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Mentor and Protege Lookalikes: Vannevar Bush and Claude Shannon
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I have a theory that executives tend to hire people who look like them, only younger, as their proteges. Often this quasi-nepotistic practice leads to discrimination and privilege and so forth, but sometimes it works out.

For example, one of the key American scientific public intellectuals of World War II was Vannevar Bush (1890-1974) of MIT. He co-founded Raytheon in 1922, which is a giant defense contractor today. He was dean of MIT school of engineering in the 1930s, and during WWII was more or less the top scientific advisor of the war effort, pushing for the Manhattan Project and much else.

Among other projects, Bush built analog computers during the 1920s and 1930s, such as his differential analyzer.

One of his proteges on the computing machine project was a student named Claude Shannon (1916-2001).

At age 21, Shannon wrote an epochal thesis pointing out that there was a simpler way to design electronic computing machines.

Each previous computing machine had been a tour de force of ad hoc design, but Shannon had learned in a philosophy undergrad course that in the 1850s George Boole had invented binary algebra, which would be ideal for electronic devices.

There existed an entire shelf of books working out Boolean logic, which electrical engineers could adopt wholesale.

This trillion dollar bill laying on the sidewalk probably paid for the entire 2500 year history of philosophy instruction.

The mentor Bush thought the protege Shannon was a “genius.” He was right, as a decade later in 1948, Shannon developed a second landmark idea, Information Theory.

It probably didn’t hurt that the mentor and protege were remarkably similar looking, down to the slightly smug but with good-reason half-smiles.

 
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  1. And the both lived to 84 years old.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Tony Tea

    Some what different shaped careers: Bush peaking as a manager in his 50s, Shannon peaking as a solo theoretician in his 30s. After WWII, Bell Labs moved from Greenwich Village to suburban New Jersey, but Shannon stayed behind because he liked jazz club waitresses and an empty office building to get his thinking about Information Theory done in.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Desiderius, @Johnmark, @Anonymous

  2. @Tony Tea
    And the both lived to 84 years old.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Some what different shaped careers: Bush peaking as a manager in his 50s, Shannon peaking as a solo theoretician in his 30s. After WWII, Bell Labs moved from Greenwich Village to suburban New Jersey, but Shannon stayed behind because he liked jazz club waitresses and an empty office building to get his thinking about Information Theory done in.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Steve Sailer


    Shannon stayed behind because he liked jazz club waitresses and an empty office building to get his thinking about Information Theory done in.
     
    This was the correct call.

    Suburban Jersey has all of the negatives of the NYC metro area with none of the positives.

    Also, jazz club waitresses. And cigarette girls!

    , @Desiderius
    @Steve Sailer


    he liked jazz club waitresses
     
    I have it on good authority he also breathed air and had an ear on each side of his head.
    , @Johnmark
    @Steve Sailer

    What thinker doesn't prefer an empty office building or floor? For such people, Sartre's adage is fitting: hell is other people.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    , @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    The philosopher Jerry Fodor, who was considered among the three or so most important philosophers in the world in his prime, moved from MIT to Rutgers because he needed to be in New York City for his opera habit.

    He was so important that Rutgers itself went from, well, Rutgers, to the most prestigious philosophy department in the world.

    Colin Mcginn, a leading British philosopher, moved from Oxbridge to the University of Miami of all places. He said he was tired of "second-rate" British thinkers at Oxford sitting around telling each other how smart they were and hey, the weather and amenities are nicer in Miami...


    Philosophy might be one of the only fields where if you have your pick of jobs it doesn't matter how prestigious the institution is because you don't need their resrouces. I imagine that option seems more perilous if you need to run a giant chemistry lab packed full of bright students and millions in grant money. Hey, maybe you'd rather live in the Blue Ridge mountains than Berkeley or Palo Alto but....

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Deckin

  3. Based on this theory, he should have also hired Tony Perkins, Don Adams, and Mister Rogers. And where would the Internet be then? A heap of smoking ruins?

    Considering what the Internet has done to warp human behavior in just twenty short years, maybe we should have put Maxwell Smart in charge.

  4. Look how successful Liberace’s protege (young ward?) turned out to be.

  5. Excuse me, but those “half-smiles” you speak of so approvingly are better known as “the Covington Smirk.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/25/time-take-covington-smirk/

    • Replies: @SFG
    @black sea

    He does look genuinely smirk-y in that photo. Which of course is no reason to make him and his high school into the target of the entire Internet on behalf of your b***s*** left-wing agenda. Take 100 photos of anyone over the course of a day and you can find one where they look like a jerk.

    , @Ringo Starr
    @black sea

    One thing that's not generally appreciated when you see closed-lip smiles (and for men, big moustaches and beards) in portrait photos from a few generations ago is that many people had bad teeth.
    Look at some videos from variety shows from the 1950s and 1960s (e.g., Ed Sullivan, Arthur Godfrey), when the camera resolution was starting to be good enough, and you will be amazed how many singers and other celebrities had really bad teeth (darkened, crooked, missing).
    My older dentist from my childhood used to tell me that when films and television images starting showing sufficient resolution is when people (including the public) started to be really conscious about their teeth. Bigger celebs before then, such as Sinatra, etc... wore caps (vinyl coverings), but the B-list celebrities and politicians didn't.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Bill Jones

    , @Grace Jones
    @black sea

    That's the look that adolescent males adopt in a confrontation, when they're trying to be brave when they're scared. Unfortunately, it makes bullying authority figures furious.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  6. @black sea
    Excuse me, but those "half-smiles" you speak of so approvingly are better known as "the Covington Smirk."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/25/time-take-covington-smirk/

    Replies: @SFG, @Ringo Starr, @Grace Jones

    He does look genuinely smirk-y in that photo. Which of course is no reason to make him and his high school into the target of the entire Internet on behalf of your b***s*** left-wing agenda. Take 100 photos of anyone over the course of a day and you can find one where they look like a jerk.

  7. I have a theory that executives tend to hire people who look like them, only younger, as their proteges.

    I tend to pick the smart but pretty chicks: Now you have me wondering what my real motives are

  8. I do kind of wonder if this is an ‘all WASPs look alike’ kind of thing as the country diversifies–i.e., Bush wouldn’t have thought Shannon looked so similar given the smaller white substrate he would have been comparing to at the time. I’d also bet the expression was probably more common given the ideals of reserve and professionalism hadn’t yet been eroded by the 1960s–men were serious men in those days. It’s amazing how adult people in old pictures look.

    Still, you’re almost certainly right there is some ‘paternal thing’ going on when people choose mentors and proteges. It does undoubtedly go along gender and racial lines (women mentor women, whites mentor whites, and so on), though I’d bet people here see that as less of a problem, as groups fall into niches they’re suited for. The Asian guy who helped me out in my career had a white wife and hence hapa son, so maybe half is close enough these days.

    I’ll close with another bit of Dead White Male: “He was a man. Take him for all in all. I shall not look upon his like again.”

  9. The link to Shannon is broken in my browser, so I downloaded and posted a picture of him on Imgur.

    • Thanks: Kronos
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @PiltdownMan

    Anybody else unable to see my picture of Shannon (lower down that the picture of Bush)?

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @J.Ross, @kaganovitch

  10. There existed an entire shelf of books working out Boolean logic, which electrical engineers could adopt wholesale.

    This trillion dollar bill laying on the sidewalk probably paid for the entire 2500 year history of philosophy instruction.

    A great Sailerian insight.

    • Replies: @Peter Johnson
    @slumber_j

    I had the same thought upon reading that sentence. That sentence trenchantly describes how purely theoretical research contributes to human advancement -- most of the time it wanders aimlessly, and then very occasionally stumbles upon a trillion-dollar bill lying on the pavement. A great turn on phrase with considerable insight.

    Replies: @Crawfurdmuir, @Desiderius

    , @Desiderius
    @slumber_j

    One wonders how things would have unfolded had he been more interested in Hamilton than Boole.

    Perhaps someone more schooled in such matters could tell me how unworkable that would be. I aced Digital Hardware but shortly thereafter abandoned EE for the better marriage prospects in ISyE.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @bomag

    , @PiltdownMan
    @slumber_j

    Mr. Sailer's posts are always a great read, but this short piece really sings.

    , @MBlanc46
    @slumber_j

    That makes me feel better about my philosophy degree.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  11. @slumber_j

    There existed an entire shelf of books working out Boolean logic, which electrical engineers could adopt wholesale.

    This trillion dollar bill laying on the sidewalk probably paid for the entire 2500 year history of philosophy instruction.
     
    A great Sailerian insight.

    Replies: @Peter Johnson, @Desiderius, @PiltdownMan, @MBlanc46

    I had the same thought upon reading that sentence. That sentence trenchantly describes how purely theoretical research contributes to human advancement — most of the time it wanders aimlessly, and then very occasionally stumbles upon a trillion-dollar bill lying on the pavement. A great turn on phrase with considerable insight.

    • Replies: @Crawfurdmuir
    @Peter Johnson


    I had the same thought upon reading that sentence. That sentence trenchantly describes how purely theoretical research contributes to human advancement — most of the time it wanders aimlessly, and then very occasionally stumbles upon a trillion-dollar bill lying on the pavement.
     
    As Pasteur observed, serendipity favors the prepared.

    There is a similar story about an early biologist who made diatoms his life's study. This was for years considered an example of scientific "stamp collecting" - essentially a futile exercise in gathering recondite information that was relevant to no practical purpose. Then it was determined that certain types of fossilized diatoms were often found in the vicinity of petroleum deposits.
    , @Desiderius
    @Peter Johnson

    That's well said, and it is indeed a profound insight.

    The irony being that Shannon himself doesn't seem like the wandering nor the aimless type.

    The genius of the division of labor between Art and Science.

    Shannon of course being the artist.

  12. women mentor women . . .

    I’ve seen a lot less of this than I would have once expected.

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    @black sea

    Schopenhauer said the hostility between those in the same trade (there is a terrific German composite noun for this my memory is failing on) is always present between women because all women are in the same trade. It is one of his better quips that cannot be used in mixed company.

    , @Jack D
    @black sea

    I think women more often tend to see other women as competitors and feel threatened by them. In general, the less competent are threatened by the more competent and so incompetent psychopaths that worm their way to the head of organizations makes sure to get rid of any competent people below them who might become potential rivals.

    , @Rob
    @black sea

    Historically, women had to sacrifice so much, deal with hostile cultures, and overcome so much bias to get into and climb in male professions that older women are resentful that younger women have a significantly easier time, and can expect to sacrifice much less. My hypothesis is that women will be more and more likely to mentor women as time goes on. There is also the fact that young women think older women are held back by discrimination, so a male mentor can open more doors for them than a woman can. This effect will also fade with time.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @syonredux
    @black sea


    women mentor women . . .

    I’ve seen a lot less of this than I would have once expected.
     
    Yeah, I've actually noticed quite a bit of the reverse (men mentoring women) over the years, and it's not always a romantic phenomenon. In some cases, it seems to be a surrogate daughter kind of thing (cf Steve's observation about how all those elderly White male elites embraced con woman Elizabeth Holmes as the daughter-that-I-deserved). In Michael Crichton's Disclosure, the ambitious female exec deliberately plays the role of surrogate daughter to the tech company's founder .She even subtly alters her appearance via plastic surgery in order to increase her resemblance to his deceased daughter.

    Replies: @miss marple

    , @Alfa158
    @black sea

    My wife was puzzled by this during her career. The women who she sought to be mentored by were not seriously interested, and went through the motions without providing any useful help. When she tried to mentor other women, they never followed up with getting her help. The people who provided her with useful mentoring and the people who in turn were her genuine protégés, were all men. She made friends with both men and women during her career, but there was no mentoring relationship with the women.

    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    @black sea

    I saw a coven of women form where I used to work. Its effects were incredibly deleterious.

    The amount of time they managed to waste discussing inanities in business meetings was incredible.

    Meanwhile, the just-in-time supply chain got much less timely and vendor quality took a dive.

    They managed to get great promotions for a few of their members.

  13. Thinking of the good old days, and better days at Berkeley: the once Dean of Chemistry, Mass. born Gilbert N. Lewis; discoverer of the covalent bond and much else (nominated for the Nobel 41 times) had Mass. born protege Elliot Quincy Adams of similar visage.

    “Lewis remarked that “the two most profound scientific minds, among the people he had known, were those of Elliot Q Adams and Albert Einstein.” (wiki)

  14. @black sea

    women mentor women . . .
     
    I've seen a lot less of this than I would have once expected.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Jack D, @Rob, @syonredux, @Alfa158, @The Wild Geese Howard

    Schopenhauer said the hostility between those in the same trade (there is a terrific German composite noun for this my memory is failing on) is always present between women because all women are in the same trade. It is one of his better quips that cannot be used in mixed company.

  15. Steve, do you suffer from prosopagnosia, face blindness?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosopagnosia

  16. OT:
    Vagina surgery ‘sought by girls as young as nine’
    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-40410459

    Interesting article detailing the extent of non-trans body dysphoria in certain kinds of young girls. Some of them want reconstructive surgery, some of the others say things like:

    “Girls will sometimes come out with comments like, ‘I just hate it, I just want it removed,’ and for a girl to feel that way about any part of her body – especially a part that’s intimate – is very upsetting.”

    This is all very bad and upsetting except when they declare themselves to be trans, then it’s stunning and brave and the doctor this story is painting as a feminist hero is a bigot who might face legal consequences.

    It’s fascinating to me because the fastest growing cohort of trans people are pre-teen and teenage girls. (The so-called ROGD cases) The trans ideology is so sacred that even a cohort so obviously afflicted with cluster B personality disorders and anxiety about their appearance rather than ‘having a male brain’ (The ubiquity of septum piercings among FtMs is just diagnostic and the least masculine thing imaginable.) and is using this as a maladaptive desperate coping mechanism is just sent on down the crazy road of cosmetic hormone therapy (Who cares what the other effects are) and surgical mutilation. It’s weird because we accept it is possible for a teenage girl to hate her body and want to surgically alter it as a serious mental illness that requires intervention other than surgery.

    • Replies: @Mark in BC
    @Altai

    The linked article is definitive proof (as if it was needed) that woman/girls have no understanding whatsoever of men/boys.

    I can think of no (heterosexual) male that, if given the opportunity for an up close look at a woman's privates, would complain about the view.

    Replies: @Altai

    , @bomag
    @Altai


    sent on down the crazy road of cosmetic hormone therapy... and surgical mutilation.
     
    Let's see: we're getting bombarded with opioids and other drugs; bad diets; immigrants, multi-cult, PC, etc.; porn and trashy entertainment; and now surgical mutilation in the name of therapy.

    Will the attacks ever cease?

    Replies: @SFG, @Desiderius

  17. This trillion dollar bill laying on the sidewalk probably paid for the entire 2500 year history of philosophy instruction.

    This one could light your cigar:

    • LOL: Amerimutt Golems
    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Reg Cæsar

    When inflation is so high that you need rocks to keep it down.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  18. Claude Shannon is very good looking.

    I love skinny men with sharp features.

  19. @black sea

    women mentor women . . .
     
    I've seen a lot less of this than I would have once expected.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Jack D, @Rob, @syonredux, @Alfa158, @The Wild Geese Howard

    I think women more often tend to see other women as competitors and feel threatened by them. In general, the less competent are threatened by the more competent and so incompetent psychopaths that worm their way to the head of organizations makes sure to get rid of any competent people below them who might become potential rivals.

    • Agree: Desiderius
  20. I don’t think Bush and Shannon look alike.

  21. At first I thought that this was just an overlap in the photographic portrait conventions of the time but then I googled a bunch more photos and no, they really do look quite a bit alike – they both have long tapering U shaped faces and other facial similarities, more so than any two randomly chosen WASPy guys.

    • Replies: @Rich
    @Jack D

    Shannon is an Irish name, his mother, Mabel Wolf, was German. Bush was a WASP. I guess they were both Northern Euros, but not exactly "WASPy".

    Replies: @Alfa158, @Unladen Swallow, @syonredux, @syonredux, @Coemgen

    , @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    At first I thought that this was just an overlap in the photographic portrait conventions of the time but then I googled a bunch more photos and no, they really do look quite a bit alike – they both have long tapering U shaped faces and other facial similarities, more so than any two randomly chosen WASPy guys.
     
    Perhaps he was his illegitimate son, and even if that is far fetched, then he maybe saw him as a son substitute, although he had two sons of his own.

    Perhaps in his old age he enjoyed the popular TV series starring actor Christopher Timothy.

    https://www.aveleyman.com/Gallery/2017/T/tve17151-19781021-13.jpg

    Though he did not live long enough to enjoy anything featuring versatile actor Hugh Laurie.

    https://personalliteracyprofile.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/210.gif
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    @Jack D

    What is it with the overlapping, WASPy identifications on this website?!

  22. Occam’s razor:
    So the smartest kid at MIT in the 30’s caught the eye of the MIT head of engineering, who was a successful entrepreneur and likely good at technical talent spotting.

    Occam’s butter knife:
    Because they looked similar.

    • Thanks: kaganovitch
    • LOL: Coemgen
  23. The guy making the connection between Zim — Bob — Way — In paper currency and electronic currency and sub-Saharan Africa and the globalizer financializers and the fact that over 90 percent of US dollars are electronic is hitting the mark.

    The human factor trumps the smart guys creating electronic stuff, every damn time.

    So this guy uses on or off switches to increase computing power and the bastards go off the partial gold standard in 1971 and go electronic currency. When did Dylan go electric with Goldberg and then The Band? Paul Butterfield is in there somewhere. Dylan goes electric in 1965 and Ohio Boy Nixon goes electronic currency in 1971 and it’s all because Shannon and Bush — two dead guys I don’t trust because they both had full heads of hair — started up with the electronics and the electric nonsense.

    These guys — Bush and Shannon — opened the Pandora’s box to debt-based fiat currency and the asset bubbles created by that high IQ creation has allowed the globalized ruling classes to flood European Christian nations with mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration. The greedy ones born before 1965 were bought off with asset bubbles and debt created by Bush and Shannon and their electronic currency and all the rest and the greedy ones born before 1965 kept quiet about all the foreigners flooding into their nations. Yeah, some Scottish guy Law in France and some South Sea place and some tulips and the like had their funny money asset bubbles, but this Boo — Laying logic of on or off switches has taken the cake. It’s Nighttime In The Switching Yard for the current electronically created global asset bubbles — that I can tell you.

    I don’t care what Sailer blogs about. I can always bring it back to monetary policy and baldness.

    I ain’t bitter about being bald, but I believe guys over 40 with full heads of hair have sold their souls to the Devil.

    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @Muggles
    @Charles Pewitt

    "I ain’t bitter about being bald, but I believe guys over 40 with full heads of hair have sold their souls to the Devil."

    It's genetic. Either that or the Devil is just biding his time to collect.

  24. @Altai
    OT:
    Vagina surgery 'sought by girls as young as nine'
    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-40410459

    Interesting article detailing the extent of non-trans body dysphoria in certain kinds of young girls. Some of them want reconstructive surgery, some of the others say things like:


    "Girls will sometimes come out with comments like, 'I just hate it, I just want it removed,' and for a girl to feel that way about any part of her body - especially a part that's intimate - is very upsetting."
     
    This is all very bad and upsetting except when they declare themselves to be trans, then it's stunning and brave and the doctor this story is painting as a feminist hero is a bigot who might face legal consequences.

    It's fascinating to me because the fastest growing cohort of trans people are pre-teen and teenage girls. (The so-called ROGD cases) The trans ideology is so sacred that even a cohort so obviously afflicted with cluster B personality disorders and anxiety about their appearance rather than 'having a male brain' (The ubiquity of septum piercings among FtMs is just diagnostic and the least masculine thing imaginable.) and is using this as a maladaptive desperate coping mechanism is just sent on down the crazy road of cosmetic hormone therapy (Who cares what the other effects are) and surgical mutilation. It's weird because we accept it is possible for a teenage girl to hate her body and want to surgically alter it as a serious mental illness that requires intervention other than surgery.

    Replies: @Mark in BC, @bomag

    The linked article is definitive proof (as if it was needed) that woman/girls have no understanding whatsoever of men/boys.

