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My Review of Charles Murray's New Book "Facing Reality"
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From my book review in Taki’s Magazine:

Last Men Standing: Charles Murray vs. Ibram X. Kendi
Steve Sailer

June 16, 2021

The media-declared racial reckoning has elicited from Charles Murray, coauthor of 1994’s epochal The Bell Curve, an important rebuttal: a short, lucid book entitled Facing Reality: Two Truths about Race in America.

In January 2020, Murray published a long, scholarly book, Human Diversity: The Biology of Gender, Race, and Class, a meta-meta-analysis of the latest meta-analyses in the human sciences. It received virtually zero publicity.

Now he’s back with a more polemical, less daunting read about the essential factors influencing society: intelligence and violence.

The two realities that are fundamental to understanding the headlines of 2021 are that, on average, blacks and (to a lesser extent) Hispanics are more crime-prone and less smart than whites (much less Asians).

Lately, though, these facts seem inconceivable to most conformist Americans. Still, lying is bad for the soul.

Read the whole thing there.

… Despite its short length, Facing Reality uncovers some important data that I’ve never seen before. For example, as I’ve often complained, the well-known FBI crime statistics inextricably confuse white and Latino criminals so that it’s been best just to look at black vs. nonblack rates. For instance, blacks were 8.2 times as likely as nonblacks to be known murder offenders in the federal 2019 stats, but we can’t figure out from the FBI numbers the black-to-white ratio that everybody is most interested in.

Murray, however, has uncovered newly available arrest statistics from the Open Data Initiative by race (with Hispanics usually broken out) and type of crime for thirteen cities, including New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Washington, D.C. …

Latinos are arrested for murder about five times more often per capita than whites, while blacks are about twenty times more likely than whites to be arrested for murder. …

The Hispanic murder rate is atrocious, but, despite roughly equal levels of poverty, the black murder rate is still four times worse. It seems reasonable to me to ask blacks to cut their murder rate by 75 percent, down to the Latino level. Yet, apparently, nobody else does. Instead, The Establishment has taken to apologizing to blacks for their not being above the law.

I suspect the national black-to-white murder arrest rate ratio is less than 20 to 1 because these 13 towns tend to be fairly expensive ones where white lowlifes can’t afford to live, while black lowlifes tend to live in subsidized housing in conveniently situated central city locations.

But, still …

 
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  1. Lying made be bad for the soul, but it can be great for the pocketbook and ego!

    • Replies: @Papinian
    @Redneck farmer

    What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world, but lose his soul?

  2. Typo in Taki:

    Link from “1000 on his SAT” is wrong. Perhaps you intended:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2019/10/14/anti-racist-revelations-ibram-x-kendi/

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Thanks.

  3. @Anon
    Typo in Taki:

    Link from "1000 on his SAT" is wrong. Perhaps you intended:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2019/10/14/anti-racist-revelations-ibram-x-kendi/

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Thanks.

  4. Anon[428] • Disclaimer says:

    Bizarrely, the book has endnotes, and it also has additional online notes.

    For instance, for chapter 1 the note indicated by superscript numeral 1 in the text is:

    1.  In 2001, the Gallup polling organization found that the average American estimated that 32 percent of the population was Black. The correct answer was 12.3 percent….

    The online PDF file has notes indicated by page number and quoted text. For chapter 1 the first such note is:

    Page 1: It has been our fate as a nation not to have ideologies, but to be one.

    This quote is attributed to Richard Hofstadter in many books and articles ….

    I wish that for the Kindle version they had just put both sets of notes in the book. Also, PDF files are obsolete. Who prints files? Online reading is best done with an HTML file; on the Kindle you want an ebook formatting. PDF files are good for sewing patterns where trans-device dimensional integrity is required, and that’s about it.

    • Replies: @res
    @Anon

    In my experience PDF files are useful because they tend to be a more faithful representation of the book (for example, same page numbers, more consistent handling of graphics). Perhaps not as good for reading on an ebook reader, but hardly obsolete IMHO.

    , @anon
    @Anon

    If you don't like PDF it is trivial to convert that file to HTML, MOBI, EPUB or other formats, plus there are editors for all those formats.

    Just. Search. The. Web.

    This is a non-issue. It's not even a first-world problem.

    , @Jack D
    @Anon

    I agree that PDF is not the best book format but they are not obsolete and have many other uses besides sewing patterns. For example, legal documents.

  5. Lately, though, these facts seem inconceivable to most conformist Americans. Still, lying is bad for the soul.

    That includes lying to one’s self too. Most Americans think being called names is worse for the soul than lying to one’s self is, apparently. For some of them, another explanation is that they don’t care about their souls and don’t mind selling them.

  6. Mr. Sailer, if you have read VDare’s occasional contributor F. Roger Devlin’s quick review of this book (right up top today on this site), can you tell us if you agree with his conclusion? Mr. Devlin has no problem with Charles Murray’s statistics and all that, but he doesn’t agree with Mr. Murray’s opinion that White people’s getting together in solidarity to fight all this will be “a disaster”. What do you think?

    Secondly, I now wonder if the proprietor here, Mr. Unz, will have any type of correction or argument regarding the Hispanic crime rate, per Mr. Murray’s book. I can see a lot of comments coming on this.

    I would hope the readers/commenters here know where I stand on both of these questions.

    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    @Achmed E. Newman

    We do, Ach. We do indeed.

  7. I can’t see any sound reason to attack – or even criticize Charles Murray’s facts and arguments. His writing in the face of societal reality pretty much boils down to: This and this is so and so (he as an author is thus very close to the virtue of humbleness).
    Ibram X. Kendi on the other hand could be looked upon as the one who makes all kinds of mistakes but is still respected because there are indeed reasons to be angry and feel bad. Whether Ibram X. Kendi would want to see the quite openly stretched out common ground between him and – Steve Sailer’s hints at some practical consequences of Murray’s findings like calm down, black men. Don’t brag about being dangerous and reckless and – murderous, etc.leave the Gangsta-role model behind, it is doing you no good , try to behave at school …- whether Ibram X. Kendi would want to embrace such insights is an open – and interesting…question.

    • Replies: @Seneca44
    @Dieter Kief

    Totally agree and I would pay good money to see Murray vs. Kendi in an open debate. I seriously think such an event could be well monetized on something like a pay per view platform.

    Replies: @Currahee

    , @J.Ross
    @Dieter Kief

    There are almost no reasons to feel angry or bad unless you are considering our totally artificial, voluntarily pursued unforced errors, like trapdooring cops, agitating blacks, inviting cartels, killing pipeline jobs, or overprinting money. Kendi is angry about things that make no sense to be angry about, like being able to cross the street properly.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @anon

    , @AndrewR
    @Dieter Kief

    Kendi has explicitly said "there is nothing wrong with black people," meaning: all the problems black people face are due to white people. So no I don't think he would endorse boomers telling black people to act more like white people.

    Edit: wow someone posted a tweet in this thread where he comes right out and says that.


    "It’s important to teach children that the cause of racial inequality and inequity in our society is the result of structural racism, not the behaviours or the cultures of those people of colour on the lower end” of inequities.

    He and his demonic supporters treat black people as if they have zero agency.

    , @Charlesz Martel
    @Dieter Kief

    "Steve Sailer’s hints at some practical consequences of Murray’s findings like calm down, black men. Don’t brag about being dangerous and reckless and – murderous, etc. – leave the Gangsta-role model behind, it is doing you no good , try to behave at school …"



    The simple reason that blacks will not change their behavior is because it gets them sexual success with black women, hispanic women, white women, and asian women, in varying degrees. Being seen as a "Bad Ass" is catnip to women. What man on earth voluntarily gives up behavior that leads to a higher percentage of sexual success?
    If we seriously wanted to change black men's behavior we would work on trying to change what primarily black women (and others) find sexually alluring.

    Good luck with that.

    I commented on this last night. My comment seems to have been vaporized. Pity. It was better written.

    Paging Whiskey!

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Dieter Kief

  8. Murray is very outspoken that high crime low IQ is an established fact about Blacks that need not be argued about. Refreshingly clear language. Not the usual whining begging.
    Lengthy proof of the obvious is a bit tedious, but necessary for the unitiated.

    And, of course, always a bit of cautious hedging to keep the rest of respectability of „civilized“ society.
    Compulsively, he must mention that these averages mean nothing for an individual that is in front of you. Each individual must be judged not by his race.

    If he advised coeds not to get drunk when near black college athletes, then he would have lost the rest of acceptability of our society.

    But Murray speaks most of the race realist truth.

    A great book. Available in audible, too.

    • Replies: @Achilleus
    @SINCERITY.net


    If he advised coeds not to get drunk when near black college athletes, then he would have lost the rest of acceptability of our society.
     
    Coeds?
  9. Are cops just racistly arresting blacks for ticky-tack property offenses like, say, taking an extra newspaper from the rack?

    I understand your point, but I don’t think this is even a thing anymore.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @ScarletNumber

    Indeed, consider Prop 47. I seem to recall similar legislation elsewhere too. (Baltimore ignores entire categories of crime.)



    "They know what they're doing. They will bring in calculators and get all the way up to the $950 limit," Michelin told Fox News, adding that "one person will go into a store, fill up their backpack, come out, dump it out and go right back in and do it all over again."

     

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-prop-47-shoplifting-theft-crime-statewide
  10. Great column. Are there any stats that compare the crime/murder rates of poor whites, blacks, and hispanics? I’m guessing a standard woke response to this general discussion would be to say that black rates are higher than white rates because a much higher percentage of blacks are below the poverty line than whites.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @JimDandy

    Blacks and Hispanics are quite similar in income and wealth, but blacks commit far more crime. If blacks cut their crime rate to the Hispanic level, this country would be vastly better off.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @anon, @Matttt, @Marty T

    , @Some Guy
    @JimDandy

    https://static.prisonpolicy.org/images/NYT_raceandclass_Mar_19_2018.png

    , @J1234
    @JimDandy


    I’m guessing a standard woke response to this general discussion would be to say that black rates are higher than white rates because a much higher percentage of blacks are below the poverty line than whites.
     
    I'd say that's a pretty good guess. I had a similar discussion via email with a (white leftist) journalism professor at a university back east about five years ago concerning the rate of black unwed birth vs. white unwed birth. He was trying to convince his students that there was no difference between the two once you considered economic status, income, etc. This was cloaked in a contrived "journalistic principle" that statistics can deceive, which is true, but the irony was that he was also using statistics to create his own deeper counter-deception.

    His deception was - in part - presenting his carefully selected statistics as establishing an irrefutable chain of causality: first comes poverty, then comes unwed mothers as a result. There is some truth to the correlation, but both factors can be (and probably are) caused other factors. Also, the out of wedlock birth rate for native US blacks is 75% or more, and has been for years, yet only 25% of native US blacks live below the poverty line, so there are other things going on.

    Another important consideration in out of wedlock birth is the nature of unwed fatherhood. How involved are bio-fathers in the lives of young boys in this situation? How likely is there to be a legitimate step-father later on? How many different children by different partners does an unwed father have?

    All of this segues into crime stats pretty nicely for the obvious reasons. To me, generally speaking, the lives of blacks are a jazz riff and the lives of whites are a cantata. One is experienced in and for the moment and is quite extemporaneous, while the other is orchestrated and composed. Family life and crime statistics flow from this. It's likely that this is the reason BLM hates the nuclear family so much.

    Replies: @JimDandy

  11. Great review. I shall be pointing it a few Wokels in my life,

  12. @JimDandy
    Great column. Are there any stats that compare the crime/murder rates of poor whites, blacks, and hispanics? I'm guessing a standard woke response to this general discussion would be to say that black rates are higher than white rates because a much higher percentage of blacks are below the poverty line than whites.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Some Guy, @J1234

    Blacks and Hispanics are quite similar in income and wealth, but blacks commit far more crime. If blacks cut their crime rate to the Hispanic level, this country would be vastly better off.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @Steve Sailer

    Thanks. Yeah, that's a powerful and succinct rebuttal to the argument I was talking about.

    , @anon
    @Steve Sailer

    Chicago is a lab experiment in the the criminality of Blacks vs Hispanics/Mexicans. Blacks, having elected a black mayor, Harold Washington in 1982, began seeing themselves rapidly replaced/deplaced by Mexicans. We can never be sure if it was deliberate or just happened.

    But the city is now very roughly 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 Black/White/Hispanic. And Washington was the last Black mayor, since current mayor, lesbian Lori Lightfoot is more gay than black.

    Everyone prefers a Mexican underclass to Blacks. Is that the root cause of open borders? Or just an unintended benefit.

    But it is striking. Pilsen is a major Hispanic area and is OK. It is literally vibrant, as there is plenty of street food and commerce. Is a "food desert" even conceivable in a Mexican neighborhood? Whereas, Black areas are surprisingly devoid of commercial activity.

    Replies: @anon

    , @Matttt
    @Steve Sailer

    It's hard to shake the suspicion that, in the U.S., Mexican violent crime is low because the Mexican gangs want it to be low. It's kind of a scary thought. What happens when the Mexican gangs decide that homicidal violence is in their best interest? Black gangs shoot up house parties; Mexican gangs hang bodies from highway overpasses.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

    , @Marty T
    @Steve Sailer

    Well we know that's not happening unless we go back to Giuliani style policing on steroids. I think we'd have more luck getting the Hispanic rate down a bit. Maybe we can find what Tucson Hispanics are doing right.

    For blacks, if it's not back to broken windows on steroids, we need to cut our losses and bring them back home, to where "white racism" doesn't exist. I can live with worse basketball in a safer country.

  13. I want America to return to the ideal of treating people as individuals

    That would be stupid. And it was never true. It’s dumb to act like it was.

    Those of us who want to defend the American creed

    This is Holy Roller stuff. The American creed? This is the mentality of “defending the faith”. CivNats push a form of utopianism.

    If you let Murray and all the HBD’ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There’s an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @RichardTaylor

    RichardTaylor asked:


    If you let Murray and all the HBD’ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There’s an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?
     
    You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.

    This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.


    It is a fight between the ruling parasitic verbalist overclass versus the productive citizens of this country.

    The ruling elite are using Blacks and Hispanics as pawns.

    Revolver News has uncovered evidence that some of the "leaders" of the January 6 "Insurrection" may have been federal agents provocateurs.

    I am beginning to strongly suspect that the same is true of some of you in the "White nationalist movement."

    Or maybe you are just useful dupes.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @RichardTaylor, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Redmen, @res, @Prester John, @GeneralRipper, @anon

    , @James N. Kennett
    @RichardTaylor



    I want America to return to the ideal of treating people as individuals
     
    ...
    If you let Murray and all the HBD’ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There’s an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?
     
    Racial loyalty is a dead end. Apart from any moral considerations, you will not get most whites to practise it.

    The very best we can do is to treat people as individuals. This gives us the freedom not to sanctify a person who was a career criminal, armed robber, and drug addict. It gives us the freedom not to grant "genius" awards to mediocre writers such as Ta-Nehisi Coates. In short, it allows us to assess people not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

    The present day is not like this. If (say) 1% of whites are doctors but only 0.05% of blacks, we are required to believe that somehow white people have suppressed the black people who could have become doctors. And so we have diversity hiring for medical school. In these circumstances who in their right mind would choose a black surgeon?

    Replies: @RichardTaylor

    , @Anon
    @RichardTaylor

    Richard --

    You seem very down on this "treating everyone as equal" (unless they have shown themselves to be unequal) thing. I think you know how deeply I respect you and your opinions... but let's START at least with the very reasonable demand that we stop kowtowing to the gods of black supremacy. Nobody should find that objectionable.

    Then after we have established again in schools, government policies, etc., that programs that create black supremacy is contrary to (and I will use those words) "the American creed," then (and only then!) will we become free to exercise our rights to freedom of association, etc., to hang out with the types we want to. We can (and should!) have racial loyalty *privately*, but let's all be united in pushing for ending race-based government initiatives that are racially shame white children while promoting black supremacy -- and the way to do that is fighting for government race neutrality.

    Replies: @RichardTaylor, @Reg Cæsar

  14. @Steve Sailer
    @JimDandy

    Blacks and Hispanics are quite similar in income and wealth, but blacks commit far more crime. If blacks cut their crime rate to the Hispanic level, this country would be vastly better off.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @anon, @Matttt, @Marty T

    Thanks. Yeah, that’s a powerful and succinct rebuttal to the argument I was talking about.

  15. Baltimore just 6.3?!

    • Replies: @Some Guy
    @International Jew

    Most of the normal whites must've left Baltimore by now.

    , @kaganovitch
    @International Jew

    For a possible explanation see La Griffe du Lion's essay

    http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/city.htm

    , @anon
    @International Jew

    Baltimore just 6.3?!

    Not a real surprise. De-industrialization, such as closing the Bethlehem Steel plant, has bad effects on those who remain.

    , @AnotherDad
    @International Jew


    Baltimore just 6.3?!
     
    Snitches get stitches.
  16. DC seems to arrest a lot more people based on that chart. I guess the elites still like to have their law and order, at least for themselves. Still, it is worth noting that the Hispanics in the DC area tend to be Salvadoran, which in part explains the high arrest rate.

    • Replies: @Frank McGar
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    MS-13s are all over the DC/MD/VA area.

  17. My vague impression going back to the 1970s in the San Fernando Valley (a surprising number of my memories from that decade involve my long search for an uncuttable bicycle lock) is that Mexicans used to have a worse thievery problem than they do now.

    In my very first time on the West Coast we drove to Venice Beach and parked to look around. Immediately on getting out of the car, I heard someone yell, “Stop that guy! He just tried to steal my bike!” followed by the biggest Mexican I’d ever seen running at breakneck speed to get away from a white guy chasing him.

    I vaguely thought about helping, but realized that in order to stop the Mexican the best I could do would be to dive into his legs and trip him; he was far too large and meaty for me to tackle above the waist. (He was about the size of a “small” linebacker in the NFL, and was moving surprisingly fast.)

    Also, didn’t Cheech and Chong have jokes about Chicanos of their era having sticky fingers or being accused as such?

  18. Murray’s book seems like a late antiquity old Roman trying to warn about the dangers of letting the Goths into the empire and how the Roman aristocrats really should get the senate back in charge, get rid of the emperors, and start serving in the army themselves again.

    In other words, too little, too late, but hey, at least there was proof that some people weren’t crazy or stupid about why the empire was about to collapse.

  19. @RichardTaylor

    I want America to return to the ideal of treating people as individuals
     
    That would be stupid. And it was never true. It's dumb to act like it was.

    Those of us who want to defend the American creed
     
    This is Holy Roller stuff. The American creed? This is the mentality of "defending the faith". CivNats push a form of utopianism.

    If you let Murray and all the HBD'ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There's an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @James N. Kennett, @Anon

    RichardTaylor asked:

    If you let Murray and all the HBD’ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There’s an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?

    You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.

    This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.

    It is a fight between the ruling parasitic verbalist overclass versus the productive citizens of this country.

    The ruling elite are using Blacks and Hispanics as pawns.

    Revolver News has uncovered evidence that some of the “leaders” of the January 6 “Insurrection” may have been federal agents provocateurs.

    I am beginning to strongly suspect that the same is true of some of you in the “White nationalist movement.”

    Or maybe you are just useful dupes.

    • Agree: Redmen
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @PhysicistDave

    Very naive.

    It is true that "ruling elites" in the US, now, do not have real ethnic/national loyalty (unlike in the past). And this differentiates US & affluent Western Europe from every land stretching from Slovakia to Japan.

    But, it is also true that US working & middle classes have nothing in common that would cross racial/ethnic lines. It has always been so. Dynamics between race/people & class almost always, everywhere, favors people, and not a class. While it is simplistic to think that history is a history of class struggle (Marx) or race struggle (Hitler) - as a rule, Hitler was closer to truth than Marx.

    Even famous class struggles (English civil war, French revolution, "Russian" revolution) always end up with a transformed blood-and-soil people, and not in some trans-racial/ethnic harmony.

    In the US (Brazil, Colombia,..), various races function as different peoples. What these peoples should learn is to coexist, if they can. But they are different American peoples, because the American people ceased to exist long time ago.

    Replies: @vhrm, @Peter Akuleyev, @PhysicistDave

    , @RichardTaylor
    @PhysicistDave

    This is version 23 of the claim, "whatever is going on, RACE has nothing to do with it.

    Of course, this message is only given to White audiences.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    @PhysicistDave

    Is this the part where you tell us some of your best friends are black?

    , @Redmen
    @PhysicistDave

    I am still at a loss to understand the QAnon phenomenon. It seems that it has the FBI (or other deep state security agency) finger prints all over it. But so little has been discussed or investigated about it, even in the alternative media.

    Tucker Carlson covered the Revolver piece last night. He's definitely moving in the right direction.

    Replies: @RichardTaylor, @Harry Baldwin

    , @res
    @PhysicistDave

    Thanks for that Revolver News link.

    , @Prester John
    @PhysicistDave

    "Revolver News has uncovered evidence that some of the “leaders” of the January 6 “Insurrection” may have been federal agents provocateurs."

    Carlson had somebody on his show from Revolver during which they discussed the findings. Not sure if this is conclusive yet but if it is, it would not surprise. It's an old police-state trick that's been around for decades.

    , @GeneralRipper
    @PhysicistDave

    When the native born white Americans are gone, America will be gone, you bullshitting race traitor cunt.

    When the native born white Frenchmen are gone, France will be gone.

    When the native born white Irish are gone, Ireland will be gone.

    When the native born white English are gone, England will be gone.

    etc...etc...etc

    Richard Taylor is correct, as usual.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @profnasty

    , @anon
    @PhysicistDave


    You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.
     
    This is a stale bromide. The ruling trash don't divide and conquer; they exploit and profit. Racial divisions and conflict aren't created by the elite. Rather, those antagonisms are pre-existing, self-evident consequences of forcing different races under the same geopolitical umbrella, which the elite leverage for their benefit. These naturally emergent racial divisions can be inflamed or suppressed, but never summoned out of thin air by a Deep State focus group.

    This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.
     
    Unfortunately, it is, as long as Whites and blacks have to share the same lebensraum.

    It is a fight between the ruling parasitic verbalist overclass versus the productive citizens of this country.
     
    It's that, too. A multi-pronged fight is not an impossibility.

    The ruling elite are using Blacks and Hispanics as pawns.
     
    Which the elite can easily do because blacks and hispanics are behaviorally different from Whites, and have different life outcomes, causing racial resentments and a pliable audience that a malicious overlord party would have no trouble enlisting as foot soldiers for the elite's cause.

    I am beginning to strongly suspect that the same is true of some of you in the “White nationalist movement.”

    Or maybe you are just useful dupes.
     

    Maybe you should stick to physics and leave the common sense grasp of reality to those who aren't deracinated IQ assortating fetishists.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

  20. I like Sailer’s theory on Latino crime rates improving. It may have something to do with proximity to negroes as well. When I lived in Marin there was a Mexican colony in San Rafael but they all worked as landscapers, construction or the restaurant industry and there were no negroes around them. Thus no crime. OTOH across the bridge in San Francisco there were Latino gangs probably formed in self defense as Latino and negro communities were intermingled.

    I now see the same thing today in Florida. Where Latinos live apart from negroes they don’t have gangs. Where they don’t they do. Maybe we should have a tattoo index to judge the crime potential of Latinos. Where Latino’s are heavily tattooed they have been contaminated by the negro prison culture.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @UNIT472

    Unit, maybe there should be a tattoo index for all races, used to indicate people to just stay away from. Today at the bank, there was a guy with crew cut and a normal male voice, with his back toward us, wearing a sun dress. (Nice pattern, BTW.) Me and the bank guy in his cube were smirking. I said "hey, be careful, maybe that guy is from corporate making sure you all are treating the customers right." Oh, what was the point? He had a bunch of tattoos on his back - it was a sun dress, if you recall.

  21. @PhysicistDave
    @RichardTaylor

    RichardTaylor asked:


    If you let Murray and all the HBD’ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There’s an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?
     
    You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.

    This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.


    It is a fight between the ruling parasitic verbalist overclass versus the productive citizens of this country.

    The ruling elite are using Blacks and Hispanics as pawns.

    Revolver News has uncovered evidence that some of the "leaders" of the January 6 "Insurrection" may have been federal agents provocateurs.

    I am beginning to strongly suspect that the same is true of some of you in the "White nationalist movement."

    Or maybe you are just useful dupes.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @RichardTaylor, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Redmen, @res, @Prester John, @GeneralRipper, @anon

    Very naive.

    It is true that “ruling elites” in the US, now, do not have real ethnic/national loyalty (unlike in the past). And this differentiates US & affluent Western Europe from every land stretching from Slovakia to Japan.

    But, it is also true that US working & middle classes have nothing in common that would cross racial/ethnic lines. It has always been so. Dynamics between race/people & class almost always, everywhere, favors people, and not a class. While it is simplistic to think that history is a history of class struggle (Marx) or race struggle (Hitler) – as a rule, Hitler was closer to truth than Marx.

    Even famous class struggles (English civil war, French revolution, “Russian” revolution) always end up with a transformed blood-and-soil people, and not in some trans-racial/ethnic harmony.

    In the US (Brazil, Colombia,..), various races function as different peoples. What these peoples should learn is to coexist, if they can. But they are different American peoples, because the American people ceased to exist long time ago.

    • Replies: @vhrm
    @Bardon Kaldian


    But, it is also true that US working & middle classes have nothing in common that would cross racial/ethnic lines. It has always been so.
     
    Eh, does anyone really care about white sub-categories in the US currently? Italians vs Irish vs Germans vs WASP ethnicities was (to some degree) a thing in history. Not so much now.

    https://youtu.be/aM5bfWrkdRo?t=55
    , @Peter Akuleyev
    @Bardon Kaldian

    It is true that “ruling elites” in the US, now, do not have real ethnic/national loyalty (unlike in the past).

    This has been the general rule in Europe since the Romans. Aristocrats feel loyalty for other aristocrats and just feel sort of entitled to rule whoever is unlucky enough to be living on their property. The Habsburgs were the most obvious example, but England‘s beloved reigning monarch is an ethnic German married to a German whose father was King of Greece. For a short while in the 20th Century the elites decided to go along with nationalism but after two wars and a lot of aristocrats getting killed they have mostly decided that nationalism is not for them - caste loyalty is what matters. Even Russian elites are pretty poor at ethnic loyalty when push comes to shove. That is the one great advantage of the Chinese - their ruling elites will actually work to further the interests of the Chinese people as a whole.

    , @PhysicistDave
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Bardon Kaldian wrote to me:


    But, it is also true that US working & middle classes have nothing in common that would cross racial/ethnic lines. It has always been so.
     
    Well, let's see... nothing in common except for the fact that they are countrymen. And, oh yeah, the fact that they share a common language and common culture. And that they are all exploited by the (largely White) parasitic verbalist overclass. And that they want to live decent lives for themselves and their families.

    But except for all that...

    BK also wrote:

    While it is simplistic to think that history is a history of class struggle (Marx) or race struggle (Hitler) – as a rule, Hitler was closer to truth than Marx.
     
    So, now the mask comes off.

    I do really wonder if our White nationalist friends are witting tools of the ruling elite? Or are they just attracted to the homo-erotic aspects of Nazism?

    Let's take your comment seriously: exactly how did the racial solidarity thing work for Hitler? Did all the "Aryans" in England and Norway and the USA rally to support Hitler? Or did everyone rally to support his native country? Sort of like us civnats?

    I am not advocating class analysis along the lines of that Johnny-come-lately faker, Karl Marx. Class analysis originated among nineteenth-century libertarians who drew the same distinction I am drawing between the productive members of society and the parasites who use the state to live off the productive members.

    BK also wrote:

    In the US (Brazil, Colombia,..), various races function as different peoples. What these peoples should learn is to coexist, if they can.
     
    The ruling elite does not want us to get along: divide et impera.

    And White nationalists are falling into their trap.

    White nationalists are tools of the ruling elite.

    Replies: @jsm, @BlackFlag

  22. Anon[252] • Disclaimer says:

    I like this part of the book, accompanying a couple of graphs showing the overlapping race-IQ Bell curves, unadjusted and adjusted for population:

    The top figure shows how much overlap exists in the distributions. It is not a threatening picture. Yes, differences exist, but it is also true that millions of Africans and Latins have higher cognitive ability than millions of Europeans and Asians. The top figure should also serve as an object lesson in the necessity of judging people as individuals, not members of groups. If you rely on the difference in means you are going to make a huge number of mistakes about individuals.

    [This is the Murray we know from before: Kumbaya, treat people as individuals, that black guy may be super smart and competent. But now the gloves come off:]

    The bottom figure shows why race differences in cognitive ability nonetheless have consequences for the society as a whole. The differences in the raw numbers of individuals on the right-hand side of the bell curve become larger as IQ goes up. Among people of the four races with IQs of 100, 70 percent are European or Asian. For IQs of 115, 85 percent. For IQs of 125, 90 percent. For IQs of 140, 96 percent.

    Since the most prestigious, powerful, and highest paying jobs are so concentrated among people on the right-hand side of the distribution, a variety of important social and economic consequences are not just possible. They are inevitable. Chapter 5 takes up a few of the most important ones.

    Murray, Charles. Facing Reality (pp. 39-40). Encounter Books. Kindle Edition.

    So in other words, “Treat that black emergency room doctor as a wonderful individual … who statistically was probably at the bottom of her class, with no white doctors anywhere near her level of lack of qualifications at this hospital or in this city.”

  23. Great observation:

    But nobody anymore asks blacks to do better.

    Asking people to do better, rather than castigating or coddling them, requires you to respect them.

    Black people know this on some level. They are constantly talking about feeling disrespected.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Black people know this on some level. They are constantly talking about feeling disrespected.

    Yes, a common complaint we hear from black students at elite colleges is about people making them feel they don't belong there. Because they don't, and on some level they know it.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @anonymous

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Triteleia Laxa


    They are constantly firing handguns about feeling disrespected.
     
    FIFY. ;-}
    , @Ben the Layabout
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Your comment has the unspoken premise that all people are worthy of respect. I concede that in an ideal world everybody would be judged by his true nature, his individual merits. Alas, we don't live in an ideal world. We must often just people by statistical averages, stereotypes if you like. Blacks come in at a particular disadvantage when it comes to this. Equal treatment and equal outcome are two of many pleasant lies (with dangerous consequences) that exist in our nation.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

  24. I’m not an “anti-racist “ in 2021 for the same reason I wouldn’t have been an “anti-communist “ in 1954 even though I strongly oppose racism and communism. The people pushing the anti position are nut jobs like Kendi and Joe McCarthy. Authoritarian goons. No thanks.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    @Dan Smith


    nut jobs like Kendi and Joe McCarthy
     
    Except Kendi is wrong and McCarthy was right.
  25. @ScarletNumber

    Are cops just racistly arresting blacks for ticky-tack property offenses like, say, taking an extra newspaper from the rack?
     
    I understand your point, but I don't think this is even a thing anymore.

    Replies: @Pericles

    Indeed, consider Prop 47. I seem to recall similar legislation elsewhere too. (Baltimore ignores entire categories of crime.)

