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From the New York Times news section:

Landlords Barred From Using Criminal Records to Deny Housing

Rental applications in New Jersey will no longer ask about criminal convictions, and landlords’ use of background checks will be limited.

By Tracey Tully
June 4, 2021

Freed at 42 after more than a decade in New Jersey prisons, Boris Franklin scrambled for a place to live.

First he lived with one of his sisters. Then another.

Why did he stop?

Convicted of manslaughter after a drug deal that turned deadly,

Don’t you just hate it when that happens?

he quickly learned that he would have to reveal his criminal record whenever he applied for housing, making it virtually impossible to lease an apartment on his own.

“It got to the point where I’d ask, ‘Before I pay the $50 application fee, what will happen?’” said Mr. Franklin, who is now 48.

“And they’d say, ‘Don’t bother putting the application in.’”

On Thursday, New Jersey lawmakers approved a landmark bill that bars landlords from asking about criminal convictions on housing applications, marking a major step in a yearslong effort to create a system where people’s past mistakes do not perpetually derail them.

Cities including Newark, San Francisco and Seattle have adopted similar legislation, and Colorado in 2019 offered limited protections to prospective tenants with criminal records.

But New Jersey’s bill, which sets fines as high as $10,000 and establishes mechanisms for investigating landlords who rely only on criminal background checks to reject would-be renters, is considered the most sweeping of its kind.

The New Jersey Apartment Association, an industry group that represents more than 200,000 landlords and housing managers, had initial concerns about the legislation. But the association’s executive director, David Brogan, said amendments “led to a much more balanced bill.”

“People should not be punished for the rest of their lives for something they did years ago,” he said.

I wonder what the New Jersey Apartment Tenant Association thinks about manslaughterers moving in down the hall?

Convictions for certain serious crimes, including murder and many sex offenses, can still be grounds for denying any application.

The effort to level the field for people with criminal records who are trying to find housing is particularly noteworthy in a state that operates the most racially unbalanced prison system in the nation. A 2016 study found that New Jersey imprisoned 12 Black inmates for each white inmate.

Weird, isn’t it, how liberal states like New Jersey and Minnesota have much higher racial ratios of imprisoning whites than blacks than conservative states like Alabama?

… But they may no longer factor in most crimes committed long ago, and the so-called look-back window decreases with the severity of the crime.

Landlords, for example, may consider first-degree crimes for six years after release from prison when deciding on applicants. But fourth-degree crimes may only be used as a factor for either a year after a person’s release from custody or, if they are not sentenced to jail or prison time, the date of conviction.

Mr. Franklin’s conviction for manslaughter, a second-degree crime, means landlords would have been able to consider it for only four years after his release in 2015.

 
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  1. Gamecock says:

    Government interferes with the market place. The market place continues on as before. NOT.

    Finding someone willing to rent anything might get kinda tough. If you can’t check, you assume.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @SaneClownPosse
  2. marking a major step in a yearslong effort to create a system where people’s past mistakes do not perpetually derail them

    Because there’s absolutely no predictive value in scrutinizing people’s past mistakes.

    /sarc

    • Replies: @Neuday
  3. Goorin says:

    “Weird, isn’t it, how liberal states like New Jersey and Minnesota have much higher racial ratios of imprisoning whites than blacks than conservative states like Alabama?”

    The numbers here are quite fascinating, from vera house it looks like Both NJ and AL have 2.25% of blacks 15-64 incarcerated. MN is at nearly exactly 2.0%

    However the big difference is whites. While AL has 0.88% of whites incarcerated, MN is 0.27% and NJ at just 0.25%

    https://www.vera.org/downloads/pdfdownloads/state-incarceration-trends-new-jersey.pdf
    https://www.vera.org/downloads/pdfdownloads/state-incarceration-trends-alabama.pdf
    https://www.vera.org/downloads/pdfdownloads/state-incarceration-trends-minnesota.pdf

  4. Cortes says:

    Residents of lousy apartment buildings in New Jersey are unlikely to be able to exercise much choice really.

    “I got bored with the chat about Patagonia or the South Island this winter and decided to get real in Camden. More falafel, Pookie?” is a stretch for conversation heard through paper-thin walls.

    The principle behind treating convictions as “spent” for employment and other applications is acceptable if the misdemeanours of youth can be memory holed. Major crime is another matter. Here’s the UK table for information:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rehabilitation-periods

    • Disagree: Cloudbuster
  5. More do-goodery of the upper-crustees with the heads in the clouds – at the expense of their real-world contemporaries.

    This mentality arises together with woke-ism. The state as a priest – ego te absolvo.
    The fellow citizens of the evildoer coerced into the role of saints – puppets at the command of their betters with the deep-felt insights.

    (One more step on the path of the badly executed secularisation of our Christian – may I say: Past?)

    • Replies: @vhrm
    , @Muggles
  6. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:
    @Gamecock

    Massachusetts sets aside 10% of all units in apartment buildings to section 8ers. Even in luxury apartment buildings. While they still do criminal checks it’s only statewide (CORI in MA). People with felony convictions, like George Floyd, just move to a new state to start over with a clean record (probably told/helped to do so by a social worker). Private employers (or even local/state) and landlords/residential leasing companies can’t really do nationwide criminal checks (FBI/NCIC database). I know, because in a previous job I did criminal checks for a living. Visited a lot of courthouses.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Thanks: vhrm
    • Replies: @Sick 'n Tired
  7. Don’t you just hate it when that happens?

    Let’s not bicker and argue about ‘oo killed ‘oo….

    • LOL: Lurker, photondancer
  8. This law must surely reduce the value of every rental property in New Jersey.
    It’s yet more theft of equity in the name of “equity”.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
  9. usNthem says:

    Yeah, a negro criminal turns its life around – and the odds of that are…..infinitesimal – beyond a few weeks or months. Impulsivity, lack of future time orientation, actually contemplating the consequences of that impulsivity. Just who one would want living next door. This pathetic excuse of a (former) country is howdy doody time.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    , @3g4me
  10. Rob McX says:

    The effort to level the field for people with criminal records who are trying to find housing is particularly noteworthy in a state that operates the most racially unbalanced prison system in the nation. A 2016 study found that New Jersey imprisoned 12 Black inmates for each white inmate.

    So, forbidden from finding out if he’s been in prison, a landlord will be 12 times as likely to refuse to rent to a black.

    • Agree: Some Guy
    • Replies: @res
    , @Mike_from_SGV
  11. UNIT472 says:

    This really isn’t that bad a law given the exceptions. The reality is for most ex cons staying current on their rent is going to be their major problem. I assume being evicted for non payment of rent is not an ‘exception’ so an ex con who had a non violent felony conviction and can pay his rent is a ‘good tenant’ as far as most landlords are concerned.

  12. @Gamecock

    Denied because of a lack of current rental history or a low credit score.

    Same criteria would deny a white male who went off grid, and used barter, for six years.

    Therefore it’s not racist nor based on a criminal record.

  13. vhrm says:

    On this topic I’m more in favor of the law than against it; or at the very least i think there has to be a solution to the issue of what happens after one gets out of jail. Housing/education/jobs … these are serious issues.

    It’s not about coddling criminals, or just a moral question about their lives, though that is a factor, but from a practical point of view, if you let people out and they have no path to re-entry into society the chance for recidivism and it’s attendant cost on society (in terms of crime, future incarceration, etc) is pretty high.

    Dieter Kief above mentions that this is some afront to Christianity, but…

    Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38And when did we see You as a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of Mine, you did it for Me.’
    Matt 25:34-40 https://biblehub.com/nasb_/matthew/25.htm

  14. SafeNow says:

    Related is doing a background inquiry on a potential hire’s criminal history. In California, you can’t ask. Laws vary from place to place. Many people don’t check-out a potential business partner to see if he has a criminal history or has been sued civilly. Private investigators can do these checks easily and cheaply. They have special computer databases. It’s not like the old days when Jim Rockford had to get into his Camaro and drive down to the courthouse and hall of records. Also, investigators are pretty good at piercing through an alias. The home-care worker you were hiring to take care of grandma might have a clean name now, but the investigator is good at piercing through that to get to the old name. This happened in our family. The report cost around $200. I suspect that investigators will continue to do this work where it is not legal, but they will need to trust you, or if not, the attorney who will act as your intermediary.

    Of course, the easiest procedure is to rent/hire to an Asian-American woman.

  15. I’m acquainted with small business owners who, out of economic necessity and in the spirit of Christian forgiveness, have hired ex-cons. I suppose that there are also landlords who are willing to take a chance.

    As government policies only make things worse, this law will wind up making more, homeless ex-cons.

    The issue of the large number of folks in US jails aside, violent criminals should be locked up for the full length of their sentences, rather than paroled at 50%. That would reduce the number of applicants for apartments.

    • Replies: @Achilleus
  16. vhrm says:
    @Dieter Kief

    This mentality arises together with woke-ism. The state as a priest – ego te absolvo.
    The fellow citizens of the evildoer coerced into the role of saints – puppets at the command of their betters with the deep-felt insights.

    As far as i understand it, this is an explicit part of our social contract and always has been in the US. It is a function of the state to adjudicate and punish those who have injured society.

    What do you see as a difference between denying someone a job or housing just because of their crime compared to any other vigilante justice after someone has already “paid their debt to society”?

    Is there an increased risk to the landlord that the government is forcing him to take on an ex-con? Yes there is. But there’s an increased risk to anyone walking on the street, to the guy selling a burger to this person etc. Where do you draw the line on “free association” vs the above mentioned monopoly of the state for punishing criminals?

    Will you think differently when all of us here (except TD) are added to the Hate Registry in a few years?

  17. Mr. Franklin’s conviction for manslaughter, a second-degree crime, means landlords would have been able to consider it for only four years after his release in 2015.

    Ah, but there needs to an exception for people with names like Winston Boogie Smith. I’m thinking Boris Franklin has so much to offer. For instance, Boris Natasha Franklin for vacillating transgenders.

  18. Berkeley did this probably a year ago and when I mentioned it here there were scoffs, as if it wasn’t true. This is low level wokeness. States, cities and counties with leftist majorities in government are all for this. No bail, no jail, early release, no car chases, no foot pursuits, re-imagining policing, restoritive justice and everything viewed through a racial justice lens. Berkeley police not allowed to ask if a suspect is on parole or on probation, no vehicle stops for expired registration or no plates. Red light cameras and license plate readers are racist. Steal up to $950 and an appearance ticket. george floyd’s little daughter…”My daddy changed the world.” Sure did kid, now live in this shit.

    • Replies: @res
  19. I bet he wouldn’t have killed that guy if he’d known it was going to lead to difficulty getting an apartment.

  20. Polistra says:

    people’s past mistakes … manslaughter after a drug deal that turned deadly

    I made a boo-boo! Could happen to anyone!

    “People should not be punished for the rest of their lives for something they did years ago,” he said.

    Right? So why are there life sentences, or for that matter sentences longer than a few years? Restorative Justice actually demands that the people we call ‘crime victims’ are the ones we should incarcerate, and give their houses to people who made boo-boos.

    Landlords, for example, may consider first-degree crimes for six years after release from prison when deciding on applicants. But fourth-degree crimes may only be used as a factor for either a year after a person’s release from custody or, if they are not sentenced to jail or prison time, the date of conviction.

    What could be simpler? I’ll tell you what: The Word Salad Generator.

    Landlords, borg ample, bad consider burst-agree bribes boar wig yarn astor release broom arson whom deciding yon applicants. Bag worth-agree brides was any beck awed aids zan actor woe bather ask blear baxter al benson’ass release whom custody worn, ax when airer won sentenced ah bawl zoe briton bike, aye waite woo conviction.

    I demand that this text be written into law.

    • Replies: @photondancer
  21. @vhrm

    What that means is forced goodness (= dumbness in disguise). – Things like that strike me as being irrational and illiberal.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  22. Polistra says:
    @vhrm

    What do you see as a difference between denying someone a job or housing just because of their crime compared to any other vigilante justice after someone has already “paid their debt to society”?

    It’s not denying them a house or a job, it’s just denying them this house or this job. If I’m renting a house or running a business, I should have the right to decide whom I want as a tenant or an employee. Do you really disagree?

    Will you think differently when all of us here (except TD) are added to the Hate Registry in a few years?

    The Future is Now!

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fbi-demands-info-on-who-read-a-usa-today-story-about-shooting-that-killed-two-agents/ar-AAKIwEU

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @vhrm
    , @Corvinus
  23. @Rob McX

    This is scary stuff.
    The two pictures of her in the Mail on Sunday look rather telling. She seems to be in trouble.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  24. Cortes says:
    @Rob McX

    Thank goodness she doesn’t look like she’s wired to the Moon. Or Neptune. Or Alpha Centauri.

  25. Elli says:

    Is there a Mrs. Murphy exemption?

    • LOL: Gary in Gramercy
    • Replies: @Hibernian
  26. “…in a yearslong effort to create a system where people’s past mistakes do not perpetually derail them.”

    “a drug deal that turned deadly”

    English translation: Boris Franklin didn’t “make a mistake,” he committed murder in the commission of a felony.

    And “drug deals” don’t “turn deadly.” One armed felon decides to rob another felon, with the murder a package deal.

    Franklin’s crime perpetually derailed his victim’s life.

    The only sort of justice for said victim would have been Franklin’s execution. Instead, Franklin got a cut-rate felony murder. The “manslaughter” deal was affirmative action criminal justice, and the watered-down description by the times is affirmative action journalism.

    “a state that operates the most racially unbalanced prison system in the nation.”

    English translation: New Jersey fails to railroad sufficient numbers of innocent Whites, and its black criminals, whom we support, are out of control.

    “Convictions for certain serious crimes, including murder and many sex offenses, can still be grounds for denying any application.”

    That’s double-talk, which was already exposed by fake news reporter Tracey Tully’s “thing”: Boris Franklin is a murderer, and he’s Tully’s poster boy for “leveling the field.”

    The problem is that New Jersey abolished justice years ago, and has worked since to make it an ever more hospitable state for colored criminals, and ever less hospitable for their victims.

    • Agree: AceDeuce
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  27. anon[421] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rob McX

    Lol, her picture is funny and very revealing.

    Shee, I can drop her off on a street corner in a lot of places and she’d be “Dat white bish!” in seconds. Heck, let’s just get on the 3 train and ride up north to the end of the line, shall we, DOCtor? All you gotta do is keep it real, honey.

    She should consider seeing a psychiatrist about her anger and hallucination issues before the problem gets worse.

    • Replies: @3g4me
  28. Polistra says:
    @Rob McX

    A New York City-based psychiatrist told an audience at the Yale School of Medicine in April that she had fantasies of “unloading a revolver into the head of any white person that got in my way.”

    Dr. Aruna Khilanani said she’d walk away from the shooting “with a bounce in my step” and that white people “make my blood boil” and “are out of their minds and have been for a long time” — at the Ivy League institution’s Child Study Center on April 6.

    And some people wonder why psychiatrists are distrusted. Imagine being a white person ‘treated’ by this expert. Worse yet, a child.

    A place like the Yale School of Medicine is about as exalted as it gets in our society–save perhaps the HQs of Silicon Valley corporations–and this is what’s being purveyed there.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
  29. Anonymous[377] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nicholas Stix

    The only colored criminal here is you. Leftism works.

  30. Franz says:

    Dr Aruna Khilanani tells a Yale audience she fantasizes about shooting white people in the head and thinking ‘she did the world a ‘f**king favor’.

    She actually would be, if she actually did it. It would give us a warrant to outlaw psychiatry and maybe even shutting down Yale, without which the country would be one step closer to sanity.

    Why isn’t what she said considered incitement to violence.

  31. Mr Deeds says:

    The great difficulties that people will face AFTER being released from prison should incentivize people from not engaging in criminal activity even more so.

    But whatever. They made their bed and now they have to sleep in it (which oddly enough isn’t a bed because they can’t get an apartment).

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @Alden
  32. AndrewR says:
    @Dieter Kief

    What’s disturbing isn’t that some insane, street-shitting thot has racist, violent thoughts. It’s that she’s in a position of power, is given a microphone by an elite institution and suffers no negative consequences whatsoever for her genocidal rhetoric. If white supremacy were even remotely real, she would never have said that stuff out of fear for her career and indeed her life. But whites are so pathetic that we just allow this behavior like the doormats that we are. I don’t even blame Jews anymore. It’s pure white masochism and cowardice that permits this behavior to continue and to accelerate.

    We really do deserve to be genocided. We outnumber and outgun our enemies by many times, yet we sit here pathetically, tranquilized by sportsball, beer and weed, and paralyzed by atomized individualism.

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Moses
    , @Moses
    , @Moses
  33. AndrewR says:
    @Rob McX

    Why does she feel bold enough to say this in public? Why does the Yale administration not feel the need to issue breathless denunciations of her genocidal rhetoric? Why are white people such pathetic doormats? At this point I’m about ready to load white people in boxcars myself. If even 1/10th of white people united against this genocidal movement against us then our problems could be gone almost overnight. But collectively we are stupid, cowardly and traitorous.

    Susan Sonntag famously called white people the cancer of the human race. Well I’ve never heard of a cancer that aggressively seeks to eliminate itself. What a stupid old bat she was.

    • Replies: @gabriel alberton
  34. So I guess a credit check is out of the question?

  35. AceDeuce says:
    @vhrm

    LOL. You talk of a “social contract”. Well, contracts are two-way things, aren’t they? It would be ever so nice if the ferals signed the thing and abided by it..

    “OK Mr. Child raper, you’ve paid your debt to society. You can live in this apartment that has plenty of kids and is across from an elementary school. Don’t bugger any of them, m-m-kay?

    ” Oh, yes. I promise. I was more into oral, anyway”.

    “Well, don’t do that, either, OK?

    “Yeah, I hear you. Stop bugging me, racist.

    “Sorry about that. Enjoy your apartment”

    You want in on that deal?

    • Thanks: JerseyJeffersonian
  36. @vhrm

    I imagine a White landlord seeing that a prospective tenant is on the Hate Registry would make up his mind to not only rent to him, but to re-paint the rooms and install new ceiling fans and a stainless steel refrigerator.

    I think your worry includes the assumption that Big Biz will be doing a lot of the renting. That’s the way things are heading, but is another problem in and of itself. Individuals and small businessmen can think for themselves.

