that one associates with old money English aristocrats - Eleanor, Astrid, Alistair, Felicity, Araminta, The natives were basically portrayed as rustic bumpkins (perhaps accurately).

    Even at the deeper, philosophical level - the Chinese-minded Eleanor Young is forced to accept the Americanized Rachel as the right match for her son. Heck, her son was pretty much ready to ditch his mother, his home culture and his inheritance to live it up with CareerGrrl in NYC. It's a subtle put down of anything that opposes the standard liberal American mindset.

    I think Black Panther (which I didn't have the stomach to watch) was possibly more accepting of the native culture. Crazy Rich Asians is just a movie that tells Asians that White is Right.

    I think Crazy Rich Asians is Western propaganda aimed at the East Asian community, both in America and in Asia.
    The most striking thing about the movie for me was the prominence of Christianity.

    But the new religion of the West is Queertianity.

    • Replies: @Bucky
    The Christianity is actually accurate.

    East Asians often adopt fundie versions of Christianity, but they do so in an innocent manner that is harmless. In Singapore in particular, Christianity is a class thing and that likely is the level at which they are operating. It is interesting that so few of them are able to really penetrate what the dogma actually means, but adhere to it they do.

    Which means that there is this weird cognitive dissonance going on.
  219. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    Chinese cinema in the US seemed to peak with Jet Li’s “Hero”. It’s not-so-subtle pro-Chinese Authoritarianism message might have been a little too much for Westerners to stomach.

    Chinese cinema in the US seemed to peak with Jet Li’s “Hero”. It’s not-so-subtle pro-Chinese Authoritarianism message might have been a little too much for Westerners to stomach.

    No, that wasn’t it. It was boring as hell.

    Westerners love any message as long as it’s made ‘cool’. Take 300, a huge hit. That was pop-fascist war porn. But it was done in a fun way. HERO was deadly. It took all the stuff that make Hong Kong movies fun and silly and did them straight. It’s like trying to make imperial cuisine with fast food ingredients. I love movies like SWORDSMAN III(aka EAST IS RED) because they are so over-the-top ludicrous.

    But then, Wong Kar-Wai did an arty take on HK wire-fu with ASHES OF TIME that has a great opening but gets boring as hell. At least, ASHES was small enough to be a personal movie.
    The big-budged HERO was like watching the Olympic Ceremony.

    I wouldn’t mind watching an epic about Chinese Imperial History. That’s a big subject worthy of serious treatment, like RAN by Kurosawa and THE LEOPARD by Visconti. NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA by Schaffner is pretty good too.

    But recently, China has been making hybrid epics that tackle big historical themes but in populist wire-fu style. The result is utterly ludicrous, like Michael Bay’s PEARL HARBOR that treats a national tragedy like an amusement park ride. It’s one thing for one guy who kick 100 butts in a kung fu movie, but not in a movie that is supposed to be about real history.

    Just like Indian directors feel obligated to add musical numbers even in movies that don’t call for such silliness, Chinese directors feel obligated to add wire-fu silliness to movies with serious themes and subjects.

    PS. I’m not sure HERO works as nationalist propaganda. When 1000s of Chinese soldiers are defeated by a Chinese woman doing a shampoo commercial, what does it say about Chinese prowess and pride?

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    The result is utterly ludicrous, like Michael Bay’s PEARL HARBOR
     
    Back in college I took an Asian girl to Pearl Harbor on opening night.

    I tried to explain to her why it would be awkward as hell.
  220. @Flip
    I use Oriental and my much younger girlfriend says it is like using the word colored or Negro. I don't agree.

    I use Oriental and my much younger girlfriend says it is like using the word colored or Negro. I don’t agree.

    She’s right. What’s wrong with “colored” or “Negro”?

  221. @Anon
    No, the price of Asian poontang has gone way up.

    It's too bad this wasn't produced by Dickson Poon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickson_Poon

    It’s too bad this wasn’t produced by Dickson Poon.

    Or by my favorite purveyor of pearls:

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    I wonder if they make Ben Wa balls.
  222. I absolutely hate the mindset of what we might call Supreme Gentlemen. There’s so many important things happening in Asia and through Asians right now, and CRA has nothing to say about any of it. It wants you to pornographically view and then re-view evidence of rich people (who might as well be upper class Mexicans or modern Belgian lords) having a lot of money, not that that means anything, comes from anywhere or goes anywhere. I’ve met a small number of East Asians away from keyboard like this (most Asians I meet are reliably cool people), where it’s really important to them that their shoes are a certain kind of shoe, and, more importantly, they are hurt and confused when you don’t care. They formulate theories about a racist exclusion system because surely a white guy with shoes like that would have gotten proper shoe credit. These people have no politics, teleologically because their ancestors recognized that opinions are a dumb weight to carry around when you are within reach of any Chinese government, but presently because, well, did I mention the shoes?
    NPR had the author of the book on and he had this insufferably empty tone, attempting to make every pathless glorified mumbling precious and impressive.
    Imagine if Oliver Stone or Martin Scorsese made a biopic about Lee Kwan Yew, even if it came out as hammy and rushed as Kundun. All the wealth in Singapore plus the history and philosophy that made it possible.

  223. @Bucky
    Why do Chinese movies and Japanese movies suck?

    Because they don’t have any Jews.

    If Jews had been in China, China would rule the world.

    Oy vey, another Jewish supremacist?

    I am not so much into Asian cinema, and I know very little about Chinese cinema, but the Japanese have made great films (not to mention animation), and still do occasionally (see the latest winner at Cannes). Koreans also have been making some good films.

    Hollywood movies are popular but many are as trashy as in any other place, only trash made with a lot of money. Of course, they produce much more quantity, and they have great technicians, so their trash is better than in other parts.

    Jewish domination of media is a fact, and I won’t go into the reasons for that, but there are Jews in Latin America and many are into film, but they don’t seem to be making many good or popular movies. Why? There is less money, and less talent. Hollywood has an almost worldwide monopoly on film production nowadays, which is a shame.

