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From The Guardian:
Scientists say mass tests in Italian town have halted Covid-19 there
A study in Vò, which saw Italy’s first death, points to the danger of asymptomatic carriers
Lorenzo Tondo in Palermo @lorenzo_tondo Wed 18 Mar 2020 16.30 EDT
The small town of Vò, in northern Italy, where the first coronavirus death occurred in the country, has become a case study that demonstrates how scientists might neutralise the spread of Covid-19.
A scientific study, rolled out by the University of Padua, with the help of the Veneto Region and the Red Cross, consisted of testing all 3,300 inhabitants of the town, including asymptomatic people. The goal was to study the natural history of the virus, the transmission dynamics and the categories at risk.
The researchers explained they had tested the inhabitants twice and that the study led to the discovery of the decisive role in the spread of the coronavirus epidemic of asymptomatic people.
When the study began, on 6 March, there were at least 90 infected in Vò. For days now, there have been no new cases.
“We were able to contain the outbreak here, because we identified and eliminated the ‘submerged’ infections and isolated them,” Andrea Crisanti, an infections expert at Imperial College London, who took part in the Vò project, told the Financial Times. “That is what makes the difference.”
The research allowed for the identification of at least six asymptomatic people who tested positive for Covid-19. ‘‘If these people had not been discovered,” said the researchers, they would probably have unknowingly infected other inhabitants.
“The percentage of infected people, even if asymptomatic, in the population is very high,” wrote Sergio Romagnani, professor of clinical immunology at the University of Florence, in a letter to the authorities. “The isolation of asymptomatics is essential to be able to control the spread of the virus and the severity of the disease.”
That’s universal testing plus lockdown. A big question is what can we do without lockdown?
State Department just issue a Level 4 Alert – Do Not Travel due to Corona:
State Department Issues Global Health Advisory: Level 4 – “Do Not Travel”
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/come-home-or-shelter-place-state-department-issues-travel-advisory-all-americans
Gov AmPsycho: Don’t panic or anything, but 55% of the state’s gonna get CV!
That’s almost a direct quote:
https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/3.18.20-Letter-USNS-Mercy-Hospital-Ship.pdf
Exempted from shutdown as an essential business: weed stores. Really.
3% of active NBA players have tested positive. But many players haven’t been tested. It appears that 13 players have tested positive out of 75 who’ve been tested, a 17.3% infection rate.Replies: @Anon7, @Mr. Anon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04XYyBqw118
So when Skynet goes online, it can monitor us for infectious diseases and take the proper action.
Asymptomatic carriers are the weapons of mass destruction. Unfortunately, even to test 1% of population in U.S. (3 million+ tests) requires an infrastructure that is barely feasibly, even with a war like effort, before end of April. So, we are doomed to retrace Italy curve for at least 5 more weeks, best case. Doubling every week, this means, at least a 32 fold increase.
We know the federal bureaucracy, in Jan/Feb, bungled development of the test and had erroneously decided to pursue a low volume mode based on the “patient to doctor relationship” rather than mass testing infrastructure. But that doesn’t explain the lack of action since late February. The spread became visibly widespread in Washington in late February and by then corona had the complete attention of the White House. At that point why didn’t the Trump administration order immediate adoption of whatever they are using in South Korea? It was only on March 13 that big announcements were made about partnering with the private sector to ramp up testing. That is 3 weeks of inaction during which the bureaucratic bottleneck was cleared.
What if the “test” was a fugazi? In reality, the goal of the government was to isolate certain people. Let’s say, perhaps, political dissidents.
Couldn’t they then devise a “test” that was merely theater? They would have a list of individuals who they deemed “positive or negative” ahead of time based on political considerations (e.g., linguistic semantic analysis of text messages, social media posts, phone transcripts). Then, a “positive” Co-Vid test would grant the authorities the power to arrest this individual.
Another option for them would be to infect the targeted dissident with a lethal cocktail (chemical or biological) at the moment of mandatory testing. A further variation would be to eliminate the individual once she was locked into the prison ship or quarantine hospital. The infection and virus itself would provide cover and plausible deniability for execution by other chemical means. Just in case, the remains could always be summarily cremated under the pretext of avoiding infection.
Not to recapitulate, but my point is that these benevolent governmental viral containment strategies seem to provide the perfect pretext and context for a semi-invisible political purge, unstoppable because of the taboo against speaking out against measures that nominally could save the lives of the biologically vulnerable.
Cordon off towns but do not lock everybody down within a town just the infected ones must be isolated and quarantined.
Steve, here is your potential hero white male:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/19/us/fastest-supercomputer-coronavirus-scn-trnd/index.html
Here is the researcher in question:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/micholas-smith-37731965
https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/UNUSED-3W.jpg?resize=1800,1200&w=1200Replies: @indocon
What if the “test” was a fugazi? If in reality, the goal of the government was to isolate certain people. Let’s say, perhaps, political dissidents.