    I can think of no (heterosexual) male that, if given the opportunity for an up close look at a woman’s privates, would complain about the view.

    • LOL: Daniel H
    • Replies: @Altai
    @Mark in BC

    It is illustrative of something men and a lot, maybe most, women will never understand. How deep those insecurities about their bodies and appearance certain kinds of girls can be. (Maybe larger in number today with the pathological effects of social media) The existence of these feelings together with a claim that they must be transgender is taken with the utmost seriousness as grounds to proceed with SRS despite the same exact feelings without the claim being grounds to treat their feelings or accepted as being a transient condition that will diminish after adolescence. (Just like the claims of gender dysphoria in almost all studied cases)

    We don't treat cosmetic hormone therapy and SRS as an option for the treatment of transgenderism but a societal imperative. It's crazy. People use these terms 'Puberty blocker' to give it a veneer of clinical validation when these drugs were developed or tested for this purpose, they're being used entirely off-label for this and there are no good studies on the effects of cosmetic hormone therapy on adolescents. The weirdest claim is that drugs which arrest puberty have effects which are 'reversible'. Can people not understand basic science anymore? When the use of those drugs is stopped puberty resumes, but the lost time is not 'made up' later nor is the puberty that takes place the same.

    Present society is unable to ever tell a person with BPD that their perspective is utterly warped. See: Nanette.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @BB753

  25. @black sea

    women mentor women . . .
     
    I've seen a lot less of this than I would have once expected.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Jack D, @Rob, @syonredux, @Alfa158, @The Wild Geese Howard

    Historically, women had to sacrifice so much, deal with hostile cultures, and overcome so much bias to get into and climb in male professions that older women are resentful that younger women have a significantly easier time, and can expect to sacrifice much less. My hypothesis is that women will be more and more likely to mentor women as time goes on. There is also the fact that young women think older women are held back by discrimination, so a male mentor can open more doors for them than a woman can. This effect will also fade with time.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Rob


    My hypothesis is that women will be more and more likely to mentor women as time goes on.
     
    Shouldn't that be mynter? Mentor is so sexist.


    https://twokindsofintelligence.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/painting1.jpg

    There is also the fact that young women think older women are held back by discrimination...

     

    Yes, age discrimination. It's like that recent research that showed that black men were indeed getting harsher sentences than others-- but mostly because they were male.


    https://www.statepress.com/article/2016/10/spopinion-gender-disparity-in-the-criminal-justice-system#

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/women-must-face-the-same-justice-as-men-xcmcx7d5j
  26. @black sea

    women mentor women . . .
     
    I've seen a lot less of this than I would have once expected.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Jack D, @Rob, @syonredux, @Alfa158, @The Wild Geese Howard

    women mentor women . . .

    I’ve seen a lot less of this than I would have once expected.

    Yeah, I’ve actually noticed quite a bit of the reverse (men mentoring women) over the years, and it’s not always a romantic phenomenon. In some cases, it seems to be a surrogate daughter kind of thing (cf Steve’s observation about how all those elderly White male elites embraced con woman Elizabeth Holmes as the daughter-that-I-deserved). In Michael Crichton’s Disclosure, the ambitious female exec deliberately plays the role of surrogate daughter to the tech company’s founder .She even subtly alters her appearance via plastic surgery in order to increase her resemblance to his deceased daughter.

    • Replies: @miss marple
    @syonredux

    I've noticed that Asian males often want to horn in on such arrangements even if the substitute daughter is more suitable as white daddy's adopted heir. I can't figure out if this is the result of envy without the pride that would inhibit the display of it (not wanting to be seen as wanting to be daddy's little girl) or if there's perhaps some sexual fixation that young Asian males have on older white males.

  27. I’m surprised none of you geniuses has speculated that Shannon might have been Bush’s illegitimate offspring. It was not uncommon to provide for such unauthorized heirs; wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

  28. For example, one of the key American scientific public intellectuals of World War II was Vannevar Bush (1890-1974) of MIT. He co-founded Raytheon in 1922, which is a giant defense contractor today. He was dean of MIT school of engineering in the 1930s, and during WWII was more or less the top scientific advisor of the war effort, pushing for the Manhattan Project and much else.

    In 1945, Vannevar Bush wrote the visionary essay “As We May Think.” It was published in The Atlantic. Of course, that was back when it was a serious magazine, not a WOKE fanzine…..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_We_May_Think

    Bush’s memex:

    The memex (originally coined “at random”,[1] though sometimes said to be a portmanteau of “memory” and “index”[2]) is the name of the hypothetical proto-hypertext system that Vannevar Bush described in his 1945 The Atlantic Monthly article “As We May Think”. Bush envisioned the memex as a device in which individuals would compress and store all of their books, records, and communications, “mechanized so that it may be consulted with exceeding speed and flexibility”. The memex would provide an “enlarged intimate supplement to one’s memory”.[3] The concept of the memex influenced the development of early hypertext systems (eventually leading to the creation of the World Wide Web) and personal knowledge base software.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memex

  29. @syonredux
    @black sea


    women mentor women . . .

    I’ve seen a lot less of this than I would have once expected.
     
    Yeah, I've actually noticed quite a bit of the reverse (men mentoring women) over the years, and it's not always a romantic phenomenon. In some cases, it seems to be a surrogate daughter kind of thing (cf Steve's observation about how all those elderly White male elites embraced con woman Elizabeth Holmes as the daughter-that-I-deserved). In Michael Crichton's Disclosure, the ambitious female exec deliberately plays the role of surrogate daughter to the tech company's founder .She even subtly alters her appearance via plastic surgery in order to increase her resemblance to his deceased daughter.

    Replies: @miss marple

    I’ve noticed that Asian males often want to horn in on such arrangements even if the substitute daughter is more suitable as white daddy’s adopted heir. I can’t figure out if this is the result of envy without the pride that would inhibit the display of it (not wanting to be seen as wanting to be daddy’s little girl) or if there’s perhaps some sexual fixation that young Asian males have on older white males.

  30. Anon[134] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    In the Los Angeles Times a headline caught my eye:

    Native women are vanishing across the U.S. Inside an aunt’s desperate search for her niece

    https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-01-31/murdered-missing-native-american-women

    1. This seems to have spread from Canada, where for years there has been a fake news conspiracy that First Nations women are being attacked and killed. It has resulted in legislation and in one of those patented Canadian Inquisition-style tribunals.

    2. But wait, Trump in involved. In November he signed this weird executive order:

    Executive Order on Establishing the Task Force on Missing and Murdered American Indians and Alaska Natives

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-establishing-task-force-missing-murdered-american-indians-alaska-natives/

    3. The punchline to the Canadian stuff is that it sort of turned out in the end that First Nations guys were beating up and killing First Nations gals. This is being ignored however and the beat goes on with the tribunals and the calls for action.

    Back to the L.A. Times: The headlined poster girl in the article is an Aubrey Dameron, a 25-year-old statuesque damsel, 5-10. And there’s a photo, very large forehead, Neanderthal brow (maybe Native American women have that?). Still …

    Yikes, paragraph 18, casually in passing, “Dameron, a transgender woman.” The article briefly detours to some LGBT stuff, but then is back to this Native American problem.

    There’s a weirdly New York Times vibe to the piece. It’s not what it seems unless you read it upside down, and there is a “fake trend” smell to the Native American Genocide theme … but the Trump angle spins it into clownsville. What is going on, if anything?

  31. @Jack D
    At first I thought that this was just an overlap in the photographic portrait conventions of the time but then I googled a bunch more photos and no, they really do look quite a bit alike - they both have long tapering U shaped faces and other facial similarities, more so than any two randomly chosen WASPy guys.

    Replies: @Rich, @Jonathan Mason, @Buzz Mohawk

    Shannon is an Irish name, his mother, Mabel Wolf, was German. Bush was a WASP. I guess they were both Northern Euros, but not exactly “WASPy”.

    • Replies: @Alfa158
    @Rich

    WASP or WASPy is used as a euphemism for White. You’ll notice that “White Man” has become such a bogeyman term that it is often expressed as “white male” to dilute the power of its evil juju.

    Replies: @Rich

    , @Unladen Swallow
    @Rich

    I believe Shannon was distantly related to Edison, I don't know on what side of his family, but on Wikipedia it just says they were "distant cousins".

    Replies: @Rapparee, @Old Palo Altan

    , @syonredux
    @Rich


    Shannon is an Irish name, his mother, Mabel Wolf, was German. Bush was a WASP. I guess they were both Northern Euros, but not exactly “WASPy”.
     
    From what I've read, the Irish blood must have been quite remote, as Shannon's ancestors are described as going back to the colonial period, and included Puritans like John Ogden:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ogden_(colonist)


    Is "Wolf" always a German surname? Ancestry.com says that it can be English, Danish, or German:

    Wolf Name Meaning
    English, Danish, and German: from a short form of the various Germanic compound names with a first element wolf ‘wolf’, or a byname or nickname with this meaning. The wolf was native throughout the forests of Europe, including Britain, until comparatively recently. In ancient and medieval times it played an important role in Germanic mythology, being regarded as one of the sacred beasts of Woden. This name is widespread throughout northern, central, and eastern Europe, as well as in Britain and German-speaking countries. German: habitational name for someone living at a house distinguished by the sign of a wolf, Middle High German wolf. Jewish (Ashkenazic): from the Yiddish male personal name Volf meaning ‘wolf’, which is associated with the Hebrew personal name Binyamin (see Benjamin). This association stems from Jacob’s dying words ‘Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil’ (Genesis 49:27).
     
    https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=wolf



    Also, there's a strong tendency to lump everyone of Protestant Old American ancestry into the WASP category.

    Replies: @Rich

    , @syonredux
    @Rich


    Shannon is an Irish name, his mother, Mabel Wolf, was German. Bush was a WASP. I guess they were both Northern Euros, but not exactly “WASPy”.
     
    A fair number of WASPs have Irish names. For example, there's the Kane family:

    Samuel Nicholson Kane (July 2, 1846 – November 15, 1906) was an American soldier and sailor prominent in New York Society during the Gilded Age who served as the Commodore of New York Yacht Club.[1]
     

    Kane was born on July 2, 1846 in New York City.[1] He was one of eight children born to Oliver DeLancey Kane (1816–1874) and Louisa Dorothea (née Langdon) Kane (1821–1894). His brothers were Walter Langdon Kane, DeLancey Astor Kane,[2] John Innes Kane, Woodbury Kane.[3] His sisters were Louisa Langdon Kane,[4] Emily Astor Kane (who married Augustus Jay and was the mother of Peter Augustus Jay), and Sybil Kent Kane.[5][6]
     

    He was the grandson of Walter Langdon and Dorothea (née Astor) Langdon and the great-grandson of John Jacob Astor. He was a cousin of Lt. Col. John Jacob Astor IV.[2] His paternal lineage descended from John O'Kane who emigrated to the country in 1752 from County Londonderry and Antrim, Ireland. During the American Revolutionary War, O'Kane (who dropped the "'O" once in America[7]) was living at Sharyvogne, his estate in Dutchess County, which was confiscated after the War due to his Loyalist times. His eldest son, John Jr., stayed and became one of the most prominent merchants in New York.[2]

     


    The family lived at "Beach Cliffe", designed by Detlef Lienau, which was one the earliest Newport cottages "to attain a sort of Beaux-Arts purity."[8][a] After prep school in New York, Kane attended and graduated from the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis, Maryland in June 1866. After his service in the Navy, he entered Cambridge University in England where he graduated in 1873. After returning the United States, he studied law at Albany Law School.[1]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._Nicholson_Kane

    DeLancey Astor Kane (August 28, 1844 – April 4, 1915) was an American soldier and horseman who was prominent in New York Society during the Gilded Age.[1] He was called the "father of coaching in the United States."[2]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeLancey_Astor_Kane

    Woodbury Kane (February 8, 1859 – December 5, 1905)[1] was a noted yachtsman and bon vivant, and member of Theodore Roosevelt's Rough Riders. A director of the Metropolitan Register Company, Kane served aboard the Columbia in the 1899 America's Cup race. He also was a noted hunter of big game, both in North America and South Africa.
     

    He was a member of the New York Yacht Club (for many years serving on the club's America's Cup committee), the Metropolitan Club, the Knickerbocker Club, the Racquet Court Club, the Seawanhaka Corinthian Yacht Club, the Meadowbrook Hunt Club, the Hudson River Ice Yacht Club, the Larchmont Club, and the Yacht and Country Club.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodbury_Kane

    Sybil Kent Kane (1856 – February 15, 1946) was an American socialite who was prominent in New York Society during the Gilded Age.[1]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_Kent_Kane
    , @Coemgen
    @Rich

    There is a Wikipedia article regarding the surname Shannon. The article indicates the name derives from the Gaelic for "skilled storyteller." Plausible, I guess. An illiterate traditional storyteller would need to have had an exceptional memory. Remembering Boole's work well enough to apply to a completely unrelated field may have required an exceptional memory.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

  32. @Reg Cæsar

    This trillion dollar bill laying on the sidewalk probably paid for the entire 2500 year history of philosophy instruction.
     
    This one could light your cigar:


    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81BU1wksDAL._AC_SX450_.jpg

    Replies: @Kronos

    When inflation is so high that you need rocks to keep it down.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Kronos


    When inflation is so high that you need rocks to keep it down.
     
    The going price for these notes is all over the map.


    I wonder where it will settle.

  33. The saga of the sacred hair…

    Shampoo, repeat.

    A few weeks ago, as I walked through security at the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport, a T.S.A. agent grabbed onto my braids and snapped them like reins. “Giddy up!” she said.

    I’m a Native American woman, and my hair is part of my spirit. The woman treated me like a horse.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/opinion/super-bowl-chiefs-native-american.html

    • Replies: @Anon
    @candid_observer

    The earlier reports said the TSA agent was a woman. I wonder ... A black woman? They seem to be disproportionate represented in the TSA.

    A black woman touching a native woman's hair would be a dog bites man story, and wouldn't further the narrative. Especially since the black woman may have though the native was white.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    , @Lurker
    @candid_observer


    a T.S.A. agent grabbed onto my braids and snapped them like reins. “Giddy up!” she said.
     
    Hard to believe this is true. Other than in her mind. And of course we're supposed to imagine a white male agent in this story.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  34. @Steve Sailer
    @Tony Tea

    Some what different shaped careers: Bush peaking as a manager in his 50s, Shannon peaking as a solo theoretician in his 30s. After WWII, Bell Labs moved from Greenwich Village to suburban New Jersey, but Shannon stayed behind because he liked jazz club waitresses and an empty office building to get his thinking about Information Theory done in.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Desiderius, @Johnmark, @Anonymous

    Shannon stayed behind because he liked jazz club waitresses and an empty office building to get his thinking about Information Theory done in.

    This was the correct call.

    Suburban Jersey has all of the negatives of the NYC metro area with none of the positives.

    Also, jazz club waitresses. And cigarette girls!

  35. @black sea

    women mentor women . . .
     
    I've seen a lot less of this than I would have once expected.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Jack D, @Rob, @syonredux, @Alfa158, @The Wild Geese Howard

    My wife was puzzled by this during her career. The women who she sought to be mentored by were not seriously interested, and went through the motions without providing any useful help. When she tried to mentor other women, they never followed up with getting her help. The people who provided her with useful mentoring and the people who in turn were her genuine protégés, were all men. She made friends with both men and women during her career, but there was no mentoring relationship with the women.

  36. @black sea

    women mentor women . . .
     
    I've seen a lot less of this than I would have once expected.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Jack D, @Rob, @syonredux, @Alfa158, @The Wild Geese Howard

    I saw a coven of women form where I used to work. Its effects were incredibly deleterious.

    The amount of time they managed to waste discussing inanities in business meetings was incredible.

    Meanwhile, the just-in-time supply chain got much less timely and vendor quality took a dive.

    They managed to get great promotions for a few of their members.

  37. @Rich
    @Jack D

    Shannon is an Irish name, his mother, Mabel Wolf, was German. Bush was a WASP. I guess they were both Northern Euros, but not exactly "WASPy".

    Replies: @Alfa158, @Unladen Swallow, @syonredux, @syonredux, @Coemgen

    WASP or WASPy is used as a euphemism for White. You’ll notice that “White Man” has become such a bogeyman term that it is often expressed as “white male” to dilute the power of its evil juju.

    • Replies: @Rich
    @Alfa158

    I don't know, WASPs are a very specific ethnicity where I'm from in NY. A Shannon or a Wolf or a Van Dyke or a Schmitt or a Ferarro or a Boucher, no matter how pale, would never be called a WASP. It may be different in other parts of the country. I know that in the Southwest we were all Anglos when I was in the Army and just Whites down South. WASP always had an upper class English connotation to me, but I suppose it could have changed.

    Replies: @syonredux

  38. @Jack D
    At first I thought that this was just an overlap in the photographic portrait conventions of the time but then I googled a bunch more photos and no, they really do look quite a bit alike - they both have long tapering U shaped faces and other facial similarities, more so than any two randomly chosen WASPy guys.

    Replies: @Rich, @Jonathan Mason, @Buzz Mohawk

    At first I thought that this was just an overlap in the photographic portrait conventions of the time but then I googled a bunch more photos and no, they really do look quite a bit alike – they both have long tapering U shaped faces and other facial similarities, more so than any two randomly chosen WASPy guys.

    Perhaps he was his illegitimate son, and even if that is far fetched, then he maybe saw him as a son substitute, although he had two sons of his own.

    Perhaps in his old age he enjoyed the popular TV series starring actor Christopher Timothy.

    Though he did not live long enough to enjoy anything featuring versatile actor Hugh Laurie.

  39. Another factor could be that in the early part of the 20th century, men were much thinner in general than they are today, and so would have appeared more similar to our modern eyes than they did to each other.

  40. Just think what might have happened if instead, he’d chosen to mentor HP Lovecraft.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Research gets buried because of fear of summoning Cthulhu?

    "The most merciful thing about the human mind, I think, is its inability to correlate all its contents..."

    , @Hunsdon
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I'm glad I wasn't the only one who had that thought.

  41. @Rich
    @Jack D

    Shannon is an Irish name, his mother, Mabel Wolf, was German. Bush was a WASP. I guess they were both Northern Euros, but not exactly "WASPy".

    Replies: @Alfa158, @Unladen Swallow, @syonredux, @syonredux, @Coemgen

    I believe Shannon was distantly related to Edison, I don’t know on what side of his family, but on Wikipedia it just says they were “distant cousins”.

    • Replies: @Rapparee
    @Unladen Swallow

    My great-aunt (on the Mayflower-American side, not the Irish side) once made some offhanded comments about a relative of ours from Michigan who was involved in the early development of computers in the '30s and '40s. I naturally wondered if she might be referring to Shannon, but extensive genealogical research hasn't turned anything up yet, and I don't think the dates really fit based on other parts of her story. It was kind of amusing to think about for five minutes, though.

    , @Old Palo Altan
    @Unladen Swallow

    Quick research on Ancestry.com makes it clear that the connection must be on the father's side - his mother's parents were both born in Germany.

    The father's ancestry is entirely New Jersey-based for well over one hundred years. One of the ancestral names is Potter, probably the state's leading family historically, but his "branch", if it be one, is not from the main prosperous and eminent line of Signers and governors and senators, but from one of modest cultivators. The Shannon name goes back to the middle of the 18th century in New Jersey, so the chances are more than good that, even if originally from Ireland, the family would have been Protestant. One source has them as a family originally Scottish which travelled over to Ireland in the middle of the 17th century, and then first to Pennsylvania and quintessentially Scotch-Irish territory there, and then up into New Jersey. A very typical trajectory for families of this sort.

    So: an honorary WASP, to Bush's perfect exemplar.

  42. Anon[163] • Disclaimer says:
    @candid_observer
    The saga of the sacred hair...

    Shampoo, repeat.


    A few weeks ago, as I walked through security at the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport, a T.S.A. agent grabbed onto my braids and snapped them like reins. “Giddy up!” she said.

    I’m a Native American woman, and my hair is part of my spirit. The woman treated me like a horse.
     

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/opinion/super-bowl-chiefs-native-american.html

    Replies: @Anon, @Lurker

    The earlier reports said the TSA agent was a woman. I wonder … A black woman? They seem to be disproportionate represented in the TSA.