    In any case, the Jews are planning to move to China soon, why do you think so many Jews such as Zuckerberg are marrying Chinese?

  224. @Flip
    I use Oriental and my much younger girlfriend says it is like using the word colored or Negro. I don't agree.

    “Asia” might be geographically true but it’s culturally useless. We really do need words that distinguish the Turkic, Indic, Siberian, Kazakh, Sinic, Malay, and Pacific spheres, and we can’t name them after countries like I just did or we’ll have constant bickering.

  225. @The Wild Geese Howard
    Asians appropriating 18 different subcultures:

    https://youtu.be/WIlYPEQb6rQ

    It was amusing for a second. Then it got old but I kept watching because Porter Lynn looked amazing as every type of Asian girl because Porter Lynn looks amazing.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    I'm pretty sure that clip was a marketing exercise for Porter Lynn to market herself as the Ultimate Asian Girl.

    Though she should have skipped the unfortunate wrist tattoo.
  226. @Steve Sailer
    Justin Lin's first Fast and Furious movie was a low budget throwaway intended to milk a little more money out of a minor franchise, but he turned it around and made it huge.

    Correct.

    2 Fast 2 Furious had an extremely direct-to-video quality that radiates from every aspect of the production.

  227. @Anon
    Edward Said wrote a book called ORIENTALISM.

    Edward Said wrote a book called ORIENTALISM.

    Yeah. And? It had nothing to do with east asians.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar


    Edward Said wrote a book called ORIENTALISM.

     

    Yeah. And? It had nothing to do with east asians.

     

    But it was quite popular with pederasts.

    https://ia800707.us.archive.org/zipview.php?zip=/8/items/olcovers709/olcovers709-L.zip&file=7098733-L.jpg
  228. @Anon
    Chinese cinema in the US seemed to peak with Jet Li’s “Hero”. It’s not-so-subtle pro-Chinese Authoritarianism message might have been a little too much for Westerners to stomach.

    No, that wasn't it. It was boring as hell.

    Westerners love any message as long as it's made 'cool'. Take 300, a huge hit. That was pop-fascist war porn. But it was done in a fun way. HERO was deadly. It took all the stuff that make Hong Kong movies fun and silly and did them straight. It's like trying to make imperial cuisine with fast food ingredients. I love movies like SWORDSMAN III(aka EAST IS RED) because they are so over-the-top ludicrous.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q8Q5tl6qec

    But then, Wong Kar-Wai did an arty take on HK wire-fu with ASHES OF TIME that has a great opening but gets boring as hell. At least, ASHES was small enough to be a personal movie.
    The big-budged HERO was like watching the Olympic Ceremony.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOmBkF6nKvc

    I wouldn't mind watching an epic about Chinese Imperial History. That's a big subject worthy of serious treatment, like RAN by Kurosawa and THE LEOPARD by Visconti. NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA by Schaffner is pretty good too.

    But recently, China has been making hybrid epics that tackle big historical themes but in populist wire-fu style. The result is utterly ludicrous, like Michael Bay's PEARL HARBOR that treats a national tragedy like an amusement park ride. It's one thing for one guy who kick 100 butts in a kung fu movie, but not in a movie that is supposed to be about real history.

    Just like Indian directors feel obligated to add musical numbers even in movies that don't call for such silliness, Chinese directors feel obligated to add wire-fu silliness to movies with serious themes and subjects.

    PS. I'm not sure HERO works as nationalist propaganda. When 1000s of Chinese soldiers are defeated by a Chinese woman doing a shampoo commercial, what does it say about Chinese prowess and pride?

    The result is utterly ludicrous, like Michael Bay’s PEARL HARBOR

    Back in college I took an Asian girl to Pearl Harbor on opening night.

    I tried to explain to her why it would be awkward as hell.

  229. @ben tillman

    *All* Asians prefer to socialize among themselves. They are completely racist against non-Asians and then within the various subgroups as well.
     
    I don't know. A cousin of mine married the daughter of a Chinese bureaucrat. At the wedding reception the bureaucrat and his wife seemed to venerate my two-year-old son as something approaching a god.

    Well, I almost threw in some boiler plate about not wanting to paint with too broad a brush. There are always exceptions and no group is truly monolithic.

  230. @Bucky
    Why do Chinese movies and Japanese movies suck?

    Because they don’t have any Jews.

    If Jews had been in China, China would rule the world.

    Why do Chinese movies and Japanese movies suck?

    Because they don’t have any Jews.

    So why do american movies suck?

    • Replies: @Bucky
    Because we are in an era of decadence and everyone is out of ideas. American movies don’t entire suck either, at least compared to Asian movies which are overly melodramatic or are overly explicitly political (Chinese victimhood at the hands of the Japs is a big one).
  231. @Twinkie

    The Hong Kong film industry was a Big Thing back in the 1990s when I moved here.
     
    The last Hong Kong movie I enjoyed was “Infernal Affairs” which was ruinously remade as “The Departed.”

    Even Japanese cinema seems to be in the doldrums lately. On the other hand, the South Korean film industry seems to be in the high right now. Quite a few are available on Netflix, and I’m surprised that young Europeans and Americans seem to know Korean actors/actresses. Maybe they are benefiting from the K-drama and K-pop-fueled “Korean Wave.”

    The last Hong Kong movie I enjoyed was “Infernal Affairs” which was ruinously remade as “The Departed.”

    LOL. The Departed was a huge improvement over Infernal Affairs. First off, The Departed had a sense of humor. Infernal Affairs was way heavy on the self-serious mopey melodrama. And the plodding score and editing was sleep inducing.

    Look lively, gents!