    • Agree: Cloudbuster
  37. Mike Tre says:

    “People should not be punished for the rest of their lives for something they did years ago,”

    The people who are forced to associate with the Penal-Americans are the ones who should be punished for the rest of their lives!

    • Replies: @Dissident
  38. Typical crappy tenant behavior as an example here:

    Offered my tenant $3,000 to get out, lease was up May 15th – Toms River NJ from RealEstate

    …I suspect the “New Jersey Apartment Association” is mainly ruled by corporate landlords who have crunched the numbers and realize that this sort of behavior drives out mom-n-pop landlords, which is more beneficial than the occasional murderer/deadbeat is costly.

    • Replies: @Sick 'n Tired
    , @Barnard
  39. @Rob McX

    Rob, in a sense this isn’t Off Topic. The topic is White people suck. Truth is we aren’t destroying the black community. Their problems are self inflicted. We can’t solve their problems, they won’t solve their problems. The Woke won’t even acknowledge problems. Stay safe.

    • Agree: UNIT472
  40. The irony is that absent background checks, etc, landlords will just go with what they can see.

    Like, say, skin color.

  41. Convicted of manslaughter after a drug deal that turned deadly,

    Don’t you just hate it when that happens?

    Well, they seem to imply that the drug deal itself is already wrong. So that’s an improvement.

    I wonder what the New Jersey Apartment Tenant Association thinks about manslaughterers moving in down the hall?

    Who needs a flat out in Hackensack-ack-ack-ack-ack-ack-ack
    You oughta know by now…

    • LOL: Dissident
    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
  42. https://nypost.com/2021/06/04/nyc-pyscho-fantasizes-about-shooting-white-people-in-yale-talk/

    Brahmin-American declares White-Americans impure, punished in this reincarnation for sins in past lives, who contaminate water and food they might touch.

    She demands that they:

    • Be prohibited from eating with Brahmin-Americans
    • Be provided separate sets of cups at Starbucks
    • Have separate seating arrangements and utensils in restaurants
    • Be segregated in seating and food arrangements at public functions and festivals
    • Not be mingled with Brahmin-Americans in the workplace
    • Be prohibited from wearing shoes or holding umbrellas in front of Brahmin-Americans
    • Be prohibited from entering Brahmin-American homes
    • Be consigned to side streets and alleys
    • Maintain separate cemeteries
    • Be excluded from public parks, hotels, fairs
    • Attend segregated schools
    • Be deprived of the vote

    Namaste

    • Thanks: Polistra, ic1000
  43. @vhrm

    What do you see as a difference between denying someone a job or housing just because of their crime compared to any other vigilante justice after someone has already “paid their debt to society”?

    You don’t have the right to attack someone except in self-defense. You do have the right to refuse to rent to or hire someone.

    Will you think differently when all of us here (except TD) are added to the Hate Registry in a few years?

    I’m sure the people who passed this law will be clapping for that.

  44. Usually, after a measure like this is passed and it turns into a shit-show, the measure is “quietly repealed” at some point in the future.

    The phrase “quietly repealed” is one of my favorite cliche phrases in news stories, always in stories where the news source is trying to say, “Ok, it failed last time, but let’s try that communism again, but this time harder!”

  45. @Reg Cæsar

    Yeah, the usual Marxist-corporate-newspeak is “drug deal gone wrong “, because, my goodness, who would think a drug deal was bad otherwise?

  46. @vhrm

    The underlying problem is that it’s hard to evict people. If it were made easier, there wouldn’t be so much reluctance to rent to felons.

    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
  47. @Rob McX

    Dr Aruna Khilanani, who runs her own practice in Manhattan…

    Dr Aruna Khilanani = A rural Indian Khan.

    • Replies: @Polistra
  48. Steve

    Another post-1965 Immigration Reform Act Blessing of Diversity:Aruna Khilannani MD Yale Medical and she has fantasies fantasies of slaughtering White People with a gun…..on video…spoke about at Yale Med School…

    Ronald Reagan let the Iranians in after the hostage crisis…So why did White Guys vote for Ronald Reagan?

    • Replies: @guest
    , @Redneck farmer
  49. Wilkey says:
    @vhrm

    As far as i understand it, this is an explicit part of our social contract and always has been in the US. It is a function of the state to adjudicate and punish those who have injured society. What do you see as a difference between denying someone a job or housing just because of their crime compared to any other vigilante justice after someone has already “paid their debt to society”?

    This is nonsense. The government’s job is to punish the guilty. What you are suggesting is that the government deny private individuals the right to use their private property as they see fit. That includes the right to lease to or hire whomever they want.

    Instead the government has now inserted itself into almost every decision a business or property owner might make, at huge risk to the owner – perhaps the loss of their business or property – if they do not comply.

    • Thanks: JerseyJeffersonian
  50. @vhrm

    “from a practical point of view, if you let people out and they have no path to re-entry into society the chance for recidivism and it’s attendant cost on society (in terms of crime, future incarceration, etc) is pretty high.”

    The solution is not to release violent criminals at all. Lock them up forever. Abolish parole.

    • Replies: @John Cunningham
  51. Wilkey says:
    @vhrm

    As far as i understand it, this is an explicit part of our social contract and always has been in the US. It is a function of the state to adjudicate and punish those who have injured society. What do you see as a difference between denying someone a job or housing just because of their crime compared to any other vigilante justice after someone has already “paid their debt to society”?

    This is nonsense. The government’s job is to punish the guilty. What you are suggesting is that the government deny private individuals the right to use their private property as they see fit. That includes the right to lease to or hire whomever they want.

    Instead the government has now inserted itself into almost every decision a business or property owner might make, at huge risk to the owner – perhaps the loss of their business or property – if they do not comply.

    I don’t see where it was ever any sort of American, Anglo-Saxon, or Western ideal that a term in prison should be the full extent of a criminal’s punishment. There have always been consequences to criminal behavior besides just imprisonment. Many crimes – most crimes, actually – don’t result in any incarceration at all. In most cases a fine or probation is the only government punishment ever rendered. Social stigmatization, loss of job opportunities, loss of voting rights, etc. have long been part of the formal and informal consequences of criminal behavior. The informal consequences of criminal behavior are, purely and simply, the God-given rights of a free people to do as they please with their own lives and property.

    Fear of such consequences is quite often *the* biggest reason to avoid criminal behavior, and the abolition of them, even as we admit an ever larger number of Third World miscreants into our society, is not going to make civic life any more peaceful.

    • Thanks: Dissident
    • Replies: @Alden
  52. “Convictions for certain serious crimes, including murder and many sex offenses, can still be grounds for denying any application.”

    It still astonishes me that we have sex offender registries, but not murder offender registries.

    • Agree: Dissident
    • Replies: @J.Ross
  53. Alden says:
    @vhrm

    Society broke its contract with me and mine in summer of 1968 affirmative action aka no Whites need apply law, Griggs 1973 and kaiser 1979.

    When society restores the 14th amendment rights to Whites then its time to talk about the social contract again. At the present time the Americans are in the first stages of genocide.

    As for giving criminals jobs. Remember the infamous Rodney King was a felon on parole when arrested. And given a city government job as groundskeeper at Dodger Stadium before he was released from prison. Many large retail companies, the union supermarkets such as Kroger , all of them and Walgreens have deals with the state governments to hire criminals when they are released from prison.

    I’m really something of a socialist; in theory. But USG broke the social contract with Whites decades ago. For instance school integration. Millions of White children bullied beaten robbed raped and terrorized from age 5 to 18 by the savages . If the savages had been controlled the White children would have been safe. But Jewish legal foundations and judges made it impossible to co trim the black savages.

    Thus millions of White children’s lives were ruined and our great cities were destroyed because USG busses the savages into schools far from their own jungle neighborhoods.

    Socialism and social contracts are fine for normal human society. But add savages into the midst and the social contract is broken.

    Also, as a former probation officer, I know a lot more about the living and employment arrangements of criminals than you do. And it’s not any more difficult for them to get jobs and housing than if they weren’t criminals.

    In fact, if they are black it’s far more likely they end up safe and secure as a government or quasi government worker like hospital school or university employee than the average young White man.

    My last job was floating administrative assistant or clerk at a major California university. Many many of the janitor gardener low skill maintenance, clerical, especially food service clerical central supply type workers were criminals on parole. In fact, I’d estimate that most of the black men employed at the university and hospital had criminal records.

    The big county hospital and associated clinics employee massive numbers of black men with criminal records in food service janitor central supply etc.

    Then there’s security guard. Probably the majority of the black men working those jobs are criminals. Government truck drivers for local government.

    Because state and county governments pressure the big employers to hire blacks with criminal records.

    • Agree: AceDeuce
    • Thanks: vhrm
  54. “Weird, isn’t it, how liberal states like New Jersey and Minnesota have much higher racial ratios of imprisoning whites than blacks than conservative states like Alabama?”

    And why is that? In all seriousness, how come? Has anyone done an analysis of racial disparities in sentencing and incarceration between the states? Is there a consistent pattern of disparity between red and blue states? Between Northern and Southern states, between rural and urban areas, between more and less multi cultural / racial jurisdictions? If there are any patterns of disparity, does anyone have any explanations for them?

  55. res says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Thanks. Here is a link to an article about that.
    https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Berkeley-bans-criminal-background-checks-in-most-15121949.php

    One subtlety which I think makes the Berkeley measure a good bit more acceptable.

    The ordinance will not apply to permitted accessory dwelling units, single-family homes, duplexes and triplexes. It also won’t apply to property owners who rent their homes when they are on sabbatical or if they are renting a room in the property they live in.

    • Thanks: Buffalo Joe
    • Replies: @vhrm
    , @Almost Missouri
  56. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @vhrm

    Dieter Kief above mentions that this is some afront to Christianity, but…

    You seem to have misunderstood his comment. He said:

    (One more step on the path of the badly executed secularisation of our Christian – may I say: Past?)

    The problem with this government-mandated coddling of criminals is not the basic humane instinct of giving criminals a second, third etc. chance in the face of one’s “better” rational judgment, but the inevitably ham-fisted, secularized implementation through government fiat and busybody commissars, rather than based on individual conscience and compassion.

    • Agree: Dieter Kief
  57. Alden says:
    @Wilkey

    Saxons live in Germany in the staat former kingdom of Saxony, not America or any English speaking nation. And if you knew what they did to the native Britons 450-700 AD you wouldn’t keep citing them. Although they were no worse that the preceding Romans or succeeding Vikings. DNA research proves that the hundred thousand or so Saxons who invaded have left little DNA. It’s all DNA from the native Britons going back 40,000 years.

    For further information check out Sir Walter Scott and his 1820 book Ivanhoe, Venerable Bede’s history of England,, the King Arthur legends, the 19th century English European Romantic movement in fiction history art architecture religion mores and manners and everything else, American nativism and most important that war monger Winston Churchill and the English government conning America into WWs 1 and 2 to learn how that ridiculous Anglo Saxon myth rose.

    Saxons live in Saxony Germany. Where civil rights were unknown until 1990 after the end of the Russian occupation,

  58. @vhrm

    What Jesus is describing is voluntary; it’s charity.

    What NJ is doing is compulsion. It’s forcing people to be ‘charitable’ via the threat of state power.

    • Agree: Lockean Proviso
  59. guest says:

    “a drug deal that turned deadly”

    Correction: the drug deal turned manslaughtery.

    “level the field”

    Are we still putting it that way? Sounds racist, much like “equal opportunity.”

    I know: since Property Is Theft, let’s say denying an apartment to manslaughterers who happen to be black constitutes stealing an appartment from him. In which case if you want to deny him the opportunity to rent from you, you can pay him money for his next drug deal.

  60. guest says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Some Persians look white. It’s tricky.

    • Replies: @john nutter
  61. Alden says:

    L.I.A.B.I.I.I.T.Y when a criminal, whether tenant, guest of a tenant , worker , delivery person or anyone else injures a tenant , worker, delivery person or anyone else in a building the landlord is liable for the damages.

    Well, I’ve inputted my knowledge of criminals and employment prospects if they’re black, being a paranoid landlord and working at government jobs with blacks on parole to this discussion . So good night guys.

  62. Eric416 says:

    I live in NJ, although in a rural part in the Appalachian foothills that never gets put on TV or the movies. It’s a pretty simple explanation why the incarceration ratio is what it is. We have a lot of urban hellscapes that are breeding grounds for black superpredators compared to sparsely populated Alabama. Newark(and moreso its uberghetto suberbs East Orange and Irvington), Camden, Paterson, Atlantic City, Trenton, Jersey City, etc.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  63. CARenter says:

    When Megan’s Law came out, I always thought there should be a similar registry for homicide. Call me old fashioned, but killing someone seems right up there with flashing your cucumber in public.

    I live in CA, make 6 figs but got a disabled kid, no way can persons of my “privileged” status own a home here. And no, we can’t move, my job and SpecialBus’s stuff is all state-tied. In my culture you don’t pull a gun on a cop unless it’s some kind of elaborate suicidal life-insurance scam. Even if the cop is a giant dick. We also only shoot non-cops if they dissed us in a violent manner while on our property in a way suggesting they intended to kill SpecialBus.

    Basically I just wanna live next to manslaughter-ers of my own kind. Don’t care what they look like, don’t care about their background, do care about where they think the line is as a firearm owner. Call me racist, sure, but SpecialBus can’t understand the difference between people and objects, much less among genders or races. In him lies the future. Plus he’d be good with firearms if I taught him.

  64. Oh, absolutely. Anyone who has a criminal record should have to sleep in the street and freeze to death in the winter. Stands to reason.

    In fact people with criminal records should not be allowed to stay in hotels or motels or ALFs or AirBnbs, or the Salvation Army either. Or on camp sites. How dare they think that they can ever sleep indoors in a bed again once they are released from prison.

    All released criminals should be picked up at the prison gate and taken immediately to special trailer parks in the Aleutian islands that concentrate on providing Spartan accommodation for ex-cons where they will be supervised by Nazi lesbian probation officers and take cold seawater showers.

    That will teach them.

  65. @Anonymous

    Well, if by that you mean that the local DA pled whatever egregious horror down to a slap on the wrist, I guess so. But that’s not what it feels like when you, the citizen of that godforsaken municipality, are forced to live under that sort of misrule of law.

    The word is anarco-tyranny, asshole.

  66. @Goorin

    While AL has 0.88% of whites incarcerated,

    Probably Auburn grads. Roll Tide!

    • LOL: Hibernian
  67. anon[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    All convicts who have completed their sentences should move in with you and your family. An allowance for food and sundries would be provided to them, so they would not burden you.

    What could go wrong?

    • LOL: Jay Fink
  68. So, when one of these tenants kills another tenant, who gets sued for renting to the murderer?

    And it will happen, multiple times.

  69. @Jonathan Mason

    So, Jonathon, rent them your spare bedroom. Put your property where your mouth is.

    • Agree: 3g4me
  70. guest says:
    @Alden

    Your beef appears to be with the terminology. If there was bad or misleading history/mythology behind what we refer to as Anglo-Saxon culture, okay. But that culture is a real thing and here mixed with American culture not directly derived from the Mother Country, it has ideas on property ownership.

    It’s strange to me that you would go off on a fellow poster when you almost certainly know this. Because his point did not rely upon the tradition coming from Saxony in particular. He employed a common name for it. Lay off.

    I might refer to the country in which I currently reside as”America” despite knowing it constitutes merely a part of the Americas. Big deal.

    • Agree: Hangnail Hans
  71. A kid should not be admitted to a public school without first passing a criminal background check (and paying tuition). At the very least, parents should be able to find out how many juvenile delinquents are enrolled at their kid’s school.

    When some kid punches out the lights of another, in the middle of class, the district will simply reassign the aspiring MMA to another school in the district (and suspend the kid who was KO’d).

    [MORE]

    Speaking of which, if a parent complains often enough to the district about problems at the school, e.g. bullying, poor academics, etc., the district might try to appease the parent by offering their kid another school “that has room”. But the reason why there’s a spot open is because the other school is even more crappy than the one the parents are trying to flee.

    • Agree: J.Ross
  72. Anon[214] • Disclaimer says:
    @AndrewR

    The fundamental problem are equal opportunity and civil rights laws. As soon as it became illegal to discriminate for any reason whatsoever, minorities didn’t abide by the rules at all. They started taking advantage of the law to discriminate against whites, which was not the original intention of those laws.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @Alden
  73. Moses says:

    “People should not be punished for the rest of their lives for something they did years ago,” he said.

    These are the same people who dig up ages-old tweets and summon online mobs and demand the target be fired.

    Same people.

    No, I’m not whining about hypocrisy. I’m observing Power at work. Pure Power.

    The Right should pay attention.

    The more blatantly and publicly hypocritical a person/group is, the more Power they have.

    This is how realpolitik works.

  74. Anon[214] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: AOC just got into trouble by revealing that she has a grandmother living in squalor in Puerto Rico–whom she refuses to personally help. Obama was exactly the same way with his African relatives. Didn’t lift a finger for them, but tried to use them for libtard talking points. This is classic libtard behavior.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/journalist-raises-65k-help-aocs-abandoned-abuela

  75. Anon[237] • Disclaimer says:

    I used to own some units in Maryland (in Charles Murray’s burg). A professional property management firm handled rentals. In asking me to approve a new tenant they scrupulously filtered from me any information about forbidden topics, which in Maryland weirdly includes whether a tenant is an attorney. Attorneys are a protected class, because nobody wants to rent to them, and the Maryland legislature is made up of attorneys. (I did know the names of the prospective tenants, which I suppose might give away something.)

    At any rate, there are other factors you can look at as proxies for troublemakers. You have credit rating, salary, and years employed at current job. You can also ask for a pretty decent prepaid deposit.

    Where I could see trouble developing is if blacks’ trouble in building up a bank account is eliminated via various periodic handouts and “reparations.” What if programs like the bail payment systems run by nonprofits spring up to allow guilty whites and billionaires to pay rent and deposits for blacks? The prospective tenants would seem to have a good credit record at that point, but their overall antisocial behavior would not have changed.

