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From the New York Times:

Central Americans, ‘Scared of What’s Happening’ in U.S., Stay Put
By KIRK SEMPLE JULY 3, 2017

CHOLOMA, Honduras — His bags were packed, and the smuggler was ready. If all went well, Eswin Josué Fuentes figured he and his 10-year-old daughter would slip into the United States within days.

Then, the night before he planned to leave, he had a phone conversation with a Honduran friend living illegally in New York. Under President Trump, the friend warned, the United States was no longer a place for undocumented migrants.

Shaken, Mr. Fuentes abruptly ditched his plans in May and decided to stay here in Honduras, despite its unrelenting violence and poverty. He even passed up the $12,000 in smuggler fees that his sister in the United States had lined up for the journey.

“I got scared of what’s happening there,” Mr. Fuentes said.

While some of Mr. Trump’s most ambitious plans to tighten the border are still a long way off, particularly his campaign pledge to build a massive wall, his hard-line approach to immigration already seems to have led to sharp declines in the flow of migrants from Central America bound for the United States.

From February through May, the number of undocumented immigrants stopped or caught along the southwest border of the United States fell 60 percent from the same period last year, according to United States Customs and Border Protection — evidence that far fewer migrants are heading north, officials on both sides of the border say. …

Migrant smugglers in Honduras say their business has dried up since Mr. Trump took office.

Remember when the New York Times went on and on for eight years about Barack Obama was the Deporter-in-Chief? Yet illiterate Hondurans could figure out better whose side Obama was on — Americans or foreigners? Funny how that worked …

 
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  1. UIA says:

    “Education on the value of free speech and the other freedoms reserved by the Bill of Rights, about what happens when you don’t have them, and about how to exercise and protect them, should be an essential prerequisite for being an American citizen…” Sagan

    US is like a Trump University grift. No sense being a citizen if it’s the same as being a grifter. Paul had a generous operation.

    The fact is that the average man’s love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty — and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies.
    Baltimore Evening Sun (12 February 1923)

    The Saint is increasingly taking the law into his own hands, deciding whether or not murdererous gangsters should be handed over to the police or simply executed on the spot.
    In The Gold Standard, Templar, now back in England, is on the trail of the man who murdered a modern-day alchemist. https://followthesaint.wordpress.com/2015/04/26/once-more-the-saint-the-saint-and-mr-teal-1933/

    I have a safe job. The law is $1500.00 an hour lawyers. Nice work if you can get it. The clients are people with unsafe jobs. Farewell chumps. Hand them over and save the time, which is money. Corrupt politicians have made time debt and should do time in a locked safe.

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  2. Makes you wonder if Obama and his fellow travelers ever heard the word No.

    Announcing and enforcing a simple policy, as Trump has done, would seem to be a basic governmental function. Hondurans, and even NY Times readers, will pay attention when the message and messenger are credible.

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  3. Whatever shall we do without another fifty million third-world immigrants to go with the hundred million we’ve already imported? Oh Rhett, whatever shall we do?

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  4. UIA says:

    For the good of all men, and the love of one woman, he fought to uphold justice by breaking the law.
    Maid Marian: There’s a price on your head.
    Robin of Locksley: How much?
    Maid Marian: One hundred gold pieces.
    Robin of Locksley: Is that all? I shall have to annoy the good Sheriff more. Soon it will be a thousand.
    Maid Marian: For a thousand, I would turn you in myself. Nottingham is mounting an army. He has every blacksmith in the county hold up in the castle making swords and armour.
    Robin of Locksley: What is he planning?
    Maid Marian: I don’t know. But there’s no limit to the man’s ambitions. Go!

    She put me up to it. We’re blaming it on Rio. She keeps saying I don’t know. I don’t say anything. I just do what she tells me needs done. I married a witch for better or worse. If she sells me to the law, I’ll still love her.

    Robin of Locksley: Do you yield?
    Friar Tuck: I’d rather roast in hell.
    The law will freeze your assets, so it’s a colder war with higher yields for investors. Higher debt is hell. Trump is the king of debt, so expect a roasting. All the cash burned up in the fire. Silver dollars melted. Money is the easiest thing to lose. The law was no help. Gave the VFC the last $100.00 bill. That was stashed in the freezer. Plastic cards are long gone.

    If your house burns down, rescue the dogs. At least they’ll be faithful to you.
    Lee Marvin

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  5. Thank god, we don’t have Hillary in office to go full Merkel on us.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    Yes. As underwhelming as Trump has been, at his worst he is a thousand times better than Hillary at her best.

    Today, in honor of the Fourth, I am partaking of that quintessential American ritual - loitering in a large, air-conditioned store with nary an intention of buying anything.

    I'm sitting in Barnes & Noble - yes, there are still a few around. I'm on the second-floor balcony, near the down escalator.

    The escalator is out of order, as it was the last time I came here. That was ... oh, at least a year ago.

    (Has it been a year already? Yes, I guess it has. There was a time when I went to Barnes, Borders, and/or Waldenbooks at least two or three times a week. Hell, I even went to B. Dalton's a couple of times a year.)

    There was an open table in the cafe, but the guy sitting nearest that table reeked of B.O. His stench was overwhelming.

    I remember when this store opened. It was over twenty years ago. At the time, it seemed so new and so big and so chock-full of fascinating reading material. It still seems big (about the size of an mall department store), and it's clean enough, but it doesn't have that aura of being the central repository of the intellectual universe that it had in 1997.

    The shelves are untidy and the labels are misleading. (Under "Transportation," I found oversized picture books celebrating the 30th anniversary of the WWF.) The magazine area is a train wreck.

    The store is getting decent foot traffic, but half of the folks are staring at their phones or laptops and the other half are wandering around aimlessly. Only a few seem to be browsing the shelves and buying books.

    I wonder if this store will still be in business five years from now. It's a retail survivor, having outlived all of its competitors. But even the hardiest of dinosaurs can survive in this harshest of climates for only so long.

    (That being said, it is boiling hot outside.)

    Happy Fourth, everyone.

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  6. Eat a rotted turnip or whatever it was in that scene left rotting in the field, Miss Scarlett.

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  7. Glory hallelujah!

