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"Lying About One's Race on a College Application Isn't Exactly a Crime"
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From the Daily Mail:

… According to the applications Singer’s operation handled, applicants claimed to be underrepresented minorities based on a weak connection such as a distant relative of Native American ancestry.

Hmmhmmmh … Does that remind you of anybody in the news?

In one case a teenager was presented as Native American when ‘there was absolutely nothing Native American about this kid’, according to the report.

By playing the race card Singer and his scam are tapping into the fiery controversy over the weight race should have in school admissions.

Many schools say they consider race in their admissions policies to create a diverse, rich learning environment for all students. …

Though lying about one’s race on a college application isn’t exactly a crime, it can lead to disciplinary action by the school. …

[Note: Don’t take legal advice from the Daily Mail.]

Evidently, so few white people cheat that it’s been allowed to remain a legal gray area for 50 years. I explored the remarkable aspects of the “affirmative action honor system” in a Taki’s column last year.

Or does any lawyer out there know exactly what law you could be charged with breaking?

Update: Read the comments before you decide it would be clever and foolproof to try.

 
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  1. Hail says: • Website

    How far are we from the need to submit a 23andMe along with the application essay and etc.?

    SAT/ACT score: 30% weight
    High school GPA: 20% weight
    Essay: 15% weight
    Activities/Other: 10% weight
    Race: 25% weight, on point scale derived from 23andMe result

    Race point scale as follows:
    +25 points for each 1.0% of Subsaharan
    +15 points for each 1.0% of Amerindian
    +[strict trade secret] for each 1.0% of Ashkenazi
    -15 points for each 1.0% of NW European for those w/98%+ total European ancestry
    -25 points for each 1.0% of Tiger Mother ancestry

    • Agree: GermanReader2
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri

    "How far are we from the need to submit a 23andMe along with the application.."?
     
    Legal Genealogist Judy Russell expects that within a generation or two all (first world) children will be DNA sequenced at birth. Your DNA profile will be as necessary to doing business as your Social Security number is now.

    https://blog.insito.me/the-insight-show-notes-season-2-episode-13-is-the-fbi-watching-your-dna-571c92f9fc3

    Colleges will demand to be let in on the results as a precondition for entering their hallowed halls. And yes, they will use the results to create racial "balance".

  2. I had business dealings with a very white appearing guy with an Irish surname who was a registered member of an Indian tribe and got governmental contract benefits as a result.

    • Replies: @Endgame Napoleon
    His name wasn’t Beto, was it? Oh, that’s right—Beto is an Hispanic nickname.
    , @Anon000
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-0-9xC_Y7qQ&feature=youtu.be
  3. You have to submit a copy of your birth certificate in order to take the LSAT and apply to ABA accredited law schools. At least you did 29 years go.

    I’m just wondering if this is where we are headed with college applications.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    How would Barry Soetoro have gained admission ? As a foreign student presumably. You may have nailed the whole genesis of the long running mystery.
    , @John Henry

    You have to submit a copy of your birth certificate in order to take the LSAT and apply to ABA accredited law schools.
     
    The birth certificate does not prove anything but what your parents believed about themselves. Or what the doctor or nurse filling out the form thought. Depending on that subjective document will be pretty difficult I think. With today's widespread genetic testing virtually any long term, multi-generational white, or otherwise, American will have infinitesimal traces of, shall we say, different ethnic backgrounds. 23&me tells me I have .4% East Asian & American Indian. Considering how long numerous branches of my pedigree on this continent I can assume it is American Indian. My wife has the same percentage of the same category. For her, whose earliest ancestors got here after 1880 from Poland, it looks like the Tartar invasion figures in her parentage.
    , @OscarWildeLoveChild
    My birth certificate (and presumably my cohort from my birth state) does not state my race. I don't think that was a national law or anything.
    , @propagandist hacker
    I don't recall submitting my birth cert to lsac for the lsat...but in any case, the birth cert does not go to the schools, just the score
  4. There are lots of 1/128 Indian dipshits around who have a chip on their shoulders about their supposed Indianness. If you’ve never encountered one of them, lucky you.

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @Cornbeef
    Welcome to Oklahoma!
  5. Anonymous[758] • Disclaimer says:

    … According to the applications Singer’s operation handled, applicants claimed to be underrepresented minorities based on a weak connection such as a distant relative of Native American ancestry.

    A “distant” relative is a relative. A “weak” connection is a connection nonetheless.

    You either have ancestry or you don’t. If these people have the connection they claim, they have African or Hispanic ancestry and should qualify for preferences.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Hispanics, descendants of the two groups that most actively opposed the creation of the English speaking colonies and nations in the Americas.
    Now desperate to escape their own corrupt failed societies, should be viewed negatively by the peoples they tried to destroy.
    , @GermanReader2
    A few months ago nearly all of the hosts of fox News did an ancestry test and shared the results in their shows. According to the tests both ainsley earhardt and Jesse Watters are about 0.5% black. Are you okay with them being listed as black journalists? Do you think it is okay for their kids to get affirmative action?
  6. 18 U.S.C. 1343 – Mail/Wire fraud

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    18 U.S.C. 1343 – Mail/Wire fraud

    Black, Hispanic, etc. on these applications is seldom, if ever, defined. You have plausible deniability.

    I'm not exactly sure universities, employers, lenders or most other groups who ask that information have any incentive to out you, either. Most of them, I think, are merely interested in being able to tell government regulators, college accreditation boards, various news entities, and random litigious groups that they have X percentage of (non-Asian) minorities. A significant percentage of them will never, ever bother to contradict you. If you tell them you're black then that's one more black they can report to have hired, lent money to, admitted as a student, etc. You may actually being doing a lot of them a big-ass favor.
    , @Jack D
    Also "Honest services fraud" 18 U.S.C. § 1346

    This is a great statute for turning private wrongs into Federal crimes. All the coaches taking bribes are probably guilty of this because they owed their employer their "honest" services and did not provide them. For applicants it's tougher but you could make an argument that applicants have a fiduciary duty to the schools or their fellow applicants to be "honest" on their applications.

    All the people who are saying that "how do you really know who is black?" are missing the point. The real question is whether there was fraudulent intent or an honestly held belief. Courts have to decide whose heart is pure all the time. For example we KNOW that Liz Warren had a pure heart when she claimed to be an Indian maiden and she should not be punished for this in any way. Not only should she not be punished but her heart is pure enough to ascend to the highest office in the land - she is immaculate.

    But, if some vile grasping Trump lover goes around checking the wrong boxes, we can infer that they are doing this with evil intent. This is like pornography vs. art - the court knows it when it sees it whether you are drawing smutty cartoons or making Art. Liz Warren is a diversity artist and you ain't.
    , @propagandist hacker
    from wikipedia:
    "The term Hispanic (Spanish: hispano or hispánico) broadly refers to the people, nations, and cultures that have a historical link to the Spanish language or the country of Spain, depending on the context.

    It commonly applies to countries once under colonial possession by the Spanish Empire following Spanish colonization of the Americas, parts of the Asia-Pacific region and Africa. "

    ---

    the fact is that most of the land mass of the USA mainland was once owned by spain...to wit:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_colonization_of_the_Americas#/media/File:Spanish_America_XVIII_Century_(Most_Expansion).png


    so if you have any ancestors from who lived in america in the 1800s, you can claim to be hispanic...

    fact!
  7. Since there is no more slavery or institutionalized racism, Brazil’s method makes more sense, but it won’t work for the pasty, unambiguous, white-privileged hires in America’s 80%-Black government (and corporate) jobs.

  8. Why must we be disrespected?

    • Replies: @Hail
    Trump Must Lose

    Dump the Chump
    End the Madness
    Tucker Carlson 2020
    , @bored identity



    "You ... have to have a world of some practicality,"

     

    President-In-Law Kushner jewsplained to God Umpire that E-verify is so unpopular that 80% of Americans want Trump Family to start personally taking care of all of his golf courses:




    E-Verify has proved effective at keeping immigrants who are in the country illegally from taking American jobs.

    In Arizona, which pioneered the mandatory checks in 2008, the number of unauthorized workers dropped 33 percent below what was projected without the requirement, according to a 2017 analysis by the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas.

    The federal employment verification system, introduced more than 20 years ago, has wide public support.

    Nearly 80 percent of those surveyed last fall by The Washington Post and ABC News support requiring employers to verify new hires are legally living in the United States – more than double the support for building a wall along the Mexico border.

    Trump last October listed E-Verify among his immigration priorities and in February, requested $23 million in his 2019 budget proposal to expand the program for mandatory nationwide use.

    He uses E-Verify at his golf club in North Carolina, where the worker checks are required by state law, as well as other entities in Chicago, Miami and New York, according to an E-Verify database of participating employers.

    But it is unclear whether E-Verify checks are performed across Trump’s entire domestic portfolio of hotels and golf clubs.

    Trump Organization and White House officials have not responded to Post inquiries.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-is-very-weak-on-this-one-popular-way-to-curb-illegal-immigration/2018/05/22/adf5f85e-399b-11e8-acd5-35eac230e514_story.html?utm_term=.6bb1d1064a8b&noredirect=on


    https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2018/05/22/trump-rising-wages-are-nightmare-says-restauranteur/

     

    Also, interesting flashback from 2006:

    "Bloomberg, who co-hosts a Friday radio talk show on WABC, was discussing the controversial immigration bills in Congress that have resulted in protests across the nation when he was asked to name a typical menial job an illegal immigrant might do.

    The mayor, an avid duffer, immediately thought of golf.

    “You and I are beneficiaries of these jobs,” Bloomberg told his co-host, John Gambling.

    “You and I both play golf.

    Who takes care of the greens and the fairways in your golf course?”

    (...)
    Bloomberg also voiced support, for the first time, for a proposal to build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, a measure denounced by many supporters of illegal immigration


    https://www.upi.com/Bloomberg-Illegal-immigrants-help-golfers/85421143938311/


    https://www.wnd.com/2006/04/35527/

     

    http://golfturf.rutgers.edu/images/Golf-Turf-Students-Mowing.jpg
  9. anon[291] • Disclaimer says:

    The Universities have become the gate keepers for economic and political power, and the Universities have become corrupt as a result.
    If we had a manufacturing base with plenty of blue collar jobs, the Universities would lose power.
    If we had a prosperous market economy with ladders of success for those who work hard, the Universities would lose power.
    If we had restrictions on government to stay out of people’s private lives and to stay out of social relations and culture, the Universities would lose power.
    If we cut off tax support for Ivy Leagues and private colleges, the Universities would lose power.
    If the professors finally lose their power and go back to being bookish monks working in obscurity, they will regain their integrity.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I don't even have one [AGREE] left, much less 6 of them! All true.
    , @njguy73
    If my sister had testicles, she'd be my brother.
    , @TomSchmidt
    "If the professors finally lose their power and go back to being bookish monks working in obscurity, they will regain their integrity."

    They lost their power a long time ago. The cult of management claimed academia last, but claim it it has. The golden rule of the arts and asciences is "whoever has the gold makes the rules." That's the endless series of administrators, not the faculty.

    Faculty reclaiming power as the center of the institution will restore some honor to the field. Even in sociology, believe it or not,
  10. @Flip
    I had business dealings with a very white appearing guy with an Irish surname who was a registered member of an Indian tribe and got governmental contract benefits as a result.

    His name wasn’t Beto, was it? Oh, that’s right—Beto is an Hispanic nickname.

  11. Evidently, so few white people cheat that it’s been allowed to remain a legal gray area for 50 years.

    It’s ‘been allowed to remain legal’?

    I would absolutely love to watch Congress pass a law that punished people who lied about their race or ethnicity in order to obtain utterly un-Constitutional, un-American race-based government handouts. That would make for fun campaign commercials for decades to come.

    Whatever the hell happens in this regard, do not let un-elected bureaucrats write “laws” banning such behavior in a manner that prevents the new laws from being debated before Congress.

    How is Congress going to define “black”? How is Congress going to define “Hispanic”? How is Congress going to define “sub-continental Indian”? How is Congress going to define “Hasidic Jew”?

    It’s a legal grey area because Congress damn sure does not want to have that debate. That’s why you can lie. Lie away.

    If we’re going to do this quota shit let’s finally make it explicit, shall we? Let’s require Congress to have that debate.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    How is Congress going to define “black”? How is Congress going to define “Hispanic”? How is Congress going to define “sub-continental Indian”? How is Congress going to define “Hadisic Jew”?

    It’s a legal grey area because Congress damn sure does not want to have that debate.
     
    Force Congress and the media to have this debate.

    Steve doesn't seem to get that people with some White ancestry's claiming benefits under their non-White ancestry will force this debate. He'd rather take the position that Warren shouldn't be considered to have Indian ancestry even though she demonstrably does have Indian ancestry.
    , @Anon

    How is Congress going to define “black”? How is Congress going to define “Hispanic”? How is Congress going to define “sub-continental Indian”? How is Congress going to define “Hasidic Jew”?
     
    Lawsuits. Lots of lawsuits. Binders full of lawsuits.

    Some billionaire needs to underwrite a few dozen lawsuits by white guys claiming that they are minorities, each with a different story as far as percentage in testing, or family tradition. Get these to circuit appellate level, then have them all petition to the Supreme Court.

    The Supreme Court will come up with something, and it probably won't be "this is up to college admissions employees." Or maybe it will be. But the minute the rule become specific, it will be a target for legislators and regulators, at which point you'll see quantitative systems appear.
    , @Whiskey
    Congress will do what it has done for over 100 years. Let agencies and bureaucrats write the rules.

    And connected women like Fauxcahontas will get away with it. Joe Average spends years in jail.

    And yes HR explicitly verifies and corrects self reported ethnicity by law. It rather Fed regs which are laws.

    It's not ok never ok to be White.
    , @(((Owen)))
    South Africa had a system to deal with all this and it worked perfectly. Everyone had a racial registration and was classified by ancestry, skin color, hair type, and various other characteristics into clear and objective groupings.

    Soon the new America population will need a similar system to divide up the spoils of the nation the ancestral Americans built.
    , @Hypnotoad666

    How is Congress going to define “black”? How is Congress going to define “Hispanic”? How is Congress going to define “sub-continental Indian”? How is Congress going to define “Hasidic Jew”?
     
    It's almost like it would be easier to judge people on their individual merit rather than their ancestry. But that would be White-Supremacist crazy-talk.
  12. Actually lying about anything on a college application isn’t a crime. You can make up fairy tale essays, run fake charities in Burundi, claim to be dyslexic, or choose an identity, pretty much anything goes. It is just a game and a test of due diligence for the school officials. One can get caught, or more likely not.

    The idiocy of using anything but numbers in university admissions is obvious and just waiting to be exploited. One way to collapse the system would be through massive noncompliance and making up stuff. We are told that ‘race’ doesn’t exist and that gender is fluid, so how can one prove lying? Actually making up stuff to overwhelm the system is pretty much the only way to force change – it will never change on its own, too many beneficiaries are in charge of it.

    • Agree: Prodigal son
    • Replies: @Jack D

    Actually lying about anything on a college application isn’t a crime.
     
    You're sure about that? Sure enough to risk Federal prison? I'm not so sure. It shouldn't be, but that doesn't mean it ain't. Just being Federally indicted is a big punishment, even if you are ultimately acquitted. Maybe it's not a crime but maybe it will cost you $300k in defense costs to find out whether it is or not. The old joke is that any Federal prosecutor could convince a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.
    , @anonymous
    I agree with you. Lying on a college application isn't a crime and there is extremely little chance of getting caught UNLESS you decide to go the full ante and get financial aid/scholarships using fraudulent data or take a big deduction on your taxes for "charitable donations" like the admission scandal morons did.

    Here's a notable fraud scandal.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/30/us/tm-landry-college-prep-black-students.html

    You can bet there was no blowback on the students or parents. In fact, black run schools have often been in the news for altering high stakes test scores(Atlanta) or allowing kids to graduate when they've been truant a lot among other issues (Ballou High School). Who really knows what kinds of misrepresentation is happening? We all know that the shift from the SAT/ACT to grades is because of "diversity" and those grades are probably jacked up.

    Parents should be setting up their intersectional Pokemon game plan long before the kids reach college age.
  13. Anonymous[758] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wilkey
    Evidently, so few white people cheat that it’s been allowed to remain a legal gray area for 50 years.

    It's 'been allowed to remain legal'?

    I would absolutely love to watch Congress pass a law that punished people who lied about their race or ethnicity in order to obtain utterly un-Constitutional, un-American race-based government handouts. That would make for fun campaign commercials for decades to come.

    Whatever the hell happens in this regard, do not let un-elected bureaucrats write "laws" banning such behavior in a manner that prevents the new laws from being debated before Congress.

    How is Congress going to define "black"? How is Congress going to define "Hispanic"? How is Congress going to define "sub-continental Indian"? How is Congress going to define "Hasidic Jew"?

    It's a legal grey area because Congress damn sure does not want to have that debate. That's why you can lie. Lie away.

    If we're going to do this quota shit let's finally make it explicit, shall we? Let's require Congress to have that debate.

    How is Congress going to define “black”? How is Congress going to define “Hispanic”? How is Congress going to define “sub-continental Indian”? How is Congress going to define “Hadisic Jew”?

    It’s a legal grey area because Congress damn sure does not want to have that debate.

    Force Congress and the media to have this debate.

    Steve doesn’t seem to get that people with some White ancestry’s claiming benefits under their non-White ancestry will force this debate. He’d rather take the position that Warren shouldn’t be considered to have Indian ancestry even though she demonstrably does have Indian ancestry.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    I have more Amerind ancestry than Warren does by an order of magnitude but I would never be shameless enough to pretend I'm meaningfully Ojibwa.
  14. @216
    Why must we be disrespected?

    https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1130279473214050305

    Trump Must Lose

    Dump the Chump
    End the Madness
    Tucker Carlson 2020

    • Troll: IHTG
    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe

    Dump the Chump
    End the Madness
    Tucker Carlson 2020
     
    I'd prefer to see President Carlson myself. But he isn't running. In the end, we're all going to have to decide between Donald Trump, or same lame mook who wishes us ill, like Kamala Harris. Or you can vote for Bill Weld, I guess.
  15. Anon[745] • Disclaimer says:

    Apparently, it could be a felony if you submit a false application and then take and disburse federal loan funds in the process. This guy, Adam Wheeler, lied on his Harvard application and got years in prison (20 charges, including felony counts). Meanwhile, Jussie Smollet lied about a race hoax, wasted police time, wasted maybe 100k in police resources, filed a false police report, and then walked:

    “[Adam] Wheeler pleaded guilty Thursday afternoon to all 20 counts against him, admitting that he duped the Harvard admissions office and defrauded the University out of over $40,000 in grants and prizes. Upon pleading guilty to 20 misdemeanor and felony counts of larceny, identity fraud, falsifying an endorsement or approval, and pretending to hold a degree, Wheeler was sentenced by Associate Justice Diane M. Kottmyer to 10 years probation. He was also ordered to make restitution of $45,806 to Harvard University and to continue the psychological treatment that he had begun since his arrest. … he dishonestly gained admission to Harvard by fabricating SAT scores, falsifying letters of recommendation, and forging high school and college transcripts.”

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010/12/16/harvard-wheeler-college-guilty/

    He didn’t lie about his race, though. Funny that the guy would lie about everything BUT that. I guess the legal aspect of race misidentification is still a bit murky as noted in the article. What Adam Wheeler did was obviously fraud, but how do you prove someone isn’t a member of one group or another, and do you let it slide if they honestly think they are? As an aside, you have to admit that rich people sure care about the integrity of their kids’ schools. They even sent this guy to be reeducated (psychological counseling) for his crime.

    • Replies: @Giant Duck
    That article is good in that it explicitly recognizes that admissions is a zero-sum game:

    Assistant District Attorney John Verner said during Thursday’s hearing that Wheeler’s dishonesty not only took money from Harvard’s coffers but harmed unknown students who might have earned the spot at Harvard ...
     
  16. Mail fraud and wire fraud are classic “catch all” crimes that a good federal prosecutor can get to stick against many defendants that they can’t nail with any other crime. These are deliberately broadly-worded crimes, so any misstatement you make that is in any way self-serving can be a “crime”. They would work here.

    Mail fraud is pretty straightforward; did you make any of your self-serving misstaments via the U.S. mail (or UPS/Fedex)? Did you do it more than once? Bang; mail fraud. Doesn’t even have to be interstate, because the post office is federal.

    Wire fraud is even more broad. “Wire”, originally, was applied to phone calls and telegrams sent interstate. Now, “wire” has been interpreted to be email and text messages as well.

    The tricky part with wire fraud is that, unlike mail fraud, it must be “interstate” in nature. So a lot of guys think they;re safe on the wire fraud charge if their fraud was wholly done in-state to other in-state folks.

    But not so fast. Most feds get around this by getting some kind of statement from Google/Verizon/etc/ to the effect that an out-of-state cell phone tower or email server/client was accessed at one point. That’s happens a lot; if you’re ever near a state border or travelled out of state, your cell phone “pinged” a tower out of state. With email, email guys keep a lot of email machinery/virtual machinery in different states, its highly likely at least a few of your “in-state” emails went from your computer through some company software/hardware located out of state, and then came back to your recipient in-state. If it happens more than once, bang, wire fraud.