    Rooftop homosexual assignation vs. two guys who want to kill each other:

    • Disagree: Escher
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    The original had the concept of eternal living hell as punishment - the villain having to spend the rest of his life looking over shoulder, fearing being discovered. The remake simply had a “satisfying” Hollywood ending of the bad guying getting it.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Isn't it a cover story that "The Departed" is based on "Internal Affairs" rather than on some writer's book on White Bulger that Scorsese couldn't get the rights to and was eventually made into a movie with Johnny Depp a few years ago? William Monahan's script is a Boston Irish epic and really doesn't borrow anything from Internal Affairs other than a one sentence pitch about symmetrical infiltrations. Internal Affairs is fine, but it's a small tightly wound movie while The Departed is huge.
    , @L Woods
    The need for “comic relief” is a hallmark of the small minded.
    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    The Departed is the most overrated film of the last 15 years. Just terrible, after school special terrible acting from all the principals.
  232. @attilathehen
    I know his background. He would identify as Asian. Accept this fact. He is a male Gemma Chan. Or maybe there are Asians in your life?

    I know his background. He would identify as Asian.

    He strongly identifies with his Asian ancestry:

    People were like, ‘This guy’s half-Asian, he’s half-white, he’s not even full Asian,’ and it comes to, like, how Asian do you have to be to be considered Asian?… I’ve lived 16, 17 years of my life in Asia, and that’s most of my life. I was born in Asia, I’ve lived cultures that are synonymous with Asian culture, but it’s still not Asian enough for some people. Where are the boundaries? Where are the lines drawn for saying that you cannot play this character because you’re not fully Asian?

    http://ethnicelebs.com/henry-golding

    Accept this fact.

    I always try to accept facts….and the fact is that Mr Golding is a mixture of European and Asian. That fact seems to bother Mr Golding, but facts are stubborn things…

    He is a male Gemma Chan.

    He wishes. Gemma Chan is completely East Asian in terms of ancestry:

    Place of Birth: Southwark, London, England, U.K.

    Date of Birth: 29 November, 1982

    Ethnicity: Chinese

    Gemma Chan is a British film, television, and theatre actress, and fashion model. She has starred in the films Transformers: The Last Knight and Crazy Rich Asians, among others.

    http://ethnicelebs.com/gemma-chan

    Or maybe there are Asians in your life?

    Currently? No. Girlfriend for the last couple of years is English-French in terms of ancestry.In the past, though, I have dated some East Asian and Hapa girls. And my first serious girlfriend in High School was half-Czech, half South-Asian.

  233. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    The last Hong Kong movie I enjoyed was “Infernal Affairs” which was ruinously remade as “The Departed.”
     
    LOL. The Departed was a huge improvement over Infernal Affairs. First off, The Departed had a sense of humor. Infernal Affairs was way heavy on the self-serious mopey melodrama. And the plodding score and editing was sleep inducing.

    Look lively, gents!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKIPOV1nIAc

    Rooftop homosexual assignation vs. two guys who want to kill each other:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJhixh0FpN0

    The original had the concept of eternal living hell as punishment – the villain having to spend the rest of his life looking over shoulder, fearing being discovered. The remake simply had a “satisfying” Hollywood ending of the bad guying getting it.

  234. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    The last Hong Kong movie I enjoyed was “Infernal Affairs” which was ruinously remade as “The Departed.”
     
    LOL. The Departed was a huge improvement over Infernal Affairs. First off, The Departed had a sense of humor. Infernal Affairs was way heavy on the self-serious mopey melodrama. And the plodding score and editing was sleep inducing.

    Look lively, gents!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKIPOV1nIAc

    Rooftop homosexual assignation vs. two guys who want to kill each other:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJhixh0FpN0

    Isn’t it a cover story that “The Departed” is based on “Internal Affairs” rather than on some writer’s book on White Bulger that Scorsese couldn’t get the rights to and was eventually made into a movie with Johnny Depp a few years ago? William Monahan’s script is a Boston Irish epic and really doesn’t borrow anything from Internal Affairs other than a one sentence pitch about symmetrical infiltrations. Internal Affairs is fine, but it’s a small tightly wound movie while The Departed is huge.

    • Replies: @Escher
    "The Departed" has several scenes that are straight out lifted from "Infernal Affairs" (a far superior movie IMO). I think it borrows more than 1 line.
    Too bad Scorcese won his Oscar for a film adaptation, rather than for one of his excellent original works.
  235. @Steve Sailer
    As I said in my review, "Why the movie isn't entitled 'Crazy Rich Chinese' is never explained."

    And tan Asians make up another large part of Asia. Assad, for example, isn't very brown.

    Asia is really big.

    The word “oriental” was much more accurate and descriptive.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The word “oriental” was much more accurate and descriptive.

     

    Unfortunately, it's inherently dismissive of China's position at the center of the world.

    Kind of like those nasty Germans using Ferro instead of Greenwich. Everyone knows the Prime Meridian belongs in ChristianiaOsloVienna Lisbon CadizBudapestParis.

    http://elte.prompt.hu/sites/default/files/tananyagok/MapGridsAndDatums/ch02s02.html

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Popular_Science_Monthly/Volume_15/June_1879/Selecting_a_First_Meridian

    https://decodingsatan.blogspot.com/2016/05/paris-meridian.html

  236. @Mr. Anon

    Why do Chinese movies and Japanese movies suck?

    Because they don’t have any Jews.
     
    So why do american movies suck?

    Because we are in an era of decadence and everyone is out of ideas. American movies don’t entire suck either, at least compared to Asian movies which are overly melodramatic or are overly explicitly political (Chinese victimhood at the hands of the Japs is a big one).

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    American movies don’t entire suck either,........
     
    Iron Man, Spiderman, This-man, That-man - formulaic drivel pitched at 12 year olds.

    American movies have become really crappy. They suck. Big time.
  237. @Anon
    I think Crazy Rich Asians is Western propaganda aimed at the East Asian community, both in America and in Asia.
    The most striking thing about the movie for me was the prominence of Christianity.


    But the new religion of the West is Queertianity.

    The Christianity is actually accurate.