Couldn’t they then devise a “test” that was merely theater? They would have a list of individuals whom they deemed “positive or negative” ahead of time based on political considerations (e.g., linguistic semantic analysis of text messages, social media posts, phone transcripts). Then, a “positive” Co-Vid test would grant the authorities the power to arrest this individual.
Another option for them would be to infect the targeted dissident with a lethal cocktail (chemical or biological) at the moment of mandatory testing. A further variation would be to eliminate the individual once she was locked into the prison ship or quarantine hospital. The infection and virus itself would provide cover and plausible deniability for execution by other chemical means. Just in case, the remains could always be summarily cremated under the pretext of avoiding infection.
Not to recapitulate, but my point is that these benevolent governmental viral containment strategies seem to provide the perfect pretext and context for a semi-invisible political purge, unstoppable because of the taboo against speaking out against measures that nominally could save the lives of the biologically vulnerable.
OT: The executive abilities of President Trump are astonishing.
But even clearer than that is that our globalist elites are not just evil but ... incompetent.
They couldn't even make even half-assed preparations for an obvious effect of their own globalist ideology. And when that effect happened they turned out to be incompetent even marshaling any kind of response. (They could however lecture us on bias--on that critical activity they are expert.)
The former are organized, efficient, quick, meticulous, and logical. The latter talk a good game, but seem to be struggling to implement the basics of epidemic management.
Asians come across as people who get stuff done, while Westerners come across as incompetent bullsh*tters.
You can't blame this on diversity either, since nearly all the adults in charge are White.
You can't even blame it on liberal politicians, as some of the most inept leaders are conservative (Boris Johnson, Donald Trump).Replies: @Ed, @Intelligent Dasein, @Anonymous
Every country where the virus has spread has eventually had to go to total lockdown anyway. Is there any advantage in delaying it? The disadvantage is lots of dead people.
In a way, many of us have been making the same mistake as Bernie / Biden supporters – namely, believing that the Federal is going to take care of us.
If we had fifty state governments and their associated public health departments all independently trying to put together working test kits, among other things, we’d be better off.
As it is, we’re now looking at Socialism in America; waiting for the Federal Government to provide money, and going to the store to find empty shelves.
Cordon off towns but do not lock everybody down within towns; just the infected ones must be isolated and quarantined.
If there’s universal lockdown, how do they know that the assumption infected people would have infected anyone else?
It does seem pretty obvious that of you identify and quarantine all carriers in a population that this would stop transmission at least temporarily even without a lockdown.
So what we do is: stay away from crowds and places with poor ventilation.
wear masks, wash your hands and gave and use sanitizer as appropriate and ramp up testing.
This thing isn’t measels. Even people in the same household or cruise ship cabin don’t all get infected.
I wish to denounce this in the strongest possible terms. If an agent of the state, after administering a test the operations of which you are not privy to and cannot question, can thereupon inform you that you have a virus which causes you no symptoms at all, but because you may infect someone else you must forfeit your freedom on pain of criminal penalties, then we have in place the perfect mechanism for the most capricious exercise of power ever attempted in our lifetime.
It must be remembered that projection, while a most overused retort on internet chat spaces, is nevertheless a real thing. It’s beginning to look like the longstanding obsession our cognoscenti have with recalling Hitler and concentration camps, even to the point of falsifying the historical record, is down to their secretly yearning all the while to arrogate such powers to themselves.
EXCEPT we have consented through our elective officials to take measures to ensure public health and safety. And in a time of WORLD crisis, our individual rights will be secondary to the needs of society at large.Replies: @dcthrowback, @Mr. Anon
Get out, Steve. Get out quick.
Governor Brown says 112% of Oregonians will be infected with corona-chan over a FOUR-week period. ~ tomorrow morning's breaking news
Governor Inslee says 224% of Washingtonians will be infected over a TWO-week period. ~ tomorrow afternoon's breaking news
Go Joe 2020!Replies: @Joe Stalin
So, the population of Vo is about 3400. They tested 3000. They got 66 positives. Maybe my math isn’t what it used to be, but isn’t that 2.2% INFECTION rate (not death)?
So in a town that was the dark and fetid epicenter of this black plague, where dark-robed figures pushing carts through the twilight intoned “bring out your dead”– in Italian, of course – they could only find 66 positives.
I’m not getting this. Flu kills between 12,000 and 61,000 people in the USA every year and nobody gives a rip, except oldsters who get a barely effectual “flu shot”. We get 171 deaths in the USA, of people close to death due to chronic bad health (no kids or young people, unlike flu) and the whole economy grinds to a halt.
Nah. This is BS all the way down. It’s a middle-weight pneumonia. The kind that tears through a couple of retirement homes once in a while. No fun if you get it but not the Big One™.
For clarity. I’m not denying there is a virus, I’m questioning the ridiculous overreaching response.
Pro comment beginning to end. But you forgot the solipsism of BOOMER LOGICS:
If I am sickly and vulnerable to death by sniffles, EVERYONE must be quarantined at gunpoint!
Quarantine thineself, boomer, for The Duration. We'll leave cases of Ensure and Bud Light Platinum on your doorstep.