    Although I never had to evict anyone, the management company assured me that in Maryland you can get rid of tenants pretty quickly. They had a policy of filing in court two days after a late rent deadline, and they claimed that sheriffs will show up and physically drag tenants out of the building (which I now find a little hard to believe).

    Thank god I unloaded those rentals shortly before the coronavirus. There but for fortune …

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  76. Polistra says:
    @Anonymous

    Firsts of all, you failed to source your pretty little graphic. For all we know, Abraham Lincoln made up those ‘stats’. Seconds, you seem to be implying that reduced crime is a good thing, and in the Current Year that’s about as racist as you can get. Therefore, you are hereby cancelled.

  77. Whiskey says: • Website
    @Rob McX

    Why wouldn’t she say that? Non Whites HATE HATE HATE Whites and want us all dead. Its standard viewpoints of non Whites who run most Fortune 500 Companies, the government, medial, military, and much of everything else. Our elite hates us because they are of a different race.

    Its just that simple.

    And for an educated professional to say that in a White country indicates that she believes the killing will start very, very soon and she wants to be part of it, she does not want to miss out. I don’t think anyone can deny that very soon Whites will be the subject of a mass murder campaign in this nation. And likely most of Europe.

    All multicultural societies end in a river of blood.

  78. @Alden

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alden_(name)

    DNA research proves that the hundred thousand or so Saxons who invaded have left little DNA. It’s all DNA from the native Britons going back 40,000 years.

    Forsooth! DNA research and I beg to disagree with thee, m’lady.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/what-are-examples-of-debunked-folk-taxonomies-of-race/#comment-3371640

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-worlds-shortest-seminar-tolkien-and-diversity/#comment-4484222

  79. Polistra says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Aruna Khilanani M.D. M.A. on Medium: “I am a forensic psychiatrist and psychoanalyst with a background in critical theory. I have left 2 academic institutions in NYC because of racism. Word.”

    True dat hometta! Universities in NYC are known for their racism and prejudice against PoCs.

    Aruna’s parents are two more Doctors Khilanani (Prem and Urmilla), graduates of Dow Medical College in Karachi, Pakistan. So you know she’s suffered a lot. She also worked for NPR, and got a master’s degree from Chicago where she focused on ‘critical race theory, gender theory, Marxist critique, and post-colonial studies’.

    Fun fact: if it weren’t for colonialism, that medical college in Karachi wouldn’t even exist.

    Dow Medical College is a public medical school located in the city of Karachi, Sindh. It was founded in 1945 and named after Sir Hugh Dow, the British Governor of Sindh.

    Odd that the Pakis never thought to rename this institution, innit?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  80. Anon[237] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    Katie Herzog, writing for Bari Weiss’s Substack, interviews an antiwhite psychiatrist here (down below the audio link):

    https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/the-psychopathic-problem-of-the-white

    This is worthy of Isaac Chotiner at the New Yorker. She lets the subject bury herself by simply asking questions like “Did you file a complaint,” “Why?,” “When was this?,” “Sure,” “Interesting,” “Could you give me an example?,” “What lie specifically are you talking about?”

    At points I thought that the interviewer was ELIZA, the 1960s “non-directional psychotherapist” computer program, the questions were so short and inoffensive.

    The psychiatrist woman is an exagerating lier, so simply asking for more information does a number on her. Then, in an attempt to figure out specifically what she is talking about Herzog starts to supply concrete examples, asking “you mean this?” So that forces the woman to respond concretely, but instead she accuses Herzog of various bad white traits. Herzog lets it all wash over her. It eventually gets to the point that the main white sin seems to be not eating bread due to fake gluten allergies. Those damned white people! They won’t eat bread. “I’m white and I eat bread,” says Herzog. “Aren’t the white non-bread eaters just pseudoscience trend followers?,” asks Herzog. No, no, no! They don’t eat bread because of internalized guilt over colonization.

    When Herzog finally starts to get more voluable she says things like this:

    How does that work? Are you talking about some kind of epigenetics or the passing down of the collective unconscious? I’m an American, a white woman, I don’t have any direct experience with colonialism although I’m sure I’ve benefited from it in some ways, but it’s hard to see how I would be traumatized by this thing that happened before I was born.

    If only more people would ask, “How does that work?”

    This interview is quite entertaining and recommended.

  81. @CARenter

    In him lies the future. Plus he’d be good with firearms if I taught him.

    I’m rooting for SpecialBus!

    • Replies: @Hangnail Hans
  82. @Anon

    Where I could see trouble developing is if blacks’ trouble in building up a bank account is eliminated via various periodic handouts and “reparations.”

    You’re assuming that payouts to felonious punks won’t go straight from gubmint to dealer.

    What if programs like the bail payment systems run by nonprofits spring up to allow guilty whites and billionaires to pay rent and deposits for blacks? The prospective tenants would seem to have a good credit record at that point, but their overall antisocial behavior would not have changed.

    Sudden influxes of cash are looked upon askancely. A good credit record takes at least two years to build up. I don’t think we are going to have such luxuries as credit ratings and money that can buy a loaf of bread two years from now, all thanks to Giveaway Joe. Yup – that guy is working for China.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  83. Polistra says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Funny thing though, that’s very much how our society is now ostracizing self-respecting wypipos, and few seem much bothered by it. Heck, most wypipos isn’t even bothered.

  84. Ragno says:

    But the association’s executive director, David Brogan, said amendments “led to a much more balanced bill.”

    “People should not be punished for the rest of their lives for something they did years ago,” he said.

    When asked how he would react to learning a mad-dog spree killer was moving in down the hall from him, he responded “Oh, I would never rent. You can’t properly represent 200,000 landlords if the Dominican card game next door keeps you up til 4am, what with all the shrieking laughter and drunken bellowing. That’s like setting fire to my money every 30 days.”

    When this reporter pointed out it certainly seems odd – landlords signing off on a law almost certain to get them sued when their tenants begin getting inevitably assaulted and murdered – he quipped, “You know that qualified immunity they took away from the cops? Well they gave it to us…..but the catch is you gotta rent to a nut-brown predator to get it.” Then he pretended to have an important incoming call and began loudly arguing with his hand until I took the hint and walked away.

  85. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Funny, though it would be funnier if weren’t exactly what the TV-viewing public believes is reality.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
  86. Convictions for certain serious crimes, including murder and many sex offenses, can still be grounds for denying any application.

    I’m guessing this bill also includes a clause that mandates rejection of all applicants who have any past history of crimethink. To assist landlords in this task, a new government bureau will be set up to issue CrimeThink scores. These establish the applicants thought-worthiness and are tabulated after a thorough scouring of the applicants’ hard-drives and social media.

  87. vhrm says:
    @res

    The NJ law also only applies to buildings with 5 or more units according to that article. Presumably this is part of the watering down that the landlord association did.

    • Thanks: res
  88. @War for Blair Mountain

    “I an Aryan. My father was Aryan, and his father’s father was Aryan”- founder of the Persian Empire.

  89. @Alden

    As a descendant of Ost Saxons, you’re just a little way off.

  90. Rob says:

    At the bottom is a Time Magazine article describing businesses hiring more blacks and Hispanics when they do criminal background checks.

    They call it an unintended consequence. I say maybe. It was certainly a predictable consequence. Especially if one knows that businesses are not looking for low-level employees who are fantastic. They are looking to avoid terrible hires. Anyone who was ever involved with hiring anywhere would know that.

    Remember when nerdy guidance counselors and educators warned college students about posting thins on Facebook related to underage (gasp!) drinking, partying and such? Turns out, lots of companies want entry-level employees they are planning on promoting quickly who can handle themselves at parties. Having normal dating and relationship histories is also a plus. I knew people who liked hiring guys and girls they could go out drinking with, and who could schmooze clients. I had very good results once from for making fun of the drinking habits of his “people” (are the Irish really people?) then offering him a nice cold Guinness at work. My grand boss got a very good contract out of that. Dude even told him my joke got them the contract.

    [MORE]

    Back to background checks. Sometimes politicians who dislike legislation will try to put poison pills in it, either to kill it or lead to negative consequences. Story from HS polo sci teacher was that a big federal civil rights law included gender as a protects category because the Senator (from Virginia) thought that would kill the bill.

    It seems to me that from maybe 1942 to the early eighties or thereabouts Americans were very willing to obey the spirit of the law. There were big exceptions, like segregated schooling in Boston and the South, but when the government made laws, people tended to accept them as ethics as well as things the government would punish you for if they caught you and you did not have pull.

    The progressives (they were called liberals then) killed that. Turns out, they thought laws were things BadWhites had to obey. I remember a guest lecturer at Reed College talking about ways Michigan(?) colleges were still going to be discriminating against (male and conservative whites. The left has prevented enforcement of immigration laws for decades. Pretty much every Hispanic you see (Puerto Ricans excepted) you see is either an illegal or descended from them, and thus not a citizen under a properly interpreted 14th amendment. Not following immigration laws stepped up under Trump. Ignoring federal marijuana laws (it should be as legal as alcohol) started with Obama, right?

    As a matter of lived reality, prosecutorial and the freedom cops have in enforcing laws unequally really does mean that the executive branch permanent government determine which laws apply to whom. Blacks and Mexicans et al people seem to me to have a legitimate complaint that marijuana laws are differentially enforced. Don’t get me wrong, I think blacks should live under some different laws. Guns should not be legal for blacks. Different transfer functions mean the nominally equal right to own guns is a much different output from the input. Laws should protect blacks from their tendency to borrow too much money.

    This leads me to the meat of my comment. Black men have better life outcomes like lower death rate, less substance abuse, higher employment rate, and several other things, in prison than free, perhaps we should offer a non-punishment version of prison for blacks. For one thing, let them have women. Give them reasonable birth control so the problem does not get bigger in coming generations. Could that system work? Could well-managed blacks produce more than it cost to maintain them. It seems to me that blacks’ situation is untenable if they remain a net negative in accounting terms. In economic terms, the benefit of replacing the black population with whites would be astronomical. The opportunity cost of blacks is huge.

    Charles Murray talked about something similar in The Bell Curve, the custodial state. The modern world is too hard for people with sub-85 IQ. It is probably too hard well above that. Wikipedia gives a little synopsis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve#Policy_recommendations

    …increasing welfare will create a “custodial state” in “a high-tech and more lavish version of the Indian reservation for some substantial minority of the nation’s population.” They also predict increasing totalitarianism: “It is difficult to imagine the United States preserving its heritage of individualism, equal rights before the law, free people running their own lives, once it is accepted that a significant part of the population must be made permanent wards of the states.”[6]

    I know that reservations or prison-lite seems out there, but what are our real options? If we ‘face reality’ (I really cannot wait for the book) we cannot live with them as equals in a free society very well. The left’s black worship may turn on dime. Many Jews are nervous about philosemites, thinking that philosemites think the same things antisemites believe. The philosemites just thinks those things are good. Progressives know all the ‘stereotypes’ about blacks and others. As someone here pointed out, progressives, when pressed, can give the same rank ordering of populations that psychometry has found. They go into foaming at the mouth rage when you ask them what an alternate reality would be like if Altmerica’s blacks were genetically dumber. Like, would that world be much different than ours?

    The naturalistic fallacy is a fallacy. Science cannot tell you what you should do. Science tells you what is possible. Human evolutionary history (which is what hbd really is) plus a hypothetical actual social science of sociology, where the stuff in sociologists heads is actually true, and they make accurate qualitative, or even quantitative predictions about the future.

    Maybe call sociology that is true eusociology? Anyway, the eusociologist would have predicted that when segregation was outlawed, dumber, more aggressive blacks would prey on their soft, kind white neighbors. Whites who make more money because of higher intelligence, stronger family structure, etc , would move to places where blacks could not manage (expense, cars…) to live.

    The eusociologist would predict that the current push to put a black in every pot, actually, a critical mass of blacks in every pot will cause serious harm to every organization that falls for it. Also cause serious harm to people who rely on those organizations. There will be lots of opportunities for new companies, scientific journals, and colleges, to name just three, to eat the big boys’ lunch as blacks in charge makes the organizations falter. Pretty much guaranteed. The time to buy exurban real estate might have passed. But I do not think liberals (especially Jews) have any idea how badly things will go.

    The Time magazine link

    https://time.com/4482150/ban-the-box-unintended-discrimination/

    • Replies: @Elli
  91. @SafeNow

    The report cost around $200.

    So, the same price as hiring Jim Rockford after all, for a day … counting his time getting chased down a mountain road near Tehachapi on the way back from the courthouse…

    • LOL: Kylie
  92. @Macumazahn

    As if the COVID economic damage and eviction bans hadn’t done enough of that already.

    But I agree with you. Steve asks, “I wonder what the New Jersey Apartment Tenant Association thinks about manslaughterers moving in down the hall?”, but I wonder what the 200,000 dues-paying members of the New Jersey Apartment Association think about their executive director cucking on this.

  93. @vhrm

    On this topic I’m more in favor of the law than against it; or at the very least i think there has to be a solution to the issue of what happens after one gets out of jail.

    I don’t see why landlords and their current tenants should be stuck with the resultant risks.

    Maybe we can park some released felon in one of your rooms if you think the “issue” has to be addressed at someone’s off-budget cost.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  94. @UNIT472

    This really isn’t that bad a law given the exceptions.

    Steve didn’t quote any exceptions. What do you know that we don’t?

  95. Off Topic, but Lion of the Blogosphere tweeted recently that new research shows that there is a correlation between intelligence and baseline pupil size. As he points out, Asians have been measured as having larger pupils than Whites, who in turn have been measured as having larger pupils than blacks.

    Given that pupil dilation has long been used in lie detection, it makes sense that larger pupils would be a sign of cognitive processing ability. The racial angle will obviously be left unexplored in the mainstream media though.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/pupil-size-is-a-marker-of-intelligence/

    • Thanks: Dieter Kief
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  96. Dumbo says:

    This is kinda stupid. If you are renting your property to someone else, it’s important to check the person’s background, and not just because of the possibility that they may default. If you don’t find it by the regular way, you should find it some other ways.

    But governments increasingly see tenants as “victims” and small landlords as “greedy” (but not banks or the big corporate renters who own lots of property) and create things like rent control, impossibility of eviction, and lots of other laws that makes it being a small landlord very difficult (especially in California).

    If the government wants to give housing to felons, welfare cases, crazy people, etc, then they should do it directly as some kind of public housing, not trying to force landlords to rent their property to the worst elements possible and “see how it goes”.

    I wouldn’t rent my property to a former drug dealer convicted of manslaughter, it’s just too risky. Let others deal with that risk.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Buffalo Joe
    , @Anonymous
  97. Rob says:

    From wikipedia article on The Bell Curve:

    Herrnstein and Murray offer a pessimistic portrait of America’s future. They predict that a cognitive elite will further isolate itself from the rest of society, while the quality of life deteriorates for those at the bottom of the cognitive scale. As an antidote to this prognosis, they offer a vision of society where differences in ability are recognized and everybody can have a valued place, stressing the role of local communities and clear moral rules that apply to everybody.[1]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve#Living_Together

    Bell Curve came out in ‘94. In the 27 subsequent years, I would say that prediction has to be graded at least an A-.

    One aspect that I am not sure TBC mentioned is the capitalist over class breeding themselves to be taller, smarter, and blonder. There are very pretty, very bright girls at Ivies willing to marry into money. I would like to know if gender-egalitarian philosophy has reached the overclass to the extent that a significant number of very rich women (meaning mostly heiresses) marry ‘down’ rather than never marrying at all if they could not land a man of the proper class. Do rich women of middling looks marry very handsome, athletic, and smart men? Do they get sperm donors? Is thst sort of thing just not done?

    I would love if someone would do a newer version of an ethnological (means study of animal behavior along the lines of Richard Conniff’s The Natural History of the Rich. Available on both lye berry gen Isis and bee, okay?

  98. @UNIT472

    Naturally, it’s counter intuitive to wonder whether it’s better to have convicted felons homeless on the streets or at least housed…. ? Homeless felons have great social utility…….
    The underlying assumption (for some commentators) is that convicted criminals need be punished for the rest of their lives & that given that black people are statistically, on a per capita basis, more liable to crime, then it’s logical to target black felons….
    Obviously, L-lords have a right to some info’ on their potential renters but that does not give them the right to “look up the arse of every hopeful renter to see if their hats are on straight”.

  99. TBF, many applications have been going beyond felonies and asking about misdemeanors. This is a new thing in America and it needs to be reined in. But I still don’t want convicted felons living next to me.

  100. Gee, I wonder what will happen to this law once the “pandemic” eviction moratorium drives all the small landlords out of business and all the rental properties are bought up at firesale prices by BlackStone and other private equity investors. They’re even more allergic to liability suits than the small guys. Knowing Congress, they’ll probably get exemption from liability, à la Big Pharma and vaxxes, to ensure rental properties are available to all … in the public interest.

    In 2030 you will own nothing, rent everything, and you will be happy … or else!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  101. @guest

    that’s because they’re Aryans.

  102. @Hangnail Hans

    Funny, though it would be funnier …

    Yes, the MediocreFilms.com watermark serves as a subtle caveat

  103. @Anon

    I’ve observed that people often weaken or even ruin arguments by adding to the recitation of facts an overwrought negative evaluation of the people involved. It can be more persuasive to leave the evaluation up to the audience. A mildly famous example is Lillian Ross’s 1950 interview with Hemingway in the New Yorker. With nary an authorial evaluation, only pure reportage, she shows that Hemingway was a drunk, a snob, a genius, an egomaniac, a drunk, likeable, unlikable, boorishly repetitive, and quite definitely a washed up alcoholic in decline. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1950/05/13/how-do-you-like-it-now-gentlemen

  104. Art Deco says:
    @usNthem

    Yeah, a negro criminal turns its life around – and the odds of that are…..infinitesimal – beyond a few weeks or months.

    The median age of the adult prison population is 36 years. Include the juvenile prison population, you can shave a couple of years off that. About 1/3 of the adult male population is over 55, but only 10% of the adult prison population is over that age. (Note, about 60% of all those convicted in a given year are not remanded to state prison and a certain segment of the criminal population never does any prison time). It’s quite normal for hoodlums to get tired of it as they grow older.

