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From Bloomberg:

INEQUALITY

How Utah Keeps the American Dream Alive

MARCH 28, 2017 6:00 AM EDT

By Megan McArdle

There’s no getting around it: For a girl raised on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, Salt Lake City is a very weird place.

I went to Utah precisely because it’s weird.

More specifically, because economic data suggest that modest Salt Lake City, population 192,672, does something that the rest of us seem to be struggling with: It helps people move upward from poverty. I went to Utah in search of the American Dream. …

But things look a lot better in Salt Lake City, which economists Raj Chetty, Nathaniel Hendren, Patrick Kline and Emmanuel Saez identified as having the highest rates of absolute upward mobility in the nation. So I went to Utah to discover its secrets and assess whether they could be exported.

Once I got there, I found that it’s hard to even get a complete picture of how Utah combats poverty, because so much of the work is done by the Mormon Church, which does not compile neat stacks of government figures for the perusal of eager reporters. …

Bad news: The wide gulf between Utah and, say, North Carolina implies that we do, in fact, have a real problem on our hands. A child born in the bottom quintile of incomes in Charlotte has only a 4 percent chance of making it into the top quintile. A child in Salt Lake City, on the other hand, has more than a 10.8 percent chance — achingly close to the 11.7 percent found in Denmark and well on the way to the 20 percent chance you would expect in a perfectly just world.

Chetty’s research using your 1040 returns compares the income parents made in 1996-2000 with the income their children earned in 2011-12. He always hopes he’s going to find hugely profound differences but he keeps getting tripped up by obvious regional booms and busts that he doesn’t take into account. Chetty hasn’t yet figured out how to adjust for cyclical ups and downs of different regions, even though somebody else in the history of economic research must have figured out methodological adjustments for this inevitable problem.

For example, the Carolinas were booming in 1996-2000, his base years, on the strength of lumber, furniture, mortgages, real estate development, and golf. But the Carolinas were knocked flat by 2008, so the next generation of Carolinians was doing poorly in 2011-12, his test years, relative to how their parents had been doing in 1996-2000.

Now it could very well be that Utah was doing well in 2011-12 relative to how they were doing in 1996-2000 because of profound strengths of Utah culture and institutions. Or it could be just another regional economic rollercoaster. Chetty doesn’t know and neither do I.

Of course another reason Charlotte had less upward income mobility than Salt Lake City is because of regression toward the mean. Charlotte has more blacks and blacks regress toward the lower black mean of income.

Good news: Because income mobility is not low everywhere, it looks like a problem with a solution. It’s not just a fact of life like earthquakes. If one place can give people a reasonable shot at moving up, then other places could presumably follow suit. If we knew what Salt Lake City was doing right.

Or maybe the whole country used to look a lot like Utah and, back then, we had a solution. But then we broke the country with diversity and now remote Utah is just a rare shard of what we used to have nationwide?

“Big government” does not appear to have been key to Utah’s income mobility. From 1977 to 2005, when the kids in Chetty et al’s data were growing up, the Rockefeller Institute ranks it near the bottom in state “fiscal capacity.” The state has not invested a lot in fighting poverty, nor on schools; Utah is dead last in per-pupil education spending.

Utah’s NAEP school test scores overall are pretty average. But on the other hand, Utah’s NAEP scores are not very good for such a white state.

This should at least give pause to those who view educational programs as the natural path to economic mobility.

But “laissez faire” isn’t the answer either. Utah is a deep red state, but its conservatism is notably compassionate, thanks in part to the Mormon Church. … The state’s compassionate conservatism goes hand-in-hand with an unusually functional bureaucracy. During the week I spent in Utah, I was astonished at how cheerful the civil servants were. … Replicating Utah’s civil service elsewhere might work in theory, but it won’t become reality.

It would involve firing most of the black lady bureaucrats.

… Utah really does have an immense parallel structure that can be counted on to bolster anything the government does on poverty. Its front door is Welfare Square. …

When Chetty et al released their study of levels of income mobility in various parts of America, their most interesting finding was not about “the 1 percent.” In fact, the inequality that best predicted low mobility was within the 99 percent — the distance between a community’s upper middle class and its poorest citizens. …

David Sims, a Brigham Young economist who has done work on income mobility, suggests that the secret to Utah’s especially good mobility is not that it’s especially good at building effective public institutions. What it’s especially good at is a sort of middle classness that’s so broad it’s almost infectious. …

The class of liberal professionals who talk about reducing income inequality are not threatened by talk of taxing the 1 percent. But they would lose out from a broad equalization of incomes between the top 25 percent and the bottom 25 percent. How did Utah manage, then? Well, one viable theory is “it’s Mormon.” Churches form a sort of leveling community. No matter what we do outside, we’re all equal before God. …

Similarly, I wrote back in 2008:

The mainstream Mormon organization in Utah today seem more like a mutual self-help society, sort of a private enterprise Sweden. If you agree to play by their rules, follow their cultural norms, and pay a lot of taxes, excuse me, donations, they’ll round down some of the sharp, competitive corners of modern life for you. The intense and expensive efforts modern Americans make to “insulate, insulate, insulate” their families (as Sherman McCoy’s best friend tells him people who want to raise children in Manhattan must do) are sort of taken care of for you by the Mormon church.

Of course, that’s why Mormons are so Republican — they’ve built themselves a private welfare state, without most of the moral hazard that goes with government welfare states.

For example, consider the admissions process to college, which is pretty maniacal for a lot of families these days. Yet, the statistics on Brigham Young University don’t look much at all like other universities.

These days, colleges are extremely stratified by SAT score, but BYU isn’t like that. The last time I checked (about five years ago), it’s 25th and 75th percentiles of SAT scores were farther apart than just about any other prominent college in the country, meaning that a wide range of kids go there: both the smart Mormon kids and the average Mormon kids.

Back to Megan:

There’s a more troubling theory: that at least some of Utah’s success lies in its lack of racial diversity. Which is itself no accident.

THE RACE FACTOR

One astonishing feature of Utah is how little people talk about race. … No proposal was immediately decried as racist. …

What’s happening here? The state population is now about 13 percent Hispanic, but only 1 percent black. Part of the explanation is probably the Mormon Church’s century of institutional racism. …

When the poor people are, by and large, the same race as the richer ones, people find it easier to talk about them the way they might talk about, well, family members — as folks who may have made some mistakes and started with some disadvantages, but also as folks who could be self-sufficient after a little help from an uncle or a sister. It’s a very different conversation from “victim”/“oppressor” and “us”/“them”: a conversation that recognizes that poor people often make choices that keep them in poverty, but also that the constraints of poverty, including the social environment of poor neighborhoods, make it very difficult to make another choice. …

“In more diverse settings,” suggests Putnam, “Americans distrust not merely people who do not look like them, but even people who do.” Utah’s willingness to help, and its ability to help, may arise from its homogeneity — a trait that won’t be exported to the diverse nation at large. …

When most people are working, the community can help encourage those who are having trouble staying in work by lauding the working man and stigmatizing those who don’t. But when large percentages of the population are out of work, that norm collapses, because people are now being asked to stigmatize large numbers of their family and friends. The result is a vicious circle where work is not only harder to get, but harder to get people to do. Marriage seems to be in just such a state of semi-collapse among large swathes of the population. …

Utah has not entirely escaped the change, but it is relatively insulated; the state leads the nation for marriage and for children with married parents. …

Utah’s unique religious history not only democratized the relationships between the affluent and the struggling; it also democratized marriage, at a time when elsewhere in the U.S., marriage seems to be morphing into an elite institution. Price thinks that gives the state a huge boost in launching kids into the middle class, and Chetty et al’s data back that up.

A fundamental difference about Mormons is that while they ought to be part of the Coalition of the Fringes due to their weird religion, instead they try very hard to be seen as part of Core America due to their aggressive attempts to be normal Americans. It seems to work for them internally en masse, but during this era of Flight from White, it must be galling to some Mormon intellectuals than they can’t be personally profiting from waving the banner of diversity.

Perhaps Evan McMullin foresees a future for himself as the Mormon who leads Mormons to their rightful place in the Coalition of the Fringes.

 
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  1. Mormons and American Indians have something in common: both have largely avoided becoming big parts of the Coalition of the Fringes in part because they are geographically distant from Jewish power centers.

    The American Indians live on reservations scattered through rural America. The Mormons, famously, were chased out of every town they came to (many times very violently) until they finally gave up and took a bunch of worthless, uninhabited land in Utah that nobody wanted and was in the middle of nowhere.

    Without Jews around from big cities like NYC, Chicago, Boston, etc., there isn’t much of an attempt to organize them into a top-down grievance group seeking goodies via the DNC.

    Makes me think my idea of re-settling American blacks in Western sub-saharan Africa would immediately see a drop in blacks’ greivance group activities.

    • Replies: @fitzGetty
    @whorefinder

    News just coming in ;
    Child sex ring arrested in Oxford, England.
    and :
    Child sex gang arrested in Banbury, Oxfordshire, England.

    Replies: @nglaer, @anon

  2. if you were BORN AND RAISED on the Upper West Side, you’re not from any seriously real money.

    Having a view of the railroad-car stockyards is rather different than having a view of the Central Park Zoo.

    But I guess it’s better than growing up in the Bronx. you have a view of the Fulton Fish Market.

    • Disagree: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Karl

    A total slum:

    http://wikitravel.org/upload/shared//thumb/a/a6/Manhattan_upperwestside_building.jpg/300px-Manhattan_upperwestside_building.jpg

    Replies: @Karl

    , @benjaminl
    @Karl

    I don't believe she's ever claimed to be "from money" of any sort. Her dad was a kind of higher-up infrastructure lawyer.

    http://www.alternet.org/story/141802/anti-government_ideologue_megan_mcardle's_amnesia_about_her_privileged,_govt.-funded_upbringing

    Along with all the other white people who moved to the inner city in the 1970s, her parents were willing to live amongst a good deal of chaos and crime in order to be in the city.

    She's also written on occasion about her Irish heritage, and encountering rank anti-Irish bigotry from old-school WASPs.

    The difference between Megan and SJWs is that such experiences didn't fill her with resentment against The Man, but rather she maintained some perspective and equanimity.

    The most "snobby" thing about her perspective is her Extreme Foodieism, but she has an appropriate perspective on that too and is not snobby about it. Zabar's was probably the most SWPL thing about her childhood.

    , @anonymous
    @Karl

    I believe that Megan Mac is a libertarian--something of a rarity in the traditionally Jewish Far Left Upper West Side. I am hearing, though, that the times they are a-changin' in the UWS. The old Jews are dying off and Morningside Heights to the north (which is almost exclusively "Latino") is creeping south while Harlem to the east becomes more and more gentrified as the blacks are being given their Section-8 tickets to what used to be called "suburbia" (a phenomenon about which Steve has written at considerable length).

    Replies: @SFG

    , @George
    @Karl

    "Having a view of the railroad-car stockyards is rather different than having a view of the Central Park Zoo."

    First let me point out the trains in NYC are now zero emission electric and almost noiseless. Double pane windows and AC have done wonders for livability in New York City. Since the mid 90s no area of NYC has been really bad. Compare with NYC suburbs like Brentwood the MS-13 murder capital of the US. That may change if there is another financial crisis but it seems NY state pensions are actually comparatively well funded in comparison to everywhere else. See pensionTsunami.com for info on where you live. You may be surprised at how underfunded your local police pension scheme is.

    There is a snobby NYC joke: Sure the view from my bedroom window is a brick wall. But on the other side of that brick wall is New York City. Queue Frankie singing NY NY.

    , @Jimi
    @Karl

    I don't think Megan McArdle claims to have "serious money." But growing up on the UWS in a doorman building in that era meant you were slightly less affluent and quite more Bohemian than than the UES folks.

    , @Yak-15
    @Karl

    The Bronx has nice parts. Lots of natural features and topography. It's the population in most areas of the Bronx that makes it slummy. Check it out some time. (Driving, during the day)

    Replies: @Daniel H, @Karl

    , @SFG
    @Karl

    Parts of the Upper West Side are extremely affluent. Manhattan was notorious for having slums a few blocks from rich people for a while.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Karl

    Who cares? They're all just a bunch of New Yorkers. We don't discriminate where I live - we don't like ANY New Yorkers - "West side, East side, "everybody's coming down ...." Well, that reminds me: we like the Mets.

    , @Forbes
    @Karl

    The dilemma for McArdle, having declared as from the Upper West Side and thinks Utah is weird, most of the rest of the country thinks the Upper West Side is weird, squared--and yet the lopsidedness of that relationship completely escapes her. Seems like a huge bling spot, and a certain naivety.


    There’s a more troubling theory: that at least some of Utah’s success lies in its lack of racial diversity.
     
    McArdle says "bug" where everyone else sees "feature." Imagine her diagnosis of Japan...
  3. @Karl
    if you were BORN AND RAISED on the Upper West Side, you're not from any seriously real money.

    Having a view of the railroad-car stockyards is rather different than having a view of the Central Park Zoo.

    But I guess it's better than growing up in the Bronx. you have a view of the Fulton Fish Market.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @benjaminl, @anonymous, @George, @Jimi, @Yak-15, @SFG, @Achmed E. Newman, @Forbes

    A total slum:

    • Replies: @Karl
    @Steve Sailer

    3 isteve > {some skyscraper}

    nice collection of picture-postcards you got there, sonny-boy.

    i'll tell all the Dominican ladies at Broadway and 127th Street that you're jealous of their non-rent-controlled apartments.

  4. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    ‘3 Wives, 1 Husband’ was shown on TV here in England a few days ago. Based in Utah. So proud of thhr Mormons – must be the only Germanic group left with a very high birth rate (one man had 17 kids), uncucked, civilized. Kudos Mormons. Wish I could go there ti escape the PC hole Londonistan.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Anon

    Polygamous societies are social disasters.

    Replies: @Seamus Padraig

    , @Wilkey
    @Anon

    Polygamous families in Utah are, for the most part, welfare parasites. Monogamous marriages contribute far more to Utah's relatively high white birthrate than polygamous marriages. Polygamists are perhaps 2% of the state's population. One good thing to come out of Utah's latest legislative session is that the state has strengthened laws against polygamous families.

    Replies: @MNL, @Hugh, @pyrrhus

    , @stillCARealist
    @Anon

    Do they ever have shows about polygamous Moslem families in Europe or elsewhere? My guess would be NO.

    There might even be such families in your own backyard.

    , @Anonymous
    @Anon

    Polygamy by Mormons in the U.S. was outlawed a long time.

  5. “Or maybe the whole country used to look a lot like Utah and, back then, we had a solution. But then we broke the country with diversity”

    You can confirm your thesis by checking the *trend* in income mobility in Sweden, relative to its neighbors, right?

    I’d say you could also compare the trend in US vs Canada, but I’m not sure what your thesis would predict for Canada — more immigration but, also, more selective immigration.

  6. MW says:

    I’m surprised you didn’t quote this damning section from the article:

    “This combination of financial help and the occasional verbal kick in the pants is something close to what the ideal of government help used to be. Social workers used to make individual judgments about what sort of help their clients needed or deserved. But such judgments always have an inherently subjective and arbitrary quality, which courts began to frown on in the middle of the 20th century, in part because they offered considerable discretion for racial discrimination.”

    The casualties of the War for Racial Equality are mind-boggling. Utah remains an almost-painful example of What Could Have Been.

    Overall, great article by McArdle. She couldn’t have written this if she were still at The Atlantic.

    • Replies: @Ed
    @MW

    Best column of the year.

    When the media interview the first public housing tenants in cities like NYC they'll say the projects declined when they stopped doing home interviews.

    Funny thing is that mixed income lottery programs in NYC do home interviews for prospective low income tenants. I wonder why lol?

  7. Of course, they set their barriers for access to said welfare state pretty high. The people who can’t adhere to their norms get quietly…persuaded to leave.

    The Hawaiians give their homeless plane tickets. New York and Chicago give their poor Sectio 8 vouchers. The Utans just won’t give them welfare, and tend to get very,very pissy indeed if, say, someone who’s there for drug addiction treatment looks like they might want to stay afterwards.

  8. One day the mormons will build an interstellar ship and leave Earth behind.

    http://expanse.wikia.com/wiki/Nauvoo

    • Replies: @CK
    @Pseudonymic Handle

    Somebody will. If not the Mormons then some other similar group.

  9. Will any politician ever dare to suggest that that chip on the shoulder attitude of blacks is a large part of what’s holding them back?

    • Replies: @MW
    @Shouting Thomas

    Ben Carson says it.

    , @MBlanc46
    @Shouting Thomas

    Not one who expects to be heard, to say nothing of getting elected.

    , @Father O'Hara
    @Shouting Thomas

    Are they held back? Massive welfare and government employment and constant threats and recriminations seems to be a darn good strategy for them. I can't see them doing better on their own.

  10. Anonymous [AKA "Anc"] says:

    Funny, you should say they created a private enterprise Sweden, given how many Mormans are of Scandanavian descent.

  11. In Braveheart the villainous English king semi-jokingly complains that the problem with Scotland is that, “it’s full of Scots!” McArdle goes right up to that line but stops just short of acknowledging, “Utah is full of Utahans!”

  12. @Anon
    '3 Wives, 1 Husband' was shown on TV here in England a few days ago. Based in Utah. So proud of thhr Mormons - must be the only Germanic group left with a very high birth rate (one man had 17 kids), uncucked, civilized. Kudos Mormons. Wish I could go there ti escape the PC hole Londonistan.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @Wilkey, @stillCARealist, @Anonymous

    Polygamous societies are social disasters.

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    The Mormons banned polygamy more than a century ago. Only the tiny outlaw sects still practice it.

    Replies: @Sideways

  13. @Shouting Thomas
    Will any politician ever dare to suggest that that chip on the shoulder attitude of blacks is a large part of what's holding them back?

    Replies: @MW, @MBlanc46, @Father O'Hara

    Ben Carson says it.

  14. Having worked with many Black professionals, I’ve noticed that the most aggrieved among them seem to believe that Whites are given the good things in life. Whites do not work for the good things in life … the good things are gifted to them. White privilege of course. Therefore, equity requires that Blacks also be gifted the good things of life simply because they are Black. To deny them these gifts would be racist.

    As one of these professionals once explained to me in an office drawing, “Think of a pie. This is the White piece and this is the Black piece. I’m Black, so this is my piece … end of discussion.”

    I guess he never stretched his imagination to wonder who bought the ingredients and baked the pie in the first place. Nonetheless, justice demands, he says, that as a Black he should also be gifted the sweet things in life created by Western civilization … which in his case might be a degree from an Ivy League university and a BMW.

    Over the years, I’ve often supposed the greatest gift I could give a Black person is to teach him how to think like a White person. Then, perhaps, he might recognize the hard work and commitment associated with White privilege.

    • Replies: @Yak-15
    @TheJester

    I have a friend, no joke, who applied to several high-end law schools. He was rejected by every one except the one in which he listed his enthnicity as Latino. At that one he received a 100 pct scholarship (worth 150k) and a hand written letter begging him to come from the Dean.

    If that isn't privilege I do not know what is.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Triumph104

    , @Pat Boyle
    @TheJester

    When I was young I worked for a government agency. There was a big Civil Service classification called Analyst. We had a black guy who was an Analyst. I'll call him Leroy because his name was in fact Leroy.

    Leroy was not too bright. He couldn't pass the civil service Analyst test. So he and a Mexican guy named Pete sued the county and were made analysts by fiat. Everyone liked Pete, who was always smiling and happy even though he was really deeply stupid. But Leroy had a depressive personality. He was always glum. He dressed well and was polite but he seldom left his cubicle and even more seldom did any work.

    He couldn't do the work because he also was stupid. The civil service test was correct. These two should never have been hired. Leroy spent essentially every day sitting in his cubicle smoking (this was a while ago).

    You have to understand that I wasn't an Analyst. I was hired to do statistical analyses and then I supervised the accounting section. Civil Service Analysts were not expected to be able to handle numbers in any form. I introduced microcomputers to my agency and the professional staff then could use the word processing software for their communications. But Leroy wouldn't touch the computer. He wrote everything out in pencil and gave it to a clerk to type up. Everyone else adapted to personal computers except Leroy.

    Leroy was given almost no tasks. He couldn't do anything and his boss realized that. So Leroy came to work every day and sat at his desk and smoked.

    Then one day a black federal bureaucrat came by and I overheard his conversation with Leroy. He was asked how things were in local government and Leroy said that everything was typical. There was a lot of racism and white people wouldn't let him get ahead. I was stunned. Leroy thought that he was a victim. He was in fact a parasite who was only holding a job because he had got someone to play the system for him.

    But about a year later Leroy, who was a young man in what we all thought was good health, suddenly had a stroke and was paralyzed in one side of his body. I figured he was struck down by a massive case of cognitive dissonance. His ideas of self were so far from reality they damaged his brain.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    , @Ed
    @TheJester

    I've noticed this too and must admit I subscribed to it in my younger years (I'm black). It wasn't until I got into corporate America that I understood that management isn't easy.

    The problem is that whites make it all seem so easy in terms of management. Most blacks think they can do it too not realizing that every small detail matters. We tend to like the show of grandeur as opposed to the ugly details required for such appearances.

    Replies: @SFG

  15. Mormons are from Puritan stock. High education, high social trust. Same as New England folks that run Harvard and high culture America.

    This is like looking at Ashkenazi Jewish community or Cantonese diaspora Han. It works for them but not everyone is so bookish.

    • Replies: @gregor
    @Hodag

    The religion has Protestant New England roots (both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young being from that region) but only a very small percentage of those that settled Utah were of literal Puritan stock.

    "As the Church spread through Europe, tens of thousands of new converts emigrated to America, leaving everything behind them for their faith and desire to be with fellow members. Of the 60,000 to 70,000 Saints who emigrated to the Salt Lake Valley in the late 1800s, more than 98 percent of the survivors were from Europe, and 75 percent were from Britain."

    https://history.lds.org/article/pioneer-story-the-convert-immigrants-?lang=eng

    So mostly Anglo with a good dose of Scandinavian, but most immigrated from Europe in the mid 19th century.

    Replies: @Hodag

    , @Flip
    @Hodag

    New England Protestants haven't run Harvard or high culture America for a long time.

  16. There is something to be said for the Mormon church’s compassion for the less fortunate; something that mainstream Protestant churches would do well to emulate. Instead, Middle America Protestantism seems to have be infected by so-called “Prosperity Gospel” teachings. The big downside of those teachings is that if you aren’t doing well in life financially, not only is there the presumption of laziness and lack of effort on your part, but a failure of moral character as well. I’m sure those attitudes haven’t helped at all with the White Death.

  17. The lack of nationalism/populism leads to higher economic inequality.

  18. Dahlia says:

    “Perhaps Evan McMullin foresees a future for himself as the Mormon who leads Mormons to their rightful place in the Coalition of the Fringes.”

    Yes. Will Utah follow New England in their Protestant liberalism? They’re so similar, as their politicians have made clear this election, but Mormons have that pagan sensibility with collectivist ethos as opposed to, say, New England Unitarianism. Very peculiar because they don’t remind me of the High Germans who are very down-to-earth.

    • Replies: @David
    @Dahlia

    This is one strange comment. Maybe it makes sense. Anyone?

  19. I summarized McArdle’s article thusly:

    (1) The group evolutionary strategy of (white) Mormons

    (2) The paucity of blacks

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @countenance

    To which I would add "and of minorities in general."

  20. ” we broke the country with diversity”

    When did this happen? If your end of the 1950s nostagic paradise was 1965 because of the immigration act, it was also the year of Rolling Thunder, the unlimited US commitment to losing wars and lost causes, in this case Vietnam. After Vietnam new losing wars and lost causes were found, and conviently the inevitable refugee flows from non European nations could be resettled.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rolling_Thunder

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    @George

    Your argument seems to be that there were multiple causes of a broken nation via diversity. And of course there were. Some, like Hart-Cellar and refusal to enforce immigration law were direct, intentional, and catastrophic, others indirect and less significant. So what is your quarrel with Steve? How to you classify Eisenhower, who is responsible for committing the U.S. to stop the spread of Communism in Indochina and also responsible for Operation Wetback?

    , @AnotherDad
    @George


    ... and conviently the inevitable refugee flows from non European nations could be resettled.
     
    Yawn. This has essentially *nothing* to do with ... anything.

    Refugee flows when there's a war might be inevitable--at some level. But taking them into the West is not. To the extent we took people in that was a choice.

    However, this isn't even the main problem--source of immigration and diversity--in the West. Not even in Europe, and much, much less in the US. Mexico was not the site of one of our big Cold War dust ups with the commies.

    And finally ... Operation Rolling Thunder had nothing to do with the refugee flows. That was the code name of the bombing campaign against North Vietnam. We indeed bombed them a whole bunch. We bombed, they--as best they could--built stuff back. Repeat again and again. But they were not the refugees. The refugees were people from the South--a bunch of folks who had worked with the US (like the Hmong), a bunch of overseas Chinese types and a bunch of folks who didn't like what communism had in store for them.

    Operation Rolling Thunder's impact on our diversity ... zero.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  21. Here’s a reason you’re unlikely to see mentioned, but I believe is a factor. There are a lot of Mormons who make lifestyle decisions based on religious dogma. I grew up in a small town in Utah, and there were a lot of middle or lower-middle class families who had six or seven kids, where the mother was clearly bright enough to be able have earned a good salary and the father was perhaps making career limiting decisions to focus on his family.

    The next generation gets the work ethic and intelligence of the parents, but doesn’t always make the same decisions. So suddenly a kid from that family is working as a doctor or married to a fellow professional. The relative poverty of his parents was a personal choice, but it shows up in the social mobility statistics.

    I’m sure this happens everywhere, but with the previous insistence that women remain in the home if at all possible and the emphasis on big families, I think it’s much more common in Utah than elsewhere.

  22. 1950s America was 88-90% white. Utah as of 2010 was 86.1% white. So you have a population still very similar demographically to what America was like before the 1965 Act. Not surprisingly many of the traditional values of self help and enterprise are still very evident.
    As the composition of the population changes, so will its values.

  23. “China has an irrational well founded fear of black immigrants bringing drugs, crime and interracial marriage marriage competition for Chinese women.
    https://qz.com/945053/china-has-an-irrational-fear-of-a-black-invasion-bringing-drugs-crime-and-interracial-marriage/

    The comments from the professors at western universities are the best. Almost every one is a direct inversion of empirical reality. “Black people are falsely stereotyped as [doing things black people do a lot of]”, from rape (Elbridge Cleaver) to getting girls pregnant and abandoning them (Barack Obama Sr), to using drugs and being out late at night in groups, going to nightclubs, having higher rates of AIDS and Ebola. C’mon, everybody knows black people never do those things.

    “Their perception was that I was somehow better than a black person from Africa because of my Americanness. Part of this is rooted in… mistaken beliefs of American wealth and power versus stereotypes of African poverty and suffering.”

    “Mistaken” must be how the hip kids say “entirely and completely accurate” these days.

    • Agree: MBlanc46
    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    @Discordiax


    If their population [keeps growing], China will change from a nation-state to an immigration country, from a yellow country to a black-and-yellow country.
     
    Is it okay to use the Y-word these days, or is it only okay for Asians? Or only Asian-Asians, not Asian-Americans?
    , @a reader
    @Discordiax

    Thanks for this interesting story, Discordiax.

    I enjoyed this passage most:

    the notion that black people are “taking over” the world’s most populous nation is nonsense.

    Estimates for the number of sub-Saharan Africans in Guangzhou (nicknamed “Chocolate City” in Chinese) range from ... [here I was expecting a few hundreds or at most a couple thousands] ... 150,000 long-term residents, according to 2014 government statistics, to as high as 300,000—figures complicated by the number of Africans coming in and out of the country as well as those who overstay their visas.

    How irrational of you to be afraid of 1/3 million Africans in your midst!

    Guangzhou (aka Canton) has 13 million inhabitants, but still.

    Replies: @Triumph104

  24. This should be rolled out in pathetic Pine Ridge …

  25. @Anon
    '3 Wives, 1 Husband' was shown on TV here in England a few days ago. Based in Utah. So proud of thhr Mormons - must be the only Germanic group left with a very high birth rate (one man had 17 kids), uncucked, civilized. Kudos Mormons. Wish I could go there ti escape the PC hole Londonistan.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @Wilkey, @stillCARealist, @Anonymous

    Polygamous families in Utah are, for the most part, welfare parasites. Monogamous marriages contribute far more to Utah’s relatively high white birthrate than polygamous marriages. Polygamists are perhaps 2% of the state’s population. One good thing to come out of Utah’s latest legislative session is that the state has strengthened laws against polygamous families.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @MNL
    @Wilkey

    You say perhaps 2% of Utah's marriages are polygamist? That's still 10x too high. It's somewhat like the statistics on transexualism. The odd, purient nature of it tends inflate our estimates of its prevalence.

    Replies: @Wilkey

    , @Hugh
    @Wilkey

    Although I'm no fan of polygamy, I prefer it to gay marriage. I would rather see a child adopted by a polygamous family than by a gay couple.

    How long the anti-polygamy laws can last I do not know.

    Replies: @syonredux

    , @pyrrhus
    @Wilkey

    Exactly right. Most Mormons don't approve of polygamy....
    Megan McArdle also missed the fact that Salt Lake itself is majority non Mormon...

    Replies: @Wilkey

  26. @whorefinder
    Mormons and American Indians have something in common: both have largely avoided becoming big parts of the Coalition of the Fringes in part because they are geographically distant from Jewish power centers.

    The American Indians live on reservations scattered through rural America. The Mormons, famously, were chased out of every town they came to (many times very violently) until they finally gave up and took a bunch of worthless, uninhabited land in Utah that nobody wanted and was in the middle of nowhere.

    Without Jews around from big cities like NYC, Chicago, Boston, etc., there isn't much of an attempt to organize them into a top-down grievance group seeking goodies via the DNC.

    Makes me think my idea of re-settling American blacks in Western sub-saharan Africa would immediately see a drop in blacks' greivance group activities.

    Replies: @fitzGetty

    News just coming in ;
    Child sex ring arrested in Oxford, England.
    and :
    Child sex gang arrested in Banbury, Oxfordshire, England.

    • Replies: @nglaer
    @fitzGetty

    No surprises in who was arrested

    , @anon
    @fitzGetty

    10,000s of children just in the UK

    same going on in Holland, France, Germany etc

    the media-political class doing everything they can to cover it up

    coming to the USA

  27. maybe the whole country used to look a lot like Utah

    The Mormons live clean, go to church, have kids, go all in for self help and enterprise, and hard work. Their kids don’t listen to thug rap or play video games. Moms love being moms. Gender dysphoria unknown.

    Mormons always have been upright, living a bit distant from the gentiles, who often find their religion hocus-pocus. My father, born a gentile in Utah in 1914, noted and admired this benevolent, socially constructive attitude in spite of theology. You see it in Idaho too, e.g., Boise.

    Secularists, expressive individuals, and diversity worshippers are puzzled by Mormon social outcomes? The American middle used to be more upright / “straight” / “square.”

    Hollywood and New York media always eager to “expose” Mormon darkness and weird, like polygamy. It gives them a shiver.

    • Replies: @CJ
    @drahthaar


    Mormons always have been upright, living a bit distant from the gentiles, who often find their religion hocus-pocus. My father, born a gentile in Utah in 1914, noted and admired this benevolent, socially constructive attitude in spite of theology. You see it in Idaho too, e.g., Boise.

    Secularists, expressive individuals, and diversity worshippers are puzzled by Mormon social outcomes? The American middle used to be more upright / “straight” / “square.”
     
    Yes. I worked in Idaho for a few months in the 1990s, observed the same, and liked it. The local motto then was, "Idaho is what America used to be."

    Replies: @Jack D, @Autochthon

  28. @Karl
    if you were BORN AND RAISED on the Upper West Side, you're not from any seriously real money.

    Having a view of the railroad-car stockyards is rather different than having a view of the Central Park Zoo.

    But I guess it's better than growing up in the Bronx. you have a view of the Fulton Fish Market.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @benjaminl, @anonymous, @George, @Jimi, @Yak-15, @SFG, @Achmed E. Newman, @Forbes

    I don’t believe she’s ever claimed to be “from money” of any sort. Her dad was a kind of higher-up infrastructure lawyer.

    http://www.alternet.org/story/141802/anti-government_ideologue_megan_mcardle’s_amnesia_about_her_privileged,_govt.-funded_upbringing

    Along with all the other white people who moved to the inner city in the 1970s, her parents were willing to live amongst a good deal of chaos and crime in order to be in the city.

    She’s also written on occasion about her Irish heritage, and encountering rank anti-Irish bigotry from old-school WASPs.

    The difference between Megan and SJWs is that such experiences didn’t fill her with resentment against The Man, but rather she maintained some perspective and equanimity.

    The most “snobby” thing about her perspective is her Extreme Foodieism, but she has an appropriate perspective on that too and is not snobby about it. Zabar’s was probably the most SWPL thing about her childhood.

  29. So, basically, the Mormons has created a separate system/society along the lines of what I’ve suggested whites in general do.

    The encouraging part is that it shows that it can be done. The discouraging part is that it also shows that whites likely need something beyond just the desire to preserve their people (in this case, religion) to create such a world.

    Then again, perhaps I’m being a tad harsh of my fellow whites. The vast, vast majority of whites either have no clue that we’re in danger of losing our people or have been so indoctrinated into “diversity” that they simple believe this is normal. I suppose that the real test will happen when upper middle class whites – the ones who organize things and get shit done – can no longer insulate, insulate, insulate. At that point, the people with the capability to fight back will either choose to do so or sacrifice their children, assuming that they have any children.

    The examples of Texas and California suggest that whites will gently into that good night, but the Mormons show that their his hope.

    • Replies: @Marty T
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    It seems like North Carolina may have the least cucked whites in America. With all the demographic change in that state, Trump's 4 point win is borderline remarkable. The conservatives in that state seem to be willing to fight and do what it takes. Well that is unless the NCAA objects...

  30. Something this piece briefly touches on, but is frequently ignored in the MSM, despite being hugely important, is how Earl Warren and his heirs laid the foundations for the dysfunction of the modern welfare state.

    Just one example: Welfare bureaucrats used to be able to make moral judgments about their cases. They could say no to scammers and shiftless layabouts. But now they can’t, because Racism.

    My takeaway from this story: Big government could actually help foster social stability, if paired with lots of moralism and paternalism. Of course, when Steve said that about New Orleans and Katrina, it didn’t go over so well…

    Meanwhile, a tweetstorm about Pence, Kant and Calvin

    • Replies: @Marty T
    @benjaminl

    Conservatives' highest priority must be making it easier to remove judges, at all levels. They act like kings and have no accountability.

    , @The Last Real Calvinist
    @benjaminl


    Just one example: Welfare bureaucrats used to be able to make moral judgments about their cases. They could say no to scammers and shiftless layabouts. But now they can’t, because Racism.
     
    Marvin Olasky's book The Tragedy of American Compassion is an excellent analsyis of exactly this phenomenon. He shows how a web of mostly Christian social service organizations did a pretty good job of providing 'welfare', broadly defined, for decades, roughly from the latter years of the 19th century up till about the 1930s.

    The key to these organizations' success in both relieving the needy's immediate crises and rehabilitating them/giving the a real head start was judgement. In simple terms, they drew distinctions between the deserving and undeserving poor.

    'Judging people' is now, of course, anathema.
  31. @Wilkey
    @Anon

    Polygamous families in Utah are, for the most part, welfare parasites. Monogamous marriages contribute far more to Utah's relatively high white birthrate than polygamous marriages. Polygamists are perhaps 2% of the state's population. One good thing to come out of Utah's latest legislative session is that the state has strengthened laws against polygamous families.

    Replies: @MNL, @Hugh, @pyrrhus

    You say perhaps 2% of Utah’s marriages are polygamist? That’s still 10x too high. It’s somewhat like the statistics on transexualism. The odd, purient nature of it tends inflate our estimates of its prevalence.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @MNL

    You say perhaps 2% of Utah’s marriages are polygamist? That’s still 10x too high. It’s somewhat like the statistics on transexualism. The odd, purient nature of it tends inflate our estimates of its prevalence.

    The last estimates I read, about 5 years ago, were that about 50,000 people (husbands, wives, their children) in Utah were living in polygamous families. That may have already been an old estimate at the time. That's about 1.7% of Utah's current population. That was an official estimate, sfaik, not some random guesstimate someone pulled out of their rear. It's possible it may overestimate the actual number 2-3 fold, but it certainly isn't 10x as high.

    Believe me, there are a lot of them out there. The population of Hildale, Utah is about 3,000. There are another 4,800 or so across the border in Colorado City, Arizona. There are scattered bands, small and large, all across Salt Lake County, and probably in every other county in Utah, as well.

    Those who think polygamy is some great kind of way to fortify the gene pool or boost white birthrates are kidding themselves. Getting people to marry earlier, making it easier for mother's to work less (or not at all) outside of the home, showing greater respect to women who choose to be mothers - those are the ways to boost white birthrates, not polygamy.

  32. Utah is starting to sound like the last, best place for Core Americans. Too bad a girl interested in being a nice Mormon stay at home mom probably wouldn’t marry an atheist like myself…..