Is it too late? Let’s lock it down! I was demoralized by the Imperial College paper but this gives me hope:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
Are we smart enough to do what they’re doing in Japan, Korea, and China?
I don’t get it Steve. Are we supposed to test EVERYBODY day after day after day?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-51866102
Which will be harder to carry out in a less authoritarian, less cohesive society.
Probably depends on how good people are at maintaining social distance.
Get out, Steve. Get out quick.Replies: @Alfa158, @Stealth, @Je Suis Omar Mateen
If the California political and social climate didn’t drive Steve out, then even a comparatively minor inconvenience like The Bubonic Plague won’t dig him out either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjjTCxI0OjEReplies: @vhrm, @Alfa158
Universal testing, then as new infections slow, contact tracing.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-51866102
Which will be harder to carry out in a less authoritarian, less cohesive society.
Kevin Durant tested positive and said he does not have any symptoms at all. Same goes for Idris Elba. Tom Hanks didn’t have too many symptoms either, he didn’t have a fever, just some body aches and a little tired. His wife had a low fever.
This just in . . . Trump approves Hydroxychloroquine as a Coronavirus treatment after a promising study comes out.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/huge-breaking-news-president-trump-announces-chloroquine-will-be-made-available-immediately-has-shown-very-very-encouraging-early-results-video/
This may be another example of the “Tucker effect” as last night the drug study results were featured on Tucker’s show.
Giving everyone a medical test every day until the pandemic is contained sounds expensive. Let’s just lock everybody in their homes forever.
. . . and adequate testing!!!!
Steve, I think you do realize it but at the low chance that you don’t, I can’t resist:
Claims that being able to identify infection spreaders and shun away from them helps to halt epidemics are about as surprising as the claim that figuring out Pythagorean theorem helps in engineering. Something about leper communities – does it ring any bells for anyone?
Well, Vò do do de oh duh…
Experience speaks.
Story:
About the time of Trump's election I had two S. Koreans I was working with. Both friendly, both competent, both doing as well as they had intended to.
Trump campaign comes along, and both _in the same week_ beocme strongly anti-American. One hires a black assistant and very nearly embarasses the guy to death by PDAs during business hours. He later stopped working there. She also starts talking about "racial discrimination" in the old Deep South.
Other person starts talking about "racist" immigration policies and how seriously he disliked the Americans he'd grown up among.
_Same week_.
A bit later we started getting blacks _acting as radical blacks_ and organizationally acting as reformers (we had a black executive at the time). Hostile, sure of themselves, noticeably half bright. Previously the blacks had contented themselves with mass coordinated dancing (all black) during office parties, no overt hostility and surface amiability.
So now I don't pay much attention to surface amiability. Maybe I'm growing up -- a process I'd recommend to everybody.
So in a town that was the dark and fetid epicenter of this black plague, where dark-robed figures pushing carts through the twilight intoned "bring out your dead"– in Italian, of course – they could only find 66 positives.
I'm not getting this. Flu kills between 12,000 and 61,000 people in the USA every year and nobody gives a rip, except oldsters who get a barely effectual "flu shot". We get 171 deaths in the USA, of people close to death due to chronic bad health (no kids or young people, unlike flu) and the whole economy grinds to a halt.
Nah. This is BS all the way down. It's a middle-weight pneumonia. The kind that tears through a couple of retirement homes once in a while. No fun if you get it but not the Big One™.
For clarity. I'm not denying there is a virus, I'm questioning the ridiculous overreaching response.Replies: @Stealth, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @J.Ross, @Ed
You ask too many questions, peon. Don’t you understand the concept of doubling time and all that noise?
“That’s universal testing plus lockdown. A big question is what can we do without lockdown?”
Lock thineself down, boomer. And leave life to the living.
We’ll let you know when it’s safe to come out.
Love,
Generation X and the Millennials
A non-story. Somehow the tests were incomplete – one of the necessary reagents was not shipped along with the test strips. This is not Mossad’s area of expertise. They expect to have the missing solution by tomorrow. The kits are coming in from the Gulf. Israel has no formal relations with the Emirates but they have good relations and the kits were purchased with the knowledge of the selling states, with Mossad used to preserve nominal deniability.
Get out, Steve. Get out quick.Replies: @Alfa158, @Stealth, @Je Suis Omar Mateen
I take this situation VERY seriously, but come on, fifty six percent? That’s sensationalist bullshit.
So in a town that was the dark and fetid epicenter of this black plague, where dark-robed figures pushing carts through the twilight intoned "bring out your dead"– in Italian, of course – they could only find 66 positives.
I'm not getting this. Flu kills between 12,000 and 61,000 people in the USA every year and nobody gives a rip, except oldsters who get a barely effectual "flu shot". We get 171 deaths in the USA, of people close to death due to chronic bad health (no kids or young people, unlike flu) and the whole economy grinds to a halt.
Nah. This is BS all the way down. It's a middle-weight pneumonia. The kind that tears through a couple of retirement homes once in a while. No fun if you get it but not the Big One™.
