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From my new column in Taki’s Magazine:

The good news is that we actually have flattened the curve. Even in New York City, few hospitals are overwhelmed, and in much of the country, such as California, the situation is better than epidemiologists were predicting only a month ago. For example, in Los Angeles County, home to 10 million people:

Roughly 1,059 people in L.A. County are hospitalized for COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus. Of those, 18% are in intensive care and 15% of those patients are on ventilators.

About 0.0016 percent of the residents of L.A. County are on ventilators: not a huge number for an immense urban area that holds 3 percent of the country’s population. In general, California hospitals are rather empty at the moment. …

Unfortunately, one of the reasons that we don’t have as much of a ventilator shortage as was expected is because ventilators aren’t working very well. The success rate of patients getting better on ventilators is depressingly low. This awareness has, in turn, relieved pressure on ICUs and hospitals in general.

Read the whole thing there.

Here’s a new NYT article on how NYC doctors are much more reluctant to intubate than they were a month ago. Instead, they first try having patients with low levels of oxygen in their blood lie face down or on a side with an oxygen mask. (This is my vague impression of Boris Johnson’s treatment.) That often works, and it’s vastly less work for the hospital staff than monitoring a patient on a ventilator.

“Intubated patients with Covid lung disease are doing very poorly, and while this may be the disease and not the mechanical ventilation, most of us believe that intubation is to be avoided until unequivocally required,” Dr. Strayer said.

This shift has lightened the load on nursing staffs and the rest of the hospital. “You put a tube into somebody,” Dr. Levitan said, “and the amount of work required not to kill that person goes up by a factor of 100,” creating a cascade that slows down laboratory results, X-rays and other care.

By committing all the resources of the hospital to highly complex care, mass mechanical ventilation of patients forms a medical Maginot line.

For heavier patients, Dr. Levitan advocates combining breathing support from a CPAP machine or regular oxygen with comfortable positioning on a pregnancy massage mattress.

It’s not clear if hospitals have managed to find a better treatment for acutely ill patients, but they have managed to figure out a better treatment for not overwhelming hospitals, which is a very good thing.

 
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  1. Some people would like most businesses to go broke. Then they won’t have those evil business owners fighting their plans.

    • Disagree: Peter Frost
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Some people would like most businesses to go broke.
     
    The MSM and the Dems don't give a damn about small businesses, since most of them are run by evil white men.

    HRC said something like this when criticized by what her health plan might do to small businesses: "I can't be responsible for every under-capitalized small business in this country."
    , @Peter Akuleyev
    Some people would like most businesses to go broke. Then they won’t have those evil business owners fighting their plans.

    No, then “some people” can buy those businesses at firesale prices. The people who have the most to gain from the crisis are hedge fund managers and family offices. They have been sitting on billions of dollars of dry powder. Lately asset prices were climbing too high to generate decent returns. The current crisis is the opportunity of the century. Weak businesses and middle class home owners will lose their equity and a small group of people with capital will buy those assets and benefit tremendously. This is why there is a lot of pressure from the donor class on Trump to “stay the course” even if this ends up being electorally disastrous for him personally. Maybe not a coincidence that consensus for a shutdown coalesced about the time it became clear Bernie was done.
  2. One challenge with masks and movie theaters is that theaters make a lot of money on concessions and it’s tough to eat or drink while wearing a mask. Maybe they could encourage people to eat their popcorn outside, before the movie.

    • Replies: @John Achterhof
    Maybe a special mask with a plug-in to accommodate a straw and food slurry delivery system?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-kdRdzxdZQ
    , @Known Fact
    Drive-in movies could make a comeback

    https://www.artsy.net/artwork/o-winston-link-1103-hotshot-eastbound-leager-wv

    , @Kronos
    Just pull a Joe Biden and snip a few holes in the mask.

    https://babylonbee.com/img/articles/article-5930-1.jpg

    https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-cuts-holes-in-medical-mask-so-he-can-still-sniff-people/
    , @Anonymous
    Or invent drinkable pop corn, or soda-pop-corn.

    You can surely use a straw under a mask.
    , @James Speaks

    One challenge with masks and movie theaters
     
    New rating system:
    G
    PG
    PG-13
    R
    NC-17
    CV-19
  3. “This appears to have encouraged most everybody to avoid hospitals like the plague.”

    This Seattle doctor couldn’t avoid the hospital. Interesting there hasn’t been a lot on “noise” about the drug (Actemra) and Vitamin C regimen that saved him. Excerpt from the LA Times article on the doctor’s ordeal:

    “A 6-foot-3, 250-pound former football star who played for Northwestern in the 1996 Rose Bowl, he wasn’t fazed by much. “To worry about myself, as a 44-year-old healthy man, didn’t even cross my mind,” he said in an interview Monday.

    But on March 12, with his wedding day two months away, Padgett became the patient. Soon after being admitted to his own hospital with a fever, cough and difficulty breathing, he was placed on a ventilator. Five days after that, his lungs and kidneys were failing, his heart was in trouble, and doctors figured he had a day or so to live.

    He owes his survival to an elite team of doctors who tried an experimental treatment pioneered in China and used on the sickest of all COVID-19 patients.

    Lessons from his dramatic recovery could help doctors worldwide treat other extremely ill COVID-19 patients. “This is a movie-like save, it doesn’t happen in the real world often,” Dr. Padgett said.

    Once his colleagues at EvergreenHealth realized they had run out of options, they called Swedish Medical Center, one of two Seattle hospitals that has a machine known as an ECMO, which replaces the functions of the heart and lungs. But even after the hospital admitted him, doctors there had to figure out why he was so profoundly sick.

    Based on the astronomical level of inflammation in his body and reports written by Chinese and Italian physicians who had treated the sickest COVID-19 patients, the doctors came to believe that it was not the disease itself killing him but his own immune system.

    It had gone haywire and began to attack itself — a syndrome known as a “cytokine storm.”

    The doctors tried a drug called Actemra, which was designed to treat rheumatoid arthritis but also approved in 2017 to treat cytokine storms in cancer patients.

    Dr. Matt Hartman, a cardiologist, said that after four days on the immunosuppressive drug, supplemented by high-dose vitamin C and other therapies, the level of oxygen in Padgett’s blood improved dramatically. On March 23, doctors were able to take him off life support.
    Four days later, they removed his breathing tube.

    He slowly came out of his sedated coma, at first imagining that he was in the top floor of the Space Needle converted to a COVID ward.”

    Just in case it’s not common knowledge yet, make sure to lie/sleep on your stomach if infected. The lungs most “active” areas are at your back; keep the backs of the lungs as free of fluid as possible.

    As for Movie theaters 🎭, I can’t help but think 2019 was their swan. As more than a few have suggested, I would guess the “big screen” experience is going to be limited to the view through a windshield. Few will risk dying for a movie, a hard sell to find anyone to think it worth even the std flu for a theater view. Unless of course today’s 15 minute test becomes tomorrow’s 15 second test, which almost has to happen if life is to revert close to what it was. You’d have to think that technology would be worth a trillion or two.

    • Thanks: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks. One thing I noticed was that this ER doctor who barely survived CV mentions that he still has physical and cognitive problems that he is going to have to overcome to go back to work. I wonder whether the cognitive problems stem from the disease or the treatment (ventilators tend not to be good for your brain)?
    , @The Wild Geese Howard

    Interesting there hasn’t been a lot on “noise” about the drug (Actemra) and Vitamin C regimen that saved him.
     
    This appears to be happening to every potential treatment that is not an exotic new vaccine that will take at least 18 months to develop.

    I'm sure it's purely coincidence.
    , @Thoughts
    I think you all drastically underestimate how badly people want life to go back to normal.

    I would go to a movie theatre right now and not think twice
    , @Captain Tripps
    I have been musing that drive-in theaters could make a comeback. Though they're only good for movie watching under optimal weather conditions (no precip).
  4. @danand

    “This appears to have encouraged most everybody to avoid hospitals like the plague.”
     
    This Seattle doctor couldn’t avoid the hospital. Interesting there hasn’t been a lot on “noise” about the drug (Actemra) and Vitamin C regimen that saved him. Excerpt from the LA Times article on the doctor’s ordeal:

    “A 6-foot-3, 250-pound former football star who played for Northwestern in the 1996 Rose Bowl, he wasn't fazed by much. “To worry about myself, as a 44-year-old healthy man, didn’t even cross my mind,” he said in an interview Monday.

    But on March 12, with his wedding day two months away, Padgett became the patient. Soon after being admitted to his own hospital with a fever, cough and difficulty breathing, he was placed on a ventilator. Five days after that, his lungs and kidneys were failing, his heart was in trouble, and doctors figured he had a day or so to live.

    He owes his survival to an elite team of doctors who tried an experimental treatment pioneered in China and used on the sickest of all COVID-19 patients.

    Lessons from his dramatic recovery could help doctors worldwide treat other extremely ill COVID-19 patients. "This is a movie-like save, it doesn't happen in the real world often," Dr. Padgett said.

    Once his colleagues at EvergreenHealth realized they had run out of options, they called Swedish Medical Center, one of two Seattle hospitals that has a machine known as an ECMO, which replaces the functions of the heart and lungs. But even after the hospital admitted him, doctors there had to figure out why he was so profoundly sick.

    Based on the astronomical level of inflammation in his body and reports written by Chinese and Italian physicians who had treated the sickest COVID-19 patients, the doctors came to believe that it was not the disease itself killing him but his own immune system.

    It had gone haywire and began to attack itself — a syndrome known as a "cytokine storm."

    The doctors tried a drug called Actemra, which was designed to treat rheumatoid arthritis but also approved in 2017 to treat cytokine storms in cancer patients.

    Dr. Matt Hartman, a cardiologist, said that after four days on the immunosuppressive drug, supplemented by high-dose vitamin C and other therapies, the level of oxygen in Padgett's blood improved dramatically. On March 23, doctors were able to take him off life support.
    Four days later, they removed his breathing tube.

    He slowly came out of his sedated coma, at first imagining that he was in the top floor of the Space Needle converted to a COVID ward.”

     
    Just in case it’s not common knowledge yet, make sure to lie/sleep on your stomach if infected. The lungs most “active” areas are at your back; keep the backs of the lungs as free of fluid as possible.

    As for Movie theaters 🎭, I can’t help but think 2019 was their swan. As more than a few have suggested, I would guess the “big screen” experience is going to be limited to the view through a windshield. Few will risk dying for a movie, a hard sell to find anyone to think it worth even the std flu for a theater view. Unless of course today’s 15 minute test becomes tomorrow’s 15 second test, which almost has to happen if life is to revert close to what it was. You’d have to think that technology would be worth a trillion or two.

    Thanks. One thing I noticed was that this ER doctor who barely survived CV mentions that he still has physical and cognitive problems that he is going to have to overcome to go back to work. I wonder whether the cognitive problems stem from the disease or the treatment (ventilators tend not to be good for your brain)?

    • Replies: @UK
    I know a sobre-minded medical professional who recovered from it. They have been mentally drained even though they were not intubated or hospitalised. Then again, others have not. These things can take time.
    , @utu
    Does a Heart-Lung Machine Cause Brain Fog After Bypass Surgery
    https://health.clevelandclinic.org/does-a-heart-lung-machine-cause-brain-fog-after-bypass-surgery/
    , @Jack D
    ECMOs (heart lung machines) are even worse. It's quite common that men (it's mostly men) who have had heart bypasses (the most common use for them in the past although nowadays a lot of bypasses are done "beating heart") are never quite the same cognitively afterward.
    , @utu
    This doctor form Seattle was saved by ECMO
    https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/13/833734452/-i-felt-like-rip-van-winkle-one-of-first-u-s-doctors-with-covid-19-is-back-home
    , @Sean
    Low oxygen usually carries the risk of permanent damage.. There is not so much of a CO2 buildup with Covid-19 as standard pneumonia, which is why they can dispense with ventilators more than expected.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    If you Google "pumphead", you can read more about it.
    , @captflee
    Having thrice over the last six years survived prolonged intubations (2-3+ weeks), my beloved wife has emerged each time in pretty rough shape neurologically, disoriented, confused, and lacking finer motor skills. We're talking not quite recognizing who I was, off a dozen years or so as to the date, and hundreds of miles as to locale, etc. With time and therapy things have mostly returned to as previous status, though I'd be lying were I to state that she is today the same cognitively as she was ante-morbum, though doubtless the same could be said of me, and I have been in a state of rude good health all the while.
  5. I’d like to hear some stats on Chinese disease and political orientation. I’m guessing it skews heavily democrat.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Douthat talked about it a little. Apparently dissident-right Twitter accounts (Spotted Toad, Cernovich, etc.) noticed it first, then the left (after they realized it made Trump look bad), then the mainstream right (they didn't want to make Trump look bad).
  6. @Ozymandias
    I'd like to hear some stats on Chinese disease and political orientation. I'm guessing it skews heavily democrat.

    Douthat talked about it a little. Apparently dissident-right Twitter accounts (Spotted Toad, Cernovich, etc.) noticed it first, then the left (after they realized it made Trump look bad), then the mainstream right (they didn’t want to make Trump look bad).

    • Replies: @Ozymandias
    Lately there's been a bit of a pissing contest over who has the authority to open the economy back up. Dems assure us that shutting the economy down was entirely Trump's responsibility. Yet Dem governors are now volunteering to take responsibility for keeping it shut down. How is that going to play in heavily democrat areas if Trump opens things back up but their locally elected democrat leaders are forcing the democrat constituency to continue suffering? They will riot and blame the Dems they previously elected. It has to be some kind of Jedi mind trick.
  7. We “flattened the curve” (the new rallying cry of doomers, apparently) so much that hospitals are empty and businesses are failing and another couple ten million people hit the unemployment line.

    Possibly an overreaction?

    Nah. Sound public policy. What’s next? I’m thinking small tactical nukes for the bed bug epidemic. Blue states first!

    • Agree: Hail
    • LOL: Federalist
  8. one reason that flight attendants may be less affected than NYC subway workers: obesity appears to be a requirement for the latter job, while it tends to be discouraged in the former

    • Replies: @Lugash
    Similar with waiters and waitresses. They should have been hit hard due to their exposure to the public, but don't seem to been hit that hard.
    , @Barnard
    Couldn't part of the reason be that the number of flights is way down from normal? The number of flight attendants working and the number of flight each of them are working has to be way down. I am also wondering if there are more asymptomatic flight attendants than there are people in other professions. Doing that job for years would constantly expose someone to germs. They may have a stronger immunity response to it.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    NYC subway workers: obesity appears to be a requirement for the latter job

    FWIW, being black also appears to be a requirement.
  9. That’s an intelligent article with very useful advice for policymakers.

    What it doesn’t address is whetger and why this would cause the putative devestating effect of the virus.

    If it can spread around the world from only one person having a weak form of it, presumably it can continue to spread around the world as soon as people leave their homes and the quarter-of-a-million or so virus vessels begin spreading it again.

    Unless of course – most people are immune in the first place, enough people are now antibodied against it to it to have a tougher time to get around, the season change is a bug deal and/or…?

    Steve, if we can re-open the economy (including the traveling and touring economy that is the cash crop of many cities, states and countries) with at least hundreds of thousands of carriers worldwide, maybe we shouldn’t have declared a pandemic and caused mass hysteria and bad decisions including quarantining in the first place?

    To reiterate, the biggest difference between now and March 1st will be that now we will be telling people to chill instead of panic.

    Maybe we should have done that in the first place?

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I like your comment, Moshe, but:

    Maybe we should have done that in the first place?
     
    Maybe "WE", meaning, I suppose the governments of all sorts, should just have STFU and not given advice to and made demands of the population. Now, having the CDC give plenty of stats on a website and seeing/reading some real, honest factual reporting rather than the conduction of a 3-month-long panic-fest, now that would be all right with me. That's how a real, non-hysterical country would handle it.

    Oh, got some spittle on the screen here from cracking myself up about that "real, honest factual" bit - nope, not the Kung Flu, just a sardonic laugh...
    , @Elli
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/komonews.com/amp/news/coronavirus/seattle-researcher-debunks-theory-covid-19-spread-in-calif-in-november

    Most people are not immune by exposure. The Seattle flu samples have been rechecked. 0 out of 3600 taken in January were positive for Covid 19. 3308 February samples, the first positive did not show up until Feb. 21, and only 10 others later that month. Back to October 2019, no Covid 19.

    Some people may be innately immune.

    There are a couple ways to kill an economy. Shut down, lock down is one. Another is to keep going until so many people are sick that everyone is afraid to go out and do their jobs and buy things, and many many people die, and the hospitals and the people who work there are wrecked.

    Give me the first, with protection for essential workers, which might even include housing ( i.e. for immigrant meat plant and agriculture workers living crowded).

    Open the lockdown slowly, carefully.

  10. @Dave Pinsen
    One challenge with masks and movie theaters is that theaters make a lot of money on concessions and it’s tough to eat or drink while wearing a mask. Maybe they could encourage people to eat their popcorn outside, before the movie.

    Maybe a special mask with a plug-in to accommodate a straw and food slurry delivery system?

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54ac2acfe4b03d35acdba4f7/1423854053435-4ZDN6LF8QQRPVZ0UCRNN/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kMn0f8TjPN7gdE5PeQKPulZ7gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z4YTzHvnKhyp6Da-NYroOW3ZGjoBKy3azqku80C789l0kD6Ec8Uq9YczfrzwR7e2MgMieZ353Ztmu1MxSV6Z60I0lSEHzEt8vgQVSgZSKdFBQ/Chech+Gas+Mask+M10M+Front.JPG?format=750w
    https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54ac2acfe4b03d35acdba4f7/1423854451878-38O4ZHYLJ9XD8ZR8K1G5/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kACcDXMHGNkFM3YDpaU_ssR7gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z4YTzHvnKhyp6Da-NYroOW3ZGjoBKy3azqku80C789l0sofvP-RiTb638-KOMjny0tsWtWqbVPtUr1MJVRcwBc3DuN3HoOLj_qTsxwVfAM8vA/Canteen+Back.JPG?format=750w
    , @captflee
    The CBRD masks which I and my crew donned in a Kuwaiti port in 2003 to protect ourselves from a purported Scud attack had a plug for drinking out of a similarly equipped canteen. The ensemble (MOPP gear) one wears to such soirees tends toward the stifling, so one quickly gets rather parched.

    But, yeah, John, up the diameter and that popcorn and Cocola slurry becomes possible. John saves Hollywood!
  11. The drug, Actemra, is used to treat rheumatoid arthritis, as is chloroquine.

  12. Both Italy and the US were traditionally far quicker to intubate than the UK, I am informed. Possibly because UK experts consider positive pressure in the lungs to be something to be used much more sparingly or possibly because you guys have the resources and so thought you might as well use them.

    Supposedly even the UK is further limiting ventilator use in Chinavirus cases. Indeed, it is “weird” to not be going along with normal protocols and instead doing what “seems like nothing.” Yet preliminary evidence suggests that it is better.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    stop saying and writing intubate. not a thing
  13. I wholly agree that some activities are safer than others. The Family Hodag was supposed to spend a week in NYC this spring doing tourist stuff. That is off the list until vaccines arrive. OTOH, we usually rent a house for a week in a Michigan beach community every summer. One house has a community pool but we have to use the public beach, which gets crowded on the weekend. The house we will rent this year is smaller, no pool but we get a private beach with almost nobody on it.

    It is still dumb that golf courses are closed. Just carry your bag and don’t be an idiot and you will be fine.

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros

    That is off the list until vaccines arrive.
     
    I am sure the vaccine will arrive immediately after the SARS and the MERS vaccines. (If you are thick, that means "never".)

    I wonder if epidemics serve as rallying points for Americans, just like crusades were for Europe. There's so much fervor, so much misdirected hope.

    I only get this feeling: http://www.legorafi.fr/2020/03/12/coronavirus-coronavirus-coronavirus-coronavirus-coronavirus/
    , @Ganderson
    Since we’re going all fashie and everything anyway, we could ban golf carts permanently, with possible exceptions for the actually infirm. Take a caddy- a job we could bring back, or get a push cart. Better for everyone! You’re welcome.

    Oh, and on those modern resort courses where there’re 5 miles between the green and the next tee, I suppose there could be a shuttle- combine it with the beverage cart.

    , @The Alarmist

    That is off the list until vaccines arrive.
     
    Good luck with that. There's still no way of knowing if a viable vaccine can be made. Human trials of a NERS-CoV (the one from 2012) showed promising results ... as of mid 2019. But hey, you can volunteer to be a test subject if you are itching to get there.

    Even if a viable vaccine can be made, it is not clear whether any protection it might provide will be persistent for a meaningful period of time. The MERS-CoV trials suggested persistence at least as good as that observed in those actually infected. The last study I read on that suggested that 86% (6 out of 7 observed) showed antibodies at least 18 months on.
  14. @Steve Sailer
    Thanks. One thing I noticed was that this ER doctor who barely survived CV mentions that he still has physical and cognitive problems that he is going to have to overcome to go back to work. I wonder whether the cognitive problems stem from the disease or the treatment (ventilators tend not to be good for your brain)?

    I know a sobre-minded medical professional who recovered from it. They have been mentally drained even though they were not intubated or hospitalised. Then again, others have not. These things can take time.

    • Replies: @UK
    Having said that, it does seem like it may have some effects in the brain.

    The olfactory nerve is there and it is weirdly affected. Furthermore, the breathing difficulties "seem" like neurological ones to some extent. And the sometimes sudden death from heart issues likely lies there too.

    I cannot defend the above observations. They are not my own. Nonetheless, they are from a well-informed source. My language may be less precise than that which was used to convey these ideas to me too.
  15. @SFG
    Douthat talked about it a little. Apparently dissident-right Twitter accounts (Spotted Toad, Cernovich, etc.) noticed it first, then the left (after they realized it made Trump look bad), then the mainstream right (they didn't want to make Trump look bad).

    Lately there’s been a bit of a pissing contest over who has the authority to open the economy back up. Dems assure us that shutting the economy down was entirely Trump’s responsibility. Yet Dem governors are now volunteering to take responsibility for keeping it shut down. How is that going to play in heavily democrat areas if Trump opens things back up but their locally elected democrat leaders are forcing the democrat constituency to continue suffering? They will riot and blame the Dems they previously elected. It has to be some kind of Jedi mind trick.

    • Replies: @peterike

    Yet Dem governors are now volunteering to take responsibility for keeping it shut down. How is that going to play in heavily democrat areas if Trump opens things back up but their locally elected democrat leaders are forcing the democrat constituency to continue suffering? They will riot and blame the Dems they previously elected.
     
    No, the media will say it's Trump's fault, no matter what. Do what Trump says, Trump's fault. Don't do what Trump says, Trump's fault. Trump is the solution to all political problems.
    , @Hibernian
    A lot of people would do well to read the Constitution of the United States. You know, that musty old document drawn up and signed by evil patriarchal white male slaveowners. I will make it a personal project to read the current Illinois constitution, which I think was adopted in the late '60s or early '70s. I'm going to be looking for the part that authorizes the Governor to rule by decree during emergencies that he personally has declared without the need for anyone else's approval.
  16. @Steve Sailer
    Thanks. One thing I noticed was that this ER doctor who barely survived CV mentions that he still has physical and cognitive problems that he is going to have to overcome to go back to work. I wonder whether the cognitive problems stem from the disease or the treatment (ventilators tend not to be good for your brain)?
  17. To test the BCG hypothesis Chicanos could be compared with Mexican immigrants. Mexico has 96% BCG vaccination coverage.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Good idea.
  18. “Closing the cinemas of Hollywood signaled to the world that you really don’t want to go to the movies until this thing is over.”

    No, it signaled you should never go to the movies. First, you can watch any movie at home, with people you care about. Second, you can get any new covid before panic begins. Third, you can avoid bn (or Gypsies, if in Romania), which is always a good thing. Finally, movies are defacate learn nothing.

    On that last note: please avoid patronize ballpark stadium indoor mall starbuck bathhouse. I will never advise it’s safe.

  19. @Hodag
    I wholly agree that some activities are safer than others. The Family Hodag was supposed to spend a week in NYC this spring doing tourist stuff. That is off the list until vaccines arrive. OTOH, we usually rent a house for a week in a Michigan beach community every summer. One house has a community pool but we have to use the public beach, which gets crowded on the weekend. The house we will rent this year is smaller, no pool but we get a private beach with almost nobody on it.

    It is still dumb that golf courses are closed. Just carry your bag and don't be an idiot and you will be fine.

    That is off the list until vaccines arrive.