    A black woman touching a native woman’s hair would be a dog bites man story, and wouldn’t further the narrative. Especially since the black woman may have though the native was white.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Anon

    In her tweet the offended N.A. makes sure to specify it was a blonde woman.

  43. @candid_observer
    The saga of the sacred hair...

    Shampoo, repeat.


    A few weeks ago, as I walked through security at the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport, a T.S.A. agent grabbed onto my braids and snapped them like reins. “Giddy up!” she said.

    I’m a Native American woman, and my hair is part of my spirit. The woman treated me like a horse.
     

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/opinion/super-bowl-chiefs-native-american.html

    Replies: @Anon, @Lurker

    a T.S.A. agent grabbed onto my braids and snapped them like reins. “Giddy up!” she said.

    Hard to believe this is true. Other than in her mind. And of course we’re supposed to imagine a white male agent in this story.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Lurker

    Plus, as much defensive censorship and damage control as the mass media runs for criminal government agencies, there's absolutely no way the TSA of all entities could get away with this. The TSA is both hated and unimportant, and for a while there all the media attention most critical of the government was griping about TSA airport screeners.

  44. Speaking of Raytheon, our Chinabros are hard at work selling out heritage America:

    https://qz.com/1795127/raytheon-engineer-arrested-for-taking-us-missile-defense-secrets-to-china/

    I hope that Mr. Sun is much better at engineering than espionage.

  45. @Kronos
    @Reg Cæsar

    When inflation is so high that you need rocks to keep it down.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    When inflation is so high that you need rocks to keep it down.

    The going price for these notes is all over the map.

    I wonder where it will settle.

  46. @Rich
    @Jack D

    Shannon is an Irish name, his mother, Mabel Wolf, was German. Bush was a WASP. I guess they were both Northern Euros, but not exactly "WASPy".

    Replies: @Alfa158, @Unladen Swallow, @syonredux, @syonredux, @Coemgen

    Shannon is an Irish name, his mother, Mabel Wolf, was German. Bush was a WASP. I guess they were both Northern Euros, but not exactly “WASPy”.

    From what I’ve read, the Irish blood must have been quite remote, as Shannon’s ancestors are described as going back to the colonial period, and included Puritans like John Ogden:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ogden_(colonist)

    Is “Wolf” always a German surname? Ancestry.com says that it can be English, Danish, or German:

    Wolf Name Meaning
    English, Danish, and German: from a short form of the various Germanic compound names with a first element wolf ‘wolf’, or a byname or nickname with this meaning. The wolf was native throughout the forests of Europe, including Britain, until comparatively recently. In ancient and medieval times it played an important role in Germanic mythology, being regarded as one of the sacred beasts of Woden. This name is widespread throughout northern, central, and eastern Europe, as well as in Britain and German-speaking countries. German: habitational name for someone living at a house distinguished by the sign of a wolf, Middle High German wolf. Jewish (Ashkenazic): from the Yiddish male personal name Volf meaning ‘wolf’, which is associated with the Hebrew personal name Binyamin (see Benjamin). This association stems from Jacob’s dying words ‘Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil’ (Genesis 49:27).

    https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=wolf

    Also, there’s a strong tendency to lump everyone of Protestant Old American ancestry into the WASP category.

    • Replies: @Rich
    @syonredux

    Shannon's maternal grandparents were from Germany.

  47. @Rich
    @Jack D

    Shannon is an Irish name, his mother, Mabel Wolf, was German. Bush was a WASP. I guess they were both Northern Euros, but not exactly "WASPy".

    Replies: @Alfa158, @Unladen Swallow, @syonredux, @syonredux, @Coemgen

    Shannon is an Irish name, his mother, Mabel Wolf, was German. Bush was a WASP. I guess they were both Northern Euros, but not exactly “WASPy”.

    A fair number of WASPs have Irish names. For example, there’s the Kane family:

    Samuel Nicholson Kane (July 2, 1846 – November 15, 1906) was an American soldier and sailor prominent in New York Society during the Gilded Age who served as the Commodore of New York Yacht Club.[1]

    Kane was born on July 2, 1846 in New York City.[1] He was one of eight children born to Oliver DeLancey Kane (1816–1874) and Louisa Dorothea (née Langdon) Kane (1821–1894). His brothers were Walter Langdon Kane, DeLancey Astor Kane,[2] John Innes Kane, Woodbury Kane.[3] His sisters were Louisa Langdon Kane,[4] Emily Astor Kane (who married Augustus Jay and was the mother of Peter Augustus Jay), and Sybil Kent Kane.[5][6]

    He was the grandson of Walter Langdon and Dorothea (née Astor) Langdon and the great-grandson of John Jacob Astor. He was a cousin of Lt. Col. John Jacob Astor IV.[2] His paternal lineage descended from John O’Kane who emigrated to the country in 1752 from County Londonderry and Antrim, Ireland. During the American Revolutionary War, O’Kane (who dropped the “‘O” once in America[7]) was living at Sharyvogne, his estate in Dutchess County, which was confiscated after the War due to his Loyalist times. His eldest son, John Jr., stayed and became one of the most prominent merchants in New York.[2]

    The family lived at “Beach Cliffe”, designed by Detlef Lienau, which was one the earliest Newport cottages “to attain a sort of Beaux-Arts purity.”[8][a] After prep school in New York, Kane attended and graduated from the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis, Maryland in June 1866. After his service in the Navy, he entered Cambridge University in England where he graduated in 1873. After returning the United States, he studied law at Albany Law School.[1]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._Nicholson_Kane

    DeLancey Astor Kane (August 28, 1844 – April 4, 1915) was an American soldier and horseman who was prominent in New York Society during the Gilded Age.[1] He was called the “father of coaching in the United States.”[2]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeLancey_Astor_Kane

    Woodbury Kane (February 8, 1859 – December 5, 1905)[1] was a noted yachtsman and bon vivant, and member of Theodore Roosevelt’s Rough Riders. A director of the Metropolitan Register Company, Kane served aboard the Columbia in the 1899 America’s Cup race. He also was a noted hunter of big game, both in North America and South Africa.

    He was a member of the New York Yacht Club (for many years serving on the club’s America’s Cup committee), the Metropolitan Club, the Knickerbocker Club, the Racquet Court Club, the Seawanhaka Corinthian Yacht Club, the Meadowbrook Hunt Club, the Hudson River Ice Yacht Club, the Larchmont Club, and the Yacht and Country Club.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodbury_Kane

    Sybil Kent Kane (1856 – February 15, 1946) was an American socialite who was prominent in New York Society during the Gilded Age.[1]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_Kent_Kane

  48. @Rob
    @black sea

    Historically, women had to sacrifice so much, deal with hostile cultures, and overcome so much bias to get into and climb in male professions that older women are resentful that younger women have a significantly easier time, and can expect to sacrifice much less. My hypothesis is that women will be more and more likely to mentor women as time goes on. There is also the fact that young women think older women are held back by discrimination, so a male mentor can open more doors for them than a woman can. This effect will also fade with time.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    My hypothesis is that women will be more and more likely to mentor women as time goes on.

    Shouldn’t that be mynter? Mentor is so sexist.

    There is also the fact that young women think older women are held back by discrimination…

    Yes, age discrimination. It’s like that recent research that showed that black men were indeed getting harsher sentences than others– but mostly because they were male.

    https://www.statepress.com/article/2016/10/spopinion-gender-disparity-in-the-criminal-justice-system#

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/women-must-face-the-same-justice-as-men-xcmcx7d5j

  49. Vannevar Bush may have shared his physical appearance with another person but his name certainly is distinctive. A Google search for “Vannevar” leads to just one other hit, for Vannevar Thomas, but Mr. Thomas is a fictional character in some sort of vampire story.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @prosa123

    Well there you are, a dead end. Absolutely nothing to look further into. I don't know about you but I'm going to get some sleep. Sleep is very natural in these cold winter months and it's a neglected part of the health and nutritional response to modernity. After lean protein and the avoidance of processed foods really the best thing any of us can do for ourselves to to make the scheduling space for a proper napping.

  50. OT:

    With the announcement that Trump is adding more countries to the travel ban, I wonder if the media will refer to those countries as majority sh*t hole countries?

    NYT: “Mr. Trump has made disparaging comments about African nations in the past, complaining that Nigerians who entered the United States on visas would never “go back to their huts.’ “

  51. @Altai
    OT:
    Vagina surgery 'sought by girls as young as nine'
    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-40410459

    Interesting article detailing the extent of non-trans body dysphoria in certain kinds of young girls. Some of them want reconstructive surgery, some of the others say things like:


    "Girls will sometimes come out with comments like, 'I just hate it, I just want it removed,' and for a girl to feel that way about any part of her body - especially a part that's intimate - is very upsetting."
     
    This is all very bad and upsetting except when they declare themselves to be trans, then it's stunning and brave and the doctor this story is painting as a feminist hero is a bigot who might face legal consequences.

    It's fascinating to me because the fastest growing cohort of trans people are pre-teen and teenage girls. (The so-called ROGD cases) The trans ideology is so sacred that even a cohort so obviously afflicted with cluster B personality disorders and anxiety about their appearance rather than 'having a male brain' (The ubiquity of septum piercings among FtMs is just diagnostic and the least masculine thing imaginable.) and is using this as a maladaptive desperate coping mechanism is just sent on down the crazy road of cosmetic hormone therapy (Who cares what the other effects are) and surgical mutilation. It's weird because we accept it is possible for a teenage girl to hate her body and want to surgically alter it as a serious mental illness that requires intervention other than surgery.

    Replies: @Mark in BC, @bomag

    sent on down the crazy road of cosmetic hormone therapy… and surgical mutilation.

    Let’s see: we’re getting bombarded with opioids and other drugs; bad diets; immigrants, multi-cult, PC, etc.; porn and trashy entertainment; and now surgical mutilation in the name of therapy.

    Will the attacks ever cease?

    • Replies: @SFG
    @bomag

    " The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and reveling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom."

    Replies: @Desiderius

    , @Desiderius
    @bomag

    Technically we’re not. That’s all for keeping out the riff-raff. We’re just fonder if the riff-raff than our peers or in a position to appreciate the collateral damage.

  52. @Jack D
    At first I thought that this was just an overlap in the photographic portrait conventions of the time but then I googled a bunch more photos and no, they really do look quite a bit alike - they both have long tapering U shaped faces and other facial similarities, more so than any two randomly chosen WASPy guys.

    Replies: @Rich, @Jonathan Mason, @Buzz Mohawk

    What is it with the overlapping, WASPy identifications on this website?!

  53. @Lurker
    @candid_observer


    a T.S.A. agent grabbed onto my braids and snapped them like reins. “Giddy up!” she said.
     
    Hard to believe this is true. Other than in her mind. And of course we're supposed to imagine a white male agent in this story.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Plus, as much defensive censorship and damage control as the mass media runs for criminal government agencies, there’s absolutely no way the TSA of all entities could get away with this. The TSA is both hated and unimportant, and for a while there all the media attention most critical of the government was griping about TSA airport screeners.

  54. @prosa123
    Vannevar Bush may have shared his physical appearance with another person but his name certainly is distinctive. A Google search for "Vannevar" leads to just one other hit, for Vannevar Thomas, but Mr. Thomas is a fictional character in some sort of vampire story.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Well there you are, a dead end. Absolutely nothing to look further into. I don’t know about you but I’m going to get some sleep. Sleep is very natural in these cold winter months and it’s a neglected part of the health and nutritional response to modernity. After lean protein and the avoidance of processed foods really the best thing any of us can do for ourselves to to make the scheduling space for a proper napping.

    • Agree: BB753
  55. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Just think what might have happened if instead, he'd chosen to mentor HP Lovecraft.

    Replies: @SFG, @Hunsdon

    Research gets buried because of fear of summoning Cthulhu?

    “The most merciful thing about the human mind, I think, is its inability to correlate all its contents…”

    • LOL: Old Palo Altan
  56. @bomag
    @Altai


    sent on down the crazy road of cosmetic hormone therapy... and surgical mutilation.
     
    Let's see: we're getting bombarded with opioids and other drugs; bad diets; immigrants, multi-cult, PC, etc.; porn and trashy entertainment; and now surgical mutilation in the name of therapy.

    Will the attacks ever cease?

    Replies: @SFG, @Desiderius

    ” The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and reveling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom.”

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @SFG

    Some joy.

    I see plenty here, but not from folks into all that nonsense. Other than my boys, but they’re two.

  57. @Steve Sailer
    @Tony Tea

    Some what different shaped careers: Bush peaking as a manager in his 50s, Shannon peaking as a solo theoretician in his 30s. After WWII, Bell Labs moved from Greenwich Village to suburban New Jersey, but Shannon stayed behind because he liked jazz club waitresses and an empty office building to get his thinking about Information Theory done in.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Desiderius, @Johnmark, @Anonymous

    he liked jazz club waitresses

    I have it on good authority he also breathed air and had an ear on each side of his head.

  58. @Unladen Swallow
    @Rich

    I believe Shannon was distantly related to Edison, I don't know on what side of his family, but on Wikipedia it just says they were "distant cousins".

    Replies: @Rapparee, @Old Palo Altan

    My great-aunt (on the Mayflower-American side, not the Irish side) once made some offhanded comments about a relative of ours from Michigan who was involved in the early development of computers in the ’30s and ’40s. I naturally wondered if she might be referring to Shannon, but extensive genealogical research hasn’t turned anything up yet, and I don’t think the dates really fit based on other parts of her story. It was kind of amusing to think about for five minutes, though.

  59. @SFG
    @bomag

    " The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and reveling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom."

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Some joy.

    I see plenty here, but not from folks into all that nonsense. Other than my boys, but they’re two.

  60. @bomag
    @Altai


    sent on down the crazy road of cosmetic hormone therapy... and surgical mutilation.
     
    Let's see: we're getting bombarded with opioids and other drugs; bad diets; immigrants, multi-cult, PC, etc.; porn and trashy entertainment; and now surgical mutilation in the name of therapy.

    Will the attacks ever cease?

    Replies: @SFG, @Desiderius

    Technically we’re not. That’s all for keeping out the riff-raff. We’re just fonder if the riff-raff than our peers or in a position to appreciate the collateral damage.

  61. @Peter Johnson
    @slumber_j

    I had the same thought upon reading that sentence. That sentence trenchantly describes how purely theoretical research contributes to human advancement -- most of the time it wanders aimlessly, and then very occasionally stumbles upon a trillion-dollar bill lying on the pavement. A great turn on phrase with considerable insight.

    Replies: @Crawfurdmuir, @Desiderius

    I had the same thought upon reading that sentence. That sentence trenchantly describes how purely theoretical research contributes to human advancement — most of the time it wanders aimlessly, and then very occasionally stumbles upon a trillion-dollar bill lying on the pavement.

    As Pasteur observed, serendipity favors the prepared.

    There is a similar story about an early biologist who made diatoms his life’s study. This was for years considered an example of scientific “stamp collecting” – essentially a futile exercise in gathering recondite information that was relevant to no practical purpose. Then it was determined that certain types of fossilized diatoms were often found in the vicinity of petroleum deposits.

  62. So Steve – your theory here is mentors pick would be sons….aka….”he reminds me of me when I was that age…..”

  63. @Alfa158
    @Rich

    WASP or WASPy is used as a euphemism for White. You’ll notice that “White Man” has become such a bogeyman term that it is often expressed as “white male” to dilute the power of its evil juju.

    Replies: @Rich

    I don’t know, WASPs are a very specific ethnicity where I’m from in NY. A Shannon or a Wolf or a Van Dyke or a Schmitt or a Ferarro or a Boucher, no matter how pale, would never be called a WASP. It may be different in other parts of the country. I know that in the Southwest we were all Anglos when I was in the Army and just Whites down South. WASP always had an upper class English connotation to me, but I suppose it could have changed.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Rich


    WASP always had an upper class English connotation to me, but I suppose it could have changed.
     
    WASPs come in various flavors:

    Haute-WASP:



    https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/henry-adams-3.png

    https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/5/22/116165983-.jpg

    http://jssgallery.org/Paintings/Mr_and_Mrs_John_Phelps_Stokes/Mr_and_Mrs_John_Phelps_Stokes.jpg


    Bas-WASP:





    http://songmango.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/California-country-okies-guitar.jpg




    https://www.webportal.com/caraveo/ditchbank_okies_port.jpg


    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/17/a8/73/17a873a6aa0fa5190640c5f3f1cf5529--tough-times-hard-times.jpg


    Plus everything in between.....

    . A Shannon or a Wolf or a Van Dyke or a Schmitt or a Ferarro or a Boucher, no matter how pale, would never be called a WASP.

     

    I can definitely see a Wolf, a Van Dyke,a Boucher, or a Shannon getting called a WASP.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Rich, @Old Palo Altan

  64. This leads into an even more interesting topic: Owners that look like their pets:

    • LOL: Kronos
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @MikeatMikedotMike


    This leads into an even more interesting topic: Owners that look like their pets:
     
    That is because humans did not evolve from apes. Humans evolved from dogs.
  65. @Rich
    @Alfa158

    I don't know, WASPs are a very specific ethnicity where I'm from in NY. A Shannon or a Wolf or a Van Dyke or a Schmitt or a Ferarro or a Boucher, no matter how pale, would never be called a WASP. It may be different in other parts of the country. I know that in the Southwest we were all Anglos when I was in the Army and just Whites down South. WASP always had an upper class English connotation to me, but I suppose it could have changed.

    Replies: @syonredux

    WASP always had an upper class English connotation to me, but I suppose it could have changed.

    WASPs come in various flavors:

    Haute-WASP:

    Bas-WASP:

    Plus everything in between…..

    . A Shannon or a Wolf or a Van Dyke or a Schmitt or a Ferarro or a Boucher, no matter how pale, would never be called a WASP.

    I can definitely see a Wolf, a Van Dyke,a Boucher, or a Shannon getting called a WASP.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @syonredux

    The W stands for wealthy.

    Irish, Dutch, and Italian are neither Angle nor Saxon. I suppose a Hessian might have an argument, though many of those were and are Catholics.

    Replies: @syonredux, @syonredux

    , @Rich
    @syonredux

    The Irish guys I grew up with in Queens would probably fight you if you called them Wasps, and the Dutch and French are pretty proud of not being Waspish. As for the Germans, I believe they've got a bit of pride in their own heritage and aren't all fans of the Wasps. But I guess it's just a matter of where you're from. Do you really think the descendants of the Scots in one of your photos, or the poor Okies would ever have really been called Wasps by anyone? The one ethnic group that fought tooth and nail to become Waspish, were the Jews, who've now supplanted them in many of the positions of power the Wasps once held.

    Replies: @syonredux

    , @Old Palo Altan
    @syonredux

    Henry Adams, President Eliot, and Isaac Newton Phelps Stokes painted by Sargent - excellent choices, every one.

    But the others are poor white trash, and not part of the picture.

  66. @Mark in BC
    @Altai

    The linked article is definitive proof (as if it was needed) that woman/girls have no understanding whatsoever of men/boys.

    I can think of no (heterosexual) male that, if given the opportunity for an up close look at a woman's privates, would complain about the view.

    Replies: @Altai

    It is illustrative of something men and a lot, maybe most, women will never understand. How deep those insecurities about their bodies and appearance certain kinds of girls can be. (Maybe larger in number today with the pathological effects of social media) The existence of these feelings together with a claim that they must be transgender is taken with the utmost seriousness as grounds to proceed with SRS despite the same exact feelings without the claim being grounds to treat their feelings or accepted as being a transient condition that will diminish after adolescence. (Just like the claims of gender dysphoria in almost all studied cases)

    We don’t treat cosmetic hormone therapy and SRS as an option for the treatment of transgenderism but a societal imperative. It’s crazy. People use these terms ‘Puberty blocker’ to give it a veneer of clinical validation when these drugs were developed or tested for this purpose, they’re being used entirely off-label for this and there are no good studies on the effects of cosmetic hormone therapy on adolescents. The weirdest claim is that drugs which arrest puberty have effects which are ‘reversible’. Can people not understand basic science anymore? When the use of those drugs is stopped puberty resumes, but the lost time is not ‘made up’ later nor is the puberty that takes place the same.