    • Disagree: Rich
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  105. Art Deco says:

    What all anti-discrimination law means brass tacks is lawyers second-guessing everyone’s discretionary decisions, which in turn derives from the credentialed population’s contempt for everyone else’s judgment. Note the one area where anti-discrimination ordinances are properly applied is in public employment and admission to public colleges, venues where if anything impartial procedures are less common than they are elsewhere.

    • Agree: Desiderius, gandydancer
  106. @Anonymous

    NYC has a similar rule with new apartments, and the section 8ers were complaining because they weren’t allowed to enter the building thru the main lobby or use the amenities like the pool or common areas that the residents who paid a million+ to live in the building had access to.

  107. @Anon

    They started taking advantage of the law to discriminate against whites, which was not the original intention of those laws.

    Could you tell the moment when the original intention of the law disappeared or got obfuscated? And/ or a juridical (or sociological?) reason why this could happen?

    • Replies: @SFG
    , @Alden
  108. @onetwothree

    NYC has a similar rule with new apartments, and the section 8ers were complaining because they weren’t allowed to enter the building thru the main lobby or use the amenities like the pool or common areas that the residents who paid a million+ to live in the building had access to.

  109. Only plebs will suffer. Manslaughtering former drug dealers can’t pay condominium prices; and safe working class communities are white supremacy, no matter the colour of the skin of its members.

  110. SFG says:
    @Dieter Kief

    My understanding is it’s the ‘disparate impact’ ruling, which from what I can tell (not a lawyer!) started with Griggs v Duke Power Co. in 1971. That basically states that any disparity, even if by a neutral test, is illegal. Apparently you can justify it if it’s a business necessity (say carrying a pack of a certain weight for men and women), but as you can imagine progressives are chipping away at that one.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @Cloudbuster
  111. @Polistra

    “People should not be punished for the rest of their lives for something they did years ago,” he said.”

    Unless, of course, what they did years ago was say the wrong word or use the wrong hand gesture. Then no punishment is too strong.

    Killing someone while committing a crime, however? Pfft.

  112. Arclight says:

    As long as you can still require credit checks or previous landlord references, you have a couple of other ways to turn renters down that are likely to be problems. For my properties, it is required that you carry the utilities in your own name – it’s an easy way to screen out people with bad credit, which typically comes with other problems as well. To my knowledge, I don’t think we’ve ever seen an application with a criminal conviction above misdemeanor who has sterling credit.

    • Agree: Alden
  113. @SFG

    Thanks – so – the problem is not the law itself, but the way it was interpreted over time (chipped away at not least).
    My basic idea is: The law can’t heal big societal problems. If they are not taken care of on a multitude of societal levels, the whole affair is doomed, because the law itself in such cases can not be more than – a reminder, that there is a problem.

    I’m on the lookout for people who understand this basic constraint on the law (and the juridical system in general). Very few people did this. Peter Turchin is at it, when he says, that the juridical system can turn into overdrive, so to speak and then – like the immune system fighting the body instead of the disease – turn against society instead of serving it.

    One commenter (an expert, I guess) once here on iSteve made the remark, that constitutional law especially would be wildly overestimated, because it serves hardly any real purpose except being a place where high IQ people can be – stored, so to speak. Jürgen Habermas – sigh – did write a rather brilliant tome about this subject: Between Facts and Norms: Contributions to a Discourse Theory of Law and Democracy (1992).

    It is just so, that those books are time (and goodwill and energy) -consuming so that they usually don’t make a big difference. – The air is rather thin up there – and you don’t meet too many people either in those clouds and icy altitudes (Joni Mitchell). A few more could be quite helpful, I’d hold.

    • Replies: @SFG
  114. martin_2 says:

    Good grief I just watched a bit of one of the psychiatrist woman’s videos, and she is dreadfully plain. Big conk and huge lips. She looks like something out of a horror film. No wonder she is bitter and twisted.

  115. bomag says:
    @vhrm

    I wouldn’t weep for ex-cons. There are plenty of opportunities. They have friends, family, support networks, and a surprising amount of public help. People are generally quite charitable and willing to help/take a chance. Stories about someone trying to turn their life around but are thwarted by “the man” are mainly Narrative tear jerkers.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  116. George says:

    “higher racial ratios of imprisoning whites than blacks ”

    I think you meant “higher racial ratios of imprisoning BLACKs than WHITES ”

  117. George says:

    Is there common ground here? Couldn’t you keep track of the actual experience of property owners with the formerly incarcerated and publish that data? Maybe arrest history is meaningless after 6 years?

    Tax expert, who is Black, makes interesting arguments.

    Tax Expert Dorothy Brown: “The System Is Designed For White Wealth” | Amanpour and Company

    • Replies: @anon
    , @bomag
  118. @Alexander Turok

    The underlying problem is that it’s hard to evict people. If it were made easier, there wouldn’t be so much reluctance to rent to felons.

    You could say the same thing with hiring. If it were easier to fire people, companies would have less reluctance to hire them in the first place.

    That’s the way it works in Asia. Sure, we’ll let you try your hand at this job. If you’re good, we’ll keep you, if not, see you later. No problem.

  119. Jon says:
    @UNIT472

    an ex con who had a non violent felony conviction and can pay his rent is a ‘good tenant’ as far as most landlords are concerned

    If that were true, they wouldn’t need this law to find an apartment.

    • Replies: @bomag
  120. @SFG

    So we can assume the NBA will be turning 60% White any day now.

  121. @Art Deco

    A common theory, which seems plausible to me, is that once testosterone levels start to drop in the late 30s, then crime goes down.

    Hard though it is to believe, most prisoners do not want to go back to prison, and once men get to somewhere around middle age they don’t want to run with the same gang, having had plenty of opportunity to study the behavior of late adolescence while in prison.

    • Replies: @Alden
  122. The other lousy thing about New Jersey is that living near NYC serves no useful purpose anymore

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  123. Elli says:
    @Rob

    I think blacks should live under some different laws.

    People would rather rule themselves badly than be ruled well by others, unless they are actually going hungry as in Zimbabwe, and even then, that is the sentiment of the more passive downtrodden people, not those aggressive enough to be the new rulers and profit from it.

    The fantasy would be separate countries, and we would still have to send massive amounts of aid.

    That’s a fantasy, because for every 10 white babies born in this country, there are now roughly 3 black babies born and 7 Hispanic and Asian babies.

    A baby is a vote for the survival of your kind, and you can cast a lot of votes…if you want to. You might have to sacrifice to do so, but you can do so.

    The other kind of vote, where you actually oppose policies that offload the cost of having babies onto the productive taxpayer….is going to be harder and harder to achieve.

    • Replies: @Jon
    , @Anonymous
  124. Barnard says:
    @onetwothree

    You would be right. While I have sympathy for the landlord, mom and pop operators in general need to do a much better job of screening their tenants. Establish credit standards for rental and get a credit report of your applicants.

  125. @CARenter

    CARenter
    I suggest you move to Wake Forest NC
    I am also doing well and have a disabled son.It is safe here,a bounty of resources available for people with disabilities.

  126. And blacks cry about “white only”, sign’s were due to racism in the South. It’s wasn’t racism, ot was an understanding that blacks are problematic, and a desire not be bothered with their shucking and jiving. Why should a landlord want to deal with black dis function and the very real problems of property damage and being unable to collect their rent each month?

  127. Forbes says:
    @SafeNow

    Rockford’s car was a ’78 Firebird…

  128. Corvinus says:

    So, iSteve, to what extent or under what circumstances should people continue to be punished for the rest of their lives for something they did years ago?

    • Replies: @AceDeuce
    , @res
  129. AceDeuce says:
    @Corvinus

    Define “punishment”.

    (You already do a good job (self-) defining “birdbrain.”)

    • Agree: gandydancer
  130. res says:
    @Goorin

    Thanks for all of that data and your additional analysis (I assume your numbers came from adding the values in the separate jails and prisons graphics).

    Anyone interested in this should check out the source of your links. Here is a link to one of their data maps (you can view by race using Select Data).
    https://trends.vera.org/incarceration-rates?data=localJail
    (I find their color scheme a bit nonintuitive, be sure to look at the legend)

    The page has additional useful links like to their data on GitHub.
    https://github.com/vera-institute/incarceration-trends

    Their data is county level and they supply a codebook. I think it would be useful to generate state (and maybe county) level numbers like you gave but for every state and race (plus add for all, not just 15-64). I downloaded the data and took a quick look, but I am not sure how hard this would be to do and might not have enough time. I wish they had included state aggregated data as well. I think converting the per-county rate numbers into state wide averages will be nontrivial (and they did the work already for the PDFs you referenced). Plus, the state based file would be much smaller than the 42 MB of the county based file.

  131. Alden says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Many men violent criminals do simmer down between 45 and 50. Many do not. And not all criminals are violent street blacks. Carjackers are usually violent young black men barely able to drive a stick shift if the car has one.

    But behind the carjackers is an entire system of mechanics, sellers and buyers of the stolen cars. The corrupt DMV clerks that transfer title are mostly Hispanic women who are respectable government clerks by day and hoochie mamma gangsters by night. Coastal cities are hubs that send the mostly luxury cars overseas. In Europe there’s a whole stolen car route down through the Balkans Greece Turkey then Iraq Syria south and west.

    Forgery, fraud gambler shy locks semi white collar criminals don’t stop till normal retirement age. Those criminals who stole so much covid relief funds by getting the unemployment benefits although they hadn’t worked in years or were still working didn’t do it without help from en entire network of corrupt government clerks.

    Prison gives black retard types everything they need shelter food clothes medical care sex drugs alcohol and infinite leisure time to watch TV, gossip and intrigue.

  132. res says:
    @Rob McX

    So, forbidden from finding out if he’s been in prison, a landlord will be 12 times as likely to refuse to rent to a black.

    That would be the expected response, but I don’t know how other anti-discrimination laws would factor in then.

  133. Alden says:
    @Anon

    The original intention was to discriminate against Whites and everyone knew it. My husband his brother and father knew it in the summer of 1968. I remember some conversations we had about it. They were particularly concerned. I remember saying who cares, who wants to work for the Post Office. 5 years later, entire city county state and federal agencies just stopped hiring Whites. Libertarians and Econ 101 types sneer at government jobs. But for the middle class, they’re about the only well paid, secure jobs left. I remember at one point the nationwide social security administration was a whooping 63 percent black women.

    Because the family company could not function without employees capable of B average in all the academic high school math, passing a raven matrix type entrance exam, mechanical ability hard work ethic and being able to read and understand the building code for their own trade. And not being liable if a black employee raped a customer. Which did happen a couple years later. Luckily she never sued us.

  134. J.Ross says:
    @vhrm

    You are well-intentioned but confused. The Hate Registry isn’t a joke of a temporary or skipped prison sentence, it’s a permanent caste identity. Our legal system was deeply dysfunctional before and now is just lunacy. In a better, more homogeneous situation, your reasoning makes sense.

  135. res says:
    @Corvinus

    That’s a good question, Corvinus. Though perhaps it would be better for you to answer it yourself first. It is rather rude to demand an answer to a question like that from someone else otherwise. How about we start with your opinion of the Brett Kavanaugh cancel culture lynch mob?

    • Thanks: photondancer
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  136. @Rob McX

    She just mad she can’t bag the white guy she obviously needs.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  137. SFG says:
    @Dieter Kief

    More smart people would make things better? I’m less convinced of that than I was 20 years ago. I mean, if that were the case Israel would rule…uh, let me think about that again. (OK, they don’t rule, but they punch way above their weight class.)

    But basically, I agree with your central point. Practically speaking, I think the thing is you can make any law you want, whereas IRL you run into resource constraints and physical reality. You can legislate a pony for every child, but someone has to raise the ponies, transport them to the children’s homes, keep them from filling the streets with horse poop, feed the ponies afterward, grow the food to feed the ponies, transport the food to the ponies, get the extra horse poop out of the child’s house, deal with runaway ponies kicking people on the street, etc.

    Increasingly, I just take the pessimistic view that societies rise and fall like organisms, and after a certain point there’s only so much you can do. Train your kids to shoot, preserve what’s worth preserving, and adapt to circumstances.

    • Agree: gandydancer
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Dieter Kief
  138. @Polistra

    And some people wonder why psychiatrists are distrusted.

    Isn’t it kind of known that almost all shrinks are headcases that enter the field to solve their own issues?

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman, 3g4me
    • Replies: @gandydancer
  139. Corvinus says:
    @Polistra

    “If I’m renting a house or running a business, I should have the right to decide whom I want as a tenant or an employee”

    You do have that liberty. It’s just that your right to do so falls under this particular law or that
    particular law, as created by the will of the people. What you are seemingly advocating for is for absolute rights, which is not part of our social contract.

    • Troll: Desiderius
    • Replies: @res
    , @anon
    , @gandydancer
  140. @UNIT472

    INIT, conjecture on my part, but stay tuned for the next phase which will be “No Evictions.” Laws to that effect have already been proposed. And, yes a tenant who pays their rent and causes no problems is a good tenant.

  141. J.Ross says:
    @Polistra

    She is the most violent example of Sailer’s Law of Female Journalism yet.

  142. J.Ross says:
    @gutta percha

    Because that would shock even the TV watchers into asking, wait, why are there so many, why are we letting them out, why isn’t there a more final and reliable penalty for murder?

  143. Anonymous[160] • Disclaimer says:
    @SafeNow

    They have special computer databases. It’s not like the old days when Jim Rockford had to get into his Camaro and drive down to the courthouse and hall of records. Also, investigators are pretty good at piercing through an alias.

    No, it’s not that easy. I worked in this field up till a few years ago. I’ve done investigations with a federal badge/creds and I’ve done investigations as a private contract investigator.

    Even with the badge/creds (and FBI/NCIC/Interpol… database checks) it would require going to police departments to either do a check for an arrest or get an arrest report. First you need to establish where the person (Subject) lived and worked and check those PDs. You’d be amazed at what doesn’t show up nationwide or statewide database checks. After finding an arrest record we’d go to the corresponding court for disposition. More than a few times a court record couldn’t be found (this was often in older cases). The aliases/AKAs issue is a bigger problem than you suggest (especially with foreigners).

    The private companies who sell criminal records can only obtain information through public databases and docket reports. If you go to courthouse clerk’s offices you’ll see some guy/gal with a notebook and laptop (in non-federal court) copying down info off the daily docket. This is this extent of the info you get from a private company.

    Rockford had a police source to get info as many PI’s did years ago (e.g., Anthony Pellicano). Forget about that kind of thing today. Checking someone’s background out today— I mean really checking them out— still requires travel, gumshoe work, and social engineering. Can’t be done from home/office on a computer.

    • Thanks: Desiderius, bomag
    • Replies: @Alden
  144. @SFG

    What’s pessimistic about that? Life is a miracle. Organisms are the temporal embodiment of life. I guarantee you’ll like what tries to replace them less.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  145. Bathetic, not pathetic. Their overweening fear of pathos (apathy) is how they got into this mess. And just because they’re weak it doesn’t follow that people aren’t out to get them. The one follows naturally from the other.

    All that Big man LARPing at soup kitchens and equity programs. Not enough paying the cost to be the boss.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @J.Ross
  146. Achilleus says:

    If we adopted the widespread use of capital punishment similar to 17th-19th Century Britain, where very low-value thefts, setting fires, willful property damage, and over 200 other crimes, violent and non-violent were punished by hanging, we wouldn’t have to worry too much about what to do with ex-cons, because there wouldn’t be many.

    The streets would be safer, we wouldn’t have to pay for lifelong care of “career” criminals and life sentence cases, and over time it might reduce the portion of the population inclined to criminality.

    At the very least, we should execute all violent criminals. By pointing a gun or a knife at a clerk and demanding cash, you are demonstrating that other people’s lives are worth less to you than the contents of a liquor store register. You shouldn’t be permitted to walk among us or receive long term benefits from the people you would kill for small change.

    I believe I heard Ed Dutton and Michael Woodley argue that Britain’s harsh and final punishments over time contributed to its 19th century successes, by eliminating low IQ, low impulse control, anti-social, violent men (mostly) from the gene pool.

    Our view of criminal “rehabilitation” rooted in Christianity, Whig Progressivism, and an Enlightenment preference for the individual over the community has not produced the benefits hoped for. I think that we’ll soon find that criminal behaviors are largely genetic and programs of reform are a waste of resources and a danger to the law-abiding.

    This New Jersey law should have never even come up because there shouldn’t be a bunch of ex-cons walking our streets looking for apartments.

    • Agree: 3g4me, gandydancer
  147. @res

    I cannot answer for Corvinus, and this seems like whataboutery, but for what it is worth the attacks on Justice Kavanaugh were disgusting.

    So a middle-aged married man with a long career of public service is charged with some drunken teenage groping by a flaky woman acting out Fear of Flying whom he may never even have met, whose memoirs of teenage drinking and groping after lunch at the country club are hazy, not to say foggy at best.

    What was most disgraceful was that the Senate allowed this charade to take place at all. How will you get anybody to accept any kind of public service position if this is how the job interview proceeds with applicants being publicly smeared?

    However both parties subscribe to this kind of thing, not always in Senate hearings, but also in political TV commercials.

    We all know that many governors, legislators, and judges are crooks and deviants, but what matters is whether they know how to do the job, not to whether they leave semen stains on dresses, make off color jokes about pubic hairs, or grab women by the privates.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @gandydancer
  148. Achilleus says:
    @Abolish_public_education

    The issue of the large number of folks in US jails aside, violent criminals should be locked up for the full length of their sentences, rather than paroled at 50%. That would reduce the number of applicants for apartments.

    Ah, so we should all pay for long term housing, feeding, and medical care of those who would rob, assault, murder and rape us?

    Violent criminals should be hanged.

    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    , @gandydancer
  149. J1234 says:

    Living in a Lousy Apartment Building in New Jersey Just Got Worse

    Rental applications in New Jersey will no longer ask about criminal convictions, and landlords’ use of background checks will be limited.

    The bar for functioning as a dysfunctional black person just got lower.

  150. “People should not be punished for the rest of their lives for something they did years ago,” he said.

    This only applies to precious orcs, White Man. The questionable quote you wrote in a high school yearbook 50 years ago warrants your execution today.

  151. @Jonathan Mason

    Get people who didn’t blow their primes at Nationals games so know how to handle themselves.