    “They know what they’re doing. They will bring in calculators and get all the way up to the $950 limit,” Michelin told Fox News, adding that “one person will go into a store, fill up their backpack, come out, dump it out and go right back in and do it all over again.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-prop-47-shoplifting-theft-crime-statewide

  26. What’s the racial breakdown for white collar crime?

  27. @PhysicistDave
    @RichardTaylor

    RichardTaylor asked:


    If you let Murray and all the HBD’ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There’s an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?
     
    You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.

    This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.


    It is a fight between the ruling parasitic verbalist overclass versus the productive citizens of this country.

    The ruling elite are using Blacks and Hispanics as pawns.

    Revolver News has uncovered evidence that some of the "leaders" of the January 6 "Insurrection" may have been federal agents provocateurs.

    I am beginning to strongly suspect that the same is true of some of you in the "White nationalist movement."

    Or maybe you are just useful dupes.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @RichardTaylor, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Redmen, @res, @Prester John, @GeneralRipper, @anon

    This is version 23 of the claim, “whatever is going on, RACE has nothing to do with it.

    Of course, this message is only given to White audiences.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @RichardTaylor

    Richard Taylor wrote to me:


    This is version 23 of the claim, “whatever is going on, RACE has nothing to do with it.

    Of course, this message is only given to White audiences.
     
    Not in the slightest. This is version 23 of the claim that the ruling elite is intentionally inflaming racial differences in order to set the peasants against each other so that they will not unite to fight their common enemy -- the parasitic verbalist overclass.

    And you are, I think, intentionally helping the ruling elite.

    Replies: @RichardTaylor, @John Johnson

  28. anon[237] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @JimDandy

    Blacks and Hispanics are quite similar in income and wealth, but blacks commit far more crime. If blacks cut their crime rate to the Hispanic level, this country would be vastly better off.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @anon, @Matttt, @Marty T

    Chicago is a lab experiment in the the criminality of Blacks vs Hispanics/Mexicans. Blacks, having elected a black mayor, Harold Washington in 1982, began seeing themselves rapidly replaced/deplaced by Mexicans. We can never be sure if it was deliberate or just happened.

    But the city is now very roughly 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 Black/White/Hispanic. And Washington was the last Black mayor, since current mayor, lesbian Lori Lightfoot is more gay than black.

    Everyone prefers a Mexican underclass to Blacks. Is that the root cause of open borders? Or just an unintended benefit.

    But it is striking. Pilsen is a major Hispanic area and is OK. It is literally vibrant, as there is plenty of street food and commerce. Is a “food desert” even conceivable in a Mexican neighborhood? Whereas, Black areas are surprisingly devoid of commercial activity.

    • Replies: @anon
    @anon

    Pilsen is a major Hispanic area and is OK. It is literally vibrant, as there is plenty of street food and commerce. Is a “food desert” even conceivable in a Mexican neighborhood

    I wonder what happens to Persons of Color who try to rob a food truck in Pilsen? How is it different from what happens to Persons of Color who try to rob a corner store in an all-black area?

  29. There’s no confusion in lumping latino criminals in with Whites. It’s done on purpose to make black criminality look not as bad and White criminality look worse, period.

  30. Was the “Hispanic” category invented to mask Whites’ lower crime rates?

  31. Vouchers? LOL!

    Sending them to the Ivies doesn’t close the IQ gap. But it does serve to indoctrinate them and the white kids to KendiKulture. Once they get their “smart sounding” yet laughably false worldview and vocabulary, they all sound the same. Gap closed?

  32. The effect and impact of shame on the part of Africans thrown into the midst of a more advanced and intelligent Western Civilization has not received much notice.

    I have often thought about how I would see the world if I had been an African living in the United States. I would be ashamed of my race; I would be ashamed of my clan; and I would cringe everytime I glanced through a National Geographic magazine, watched a documentary on sub-Saharan Africa, or watched news shorts on events in sub-Saharan Africa.

    How do Africans feel when they “notice” that there is not one well-managed or successful Black city, large corporation, university, or country on planet earth? Sub-Saharan Africans are not only a custodial population in their relationship with Europeans in the United States, they are also a custodial population amid the human race living off the largesse of Western nations and the UN. Think western medicine, food aid, and other foreign aid that is driving the population explosion in sub-Saharan Africa.

    I would be perpetually angry as an African American male. I would project my feelings onto others as I sought to purge these demonic thoughts from my life. I would be violent because I would be living a comparison I cannot stand and cannot change.

    Sub-Saharan Africans and Europeans mix like oil and water with no prospect of emulsifying into one people. We have experimented with “integration” for over 57 years. It has been an abject failure in the United States and everywhere else it has been tried. South Africa anyone? Hostility has reached a point that even the Africans appear to want racial segregation from a culture and civilization that shames them at every turn.

    • Thanks: Mr Mox, Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @bomag
    @TheJester

    Good observations.

    Small quibble:


    I would be perpetually angry as an African American male. I would project my feelings onto others as I sought to purge these demonic thoughts from my life. I would be violent because I would be living a comparison I cannot stand and cannot change.
     
    They are not that deep.

    Parasites don't hate the host; they just do their thing.
    , @Element59
    @TheJester

    Ahh, but these self-critical reflections may be beyond most Sub-Saharans, as is reasoning in abstractions. The concepts of reflection and shame are adaptive characteristics of the Western European mind that when projected onto other racial groups, invites danger.

    , @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    @TheJester

    Yet most blacks are extremely proud of their history and believe Blacks created civilization and are superior to whites. Blacks have no shame about their race.

    Blacks have much higher self-esteem than whites, and are more proud of their race than whites.

    Blacks blame racist whites for their problems. Whites also blame racism for the problems of Black run cities and Black pathologies. While Blacks have the excuse of being less intelligent than whites, yet whites are the ones teaching Blacks that all their problems are due to evil racist whites and systemic invisible racism.

  33. It’s a good start.

    And yeah white identitarianism would be a disaster not because it would be so dangerous to anyone else but because it would be so weak. We have no experience with it and a significant source of our present power* is still predicated on our deracination.

    I think the Establishment intuitively sense that and that’s what they mean when they say the white supremacy is the greatest threat to the US. In that sense it is, and not just the Establishment.

    It would be our mouths writing a check our fists are unprepared to cash.

    * – often now exerted in (organized) criminal ways so shld probably keep in mind when speaking of black criminality

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Desiderius

    Ideology is a layer which we put between ourselves and the truth. We might need that layer, but we should never confuse our need for ideology, with that ideology actually being true; or else we get stuck within our own clothing.

    "White identitarianism" is clothing like any other; but deeply unfashionable, cumbersome and unsuited to the demands of the task ahead.

    Paradoxically, all layers, while restrictive, are also imaginary.

    Proponents of "white identitarianism" ask us to pretend that it is a very fine clothing, which all whites would buy, if only it were never "critiqued". They aren't the child shouting "you're naked" at the Emperor, but the Emperor, fingers in his ears, after the crowd has rallied behind the child.

    That the child is also naked, does not mean that the crowd will forget that the Emperor wears no clothes.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Desiderius

    So we should just lay back and take it. Become a hate and discriminated minority until we simply cease to exist as a people.

    Great plan.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  34. Jews have a nose for power (they had to to survive). They’re freaked out by white identity because it smells so weak.

    America is where the (rapidly depleting) power is, not whiteness.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Desiderius


    Jews have a nose for power (they had to to survive). They’re freaked out by white identity because it smells so weak.
     
    It seems Jewish academics are circumspect when it comes to motives and racial bias.

    “It’s really hard to prove somebody’s motive unless it’s really blatant. We can’t read minds,” said Phyllis Gerstenfeld, an expert on hate crimes and a criminal justice professor at the California State University at Stanislaus… “Even if the defendant shouts racial slurs while carrying out the crime, it doesn’t necessarily mean that racism was the motive,” Gerstenfeld said.
     
    Yes, the case she’s commenting on involves native Hawaiians attacking a white guy, but still, I’m sure Phyllis Gerstenfeld would be equally non-judgmental if the races were reversed. 🤣🤣

    This Brutal Maui Assault Prompts Hate Crime Charges — 7 Years Later

    It’s the first Hawaii hate crime case brought by the feds in 20 years, but U.S. Attorney Kenji Price is hoping to send a strong message about victimizing others because of their race or color.

    In 2013, Chris Kunzelman and his wife bought a house in Maui’s remote Kahakuloa village despite being warned that neighborhood residents “do not like white people.”

    Every time a non-Native Hawaiian had tried to view the house, Hawaiian residents from the deeply rooted village of approximately 150 people harassed and threatened them, scaring other potential buyers of the foreclosed property away, according to court documents…

    Kunzelman was brutally assaulted in a “racially motivated” attack as he attempted to move belongings into the house on Feb. 13, 2014, according to an indictment by a federal grand jury in Honolulu that was announced last week.

    https://www.civilbeat.org/2021/01/this-brutal-maui-assault-prompts-hate-crime-charges-7-years-later/

     

  35. @PhysicistDave
    @RichardTaylor

    RichardTaylor asked:


    If you let Murray and all the HBD’ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There’s an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?
     
    You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.

    This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.


    It is a fight between the ruling parasitic verbalist overclass versus the productive citizens of this country.

    The ruling elite are using Blacks and Hispanics as pawns.

    Revolver News has uncovered evidence that some of the "leaders" of the January 6 "Insurrection" may have been federal agents provocateurs.

    I am beginning to strongly suspect that the same is true of some of you in the "White nationalist movement."

    Or maybe you are just useful dupes.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @RichardTaylor, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Redmen, @res, @Prester John, @GeneralRipper, @anon

    Is this the part where you tell us some of your best friends are black?

  36. @Dieter Kief
    I can't see any sound reason to attack - or even criticize Charles Murray's facts and arguments. His writing in the face of societal reality pretty much boils down to: This and this is so and so (he as an author is thus very close to the virtue of humbleness).
    Ibram X. Kendi on the other hand could be looked upon as the one who makes all kinds of mistakes but is still respected because there are indeed reasons to be angry and feel bad. Whether Ibram X. Kendi would want to see the quite openly stretched out common ground between him and - Steve Sailer's hints at some practical consequences of Murray's findings like calm down, black men. Don't brag about being dangerous and reckless and - murderous, etc. - leave the Gangsta-role model behind, it is doing you no good , try to behave at school ...- whether Ibram X. Kendi would want to embrace such insights is an open - and interesting...question.

    Replies: @Seneca44, @J.Ross, @AndrewR, @Charlesz Martel

    Totally agree and I would pay good money to see Murray vs. Kendi in an open debate. I seriously think such an event could be well monetized on something like a pay per view platform.

    • Replies: @Currahee
    @Seneca44

    Kendi would agree to that only if the event were to be held in front of an exclusively antifa crowd who would immediately physically attack Murray, killing him.












    s

  37. Arguments of the form “y’all best straighten up or the Saxon gonna begin to hate” defeat themselves because they mistake the nature of the conflict. People like Kendi and his sponsors would like nothing better than for the Saxon to begin to hate (again). Last time the Saxon specifically hated he got pwned so badly his people are still getting anally raped culturally a century later.

    But most of us are not Saxons. The sons of perfidious Albion are significantly cagier than that and of course most of us have already been so beaten down and dis-integrated to where we couldn’t afford to respond to these orchestrated provocations if we wanted to. At least with hate.

    The neither Jew nor Greek crew was our help in ages past and is our Hope in years to come. There is no other.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Desiderius

    Christianity was the religion of the Empire. The Empire is gone, and the Church really hasn't figured out what to do ever since.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    , @FPD72
    @Desiderius


    The neither Jew nor Greek crew was our help in ages past and is our Hope in years to come. There is no other.
     
    A nice homage to Isaac Watts, with a possible allusion to Edward Mote!
    , @Ryan Andrews
    @Desiderius

    These comments are gibberish. You're afraid to take a stand. Just come out and say it, and spare us the pretentious psyops.

  38. @Redneck farmer
    Lying made be bad for the soul, but it can be great for the pocketbook and ego!

    Replies: @Papinian

    What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world, but lose his soul?

  39. One thing I’ve not seen is the black/white murder rates corrected for IQ. Are low IQ whites, even though roughly seven times (?) less likely to have an IQ under 85 than blacks (and I’m not sure how even more less likely to have an IQ under 70) comparatively violent? That would be good to know.

    • Agree: Triteleia Laxa
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Luke Lea


    One thing I’ve not seen is the black/white murder rates corrected for IQ. Are low IQ whites, even though roughly seven times (?) less likely to have an IQ under 85 than blacks (and I’m not sure how even more less likely to have an IQ under 70) comparatively violent? That would be good to know.
     
    One of the things I distinctly recall Murray having said while being interviewed about The Bell Curve is that low IQ blacks and whites present differently - a 70 IQ black man is perceived as somewhat normal in all respects, while a 70 IQ white man would present with what would be easily perceived as the result of some sort of "brain insult."

    Therefore my surmise is that the very low IQ white person would either be in some sort of institutional setting or other support network for morons and would likely have a childlike outlook. He would not be a good candidate for gang membership or semi-organized criminal activity even as a hanger-on. Therefore he's not likely to get into situations in which the commission of murder are likely.

    Replies: @profnasty, @Ben the Layabout

    , @Anonymous
    @Luke Lea

    The Bell Curve concluded that "some ethnic differences [such as in crime] are not washed away by controlling for either intelligence or for any other variables that we examined. We leave those remaining differences unexplained and look forward to learning from our colleagues where the explanations lie"
    Obviously the higher than average levels of testosterone among blacks is a likely culprit for the crime differentials. It's well known than black men are at a higher risk of prostate cancer, which can correlate with testosterone levels. A good test way to test this theory would be seeing if Asian men are (slightly) less likely than whites to be criminal when you control for IQ. It is said Asian men have, on average, the lowest testosterone (and prostate cancer) rates.

    , @Some Guy
    @Luke Lea


    Are low IQ whites, even though roughly seven times (?) less likely to have an IQ under 85 than blacks
     
    About 50% of blacks and 16% of whites have an IQ under 85, so blacks are three times more likely.

    and I’m not sure how even more less likely to have an IQ under 70
     
    Blacks about eight times more likely, excluding low IQ caused by some specific malady.

    Replies: @vhrm, @Luke Lea

  40. It’d be one thing to get the ruling class to accept reality with regard to race (I actually think they do understand it, and it manifests in their own personal lives, but doesn’t invade their prescriptive politics), but now it’s a whole other thing to get blacks to accept reality with regard to race.

    I just don’t see anyone convincing American blacks that they’re not all rocket surgeons living in mansions with Benzes because as a group they’re hobbled by a persistent intergenerational intelligence deficit that hasn’t been ameliorated over several decades despite heroic measures (however tacitly those measures were employed). The reasonable policy outcome of accepting these observable facts is a more paternalistic posture towards American blacks, with less emphasis on their representation among high achievers and more emphasis on coercing them to behave in ways which raise their minimum standards of behavior. You would, for example, endeavor to supplement black incomes but you’d do so not with easily squandered cash but rather with the delivery of provisions. But the narrative that black achievement is poor because of racist voodoo and localized disasters like the razing of black Wall Street in Tulsa Oklahoma has become far too strong to overcome.

  41. @Desiderius
    It’s a good start.

    And yeah white identitarianism would be a disaster not because it would be so dangerous to anyone else but because it would be so weak. We have no experience with it and a significant source of our present power* is still predicated on our deracination.

    I think the Establishment intuitively sense that and that’s what they mean when they say the white supremacy is the greatest threat to the US. In that sense it is, and not just the Establishment.

    It would be our mouths writing a check our fists are unprepared to cash.

    * - often now exerted in (organized) criminal ways so shld probably keep in mind when speaking of black criminality

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Ideology is a layer which we put between ourselves and the truth. We might need that layer, but we should never confuse our need for ideology, with that ideology actually being true; or else we get stuck within our own clothing.

    “White identitarianism” is clothing like any other; but deeply unfashionable, cumbersome and unsuited to the demands of the task ahead.

    Paradoxically, all layers, while restrictive, are also imaginary.

    Proponents of “white identitarianism” ask us to pretend that it is a very fine clothing, which all whites would buy, if only it were never “critiqued”. They aren’t the child shouting “you’re naked” at the Emperor, but the Emperor, fingers in his ears, after the crowd has rallied behind the child.

    That the child is also naked, does not mean that the crowd will forget that the Emperor wears no clothes.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Triteleia Laxa

    I'm not sure if I get that comment completely, Triteleia, but there sure are a lot of naked people in it. Just for closure's sake, what is the Empress wearing, if anything?

  42. @Luke Lea
    One thing I've not seen is the black/white murder rates corrected for IQ. Are low IQ whites, even though roughly seven times (?) less likely to have an IQ under 85 than blacks (and I'm not sure how even more less likely to have an IQ under 70) comparatively violent? That would be good to know.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Anonymous, @Some Guy

    One thing I’ve not seen is the black/white murder rates corrected for IQ. Are low IQ whites, even though roughly seven times (?) less likely to have an IQ under 85 than blacks (and I’m not sure how even more less likely to have an IQ under 70) comparatively violent? That would be good to know.

    One of the things I distinctly recall Murray having said while being interviewed about The Bell Curve is that low IQ blacks and whites present differently – a 70 IQ black man is perceived as somewhat normal in all respects, while a 70 IQ white man would present with what would be easily perceived as the result of some sort of “brain insult.”

    Therefore my surmise is that the very low IQ white person would either be in some sort of institutional setting or other support network for morons and would likely have a childlike outlook. He would not be a good candidate for gang membership or semi-organized criminal activity even as a hanger-on. Therefore he’s not likely to get into situations in which the commission of murder are likely.

    • Replies: @profnasty
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    'is'
    You broached the word *murder*.
    Scary, man! My town has numeral Black immigrants from Haiti, Bahamas, Africa, Canada. All we have in common is the air we breathe. Which, I'm sure they brought various virii along with them in their bindle.
    We believe small exposure to virisuses promotes resistance, maybe even immunity, to said virene.
    I thank them for that.

    , @Ben the Layabout
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    There is more to mental function, of course, than raw intelligence. I don't have a reference, but I think it's covered in one of the Lynn or Jensen books. As I recall it, the author was studying the mentally retarded and his obsservatiion was similar to what you write, except this context was children forming friendships in school setting. Low-IQ (say, 70) Black children had good social interactions, but Whites of same IQ were withdrawn and didn't interact.

    Of course, it's possible Murray makes a similar comment in his books. As you imply, it's possible to be simply too stupid to even be a criminal. Below about IQ 70 you rapidly get into "requires constant supervision" categories. I've seen it said the peak IQ for violent criminals is just sub-normal, call it 80-90, which alas perfectly centers the peak of the Black distribution.

    A final comment: I'm not aware of any studies that compare (say) criminal outcomes of retarded people by race. I speculate retarded Whites get better institutional care (more money or that old "white privilege" if you like) which naturally would reduce the ward's chances of getting into mischief.

  43. I think this is going to give me an opportunity to focus on Charles Murray’s work and career from sort of a holistic, top of the mountain looking down, sort of way. Facing a little bit of our own reality.

    I already have the book in a Kindle edition, and I’ll eventually get around to reading it, hopefully I can make some time before the three months of almost non-stop work that will be my July, August and September, if not it won’t be until things calm down in October.

    But I know that, in the pre-release promotional materials, one of the things that Murray himself wrote about this book is that he wants it to be a call to action to (pph): “All center-leftists and center-rights of good will.”

    I reacted right as I read that: What, all five of them?

    And that points to a problem that so many in our sector, including myself, and so many of you reading these words, have had with him. He’s really ace about telling us about the problem, then turns right around and bashes and trashes the people and sectors most likely to think that these things he describes are indeed problems and want to solve them. All the while, he’s chasing around “center-leftists and center-rightists of good will,” the sort of people that, back in the days when they were substantial in number and power, wanted no part of anything he had to say, and threw him under the bus when things got just a little too hot. And now that they’re pretty much non-entities, it’s about as useful to appeal them as it is to try to get Know-Nothings, Whigs, Bull Moosers and Free Silverers on your side.

    That’s why, at least according to other reviews, Murray takes such annoying swipes at “white identity politics.” He doesn’t like the very people who are the only ones interested in solving what he openly states is the problem. But at the same time appealing to political ghosts.

    The other dead end flaw in Murrayism, related to what I just wrote, is that he has spent a career trying to tell the people who benefit from cognitive stratification that the system of cognitive stratification is a bad thing. Might as well have tried to sell Ronald McDonald on the fact that ground beef is bad for your cardiovascular health. To some people, the bug is the feature.

    A mind slightly more conspiratorial than mine may wonder if Murray even wants that which he considers problems to be solved, and that the fact that he still has cushy employment and some cache of mainstream platform visibility of the sort that, e.g. Sam Francis and Jared Taylor, quickly lost, points to something being suspiciously amiss or not quite right.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @countenance

    By center whatever he means normies. He’s trying to appeal to them by flattery. It’s evidently the only tool in his social toolbox. He’s not alone.

    Maybe he’s belatedly trying to rummage around in our rich heritage for others. Better late than never.

    Replies: @Barnard

    , @AndrewR
    @countenance

    He's an old man. Do you expect him to go around leading fights against communists in the street?

    It can be useful to at least publicly pretend that white nationalism is not a viable path forward. It's increasingly obvious to normies that a "colorblind" approach has led to increasingly anti-white measures as the left refuses to play by the same rules that they conned conservatives into adopting. It's not hard to put two and two together.

    , @PhysicistDave
    @countenance

    countenance asked:


    The other dead end flaw in Murrayism, related to what I just wrote, is that he has spent a career trying to tell the people who benefit from cognitive stratification that the system of cognitive stratification is a bad thing. Might as well have tried to sell Ronald McDonald on the fact that ground beef is bad for your cardiovascular health. To some people, the bug is the feature.
     
    Yeah, that is a serious problem.

    I think the partial answer is that, even though Murray knows that few working-class people are going to read his books, he hopes that some of the people who do read them will end up being "class traitors" who will try to mobilize the working class.

    Trump tried to do that, a bit ineptly to be sure.

    Tucker may be doing a bit better.

    And then there are those of us who are not exactly "class traitors" but who have a real loyalty to our country and to Western civilization and who can see where this is leading. I am pretty sure that Sailer himself and several of the commenters here (Desiderius, I think) fit in that group.

    The good news is Stein's Law: "Whatever cannot go on forever won't."

    What the elite is doing will destroy industrial society: it cannot go on forever.

    The bad news is that what they are doing can do enormous damage to our country and our civilization, not to mention the misery it can cause to us, our children, and our grandchildren.

    This will end, but there may be a great deal of suffering by innocent people in the interim.

    Replies: @ATBOTL

  44. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:

    White privilege = diversity, multiculturalism, mass immigration

    Non-white privilege = borders!

    “Diversity is a strength” means “White people are a weakness”

    That’s not ‘anti-racism’, that’s anti-whiteism.

    Our ancestors have committed no unique sins, but have given the world many unique gifts.

  45. @Hapalong Cassidy
    DC seems to arrest a lot more people based on that chart. I guess the elites still like to have their law and order, at least for themselves. Still, it is worth noting that the Hispanics in the DC area tend to be Salvadoran, which in part explains the high arrest rate.

    Replies: @Frank McGar

    MS-13s are all over the DC/MD/VA area.

  46. Those of us who want to defend the American creed have been unwilling to say openly that races have significant group differences.

    I am curious who Murray includes in this group. Murray has another quote in Chapter 1 where he says he people on the center left in the liberal tradition that extends from FDR to Bill Clinton and includes Senator Joe Biden are a special priority for him. Who is left in public life that considers himself part of this tradition? What evidence does Murray have that anyone on the left listens to what he says at all? His books are clearly not influencing these people and have not been influencing them for a long time. What is he getting told privately that makes him any of these people will do anything other than trash him publicly? How could he even causally follow Joe Biden’s career and think he is a man of goodwill and reason, even if he still had his adequate cognitive ability to be President? The whole thing is a waste because Murray refuses to see the true nature of the left.

  47. Murray has always had a sense of noblesse oblige.

    A main point of The Bell Curve and Coming Apart is that half of people are below average, by definition; here we are talking about intelligence. So what are the responsibilities of the elite to the below average, Fishtown black or white?

    The elite have failed the Fishtown miserably over the last five decades, primarily by destroying the blue collar wage. It wasn’t just unstoppable market forces.

    Replace the role of father and breadwinner with female labor and taxpayers’ check, and you tend to create men who have no purpose but Nature’s own imperatives.

    Tariffs, enforced borders, a media norm of stable mother and father families, functional schools, safe streets. The elite are capable of achieving these things or at least improving them.

    Finesse and sidestep the race question where you can. Half of everyone is below average. What do the powerful shapers of the country owe them?

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Elli

    Murray grew up in Newton, Iowa, population 15K or so, which in Iowa terms makes it a biggish small-town, if you know what I mean.

    I grew up in an Iowa town a couple of notches smaller than Newton, but also big enough to have, and build up, its own fairly successful local economy.

    Even in idyllic small towns, half the population is below average. And yet there seems to be a place for almost everyone -- economically, socially, religiously.

    Reading Murray over the years, I've often gotten the feeling that he's striving to find a way to help everyone to 'fit in' like they did back in Newton. This is not the worst impulse for a social scientist to have, by a long shot.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    , @Dieter Kief
    @Elli


    Finesse and sidestep the race question where you can. Half of everyone is below average. What do the powerful shapers of the country owe them?
     
    The one crucial point in this analysis that might (?) separate Steve from Charles Murray. Because here Steve insists: It's not only gratifications which are at stake, but also - guidance.
    I'd even add mental and social/societal structures, that work for the below-average people too. Seen from a Swiss perspective, it is at times hard and sour work and means an enormous amount of (that's very unpleasant for the libertarians around here) - public spending, to achieve these goals. - Since the Swiss do achieve these goals (other than the Swedes, say) with regard to their below-average immigrants too, I'd say (from my own Swiss experience in that field even) that it is not a futile approach.
    But it is not only expensive but dependant on a rather perfect public school system. at least this system (and strict policing, too, and yes: Also for minor offenses (that is part of Steve Sailer's guidance part, I'd hold***) is what success is based on most dearly.
    *** and that too is not cheap. Swiss police are also (as teachers, psychotherapists speech-therapists social workers, etc....) quite well paid...
    , @Bumpkin
    @Elli


    The elite have failed the Fishtown miserably over the last five decades, primarily by destroying the blue collar wage. It wasn’t just unstoppable market forces.
     
    I completely disagree. The "elites" had nothing to do with it, it was all "unstoppable market forces."

    To begin with, the US was living in a fantasy land after WWII, when the rest of the world's industrial base was destroyed and only the US was running at full speed. That allowed wages to overshoot before the rest of the world caught up.

    By the '80s, intellectual work started shooting up as a percentage of the economy, and now manufacturing is a small percentage of world GDP.

    Naturally, the predominance of such information services in a modern economy doesn't favor Fishtown, no matter where you go in the world.

    Tariffs, enforced borders, a media norm of stable mother and father families, functional schools, safe streets. The elite are capable of achieving these things or at least improving them.
     
    No, the first two are not possible, and the latter three are our own responsibility. It wasn't "elites" chanting "Defund the police!" in Minneapolis last year, but the brain-dead residents. They got what they deserved, a lot more crime.

    Half of everyone is below average. What do the powerful shapers of the country owe them?
     
    Nothing. If there was anything that once made this country great and is now slipping away, it was the common man's drive to make their and their neighbor's lives better. That is now disappearing as simps like you cry for "elites" to do it for you, and throw tantrums when they don't. Man up and do it yourself.
  48. @JimDandy
    Great column. Are there any stats that compare the crime/murder rates of poor whites, blacks, and hispanics? I'm guessing a standard woke response to this general discussion would be to say that black rates are higher than white rates because a much higher percentage of blacks are below the poverty line than whites.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Some Guy, @J1234

    • Thanks: JimDandy, Dieter Kief
  49. @International Jew
    Baltimore just 6.3?!

    Replies: @Some Guy, @kaganovitch, @anon, @AnotherDad

    Most of the normal whites must’ve left Baltimore by now.

  50. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:
    @Luke Lea
    One thing I've not seen is the black/white murder rates corrected for IQ. Are low IQ whites, even though roughly seven times (?) less likely to have an IQ under 85 than blacks (and I'm not sure how even more less likely to have an IQ under 70) comparatively violent? That would be good to know.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Anonymous, @Some Guy

    The Bell Curve concluded that “some ethnic differences [such as in crime] are not washed away by controlling for either intelligence or for any other variables that we examined. We leave those remaining differences unexplained and look forward to learning from our colleagues where the explanations lie”
    Obviously the higher than average levels of testosterone among blacks is a likely culprit for the crime differentials. It’s well known than black men are at a higher risk of prostate cancer, which can correlate with testosterone levels. A good test way to test this theory would be seeing if Asian men are (slightly) less likely than whites to be criminal when you control for IQ. It is said Asian men have, on average, the lowest testosterone (and prostate cancer) rates.

    • Thanks: vhrm
  51. @Luke Lea
    One thing I've not seen is the black/white murder rates corrected for IQ. Are low IQ whites, even though roughly seven times (?) less likely to have an IQ under 85 than blacks (and I'm not sure how even more less likely to have an IQ under 70) comparatively violent? That would be good to know.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Anonymous, @Some Guy

    Are low IQ whites, even though roughly seven times (?) less likely to have an IQ under 85 than blacks

    About 50% of blacks and 16% of whites have an IQ under 85, so blacks are three times more likely.

    and I’m not sure how even more less likely to have an IQ under 70

    Blacks about eight times more likely, excluding low IQ caused by some specific malady.

    • Replies: @vhrm
    @Some Guy


    Blacks about eight times more likely, excluding low IQ caused by some specific malady.
     
    And, incidentally, given that blacks are ~ 1/8th of the population, this is why, even at that low threshold, the problem of "what to do with low IQ in society" is still not primarily (let alone exclusively) about dealing with black people.
    , @Luke Lea
    @Some Guy

    Thanks

  52. Mostly OT:

    Simone Biles’s brother has murder charges dismissed, leading to chaotic courtroom scene

    An Ohio judge Tuesday dismissed murder and other charges that were filed against Tevin Biles-Thomas, the brother of U.S. Olympic gymnast Simone Biles. The judge’s announcement in a Cuyahoga County courtroom elicited an enraged reaction from a woman who charged toward Biles-Thomas before being restrained by sheriff’s deputies.

    The woman was identified in multiple reports as the mother of one of the men whose death at a 2018 New Year’s Eve party in Cleveland formed the basis of the case. Biles-Thomas, 26, was accused of fatally shooting 19-year-old DelVaunte Johnson and 21-year-old Toshaun Banks in an incident in which 23-year-old DeVaughn Gibson, reportedly the cousin of Biles-Thomas, was also shot to death.

    Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court Judge Joan Synenberg upheld a motion to dismiss from Biles-Thomas’s defense team after she found that the evidence presented by prosecutors was “insufficient to sustain a conviction.” Synenberg cited a witness for the prosecution who testified that she didn’t see the shooter’s face and was only 75 percent certain that clothing visible on surveillance being worn by Biles-Thomas matched her recollection of what the shooter was wearing.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2021/06/15/simone-biles-brother-murder-charges-dismissed/

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    @PiltdownMan

    Do they give Simone Biles' brother's height?

    , @Morton's toes
    @PiltdownMan

    I couldn't find the perp's height (his sister is 4 ft 8 in) but I did find out that the mayhem occurred at a party in an Airbnb rental on New Years Eve.

    https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/08/olympic-gold-medalist-simone-biles-brother-charged-in-cleveland-triple-homicide.html

    Also he was active duty Army when he and his buddies crashed the party hard.

  53. @International Jew
    Baltimore just 6.3?!

    Replies: @Some Guy, @kaganovitch, @anon, @AnotherDad

    For a possible explanation see La Griffe du Lion’s essay

    http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/city.htm

  54. Anonymous[385] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    Jews have a nose for power (they had to to survive). They’re freaked out by white identity because it smells so weak.

    America is where the (rapidly depleting) power is, not whiteness.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Jews have a nose for power (they had to to survive). They’re freaked out by white identity because it smells so weak.

    It seems Jewish academics are circumspect when it comes to motives and racial bias.

    “It’s really hard to prove somebody’s motive unless it’s really blatant. We can’t read minds,” said Phyllis Gerstenfeld, an expert on hate crimes and a criminal justice professor at the California State University at Stanislaus… “Even if the defendant shouts racial slurs while carrying out the crime, it doesn’t necessarily mean that racism was the motive,” Gerstenfeld said.

    Yes, the case she’s commenting on involves native Hawaiians attacking a white guy, but still, I’m sure Phyllis Gerstenfeld would be equally non-judgmental if the races were reversed. 🤣🤣

    This Brutal Maui Assault Prompts Hate Crime Charges — 7 Years Later

    It’s the first Hawaii hate crime case brought by the feds in 20 years, but U.S. Attorney Kenji Price is hoping to send a strong message about victimizing others because of their race or color.

    In 2013, Chris Kunzelman and his wife bought a house in Maui’s remote Kahakuloa village despite being warned that neighborhood residents “do not like white people.”

    Every time a non-Native Hawaiian had tried to view the house, Hawaiian residents from the deeply rooted village of approximately 150 people harassed and threatened them, scaring other potential buyers of the foreclosed property away, according to court documents…

    Kunzelman was brutally assaulted in a “racially motivated” attack as he attempted to move belongings into the house on Feb. 13, 2014, according to an indictment by a federal grand jury in Honolulu that was announced last week.

    https://www.civilbeat.org/2021/01/this-brutal-maui-assault-prompts-hate-crime-charges-7-years-later/

  55. Charles Murray says:

    I am also aware of a paradox: I want America to return to the ideal of treating people as individuals, so I have to write a book that treats Americans as groups. But there’s no way around it. Those of us who want to defend the American creed have been unwilling to say openly that races have significant group differences. Since we have been unwilling to say that, we have been defenseless against claims that racism is to blame for unequal outcomes. What else could it be? We have been afraid to answer candidly.

    I say:

    You gotta talk about group differences in IQ because if you don’t the JEW/WASP Ruling Class of the American Empire will just use their propaganda apparatus to harp on about so-called “White Supremacy” and so-called “White Nationalism” and all the other anti-White propaganda endlessly repeated in the ruling class controlled mass media.

    Blacks and Mestizos/Amerindians are less intelligent, on average, than Whites and Northeastern Asians(Chinese, Koreans, Japanese…) and Blacks commit a hugely disproportionate amount of violent crime in the USA.

    Murray must be ignored when he frets about WHITES organizing politically to advance and defend their interests as WHITES, and Murray seems to be carrying water for the JEW/WASP Ruling Class of the American Empire.

    WHITE IDENTITY POLITICS IS THE WAY TO GO

    I wrote this in May of 2021 about Charles Murray and the Ruling Class and Whites advancing their interests as Whites:

    The Concrete Congos are gonna get worse and the Concrete Congos in the Swamp City DC area are gonna be the worst of the worst and Muttonhead Murray just wrote a book that makes the case for low Black innate IQ and the only way to counterattack the Democrat Party storyline of so-called “racism” accounting for the racial school test gap is to say matter of factly that the Blacks are on average less intelligent than Whites and Asians(Chinese, Koreans, Japanese).

    The billionaires and the multi-millionaires and the Upper Middle Class Snot Brats are using Blacks as a shield to prevent the proper focus of financial plundering and wealth concentration in the hands of the top ten percent.

    The hostile Blacks are merciful; the billionaires and the multi-millionaires and the Upper Middle Class Snot Brats are the dreaded enemy.

    Obama and Biden and Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer are Democrat Party hypocrites who use Blacks as a shield to give cover to the plundering of the USA by money-grubbing top ten percent wealth holder scum. Obama and Biden and Hillary Clinton live in wealthy areas free of Blacks because Obama and Biden and Hillary Clinton will do everything in their power to avoid having any interactions at all with Blacks.

    The Republican Party exists partly to capture and make docile any attempt to dislodge the JEW/WASP Ruling Class of the American Empire from power. The Republican Party exists partly to prevent Whites from advancing their own interests as Whites. The evil ruling class of the GOP must be obliterated.

    Blacks are hypocrites too because plenty of Blacks do everything in their power to avoid having to live around large concentrations of Blacks.

    Jews have a disproportionate control over the propaganda apparatus in the USA.

    Blacks are the violent perpetrators of a disproportionate amount of violent crime in the USA.

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/fisticuff-the-police/#comment-4677931

    • Replies: @Travis
    @Charles Pewitt

    Charles Murray is lying when he pretends to fear whites will unite as a group. There will be too few whites to matter in another decade. Already most whites in America are elderly or near retirement age. There are twice as many elderly Whites as young Whites in America today. These elderly whites are not a threat to the establishment they helped build. Young whites are more and more likely to marry non-whites. Working Class white males will be marrying Hispanic females as more middle class whites marry Asians. Blacks will have more to fret over when Whites are no longer the majority.

    https://twitter.com/JDKnox4/status/1405583104337645569?s=20

    Replies: @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco, @Liza

  56. @Steve Sailer
    @JimDandy

    Blacks and Hispanics are quite similar in income and wealth, but blacks commit far more crime. If blacks cut their crime rate to the Hispanic level, this country would be vastly better off.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @anon, @Matttt, @Marty T

    It’s hard to shake the suspicion that, in the U.S., Mexican violent crime is low because the Mexican gangs want it to be low. It’s kind of a scary thought. What happens when the Mexican gangs decide that homicidal violence is in their best interest? Black gangs shoot up house parties; Mexican gangs hang bodies from highway overpasses.

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Matttt

    In other words Mexican violence (excepting domestic violence) is more "thoughtful", precisely executed and achieves its objectives with much greater efficiency (and fewer, albeit more gruesome deaths) than Black violence.

  57. the Lake Wobegonization of America: Every single public school student must score “proficient” by 2014.

    “Proficient” is a pretty low standard, but the schools can’t even meet that.

    NCLB, CC, etc are just gimmicks that are intended to give the public education system another undeserved, 20 year lease on life. After many billions of tax dollars get flushed on a new policy (a real gravy train for consultants and statisticians), and anyone can see that the program failed (e.g the kids still can’t read), the school Union-Contractor complex comes back with yet another scheme.

    [MORE]

    The next one is shaping up to be the “hybrid” model: The virtual students and credentialed babysitter will all be given laptops and high-speed i’net. The white elephant schools will get rewired with fiber. You get the picture.

    During Covid, due to federal bailouts, school funding actually increased, even though student headcount officially dropped by 5% (the true figure is likely much higher). The hybrid model will distinguish itself as the biggest, public education failure of all time: The same dismal results, at record-shattering, per-student cost.

  58. The problem with have with the elites facing reality about this is multifaceted. First, the stratification of our society by income over the last few generations means that an increasingly large share of people in positions of influence in academia, media, politics and business have never lived in an area with a significant number of underclass blacks or latinos, did not go to school with any, and never worked in a job that brings them into regular contact either. So their concept of black human capital, behavior, and so on is essentially a fantasy that has never been tested by real life experience. That leads to “all we have to do is X” solutions that promise real life parity between blacks and whites.

    Secondly, these same people recognize that blacks are a crucial component of the Democratic voting base and that they cannot win national or statewide elections without 90% plus support. They certainly are not going to tell this cohort to sweep their front porch first before looking to society at large for help with self-inflicted problems. Indeed, the entire Dem strategy in relation to blacks since LBJ has been an exercise in delivering (or at least promising) goodies from the federal trough. The fact that elites can buy their way out of the consequences of this while prole whites suffer from it is a feature, not a bug.

    Lastly, our elites love to say how much better society would be without the patriarchy and more women in positions of power and influence is a good thing. Black society is effectively a matriarchy now and its a dumpster fire. I do see some signs that an increasing share of black men are pretty fed up with it, which accounts for the roughly 20% who did not vote Dem in the last election while something like 94% of black women did. Elite blindness to how the feminine mode of conflict resolution is a major factor in our modern cancel culture means it will continue for the foreseeable future.

  59. @Steve Sailer
    @JimDandy

    Blacks and Hispanics are quite similar in income and wealth, but blacks commit far more crime. If blacks cut their crime rate to the Hispanic level, this country would be vastly better off.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @anon, @Matttt, @Marty T

    Well we know that’s not happening unless we go back to Giuliani style policing on steroids. I think we’d have more luck getting the Hispanic rate down a bit. Maybe we can find what Tucson Hispanics are doing right.

    For blacks, if it’s not back to broken windows on steroids, we need to cut our losses and bring them back home, to where “white racism” doesn’t exist. I can live with worse basketball in a safer country.

  60. @countenance
    I think this is going to give me an opportunity to focus on Charles Murray's work and career from sort of a holistic, top of the mountain looking down, sort of way. Facing a little bit of our own reality.

    I already have the book in a Kindle edition, and I'll eventually get around to reading it, hopefully I can make some time before the three months of almost non-stop work that will be my July, August and September, if not it won't be until things calm down in October.

    But I know that, in the pre-release promotional materials, one of the things that Murray himself wrote about this book is that he wants it to be a call to action to (pph): "All center-leftists and center-rights of good will."

    I reacted right as I read that: What, all five of them?

    And that points to a problem that so many in our sector, including myself, and so many of you reading these words, have had with him. He's really ace about telling us about the problem, then turns right around and bashes and trashes the people and sectors most likely to think that these things he describes are indeed problems and want to solve them. All the while, he's chasing around "center-leftists and center-rightists of good will," the sort of people that, back in the days when they were substantial in number and power, wanted no part of anything he had to say, and threw him under the bus when things got just a little too hot. And now that they're pretty much non-entities, it's about as useful to appeal them as it is to try to get Know-Nothings, Whigs, Bull Moosers and Free Silverers on your side.

    That's why, at least according to other reviews, Murray takes such annoying swipes at "white identity politics." He doesn't like the very people who are the only ones interested in solving what he openly states is the problem. But at the same time appealing to political ghosts.

    The other dead end flaw in Murrayism, related to what I just wrote, is that he has spent a career trying to tell the people who benefit from cognitive stratification that the system of cognitive stratification is a bad thing. Might as well have tried to sell Ronald McDonald on the fact that ground beef is bad for your cardiovascular health. To some people, the bug is the feature.

    A mind slightly more conspiratorial than mine may wonder if Murray even wants that which he considers problems to be solved, and that the fact that he still has cushy employment and some cache of mainstream platform visibility of the sort that, e.g. Sam Francis and Jared Taylor, quickly lost, points to something being suspiciously amiss or not quite right.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @AndrewR, @PhysicistDave

    By center whatever he means normies. He’s trying to appeal to them by flattery. It’s evidently the only tool in his social toolbox. He’s not alone.

    Maybe he’s belatedly trying to rummage around in our rich heritage for others. Better late than never.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    @Desiderius

    No he means Bill Clinton and Joe Biden. He mentioned them by name in the first chapter.

  61. @International Jew
    Baltimore just 6.3?!

    Replies: @Some Guy, @kaganovitch, @anon, @AnotherDad

    Baltimore just 6.3?!

    Not a real surprise. De-industrialization, such as closing the Bethlehem Steel plant, has bad effects on those who remain.

  62. @PhysicistDave
    @RichardTaylor

    RichardTaylor asked:


    If you let Murray and all the HBD’ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There’s an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?
     
    You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.

    This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.


    It is a fight between the ruling parasitic verbalist overclass versus the productive citizens of this country.

    The ruling elite are using Blacks and Hispanics as pawns.

    Revolver News has uncovered evidence that some of the "leaders" of the January 6 "Insurrection" may have been federal agents provocateurs.

    I am beginning to strongly suspect that the same is true of some of you in the "White nationalist movement."

    Or maybe you are just useful dupes.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @RichardTaylor, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Redmen, @res, @Prester John, @GeneralRipper, @anon

    I am still at a loss to understand the QAnon phenomenon. It seems that it has the FBI (or other deep state security agency) finger prints all over it. But so little has been discussed or investigated about it, even in the alternative media.

    Tucker Carlson covered the Revolver piece last night. He’s definitely moving in the right direction.

    • Replies: @RichardTaylor
    @Redmen

    QAnon is a bunch of silly Holy Rollers who engage in wishful thinking. I mean, what's to understand?

    The upshot of PhysDave's comment is that all us White people need to quit worrying about the fate of our people.

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Redmen

    I am still at a loss to understand the QAnon phenomenon.

    I agree, and share your suspicion that if it were not an Interagency Group project to begin with, they took it over when they saw its potential. I understand that a key part of it was that Trump had some plan to round up all the Deep State traitors and we should patiently wait for him to activate it--"Trust the plan," they said. This seems like disinformation that would be very useful to the Deep State.

    When Trump was questioned about Qanon and said he knew nothing about it, I believe he was telling the truth. I participate in a private email list with hundreds of members, some of whom are tin-foil-hat types. I never heard any of them bring up Qanon. I never recall it being brought up by commenters at iSteve. The most I heard about Qanon was from progressives I know, starting late last summer. I guess it was being pushed heavily in their preferred media.

    CNNanon is a far more dangerous and effective promoter of conspiracy theories than Qanon. If you know a progressive, ask if they still believe that Trump colluded with Russia to win the 2016 election, or that Trump called Neo-Nazis "fine people." Odds are they still believe those lies.

  63. This can’t be true. Hispanics are just as law-abiding as whites, except when they are more law abiding. Unz says so. His models prove it. How can we trust reality rather than his models?

    • Replies: @Gaius Gracchus
    @TWS

    Yes, it looks like Murray disproved Ron's "Myth of Hispanic Crime" accidentally... don't expect Ron to admit he was wrong....

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @profnasty
    @TWS

    A fly on the wall sez:
    I live as a 20% minority in a 60/20 Span/Black suburb.we all live separately together.
    Spans usually own a home. Blks, often Sec.8
    Criminally speaking? about what you'd expect.
    I'm reasonably happy here; if somewhat apprehensive. Blacks here are fairly good neighbors in passing. I'd hate to get on the wrong side oneofem.

  64. @Desiderius
    It’s a good start.

    And yeah white identitarianism would be a disaster not because it would be so dangerous to anyone else but because it would be so weak. We have no experience with it and a significant source of our present power* is still predicated on our deracination.

    I think the Establishment intuitively sense that and that’s what they mean when they say the white supremacy is the greatest threat to the US. In that sense it is, and not just the Establishment.

    It would be our mouths writing a check our fists are unprepared to cash.

    * - often now exerted in (organized) criminal ways so shld probably keep in mind when speaking of black criminality

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @Citizen of a Silly Country

    So we should just lay back and take it. Become a hate and discriminated minority until we simply cease to exist as a people.

    Great plan.

    • Disagree: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    No I said that your plan sux because it is demonstrably and bathetically weak, as the Dork Right march in Charlottesville should have showed you.

    As your God Emperor understood you stick with what you know and have experience with. That's being Americans not trying to invent some new Klan this time with more Fyre Festival clusterf*ck.

    As whites we already ARE a hated and discriminated against minority and have been all out lives genius. The deracinated Unruling Class don't count themselves as white - why do you?

    The only people who exist here and now of which we're a part are the American People. You take your best crack at that and let the chips fall where they may. Inventing a new one on the fly isn't how it works. Fight not flight.

    Replies: @anon

  65. Are cops just racistly arresting blacks for ticky-tack property offenses like, say, taking an extra newspaper from the rack?

    Lol! Many localities have made “ticky-tack” property crimes legal. Which means way more actual crime — as in people stealing stuff — yet simultaneously lower crime stats, because nobody is arrested. Win, win!

    As for ticky-tack, cops don’t even arrest flash mobs of blacks who steal hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of merchandise from high-end stores. In truly enlightened places like New York City, criminals just get put back on the street. Indeed, in 2020 there were 482 people released without bail who went on to commit more crimes, including 299 “major” crimes. Social justice!

  66. The two realities that are fundamental to understanding the headlines of 2021 are that, on average, blacks and (to a lesser extent) Hispanics are more crime-prone and less smart than whites (much less Asians).

    If the “lesser extent Hispanics” were broken down by race, how would it go?

    Some … { ahem } … African Americans in the Hispanic pila de leña, to that extent?

  67. @PiltdownMan
    Mostly OT:

    Simone Biles’s brother has murder charges dismissed, leading to chaotic courtroom scene


    An Ohio judge Tuesday dismissed murder and other charges that were filed against Tevin Biles-Thomas, the brother of U.S. Olympic gymnast Simone Biles. The judge’s announcement in a Cuyahoga County courtroom elicited an enraged reaction from a woman who charged toward Biles-Thomas before being restrained by sheriff’s deputies.

    The woman was identified in multiple reports as the mother of one of the men whose death at a 2018 New Year’s Eve party in Cleveland formed the basis of the case. Biles-Thomas, 26, was accused of fatally shooting 19-year-old DelVaunte Johnson and 21-year-old Toshaun Banks in an incident in which 23-year-old DeVaughn Gibson, reportedly the cousin of Biles-Thomas, was also shot to death.

    Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court Judge Joan Synenberg upheld a motion to dismiss from Biles-Thomas’s defense team after she found that the evidence presented by prosecutors was “insufficient to sustain a conviction.” Synenberg cited a witness for the prosecution who testified that she didn’t see the shooter’s face and was only 75 percent certain that clothing visible on surveillance being worn by Biles-Thomas matched her recollection of what the shooter was wearing.

     

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2021/06/15/simone-biles-brother-murder-charges-dismissed/
     
    https://youtu.be/Ylhmd7Q9S40

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Morton's toes

    Do they give Simone Biles’ brother’s height?

  68. I want America to return to the ideal of treating people as individuals,

    Then he wants America to go back to be 90% white. Murray is too smart to not realize that you can’t treat people as individuals in a multi-racial society. That only works in an ethnically homogenous society. He knows this, yet he chooses to live in fantasyland.

    Those of us who want to defend the American creed

    So what exactly is the “American creed” and how did it develop in the first place. If he means the American creed as espoused by Jefferson, I have some bad news for Murray. That American creed was born of Anglo-Saxon ideals, and since culture is downstream from biology, the American creed is American whites, particularly those of English and Scottish stock. The American creed that Murray longs for so desperately will never exist in outside of whites. Look around the world and show many any other people who truly cherish those ideas.

    In the end, what is Murray’s solution to the increasing discrimination against whites and the identity politics of non-whites? Should whites organize and fight back to avoid becoming a despised and discriminated-against minority?

    Absolutely not, says Murray. That would be a “disaster.” A disaster for whom, Mr. Murray? A disaster for well-off whites who can insulate themselves from this anti-white society, whites such as Mr. Murray. Well, maybe.

    But what about working-class and middle-class whites, Mr. Murray? They have less and less to lose in this society, so why not fight back.

    No, says Murray. Let’s just keep doing what we’ve been doing for the past 50 years and hope for the best.

    Murray laughable conclusion shows a man unwilling to follow his own clear logic. It’s a testament to Murray’s intellect that he can hold such opposing ideas in mind at the same time. He really is a genius to believe he reached the correct conclusion.

    • Replies: @Marty T
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    The Gen X, millennial and Gen Z whites are going to have to literally fight for their land and country. The enemy controls almost every institution. Murray is quaint.

  69. Interesting breakdown here, especially white women and Independents. On the other hand the people who matter are missing and as we saw in the late election they’re not much concerned with what the lower castes think, in whatever numbers, as their mouthpieces in media and academia never tire of reminding us.

    It was a Brahmin who gagged Trump (the real coup) while he was still ostensibly President of the United States (an appellation nearing HRE levels of surreality), a Brahmin who overturned the Flynn exoneration (keeping him out of government, off the campaign trail, and subsequently subject to the same gag that Trump wears), and perhaps most importantly on a cultural level a Brahmin who offed Damore.

    All three were wildly at odds with American traditions and norms but entirely unremarkable in a Caste System. Which is what we have and what those Brahmins were imported to construct and enforce.

    Caste is just another word for nothing left but anarcho-tyranny.

    • Agree: J.Ross
    • Replies: @res
    @Desiderius

    Not sure I agree with Scott Greer's take. Look at that 86% for Dems number. Given the non-white numbers I don't see how to get that 86% unless white Democrats were hugely in favor of CRT (and a decent proportion of non-white non-Democrats was against). Do you see any way to make those numbers work?

    Greer would do well to remember that 50% of whites is more people than either blacks or Hispanics (and close to their sum).

    Looking at the poll itself (question 50):
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/1oyiu6tamw/econTabReport.pdf
    We see that unweighted there were 60 blacks, 56 Hispanics, and from 102-113 of each of the four white sex/education categories.

    One interesting wrinkle is that the 30-44 (low middle of four groups) had the highest very favorable response by 10% or more (37% to 27%). Also, you can see the high and low against the middle phenomenon in the income numbers.

    Perhaps try replacing Greer's "affluent whites" strawman with "affluent white Democrats"?

    P.S. Thanks for your caste analysis.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Desiderius

  70. @Desiderius
    @countenance

    By center whatever he means normies. He’s trying to appeal to them by flattery. It’s evidently the only tool in his social toolbox. He’s not alone.

    Maybe he’s belatedly trying to rummage around in our rich heritage for others. Better late than never.

    Replies: @Barnard

    No he means Bill Clinton and Joe Biden. He mentioned them by name in the first chapter.

    • Thanks: Desiderius
  71. @Dieter Kief
    I can't see any sound reason to attack - or even criticize Charles Murray's facts and arguments. His writing in the face of societal reality pretty much boils down to: This and this is so and so (he as an author is thus very close to the virtue of humbleness).
    Ibram X. Kendi on the other hand could be looked upon as the one who makes all kinds of mistakes but is still respected because there are indeed reasons to be angry and feel bad. Whether Ibram X. Kendi would want to see the quite openly stretched out common ground between him and - Steve Sailer's hints at some practical consequences of Murray's findings like calm down, black men. Don't brag about being dangerous and reckless and - murderous, etc. - leave the Gangsta-role model behind, it is doing you no good , try to behave at school ...- whether Ibram X. Kendi would want to embrace such insights is an open - and interesting...question.

    Replies: @Seneca44, @J.Ross, @AndrewR, @Charlesz Martel

    There are almost no reasons to feel angry or bad unless you are considering our totally artificial, voluntarily pursued unforced errors, like trapdooring cops, agitating blacks, inviting cartels, killing pipeline jobs, or overprinting money. Kendi is angry about things that make no sense to be angry about, like being able to cross the street properly.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @J.Ross

    Kendi is angry about things that make no sense to be angry about, like being able to cross the street properly.

    I see that too. As I wrote: Does his actual state of mind necessarily mean that he - for whatever reasons, is absolutely unwilling to - Face the - Seperate Reality (Carlos Castaneda (ok - an ironic remark, I'll admit that right away: I guilty here of being ironic in a context that has the tendency to eradicate irony altogether***...) of Steve Sailer and Charles Murray...


    *** cf. The Name of the Rose - Umberto Eco's - fictional - prove, that there is no laughter, that laughter is even forbidden in some medieval Christian contexts. Let me say here, that many people misread Eco's work as proof, that there'd be no irony and no laughter in the Christian tradition, which is so wrong that - seen from the medieval perspective of the French Fratrasies and the songs by almost all medieval bards (Oswald von Wolkenstein the foremost here) - is best answered with a big - laughter...and an homage to Miguel de Cervantes Don Quichotte who kick-started the modern days (Christian, of course) self-reflective novel, no small feat in itself... Btw. - irony is an offspring or a first cousin at least of - self-reflection.

    Replies: @anon

    , @anon
    @J.Ross

    Kendi is angry about things that make no sense to be angry about, like being able to cross the street properly.

    What does "cross the street properly" actually mean to you vs. Khendi?

    Rules that white people see as common sense seem like some form of aggression to a lot of black people. Behavior that black people see as "just funnin'" look like some form of aggression to a lot of white people.

    Why should a soul brotha have to walk all the way down to the corner and cross at the light? Even during rush hour?

    If Khendi wants to "cross the street" by walking down the middle of it, forcing carloads of white people to slow down, come to a stop, wait, wait some more, wait even more, then maybe go very slowly ... who is to deny him that right to obstruct traffic?

    This is part of the problem civnats have: many black men just don't feel like putting up with white rules, they just like living with indoor plumbing and medicines that work and stuff like that.

  72. @Anon
    Bizarrely, the book has endnotes, and it also has additional online notes.

    For instance, for chapter 1 the note indicated by superscript numeral 1 in the text is:

    1.  In 2001, the Gallup polling organization found that the average American estimated that 32 percent of the population was Black. The correct answer was 12.3 percent....
     
    The online PDF file has notes indicated by page number and quoted text. For chapter 1 the first such note is:

    Page 1: It has been our fate as a nation not to have ideologies, but to be one.

    This quote is attributed to Richard Hofstadter in many books and articles ....
     
    I wish that for the Kindle version they had just put both sets of notes in the book. Also, PDF files are obsolete. Who prints files? Online reading is best done with an HTML file; on the Kindle you want an ebook formatting. PDF files are good for sewing patterns where trans-device dimensional integrity is required, and that's about it.

    Replies: @res, @anon, @Jack D

    In my experience PDF files are useful because they tend to be a more faithful representation of the book (for example, same page numbers, more consistent handling of graphics). Perhaps not as good for reading on an ebook reader, but hardly obsolete IMHO.

    • Agree: ScarletNumber
  73. @PhysicistDave
    @RichardTaylor

    RichardTaylor asked:


    If you let Murray and all the HBD’ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There’s an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?
     
    You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.

    This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.


    It is a fight between the ruling parasitic verbalist overclass versus the productive citizens of this country.

    The ruling elite are using Blacks and Hispanics as pawns.

    Revolver News has uncovered evidence that some of the "leaders" of the January 6 "Insurrection" may have been federal agents provocateurs.

    I am beginning to strongly suspect that the same is true of some of you in the "White nationalist movement."

    Or maybe you are just useful dupes.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @RichardTaylor, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Redmen, @res, @Prester John, @GeneralRipper, @anon

    Thanks for that Revolver News link.

  74. res says:

    I suspect the national black-to-white murder arrest rate ratio is less than 20 to 1 because these 13 towns tend to be fairly expensive ones where white lowlifes can’t afford to live, while black lowlifes tend to live in subsidized housing in conveniently situated central city locations.

    That makes sense. It seems like a similar argument would also apply to the Hispanic numbers.

    That said I, am curious about Ron Unz’s response (as AEN mentioned earlier) to those Hispanic numbers. 5x is a large difference to try to explain away.

    • Replies: @utu
    @res

    I do not see 5x factor in California data. See Table 33 Felony arrests, 2015, page 36

    Crime in California 2015, Kamala D. Harris, California Department of Justice
    https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/cjsc/publications/candd/cd15/cd15.pdf

    Homicide is 2.28x, Rape is 2.10x and Robbery is 1.94x

    Populations of Whites and Hispanics in California were approximately equal.

    Age correction reduces the difference (Hispanic population is much younger) but not to zero when I have tried to do it so I had reservations about Ron Unz's calculation but at the same time I do not see 5x factor.

    Replies: @res

    , @James B. Shearer
    @res

    "That said I, am curious about Ron Unz’s response (as AEN mentioned earlier) to those Hispanic numbers. 5x is a large difference to try to explain away."

    One concern (as alluded to in comment 63) is how mixed Latin/African people are being classified. Sailer has noted that in the US people considered white (European) have a negligible amount of African ancestry. Is that also true of people considered Latin when compiling these statistics? If not the greater African admixture could be affecting the ratio.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer

  75. Is there any plan to look at more than these 13 cities?

    They don’t seem typical. They’re either expensive areas, or college towns.

  76. @Dieter Kief
    I can't see any sound reason to attack - or even criticize Charles Murray's facts and arguments. His writing in the face of societal reality pretty much boils down to: This and this is so and so (he as an author is thus very close to the virtue of humbleness).
    Ibram X. Kendi on the other hand could be looked upon as the one who makes all kinds of mistakes but is still respected because there are indeed reasons to be angry and feel bad. Whether Ibram X. Kendi would want to see the quite openly stretched out common ground between him and - Steve Sailer's hints at some practical consequences of Murray's findings like calm down, black men. Don't brag about being dangerous and reckless and - murderous, etc. - leave the Gangsta-role model behind, it is doing you no good , try to behave at school ...- whether Ibram X. Kendi would want to embrace such insights is an open - and interesting...question.

    Replies: @Seneca44, @J.Ross, @AndrewR, @Charlesz Martel

    Kendi has explicitly said “there is nothing wrong with black people,” meaning: all the problems black people face are due to white people. So no I don’t think he would endorse boomers telling black people to act more like white people.

    Edit: wow someone posted a tweet in this thread where he comes right out and says that.

    “It’s important to teach children that the cause of racial inequality and inequity in our society is the result of structural racism, not the behaviours or the cultures of those people of colour on the lower end” of inequities.

    He and his demonic supporters treat black people as if they have zero agency.

  77. @International Jew
    Baltimore just 6.3?!

    Replies: @Some Guy, @kaganovitch, @anon, @AnotherDad

    Baltimore just 6.3?!

    Snitches get stitches.

  78. @Desiderius
    Arguments of the form "y'all best straighten up or the Saxon gonna begin to hate" defeat themselves because they mistake the nature of the conflict. People like Kendi and his sponsors would like nothing better than for the Saxon to begin to hate (again). Last time the Saxon specifically hated he got pwned so badly his people are still getting anally raped culturally a century later.

    But most of us are not Saxons. The sons of perfidious Albion are significantly cagier than that and of course most of us have already been so beaten down and dis-integrated to where we couldn't afford to respond to these orchestrated provocations if we wanted to. At least with hate.

    The neither Jew nor Greek crew was our help in ages past and is our Hope in years to come. There is no other.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @FPD72, @Ryan Andrews

    Christianity was the religion of the Empire. The Empire is gone, and the Church really hasn’t figured out what to do ever since.