    So it wouldn’t be hard if you posed as a race you didn’t actually believe you were (genuine belief is different) and then used that to scam a college or some other government apparatchik and then be convicted of mail/wire fraud. The only question is whether the feds want to bother prosecuting you.

    I would recommend reading “Three Felonies a Day” to all those properly spooked here. Terrifying.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna

    The only question is whether the feds want to bother prosecuting you.
     
    Which is to say, you'd better not become the Great White Defendant.

    And yeah, that looks like a scary book alright.
    , @Some guy

    “remember Jerry, if you believe it, it is no lie”
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    I used to read all that from the Constitutionalists back in the day, and yes, they can get you on anything. However, they can't get 2 million entering freshman on anything. That's the thing the alt-right needs to understand. Learn a lesson from the 1960's. There's power in numbers. They can't fire 10,000 people, they can't even arrest 10,000 people together, much less put them on trial for mail fraud.

    POWER IN NUMBERS, people, because this IS a sham, no matter how you slice it, and there should be push-back from anyone who is in a position to do so. Lie, cheat 'em, BS 'em, whatever, until the whole system must be just shut down.
    , @propagandist hacker
    if you claim to be hispanic, you could never be convicted as long as you kept your mouth shut, unless your grandparents all came to america as european immigrants...but for most whites, who have ancestors going back into the 1800s or even earlier, the feds could not show beyond a reasonable doubt that you do not have an ancestor who lived in the portion of america controlled by spain or mexico (texas? new orleans?)...you have to show beyond a reasonable doubt, and the ancestry records are just not that good...
  17. Anon[745] • Disclaimer says:

    “There are lots of 1/128 Indian dipshits around who have a chip on their shoulders about their supposed Indianness.”

    And you hear about it every Columbus Day, too. Especially on social media like Facebook where old people hang out these days. White people with black ancestry claiming to be Indian to get sympathy fauxkemon points. It’s so embarrassing…but it’s supereffective.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    'fauxkemon' looks funny but sounds just right.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    Tell them to faux cough.
  18. @James Braxton
    18 U.S.C. 1343 - Mail/Wire fraud

    18 U.S.C. 1343 – Mail/Wire fraud

    Black, Hispanic, etc. on these applications is seldom, if ever, defined. You have plausible deniability.

    I’m not exactly sure universities, employers, lenders or most other groups who ask that information have any incentive to out you, either. Most of them, I think, are merely interested in being able to tell government regulators, college accreditation boards, various news entities, and random litigious groups that they have X percentage of (non-Asian) minorities. A significant percentage of them will never, ever bother to contradict you. If you tell them you’re black then that’s one more black they can report to have hired, lent money to, admitted as a student, etc. You may actually being doing a lot of them a big-ass favor.

    • Agree: GermanReader2
    • Replies: @James Braxton
    Tee it up and let the jury decide.
  19. @Flip
    I had business dealings with a very white appearing guy with an Irish surname who was a registered member of an Indian tribe and got governmental contract benefits as a result.
  20. Anon[128] • Disclaimer says:

    Other countries dont have to fool with this preference rigamarole. They just cede the space, give the job, or promote the best candidate, no matter what their DNA. Our ethnic spoils system assures we cant have this. So many lawyers and bureaucrats being paid to administer/litigate our policies that we would not have to pay. This stuff is a burden on our competitiveness.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    Yeah, but try explaining to some people that.
    , @Carol
    Not true. Thomas Sowell noted in Evonomics of Politics and Race all the other countries that had affirmative action, mainly in Asia. They don't work well and they never go away.
  21. Anon[745] • Disclaimer says:

    “Tucker Carlson 2020”

    I like him better where he is now. He’s one of only a very few voices in big media that represent the upper left quadrant of the political compass. The rest are all boomer free traders and Cold War leftovers or neoliberals. If Tucker runs, he’ll not only lose the primary but also lose his TV spot, likely permanently. I’m sure Fox would just replace his slot with an open borders, free-market Chamber of Commerce type and we have enough of those already.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Moldbug made a good case that we have a media-run state rather than a state-run media.
  22. Anon[354] • Disclaimer says:

    Or does any lawyer out there know exactly what law you could be charged with breaking?

    As I said here …

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/rick-singer-advised-white-parents-to-claim-their-kids-were-nonwhite-on-college-applications/#comment-3222831

    … the other day, I don’t think you really need to lie. Odds are, if any percent ancestry is all it takes, you probably have it for some minority. Also, as regular readers of Razib Khan know, different venders use different math based on different data, and you can shop around for a genetics testing company whose results are more to your liking.

    Honestly, when you read more detailed descriptions of how genetics testing works, it’s kind of a scam. It’s more probabilistic than accurate in the specific case. It’s perfectly fine for making group characterizations, like “African Americans are on average 25 percent African ancestry,’ but less accurate to determine the ancestry of an individual. Remember when everyone was 6 percent Neanderthal, and then a year later they dropped to 2 percent?

    • Replies: @OscarWildeLoveChild
    I think liberals and the commercial DNA testing are in a bind. Clearly, haplogroups are very accurate (mtDNA for your maternal line, Y-DNA for your father's), while autosomal DNA (which is more like who you really are, overall) show accurate representation between families and ethnic groups.

    People go to, and get out of prison based upon DNA, including relationship DNA (matching cousins narrowing down to a suspect). We also know that DNA by ethnicity is largely accurate, in that the majority of people groups maintain a distinct autosomal pattern that links families, to larger family groups to a people. Overlap is the problem, as well as early migration. Many people from the UK have very large amounts of Iberian heritage (particularly Celts, who likely came from N. Spain/Portugal). We know that many if not most Ashkenazi Jews have mtDNA of the K1 haplogroup.

    So government agencies and laws are going to have to actively dispute the results of major companies like 23andMe and Ancestry and MyHeritage if they are going to start claiming that a result of 10 percent sub-Saharan African ancestry really doesn't mean that. There are going to be a lot of economic pressures preventing politicians and government agencies from saying that. If anything, I think it will be the other way around. Having some non-white ancestry proven by a DNA test will become an important proof element in affirmative action and college/jobs. And the companies will put this, and (((others))) will push for more miscegenation to create this (not of their own people, just everyone else).
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    Remember when everyone was 6 percent Neanderthal, and then a year later they dropped to 2 percent?
     
    Flight from Neanderthal. See, Steve, that's a post, right there!
    , @Almost Missouri
    ..."my family comes from the Rift Valley in East Africa"...
  23. my half-Japanese cousin lied about her race, she claimed to be white on her college applications to avoid competing for the few Asian spots and was admitted to an Ivy league school. I am surprised more Asians don’t change their names and apply to college as white.

    Also surprised more Americans don’t do what Elizabeth Warren did and claim to be Native American. I knew lots of people who claimed to be 1/8 cherokee. Two were in my Fraternity , but they did not claim to be Indians to get into college. Seems like their is no downside to claiming Native American heritage, no need for any proof. Even most Cherokee tribe members are 97% Caucasian. But college applications do not require you to be a tribe member to claim Native American heritage and thus obtain special treatment and score bonus diversity points on your college application.

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))

    I am surprised more Asians don’t change their names and apply to college as white.
     
    They require your parents' names and places of birth, too, to catch any cunning and inscrutable Orientals trying to sneak in.
    , @HammerJack

    my half-Japanese cousin lied about her race, she claimed to be white on her college applications to avoid competing for the few Asian spots and was admitted to an Ivy league school.
     
    Right. Those "few Asian spots" range from 16% to 30% of recent entering classes, depending on the school and the year. And that's not even counting international students, who skew even more strongly Asian.

    I am surprised more Asians don’t change their names and apply to college as white.
     
    If your cousin were clever she'd change her surname to Bergman or Shekelstein. Or didn't she have to? And who's to say she wouldn't have gotten in anyway?

    Ahh..internet anecdotes. Let me tell you the one about my neighbor's grandfather who was turned down by this one country club back in the 1920s.... Hey where did everybody go....

    , @Anonymous

    my half-Japanese cousin lied about her race, she claimed to be white on her college applications to avoid competing for the few Asian spots and was admitted to an Ivy league school.
     
    Ashkenazi Jews are roughly 1/2 Asian.
    , @Wille
    Hmm, I'm native, and American, but not Native American?

    BTW, anyone else remember in the 1970s when the category was called "Hispanic and Spanish Surname"? With a little imagination, even Eisenhower could be a Spanish surname.
  24. Anon[354] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wilkey
    Evidently, so few white people cheat that it’s been allowed to remain a legal gray area for 50 years.

    It's 'been allowed to remain legal'?

    I would absolutely love to watch Congress pass a law that punished people who lied about their race or ethnicity in order to obtain utterly un-Constitutional, un-American race-based government handouts. That would make for fun campaign commercials for decades to come.

    Whatever the hell happens in this regard, do not let un-elected bureaucrats write "laws" banning such behavior in a manner that prevents the new laws from being debated before Congress.

    How is Congress going to define "black"? How is Congress going to define "Hispanic"? How is Congress going to define "sub-continental Indian"? How is Congress going to define "Hasidic Jew"?

    It's a legal grey area because Congress damn sure does not want to have that debate. That's why you can lie. Lie away.

    If we're going to do this quota shit let's finally make it explicit, shall we? Let's require Congress to have that debate.

    How is Congress going to define “black”? How is Congress going to define “Hispanic”? How is Congress going to define “sub-continental Indian”? How is Congress going to define “Hasidic Jew”?

    Lawsuits. Lots of lawsuits. Binders full of lawsuits.

    Some billionaire needs to underwrite a few dozen lawsuits by white guys claiming that they are minorities, each with a different story as far as percentage in testing, or family tradition. Get these to circuit appellate level, then have them all petition to the Supreme Court.

    The Supreme Court will come up with something, and it probably won’t be “this is up to college admissions employees.” Or maybe it will be. But the minute the rule become specific, it will be a target for legislators and regulators, at which point you’ll see quantitative systems appear.

  25. If John McCain had listed himself as hispanic, who could have proven he was lying? Can’t get him on fraud when he meets the technical definition (born in panama canal zone, ergo hispanic).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Of course. Same with Willard Romney.

    These are all scams, plain and simple.

    Everything they touch becomes just another racket.
  26. @Wilkey
    Evidently, so few white people cheat that it’s been allowed to remain a legal gray area for 50 years.

    It's 'been allowed to remain legal'?

    I would absolutely love to watch Congress pass a law that punished people who lied about their race or ethnicity in order to obtain utterly un-Constitutional, un-American race-based government handouts. That would make for fun campaign commercials for decades to come.

    Whatever the hell happens in this regard, do not let un-elected bureaucrats write "laws" banning such behavior in a manner that prevents the new laws from being debated before Congress.

    How is Congress going to define "black"? How is Congress going to define "Hispanic"? How is Congress going to define "sub-continental Indian"? How is Congress going to define "Hasidic Jew"?

    It's a legal grey area because Congress damn sure does not want to have that debate. That's why you can lie. Lie away.

    If we're going to do this quota shit let's finally make it explicit, shall we? Let's require Congress to have that debate.

    Congress will do what it has done for over 100 years. Let agencies and bureaucrats write the rules.

    And connected women like Fauxcahontas will get away with it. Joe Average spends years in jail.

    And yes HR explicitly verifies and corrects self reported ethnicity by law. It rather Fed regs which are laws.

    It’s not ok never ok to be White.

  27. Though lying about one’s race on a college application isn’t exactly a crime…

    This poses a philosophical quandary. If race doesn’t exist, either a) you can’t lie about it or b) everything you say about it is a lie.

    Perhaps both are true. Not a quandary, or paradox, but a koan.

    • Agree: Peter Johnson
  28. Anon[146] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    I was reading up on O’Sullivan’s First Law:

    All organizations that are not actually right-wing will over time become left-wing.

    This could be restated as “All organizations that are not openly offensive to SJWs will eventually be taken over by SJWs.” And those that are offensive to SJWs will be destroyed by them.

    This comes from a 1989 National Review column by a columnist named John O’Sullivan, a former Thatcher speechwriter:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20100715191034/http://old.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback-jos062603.asp

    That is explained by O’Sullivan’s First Law: All organizations that are not actually right-wing will over time become left-wing. I cite as supporting evidence the ACLU, the Ford Foundation, and the Episcopal Church. The reason is, of course, that people who staff such bodies tend to be the sort who don’t like private profit, business, making money, the current organization of society, and, by extension, the Western world. At which point Michels’s Iron Law of Oligarchy takes over — and the rest follows.

    Is there any law which enables us to predict the behavior of right-wing organizations? As it happens, there is: Conquest’s Second Law (formulated by the Sovietologist Robert Conquest):

    The behavior of an organization can best be predicted by assuming it to be controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies. Examples: virtually any conservative party anywhere, the Ronald Lauder for Mayor campaign, and the British secret service. That last example is, however, flawed, since the British secret service actually was controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies in the form of Kim Philby, Anthony Blunt, et al. In which case, Conquest’s Law should have operated to make M1-6 a crack anti-Soviet intelligence service of James Bond proportions. But these are deep waters.

    Anyway, the most interesting thing I learned about John O’Sullivan is this, from Wikipedia:

    O’Sullivan currently resides in Budapest with his wife Melissa.

    Is he in Budapest because Viktor “Build the Wall” Orbán’s Hungary is the only remaining European bolt hole for whites? Is his wife Hungarian? Does he have a gig in Hungary? Is it a comfortable but cheap retirement location with good medical care for elderly Europeans?

    It appears to be a gig, at least partially: He is the president of an outfit called the Danube Institute, and his wife is deputy director. So it’s something he founded … to have something to while away the hours in his bolt hole?

    http://www.danubeinstitute.hu/menu/staff

    He was awarded the Hungarian Order of Merit in February.

    Orbán thanked him for using his knowledge to act as a mentor for many Hungarians. Orbán acknowledged O’Sullivan’s efforts in learning the country’s culture and history despite being from elsewhere. He added that O’Sullivan is an ideal transmitter and functions as an “irreplaceable intermediator” between Hungary, the English-speaking world and the conservative Hungarian and Anglo-Saxon political and academic elite.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    a columnist named John O’Sullivan, a former Thatcher speechwriter:
     
    Just about everybody here knows who John O'Sullivan is.
    , @(((Owen)))
    Why is O'Sullivan's Law the same as Conquest's Second Law?
    , @Almost Missouri

    "a comfortable but cheap retirement location"
     
    I asked a Hungarian friend about the unoccupied property she owns back in the old country, specifically how much annual property tax she paid for a place no one was living in.

    Her answer: about $68.
  29. They’ve figured it out in Eastern Europe – Hungarian opera company singers identify as “African-American” to put on a performance of “Porgy and Bess”.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/10/arts/hungary-opera-porgy-and-bess.html

  30. Not a good strategy. A white kid who applies to Yale and tells them he’s black will get contacted by some local black alumnus — if not for the interview itself, then for some kind of “minority outreach” (one of various programs to ensure the black students bond with one another). And if he’s good enough, or almost good enough, to be admitted as a white kid, then he’ll draw all kinds of attention to his application.

    At that point, the jig be up. The kid will be denounced to the admissions office, ending any chance of admission. Moreover, the various universities’ admissions offices talk to one another, so now all the kid’s other applications get tossed. Maybe he gets exposed on social media too, so now he can kiss goodbye any hope of a career with any organization that has pretentions to wokeness (which is soon going to be everything above stockboy at Walmart).

    • Replies: @Travis
    whites can more easily get away with claiming hispanic or Native American heritage, although Rachel Dolezal was able to fool many for quite a few years

    Shaun King is still able to pull off the deception, despite having 2 white parents he was able to obtain a an Oprah scholarship to attend Morehouse College by claiming to have a black father..
    , @OscarWildeLoveChild
    Rachel Dolezal got away with it because of something no blacks want, or wanted to admit during the entire "uncovering". Rachel with her hair and slight tan (and her full lips, which many whites like her have) looked "as black woman" as many "black women" walking the streets of America. There are millions of (truly) black women like her, who even have the cliche "two black parents", even if true, both those parents are only 1/4 African descent.

    That's why there was muffled and akward silence online and everywhere else when someone would ask "how did she fool everyone so long/well". Everyone knows the answer, and many "light skinned" black women know it and were self-conscious about it. Light skinned is merely a euphemism for part white.
  31. From my comment on another thread, a comment on a Minnesota Public Radio piece about a school desegregation lawsuit (yes, they’re still happening) two years ago:

    Edison High school has determined that it costs them more in labor to manage the program of who qualifies for free or subsidizes meals than it is for them just to give a free meal to whoever wants one.

    Means testing doesn’t pay?

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    In a fair number of places, no.
  32. @Anon
    OT

    I was reading up on O'Sullivan's First Law:

    All organizations that are not actually right-wing will over time become left-wing.

    This could be restated as "All organizations that are not openly offensive to SJWs will eventually be taken over by SJWs." And those that are offensive to SJWs will be destroyed by them.

    This comes from a 1989 National Review column by a columnist named John O'Sullivan, a former Thatcher speechwriter:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20100715191034/http://old.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback-jos062603.asp


    That is explained by O'Sullivan's First Law: All organizations that are not actually right-wing will over time become left-wing. I cite as supporting evidence the ACLU, the Ford Foundation, and the Episcopal Church. The reason is, of course, that people who staff such bodies tend to be the sort who don't like private profit, business, making money, the current organization of society, and, by extension, the Western world. At which point Michels's Iron Law of Oligarchy takes over — and the rest follows.

    Is there any law which enables us to predict the behavior of right-wing organizations? As it happens, there is: Conquest's Second Law (formulated by the Sovietologist Robert Conquest):

    The behavior of an organization can best be predicted by assuming it to be controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies. Examples: virtually any conservative party anywhere, the Ronald Lauder for Mayor campaign, and the British secret service. That last example is, however, flawed, since the British secret service actually was controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies in the form of Kim Philby, Anthony Blunt, et al. In which case, Conquest's Law should have operated to make M1-6 a crack anti-Soviet intelligence service of James Bond proportions. But these are deep waters.
     

    Anyway, the most interesting thing I learned about John O'Sullivan is this, from Wikipedia:

    O'Sullivan currently resides in Budapest with his wife Melissa.
     
    Is he in Budapest because Viktor "Build the Wall" Orbán's Hungary is the only remaining European bolt hole for whites? Is his wife Hungarian? Does he have a gig in Hungary? Is it a comfortable but cheap retirement location with good medical care for elderly Europeans?

    It appears to be a gig, at least partially: He is the president of an outfit called the Danube Institute, and his wife is deputy director. So it's something he founded ... to have something to while away the hours in his bolt hole?

    http://www.danubeinstitute.hu/menu/staff

    He was awarded the Hungarian Order of Merit in February.


    Orbán thanked him for using his knowledge to act as a mentor for many Hungarians. Orbán acknowledged O’Sullivan’s efforts in learning the country’s culture and history despite being from elsewhere. He added that O’Sullivan is an ideal transmitter and functions as an “irreplaceable intermediator” between Hungary, the English-speaking world and the conservative Hungarian and Anglo-Saxon political and academic elite.
     

    a columnist named John O’Sullivan, a former Thatcher speechwriter:

    Just about everybody here knows who John O’Sullivan is.

  33. • Replies: @OscarWildeLoveChild
    that's actually funny. Reminds me of a blog post I saw before that had a pic of all the black "firsts" (courts, doctor's etc). They all looked to be about 90 percent white.
    , @Jordi
    We can discuss about the issue, or we can act about it. Apparently, Aussies are more into action !

    I think this will lead the way : if enough people file "Warren like" legally acceptable applications, based on true yet marginal minority ancestry, the "affirmative action premium" will be bypassed.

  34. @Anon
    "There are lots of 1/128 Indian dipshits around who have a chip on their shoulders about their supposed Indianness."

    And you hear about it every Columbus Day, too. Especially on social media like Facebook where old people hang out these days. White people with black ancestry claiming to be Indian to get sympathy fauxkemon points. It's so embarrassing...but it's supereffective.

    ‘fauxkemon’ looks funny but sounds just right.

  35. @Anon
    "There are lots of 1/128 Indian dipshits around who have a chip on their shoulders about their supposed Indianness."

    And you hear about it every Columbus Day, too. Especially on social media like Facebook where old people hang out these days. White people with black ancestry claiming to be Indian to get sympathy fauxkemon points. It's so embarrassing...but it's supereffective.

    Tell them to faux cough.

  36. @216
    Why must we be disrespected?

    https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1130279473214050305

    “You … have to have a world of some practicality,”

    President-In-Law Kushner jewsplained to God Umpire that E-verify is so unpopular that 80% of Americans want Trump Family to start personally taking care of all of his golf courses:

    E-Verify has proved effective at keeping immigrants who are in the country illegally from taking American jobs.