    I am sure the vaccine will arrive immediately after the SARS and the MERS vaccines. (If you are thick, that means “never”.)

    I wonder if epidemics serve as rallying points for Americans, just like crusades were for Europe. There’s so much fervor, so much misdirected hope.

    I only get this feeling: http://www.legorafi.fr/2020/03/12/coronavirus-coronavirus-coronavirus-coronavirus-coronavirus/

    • Replies: @Servant of Gla'aki

    I am sure the vaccine will arrive immediately after the SARS and the MERS vaccines. (If you are thick, that means “never”.)
     
    I suspect we're putting a Hell of a lot more resources into developing a COVID-19 vaccine, but your observation is never-the-less pretty darn depressing. Oh boy.
  20. @Hodag
    I wholly agree that some activities are safer than others. The Family Hodag was supposed to spend a week in NYC this spring doing tourist stuff. That is off the list until vaccines arrive. OTOH, we usually rent a house for a week in a Michigan beach community every summer. One house has a community pool but we have to use the public beach, which gets crowded on the weekend. The house we will rent this year is smaller, no pool but we get a private beach with almost nobody on it.

    It is still dumb that golf courses are closed. Just carry your bag and don't be an idiot and you will be fine.

    Since we’re going all fashie and everything anyway, we could ban golf carts permanently, with possible exceptions for the actually infirm. Take a caddy- a job we could bring back, or get a push cart. Better for everyone! You’re welcome.

    Oh, and on those modern resort courses where there’re 5 miles between the green and the next tee, I suppose there could be a shuttle- combine it with the beverage cart.

  21. @danand

    “This appears to have encouraged most everybody to avoid hospitals like the plague.”
     
    This Seattle doctor couldn’t avoid the hospital. Interesting there hasn’t been a lot on “noise” about the drug (Actemra) and Vitamin C regimen that saved him. Excerpt from the LA Times article on the doctor’s ordeal:

    “A 6-foot-3, 250-pound former football star who played for Northwestern in the 1996 Rose Bowl, he wasn't fazed by much. “To worry about myself, as a 44-year-old healthy man, didn’t even cross my mind,” he said in an interview Monday.

    But on March 12, with his wedding day two months away, Padgett became the patient. Soon after being admitted to his own hospital with a fever, cough and difficulty breathing, he was placed on a ventilator. Five days after that, his lungs and kidneys were failing, his heart was in trouble, and doctors figured he had a day or so to live.

    He owes his survival to an elite team of doctors who tried an experimental treatment pioneered in China and used on the sickest of all COVID-19 patients.

    Lessons from his dramatic recovery could help doctors worldwide treat other extremely ill COVID-19 patients. "This is a movie-like save, it doesn't happen in the real world often," Dr. Padgett said.

    Once his colleagues at EvergreenHealth realized they had run out of options, they called Swedish Medical Center, one of two Seattle hospitals that has a machine known as an ECMO, which replaces the functions of the heart and lungs. But even after the hospital admitted him, doctors there had to figure out why he was so profoundly sick.

    Based on the astronomical level of inflammation in his body and reports written by Chinese and Italian physicians who had treated the sickest COVID-19 patients, the doctors came to believe that it was not the disease itself killing him but his own immune system.

    It had gone haywire and began to attack itself — a syndrome known as a "cytokine storm."

    The doctors tried a drug called Actemra, which was designed to treat rheumatoid arthritis but also approved in 2017 to treat cytokine storms in cancer patients.

    Dr. Matt Hartman, a cardiologist, said that after four days on the immunosuppressive drug, supplemented by high-dose vitamin C and other therapies, the level of oxygen in Padgett's blood improved dramatically. On March 23, doctors were able to take him off life support.
    Four days later, they removed his breathing tube.

    He slowly came out of his sedated coma, at first imagining that he was in the top floor of the Space Needle converted to a COVID ward.”

     
    Just in case it’s not common knowledge yet, make sure to lie/sleep on your stomach if infected. The lungs most “active” areas are at your back; keep the backs of the lungs as free of fluid as possible.

    As for Movie theaters 🎭, I can’t help but think 2019 was their swan. As more than a few have suggested, I would guess the “big screen” experience is going to be limited to the view through a windshield. Few will risk dying for a movie, a hard sell to find anyone to think it worth even the std flu for a theater view. Unless of course today’s 15 minute test becomes tomorrow’s 15 second test, which almost has to happen if life is to revert close to what it was. You’d have to think that technology would be worth a trillion or two.

    Interesting there hasn’t been a lot on “noise” about the drug (Actemra) and Vitamin C regimen that saved him.

    This appears to be happening to every potential treatment that is not an exotic new vaccine that will take at least 18 months to develop.

    I’m sure it’s purely coincidence.

    • Replies: @res
    Or is a treatment which could be hugely profitable for drug makers.
  22. It is still dumb that golf courses are closed.

    It’s funny how so many of the new rules come off as someone’s arbitrary power trip rather than a well-thought out plan to safeguard public health.

    Again, I’m sure it’s purely coincidence.

    • Replies: @Hail

    someone’s arbitrary power trip
     
    Several epitaphs (and probably some epithets) deserve to be imprinted upon the tomb of the Great Corona Panic of 2020, when it is finally over and laid to rest.

    Space allowing, I'd like to nominate these four words.
  23. @Steve Sailer
    Thanks. One thing I noticed was that this ER doctor who barely survived CV mentions that he still has physical and cognitive problems that he is going to have to overcome to go back to work. I wonder whether the cognitive problems stem from the disease or the treatment (ventilators tend not to be good for your brain)?

    ECMOs (heart lung machines) are even worse. It’s quite common that men (it’s mostly men) who have had heart bypasses (the most common use for them in the past although nowadays a lot of bypasses are done “beating heart”) are never quite the same cognitively afterward.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Agree. It's called something like "pump death" where your brain is deprived of just enough oxygen to cause some minor damage. Bill Clinton is a good example.
    , @MB
    The explanation I heard was that micro particles of plastic from the machine get into your blood stream and brain.
  24. We don’t need everyone to wear N95 masks. That’s overkill when it comes to spreading the virus. Plain old surgical or cloth masks are enough.

    • Replies: @moshe
    Maybe Roger, but I reckon that many people will be as selfish as I am and think:

    I don't have no stinkin virus so there's no way I'm wearing a stinkin mask as a Quarantinism Religious Ritual where "we all must do our (meaningless) part".

    If it's an N95 mask that PROTECTS ME TOO, then I would still rather not wear it but I appreciate that this popular religion is taking ME into account and not just demanding I do something "for the sake of...", so I'm less likely to actively oppose it and more likely to go along with it (for a week or a month) and see whether it has an effect.

    Also, if there are punishments that go along with not wearing a mask I am more likely to proudly accept those punishments against wearing a purely "communistic" mask, than a more "socialistic" one that includes caring about my own health as a person, rather than just "doing my part" as a cog in the machine of what they call "the general good".

    , @Lars Porsena
    You know, unlike surgical masks or just a scarf or something, N95 masks may not even have the benefit of protecting others if the wearer is sick.

    Come to think of it most of them have a valve in them. They only filter the air you breath in, not the air you breath out. That blows out the 1 way valve. And also around the mask as the mask pushes off your face when you breath out unless it is strapped ridiculously tight.

    Hazmat suits I think are the same way. They are meant to keep things out not in. They filter the intake but the out-take is just blasted out into the air.
  25. “The good news is that we actually have flattened the curve.”

    “We” had little to do with it. It’s like saying we all turned our air conditioners on in December to help kick start winter.

  26. @Steve Sailer
    Thanks. One thing I noticed was that this ER doctor who barely survived CV mentions that he still has physical and cognitive problems that he is going to have to overcome to go back to work. I wonder whether the cognitive problems stem from the disease or the treatment (ventilators tend not to be good for your brain)?
  27. @Steve Sailer
    Thanks. One thing I noticed was that this ER doctor who barely survived CV mentions that he still has physical and cognitive problems that he is going to have to overcome to go back to work. I wonder whether the cognitive problems stem from the disease or the treatment (ventilators tend not to be good for your brain)?

    Low oxygen usually carries the risk of permanent damage.. There is not so much of a CO2 buildup with Covid-19 as standard pneumonia, which is why they can dispense with ventilators more than expected.

  28. Did we flatten the curve? Or was this going to happen anyway, except for a few hot spots?

    Doesn’t look like the outcomes in Sweden and Germany are all that different. Did Latin America or Africa do much of anything?

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @epebble

    Latin America or Africa
     
    Nothing happened there; nothing to flatten. Largest African deaths are in Algeria: 336. Latin America and Africa may have an order of magnitude higher traffic fatalities.
    , @Anonymous

    Doesn’t look like the outcomes in Sweden and Germany are all that different. Did Latin America or Africa do much of anything?
     
    Is there a way to make virus fight virus?

    In the 80s, there was East Coast rappers and West Coast rappers and they whupped each other.

    Is there a way to tweak the viruses so that they fight it out among themselves? It's like Godzilla was made to fight King Kong. Make monster fight monster.

    That'd be worth several Nobel prizes.
    , @Anonymous Jew
    I just looked this up since I was arguing with a Lib. Note I am strongly for ending the lockdown immediately and letting individuals determine their own risk level and acting appropriately.

    Sweden’s death rate is double that of Denmark’s and about 30% above ours. You can also look between states - ie the Dakotas (no lockdown) v Wyoming.

    While I will admit that the lockdowns do have some effect, they would probably be just as effective if they were better targeted. Also, weather, living conditions and other factors appear to have a much bigger impact than whether or not a lockdown is in place. Compare New York to the Dakotas, or the Sunbelt to the Northeast.

    Just because a policy decision saves lives does not mean it’s a good policy decision. The lockdown is like lowering the highway speed limit to 10 mph because 36,500 people die per year in traffic accidents. There are better ways to go about things, and sometimes we’re better off just letting more people die. Recall the median age of Coronavirus deaths in Italy is a only a few years younger than the average life expectancy (appropriately one year for men).

    The fat lady hasn’t sung yet. Sweden may not be so bad in the long run because they’re getting herd immunity now. In rural states, the lockdown appears to have virtually no effect. Having the same restrictions for New York and a rural town in the sunbelt is just asinine.

    We forget that roughly 600,000 people a year die in this country due to smoking, drugs and alcohol. We’re OK with that because we place an extremely high value on freedom, and we’re ok with policy decisions that lead to excess deaths if they preserve our individual freedoms. We also forget that a few years ago we lost 61,000 to the flu (per the CDC). Based on our current knowledge of Coronavirus our current policy approach is inconsistent with how we traditionally balance risk, freedom and utility against excess deaths. Personally I think this is just insane for a virus that has an IFR of around .2 - .3%

  29. Masks only work if they are worn correctly. Every day, during media reports, people are shown wearing masks incorrectly such as having a too small mask, having their nose above the mask, having the mask around their neck, or not using the straps correctly.

    Masks help but will never solve all problems.

  30. @moshe
    That's an intelligent article with very useful advice for policymakers.

    What it doesn't address is whetger and why this would cause the putative devestating effect of the virus.

    If it can spread around the world from only one person having a weak form of it, presumably it can continue to spread around the world as soon as people leave their homes and the quarter-of-a-million or so virus vessels begin spreading it again.

    Unless of course - most people are immune in the first place, enough people are now antibodied against it to it to have a tougher time to get around, the season change is a bug deal and/or...?

    Steve, if we can re-open the economy (including the traveling and touring economy that is the cash crop of many cities, states and countries) with at least hundreds of thousands of carriers worldwide, maybe we shouldn't have declared a pandemic and caused mass hysteria and bad decisions including quarantining in the first place?

    To reiterate, the biggest difference between now and March 1st will be that now we will be telling people to chill instead of panic.

    Maybe we should have done that in the first place?

    I like your comment, Moshe, but:

    Maybe we should have done that in the first place?

    Maybe “WE”, meaning, I suppose the governments of all sorts, should just have STFU and not given advice to and made demands of the population. Now, having the CDC give plenty of stats on a website and seeing/reading some real, honest factual reporting rather than the conduction of a 3-month-long panic-fest, now that would be all right with me. That’s how a real, non-hysterical country would handle it.

    Oh, got some spittle on the screen here from cracking myself up about that “real, honest factual” bit – nope, not the Kung Flu, just a sardonic laugh…

  31. “NYC doctors are much more reluctant to intubate than they were a month ago”

    You don’t wanna know how I misread this at first..

  32. @Dave Pinsen
    One challenge with masks and movie theaters is that theaters make a lot of money on concessions and it’s tough to eat or drink while wearing a mask. Maybe they could encourage people to eat their popcorn outside, before the movie.
    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    Let's hope so. My friends own a Drive-In in Michigan. Myself and my kids help with maintenance, cleaning and concessions, and our Caitlyn Jenner look-alike governor has really f'ed up their business.
  33. Less patients need ventilators thanks to the Trump Tonic of hydroxychloroquine combined with Zinc and antibiotics. Doctors are quickly seeing the improvement of patients receiving the Trump Tonic and thus less need for ICU beds and patients are leaving the hospital faster than expected.

    People will feel confident to leave the house when the supply of hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine is adequate and pharmacies have it available to people who have a prescription for it. It is currently impossible to obtain even Tonic water in the state of New Jersey. Luckily I was able to obtain a supply of quercetin and zinc. But Zinc is very difficult to obtain now, back-ordered at Amazon. My next shipment will arrive in May. Walmart, Target and even the local liquor stores are out of Tonic water but still have plenty of gin in stock.

    In addition to securing supplies of Chloroquine , we need to have adequate supplies of masks for workers to feel confident going back to work. Sadly the United States is unable to manufacture enough masks and we do not have the ability to produce Chloroquine due to a shortage of the ingredients (which have been hoarded by Asian nations)

    • Replies: @Elli
    The synthesis of hydroxychloroquine does not require any scarce ingredients. It is a fairly small organic molecule. Sufficient production does require industrial scale expertise and equipment which we have off-shored for thirty years.

    https://www.beilstein-journals.org/bjoc/articles/14/45
    , @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    We bought Tonic water at my local Target... and started drinking a liter each day as a prophylactic with zinc , quercetin and vitamin D

    In this way I obtain 83 mg of quinine each day...will double the dose if any symptoms develop.
    , @anon

    Zinc is very difficult to obtain now, back-ordered at Amazon
     
    Post 1982 penny is 97.5% zinc; just file or sandpaper off the copper film and you have pure metallic zinc. It can be easily compounded in lemon juice (citric acid) or Coke/Pepsi (phosphoric acid).
  34. @Redneck farmer
    Some people would like most businesses to go broke. Then they won't have those evil business owners fighting their plans.

    Some people would like most businesses to go broke.

    The MSM and the Dems don’t give a damn about small businesses, since most of them are run by evil white men.

    HRC said something like this when criticized by what her health plan might do to small businesses: “I can’t be responsible for every under-capitalized small business in this country.”

    • Replies: @res
    Here's a 1993 reference for that HRC quote: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1993-10-13-9310130145-story.html
  35. @Jack D
    ECMOs (heart lung machines) are even worse. It's quite common that men (it's mostly men) who have had heart bypasses (the most common use for them in the past although nowadays a lot of bypasses are done "beating heart") are never quite the same cognitively afterward.

    Agree. It’s called something like “pump death” where your brain is deprived of just enough oxygen to cause some minor damage. Bill Clinton is a good example.

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
    "Pump head" is/was the term of art:

    For many years, in the surgeon’s locker room (which actually has much in common with other kinds of locker rooms), cardiac surgeons would mention to each other a phenomenon they often referred to as “pump head.” Pump head was a term used to describe impairment in a mental capacity they sometimes noticed in their patients following coronary artery bypass surgery. It got this name because the presumption was that cognitive impairment after bypass surgery was related to the use of the cardiopulmonary bypass pump during the procedure.

    For a long time, talk about this phenomenon never got far beyond the locker room.

    In 2001, a study from Duke University seemed to confirm what many doctors had long suspected, but had been reluctant to discuss openly.1 Namely, a substantial proportion of people after coronary artery bypass surgery subsequently experience measurable (but most often temporary) impairment in their mental capabilities. This study received a lot of publicity after its publication in the New England Journal of Medicine and caused a lot of concern among both doctors and their prospective patients. But the worry quickly faded away, and the general public really hasn’t heard much about it since.

    However, in the intervening years much more has been learned about mental changes after bypass surgery. For one thing, the phenomenon is real. For another, it is probably not related to the use of the bypass pump, but rather, is more likely related to the manipulation of the large blood vessels that is necessary during this type of surgery.
     
    Many regard it as bullshit since geezers tend to fog up on their own.
  36. @Hodag
    I wholly agree that some activities are safer than others. The Family Hodag was supposed to spend a week in NYC this spring doing tourist stuff. That is off the list until vaccines arrive. OTOH, we usually rent a house for a week in a Michigan beach community every summer. One house has a community pool but we have to use the public beach, which gets crowded on the weekend. The house we will rent this year is smaller, no pool but we get a private beach with almost nobody on it.

    It is still dumb that golf courses are closed. Just carry your bag and don't be an idiot and you will be fine.

    That is off the list until vaccines arrive.

    Good luck with that. There’s still no way of knowing if a viable vaccine can be made. Human trials of a NERS-CoV (the one from 2012) showed promising results … as of mid 2019. But hey, you can volunteer to be a test subject if you are itching to get there.

    Even if a viable vaccine can be made, it is not clear whether any protection it might provide will be persistent for a meaningful period of time. The MERS-CoV trials suggested persistence at least as good as that observed in those actually infected. The last study I read on that suggested that 86% (6 out of 7 observed) showed antibodies at least 18 months on.

    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
    Vaccination? There’s not even a reliable test for COVID-19 yet. The rate of false +/- is not good.
    , @anonymous
    Covid-19 vaccine virus in 18 months??? Sorry but this boomer will focus on keeping his immune system in top shape and rolling his own dice.

    The weak persistence from any potential Covid-19 vaccine is one issue.

    But I think there are other reasons that there have been problems developing SARS and Corona virus vaccines for over a decade that are well known but not being talked about enough,

    This is from Robert Kennedy Jr's and anti-big Pharma outfit Childrens Health Defense childrenshealthdefense.org

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=178&v=RzFP4yzZzII&feature=emb_logo

    You can discount it, but the video raises lots of question of whether or not any Corona virus vaccine will face the same hurdles that have confronted developing vaccines for dengue fever for decades. There is a trade off in attempting to immunize in regards to developing good and persistent "neutralizing" antibodies at the expense of bad and more persistent "binding" antibodies. Binding antibodies can actually weaken the immune system if actually infected or reinfected at a later date with a different strain and possibly trigger long term autoimmune side effects as well.

    And what seems to be so deadly about Covid-19 is that the body's innate inflammatory autoimmune response is often so much stronger than its more precise adaptive immune system. Interestingly Hydrochloroquine and zync are used for both malaria and the autoimmune disease lupus.

    That maybe why collecting plasma from recently recovered Covid-19 patients seems to be of such interest. You are potentially transmitting a higher ratio of good neutralizing antibodies for just the right strain of the virus in your area with a lower potential long term downside risk.

    I am in no way an anti-vaccination type but I have major issues with big pharma. Guess it is because I struggled for years with bad nutritional advice, "food pyramid" until I went hardcore Keto-IF. I have not had a cold or bout of the flu in years.

    Check out this on Bill Gates and Big Pharma.

    Gates’ Globalist Vaccine Agenda: A Win-Win for Pharma and Mandatory Vaccination
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/government-corruption/gates-globalist-vaccine-agenda-a-win-win-for-pharma-and-mandatory-vaccination/
  37. … because ventilators aren’t working very well.

    That assumes that ventilator misuse is not a major contributor to the problem.

    This is not as dramatic as Dr. Kyle-Siddel’s earlier video, but it is informative of the issues involved:

  38. Oh, you mean…

    And for fairness in presentation:

  39. The researchers point to a fun Carnival party on Feb. 15 at which Heinsberg residents dressed up in their traditional outfits and did their traditional dances as the local super-spreader event.

    The solution is easy then – outlaw traditional outfits and traditional dances. I always hated lederhosen anyway.

    As of April 8, two of American Airlines’ 28,000 flight attendants were said to have died of COVID-19.

    Is two a big number? By way of comparison, at least 59 of the 71,000 employees of New York’s Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs subways, buses, and commuter rails, have died of coronavirus as of April 14.

    This likely has little to do with the occupational hazards of being a flight attendant vs. a bus driver and more to do with the fact that NYC in general is currently a hotbed of infection and transit workers are from the minority communities that have been especially hard hit, both due to their lack of social distancing in the hood and due to their higher rates of comorbidity. In Philly several transit employees have died but none of them were in public facing jobs – they were mechanics and the like.

    All 28,000 flight attendants walk up and down the close confines of aircraft while of the 71,000 transit employees, probably 80% or more don’t interact directly with the public, at least not nearly as intimately as flight attendants. The subway conductors and motormen and ticket sellers are all sealed in their little booths, not to mention all the mechanics, etc. that you never see at all. Even the bus drivers now have little interaction since they stopped charging fares and have everyone board from the rear doors.

    To provide everyone in America with a fresh N95 mask every day would require 10 billion masks per month.

    It’s completely unnecessary for the public to change masks daily. Masks can be sanitized thru a variety of ways and reused many times. Nor is it necessary to give everyone N95s. If the goal is to keep people from SPREADING rather than catching the virus then even simple cloth masks are good enough.

    • Replies: @Coemgen
    I'm going to assume that MTA employees are as likely as MBTA employees to participate in communal dope smoking. Thus no interaction with the public is needed to spread COVID-19 within the work force. I wonder how they pass their urine tests?
  40. Hail says: • Website

    Even in New York City, few hospitals are overwhelmed

    This appears to have encouraged most everybody to avoid hospitals like the plague

    This is, of course, the reason not to promote a Panic.

    Elsewhere someone recently wrote that the whole CoronaPanic recently observed, and ongoing, was a good thing because it prepared people. (I would say the data was always ambiguous; with each passing week, it has looked better and better, with plausible true fatality rates down hugging closer towards 0.1%, perhaps above it but just as plausibly actually below it. The media has seldom or never reported this good news.)

    The problem with Panics is: People indulge (believe) in the panic and act irrationally, and bad things happen, and people die.

    If you have a heart attack, our medical system can help you, and these days in most cases has no problem saving your life and helping your full recovery. If you have what seems like it may be a heart attack but choose to refuse medical assistance and continue hiding out, in fear of The Virus you have heard so much about (why risk going to a hospital! Are you crazy? The virus!), and then you die, whose fault is the death?

    …If it turns out that more people died in New York City because of the CoronaPanic than because of the CoronaVirus — this before even starting to count the effects of the huge social-economic disruption (CoronaSuicides will be an easily measurable one) — what then? I wonder if the media will even report it, or, if they do, if those people will be spin-doctor’ed-away into collateral corona victims, rather than Panic victims.

    The now-released Week 14 Total Deaths data out of the UK suggests this has happened there. Excess deaths which were negative for the virus and total deaths positive for the virus were both a few thousand. Note that latter category is not unambiguously “excess,” given the “deaths with vs. deaths from” problem, which suggests that an easy majority of excess deaths in the UK, even in the immediate term, were preventable and caused by the Panic itself and not by the Virus.

    • Replies: @vhrm

    …If it turns out that more people died in New York City because of the CoronaPanic than because of the CoronaVirus — this before even starting to count the effects of the huge social-economic disruption (CoronaSuicides will be an easily measurable one) — what then? I wonder if the media will even report it, or, if they do, if those people will be spin-doctor’ed-away into collateral corona victims, rather than Panic victims.
     
    It probably won't be "more people" but a lot.

    Last week when NYC was having ~600 corona deaths a day an EMT Union guy complained that they had dealt with 180 cardiac arrests in people's homes in one day vs 20 on a normal day.

    In sure there will be many retrospectives on this response since it is unprecedented in scale in modern history on many different variables but there politicians will all skate because they did it "for the children" etc.

    It would be amusing to have a tribunal where all the governors, and mayors who issued shelter-in-place orders, their health officials and any cop who enforced their orders are tried and convicted for Civil Rights violations.

    They could be sentenced to various terms of house arrest (with no visitors) based on their level of contribution to the oppression, followed by longer terms of being banned from all parks and beaches. Enforced with ankle monitors.
  41. By putting fatties in spin classes and harnessing the output to power ventilators we could reduce obesity, an apparent contributing factor to Covid-19 morbidity, as well as ensuring we have enough ventilators to meet the anticipated demand. We have got to start thinking outside the box.