    • Disagree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    The empire’s never been stronger culturally which is ultimately what matters, but they’re running on the fumes of a Christianity (the deracination that’s been the key to their power and influence is a direct descendant of Christian Universalism) they’ve foolishly forsaken.

    No reason for the country to make the same mistake, and we the people haven’t.

  79. @SINCERITY.net
    Murray is very outspoken that high crime low IQ is an established fact about Blacks that need not be argued about. Refreshingly clear language. Not the usual whining begging.
    Lengthy proof of the obvious is a bit tedious, but necessary for the unitiated.

    And, of course, always a bit of cautious hedging to keep the rest of respectability of „civilized“ society.
    Compulsively, he must mention that these averages mean nothing for an individual that is in front of you. Each individual must be judged not by his race.

    If he advised coeds not to get drunk when near black college athletes, then he would have lost the rest of acceptability of our society.

    But Murray speaks most of the race realist truth.


    A great book. Available in audible, too.

    Replies: @Achilleus

    If he advised coeds not to get drunk when near black college athletes, then he would have lost the rest of acceptability of our society.

    Coeds?

  80. @countenance
    I think this is going to give me an opportunity to focus on Charles Murray's work and career from sort of a holistic, top of the mountain looking down, sort of way. Facing a little bit of our own reality.

    I already have the book in a Kindle edition, and I'll eventually get around to reading it, hopefully I can make some time before the three months of almost non-stop work that will be my July, August and September, if not it won't be until things calm down in October.

    But I know that, in the pre-release promotional materials, one of the things that Murray himself wrote about this book is that he wants it to be a call to action to (pph): "All center-leftists and center-rights of good will."

    I reacted right as I read that: What, all five of them?

    And that points to a problem that so many in our sector, including myself, and so many of you reading these words, have had with him. He's really ace about telling us about the problem, then turns right around and bashes and trashes the people and sectors most likely to think that these things he describes are indeed problems and want to solve them. All the while, he's chasing around "center-leftists and center-rightists of good will," the sort of people that, back in the days when they were substantial in number and power, wanted no part of anything he had to say, and threw him under the bus when things got just a little too hot. And now that they're pretty much non-entities, it's about as useful to appeal them as it is to try to get Know-Nothings, Whigs, Bull Moosers and Free Silverers on your side.

    That's why, at least according to other reviews, Murray takes such annoying swipes at "white identity politics." He doesn't like the very people who are the only ones interested in solving what he openly states is the problem. But at the same time appealing to political ghosts.

    The other dead end flaw in Murrayism, related to what I just wrote, is that he has spent a career trying to tell the people who benefit from cognitive stratification that the system of cognitive stratification is a bad thing. Might as well have tried to sell Ronald McDonald on the fact that ground beef is bad for your cardiovascular health. To some people, the bug is the feature.

    A mind slightly more conspiratorial than mine may wonder if Murray even wants that which he considers problems to be solved, and that the fact that he still has cushy employment and some cache of mainstream platform visibility of the sort that, e.g. Sam Francis and Jared Taylor, quickly lost, points to something being suspiciously amiss or not quite right.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @AndrewR, @PhysicistDave

    He’s an old man. Do you expect him to go around leading fights against communists in the street?

    It can be useful to at least publicly pretend that white nationalism is not a viable path forward. It’s increasingly obvious to normies that a “colorblind” approach has led to increasingly anti-white measures as the left refuses to play by the same rules that they conned conservatives into adopting. It’s not hard to put two and two together.

  81. @Anon
    Bizarrely, the book has endnotes, and it also has additional online notes.

    For instance, for chapter 1 the note indicated by superscript numeral 1 in the text is:

    1.  In 2001, the Gallup polling organization found that the average American estimated that 32 percent of the population was Black. The correct answer was 12.3 percent....
     
    The online PDF file has notes indicated by page number and quoted text. For chapter 1 the first such note is:

    Page 1: It has been our fate as a nation not to have ideologies, but to be one.

    This quote is attributed to Richard Hofstadter in many books and articles ....
     
    I wish that for the Kindle version they had just put both sets of notes in the book. Also, PDF files are obsolete. Who prints files? Online reading is best done with an HTML file; on the Kindle you want an ebook formatting. PDF files are good for sewing patterns where trans-device dimensional integrity is required, and that's about it.

    Replies: @res, @anon, @Jack D

    If you don’t like PDF it is trivial to convert that file to HTML, MOBI, EPUB or other formats, plus there are editors for all those formats.

    Just. Search. The. Web.

    This is a non-issue. It’s not even a first-world problem.

  82. So can a single white/Asian vs. Black/Hispanic number be extrapolated?

  83. Somewhat OT

    Chicago makes some changes to speed camera thresholds, rakes in bank. There is a map showing speed-cams on a neighborhood basis that is interesting.

    Of course, it’s all about safety — think of the children!

    https://chicago.cbslocal.com/chicagos-speed-cameras-churn-out-hundreds-of-thousands-of-tickets-after-change/

    • Replies: @Abolish_public_education
    @anon

    It's only fair that speed cameras are situated in school zones.

    25% of the IL state budget goes to public education. Parents caught racing to [drop off / pick up] their kids at/from public daycare, and even those not exceeding 25 mph, should be made to pay.

    As for Open Data's lopsided crime statistics, it's a matter of privilege that folks who:

    • work/contract for the DoD don't get counted as part of Murder Inc.

    • work/contract for the government don't get counted in the armed robbery statistics.

    • take advantage of government spending programs, like public education, don't get counted as accessories after-the-fact.

    You get the idea.

    They don't even get investigated, much less charged.

  84. @Desiderius
    Arguments of the form "y'all best straighten up or the Saxon gonna begin to hate" defeat themselves because they mistake the nature of the conflict. People like Kendi and his sponsors would like nothing better than for the Saxon to begin to hate (again). Last time the Saxon specifically hated he got pwned so badly his people are still getting anally raped culturally a century later.

    But most of us are not Saxons. The sons of perfidious Albion are significantly cagier than that and of course most of us have already been so beaten down and dis-integrated to where we couldn't afford to respond to these orchestrated provocations if we wanted to. At least with hate.

    The neither Jew nor Greek crew was our help in ages past and is our Hope in years to come. There is no other.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @FPD72, @Ryan Andrews

    The neither Jew nor Greek crew was our help in ages past and is our Hope in years to come. There is no other.

    A nice homage to Isaac Watts, with a possible allusion to Edward Mote!

    • Thanks: Desiderius
  85. let’s face reality. charles murray is a pretentious bore with a low IQ.

    These issues are pathetically misunderstood by Charles Murray. In a CNN interview reported in The New Republic (January 2, 1995), Murray declared “When I – when we – say 60 percent heritability, it’s not 60 percent of the variation. It is 60 percent of the IQ in any given person.” Later, he repeated that for the average person, “60 percent of the intelligence comes from heredity” and added that this was true of the “human species,”

  86. @PhysicistDave
    @RichardTaylor

    RichardTaylor asked:


    If you let Murray and all the HBD’ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There’s an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?
     
    You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.

    This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.


    It is a fight between the ruling parasitic verbalist overclass versus the productive citizens of this country.

    The ruling elite are using Blacks and Hispanics as pawns.

    Revolver News has uncovered evidence that some of the "leaders" of the January 6 "Insurrection" may have been federal agents provocateurs.

    I am beginning to strongly suspect that the same is true of some of you in the "White nationalist movement."

    Or maybe you are just useful dupes.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @RichardTaylor, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Redmen, @res, @Prester John, @GeneralRipper, @anon

    “Revolver News has uncovered evidence that some of the “leaders” of the January 6 “Insurrection” may have been federal agents provocateurs.”

    Carlson had somebody on his show from Revolver during which they discussed the findings. Not sure if this is conclusive yet but if it is, it would not surprise. It’s an old police-state trick that’s been around for decades.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  87. anon[393] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    @Steve Sailer

    Chicago is a lab experiment in the the criminality of Blacks vs Hispanics/Mexicans. Blacks, having elected a black mayor, Harold Washington in 1982, began seeing themselves rapidly replaced/deplaced by Mexicans. We can never be sure if it was deliberate or just happened.

    But the city is now very roughly 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 Black/White/Hispanic. And Washington was the last Black mayor, since current mayor, lesbian Lori Lightfoot is more gay than black.

    Everyone prefers a Mexican underclass to Blacks. Is that the root cause of open borders? Or just an unintended benefit.

    But it is striking. Pilsen is a major Hispanic area and is OK. It is literally vibrant, as there is plenty of street food and commerce. Is a "food desert" even conceivable in a Mexican neighborhood? Whereas, Black areas are surprisingly devoid of commercial activity.

    Replies: @anon

    Pilsen is a major Hispanic area and is OK. It is literally vibrant, as there is plenty of street food and commerce. Is a “food desert” even conceivable in a Mexican neighborhood

    I wonder what happens to Persons of Color who try to rob a food truck in Pilsen? How is it different from what happens to Persons of Color who try to rob a corner store in an all-black area?

  88. @Anon
    Bizarrely, the book has endnotes, and it also has additional online notes.

    For instance, for chapter 1 the note indicated by superscript numeral 1 in the text is:

    1.  In 2001, the Gallup polling organization found that the average American estimated that 32 percent of the population was Black. The correct answer was 12.3 percent....
     
    The online PDF file has notes indicated by page number and quoted text. For chapter 1 the first such note is:

    Page 1: It has been our fate as a nation not to have ideologies, but to be one.

    This quote is attributed to Richard Hofstadter in many books and articles ....
     
    I wish that for the Kindle version they had just put both sets of notes in the book. Also, PDF files are obsolete. Who prints files? Online reading is best done with an HTML file; on the Kindle you want an ebook formatting. PDF files are good for sewing patterns where trans-device dimensional integrity is required, and that's about it.

    Replies: @res, @anon, @Jack D

    I agree that PDF is not the best book format but they are not obsolete and have many other uses besides sewing patterns. For example, legal documents.

  89. @Dan Smith
    I’m not an “anti-racist “ in 2021 for the same reason I wouldn’t have been an “anti-communist “ in 1954 even though I strongly oppose racism and communism. The people pushing the anti position are nut jobs like Kendi and Joe McCarthy. Authoritarian goons. No thanks.

    Replies: @William Badwhite

    nut jobs like Kendi and Joe McCarthy

    Except Kendi is wrong and McCarthy was right.

  90. @Desiderius
    Arguments of the form "y'all best straighten up or the Saxon gonna begin to hate" defeat themselves because they mistake the nature of the conflict. People like Kendi and his sponsors would like nothing better than for the Saxon to begin to hate (again). Last time the Saxon specifically hated he got pwned so badly his people are still getting anally raped culturally a century later.

    But most of us are not Saxons. The sons of perfidious Albion are significantly cagier than that and of course most of us have already been so beaten down and dis-integrated to where we couldn't afford to respond to these orchestrated provocations if we wanted to. At least with hate.

    The neither Jew nor Greek crew was our help in ages past and is our Hope in years to come. There is no other.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @FPD72, @Ryan Andrews

    These comments are gibberish. You’re afraid to take a stand. Just come out and say it, and spare us the pretentious psyops.

  91. Verify, then trust.

    Biden’s (and before that all the anti-Trump efforts, especially CNN/MCNBC) always been about peeling off Reaganites from Trump/the country to support anti-Trump/Davos. No surprise to see this latest tho of course he bungled it originally.

    Also note that the reversal encapsulates the betrayal move in the prisoner’s dilemma from the point of view of the betrayer rationalizing the betrayal. It helps if one was taught that verity itself is merely constructed to gain and maintain power. As they were. Veritas indeed, not too much Lux pls.

    They got into this habit due to the cheap grace strategy predominant in the domestic environment (trust, then trust aka the Poz) where they grew fat on being the nearly unrivaled predator. They set the bar for verification and the cheap gracers ask how high not high enough repeat.

    Unlikely to work so well outside the West.

  92. @Seneca44
    @Dieter Kief

    Totally agree and I would pay good money to see Murray vs. Kendi in an open debate. I seriously think such an event could be well monetized on something like a pay per view platform.

    Replies: @Currahee

    Kendi would agree to that only if the event were to be held in front of an exclusively antifa crowd who would immediately physically attack Murray, killing him.

    s

  93. Latinos are arrested for murder about five times more often per capita than whites….. while blacks …

    Ron Unz will need to do some damage control over that statistic.

  94. @RichardTaylor

    I want America to return to the ideal of treating people as individuals
     
    That would be stupid. And it was never true. It's dumb to act like it was.

    Those of us who want to defend the American creed
     
    This is Holy Roller stuff. The American creed? This is the mentality of "defending the faith". CivNats push a form of utopianism.

    If you let Murray and all the HBD'ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There's an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @James N. Kennett, @Anon

    I want America to return to the ideal of treating people as individuals


    If you let Murray and all the HBD’ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There’s an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?

    Racial loyalty is a dead end. Apart from any moral considerations, you will not get most whites to practise it.

    The very best we can do is to treat people as individuals. This gives us the freedom not to sanctify a person who was a career criminal, armed robber, and drug addict. It gives us the freedom not to grant “genius” awards to mediocre writers such as Ta-Nehisi Coates. In short, it allows us to assess people not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

    The present day is not like this. If (say) 1% of whites are doctors but only 0.05% of blacks, we are required to believe that somehow white people have suppressed the black people who could have become doctors. And so we have diversity hiring for medical school. In these circumstances who in their right mind would choose a black surgeon?

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @RichardTaylor
    @James N. Kennett


    Racial loyalty is a dead end. Apart from any moral considerations, you will not get most whites to practise it.
     
    Southern Whites practiced it for 300 years. South African practiced it for a century.

    The problem is, when Whites are off on their own apparently they start believing in silly fantasies about how the world works. As Whites become outnumbered they develop more and more loyalty.

    You're extrapolating how Whites thought in a MidWestern 100% White town long ago. All that is changing.

  95. utu says:
    @res

    I suspect the national black-to-white murder arrest rate ratio is less than 20 to 1 because these 13 towns tend to be fairly expensive ones where white lowlifes can’t afford to live, while black lowlifes tend to live in subsidized housing in conveniently situated central city locations.
     
    That makes sense. It seems like a similar argument would also apply to the Hispanic numbers.

    That said I, am curious about Ron Unz's response (as AEN mentioned earlier) to those Hispanic numbers. 5x is a large difference to try to explain away.

    Replies: @utu, @James B. Shearer

    I do not see 5x factor in California data. See Table 33 Felony arrests, 2015, page 36

    Crime in California 2015, Kamala D. Harris, California Department of Justice
    https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/cjsc/publications/candd/cd15/cd15.pdf

    Homicide is 2.28x, Rape is 2.10x and Robbery is 1.94x

    Populations of Whites and Hispanics in California were approximately equal.

    Age correction reduces the difference (Hispanic population is much younger) but not to zero when I have tried to do it so I had reservations about Ron Unz’s calculation but at the same time I do not see 5x factor.

    • Replies: @res
    @utu

    5x is the figure from the city table Steve reproduced. As he noted and I quoted, probably overstates the overall ratio.

  96. @anon
    Somewhat OT

    Chicago makes some changes to speed camera thresholds, rakes in bank. There is a map showing speed-cams on a neighborhood basis that is interesting.

    Of course, it's all about safety -- think of the children!

    https://chicago.cbslocal.com/chicagos-speed-cameras-churn-out-hundreds-of-thousands-of-tickets-after-change/

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

    It’s only fair that speed cameras are situated in school zones.

    25% of the IL state budget goes to public education. Parents caught racing to [drop off / pick up] their kids at/from public daycare, and even those not exceeding 25 mph, should be made to pay.

    As for Open Data’s lopsided crime statistics, it’s a matter of privilege that folks who:

    • work/contract for the DoD don’t get counted as part of Murder Inc.

    • work/contract for the government don’t get counted in the armed robbery statistics.

    • take advantage of government spending programs, like public education, don’t get counted as accessories after-the-fact.

    You get the idea.

    They don’t even get investigated, much less charged.

  97. Anon[122] • Disclaimer says:
    @RichardTaylor

    I want America to return to the ideal of treating people as individuals
     
    That would be stupid. And it was never true. It's dumb to act like it was.

    Those of us who want to defend the American creed
     
    This is Holy Roller stuff. The American creed? This is the mentality of "defending the faith". CivNats push a form of utopianism.

    If you let Murray and all the HBD'ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There's an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @James N. Kennett, @Anon

    Richard —

    You seem very down on this “treating everyone as equal” (unless they have shown themselves to be unequal) thing. I think you know how deeply I respect you and your opinions… but let’s START at least with the very reasonable demand that we stop kowtowing to the gods of black supremacy. Nobody should find that objectionable.

    Then after we have established again in schools, government policies, etc., that programs that create black supremacy is contrary to (and I will use those words) “the American creed,” then (and only then!) will we become free to exercise our rights to freedom of association, etc., to hang out with the types we want to. We can (and should!) have racial loyalty *privately*, but let’s all be united in pushing for ending race-based government initiatives that are racially shame white children while promoting black supremacy — and the way to do that is fighting for government race neutrality.

    • Replies: @RichardTaylor
    @Anon

    But that is libertarianism from 40 years ago. Not even libertarians indulge those fantasies anymore!

    You're never going to have a rational conversation with non-Whites that convinces them of that position. It was tried by articulate men decades ago.

    Politics will get more racial going forward. See the whole world for examples.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    ...but let’s START at least with the very reasonable demand that we stop kowtowing to the gods of black supremacy. Nobody should find that objectionable.
     
    Like that never-ending fantasy shared by Lost Cause Southrons, SJWs, and BLMers alike of antbellum Africans working hard and covering their exorbitant costs? RT himself finds stopping that kowtowing objectionable.

    I think you know how deeply I respect you and your opinions…
     
    You respect Corv's sockpuppet?
  98. For once, I will be playing the bleeding-heart liberal.

    I actually agree that there are severe social pathologies among American Blacks, and that they are not caused by systemic racism. But I disagree with the view that this is immutable and genetic.

    In the UK, Black Africans get better grades than whites (https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/most-ethnic-minorities-perform-better-than-white-children-at-school-new-government-report-claims). We see something similar in the US, where blacks from Nigeria and Ghana are more educated and have more income than the average american. African immigrants are blacker than African Americans yet they succeed more than Americans? How can that be in an America systemically racist against blacks? Ibram Kendi cannot explain this so he has to be discarded. But then neither can Charles Murray’s genetic thesis. Caribbean blacks in the UK do significantly worse than Western Africans even though they are mostly genetically identical.

    There is a third explanation: it’s the culture. African immigrants in the US do not come with the toxic ideological burden of racial resentment and entitlement, of multi-generational social welfare, of broken families, of contempt for education of African Americans. Therefore they succeed, despite their ‘black genes’. The problem is not the genes, the problem is not systemic racism. The problem is a deeply pathological ghetto black culture.

    The upside is that genes won’t change but a culture can. Not that it is an easy endeavour, but it can happen. To me, the inspiration could come from the NYC Irish in early XIXth century. If what I read in this article (https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-dagger-john-saved-new-york%E2%80%99s-irish-11934.html) is correct, the Irish of the day seemed doomed in a self-perpetuating underclass trap of poverty, violence, drugs, crime. Again according to this account, the Irish (at the time, stories circulated about them being an inferior breed etc) found Jesus, cleaned up their act, shaped up, and became model citizens to the point people forgot there ever used to be a problem about them. People of the time, arguing that the Irish were inferior and not really white, today look like laughable, incomprehensible bigots.

    But if such a cultural evolution is ever to take place, critical race theory needs to fly out the window. Race resentment has to stop. Blacks need to admit they have problems and work to fix them. No taking the knee, indoctrination in the media and the workplace will change that. In fact they will prevent it from ever occuring.

  99. Observations:

    1. Murray is an old man, perhaps protected or not, unable and unwilling to understand all the BS he believed in his entire life was a lie and just wrong, and in any way as dead as the United States.
    2. Kendi is the dominant intellectual because feelings don’t care about facts. Gee 44% of White women with college love love love critical race theory. Wow what a surprise. White women are the schwerpunkt, the pivot point of the cultural battle and for them, street hustling dominant swagger is all. Facts, logic, reason, science don’t matter — just the hustle and swagger. Again, Feelings don’t care about Facts.
    3. Blacks are in some sense the Master Race of the late 20th and early 21st Centuries. Street swagger, low IQ, high violence, that’s chick crack like a Chechen bomber on the cover of Rolling Stone. A full 44% of White women with college love CRT. Yeah no kidding. Feminization of our society in the West creates a ruling caste of KANGZ. Had George Floyd been a Phd candidate who looked like Urkel White women would have forgotten him. He is lionized BECAUSE he was a thug, and a thug always.
    4. Blacks as KANGZ of America is not sustainable. Latinos did flee here to join the Congo. And White men while handy as the forever evil spirits are required to run the military and all that implies.
    ——————
    I see both panic and buyer’s remorse in the higher echelons of the military. Lloyd Austin is purging the military high and low of Whites, which means an all black military, with the effectiveness of the military of say, Ghana or Chad. And the defense spending of contractors to match it.

    You just can’t run the military industrial establishment based on KANGZ and women’s tingles. You can’t. You need nerdy White engineers and you need tip of the spear smart tough guys to fight it out on the ground, in the air, and under the sea. Kangz need not apply.

    The implication of the Chinese Wuhan lab leak is that China was weaponizing bat viruses. To kill everyone else in the world, basically, to take their stuff. That has people worried and scared. Big shot people, not peons.

    As for White Identity, its already baked in. You cannot take back the last twenty years of demonizing all White men as irredeemably evil, erasing them and all their history, heroes, and heritage, and demand they bend the knee and grovel to KANGZ whose only attribute is a room temperature IQ and short fuse. At some point the various stuff the black dudes get up to is going to be spread out into a pogrom, with then a divided Biden Regency offering support and even help. After all, if the elites believe in CRT, the only real alternative is to put all White men into camps until they die. That’s the only outcome of CRT and really the only outcome of Civil Rights. Blacks cannot and will not tolerate White people — they just can’t and won’t. White men find zero in today’s Divine Rights of KANGZ.

    Murray is like a nerd trying to reason a hot woman into arousal. It does not work that way. Women (and the feminized elite) want Divine Rule by Divine KANGZ. They saw Black Panther. That it was just a movie does not matter. They believe it.

    • Replies: @vhrm
    @Whiskey

    Take it easy. You've extrapolated about 10 steps from where we are. For the umpteeteenth time, instead of "it's game over man! game over! " realize that white people are still the majority in this country and hold the majority of the power.

    Your kind of post is, in a way, a white version of black race hustlers who claim that 1619, Emmet Till and redlining are the definition of America and that America always discriminated against blacks, nothing's changed and nothing ever will and all they can do is complain about it.and ask for more reparations and more affirmative action.

  100. @PhysicistDave
    @RichardTaylor

    RichardTaylor asked:


    If you let Murray and all the HBD’ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There’s an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?
     
    You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.

    This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.


    It is a fight between the ruling parasitic verbalist overclass versus the productive citizens of this country.

    The ruling elite are using Blacks and Hispanics as pawns.

    Revolver News has uncovered evidence that some of the "leaders" of the January 6 "Insurrection" may have been federal agents provocateurs.

    I am beginning to strongly suspect that the same is true of some of you in the "White nationalist movement."

    Or maybe you are just useful dupes.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @RichardTaylor, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Redmen, @res, @Prester John, @GeneralRipper, @anon

    When the native born white Americans are gone, America will be gone, you bullshitting race traitor cunt.

    When the native born white Frenchmen are gone, France will be gone.

    When the native born white Irish are gone, Ireland will be gone.

    When the native born white English are gone, England will be gone.

    etc…etc…etc

    Richard Taylor is correct, as usual.

    • Thanks: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @GeneralRipper

    GeneralRipper wrote to me:


    When the native born white Americans are gone, America will be gone, you bullshitting race traitor cunt.
     
    You left out the fact that I am guilty of that greatest of sins, miscegenation.

    In the unlikely even that you have any offspring, you better teach them how to say, "Would you like soy sauce with that?"

    In Mandarin.

    Because if you are all America has, the USA is doomed.
    , @profnasty
    @GeneralRipper

    Testify!!

  101. @Some Guy
    @Luke Lea


    Are low IQ whites, even though roughly seven times (?) less likely to have an IQ under 85 than blacks
     
    About 50% of blacks and 16% of whites have an IQ under 85, so blacks are three times more likely.

    and I’m not sure how even more less likely to have an IQ under 70
     
    Blacks about eight times more likely, excluding low IQ caused by some specific malady.

    Replies: @vhrm, @Luke Lea

    Blacks about eight times more likely, excluding low IQ caused by some specific malady.

    And, incidentally, given that blacks are ~ 1/8th of the population, this is why, even at that low threshold, the problem of “what to do with low IQ in society” is still not primarily (let alone exclusively) about dealing with black people.

  102. @TWS
    This can't be true. Hispanics are just as law-abiding as whites, except when they are more law abiding. Unz says so. His models prove it. How can we trust reality rather than his models?

    Replies: @Gaius Gracchus, @profnasty

    Yes, it looks like Murray disproved Ron’s “Myth of Hispanic Crime” accidentally… don’t expect Ron to admit he was wrong….

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Gaius Gracchus


    ... don’t expect Ron to admit he was wrong….
     
    Ha! That's putting it mildly, Gaius. I'd bet my house against Ron Unz admitting he was wrong on ANYTHING.

    Replies: @res

  103. @Bardon Kaldian
    @PhysicistDave

    Very naive.

    It is true that "ruling elites" in the US, now, do not have real ethnic/national loyalty (unlike in the past). And this differentiates US & affluent Western Europe from every land stretching from Slovakia to Japan.

    But, it is also true that US working & middle classes have nothing in common that would cross racial/ethnic lines. It has always been so. Dynamics between race/people & class almost always, everywhere, favors people, and not a class. While it is simplistic to think that history is a history of class struggle (Marx) or race struggle (Hitler) - as a rule, Hitler was closer to truth than Marx.

    Even famous class struggles (English civil war, French revolution, "Russian" revolution) always end up with a transformed blood-and-soil people, and not in some trans-racial/ethnic harmony.

    In the US (Brazil, Colombia,..), various races function as different peoples. What these peoples should learn is to coexist, if they can. But they are different American peoples, because the American people ceased to exist long time ago.

    Replies: @vhrm, @Peter Akuleyev, @PhysicistDave

    But, it is also true that US working & middle classes have nothing in common that would cross racial/ethnic lines. It has always been so.

    Eh, does anyone really care about white sub-categories in the US currently? Italians vs Irish vs Germans vs WASP ethnicities was (to some degree) a thing in history. Not so much now.

  104. @Bardon Kaldian
    @PhysicistDave

    Very naive.

    It is true that "ruling elites" in the US, now, do not have real ethnic/national loyalty (unlike in the past). And this differentiates US & affluent Western Europe from every land stretching from Slovakia to Japan.

    But, it is also true that US working & middle classes have nothing in common that would cross racial/ethnic lines. It has always been so. Dynamics between race/people & class almost always, everywhere, favors people, and not a class. While it is simplistic to think that history is a history of class struggle (Marx) or race struggle (Hitler) - as a rule, Hitler was closer to truth than Marx.

    Even famous class struggles (English civil war, French revolution, "Russian" revolution) always end up with a transformed blood-and-soil people, and not in some trans-racial/ethnic harmony.

    In the US (Brazil, Colombia,..), various races function as different peoples. What these peoples should learn is to coexist, if they can. But they are different American peoples, because the American people ceased to exist long time ago.

    Replies: @vhrm, @Peter Akuleyev, @PhysicistDave

    It is true that “ruling elites” in the US, now, do not have real ethnic/national loyalty (unlike in the past).

    This has been the general rule in Europe since the Romans. Aristocrats feel loyalty for other aristocrats and just feel sort of entitled to rule whoever is unlucky enough to be living on their property. The Habsburgs were the most obvious example, but England‘s beloved reigning monarch is an ethnic German married to a German whose father was King of Greece. For a short while in the 20th Century the elites decided to go along with nationalism but after two wars and a lot of aristocrats getting killed they have mostly decided that nationalism is not for them – caste loyalty is what matters. Even Russian elites are pretty poor at ethnic loyalty when push comes to shove. That is the one great advantage of the Chinese – their ruling elites will actually work to further the interests of the Chinese people as a whole.

  105. Samizdat. It works until it stops working.
    It will be like a dam bursting. Except with fire instead of water.

    FEDGOV is now an illegitimate Zionist Occupational State.
    However, it lacks the power to rule anything anymore.

    Whites formed their armies and their tax base.
    The brown sludge drains the treasury and tires the eyes with eyesores.

    There will be a Revolution now, again. Civil War II it will be called.
    The Jewish Century is now over. (1913-2016)

    The conditions now ensure that former differences between Whites will be cast aside.
    The White people must group together now for mere survival. THEY WILL.

    NOTHING CAN STOP IT NOW. WHITE IDENTITY LIVES!
    Its almost like a Master Plan where the Jews were stupid stooges. Expendable assets.

    But that’s just another Conspiracy Theory.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

  106. @Redmen
    @PhysicistDave

    I am still at a loss to understand the QAnon phenomenon. It seems that it has the FBI (or other deep state security agency) finger prints all over it. But so little has been discussed or investigated about it, even in the alternative media.

    Tucker Carlson covered the Revolver piece last night. He's definitely moving in the right direction.

    Replies: @RichardTaylor, @Harry Baldwin

    QAnon is a bunch of silly Holy Rollers who engage in wishful thinking. I mean, what’s to understand?

    The upshot of PhysDave’s comment is that all us White people need to quit worrying about the fate of our people.

  107. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/ScottMGreer/status/1405176171592093697?s=20

    Interesting breakdown here, especially white women and Independents. On the other hand the people who matter are missing and as we saw in the late election they’re not much concerned with what the lower castes think, in whatever numbers, as their mouthpieces in media and academia never tire of reminding us.

    It was a Brahmin who gagged Trump (the real coup) while he was still ostensibly President of the United States (an appellation nearing HRE levels of surreality), a Brahmin who overturned the Flynn exoneration (keeping him out of government, off the campaign trail, and subsequently subject to the same gag that Trump wears), and perhaps most importantly on a cultural level a Brahmin who offed Damore.

    All three were wildly at odds with American traditions and norms but entirely unremarkable in a Caste System. Which is what we have and what those Brahmins were imported to construct and enforce.

    Caste is just another word for nothing left but anarcho-tyranny.

    Replies: @res

    Not sure I agree with Scott Greer’s take. Look at that 86% for Dems number. Given the non-white numbers I don’t see how to get that 86% unless white Democrats were hugely in favor of CRT (and a decent proportion of non-white non-Democrats was against). Do you see any way to make those numbers work?

    Greer would do well to remember that 50% of whites is more people than either blacks or Hispanics (and close to their sum).

    Looking at the poll itself (question 50):
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/1oyiu6tamw/econTabReport.pdf
    We see that unweighted there were 60 blacks, 56 Hispanics, and from 102-113 of each of the four white sex/education categories.

    One interesting wrinkle is that the 30-44 (low middle of four groups) had the highest very favorable response by 10% or more (37% to 27%). Also, you can see the high and low against the middle phenomenon in the income numbers.