    In Arizona, which pioneered the mandatory checks in 2008, the number of unauthorized workers dropped 33 percent below what was projected without the requirement, according to a 2017 analysis by the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas.

    The federal employment verification system, introduced more than 20 years ago, has wide public support.

    Nearly 80 percent of those surveyed last fall by The Washington Post and ABC News support requiring employers to verify new hires are legally living in the United States – more than double the support for building a wall along the Mexico border.

    Trump last October listed E-Verify among his immigration priorities and in February, requested $23 million in his 2019 budget proposal to expand the program for mandatory nationwide use.

    He uses E-Verify at his golf club in North Carolina, where the worker checks are required by state law, as well as other entities in Chicago, Miami and New York, according to an E-Verify database of participating employers.

    But it is unclear whether E-Verify checks are performed across Trump’s entire domestic portfolio of hotels and golf clubs.

    Trump Organization and White House officials have not responded to Post inquiries.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-is-very-weak-on-this-one-popular-way-to-curb-illegal-immigration/2018/05/22/adf5f85e-399b-11e8-acd5-35eac230e514_story.html?utm_term=.6bb1d1064a8b&noredirect=on

    https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2018/05/22/trump-rising-wages-are-nightmare-says-restauranteur/

    Also, interesting flashback from 2006:

    “Bloomberg, who co-hosts a Friday radio talk show on WABC, was discussing the controversial immigration bills in Congress that have resulted in protests across the nation when he was asked to name a typical menial job an illegal immigrant might do.

    The mayor, an avid duffer, immediately thought of golf.

    “You and I are beneficiaries of these jobs,” Bloomberg told his co-host, John Gambling.

    “You and I both play golf.

    Who takes care of the greens and the fairways in your golf course?”

    (…)
    Bloomberg also voiced support, for the first time, for a proposal to build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, a measure denounced by many supporters of illegal immigration

    https://www.upi.com/Bloomberg-Illegal-immigrants-help-golfers/85421143938311/

    https://www.wnd.com/2006/04/35527/

    • Replies: @anon
    People mowing is going the way of the buggy whip. Robot mowers are getting cheaper by the year, and Cub Cadet even has a fancy reel mower model to clip golf course greens.
  37. Anon[520] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    Paging Amy Harmon. Here’s another of that rare species, a black mathematician: Jonathan Farley, a professor at Morgan State in Maryland, an HBCU.

    He’s in the news because a Russian (Siberian) mail order bride 20 years his junior defrauded him of $50,000. That’s his side of the story at least.

    https://www.wmar2news.com/matterformallory/local-professor-says-he-lost-50-000-after-being-deceived-by-a-russian-mail-order-bride

    These Russian chicks play a long game: They dated for three years, whatever dating means in this context. The chick’s parents, who he visited, were in Turkey, so it sounds like she was an immigrant to Russia.

    She apparently started spending money like crazy … at places like Wall-Mart and Bed, Bath and Beyond, up to $12,000 per month. When he shut down the money hose, she sold all the stuff in his apartment and went back to Turkey. He still hasn’t been able to get divorced. She go a green card out of it.

    And to think that there are so many unmarried black ladies in Maryland.

    He does actually come across as a nice guy, and he’s pretty embarrassed about the whole episode.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Wasn't there a crazier story involving a white math professor who wound up in jail in Latin America over some gold-digger?

    American math professors are probably seen as easy pickings by a certain type of golddigger.

    , @The Big Red Scary
    Here's the professional part of his website (http://www.latticetheory.net/mathematics/index.shtml).

    It seems he is

    1) Jamaican
    2) a competent but not exceptional mathematician
    3) an up-standing scientific citizen

    It's a real shame he made such an unwise decision in marriage and I hope he does well a second time around. I blame Putin, who must keep a list of successful black scientists and personally order Siberian honeypots to go ruin their lives.

    , @Calvin Hobbes

    Paging Amy Harmon. Here’s another of that rare species, a black mathematician: Jonathan Farley, a professor at Morgan State in Maryland, an HBCU.

    He’s in the news because a Russian (Siberian) mail order bride 20 years his junior defrauded him of $50,000. That’s his side of the story at least.
     
    Jonathan Farely is a pretty smart guy, also an a-hole. Hearing about how he got scammed just brightened my day.

    Vanderbilt professor outrages Confederate progeny
    Says Rebel soldiers deserved gallows

    http://theothermccain.com/2010/12/30/white-nationalist-propaganda/

    Black mathematicians: the kind of problems they wish didn't need solving
    Jonathan Farley

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/apr/12/black-mathematicians-john-derbyshire-fields-medal

    Derbyshire On Race And The International Math Olympiad

    https://vdare.com/articles/derbyshire-on-race-and-the-international-math-olympiad

    Scroll down in this last one for stuff about Farely.
    , @Almost Missouri
    https://i0.wp.com/www.greyjabesi.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/jonathan-farley.jpg
    , @Anon
    What, she wasn't charmed by his appearane, smarts, or conversations? I wonder how many other relatively poor women are misleading rich men otherwise endowed with very very big a-brains.
    , @Anon
    Lots of nerdy book smart guys are not street smart. They are prime targets for scheming women.
    , @Triumph104
    Farley might be going public about the marriage because he is worried about being Metoo'd. True or not, Farley's wife may have accused him of abuse when she left. If a foreign spouse claims abuse they receive their green card immediately. It is not uncommon for foreign brides to start arguments in the hopes that their husband will react in an abusive manner. It is also possible that Farley's wife has recently reappeared looking for money.
  38. @International Jew
    Not a good strategy. A white kid who applies to Yale and tells them he's black will get contacted by some local black alumnus — if not for the interview itself, then for some kind of "minority outreach" (one of various programs to ensure the black students bond with one another). And if he's good enough, or almost good enough, to be admitted as a white kid, then he'll draw all kinds of attention to his application.

    At that point, the jig be up. The kid will be denounced to the admissions office, ending any chance of admission. Moreover, the various universities' admissions offices talk to one another, so now all the kid's other applications get tossed. Maybe he gets exposed on social media too, so now he can kiss goodbye any hope of a career with any organization that has pretentions to wokeness (which is soon going to be everything above stockboy at Walmart).

    whites can more easily get away with claiming hispanic or Native American heritage, although Rachel Dolezal was able to fool many for quite a few years

    Shaun King is still able to pull off the deception, despite having 2 white parents he was able to obtain a an Oprah scholarship to attend Morehouse College by claiming to have a black father..

  39. @Anon
    OT

    Paging Amy Harmon. Here's another of that rare species, a black mathematician: Jonathan Farley, a professor at Morgan State in Maryland, an HBCU.

    He's in the news because a Russian (Siberian) mail order bride 20 years his junior defrauded him of $50,000. That's his side of the story at least.

    https://www.wmar2news.com/matterformallory/local-professor-says-he-lost-50-000-after-being-deceived-by-a-russian-mail-order-bride

    These Russian chicks play a long game: They dated for three years, whatever dating means in this context. The chick's parents, who he visited, were in Turkey, so it sounds like she was an immigrant to Russia.

    She apparently started spending money like crazy ... at places like Wall-Mart and Bed, Bath and Beyond, up to $12,000 per month. When he shut down the money hose, she sold all the stuff in his apartment and went back to Turkey. He still hasn't been able to get divorced. She go a green card out of it.

    And to think that there are so many unmarried black ladies in Maryland.

    He does actually come across as a nice guy, and he's pretty embarrassed about the whole episode.

    Wasn’t there a crazier story involving a white math professor who wound up in jail in Latin America over some gold-digger?

    American math professors are probably seen as easy pickings by a certain type of golddigger.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    English physics professor.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Frampton

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/magazine/the-professor-the-bikini-model-and-the-suitcase-full-of-trouble.html
    , @njguy73
    And then there's this male math professor, who's dug gold off women.

    https://nypost.com/2017/06/17/sperminator-has-sired-dozens-of-kids-and-there-could-be-more-coming/

    , @anonymous
    Paul Frampton is a theoretical physicist. He wrote a book about it: https://motls.blogspot.com/2015/01/paul-frampton-releases-book-about-his.html
    , @anonymous
    Paul Frampton is a theoretical physicist. He wrote a book about it: https://motls.blogspot.com/2015/01/paul-frampton-releases-book-about-his.html
    , @Helo
    Yes...the victim of a catfishing scheme.
  40. @Anon
    Apparently, it could be a felony if you submit a false application and then take and disburse federal loan funds in the process. This guy, Adam Wheeler, lied on his Harvard application and got years in prison (20 charges, including felony counts). Meanwhile, Jussie Smollet lied about a race hoax, wasted police time, wasted maybe 100k in police resources, filed a false police report, and then walked:

    "[Adam] Wheeler pleaded guilty Thursday afternoon to all 20 counts against him, admitting that he duped the Harvard admissions office and defrauded the University out of over $40,000 in grants and prizes. Upon pleading guilty to 20 misdemeanor and felony counts of larceny, identity fraud, falsifying an endorsement or approval, and pretending to hold a degree, Wheeler was sentenced by Associate Justice Diane M. Kottmyer to 10 years probation. He was also ordered to make restitution of $45,806 to Harvard University and to continue the psychological treatment that he had begun since his arrest. ... he dishonestly gained admission to Harvard by fabricating SAT scores, falsifying letters of recommendation, and forging high school and college transcripts."

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010/12/16/harvard-wheeler-college-guilty/

    He didn't lie about his race, though. Funny that the guy would lie about everything BUT that. I guess the legal aspect of race misidentification is still a bit murky as noted in the article. What Adam Wheeler did was obviously fraud, but how do you prove someone isn't a member of one group or another, and do you let it slide if they honestly think they are? As an aside, you have to admit that rich people sure care about the integrity of their kids' schools. They even sent this guy to be reeducated (psychological counseling) for his crime.

    That article is good in that it explicitly recognizes that admissions is a zero-sum game:

    Assistant District Attorney John Verner said during Thursday’s hearing that Wheeler’s dishonesty not only took money from Harvard’s coffers but harmed unknown students who might have earned the spot at Harvard …

  41. @Wilkey
    Evidently, so few white people cheat that it’s been allowed to remain a legal gray area for 50 years.

    It's 'been allowed to remain legal'?

    I would absolutely love to watch Congress pass a law that punished people who lied about their race or ethnicity in order to obtain utterly un-Constitutional, un-American race-based government handouts. That would make for fun campaign commercials for decades to come.

    Whatever the hell happens in this regard, do not let un-elected bureaucrats write "laws" banning such behavior in a manner that prevents the new laws from being debated before Congress.

    How is Congress going to define "black"? How is Congress going to define "Hispanic"? How is Congress going to define "sub-continental Indian"? How is Congress going to define "Hasidic Jew"?

    It's a legal grey area because Congress damn sure does not want to have that debate. That's why you can lie. Lie away.

    If we're going to do this quota shit let's finally make it explicit, shall we? Let's require Congress to have that debate.

    South Africa had a system to deal with all this and it worked perfectly. Everyone had a racial registration and was classified by ancestry, skin color, hair type, and various other characteristics into clear and objective groupings.

    Soon the new America population will need a similar system to divide up the spoils of the nation the ancestral Americans built.

  42. There should be a distinction drawn between “lying” about one’s race/ethnicity, versus playing up a distant connection. The former might be some kind of crime, although probably easy to wiggle out of if it was allegedly based on “family lore” (e.g., Senator Elizabeth Warren). The latter, however, probably isn’t forbidden in any way.

    Starting with the most vague: Hispanic. The Census defines “Hispanic” as linked to “culture or origin.” Someone with a distant relative from Latin America could claim to be Hispanic and would not violate the letter of any law or policy. I’ve known several Jewish students who did this via a family connection to Argentina. These were kids who did not have Spanish names and did not speak any Spanish at all.

    The Hispanic Scholarship Fund tries to be more concrete about how one qualifies:

    To qualify for this program, students must be at least one-quarter Hispanic/Latino (meaning: at least one of your Grandparents must be Hispanic). Hispanic/Latino is an ethnic category, not a racial category; students may be of any race. For purposes of the Hispanic Scholarship Fund, students must be from a family whose ancestors came from at least one of these countries: Argentina, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Portugal, Puerto Rico, El Salvador, Spain, Uruguay, or Venezuela.

    https://www.hsf.net/student

    However, this is not binding on any other organization.

    For race, the Census is based on “self-identification” about “having origins” in particular geographical regions.

    https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html

    Everyone knows what they mean by this, but the written policy itself is vague and open-ended. I don’t see how someone with a prima facie claim of “origins” in a particular geographical region could be accused of fraud, even if their claim is very distant or even fanciful (e.g., again, Senator Elizabeth Warren).

    One takeaway from all of this is that, as Sailer has called it, the current “flight from white” is certainly distorting our statistics, in light of both the incentive to claim non-white ancestry, and the practice of counting people of mixed heritage as entirely non-white. In the end, colleges, and probably the United States in general, are far whiter than statistics would suggest.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    The Hispanic Scholarship Fund's list of countries is inclusive. People from Belize, Brazil, and Portugal used to not be considered Hispanic. Years ago, some organizations didn't even consider people from Spain to be Hispanic.

    The term African-American was created so that new immigrants from North and East Africa who didn't consider themselves black could qualify for affirmative action. Someone got Jesse Jackson to pretend that he coined the term African-American so that it would be easily accepted by native blacks.
  43. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Patrick in SC
    You have to submit a copy of your birth certificate in order to take the LSAT and apply to ABA accredited law schools. At least you did 29 years go.

    I'm just wondering if this is where we are headed with college applications.

    How would Barry Soetoro have gained admission ? As a foreign student presumably. You may have nailed the whole genesis of the long running mystery.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    There was a guy claiming that Obama went to college as Soetoro to get his way paid for college. In turn, he volunteered information about his fellow "foreign students" to the CIA. Don't know if it's true, but it sounds plausible.
  44. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    … According to the applications Singer’s operation handled, applicants claimed to be underrepresented minorities based on a weak connection such as a distant relative of Native American ancestry.
     
    A "distant" relative is a relative. A "weak" connection is a connection nonetheless.

    You either have ancestry or you don't. If these people have the connection they claim, they have African or Hispanic ancestry and should qualify for preferences.

    Hispanics, descendants of the two groups that most actively opposed the creation of the English speaking colonies and nations in the Americas.
    Now desperate to escape their own corrupt failed societies, should be viewed negatively by the peoples they tried to destroy.

  45. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Couch Scientist
    If John McCain had listed himself as hispanic, who could have proven he was lying? Can't get him on fraud when he meets the technical definition (born in panama canal zone, ergo hispanic).

    Of course. Same with Willard Romney.

    These are all scams, plain and simple.

    Everything they touch becomes just another racket.

  46. @Ray Huffman
    There are lots of 1/128 Indian dipshits around who have a chip on their shoulders about their supposed Indianness. If you've never encountered one of them, lucky you.

    Welcome to Oklahoma!

  47. “Or does any lawyer out there know exactly what law you could be charged with breaking?”

    Sure, any of a few hundred fraud statutes or the tort of fraud at common law; It would be great to see a jurisdiction or university go the distance needed to prove the applicant lied, because they would very quickly get into “one drop” and various related discussions that smack of Jim Crow or the Third Reich’s sanguinity laws.

    BTW, notice that Smollett walks on a Hate Crime, but Huffman faces jail time for a White Collar Crime? Yes, indeed, there are at least four systems of justice in the US.

  48. @Travis
    my half-Japanese cousin lied about her race, she claimed to be white on her college applications to avoid competing for the few Asian spots and was admitted to an Ivy league school. I am surprised more Asians don't change their names and apply to college as white.

    Also surprised more Americans don't do what Elizabeth Warren did and claim to be Native American. I knew lots of people who claimed to be 1/8 cherokee. Two were in my Fraternity , but they did not claim to be Indians to get into college. Seems like their is no downside to claiming Native American heritage, no need for any proof. Even most Cherokee tribe members are 97% Caucasian. But college applications do not require you to be a tribe member to claim Native American heritage and thus obtain special treatment and score bonus diversity points on your college application.

    I am surprised more Asians don’t change their names and apply to college as white.

    They require your parents’ names and places of birth, too, to catch any cunning and inscrutable Orientals trying to sneak in.

  49. @Anon
    OT

    I was reading up on O'Sullivan's First Law:

    All organizations that are not actually right-wing will over time become left-wing.

    This could be restated as "All organizations that are not openly offensive to SJWs will eventually be taken over by SJWs." And those that are offensive to SJWs will be destroyed by them.

    This comes from a 1989 National Review column by a columnist named John O'Sullivan, a former Thatcher speechwriter:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20100715191034/http://old.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback-jos062603.asp


    That is explained by O'Sullivan's First Law: All organizations that are not actually right-wing will over time become left-wing. I cite as supporting evidence the ACLU, the Ford Foundation, and the Episcopal Church. The reason is, of course, that people who staff such bodies tend to be the sort who don't like private profit, business, making money, the current organization of society, and, by extension, the Western world. At which point Michels's Iron Law of Oligarchy takes over — and the rest follows.

    Is there any law which enables us to predict the behavior of right-wing organizations? As it happens, there is: Conquest's Second Law (formulated by the Sovietologist Robert Conquest):

    The behavior of an organization can best be predicted by assuming it to be controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies. Examples: virtually any conservative party anywhere, the Ronald Lauder for Mayor campaign, and the British secret service. That last example is, however, flawed, since the British secret service actually was controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies in the form of Kim Philby, Anthony Blunt, et al. In which case, Conquest's Law should have operated to make M1-6 a crack anti-Soviet intelligence service of James Bond proportions. But these are deep waters.
     

    Anyway, the most interesting thing I learned about John O'Sullivan is this, from Wikipedia:

    O'Sullivan currently resides in Budapest with his wife Melissa.
     
    Is he in Budapest because Viktor "Build the Wall" Orbán's Hungary is the only remaining European bolt hole for whites? Is his wife Hungarian? Does he have a gig in Hungary? Is it a comfortable but cheap retirement location with good medical care for elderly Europeans?

    It appears to be a gig, at least partially: He is the president of an outfit called the Danube Institute, and his wife is deputy director. So it's something he founded ... to have something to while away the hours in his bolt hole?

    http://www.danubeinstitute.hu/menu/staff

    He was awarded the Hungarian Order of Merit in February.


    Orbán thanked him for using his knowledge to act as a mentor for many Hungarians. Orbán acknowledged O’Sullivan’s efforts in learning the country’s culture and history despite being from elsewhere. He added that O’Sullivan is an ideal transmitter and functions as an “irreplaceable intermediator” between Hungary, the English-speaking world and the conservative Hungarian and Anglo-Saxon political and academic elite.
     

    Why is O’Sullivan’s Law the same as Conquest’s Second Law?

  50. This topic always requires me to share the anecdote of the tall buxom blonde sorority girl I was acquainted with in college in the early 90s who was somehow a registered member of a Pacific NW Indian tribe. That was the only way she could have gotten admitted, she was quite dumb.

  51. @R.G. Camara
    Mail fraud and wire fraud are classic "catch all" crimes that a good federal prosecutor can get to stick against many defendants that they can't nail with any other crime. These are deliberately broadly-worded crimes, so any misstatement you make that is in any way self-serving can be a "crime". They would work here.

    Mail fraud is pretty straightforward; did you make any of your self-serving misstaments via the U.S. mail (or UPS/Fedex)? Did you do it more than once? Bang; mail fraud. Doesn't even have to be interstate, because the post office is federal.

    Wire fraud is even more broad. "Wire", originally, was applied to phone calls and telegrams sent interstate. Now, "wire" has been interpreted to be email and text messages as well.

    The tricky part with wire fraud is that, unlike mail fraud, it must be "interstate" in nature. So a lot of guys think they;re safe on the wire fraud charge if their fraud was wholly done in-state to other in-state folks.

    But not so fast. Most feds get around this by getting some kind of statement from Google/Verizon/etc/ to the effect that an out-of-state cell phone tower or email server/client was accessed at one point. That's happens a lot; if you're ever near a state border or travelled out of state, your cell phone "pinged" a tower out of state. With email, email guys keep a lot of email machinery/virtual machinery in different states, its highly likely at least a few of your "in-state" emails went from your computer through some company software/hardware located out of state, and then came back to your recipient in-state. If it happens more than once, bang, wire fraud.

    So it wouldn't be hard if you posed as a race you didn't actually believe you were (genuine belief is different) and then used that to scam a college or some other government apparatchik and then be convicted of mail/wire fraud. The only question is whether the feds want to bother prosecuting you.

    I would recommend reading "Three Felonies a Day" to all those properly spooked here. Terrifying.

    The only question is whether the feds want to bother prosecuting you.

    Which is to say, you’d better not become the Great White Defendant.

    And yeah, that looks like a scary book alright.

  52. @Travis
    my half-Japanese cousin lied about her race, she claimed to be white on her college applications to avoid competing for the few Asian spots and was admitted to an Ivy league school. I am surprised more Asians don't change their names and apply to college as white.