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @IAmCorn

    A lot of Mormon belief in Mormonism, at least in private, comes down to what you believe the meaning of "believe" is. Most intelligent Mormons believe in Mormonism the way especially nerdy Star Trek or Star Wars fans believe in Star Trek or Star Wars. There is a suspension of disbelief on a certain level.

    Replies: @Jack D

  33. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Karl
    if you were BORN AND RAISED on the Upper West Side, you're not from any seriously real money.

    Having a view of the railroad-car stockyards is rather different than having a view of the Central Park Zoo.

    But I guess it's better than growing up in the Bronx. you have a view of the Fulton Fish Market.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @benjaminl, @anonymous, @George, @Jimi, @Yak-15, @SFG, @Achmed E. Newman, @Forbes

    I believe that Megan Mac is a libertarian–something of a rarity in the traditionally Jewish Far Left Upper West Side. I am hearing, though, that the times they are a-changin’ in the UWS. The old Jews are dying off and Morningside Heights to the north (which is almost exclusively “Latino”) is creeping south while Harlem to the east becomes more and more gentrified as the blacks are being given their Section-8 tickets to what used to be called “suburbia” (a phenomenon about which Steve has written at considerable length).

    • Replies: @SFG
    @anonymous

    Lots of libertarians were Jewish. Read Murray Rothbard's Sociology of the Ayn Rand Cult--it's really quite funny.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/murray-n-rothbard/understanding-ayn-randianism/

    Replies: @PV van der Byl, @anonymous, @jack ryan

  34. I’m struck by the comment in the article about how cheerful the civil servants were. I once had a teacher who had lived in Salt Lake City in her past. She once mentioned how the snowplow trucks were out seemingly at the snap of a finger if a flake fell to the ground. I don’t think she cared for Utah’s social conservatism (teachers are a liberal bunch) but she did seem to think the state was well run from a plain old good government perspective.

  35. @countenance
    I summarized McArdle's article thusly:

    (1) The group evolutionary strategy of (white) Mormons

    (2) The paucity of blacks

    Replies: @anonymous

    To which I would add “and of minorities in general.”

  36. I still remember crossing into Utah, back in the 1980s when I took a cross country bus ride from Boston to San Francisco. In the hundreds of miles Before Utah there were nothing but ramshackle, sun-bleached fences and outbuildings in the midst of parched looking fields. Entering Utah, the vista changed to verdant grass and crops; well-kept, white-painted, plank fences; and houses, barns, and outbuildings that would have met zoning standards in all but the toniest neighborhoods. It was like a surreal transitions taken from the movie, “The Wizard of Oz”.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Most of Utah is a big ol' desert. Plenty of rocks, too. The Great Salt Lake? Tahoe it ain't.

    Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...

  37. Utah is only 13th on the list of White percentage.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans

    WV is third and has been perpetually poor.

    ME is second and has never been well off.

    It’s Mormonism.

    • Agree: MW
    • Replies: @Ed
    @anony-mouse

    Good point & WV has the highest black % of the 3 states at a robust, 3.4%. So blacks aren't a factor. Maybe the American Nations theory is also a driver of this theory? Maine has a large French Canadian group that has historically struggled. WV is dominated by the quarrelsome Scot-Irish.

    Replies: @Jack D, @midtown, @Triumph104, @David Davenport

    , @Mr. Anon
    @anony-mouse

    "ME is second and has never been well off."

    Maine isn't exactly yankeestan - i.e. a hell-hole - either.

    , @Seamus Padraig
    @anony-mouse

    Mormonism is now the fastest-growing in Brazil, which is not a terribly white country. A generation or two from now, it'll be interesting to see what becomes of the Brazilian Mormons. This could once and for all settle the question of whether Mormonism's success is inherently racial or inherently cultural.

    Replies: @syonredux

    , @syonredux
    @anony-mouse


    Utah is only 13th on the list of White percentage.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans

    WV is third and has been perpetually poor.

    ME is second and has never been well off.

    It’s Mormonism.
     
    I suggest that you read Albion's Seed sometime, dear fellow. White populations are not identical.....
  38. as Sherman McCoy’s best friend tells him people who want to raise children in Manhattan must do

    I don’t remember that Sherman had any friends at all.

  39. It would involve firing most of the black lady bureaucrats.

    I was downright astonished at the speed, competence, and courtesy of the DMV in Maine; it blew my mind and compares to no other experience in any of the other seven states’ DMVs I’ve had dealings with – it was like dealing with a concierge at a nice hotel! Of course, I also only ever knew of and saw one black person in the entire county. (Doubtless the Somali invasion has since fixed this problem….)

  40. Anonymous [AKA "XY"] says:

    But is deep-stater Egg McMuffin really an official Mormon?

    It seems very obvious that Evan McMullin is a (barely) closeted homosexual. At the very least, as unmarried bachelor in his 40s he is not following the Golden Plates.

    It seems like the Latter Day Saints frown upon butt piracy. Even in the current year. Which is why he got less votes than Hillary.

  41. @Wilkey
    @Anon

    Polygamous families in Utah are, for the most part, welfare parasites. Monogamous marriages contribute far more to Utah's relatively high white birthrate than polygamous marriages. Polygamists are perhaps 2% of the state's population. One good thing to come out of Utah's latest legislative session is that the state has strengthened laws against polygamous families.

    Replies: @MNL, @Hugh, @pyrrhus

    Although I’m no fan of polygamy, I prefer it to gay marriage. I would rather see a child adopted by a polygamous family than by a gay couple.

    How long the anti-polygamy laws can last I do not know.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Hugh


    Although I’m no fan of polygamy, I prefer it to gay marriage. I would rather see a child adopted by a polygamous family than by a gay couple.
     
    Scylla and Charybdis. Both mus be fought.
  42. @Wilkey
    @Anon

    Polygamous families in Utah are, for the most part, welfare parasites. Monogamous marriages contribute far more to Utah's relatively high white birthrate than polygamous marriages. Polygamists are perhaps 2% of the state's population. One good thing to come out of Utah's latest legislative session is that the state has strengthened laws against polygamous families.

    Replies: @MNL, @Hugh, @pyrrhus

    Exactly right. Most Mormons don’t approve of polygamy….
    Megan McArdle also missed the fact that Salt Lake itself is majority non Mormon…

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @pyrrhus

    "Megan McArdle also missed the fact that Salt Lake itself is majority non Mormon…"

    Yep. Does the data she cites include only Salt Lake City proper, which has less than 200,000 people, or is it for the entire county (1 million+) or for the metro area which is somewhat larger than the county?

    She also reports that many young Mormon missionaries (i.e., the ones who go around age 18-19) do service missions. That isn't true. All young Mormon missionaries are on proselyting missions, sfaik. The "service missions" are reserved for older people, who usually do it after retirement and often stay in their hometowns rather than traveling abroad.

    The Mormon Church itself is increasingly wasteful and corrupt. It's been captured by the same union of political correctness and the cheap labor lobby that has conquered so many other American institutions. You can pretty much be assured that the LDS Church won't be standing up to the multicult for a good long time to come. The days when the church opposed gay marriage and the idiotic ERA are over.

  43. List of Utah national merit semifinalists:

    Remarkably few Chinese and Indians.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @International Jew

    It's also a remarkably short list for an entire state with 3 million people.

    In my area there's one high school that gets over 30 every year out of a feeder population of 40,000, so extrapolated to a whole state of equally smart people there would be over 2,000 semifinalists.

    Of course the semifinalists are around 80% Asian, with the rest white, 0% black and Hispanic:

    http://myemail.constantcontact.com/CHS-Leads-PA-in-National-Merit-Semifinalists--9-20-Finance-Committee-Meeting--Calendar-Reminder--Upcoming-Meeting-Dates.html?soid=1102666461552&aid=k6pAVhg_DM4

    They do have something called "National Hispanic Scholar" with a lower cutoff. I think there is one for blacks also. A girl from my daughter's high school won that one (both of her parents are doctors) and she joked about it to the other girls "I'm pretty smart....for a black person."

    The College Board used to release these lists for every state but now they have disappeared. They used to send around a press release and local papers would pick it up. Their website says "it's up to each high school to release the names of their finalists". I assume that the composition of the finalists is some kind of hate fact that must no longer be publicized.

    Replies: @candid_observer, @res

    , @Triumph104
    @International Jew

    The Asian population in Utah is only 2.5%. I doubt they have the test prep infrastructure that is prevalent in Asian heavy areas of the country. Still, the Asians are punching above their weight, especially at Skyline and West High Schools.

    White Mormons in Utah are almost exclusively of Northern European ancestry - English, Irish, Scottish, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, and German. In addition, Mormons have the study habits of Orthodox Jews. Mormon teens must attend seminary from the ages of 14-18 in addition to regular high school classes. In Utah a seminary building is located adjacent to public high schools (Mormons don't have parochial schools like other religions) and students attend a session sometime during the day depending on their schedule. Teens in areas with low Mormon populations meet in homes or at church before school.

    Here is the NBA's Jabari Parker attending seminary as a Chicago high school student. The simple lesson is probably for the TV cameras.

    https://youtu.be/SmvnHwPVHiQ?t=70

    Replies: @Jack D

  44. Goldman Sachs has an expanding presence in Salt Lake City. They went from employing 300 to now over 2000, most of the increase in the last 10 years.

    Returning LDS missionaries with their foreign language skills are valuable in the global economy.

    It will be interesting to see how Utah evolves over the coming decades.

  45. When the poor people are, by and large, the same race as the richer ones, people find it easier to talk about them the way they might talk about, well, family members ….

    Again with the perennially inescapabale notion that “a race is an extremely extended family” yet no citation to Steve’s nearly twenty-year-old essay.

    A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home. — Matt. 13:57

    A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house. —Mark 6:4

  46. Ed says:
    @anony-mouse
    Utah is only 13th on the list of White percentage.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans

    WV is third and has been perpetually poor.

    ME is second and has never been well off.

    It's Mormonism.

    Replies: @Ed, @Mr. Anon, @Seamus Padraig, @syonredux

    Good point & WV has the highest black % of the 3 states at a robust, 3.4%. So blacks aren’t a factor. Maybe the American Nations theory is also a driver of this theory? Maine has a large French Canadian group that has historically struggled. WV is dominated by the quarrelsome Scot-Irish.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Ed

    As whites become an every smaller % of the population they tend to get lumped together as a single category , "white". In fact whites themselves are not all alike and this was well understood back in the day - a Boston brahmin and a toothless hillbilly were both "white" but they were not the same kind of white people. And that's even before you get to white ethnics. We have spoken before about Digby Baltzell's little sleight of hand where he turned "wealthy Anglo-Saxon Protestant" which almost makes sense, into "white Anglo-Saxon Protestant" which is redundant since all Anglo-Saxons are white to begin with.

    Once you understand this, then all the protests about why our elites won't watch out for their "fellow" white people make no sense. The elites NEVER regarded poor whites as their "fellows" - long before capitalists played race warfare they played class warfare. This is seen even more clearly in the UK where everyone was of the same race but class divisions were even bigger than in the US.

    Replies: @Seamus Padraig, @David Allan coe

    , @midtown
    @Ed

    I think you're right. I can't see the Scots-Irish being so collectivist as the Mormons. They value independence far too highly for that, even if it leads to less wealth.

    , @Triumph104
    @Ed

    I look at infant mortality data by state and race to find the states with dysfunctional whites. Contrary to popular opinion, a disparity in morbidity and mortality rates is not due to a lack of access to medical services but is instead caused by behavior.

    For whites in 2011-2013, the US average infant mortality rate was 5.1. For individual states, the range was 3.2 to 7.0.

    White Infant Mortality Rate --- US Average 5.1
    New Jersey 3.2
    Massachusetts 3.5
    Georgia 5.1
    Louisiana 6.2 (French Canadians)
    Maine 6.8
    West Virginia 7.0

    http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/infant-mortality-rate-by-race-ethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

    Replies: @anony-mouse

    , @David Davenport
    @Ed

    Good point & WV has the highest black % of the 3 states at a robust, 3.4%. So blacks aren’t a factor.


    That's is egregiously incorrect. That 3.4% is closer to the percentage of West Virginians who are black. West Virginia's problem is that coal mining remains the biggest industry there. The white genealogy of West Va. is more similar to that western PA than to former Confederate states -- more West Virginians with Slavic roots. Think Sen. Joe Manchin.

    North Carolina, on the other hand, is 20-25% black.

    Charlotte has a sizeable number of Jewish residents. Utah does not.

    The collapse of Wachovia Bank in Charlotte, N.C. is a large part of Charlotte's post 2008 economic troubles. Charlotte and other parts of N.C. had a big real estate boom in the 2000's. Utah, not as much. I suppose that houses then and now were affordable in Salt Lake City.

    Regarding "quarrelsome" Scot-Irish denizens of N.C.: North Carolina used to be as red or redder than its neighbor state Tennessee, using current political labels. No more. N.C. is now a "purple" toss-up state. Why? Too many more or less white peepul from the Northeast have emigrated to North Carolina. They haven't improved the place. ... Very unfortunate for N.C.

    Replies: @Sideways

  47. Mormons have tried so hard to become normal that they are now weird outliers, as the rest of the country accelerates into postindustrial dystopia.

    Good to see Putnam’s work getting cited in the mainstream. The tide is turning.

  48. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    At least the Mormons are smart enough not to dump their sons into the Israel/Pentagon woodchipper!

    Btw Trump is now sending new/more ground troops to Somalia, Yemen, Syria, Iraq after running his campaign on the understanding that Middle East wars were not the answer!

    It’s PNAC. Project for the New American Century. Wrecking all of Israel’s enemies because Israel was losing the peace.

  49. @Karl
    if you were BORN AND RAISED on the Upper West Side, you're not from any seriously real money.

    Having a view of the railroad-car stockyards is rather different than having a view of the Central Park Zoo.

    But I guess it's better than growing up in the Bronx. you have a view of the Fulton Fish Market.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @benjaminl, @anonymous, @George, @Jimi, @Yak-15, @SFG, @Achmed E. Newman, @Forbes

    “Having a view of the railroad-car stockyards is rather different than having a view of the Central Park Zoo.”

    First let me point out the trains in NYC are now zero emission electric and almost noiseless. Double pane windows and AC have done wonders for livability in New York City. Since the mid 90s no area of NYC has been really bad. Compare with NYC suburbs like Brentwood the MS-13 murder capital of the US. That may change if there is another financial crisis but it seems NY state pensions are actually comparatively well funded in comparison to everywhere else. See pensionTsunami.com for info on where you live. You may be surprised at how underfunded your local police pension scheme is.

    There is a snobby NYC joke: Sure the view from my bedroom window is a brick wall. But on the other side of that brick wall is New York City. Queue Frankie singing NY NY.

  50. “Chetty hasn’t yet figured out how to adjust for cyclical ups and downs of different regions”

    If I understand things correctly Chetty compared the composition of the bottom 20% to the top 20% over time. Economic cycles are not the point. Something is keeping the children of the top 20% in the top 20% and the bottom 20% in the bottom 20%. That there were economic dislocations is the point. Those economic dislocations should have changed the distribution, but did not. Kind of like people are inheriting their social position from their parents. Almost like the children of West Point graduates go to West Point and mostly inherit their parents military rank.

    Bill Gates was the child of wealthy people. Steve Jobs is the only ‘Horatio Alger’ type story, any others? This may be recent. I vaguely remember ordinary sorts of US military types becoming important tech entrepreneurs. Ross Perot was known to hire them. Silicon Graphics was founded by someone who was ‘discovered’ by the Navy after passing a psychometric test.

    It could be genetics. It could also be parents passing their position to their children. For example the children of police becoming police. Children of dentists becoming dentists. BTW, why does it take more time and money to become a lawyer in the US than anywhere else?

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @George

    This is the point of The Bell Curve.

    In an earlier time period, before widespread psychometric testing, there were lots of smart folks scattered around the country who were never "discovered" by anyone. Nowadays, much of the better genetic stock has been concentrated in certain "smart enclaves," leaving the dummies to roam the heartland. (Yes, there are undiscovered geniuses in the flyover states, but not nearly as many as there used to be.)

    James H. Clark was born in Plainview, Texas, and if he'd been born in 1904 rather than 1944, he likely would have died there.

  51. @International Jew
    List of Utah national merit semifinalists:
    https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/8xvzhg9erk5ger9u/images/1-4e624308c7.jpg
    Remarkably few Chinese and Indians.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Triumph104

    It’s also a remarkably short list for an entire state with 3 million people.

    In my area there’s one high school that gets over 30 every year out of a feeder population of 40,000, so extrapolated to a whole state of equally smart people there would be over 2,000 semifinalists.

    Of course the semifinalists are around 80% Asian, with the rest white, 0% black and Hispanic:

    http://myemail.constantcontact.com/CHS-Leads-PA-in-National-Merit-Semifinalists–9-20-Finance-Committee-Meeting–Calendar-Reminder–Upcoming-Meeting-Dates.html?soid=1102666461552&aid=k6pAVhg_DM4

    They do have something called “National Hispanic Scholar” with a lower cutoff. I think there is one for blacks also. A girl from my daughter’s high school won that one (both of her parents are doctors) and she joked about it to the other girls “I’m pretty smart….for a black person.”

    The College Board used to release these lists for every state but now they have disappeared. They used to send around a press release and local papers would pick it up. Their website says “it’s up to each high school to release the names of their finalists”. I assume that the composition of the finalists is some kind of hate fact that must no longer be publicized.

    • Replies: @candid_observer
    @Jack D

    I suspect that if Utah has fewer National Merit Scholars than their population would predict, it would be because many Mormons don't take the appropriate tests -- perhaps taking the ACT instead?

    In principle, each state should produce the same proportion of National Merit Scholars, since the cutoff for becoming a semifinalist is adjusted to the state to produce the same percentage.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Triumph104

    , @res
    @Jack D

    I didn't know about the Hispanic program (thanks!): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Hispanic_Recognition_Program
    "PSAT score cut-offs vary each year by state, but typically range in the high 180s/low 190s."

    The Black program stopped (moved, I guess) in 2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Merit_Scholarship_Program#National_Achievement_Scholarship_Program


    With the conclusion of the 2015 program, the National Achievement Scholarship Program transitioned to the United Negro College Fund, which will use program funds to honor and award financial assistance to high-achieving, underrepresented college graduates through the newly-designed Achievement Capstone Program.
     
    The NASP cutoffs appear to be a closely guarded secret, but here are some discussions: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/1371874-what-is-the-minimum-psat-score-required-to-become-a-national-achievement-scholar.html
    http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/high-school-life/137428-national-achievement-cutoff.html
    I find it hard to believe the NASP cutoffs would be higher than for the NHRP.
    The UNCF CAP appears to make a relatively small number of awards (no idea about the cutoff): https://www.uncf.org/blog/entry/37-students-chosen-as-achievement-capstone-program-awardees

    Some discussion of NHRP vs. NMSF vs. NASP: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/1281794-nm-vs-national-hispanic.html

    For the rest of us, here are the cutoffs by state: https://prepexpert.com/national-merit-psat-cutoff-scores-class-2018/
    Utah is near the middle at 212 (PA is 217, odd that it's 5 points lower than MD next door, that probably helps CHS).
    Percentage by state (top 0.5%) approach described at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Merit_Scholarship_Program

    Semifinalists are designated on a state representational basis, contingent on the total number of entrants and in proportion to each state’s percentage of the nation’s high school graduating seniors.[6] Semifinalists are the highest-scoring program entrants in each state and represent the top 0.5% percent of the state’s senior students.
     

    I assume that the composition of the finalists is some kind of hate fact that must no longer be publicized.
     
    That would be my guess as well. It's amazing how many hate facts come up in any discussion about test scores by race. You'd almost think race was meaningful in this context or something.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Triumph104

  52. @Dahlia
    "Perhaps Evan McMullin foresees a future for himself as the Mormon who leads Mormons to their rightful place in the Coalition of the Fringes."

    Yes. Will Utah follow New England in their Protestant liberalism? They're so similar, as their politicians have made clear this election, but Mormons have that pagan sensibility with collectivist ethos as opposed to, say, New England Unitarianism. Very peculiar because they don't remind me of the High Germans who are very down-to-earth.

    Replies: @David

    This is one strange comment. Maybe it makes sense. Anyone?

  53. Has anybody ever done an IQ study of Mormons?

    I very much have the impression that they punch above their weight in a variety of areas of achievement, and God knows that they have pursued unusual marriage practices that might be significantly eugenic.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @candid_observer

    If anything, they punch below their weight for a mostly white state.

    They only practiced polygamy on a large scale basis for a few decades so I don't think there was enough time for it to be eugenic. Also it's not clear to me that polygamy is really eugenic for intelligence based on societies where it is widespread. Nerdy smart guys don't tend to end up with a lot of wives. One of the secrets of Ashkenazi Jewish eugenics is that it was one of the few cultures to make nerdiness sexy - the most prestigious spouse for a rich girl was someone who was a great (Torah) scholar. Likewise in China a Confucian scholar who could pass the civil service test was a desirable mate.

    The guys who end up with big harems in polygamous societies tend to be macho charismatic guys who are not dumb but are not that into scholarship either. If Trump had been a Mormon back in the day he was the kind of guy who would have had a lot of wives. Such guys also don't seem to be interested in selecting their wives based on intelligence either, so the whole scheme doesn't seem to be a plan for breeding really smart kids.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Johann Ricke, @AnotherDad

    , @Anon
    @candid_observer

    It would be interesting to know the primary lineages of Mormons. Most are likely descended from the New Englanders via Western New York who were resident in the burned-over district - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burned-over_district - at that time.

    This was likely a very high IQ group.

    , @syonredux
    @candid_observer


    and God knows that they have pursued unusual marriage practices that might be significantly eugenic.
     
    Polygamy is not eugenic
    , @anon
    @candid_observer


    Has anybody ever done an IQ study of Mormons?
     
    I wouldn't be surprised if Mormon average IQ isn't that high.

    The advantage of an adaptive cultural blueprint is it makes people behave smarter than they are because smarter people wrote the blueprint.
    , @black sea
    @candid_observer


    Has anybody ever done an IQ study of Mormons?
     
    From Gene Expression:

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/mormons-are-average/#.WOCeaWfynIV
     

    Replies: @res

  54. @Ed
    @anony-mouse

    Good point & WV has the highest black % of the 3 states at a robust, 3.4%. So blacks aren't a factor. Maybe the American Nations theory is also a driver of this theory? Maine has a large French Canadian group that has historically struggled. WV is dominated by the quarrelsome Scot-Irish.

    Replies: @Jack D, @midtown, @Triumph104, @David Davenport

    As whites become an every smaller % of the population they tend to get lumped together as a single category , “white”. In fact whites themselves are not all alike and this was well understood back in the day – a Boston brahmin and a toothless hillbilly were both “white” but they were not the same kind of white people. And that’s even before you get to white ethnics. We have spoken before about Digby Baltzell’s little sleight of hand where he turned “wealthy Anglo-Saxon Protestant” which almost makes sense, into “white Anglo-Saxon Protestant” which is redundant since all Anglo-Saxons are white to begin with.

    Once you understand this, then all the protests about why our elites won’t watch out for their “fellow” white people make no sense. The elites NEVER regarded poor whites as their “fellows” – long before capitalists played race warfare they played class warfare. This is seen even more clearly in the UK where everyone was of the same race but class divisions were even bigger than in the US.

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
    @Jack D


    ... “white Anglo-Saxon Protestant” which is redundant since all Anglo-Saxons are white to begin with.
     
    Good point. Maybe we should start calling them ASPs!
    , @David Allan coe
    @Jack D

    Agree, the white groups often oppose each other.

  55. @Jack D
    @International Jew

    It's also a remarkably short list for an entire state with 3 million people.

    In my area there's one high school that gets over 30 every year out of a feeder population of 40,000, so extrapolated to a whole state of equally smart people there would be over 2,000 semifinalists.

    Of course the semifinalists are around 80% Asian, with the rest white, 0% black and Hispanic:

    http://myemail.constantcontact.com/CHS-Leads-PA-in-National-Merit-Semifinalists--9-20-Finance-Committee-Meeting--Calendar-Reminder--Upcoming-Meeting-Dates.html?soid=1102666461552&aid=k6pAVhg_DM4

    They do have something called "National Hispanic Scholar" with a lower cutoff. I think there is one for blacks also. A girl from my daughter's high school won that one (both of her parents are doctors) and she joked about it to the other girls "I'm pretty smart....for a black person."

    The College Board used to release these lists for every state but now they have disappeared. They used to send around a press release and local papers would pick it up. Their website says "it's up to each high school to release the names of their finalists". I assume that the composition of the finalists is some kind of hate fact that must no longer be publicized.

    Replies: @candid_observer, @res

    I suspect that if Utah has fewer National Merit Scholars than their population would predict, it would be because many Mormons don’t take the appropriate tests — perhaps taking the ACT instead?

    In principle, each state should produce the same proportion of National Merit Scholars, since the cutoff for becoming a semifinalist is adjusted to the state to produce the same percentage.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @candid_observer

    Good point. Here are the state cutoffs:

    http://www.compassprep.com/national-merit-semifinalist-cutoffs/

    W. Virginia (in the eastern SAT belt, but still low) 209 - also Dakotas and Wyoming

    Utah 215

    Massachusetts, NJ 222

    So Utah is in the middle of the pack along with a lot of states all over the map.

    Replies: @for-the-record

    , @Triumph104
    @candid_observer

    Yes. The state of Utah pays for every public school 11th grader that takes the ACT.

    Replies: @res

  56. @Anon
    '3 Wives, 1 Husband' was shown on TV here in England a few days ago. Based in Utah. So proud of thhr Mormons - must be the only Germanic group left with a very high birth rate (one man had 17 kids), uncucked, civilized. Kudos Mormons. Wish I could go there ti escape the PC hole Londonistan.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @Wilkey, @stillCARealist, @Anonymous

    Do they ever have shows about polygamous Moslem families in Europe or elsewhere? My guess would be NO.

    There might even be such families in your own backyard.

  57. @candid_observer
    Has anybody ever done an IQ study of Mormons?

    I very much have the impression that they punch above their weight in a variety of areas of achievement, and God knows that they have pursued unusual marriage practices that might be significantly eugenic.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @syonredux, @anon, @black sea

    If anything, they punch below their weight for a mostly white state.

    They only practiced polygamy on a large scale basis for a few decades so I don’t think there was enough time for it to be eugenic. Also it’s not clear to me that polygamy is really eugenic for intelligence based on societies where it is widespread. Nerdy smart guys don’t tend to end up with a lot of wives. One of the secrets of Ashkenazi Jewish eugenics is that it was one of the few cultures to make nerdiness sexy – the most prestigious spouse for a rich girl was someone who was a great (Torah) scholar. Likewise in China a Confucian scholar who could pass the civil service test was a desirable mate.

    The guys who end up with big harems in polygamous societies tend to be macho charismatic guys who are not dumb but are not that into scholarship either. If Trump had been a Mormon back in the day he was the kind of guy who would have had a lot of wives. Such guys also don’t seem to be interested in selecting their wives based on intelligence either, so the whole scheme doesn’t seem to be a plan for breeding really smart kids.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Jack D

    I generally agree with your comment, but as the history of "legitimate" polygamy was explained to me by a Mormon, it was the church, not the husband, who chose the additional mates. It was supposed to be a duty undertaken by the most devout Mormon at the behest of the church, to provide a share of his husbanding to women who would otherwise go without. So, the traditional polygamous Mormon husband may not be a nerd, but he probably wasn't a macho/charismatic guy either, rather whatever it was that appealed to the church elders in the 19th century: perhaps Amish-like devotion and get-along-ness.

    Anyhow, as you say, compared to Ashkenazi eugenics, the Mormon program hasn't run very long.

    Replies: @David

    , @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    Also it’s not clear to me that polygamy is really eugenic for intelligence based on societies where it is widespread. Likewise in China a Confucian scholar who could pass the civil service test was a desirable mate.
     
    Most of the world outside of Europe has been polygamous at least since anyone started keeping records. A variant of polygamy, concubinage, involving official, though inferior, status for partners other than the first wife, stable relationships and children with inheritance rights, was legal in much of the Far East up until the mid-20th century. Robert van Gulik, the Dutch author and China scholar, covered this aspect of Chinese social life peripherally in his Judge Dee detective novels. Polygamy was probably eugenic in the sense of passing on the genes of whatever aspect made a man a superior marriage prospect in a given society. In Confucian societies, this presumably meant, in addition to the kin and retainers personally loyal to the ruler, the genes of wealthy merchants, as well as scholars and high-ranking soldiers, whose positions gave them the power to amass the wealth necessary to main multiple concubines.
    , @AnotherDad
    @Jack D

    Jack, your points on Jewish and Chinese eugenics seem spot on.

    But I don't think you're on target with the Mormons. The polygamy thing was a passing fancy and probably had very little genetic impact.

    The Mormon selection would have been for smart, conscientious hard workers who could cooperate in the system. It's pretty much the sort selection that's been going on in white gentiles for a few thousand years--outlined by Greg Clark in Farewell to Alms--and accounts for why white gentiles have produced the best nations in the world.

    They have their own community, and hence aren't pushing their kids into the coastal elites, so you probably haven't encountered many and think they aren't punching their weight. But where they are, they are usually plenty who are on the ball, movers and shakers. They aren't going to be like Jews or Chinese, but they are very solid typical white gentiles. They aren't punching below their weight.

    The Mormons are also likely in much better eugenic shape going forward than most white people. For example, while Jews while selected for smarts--especially verbally skilled--this has also tossed off a lot of Jewish gals who are smart--IQ wise at least--but talky, bitchy. Some of the whiners in chief of the last 50. These are gals who think they are heroes of Soviet motherhood--Jewish division--if they have a 2nd kid. (Maybe if they have any kid!) In contrast the Mormon girls, if they stick with the program, know they will have at least three if physically capable. So smart Mormon girls aren't marrying smart Mormon men and then destroying their genes.

    The open questions about their eugenics:
    --> More gals than guys stick with the program. Should mean that high quality guys tend to find terrific wives who are attractive and smart and great moms who'll willingly produce babies and keep smart genes propagating. But it could mean it's too easy for dullard guys to reproduce who are supposed to be selected out in the natural order.
    --> Are they boiling off too many of the smartest folks. Obviously the boiling off will tend to whack the loose canons and uncooperative. But it might also now be boiling off too many smart guys who just think the program is too stupid and constraining. Mormons might find themselves getting Amishized.

    Of course the *big* problem for the Mormons is the same one for all white gentile groups--insufficient racial consciousness. The Mormons are out "saving" everyone all over the planet, and the Church is just fine with these Mexicans streaming into Utah ... they are smothered with Mormon love and ergo will inevitably become part of the Mormon gene pool.

    Mormons would be much better off with less soul saving and more explicit ethnic group identity--a particular people with a particular story, more like the Jews. Of course, they used to have a more explicit racial identity. But the Jews running our culture decided that was illegitimate, and the Mormons buckled years ago. Only Jews are allowed to have an explicit racial identity. Anyone else wanting to maintain their group's racial identity is a racist!

    Replies: @CommanderFun

  58. I will summarize: So much of what states like NY and California provide to their welfare class is provided in Utah by the Mormon Church. That’s good. The Mormons are noted missionaries but I don’t see them bringing back thousands of , let’s say Somalis, to share their largess. That’s bad. Therefore: Mormons are compassionate racists.

    • Replies: @Kyle a
    @Buffalo Joe

    Not many Somalians for sure, but plenty of Samoans and Asian types from the real downtrodden areas. They've brought plenty of them back hardly any of which actuall stay in Utah.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  59. @candid_observer
    @Jack D

    I suspect that if Utah has fewer National Merit Scholars than their population would predict, it would be because many Mormons don't take the appropriate tests -- perhaps taking the ACT instead?

    In principle, each state should produce the same proportion of National Merit Scholars, since the cutoff for becoming a semifinalist is adjusted to the state to produce the same percentage.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Triumph104

    Good point. Here are the state cutoffs:

    http://www.compassprep.com/national-merit-semifinalist-cutoffs/

    W. Virginia (in the eastern SAT belt, but still low) 209 – also Dakotas and Wyoming

    Utah 215

    Massachusetts, NJ 222

    So Utah is in the middle of the pack along with a lot of states all over the map.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
    @Jack D

    Interestingly, DC is tied with Massachusetts and New Jersey for highest cut-off, which is perhaps not what one might have predicted. According to Wikipedia, in 2014 the student population was 67% black, 17% hispanic, 12% non-hispanic white and 4% "other".

    Replies: @International Jew

  60. There’s some selection pressure here. People who don’t like the church’s attitude towards sobriety, chastity, and clean living often leave, and are replaced by converts who see something they like in the faith. I wish an atheist jihadi like Sam Harris would read this.

  61. I still say the solution is massive increases in public housing in wealthy blue enclaves. Let’s get 10,000 residents in public housing in Boulder by the end of 2017. We got this! We can put a man on the moon, can’t we? I know people in Boulder want to do more. That place is stale, and pale! How can such a progressive enlightened superior utopia be so monocultural? I think a goal of getting YT down to 25% is totally do-able. We can at least try!

    I have lefty relatives in coastal OC who told me “we need to do more” for minorities. Can we get 20,000 public housing units in Newport Beach by the end of the year? C’mon! What are we waiting for? More diversity, think of the jobs this would create, and the Newport Beachians could pitch in together in a big new social diversity project to help their new neighbors. Kumbaya!! I am trying to think of a downside here, this just screams “Win win.”

    These places are so white bread and non diverse, how can they live with themselves. Same for Evanston. I’ve run my list of YT utopias here before.

    • Replies: @Yak-15
    @Buck Turgidson

    I agree. Let's carpet bomb the blue enclaves with anyone who is a member of a third generation welfare family. Finally these poor wretches will get the help they need!!

    , @Sideways
    @Buck Turgidson

    Evanston non-diverse? It's barely half white, and contains a substantial amount of blacks, hispanics, and asians.

  62. OT, but I remember we had a nice conversation concerning the Oroville Dam spillway failure and the Sacramento Bee today has an article saying that the state is sealing records concerning damage reviews for security reasons. Last week four engineering firms, hired separately to review the damage spillway, presented reports assessing the massive damage to the spillway. In their reports they stated that they were concerned about water freely flowing from UNDER the spillway, even though the gates were closed. Hmmmm, interesting.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Buffalo Joe

    If you combine incompetent government (made even more incompetent by all sorts of racial and gender imperatives) with corrupt business you can get a nasty combination.

    There is a huge problem now in Atlanta with their main Interstate highway cut due to a fire that collapsed a large section of elevated roadway. The state highway dept. had stored a large quantity of some plastic material under the highway reasoning that it was not likely to catch fire by itself any more than your plastic patio furniture will spontaneously self-combust. This was true but they did not consider the fact that someone might want to set fire to this stuff for some reason. The stuff is not easy to light up but once it gets going it is basically petroleum and burns like hell.

    The storage area had a chain link fence with a gate so that no one would drive off with the stuff but it was not intended to keep people out - it was easy to slip inside. They have now arrested 3 homeless people including one crack addict with a rap sheet a mile long who seems to be the main suspect. It's not clear whether he was just starting a campfire to keep warm or whether he intended to start a blaze.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/local/warrant-bridge-fire-suspect-smoked-crack-before-starting-blaze/dhJ61rKsrLtTKQnmf3JmYM/

    File under : why we can't have nice things.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Buffalo Joe

  63. @anony-mouse
    Utah is only 13th on the list of White percentage.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans

    WV is third and has been perpetually poor.

    ME is second and has never been well off.

    It's Mormonism.

    Replies: @Ed, @Mr. Anon, @Seamus Padraig, @syonredux

    “ME is second and has never been well off.”

    Maine isn’t exactly yankeestan – i.e. a hell-hole – either.

  64. So Ms. McArdle has found the key to economic prosperity: have a mostly white polity that is held together with religion and a common ethnic and/or civic heritage. Sort of like most of America, prior to 1980 or so.

    Good to know. Next time we get a country, maybe we won’t take a sledge hammer to all that.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
  65. @Karl
    if you were BORN AND RAISED on the Upper West Side, you're not from any seriously real money.

    Having a view of the railroad-car stockyards is rather different than having a view of the Central Park Zoo.

    But I guess it's better than growing up in the Bronx. you have a view of the Fulton Fish Market.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @benjaminl, @anonymous, @George, @Jimi, @Yak-15, @SFG, @Achmed E. Newman, @Forbes

    I don’t think Megan McArdle claims to have “serious money.” But growing up on the UWS in a doorman building in that era meant you were slightly less affluent and quite more Bohemian than than the UES folks.

  66. @candid_observer
    Has anybody ever done an IQ study of Mormons?

    I very much have the impression that they punch above their weight in a variety of areas of achievement, and God knows that they have pursued unusual marriage practices that might be significantly eugenic.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @syonredux, @anon, @black sea

    It would be interesting to know the primary lineages of Mormons. Most are likely descended from the New Englanders via Western New York who were resident in the burned-over district – https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burned-over_district – at that time.

    This was likely a very high IQ group.

  67. @Buffalo Joe
    OT, but I remember we had a nice conversation concerning the Oroville Dam spillway failure and the Sacramento Bee today has an article saying that the state is sealing records concerning damage reviews for security reasons. Last week four engineering firms, hired separately to review the damage spillway, presented reports assessing the massive damage to the spillway. In their reports they stated that they were concerned about water freely flowing from UNDER the spillway, even though the gates were closed. Hmmmm, interesting.