    Perhaps try replacing Greer’s “affluent whites” strawman with “affluent white Democrats”?

    P.S. Thanks for your caste analysis.

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @res

    Also worth noting, a far greater percentage of Whites are reasonably functional in Spanish as an additional language than Blacks.

    , @Desiderius
    @res

    Exactly.

    https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1405132498472951812?s=20

    I don’t agree with his analysis either, but at least he’s grounded in something real instead of the usual neverneverland. The numbers are interesting.

  108. @utu
    @res

    I do not see 5x factor in California data. See Table 33 Felony arrests, 2015, page 36

    Crime in California 2015, Kamala D. Harris, California Department of Justice
    https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/cjsc/publications/candd/cd15/cd15.pdf

    Homicide is 2.28x, Rape is 2.10x and Robbery is 1.94x

    Populations of Whites and Hispanics in California were approximately equal.

    Age correction reduces the difference (Hispanic population is much younger) but not to zero when I have tried to do it so I had reservations about Ron Unz's calculation but at the same time I do not see 5x factor.

    Replies: @res

    5x is the figure from the city table Steve reproduced. As he noted and I quoted, probably overstates the overall ratio.

  109. @JimDandy
    Great column. Are there any stats that compare the crime/murder rates of poor whites, blacks, and hispanics? I'm guessing a standard woke response to this general discussion would be to say that black rates are higher than white rates because a much higher percentage of blacks are below the poverty line than whites.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Some Guy, @J1234

    I’m guessing a standard woke response to this general discussion would be to say that black rates are higher than white rates because a much higher percentage of blacks are below the poverty line than whites.

    I’d say that’s a pretty good guess. I had a similar discussion via email with a (white leftist) journalism professor at a university back east about five years ago concerning the rate of black unwed birth vs. white unwed birth. He was trying to convince his students that there was no difference between the two once you considered economic status, income, etc. This was cloaked in a contrived “journalistic principle” that statistics can deceive, which is true, but the irony was that he was also using statistics to create his own deeper counter-deception.

    His deception was – in part – presenting his carefully selected statistics as establishing an irrefutable chain of causality: first comes poverty, then comes unwed mothers as a result. There is some truth to the correlation, but both factors can be (and probably are) caused other factors. Also, the out of wedlock birth rate for native US blacks is 75% or more, and has been for years, yet only 25% of native US blacks live below the poverty line, so there are other things going on.

    Another important consideration in out of wedlock birth is the nature of unwed fatherhood. How involved are bio-fathers in the lives of young boys in this situation? How likely is there to be a legitimate step-father later on? How many different children by different partners does an unwed father have?

    All of this segues into crime stats pretty nicely for the obvious reasons. To me, generally speaking, the lives of blacks are a jazz riff and the lives of whites are a cantata. One is experienced in and for the moment and is quite extemporaneous, while the other is orchestrated and composed. Family life and crime statistics flow from this. It’s likely that this is the reason BLM hates the nuclear family so much.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @J1234

    Thanks for this. Very well put. White leftists like the one you describe can only be said to have sinister motives--they'd rather be nice than right, even if their enabling is devastating the people they are pretending to champion.

  110. let’s face reality. charles murray is a pretentious precious bore with a low IQ…genuine white trash.

    These issues are pathetically misunderstood by Charles Murray. In a CNN interview reported in The New Republic (January 2, 1995), Murray declared “When I – when we – say 60 percent heritability, it’s not 60 percent of the variation. It is 60 percent of the IQ in any given person.” Later, he repeated that for the average person, “60 percent of the intelligence comes from heredity” and added that this was true of the “human species,”

  111. @Matttt
    @Steve Sailer

    It's hard to shake the suspicion that, in the U.S., Mexican violent crime is low because the Mexican gangs want it to be low. It's kind of a scary thought. What happens when the Mexican gangs decide that homicidal violence is in their best interest? Black gangs shoot up house parties; Mexican gangs hang bodies from highway overpasses.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

    In other words Mexican violence (excepting domestic violence) is more “thoughtful”, precisely executed and achieves its objectives with much greater efficiency (and fewer, albeit more gruesome deaths) than Black violence.

  112. @res
    @Desiderius

    Not sure I agree with Scott Greer's take. Look at that 86% for Dems number. Given the non-white numbers I don't see how to get that 86% unless white Democrats were hugely in favor of CRT (and a decent proportion of non-white non-Democrats was against). Do you see any way to make those numbers work?

    Greer would do well to remember that 50% of whites is more people than either blacks or Hispanics (and close to their sum).

    Looking at the poll itself (question 50):
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/1oyiu6tamw/econTabReport.pdf
    We see that unweighted there were 60 blacks, 56 Hispanics, and from 102-113 of each of the four white sex/education categories.

    One interesting wrinkle is that the 30-44 (low middle of four groups) had the highest very favorable response by 10% or more (37% to 27%). Also, you can see the high and low against the middle phenomenon in the income numbers.

    Perhaps try replacing Greer's "affluent whites" strawman with "affluent white Democrats"?

    P.S. Thanks for your caste analysis.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Desiderius

    Also worth noting, a far greater percentage of Whites are reasonably functional in Spanish as an additional language than Blacks.

  113. @res
    @Desiderius

    Not sure I agree with Scott Greer's take. Look at that 86% for Dems number. Given the non-white numbers I don't see how to get that 86% unless white Democrats were hugely in favor of CRT (and a decent proportion of non-white non-Democrats was against). Do you see any way to make those numbers work?

    Greer would do well to remember that 50% of whites is more people than either blacks or Hispanics (and close to their sum).

    Looking at the poll itself (question 50):
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/1oyiu6tamw/econTabReport.pdf
    We see that unweighted there were 60 blacks, 56 Hispanics, and from 102-113 of each of the four white sex/education categories.

    One interesting wrinkle is that the 30-44 (low middle of four groups) had the highest very favorable response by 10% or more (37% to 27%). Also, you can see the high and low against the middle phenomenon in the income numbers.

    Perhaps try replacing Greer's "affluent whites" strawman with "affluent white Democrats"?

    P.S. Thanks for your caste analysis.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Desiderius

    Exactly.

    I don’t agree with his analysis either, but at least he’s grounded in something real instead of the usual neverneverland. The numbers are interesting.

  114. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    I want America to return to the ideal of treating people as individuals,
     
    Then he wants America to go back to be 90% white. Murray is too smart to not realize that you can't treat people as individuals in a multi-racial society. That only works in an ethnically homogenous society. He knows this, yet he chooses to live in fantasyland.

    Those of us who want to defend the American creed

    So what exactly is the "American creed" and how did it develop in the first place. If he means the American creed as espoused by Jefferson, I have some bad news for Murray. That American creed was born of Anglo-Saxon ideals, and since culture is downstream from biology, the American creed is American whites, particularly those of English and Scottish stock. The American creed that Murray longs for so desperately will never exist in outside of whites. Look around the world and show many any other people who truly cherish those ideas.

    In the end, what is Murray's solution to the increasing discrimination against whites and the identity politics of non-whites? Should whites organize and fight back to avoid becoming a despised and discriminated-against minority?

    Absolutely not, says Murray. That would be a "disaster." A disaster for whom, Mr. Murray? A disaster for well-off whites who can insulate themselves from this anti-white society, whites such as Mr. Murray. Well, maybe.

    But what about working-class and middle-class whites, Mr. Murray? They have less and less to lose in this society, so why not fight back.

    No, says Murray. Let's just keep doing what we've been doing for the past 50 years and hope for the best.

    Murray laughable conclusion shows a man unwilling to follow his own clear logic. It's a testament to Murray's intellect that he can hold such opposing ideas in mind at the same time. He really is a genius to believe he reached the correct conclusion.

    Replies: @Marty T

    The Gen X, millennial and Gen Z whites are going to have to literally fight for their land and country. The enemy controls almost every institution. Murray is quaint.

  115. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Desiderius

    Christianity was the religion of the Empire. The Empire is gone, and the Church really hasn't figured out what to do ever since.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    The empire’s never been stronger culturally which is ultimately what matters, but they’re running on the fumes of a Christianity (the deracination that’s been the key to their power and influence is a direct descendant of Christian Universalism) they’ve foolishly forsaken.

    No reason for the country to make the same mistake, and we the people haven’t.

  116. The caste analysis is particularly timely in light of the incoming president and India standing up to Janus-faced social media in a way America has failed to. Add to that the vastly increased influence of the Boston Brahmins within the new admin and wokel corporate takeover and the ham-fisted power of their western cousins from Utah in the three-letter agencies and you have an issue whose time has come.

  117. @TheJester
    The effect and impact of shame on the part of Africans thrown into the midst of a more advanced and intelligent Western Civilization has not received much notice.

    I have often thought about how I would see the world if I had been an African living in the United States. I would be ashamed of my race; I would be ashamed of my clan; and I would cringe everytime I glanced through a National Geographic magazine, watched a documentary on sub-Saharan Africa, or watched news shorts on events in sub-Saharan Africa.

    How do Africans feel when they "notice" that there is not one well-managed or successful Black city, large corporation, university, or country on planet earth? Sub-Saharan Africans are not only a custodial population in their relationship with Europeans in the United States, they are also a custodial population amid the human race living off the largesse of Western nations and the UN. Think western medicine, food aid, and other foreign aid that is driving the population explosion in sub-Saharan Africa.

    I would be perpetually angry as an African American male. I would project my feelings onto others as I sought to purge these demonic thoughts from my life. I would be violent because I would be living a comparison I cannot stand and cannot change.

    Sub-Saharan Africans and Europeans mix like oil and water with no prospect of emulsifying into one people. We have experimented with "integration" for over 57 years. It has been an abject failure in the United States and everywhere else it has been tried. South Africa anyone? Hostility has reached a point that even the Africans appear to want racial segregation from a culture and civilization that shames them at every turn.

    Replies: @bomag, @Element59, @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco

    Good observations.

    Small quibble:

    I would be perpetually angry as an African American male. I would project my feelings onto others as I sought to purge these demonic thoughts from my life. I would be violent because I would be living a comparison I cannot stand and cannot change.

    They are not that deep.

    Parasites don’t hate the host; they just do their thing.

  118. @Some Guy
    @Luke Lea


    Are low IQ whites, even though roughly seven times (?) less likely to have an IQ under 85 than blacks
     
    About 50% of blacks and 16% of whites have an IQ under 85, so blacks are three times more likely.

    and I’m not sure how even more less likely to have an IQ under 70
     
    Blacks about eight times more likely, excluding low IQ caused by some specific malady.

    Replies: @vhrm, @Luke Lea

    Thanks

  119. @res

    I suspect the national black-to-white murder arrest rate ratio is less than 20 to 1 because these 13 towns tend to be fairly expensive ones where white lowlifes can’t afford to live, while black lowlifes tend to live in subsidized housing in conveniently situated central city locations.
     
    That makes sense. It seems like a similar argument would also apply to the Hispanic numbers.

    That said I, am curious about Ron Unz's response (as AEN mentioned earlier) to those Hispanic numbers. 5x is a large difference to try to explain away.

    Replies: @utu, @James B. Shearer

    “That said I, am curious about Ron Unz’s response (as AEN mentioned earlier) to those Hispanic numbers. 5x is a large difference to try to explain away.”

    One concern (as alluded to in comment 63) is how mixed Latin/African people are being classified. Sailer has noted that in the US people considered white (European) have a negligible amount of African ancestry. Is that also true of people considered Latin when compiling these statistics? If not the greater African admixture could be affecting the ratio.

    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
    @James B. Shearer

    "... as alluded to in comment 63) .."

    This was the comment by Joe Magarac which has become comment 66 and may change again because comments can get approved out of order.

  120. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Desiderius

    So we should just lay back and take it. Become a hate and discriminated minority until we simply cease to exist as a people.

    Great plan.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    No I said that your plan sux because it is demonstrably and bathetically weak, as the Dork Right march in Charlottesville should have showed you.

    As your God Emperor understood you stick with what you know and have experience with. That’s being Americans not trying to invent some new Klan this time with more Fyre Festival clusterf*ck.

    As whites we already ARE a hated and discriminated against minority and have been all out lives genius. The deracinated Unruling Class don’t count themselves as white – why do you?

    The only people who exist here and now of which we’re a part are the American People. You take your best crack at that and let the chips fall where they may. Inventing a new one on the fly isn’t how it works. Fight not flight.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
    • LOL: profnasty
    • Replies: @anon
    @Desiderius


    No I said that your plan sux because it is demonstrably and bathetically weak, as the Dork Right march in Charlottesville should have showed you.
     
    That march had nothing to say about the propagandistic power of White racial identity and everything to say about the power of jewish-controlled media to immediately intervene and reshape a narrative more conducive to their tribal interests.

    The rest of your comment is idiotic. America is White, or America is not America. A deracinated America is just a market bazaar and trading post with an intrusive surveillance apparatus.
  121. @Elli
    Murray has always had a sense of noblesse oblige.

    A main point of The Bell Curve and Coming Apart is that half of people are below average, by definition; here we are talking about intelligence. So what are the responsibilities of the elite to the below average, Fishtown black or white?

    The elite have failed the Fishtown miserably over the last five decades, primarily by destroying the blue collar wage. It wasn't just unstoppable market forces.

    Replace the role of father and breadwinner with female labor and taxpayers' check, and you tend to create men who have no purpose but Nature's own imperatives.

    Tariffs, enforced borders, a media norm of stable mother and father families, functional schools, safe streets. The elite are capable of achieving these things or at least improving them.

    Finesse and sidestep the race question where you can. Half of everyone is below average. What do the powerful shapers of the country owe them?

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @Dieter Kief, @Bumpkin

    Murray grew up in Newton, Iowa, population 15K or so, which in Iowa terms makes it a biggish small-town, if you know what I mean.

    I grew up in an Iowa town a couple of notches smaller than Newton, but also big enough to have, and build up, its own fairly successful local economy.

    Even in idyllic small towns, half the population is below average. And yet there seems to be a place for almost everyone — economically, socially, religiously.

    Reading Murray over the years, I’ve often gotten the feeling that he’s striving to find a way to help everyone to ‘fit in’ like they did back in Newton. This is not the worst impulse for a social scientist to have, by a long shot.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    And I meant to include the following as my last sentence:

    Unfortunately, the USA in 2021 is not Newton, Iowa, circa 1957.

  122. The premise is that the political elite really believe this stuff, or have deluded themselves.
    Do they really? I doubt it. Or is there some ulterior motive for our Cultural Revolution.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @ringo starr search

    ringo starr search asked:


    The premise is that the political elite really believe this stuff, or have deluded themselves.
    Do they really? I doubt it. Or is there some ulterior motive for our Cultural Revolution.
     
    Well, let's see... A guy puts on a dress and declares he is a female. And our ruling elite did so badly in middle-school biology that they believe it? Probably not.

    Or let's look at their actions. How many of them choose to live in the middle of a black ghetto and send their kids to the local neighborhood ghetto schools?

    No, they don't believe it. It is partly a matter of lying to prove their loyalty to the group with which they identify -- rather like a guy putting up with Hell Week to join a frat (or, just to annoy my friend R.G. Camara, like Catholics who claim to believe that the wine and wafer are really blood and flesh).

    And even more importantly, the purpose is to prove their power over the rest of us. They do not really care if we believe the lies. In fact, it is much better if we do not believe the lies.

    The whole point is to force us to surrender our integrity and sense of dignity by publicly agreeing to statements that we know to be lies.

    Havel explained it in his essay, "The Power of the Powerless," with his parable of the greengrocer.

  123. @James N. Kennett
    @RichardTaylor



    I want America to return to the ideal of treating people as individuals
     
    ...
    If you let Murray and all the HBD’ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There’s an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?
     
    Racial loyalty is a dead end. Apart from any moral considerations, you will not get most whites to practise it.

    The very best we can do is to treat people as individuals. This gives us the freedom not to sanctify a person who was a career criminal, armed robber, and drug addict. It gives us the freedom not to grant "genius" awards to mediocre writers such as Ta-Nehisi Coates. In short, it allows us to assess people not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

    The present day is not like this. If (say) 1% of whites are doctors but only 0.05% of blacks, we are required to believe that somehow white people have suppressed the black people who could have become doctors. And so we have diversity hiring for medical school. In these circumstances who in their right mind would choose a black surgeon?

    Replies: @RichardTaylor

    Racial loyalty is a dead end. Apart from any moral considerations, you will not get most whites to practise it.

    Southern Whites practiced it for 300 years. South African practiced it for a century.

    The problem is, when Whites are off on their own apparently they start believing in silly fantasies about how the world works. As Whites become outnumbered they develop more and more loyalty.

    You’re extrapolating how Whites thought in a MidWestern 100% White town long ago. All that is changing.

  124. @Anon
    @RichardTaylor

    Richard --

    You seem very down on this "treating everyone as equal" (unless they have shown themselves to be unequal) thing. I think you know how deeply I respect you and your opinions... but let's START at least with the very reasonable demand that we stop kowtowing to the gods of black supremacy. Nobody should find that objectionable.

    Then after we have established again in schools, government policies, etc., that programs that create black supremacy is contrary to (and I will use those words) "the American creed," then (and only then!) will we become free to exercise our rights to freedom of association, etc., to hang out with the types we want to. We can (and should!) have racial loyalty *privately*, but let's all be united in pushing for ending race-based government initiatives that are racially shame white children while promoting black supremacy -- and the way to do that is fighting for government race neutrality.

    Replies: @RichardTaylor, @Reg Cæsar

    But that is libertarianism from 40 years ago. Not even libertarians indulge those fantasies anymore!

    You’re never going to have a rational conversation with non-Whites that convinces them of that position. It was tried by articulate men decades ago.

    Politics will get more racial going forward. See the whole world for examples.

  125. @James B. Shearer
    @res

    "That said I, am curious about Ron Unz’s response (as AEN mentioned earlier) to those Hispanic numbers. 5x is a large difference to try to explain away."

    One concern (as alluded to in comment 63) is how mixed Latin/African people are being classified. Sailer has noted that in the US people considered white (European) have a negligible amount of African ancestry. Is that also true of people considered Latin when compiling these statistics? If not the greater African admixture could be affecting the ratio.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer

    “… as alluded to in comment 63) ..”

    This was the comment by Joe Magarac which has become comment 66 and may change again because comments can get approved out of order.

  126. In January 2020, Murray published a long, scholarly book, Human Diversity: The Biology of Gender, Race, and Class, a meta-meta-analysis of the latest meta-analyses in the human sciences. It received virtually zero publicity.

    How about meta-publicity? Or meta-meta-publicity?

    Which of those is Unz.com and which Taki?

  127. @Anon
    @RichardTaylor

    Richard --

    You seem very down on this "treating everyone as equal" (unless they have shown themselves to be unequal) thing. I think you know how deeply I respect you and your opinions... but let's START at least with the very reasonable demand that we stop kowtowing to the gods of black supremacy. Nobody should find that objectionable.

    Then after we have established again in schools, government policies, etc., that programs that create black supremacy is contrary to (and I will use those words) "the American creed," then (and only then!) will we become free to exercise our rights to freedom of association, etc., to hang out with the types we want to. We can (and should!) have racial loyalty *privately*, but let's all be united in pushing for ending race-based government initiatives that are racially shame white children while promoting black supremacy -- and the way to do that is fighting for government race neutrality.

    Replies: @RichardTaylor, @Reg Cæsar

    …but let’s START at least with the very reasonable demand that we stop kowtowing to the gods of black supremacy. Nobody should find that objectionable.

    Like that never-ending fantasy shared by Lost Cause Southrons, SJWs, and BLMers alike of antbellum Africans working hard and covering their exorbitant costs? RT himself finds stopping that kowtowing objectionable.

    I think you know how deeply I respect you and your opinions…

    You respect Corv’s sockpuppet?

  128. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Elli

    Murray grew up in Newton, Iowa, population 15K or so, which in Iowa terms makes it a biggish small-town, if you know what I mean.

    I grew up in an Iowa town a couple of notches smaller than Newton, but also big enough to have, and build up, its own fairly successful local economy.

    Even in idyllic small towns, half the population is below average. And yet there seems to be a place for almost everyone -- economically, socially, religiously.

    Reading Murray over the years, I've often gotten the feeling that he's striving to find a way to help everyone to 'fit in' like they did back in Newton. This is not the worst impulse for a social scientist to have, by a long shot.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    And I meant to include the following as my last sentence:

    Unfortunately, the USA in 2021 is not Newton, Iowa, circa 1957.

  129. @Whiskey
    Observations:

    1. Murray is an old man, perhaps protected or not, unable and unwilling to understand all the BS he believed in his entire life was a lie and just wrong, and in any way as dead as the United States.
    2. Kendi is the dominant intellectual because feelings don't care about facts. Gee 44% of White women with college love love love critical race theory. Wow what a surprise. White women are the schwerpunkt, the pivot point of the cultural battle and for them, street hustling dominant swagger is all. Facts, logic, reason, science don't matter -- just the hustle and swagger. Again, Feelings don't care about Facts.
    3. Blacks are in some sense the Master Race of the late 20th and early 21st Centuries. Street swagger, low IQ, high violence, that's chick crack like a Chechen bomber on the cover of Rolling Stone. A full 44% of White women with college love CRT. Yeah no kidding. Feminization of our society in the West creates a ruling caste of KANGZ. Had George Floyd been a Phd candidate who looked like Urkel White women would have forgotten him. He is lionized BECAUSE he was a thug, and a thug always.
    4. Blacks as KANGZ of America is not sustainable. Latinos did flee here to join the Congo. And White men while handy as the forever evil spirits are required to run the military and all that implies.
    ------------------
    I see both panic and buyer's remorse in the higher echelons of the military. Lloyd Austin is purging the military high and low of Whites, which means an all black military, with the effectiveness of the military of say, Ghana or Chad. And the defense spending of contractors to match it.

    You just can't run the military industrial establishment based on KANGZ and women's tingles. You can't. You need nerdy White engineers and you need tip of the spear smart tough guys to fight it out on the ground, in the air, and under the sea. Kangz need not apply.

    The implication of the Chinese Wuhan lab leak is that China was weaponizing bat viruses. To kill everyone else in the world, basically, to take their stuff. That has people worried and scared. Big shot people, not peons.

    As for White Identity, its already baked in. You cannot take back the last twenty years of demonizing all White men as irredeemably evil, erasing them and all their history, heroes, and heritage, and demand they bend the knee and grovel to KANGZ whose only attribute is a room temperature IQ and short fuse. At some point the various stuff the black dudes get up to is going to be spread out into a pogrom, with then a divided Biden Regency offering support and even help. After all, if the elites believe in CRT, the only real alternative is to put all White men into camps until they die. That's the only outcome of CRT and really the only outcome of Civil Rights. Blacks cannot and will not tolerate White people -- they just can't and won't. White men find zero in today's Divine Rights of KANGZ.

    Murray is like a nerd trying to reason a hot woman into arousal. It does not work that way. Women (and the feminized elite) want Divine Rule by Divine KANGZ. They saw Black Panther. That it was just a movie does not matter. They believe it.

    Replies: @vhrm

    Take it easy. You’ve extrapolated about 10 steps from where we are. For the umpteeteenth time, instead of “it’s game over man! game over! ” realize that white people are still the majority in this country and hold the majority of the power.

    Your kind of post is, in a way, a white version of black race hustlers who claim that 1619, Emmet Till and redlining are the definition of America and that America always discriminated against blacks, nothing’s changed and nothing ever will and all they can do is complain about it.and ask for more reparations and more affirmative action.

  130. @J1234
    @JimDandy


    I’m guessing a standard woke response to this general discussion would be to say that black rates are higher than white rates because a much higher percentage of blacks are below the poverty line than whites.
     
    I'd say that's a pretty good guess. I had a similar discussion via email with a (white leftist) journalism professor at a university back east about five years ago concerning the rate of black unwed birth vs. white unwed birth. He was trying to convince his students that there was no difference between the two once you considered economic status, income, etc. This was cloaked in a contrived "journalistic principle" that statistics can deceive, which is true, but the irony was that he was also using statistics to create his own deeper counter-deception.

    His deception was - in part - presenting his carefully selected statistics as establishing an irrefutable chain of causality: first comes poverty, then comes unwed mothers as a result. There is some truth to the correlation, but both factors can be (and probably are) caused other factors. Also, the out of wedlock birth rate for native US blacks is 75% or more, and has been for years, yet only 25% of native US blacks live below the poverty line, so there are other things going on.

    Another important consideration in out of wedlock birth is the nature of unwed fatherhood. How involved are bio-fathers in the lives of young boys in this situation? How likely is there to be a legitimate step-father later on? How many different children by different partners does an unwed father have?

    All of this segues into crime stats pretty nicely for the obvious reasons. To me, generally speaking, the lives of blacks are a jazz riff and the lives of whites are a cantata. One is experienced in and for the moment and is quite extemporaneous, while the other is orchestrated and composed. Family life and crime statistics flow from this. It's likely that this is the reason BLM hates the nuclear family so much.

    Replies: @JimDandy

    Thanks for this. Very well put. White leftists like the one you describe can only be said to have sinister motives–they’d rather be nice than right, even if their enabling is devastating the people they are pretending to champion.

  131. anon[143] • Disclaimer says:
    @PhysicistDave
    @RichardTaylor

    RichardTaylor asked:


    If you let Murray and all the HBD’ers have power, they would shaft White people over and over in failed attempts to make their pretty visions come true. There’s an arrogance in that combined with a total lack of racial loyalty. How is that moral?
     
    You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.

    This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.


    It is a fight between the ruling parasitic verbalist overclass versus the productive citizens of this country.

    The ruling elite are using Blacks and Hispanics as pawns.

    Revolver News has uncovered evidence that some of the "leaders" of the January 6 "Insurrection" may have been federal agents provocateurs.

    I am beginning to strongly suspect that the same is true of some of you in the "White nationalist movement."

    Or maybe you are just useful dupes.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @RichardTaylor, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Redmen, @res, @Prester John, @GeneralRipper, @anon

    You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.

    This is a stale bromide. The ruling trash don’t divide and conquer; they exploit and profit. Racial divisions and conflict aren’t created by the elite. Rather, those antagonisms are pre-existing, self-evident consequences of forcing different races under the same geopolitical umbrella, which the elite leverage for their benefit. These naturally emergent racial divisions can be inflamed or suppressed, but never summoned out of thin air by a Deep State focus group.

    This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.

    Unfortunately, it is, as long as Whites and blacks have to share the same lebensraum.

    It is a fight between the ruling parasitic verbalist overclass versus the productive citizens of this country.

    It’s that, too. A multi-pronged fight is not an impossibility.

    The ruling elite are using Blacks and Hispanics as pawns.

    Which the elite can easily do because blacks and hispanics are behaviorally different from Whites, and have different life outcomes, causing racial resentments and a pliable audience that a malicious overlord party would have no trouble enlisting as foot soldiers for the elite’s cause.

    I am beginning to strongly suspect that the same is true of some of you in the “White nationalist movement.”

    Or maybe you are just useful dupes.

    Maybe you should stick to physics and leave the common sense grasp of reality to those who aren’t deracinated IQ assortating fetishists.

    • Agree: GeneralRipper
    • Thanks: PhysicistDave
    • Troll: Corvinus
    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @anon

    anon[143] wrote to me:



    [Dave] You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.
     
    [anon] This is a stale bromide. The ruling trash don’t divide and conquer; they exploit and profit.
     
    Been a while since you took Latin, eh?

    "Impera" does not mean conquer. It means rule.

    And, yes, the parasitic verbalist overclass does indeed divide and rule.

    The genetically inferior White nationalist also wrote:


    These naturally emergent racial divisions can be inflamed or suppressed, but never summoned out of thin air by a Deep State focus group.
     
    Well, your overlords in the ruling elite certainly are inflaming them to serve their own interests. That was my point.

    And you're helping them.

    The genetically inferior White nationalist also wrote:



    [Dave] This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.
     
    [The genetically inferior White nationalist] Unfortunately, it is, as long as Whites and blacks have to share the same lebensraum.
     
    And that is forever.

    You see, this is just as much their country as it is yours.

    Unless all of your ancestors go back to Jamestown, there were Blacks in this country before some of your ancestors arrived.

    You got some plan to get rid of them? Spell it out and please give your name so that the decent people can chase you out of the country before you chase out our Black fellow citizens.

    I mean it: I value their lives more than I value yours. Kicking you out will improve the gene pool.

    Replies: @Sam Malone

  132. @TheJester
    The effect and impact of shame on the part of Africans thrown into the midst of a more advanced and intelligent Western Civilization has not received much notice.

    I have often thought about how I would see the world if I had been an African living in the United States. I would be ashamed of my race; I would be ashamed of my clan; and I would cringe everytime I glanced through a National Geographic magazine, watched a documentary on sub-Saharan Africa, or watched news shorts on events in sub-Saharan Africa.

    How do Africans feel when they "notice" that there is not one well-managed or successful Black city, large corporation, university, or country on planet earth? Sub-Saharan Africans are not only a custodial population in their relationship with Europeans in the United States, they are also a custodial population amid the human race living off the largesse of Western nations and the UN. Think western medicine, food aid, and other foreign aid that is driving the population explosion in sub-Saharan Africa.

    I would be perpetually angry as an African American male. I would project my feelings onto others as I sought to purge these demonic thoughts from my life. I would be violent because I would be living a comparison I cannot stand and cannot change.

    Sub-Saharan Africans and Europeans mix like oil and water with no prospect of emulsifying into one people. We have experimented with "integration" for over 57 years. It has been an abject failure in the United States and everywhere else it has been tried. South Africa anyone? Hostility has reached a point that even the Africans appear to want racial segregation from a culture and civilization that shames them at every turn.

    Replies: @bomag, @Element59, @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco

    Ahh, but these self-critical reflections may be beyond most Sub-Saharans, as is reasoning in abstractions. The concepts of reflection and shame are adaptive characteristics of the Western European mind that when projected onto other racial groups, invites danger.

  133. anon[143] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    No I said that your plan sux because it is demonstrably and bathetically weak, as the Dork Right march in Charlottesville should have showed you.

    As your God Emperor understood you stick with what you know and have experience with. That's being Americans not trying to invent some new Klan this time with more Fyre Festival clusterf*ck.

    As whites we already ARE a hated and discriminated against minority and have been all out lives genius. The deracinated Unruling Class don't count themselves as white - why do you?

    The only people who exist here and now of which we're a part are the American People. You take your best crack at that and let the chips fall where they may. Inventing a new one on the fly isn't how it works. Fight not flight.

    Replies: @anon

    No I said that your plan sux because it is demonstrably and bathetically weak, as the Dork Right march in Charlottesville should have showed you.

    That march had nothing to say about the propagandistic power of White racial identity and everything to say about the power of jewish-controlled media to immediately intervene and reshape a narrative more conducive to their tribal interests.

    The rest of your comment is idiotic. America is White, or America is not America. A deracinated America is just a market bazaar and trading post with an intrusive surveillance apparatus.