    Also surprised more Americans don't do what Elizabeth Warren did and claim to be Native American. I knew lots of people who claimed to be 1/8 cherokee. Two were in my Fraternity , but they did not claim to be Indians to get into college. Seems like their is no downside to claiming Native American heritage, no need for any proof. Even most Cherokee tribe members are 97% Caucasian. But college applications do not require you to be a tribe member to claim Native American heritage and thus obtain special treatment and score bonus diversity points on your college application.

    my half-Japanese cousin lied about her race, she claimed to be white on her college applications to avoid competing for the few Asian spots and was admitted to an Ivy league school.

    Right. Those “few Asian spots” range from 16% to 30% of recent entering classes, depending on the school and the year. And that’s not even counting international students, who skew even more strongly Asian.

    I am surprised more Asians don’t change their names and apply to college as white.

    If your cousin were clever she’d change her surname to Bergman or Shekelstein. Or didn’t she have to? And who’s to say she wouldn’t have gotten in anyway?

    Ahh..internet anecdotes. Let me tell you the one about my neighbor’s grandfather who was turned down by this one country club back in the 1920s…. Hey where did everybody go….

    • Replies: @Travis
    she did not actually have to change her name, since her birth name is Irish. She was born in Japan on an American military base. She attended High School in the United States. While working on Wall Street 3 of my co-workers were half Asian with English surnames. They attended Ivy league schools and identified as white.

    Lanya was born in Florida to a mother who immigrated from Taiwan and an American father of Norwegian ancestry. Ethnically, she considers herself half Taiwanese and half Norwegian. But when applying to Harvard, Lanya checked only one box for her race: white. Lanya is a freshman at Harvard and a member of HAPA, the Half-Asian People's Association.

    Amalia Halikias is a Yale freshman whose mother was born in America to Chinese immigrants; her father is a Greek immigrant. She also checked only the "white" box on her application. "As someone who was applying with relatively strong scores, I didn't want to be grouped into that stereotype," Halikias says. "I didn't want to be written off as one of the 1.4 billion Asians that were applying.".."If you know you're going to be discriminated against, it's absolutely justifiable to not check the Asian box," says Halikias.
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2011-12-03/asian-students-college-applications/51620236/1

    Hard to verify how common this is. But I personally know 5 half Asians who passed as white, due to their surnames. It must be more common today.
  53. @Anon
    OT

    Paging Amy Harmon. Here's another of that rare species, a black mathematician: Jonathan Farley, a professor at Morgan State in Maryland, an HBCU.

    He's in the news because a Russian (Siberian) mail order bride 20 years his junior defrauded him of $50,000. That's his side of the story at least.

    https://www.wmar2news.com/matterformallory/local-professor-says-he-lost-50-000-after-being-deceived-by-a-russian-mail-order-bride

    These Russian chicks play a long game: They dated for three years, whatever dating means in this context. The chick's parents, who he visited, were in Turkey, so it sounds like she was an immigrant to Russia.

    She apparently started spending money like crazy ... at places like Wall-Mart and Bed, Bath and Beyond, up to $12,000 per month. When he shut down the money hose, she sold all the stuff in his apartment and went back to Turkey. He still hasn't been able to get divorced. She go a green card out of it.

    And to think that there are so many unmarried black ladies in Maryland.

    He does actually come across as a nice guy, and he's pretty embarrassed about the whole episode.

    Here’s the professional part of his website (http://www.latticetheory.net/mathematics/index.shtml).

    It seems he is

    1) Jamaican
    2) a competent but not exceptional mathematician
    3) an up-standing scientific citizen

    It’s a real shame he made such an unwise decision in marriage and I hope he does well a second time around. I blame Putin, who must keep a list of successful black scientists and personally order Siberian honeypots to go ruin their lives.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Jonathan Farley has one parent from Jamaica and the other from Guyana. Both parents have PhD's, his father's from the London School of Economics. Farley and his three brothers all attended Harvard.

    http://www.math.buffalo.edu/mad/PEEPS/farley_jonathan.html
    , @al anon
    And piss on their beds?
  54. @Anon
    Other countries dont have to fool with this preference rigamarole. They just cede the space, give the job, or promote the best candidate, no matter what their DNA. Our ethnic spoils system assures we cant have this. So many lawyers and bureaucrats being paid to administer/litigate our policies that we would not have to pay. This stuff is a burden on our competitiveness.

    Yeah, but try explaining to some people that.

  55. @Reg Cæsar
    From my comment on another thread, a comment on a Minnesota Public Radio piece about a school desegregation lawsuit (yes, they're still happening) two years ago:

    Edison High school has determined that it costs them more in labor to manage the program of who qualifies for free or subsidizes meals than it is for them just to give a free meal to whoever wants one.
     
    Means testing doesn't pay?

    In a fair number of places, no.

  56. @Anonymous
    How would Barry Soetoro have gained admission ? As a foreign student presumably. You may have nailed the whole genesis of the long running mystery.

    There was a guy claiming that Obama went to college as Soetoro to get his way paid for college. In turn, he volunteered information about his fellow “foreign students” to the CIA. Don’t know if it’s true, but it sounds plausible.

  57. @Steve Sailer
    Wasn't there a crazier story involving a white math professor who wound up in jail in Latin America over some gold-digger?

    American math professors are probably seen as easy pickings by a certain type of golddigger.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    In Dr. Frampton's defense, he was confronted by the pulchritudinous Terminator.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSBOZt2UkAAgSqo.jpg

    Resistance is futile.

    Our local Indians, the Wampanoags, carry the blood of a few different "tribes". The current tribal chairman is a good example.

    https://cbsboston.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/mashpeewompanoagcasino.jpg?w=420&h=316&crop=1

    How many boxes could he check?
  58. I could claim American Indian ancestry. I am descended from a daughter (who married a New England Puritan) of Algonquin Indian chief Terramuggus. Her name was Rebecca, and she was a convert to Christianity. You now can trace these things back (my aunt went to the trouble) using the Internet at some libraries. I first heard of it from family lore.

    By the way, I know from my dealings with them that Asians are good at gaming the system. They seem to network on how to pull this stuff off. It is almost a sport in itself for them.

  59. no, just insist that you have “xxx” ancestory and there is nothing anyone can do. they cannot compel you to take a “dna test” (you are not under arrest) and no one can force you to show documentation, unless they have a warrent or a subpoena.. what the hell, you are just applying for college..!

    • Agree: Prodigal son
    • Replies: @epochehusserl
    On all forms from now on I list hispanic as my race, I dont think there is anything they can do about it.
  60. @johnl99
    no, just insist that you have "xxx" ancestory and there is nothing anyone can do. they cannot compel you to take a "dna test" (you are not under arrest) and no one can force you to show documentation, unless they have a warrent or a subpoena.. what the hell, you are just applying for college..!

    On all forms from now on I list hispanic as my race, I dont think there is anything they can do about it.

  61. @Anonymous

    … According to the applications Singer’s operation handled, applicants claimed to be underrepresented minorities based on a weak connection such as a distant relative of Native American ancestry.
     
    A "distant" relative is a relative. A "weak" connection is a connection nonetheless.

    You either have ancestry or you don't. If these people have the connection they claim, they have African or Hispanic ancestry and should qualify for preferences.

    A few months ago nearly all of the hosts of fox News did an ancestry test and shared the results in their shows. According to the tests both ainsley earhardt and Jesse Watters are about 0.5% black. Are you okay with them being listed as black journalists? Do you think it is okay for their kids to get affirmative action?

    • Replies: @Jordi
    [quote] A few months ago nearly all of the hosts of fox News did an ancestry test and shared the results in their shows. According to the tests both ainsley earhardt and Jesse Watters are about 0.5% black. Are you okay with them being listed as black journalists? Do you think it is okay for their kids to get affirmative action?
    [/quote]

    Yes

    This is the only way against AA that has a reasonnable long term chance of success. Make it irrelevant, or send the left into racial point theories that will consume it into an internal war. Both options are a win for us.

    The worst that could happen is that this would force everyone to admit that "black" is equivalent to "+200 SAT points" on an application form. Something that would redpill more than a few people, especially when the debate shifts to "how much should "50% black" be worth.

  62. @Wilkey
    18 U.S.C. 1343 – Mail/Wire fraud

    Black, Hispanic, etc. on these applications is seldom, if ever, defined. You have plausible deniability.

    I'm not exactly sure universities, employers, lenders or most other groups who ask that information have any incentive to out you, either. Most of them, I think, are merely interested in being able to tell government regulators, college accreditation boards, various news entities, and random litigious groups that they have X percentage of (non-Asian) minorities. A significant percentage of them will never, ever bother to contradict you. If you tell them you're black then that's one more black they can report to have hired, lent money to, admitted as a student, etc. You may actually being doing a lot of them a big-ass favor.

    Tee it up and let the jury decide.

  63. @R.G. Camara
    Mail fraud and wire fraud are classic "catch all" crimes that a good federal prosecutor can get to stick against many defendants that they can't nail with any other crime. These are deliberately broadly-worded crimes, so any misstatement you make that is in any way self-serving can be a "crime". They would work here.

    Mail fraud is pretty straightforward; did you make any of your self-serving misstaments via the U.S. mail (or UPS/Fedex)? Did you do it more than once? Bang; mail fraud. Doesn't even have to be interstate, because the post office is federal.

    Wire fraud is even more broad. "Wire", originally, was applied to phone calls and telegrams sent interstate. Now, "wire" has been interpreted to be email and text messages as well.

    The tricky part with wire fraud is that, unlike mail fraud, it must be "interstate" in nature. So a lot of guys think they;re safe on the wire fraud charge if their fraud was wholly done in-state to other in-state folks.

    But not so fast. Most feds get around this by getting some kind of statement from Google/Verizon/etc/ to the effect that an out-of-state cell phone tower or email server/client was accessed at one point. That's happens a lot; if you're ever near a state border or travelled out of state, your cell phone "pinged" a tower out of state. With email, email guys keep a lot of email machinery/virtual machinery in different states, its highly likely at least a few of your "in-state" emails went from your computer through some company software/hardware located out of state, and then came back to your recipient in-state. If it happens more than once, bang, wire fraud.

    So it wouldn't be hard if you posed as a race you didn't actually believe you were (genuine belief is different) and then used that to scam a college or some other government apparatchik and then be convicted of mail/wire fraud. The only question is whether the feds want to bother prosecuting you.

    I would recommend reading "Three Felonies a Day" to all those properly spooked here. Terrifying.

    “remember Jerry, if you believe it, it is no lie”

  64. @Patrick in SC
    You have to submit a copy of your birth certificate in order to take the LSAT and apply to ABA accredited law schools. At least you did 29 years go.

    I'm just wondering if this is where we are headed with college applications.

    You have to submit a copy of your birth certificate in order to take the LSAT and apply to ABA accredited law schools.

    The birth certificate does not prove anything but what your parents believed about themselves. Or what the doctor or nurse filling out the form thought. Depending on that subjective document will be pretty difficult I think. With today’s widespread genetic testing virtually any long term, multi-generational white, or otherwise, American will have infinitesimal traces of, shall we say, different ethnic backgrounds. 23&me tells me I have .4% East Asian & American Indian. Considering how long numerous branches of my pedigree on this continent I can assume it is American Indian. My wife has the same percentage of the same category. For her, whose earliest ancestors got here after 1880 from Poland, it looks like the Tartar invasion figures in her parentage.

  65. @Anon
    OT

    I was reading up on O'Sullivan's First Law:

    All organizations that are not actually right-wing will over time become left-wing.

    This could be restated as "All organizations that are not openly offensive to SJWs will eventually be taken over by SJWs." And those that are offensive to SJWs will be destroyed by them.

    This comes from a 1989 National Review column by a columnist named John O'Sullivan, a former Thatcher speechwriter:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20100715191034/http://old.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback-jos062603.asp


    That is explained by O'Sullivan's First Law: All organizations that are not actually right-wing will over time become left-wing. I cite as supporting evidence the ACLU, the Ford Foundation, and the Episcopal Church. The reason is, of course, that people who staff such bodies tend to be the sort who don't like private profit, business, making money, the current organization of society, and, by extension, the Western world. At which point Michels's Iron Law of Oligarchy takes over — and the rest follows.

    Is there any law which enables us to predict the behavior of right-wing organizations? As it happens, there is: Conquest's Second Law (formulated by the Sovietologist Robert Conquest):

    The behavior of an organization can best be predicted by assuming it to be controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies. Examples: virtually any conservative party anywhere, the Ronald Lauder for Mayor campaign, and the British secret service. That last example is, however, flawed, since the British secret service actually was controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies in the form of Kim Philby, Anthony Blunt, et al. In which case, Conquest's Law should have operated to make M1-6 a crack anti-Soviet intelligence service of James Bond proportions. But these are deep waters.
     

    Anyway, the most interesting thing I learned about John O'Sullivan is this, from Wikipedia:

    O'Sullivan currently resides in Budapest with his wife Melissa.
     
    Is he in Budapest because Viktor "Build the Wall" Orbán's Hungary is the only remaining European bolt hole for whites? Is his wife Hungarian? Does he have a gig in Hungary? Is it a comfortable but cheap retirement location with good medical care for elderly Europeans?

    It appears to be a gig, at least partially: He is the president of an outfit called the Danube Institute, and his wife is deputy director. So it's something he founded ... to have something to while away the hours in his bolt hole?

    http://www.danubeinstitute.hu/menu/staff

    He was awarded the Hungarian Order of Merit in February.


    Orbán thanked him for using his knowledge to act as a mentor for many Hungarians. Orbán acknowledged O’Sullivan’s efforts in learning the country’s culture and history despite being from elsewhere. He added that O’Sullivan is an ideal transmitter and functions as an “irreplaceable intermediator” between Hungary, the English-speaking world and the conservative Hungarian and Anglo-Saxon political and academic elite.
     

    “a comfortable but cheap retirement location”

    I asked a Hungarian friend about the unoccupied property she owns back in the old country, specifically how much annual property tax she paid for a place no one was living in.

    Her answer: about $68.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    It's not necessarily that the property is so cheap, but that the property taxes are ridiculously low, leading to various kinds of dysfunctionality in Eastern Europe municipalities, not least of which is completely run down properties causing hazards to the neighbors. And if governments were to do the reasonable thing and raise taxes to the level at which people would be forced to either live in their properties or to keep them up well-enough to rent them out, there would be massive protests. The beauty of democracy...
  66. @Anon
    OT

    Paging Amy Harmon. Here's another of that rare species, a black mathematician: Jonathan Farley, a professor at Morgan State in Maryland, an HBCU.

    He's in the news because a Russian (Siberian) mail order bride 20 years his junior defrauded him of $50,000. That's his side of the story at least.

    https://www.wmar2news.com/matterformallory/local-professor-says-he-lost-50-000-after-being-deceived-by-a-russian-mail-order-bride

    These Russian chicks play a long game: They dated for three years, whatever dating means in this context. The chick's parents, who he visited, were in Turkey, so it sounds like she was an immigrant to Russia.

    She apparently started spending money like crazy ... at places like Wall-Mart and Bed, Bath and Beyond, up to $12,000 per month. When he shut down the money hose, she sold all the stuff in his apartment and went back to Turkey. He still hasn't been able to get divorced. She go a green card out of it.

    And to think that there are so many unmarried black ladies in Maryland.

    He does actually come across as a nice guy, and he's pretty embarrassed about the whole episode.

    Paging Amy Harmon. Here’s another of that rare species, a black mathematician: Jonathan Farley, a professor at Morgan State in Maryland, an HBCU.

    He’s in the news because a Russian (Siberian) mail order bride 20 years his junior defrauded him of $50,000. That’s his side of the story at least.

    Jonathan Farely is a pretty smart guy, also an a-hole. Hearing about how he got scammed just brightened my day.

    Vanderbilt professor outrages Confederate progeny
    Says Rebel soldiers deserved gallows

    http://theothermccain.com/2010/12/30/white-nationalist-propaganda/

    Black mathematicians: the kind of problems they wish didn’t need solving
    Jonathan Farley

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/apr/12/black-mathematicians-john-derbyshire-fields-medal

    Derbyshire On Race And The International Math Olympiad

    https://vdare.com/articles/derbyshire-on-race-and-the-international-math-olympiad

    Scroll down in this last one for stuff about Farely.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Question for Professor Farley:

    Do you also think the rebels on Santo Domingo (aka Haiti) deserved the gallows? How about the Mau Mau rebels in Kenya? The ANC rebels in South Africa? If not, why not?
  67. @Patrick in SC
    You have to submit a copy of your birth certificate in order to take the LSAT and apply to ABA accredited law schools. At least you did 29 years go.

    I'm just wondering if this is where we are headed with college applications.

    My birth certificate (and presumably my cohort from my birth state) does not state my race. I don’t think that was a national law or anything.

  68. A part-Jewish communist math professor I used to know (a nice guy, aside from being a communist) checked the Hispanic box since he supposedly had some distant ancestors who were Jews kicked out of Spain.

    • Replies: @njguy73
    This guy bought a radio station and got a tax break for the same reason.

    https://vdare.com/articles/what-s-spanish-for-chutzpah
  69. @MEH 0910
    English physics professor.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Frampton

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/magazine/the-professor-the-bikini-model-and-the-suitcase-full-of-trouble.html

    In Dr. Frampton’s defense, he was confronted by the pulchritudinous Terminator.

    Resistance is futile.

    Our local Indians, the Wampanoags, carry the blood of a few different “tribes”. The current tribal chairman is a good example.

    How many boxes could he check?

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    It was known for a few ex-slave groups to claim to be Native American rather than black.
  70. @anon
    The Universities have become the gate keepers for economic and political power, and the Universities have become corrupt as a result.
    If we had a manufacturing base with plenty of blue collar jobs, the Universities would lose power.
    If we had a prosperous market economy with ladders of success for those who work hard, the Universities would lose power.
    If we had restrictions on government to stay out of people's private lives and to stay out of social relations and culture, the Universities would lose power.
    If we cut off tax support for Ivy Leagues and private colleges, the Universities would lose power.
    If the professors finally lose their power and go back to being bookish monks working in obscurity, they will regain their integrity.

    I don’t even have one [AGREE] left, much less 6 of them! All true.

  71. @bored identity



    "You ... have to have a world of some practicality,"

     

    President-In-Law Kushner jewsplained to God Umpire that E-verify is so unpopular that 80% of Americans want Trump Family to start personally taking care of all of his golf courses:




    E-Verify has proved effective at keeping immigrants who are in the country illegally from taking American jobs.

    In Arizona, which pioneered the mandatory checks in 2008, the number of unauthorized workers dropped 33 percent below what was projected without the requirement, according to a 2017 analysis by the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas.

    The federal employment verification system, introduced more than 20 years ago, has wide public support.

    Nearly 80 percent of those surveyed last fall by The Washington Post and ABC News support requiring employers to verify new hires are legally living in the United States – more than double the support for building a wall along the Mexico border.

    Trump last October listed E-Verify among his immigration priorities and in February, requested $23 million in his 2019 budget proposal to expand the program for mandatory nationwide use.

    He uses E-Verify at his golf club in North Carolina, where the worker checks are required by state law, as well as other entities in Chicago, Miami and New York, according to an E-Verify database of participating employers.

    But it is unclear whether E-Verify checks are performed across Trump’s entire domestic portfolio of hotels and golf clubs.

    Trump Organization and White House officials have not responded to Post inquiries.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-is-very-weak-on-this-one-popular-way-to-curb-illegal-immigration/2018/05/22/adf5f85e-399b-11e8-acd5-35eac230e514_story.html?utm_term=.6bb1d1064a8b&noredirect=on


    https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2018/05/22/trump-rising-wages-are-nightmare-says-restauranteur/

     

    Also, interesting flashback from 2006:

    "Bloomberg, who co-hosts a Friday radio talk show on WABC, was discussing the controversial immigration bills in Congress that have resulted in protests across the nation when he was asked to name a typical menial job an illegal immigrant might do.

    The mayor, an avid duffer, immediately thought of golf.

    “You and I are beneficiaries of these jobs,” Bloomberg told his co-host, John Gambling.

    “You and I both play golf.

    Who takes care of the greens and the fairways in your golf course?”

    (...)
    Bloomberg also voiced support, for the first time, for a proposal to build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, a measure denounced by many supporters of illegal immigration


    https://www.upi.com/Bloomberg-Illegal-immigrants-help-golfers/85421143938311/


    https://www.wnd.com/2006/04/35527/

     

    http://golfturf.rutgers.edu/images/Golf-Turf-Students-Mowing.jpg

    People mowing is going the way of the buggy whip. Robot mowers are getting cheaper by the year, and Cub Cadet even has a fancy reel mower model to clip golf course greens.

    • Replies: @bored identity
    Yet, Trumps, Bloombergs, or Krafts for that matter, all prefer a warm, human touch; only $12 a pop - for unlimited time!
  72. @Hail
    How far are we from the need to submit a 23andMe along with the application essay and etc.?