    His shitting his pants in the hearings (see TV interview) was a preview of his shitting his pants on the election cases. Ds chose to make attax maximally disgusting to get Cons to tie themselves to this albatross instead of a nominee who would be a real threat.

    Worked like a charm.

  152. @Goorin

    So liberal MN and NJ lock up 8 or 9 per-capita blacks for every per-capita white they lock up, while red state AL only locks up about 2.5 per-capita blacks for every per-capita white they lock up.

    Soundbite verdict: blue states are three and a half times more racist than red states.

    Reality: probably some of the soundbite, plus the MN and NJ whites are more docile than AL whites. Sailer likes to start these things at half-and-half until more evidence emerges.

  153. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:

    Landlords, for example, may consider first-degree crimes for six years after release from prison when deciding on applicants. But fourth-degree crimes may only be used as a factor for either a year after a person’s release from custody or, if they are not sentenced to jail or prison time, the date of conviction.

    How would anyone know that a landlord had used criminal information in a decision?

    • Replies: @Yancey Ward
  154. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius

    Bathetic, not pathetic. Their overweening fear of pathos (apathy) is how they got into this mess.

    What does it even mean to fear pathos?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  155. @Anon

    Aruna Khilanani and Bari Weiss, despite disparate origins, occupy the same position and display the same attitudes towards untouchable/gentile Americans.

  156. 3g4me says:
    @usNthem

    @9 usNthem: You no longer have a country. It was killed off decades ago. You are now a resident of Numerica, built by and for the POX. You live here at their sufferance, and you will pay . . . and pay . . .

  157. 3g4me says:
    @anon

    @28 anon[421]: She’s very obviously not White, and that’s the root of her problem. She’s seething with envy and jealousy and resentment. She’s not as dark as a sub-Saharan, but neither is she even the purported ‘wheatish’ shade so many subcons claim to be. She needs to go home and live amongst her own, where her non-European physiognomy would attract no notice nor engender any angst for her fragile non-White psyche.

  158. @res

    One subtlety which I think makes the Berkeley measure a good bit more acceptable.

    The ordinance will not apply to permitted accessory dwelling units, single-family homes, duplexes and triplexes.

    It’s hard to see how it could be enforced against small landlords anyhow. How can the State know if there was a private conversation between two private parties wherein the past of another private party was discussed? Indeed, the whole thing seems awfully close to a First Amendment violation: the state preemptively tells citizens what they cannot discuss in private conversation? I know, I know, the fake and ghey “Civil Rights” constitution will take precedence over the real Constitution, probably under the guise of “public accommodation” sophistry, so I have no illusions but that these flagrantly tyrannical laws will become more furniture on the sinking hulk of this former nation.

  159. 3g4me says:
    @vhrm

    @16 vhrm: As a subcon, you obviously need have no fear of the Hate Registry. Your genetics and color will ensure you a spot determining which White rayciss get sent to the camps. Which is why you’re here in an historic White nation, of course, and not back where your ancestors lived for thousands of years.

    • Replies: @Moses
    , @vhrm
  160. Possumman says:
    @Rob McX

    Red Flag law candidate.

  161. @vhrm

    Didn’t they stakeout a newspaper stand in New York for purchasers of The Chicago Tribune in order to try to nab a blackmailer trying to take advantage of tainted Tylenol capsules?

    A high tech adaption of something that occurred decades ago.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    , @Hangnail Hans
  162. @Anonymous

    Denying the lease will be all the evidence of guilt required. Surely, you know this?

  163. @Alden

    Klaus Iohannis, Transylvanian Saxon, President of Romania:

    He does not live in Germany, but he does have a house in Florida.

  164. Government hypocrisy is boundless; and dull.

    When the government wants information, there’s practically nothing it can’t ask for (or won’t do to get it).

    [MORE]

    When the [financial sponsor] of a kid signs him up for public school, it should be required for her to give the office clerk a copy of her previous year’s 1040. If her taxable income is greater than some standard of poverty (e.g. she doesn’t qualify for EIC), then the clerk should direct her down the hall to the cashier. Said sponsor should have to pay a user fee (tuition); $15,000 per kid, per year sounds about right.

    Traditionally, the “free” part of public education meant limited to free men, i.e. whites only.

  165. @Anonymous

    Fear of suffering. Usually out of lack of experience with it.

    Literally a-pathy.

    Version of fearing death.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  166. @Desiderius

    It’s not dark yet, but it’s getting there. (Bob Dylan)
    Unless some lazy bones will take philosophy more seriously – and religion and literature etc. (the arts).

    In the context discussed in this thread I’d – as I said above already – highly recommend Habermas theory of law and democracy: Between Facts and Norms. Contributions to a Discourse Theory of Law and Democracy. Quite telling in this context is also the Böckenförde-Dictum. A simple thought I have smuggled into my comment No. 99 above. The German literature about this thought of Böckenförde is impressive (I’d assume more than 10 000 pages). It boils down to an idea that Steve Sailer tackles for decades and that Robert Putnam pinned down in his famous essay E Pluribus Unum: That the law is dependent on social resources it has no command over. What the Christian law philosopher Böckenförde says is basically this: don’t overstretch the reach of the law (a thing that can be quite easily done).

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  167. Anonymous[138] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    Because the family company could not function without employees capable of B average in all the academic high school math, passing a raven matrix type entrance exam, mechanical ability hard work ethic and being able to read and understand the building code for their own trade.

    What does this mean in the context of the rest of your comment? “Because”? How does this explain anything?

  168. J.Ross says:
    @Desiderius

    Agree, I am still receiving messages (and hearing quotes in the headlines) about how Trump wants to get kicked in the balls over at Zuck’s house, while all Zuck’s houseguests laugh at him, and that the one complication in this brilliant plan is Trump angrily not understanding why Zuck won’t open the door.

  169. J.Ross says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    White guy hell, subcons must look at her and think Kali has returned to kill everyone.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
  170. Anonymous[138] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius

    Fear of suffering. Usually out of lack of experience with it.

    Literally a-pathy.

    Version of fearing death.

    Thank you. Can you give some examples of things this particular demographic (“they”) shies away from due to fear of suffering?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  171. anon[177] • Disclaimer says:
    @George

    Is there common ground here?

    Probably not.

    Couldn’t you keep track of the actual experience of property owners with the formerly incarcerated and publish that data?

    Sure. Then what would happen?

    Maybe arrest history is meaningless after 6 years?

    Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, maybe individuals differ on a case-by-case basis?
    Maybe you’re just bleating?

  172. block the box is a long time leftist campaign, akin to motor voter.

    i have to admit, the campaign against using DNA databases to catch criminals is something i didn’t see coming. but leftists will do anything to protect criminals.

    of course, you’ll still be allowed to use DNA data to get wrongly convicted people out of prison, as you should, but that’s a flagrantly offensive double standard.

  173. @Alden

    But for the middle class, they’re about the only well paid, secure jobs left

    Someone who receives a portion of government spending large enough to lead a middle class lifestyle is just a bigger tax leech than the poor slob who only qualifies for AFDC, EBT, etc.

    Often, he’s a welfare queen who holds a four-year college degree.

    A big reason why the private sector cannot seem to provide “good jobs” is because of too much government.

    • Replies: @ATBOTL
  174. Marty says:

    Right now in a SF upscale neighborhood, 40ish white women with a bullhorn are asking passersby to help recall the radical D.A. She says, “criminals think they’re cool.”

  175. Anonymous[377] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    DNA research has proven that the Saxons reduced the Briton population, with Scandinavians delivering the coup de grace. Nobody inhabited England 40,000 years ago, and the Western Steppe Herders eliminated the earliest pre-Indo European inhabitants.

  176. @Dieter Kief

    For some values of lazy, and then again lazy people make the world go round (by driving innovations in efficiency).

    It’s like people tell me students are lazy and I laugh – they’re not lazy about tapping that ass or getting that high score or whatever.

    All a matter of interest and understanding.

    Hard to stand under anything when you’re above it all (or at least ever sitting on the fence) or to develop any serious interests (or act in your own!) when your highest value is disinterestedness.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  177. @CARenter

    CARenter, years ago I had a father and son working for me on a big structural job. The father was a piece of work but the son was a good worker and respectful.I eventually fired the father and kept the son. Some one pointed out to me that the son was a convicted killer and it was a good thing I didn’t set him off. Could not believe it. Maybe three years later the kid killed again. Kid had a life and a job but he was a threat to society even though he blended in. Never know.

  178. @SFG

    More smart people would make things better? I’m less convinced of that than I was 20 years ago.

    More smart people devoting themselves to serious (and recently a bit underestimated) topics – my comment No. 168.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @anon
  179. Anon[342] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dumbo

    Government is hostile to landlords for being picky, because if landlords won’t rent, the ex-con tends to end up on welfare and Section 8, which the government has to pay for. Or the ex-con ends up homeless, which becomes the government’s problem to fix, as ordinary libs become screechy and complaining when too many homeless pile up on the streets.

    Governments these days are filled with earnest liberals who don’t like being shown to be hopeless at solving society’s problems, so they keep trying to shove society’s garbage people off on the private sector where they are no longer the government’s problem.

    Government liberals are going to be a lot more vicious about this because they don’t have much cash anymore to pay to support society’s garbage people. They don’t want to pay for housing for ex-cons because liberal pols expect to get generous donations from the teachers who, in turn, get nice pay and benefits from those liberal pols, and that uses up the budget. The ex-cons aren’t so generous with donations, so the liberal politicians are annoyed with having to do anything for them.

    If landlords want to avoid getting stuck with this law, they need to get another law on the ballot for a public vote that counteracts it. They’d get the vote of every renter who doesn’t want hardcore criminals moving in next door to them. They’d get the vote of every homeowner who has a house near a rental complex.

    Conservatives need to wage ballot lawfare fighting every inch of the way against these stupid libtard government fiats that make life awful for decent, middle-class people.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Hangnail Hans
  180. @Dumbo

    Dumbo, one of my favorite Disney movies, my kids and I watched dozens of times but now racist…anyhow our government loves to give housing and food and medical care away to whomever. Check our southern border.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  181. From the article…”after a person does their time.” Well do any criminals actually ‘do their time?’ Time off for class room study and good behavior. I always though “Life in prison without the chance of parole” meant you were locked up forvever. Wrong. A governor can commute a sentence to time served. Former California Gov. jerry brown commuted the sentences of at least 8 murderes. Who knew?

  182. anon[130] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief

    “More smart people just like me” is a pretty common fantasy in some subgroups. It is a form of vanity at best.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  183. @Desiderius

    Sometimes you radiate hope, Desiderius. And sometimes you don’t. Other times, I don’t quuite get what you’re at.

    Hard to (…) develop any serious interests (or act in your own!) when your highest value is disinterestedness.

    My optimistic reading of your remark is: Yeah then, let it be hard! As long it is not impossible, it can be hard. – Why should it not be hard!?
    Now I think of Luther and the apple tree. I kinda have to when you write like you do here.
    It might boil down to faith and gelassenheit (Seuse) anyhow.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Reg Cæsar
  184. Svevlad says:

    Where I live, Serbia, criminal record access is strictly police only.

    Either that, or execute ’em all. See what’s more viable.

  185. @Rob McX

    At some point, the Woke Totalitarian State will just get on with it and legally require apartments to have 13% of their tenants be of the demographic of interest.

    • Agree: gandydancer
  186. Anon[266] • Disclaimer says:
    @vhrm

    I think a lot of religious text was thought up as a lever to guilt-manipulate people.

  187. New Jersey lawmakers approved a landmark bill that bars landlords from asking about criminal convictions on housing applications

    “Ban the box” doesn’t apply to this, though:

    Application for Firearms Purchaser Identification Card and/or Handgun Purchase Permit

    Why not simply require any prospective hireling or tenant to show a Handgun Purchase Permit? Since it’s the state itself that denies those, the employer or landlord should be in the clear.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  188. @Jonathan Mason

    Seriously that is a great idea.

  189. Rob McX says:
    @Joe Stalin

    They never did get the Tylenol guy. I suppose the case is officially still open.

  190. Anon[342] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rob McX

    The fundamental problem of people like her is that her parents came the U.S. and expected to rise to the top. A lot of foreigners are chasing utopia by trying to immigrate to the U.S. because it’s the most sparkly place on the planet to other people.

    But the reality is, the U.S. is the most Darwinian place on the planet. It’s way harder to make it here than anywhere else.

    Our coastal areas, where most foreigners want to go, are insanely expensive places to live. The failure rate of businesses applies to minorities too, not just whites. It’s been said that 95% of businesses fail within 5 years. That applies to immigrant business start-ups, too.

    There’s incredibly ferocious competition to get into our colleges, even state colleges, which didn’t exist in older generations, and colleges also are insanely expensive to pay for, which didn’t exist in older generations. It is not possible for a side job to pay enough to cover college anymore. Getting that credential to start a career is getting to be very tough. It is incredibly difficult for men who already have credentials to apply them here. Men who immigrate with a PhD can easily end up a cab driver. It’s very Darwinian.

    But most of all, the U.S. marriage market is the hardest place on the planet to get married. Only half the people in the U.S. get married and stay that way. This woman wants to bag a white guy, and she’s too ugly. In her native Pakistan, she would have gotten a husband through an arranged marriage, but she’s mad the white guys don’t want her because she looks like a horse. So she fantasizes about killing all the white guys who rejected her.

    A lot of immigrant trauma and complaints about the U.S. happen because of our extremely Darwinian marriage market. At least half of all immigrant men and women will never find a spouse or end up divorced here. That’s where a lot of their angst is coming from. They’re not used to anything like that back home. In poor countries around the planet, it’s EASY to get married. You’re all the same ethnicity, and the people around you on the same economic level, and traditional societies heavily push marriage. For the slow and inept, marriages are often arranged by your relatives.

    But in the U.S. you’re just thrown in the Darwinian deep pool, and you have to do a lot of swimming on your own to find a mate.

    Yes, the U.S. is the most Darwinian place on the planet. Most blacks can’t make it up the ladder at all. Most Hispanics are construction workers or maids or suchlike, and their descendants will stay working-class due to low IQ. Many middle-class whites are sliding down the ladder of success due to high education costs and housing costs.

    Most people who immigrate here will not climb higher than working class. This galls immigrants who think highly of themselves and their ability to make it. The U.S. proves them wrong, and isn’t sparkly at all to them. It crushes their egos, and they react with rage and blame whites for not handing them utopia.

  191. Carol says:
    @Anon

    I have to agree with her to the extent she says white woke are the worst, “antiracist overnight” after Floyd. Just the white posturing on Reddit alone was priceless. Now they’re all on to the next thing. Lol

  192. @Reg Cæsar

    Why not simply require any prospective hireling or tenant to show a Handgun Purchase Permit?

    Oh, but would a landlord be allowed to ask this question. I mean: It would be discriminating, wouldn’t it?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  193. @gutta percha

    Upon conviction of major crimes, immediate hanging. Lesser crimes:. Exile to the Yukon Valley in Alaska. Exile worked well for Tsarust Russia.

  194. res says:
    @Alden

    A lot worth thinking about in your comment, but this number seems implausibly high.

    I remember at one point the nationwide social security administration was a whooping 63 percent black women.

    This page has 2015 demographic information for SSA employees by grade.
    https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/supplement/2016/2f1-2f3.html

    Overall the employees are 29.3% black with the largest percentage being 37.8% for GS 5-8. I was most surprised to see 27.9% black in the SES (Senior Executive Service).

    • Replies: @Alden
  195. Anon7 says:

    OT: If you’re not on Twitter, you might have missed this tweet from Steve Sailer:

    Too bad Karl Popper didn’t live long enough to see this exemplification of his notion that the division between science and non-science is the possibility of falsification. Critical Race Theory is the quintessence of non-science since it’s designed to be unfalsifiable.

    If social science theories aren’t falsifiable, then they aren’t science.
    Of course, untestable propaganda can be useful for political or money-making purposes.

    Unfortunately, the author of the original tweet deleted it.

  196. res says:
    @Corvinus

    Did that word salad actually make sense? Are you aspiring to be as well respected as Tiny Duck here, Corvinus? (since you seem to be emulating some of his techniques) If so, you have a long way to go.

  197. Eagle Eye says:
    @Anon

    To her credit, Aruna does show a little self-awareness, but her analysis of causation is distinctly, uhm, non-Western.

    Ever since I was a little kid, since I’ve interacted with people who are white, and especially white women, I would notice that things were really off.

    Nobody who has seen or heard her would deny that things are “really off.” Somewhat cryptically, she also says:

    I don’t do med management, except like once every three months.

    Perhaps better and more frequent “med management” would help her and the world around her.

  198. Jon says:
    @Elli

    7 Hispanic and Asian babies.

    I feel like one of those groups is doing a lot of the work here.

  199. @Dieter Kief

    Include a fully-stocked gun closet on the property to be leased or sold. That way the state itself would require such discrimination. The feds as well.

    This is called “bundling”.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  200. @vhrm

    The idea that anyone “pays a debt” by inflicting on others the necessity of punishing uim for and/or disabling him from engaging in criminal activity is stupid beyond words.

    It’s not remotely an “explicit part” of any social contract I recognize as having been made with the State that I can’t by avoiding dealing with him “punish” anyone I want for anything he’s done or I think he might do that displeases me.

    If it’s “explicit” you ought to be able to quote it. Please do.

    • Replies: @vhrm
  201. Alden says:
    @Dieter Kief

    Whatever the original intent of the law was, the true meaning of the law was decided in Griggs vs Duke Power 1971. The satanic supremes in their wisdom decided that the Duke Power company requirement that all applicants for one of their jobs was to have finished 6th grade was discriminatory against retards. .

    Then along came Kaiser vs Weber 1979 in which the satanic supremes decided it was discriminatory for an applicant for steel mill foreman to have some experience, a high school diploma or GED and the ability to read and do a bit of basic elementary school arithmetic.

    You can read them online. Griggs was the most important. Kaiser just affirmed the Griggs decision. Griggs led to all sorts of nonsense; like 5 ft tall 100 pound Asian immigrant women firefighters with legs too short to reach the pedals of the fire engines.