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  8. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Trump can amp up on that and tweet that henceforth illegals will be shipped to Guantanamo. To prove he is not bluffing, he can even ship a few MS-13 to Gitmo. Info will travel underground that the terrorists are beheading illegals and that will stop the flow in a jiffy.

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  9. Yep, let’s just hope the laws can catch up to the reputation. Right now these people are worried about coming – that is well and good. However, let’s get the border under control one way or another before the word spreads that not much has really changed (yet, I hope!)

    No matter what the judges block or congress fails to commit to, it’s some high-profile acts that Trump could get Mr. Sessions to take care of, that will keep this fear of invading going. How about just a mass arrest of all admitted illegal aliens at the next rally? Just come in with about 50 ICE transport vans, and do it!

    Next, start denying official entry to any Mexican diplomats that are known to be involved in America’s political process.

    There’s lots of things that the justice department could do RIGHT NOW, were Trump to just give the word.

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  10. Ed says:

    Now compare to Europe where a simple forceful declaration and tugging back some boats to Libya would prevent millions of Africans from trekking across the Sahara, through Libya and on to Itaky.

    Or Merkel doing the reverse declaring there’s no limit to the refugees Germany would take and millions of Syrians taking her up on it.

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  11. UIA says:

    Postman distinguishes the Orwellian vision of the future, in which totalitarian governments seize individual rights, from that offered by Aldous Huxley in Brave New World, where people medicate themselves into bliss, thereby voluntarily sacrificing their rights. Drawing an analogy with the latter scenario, Postman sees television’s entertainment value as a present-day “soma”, by means of which the citizens’ rights are exchanged for consumers’ entertainment.

    The essential premise of the book, which Postman extends to the rest of his argument(s), is that “form excludes the content,” that is, a particular medium can only sustain a particular level of ideas. Thus rational argument, integral to print typography, is militated against by the medium of television for the aforesaid reason. Owing to this shortcoming, politics and religion are diluted, and “news of the day” becomes a packaged commodity. Television de-emphasises the quality of information in favour of satisfying the far-reaching needs of entertainment, by which information is encumbered and to which it is subordinate.

    Postman asserts the presentation of television news is a form of entertainment programming; arguing inclusion of theme music, the interruption of commercials, and “talking hairdos” bear witness that televised news cannot readily be taken seriously. Postman further examines the differences between written speech, which he argues reached its prime in the early to mid-nineteenth century, and the forms of televisual communication, which rely mostly on visual images to “sell” lifestyles. He argues that, owing to this change in public discourse, politics has ceased to be about a candidate’s ideas and solutions, but whether he comes across favorably on television. Television, he notes, has introduced the phrase “now this”, which implies a complete absence of connection between the separate topics the phrase ostensibly connects. Larry Gonick used this phrase to conclude his Cartoon Guide to (Non)Communication, instead of the traditional “the end”.

    They aren’t worth saving. Space funding a bust along with survival rates. More lawyers won’t help. All the law bought was $20 trillion of debt.

    Since, in the long run, every planetary society will be endangered by impacts from space, every surviving civilization is obliged to become spacefaring — not because of exploratory or romantic zeal, but for the most practical reason imaginable: staying alive.

    US is slumfaring. New slums being exported. Iraq now a bigger slum. New plan is to loot the oil to open filling stations from sea to shining sea with Russian help. Expect new gulf Mexican deals with dead fish. We have the dead towns after the shale gas boom went bust. Food bank double time with water bank. New pot farms planned to grow grass for Cheech and Chong economy. Stoners will save us.

    Crash and burn economy
    Ex-Chesapeake CEO McClendon dies in car wreck day after indictment
    http://www.cnbc.com/…/ex-chesapeake-ceo-mcclendon-dies-in-car-wreck-day-after-indictm…;
    Mar 2, 2016 – Aubrey McClendon, a founder and former chief executive of Chesapeake Energy, died in a fiery single-car crash Wednesday, a day after he …

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  12. The comments on that article are reassuring. Here’s the current top reader comment:

    Too bad it took Trump to remind the world (and the US establishment) that the US is a sovereign nation with borders, not merely a place to do business. The Democrats will not turn their party around and start winning nationwide until they learn this lesson that Americans demand border enforcement.

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    • Agree: Luke Lea, Opinionator
    • Replies: @william munny
    I agree. Even the paper's recommendations, at least as of early yesterday, were sane comments. For many on the left, framing the immigration issue as one about extracting valuable resources from the home country hits them hard, as can be seen with them struggling with that in the comments. The number 2 comment this a.m.:

    " Jim Crowley Worcester Ma 23 hours ago

    How can one expect a country to flourish when its culture involves its motivated people leaving? It has taken the extreme caricature that is Trump to demonstrate how absurd this is. We and Europe are not doing the rest of the world any favors by acting as their "relief valves" and letting their talent leave when the going gets tough. How would you like to be one of the Syrians left behind now that all the merchants, doctors and lawyers are gone? Immigration is probably the best example for arguing that the real cause of Trump's victory is the astonishing arrogance of liberals. They have driven reasonable, middle of the road people like me into his arms.

    Reply 277Recommend "

    Who knows if sincere (the merchants, doctors and lawyers comment jumps out at me), but 277 Times readers recommend it.
    , @jb
    Whenever I see an immigration related article in the Times that allows comments I click on "Reader's Picks" and "Recommend" all the top comments that I agree with, in order to boost them further up in the rankings. This takes less than a minute, and since the totals are often in the high tens or low hundreds, even a single recommend is a significant boost.

    I encourage everyone here with a Times account to make a practice of doing this! A lot of influential people read the Times, and at least some of them will be paying attention to the opinions of the readers, so this is an incredibly easy way cast a small vote for immigration sanity. If 50 or 100 iStevers did this regularly it it would have a definite impact on the comment rankings.

    (You should also write your own comments of course, but that can be frustrating, because they don't always get approved, or if they do they appear so far back in the list that nobody reads them. Still, every once in a while I time it right and get a top ranked comment, and it's definitely a kick when that happens!)

    , @dc.sunsets
    I disagree.

    There is something far more fundamental here, something that changed.

    Unconsciously driven social trust rose continuously for decades. Trust in government (despite what many people claimed), trust in the banking/financial system, trust in experts across the board, trust in utterly alien people from alien cultures, et.al. rose to pathological, frankly insane levels.