    Replies: @Jack D

    If you combine incompetent government (made even more incompetent by all sorts of racial and gender imperatives) with corrupt business you can get a nasty combination.

    There is a huge problem now in Atlanta with their main Interstate highway cut due to a fire that collapsed a large section of elevated roadway. The state highway dept. had stored a large quantity of some plastic material under the highway reasoning that it was not likely to catch fire by itself any more than your plastic patio furniture will spontaneously self-combust. This was true but they did not consider the fact that someone might want to set fire to this stuff for some reason. The stuff is not easy to light up but once it gets going it is basically petroleum and burns like hell.

    The storage area had a chain link fence with a gate so that no one would drive off with the stuff but it was not intended to keep people out – it was easy to slip inside. They have now arrested 3 homeless people including one crack addict with a rap sheet a mile long who seems to be the main suspect. It’s not clear whether he was just starting a campfire to keep warm or whether he intended to start a blaze.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/local/warrant-bridge-fire-suspect-smoked-crack-before-starting-blaze/dhJ61rKsrLtTKQnmf3JmYM/

    File under : why we can’t have nice things.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D

    Ah, c'mon now! We all know that the CIA, or the Mossad, or the Shriners or somebody, started the blaze and "pulled" that freeway overpass just to support their "official story" about the 9/11 inside-job. It's obvious! Because fires never result in the collapse of structures. Stop being one of the sheeple, Jack!

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Jack D

    Jack, and for those who doubted that a fire could compromise steel and concrete, as in the collapse of the Twin Towers, please note that a fire brought down this bridge section.

    Replies: @Jack D

  68. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Anon

    Polygamous societies are social disasters.

    Replies: @Seamus Padraig

    The Mormons banned polygamy more than a century ago. Only the tiny outlaw sects still practice it.

    • Replies: @Sideways
    @Seamus Padraig

    He was responding directly to someone claiming that Mormon polygamy was a good thing

  69. @anony-mouse
    Utah is only 13th on the list of White percentage.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans

    WV is third and has been perpetually poor.

    ME is second and has never been well off.

    It's Mormonism.

    Replies: @Ed, @Mr. Anon, @Seamus Padraig, @syonredux

    Mormonism is now the fastest-growing in Brazil, which is not a terribly white country. A generation or two from now, it’ll be interesting to see what becomes of the Brazilian Mormons. This could once and for all settle the question of whether Mormonism’s success is inherently racial or inherently cultural.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Seamus Padraig


    Mormonism is now the fastest-growing in Brazil, which is not a terribly white country. A generation or two from now, it’ll be interesting to see what becomes of the Brazilian Mormons. This could once and for all settle the question of whether Mormonism’s success is inherently racial or inherently cultural.
     
    Have to control for things like self-selection, though. What kinds of Brazilians are attracted to Mormonism?
  70. @Jack D
    @Ed

    As whites become an every smaller % of the population they tend to get lumped together as a single category , "white". In fact whites themselves are not all alike and this was well understood back in the day - a Boston brahmin and a toothless hillbilly were both "white" but they were not the same kind of white people. And that's even before you get to white ethnics. We have spoken before about Digby Baltzell's little sleight of hand where he turned "wealthy Anglo-Saxon Protestant" which almost makes sense, into "white Anglo-Saxon Protestant" which is redundant since all Anglo-Saxons are white to begin with.

    Once you understand this, then all the protests about why our elites won't watch out for their "fellow" white people make no sense. The elites NEVER regarded poor whites as their "fellows" - long before capitalists played race warfare they played class warfare. This is seen even more clearly in the UK where everyone was of the same race but class divisions were even bigger than in the US.

    Replies: @Seamus Padraig, @David Allan coe

    … “white Anglo-Saxon Protestant” which is redundant since all Anglo-Saxons are white to begin with.

    Good point. Maybe we should start calling them ASPs!

  71. instead they try very hard to be seen as part of Core America due to their aggressive attempts to be normal Americans.

    Left unsaid here is the plain fact that Mormons can and do get accepted as mainstream Americans because they are white. And, to be honest, other non-European people who look white also get accepted as long as they want to be. (I read some articles last year about West Virginian supporters of Trump who were descendants of Arab Muslims from the Levant around the time of World War I.) For people who have no hope of passing for white, they have to be on tenterhooks every time tragedy strikes and America gets fearful. An Indian guy hangs out at a bar (like a typical American would) and gets shot to death because someone thinks he is an illegal Iranian Muslim. Is that his fault? Didn’t he try to assimilate hard enough?

    • Replies: @anon
    @Numinous

    Honestly, I don't understand why he decided to hang out in a bar in a lowbrow area where patrons pack heat. If he had any sense, he would be aware such mistaken vigilante attacks have happened to other non-white looking people. The guy seemed like a pretty smart engineer at a aerospace company; how hard to figure out alcohol + firearms + politics is bad cocktail?

    , @Autochthon
    @Numinous

    It's absolutely his fault in so far as he ought not to have invaded the U.S.A. in the first place; as he did, at the very least he assumed the risk. Americans minding their own business are similarly raped. robbed, kidnapped, and murdered in places like India all the time.

    This is all what separate countries are for.

    Replies: @Numinous

  72. @Jack D
    @Buffalo Joe

    If you combine incompetent government (made even more incompetent by all sorts of racial and gender imperatives) with corrupt business you can get a nasty combination.

    There is a huge problem now in Atlanta with their main Interstate highway cut due to a fire that collapsed a large section of elevated roadway. The state highway dept. had stored a large quantity of some plastic material under the highway reasoning that it was not likely to catch fire by itself any more than your plastic patio furniture will spontaneously self-combust. This was true but they did not consider the fact that someone might want to set fire to this stuff for some reason. The stuff is not easy to light up but once it gets going it is basically petroleum and burns like hell.

    The storage area had a chain link fence with a gate so that no one would drive off with the stuff but it was not intended to keep people out - it was easy to slip inside. They have now arrested 3 homeless people including one crack addict with a rap sheet a mile long who seems to be the main suspect. It's not clear whether he was just starting a campfire to keep warm or whether he intended to start a blaze.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/local/warrant-bridge-fire-suspect-smoked-crack-before-starting-blaze/dhJ61rKsrLtTKQnmf3JmYM/

    File under : why we can't have nice things.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Buffalo Joe

    Ah, c’mon now! We all know that the CIA, or the Mossad, or the Shriners or somebody, started the blaze and “pulled” that freeway overpass just to support their “official story” about the 9/11 inside-job. It’s obvious! Because fires never result in the collapse of structures. Stop being one of the sheeple, Jack!

  73. When most people are working, the community can help encourage those who are having trouble…

    As another chick named McArdle sang,

    The sun will come out tomorrow
    So you got to hang on ’til tomorrow, come what may!
    Tomorrow, tomorrow, I love you tomorrow
    You’re always a day away

  74. @Ed
    @anony-mouse

    Good point & WV has the highest black % of the 3 states at a robust, 3.4%. So blacks aren't a factor. Maybe the American Nations theory is also a driver of this theory? Maine has a large French Canadian group that has historically struggled. WV is dominated by the quarrelsome Scot-Irish.

    Replies: @Jack D, @midtown, @Triumph104, @David Davenport

    I think you’re right. I can’t see the Scots-Irish being so collectivist as the Mormons. They value independence far too highly for that, even if it leads to less wealth.

    • Agree: Autochthon
  75. res says:
    @Jack D
    @International Jew

    It's also a remarkably short list for an entire state with 3 million people.

    In my area there's one high school that gets over 30 every year out of a feeder population of 40,000, so extrapolated to a whole state of equally smart people there would be over 2,000 semifinalists.

    Of course the semifinalists are around 80% Asian, with the rest white, 0% black and Hispanic:

    http://myemail.constantcontact.com/CHS-Leads-PA-in-National-Merit-Semifinalists--9-20-Finance-Committee-Meeting--Calendar-Reminder--Upcoming-Meeting-Dates.html?soid=1102666461552&aid=k6pAVhg_DM4

    They do have something called "National Hispanic Scholar" with a lower cutoff. I think there is one for blacks also. A girl from my daughter's high school won that one (both of her parents are doctors) and she joked about it to the other girls "I'm pretty smart....for a black person."

    The College Board used to release these lists for every state but now they have disappeared. They used to send around a press release and local papers would pick it up. Their website says "it's up to each high school to release the names of their finalists". I assume that the composition of the finalists is some kind of hate fact that must no longer be publicized.

    Replies: @candid_observer, @res

    I didn’t know about the Hispanic program (thanks!): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Hispanic_Recognition_Program
    “PSAT score cut-offs vary each year by state, but typically range in the high 180s/low 190s.”

    The Black program stopped (moved, I guess) in 2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Merit_Scholarship_Program#National_Achievement_Scholarship_Program

    With the conclusion of the 2015 program, the National Achievement Scholarship Program transitioned to the United Negro College Fund, which will use program funds to honor and award financial assistance to high-achieving, underrepresented college graduates through the newly-designed Achievement Capstone Program.

    The NASP cutoffs appear to be a closely guarded secret, but here are some discussions: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/1371874-what-is-the-minimum-psat-score-required-to-become-a-national-achievement-scholar.html
    http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/high-school-life/137428-national-achievement-cutoff.html
    I find it hard to believe the NASP cutoffs would be higher than for the NHRP.
    The UNCF CAP appears to make a relatively small number of awards (no idea about the cutoff): https://www.uncf.org/blog/entry/37-students-chosen-as-achievement-capstone-program-awardees

    Some discussion of NHRP vs. NMSF vs. NASP: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/1281794-nm-vs-national-hispanic.html

    For the rest of us, here are the cutoffs by state: https://prepexpert.com/national-merit-psat-cutoff-scores-class-2018/
    Utah is near the middle at 212 (PA is 217, odd that it’s 5 points lower than MD next door, that probably helps CHS).
    Percentage by state (top 0.5%) approach described at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Merit_Scholarship_Program

    Semifinalists are designated on a state representational basis, contingent on the total number of entrants and in proportion to each state’s percentage of the nation’s high school graduating seniors.[6] Semifinalists are the highest-scoring program entrants in each state and represent the top 0.5% percent of the state’s senior students.

    I assume that the composition of the finalists is some kind of hate fact that must no longer be publicized.

    That would be my guess as well. It’s amazing how many hate facts come up in any discussion about test scores by race. You’d almost think race was meaningful in this context or something.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @res

    Maybe in the future they will have a National White Scholars program with lower cutoff so that they don't have to compete with the Asians.

    The township where Conestoga HS is has a fair # of Asians but nothing like the 80% that is their % in the NMSF.

    Regarding PA vs MD, MD is raised up by the DC suburbs which have some of the highest % of college grads in the US.

    In PA you have the Philadelphia area (most of the scholars are in the suburbs- the city is a black hole) and the Pittsburgh area and everywhere else is West Virginia.

    Replies: @res

    , @Triumph104
    @res

    Did you notice the UNCF typos?


    This new award, a legacy of NMSC’s 50-year National Achievement® Scholarship Program, will rst recognize the outstanding academic accomplishments of its recipients at the cum laude level or above and it will provide them with nancial awards that support and encourage them in the careers on which they are about to embark. 
     
    The new award is only given to graduates of HBCUs and predominately black institutions. I suppose because most National Achievement recipients were attending predominately white colleges, but more importantly, this new award can be used to pay off student loans -- of public colleges, graduates of HBCUS have the highest median debt.

    Replies: @res

  76. @International Jew
    List of Utah national merit semifinalists:
    https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/8xvzhg9erk5ger9u/images/1-4e624308c7.jpg
    Remarkably few Chinese and Indians.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Triumph104

    The Asian population in Utah is only 2.5%. I doubt they have the test prep infrastructure that is prevalent in Asian heavy areas of the country. Still, the Asians are punching above their weight, especially at Skyline and West High Schools.

    White Mormons in Utah are almost exclusively of Northern European ancestry – English, Irish, Scottish, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, and German. In addition, Mormons have the study habits of Orthodox Jews. Mormon teens must attend seminary from the ages of 14-18 in addition to regular high school classes. In Utah a seminary building is located adjacent to public high schools (Mormons don’t have parochial schools like other religions) and students attend a session sometime during the day depending on their schedule. Teens in areas with low Mormon populations meet in homes or at church before school.

    Here is the NBA’s Jabari Parker attending seminary as a Chicago high school student. The simple lesson is probably for the TV cameras.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Triumph104

    Maybe the simple lesson is for Jabari's benefit.

  77. @Shouting Thomas
    Will any politician ever dare to suggest that that chip on the shoulder attitude of blacks is a large part of what's holding them back?

    Replies: @MW, @MBlanc46, @Father O'Hara

    Not one who expects to be heard, to say nothing of getting elected.

  78. @Discordiax
    "China has an irrational well founded fear of black immigrants bringing drugs, crime and interracial marriage marriage competition for Chinese women.
    https://qz.com/945053/china-has-an-irrational-fear-of-a-black-invasion-bringing-drugs-crime-and-interracial-marriage/

    The comments from the professors at western universities are the best. Almost every one is a direct inversion of empirical reality. "Black people are falsely stereotyped as [doing things black people do a lot of]", from rape (Elbridge Cleaver) to getting girls pregnant and abandoning them (Barack Obama Sr), to using drugs and being out late at night in groups, going to nightclubs, having higher rates of AIDS and Ebola. C'mon, everybody knows black people never do those things.


    “Their perception was that I was somehow better than a black person from Africa because of my Americanness. Part of this is rooted in… mistaken beliefs of American wealth and power versus stereotypes of African poverty and suffering.”
     
    "Mistaken" must be how the hip kids say "entirely and completely accurate" these days.

    Replies: @WowJustWow, @a reader

    If their population [keeps growing], China will change from a nation-state to an immigration country, from a yellow country to a black-and-yellow country.

    Is it okay to use the Y-word these days, or is it only okay for Asians? Or only Asian-Asians, not Asian-Americans?

  79. @Jack D
    @Buffalo Joe

    If you combine incompetent government (made even more incompetent by all sorts of racial and gender imperatives) with corrupt business you can get a nasty combination.

    There is a huge problem now in Atlanta with their main Interstate highway cut due to a fire that collapsed a large section of elevated roadway. The state highway dept. had stored a large quantity of some plastic material under the highway reasoning that it was not likely to catch fire by itself any more than your plastic patio furniture will spontaneously self-combust. This was true but they did not consider the fact that someone might want to set fire to this stuff for some reason. The stuff is not easy to light up but once it gets going it is basically petroleum and burns like hell.

    The storage area had a chain link fence with a gate so that no one would drive off with the stuff but it was not intended to keep people out - it was easy to slip inside. They have now arrested 3 homeless people including one crack addict with a rap sheet a mile long who seems to be the main suspect. It's not clear whether he was just starting a campfire to keep warm or whether he intended to start a blaze.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/local/warrant-bridge-fire-suspect-smoked-crack-before-starting-blaze/dhJ61rKsrLtTKQnmf3JmYM/

    File under : why we can't have nice things.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Buffalo Joe

    Jack, and for those who doubted that a fire could compromise steel and concrete, as in the collapse of the Twin Towers, please note that a fire brought down this bridge section.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Buffalo Joe

    I never doubted this. As I'm sure you know, structural steel (in buildings, not highways) is supposed to be sprayed with a fireproof coating for just this reason. In the WTC the original coating was asbestos but when asbestos became a dirty word they removed that coating and resprayed it with less toxic materials. There is some question as to how good a job they did.

    The WTC was also very lightly built for a skyscraper. Their goal was to have big floors with column free space so the building was built with a structural inner core and an outer structural tube and in between they used very light zig-zag trusses like what you would see in the roof of a warehouse or retail store that has no drop ceiling.

    There was a 1920's skyscraper near the WTC that caught fire but did not collapse. Before they had computers they would engineer structures with large safety factors because they did not know exactly where the edge was and didn't want to skate anywhere near it. Also that building was so old that it didn't even have spray on fireproofing. As fireproofing, every column had been encased in terra cotta tiles on all sides and these stood the heat very well. (The amount of hand labor that went into these old structures was enormous - before they could cast I-beams as 1 piece they would build them up from boiler plate and angle iron with hundreds and hundreds of rivets, each one hand hammered).

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Achmed E. Newman

  80. @Jack D
    @Ed

    As whites become an every smaller % of the population they tend to get lumped together as a single category , "white". In fact whites themselves are not all alike and this was well understood back in the day - a Boston brahmin and a toothless hillbilly were both "white" but they were not the same kind of white people. And that's even before you get to white ethnics. We have spoken before about Digby Baltzell's little sleight of hand where he turned "wealthy Anglo-Saxon Protestant" which almost makes sense, into "white Anglo-Saxon Protestant" which is redundant since all Anglo-Saxons are white to begin with.

    Once you understand this, then all the protests about why our elites won't watch out for their "fellow" white people make no sense. The elites NEVER regarded poor whites as their "fellows" - long before capitalists played race warfare they played class warfare. This is seen even more clearly in the UK where everyone was of the same race but class divisions were even bigger than in the US.

    Replies: @Seamus Padraig, @David Allan coe

    Agree, the white groups often oppose each other.

  81. OT:

    “Police arrests are plummeting across California, fueling alarm and questions”

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-police-slowdown-20170401-story.html

    In 2013, something changed on the streets of Los Angeles.

    Police officers began making fewer arrests. The following year, the Los Angeles Police Department’s arrest numbers dipped even lower and continued to fall, dropping by 25% from 2013 to 2015.

    The Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department and the San Diego Police Department also saw significant drops in arrests during that period.

    The statewide numbers are just as striking: Police recorded the lowest number of arrests in nearly 50 years, according to the California attorney general’s office, with about 1.1 million arrests in 2015 compared with 1.5 million in 2006.

    It is unclear why officers are making fewer arrests.

    2013 is when #BLM kicked off after the Trayvon Martin self-defense shooting.

    In Los Angeles, the drop in arrests comes amid a persistent increase in crime, which began in 2014. LAPD Chief Charlie Beck noted that arrests for the most serious crimes have risen along with the numbers of those offenses, while the decrease comes largely from narcotics arrests.

    The arrest data include both felonies and misdemeanors — crimes ranging from homicide to disorderly conduct. From 2010 to 2015, felony arrests made by Los Angeles police officers were down 29% and misdemeanor arrests were down 32%.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Boomstick

    the police should have done this themselves years ago

    it would have been bad for a few years but if the outcome shut the lying media up permanently then it would have been better in the long run

  82. @Karl
    if you were BORN AND RAISED on the Upper West Side, you're not from any seriously real money.

    Having a view of the railroad-car stockyards is rather different than having a view of the Central Park Zoo.

    But I guess it's better than growing up in the Bronx. you have a view of the Fulton Fish Market.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @benjaminl, @anonymous, @George, @Jimi, @Yak-15, @SFG, @Achmed E. Newman, @Forbes

    The Bronx has nice parts. Lots of natural features and topography. It’s the population in most areas of the Bronx that makes it slummy. Check it out some time. (Driving, during the day)

    • Replies: @Daniel H
    @Yak-15

    The Grand Concourse is quite impressive. Between 1968-1972 white flight turned it into a quasi ghetto.

    , @Karl
    @Yak-15

    83 Yak-15 > The Bronx has nice parts

    so does Karachi.

    I guess if you attended the Fieldston Ethical Culture School as a kid, you would say that the Bronx has nice parts. I mean, ok.... it's no Mogadishu.


    Although: checking just now, the website of the SUNY Maritime College lists their address as "Throggs Neck, NY"

    Not "Bronx NY"

    iSteve ought to be able to go to town with that one.....

  83. @res
    @Jack D

    I didn't know about the Hispanic program (thanks!): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Hispanic_Recognition_Program
    "PSAT score cut-offs vary each year by state, but typically range in the high 180s/low 190s."

    The Black program stopped (moved, I guess) in 2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Merit_Scholarship_Program#National_Achievement_Scholarship_Program


    With the conclusion of the 2015 program, the National Achievement Scholarship Program transitioned to the United Negro College Fund, which will use program funds to honor and award financial assistance to high-achieving, underrepresented college graduates through the newly-designed Achievement Capstone Program.
     
    The NASP cutoffs appear to be a closely guarded secret, but here are some discussions: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/1371874-what-is-the-minimum-psat-score-required-to-become-a-national-achievement-scholar.html
    http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/high-school-life/137428-national-achievement-cutoff.html
    I find it hard to believe the NASP cutoffs would be higher than for the NHRP.
    The UNCF CAP appears to make a relatively small number of awards (no idea about the cutoff): https://www.uncf.org/blog/entry/37-students-chosen-as-achievement-capstone-program-awardees

    Some discussion of NHRP vs. NMSF vs. NASP: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/1281794-nm-vs-national-hispanic.html

    For the rest of us, here are the cutoffs by state: https://prepexpert.com/national-merit-psat-cutoff-scores-class-2018/
    Utah is near the middle at 212 (PA is 217, odd that it's 5 points lower than MD next door, that probably helps CHS).
    Percentage by state (top 0.5%) approach described at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Merit_Scholarship_Program

    Semifinalists are designated on a state representational basis, contingent on the total number of entrants and in proportion to each state’s percentage of the nation’s high school graduating seniors.[6] Semifinalists are the highest-scoring program entrants in each state and represent the top 0.5% percent of the state’s senior students.
     

    I assume that the composition of the finalists is some kind of hate fact that must no longer be publicized.
     
    That would be my guess as well. It's amazing how many hate facts come up in any discussion about test scores by race. You'd almost think race was meaningful in this context or something.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Triumph104

    Maybe in the future they will have a National White Scholars program with lower cutoff so that they don’t have to compete with the Asians.

    The township where Conestoga HS is has a fair # of Asians but nothing like the 80% that is their % in the NMSF.

    Regarding PA vs MD, MD is raised up by the DC suburbs which have some of the highest % of college grads in the US.

    In PA you have the Philadelphia area (most of the scholars are in the suburbs- the city is a black hole) and the Pittsburgh area and everywhere else is West Virginia.

    • Replies: @res
    @Jack D


    Maybe in the future they will have a National White Scholars program with lower cutoff so that they don’t have to compete with the Asians.
     
    You jest (maybe, who knows if the Asian population in the US keeps increasing), but if the groups were reversed you know we would already have a separate program.

    Regarding PA vs MD, MD is raised up by the DC suburbs which have some of the highest % of college grads in the US.
     
    Agreed. I ran into a surprising number of students from the DC suburbs when I went to (a very selective) college.

    In PA you have the Philadelphia area (most of the scholars are in the suburbs- the city is a black hole) and the Pittsburgh area and everywhere else is West Virginia.
     
    That makes sense. I bet the contrast between the scholarly group and the rest shows up starkly in all sorts of measures.

    Replies: @Triumph104

  84. Part of the explanation is probably the Mormon Church’s century of institutional racism.

    I get the feeling that, in the current year, the places that are held to account for their past racism through bureaucratic interventions are the ones that were just racist enough to have a vivid history that could be dramatized on film, not the ones that were so racist that they managed to keep themselves ethnically homogeneous in the first place. Portlandians will occasionally share an article about their city’s secret shame and attach a frowny face emoji, but saying a few Hail Marys is a lot easier than tithing.

  85. Mormons take social stewardship very seriously.

    Not only are elders supposed to look out for community welfare, they are expected to serve as the priests of their own households and practice a form of ancestor veneration. So you have this kind of Confucian element to Mormonism that is lacking in other Christian sects. It’s actually pretty well thought out.

  86. @Buffalo Joe
    @Jack D

    Jack, and for those who doubted that a fire could compromise steel and concrete, as in the collapse of the Twin Towers, please note that a fire brought down this bridge section.

    Replies: @Jack D

    I never doubted this. As I’m sure you know, structural steel (in buildings, not highways) is supposed to be sprayed with a fireproof coating for just this reason. In the WTC the original coating was asbestos but when asbestos became a dirty word they removed that coating and resprayed it with less toxic materials. There is some question as to how good a job they did.

    The WTC was also very lightly built for a skyscraper. Their goal was to have big floors with column free space so the building was built with a structural inner core and an outer structural tube and in between they used very light zig-zag trusses like what you would see in the roof of a warehouse or retail store that has no drop ceiling.

    There was a 1920’s skyscraper near the WTC that caught fire but did not collapse. Before they had computers they would engineer structures with large safety factors because they did not know exactly where the edge was and didn’t want to skate anywhere near it. Also that building was so old that it didn’t even have spray on fireproofing. As fireproofing, every column had been encased in terra cotta tiles on all sides and these stood the heat very well. (The amount of hand labor that went into these old structures was enormous – before they could cast I-beams as 1 piece they would build them up from boiler plate and angle iron with hundreds and hundreds of rivets, each one hand hammered).

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D


    In the WTC the original coating was asbestos but when asbestos became a dirty word they removed that coating and resprayed it with less toxic materials. There is some question as to how good a job they did.
     
    That fire-proofing also got scoured off by shrapnel, i.e., the shredded, disintegrating airplanes, so that it was likely bare steel that was exposed to the fire fed by JP, plastics, paper, and even aluminum from the aircraft themselves.

    Replies: @Kyle

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    What kind of cast I-beam are you writing about? All the ones I've seen are welded from 3 (or more) plates.

    Otherwise, interesting comment.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  87. @Jack D
    @candid_observer

    Good point. Here are the state cutoffs:

    http://www.compassprep.com/national-merit-semifinalist-cutoffs/

    W. Virginia (in the eastern SAT belt, but still low) 209 - also Dakotas and Wyoming

    Utah 215

    Massachusetts, NJ 222

    So Utah is in the middle of the pack along with a lot of states all over the map.

    Replies: @for-the-record

    Interestingly, DC is tied with Massachusetts and New Jersey for highest cut-off, which is perhaps not what one might have predicted. According to Wikipedia, in 2014 the student population was 67% black, 17% hispanic, 12% non-hispanic white and 4% “other”.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @for-the-record

    Nope, that's exactly what I would have expected!

  88. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “What’s happening here? The state population is now about 13 percent Hispanic, but only 1 percent black. Part of the explanation is probably the Mormon Church’s century of institutional racism.”

    Race-ism is best foundation for social-capitalism. Swedish model of social-capitalism was working just fine too… until Diversity came along.

    In a way, Mormons became the way they are because they excluded others, but it was also because others excluded them. In this, they are like Jews who were excluded by others but also excluded others. Thus, Mormons developed a ghetto mentality.

    There are two meanings of justice.

    1. Righting wrongs. So, if Bob does something wrong to John, Bob owes John something. It is about redress and punishment for violation of the law. This concept of justice is represented by ‘eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth’ in the Bible. By this concept, if someone didn’t do you any wrong, there is no injustice, and he owes you nothing.

    2. A sense of shared survival and success. This concept of justice is found in the Exodus. Moses feels a need to lead ALL Jews out of Egypt. He doesn’t owe them anything as he didn’t do any of them wrong on a personal basis, but as a Jew, he feels responsible for other Jews. This concept of justice says it is not enough for a person to be successful as an individual and care only about himself. He must belong to a community and work for the common good.
    Greek mythology is more individual oriented. It’s about the rare hero who rises above others and demonstrates his superiority, like Perseus slaying Medusa. To be sure, in doing so, he saves others of his kind. And Theseus aids his community by slaying the Minotaur who feeds on the girls. Still, the emphasis is on the individual feat. In contrast, the stories in the Bible emphasize how every individual’s deed relates to the family and tribe. Communism, a secular form of Judeo-Christian worldview, tried to create this Jewish-communal-sense-of-justice on a universal scale, at least for all the workers of the world, but it was too much. This kind of communal justice works on the ethnic or, at best, on the national level IF the nation is racially and culturally homogeneous. Anyway, this idea that a people must all ‘make it together’ is found in the Yimou movie NOT ONE LESS, a kind of ‘no child left behind’. It works best within a shared racial community.

    Mormon capitalism is tied to their brand of social-culturalism. But this will fray if the Mormon community becomes diversified.
    When it comes to family formation, it seems like Mormons have this sense that generating children is a kind of future-socialism or bio-socialism. In a way, having children is ‘socialist’ in the sense that you have to share your earnings with others. Purely from an economic viewpoint, children are ‘parasitic’. They do no work and suck on the wealth of parents. Parents must buy them food, spend time with them, clothe them, provide medical care, and etc. It is very taxing. So, why do it? Why is future-socialism rewarding in ways that paying taxes to take care of strangers isn’t?
    Because there is a bond of love and happiness between parents and one’s own children that are unlike any other. Also, unlike strangers who live off the tax revenues of others(via the confiscatory state) and show NO gratitude but just demand MORE, children are happy and grateful for anything they get from parents, even just an apple or orange.
    Also, if children are raised properly with healthy development of identity, culture, history, values, arts, culture, and appreciation of nature, they carry on the heritage of the community even after their parents pass away. And in earlier times, they took care of the parents. This was a big theme especially in China. Kids were social security. Parents had to provide stuff for them, but kids provide stuff for parents grown old.
    So, family formation is bio-cultural socialism into the future. Parents share their wealth with kids, but kids are later required to do their duty to parents and culture.
    This sense has weakened over the yrs because the state now provides for old people. Also, with the fading of identity and culture, people no longer feel that there is something to pass down to their kids as heritage and obligation. If a people no longer believe in what they are racially, ethnically, culturally, or historically, there is no need to pass it down to kids to keep the torch lit and going. Today, most young people culturally identify with celebrities and what Chris Hedges calls the Empire of Illusion.

    Orthodox Jews and Mormons still have a strong identity, and they feel this identity must be kept alive through the ages. And the ONLY way to ensure that is to have kids.

  89. @Triumph104
    @International Jew

    The Asian population in Utah is only 2.5%. I doubt they have the test prep infrastructure that is prevalent in Asian heavy areas of the country. Still, the Asians are punching above their weight, especially at Skyline and West High Schools.

    White Mormons in Utah are almost exclusively of Northern European ancestry - English, Irish, Scottish, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, and German. In addition, Mormons have the study habits of Orthodox Jews. Mormon teens must attend seminary from the ages of 14-18 in addition to regular high school classes. In Utah a seminary building is located adjacent to public high schools (Mormons don't have parochial schools like other religions) and students attend a session sometime during the day depending on their schedule. Teens in areas with low Mormon populations meet in homes or at church before school.

    Here is the NBA's Jabari Parker attending seminary as a Chicago high school student. The simple lesson is probably for the TV cameras.

    https://youtu.be/SmvnHwPVHiQ?t=70

    Replies: @Jack D

    Maybe the simple lesson is for Jabari’s benefit.

  90. @candid_observer
    @Jack D

    I suspect that if Utah has fewer National Merit Scholars than their population would predict, it would be because many Mormons don't take the appropriate tests -- perhaps taking the ACT instead?

    In principle, each state should produce the same proportion of National Merit Scholars, since the cutoff for becoming a semifinalist is adjusted to the state to produce the same percentage.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Triumph104

    Yes. The state of Utah pays for every public school 11th grader that takes the ACT.

    • Replies: @res
    @Triumph104

    Thanks. I did not realize that students taking the ACT often did not take the PSAT (or that this tended to lower cutoffs, not obvious to me since I would have expected the best students to take more of the tests).

    http://www.compassprep.com/psat-national-merit-faq/


    Why are Semifinalist cut-offs so much higher in some states than in others?
    Two things impact state cut-off levels – participation rates and demographics. In some states, ACT is the dominant test and not as many students take the PSAT. This leaves some students out of the competition and will tend to lower the cut-offs. Some states have large pockets of extremely qualified students and are particularly competitive. ...
     
    Despite

    Do I need to take the SAT to become a Semifinalist?
    No. Commended Student and Semifinalist recognition are based only on your Selection Index and your entry eligibility.
     
  91. There’s a more troubling theory: that at least some of Utah’s success lies in its lack of racial diversity.

    Maybe one day all the public intellectuals will gather in one place, hold hands, close their eyes, and on the count of three shout in unison, “Diversity is a terrible problem!”

    That way none of them has to be the first to say out loud what all of them must really know by now.

  92. One thing the referenced article hinted at, but did not fully explore (perhaps out of fear of being politically incorrect) is that in homogenous societies (or an homogenous group) the people can be honest and deal with reality. They can come up with real solutions to real problems. If speaking the truth or identifying the real cause of a problem makes you unpopular you will remain quiet and, as a result the real problem will never be addressed and real solutions will never be adopted.

    • Agree: Triumph104
  93. I don’t know Mr. Sailer but I think the secular religion of atheism (practiced by many of the folks around here even) is pretty weird. It doesn’t seem to build very successful societies in the long run. But that’s just weird ol’ me.

  94. @Discordiax
    "China has an irrational well founded fear of black immigrants bringing drugs, crime and interracial marriage marriage competition for Chinese women.
    https://qz.com/945053/china-has-an-irrational-fear-of-a-black-invasion-bringing-drugs-crime-and-interracial-marriage/

    The comments from the professors at western universities are the best. Almost every one is a direct inversion of empirical reality. "Black people are falsely stereotyped as [doing things black people do a lot of]", from rape (Elbridge Cleaver) to getting girls pregnant and abandoning them (Barack Obama Sr), to using drugs and being out late at night in groups, going to nightclubs, having higher rates of AIDS and Ebola. C'mon, everybody knows black people never do those things.


    “Their perception was that I was somehow better than a black person from Africa because of my Americanness. Part of this is rooted in… mistaken beliefs of American wealth and power versus stereotypes of African poverty and suffering.”
     
    "Mistaken" must be how the hip kids say "entirely and completely accurate" these days.

    Replies: @WowJustWow, @a reader

    Thanks for this interesting story, Discordiax.

    I enjoyed this passage most:

    the notion that black people are “taking over” the world’s most populous nation is nonsense.

    Estimates for the number of sub-Saharan Africans in Guangzhou (nicknamed “Chocolate City” in Chinese) range from … [here I was expecting a few hundreds or at most a couple thousands] … 150,000 long-term residents, according to 2014 government statistics, to as high as 300,000—figures complicated by the number of Africans coming in and out of the country as well as those who overstay their visas.

    How irrational of you to be afraid of 1/3 million Africans in your midst!

    Guangzhou (aka Canton) has 13 million inhabitants, but still.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @a reader

    While those 2014 figures are official, they have also been disputed by authorities!

    I watch videos of a white South African Youtuber (SerpentZA). He lives in Shenzhen which in the same province (Guangdong) as Guangzhou. He is a sub-Saharan African -- they aren't all black.

    Besides, there have been numerous reports in the last year that the black population has decreased markedly, due to economics and being unwelcomed - visas not renewed. If there are illegal black Africans in China, it is only because the Chinese government wants them there and is willing to look the other way. Chinese police have no problem stopping anyone and verifying their status.

    Most black Africans are in China temporarily to conduct business.


    Today, Guangzhou is believed to have the largest African population in Asia, according to a 2014 report by the Guangzhou Development Research Institute. The report said at one point, there were up to 200,000 Africans in the city - an estimate that authorities have disputed.

    In 2014, at the height of the Ebola crisis, the city’s vice-mayor said there were about 16,000 Africans in Guangzhou, of which 4,000 were residents.
     

    Another Togolese trade named Florent said: “Sometimes they’ll check you. Some countries, like European countries, police cannot come to you and ask for your passport. But in China, they’ll come to you and ask for your passport.”
     
    http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/african-migrants-leaving-guangzhou-s-little-africa/3376408.html
  95. they’ve built themselves a private welfare state, without most of the moral hazard that goes with government welfare states.

    This is why entitlements are such a bad idea. As long as you meet the written criteria, you get the entitlement, even if you are an asshole. You can’t put “not be an asshole” into the administrative code.

  96. Megan, who gives a shit where you were born and/or raised?

    Feminized journalism (“Everything is about me, myself, and I!”) makes for tedious reading.

    Oh, very well, let me add a pointless personal anecdote about Noo Yawk:

    One of my high-school graduation presents (the nicest one, by far) was a trip to New York with my grandmother.

    (She traveled frequently, and never alone – she always brought one or more relatives along. I’d already taken two or three long trips with her.)

    We were there over the Fourth of July. We had such a good time that, even before we left, she declared that we would come back the next year. (Certainly I wasn’t going to turn down her offer.)

    On our last day there, we were in Lower Manhattan, and I said, “You know, we’re near the World Trade Center. It’s one of the tallest buildings in the world. Can we see it?”

    She was exhausted – we’d hit all the tourist hotspots – and she said, “We’ll see it next year.”

    That was two months before 9/11.

    I did, indeed, visit Ground Zero during the spring-break week of my freshman year of college.

    I never had the real college experience – I lived at home. I spent many long hours in the library, glued to the microfilm machine, and got into the habit of checking ten or more books out at once. I ordered hundreds, maybe even thousands, of books through Interlibrary Loan.

    I’m not a Mormon, by the way – just a sperg. I abuse caffeine to an incredible degree.

    Top that, Megan!

  97. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    One reason Mormons try so hard to maintain their identity and culture could be because Mormonism is so phony. It’s fake identity and fake history.

    Sure, all traditions and narratives are founded on myth. The Greek myths, Roman myths, the beginning in the Bible, and etc. But those stories really arose when people believed in gods and magic. And they developed over a long period of time and, as such, are the product of rich and complex historical processes.