For clarity. I'm not denying there is a virus, I'm questioning the ridiculous overreaching response.Replies: @Stealth, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @J.Ross, @Ed
“This is BS all the way down. It’s a middle-weight pneumonia. The kind that tears through a couple of retirement homes once in a while.”
Pro comment beginning to end. But you forgot the solipsism of BOOMER LOGICS:
If I am sickly and vulnerable to death by sniffles, EVERYONE must be quarantined at gunpoint!
Quarantine thineself, boomer, for The Duration. We’ll leave cases of Ensure and Bud Light Platinum on your doorstep.
Get out, Steve. Get out quick.Replies: @Alfa158, @Stealth, @Je Suis Omar Mateen
“BREAKING: Gov. Newsom says 56% of Californians are expected to be infected with coronavirus over an eight week period.”
Governor Brown says 112% of Oregonians will be infected with corona-chan over a FOUR-week period. ~ tomorrow morning’s breaking news
Governor Inslee says 224% of Washingtonians will be infected over a TWO-week period. ~ tomorrow afternoon’s breaking news
Go Joe 2020!
Yes.
https://images.salsify.com/image/upload/s--NTuc62_O--/vggzd6ipgamvwive8wdl.jpg
What we’ll need to crush the outbreak is universal testing plus a temporary lockdown (six weeks, maybe).
A new paper from Wuhan says that tests are over half false positive (86 percent or so). I guess as long as you have hospital beds, and are willing to subject false-positive “patients” to high risk of infection in a Wuflu facility, you still are on the way to eliminating the disease.
I think there are various types of tests, ranging from litmus-style reagent tests that just narrow things down, on up to sequencing the virus, which is 100 percent accurate. In practice, the less accurate, cheaper, faster tests are involved in these mass testing conversations.
Is there some way the rich and famous without symptoms have access to tests that people in the general population with symptoms can’t get?
It must be remembered that projection, while a most overused retort on internet chat spaces, is nevertheless a real thing. It's beginning to look like the longstanding obsession our cognoscenti have with recalling Hitler and concentration camps, even to the point of falsifying the historical record, is down to their secretly yearning all the while to arrogate such powers to themselves.Replies: @Corvinus, @HA
“If an agent of the state, after administering a test the operations of which you are not privy to and cannot question, can thereupon inform you that you have a virus which causes you no symptoms at all, but because you may infect someone else you must forfeit your freedom on pain of criminal penalties, then we have in place the perfect mechanism for the most capricious exercise of power ever attempted in our lifetime.”
EXCEPT we have consented through our elective officials to take measures to ensure public health and safety. And in a time of WORLD crisis, our individual rights will be secondary to the needs of society at large.
And we have not consented. You are a worm and consent to everything.
I have'nt consented. A lot of people haven't.Replies: @Corvinus
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
Are we smart enough to do what they're doing in Japan, Korea, and China?Replies: @duh
Tomas Pueyo’s articles in Medium are the most informative I’ve read.
It’s really starting to look like total complete utter bullshit.
Hard to believe, because supposedly they’re losing trillions of dollars a day (they tell us), but, apparently: ““There may be only two people who died from coronavirus in Italy, who did not present other pathologies.”
“Translation into non-medical language: the people dying in Italy have other very serious traditional diseases that have nothing to do with COV, and it’s obvious they could have died, and probably did die, from those other diseases. Nevertheless, we’re locking down the whole country.”
https://personalliberty.com/corona-bologna-italy-the-truth-begins-to-leak-out/
Quoting this official source, released by the Italian Institute of Public Health (those famed conspiracy-mongers).
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.agenzianova.com%2Fa%2F5e6bcf1da7fbe3.23491954%2F2851060%2F2020-03-13%2Fcoronavirus-iss-in-italia-i-decessi-accertati-finora-per-causa-del-covid-19-sono-solo-due
That’s not what it means at all. It means that underlying conditions are exacerbated by the CV. Otherwise they would have survived. If you think that Italy has just had a normal week, you haven’t been paying attention.
State Department Issues Global Health Advisory: Level 4 - "Do Not Travel"
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/come-home-or-shelter-place-state-department-issues-travel-advisory-all-americansReplies: @Lot, @The Alarmist
California has state-wide shelter in place order!
Gov AmPsycho: Don’t panic or anything, but 55% of the state’s gonna get CV!
That’s almost a direct quote:
https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/3.18.20-Letter-USNS-Mercy-Hospital-Ship.pdf
Exempted from shutdown as an essential business: weed stores. Really.
3% of active NBA players have tested positive. But many players haven’t been tested. It appears that 13 players have tested positive out of 75 who’ve been tested, a 17.3% infection rate.
EXCEPT we have consented through our elective officials to take measures to ensure public health and safety. And in a time of WORLD crisis, our individual rights will be secondary to the needs of society at large.Replies: @dcthrowback, @Mr. Anon
almost never agree with Corvinus the Contradictor, but I do here
So in a town that was the dark and fetid epicenter of this black plague, where dark-robed figures pushing carts through the twilight intoned "bring out your dead"– in Italian, of course – they could only find 66 positives.