    East Asians often adopt fundie versions of Christianity, but they do so in an innocent manner that is harmless. In Singapore in particular, Christianity is a class thing and that likely is the level at which they are operating. It is interesting that so few of them are able to really penetrate what the dogma actually means, but adhere to it they do.

    Which means that there is this weird cognitive dissonance going on.

  238. @Reg Cæsar

    It’s too bad this wasn’t produced by Dickson Poon.
     
    Or by my favorite purveyor of pearls:


    http://impress.hk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/fookyue02.jpg

    I wonder if they make Ben Wa balls.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I wonder if they make Ben Wa balls.

     

    I always want to spell that B-E-N-O-I-T for some reason.
  239. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    The last Hong Kong movie I enjoyed was “Infernal Affairs” which was ruinously remade as “The Departed.”
     
    LOL. The Departed was a huge improvement over Infernal Affairs. First off, The Departed had a sense of humor. Infernal Affairs was way heavy on the self-serious mopey melodrama. And the plodding score and editing was sleep inducing.

    Look lively, gents!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKIPOV1nIAc

    Rooftop homosexual assignation vs. two guys who want to kill each other:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJhixh0FpN0

    The need for “comic relief” is a hallmark of the small minded.

  240. really doesn’t borrow anything from Internal Affairs other than a one sentence pitch about symmetrical infiltrations.

    Entire plot lines were borrowed, including the symmetrical infiltrations and the cat-and-mouse game played by the said infiltrators, which provides much of the suspense in both films, and of course the discovery of the villain by the female lead.

    Two major differences are the bolted on Whitey Bulger role and the Hollywood ending.

    Btw, that was NOT the last Chinese language film I enjoyed. It was “Lust, Caution” by Ang Lee. However, that was a joint US-China-Taiwan produced, rather than a Hong Kong film.

  241. @Jmaie
    Where to begin. First, a little about me - 57Yo white guy who ran in the same stomping grounds as yourself. Now married to a Japanese gal (which I state as a measure of credibility). I rarely disagree with your take on things, but I got a good chuckle here.

    But at the high end of society, to judge from this movie, wealthy Chinese prefer to socialize only with other wealthy Chinese. Why the movie is not entitled Crazy Rich Chinese is never explained. The only South Asians in Crazy Rich Asians’ version of Singapore are a few Sikh armed security guards who frighten the smooth-skinned Chinese with their barbaric beards."
     
    *All* Asians prefer to socialize among themselves. They are completely racist against non-Asians and then within the various subgroups as well. Fancy vs. jungle, its absolutely the me-and-my-brother me-and-my-clan thing. Try calling a Japanese in Japan "Asian" and see how well it goes over. And they really don't much understand why we westerners think anything wrong with it.

    but receptions with 2,000 invited family and friends seemed a little much even by Reagan-era Bel-Air standards.
     
    Even poor Chinese will have massive numbers of guests at their wedding. Ask any photographer who's spent three hours taking pictures after the ceremony, with every possible permutation of family sub-groups needing their own pic.

    East Asians, at least those who aren’t mixed race, tend to look alike.
     
    Funny, Asians say exactly the same thing about white folks...

    “Even poor Chinese will have massive numbers of guests at their wedding. Ask any photographer who’s spent three hours taking pictures after the ceremony, with every possible permutation of family sub-groups needing their own pic.”
    Chinese weddings are cute. Western weddings always have a second start around 23:00, when the old aunt is finally away and the younger people start to dance. People get into party mood, deep conservations while smoking outside etc. Chinese weddings are different. Every eats at 12:00, then there is some talking and drinking. At 18:00 everybody gets sleepy, and at 20:00 everybody is at home.

  242. @Anon
    Even Japanese cinema seems to be in the doldrums lately.

    Lately? It plummeted in the late 60s. On and off, Japan made some great movies, but it's one of the saddest declines, along with Italian cinema.

    German cinema is also a very sad story.

  243. @Steve Sailer
    As I said in my review, "Why the movie isn't entitled 'Crazy Rich Chinese' is never explained."

    And tan Asians make up another large part of Asia. Assad, for example, isn't very brown.

    Asia is really big.

    Grouping Syria with South Korea is ridiculous. Geographers need to get their act together.

  244. @Charles_Atlanta
    It was amusing for a second. Then it got old but I kept watching because Porter Lynn looked amazing as every type of Asian girl because Porter Lynn looks amazing.

    I’m pretty sure that clip was a marketing exercise for Porter Lynn to market herself as the Ultimate Asian Girl.

    Though she should have skipped the unfortunate wrist tattoo.

  245. @Steve Sailer
    Isn't it a cover story that "The Departed" is based on "Internal Affairs" rather than on some writer's book on White Bulger that Scorsese couldn't get the rights to and was eventually made into a movie with Johnny Depp a few years ago? William Monahan's script is a Boston Irish epic and really doesn't borrow anything from Internal Affairs other than a one sentence pitch about symmetrical infiltrations. Internal Affairs is fine, but it's a small tightly wound movie while The Departed is huge.

    “The Departed” has several scenes that are straight out lifted from “Infernal Affairs” (a far superior movie IMO). I think it borrows more than 1 line.
    Too bad Scorcese won his Oscar for a film adaptation, rather than for one of his excellent original works.

  246. @Fred Boynton
    Under-Represented Minority

    Thanks!

  247. @Anon
    What really stands out about CRA is not the all-Asian cast. Rather, the movie is strange by Hollywood standards because it's about yellow(or half-yellow) boy meets yellow girl.
    There have been many stories with yellow girls in Hollywood movies, but they were almost always with white men. SAYONARA may have started the trend. There was also COME SEE THE PARADISE, SNOW FALLING ON CEDARS(didn't see), HEAVEN AND EARTH, KARATE KID II, SOY LUCK CLUB, YEAR OF THE DRAGON, and many others.