    • LOL: Kylie, RadicalCenter
  42. @O'Really
    one reason that flight attendants may be less affected than NYC subway workers: obesity appears to be a requirement for the latter job, while it tends to be discouraged in the former

    Similar with waiters and waitresses. They should have been hit hard due to their exposure to the public, but don’t seem to been hit that hard.

  43. Thanks for clearly laying out what few people (Trump included) seem to understand about re-opening the economy: you need say-so not just from state entities but from consumers and companies (and, as your movie co. and movie theater example shows, usually more than one company must give the say-so for any economic sector to reboot; if Disneyland says “re-open!” but whatever mechanics union fixes the rides says “not yet,” then Disneyland stays closed).

    And, oddly enough, it really was companies and organizations who led the economic shutdown. No one told the NBA or MLB to shut down. Nearly every university and K-12 district in the nation shut down well before any state mandates. Ditto a lot of restaurants. And the movie theaters and production companies. Etc etc etc.

    I’d like to see the state and federal directives lifted. That’s the easiest blockage to clear. Then each sector can figure out what works for itself, with businesses leading and consumers shortly following.

    • Replies: @Hail

    oddly enough, it really was companies and organizations who led the economic shutdown. No one told the NBA or MLB to shut down. Nearly every university and K-12 district in the nation shut down well before any state mandates. Ditto a lot of restaurants. And the movie theaters and production companies. Etc etc etc.
     
    These entities were not near the top of the chain in the international chain-reaction-of-overreactions. It was a media-induced panic, a feeding-frenzy of bad-data, Doomer fantasies, and opportunists of lots of stripes feeding one off the other. The entities you name followed the media's lead and reacted to general panic conditions.

    As a test of this, did any major entity, of NBA or MLB sort, order a shutdown in operations before the Toiler Paper Panics started cropping up? This could be checked; I am sure the answer is No.

    The 'pandemic' in final analysis may be remembered more as an info-pandemic than a viral-pandemic. A case of our technology being radically weaponized against us.

  44. OT: Apparently, Chris “Fredo” Cuomo, who is Covid-positive, has been roaming around and not following quarantine. He threatened some cyclist who pointed out that that’s not ok.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/hes-scary-stupid-new-york-cyclist-singled-out-in-chris-cuomo-radio-rant-files-police-report

    • LOL: Jack Armstrong
    • Replies: @Hail

    Chris “Fredo” Cuomo, who is Covid-positive, has been roaming around and not following quarantine
     
    This is the guy who literally cries on TV over coronavirus victims.

    +1 datapoint for Corona Coverage as 'prolefeed.' "For them, not us."

    , @Paleo Liberal
    Fredo appears to have a bit of an anger management issue.
    , @Jack D
    OTOH, I despise Cuomo's "quarantines are for the little people" attitude.

    But, OTOH, apparently his "crime" was to take his family to see their summer house that is under construction. While this technically may violate the "everyone should stay locked in their houses and go out only when absolutely necessary" requirements, these requirements are stupid. How does it hurt anyone for Cuomo's family to travel by car from one home to another? And I have no use for snitches and busybodies who take it upon themselves to enforce stupid laws like this. Although I would never make violent (and probably idle) threats like Fredo, I would have also told the guy to mind his own damn business.

    This is like one of those Iran vs. Iraq War situations where it's a pity that BOTH sides can't lose.
    , @Redman
    I believe I've posted about Chris Cuomo in the past when he had the run in with the guy who called him Fredo. He was in my law school class at Fordham. Back in 1992 (our first year), Cuomo got into a fight at the local UWS bar that students would go to on Thursday nights.

    I looked up from my group when I heard a loud commotion and saw Chris being held back by 3 or 4 employees of the bar. He was shouting and swearing at some guy and lunging to try to get at him, while being held back. The guy (who I barely saw) was ushered out the door by the bouncer.

    I later was told that he worked at the bar the summer before law school as a bouncer and was friends with all the bouncers and other employees who worked at the bar. It's one thing to get into a bar fight, but another to do so when you know the bouncer crew has your back. One might say that's actually smart, but it's also an unattractive quality. Definitely in the punching down category.
  45. anonymous[402] • Disclaimer says:

    Besides mass testing what appears to be needed are low cost relatively low risk treatments. This so far seems to be the most promising option.

    Head lice drug ivermectin being studied as possible coronavirus treatment

    https://nypost.com/2020/04/14/head-lice-drug-being-studied-as-possible-coronavirus-treatment/

    And at Broward Health Medical Center in Florida, Dr. Jean-Jacques Rajter has already been using ivermectin in addition to hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin and zinc sulfate to treat his COVID-19 patients, according to NBC Miami.

    “If we get to these people early, and what I mean by that is if their oxygen requirements are less than 50 percent, I’ve had nearly a 100 percent response rate, they all improve, if they’re on more oxygen than that, then it becomes a little more varied, some people, they don’t respond anymore because they are too far advanced,” Rajter told the outlet.

    The doctor is in the process of publishing a scientific paper, but it could take weeks for the findings to be publicized.

    “But if I wait, every day that goes by is another day when lots and lots of people get very sick, go to ICU, many of them die and that could theoretically even be preventable and that’s why I thought it was so critically important to get this information out there,” he said.

    His wife, Dr. Juliana Cepelowicz-Rajter, also a pulmonologist, said: “More studies need to be conducted. We haven’t had any ill effects from it and it’s readily available, we have some patients who are pretty advanced, not yet intubated, and even those, in 12 hours, they showed a significant improvement.”

    • Replies: @miss marple
    Giardia is a bacteria that has properties of a parasite so can be treated with antihelminthics (dewormers) like ivermectin. If ivermectin is helping and this isn't a hoax that would indicate a bacteria similar to giardia is involved.
  46. @moshe
    That's an intelligent article with very useful advice for policymakers.

    What it doesn't address is whetger and why this would cause the putative devestating effect of the virus.

    If it can spread around the world from only one person having a weak form of it, presumably it can continue to spread around the world as soon as people leave their homes and the quarter-of-a-million or so virus vessels begin spreading it again.

    Unless of course - most people are immune in the first place, enough people are now antibodied against it to it to have a tougher time to get around, the season change is a bug deal and/or...?

    Steve, if we can re-open the economy (including the traveling and touring economy that is the cash crop of many cities, states and countries) with at least hundreds of thousands of carriers worldwide, maybe we shouldn't have declared a pandemic and caused mass hysteria and bad decisions including quarantining in the first place?

    To reiterate, the biggest difference between now and March 1st will be that now we will be telling people to chill instead of panic.

    Maybe we should have done that in the first place?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/komonews.com/amp/news/coronavirus/seattle-researcher-debunks-theory-covid-19-spread-in-calif-in-november

    Most people are not immune by exposure. The Seattle flu samples have been rechecked. 0 out of 3600 taken in January were positive for Covid 19. 3308 February samples, the first positive did not show up until Feb. 21, and only 10 others later that month. Back to October 2019, no Covid 19.

    Some people may be innately immune.

    There are a couple ways to kill an economy. Shut down, lock down is one. Another is to keep going until so many people are sick that everyone is afraid to go out and do their jobs and buy things, and many many people die, and the hospitals and the people who work there are wrecked.

    Give me the first, with protection for essential workers, which might even include housing ( i.e. for immigrant meat plant and agriculture workers living crowded).

    Open the lockdown slowly, carefully.

  47. I kind of think movie theaters, and movies in general, are doomed, plague or no plague, because they are not the art form which captures the spirit of the new century, in the way that opera defined the nineteenth century and cinema, esp. cinema spectacle on grand, commonly-held public themes, captured the Geist of the 20th century. Woke cinema of the racial bean-counting variety where all the diversities are lined up in their correct pecking order and nobody does a racism, may be satisfying to the commissars and vinegar-drinking scolds, but artistically it satisfies no spiritual hunger (and since the Woke do not have souls, this is unsurprising).

    Maybe it will be gaming (maybe it already is). Artistically, video games now hold the same cultural position did that cinema had circa 1919: a popular and a huge moneymaker, but considered tacky and artistically shallow. Maybe gaming just needs to find its Keaton, Chaplin and Griffith to make it a serious-minded thing.

    For a while it seemed like long-form television might supplant movies artistically — in fact it already has, but it’s unclear whether it has staying power. Think of what digitization has done to everything:

    — the novel is gone
    — poetry is long gone
    — the popular song is gone
    — the “concept album” is gone
    — magazines are gone
    — the funny pages and the Sunday funnies are gone
    — the sitcom is nearly gone
    — movies are nearly gone

    The artistic forms of our present moment are the tweet, the Instagram post, the TikTok video, babbling about racism (across genres), and articles about don’t-touch-my-hair.

    Who knows, maybe the sonnet will make a comeback and we won’t see it coming.

    • Thanks: Old Prude
    • Replies: @Cortes
    Graffiti tagging seems to be growing.

    Tagging sites which look damned hazardous to access appears to be common.

    No stats - just from keeping the eyes peeled.
  48. @O'Really
    one reason that flight attendants may be less affected than NYC subway workers: obesity appears to be a requirement for the latter job, while it tends to be discouraged in the former

    Couldn’t part of the reason be that the number of flights is way down from normal? The number of flight attendants working and the number of flight each of them are working has to be way down. I am also wondering if there are more asymptomatic flight attendants than there are people in other professions. Doing that job for years would constantly expose someone to germs. They may have a stronger immunity response to it.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Doing that job for years would constantly expose someone to germs. They may have a stronger immunity response to it.
     
    My old job entailed frequently meeting arrivals from Tokyo, Amsterdam, and London flights and hence, by transfer, much of Asia and Africa. At physicals and other doctor's appointments, I was asked if I'd been exposed to any communicable diseases. I'd reply, are you kidding? I've been exposed to almost everything the world has to offer!

    Other than a week of laryngitis (cured with Purell; h/t Steve), I never got sick, and was quite flu-resistant all those years. But after 18 months of retirement to relative rural isolation, I got slammed with the worst illness of my life in mid-February. (Kinda early for corona, but perhaps that's what it was.)

    Is the immune system like a muscle, which can atrophy from lack of use?

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Nope, Barnard, the airlines have plenty of flight attendants who want to work, especially with schedules down to 20% of normal. The flights are down because (from my estimate - been traveling lately) the number of passengers is down in the neighborhood of 5%, maybe even less of what it was 2 months back.

    Yes, under 5% is my estimate, as flights have been 5 to 20% full, but this is out of a GREATLY REDUCED schedule.

    The airports are a dead zone, some hubs with multiple concourses closed off.
  49. Hail says: • Website
    @Seth Largo
    Thanks for clearly laying out what few people (Trump included) seem to understand about re-opening the economy: you need say-so not just from state entities but from consumers and companies (and, as your movie co. and movie theater example shows, usually more than one company must give the say-so for any economic sector to reboot; if Disneyland says "re-open!" but whatever mechanics union fixes the rides says "not yet," then Disneyland stays closed).

    And, oddly enough, it really was companies and organizations who led the economic shutdown. No one told the NBA or MLB to shut down. Nearly every university and K-12 district in the nation shut down well before any state mandates. Ditto a lot of restaurants. And the movie theaters and production companies. Etc etc etc.

    I'd like to see the state and federal directives lifted. That's the easiest blockage to clear. Then each sector can figure out what works for itself, with businesses leading and consumers shortly following.

    oddly enough, it really was companies and organizations who led the economic shutdown. No one told the NBA or MLB to shut down. Nearly every university and K-12 district in the nation shut down well before any state mandates. Ditto a lot of restaurants. And the movie theaters and production companies. Etc etc etc.

    These entities were not near the top of the chain in the international chain-reaction-of-overreactions. It was a media-induced panic, a feeding-frenzy of bad-data, Doomer fantasies, and opportunists of lots of stripes feeding one off the other. The entities you name followed the media’s lead and reacted to general panic conditions.

    As a test of this, did any major entity, of NBA or MLB sort, order a shutdown in operations before the Toiler Paper Panics started cropping up? This could be checked; I am sure the answer is No.

    The ‘pandemic’ in final analysis may be remembered more as an info-pandemic than a viral-pandemic. A case of our technology being radically weaponized against us.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    "order a shutdown in operations before the Toiler Paper Panics started cropping up?"

    good observation. Remember Rudy Gobert, douchebag-Utah Jazz, was mocking the virus and licking everything on March 9

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYC6oQIAzbI
    , @Whitey Whiteman III
    You're correct. Even in flyover country, wipes/sanitizer/TP were all already sold out at the beginning of the week that all of the sports shut down at the end of (and into the following week).
  50. @Hypnotoad666
    OT: Apparently, Chris "Fredo" Cuomo, who is Covid-positive, has been roaming around and not following quarantine. He threatened some cyclist who pointed out that that's not ok.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/hes-scary-stupid-new-york-cyclist-singled-out-in-chris-cuomo-radio-rant-files-police-report

    Chris “Fredo” Cuomo, who is Covid-positive, has been roaming around and not following quarantine

    This is the guy who literally cries on TV over coronavirus victims.

    +1 datapoint for Corona Coverage as ‘prolefeed.’ “For them, not us.”

  51. @Steve Sailer
    Thanks. One thing I noticed was that this ER doctor who barely survived CV mentions that he still has physical and cognitive problems that he is going to have to overcome to go back to work. I wonder whether the cognitive problems stem from the disease or the treatment (ventilators tend not to be good for your brain)?

    If you Google “pumphead”, you can read more about it.

  52. @Hypnotoad666
    OT: Apparently, Chris "Fredo" Cuomo, who is Covid-positive, has been roaming around and not following quarantine. He threatened some cyclist who pointed out that that's not ok.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/hes-scary-stupid-new-york-cyclist-singled-out-in-chris-cuomo-radio-rant-files-police-report

    Fredo appears to have a bit of an anger management issue.

    • Agree: Redman
  53. @Hypnotoad666
    OT: Apparently, Chris "Fredo" Cuomo, who is Covid-positive, has been roaming around and not following quarantine. He threatened some cyclist who pointed out that that's not ok.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/hes-scary-stupid-new-york-cyclist-singled-out-in-chris-cuomo-radio-rant-files-police-report

    OTOH, I despise Cuomo’s “quarantines are for the little people” attitude.

    But, OTOH, apparently his “crime” was to take his family to see their summer house that is under construction. While this technically may violate the “everyone should stay locked in their houses and go out only when absolutely necessary” requirements, these requirements are stupid. How does it hurt anyone for Cuomo’s family to travel by car from one home to another? And I have no use for snitches and busybodies who take it upon themselves to enforce stupid laws like this. Although I would never make violent (and probably idle) threats like Fredo, I would have also told the guy to mind his own damn business.

    This is like one of those Iran vs. Iraq War situations where it’s a pity that BOTH sides can’t lose.

  54. jb says:

    To provide everyone in America with a fresh N95 mask every day would require 10 billion masks per month. I’m not aware that anybody in a position of power has been thinking about that very large number.

    How difficult would it be to make reusable N95 masks? Maybe they don’t even need to be N95 (which is uncomfortable to spend a lot of time wearing), just significantly better than homemade cloth masks.

  55. the preliminary finding of the ongoing study in hard-hit Heinsberg, Germany, emphasizes instead the threat from animated face-to-face conversation rather than from quiet shopping

    Any state that doesn’t already have it should pass a law making it a misdemeanor to ignore health advice from a doctor when the advice is designed to protect public health. Then everyone with a cough, a (+) test result, or a close contact who’s sick should be told not to attend parties/weddings/etc

    Steve,

    how is your health data mining to find safe jobs going to work if lots of people are asymptomatic and never got tested? Also, will the huge numbers overwhelm the effect of a superspreader walking into a normally safe shop and infecting everyone there? Also, how are you going to determine if an employee got sick at the office, home, or the bar/pub? I just don’t see how this idea could really work.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "how is your health data mining to find safe jobs going to work if lots of people are asymptomatic and never got tested?"

    What are we up to? 650,000 cases in the U.S.? That's a pretty big sample.

    Do we have some reason to assume that some occupations will be more asymptomatic than others for reasons that aren't captured in data like age, race, and sex? Maybe, but it doesn't sound like a fatal problem for analysis.
  56. @Redneck farmer
    Some people would like most businesses to go broke. Then they won't have those evil business owners fighting their plans.

    Some people would like most businesses to go broke. Then they won’t have those evil business owners fighting their plans.

    No, then “some people” can buy those businesses at firesale prices. The people who have the most to gain from the crisis are hedge fund managers and family offices. They have been sitting on billions of dollars of dry powder. Lately asset prices were climbing too high to generate decent returns. The current crisis is the opportunity of the century. Weak businesses and middle class home owners will lose their equity and a small group of people with capital will buy those assets and benefit tremendously. This is why there is a lot of pressure from the donor class on Trump to “stay the course” even if this ends up being electorally disastrous for him personally. Maybe not a coincidence that consensus for a shutdown coalesced about the time it became clear Bernie was done.

    • Replies: @Kronos

    Maybe not a coincidence that consensus for a shutdown coalesced about the time it became clear Bernie was done.
     
    You think Bernie would’ve won the nomination if the virus broke out 2-3 months earlier? You’d think bashing the stimulus and future financial bailouts would be his bread and butter.
    , @Louis Renault
    Nobody at a hedge fund gives a damn about a local business like the local hair cuttery, restaurant or auto repair shop. They'll be quite happy to help comrade Xi buy up stock in GM, Carnival Cruise Lines and a bunch of NYSE, NASDQ listed ,and other such companies. "The current crisis is..." created by a massive information opertion targeted directly at the very gullible American citizen, much to the delight of America's left, America's enemies and all of Trump's.
  57. @Dave Pinsen
    One challenge with masks and movie theaters is that theaters make a lot of money on concessions and it’s tough to eat or drink while wearing a mask. Maybe they could encourage people to eat their popcorn outside, before the movie.
    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    Will his expected lady veep pick pass his smell test?
  58. @Peter Akuleyev
    Some people would like most businesses to go broke. Then they won’t have those evil business owners fighting their plans.

    No, then “some people” can buy those businesses at firesale prices. The people who have the most to gain from the crisis are hedge fund managers and family offices. They have been sitting on billions of dollars of dry powder. Lately asset prices were climbing too high to generate decent returns. The current crisis is the opportunity of the century. Weak businesses and middle class home owners will lose their equity and a small group of people with capital will buy those assets and benefit tremendously. This is why there is a lot of pressure from the donor class on Trump to “stay the course” even if this ends up being electorally disastrous for him personally. Maybe not a coincidence that consensus for a shutdown coalesced about the time it became clear Bernie was done.

    Maybe not a coincidence that consensus for a shutdown coalesced about the time it became clear Bernie was done.

    You think Bernie would’ve won the nomination if the virus broke out 2-3 months earlier? You’d think bashing the stimulus and future financial bailouts would be his bread and butter.

  59. Steve so so naive. The plan among the media and governors is to bankrupt all businesses. Feds give the a bailout just like last time and they suspend election for a decade in a permanent emergency while being on camera every day.

    Every day. That is the emerging consensus plan.

    They don’t want to give up power absolute power at that. They are deeply stupid. And don’t want business to be a rival.

    This is the move by the Media and government class to seize all power and rule forever.

    • Agree: Jack Armstrong
    • Replies: @Jack D
    I'm still waiting for them to cancel the last election. You swore to us that Obama would refuse to leave at the end of his term. Well, I guess a stopped clock is right twice a day so maybe there's still hope for your new prediction. SOMEDAY it may come true.
    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    Basically Shadowrun sans elves and magic.
  60. @O'Really
    one reason that flight attendants may be less affected than NYC subway workers: obesity appears to be a requirement for the latter job, while it tends to be discouraged in the former

    NYC subway workers: obesity appears to be a requirement for the latter job

    FWIW, being black also appears to be a requirement.

  61. @Jack D

    The researchers point to a fun Carnival party on Feb. 15 at which Heinsberg residents dressed up in their traditional outfits and did their traditional dances as the local super-spreader event.
     
    The solution is easy then - outlaw traditional outfits and traditional dances. I always hated lederhosen anyway.

    As of April 8, two of American Airlines’ 28,000 flight attendants were said to have died of COVID-19.

    Is two a big number? By way of comparison, at least 59 of the 71,000 employees of New York’s Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs subways, buses, and commuter rails, have died of coronavirus as of April 14.
     

    This likely has little to do with the occupational hazards of being a flight attendant vs. a bus driver and more to do with the fact that NYC in general is currently a hotbed of infection and transit workers are from the minority communities that have been especially hard hit, both due to their lack of social distancing in the hood and due to their higher rates of comorbidity. In Philly several transit employees have died but none of them were in public facing jobs - they were mechanics and the like.

    All 28,000 flight attendants walk up and down the close confines of aircraft while of the 71,000 transit employees, probably 80% or more don't interact directly with the public, at least not nearly as intimately as flight attendants. The subway conductors and motormen and ticket sellers are all sealed in their little booths, not to mention all the mechanics, etc. that you never see at all. Even the bus drivers now have little interaction since they stopped charging fares and have everyone board from the rear doors.


    To provide everyone in America with a fresh N95 mask every day would require 10 billion masks per month.
     
    It's completely unnecessary for the public to change masks daily. Masks can be sanitized thru a variety of ways and reused many times. Nor is it necessary to give everyone N95s. If the goal is to keep people from SPREADING rather than catching the virus then even simple cloth masks are good enough.

    I’m going to assume that MTA employees are as likely as MBTA employees to participate in communal dope smoking. Thus no interaction with the public is needed to spread COVID-19 within the work force. I wonder how they pass their urine tests?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    I'm sure they must have a system where they can substitute samples or something that is well known to all transit employees and maybe even aided and abetted by their union.
    , @Coemgen
    Stuck in the 70s: "dope" should be "medical marijuana."
  62. @Coemgen
    I'm going to assume that MTA employees are as likely as MBTA employees to participate in communal dope smoking. Thus no interaction with the public is needed to spread COVID-19 within the work force. I wonder how they pass their urine tests?

    I’m sure they must have a system where they can substitute samples or something that is well known to all transit employees and maybe even aided and abetted by their union.

  63. @Whiskey
    Steve so so naive. The plan among the media and governors is to bankrupt all businesses. Feds give the a bailout just like last time and they suspend election for a decade in a permanent emergency while being on camera every day.

    Every day. That is the emerging consensus plan.

    They don't want to give up power absolute power at that. They are deeply stupid. And don't want business to be a rival.

    This is the move by the Media and government class to seize all power and rule forever.

    I’m still waiting for them to cancel the last election. You swore to us that Obama would refuse to leave at the end of his term. Well, I guess a stopped clock is right twice a day so maybe there’s still hope for your new prediction. SOMEDAY it may come true.

    • Replies: @moshe
    Jack, the only good thing about antisemitism is that it'll get Whiskey too :)


    ∆∆∆∆∆∆∆


    [Whiskey, I'm kidding. You seem like someone forever stuck in the Terrible Twos when he has first discovered the concept of Power and Hates Hates Hates everyone who seems to have any of it and thinks the very very worst of them because in your own impotence you imagine What You Would Do if you had power. (Hint, as with sex, when you're not having it you like to imagine doing the abusive things done in porn. When you are having it however, you are happily surprised to find out that you're not actually a rapist. I should probably worry about wording that better but, eh. Anyway...), even though it's by Bill Maher, I highly recommend everyone watch this clip. Bill is right. Nobody is out there having as much fun as you think they're having. Not even Bill Clinton. Not even Donald Trump. Not even zionist masonic communist billionaire overlords...]


    https://youtu.be/WGp-omDD3V0


    ✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓


    Anyway, the ACTUAL only good thing about antisemitism will be the look on Ron Unz's face when his own golems come for him and he tries explaining to them thst he isn't a "Zionist" Jew...

    [Ron, I'm kidding.....But seriously, if you're game to have one of those video "quarantine chats" it'll be my pleasure. You're obviously a sincere and philanthropic guy and though I think you too are quite driven by an unnecessary envy (heck, aint we all??) you actually DO have oodles and oodles of power and, in the spheres that matter, you seem to be using it toward some dubious ends.]

    https://youtu.be/WGp-omDD3V0

  64. @Hypnotoad666
    OT: Apparently, Chris "Fredo" Cuomo, who is Covid-positive, has been roaming around and not following quarantine. He threatened some cyclist who pointed out that that's not ok.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/hes-scary-stupid-new-york-cyclist-singled-out-in-chris-cuomo-radio-rant-files-police-report

    I believe I’ve posted about Chris Cuomo in the past when he had the run in with the guy who called him Fredo. He was in my law school class at Fordham. Back in 1992 (our first year), Cuomo got into a fight at the local UWS bar that students would go to on Thursday nights.