    Present society is unable to ever tell a person with BPD that their perspective is utterly warped. See: Nanette.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Altai

    All y’all had better pull your heads out of your asses on this nonsense or you won’t just get passed up by Chinks and Dot Indians, but Hillbillies and Bible thumpers too!

    , @BB753
    @Altai

    This Nanette?

    https://youtu.be/5aE29fiatQ0

    Replies: @Altai

  67. @PiltdownMan
    The link to Shannon is broken in my browser, so I downloaded and posted a picture of him on Imgur.

    https://i.imgur.com/uVOMQ3p.jpg

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Anybody else unable to see my picture of Shannon (lower down that the picture of Bush)?

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Steve Sailer

    No, I cannot see it in Firefox or in Microsoft Edge. Just a blank rectangle and clicking on it the following message.

    403. That’s an error.

    Your client does not have permission to get URL /proxy/N1TLL9SWqWwZEa_8p_DAjBGyeiQZ1bGw_oS7T0iUu9e5b_FtOiZvJyz2CFLOnnYoVAZiPWISoT8FtPecC8NM4Eaq0M_ogCCD_wu0c5hzz-5Z8r6adsLGMHQEN-D8Sw from this server. (Client IP address: 7x.192.xx.xx)

    Forbidden That’s all we know.

    , @J.Ross
    @Steve Sailer

    Ditto Mason's 403 with Brave and Opera.

    , @kaganovitch
    @Steve Sailer

    I get same 403 error. I use opera browser

  68. @Steve Sailer
    @PiltdownMan

    Anybody else unable to see my picture of Shannon (lower down that the picture of Bush)?

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @J.Ross, @kaganovitch

    No, I cannot see it in Firefox or in Microsoft Edge. Just a blank rectangle and clicking on it the following message.

    403. That’s an error.

    Your client does not have permission to get URL /proxy/N1TLL9SWqWwZEa_8p_DAjBGyeiQZ1bGw_oS7T0iUu9e5b_FtOiZvJyz2CFLOnnYoVAZiPWISoT8FtPecC8NM4Eaq0M_ogCCD_wu0c5hzz-5Z8r6adsLGMHQEN-D8Sw from this server. (Client IP address: 7x.192.xx.xx)

    Forbidden That’s all we know.

  69. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Just think what might have happened if instead, he'd chosen to mentor HP Lovecraft.

    Replies: @SFG, @Hunsdon

    I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who had that thought.

  70. @syonredux
    @Rich


    WASP always had an upper class English connotation to me, but I suppose it could have changed.
     
    WASPs come in various flavors:

    Haute-WASP:



    https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/henry-adams-3.png

    https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/5/22/116165983-.jpg

    http://jssgallery.org/Paintings/Mr_and_Mrs_John_Phelps_Stokes/Mr_and_Mrs_John_Phelps_Stokes.jpg


    Bas-WASP:





    http://songmango.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/California-country-okies-guitar.jpg




    https://www.webportal.com/caraveo/ditchbank_okies_port.jpg


    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/17/a8/73/17a873a6aa0fa5190640c5f3f1cf5529--tough-times-hard-times.jpg


    Plus everything in between.....

    . A Shannon or a Wolf or a Van Dyke or a Schmitt or a Ferarro or a Boucher, no matter how pale, would never be called a WASP.

     

    I can definitely see a Wolf, a Van Dyke,a Boucher, or a Shannon getting called a WASP.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Rich, @Old Palo Altan

    The W stands for wealthy.

    Irish, Dutch, and Italian are neither Angle nor Saxon. I suppose a Hessian might have an argument, though many of those were and are Catholics.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Desiderius


    The W stands for wealthy.

    Irish, Dutch, and Italian are neither Angle nor Saxon. I suppose a Hessian might have an argument, though many of those were and are Catholics.
     
    The "W" stands for White: White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.


    As for more expansive definitions:

    Sociologists sometimes use the term very broadly to include all Protestant Americans of Northern European or Northwestern European ancestry regardless of their class or power.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestant

    Replies: @Desiderius

    , @syonredux
    @Desiderius

    And there's at least one Italian-derived family in the USA that count as WASPs:


    Taliaferro (/ˈtɒlɪvər/ TOL-i-vər), also spelled Talliaferro, Tagliaferro, Talifero, or Taliferro and sometimes anglicised to Tellifero, Tolliver or Toliver,[1] is a prominent family in eastern Virginia and Maryland. The Taliaferros (originally Tagliaferro, Italian pronunciation: [ˌtaʎʎaˈfɛrro], which means "ironcutter" in Italian) are one of the early families who settled in Virginia in the 17th century. They migrated from London, where an ancestor had served as a musician in the court of Queen Elizabeth I. The surname in that line is believed to trace back to Bartholomew Taliaferro, a native of Venice who settled in London and was made a denizen in 1562.[2]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliaferro

    Richard Taliaferro ( /ˈtɒlɪvər/ TOL-i-vər; c. 1705–1779) was a colonial architect and builder in Williamsburg, Virginia, in what is now the United States. Among his works is Wythe House, a Georgian-style building that was built in 1750 or 1755. It was declared a U.S. National Historic Landmark in 1970.[1][2][3][4] Other works were public buildings, including the Governor's Palace, the Capitol, and the President's House at the College of William & Mary.[5]
     

    Richard Taliaferro was born about 1705 to an Anglo-Italian family, the Taliaferros, who had settled in Virginia in the early 17th century from London. He lived most of his adult life at his plantation, Powhatan, in James City County outside Williamsburg. Taliaferro built the Wythe House in Williamsburg for his daughter, Elizabeth, and her husband, George Wythe.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Taliaferro


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wythe_House


    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_djGvTLbafFQ/THmrDKsrSRI/AAAAAAAABZw/zpmlRMe-BMM/s1600/Wythe+House+rear+yard.jpg

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Rich

  71. @Altai
    @Mark in BC

    It is illustrative of something men and a lot, maybe most, women will never understand. How deep those insecurities about their bodies and appearance certain kinds of girls can be. (Maybe larger in number today with the pathological effects of social media) The existence of these feelings together with a claim that they must be transgender is taken with the utmost seriousness as grounds to proceed with SRS despite the same exact feelings without the claim being grounds to treat their feelings or accepted as being a transient condition that will diminish after adolescence. (Just like the claims of gender dysphoria in almost all studied cases)

    We don't treat cosmetic hormone therapy and SRS as an option for the treatment of transgenderism but a societal imperative. It's crazy. People use these terms 'Puberty blocker' to give it a veneer of clinical validation when these drugs were developed or tested for this purpose, they're being used entirely off-label for this and there are no good studies on the effects of cosmetic hormone therapy on adolescents. The weirdest claim is that drugs which arrest puberty have effects which are 'reversible'. Can people not understand basic science anymore? When the use of those drugs is stopped puberty resumes, but the lost time is not 'made up' later nor is the puberty that takes place the same.

    Present society is unable to ever tell a person with BPD that their perspective is utterly warped. See: Nanette.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @BB753

    All y’all had better pull your heads out of your asses on this nonsense or you won’t just get passed up by Chinks and Dot Indians, but Hillbillies and Bible thumpers too!

  72. @syonredux
    @Rich


    WASP always had an upper class English connotation to me, but I suppose it could have changed.
     
    WASPs come in various flavors:

    Haute-WASP:



    https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/henry-adams-3.png

    https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/5/22/116165983-.jpg

    http://jssgallery.org/Paintings/Mr_and_Mrs_John_Phelps_Stokes/Mr_and_Mrs_John_Phelps_Stokes.jpg


    Bas-WASP:





    http://songmango.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/California-country-okies-guitar.jpg




    https://www.webportal.com/caraveo/ditchbank_okies_port.jpg


    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/17/a8/73/17a873a6aa0fa5190640c5f3f1cf5529--tough-times-hard-times.jpg


    Plus everything in between.....

    . A Shannon or a Wolf or a Van Dyke or a Schmitt or a Ferarro or a Boucher, no matter how pale, would never be called a WASP.

     

    I can definitely see a Wolf, a Van Dyke,a Boucher, or a Shannon getting called a WASP.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Rich, @Old Palo Altan

    The Irish guys I grew up with in Queens would probably fight you if you called them Wasps, and the Dutch and French are pretty proud of not being Waspish. As for the Germans, I believe they’ve got a bit of pride in their own heritage and aren’t all fans of the Wasps. But I guess it’s just a matter of where you’re from. Do you really think the descendants of the Scots in one of your photos, or the poor Okies would ever have really been called Wasps by anyone? The one ethnic group that fought tooth and nail to become Waspish, were the Jews, who’ve now supplanted them in many of the positions of power the Wasps once held.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Rich


    The Irish guys I grew up with in Queens would probably fight you if you called them Wasps,
     
    Prole Catholics. The "Irish" that I'm thinking of are descended from long-settled Protestants.Cf Woodbury Kane:

    http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-1529-0-45724500-1386884164.jpg

    and the Dutch and French are pretty proud of not being Waspish.
     
    Long-settled Dutch and (Protestant) French have largely been absorbed into WASP-dom:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delano_family


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du_Pont_family


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Rensselaer_(family)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_family

    As for the Germans, I believe they’ve got a bit of pride in their own heritage and aren’t all fans of the Wasps.
     
    Ditto for Protestant Germans whose roots date back to the 18th century. They've been absorbed into WASP-dom:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astor_family

    Do you really think the descendants of the Scots in one of your photos, or the poor Okies would ever have really been called Wasps by anyone?

     

    Sure. In the USA, Anglo-Saxons and Scots are, to use a law school term, a distinction without a difference.

    Replies: @Rich

  73. Shannon looks Jewish. Maybe I’m just saying that because he looks a little bit like me, and I’m half jewish.

  74. @Steve Sailer
    @PiltdownMan

    Anybody else unable to see my picture of Shannon (lower down that the picture of Bush)?

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @J.Ross, @kaganovitch

    Ditto Mason’s 403 with Brave and Opera.

  75. @Charles Pewitt
    The guy making the connection between Zim -- Bob -- Way -- In paper currency and electronic currency and sub-Saharan Africa and the globalizer financializers and the fact that over 90 percent of US dollars are electronic is hitting the mark.

    The human factor trumps the smart guys creating electronic stuff, every damn time.

    So this guy uses on or off switches to increase computing power and the bastards go off the partial gold standard in 1971 and go electronic currency. When did Dylan go electric with Goldberg and then The Band? Paul Butterfield is in there somewhere. Dylan goes electric in 1965 and Ohio Boy Nixon goes electronic currency in 1971 and it's all because Shannon and Bush -- two dead guys I don't trust because they both had full heads of hair -- started up with the electronics and the electric nonsense.

    These guys -- Bush and Shannon -- opened the Pandora's box to debt-based fiat currency and the asset bubbles created by that high IQ creation has allowed the globalized ruling classes to flood European Christian nations with mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration. The greedy ones born before 1965 were bought off with asset bubbles and debt created by Bush and Shannon and their electronic currency and all the rest and the greedy ones born before 1965 kept quiet about all the foreigners flooding into their nations. Yeah, some Scottish guy Law in France and some South Sea place and some tulips and the like had their funny money asset bubbles, but this Boo -- Laying logic of on or off switches has taken the cake. It's Nighttime In The Switching Yard for the current electronically created global asset bubbles -- that I can tell you.

    I don't care what Sailer blogs about. I can always bring it back to monetary policy and baldness.

    I ain't bitter about being bald, but I believe guys over 40 with full heads of hair have sold their souls to the Devil.

    Replies: @Muggles

    “I ain’t bitter about being bald, but I believe guys over 40 with full heads of hair have sold their souls to the Devil.”

    It’s genetic. Either that or the Devil is just biding his time to collect.

  76. @Anon
    @candid_observer

    The earlier reports said the TSA agent was a woman. I wonder ... A black woman? They seem to be disproportionate represented in the TSA.

    A black woman touching a native woman's hair would be a dog bites man story, and wouldn't further the narrative. Especially since the black woman may have though the native was white.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    In her tweet the offended N.A. makes sure to specify it was a blonde woman.

  77. @Steve Sailer
    @PiltdownMan

    Anybody else unable to see my picture of Shannon (lower down that the picture of Bush)?

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @J.Ross, @kaganovitch

    I get same 403 error. I use opera browser

  78. @Peter Johnson
    @slumber_j

    I had the same thought upon reading that sentence. That sentence trenchantly describes how purely theoretical research contributes to human advancement -- most of the time it wanders aimlessly, and then very occasionally stumbles upon a trillion-dollar bill lying on the pavement. A great turn on phrase with considerable insight.

    Replies: @Crawfurdmuir, @Desiderius

    That’s well said, and it is indeed a profound insight.

    The irony being that Shannon himself doesn’t seem like the wandering nor the aimless type.

    The genius of the division of labor between Art and Science.

    Shannon of course being the artist.

  79. @Altai
    @Mark in BC

    It is illustrative of something men and a lot, maybe most, women will never understand. How deep those insecurities about their bodies and appearance certain kinds of girls can be. (Maybe larger in number today with the pathological effects of social media) The existence of these feelings together with a claim that they must be transgender is taken with the utmost seriousness as grounds to proceed with SRS despite the same exact feelings without the claim being grounds to treat their feelings or accepted as being a transient condition that will diminish after adolescence. (Just like the claims of gender dysphoria in almost all studied cases)

    We don't treat cosmetic hormone therapy and SRS as an option for the treatment of transgenderism but a societal imperative. It's crazy. People use these terms 'Puberty blocker' to give it a veneer of clinical validation when these drugs were developed or tested for this purpose, they're being used entirely off-label for this and there are no good studies on the effects of cosmetic hormone therapy on adolescents. The weirdest claim is that drugs which arrest puberty have effects which are 'reversible'. Can people not understand basic science anymore? When the use of those drugs is stopped puberty resumes, but the lost time is not 'made up' later nor is the puberty that takes place the same.

    Present society is unable to ever tell a person with BPD that their perspective is utterly warped. See: Nanette.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @BB753

    This Nanette?

    • Replies: @Altai
    @BB753

    Yes. She bemoans her mental illness, actually lashes out at those who she deems 'romanticise it' (You need to spend time off Tumblr Hannah, normal people don't do that) and thinks nothing good can come from it.

    Her principal problem is PTSD and anxiety from sexual abuse. (She says) So she bemoans her PTSD and it's effects on her and how bad it is to have a mental illness then berates the audience for the next 2 hours about how she has anxiety when in the presence of men, how all men are rapists and dangerous. It would be like a soldier with PTSD who is triggered by the noise of a helicopter calling all helicopters dangerous and berating helicopter pilots for being enemy combatants.

    Does she not notice that other women aren't afraid of all men and that this PTSD is the nature of her mental health problems? If all men were dangerous rapists her irrational anxiety and fear of them wouldn't be a mental health problem.

    Replies: @BB753

  80. @slumber_j

    There existed an entire shelf of books working out Boolean logic, which electrical engineers could adopt wholesale.

    This trillion dollar bill laying on the sidewalk probably paid for the entire 2500 year history of philosophy instruction.
     
    A great Sailerian insight.

    Replies: @Peter Johnson, @Desiderius, @PiltdownMan, @MBlanc46

    One wonders how things would have unfolded had he been more interested in Hamilton than Boole.

    Perhaps someone more schooled in such matters could tell me how unworkable that would be. I aced Digital Hardware but shortly thereafter abandoned EE for the better marriage prospects in ISyE.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Desiderius

    One wonders how things would have unfolded had he been more interested
    in Hamilton than Boole.

    We would have been spared knowing who Lin Miranda is ?

    Replies: @Desiderius

    , @bomag
    @Desiderius

    One wonders how things would have unfolded had he been more interested in Hamilton than Boole.

    You have to walk before you can run: Boole is walking; Hamilton is running. I don't think it would have unfolded differently.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  81. @Rich
    @Jack D

    Shannon is an Irish name, his mother, Mabel Wolf, was German. Bush was a WASP. I guess they were both Northern Euros, but not exactly "WASPy".

    Replies: @Alfa158, @Unladen Swallow, @syonredux, @syonredux, @Coemgen

    There is a Wikipedia article regarding the surname Shannon. The article indicates the name derives from the Gaelic for “skilled storyteller.” Plausible, I guess. An illiterate traditional storyteller would need to have had an exceptional memory. Remembering Boole’s work well enough to apply to a completely unrelated field may have required an exceptional memory.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Coemgen


    There is a Wikipedia article regarding the surname Shannon. The article indicates the name derives from the Gaelic for “skilled storyteller.”
     
    Maybe so, but there is a River Shannon in Ireland, which is the longest river in Ireland.

    http://discovertheshannon.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Drumsna.jpg

    Surnames are often the names of rivers, though George Orwell became a river by choice, not birth, being born a Blair.

    Replies: @Coemgen

  82. @BB753
    @Altai

    This Nanette?

    https://youtu.be/5aE29fiatQ0

    Replies: @Altai

    Yes. She bemoans her mental illness, actually lashes out at those who she deems ‘romanticise it’ (You need to spend time off Tumblr Hannah, normal people don’t do that) and thinks nothing good can come from it.

    Her principal problem is PTSD and anxiety from sexual abuse. (She says) So she bemoans her PTSD and it’s effects on her and how bad it is to have a mental illness then berates the audience for the next 2 hours about how she has anxiety when in the presence of men, how all men are rapists and dangerous. It would be like a soldier with PTSD who is triggered by the noise of a helicopter calling all helicopters dangerous and berating helicopter pilots for being enemy combatants.

    Does she not notice that other women aren’t afraid of all men and that this PTSD is the nature of her mental health problems? If all men were dangerous rapists her irrational anxiety and fear of them wouldn’t be a mental health problem.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Altai

    She claims she was raped back in Tasmania several times for being a lesbian. I find it dubious that even Tasmanian men would rape such an unattractive and obnoxious woman. A beating would be more likely.
    Also, she probably has daddy issues.

  83. @Desiderius
    @slumber_j

    One wonders how things would have unfolded had he been more interested in Hamilton than Boole.

    Perhaps someone more schooled in such matters could tell me how unworkable that would be. I aced Digital Hardware but shortly thereafter abandoned EE for the better marriage prospects in ISyE.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @bomag

    One wonders how things would have unfolded had he been more interested
    in Hamilton than Boole.

    We would have been spared knowing who Lin Miranda is ?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @kaganovitch

    William Rowan Hamilton. My son's namesake.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternion

  84. @Altai
    @BB753

    Yes. She bemoans her mental illness, actually lashes out at those who she deems 'romanticise it' (You need to spend time off Tumblr Hannah, normal people don't do that) and thinks nothing good can come from it.

    Her principal problem is PTSD and anxiety from sexual abuse. (She says) So she bemoans her PTSD and it's effects on her and how bad it is to have a mental illness then berates the audience for the next 2 hours about how she has anxiety when in the presence of men, how all men are rapists and dangerous. It would be like a soldier with PTSD who is triggered by the noise of a helicopter calling all helicopters dangerous and berating helicopter pilots for being enemy combatants.

    Does she not notice that other women aren't afraid of all men and that this PTSD is the nature of her mental health problems? If all men were dangerous rapists her irrational anxiety and fear of them wouldn't be a mental health problem.

    Replies: @BB753

    She claims she was raped back in Tasmania several times for being a lesbian. I find it dubious that even Tasmanian men would rape such an unattractive and obnoxious woman. A beating would be more likely.
    Also, she probably has daddy issues.

  85. @kaganovitch
    @Desiderius

    One wonders how things would have unfolded had he been more interested
    in Hamilton than Boole.

    We would have been spared knowing who Lin Miranda is ?

    Replies: @Desiderius

    William Rowan Hamilton. My son’s namesake.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternion

  86. anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:

    “This trillion dollar bill laying on the sidewalk probably paid for the entire 2500 year history of philosophy instruction.”

    I worked with a philosopher who was VERY smart and VERY into this weird, esoteric notion of “dialethic logic.”

    Wiki: “Dialetheism (from Greek δίς dís ‘twice’ and ἀλήθεια alḗtheia ‘truth’) is the view that there are statements which are both true and false. More precisely, it is the belief that there can be a true statement whose negation is also true. Such statements are called “true contradictions”, dialetheia, or nondualisms.