    That trust reached apogee and is receding rapidly. We see it in the Democrats' factions no longer cooperating, which has fatally wounded that coalition of Leftist parasites.

    We'll know it's plunged deeply indeed when Joe Citizen becomes so distrustful and so enraged that attacking anyone who sticks out as alien becomes normal.

    To those whose home is NOT IN THE USA (and this includes "paperwork citizens" of the last 50 years), go home. My nation is no longer safe for you because my people call it and nowhere else home, and we don't trust you enough to coexist under the same polity.
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  13. LKM says:

    Either way, the US, is way behind the Israelis, who have come up with a new way to get rid of the (African)asylum seekers and illegal immigrants they already have(even ones who have been given temporary visas). Withhold part of their pay and tax their employers!
    link

    Under the new law, employers must deduct 20 percent of the wages of Eritrean and Sudanese employees who entered Israel illegally from Egypt and have temporary visas.

    The sum is then deposited in a fund, alongside an employer-paid tax of 16 percent, and remains there until the worker leaves Israel.

    The general manager of the Israeli Restaurant Association expressed his displeasure, but something tells me that Benjamin Netanyahu and other Israeli politicians don’t care.

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  14. The smuggling ‘fees’ these Hondurans were willing to pay to get into the US are interesting. One said $12,000 another $8500. Let’s say the average is $10,000. This implies an unemployed Honduran can find $10,000 in capital. An illegal immigrant coffle of 10 can raise $100,000.

    $100,000 can buy some industrial sewing machines and bolts of cloth. These people could pool their resources and sew shirts or engage in some other enterprise to create jobs for themselves in Honduras. It is how Asia pulled itself out of poverty. Of course the Honduran couldn’t enroll his child in a $100 million dollar American high school or access the Cleveland Clinic for healthcare but neither Rome or the US was built in a day or even a decade.

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    • Replies: @David
    I used to think like that, buy a tractor, a chainsaw, whatever and start a business. But in Honduras $100 of movable goods needs to be accompanied by an armed guard to have a high chance of arriving at its destination. That's why when you want a three-foot in diameter tree removed from your yard, you hire three guys with machetes to turn it into splinters over three days. A man on his own couldn't retain a chainsaw.

    The maras will slash the throat of a 60-year old tortilla lady if she doesn't pay the war tax, and that is a big part of why Honduras sucks. But Hondurans are to simple-minded and selfish to solve the problem.

    Also, all Hondurans lie about anything that might elicit sympathy or generosity. They do this without thinking from the age of zero. The coyote costs are more like $4000. They get the money from the 10 or 15% of Honduran citizens already living in the states. The money transfers have also driven home prices sky high relative to salaries, so the only way to build a prosperous life there is to come here.
    , @SteveRogers42
    Those numbers are interesting. How DOES an unemployed peasant get his hands on so much ready scratch? Occam's Razor suggests that these transit fees are paid off by acting as drug mules. In the statistically-unlikely event of an interdiction and detainment, it would be a simple matter to toss the dope into the trackless desert and then stand around looking all sad and sorry.
    , @Olorin
    We found it interesting that the same NSA that's grepping my transmissions for Hate Pixels somehow isn't catching repeated long-distance phone calls from target countries to target cities in which people discuss financial planning for hiring of human traffickers to break US immigration law.

    David replies that it's hard to start a business in Honduras because corruption.

    I take it David hasn't tried to start and run a business in Senor Fuentes's target city of NYC lately. The fact that Senor was planning to access residency via that very sort of corruption also seems to have escaped David.
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  15. People here have a flawed idea of how poverty actually works. It doesn’t stem from laziness or lack of motivation. Leaving their countries–and in turn their families and cultures–for a land that is plagued with prejudice and discrimination, is one of the last things people want to do. A situation needs to be incredibly dire for them to take that step.

    White men cause all the world problems and must be dealt with accordingly.
    This is in no way supposed to be an indictment it is simply a fact People seem to forget there is a human factor behind everything Some that they readily call “criminals” are just worried parents hoping to be able to feed their children the next day and the day after that.
    We shouldn’t abandon them.

    This is why Elysum was a great movie. Leonard Pitts wrote a great review. READ IT

    As verysmartbrothas always says: white people must be stopped

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    • Replies: @fish


    This music won't do. There's not enough sarcasm in it.

    - Leonard Pitts
     
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  16. @unit472
    The smuggling 'fees' these Hondurans were willing to pay to get into the US are interesting. One said $12,000 another $8500. Let's say the average is $10,000. This implies an unemployed Honduran can find $10,000 in capital. An illegal immigrant coffle of 10 can raise $100,000.

    $100,000 can buy some industrial sewing machines and bolts of cloth. These people could pool their resources and sew shirts or engage in some other enterprise to create jobs for themselves in Honduras. It is how Asia pulled itself out of poverty. Of course the Honduran couldn't enroll his child in a $100 million dollar American high school or access the Cleveland Clinic for healthcare but neither Rome or the US was built in a day or even a decade.

    I used to think like that, buy a tractor, a chainsaw, whatever and start a business. But in Honduras $100 of movable goods needs to be accompanied by an armed guard to have a high chance of arriving at its destination. That’s why when you want a three-foot in diameter tree removed from your yard, you hire three guys with machetes to turn it into splinters over three days. A man on his own couldn’t retain a chainsaw.

    The maras will slash the throat of a 60-year old tortilla lady if she doesn’t pay the war tax, and that is a big part of why Honduras sucks. But Hondurans are to simple-minded and selfish to solve the problem.

    Also, all Hondurans lie about anything that might elicit sympathy or generosity. They do this without thinking from the age of zero. The coyote costs are more like $4000. They get the money from the 10 or 15% of Honduran citizens already living in the states. The money transfers have also driven home prices sky high relative to salaries, so the only way to build a prosperous life there is to come here.

    Read More
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  17. Even moderate immigration enforcement is pretty effective. The immigrant who has paid thousands of dollars to traffickers has to be lucky all of the way. He can’t even afford to take his chances with an administration that catches only one in three illegal immigrants. The same applies to the African invasion of Europe. The lying politicians claim they want to crack down on the people smugglers, while in reality they’re colluding with them by picking up their cargo halfway.