    I looked up from my group when I heard a loud commotion and saw Chris being held back by 3 or 4 employees of the bar. He was shouting and swearing at some guy and lunging to try to get at him, while being held back. The guy (who I barely saw) was ushered out the door by the bouncer.

    I later was told that he worked at the bar the summer before law school as a bouncer and was friends with all the bouncers and other employees who worked at the bar. It’s one thing to get into a bar fight, but another to do so when you know the bouncer crew has your back. One might say that’s actually smart, but it’s also an unattractive quality. Definitely in the punching down category.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    Definitely in the punching down category.
     
    Some of his angst seemingly stems from a mid-life crisis triggered by his realization that he is just a meaningless cog in the fake news machine.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/media/492648-cnns-chris-cuomo-i-dont-like-what-i-do-professionally

    If I had to psychoanalyze, I'd guess that all the attention given to his brother lately has made Fredo feel small in comparison.

    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    He's an entitled bully.
  65. “One challenge with masks and movie theaters is that theaters make a lot of money on concessions and it’s tough to eat or drink while wearing a mask.”

    Excellent point. It’s also difficult to talk. Idiocracy talk, to be exact. Example: The actor on the screen draws a gun. The fellow in back of me says to his date, in a loud voice, “He has a gun.” This is why I stopped going to the movies a long time ago. But if masks reduce talking, I guess that’s good.

    • Replies: @captflee
    Back in the day, one had to carefully decide whether a genre of film was safe to be viewed at a Canal St. theatre, or whether one should trek out to Metairie in Jefferson Parish, then the land of that greatest of Chinese-Americans, Sheriff Harry Lee. Downtown it was not unheard of to have the audience respond in kind to onscreen gunplay. That said, I can recall at least one comedy improved by not so sotto voce audience commentary.

    For a while I thought that Idiocracy was a documentary sent back from the future as a warning, but I now see that this take is far too optimistic.
  66. One thing I haven’t seen discussed anywhere is: who are the people who are now contracting the virus despite the lockdown?

    Are any new cases from those who have in fact observed the rules? If so, it may be very easy to identify what event caused the infection. Many people simply don’t go out more than once or twice a week. It takes about 3-7 days to show symptoms, so it may well be possible to determine the exact event that caused the infection. This could be tremendously important in understanding how the virus spreads, and how it can be curtailed.

    Or are the new cases virtually all of people who need to be out and about, engaged in essential services? Or is it primarily between family members?

    We should be able to gather this critical information.

    • Replies: @epebble
    The virus can remain asymptomatic for much longer than 7-14 days and become symptomatic later; even 27 days. Many of the infected we are seeing now and will be seeing in future may have been infected before the social distancing and shutdowns became the norm.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-incubation/coronavirus-incubation-could-be-as-long-as-27-days-chinese-provincial-government-says-idUSKCN20G06W

    Then there is the possibility of relapse:

    https://time.com/5810454/coronavirus-immunity-reinfection/
  67. @Coemgen
    I'm going to assume that MTA employees are as likely as MBTA employees to participate in communal dope smoking. Thus no interaction with the public is needed to spread COVID-19 within the work force. I wonder how they pass their urine tests?

    Stuck in the 70s: “dope” should be “medical marijuana.”

  68. @Known Fact
    Drive-in movies could make a comeback

    https://www.artsy.net/artwork/o-winston-link-1103-hotshot-eastbound-leager-wv

    Let’s hope so. My friends own a Drive-In in Michigan. Myself and my kids help with maintenance, cleaning and concessions, and our Caitlyn Jenner look-alike governor has really f’ed up their business.

  69. @Kronos
    Just pull a Joe Biden and snip a few holes in the mask.

    https://babylonbee.com/img/articles/article-5930-1.jpg

    https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-cuts-holes-in-medical-mask-so-he-can-still-sniff-people/

    Will his expected lady veep pick pass his smell test?

    • Replies: @moshe
    ACTUAL laugh out loud!

    I just imagined a host of older middle-aged grandma contestants standing still as Old Joe pasued behind each of them, one by one, for a sniff as he rolled theur hair around and kissed the cracked make up on their necks.

    It should be televized either right before or after President Trump's Ms Preteen America.

    Let America have choice!

    LOL
  70. anonymous[402] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve,

    Next to masks what we really need is mass testing, not just for the virus but for antibodies as well. Tucker Carlson had a demo of some new rapid testing equipment waiting deployment on this week.

    In particular we need to identify folks who have essential jobs like medical staff, supermarket employees, food and delivery staff who are otherwise healthy and likely to have been in contact with Covid-19. If up to 80 percent of these have been asymptomatic and yet have now recovered, they still may have plenty of antibodies in their system.

    If anyone does know of somebody who has been identified as exposed to Covid-19 and recovered there is a critcal demand to collect their blood plasma and harvest the Covid-19 antibodies. This is another promising treatment that appears to be relatively low risk but high reward.

    Plasma transfusion shows promise for COVID-19 treatment, says China study
    https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/03/27/Plasma-transfusion-shows-promise-for-COVID-19-treatment-says-China-study/8931585334616/

    I was a regular plasma donor for years and became involved in it because I wanted to help others with immune deficiency diseases having known several. The $300 to $400 a month I earned for about 12-14 hrs (8 donations times aprox 1.5 hrs) time laying back listening to podcasts and audiobooks was not difficult or stressful. Getting paid to listen to Radio Derb, Jared Taylor and Paul Kersey, TDS, Fash the Nation…. could be worse. I have no idea what the going rate for Covid-19 antibody plasma donations will be. In most cases folks will simply want to help those that they themselves could have unknowingly infected.

    The problem is that the plasma collection industry is being hard hit and plasma is vitally needed for many other critical therapies.

    I don’t know if plasma could work as a vaccine substitute or only be effective in helping to jump start the immune systems of those infected but struggling to generate their own immune response.

    A major problem with the plasma donation industry is that most donation centers are in really bad parts of town. The facilities are often crowded. The one I went to was in south suburban Indianapolis was by industry standards quite nice and still its patrons were often sketchy to say the least. I moved to the another side of town and plasma center there is in a very bad neighborhood.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.

    Cochran thinks that plasma therapy is the single proposed therapy where it would be unlucky if it turned out not to work. In contrast, with every other single proposed therapy we'd be lucky if it did work. (That's not too pessimistic because a huge number of therapies have been proposed, so the odds of a few of them having some good effects are not a complete longshot, but we ought to be prepared for many of them that looked promising in the test tube to fail in people.)

    That said, large scale plasma therapy is a challenge to ramp up to, but it sounds likely to be better than nothing.

  71. @anonymous
    Besides mass testing what appears to be needed are low cost relatively low risk treatments. This so far seems to be the most promising option.

    Head lice drug ivermectin being studied as possible coronavirus treatment


    https://nypost.com/2020/04/14/head-lice-drug-being-studied-as-possible-coronavirus-treatment/

    And at Broward Health Medical Center in Florida, Dr. Jean-Jacques Rajter has already been using ivermectin in addition to hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin and zinc sulfate to treat his COVID-19 patients, according to NBC Miami.

    “If we get to these people early, and what I mean by that is if their oxygen requirements are less than 50 percent, I’ve had nearly a 100 percent response rate, they all improve, if they’re on more oxygen than that, then it becomes a little more varied, some people, they don’t respond anymore because they are too far advanced,” Rajter told the outlet.

    The doctor is in the process of publishing a scientific paper, but it could take weeks for the findings to be publicized.

    “But if I wait, every day that goes by is another day when lots and lots of people get very sick, go to ICU, many of them die and that could theoretically even be preventable and that’s why I thought it was so critically important to get this information out there,” he said.

    His wife, Dr. Juliana Cepelowicz-Rajter, also a pulmonologist, said: “More studies need to be conducted. We haven’t had any ill effects from it and it’s readily available, we have some patients who are pretty advanced, not yet intubated, and even those, in 12 hours, they showed a significant improvement.”

    Giardia is a bacteria that has properties of a parasite so can be treated with antihelminthics (dewormers) like ivermectin. If ivermectin is helping and this isn’t a hoax that would indicate a bacteria similar to giardia is involved.

    • Replies: @HA
    "If ivermectin is helping and this isn’t a hoax that would indicate a bacteria similar to giardia is involved."

    That's one way of putting it, I suppose. Covid-19 can trigger a cytokine storm, which increases one's vulnerability to bacterial pneumonia. If ivermectin can stave off that bacterial pneumonia, then it can boost survival rates, regardless of whether the bacterium responsible is similar to giardia.

    , @tr
    Giardia is a protozoa, a eukaryote (with nucleus and midocondria) like plants and animals, not a bacteria.
  72. @candid_observer
    One thing I haven't seen discussed anywhere is: who are the people who are now contracting the virus despite the lockdown?

    Are any new cases from those who have in fact observed the rules? If so, it may be very easy to identify what event caused the infection. Many people simply don't go out more than once or twice a week. It takes about 3-7 days to show symptoms, so it may well be possible to determine the exact event that caused the infection. This could be tremendously important in understanding how the virus spreads, and how it can be curtailed.

    Or are the new cases virtually all of people who need to be out and about, engaged in essential services? Or is it primarily between family members?

    We should be able to gather this critical information.

    The virus can remain asymptomatic for much longer than 7-14 days and become symptomatic later; even 27 days. Many of the infected we are seeing now and will be seeing in future may have been infected before the social distancing and shutdowns became the norm.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-incubation/coronavirus-incubation-could-be-as-long-as-27-days-chinese-provincial-government-says-idUSKCN20G06W

    Then there is the possibility of relapse:

    https://time.com/5810454/coronavirus-immunity-reinfection/

    • Replies: @candid_observer
    The distribution of time from infection to symptoms may be quite wide if you include all cases. But if the vast majority are within a much narrower range, it will be possible to draw very reasonable probabilistic inferences on the date and mode of infection over that range.

    The standard 14 day period for quarantine is mostly a very safe assumption about the maximum length -- safe enough that virtually every case will be caught in that period. A much shorter period may be more than adequate for statistical purposes.

    There are always going to be freak cases. Statistically they should have little import.

  73. Anon[330] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    I was thinking about Trump withdrawing WHO funding, which I predict will happen as soon as a southern border wall is completed. But I think withdrawing the funding would be a good idea. The U.S. contributes 15 percent of the budget. Salaries tend to be the biggest business expense, so you could fire 10 to 15 percent of the staff and be out of the red. Anyone who has worked in a larger organization knows that the bottom 15 percent of the staff only contribute maybe 1 percent of the productivity, and to do so require maybe 5 percent of the productivity of other staff to manage and babysit them. In a nonprofit setting, the least productive staff is probably even flakier. What an opportunity to throw out the dead wood! And the WHO could still complain about Trump, while becoming more effective. On the other hand, there may be protections in place to make it hard to fire people, and the dead wood may mostly be URMs from shithole countries.

    By the way, Dr. Fauci has a great idea about coronasports:

    https://www.axios.com/anthony-fauci-sports-baseball-coronavirus-771db025-6193-473e-8f0f-870cf8231b74.html

    Dr. Anthony Fauci joined Snapchat’s Peter Hamby on his show “Good Luck America,” and was asked about the possibility of abbreviated baseball, college football and NFL seasons this year.

    What he said: “[P]eople say, ‘Well you can’t play without spectators.’ Well, I think you’d probably get enough buy-in from people who are dying to see a baseball game. Particularly me. I’m living in Washington. We have the world champion Washington Nationals. You know, I want to see them play again.”

    Fauci said the best way to perhaps begin baseball on TV — say, around July 4 — would be to get players extensively tested and put them in hotels:

    Keep them very well surveilled … have them tested, like every week. By a gazillion tests. And make sure they don’t wind up infecting each other or their family. And just let them play the season out. I mean, that’s a really artificial way to do it, but when you think about it, it might be better than nothing.”

    He doesn’t mention Baseball Annies.

    • Replies: @Bill

    In a nonprofit setting, the least productive staff is probably even flakier.
     
    They are also in charge of deciding who gets fired.
  74. @Hail

    oddly enough, it really was companies and organizations who led the economic shutdown. No one told the NBA or MLB to shut down. Nearly every university and K-12 district in the nation shut down well before any state mandates. Ditto a lot of restaurants. And the movie theaters and production companies. Etc etc etc.
     
    These entities were not near the top of the chain in the international chain-reaction-of-overreactions. It was a media-induced panic, a feeding-frenzy of bad-data, Doomer fantasies, and opportunists of lots of stripes feeding one off the other. The entities you name followed the media's lead and reacted to general panic conditions.

    As a test of this, did any major entity, of NBA or MLB sort, order a shutdown in operations before the Toiler Paper Panics started cropping up? This could be checked; I am sure the answer is No.

    The 'pandemic' in final analysis may be remembered more as an info-pandemic than a viral-pandemic. A case of our technology being radically weaponized against us.

    “order a shutdown in operations before the Toiler Paper Panics started cropping up?”

    good observation. Remember Rudy Gobert, douchebag-Utah Jazz, was mocking the virus and licking everything on March 9

    • Replies: @anonymous jew
    Weren't his symptoms mild? Maybe his initial point was spot on.
  75. @John Achterhof
    Maybe a special mask with a plug-in to accommodate a straw and food slurry delivery system?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-kdRdzxdZQ

  76. @Roger Sweeny
    We don't need everyone to wear N95 masks. That's overkill when it comes to spreading the virus. Plain old surgical or cloth masks are enough.

    Maybe Roger, but I reckon that many people will be as selfish as I am and think:

    I don’t have no stinkin virus so there’s no way I’m wearing a stinkin mask as a Quarantinism Religious Ritual where “we all must do our (meaningless) part”.

    If it’s an N95 mask that PROTECTS ME TOO, then I would still rather not wear it but I appreciate that this popular religion is taking ME into account and not just demanding I do something “for the sake of…”, so I’m less likely to actively oppose it and more likely to go along with it (for a week or a month) and see whether it has an effect.

    Also, if there are punishments that go along with not wearing a mask I am more likely to proudly accept those punishments against wearing a purely “communistic” mask, than a more “socialistic” one that includes caring about my own health as a person, rather than just “doing my part” as a cog in the machine of what they call “the general good”.

  77. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    I kind of think movie theaters, and movies in general, are doomed, plague or no plague, because they are not the art form which captures the spirit of the new century, in the way that opera defined the nineteenth century and cinema, esp. cinema spectacle on grand, commonly-held public themes, captured the Geist of the 20th century. Woke cinema of the racial bean-counting variety where all the diversities are lined up in their correct pecking order and nobody does a racism, may be satisfying to the commissars and vinegar-drinking scolds, but artistically it satisfies no spiritual hunger (and since the Woke do not have souls, this is unsurprising).

    Maybe it will be gaming (maybe it already is). Artistically, video games now hold the same cultural position did that cinema had circa 1919: a popular and a huge moneymaker, but considered tacky and artistically shallow. Maybe gaming just needs to find its Keaton, Chaplin and Griffith to make it a serious-minded thing.

    For a while it seemed like long-form television might supplant movies artistically -- in fact it already has, but it's unclear whether it has staying power. Think of what digitization has done to everything:

    -- the novel is gone
    -- poetry is long gone
    -- the popular song is gone
    -- the "concept album" is gone
    -- magazines are gone
    -- the funny pages and the Sunday funnies are gone
    -- the sitcom is nearly gone
    -- movies are nearly gone

    The artistic forms of our present moment are the tweet, the Instagram post, the TikTok video, babbling about racism (across genres), and articles about don't-touch-my-hair.

    Who knows, maybe the sonnet will make a comeback and we won't see it coming.

    Graffiti tagging seems to be growing.

    Tagging sites which look damned hazardous to access appears to be common.

    No stats – just from keeping the eyes peeled.

  78. Anonymous[354] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    One challenge with masks and movie theaters is that theaters make a lot of money on concessions and it’s tough to eat or drink while wearing a mask. Maybe they could encourage people to eat their popcorn outside, before the movie.

    Or invent drinkable pop corn, or soda-pop-corn.

    You can surely use a straw under a mask.

  79. UK says:
    @UK
    I know a sobre-minded medical professional who recovered from it. They have been mentally drained even though they were not intubated or hospitalised. Then again, others have not. These things can take time.

    Having said that, it does seem like it may have some effects in the brain.

    The olfactory nerve is there and it is weirdly affected. Furthermore, the breathing difficulties “seem” like neurological ones to some extent. And the sometimes sudden death from heart issues likely lies there too.

    I cannot defend the above observations. They are not my own. Nonetheless, they are from a well-informed source. My language may be less precise than that which was used to convey these ideas to me too.

  80. @Travis
    Less patients need ventilators thanks to the Trump Tonic of hydroxychloroquine combined with Zinc and antibiotics. Doctors are quickly seeing the improvement of patients receiving the Trump Tonic and thus less need for ICU beds and patients are leaving the hospital faster than expected.

    People will feel confident to leave the house when the supply of hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine is adequate and pharmacies have it available to people who have a prescription for it. It is currently impossible to obtain even Tonic water in the state of New Jersey. Luckily I was able to obtain a supply of quercetin and zinc. But Zinc is very difficult to obtain now, back-ordered at Amazon. My next shipment will arrive in May. Walmart, Target and even the local liquor stores are out of Tonic water but still have plenty of gin in stock.

    In addition to securing supplies of Chloroquine , we need to have adequate supplies of masks for workers to feel confident going back to work. Sadly the United States is unable to manufacture enough masks and we do not have the ability to produce Chloroquine due to a shortage of the ingredients (which have been hoarded by Asian nations)

    The synthesis of hydroxychloroquine does not require any scarce ingredients. It is a fairly small organic molecule. Sufficient production does require industrial scale expertise and equipment which we have off-shored for thirty years.

    https://www.beilstein-journals.org/bjoc/articles/14/45

    • Replies: @anon
    Sufficient production does require industrial scale expertise and equipment which we have off-shored for thirty years.

    Not really. Here's news from about a month ago.

    https://www.dominionpost.com/2020/03/20/mylan-to-restart-production-of-possible-covid-19-drug-at-its-morgantown-plant/
  81. @Jim Don Bob
    Agree. It's called something like "pump death" where your brain is deprived of just enough oxygen to cause some minor damage. Bill Clinton is a good example.

    Pump head” is/was the term of art:

    For many years, in the surgeon’s locker room (which actually has much in common with other kinds of locker rooms), cardiac surgeons would mention to each other a phenomenon they often referred to as “pump head.” Pump head was a term used to describe impairment in a mental capacity they sometimes noticed in their patients following coronary artery bypass surgery. It got this name because the presumption was that cognitive impairment after bypass surgery was related to the use of the cardiopulmonary bypass pump during the procedure.

    For a long time, talk about this phenomenon never got far beyond the locker room.

    In 2001, a study from Duke University seemed to confirm what many doctors had long suspected, but had been reluctant to discuss openly.1 Namely, a substantial proportion of people after coronary artery bypass surgery subsequently experience measurable (but most often temporary) impairment in their mental capabilities. This study received a lot of publicity after its publication in the New England Journal of Medicine and caused a lot of concern among both doctors and their prospective patients. But the worry quickly faded away, and the general public really hasn’t heard much about it since.

    However, in the intervening years much more has been learned about mental changes after bypass surgery. For one thing, the phenomenon is real. For another, it is probably not related to the use of the bypass pump, but rather, is more likely related to the manipulation of the large blood vessels that is necessary during this type of surgery.

    Many regard it as bullshit since geezers tend to fog up on their own.

    • Thanks: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    While reading Tom Wolfe's "A Man in Full," you can see the point toward the end when he had a quintuple bypass: The first X pages are likely his best ever prose style, but the last 100 pages are markedly more slapdash.

    Wolfe explained that after the surgery, when he first recovered he developed manic-depression, first being too excited to sit and write and then too depressed. Finally, he decided to just get it over with and publish it after all these years.

    , @Jack D
    Anecdote is not the singular of data but, OTOH I have a client who had a quadruple bypass (the full, open chest monty where they split you open like a spatchcocked chicken) last year when he was in his late '50s (super athletic guy, not at all obese, watched his diet, etc. but strong family history of heart disease) and he made a full (and fast) recovery and I have seen zero evidence of pump head in him.

    But OTOH, my late FIL had bypass when he was in his early '80s and afterward he was never the same again mentally or physically. He also had (in my opinion) unnecessary prostate radiation even though he had a form of prostate cancer that was never going to kill him and suffered from lingering side effects which really destroyed his quality of life. In short, the doctors MIGHT have prolonged his life a little (he died at 89) but I think that if they had just left him alone he would have been a lot happier in his remaining years. He was from a generation that had undue respect for doctors who after all are just flawed mortals with boat payments to make and not Olympian gods.
  82. @The Alarmist

    That is off the list until vaccines arrive.
     
    Good luck with that. There's still no way of knowing if a viable vaccine can be made. Human trials of a NERS-CoV (the one from 2012) showed promising results ... as of mid 2019. But hey, you can volunteer to be a test subject if you are itching to get there.

    Even if a viable vaccine can be made, it is not clear whether any protection it might provide will be persistent for a meaningful period of time. The MERS-CoV trials suggested persistence at least as good as that observed in those actually infected. The last study I read on that suggested that 86% (6 out of 7 observed) showed antibodies at least 18 months on.

    Vaccination? There’s not even a reliable test for COVID-19 yet. The rate of false +/- is not good.

  83. @Steve Sailer
    Thanks. One thing I noticed was that this ER doctor who barely survived CV mentions that he still has physical and cognitive problems that he is going to have to overcome to go back to work. I wonder whether the cognitive problems stem from the disease or the treatment (ventilators tend not to be good for your brain)?

    Having thrice over the last six years survived prolonged intubations (2-3+ weeks), my beloved wife has emerged each time in pretty rough shape neurologically, disoriented, confused, and lacking finer motor skills. We’re talking not quite recognizing who I was, off a dozen years or so as to the date, and hundreds of miles as to locale, etc. With time and therapy things have mostly returned to as previous status, though I’d be lying were I to state that she is today the same cognitively as she was ante-morbum, though doubtless the same could be said of me, and I have been in a state of rude good health all the while.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.
    , @moshe
    I'm very sorry to hear about it. I hope that you and your wife make complete recoveries and don't require any unhappy medical attention again as you breeze through the next decades of your life happily and healthily.
  84. @Jack D
    I'm still waiting for them to cancel the last election. You swore to us that Obama would refuse to leave at the end of his term. Well, I guess a stopped clock is right twice a day so maybe there's still hope for your new prediction. SOMEDAY it may come true.

    Jack, the only good thing about antisemitism is that it’ll get Whiskey too 🙂

    ∆∆∆∆∆∆∆

    [Whiskey, I’m kidding. You seem like someone forever stuck in the Terrible Twos when he has first discovered the concept of Power and Hates Hates Hates everyone who seems to have any of it and thinks the very very worst of them because in your own impotence you imagine What You Would Do if you had power. (Hint, as with sex, when you’re not having it you like to imagine doing the abusive things done in porn. When you are having it however, you are happily surprised to find out that you’re not actually a rapist. I should probably worry about wording that better but, eh. Anyway…), even though it’s by Bill Maher, I highly recommend everyone watch this clip. Bill is right. Nobody is out there having as much fun as you think they’re having. Not even Bill Clinton. Not even Donald Trump. Not even zionist masonic communist billionaire overlords…]

    ✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓

    Anyway, the ACTUAL only good thing about antisemitism will be the look on Ron Unz’s face when his own golems come for him and he tries explaining to them thst he isn’t a “Zionist” Jew…

    [Ron, I’m kidding…..But seriously, if you’re game to have one of those video “quarantine chats” it’ll be my pleasure. You’re obviously a sincere and philanthropic guy and though I think you too are quite driven by an unnecessary envy (heck, aint we all??) you actually DO have oodles and oodles of power and, in the spheres that matter, you seem to be using it toward some dubious ends.]

  85. @Dacian Julien Soros

    That is off the list until vaccines arrive.
     
    I am sure the vaccine will arrive immediately after the SARS and the MERS vaccines. (If you are thick, that means "never".)

    I wonder if epidemics serve as rallying points for Americans, just like crusades were for Europe. There's so much fervor, so much misdirected hope.

    I only get this feeling: http://www.legorafi.fr/2020/03/12/coronavirus-coronavirus-coronavirus-coronavirus-coronavirus/

    I am sure the vaccine will arrive immediately after the SARS and the MERS vaccines. (If you are thick, that means “never”.)

    I suspect we’re putting a Hell of a lot more resources into developing a COVID-19 vaccine, but your observation is never-the-less pretty darn depressing. Oh boy.