    • Thanks: profnasty
  134. @Bardon Kaldian
    @PhysicistDave

    Very naive.

    It is true that "ruling elites" in the US, now, do not have real ethnic/national loyalty (unlike in the past). And this differentiates US & affluent Western Europe from every land stretching from Slovakia to Japan.

    But, it is also true that US working & middle classes have nothing in common that would cross racial/ethnic lines. It has always been so. Dynamics between race/people & class almost always, everywhere, favors people, and not a class. While it is simplistic to think that history is a history of class struggle (Marx) or race struggle (Hitler) - as a rule, Hitler was closer to truth than Marx.

    Even famous class struggles (English civil war, French revolution, "Russian" revolution) always end up with a transformed blood-and-soil people, and not in some trans-racial/ethnic harmony.

    In the US (Brazil, Colombia,..), various races function as different peoples. What these peoples should learn is to coexist, if they can. But they are different American peoples, because the American people ceased to exist long time ago.

    Replies: @vhrm, @Peter Akuleyev, @PhysicistDave

    Bardon Kaldian wrote to me:

    But, it is also true that US working & middle classes have nothing in common that would cross racial/ethnic lines. It has always been so.

    Well, let’s see… nothing in common except for the fact that they are countrymen. And, oh yeah, the fact that they share a common language and common culture. And that they are all exploited by the (largely White) parasitic verbalist overclass. And that they want to live decent lives for themselves and their families.

    But except for all that…

    BK also wrote:

    While it is simplistic to think that history is a history of class struggle (Marx) or race struggle (Hitler) – as a rule, Hitler was closer to truth than Marx.

    So, now the mask comes off.

    I do really wonder if our White nationalist friends are witting tools of the ruling elite? Or are they just attracted to the homo-erotic aspects of Nazism?

    Let’s take your comment seriously: exactly how did the racial solidarity thing work for Hitler? Did all the “Aryans” in England and Norway and the USA rally to support Hitler? Or did everyone rally to support his native country? Sort of like us civnats?

    I am not advocating class analysis along the lines of that Johnny-come-lately faker, Karl Marx. Class analysis originated among nineteenth-century libertarians who drew the same distinction I am drawing between the productive members of society and the parasites who use the state to live off the productive members.

    BK also wrote:

    In the US (Brazil, Colombia,..), various races function as different peoples. What these peoples should learn is to coexist, if they can.

    The ruling elite does not want us to get along: divide et impera.

    And White nationalists are falling into their trap.

    White nationalists are tools of the ruling elite.

    • Replies: @jsm
    @PhysicistDave

    PPPPTTT. As if blacks would EVER unite with us. They'd unite long enough to get our gibs -- and then run screaming like the cowards they are as soon as it became clear the fighting was gonna get a little tough, just like they do when administering beatdowns in the street and Whitey swings back. YOU are the fool, here.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    , @BlackFlag
    @PhysicistDave


    And that they are all exploited by the (largely White) parasitic verbalist overclass.
     
    I think there might be a largely White free-rider individualist middling class that refuses to join sides when everyone else is ready to throw down and even when their group is being attacked. In fact, in the latter case, their free-rider behavior may become even more pronounced and they may even turn on their own group. I wonder if you find this phenotype in chimpanzees and wolves.
  135. @RichardTaylor
    @PhysicistDave

    This is version 23 of the claim, "whatever is going on, RACE has nothing to do with it.

    Of course, this message is only given to White audiences.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    Richard Taylor wrote to me:

    This is version 23 of the claim, “whatever is going on, RACE has nothing to do with it.

    Of course, this message is only given to White audiences.

    Not in the slightest. This is version 23 of the claim that the ruling elite is intentionally inflaming racial differences in order to set the peasants against each other so that they will not unite to fight their common enemy — the parasitic verbalist overclass.

    And you are, I think, intentionally helping the ruling elite.

    • Replies: @RichardTaylor
    @PhysicistDave

    Well PhysicistDave, it's a bit odd to take the position that RACE doesn't matter on a blog that is devoted to racial differences and how much they matter.

    You aren't on any Black, Asian or Latino blog lecturing them.

    Once again, it's always the "CivNats" harming the interests of Whites and only Whites.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    , @John Johnson
    @PhysicistDave

    Not in the slightest. This is version 23 of the claim that the ruling elite is intentionally inflaming racial differences in order to set the peasants against each other so that they will not unite to fight their common enemy — the parasitic verbalist overclass.

    Inflamed racial differences didn't turn what Europeans once described as the Paris of the West into modern Detroit.

    The Bantu of Haiti killed off their ruling elite and now they depend on UN gruel.

    Without accounting for race any worker's revolution would just return to nature denying stupidity.

    Anyways go to Detroit or Baltimore and start your people's revolution there. Good luck. The far-left groups of the 60s and 70s stopped working with Blacks even though they claimed to represent them against the White power structure. There were a lot of complaints about Black revolutionaries expecting sex from the White women.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

  136. @GeneralRipper
    @PhysicistDave

    When the native born white Americans are gone, America will be gone, you bullshitting race traitor cunt.

    When the native born white Frenchmen are gone, France will be gone.

    When the native born white Irish are gone, Ireland will be gone.

    When the native born white English are gone, England will be gone.

    etc...etc...etc

    Richard Taylor is correct, as usual.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @profnasty

    GeneralRipper wrote to me:

    When the native born white Americans are gone, America will be gone, you bullshitting race traitor cunt.

    You left out the fact that I am guilty of that greatest of sins, miscegenation.

    In the unlikely even that you have any offspring, you better teach them how to say, “Would you like soy sauce with that?”

    In Mandarin.

    Because if you are all America has, the USA is doomed.

    • Troll: GeneralRipper
  137. @PhysicistDave
    @RichardTaylor

    Richard Taylor wrote to me:


    This is version 23 of the claim, “whatever is going on, RACE has nothing to do with it.

    Of course, this message is only given to White audiences.
     
    Not in the slightest. This is version 23 of the claim that the ruling elite is intentionally inflaming racial differences in order to set the peasants against each other so that they will not unite to fight their common enemy -- the parasitic verbalist overclass.

    And you are, I think, intentionally helping the ruling elite.

    Replies: @RichardTaylor, @John Johnson

    Well PhysicistDave, it’s a bit odd to take the position that RACE doesn’t matter on a blog that is devoted to racial differences and how much they matter.

    You aren’t on any Black, Asian or Latino blog lecturing them.

    Once again, it’s always the “CivNats” harming the interests of Whites and only Whites.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @RichardTaylor

    RichardTaylor wrote to me:


    Well PhysicistDave, it’s a bit odd to take the position that RACE doesn’t matter on a blog that is devoted to racial differences and how much they matter.
     
    Well, Richie, the fellow who runs this blog, Steve Sailer, has made pretty clear that he is a civic nationalist!

    Steve is interested, as I am interested, in genetic differences among human beings: the average differences between groups as well as the differences between genetically inferior individuals such as yourself and normal humans.

    And let's be frank here: the White nationalists do tend to be genetic losers. I mean, Ricky Spencer could not manage to slip a ring onto any White American girl, and the East European girl he managed to get put up with him for -- what? -- eight years at most, right?

    And little Greg Johnson? I mean, Greggy got a degree in philosophy. Not the kind of fellow who could do something productive -- you know, fly an airplane, rebuild a car engine, program a computer.

    Yeah, I am interested in the genetic differences among human beings, which is why I would love to see a research project that sequences Spencer's, Johnson's, and, of course, your DNA to try to ascertain why you all are genetically inferior.

    Hey! The "White Nationalist Genetic Inferiority Project" -- work with me and maybe we can get funding, eh?

    (Yeah, yeah, everyone: I know, Because Mozart, Darwin, Beethoven, Gauss, Shakespeare, et al. had superior genes -- and because they were White! -- therefore Richie, Ricky, and Greggy must alos have superior genes. Genetics does not work that way. Every sufficiently extended family, even those with geniuses, has its genetic defectives. And among Whites, we have a name for our genetic defectives: "White nationalists.")

  138. Given all this evidence for a difference in average cognitive ability across races, how can the US legal system maintain the doctrine that disparate impact is prima facie evidence of discrimination? Does there have to be any coherence between accumulated evidence and legal policies? Charles Murray absolutely destroys the empirical foundation for disparate impact as a legal doctrine in this book.

    The book (or maybe pamphlet?) is an easy read; clear and convincing. I hope it is widely read, at least in policy and legal circles. It really could put the kibosh on disparate impact legal rulings, if clever lawyers started citing it.

  139. @TheJester
    The effect and impact of shame on the part of Africans thrown into the midst of a more advanced and intelligent Western Civilization has not received much notice.

    I have often thought about how I would see the world if I had been an African living in the United States. I would be ashamed of my race; I would be ashamed of my clan; and I would cringe everytime I glanced through a National Geographic magazine, watched a documentary on sub-Saharan Africa, or watched news shorts on events in sub-Saharan Africa.

    How do Africans feel when they "notice" that there is not one well-managed or successful Black city, large corporation, university, or country on planet earth? Sub-Saharan Africans are not only a custodial population in their relationship with Europeans in the United States, they are also a custodial population amid the human race living off the largesse of Western nations and the UN. Think western medicine, food aid, and other foreign aid that is driving the population explosion in sub-Saharan Africa.

    I would be perpetually angry as an African American male. I would project my feelings onto others as I sought to purge these demonic thoughts from my life. I would be violent because I would be living a comparison I cannot stand and cannot change.

    Sub-Saharan Africans and Europeans mix like oil and water with no prospect of emulsifying into one people. We have experimented with "integration" for over 57 years. It has been an abject failure in the United States and everywhere else it has been tried. South Africa anyone? Hostility has reached a point that even the Africans appear to want racial segregation from a culture and civilization that shames them at every turn.

    Replies: @bomag, @Element59, @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco

    Yet most blacks are extremely proud of their history and believe Blacks created civilization and are superior to whites. Blacks have no shame about their race.

    Blacks have much higher self-esteem than whites, and are more proud of their race than whites.

    Blacks blame racist whites for their problems. Whites also blame racism for the problems of Black run cities and Black pathologies. While Blacks have the excuse of being less intelligent than whites, yet whites are the ones teaching Blacks that all their problems are due to evil racist whites and systemic invisible racism.

  140. @Achmed E. Newman
    Mr. Sailer, if you have read VDare's occasional contributor F. Roger Devlin's quick review of this book (right up top today on this site), can you tell us if you agree with his conclusion? Mr. Devlin has no problem with Charles Murray's statistics and all that, but he doesn't agree with Mr. Murray's opinion that White people's getting together in solidarity to fight all this will be "a disaster". What do you think?

    Secondly, I now wonder if the proprietor here, Mr. Unz, will have any type of correction or argument regarding the Hispanic crime rate, per Mr. Murray's book. I can see a lot of comments coming on this.

    I would hope the readers/commenters here know where I stand on both of these questions.

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe

    We do, Ach. We do indeed.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  141. the optimistic centrist education reformers of the “All We Have To Do Is Implement My Favorite Panacea” school are finally out of fashion

    Not with Scott Adams. He attaches all blame for the low intellectual achievement of blacks on the teachers’ unions, which oppose school choice. Scott claims that with school choice, blacks would perform as well as any other group. While I applaud the effort to delegitimize the teachers’ unions, one of the staunchest supporters of progressivism, this is such a transparent lie that it makes me embarrassed for Scott. He is too intelligent to believe this, yet he will repeat it endlessly. He always claims that he never lies to his listeners, that, right or wrong, he says what he truly believes, but I don’t buy it.

    I understand the need to avoid saying something that will result in instant banishment from the public square, and thus the loss to contribute anything of value, but there must be some better alternative than to give support to the prevailing lie. Other prominent voices that won’t touch this third rail include Heather Mac Donald and Ann Coulter (who blames fatherless homes). Rush Limbaugh simply avoided this particular topic, which I consider better than lying about it.
    It’s the biggest problem that we aren’t allowed to discuss honestly and I don’t know how that will change.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Harry Baldwin

    While I applaud the effort to delegitimize the teachers’ unions, one of the staunchest supporters of progressivism, this is such a transparent lie that it makes me embarrassed for Scott. He is too intelligent to believe this, yet he will repeat it endlessly. He always claims that he never lies to his listeners, that, right or wrong, he says what he truly believes, but I don’t buy it.

    Well this is exactly what Rush Limbaugh did.

    Convinced millions that the teacher's unions were holding back Black kids. In reality a lot of those teachers were in an extremely taxing situation and in comes Con Inc to tell them that they are to blame for Black areas.

    I understand the need to avoid saying something that will result in instant banishment from the public square, and thus the loss to contribute anything of value, but there must be some better alternative than to give support to the prevailing lie.

    I don't see why one lie is better than another.

    Con Inc still lies about teacher's unions to this day even though charter schools have been tried numerous times in Black areas.
    `

  142. @Triteleia Laxa
    Great observation:

    But nobody anymore asks blacks to do better.

    Asking people to do better, rather than castigating or coddling them, requires you to respect them.

    Black people know this on some level. They are constantly talking about feeling disrespected.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Achmed E. Newman, @Ben the Layabout

    Black people know this on some level. They are constantly talking about feeling disrespected.

    Yes, a common complaint we hear from black students at elite colleges is about people making them feel they don’t belong there. Because they don’t, and on some level they know it.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Harry Baldwin

    It is often best to take distressed people's feelings literally, but their explanations figuratively.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    , @anonymous
    @Harry Baldwin


    Yes, a common complaint we hear from black students at elite colleges is about people making them feel they don’t belong there. Because they don’t, and on some level they know it.
     
    The solution is to mix the two races into one. And that’s what we are going about doing.
  143. @Harry Baldwin
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Black people know this on some level. They are constantly talking about feeling disrespected.

    Yes, a common complaint we hear from black students at elite colleges is about people making them feel they don't belong there. Because they don't, and on some level they know it.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @anonymous

    It is often best to take distressed people’s feelings literally, but their explanations figuratively.

    • Agree: res
    • Thanks: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Triteleia Laxa


    It is often best to take distressed people’s feelings literally, but their explanations figuratively.
     
    Meaning to act paternalistically when necessary, I'd assume. Being not too principled or consequent. Act wisely rather than being overly just (= by being hooked onto equality not least).
    So: Don't fool yourself by acting rather principled than wise. - Move; don't jump.
    Or jump, don't move. But don't try to move-jump or jump-move, unless you are Mick Jagger. In that case, being Jumping Jack Flash might well be a gas, gas gas, yeah! and might catapult you in a sphere, where resolved and unresolved problems merge and - finally transcend themselves alltogehter.
  144. jsm says:
    @PhysicistDave
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Bardon Kaldian wrote to me:


    But, it is also true that US working & middle classes have nothing in common that would cross racial/ethnic lines. It has always been so.
     
    Well, let's see... nothing in common except for the fact that they are countrymen. And, oh yeah, the fact that they share a common language and common culture. And that they are all exploited by the (largely White) parasitic verbalist overclass. And that they want to live decent lives for themselves and their families.

    But except for all that...

    BK also wrote:

    While it is simplistic to think that history is a history of class struggle (Marx) or race struggle (Hitler) – as a rule, Hitler was closer to truth than Marx.
     
    So, now the mask comes off.

    I do really wonder if our White nationalist friends are witting tools of the ruling elite? Or are they just attracted to the homo-erotic aspects of Nazism?

    Let's take your comment seriously: exactly how did the racial solidarity thing work for Hitler? Did all the "Aryans" in England and Norway and the USA rally to support Hitler? Or did everyone rally to support his native country? Sort of like us civnats?

    I am not advocating class analysis along the lines of that Johnny-come-lately faker, Karl Marx. Class analysis originated among nineteenth-century libertarians who drew the same distinction I am drawing between the productive members of society and the parasites who use the state to live off the productive members.

    BK also wrote:

    In the US (Brazil, Colombia,..), various races function as different peoples. What these peoples should learn is to coexist, if they can.
     
    The ruling elite does not want us to get along: divide et impera.

    And White nationalists are falling into their trap.

    White nationalists are tools of the ruling elite.

    Replies: @jsm, @BlackFlag

    PPPPTTT. As if blacks would EVER unite with us. They’d unite long enough to get our gibs — and then run screaming like the cowards they are as soon as it became clear the fighting was gonna get a little tough, just like they do when administering beatdowns in the street and Whitey swings back. YOU are the fool, here.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @jsm

    jsm wrote to me:


    PPPPTTT. As if blacks would EVER unite with us.
     
    Well, of course, Blacks would not unite with you. After all, you are part of the genetically inferior "White Nationalist Movement," right?

    No sane and sober person wants to unite with you. No sane and sober person wants to go out to dinner with you or have you as a next-door neighbor. And then there is the little problems of getting any normal, attractive girls to date you, right?

    Hey! Are you willing to have your genome sequenced for the “White Nationalist Genetic Inferiority Project”, assuming we can get funding of course? If we can add enough of you guys, I think we can make real progress on the source of your genetic inferiority!

    Who knows? With CRSPR/Cas9, maybe we can even do some modifications to your somatic cells so that you have a chance of making it with a normal girl? Ah, probably not, probably beyond our technological capabilities in this century!

    Replies: @jsm

  145. @GeneralRipper
    @PhysicistDave

    When the native born white Americans are gone, America will be gone, you bullshitting race traitor cunt.

    When the native born white Frenchmen are gone, France will be gone.

    When the native born white Irish are gone, Ireland will be gone.

    When the native born white English are gone, England will be gone.

    etc...etc...etc

    Richard Taylor is correct, as usual.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @profnasty

    Testify!!

  146. @TWS
    This can't be true. Hispanics are just as law-abiding as whites, except when they are more law abiding. Unz says so. His models prove it. How can we trust reality rather than his models?

    Replies: @Gaius Gracchus, @profnasty

    A fly on the wall sez:
    I live as a 20% minority in a 60/20 Span/Black suburb.we all live separately together.
    Spans usually own a home. Blks, often Sec.8
    Criminally speaking? about what you’d expect.
    I’m reasonably happy here; if somewhat apprehensive. Blacks here are fairly good neighbors in passing. I’d hate to get on the wrong side oneofem.

  147. “In January 2020, Murray published a long, scholarly book, Human Diversity: The Biology of Gender, Race, and Class, a meta-meta-analysis of the latest meta-analyses in the human sciences. It received virtually zero publicity.”

    Right, virtually, Mr. Sailer.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/books/review-human-diversity-charles-murray.html

    Possibly, I’d hazard, by Murray himself. “Human Diversity” has all the bulk of authority. A synthesis of research on the putative differences between the sexes and races, it’s rich with statistical analysis. It’s a curious fact, however, that Murray — who lambastes the unwillingness of politically correct social scientists to look dispassionately at the data — publishes his books under such carefully controlled circumstances. Advance review copies of “The Bell Curve” were not distributed, as Nicholas Lemann has noted. Early readers were handpicked and, on one occasion, flown to Washington by the American Enterprise Institute and briefed by Murray himself. “Human Diversity,” too, appears to have been parsimoniously circulated; the earliest reviews have been found at sympathetic outlets like The National Review.

    Take Murray’’s description of male brains as “systemizers” and female brains as “empathizers,” drawing on work of the psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen. Men are drawn to things, in other words, and women to people. (You’ll recognize this terminology from James Damore’s diversity letter to Google.) This rubric becomes an organizing principle in the book, explaining the typically gendered vocations for men and women (Things Jobs and People Jobs). What Murray avoids discussing are the profound questions surrounding one of the studies that scaffold his thinking.

    In 2000, Baron-Cohen and colleagues published a study of day-old babies that found that boys looked at mobiles longer (hence “systemizers”) and girls at faces (“empathizers”). This study has never been replicated, not even by Baron-Cohen. It was also poorly designed: for one, some of the newborns were propped up; their gaze might have been mediated by how they were held. Not to mention the core question, as posed by the psychologist Cordelia Fine, who has written extensively about bias in research on sex differences in the brain: “Why think that what a newborn prefers to look at provides any kind of window, however grimy, into their future abilities and interests?”

    Stranger still are the inconsistencies. “Race is a construct” is among the tenets Murray seeks to dismantle. Yet tucked midway through the book is the bland assertion that his evidence does not “deny the many ways in which race is a social construct.” There is no genetic basis for race. It is a social and legal definition — a young, crude one at that, overlaid on the tangled realities of ancestral heredity. “Ancestral populations” might be more apt, he concedes. Not 40 pages later, however, he’s back to huffing at the “elite wisdom” that “race is a social construct.” Murray appears to want it both ways: to gesture at a more nuanced and precise formulation but also to harness, when he chooses, the raw rhetorical power of railing against woke dogmas about race.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Corvinus

    Corvinus quoted a critical review of Charles Murray:


    There is no genetic basis for race. It is a social and legal definition — a young, crude one at that, overlaid on the tangled realities of ancestral heredity. “Ancestral populations” might be more apt, he concedes.
     
    Corvy, have you read Harvard Professor David Reich's brilliant Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the New Science of the Human Past ? Reich and his fellow researchers have shed a fascinating light on human history and prehistory by taking advantage of the fact that genetic differences among human races and ethnic groups are real.

    To be sure, one of Reich's major themes is also that human races are mutable over the millennia: every race is a result of "race mixing" in the past. Kind of a downer for some of our racialist friends around here, but not a problem at all for Murray or Sailer.
  148. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Luke Lea


    One thing I’ve not seen is the black/white murder rates corrected for IQ. Are low IQ whites, even though roughly seven times (?) less likely to have an IQ under 85 than blacks (and I’m not sure how even more less likely to have an IQ under 70) comparatively violent? That would be good to know.
     
    One of the things I distinctly recall Murray having said while being interviewed about The Bell Curve is that low IQ blacks and whites present differently - a 70 IQ black man is perceived as somewhat normal in all respects, while a 70 IQ white man would present with what would be easily perceived as the result of some sort of "brain insult."

    Therefore my surmise is that the very low IQ white person would either be in some sort of institutional setting or other support network for morons and would likely have a childlike outlook. He would not be a good candidate for gang membership or semi-organized criminal activity even as a hanger-on. Therefore he's not likely to get into situations in which the commission of murder are likely.

    Replies: @profnasty, @Ben the Layabout

    ‘is’
    You broached the word *murder*.
    Scary, man! My town has numeral Black immigrants from Haiti, Bahamas, Africa, Canada. All we have in common is the air we breathe. Which, I’m sure they brought various virii along with them in their bindle.
    We believe small exposure to virisuses promotes resistance, maybe even immunity, to said virene.
    I thank them for that.

  149. @Harry Baldwin
    the optimistic centrist education reformers of the “All We Have To Do Is Implement My Favorite Panacea” school are finally out of fashion

    Not with Scott Adams. He attaches all blame for the low intellectual achievement of blacks on the teachers' unions, which oppose school choice. Scott claims that with school choice, blacks would perform as well as any other group. While I applaud the effort to delegitimize the teachers' unions, one of the staunchest supporters of progressivism, this is such a transparent lie that it makes me embarrassed for Scott. He is too intelligent to believe this, yet he will repeat it endlessly. He always claims that he never lies to his listeners, that, right or wrong, he says what he truly believes, but I don't buy it.

    I understand the need to avoid saying something that will result in instant banishment from the public square, and thus the loss to contribute anything of value, but there must be some better alternative than to give support to the prevailing lie. Other prominent voices that won't touch this third rail include Heather Mac Donald and Ann Coulter (who blames fatherless homes). Rush Limbaugh simply avoided this particular topic, which I consider better than lying about it.
    It's the biggest problem that we aren't allowed to discuss honestly and I don't know how that will change.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    While I applaud the effort to delegitimize the teachers’ unions, one of the staunchest supporters of progressivism, this is such a transparent lie that it makes me embarrassed for Scott. He is too intelligent to believe this, yet he will repeat it endlessly. He always claims that he never lies to his listeners, that, right or wrong, he says what he truly believes, but I don’t buy it.

    Well this is exactly what Rush Limbaugh did.

    Convinced millions that the teacher’s unions were holding back Black kids. In reality a lot of those teachers were in an extremely taxing situation and in comes Con Inc to tell them that they are to blame for Black areas.

    I understand the need to avoid saying something that will result in instant banishment from the public square, and thus the loss to contribute anything of value, but there must be some better alternative than to give support to the prevailing lie.

    I don’t see why one lie is better than another.

    Con Inc still lies about teacher’s unions to this day even though charter schools have been tried numerous times in Black areas.
    `

  150. anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Black people know this on some level. They are constantly talking about feeling disrespected.

    Yes, a common complaint we hear from black students at elite colleges is about people making them feel they don't belong there. Because they don't, and on some level they know it.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @anonymous

    Yes, a common complaint we hear from black students at elite colleges is about people making them feel they don’t belong there. Because they don’t, and on some level they know it.

    The solution is to mix the two races into one. And that’s what we are going about doing.

  151. @Charles Pewitt
    Charles Murray says:

    I am also aware of a paradox: I want America to return to the ideal of treating people as individuals, so I have to write a book that treats Americans as groups. But there’s no way around it. Those of us who want to defend the American creed have been unwilling to say openly that races have significant group differences. Since we have been unwilling to say that, we have been defenseless against claims that racism is to blame for unequal outcomes. What else could it be? We have been afraid to answer candidly.

    I say:

    You gotta talk about group differences in IQ because if you don't the JEW/WASP Ruling Class of the American Empire will just use their propaganda apparatus to harp on about so-called "White Supremacy" and so-called "White Nationalism" and all the other anti-White propaganda endlessly repeated in the ruling class controlled mass media.

    Blacks and Mestizos/Amerindians are less intelligent, on average, than Whites and Northeastern Asians(Chinese, Koreans, Japanese...) and Blacks commit a hugely disproportionate amount of violent crime in the USA.

    Murray must be ignored when he frets about WHITES organizing politically to advance and defend their interests as WHITES, and Murray seems to be carrying water for the JEW/WASP Ruling Class of the American Empire.

    WHITE IDENTITY POLITICS IS THE WAY TO GO

    I wrote this in May of 2021 about Charles Murray and the Ruling Class and Whites advancing their interests as Whites:

    The Concrete Congos are gonna get worse and the Concrete Congos in the Swamp City DC area are gonna be the worst of the worst and Muttonhead Murray just wrote a book that makes the case for low Black innate IQ and the only way to counterattack the Democrat Party storyline of so-called “racism” accounting for the racial school test gap is to say matter of factly that the Blacks are on average less intelligent than Whites and Asians(Chinese, Koreans, Japanese).

    The billionaires and the multi-millionaires and the Upper Middle Class Snot Brats are using Blacks as a shield to prevent the proper focus of financial plundering and wealth concentration in the hands of the top ten percent.

    The hostile Blacks are merciful; the billionaires and the multi-millionaires and the Upper Middle Class Snot Brats are the dreaded enemy.

    Obama and Biden and Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer are Democrat Party hypocrites who use Blacks as a shield to give cover to the plundering of the USA by money-grubbing top ten percent wealth holder scum. Obama and Biden and Hillary Clinton live in wealthy areas free of Blacks because Obama and Biden and Hillary Clinton will do everything in their power to avoid having any interactions at all with Blacks.

    The Republican Party exists partly to capture and make docile any attempt to dislodge the JEW/WASP Ruling Class of the American Empire from power. The Republican Party exists partly to prevent Whites from advancing their own interests as Whites. The evil ruling class of the GOP must be obliterated.

    Blacks are hypocrites too because plenty of Blacks do everything in their power to avoid having to live around large concentrations of Blacks.

    Jews have a disproportionate control over the propaganda apparatus in the USA.

    Blacks are the violent perpetrators of a disproportionate amount of violent crime in the USA.

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/fisticuff-the-police/#comment-4677931

    Replies: @Travis

    Charles Murray is lying when he pretends to fear whites will unite as a group. There will be too few whites to matter in another decade. Already most whites in America are elderly or near retirement age. There are twice as many elderly Whites as young Whites in America today. These elderly whites are not a threat to the establishment they helped build. Young whites are more and more likely to marry non-whites. Working Class white males will be marrying Hispanic females as more middle class whites marry Asians. Blacks will have more to fret over when Whites are no longer the majority.

    • Replies: @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    @Travis

    It really is stunning to see the steep decline of the white population in the United States. The 2020 census will be the first time in history that the Number of whites had declined over the previous decade. the unheralded decline in the number of fertile whites demonstrated we have entered the demographic death spiral. Too late to reverse , even a moratorium on all immigration will not prevent the death spiral. White fertility would need to triple just to maintain the current white population.

    , @Liza
    @Travis


    Blacks will have more to fret over when Whites are no longer the majority.
     
    Bingo.
  152. @Redmen
    @PhysicistDave

    I am still at a loss to understand the QAnon phenomenon. It seems that it has the FBI (or other deep state security agency) finger prints all over it. But so little has been discussed or investigated about it, even in the alternative media.

    Tucker Carlson covered the Revolver piece last night. He's definitely moving in the right direction.

    Replies: @RichardTaylor, @Harry Baldwin

    I am still at a loss to understand the QAnon phenomenon.

    I agree, and share your suspicion that if it were not an Interagency Group project to begin with, they took it over when they saw its potential. I understand that a key part of it was that Trump had some plan to round up all the Deep State traitors and we should patiently wait for him to activate it–“Trust the plan,” they said. This seems like disinformation that would be very useful to the Deep State.

    When Trump was questioned about Qanon and said he knew nothing about it, I believe he was telling the truth. I participate in a private email list with hundreds of members, some of whom are tin-foil-hat types. I never heard any of them bring up Qanon. I never recall it being brought up by commenters at iSteve. The most I heard about Qanon was from progressives I know, starting late last summer. I guess it was being pushed heavily in their preferred media.

    CNNanon is a far more dangerous and effective promoter of conspiracy theories than Qanon. If you know a progressive, ask if they still believe that Trump colluded with Russia to win the 2016 election, or that Trump called Neo-Nazis “fine people.” Odds are they still believe those lies.

  153. @Travis
    @Charles Pewitt

    Charles Murray is lying when he pretends to fear whites will unite as a group. There will be too few whites to matter in another decade. Already most whites in America are elderly or near retirement age. There are twice as many elderly Whites as young Whites in America today. These elderly whites are not a threat to the establishment they helped build. Young whites are more and more likely to marry non-whites. Working Class white males will be marrying Hispanic females as more middle class whites marry Asians. Blacks will have more to fret over when Whites are no longer the majority.

    https://twitter.com/JDKnox4/status/1405583104337645569?s=20

    Replies: @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco, @Liza

    It really is stunning to see the steep decline of the white population in the United States. The 2020 census will be the first time in history that the Number of whites had declined over the previous decade. the unheralded decline in the number of fertile whites demonstrated we have entered the demographic death spiral. Too late to reverse , even a moratorium on all immigration will not prevent the death spiral. White fertility would need to triple just to maintain the current white population.

  154. @PhysicistDave
    @RichardTaylor

    Richard Taylor wrote to me:


    This is version 23 of the claim, “whatever is going on, RACE has nothing to do with it.

    Of course, this message is only given to White audiences.
     