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  18. In 1965 the USA was roughly 90% European derived and 10% black. Current immigration is the reverse of this with roughly 10% Europeans allowed in and 90% third worlders. I have zero sympathy for Honduran and other border jumpers until legal European immigration is adjusted to at least 50%.

    Currently 50% of newly minted illegal aliens are visa overstayers. People with expired visas who simply do not go home. Donald Trump should push to computerize w bio scans our tracking of visa holders entering and exiting. We don’t track their exits or what they are doing here. We also need to greatly tighten up who can come here on a visa. Destitute third worlders here to visit relatives on a legal visa are not going to be going home when the visa expires. Why would they? Force them to post $10,000 bonds, better yet don’t allow them in, in the first place.

    I would think reforming our visa system is easier to get past Paul Ryan and Congress than getting money to build the Mexican border wall.

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    • Replies: @Flip
    Everyone should have to have a forgery proof ID which would indicate your citizenship or permanent residency status. You should have to show it to get a job, lease an apartment, open a bank account, and use an emergency room. If illegals had a hard time living a regular life, many of them would leave.
    , @SteveRogers42
    If (((they))) were truly interested in helping the beleaguered underclass of the Third World by humanitarian action, (((they))) would open the doors to the Boers and welcome them with open arms.
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  19. @a boy and his dog
    The comments on that article are reassuring. Here's the current top reader comment:

    Too bad it took Trump to remind the world (and the US establishment) that the US is a sovereign nation with borders, not merely a place to do business. The Democrats will not turn their party around and start winning nationwide until they learn this lesson that Americans demand border enforcement.
     

    I agree. Even the paper’s recommendations, at least as of early yesterday, were sane comments. For many on the left, framing the immigration issue as one about extracting valuable resources from the home country hits them hard, as can be seen with them struggling with that in the comments. The number 2 comment this a.m.:

    ” Jim Crowley Worcester Ma 23 hours ago

    How can one expect a country to flourish when its culture involves its motivated people leaving? It has taken the extreme caricature that is Trump to demonstrate how absurd this is. We and Europe are not doing the rest of the world any favors by acting as their “relief valves” and letting their talent leave when the going gets tough. How would you like to be one of the Syrians left behind now that all the merchants, doctors and lawyers are gone? Immigration is probably the best example for arguing that the real cause of Trump’s victory is the astonishing arrogance of liberals. They have driven reasonable, middle of the road people like me into his arms.

    Reply 277Recommend ”

    Who knows if sincere (the merchants, doctors and lawyers comment jumps out at me), but 277 Times readers recommend it.

    Read More
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  20. Hard-line approach? I haven’t seen. hard-line approach from the Trump administration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    Hopefully, "we ain't seen nuthin' yet".
    , @HEL

    Hard-line approach? I haven’t seen. hard-line approach from the Trump administration.
     
    This points to the interesting thing about the media/left's endless spaz attack since Trump took office: they are probably doing a whole lot more to discourage immigration than the administration has thus far. A few more years of this hysteria and hopefully they can suppress the desire to immigrate of untold millions. We can dream, anyway . . .
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  21. Flip says:
    @Clyde
    In 1965 the USA was roughly 90% European derived and 10% black. Current immigration is the reverse of this with roughly 10% Europeans allowed in and 90% third worlders. I have zero sympathy for Honduran and other border jumpers until legal European immigration is adjusted to at least 50%.

    Currently 50% of newly minted illegal aliens are visa overstayers. People with expired visas who simply do not go home. Donald Trump should push to computerize w bio scans our tracking of visa holders entering and exiting. We don't track their exits or what they are doing here. We also need to greatly tighten up who can come here on a visa. Destitute third worlders here to visit relatives on a legal visa are not going to be going home when the visa expires. Why would they? Force them to post $10,000 bonds, better yet don't allow them in, in the first place.

    I would think reforming our visa system is easier to get past Paul Ryan and Congress than getting money to build the Mexican border wall.

    Everyone should have to have a forgery proof ID which would indicate your citizenship or permanent residency status. You should have to show it to get a job, lease an apartment, open a bank account, and use an emergency room. If illegals had a hard time living a regular life, many of them would leave.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Everyone should have to have a forgery proof ID which would indicate your citizenship or permanent residency status. You should have to show it to get a job, lease an apartment, open a bank account, and use an emergency room. If illegals had a hard time living a regular life, many of them would leave.

     

    This is precisely how Hong Kong manages to allow in hundreds of thousands of Filipinas and Indonesians as domestic workers, yet prevents nearly all of them from staying on illegally. A 'hard ID' makes the 'soft enforcement' of immigration law possible in many, many facets of day-to-day life. You don't need a police state mentality to make it work, i.e. with lots of high-impact raids and mass arrests.

    But vigilance is needed. 'Human rights' groups constantly pressure the HK government to change the status of guest workers so that they'll be on the permanent residence track like other expats (like me) who gain the right to live here permanently after seven years. And once an overstayer is caught, deportation (or imprisonment + deportation) has to be essentially immediate, like it is here. No lengthy appeals, etc.
    , @anon
    Such a thing exists; it is called Passport. Lest one think it is an inconvenient booklet, there is a credit card size passport card. The problem in making such an ID compulsory for day to day living is the constitution. Unless it is amended, it is hard to force a citizen to get or carry any form of paper, especially when no interaction with government is involved. Constitutional rights are complicated to control; for example, it is easy to demand ID for buying tobacco or alcohol but not for voting! Similarly, it is easier to take away driver license than a gun based on infirmity.
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  22. @Tiny Duck
    People here have a flawed idea of how poverty actually works. It doesn't stem from laziness or lack of motivation. Leaving their countries--and in turn their families and cultures--for a land that is plagued with prejudice and discrimination, is one of the last things people want to do. A situation needs to be incredibly dire for them to take that step.

    White men cause all the world problems and must be dealt with accordingly.
    This is in no way supposed to be an indictment it is simply a fact People seem to forget there is a human factor behind everything Some that they readily call "criminals" are just worried parents hoping to be able to feed their children the next day and the day after that.
    We shouldn't abandon them.

    This is why Elysum was a great movie. Leonard Pitts wrote a great review. READ IT

    As verysmartbrothas always says: white people must be stopped

    This music won’t do. There’s not enough sarcasm in it.