  86. How weird. A friend of mine from college is a doctor at EvergreenHealth. He played in the Rose Bowl in college… but for the University of Washington a few years before this guy. Who knew you’d have to be more specific than “that really tall doctor with the Rose Bowl ring”?

  87. @John Achterhof
    Maybe a special mask with a plug-in to accommodate a straw and food slurry delivery system?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-kdRdzxdZQ

    The CBRD masks which I and my crew donned in a Kuwaiti port in 2003 to protect ourselves from a purported Scud attack had a plug for drinking out of a similarly equipped canteen. The ensemble (MOPP gear) one wears to such soirees tends toward the stifling, so one quickly gets rather parched.

    But, yeah, John, up the diameter and that popcorn and Cocola slurry becomes possible. John saves Hollywood!

    • Thanks: John Achterhof
  88. @Whiskey
    Steve so so naive. The plan among the media and governors is to bankrupt all businesses. Feds give the a bailout just like last time and they suspend election for a decade in a permanent emergency while being on camera every day.

    Every day. That is the emerging consensus plan.

    They don't want to give up power absolute power at that. They are deeply stupid. And don't want business to be a rival.

    This is the move by the Media and government class to seize all power and rule forever.

    Basically Shadowrun sans elves and magic.

  89. That (oxygen and positioning the patient on the side) often works, and it’s vastly less work for the hospital staff than monitoring a patient on a ventilator.

    Let’s review:
    1. 80% of intubated patient die.
    2. Proning seems to work.
    3. It’s less complicated and less expensive.

    All of a sudden, this death sentence for people over sixty becomes merely a life altering escapade. There is hope for this country. Bring on the plague; herd immunity is ready.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I dunno, are death rates really going down or are people now dying with less stress on the hospitals?

    An important question.

  90. @Travis
    Less patients need ventilators thanks to the Trump Tonic of hydroxychloroquine combined with Zinc and antibiotics. Doctors are quickly seeing the improvement of patients receiving the Trump Tonic and thus less need for ICU beds and patients are leaving the hospital faster than expected.

    People will feel confident to leave the house when the supply of hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine is adequate and pharmacies have it available to people who have a prescription for it. It is currently impossible to obtain even Tonic water in the state of New Jersey. Luckily I was able to obtain a supply of quercetin and zinc. But Zinc is very difficult to obtain now, back-ordered at Amazon. My next shipment will arrive in May. Walmart, Target and even the local liquor stores are out of Tonic water but still have plenty of gin in stock.

    In addition to securing supplies of Chloroquine , we need to have adequate supplies of masks for workers to feel confident going back to work. Sadly the United States is unable to manufacture enough masks and we do not have the ability to produce Chloroquine due to a shortage of the ingredients (which have been hoarded by Asian nations)

    We bought Tonic water at my local Target… and started drinking a liter each day as a prophylactic with zinc , quercetin and vitamin D

    In this way I obtain 83 mg of quinine each day…will double the dose if any symptoms develop.

  91. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @UK
    Both Italy and the US were traditionally far quicker to intubate than the UK, I am informed. Possibly because UK experts consider positive pressure in the lungs to be something to be used much more sparingly or possibly because you guys have the resources and so thought you might as well use them.

    Supposedly even the UK is further limiting ventilator use in Chinavirus cases. Indeed, it is "weird" to not be going along with normal protocols and instead doing what "seems like nothing." Yet preliminary evidence suggests that it is better.

    stop saying and writing intubate. not a thing

    • LOL: Bill
    • Replies: @UK
    It certainly seems like a thing. Doctors use it. Dictionaries use it. The Lancet uses it.

    New verbs are made from nouns all of the time. What would you prefer people say? "Conduct intubation"? I'll stick with intubate, thanks.
    , @anon
    not a thing

    You saying no one snacks whilst riding in the London Underground? Tosh, sir! Stuff and nonsense!
  92. @James Speaks

    That (oxygen and positioning the patient on the side) often works, and it’s vastly less work for the hospital staff than monitoring a patient on a ventilator.
     
    Let's review:
    1. 80% of intubated patient die.
    2. Proning seems to work.
    3. It's less complicated and less expensive.

    All of a sudden, this death sentence for people over sixty becomes merely a life altering escapade. There is hope for this country. Bring on the plague; herd immunity is ready.

    I dunno, are death rates really going down or are people now dying with less stress on the hospitals?

    An important question.

    • Agree: James Speaks
  93. @captflee
    Having thrice over the last six years survived prolonged intubations (2-3+ weeks), my beloved wife has emerged each time in pretty rough shape neurologically, disoriented, confused, and lacking finer motor skills. We're talking not quite recognizing who I was, off a dozen years or so as to the date, and hundreds of miles as to locale, etc. With time and therapy things have mostly returned to as previous status, though I'd be lying were I to state that she is today the same cognitively as she was ante-morbum, though doubtless the same could be said of me, and I have been in a state of rude good health all the while.

    Thanks.

  94. @Jack Armstrong
    "Pump head" is/was the term of art:

    For many years, in the surgeon’s locker room (which actually has much in common with other kinds of locker rooms), cardiac surgeons would mention to each other a phenomenon they often referred to as “pump head.” Pump head was a term used to describe impairment in a mental capacity they sometimes noticed in their patients following coronary artery bypass surgery. It got this name because the presumption was that cognitive impairment after bypass surgery was related to the use of the cardiopulmonary bypass pump during the procedure.

    For a long time, talk about this phenomenon never got far beyond the locker room.

    In 2001, a study from Duke University seemed to confirm what many doctors had long suspected, but had been reluctant to discuss openly.1 Namely, a substantial proportion of people after coronary artery bypass surgery subsequently experience measurable (but most often temporary) impairment in their mental capabilities. This study received a lot of publicity after its publication in the New England Journal of Medicine and caused a lot of concern among both doctors and their prospective patients. But the worry quickly faded away, and the general public really hasn’t heard much about it since.

    However, in the intervening years much more has been learned about mental changes after bypass surgery. For one thing, the phenomenon is real. For another, it is probably not related to the use of the bypass pump, but rather, is more likely related to the manipulation of the large blood vessels that is necessary during this type of surgery.
     
    Many regard it as bullshit since geezers tend to fog up on their own.

    While reading Tom Wolfe’s “A Man in Full,” you can see the point toward the end when he had a quintuple bypass: The first X pages are likely his best ever prose style, but the last 100 pages are markedly more slapdash.

    Wolfe explained that after the surgery, when he first recovered he developed manic-depression, first being too excited to sit and write and then too depressed. Finally, he decided to just get it over with and publish it after all these years.

    • Thanks: vhrm
    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    My Life in Pills - Freddie DeBoer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzGdG7ORyn0
  95. anonymous[402] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    That is off the list until vaccines arrive.
     
    Good luck with that. There's still no way of knowing if a viable vaccine can be made. Human trials of a NERS-CoV (the one from 2012) showed promising results ... as of mid 2019. But hey, you can volunteer to be a test subject if you are itching to get there.

    Even if a viable vaccine can be made, it is not clear whether any protection it might provide will be persistent for a meaningful period of time. The MERS-CoV trials suggested persistence at least as good as that observed in those actually infected. The last study I read on that suggested that 86% (6 out of 7 observed) showed antibodies at least 18 months on.

    Covid-19 vaccine virus in 18 months??? Sorry but this boomer will focus on keeping his immune system in top shape and rolling his own dice.

    The weak persistence from any potential Covid-19 vaccine is one issue.

    But I think there are other reasons that there have been problems developing SARS and Corona virus vaccines for over a decade that are well known but not being talked about enough,

    This is from Robert Kennedy Jr’s and anti-big Pharma outfit Childrens Health Defense childrenshealthdefense.org

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=178&v=RzFP4yzZzII&feature=emb_logo

    You can discount it, but the video raises lots of question of whether or not any Corona virus vaccine will face the same hurdles that have confronted developing vaccines for dengue fever for decades. There is a trade off in attempting to immunize in regards to developing good and persistent “neutralizing” antibodies at the expense of bad and more persistent “binding” antibodies. Binding antibodies can actually weaken the immune system if actually infected or reinfected at a later date with a different strain and possibly trigger long term autoimmune side effects as well.

    And what seems to be so deadly about Covid-19 is that the body’s innate inflammatory autoimmune response is often so much stronger than its more precise adaptive immune system. Interestingly Hydrochloroquine and zync are used for both malaria and the autoimmune disease lupus.

    That maybe why collecting plasma from recently recovered Covid-19 patients seems to be of such interest. You are potentially transmitting a higher ratio of good neutralizing antibodies for just the right strain of the virus in your area with a lower potential long term downside risk.

    I am in no way an anti-vaccination type but I have major issues with big pharma. Guess it is because I struggled for years with bad nutritional advice, “food pyramid” until I went hardcore Keto-IF. I have not had a cold or bout of the flu in years.

    Check out this on Bill Gates and Big Pharma.

    Gates’ Globalist Vaccine Agenda: A Win-Win for Pharma and Mandatory Vaccination
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/government-corruption/gates-globalist-vaccine-agenda-a-win-win-for-pharma-and-mandatory-vaccination/

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    I’m not an anti-vaxxer per se, but I’ve had enough negative experiences with meds and vaccines to be wary of welcoming any new vaccine. I’m with you on the Keto, much to the horror of my doctor, who praises me on my general health and all of my blood values, except the early days when my cholesterol was relatively high.
  96. I’m confused by your numbers.
    1000 or there abouts hospitalized with the coronavirus with 18% in intensive care, and 15% on ventilators.
    By your arithmetic the 15% is not a subset of the 18%, but rather a stand alone % calculated from the universe of the hospitalized.
    Is this correct?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Did I misinterpret it? I assumed out of 1059 hospitalized that 18% were in ICU (about 190 individuals) and 15% of the 1059 are on ventilators (about 160 individuals). Was I supposed to read, in contrast, that the number on ventilators are 15% of 18% of 1059? About 30 individuals?

    Either way, it's a pretty small percentage of 10 million residents of L.A. County.

  97. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Instead of Flatten the Curve, how about Heighten the Serve?

    By ‘serve’, I mean medical service.

    If there is a pandemic looming, the government goes into Wartime Mode and vastly increases medical staff and services to treat the disease. The governments prepares for rapid rise in the Curve.

    And then, everyone(except the old and frail) is urged to go out in the streets and hug and touch everyone so the virus or whatever will spread like wildfire. Let each neighborhood have a germ-spreading block party. Open all the beaches, movie theaters, and rock concerts. At rock concerts, the stars urge everyone to shake hands and rub their faces. Put posters with message “Be warm and pass the Germ”.

    Now, this will surely lead to rapid increase of the afflicted but because the SERVE has been HEIGHTENED and the state is ready to handle the hike in patients, we’ll get over it much sooner.

    This way, government plays a big role but the economy doesn’t have to be shut down.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    One problem is that not only don't we have a good estimate of Infection Fatality Rate (e.g, over the last month or so, the Diamond Princess fatalities have crept up from 7 to 12), we are really flying blind on the rate of Survived But Hosed: how many people who survive the disease will be in much worse shape for the rest of their lives? For example, is this 44 year old ex-college football player ER doc in Seattle going to be able to come back 100% or is he going to have to downgrade to a job that's less cognitively demanding? Is Boris Johnson ever again going to be the mastermind politician who, to the surprise of a huge number of skeptics, somehow threaded the needle and solved Brexit?
    , @Satanovic
    Some common sense here. Would definitely work far better than any other plan, and infinitely better than what we have now. Expanding herd immunity is the only thing that will work.
  98. @Partic
    I'm confused by your numbers.
    1000 or there abouts hospitalized with the coronavirus with 18% in intensive care, and 15% on ventilators.
    By your arithmetic the 15% is not a subset of the 18%, but rather a stand alone % calculated from the universe of the hospitalized.
    Is this correct?

    Did I misinterpret it? I assumed out of 1059 hospitalized that 18% were in ICU (about 190 individuals) and 15% of the 1059 are on ventilators (about 160 individuals). Was I supposed to read, in contrast, that the number on ventilators are 15% of 18% of 1059? About 30 individuals?

    Either way, it’s a pretty small percentage of 10 million residents of L.A. County.

  99. @Travis
    Less patients need ventilators thanks to the Trump Tonic of hydroxychloroquine combined with Zinc and antibiotics. Doctors are quickly seeing the improvement of patients receiving the Trump Tonic and thus less need for ICU beds and patients are leaving the hospital faster than expected.

    People will feel confident to leave the house when the supply of hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine is adequate and pharmacies have it available to people who have a prescription for it. It is currently impossible to obtain even Tonic water in the state of New Jersey. Luckily I was able to obtain a supply of quercetin and zinc. But Zinc is very difficult to obtain now, back-ordered at Amazon. My next shipment will arrive in May. Walmart, Target and even the local liquor stores are out of Tonic water but still have plenty of gin in stock.

    In addition to securing supplies of Chloroquine , we need to have adequate supplies of masks for workers to feel confident going back to work. Sadly the United States is unable to manufacture enough masks and we do not have the ability to produce Chloroquine due to a shortage of the ingredients (which have been hoarded by Asian nations)

    Zinc is very difficult to obtain now, back-ordered at Amazon

    Post 1982 penny is 97.5% zinc; just file or sandpaper off the copper film and you have pure metallic zinc. It can be easily compounded in lemon juice (citric acid) or Coke/Pepsi (phosphoric acid).

    • Replies: @moshe
    Please clarify for your readers how serious or crazy you are.

    You don't want people swallowing old filed currency thanks to a panic.
    , @anon
    One A Day vitamins have 24 mg of zinc.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Now that's some generic medicine, to be had for pennies on the dollar - the dollar bills will provide you some much needed fiber, especially if you are scared of buying any produce.

    After the next round of money printing, we may get more fiber from 10 dollar bills than from the red cabbage that they can purchase. It's called cabbage arbitrage or cabitage for short.
  100. @Anonymous
    Instead of Flatten the Curve, how about Heighten the Serve?

    By 'serve', I mean medical service.

    If there is a pandemic looming, the government goes into Wartime Mode and vastly increases medical staff and services to treat the disease. The governments prepares for rapid rise in the Curve.

    And then, everyone(except the old and frail) is urged to go out in the streets and hug and touch everyone so the virus or whatever will spread like wildfire. Let each neighborhood have a germ-spreading block party. Open all the beaches, movie theaters, and rock concerts. At rock concerts, the stars urge everyone to shake hands and rub their faces. Put posters with message "Be warm and pass the Germ".

    Now, this will surely lead to rapid increase of the afflicted but because the SERVE has been HEIGHTENED and the state is ready to handle the hike in patients, we'll get over it much sooner.

    This way, government plays a big role but the economy doesn't have to be shut down.

    One problem is that not only don’t we have a good estimate of Infection Fatality Rate (e.g, over the last month or so, the Diamond Princess fatalities have crept up from 7 to 12), we are really flying blind on the rate of Survived But Hosed: how many people who survive the disease will be in much worse shape for the rest of their lives? For example, is this 44 year old ex-college football player ER doc in Seattle going to be able to come back 100% or is he going to have to downgrade to a job that’s less cognitively demanding? Is Boris Johnson ever again going to be the mastermind politician who, to the surprise of a huge number of skeptics, somehow threaded the needle and solved Brexit?

  101. @Barnard
    Couldn't part of the reason be that the number of flights is way down from normal? The number of flight attendants working and the number of flight each of them are working has to be way down. I am also wondering if there are more asymptomatic flight attendants than there are people in other professions. Doing that job for years would constantly expose someone to germs. They may have a stronger immunity response to it.

    Doing that job for years would constantly expose someone to germs. They may have a stronger immunity response to it.

    My old job entailed frequently meeting arrivals from Tokyo, Amsterdam, and London flights and hence, by transfer, much of Asia and Africa. At physicals and other doctor’s appointments, I was asked if I’d been exposed to any communicable diseases. I’d reply, are you kidding? I’ve been exposed to almost everything the world has to offer!

    Other than a week of laryngitis (cured with Purell; h/t Steve), I never got sick, and was quite flu-resistant all those years. But after 18 months of retirement to relative rural isolation, I got slammed with the worst illness of my life in mid-February. (Kinda early for corona, but perhaps that’s what it was.)

    Is the immune system like a muscle, which can atrophy from lack of use?

    • Replies: @Cortes
    What a wonderful closing question!

    It’s a shame that you haven’t had a reply from anyone with expertise in immunology and related fields. (Perhaps they’re all scrambling to write their bids for funding to investigate?)

    Thanks.
  102. @anonymous
    Steve,

    Next to masks what we really need is mass testing, not just for the virus but for antibodies as well. Tucker Carlson had a demo of some new rapid testing equipment waiting deployment on this week.

    In particular we need to identify folks who have essential jobs like medical staff, supermarket employees, food and delivery staff who are otherwise healthy and likely to have been in contact with Covid-19. If up to 80 percent of these have been asymptomatic and yet have now recovered, they still may have plenty of antibodies in their system.

    If anyone does know of somebody who has been identified as exposed to Covid-19 and recovered there is a critcal demand to collect their blood plasma and harvest the Covid-19 antibodies. This is another promising treatment that appears to be relatively low risk but high reward.

    Plasma transfusion shows promise for COVID-19 treatment, says China study
    https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/03/27/Plasma-transfusion-shows-promise-for-COVID-19-treatment-says-China-study/8931585334616/

    I was a regular plasma donor for years and became involved in it because I wanted to help others with immune deficiency diseases having known several. The $300 to $400 a month I earned for about 12-14 hrs (8 donations times aprox 1.5 hrs) time laying back listening to podcasts and audiobooks was not difficult or stressful. Getting paid to listen to Radio Derb, Jared Taylor and Paul Kersey, TDS, Fash the Nation.... could be worse. I have no idea what the going rate for Covid-19 antibody plasma donations will be. In most cases folks will simply want to help those that they themselves could have unknowingly infected.

    The problem is that the plasma collection industry is being hard hit and plasma is vitally needed for many other critical therapies.

    I don't know if plasma could work as a vaccine substitute or only be effective in helping to jump start the immune systems of those infected but struggling to generate their own immune response.

    A major problem with the plasma donation industry is that most donation centers are in really bad parts of town. The facilities are often crowded. The one I went to was in south suburban Indianapolis was by industry standards quite nice and still its patrons were often sketchy to say the least. I moved to the another side of town and plasma center there is in a very bad neighborhood.

    Thanks.

    Cochran thinks that plasma therapy is the single proposed therapy where it would be unlucky if it turned out not to work. In contrast, with every other single proposed therapy we’d be lucky if it did work. (That’s not too pessimistic because a huge number of therapies have been proposed, so the odds of a few of them having some good effects are not a complete longshot, but we ought to be prepared for many of them that looked promising in the test tube to fail in people.)

    That said, large scale plasma therapy is a challenge to ramp up to, but it sounds likely to be better than nothing.

  103. @Ron Mexico
    "order a shutdown in operations before the Toiler Paper Panics started cropping up?"

    good observation. Remember Rudy Gobert, douchebag-Utah Jazz, was mocking the virus and licking everything on March 9

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYC6oQIAzbI

    Weren’t his symptoms mild? Maybe his initial point was spot on.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    Perhaps, but he didn't help with the panic thing
  104. @RichardTaylor
    Did we flatten the curve? Or was this going to happen anyway, except for a few hot spots?

    Doesn't look like the outcomes in Sweden and Germany are all that different. Did Latin America or Africa do much of anything?

    Latin America or Africa

    Nothing happened there; nothing to flatten. Largest African deaths are in Algeria: 336. Latin America and Africa may have an order of magnitude higher traffic fatalities.

    • Replies: @moshe
    Panic is far more viral than any disease.

    Last night I spoke to someone in Algeria who can't sleep thabks to his terror that the virus is coming to get him.

    As an aside, I met him the Rave app, where people can watch movies together and talk about it. It's not as awesome as it sounds but it wilo definitely be very appreciated by many people here.

    Does anyone else have a favorite Android app where groups of friends or online aquaintances, like us, can get together to chat and have fun?

    So far, Rave seems to have promise. If anyone sets up a Zoom or Rave for regular istevers (of the less paranoid variety), let us know. Could be a good time.
  105. HA says:
    @miss marple
    Giardia is a bacteria that has properties of a parasite so can be treated with antihelminthics (dewormers) like ivermectin. If ivermectin is helping and this isn't a hoax that would indicate a bacteria similar to giardia is involved.

    “If ivermectin is helping and this isn’t a hoax that would indicate a bacteria similar to giardia is involved.”

    That’s one way of putting it, I suppose. Covid-19 can trigger a cytokine storm, which increases one’s vulnerability to bacterial pneumonia. If ivermectin can stave off that bacterial pneumonia, then it can boost survival rates, regardless of whether the bacterium responsible is similar to giardia.

  106. @miss marple
    Giardia is a bacteria that has properties of a parasite so can be treated with antihelminthics (dewormers) like ivermectin. If ivermectin is helping and this isn't a hoax that would indicate a bacteria similar to giardia is involved.

    Giardia is a protozoa, a eukaryote (with nucleus and midocondria) like plants and animals, not a bacteria.

  107. @Ron Mexico
    Will his expected lady veep pick pass his smell test?

    ACTUAL laugh out loud!

    I just imagined a host of older middle-aged grandma contestants standing still as Old Joe pasued behind each of them, one by one, for a sniff as he rolled theur hair around and kissed the cracked make up on their necks.

    It should be televized either right before or after President Trump’s Ms Preteen America.

    Let America have choice!

    LOL

    • LOL: Kronos
    • Replies: @Kronos
    I actually thought of this.

    https://youtu.be/wzC1Dn0gqgE
  108. The good news is that we actually have flattened the curve. Even in New York City, few hospitals are overwhelmed, and in much of the country, such as California, the situation is better than epidemiologists were predicting only a month ago.

    Success has a thousand fathers; failure is an orphan. Watch everyone take credit.

    Pres. Trump looks like a moderate, avoiding the (experts’!) extremes of it’ll-blow-over and mass-death-is at-the-doorstep.

    …NYC doctors are much more reluctant to intubate than they were a month ago.

    As my German Catholic ancestors in the city would have patiently explained, mass tubation can lead to blindness.

    • Replies: @unit472
    Actually the medical maladies linked to masturbation were the work of a Dr. Kellogg ( yes, of Battle Creek, Michigan). He was a nutrition fanatic as well as being responsible for generations of guilt wracked teenagers. His seminal book, Plain Facts for Both Sexes, warned parents that dwarfism, weak eyesight and idiocy were the consequences of 'self abuse'. To prevent this his suggested remedies for parents started out with wrapping the child's waist with a towel with the knot tied in the back to encourage sleeping on the stomach. In more severe cases tying a board to a child's back would make it even more difficult for a child to lie on his back. Ultimately, a chicken wire cage could be fashioned around the young man's genitalia that would allow for urination but prevent physical contact. Females could be dissuaded by, among other treatments, a borax douche!
  109. @captflee
    Having thrice over the last six years survived prolonged intubations (2-3+ weeks), my beloved wife has emerged each time in pretty rough shape neurologically, disoriented, confused, and lacking finer motor skills. We're talking not quite recognizing who I was, off a dozen years or so as to the date, and hundreds of miles as to locale, etc. With time and therapy things have mostly returned to as previous status, though I'd be lying were I to state that she is today the same cognitively as she was ante-morbum, though doubtless the same could be said of me, and I have been in a state of rude good health all the while.

    I’m very sorry to hear about it. I hope that you and your wife make complete recoveries and don’t require any unhappy medical attention again as you breeze through the next decades of your life happily and healthily.

    • Replies: @captflee
    Moshe,

    Thank you for your kindness, sir.
  110. It looks like the UK may have turned the corner too, at least as far as hospital deaths are concerned. Only a few dozen beds are in use at the 2,000-bed hospital set up by the military.

    Now if they can protect the care homes (they promised testing for all the staff, but talk is the one thing there’s no shortage of) we might get some cricket in yet.*

    Meanwhile in Europe Germany is thinking of easing up on lockdown

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/15/angela-merkel-announces-plans-reopen-schools-shops-germany-coronavirus-lockdown

    and Sweden, worried by a sudden jump in deaths, may think of tightening up

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/15/sweden-coronavirus-death-toll-reaches-1000

    * Although I fear for the weather. In the UK it rained almost non-stop between early October and mid-March, around the time when schools were shut and the first deaths occurred. Since then it’s been glorious spring sunshine almost every day. My worry is that the moment lockdown ends and we can go to the beach, it’ll start raining again.