I'm not getting this. Flu kills between 12,000 and 61,000 people in the USA every year and nobody gives a rip, except oldsters who get a barely effectual "flu shot". We get 171 deaths in the USA, of people close to death due to chronic bad health (no kids or young people, unlike flu) and the whole economy grinds to a halt.
Nah. This is BS all the way down. It's a middle-weight pneumonia. The kind that tears through a couple of retirement homes once in a while. No fun if you get it but not the Big One™.
For clarity. I'm not denying there is a virus, I'm questioning the ridiculous overreaching response.Replies: @Stealth, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @J.Ross, @Ed
Agreement, going by deaths the “normal flu” has already killed significantly more this year.
We can shut down the country, impose martial law, wreck the economy … because there’s a bug around that’s bit worse than ususal and gotta save the 60s generation cuz they really looked after their White descendants.
But we can’t use these measures to kick out the 30 million illegal aliens?
You’ve been cucked again.
Gov AmPsycho: Don’t panic or anything, but 55% of the state’s gonna get CV!
That’s almost a direct quote:
https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/3.18.20-Letter-USNS-Mercy-Hospital-Ship.pdf
Exempted from shutdown as an essential business: weed stores. Really.
3% of active NBA players have tested positive. But many players haven’t been tested. It appears that 13 players have tested positive out of 75 who’ve been tested, a 17.3% infection rate.Replies: @Anon7, @Mr. Anon
Basketball is a close contact sport with plenty of hand contact, played in shorts and a t-shirt. Also, all of the players actively pass around an object in common – the ball.
We need to try these two for treason:
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-republican-senator-burr-unloaded-stocks-after-downplaying-risk-2020-3
https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/georgia-senator-dumped-stocks-after-private-meeting-on-coronavirus-report/
Society is close to breaking down. The French Revolution started over less.
Speaking of tests, can we audit all the congressmen to determine how they got to be multimillionaires on their only slightly more than average salaries?
Agree.
True.
But even clearer than that is that our globalist elites are not just evil but … incompetent.
They couldn’t even make even half-assed preparations for an obvious effect of their own globalist ideology. And when that effect happened they turned out to be incompetent even marshaling any kind of response. (They could however lecture us on bias–on that critical activity they are expert.)
EXCEPT we have consented through our elective officials to take measures to ensure public health and safety. And in a time of WORLD crisis, our individual rights will be secondary to the needs of society at large.Replies: @dcthrowback, @Mr. Anon
“Elected officials”, dipstick. Not “elective officials”. Idiot.
And we have not consented. You are a worm and consent to everything.
I have’nt consented. A lot of people haven’t.
Of course we have consented. That is part of being an American citizen. Do you adhere to the laws of our land? Do you expect government officials to do likewise? Do you demand that your fellow citizens respect your property and rights, lest their be consequences? Of course you do. That is part of consent to be governed.
"You are a worm and consent to everything."
Then tens of millions of Americans are worms from your silly perspective.
"I have’nt consented".
Then you are an enemy to representative democracy.
"A lot of people haven't".
Sources?
Gov AmPsycho: Don’t panic or anything, but 55% of the state’s gonna get CV!
That’s almost a direct quote:
https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/3.18.20-Letter-USNS-Mercy-Hospital-Ship.pdf
Exempted from shutdown as an essential business: weed stores. Really.
3% of active NBA players have tested positive. But many players haven’t been tested. It appears that 13 players have tested positive out of 75 who’ve been tested, a 17.3% infection rate.Replies: @Anon7, @Mr. Anon
Gavin Newsom must have copied off of Mara Gay’s math test:
Upwards in the article he states that the existing capacity if 78,000 beds. So about 100,000 beds would be needed.
But 20% of 56% of 40 million people is……………..about 4.5 million.
And, as always, Obey Covid!:
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/obey-covid-19-global-lockdown-disaster-capitalism
Perhaps he means that any given time, 100,000 beds will be needed. However, 4.5 million people will need to be hospitalized at some point before a vaccine is found within the next 12-18 months.
If you assume the average patient is hospitalized for 10 days, then the math works.
Perhaps, after you get the virus, it may take a while before it puts you in the hospital. Or it may happen quickly. Depends on the individual's immune response.
I have no idea if the above is actually true. It's just my conjecture, based on his statements.
Presumably, when Governor Newsom made the decisions, he was being advised by much smarter (and more numerate) epidemiologists and physicians.
Presumably.
That’s not enough. Everyone needs to hide in his closet with a plastic bag over his head and hold his breath for two weeks.
Only then, we will all be safe.
Happy Vernal Equinox to all! Fourteen minutes ago, the earliest spring, or fall, since 1896.
It must be remembered that projection, while a most overused retort on internet chat spaces, is nevertheless a real thing. It's beginning to look like the longstanding obsession our cognoscenti have with recalling Hitler and concentration camps, even to the point of falsifying the historical record, is down to their secretly yearning all the while to arrogate such powers to themselves.Replies: @Corvinus, @HA
“If an agent of the state, after administering a test…can thereupon inform you that you have a virus which causes you no symptoms at all, but because you may infect someone else you must forfeit your freedom on pain of criminal penalties, then we have in place the perfect mechanism for the most capricious exercise of power ever attempted in our lifetime.”