    - Leonard Pitts

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  23. I’m always iffy about this subject, but since I respect a country’s right to secure its borders, here’s my two cents. Even three and two monthsago, I kept hearing about Mexicans –mostly qualified laborers– coming back from the States. The type that is smart, kept his network and can get a new job fairly easy, though also a few old and tired ones who needed to end their lives with less uncertainty. Very recently, I have heard of two persons that “are going” to the U.S. and one that “is staying”. Very scientific poll, I know. But my impression is that Trump appears very beleaguered to be effective in the short term. The media coverage renders him consistently as a loony, somehow ridiculous, and that is very undermining. People (illegals) are becoming less afraid. Kelly has to do a good job on the ground, I think.

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  24. jb says:
    @a boy and his dog
    The comments on that article are reassuring. Here's the current top reader comment:

    Too bad it took Trump to remind the world (and the US establishment) that the US is a sovereign nation with borders, not merely a place to do business. The Democrats will not turn their party around and start winning nationwide until they learn this lesson that Americans demand border enforcement.
     

    Whenever I see an immigration related article in the Times that allows comments I click on “Reader’s Picks” and “Recommend” all the top comments that I agree with, in order to boost them further up in the rankings. This takes less than a minute, and since the totals are often in the high tens or low hundreds, even a single recommend is a significant boost.

    I encourage everyone here with a Times account to make a practice of doing this! A lot of influential people read the Times, and at least some of them will be paying attention to the opinions of the readers, so this is an incredibly easy way cast a small vote for immigration sanity. If 50 or 100 iStevers did this regularly it it would have a definite impact on the comment rankings.

    (You should also write your own comments of course, but that can be frustrating, because they don’t always get approved, or if they do they appear so far back in the list that nobody reads them. Still, every once in a while I time it right and get a top ranked comment, and it’s definitely a kick when that happens!)

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  25. What we are seeing is the start of a campaign where the Left claims that problem has resolved itself so there is no need to do any more to stem the flow. You can be sure there will be an all out campaign from the Bezos Post and Slim Times against the wall, based on the many stories like this they have banked, claiming the migrant problem has been resolved.

    The Left is all-in on the replacement project. They are not giving it up. I’ll also note that they never lose these fights. They play the long game.

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  26. I’m stunned by how reasonable many of the NYT comments seem to be.

    The answer to world poverty can’t be to move the entire global population to the US and Europe.

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  27. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Emma Lazarus had it wrong. No, this country was never designed to be a dumping ground for what that Marxist philosopher-shrink, Franz Fanon, termed “The Wretched of The Earth”, so this comes as welcome news. Can’t help thinking though that it may be too little, too late. And The Wall–I’ll believe it when I see it–may already be redundant, serving no other purpose than a glorified jobs program.

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  28. @a boy and his dog
    The comments on that article are reassuring. Here's the current top reader comment:

    Too bad it took Trump to remind the world (and the US establishment) that the US is a sovereign nation with borders, not merely a place to do business. The Democrats will not turn their party around and start winning nationwide until they learn this lesson that Americans demand border enforcement.
     

    I disagree.

    There is something far more fundamental here, something that changed.

    Unconsciously driven social trust rose continuously for decades. Trust in government (despite what many people claimed), trust in the banking/financial system, trust in experts across the board, trust in utterly alien people from alien cultures, et.al. rose to pathological, frankly insane levels.

    That trust reached apogee and is receding rapidly. We see it in the Democrats’ factions no longer cooperating, which has fatally wounded that coalition of Leftist parasites.

    We’ll know it’s plunged deeply indeed when Joe Citizen becomes so distrustful and so enraged that attacking anyone who sticks out as alien becomes normal.

    To those whose home is NOT IN THE USA (and this includes “paperwork citizens” of the last 50 years), go home. My nation is no longer safe for you because my people call it and nowhere else home, and we don’t trust you enough to coexist under the same polity.

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  29. The lax immigration policies of the west is leading directly to more poverty in developing countries. What happens when the best and brightest, young and able body leave? Who’s left to run the country but the corrupt, criminal, lazy, stupid, sick, old and very young? That’s why these countries can’t develop, leading to more people needing to leave, creating a toxic cycle.

    Meanwhile in the west, easy availability of cheap labor deters automation. This was why India and China did not come up with the industrial revolution, due to abundance of cheap labor. Now the west is falling into the same trap. Immigration hurts everyone. Instead of growing pies everywhere, we now concentrate on growing a few pies with everyone going after the same few pies. We need to smarten up and end all immigration to the rich world to help the world develop more evenly.

    The elites of the world have always been self serving and gone against the interest of the public throughout history. They are no different today. The most ardent advocate of immigration from the third world are the billionaires in the west. They spout love of multiculturalism and equality to hide their true reason for wanting mass immigration which is to grow their cheap labor and customer base. Throughout history it has always been the masses who save their country. The masses have risen up again this time to elect Donald Trump. We want less foreign intervention and less immigration. He had better not let us down on immigration or America is toast. So far Trump has not been fulfilling his promises on either foreign intervention or immigration. Maybe after he fights off this Russian collusion bullcrap he can finally get things going. But his admin is currently being hijacked by the same elites we tried to get rid of. He needs to fire Jared Kushner, Nikki Haley, McMaster and lean more on Steve Bannon.

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  30. The cops set up a speed trap…and everybody stops speeding. Who woulda thought that the same principle could be applied to immigration?

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  31. @unit472
    The smuggling 'fees' these Hondurans were willing to pay to get into the US are interesting. One said $12,000 another $8500. Let's say the average is $10,000. This implies an unemployed Honduran can find $10,000 in capital. An illegal immigrant coffle of 10 can raise $100,000.

    $100,000 can buy some industrial sewing machines and bolts of cloth. These people could pool their resources and sew shirts or engage in some other enterprise to create jobs for themselves in Honduras. It is how Asia pulled itself out of poverty. Of course the Honduran couldn't enroll his child in a $100 million dollar American high school or access the Cleveland Clinic for healthcare but neither Rome or the US was built in a day or even a decade.

    Those numbers are interesting. How DOES an unemployed peasant get his hands on so much ready scratch? Occam’s Razor suggests that these transit fees are paid off by acting as drug mules. In the statistically-unlikely event of an interdiction and detainment, it would be a simple matter to toss the dope into the trackless desert and then stand around looking all sad and sorry.