    Dialetheism is not a system of formal logic; instead, it is a thesis about truth that influences the construction of a formal logic, often based on pre-existing systems. Introducing dialetheism has various consequences, depending on the theory into which it is introduced”

    So, uhh, the point is to reject Aristotle’s law of non-contradiction where if you say A is true you can’t also be positing that A is NOT true at the same time….well, Aristotle’s understanding of logic seems pretty reasonable–but that’s the thing about intellectual history; there have been a lot of cases where something seemed pretty reasonable but it turned out something weirder was true.

    What I find interesting about this little dialethic logic club is that both people I knew who worked on it were really fucking sharp and both were really fucking passionate about it…and both of them failed to get other people interested in it. I had the reaction most people had when they tried to teach me about it:

    At first I didn’t know what it was, then they explained it to me, and then I was baffled because there seemed to be no payoff. “Uhhh, ok, now I see what you did. You constructed a new, operationally functional logical system that doesn’t include the law of non-contradiction. And then what? You just perform this little magic trick and finish by saying ‘The Aristocrats!’?”

    This always stuck with me because in my experience it was very rare to run into smart professionals who completely failed to get anyone on their side of their pet issue. But nobody could understand why they cared so much about their little toy logical system.

    Now, here’s the proposed payoff: one of these guys tried to convince me by saying he thought this would be eventually useful in describing, in a technical way, how human consciousness worked. His view–and he had worked on AI in in important computer science labs–was that AI had failed because the type of logic we used for computers and circuits was wildly successful in certain areas but just not capable of modeling consciousness because it lacked this ability to account for true contradictions. He’s almost certainly wrong but….there’s always that 0.001% chance someone will pick up this logic they’ve been working out the math for and find a way to use it for something major.

    So, philosophers are still doing this kind of important work that may be dropping sadly neglected trillion dollar bills on dirty sidewalks. I’ve never encountered someone in STEM who was familiar with these esoteric, dialethic logics. Never. And I’ve asked. It’s not even popular in its own subfields of philosophy. So maybe the right person just hasn’t discovered it yet.

    Possible analogy:

    Modal logic was only developed in the 20th century and turned out to be a serious, useful thing (modal logic includes symbols for possibility instead of just is/is not). One time a great philosopher, Hilary Putnam (who had a background in math) was talking to the major architect of modal logic, Saul Kripke (who also had a background in math–Laurence Tribe once said the reason he became a law professor was because he was the second smartest person in his undergraduate math major at Harvard but the number one person in his class, Kripke, was comically, depressingly, incredibly smarter than him).

    Actually, Hilary Putnam could probably relate to that since he was the second smartest person his class at a public high school in Philadelphia (identity of number one left as an exercise for the reader). He told me one time he didn’t think he was that smart since that person at his high school was so smuch smarter but once he started at an Ivy League college he just thought, “This is it? None of these people are as smart as the guy I grew up with in my shitty neighborhood…”.

    These are guys who did very technical work but some of their conversations might be the type of thing that makes people like Mr. Sailer think philosophy is silly. So Putnam asked Kripke, “Is it possible that glass bottles are just tigers? What if, when tigers become scared, they suddenly transform into glass bottles? Is that logically possible?’ Kripke’s answer was, “No. That is not possible. But….it is possible that it could *become* possible” This is how philosophy is done, and it normally appears to be pointless to lay people but…you never know.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @anonymous
    @anonymous

    I know we have a lot of smart Math/CS/Physics people here, some of whom are either retired or just interested in doing weird research in their spare time that will probably not pay off. If you're one of those people, I can put you into contact with these philosophers who are developing this logical system.


    They would love to talk to someone who is open-minded about it and understands their background because they mostly just get blank stares in their daily lives. I know two who are really good guys and very smart.

    If you're someone who can follow arguments about formal math in set theory, arguments about AI computer programming [ie, one of them was a LISP programmer in a couple of major university labs in the 80s and 90s], arguments about formal logic, etc. and you might be willing to take a shot at a probable dead end by trying this out and potentially claiming the biggest intellectual prize in world history--figuring out human cognition--then let me know.

    My anonymous email is "i pat its" at protonmail (no spaces or quotation marks in my name and protonmail is a dot-com domain)

    Replies: @Desiderius, @candid_observer, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    , @Jack D
    @anonymous

    Chomsky.

    "None of these people are as smart as the guy I grew up with in my shitty neighborhood…”

    Not everyone goes to high school with Chomsky. And Central has been Philadelphia's magnet school since 1836 and in that era was full of poor but smart (mostly Jewish) kids so it was not like this was just some neighborhood ghetto school.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  87. @slumber_j

    There existed an entire shelf of books working out Boolean logic, which electrical engineers could adopt wholesale.

    This trillion dollar bill laying on the sidewalk probably paid for the entire 2500 year history of philosophy instruction.
     
    A great Sailerian insight.

    Replies: @Peter Johnson, @Desiderius, @PiltdownMan, @MBlanc46

    Mr. Sailer’s posts are always a great read, but this short piece really sings.

  88. @slumber_j

    There existed an entire shelf of books working out Boolean logic, which electrical engineers could adopt wholesale.

    This trillion dollar bill laying on the sidewalk probably paid for the entire 2500 year history of philosophy instruction.
     
    A great Sailerian insight.

    Replies: @Peter Johnson, @Desiderius, @PiltdownMan, @MBlanc46

    That makes me feel better about my philosophy degree.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @MBlanc46

    Love of wisdom never goes unrequited.

  89. @black sea
    Excuse me, but those "half-smiles" you speak of so approvingly are better known as "the Covington Smirk."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/25/time-take-covington-smirk/

    Replies: @SFG, @Ringo Starr, @Grace Jones

    One thing that’s not generally appreciated when you see closed-lip smiles (and for men, big moustaches and beards) in portrait photos from a few generations ago is that many people had bad teeth.
    Look at some videos from variety shows from the 1950s and 1960s (e.g., Ed Sullivan, Arthur Godfrey), when the camera resolution was starting to be good enough, and you will be amazed how many singers and other celebrities had really bad teeth (darkened, crooked, missing).
    My older dentist from my childhood used to tell me that when films and television images starting showing sufficient resolution is when people (including the public) started to be really conscious about their teeth. Bigger celebs before then, such as Sinatra, etc… wore caps (vinyl coverings), but the B-list celebrities and politicians didn’t.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    @Ringo Starr

    A photo of Woodrow Wilson at his 1913 inauguration shows very bad teeth:

    https://doctorzebra.com/prez/z_x28teeth_g.htm

    , @Bill Jones
    @Ringo Starr

    The late Queen Mum in the YUK had bad teeth Dunno what her excuse was.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan, @Anonymous

  90. @Steve Sailer
    @Tony Tea

    Some what different shaped careers: Bush peaking as a manager in his 50s, Shannon peaking as a solo theoretician in his 30s. After WWII, Bell Labs moved from Greenwich Village to suburban New Jersey, but Shannon stayed behind because he liked jazz club waitresses and an empty office building to get his thinking about Information Theory done in.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Desiderius, @Johnmark, @Anonymous

    What thinker doesn’t prefer an empty office building or floor? For such people, Sartre’s adage is fitting: hell is other people.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Johnmark

    What thinker doesn’t prefer an empty office building or floor? For such people, Sartre’s adage is fitting: hell is other people.

    John von Neumann for one. Von Neumann notoriously preferred a very noisy, chaotic environment for thinking.

  91. @Desiderius
    @slumber_j

    One wonders how things would have unfolded had he been more interested in Hamilton than Boole.

    Perhaps someone more schooled in such matters could tell me how unworkable that would be. I aced Digital Hardware but shortly thereafter abandoned EE for the better marriage prospects in ISyE.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @bomag

    One wonders how things would have unfolded had he been more interested in Hamilton than Boole.

    You have to walk before you can run: Boole is walking; Hamilton is running. I don’t think it would have unfolded differently.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @bomag

    Is Steve is right Shannon was born running.

  92. Boole is a man whose accomplishments are not adequately recognised (although having an important variable type named after you is pretty fucking cool); his wife was also a very clever lady (albeit a bit of a nutter in a typically educated-19th-century way) and his five daughters were all accomplished women (two of them STEM subject-experts in their own right).

    Why, it’s almost as if genuinely-talented women – even autodidacts – had little problem finding their way in the horrible oppressive patriarchy of 1850s England.

    But that couldn’t possibly be right: as we all know, bustles and bonnets and frilly collars are basically the same as burqas, and these women were living right slap bang in the middle of an epochal burgeoning of (mostly-almost-but-sometimes-actual) science – the knowledge domain of evil white evil men (evil evil) and their OCD about evil evidence-based ‘facts’ (things that don’t change, regardless of how strongly you feel about it).

    Also…

    Y’know them things we all did with string and nails (usually making parabolic sections)? Like this picture, only with little brads as anchors and strings for lines)

    When done with nails and string, that’s “curve stitching” – something that Mrs Boole recommended as a way to interest kiddies in geometry. (I was not that interested in it when I first encountered it at school: I was already interested in symbolic geometry, so it just struck me as slightly-smart-arse macramé-with-nails).

    Skilled exponents can make some really cool patterns – like this one, from enthusiast Lionel Deimel ->

    And of course it’s easy these days to do it using computer graphics rather than string/nails/board or pencil/ruler/paper.

    Either way, it’s so fucking racist and transphobic – it should obviously be outlawed.

    SNATCH BLOCK!

    (That’s my new ‘thing so say’ – and just like Peter Griffin saying “Road House“, it will last for about 30 minutes.

    See, I just took delivery of several snatch blocks – which reminded me of a terrific YouTube video about Snatch Blocks where the dude says “Snatch Block!” a lot).

  93. @black sea
    Excuse me, but those "half-smiles" you speak of so approvingly are better known as "the Covington Smirk."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/25/time-take-covington-smirk/

    Replies: @SFG, @Ringo Starr, @Grace Jones

    That’s the look that adolescent males adopt in a confrontation, when they’re trying to be brave when they’re scared. Unfortunately, it makes bullying authority figures furious.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Grace Jones


    bullying authority figures
     
    Like Savannah Guthrie.

    What Lauer et. al. did to that woman is a tragedy.
  94. Other instances of philosophy inspiring people working in modern fields:

    Noam Chomsky has said he thought contemporary linguistics/psychology when he started working in the field was fatally flawed but he had to go back to much older philosophical texts to develop his concept of what precisely was lacking.

    He specifically referenced von Humboldt, the British neo-platonists, and even titled a book, “Cartesian Linguistics.”

    When he talks about his continental Enlightenment influences he is trying to convey what he thought he was doing what was not completely new but a technical development of branches on the tree that had just been neglected for 150 years or so.

    He talked about this because he wasn’t taught these things but had to do his own personal research project on Enlightenment intellectuals to see they were working on the same ideas he had. He also said they simply lacked the technical tools to tackle the problems in the same way he was because he was only able to develop modern linguistics because he was using mathematics to construct his theories that had only recently become available (ie, in his lifetime–sometimes from people he personally knew and had helped to develop)

  95. anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous
    "This trillion dollar bill laying on the sidewalk probably paid for the entire 2500 year history of philosophy instruction."

    I worked with a philosopher who was VERY smart and VERY into this weird, esoteric notion of "dialethic logic."

    Wiki: "Dialetheism (from Greek δίς dís 'twice' and ἀλήθεια alḗtheia 'truth') is the view that there are statements which are both true and false. More precisely, it is the belief that there can be a true statement whose negation is also true. Such statements are called "true contradictions", dialetheia, or nondualisms.

    Dialetheism is not a system of formal logic; instead, it is a thesis about truth that influences the construction of a formal logic, often based on pre-existing systems. Introducing dialetheism has various consequences, depending on the theory into which it is introduced"

    So, uhh, the point is to reject Aristotle's law of non-contradiction where if you say A is true you can't also be positing that A is NOT true at the same time....well, Aristotle's understanding of logic seems pretty reasonable--but that's the thing about intellectual history; there have been a lot of cases where something seemed pretty reasonable but it turned out something weirder was true.

    What I find interesting about this little dialethic logic club is that both people I knew who worked on it were really fucking sharp and both were really fucking passionate about it...and both of them failed to get other people interested in it. I had the reaction most people had when they tried to teach me about it:

    At first I didn't know what it was, then they explained it to me, and then I was baffled because there seemed to be no payoff. "Uhhh, ok, now I see what you did. You constructed a new, operationally functional logical system that doesn't include the law of non-contradiction. And then what? You just perform this little magic trick and finish by saying 'The Aristocrats!'?"

    This always stuck with me because in my experience it was very rare to run into smart professionals who completely failed to get anyone on their side of their pet issue. But nobody could understand why they cared so much about their little toy logical system.

    Now, here's the proposed payoff: one of these guys tried to convince me by saying he thought this would be eventually useful in describing, in a technical way, how human consciousness worked. His view--and he had worked on AI in in important computer science labs--was that AI had failed because the type of logic we used for computers and circuits was wildly successful in certain areas but just not capable of modeling consciousness because it lacked this ability to account for true contradictions. He's almost certainly wrong but....there's always that 0.001% chance someone will pick up this logic they've been working out the math for and find a way to use it for something major.

    So, philosophers are still doing this kind of important work that may be dropping sadly neglected trillion dollar bills on dirty sidewalks. I've never encountered someone in STEM who was familiar with these esoteric, dialethic logics. Never. And I've asked. It's not even popular in its own subfields of philosophy. So maybe the right person just hasn't discovered it yet.

    Possible analogy:

    Modal logic was only developed in the 20th century and turned out to be a serious, useful thing (modal logic includes symbols for possibility instead of just is/is not). One time a great philosopher, Hilary Putnam (who had a background in math) was talking to the major architect of modal logic, Saul Kripke (who also had a background in math--Laurence Tribe once said the reason he became a law professor was because he was the second smartest person in his undergraduate math major at Harvard but the number one person in his class, Kripke, was comically, depressingly, incredibly smarter than him).

    Actually, Hilary Putnam could probably relate to that since he was the second smartest person his class at a public high school in Philadelphia (identity of number one left as an exercise for the reader). He told me one time he didn't think he was that smart since that person at his high school was so smuch smarter but once he started at an Ivy League college he just thought, "This is it? None of these people are as smart as the guy I grew up with in my shitty neighborhood...".

    These are guys who did very technical work but some of their conversations might be the type of thing that makes people like Mr. Sailer think philosophy is silly. So Putnam asked Kripke, "Is it possible that glass bottles are just tigers? What if, when tigers become scared, they suddenly transform into glass bottles? Is that logically possible?' Kripke's answer was, "No. That is not possible. But....it is possible that it could *become* possible" This is how philosophy is done, and it normally appears to be pointless to lay people but...you never know.

    Replies: @anonymous, @Jack D

    I know we have a lot of smart Math/CS/Physics people here, some of whom are either retired or just interested in doing weird research in their spare time that will probably not pay off. If you’re one of those people, I can put you into contact with these philosophers who are developing this logical system.

    They would love to talk to someone who is open-minded about it and understands their background because they mostly just get blank stares in their daily lives. I know two who are really good guys and very smart.

    If you’re someone who can follow arguments about formal math in set theory, arguments about AI computer programming [ie, one of them was a LISP programmer in a couple of major university labs in the 80s and 90s], arguments about formal logic, etc. and you might be willing to take a shot at a probable dead end by trying this out and potentially claiming the biggest intellectual prize in world history–figuring out human cognition–then let me know.

    My anonymous email is “i pat its” at protonmail (no spaces or quotation marks in my name and protonmail is a dot-com domain)

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @anonymous

    Human (and possibly post-human) cognition functions as an amplifier of quantum behavior.

    , @candid_observer
    @anonymous

    I'm not familiar with these dialethic logics, but I can see the point of them as a model for cognition.

    We are all in the same boat as Whitman who, accused of contradicting himself, said "I am large, I contain multitudes."

    The problem with traditional logic is that once a single contradiction is introduced into a system of propositions, then everything is provable, and the system becomes trivial and useless.

    The trick in dialethic logic would be to figure out a way to scotch the consequences of a contradiction so that it doesn't explode the entire system. This should presumably mirror what we do when we think.

    I wonder though if there isn't a better way to handle all this using probabilistic approaches of cognition, which impress me as more apt to cognition. I doubt that most thinking really is at base best modeled by deductive logics.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Jack D

    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @anonymous


    I know we have a lot of smart Math/CS/Physics people here, some of whom are either retired or just interested in doing weird research in their spare time that will probably not pay off. If you’re one of those people, I can put you into contact with these philosophers who are developing this logical system.
     
    Getting high IQ people to sign on to stupidity is easy. You are on a fool's errand.
  96. @Johnmark
    @Steve Sailer

    What thinker doesn't prefer an empty office building or floor? For such people, Sartre's adage is fitting: hell is other people.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    What thinker doesn’t prefer an empty office building or floor? For such people, Sartre’s adage is fitting: hell is other people.

    John von Neumann for one. Von Neumann notoriously preferred a very noisy, chaotic environment for thinking.

  97. Anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Tony Tea

    Some what different shaped careers: Bush peaking as a manager in his 50s, Shannon peaking as a solo theoretician in his 30s. After WWII, Bell Labs moved from Greenwich Village to suburban New Jersey, but Shannon stayed behind because he liked jazz club waitresses and an empty office building to get his thinking about Information Theory done in.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Desiderius, @Johnmark, @Anonymous

    The philosopher Jerry Fodor, who was considered among the three or so most important philosophers in the world in his prime, moved from MIT to Rutgers because he needed to be in New York City for his opera habit.

    He was so important that Rutgers itself went from, well, Rutgers, to the most prestigious philosophy department in the world.

    Colin Mcginn, a leading British philosopher, moved from Oxbridge to the University of Miami of all places. He said he was tired of “second-rate” British thinkers at Oxford sitting around telling each other how smart they were and hey, the weather and amenities are nicer in Miami…

    Philosophy might be one of the only fields where if you have your pick of jobs it doesn’t matter how prestigious the institution is because you don’t need their resrouces. I imagine that option seems more perilous if you need to run a giant chemistry lab packed full of bright students and millions in grant money. Hey, maybe you’d rather live in the Blue Ridge mountains than Berkeley or Palo Alto but….

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Anonymous


    Hey, maybe you’d rather live in the Blue Ridge mountains than Berkeley or Palo Alto but….
     
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/96642.Rocket_Boys

    http://www.chuckyeager.com/
    , @Deckin
    @Anonymous

    It's pretty well known that McGinn was also interested in another kind of asset that you find a lot more of in Miami than in Oxford--your 'amenities', I guess.

  98. @Ringo Starr
    @black sea

    One thing that's not generally appreciated when you see closed-lip smiles (and for men, big moustaches and beards) in portrait photos from a few generations ago is that many people had bad teeth.
    Look at some videos from variety shows from the 1950s and 1960s (e.g., Ed Sullivan, Arthur Godfrey), when the camera resolution was starting to be good enough, and you will be amazed how many singers and other celebrities had really bad teeth (darkened, crooked, missing).
    My older dentist from my childhood used to tell me that when films and television images starting showing sufficient resolution is when people (including the public) started to be really conscious about their teeth. Bigger celebs before then, such as Sinatra, etc... wore caps (vinyl coverings), but the B-list celebrities and politicians didn't.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Bill Jones

    A photo of Woodrow Wilson at his 1913 inauguration shows very bad teeth:

    https://doctorzebra.com/prez/z_x28teeth_g.htm

    • Agree: Triumph104
  99. @anonymous
    "This trillion dollar bill laying on the sidewalk probably paid for the entire 2500 year history of philosophy instruction."

    I worked with a philosopher who was VERY smart and VERY into this weird, esoteric notion of "dialethic logic."

    Wiki: "Dialetheism (from Greek δίς dís 'twice' and ἀλήθεια alḗtheia 'truth') is the view that there are statements which are both true and false. More precisely, it is the belief that there can be a true statement whose negation is also true. Such statements are called "true contradictions", dialetheia, or nondualisms.