  111. @anon

    Zinc is very difficult to obtain now, back-ordered at Amazon
     
    Post 1982 penny is 97.5% zinc; just file or sandpaper off the copper film and you have pure metallic zinc. It can be easily compounded in lemon juice (citric acid) or Coke/Pepsi (phosphoric acid).

    Please clarify for your readers how serious or crazy you are.

    You don’t want people swallowing old filed currency thanks to a panic.

    • Replies: @anon
    I know nothing about the treatment; my comment was just about how to obtain elemental zinc. That is an easy process starting from recent pennies.

    BTW, consuming metallic Zinc is not recommended, Zinc may react with gastric juices to become Zinc Chloride and cause ulcers.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-12-01-9812010102-story.html
  112. @Redman
    I believe I've posted about Chris Cuomo in the past when he had the run in with the guy who called him Fredo. He was in my law school class at Fordham. Back in 1992 (our first year), Cuomo got into a fight at the local UWS bar that students would go to on Thursday nights.

    I looked up from my group when I heard a loud commotion and saw Chris being held back by 3 or 4 employees of the bar. He was shouting and swearing at some guy and lunging to try to get at him, while being held back. The guy (who I barely saw) was ushered out the door by the bouncer.

    I later was told that he worked at the bar the summer before law school as a bouncer and was friends with all the bouncers and other employees who worked at the bar. It's one thing to get into a bar fight, but another to do so when you know the bouncer crew has your back. One might say that's actually smart, but it's also an unattractive quality. Definitely in the punching down category.

    Definitely in the punching down category.

    Some of his angst seemingly stems from a mid-life crisis triggered by his realization that he is just a meaningless cog in the fake news machine.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/media/492648-cnns-chris-cuomo-i-dont-like-what-i-do-professionally

    If I had to psychoanalyze, I’d guess that all the attention given to his brother lately has made Fredo feel small in comparison.

  113. @Peter Akuleyev
    Some people would like most businesses to go broke. Then they won’t have those evil business owners fighting their plans.

    No, then “some people” can buy those businesses at firesale prices. The people who have the most to gain from the crisis are hedge fund managers and family offices. They have been sitting on billions of dollars of dry powder. Lately asset prices were climbing too high to generate decent returns. The current crisis is the opportunity of the century. Weak businesses and middle class home owners will lose their equity and a small group of people with capital will buy those assets and benefit tremendously. This is why there is a lot of pressure from the donor class on Trump to “stay the course” even if this ends up being electorally disastrous for him personally. Maybe not a coincidence that consensus for a shutdown coalesced about the time it became clear Bernie was done.

    Nobody at a hedge fund gives a damn about a local business like the local hair cuttery, restaurant or auto repair shop. They’ll be quite happy to help comrade Xi buy up stock in GM, Carnival Cruise Lines and a bunch of NYSE, NASDQ listed ,and other such companies. “The current crisis is…” created by a massive information opertion targeted directly at the very gullible American citizen, much to the delight of America’s left, America’s enemies and all of Trump’s.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    Nobody at a hedge fund gives a damn about a local business like the local hair cuttery, restaurant or auto repair shop.

    They do give a damn if there’s real estate involved. That’s how funds made a killing in 2008 - rolling up thousands of defaulted properties and bringing “efficiencies” into the property management side. This time will be even more severe.
  114. @Hail

    oddly enough, it really was companies and organizations who led the economic shutdown. No one told the NBA or MLB to shut down. Nearly every university and K-12 district in the nation shut down well before any state mandates. Ditto a lot of restaurants. And the movie theaters and production companies. Etc etc etc.
     
    These entities were not near the top of the chain in the international chain-reaction-of-overreactions. It was a media-induced panic, a feeding-frenzy of bad-data, Doomer fantasies, and opportunists of lots of stripes feeding one off the other. The entities you name followed the media's lead and reacted to general panic conditions.

    As a test of this, did any major entity, of NBA or MLB sort, order a shutdown in operations before the Toiler Paper Panics started cropping up? This could be checked; I am sure the answer is No.

    The 'pandemic' in final analysis may be remembered more as an info-pandemic than a viral-pandemic. A case of our technology being radically weaponized against us.

    You’re correct. Even in flyover country, wipes/sanitizer/TP were all already sold out at the beginning of the week that all of the sports shut down at the end of (and into the following week).

    • Replies: @Hail
    To the extent we live in a "media-run state," I'd offer these sage words:

    The supreme function of statesmanship is to provide against preventable evils. In seeking to do so, it encounters obstacles which are deeply rooted in human nature...
    — Enoch Powell, 1968.

    (But he could as well have been talking about the Coronavirus response of 2020.)

    The media is guilty.

  115. @Elli
    The synthesis of hydroxychloroquine does not require any scarce ingredients. It is a fairly small organic molecule. Sufficient production does require industrial scale expertise and equipment which we have off-shored for thirty years.

    https://www.beilstein-journals.org/bjoc/articles/14/45

    Sufficient production does require industrial scale expertise and equipment which we have off-shored for thirty years.

    Not really. Here’s news from about a month ago.

    https://www.dominionpost.com/2020/03/20/mylan-to-restart-production-of-possible-covid-19-drug-at-its-morgantown-plant/

  116. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @RichardTaylor
    Did we flatten the curve? Or was this going to happen anyway, except for a few hot spots?

    Doesn't look like the outcomes in Sweden and Germany are all that different. Did Latin America or Africa do much of anything?

    Doesn’t look like the outcomes in Sweden and Germany are all that different. Did Latin America or Africa do much of anything?

    Is there a way to make virus fight virus?

    In the 80s, there was East Coast rappers and West Coast rappers and they whupped each other.

    Is there a way to tweak the viruses so that they fight it out among themselves? It’s like Godzilla was made to fight King Kong. Make monster fight monster.

    That’d be worth several Nobel prizes.

  117. @Jack Armstrong
    "Pump head" is/was the term of art:

    For many years, in the surgeon’s locker room (which actually has much in common with other kinds of locker rooms), cardiac surgeons would mention to each other a phenomenon they often referred to as “pump head.” Pump head was a term used to describe impairment in a mental capacity they sometimes noticed in their patients following coronary artery bypass surgery. It got this name because the presumption was that cognitive impairment after bypass surgery was related to the use of the cardiopulmonary bypass pump during the procedure.

    For a long time, talk about this phenomenon never got far beyond the locker room.

    In 2001, a study from Duke University seemed to confirm what many doctors had long suspected, but had been reluctant to discuss openly.1 Namely, a substantial proportion of people after coronary artery bypass surgery subsequently experience measurable (but most often temporary) impairment in their mental capabilities. This study received a lot of publicity after its publication in the New England Journal of Medicine and caused a lot of concern among both doctors and their prospective patients. But the worry quickly faded away, and the general public really hasn’t heard much about it since.

    However, in the intervening years much more has been learned about mental changes after bypass surgery. For one thing, the phenomenon is real. For another, it is probably not related to the use of the bypass pump, but rather, is more likely related to the manipulation of the large blood vessels that is necessary during this type of surgery.
     
    Many regard it as bullshit since geezers tend to fog up on their own.

    Anecdote is not the singular of data but, OTOH I have a client who had a quadruple bypass (the full, open chest monty where they split you open like a spatchcocked chicken) last year when he was in his late ’50s (super athletic guy, not at all obese, watched his diet, etc. but strong family history of heart disease) and he made a full (and fast) recovery and I have seen zero evidence of pump head in him.

    But OTOH, my late FIL had bypass when he was in his early ’80s and afterward he was never the same again mentally or physically. He also had (in my opinion) unnecessary prostate radiation even though he had a form of prostate cancer that was never going to kill him and suffered from lingering side effects which really destroyed his quality of life. In short, the doctors MIGHT have prolonged his life a little (he died at 89) but I think that if they had just left him alone he would have been a lot happier in his remaining years. He was from a generation that had undue respect for doctors who after all are just flawed mortals with boat payments to make and not Olympian gods.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  118. @anon

    Zinc is very difficult to obtain now, back-ordered at Amazon
     
    Post 1982 penny is 97.5% zinc; just file or sandpaper off the copper film and you have pure metallic zinc. It can be easily compounded in lemon juice (citric acid) or Coke/Pepsi (phosphoric acid).

    One A Day vitamins have 24 mg of zinc.

  119. @Redman
    I believe I've posted about Chris Cuomo in the past when he had the run in with the guy who called him Fredo. He was in my law school class at Fordham. Back in 1992 (our first year), Cuomo got into a fight at the local UWS bar that students would go to on Thursday nights.

    I looked up from my group when I heard a loud commotion and saw Chris being held back by 3 or 4 employees of the bar. He was shouting and swearing at some guy and lunging to try to get at him, while being held back. The guy (who I barely saw) was ushered out the door by the bouncer.

    I later was told that he worked at the bar the summer before law school as a bouncer and was friends with all the bouncers and other employees who worked at the bar. It's one thing to get into a bar fight, but another to do so when you know the bouncer crew has your back. One might say that's actually smart, but it's also an unattractive quality. Definitely in the punching down category.

    He’s an entitled bully.

  120. (Haven’t read but a few comments yet.)

    I don’t know if I have time to get into this discussion, but I just read your article, Steve. Chicanos, haha, thank you for that old-school terminology! It kind of made my day. I use it a lot, to be ornery for one thing, and just to see if young people would know what I’m even talking about. Perhaps it will come around again.

    You’ve got to change it up a tad, like Afro-American eventually into African American. Let’s see: People of Chico? People of Chino? They both work.

  121. My guess is that to reboot low-priority spending like going to the movies, we will need reliable masks. To provide everyone in America with a fresh N95 mask every day would require 10 billion masks per month. I’m not aware that anybody in a position of power has been thinking about that very large number.

    A mask is uncomfortable. To be effective it must fit snugly over your mouth and nose with an elastic which digs into your neck. Not only does the mask impede airflow, it recirculates halitosis caused by the garlic fries and onion rings you ate last night. Better to stay home and watch streamed entertainment on your personal jumbotron.

  122. @epebble
    The virus can remain asymptomatic for much longer than 7-14 days and become symptomatic later; even 27 days. Many of the infected we are seeing now and will be seeing in future may have been infected before the social distancing and shutdowns became the norm.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-incubation/coronavirus-incubation-could-be-as-long-as-27-days-chinese-provincial-government-says-idUSKCN20G06W

    Then there is the possibility of relapse:

    https://time.com/5810454/coronavirus-immunity-reinfection/

    The distribution of time from infection to symptoms may be quite wide if you include all cases. But if the vast majority are within a much narrower range, it will be possible to draw very reasonable probabilistic inferences on the date and mode of infection over that range.

    The standard 14 day period for quarantine is mostly a very safe assumption about the maximum length — safe enough that virtually every case will be caught in that period. A much shorter period may be more than adequate for statistical purposes.

    There are always going to be freak cases. Statistically they should have little import.

  123. @Hail

    Even in New York City, few hospitals are overwhelmed
     

    This appears to have encouraged most everybody to avoid hospitals like the plague
     
    This is, of course, the reason not to promote a Panic.

    Elsewhere someone recently wrote that the whole CoronaPanic recently observed, and ongoing, was a good thing because it prepared people. (I would say the data was always ambiguous; with each passing week, it has looked better and better, with plausible true fatality rates down hugging closer towards 0.1%, perhaps above it but just as plausibly actually below it. The media has seldom or never reported this good news.)

    The problem with Panics is: People indulge (believe) in the panic and act irrationally, and bad things happen, and people die.

    If you have a heart attack, our medical system can help you, and these days in most cases has no problem saving your life and helping your full recovery. If you have what seems like it may be a heart attack but choose to refuse medical assistance and continue hiding out, in fear of The Virus you have heard so much about (why risk going to a hospital! Are you crazy? The virus!), and then you die, whose fault is the death?

    ...If it turns out that more people died in New York City because of the CoronaPanic than because of the CoronaVirus -- this before even starting to count the effects of the huge social-economic disruption (CoronaSuicides will be an easily measurable one) -- what then? I wonder if the media will even report it, or, if they do, if those people will be spin-doctor'ed-away into collateral corona victims, rather than Panic victims.

    The now-released Week 14 Total Deaths data out of the UK suggests this has happened there. Excess deaths which were negative for the virus and total deaths positive for the virus were both a few thousand. Note that latter category is not unambiguously "excess," given the "deaths with vs. deaths from" problem, which suggests that an easy majority of excess deaths in the UK, even in the immediate term, were preventable and caused by the Panic itself and not by the Virus.

    …If it turns out that more people died in New York City because of the CoronaPanic than because of the CoronaVirus — this before even starting to count the effects of the huge social-economic disruption (CoronaSuicides will be an easily measurable one) — what then? I wonder if the media will even report it, or, if they do, if those people will be spin-doctor’ed-away into collateral corona victims, rather than Panic victims.

    It probably won’t be “more people” but a lot.

    Last week when NYC was having ~600 corona deaths a day an EMT Union guy complained that they had dealt with 180 cardiac arrests in people’s homes in one day vs 20 on a normal day.

    In sure there will be many retrospectives on this response since it is unprecedented in scale in modern history on many different variables but there politicians will all skate because they did it “for the children” etc.

    It would be amusing to have a tribunal where all the governors, and mayors who issued shelter-in-place orders, their health officials and any cop who enforced their orders are tried and convicted for Civil Rights violations.

    They could be sentenced to various terms of house arrest (with no visitors) based on their level of contribution to the oppression, followed by longer terms of being banned from all parks and beaches. Enforced with ankle monitors.

    • Replies: @Hail

    a tribunal where all the governors, and mayors who issued shelter-in-place orders, their health officials and any cop who enforced their orders are tried and convicted for Civil Rights violations.

    They could be sentenced to various terms of house arrest (with no visitors) based on their level of contribution to the oppression, followed by longer terms of being banned from all parks and beaches. Enforced with ankle monitors.
     

    This is a great idea.

    Will those against the Corona Coup D'Etat turn the tide and make this happen? Long shot, but we are in a giant Twilight Zone episode here (so why not). "Stay tuned."

    Which reminds me. Has Tucker Carlson returned to form yet?

    , @bomag

    It would be amusing to have a tribunal where all the governors, and mayors who issued shelter-in-place orders, their health officials and any cop who enforced their orders are tried and convicted for Civil Rights violations.
     
    Excellent idea.

    But there is so much ruin in this nation that one hesitates to face the darkness and tally the decline at the hands of public officials.
  124. @anon

    Zinc is very difficult to obtain now, back-ordered at Amazon
     
    Post 1982 penny is 97.5% zinc; just file or sandpaper off the copper film and you have pure metallic zinc. It can be easily compounded in lemon juice (citric acid) or Coke/Pepsi (phosphoric acid).

    Now that’s some generic medicine, to be had for pennies on the dollar – the dollar bills will provide you some much needed fiber, especially if you are scared of buying any produce.

    After the next round of money printing, we may get more fiber from 10 dollar bills than from the red cabbage that they can purchase. It’s called cabbage arbitrage or cabitage for short.

  125. @Barnard
    Couldn't part of the reason be that the number of flights is way down from normal? The number of flight attendants working and the number of flight each of them are working has to be way down. I am also wondering if there are more asymptomatic flight attendants than there are people in other professions. Doing that job for years would constantly expose someone to germs. They may have a stronger immunity response to it.

    Nope, Barnard, the airlines have plenty of flight attendants who want to work, especially with schedules down to 20% of normal. The flights are down because (from my estimate – been traveling lately) the number of passengers is down in the neighborhood of 5%, maybe even less of what it was 2 months back.

    Yes, under 5% is my estimate, as flights have been 5 to 20% full, but this is out of a GREATLY REDUCED schedule.

    The airports are a dead zone, some hubs with multiple concourses closed off.

  126. @epebble

    Latin America or Africa
     
    Nothing happened there; nothing to flatten. Largest African deaths are in Algeria: 336. Latin America and Africa may have an order of magnitude higher traffic fatalities.

    Panic is far more viral than any disease.

    Last night I spoke to someone in Algeria who can’t sleep thabks to his terror that the virus is coming to get him.

    As an aside, I met him the Rave app, where people can watch movies together and talk about it. It’s not as awesome as it sounds but it wilo definitely be very appreciated by many people here.

    Does anyone else have a favorite Android app where groups of friends or online aquaintances, like us, can get together to chat and have fun?

    So far, Rave seems to have promise. If anyone sets up a Zoom or Rave for regular istevers (of the less paranoid variety), let us know. Could be a good time.

  127. @SafeNow
    “One challenge with masks and movie theaters is that theaters make a lot of money on concessions and it’s tough to eat or drink while wearing a mask.”

    Excellent point. It’s also difficult to talk. Idiocracy talk, to be exact. Example: The actor on the screen draws a gun. The fellow in back of me says to his date, in a loud voice, “He has a gun.” This is why I stopped going to the movies a long time ago. But if masks reduce talking, I guess that’s good.

    Back in the day, one had to carefully decide whether a genre of film was safe to be viewed at a Canal St. theatre, or whether one should trek out to Metairie in Jefferson Parish, then the land of that greatest of Chinese-Americans, Sheriff Harry Lee. Downtown it was not unheard of to have the audience respond in kind to onscreen gunplay. That said, I can recall at least one comedy improved by not so sotto voce audience commentary.

    For a while I thought that Idiocracy was a documentary sent back from the future as a warning, but I now see that this take is far too optimistic.

  128. @Anon
    OT

    I was thinking about Trump withdrawing WHO funding, which I predict will happen as soon as a southern border wall is completed. But I think withdrawing the funding would be a good idea. The U.S. contributes 15 percent of the budget. Salaries tend to be the biggest business expense, so you could fire 10 to 15 percent of the staff and be out of the red. Anyone who has worked in a larger organization knows that the bottom 15 percent of the staff only contribute maybe 1 percent of the productivity, and to do so require maybe 5 percent of the productivity of other staff to manage and babysit them. In a nonprofit setting, the least productive staff is probably even flakier. What an opportunity to throw out the dead wood! And the WHO could still complain about Trump, while becoming more effective. On the other hand, there may be protections in place to make it hard to fire people, and the dead wood may mostly be URMs from shithole countries.

    By the way, Dr. Fauci has a great idea about coronasports:

    https://www.axios.com/anthony-fauci-sports-baseball-coronavirus-771db025-6193-473e-8f0f-870cf8231b74.html


    Dr. Anthony Fauci joined Snapchat's Peter Hamby on his show "Good Luck America," and was asked about the possibility of abbreviated baseball, college football and NFL seasons this year.

    What he said: "[P]eople say, 'Well you can't play without spectators.' Well, I think you'd probably get enough buy-in from people who are dying to see a baseball game. Particularly me. I'm living in Washington. We have the world champion Washington Nationals. You know, I want to see them play again."

    Fauci said the best way to perhaps begin baseball on TV — say, around July 4 — would be to get players extensively tested and put them in hotels:


    Keep them very well surveilled ... have them tested, like every week. By a gazillion tests. And make sure they don't wind up infecting each other or their family. And just let them play the season out. I mean, that's a really artificial way to do it, but when you think about it, it might be better than nothing."
     

     
    He doesn't mention Baseball Annies.

    In a nonprofit setting, the least productive staff is probably even flakier.

    They are also in charge of deciding who gets fired.

  129. @Reg Cæsar

    The good news is that we actually have flattened the curve. Even in New York City, few hospitals are overwhelmed, and in much of the country, such as California, the situation is better than epidemiologists were predicting only a month ago.
     
    Success has a thousand fathers; failure is an orphan. Watch everyone take credit.

    Pres. Trump looks like a moderate, avoiding the (experts'!) extremes of it'll-blow-over and mass-death-is at-the-doorstep.


    ...NYC doctors are much more reluctant to intubate than they were a month ago.
     
    As my German Catholic ancestors in the city would have patiently explained, mass tubation can lead to blindness.

    Actually the medical maladies linked to masturbation were the work of a Dr. Kellogg ( yes, of Battle Creek, Michigan). He was a nutrition fanatic as well as being responsible for generations of guilt wracked teenagers. His seminal book, Plain Facts for Both Sexes, warned parents that dwarfism, weak eyesight and idiocy were the consequences of ‘self abuse’. To prevent this his suggested remedies for parents started out with wrapping the child’s waist with a towel with the knot tied in the back to encourage sleeping on the stomach. In more severe cases tying a board to a child’s back would make it even more difficult for a child to lie on his back. Ultimately, a chicken wire cage could be fashioned around the young man’s genitalia that would allow for urination but prevent physical contact. Females could be dissuaded by, among other treatments, a borax douche!

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    The Road to Wellville. I prefer the cereal Kellogg than the doc.
  130. @Roger Sweeny
    We don't need everyone to wear N95 masks. That's overkill when it comes to spreading the virus. Plain old surgical or cloth masks are enough.

    You know, unlike surgical masks or just a scarf or something, N95 masks may not even have the benefit of protecting others if the wearer is sick.

    Come to think of it most of them have a valve in them. They only filter the air you breath in, not the air you breath out. That blows out the 1 way valve. And also around the mask as the mask pushes off your face when you breath out unless it is strapped ridiculously tight.

    Hazmat suits I think are the same way. They are meant to keep things out not in. They filter the intake but the out-take is just blasted out into the air.

  131. anon[225] • Disclaimer says:
    @moshe
    Please clarify for your readers how serious or crazy you are.

    You don't want people swallowing old filed currency thanks to a panic.

    I know nothing about the treatment; my comment was just about how to obtain elemental zinc. That is an easy process starting from recent pennies.

    BTW, consuming metallic Zinc is not recommended, Zinc may react with gastric juices to become Zinc Chloride and cause ulcers.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-12-01-9812010102-story.html

  132. @Dave Pinsen
    One challenge with masks and movie theaters is that theaters make a lot of money on concessions and it’s tough to eat or drink while wearing a mask. Maybe they could encourage people to eat their popcorn outside, before the movie.

    One challenge with masks and movie theaters

    New rating system:
    G
    PG
    PG-13
    R
    NC-17
    CV-19

    • LOL: Ron Mexico
  133. anonymous[402] • Disclaimer says:

    It looks like ivermectin helps in several ways. When used in combination with hydroxychloroquine zinc and antibiotics it can be prescribed in low enough doses safe for humans and still inhibit viral reproduction just like it does in a test tube. Apparently zinc is crucial because it enhances the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine as well. Studies where hydroxychloroquine was not used in conjunction with zinc proved disappointing.

    Perhaps ivermectin works in a similar fashion to hydroxychloroquine? It both prevents the virus from entering the cell and slows replication once inside.

    https://atpscience.com/hydroxychloroquine-how-does-it-kill-the-covid-19-virus/

    One of the side effects of hydroxychloroquine is that it increases the normally low pH in the endosomes. Endosomes are where viruses enter cells. For viruses to successfully enter the cells to infect them, they need a low pH (slightly acidic) environment. As hydroxychloroquine increases the pH, the medicine inhibits the virus infecting the cell.[3]

    Hydroxychloroquine – Stopping the replication of the virus

    Hydroxychloroquine also reduces the replication of the virus. It achieves this feat by increasing the pH in another part of the cell, called the Lysosome. Increasing the pH in the Lysosome reduces the replication of COVID-19. This means the virus is unable to replicate in the cells, which is another mechanism by which hydroxychloroquine benefits the COVID-19 sufferer.[4]

    Its sounds like it is critical to slow down the viral load/replication rate enough so that the body’s autoimmune system does not overreact and secondary infections occur before the body’s own immune system has time to respond with its own antibodies.

    It would seem that for folks where this cocktail of drugs does not work fast enough the next step is a direct injection of antibodies via plasma therapy.

    For everybody else not yet infected dosing oneself with vitamin C and D3 would sound like a good idea by boosting the immune system and improving blood oxygenation.

    There seems to be a lot of moving parts here,.

    Defense in depth seems to be the way to go.

    Speaking of which I need to get outside and get some vitamin D.

    I miss not following the comments here at ISTEVE. I guess this is the bright side of having my hours cut.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    It would be very nice if the old-time wonder drug ivermectin helps out with this new disease: the world has tons of ivermectin sitting on shelves because it is used for people, pets, and livestock.
    , @anonymous
    I see where the NIH is not recommending the use of anti-infammatory drugs particularly steriods to fight the autoimmune reactions to Covid-19 since it suppresses the immune system too much.

    That may be one major reason so many elderly patients and the obese on steriods are in so much danger.

    That just makes things that much harder.
  134. @moshe
    ACTUAL laugh out loud!

    I just imagined a host of older middle-aged grandma contestants standing still as Old Joe pasued behind each of them, one by one, for a sniff as he rolled theur hair around and kissed the cracked make up on their necks.