    SAT/ACT score: 30% weight
    High school GPA: 20% weight
    Essay: 15% weight
    Activities/Other: 10% weight
    Race: 25% weight, on point scale derived from 23andMe result

    Race point scale as follows:
    +25 points for each 1.0% of Subsaharan
    +15 points for each 1.0% of Amerindian
    +[strict trade secret] for each 1.0% of Ashkenazi
    -15 points for each 1.0% of NW European for those w/98%+ total European ancestry
    -25 points for each 1.0% of Tiger Mother ancestry

    “How far are we from the need to submit a 23andMe along with the application..”?

    Legal Genealogist Judy Russell expects that within a generation or two all (first world) children will be DNA sequenced at birth. Your DNA profile will be as necessary to doing business as your Social Security number is now.

    https://blog.insito.me/the-insight-show-notes-season-2-episode-13-is-the-fbi-watching-your-dna-571c92f9fc3

    Colleges will demand to be let in on the results as a precondition for entering their hallowed halls. And yes, they will use the results to create racial “balance”.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    No, no, no, no. Rachel Dolezal is more right than you are. DNA is the white man's science. Maybe if white men or even Asians were going to construct some racist regime, this is how they would go about doing it (the Nazis would have had a field day with DNA) but the vibrant don't look at things in such an anal fashion.


    Race is a social construct and has nothing to do with DNA. If you can be a "female" even though you have testicles and XY chromosomes, you can be "black" without any African DNA. When Liz Warren put out her DNA test, the objection from the tribes was NOT that she didn't have enough Indian DNA (she has more than a lot of "tribal elders") - the objection was that she had used DNA testing at all. Being Indian is a spiritual thing and has nothing to do with DNA. Back in the day, Indian tribes used to kidnap white kids and raise them as Indians. To them, they WERE Indians even though they were blond or red haired or whatever. (And in fact when these kids were sometimes rescued, they would run away and rejoin the tribe - sitting in some stuffy classroom wearing shoes and a tight collar was not for them anymore). You can take your 23 and Me results and shove them where the sun don't shine.
    , @Prodigal son
    Native American tribes strongly oppose DNA testing , as it reveals the typical tribal member is 97% European and many of the leaders have no Indian DNA.

    Most colleges are run by leftists who believe race is a social construct, not related to genetics. Thus they will not accept DNA analysis as a method to validate race.
  73. @R.G. Camara
    Mail fraud and wire fraud are classic "catch all" crimes that a good federal prosecutor can get to stick against many defendants that they can't nail with any other crime. These are deliberately broadly-worded crimes, so any misstatement you make that is in any way self-serving can be a "crime". They would work here.

    Mail fraud is pretty straightforward; did you make any of your self-serving misstaments via the U.S. mail (or UPS/Fedex)? Did you do it more than once? Bang; mail fraud. Doesn't even have to be interstate, because the post office is federal.

    Wire fraud is even more broad. "Wire", originally, was applied to phone calls and telegrams sent interstate. Now, "wire" has been interpreted to be email and text messages as well.

    The tricky part with wire fraud is that, unlike mail fraud, it must be "interstate" in nature. So a lot of guys think they;re safe on the wire fraud charge if their fraud was wholly done in-state to other in-state folks.

    But not so fast. Most feds get around this by getting some kind of statement from Google/Verizon/etc/ to the effect that an out-of-state cell phone tower or email server/client was accessed at one point. That's happens a lot; if you're ever near a state border or travelled out of state, your cell phone "pinged" a tower out of state. With email, email guys keep a lot of email machinery/virtual machinery in different states, its highly likely at least a few of your "in-state" emails went from your computer through some company software/hardware located out of state, and then came back to your recipient in-state. If it happens more than once, bang, wire fraud.

    So it wouldn't be hard if you posed as a race you didn't actually believe you were (genuine belief is different) and then used that to scam a college or some other government apparatchik and then be convicted of mail/wire fraud. The only question is whether the feds want to bother prosecuting you.

    I would recommend reading "Three Felonies a Day" to all those properly spooked here. Terrifying.

    I used to read all that from the Constitutionalists back in the day, and yes, they can get you on anything. However, they can’t get 2 million entering freshman on anything. That’s the thing the alt-right needs to understand. Learn a lesson from the 1960’s. There’s power in numbers. They can’t fire 10,000 people, they can’t even arrest 10,000 people together, much less put them on trial for mail fraud.

    POWER IN NUMBERS, people, because this IS a sham, no matter how you slice it, and there should be push-back from anyone who is in a position to do so. Lie, cheat ’em, BS ’em, whatever, until the whole system must be just shut down.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    POWER IN NUMBERS, people, because this IS a sham
     
    What makes it a sham?
  74. @Anon

    Or does any lawyer out there know exactly what law you could be charged with breaking?
     
    As I said here ...

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/rick-singer-advised-white-parents-to-claim-their-kids-were-nonwhite-on-college-applications/#comment-3222831

    ... the other day, I don't think you really need to lie. Odds are, if any percent ancestry is all it takes, you probably have it for some minority. Also, as regular readers of Razib Khan know, different venders use different math based on different data, and you can shop around for a genetics testing company whose results are more to your liking.

    Honestly, when you read more detailed descriptions of how genetics testing works, it's kind of a scam. It's more probabilistic than accurate in the specific case. It's perfectly fine for making group characterizations, like "African Americans are on average 25 percent African ancestry,' but less accurate to determine the ancestry of an individual. Remember when everyone was 6 percent Neanderthal, and then a year later they dropped to 2 percent?

    I think liberals and the commercial DNA testing are in a bind. Clearly, haplogroups are very accurate (mtDNA for your maternal line, Y-DNA for your father’s), while autosomal DNA (which is more like who you really are, overall) show accurate representation between families and ethnic groups.

    People go to, and get out of prison based upon DNA, including relationship DNA (matching cousins narrowing down to a suspect). We also know that DNA by ethnicity is largely accurate, in that the majority of people groups maintain a distinct autosomal pattern that links families, to larger family groups to a people. Overlap is the problem, as well as early migration. Many people from the UK have very large amounts of Iberian heritage (particularly Celts, who likely came from N. Spain/Portugal). We know that many if not most Ashkenazi Jews have mtDNA of the K1 haplogroup.

    So government agencies and laws are going to have to actively dispute the results of major companies like 23andMe and Ancestry and MyHeritage if they are going to start claiming that a result of 10 percent sub-Saharan African ancestry really doesn’t mean that. There are going to be a lot of economic pressures preventing politicians and government agencies from saying that. If anything, I think it will be the other way around. Having some non-white ancestry proven by a DNA test will become an important proof element in affirmative action and college/jobs. And the companies will put this, and (((others))) will push for more miscegenation to create this (not of their own people, just everyone else).

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    And the companies will put this,
     
    The companies will "put" what?

    and (((others))) will push for more miscegenation to create this (not of their own people, just everyone else).
     
    What is it that "miscegenation" creates? Whatever it is, why do other people want to push for more of it?
  75. @Anon

    Or does any lawyer out there know exactly what law you could be charged with breaking?
     
    As I said here ...

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/rick-singer-advised-white-parents-to-claim-their-kids-were-nonwhite-on-college-applications/#comment-3222831

    ... the other day, I don't think you really need to lie. Odds are, if any percent ancestry is all it takes, you probably have it for some minority. Also, as regular readers of Razib Khan know, different venders use different math based on different data, and you can shop around for a genetics testing company whose results are more to your liking.

    Honestly, when you read more detailed descriptions of how genetics testing works, it's kind of a scam. It's more probabilistic than accurate in the specific case. It's perfectly fine for making group characterizations, like "African Americans are on average 25 percent African ancestry,' but less accurate to determine the ancestry of an individual. Remember when everyone was 6 percent Neanderthal, and then a year later they dropped to 2 percent?

    Remember when everyone was 6 percent Neanderthal, and then a year later they dropped to 2 percent?

    Flight from Neanderthal. See, Steve, that’s a post, right there!

  76. @Almost Missouri

    "a comfortable but cheap retirement location"
     
    I asked a Hungarian friend about the unoccupied property she owns back in the old country, specifically how much annual property tax she paid for a place no one was living in.

    Her answer: about $68.

    It’s not necessarily that the property is so cheap, but that the property taxes are ridiculously low, leading to various kinds of dysfunctionality in Eastern Europe municipalities, not least of which is completely run down properties causing hazards to the neighbors. And if governments were to do the reasonable thing and raise taxes to the level at which people would be forced to either live in their properties or to keep them up well-enough to rent them out, there would be massive protests. The beauty of democracy…

  77. @Anon
    Other countries dont have to fool with this preference rigamarole. They just cede the space, give the job, or promote the best candidate, no matter what their DNA. Our ethnic spoils system assures we cant have this. So many lawyers and bureaucrats being paid to administer/litigate our policies that we would not have to pay. This stuff is a burden on our competitiveness.

    Not true. Thomas Sowell noted in Evonomics of Politics and Race all the other countries that had affirmative action, mainly in Asia. They don’t work well and they never go away.

  78. Anonymous[765] • Disclaimer says:
    @Travis
    my half-Japanese cousin lied about her race, she claimed to be white on her college applications to avoid competing for the few Asian spots and was admitted to an Ivy league school. I am surprised more Asians don't change their names and apply to college as white.

    Also surprised more Americans don't do what Elizabeth Warren did and claim to be Native American. I knew lots of people who claimed to be 1/8 cherokee. Two were in my Fraternity , but they did not claim to be Indians to get into college. Seems like their is no downside to claiming Native American heritage, no need for any proof. Even most Cherokee tribe members are 97% Caucasian. But college applications do not require you to be a tribe member to claim Native American heritage and thus obtain special treatment and score bonus diversity points on your college application.

    my half-Japanese cousin lied about her race, she claimed to be white on her college applications to avoid competing for the few Asian spots and was admitted to an Ivy league school.

    Ashkenazi Jews are roughly 1/2 Asian.

  79. @International Jew
    Not a good strategy. A white kid who applies to Yale and tells them he's black will get contacted by some local black alumnus — if not for the interview itself, then for some kind of "minority outreach" (one of various programs to ensure the black students bond with one another). And if he's good enough, or almost good enough, to be admitted as a white kid, then he'll draw all kinds of attention to his application.

    At that point, the jig be up. The kid will be denounced to the admissions office, ending any chance of admission. Moreover, the various universities' admissions offices talk to one another, so now all the kid's other applications get tossed. Maybe he gets exposed on social media too, so now he can kiss goodbye any hope of a career with any organization that has pretentions to wokeness (which is soon going to be everything above stockboy at Walmart).

    Rachel Dolezal got away with it because of something no blacks want, or wanted to admit during the entire “uncovering”. Rachel with her hair and slight tan (and her full lips, which many whites like her have) looked “as black woman” as many “black women” walking the streets of America. There are millions of (truly) black women like her, who even have the cliche “two black parents”, even if true, both those parents are only 1/4 African descent.

    That’s why there was muffled and akward silence online and everywhere else when someone would ask “how did she fool everyone so long/well”. Everyone knows the answer, and many “light skinned” black women know it and were self-conscious about it. Light skinned is merely a euphemism for part white.

  80. @whahae

    that’s actually funny. Reminds me of a blog post I saw before that had a pic of all the black “firsts” (courts, doctor’s etc). They all looked to be about 90 percent white.

  81. @anon
    The Universities have become the gate keepers for economic and political power, and the Universities have become corrupt as a result.
    If we had a manufacturing base with plenty of blue collar jobs, the Universities would lose power.
    If we had a prosperous market economy with ladders of success for those who work hard, the Universities would lose power.
    If we had restrictions on government to stay out of people's private lives and to stay out of social relations and culture, the Universities would lose power.
    If we cut off tax support for Ivy Leagues and private colleges, the Universities would lose power.
    If the professors finally lose their power and go back to being bookish monks working in obscurity, they will regain their integrity.

    If my sister had testicles, she’d be my brother.

  82. @Steve Sailer
    Wasn't there a crazier story involving a white math professor who wound up in jail in Latin America over some gold-digger?

    American math professors are probably seen as easy pickings by a certain type of golddigger.

    And then there’s this male math professor, who’s dug gold off women.

    https://nypost.com/2017/06/17/sperminator-has-sired-dozens-of-kids-and-there-could-be-more-coming/

  83. @Calvin Hobbes
    A part-Jewish communist math professor I used to know (a nice guy, aside from being a communist) checked the Hispanic box since he supposedly had some distant ancestors who were Jews kicked out of Spain.

    This guy bought a radio station and got a tax break for the same reason.

    https://vdare.com/articles/what-s-spanish-for-chutzpah

  84. @HammerJack

    my half-Japanese cousin lied about her race, she claimed to be white on her college applications to avoid competing for the few Asian spots and was admitted to an Ivy league school.
     
    Right. Those "few Asian spots" range from 16% to 30% of recent entering classes, depending on the school and the year. And that's not even counting international students, who skew even more strongly Asian.

    I am surprised more Asians don’t change their names and apply to college as white.
     
    If your cousin were clever she'd change her surname to Bergman or Shekelstein. Or didn't she have to? And who's to say she wouldn't have gotten in anyway?

    Ahh..internet anecdotes. Let me tell you the one about my neighbor's grandfather who was turned down by this one country club back in the 1920s.... Hey where did everybody go....

    she did not actually have to change her name, since her birth name is Irish. She was born in Japan on an American military base. She attended High School in the United States. While working on Wall Street 3 of my co-workers were half Asian with English surnames. They attended Ivy league schools and identified as white.

    Lanya was born in Florida to a mother who immigrated from Taiwan and an American father of Norwegian ancestry. Ethnically, she considers herself half Taiwanese and half Norwegian. But when applying to Harvard, Lanya checked only one box for her race: white. Lanya is a freshman at Harvard and a member of HAPA, the Half-Asian People’s Association.

    Amalia Halikias is a Yale freshman whose mother was born in America to Chinese immigrants; her father is a Greek immigrant. She also checked only the “white” box on her application. “As someone who was applying with relatively strong scores, I didn’t want to be grouped into that stereotype,” Halikias says. “I didn’t want to be written off as one of the 1.4 billion Asians that were applying.”..”If you know you’re going to be discriminated against, it’s absolutely justifiable to not check the Asian box,” says Halikias.
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2011-12-03/asian-students-college-applications/51620236/1

    Hard to verify how common this is. But I personally know 5 half Asians who passed as white, due to their surnames. It must be more common today.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Amalia Halikias is a Yale freshman whose mother was born in America to Chinese immigrants; her father is a Greek immigrant. She also checked only the “white” box on her application. “As someone who was applying with relatively strong scores, I didn’t want to be grouped into that stereotype,” Halikias says. “I didn’t want to be written off as one of the 1.4 billion Asians that were applying.”
     
    Is claiming a "distant" ancestry any worse than omitting a "close" ancestry?
  85. I don’t think it’s a crime to lie about your race either, because universities have no business asking about it in the first place.

  86. @Anon
    OT

    Paging Amy Harmon. Here's another of that rare species, a black mathematician: Jonathan Farley, a professor at Morgan State in Maryland, an HBCU.

    He's in the news because a Russian (Siberian) mail order bride 20 years his junior defrauded him of $50,000. That's his side of the story at least.

    https://www.wmar2news.com/matterformallory/local-professor-says-he-lost-50-000-after-being-deceived-by-a-russian-mail-order-bride

    These Russian chicks play a long game: They dated for three years, whatever dating means in this context. The chick's parents, who he visited, were in Turkey, so it sounds like she was an immigrant to Russia.

    She apparently started spending money like crazy ... at places like Wall-Mart and Bed, Bath and Beyond, up to $12,000 per month. When he shut down the money hose, she sold all the stuff in his apartment and went back to Turkey. He still hasn't been able to get divorced. She go a green card out of it.

    And to think that there are so many unmarried black ladies in Maryland.

    He does actually come across as a nice guy, and he's pretty embarrassed about the whole episode.

  87. @Anon

    Or does any lawyer out there know exactly what law you could be charged with breaking?
     
    As I said here ...

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/rick-singer-advised-white-parents-to-claim-their-kids-were-nonwhite-on-college-applications/#comment-3222831

    ... the other day, I don't think you really need to lie. Odds are, if any percent ancestry is all it takes, you probably have it for some minority. Also, as regular readers of Razib Khan know, different venders use different math based on different data, and you can shop around for a genetics testing company whose results are more to your liking.

    Honestly, when you read more detailed descriptions of how genetics testing works, it's kind of a scam. It's more probabilistic than accurate in the specific case. It's perfectly fine for making group characterizations, like "African Americans are on average 25 percent African ancestry,' but less accurate to determine the ancestry of an individual. Remember when everyone was 6 percent Neanderthal, and then a year later they dropped to 2 percent?

    …”my family comes from the Rift Valley in East Africa”…

  88. @James Braxton
    18 U.S.C. 1343 - Mail/Wire fraud

    Also “Honest services fraud” 18 U.S.C. § 1346

    This is a great statute for turning private wrongs into Federal crimes. All the coaches taking bribes are probably guilty of this because they owed their employer their “honest” services and did not provide them. For applicants it’s tougher but you could make an argument that applicants have a fiduciary duty to the schools or their fellow applicants to be “honest” on their applications.

    All the people who are saying that “how do you really know who is black?” are missing the point. The real question is whether there was fraudulent intent or an honestly held belief. Courts have to decide whose heart is pure all the time. For example we KNOW that Liz Warren had a pure heart when she claimed to be an Indian maiden and she should not be punished for this in any way. Not only should she not be punished but her heart is pure enough to ascend to the highest office in the land – she is immaculate.

    But, if some vile grasping Trump lover goes around checking the wrong boxes, we can infer that they are doing this with evil intent. This is like pornography vs. art – the court knows it when it sees it whether you are drawing smutty cartoons or making Art. Liz Warren is a diversity artist and you ain’t.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • LOL: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    For example we KNOW that Liz Warren had a pure heart when she claimed to be an Indian maiden and she should not be punished for this in any way. Not only should she not be punished but her heart is pure enough to ascend to the highest office in the land – she is immaculate.
     
    Warren IS Indian. She has the family lore, family circumstances, and DNA to prove it.
    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Also “Honest services fraud” 18 U.S.C. § 1346
     
    IIRC there's a Circuit split regarding whether Honest Services Fraud theory can be applied to non-government actors so this will depend upon where the individual who solicits or accepts a bribe can be charged.
    , @Marquandian Hero
    I think the fiduciary duty argument is weak. Typically, the fiduciary duty argument would be applied to someone who is in a superior position: a financial advisor. A trustee. Someone you go into a profit sharing agreement that also provides that you share losses. Employer employee is not generally a fiduciary relationship, not even when employee reposes trust in employer, hard to argue that applicant-university would be. Even the fraud argument is questionable. The universities constantly equivocate or flat out won't reveal their calculus...if they try to argue honest services or false pretenses or wire fraud then they also have to prove that the only reason you obtained admission was the lie. To do that they would have to reveal a complete methodology of who gets the most points for what. And from the defense side I would argue they'd need to prove you knew that that was the system in place. Otherwise there's a knowingly element arguably missing from the fraud claim.

    I also think you skate if you use it to get in, but don't take any scholarships. Taking admission is a rather vague benefit. If you get admitted for being "black" but only accept normal financial aid for which you are monetarily qualified, and not the Malcom X Black Liberation Scholarship, there's no fraud, just benign deception.

  89. @Anon
    OT

    Paging Amy Harmon. Here's another of that rare species, a black mathematician: Jonathan Farley, a professor at Morgan State in Maryland, an HBCU.

    He's in the news because a Russian (Siberian) mail order bride 20 years his junior defrauded him of $50,000. That's his side of the story at least.

    https://www.wmar2news.com/matterformallory/local-professor-says-he-lost-50-000-after-being-deceived-by-a-russian-mail-order-bride

    These Russian chicks play a long game: They dated for three years, whatever dating means in this context. The chick's parents, who he visited, were in Turkey, so it sounds like she was an immigrant to Russia.

    She apparently started spending money like crazy ... at places like Wall-Mart and Bed, Bath and Beyond, up to $12,000 per month. When he shut down the money hose, she sold all the stuff in his apartment and went back to Turkey. He still hasn't been able to get divorced. She go a green card out of it.

    And to think that there are so many unmarried black ladies in Maryland.

    He does actually come across as a nice guy, and he's pretty embarrassed about the whole episode.

    What, she wasn’t charmed by his appearane, smarts, or conversations? I wonder how many other relatively poor women are misleading rich men otherwise endowed with very very big a-brains.

  90. To the point: falsification of a document is a Felony in most States. It requires more than factual error, there has to be an intent to deceive.

    Wouldn’t that be fun to prosecute over Racial Ancestry claims?

    As others have pointed out, there is also the Tortable act of Fraud to be considered. If multiple people are in on it, conspiracy is opened up, leads to all kinds of RICO fun. The fact that you don’t see any such charges illustrates the depth of the corruption – the Institutions won’t be charged no matter what. The kids applying will though, even though their specific guilty knowledge of the whole process could be pretty minimal.

    The tip of the corrupt spear in corrupt Anerica. All so we can play Race Games in formerly White America.

  91. anonymous[265] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Wasn't there a crazier story involving a white math professor who wound up in jail in Latin America over some gold-digger?