    Generally, Asian women have been the love things of white men while Asian guys got cast as dork in SIXTEEN CANDLES and the dufus in FARGO. In any male dominated society, it is the desire of the men to conquer women of other races while keeping their own women to themselves. And America used to be a white-male-dominated society. So, while it was sort-of-okay to show white men with other women -- Asians, Squaw women, Tahitians, Mexican women, and even black women -- , it was not okay for white women to be with other men. So, 007 movies had this white guy humping women of all colors, but a white female counterpart didn't exist.

    Every society feels this way. Every empire was about 'we take their women, but they don't take our women'. And this rule held in the US until relatively recently. It held because of white/Jewish male domination of media and institutions. It also held because of white male prestige. White men were naturally seen as the strongest and manliest. They dominated sports and movies and etc.
    So, even without white male domination of institutions, white males felt little threat from most non-white males. Even with total freedom, white women generally preferred white men over Asian men, Hindu men, Mexican men, Arab men. and etc.
    But one exception was the Negro. White guys dominated sports in the past because of institutional discrimination against blacks. Also, when blacks came up with interesting music, the industry got some white guy to do the cross-0ver thing. And even in the age of Muhammad Ali, the most famous boxer on the screen was Rocky.

    But over time, blacks got full access to sports and pop culture. And they demolished white manhood in sports. They out-hollered whites in music. And internet led to white girls trading images of negro dongs on their iphones. So, it led to jungle fever, cucky-wuckery, and next 007 being a Negro. This was supposed to be a blow against 'racism' because black power gained at the expense of old white 'racism'. But it was a new kind of race-ism based on real racial differences. When institutional and social barriers are removed, biological barriers arise. NFL is technically open to all races, but most positions might as well say "Only Negro DNA allowed" and increasing number of white women might has well carry a sign, "I only go Negro" like Milo the homo.

    Now, if white guys have to take the backseat to Negroes who are the new idol of Western Manhood, then it means Asian, Hindu, Mexican, and etc guys have even less prestige as men. What is the typical image of a Meso-American? Guillermo. Hindu guys are always some computer nerd. And Asian guys are like the dufus in FARGO. It's worse for East Asian men than for Mexican men, Hindu men, and Arab men because East Asian having higher standards. As many are well-educated, they want quality women. In contrast, a Mexican guy will go with any senorita as long as she can make tacos. Also, as East Asian women are well-educated, they also want the best, and it's often white males. Notice all the famous Asian women in the US are almost always with white men(or even with black men like Ellen Pao). Also, East Asian women have higher desirability rating than Mexican women, Hindu women, and Arab women. So, they are sought out more by non-Asian men. Also, there is more of a cultural factor of sticking together among Hindus and Arab Muslims. In contrast, East Asians in the West tend to be more white-bread than white. They are anemic in their sense of tribalism or bloodlines. Their main identity is status, and that means they will go with anyone to raise their status.

    Amy Chua wrote about tribalism, but I wonder if that is the main factor in our globalized world. Isn't Primalism or Optimalism the primary forces? After all, if people are so tribal, why are so many non-whites willing to give up their nations, kinfolks, and culture to come to the West and start anew with new constructed identities? Why do most kids of these parents lose their language of origin? Why do they show no interest in their own tribal culture and only indulge in pop culture?
    Also, true tribalism has to be about unity of men and women of a race. But we see alarming rise of jungle fever among white women. And so many Asian women like Chua go with Jewish or white men. And intermarriage among Jews have skyrocketed. Also, Muslims join the US military and serve the War Machine to smash Muslim nations.

    It seems people are driven more by primalism. It is about reaching the optimal midpoint between the individual will to power and the submissive willingness to cower(before the true power). Imagine a pack of wolves where each wolf wants to be the leader. Each tries to optimize its status. So, they fight. But there can be only one winner, so others will have to seek a midpoint between the desire to reach as high as possible and the willingness to cower before the real alpha.
    It's like the scene in EXCALIBUR when Arthur fights with Lancelot. Lancelot is a warrior who will take on anyone. But Arthur draws power from the sword and beats him. And then, Lancelot is humble before Arthur and willing to serve him most loyally. He reached the midpoint between his will to rule and his willingness to serve. (Granted, Arthur won by cheating, and this becomes the basis of what goes wrong with Camelot in the end.) In the US, everyone wants to be the winner. Tony Montana or Gordon Gekko. But most people can't rise to the top. So, they reach as high as possible and then try to serve the uppermost power. Primalism is about optimizing one's individual talent as far as it will go, but when the limit is met, Will to Power gives into Willingness to Cower before the Real Power. And primalism affects the sexes differently, and this undermines tribalism. This may be most pronounced among East Asians where women have high sexual market value and men have low sexual market value.

    So, what is really distinctive about CRA is that the Asian girl goes with an Asian guy. While such is not taboo in Hollywood, it is rare because the general impression is that Asian men aren't exciting. And if Asian women really do have sexual value, they should be matched with men with sexual value, like whites or blacks. Why should Asian female winners go with Asian male losers?

    But then, notice that the guy in CRA has to be superduper rich to get the girl. So, what is the message? It actually conforms to the Hollywood stereotype. For Asian men, it's bucks or shucks.
    Unless you got serious bucks, Asian men might as well just give it up and be like the dufus in FARGO.

    Also, there is more of a cultural factor of sticking together among Hindus and Arab Muslims. In contrast, East Asians in the West tend to be more white-bread than white. They are anemic in their sense of tribalism or bloodlines. Their main identity is status, and that means they will go with anyone to raise their status.

    Brilliant

  248. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    The last Hong Kong movie I enjoyed was “Infernal Affairs” which was ruinously remade as “The Departed.”
     
    LOL. The Departed was a huge improvement over Infernal Affairs. First off, The Departed had a sense of humor. Infernal Affairs was way heavy on the self-serious mopey melodrama. And the plodding score and editing was sleep inducing.

    Look lively, gents!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKIPOV1nIAc

    Rooftop homosexual assignation vs. two guys who want to kill each other:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJhixh0FpN0

    The Departed is the most overrated film of the last 15 years. Just terrible, after school special terrible acting from all the principals.