    In contrast, Mormonism was concocted overnight by some huckster. Its history of God and America is pretty hilarious. Also, the Book of Mormon is no great piece of literature like the Old Testament, New Testament, and even the Koran.
    It’s like Scientology of the 19th century.

    Thus, Mormonism is one religion that can crumble overnight. So, the only way to keep it going is to always be in active and hardy mode.

    Mitt Romney represents all that is good and bad about Mormonism. He has a large devoted family. He seems to have led a straight and narrow life at least when compared to Kennedies and Clintons. But, he’s just a multi-faced(than multi-faceted) opportunist and salesman.

    I always found Quakers a bit weird, but there is a real spiritual core there.
    In contrast, Mormonism is like sci-fi cult or superhero story of Christianity.

    This cartoon mocks Mormonism but prolly isn’t far from Mormon narrative.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Anon

    Nothing is funnier than Black Muslim theology:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUEN1ZuDSMg

    Replies: @Anon

    , @SFG
    @Anon

    As an extremely distant relative once said, ye shall know them by their fruits. They stay out of trouble, raise nice families, exceed the replacement rate, and they're all so clean! Mormonism works for Mormons. They found a way to live in the 1950s long after the 1950s passed.

    The scifi stuff is silly, but so is praying at a giant rock in the desert or not wearing two fabrics of clothing together. Even the South Park guys had to relent when making fun of the Mormons--their usual point is that the theology is silly but the people are nice.

    Replies: @TelfoedJohn

  98. @Ed
    @anony-mouse

    Good point & WV has the highest black % of the 3 states at a robust, 3.4%. So blacks aren't a factor. Maybe the American Nations theory is also a driver of this theory? Maine has a large French Canadian group that has historically struggled. WV is dominated by the quarrelsome Scot-Irish.

    Replies: @Jack D, @midtown, @Triumph104, @David Davenport

    I look at infant mortality data by state and race to find the states with dysfunctional whites. Contrary to popular opinion, a disparity in morbidity and mortality rates is not due to a lack of access to medical services but is instead caused by behavior.

    For whites in 2011-2013, the US average infant mortality rate was 5.1. For individual states, the range was 3.2 to 7.0.

    White Infant Mortality Rate — US Average 5.1
    New Jersey 3.2
    Massachusetts 3.5
    Georgia 5.1
    Louisiana 6.2 (French Canadians)
    Maine 6.8
    West Virginia 7.0

    http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/infant-mortality-rate-by-race-ethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

    • Replies: @anony-mouse
    @Triumph104

    Infant mortality rate-Quebec 4.9

    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/health21a-eng.htm

    Quebec is overwhelmingly White, and the Whites are overwhelmingly 'French-Canadian'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada

    Replies: @Ed

  99. res says:
    @Jack D
    @res

    Maybe in the future they will have a National White Scholars program with lower cutoff so that they don't have to compete with the Asians.

    The township where Conestoga HS is has a fair # of Asians but nothing like the 80% that is their % in the NMSF.

    Regarding PA vs MD, MD is raised up by the DC suburbs which have some of the highest % of college grads in the US.

    In PA you have the Philadelphia area (most of the scholars are in the suburbs- the city is a black hole) and the Pittsburgh area and everywhere else is West Virginia.

    Replies: @res

    Maybe in the future they will have a National White Scholars program with lower cutoff so that they don’t have to compete with the Asians.

    You jest (maybe, who knows if the Asian population in the US keeps increasing), but if the groups were reversed you know we would already have a separate program.

    Regarding PA vs MD, MD is raised up by the DC suburbs which have some of the highest % of college grads in the US.

    Agreed. I ran into a surprising number of students from the DC suburbs when I went to (a very selective) college.

    In PA you have the Philadelphia area (most of the scholars are in the suburbs- the city is a black hole) and the Pittsburgh area and everywhere else is West Virginia.

    That makes sense. I bet the contrast between the scholarly group and the rest shows up starkly in all sorts of measures.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @res


    Agreed. I ran into a surprising number of students from the DC suburbs when I went to (a very selective) college.
     
    I noticed that blacks and Hispanics in Montgomery County and Howard County, MD have AP pass rates that are 20-plus percentage points higher than the national average for each race. I couldn't find data for Prince George's County.

    http://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2015/15%2012%2010%20AP%20Exams%20Prin.memo.pdf
    http://www.hcpss.org/f/academics/2015-ap-exam-participation-performance-results.pdf

    Replies: @res

  100. res says:
    @Triumph104
    @candid_observer

    Yes. The state of Utah pays for every public school 11th grader that takes the ACT.

    Replies: @res

    Thanks. I did not realize that students taking the ACT often did not take the PSAT (or that this tended to lower cutoffs, not obvious to me since I would have expected the best students to take more of the tests).

    http://www.compassprep.com/psat-national-merit-faq/

    Why are Semifinalist cut-offs so much higher in some states than in others?
    Two things impact state cut-off levels – participation rates and demographics. In some states, ACT is the dominant test and not as many students take the PSAT. This leaves some students out of the competition and will tend to lower the cut-offs. Some states have large pockets of extremely qualified students and are particularly competitive. …

    Despite

    Do I need to take the SAT to become a Semifinalist?
    No. Commended Student and Semifinalist recognition are based only on your Selection Index and your entry eligibility.

  101. An enormous and relevant issue has gone unexplored here: Mormonism is exploding in the Spanish-speaking world and Utah is rapidly diversifying. Every Mormon I talk to talks about Mexicans in Utah and many of them are happy about it.
    Traitor Evan McMullin profitedly handsomely from his neocon crimes by following up terror sponsorship and nation destabilization with an undeniably smart investment in refugee warehousing. You could say he gets them coming and going.
    Yes, we all have this cartoon of white Utah emerging into modernity from a 50s bomb shelter, and it’s a funny cartoon, but there are numerous facts complicating it.
    An arguably not-enormous and irrelevant issue, and something a “[journalist] from Manhattan” would never pick up on, is the presupposition that a Satanic parody of Freemasonry, which decorates its crossless temples with images of the planet Saturn, and which does not believe in inalienable rights or free will, and which has literally totalitarian structures, rigid information control, a habit of casting rebellious youth out into homelessness, a history of brutal thought policing and secret purges, and which operates both as a for-profit corporation and a church, has any meaningful connection to any version of the United States under the Constitution.
    They weren’t driven to Utah by the Spanish Inquisition. They were driven out of earlier settlements because they are literally the Christian Taliban, secretly took over political power, and attempted to impose Mormonism by force on the native citizens, who properly revolted.
    Individual Mormons I have met are the nicest, friendliest, hardest-working people in any given group. They are also consistently credulous people and share characteristics with victims of childhood abuse. The Mormons are wonderful but the Church is scum.
    (If you visit 4chan’s politics board today, please be sure to check the calendar.)

  102. @anony-mouse
    Utah is only 13th on the list of White percentage.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans

    WV is third and has been perpetually poor.

    ME is second and has never been well off.

    It's Mormonism.

    Replies: @Ed, @Mr. Anon, @Seamus Padraig, @syonredux

    Utah is only 13th on the list of White percentage.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans

    WV is third and has been perpetually poor.

    ME is second and has never been well off.

    It’s Mormonism.

    I suggest that you read Albion’s Seed sometime, dear fellow. White populations are not identical…..

  103. @Yak-15
    @Karl

    The Bronx has nice parts. Lots of natural features and topography. It's the population in most areas of the Bronx that makes it slummy. Check it out some time. (Driving, during the day)

    Replies: @Daniel H, @Karl

    The Grand Concourse is quite impressive. Between 1968-1972 white flight turned it into a quasi ghetto.

  104. @Anon
    One reason Mormons try so hard to maintain their identity and culture could be because Mormonism is so phony. It's fake identity and fake history.

    Sure, all traditions and narratives are founded on myth. The Greek myths, Roman myths, the beginning in the Bible, and etc. But those stories really arose when people believed in gods and magic. And they developed over a long period of time and, as such, are the product of rich and complex historical processes.

    In contrast, Mormonism was concocted overnight by some huckster. Its history of God and America is pretty hilarious. Also, the Book of Mormon is no great piece of literature like the Old Testament, New Testament, and even the Koran.
    It's like Scientology of the 19th century.

    Thus, Mormonism is one religion that can crumble overnight. So, the only way to keep it going is to always be in active and hardy mode.

    Mitt Romney represents all that is good and bad about Mormonism. He has a large devoted family. He seems to have led a straight and narrow life at least when compared to Kennedies and Clintons. But, he's just a multi-faced(than multi-faceted) opportunist and salesman.

    I always found Quakers a bit weird, but there is a real spiritual core there.
    In contrast, Mormonism is like sci-fi cult or superhero story of Christianity.

    This cartoon mocks Mormonism but prolly isn't far from Mormon narrative.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q6brMrFw0E

    Replies: @syonredux, @SFG

    Nothing is funnier than Black Muslim theology:

    • Replies: @Anon
    @syonredux

    But even that's nothing compared to a mountain-sized Negro(as god) who loves a little white mouse.

  105. @Seamus Padraig
    @anony-mouse

    Mormonism is now the fastest-growing in Brazil, which is not a terribly white country. A generation or two from now, it'll be interesting to see what becomes of the Brazilian Mormons. This could once and for all settle the question of whether Mormonism's success is inherently racial or inherently cultural.

    Replies: @syonredux

    Mormonism is now the fastest-growing in Brazil, which is not a terribly white country. A generation or two from now, it’ll be interesting to see what becomes of the Brazilian Mormons. This could once and for all settle the question of whether Mormonism’s success is inherently racial or inherently cultural.

    Have to control for things like self-selection, though. What kinds of Brazilians are attracted to Mormonism?

  106. @candid_observer
    Has anybody ever done an IQ study of Mormons?

    I very much have the impression that they punch above their weight in a variety of areas of achievement, and God knows that they have pursued unusual marriage practices that might be significantly eugenic.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @syonredux, @anon, @black sea

    and God knows that they have pursued unusual marriage practices that might be significantly eugenic.

    Polygamy is not eugenic

  107. @Hugh
    @Wilkey

    Although I'm no fan of polygamy, I prefer it to gay marriage. I would rather see a child adopted by a polygamous family than by a gay couple.

    How long the anti-polygamy laws can last I do not know.

    Replies: @syonredux

    Although I’m no fan of polygamy, I prefer it to gay marriage. I would rather see a child adopted by a polygamous family than by a gay couple.

    Scylla and Charybdis. Both mus be fought.

  108. @Jack D
    @candid_observer

    If anything, they punch below their weight for a mostly white state.

    They only practiced polygamy on a large scale basis for a few decades so I don't think there was enough time for it to be eugenic. Also it's not clear to me that polygamy is really eugenic for intelligence based on societies where it is widespread. Nerdy smart guys don't tend to end up with a lot of wives. One of the secrets of Ashkenazi Jewish eugenics is that it was one of the few cultures to make nerdiness sexy - the most prestigious spouse for a rich girl was someone who was a great (Torah) scholar. Likewise in China a Confucian scholar who could pass the civil service test was a desirable mate.

    The guys who end up with big harems in polygamous societies tend to be macho charismatic guys who are not dumb but are not that into scholarship either. If Trump had been a Mormon back in the day he was the kind of guy who would have had a lot of wives. Such guys also don't seem to be interested in selecting their wives based on intelligence either, so the whole scheme doesn't seem to be a plan for breeding really smart kids.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Johann Ricke, @AnotherDad

    I generally agree with your comment, but as the history of “legitimate” polygamy was explained to me by a Mormon, it was the church, not the husband, who chose the additional mates. It was supposed to be a duty undertaken by the most devout Mormon at the behest of the church, to provide a share of his husbanding to women who would otherwise go without. So, the traditional polygamous Mormon husband may not be a nerd, but he probably wasn’t a macho/charismatic guy either, rather whatever it was that appealed to the church elders in the 19th century: perhaps Amish-like devotion and get-along-ness.

    Anyhow, as you say, compared to Ashkenazi eugenics, the Mormon program hasn’t run very long.

    • Replies: @David
    @Almost Missouri

    At least one opinion piece published in the Western Standard in 1857 indicates that polygamy as practiced by Mormons was intentionally eugenic.


    Experience has long since taught mankind the necessity of observing certain natural laws in the propagation of animals, or the stock will degenerate and finally become extinct. But strange to say, in regard to the human animal, these laws, except in certain particulars, are more or less disregarded in these latter times...

    A well formed, healthy, vigorous race should be the end sought. …The ancient Spartans acted upon this policy, and the happy result was the production of a nation of the noblest men and women the world ever saw...

    Joseph Smith had penetration enough to know, that so long as the bodies of men are weak, degenerate, and tainted with impurities inherited from their fathers for a thousand generations, it is impossible to accomplish with them any great moral improvement, or indoctrinate them with many divine truths. Therefore, being divinely aided, he introduced a system……He taught that none but healthy men should marry–that a man should know his wife for the purpose of procreation and for that only–that he should keep himself apart from her during the carrying and nursing periods–that it is lawful and right, God commanding, for a man to have more than one wife...

    This theory is reduced to practice in Utah Territory; and it is remarked by immigrants passing through Salt Lake City, that the proportion of children is unusually great, and they are uncommonly robust and healthy. Who cannot see that the mental vigor of those children will be in proportion to their physical perfection?
     
    I lifed this from this blog: https://bycommonconsent.com/2006/08/02/eugenics/

    Replies: @Jack D, @stillCARealist, @Almost Missouri

  109. @Jack D
    @Buffalo Joe

    I never doubted this. As I'm sure you know, structural steel (in buildings, not highways) is supposed to be sprayed with a fireproof coating for just this reason. In the WTC the original coating was asbestos but when asbestos became a dirty word they removed that coating and resprayed it with less toxic materials. There is some question as to how good a job they did.

    The WTC was also very lightly built for a skyscraper. Their goal was to have big floors with column free space so the building was built with a structural inner core and an outer structural tube and in between they used very light zig-zag trusses like what you would see in the roof of a warehouse or retail store that has no drop ceiling.

    There was a 1920's skyscraper near the WTC that caught fire but did not collapse. Before they had computers they would engineer structures with large safety factors because they did not know exactly where the edge was and didn't want to skate anywhere near it. Also that building was so old that it didn't even have spray on fireproofing. As fireproofing, every column had been encased in terra cotta tiles on all sides and these stood the heat very well. (The amount of hand labor that went into these old structures was enormous - before they could cast I-beams as 1 piece they would build them up from boiler plate and angle iron with hundreds and hundreds of rivets, each one hand hammered).

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Achmed E. Newman

    In the WTC the original coating was asbestos but when asbestos became a dirty word they removed that coating and resprayed it with less toxic materials. There is some question as to how good a job they did.

    That fire-proofing also got scoured off by shrapnel, i.e., the shredded, disintegrating airplanes, so that it was likely bare steel that was exposed to the fire fed by JP, plastics, paper, and even aluminum from the aircraft themselves.

    • Replies: @Kyle
    @Mr. Anon

    It must have been scoured off by shrapnel because the fire compromised the steel. Thats what must have happened. We're taking the conclusion and working back towards a hypothesis.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Mr. Anon

  110. @syonredux
    @Anon

    Nothing is funnier than Black Muslim theology:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUEN1ZuDSMg

    Replies: @Anon

    But even that’s nothing compared to a mountain-sized Negro(as god) who loves a little white mouse.

  111. @pyrrhus
    @Wilkey

    Exactly right. Most Mormons don't approve of polygamy....
    Megan McArdle also missed the fact that Salt Lake itself is majority non Mormon...

    Replies: @Wilkey

    “Megan McArdle also missed the fact that Salt Lake itself is majority non Mormon…”

    Yep. Does the data she cites include only Salt Lake City proper, which has less than 200,000 people, or is it for the entire county (1 million+) or for the metro area which is somewhat larger than the county?

    She also reports that many young Mormon missionaries (i.e., the ones who go around age 18-19) do service missions. That isn’t true. All young Mormon missionaries are on proselyting missions, sfaik. The “service missions” are reserved for older people, who usually do it after retirement and often stay in their hometowns rather than traveling abroad.

    The Mormon Church itself is increasingly wasteful and corrupt. It’s been captured by the same union of political correctness and the cheap labor lobby that has conquered so many other American institutions. You can pretty much be assured that the LDS Church won’t be standing up to the multicult for a good long time to come. The days when the church opposed gay marriage and the idiotic ERA are over.

  112. @Karl
    if you were BORN AND RAISED on the Upper West Side, you're not from any seriously real money.

    Having a view of the railroad-car stockyards is rather different than having a view of the Central Park Zoo.

    But I guess it's better than growing up in the Bronx. you have a view of the Fulton Fish Market.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @benjaminl, @anonymous, @George, @Jimi, @Yak-15, @SFG, @Achmed E. Newman, @Forbes

    Parts of the Upper West Side are extremely affluent. Manhattan was notorious for having slums a few blocks from rich people for a while.

  113. @Hodag
    http://slatestarcodex.com/blog_images/albion_gene.jpg

    Mormons are from Puritan stock. High education, high social trust. Same as New England folks that run Harvard and high culture America.

    This is like looking at Ashkenazi Jewish community or Cantonese diaspora Han. It works for them but not everyone is so bookish.

    Replies: @gregor, @Flip

    The religion has Protestant New England roots (both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young being from that region) but only a very small percentage of those that settled Utah were of literal Puritan stock.

    “As the Church spread through Europe, tens of thousands of new converts emigrated to America, leaving everything behind them for their faith and desire to be with fellow members. Of the 60,000 to 70,000 Saints who emigrated to the Salt Lake Valley in the late 1800s, more than 98 percent of the survivors were from Europe, and 75 percent were from Britain.”

    https://history.lds.org/article/pioneer-story-the-convert-immigrants-?lang=eng

    So mostly Anglo with a good dose of Scandinavian, but most immigrated from Europe in the mid 19th century.

    • Replies: @Hodag
    @gregor

    Ok, my thesis seems holed below the waterline.

    I am very surprised that Mormonism is mostly a European religion. Was the Illinois pograms more anti-foreign than anti-plural wife?

    This may be my trying to save my pet theory...But Mormon history is suspect. The church has gone out of their way to protect their narrative, ie the 80s bombings.

  114. @anonymous
    @Karl

    I believe that Megan Mac is a libertarian--something of a rarity in the traditionally Jewish Far Left Upper West Side. I am hearing, though, that the times they are a-changin' in the UWS. The old Jews are dying off and Morningside Heights to the north (which is almost exclusively "Latino") is creeping south while Harlem to the east becomes more and more gentrified as the blacks are being given their Section-8 tickets to what used to be called "suburbia" (a phenomenon about which Steve has written at considerable length).

    Replies: @SFG

    Lots of libertarians were Jewish. Read Murray Rothbard’s Sociology of the Ayn Rand Cult–it’s really quite funny.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/murray-n-rothbard/understanding-ayn-randianism/

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    @SFG

    True.

    For some reason, though, many people--especially those who've never spent much time in Manhattan--have a very difficult time reconciling two easily observable (e.g. to anyone in NYC) facts:

    1. Very few Jews are libertarians but
    2. Lots of libertarians are Jewish.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Sleestak

    , @anonymous
    @SFG

    Yes indeed. Including Milton Friedman.

    , @jack ryan
    @SFG

    And it is a brutal, sad reality that Jewish Libertarians are usually as fanatical about open borders immigration to the USA as the worst Lib Leftist Jews.

    The case of the ugly Jewess Tamar Jacoby shows this to be the case.

    Tamar Jacoby was a typical Jewish marxist at the New School of Social Research, then she crosses the street one day and works for the Wall Street Journal as a libertarian and immigration crusader (for USA, the West). She's also a super strong supporter of the state of Israel as a Jewish ethno state. She sees no contradiction in these positions.

    It's goes with the idea with Jews (Arabs and Muslims do the same thing)

    "What's mine is mine. What's yours needs to be multi cultural".

  115. SFG says:
    @Anon
    One reason Mormons try so hard to maintain their identity and culture could be because Mormonism is so phony. It's fake identity and fake history.

    Sure, all traditions and narratives are founded on myth. The Greek myths, Roman myths, the beginning in the Bible, and etc. But those stories really arose when people believed in gods and magic. And they developed over a long period of time and, as such, are the product of rich and complex historical processes.

    In contrast, Mormonism was concocted overnight by some huckster. Its history of God and America is pretty hilarious. Also, the Book of Mormon is no great piece of literature like the Old Testament, New Testament, and even the Koran.
    It's like Scientology of the 19th century.

    Thus, Mormonism is one religion that can crumble overnight. So, the only way to keep it going is to always be in active and hardy mode.

    Mitt Romney represents all that is good and bad about Mormonism. He has a large devoted family. He seems to have led a straight and narrow life at least when compared to Kennedies and Clintons. But, he's just a multi-faced(than multi-faceted) opportunist and salesman.

    I always found Quakers a bit weird, but there is a real spiritual core there.
    In contrast, Mormonism is like sci-fi cult or superhero story of Christianity.

    This cartoon mocks Mormonism but prolly isn't far from Mormon narrative.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q6brMrFw0E

    Replies: @syonredux, @SFG

    As an extremely distant relative once said, ye shall know them by their fruits. They stay out of trouble, raise nice families, exceed the replacement rate, and they’re all so clean! Mormonism works for Mormons. They found a way to live in the 1950s long after the 1950s passed.

    The scifi stuff is silly, but so is praying at a giant rock in the desert or not wearing two fabrics of clothing together. Even the South Park guys had to relent when making fun of the Mormons–their usual point is that the theology is silly but the people are nice.

    • Replies: @TelfoedJohn
    @SFG

    The more absurd the religion, the greater effort made by its adherents to prove their lifestyle is right. The Black Hebrew Israelites of Israel are another example. They descend from African Americans who believe that they are descended from real Jews etc, and they adhere to a healthy lifestyle: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/food/.premium-1.713320

    I'm willing to bet they live much longer and are more productive than other African Americans. And they can only do this because they have ludicrous beliefs.

    Replies: @Massimo Heitor

  116. If we knew what Salt Lake City was doing right.

    Or maybe the whole country used to look a lot like Utah and, back then, we had a solution. But then we broke the country with diversity and now remote Utah is just a rare shard of what we used to have nationwide?

    Yeah, there you go. That’s the answer. We here know that. I’m just a baritone in the choir.

    Speaking of choirs, Mormons have good ones. They also personify and live by the basic, paint-by-numbers rules of American success. When I lived in that region, I befriended a few of them. They invited me to their temples on Sundays, and I went. They gave me books to read, and I read them.

    Howard Hughes famously hired Mormons to be his top executives, because they were trustworthy and they believed in the work ethic that created all we enjoy now and are about to lose.

    No wonder they are among the remaining artifacts of the real America.

  117. @Almost Missouri
    @Jack D

    I generally agree with your comment, but as the history of "legitimate" polygamy was explained to me by a Mormon, it was the church, not the husband, who chose the additional mates. It was supposed to be a duty undertaken by the most devout Mormon at the behest of the church, to provide a share of his husbanding to women who would otherwise go without. So, the traditional polygamous Mormon husband may not be a nerd, but he probably wasn't a macho/charismatic guy either, rather whatever it was that appealed to the church elders in the 19th century: perhaps Amish-like devotion and get-along-ness.

    Anyhow, as you say, compared to Ashkenazi eugenics, the Mormon program hasn't run very long.

    Replies: @David

    At least one opinion piece published in the Western Standard in 1857 indicates that polygamy as practiced by Mormons was intentionally eugenic.

    Experience has long since taught mankind the necessity of observing certain natural laws in the propagation of animals, or the stock will degenerate and finally become extinct. But strange to say, in regard to the human animal, these laws, except in certain particulars, are more or less disregarded in these latter times…

    A well formed, healthy, vigorous race should be the end sought. …The ancient Spartans acted upon this policy, and the happy result was the production of a nation of the noblest men and women the world ever saw…

    Joseph Smith had penetration enough to know, that so long as the bodies of men are weak, degenerate, and tainted with impurities inherited from their fathers for a thousand generations, it is impossible to accomplish with them any great moral improvement, or indoctrinate them with many divine truths. Therefore, being divinely aided, he introduced a system……He taught that none but healthy men should marry–that a man should know his wife for the purpose of procreation and for that only–that he should keep himself apart from her during the carrying and nursing periods–that it is lawful and right, God commanding, for a man to have more than one wife…

    This theory is reduced to practice in Utah Territory; and it is remarked by immigrants passing through Salt Lake City, that the proportion of children is unusually great, and they are uncommonly robust and healthy. Who cannot see that the mental vigor of those children will be in proportion to their physical perfection?

    I lifed this from this blog: https://bycommonconsent.com/2006/08/02/eugenics/

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @David


    Joseph Smith had penetration enough to know....
     
    many women in the Biblical sense.
    , @stillCARealist
    @David

    How many kids did Brigham Young have? 50 or so? I believe qb Steve Young is his great-grandson. Eugenics, and how.

    , @Almost Missouri
    @David

    So maybe the Grecian ideal appealed to 19th century church elders after all. Though I can't say as I've noticed Utah being a source of eugenic übermen.

    A friend of mine said that Utah had the prettiest girls, but when I visited him it didn't make that impression on me. I did think many boys looked flabby and awkward, but more in the way of being malnourished and sedentary rather than being ill bred.

  118. CJ says:
    @drahthaar
    maybe the whole country used to look a lot like Utah

    The Mormons live clean, go to church, have kids, go all in for self help and enterprise, and hard work. Their kids don't listen to thug rap or play video games. Moms love being moms. Gender dysphoria unknown.

    Mormons always have been upright, living a bit distant from the gentiles, who often find their religion hocus-pocus. My father, born a gentile in Utah in 1914, noted and admired this benevolent, socially constructive attitude in spite of theology. You see it in Idaho too, e.g., Boise.

    Secularists, expressive individuals, and diversity worshippers are puzzled by Mormon social outcomes? The American middle used to be more upright / "straight" / "square."

    Hollywood and New York media always eager to "expose" Mormon darkness and weird, like polygamy. It gives them a shiver.

    Replies: @CJ

    Mormons always have been upright, living a bit distant from the gentiles, who often find their religion hocus-pocus. My father, born a gentile in Utah in 1914, noted and admired this benevolent, socially constructive attitude in spite of theology. You see it in Idaho too, e.g., Boise.

    Secularists, expressive individuals, and diversity worshippers are puzzled by Mormon social outcomes? The American middle used to be more upright / “straight” / “square.”

    Yes. I worked in Idaho for a few months in the 1990s, observed the same, and liked it. The local motto then was, “Idaho is what America used to be.”

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @CJ

    Mormons are puzzling - OTOH Pat Boonish "squares" - no alcohol, not even coffee, but OTOH having (in their past at least) their kinky polygamous system. It's hard to reconcile the two. Very rarely do fringe religions with strange sexual practices otherwise go for complete middle class respectability.

    Replies: @whorefinder, @Alec Leamas

    , @Autochthon
    @CJ

    I was in Boise last year reconnoitering for a refuge. The place is already infected: refugees and avid support for them everywhere: people protesting in favour of refugees at the statehouse, exhibits praising refugees and multikulturalism in the squares, museums, and universities. Mexicans and Guatamalans and Africans at the farmers' market. Females walking around in their sacks. Apartment complexes and condominiums sprouting up like mushrooms as part of a ubiquitously growing, cancerous sprawl. Many of the naïve locals were enthusiastically reveling in how progressive they were and how much the area was booming.

    Fools, the lot of them.

    The fellow who drove my shuttle back to the airport from my hotel was a local, and I was the only passenger. Being sociable, he asked about my visit and what I'd thought. I replied candidly, and he commiserrated: he himself, a man about sixty who'd lived his whole life there and loved it, was only waiting for his dear mother to pass away so that he could flee. When I explained I'd been horrified and heartbroken and now had to seek other options (I'd been interviewing for an academic position) he sympathised.

    Sad. Very sad.

    Replies: @res, @Flip

  119. @SFG
    @anonymous

    Lots of libertarians were Jewish. Read Murray Rothbard's Sociology of the Ayn Rand Cult--it's really quite funny.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/murray-n-rothbard/understanding-ayn-randianism/

    Replies: @PV van der Byl, @anonymous, @jack ryan

    True.

    For some reason, though, many people–especially those who’ve never spent much time in Manhattan–have a very difficult time reconciling two easily observable (e.g. to anyone in NYC) facts:

    1. Very few Jews are libertarians but
    2. Lots of libertarians are Jewish.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @PV van der Byl

    That'd make the number of libertarians miniscule, right?

    I don't know if it is.

    Replies: @SFG

    , @Sleestak
    @PV van der Byl

    I would assume that the best arrangement for Jews would be a powerful government controlled by Jews or friends of Jews, but if that's not achievable the second best option would be a government too weak to harm Jews.

    Expect Jewish support for libertarianism to increase significantly the next 4 years.

  120. @a reader
    @Discordiax

    Thanks for this interesting story, Discordiax.

    I enjoyed this passage most:

    the notion that black people are “taking over” the world’s most populous nation is nonsense.

    Estimates for the number of sub-Saharan Africans in Guangzhou (nicknamed “Chocolate City” in Chinese) range from ... [here I was expecting a few hundreds or at most a couple thousands] ... 150,000 long-term residents, according to 2014 government statistics, to as high as 300,000—figures complicated by the number of Africans coming in and out of the country as well as those who overstay their visas.

    How irrational of you to be afraid of 1/3 million Africans in your midst!

    Guangzhou (aka Canton) has 13 million inhabitants, but still.

    Replies: @Triumph104

    While those 2014 figures are official, they have also been disputed by authorities!

    I watch videos of a white South African Youtuber (SerpentZA). He lives in Shenzhen which in the same province (Guangdong) as Guangzhou. He is a sub-Saharan African — they aren’t all black.

    Besides, there have been numerous reports in the last year that the black population has decreased markedly, due to economics and being unwelcomed – visas not renewed. If there are illegal black Africans in China, it is only because the Chinese government wants them there and is willing to look the other way. Chinese police have no problem stopping anyone and verifying their status.

    Most black Africans are in China temporarily to conduct business.

    Today, Guangzhou is believed to have the largest African population in Asia, according to a 2014 report by the Guangzhou Development Research Institute. The report said at one point, there were up to 200,000 Africans in the city – an estimate that authorities have disputed.

    In 2014, at the height of the Ebola crisis, the city’s vice-mayor said there were about 16,000 Africans in Guangzhou, of which 4,000 were residents.

    Another Togolese trade named Florent said: “Sometimes they’ll check you. Some countries, like European countries, police cannot come to you and ask for your passport. But in China, they’ll come to you and ask for your passport.”

    http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/african-migrants-leaving-guangzhou-s-little-africa/3376408.html

  121. @Hodag
    http://slatestarcodex.com/blog_images/albion_gene.jpg

    Mormons are from Puritan stock. High education, high social trust. Same as New England folks that run Harvard and high culture America.

    This is like looking at Ashkenazi Jewish community or Cantonese diaspora Han. It works for them but not everyone is so bookish.

    Replies: @gregor, @Flip

    New England Protestants haven’t run Harvard or high culture America for a long time.

  122. @Karl
    if you were BORN AND RAISED on the Upper West Side, you're not from any seriously real money.

    Having a view of the railroad-car stockyards is rather different than having a view of the Central Park Zoo.

    But I guess it's better than growing up in the Bronx. you have a view of the Fulton Fish Market.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @benjaminl, @anonymous, @George, @Jimi, @Yak-15, @SFG, @Achmed E. Newman, @Forbes

    Who cares? They’re all just a bunch of New Yorkers. We don’t discriminate where I live – we don’t like ANY New Yorkers – “West side, East side, “everybody’s coming down ….” Well, that reminds me: we like the Mets.

  123. Megan McArdle wrote:

    Bad news: The wide gulf between Utah and, say, North Carolina implies that we do, in fact, have a real problem on our hands. A child born in the bottom quintile of incomes in Charlotte has only a 4 percent chance of making it into the top quintile. A child in Salt Lake City, on the other hand, has more than a 10.8 percent chance — achingly close to the 11.7 percent found in Denmark and well on the way to the 20 percent chance you would expect in a perfectly just world.

    This statement is absurd. To summarize, McArdle apparently believes that in “a perfectly just world”—i.e. one that is perfectly free of impediments preventing each individual from rising or falling to the level of his natural ability, regardless of the social stratum in which he was born—a full fifth of those worthy to occupy the highest echelons of society would just happen to find themselves unhappily born into the lowest, with many of those hindered from assuming their rightful place by artificial social barriers correspondingly construed as “unjust.” It is as if the stork simply sprinkles children of random abilities throughout the full breadth of the socioeconomic spectrum, and that there are no other factors—hereditary, cultural, or circumstantial as the case may be—acting to conserve class distinctions within relatively stable breeding populations.

    This idea, which is all the more forceful for being a completely unconscious and axiomatic assumption (such that it can be dropped into the conversation neither needing justification nor fearing criticism), is one of the chief errors underlying all modern political thought, which is always in its essence social thought; that is to say, thought directed towards the solving of “social problems” conceived mechanistically and therefore attacked with the mathematical techniques of probabilities and aggregates. It obviously forms a large part of the modern liberal brief with “racism,” for the stork pays no heed to the color of the parents’ skin when salting the earth with geniuses, or so they believe. So also does it animate the advocates of unrestricted immigration; the stork is a species of bird with a global distribution, and casts his gifts of love unreservedly into every land and clime. In its deeps the idea is Manichean, as it appears to entails the belief in a separated soul-substance that finds itself enchained within the demiurgic darkness of social conditions, but not hypostatically united to any particular being.

    It is only necessary to examine the facts in order to reveal that the idea has no foundation in actuality; and this can be done—and should be done—without resorting to the HBD-favored explanations of genetics and psychology, which are rightfully regarded as resting on rather shaky and involved hypotheses that could be invalidated to the detriment of the entire argument. The plainest refutation is to be found in the social facts themselves. To this end I propose the following items for consideration.

    1. The real world is not a meritocracy in any case. Here the concept of “social justice’ itself deconstructs the twin assumptions that ability is evenly distributed and that equal abilities ought to lead to equal outcomes.

    [MORE]

    2. While it is true that some born unto lowly estates do not ascend and do not deserve their lot, that is also true of many who do ascend, i.e. they do not deserve their newfound fortune. Likewise it is true of some well-born people who are ruined, that they did not deserve their misfortune. Social mobility is not only a two-way street between the high and the low, it is also a road traveled, in both directions, by both the worthy and the unworthy. This is especially true if income by quintile is made the only criterion of social position.

    3. While the circulation of elites is vital to the health of the state, so also by implication is the non-circulation of the non-elites. Individuals constantly enter and exit each social stratum not only through social mobility, but also by birth and death. But lest society deteriorate into a formless mass, it is necessary that these class designations continue to have a stable and identifiable meaning in spite of the train of individuals passing through. There is no compelling reason for an upper stratum to open its doors to any but the most qualified candidates from the lower strata, and sometimes not even then when its own issue, though perhaps not ideal, is still nonetheless adequate. Furthermore, it is entirely imprudent to foist upon lower members of society burdens heavier than they can bear and challenges other than those they can successfully meet.

    4. A great deal is already said about the benefits of social mobility, but much more ought to be said about the advantages conferred by aristocracy. It is not unthinkable—indeed it is entirely reasonable to believe—that the fact of growing up in the very atmosphere of wealth and power is often an important element in qualifying one to successfully manage it later on. In an analogous sense, the burdens and exigencies peculiar to a working-class existence behave the same way. Rich kids seldom make good bricklayers, but the yeoman’s son knows every inch of the family farm intimately.

    5. Money, being a mobile and almost ephemeral form of property, is subject to volatile and often irrational ebbs and flows. Therefore, when monetary income is used as the sole measure of social status, it is bound to capture much that is transient, groundless, disruptive, and sometimes even destructive of the social order. The mere fact that, say, 10 percent of the first quintile made it to the fifth quintile over the course of their lives, can only be regarded as a meaningless datum in the absence of any information pertaining to how they got there or what else happened along the way.

    6. In today’s advanced societies, wherein the ultra-rich are almost unimaginably wealthy and the top few hundred or few thousand individuals have a fortune equal to the bottom three quintiles put together, it is fully possible to redistribute income away from the ultra-rich in an amount they would not even miss, to selected members of the lower classes greatly to their benefit. The upper classes may even undertake this task of their own volition, and this they often do and have done with the beneficiaries selected not according to merit but rather to their own sentiment and caprice.

    Although statements like ones above could be multiplied quite extensively, these six are sufficient to prove the main point. What does social mobility tell us about the so-called justice of a society? In a word, nothing. A perfectly just society never has and never will exist on earth, but a tolerably contented society may have a great deal of social mobility or none, depending on other conditions. Social mobility is not invariably good, and sometimes it is decidedly bad. Even so, a perfectly just world would be a world where everybody received his due, where everybody was paid out according to what he contributed; and what a man is able to contribute as an individual is not independent of the time, place, and circumstances of his birth. The notion that 20 percent of the first quintile should progress to the fifth quintile over the course of their lives implies not perfect justice, but the perfectly random distribution of talents and opportunities. This is not the case.