    It should be televized either right before or after President Trump's Ms Preteen America.

    Let America have choice!

    LOL

    I actually thought of this.

  135. @Ozymandias
    Lately there's been a bit of a pissing contest over who has the authority to open the economy back up. Dems assure us that shutting the economy down was entirely Trump's responsibility. Yet Dem governors are now volunteering to take responsibility for keeping it shut down. How is that going to play in heavily democrat areas if Trump opens things back up but their locally elected democrat leaders are forcing the democrat constituency to continue suffering? They will riot and blame the Dems they previously elected. It has to be some kind of Jedi mind trick.

    Yet Dem governors are now volunteering to take responsibility for keeping it shut down. How is that going to play in heavily democrat areas if Trump opens things back up but their locally elected democrat leaders are forcing the democrat constituency to continue suffering? They will riot and blame the Dems they previously elected.

    No, the media will say it’s Trump’s fault, no matter what. Do what Trump says, Trump’s fault. Don’t do what Trump says, Trump’s fault. Trump is the solution to all political problems.

    • Replies: @Meretricious
    Exactly. The people will blame whomever the media tell them to blame.
  136. @anonymous
    It looks like ivermectin helps in several ways. When used in combination with hydroxychloroquine zinc and antibiotics it can be prescribed in low enough doses safe for humans and still inhibit viral reproduction just like it does in a test tube. Apparently zinc is crucial because it enhances the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine as well. Studies where hydroxychloroquine was not used in conjunction with zinc proved disappointing.

    Perhaps ivermectin works in a similar fashion to hydroxychloroquine? It both prevents the virus from entering the cell and slows replication once inside.

    https://atpscience.com/hydroxychloroquine-how-does-it-kill-the-covid-19-virus/

    One of the side effects of hydroxychloroquine is that it increases the normally low pH in the endosomes. Endosomes are where viruses enter cells. For viruses to successfully enter the cells to infect them, they need a low pH (slightly acidic) environment. As hydroxychloroquine increases the pH, the medicine inhibits the virus infecting the cell.[3]

    Hydroxychloroquine – Stopping the replication of the virus

    Hydroxychloroquine also reduces the replication of the virus. It achieves this feat by increasing the pH in another part of the cell, called the Lysosome. Increasing the pH in the Lysosome reduces the replication of COVID-19. This means the virus is unable to replicate in the cells, which is another mechanism by which hydroxychloroquine benefits the COVID-19 sufferer.[4]

     
    Its sounds like it is critical to slow down the viral load/replication rate enough so that the body's autoimmune system does not overreact and secondary infections occur before the body's own immune system has time to respond with its own antibodies.

    It would seem that for folks where this cocktail of drugs does not work fast enough the next step is a direct injection of antibodies via plasma therapy.

    For everybody else not yet infected dosing oneself with vitamin C and D3 would sound like a good idea by boosting the immune system and improving blood oxygenation.

    There seems to be a lot of moving parts here,.

    Defense in depth seems to be the way to go.

    Speaking of which I need to get outside and get some vitamin D.

    I miss not following the comments here at ISTEVE. I guess this is the bright side of having my hours cut.

    It would be very nice if the old-time wonder drug ivermectin helps out with this new disease: the world has tons of ivermectin sitting on shelves because it is used for people, pets, and livestock.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    What I find interesting is the unique challenge this epidemic is posing to traditional medicine.

    It does not seem that anyone of these repurposed old-time wonder drugs will work if not used in combination with other drugs, vitamins and or minerals.

    Hydroxychloroqine seems to be a bust if not used in combination with zinc. The few human trials of ivermectin appear to be done in conjunction with Hydroxychloroqine &zinc, and IVs of vitamin C and D3. You really want to wait a couple months to be sure that ivermectin alone can do the job?

    There is lots laboratory research and theory to support the use all of this.

    So the hell with individualized double blind testing of single variables.

    Ok these drugs are cheap and available. But when do you use them according to their known side effect risk. First sign of fever???

    If used early on you could keep lots of infected folks out of the ICU maybe out the hospital entirely.

    I can not see how you can stop doctors from using ivermetin and hydroxychloroquine early on no questions asked.

    Sure you have the next and perhaps most certain line of defense; the direct transfer of antibodies via plasma.

    Problem is this therapy may be so effective that patient families will demand it early on and supply will be so limited due to all the logistical issues. Without massive testing to identify asymptomatic non-infectious antibody carriers this therapy will be of limited use. If you have a serious Covid-19 breakout in your area can wait until some of your known infected get well and can donate plasma?

    Even then if you dedicated all plasma collection to fighting covid-19 this therapy may only be available in major cities with Plasmapheresis facilities.

    I would to be tested for Covid-19 during my physical on my next day off so I can donate plasma. I have been working 7 days a week over 60 hours a week as a delivery driver since up to this last few days. Who knows I could be a one of those 70-80% asymptomatic covid-19 exposures with antibodies ready to harvest. I have made deliveries to places where I know folks have had the virus like the county jail, hospital and work release so who knows

    Last ditch intubation. But if your lungs are seriously scarred due to a massive autoimmune cytokine storm this seems the equivalent of the poor bastard starring down the T-34s with the just a panzerfaust.
  137. @moshe
    I'm very sorry to hear about it. I hope that you and your wife make complete recoveries and don't require any unhappy medical attention again as you breeze through the next decades of your life happily and healthily.

    Moshe,

    Thank you for your kindness, sir.

  138. anonymous[402] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous
    It looks like ivermectin helps in several ways. When used in combination with hydroxychloroquine zinc and antibiotics it can be prescribed in low enough doses safe for humans and still inhibit viral reproduction just like it does in a test tube. Apparently zinc is crucial because it enhances the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine as well. Studies where hydroxychloroquine was not used in conjunction with zinc proved disappointing.

    Perhaps ivermectin works in a similar fashion to hydroxychloroquine? It both prevents the virus from entering the cell and slows replication once inside.

    https://atpscience.com/hydroxychloroquine-how-does-it-kill-the-covid-19-virus/

    One of the side effects of hydroxychloroquine is that it increases the normally low pH in the endosomes. Endosomes are where viruses enter cells. For viruses to successfully enter the cells to infect them, they need a low pH (slightly acidic) environment. As hydroxychloroquine increases the pH, the medicine inhibits the virus infecting the cell.[3]

    Hydroxychloroquine – Stopping the replication of the virus

    Hydroxychloroquine also reduces the replication of the virus. It achieves this feat by increasing the pH in another part of the cell, called the Lysosome. Increasing the pH in the Lysosome reduces the replication of COVID-19. This means the virus is unable to replicate in the cells, which is another mechanism by which hydroxychloroquine benefits the COVID-19 sufferer.[4]

     
    Its sounds like it is critical to slow down the viral load/replication rate enough so that the body's autoimmune system does not overreact and secondary infections occur before the body's own immune system has time to respond with its own antibodies.

    It would seem that for folks where this cocktail of drugs does not work fast enough the next step is a direct injection of antibodies via plasma therapy.

    For everybody else not yet infected dosing oneself with vitamin C and D3 would sound like a good idea by boosting the immune system and improving blood oxygenation.

    There seems to be a lot of moving parts here,.

    Defense in depth seems to be the way to go.

    Speaking of which I need to get outside and get some vitamin D.

    I miss not following the comments here at ISTEVE. I guess this is the bright side of having my hours cut.

    I see where the NIH is not recommending the use of anti-infammatory drugs particularly steriods to fight the autoimmune reactions to Covid-19 since it suppresses the immune system too much.

    That may be one major reason so many elderly patients and the obese on steriods are in so much danger.

    That just makes things that much harder.

  139. It’s not in fish tank cleaner, is it?

  140. @utu
    To test the BCG hypothesis Chicanos could be compared with Mexican immigrants. Mexico has 96% BCG vaccination coverage.

    Good idea.

  141. @Anonymous
    stop saying and writing intubate. not a thing

    It certainly seems like a thing. Doctors use it. Dictionaries use it. The Lancet uses it.

    New verbs are made from nouns all of the time. What would you prefer people say? “Conduct intubation”? I’ll stick with intubate, thanks.

    • Agree: Cortes
  142. @anonymous jew
    Weren't his symptoms mild? Maybe his initial point was spot on.

    Perhaps, but he didn’t help with the panic thing

  143. @Ozymandias
    Lately there's been a bit of a pissing contest over who has the authority to open the economy back up. Dems assure us that shutting the economy down was entirely Trump's responsibility. Yet Dem governors are now volunteering to take responsibility for keeping it shut down. How is that going to play in heavily democrat areas if Trump opens things back up but their locally elected democrat leaders are forcing the democrat constituency to continue suffering? They will riot and blame the Dems they previously elected. It has to be some kind of Jedi mind trick.

    A lot of people would do well to read the Constitution of the United States. You know, that musty old document drawn up and signed by evil patriarchal white male slaveowners. I will make it a personal project to read the current Illinois constitution, which I think was adopted in the late ’60s or early ’70s. I’m going to be looking for the part that authorizes the Governor to rule by decree during emergencies that he personally has declared without the need for anyone else’s approval.

  144. @unit472
    Actually the medical maladies linked to masturbation were the work of a Dr. Kellogg ( yes, of Battle Creek, Michigan). He was a nutrition fanatic as well as being responsible for generations of guilt wracked teenagers. His seminal book, Plain Facts for Both Sexes, warned parents that dwarfism, weak eyesight and idiocy were the consequences of 'self abuse'. To prevent this his suggested remedies for parents started out with wrapping the child's waist with a towel with the knot tied in the back to encourage sleeping on the stomach. In more severe cases tying a board to a child's back would make it even more difficult for a child to lie on his back. Ultimately, a chicken wire cage could be fashioned around the young man's genitalia that would allow for urination but prevent physical contact. Females could be dissuaded by, among other treatments, a borax douche!

    The Road to Wellville. I prefer the cereal Kellogg than the doc.

  145. @Whitey Whiteman III
    You're correct. Even in flyover country, wipes/sanitizer/TP were all already sold out at the beginning of the week that all of the sports shut down at the end of (and into the following week).

    To the extent we live in a “media-run state,” I’d offer these sage words:

    The supreme function of statesmanship is to provide against preventable evils. In seeking to do so, it encounters obstacles which are deeply rooted in human nature…
    — Enoch Powell, 1968.

    (But he could as well have been talking about the Coronavirus response of 2020.)

    The media is guilty.

  146. @anonymous
    Covid-19 vaccine virus in 18 months??? Sorry but this boomer will focus on keeping his immune system in top shape and rolling his own dice.

    The weak persistence from any potential Covid-19 vaccine is one issue.

    But I think there are other reasons that there have been problems developing SARS and Corona virus vaccines for over a decade that are well known but not being talked about enough,

    This is from Robert Kennedy Jr's and anti-big Pharma outfit Childrens Health Defense childrenshealthdefense.org

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=178&v=RzFP4yzZzII&feature=emb_logo

    You can discount it, but the video raises lots of question of whether or not any Corona virus vaccine will face the same hurdles that have confronted developing vaccines for dengue fever for decades. There is a trade off in attempting to immunize in regards to developing good and persistent "neutralizing" antibodies at the expense of bad and more persistent "binding" antibodies. Binding antibodies can actually weaken the immune system if actually infected or reinfected at a later date with a different strain and possibly trigger long term autoimmune side effects as well.

    And what seems to be so deadly about Covid-19 is that the body's innate inflammatory autoimmune response is often so much stronger than its more precise adaptive immune system. Interestingly Hydrochloroquine and zync are used for both malaria and the autoimmune disease lupus.

    That maybe why collecting plasma from recently recovered Covid-19 patients seems to be of such interest. You are potentially transmitting a higher ratio of good neutralizing antibodies for just the right strain of the virus in your area with a lower potential long term downside risk.

    I am in no way an anti-vaccination type but I have major issues with big pharma. Guess it is because I struggled for years with bad nutritional advice, "food pyramid" until I went hardcore Keto-IF. I have not had a cold or bout of the flu in years.

    Check out this on Bill Gates and Big Pharma.

    Gates’ Globalist Vaccine Agenda: A Win-Win for Pharma and Mandatory Vaccination
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/government-corruption/gates-globalist-vaccine-agenda-a-win-win-for-pharma-and-mandatory-vaccination/

    I’m not an anti-vaxxer per se, but I’ve had enough negative experiences with meds and vaccines to be wary of welcoming any new vaccine. I’m with you on the Keto, much to the horror of my doctor, who praises me on my general health and all of my blood values, except the early days when my cholesterol was relatively high.

  147. @The Wild Geese Howard

    It is still dumb that golf courses are closed.
     
    It's funny how so many of the new rules come off as someone's arbitrary power trip rather than a well-thought out plan to safeguard public health.

    Again, I'm sure it's purely coincidence.

    someone’s arbitrary power trip

    Several epitaphs (and probably some epithets) deserve to be imprinted upon the tomb of the Great Corona Panic of 2020, when it is finally over and laid to rest.

    Space allowing, I’d like to nominate these four words.

  148. @Anonymous
    stop saying and writing intubate. not a thing

    not a thing

    You saying no one snacks whilst riding in the London Underground? Tosh, sir! Stuff and nonsense!

    • Replies: @vhrm
    a) niccce

    b) it reminded me of that story last year from DC about the brown woman who called out the black transit worker for eating on the train against the rules and learned that a lesson about who can criticize whom in the US.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/dc-metro-worker-eating-train-viral-tweet-author

    The transit Union really poured it on thick in their response. Vicky Pollard would be proud.

    It's too long to quote it all but among the excuses and deflections:
    -that the train was running late
    - that she sends her kids to DC public schools
    - that, because of the tweet, she couldn't enjoy Mother's Day
    - that there are roaches and rats in the metro system
    - that she's very sorry and embarrassed
    - ... but of actually she didn't do anything wrong because:

    Hobson added that the operator would have usually followed the rules and not eaten on the train. However, she was aware of an email that Metro Transit Police Chief Ron Pavlik had sent May 8 — just two days before Tynes' tweet — ordering transit officers to “cease and desist from issuing criminal citations in the District of Columbia for fare evasion; eating; drinking; spitting, and playing musical instruments without headphones until further advised.”

    “Understanding this email, our operator clearly was doing no wrong,” the Metro workers union said in a statement.
     

    The overall story though, both the employee eating in the train and the non-enforcement email that gets quoted soaks to out current moment to some degree about who rules are for and who would likely follow them and who wouldn't.
  149. @RichardTaylor
    Did we flatten the curve? Or was this going to happen anyway, except for a few hot spots?

    Doesn't look like the outcomes in Sweden and Germany are all that different. Did Latin America or Africa do much of anything?

    I just looked this up since I was arguing with a Lib. Note I am strongly for ending the lockdown immediately and letting individuals determine their own risk level and acting appropriately.

    Sweden’s death rate is double that of Denmark’s and about 30% above ours. You can also look between states – ie the Dakotas (no lockdown) v Wyoming.

    While I will admit that the lockdowns do have some effect, they would probably be just as effective if they were better targeted. Also, weather, living conditions and other factors appear to have a much bigger impact than whether or not a lockdown is in place. Compare New York to the Dakotas, or the Sunbelt to the Northeast.

    Just because a policy decision saves lives does not mean it’s a good policy decision. The lockdown is like lowering the highway speed limit to 10 mph because 36,500 people die per year in traffic accidents. There are better ways to go about things, and sometimes we’re better off just letting more people die. Recall the median age of Coronavirus deaths in Italy is a only a few years younger than the average life expectancy (appropriately one year for men).

    The fat lady hasn’t sung yet. Sweden may not be so bad in the long run because they’re getting herd immunity now. In rural states, the lockdown appears to have virtually no effect. Having the same restrictions for New York and a rural town in the sunbelt is just asinine.

    We forget that roughly 600,000 people a year die in this country due to smoking, drugs and alcohol. We’re OK with that because we place an extremely high value on freedom, and we’re ok with policy decisions that lead to excess deaths if they preserve our individual freedoms. We also forget that a few years ago we lost 61,000 to the flu (per the CDC). Based on our current knowledge of Coronavirus our current policy approach is inconsistent with how we traditionally balance risk, freedom and utility against excess deaths. Personally I think this is just insane for a virus that has an IFR of around .2 – .3%

    • Replies: @RichardTaylor
    So far I don't see much difference in the number of deaths per capita in Sweden compared to the US. If the predictions were anywhere near correct, you'd expect several times our death rate.

    I agree, let certain regions like NYC have a unique policy. I hope we get some reflection on this issue once it dies down.
    , @Meretricious

    The lockdown is like lowering the highway speed limit to 10 mph because 36,500 people die per year in traffic accidents.
     
    Good analogy.
  150. @vhrm

    …If it turns out that more people died in New York City because of the CoronaPanic than because of the CoronaVirus — this before even starting to count the effects of the huge social-economic disruption (CoronaSuicides will be an easily measurable one) — what then? I wonder if the media will even report it, or, if they do, if those people will be spin-doctor’ed-away into collateral corona victims, rather than Panic victims.
     
    It probably won't be "more people" but a lot.

    Last week when NYC was having ~600 corona deaths a day an EMT Union guy complained that they had dealt with 180 cardiac arrests in people's homes in one day vs 20 on a normal day.

    In sure there will be many retrospectives on this response since it is unprecedented in scale in modern history on many different variables but there politicians will all skate because they did it "for the children" etc.

    It would be amusing to have a tribunal where all the governors, and mayors who issued shelter-in-place orders, their health officials and any cop who enforced their orders are tried and convicted for Civil Rights violations.

    They could be sentenced to various terms of house arrest (with no visitors) based on their level of contribution to the oppression, followed by longer terms of being banned from all parks and beaches. Enforced with ankle monitors.

    a tribunal where all the governors, and mayors who issued shelter-in-place orders, their health officials and any cop who enforced their orders are tried and convicted for Civil Rights violations.

    They could be sentenced to various terms of house arrest (with no visitors) based on their level of contribution to the oppression, followed by longer terms of being banned from all parks and beaches. Enforced with ankle monitors.

    This is a great idea.

    Will those against the Corona Coup D’Etat turn the tide and make this happen? Long shot, but we are in a giant Twilight Zone episode here (so why not). “Stay tuned.”

    Which reminds me. Has Tucker Carlson returned to form yet?

  151. anonymous[402] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    It would be very nice if the old-time wonder drug ivermectin helps out with this new disease: the world has tons of ivermectin sitting on shelves because it is used for people, pets, and livestock.

    What I find interesting is the unique challenge this epidemic is posing to traditional medicine.

    It does not seem that anyone of these repurposed old-time wonder drugs will work if not used in combination with other drugs, vitamins and or minerals.

    Hydroxychloroqine seems to be a bust if not used in combination with zinc. The few human trials of ivermectin appear to be done in conjunction with Hydroxychloroqine &zinc, and IVs of vitamin C and D3. You really want to wait a couple months to be sure that ivermectin alone can do the job?

    There is lots laboratory research and theory to support the use all of this.

    So the hell with individualized double blind testing of single variables.

    Ok these drugs are cheap and available. But when do you use them according to their known side effect risk. First sign of fever???

    If used early on you could keep lots of infected folks out of the ICU maybe out the hospital entirely.

    I can not see how you can stop doctors from using ivermetin and hydroxychloroquine early on no questions asked.

    Sure you have the next and perhaps most certain line of defense; the direct transfer of antibodies via plasma.

    Problem is this therapy may be so effective that patient families will demand it early on and supply will be so limited due to all the logistical issues. Without massive testing to identify asymptomatic non-infectious antibody carriers this therapy will be of limited use. If you have a serious Covid-19 breakout in your area can wait until some of your known infected get well and can donate plasma?

    Even then if you dedicated all plasma collection to fighting covid-19 this therapy may only be available in major cities with Plasmapheresis facilities.

    I would to be tested for Covid-19 during my physical on my next day off so I can donate plasma. I have been working 7 days a week over 60 hours a week as a delivery driver since up to this last few days. Who knows I could be a one of those 70-80% asymptomatic covid-19 exposures with antibodies ready to harvest. I have made deliveries to places where I know folks have had the virus like the county jail, hospital and work release so who knows

    Last ditch intubation. But if your lungs are seriously scarred due to a massive autoimmune cytokine storm this seems the equivalent of the poor bastard starring down the T-34s with the just a panzerfaust.

  152. @danand

    “This appears to have encouraged most everybody to avoid hospitals like the plague.”
     
    This Seattle doctor couldn’t avoid the hospital. Interesting there hasn’t been a lot on “noise” about the drug (Actemra) and Vitamin C regimen that saved him. Excerpt from the LA Times article on the doctor’s ordeal:

    “A 6-foot-3, 250-pound former football star who played for Northwestern in the 1996 Rose Bowl, he wasn't fazed by much. “To worry about myself, as a 44-year-old healthy man, didn’t even cross my mind,” he said in an interview Monday.

    But on March 12, with his wedding day two months away, Padgett became the patient. Soon after being admitted to his own hospital with a fever, cough and difficulty breathing, he was placed on a ventilator. Five days after that, his lungs and kidneys were failing, his heart was in trouble, and doctors figured he had a day or so to live.

    He owes his survival to an elite team of doctors who tried an experimental treatment pioneered in China and used on the sickest of all COVID-19 patients.

    Lessons from his dramatic recovery could help doctors worldwide treat other extremely ill COVID-19 patients. "This is a movie-like save, it doesn't happen in the real world often," Dr. Padgett said.

    Once his colleagues at EvergreenHealth realized they had run out of options, they called Swedish Medical Center, one of two Seattle hospitals that has a machine known as an ECMO, which replaces the functions of the heart and lungs. But even after the hospital admitted him, doctors there had to figure out why he was so profoundly sick.

    Based on the astronomical level of inflammation in his body and reports written by Chinese and Italian physicians who had treated the sickest COVID-19 patients, the doctors came to believe that it was not the disease itself killing him but his own immune system.

    It had gone haywire and began to attack itself — a syndrome known as a "cytokine storm."

    The doctors tried a drug called Actemra, which was designed to treat rheumatoid arthritis but also approved in 2017 to treat cytokine storms in cancer patients.

    Dr. Matt Hartman, a cardiologist, said that after four days on the immunosuppressive drug, supplemented by high-dose vitamin C and other therapies, the level of oxygen in Padgett's blood improved dramatically. On March 23, doctors were able to take him off life support.
    Four days later, they removed his breathing tube.

    He slowly came out of his sedated coma, at first imagining that he was in the top floor of the Space Needle converted to a COVID ward.”

     
    Just in case it’s not common knowledge yet, make sure to lie/sleep on your stomach if infected. The lungs most “active” areas are at your back; keep the backs of the lungs as free of fluid as possible.

    As for Movie theaters 🎭, I can’t help but think 2019 was their swan. As more than a few have suggested, I would guess the “big screen” experience is going to be limited to the view through a windshield. Few will risk dying for a movie, a hard sell to find anyone to think it worth even the std flu for a theater view. Unless of course today’s 15 minute test becomes tomorrow’s 15 second test, which almost has to happen if life is to revert close to what it was. You’d have to think that technology would be worth a trillion or two.

    I think you all drastically underestimate how badly people want life to go back to normal.

    I would go to a movie theatre right now and not think twice

  153. @anon
    not a thing

    You saying no one snacks whilst riding in the London Underground? Tosh, sir! Stuff and nonsense!

    a) niccce

    b) it reminded me of that story last year from DC about the brown woman who called out the black transit worker for eating on the train against the rules and learned that a lesson about who can criticize whom in the US.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/dc-metro-worker-eating-train-viral-tweet-author

    The transit Union really poured it on thick in their response. Vicky Pollard would be proud.

    It’s too long to quote it all but among the excuses and deflections:
    -that the train was running late
    – that she sends her kids to DC public schools
    – that, because of the tweet, she couldn’t enjoy Mother’s Day
    – that there are roaches and rats in the metro system
    – that she’s very sorry and embarrassed
    – … but of actually she didn’t do anything wrong because:

    Hobson added that the operator would have usually followed the rules and not eaten on the train. However, she was aware of an email that Metro Transit Police Chief Ron Pavlik had sent May 8 — just two days before Tynes’ tweet — ordering transit officers to “cease and desist from issuing criminal citations in the District of Columbia for fare evasion; eating; drinking; spitting, and playing musical instruments without headphones until further advised.”

    “Understanding this email, our operator clearly was doing no wrong,” the Metro workers union said in a statement.