    American math professors are probably seen as easy pickings by a certain type of golddigger.

    Paul Frampton is a theoretical physicist. He wrote a book about it: https://motls.blogspot.com/2015/01/paul-frampton-releases-book-about-his.html

  92. anonymous[265] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Wasn't there a crazier story involving a white math professor who wound up in jail in Latin America over some gold-digger?

    American math professors are probably seen as easy pickings by a certain type of golddigger.

    Paul Frampton is a theoretical physicist. He wrote a book about it: https://motls.blogspot.com/2015/01/paul-frampton-releases-book-about-his.html

  93. @Anon
    "Tucker Carlson 2020"

    I like him better where he is now. He's one of only a very few voices in big media that represent the upper left quadrant of the political compass. The rest are all boomer free traders and Cold War leftovers or neoliberals. If Tucker runs, he'll not only lose the primary but also lose his TV spot, likely permanently. I'm sure Fox would just replace his slot with an open borders, free-market Chamber of Commerce type and we have enough of those already.

    Moldbug made a good case that we have a media-run state rather than a state-run media.

  94. @Beckow
    Actually lying about anything on a college application isn't a crime. You can make up fairy tale essays, run fake charities in Burundi, claim to be dyslexic, or choose an identity, pretty much anything goes. It is just a game and a test of due diligence for the school officials. One can get caught, or more likely not.

    The idiocy of using anything but numbers in university admissions is obvious and just waiting to be exploited. One way to collapse the system would be through massive noncompliance and making up stuff. We are told that 'race' doesn't exist and that gender is fluid, so how can one prove lying? Actually making up stuff to overwhelm the system is pretty much the only way to force change - it will never change on its own, too many beneficiaries are in charge of it.

    Actually lying about anything on a college application isn’t a crime.

    You’re sure about that? Sure enough to risk Federal prison? I’m not so sure. It shouldn’t be, but that doesn’t mean it ain’t. Just being Federally indicted is a big punishment, even if you are ultimately acquitted. Maybe it’s not a crime but maybe it will cost you $300k in defense costs to find out whether it is or not. The old joke is that any Federal prosecutor could convince a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    Given a trillion or so laws and regulations on the books in US - the land of the free - and the random way they are enforced, you are right, there is always a risk. Most likely an out of control prosecutor would pick a few cases to make an example of some people.

    But would the accused lose in a court? Nothing submitted to colleges - other than names, grades and test scores - is legally binding. It is just a story the applicant presents, same as personal stories in a job interview. It is up to the receiving side to decide if they believe it or not - that's actually the definition of being a university admissions clerk. It is up to them to decide what they believe. It is the same with endless recommendations - how can you determine their veracity and would be the penalty if they are 'not true'?

    If a student would submit a sworn testimony about his/her/it life, gender, race, adversity, disability, etc... there could be a weak case that they broke some law. But that is logistically not possible, so the story is just a story, an idle talk that is hard to prosecute. There are costs to defending oneself - but there are also societal costs in doing nothing.

    It is an honour system. Historically all honour systems work only as long as they are basically fair, the competition isn't too brutal, and the rewards are not that important. University admission system is none of those - it is unfair, important and highly competitive. It now rewards those willing to game it, having 'honour' is a distinct negative. Once that happened the only way to change it is with massive non-compliance.
  95. @Hail
    Trump Must Lose

    Dump the Chump
    End the Madness
    Tucker Carlson 2020

    Dump the Chump
    End the Madness
    Tucker Carlson 2020

    I’d prefer to see President Carlson myself. But he isn’t running. In the end, we’re all going to have to decide between Donald Trump, or same lame mook who wishes us ill, like Kamala Harris. Or you can vote for Bill Weld, I guess.

  96. @Almost Missouri

    "How far are we from the need to submit a 23andMe along with the application.."?
     
    Legal Genealogist Judy Russell expects that within a generation or two all (first world) children will be DNA sequenced at birth. Your DNA profile will be as necessary to doing business as your Social Security number is now.

    https://blog.insito.me/the-insight-show-notes-season-2-episode-13-is-the-fbi-watching-your-dna-571c92f9fc3

    Colleges will demand to be let in on the results as a precondition for entering their hallowed halls. And yes, they will use the results to create racial "balance".

    No, no, no, no. Rachel Dolezal is more right than you are. DNA is the white man’s science. Maybe if white men or even Asians were going to construct some racist regime, this is how they would go about doing it (the Nazis would have had a field day with DNA) but the vibrant don’t look at things in such an anal fashion.

    Race is a social construct and has nothing to do with DNA. If you can be a “female” even though you have testicles and XY chromosomes, you can be “black” without any African DNA. When Liz Warren put out her DNA test, the objection from the tribes was NOT that she didn’t have enough Indian DNA (she has more than a lot of “tribal elders”) – the objection was that she had used DNA testing at all. Being Indian is a spiritual thing and has nothing to do with DNA. Back in the day, Indian tribes used to kidnap white kids and raise them as Indians. To them, they WERE Indians even though they were blond or red haired or whatever. (And in fact when these kids were sometimes rescued, they would run away and rejoin the tribe – sitting in some stuffy classroom wearing shoes and a tight collar was not for them anymore). You can take your 23 and Me results and shove them where the sun don’t shine.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    DNA is the white man’s science.
     
    It's like photography -- it steals your sole.
    , @Almost Missouri
    I am compelled to point out that the "race is a social construct" construct is itself a white man's (pseudo)science. As you imply, the pseudo-ness of the science does not offend minorities, but the whiteness of it does.

    If you can be a “female” even though you have testicles and XY chromosomes, you can be “black” without any African DNA.
     
    Being "female" with testicles is also a recent invention of the white man's pseudoscience.

    And as Steve has been pointing out for some time time, it is curious that even while transgenderism has proliferated with support from every quarter, transracialism has not. Its few proponents—such as Dolezal—are hounded out of their careers. The reason is that to muscle in on female prerogatives, one only need to push girls out of the way, and "femininsts" can easily be ju-jitsued using feminism's own self-contradictory representations. By contrast, to muscle in on racial prerogatives, one needs to battle seasoned and ruthless race hustlers, who command large and violent constituencies, and who are undistracted by any theoretical nonsense such as "third wave blackness".
  97. @Wilkey
    Evidently, so few white people cheat that it’s been allowed to remain a legal gray area for 50 years.

    It's 'been allowed to remain legal'?

    I would absolutely love to watch Congress pass a law that punished people who lied about their race or ethnicity in order to obtain utterly un-Constitutional, un-American race-based government handouts. That would make for fun campaign commercials for decades to come.

    Whatever the hell happens in this regard, do not let un-elected bureaucrats write "laws" banning such behavior in a manner that prevents the new laws from being debated before Congress.

    How is Congress going to define "black"? How is Congress going to define "Hispanic"? How is Congress going to define "sub-continental Indian"? How is Congress going to define "Hasidic Jew"?

    It's a legal grey area because Congress damn sure does not want to have that debate. That's why you can lie. Lie away.

    If we're going to do this quota shit let's finally make it explicit, shall we? Let's require Congress to have that debate.

    How is Congress going to define “black”? How is Congress going to define “Hispanic”? How is Congress going to define “sub-continental Indian”? How is Congress going to define “Hasidic Jew”?

    It’s almost like it would be easier to judge people on their individual merit rather than their ancestry. But that would be White-Supremacist crazy-talk.

  98. @Jack D
    No, no, no, no. Rachel Dolezal is more right than you are. DNA is the white man's science. Maybe if white men or even Asians were going to construct some racist regime, this is how they would go about doing it (the Nazis would have had a field day with DNA) but the vibrant don't look at things in such an anal fashion.


    Race is a social construct and has nothing to do with DNA. If you can be a "female" even though you have testicles and XY chromosomes, you can be "black" without any African DNA. When Liz Warren put out her DNA test, the objection from the tribes was NOT that she didn't have enough Indian DNA (she has more than a lot of "tribal elders") - the objection was that she had used DNA testing at all. Being Indian is a spiritual thing and has nothing to do with DNA. Back in the day, Indian tribes used to kidnap white kids and raise them as Indians. To them, they WERE Indians even though they were blond or red haired or whatever. (And in fact when these kids were sometimes rescued, they would run away and rejoin the tribe - sitting in some stuffy classroom wearing shoes and a tight collar was not for them anymore). You can take your 23 and Me results and shove them where the sun don't shine.

    DNA is the white man’s science.

    It’s like photography — it steals your sole.

  99. @Jack D

    Actually lying about anything on a college application isn’t a crime.
     
    You're sure about that? Sure enough to risk Federal prison? I'm not so sure. It shouldn't be, but that doesn't mean it ain't. Just being Federally indicted is a big punishment, even if you are ultimately acquitted. Maybe it's not a crime but maybe it will cost you $300k in defense costs to find out whether it is or not. The old joke is that any Federal prosecutor could convince a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.

    Given a trillion or so laws and regulations on the books in US – the land of the free – and the random way they are enforced, you are right, there is always a risk. Most likely an out of control prosecutor would pick a few cases to make an example of some people.

    But would the accused lose in a court? Nothing submitted to colleges – other than names, grades and test scores – is legally binding. It is just a story the applicant presents, same as personal stories in a job interview. It is up to the receiving side to decide if they believe it or not – that’s actually the definition of being a university admissions clerk. It is up to them to decide what they believe. It is the same with endless recommendations – how can you determine their veracity and would be the penalty if they are ‘not true’?

    If a student would submit a sworn testimony about his/her/it life, gender, race, adversity, disability, etc… there could be a weak case that they broke some law. But that is logistically not possible, so the story is just a story, an idle talk that is hard to prosecute. There are costs to defending oneself – but there are also societal costs in doing nothing.

    It is an honour system. Historically all honour systems work only as long as they are basically fair, the competition isn’t too brutal, and the rewards are not that important. University admission system is none of those – it is unfair, important and highly competitive. It now rewards those willing to game it, having ‘honour‘ is a distinct negative. Once that happened the only way to change it is with massive non-compliance.

  100. Colleges will move away from race based affirmative action to “adversity” based affirmative action as more Americans start claiming mixed race or Native American ancestry and more Asians hide their ethnicity.

    Will it be a crime to lie about your “adversity” on the SATs and college applications ?

  101. @Steve Sailer
    Wasn't there a crazier story involving a white math professor who wound up in jail in Latin America over some gold-digger?

    American math professors are probably seen as easy pickings by a certain type of golddigger.

    Yes…the victim of a catfishing scheme.

  102. @anon
    The Universities have become the gate keepers for economic and political power, and the Universities have become corrupt as a result.
    If we had a manufacturing base with plenty of blue collar jobs, the Universities would lose power.
    If we had a prosperous market economy with ladders of success for those who work hard, the Universities would lose power.
    If we had restrictions on government to stay out of people's private lives and to stay out of social relations and culture, the Universities would lose power.
    If we cut off tax support for Ivy Leagues and private colleges, the Universities would lose power.
    If the professors finally lose their power and go back to being bookish monks working in obscurity, they will regain their integrity.

    “If the professors finally lose their power and go back to being bookish monks working in obscurity, they will regain their integrity.”

    They lost their power a long time ago. The cult of management claimed academia last, but claim it it has. The golden rule of the arts and asciences is “whoever has the gold makes the rules.” That’s the endless series of administrators, not the faculty.

    Faculty reclaiming power as the center of the institution will restore some honor to the field. Even in sociology, believe it or not,

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Maybe you should have thought of that before purging all your students and would-be faculty to the right of Adlai Stevenson.
  103. @Travis
    my half-Japanese cousin lied about her race, she claimed to be white on her college applications to avoid competing for the few Asian spots and was admitted to an Ivy league school. I am surprised more Asians don't change their names and apply to college as white.

    Also surprised more Americans don't do what Elizabeth Warren did and claim to be Native American. I knew lots of people who claimed to be 1/8 cherokee. Two were in my Fraternity , but they did not claim to be Indians to get into college. Seems like their is no downside to claiming Native American heritage, no need for any proof. Even most Cherokee tribe members are 97% Caucasian. But college applications do not require you to be a tribe member to claim Native American heritage and thus obtain special treatment and score bonus diversity points on your college application.

    Hmm, I’m native, and American, but not Native American?

    BTW, anyone else remember in the 1970s when the category was called “Hispanic and Spanish Surname”? With a little imagination, even Eisenhower could be a Spanish surname.

  104. @Brutusale
    In Dr. Frampton's defense, he was confronted by the pulchritudinous Terminator.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSBOZt2UkAAgSqo.jpg

    Resistance is futile.

    Our local Indians, the Wampanoags, carry the blood of a few different "tribes". The current tribal chairman is a good example.

    https://cbsboston.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/mashpeewompanoagcasino.jpg?w=420&h=316&crop=1

    How many boxes could he check?

    It was known for a few ex-slave groups to claim to be Native American rather than black.

  105. @Almost Missouri

    "How far are we from the need to submit a 23andMe along with the application.."?
     
    Legal Genealogist Judy Russell expects that within a generation or two all (first world) children will be DNA sequenced at birth. Your DNA profile will be as necessary to doing business as your Social Security number is now.

    https://blog.insito.me/the-insight-show-notes-season-2-episode-13-is-the-fbi-watching-your-dna-571c92f9fc3

    Colleges will demand to be let in on the results as a precondition for entering their hallowed halls. And yes, they will use the results to create racial "balance".

    Native American tribes strongly oppose DNA testing , as it reveals the typical tribal member is 97% European and many of the leaders have no Indian DNA.

    Most colleges are run by leftists who believe race is a social construct, not related to genetics. Thus they will not accept DNA analysis as a method to validate race.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Agree, but as Indian tribes alone among minority set-asides already have an official way to decide who is and who is not a member (tribal rolls), they don't need DNA testing. As the white pie shrinks and the minority eaters of it grow, the minority groups besides Indians will find they too need a way to police their borders and keep people they deem undeserving from munching on their lunch. DNA will be a convenient tool to chop off the hands of those they don't want climbing aboard their boat.
  106. Anonymous[765] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Also "Honest services fraud" 18 U.S.C. § 1346

    This is a great statute for turning private wrongs into Federal crimes. All the coaches taking bribes are probably guilty of this because they owed their employer their "honest" services and did not provide them. For applicants it's tougher but you could make an argument that applicants have a fiduciary duty to the schools or their fellow applicants to be "honest" on their applications.

    All the people who are saying that "how do you really know who is black?" are missing the point. The real question is whether there was fraudulent intent or an honestly held belief. Courts have to decide whose heart is pure all the time. For example we KNOW that Liz Warren had a pure heart when she claimed to be an Indian maiden and she should not be punished for this in any way. Not only should she not be punished but her heart is pure enough to ascend to the highest office in the land - she is immaculate.

    But, if some vile grasping Trump lover goes around checking the wrong boxes, we can infer that they are doing this with evil intent. This is like pornography vs. art - the court knows it when it sees it whether you are drawing smutty cartoons or making Art. Liz Warren is a diversity artist and you ain't.

    For example we KNOW that Liz Warren had a pure heart when she claimed to be an Indian maiden and she should not be punished for this in any way. Not only should she not be punished but her heart is pure enough to ascend to the highest office in the land – she is immaculate.

    Warren IS Indian. She has the family lore, family circumstances, and DNA to prove it.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    And 98.6% of her DNA disagrees.
    , @Almost Missouri
    To be an Indian, DNA doesn't matter. Tribal affiliation does. Warren does not have it.
    , @Jack D

    Warren IS Indian
     
    This is the same shameless lie that the Warren campaign pursued (with disastrous results). The MSM even went along with it for a day or two until the backlash (even from the Left - the only kind of backlash they care about) was too great. The rhetorical game that they (and you) tried to play was that having any Indian ancestry at all makes you "an Indian" or means that you are "of Indian ancestry". No one (least of all Warren and her campaign) really sincerely believe this.

    If I sell you a necklace and I tell you "This necklace IS gold" and then you take it to the pawn shop and they tell you that the necklace is less than 1% gold, you are going to be a mighty unhappy customer.
  107. @Jack D
    Also "Honest services fraud" 18 U.S.C. § 1346

    This is a great statute for turning private wrongs into Federal crimes. All the coaches taking bribes are probably guilty of this because they owed their employer their "honest" services and did not provide them. For applicants it's tougher but you could make an argument that applicants have a fiduciary duty to the schools or their fellow applicants to be "honest" on their applications.

    All the people who are saying that "how do you really know who is black?" are missing the point. The real question is whether there was fraudulent intent or an honestly held belief. Courts have to decide whose heart is pure all the time. For example we KNOW that Liz Warren had a pure heart when she claimed to be an Indian maiden and she should not be punished for this in any way. Not only should she not be punished but her heart is pure enough to ascend to the highest office in the land - she is immaculate.

    But, if some vile grasping Trump lover goes around checking the wrong boxes, we can infer that they are doing this with evil intent. This is like pornography vs. art - the court knows it when it sees it whether you are drawing smutty cartoons or making Art. Liz Warren is a diversity artist and you ain't.

    Also “Honest services fraud” 18 U.S.C. § 1346

    IIRC there’s a Circuit split regarding whether Honest Services Fraud theory can be applied to non-government actors so this will depend upon where the individual who solicits or accepts a bribe can be charged.

  108. anonymous[252] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beckow
    Actually lying about anything on a college application isn't a crime. You can make up fairy tale essays, run fake charities in Burundi, claim to be dyslexic, or choose an identity, pretty much anything goes. It is just a game and a test of due diligence for the school officials. One can get caught, or more likely not.

    The idiocy of using anything but numbers in university admissions is obvious and just waiting to be exploited. One way to collapse the system would be through massive noncompliance and making up stuff. We are told that 'race' doesn't exist and that gender is fluid, so how can one prove lying? Actually making up stuff to overwhelm the system is pretty much the only way to force change - it will never change on its own, too many beneficiaries are in charge of it.

    I agree with you. Lying on a college application isn’t a crime and there is extremely little chance of getting caught UNLESS you decide to go the full ante and get financial aid/scholarships using fraudulent data or take a big deduction on your taxes for “charitable donations” like the admission scandal morons did.

    Here’s a notable fraud scandal.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/30/us/tm-landry-college-prep-black-students.html

    You can bet there was no blowback on the students or parents. In fact, black run schools have often been in the news for altering high stakes test scores(Atlanta) or allowing kids to graduate when they’ve been truant a lot among other issues (Ballou High School). Who really knows what kinds of misrepresentation is happening? We all know that the shift from the SAT/ACT to grades is because of “diversity” and those grades are probably jacked up.

    Parents should be setting up their intersectional Pokemon game plan long before the kids reach college age.

  109. Anonymous[765] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    I used to read all that from the Constitutionalists back in the day, and yes, they can get you on anything. However, they can't get 2 million entering freshman on anything. That's the thing the alt-right needs to understand. Learn a lesson from the 1960's. There's power in numbers. They can't fire 10,000 people, they can't even arrest 10,000 people together, much less put them on trial for mail fraud.

    POWER IN NUMBERS, people, because this IS a sham, no matter how you slice it, and there should be push-back from anyone who is in a position to do so. Lie, cheat 'em, BS 'em, whatever, until the whole system must be just shut down.

    POWER IN NUMBERS, people, because this IS a sham

    What makes it a sham?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Affirmative Action, the deliberate discrimination against certain people (white males mostly at this point) in hiring and promotions within the Feral Gov't and, worse yet, laws made to require private business to discriminate the same way is not only Unconstitutional, but a sick sham. Maybe that's too weak a word. Abominable?

    This post was specifically about college admissions, but it's the same thing, because why don't you make the thought experiment in which some college discriminates the opposite way? You know you won't get far, and that means colleges are REQUIRED to discriminate in this manner.
  110. @TomSchmidt
    "If the professors finally lose their power and go back to being bookish monks working in obscurity, they will regain their integrity."

    They lost their power a long time ago. The cult of management claimed academia last, but claim it it has. The golden rule of the arts and asciences is "whoever has the gold makes the rules." That's the endless series of administrators, not the faculty.

    Faculty reclaiming power as the center of the institution will restore some honor to the field. Even in sociology, believe it or not,

    Maybe you should have thought of that before purging all your students and would-be faculty to the right of Adlai Stevenson.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    There are plenty of right students left, but they're the more committed, ideological ones. The real loss has been the more quietly conservative student who has been driven away. With collapsing enrollments, the leftist admins might regret losing those people. They only care for money and power, and are soon to find how little of both they have left.

    It'll be Antioch College writ large.
  111. @Anon
    OT

    Paging Amy Harmon. Here's another of that rare species, a black mathematician: Jonathan Farley, a professor at Morgan State in Maryland, an HBCU.

    He's in the news because a Russian (Siberian) mail order bride 20 years his junior defrauded him of $50,000. That's his side of the story at least.

    https://www.wmar2news.com/matterformallory/local-professor-says-he-lost-50-000-after-being-deceived-by-a-russian-mail-order-bride

    These Russian chicks play a long game: They dated for three years, whatever dating means in this context. The chick's parents, who he visited, were in Turkey, so it sounds like she was an immigrant to Russia.