    Dialetheism is not a system of formal logic; instead, it is a thesis about truth that influences the construction of a formal logic, often based on pre-existing systems. Introducing dialetheism has various consequences, depending on the theory into which it is introduced"

    So, uhh, the point is to reject Aristotle's law of non-contradiction where if you say A is true you can't also be positing that A is NOT true at the same time....well, Aristotle's understanding of logic seems pretty reasonable--but that's the thing about intellectual history; there have been a lot of cases where something seemed pretty reasonable but it turned out something weirder was true.

    What I find interesting about this little dialethic logic club is that both people I knew who worked on it were really fucking sharp and both were really fucking passionate about it...and both of them failed to get other people interested in it. I had the reaction most people had when they tried to teach me about it:

    At first I didn't know what it was, then they explained it to me, and then I was baffled because there seemed to be no payoff. "Uhhh, ok, now I see what you did. You constructed a new, operationally functional logical system that doesn't include the law of non-contradiction. And then what? You just perform this little magic trick and finish by saying 'The Aristocrats!'?"

    This always stuck with me because in my experience it was very rare to run into smart professionals who completely failed to get anyone on their side of their pet issue. But nobody could understand why they cared so much about their little toy logical system.

    Now, here's the proposed payoff: one of these guys tried to convince me by saying he thought this would be eventually useful in describing, in a technical way, how human consciousness worked. His view--and he had worked on AI in in important computer science labs--was that AI had failed because the type of logic we used for computers and circuits was wildly successful in certain areas but just not capable of modeling consciousness because it lacked this ability to account for true contradictions. He's almost certainly wrong but....there's always that 0.001% chance someone will pick up this logic they've been working out the math for and find a way to use it for something major.

    So, philosophers are still doing this kind of important work that may be dropping sadly neglected trillion dollar bills on dirty sidewalks. I've never encountered someone in STEM who was familiar with these esoteric, dialethic logics. Never. And I've asked. It's not even popular in its own subfields of philosophy. So maybe the right person just hasn't discovered it yet.

    Possible analogy:

    Modal logic was only developed in the 20th century and turned out to be a serious, useful thing (modal logic includes symbols for possibility instead of just is/is not). One time a great philosopher, Hilary Putnam (who had a background in math) was talking to the major architect of modal logic, Saul Kripke (who also had a background in math--Laurence Tribe once said the reason he became a law professor was because he was the second smartest person in his undergraduate math major at Harvard but the number one person in his class, Kripke, was comically, depressingly, incredibly smarter than him).

    Actually, Hilary Putnam could probably relate to that since he was the second smartest person his class at a public high school in Philadelphia (identity of number one left as an exercise for the reader). He told me one time he didn't think he was that smart since that person at his high school was so smuch smarter but once he started at an Ivy League college he just thought, "This is it? None of these people are as smart as the guy I grew up with in my shitty neighborhood...".

    These are guys who did very technical work but some of their conversations might be the type of thing that makes people like Mr. Sailer think philosophy is silly. So Putnam asked Kripke, "Is it possible that glass bottles are just tigers? What if, when tigers become scared, they suddenly transform into glass bottles? Is that logically possible?' Kripke's answer was, "No. That is not possible. But....it is possible that it could *become* possible" This is how philosophy is done, and it normally appears to be pointless to lay people but...you never know.

    Replies: @anonymous, @Jack D

    Chomsky.

    “None of these people are as smart as the guy I grew up with in my shitty neighborhood…”

    Not everyone goes to high school with Chomsky. And Central has been Philadelphia’s magnet school since 1836 and in that era was full of poor but smart (mostly Jewish) kids so it was not like this was just some neighborhood ghetto school.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jack D

    Not everyone but it must be interesting.

    Another professor told me, "you know how kids will talk about who might be the smartest kid at school? The nerdy kids at my school asked each other if our friend Ed was the smartest person on the entire planet..."

    Ed was Ed Written so the answer was probably yes

  100. @Grace Jones
    @black sea

    That's the look that adolescent males adopt in a confrontation, when they're trying to be brave when they're scared. Unfortunately, it makes bullying authority figures furious.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    bullying authority figures

    Like Savannah Guthrie.

    What Lauer et. al. did to that woman is a tragedy.

  101. @anonymous
    @anonymous

    I know we have a lot of smart Math/CS/Physics people here, some of whom are either retired or just interested in doing weird research in their spare time that will probably not pay off. If you're one of those people, I can put you into contact with these philosophers who are developing this logical system.


    They would love to talk to someone who is open-minded about it and understands their background because they mostly just get blank stares in their daily lives. I know two who are really good guys and very smart.

    If you're someone who can follow arguments about formal math in set theory, arguments about AI computer programming [ie, one of them was a LISP programmer in a couple of major university labs in the 80s and 90s], arguments about formal logic, etc. and you might be willing to take a shot at a probable dead end by trying this out and potentially claiming the biggest intellectual prize in world history--figuring out human cognition--then let me know.

    My anonymous email is "i pat its" at protonmail (no spaces or quotation marks in my name and protonmail is a dot-com domain)

    Replies: @Desiderius, @candid_observer, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Human (and possibly post-human) cognition functions as an amplifier of quantum behavior.

  102. @bomag
    @Desiderius

    One wonders how things would have unfolded had he been more interested in Hamilton than Boole.

    You have to walk before you can run: Boole is walking; Hamilton is running. I don't think it would have unfolded differently.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Is Steve is right Shannon was born running.

  103. @MBlanc46
    @slumber_j

    That makes me feel better about my philosophy degree.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Love of wisdom never goes unrequited.

  104. @Desiderius
    @syonredux

    The W stands for wealthy.

    Irish, Dutch, and Italian are neither Angle nor Saxon. I suppose a Hessian might have an argument, though many of those were and are Catholics.

    Replies: @syonredux, @syonredux

    The W stands for wealthy.

    Irish, Dutch, and Italian are neither Angle nor Saxon. I suppose a Hessian might have an argument, though many of those were and are Catholics.

    The “W” stands for White: White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.

    As for more expansive definitions:

    Sociologists sometimes use the term very broadly to include all Protestant Americans of Northern European or Northwestern European ancestry regardless of their class or power.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestant

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @syonredux

    White is superfluous with Anglo-Saxon.

    Unless you're Mary Beard.

    From the Wiki:

    "The first published mention of the term "WASP" was provided by political scientist Andrew Hacker in 1957,[12] referring to the class of Americans that held "national power in its economic, political, and social aspects";[13] here the "W" stands for "wealthy" rather than "white":

    These 'old' Americans possess, for the most part, some common characteristics. First of all, they are 'WASPs'—in the cocktail party jargon of the sociologists. That is, they are wealthy, they are Anglo-Saxon in origin, and they are Protestants (and disproportionately Episcopalian)."

    The substitution of "white" for "wealthy" is how they win.

    Don't. Get. Played.

    Replies: @syonredux

  105. @anonymous
    @anonymous

    I know we have a lot of smart Math/CS/Physics people here, some of whom are either retired or just interested in doing weird research in their spare time that will probably not pay off. If you're one of those people, I can put you into contact with these philosophers who are developing this logical system.


    They would love to talk to someone who is open-minded about it and understands their background because they mostly just get blank stares in their daily lives. I know two who are really good guys and very smart.

    If you're someone who can follow arguments about formal math in set theory, arguments about AI computer programming [ie, one of them was a LISP programmer in a couple of major university labs in the 80s and 90s], arguments about formal logic, etc. and you might be willing to take a shot at a probable dead end by trying this out and potentially claiming the biggest intellectual prize in world history--figuring out human cognition--then let me know.

    My anonymous email is "i pat its" at protonmail (no spaces or quotation marks in my name and protonmail is a dot-com domain)

    Replies: @Desiderius, @candid_observer, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    I’m not familiar with these dialethic logics, but I can see the point of them as a model for cognition.

    We are all in the same boat as Whitman who, accused of contradicting himself, said “I am large, I contain multitudes.”

    The problem with traditional logic is that once a single contradiction is introduced into a system of propositions, then everything is provable, and the system becomes trivial and useless.

    The trick in dialethic logic would be to figure out a way to scotch the consequences of a contradiction so that it doesn’t explode the entire system. This should presumably mirror what we do when we think.

    I wonder though if there isn’t a better way to handle all this using probabilistic approaches of cognition, which impress me as more apt to cognition. I doubt that most thinking really is at base best modeled by deductive logics.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @candid_observer

    It's akin to the introduction of irrational/imaginary numbers.

    , @Jack D
    @candid_observer

    What we call "artificial intelligence" is mostly based on probabilistic reasoning and inference.

    https://www.elsevier.com/books/probabilistic-reasoning-in-intelligent-systems/pearl/978-0-08-051489-5

    Much of the important work in this area was done by Judea Pearl, father of the American journalist Daniel Pearl who was kidnapped and murdered by Al Qaeda in Pakistan. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed claims to have personally beheaded Pearl (in addition to being the mastermind of the 9/11 attack). This piece of shit has been eating at taxpayer expense in Guantanamo since 2006. In 2009, the Red Cross arranged for him to pose for this lovely portrait:

    https://media.newyorker.com/photos/59096e0dc14b3c606c107908/master/w_2560%2Cc_limit/100913_r19861_p646.jpg

    Looking much better than the last time we saw him:

    https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/120404052319-khalid-sheikh-mohammed-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg

    It truly boggles the imagination that he is being treated in such a royal fashion instead of being executed and his body dumped in the ocean long ago. At the very least he should be kept clean shaven and in a prison uniform like any prisoner nor should he be allowed access to inflammatory texts like the Koran.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  106. @Coemgen
    @Rich

    There is a Wikipedia article regarding the surname Shannon. The article indicates the name derives from the Gaelic for "skilled storyteller." Plausible, I guess. An illiterate traditional storyteller would need to have had an exceptional memory. Remembering Boole's work well enough to apply to a completely unrelated field may have required an exceptional memory.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    There is a Wikipedia article regarding the surname Shannon. The article indicates the name derives from the Gaelic for “skilled storyteller.”

    Maybe so, but there is a River Shannon in Ireland, which is the longest river in Ireland.

    Surnames are often the names of rivers, though George Orwell became a river by choice, not birth, being born a Blair.

    • Replies: @Coemgen
    @Jonathan Mason

    I have crossed the Shannon and landed in Shannon a few times! The only person named Shannon I'm familiar with is Claude. I probably [unknowingly] drove by the nursing home where he spent his final years at least a few times.

  107. @Rich
    @syonredux

    The Irish guys I grew up with in Queens would probably fight you if you called them Wasps, and the Dutch and French are pretty proud of not being Waspish. As for the Germans, I believe they've got a bit of pride in their own heritage and aren't all fans of the Wasps. But I guess it's just a matter of where you're from. Do you really think the descendants of the Scots in one of your photos, or the poor Okies would ever have really been called Wasps by anyone? The one ethnic group that fought tooth and nail to become Waspish, were the Jews, who've now supplanted them in many of the positions of power the Wasps once held.

    Replies: @syonredux

    The Irish guys I grew up with in Queens would probably fight you if you called them Wasps,

    Prole Catholics. The “Irish” that I’m thinking of are descended from long-settled Protestants.Cf Woodbury Kane:

    and the Dutch and French are pretty proud of not being Waspish.

    Long-settled Dutch and (Protestant) French have largely been absorbed into WASP-dom:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delano_family

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du_Pont_family

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Rensselaer_(family)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_family

    As for the Germans, I believe they’ve got a bit of pride in their own heritage and aren’t all fans of the Wasps.

    Ditto for Protestant Germans whose roots date back to the 18th century. They’ve been absorbed into WASP-dom:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astor_family

    Do you really think the descendants of the Scots in one of your photos, or the poor Okies would ever have really been called Wasps by anyone?

    Sure. In the USA, Anglo-Saxons and Scots are, to use a law school term, a distinction without a difference.

    • Replies: @Rich
    @syonredux

    You've obviously never met a Scotsman. Calling a Scotsman a WASP is about the same as calling a Portuguese a Spaniard. As for the Dutch, I suppose in some parts of the country they may have been "absorbed", but here in NY the Dutch are kind of proud of their heritage and are adamant that they aren't Anglo-Saxon. In fact, Teddy Roosevelt once gave a speech where he specifically stated had "no Anglo-Saxon blood". Go to Massachusetts or Maine and see if French Americans are considered WASPs. Or down to Louisiana. I'm married to a girl of German and Dutch heritage and her German relatives, Catholic by the way, would never accept the insult of being called "Anglo-Saxon".

    Most of us from European heritages that aren't "Anglo-Saxon Prods" never refer to ourselves as WASPs. Again, here in NY they are a very specific ethnicity. Could be different where you're from.

    And even Irish Protestants, Prole or Patrician, are rarely considered WASPs. Irish Catholics would never, no matter how wealthy, allow themselves to be called WASPs. The only Euro descended ethnicity I've ever known (non-English) that wanted to be WASPs, were the Jews.

    Replies: @syonredux

  108. @Desiderius
    @syonredux

    The W stands for wealthy.

    Irish, Dutch, and Italian are neither Angle nor Saxon. I suppose a Hessian might have an argument, though many of those were and are Catholics.

    Replies: @syonredux, @syonredux

    And there’s at least one Italian-derived family in the USA that count as WASPs:

    Taliaferro (/ˈtɒlɪvər/ TOL-i-vər), also spelled Talliaferro, Tagliaferro, Talifero, or Taliferro and sometimes anglicised to Tellifero, Tolliver or Toliver,[1] is a prominent family in eastern Virginia and Maryland. The Taliaferros (originally Tagliaferro, Italian pronunciation: [ˌtaʎʎaˈfɛrro], which means “ironcutter” in Italian) are one of the early families who settled in Virginia in the 17th century. They migrated from London, where an ancestor had served as a musician in the court of Queen Elizabeth I. The surname in that line is believed to trace back to Bartholomew Taliaferro, a native of Venice who settled in London and was made a denizen in 1562.[2]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliaferro

    Richard Taliaferro ( /ˈtɒlɪvər/ TOL-i-vər; c. 1705–1779) was a colonial architect and builder in Williamsburg, Virginia, in what is now the United States. Among his works is Wythe House, a Georgian-style building that was built in 1750 or 1755. It was declared a U.S. National Historic Landmark in 1970.[1][2][3][4] Other works were public buildings, including the Governor’s Palace, the Capitol, and the President’s House at the College of William & Mary.[5]

    Richard Taliaferro was born about 1705 to an Anglo-Italian family, the Taliaferros, who had settled in Virginia in the early 17th century from London. He lived most of his adult life at his plantation, Powhatan, in James City County outside Williamsburg. Taliaferro built the Wythe House in Williamsburg for his daughter, Elizabeth, and her husband, George Wythe.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Taliaferro

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wythe_House

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @syonredux

    Two centuries in Angland is enough to be an Angle.

    Replies: @syonredux

    , @Rich
    @syonredux

    Lord Wellington, when told being born in Ireland made him Irish, replied, "If a man is born in a barn, it doesn't make him a horse." Blood is what matters.

    Replies: @syonredux

  109. @syonredux
    @Desiderius


    The W stands for wealthy.

    Irish, Dutch, and Italian are neither Angle nor Saxon. I suppose a Hessian might have an argument, though many of those were and are Catholics.
     
    The "W" stands for White: White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.


    As for more expansive definitions:

    Sociologists sometimes use the term very broadly to include all Protestant Americans of Northern European or Northwestern European ancestry regardless of their class or power.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestant

    Replies: @Desiderius

    White is superfluous with Anglo-Saxon.

    Unless you’re Mary Beard.

    From the Wiki:

    “The first published mention of the term “WASP” was provided by political scientist Andrew Hacker in 1957,[12] referring to the class of Americans that held “national power in its economic, political, and social aspects”;[13] here the “W” stands for “wealthy” rather than “white”:

    These ‘old’ Americans possess, for the most part, some common characteristics. First of all, they are ‘WASPs’—in the cocktail party jargon of the sociologists. That is, they are wealthy, they are Anglo-Saxon in origin, and they are Protestants (and disproportionately Episcopalian).”

    The substitution of “white” for “wealthy” is how they win.

    Don’t. Get. Played.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Desiderius


    White is superfluous with Anglo-Saxon.
     
    Sadly, not anymore.....

    The substitution of “white” for “wealthy” is how they win.
     
    Dunno. Seems to me that uniting Bas-WASPs with Haute-WASPs in defense of their common interests would be a good idea....


    http://www.stevestravelguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Minuteman-Statue-on-Lexington-Battle-Green.jpg

    https://www.liveaction.org/news/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Screen-Shot-2018-03-16-at-10.12.20-AM.png

    Replies: @Desiderius

  110. Bush and Shannon also lived to almost exactly the same age. Bush, 84, Shannon, 85.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    @Mark Finkelstein

    Bush and Shannon also lived to almost exactly the same age. Bush, 84, Shannon, 85.

    Bush had a much better ending. He remained active right up to his death from a stroke, still writing and serving on the board of trustees of the Carnegie Institution. Shannon went senile long before his death and spent years in a nursing home.

    John von Neumann had a strange death. As he lay on his deathbed in a military hospital, only people with security clearances could be in his presence for fear that he'd blurt out military secrets in his delirium.

  111. @candid_observer
    @anonymous

    I'm not familiar with these dialethic logics, but I can see the point of them as a model for cognition.

    We are all in the same boat as Whitman who, accused of contradicting himself, said "I am large, I contain multitudes."

    The problem with traditional logic is that once a single contradiction is introduced into a system of propositions, then everything is provable, and the system becomes trivial and useless.

    The trick in dialethic logic would be to figure out a way to scotch the consequences of a contradiction so that it doesn't explode the entire system. This should presumably mirror what we do when we think.

    I wonder though if there isn't a better way to handle all this using probabilistic approaches of cognition, which impress me as more apt to cognition. I doubt that most thinking really is at base best modeled by deductive logics.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Jack D

    It’s akin to the introduction of irrational/imaginary numbers.

  112. @syonredux
    @Desiderius

    And there's at least one Italian-derived family in the USA that count as WASPs:


    Taliaferro (/ˈtɒlɪvər/ TOL-i-vər), also spelled Talliaferro, Tagliaferro, Talifero, or Taliferro and sometimes anglicised to Tellifero, Tolliver or Toliver,[1] is a prominent family in eastern Virginia and Maryland. The Taliaferros (originally Tagliaferro, Italian pronunciation: [ˌtaʎʎaˈfɛrro], which means "ironcutter" in Italian) are one of the early families who settled in Virginia in the 17th century. They migrated from London, where an ancestor had served as a musician in the court of Queen Elizabeth I. The surname in that line is believed to trace back to Bartholomew Taliaferro, a native of Venice who settled in London and was made a denizen in 1562.[2]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliaferro

    Richard Taliaferro ( /ˈtɒlɪvər/ TOL-i-vər; c. 1705–1779) was a colonial architect and builder in Williamsburg, Virginia, in what is now the United States. Among his works is Wythe House, a Georgian-style building that was built in 1750 or 1755. It was declared a U.S. National Historic Landmark in 1970.[1][2][3][4] Other works were public buildings, including the Governor's Palace, the Capitol, and the President's House at the College of William & Mary.[5]
     

    Richard Taliaferro was born about 1705 to an Anglo-Italian family, the Taliaferros, who had settled in Virginia in the early 17th century from London. He lived most of his adult life at his plantation, Powhatan, in James City County outside Williamsburg. Taliaferro built the Wythe House in Williamsburg for his daughter, Elizabeth, and her husband, George Wythe.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Taliaferro


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wythe_House


    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_djGvTLbafFQ/THmrDKsrSRI/AAAAAAAABZw/zpmlRMe-BMM/s1600/Wythe+House+rear+yard.jpg

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Rich

    Two centuries in Angland is enough to be an Angle.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Desiderius


    Two centuries in Angland is enough to be an Angle.
     
    Indeed. Intermarriage with Anglo-Saxons can work wonders....
  113. @syonredux
    @Rich


    The Irish guys I grew up with in Queens would probably fight you if you called them Wasps,
     
    Prole Catholics. The "Irish" that I'm thinking of are descended from long-settled Protestants.Cf Woodbury Kane:

    http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-1529-0-45724500-1386884164.jpg

    and the Dutch and French are pretty proud of not being Waspish.
     