    Not in the slightest. This is version 23 of the claim that the ruling elite is intentionally inflaming racial differences in order to set the peasants against each other so that they will not unite to fight their common enemy -- the parasitic verbalist overclass.

    And you are, I think, intentionally helping the ruling elite.

    Replies: @RichardTaylor, @John Johnson

    Not in the slightest. This is version 23 of the claim that the ruling elite is intentionally inflaming racial differences in order to set the peasants against each other so that they will not unite to fight their common enemy — the parasitic verbalist overclass.

    Inflamed racial differences didn’t turn what Europeans once described as the Paris of the West into modern Detroit.

    The Bantu of Haiti killed off their ruling elite and now they depend on UN gruel.

    Without accounting for race any worker’s revolution would just return to nature denying stupidity.

    Anyways go to Detroit or Baltimore and start your people’s revolution there. Good luck. The far-left groups of the 60s and 70s stopped working with Blacks even though they claimed to represent them against the White power structure. There were a lot of complaints about Black revolutionaries expecting sex from the White women.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @John Johnson

    Detroit and Philadelphia and Baltimore impress me because what happens there is so massive - up in your face (Ferguson too). I would really want to know what rather liberally oriented minds (Brett Weinstein, say) think would be the right cure for these structures.
    Another question I have in mind at times is: What do they think would the timeline for their (imagined?) measures to succeed - when would that be? - In - what: Thirty years? Or rather in fifty years? And what would happen in the meantime?
    No pun, no irony: I know that these are rather hard questions.

  155. @Travis
    @Charles Pewitt

    Charles Murray is lying when he pretends to fear whites will unite as a group. There will be too few whites to matter in another decade. Already most whites in America are elderly or near retirement age. There are twice as many elderly Whites as young Whites in America today. These elderly whites are not a threat to the establishment they helped build. Young whites are more and more likely to marry non-whites. Working Class white males will be marrying Hispanic females as more middle class whites marry Asians. Blacks will have more to fret over when Whites are no longer the majority.

    https://twitter.com/JDKnox4/status/1405583104337645569?s=20

    Replies: @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco, @Liza

    Blacks will have more to fret over when Whites are no longer the majority.

    Bingo.

  156. @PiltdownMan
    Mostly OT:

    Simone Biles’s brother has murder charges dismissed, leading to chaotic courtroom scene


    An Ohio judge Tuesday dismissed murder and other charges that were filed against Tevin Biles-Thomas, the brother of U.S. Olympic gymnast Simone Biles. The judge’s announcement in a Cuyahoga County courtroom elicited an enraged reaction from a woman who charged toward Biles-Thomas before being restrained by sheriff’s deputies.

    The woman was identified in multiple reports as the mother of one of the men whose death at a 2018 New Year’s Eve party in Cleveland formed the basis of the case. Biles-Thomas, 26, was accused of fatally shooting 19-year-old DelVaunte Johnson and 21-year-old Toshaun Banks in an incident in which 23-year-old DeVaughn Gibson, reportedly the cousin of Biles-Thomas, was also shot to death.

    Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court Judge Joan Synenberg upheld a motion to dismiss from Biles-Thomas’s defense team after she found that the evidence presented by prosecutors was “insufficient to sustain a conviction.” Synenberg cited a witness for the prosecution who testified that she didn’t see the shooter’s face and was only 75 percent certain that clothing visible on surveillance being worn by Biles-Thomas matched her recollection of what the shooter was wearing.

     

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2021/06/15/simone-biles-brother-murder-charges-dismissed/
     
    https://youtu.be/Ylhmd7Q9S40

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Morton's toes

    I couldn’t find the perp’s height (his sister is 4 ft 8 in) but I did find out that the mayhem occurred at a party in an Airbnb rental on New Years Eve.

    https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/08/olympic-gold-medalist-simone-biles-brother-charged-in-cleveland-triple-homicide.html

    Also he was active duty Army when he and his buddies crashed the party hard.

  157. @Dieter Kief
    I can't see any sound reason to attack - or even criticize Charles Murray's facts and arguments. His writing in the face of societal reality pretty much boils down to: This and this is so and so (he as an author is thus very close to the virtue of humbleness).
    Ibram X. Kendi on the other hand could be looked upon as the one who makes all kinds of mistakes but is still respected because there are indeed reasons to be angry and feel bad. Whether Ibram X. Kendi would want to see the quite openly stretched out common ground between him and - Steve Sailer's hints at some practical consequences of Murray's findings like calm down, black men. Don't brag about being dangerous and reckless and - murderous, etc. - leave the Gangsta-role model behind, it is doing you no good , try to behave at school ...- whether Ibram X. Kendi would want to embrace such insights is an open - and interesting...question.

    Replies: @Seneca44, @J.Ross, @AndrewR, @Charlesz Martel

    “Steve Sailer’s hints at some practical consequences of Murray’s findings like calm down, black men. Don’t brag about being dangerous and reckless and – murderous, etc. – leave the Gangsta-role model behind, it is doing you no good , try to behave at school …”

    The simple reason that blacks will not change their behavior is because it gets them sexual success with black women, hispanic women, white women, and asian women, in varying degrees. Being seen as a “Bad Ass” is catnip to women. What man on earth voluntarily gives up behavior that leads to a higher percentage of sexual success?
    If we seriously wanted to change black men’s behavior we would work on trying to change what primarily black women (and others) find sexually alluring.

    Good luck with that.

    I commented on this last night. My comment seems to have been vaporized. Pity. It was better written.

    Paging Whiskey!

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Charlesz Martel

    I know that too - it - for reasons I don#t quite get - is difficult to write the same text twice. - Thanks for doing it, Charlesz Martel.
    I put your point a bit bluntly: The obvious over-sexualization of our societies brings with it unintended (=negative, too) consequences. - and this is the iSteve part of this story: What I said in the lines above is true not least for blacks - - - .

    , @Dieter Kief
    @Charlesz Martel

    I know that too - it - for reasons I don't quite get - is difficult to write the same text twice. - Thanks for trying anyway, Charlesz Martel.
    I put your point a bit bluntly: The obvious over-sexualization of our societies brings with it unintended (=negative, too) consequences. - and this is the iSteve part of this story: What I said in the lines above is true not least for blacks - - - .

  158. @J.Ross
    @Dieter Kief

    There are almost no reasons to feel angry or bad unless you are considering our totally artificial, voluntarily pursued unforced errors, like trapdooring cops, agitating blacks, inviting cartels, killing pipeline jobs, or overprinting money. Kendi is angry about things that make no sense to be angry about, like being able to cross the street properly.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @anon

    Kendi is angry about things that make no sense to be angry about, like being able to cross the street properly.

    I see that too. As I wrote: Does his actual state of mind necessarily mean that he – for whatever reasons, is absolutely unwilling to – Face the – Seperate Reality (Carlos Castaneda (ok – an ironic remark, I’ll admit that right away: I guilty here of being ironic in a context that has the tendency to eradicate irony altogether***…) of Steve Sailer and Charles Murray…

    *** cf. The Name of the Rose – Umberto Eco’s – fictional – prove, that there is no laughter, that laughter is even forbidden in some medieval Christian contexts. Let me say here, that many people misread Eco’s work as proof, that there’d be no irony and no laughter in the Christian tradition, which is so wrong that – seen from the medieval perspective of the French Fratrasies and the songs by almost all medieval bards (Oswald von Wolkenstein the foremost here) – is best answered with a big – laughter…and an homage to Miguel de Cervantes Don Quichotte who kick-started the modern days (Christian, of course) self-reflective novel, no small feat in itself… Btw. – irony is an offspring or a first cousin at least of – self-reflection.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Dieter Kief

    Name of the Rose was Eco's first fictional work, if I recall correctly, and there was some awkward stiffness to it.

    A better alternative is Baudolino. I bought my copy by complete accident in a used bookstore, knowing nothing about it at all, except that I already knew how to travel with a salmon and wished to read more Eco. It does not disappoint, and is worth reading more than once.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

  159. @Elli
    Murray has always had a sense of noblesse oblige.

    A main point of The Bell Curve and Coming Apart is that half of people are below average, by definition; here we are talking about intelligence. So what are the responsibilities of the elite to the below average, Fishtown black or white?

    The elite have failed the Fishtown miserably over the last five decades, primarily by destroying the blue collar wage. It wasn't just unstoppable market forces.

    Replace the role of father and breadwinner with female labor and taxpayers' check, and you tend to create men who have no purpose but Nature's own imperatives.

    Tariffs, enforced borders, a media norm of stable mother and father families, functional schools, safe streets. The elite are capable of achieving these things or at least improving them.

    Finesse and sidestep the race question where you can. Half of everyone is below average. What do the powerful shapers of the country owe them?

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @Dieter Kief, @Bumpkin

    Finesse and sidestep the race question where you can. Half of everyone is below average. What do the powerful shapers of the country owe them?

    The one crucial point in this analysis that might (?) separate Steve from Charles Murray. Because here Steve insists: It’s not only gratifications which are at stake, but also – guidance.
    I’d even add mental and social/societal structures, that work for the below-average people too. Seen from a Swiss perspective, it is at times hard and sour work and means an enormous amount of (that’s very unpleasant for the libertarians around here) – public spending, to achieve these goals. – Since the Swiss do achieve these goals (other than the Swedes, say) with regard to their below-average immigrants too, I’d say (from my own Swiss experience in that field even) that it is not a futile approach.
    But it is not only expensive but dependant on a rather perfect public school system. at least this system (and strict policing, too, and yes: Also for minor offenses (that is part of Steve Sailer’s guidance part, I’d hold***) is what success is based on most dearly.
    *** and that too is not cheap. Swiss police are also (as teachers, psychotherapists speech-therapists social workers, etc….) quite well paid…

  160. anon[750] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross
    @Dieter Kief

    There are almost no reasons to feel angry or bad unless you are considering our totally artificial, voluntarily pursued unforced errors, like trapdooring cops, agitating blacks, inviting cartels, killing pipeline jobs, or overprinting money. Kendi is angry about things that make no sense to be angry about, like being able to cross the street properly.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @anon

    Kendi is angry about things that make no sense to be angry about, like being able to cross the street properly.

    What does “cross the street properly” actually mean to you vs. Khendi?

    Rules that white people see as common sense seem like some form of aggression to a lot of black people. Behavior that black people see as “just funnin’” look like some form of aggression to a lot of white people.

    Why should a soul brotha have to walk all the way down to the corner and cross at the light? Even during rush hour?

    If Khendi wants to “cross the street” by walking down the middle of it, forcing carloads of white people to slow down, come to a stop, wait, wait some more, wait even more, then maybe go very slowly … who is to deny him that right to obstruct traffic?

    This is part of the problem civnats have: many black men just don’t feel like putting up with white rules, they just like living with indoor plumbing and medicines that work and stuff like that.

  161. anon[750] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief
    @J.Ross

    Kendi is angry about things that make no sense to be angry about, like being able to cross the street properly.

    I see that too. As I wrote: Does his actual state of mind necessarily mean that he - for whatever reasons, is absolutely unwilling to - Face the - Seperate Reality (Carlos Castaneda (ok - an ironic remark, I'll admit that right away: I guilty here of being ironic in a context that has the tendency to eradicate irony altogether***...) of Steve Sailer and Charles Murray...


    *** cf. The Name of the Rose - Umberto Eco's - fictional - prove, that there is no laughter, that laughter is even forbidden in some medieval Christian contexts. Let me say here, that many people misread Eco's work as proof, that there'd be no irony and no laughter in the Christian tradition, which is so wrong that - seen from the medieval perspective of the French Fratrasies and the songs by almost all medieval bards (Oswald von Wolkenstein the foremost here) - is best answered with a big - laughter...and an homage to Miguel de Cervantes Don Quichotte who kick-started the modern days (Christian, of course) self-reflective novel, no small feat in itself... Btw. - irony is an offspring or a first cousin at least of - self-reflection.

    Replies: @anon

    Name of the Rose was Eco’s first fictional work, if I recall correctly, and there was some awkward stiffness to it.

    A better alternative is Baudolino. I bought my copy by complete accident in a used bookstore, knowing nothing about it at all, except that I already knew how to travel with a salmon and wished to read more Eco. It does not disappoint, and is worth reading more than once.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @anon

    Yeah, The Name of the Rose is a novel. It has some rather scholarly parts in it which make it a bit slow here and there. But he does deliver a good impression of the medieval mind, which is a great accomplishment. and he added quite some tension to it because it is also a crime novel.
    I did llike


    Baudolino
     
    too. And his Streicholz-Briefe (Matchbox-Letters) not least. - Lovely!
  162. What percentage of the Swiss population is of African descent? You may include the prostitute streetwalkers of Zurich if you wish…

    …Yes. I thought so.

  163. @RichardTaylor
    @PhysicistDave

    Well PhysicistDave, it's a bit odd to take the position that RACE doesn't matter on a blog that is devoted to racial differences and how much they matter.

    You aren't on any Black, Asian or Latino blog lecturing them.

    Once again, it's always the "CivNats" harming the interests of Whites and only Whites.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    RichardTaylor wrote to me:

    Well PhysicistDave, it’s a bit odd to take the position that RACE doesn’t matter on a blog that is devoted to racial differences and how much they matter.

    Well, Richie, the fellow who runs this blog, Steve Sailer, has made pretty clear that he is a civic nationalist!

    Steve is interested, as I am interested, in genetic differences among human beings: the average differences between groups as well as the differences between genetically inferior individuals such as yourself and normal humans.

    And let’s be frank here: the White nationalists do tend to be genetic losers. I mean, Ricky Spencer could not manage to slip a ring onto any White American girl, and the East European girl he managed to get put up with him for — what? — eight years at most, right?

    And little Greg Johnson? I mean, Greggy got a degree in philosophy. Not the kind of fellow who could do something productive — you know, fly an airplane, rebuild a car engine, program a computer.

    Yeah, I am interested in the genetic differences among human beings, which is why I would love to see a research project that sequences Spencer’s, Johnson’s, and, of course, your DNA to try to ascertain why you all are genetically inferior.

    Hey! The “White Nationalist Genetic Inferiority Project” — work with me and maybe we can get funding, eh?

    (Yeah, yeah, everyone: I know, Because Mozart, Darwin, Beethoven, Gauss, Shakespeare, et al. had superior genes — and because they were White! — therefore Richie, Ricky, and Greggy must alos have superior genes. Genetics does not work that way. Every sufficiently extended family, even those with geniuses, has its genetic defectives. And among Whites, we have a name for our genetic defectives: “White nationalists.”)

  164. @jsm
    @PhysicistDave

    PPPPTTT. As if blacks would EVER unite with us. They'd unite long enough to get our gibs -- and then run screaming like the cowards they are as soon as it became clear the fighting was gonna get a little tough, just like they do when administering beatdowns in the street and Whitey swings back. YOU are the fool, here.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    jsm wrote to me:

    PPPPTTT. As if blacks would EVER unite with us.

    Well, of course, Blacks would not unite with you. After all, you are part of the genetically inferior “White Nationalist Movement,” right?

    No sane and sober person wants to unite with you. No sane and sober person wants to go out to dinner with you or have you as a next-door neighbor. And then there is the little problems of getting any normal, attractive girls to date you, right?

    Hey! Are you willing to have your genome sequenced for the “White Nationalist Genetic Inferiority Project”, assuming we can get funding of course? If we can add enough of you guys, I think we can make real progress on the source of your genetic inferiority!

    Who knows? With CRSPR/Cas9, maybe we can even do some modifications to your somatic cells so that you have a chance of making it with a normal girl? Ah, probably not, probably beyond our technological capabilities in this century!

    • Replies: @jsm
    @PhysicistDave

    "and then there is the little problems of getting any normal, attractive girls to date you, right?"

    Right.

    Since, I AM a girl, after all (and being heterosexual, fine with that state of affairs). Well, a middle-aged woman, anyway, who was a girl once. Who is straight who's been married to a rather successful White man for ...lessseee... 33 years, now?

    And, genetically inferior? Tell that to all the men who wanted my beautiful blonde daughter, who married a handsome successful man and who has produced another beautiful White little girl.

    No, jerk, aaaackshully, my neighbors like me fine. It's just that, UNlike you, I have some sympathy and fellow-feeling for my White co-racials who are getting kicked in the head by the anti-White regime. Why are you here?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

  165. @Corvinus
    "In January 2020, Murray published a long, scholarly book, Human Diversity: The Biology of Gender, Race, and Class, a meta-meta-analysis of the latest meta-analyses in the human sciences. It received virtually zero publicity."

    Right, virtually, Mr. Sailer.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/books/review-human-diversity-charles-murray.html


    Possibly, I’d hazard, by Murray himself. “Human Diversity” has all the bulk of authority. A synthesis of research on the putative differences between the sexes and races, it’s rich with statistical analysis. It’s a curious fact, however, that Murray — who lambastes the unwillingness of politically correct social scientists to look dispassionately at the data — publishes his books under such carefully controlled circumstances. Advance review copies of “The Bell Curve” were not distributed, as Nicholas Lemann has noted. Early readers were handpicked and, on one occasion, flown to Washington by the American Enterprise Institute and briefed by Murray himself. “Human Diversity,” too, appears to have been parsimoniously circulated; the earliest reviews have been found at sympathetic outlets like The National Review.
     
    ...

    Take Murray’’s description of male brains as “systemizers” and female brains as “empathizers,” drawing on work of the psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen. Men are drawn to things, in other words, and women to people. (You’ll recognize this terminology from James Damore’s diversity letter to Google.) This rubric becomes an organizing principle in the book, explaining the typically gendered vocations for men and women (Things Jobs and People Jobs). What Murray avoids discussing are the profound questions surrounding one of the studies that scaffold his thinking.

    In 2000, Baron-Cohen and colleagues published a study of day-old babies that found that boys looked at mobiles longer (hence “systemizers”) and girls at faces (“empathizers”). This study has never been replicated, not even by Baron-Cohen. It was also poorly designed: for one, some of the newborns were propped up; their gaze might have been mediated by how they were held. Not to mention the core question, as posed by the psychologist Cordelia Fine, who has written extensively about bias in research on sex differences in the brain: “Why think that what a newborn prefers to look at provides any kind of window, however grimy, into their future abilities and interests?”
     

    ...

    Stranger still are the inconsistencies. “Race is a construct” is among the tenets Murray seeks to dismantle. Yet tucked midway through the book is the bland assertion that his evidence does not “deny the many ways in which race is a social construct.” There is no genetic basis for race. It is a social and legal definition — a young, crude one at that, overlaid on the tangled realities of ancestral heredity. “Ancestral populations” might be more apt, he concedes. Not 40 pages later, however, he’s back to huffing at the “elite wisdom” that “race is a social construct.” Murray appears to want it both ways: to gesture at a more nuanced and precise formulation but also to harness, when he chooses, the raw rhetorical power of railing against woke dogmas about race.
     

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    Corvinus quoted a critical review of Charles Murray:

    There is no genetic basis for race. It is a social and legal definition — a young, crude one at that, overlaid on the tangled realities of ancestral heredity. “Ancestral populations” might be more apt, he concedes.

    Corvy, have you read Harvard Professor David Reich’s brilliant Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the New Science of the Human Past ? Reich and his fellow researchers have shed a fascinating light on human history and prehistory by taking advantage of the fact that genetic differences among human races and ethnic groups are real.

    To be sure, one of Reich’s major themes is also that human races are mutable over the millennia: every race is a result of “race mixing” in the past. Kind of a downer for some of our racialist friends around here, but not a problem at all for Murray or Sailer.

  166. @anon
    @Dieter Kief

    Name of the Rose was Eco's first fictional work, if I recall correctly, and there was some awkward stiffness to it.

    A better alternative is Baudolino. I bought my copy by complete accident in a used bookstore, knowing nothing about it at all, except that I already knew how to travel with a salmon and wished to read more Eco. It does not disappoint, and is worth reading more than once.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    Yeah, The Name of the Rose is a novel. It has some rather scholarly parts in it which make it a bit slow here and there. But he does deliver a good impression of the medieval mind, which is a great accomplishment. and he added quite some tension to it because it is also a crime novel.
    I did llike

    Baudolino

    too. And his Streicholz-Briefe (Matchbox-Letters) not least. – Lovely!

  167. @ringo starr search
    The premise is that the political elite really believe this stuff, or have deluded themselves.
    Do they really? I doubt it. Or is there some ulterior motive for our Cultural Revolution.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    ringo starr search asked:

    The premise is that the political elite really believe this stuff, or have deluded themselves.
    Do they really? I doubt it. Or is there some ulterior motive for our Cultural Revolution.

    Well, let’s see… A guy puts on a dress and declares he is a female. And our ruling elite did so badly in middle-school biology that they believe it? Probably not.

    Or let’s look at their actions. How many of them choose to live in the middle of a black ghetto and send their kids to the local neighborhood ghetto schools?

    No, they don’t believe it. It is partly a matter of lying to prove their loyalty to the group with which they identify — rather like a guy putting up with Hell Week to join a frat (or, just to annoy my friend R.G. Camara, like Catholics who claim to believe that the wine and wafer are really blood and flesh).

    And even more importantly, the purpose is to prove their power over the rest of us. They do not really care if we believe the lies. In fact, it is much better if we do not believe the lies.

    The whole point is to force us to surrender our integrity and sense of dignity by publicly agreeing to statements that we know to be lies.

    Havel explained it in his essay, “The Power of the Powerless,” with his parable of the greengrocer.

  168. @countenance
    I think this is going to give me an opportunity to focus on Charles Murray's work and career from sort of a holistic, top of the mountain looking down, sort of way. Facing a little bit of our own reality.

    I already have the book in a Kindle edition, and I'll eventually get around to reading it, hopefully I can make some time before the three months of almost non-stop work that will be my July, August and September, if not it won't be until things calm down in October.

    But I know that, in the pre-release promotional materials, one of the things that Murray himself wrote about this book is that he wants it to be a call to action to (pph): "All center-leftists and center-rights of good will."

    I reacted right as I read that: What, all five of them?

    And that points to a problem that so many in our sector, including myself, and so many of you reading these words, have had with him. He's really ace about telling us about the problem, then turns right around and bashes and trashes the people and sectors most likely to think that these things he describes are indeed problems and want to solve them. All the while, he's chasing around "center-leftists and center-rightists of good will," the sort of people that, back in the days when they were substantial in number and power, wanted no part of anything he had to say, and threw him under the bus when things got just a little too hot. And now that they're pretty much non-entities, it's about as useful to appeal them as it is to try to get Know-Nothings, Whigs, Bull Moosers and Free Silverers on your side.

    That's why, at least according to other reviews, Murray takes such annoying swipes at "white identity politics." He doesn't like the very people who are the only ones interested in solving what he openly states is the problem. But at the same time appealing to political ghosts.

    The other dead end flaw in Murrayism, related to what I just wrote, is that he has spent a career trying to tell the people who benefit from cognitive stratification that the system of cognitive stratification is a bad thing. Might as well have tried to sell Ronald McDonald on the fact that ground beef is bad for your cardiovascular health. To some people, the bug is the feature.

    A mind slightly more conspiratorial than mine may wonder if Murray even wants that which he considers problems to be solved, and that the fact that he still has cushy employment and some cache of mainstream platform visibility of the sort that, e.g. Sam Francis and Jared Taylor, quickly lost, points to something being suspiciously amiss or not quite right.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @AndrewR, @PhysicistDave

    countenance asked:

    The other dead end flaw in Murrayism, related to what I just wrote, is that he has spent a career trying to tell the people who benefit from cognitive stratification that the system of cognitive stratification is a bad thing. Might as well have tried to sell Ronald McDonald on the fact that ground beef is bad for your cardiovascular health. To some people, the bug is the feature.

    Yeah, that is a serious problem.

    I think the partial answer is that, even though Murray knows that few working-class people are going to read his books, he hopes that some of the people who do read them will end up being “class traitors” who will try to mobilize the working class.

    Trump tried to do that, a bit ineptly to be sure.

    Tucker may be doing a bit better.

    And then there are those of us who are not exactly “class traitors” but who have a real loyalty to our country and to Western civilization and who can see where this is leading. I am pretty sure that Sailer himself and several of the commenters here (Desiderius, I think) fit in that group.

    The good news is Stein’s Law: “Whatever cannot go on forever won’t.”

    What the elite is doing will destroy industrial society: it cannot go on forever.

    The bad news is that what they are doing can do enormous damage to our country and our civilization, not to mention the misery it can cause to us, our children, and our grandchildren.

    This will end, but there may be a great deal of suffering by innocent people in the interim.

    • Replies: @ATBOTL
    @PhysicistDave

    You say you have loyalty to Western civilization and then you viciously attack Western people by saying that white children must bow down to Chinese rulers in another post. You are nothing but an old anti-white snake trying to deceive white people into not defending themselves. Why aren't you on a Chinese site lecturing Han Chinese against being ethnocentric?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

  169. @anon
    @PhysicistDave


    You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.
     
    This is a stale bromide. The ruling trash don't divide and conquer; they exploit and profit. Racial divisions and conflict aren't created by the elite. Rather, those antagonisms are pre-existing, self-evident consequences of forcing different races under the same geopolitical umbrella, which the elite leverage for their benefit. These naturally emergent racial divisions can be inflamed or suppressed, but never summoned out of thin air by a Deep State focus group.

    This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.
     
    Unfortunately, it is, as long as Whites and blacks have to share the same lebensraum.

    It is a fight between the ruling parasitic verbalist overclass versus the productive citizens of this country.
     
    It's that, too. A multi-pronged fight is not an impossibility.

    The ruling elite are using Blacks and Hispanics as pawns.
     
    Which the elite can easily do because blacks and hispanics are behaviorally different from Whites, and have different life outcomes, causing racial resentments and a pliable audience that a malicious overlord party would have no trouble enlisting as foot soldiers for the elite's cause.

    I am beginning to strongly suspect that the same is true of some of you in the “White nationalist movement.”

    Or maybe you are just useful dupes.
     

    Maybe you should stick to physics and leave the common sense grasp of reality to those who aren't deracinated IQ assortating fetishists.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    anon[143] wrote to me:

    [Dave] You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.

    [anon] This is a stale bromide. The ruling trash don’t divide and conquer; they exploit and profit.

    Been a while since you took Latin, eh?

    “Impera” does not mean conquer. It means rule.

    And, yes, the parasitic verbalist overclass does indeed divide and rule.

    The genetically inferior White nationalist also wrote:

    These naturally emergent racial divisions can be inflamed or suppressed, but never summoned out of thin air by a Deep State focus group.

    Well, your overlords in the ruling elite certainly are inflaming them to serve their own interests. That was my point.

    And you’re helping them.

    The genetically inferior White nationalist also wrote:

    [Dave] This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.

    [The genetically inferior White nationalist] Unfortunately, it is, as long as Whites and blacks have to share the same lebensraum.

    And that is forever.

    You see, this is just as much their country as it is yours.

    Unless all of your ancestors go back to Jamestown, there were Blacks in this country before some of your ancestors arrived.

    You got some plan to get rid of them? Spell it out and please give your name so that the decent people can chase you out of the country before you chase out our Black fellow citizens.

    I mean it: I value their lives more than I value yours. Kicking you out will improve the gene pool.

    • Replies: @Sam Malone
    @PhysicistDave

    I used to value your comments here, but it's become clear lately that you are one nasty hateful little weasel. You're like an abused animal that now can only mindlessly spit venom at everyone. Please stop participating here and wasting our time and yours.

  170. anon[278] • Disclaimer says:

    It has some rather scholarly parts in it which make it a bit slow here and there.

    Some of my family found those parts to be too tedious.

    But he does deliver a good impression of the medieval mind, which is a great accomplishment.

    Yes. In some ways, that really is the best part of “Name”, that it takes one into a foreign country (the past) most people didn’t / don’t know existed.

    and he added quite some tension to it because it is also a crime novel.

    Some Eco is best read silently in private, and other Eco just demands to be read aloud, to an appreciative audience. Perhaps one should learn to read Italian just to be able to appreciate Eco in the original; rather like learning older Spanish to read the Quixote, or French to get all the jokes in Miserables. Ah, time…not always our friend.

  171. @UNIT472
    I like Sailer's theory on Latino crime rates improving. It may have something to do with proximity to negroes as well. When I lived in Marin there was a Mexican colony in San Rafael but they all worked as landscapers, construction or the restaurant industry and there were no negroes around them. Thus no crime. OTOH across the bridge in San Francisco there were Latino gangs probably formed in self defense as Latino and negro communities were intermingled.

    I now see the same thing today in Florida. Where Latinos live apart from negroes they don't have gangs. Where they don't they do. Maybe we should have a tattoo index to judge the crime potential of Latinos. Where Latino's are heavily tattooed they have been contaminated by the negro prison culture.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Unit, maybe there should be a tattoo index for all races, used to indicate people to just stay away from. Today at the bank, there was a guy with crew cut and a normal male voice, with his back toward us, wearing a sun dress. (Nice pattern, BTW.) Me and the bank guy in his cube were smirking. I said “hey, be careful, maybe that guy is from corporate making sure you all are treating the customers right.” Oh, what was the point? He had a bunch of tattoos on his back – it was a sun dress, if you recall.

  172. @Triteleia Laxa
    Great observation:

    But nobody anymore asks blacks to do better.

    Asking people to do better, rather than castigating or coddling them, requires you to respect them.

    Black people know this on some level. They are constantly talking about feeling disrespected.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Achmed E. Newman, @Ben the Layabout

    They are constantly firing handguns about feeling disrespected.

    FIFY. ;-}

  173. @Triteleia Laxa
    @Desiderius

    Ideology is a layer which we put between ourselves and the truth. We might need that layer, but we should never confuse our need for ideology, with that ideology actually being true; or else we get stuck within our own clothing.

    "White identitarianism" is clothing like any other; but deeply unfashionable, cumbersome and unsuited to the demands of the task ahead.

    Paradoxically, all layers, while restrictive, are also imaginary.

    Proponents of "white identitarianism" ask us to pretend that it is a very fine clothing, which all whites would buy, if only it were never "critiqued". They aren't the child shouting "you're naked" at the Emperor, but the Emperor, fingers in his ears, after the crowd has rallied behind the child.

    That the child is also naked, does not mean that the crowd will forget that the Emperor wears no clothes.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    I’m not sure if I get that comment completely, Triteleia, but there sure are a lot of naked people in it. Just for closure’s sake, what is the Empress wearing, if anything?

  174. @John Johnson
    @PhysicistDave

    Not in the slightest. This is version 23 of the claim that the ruling elite is intentionally inflaming racial differences in order to set the peasants against each other so that they will not unite to fight their common enemy — the parasitic verbalist overclass.

    Inflamed racial differences didn't turn what Europeans once described as the Paris of the West into modern Detroit.

    The Bantu of Haiti killed off their ruling elite and now they depend on UN gruel.

    Without accounting for race any worker's revolution would just return to nature denying stupidity.