  249. @Anon
    What really stands out about CRA is not the all-Asian cast. Rather, the movie is strange by Hollywood standards because it's about yellow(or half-yellow) boy meets yellow girl.
    There have been many stories with yellow girls in Hollywood movies, but they were almost always with white men. SAYONARA may have started the trend. There was also COME SEE THE PARADISE, SNOW FALLING ON CEDARS(didn't see), HEAVEN AND EARTH, KARATE KID II, SOY LUCK CLUB, YEAR OF THE DRAGON, and many others.

    Generally, Asian women have been the love things of white men while Asian guys got cast as dork in SIXTEEN CANDLES and the dufus in FARGO. In any male dominated society, it is the desire of the men to conquer women of other races while keeping their own women to themselves. And America used to be a white-male-dominated society. So, while it was sort-of-okay to show white men with other women -- Asians, Squaw women, Tahitians, Mexican women, and even black women -- , it was not okay for white women to be with other men. So, 007 movies had this white guy humping women of all colors, but a white female counterpart didn't exist.

    Every society feels this way. Every empire was about 'we take their women, but they don't take our women'. And this rule held in the US until relatively recently. It held because of white/Jewish male domination of media and institutions. It also held because of white male prestige. White men were naturally seen as the strongest and manliest. They dominated sports and movies and etc.
    So, even without white male domination of institutions, white males felt little threat from most non-white males. Even with total freedom, white women generally preferred white men over Asian men, Hindu men, Mexican men, Arab men. and etc.
    But one exception was the Negro. White guys dominated sports in the past because of institutional discrimination against blacks. Also, when blacks came up with interesting music, the industry got some white guy to do the cross-0ver thing. And even in the age of Muhammad Ali, the most famous boxer on the screen was Rocky.

    But over time, blacks got full access to sports and pop culture. And they demolished white manhood in sports. They out-hollered whites in music. And internet led to white girls trading images of negro dongs on their iphones. So, it led to jungle fever, cucky-wuckery, and next 007 being a Negro. This was supposed to be a blow against 'racism' because black power gained at the expense of old white 'racism'. But it was a new kind of race-ism based on real racial differences. When institutional and social barriers are removed, biological barriers arise. NFL is technically open to all races, but most positions might as well say "Only Negro DNA allowed" and increasing number of white women might has well carry a sign, "I only go Negro" like Milo the homo.

    Now, if white guys have to take the backseat to Negroes who are the new idol of Western Manhood, then it means Asian, Hindu, Mexican, and etc guys have even less prestige as men. What is the typical image of a Meso-American? Guillermo. Hindu guys are always some computer nerd. And Asian guys are like the dufus in FARGO. It's worse for East Asian men than for Mexican men, Hindu men, and Arab men because East Asian having higher standards. As many are well-educated, they want quality women. In contrast, a Mexican guy will go with any senorita as long as she can make tacos. Also, as East Asian women are well-educated, they also want the best, and it's often white males. Notice all the famous Asian women in the US are almost always with white men(or even with black men like Ellen Pao). Also, East Asian women have higher desirability rating than Mexican women, Hindu women, and Arab women. So, they are sought out more by non-Asian men. Also, there is more of a cultural factor of sticking together among Hindus and Arab Muslims. In contrast, East Asians in the West tend to be more white-bread than white. They are anemic in their sense of tribalism or bloodlines. Their main identity is status, and that means they will go with anyone to raise their status.

    Amy Chua wrote about tribalism, but I wonder if that is the main factor in our globalized world. Isn't Primalism or Optimalism the primary forces? After all, if people are so tribal, why are so many non-whites willing to give up their nations, kinfolks, and culture to come to the West and start anew with new constructed identities? Why do most kids of these parents lose their language of origin? Why do they show no interest in their own tribal culture and only indulge in pop culture?
    Also, true tribalism has to be about unity of men and women of a race. But we see alarming rise of jungle fever among white women. And so many Asian women like Chua go with Jewish or white men. And intermarriage among Jews have skyrocketed. Also, Muslims join the US military and serve the War Machine to smash Muslim nations.

    It seems people are driven more by primalism. It is about reaching the optimal midpoint between the individual will to power and the submissive willingness to cower(before the true power). Imagine a pack of wolves where each wolf wants to be the leader. Each tries to optimize its status. So, they fight. But there can be only one winner, so others will have to seek a midpoint between the desire to reach as high as possible and the willingness to cower before the real alpha.
    It's like the scene in EXCALIBUR when Arthur fights with Lancelot. Lancelot is a warrior who will take on anyone. But Arthur draws power from the sword and beats him. And then, Lancelot is humble before Arthur and willing to serve him most loyally. He reached the midpoint between his will to rule and his willingness to serve. (Granted, Arthur won by cheating, and this becomes the basis of what goes wrong with Camelot in the end.) In the US, everyone wants to be the winner. Tony Montana or Gordon Gekko. But most people can't rise to the top. So, they reach as high as possible and then try to serve the uppermost power. Primalism is about optimizing one's individual talent as far as it will go, but when the limit is met, Will to Power gives into Willingness to Cower before the Real Power. And primalism affects the sexes differently, and this undermines tribalism. This may be most pronounced among East Asians where women have high sexual market value and men have low sexual market value.

    So, what is really distinctive about CRA is that the Asian girl goes with an Asian guy. While such is not taboo in Hollywood, it is rare because the general impression is that Asian men aren't exciting. And if Asian women really do have sexual value, they should be matched with men with sexual value, like whites or blacks. Why should Asian female winners go with Asian male losers?

    But then, notice that the guy in CRA has to be superduper rich to get the girl. So, what is the message? It actually conforms to the Hollywood stereotype. For Asian men, it's bucks or shucks.
    Unless you got serious bucks, Asian men might as well just give it up and be like the dufus in FARGO.