    Long-settled Dutch and (Protestant) French have largely been absorbed into WASP-dom:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delano_family


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du_Pont_family


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Rensselaer_(family)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_family

    As for the Germans, I believe they’ve got a bit of pride in their own heritage and aren’t all fans of the Wasps.
     
    Ditto for Protestant Germans whose roots date back to the 18th century. They've been absorbed into WASP-dom:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astor_family

    Do you really think the descendants of the Scots in one of your photos, or the poor Okies would ever have really been called Wasps by anyone?

     

    Sure. In the USA, Anglo-Saxons and Scots are, to use a law school term, a distinction without a difference.

    Replies: @Rich

    You’ve obviously never met a Scotsman. Calling a Scotsman a WASP is about the same as calling a Portuguese a Spaniard. As for the Dutch, I suppose in some parts of the country they may have been “absorbed”, but here in NY the Dutch are kind of proud of their heritage and are adamant that they aren’t Anglo-Saxon. In fact, Teddy Roosevelt once gave a speech where he specifically stated had “no Anglo-Saxon blood”. Go to Massachusetts or Maine and see if French Americans are considered WASPs. Or down to Louisiana. I’m married to a girl of German and Dutch heritage and her German relatives, Catholic by the way, would never accept the insult of being called “Anglo-Saxon”.

    Most of us from European heritages that aren’t “Anglo-Saxon Prods” never refer to ourselves as WASPs. Again, here in NY they are a very specific ethnicity. Could be different where you’re from.

    And even Irish Protestants, Prole or Patrician, are rarely considered WASPs. Irish Catholics would never, no matter how wealthy, allow themselves to be called WASPs. The only Euro descended ethnicity I’ve ever known (non-English) that wanted to be WASPs, were the Jews.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Rich


    In fact, Teddy Roosevelt once gave a speech where he specifically stated had “no Anglo-Saxon blood”.
     
    TR's grandmother was a WASP, Margaret Barnhill....

    You’ve obviously never met a Scotsman. Calling a Scotsman a WASP is about the same as calling a Portuguese a Spaniard.
     
    In the UK, sure....but Old-American Scots in the USA are WASPs. Sure, some of them like to LARP.....but that's just posturing.

    Go to Massachusetts or Maine and see if French Americans are considered WASPs.

     

    I wasn't talking about Catholic immigrants from Quebec. I'm talking about long-settled Protestants:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delano_family


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du_Pont_family

    . Or down to Louisiana.
     
    LA, like Hawaii, is sui generis.

    . I’m married to a girl of German and Dutch heritage and her German relatives, Catholic by the way, would never accept the insult of being called “Anglo-Saxon”.
     
    There you go. I'm talking about Protestants.

    And even Irish Protestants, Prole or Patrician, are rarely considered WASPs.

     

    Dunno.....Woodbury Kane looks pretty WASPy to me....



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodbury_Kane

    Replies: @Rich

  114. @syonredux
    @Desiderius

    And there's at least one Italian-derived family in the USA that count as WASPs:


    Taliaferro (/ˈtɒlɪvər/ TOL-i-vər), also spelled Talliaferro, Tagliaferro, Talifero, or Taliferro and sometimes anglicised to Tellifero, Tolliver or Toliver,[1] is a prominent family in eastern Virginia and Maryland. The Taliaferros (originally Tagliaferro, Italian pronunciation: [ˌtaʎʎaˈfɛrro], which means "ironcutter" in Italian) are one of the early families who settled in Virginia in the 17th century. They migrated from London, where an ancestor had served as a musician in the court of Queen Elizabeth I. The surname in that line is believed to trace back to Bartholomew Taliaferro, a native of Venice who settled in London and was made a denizen in 1562.[2]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliaferro

    Richard Taliaferro ( /ˈtɒlɪvər/ TOL-i-vər; c. 1705–1779) was a colonial architect and builder in Williamsburg, Virginia, in what is now the United States. Among his works is Wythe House, a Georgian-style building that was built in 1750 or 1755. It was declared a U.S. National Historic Landmark in 1970.[1][2][3][4] Other works were public buildings, including the Governor's Palace, the Capitol, and the President's House at the College of William & Mary.[5]
     

    Richard Taliaferro was born about 1705 to an Anglo-Italian family, the Taliaferros, who had settled in Virginia in the early 17th century from London. He lived most of his adult life at his plantation, Powhatan, in James City County outside Williamsburg. Taliaferro built the Wythe House in Williamsburg for his daughter, Elizabeth, and her husband, George Wythe.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Taliaferro


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wythe_House


    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_djGvTLbafFQ/THmrDKsrSRI/AAAAAAAABZw/zpmlRMe-BMM/s1600/Wythe+House+rear+yard.jpg

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Rich

    Lord Wellington, when told being born in Ireland made him Irish, replied, “If a man is born in a barn, it doesn’t make him a horse.” Blood is what matters.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Rich


    Lord Wellington, when told being born in Ireland made him Irish, replied, “If a man is born in a barn, it doesn’t make him a horse.” Blood is what matters.
     
    Sure. For example, take Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Despite his middle and last names, he was mostly of Anglo-Saxon blood.


    Another example is the Crowninshield family:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowninshield_family

    German origins, but mostly Anglo-Saxon blood....


    Then there's the Astor family...


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astor_family


    German origins, but heavily intermingled with Anglo-Saxons....For example, German immigrant John Jacob Astor married Sarah Cox Todd....And their son, William Backhouse Astor Sr., married Margaret Armstrong.... and their son, John Jacob Astor III, married Charlotte Gibbes.....And their son, William Waldorf Astor, moved to the UK and became 1st Viscount Astor.....
  115. @candid_observer
    @anonymous

    I'm not familiar with these dialethic logics, but I can see the point of them as a model for cognition.

    We are all in the same boat as Whitman who, accused of contradicting himself, said "I am large, I contain multitudes."

    The problem with traditional logic is that once a single contradiction is introduced into a system of propositions, then everything is provable, and the system becomes trivial and useless.

    The trick in dialethic logic would be to figure out a way to scotch the consequences of a contradiction so that it doesn't explode the entire system. This should presumably mirror what we do when we think.

    I wonder though if there isn't a better way to handle all this using probabilistic approaches of cognition, which impress me as more apt to cognition. I doubt that most thinking really is at base best modeled by deductive logics.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Jack D

    What we call “artificial intelligence” is mostly based on probabilistic reasoning and inference.

    https://www.elsevier.com/books/probabilistic-reasoning-in-intelligent-systems/pearl/978-0-08-051489-5

    Much of the important work in this area was done by Judea Pearl, father of the American journalist Daniel Pearl who was kidnapped and murdered by Al Qaeda in Pakistan. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed claims to have personally beheaded Pearl (in addition to being the mastermind of the 9/11 attack). This piece of shit has been eating at taxpayer expense in Guantanamo since 2006. In 2009, the Red Cross arranged for him to pose for this lovely portrait:

    Looking much better than the last time we saw him:

    It truly boggles the imagination that he is being treated in such a royal fashion instead of being executed and his body dumped in the ocean long ago. At the very least he should be kept clean shaven and in a prison uniform like any prisoner nor should he be allowed access to inflammatory texts like the Koran.

    • Agree: Old Palo Altan
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jack D

    Remind him often that he looks like Ron Jeremy. I'm sure he likes that.

  116. @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    The philosopher Jerry Fodor, who was considered among the three or so most important philosophers in the world in his prime, moved from MIT to Rutgers because he needed to be in New York City for his opera habit.

    He was so important that Rutgers itself went from, well, Rutgers, to the most prestigious philosophy department in the world.

    Colin Mcginn, a leading British philosopher, moved from Oxbridge to the University of Miami of all places. He said he was tired of "second-rate" British thinkers at Oxford sitting around telling each other how smart they were and hey, the weather and amenities are nicer in Miami...


    Philosophy might be one of the only fields where if you have your pick of jobs it doesn't matter how prestigious the institution is because you don't need their resrouces. I imagine that option seems more perilous if you need to run a giant chemistry lab packed full of bright students and millions in grant money. Hey, maybe you'd rather live in the Blue Ridge mountains than Berkeley or Palo Alto but....

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Deckin

    Hey, maybe you’d rather live in the Blue Ridge mountains than Berkeley or Palo Alto but….

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/96642.Rocket_Boys

    http://www.chuckyeager.com/

  117. @Rich
    @syonredux

    You've obviously never met a Scotsman. Calling a Scotsman a WASP is about the same as calling a Portuguese a Spaniard. As for the Dutch, I suppose in some parts of the country they may have been "absorbed", but here in NY the Dutch are kind of proud of their heritage and are adamant that they aren't Anglo-Saxon. In fact, Teddy Roosevelt once gave a speech where he specifically stated had "no Anglo-Saxon blood". Go to Massachusetts or Maine and see if French Americans are considered WASPs. Or down to Louisiana. I'm married to a girl of German and Dutch heritage and her German relatives, Catholic by the way, would never accept the insult of being called "Anglo-Saxon".

    Most of us from European heritages that aren't "Anglo-Saxon Prods" never refer to ourselves as WASPs. Again, here in NY they are a very specific ethnicity. Could be different where you're from.

    And even Irish Protestants, Prole or Patrician, are rarely considered WASPs. Irish Catholics would never, no matter how wealthy, allow themselves to be called WASPs. The only Euro descended ethnicity I've ever known (non-English) that wanted to be WASPs, were the Jews.

    Replies: @syonredux

    In fact, Teddy Roosevelt once gave a speech where he specifically stated had “no Anglo-Saxon blood”.

    TR’s grandmother was a WASP, Margaret Barnhill….

    You’ve obviously never met a Scotsman. Calling a Scotsman a WASP is about the same as calling a Portuguese a Spaniard.

    In the UK, sure….but Old-American Scots in the USA are WASPs. Sure, some of them like to LARP…..but that’s just posturing.

    Go to Massachusetts or Maine and see if French Americans are considered WASPs.

    I wasn’t talking about Catholic immigrants from Quebec. I’m talking about long-settled Protestants:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delano_family

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du_Pont_family

    . Or down to Louisiana.

    LA, like Hawaii, is sui generis.

    . I’m married to a girl of German and Dutch heritage and her German relatives, Catholic by the way, would never accept the insult of being called “Anglo-Saxon”.

    There you go. I’m talking about Protestants.

    And even Irish Protestants, Prole or Patrician, are rarely considered WASPs.

    Dunno…..Woodbury Kane looks pretty WASPy to me….

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodbury_Kane

    • Replies: @Rich
    @syonredux

    My Dutch-American father-in-law, whose ancestors fought for the Americans in the Revolutionary War showed me the speech TR made a long time ago. The old guy is dead now, so I'm glad he never had to learn that his favorite president was part English.

    Very wealthy Protestants from Ulster who married into, or were actually English to begin with, might become WASPs, but the majority of Ulstermen would never be considered WASPs. Read Jim Webb's 'Born Fighting' to see what I mean. I grew up with Scottish neighbors who were always talking about their ancestry and their dislike for the English, but you may know a Scotsman somewhere who has a different opinion.

    Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine and even New Hampshire, have a long time French presence, from before the Revolutionary War. I have a daughter-in-law who is descended from them. I suppose you're referring to the Huguenots, but I'm not sure if they'd like being called WASPs, either.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the WASPs and the great nation they founded and built. However, in my experience here in NY and around the country, non-English folks, Protestant, Catholic or other, would never refer to themselves as WASPs.

    Replies: @syonredux, @Desiderius

  118. @Rich
    @syonredux

    Lord Wellington, when told being born in Ireland made him Irish, replied, "If a man is born in a barn, it doesn't make him a horse." Blood is what matters.

    Replies: @syonredux

    Lord Wellington, when told being born in Ireland made him Irish, replied, “If a man is born in a barn, it doesn’t make him a horse.” Blood is what matters.

    Sure. For example, take Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Despite his middle and last names, he was mostly of Anglo-Saxon blood.

    Another example is the Crowninshield family:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowninshield_family

    German origins, but mostly Anglo-Saxon blood….

    Then there’s the Astor family…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astor_family

    German origins, but heavily intermingled with Anglo-Saxons….For example, German immigrant John Jacob Astor married Sarah Cox Todd….And their son, William Backhouse Astor Sr., married Margaret Armstrong…. and their son, John Jacob Astor III, married Charlotte Gibbes…..And their son, William Waldorf Astor, moved to the UK and became 1st Viscount Astor…..

  119. Anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    @anonymous

    Chomsky.

    "None of these people are as smart as the guy I grew up with in my shitty neighborhood…”

    Not everyone goes to high school with Chomsky. And Central has been Philadelphia's magnet school since 1836 and in that era was full of poor but smart (mostly Jewish) kids so it was not like this was just some neighborhood ghetto school.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Not everyone but it must be interesting.

    Another professor told me, “you know how kids will talk about who might be the smartest kid at school? The nerdy kids at my school asked each other if our friend Ed was the smartest person on the entire planet…”

    Ed was Ed Written so the answer was probably yes

  120. @Desiderius
    @syonredux

    Two centuries in Angland is enough to be an Angle.

    Replies: @syonredux

    Two centuries in Angland is enough to be an Angle.

    Indeed. Intermarriage with Anglo-Saxons can work wonders….

  121. @syonredux
    @Rich


    In fact, Teddy Roosevelt once gave a speech where he specifically stated had “no Anglo-Saxon blood”.
     
    TR's grandmother was a WASP, Margaret Barnhill....

    You’ve obviously never met a Scotsman. Calling a Scotsman a WASP is about the same as calling a Portuguese a Spaniard.
     
    In the UK, sure....but Old-American Scots in the USA are WASPs. Sure, some of them like to LARP.....but that's just posturing.

    Go to Massachusetts or Maine and see if French Americans are considered WASPs.

     

    I wasn't talking about Catholic immigrants from Quebec. I'm talking about long-settled Protestants:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delano_family


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du_Pont_family

    . Or down to Louisiana.
     
    LA, like Hawaii, is sui generis.

    . I’m married to a girl of German and Dutch heritage and her German relatives, Catholic by the way, would never accept the insult of being called “Anglo-Saxon”.
     
    There you go. I'm talking about Protestants.

    And even Irish Protestants, Prole or Patrician, are rarely considered WASPs.

     

    Dunno.....Woodbury Kane looks pretty WASPy to me....



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodbury_Kane

    Replies: @Rich

    My Dutch-American father-in-law, whose ancestors fought for the Americans in the Revolutionary War showed me the speech TR made a long time ago. The old guy is dead now, so I’m glad he never had to learn that his favorite president was part English.

    Very wealthy Protestants from Ulster who married into, or were actually English to begin with, might become WASPs, but the majority of Ulstermen would never be considered WASPs. Read Jim Webb’s ‘Born Fighting’ to see what I mean. I grew up with Scottish neighbors who were always talking about their ancestry and their dislike for the English, but you may know a Scotsman somewhere who has a different opinion.

    Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine and even New Hampshire, have a long time French presence, from before the Revolutionary War. I have a daughter-in-law who is descended from them. I suppose you’re referring to the Huguenots, but I’m not sure if they’d like being called WASPs, either.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of the WASPs and the great nation they founded and built. However, in my experience here in NY and around the country, non-English folks, Protestant, Catholic or other, would never refer to themselves as WASPs.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Rich


    My Dutch-American father-in-law, whose ancestors fought for the Americans in the Revolutionary War showed me the speech TR made a long time ago. The old guy is dead now, so I’m glad he never had to learn that his favorite president was part English.
     
    TR was also part Scots; his mother was Martha Bulloch:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Bulloch_Roosevelt



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stephens_Bulloch

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archibald_Bulloch

    In terms of ancestry, TR was 50% Scots, 25% English, and 25% Dutch.

    Very wealthy Protestants from Ulster who married into, or were actually English to begin with, might become WASPs, but the majority of Ulstermen would never be considered WASPs. Read Jim Webb’s ‘Born Fighting’ to see what I mean.
     
    Yes, the Scots-Irish. Interestingly enough, they were commonly called "Anglo-Irish" back in the 18th century. Webb's book is a tad on the romantic side. I would recommend the section on the Backcountry in Fischer's Albion's Seed as a corrective.

    Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine and even New Hampshire, have a long time French presence, from before the Revolutionary War. I have a daughter-in-law who is descended from them..
     
    Catholics? I was under the impression that the bulk of the Catholic Quebecois French in NE date to the 19th century.

    I suppose you’re referring to the Huguenots, but I’m not sure if they’d like being called WASPs, either.
     
    John Jay certainly thought of himself as an Anglo-Saxon.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of the WASPs and the great nation they founded and built. However, in my experience here in NY and around the country, non-English folks, Protestant, Catholic or other, would never refer to themselves as WASPs.
     
    No one likes being called a WASP. Thanks to Hollywood, WASP = evil.

    Replies: @Rich, @Hibernian

    , @Desiderius
    @Rich


    Read Jim Webb’s ‘Born Fighting’
     
    Albion's Seed is the book you need.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/32081.Albion_s_Seed
  122. @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    The philosopher Jerry Fodor, who was considered among the three or so most important philosophers in the world in his prime, moved from MIT to Rutgers because he needed to be in New York City for his opera habit.

    He was so important that Rutgers itself went from, well, Rutgers, to the most prestigious philosophy department in the world.

    Colin Mcginn, a leading British philosopher, moved from Oxbridge to the University of Miami of all places. He said he was tired of "second-rate" British thinkers at Oxford sitting around telling each other how smart they were and hey, the weather and amenities are nicer in Miami...


    Philosophy might be one of the only fields where if you have your pick of jobs it doesn't matter how prestigious the institution is because you don't need their resrouces. I imagine that option seems more perilous if you need to run a giant chemistry lab packed full of bright students and millions in grant money. Hey, maybe you'd rather live in the Blue Ridge mountains than Berkeley or Palo Alto but....

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Deckin

    It’s pretty well known that McGinn was also interested in another kind of asset that you find a lot more of in Miami than in Oxford–your ‘amenities’, I guess.

  123. @Desiderius
    @syonredux

    White is superfluous with Anglo-Saxon.

    Unless you're Mary Beard.

    From the Wiki:

    "The first published mention of the term "WASP" was provided by political scientist Andrew Hacker in 1957,[12] referring to the class of Americans that held "national power in its economic, political, and social aspects";[13] here the "W" stands for "wealthy" rather than "white":

    These 'old' Americans possess, for the most part, some common characteristics. First of all, they are 'WASPs'—in the cocktail party jargon of the sociologists. That is, they are wealthy, they are Anglo-Saxon in origin, and they are Protestants (and disproportionately Episcopalian)."

    The substitution of "white" for "wealthy" is how they win.

    Don't. Get. Played.

    Replies: @syonredux

    White is superfluous with Anglo-Saxon.

    Sadly, not anymore…..

    The substitution of “white” for “wealthy” is how they win.

    Dunno. Seems to me that uniting Bas-WASPs with Haute-WASPs in defense of their common interests would be a good idea….

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @syonredux

    That's what I'm saying. There is no Bas-WASP anymore than there's a southern Yank. I've known a whole heap of Bas-Americans and most of them haven't even heard the term (WASP).

    If you want unity you've got that flag flapping there in the background or you've got jackshit.

  124. @Rich
    @syonredux

    My Dutch-American father-in-law, whose ancestors fought for the Americans in the Revolutionary War showed me the speech TR made a long time ago. The old guy is dead now, so I'm glad he never had to learn that his favorite president was part English.

    Very wealthy Protestants from Ulster who married into, or were actually English to begin with, might become WASPs, but the majority of Ulstermen would never be considered WASPs. Read Jim Webb's 'Born Fighting' to see what I mean. I grew up with Scottish neighbors who were always talking about their ancestry and their dislike for the English, but you may know a Scotsman somewhere who has a different opinion.

    Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine and even New Hampshire, have a long time French presence, from before the Revolutionary War. I have a daughter-in-law who is descended from them. I suppose you're referring to the Huguenots, but I'm not sure if they'd like being called WASPs, either.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the WASPs and the great nation they founded and built. However, in my experience here in NY and around the country, non-English folks, Protestant, Catholic or other, would never refer to themselves as WASPs.

    Replies: @syonredux, @Desiderius

    My Dutch-American father-in-law, whose ancestors fought for the Americans in the Revolutionary War showed me the speech TR made a long time ago. The old guy is dead now, so I’m glad he never had to learn that his favorite president was part English.