    Anyways go to Detroit or Baltimore and start your people's revolution there. Good luck. The far-left groups of the 60s and 70s stopped working with Blacks even though they claimed to represent them against the White power structure. There were a lot of complaints about Black revolutionaries expecting sex from the White women.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    Detroit and Philadelphia and Baltimore impress me because what happens there is so massive – up in your face (Ferguson too). I would really want to know what rather liberally oriented minds (Brett Weinstein, say) think would be the right cure for these structures.
    Another question I have in mind at times is: What do they think would the timeline for their (imagined?) measures to succeed – when would that be? – In – what: Thirty years? Or rather in fifty years? And what would happen in the meantime?
    No pun, no irony: I know that these are rather hard questions.

  175. @Charlesz Martel
    @Dieter Kief

    "Steve Sailer’s hints at some practical consequences of Murray’s findings like calm down, black men. Don’t brag about being dangerous and reckless and – murderous, etc. – leave the Gangsta-role model behind, it is doing you no good , try to behave at school …"



    The simple reason that blacks will not change their behavior is because it gets them sexual success with black women, hispanic women, white women, and asian women, in varying degrees. Being seen as a "Bad Ass" is catnip to women. What man on earth voluntarily gives up behavior that leads to a higher percentage of sexual success?
    If we seriously wanted to change black men's behavior we would work on trying to change what primarily black women (and others) find sexually alluring.

    Good luck with that.

    I commented on this last night. My comment seems to have been vaporized. Pity. It was better written.

    Paging Whiskey!

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Dieter Kief

    I know that too – it – for reasons I don#t quite get – is difficult to write the same text twice. – Thanks for doing it, Charlesz Martel.
    I put your point a bit bluntly: The obvious over-sexualization of our societies brings with it unintended (=negative, too) consequences. – and this is the iSteve part of this story: What I said in the lines above is true not least for blacks – – – .

  176. @Charlesz Martel
    @Dieter Kief

    "Steve Sailer’s hints at some practical consequences of Murray’s findings like calm down, black men. Don’t brag about being dangerous and reckless and – murderous, etc. – leave the Gangsta-role model behind, it is doing you no good , try to behave at school …"



    The simple reason that blacks will not change their behavior is because it gets them sexual success with black women, hispanic women, white women, and asian women, in varying degrees. Being seen as a "Bad Ass" is catnip to women. What man on earth voluntarily gives up behavior that leads to a higher percentage of sexual success?
    If we seriously wanted to change black men's behavior we would work on trying to change what primarily black women (and others) find sexually alluring.

    Good luck with that.

    I commented on this last night. My comment seems to have been vaporized. Pity. It was better written.

    Paging Whiskey!

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Dieter Kief

    I know that too – it – for reasons I don’t quite get – is difficult to write the same text twice. – Thanks for trying anyway, Charlesz Martel.
    I put your point a bit bluntly: The obvious over-sexualization of our societies brings with it unintended (=negative, too) consequences. – and this is the iSteve part of this story: What I said in the lines above is true not least for blacks – – – .

  177. @Triteleia Laxa
    @Harry Baldwin

    It is often best to take distressed people's feelings literally, but their explanations figuratively.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    It is often best to take distressed people’s feelings literally, but their explanations figuratively.

    Meaning to act paternalistically when necessary, I’d assume. Being not too principled or consequent. Act wisely rather than being overly just (= by being hooked onto equality not least).
    So: Don’t fool yourself by acting rather principled than wise. – Move; don’t jump.
    Or jump, don’t move. But don’t try to move-jump or jump-move, unless you are Mick Jagger. In that case, being Jumping Jack Flash might well be a gas, gas gas, yeah! and might catapult you in a sphere, where resolved and unresolved problems merge and – finally transcend themselves alltogehter.

  178. @Gaius Gracchus
    @TWS

    Yes, it looks like Murray disproved Ron's "Myth of Hispanic Crime" accidentally... don't expect Ron to admit he was wrong....

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    … don’t expect Ron to admit he was wrong….

    Ha! That’s putting it mildly, Gaius. I’d bet my house against Ron Unz admitting he was wrong on ANYTHING.

    • Replies: @res
    @Achmed E. Newman


    I’d bet my house against Ron Unz admitting he was wrong on ANYTHING.
     
    It is kind of you to offer your house up to support running the Unz Review ; )
    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-truth-and-the-whole-truth-on-the-origins-of-covid-19/?showcomments#comment-4653752

    You’re entirely correct. I carelessly misread the date of the Reuters article and just glanced at the contents, so all of my reasoning was completely wrong. Obviously, a huge amount of testing in early 2020 would have been completely impossible. That’s what happens when you’re in a rush.
     
    Perhaps even more convincing.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/conan-the-librarian/#comment-874254

    Now I obviously won’t admit I’m wrong when I’m clearly not. But I will say that over the last few years and especially in the last year or two, I’ve been absolutely shocked to discover I was totally, completely, utterly wrong about a whole series of huge matters. The magnitude of my errors has absolutely stunned me. In several cases, my reasoning had always seemed fully airtight but turned out to be absolutely wrong. Many of these particular matters were brought to my attention by a certain very prominent public intellectual, someone who might be considered a pillar of the Establishment elite, and he naturally won my huge gratitude and respect as a consequence. On many, many occasions I’ve felt like I’d just woken up after eating Tree-of-Life root, with the inevitable first thoughts: “How can I have been so stupid for all those years?…”

    However, none of these gigantic errors on my part have anything to do with HBD.
     

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  179. res says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    @Gaius Gracchus


    ... don’t expect Ron to admit he was wrong….
     
    Ha! That's putting it mildly, Gaius. I'd bet my house against Ron Unz admitting he was wrong on ANYTHING.

    Replies: @res

    I’d bet my house against Ron Unz admitting he was wrong on ANYTHING.

    It is kind of you to offer your house up to support running the Unz Review ; )
    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-truth-and-the-whole-truth-on-the-origins-of-covid-19/?showcomments#comment-4653752

    You’re entirely correct. I carelessly misread the date of the Reuters article and just glanced at the contents, so all of my reasoning was completely wrong. Obviously, a huge amount of testing in early 2020 would have been completely impossible. That’s what happens when you’re in a rush.

    Perhaps even more convincing.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/conan-the-librarian/#comment-874254

    Now I obviously won’t admit I’m wrong when I’m clearly not. But I will say that over the last few years and especially in the last year or two, I’ve been absolutely shocked to discover I was totally, completely, utterly wrong about a whole series of huge matters. The magnitude of my errors has absolutely stunned me. In several cases, my reasoning had always seemed fully airtight but turned out to be absolutely wrong. Many of these particular matters were brought to my attention by a certain very prominent public intellectual, someone who might be considered a pillar of the Establishment elite, and he naturally won my huge gratitude and respect as a consequence. On many, many occasions I’ve felt like I’d just woken up after eating Tree-of-Life root, with the inevitable first thoughts: “How can I have been so stupid for all those years?…”

    However, none of these gigantic errors on my part have anything to do with HBD.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @res

    We'll I'll be dipped in shit changing over our house into my brother's name shortly!

    The Conan one was from '15, a little before I started reading here, and Mr. Unz even wrote: "I lived nearly my entire life in total ignorance…" at the end of a comment 2 replies later. The other was very recent, of course.

    I have not caught these one, so thank you, Res. I was wrong about Ron Unz never admitting he was wrong. However, in case he's reading, my house is underwater financially and has a bunch of rotted sub-flooring, yeah, that's the ticket.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

  180. @res
    @Achmed E. Newman


    I’d bet my house against Ron Unz admitting he was wrong on ANYTHING.
     
    It is kind of you to offer your house up to support running the Unz Review ; )
    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-truth-and-the-whole-truth-on-the-origins-of-covid-19/?showcomments#comment-4653752

    You’re entirely correct. I carelessly misread the date of the Reuters article and just glanced at the contents, so all of my reasoning was completely wrong. Obviously, a huge amount of testing in early 2020 would have been completely impossible. That’s what happens when you’re in a rush.
     
    Perhaps even more convincing.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/conan-the-librarian/#comment-874254

    Now I obviously won’t admit I’m wrong when I’m clearly not. But I will say that over the last few years and especially in the last year or two, I’ve been absolutely shocked to discover I was totally, completely, utterly wrong about a whole series of huge matters. The magnitude of my errors has absolutely stunned me. In several cases, my reasoning had always seemed fully airtight but turned out to be absolutely wrong. Many of these particular matters were brought to my attention by a certain very prominent public intellectual, someone who might be considered a pillar of the Establishment elite, and he naturally won my huge gratitude and respect as a consequence. On many, many occasions I’ve felt like I’d just woken up after eating Tree-of-Life root, with the inevitable first thoughts: “How can I have been so stupid for all those years?…”

    However, none of these gigantic errors on my part have anything to do with HBD.
     

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    We’ll I’ll be dipped in shit changing over our house into my brother’s name shortly!

    The Conan one was from ’15, a little before I started reading here, and Mr. Unz even wrote: “I lived nearly my entire life in total ignorance…” at the end of a comment 2 replies later. The other was very recent, of course.

    I have not caught these one, so thank you, Res. I was wrong about Ron Unz never admitting he was wrong. However, in case he’s reading, my house is underwater financially and has a bunch of rotted sub-flooring, yeah, that’s the ticket.

    • LOL: res
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I do remember one occasion when he said something rather wrong (like Jordan B. Peterson is the typical psychologist who has no way with numbers - and later did not pursue this idea of his. - That might not exactly count as having admitted something but when I ask people who work with kids they tell me if they see a kid prone to be too self-centered (for whatever reason) and such a kid would - - be able to - let an opinion it had strongly opposed somehow slip through, all of a sudden, that such behavior then would usually be good for an honorable mention or a little reward or some such - because it could indicate a change for the better.

  181. @Achmed E. Newman
    @res

    We'll I'll be dipped in shit changing over our house into my brother's name shortly!

    The Conan one was from '15, a little before I started reading here, and Mr. Unz even wrote: "I lived nearly my entire life in total ignorance…" at the end of a comment 2 replies later. The other was very recent, of course.

    I have not caught these one, so thank you, Res. I was wrong about Ron Unz never admitting he was wrong. However, in case he's reading, my house is underwater financially and has a bunch of rotted sub-flooring, yeah, that's the ticket.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    I do remember one occasion when he said something rather wrong (like Jordan B. Peterson is the typical psychologist who has no way with numbers – and later did not pursue this idea of his. – That might not exactly count as having admitted something but when I ask people who work with kids they tell me if they see a kid prone to be too self-centered (for whatever reason) and such a kid would – – be able to – let an opinion it had strongly opposed somehow slip through, all of a sudden, that such behavior then would usually be good for an honorable mention or a little reward or some such – because it could indicate a change for the better.

  182. @PhysicistDave
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Bardon Kaldian wrote to me:


    But, it is also true that US working & middle classes have nothing in common that would cross racial/ethnic lines. It has always been so.
     
    Well, let's see... nothing in common except for the fact that they are countrymen. And, oh yeah, the fact that they share a common language and common culture. And that they are all exploited by the (largely White) parasitic verbalist overclass. And that they want to live decent lives for themselves and their families.

    But except for all that...

    BK also wrote:

    While it is simplistic to think that history is a history of class struggle (Marx) or race struggle (Hitler) – as a rule, Hitler was closer to truth than Marx.
     
    So, now the mask comes off.

    I do really wonder if our White nationalist friends are witting tools of the ruling elite? Or are they just attracted to the homo-erotic aspects of Nazism?

    Let's take your comment seriously: exactly how did the racial solidarity thing work for Hitler? Did all the "Aryans" in England and Norway and the USA rally to support Hitler? Or did everyone rally to support his native country? Sort of like us civnats?

    I am not advocating class analysis along the lines of that Johnny-come-lately faker, Karl Marx. Class analysis originated among nineteenth-century libertarians who drew the same distinction I am drawing between the productive members of society and the parasites who use the state to live off the productive members.

    BK also wrote:

    In the US (Brazil, Colombia,..), various races function as different peoples. What these peoples should learn is to coexist, if they can.
     
    The ruling elite does not want us to get along: divide et impera.

    And White nationalists are falling into their trap.

    White nationalists are tools of the ruling elite.

    Replies: @jsm, @BlackFlag

    And that they are all exploited by the (largely White) parasitic verbalist overclass.

    I think there might be a largely White free-rider individualist middling class that refuses to join sides when everyone else is ready to throw down and even when their group is being attacked. In fact, in the latter case, their free-rider behavior may become even more pronounced and they may even turn on their own group. I wonder if you find this phenotype in chimpanzees and wolves.

  183. jsm says:
    @PhysicistDave
    @jsm

    jsm wrote to me:


    PPPPTTT. As if blacks would EVER unite with us.
     
    Well, of course, Blacks would not unite with you. After all, you are part of the genetically inferior "White Nationalist Movement," right?

    No sane and sober person wants to unite with you. No sane and sober person wants to go out to dinner with you or have you as a next-door neighbor. And then there is the little problems of getting any normal, attractive girls to date you, right?

    Hey! Are you willing to have your genome sequenced for the “White Nationalist Genetic Inferiority Project”, assuming we can get funding of course? If we can add enough of you guys, I think we can make real progress on the source of your genetic inferiority!

    Who knows? With CRSPR/Cas9, maybe we can even do some modifications to your somatic cells so that you have a chance of making it with a normal girl? Ah, probably not, probably beyond our technological capabilities in this century!

    Replies: @jsm

    “and then there is the little problems of getting any normal, attractive girls to date you, right?”

    Right.

    Since, I AM a girl, after all (and being heterosexual, fine with that state of affairs). Well, a middle-aged woman, anyway, who was a girl once. Who is straight who’s been married to a rather successful White man for …lessseee… 33 years, now?

    And, genetically inferior? Tell that to all the men who wanted my beautiful blonde daughter, who married a handsome successful man and who has produced another beautiful White little girl.

    No, jerk, aaaackshully, my neighbors like me fine. It’s just that, UNlike you, I have some sympathy and fellow-feeling for my White co-racials who are getting kicked in the head by the anti-White regime. Why are you here?

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @jsm

    jsm wrote to me:


    And, genetically inferior? Tell that to all the men who wanted my beautiful blonde daughter, who married a handsome successful man and who has produced another beautiful White little girl.
     
    You have made clear that you are a White nationalist.

    Which is solid proof of your genetic inferiority.

    Being blonde and (in her mom's opinion!) beautiful is consistent with grotesque genetic inferiority.

    The genetically inferrior White nationalist also wrote:

    UNlike you, I have some sympathy and fellow-feeling for my White co-racials who are getting kicked in the head by the anti-White regime. Why are you here?
     
    To defend my country, the United States of America. But you could not grasp that -- all you have is a race, not a country.

    Now, let's return to the main question: will you contribute your DNA to the White Nationalist Genetic Inferiorty Project if we can get funding?

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

  184. The interesting part is the part about the coming rise of white identity politics, which Murray now sees as inevitable. He makes a pathetic and dishonest plea for a return to an imaginary past of non-racial Americanism, ignoring the facts that the Founders were white supremacists who passed white nationalist citizenships laws and that such policies and the like were in effect until recently.

    • Replies: @Ben the Layabout
    @ATBOTL

    I must grudgingly agree with some of your post. I can't comment on Murray, not having read the book. So this is meant as a reply only to your post. You are trivially correct, claiming the Founders were White supremacists. In many ways they were. Frankly, your critique marks you as a shallow intellect, heavily influenced by CRT, am I right? You commit the fundamental error of critiquing the past by today's standards; even I learnt that rule in community college world history, for crying out loud! You seem to ignore that the USA was founded as a republic, itself an innovation at the time. I hope you Liberals will pardon those who lived three centuries ago that they hadn't the foresight to incorporate all the moral evolution that would happen with time. I don't know the history in detail, but I also think you're wrong by implying that immigration restrictions go back to America's founding. Yes, we've had restrictive immigration, but by my learning, there was little if any restrictions on immigration before the 20th century. In any event, it's been mostly gone since 1965 (Hart-Cellar). I dispute that 56 years ago is "recently."

    Since we're White-nationalist oriented here, it's worth mentioning that our "White Supremacist" culture, which I'd prefer to call White-European, is what gave Europe, America and other "white" countries the very standards of civilization we enjoyed for a couple centuries. It's on the wane, and that should please the Woke. White identity politics or not, the demographics say that non-Whites are a growing share of our nations (and world) population. Let's see if they can equal or better what the Evil White race created. I wish them lots of luck.

  185. @PhysicistDave
    @countenance

    countenance asked:


    The other dead end flaw in Murrayism, related to what I just wrote, is that he has spent a career trying to tell the people who benefit from cognitive stratification that the system of cognitive stratification is a bad thing. Might as well have tried to sell Ronald McDonald on the fact that ground beef is bad for your cardiovascular health. To some people, the bug is the feature.
     
    Yeah, that is a serious problem.

    I think the partial answer is that, even though Murray knows that few working-class people are going to read his books, he hopes that some of the people who do read them will end up being "class traitors" who will try to mobilize the working class.

    Trump tried to do that, a bit ineptly to be sure.

    Tucker may be doing a bit better.

    And then there are those of us who are not exactly "class traitors" but who have a real loyalty to our country and to Western civilization and who can see where this is leading. I am pretty sure that Sailer himself and several of the commenters here (Desiderius, I think) fit in that group.

    The good news is Stein's Law: "Whatever cannot go on forever won't."

    What the elite is doing will destroy industrial society: it cannot go on forever.

    The bad news is that what they are doing can do enormous damage to our country and our civilization, not to mention the misery it can cause to us, our children, and our grandchildren.

    This will end, but there may be a great deal of suffering by innocent people in the interim.

    Replies: @ATBOTL

    You say you have loyalty to Western civilization and then you viciously attack Western people by saying that white children must bow down to Chinese rulers in another post. You are nothing but an old anti-white snake trying to deceive white people into not defending themselves. Why aren’t you on a Chinese site lecturing Han Chinese against being ethnocentric?

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @ATBOTL

    ATBOTL wrote to me:


    You say you have loyalty to Western civilization and then you viciously attack Western people by saying that white children must bow down to Chinese rulers in another post.
     
    You seem to think that loyalty to Western civilization logically equals loyalty to the White race.

    It does not.

    I have no loyalty to my race. None at all.

    Indeed, I am far worse than you realize: I am guilty of race-mixing. Yes, just like John Derbyshire, my kids are half East Asian.

    ATBOTL also wrote:

    Why aren’t you on a Chinese site lecturing Han Chinese against being ethnocentric?
     
    Why would I do that since they are, after all, genetically superior to you?
  186. @Elli
    Murray has always had a sense of noblesse oblige.

    A main point of The Bell Curve and Coming Apart is that half of people are below average, by definition; here we are talking about intelligence. So what are the responsibilities of the elite to the below average, Fishtown black or white?

    The elite have failed the Fishtown miserably over the last five decades, primarily by destroying the blue collar wage. It wasn't just unstoppable market forces.

    Replace the role of father and breadwinner with female labor and taxpayers' check, and you tend to create men who have no purpose but Nature's own imperatives.

    Tariffs, enforced borders, a media norm of stable mother and father families, functional schools, safe streets. The elite are capable of achieving these things or at least improving them.

    Finesse and sidestep the race question where you can. Half of everyone is below average. What do the powerful shapers of the country owe them?

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @Dieter Kief, @Bumpkin

    The elite have failed the Fishtown miserably over the last five decades, primarily by destroying the blue collar wage. It wasn’t just unstoppable market forces.

    I completely disagree. The “elites” had nothing to do with it, it was all “unstoppable market forces.”

    To begin with, the US was living in a fantasy land after WWII, when the rest of the world’s industrial base was destroyed and only the US was running at full speed. That allowed wages to overshoot before the rest of the world caught up.

    By the ’80s, intellectual work started shooting up as a percentage of the economy, and now manufacturing is a small percentage of world GDP.

    Naturally, the predominance of such information services in a modern economy doesn’t favor Fishtown, no matter where you go in the world.

    Tariffs, enforced borders, a media norm of stable mother and father families, functional schools, safe streets. The elite are capable of achieving these things or at least improving them.

    No, the first two are not possible, and the latter three are our own responsibility. It wasn’t “elites” chanting “Defund the police!” in Minneapolis last year, but the brain-dead residents. They got what they deserved, a lot more crime.

    Half of everyone is below average. What do the powerful shapers of the country owe them?

    Nothing. If there was anything that once made this country great and is now slipping away, it was the common man’s drive to make their and their neighbor’s lives better. That is now disappearing as simps like you cry for “elites” to do it for you, and throw tantrums when they don’t. Man up and do it yourself.

  187. @ATBOTL
    @PhysicistDave

    You say you have loyalty to Western civilization and then you viciously attack Western people by saying that white children must bow down to Chinese rulers in another post. You are nothing but an old anti-white snake trying to deceive white people into not defending themselves. Why aren't you on a Chinese site lecturing Han Chinese against being ethnocentric?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    ATBOTL wrote to me:

    You say you have loyalty to Western civilization and then you viciously attack Western people by saying that white children must bow down to Chinese rulers in another post.

    You seem to think that loyalty to Western civilization logically equals loyalty to the White race.

    It does not.

    I have no loyalty to my race. None at all.

    Indeed, I am far worse than you realize: I am guilty of race-mixing. Yes, just like John Derbyshire, my kids are half East Asian.

    ATBOTL also wrote:

    Why aren’t you on a Chinese site lecturing Han Chinese against being ethnocentric?

    Why would I do that since they are, after all, genetically superior to you?

  188. @jsm
    @PhysicistDave

    "and then there is the little problems of getting any normal, attractive girls to date you, right?"

    Right.

    Since, I AM a girl, after all (and being heterosexual, fine with that state of affairs). Well, a middle-aged woman, anyway, who was a girl once. Who is straight who's been married to a rather successful White man for ...lessseee... 33 years, now?

    And, genetically inferior? Tell that to all the men who wanted my beautiful blonde daughter, who married a handsome successful man and who has produced another beautiful White little girl.

    No, jerk, aaaackshully, my neighbors like me fine. It's just that, UNlike you, I have some sympathy and fellow-feeling for my White co-racials who are getting kicked in the head by the anti-White regime. Why are you here?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    jsm wrote to me:

    And, genetically inferior? Tell that to all the men who wanted my beautiful blonde daughter, who married a handsome successful man and who has produced another beautiful White little girl.

    You have made clear that you are a White nationalist.

    Which is solid proof of your genetic inferiority.

    Being blonde and (in her mom’s opinion!) beautiful is consistent with grotesque genetic inferiority.

    The genetically inferrior White nationalist also wrote:

    UNlike you, I have some sympathy and fellow-feeling for my White co-racials who are getting kicked in the head by the anti-White regime. Why are you here?

    To defend my country, the United States of America. But you could not grasp that — all you have is a race, not a country.

    Now, let’s return to the main question: will you contribute your DNA to the White Nationalist Genetic Inferiorty Project if we can get funding?

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @PhysicistDave

    What's your definition of a "country?"

  189. @PhysicistDave
    @jsm

    jsm wrote to me:


    And, genetically inferior? Tell that to all the men who wanted my beautiful blonde daughter, who married a handsome successful man and who has produced another beautiful White little girl.
     
    You have made clear that you are a White nationalist.

    Which is solid proof of your genetic inferiority.

    Being blonde and (in her mom's opinion!) beautiful is consistent with grotesque genetic inferiority.

    The genetically inferrior White nationalist also wrote:

    UNlike you, I have some sympathy and fellow-feeling for my White co-racials who are getting kicked in the head by the anti-White regime. Why are you here?
     
    To defend my country, the United States of America. But you could not grasp that -- all you have is a race, not a country.

    Now, let's return to the main question: will you contribute your DNA to the White Nationalist Genetic Inferiorty Project if we can get funding?

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    What’s your definition of a “country?”

  190. @PhysicistDave
    @anon

    anon[143] wrote to me:



    [Dave] You have fallen into the trap set by the ruling elite: divide et impera.
     
    [anon] This is a stale bromide. The ruling trash don’t divide and conquer; they exploit and profit.
     
    Been a while since you took Latin, eh?

    "Impera" does not mean conquer. It means rule.

    And, yes, the parasitic verbalist overclass does indeed divide and rule.

    The genetically inferior White nationalist also wrote:


    These naturally emergent racial divisions can be inflamed or suppressed, but never summoned out of thin air by a Deep State focus group.
     
    Well, your overlords in the ruling elite certainly are inflaming them to serve their own interests. That was my point.

    And you're helping them.

    The genetically inferior White nationalist also wrote:



    [Dave] This is not a fight between Whites and Blacks.
     
    [The genetically inferior White nationalist] Unfortunately, it is, as long as Whites and blacks have to share the same lebensraum.
     
    And that is forever.

    You see, this is just as much their country as it is yours.

    Unless all of your ancestors go back to Jamestown, there were Blacks in this country before some of your ancestors arrived.

    You got some plan to get rid of them? Spell it out and please give your name so that the decent people can chase you out of the country before you chase out our Black fellow citizens.

    I mean it: I value their lives more than I value yours. Kicking you out will improve the gene pool.

    Replies: @Sam Malone

    I used to value your comments here, but it’s become clear lately that you are one nasty hateful little weasel. You’re like an abused animal that now can only mindlessly spit venom at everyone. Please stop participating here and wasting our time and yours.

  191. BLACK MURDER ARREST RATE (LIKELY) EXAGGERATED

    Mr. Sailer, respect your opinion and read much of your work. However, I must take exception with some of the claims here. Now, I don’t know whether Sailer or Murray is to blame, but no way is the Black murder rate (or even arrest rate) TWENTY times that of whites. I’m basing my criticism on the article as it appears in Vdare, which has a chart, presumably from the book, of arrest per city. Now, I admit I don’t have Murray’s book at hand so this criticism is provisional. What’s missing? PER CAPITA MURDER (ARREST) RATES! Most large cities are disproportionately Black, far higher than their national average of about 13%. Since Blacks are known to have much higher crime rates, then doesn’t it stand to reason that absolute rates of arrest will be higher in cities where they comprise much more than 13% of the population? This is such a basic error, frankly I’m amazed it has slipped through two or more highly respected writers.

    The REAL Black to White ratio is closer to six to one, based upon per-capita statistics, such as reported in “The Color of Crime” or various government sources. To think that the Black murder rate is thrice that is absurd. Please brush up on your statistics, gentlemen!

  192. @Triteleia Laxa
    Great observation:

    But nobody anymore asks blacks to do better.

    Asking people to do better, rather than castigating or coddling them, requires you to respect them.

    Black people know this on some level. They are constantly talking about feeling disrespected.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Achmed E. Newman, @Ben the Layabout

    Your comment has the unspoken premise that all people are worthy of respect. I concede that in an ideal world everybody would be judged by his true nature, his individual merits. Alas, we don’t live in an ideal world. We must often just people by statistical averages, stereotypes if you like. Blacks come in at a particular disadvantage when it comes to this. Equal treatment and equal outcome are two of many pleasant lies (with dangerous consequences) that exist in our nation.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Ben the Layabout

    There's some truth in your argument, as regards equal treatment. Most people walking at night will not treat a male stranger as they would a female stranger. Nonetheless, I find that it is usually worth the time and resources required to differentiate the individual from the stereotype, when it comes to something important.

  193. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Luke Lea


    One thing I’ve not seen is the black/white murder rates corrected for IQ. Are low IQ whites, even though roughly seven times (?) less likely to have an IQ under 85 than blacks (and I’m not sure how even more less likely to have an IQ under 70) comparatively violent? That would be good to know.
     
    One of the things I distinctly recall Murray having said while being interviewed about The Bell Curve is that low IQ blacks and whites present differently - a 70 IQ black man is perceived as somewhat normal in all respects, while a 70 IQ white man would present with what would be easily perceived as the result of some sort of "brain insult."

    Therefore my surmise is that the very low IQ white person would either be in some sort of institutional setting or other support network for morons and would likely have a childlike outlook. He would not be a good candidate for gang membership or semi-organized criminal activity even as a hanger-on. Therefore he's not likely to get into situations in which the commission of murder are likely.

    Replies: @profnasty, @Ben the Layabout

    There is more to mental function, of course, than raw intelligence. I don’t have a reference, but I think it’s covered in one of the Lynn or Jensen books. As I recall it, the author was studying the mentally retarded and his obsservatiion was similar to what you write, except this context was children forming friendships in school setting. Low-IQ (say, 70) Black children had good social interactions, but Whites of same IQ were withdrawn and didn’t interact.

    Of course, it’s possible Murray makes a similar comment in his books. As you imply, it’s possible to be simply too stupid to even be a criminal. Below about IQ 70 you rapidly get into “requires constant supervision” categories. I’ve seen it said the peak IQ for violent criminals is just sub-normal, call it 80-90, which alas perfectly centers the peak of the Black distribution.

    A final comment: I’m not aware of any studies that compare (say) criminal outcomes of retarded people by race. I speculate retarded Whites get better institutional care (more money or that old “white privilege” if you like) which naturally would reduce the ward’s chances of getting into mischief.

  194. @ATBOTL
    The interesting part is the part about the coming rise of white identity politics, which Murray now sees as inevitable. He makes a pathetic and dishonest plea for a return to an imaginary past of non-racial Americanism, ignoring the facts that the Founders were white supremacists who passed white nationalist citizenships laws and that such policies and the like were in effect until recently.

    Replies: @Ben the Layabout

    I must grudgingly agree with some of your post. I can’t comment on Murray, not having read the book. So this is meant as a reply only to your post. You are trivially correct, claiming the Founders were White supremacists. In many ways they were. Frankly, your critique marks you as a shallow intellect, heavily influenced by CRT, am I right? You commit the fundamental error of critiquing the past by today’s standards; even I learnt that rule in community college world history, for crying out loud! You seem to ignore that the USA was founded as a republic, itself an innovation at the time. I hope you Liberals will pardon those who lived three centuries ago that they hadn’t the foresight to incorporate all the moral evolution that would happen with time. I don’t know the history in detail, but I also think you’re wrong by implying that immigration restrictions go back to America’s founding. Yes, we’ve had restrictive immigration, but by my learning, there was little if any restrictions on immigration before the 20th century. In any event, it’s been mostly gone since 1965 (Hart-Cellar). I dispute that 56 years ago is “recently.”

    Since we’re White-nationalist oriented here, it’s worth mentioning that our “White Supremacist” culture, which I’d prefer to call White-European, is what gave Europe, America and other “white” countries the very standards of civilization we enjoyed for a couple centuries. It’s on the wane, and that should please the Woke. White identity politics or not, the demographics say that non-Whites are a growing share of our nations (and world) population. Let’s see if they can equal or better what the Evil White race created. I wish them lots of luck.

  195. @Ben the Layabout
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Your comment has the unspoken premise that all people are worthy of respect. I concede that in an ideal world everybody would be judged by his true nature, his individual merits. Alas, we don't live in an ideal world. We must often just people by statistical averages, stereotypes if you like. Blacks come in at a particular disadvantage when it comes to this. Equal treatment and equal outcome are two of many pleasant lies (with dangerous consequences) that exist in our nation.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    There’s some truth in your argument, as regards equal treatment. Most people walking at night will not treat a male stranger as they would a female stranger. Nonetheless, I find that it is usually worth the time and resources required to differentiate the individual from the stereotype, when it comes to something important.

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