Been there, done that — look up “Typhoid Mary”. Or this guy, if you want to see how a state that supposedly cares about its citizens (or so I hear) does in such circumstances.
Moreover, in the case of coronovirus, the courts would likely strike down holding anyone for more than two weeks, which I understand is how long it takes for the symptoms to show up, (though if you still don’t believe you’re sick, it then becomes however long it takes you to get well — or not). That’s more than the 48 or 24 hours that police are already able to hold you, depending on the probable cause and depending on the jurisdiction, but it’s not a one-way ticket to Gitmo either. The percentage of false positives for this test will also play a key role, I expect.
Claims that being able to identify infection spreaders and shun away from them helps to halt epidemics are about as surprising as the claim that figuring out Pythagorean theorem helps in engineering. Something about leper communities - does it ring any bells for anyone?Replies: @Anonymous
What does this paragraph even mean?
90 infected out of a tested population of 3,300? That is an incidence rate of only 2.7%. Is that not exceedingly small? What am I missing here Steve?
Even a blind Crow will chance upon carrion.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/19/us/fastest-supercomputer-coronavirus-scn-trnd/index.html
Here is the researcher in question:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/micholas-smith-37731965Replies: @Lurker
I believe a movie is being rushed into production. Of course one or two very slight changes may have to be made. . .
https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/UNUSED-3W.jpg?resize=1800,1200&w=1200
Steve is dug in like an Alabama tick.
as an illustration of what this Bay Area shelter-in-place order is. (i failed)Replies: @anon
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sexual+Tyrannosaurus+rex&&view=detail&mid=755882037FD37EBA2E81755882037FD37EBA2E81&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsexual%2BTyrannosaurus%2Brex%26FORM%3DHDRSC3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjjTCxI0OjEReplies: @vhrm, @Alfa158
oh man, a few days ago i was trying to find and post a clip of them panicking and lighting up the jungle full-auto
as an illustration of what this Bay Area shelter-in-place order is. (i failed)
Ya mean this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgzxSr6l9Y4Replies: @vhrm
It’s hard to discern what he’s saying.
Perhaps he means that any given time, 100,000 beds will be needed. However, 4.5 million people will need to be hospitalized at some point before a vaccine is found within the next 12-18 months.
If you assume the average patient is hospitalized for 10 days, then the math works.
Perhaps, after you get the virus, it may take a while before it puts you in the hospital. Or it may happen quickly. Depends on the individual’s immune response.
I have no idea if the above is actually true. It’s just my conjecture, based on his statements.
Presumably, when Governor Newsom made the decisions, he was being advised by much smarter (and more numerate) epidemiologists and physicians.
Presumably.
If you look at how the epidemic has been handled in different parts of the world, a huge divergence is evident between the hyper competent East Asians (Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Taiwanese) and incompetent Westerners (Americans, Anglos, and continental Euros).
The former are organized, efficient, quick, meticulous, and logical. The latter talk a good game, but seem to be struggling to implement the basics of epidemic management.
Asians come across as people who get stuff done, while Westerners come across as incompetent bullsh*tters.
You can’t blame this on diversity either, since nearly all the adults in charge are White.
You can’t even blame it on liberal politicians, as some of the most inept leaders are conservative (Boris Johnson, Donald Trump).
We've been plunged into emergency theater by spineless conformists with no vision, principle, or intelligence, and who are terrified that the Chinese government has bigger dicks than they do. So passes Western hegemony.
Couldn't they then devise a "test" that was merely theater? They would have a list of individuals who they deemed "positive or negative" ahead of time based on political considerations (e.g., linguistic semantic analysis of text messages, social media posts, phone transcripts). Then, a "positive" Co-Vid test would grant the authorities the power to arrest this individual.
Another option for them would be to infect the targeted dissident with a lethal cocktail (chemical or biological) at the moment of mandatory testing. A further variation would be to eliminate the individual once she was locked into the prison ship or quarantine hospital. The infection and virus itself would provide cover and plausible deniability for execution by other chemical means. Just in case, the remains could always be summarily cremated under the pretext of avoiding infection.
Not to recapitulate, but my point is that these benevolent governmental viral containment strategies seem to provide the perfect pretext and context for a semi-invisible political purge, unstoppable because of the taboo against speaking out against measures that nominally could save the lives of the biologically vulnerable.Replies: @Kim
Batflu is a diversion to distract the public while the Fed shovels trillions more into the infinitely greedy maw of Wall Street and Big Corp, as is happening at this very moment.
as an illustration of what this Bay Area shelter-in-place order is. (i failed)Replies: @anon
oh man, a few days ago i was trying to find and post a clip of them panicking and lighting up the jungle full-auto
Ya mean this one?
The former are organized, efficient, quick, meticulous, and logical. The latter talk a good game, but seem to be struggling to implement the basics of epidemic management.