    When a Whitetopia like Mormon Utah builds a private welfare state that benefits its lower social strata, this is not justice nor even charity. It is beautification, largess, condescension, and—let us put a fine point on it—the falsification of social facts. It involves paying some members of society more than they are due and is thus fundamentally unjust, although not necessarily imprudent. It is either prudent or imprudent as the case may be, given the shifting plate tectonics of various conflicting social forces; but it must involve the lower classes eventually paying off their advances or it is merely dissipative in the long run. It is never Pareto optimal.

    From a purely economic and physical point of view there is no difference in the programs underlying Whitetopia, the worse-run government welfare state, or all of Keynesian economics itself. The only differences are in the mechanisms of redistribution and the identities of beneficiaries and benefactors. If it is necessary for governments to practice largess from time to time—and I maintain that it is—then it is necessary for states to be “unjust.” To the extent they are unjust, they must be preferential. To the extent they are preferential, they must be tribal. Therefore all governments that redistribute wealth are ipso facto nationalist governments. The only question is whether or not our nominal national government is actually benefiting us.

    It is clear that the US government is no longer benefiting White Americans. The question is can it be brought to do so, and how?

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I enjoy your work very much; you are a sound thinker and writer.

    I was about to select Agree until I reaached "When a Whiteopia..." for reasons identified in your penultimate paragraph:


    The only differences are in the mechanisms of redistribution and the identities of beneficiaries and benefactors.
     
    This facet is what justifies and salvages the entire affair, just as it ia justified foe a man to benefit his children. Always remember a race, and a fortiori and ethny, nation, village – if it be healthily homogenous – is a large, extended family. The Mormons are hardly ensconcing hewers of wood and drawers of water into the boardrooms of their corporations; they are merely looking after their own according to thoughtful stewardship, just as a wise and living father may entrust one son with different responsibilities than another. My (half) brothers dropped out of high school and became tradesmen, and I obtained two graduate degrees: until his untimely death, our father (mine by adoption and his own lovingkindness) treated us all with equal affection, but with guidance, support, and expectations commensurate to our abilities. A well ordered society does the same with its citizens, and from all my experiences of Mormons (not immersive, but substantial) they do so.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    , @ben tillman
    @Intelligent Dasein


    This statement is absurd. To summarize, McArdle apparently believes that in “a perfectly just world”—i.e. one that is perfectly free of impediments preventing each individual from rising or falling to the level of his natural ability, regardless of the social stratum in which he was born—a full fifth of those worthy to occupy the highest echelons of society would just happen to find themselves unhappily born into the lowest [fifth] . . . .
     
    It's crazy.
  124. @George
    " we broke the country with diversity"

    When did this happen? If your end of the 1950s nostagic paradise was 1965 because of the immigration act, it was also the year of Rolling Thunder, the unlimited US commitment to losing wars and lost causes, in this case Vietnam. After Vietnam new losing wars and lost causes were found, and conviently the inevitable refugee flows from non European nations could be resettled.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rolling_Thunder

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @AnotherDad

    Your argument seems to be that there were multiple causes of a broken nation via diversity. And of course there were. Some, like Hart-Cellar and refusal to enforce immigration law were direct, intentional, and catastrophic, others indirect and less significant. So what is your quarrel with Steve? How to you classify Eisenhower, who is responsible for committing the U.S. to stop the spread of Communism in Indochina and also responsible for Operation Wetback?

  125. @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D


    In the WTC the original coating was asbestos but when asbestos became a dirty word they removed that coating and resprayed it with less toxic materials. There is some question as to how good a job they did.
     
    That fire-proofing also got scoured off by shrapnel, i.e., the shredded, disintegrating airplanes, so that it was likely bare steel that was exposed to the fire fed by JP, plastics, paper, and even aluminum from the aircraft themselves.

    Replies: @Kyle

    It must have been scoured off by shrapnel because the fire compromised the steel. Thats what must have happened. We’re taking the conclusion and working back towards a hypothesis.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Kyle

    That's what's got to be done, cause it's not like you can model exactly where the jet fuel would end up during the impact, how much of it would burn, when it would start burning in order to get a 3-D representation of exactly what temperatures of what liquids, gases, and solids existed in space compared to the position of the building structural components. Oh, then the 4th axis would be time.

    It's not something modelable (OK, that might not be a real word) without an assload of extremely expensive testing of aircraft integrity during impact (I mean down to the piece-parts, leading edges, fuel tanks and parts, all of it)). I think there is no other way to analyze something like that other than making hypotheses from what happened and trying to back calculate whether each was remotely possible.

    Show me a paper with results from a model of the two airplane impacts and resulting destruction, with bright colored moving 3-D grids, and I'll tell you that is just as much garbage as the Global Climate Disruption(TM) folks will present. Some things can not be modeled without much more knowledge about each piece process, and usually the model fails anyway when well-known processes are put together.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Kyle

    That's a reasonable assumption, given that an airplane hit the building at about 500 mph. Of course, there are some people who deny that there even were airplanes that hit the building.

  126. @Pseudonymic Handle
    One day the mormons will build an interstellar ship and leave Earth behind.

    http://expanse.wikia.com/wiki/Nauvoo

    Replies: @CK

    Somebody will. If not the Mormons then some other similar group.

  127. @Shouting Thomas
    Will any politician ever dare to suggest that that chip on the shoulder attitude of blacks is a large part of what's holding them back?

    Replies: @MW, @MBlanc46, @Father O'Hara

    Are they held back? Massive welfare and government employment and constant threats and recriminations seems to be a darn good strategy for them. I can’t see them doing better on their own.

  128. @David
    @Almost Missouri

    At least one opinion piece published in the Western Standard in 1857 indicates that polygamy as practiced by Mormons was intentionally eugenic.


    Experience has long since taught mankind the necessity of observing certain natural laws in the propagation of animals, or the stock will degenerate and finally become extinct. But strange to say, in regard to the human animal, these laws, except in certain particulars, are more or less disregarded in these latter times...

    A well formed, healthy, vigorous race should be the end sought. …The ancient Spartans acted upon this policy, and the happy result was the production of a nation of the noblest men and women the world ever saw...

    Joseph Smith had penetration enough to know, that so long as the bodies of men are weak, degenerate, and tainted with impurities inherited from their fathers for a thousand generations, it is impossible to accomplish with them any great moral improvement, or indoctrinate them with many divine truths. Therefore, being divinely aided, he introduced a system……He taught that none but healthy men should marry–that a man should know his wife for the purpose of procreation and for that only–that he should keep himself apart from her during the carrying and nursing periods–that it is lawful and right, God commanding, for a man to have more than one wife...

    This theory is reduced to practice in Utah Territory; and it is remarked by immigrants passing through Salt Lake City, that the proportion of children is unusually great, and they are uncommonly robust and healthy. Who cannot see that the mental vigor of those children will be in proportion to their physical perfection?
     
    I lifed this from this blog: https://bycommonconsent.com/2006/08/02/eugenics/

    Replies: @Jack D, @stillCARealist, @Almost Missouri

    Joseph Smith had penetration enough to know….

    many women in the Biblical sense.

  129. @Buffalo Joe
    I will summarize: So much of what states like NY and California provide to their welfare class is provided in Utah by the Mormon Church. That's good. The Mormons are noted missionaries but I don't see them bringing back thousands of , let's say Somalis, to share their largess. That's bad. Therefore: Mormons are compassionate racists.

    Replies: @Kyle a

    Not many Somalians for sure, but plenty of Samoans and Asian types from the real downtrodden areas. They’ve brought plenty of them back hardly any of which actuall stay in Utah.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Kyle a

    Kyle a, didn't know about the Somoans, but you could probably bring them all over to the States and few would notice. Unless you were using them for shade on a sunny day.

  130. @Karl
    if you were BORN AND RAISED on the Upper West Side, you're not from any seriously real money.

    Having a view of the railroad-car stockyards is rather different than having a view of the Central Park Zoo.

    But I guess it's better than growing up in the Bronx. you have a view of the Fulton Fish Market.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @benjaminl, @anonymous, @George, @Jimi, @Yak-15, @SFG, @Achmed E. Newman, @Forbes

    The dilemma for McArdle, having declared as from the Upper West Side and thinks Utah is weird, most of the rest of the country thinks the Upper West Side is weird, squared–and yet the lopsidedness of that relationship completely escapes her. Seems like a huge bling spot, and a certain naivety.

    There’s a more troubling theory: that at least some of Utah’s success lies in its lack of racial diversity.

    McArdle says “bug” where everyone else sees “feature.” Imagine her diagnosis of Japan…

  131. @CJ
    @drahthaar


    Mormons always have been upright, living a bit distant from the gentiles, who often find their religion hocus-pocus. My father, born a gentile in Utah in 1914, noted and admired this benevolent, socially constructive attitude in spite of theology. You see it in Idaho too, e.g., Boise.

    Secularists, expressive individuals, and diversity worshippers are puzzled by Mormon social outcomes? The American middle used to be more upright / “straight” / “square.”
     
    Yes. I worked in Idaho for a few months in the 1990s, observed the same, and liked it. The local motto then was, "Idaho is what America used to be."

    Replies: @Jack D, @Autochthon

    Mormons are puzzling – OTOH Pat Boonish “squares” – no alcohol, not even coffee, but OTOH having (in their past at least) their kinky polygamous system. It’s hard to reconcile the two. Very rarely do fringe religions with strange sexual practices otherwise go for complete middle class respectability.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    @Jack D

    The blogger Agnostic has diagnosed Mormons as being descended from extremely gullible, extremely lost, socially-outcast folks in the past who were prime targets for cults, but whose cult happened to not be a doomsday cult, and whose premises (once polygamy was banned) improved the member's way of life.

    The cult members, being dedicated lonely sorts, followed the Mormon leaders from town to town despite being driven out by pitchforks and guns at every turn. Then they got to their commune in the desert and instead of dying out due to lack of supplies they, contra to most of cult behavior through history, made it work.

    Their strange overwhelming desire to be seen as part of the American mainstream is likely due to three factors:

    1) the lack of Jewish influence in organizing them into a grievance-DNC group

    2) the fact that they are descended from social outcasts desperate to belong, and therefore have a gene for an ingratiating desire, like how the weirdest kid in class with a piercing FOMO follows every major trend closely and adopts it to an artificial extreme.

    3) the fact that the Mormon Church has been an outcast since it's beginning, and thus its members have been consciously trying to change that via over-trying to integrate.

    , @Alec Leamas
    @Jack D

    Polygamy isn't all that strange - it was practiced in many cultures and at many times and survives in Islam, which is a fairly widespread religion. It's probably not too difficult to recruit prominent men to a polygamous system - I think it's the women (when they have some agency) that are the hard sell.

    Replies: @Flip, @Jack D

  132. @Jack D
    @candid_observer

    If anything, they punch below their weight for a mostly white state.

    They only practiced polygamy on a large scale basis for a few decades so I don't think there was enough time for it to be eugenic. Also it's not clear to me that polygamy is really eugenic for intelligence based on societies where it is widespread. Nerdy smart guys don't tend to end up with a lot of wives. One of the secrets of Ashkenazi Jewish eugenics is that it was one of the few cultures to make nerdiness sexy - the most prestigious spouse for a rich girl was someone who was a great (Torah) scholar. Likewise in China a Confucian scholar who could pass the civil service test was a desirable mate.

    The guys who end up with big harems in polygamous societies tend to be macho charismatic guys who are not dumb but are not that into scholarship either. If Trump had been a Mormon back in the day he was the kind of guy who would have had a lot of wives. Such guys also don't seem to be interested in selecting their wives based on intelligence either, so the whole scheme doesn't seem to be a plan for breeding really smart kids.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Johann Ricke, @AnotherDad

    Also it’s not clear to me that polygamy is really eugenic for intelligence based on societies where it is widespread. Likewise in China a Confucian scholar who could pass the civil service test was a desirable mate.

    Most of the world outside of Europe has been polygamous at least since anyone started keeping records. A variant of polygamy, concubinage, involving official, though inferior, status for partners other than the first wife, stable relationships and children with inheritance rights, was legal in much of the Far East up until the mid-20th century. Robert van Gulik, the Dutch author and China scholar, covered this aspect of Chinese social life peripherally in his Judge Dee detective novels. Polygamy was probably eugenic in the sense of passing on the genes of whatever aspect made a man a superior marriage prospect in a given society. In Confucian societies, this presumably meant, in addition to the kin and retainers personally loyal to the ruler, the genes of wealthy merchants, as well as scholars and high-ranking soldiers, whose positions gave them the power to amass the wealth necessary to main multiple concubines.

  133. @TheJester
    Having worked with many Black professionals, I've noticed that the most aggrieved among them seem to believe that Whites are given the good things in life. Whites do not work for the good things in life ... the good things are gifted to them. White privilege of course. Therefore, equity requires that Blacks also be gifted the good things of life simply because they are Black. To deny them these gifts would be racist.

    As one of these professionals once explained to me in an office drawing, "Think of a pie. This is the White piece and this is the Black piece. I'm Black, so this is my piece ... end of discussion."

    I guess he never stretched his imagination to wonder who bought the ingredients and baked the pie in the first place. Nonetheless, justice demands, he says, that as a Black he should also be gifted the sweet things in life created by Western civilization ... which in his case might be a degree from an Ivy League university and a BMW.

    Over the years, I've often supposed the greatest gift I could give a Black person is to teach him how to think like a White person. Then, perhaps, he might recognize the hard work and commitment associated with White privilege.

    Replies: @Yak-15, @Pat Boyle, @Ed

    I have a friend, no joke, who applied to several high-end law schools. He was rejected by every one except the one in which he listed his enthnicity as Latino. At that one he received a 100 pct scholarship (worth 150k) and a hand written letter begging him to come from the Dean.

    If that isn’t privilege I do not know what is.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Yak-15

    "I have a friend, no joke, who applied to several high-end law schools. He was rejected by every one except the one in which he listed his enthnicity as Latino. At that one he received a 100 pct scholarship (worth 150k) and a hand written letter begging him to come from the Dean.

    "If that isn’t privilege I do not know what is."

    Wow. I wonder, do these schools tell affirmative action admits that they have lower qualifications than all of the other students, or do they do almost the opposite and treat them like gold and as though they're more special than everyone else?

    Replies: @Yak-15

    , @Triumph104
    @Yak-15

    Last year an Italian kid got into all eight Ivy League colleges, Stanford, and UC Berkeley. I think he checked Hispanic. His twin brother got into Cornell early acceptance. LINK

    Chelsea Batista's parents are from the Dominican Republic. She applied to 18 medical schools and was invited to interview at all 18. She only had time to interview at 16 and received 11 offers of admission. Two of the medical schools awarded her full tuition scholarships. LINK

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Jus' Sayin'...

  134. @fitzGetty
    @whorefinder

    News just coming in ;
    Child sex ring arrested in Oxford, England.
    and :
    Child sex gang arrested in Banbury, Oxfordshire, England.

    Replies: @nglaer, @anon

    No surprises in who was arrested

  135. @for-the-record
    @Jack D

    Interestingly, DC is tied with Massachusetts and New Jersey for highest cut-off, which is perhaps not what one might have predicted. According to Wikipedia, in 2014 the student population was 67% black, 17% hispanic, 12% non-hispanic white and 4% "other".

    Replies: @International Jew

    Nope, that’s exactly what I would have expected!

  136. @Buck Turgidson
    I still say the solution is massive increases in public housing in wealthy blue enclaves. Let's get 10,000 residents in public housing in Boulder by the end of 2017. We got this! We can put a man on the moon, can't we? I know people in Boulder want to do more. That place is stale, and pale! How can such a progressive enlightened superior utopia be so monocultural? I think a goal of getting YT down to 25% is totally do-able. We can at least try!

    I have lefty relatives in coastal OC who told me "we need to do more" for minorities. Can we get 20,000 public housing units in Newport Beach by the end of the year? C'mon! What are we waiting for? More diversity, think of the jobs this would create, and the Newport Beachians could pitch in together in a big new social diversity project to help their new neighbors. Kumbaya!! I am trying to think of a downside here, this just screams "Win win."

    These places are so white bread and non diverse, how can they live with themselves. Same for Evanston. I've run my list of YT utopias here before.

    Replies: @Yak-15, @Sideways

    I agree. Let’s carpet bomb the blue enclaves with anyone who is a member of a third generation welfare family. Finally these poor wretches will get the help they need!!

  137. @res
    @Jack D

    I didn't know about the Hispanic program (thanks!): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Hispanic_Recognition_Program
    "PSAT score cut-offs vary each year by state, but typically range in the high 180s/low 190s."

    The Black program stopped (moved, I guess) in 2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Merit_Scholarship_Program#National_Achievement_Scholarship_Program


    With the conclusion of the 2015 program, the National Achievement Scholarship Program transitioned to the United Negro College Fund, which will use program funds to honor and award financial assistance to high-achieving, underrepresented college graduates through the newly-designed Achievement Capstone Program.
     
    The NASP cutoffs appear to be a closely guarded secret, but here are some discussions: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/1371874-what-is-the-minimum-psat-score-required-to-become-a-national-achievement-scholar.html
    http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/high-school-life/137428-national-achievement-cutoff.html
    I find it hard to believe the NASP cutoffs would be higher than for the NHRP.
    The UNCF CAP appears to make a relatively small number of awards (no idea about the cutoff): https://www.uncf.org/blog/entry/37-students-chosen-as-achievement-capstone-program-awardees

    Some discussion of NHRP vs. NMSF vs. NASP: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/1281794-nm-vs-national-hispanic.html

    For the rest of us, here are the cutoffs by state: https://prepexpert.com/national-merit-psat-cutoff-scores-class-2018/
    Utah is near the middle at 212 (PA is 217, odd that it's 5 points lower than MD next door, that probably helps CHS).
    Percentage by state (top 0.5%) approach described at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Merit_Scholarship_Program

    Semifinalists are designated on a state representational basis, contingent on the total number of entrants and in proportion to each state’s percentage of the nation’s high school graduating seniors.[6] Semifinalists are the highest-scoring program entrants in each state and represent the top 0.5% percent of the state’s senior students.
     

    I assume that the composition of the finalists is some kind of hate fact that must no longer be publicized.
     
    That would be my guess as well. It's amazing how many hate facts come up in any discussion about test scores by race. You'd almost think race was meaningful in this context or something.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Triumph104

    Did you notice the UNCF typos?

    This new award, a legacy of NMSC’s 50-year National Achievement® Scholarship Program, will rst recognize the outstanding academic accomplishments of its recipients at the cum laude level or above and it will provide them with nancial awards that support and encourage them in the careers on which they are about to embark. 

    The new award is only given to graduates of HBCUs and predominately black institutions. I suppose because most National Achievement recipients were attending predominately white colleges, but more importantly, this new award can be used to pay off student loans — of public colleges, graduates of HBCUS have the highest median debt.

    • Replies: @res
    @Triumph104

    No, I missed that. Thanks.

    It looks like the new award is very different from the old one. What you say makes sense. I did not know that about the HBCU graduates, but seems reasonable (fewer full freight paying students to allow offering scholarships to the rest?). Do you have any data on that over time?

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Ed

  138. @Jack D
    @CJ

    Mormons are puzzling - OTOH Pat Boonish "squares" - no alcohol, not even coffee, but OTOH having (in their past at least) their kinky polygamous system. It's hard to reconcile the two. Very rarely do fringe religions with strange sexual practices otherwise go for complete middle class respectability.

    Replies: @whorefinder, @Alec Leamas

    The blogger Agnostic has diagnosed Mormons as being descended from extremely gullible, extremely lost, socially-outcast folks in the past who were prime targets for cults, but whose cult happened to not be a doomsday cult, and whose premises (once polygamy was banned) improved the member’s way of life.

    The cult members, being dedicated lonely sorts, followed the Mormon leaders from town to town despite being driven out by pitchforks and guns at every turn. Then they got to their commune in the desert and instead of dying out due to lack of supplies they, contra to most of cult behavior through history, made it work.

    Their strange overwhelming desire to be seen as part of the American mainstream is likely due to three factors:

    1) the lack of Jewish influence in organizing them into a grievance-DNC group

    2) the fact that they are descended from social outcasts desperate to belong, and therefore have a gene for an ingratiating desire, like how the weirdest kid in class with a piercing FOMO follows every major trend closely and adopts it to an artificial extreme.

    3) the fact that the Mormon Church has been an outcast since it’s beginning, and thus its members have been consciously trying to change that via over-trying to integrate.

  139. @Triumph104
    @Ed

    I look at infant mortality data by state and race to find the states with dysfunctional whites. Contrary to popular opinion, a disparity in morbidity and mortality rates is not due to a lack of access to medical services but is instead caused by behavior.

    For whites in 2011-2013, the US average infant mortality rate was 5.1. For individual states, the range was 3.2 to 7.0.

    White Infant Mortality Rate --- US Average 5.1
    New Jersey 3.2
    Massachusetts 3.5
    Georgia 5.1
    Louisiana 6.2 (French Canadians)
    Maine 6.8
    West Virginia 7.0

    http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/infant-mortality-rate-by-race-ethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

    Replies: @anony-mouse

    Infant mortality rate-Quebec 4.9

    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/health21a-eng.htm

    Quebec is overwhelmingly White, and the Whites are overwhelmingly ‘French-Canadian’.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada

    • Replies: @Ed
    @anony-mouse

    Being the dominant majority in one political entity is a lot different than being a minority lower caste in another political entity.

    Genetics can't explain everything.

  140. @res
    @Jack D


    Maybe in the future they will have a National White Scholars program with lower cutoff so that they don’t have to compete with the Asians.
     
    You jest (maybe, who knows if the Asian population in the US keeps increasing), but if the groups were reversed you know we would already have a separate program.

    Regarding PA vs MD, MD is raised up by the DC suburbs which have some of the highest % of college grads in the US.
     
    Agreed. I ran into a surprising number of students from the DC suburbs when I went to (a very selective) college.

    In PA you have the Philadelphia area (most of the scholars are in the suburbs- the city is a black hole) and the Pittsburgh area and everywhere else is West Virginia.
     
    That makes sense. I bet the contrast between the scholarly group and the rest shows up starkly in all sorts of measures.

    Replies: @Triumph104

    Agreed. I ran into a surprising number of students from the DC suburbs when I went to (a very selective) college.

    I noticed that blacks and Hispanics in Montgomery County and Howard County, MD have AP pass rates that are 20-plus percentage points higher than the national average for each race. I couldn’t find data for Prince George’s County.

    http://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2015/15%2012%2010%20AP%20Exams%20Prin.memo.pdf
    http://www.hcpss.org/f/academics/2015-ap-exam-participation-performance-results.pdf

    • Replies: @res
    @Triumph104

    Those are some impressive stats. Did you take a look at individual schools (e.g. Table A2a/b on pp. 2/7 - 3/8)? Some even more impressive results for individual schools. Not surprising to see Walt Whitman near/at the top of that list.

    The MCPS doesn't mess around with either their teaching or their stats/analysis.

    Replies: @Triumph104

  141. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    A fundamental difference about Mormons is that while they ought to be part of the Coalition of the Fringes due to their weird religion, instead they try very hard to be seen as part of Core America due to their aggressive attempts to be normal Americans. It seems to work for them internally en masse, but during this era of Flight from White, it must be galling to some Mormon intellectuals than they can’t be personally profiting from waving the banner of diversity.

    Perhaps Evan McMullin foresees a future for himself as the Mormon who leads Mormons to their rightful place in the Coalition of the Fringes.

    Shhh. Please don’t give them any ideas. It’s nice having them as part of the core.

  142. @Jack D
    @CJ

    Mormons are puzzling - OTOH Pat Boonish "squares" - no alcohol, not even coffee, but OTOH having (in their past at least) their kinky polygamous system. It's hard to reconcile the two. Very rarely do fringe religions with strange sexual practices otherwise go for complete middle class respectability.

    Replies: @whorefinder, @Alec Leamas

    Polygamy isn’t all that strange – it was practiced in many cultures and at many times and survives in Islam, which is a fairly widespread religion. It’s probably not too difficult to recruit prominent men to a polygamous system – I think it’s the women (when they have some agency) that are the hard sell.

    • Replies: @Flip
    @Alec Leamas

    I think a lot of women would rather share an alpha than have to settle for a beta. Monogamy is how the majority beta males keep the alphas from taking all the women and is part of the reason for the rise of Europe versus other parts of the world as it gives most men a stake in society.

    , @Jack D
    @Alec Leamas

    Mormonism is supposed to be a Christian religion. Monogamy was something that the Christians picked up from the Romans who believed in it very strongly. It was such a taboo in Europe that the Jews were forced to adopt it (as the Mormons later were) despite it not being part of their religion originally. A polygamous Christian religion is VERY strange.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  143. @Anon
    '3 Wives, 1 Husband' was shown on TV here in England a few days ago. Based in Utah. So proud of thhr Mormons - must be the only Germanic group left with a very high birth rate (one man had 17 kids), uncucked, civilized. Kudos Mormons. Wish I could go there ti escape the PC hole Londonistan.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @Wilkey, @stillCARealist, @Anonymous

    Polygamy by Mormons in the U.S. was outlawed a long time.

  144. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Yak-15
    @TheJester

    I have a friend, no joke, who applied to several high-end law schools. He was rejected by every one except the one in which he listed his enthnicity as Latino. At that one he received a 100 pct scholarship (worth 150k) and a hand written letter begging him to come from the Dean.

    If that isn't privilege I do not know what is.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Triumph104

    “I have a friend, no joke, who applied to several high-end law schools. He was rejected by every one except the one in which he listed his enthnicity as Latino. At that one he received a 100 pct scholarship (worth 150k) and a hand written letter begging him to come from the Dean.

    “If that isn’t privilege I do not know what is.”

    Wow. I wonder, do these schools tell affirmative action admits that they have lower qualifications than all of the other students, or do they do almost the opposite and treat them like gold and as though they’re more special than everyone else?

    • Replies: @Yak-15
    @Anonymous

    "You have earned this honor and you deserve this award," is essentially the gist of what he showed me.

    This is worse than I ever imagined. This is grossly unfair and completely inane. Again, he only got into one school. And it was the "lie school."

  145. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    So, basically, the Mormons has created a separate system/society along the lines of what I've suggested whites in general do.

    The encouraging part is that it shows that it can be done. The discouraging part is that it also shows that whites likely need something beyond just the desire to preserve their people (in this case, religion) to create such a world.

    Then again, perhaps I'm being a tad harsh of my fellow whites. The vast, vast majority of whites either have no clue that we're in danger of losing our people or have been so indoctrinated into "diversity" that they simple believe this is normal. I suppose that the real test will happen when upper middle class whites - the ones who organize things and get shit done - can no longer insulate, insulate, insulate. At that point, the people with the capability to fight back will either choose to do so or sacrifice their children, assuming that they have any children.

    The examples of Texas and California suggest that whites will gently into that good night, but the Mormons show that their his hope.

    Replies: @Marty T

    It seems like North Carolina may have the least cucked whites in America. With all the demographic change in that state, Trump’s 4 point win is borderline remarkable. The conservatives in that state seem to be willing to fight and do what it takes. Well that is unless the NCAA objects…

  146. @benjaminl
    Something this piece briefly touches on, but is frequently ignored in the MSM, despite being hugely important, is how Earl Warren and his heirs laid the foundations for the dysfunction of the modern welfare state.

    Just one example: Welfare bureaucrats used to be able to make moral judgments about their cases. They could say no to scammers and shiftless layabouts. But now they can't, because Racism.

    My takeaway from this story: Big government could actually help foster social stability, if paired with lots of moralism and paternalism. Of course, when Steve said that about New Orleans and Katrina, it didn't go over so well...

    Meanwhile, a tweetstorm about Pence, Kant and Calvin

    https://twitter.com/DamonLinker/status/847829982676176896

    Replies: @Marty T, @The Last Real Calvinist

    Conservatives’ highest priority must be making it easier to remove judges, at all levels. They act like kings and have no accountability.

  147. @Yak-15
    @TheJester

    I have a friend, no joke, who applied to several high-end law schools. He was rejected by every one except the one in which he listed his enthnicity as Latino. At that one he received a 100 pct scholarship (worth 150k) and a hand written letter begging him to come from the Dean.

    If that isn't privilege I do not know what is.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Triumph104

    Last year an Italian kid got into all eight Ivy League colleges, Stanford, and UC Berkeley. I think he checked Hispanic. His twin brother got into Cornell early acceptance. LINK

    Chelsea Batista’s parents are from the Dominican Republic. She applied to 18 medical schools and was invited to interview at all 18. She only had time to interview at 16 and received 11 offers of admission. Two of the medical schools awarded her full tuition scholarships. LINK

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Triumph104

    This is really pretty depressing.

    Replies: @Yak-15

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Triumph104

    Not a peep in that second link about her academic qualifications, grades, class standing, MCAT scores, etc. As Sherlock Holmes noted an absence can be more of a clue than a preseence.

    Replies: @res, @Triumph104

  148. @Jack D
    @Buffalo Joe

    I never doubted this. As I'm sure you know, structural steel (in buildings, not highways) is supposed to be sprayed with a fireproof coating for just this reason. In the WTC the original coating was asbestos but when asbestos became a dirty word they removed that coating and resprayed it with less toxic materials. There is some question as to how good a job they did.

    The WTC was also very lightly built for a skyscraper. Their goal was to have big floors with column free space so the building was built with a structural inner core and an outer structural tube and in between they used very light zig-zag trusses like what you would see in the roof of a warehouse or retail store that has no drop ceiling.

    There was a 1920's skyscraper near the WTC that caught fire but did not collapse. Before they had computers they would engineer structures with large safety factors because they did not know exactly where the edge was and didn't want to skate anywhere near it. Also that building was so old that it didn't even have spray on fireproofing. As fireproofing, every column had been encased in terra cotta tiles on all sides and these stood the heat very well. (The amount of hand labor that went into these old structures was enormous - before they could cast I-beams as 1 piece they would build them up from boiler plate and angle iron with hundreds and hundreds of rivets, each one hand hammered).

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Achmed E. Newman

    What kind of cast I-beam are you writing about? All the ones I’ve seen are welded from 3 (or more) plates.

    Otherwise, interesting comment.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Achmed, The I beams and H beams, structural shapes, are formed by forcing a heated billet of steel through an extruder in a process called "Blooming". Almost all structural steel shapes, I beam, channel iron and angle iron is formed this way. Large girders and columns are sometimes made by welding plates or billets for the required size. Years ago most structural members were made, as Jack stated, by riveting plates and angle iron to make I or H beams.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  149. @Triumph104
    @Yak-15

    Last year an Italian kid got into all eight Ivy League colleges, Stanford, and UC Berkeley. I think he checked Hispanic. His twin brother got into Cornell early acceptance. LINK

    Chelsea Batista's parents are from the Dominican Republic. She applied to 18 medical schools and was invited to interview at all 18. She only had time to interview at 16 and received 11 offers of admission. Two of the medical schools awarded her full tuition scholarships. LINK

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Jus' Sayin'...

    This is really pretty depressing.

    • Replies: @Yak-15
    @Anonymous

    I am so depressed. It's befuddling beyond words. I cannot believe how far it has gone.

  150. @PV van der Byl
    @SFG

    True.

    For some reason, though, many people--especially those who've never spent much time in Manhattan--have a very difficult time reconciling two easily observable (e.g. to anyone in NYC) facts:

    1. Very few Jews are libertarians but
    2. Lots of libertarians are Jewish.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Sleestak

    That’d make the number of libertarians miniscule, right?

    I don’t know if it is.

    • Agree: PV van der Byl
    • Replies: @SFG
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Hardcore libertarians are few and far between.

    There are plenty of liberaltarians, conservatarians, moderate libertarians, and socially liberal Republicans, though.

  151. @TheJester
    Having worked with many Black professionals, I've noticed that the most aggrieved among them seem to believe that Whites are given the good things in life. Whites do not work for the good things in life ... the good things are gifted to them. White privilege of course. Therefore, equity requires that Blacks also be gifted the good things of life simply because they are Black. To deny them these gifts would be racist.

    As one of these professionals once explained to me in an office drawing, "Think of a pie. This is the White piece and this is the Black piece. I'm Black, so this is my piece ... end of discussion."

    I guess he never stretched his imagination to wonder who bought the ingredients and baked the pie in the first place. Nonetheless, justice demands, he says, that as a Black he should also be gifted the sweet things in life created by Western civilization ... which in his case might be a degree from an Ivy League university and a BMW.

    Over the years, I've often supposed the greatest gift I could give a Black person is to teach him how to think like a White person. Then, perhaps, he might recognize the hard work and commitment associated with White privilege.

    Replies: @Yak-15, @Pat Boyle, @Ed

    When I was young I worked for a government agency. There was a big Civil Service classification called Analyst. We had a black guy who was an Analyst. I’ll call him Leroy because his name was in fact Leroy.

    Leroy was not too bright. He couldn’t pass the civil service Analyst test. So he and a Mexican guy named Pete sued the county and were made analysts by fiat. Everyone liked Pete, who was always smiling and happy even though he was really deeply stupid. But Leroy had a depressive personality. He was always glum. He dressed well and was polite but he seldom left his cubicle and even more seldom did any work.

    He couldn’t do the work because he also was stupid. The civil service test was correct. These two should never have been hired. Leroy spent essentially every day sitting in his cubicle smoking (this was a while ago).

    You have to understand that I wasn’t an Analyst. I was hired to do statistical analyses and then I supervised the accounting section. Civil Service Analysts were not expected to be able to handle numbers in any form. I introduced microcomputers to my agency and the professional staff then could use the word processing software for their communications. But Leroy wouldn’t touch the computer. He wrote everything out in pencil and gave it to a clerk to type up. Everyone else adapted to personal computers except Leroy.

    Leroy was given almost no tasks. He couldn’t do anything and his boss realized that. So Leroy came to work every day and sat at his desk and smoked.

    Then one day a black federal bureaucrat came by and I overheard his conversation with Leroy. He was asked how things were in local government and Leroy said that everything was typical. There was a lot of racism and white people wouldn’t let him get ahead. I was stunned. Leroy thought that he was a victim. He was in fact a parasite who was only holding a job because he had got someone to play the system for him.

    But about a year later Leroy, who was a young man in what we all thought was good health, suddenly had a stroke and was paralyzed in one side of his body. I figured he was struck down by a massive case of cognitive dissonance. His ideas of self were so far from reality they damaged his brain.

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Pat Boyle


    But about a year later Leroy, who was a young man in what we all thought was good health, suddenly had a stroke and was paralyzed in one side of his body. I figured he was struck down by a massive case of cognitive dissonance.
     
    Or it was all the sitting and smoking.
  152. @George
    "Chetty hasn’t yet figured out how to adjust for cyclical ups and downs of different regions"

    If I understand things correctly Chetty compared the composition of the bottom 20% to the top 20% over time. Economic cycles are not the point. Something is keeping the children of the top 20% in the top 20% and the bottom 20% in the bottom 20%. That there were economic dislocations is the point. Those economic dislocations should have changed the distribution, but did not. Kind of like people are inheriting their social position from their parents. Almost like the children of West Point graduates go to West Point and mostly inherit their parents military rank.

    Bill Gates was the child of wealthy people. Steve Jobs is the only 'Horatio Alger' type story, any others? This may be recent. I vaguely remember ordinary sorts of US military types becoming important tech entrepreneurs. Ross Perot was known to hire them. Silicon Graphics was founded by someone who was 'discovered' by the Navy after passing a psychometric test.

    It could be genetics. It could also be parents passing their position to their children. For example the children of police becoming police. Children of dentists becoming dentists. BTW, why does it take more time and money to become a lawyer in the US than anywhere else?

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    This is the point of The Bell Curve.

    In an earlier time period, before widespread psychometric testing, there were lots of smart folks scattered around the country who were never “discovered” by anyone. Nowadays, much of the better genetic stock has been concentrated in certain “smart enclaves,” leaving the dummies to roam the heartland. (Yes, there are undiscovered geniuses in the flyover states, but not nearly as many as there used to be.)

    James H. Clark was born in Plainview, Texas, and if he’d been born in 1904 rather than 1944, he likely would have died there.

  153. @Kyle
    @Mr. Anon

    It must have been scoured off by shrapnel because the fire compromised the steel. Thats what must have happened. We're taking the conclusion and working back towards a hypothesis.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Mr. Anon

    That’s what’s got to be done, cause it’s not like you can model exactly where the jet fuel would end up during the impact, how much of it would burn, when it would start burning in order to get a 3-D representation of exactly what temperatures of what liquids, gases, and solids existed in space compared to the position of the building structural components. Oh, then the 4th axis would be time.

    It’s not something modelable (OK, that might not be a real word) without an assload of extremely expensive testing of aircraft integrity during impact (I mean down to the piece-parts, leading edges, fuel tanks and parts, all of it)). I think there is no other way to analyze something like that other than making hypotheses from what happened and trying to back calculate whether each was remotely possible.

    Show me a paper with results from a model of the two airplane impacts and resulting destruction, with bright colored moving 3-D grids, and I’ll tell you that is just as much garbage as the Global Climate Disruption(TM) folks will present. Some things can not be modeled without much more knowledge about each piece process, and usually the model fails anyway when well-known processes are put together.

  154. Ed says:
    @MW
    I'm surprised you didn't quote this damning section from the article:

    "This combination of financial help and the occasional verbal kick in the pants is something close to what the ideal of government help used to be. Social workers used to make individual judgments about what sort of help their clients needed or deserved. But such judgments always have an inherently subjective and arbitrary quality, which courts began to frown on in the middle of the 20th century, in part because they offered considerable discretion for racial discrimination."