    The overall story though, both the employee eating in the train and the non-enforcement email that gets quoted soaks to out current moment to some degree about who rules are for and who would likely follow them and who wouldn’t.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    ...about who rules are for and who would likely follow them and who wouldn’t.
     
    My favorite example of this is the Mayor of Chicago who closed everything down, told people to stay inside, and then went and got her hair done.

    Unless it was free, she paid too much:

    https://news.wttw.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/article/image-non-gallery/AP19336687966567.jpg
  154. @Jack D
    ECMOs (heart lung machines) are even worse. It's quite common that men (it's mostly men) who have had heart bypasses (the most common use for them in the past although nowadays a lot of bypasses are done "beating heart") are never quite the same cognitively afterward.

    The explanation I heard was that micro particles of plastic from the machine get into your blood stream and brain.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Doubtful.
  155. @Steve Sailer
    While reading Tom Wolfe's "A Man in Full," you can see the point toward the end when he had a quintuple bypass: The first X pages are likely his best ever prose style, but the last 100 pages are markedly more slapdash.

    Wolfe explained that after the surgery, when he first recovered he developed manic-depression, first being too excited to sit and write and then too depressed. Finally, he decided to just get it over with and publish it after all these years.

    My Life in Pills – Freddie DeBoer

  156. @MB
    The explanation I heard was that micro particles of plastic from the machine get into your blood stream and brain.

    Doubtful.

  157. @Chrisnonymous

    the preliminary finding of the ongoing study in hard-hit Heinsberg, Germany, emphasizes instead the threat from animated face-to-face conversation rather than from quiet shopping
     
    Any state that doesn't already have it should pass a law making it a misdemeanor to ignore health advice from a doctor when the advice is designed to protect public health. Then everyone with a cough, a (+) test result, or a close contact who's sick should be told not to attend parties/weddings/etc

    Steve,

    how is your health data mining to find safe jobs going to work if lots of people are asymptomatic and never got tested? Also, will the huge numbers overwhelm the effect of a superspreader walking into a normally safe shop and infecting everyone there? Also, how are you going to determine if an employee got sick at the office, home, or the bar/pub? I just don't see how this idea could really work.

    “how is your health data mining to find safe jobs going to work if lots of people are asymptomatic and never got tested?”

    What are we up to? 650,000 cases in the U.S.? That’s a pretty big sample.

    Do we have some reason to assume that some occupations will be more asymptomatic than others for reasons that aren’t captured in data like age, race, and sex? Maybe, but it doesn’t sound like a fatal problem for analysis.

  158. Anonymous[379] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve Sailer, your column is completely delusional. This virus will be here for a very, very long time. It might even become seasonal and come back next year.

    The curve is not flattening. All that needs to happen is for quarantine to end and then a month latter we will be back to thousands of people dying every day. If just ONE person still has the virus, it’s over. A very long quarantine of several months will be needed, and the economy will be ruined. And even then it is not garanteed that it will end, because people still need to eat. Everything that comes though the mail, food and medcine, might have virions on them. You *cannot* completely eliminate contact between human beings, much less so for 6-18 months which is what would be needed until we get a vaccine.

    It is over. People are in *denial* that their lives as they know it are over. Their lives of consumerism, going to shopping malls, having freedom, etc, and those things that Americans value so much, are gone.

    This is an End Game Virus. It’s lethality(5% overall) globally, the fact that it is extremely contagious and that it mutates, meaning that creating a vaccine will give you only a temporary win, makes this an end-game for human civilization as we know it, and maybe for the human species if we do not take it as seriously as it is and don’t prepare ourselves for a long, long war against a vicious enemy.

    China managed to literally End The World with their filfhy habits of eating bat meat and sea urchins. It’s not like this is the first pandemic that starts in China. This one, the Chinese screwed up big time.

    • Replies: @moshe
    Dude, Steve was one of the early Panickers but you are on whole nother lever.

    Please tell us more about you.

    Are you under 26?

    What maladies have you been diagnosed with in the past?

    Are you too rich to work, too poor to have worked, etc?

    You are an interesting specimen and if you're willing to be honest about your essential stats I would be interested in hearing them.

    As for your Whiskeyish certitude, I can see why you left out your nom de guerre. Even you know that you are embarrassed to hold such a silly and super childish view.

    If tou're seriously worried however, let me calm you. I'm a rational adult and I can assure you with 99.9% confidence that this virus and its mutations will NOT lead to the end of the human species. You're going to be okay.
  159. @Anonymous Jew
    I just looked this up since I was arguing with a Lib. Note I am strongly for ending the lockdown immediately and letting individuals determine their own risk level and acting appropriately.

    Sweden’s death rate is double that of Denmark’s and about 30% above ours. You can also look between states - ie the Dakotas (no lockdown) v Wyoming.

    While I will admit that the lockdowns do have some effect, they would probably be just as effective if they were better targeted. Also, weather, living conditions and other factors appear to have a much bigger impact than whether or not a lockdown is in place. Compare New York to the Dakotas, or the Sunbelt to the Northeast.

    Just because a policy decision saves lives does not mean it’s a good policy decision. The lockdown is like lowering the highway speed limit to 10 mph because 36,500 people die per year in traffic accidents. There are better ways to go about things, and sometimes we’re better off just letting more people die. Recall the median age of Coronavirus deaths in Italy is a only a few years younger than the average life expectancy (appropriately one year for men).

    The fat lady hasn’t sung yet. Sweden may not be so bad in the long run because they’re getting herd immunity now. In rural states, the lockdown appears to have virtually no effect. Having the same restrictions for New York and a rural town in the sunbelt is just asinine.

    We forget that roughly 600,000 people a year die in this country due to smoking, drugs and alcohol. We’re OK with that because we place an extremely high value on freedom, and we’re ok with policy decisions that lead to excess deaths if they preserve our individual freedoms. We also forget that a few years ago we lost 61,000 to the flu (per the CDC). Based on our current knowledge of Coronavirus our current policy approach is inconsistent with how we traditionally balance risk, freedom and utility against excess deaths. Personally I think this is just insane for a virus that has an IFR of around .2 - .3%

    So far I don’t see much difference in the number of deaths per capita in Sweden compared to the US. If the predictions were anywhere near correct, you’d expect several times our death rate.

    I agree, let certain regions like NYC have a unique policy. I hope we get some reflection on this issue once it dies down.

  160. @The Wild Geese Howard

    Interesting there hasn’t been a lot on “noise” about the drug (Actemra) and Vitamin C regimen that saved him.
     
    This appears to be happening to every potential treatment that is not an exotic new vaccine that will take at least 18 months to develop.

    I'm sure it's purely coincidence.

    Or is a treatment which could be hugely profitable for drug makers.

  161. @Jim Don Bob

    Some people would like most businesses to go broke.
     
    The MSM and the Dems don't give a damn about small businesses, since most of them are run by evil white men.

    HRC said something like this when criticized by what her health plan might do to small businesses: "I can't be responsible for every under-capitalized small business in this country."
    • Thanks: Jim Don Bob
  162. @Anonymous
    Steve Sailer, your column is completely delusional. This virus will be here for a very, very long time. It might even become seasonal and come back next year.

    The curve is not flattening. All that needs to happen is for quarantine to end and then a month latter we will be back to thousands of people dying every day. If just ONE person still has the virus, it's over. A very long quarantine of several months will be needed, and the economy will be ruined. And even then it is not garanteed that it will end, because people still need to eat. Everything that comes though the mail, food and medcine, might have virions on them. You *cannot* completely eliminate contact between human beings, much less so for 6-18 months which is what would be needed until we get a vaccine.

    It is over. People are in *denial* that their lives as they know it are over. Their lives of consumerism, going to shopping malls, having freedom, etc, and those things that Americans value so much, are gone.

    This is an End Game Virus. It's lethality(5% overall) globally, the fact that it is extremely contagious and that it mutates, meaning that creating a vaccine will give you only a temporary win, makes this an end-game for human civilization as we know it, and maybe for the human species if we do not take it as seriously as it is and don't prepare ourselves for a long, long war against a vicious enemy.

    China managed to literally End The World with their filfhy habits of eating bat meat and sea urchins. It's not like this is the first pandemic that starts in China. This one, the Chinese screwed up big time.

    Dude, Steve was one of the early Panickers but you are on whole nother lever.

    Please tell us more about you.

    Are you under 26?

    What maladies have you been diagnosed with in the past?

    Are you too rich to work, too poor to have worked, etc?

    You are an interesting specimen and if you’re willing to be honest about your essential stats I would be interested in hearing them.

    As for your Whiskeyish certitude, I can see why you left out your nom de guerre. Even you know that you are embarrassed to hold such a silly and super childish view.

    If tou’re seriously worried however, let me calm you. I’m a rational adult and I can assure you with 99.9% confidence that this virus and its mutations will NOT lead to the end of the human species. You’re going to be okay.

  163. @Louis Renault
    Nobody at a hedge fund gives a damn about a local business like the local hair cuttery, restaurant or auto repair shop. They'll be quite happy to help comrade Xi buy up stock in GM, Carnival Cruise Lines and a bunch of NYSE, NASDQ listed ,and other such companies. "The current crisis is..." created by a massive information opertion targeted directly at the very gullible American citizen, much to the delight of America's left, America's enemies and all of Trump's.

    Nobody at a hedge fund gives a damn about a local business like the local hair cuttery, restaurant or auto repair shop.

    They do give a damn if there’s real estate involved. That’s how funds made a killing in 2008 – rolling up thousands of defaulted properties and bringing “efficiencies” into the property management side. This time will be even more severe.

  164. @peterike

    Yet Dem governors are now volunteering to take responsibility for keeping it shut down. How is that going to play in heavily democrat areas if Trump opens things back up but their locally elected democrat leaders are forcing the democrat constituency to continue suffering? They will riot and blame the Dems they previously elected.
     
    No, the media will say it's Trump's fault, no matter what. Do what Trump says, Trump's fault. Don't do what Trump says, Trump's fault. Trump is the solution to all political problems.

    Exactly. The people will blame whomever the media tell them to blame.

  165. @Anonymous Jew
    I just looked this up since I was arguing with a Lib. Note I am strongly for ending the lockdown immediately and letting individuals determine their own risk level and acting appropriately.

    Sweden’s death rate is double that of Denmark’s and about 30% above ours. You can also look between states - ie the Dakotas (no lockdown) v Wyoming.

    While I will admit that the lockdowns do have some effect, they would probably be just as effective if they were better targeted. Also, weather, living conditions and other factors appear to have a much bigger impact than whether or not a lockdown is in place. Compare New York to the Dakotas, or the Sunbelt to the Northeast.

    Just because a policy decision saves lives does not mean it’s a good policy decision. The lockdown is like lowering the highway speed limit to 10 mph because 36,500 people die per year in traffic accidents. There are better ways to go about things, and sometimes we’re better off just letting more people die. Recall the median age of Coronavirus deaths in Italy is a only a few years younger than the average life expectancy (appropriately one year for men).

    The fat lady hasn’t sung yet. Sweden may not be so bad in the long run because they’re getting herd immunity now. In rural states, the lockdown appears to have virtually no effect. Having the same restrictions for New York and a rural town in the sunbelt is just asinine.

    We forget that roughly 600,000 people a year die in this country due to smoking, drugs and alcohol. We’re OK with that because we place an extremely high value on freedom, and we’re ok with policy decisions that lead to excess deaths if they preserve our individual freedoms. We also forget that a few years ago we lost 61,000 to the flu (per the CDC). Based on our current knowledge of Coronavirus our current policy approach is inconsistent with how we traditionally balance risk, freedom and utility against excess deaths. Personally I think this is just insane for a virus that has an IFR of around .2 - .3%

    The lockdown is like lowering the highway speed limit to 10 mph because 36,500 people die per year in traffic accidents.

    Good analogy.

  166. @danand

    “This appears to have encouraged most everybody to avoid hospitals like the plague.”
     
    This Seattle doctor couldn’t avoid the hospital. Interesting there hasn’t been a lot on “noise” about the drug (Actemra) and Vitamin C regimen that saved him. Excerpt from the LA Times article on the doctor’s ordeal:

    “A 6-foot-3, 250-pound former football star who played for Northwestern in the 1996 Rose Bowl, he wasn't fazed by much. “To worry about myself, as a 44-year-old healthy man, didn’t even cross my mind,” he said in an interview Monday.

    But on March 12, with his wedding day two months away, Padgett became the patient. Soon after being admitted to his own hospital with a fever, cough and difficulty breathing, he was placed on a ventilator. Five days after that, his lungs and kidneys were failing, his heart was in trouble, and doctors figured he had a day or so to live.

    He owes his survival to an elite team of doctors who tried an experimental treatment pioneered in China and used on the sickest of all COVID-19 patients.

    Lessons from his dramatic recovery could help doctors worldwide treat other extremely ill COVID-19 patients. "This is a movie-like save, it doesn't happen in the real world often," Dr. Padgett said.

    Once his colleagues at EvergreenHealth realized they had run out of options, they called Swedish Medical Center, one of two Seattle hospitals that has a machine known as an ECMO, which replaces the functions of the heart and lungs. But even after the hospital admitted him, doctors there had to figure out why he was so profoundly sick.

    Based on the astronomical level of inflammation in his body and reports written by Chinese and Italian physicians who had treated the sickest COVID-19 patients, the doctors came to believe that it was not the disease itself killing him but his own immune system.

    It had gone haywire and began to attack itself — a syndrome known as a "cytokine storm."

    The doctors tried a drug called Actemra, which was designed to treat rheumatoid arthritis but also approved in 2017 to treat cytokine storms in cancer patients.

    Dr. Matt Hartman, a cardiologist, said that after four days on the immunosuppressive drug, supplemented by high-dose vitamin C and other therapies, the level of oxygen in Padgett's blood improved dramatically. On March 23, doctors were able to take him off life support.
    Four days later, they removed his breathing tube.

    He slowly came out of his sedated coma, at first imagining that he was in the top floor of the Space Needle converted to a COVID ward.”

     
    Just in case it’s not common knowledge yet, make sure to lie/sleep on your stomach if infected. The lungs most “active” areas are at your back; keep the backs of the lungs as free of fluid as possible.

    As for Movie theaters 🎭, I can’t help but think 2019 was their swan. As more than a few have suggested, I would guess the “big screen” experience is going to be limited to the view through a windshield. Few will risk dying for a movie, a hard sell to find anyone to think it worth even the std flu for a theater view. Unless of course today’s 15 minute test becomes tomorrow’s 15 second test, which almost has to happen if life is to revert close to what it was. You’d have to think that technology would be worth a trillion or two.

    I have been musing that drive-in theaters could make a comeback. Though they’re only good for movie watching under optimal weather conditions (no precip).

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Doubtful. 1st of all they only operate after dark (and mostly in the summer when it gets dark very late). 2nd the country is more crowded than in the days of drive ins. #3, the modern multiplex is based on a fragmented audience - we don't watch the same 3 TV stations and we don't all go to see the same movie. The multiplex has 10 screens, 9 of which can't be shown at a drive in. Drive ins could be a niche or a novelty but they are not the solution for covid.

    The obvious solution is that you just watch the movie at home. This has already been happening anyway but it will happen even more so. There is no technological need for theaters anymore. There was a SOCIAL need - a place for kids to take dates, etc. but no tech. need. Kids will have to find someplace else to hang out in a place that allows for more social distance, at least until the epidemic panic fades. Kids were NEVER at risk from this disease. They were at risk of killing their grandma's but they were never going to have anything worse than a bad cold from it.
    , @anon
    I have been musing that drive-in theaters could make a comeback.

    They already are. Just not in the same form as those of the past. The up front investment and overhead are much lower now. A screen, a vacant lot or parking lot, a modern projector, a low power radio transmitter and food delivered to the car....voila, a small business.

    This one came up in my search, but there are others across the US popping up.

    https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/03/19/pop-up-drive-in-theater-a-lifeline-for-families-restaurant-in-spring/
  167. @Reg Cæsar

    Doing that job for years would constantly expose someone to germs. They may have a stronger immunity response to it.
     
    My old job entailed frequently meeting arrivals from Tokyo, Amsterdam, and London flights and hence, by transfer, much of Asia and Africa. At physicals and other doctor's appointments, I was asked if I'd been exposed to any communicable diseases. I'd reply, are you kidding? I've been exposed to almost everything the world has to offer!

    Other than a week of laryngitis (cured with Purell; h/t Steve), I never got sick, and was quite flu-resistant all those years. But after 18 months of retirement to relative rural isolation, I got slammed with the worst illness of my life in mid-February. (Kinda early for corona, but perhaps that's what it was.)

    Is the immune system like a muscle, which can atrophy from lack of use?

    What a wonderful closing question!

    It’s a shame that you haven’t had a reply from anyone with expertise in immunology and related fields. (Perhaps they’re all scrambling to write their bids for funding to investigate?)

    Thanks.

  168. @Captain Tripps
    I have been musing that drive-in theaters could make a comeback. Though they're only good for movie watching under optimal weather conditions (no precip).

    Doubtful. 1st of all they only operate after dark (and mostly in the summer when it gets dark very late). 2nd the country is more crowded than in the days of drive ins. #3, the modern multiplex is based on a fragmented audience – we don’t watch the same 3 TV stations and we don’t all go to see the same movie. The multiplex has 10 screens, 9 of which can’t be shown at a drive in. Drive ins could be a niche or a novelty but they are not the solution for covid.

    The obvious solution is that you just watch the movie at home. This has already been happening anyway but it will happen even more so. There is no technological need for theaters anymore. There was a SOCIAL need – a place for kids to take dates, etc. but no tech. need. Kids will have to find someplace else to hang out in a place that allows for more social distance, at least until the epidemic panic fades. Kids were NEVER at risk from this disease. They were at risk of killing their grandma’s but they were never going to have anything worse than a bad cold from it.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Drive-in movie theaters were a good way to speculate on suburban land appreciation in the postwar era. For example, in "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood," Brad Pitt lives in a trailer behind the screen of the Van Nuys Drive-In where my parents would take me to movies in the in 1960s and I'd go to movies in the 1970s with high school friends.

    But, as beautiful as the Spanish Mission painting on the back of the screen looks in Tarantino's reproduction, the theater was plowed under a decade ago because real estate in Van Nuys had appreciated so much it made sense to develop the land.

  169. anon[618] • Disclaimer says:
    @Captain Tripps
    I have been musing that drive-in theaters could make a comeback. Though they're only good for movie watching under optimal weather conditions (no precip).

    I have been musing that drive-in theaters could make a comeback.

    They already are. Just not in the same form as those of the past. The up front investment and overhead are much lower now. A screen, a vacant lot or parking lot, a modern projector, a low power radio transmitter and food delivered to the car….voila, a small business.

    This one came up in my search, but there are others across the US popping up.

    https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/03/19/pop-up-drive-in-theater-a-lifeline-for-families-restaurant-in-spring/

  170. @Jack D
    Doubtful. 1st of all they only operate after dark (and mostly in the summer when it gets dark very late). 2nd the country is more crowded than in the days of drive ins. #3, the modern multiplex is based on a fragmented audience - we don't watch the same 3 TV stations and we don't all go to see the same movie. The multiplex has 10 screens, 9 of which can't be shown at a drive in. Drive ins could be a niche or a novelty but they are not the solution for covid.

    The obvious solution is that you just watch the movie at home. This has already been happening anyway but it will happen even more so. There is no technological need for theaters anymore. There was a SOCIAL need - a place for kids to take dates, etc. but no tech. need. Kids will have to find someplace else to hang out in a place that allows for more social distance, at least until the epidemic panic fades. Kids were NEVER at risk from this disease. They were at risk of killing their grandma's but they were never going to have anything worse than a bad cold from it.

    Drive-in movie theaters were a good way to speculate on suburban land appreciation in the postwar era. For example, in “Once Upon a Time in Hollywood,” Brad Pitt lives in a trailer behind the screen of the Van Nuys Drive-In where my parents would take me to movies in the in 1960s and I’d go to movies in the 1970s with high school friends.

    But, as beautiful as the Spanish Mission painting on the back of the screen looks in Tarantino’s reproduction, the theater was plowed under a decade ago because real estate in Van Nuys had appreciated so much it made sense to develop the land.

  171. @vhrm

    …If it turns out that more people died in New York City because of the CoronaPanic than because of the CoronaVirus — this before even starting to count the effects of the huge social-economic disruption (CoronaSuicides will be an easily measurable one) — what then? I wonder if the media will even report it, or, if they do, if those people will be spin-doctor’ed-away into collateral corona victims, rather than Panic victims.
     
    It probably won't be "more people" but a lot.

    Last week when NYC was having ~600 corona deaths a day an EMT Union guy complained that they had dealt with 180 cardiac arrests in people's homes in one day vs 20 on a normal day.

    In sure there will be many retrospectives on this response since it is unprecedented in scale in modern history on many different variables but there politicians will all skate because they did it "for the children" etc.

    It would be amusing to have a tribunal where all the governors, and mayors who issued shelter-in-place orders, their health officials and any cop who enforced their orders are tried and convicted for Civil Rights violations.

    They could be sentenced to various terms of house arrest (with no visitors) based on their level of contribution to the oppression, followed by longer terms of being banned from all parks and beaches. Enforced with ankle monitors.

    It would be amusing to have a tribunal where all the governors, and mayors who issued shelter-in-place orders, their health officials and any cop who enforced their orders are tried and convicted for Civil Rights violations.

    Excellent idea.

    But there is so much ruin in this nation that one hesitates to face the darkness and tally the decline at the hands of public officials.

  172. @vhrm
    a) niccce

    b) it reminded me of that story last year from DC about the brown woman who called out the black transit worker for eating on the train against the rules and learned that a lesson about who can criticize whom in the US.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/dc-metro-worker-eating-train-viral-tweet-author

    The transit Union really poured it on thick in their response. Vicky Pollard would be proud.

    It's too long to quote it all but among the excuses and deflections:
    -that the train was running late
    - that she sends her kids to DC public schools
    - that, because of the tweet, she couldn't enjoy Mother's Day
    - that there are roaches and rats in the metro system
    - that she's very sorry and embarrassed
    - ... but of actually she didn't do anything wrong because:

    Hobson added that the operator would have usually followed the rules and not eaten on the train. However, she was aware of an email that Metro Transit Police Chief Ron Pavlik had sent May 8 — just two days before Tynes' tweet — ordering transit officers to “cease and desist from issuing criminal citations in the District of Columbia for fare evasion; eating; drinking; spitting, and playing musical instruments without headphones until further advised.”

    “Understanding this email, our operator clearly was doing no wrong,” the Metro workers union said in a statement.
     

    The overall story though, both the employee eating in the train and the non-enforcement email that gets quoted soaks to out current moment to some degree about who rules are for and who would likely follow them and who wouldn't.

    …about who rules are for and who would likely follow them and who wouldn’t.

    My favorite example of this is the Mayor of Chicago who closed everything down, told people to stay inside, and then went and got her hair done.

    Unless it was free, she paid too much:

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    My favorite example of this is the Mayor of Chicago who closed everything down, told people to stay inside, and then went and got her hair done.

    Unless it was free, she paid too much:
     
    Unless she got paid, she paid too much.
  173. @Anonymous
    Instead of Flatten the Curve, how about Heighten the Serve?

    By 'serve', I mean medical service.

    If there is a pandemic looming, the government goes into Wartime Mode and vastly increases medical staff and services to treat the disease. The governments prepares for rapid rise in the Curve.

    And then, everyone(except the old and frail) is urged to go out in the streets and hug and touch everyone so the virus or whatever will spread like wildfire. Let each neighborhood have a germ-spreading block party. Open all the beaches, movie theaters, and rock concerts. At rock concerts, the stars urge everyone to shake hands and rub their faces. Put posters with message "Be warm and pass the Germ".

    Now, this will surely lead to rapid increase of the afflicted but because the SERVE has been HEIGHTENED and the state is ready to handle the hike in patients, we'll get over it much sooner.

    This way, government plays a big role but the economy doesn't have to be shut down.

    Some common sense here. Would definitely work far better than any other plan, and infinitely better than what we have now. Expanding herd immunity is the only thing that will work.

  174. @Jim Don Bob

    ...about who rules are for and who would likely follow them and who wouldn’t.
     
    My favorite example of this is the Mayor of Chicago who closed everything down, told people to stay inside, and then went and got her hair done.

    Unless it was free, she paid too much:

    https://news.wttw.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/article/image-non-gallery/AP19336687966567.jpg

    My favorite example of this is the Mayor of Chicago who closed everything down, told people to stay inside, and then went and got her hair done.

    Unless it was free, she paid too much:

    Unless she got paid, she paid too much.

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