    • Thanks: Dieter Kief
    • Replies: @gandydancer
  202. @Reg Cæsar

    Oh, that’s interesting, but is it practical too? – I could imagine a vibrant scene in a comedy around your idea. That might turn out to be fun! – But still, a bit discriminating, in the end (I see Richard Pryor in that scene now. – Makes me smile – a bright big smile on my face already! – Thanks for that! – Always look at the bright side of life…

  203. Alden says:
    @Art Deco

    Which means the 63 percent of federal employees who started in 1967 have been working 54 years . Even if they started very young, say 20 years old 63 percent must be 74 or older by now 2021.
    I live very near a big federal building. Mostly black women including the FBI clerks. And I’ve been to DC a few times. Might as well be in Africa 4;30 to 5 pm when the blacks pour out of those federal buildings.

  204. Alden says:
    @res

    That was decades ago before the feds began hiring Hispanics and Asians. There must be some Whites in N Dakota Maine Vermont but in the federal buildings in the big cities the feds are very black women.

    1968-1975, the beginning of affirmative action was about the time all the people hired in the 1940s big boom in federal employment were ready for retirement. Perfect timing to replace retiring Whites with blacks.

    • Replies: @res
  205. @anon

    Hhaha – ok anon. But my point is, to tackle certain subjects with more depths & verve – and not give in to the current dumbification of our public debates. – I would not want to give this point up even if I had to admit that yes: You do get in quite abstract heights on the path I hinted at here, at times…cf. my comments No. 168 et. al. (113).

  206. bomag says:
    @George

    Tax expert, who is Black, makes interesting arguments.

    I didn’t see any argument. You can choose to file jointly or separately. Seemed like a huge stretch just to say “racism”.

  207. @AndrewR

    I argue that terrifying-looking woman does an evidently unintended but valuable service for Whites. The Whites who don’t mind, or even applaud her elaborating on her fantasies of killing Whites are either evidently superfluous to the White population or actively despise their own race and want to destroy it (regardless of whether they exclude themselves or their close kind of the Whites they despise and intend to annihilate).

    Previously, self-hating White Americans walked relatively incognito among non-self-hating Whites, as it was still not acceptable to voice such self-hate loudly. It was not trivial to distinguish one from the other. Not anymore.

    Non-self-hating Whites, now armed with the knowledge of which Whites hate themselves and/or much of their own race or are passive pushovers about it, as well as with the increasingly strengthened fact that much of human behavior is at the very least influenced by genes, can act accordingly when choosing which Whites to associate with.

    It might be sad and even depressing for non-self-hating Whites to find out truly how much of their own race wants itself gone (perhaps except for their close kin, though like I said before this is of little importance). The fractions of Han Chinese, Arabs, Latin Americans, Black Africans, and even Jews who hate their own kind likely pale in comparison to the fraction of Whites who do. But if Whites as a race want to survive into the future, they’d be wise to be wary of the large proportion of self-hating Whites among themselves and at the minimum avoid them as much as possible.

    No sane individual of any race knowingly associates in any meaningful way with an individual or group of individuals who explicitly want the race the first individual belongs to gone and their members to suffer on their way out.

  208. bomag says:
    @Jon

    Trouble is, a proportion of ex-cons are not good tenants, making it a useful strategy to exclude them all if there are other renters available.

  209. @Anon

    Agreed. Often foreigners underrate the importance of soft skills , creative thinking versus cramming for a standardized test and earning a high score.

    Sometimes they don’t understand that their foreign licenses whether medicine , law , teaching , engineering may require them to take a US licensure exam , and it proves harder than they thought especially as a recent immigration with kids at home and a wife wondering why America is so hard and so different than the movies. The immigrants think that they will be living in a movie , but end up in a Darwinian environment with rules that differ from their home countries

  210. @Desiderius

    Ds chose to make attax maximally disgusting to get Cons to tie themselves to this albatross instead of a nominee who would be a real threat.

    Nah. They did the same with Clarence Thomas. And he’s been solid as a rock.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Desiderius
  211. @Jonathan Mason

    All released criminals should be picked up at the prison gate and taken immediately to special trailer parks in the Aleutian islands that concentrate on providing Spartan accommodation for ex-cons where they will be supervised by Nazi lesbian probation officers and take cold seawater showers.

    Why this is a bad way of dealing with people who murdered other people in “drug deals gone bad” eludes me. Moving the Nazi lesbians remote locations would be a plus, too.

    • Agree: Jay Fink
  212. duncsbaby says:

    Cop doing his job in Minnesota convicted of 1st, 2nd & 3rd degree murder & will never see the light of day, but dude who just happened to make an honest mistake by shooting dead a fellow druggie has trouble finding an apartment in New Jersey and we must be made to care.

    • Agree: Sick 'n Tired
  213. @vhrm

    They called us paranoid for saying things like this would happen one day.

  214. @Joe Stalin

    Getting the identities of people who read a specific article is way more specific (and intrusive) than that.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  215. @Anon

    Government is hostile to landlords for being picky, because if landlords won’t rent, the ex-con tends to end up on welfare and Section 8, which the government has to pay for.

    LOL. Ever heard of OPM? How do you even think we got in this mess? The more who are dependent on government, the better it is for ‘liberals’.

    Government liberals are going to be a lot more vicious about this because they don’t have much cash anymore to pay to support society’s garbage people.

    Ever heard of money printing? ‘Cash’ LOL.

  216. Swamp Fox says: • Website

    Remember, in New Jersey there are two ways to do things: the right way or the Rahway!

  217. Lurker says:
    @Anon

    The fundamental problem of people like her is that her parents came the U.S. and expected to rise to the top

    Worse, I think they expect to arrive and be at the top. That whole rising thing? That’s for losers.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  218. @Dieter Kief

    Libertarianism wrought absurdly large is how we got in this mess. Disinterestedness as a philosophy of life is a closely related category error with similar results.

    See the unrule of King John Roberts. Nonjudgmentalism cum nihilism.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  219. @Lurker

    There is no rising in Caste Systems or more to the point no falling. She’s here because she was carefully brought.

  220. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    That’s because they’re snobs and bigots who don’t understand his upbringing. And he’s a former Marxist so that threw them off. He’s also kind of a dork so hasn’t had the influence great jurists of the past have. There’s still a fool’s hope he will yet.

  221. Hibernian says:
    @Elli

    Mrs. Murphy doesn’t have that much effect on interstate commerce.

  222. Anonymous[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @al gore rhythms

    Given that pupil dilation has long been used in lie detection, it makes sense that larger pupils would be a sign of cognitive processing ability.

    Could you explain the connection? I don’t understand what you mean by that.

    • Replies: @al gore rhythms
  223. Anonymous[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dumbo

    I wouldn’t rent my property to a former drug dealer convicted of manslaughter, it’s just too risky. Let others deal with that risk.

    No one will want to rent to them. That’s the problem. You can’t just force them to be homeless.

    • Replies: @Yancey Ward
    , @AceDeuce
  224. Jay Fink says:
    @Achilleus

    I like the idea of castrating violent criminals. Losing the testosterone should tame them and make them less prone to crime. Plus they will be unable to reproduce and pass on their low impulse criminal genetics.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @J.Ross
  225. Anonymous[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @Elli

    A baby is a vote for the survival of your kind, and you can cast a lot of votes…if you want to. You might have to sacrifice to do so, but you can do so.

    How? It isn’t easy to do. And I am not referring to making sacrifices for the sake of one’s children. I am referring to having children in the first place.

  226. Anonymous[333] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius

    Get people who didn’t blow their primes at Nationals games so know how to handle themselves.

    Who blew their primes at Nationals games?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  227. @Anonymous

    Bullsh*t. There are always people who will rent to them regardless of the record of the tenant.

  228. @Dieter Kief

    Sometimes you radiate hope, Desiderius.

    Other times, I don’t quuite get what you’re at.

    And I can never remember which vowel is doubled in “Quuaaluudees”. But I know they’re legal in Canada and Mexico but not in the US. How about in the EU?

    By the way, Covid isn’t the only strange new disease gripping the world:

    Mysterious Brain Syndrome Grips Canada

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  229. @Reg Cæsar

    Mysterious Brain Syndrome Grips Canada

    Might well bee (bssssbssss) the cellphone towers in Canaada (see?).
    It could well be, that in foggy times or at night, they also use them to send microdoses of quaaludes out to the Canadian people to break the rest of their free will. Scary. We’ll all be totally suppressed and dead soon!

    • Replies: @Prester John
  230. Moses says:
    @AndrewR

    We really do deserve to be genocided.

    It doesn’t help that a hostile alien minority controls all major American media with a constant drumbeat of “whites bad, non-whites good.”

    Same media that blows up George Floyd and turns him into a martyr.

    Same media minimizes routine Black atrocities, tricks Americans into thinking Whites commit majority of mass shootings when it’s >70% Blacks and Hispanics —-> http://mass-shootings.info/

    Control media, control minds. Disable will to fight or even knowledge there’s a problem.

    It ain’t a standup or fair fight.

    Ask your Rabbi. He knows.

  231. Moses says:
    @AndrewR

    We really do deserve to be genocided.

    It doesn’t help that a hostile alien minority controls all major American media with a constant drumbeat of “whites bad, non-whites good.”

    Same media that blows up George Floyd and turns him into a martyr.

    Same media minimizes routine Black atrocities, tricks Americans into thinking Whites commit majority of mass shootings when it’s >70% Blacks and Hispanics —-> http://mass-shootings.info/

    Control media, control minds. Disable will to fight or even knowledge there’s a problem.

    It ain’t a standup or fair fight.

    Ask your Rabbi. He knows.

  232. Moses says:
    @AndrewR

    We really do deserve to be genocided.

    It doesn’t help that a hostile alien minority controls all major American media with a constant drumbeat of “whites bad, non-whites good.”

    Same media that blows up George Floyd and turns him into a martyr.

    Same media minimizes routine Black atrocities, tricks Americans into thinking Whites commit majority of mass shootings when it’s >70% Blacks and Hispanics —-> http://mass-shootings.info/

    Control media, control minds. Disable White will to fight or even knowledge there’s a problem. Silence and maginalize White voices sounding the alarm.

    It ain’t a standup or fair fight.

    “We” lol. Ask your Rabbi. He knows.

    • LOL: AndrewR
    • Replies: @AndrewR
  233. @Desiderius

    You can with good reason look at the reign of King John Roberts as an endpoint of a deterioration. I get that.
    And I know, that my – structural/ formal contradiction to your – King-John-Roberts-thesis is (at least at first sight) not strong. Let me nevertheless express it: The metaphor of the endpoint*** is misleading here because societal developments are a continuum and thus structurally (=necesssarily) open to changes. – There might be little hope left, but there is not no hope left.

    ***I know that this is not your metaphor but just mine paraphrasing your thought, but you could accept it for the sake of my argument.

    PS
    King John Roberts showed President Trump the conservative nature of the word establishment. Since Trump – as Steve Sailer pointed out quite clearly and repeatedly – had no reflective/strategic but a rather rough (simply instrumental/on the go) approach to the juridical system and the law, he did not build a defense against such attacks from Barr and Roberts et. mult. al. and was caught cold, when the time for the establishment was ripe to fight back on him (who was – rightfully so – perceived as a disruptive force by them).

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  234. AceDeuce says:
    @Anonymous

    So the “solution” is to force people to take these lowlives in, no matter what?

  235. @Dieter Kief

    Hopeless? We’re fighting literally nothingness. I like my chances with Being.

    We sang this at my wedding:

    “Pardon for sin and a peace that endureth,
    Thine own dear presence to cheer and to guide;
    Strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow,
    Blessings all mine, with ten thousand beside!”

    The fool’s Hope is the hope of the man who finally knows himself, but more importantly his Maker.

  236. A mere 4-year look-back for felony murder. Message to drug dealers: Don’t cap a distributor or rival dealer more often than once per presidential administration.

  237. @Buffalo Joe

    Saw Dumbo again recently. Hadn’t realized how dark it was. Dark Times.

    Joe, they don’t give it to whomever. They don’t give it to those whose welfare is supposed to be their charge. It’s a double travesty, not merely singular.

  238. @Anonymous

    Distracted people like yourself, including one who was where he shouldn’t have been with deleterious consequences for those responsible.

    Happens.

  239. Moses says:
    @3g4me

    Brahmins and Asians in USA have gone full retard woke because it gives them a leg up in their competition with Whites for power and prime jobs (e.g. University presidents, CEOs…).

    Full retard, full-court-press Woke-ism is a two-fer for them — 1) they can lever outrageous anti-White rhetoric into career progression and/or fame, and 2) woke-ism kneecaps and removes White competition, puts elite Brahmins and Asians on the fast track.

    It’s a rational strategy that maximizes value for Brahmins and Asians the expense of American civil cohesion and White people.

    They take that deal gladly.

    Diversity is our greatest strength.

    Expect more. Much more.

  240. So you can’t run a criminal records check?
    Can you ask if the applicant minds if you run a criminal background check, while informing them that you can’t force them to allow you?
    Those that won’t let you disqualify themselves without you running the check.

  241. @Dieter Kief

    The ‘lude suggestion is no more absurd than any of the others given in that article. How ’bout the possibility that since the world is rapidly becoming engulfed in collective madness anyway, perhaps this stuff is a product of mass hysteria?

  242. J.Ross says:
    @Jay Fink

    Why on earth would we do this but not kill them?

  243. Neuday says:
    @Technite78

    Because there’s absolutely no predictive value in scrutinizing people’s past mistakes.

    C’mon, everyone important knows the goyim are fungible commodities and we haven’t we all heard from our investment brokers that past performance is no guarantee of future results, so why not have the rapist’s apartment next door to the waitress with 2 kids, or the apprentice mechanic and his girlfriend next to the recent meth dealer and his buddies? Such discrimination with you people!

  244. Dissident says:
    @Mike Tre

    The people who are forced to associate with the Penal-Americans are the ones who should be punished for the rest of their lives!

    Now, now.

    [MORE]

    We wouldn’t want to be gendering people like that willy-nilly, would we?

  245. @bomag

    I wouldn’t weep for ex-cons. There are plenty of opportunities. They have friends, family, support networks, and a surprising amount of public help.

    This is the point that people are missing. Even if you discriminate against people with records, they still have to live somewhere. Maybe homeless living on the street, or maybe living next door to you because they are staying with their sister, a la Leon from Curb Your Enthusiasm. The point is that as long as they are alive and out of prison, they have to live somewhere.

    • Replies: @AceDeuce
    , @gandydancer
  246. @Alden

    I remember at one point the nationwide social security administration was a whooping 63 percent black women

    I doubt the actual number is that high, but then again having been in the NJMVC offices multiple times in my life, I would say the vast majority of them were black women.

    In any event, government jobs for black women to join the middle class are merely a more socially acceptable form of welfare, sort of like retarded white people going on disability.

    • Replies: @Alden
  247. Anonymous[178] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    Well we know the conspiritards won’t notice as Trump did the eviction moratorium and he can do no wrong.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  248. Dissident says:

    Manslaughter? The New York Times still uses such a sexist term in 2021?

  249. @Anon

    Most people who immigrate here will not climb higher than working class. This galls immigrants who think highly of themselves and their ability to make it. The U.S. proves them wrong, and isn’t sparkly at all to them.

    I don’t think this is true. Most immigrants are happy to come if only to give their children the opportunity.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  250. Anonymous[333] • Disclaimer says:
    @ScarletNumber

    Most people who immigrate here will not climb higher than working class. This galls immigrants who think highly of themselves and their ability to make it. The U.S. proves them wrong, and isn’t sparkly at all to them.

    I don’t think this is true. Most immigrants are happy to come if only to give their children the opportunity.

    This is true about them being happy about the prospects for their children. It is also true that even if an immigrant remains working class, he or she will still make vastly more money in the United States than in their own countries.

  251. vhrm says:
    @3g4me

    “As a subcon, you…”

    You (i think ) made that assertion before. i’m at a loss as to why you’d think i am. Is it based on anything or is it a denunciation like calling someone a Nazi or Communist ?

    The US population is ~1.5% “subcons” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asian_Americans#Demographics ) the chances that a random person would be one are pretty low.

    Although i guess
    (or so perhaps it was in 1993 when that was published)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you%27re_a_dog

    • Replies: @3g4me
  252. vhrm says:
    @Anon

    Much of what you say is true, but, except possibly for the marriage stuff, i don’t see how it applies to this (rather loathsome) Dr. Aruna Khilanani

    She is US born (supposedly according to shady websites) and got her degrees at University of Chicago and is a practicing psychiatrist.

    That’s definitely a top 1% social standing sort of thing. Whatever her damage is, it has little to do with not getting credentials or having to drive a cab.

  253. @J.Ross

    subcons must look at her and think Kali has returned to kill everyone.

    Heh, I saw a fat 40-something subcon with his chestically-enhanced white blonde 20-something sugar baby while I was out trail running today.

  254. Alden says:
    @Mr Deeds

    Many many state governments including my own state California have deals with the largest retail and all state and local government employers to hire felons on parole right out of prison. Walgreens is one of the biggest employers of felons. Supermarkets employ a lot of them. Sometimes the state pays the employers a training fee and or tax exemptions to bribe them to hire felons. Others just lean on the corporations.

  255. Alden says:
    @ScarletNumber

    That figure comes from the late 1980s. The Whites hired before 1965-70 had retired and the Asian Hispanics etcs were not yet hired. So it was black black black for a while.

    That’s why I’m not all that anti immigration. My motto is anything is better than black. In S California it seems post office and bus drivers are the last of the black civil service holdouts. I can avoid the bus drivers but can’t afford the post office because I refuse to pay fed ex prices. I noticed they’ve been getting a lot more nasty and vicious since Hideous George Killed himself with fentanyl.

  256. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    There’s also the endless aliases they use every time they’re arrested. It’s complicated.

    Best thing is to have rents so high only successful White collar criminals can afford them. 750 credit score requirement cuts off all the deadbeats troublemakers and self employed feast and famine income types. A great thing for the manager to do is counsel tenants behind on their rent that it’s best to move out quickly as an eviction filing will rule out their finding another place to live forever. Even if they pay the rent in full the day after the eviction is filed.

  257. vhrm says:
    @gandydancer

    The idea that anyone “pays a debt” by inflicting on others the necessity of punishing uim for and/or disabling him from engaging in criminal activity is stupid beyond words.