    She apparently started spending money like crazy ... at places like Wall-Mart and Bed, Bath and Beyond, up to $12,000 per month. When he shut down the money hose, she sold all the stuff in his apartment and went back to Turkey. He still hasn't been able to get divorced. She go a green card out of it.

    And to think that there are so many unmarried black ladies in Maryland.

    He does actually come across as a nice guy, and he's pretty embarrassed about the whole episode.

    Lots of nerdy book smart guys are not street smart. They are prime targets for scheming women.

  112. @Anonymous

    How is Congress going to define “black”? How is Congress going to define “Hispanic”? How is Congress going to define “sub-continental Indian”? How is Congress going to define “Hadisic Jew”?

    It’s a legal grey area because Congress damn sure does not want to have that debate.
     
    Force Congress and the media to have this debate.

    Steve doesn't seem to get that people with some White ancestry's claiming benefits under their non-White ancestry will force this debate. He'd rather take the position that Warren shouldn't be considered to have Indian ancestry even though she demonstrably does have Indian ancestry.

    I have more Amerind ancestry than Warren does by an order of magnitude but I would never be shameless enough to pretend I’m meaningfully Ojibwa.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    have more Amerind ancestry than Warren does by an order of magnitude but I would never be shameless enough to pretend I’m meaningfully Ojibwa.
     
    What is shameless about truthfully stating your ancestry?
  113. Anonymous[967] • Disclaimer says:
    @OscarWildeLoveChild
    I think liberals and the commercial DNA testing are in a bind. Clearly, haplogroups are very accurate (mtDNA for your maternal line, Y-DNA for your father's), while autosomal DNA (which is more like who you really are, overall) show accurate representation between families and ethnic groups.

    People go to, and get out of prison based upon DNA, including relationship DNA (matching cousins narrowing down to a suspect). We also know that DNA by ethnicity is largely accurate, in that the majority of people groups maintain a distinct autosomal pattern that links families, to larger family groups to a people. Overlap is the problem, as well as early migration. Many people from the UK have very large amounts of Iberian heritage (particularly Celts, who likely came from N. Spain/Portugal). We know that many if not most Ashkenazi Jews have mtDNA of the K1 haplogroup.

    So government agencies and laws are going to have to actively dispute the results of major companies like 23andMe and Ancestry and MyHeritage if they are going to start claiming that a result of 10 percent sub-Saharan African ancestry really doesn't mean that. There are going to be a lot of economic pressures preventing politicians and government agencies from saying that. If anything, I think it will be the other way around. Having some non-white ancestry proven by a DNA test will become an important proof element in affirmative action and college/jobs. And the companies will put this, and (((others))) will push for more miscegenation to create this (not of their own people, just everyone else).

    And the companies will put this,

    The companies will “put” what?

    and (((others))) will push for more miscegenation to create this (not of their own people, just everyone else).

    What is it that “miscegenation” creates? Whatever it is, why do other people want to push for more of it?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    World peace.
  114. Anonymous[967] • Disclaimer says:
    @Travis
    she did not actually have to change her name, since her birth name is Irish. She was born in Japan on an American military base. She attended High School in the United States. While working on Wall Street 3 of my co-workers were half Asian with English surnames. They attended Ivy league schools and identified as white.

    Lanya was born in Florida to a mother who immigrated from Taiwan and an American father of Norwegian ancestry. Ethnically, she considers herself half Taiwanese and half Norwegian. But when applying to Harvard, Lanya checked only one box for her race: white. Lanya is a freshman at Harvard and a member of HAPA, the Half-Asian People's Association.

    Amalia Halikias is a Yale freshman whose mother was born in America to Chinese immigrants; her father is a Greek immigrant. She also checked only the "white" box on her application. "As someone who was applying with relatively strong scores, I didn't want to be grouped into that stereotype," Halikias says. "I didn't want to be written off as one of the 1.4 billion Asians that were applying.".."If you know you're going to be discriminated against, it's absolutely justifiable to not check the Asian box," says Halikias.
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2011-12-03/asian-students-college-applications/51620236/1

    Hard to verify how common this is. But I personally know 5 half Asians who passed as white, due to their surnames. It must be more common today.

    Amalia Halikias is a Yale freshman whose mother was born in America to Chinese immigrants; her father is a Greek immigrant. She also checked only the “white” box on her application. “As someone who was applying with relatively strong scores, I didn’t want to be grouped into that stereotype,” Halikias says. “I didn’t want to be written off as one of the 1.4 billion Asians that were applying.”

    Is claiming a “distant” ancestry any worse than omitting a “close” ancestry?

  115. @anon
    People mowing is going the way of the buggy whip. Robot mowers are getting cheaper by the year, and Cub Cadet even has a fancy reel mower model to clip golf course greens.

    Yet, Trumps, Bloombergs, or Krafts for that matter, all prefer a warm, human touch; only $12 a pop – for unlimited time!

  116. Anonymous[967] • Disclaimer says:
    @AndrewR
    I have more Amerind ancestry than Warren does by an order of magnitude but I would never be shameless enough to pretend I'm meaningfully Ojibwa.

    have more Amerind ancestry than Warren does by an order of magnitude but I would never be shameless enough to pretend I’m meaningfully Ojibwa.

    What is shameless about truthfully stating your ancestry?

    • Replies: @res

    What is shameless about truthfully stating your ancestry?
     
    Nothing is shameless about stating it.

    What is shameless is taking affirmative action benefits for being around 1/256 American Indian.

    Or do you think that is reasonable? If so, is there any lower limit? We all have African ancestry if you go back 100,000 years.
  117. @Anonymous

    And the companies will put this,
     
    The companies will "put" what?

    and (((others))) will push for more miscegenation to create this (not of their own people, just everyone else).
     
    What is it that "miscegenation" creates? Whatever it is, why do other people want to push for more of it?

    World peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It is indeed plausible there would be less conflict if all racial groups merged into one big race--the human race.
  118. @Anonymous

    For example we KNOW that Liz Warren had a pure heart when she claimed to be an Indian maiden and she should not be punished for this in any way. Not only should she not be punished but her heart is pure enough to ascend to the highest office in the land – she is immaculate.
     
    Warren IS Indian. She has the family lore, family circumstances, and DNA to prove it.

    And 98.6% of her DNA disagrees.

  119. Anonymous[967] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    World peace.

    It is indeed plausible there would be less conflict if all racial groups merged into one big race–the human race.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Not really.

    Cain and Abel were brothers.
  120. @Anon
    OT

    Paging Amy Harmon. Here's another of that rare species, a black mathematician: Jonathan Farley, a professor at Morgan State in Maryland, an HBCU.

    He's in the news because a Russian (Siberian) mail order bride 20 years his junior defrauded him of $50,000. That's his side of the story at least.

    https://www.wmar2news.com/matterformallory/local-professor-says-he-lost-50-000-after-being-deceived-by-a-russian-mail-order-bride

    These Russian chicks play a long game: They dated for three years, whatever dating means in this context. The chick's parents, who he visited, were in Turkey, so it sounds like she was an immigrant to Russia.

    She apparently started spending money like crazy ... at places like Wall-Mart and Bed, Bath and Beyond, up to $12,000 per month. When he shut down the money hose, she sold all the stuff in his apartment and went back to Turkey. He still hasn't been able to get divorced. She go a green card out of it.

    And to think that there are so many unmarried black ladies in Maryland.

    He does actually come across as a nice guy, and he's pretty embarrassed about the whole episode.

    Farley might be going public about the marriage because he is worried about being Metoo’d. True or not, Farley’s wife may have accused him of abuse when she left. If a foreign spouse claims abuse they receive their green card immediately. It is not uncommon for foreign brides to start arguments in the hopes that their husband will react in an abusive manner. It is also possible that Farley’s wife has recently reappeared looking for money.

  121. @Giant Duck
    There should be a distinction drawn between "lying" about one's race/ethnicity, versus playing up a distant connection. The former might be some kind of crime, although probably easy to wiggle out of if it was allegedly based on "family lore" (e.g., Senator Elizabeth Warren). The latter, however, probably isn't forbidden in any way.

    Starting with the most vague: Hispanic. The Census defines "Hispanic" as linked to "culture or origin." Someone with a distant relative from Latin America could claim to be Hispanic and would not violate the letter of any law or policy. I've known several Jewish students who did this via a family connection to Argentina. These were kids who did not have Spanish names and did not speak any Spanish at all.

    The Hispanic Scholarship Fund tries to be more concrete about how one qualifies:

    To qualify for this program, students must be at least one-quarter Hispanic/Latino (meaning: at least one of your Grandparents must be Hispanic). Hispanic/Latino is an ethnic category, not a racial category; students may be of any race. For purposes of the Hispanic Scholarship Fund, students must be from a family whose ancestors came from at least one of these countries: Argentina, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Portugal, Puerto Rico, El Salvador, Spain, Uruguay, or Venezuela.
     
    https://www.hsf.net/student

    However, this is not binding on any other organization.

    For race, the Census is based on "self-identification" about "having origins" in particular geographical regions.

    https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html

    Everyone knows what they mean by this, but the written policy itself is vague and open-ended. I don't see how someone with a prima facie claim of "origins" in a particular geographical region could be accused of fraud, even if their claim is very distant or even fanciful (e.g., again, Senator Elizabeth Warren).

    One takeaway from all of this is that, as Sailer has called it, the current "flight from white" is certainly distorting our statistics, in light of both the incentive to claim non-white ancestry, and the practice of counting people of mixed heritage as entirely non-white. In the end, colleges, and probably the United States in general, are far whiter than statistics would suggest.

    The Hispanic Scholarship Fund’s list of countries is inclusive. People from Belize, Brazil, and Portugal used to not be considered Hispanic. Years ago, some organizations didn’t even consider people from Spain to be Hispanic.

    The term African-American was created so that new immigrants from North and East Africa who didn’t consider themselves black could qualify for affirmative action. Someone got Jesse Jackson to pretend that he coined the term African-American so that it would be easily accepted by native blacks.

  122. @The Big Red Scary
    Here's the professional part of his website (http://www.latticetheory.net/mathematics/index.shtml).

    It seems he is

    1) Jamaican
    2) a competent but not exceptional mathematician
    3) an up-standing scientific citizen

    It's a real shame he made such an unwise decision in marriage and I hope he does well a second time around. I blame Putin, who must keep a list of successful black scientists and personally order Siberian honeypots to go ruin their lives.

    Jonathan Farley has one parent from Jamaica and the other from Guyana. Both parents have PhD’s, his father’s from the London School of Economics. Farley and his three brothers all attended Harvard.

    http://www.math.buffalo.edu/mad/PEEPS/farley_jonathan.html

  123. @Anonymous
    It is indeed plausible there would be less conflict if all racial groups merged into one big race--the human race.

    Not really.

    Cain and Abel were brothers.

  124. @Prodigal son
    Native American tribes strongly oppose DNA testing , as it reveals the typical tribal member is 97% European and many of the leaders have no Indian DNA.

    Most colleges are run by leftists who believe race is a social construct, not related to genetics. Thus they will not accept DNA analysis as a method to validate race.

    Agree, but as Indian tribes alone among minority set-asides already have an official way to decide who is and who is not a member (tribal rolls), they don’t need DNA testing. As the white pie shrinks and the minority eaters of it grow, the minority groups besides Indians will find they too need a way to police their borders and keep people they deem undeserving from munching on their lunch. DNA will be a convenient tool to chop off the hands of those they don’t want climbing aboard their boat.

  125. @Anonymous

    For example we KNOW that Liz Warren had a pure heart when she claimed to be an Indian maiden and she should not be punished for this in any way. Not only should she not be punished but her heart is pure enough to ascend to the highest office in the land – she is immaculate.
     
    Warren IS Indian. She has the family lore, family circumstances, and DNA to prove it.

    To be an Indian, DNA doesn’t matter. Tribal affiliation does. Warren does not have it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    To be an Indian, DNA doesn’t matter. Tribal affiliation does. Warren does not have it.
     
    Incorrect. You are confusing Indian ancestry with federal government tribal "membership".
  126. @Jack D
    Also "Honest services fraud" 18 U.S.C. § 1346

    This is a great statute for turning private wrongs into Federal crimes. All the coaches taking bribes are probably guilty of this because they owed their employer their "honest" services and did not provide them. For applicants it's tougher but you could make an argument that applicants have a fiduciary duty to the schools or their fellow applicants to be "honest" on their applications.

    All the people who are saying that "how do you really know who is black?" are missing the point. The real question is whether there was fraudulent intent or an honestly held belief. Courts have to decide whose heart is pure all the time. For example we KNOW that Liz Warren had a pure heart when she claimed to be an Indian maiden and she should not be punished for this in any way. Not only should she not be punished but her heart is pure enough to ascend to the highest office in the land - she is immaculate.

    But, if some vile grasping Trump lover goes around checking the wrong boxes, we can infer that they are doing this with evil intent. This is like pornography vs. art - the court knows it when it sees it whether you are drawing smutty cartoons or making Art. Liz Warren is a diversity artist and you ain't.

    I think the fiduciary duty argument is weak. Typically, the fiduciary duty argument would be applied to someone who is in a superior position: a financial advisor. A trustee. Someone you go into a profit sharing agreement that also provides that you share losses. Employer employee is not generally a fiduciary relationship, not even when employee reposes trust in employer, hard to argue that applicant-university would be. Even the fraud argument is questionable. The universities constantly equivocate or flat out won’t reveal their calculus…if they try to argue honest services or false pretenses or wire fraud then they also have to prove that the only reason you obtained admission was the lie. To do that they would have to reveal a complete methodology of who gets the most points for what. And from the defense side I would argue they’d need to prove you knew that that was the system in place. Otherwise there’s a knowingly element arguably missing from the fraud claim.

    I also think you skate if you use it to get in, but don’t take any scholarships. Taking admission is a rather vague benefit. If you get admitted for being “black” but only accept normal financial aid for which you are monetarily qualified, and not the Malcom X Black Liberation Scholarship, there’s no fraud, just benign deception.

  127. @Jack D
    No, no, no, no. Rachel Dolezal is more right than you are. DNA is the white man's science. Maybe if white men or even Asians were going to construct some racist regime, this is how they would go about doing it (the Nazis would have had a field day with DNA) but the vibrant don't look at things in such an anal fashion.


    Race is a social construct and has nothing to do with DNA. If you can be a "female" even though you have testicles and XY chromosomes, you can be "black" without any African DNA. When Liz Warren put out her DNA test, the objection from the tribes was NOT that she didn't have enough Indian DNA (she has more than a lot of "tribal elders") - the objection was that she had used DNA testing at all. Being Indian is a spiritual thing and has nothing to do with DNA. Back in the day, Indian tribes used to kidnap white kids and raise them as Indians. To them, they WERE Indians even though they were blond or red haired or whatever. (And in fact when these kids were sometimes rescued, they would run away and rejoin the tribe - sitting in some stuffy classroom wearing shoes and a tight collar was not for them anymore). You can take your 23 and Me results and shove them where the sun don't shine.

    I am compelled to point out that the “race is a social construct” construct is itself a white man’s (pseudo)science. As you imply, the pseudo-ness of the science does not offend minorities, but the whiteness of it does.

    If you can be a “female” even though you have testicles and XY chromosomes, you can be “black” without any African DNA.

    Being “female” with testicles is also a recent invention of the white man’s pseudoscience.

    And as Steve has been pointing out for some time time, it is curious that even while transgenderism has proliferated with support from every quarter, transracialism has not. Its few proponents—such as Dolezal—are hounded out of their careers. The reason is that to muscle in on female prerogatives, one only need to push girls out of the way, and “femininsts” can easily be ju-jitsued using feminism’s own self-contradictory representations. By contrast, to muscle in on racial prerogatives, one needs to battle seasoned and ruthless race hustlers, who command large and violent constituencies, and who are undistracted by any theoretical nonsense such as “third wave blackness”.

  128. @Anonymous

    POWER IN NUMBERS, people, because this IS a sham
     
    What makes it a sham?

    Affirmative Action, the deliberate discrimination against certain people (white males mostly at this point) in hiring and promotions within the Feral Gov’t and, worse yet, laws made to require private business to discriminate the same way is not only Unconstitutional, but a sick sham. Maybe that’s too weak a word. Abominable?

    This post was specifically about college admissions, but it’s the same thing, because why don’t you make the thought experiment in which some college discriminates the opposite way? You know you won’t get far, and that means colleges are REQUIRED to discriminate in this manner.

  129. @The Big Red Scary
    Here's the professional part of his website (http://www.latticetheory.net/mathematics/index.shtml).

    It seems he is

    1) Jamaican
    2) a competent but not exceptional mathematician
    3) an up-standing scientific citizen

    It's a real shame he made such an unwise decision in marriage and I hope he does well a second time around. I blame Putin, who must keep a list of successful black scientists and personally order Siberian honeypots to go ruin their lives.

    And piss on their beds?

  130. Your race is of course a social construct – and you aren’t the one who gets to do the constructing.

  131. Anonymous[967] • Disclaimer says:
    @Almost Missouri
    To be an Indian, DNA doesn't matter. Tribal affiliation does. Warren does not have it.

    To be an Indian, DNA doesn’t matter. Tribal affiliation does. Warren does not have it.

    Incorrect. You are confusing Indian ancestry with federal government tribal “membership”.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Lol. If I'm confusing it, so are the Indians, and so is the federal government.

    Whereas Anon is not confused by saying 99% white + 1% Indian = Indian.
  132. res says:
    @Anonymous

    have more Amerind ancestry than Warren does by an order of magnitude but I would never be shameless enough to pretend I’m meaningfully Ojibwa.
     
    What is shameless about truthfully stating your ancestry?

    What is shameless about truthfully stating your ancestry?

    Nothing is shameless about stating it.

    What is shameless is taking affirmative action benefits for being around 1/256 American Indian.

    Or do you think that is reasonable? If so, is there any lower limit? We all have African ancestry if you go back 100,000 years.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Discrimination on the basis of race is shameful. Making that discrimination unworkable is the most effective means of shaming it.
    , @Anonymous

    What is shameless is taking affirmative action benefits for being around 1/256 American Indian.
     
    Why is it shameless? You either have AI ancestry or you don't. Warren has it.

    If you, or employers, or anyone else, wish to discriminate against someone with her particular genetic makeup (which you impiedly do wish to do) then you make a rule that does that.

    (Besides, if anyone in this country deserves preferences in hiring, isn't it someone descended from people who founded and built this country and from AIs?)
  133. @res

    What is shameless about truthfully stating your ancestry?
     
    Nothing is shameless about stating it.

    What is shameless is taking affirmative action benefits for being around 1/256 American Indian.

    Or do you think that is reasonable? If so, is there any lower limit? We all have African ancestry if you go back 100,000 years.

    Discrimination on the basis of race is shameful. Making that discrimination unworkable is the most effective means of shaming it.

  134. Anon[520] • Disclaimer says:

    I just think it’s unjustified to use federal prosecutors and overbroad federal criminal law to go after something that seems more like a civil tort between the applicant and the college and perhaps the testing companies. Let the college pay for investigators and discovery costs. And that places the incentives on the right parties.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I just think it’s unjustified to use federal prosecutors and overbroad federal criminal law to go after something that seems more like a civil tort between the applicant and the college and perhaps the testing companies.
     
    The applicants are acting in self defense. They are defending themselves against racial discrimination by the colleges.
  135. @Patrick in SC
    You have to submit a copy of your birth certificate in order to take the LSAT and apply to ABA accredited law schools. At least you did 29 years go.

    I'm just wondering if this is where we are headed with college applications.

    I don’t recall submitting my birth cert to lsac for the lsat…but in any case, the birth cert does not go to the schools, just the score

  136. @James Braxton
    18 U.S.C. 1343 - Mail/Wire fraud

    from wikipedia:
    “The term Hispanic (Spanish: hispano or hispánico) broadly refers to the people, nations, and cultures that have a historical link to the Spanish language or the country of Spain, depending on the context.

    It commonly applies to countries once under colonial possession by the Spanish Empire following Spanish colonization of the Americas, parts of the Asia-Pacific region and Africa. ”

    the fact is that most of the land mass of the USA mainland was once owned by spain…to wit:

    so if you have any ancestors from who lived in america in the 1800s, you can claim to be hispanic…

    fact!

    • Replies: @Travis
    True..One such example is former Colorado Senator Ken Salazar. He was touted as the first Hispanic American from Colorado to serve in the U.S. Senate.

    Salazar's Hispanic ancestry is from Spain, family lore holds that the first Salazar in New Mexico was a conquistador in the 1500s....Yet Salazar not only claims to be hispanic he claims to be Mexican. "There is a historic aspect to my election from Colorado to the United States Senate, because I became the first Mexican-American in the history of our country to ever be elected outside the state of New Mexico," Mr. Salazar said.

    His family roots can be traced to Spain, and Salazars helped found Santa Fe, N.M., in the late 1500's, decades before the Mayflower set sail. That also means, technically speaking, that he is not quite Mexican-American, as he often claims, his ancestors arrived in the Southwest before there was a Mexico.
  137. @whahae

    We can discuss about the issue, or we can act about it. Apparently, Aussies are more into action !