    TR was also part Scots; his mother was Martha Bulloch:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Bulloch_Roosevelt

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stephens_Bulloch

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archibald_Bulloch

    In terms of ancestry, TR was 50% Scots, 25% English, and 25% Dutch.

    Very wealthy Protestants from Ulster who married into, or were actually English to begin with, might become WASPs, but the majority of Ulstermen would never be considered WASPs. Read Jim Webb’s ‘Born Fighting’ to see what I mean.

    Yes, the Scots-Irish. Interestingly enough, they were commonly called “Anglo-Irish” back in the 18th century. Webb’s book is a tad on the romantic side. I would recommend the section on the Backcountry in Fischer’s Albion’s Seed as a corrective.

    Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine and even New Hampshire, have a long time French presence, from before the Revolutionary War. I have a daughter-in-law who is descended from them..

    Catholics? I was under the impression that the bulk of the Catholic Quebecois French in NE date to the 19th century.

    I suppose you’re referring to the Huguenots, but I’m not sure if they’d like being called WASPs, either.

    John Jay certainly thought of himself as an Anglo-Saxon.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of the WASPs and the great nation they founded and built. However, in my experience here in NY and around the country, non-English folks, Protestant, Catholic or other, would never refer to themselves as WASPs.

    No one likes being called a WASP. Thanks to Hollywood, WASP = evil.

    • Replies: @Rich
    @syonredux

    My understanding of the "Anglo-Irish" was always that they were the English who settled in Ireland, often intermarrying with the locals. All members in good standing with the Church of Ireland. The Scots-Irish were hard core Presbyterians. Interestingly, most of the guys I grew up with who were more than one ethnicity, went with their father's surname. In the end, as things grow worse in the US, all Euro-Americans are going to have come together under something. Southern Whites probably had it figured best.

    , @Hibernian
    @syonredux


    Yes, the Scots-Irish. Interestingly enough, they were commonly called “Anglo-Irish” back in the 18th century.
     
    The Anglo-Irish were the landlords and belonged to the (Anglican) Church of Ireland. The Scots-Irish, in Ireland, were tenants, brought in to displace and guard against Irish Catholics, and they were Presbyterian and concentrated in Ulster. Many Scots Irish went to Pennsylvania where the pacifist Quakers made use of them to provide a defensive barrier against the Indians. Many of them moved South to Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia. Later generations went west to the South Central and Southwestern states. Some Scots Irish went west to the Midwest from Pennsylvania. A few went from Ulster to northern New England.

    Replies: @miss marple

  125. @Mark Finkelstein
    Bush and Shannon also lived to almost exactly the same age. Bush, 84, Shannon, 85.

    Replies: @prosa123

    Bush and Shannon also lived to almost exactly the same age. Bush, 84, Shannon, 85.

    Bush had a much better ending. He remained active right up to his death from a stroke, still writing and serving on the board of trustees of the Carnegie Institution. Shannon went senile long before his death and spent years in a nursing home.

    John von Neumann had a strange death. As he lay on his deathbed in a military hospital, only people with security clearances could be in his presence for fear that he’d blurt out military secrets in his delirium.

  126. @MikeatMikedotMike
    This leads into an even more interesting topic: Owners that look like their pets:

    http://mymagicdog.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/People-who-look-like-their-dogs.jpg

    http://images.thehollywoodgossip.com/iu/t_slideshow/v1406308115/slides/9-pets-who-look-just-like-their-owners_an-unexpected-wrinkle.jpg

    http://www.mcyapandfries.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Houndison-Ford.png

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson

    This leads into an even more interesting topic: Owners that look like their pets:

    That is because humans did not evolve from apes. Humans evolved from dogs.

  127. @syonredux
    @Rich


    My Dutch-American father-in-law, whose ancestors fought for the Americans in the Revolutionary War showed me the speech TR made a long time ago. The old guy is dead now, so I’m glad he never had to learn that his favorite president was part English.
     
    TR was also part Scots; his mother was Martha Bulloch:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Bulloch_Roosevelt



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stephens_Bulloch

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archibald_Bulloch

    In terms of ancestry, TR was 50% Scots, 25% English, and 25% Dutch.

    Very wealthy Protestants from Ulster who married into, or were actually English to begin with, might become WASPs, but the majority of Ulstermen would never be considered WASPs. Read Jim Webb’s ‘Born Fighting’ to see what I mean.
     
    Yes, the Scots-Irish. Interestingly enough, they were commonly called "Anglo-Irish" back in the 18th century. Webb's book is a tad on the romantic side. I would recommend the section on the Backcountry in Fischer's Albion's Seed as a corrective.

    Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine and even New Hampshire, have a long time French presence, from before the Revolutionary War. I have a daughter-in-law who is descended from them..
     
    Catholics? I was under the impression that the bulk of the Catholic Quebecois French in NE date to the 19th century.

    I suppose you’re referring to the Huguenots, but I’m not sure if they’d like being called WASPs, either.
     
    John Jay certainly thought of himself as an Anglo-Saxon.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of the WASPs and the great nation they founded and built. However, in my experience here in NY and around the country, non-English folks, Protestant, Catholic or other, would never refer to themselves as WASPs.
     
    No one likes being called a WASP. Thanks to Hollywood, WASP = evil.

    Replies: @Rich, @Hibernian

    My understanding of the “Anglo-Irish” was always that they were the English who settled in Ireland, often intermarrying with the locals. All members in good standing with the Church of Ireland. The Scots-Irish were hard core Presbyterians. Interestingly, most of the guys I grew up with who were more than one ethnicity, went with their father’s surname. In the end, as things grow worse in the US, all Euro-Americans are going to have come together under something. Southern Whites probably had it figured best.

  128. @anonymous
    @anonymous

    I know we have a lot of smart Math/CS/Physics people here, some of whom are either retired or just interested in doing weird research in their spare time that will probably not pay off. If you're one of those people, I can put you into contact with these philosophers who are developing this logical system.


    They would love to talk to someone who is open-minded about it and understands their background because they mostly just get blank stares in their daily lives. I know two who are really good guys and very smart.

    If you're someone who can follow arguments about formal math in set theory, arguments about AI computer programming [ie, one of them was a LISP programmer in a couple of major university labs in the 80s and 90s], arguments about formal logic, etc. and you might be willing to take a shot at a probable dead end by trying this out and potentially claiming the biggest intellectual prize in world history--figuring out human cognition--then let me know.

    My anonymous email is "i pat its" at protonmail (no spaces or quotation marks in my name and protonmail is a dot-com domain)

    Replies: @Desiderius, @candid_observer, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    I know we have a lot of smart Math/CS/Physics people here, some of whom are either retired or just interested in doing weird research in their spare time that will probably not pay off. If you’re one of those people, I can put you into contact with these philosophers who are developing this logical system.

    Getting high IQ people to sign on to stupidity is easy. You are on a fool’s errand.

  129. @Jack D
    @candid_observer

    What we call "artificial intelligence" is mostly based on probabilistic reasoning and inference.

    https://www.elsevier.com/books/probabilistic-reasoning-in-intelligent-systems/pearl/978-0-08-051489-5

    Much of the important work in this area was done by Judea Pearl, father of the American journalist Daniel Pearl who was kidnapped and murdered by Al Qaeda in Pakistan. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed claims to have personally beheaded Pearl (in addition to being the mastermind of the 9/11 attack). This piece of shit has been eating at taxpayer expense in Guantanamo since 2006. In 2009, the Red Cross arranged for him to pose for this lovely portrait:

    https://media.newyorker.com/photos/59096e0dc14b3c606c107908/master/w_2560%2Cc_limit/100913_r19861_p646.jpg

    Looking much better than the last time we saw him:

    https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/120404052319-khalid-sheikh-mohammed-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg

    It truly boggles the imagination that he is being treated in such a royal fashion instead of being executed and his body dumped in the ocean long ago. At the very least he should be kept clean shaven and in a prison uniform like any prisoner nor should he be allowed access to inflammatory texts like the Koran.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Remind him often that he looks like Ron Jeremy. I’m sure he likes that.

  130. @syonredux
    @Rich


    Shannon is an Irish name, his mother, Mabel Wolf, was German. Bush was a WASP. I guess they were both Northern Euros, but not exactly “WASPy”.
     
    From what I've read, the Irish blood must have been quite remote, as Shannon's ancestors are described as going back to the colonial period, and included Puritans like John Ogden:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ogden_(colonist)


    Is "Wolf" always a German surname? Ancestry.com says that it can be English, Danish, or German:

    Wolf Name Meaning
    English, Danish, and German: from a short form of the various Germanic compound names with a first element wolf ‘wolf’, or a byname or nickname with this meaning. The wolf was native throughout the forests of Europe, including Britain, until comparatively recently. In ancient and medieval times it played an important role in Germanic mythology, being regarded as one of the sacred beasts of Woden. This name is widespread throughout northern, central, and eastern Europe, as well as in Britain and German-speaking countries. German: habitational name for someone living at a house distinguished by the sign of a wolf, Middle High German wolf. Jewish (Ashkenazic): from the Yiddish male personal name Volf meaning ‘wolf’, which is associated with the Hebrew personal name Binyamin (see Benjamin). This association stems from Jacob’s dying words ‘Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil’ (Genesis 49:27).
     
    https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=wolf



    Also, there's a strong tendency to lump everyone of Protestant Old American ancestry into the WASP category.

    Replies: @Rich

    Shannon’s maternal grandparents were from Germany.

  131. @Jonathan Mason
    @Coemgen


    There is a Wikipedia article regarding the surname Shannon. The article indicates the name derives from the Gaelic for “skilled storyteller.”
     
    Maybe so, but there is a River Shannon in Ireland, which is the longest river in Ireland.

    http://discovertheshannon.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Drumsna.jpg

    Surnames are often the names of rivers, though George Orwell became a river by choice, not birth, being born a Blair.

    Replies: @Coemgen

    I have crossed the Shannon and landed in Shannon a few times! The only person named Shannon I’m familiar with is Claude. I probably [unknowingly] drove by the nursing home where he spent his final years at least a few times.

  132. @syonredux
    @Desiderius


    White is superfluous with Anglo-Saxon.
     
    Sadly, not anymore.....

    The substitution of “white” for “wealthy” is how they win.
     
    Dunno. Seems to me that uniting Bas-WASPs with Haute-WASPs in defense of their common interests would be a good idea....


    http://www.stevestravelguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Minuteman-Statue-on-Lexington-Battle-Green.jpg

    https://www.liveaction.org/news/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Screen-Shot-2018-03-16-at-10.12.20-AM.png

    Replies: @Desiderius

    That’s what I’m saying. There is no Bas-WASP anymore than there’s a southern Yank. I’ve known a whole heap of Bas-Americans and most of them haven’t even heard the term (WASP).

    If you want unity you’ve got that flag flapping there in the background or you’ve got jackshit.

  133. @Rich
    @syonredux

    My Dutch-American father-in-law, whose ancestors fought for the Americans in the Revolutionary War showed me the speech TR made a long time ago. The old guy is dead now, so I'm glad he never had to learn that his favorite president was part English.

    Very wealthy Protestants from Ulster who married into, or were actually English to begin with, might become WASPs, but the majority of Ulstermen would never be considered WASPs. Read Jim Webb's 'Born Fighting' to see what I mean. I grew up with Scottish neighbors who were always talking about their ancestry and their dislike for the English, but you may know a Scotsman somewhere who has a different opinion.

    Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine and even New Hampshire, have a long time French presence, from before the Revolutionary War. I have a daughter-in-law who is descended from them. I suppose you're referring to the Huguenots, but I'm not sure if they'd like being called WASPs, either.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the WASPs and the great nation they founded and built. However, in my experience here in NY and around the country, non-English folks, Protestant, Catholic or other, would never refer to themselves as WASPs.

    Replies: @syonredux, @Desiderius

    Read Jim Webb’s ‘Born Fighting’

    Albion’s Seed is the book you need.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/32081.Albion_s_Seed

  134. @syonredux
    @Rich


    My Dutch-American father-in-law, whose ancestors fought for the Americans in the Revolutionary War showed me the speech TR made a long time ago. The old guy is dead now, so I’m glad he never had to learn that his favorite president was part English.
     
    TR was also part Scots; his mother was Martha Bulloch:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Bulloch_Roosevelt



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stephens_Bulloch

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archibald_Bulloch

    In terms of ancestry, TR was 50% Scots, 25% English, and 25% Dutch.

    Very wealthy Protestants from Ulster who married into, or were actually English to begin with, might become WASPs, but the majority of Ulstermen would never be considered WASPs. Read Jim Webb’s ‘Born Fighting’ to see what I mean.
     
    Yes, the Scots-Irish. Interestingly enough, they were commonly called "Anglo-Irish" back in the 18th century. Webb's book is a tad on the romantic side. I would recommend the section on the Backcountry in Fischer's Albion's Seed as a corrective.

    Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine and even New Hampshire, have a long time French presence, from before the Revolutionary War. I have a daughter-in-law who is descended from them..
     
    Catholics? I was under the impression that the bulk of the Catholic Quebecois French in NE date to the 19th century.

    I suppose you’re referring to the Huguenots, but I’m not sure if they’d like being called WASPs, either.
     
    John Jay certainly thought of himself as an Anglo-Saxon.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of the WASPs and the great nation they founded and built. However, in my experience here in NY and around the country, non-English folks, Protestant, Catholic or other, would never refer to themselves as WASPs.
     
    No one likes being called a WASP. Thanks to Hollywood, WASP = evil.

    Replies: @Rich, @Hibernian

    Yes, the Scots-Irish. Interestingly enough, they were commonly called “Anglo-Irish” back in the 18th century.

    The Anglo-Irish were the landlords and belonged to the (Anglican) Church of Ireland. The Scots-Irish, in Ireland, were tenants, brought in to displace and guard against Irish Catholics, and they were Presbyterian and concentrated in Ulster. Many Scots Irish went to Pennsylvania where the pacifist Quakers made use of them to provide a defensive barrier against the Indians. Many of them moved South to Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia. Later generations went west to the South Central and Southwestern states. Some Scots Irish went west to the Midwest from Pennsylvania. A few went from Ulster to northern New England.

    • Replies: @miss marple
    @Hibernian

    You will discover that ethnicity is somewhat malleable. Try getting to the definitive meaning of "black Irish" for instance.

  135. @Hibernian
    @syonredux


    Yes, the Scots-Irish. Interestingly enough, they were commonly called “Anglo-Irish” back in the 18th century.
     
    The Anglo-Irish were the landlords and belonged to the (Anglican) Church of Ireland. The Scots-Irish, in Ireland, were tenants, brought in to displace and guard against Irish Catholics, and they were Presbyterian and concentrated in Ulster. Many Scots Irish went to Pennsylvania where the pacifist Quakers made use of them to provide a defensive barrier against the Indians. Many of them moved South to Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia. Later generations went west to the South Central and Southwestern states. Some Scots Irish went west to the Midwest from Pennsylvania. A few went from Ulster to northern New England.

    Replies: @miss marple

    You will discover that ethnicity is somewhat malleable. Try getting to the definitive meaning of “black Irish” for instance.

  136. Each previous computing machine had been a tour de force of ad hoc design, but Shannon had learned in a philosophy undergrad course that in the 1850s George Boole had invented binary algebra, which would be ideal for electronic devices.

    There existed an entire shelf of books working out Boolean logic, which electrical engineers could adopt wholesale.

    Claude Shannon, in his landmark master’s thesis, however, needed to cite just six papers or books, including a book by A.N. Whitehead, Betrand Russell’s co-author of the voluminous Principia Mathematica, in which, famously, Russell and Whitehead took no fewer than two hundred pages to establish the notion of a couple, essential to get to beyond the notion of one and nothing.

    As it turned out the heart of the symbolic logic theory necessary for logic circuits is contained within a few pages of those citations by Shannon. Part of Shannon’s genius, of course, was to figure out what to use.

    http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/Shannon_MS_Thesis.pdf

    Shannon is famous for Information Theory too, as noted by Mr. Sailer. As he implies, not all major geniuses found two fundamental areas of science.

    Because of those two giant contributions, Shannon’s Ph.D. thesis tends to get overlooked somewhat. It established some of the foundations of the field known today as mathematical biology. That Ph.D. thesis paper by itself would have secured Shannon’s reputation as a first rank scientist, if not as a first rank genius.

    https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/11174/34541447-MIT.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y

  137. @Ringo Starr
    @black sea

    One thing that's not generally appreciated when you see closed-lip smiles (and for men, big moustaches and beards) in portrait photos from a few generations ago is that many people had bad teeth.
    Look at some videos from variety shows from the 1950s and 1960s (e.g., Ed Sullivan, Arthur Godfrey), when the camera resolution was starting to be good enough, and you will be amazed how many singers and other celebrities had really bad teeth (darkened, crooked, missing).
    My older dentist from my childhood used to tell me that when films and television images starting showing sufficient resolution is when people (including the public) started to be really conscious about their teeth. Bigger celebs before then, such as Sinatra, etc... wore caps (vinyl coverings), but the B-list celebrities and politicians didn't.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Bill Jones

    The late Queen Mum in the YUK had bad teeth Dunno what her excuse was.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    @Bill Jones

    Her excuse was very simple: everybody else's in the UK were (and often still are) worse.

    , @Anonymous
    @Bill Jones


    The late Queen Mum in the YUK had bad teeth Dunno what her excuse was.
     
    No tradition of dentistry in the UK.
  138. I have a theory that torture genocide starvation indoctrination climate “change” etc etc are “genius”

  139. @Unladen Swallow
    @Rich

    I believe Shannon was distantly related to Edison, I don't know on what side of his family, but on Wikipedia it just says they were "distant cousins".

    Replies: @Rapparee, @Old Palo Altan

    Quick research on Ancestry.com makes it clear that the connection must be on the father’s side – his mother’s parents were both born in Germany.

    The father’s ancestry is entirely New Jersey-based for well over one hundred years. One of the ancestral names is Potter, probably the state’s leading family historically, but his “branch”, if it be one, is not from the main prosperous and eminent line of Signers and governors and senators, but from one of modest cultivators. The Shannon name goes back to the middle of the 18th century in New Jersey, so the chances are more than good that, even if originally from Ireland, the family would have been Protestant. One source has them as a family originally Scottish which travelled over to Ireland in the middle of the 17th century, and then first to Pennsylvania and quintessentially Scotch-Irish territory there, and then up into New Jersey. A very typical trajectory for families of this sort.

    So: an honorary WASP, to Bush’s perfect exemplar.

  140. @syonredux
    @Rich


    WASP always had an upper class English connotation to me, but I suppose it could have changed.
     
    WASPs come in various flavors:

    Haute-WASP:



    https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/henry-adams-3.png

    https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/5/22/116165983-.jpg

    http://jssgallery.org/Paintings/Mr_and_Mrs_John_Phelps_Stokes/Mr_and_Mrs_John_Phelps_Stokes.jpg


    Bas-WASP:





    http://songmango.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/California-country-okies-guitar.jpg




    https://www.webportal.com/caraveo/ditchbank_okies_port.jpg


    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/17/a8/73/17a873a6aa0fa5190640c5f3f1cf5529--tough-times-hard-times.jpg


    Plus everything in between.....

    . A Shannon or a Wolf or a Van Dyke or a Schmitt or a Ferarro or a Boucher, no matter how pale, would never be called a WASP.

     

    I can definitely see a Wolf, a Van Dyke,a Boucher, or a Shannon getting called a WASP.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Rich, @Old Palo Altan

    Henry Adams, President Eliot, and Isaac Newton Phelps Stokes painted by Sargent – excellent choices, every one.

    But the others are poor white trash, and not part of the picture.

  141. @Bill Jones
    @Ringo Starr

    The late Queen Mum in the YUK had bad teeth Dunno what her excuse was.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan, @Anonymous

    Her excuse was very simple: everybody else’s in the UK were (and often still are) worse.

  142. @Bill Jones
    @Ringo Starr

    The late Queen Mum in the YUK had bad teeth Dunno what her excuse was.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan, @Anonymous

    The late Queen Mum in the YUK had bad teeth Dunno what her excuse was.

    No tradition of dentistry in the UK.

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