    HA haHA your a moron are you even living in the real world , because of kpop and kdramas asians are very popular amognst young women teens to mid age women at the moment dont know in future, I have had many oppurtunities with women especially whites but being asian we never approach women this is why you dont see many asian men and other race pairings, on the other hand white men are becoming incels and atrthritic so you guys are gonna die alone , look around you why are asian kids so happy nowadays they have been getting the eye from a lot of women so this makes the young guys happy , so your story about asian men not being liked is disillusioned

  250. @syonredux

    He’s the star of the movie “Crazy Rich Asians,” not “Crazy Rich Caucasians.” He is not Eurasian either. He is Asian
     
    Dunno:

    Birth Name: Henry Ewan Golding

    Place of Birth: Sarawak, Malaysia

    Date of Birth: 5 February, 1987

    Ethnicity:
    *English (father)
    *Iban Malaysian (mother)
     
    http://ethnicelebs.com/henry-golding

    his mother is most likely a low class naive woman of the night because this is the only kinda of women the skin cancer prone britshit that cant even put a sentence together can acquire .

  251. @Random Smartaleck

    But I strongly suspect this is not because “they all look alike,” it’s because we’re not used to picking up on the subtle differences in Asian faces that we easily pick out in types we’re more familiar with.
     
    I don't doubt that's true, but the uniformity of hair color/type and eye color among East Asians certainly does complicate easily distinguishing them in groups.

    Thick straight black hair and black brown eyes signify that biologically we are better than light skin light eyes light hair.

  252. @Bucky
    The word “oriental” was much more accurate and descriptive.

    The word “oriental” was much more accurate and descriptive.

    Unfortunately, it’s inherently dismissive of China’s position at the center of the world.

    Kind of like those nasty Germans using Ferro instead of Greenwich. Everyone knows the Prime Meridian belongs in ChristianiaOsloVienna Lisbon CadizBudapestParis.

    http://elte.prompt.hu/sites/default/files/tananyagok/MapGridsAndDatums/ch02s02.html

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Popular_Science_Monthly/Volume_15/June_1879/Selecting_a_First_Meridian

    https://decodingsatan.blogspot.com/2016/05/paris-meridian.html

  253. @The Alarmist
    I wonder if they make Ben Wa balls.

    I wonder if they make Ben Wa balls.

    I always want to spell that B-E-N-O-I-T for some reason.

    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XWgoJT1xPU
  254. @Mr. Anon

    Edward Said wrote a book called ORIENTALISM.
     
    Yeah. And? It had nothing to do with east asians.

    Edward Said wrote a book called ORIENTALISM.

    Yeah. And? It had nothing to do with east asians.

    But it was quite popular with pederasts.

  255. @Q
    Nobody's stopping the Indians from making their own version: Crazy Poor Indians.

    To be fair to the writer of that Guardian article, in the context of Singapore the title Crazy Rich Indians would in fact be more apt: Singaporean Indians have higher average and median household incomes than the Singaporean Chinese, with the Malay community being the poorest. Educationally, the Chinese do best, followed by the Indians, with the Malays lagging behind quite significantly. See the following link and its official government sources:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#Average_household_monthly_income

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Singaporean Indians have higher average and median household incomes than the Singaporean Chinese
     
    No one is in doubt as to who is in charge in Singapore - of the government, the military, the state-enterprises, and the major fortunes.
    , @Escher
    I wonder how much that statistic is skewed by the recent Indian immigrants, who are heavily skewed towards higher earning professions like banking, R&D, IT..
  256. @Edward
    To be fair to the writer of that Guardian article, in the context of Singapore the title Crazy Rich Indians would in fact be more apt: Singaporean Indians have higher average and median household incomes than the Singaporean Chinese, with the Malay community being the poorest. Educationally, the Chinese do best, followed by the Indians, with the Malays lagging behind quite significantly. See the following link and its official government sources:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#Average_household_monthly_income

    Singaporean Indians have higher average and median household incomes than the Singaporean Chinese

    No one is in doubt as to who is in charge in Singapore – of the government, the military, the state-enterprises, and the major fortunes.

    • Replies: @Edward
    On the whole I agree, but Singaporean Indians - at least according to Wikipedia - do appear to be overrepresented in important areas. Despite making up 7.4% of the population, Indians have constituted 25% of Singaporean Presidents and 27% of Deputy Prime Ministers, and currently make up 26% of Cabinet ministers and 14% of the Supreme Court Judges. In 2006, Forbes compiled a list of the 40 richest people/families, with Indians making up 10% of the list.

    That said, there has never been an ethnically Indian Prime Minister. A very conspicuous absence.

    I've only ever known two Singaporeans, one who was ethnically Chinese and one who was ethnically Indian. Both came from incredibly wealthy families. Their anecdotes are at least consistent with the hypothesis that is the Malay community which is the most "oppressed" (in today's parlance). Even so, there is a significant low-income community of Indians in Singapore too.

  257. @Mitchell Porter
    OT I just learned that the black writer N.K. Jemisin has won three Hugo Awards for best (SF) novel, in a row, for each of the books in a trilogy. I am very out of touch with contemporary SF - certainly compared to when I was a teenager - but the Hugo is awarded by the popular vote at a major fan convention (as opposed to e.g. the Nebula, which is voted on by writers themselves), and I know that in recent years there was a "Puppies" movement organized by people like Vox Day, against a "progressive" tendency to favor "diverse" authors, or some such thing.

    The point about Jemisin's triple win is that (at the Hugos) there has never been anything like, every book in a series winning Best Novel for its year. Either her trilogy must be one of the very best works of SF ever, or there must be a real scarcity of good writing right now. But in the same period, she only got one of the Nebulas for best novel, and the fact that her books came out one per year, so her triple win could occur in successive years, seems artificially neat.

    So this certainly sounds like another case (like Obama, like Beyonce?) where the enthusiasm for black talent has to do with the blackness as well as the talent.

    Have been out of touch with SF for a long time…. wonder how her works compare to the Foundation trilogy, for example.