    I think this will lead the way : if enough people file “Warren like” legally acceptable applications, based on true yet marginal minority ancestry, the “affirmative action premium” will be bypassed.

  138. @GermanReader2
    A few months ago nearly all of the hosts of fox News did an ancestry test and shared the results in their shows. According to the tests both ainsley earhardt and Jesse Watters are about 0.5% black. Are you okay with them being listed as black journalists? Do you think it is okay for their kids to get affirmative action?

    [quote] A few months ago nearly all of the hosts of fox News did an ancestry test and shared the results in their shows. According to the tests both ainsley earhardt and Jesse Watters are about 0.5% black. Are you okay with them being listed as black journalists? Do you think it is okay for their kids to get affirmative action?
    [/quote]

    Yes

    This is the only way against AA that has a reasonnable long term chance of success. Make it irrelevant, or send the left into racial point theories that will consume it into an internal war. Both options are a win for us.

    The worst that could happen is that this would force everyone to admit that “black” is equivalent to “+200 SAT points” on an application form. Something that would redpill more than a few people, especially when the debate shifts to “how much should “50% black” be worth.

  139. @R.G. Camara
    Mail fraud and wire fraud are classic "catch all" crimes that a good federal prosecutor can get to stick against many defendants that they can't nail with any other crime. These are deliberately broadly-worded crimes, so any misstatement you make that is in any way self-serving can be a "crime". They would work here.

    Mail fraud is pretty straightforward; did you make any of your self-serving misstaments via the U.S. mail (or UPS/Fedex)? Did you do it more than once? Bang; mail fraud. Doesn't even have to be interstate, because the post office is federal.

    Wire fraud is even more broad. "Wire", originally, was applied to phone calls and telegrams sent interstate. Now, "wire" has been interpreted to be email and text messages as well.

    The tricky part with wire fraud is that, unlike mail fraud, it must be "interstate" in nature. So a lot of guys think they;re safe on the wire fraud charge if their fraud was wholly done in-state to other in-state folks.

    But not so fast. Most feds get around this by getting some kind of statement from Google/Verizon/etc/ to the effect that an out-of-state cell phone tower or email server/client was accessed at one point. That's happens a lot; if you're ever near a state border or travelled out of state, your cell phone "pinged" a tower out of state. With email, email guys keep a lot of email machinery/virtual machinery in different states, its highly likely at least a few of your "in-state" emails went from your computer through some company software/hardware located out of state, and then came back to your recipient in-state. If it happens more than once, bang, wire fraud.

    So it wouldn't be hard if you posed as a race you didn't actually believe you were (genuine belief is different) and then used that to scam a college or some other government apparatchik and then be convicted of mail/wire fraud. The only question is whether the feds want to bother prosecuting you.

    I would recommend reading "Three Felonies a Day" to all those properly spooked here. Terrifying.

    if you claim to be hispanic, you could never be convicted as long as you kept your mouth shut, unless your grandparents all came to america as european immigrants…but for most whites, who have ancestors going back into the 1800s or even earlier, the feds could not show beyond a reasonable doubt that you do not have an ancestor who lived in the portion of america controlled by spain or mexico (texas? new orleans?)…you have to show beyond a reasonable doubt, and the ancestry records are just not that good…

  140. @Anonymous

    To be an Indian, DNA doesn’t matter. Tribal affiliation does. Warren does not have it.
     
    Incorrect. You are confusing Indian ancestry with federal government tribal "membership".

    Lol. If I’m confusing it, so are the Indians, and so is the federal government.

    Whereas Anon is not confused by saying 99% white + 1% Indian = Indian.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Lol. If I’m confusing it, so are the Indians, and so is the federal government.

    Whereas Anon is not confused by saying 99% white + 1% Indian = Indian.
     
    No one is confused, except you. The federal government has for some purposes created a class of people defined as being formal "members" of certain official "tribes." Not all people with AI ancestry are registered in this class on the government rolls, and not all AI tribes are included in the list of federal government "tribes."
  141. @propagandist hacker
    from wikipedia:
    "The term Hispanic (Spanish: hispano or hispánico) broadly refers to the people, nations, and cultures that have a historical link to the Spanish language or the country of Spain, depending on the context.

    It commonly applies to countries once under colonial possession by the Spanish Empire following Spanish colonization of the Americas, parts of the Asia-Pacific region and Africa. "

    ---

    the fact is that most of the land mass of the USA mainland was once owned by spain...to wit:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_colonization_of_the_Americas#/media/File:Spanish_America_XVIII_Century_(Most_Expansion).png


    so if you have any ancestors from who lived in america in the 1800s, you can claim to be hispanic...

    fact!

    True..One such example is former Colorado Senator Ken Salazar. He was touted as the first Hispanic American from Colorado to serve in the U.S. Senate.

    Salazar’s Hispanic ancestry is from Spain, family lore holds that the first Salazar in New Mexico was a conquistador in the 1500s….Yet Salazar not only claims to be hispanic he claims to be Mexican. “There is a historic aspect to my election from Colorado to the United States Senate, because I became the first Mexican-American in the history of our country to ever be elected outside the state of New Mexico,” Mr. Salazar said.

    His family roots can be traced to Spain, and Salazars helped found Santa Fe, N.M., in the late 1500’s, decades before the Mayflower set sail. That also means, technically speaking, that he is not quite Mexican-American, as he often claims, his ancestors arrived in the Southwest before there was a Mexico.

  142. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:
    @res

    What is shameless about truthfully stating your ancestry?
     
    Nothing is shameless about stating it.

    What is shameless is taking affirmative action benefits for being around 1/256 American Indian.

    Or do you think that is reasonable? If so, is there any lower limit? We all have African ancestry if you go back 100,000 years.

    What is shameless is taking affirmative action benefits for being around 1/256 American Indian.

    Why is it shameless? You either have AI ancestry or you don’t. Warren has it.

    If you, or employers, or anyone else, wish to discriminate against someone with her particular genetic makeup (which you impiedly do wish to do) then you make a rule that does that.

    (Besides, if anyone in this country deserves preferences in hiring, isn’t it someone descended from people who founded and built this country and from AIs?)

    • Replies: @res

    If you, or employers, or anyone else, wish to discriminate against someone with her particular genetic makeup (which you impiedly do wish to do)
     
    This is great. So wanting to have there not be a preference given in this case means I am discriminating against someone. News flash. The discrimination here is giving out these affirmative action preferences in the first place.

    It is shameless because it takes an affirmative action slot away from someone who is American Indian in a more meaningful sense--either through tribal affiliation or through a non-trivial proportion of ancestry.

    What percent American Indian are you? Are you affiliated with a tribe?

    Again, celebrate your ancestry if you like (something like that is an interesting bit of family history). Just don't try to claim special benefits (i.e. discriminate against others) based on such a trivial proportion (1/256!) of your ancestry.
  143. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    I just think it's unjustified to use federal prosecutors and overbroad federal criminal law to go after something that seems more like a civil tort between the applicant and the college and perhaps the testing companies. Let the college pay for investigators and discovery costs. And that places the incentives on the right parties.

    I just think it’s unjustified to use federal prosecutors and overbroad federal criminal law to go after something that seems more like a civil tort between the applicant and the college and perhaps the testing companies.

    The applicants are acting in self defense. They are defending themselves against racial discrimination by the colleges.

  144. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:
    @Almost Missouri
    Lol. If I'm confusing it, so are the Indians, and so is the federal government.

    Whereas Anon is not confused by saying 99% white + 1% Indian = Indian.

    Lol. If I’m confusing it, so are the Indians, and so is the federal government.

    Whereas Anon is not confused by saying 99% white + 1% Indian = Indian.

    No one is confused, except you. The federal government has for some purposes created a class of people defined as being formal “members” of certain official “tribes.” Not all people with AI ancestry are registered in this class on the government rolls, and not all AI tribes are included in the list of federal government “tribes.”

    • Replies: @res
    To demonstrate your lack of confusion, perhaps you could explain exactly what qualifies as American Indian for affirmative action benefits? To the best of my knowledge Elizabeth Warren is not affiliated with a tribe.
    , @Almost Missouri
    BTW Corvinus, you should log in using your normal handle instead of using these scrolling Anons. I suppose it is true that fewer will bother with your circular illogic games if you post that way, but it would be more honorable.
  145. res says:
    @Anonymous

    What is shameless is taking affirmative action benefits for being around 1/256 American Indian.
     
    Why is it shameless? You either have AI ancestry or you don't. Warren has it.

    If you, or employers, or anyone else, wish to discriminate against someone with her particular genetic makeup (which you impiedly do wish to do) then you make a rule that does that.

    (Besides, if anyone in this country deserves preferences in hiring, isn't it someone descended from people who founded and built this country and from AIs?)

    If you, or employers, or anyone else, wish to discriminate against someone with her particular genetic makeup (which you impiedly do wish to do)

    This is great. So wanting to have there not be a preference given in this case means I am discriminating against someone. News flash. The discrimination here is giving out these affirmative action preferences in the first place.

    It is shameless because it takes an affirmative action slot away from someone who is American Indian in a more meaningful sense–either through tribal affiliation or through a non-trivial proportion of ancestry.

    What percent American Indian are you? Are you affiliated with a tribe?

    Again, celebrate your ancestry if you like (something like that is an interesting bit of family history). Just don’t try to claim special benefits (i.e. discriminate against others) based on such a trivial proportion (1/256!) of your ancestry.

  146. @Anonymous

    Lol. If I’m confusing it, so are the Indians, and so is the federal government.

    Whereas Anon is not confused by saying 99% white + 1% Indian = Indian.
     
    No one is confused, except you. The federal government has for some purposes created a class of people defined as being formal "members" of certain official "tribes." Not all people with AI ancestry are registered in this class on the government rolls, and not all AI tribes are included in the list of federal government "tribes."

    To demonstrate your lack of confusion, perhaps you could explain exactly what qualifies as American Indian for affirmative action benefits? To the best of my knowledge Elizabeth Warren is not affiliated with a tribe.

  147. @Calvin Hobbes

    Paging Amy Harmon. Here’s another of that rare species, a black mathematician: Jonathan Farley, a professor at Morgan State in Maryland, an HBCU.

    He’s in the news because a Russian (Siberian) mail order bride 20 years his junior defrauded him of $50,000. That’s his side of the story at least.
     
    Jonathan Farely is a pretty smart guy, also an a-hole. Hearing about how he got scammed just brightened my day.

    Vanderbilt professor outrages Confederate progeny
    Says Rebel soldiers deserved gallows

    http://theothermccain.com/2010/12/30/white-nationalist-propaganda/

    Black mathematicians: the kind of problems they wish didn't need solving
    Jonathan Farley

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/apr/12/black-mathematicians-john-derbyshire-fields-medal

    Derbyshire On Race And The International Math Olympiad

    https://vdare.com/articles/derbyshire-on-race-and-the-international-math-olympiad

    Scroll down in this last one for stuff about Farely.

    Question for Professor Farley:

    Do you also think the rebels on Santo Domingo (aka Haiti) deserved the gallows? How about the Mau Mau rebels in Kenya? The ANC rebels in South Africa? If not, why not?

  148. @Anonymous

    Lol. If I’m confusing it, so are the Indians, and so is the federal government.

    Whereas Anon is not confused by saying 99% white + 1% Indian = Indian.
     
    No one is confused, except you. The federal government has for some purposes created a class of people defined as being formal "members" of certain official "tribes." Not all people with AI ancestry are registered in this class on the government rolls, and not all AI tribes are included in the list of federal government "tribes."

    BTW Corvinus, you should log in using your normal handle instead of using these scrolling Anons. I suppose it is true that fewer will bother with your circular illogic games if you post that way, but it would be more honorable.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    How do you know it's Corvinus and not some other troll or Warren supporter? Something like 15% of all Democrats currently favor Warren and presumably believe or are willing to accept her pretzel logic contortions, rationalizations and lies concerning her status as a bona fide squaw and whether she exploited these claims to go from being a 2nd tier law school grad to being Harvard's "first Native American law professor".
  149. @Anonymous

    For example we KNOW that Liz Warren had a pure heart when she claimed to be an Indian maiden and she should not be punished for this in any way. Not only should she not be punished but her heart is pure enough to ascend to the highest office in the land – she is immaculate.
     
    Warren IS Indian. She has the family lore, family circumstances, and DNA to prove it.

    Warren IS Indian

    This is the same shameless lie that the Warren campaign pursued (with disastrous results). The MSM even went along with it for a day or two until the backlash (even from the Left – the only kind of backlash they care about) was too great. The rhetorical game that they (and you) tried to play was that having any Indian ancestry at all makes you “an Indian” or means that you are “of Indian ancestry”. No one (least of all Warren and her campaign) really sincerely believe this.

    If I sell you a necklace and I tell you “This necklace IS gold” and then you take it to the pawn shop and they tell you that the necklace is less than 1% gold, you are going to be a mighty unhappy customer.

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
  150. @Almost Missouri
    BTW Corvinus, you should log in using your normal handle instead of using these scrolling Anons. I suppose it is true that fewer will bother with your circular illogic games if you post that way, but it would be more honorable.

    How do you know it’s Corvinus and not some other troll or Warren supporter? Something like 15% of all Democrats currently favor Warren and presumably believe or are willing to accept her pretzel logic contortions, rationalizations and lies concerning her status as a bona fide squaw and whether she exploited these claims to go from being a 2nd tier law school grad to being Harvard’s “first Native American law professor”.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Given the ethos at the time I don’t think she thought she was doing anything wrong. Back then cultural appropriation was all the rage and she was trying to blaze a trail more full-blooded Indians could follow in the future.

    You’d have to establish that there were any Native Americans trying to get into Harvard at the time whose place she was taking.

    The idea that she herself is a Native American is of course utterly ridiculous, which why it appeals to Corvinus.
    , @Almost Missouri

    "How do you know it’s Corvinus"
     
    Same style of writing. Same style of "thinking". Same habit of turning up late in a thread and flogging some dead horse. And the named Corvinus hasn't been commenting lately.
  151. @Jack D
    How do you know it's Corvinus and not some other troll or Warren supporter? Something like 15% of all Democrats currently favor Warren and presumably believe or are willing to accept her pretzel logic contortions, rationalizations and lies concerning her status as a bona fide squaw and whether she exploited these claims to go from being a 2nd tier law school grad to being Harvard's "first Native American law professor".

    Given the ethos at the time I don’t think she thought she was doing anything wrong. Back then cultural appropriation was all the rage and she was trying to blaze a trail more full-blooded Indians could follow in the future.

    You’d have to establish that there were any Native Americans trying to get into Harvard at the time whose place she was taking.

    The idea that she herself is a Native American is of course utterly ridiculous, which why it appeals to Corvinus.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2019/02/Warren-Registration-Card_1986.jpg

    The only trail she was trying to blaze was her own. To heap big building white people keeping wampum.
  152. @Desiderius
    Given the ethos at the time I don’t think she thought she was doing anything wrong. Back then cultural appropriation was all the rage and she was trying to blaze a trail more full-blooded Indians could follow in the future.

    You’d have to establish that there were any Native Americans trying to get into Harvard at the time whose place she was taking.

    The idea that she herself is a Native American is of course utterly ridiculous, which why it appeals to Corvinus.

    The only trail she was trying to blaze was her own. To heap big building white people keeping wampum.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    I fight against Warren and her class because of their prejudice and unwillingness to understand where their fellow citizens are coming from.

    I do this because I’m committed to taking a different approach. Not only out of simple kindness and decency, but principally because it yields a more accurate map of the social landscape.

    I could be mistaken in this take, but assigning her base motives alone is a mistake I prefer to leave to my adversaries.
  153. @Jack D
    https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2019/02/Warren-Registration-Card_1986.jpg

    The only trail she was trying to blaze was her own. To heap big building white people keeping wampum.

    I fight against Warren and her class because of their prejudice and unwillingness to understand where their fellow citizens are coming from.

    I do this because I’m committed to taking a different approach. Not only out of simple kindness and decency, but principally because it yields a more accurate map of the social landscape.

    I could be mistaken in this take, but assigning her base motives alone is a mistake I prefer to leave to my adversaries.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    I too prefer to leave assignment of base motives to my adversaries, but conversely I see no reason to grant elevated motives to them either. The Native American affirmative action trail was already there. I don't see how Warren taking advantage of it "blazes" it for others. I do see how it helps her, and I do see how it helps Harvard burnish their fake diversity cred, however. So it looks to me like there's plenty of evidence for baser motives but not much for elevated.
  154. @Desiderius
    Maybe you should have thought of that before purging all your students and would-be faculty to the right of Adlai Stevenson.

    There are plenty of right students left, but they’re the more committed, ideological ones. The real loss has been the more quietly conservative student who has been driven away. With collapsing enrollments, the leftist admins might regret losing those people. They only care for money and power, and are soon to find how little of both they have left.

    It’ll be Antioch College writ large.

  155. @Jack D
    How do you know it's Corvinus and not some other troll or Warren supporter? Something like 15% of all Democrats currently favor Warren and presumably believe or are willing to accept her pretzel logic contortions, rationalizations and lies concerning her status as a bona fide squaw and whether she exploited these claims to go from being a 2nd tier law school grad to being Harvard's "first Native American law professor".

    “How do you know it’s Corvinus”

    Same style of writing. Same style of “thinking”. Same habit of turning up late in a thread and flogging some dead horse. And the named Corvinus hasn’t been commenting lately.

  156. @Desiderius
    I fight against Warren and her class because of their prejudice and unwillingness to understand where their fellow citizens are coming from.

    I do this because I’m committed to taking a different approach. Not only out of simple kindness and decency, but principally because it yields a more accurate map of the social landscape.

    I could be mistaken in this take, but assigning her base motives alone is a mistake I prefer to leave to my adversaries.

    I too prefer to leave assignment of base motives to my adversaries, but conversely I see no reason to grant elevated motives to them either. The Native American affirmative action trail was already there. I don’t see how Warren taking advantage of it “blazes” it for others. I do see how it helps her, and I do see how it helps Harvard burnish their fake diversity cred, however. So it looks to me like there’s plenty of evidence for baser motives but not much for elevated.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The seventies just weren’t as crazy about this stuff. Back then affirmative action still meant what it was supposed to mean in the first place - making sure you included everyone in your hiring pool.

    How many true Native Americans would even be interested then, let alone qualify? Harvard didn’t want diversity numbers to meet quotas, there weren’t quotas yet, they wanted them to drum up interest in under-represented populations. That they were taking, yes, affirmative action to broaden their applicant pool.

    It’s entirely possible that Warren didn’t even recognize that identifying as Native American would be a plus for her. This was way before the flight from white.

    It’s to her discredit that she’s now fallen in with such a bad crowd that she wasn’t able to just tell the truth and let people reach their own decisions but that’s my best guess at what that truth was.

  157. @Almost Missouri
    I too prefer to leave assignment of base motives to my adversaries, but conversely I see no reason to grant elevated motives to them either. The Native American affirmative action trail was already there. I don't see how Warren taking advantage of it "blazes" it for others. I do see how it helps her, and I do see how it helps Harvard burnish their fake diversity cred, however. So it looks to me like there's plenty of evidence for baser motives but not much for elevated.

    The seventies just weren’t as crazy about this stuff. Back then affirmative action still meant what it was supposed to mean in the first place – making sure you included everyone in your hiring pool.

    How many true Native Americans would even be interested then, let alone qualify? Harvard didn’t want diversity numbers to meet quotas, there weren’t quotas yet, they wanted them to drum up interest in under-represented populations. That they were taking, yes, affirmative action to broaden their applicant pool.

    It’s entirely possible that Warren didn’t even recognize that identifying as Native American would be a plus for her. This was way before the flight from white.

    It’s to her discredit that she’s now fallen in with such a bad crowd that she wasn’t able to just tell the truth and let people reach their own decisions but that’s my best guess at what that truth was.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    It’s to her discredit that she’s now fallen in with such a bad crowd that she wasn’t able to just tell the truth.
     
    She told the truth. She has Native American ancestry.
  158. Anonymous[313] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    The seventies just weren’t as crazy about this stuff. Back then affirmative action still meant what it was supposed to mean in the first place - making sure you included everyone in your hiring pool.

    How many true Native Americans would even be interested then, let alone qualify? Harvard didn’t want diversity numbers to meet quotas, there weren’t quotas yet, they wanted them to drum up interest in under-represented populations. That they were taking, yes, affirmative action to broaden their applicant pool.

    It’s entirely possible that Warren didn’t even recognize that identifying as Native American would be a plus for her. This was way before the flight from white.

    It’s to her discredit that she’s now fallen in with such a bad crowd that she wasn’t able to just tell the truth and let people reach their own decisions but that’s my best guess at what that truth was.

    It’s to her discredit that she’s now fallen in with such a bad crowd that she wasn’t able to just tell the truth.

    She told the truth. She has Native American ancestry.

    • LOL: Desiderius

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