    It’s a relatively well known idiom
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/debt%20to%20society

    It’s not remotely an “explicit part” of any social contract I recognize as having been made with the State that I can’t by avoiding dealing with him “punish” anyone I want for anything he’s done or I think he might do that displeases me.

    If it’s “explicit” you ought to be able to quote it. Please do.

    i’ve spent a couple of hours trying to figure out what angle to come at this from and it’s too large of a concept to tackle in any way exhaustively so this is just a brief assembly of points:

    The concept of only proportional retribution for crime goes back to antiquity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_for_an_eye )

    Christianity then went on to add a LOT of stuff about a balance between justice and mercy, both from God, but also from society and says that sinners are absolved of their sins and are accepted back into the community after they have repented and made amends.

    Some discussion here but too long to quote: https://www.usccb.org/resources/responsibility-rehabilitation-and-restoration-catholic-perspective-crime-and-criminal#scriptural

    Some discussion on the development of state monopoly on punishment is alluded to here (that’s just the abstract):
    https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780198785521.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780198785521-e-27

    There’s also a bunch on retributive justice including “who may punish” here: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/justice-retributive/#WhoMayPuni

    anyway, i’m guessing you won’t find any of this satisfactory, but a full presentation of concepts of crime and punishment in Western Civilization is well beyond my capability so i yield.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
  258. Hibernian says:
    @Hangnail Hans

    More specific doesn’t mean more intrusive, necessarily. There will be many people who read the article, but it would be relevant to know who accessed it multiple times and who continued to read it for a long time, along with other indicators such as who was associated with the ring being investigated, weapons and ammunition purchases, etc.

  259. Muggles says:
    @Dieter Kief

    This mentality arises together with woke-ism. The state as a priest – ego te absolvo.
    The fellow citizens of the evildoer coerced into the role of saints – puppets at the command of their betters with the deep-felt insights.

    Yes, this is the explicit religion of Statism. The State is God and state rulers are His Chosen.

    While this may seem simplistic, just watch how they act. Dems, Wokies, commies of very stripe and most Greens, who believe that their God Statism will somehow save them from inevitable destruction. As in the Green End Times. Or COVID, or whatever…

    Since few liberals and none of the rest of this bunch are of any actual normal religion, Statism fills the need for Divine Authority. Of course they all claim that is false, but look at what they do and not what they say.

    I am not religious myself. But in my libertarian endeavors I learned that the most reliable and honest opponents of statism are the religious believers. Not mush headed New Agers or liberal “Protestant” types, for whom their clerical garb merely disguises their worship of State Power.

    Say what you will here about whites, but the most consistent anti statist races are black and brown, with some yellow mixed in nowadays. They are more fundamentally religious in the original sense and hence, less vulnerable to the False God of Statism. This is why the White Left does little but blame whites for “systemic racism.” They hope that is enough to deceive the political POC groups into thinking that whites are evil and must be punished.

    With the new Marxist Pope, even the Catholics are faltering on this heresy. Actual religions no longer rely on performing miracles to attract believers. The Religion of Statism does nothing but promise miracles to believers. And sometimes will send a small “stimulus check” just to prove their omnipotence. Pennies for suckers, Now all bow down…

  260. 3g4me says:
    @vhrm

    @245 vhrm: Some of us have fairly good memories, and recognize people’s pseudonyms, or personal information they’ve shared about themselves when they’ve posted comments elsewhere. As far as your numbers and percentages, that’s a Sailer-special that I choose not to utilize – particularly as I regard all demographic information (particularly from a leftist site like Wikipedia) as highly suspect. The exact numbers are irrelevant; even one subcon in the former US is too many.

    • Replies: @vhrm
  261. AndrewR says:
    @Moses

    Who enables God’s Chosen People? You know as well as I do that Jews only are able to do what they do due to the cowardice of white goyim. I’ve spent years trying to educate goyim about the tribe, and I’ve gotten very little except hatred in return. Sorry but I simply do not care anymore about saving the white race. This doesn’t mean I would show any mercy to our demonic elites.

  262. vhrm says:
    @3g4me

    I see. Well, my memory isn’t what it once was, but i don’t think i’ve posted under this handle much elsewhere let alone adopted a subcontinental persona.

  263. @Muggles

    Yep, wokism leans heavily towards stateism – even rather radical wokes.
    It has to do with real-world incentives, of course. The state is mighty in modern times and can hand out all kinds of goodies.
    This induces – big style illusions – on both sides of the pact. And these are corrosive: Wokism has no good understanding of what it means to run a decent state and the state is inclined to give in to the concrete ideas not least about the state, wokism produces.
    I don’t quite see, where the believers fit in that you talk about. To the big surprise of the Democrats, much more of them than could have expected voted for Trump. so that is one real-world outcome I’d link to your observation. Other than that – what might come out of it?

    Liberals like you might (have to?) learn a lesson here too: namely that secularisation is risky and a process that can quite easily go off the rails. – That’s the Chesterton-junction of modernity, we’re all standing at here: Getting rid of religion does not necessarily imply the triumph of reason.

    There are quite a few liberals who did this stuff in a way. – Unfortunately, lots of them are outside of the Christian establishment. – To mane but a few: Jordan B. Peterson, Joe Rogan, Jürgen Habermas, Brett Weinstein, Michel Houllebecq.
    They all are conquering a territory (Map and Territory / Michel Houellebecq) that is layed out between Buddha, Lao Tze, Sokrates (Plato Aristoteles), and Jesus*****, Heinrich Seuse, Michel Eyquem de Montaigne, Ernst Bloch, Bob Dylan here and  Erich Fromm and Georg Luács (he coined the term metaphysical rooflessness within Marxism)  and Ernst Böckenförde (important postwar german juridical theorist) there.
    Douglas Murray The Madness of the Crowds, The Strange Death of Europe)  does get quite a bit of this field of problems too.
    For me from was the most important one, because he – pretty much on his own – discovered that secularisation and societal reform on mere Marxist and or rational foundations alone would not do. Ironically he discovered this while thinking about a (- The even) Hippy-theme per se: Love. I’d hold that he knew from his intimate interactions in psychoanalysis, that there is no love without a transcendental streak to it. No fulfilling love that is. – From there follows quite a lot.

    *****cf. Swiss-Germaan philosopher’s great insight about the Achsenzeit

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_Age

    Karls Jaspers wrote in his book The Origin and the Goal of History (1949) that between 800 and 300 before Christ a moral revolution took place, that would shape the world from than on: Karl Jaspers: “The spiritual foundations of humanity were laid simultaneously and independently in China, India, Persia, Judea, and Greece. And these are the foundations upon which humanity still subsists today”. (cf. Scottish philosopher Jon Stuart Stuart-Glennie’s idea of a “moral revolution” he wrote about in 1873).

    Jürgen Habermas made all this rather explicit in his heavy double-tome “This Too a History of Philosophy” (2019).

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  264. @Dieter Kief

    corrected copy

    Yep, wokism leans heavily towards stateism – even rather radical wokes.
    It has to do with real-world incentives, of course. The state is mighty in modern times and can hand out all kinds of goodies.
    This induces – big style illusions – on both sides of the pact. And these are corrosive: Wokism has no good understanding of what it means to run a decent state and the state is inclined to give in to the concrete ideas not least about the state, wokism produces.
    I don’t quite see, where the believers fit in that you talk about. To the big surprise of the Democrats, much more of them than could have expected voted for Trump. so that is one real-world outcome I’d link to your observation. Other than that – what might come out of it?

    Liberals like you might (have to?) learn a lesson here too: Namely, that secularisation is risky and a process that can quite easily go off the rails. – That’s the Chesterton-junction of modernity, we’re all standing at here: Getting rid of religion does not necessarily imply the triumph of reason.

    There are quite a few liberals who understood this stuff in a way. – Unfortunately, lots of them are outside of the Christian establishment. – To name but a few: Jordan B. Peterson, Joe Rogan, Jürgen Habermas, Brett Weinstein, Michel Houllebecq.

    They all are conquering a territory (Map and Territory / Michel Houellebecq) that is stretched out between Buddha, Lao Tze, Sokrates (Plato Aristoteles), and Jesus*****, Heinrich Seuse, Michel Eyquem de Montaigne, Ernst Bloch, Bob Dylan here and Erich Fromm and Georg Luács (he coined the term metaphysical rooflessness within Marxism) and Ernst Böckenförde (important postwar german juridical theorist) there.
    Douglas Murray The Madness of the Crowds, The Strange Death of Europe) does get quite a bit of this field of problems too.
    For me Erich Fromm was the most important one, because he – following Jaspers – discovered that secularisation and societal reform on mere Marxist and or rational foundations alone would not do. Ironically he discovered this while thinking about the big Hippie-theme per se: Love. I’d hold that he knew from his intimate interactions in psychoanalysis, that there is no love without a transcendental streak to it. No fulfilling love that is. – From there follows quite a lot.

    *****cf. Swiss-Germaan philosopher’s great insight about the Achsenzeit

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_Age

    Karls Jaspers wrote in his book The Origin and the Goal of History (1949) that between 800 and 300 before Christ a moral revolution took place, that would shape the world from then on: Karl Jaspers wrote: “The spiritual foundations of humanity were laid simultaneously and independently in China, India, Persia, Judea, and Greece. And these are the foundations upon which humanity still subsists today”. (cf. Scottish folkist and philosopher Jon Stuart Stuart-Glennie’s idea of a “moral revolution” he wrote about in 1873).

    Jürgen Habermas made all this rather explicit in his heavy double-tome “This Too a History of Philosophy” (2019).

  265. @Muggles

    corrected copy

    Yep, wokism leans heavily towards stateism – even rather radical wokes.
    It has to do with real-world incentives, of course. The state is mighty in modern times and can hand out all kinds of goodies.
    This induces – big style illusions – on both sides of the pact. And these are corrosive: Wokism has no good understanding of what it means to run a decent state and the state is inclined to give in to the concrete ideas not least about the state, wokism produces.
    I don’t quite see, where the believers fit in that you talk about. To the big surprise of the Democrats, much more of them than could have expected voted for Trump. so that is one real-world outcome I’d link to your observation. Other than that – what might come out of it?

    Liberals like you might (have to?) learn a lesson here too: Namely, that secularisation is risky and a process that can quite easily go off the rails. – That’s the Chesterton-junction of modernity, we’re all standing at here: Getting rid of religion does not necessarily imply the triumph of reason.

    There are quite a few liberals who understood this stuff in a way. – Unfortunately, lots of them are outside of the Christian establishment. – To name but a few: Jordan B. Peterson, Joe Rogan, Jürgen Habermas, Brett Weinstein, Michel Houllebecq.

    They all are conquering a territory (Map and Territory / Michel Houellebecq) that is stretched out between Buddha, Lao Tze, Sokrates (Plato Aristoteles), and Jesus*****, Heinrich Seuse, Michel Eyquem de Montaigne, Ernst Bloch, Bob Dylan here and Erich Fromm and Georg Luács (he coined the term metaphysical rooflessness within Marxism) and Ernst Böckenförde (important postwar german juridical theorist) there.
    Douglas Murray The Madness of the Crowds, The Strange Death of Europe) does get quite a bit of this field of problems too.
    For me Erich Fromm was the most important one, because he – following Jaspers – discovered that secularisation and societal reform on mere Marxist and or rational foundations alone would not do. Ironically he discovered this while thinking about the big Hippie-theme per se: Love. I’d hold that he knew from his intimate interactions in psychoanalysis, that there is no love without a transcendental streak to it. No fulfilling love that is. – From there follows quite a lot.

    *****cf. Swiss-Germaan philosopher’s great insight about the Achsenzeit

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_Age

    Karl Jaspers wrote in his book The Origin and the Goal of History (1949) that between 800 and 300 before Christ a moral revolution took place, that would shape the world from then on: Karl Jaspers wrote: “The spiritual foundations of humanity were laid simultaneously and independently in China, India, Persia, Judea, and Greece. And these are the foundations upon which humanity still subsists today”. (cf. Scottish folkist and philosopher Jon Stuart Stuart-Glennie’s idea of a “moral revolution” he wrote about in 1873).

    Jürgen Habermas made all this rather explicit in his heavy double-tome “This Too a History of Philosophy” (2019).

    • Replies: @anon
  266. @Muggles

    In case Muggles – please read my comment No. 257 – not the a bit murkily spelled No. 255. Thanks.

  267. AceDeuce says:
    @ScarletNumber

    What’s your point? Everybody has to “live somewhere”.

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
  268. Jay Fink says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    I know you were being sarcastic but I sincerely like your last paragraph about isolating felons in remote locations. A relatively small % of people commit all the serious crime. They are repeat offenders. Joe Biden once correctly called them superpredators. Isolating them forever so we don’t have to deal with them ever again is far superior to releasing them back in our communities.

    • Agree: gandydancer
    • Replies: @Sick 'n Tired
  269. @Jay Fink

    Let them take their offspring and relatives with them, so you don’t break the families up.

  270. @Anonymous

    Because lying (especially under interrogation) is a much more cognitively demanding activity than telling the truth. Pupil dilation seems to be a sign of mental focus, concentration, short term memory and other mental attribues associated with intelligence.

  271. res says:
    @Alden

    In no category in Table 2 at my link did ALL minorities exceed 61.2% and the overall number was 52.5%.

    I don’t doubt that blacks are hugely over-represented in some areas. Though I would really like to see numbers. The issue is (as you mention) that it is a big country and much of the country has a black population smaller than 13% (just as some parts are much higher).

    An interesting comparison is CDC (headquartered in Atlanta) employment (32.4% black in 2018).
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/they-should-run-psas-encouraging-people-to-call-911-if-they-are-having-a-heart-attack-or-stroke/#comment-3847553

  272. anon[945] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief

    Jordan Peterson? Joe Rogan?

    smh.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  273. Seaxnēat says:

    Haven’t read all the comments, and so this had probably already been pointed out….

    This will just lead to landlord refusing to rent to any Black people. If you can’t make nuanced judgements of people, you are force to make broad sweeping judgements.

    Shocking how many well-intentioned social interventions backfire.

  274. @Alden

    Big Government is one, big, welfare (jobs) program.

    For a welfare recipient, mandatory retirement (and PERS checks and retiree healthcare benefits) should kick-in the moment he accumulates 85 points.

  275. @Anonymous

    Trump did the eviction moratorium

    Wrong, Tonto. The CDC did it and a judge just slapped it down saying the CDC did not have the authority.

    Of course when BHO oversaw GM’s bankruptcy that rewarded the unions, screwed the bondholders and closed hundreds of dealerships, well then, that’s different.

  276. ATBOTL says:

    A small town in southern New Jersey, Salem City, hit a murder rate of at least 229 per 100,000 in 2020. The rate could be higher if there were more murders in between when these two articles were written:

    https://www.nj.com/salem/2020/11/task-force-targets-nj-countys-unprecedented-crime-problem-in-2-tiny-towns.html

    https://6abc.com/king-fried-chicken-salem-killing-employee-killed-police/9223400/#:~:text=Police%20have%20made%20an%20arrest%20in%20the%20murder,restaurant%20employee%20after%20receiving%20tips%20from%20the%20community.

    That could be a new record. It beats the notorious East Paolo Alto, California record.

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-01-05-me-833-story.html

    Over 200 murders per 100,000 population is rarified territory. The only other city I can remember that reached this level was Caracas, Venezuela years ago. IIRC, Caracas barely broke 200. 229 may be a new world record.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
  277. ATBOTL says:
    @Abolish_public_education

    A big reason why the private sector cannot seem to provide “good jobs” is because of too much government.

    The main reasons for the lack of good jobs, which are real things not needing to be sneer quoted, are globalist trade and immigration policies. We need a government that imposes restrictions on imported manufactured goods and strong immigration controls to bring the good jobs back.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
  278. @anon

    Jordan B. Peterson and Joe Rogan do tackle the field of transcendence on a regular basis.
    Peterson had been invited for a stay at Cambridge to work with theologists on metaphysics and questions concerning religion – but the administration denied him access…

    Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson share a profound interest in psychedelics too. Asked a few years ago what he thinks would be the biggest science gap in psychology today he said: The neglect of psychedelics.
     
    Best book I’ve read on this topic in the last few years: T. C. Boyles very insightful, funny, and precise LSD-novel about Alber Hofmann (Sandoz/Basel/) Timothy Leary,  and his gang: Outside Looking In.
    (One of the books that I’d say will be read in hundred years too).
     
    One caveat: Boyle missed out on the fact, that Albert Hofmann was very close to one of the most famous European foot-soldiers of the 20th century: Writer and entomologist Ernst Jünger (severely wounded numerous times at the front in WW I – highly decorated, therefore).

    Jünger did write up until his death in his 103rd year in 1998 and went on a number of trips together with Albert Hofmann. He was the most important intellectual in Albert Hofmann’s life. And even though he was a very conservative man, he has taken all kinds of drugs and even written a monograph about his experiences:  “Annäherungen – Drogen und Rausch” (Approaches – Drugs and Being High – 1970! – as so many important books not translated into the English language).

    So – Boyle missed out on this one – but that is just a caveat. His LSD novel is great nonetheless!

    • Replies: @anon
    , @vhrm
  279. @The Wild Geese Howard

    Isn’t it kind of known that almost all shrinks are headcases that enter the field to solve their own issues?

    My ex-wife was an administrator at the UCxx Psych dept, and she told me exactly that. And the shenanigans she had to deal with supported that, too.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  280. @Corvinus

    What you are seemingly advocating for is for absolute rights, which is not part of our social contract.

    Again with this “social contract” bullsh!t. I have entered into no “social contract” with the gubment to let tegislating vermin or even an actual majority of the sheeple decide what I can consider when deciding whether to rent out property. When legislating vermin pass laws that exceed their remit and pass laws that are unjust those laws should be evaded and refused and ignored and excoriated to the greatest possible extent. I am not property of the State and owe it nothing else.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  281. @Jonathan Mason

    What was most disgraceful was that the Senate allowed this charade to take place at all. How will you get anybody to accept any kind of public service position if this is how the job interview proceeds with applicants being publicly smeared?

    This is not a real problem. Getting a better someone to take the jobs Kavanaugh got from the State is not remotely difficult. And calling what he’s done a “public service” is a howler that you emit twice, to my derision.