    The casualties of the War for Racial Equality are mind-boggling. Utah remains an almost-painful example of What Could Have Been.

    Overall, great article by McArdle. She couldn't have written this if she were still at The Atlantic.

    Replies: @Ed

    Best column of the year.

    When the media interview the first public housing tenants in cities like NYC they’ll say the projects declined when they stopped doing home interviews.

    Funny thing is that mixed income lottery programs in NYC do home interviews for prospective low income tenants. I wonder why lol?

  155. Ed says:
    @TheJester
    Having worked with many Black professionals, I've noticed that the most aggrieved among them seem to believe that Whites are given the good things in life. Whites do not work for the good things in life ... the good things are gifted to them. White privilege of course. Therefore, equity requires that Blacks also be gifted the good things of life simply because they are Black. To deny them these gifts would be racist.

    As one of these professionals once explained to me in an office drawing, "Think of a pie. This is the White piece and this is the Black piece. I'm Black, so this is my piece ... end of discussion."

    I guess he never stretched his imagination to wonder who bought the ingredients and baked the pie in the first place. Nonetheless, justice demands, he says, that as a Black he should also be gifted the sweet things in life created by Western civilization ... which in his case might be a degree from an Ivy League university and a BMW.

    Over the years, I've often supposed the greatest gift I could give a Black person is to teach him how to think like a White person. Then, perhaps, he might recognize the hard work and commitment associated with White privilege.

    Replies: @Yak-15, @Pat Boyle, @Ed

    I’ve noticed this too and must admit I subscribed to it in my younger years (I’m black). It wasn’t until I got into corporate America that I understood that management isn’t easy.

    The problem is that whites make it all seem so easy in terms of management. Most blacks think they can do it too not realizing that every small detail matters. We tend to like the show of grandeur as opposed to the ugly details required for such appearances.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Ed

    Wow, congrats for coming here. This must be hard stuff to read, and you don't even have the 'safety in numbers' the Jewish commenters do.

    I do wonder if this particular difference has to do with culture rather than genetics. The disappearance of the old virtues of sobriety and hard work has hurt a lot of people.

    Replies: @Ed

  156. @Kyle
    @Mr. Anon

    It must have been scoured off by shrapnel because the fire compromised the steel. Thats what must have happened. We're taking the conclusion and working back towards a hypothesis.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Mr. Anon

    That’s a reasonable assumption, given that an airplane hit the building at about 500 mph. Of course, there are some people who deny that there even were airplanes that hit the building.

  157. @Pat Boyle
    @TheJester

    When I was young I worked for a government agency. There was a big Civil Service classification called Analyst. We had a black guy who was an Analyst. I'll call him Leroy because his name was in fact Leroy.

    Leroy was not too bright. He couldn't pass the civil service Analyst test. So he and a Mexican guy named Pete sued the county and were made analysts by fiat. Everyone liked Pete, who was always smiling and happy even though he was really deeply stupid. But Leroy had a depressive personality. He was always glum. He dressed well and was polite but he seldom left his cubicle and even more seldom did any work.

    He couldn't do the work because he also was stupid. The civil service test was correct. These two should never have been hired. Leroy spent essentially every day sitting in his cubicle smoking (this was a while ago).

    You have to understand that I wasn't an Analyst. I was hired to do statistical analyses and then I supervised the accounting section. Civil Service Analysts were not expected to be able to handle numbers in any form. I introduced microcomputers to my agency and the professional staff then could use the word processing software for their communications. But Leroy wouldn't touch the computer. He wrote everything out in pencil and gave it to a clerk to type up. Everyone else adapted to personal computers except Leroy.

    Leroy was given almost no tasks. He couldn't do anything and his boss realized that. So Leroy came to work every day and sat at his desk and smoked.

    Then one day a black federal bureaucrat came by and I overheard his conversation with Leroy. He was asked how things were in local government and Leroy said that everything was typical. There was a lot of racism and white people wouldn't let him get ahead. I was stunned. Leroy thought that he was a victim. He was in fact a parasite who was only holding a job because he had got someone to play the system for him.

    But about a year later Leroy, who was a young man in what we all thought was good health, suddenly had a stroke and was paralyzed in one side of his body. I figured he was struck down by a massive case of cognitive dissonance. His ideas of self were so far from reality they damaged his brain.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    But about a year later Leroy, who was a young man in what we all thought was good health, suddenly had a stroke and was paralyzed in one side of his body. I figured he was struck down by a massive case of cognitive dissonance.

    Or it was all the sitting and smoking.

  158. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    What kind of cast I-beam are you writing about? All the ones I've seen are welded from 3 (or more) plates.

    Otherwise, interesting comment.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Achmed, The I beams and H beams, structural shapes, are formed by forcing a heated billet of steel through an extruder in a process called “Blooming”. Almost all structural steel shapes, I beam, channel iron and angle iron is formed this way. Large girders and columns are sometimes made by welding plates or billets for the required size. Years ago most structural members were made, as Jack stated, by riveting plates and angle iron to make I or H beams.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Buffalo Joe

    Buffalo, I am talking about LARGE beams and columns in buildings and bridges, say 1 ft or greater depths. I've seen plenty of extrusions, mostly aluminum and smaller steel sized for angle, rectangular tube, anything you want (for aluminum). I am not a CE, but all the big stuff seems like it must be welded in a big steel fab. shop. If I'm wrong I'm glad to learn, but I guess this whole business has not much to do with Megan McCardle, come to think of it. ;-}

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Buffalo Joe

  159. @Kyle a
    @Buffalo Joe

    Not many Somalians for sure, but plenty of Samoans and Asian types from the real downtrodden areas. They've brought plenty of them back hardly any of which actuall stay in Utah.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Kyle a, didn’t know about the Somoans, but you could probably bring them all over to the States and few would notice. Unless you were using them for shade on a sunny day.

  160. @anony-mouse
    @Triumph104

    Infant mortality rate-Quebec 4.9

    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/health21a-eng.htm

    Quebec is overwhelmingly White, and the Whites are overwhelmingly 'French-Canadian'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada

    Replies: @Ed

    Being the dominant majority in one political entity is a lot different than being a minority lower caste in another political entity.

    Genetics can’t explain everything.

  161. @Jus' Sayin'...
    I still remember crossing into Utah, back in the 1980s when I took a cross country bus ride from Boston to San Francisco. In the hundreds of miles Before Utah there were nothing but ramshackle, sun-bleached fences and outbuildings in the midst of parched looking fields. Entering Utah, the vista changed to verdant grass and crops; well-kept, white-painted, plank fences; and houses, barns, and outbuildings that would have met zoning standards in all but the toniest neighborhoods. It was like a surreal transitions taken from the movie, "The Wizard of Oz".

    Replies: @stillCARealist

    Most of Utah is a big ol’ desert. Plenty of rocks, too. The Great Salt Lake? Tahoe it ain’t.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    @stillCARealist

    I'm aware of the overall geography. I'm just talking about the view from the window of a Greyhound bus traveling along interstate 80, exiting Wyoming and entering Utah. The contrast was so striking that I commented on it at the time to a neighbor on the bus and in several letters home. Clearly there was (and I assume still is) something very different in the cultures dominating Wyoming and Utah. Nothing natural could account for the sharply delineated and extreme contrast that I observed back then. OTOH there was no such transition leaving Utah for Nevada. It was desert all the way some time after leaving Salt Lake City.

    Replies: @Jack D

  162. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Numinous

    instead they try very hard to be seen as part of Core America due to their aggressive attempts to be normal Americans.
     
    Left unsaid here is the plain fact that Mormons can and do get accepted as mainstream Americans because they are white. And, to be honest, other non-European people who look white also get accepted as long as they want to be. (I read some articles last year about West Virginian supporters of Trump who were descendants of Arab Muslims from the Levant around the time of World War I.) For people who have no hope of passing for white, they have to be on tenterhooks every time tragedy strikes and America gets fearful. An Indian guy hangs out at a bar (like a typical American would) and gets shot to death because someone thinks he is an illegal Iranian Muslim. Is that his fault? Didn't he try to assimilate hard enough?

    Replies: @anon, @Autochthon

    Honestly, I don’t understand why he decided to hang out in a bar in a lowbrow area where patrons pack heat. If he had any sense, he would be aware such mistaken vigilante attacks have happened to other non-white looking people. The guy seemed like a pretty smart engineer at a aerospace company; how hard to figure out alcohol + firearms + politics is bad cocktail?

  163. correlation-causation,or…?

  164. @David
    @Almost Missouri

    At least one opinion piece published in the Western Standard in 1857 indicates that polygamy as practiced by Mormons was intentionally eugenic.


    Experience has long since taught mankind the necessity of observing certain natural laws in the propagation of animals, or the stock will degenerate and finally become extinct. But strange to say, in regard to the human animal, these laws, except in certain particulars, are more or less disregarded in these latter times...

    A well formed, healthy, vigorous race should be the end sought. …The ancient Spartans acted upon this policy, and the happy result was the production of a nation of the noblest men and women the world ever saw...

    Joseph Smith had penetration enough to know, that so long as the bodies of men are weak, degenerate, and tainted with impurities inherited from their fathers for a thousand generations, it is impossible to accomplish with them any great moral improvement, or indoctrinate them with many divine truths. Therefore, being divinely aided, he introduced a system……He taught that none but healthy men should marry–that a man should know his wife for the purpose of procreation and for that only–that he should keep himself apart from her during the carrying and nursing periods–that it is lawful and right, God commanding, for a man to have more than one wife...

    This theory is reduced to practice in Utah Territory; and it is remarked by immigrants passing through Salt Lake City, that the proportion of children is unusually great, and they are uncommonly robust and healthy. Who cannot see that the mental vigor of those children will be in proportion to their physical perfection?
     
    I lifed this from this blog: https://bycommonconsent.com/2006/08/02/eugenics/

    Replies: @Jack D, @stillCARealist, @Almost Missouri

    How many kids did Brigham Young have? 50 or so? I believe qb Steve Young is his great-grandson. Eugenics, and how.

  165. @George
    " we broke the country with diversity"

    When did this happen? If your end of the 1950s nostagic paradise was 1965 because of the immigration act, it was also the year of Rolling Thunder, the unlimited US commitment to losing wars and lost causes, in this case Vietnam. After Vietnam new losing wars and lost causes were found, and conviently the inevitable refugee flows from non European nations could be resettled.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rolling_Thunder

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @AnotherDad

    … and conviently the inevitable refugee flows from non European nations could be resettled.

    Yawn. This has essentially *nothing* to do with … anything.

    Refugee flows when there’s a war might be inevitable–at some level. But taking them into the West is not. To the extent we took people in that was a choice.

    However, this isn’t even the main problem–source of immigration and diversity–in the West. Not even in Europe, and much, much less in the US. Mexico was not the site of one of our big Cold War dust ups with the commies.

    And finally … Operation Rolling Thunder had nothing to do with the refugee flows. That was the code name of the bombing campaign against North Vietnam. We indeed bombed them a whole bunch. We bombed, they–as best they could–built stuff back. Repeat again and again. But they were not the refugees. The refugees were people from the South–a bunch of folks who had worked with the US (like the Hmong), a bunch of overseas Chinese types and a bunch of folks who didn’t like what communism had in store for them.

    Operation Rolling Thunder’s impact on our diversity … zero.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @AnotherDad

    I'm glad you wrote this. I couldn't get the energy up to write to this guy, but your comment covers it.

    I think Rolling Thunder is about 149 degrees of separation from Dieversity, even if put Kevin Bacon in the loop.

  166. @Alec Leamas
    @Jack D

    Polygamy isn't all that strange - it was practiced in many cultures and at many times and survives in Islam, which is a fairly widespread religion. It's probably not too difficult to recruit prominent men to a polygamous system - I think it's the women (when they have some agency) that are the hard sell.

    Replies: @Flip, @Jack D

    I think a lot of women would rather share an alpha than have to settle for a beta. Monogamy is how the majority beta males keep the alphas from taking all the women and is part of the reason for the rise of Europe versus other parts of the world as it gives most men a stake in society.

  167. @Anonymous
    @Yak-15

    "I have a friend, no joke, who applied to several high-end law schools. He was rejected by every one except the one in which he listed his enthnicity as Latino. At that one he received a 100 pct scholarship (worth 150k) and a hand written letter begging him to come from the Dean.

    "If that isn’t privilege I do not know what is."

    Wow. I wonder, do these schools tell affirmative action admits that they have lower qualifications than all of the other students, or do they do almost the opposite and treat them like gold and as though they're more special than everyone else?

    Replies: @Yak-15

    “You have earned this honor and you deserve this award,” is essentially the gist of what he showed me.

    This is worse than I ever imagined. This is grossly unfair and completely inane. Again, he only got into one school. And it was the “lie school.”

  168. @Anonymous
    @Triumph104

    This is really pretty depressing.

    Replies: @Yak-15

    I am so depressed. It’s befuddling beyond words. I cannot believe how far it has gone.

  169. res says:
    @Triumph104
    @res

    Did you notice the UNCF typos?


    This new award, a legacy of NMSC’s 50-year National Achievement® Scholarship Program, will rst recognize the outstanding academic accomplishments of its recipients at the cum laude level or above and it will provide them with nancial awards that support and encourage them in the careers on which they are about to embark. 
     
    The new award is only given to graduates of HBCUs and predominately black institutions. I suppose because most National Achievement recipients were attending predominately white colleges, but more importantly, this new award can be used to pay off student loans -- of public colleges, graduates of HBCUS have the highest median debt.

    Replies: @res

    No, I missed that. Thanks.

    It looks like the new award is very different from the old one. What you say makes sense. I did not know that about the HBCU graduates, but seems reasonable (fewer full freight paying students to allow offering scholarships to the rest?). Do you have any data on that over time?

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @res

    No, sorry I don't have anything.

    , @Ed
    @res

    When the Obama administration sought to institute a sort of consumer reports rating for colleges. The fiercest opponents were HBCUs. As Triumph pointed out its students graduate with lots of debt with poor outcomes. Morehouse, a private HBCU which counts MLK Jr as an alum, is a median offender for HBCUs, the Obama admin rated it similarly to for profit art schools.

    The SAT profile of its students is fairly middling which leads to many students not graduating or unable to command salaries sufficient enough to service their loans. This is a prime example of the black middle class exploiting poorer blacks for their own gain on the backs of poor blacks.

    https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2013/02/28/historically-black-colleges-and-universities-flunk-obamas-college-scorecard/

    Replies: @res, @Triumph104

  170. res says:
    @Triumph104
    @res


    Agreed. I ran into a surprising number of students from the DC suburbs when I went to (a very selective) college.
     
    I noticed that blacks and Hispanics in Montgomery County and Howard County, MD have AP pass rates that are 20-plus percentage points higher than the national average for each race. I couldn't find data for Prince George's County.

    http://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2015/15%2012%2010%20AP%20Exams%20Prin.memo.pdf
    http://www.hcpss.org/f/academics/2015-ap-exam-participation-performance-results.pdf

    Replies: @res

    Those are some impressive stats. Did you take a look at individual schools (e.g. Table A2a/b on pp. 2/7 – 3/8)? Some even more impressive results for individual schools. Not surprising to see Walt Whitman near/at the top of that list.

    The MCPS doesn’t mess around with either their teaching or their stats/analysis.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @res

    No, I didn't look at the individual high schools since I'm not familiar with any except Walt Whitman. I had been looking for national pass rates and stumbled upon data for those two school districts.

  171. @res
    @Triumph104

    No, I missed that. Thanks.

    It looks like the new award is very different from the old one. What you say makes sense. I did not know that about the HBCU graduates, but seems reasonable (fewer full freight paying students to allow offering scholarships to the rest?). Do you have any data on that over time?

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Ed

    No, sorry I don’t have anything.

  172. @res
    @Triumph104

    Those are some impressive stats. Did you take a look at individual schools (e.g. Table A2a/b on pp. 2/7 - 3/8)? Some even more impressive results for individual schools. Not surprising to see Walt Whitman near/at the top of that list.

    The MCPS doesn't mess around with either their teaching or their stats/analysis.

    Replies: @Triumph104

    No, I didn’t look at the individual high schools since I’m not familiar with any except Walt Whitman. I had been looking for national pass rates and stumbled upon data for those two school districts.

  173. @gregor
    @Hodag

    The religion has Protestant New England roots (both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young being from that region) but only a very small percentage of those that settled Utah were of literal Puritan stock.

    "As the Church spread through Europe, tens of thousands of new converts emigrated to America, leaving everything behind them for their faith and desire to be with fellow members. Of the 60,000 to 70,000 Saints who emigrated to the Salt Lake Valley in the late 1800s, more than 98 percent of the survivors were from Europe, and 75 percent were from Britain."

    https://history.lds.org/article/pioneer-story-the-convert-immigrants-?lang=eng

    So mostly Anglo with a good dose of Scandinavian, but most immigrated from Europe in the mid 19th century.

    Replies: @Hodag

    Ok, my thesis seems holed below the waterline.

    I am very surprised that Mormonism is mostly a European religion. Was the Illinois pograms more anti-foreign than anti-plural wife?

    This may be my trying to save my pet theory…But Mormon history is suspect. The church has gone out of their way to protect their narrative, ie the 80s bombings.

  174. @Buffalo Joe
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Achmed, The I beams and H beams, structural shapes, are formed by forcing a heated billet of steel through an extruder in a process called "Blooming". Almost all structural steel shapes, I beam, channel iron and angle iron is formed this way. Large girders and columns are sometimes made by welding plates or billets for the required size. Years ago most structural members were made, as Jack stated, by riveting plates and angle iron to make I or H beams.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Buffalo, I am talking about LARGE beams and columns in buildings and bridges, say 1 ft or greater depths. I’ve seen plenty of extrusions, mostly aluminum and smaller steel sized for angle, rectangular tube, anything you want (for aluminum). I am not a CE, but all the big stuff seems like it must be welded in a big steel fab. shop. If I’m wrong I’m glad to learn, but I guess this whole business has not much to do with Megan McCardle, come to think of it. ;-}

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Achmed E. Newman

    All the big I-beams I've ever seen (of the kind used for high-steel work) are extruded, as Buffalo Joe says. I can't imagine they would weld them - that would be incredibly labor intensive.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Achmed E. Newman

    They roll beams up to 60" and of course an I beam standing on end is a column. The big columns and girders are fabricated from plate and billet. I spend 25 years erecting steel and yes fabricating girders and built ups is labor intensive, but a lot of the welding is done with automatic welders. The largest girder I ever erected was 100 feet long by 16 feet deep and weighed 120 tons. There were six of them to hold the boiler in a power house. The big boilers actually hang down from the suspension girders so that the boiler can grow, expand, as it heats up.

  175. @AnotherDad
    @George


    ... and conviently the inevitable refugee flows from non European nations could be resettled.
     
    Yawn. This has essentially *nothing* to do with ... anything.

    Refugee flows when there's a war might be inevitable--at some level. But taking them into the West is not. To the extent we took people in that was a choice.

    However, this isn't even the main problem--source of immigration and diversity--in the West. Not even in Europe, and much, much less in the US. Mexico was not the site of one of our big Cold War dust ups with the commies.

    And finally ... Operation Rolling Thunder had nothing to do with the refugee flows. That was the code name of the bombing campaign against North Vietnam. We indeed bombed them a whole bunch. We bombed, they--as best they could--built stuff back. Repeat again and again. But they were not the refugees. The refugees were people from the South--a bunch of folks who had worked with the US (like the Hmong), a bunch of overseas Chinese types and a bunch of folks who didn't like what communism had in store for them.

    Operation Rolling Thunder's impact on our diversity ... zero.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    I’m glad you wrote this. I couldn’t get the energy up to write to this guy, but your comment covers it.

    I think Rolling Thunder is about 149 degrees of separation from Dieversity, even if put Kevin Bacon in the loop.

  176. @fitzGetty
    @whorefinder

    News just coming in ;
    Child sex ring arrested in Oxford, England.
    and :
    Child sex gang arrested in Banbury, Oxfordshire, England.

    Replies: @nglaer, @anon

    10,000s of children just in the UK

    same going on in Holland, France, Germany etc

    the media-political class doing everything they can to cover it up

    coming to the USA

  177. @Alec Leamas
    @Jack D

    Polygamy isn't all that strange - it was practiced in many cultures and at many times and survives in Islam, which is a fairly widespread religion. It's probably not too difficult to recruit prominent men to a polygamous system - I think it's the women (when they have some agency) that are the hard sell.

    Replies: @Flip, @Jack D

    Mormonism is supposed to be a Christian religion. Monogamy was something that the Christians picked up from the Romans who believed in it very strongly. It was such a taboo in Europe that the Jews were forced to adopt it (as the Mormons later were) despite it not being part of their religion originally. A polygamous Christian religion is VERY strange.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D

    Hadn't polygamy mostly been abandoned by the Jews already by the first century B.C.? I'm not really up on the history of the region, but such was my impression.

    Replies: @Jack D

  178. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Buffalo Joe

    Buffalo, I am talking about LARGE beams and columns in buildings and bridges, say 1 ft or greater depths. I've seen plenty of extrusions, mostly aluminum and smaller steel sized for angle, rectangular tube, anything you want (for aluminum). I am not a CE, but all the big stuff seems like it must be welded in a big steel fab. shop. If I'm wrong I'm glad to learn, but I guess this whole business has not much to do with Megan McCardle, come to think of it. ;-}

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Buffalo Joe

    All the big I-beams I’ve ever seen (of the kind used for high-steel work) are extruded, as Buffalo Joe says. I can’t imagine they would weld them – that would be incredibly labor intensive.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Mr. Anon

    Mr. Anon, see my response to Achmed about large steel girders and columns.

  179. Anonymous [AKA "SciVo"] says:

    “A fundamental difference about Mormons is that while they ought to be part of the Coalition of the Fringes due to their weird religion, instead they try very hard to be seen as part of Core America due to their aggressive attempts to be normal Americans.”

    They try, and they disbelieve their success. They reacted to Trump’s pro-American election campaign with delusional, paranoid derangement — as if they look at real Americans and see not-them.

    • Replies: @David Davenport
    @Anonymous

    They try, and they disbelieve their success. They reacted to Trump’s pro-American election campaign with delusional, paranoid derangement — as if they look at real Americans and see not-them.

    Huh? Trump won Utah in the Nov. 2016 election.

    , @SFG
    @Anonymous

    Trump won Utah.

    He didn't win Evan McMullin, but that's something else. A sizable fraction of evangelicals couldn't stomach Trump's lifestyle either, but nothing near a majority.

  180. @Jack D
    @Alec Leamas

    Mormonism is supposed to be a Christian religion. Monogamy was something that the Christians picked up from the Romans who believed in it very strongly. It was such a taboo in Europe that the Jews were forced to adopt it (as the Mormons later were) despite it not being part of their religion originally. A polygamous Christian religion is VERY strange.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Hadn’t polygamy mostly been abandoned by the Jews already by the first century B.C.? I’m not really up on the history of the region, but such was my impression.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Mr. Anon

    Apparently it was not all that common - after the era of biblical patriarchs and kings, none of the later prophets are mentioned as having multiple wives. But it was only banned for Ashkenazi Jews around 1,000 AD and never for Sephardic Jews, although it doesn't seem it was common either. But on paper it remained lawful.

  181. Most of the country thinks both the Upper West side AND Utah are weird, squared.

    People on alt right blogs and the upper middle class may be ok with Mormons but your average flyover country American from say Michigan or Tennessee really distrusts them, if they are even aware of their existence at all.

  182. @Boomstick
    OT:

    "Police arrests are plummeting across California, fueling alarm and questions"

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-police-slowdown-20170401-story.html

    In 2013, something changed on the streets of Los Angeles.

    Police officers began making fewer arrests. The following year, the Los Angeles Police Department’s arrest numbers dipped even lower and continued to fall, dropping by 25% from 2013 to 2015.

    The Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department and the San Diego Police Department also saw significant drops in arrests during that period.

    The statewide numbers are just as striking: Police recorded the lowest number of arrests in nearly 50 years, according to the California attorney general’s office, with about 1.1 million arrests in 2015 compared with 1.5 million in 2006.

    It is unclear why officers are making fewer arrests.
     
    2013 is when #BLM kicked off after the Trayvon Martin self-defense shooting.

    In Los Angeles, the drop in arrests comes amid a persistent increase in crime, which began in 2014. LAPD Chief Charlie Beck noted that arrests for the most serious crimes have risen along with the numbers of those offenses, while the decrease comes largely from narcotics arrests.

    The arrest data include both felonies and misdemeanors — crimes ranging from homicide to disorderly conduct. From 2010 to 2015, felony arrests made by Los Angeles police officers were down 29% and misdemeanor arrests were down 32%.

     

    Replies: @anon

    the police should have done this themselves years ago

    it would have been bad for a few years but if the outcome shut the lying media up permanently then it would have been better in the long run

  183. @candid_observer
    Has anybody ever done an IQ study of Mormons?

    I very much have the impression that they punch above their weight in a variety of areas of achievement, and God knows that they have pursued unusual marriage practices that might be significantly eugenic.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @syonredux, @anon, @black sea

    Has anybody ever done an IQ study of Mormons?

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Mormon average IQ isn’t that high.

    The advantage of an adaptive cultural blueprint is it makes people behave smarter than they are because smarter people wrote the blueprint.

  184. @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D

    Hadn't polygamy mostly been abandoned by the Jews already by the first century B.C.? I'm not really up on the history of the region, but such was my impression.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Apparently it was not all that common – after the era of biblical patriarchs and kings, none of the later prophets are mentioned as having multiple wives. But it was only banned for Ashkenazi Jews around 1,000 AD and never for Sephardic Jews, although it doesn’t seem it was common either. But on paper it remained lawful.

  185. @Ed
    @anony-mouse

    Good point & WV has the highest black % of the 3 states at a robust, 3.4%. So blacks aren't a factor. Maybe the American Nations theory is also a driver of this theory? Maine has a large French Canadian group that has historically struggled. WV is dominated by the quarrelsome Scot-Irish.

    Replies: @Jack D, @midtown, @Triumph104, @David Davenport

    Good point & WV has the highest black % of the 3 states at a robust, 3.4%. So blacks aren’t a factor.

    That’s is egregiously incorrect. That 3.4% is closer to the percentage of West Virginians who are black. West Virginia’s problem is that coal mining remains the biggest industry there. The white genealogy of West Va. is more similar to that western PA than to former Confederate states — more West Virginians with Slavic roots. Think Sen. Joe Manchin.

    North Carolina, on the other hand, is 20-25% black.

    Charlotte has a sizeable number of Jewish residents. Utah does not.

    The collapse of Wachovia Bank in Charlotte, N.C. is a large part of Charlotte’s post 2008 economic troubles. Charlotte and other parts of N.C. had a big real estate boom in the 2000’s. Utah, not as much. I suppose that houses then and now were affordable in Salt Lake City.

    Regarding “quarrelsome” Scot-Irish denizens of N.C.: North Carolina used to be as red or redder than its neighbor state Tennessee, using current political labels. No more. N.C. is now a “purple” toss-up state. Why? Too many more or less white peepul from the Northeast have emigrated to North Carolina. They haven’t improved the place. … Very unfortunate for N.C.

    • Replies: @Sideways
    @David Davenport

    Calling something you agree with "egregiously incorrect" is strange.

  186. @Anonymous
    "A fundamental difference about Mormons is that while they ought to be part of the Coalition of the Fringes due to their weird religion, instead they try very hard to be seen as part of Core America due to their aggressive attempts to be normal Americans."

    They try, and they disbelieve their success. They reacted to Trump's pro-American election campaign with delusional, paranoid derangement -- as if they look at real Americans and see not-them.

    Replies: @David Davenport, @SFG

    They try, and they disbelieve their success. They reacted to Trump’s pro-American election campaign with delusional, paranoid derangement — as if they look at real Americans and see not-them.

    Huh? Trump won Utah in the Nov. 2016 election.

  187. @Achmed E. Newman
    @PV van der Byl

    That'd make the number of libertarians miniscule, right?

    I don't know if it is.

    Replies: @SFG

    Hardcore libertarians are few and far between.

    There are plenty of liberaltarians, conservatarians, moderate libertarians, and socially liberal Republicans, though.

  188. @candid_observer
    Has anybody ever done an IQ study of Mormons?

    I very much have the impression that they punch above their weight in a variety of areas of achievement, and God knows that they have pursued unusual marriage practices that might be significantly eugenic.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Anon, @syonredux, @anon, @black sea

    Has anybody ever done an IQ study of Mormons?

    From Gene Expression:

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/mormons-are-average/#.WOCeaWfynIV

    • Replies: @res
    @black sea

    I was surprised by how high many of those IQ averages were. The Muslem SD was surprisingly low at 9.94 (is that a result of selective immigration from a low average area?).

    Razib draws a useful conclusion about Mormons (emphasis in original):


    I suspect with Mormons there is a much milder version of what has gone on with the Indian American community: strong selection biasing on migrants toward achievers.
     

    Replies: @Jack D

  189. @CJ
    @drahthaar


    Mormons always have been upright, living a bit distant from the gentiles, who often find their religion hocus-pocus. My father, born a gentile in Utah in 1914, noted and admired this benevolent, socially constructive attitude in spite of theology. You see it in Idaho too, e.g., Boise.

    Secularists, expressive individuals, and diversity worshippers are puzzled by Mormon social outcomes? The American middle used to be more upright / “straight” / “square.”
     
    Yes. I worked in Idaho for a few months in the 1990s, observed the same, and liked it. The local motto then was, "Idaho is what America used to be."

    Replies: @Jack D, @Autochthon

    I was in Boise last year reconnoitering for a refuge. The place is already infected: refugees and avid support for them everywhere: people protesting in favour of refugees at the statehouse, exhibits praising refugees and multikulturalism in the squares, museums, and universities. Mexicans and Guatamalans and Africans at the farmers’ market. Females walking around in their sacks. Apartment complexes and condominiums sprouting up like mushrooms as part of a ubiquitously growing, cancerous sprawl. Many of the naïve locals were enthusiastically reveling in how progressive they were and how much the area was booming.

    Fools, the lot of them.

    The fellow who drove my shuttle back to the airport from my hotel was a local, and I was the only passenger. Being sociable, he asked about my visit and what I’d thought. I replied candidly, and he commiserrated: he himself, a man about sixty who’d lived his whole life there and loved it, was only waiting for his dear mother to pass away so that he could flee. When I explained I’d been horrified and heartbroken and now had to seek other options (I’d been interviewing for an academic position) he sympathised.

    Sad. Very sad.

    • Replies: @res
    @Autochthon

    Where was he thinking of fleeing to?

    , @Flip
    @Autochthon

    That's too bad. Boise was on my potential retirement list some day. I am thinking Eugene, Oregon is a possibility. They're lefties but still relatively non-diverse and you have the benefits of a large university.

  190. @Intelligent Dasein
    Megan McArdle wrote:

    Bad news: The wide gulf between Utah and, say, North Carolina implies that we do, in fact, have a real problem on our hands. A child born in the bottom quintile of incomes in Charlotte has only a 4 percent chance of making it into the top quintile. A child in Salt Lake City, on the other hand, has more than a 10.8 percent chance — achingly close to the 11.7 percent found in Denmark and well on the way to the 20 percent chance you would expect in a perfectly just world.
     
    This statement is absurd. To summarize, McArdle apparently believes that in "a perfectly just world"---i.e. one that is perfectly free of impediments preventing each individual from rising or falling to the level of his natural ability, regardless of the social stratum in which he was born---a full fifth of those worthy to occupy the highest echelons of society would just happen to find themselves unhappily born into the lowest, with many of those hindered from assuming their rightful place by artificial social barriers correspondingly construed as "unjust." It is as if the stork simply sprinkles children of random abilities throughout the full breadth of the socioeconomic spectrum, and that there are no other factors---hereditary, cultural, or circumstantial as the case may be---acting to conserve class distinctions within relatively stable breeding populations.

    This idea, which is all the more forceful for being a completely unconscious and axiomatic assumption (such that it can be dropped into the conversation neither needing justification nor fearing criticism), is one of the chief errors underlying all modern political thought, which is always in its essence social thought; that is to say, thought directed towards the solving of "social problems" conceived mechanistically and therefore attacked with the mathematical techniques of probabilities and aggregates. It obviously forms a large part of the modern liberal brief with "racism," for the stork pays no heed to the color of the parents' skin when salting the earth with geniuses, or so they believe. So also does it animate the advocates of unrestricted immigration; the stork is a species of bird with a global distribution, and casts his gifts of love unreservedly into every land and clime. In its deeps the idea is Manichean, as it appears to entails the belief in a separated soul-substance that finds itself enchained within the demiurgic darkness of social conditions, but not hypostatically united to any particular being.

    It is only necessary to examine the facts in order to reveal that the idea has no foundation in actuality; and this can be done---and should be done---without resorting to the HBD-favored explanations of genetics and psychology, which are rightfully regarded as resting on rather shaky and involved hypotheses that could be invalidated to the detriment of the entire argument. The plainest refutation is to be found in the social facts themselves. To this end I propose the following items for consideration.

    1. The real world is not a meritocracy in any case. Here the concept of "social justice' itself deconstructs the twin assumptions that ability is evenly distributed and that equal abilities ought to lead to equal outcomes.



    2. While it is true that some born unto lowly estates do not ascend and do not deserve their lot, that is also true of many who do ascend, i.e. they do not deserve their newfound fortune. Likewise it is true of some well-born people who are ruined, that they did not deserve their misfortune. Social mobility is not only a two-way street between the high and the low, it is also a road traveled, in both directions, by both the worthy and the unworthy. This is especially true if income by quintile is made the only criterion of social position.

    3. While the circulation of elites is vital to the health of the state, so also by implication is the non-circulation of the non-elites. Individuals constantly enter and exit each social stratum not only through social mobility, but also by birth and death. But lest society deteriorate into a formless mass, it is necessary that these class designations continue to have a stable and identifiable meaning in spite of the train of individuals passing through. There is no compelling reason for an upper stratum to open its doors to any but the most qualified candidates from the lower strata, and sometimes not even then when its own issue, though perhaps not ideal, is still nonetheless adequate. Furthermore, it is entirely imprudent to foist upon lower members of society burdens heavier than they can bear and challenges other than those they can successfully meet.

    4. A great deal is already said about the benefits of social mobility, but much more ought to be said about the advantages conferred by aristocracy. It is not unthinkable---indeed it is entirely reasonable to believe---that the fact of growing up in the very atmosphere of wealth and power is often an important element in qualifying one to successfully manage it later on. In an analogous sense, the burdens and exigencies peculiar to a working-class existence behave the same way. Rich kids seldom make good bricklayers, but the yeoman's son knows every inch of the family farm intimately.

    5. Money, being a mobile and almost ephemeral form of property, is subject to volatile and often irrational ebbs and flows. Therefore, when monetary income is used as the sole measure of social status, it is bound to capture much that is transient, groundless, disruptive, and sometimes even destructive of the social order. The mere fact that, say, 10 percent of the first quintile made it to the fifth quintile over the course of their lives, can only be regarded as a meaningless datum in the absence of any information pertaining to how they got there or what else happened along the way.

    6. In today's advanced societies, wherein the ultra-rich are almost unimaginably wealthy and the top few hundred or few thousand individuals have a fortune equal to the bottom three quintiles put together, it is fully possible to redistribute income away from the ultra-rich in an amount they would not even miss, to selected members of the lower classes greatly to their benefit. The upper classes may even undertake this task of their own volition, and this they often do and have done with the beneficiaries selected not according to merit but rather to their own sentiment and caprice.

    Although statements like ones above could be multiplied quite extensively, these six are sufficient to prove the main point. What does social mobility tell us about the so-called justice of a society? In a word, nothing. A perfectly just society never has and never will exist on earth, but a tolerably contented society may have a great deal of social mobility or none, depending on other conditions. Social mobility is not invariably good, and sometimes it is decidedly bad. Even so, a perfectly just world would be a world where everybody received his due, where everybody was paid out according to what he contributed; and what a man is able to contribute as an individual is not independent of the time, place, and circumstances of his birth. The notion that 20 percent of the first quintile should progress to the fifth quintile over the course of their lives implies not perfect justice, but the perfectly random distribution of talents and opportunities. This is not the case.

    When a Whitetopia like Mormon Utah builds a private welfare state that benefits its lower social strata, this is not justice nor even charity. It is beautification, largess, condescension, and---let us put a fine point on it---the falsification of social facts. It involves paying some members of society more than they are due and is thus fundamentally unjust, although not necessarily imprudent. It is either prudent or imprudent as the case may be, given the shifting plate tectonics of various conflicting social forces; but it must involve the lower classes eventually paying off their advances or it is merely dissipative in the long run. It is never Pareto optimal.

    From a purely economic and physical point of view there is no difference in the programs underlying Whitetopia, the worse-run government welfare state, or all of Keynesian economics itself. The only differences are in the mechanisms of redistribution and the identities of beneficiaries and benefactors. If it is necessary for governments to practice largess from time to time---and I maintain that it is---then it is necessary for states to be "unjust." To the extent they are unjust, they must be preferential. To the extent they are preferential, they must be tribal. Therefore all governments that redistribute wealth are ipso facto nationalist governments. The only question is whether or not our nominal national government is actually benefiting us.