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  32. @MBlanc46
    Hard-line approach? I haven't seen. hard-line approach from the Trump administration.

    Hopefully, “we ain’t seen nuthin’ yet”.

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  33. @Clyde
    In 1965 the USA was roughly 90% European derived and 10% black. Current immigration is the reverse of this with roughly 10% Europeans allowed in and 90% third worlders. I have zero sympathy for Honduran and other border jumpers until legal European immigration is adjusted to at least 50%.

    Currently 50% of newly minted illegal aliens are visa overstayers. People with expired visas who simply do not go home. Donald Trump should push to computerize w bio scans our tracking of visa holders entering and exiting. We don't track their exits or what they are doing here. We also need to greatly tighten up who can come here on a visa. Destitute third worlders here to visit relatives on a legal visa are not going to be going home when the visa expires. Why would they? Force them to post $10,000 bonds, better yet don't allow them in, in the first place.

    I would think reforming our visa system is easier to get past Paul Ryan and Congress than getting money to build the Mexican border wall.

    If (((they))) were truly interested in helping the beleaguered underclass of the Third World by humanitarian action, (((they))) would open the doors to the Boers and welcome them with open arms.

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  34. @JohnnyD
    Thank god, we don't have Hillary in office to go full Merkel on us.

    Yes. As underwhelming as Trump has been, at his worst he is a thousand times better than Hillary at her best.

    Today, in honor of the Fourth, I am partaking of that quintessential American ritual – loitering in a large, air-conditioned store with nary an intention of buying anything.

    I’m sitting in Barnes & Noble – yes, there are still a few around. I’m on the second-floor balcony, near the down escalator.

    The escalator is out of order, as it was the last time I came here. That was … oh, at least a year ago.

    (Has it been a year already? Yes, I guess it has. There was a time when I went to Barnes, Borders, and/or Waldenbooks at least two or three times a week. Hell, I even went to B. Dalton’s a couple of times a year.)

    There was an open table in the cafe, but the guy sitting nearest that table reeked of B.O. His stench was overwhelming.

    I remember when this store opened. It was over twenty years ago. At the time, it seemed so new and so big and so chock-full of fascinating reading material. It still seems big (about the size of an mall department store), and it’s clean enough, but it doesn’t have that aura of being the central repository of the intellectual universe that it had in 1997.

    The shelves are untidy and the labels are misleading. (Under “Transportation,” I found oversized picture books celebrating the 30th anniversary of the WWF.) The magazine area is a train wreck.

    The store is getting decent foot traffic, but half of the folks are staring at their phones or laptops and the other half are wandering around aimlessly. Only a few seem to be browsing the shelves and buying books.

    I wonder if this store will still be in business five years from now. It’s a retail survivor, having outlived all of its competitors. But even the hardiest of dinosaurs can survive in this harshest of climates for only so long.

    (That being said, it is boiling hot outside.)

    Happy Fourth, everyone.

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  35. Off-topic,

    In case anyone is wondering why today’s (July Fourth’s ) google doodle features animals:

    Whether you know it as the Fourth of July, Independence Day, or simply America’s birthday, today’s Doodle commemorates an important day in U.S. history. 241 years ago, on July 4, 1776, the Continental Congress voted to adopt the Declaration of Independence, a document proclaiming freedom from Great Britain. And thus the United States of America was born. Each year on this day, Americans from coast to coast unite to celebrate the birth of their country with traditions such as parades, firework displays, and barbecuing with family and friends.

    Today’s Doodle is inspired by Stephen Mather (also born July 4), a noted conservationist and the first director of the National Parks Service. Often hailed as “America’s Best Idea,” the NPS was created by President Woodrow Wilson in 1916. Over a century old, America’s national parks span 84 million acres and host more than 275 million visitors every year.

    However you spend this Fourth of July, we hope you’ll join us in wishing America a very happy birthday!

    http://www.refinery29.com/2017/07/161876/google-fourth-of-july-doodle

    Guess the guys at google aren’t Woke to the fact that Mather is tainted….

    Scratch the record anywhere in the early conservation movement, and eugenics sounds loud and clear: Alexander Graham Bell, who falsely claimed to have invented the telephone and who was one of the founders of the National Geographic Society; two charter members of the Sierra Club, David Starr Jordan (founding president of Stanford University) and Luther Burbank were all prominent members of the movement. George Grinnell, founder of the Audubon Society (and Edward Curtis’ mentor) was Madison Grant’s close friend for nearly 50 years. The National Park Service’s first director, mining magnate Stephen Mather, was backed by Charles Goethe, of the Audubon and Kenya Wildlife Societies, regional head of the Sierra Club and outspoken advocate of Nazi eugenic laws.

    http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/32487-the-colonial-origins-of-conservation-the-disturbing-history-behind-us-national-parks

    Read More
    • Replies: @snorlax
    I assumed it was a combination July 4/Canada Day doodle.
    , @Rob McX
    Mother Nature is the biggest eugenicist of all. And she doesn't take kindly to organisms that allow their territory to be invaded by competing subspecies.
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  36. @unit472
    The smuggling 'fees' these Hondurans were willing to pay to get into the US are interesting. One said $12,000 another $8500. Let's say the average is $10,000. This implies an unemployed Honduran can find $10,000 in capital. An illegal immigrant coffle of 10 can raise $100,000.

    $100,000 can buy some industrial sewing machines and bolts of cloth. These people could pool their resources and sew shirts or engage in some other enterprise to create jobs for themselves in Honduras. It is how Asia pulled itself out of poverty. Of course the Honduran couldn't enroll his child in a $100 million dollar American high school or access the Cleveland Clinic for healthcare but neither Rome or the US was built in a day or even a decade.

    We found it interesting that the same NSA that’s grepping my transmissions for Hate Pixels somehow isn’t catching repeated long-distance phone calls from target countries to target cities in which people discuss financial planning for hiring of human traffickers to break US immigration law.

    David replies that it’s hard to start a business in Honduras because corruption.

    I take it David hasn’t tried to start and run a business in Senor Fuentes’s target city of NYC lately. The fact that Senor was planning to access residency via that very sort of corruption also seems to have escaped David.