Asians come across as people who get stuff done, while Westerners come across as incompetent bullsh*tters.
You can't blame this on diversity either, since nearly all the adults in charge are White.
You can't even blame it on liberal politicians, as some of the most inept leaders are conservative (Boris Johnson, Donald Trump).Replies: @Ed, @Intelligent Dasein, @Anonymous
Deaths in the UK and the US are relatively low. In the US they appear concentrated in Washington which has 1/3 of them. Even Cali has a low number of deaths with 19 at the time of this comment.
So in a town that was the dark and fetid epicenter of this black plague, where dark-robed figures pushing carts through the twilight intoned "bring out your dead"– in Italian, of course – they could only find 66 positives.
I'm not getting this. Flu kills between 12,000 and 61,000 people in the USA every year and nobody gives a rip, except oldsters who get a barely effectual "flu shot". We get 171 deaths in the USA, of people close to death due to chronic bad health (no kids or young people, unlike flu) and the whole economy grinds to a halt.
Nah. This is BS all the way down. It's a middle-weight pneumonia. The kind that tears through a couple of retirement homes once in a while. No fun if you get it but not the Big One™.
For clarity. I'm not denying there is a virus, I'm questioning the ridiculous overreaching response.Replies: @Stealth, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @J.Ross, @Ed
You’re not alone in questioning it.
Ya mean this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgzxSr6l9Y4Replies: @vhrm
Yes!
(not one but TWO future governors in that scene!)
But, yeah… that was the Bay Area politicos early this week.
Gov. Newsom and the New York tri-state area then did their version on Thursday.
Why hasn’t anybody bothered to counter here that a lot of middle aged and even Americans in their 20s have Syndrome X, basically a combination of obesity, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, how will this affect coronavirus death rates among this age demographic?
Stressing that it is almost impossible to make comparisons country to country, because each government is taking a different approach to how they record cases, he said that, “South Korean tests are 10 times more sensitive than in Italy. If Italy measured cases like Korea, there would have been 10 times more cases.”
“I don’t believe the numbers in Israel, not because they’re made up, but because the definition of a case in Israel keeps changing and it’s hard to evaluate the numbers that way,” Levitt said.
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Nobel-laureate-Israel-will-have-no-more-than-ten-coronavirus-deaths-621407
"I don't believe the numbers in Israel, not because they're made up, but because the definition of a case in Israel keeps changing and it's hard to evaluate the numbers that way," Levitt said.
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Nobel-laureate-Israel-will-have-no-more-than-ten-coronavirus-deaths-621407Replies: @Steve Sailer, @LondonBob
I’d add that these are arcane methodological issues and you can’t usually guess from general stereotypes about a nation how their medical statisticians handle the numbers.
Great. A “lost puppy” picture of a woman packaged with an admonition that you stop protecting yourself.
Story:
About the time of Trump’s election I had two S. Koreans I was working with. Both friendly, both competent, both doing as well as they had intended to.
Trump campaign comes along, and both _in the same week_ beocme strongly anti-American. One hires a black assistant and very nearly embarasses the guy to death by PDAs during business hours. He later stopped working there. She also starts talking about “racial discrimination” in the old Deep South.
Other person starts talking about “racist” immigration policies and how seriously he disliked the Americans he’d grown up among.
_Same week_.
A bit later we started getting blacks _acting as radical blacks_ and organizationally acting as reformers (we had a black executive at the time). Hostile, sure of themselves, noticeably half bright. Previously the blacks had contented themselves with mass coordinated dancing (all black) during office parties, no overt hostility and surface amiability.
So now I don’t pay much attention to surface amiability. Maybe I’m growing up — a process I’d recommend to everybody.
State Department Issues Global Health Advisory: Level 4 - "Do Not Travel"
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/come-home-or-shelter-place-state-department-issues-travel-advisory-all-americansReplies: @Lot, @The Alarmist
American Distress … Don’t Leave Home !!!
Please explain the process you envision for “universal testing.” How does that work exactly? What kind of tests?
What, precisely, did they do wrong?
They committed economic crimes against the People!
You mean provide psychological and medical counseling, deliver groceries, and dispatch a carebot, right?
Used privileged info regarding stock sales. Even if not illegal it makes the market look fixed for the well connected. People are losing jobs so the outrage at million dollar sales is well deserved .
But those guys are our “duly-elected representatives”, so by definition (according to Corvinious), whatever they do is up and up legitimate.
Speaking of tests, can we audit all the congressmen to determine how they got to be multimillionaires on their only slightly more than average salaries?
To avoid such confusion in the future, just put ol’ Corvy on ignore.
"I don't believe the numbers in Israel, not because they're made up, but because the definition of a case in Israel keeps changing and it's hard to evaluate the numbers that way," Levitt said.