    It is clear that the US government is no longer benefiting White Americans. The question is can it be brought to do so, and how?

    Replies: @Autochthon, @ben tillman

    I enjoy your work very much; you are a sound thinker and writer.

    I was about to select Agree until I reaached “When a Whiteopia…” for reasons identified in your penultimate paragraph:

    The only differences are in the mechanisms of redistribution and the identities of beneficiaries and benefactors.

    This facet is what justifies and salvages the entire affair, just as it ia justified foe a man to benefit his children. Always remember a race, and a fortiori and ethny, nation, village – if it be healthily homogenous – is a large, extended family. The Mormons are hardly ensconcing hewers of wood and drawers of water into the boardrooms of their corporations; they are merely looking after their own according to thoughtful stewardship, just as a wise and living father may entrust one son with different responsibilities than another. My (half) brothers dropped out of high school and became tradesmen, and I obtained two graduate degrees: until his untimely death, our father (mine by adoption and his own lovingkindness) treated us all with equal affection, but with guidance, support, and expectations commensurate to our abilities. A well ordered society does the same with its citizens, and from all my experiences of Mormons (not immersive, but substantial) they do so.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @Autochthon

    Thank you for reading my work and for your warm compliments, but with all due respect I think you've missed my point entirely. What I was saying (the short version) is that all forms of redistribution are technically unjust but sometimes necessary, i.e. strict justice is not the only social good which must be pursued and is sometimes in conflict with other social goods. Although I did not say so in the post, this statement is directed mainly against the libertarians and "social conservatives." I will take their point that redistribution destroys Pareto optimality (it's true; it does). But if a certain amount of redistribution is necessary to ensure overall social stability, then it follows in the nature of the case that somebody is receiving more than their fair share. The important question then becomes, "Is this largess benefiting my own people or somebody else?"

    In America today, it is uncontroversial that the largess is being taken from White people and used to benefit immigrants and dindus, and the ordinary White citizen has no say in the matter. The "White Nation" is under assault. They have been taught that they must regard these others as part of their own people---because racism, because we are a propositional nation, etc. This is the great cucking of the American middle. This cannot be allowed to continue. But, over the last 30 years or so, to the extent that this situation has been opposed at all, it has been opposed with "social conservatism," i.e. fulminations against welfare itself and paeans to individual responsibility. All of this rings rather hollow. In the real world, states never behave like libertarian fantasy camps but more like syndicalist cartels. All people, including White people, need a certain amount of gibs to cement the social compact. When the gibs that are supposed to go to your group are instead taken from you and given to outsiders, that is the last step towards the intolerable.

    It is mightily hard to articulate a defense of why this wrong in strict legal-ethical terminology. You cannot defend your right to gibs on the grounds of fairness, because there was always something slightly unfair about the situation to begin with. The outsider groups can convincingly point to your advantages and complain about "privilege" and exclusion. The moralists and weak-blooded ideologues will sing hymns to the universal brotherhood of man and eagerly embrace their cucking. And the jackals (e.g. the Clintons) will capitalize on all the discontent and sell out their country for an ace of trumps.

    The only solution is separatism and a new nationalism. Only the emergence of a new cartel that benefits our own people can renew the social compact.

    In other words, White Nationalism is the only hope for Whites.

  191. @Numinous

    instead they try very hard to be seen as part of Core America due to their aggressive attempts to be normal Americans.
     
    Left unsaid here is the plain fact that Mormons can and do get accepted as mainstream Americans because they are white. And, to be honest, other non-European people who look white also get accepted as long as they want to be. (I read some articles last year about West Virginian supporters of Trump who were descendants of Arab Muslims from the Levant around the time of World War I.) For people who have no hope of passing for white, they have to be on tenterhooks every time tragedy strikes and America gets fearful. An Indian guy hangs out at a bar (like a typical American would) and gets shot to death because someone thinks he is an illegal Iranian Muslim. Is that his fault? Didn't he try to assimilate hard enough?

    Replies: @anon, @Autochthon

    It’s absolutely his fault in so far as he ought not to have invaded the U.S.A. in the first place; as he did, at the very least he assumed the risk. Americans minding their own business are similarly raped. robbed, kidnapped, and murdered in places like India all the time.

    This is all what separate countries are for.

    • Replies: @Numinous
    @Autochthon

    You are a poster child for gun control laws. And lunatic asylums.

    Replies: @anon, @Autochthon

  192. @benjaminl
    Something this piece briefly touches on, but is frequently ignored in the MSM, despite being hugely important, is how Earl Warren and his heirs laid the foundations for the dysfunction of the modern welfare state.

    Just one example: Welfare bureaucrats used to be able to make moral judgments about their cases. They could say no to scammers and shiftless layabouts. But now they can't, because Racism.

    My takeaway from this story: Big government could actually help foster social stability, if paired with lots of moralism and paternalism. Of course, when Steve said that about New Orleans and Katrina, it didn't go over so well...

    Meanwhile, a tweetstorm about Pence, Kant and Calvin

    https://twitter.com/DamonLinker/status/847829982676176896

    Replies: @Marty T, @The Last Real Calvinist

    Just one example: Welfare bureaucrats used to be able to make moral judgments about their cases. They could say no to scammers and shiftless layabouts. But now they can’t, because Racism.

    Marvin Olasky’s book The Tragedy of American Compassion is an excellent analsyis of exactly this phenomenon. He shows how a web of mostly Christian social service organizations did a pretty good job of providing ‘welfare’, broadly defined, for decades, roughly from the latter years of the 19th century up till about the 1930s.

    The key to these organizations’ success in both relieving the needy’s immediate crises and rehabilitating them/giving the a real head start was judgement. In simple terms, they drew distinctions between the deserving and undeserving poor.

    ‘Judging people’ is now, of course, anathema.

  193. @Steve Sailer
    @Karl

    A total slum:

    http://wikitravel.org/upload/shared//thumb/a/a6/Manhattan_upperwestside_building.jpg/300px-Manhattan_upperwestside_building.jpg

    Replies: @Karl

    3 isteve > {some skyscraper}

    nice collection of picture-postcards you got there, sonny-boy.

    i’ll tell all the Dominican ladies at Broadway and 127th Street that you’re jealous of their non-rent-controlled apartments.

  194. @Yak-15
    @Karl

    The Bronx has nice parts. Lots of natural features and topography. It's the population in most areas of the Bronx that makes it slummy. Check it out some time. (Driving, during the day)

    Replies: @Daniel H, @Karl

    83 Yak-15 > The Bronx has nice parts

    so does Karachi.

    I guess if you attended the Fieldston Ethical Culture School as a kid, you would say that the Bronx has nice parts. I mean, ok…. it’s no Mogadishu.

    Although: checking just now, the website of the SUNY Maritime College lists their address as “Throggs Neck, NY”

    Not “Bronx NY”

    iSteve ought to be able to go to town with that one…..

  195. @Autochthon
    @Numinous

    It's absolutely his fault in so far as he ought not to have invaded the U.S.A. in the first place; as he did, at the very least he assumed the risk. Americans minding their own business are similarly raped. robbed, kidnapped, and murdered in places like India all the time.

    This is all what separate countries are for.

    Replies: @Numinous

    You are a poster child for gun control laws. And lunatic asylums.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Numinous

    Plenty of white settlers were attacked and killed when they tried to settle into Indian lands. So, this conflict is nothing new and has been going on for five centuries. That white loser who killed is not anymore exempt from the normal human emotions of envy and jealousy that the Indians felt towards the white settlers of the past. If you read this site regularly, you can sense a lot of envy and jealousy we feel towards the foreigners. It is just that we are not all violent. This was all predicted by Enoch Powell in U.K. over half century ago when the Commonwealth citizens started settling in Britain.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_of_Blood_speech

    , @Autochthon
    @Numinous

    Well, with irrefutable and substantive arguments like that one you put both Webster and Calhoun to shame.

    A lesser man might have made a dismissive, ad hominem attack with no merit.

  196. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Buffalo Joe

    Buffalo, I am talking about LARGE beams and columns in buildings and bridges, say 1 ft or greater depths. I've seen plenty of extrusions, mostly aluminum and smaller steel sized for angle, rectangular tube, anything you want (for aluminum). I am not a CE, but all the big stuff seems like it must be welded in a big steel fab. shop. If I'm wrong I'm glad to learn, but I guess this whole business has not much to do with Megan McCardle, come to think of it. ;-}

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Buffalo Joe

    They roll beams up to 60″ and of course an I beam standing on end is a column. The big columns and girders are fabricated from plate and billet. I spend 25 years erecting steel and yes fabricating girders and built ups is labor intensive, but a lot of the welding is done with automatic welders. The largest girder I ever erected was 100 feet long by 16 feet deep and weighed 120 tons. There were six of them to hold the boiler in a power house. The big boilers actually hang down from the suspension girders so that the boiler can grow, expand, as it heats up.

  197. @Mr. Anon
    @Achmed E. Newman

    All the big I-beams I've ever seen (of the kind used for high-steel work) are extruded, as Buffalo Joe says. I can't imagine they would weld them - that would be incredibly labor intensive.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Mr. Anon, see my response to Achmed about large steel girders and columns.

  198. SFG says:
    @Ed
    @TheJester

    I've noticed this too and must admit I subscribed to it in my younger years (I'm black). It wasn't until I got into corporate America that I understood that management isn't easy.

    The problem is that whites make it all seem so easy in terms of management. Most blacks think they can do it too not realizing that every small detail matters. We tend to like the show of grandeur as opposed to the ugly details required for such appearances.

    Replies: @SFG

    Wow, congrats for coming here. This must be hard stuff to read, and you don’t even have the ‘safety in numbers’ the Jewish commenters do.

    I do wonder if this particular difference has to do with culture rather than genetics. The disappearance of the old virtues of sobriety and hard work has hurt a lot of people.

    • Replies: @Ed
    @SFG

    I find that most of commentators here are reasonable, to be honest.

  199. @Anonymous
    "A fundamental difference about Mormons is that while they ought to be part of the Coalition of the Fringes due to their weird religion, instead they try very hard to be seen as part of Core America due to their aggressive attempts to be normal Americans."

    They try, and they disbelieve their success. They reacted to Trump's pro-American election campaign with delusional, paranoid derangement -- as if they look at real Americans and see not-them.

    Replies: @David Davenport, @SFG

    Trump won Utah.

    He didn’t win Evan McMullin, but that’s something else. A sizable fraction of evangelicals couldn’t stomach Trump’s lifestyle either, but nothing near a majority.

  200. @Autochthon
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I enjoy your work very much; you are a sound thinker and writer.

    I was about to select Agree until I reaached "When a Whiteopia..." for reasons identified in your penultimate paragraph:


    The only differences are in the mechanisms of redistribution and the identities of beneficiaries and benefactors.
     
    This facet is what justifies and salvages the entire affair, just as it ia justified foe a man to benefit his children. Always remember a race, and a fortiori and ethny, nation, village – if it be healthily homogenous – is a large, extended family. The Mormons are hardly ensconcing hewers of wood and drawers of water into the boardrooms of their corporations; they are merely looking after their own according to thoughtful stewardship, just as a wise and living father may entrust one son with different responsibilities than another. My (half) brothers dropped out of high school and became tradesmen, and I obtained two graduate degrees: until his untimely death, our father (mine by adoption and his own lovingkindness) treated us all with equal affection, but with guidance, support, and expectations commensurate to our abilities. A well ordered society does the same with its citizens, and from all my experiences of Mormons (not immersive, but substantial) they do so.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    Thank you for reading my work and for your warm compliments, but with all due respect I think you’ve missed my point entirely. What I was saying (the short version) is that all forms of redistribution are technically unjust but sometimes necessary, i.e. strict justice is not the only social good which must be pursued and is sometimes in conflict with other social goods. Although I did not say so in the post, this statement is directed mainly against the libertarians and “social conservatives.” I will take their point that redistribution destroys Pareto optimality (it’s true; it does). But if a certain amount of redistribution is necessary to ensure overall social stability, then it follows in the nature of the case that somebody is receiving more than their fair share. The important question then becomes, “Is this largess benefiting my own people or somebody else?”

    In America today, it is uncontroversial that the largess is being taken from White people and used to benefit immigrants and dindus, and the ordinary White citizen has no say in the matter. The “White Nation” is under assault. They have been taught that they must regard these others as part of their own people—because racism, because we are a propositional nation, etc. This is the great cucking of the American middle. This cannot be allowed to continue. But, over the last 30 years or so, to the extent that this situation has been opposed at all, it has been opposed with “social conservatism,” i.e. fulminations against welfare itself and paeans to individual responsibility. All of this rings rather hollow. In the real world, states never behave like libertarian fantasy camps but more like syndicalist cartels. All people, including White people, need a certain amount of gibs to cement the social compact. When the gibs that are supposed to go to your group are instead taken from you and given to outsiders, that is the last step towards the intolerable.

    It is mightily hard to articulate a defense of why this wrong in strict legal-ethical terminology. You cannot defend your right to gibs on the grounds of fairness, because there was always something slightly unfair about the situation to begin with. The outsider groups can convincingly point to your advantages and complain about “privilege” and exclusion. The moralists and weak-blooded ideologues will sing hymns to the universal brotherhood of man and eagerly embrace their cucking. And the jackals (e.g. the Clintons) will capitalize on all the discontent and sell out their country for an ace of trumps.

    The only solution is separatism and a new nationalism. Only the emergence of a new cartel that benefits our own people can renew the social compact.

    In other words, White Nationalism is the only hope for Whites.

  201. @Buck Turgidson
    I still say the solution is massive increases in public housing in wealthy blue enclaves. Let's get 10,000 residents in public housing in Boulder by the end of 2017. We got this! We can put a man on the moon, can't we? I know people in Boulder want to do more. That place is stale, and pale! How can such a progressive enlightened superior utopia be so monocultural? I think a goal of getting YT down to 25% is totally do-able. We can at least try!

    I have lefty relatives in coastal OC who told me "we need to do more" for minorities. Can we get 20,000 public housing units in Newport Beach by the end of the year? C'mon! What are we waiting for? More diversity, think of the jobs this would create, and the Newport Beachians could pitch in together in a big new social diversity project to help their new neighbors. Kumbaya!! I am trying to think of a downside here, this just screams "Win win."

    These places are so white bread and non diverse, how can they live with themselves. Same for Evanston. I've run my list of YT utopias here before.

    Replies: @Yak-15, @Sideways

    Evanston non-diverse? It’s barely half white, and contains a substantial amount of blacks, hispanics, and asians.

  202. @Seamus Padraig
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    The Mormons banned polygamy more than a century ago. Only the tiny outlaw sects still practice it.

    Replies: @Sideways

    He was responding directly to someone claiming that Mormon polygamy was a good thing

  203. @Jack D
    @candid_observer

    If anything, they punch below their weight for a mostly white state.

    They only practiced polygamy on a large scale basis for a few decades so I don't think there was enough time for it to be eugenic. Also it's not clear to me that polygamy is really eugenic for intelligence based on societies where it is widespread. Nerdy smart guys don't tend to end up with a lot of wives. One of the secrets of Ashkenazi Jewish eugenics is that it was one of the few cultures to make nerdiness sexy - the most prestigious spouse for a rich girl was someone who was a great (Torah) scholar. Likewise in China a Confucian scholar who could pass the civil service test was a desirable mate.

    The guys who end up with big harems in polygamous societies tend to be macho charismatic guys who are not dumb but are not that into scholarship either. If Trump had been a Mormon back in the day he was the kind of guy who would have had a lot of wives. Such guys also don't seem to be interested in selecting their wives based on intelligence either, so the whole scheme doesn't seem to be a plan for breeding really smart kids.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Johann Ricke, @AnotherDad

    Jack, your points on Jewish and Chinese eugenics seem spot on.

    But I don’t think you’re on target with the Mormons. The polygamy thing was a passing fancy and probably had very little genetic impact.

    The Mormon selection would have been for smart, conscientious hard workers who could cooperate in the system. It’s pretty much the sort selection that’s been going on in white gentiles for a few thousand years–outlined by Greg Clark in Farewell to Alms–and accounts for why white gentiles have produced the best nations in the world.

    They have their own community, and hence aren’t pushing their kids into the coastal elites, so you probably haven’t encountered many and think they aren’t punching their weight. But where they are, they are usually plenty who are on the ball, movers and shakers. They aren’t going to be like Jews or Chinese, but they are very solid typical white gentiles. They aren’t punching below their weight.

    The Mormons are also likely in much better eugenic shape going forward than most white people. For example, while Jews while selected for smarts–especially verbally skilled–this has also tossed off a lot of Jewish gals who are smart–IQ wise at least–but talky, bitchy. Some of the whiners in chief of the last 50. These are gals who think they are heroes of Soviet motherhood–Jewish division–if they have a 2nd kid. (Maybe if they have any kid!) In contrast the Mormon girls, if they stick with the program, know they will have at least three if physically capable. So smart Mormon girls aren’t marrying smart Mormon men and then destroying their genes.

    The open questions about their eugenics:
    –> More gals than guys stick with the program. Should mean that high quality guys tend to find terrific wives who are attractive and smart and great moms who’ll willingly produce babies and keep smart genes propagating. But it could mean it’s too easy for dullard guys to reproduce who are supposed to be selected out in the natural order.
    –> Are they boiling off too many of the smartest folks. Obviously the boiling off will tend to whack the loose canons and uncooperative. But it might also now be boiling off too many smart guys who just think the program is too stupid and constraining. Mormons might find themselves getting Amishized.

    Of course the *big* problem for the Mormons is the same one for all white gentile groups–insufficient racial consciousness. The Mormons are out “saving” everyone all over the planet, and the Church is just fine with these Mexicans streaming into Utah … they are smothered with Mormon love and ergo will inevitably become part of the Mormon gene pool.

    Mormons would be much better off with less soul saving and more explicit ethnic group identity–a particular people with a particular story, more like the Jews. Of course, they used to have a more explicit racial identity. But the Jews running our culture decided that was illegitimate, and the Mormons buckled years ago. Only Jews are allowed to have an explicit racial identity. Anyone else wanting to maintain their group’s racial identity is a racist!

    • Replies: @CommanderFun
    @AnotherDad

    I agree with this assessment.

    What's interesting to me is that The Book of Mormon is the single most nationalistic document I've ever read.

    If anyone's not read it, I encourage you to.

    The short story:

    Two families are led from Jerusalem about 600 BC. After arriving in the Promised Land (America) the family splinters into two group - Nephites (the righteous) and the Lamanites (the wicked).

    After the family split, God specifically commanded the Nephites not to marry the Lamanites, les they "dwindle in unbelief." So serious was this commandment that God cursed the Lamanites with a skin of darkness (plenty of arguments in Mormon circles about whether this is literal or metaphorical). If any Nephite married a Lamanite, the children adopted the curse. This wasn't a racial separation, but a cultural/religious one.

    Over the next 1,000 years, these two groups are at constant war with each other. The Nephites continually engage in self-defensive measures to protect their God-given lands from the Lamanites. Keeping the culture "pure," for lack of a better word, was paramount. The laws were strict and the death penalty was regularly enforced (they lived under the Law of Moses at the time). During the entire saga, the only group ever allowed in their territory was a group of Lamanites who were converted to the Lord (the Ammonites).

    Moroni, a great military leader and prophet, charged his people with walling up and fortifying ever single city in their land to protect them from Lamanite invasion. At one point Moroni writes on a piece of his coat, "In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children." He fastened the coat to a pole and hoisted it up, calling it "The Title of Liberty." He then caused that standard hoisted up in every Nephite city. It's great stuff.

    In the end, however, the Nephite people rebelled against God, lost God's protection, lost their racial and spiritual identity as as covenant people and were completely destroyed.

    A timely lesson, methinks.

  204. @SFG
    @anonymous

    Lots of libertarians were Jewish. Read Murray Rothbard's Sociology of the Ayn Rand Cult--it's really quite funny.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/murray-n-rothbard/understanding-ayn-randianism/

    Replies: @PV van der Byl, @anonymous, @jack ryan

    Yes indeed. Including Milton Friedman.

  205. Ed says:
    @res
    @Triumph104

    No, I missed that. Thanks.

    It looks like the new award is very different from the old one. What you say makes sense. I did not know that about the HBCU graduates, but seems reasonable (fewer full freight paying students to allow offering scholarships to the rest?). Do you have any data on that over time?

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Ed

    When the Obama administration sought to institute a sort of consumer reports rating for colleges. The fiercest opponents were HBCUs. As Triumph pointed out its students graduate with lots of debt with poor outcomes. Morehouse, a private HBCU which counts MLK Jr as an alum, is a median offender for HBCUs, the Obama admin rated it similarly to for profit art schools.

    The SAT profile of its students is fairly middling which leads to many students not graduating or unable to command salaries sufficient enough to service their loans. This is a prime example of the black middle class exploiting poorer blacks for their own gain on the backs of poor blacks.

    https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2013/02/28/historically-black-colleges-and-universities-flunk-obamas-college-scorecard/

    • Replies: @res
    @Ed

    I had always understood the HBCUs to be a good alternative. Thanks to you and Triumph104 for raising some of the issues so I could see. I thought this quote from your link was interesting:


    Hess says the reason for such poor scores could be many HBCU students often come from low-income backgrounds and are first-generation college attendees. But because “nobody looks,” he said, there is too little research on the topic to know for sure.
     
    From your comment:

    This is a prime example of the black middle class exploiting poorer blacks for their own gain on the backs of poor blacks.
     
    This issue came up in a discussion about problems in DC hospitals as well. Any thoughts on what could be done about this? Is it just a matter of being realistic about what kind of abilities/test scores are needed for college success?

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Triumph104
    @Ed

    Last year, Bethune-Cookman, an HBCU in Daytona Beach, FL, partnered with the for-profit Arizona Summit Law School to "address the lack of diversity in the legal profession". B-C will be steering students to a law school that was placed on probation by the ABA last week because among many reasons, the July 2016 pass rate for the bar exam by first-time takers was 25%.

    Supposedly Arizona Summit Law School will award full scholarships, but usually with law schools the funds are contingent on maintaining a 3.0 GPA or higher, which I don't think is possible for most B-C grads since 50 percent of the student body scored between 350 and 450 on each section of the SAT.

    I would imagine that HBCUs exploiting their own students, overwhelmingly poor and underachieving, is why Malia Obama didn't visit even one on her college search.

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-education/2017/03/27/arizona-summit-law-school-probation-low-bar-passage-rates/99698686/

    Replies: @Jack D, @Ed

  206. @SFG
    @Ed

    Wow, congrats for coming here. This must be hard stuff to read, and you don't even have the 'safety in numbers' the Jewish commenters do.

    I do wonder if this particular difference has to do with culture rather than genetics. The disappearance of the old virtues of sobriety and hard work has hurt a lot of people.

    Replies: @Ed

    I find that most of commentators here are reasonable, to be honest.

  207. @PV van der Byl
    @SFG

    True.

    For some reason, though, many people--especially those who've never spent much time in Manhattan--have a very difficult time reconciling two easily observable (e.g. to anyone in NYC) facts:

    1. Very few Jews are libertarians but
    2. Lots of libertarians are Jewish.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Sleestak

    I would assume that the best arrangement for Jews would be a powerful government controlled by Jews or friends of Jews, but if that’s not achievable the second best option would be a government too weak to harm Jews.

    Expect Jewish support for libertarianism to increase significantly the next 4 years.

  208. @stillCARealist
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Most of Utah is a big ol' desert. Plenty of rocks, too. The Great Salt Lake? Tahoe it ain't.

    Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...

    I’m aware of the overall geography. I’m just talking about the view from the window of a Greyhound bus traveling along interstate 80, exiting Wyoming and entering Utah. The contrast was so striking that I commented on it at the time to a neighbor on the bus and in several letters home. Clearly there was (and I assume still is) something very different in the cultures dominating Wyoming and Utah. Nothing natural could account for the sharply delineated and extreme contrast that I observed back then. OTOH there was no such transition leaving Utah for Nevada. It was desert all the way some time after leaving Salt Lake City.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    In my (one) drive cross country, this really struck me. On the map, the Western states are mostly just big boxes with no natural boundaries so you would think that they would be indistinguishable from each other, but in fact each state has its own character that makes it distinct and you can sort of see what led them to draw the boundaries - plain vs mountain, prairie vs forest, grazing land vs. farmland, etc.

  209. @Triumph104
    @Yak-15

    Last year an Italian kid got into all eight Ivy League colleges, Stanford, and UC Berkeley. I think he checked Hispanic. His twin brother got into Cornell early acceptance. LINK

    Chelsea Batista's parents are from the Dominican Republic. She applied to 18 medical schools and was invited to interview at all 18. She only had time to interview at 16 and received 11 offers of admission. Two of the medical schools awarded her full tuition scholarships. LINK

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Jus' Sayin'...

    Not a peep in that second link about her academic qualifications, grades, class standing, MCAT scores, etc. As Sherlock Holmes noted an absence can be more of a clue than a preseence.

    • Replies: @res
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    That is an excellent metric for evaluating the "got into all of the Ivies" type stories. Occasionally I do encounter one that actually has the accomplishments one would expect (if one was unfamiliar with reality).

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Triumph104
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Yes, it would have been nice to have known her stats but I am sure they were high since she is in the honors program at college. A few years ago, a Nigerian Igbo graduated from Johns Hopkins with a 3.98 in neuroscience and Yale Medical School offered him a full-ride scholarship. He was accepted into every medical school he applied to, although I don't know how many. Eleven acceptances is the most that I have ever heard.

    That Nigerian Igbo arrived in the US at 13, received a full-ride scholarship to Johns Hopkins courtesy of the Gates Millennium Foundation along with the full-ride to Yale where he will also earn an MBA with his MD. Meanwhile the descendants of slaves are getting robbed by HBCUs and for-profit colleges.

    http://www.igbonetwork.com/a-22-year-old-nigerian-the-best-graduating-student-at-john-hopkins-university-in-the-u-s/

  210. res says:
    @black sea
    @candid_observer


    Has anybody ever done an IQ study of Mormons?
     
    From Gene Expression:

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/mormons-are-average/#.WOCeaWfynIV
     

    Replies: @res

    I was surprised by how high many of those IQ averages were. The Muslem SD was surprisingly low at 9.94 (is that a result of selective immigration from a low average area?).

    Razib draws a useful conclusion about Mormons (emphasis in original):

    I suspect with Mormons there is a much milder version of what has gone on with the Indian American community: strong selection biasing on migrants toward achievers.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @res

    I suspect part of the reason for the Mormon low average is "bleeding off". Romney is somewhat unusual in that he is a high IQ Mormon who has stuck with the church. Mormon religious doctrine is so recent and so patently false that most high IQ people would have trouble believing it.

    Maybe at the low end, there is also "bleeding off" because Mormonism requires you to keep to middle class type standards - no alcohol, premarital sex, even coffee and people with low IQ have troubles with self-control to the degree required.

    So that leaves a narrow band of people who are smart enough to discipline themselves to Mormon rules but not so smart that they start asking questions about how no one could see those tablets but Joseph Smith.

    If you look at the the 4 highest IQ groups they are Episcopal, Jewish, Atheist and Agnostic. What these 4 groups have in common in America is that (putting aside a small but growing Orthodox Jewish community) these are the 4 groups that are least likely to regularly attend a house of worship. Religious devotion is not completely incompatible with high IQ - there have been many high IQ individuals who are also devout believers, even in modern times. But I would say that there is a negative correlation between the two. A lot more scientists fall in those 4 groups than are Evangelical Christians.

    Replies: @Flip, @cthulhu

  211. @Autochthon
    @CJ

    I was in Boise last year reconnoitering for a refuge. The place is already infected: refugees and avid support for them everywhere: people protesting in favour of refugees at the statehouse, exhibits praising refugees and multikulturalism in the squares, museums, and universities. Mexicans and Guatamalans and Africans at the farmers' market. Females walking around in their sacks. Apartment complexes and condominiums sprouting up like mushrooms as part of a ubiquitously growing, cancerous sprawl. Many of the naïve locals were enthusiastically reveling in how progressive they were and how much the area was booming.

    Fools, the lot of them.

    The fellow who drove my shuttle back to the airport from my hotel was a local, and I was the only passenger. Being sociable, he asked about my visit and what I'd thought. I replied candidly, and he commiserrated: he himself, a man about sixty who'd lived his whole life there and loved it, was only waiting for his dear mother to pass away so that he could flee. When I explained I'd been horrified and heartbroken and now had to seek other options (I'd been interviewing for an academic position) he sympathised.

    Sad. Very sad.

    Replies: @res, @Flip

    Where was he thinking of fleeing to?

  212. Speaking of family formation, what does everyone think of all the tribute that vice has been paying to our Vice (heh) President’s virtue?

  213. res says:
    @Ed
    @res

    When the Obama administration sought to institute a sort of consumer reports rating for colleges. The fiercest opponents were HBCUs. As Triumph pointed out its students graduate with lots of debt with poor outcomes. Morehouse, a private HBCU which counts MLK Jr as an alum, is a median offender for HBCUs, the Obama admin rated it similarly to for profit art schools.

    The SAT profile of its students is fairly middling which leads to many students not graduating or unable to command salaries sufficient enough to service their loans. This is a prime example of the black middle class exploiting poorer blacks for their own gain on the backs of poor blacks.

    https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2013/02/28/historically-black-colleges-and-universities-flunk-obamas-college-scorecard/

    Replies: @res, @Triumph104

    I had always understood the HBCUs to be a good alternative. Thanks to you and Triumph104 for raising some of the issues so I could see. I thought this quote from your link was interesting:

    Hess says the reason for such poor scores could be many HBCU students often come from low-income backgrounds and are first-generation college attendees. But because “nobody looks,” he said, there is too little research on the topic to know for sure.

    From your comment:

    This is a prime example of the black middle class exploiting poorer blacks for their own gain on the backs of poor blacks.

    This issue came up in a discussion about problems in DC hospitals as well. Any thoughts on what could be done about this? Is it just a matter of being realistic about what kind of abilities/test scores are needed for college success?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @res

    Blacks who come from $100K plus income households score lower on the SAT than whites from sub-$20k households so all black demographic groups are in "need" of affirmative action regardless of their family circumstances. You might think that this is because IQ has a genetic component that is unrelated to family income but then you would be a dirty racist so stop thinking that way.

    The real "exploitation" that is going on now is that the beneficiaries of affirmative action are increasingly not American slave descendants for whom AA could be seen as a crude form of reparations (though legally its rationale is "diversity", not reparation)) but various Obama types with little to no slave ancestry.

    In the NYT yesterday (didn't care to save the link) there was a piece by a mulatto mother about how her quadroon 9 year old son was unhappy because, even though he "identified" as black, everyone saw him as white (because he looks white like his father). Kid needs to take some lessons from Rachel Dolezal - spend time at tanning salon, have kinky hair extensions put in, change your name, etc.

  214. @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Triumph104

    Not a peep in that second link about her academic qualifications, grades, class standing, MCAT scores, etc. As Sherlock Holmes noted an absence can be more of a clue than a preseence.

    Replies: @res, @Triumph104

    That is an excellent metric for evaluating the “got into all of the Ivies” type stories. Occasionally I do encounter one that actually has the accomplishments one would expect (if one was unfamiliar with reality).

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @res

    9 out of 10 "got into all the Ivies" stories that I see involve Nigerian-American Ibo kids. American Black average IQ is even lower than Hispanic and bona-fide slave descended American black geniuses who are actually black and not biracial or mulatto are as rare as ivory billed woodpeckers or Jewish NFL cornerbacks, but a certain % of Ibo's are of high intelligence (nothing that would get anyone excited if they were Chinese or Jewish, but not dumb either) so they are the holy grail of admission offices.

  215. @Jus' Sayin'...
    @stillCARealist

    I'm aware of the overall geography. I'm just talking about the view from the window of a Greyhound bus traveling along interstate 80, exiting Wyoming and entering Utah. The contrast was so striking that I commented on it at the time to a neighbor on the bus and in several letters home. Clearly there was (and I assume still is) something very different in the cultures dominating Wyoming and Utah. Nothing natural could account for the sharply delineated and extreme contrast that I observed back then. OTOH there was no such transition leaving Utah for Nevada. It was desert all the way some time after leaving Salt Lake City.

    Replies: @Jack D

    In my (one) drive cross country, this really struck me. On the map, the Western states are mostly just big boxes with no natural boundaries so you would think that they would be indistinguishable from each other, but in fact each state has its own character that makes it distinct and you can sort of see what led them to draw the boundaries – plain vs mountain, prairie vs forest, grazing land vs. farmland, etc.

  216. @res
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    That is an excellent metric for evaluating the "got into all of the Ivies" type stories. Occasionally I do encounter one that actually has the accomplishments one would expect (if one was unfamiliar with reality).

    Replies: @Jack D

    9 out of 10 “got into all the Ivies” stories that I see involve Nigerian-American Ibo kids. American Black average IQ is even lower than Hispanic and bona-fide slave descended American black geniuses who are actually black and not biracial or mulatto are as rare as ivory billed woodpeckers or Jewish NFL cornerbacks, but a certain % of Ibo’s are of high intelligence (nothing that would get anyone excited if they were Chinese or Jewish, but not dumb either) so they are the holy grail of admission offices.

  217. @res
    @Ed

    I had always understood the HBCUs to be a good alternative. Thanks to you and Triumph104 for raising some of the issues so I could see. I thought this quote from your link was interesting:


    Hess says the reason for such poor scores could be many HBCU students often come from low-income backgrounds and are first-generation college attendees. But because “nobody looks,” he said, there is too little research on the topic to know for sure.
     
    From your comment:

    This is a prime example of the black middle class exploiting poorer blacks for their own gain on the backs of poor blacks.
     
    This issue came up in a discussion about problems in DC hospitals as well. Any thoughts on what could be done about this? Is it just a matter of being realistic about what kind of abilities/test scores are needed for college success?

    Replies: @Jack D

    Blacks who come from $100K plus income households score lower on the SAT than whites from sub-$20k households so all black demographic groups are in “need” of affirmative action regardless of their family circumstances. You might think that this is because IQ has a genetic component that is unrelated to family income but then you would be a dirty racist so stop thinking that way.

    The real “exploitation” that is going on now is that the beneficiaries of affirmative action are increasingly not American slave descendants for whom AA could be seen as a crude form of reparations (though legally its rationale is “diversity”, not reparation)) but various Obama types with little to no slave ancestry.

    In the NYT yesterday (didn’t care to save the link) there was a piece by a mulatto mother about how her quadroon 9 year old son was unhappy because, even though he “identified” as black, everyone saw him as white (because he looks white like his father). Kid needs to take some lessons from Rachel Dolezal – spend time at tanning salon, have kinky hair extensions put in, change your name, etc.

  218. @res
    @black sea

    I was surprised by how high many of those IQ averages were. The Muslem SD was surprisingly low at 9.94 (is that a result of selective immigration from a low average area?).

    Razib draws a useful conclusion about Mormons (emphasis in original):


    I suspect with Mormons there is a much milder version of what has gone on with the Indian American community: strong selection biasing on migrants toward achievers.
     

    Replies: @Jack D

    I suspect part of the reason for the Mormon low average is “bleeding off”. Romney is somewhat unusual in that he is a high IQ Mormon who has stuck with the church. Mormon religious doctrine is so recent and so patently false that most high IQ people would have trouble believing it.

    Maybe at the low end, there is also “bleeding off” because Mormonism requires you to keep to middle class type standards – no alcohol, premarital sex, even coffee and people with low IQ have troubles with self-control to the degree required.

    So that leaves a narrow band of people who are smart enough to discipline themselves to Mormon rules but not so smart that they start asking questions about how no one could see those tablets but Joseph Smith.

    If you look at the the 4 highest IQ groups they are Episcopal, Jewish, Atheist and Agnostic. What these 4 groups have in common in America is that (putting aside a small but growing Orthodox Jewish community) these are the 4 groups that are least likely to regularly attend a house of worship. Religious devotion is not completely incompatible with high IQ – there have been many high IQ individuals who are also devout believers, even in modern times. But I would say that there is a negative correlation between the two. A lot more scientists fall in those 4 groups than are Evangelical Christians.

    • Replies: @Flip
    @Jack D

    I've read that a lot of Episcopalians today are converts, so maybe they gain upwardly mobile high IQ professionals.

    , @cthulhu
    @Jack D



    I suspect part of the reason for the Mormon low average is “bleeding off”. Romney is somewhat unusual in that he is a high IQ Mormon who has stuck with the church. Mormon religious doctrine is so recent and so patently false that most high IQ people would have trouble believing it.

     

    In a 30+ year career in high tech engineering, I've worked with several Mormons, all very sharp and hard workers, although somewhat personality-challenged. Granted, it takes a decent amount of brainpower to get a degree in this field and be successful, so maybe I'm just seeing selection bias - but I've never met an ex-Mormon in the field either.

    It's odd though - these are really sharp people, but they believe things that are even more laughable than most religions, and that don't even have the patina of ancientness. The cognitive dissonance must be fierce.
  219. @SFG
    @Anon

    As an extremely distant relative once said, ye shall know them by their fruits. They stay out of trouble, raise nice families, exceed the replacement rate, and they're all so clean! Mormonism works for Mormons. They found a way to live in the 1950s long after the 1950s passed.