  258. @Edward
    To be fair to the writer of that Guardian article, in the context of Singapore the title Crazy Rich Indians would in fact be more apt: Singaporean Indians have higher average and median household incomes than the Singaporean Chinese, with the Malay community being the poorest. Educationally, the Chinese do best, followed by the Indians, with the Malays lagging behind quite significantly. See the following link and its official government sources:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#Average_household_monthly_income

    I wonder how much that statistic is skewed by the recent Indian immigrants, who are heavily skewed towards higher earning professions like banking, R&D, IT..

  259. @Bucky
    Because we are in an era of decadence and everyone is out of ideas. American movies don’t entire suck either, at least compared to Asian movies which are overly melodramatic or are overly explicitly political (Chinese victimhood at the hands of the Japs is a big one).

    American movies don’t entire suck either,……..

    Iron Man, Spiderman, This-man, That-man – formulaic drivel pitched at 12 year olds.

    American movies have become really crappy. They suck. Big time.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Iron Man, Spiderman, This-man, That-man – formulaic drivel pitched at 12 year olds.
     
    I liked Iron Man. RDJ was quite compelling, and the idea of building a suit of armor as therapy was interesting.

    American movies have become really crappy. They suck. Big time.
     
    Dunno. I can think of some good ones made since the turn of the millennium :The Grand Budapest Hotel, Zodiac, No Country for Old Men, Mulholland Drive, Adaptation, True Grit, .....
  260. I wonder why nobody has pointed out the obvious: Crazy Rich Asians is about discouraging Asian girls from breeding with White males. In the book, Rachel is berated for having only slept with Whites. And the girlfriend doing the berating actually tells her that “Jews are not White” – whatever one can make of that…

    I can imagine a movie plot about a White girl being bullied into not dating any Black men would go down well in Hollywood circles, wouldn’t it? So this is yet another not-so-subtle assault on the much-hated cis hetero white male by reducing his sexual market opportunities.

    On a Steve Sailer intersectional note, the ultra-discreet family of the male hero scientifically confirms the Thomas Piketty conspiracy theory that vast pools of inherited wealth remain hidden from his data set.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    In the book, the zillionaire Young family is unknown to the Singapore masses. In the movie they are giant celebrities.
  261. @Mr. Nontye
    I wonder why nobody has pointed out the obvious: Crazy Rich Asians is about discouraging Asian girls from breeding with White males. In the book, Rachel is berated for having only slept with Whites. And the girlfriend doing the berating actually tells her that "Jews are not White" - whatever one can make of that...

    I can imagine a movie plot about a White girl being bullied into not dating any Black men would go down well in Hollywood circles, wouldn't it? So this is yet another not-so-subtle assault on the much-hated cis hetero white male by reducing his sexual market opportunities.

    On a Steve Sailer intersectional note, the ultra-discreet family of the male hero scientifically confirms the Thomas Piketty conspiracy theory that vast pools of inherited wealth remain hidden from his data set.

    In the book, the zillionaire Young family is unknown to the Singapore masses. In the movie they are giant celebrities.

  262. @Twinkie

    Singaporean Indians have higher average and median household incomes than the Singaporean Chinese
     
    No one is in doubt as to who is in charge in Singapore - of the government, the military, the state-enterprises, and the major fortunes.

    On the whole I agree, but Singaporean Indians – at least according to Wikipedia – do appear to be overrepresented in important areas. Despite making up 7.4% of the population, Indians have constituted 25% of Singaporean Presidents and 27% of Deputy Prime Ministers, and currently make up 26% of Cabinet ministers and 14% of the Supreme Court Judges. In 2006, Forbes compiled a list of the 40 richest people/families, with Indians making up 10% of the list.

    That said, there has never been an ethnically Indian Prime Minister. A very conspicuous absence.

    I’ve only ever known two Singaporeans, one who was ethnically Chinese and one who was ethnically Indian. Both came from incredibly wealthy families. Their anecdotes are at least consistent with the hypothesis that is the Malay community which is the most “oppressed” (in today’s parlance). Even so, there is a significant low-income community of Indians in Singapore too.

  263. @Mr. Anon

    American movies don’t entire suck either,........
     
    Iron Man, Spiderman, This-man, That-man - formulaic drivel pitched at 12 year olds.

    American movies have become really crappy. They suck. Big time.

    Iron Man, Spiderman, This-man, That-man – formulaic drivel pitched at 12 year olds.

    I liked Iron Man. RDJ was quite compelling, and the idea of building a suit of armor as therapy was interesting.

    American movies have become really crappy. They suck. Big time.

    Dunno. I can think of some good ones made since the turn of the millennium :The Grand Budapest Hotel, Zodiac, No Country for Old Men, Mulholland Drive, Adaptation, True Grit, …..

  264. I have a dream that rich people will one day live in a world where they will not be judged by the color of their skin

  265. @LFM
    The thing is that in Britain, where the Guardian article was published, 'Asian' means a person whose ethnic origins are in the Indian sub-continent, as it was once known. (Even there it includes a wide range of complexions, eye colours, and facial features.) So the problem here is with English vs American usage of the term Asian. Sangeetha Thanapal is feeling left out.

    It’s obvious if you think about it historically, since Britain didn’t have Chinese laborers building their railroads. Their first significant society-wide experiences with cultural interaction and migration involving that continent were with Indians. Which means they need another word to disambiguate when they’re actually talking about East Asians specifically — “Oriental” never really acquired a problematic un-PC taint over there because it’s the only one-word term that carries that information content without over-specifying a particular country of origin. The next most informative alternative would be “Mongoloid”, but that word is tinged with *scientific* racism so it was broadly eradicated across most Western countries by goodthinking professionals.

    This doesn’t stop Chinese-Americans who visit England from coming back and complaining, “They’re so racist! They called me ‘Oriental’!”

  266. @Reg Cæsar

    I wonder if they make Ben Wa balls.

     

    I always want to spell that B-E-N-O-I-T for some reason.

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