  282. Art Deco says:
    @Alden

    About 18% of the federal workforce is black. You’re seeing what you want to see.

    • LOL: Truth
    • Replies: @res
  283. anon[446] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief

    Jordan B. Peterson and Joe Rogan do tackle the field of transcendence on a regular basis.

    Jordan B. Peterson is a chronic meth user, although his stay at a Russian hospital may have gotten him over that. If “chronic meth user” is an aspect of “transcendence” in your opinion, I can easily introduce you to a fair number of transcendentalists. Some of them can be found underneath the freeway, others are in a scrubby field behind the local truck stop. It is a mystery to me how otherwise at least midwitted people can be fooled by Peterson’s vocabulary and bafflegarb.

    The main thing Dr. “clean your room” has going for him IMO is he doesn’t treat young men with utter contempt, unlike many other Western spiritual types. But Peterson is mentally unstable, and clothing his instability in words, words, words, words, words, words plus chinstroking does not effectively hide the instability. It’s hazardous to follow the unstable too far. History, even recent history, shows this.

    Rogan is an entertainer. That’s what he does.

    To be word-drunk is not really all that good of a state of mind. Adding meth doesn’t improve it.

    My local taverns are re opened, if I go to one of them around closing time shall I find transcendence, or drunks? There are no transcendent drunks, btw.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @Art Deco
  284. @Achilleus

    Violent criminals should be hanged.

    You mean, like Derek Chauvin?

    It’s a real problen that anything the State does it will do badly.

  285. vhrm says:
    @Dieter Kief

    Of late i’ve run into Sam Harris’ “WakingUp” app. He’s an atheist rationalist anti-religion guy but he’s pro psychadelics and meditation.
    He’s also pretty far left in some ways (redistribution and rehabilitation vs punishment), and hated Trump and Trumpism with a passion, but also very anti-woke in the way any honest rational person would be.
    He’s honestly talked to Charles Murray, for example https://samharris.org/podcasts/forbidden-knowledge/

    (note he’s NOT Dan Harris a news guy who got into meditation too with “10% Happier” book/app/podcast).

    His intro to his spirituality / psychedelics book
    https://samharris.org/podcasts/chapter-one/

  286. On Thursday, New Jersey lawmakers approved a landmark bill that bars landlords from asking about criminal convictions on housing applications…

    Landlords, for example, may consider first-degree crimes for six years after release from prison when deciding on applicants. But fourth-degree crimes may only be used as a factor for either a year after a person’s release from custody or, if they are not sentenced to jail or prison time, the date of conviction.

    So, you have some discretion, but can’t ask directly, and have to hire a P.I.?

  287. @anon

    You sound a little bit knowing (=no absolute beginner) here and – a little bit too harsh on the wordy side of Jordan B. Peterson there.
    He said/wrote a lot of good things in that wordy realm in the last few years.

    If I had to sum it up: He is a firm believer and public defender of the Bell Curve. He understood and forcefully (and a bit enthusiastically at times too, that’s true) applies sound and big (influential) sociobiological and economic ideas into his books and talks (cf. his popularisation of the lobster and testosterone and of the Pareto principle).
    I do agree with you though that he has a tendency to – here and there – go over the top, which is no good thing. He recently explained that yes, maybe, hospitals had done more harm than good overall – a deeply depressed man (he says it takes him hours in the morning to be able TO TAKE A SHOWER – – – day in day out) could make such mistakes, alright; but if you make such mistakes in public, and are honest to yourself and the people you are talking to, you might – sigh! – get in a deep depression quite easily. – Life is hard – for depressed people too…
    Had he been dependent on Meth and overcome it in Russia and Serbia – would that not (have to, even) come out?

    There is a deep connection between alcohol and transcendence too. Since I (literally) grew up in a pub, I know this one inside out and nevertheless agree with your observation – and your reservations here.

    Just who was it – a well-respected economist, who made a ranking of the most influential US-intellectuals and Joe Rogan – was at the top of this list – amongst the first five definitely.I can see that. It’s true though – he is an entertainer. Such are our modern times…

    • Replies: @anon
  288. Art Deco says:
    @gandydancer

    My ex-wife was an administrator at the UCxx Psych dept, and she told me exactly that. And the shenanigans she had to deal with supported that, too.

    Academic psychologists don’t typically have clinician’s licenses or train clinicians. The faculty I’m most familiar with had precisely one professor whose research was devoted to abnormal psychology, and I don’t believe she had a license to practice. Psych majors could choose one of three specialties – experimental psych, neuroscience, or social / cross-cultural / personality studies.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
  289. Art Deco says:
    @anon

    Jordan B. Peterson is a chronic meth user,

    He wasn’t and isn’t.

    • Replies: @anon
  290. res says:
    @Art Deco

    About 18% of the federal workforce is black. You’re seeing what you want to see.

    Might want to be careful about assuming that is uniform. Note my links above indicating SSA is 29.3% black and CDC is 32.4% black.

    Which does raise the question of which organizations have the counterbalancing representations? Any thoughts?

    • Replies: @Truth
  291. anon[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco

    Peterson claims to have gone 25 days without sleep.

  292. anon[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief

    Had he been dependent on Meth and overcome it in Russia and Serbia – would that not (have to, even) come out?

    He claimed to have gone 25 days without sleep. Probably the claim is false.

    However, Peterson was prescribed
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine
    after his wife was diagnosed with cancer and he became habituated to that drug.

    This problem was not a secret last year. A quick search revealed mainstream articles such as these:

    https://newrepublic.com/article/156829/happened-jordan-peterson

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/jordan-peterson-drug-addiction-benzo-valium-xanex-russia-mikhaila-a9324871.html

    https://nypost.com/2021/01/31/jordan-peterson-says-he-was-suicidal-addicted-to-benzos/

    Peterson is not a mentally stable person.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @Dissident
  293. @anon

    Yes, benzodiazepines. Not meth.

  294. Truth says:
    @res

    About 18% of the federal workforce is black.

    Note my links above indicating SSA is 29.3% black and CDC is 32.4% black.

    Which does raise the question of which organizations have the counterbalancing representations? Any thoughts?

    Obviously… most of them.

    • Replies: @res
  295. @Alden

    Whatever the original intent of the law was, the true meaning of the law was decided in Griggs vs Duke Power 1971.

    The words “true meaning of the law” don’t, to me, mean the same thing as the “distorted interpretation of the law, as currently applied”, and I suggest you eschew the former if you mean the latter.

  296. Corvinus says:
    @gandydancer

    “Again with this “social contract” bullsh!t.”

    Enlightenment philosophy, which is the foundation of our government and Western Civilization.

    “I have entered into no “social contract” with the gubment to let tegislating vermin or even an actual majority of the sheeple decide what I can consider when deciding whether to rent out property.”

    To the contrary, as a citizen of the United States, you have agreed to this arrangement. We the People make the laws through majority rules. Seek redress of grievances.

    “When legislating vermin pass laws that exceed their remit and pass laws that are unjust those laws should be evaded and refused and ignored and excoriated to the greatest possible extent.”

    Feel free to exercise that liberty, but realize there are consequences for one’s actions.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
  297. @Art Deco

    UCxx is not an ordinary academic campus. Let me leave it at that, since my ex is not a party to this conversation and I do not feel free to divulge what she told me, though she is long-retired. I am familiar with the difference between MD and PhD, and there were both types employed, iirc. Definately MDs. Anyway, most of the shenanigans by the profs were financial, but some involved untoward involvement with patients. And exploiting, etc., post-Docs. Crazy people do crazy things, including violence. Occasionally it hit the papers or even the criminal justice system.

  298. @Corvinus

    To the contrary, as a citizen of the United States, you have agreed to this arrangement.

    No, I have not.

    In order to agree to any sort of contract there must be a meeting of minds. The fuzzy grasp by those of your ilk of what it is that I might have agreed to was previously demonstrated on this page. I wrote above, to vhrm, “If it’s ‘explicit’ you ought to be able to quote it. Please do.” He has not not because he cannot.

    All claims for such supposed “social contracts” are null and void for vagueness, failure to provide notice of their terms, and, under all actual circumstances, failure of performance. Any “Enlightenment philosophy” to the contrary is just propaganda.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  299. Dissident says:
    @anon

    [Jordan B.] Peterson is not a mentally stable person.

    Mental stability can be considered relative, and measured on a continuum, can it not?

    If one suffers a lack or deficit of mental stability, does it automatically and necessarily mean that he can have no valid perspectives, thoughts or insights to offer that are of value? Are the two mutually exclusive?

    Is Jordan B. Peterson be the best candidate for someone to leave an individual struggling with substance-abuse or suicidal thoughts in the total or exclusive care of? Likely not. Can one gain from JBP’s lectures and books? In many cases, yes. Consider people within their proper genre, and within the given, relevant context that applies.

    • Agree: gandydancer
    • Replies: @anon
  300. Corvinus says:
    @gandydancer

    “In order to agree to any sort of contract there must be a meeting of minds.”

    Right. As I correctly stated, your citizenship in our country solidifies the agreement. That’s how it works.

    “All claims for such supposed “social contracts” are null and void for vagueness”

    The Constitution, as well as the principles as expressed by the Federalists are explicitly clear. You’re just being patently obtuse.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
  301. res says:
    @Truth

    Obviously… most of them.

    Not necessarily. Which is why the question is interesting.

    The USPS was 23% black in 2018.
    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/05/14/the-state-of-the-u-s-postal-service-in-8-charts/

    That page has some interesting graphics showing how USPS demographics compare to population demographics in each state. DC, Delaware, and Maryland are outliers for having a postal service which is relatively black compared to the population.

    Table 3 of this report
    https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43590.pdf
    has coarse information on total federal employment by branch circa 2019-2021. The Executive Branch (includes military) employs a little over 4 million people (includes USPS 580k and military 1.4 million).

    This page gives detailed executive branch demographic data for 2006-2017 which makes for a good baseline for comparison.
    https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/data-analysis-documentation/federal-employment-reports/reports-publications/executive-branch-employment-by-gender-and-racenational-origin/

    This page indicates that in 2017 the active duty military was only 16% black.
    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/09/10/the-changing-profile-of-the-u-s-military/
    That surprises me, but the 6% other or unknown might be a factor there.

    So it looks like the military is part of counterbalancing the demographics.

    Beyond that, I am having trouble finding data on specific agencies. If anyone has data like that please post.

  302. anon[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dissident

    Peterson is offering advice to people regarding how to manage their lives. It is not unreasonable to examine his life in that context. Is his room clean? Eh, maybe not.

    He is to some degree offering a form of stoicism. Viktor Frankl did that in the previous century and did a better job of it in Man’s Search for Meaning.

    I respect Peterson for not trashing young men, but that doesn’t mean I buy into the cultishness surrounding him.

    • Replies: @Dissident
  303. Dissident says:
    @anon

    Thank you for replying. Your points are well-taken.

    Just from listening to Peterson’s and his daughter’s accounts of his ordeals alone, it becomes rather clear that something is quite wrong with the whole situation.

    [MORE]
    That daughter– both how she presents and comports herself, as well as the way in which she manages her father; that abjectly unsound, quackish caveman diet alone; the mere fact of them traveling to somewhere so far off and not exactly known as a leading center of medical excellence– when any number of just those were available so much closer to them (practically “in their backyard”, relatively speaking); the list goes on. No, mental stability and the image of a well-adjusted, functional, responsible adult are not what emerges– neither for JBP nor for his daughter.

    Still, should JBP be completely dismissed and discredited? Should we categorically warn people against reading or listening to him at all, and discourage them from doing so? While not certain, I am inclined toward thinking that a more nuanced, qualified approach would be in order.

    I respect Peterson for not trashing young men, but that doesn’t mean I buy into the cultishness surrounding him.

    “Cultishness” should always give one pause. At least some aspect or degree of cult-likeness would seem endemic to both the entire self-help genre, as well as to the pundit genre.

    How would I advise someone who admired and looked-up to a figure such as JBP as a mentor and exemplar? At a minimum, to exercise a healthy degree of skepticism. To remember, always, that no mortal is infallible or above reproach. To always be on guard against the kind of illusionment [sic; perhaps not a word] (with anyone or anything) that can lead to eventual disillusionment; to specifically point-out some of JBP’s more glaring flaws. For one inclined to donate money to a figure such as JBP, I might counsel that there are countless causes that are almost certainly more worthy of such largess.

    If, on the other hand, it would appear that the caveats and qualifications enumerated above would be insufficient to prevent a given individual from being at considerable, imminent risk from continuing to listen to or read JBP or a similar figure at all, I might very well attempt to steer said hypothetical individual away from said influential figure entirely. And, perhaps needless to say, even if a less extreme or clear case, if I knew of someone else to offer as a preferable yet realistic alternative, and had an opening to do so, I probably would.

  304. @ScarletNumber

    The point is that as long as they are alive and out of prison, they have to live somewhere.

    Somebody on this thread has already answered that question. They can live in camps in trackless alaska under the supervision of Nazi lesbians.

    Or I’m ok with letting them voluntarily check themselves into prisons where they are worked for room and board, just to put a stop to claims that they are forced to starve or commit crimes.

  305. @vhrm

    There’s a lot of widely published crap, but I’m not obliged to assent to any of it. Even if the crap has reached the status of “idiom”.

    “Proportional retribution for crime” has nothing to do with this. Not renting to criminals is, among other things, self-protection I am entitled to engage in, not punishment.

    … sinners are absolved of their sins and are accepted back into the community after they have repented and made amends.

    That someone is out of prison indicates neither repentance nor amends having been made.

    I am anyway not a Christian, or religious in any way, so I’m not to the slightest degree interested in any of that.

    I will note that you’ve appartently also given up on supplying anything “explicit”, though without explicitly admitting the error of your assertion.

    • Replies: @vhrm
  306. @ATBOTL

    That could be a new record. It beats the notorious East Paolo Alto, California record.

    I remember that claim im the SF Chronicle. back in 1992. But it was bogus, based on an apples-to-oranges comparison of EPA to much larger and more varied areas actually included in FBI statistics.

  307. @ATBOTL

    “Good jobs” fully deserve the scare quotes, given how the term is misused. The idea that the State should subsidize some people’s income at the expense of others by artificially elevating the cost of imports is of a piece with attempts to impose the excess costs (and not just in money) of housing criminals on landlords, or Obama’s imposing the costs of unfunded auto worker pensions on bondholders in defiance of both law and justice, as already mentioned in this thread.

  308. @Corvinus

    As I correctly stated, your citizenship in our country solidifies the agreement. That’s how it works.

    Such utter nonsense does not work on me.

    I have given you some of the actual reasons why the “contract” metaphor is ridiculous. In response you merely repeat the debunked claim and make further idiotic appeals to bogus authority. You are pathetic.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  309. Corvinus says:
    @gandydancer

    “Such utter nonsense does not work on me.”

    That is your liberty to not recognize it, but the fact remains the social contract applies to you.

    “I have given you some of the actual reasons why the “contract” metaphor is ridiculous.”

    Your opinion, yes.

    “In response you merely repeat the debunked claim and make further idiotic appeals to bogus authority. You are pathetic.”

    No, I offered a cogent rebuttal based on historical events and constitutional principles. You simply disagree, which again, is fine, but not based on observable reality.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
  310. @Corvinus

    It’s the imagined cogency of your “rebuttal” that has no basis in observed reality.

    The “fact” that the alleged but strangely undefined “social contract” “applies” to me remains only a repeated bald assertion on your part.

    That there is no such “contract” is an evidence-based fact that I have poined out and that you have not rebutted at all.

    Further, I have participated in no “historical event” which would bind me to it, and there is no valid “constitutional principle” behind any claim that I am bound to one.

    The Government has guns and force and can use them on me without my consent, and that is all there is to it.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  311. Corvinus says:
    @gandydancer

    The fact of the matter, one that is patently obvious, is that American citizens have a social contract with the government that involves an exchange of services. You have given your consent as a result of your citizenship to our nation. The state provides security and the guarantee that civil liberty will be protected. In turn, the citizen recognizes they are to abide by the laws of the land through representation. Like other contracts, withdrawing comes with penalties – so citizens who decide to stop paying taxes may still be subject to consequences. Now, if you do not agree with said laws, you have the freedom to form a different social contract and create a different government.

    • Replies: @gandydancer
  312. vhrm says:
    @gandydancer

    I’ve given up because i don’t believe you understand what the “social contract” is/means.

    Your view that you can do whatever you want because you didn’t explicitly sign a document with “society” or “the government” is actually something that’s been part of the conversation on the topic over the past few hundred years.

    For example here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract#Contracts_must_be_consensual

    A reasonably quick overview of the broader theory is further up the page:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract#Philosophers

    I brought up the Christian stuff because the western world, and thus our basic social contract, is based on a Christian foundation to a large degree, and more specifically the conversation that you jumped in on was that in enforcing this forgiveness the government was taking over the proper role of the church.

    In any case, your argument as i understand it has nothing to do specifically with whether you have to forgive criminals once they’re released; it could be applied to every law at every level or any social norm.

    Have you ever explicitly agreed not to take other people’s stuff? not to kill them? Unless you’ve taken an oath of office of some sort about supporting the Constitution then i’m guessing you probably haven’t.

    • Agree: Dissident
    • Replies: @gandydancer
  313. @Corvinus

    You have given your consent as a result of your citizenship to our nation.

    No, I haven’t. That’s what’s actually “patently obvious”. You can’t point to the occasion on which I formed this contract because it never happened.

    Like other contracts, withdrawing comes with penalties…

    Unlike actual contracts, you are “penalized” for “withdrawing” from a contract which you never entered into.

    …if you do not agree with said laws, you have the freedom to form a different social contract and create a different government.

    If the fact that you are full of nonsense weren’t otherwise obvious, the experience of the CSA would clearly say otherwise. Your misuse of the word “free” is as absurd as your misuse of the word “contract”.

  314. @vhrm

    i don’t believe you understand what the “social contract” is/means.

    My understanding of what a contract is is the same as expressed by Lysander Spooner at your link. His understanding was right then and mine is right now.

    The reasons that I am not internally free to kill people or take their stuff has nothing to do with any imaginary “contract”. I do not need, nor do I take, instruction from the State to know right from wrong.

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