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Nobel-laureate-Israel-will-have-no-more-than-ten-coronavirus-deaths-621407Replies: @Steve Sailer, @LondonBob
Interesting so Levitt basically agrees with the analysis of the economist I read who thinks Italy is peaking on the 21st. His guess of there being ten times the number of confirmed cases seems reasonable enough too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjjTCxI0OjEReplies: @vhrm, @Alfa158
Yes, and it less well known, but Steve is at the same time also a sexual Tyrannosaurus.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sexual+Tyrannosaurus+rex&&view=detail&mid=755882037FD37EBA2E81755882037FD37EBA2E81&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsexual%2BTyrannosaurus%2Brex%26FORM%3DHDRSC3
Governor Brown says 112% of Oregonians will be infected with corona-chan over a FOUR-week period. ~ tomorrow morning's breaking news
Governor Inslee says 224% of Washingtonians will be infected over a TWO-week period. ~ tomorrow afternoon's breaking news
Go Joe 2020!Replies: @Joe Stalin
“Go Joe 2020!”
Yes.
The former are organized, efficient, quick, meticulous, and logical. The latter talk a good game, but seem to be struggling to implement the basics of epidemic management.
Asians come across as people who get stuff done, while Westerners come across as incompetent bullsh*tters.
You can't blame this on diversity either, since nearly all the adults in charge are White.
You can't even blame it on liberal politicians, as some of the most inept leaders are conservative (Boris Johnson, Donald Trump).Replies: @Ed, @Intelligent Dasein, @Anonymous
I truly believe that’s what this draconian response is all about. China put a quick stop to the virus. Western politicians (especially Americans in an election year) are terrified of corona ripping through a nursing home, killing a few dozen wealthy likely voters, and being compared unfavorably to the Chinese, so they’re engaging in this excessive dick-wagging trying to show that they’re on top of it.
We’ve been plunged into emergency theater by spineless conformists with no vision, principle, or intelligence, and who are terrified that the Chinese government has bigger dicks than they do. So passes Western hegemony.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyv9HYcFb_oReplies: @Joe Stalin
Perhaps this is fake news with fabricated vid and pix. Or perhaps it is accurate. I do not know. The vid of Italians in plastic “space helmets” looks pretty real to me.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/coronavirus-patients-apocalypse-ward-gasp-21723273
The former are organized, efficient, quick, meticulous, and logical. The latter talk a good game, but seem to be struggling to implement the basics of epidemic management.
Asians come across as people who get stuff done, while Westerners come across as incompetent bullsh*tters.
You can't blame this on diversity either, since nearly all the adults in charge are White.
You can't even blame it on liberal politicians, as some of the most inept leaders are conservative (Boris Johnson, Donald Trump).Replies: @Ed, @Intelligent Dasein, @Anonymous
What exactly are “the basics of epidemic management”?
Everyone in the US gets tested once a month until the disease is essentially eradicated.
And we have not consented. You are a worm and consent to everything.
I have'nt consented. A lot of people haven't.Replies: @Corvinus
“And we have not consented.”
Of course we have consented. That is part of being an American citizen. Do you adhere to the laws of our land? Do you expect government officials to do likewise? Do you demand that your fellow citizens respect your property and rights, lest their be consequences? Of course you do. That is part of consent to be governed.
“You are a worm and consent to everything.”
Then tens of millions of Americans are worms from your silly perspective.
“I have’nt consented”.
Then you are an enemy to representative democracy.
“A lot of people haven’t”.
Sources?
“Italy is peaking on the 21st” – It does not look like. Daily increments are still increasing. The curves of total cases and total fatalities are still convex and no sign of inflection point.
Agreed! Why is the petition not taking off? Why isn’t this article going viral on Twitter? Argh!
Hard to believe, because supposedly they're losing trillions of dollars a day (they tell us), but, apparently: "“There may be only two people who died from coronavirus in Italy, who did not present other pathologies."
"Translation into non-medical language: the people dying in Italy have other very serious traditional diseases that have nothing to do with COV, and it’s obvious they could have died, and probably did die, from those other diseases. Nevertheless, we’re locking down the whole country."
https://personalliberty.com/corona-bologna-italy-the-truth-begins-to-leak-out/
Quoting this official source, released by the Italian Institute of Public Health (those famed conspiracy-mongers).
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.agenzianova.com%2Fa%2F5e6bcf1da7fbe3.23491954%2F2851060%2F2020-03-13%2Fcoronavirus-iss-in-italia-i-decessi-accertati-finora-per-causa-del-covid-19-sono-solo-dueReplies: @Eugene Norman
Translation into non-medical language: the people dying in Italy have other very serious traditional diseases that have nothing to do with COV, and it’s obvious they could have died, and probably did die, from those other diseases. Nevertheless, we’re locking down the whole country.”
That’s not what it means at all. It means that underlying conditions are exacerbated by the CV. Otherwise they would have survived. If you think that Italy has just had a normal week, you haven’t been paying attention.
https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/UNUSED-3W.jpg?resize=1800,1200&w=1200Replies: @indocon
hahaha…nah, I think this crazy time will get the black hair stories of the front page.
“What, precisely, did they do wrong?”
They committed economic crimes against the People!
“A big question is what can we do without lockdown?”
Very little.