    The scifi stuff is silly, but so is praying at a giant rock in the desert or not wearing two fabrics of clothing together. Even the South Park guys had to relent when making fun of the Mormons--their usual point is that the theology is silly but the people are nice.

    Replies: @TelfoedJohn

    The more absurd the religion, the greater effort made by its adherents to prove their lifestyle is right. The Black Hebrew Israelites of Israel are another example. They descend from African Americans who believe that they are descended from real Jews etc, and they adhere to a healthy lifestyle: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/food/.premium-1.713320

    I’m willing to bet they live much longer and are more productive than other African Americans. And they can only do this because they have ludicrous beliefs.

    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor
    @TelfoedJohn


    The Black Hebrew Israelites of Israel are another example. They descend from African Americans who believe that they are descended from real Jews etc, and they adhere to a healthy lifestyle:
     
    Many of the Black Israelites have the same connection to Judaism as Nation of Islam members have with Islam: it's just a militant black racist organization. Their interest in authentic Judaism/Islam is very low.

    While I consider the SPLC as a hate group themselves, they flag the Black Israelites as militants:

    https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2008/racist-black-hebrew-israelites-becoming-more-militant
  220. @Ed
    @res

    When the Obama administration sought to institute a sort of consumer reports rating for colleges. The fiercest opponents were HBCUs. As Triumph pointed out its students graduate with lots of debt with poor outcomes. Morehouse, a private HBCU which counts MLK Jr as an alum, is a median offender for HBCUs, the Obama admin rated it similarly to for profit art schools.

    The SAT profile of its students is fairly middling which leads to many students not graduating or unable to command salaries sufficient enough to service their loans. This is a prime example of the black middle class exploiting poorer blacks for their own gain on the backs of poor blacks.

    https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2013/02/28/historically-black-colleges-and-universities-flunk-obamas-college-scorecard/

    Replies: @res, @Triumph104

    Last year, Bethune-Cookman, an HBCU in Daytona Beach, FL, partnered with the for-profit Arizona Summit Law School to “address the lack of diversity in the legal profession”. B-C will be steering students to a law school that was placed on probation by the ABA last week because among many reasons, the July 2016 pass rate for the bar exam by first-time takers was 25%.

    Supposedly Arizona Summit Law School will award full scholarships, but usually with law schools the funds are contingent on maintaining a 3.0 GPA or higher, which I don’t think is possible for most B-C grads since 50 percent of the student body scored between 350 and 450 on each section of the SAT.

    I would imagine that HBCUs exploiting their own students, overwhelmingly poor and underachieving, is why Malia Obama didn’t visit even one on her college search.

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-education/2017/03/27/arizona-summit-law-school-probation-low-bar-passage-rates/99698686/

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Triumph104

    Law school is problematic for blacks because there has been no attempt to dumb down bar exams or give blacks AA consideration on them as they have been given all thru school up to that point. Some very high % of blacks who start law school never pass the bar exam, meaning that they have wasted their time (and someone's money if not necessarily their own).

    , @Ed
    @Triumph104

    I just looked up Bethune-Cookman on College Scorecard. This is criminal exploitation:

    Median Salary 10 years after entering: $29,490
    Typical Total Debt: $36,250 with a typical monthly payment of $372.

    Only 21% pay at least $1 of principal within 3 years of leaving school.

  221. @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Triumph104

    Not a peep in that second link about her academic qualifications, grades, class standing, MCAT scores, etc. As Sherlock Holmes noted an absence can be more of a clue than a preseence.

    Replies: @res, @Triumph104

    Yes, it would have been nice to have known her stats but I am sure they were high since she is in the honors program at college. A few years ago, a Nigerian Igbo graduated from Johns Hopkins with a 3.98 in neuroscience and Yale Medical School offered him a full-ride scholarship. He was accepted into every medical school he applied to, although I don’t know how many. Eleven acceptances is the most that I have ever heard.

    That Nigerian Igbo arrived in the US at 13, received a full-ride scholarship to Johns Hopkins courtesy of the Gates Millennium Foundation along with the full-ride to Yale where he will also earn an MBA with his MD. Meanwhile the descendants of slaves are getting robbed by HBCUs and for-profit colleges.

    http://www.igbonetwork.com/a-22-year-old-nigerian-the-best-graduating-student-at-john-hopkins-university-in-the-u-s/

  222. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Numinous
    @Autochthon

    You are a poster child for gun control laws. And lunatic asylums.

    Replies: @anon, @Autochthon

    Plenty of white settlers were attacked and killed when they tried to settle into Indian lands. So, this conflict is nothing new and has been going on for five centuries. That white loser who killed is not anymore exempt from the normal human emotions of envy and jealousy that the Indians felt towards the white settlers of the past. If you read this site regularly, you can sense a lot of envy and jealousy we feel towards the foreigners. It is just that we are not all violent. This was all predicted by Enoch Powell in U.K. over half century ago when the Commonwealth citizens started settling in Britain.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_of_Blood_speech

  223. @Intelligent Dasein
    Megan McArdle wrote:

    Bad news: The wide gulf between Utah and, say, North Carolina implies that we do, in fact, have a real problem on our hands. A child born in the bottom quintile of incomes in Charlotte has only a 4 percent chance of making it into the top quintile. A child in Salt Lake City, on the other hand, has more than a 10.8 percent chance — achingly close to the 11.7 percent found in Denmark and well on the way to the 20 percent chance you would expect in a perfectly just world.
     
    This statement is absurd. To summarize, McArdle apparently believes that in "a perfectly just world"---i.e. one that is perfectly free of impediments preventing each individual from rising or falling to the level of his natural ability, regardless of the social stratum in which he was born---a full fifth of those worthy to occupy the highest echelons of society would just happen to find themselves unhappily born into the lowest, with many of those hindered from assuming their rightful place by artificial social barriers correspondingly construed as "unjust." It is as if the stork simply sprinkles children of random abilities throughout the full breadth of the socioeconomic spectrum, and that there are no other factors---hereditary, cultural, or circumstantial as the case may be---acting to conserve class distinctions within relatively stable breeding populations.

    This idea, which is all the more forceful for being a completely unconscious and axiomatic assumption (such that it can be dropped into the conversation neither needing justification nor fearing criticism), is one of the chief errors underlying all modern political thought, which is always in its essence social thought; that is to say, thought directed towards the solving of "social problems" conceived mechanistically and therefore attacked with the mathematical techniques of probabilities and aggregates. It obviously forms a large part of the modern liberal brief with "racism," for the stork pays no heed to the color of the parents' skin when salting the earth with geniuses, or so they believe. So also does it animate the advocates of unrestricted immigration; the stork is a species of bird with a global distribution, and casts his gifts of love unreservedly into every land and clime. In its deeps the idea is Manichean, as it appears to entails the belief in a separated soul-substance that finds itself enchained within the demiurgic darkness of social conditions, but not hypostatically united to any particular being.

    It is only necessary to examine the facts in order to reveal that the idea has no foundation in actuality; and this can be done---and should be done---without resorting to the HBD-favored explanations of genetics and psychology, which are rightfully regarded as resting on rather shaky and involved hypotheses that could be invalidated to the detriment of the entire argument. The plainest refutation is to be found in the social facts themselves. To this end I propose the following items for consideration.

    1. The real world is not a meritocracy in any case. Here the concept of "social justice' itself deconstructs the twin assumptions that ability is evenly distributed and that equal abilities ought to lead to equal outcomes.



    2. While it is true that some born unto lowly estates do not ascend and do not deserve their lot, that is also true of many who do ascend, i.e. they do not deserve their newfound fortune. Likewise it is true of some well-born people who are ruined, that they did not deserve their misfortune. Social mobility is not only a two-way street between the high and the low, it is also a road traveled, in both directions, by both the worthy and the unworthy. This is especially true if income by quintile is made the only criterion of social position.

    3. While the circulation of elites is vital to the health of the state, so also by implication is the non-circulation of the non-elites. Individuals constantly enter and exit each social stratum not only through social mobility, but also by birth and death. But lest society deteriorate into a formless mass, it is necessary that these class designations continue to have a stable and identifiable meaning in spite of the train of individuals passing through. There is no compelling reason for an upper stratum to open its doors to any but the most qualified candidates from the lower strata, and sometimes not even then when its own issue, though perhaps not ideal, is still nonetheless adequate. Furthermore, it is entirely imprudent to foist upon lower members of society burdens heavier than they can bear and challenges other than those they can successfully meet.

    4. A great deal is already said about the benefits of social mobility, but much more ought to be said about the advantages conferred by aristocracy. It is not unthinkable---indeed it is entirely reasonable to believe---that the fact of growing up in the very atmosphere of wealth and power is often an important element in qualifying one to successfully manage it later on. In an analogous sense, the burdens and exigencies peculiar to a working-class existence behave the same way. Rich kids seldom make good bricklayers, but the yeoman's son knows every inch of the family farm intimately.

    5. Money, being a mobile and almost ephemeral form of property, is subject to volatile and often irrational ebbs and flows. Therefore, when monetary income is used as the sole measure of social status, it is bound to capture much that is transient, groundless, disruptive, and sometimes even destructive of the social order. The mere fact that, say, 10 percent of the first quintile made it to the fifth quintile over the course of their lives, can only be regarded as a meaningless datum in the absence of any information pertaining to how they got there or what else happened along the way.

    6. In today's advanced societies, wherein the ultra-rich are almost unimaginably wealthy and the top few hundred or few thousand individuals have a fortune equal to the bottom three quintiles put together, it is fully possible to redistribute income away from the ultra-rich in an amount they would not even miss, to selected members of the lower classes greatly to their benefit. The upper classes may even undertake this task of their own volition, and this they often do and have done with the beneficiaries selected not according to merit but rather to their own sentiment and caprice.

    Although statements like ones above could be multiplied quite extensively, these six are sufficient to prove the main point. What does social mobility tell us about the so-called justice of a society? In a word, nothing. A perfectly just society never has and never will exist on earth, but a tolerably contented society may have a great deal of social mobility or none, depending on other conditions. Social mobility is not invariably good, and sometimes it is decidedly bad. Even so, a perfectly just world would be a world where everybody received his due, where everybody was paid out according to what he contributed; and what a man is able to contribute as an individual is not independent of the time, place, and circumstances of his birth. The notion that 20 percent of the first quintile should progress to the fifth quintile over the course of their lives implies not perfect justice, but the perfectly random distribution of talents and opportunities. This is not the case.

    When a Whitetopia like Mormon Utah builds a private welfare state that benefits its lower social strata, this is not justice nor even charity. It is beautification, largess, condescension, and---let us put a fine point on it---the falsification of social facts. It involves paying some members of society more than they are due and is thus fundamentally unjust, although not necessarily imprudent. It is either prudent or imprudent as the case may be, given the shifting plate tectonics of various conflicting social forces; but it must involve the lower classes eventually paying off their advances or it is merely dissipative in the long run. It is never Pareto optimal.

    From a purely economic and physical point of view there is no difference in the programs underlying Whitetopia, the worse-run government welfare state, or all of Keynesian economics itself. The only differences are in the mechanisms of redistribution and the identities of beneficiaries and benefactors. If it is necessary for governments to practice largess from time to time---and I maintain that it is---then it is necessary for states to be "unjust." To the extent they are unjust, they must be preferential. To the extent they are preferential, they must be tribal. Therefore all governments that redistribute wealth are ipso facto nationalist governments. The only question is whether or not our nominal national government is actually benefiting us.

    It is clear that the US government is no longer benefiting White Americans. The question is can it be brought to do so, and how?

    Replies: @Autochthon, @ben tillman

    This statement is absurd. To summarize, McArdle apparently believes that in “a perfectly just world”—i.e. one that is perfectly free of impediments preventing each individual from rising or falling to the level of his natural ability, regardless of the social stratum in which he was born—a full fifth of those worthy to occupy the highest echelons of society would just happen to find themselves unhappily born into the lowest [fifth] . . . .

    It’s crazy.

  224. I don’t know how long Utah will remain red. During the election season I was shocked how many of friends and fellow Mormons came out as statists and Bernie Sanders supporters. Genuinely shocked.

    If you look back at the 60s and 70s, church leadership was vocally anti-communism, anti-socialism. They warned of the dangers of socialized societies. They don’t speak like that anymore.

    Mormonism, tragically, has lost its way. It’s become a cultural designation rather than a religious affiliation.

    Salt Lake County is more or less blue now. Utah country, which is just south of Salt Lake County and the Mormon stronghold for now, remains red. But I don’t know if Utah has 20 more years before it flips blue.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened sooner.

    I once read that 80% of Mormons are of British extraction. We have lots of WASPY/Norman blood in us…

  225. @Jack D
    @res

    I suspect part of the reason for the Mormon low average is "bleeding off". Romney is somewhat unusual in that he is a high IQ Mormon who has stuck with the church. Mormon religious doctrine is so recent and so patently false that most high IQ people would have trouble believing it.

    Maybe at the low end, there is also "bleeding off" because Mormonism requires you to keep to middle class type standards - no alcohol, premarital sex, even coffee and people with low IQ have troubles with self-control to the degree required.

    So that leaves a narrow band of people who are smart enough to discipline themselves to Mormon rules but not so smart that they start asking questions about how no one could see those tablets but Joseph Smith.

    If you look at the the 4 highest IQ groups they are Episcopal, Jewish, Atheist and Agnostic. What these 4 groups have in common in America is that (putting aside a small but growing Orthodox Jewish community) these are the 4 groups that are least likely to regularly attend a house of worship. Religious devotion is not completely incompatible with high IQ - there have been many high IQ individuals who are also devout believers, even in modern times. But I would say that there is a negative correlation between the two. A lot more scientists fall in those 4 groups than are Evangelical Christians.

    Replies: @Flip, @cthulhu

    I’ve read that a lot of Episcopalians today are converts, so maybe they gain upwardly mobile high IQ professionals.

  226. @AnotherDad
    @Jack D

    Jack, your points on Jewish and Chinese eugenics seem spot on.

    But I don't think you're on target with the Mormons. The polygamy thing was a passing fancy and probably had very little genetic impact.

    The Mormon selection would have been for smart, conscientious hard workers who could cooperate in the system. It's pretty much the sort selection that's been going on in white gentiles for a few thousand years--outlined by Greg Clark in Farewell to Alms--and accounts for why white gentiles have produced the best nations in the world.

    They have their own community, and hence aren't pushing their kids into the coastal elites, so you probably haven't encountered many and think they aren't punching their weight. But where they are, they are usually plenty who are on the ball, movers and shakers. They aren't going to be like Jews or Chinese, but they are very solid typical white gentiles. They aren't punching below their weight.

    The Mormons are also likely in much better eugenic shape going forward than most white people. For example, while Jews while selected for smarts--especially verbally skilled--this has also tossed off a lot of Jewish gals who are smart--IQ wise at least--but talky, bitchy. Some of the whiners in chief of the last 50. These are gals who think they are heroes of Soviet motherhood--Jewish division--if they have a 2nd kid. (Maybe if they have any kid!) In contrast the Mormon girls, if they stick with the program, know they will have at least three if physically capable. So smart Mormon girls aren't marrying smart Mormon men and then destroying their genes.

    The open questions about their eugenics:
    --> More gals than guys stick with the program. Should mean that high quality guys tend to find terrific wives who are attractive and smart and great moms who'll willingly produce babies and keep smart genes propagating. But it could mean it's too easy for dullard guys to reproduce who are supposed to be selected out in the natural order.
    --> Are they boiling off too many of the smartest folks. Obviously the boiling off will tend to whack the loose canons and uncooperative. But it might also now be boiling off too many smart guys who just think the program is too stupid and constraining. Mormons might find themselves getting Amishized.

    Of course the *big* problem for the Mormons is the same one for all white gentile groups--insufficient racial consciousness. The Mormons are out "saving" everyone all over the planet, and the Church is just fine with these Mexicans streaming into Utah ... they are smothered with Mormon love and ergo will inevitably become part of the Mormon gene pool.

    Mormons would be much better off with less soul saving and more explicit ethnic group identity--a particular people with a particular story, more like the Jews. Of course, they used to have a more explicit racial identity. But the Jews running our culture decided that was illegitimate, and the Mormons buckled years ago. Only Jews are allowed to have an explicit racial identity. Anyone else wanting to maintain their group's racial identity is a racist!

    Replies: @CommanderFun

    I agree with this assessment.

    What’s interesting to me is that The Book of Mormon is the single most nationalistic document I’ve ever read.

    If anyone’s not read it, I encourage you to.

    The short story:

    Two families are led from Jerusalem about 600 BC. After arriving in the Promised Land (America) the family splinters into two group – Nephites (the righteous) and the Lamanites (the wicked).

    After the family split, God specifically commanded the Nephites not to marry the Lamanites, les they “dwindle in unbelief.” So serious was this commandment that God cursed the Lamanites with a skin of darkness (plenty of arguments in Mormon circles about whether this is literal or metaphorical). If any Nephite married a Lamanite, the children adopted the curse. This wasn’t a racial separation, but a cultural/religious one.

    Over the next 1,000 years, these two groups are at constant war with each other. The Nephites continually engage in self-defensive measures to protect their God-given lands from the Lamanites. Keeping the culture “pure,” for lack of a better word, was paramount. The laws were strict and the death penalty was regularly enforced (they lived under the Law of Moses at the time). During the entire saga, the only group ever allowed in their territory was a group of Lamanites who were converted to the Lord (the Ammonites).

    Moroni, a great military leader and prophet, charged his people with walling up and fortifying ever single city in their land to protect them from Lamanite invasion. At one point Moroni writes on a piece of his coat, “In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children.” He fastened the coat to a pole and hoisted it up, calling it “The Title of Liberty.” He then caused that standard hoisted up in every Nephite city. It’s great stuff.

    In the end, however, the Nephite people rebelled against God, lost God’s protection, lost their racial and spiritual identity as as covenant people and were completely destroyed.

    A timely lesson, methinks.

  227. @Autochthon
    @CJ

    I was in Boise last year reconnoitering for a refuge. The place is already infected: refugees and avid support for them everywhere: people protesting in favour of refugees at the statehouse, exhibits praising refugees and multikulturalism in the squares, museums, and universities. Mexicans and Guatamalans and Africans at the farmers' market. Females walking around in their sacks. Apartment complexes and condominiums sprouting up like mushrooms as part of a ubiquitously growing, cancerous sprawl. Many of the naïve locals were enthusiastically reveling in how progressive they were and how much the area was booming.

    Fools, the lot of them.

    The fellow who drove my shuttle back to the airport from my hotel was a local, and I was the only passenger. Being sociable, he asked about my visit and what I'd thought. I replied candidly, and he commiserrated: he himself, a man about sixty who'd lived his whole life there and loved it, was only waiting for his dear mother to pass away so that he could flee. When I explained I'd been horrified and heartbroken and now had to seek other options (I'd been interviewing for an academic position) he sympathised.

    Sad. Very sad.

    Replies: @res, @Flip

    That’s too bad. Boise was on my potential retirement list some day. I am thinking Eugene, Oregon is a possibility. They’re lefties but still relatively non-diverse and you have the benefits of a large university.

  228. @David Davenport
    @Ed

    Good point & WV has the highest black % of the 3 states at a robust, 3.4%. So blacks aren’t a factor.


    That's is egregiously incorrect. That 3.4% is closer to the percentage of West Virginians who are black. West Virginia's problem is that coal mining remains the biggest industry there. The white genealogy of West Va. is more similar to that western PA than to former Confederate states -- more West Virginians with Slavic roots. Think Sen. Joe Manchin.

    North Carolina, on the other hand, is 20-25% black.

    Charlotte has a sizeable number of Jewish residents. Utah does not.

    The collapse of Wachovia Bank in Charlotte, N.C. is a large part of Charlotte's post 2008 economic troubles. Charlotte and other parts of N.C. had a big real estate boom in the 2000's. Utah, not as much. I suppose that houses then and now were affordable in Salt Lake City.

    Regarding "quarrelsome" Scot-Irish denizens of N.C.: North Carolina used to be as red or redder than its neighbor state Tennessee, using current political labels. No more. N.C. is now a "purple" toss-up state. Why? Too many more or less white peepul from the Northeast have emigrated to North Carolina. They haven't improved the place. ... Very unfortunate for N.C.

    Replies: @Sideways

    Calling something you agree with “egregiously incorrect” is strange.

  229. @MNL
    @Wilkey

    You say perhaps 2% of Utah's marriages are polygamist? That's still 10x too high. It's somewhat like the statistics on transexualism. The odd, purient nature of it tends inflate our estimates of its prevalence.

    Replies: @Wilkey

    You say perhaps 2% of Utah’s marriages are polygamist? That’s still 10x too high. It’s somewhat like the statistics on transexualism. The odd, purient nature of it tends inflate our estimates of its prevalence.

    The last estimates I read, about 5 years ago, were that about 50,000 people (husbands, wives, their children) in Utah were living in polygamous families. That may have already been an old estimate at the time. That’s about 1.7% of Utah’s current population. That was an official estimate, sfaik, not some random guesstimate someone pulled out of their rear. It’s possible it may overestimate the actual number 2-3 fold, but it certainly isn’t 10x as high.

    Believe me, there are a lot of them out there. The population of Hildale, Utah is about 3,000. There are another 4,800 or so across the border in Colorado City, Arizona. There are scattered bands, small and large, all across Salt Lake County, and probably in every other county in Utah, as well.

    Those who think polygamy is some great kind of way to fortify the gene pool or boost white birthrates are kidding themselves. Getting people to marry earlier, making it easier for mother’s to work less (or not at all) outside of the home, showing greater respect to women who choose to be mothers – those are the ways to boost white birthrates, not polygamy.

  230. @Numinous
    @Autochthon

    You are a poster child for gun control laws. And lunatic asylums.

    Replies: @anon, @Autochthon

    Well, with irrefutable and substantive arguments like that one you put both Webster and Calhoun to shame.

    A lesser man might have made a dismissive, ad hominem attack with no merit.

  231. @TelfoedJohn
    @SFG

    The more absurd the religion, the greater effort made by its adherents to prove their lifestyle is right. The Black Hebrew Israelites of Israel are another example. They descend from African Americans who believe that they are descended from real Jews etc, and they adhere to a healthy lifestyle: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/food/.premium-1.713320

    I'm willing to bet they live much longer and are more productive than other African Americans. And they can only do this because they have ludicrous beliefs.

    Replies: @Massimo Heitor

    The Black Hebrew Israelites of Israel are another example. They descend from African Americans who believe that they are descended from real Jews etc, and they adhere to a healthy lifestyle:

    Many of the Black Israelites have the same connection to Judaism as Nation of Islam members have with Islam: it’s just a militant black racist organization. Their interest in authentic Judaism/Islam is very low.

    While I consider the SPLC as a hate group themselves, they flag the Black Israelites as militants:

    https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2008/racist-black-hebrew-israelites-becoming-more-militant

  232. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @IAmCorn
    Utah is starting to sound like the last, best place for Core Americans. Too bad a girl interested in being a nice Mormon stay at home mom probably wouldn't marry an atheist like myself.....

    Replies: @Anonymous

    A lot of Mormon belief in Mormonism, at least in private, comes down to what you believe the meaning of “believe” is. Most intelligent Mormons believe in Mormonism the way especially nerdy Star Trek or Star Wars fans believe in Star Trek or Star Wars. There is a suspension of disbelief on a certain level.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Anonymous

    Intelligent Mormons believe (or don't believe) in the Book of Mormon in exactly the same way that intelligent Christians believe in the New Testament or Jews believe in the Old Testament. Star Trek fans don't believe for one moment that it is anything but a complete fiction from start to finish. If that is your level of religious belief then you are not a believer at all.

    I think King Arthur is closer. I believe that there was a King Arthur, in the same way that there was Jesus and a Moses (and that there never was a Captain Kirk) but that the stories attached to him about pulling the sword out of the stone, etc. may not be literally true.

  233. @Jack D
    @res

    I suspect part of the reason for the Mormon low average is "bleeding off". Romney is somewhat unusual in that he is a high IQ Mormon who has stuck with the church. Mormon religious doctrine is so recent and so patently false that most high IQ people would have trouble believing it.

    Maybe at the low end, there is also "bleeding off" because Mormonism requires you to keep to middle class type standards - no alcohol, premarital sex, even coffee and people with low IQ have troubles with self-control to the degree required.

    So that leaves a narrow band of people who are smart enough to discipline themselves to Mormon rules but not so smart that they start asking questions about how no one could see those tablets but Joseph Smith.

    If you look at the the 4 highest IQ groups they are Episcopal, Jewish, Atheist and Agnostic. What these 4 groups have in common in America is that (putting aside a small but growing Orthodox Jewish community) these are the 4 groups that are least likely to regularly attend a house of worship. Religious devotion is not completely incompatible with high IQ - there have been many high IQ individuals who are also devout believers, even in modern times. But I would say that there is a negative correlation between the two. A lot more scientists fall in those 4 groups than are Evangelical Christians.

    Replies: @Flip, @cthulhu

    I suspect part of the reason for the Mormon low average is “bleeding off”. Romney is somewhat unusual in that he is a high IQ Mormon who has stuck with the church. Mormon religious doctrine is so recent and so patently false that most high IQ people would have trouble believing it.

    In a 30+ year career in high tech engineering, I’ve worked with several Mormons, all very sharp and hard workers, although somewhat personality-challenged. Granted, it takes a decent amount of brainpower to get a degree in this field and be successful, so maybe I’m just seeing selection bias – but I’ve never met an ex-Mormon in the field either.

    It’s odd though – these are really sharp people, but they believe things that are even more laughable than most religions, and that don’t even have the patina of ancientness. The cognitive dissonance must be fierce.

  234. @Anonymous
    @IAmCorn

    A lot of Mormon belief in Mormonism, at least in private, comes down to what you believe the meaning of "believe" is. Most intelligent Mormons believe in Mormonism the way especially nerdy Star Trek or Star Wars fans believe in Star Trek or Star Wars. There is a suspension of disbelief on a certain level.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Intelligent Mormons believe (or don’t believe) in the Book of Mormon in exactly the same way that intelligent Christians believe in the New Testament or Jews believe in the Old Testament. Star Trek fans don’t believe for one moment that it is anything but a complete fiction from start to finish. If that is your level of religious belief then you are not a believer at all.

    I think King Arthur is closer. I believe that there was a King Arthur, in the same way that there was Jesus and a Moses (and that there never was a Captain Kirk) but that the stories attached to him about pulling the sword out of the stone, etc. may not be literally true.

  235. @Triumph104
    @Ed

    Last year, Bethune-Cookman, an HBCU in Daytona Beach, FL, partnered with the for-profit Arizona Summit Law School to "address the lack of diversity in the legal profession". B-C will be steering students to a law school that was placed on probation by the ABA last week because among many reasons, the July 2016 pass rate for the bar exam by first-time takers was 25%.

    Supposedly Arizona Summit Law School will award full scholarships, but usually with law schools the funds are contingent on maintaining a 3.0 GPA or higher, which I don't think is possible for most B-C grads since 50 percent of the student body scored between 350 and 450 on each section of the SAT.

    I would imagine that HBCUs exploiting their own students, overwhelmingly poor and underachieving, is why Malia Obama didn't visit even one on her college search.

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-education/2017/03/27/arizona-summit-law-school-probation-low-bar-passage-rates/99698686/

    Replies: @Jack D, @Ed

    Law school is problematic for blacks because there has been no attempt to dumb down bar exams or give blacks AA consideration on them as they have been given all thru school up to that point. Some very high % of blacks who start law school never pass the bar exam, meaning that they have wasted their time (and someone’s money if not necessarily their own).

  236. “…achingly close to the 11.7 percent found in Denmark and well on the way to the 20 percent chance you would expect in a perfectly just world.”

    Where did she get this stat from and what exactly is a “perfectly just world”?

    Secondly, taking this 20%, this means that she’s admitting that a large majority of “the poor” cannot climb out of poverty, even in a “perfectly just world”. Wouldn’t that imply that there is something about “the poor” rather than the environment that keeps them poor?

  237. I think Mr. Sailer’s comparison of Utah Mormons to Liberal welfare state Swedes is accurate. Both groups tend to be terrible on immigration, wanting to share their successful good life with others.

    My close friend and LDS Mormon bishop from San Diego was just sent on a mission to…..

    Congo Black Africa

    This is straight out of the musical comedy show ‘The Book of Mormon” where 2 well scrubbed White Mormon missionaries get sent to Uganda.

    Real life White Mormons do want acceptance from the Lib Left media, political establishment. They believe that they will be accepted and everyone including Liberals, Leftists and Islamists will like them when they see how nice and neat the LDS Mormons are in their lives.

    LDS Mormons don’t have a paid priesthood and church services include regular church members speaking. LDS Mormons are good at music and maybe the worst, most boring speakers anywhere in the history of White European oriented people.

  238. @Triumph104
    @Ed

    Last year, Bethune-Cookman, an HBCU in Daytona Beach, FL, partnered with the for-profit Arizona Summit Law School to "address the lack of diversity in the legal profession". B-C will be steering students to a law school that was placed on probation by the ABA last week because among many reasons, the July 2016 pass rate for the bar exam by first-time takers was 25%.

    Supposedly Arizona Summit Law School will award full scholarships, but usually with law schools the funds are contingent on maintaining a 3.0 GPA or higher, which I don't think is possible for most B-C grads since 50 percent of the student body scored between 350 and 450 on each section of the SAT.

    I would imagine that HBCUs exploiting their own students, overwhelmingly poor and underachieving, is why Malia Obama didn't visit even one on her college search.

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-education/2017/03/27/arizona-summit-law-school-probation-low-bar-passage-rates/99698686/

    Replies: @Jack D, @Ed

    I just looked up Bethune-Cookman on College Scorecard. This is criminal exploitation:

    Median Salary 10 years after entering: $29,490
    Typical Total Debt: $36,250 with a typical monthly payment of $372.

    Only 21% pay at least $1 of principal within 3 years of leaving school.

  239. We’ve written extensively about American LDS Mormons at Occidental Dissent:

    Hanging Out With White Mormons
    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2010/09/18/hanging-out-with-white-mormons/

    Hanging Out With White Mormons II
    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2013/08/01/hanging-out-with-white-mormons-part-ii/

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2016/09/09/mormon-immigration-traitors-latter-day-sissies/

    I’ve been in and sort of out of the LDS Mormon Church for 25 years. They have some good qualities – a positive birth rate, LDS Mormon wives and mothers are rarely if ever feminists and don’t cause trouble.

    But LDS Mormons tend to really, really suck on some important issues. LDS Mormons suck on immigration – almost as bad as Lib Left Jews or Neo Conservative Jews. LDS Mormons go with the idea that

    “America once persecuted Mormons, so we have to take the side of Muslim migrants who are also being discriminated against”.

    LDS Mormons were once White racialists and didn’t give Black African Americans the LDS priesthood until ~ 1970. So now there is the terrible predictable reality of wealthy LDS Mormons like Mitt Romney going all over the Lib media saying:

    “See we’re not racist anymore – we love Martin Luther King Jr. anything with the term “Civil Rights” and see we’re now a world wide church not just White Church in Utah and Arizona.”

    LDS Mormon Pols and high church leaders sound more and more like that cursed Southern Baptist Leader Russell Moore who gets published on the New York Times Op Ed page smearing the small Southern towns like Mayberry on the Andy Griffith Show.

    LDS Mormons really like being accepted to Ivy League Lib colleges like Columbia and Yale.

    Face it, organized, tax exempt “Christian” Churches just aren’t working for us in the USA, the West. The new CINO (Catholic in Name Only) Pope Francis loves to do photo ops where he literally licks the boots of invading Black, Muslim migrant invaders to Italy.

  240. @SFG
    @anonymous

    Lots of libertarians were Jewish. Read Murray Rothbard's Sociology of the Ayn Rand Cult--it's really quite funny.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/murray-n-rothbard/understanding-ayn-randianism/

    Replies: @PV van der Byl, @anonymous, @jack ryan

    And it is a brutal, sad reality that Jewish Libertarians are usually as fanatical about open borders immigration to the USA as the worst Lib Leftist Jews.

    The case of the ugly Jewess Tamar Jacoby shows this to be the case.

    Tamar Jacoby was a typical Jewish marxist at the New School of Social Research, then she crosses the street one day and works for the Wall Street Journal as a libertarian and immigration crusader (for USA, the West). She’s also a super strong supporter of the state of Israel as a Jewish ethno state. She sees no contradiction in these positions.

    It’s goes with the idea with Jews (Arabs and Muslims do the same thing)

    “What’s mine is mine. What’s yours needs to be multi cultural”.

  241. In a 30+ year career in high tech engineering, I’ve worked with several Mormons, all very sharp and hard workers, although somewhat personality-challenged.

    Somewhat personality-challenged? In other words, personalities typical of engineering vocations, nothing peculiar to Mormon engineers.: “Honey, why don’t you like my plaid sportcoat, especially when I wear it with this striped tie?”

    I’m sure that Steve’s father was an exception to this.

  242. Utah’s willingness to help, and its ability to help, may arise from its homogeneity 

    I have to credit McArdle for acknowledging the benefit of ethnic homogeneity that is lost when transitioning to a heterogeneous one. Most mainstream journalists aren’t willing to admit that.

  243. @David
    @Almost Missouri

    At least one opinion piece published in the Western Standard in 1857 indicates that polygamy as practiced by Mormons was intentionally eugenic.


    Experience has long since taught mankind the necessity of observing certain natural laws in the propagation of animals, or the stock will degenerate and finally become extinct. But strange to say, in regard to the human animal, these laws, except in certain particulars, are more or less disregarded in these latter times...

    A well formed, healthy, vigorous race should be the end sought. …The ancient Spartans acted upon this policy, and the happy result was the production of a nation of the noblest men and women the world ever saw...

    Joseph Smith had penetration enough to know, that so long as the bodies of men are weak, degenerate, and tainted with impurities inherited from their fathers for a thousand generations, it is impossible to accomplish with them any great moral improvement, or indoctrinate them with many divine truths. Therefore, being divinely aided, he introduced a system……He taught that none but healthy men should marry–that a man should know his wife for the purpose of procreation and for that only–that he should keep himself apart from her during the carrying and nursing periods–that it is lawful and right, God commanding, for a man to have more than one wife...

    This theory is reduced to practice in Utah Territory; and it is remarked by immigrants passing through Salt Lake City, that the proportion of children is unusually great, and they are uncommonly robust and healthy. Who cannot see that the mental vigor of those children will be in proportion to their physical perfection?
     
    I lifed this from this blog: https://bycommonconsent.com/2006/08/02/eugenics/

    Replies: @Jack D, @stillCARealist, @Almost Missouri

    So maybe the Grecian ideal appealed to 19th century church elders after all. Though I can’t say as I’ve noticed Utah being a source of eugenic übermen.

    A friend of mine said that Utah had the prettiest girls, but when I visited him it didn’t make that impression on me. I did think many boys looked flabby and awkward, but more in the way of being malnourished and sedentary rather than being ill bred.

  244. Anonymous [AKA "jimmy john"] says:

    Mormonism is the OG prosperity gospel. Follow everything we say and you get your own planets and many wives etc. Look in any mormon church and the highest net worth individuals not only run the bishopric (the top lowel level leaders) but they are also revered. Be an accountant or dentist or lawyer and you are the cream of the crop. I have never encountered a blue collar type person with a huge role in the church. If only you pray more and pay more and stay more you can be like the upper middle class college educated people that run the country club.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @Anonymous

    Mormon leadership (educated businessmen) is the exact opposite of Jehovah's Witnesses leadership (uneducated hourly wage earners). The lack of US-based Polynesians in Mormon leadership roles is glaring.

    The wards/churches in Singapore are separated by residency status because western businessmen who were only in the country for a few years were taking leadership roles and telling the local LDS members what to do.

    A non-religious woman that I know attended BYU in the 80s as a scholarship athlete. Her roommate's father was a dentist and bishop. Back then missionaries were assigned to areas based on their parents income, so the roommate's brother did his mission in Alaska where he was required to pay for the use of a four-wheel drive vehicle since it would have been impossible to use a bicycle.

  245. @Anonymous
    Mormonism is the OG prosperity gospel. Follow everything we say and you get your own planets and many wives etc. Look in any mormon church and the highest net worth individuals not only run the bishopric (the top lowel level leaders) but they are also revered. Be an accountant or dentist or lawyer and you are the cream of the crop. I have never encountered a blue collar type person with a huge role in the church. If only you pray more and pay more and stay more you can be like the upper middle class college educated people that run the country club.

    Replies: @Triumph104

    Mormon leadership (educated businessmen) is the exact opposite of Jehovah’s Witnesses leadership (uneducated hourly wage earners). The lack of US-based Polynesians in Mormon leadership roles is glaring.

    The wards/churches in Singapore are separated by residency status because western businessmen who were only in the country for a few years were taking leadership roles and telling the local LDS members what to do.

    A non-religious woman that I know attended BYU in the 80s as a scholarship athlete. Her roommate’s father was a dentist and bishop. Back then missionaries were assigned to areas based on their parents income, so the roommate’s brother did his mission in Alaska where he was required to pay for the use of a four-wheel drive vehicle since it would have been impossible to use a bicycle.

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