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  37. @Flip
    Everyone should have to have a forgery proof ID which would indicate your citizenship or permanent residency status. You should have to show it to get a job, lease an apartment, open a bank account, and use an emergency room. If illegals had a hard time living a regular life, many of them would leave.

    Everyone should have to have a forgery proof ID which would indicate your citizenship or permanent residency status. You should have to show it to get a job, lease an apartment, open a bank account, and use an emergency room. If illegals had a hard time living a regular life, many of them would leave.

    This is precisely how Hong Kong manages to allow in hundreds of thousands of Filipinas and Indonesians as domestic workers, yet prevents nearly all of them from staying on illegally. A ‘hard ID’ makes the ‘soft enforcement’ of immigration law possible in many, many facets of day-to-day life. You don’t need a police state mentality to make it work, i.e. with lots of high-impact raids and mass arrests.

    But vigilance is needed. ‘Human rights’ groups constantly pressure the HK government to change the status of guest workers so that they’ll be on the permanent residence track like other expats (like me) who gain the right to live here permanently after seven years. And once an overstayer is caught, deportation (or imprisonment + deportation) has to be essentially immediate, like it is here. No lengthy appeals, etc.

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  38. @syonredux
    Off-topic,

    In case anyone is wondering why today's (July Fourth's ) google doodle features animals:

    Whether you know it as the Fourth of July, Independence Day, or simply America’s birthday, today’s Doodle commemorates an important day in U.S. history. 241 years ago, on July 4, 1776, the Continental Congress voted to adopt the Declaration of Independence, a document proclaiming freedom from Great Britain. And thus the United States of America was born. Each year on this day, Americans from coast to coast unite to celebrate the birth of their country with traditions such as parades, firework displays, and barbecuing with family and friends.

    Today’s Doodle is inspired by Stephen Mather (also born July 4), a noted conservationist and the first director of the National Parks Service. Often hailed as “America’s Best Idea,” the NPS was created by President Woodrow Wilson in 1916. Over a century old, America’s national parks span 84 million acres and host more than 275 million visitors every year.

    However you spend this Fourth of July, we hope you'll join us in wishing America a very happy birthday!
     
    http://www.refinery29.com/2017/07/161876/google-fourth-of-july-doodle


    Guess the guys at google aren't Woke to the fact that Mather is tainted....

    Scratch the record anywhere in the early conservation movement, and eugenics sounds loud and clear: Alexander Graham Bell, who falsely claimed to have invented the telephone and who was one of the founders of the National Geographic Society; two charter members of the Sierra Club, David Starr Jordan (founding president of Stanford University) and Luther Burbank were all prominent members of the movement. George Grinnell, founder of the Audubon Society (and Edward Curtis' mentor) was Madison Grant's close friend for nearly 50 years. The National Park Service's first director, mining magnate Stephen Mather, was backed by Charles Goethe, of the Audubon and Kenya Wildlife Societies, regional head of the Sierra Club and outspoken advocate of Nazi eugenic laws.

     

    http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/32487-the-colonial-origins-of-conservation-the-disturbing-history-behind-us-national-parks

    I assumed it was a combination July 4/Canada Day doodle.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    Speaking of the 4th of July, I know this is OT, but the headline and first couple of paragraphs from today's Chicago Tribune wrap-up of the city's holiday weekend shootings is one of the best examples I've seen of the 'crime as weather', 21st-century newspeak style. To wit:

    Violence leaves about 60 shot, 8 of them dead, for July 4th weekend

    Dozens of people were struck by gunfire in Chicago, some of them fatally, during the traditionally violent Fourth of July weekend, mostly in parts of the South and West sides that have long been plagued by gang crime and gun violence.

    From Friday afternoon through Tuesday afternoon, about 60 people were shot with eight of them killed, according to data kept by the Tribune.
     

    All passive constructions, plus the wonderfully memorable 'traditionally violent Fourth of July weekend'. Gotta love the MSM and their appreciation for traditionalists.

    The article notes that Chicago has recorded 323 homicides so far this year, which is just one ahead of last year's pace, and that the number of total shootings is actually down a couple hundred, so that's some good, good news.

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  39. @snorlax
    I assumed it was a combination July 4/Canada Day doodle.

    Speaking of the 4th of July, I know this is OT, but the headline and first couple of paragraphs from today’s Chicago Tribune wrap-up of the city’s holiday weekend shootings is one of the best examples I’ve seen of the ‘crime as weather’, 21st-century newspeak style. To wit:

    Violence leaves about 60 shot, 8 of them dead, for July 4th weekend

    Dozens of people were struck by gunfire in Chicago, some of them fatally, during the traditionally violent Fourth of July weekend, mostly in parts of the South and West sides that have long been plagued by gang crime and gun violence.

    From Friday afternoon through Tuesday afternoon, about 60 people were shot with eight of them killed, according to data kept by the Tribune.

    All passive constructions, plus the wonderfully memorable ‘traditionally violent Fourth of July weekend’. Gotta love the MSM and their appreciation for traditionalists.

    The article notes that Chicago has recorded 323 homicides so far this year, which is just one ahead of last year’s pace, and that the number of total shootings is actually down a couple hundred, so that’s some good, good news.

    Read More
    • LOL: snorlax
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    Forgot the LINK; I found the story at Drudge.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    How does this compare to Devil's Night in Detroit?
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  40. @The Last Real Calvinist
    Speaking of the 4th of July, I know this is OT, but the headline and first couple of paragraphs from today's Chicago Tribune wrap-up of the city's holiday weekend shootings is one of the best examples I've seen of the 'crime as weather', 21st-century newspeak style. To wit:

    Violence leaves about 60 shot, 8 of them dead, for July 4th weekend

    Dozens of people were struck by gunfire in Chicago, some of them fatally, during the traditionally violent Fourth of July weekend, mostly in parts of the South and West sides that have long been plagued by gang crime and gun violence.

    From Friday afternoon through Tuesday afternoon, about 60 people were shot with eight of them killed, according to data kept by the Tribune.
     

    All passive constructions, plus the wonderfully memorable 'traditionally violent Fourth of July weekend'. Gotta love the MSM and their appreciation for traditionalists.

    The article notes that Chicago has recorded 323 homicides so far this year, which is just one ahead of last year's pace, and that the number of total shootings is actually down a couple hundred, so that's some good, good news.

    Forgot the LINK; I found the story at Drudge.

    Read More
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  41. HEL says:
    @MBlanc46
    Hard-line approach? I haven't seen. hard-line approach from the Trump administration.

    Hard-line approach? I haven’t seen. hard-line approach from the Trump administration.

    This points to the interesting thing about the media/left’s endless spaz attack since Trump took office: they are probably doing a whole lot more to discourage immigration than the administration has thus far. A few more years of this hysteria and hopefully they can suppress the desire to immigrate of untold millions. We can dream, anyway . . .

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  42. A friend of mine once bought a farm that had fallen into disrepair. The barn was lousy with roosting pigeons (rock doves) – hundreds of them.
    First, he tried driving them out, and sure enough, they’d leave – for a while. But it wasn’t feasible to close off every hole that would admit a pigeon, so before long they were back in undiminished numbers.
    Next, he started shooting them. He’d kill a few, and the rest would flee – but before long, they’d be back in barely-diminished numbers.
    Finally, he shot a few more – but this time, he left the dead ones out for the others to see. When some few returned, he shot them, too. Within a couple of weeks, he no longer had a pigeon problem.
    It’s long past time that we erected the Taco Curtain. The first hundred meters on the US side should be the killing zone. Leave a few dead ones out there, and the rest will get the message soon enough. It ought to be just as dangerous to violate America’s borders as it once was to brave the Berlin Wall.

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  43. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Flip
    Everyone should have to have a forgery proof ID which would indicate your citizenship or permanent residency status. You should have to show it to get a job, lease an apartment, open a bank account, and use an emergency room. If illegals had a hard time living a regular life, many of them would leave.

    Such a thing exists; it is called Passport. Lest one think it is an inconvenient booklet, there is a credit card size passport card. The problem in making such an ID compulsory for day to day living is the constitution. Unless it is amended, it is hard to force a citizen to get or carry any form of paper, especially when no interaction with government is involved. Constitutional rights are complicated to control; for example, it is easy to demand ID for buying tobacco or alcohol but not for voting! Similarly, it is easier to take away driver license than a gun based on infirmity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Flip
    The Supreme Court has already ruled that you have to provide the police with your name if you are stopped, so I don't think having to carry an ID card (which most people already have in the form of a driver's license) is much of a stretch. You can't check into a hotel or get on an airplane without providing an ID.
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  44. @syonredux
    Off-topic,

    In case anyone is wondering why today's (July Fourth's ) google doodle features animals:

    Whether you know it as the Fourth of July, Independence Day, or simply America’s birthday, today’s Doodle commemorates an important day in U.S. history. 241 years ago, on July 4, 1776, the Continental Congress voted to adopt the Declaration of Independence, a document proclaiming freedom from Great Britain. And thus the United States of America was born. Each year on this day, Americans from coast to coast unite to celebrate the birth of their country with traditions such as parades, firework displays, and barbecuing with family and friends.

    Today’s Doodle is inspired by Stephen Mather (also born July 4), a noted conservationist and the first director of the National Parks Service. Often hailed as “America’s Best Idea,” the NPS was created by President Woodrow Wilson in 1916. Over a century old, America’s national parks span 84 million acres and host more than 275 million visitors every year.

    However you spend this Fourth of July, we hope you'll join us in wishing America a very happy birthday!
     
    http://www.refinery29.com/2017/07/161876/google-fourth-of-july-doodle


    Guess the guys at google aren't Woke to the fact that Mather is tainted....

    Scratch the record anywhere in the early conservation movement, and eugenics sounds loud and clear: Alexander Graham Bell, who falsely claimed to have invented the telephone and who was one of the founders of the National Geographic Society; two charter members of the Sierra Club, David Starr Jordan (founding president of Stanford University) and Luther Burbank were all prominent members of the movement. George Grinnell, founder of the Audubon Society (and Edward Curtis' mentor) was Madison Grant's close friend for nearly 50 years. The National Park Service's first director, mining magnate Stephen Mather, was backed by Charles Goethe, of the Audubon and Kenya Wildlife Societies, regional head of the Sierra Club and outspoken advocate of Nazi eugenic laws.

     

    http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/32487-the-colonial-origins-of-conservation-the-disturbing-history-behind-us-national-parks

    Mother Nature is the biggest eugenicist of all. And she doesn’t take kindly to organisms that allow their territory to be invaded by competing subspecies.

    Read More
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  45. @anon
    Such a thing exists; it is called Passport. Lest one think it is an inconvenient booklet, there is a credit card size passport card. The problem in making such an ID compulsory for day to day living is the constitution. Unless it is amended, it is hard to force a citizen to get or carry any form of paper, especially when no interaction with government is involved. Constitutional rights are complicated to control; for example, it is easy to demand ID for buying tobacco or alcohol but not for voting! Similarly, it is easier to take away driver license than a gun based on infirmity.

    The Supreme Court has already ruled that you have to provide the police with your name if you are stopped, so I don’t think having to carry an ID card (which most people already have in the form of a driver’s license) is much of a stretch. You can’t check into a hotel or get on an airplane without providing an ID.

    Read More
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  46. @The Last Real Calvinist
    Speaking of the 4th of July, I know this is OT, but the headline and first couple of paragraphs from today's Chicago Tribune wrap-up of the city's holiday weekend shootings is one of the best examples I've seen of the 'crime as weather', 21st-century newspeak style. To wit:

    Violence leaves about 60 shot, 8 of them dead, for July 4th weekend

    Dozens of people were struck by gunfire in Chicago, some of them fatally, during the traditionally violent Fourth of July weekend, mostly in parts of the South and West sides that have long been plagued by gang crime and gun violence.

    From Friday afternoon through Tuesday afternoon, about 60 people were shot with eight of them killed, according to data kept by the Tribune.
     

    All passive constructions, plus the wonderfully memorable 'traditionally violent Fourth of July weekend'. Gotta love the MSM and their appreciation for traditionalists.

    The article notes that Chicago has recorded 323 homicides so far this year, which is just one ahead of last year's pace, and that the number of total shootings is actually down a couple hundred, so that's some good, good news.

    How does this compare to Devil’s Night in Detroit?

    Read More
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  47. Naming a child “Eswin” is abusive all by itself. Visa denied!

    Read More
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